# Vegans! What do you think of them?



## VeganMe

I recently became vegan (for ethical reasons) and realized that it's much easier than I previously anticipated it would be.  So that puts a smile on my face. I'm wondering what those who post here think of veganism.

And, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask!


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## Toro

I <3 steak.


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## chanel

Both of my children are vegetarians, and son #2 tried veganism for about two weeks.  He didn't like it.  He gets most of his protein from fish (we live at the shore) and eggs.  Frankly, I'm glad it didn't work out. He's way too thin already.


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## Valerie

Whenever my veggie friends come to the BBQ I always have a tofu burger on hand, like a good friend should...


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## rightwinger

"If God did not want you to eat meat......he wouldn't have made it taste so good"


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## VeganMe

Valerie said:


> Whenever my veggie friends come to the BBQ I always have a tofu burger on hand, like a good friend should...



That's nice of you!


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## 9thIDdoc

I've got better things to do than fret about what someone else eats.


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## Si modo

VeganMe said:


> I recently became vegan (for ethical reasons) and realized that it's much easier than I previously anticipated it would be.  So that puts a smile on my face. I'm wondering what those who post here think of veganism.
> 
> And, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask!


Do you wear leather shoes?   Have leather car interior?  Have any leather products at all?


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## VeganMe

Nope, no leather for me.


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## California Girl

I think they are incredibly gullible people. But it is their right to be gullible and I absolutely support that right.


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## California Girl

VeganMe said:


> Nope, no leather for me.



So, why are you a vegan and why do you hate cows so much that you wish to see them disappear from the planet?


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## Si modo

VeganMe said:


> Nope, no leather for me.


Any plastic bags (many plasticizers derive their raw materials from animal products)?  Do you ride a bike (tires, same thing)?  Shampoo (many ingredients are derived from animal products)?  Conditioner (same thing)?  Toothpaste (same thing)?


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## Synthaholic

_*Vegans! What do you think of them?  *_


I don't.


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## VeganMe

@ California - I am a vegan because I don't want to support (with my dollar) the meat and dairy industries, which are known for treating their animals very cruelly and inhumanely. I also don't want anything to have to die for me to eat it. I can eat other things. 

@ Si Modo - I haven't heard of things like tires or plastic bags containing animal products. I'm still learning but that is not something I've heard before. As for things like toothpaste, shampoo and other similar items, they make vegan ones too. My new vegan hand soap actually smells great. The scent is so nice and it lingers on my hands after I've washed them for quite a while, which I like.


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## Synthaholic

California Girl said:


> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, no leather for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, why are you a vegan and why do you hate cows so much that you wish to see them disappear from the planet?
Click to expand...

Oh, is it straw man time already?


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## rightwinger

"If you don't eat your meat........you can't have any pudding"


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## Synthaholic

Republicans are totally bought and in the pockets of their donors:


*USDA retracts support of 'Meatless Monday' after GOP revolt*


07/26/12 09:27 AM ET 

The Department of Agriculture (USDA) retracted its endorsement of "Meatless Mondays" after GOP lawmakers blasted the move.

Republicans took to Twitter Wednesday to express their unhappiness with the USDA encouraging people to eat less meat.*I will eat more meat on Monday to compensate for stupid USDA recommendation abt a meatless Monday*
*&#8212; ChuckGrassley (@ChuckGrassley)* July 25, 2012​
*USDA  HQ meatless Mondays!!! At the Dept. Of Agriculture? Heresy! I'm not  grazing there. I will have double rib-eye Mondays instead.*
*&#8212; Steve King (@SteveKingIA)* July 25, 2012​
The  USDA lauded Meatless Monday in Monday's internal department newsletter  as "one simple way to reduce your environmental impact while dining at  our cafeterias."






The National Cattlemen's Beef Association and several members of  Congress representing some of the biggest meat-producing states were  quick to protest on Tuesday and Wednesday.



*"Who at USDA thought 'Meatless Mondays' was good idea? Anti-[agriculture] agenda at USDA is irresponsible, even for a day," **tweeted Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.).*​


What a bunch of fucking children!


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## Si modo

VeganMe said:


> @ California - I am a vegan because I don't want to support (with my dollar) the meat and dairy industries, which are known for treating their animals very cruelly and inhumanely. I also don't want anything to have to die for me to eat it. I can eat other things.
> 
> @ Si Modo - I haven't heard of things like tires or plastic bags containing animal products. I'm still learning but that is not something I've heard before. As for things like toothpaste, shampoo and other similar items, they make vegan ones too. My new vegan hand soap actually smells great. The scent is so nice and it lingers on my hands after I've washed them for quite a while, which I like.


That's great that you found such products.

You would be surprised at how many items in our everyday lives contain animal products.  If you want to devote all that time to avoid animal products, you will likely have to spend every waking hour making your own stuff, or spend extra for a specialty product.

Likely, those vitamin supplements contain animal products, too.

I think choosing the vegan lifestyle is fine for those who wish it, but if you expect to completely avoid animal products, your lifestyle may change a hell of a lot more than you may expect.  Strive for it, but really, give yourself a break on some things.

Of course, your choice.  It's just the reality of the situation.  Animal-derived products are ubiquitous.


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## Si modo

Synthaholic said:


> Republicans are totally bought and in the pockets of their donors:
> 
> 
> *USDA retracts support of 'Meatless Monday' after GOP revolt*
> 
> 
> 07/26/12 09:27 AM ET
> 
> The Department of Agriculture (USDA) retracted its endorsement of "Meatless Mondays" after GOP lawmakers blasted the move.
> 
> Republicans took to Twitter Wednesday to express their unhappiness with the USDA encouraging people to eat less meat.*I will eat more meat on Monday to compensate for stupid USDA recommendation abt a meatless Monday*
> * ChuckGrassley (@ChuckGrassley)* July 25, 2012​
> *USDA  HQ meatless Mondays!!! At the Dept. Of Agriculture? Heresy! I'm not  grazing there. I will have double rib-eye Mondays instead.*
> * Steve King (@SteveKingIA)* July 25, 2012​
> The  USDA lauded Meatless Monday in Monday's internal department newsletter  as "one simple way to reduce your environmental impact while dining at  our cafeterias."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The National Cattlemen's Beef Association and several members of  Congress representing some of the biggest meat-producing states were  quick to protest on Tuesday and Wednesday.
> 
> 
> 
> *"Who at USDA thought 'Meatless Mondays' was good idea? Anti-[agriculture] agenda at USDA is irresponsible, even for a day," **tweeted Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.).*​
> 
> 
> What a bunch of fucking children!


I don't find it childish at all.  Many find that our market system works much better with less interference by government.


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## VeganMe

^Nope. I buy vegan vitamins that list the ingredients. No animal products  For non-vegans it sounds daunting and time-consuming to try to live this way. I thought the same thing before I switched over. Which like I said, is why I'm really (pleasantly) surprised by how easy it is. Once you get the hang of it, it's like blinking (IMO).


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## Synthaholic

Si modo said:


> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> @ California - I am a vegan because I don't want to support (with my dollar) the meat and dairy industries, which are known for treating their animals very cruelly and inhumanely. I also don't want anything to have to die for me to eat it. I can eat other things.
> 
> @ Si Modo - I haven't heard of things like tires or plastic bags containing animal products. I'm still learning but that is not something I've heard before. As for things like toothpaste, shampoo and other similar items, they make vegan ones too. My new vegan hand soap actually smells great. The scent is so nice and it lingers on my hands after I've washed them for quite a while, which I like.
> 
> 
> 
> That's great that you found such products.
> 
> You would be surprised at how many items in our everyday lives contain animal products.  If you want to devote all that time to avoid animal products, you will likely have to spend every waking hour making your own stuff, or spend extra for a specialty product.
> 
> Likely, those vitamin supplements contain animal products, too.
> 
> I think choosing the vegan lifestyle is fine for those who wish it, but if you expect to completely avoid animal products, your lifestyle may change a hell of a lot more than you may expect.  Strive for it, but really, give yourself a break on some things.
> 
> Of course, your choice.  It's just the reality of the situation.  Animal-derived products are ubiquitous.
Click to expand...

If you believe in it strongly, every little bit helps.  Even if you don't go to extremes.

I know that I have cut back my pork consumption probably 90% after this HBO documentary.  I defy you to watch some of these and not have it have any effect on you, and make you re-think your supermarket choices.


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuSSf8oSDtw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pF68lEXyso&feature=player_embedded[/ame]


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## Si modo

VeganMe said:


> ^Nope. I buy vegan vitamins that list the ingredients. No animal products  For non-vegans it sounds daunting and time-consuming to try to live this way. I thought the same thing before I switched over. Which like I said, is why I'm really (pleasantly) surprised by how easy it is. Once you get the hang of it, it's like blinking (IMO).


As I said, you may be surprised.  I doubt that you have eliminated animal products from your life.

Don't go to the doctor or the ER, either.


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## Synthaholic

Si modo said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans are totally bought and in the pockets of their donors:
> 
> 
> *USDA retracts support of 'Meatless Monday' after GOP revolt*
> 
> 
> 07/26/12 09:27 AM ET
> 
> The Department of Agriculture (USDA) retracted its endorsement of "Meatless Mondays" after GOP lawmakers blasted the move.
> 
> Republicans took to Twitter Wednesday to express their unhappiness with the USDA encouraging people to eat less meat.*I will eat more meat on Monday to compensate for stupid USDA recommendation abt a meatless Monday*
> * ChuckGrassley (@ChuckGrassley)* July 25, 2012​
> *USDA  HQ meatless Mondays!!! At the Dept. Of Agriculture? Heresy! I'm not  grazing there. I will have double rib-eye Mondays instead.*
> * Steve King (@SteveKingIA)* July 25, 2012​
> The  USDA lauded Meatless Monday in Monday's internal department newsletter  as "one simple way to reduce your environmental impact while dining at  our cafeterias."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The National Cattlemen's Beef Association and several members of  Congress representing some of the biggest meat-producing states were  quick to protest on Tuesday and Wednesday.
> 
> 
> 
> *"Who at USDA thought 'Meatless Mondays' was good idea? Anti-[agriculture] agenda at USDA is irresponsible, even for a day," **tweeted Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.).*​
> 
> 
> What a bunch of fucking children!
> 
> 
> 
> I don't find it childish at all.  Many find that our market system works much better with less interference by government.
Click to expand...

Really?  "I'll eat MORE meat!!!"  Nyah, nyah, nyah!!!!

I find that extremely immature.  But that's me.


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## Si modo

Synthaholic said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans are totally bought and in the pockets of their donors:
> 
> 
> *USDA retracts support of 'Meatless Monday' after GOP revolt*
> 
> 
> 07/26/12 09:27 AM ET
> 
> The Department of Agriculture (USDA) retracted its endorsement of "Meatless Mondays" after GOP lawmakers blasted the move.
> 
> Republicans took to Twitter Wednesday to express their unhappiness with the USDA encouraging people to eat less meat.*I will eat more meat on Monday to compensate for stupid USDA recommendation abt a meatless Monday*
> *&#8212; ChuckGrassley (@ChuckGrassley)* July 25, 2012​
> *USDA  HQ meatless Mondays!!! At the Dept. Of Agriculture? Heresy! I'm not  grazing there. I will have double rib-eye Mondays instead.*
> *&#8212; Steve King (@SteveKingIA)* July 25, 2012​
> The  USDA lauded Meatless Monday in Monday's internal department newsletter  as "one simple way to reduce your environmental impact while dining at  our cafeterias."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The National Cattlemen's Beef Association and several members of  Congress representing some of the biggest meat-producing states were  quick to protest on Tuesday and Wednesday.
> 
> 
> 
> *"Who at USDA thought 'Meatless Mondays' was good idea? Anti-[agriculture] agenda at USDA is irresponsible, even for a day," **tweeted Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.).*​
> 
> 
> What a bunch of fucking children!
> 
> 
> 
> I don't find it childish at all.  Many find that our market system works much better with less interference by government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really?  "I'll eat MORE meat!!!"  Nyah, nyah, nyah!!!!
> 
> I find that extremely immature.  But that's me.
Click to expand...

Meh, some see what they want to see - confirmation bias is strong.


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## California Girl

VeganMe said:


> @ California - I am a vegan because I don't want to support (with my dollar) the meat and dairy industries, which are known for treating their animals very cruelly and inhumanely. I also don't want anything to have to die for me to eat it. I can eat other things.
> 
> @ Si Modo - I haven't heard of things like tires or plastic bags containing animal products. I'm still learning but that is not something I've heard before. As for things like toothpaste, shampoo and other similar items, they make vegan ones too. My new vegan hand soap actually smells great. The scent is so nice and it lingers on my hands after I've washed them for quite a while, which I like.



So you would prefer to drive the whole industry, even those who treat their animals well, out of existence? You prefer a world where cows are an 'endangered' species that you can only see in zoos? How strange.

I buy meat - but I only buy from ethical farming. This means I support good farming practice, and I also ensure that the cows at the farm at the end of my lane, live happy lives, and that the farm land stays as farm land instead of being sold off for development. Thanks, but no thanks to your way. Your way will lead to the destruction of animals that I love.


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## Synthaholic

Si modo said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't find it childish at all.  Many find that our market system works much better with less interference by government.
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  "I'll eat MORE meat!!!"  Nyah, nyah, nyah!!!!
> 
> I find that extremely immature.  But that's me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Meh, some see what they want to see - confirmation bias is strong.
Click to expand...

OK, how do you see it?  Do you really believe - or do you think they really believe - that them having two steaks or two cheeseburgers "restores the balance"?

C'mon, si.


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## Synthaholic

California Girl said:


> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> @ California - I am a vegan because I don't want to support (with my dollar) the meat and dairy industries, which are known for treating their animals very cruelly and inhumanely. I also don't want anything to have to die for me to eat it. I can eat other things.
> 
> @ Si Modo - I haven't heard of things like tires or plastic bags containing animal products. I'm still learning but that is not something I've heard before. As for things like toothpaste, shampoo and other similar items, they make vegan ones too. My new vegan hand soap actually smells great. The scent is so nice and it lingers on my hands after I've washed them for quite a while, which I like.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *So you would prefer to drive the whole industry, even those who treat their animals well, out of existence?* You prefer a world where cows are an 'endangered' species that you can only see in zoos? How strange.
> 
> I buy meat - but I only buy from ethical farming. This means I support good farming practice, and I also ensure that the cows at the farm at the end of my lane, live happy lives, and that the farm land stays as farm land instead of being sold off for development. Thanks, but no thanks to your way. Your way will lead to the destruction of animals that I love.
Click to expand...


Industries stay in business because they meet a need.  If enough people decide they no longer want to buy a product, that industry shrinks and sometimes disappears.

This is the free market that you so-called 'conservatives' claim to revere.

Until it's inconvenient.


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## VeganMe

California - I learned the hard way that many, many "ethical, local farms" who claim to treat animals well do not do so. Not saying all of them don't, but people tend to say what their consumers wish to hear. It is not always just factory farms who do this.

And I would rather cows become extinct instead of them being born to suffer immensely before an excruciating death. It has always bothered me that farm animals (many of them) only exist to be killed for consumption. They are a species with an expiration date, and awful living conditions. This saddens me.

It's easy to believe farmers when they say "happy cows come from California" and so on. But again, they just tell you what you want to hear. Factory farms especially (among others) are interested mainly in profit. It's cheaper to treat animals like crap and kill them in ways you can't imagine (long, slowly, painfully). Sadly their welfare is less important to them than a quick buck.


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## Si modo

Synthaholic said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  "I'll eat MORE meat!!!"  Nyah, nyah, nyah!!!!
> 
> I find that extremely immature.  But that's me.
> 
> 
> 
> Meh, some see what they want to see - confirmation bias is strong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, how do you see it?  Do you really believe - or do you think they really believe - that them having two steaks or two cheeseburgers "restores the balance"?
> 
> C'mon, si.
Click to expand...

I thought I already said what I see - many politicians believe that the least government influence as possible on the market is the best course of action, for many reasons.  So, when there IS interference, they make a point, and lo and behold, the USDA drops the interference.


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## jillian

VeganMe said:


> California - I learned the hard way that many, many "ethical, local farms" who claim to treat animals well do not do so. Not saying all of them don't, but people tend to say what their consumers wish to hear. It is not always just factory farms who do this.
> 
> And I would rather cows become extinct instead of them being born to suffer immensely before an excruciating death. It has always bothered me that farm animals (many of them) only exist to be killed for consumption. They are a species with an expiration date, and awful living conditions. This saddens me.
> 
> It's easy to believe farmers when they say "happy cows come from California" and so on. But again, they just tell you what you want to hear. Factory farms especially (among others) are interested mainly in profit. It's cheaper to treat animals like crap and kill them in ways you can't imagine (long, slowly, painfully). Sadly their welfare is less important to them than a quick buck.



^^^^^^^

and this is why vegans are weird.... 

i find concerning oneself about animals but not humans to be a bit of a disorder.


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## VeganMe

jillian - I am concerned for both humans and animals' well-being.


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## 9thIDdoc

Plants aren't as alive as animals?
You find lots of animals standing around in corn or wheat fields?


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## Si modo

jillian said:


> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> California - I learned the hard way that many, many "ethical, local farms" who claim to treat animals well do not do so. Not saying all of them don't, but people tend to say what their consumers wish to hear. It is not always just factory farms who do this.
> 
> And I would rather cows become extinct instead of them being born to suffer immensely before an excruciating death. It has always bothered me that farm animals (many of them) only exist to be killed for consumption. They are a species with an expiration date, and awful living conditions. This saddens me.
> 
> It's easy to believe farmers when they say "happy cows come from California" and so on. But again, they just tell you what you want to hear. Factory farms especially (among others) are interested mainly in profit. It's cheaper to treat animals like crap and kill them in ways you can't imagine (long, slowly, painfully). Sadly their welfare is less important to them than a quick buck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^^^^^
> 
> and this is why vegans are weird....
> 
> i find concerning oneself about animals but not humans to be a bit of a disorder.
Click to expand...

Yup.  Exactly.

And, I find the vegan lifestyle to be rather hypocritical...just like the Amish lifestyle.

But, oh well.  If that is their drive in life, who am I to judge having such a non-productive primary motivation?  Not my cup of tea, for sure.


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## Synthaholic

Si modo said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meh, some see what they want to see - confirmation bias is strong.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, how do you see it?  Do you really believe - or do you think they really believe - that them having two steaks or two cheeseburgers "restores the balance"?
> 
> C'mon, si.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought I already said what I see - many politicians believe that the least government influence as possible on the market is the best course of action, for many reasons.  So, when there IS interference, they make a point, and lo and behold, the USDA drops the interference.
Click to expand...

But it wasn't interference.  It wasn't a rule.  It wasn't a new guideline.  It wasn't a decree.  It wasn't anything like that.

It was a suggestion that they backed.

Didn't you read the link, or did you just make an assumption from the clipped part I posted?

Here, from the hated NY Times:



The message seemed innocuous enough, coming as it did from the federal  agency tasked with promoting sustainable agriculture and dietary health:  &#8220;One simple way to reduce your environmental impact while dining at our  cafeterias,&#8221; read a United States Department of Agriculture *interoffice newsletter* published on its Web site this week, &#8220;is to participate in the &#8216;Meatless Monday&#8217; initiative.&#8221;        

Thousands of corporate cafeterias, restaurants and schools have embraced the idea of skipping meat on Mondays in favor of vegetarian options, *an initiative of the nonprofit Monday Campaign Inc. and the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health.        *

&#8220;How will going meatless one day of the week help the environment?&#8221; it  asked. &#8220;The production of meat, especially beef (and dairy as well), has  a large environmental impact. According to the U.N., animal agriculture  is a major source of greenhouse gases and climate change. It also wastes resources. It takes 7,000 kg of grain to make 1,000 kg of beef.&#8221;​


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## Synthaholic

jillian said:


> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> California - I learned the hard way that many, many "ethical, local farms" who claim to treat animals well do not do so. Not saying all of them don't, but people tend to say what their consumers wish to hear. It is not always just factory farms who do this.
> 
> And I would rather cows become extinct instead of them being born to suffer immensely before an excruciating death. It has always bothered me that farm animals (many of them) only exist to be killed for consumption. They are a species with an expiration date, and awful living conditions. This saddens me.
> 
> It's easy to believe farmers when they say "happy cows come from California" and so on. But again, they just tell you what you want to hear. Factory farms especially (among others) are interested mainly in profit. It's cheaper to treat animals like crap and kill them in ways you can't imagine (long, slowly, painfully). Sadly their welfare is less important to them than a quick buck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^^^^^
> 
> and this is why vegans are weird....
> 
> i find concerning oneself about animals but not humans to be a bit of a disorder.
Click to expand...

I don't see any lack of concern for humans, Jillian.  What did I miss?


----------



## Si modo

Synthaholic said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, how do you see it?  Do you really believe - or do you think they really believe - that them having two steaks or two cheeseburgers "restores the balance"?
> 
> C'mon, si.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I already said what I see - many politicians believe that the least government influence as possible on the market is the best course of action, for many reasons.  So, when there IS interference, they make a point, and lo and behold, the USDA drops the interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But it wasn't interference.  It wasn't a rule.  It wasn't a new guideline.  It wasn't a decree.  It wasn't anything like that.
> 
> It was a suggestion that they backed.
> 
> Didn't you read the link, or did you just make an assumption from the clipped part I posted?
> 
> Here, from the hated NY Times:
> 
> 
> 
> The message seemed innocuous enough, coming as it did from the federal  agency tasked with promoting sustainable agriculture and dietary health:  One simple way to reduce your environmental impact while dining at our  cafeterias, read a United States Department of Agriculture *interoffice newsletter* published on its Web site this week, is to participate in the Meatless Monday initiative.
> 
> Thousands of corporate cafeterias, restaurants and schools have embraced the idea of skipping meat on Mondays in favor of vegetarian options, *an initiative of the nonprofit Monday Campaign Inc. and the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health.        *
> 
> How will going meatless one day of the week help the environment? it  asked. The production of meat, especially beef (and dairy as well), has  a large environmental impact. According to the U.N., animal agriculture  is a major source of greenhouse gases and climate change. It also wastes resources. It takes 7,000 kg of grain to make 1,000 kg of beef.​
Click to expand...

I know it was a suggestion.  It was a suggestion by the GOVERNMENT that would influence the market.


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## Synthaholic

9thIDdoc said:


> *Plants aren't as alive as animals?*
> You find lots of animals standing around in corn or wheat fields?



So much for a good, adult discussion.  The morons are arriving.


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## Toro

VeganMe said:


> California - I learned the hard way that many, many "ethical, local farms" who claim to treat animals well do not do so. Not saying all of them don't, but people tend to say what their consumers wish to hear. It is not always just factory farms who do this.
> 
> And I would rather cows become extinct instead of them being born to suffer immensely before an excruciating death. It has always bothered me that farm animals (many of them) only exist to be killed for consumption. They are a species with an expiration date, and awful living conditions. This saddens me.
> 
> It's easy to believe farmers when they say "happy cows come from California" and so on. But again, they just tell you what you want to hear. Factory farms especially (among others) are interested mainly in profit. It's cheaper to treat animals like crap and kill them in ways you can't imagine (long, slowly, painfully). Sadly their welfare is less important to them than a quick buck.



I worked on a kill floor.  The pigs and cows died instantly.  They didn't suffer.


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## Synthaholic

Si modo said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I already said what I see - many politicians believe that the least government influence as possible on the market is the best course of action, for many reasons.  So, when there IS interference, they make a point, and lo and behold, the USDA drops the interference.
> 
> 
> 
> But it wasn't interference.  It wasn't a rule.  It wasn't a new guideline.  It wasn't a decree.  It wasn't anything like that.
> 
> It was a suggestion that they backed.
> 
> Didn't you read the link, or did you just make an assumption from the clipped part I posted?
> 
> Here, from the hated NY Times:
> 
> 
> The message seemed innocuous enough, coming as it did from the federal  agency tasked with promoting sustainable agriculture and dietary health:  One simple way to reduce your environmental impact while dining at our  cafeterias, read a United States Department of Agriculture *interoffice newsletter* published on its Web site this week, is to participate in the Meatless Monday initiative.
> 
> Thousands of corporate cafeterias, restaurants and schools have embraced the idea of skipping meat on Mondays in favor of vegetarian options, *an initiative of the nonprofit Monday Campaign Inc. and the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health.        *
> 
> How will going meatless one day of the week help the environment? it  asked. The production of meat, especially beef (and dairy as well), has  a large environmental impact. According to the U.N., animal agriculture  is a major source of greenhouse gases and climate change. It also wastes resources. It takes 7,000 kg of grain to make 1,000 kg of beef.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know it was a suggestion.  It was a suggestion by the GOVERNMENT that would influence the market.
Click to expand...



The suggestion by the GOVERNMENT that smoking is bad for you influenced the tobacco market, and now vastly reduced numbers of children do not smoke, and will not develop lung cancer in huge numbers.

Was that bad, too?

How many more examples would you like me to come up with?


----------



## JWBooth

rightwinger said:


> "If you don't eat your meat........you can't have any pudding"



"How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?"


----------



## JWBooth

"I didn't climb to the top of the food chain to eat vegetables."
Rudy's BBQ T Shirt
A Texas based chain


----------



## California Girl

VeganMe said:


> California - I learned the hard way that many, many "ethical, local farms" who claim to treat animals well do not do so. Not saying all of them don't, but people tend to say what their consumers wish to hear. It is not always just factory farms who do this.
> 
> And I would rather cows become extinct instead of them being born to suffer immensely before an excruciating death. It has always bothered me that farm animals (many of them) only exist to be killed for consumption. They are a species with an expiration date, and awful living conditions. This saddens me.
> 
> It's easy to believe farmers when they say "happy cows come from California" and so on. But again, they just tell you what you want to hear. Factory farms especially (among others) are interested mainly in profit. It's cheaper to treat animals like crap and kill them in ways you can't imagine (long, slowly, painfully). Sadly their welfare is less important to them than a quick buck.



Was the 'hard way' watching some heartrending movie? I know the farmers I buy from. I pay more for my meat than I would in a store but I prefer to make that choice. Your way would mean the destruction of rural communities who rely on farming... it would mean that cows would be a species we see in zoos, not wandering in the field outside my house. No thanks. You're not saving animals, you're destroying them.


----------



## Synthaholic

Toro said:


> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> California - I learned the hard way that many, many "ethical, local farms" who claim to treat animals well do not do so. Not saying all of them don't, but people tend to say what their consumers wish to hear. It is not always just factory farms who do this.
> 
> And I would rather cows become extinct instead of them being born to suffer immensely before an excruciating death. It has always bothered me that farm animals (many of them) only exist to be killed for consumption. They are a species with an expiration date, and awful living conditions. This saddens me.
> 
> It's easy to believe farmers when they say "happy cows come from California" and so on. But again, they just tell you what you want to hear. Factory farms especially (among others) are interested mainly in profit. It's cheaper to treat animals like crap and kill them in ways you can't imagine (long, slowly, painfully). Sadly their welfare is less important to them than a quick buck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I worked on a kill floor.  The pigs and cows died instantly.  They didn't suffer.
Click to expand...


----------



## gallantwarrior

Si modo said:


> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I recently became vegan (for ethical reasons) and realized that it's much easier than I previously anticipated it would be.  So that puts a smile on my face. I'm wondering what those who post here think of veganism.
> 
> And, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask!
> 
> 
> 
> Do you wear leather shoes?   Have leather car interior?  Have any leather products at all?
Click to expand...


How about wearing cotton or linen?  Those crops, as well as the land needed to cultivate vegetables are taken and destroyed as natural habitat.


----------



## VeganMe

@ California - Okay, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

@ Gallantwarrior - Yes, I do wear cotton. Just not things made with animal products. I've seen how they make leather and it's a very disturbing reality.


----------



## JWBooth

The words sallow and wan come to mind first.


----------



## Indofred

VeganMe said:


> I recently became vegan (for ethical reasons) and realized that it's much easier than I previously anticipated it would be.  So that puts a smile on my face. I'm wondering what those who post here think of veganism.
> 
> And, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask!



It doesn't hurt anyone so get on with how you want to live.


----------



## Si modo

Synthaholic said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> But it wasn't interference.  It wasn't a rule.  It wasn't a new guideline.  It wasn't a decree.  It wasn't anything like that.
> 
> It was a suggestion that they backed.
> 
> Didn't you read the link, or did you just make an assumption from the clipped part I posted?
> 
> Here, from the hated NY Times:
> 
> 
> The message seemed innocuous enough, coming as it did from the federal  agency tasked with promoting sustainable agriculture and dietary health:  One simple way to reduce your environmental impact while dining at our  cafeterias, read a United States Department of Agriculture *interoffice newsletter* published on its Web site this week, is to participate in the Meatless Monday initiative.
> 
> Thousands of corporate cafeterias, restaurants and schools have embraced the idea of skipping meat on Mondays in favor of vegetarian options, *an initiative of the nonprofit Monday Campaign Inc. and the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health.        *
> 
> How will going meatless one day of the week help the environment? it  asked. The production of meat, especially beef (and dairy as well), has  a large environmental impact. According to the U.N., animal agriculture  is a major source of greenhouse gases and climate change. It also wastes resources. It takes 7,000 kg of grain to make 1,000 kg of beef.​
> 
> 
> 
> I know it was a suggestion.  It was a suggestion by the GOVERNMENT that would influence the market.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The suggestion by the GOVERNMENT that smoking is bad for you influenced the tobacco market, and now vastly reduced numbers of children do not smoke, and will not develop lung cancer in huge numbers.
> 
> Was that bad, too?
> 
> How many more examples would you like me to come up with?
Click to expand...

Comparing eating meat with smoking tobacco?  How does THAT work?


----------



## Big Fitz

You don't want to eat meat, animal products or anything of the sort?  Fine.  You say I can't?  Lucy, you gotsa problem.


----------



## VeganMe

^I never said anyone can't. Everyone has a choice and I'm not trying to shove my eating habits onto somebody else.


----------



## Big Fitz

JWBooth said:


> "I didn't climb to the top of the food chain to eat vegetables."
> Rudy's BBQ T Shirt
> A Texas based chain


God made me omnivorous for a reason, and the world, properly cooked and seasoned is pretty darn tasty.


----------



## syrenn

VeganMe said:


> I recently became vegan (for ethical reasons) and realized that it's much easier than I previously anticipated it would be.  So that puts a smile on my face. I'm wondering what those who post here think of veganism.
> 
> And, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask!




The human body is a meat eater. Your mental opinion makes you want to be vegan. 


I really don't care what you want to eat...or not to eat. I DO care when vegans or vegetarians INSIST they be accommodated.  

I my opinion.... do what you want as an adult... but putting or having a child on that type of diet is child abuse.


----------



## Big Fitz

VeganMe said:


> ^I never said anyone can't. Everyone has a choice and I'm not trying to shove my eating habits onto somebody else.


Then the answer stays the same.  Fine.  You go be vegan.  More power to you.  Try running guilt trips on me for having tasty tasty cow... yeah.  loud unhappy words.


----------



## gallantwarrior

I feel the same way about vegans as I do about gays, anti-hunters, anti-gun people, anti-smokers, etc.  I don't really care what your choices may be and I can leave you well enough alone.  That is, until someone feels they have some kind of twisted "right" to force me to follow their choices. I have no problem if you don't want to eat meat, hunt, own a firearm, or smoke, etc.   

My experience is, vegans who have made that choice for reasons of health are generally not as obnoxious about being vegan as those who make their choice for some philosophical ideology.  For my part, I not only farm, I hunt for my meat.  I rarely buy meat from the supermarket, my home-raised meat (mostly chevon right now) is healthy, happy, and very nutritious, not to mention fresh.  I have fresh milk, home made cheese, yogurt, and kefir.  Oh, yeah, I make a goat's milk soap that would likely put your vegan stuff to shame, but that's just me.  You would not believe how delicious a freshly picked hen-fruit or a "range-raised" chicken tastes.  I hunt wild game because that meat is also superior to store bought and I always know where it comes from and how it's processed.  And I use the hides to make leather.  I also raise many of the herbs and veggies I eat or I buy them from local producers.  
I have made these choices because I like to eat healthy, nutritious foods...and for ideological reasons.

I am happy that you have found a lifestyle that pleases you and that you are able to find products that help you achieve the goals you set by choosing that lifestyle.  Good luck.  Just please remember, not all of us would make the choice you have.


----------



## syrenn

VeganMe said:


> ^I never said anyone can't. Everyone has a choice and I'm not trying to shove my eating habits onto somebody else.




You may not.... but "vegans" taken as a whole..... do indeed force their eating habits onto other.


----------



## Si modo

Big Fitz said:


> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^I never said anyone can't. Everyone has a choice and I'm not trying to shove my eating habits onto somebody else.
> 
> 
> 
> Then the answer stays the same.  Fine.  You go be vegan.  More power to you.  Try running guilt trips on me for having tasty tasty cow... yeah.  loud unhappy words.
Click to expand...


----------



## Si modo




----------



## VeganMe

gallantwarrior said:


> I feel the same way about vegans as I do about gays, anti-hunters, anti-gun people, anti-smokers, etc.  I don't really care what your choices may be and I can leave you well enough alone.  That is, until someone feels they have some kind of twisted "right" to force me to follow their choices. I have no problem if you don't want to eat meat, hunt, own a firearm, or smoke, etc.
> 
> My experience is, vegans who have made that choice for reasons of health are generally not as obnoxious about being vegan as those who make their choice for some philosophical ideology.  For my part, I not only farm, I hunt for my meat.  I rarely buy meat from the supermarket, my home-raised meat (mostly chevon right now) is healthy, happy, and very nutritious, not to mention fresh.  I have fresh milk, home made cheese, yogurt, and kefir.  Oh, yeah, I make a goat's milk soap that would likely put your vegan stuff to shame, but that's just me.  You would not believe how delicious a freshly picked hen-fruit or a "range-raised" chicken tastes.  I hunt wild game because that meat is also superior to store bought and I always know where it comes from and how it's processed.  And I use the hides to make leather.  I also raise many of the herbs and veggies I eat or I buy them from local producers.
> I have made these choices because I like to eat healthy, nutritious foods...and for ideological reasons.
> 
> I am happy that you have found a lifestyle that pleases you and that you are able to find products that help you achieve the goals you set by choosing that lifestyle.  Good luck.  Just please remember, not all of us would make the choice you have.



Thanks for your mature and polite response


----------



## Big Fitz

Si modo said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^I never said anyone can't. Everyone has a choice and I'm not trying to shove my eating habits onto somebody else.
> 
> 
> 
> Then the answer stays the same.  Fine.  You go be vegan.  More power to you.  Try running guilt trips on me for having tasty tasty cow... yeah.  loud unhappy words.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dswOcb7pn6g]bobby squeal - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Synthaholic

Si modo said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know it was a suggestion.  It was a suggestion by the GOVERNMENT that would influence the market.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The suggestion by the GOVERNMENT that smoking is bad for you influenced the tobacco market, and now vastly reduced numbers of children do not smoke, and will not develop lung cancer in huge numbers.
> 
> Was that bad, too?
> 
> How many more examples would you like me to come up with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Comparing eating meat with smoking tobacco?  How does THAT work?
Click to expand...


No, comparing _suggestions by the GOVERNMENT that influence markets_.

YOUR red herring, not mine.  Care to continue with it?  There are loads of examples.


----------



## Big Fitz

Si modo said:


>


Um yeahhhh.... no giant underwater spiders for me, thanks.

You can has.


----------



## Synthaholic

Si modo said:


>


Sea cockroach!!!!!


----------



## Big Fitz

Synthaholic said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sea cockroach!!!!!
Click to expand...

for once... I'm with you Synthi.


----------



## Si modo

Synthaholic said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sea cockroach!!!!!
Click to expand...

You prefer sea spiders?

Yum.


----------



## Si modo

Synthaholic said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The suggestion by the GOVERNMENT that smoking is bad for you influenced the tobacco market, and now vastly reduced numbers of children do not smoke, and will not develop lung cancer in huge numbers.
> 
> Was that bad, too?
> 
> How many more examples would you like me to come up with?
> 
> 
> 
> Comparing eating meat with smoking tobacco?  How does THAT work?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, comparing _suggestions by the GOVERNMENT that influence markets_.
> 
> YOUR red herring, not mine.  Care to continue with it?  There are loads of examples.
Click to expand...

I prefer the LEAST government influence on markets.  So, yeah, the government warning label on smoking tobacco does influence the market for tobacco.  I understand it's for consumer health reasons.  As a smoker, it's too bad it doesn't influence me, personally.  Grrrrr.  Bad addiction.

Anyway, I'm just wondering how eating meat compares to smoking tobacco as far as health is concerned.


----------



## Big Fitz

Si modo said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sea cockroach!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You prefer sea spiders?
> 
> Yum.
Click to expand...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLBVBPvJOeQ]FOX Sunday Night Barf-tacular! - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Toro

Synthaholic said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> California - I learned the hard way that many, many "ethical, local farms" who claim to treat animals well do not do so. Not saying all of them don't, but people tend to say what their consumers wish to hear. It is not always just factory farms who do this.
> 
> And I would rather cows become extinct instead of them being born to suffer immensely before an excruciating death. It has always bothered me that farm animals (many of them) only exist to be killed for consumption. They are a species with an expiration date, and awful living conditions. This saddens me.
> 
> It's easy to believe farmers when they say "happy cows come from California" and so on. But again, they just tell you what you want to hear. Factory farms especially (among others) are interested mainly in profit. It's cheaper to treat animals like crap and kill them in ways you can't imagine (long, slowly, painfully). Sadly their welfare is less important to them than a quick buck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I worked on a kill floor.  The pigs and cows died instantly.  They didn't suffer.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


My uncle worked in the meat processing business for 30 years.  He got me a job one summer in unversity.  I worked on hog kill.  They herded them up a ramp, then "stuck" them with an electrified rod from a gun that killed them instantly.  Their tails and ears would go straight from their electricity.  That was standard practice in Canada.  Cows were stuck in their pens.  I don't know what the practice was in the US though I'm not sure why it would be different.  I'm sure you can always find abuses that make great TV, but that isn't representative of the industry, at least where I'm from.


----------



## Synthaholic

Big Fitz said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sea cockroach!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> for once... I'm with you Synthi.
Click to expand...

People eat things without first considering the 'lifestyle choices' of what they are eating!


----------



## Synthaholic

Si modo said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Comparing eating meat with smoking tobacco?  How does THAT work?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, comparing _suggestions by the GOVERNMENT that influence markets_.
> 
> YOUR red herring, not mine.  Care to continue with it?  There are loads of examples.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I prefer the LEAST government influence on markets.  So, yeah, the government warning label on smoking tobacco does influence the market for tobacco.  I understand it's for consumer health reasons.  As a smoker, it's too bad it doesn't influence me, personally.  Grrrrr.  Bad addiction.
> 
> *Anyway, I'm just wondering how eating meat compares to smoking tobacco as far as health is concerned.*
Click to expand...


Hmmm....I guess you don't read what I post.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...ou-think-of-them-post5702282.html#post5702282

And while it has a health factor, I didn't directly compare the health implications of tobacco and meat/dairy.

I compared the _suggestions by the GOVERNMENT that influence markets.
_
Not gonna let you sidetrack me into a different subject.


----------



## Synthaholic

Toro said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> I worked on a kill floor.  The pigs and cows died instantly.  They didn't suffer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My uncle worked in the meat processing business for 30 years.  He got me a job one summer in unversity.  I worked on hog kill.  They herded them up a ramp, then "stuck" them with an electrified rod from a gun that killed them instantly.  Their tails and ears would go straight from their electricity.  *That was standard practice in Canada.*
Click to expand...


Well, there's your answer.




> Cows were stuck in their pens.  I don't know what the practice was in the US *though I'm not sure why it would be different*.  I'm sure you can always find abuses that make great TV, but that isn't representative of the industry, at least where I'm from.



You've got to be kidding.


----------



## mudwhistle

VeganMe said:


> I recently became vegan (for ethical reasons) and realized that it's much easier than I previously anticipated it would be.  So that puts a smile on my face. I'm wondering what those who post here think of veganism.
> 
> And, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask!



Just means more meat for me.


----------



## Si modo

Synthaholic said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, comparing _suggestions by the GOVERNMENT that influence markets_.
> 
> YOUR red herring, not mine.  Care to continue with it?  There are loads of examples.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I prefer the LEAST government influence on markets.  So, yeah, the government warning label on smoking tobacco does influence the market for tobacco.  I understand it's for consumer health reasons.  As a smoker, it's too bad it doesn't influence me, personally.  Grrrrr.  Bad addiction.
> 
> *Anyway, I'm just wondering how eating meat compares to smoking tobacco as far as health is concerned.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmm....I guess you don't read what I post.
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...ou-think-of-them-post5702282.html#post5702282
> 
> And while it has a health factor, I didn't directly compare the health implications of tobacco and meat/dairy.
> 
> I compared the _suggestions by the GOVERNMENT that influence markets.
> _
> Not gonna let you sidetrack me into a different subject.
Click to expand...

I did read what you posted.  And, I'm not sidetracking you.  Obviously, I don't have much issue with the smoking influence.  I DO have issue with the meat influence.  And, the reasoning is that the meat does not even closely rise to the level of tobacco in health concerns.

As I said, the LEAST influence on the markets as necessary is a fundamental political canon for many in the USA.  I bet we both agree on that.  Where we likely disagree is on the word "necessary", I bet.


----------



## Synthaholic

Si modo said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I prefer the LEAST government influence on markets.  So, yeah, the government warning label on smoking tobacco does influence the market for tobacco.  I understand it's for consumer health reasons.  As a smoker, it's too bad it doesn't influence me, personally.  Grrrrr.  Bad addiction.
> 
> *Anyway, I'm just wondering how eating meat compares to smoking tobacco as far as health is concerned.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm....I guess you don't read what I post.
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...ou-think-of-them-post5702282.html#post5702282
> 
> And while it has a health factor, I didn't directly compare the health implications of tobacco and meat/dairy.
> 
> I compared the _suggestions by the GOVERNMENT that influence markets.
> _
> Not gonna let you sidetrack me into a different subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did read what you posted.  And, I'm not sidetracking you.  Obviously, I don't have much issue with the smoking influence.  I DO have issue with the meat influence.  And, the reasoning is that the meat does not even closely rise to the level of tobacco in health concerns.
> 
> As I said, the LEAST influence on the markets as necessary is a fundamental political canon for many in the USA.  I bet we both agree on that.  Where we likely disagree is on the word "necessary", I bet.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree.  I just think it's childish and quite revealing that these Congresscritters came out with these tweets, like suggesting to people that having Meatless Monday is some affront and attack on the livestock lobby that must be beaten back down.

There ARE health benefits to not eating meat every single day of your life.


----------



## Sallow

VeganMe said:


> I recently became vegan (for ethical reasons) and realized that it's much easier than I previously anticipated it would be.  So that puts a smile on my face. I'm wondering what those who post here think of veganism.
> 
> And, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask!



They are sure tasty!


----------



## Toro

Synthaholic said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pF68lEXyso
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My uncle worked in the meat processing business for 30 years.  He got me a job one summer in unversity.  I worked on hog kill.  They herded them up a ramp, then "stuck" them with an electrified rod from a gun that killed them instantly.  Their tails and ears would go straight from their electricity.  *That was standard practice in Canada.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, there's your answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cows were stuck in their pens.  I don't know what the practice was in the US *though I'm not sure why it would be different*.  I'm sure you can always find abuses that make great TV, but that isn't representative of the industry, at least where I'm from.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You've got to be kidding.
Click to expand...


I believe that was the way they slaughtered hogs at the plants he later ran in California too.


----------



## Two Thumbs

VeganMe said:


> I recently became vegan (for ethical reasons) and realized that it's much easier than I previously anticipated it would be.  So that puts a smile on my face. I'm wondering what those who post here think of veganism.
> 
> And, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask!



I think most of them are fakes.

Most people like meat, and those that don't are vegetarians.

The rest are mostly fakes and frauds faking some kind of moral high ground.

"I won't eat anything with a face."  plants are alive as well.
"We can get just as much protein from...."  bs, you're not getting the right kinds of proteins and are missing out on other essential vitamins and nutrients.
"I won't support the evil meat industry"  lame, you over support big agro who hire and abuse illegals to farm their land.


----------



## Liability

Public Service Announcement on behalf of Vegans:

Coming up.


----------



## Liability

PSA for Vegans:

Carrie Underwood is a Vegan.


----------



## Liability

Carrie Underwood, Vegan:


----------



## signelect

Eat what you want I do'nt really care but the ethical reasons are absurd to me.  The growers of vegatables rape the earth, don't rotate crops and just move to anotheer plot when the one they have can't grow any more crops.


----------



## Two Thumbs

Liability said:


> Carrie Underwood, Vegan:



no rack, but some nice camel toe


----------



## Immanuel

Since I really do not like most kinds of vegetables cooked, I would starve as a vegan.

Probably a great way for me to go on a crash diet.

Immie


----------



## Liability

Two Thumbs said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> Carrie Underwood, Vegan:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no rack, but some nice camel toe
Click to expand...


She has smaller sized breasts but they are perfectly fine in my view.

She normally doesn't reveal very much in the old pelvic region, but I wasn't focusing on the barest hint of vulva in that image.  

Her skin is close to flawless.  She is toned.  She has a very nice trim figure but still nice curves.  I love her eyes, too.  Always have since I first noticed her on American Idol.

Her voice (to me) isn't super, but she has a terrific attitude and overall presence.

If she's an ad for vegan, I may have to cut back a lot more on meat.


----------



## Crackerjack

VeganMe said:


> I recently became vegan (for ethical reasons) and realized that it's much easier than I previously anticipated it would be.  So that puts a smile on my face. I'm wondering what those who post here think of veganism.
> 
> And, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask!


I think veganism is a handy method for sanctimonious, preachy hipster assholes to self-flagellate upon a perceived moral high ground from which they can brow beat the rest of us _hoi polloi_ for our "immoral" choices.

Here's to hoping you're the exception.


----------



## Crackerjack

syrenn said:


> I my opinion.... do what you want as an adult... but putting or having a child on that type of diet is child abuse.


And doing so to a normally meat-eating animal is abusive as well.

Every once in a while I'll see these self-righteous pricks come into the vet with their doggie on a meatless diet and it makes me want to drop-kick the owner and feed the poor mutt a steak.

Our dogs are on grain-free diets of nothing but meat largely because *that's what God wants them to eat*.


----------



## jillian

syrenn said:


> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I recently became vegan (for ethical reasons) and realized that it's much easier than I previously anticipated it would be.  So that puts a smile on my face. I'm wondering what those who post here think of veganism.
> 
> And, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The human body is a meat eater. Your mental opinion makes you want to be vegan.
> 
> 
> I really don't care what you want to eat...or not to eat. I DO care when vegans or vegetarians INSIST they be accommodated.
> 
> I my opinion.... do what you want as an adult... but putting or having a child on that type of diet is child abuse.
Click to expand...


exactly... that whole a fish is a cow is a dog is a boy thing is deranged. and i have no patience for people who put animals ahead of humans.

i heard one animal rights activist say he would let his own child die rather than give it a baboon heart.... of course, cleveland amory had no children, so easy for him to spew that kind of nonsense, he should rest in peace.

i'm sorry... that's mentally ill as only an irrational zealot can be mentally ill.

and having dealt with animal rights activists, i am never overly impressed with people who are okay with lying compulsively to advance their agenda.


----------



## hortysir

Never tasted one


----------



## PredFan

I eat meat, lots of it. I'm a low-carb guy myself. there's a Texas De Brazil here in Orlando and every time I go there I eat a few pigs, cows and lambs.

Vegetables aren't food, they are decorations. Now herbs are just fine and dandy, when they are boosting the flavor of meat.

Vegetarians have a screw loose, Vegans are seriously deranged.


----------



## PredFan

Liability said:


> Carrie Underwood, Vegan:



Yeah, I'll pass. Way too skinny. Looks like I'd break her.


----------



## boedicca

Humans are ominivores who require complete protein for health.   It's very difficult to get complete protein on a vegan diet.  I don't find it a healthy way to live.


----------



## Liability

PredFan said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> Carrie Underwood, Vegan:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I'll pass. Way too skinny. Looks like I'd break her.
Click to expand...


Dude.  She married a freakin' Hockey player.

How much DO you weigh?


----------



## JWBooth

Liability said:


> Carrie Underwood, Vegan:



I prefer omnivores:


----------



## BDBoop

Liability said:


> Carrie Underwood, Vegan:



Kristen Bell, vegan.


----------



## boedicca

Vegan:

Raw vegans are sick,pale & emaciated - Give it to me Raw


----------



## BDBoop

Lea Michele, vegan.


----------



## Liability

BDBoop said:


> Lea Michele, vegan.



Except for her honker, I think she's cute, too.


----------



## BDBoop

Portia de Rossi (Ellen's wife) - vegan.


----------



## Liability

JWBooth said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> Carrie Underwood, Vegan:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I prefer omnivores:
Click to expand...


I give Giada props for hotness.


----------



## BDBoop

Liability said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lea Michele, vegan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except for her honker, I think she's cute, too.
Click to expand...


With that body, I'm surprised anybody makes it as far as her nose.


----------



## Liability

BDBoop said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lea Michele, vegan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except for her honker, I think she's cute, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With that body, I'm surprised anybody makes it as far as her nose.
Click to expand...


It makes a difference if you start at the bottom, the middle or the top.


----------



## del

VeganMe said:


> I recently became vegan (for ethical reasons) and realized that it's much easier than I previously anticipated it would be.  So that puts a smile on my face. I'm wondering what those who post here think of veganism.
> 
> And, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask!



since they eat primarily grains and vegetables, i find vegans to be quite tasty and easy to digest.


----------



## syrenn

Crackerjack said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I my opinion.... do what you want as an adult... but putting or having a child on that type of diet is child abuse.
> 
> 
> 
> And doing so to a normally meat-eating animal is abusive as well.
> 
> Every once in a while I'll see these self-righteous pricks come into the vet with their doggie on a meatless diet and it makes me want to drop-kick the owner and feed the poor mutt a steak.
> 
> Our dogs are on grain-free diets of nothing but meat largely because *that's what God wants them to eat*.
Click to expand...



I am so with you.... since the owners are vagan.... they put their poor pets on a vegan diet. Its just crazy in my opinion.


----------



## syrenn

jillian said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I recently became vegan (for ethical reasons) and realized that it's much easier than I previously anticipated it would be.  So that puts a smile on my face. I'm wondering what those who post here think of veganism.
> 
> And, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The human body is a meat eater. Your mental opinion makes you want to be vegan.
> 
> 
> I really don't care what you want to eat...or not to eat. I DO care when vegans or vegetarians INSIST they be accommodated.
> 
> I my opinion.... do what you want as an adult... but putting or having a child on that type of diet is child abuse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> exactly... that whole a fish is a cow is a dog is a boy thing is deranged. and i have no patience for people who put animals ahead of humans.
> 
> i heard one animal rights activist say he would let his own child die rather than give it a baboon heart.... of course, cleveland amory had no children, so easy for him to spew that kind of nonsense, he should rest in peace.
> 
> i'm sorry... that's mentally ill as only an irrational zealot can be mentally ill.
> 
> and having dealt with animal rights activists, i am never overly impressed with people who are okay with lying compulsively to advance their agenda.
Click to expand...



Now dont get me started on PETA freaks.... that is a totally different thread.  


Its a flat lifestyle choice.... i have no issue with that. But when it gets to the point where they want a restaurant not to store their meats with the veggies... or use the same pans that meat was cooked in.... or demand that they offer vegan choices.... oh fuck that.


----------



## Sunni Man

BDBoop said:


> Portia de Rossi (Ellen's wife) - vegan.


Well.......not exactly.......a 100% vegan.


----------



## boedicca

syrenn said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I my opinion.... do what you want as an adult... but putting or having a child on that type of diet is child abuse.
> 
> 
> 
> And doing so to a normally meat-eating animal is abusive as well.
> 
> Every once in a while I'll see these self-righteous pricks come into the vet with their doggie on a meatless diet and it makes me want to drop-kick the owner and feed the poor mutt a steak.
> 
> Our dogs are on grain-free diets of nothing but meat largely because *that's what God wants them to eat*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I am so with you.... since the owners are vagan.... they put their poor pets on a vegan diet. Its just crazy in my opinion.
Click to expand...



An acquaintance of mine put her cats on a vegan diet.  They rebelled and killed off the song birds in her neighborhood.

One cannot fool Mother Nature...


----------



## Si modo

del said:


> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I recently became vegan (for ethical reasons) and realized that it's much easier than I previously anticipated it would be.  So that puts a smile on my face. I'm wondering what those who post here think of veganism.
> 
> And, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> since they eat primarily grains and vegetables, i find vegans to be quite tasty and easy to digest.
Click to expand...

Free range vegans?  You haven't lived....


----------



## koshergrl

All I know is I like meat and when I eat a lot of meat and only a little green veggies, I feel better than I do when I eat a little meat and a lot of grains and veggies.

If I had a chef, I'd have that guy cooking meat 24/7 and I'd never eat anything else. All my aches and pains disappear when I'm low carb.


----------



## koshergrl

And my dogs agree. They're allergic to everything except chicken and pork and venison. They don't even do well on beef.


----------



## jillian

koshergrl said:


> And my dogs agree. They're allergic to everything except chicken and pork and venison. They don't even do well on beef.



my bunny likes veggies. 

but he also stole tuna on a cracker from my son and took it into his hutch to eat. 

go figure.


----------



## koshergrl

I had a cat that loved tomatoes and lettuce once.

Klaus and Mylo will eat anything that's not nailed down.

And then I get to deal with inflamed ears, itchy scratchies, and bright red checkerboard butts (well butt, Mylo) and bellies for a couple of days.


----------



## koshergrl

Rabbits...we eat them so they don't eat us:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg]Holy Grail - Killer Bunny - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## koshergrl

"That's no ordinary rabbit...That's the most foul, cruel and bad tempered rodent you've ever laid eyes on!...Look at the BONES!"


----------



## syrenn

boedicca said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> And doing so to a normally meat-eating animal is abusive as well.
> 
> Every once in a while I'll see these self-righteous pricks come into the vet with their doggie on a meatless diet and it makes me want to drop-kick the owner and feed the poor mutt a steak.
> 
> Our dogs are on grain-free diets of nothing but meat largely because *that's what God wants them to eat*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am so with you.... since the owners are vagan.... they put their poor pets on a vegan diet. Its just crazy in my opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> An acquaintance of mine put her cats on a vegan diet.  They rebelled and killed off the song birds in her neighborhood.
> 
> One cannot fool Mother Nature...
Click to expand...




Taking animals off of meat based diets will kill them.....  simple as that.


----------



## syrenn

jillian said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> And my dogs agree. They're allergic to everything except chicken and pork and venison. They don't even do well on beef.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my bunny likes veggies.
> 
> but he also stole tuna on a cracker from my son and took it into his hutch to eat.
> 
> go figure.
Click to expand...


Little devil!!!   

Bunnies built as herbivores...... but it would seem, yours at least likes tuna.


----------



## koshergrl

I had a french lop and made the mistake of putting my half-grown pet chicken in her hutch with her for a minute. She had the poor thing by the neck and almost killed it in about 2 seconds flat! I had to use a broken-handled hoe to push the rabbit back so I could rescue the bok-bok. It was traumatizing for us all.


----------



## Dot Com

Synthaholic said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> @ California - I am a vegan because I don't want to support (with my dollar) the meat and dairy industries, which are known for treating their animals very cruelly and inhumanely. I also don't want anything to have to die for me to eat it. I can eat other things.
> 
> @ Si Modo - I haven't heard of things like tires or plastic bags containing animal products. I'm still learning but that is not something I've heard before. As for things like toothpaste, shampoo and other similar items, they make vegan ones too. My new vegan hand soap actually smells great. The scent is so nice and it lingers on my hands after I've washed them for quite a while, which I like.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *So you would prefer to drive the whole industry, even those who treat their animals well, out of existence?* You prefer a world where cows are an 'endangered' species that you can only see in zoos? How strange.
> 
> I buy meat - but I only buy from ethical farming. This means I support good farming practice, and I also ensure that the cows at the farm at the end of my lane, live happy lives, and that the farm land stays as farm land instead of being sold off for development. Thanks, but no thanks to your way. Your way will lead to the destruction of animals that I love.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Industries stay in business because they meet a need.  If enough people decide they no longer want to buy a product, that industry shrinks and sometimes disappears.
> 
> This is the free market that you so-called 'conservatives' claim to revere.
> 
> Until it's inconvenient.
Click to expand...


CG is a socialist  Cow zoos lol. She is sooo obsessed w/ being the most pretentious beeatch on this board its cringe-worthy. VeganMe is much more adorable


----------



## VeganMe

Immanuel said:


> Since I really do not like most kinds of vegetables cooked, I would starve as a vegan.
> 
> Probably a great way for me to go on a crash diet.
> 
> Immie



Actually, I'm glad you said that.  (I'm not a veggie fan either!) It's a common misconception that "all vegans eat are vegetables and fruits." There are plenty who do eat that way. They like to call themselves "raw foodists" or "fructarians."

I personally couldn't eat that way either, I'd be too hungry and weak. Other vegans (who aren't talked about as much because our diets aren't extreme) eat everything the rest of the population eats, just with vegan ingredients. 

We can have fake meat, cheese pizza, macaroni, PB&J sandwiches, mexican, ice cream, cakes and cookies, and just about any other "normal" food you can think of. The only difference is they are made with no animal products - but that's it.


----------



## hortysir

Fake cheese and fake meat = processed and preserved.

How can you think that's better?


----------



## Dr.House

Dot Com said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> *So you would prefer to drive the whole industry, even those who treat their animals well, out of existence?* You prefer a world where cows are an 'endangered' species that you can only see in zoos? How strange.
> 
> I buy meat - but I only buy from ethical farming. This means I support good farming practice, and I also ensure that the cows at the farm at the end of my lane, live happy lives, and that the farm land stays as farm land instead of being sold off for development. Thanks, but no thanks to your way. Your way will lead to the destruction of animals that I love.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Industries stay in business because they meet a need.  If enough people decide they no longer want to buy a product, that industry shrinks and sometimes disappears.
> 
> This is the free market that you so-called 'conservatives' claim to revere.
> 
> Until it's inconvenient.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> CG is a socialist  Cow zoos lol. She is sooo obsessed w/ being the most pretentious beeatch on this board its cringe-worthy
Click to expand...


She sure does occupy a spot in your little cranium, Dottie Dumbfuck...

You sure are the boards creepiest stalker...

Kudos - you found a niche and went for it...


----------



## Mad Scientist

hortysir said:


> Fake cheese and fake meat = *processed and preserved.*
> 
> How can you think that's better?


That's how people get fat and unhealthy.


----------



## VeganMe

^Lots of foods are processed. Many foods that meat-eaters consume are as well. I would like to say that I didn't become a vegan for health (or allergy) reasons. I did it for moral reasons. And like any other diet, there are both healthy and not-so-healthy choices out there for the consumer.


----------



## koshergrl

There is no morality to eating, for Pete's sakes.


----------



## VeganMe

^You'd be surprised. It depends on how you look at things.


----------



## Toro

boedicca said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> And doing so to a normally meat-eating animal is abusive as well.
> 
> Every once in a while I'll see these self-righteous pricks come into the vet with their doggie on a meatless diet and it makes me want to drop-kick the owner and feed the poor mutt a steak.
> 
> Our dogs are on grain-free diets of nothing but meat largely because *that's what God wants them to eat*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am so with you.... since the owners are vagan.... they put their poor pets on a vegan diet. Its just crazy in my opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> An acquaintance of mine put her cats on a vegan diet.  They rebelled and killed off the song birds in her neighborhood.
> 
> One cannot fool Mother Nature...
Click to expand...


My wife has tried to feed our dog vegetables, thinking he should have a more balanced diet.  I've explained to her that our dog is a dog.  He can eat meat 24/7.  Funnily, he likes broccoli with salad dressing.  Actually, I think he just likes the salad dressing.


----------



## VeganMe

Turning a dog vegan would be really bad for the dog. Dogs are descended from wolves, which is a hunter/carnivorous animal. They don't eat plant-based or vegan things, so to a canine, it would be health-harmful.

Humans on the other hand, are capable of surviving on either or both. Most humans are omnivores, others are veggie/vegans and some (like the Eskimos) survive primarily on a carnivorous diet and get along just fine. 

So, I would say humans are a very flexible species, diet-wise. We can eat just about anything and survive on it. Unfortunately dogs aren't built that way, so vegans who try turning their pets veggie are actually (probably) doing them harm. (Btw, my dog HATED broccoli. He always spit it out if I gave him some!) lol


----------



## hortysir

VeganMe said:


> ^Lots of foods are processed. Many foods that meat-eaters consume are as well. I would like to say that I didn't become a vegan for health (or allergy) reasons. I did it for moral reasons. And like any other diet, there are both healthy and not-so-healthy choices out there for the consumer.



Hey, I ain't knocking ya.

An employee of mine turned Vegan and I never really talked to her *this* much about it.

More steak for me!!


----------



## Liability

I do think there's _some_ connection between a vegan diet and the relative hotness of Carrie Underwood. 

If the discussion of Vegan diet did nothing else, at least it got me to look at another image of Ms. Underwood.  So, it's a good thing.


----------



## koshergrl

VeganMe said:


> ^You'd be surprised. It depends on how you look at things.



^^no, not really.


----------



## VeganMe

^^Yes, yes really.


----------



## Liability

No.  Really, not at all.


----------



## del

California Girl said:


> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> @ California - I am a vegan because I don't want to support (with my dollar) the meat and dairy industries, which are known for treating their animals very cruelly and inhumanely. I also don't want anything to have to die for me to eat it. I can eat other things.
> 
> @ Si Modo - I haven't heard of things like tires or plastic bags containing animal products. I'm still learning but that is not something I've heard before. As for things like toothpaste, shampoo and other similar items, they make vegan ones too. My new vegan hand soap actually smells great. The scent is so nice and it lingers on my hands after I've washed them for quite a while, which I like.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you would prefer to drive the whole industry, even those who treat their animals well, out of existence? You prefer a world where cows are an 'endangered' species that you can only see in zoos? How strange.
> 
> I buy meat - but I only buy from ethical farming. This means I support good farming practice, and I also ensure that the cows at the farm at the end of my lane, live happy lives, and that the farm land stays as farm land instead of being sold off for development. Thanks, but no thanks to your way. Your way will lead to the destruction of animals that I love.
Click to expand...


yes, you've told us how awesome you are

again and
again and
again and
again and
again and
again and
again and
again and
again

thanks for reenforcing it, in case we'd forgotten


----------



## bobcollum

I love steak.

I have a sister and brother-in-law that are vegans...they're alright I guess.


----------



## bobcollum

VeganMe said:


> ^^Yes, yes really.



KG is one of those that I mentioned in your other thread.


----------



## Indofred

VeganMe said:


> ^^Yes, yes really.



Yes, really.

Some people don't want to be the cause of hurt to living things.
I don't agree with the opinion and I like to eat meat but I fully understand and support the position of those who don't.

VeganMe has taken a stand that hurts no one.
I see no reason to knock it.


----------



## ItsjustmeIthink

VeganMe said:


> I recently became vegan (for ethical reasons) and realized that it's much easier than I previously anticipated it would be.  So that puts a smile on my face. I'm wondering what those who post here think of veganism.
> 
> And, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask!



I'll probably be one in a couple of years, if not sooner. I'll still eat lean, natural meat though, I just like it too much.

Because....I JUST LOVE ME SOME GROWTH HORMONE

mmmmm mmmmmm mmm, that's how I like my meat, baste in chemicals  yummie

edit: just to clearfy, not a 'moral' choice. A health one.


----------



## gallantwarrior

Liability said:


> Carrie Underwood, Vegan:



Vegans don't have boobs?


----------



## Liability

When we pull a carrot from the ground, it screams!

It cries!

And the EARTH cries along with the carrot!

Oh!  HOW COULD WE?

Personally, I think the group known as breatharians have the right idea.

Unless the air hurts when we breathe, of course.


----------



## gallantwarrior

Liability said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> Carrie Underwood, Vegan:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no rack, but some nice camel toe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She has smaller sized breasts but they are perfectly fine in my view.
> 
> She normally doesn't reveal very much in the old pelvic region, but I wasn't focusing on the barest hint of vulva in that image.
> 
> Her skin is close to flawless.  She is toned.  She has a very nice trim figure but still nice curves.  I love her eyes, too.  Always have since I first noticed her on American Idol.
> 
> Her voice (to me) isn't super, but she has a terrific attitude and overall presence.
> 
> If she's an ad for vegan, I may have to cut back a lot more on meat.
Click to expand...


Save a cow, eat a vegan...


----------



## Liability

gallantwarrior said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> Carrie Underwood, Vegan:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vegans don't have boobs?
Click to expand...


Yeah.  Like you wouldn't play with her boobs if you could.


----------



## VeganMe

Indofred said:


> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^^Yes, yes really.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, really.
> 
> Some people don't want to be the cause of hurt to living things.
> I don't agree with the opinion and I like to eat meat but I fully understand and support the position of those who don't.
> 
> VeganMe has taken a stand that hurts no one.
> I see no reason to knock it.
Click to expand...


Thanks so much for that! Your words are very appreciated.


----------



## gallantwarrior

Crackerjack said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I my opinion.... do what you want as an adult... but putting or having a child on that type of diet is child abuse.
> 
> 
> 
> And doing so to a normally meat-eating animal is abusive as well.
> 
> Every once in a while I'll see these self-righteous pricks come into the vet with their doggie on a meatless diet and it makes me want to drop-kick the owner and feed the poor mutt a steak.
> 
> Our dogs are on grain-free diets of nothing but meat largely because *that's what God wants them to eat*.
Click to expand...


That reminds me of a woman I once worked with...
She was vegan and she was convinced that she could convert her cat, too.  We busted her once at Kentucky Fried.  She was picking the crunchy crust of the chicken she had bought for her cat.  Damned cat would not quit craving meat.  She was nonplussed when we suggested that it was downright wrong for her to eat just the skin off the chicken.  She swore it was just crust and the cat was getting fat eating it.  She was a bonehead on a lot of levels, though...


----------



## gallantwarrior

jillian said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I recently became vegan (for ethical reasons) and realized that it's much easier than I previously anticipated it would be.  So that puts a smile on my face. I'm wondering what those who post here think of veganism.
> 
> And, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The human body is a meat eater. Your mental opinion makes you want to be vegan.
> 
> 
> I really don't care what you want to eat...or not to eat. I DO care when vegans or vegetarians INSIST they be accommodated.
> 
> I my opinion.... do what you want as an adult... but putting or having a child on that type of diet is child abuse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> exactly... that whole a fish is a cow is a dog is a boy thing is deranged. and i have no patience for people who put animals ahead of humans.
> 
> i heard one animal rights activist say he would let his own child die rather than give it a baboon heart.... of course, cleveland amory had no children, so easy for him to spew that kind of nonsense, he should rest in peace.
> 
> i'm sorry... that's mentally ill as only an irrational zealot can be mentally ill.
> 
> and having dealt with animal rights activists, i am never overly impressed with people who are okay with lying compulsively to advance their agenda.
Click to expand...


Most animals would protect their own before "favoring" another animal.  Ooops!  That's what separates us from the critters, isn't it.


----------



## gallantwarrior

syrenn said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I my opinion.... do what you want as an adult... but putting or having a child on that type of diet is child abuse.
> 
> 
> 
> And doing so to a normally meat-eating animal is abusive as well.
> 
> Every once in a while I'll see these self-righteous pricks come into the vet with their doggie on a meatless diet and it makes me want to drop-kick the owner and feed the poor mutt a steak.
> 
> Our dogs are on grain-free diets of nothing but meat largely because *that's what God wants them to eat*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I am so with you.... since the owners are vagan.... they put their poor pets on a vegan diet. Its just crazy in my opinion.
Click to expand...


Unless their pet is a hamster or bunny.


----------



## gallantwarrior

syrenn said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The human body is a meat eater. Your mental opinion makes you want to be vegan.
> 
> 
> I really don't care what you want to eat...or not to eat. I DO care when vegans or vegetarians INSIST they be accommodated.
> 
> I my opinion.... do what you want as an adult... but putting or having a child on that type of diet is child abuse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> exactly... that whole a fish is a cow is a dog is a boy thing is deranged. and i have no patience for people who put animals ahead of humans.
> 
> i heard one animal rights activist say he would let his own child die rather than give it a baboon heart.... of course, cleveland amory had no children, so easy for him to spew that kind of nonsense, he should rest in peace.
> 
> i'm sorry... that's mentally ill as only an irrational zealot can be mentally ill.
> 
> and having dealt with animal rights activists, i am never overly impressed with people who are okay with lying compulsively to advance their agenda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Now dont get me started on PETA freaks.... that is a totally different thread.
> 
> 
> Its a flat lifestyle choice.... i have no issue with that. But when it gets to the point where they want a restaurant not to store their meats with the veggies... or use the same pans that meat was cooked in.... or demand that they offer vegan choices.... oh fuck that.
Click to expand...


If they want vegan diets, I'm sure there are plenty of restaurants that cater to them.


----------



## gallantwarrior

jillian said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> And my dogs agree. They're allergic to everything except chicken and pork and venison. They don't even do well on beef.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my bunny likes veggies.
> 
> but he also stole tuna on a cracker from my son and took it into his hutch to eat.
> 
> go figure.
Click to expand...


I guess even bunnies make lifestyle choices that may not be quite natural for them.  I've had cats who ate cantelope and avocado, too.


----------



## gallantwarrior

hortysir said:


> Fake cheese and fake meat = processed and preserved.
> 
> How can you think that's better?



Fake cheese and meat are loaded with all kinds of chemicals and other crap.  But really, if you're convinced you want to eat a vegan diet, why even bother with fake stuff?


----------



## Indofred

Liability said:


> Carrie Underwood, Vegan:



Hell's bells.
I'd share my carrot with her any day of the week.


----------



## VeganMe

@ Gallantwarrior - Why not? It tastes good. Some people go vegan for health, others (like me) do so for ethical reasons, but still want to maintain a normal diet and feel like we can eat what "everyone else" eats. There are vegans who choose the diet for health AND morality, but speaking for myself, I did it for morality.


----------



## gallantwarrior

Toro said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am so with you.... since the owners are vagan.... they put their poor pets on a vegan diet. Its just crazy in my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An acquaintance of mine put her cats on a vegan diet.  They rebelled and killed off the song birds in her neighborhood.
> 
> One cannot fool Mother Nature...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My wife has tried to feed our dog vegetables, thinking he should have a more balanced diet.  I've explained to her that our dog is a dog.  He can eat meat 24/7.  Funnily, he likes broccoli with salad dressing.  Actually, I think he just likes the salad dressing.
Click to expand...


Dogs really aren't picky.  I have a doxie that absolutely adores kitty rocha.  Encourages a high level of cat box hygiene...


----------



## Liability

My dog likes to eat grass once in a while.

Then it barfs.

Grass is like doggie ipecac syrup.


----------



## gallantwarrior

Indofred said:


> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^^Yes, yes really.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, really.
> 
> Some people don't want to be the cause of hurt to living things.
> I don't agree with the opinion and I like to eat meat but I fully understand and support the position of those who don't.
> 
> VeganMe has taken a stand that hurts no one.
> I see no reason to knock it.
Click to expand...


Me neither, as long as I am not expected to follow suit, and that includes having regulation and laws pushed that will somehow make my meat-eating "bad".


----------



## gallantwarrior

Liability said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> Carrie Underwood, Vegan:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vegans don't have boobs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah.  Like you wouldn't play with her boobs if you could.
Click to expand...


There would have to be boobs to play with...


----------



## gallantwarrior

VeganMe said:


> @ Gallantwarrior - Why not? It tastes good. Some people go vegan for health, others (like me) do so for ethical reasons, but still want to maintain a normal diet and feel like we can eat what "everyone else" eats. There are vegans who choose the diet for health AND morality, but speaking for myself, I did it for morality.



Most of your "substitutes" for meat, cheese, milk, etc are made from GMO soy and corn products, particularly corn syrup.  You might want to educate yourself a bit before committing to their consumption.

Institute for Responsible Technology - GMO Education

What Are The Dangers Of Gmo Soybeans? | LIVESTRONG.COM

Beware of Genetically-Modified "Healthy" Foods

There are loads of articles out there, don't take my word for it.


----------



## Indofred

gallantwarrior said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^^Yes, yes really.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, really.
> 
> Some people don't want to be the cause of hurt to living things.
> I don't agree with the opinion and I like to eat meat but I fully understand and support the position of those who don't.
> 
> VeganMe has taken a stand that hurts no one.
> I see no reason to knock it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Me neither, as long as I am not expected to follow suit, and that includes having regulation and laws pushed that will somehow make my meat-eating "bad".
Click to expand...


I don't think anyone (maybe a few nut jobs) is suggesting laws to force vegan dinners on anyone.


----------



## thanatos144

What do I think of Vegans????


I think they are mostly self involved hippies who think they are better cause they dont eat meat or anything still on the vine....So you guys can keep on eating garbage I will stay with fresh meat and vegetables and when you act like you are some how better then us well I will to tell you this  I would rather be happy then self important. 



Hippies are annoying.


----------



## Intense

VeganMe said:


> I recently became vegan (for ethical reasons) and realized that it's much easier than I previously anticipated it would be.  So that puts a smile on my face. I'm wondering what those who post here think of veganism.
> 
> And, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask!



It's a Life Style choice. Go for it for as long as it suits you.


----------



## gallantwarrior

Indofred said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, really.
> 
> Some people don't want to be the cause of hurt to living things.
> I don't agree with the opinion and I like to eat meat but I fully understand and support the position of those who don't.
> 
> VeganMe has taken a stand that hurts no one.
> I see no reason to knock it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me neither, as long as I am not expected to follow suit, and that includes having regulation and laws pushed that will somehow make my meat-eating "bad".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think anyone (maybe a few nut jobs) is suggesting laws to force vegan dinners on anyone.
Click to expand...


Not yet.  But did you ever think we'd see laws that would force everyone to accept gay marriage?


----------



## Crackerjack

Liability said:


> My dog likes to eat grass once in a while.
> 
> Then it barfs.
> 
> Grass is like doggie ipecac syrup.


I read somewhere that dogs eat a little grass from time to time to supplement their diet.  But yeah, if your dog eats grass *all* the time, he's probably got some sort of digestive issue.


----------



## Crackerjack

thanatos144 said:


> Hippies are annoying.


Hippie chicks like to get naked a lot though.  And that damn sure makes me happy.


----------



## Indofred

gallantwarrior said:


> Most of your "substitutes" for meat, cheese, milk, etc are made from GMO soy and corn products, particularly corn syrup.  You might want to educate yourself a bit before committing to their consumption..



Only if you don't look around for the right things.

Indonesia has, along with a lot of other things, Tempe. (Pro, tempay).
100% vegan but all the proteins and so on of meat.
100% organic in most cases and tastes great.
I'm far from a vegan or veggie but I have to like that stuff.
Tastes great and can be prepared in a wide variety of ways.
My favourite is thin sliced and fried with a spicy sauce, then served on rice.

I suggest the OP give it a try.
Tempeh


----------



## thanatos144

Crackerjack said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hippies are annoying.
> 
> 
> 
> Hippie chicks like to get naked a lot though.  And that damn sure makes me happy.
Click to expand...


Maybe furry women turn you on but I like mine shaved and clean and not smelling of human waste and weed.


----------



## VeganMe

gallantwarrior said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> Me neither, as long as I am not expected to follow suit, and that includes having regulation and laws pushed that will somehow make my meat-eating "bad".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think anyone (maybe a few nut jobs) is suggesting laws to force vegan dinners on anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not yet.  But did you ever think we'd see laws that would force everyone to accept gay marriage?
Click to expand...


For what it's worth, my views go to show that not all vegans are "pot-smoking hippies with dreadlocks" as is commonly shown in media. I'm not liberal or conservative but somewhere in between - depends on the issue. I support traditional marriage, which again proves that not all vegans have a liberal mindset.


----------



## Crackerjack

Indofred said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most of your "substitutes" for meat, cheese, milk, etc are made from GMO soy and corn products, particularly corn syrup.  You might want to educate yourself a bit before committing to their consumption..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only if you don't look around for the right things.
> 
> Indonesia has, along with a lot of other things, Tempe. (Pro, tempay).
> 100% vegan but all the proteins and so on of meat.
> 100% organic in most cases and tastes great.
> I'm far from a vegan or veggie but I have to like that stuff.
> Tastes great and can be prepared in a wide variety of ways.
> My favourite is thin sliced and fried with a spicy sauce, then served on rice.
> 
> I suggest the OP give it a try.
> Tempeh
Click to expand...

Buddhists have come up with a lot of interesting meat substitutes over the years that aren't all that bad, too.  There's a Chinese dish I have had in the past that is tofu seasoned and cooked to taste like pork.  If I didn't know better, I'd have definitely thought that it was pork.


----------



## Indofred

gallantwarrior said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> Me neither, as long as I am not expected to follow suit, and that includes having regulation and laws pushed that will somehow make my meat-eating "bad".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think anyone (maybe a few nut jobs) is suggesting laws to force vegan dinners on anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not yet.  But did you ever think we'd see laws that would force everyone to accept gay marriage?
Click to expand...


I refuse to marry a poof; I want to marry a really butch dude.
Tell me about your forced marriage to a man.


----------



## Crackerjack

thanatos144 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hippies are annoying.
> 
> 
> 
> Hippie chicks like to get naked a lot though.  And that damn sure makes me happy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe furry women turn you on but I like mine shaved and clean and not smelling of human waste and weed.
Click to expand...

I drink a lot and have astonishingly low standards.


----------



## hortysir

Crackerjack said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> My dog likes to eat grass once in a while.
> 
> Then it barfs.
> 
> Grass is like doggie ipecac syrup.
> 
> 
> 
> I read somewhere that dogs eat a little grass from time to time to supplement their diet.  But yeah, if your dog eats grass *all* the time, he's probably got some sort of digestive issue.
Click to expand...


I was taught they eat it to get rid of worms.
The worms are supposed to attached to the grass before they puke or shit it out


----------



## Indofred

Crackerjack said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most of your "substitutes" for meat, cheese, milk, etc are made from GMO soy and corn products, particularly corn syrup.  You might want to educate yourself a bit before committing to their consumption..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only if you don't look around for the right things.
> 
> Indonesia has, along with a lot of other things, Tempe. (Pro, tempay).
> 100% vegan but all the proteins and so on of meat.
> 100% organic in most cases and tastes great.
> I'm far from a vegan or veggie but I have to like that stuff.
> Tastes great and can be prepared in a wide variety of ways.
> My favourite is thin sliced and fried with a spicy sauce, then served on rice.
> 
> I suggest the OP give it a try.
> Tempeh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Buddhists have come up with a lot of interesting meat substitutes over the years that aren't all that bad, too.  There's a Chinese dish I have had in the past that is tofu seasoned and cooked to taste like pork.  If I didn't know better, I'd have definitely thought that it was pork.
Click to expand...


Interesting you mention Buddhists.
Hindus have spread a lot of veggie foods as well.
Here, poverty forces a veggie diet on many but it can be pretty good.
My first Chinese girlfriend said I was too fat and put me on Chinese traditional food.
I lost 20kg in two months and felt bloody great.
There was meat in there but in small quantities.


----------



## thanatos144

crackerjack said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> hippie chicks like to get naked a lot though.  And that damn sure makes me happy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> maybe furry women turn you on but i like mine shaved and clean and not smelling of human waste and weed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i drink a lot and have astonishingly low standards.
Click to expand...


lol


----------



## Indofred

Crackerjack said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hippie chicks like to get naked a lot though.  And that damn sure makes me happy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe furry women turn you on but I like mine shaved and clean and not smelling of human waste and weed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *I drink a lot and have astonishingly low standards.*
Click to expand...


A top quality post.


----------



## koshergrl

VeganMe said:


> @ Gallantwarrior - Why not? It tastes good. Some people go vegan for health, others (like me) do so for ethical reasons, but still want to maintain a normal diet and feel like we can eat what "everyone else" eats. There are vegans who choose the diet for health AND morality, but speaking for myself, I did it for morality.



Good grief, do you think you can thow in "morality" or "ethical" just one more time, in case any of us are in doubt that you see yourself as just a click or two above the fray?


----------



## koshergrl

"Some people eschew meat for medical reasons...but I do it because I'm a better person."


----------



## thanatos144

koshergrl said:


> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> @ Gallantwarrior - Why not? It tastes good. Some people go vegan for health, others (like me) do so for ethical reasons, but still want to maintain a normal diet and feel like we can eat what "everyone else" eats. There are vegans who choose the diet for health AND morality, but speaking for myself, I did it for morality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good grief, do you think you can thow in "morality" or "ethical" just one more time, in case any of us are in doubt that you see yourself as just a click or two above the fray?
Click to expand...


Maybe thats why I like meat....I dont seem to be arrogant enough to be a vegan LOL


----------



## koshergrl

I have decided it is my moral and ethical duty to try.


----------



## koshergrl

So Veganee...what brings you to our neck of the woods? How did you hear of USMB?

She appears to be avoiding answering that question.


----------



## thanatos144

So does being a vegan mean no oral sex?


----------



## VeganMe

koshergrl said:


> "Some people eschew meat for medical reasons...but I do it because I'm a better person."



I don't think I'm a better person. I'm not one of the PETA freaks who will try to belittle anyone who doesn't eat or think like me. Live and let live. I was just explaining to you that I'm a vegan for *those* reasons you listed, not dietary.


----------



## VeganMe

koshergrl said:


> So Veganee...what brings you to our neck of the woods? How did you hear of USMB?
> 
> She appears to be avoiding answering that question.



Please refer to my thread on the "introduction board" if interested. I explain it all there.


----------



## koshergrl

Good heavens, how on earth did I miss that...

Off I trot.


----------



## VeganMe

Heh, no worries!


----------



## thanatos144

See I like veggies.....Mostly served on the side with a steak but hey if you dont want meat thats fine.....But to say it is  a moral choice like I am somehow this immoral barbarian cause I like a burger with real cow in it is quite annoying.


----------



## koshergrl

I don't see that you shared how you heard of our site there, or who invited you, either.


----------



## thanatos144

who cares?


----------



## Indofred

thanatos144 said:


> So does being a vegan mean no oral sex?



I assume it's fine as long as they don't swallow.
I'm happy to allow any vegan ladies to use me for practice.


----------



## bobcollum

koshergrl said:


> I don't see that you shared how you heard of our site there, or who invited you, either.



Are you writing a fucking book?


----------



## koshergrl

I'm working a hunch.


----------



## VeganMe

koshergrl said:


> I don't see that you shared how you heard of our site there, or who invited you, either.



Huh, really? I think I explained it pretty well in my intro post, but...

No one invited me. I came across this forum when I typed in "Earthlings movie message board" and found an inspiring thread so I wanted to join the site to get in touch with the thread starter.

Hope that clears it up.


----------



## gallantwarrior

VeganMe said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think anyone (maybe a few nut jobs) is suggesting laws to force vegan dinners on anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not yet.  But did you ever think we'd see laws that would force everyone to accept gay marriage?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For what it's worth, my views go to show that not all vegans are "pot-smoking hippies with dreadlocks" as is commonly shown in media. I'm not liberal or conservative but somewhere in between - depends on the issue. I support traditional marriage, which again proves that not all vegans have a liberal mindset.
Click to expand...


I never said vegans are pot-smoking hippies.  I know a few vegans and I actually sell some of my yogurt to Sikhs, who claim to be Ayurveda vegetarians.  My biggest concern is that many vegans and vegetarians tend to be convinced that their choice is the right choice to save the planet.  Having that self-righteous conviction, many (not all) do proselytize their choice and they also indicate a desire to "persuade" the recalcitrant, come hell or high water.  Of course, the end justifies the means and government/politicians are more than happy to pander to any "special" group if they think that group will work for the politicians' benefit.


----------



## Politico

I have no problem with Vegans. I have a problem when they go out of their way to tell me about it.


----------



## VeganMe

gallantwarrior said:


> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not yet.  But did you ever think we'd see laws that would force everyone to accept gay marriage?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For what it's worth, my views go to show that not all vegans are "pot-smoking hippies with dreadlocks" as is commonly shown in media. I'm not liberal or conservative but somewhere in between - depends on the issue. I support traditional marriage, which again proves that not all vegans have a liberal mindset.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never said vegans are pot-smoking hippies.  I know a few vegans and I actually sell some of my yogurt to Sikhs, who claim to be Ayurveda vegetarians.  My biggest concern is that many vegans and vegetarians tend to be convinced that their choice is the right choice to save the planet.  Having that self-righteous conviction, many (not all) do proselytize their choice and they also indicate a desire to "persuade" the recalcitrant, come hell or high water.  Of course, the end justifies the means and government/politicians are more than happy to pander to any "special" group if they think that group will work for the politicians' benefit.
Click to expand...


I understand this POV. Heck, I used to be annoyed by many vegan attitudes before I became one. Watched Earthlings and BAM! My mind changed overnight. I remember (before I changed) thinking how snobbish, arrogant and annoying vegans were. I've since learned that not all of us are the loud-mouthed, offensive members of PETA. Many are quieter and gentler...I like to consider myself one of those 

And none of us think our choices "save the world." Of course not. We just know that our choices no longer support animal killing or cruelty. (Just one issue of many in the world). But I would never be so arrogant as to tell somebody else how to live or eat. That is their personal choice just like veganism is mine.


----------



## bobcollum

KG if you smell a sock you're supposed to report it, no?


----------



## gallantwarrior

Crackerjack said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most of your "substitutes" for meat, cheese, milk, etc are made from GMO soy and corn products, particularly corn syrup.  You might want to educate yourself a bit before committing to their consumption..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only if you don't look around for the right things.
> 
> Indonesia has, along with a lot of other things, Tempe. (Pro, tempay).
> 100% vegan but all the proteins and so on of meat.
> 100% organic in most cases and tastes great.
> I'm far from a vegan or veggie but I have to like that stuff.
> Tastes great and can be prepared in a wide variety of ways.
> My favourite is thin sliced and fried with a spicy sauce, then served on rice.
> 
> I suggest the OP give it a try.
> Tempeh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Buddhists have come up with a lot of interesting meat substitutes over the years that aren't all that bad, too.  There's a Chinese dish I have had in the past that is tofu seasoned and cooked to taste like pork.  If I didn't know better, I'd have definitely thought that it was pork.
Click to expand...


Oh, I do like tofu.  You can do a lot of things with it, but you do have to be wary of the source.  Tofu is also known as "bean curd", as in soy bean.  Soy is almost all GMO now.  It's been pushed my Monsanto and other agri-giants.  Be aware that GMO crops do not self-propagate (make viable seeds).  Do you think there's a reason why?  They also do many other, very unhealthy things to those plants when they bio-engineer them.


----------



## thanatos144

VeganMe said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> For what it's worth, my views go to show that not all vegans are "pot-smoking hippies with dreadlocks" as is commonly shown in media. I'm not liberal or conservative but somewhere in between - depends on the issue. I support traditional marriage, which again proves that not all vegans have a liberal mindset.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said vegans are pot-smoking hippies.  I know a few vegans and I actually sell some of my yogurt to Sikhs, who claim to be Ayurveda vegetarians.  My biggest concern is that many vegans and vegetarians tend to be convinced that their choice is the right choice to save the planet.  Having that self-righteous conviction, many (not all) do proselytize their choice and they also indicate a desire to "persuade" the recalcitrant, come hell or high water.  Of course, the end justifies the means and government/politicians are more than happy to pander to any "special" group if they think that group will work for the politicians' benefit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand this POV. Heck, I used to be annoyed by many vegan attitudes before I became one. Watched Earthlings and BAM! My mind changed overnight. I remember (before I changed) thinking how snobbish, arrogant and annoying vegans were. I've since learned that not all of us are the loud-mouthed, offensive members of PETA. Many are quieter and gentler...I like to consider myself one of those
> 
> And none of us think our choices "save the world." Of course not. We just know that our choices no longer support animal killing or cruelty. (Just one issue of many in the world).
Click to expand...

You do know one of the first things they do to brainwash a person is take away protein mostly found in meat right???I think this is one of the reasons the Veggies always fall for the stupidest shit that is put in front of them... Like a happy meal is evil.


----------



## gallantwarrior

Indofred said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think anyone (maybe a few nut jobs) is suggesting laws to force vegan dinners on anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not yet.  But did you ever think we'd see laws that would force everyone to accept gay marriage?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I refuse to marry a poof; I want to marry a really butch dude.
> Tell me about your forced marriage to a man.
Click to expand...


Ahem!  I did not say forced to marry a gay, did I?  No.  But everyone is being forced to _accept_ gay marriage.


----------



## VeganMe

thanatos144 said:


> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never said vegans are pot-smoking hippies.  I know a few vegans and I actually sell some of my yogurt to Sikhs, who claim to be Ayurveda vegetarians.  My biggest concern is that many vegans and vegetarians tend to be convinced that their choice is the right choice to save the planet.  Having that self-righteous conviction, many (not all) do proselytize their choice and they also indicate a desire to "persuade" the recalcitrant, come hell or high water.  Of course, the end justifies the means and government/politicians are more than happy to pander to any "special" group if they think that group will work for the politicians' benefit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand this POV. Heck, I used to be annoyed by many vegan attitudes before I became one. Watched Earthlings and BAM! My mind changed overnight. I remember (before I changed) thinking how snobbish, arrogant and annoying vegans were. I've since learned that not all of us are the loud-mouthed, offensive members of PETA. Many are quieter and gentler...I like to consider myself one of those
> 
> And none of us think our choices "save the world." Of course not. We just know that our choices no longer support animal killing or cruelty. (Just one issue of many in the world).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You do know one of the first things they do to brainwash a person is take away protein mostly found in meat right???I think this is one of the reasons the Veggies always fall for the stupidest shit that is put in front of them... Like a happy meal is evil.
Click to expand...


Actually, the meat industry is responsible for putting the myth out there that meat is the only place people can get their protein. Vegans get protein from many sources, including beans, tofu, fake meat and hummus, just to name a few. SOUNDS like crap, but is actually very tasty.


----------



## gallantwarrior

Indofred said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only if you don't look around for the right things.
> 
> Indonesia has, along with a lot of other things, Tempe. (Pro, tempay).
> 100% vegan but all the proteins and so on of meat.
> 100% organic in most cases and tastes great.
> I'm far from a vegan or veggie but I have to like that stuff.
> Tastes great and can be prepared in a wide variety of ways.
> My favourite is thin sliced and fried with a spicy sauce, then served on rice.
> 
> I suggest the OP give it a try.
> Tempeh
> 
> 
> 
> Buddhists have come up with a lot of interesting meat substitutes over the years that aren't all that bad, too.  There's a Chinese dish I have had in the past that is tofu seasoned and cooked to taste like pork.  If I didn't know better, I'd have definitely thought that it was pork.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting you mention Buddhists.
> Hindus have spread a lot of veggie foods as well.
> Here, poverty forces a veggie diet on many but it can be pretty good.
> My first Chinese girlfriend said I was too fat and put me on Chinese traditional food.
> I lost 20kg in two months and felt bloody great.
> There was meat in there but in small quantities.
Click to expand...


What kind of meat?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C_IcUmdELY]Pit bull meat fresh in China- ALWAYS FRESH dog meat hanging - - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Indofred

A mate of mine in the UK went from veggie to vegan.
A Hindu, Indian parented chap is 'normal' in every other way except for is bloody terrible humour and his epic fails as an author, his two books sold out......eventually.

He did teach me a couple of things about veganism.
Try Indian restaurants. You'd be shocked at the number of vegan choices on the menu.
Vegan food can be tasty, not just for rabbits.

Not that I'll be joining the vegan club any time soon but I refuse to knock a harmless lifestyle choice.


----------



## gallantwarrior

thanatos144 said:


> See I like veggies.....Mostly served on the side with a steak but hey if you dont want meat thats fine.....But to say it is  a moral choice like I am somehow this immoral barbarian cause I like a burger with real cow in it is quite annoying.



I'll be the first to say that I didn't get that impression at all.  VM seems to be just pretty excited about having made this choice and has even offered to share her (his) knowledge.  Believe me, I will be one of the first to squawk if I perceive a typical preachy tone...really.


----------



## thanatos144

VeganMe said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I understand this POV. Heck, I used to be annoyed by many vegan attitudes before I became one. Watched Earthlings and BAM! My mind changed overnight. I remember (before I changed) thinking how snobbish, arrogant and annoying vegans were. I've since learned that not all of us are the loud-mouthed, offensive members of PETA. Many are quieter and gentler...I like to consider myself one of those
> 
> And none of us think our choices "save the world." Of course not. We just know that our choices no longer support animal killing or cruelty. (Just one issue of many in the world).
> 
> 
> 
> You do know one of the first things they do to brainwash a person is take away protein mostly found in meat right???I think this is one of the reasons the Veggies always fall for the stupidest shit that is put in front of them... Like a happy meal is evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, the meat industry is responsible for putting the myth out there that meat is the only place people can get their protein. Vegans get protein from many sources, including beans, tofu, fake meat and hummus, just to name a few. SOUNDS like crap, but is actually very tasty.
Click to expand...

No they dont idiot....Meat is just the most plentiful way to get protein....And the most tasty but thanks for proving my point about how the lack of enough protein makes one gullible.


----------



## thanatos144

gallantwarrior said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> See I like veggies.....Mostly served on the side with a steak but hey if you dont want meat thats fine.....But to say it is  a moral choice like I am somehow this immoral barbarian cause I like a burger with real cow in it is quite annoying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be the first to say that I didn't get that impression at all.  VM seems to be just pretty excited about having made this choice and has even offered to share her (his) knowledge.  Believe me, I will be one of the first to squawk if I perceive a typical preachy tone...really.
Click to expand...


Well you see




VeganMe said:


> I recently *became vegan (for ethical reasons)* and realized that it's much easier than I previously anticipated it would be.  So that puts a smile on my face. I'm wondering what those who post here think of veganism.
> 
> And, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask!



The first post says otherwise.


----------



## gallantwarrior

Indofred said:


> A mate of mine in the UK went from veggie to vegan.
> A Hindu, Indian parented chap is 'normal' in every other way except for is bloody terrible humour and his epic fails as an author, his two books sold out......eventually.
> 
> He did teach me a couple of things about veganism.
> Try Indian restaurants. You'd be shocked at the number of vegan choices on the menu.
> Vegan food can be tasty, not just for rabbits.
> 
> Not that I'll be joining the vegan club any time soon but I refuse to knock a harmless lifestyle choice.



Agreed.  I like Indian food, the spices are just about perfect.  But they do prepare foods using meat, as well.  I usually substitute goat for lamb (it's what I have).  I had a Pakistani pal for a while.  I used to love going to his place for dinner.  But you need to be prepared for spicy hot chow.  The whole neighborhood smelled of curry.


----------



## Amelia

VeganMe said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see that you shared how you heard of our site there, or who invited you, either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huh, really? I think I explained it pretty well in my intro post, but...
> 
> No one invited me. I came across this forum when I typed in "Earthlings movie message board" and found an inspiring thread so I wanted to join the site to get in touch with the thread starter.
> 
> Hope that clears it up.
Click to expand...



Ignore her.  She's a loon.  And so mean that you might wonder what cruel vicissitudes of life made her that way, but don't get sucked in.


----------



## Indofred

gallantwarrior said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not yet.  But did you ever think we'd see laws that would force everyone to accept gay marriage?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I refuse to marry a poof; I want to marry a really butch dude.
> Tell me about your forced marriage to a man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ahem!  I did not say forced to marry a gay, did I?  No.  But everyone is being forced to _accept_ gay marriage.
Click to expand...


You said, "But did you ever think we'd see laws that would force everyone to accept gay marriage?"
I simply asked you to tell us about your enforced gay marriage.
Is your gay husband good in bed?
Do you share being the 'man' or do you prefer one role or the other when you roll?

I don't believe anyone is forced to accept a gay marriage as I don't believe anyone is forced to accept a vegan lifestyle.

Vegans exist and that existence is of no harm to anyone except a few fools who force their own blood pressure up because they need to knock the way others want to live.


----------



## VeganMe

@ thanatos - You think I'm an idiot for talking about other sources of protein? Well, you're entitled to your opinion so I won't say anything more about it to you if you don't wish me to. I only want to share with people who want to learn. Like I said, I will never be pushy with someone if they disagree with my lifestyle choice. Live and let live. 

@ gallantwarrior - Thanks for the nice words.  There is a difference between "preachy, hateful vegan" and "calm, laid-back vegan" that I don't think most people recognize. I think when people hear "vegan" they automatically think of the crazies (who happen to be loud and obnoxious) the media always portrays. Sometimes orgs like PETA do a disservice to their own cause, by being so insulting about their methods. (IMO).


----------



## gallantwarrior

thanatos144 said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> See I like veggies.....Mostly served on the side with a steak but hey if you dont want meat thats fine.....But to say it is  a moral choice like I am somehow this immoral barbarian cause I like a burger with real cow in it is quite annoying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be the first to say that I didn't get that impression at all.  VM seems to be just pretty excited about having made this choice and has even offered to share her (his) knowledge.  Believe me, I will be one of the first to squawk if I perceive a typical preachy tone...really.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well you see
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I recently *became vegan (for ethical reasons)* and realized that it's much easier than I previously anticipated it would be.  So that puts a smile on my face. I'm wondering what those who post here think of veganism.
> 
> And, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The first post says otherwise.
Click to expand...


I hunt for ethical reasons (at least in part).  I celebrate the clean, swift death of an animal that I have stalked, killed, and will use to maximum effect.  There is something truly spiritual about watching the light fade from the eyes of a worthy adversary...and I know that my meat has lived its life as it was meant to...


----------



## thanatos144

gallantwarrior said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be the first to say that I didn't get that impression at all.  VM seems to be just pretty excited about having made this choice and has even offered to share her (his) knowledge.  Believe me, I will be one of the first to squawk if I perceive a typical preachy tone...really.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well you see
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I recently *became vegan (for ethical reasons)* and realized that it's much easier than I previously anticipated it would be.  So that puts a smile on my face. I'm wondering what those who post here think of veganism.
> 
> And, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The first post says otherwise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I hunt for ethical reasons (at least in part).  I celebrate the clean, swift death of an animal that I have stalked, killed, and will use to maximum effect.  There is something truly spiritual about watching the light fade from the eyes of a worthy adversary...and I know that my meat has lived its life as it was meant to...
Click to expand...


You want a ethical reason? My family doesnt starve and gets protein they need to survive and grow. Whats makes it unethical?????


----------



## gallantwarrior

Indofred said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> I refuse to marry a poof; I want to marry a really butch dude.
> Tell me about your forced marriage to a man.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahem!  I did not say forced to marry a gay, did I?  No.  But everyone is being forced to _accept_ gay marriage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You said, "But did you ever think we'd see laws that would force everyone to accept gay marriage?"
> I simply asked you to tell us about your enforced gay marriage.
> Is your gay husband good in bed?
> Do you share being the 'man' or do you prefer one role or the other when you roll?
> 
> I don't believe anyone is forced to accept a gay marriage as I don't believe anyone is forced to accept a vegan lifestyle.
> 
> Vegans exist and that existence is of no harm to anyone except a few fools who force their own blood pressure up because they need to knock the way others want to live.
Click to expand...


At least I haven't seen any vegans lobbying to change long accepted mores and influence passing laws to change definitions that need no changing in order to obtain an equal advantage under law.


----------



## Indofred

gallantwarrior said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> A mate of mine in the UK went from veggie to vegan.
> A Hindu, Indian parented chap is 'normal' in every other way except for is bloody terrible humour and his epic fails as an author, his two books sold out......eventually.
> 
> He did teach me a couple of things about veganism.
> Try Indian restaurants. You'd be shocked at the number of vegan choices on the menu.
> Vegan food can be tasty, not just for rabbits.
> 
> Not that I'll be joining the vegan club any time soon but I refuse to knock a harmless lifestyle choice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  I like Indian food, the spices are just about perfect.  But they do prepare foods using meat, as well.  I usually substitute goat for lamb (it's what I have).  I had a Pakistani pal for a while.  I used to love going to his place for dinner.  But you need to be prepared for spicy hot chow.  The whole neighborhood smelled of curry.
Click to expand...


North Indian and Pakistani food is, mostly, amazing.
Ruddy hard to get out here and one of the things I most miss about the UK.


----------



## Amelia

My 10-year-old nephew recently decided to go vegan. 

I think his parents eat fish and eggs but he decided to take it further.



Edit:  Maybe it was just "vegetarian" that he decided to go.  Is that different from "vegan"?  *blushing that I don't know*


----------



## bobcollum

How the hell does a 10 year old even have the interest in becoming a vegan?


----------



## Indofred

thanatos144 said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well you see
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first post says otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hunt for ethical reasons (at least in part).  I celebrate the clean, swift death of an animal that I have stalked, killed, and will use to maximum effect.  There is something truly spiritual about watching the light fade from the eyes of a worthy adversary...and I know that my meat has lived its life as it was meant to...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You want a ethical reason? My family doesnt starve and gets protein they need to survive and grow. Whats makes it unethical?????
Click to expand...


That depends on your ethics,
Some people believe it's wrong to harm animals.
Given it makes shit all difference to you or anyone else, why do you feel the need to moan about it?


----------



## gallantwarrior

VeganMe said:


> @ thanatos - You think I'm an idiot for talking about other sources of protein? Well, you're entitled to your opinion so I won't say anything more about it to you if you don't wish me to. I only want to share with people who want to learn. Like I said, I will never be pushy with someone if they disagree with my lifestyle choice. Live and let live.
> 
> @ gallantwarrior - Thanks for the nice words.  There is a difference between "preachy, hateful vegan" and "calm, laid-back vegan" that I don't think most people recognize. I think when people hear "vegan" they automatically think of the crazies (who happen to be loud and obnoxious) the media always portrays. Sometimes orgs like PETA do a disservice to their own cause, by being so insulting about their methods. (IMO).



PETA represents a group of arrogant assholes who want things their way, now.  No exceptions.  As stated, I am a hunter.  I have my reasons.  Given their way, the people of PETA would eliminate what is basically part of my spiritual relationship with the world I live in.  The relationship between vegans/vegetarians/PETA is in some way like one of the questions on the GREs with those intersecting circles...all PETA members are vegans, but all vegans are not PETA members.


----------



## VeganMe

@ Amelia - Good for him! I just hope he has researched being a healthy vegan. It's easy to become malnourished if he doesn't know what foods to go for and only eats fruits + veggies. Please let him know that there is a vegan on the site you visit who would be willing to help him out (if he has any questions about food).


----------



## Indofred

bobcollum said:


> How the hell does a 10 year old even have the interest in becoming a vegan?



Some 10 year old kids are brighter than many adults.
I have a couple of 9 year old kids in school who can make valid points on a wide variety of social subjects.
A lot better than many posters on here can manage.


----------



## VeganMe

gallantwarrior said:


> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> @ thanatos - You think I'm an idiot for talking about other sources of protein? Well, you're entitled to your opinion so I won't say anything more about it to you if you don't wish me to. I only want to share with people who want to learn. Like I said, I will never be pushy with someone if they disagree with my lifestyle choice. Live and let live.
> 
> @ gallantwarrior - Thanks for the nice words.  There is a difference between "preachy, hateful vegan" and "calm, laid-back vegan" that I don't think most people recognize. I think when people hear "vegan" they automatically think of the crazies (who happen to be loud and obnoxious) the media always portrays. Sometimes orgs like PETA do a disservice to their own cause, by being so insulting about their methods. (IMO).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PETA represents a group of arrogant assholes who want things their way, now.  No exceptions.  As stated, I am a hunter.  I have my reasons.  Given their way, the people of PETA would eliminate what is basically part of my spiritual relationship with the world I live in.  The relationship between vegans/vegetarians/PETA is in some way like one of the questions on the GREs with those intersecting circles...all PETA members are vegans, but all vegans are not PETA members.
Click to expand...


While I don't like anything being killed, HUNTING is ten million times more humane than buying meat in a supermarket (that was raised, tortured and slaughtered in a disgusting factory farm).

I have much more respect for a hunter who goes for a swift and painless kill (via bullet) than someone who works in a factory farm and inhumanely treats animals before killing them. Props to you for that.


----------



## gallantwarrior

thanatos144 said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well you see
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first post says otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hunt for ethical reasons (at least in part).  I celebrate the clean, swift death of an animal that I have stalked, killed, and will use to maximum effect.  There is something truly spiritual about watching the light fade from the eyes of a worthy adversary...and I know that my meat has lived its life as it was meant to...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You want a ethical reason? My family doesnt starve and gets protein they need to survive and grow. Whats makes it unethical?????
Click to expand...


Dude, read me right...I have no problem with hunting to feed your family.  There is nothing unethical about hunting to feed yourself and your own.


----------



## thanatos144

Indofred said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hunt for ethical reasons (at least in part).  I celebrate the clean, swift death of an animal that I have stalked, killed, and will use to maximum effect.  There is something truly spiritual about watching the light fade from the eyes of a worthy adversary...and I know that my meat has lived its life as it was meant to...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You want a ethical reason? My family doesnt starve and gets protein they need to survive and grow. Whats makes it unethical?????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That depends on your ethics,
> Some people believe it's wrong to harm animals.
> Given it makes shit all difference to you or anyone else, why do you feel the need to moan about it?
Click to expand...

They can believe all they want but to say they are Ethical is saying cause I eat meat I am not and dammit I find that arrogance despicable.


----------



## gallantwarrior

Indofred said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> A mate of mine in the UK went from veggie to vegan.
> A Hindu, Indian parented chap is 'normal' in every other way except for is bloody terrible humour and his epic fails as an author, his two books sold out......eventually.
> 
> He did teach me a couple of things about veganism.
> Try Indian restaurants. You'd be shocked at the number of vegan choices on the menu.
> Vegan food can be tasty, not just for rabbits.
> 
> Not that I'll be joining the vegan club any time soon but I refuse to knock a harmless lifestyle choice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  I like Indian food, the spices are just about perfect.  But they do prepare foods using meat, as well.  I usually substitute goat for lamb (it's what I have).  I had a Pakistani pal for a while.  I used to love going to his place for dinner.  But you need to be prepared for spicy hot chow.  The whole neighborhood smelled of curry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> North Indian and Pakistani food is, mostly, amazing.
> Ruddy hard to get out here and one of the things I most miss about the UK.
Click to expand...


It's impossible to find around here, unless you make it yourself.


----------



## Amelia

bobcollum said:


> How the hell does a 10 year old even have the interest in becoming a vegan?





My nephew's family was halfway there - no beef, pork or chicken if I understand correctly.  They have six kids, some with dietary restrictions because of allergies, so they do a lot of fresh food and very little processed food.  And anyway, that was his big announcement this summer.  


But p.s. after I wrote that I realized that he might only have said "vegetarian" ... and I don't know if that's the same as vegan.


----------



## VeganMe

@ Amelia - nope. Vegetarians and vegans are different. Vegetarians can eat everything but meat. And vegans don't eat anything with animal products, period. (Including dairy, honey and eggs).


----------



## gallantwarrior

bobcollum said:


> How the hell does a 10 year old even have the interest in becoming a vegan?



They learn about stuff like that in school, nowadays.


----------



## bobcollum

Amelia said:


> bobcollum said:
> 
> 
> 
> How the hell does a 10 year old even have the interest in becoming a vegan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My nephew's *family was halfway there* - no beef, pork or chicken if I understand correctly.  They have six kids, some with dietary restrictions because of allergies, so they do a lot of fresh food and very little processed food.  And anyway, that was his big announcement this summer.
> 
> 
> But p.s. after I wrote that I realized that he might only have said "vegetarian" ... and I don't know if that's the same as vegan.
Click to expand...


That makes more sense.


----------



## Liability

gallantwarrior said:


> bobcollum said:
> 
> 
> 
> How the hell does a 10 year old even have the interest in becoming a vegan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They learn about stuff like that in school, nowadays.
Click to expand...


Fact.  Like when they are taught at tender young ages to revere the current President, Barack Husein Obama, Mmmm Mmmmm Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!


----------



## PredFan

Breakfast today: Pork sausage and biscuits with gravy

Lunch: Chili Con Carne

Dinner: Big fat pulled pork sandwich


----------



## boedicca

VeganMe said:


> I recently became vegan (for ethical reasons) and realized that it's much easier than I previously anticipated it would be.  So that puts a smile on my face. I'm wondering what those who post here think of veganism.
> 
> And, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask!





Just wait until your skin and hair go bad, and get back to us.  Oh, and your fingernails flake off...that's a really good side effect, too.


----------



## boedicca

PredFan said:


> Breakfast today: Pork sausage and biscuits with gravy
> 
> Lunch: Chili Con Carne
> 
> Dinner: Big fat pulled pork sandwich




We're going to a chi-chi local restaurant tonight that features bone marrow.  It's fabulous.


----------



## koshergrl

OMG! That's revolting!


----------



## gallantwarrior

VeganMe said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> @ thanatos - You think I'm an idiot for talking about other sources of protein? Well, you're entitled to your opinion so I won't say anything more about it to you if you don't wish me to. I only want to share with people who want to learn. Like I said, I will never be pushy with someone if they disagree with my lifestyle choice. Live and let live.
> 
> @ gallantwarrior - Thanks for the nice words.  There is a difference between "preachy, hateful vegan" and "calm, laid-back vegan" that I don't think most people recognize. I think when people hear "vegan" they automatically think of the crazies (who happen to be loud and obnoxious) the media always portrays. Sometimes orgs like PETA do a disservice to their own cause, by being so insulting about their methods. (IMO).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PETA represents a group of arrogant assholes who want things their way, now.  No exceptions.  As stated, I am a hunter.  I have my reasons.  Given their way, the people of PETA would eliminate what is basically part of my spiritual relationship with the world I live in.  The relationship between vegans/vegetarians/PETA is in some way like one of the questions on the GREs with those intersecting circles...all PETA members are vegans, but all vegans are not PETA members.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While I don't like anything being killed, HUNTING is ten million times more humane than buying meat in a supermarket (that was raised, tortured and slaughtered in a disgusting factory farm).
> 
> I have much more respect for a hunter who goes for a swift and painless kill (via bullet) than someone who works in a factory farm and inhumanely treats animals before killing them. Props to you for that.
Click to expand...


An even better, cleaner kill is when you use archery tackle.  Most of the time, the animals don't even know what hit them.  There's also much less wasted meat when you use bow and arrow.  As for the animals I raise, they also never know what hit them.  I usually present them with a dish of grain and then pop them with a .22.  They are dead before they hit the ground and die happy with a mouthful of goodies.


----------



## bobcollum

gallantwarrior said:


> bobcollum said:
> 
> 
> 
> How the hell does a 10 year old even have the interest in becoming a vegan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They learn about stuff like that in school, nowadays.
Click to expand...


Still, I can't imagine myself as a 10 year old giving two shits about that kind of thing.


----------



## PredFan

boedicca said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Breakfast today: Pork sausage and biscuits with gravy
> 
> Lunch: Chili Con Carne
> 
> Dinner: Big fat pulled pork sandwich
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We're going to a chi-chi local restaurant tonight that features bone marrow.  It's fabulous.
Click to expand...


Awesome! I've never tried that.


----------



## gallantwarrior

Liability said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bobcollum said:
> 
> 
> 
> How the hell does a 10 year old even have the interest in becoming a vegan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They learn about stuff like that in school, nowadays.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fact.  Like when they are taught at tender young ages to revere the current President, Barack Husein Obama, Mmmm Mmmmm Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
Click to expand...


Or when they learn what "fisting" is in the third grade, or how to have safe sex with their dog...Shit, my daughter came home (6th grade) and told me they had been applying condoms to bananas.  The real shame was, the class couldn't spell either word.


----------



## Liability

Pred:

"I" before "E", except after "C"? Weird.  

You forgot, "... except when sounded like 'neighbor' or 'weigh.'"

And then it's not so weird.


----------



## Indofred

bobcollum said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bobcollum said:
> 
> 
> 
> How the hell does a 10 year old even have the interest in becoming a vegan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They learn about stuff like that in school, nowadays.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Still, I can't imagine myself as a 10 year old giving two shits about that kind of thing.
Click to expand...


Is that your fault for having poor imagination?


----------



## boedicca

koshergrl said:


> OMG! That's revolting!




Yay!  More roasted bone marrow for Meeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## bobcollum

Indofred said:


> bobcollum said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> They learn about stuff like that in school, nowadays.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still, I can't imagine myself as a 10 year old giving two shits about that kind of thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is that your fault for having poor imagination?
Click to expand...




Good one.


----------



## gallantwarrior

bobcollum said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bobcollum said:
> 
> 
> 
> How the hell does a 10 year old even have the interest in becoming a vegan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They learn about stuff like that in school, nowadays.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Still, I can't imagine myself as a 10 year old giving two shits about that kind of thing.
Click to expand...


Hell, when I was 10, we were more concerned with whether they would have meat loaf or stuffed peppers for lunch.  Or whether we could convince  our parents to spring the .50 to buy lunch instead of schlepping a PB&J and an apple...


----------



## boedicca

PredFan said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Breakfast today: Pork sausage and biscuits with gravy
> 
> Lunch: Chili Con Carne
> 
> Dinner: Big fat pulled pork sandwich
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We're going to a chi-chi local restaurant tonight that features bone marrow.  It's fabulous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Awesome! I've never tried that.
Click to expand...


It's been a foodie trend in the Bay Area for the past couple of years.

Up in Yountville, Bistro Jeanty does wonderful roasted bone marrow as well.  It's rather primal to dine on such.


----------



## boedicca

gallantwarrior said:


> bobcollum said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> They learn about stuff like that in school, nowadays.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still, I can't imagine myself as a 10 year old giving two shits about that kind of thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hell, when I was 10, we were more concerned with whether they would have meat loaf or stuffed peppers for lunch.  Or whether we could convince  our parents to spring the .50 to buy lunch instead of schlepping a PB&J and an apple...
Click to expand...



We looked forward to Chocolate Milk day in the cateria.


----------



## Amelia

VeganMe said:


> @ Amelia - nope. Vegetarians and vegans are different. Vegetarians can eat everything but meat. And vegans don't eat anything with animal products, period. (Including dairy, honey and eggs).





Thanks for setting me straight on that.  I think probably he just said vegetarian.


----------



## gallantwarrior

boedicca said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bobcollum said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still, I can't imagine myself as a 10 year old giving two shits about that kind of thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hell, when I was 10, we were more concerned with whether they would have meat loaf or stuffed peppers for lunch.  Or whether we could convince  our parents to spring the .50 to buy lunch instead of schlepping a PB&J and an apple...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> We looked forward to Chocolate Milk day in the cateria.
Click to expand...


Oooh, that too.  It's been a long time.


----------



## thanatos144

Amelia said:


> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> @ Amelia - nope. Vegetarians and vegans are different. Vegetarians can eat everything but meat. And vegans don't eat anything with animal products, period. (Including dairy, honey and eggs).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for setting me straight on that.  I think probably he just said vegetarian.
Click to expand...


The real truth is vegetarians might not eat meat cause they just dont want to where as Vegans dont cause they feel morally Superior to everyone.


----------



## thanatos144

gallantwarrior said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hell, when I was 10, we were more concerned with whether they would have meat loaf or stuffed peppers for lunch.  Or whether we could convince  our parents to spring the .50 to buy lunch instead of schlepping a PB&J and an apple...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We looked forward to Chocolate Milk day in the cateria.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oooh, that too.  It's been a long time.
Click to expand...


Hey I buy Quickchocolate milk mix by the pound LOL


----------



## Amelia

gallantwarrior said:


> bobcollum said:
> 
> 
> 
> How the hell does a 10 year old even have the interest in becoming a vegan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They learn about stuff like that in school, nowadays.
Click to expand...



Funny thing, my nephew is home-schooled.  I won't ask my brother about his politics because I suspect he voted for Obama and I don't want to start anything. lol.   But they're home-schooling Mormons - the kids are aged 18 months to 10 years - and the oldest went vegan and/or vegetarian.  

Fun family.


----------



## PredFan

I mentioned this in another thread a while back. 
One of my hobbies is eating exotic foods. And by "foods" I mean meats.
The animals I've eaten in my lifetime:

1. Monkey
2. Rattlesnake
3. Wild pig
3. Buffalo
4. Elk
5. Reindeer
6. Squirrel
7. Turtle
8. Camel
9. Lion
10. Zebra
11. Horse
12. Pigeon (eggs)
13. Goose
14. Meal worms
15. Shark
16. Possum
17. Ostrich
18. Kangaroo
19. Iguana

My goal is to eat these animals as well before I take the dirt nap: whale, grasshopper, dog, and bear. Of course, I'll keep an ear and my mind open for whatever oddity comes along.


----------



## Liability

PredFan said:


> I mentioned this in another thread a while back.
> One of my hobbies is eating exotic foods. And by "foods" I mean meats.
> The animals I've earten in my lifetime:
> 
> 1. Monkey
> 2. Rattlesnake
> 3. Wild pig
> 3. Buffalo
> 4. Elk
> 5. Reindeer
> 6. Squirrel
> 7. Turtle
> 8. Camel
> 9. Lion
> 10. Zebra
> 11. Horse
> 12. Pigeon (eggs)
> 13. Goose
> 14. Meal worms
> 15. Shark
> 16. Possum
> 17. Ostrich
> 18. Kangaroo
> 19. Iguana
> 
> My goal is to eat these animals as well before I take the dirt nap: whale, grasshopper, dog, and bear. Of course, I'll keep an ear and my mind open for whatever oddity comes along.



No cow?

No chicken?

No fishies?


----------



## boedicca

Horrors!  No lamb chops?


----------



## Liability

More and moar information about breatharianism:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-f...s-are-the-most-moral-of-all-moral-humans.html


----------



## Indofred

A shop sells cobra meat here, in BSD, Tangerang, Jakarta.


----------



## koshergrl

Amelia said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bobcollum said:
> 
> 
> 
> How the hell does a 10 year old even have the interest in becoming a vegan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They learn about stuff like that in school, nowadays.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Funny thing, my nephew is home-schooled.  I won't ask my brother about his politics because I suspect he voted for Obama and I don't want to start anything. lol.   But they're home-schooling Mormons - the kids are aged 18 months to 10 years - and the oldest went vegan and/or vegetarian.
> 
> Fun family.
Click to expand...


I can't imagine home-schooling Mormons voting for Obama. He is pretty much adamantly opposed to everything that Mormons believe in.


----------



## Amelia

koshergrl said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> They learn about stuff like that in school, nowadays.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny thing, my nephew is home-schooled.  I won't ask my brother about his politics because I suspect he voted for Obama and I don't want to start anything. lol.   But they're home-schooling Mormons - the kids are aged 18 months to 10 years - and the oldest went vegan and/or vegetarian.
> 
> Fun family.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can't imagine home-schooling Mormons voting for Obama. He is pretty much adamantly opposed to everything that Mormons believe in.
Click to expand...



Harry Reid favors Obama.  And I've met Mormon Democrats in Utah and Wisconsin.  It happens.   I just get the feeling that my brother is a liberal.  He's Generation X and makes his living with computers but has a fine arts background.  

He's a renaissance guy.  And based on how he spoke about Bush the last time we spoke politics, I would not be surprised if he did support Obama.

But I may never know.  Just not going there.


----------



## Crackerjack

Liability said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bobcollum said:
> 
> 
> 
> How the hell does a 10 year old even have the interest in becoming a vegan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They learn about stuff like that in school, nowadays.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fact.  Like when they are taught at tender young ages to revere the current President, Barack Husein Obama, Mmmm Mmmmm Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
Click to expand...

It's alarming.  My kid came back from pre-K a few years ago telling me some story about how she sat down "criss-cross applesauce" and I had to stop her to have her explain that.  It apparently is the PC way to say "Indian style."

All I could do is shake my head ...


----------



## gallantwarrior

Amelia said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bobcollum said:
> 
> 
> 
> How the hell does a 10 year old even have the interest in becoming a vegan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They learn about stuff like that in school, nowadays.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Funny thing, my nephew is home-schooled.  I won't ask my brother about his politics because I suspect he voted for Obama and I don't want to start anything. lol.   But they're home-schooling Mormons - the kids are aged 18 months to 10 years - and the oldest went vegan and/or vegetarian.
> 
> Fun family.
Click to expand...


I home schooled my daughter her first three years of high school.  The only class she attended was JROTC (her choice).  I did it in part because of the banana-condom thing, and more because she was so bored in class.  I was amazed at how much more she learned at home, and how much I remembered!  She aced her GED first try.


----------



## gallantwarrior

PredFan said:


> I mentioned this in another thread a while back.
> One of my hobbies is eating exotic foods. And by "foods" I mean meats.
> The animals I've eaten in my lifetime:
> 
> 1. Monkey
> 2. Rattlesnake
> 3. Wild pig
> 3. Buffalo
> 4. Elk
> 5. Reindeer
> 6. Squirrel
> 7. Turtle
> 8. Camel
> 9. Lion
> 10. Zebra
> 11. Horse
> 12. Pigeon (eggs)
> 13. Goose
> 14. Meal worms
> 15. Shark
> 16. Possum
> 17. Ostrich
> 18. Kangaroo
> 19. Iguana
> 
> My goal is to eat these animals as well before I take the dirt nap: whale, grasshopper, dog, and bear. Of course, I'll keep an ear and my mind open for whatever oddity comes along.



While I haven't eaten zebra, I have eaten whale, grasshopper, dog, and bear.  Bear and moose are the two animals most likely to find their way into my freezer.  OK, I took a pass on the meal worms, too.


----------



## Crackerjack

gallantwarrior said:


> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> PETA represents a group of arrogant assholes who want things their way, now.  No exceptions.  As stated, I am a hunter.  I have my reasons.  Given their way, the people of PETA would eliminate what is basically part of my spiritual relationship with the world I live in.  The relationship between vegans/vegetarians/PETA is in some way like one of the questions on the GREs with those intersecting circles...all PETA members are vegans, but all vegans are not PETA members.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I don't like anything being killed, HUNTING is ten million times more humane than buying meat in a supermarket (that was raised, tortured and slaughtered in a disgusting factory farm).
> 
> I have much more respect for a hunter who goes for a swift and painless kill (via bullet) than someone who works in a factory farm and inhumanely treats animals before killing them. Props to you for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An even better, cleaner kill is when you use archery tackle.  Most of the time, the animals don't even know what hit them.  There's also much less wasted meat when you use bow and arrow.  As for the animals I raise, they also never know what hit them.  I usually present them with a dish of grain and then pop them with a .22.  They are dead before they hit the ground and die happy with a mouthful of goodies.
Click to expand...

You might enjoy this book:

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Backyard-Deer-Hunting-Converting-Pennies/dp/1438984189/ref=wl_it_dp_o_piT1_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=KU15E6YVC8I3&coliid=IR5EXL0VMFELQ]Amazon.com: Backyard Deer Hunting: Converting Deer to Dinner for Pennies per Pound (9781438984186): Wm. Hovey Smith: Books[/ame]


----------



## koshergrl

My kids went from a tiny charter school, where they attended a mixed-grade class (grades 1-4). It's really hard to gauge where they are academically when they're in the only class...but when I moved and they went into the school here they were leaps and bounds ahead of the other kids, particularly in math, but in reading too.


----------



## gallantwarrior

Crackerjack said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> While I don't like anything being killed, HUNTING is ten million times more humane than buying meat in a supermarket (that was raised, tortured and slaughtered in a disgusting factory farm).
> 
> I have much more respect for a hunter who goes for a swift and painless kill (via bullet) than someone who works in a factory farm and inhumanely treats animals before killing them. Props to you for that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An even better, cleaner kill is when you use archery tackle.  Most of the time, the animals don't even know what hit them.  There's also much less wasted meat when you use bow and arrow.  As for the animals I raise, they also never know what hit them.  I usually present them with a dish of grain and then pop them with a .22.  They are dead before they hit the ground and die happy with a mouthful of goodies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You might enjoy this book:
> 
> [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Backyard-Deer-Hunting-Converting-Pennies/dp/1438984189/ref=wl_it_dp_o_piT1_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=KU15E6YVC8I3&coliid=IR5EXL0VMFELQ]Amazon.com: Backyard Deer Hunting: Converting Deer to Dinner for Pennies per Pound (9781438984186): Wm. Hovey Smith: Books[/ame]
Click to expand...


I'll look into it, but we don't have deer on the mainland in Alaska.  Moose are the closest thing we've got, and one of those is plenty.  I've actually given up actively hunting until my daughter and granddaughters get back in state.  One moose would last me at least five years, and that's if I entertain a LOT.  Hell, it takes me two weeks to process one once I have it down.  Funny thing, all your friends are all into "I'll come help, just let me know" until you knock one of those monsters down.  1200 lbs on the hoof makes for quite a freezer pack...


----------



## gallantwarrior

koshergrl said:


> My kids went from a tiny charter school, where they attended a mixed-grade class (grades 1-4). It's really hard to gauge where they are academically when they're in the only class...but when I moved and they went into the school here they were leaps and bounds ahead of the other kids, particularly in math, but in reading too.



The cool thing about home-schooling in Alaska is, it isn't all that uncommon.  You can enroll in a state funded program and you have control about how much your child learns, and just which subjects they learn about. It's really kind of nice.  Since I work grave shift, I was able to attend many of my daughter's morning classes and experience first hand just how ridiculous classes were.  The retired Gunny who lead the JROTC though, he was the "tops".  This high school had over 250 students enrolled in JROTC...that's how good the program was.


----------



## IGetItAlready

My wife's cousin and a friend of his were traveling around getting high and "discovering themselves" several years ago and ended up "crashing" in our Sacramento apartment for a while. 
Don't know if they considered themselves Vegans or Vegetarians but the stuff they would cook and eat in my home reeked worse than the crap the Russian family downstairs was always cooking. 
Unfortunately, I liked the Russians much more than these guys...That whole thing didn't last long. 
Last I knew they were headed to Anaheim for a Dead show. That was about 18 years ago. 

As far as what I think, weak and unhealthy are the two words that first pop into my head when someone says they're making a conscious decision to eat an unnatural diet.


----------



## Liability

Crackerjack said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> They learn about stuff like that in school, nowadays.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fact.  Like when they are taught at tender young ages to revere the current President, Barack Husein Obama, Mmmm Mmmmm Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's alarming.  My kid came back from pre-K a few years ago telling me some story about how she sat down "criss-cross applesauce" and I had to stop her to have her explain that.  It apparently is the PC way to say "Indian style."
> 
> All I could do is shake my head ...
Click to expand...


Criss Cross?  Didn't he write some pretty bad music in the 80's?


----------



## Crackerjack

gallantwarrior said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> An even better, cleaner kill is when you use archery tackle.  Most of the time, the animals don't even know what hit them.  There's also much less wasted meat when you use bow and arrow.  As for the animals I raise, they also never know what hit them.  I usually present them with a dish of grain and then pop them with a .22.  They are dead before they hit the ground and die happy with a mouthful of goodies.
> 
> 
> 
> You might enjoy this book:
> 
> [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Backyard-Deer-Hunting-Converting-Pennies/dp/1438984189/ref=wl_it_dp_o_piT1_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=KU15E6YVC8I3&coliid=IR5EXL0VMFELQ]Amazon.com: Backyard Deer Hunting: Converting Deer to Dinner for Pennies per Pound (9781438984186): Wm. Hovey Smith: Books[/ame]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll look into it, but we don't have deer on the mainland in Alaska.  Moose are the closest thing we've got, and one of those is plenty.  I've actually given up actively hunting until my daughter and granddaughters get back in state.  One moose would last me at least five years, and that's if I entertain a LOT.  Hell, it takes me two weeks to process one once I have it down.  Funny thing, all your friends are all into "I'll come help, just let me know" until you knock one of those monsters down.  1200 lbs on the hoof makes for quite a freezer pack...
Click to expand...

Ah, okay.  I didn't know you were in Alaska.


----------



## Crackerjack

Liability said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fact.  Like when they are taught at tender young ages to revere the current President, Barack Husein Obama, Mmmm Mmmmm Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
> 
> 
> 
> It's alarming.  My kid came back from pre-K a few years ago telling me some story about how she sat down "criss-cross applesauce" and I had to stop her to have her explain that.  It apparently is the PC way to say "Indian style."
> 
> All I could do is shake my head ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Criss Cross?  Didn't he write some pretty bad music in the 80's?
Click to expand...

Thank God she's too young to remember that.


----------



## Desperado

Hey it is not for me, but to each his own.
Good luck with it.


----------



## hjmick

What do I think of them?

I don't.


----------



## Immanuel

VeganMe said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since I really do not like most kinds of vegetables cooked, I would starve as a vegan.
> 
> Probably a great way for me to go on a crash diet.
> 
> Immie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I'm glad you said that.  (I'm not a veggie fan either!) It's a common misconception that "all vegans eat are vegetables and fruits." There are plenty who do eat that way. They like to call themselves "raw foodists" or "fructarians."
> 
> I personally couldn't eat that way either, I'd be too hungry and weak. Other vegans (who aren't talked about as much because our diets aren't extreme) eat everything the rest of the population eats, just with vegan ingredients.
> 
> We can have fake meat, cheese pizza, macaroni, PB&J sandwiches, mexican, ice cream, cakes and cookies, and just about any other "normal" food you can think of. The only difference is they are made with no animal products - but that's it.
Click to expand...


Hehe,  

FYI: fake meat isn't meat and it doesn't taste like meat either!  Saying it does is like saying that diet soda doesn't have an after taste.  Everyone knows when you say it, you are full of B-O-L-O-G-N-A!

Immie


----------



## Amelia

Immanuel said:


> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since I really do not like most kinds of vegetables cooked, I would starve as a vegan.
> 
> Probably a great way for me to go on a crash diet.
> 
> Immie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I'm glad you said that.  (I'm not a veggie fan either!) It's a common misconception that "all vegans eat are vegetables and fruits." There are plenty who do eat that way. They like to call themselves "raw foodists" or "fructarians."
> 
> I personally couldn't eat that way either, I'd be too hungry and weak. Other vegans (who aren't talked about as much because our diets aren't extreme) eat everything the rest of the population eats, just with vegan ingredients.
> 
> We can have fake meat, cheese pizza, macaroni, PB&J sandwiches, mexican, ice cream, cakes and cookies, and just about any other "normal" food you can think of. The only difference is they are made with no animal products - but that's it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hehe,
> 
> FYI: fake meat isn't meat and it doesn't taste like meat either!  Saying it does is like saying that diet soda doesn't have an after taste.  Everyone knows when you say it, you are full of B-O-L-O-G-N-A!
> 
> Immie
Click to expand...




But you can adjust.  I like diet sodas better than regular sodas now.





'cept when it's time for floats


----------



## VeganMe

Immanuel said:


> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since I really do not like most kinds of vegetables cooked, I would starve as a vegan.
> 
> Probably a great way for me to go on a crash diet.
> 
> Immie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I'm glad you said that.  (I'm not a veggie fan either!) It's a common misconception that "all vegans eat are vegetables and fruits." There are plenty who do eat that way. They like to call themselves "raw foodists" or "fructarians."
> 
> I personally couldn't eat that way either, I'd be too hungry and weak. Other vegans (who aren't talked about as much because our diets aren't extreme) eat everything the rest of the population eats, just with vegan ingredients.
> 
> We can have fake meat, cheese pizza, macaroni, PB&J sandwiches, mexican, ice cream, cakes and cookies, and just about any other "normal" food you can think of. The only difference is they are made with no animal products - but that's it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hehe,
> 
> FYI: fake meat isn't meat and it doesn't taste like meat either!  Saying it does is like saying that diet soda doesn't have an after taste.  Everyone knows when you say it, you are full of B-O-L-O-G-N-A!
> 
> Immie
Click to expand...


I never said fake meat tasted like real meat. It doesn't but that doesn't mean it isn't tasty. Last night I had fake ribs with BBQ sauce and it was soooo good! Really want to have it again.

Also, to those who are surprised about a 10-year-old being interested in veganism - it all depends on how you were raised and what you were aware of. I first went vegan at age 11 but quickly gave it up because I knew nothing about it and missed the taste of MILK chocolate (for birthday cakes and easter eggs). But now that I'm an adult, it's much easier.


----------



## Noomi

VeganMe said:


> I recently became vegan (for ethical reasons) and realized that it's much easier than I previously anticipated it would be.  So that puts a smile on my face. I'm wondering what those who post here think of veganism.
> 
> And, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask!



Pale, pasty faced people who live on vitamins and who need to eat a nice, juicy steak.


----------



## Noomi

So VeganMe, explain this...

You say you eat no animal products at all. So its 'cruel' to keep a few chickens and eat the eggs they produce? Why? Its not like the chook is attached to the egg, is it?
Why is it wrong to drink the milk from a cow? Cows have to be milked, why throw perfectly good milk away? The cow won't suffer any emotional trauma from seeing its milk drunk, will it?


----------



## Cowman

I find many(not all) vegans to be annoyingly militant about their eating lifestyle.


----------



## VeganMe

Noomi - watching the movie "Earthlings" will tell you everything you wish to know about the inhumane conditions farm animals are kept in. Videos are worth a thousand words, but let me answer your question as best I can:

About chickens - Many farms have what is known as "battery cages" where several birds are crammed into such tight quarters that they can't even turn around or spread their wings. These birds live in cramped, filthy quarters for the majority of their lives. (Eggs from so-called cage-free hens are tricky. Stores are permitted to label them "cage-free" even if they let the hens out for only a brief time and then cram them back into cages - which is why I don't trust such misguiding labels).

Babies (chicks) are debeaked to prevent pecking. But the nerve endings in a chicken's beak are as sensitive to them as our tongue is to us, so cutting the ends off = cutting the end of a human's tongue off. It is extremely painful to them. (You can tell as they squawk in pain from this uniform procedure). When killed, chickens are often lined up (upside down) and their throats slit so they bleed out. It is a long and excruciating process to bleed until death. Many chickens choke to death on their own blood as they flap their wings in agony.

As for dairy cows, the unethical killing practice is similar. It's considered most cost-effective to kill them by slashing their throat open, letting the animal writhe in pain and choke on its own blood, as it may take over half an hour for it to finally die a very slow and painful death. Cows too can be kept in areas so small, they can't turn around and barely can move. Sometimes, before a cow is dead, butchers start cutting off bits of their bodies. I have heard the cows moo with intense pain as legs and hooves are hacked off before death. 

Milk cows are kept pregnant their whole lives, their udders pumped with hormones and they are often force-fed unnatural foods to fatten them up. Baby cows (especially bulls - as males are considered worthless from birth) are taken from the mothers almost instantly and chained by their necks in small stalls away from the mother. They cry for eachother, and the babies' throats are slashed as well. They are only allowed to live (in horrible conditions) for 4 short months. (This becomes veal)...it is truly sickening to see.

Finally, after being kept pregnant her whole life, and having many babies taken from her, the mother milk cow becomes exhausted. When her milk dries up she too is deemed "worthless" by the farm. So she is to be slaughtered for meat, in the same (cost-effective) and sickly ways as described earlier.

By not buying dairy products (milk/cheese) I am not supporting the inhumane keeping/killing of cows and by not buying eggs I am not supporting the inhumane keeping/killing of chickens. People can make a difference with their dollar, and vegetarians often think by not buying meat, they are avoiding animal cruelty which is sadly not true. Buying eggs and milk or cheese supports the dairy industry, and these awful conditions for the animals.

Hope I have given a useful answer to you.


----------



## Cowman

Noomi said:


> So VeganMe, explain this...
> 
> You say you eat no animal products at all. So its 'cruel' to keep a few chickens and eat the eggs they produce? Why? Its not like the chook is attached to the egg, is it?
> Why is it wrong to drink the milk from a cow? Cows have to be milked, why throw perfectly good milk away? The cow won't suffer any emotional trauma from seeing its milk drunk, will it?



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtSIU5BCOYw]Lely: Happy Cows, Good Milk - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Emma

VeganMe said:


> I recently became vegan (for ethical reasons) and realized that it's much easier than I previously anticipated it would be.  So that puts a smile on my face. I'm wondering what those who post here think of veganism.
> 
> And, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask!



I actually prefer vegetarian food. I will eat chicken or fish sometimes (less than 1-2 times a week), but don't much like red meat. Pork, hardly ever. Occasionally I get a craving for steak ... but after a few bites, I'm done. I don't think I could go strictly vegan, as I do like cheese and yogart, etc.


----------



## Noomi

Okay, I get the part about not actually buying milk and eggs, but what about eating the eggs and drinking the milk of a chicken or cow you have actually raised? Is that okay?


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Do you wear leather shoes?   Have leather car interior?  Have any leather products at all?



Daughter was vegan for a while (now will eat fish and eggs) because of my grandson's severe allergies when he was a baby. She did it right, with the exception of honey. She said she didn't buy into the "exploitation of bees" crap LOL.


----------



## VeganMe

@ Noomi - if a person drinks the milk of a TRULY happy cow they have raised themselves (where the cow is allowed to roam across many green acres of land), not kept pregnant their whole lives and not treated badly, then I see no problem with drinking milk.

Same goes for chickens with eggs. If they are not caged, debeaked, or treated horribly, keeping chickens for eggs is also not an issue. But the problem with stores we shop in is that the majority of products (dairy and eggs) come from factory farms. They are the largest suppliers and there is a great demand, so they pump out the products as quickly as possible. Caring little for their animals welfare in the process.


----------



## Emma

[youtube]hVrIyEu6h_E[/youtube]
_
the Death Melon!!!_

lol


----------



## Cowman

Emma said:


> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I recently became vegan (for ethical reasons) and realized that it's much easier than I previously anticipated it would be.  So that puts a smile on my face. I'm wondering what those who post here think of veganism.
> 
> And, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I actually prefer vegetarian food. I will eat chicken or fish sometimes (less than 1-2 times a week), but don't much like red meat. Pork, hardly ever. Occasionally I get a craving for steak ... but after a few bites, I'm done. I don't think I could go strictly vegan, as I do like cheese and yogart, etc.
Click to expand...


I love meats, but ideally I try to limit my intake. Fighting that with an eating disorder is hard though.

I recommend edamame and quinoa if you like to reduce your meat protein sources. Soybeans and quinoa are the only two non animal sourced complete proteins in the world.

Fish is always good though... depending on what kind of fish of course. I'll never view eating fish as the same as eating meats like pork or beef, at least in the context of health.


----------



## Two Thumbs

Cowman said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I recently became vegan (for ethical reasons) and realized that it's much easier than I previously anticipated it would be.  So that puts a smile on my face. I'm wondering what those who post here think of veganism.
> 
> And, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I actually prefer vegetarian food. I will eat chicken or fish sometimes (less than 1-2 times a week), but don't much like red meat. Pork, hardly ever. Occasionally I get a craving for steak ... but after a few bites, I'm done. I don't think I could go strictly vegan, as I do like cheese and yogart, etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *I love meats*, but ideally I try to limit my intake. Fighting that with an eating disorder is hard though.
> 
> I recommend edamame and quinoa if you like to reduce your meat protein sources. Soybeans and quinoa are the only two non animal sourced complete proteins in the world.
> 
> Fish is always good though... depending on what kind of fish of course. I'll never view eating fish as the same as eating meats like pork or beef, at least in the context of health.
Click to expand...


Now there's some irony


----------



## gallantwarrior

Noomi said:


> So VeganMe, explain this...
> 
> You say you eat no animal products at all. So its 'cruel' to keep a few chickens and eat the eggs they produce? Why? Its not like the chook is attached to the egg, is it?
> Why is it wrong to drink the milk from a cow? Cows have to be milked, why throw perfectly good milk away? The cow won't suffer any emotional trauma from seeing its milk drunk, will it?



I'll vouch that goats seem to enjoy being milked.  I think the vegan objection references the living conditions that dairy animals or chickens are kept in.  They don't take into account that many such animals are not raised the way "factory farms" treat their animals.


----------



## koshergrl

The few vegans I've known have never been more than 30 miles from the city. 

I really don't care what people eat, and find a vegan lifestyle interesting. But the whole "morality" thing just wipes me out.


----------



## Sunni Man

The few Vegans that I have known act like they are somehow morally and ethically superior to everyone else just because they don't eat meat. That by not eating meat vegans have reached a higher level of awareness and tranquility. Basically, that not eating meat allows you to evolve into a perfect human being.

Well guess who was the worlds most famous life long vegan?


Adolph Hitler


----------



## Dajjal

Sunni Man said:


> The few Vegans that I have known act like they are somehow morally and ethically superior to everyone else just because they don't eat meat. That by not eating meat vegans have reached a higher level of awareness and tranquility. Basically, that not eating meat allows you to evolve into a perfect human being.
> 
> Well guess who was the worlds most famous life long vegan?
> 
> 
> Adolph Hitler



Where the hell did you get that information? I don't remember reading it in Mein Kampf.

Yes I have read it, along with that other unholy book, the Quran.


----------



## chanel

koshergrl said:


> The few vegans I've known have never been more than 30 miles from the city.
> 
> I really don't care what people eat, and find a vegan lifestyle interesting. But the whole "morality" thing just wipes me out.



Exactly.  Of the few Vegans I know, it is almost a religion.

When my kids decided to go vegetarian, I warned them not to become carnivore haters.  They are pretty good about that.  In fact, we had an interesting fish soup the other night that was made with chicken stock.  My older son and his girlfriend both ate it.  They knew it wouldn't kill them or send them to hell.


----------



## Sunni Man

*Hitler as a vegetarian*

 According to stenographic transcripts translated by Hugh Trevor-Roper of conversations between Hitler and his inner circle which took place between July 1941 and November 1944, _Hitler regarded himself as a vegetarian._ These conversations were gathered together under the title Hitler's Table Talk. Written notes taken at the time were transcribed and then were edited by Martin Bormann.

According to these transcripts dated November 11, 1941 Hitler said, "One may regret living at a period when it's impossible to form an idea of the shape the world of the future will assume. But there's one thing I can predict to eaters of meat: the world of the future will be vegetarian." On January 12, 1942, he said, "The only thing of which I shall be incapable is to share the sheiks' mutton with them. _I'm a vegetarian, and they must spare me from their meat."_

In private conversations, Hitler often recited the benefits of eating raw vegetables, fruit, and grains, particularly for children and soldiers. In an attempt to disgust dinner guests and provoke them into shying away from meat, he reportedly told graphic stories of visits he had made to a slaughterhouse in Ukraine.

Adolf Hitler's vegetarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## thanatos144

Sunni Man said:


> *Hitler as a vegetarian*
> 
> According to stenographic transcripts translated by Hugh Trevor-Roper of conversations between Hitler and his inner circle which took place between July 1941 and November 1944, _Hitler regarded himself as a vegetarian._ These conversations were gathered together under the title Hitler's Table Talk. Written notes taken at the time were transcribed and then were edited by Martin Bormann.
> 
> According to these transcripts dated November 11, 1941 Hitler said, "One may regret living at a period when it's impossible to form an idea of the shape the world of the future will assume. But there's one thing I can predict to eaters of meat: the world of the future will be vegetarian." On January 12, 1942, he said, "The only thing of which I shall be incapable is to share the sheiks' mutton with them. _I'm a vegetarian, and they must spare me from their meat."_
> 
> In private conversations, Hitler often recited the benefits of eating raw vegetables, fruit, and grains, particularly for children and soldiers. In an attempt to disgust dinner guests and provoke them into shying away from meat, he reportedly told graphic stories of visits he had made to a slaughterhouse in Ukraine.
> 
> Adolf Hitler's vegetarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Lack of protein makes people more malleable.


----------



## Zander

I eat whatever I want- meat, chicken, fish, eggs, vegetables, fruit, cheese, ....BACON!!! Humans are omnivores, we can eat it all.  

Now, if you want to place some limitations on yourself and be "vegan", good for you. Just don't be a sanctimonious asshole about it....


----------



## VeganMe

Hmm.

I feel sad that the majority here are saying vegans think they are perfect people and think they are better than everybody else. Some do, yes. But there are many others who don't hate anybody, and just want to get along in the world like everyone else. I hope to be able to show people (from my posting style and personality) that I'm a nice vegan. 

And again, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask. I will always answer to the best of my ability. On the flipside, if you have no interest at all, that's fine too. Up to you 100%.


----------



## gallantwarrior

VeganMe said:


> Hmm.
> 
> I feel sad that the majority here are saying vegans think they are perfect people and think they are better than everybody else. Some do, yes. But there are many others who don't hate anybody, and just want to get along in the world like everyone else. I hope to be able to show people (from my posting style and personality) that I'm a nice vegan.
> 
> And again, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask. I will always answer to the best of my ability. On the flipside, if you have no interest at all, that's fine too. Up to you 100%.



I suspect that there are a few vocal vegans who have made themselves unpleasant and obnoxious and unfortunately made an unfavorable impression on the rest of us.  Perhaps you will grant that the same applies to every other group that is condemned for the poor behavior of a few in their groups.


----------



## VeganMe

^Yes unfortunately, this is often the case.


----------



## Zander

VeganMe said:


> Hmm.
> 
> I feel sad that the majority here are saying vegans think they are perfect people and think they are better than everybody else. Some do, yes. But there are many others who don't hate anybody, and just want to get along in the world like everyone else. I hope to be able to show people (from my posting style and personality) that I'm a nice vegan.
> 
> And again, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask. I will always answer to the best of my ability. On the flipside, if you have no interest at all, that's fine too. Up to you 100%.



You seem like a nice person who is not constantly proselytizing about the evils of non-vegans......that is a plus. 

 .....but ....................

you did choose "VeganMe" as your user name.....to me that indicates that you are emotionally attached to your decision. It also shows that you place a significant value on your "Vegan" lifestyle....that could easily morph into a obnoxious displays of moral superiority that is often demonstrated by Vegans, Electric Car owners, and dedicated practitioners of Yoga.... 

the jury is still out, but we'll be watching!!!


----------



## ClosedCaption

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqqGZBRBLcM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqqGZBRBLcM[/ame]


----------



## VeganMe

Zander said:


> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm.
> 
> I feel sad that the majority here are saying vegans think they are perfect people and think they are better than everybody else. Some do, yes. But there are many others who don't hate anybody, and just want to get along in the world like everyone else. I hope to be able to show people (from my posting style and personality) that I'm a nice vegan.
> 
> And again, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask. I will always answer to the best of my ability. On the flipside, if you have no interest at all, that's fine too. Up to you 100%.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You seem like a nice person who is not constantly proselytizing about the evils of non-vegans......that is a plus.
> 
> .....but ....................
> 
> you did choose "VeganMe" as your user name.....to me that indicates that you are emotionally attached to your decision. It also shows that you place a significant value on your "Vegan" lifestyle....that could easily morph into a obnoxious displays of moral superiority that is often demonstrated by Vegans, Electric Car owners, and dedicated practitioners of Yoga....
> 
> the jury is still out, but we'll be watching!!!
Click to expand...


Thanks for saying I seem nice. That puts a smile on my face.  As for choosing "VeganMe" as my UN...the reason I joined this site was to talk to someone who seems to value the lifestyle like I do. And yes, I do value vaganism. 

If I didn't, I never would have become one. But if someone else tells me they won't become vegan, I'm not going to argue with them about it or get angry. I value America for its freedom of speech and choice and just as I have made my choice, others are free to make their own. 

Spreading awareness of something you feel passionate about is a good thing, IMO, as long as you don't get preachy or talk down to people.


----------



## Douger

People can eat whatever or whoever they want. I could care less.


----------



## gallantwarrior

Zander said:


> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm.
> 
> I feel sad that the majority here are saying vegans think they are perfect people and think they are better than everybody else. Some do, yes. But there are many others who don't hate anybody, and just want to get along in the world like everyone else. I hope to be able to show people (from my posting style and personality) that I'm a nice vegan.
> 
> And again, if anyone has any questions about the lifestyle, feel free to ask. I will always answer to the best of my ability. On the flipside, if you have no interest at all, that's fine too. Up to you 100%.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You seem like a nice person who is not constantly proselytizing about the evils of non-vegans......that is a plus.
> 
> .....but ....................
> 
> you did choose "VeganMe" as your user name.....to me that indicates that you are emotionally attached to your decision. It also shows that you place a significant value on your "Vegan" lifestyle....that could easily morph into a obnoxious displays of moral superiority that is often demonstrated by Vegans, Electric Car owners, and dedicated practitioners of Yoga....
> 
> the jury is still out, but we'll be watching!!!
Click to expand...


I'm willing to give her/him the benefit of the doubt.  Thus far, he/she has been fairly decent but there seems to be an element of excitement, perhaps from having made a fairly important life decision?


----------



## VeganMe

^This sums it up well.  I'm very excited about my decision because it does feel important to me. I feel like sharing what I know with people who may be interested to learn.


----------



## gallantwarrior

VeganMe said:


> ^This sums it up well.  I'm very excited about my decision because it does feel important to me. I feel like sharing what I know with people who may be interested to learn.



Feel free to share.  Just expect sharing in return.  I am rather a purist when it comes to food, although I draw no veggie/meat lines.  I'm pretty displeased with big agri-business and the pure trash they are allowed to sell to the public as "nutritional" food.  It's filler.  But  agri-business is represented by the best government they can buy.  
P.S. if you want more information on what OWG plans for our food resources (affecting plant-based foodstuffs as well as meat), check out a couple of these sites:

this one is the official website and provide the official propaganda:
CODEX Alimentarius: Home

This is one of the better sites that spell out the real goals of the Codex Alimentarius:
Codex Alimentarius - the REAL threat to World health

There are others, just google "Codex Alimentarius" and wade through a few yourself.


----------



## Noomi

I agree that people can eat whatever they want. Its just when you have nutters like PETA out there, yelling abuse and throwing paint or flour on people, that make vegans look like a bunch of terrorists.

I wish every vegan would distance themselves from PETA because the group serves no purpose at all but to vilify everyone who chooses to eat meat.


----------



## amrchaos

VeganMe said:


> @ California - I am a vegan because I don't want to support (with my dollar) the meat and dairy industries, which are known for treating their animals very cruelly and inhumanely. I also don't want anything to have to die for me to eat it. I can eat other things.



You do know that other lifeforms still die in order for you to eat.

Lifeforms such as plants, fungi(Oh--I love mushrooms, by the way) and certain micro-organisms as well.

Also, add in the fact that many nuts and fruits are the immature forms of plants, and you are literally stealing the food from, or eating, the babies of other living things!!

Tell me--is it because the other stuff can't scream is the reason you don't think about their lives?  Cows can scream and communicate pain--but the Banana just sit while its skin is peeled back and its innards torn to bits.  Is that really considered ok?

By the way--there are only a few living things that can consume with out the need to kill another lifeform.  We humans are naturally not one of those lifeforms.


----------



## Liability

Vegans are indifferent to the pain they inflict on plants!

Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose (Indian physiologist) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

Callous bastiges.


----------



## Liability

*Arrgghhhhh!  Owwwwwwww!  Ahhhhhhhh!*

_The silence of the carrots._


----------



## Zander

veganme, have you considered becoming a Jainist?
Go big or go home!! 


> Jains are vegetarians. They avoid eating root vegetables in general, as cutting root from a plant kills it unlike other parts of the plant (leaf, fruit, seed, etc.). Furthermore, according to Jain texts, root vegetables contain infinite microorganisms called nigodas. Followers of Jain dharma eat before the night falls. They filter water regularly so as to remove any small insects that may be present and boil water prior to consumption.


----------



## gallantwarrior

Zander said:


> veganme, have you considered becoming a Jainist?
> Go big or go home!!
> 
> 
> 
> Jains are vegetarians. They avoid eating root vegetables in general, as cutting root from a plant kills it unlike other parts of the plant (leaf, fruit, seed, etc.). Furthermore, according to Jain texts, root vegetables contain infinite microorganisms called nigodas. Followers of Jain dharma eat before the night falls. They filter water regularly so as to remove any small insects that may be present and boil water prior to consumption.
Click to expand...


I guess they boil the water to make soup of the remaining insects, diatoms, and microorganisms?


----------



## Zander

gallantwarrior said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> veganme, have you considered becoming a Jainist?
> Go big or go home!!
> 
> 
> 
> Jains are vegetarians. They avoid eating root vegetables in general, as cutting root from a plant kills it unlike other parts of the plant (leaf, fruit, seed, etc.). Furthermore, according to Jain texts, root vegetables contain infinite microorganisms called nigodas. Followers of Jain dharma eat before the night falls. They filter water regularly so as to remove any small insects that may be present and boil water prior to consumption.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess they boil the water to make soup of the remaining insects, diatoms, and microorganisms?
Click to expand...


They filter the water first to remove all the "innocent" nigodas.


----------



## rightwinger

*	
 Vegans! What do you think of them?

From what I have heard, the lack of meat in their diet turns Vegans into sex starved nymphomaniacs. 

Vegans have an insatiable desire for sex and are only interested in one piece of meat


----------



## Liability

rightwinger said:


> *
> Vegans! What do you think of them?
> 
> From what I have heard, the lack of meat in their diet turns Vegans into sex starved nymphomaniacs.
> 
> Vegans have an insatiable desire for sex and are only interested in one piece of meat



That might be true if it weren't for lesbian vegans.


----------



## Pho_King

What do I think of vegans?  Absolutely nothing.  Who cares about a bunch of pansies that won't eat cheese?


----------



## rightwinger

Liability said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Vegans! What do you think of them?
> 
> From what I have heard, the lack of meat in their diet turns Vegans into sex starved nymphomaniacs.
> 
> Vegans have an insatiable desire for sex and are only interested in one piece of meat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That might be true if it weren't for lesbian vegans.
Click to expand...


Cucumbers?


----------



## VeganMe

amrchaos said:


> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> @ California - I am a vegan because I don't want to support (with my dollar) the meat and dairy industries, which are known for treating their animals very cruelly and inhumanely. I also don't want anything to have to die for me to eat it. I can eat other things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do know that other lifeforms still die in order for you to eat.
> 
> Lifeforms such as plants, fungi(Oh--I love mushrooms, by the way) and certain micro-organisms as well.
> 
> Also, add in the fact that many nuts and fruits are the immature forms of plants, and you are literally stealing the food from, or eating, the babies of other living things!!
> 
> Tell me--is it because the other stuff can't scream is the reason you don't think about their lives?  Cows can scream and communicate pain--but the Banana just sit while its skin is peeled back and its innards torn to bits.  Is that really considered ok?
> 
> By the way--there are only a few living things that can consume with out the need to kill another lifeform.  We humans are naturally not one of those lifeforms.
Click to expand...


If you have ever watched undercover footage of the industry "standard" (which is animal torture) at factory farms, you might wish to reconsider the "other life forms have to die so you can eat" position. Let me tell you, it is BRUTAL.

Plants have no nervous system, they cannot feel pain. They have no brain, they cannot think or feel _anything._ So no, I don't feel guilty about eating a plant's fruit because it is not alive in the same way flesh/blood creatures are.


----------



## gallantwarrior

Here's some food for thought:  Like veganme, I have some major objections about how big agri deals with their "product".  The crap they are fed to fatten them, the fact that massive amounts of antibiotics are pumped into the animals to offset the health issues resulting from extremely poor husbandry, the nutritionally substandard product they ship to market as food fit for human consumption, all of that appalls me and has inspired me to find alternatives to supermarket filler (it isn't really food).  Instead of eschewing consumption of all meat products, I have instead begun raising and processing my own food, to the greatest extent possible.  It's interesting to see what choices are made to deal with the same problem.


----------



## Zander

gallantwarrior said:


> Here's some food for thought:  Like veganme, I have some major objections about how big agri deals with their "product".  The crap they are fed to fatten them, the fact that massive amounts of antibiotics are pumped into the animals to offset the health issues resulting from extremely poor husbandry, the nutritionally substandard product they ship to market as food fit for human consumption, all of that appalls me and has inspired me to find alternatives to supermarket filler (it isn't really food).  Instead of eschewing consumption of all meat products, I have instead begun raising and processing my own food, to the greatest extent possible.  It's interesting to see what choices are made to deal with the same problem.


I agree that we need to be more aware of "factory" food.  We really do become what we eat to some extent.  Personally,  I buy farm fresh fruits and veggies twice a week at the local farmer's market. I have pretty much given up on beef - I buy grass fed bison instead. My chicken (and eggs) comes from a local chicken farm where the chickens actually walk around.   I spend more money than most people do on food, but I think it's worth it.


----------



## VeganMe

^Thanks for appreciating that we save animal lives, Magicbaby  At the very least, we don't contribute to their long-term suffering or mistreatment (by not buying meat or dairy products, or leather/silk etc).

But vegans don't just eat vegetables. We have as many normal food options as anyone else. They make a ton of vegan options (even pizza and mac and cheese with soy cheese). We can have cereal, bread, rice milk, beans, pasta, desserts, snacks and mostly anything that doesn't have animal products in it. 

So, fruits and veggies are optional in the vegan diet.


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## Noomi

VeganMe - do you think parents should be allowed to raise your young children on a vegan diet?


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## VeganMe

^Children have growing bodies and have very specific dietary needs in order to keep growing and stay healthy. I think the child should always be given the choice and never forced into a certain way of eating against their will (not referring to "eating their veggies of course").

If a child is interested in becoming vegan, I think it is 110% the responsibility of that child's parent(s) to research like crazy about everything vegan-related. If the child's dietary needs can 100% be met with vegan food, and the child wants to eat this way, I don't see why it's a problem. 

But again, I stress that it is IMPERATIVE for the parent(s) to know what they are doing beforehand so the child doesn't become malnourished in any way. They might also want to consult with a doctor and work out a step-by-step eating plan in order for the child to obtain maximum health and continued growth on a vegan diet.

The key with any diet (vegan included) is knowledge. Know your facts, then put them into action if you think the diet is one you wish to try.


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## Douger

Noomi said:


> VeganMe - do you think parents should be allowed to raise your young children on a vegan diet?


Yes.


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## Liability

rightwinger said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Vegans! What do you think of them?
> 
> From what I have heard, the lack of meat in their diet turns Vegans into sex starved nymphomaniacs.
> 
> Vegans have an insatiable desire for sex and are only interested in one piece of meat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That might be true if it weren't for lesbian vegans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cucumbers?
Click to expand...


I can see how that might qualify as a meat substitute, but not as meat.

But I'd be interested in seeing how it works, perhaps.


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## gallantwarrior

Zander said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's some food for thought:  Like veganme, I have some major objections about how big agri deals with their "product".  The crap they are fed to fatten them, the fact that massive amounts of antibiotics are pumped into the animals to offset the health issues resulting from extremely poor husbandry, the nutritionally substandard product they ship to market as food fit for human consumption, all of that appalls me and has inspired me to find alternatives to supermarket filler (it isn't really food).  Instead of eschewing consumption of all meat products, I have instead begun raising and processing my own food, to the greatest extent possible.  It's interesting to see what choices are made to deal with the same problem.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that we need to be more aware of "factory" food.  We really do become what we eat to some extent.  Personally,  I buy farm fresh fruits and veggies twice a week at the local farmer's market. I have pretty much given up on beef - I buy grass fed bison instead. My chicken (and eggs) comes from a local chicken farm where the chickens actually walk around.   I spend more money than most people do on food, but I think it's worth it.
Click to expand...


I am really looking forward to getting my big place up and running.  (The small place I'm using now is pretty limited, 200 acres will make a big difference.)  I plan on marketing grass-fed beef.  I know of several small producers up here who pay their annual mortgage selling grass-fed beef to people who are willing to put a down payment on a half or whole animal.  Of course, lots of people will do their own butchering up here because so many hunt, too.  I'm actually researching raising yaks, but am not certain how big the market for such meat might be.  Yaks are easier to raise than bison and they can also be used for milk and fiber production as well as for meat.  They also make some pretty handy pack animals.  I like the multipurpose aspect of such an animal.
I'll eat almost no store-bought chicken or eggs.  Again, I have to wait until I get the big place up and running.  If you've had fresh chicken or eggs from a small holder, especially those who eat what they produce, you won't go back to store bought unless forced to.


----------



## gallantwarrior

VeganMe said:


> ^Thanks for appreciating that we save animal lives, Magicbaby  At the very least, we don't contribute to their long-term suffering or mistreatment (by not buying meat or dairy products, or leather/silk etc).
> 
> But vegans don't just eat vegetables. We have as many normal food options as anyone else. They make a ton of vegan options (even pizza and mac and cheese with soy cheese). We can have cereal, bread, rice milk, beans, pasta, desserts, snacks and mostly anything that doesn't have animal products in it.
> 
> So, fruits and veggies are optional in the vegan diet.



Want a recipe for nettle pesto?  Ooops!  I forgot, I use Parmesan cheese, but you could probably find some substitute.


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## rightwinger

Vegans take life too seriously. It's not that hard......honest


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## Zander

gallantwarrior said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's some food for thought:  Like veganme, I have some major objections about how big agri deals with their "product".  The crap they are fed to fatten them, the fact that massive amounts of antibiotics are pumped into the animals to offset the health issues resulting from extremely poor husbandry, the nutritionally substandard product they ship to market as food fit for human consumption, all of that appalls me and has inspired me to find alternatives to supermarket filler (it isn't really food).  Instead of eschewing consumption of all meat products, I have instead begun raising and processing my own food, to the greatest extent possible.  It's interesting to see what choices are made to deal with the same problem.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that we need to be more aware of "factory" food.  We really do become what we eat to some extent.  Personally,  I buy farm fresh fruits and veggies twice a week at the local farmer's market. I have pretty much given up on beef - I buy grass fed bison instead. My chicken (and eggs) comes from a local chicken farm where the chickens actually walk around.   I spend more money than most people do on food, but I think it's worth it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am really looking forward to getting my big place up and running.  (The small place I'm using now is pretty limited, 200 acres will make a big difference.)  I plan on marketing grass-fed beef.  I know of several small producers up here who pay their annual mortgage selling grass-fed beef to people who are willing to put a down payment on a half or whole animal.  Of course, lots of people will do their own butchering up here because so many hunt, too.  I'm actually researching raising yaks, but am not certain how big the market for such meat might be.  Yaks are easier to raise than bison and they can also be used for milk and fiber production as well as for meat.  They also make some pretty handy pack animals.  I like the multipurpose aspect of such an animal.
> I'll eat almost no store-bought chicken or eggs.  Again, I have to wait until I get the big place up and running.  If you've had fresh chicken or eggs from a small holder, especially those who eat what they produce, you won't go back to store bought unless forced to.
Click to expand...


 Yak? Sounds very interesting, I'll have to see if I can find some Yak meat to sample!  I will tell you that I have developed a real taste for Wild boar.   My wife makes a bolognese sauce using ground wild boar....yum! Maybe you could buy a few males and females, and let nature do the rest.....

EDIT- found this guy in Vermont who will ship grass fed Yak.  http://www.vermontyak.com/index.php


> The Vermont Yak Company sells organic Yak meat. You purchase a $100 share of meat online, by mail or phone. I purchased using Paypal, Then you pick the freshly frozen meat up at their farm in Waitsfield VT or they will ship the frozen meat to you via UPS. I picked up my one 10 lb share of meat today. 4 lbs of ground Yak, 1 T-Bone Steak, and the rest in three flavors of sausage. I can't wait to get this meat on the grill very soon. One of the Owner operators that I delt with was Rob, very pleasant and very accommodating. I will be doing business with them again. The cost works out to $10 per pound, not cheap but what are you willing to pay for high quality grass fed organic high protein meat? You get what you pay for.


 Also, there is a restaurant nearby in Venice that has a number of dishes with fresh Yak....I am going to check it out! I's gonna get me some YAK!!!


----------



## rightwinger




----------



## gallantwarrior

Zander said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that we need to be more aware of "factory" food.  We really do become what we eat to some extent.  Personally,  I buy farm fresh fruits and veggies twice a week at the local farmer's market. I have pretty much given up on beef - I buy grass fed bison instead. My chicken (and eggs) comes from a local chicken farm where the chickens actually walk around.   I spend more money than most people do on food, but I think it's worth it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am really looking forward to getting my big place up and running.  (The small place I'm using now is pretty limited, 200 acres will make a big difference.)  I plan on marketing grass-fed beef.  I know of several small producers up here who pay their annual mortgage selling grass-fed beef to people who are willing to put a down payment on a half or whole animal.  Of course, lots of people will do their own butchering up here because so many hunt, too.  I'm actually researching raising yaks, but am not certain how big the market for such meat might be.  Yaks are easier to raise than bison and they can also be used for milk and fiber production as well as for meat.  They also make some pretty handy pack animals.  I like the multipurpose aspect of such an animal.
> I'll eat almost no store-bought chicken or eggs.  Again, I have to wait until I get the big place up and running.  If you've had fresh chicken or eggs from a small holder, especially those who eat what they produce, you won't go back to store bought unless forced to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yak? Sounds very interesting, I'll have to see if I can find some Yak meat to sample!  I will tell you that I have developed a real taste for Wild boar.   My wife makes a bolognese sauce using ground wild boar....yum! Maybe you could buy a few males and females, and let nature do the rest.....
> 
> EDIT- found this guy in Vermont who will ship grass fed Yak.  Vermont Yak
> 
> 
> 
> The Vermont Yak Company sells organic Yak meat. You purchase a $100 share of meat online, by mail or phone. I purchased using Paypal, Then you pick the freshly frozen meat up at their farm in Waitsfield VT or they will ship the frozen meat to you via UPS. I picked up my one 10 lb share of meat today. 4 lbs of ground Yak, 1 T-Bone Steak, and the rest in three flavors of sausage. I can't wait to get this meat on the grill very soon. One of the Owner operators that I delt with was Rob, very pleasant and very accommodating. I will be doing business with them again. The cost works out to $10 per pound, not cheap but what are you willing to pay for high quality grass fed organic high protein meat? You get what you pay for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Also, there is a restaurant nearby in Venice that has a number of dishes with fresh Yak....I am going to check it out! I's gonna get me some YAK!!!
Click to expand...


I'd be pleased if you let me know your opinion of yak.  The folks up here who sell it swear by it, but then, I would too if I were trying to sell it!


----------



## Zander

gallantwarrior said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am really looking forward to getting my big place up and running.  (The small place I'm using now is pretty limited, 200 acres will make a big difference.)  I plan on marketing grass-fed beef.  I know of several small producers up here who pay their annual mortgage selling grass-fed beef to people who are willing to put a down payment on a half or whole animal.  Of course, lots of people will do their own butchering up here because so many hunt, too.  I'm actually researching raising yaks, but am not certain how big the market for such meat might be.  Yaks are easier to raise than bison and they can also be used for milk and fiber production as well as for meat.  They also make some pretty handy pack animals.  I like the multipurpose aspect of such an animal.
> I'll eat almost no store-bought chicken or eggs.  Again, I have to wait until I get the big place up and running.  If you've had fresh chicken or eggs from a small holder, especially those who eat what they produce, you won't go back to store bought unless forced to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yak? Sounds very interesting, I'll have to see if I can find some Yak meat to sample!  I will tell you that I have developed a real taste for Wild boar.   My wife makes a bolognese sauce using ground wild boar....yum! Maybe you could buy a few males and females, and let nature do the rest.....
> 
> EDIT- found this guy in Vermont who will ship grass fed Yak.  Vermont Yak
> 
> 
> 
> The Vermont Yak Company sells organic Yak meat. You purchase a $100 share of meat online, by mail or phone. I purchased using Paypal, Then you pick the freshly frozen meat up at their farm in Waitsfield VT or they will ship the frozen meat to you via UPS. I picked up my one 10 lb share of meat today. 4 lbs of ground Yak, 1 T-Bone Steak, and the rest in three flavors of sausage. I can't wait to get this meat on the grill very soon. One of the Owner operators that I delt with was Rob, very pleasant and very accommodating. I will be doing business with them again. The cost works out to $10 per pound, not cheap but what are you willing to pay for high quality grass fed organic high protein meat? You get what you pay for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Also, there is a restaurant nearby in Venice that has a number of dishes with fresh Yak....I am going to check it out! I's gonna get me some YAK!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'd be pleased if you let me know your opinion of yak.  The folks up here who sell it swear by it, but then, I would too if I were trying to sell it!
Click to expand...


will do!


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## 9thIDdoc

I had a friend that raised some bison until one of them killed him.


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## Noomi

rightwinger said:


>



I would love to show that to the bosses at PETA and see them get out of that one.


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## Mad Scientist

rightwinger said:


>


That's a testament to *efficiency* if I ever saw one!


----------



## thanatos144

We are designed to eat meat as well as veggies .... I don't really care if someone doesn't eat meat just means more for me but I do find this thread humorous. Some of you act like cows are abused.  Yet forcing people to malnutrition from lack of meat isn't ?


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## gallantwarrior

9thIDdoc said:


> I had a friend that raised some bison until one of them killed him.



Uh, yeah...they aren't just furry cows.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNvTHOrTf_Y]Bison Charges at Tourist - YouTube[/ame]

People up here raise bison, too.  They are notorious for getting through fences.  Great meat, though.

Believe it or not, people up here will approach both bears and moose to pet them or get nice videos to show the folks back home.  I guess some of them have a difficult time believing that the moose in downtown Anchorage isn't tame.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK-RN8C1mOE]MOOSE ATTACK ALASKA - YouTube[/ame]


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## gallantwarrior

Noomi said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would love to show that to the bosses at PETA and see them get out of that one.
Click to expand...


You want another eye-opener?  Just go through your room and list everything that is made from petro-chemicals (oil?)


----------



## amrchaos

VeganMe said:


> amrchaos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> @ California - I am a vegan because I don't want to support (with my dollar) the meat and dairy industries, which are known for treating their animals very cruelly and inhumanely. I also don't want anything to have to die for me to eat it. I can eat other things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do know that other lifeforms still die in order for you to eat.
> 
> Lifeforms such as plants, fungi(Oh--I love mushrooms, by the way) and certain micro-organisms as well.
> 
> Also, add in the fact that many nuts and fruits are the immature forms of plants, and you are literally stealing the food from, or eating, the babies of other living things!!
> 
> Tell me--is it because the other stuff can't scream is the reason you don't think about their lives?  Cows can scream and communicate pain--but the Banana just sit while its skin is peeled back and its innards torn to bits.  Is that really considered ok?
> 
> By the way--there are only a few living things that can consume with out the need to kill another lifeform.  We humans are naturally not one of those lifeforms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you have ever watched undercover footage of the industry "standard" (which is animal torture) at factory farms, you might wish to reconsider the "other life forms have to die so you can eat" position. Let me tell you, it is BRUTAL.
> 
> Plants have no nervous system, they cannot feel pain. They have no brain, they cannot think or feel _anything._ So no, I don't feel guilty about eating a plant's fruit because it is not alive in the same way flesh/blood creatures are.
Click to expand...


I've used to shoot cows in the head with an air gun.  I used the  "other life forms have to die so you can eat" position to rationalize eating meat!!

Reconsider t--it was formed out of rationalizing brutality for that Steak!  

And Steak still tastes yummy to me thanks to my rationalization!

Now this thing about plants not feeling pain so it is okay to eat them sounds like if we can dope the animals up with some barbituates, then the meat is ripe for our taking.  So, is doped up farm animals a prerequisite for vegans to eat meat?


----------



## Luddly Neddite

California Girl said:


> VeganMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, no leather for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, why are you a vegan and why do you hate cows so much that you wish to see them disappear from the planet?
Click to expand...


You're one of the more stupid rw's here but, what the hell, I'll educate you. 

First, I've been vegetarian/vegan for more than thirty years. I'm vegan at home but we travel a lot, eat out a lot, so its hard to eat vegan away from home or out of the country. Although, I must say, its getting easier and easier. 

Even the most ignorant knows that veg'n is healthier than any other "diet" but they make lots of noise to cover the facts they don't want to look at.

There's always some fool who throws out the red herring of collateral damage. This is actually the dumbest "argument" because they eat vegetables too. So, the damage they do to the planet or the suffering they cause is much ore because they not only eat veggies, they pile dead animal bodies on top of their veggies. DUMB.

Then there are those who say some dumb thing like, "yabut, you use petrochemicals too. To say that's apples ad oranges doesn't even begin to cover it. How about apples ad tennis rackets!

Then there's the, "where do you get your protein?" stupidity. The answer is, same place you get yours. Fact is, we cannot metabolize protein. We get it from the same place every other mammal gets it - the essential amino acids.  Look it up.

Another red herring that some idiot will throw out is "hunters". Jeeeeezus.

First, because they are SO damn ignernt,  they'll trot out white tail deer as though that's something to be proud of. 

More pesky facts is that deer were hunted to near extinction by stupid hunters who don't have balls so have carry a gun instead. These idiots will say the want to put food on the table for their families and don't that just bring a tear to yore eye?

More facts ... Because they wanted to be able to blast the life out of more deer, the gumt stepped in  and "managed" them.  They managed them so well that they are now so dammed common, they're considered varmints. In spite of that, the GOVERNMENT pays DEER FARMS to "grow" more. Check google. 

I confess a grudging respect for idiots who kill their own meat. I've been through slaughter houses and the old saw is true - that if most of us had to do THAT ourselves, we'd go veg in a flash. So, there's a very VERY small segment of our society that enjoys killing, enjoys bloodletting. That figure, last I read, and according to the NRA, was less than 5%. 

The rest of us want our "meat" wrapped in antiseptic cellophane. Now THAT is real cowardice. 

Anyway, going veg is the single biggest thing you can do for the environment. Since ignernt rw's desperately want to be able to tell their children and grandchildren they worked hard to kill the planet, they should eat all the BBQ's flesh they can find. (BBQ'd because that adds additional carcinogens and we all know how important to the dumbest rw's among us.)

For those who want to be healthy and work toward leaving a healthier planet than they found when they got here, read Kathy Freston, Tom Robbins (of Basin-Robbins) and other intelligent, educated authors. 

VeganMe - good posts but don't' expect many here to be as intelligent and well read as you are.


----------



## Zander

I'm a Vegetarian, but I still eat meat. Here's tonight's dinner.....yum!!


----------



## Noomi

^I had the most delicious lamb roast last night. Yours looks pretty tasty, too!


----------



## gallantwarrior

Noomi said:


> ^I had the most delicious lamb roast last night. Yours looks pretty tasty, too!



Lamb is pretty hard to find around these parts sometimes.  A lady down the road found two sheep roaming around, though.  She asked me if I might be interested if she can't find their owner.  Of course, I think she's considering me taking them on as pets, or something.   Lot's of people don't understand that not all livestock are pets.  My livestock is more like....production associates.


----------



## Zander

I picked up some wild boar sausage yesterday and will be trying them out on the grill later today......I am going to bbq some peaches with them.


----------



## gallantwarrior

zander said:


> i picked up some wild boar sausage yesterday and will be trying them out on the grill later today......i am going to bbq some peaches with them.



nom!


----------



## Zander

Here's the recipe I am following for the peaches....

Ingredients

    4 large ripe freestone peaches
    8 (3-inch) cinnamon sticks
    8 fresh mint leaves
    4 tablespoons unsalted butter
    1/4 cup firmly packed brown sugar
    1/4 cup dark rum
    1/2 teaspoon ground cinnamon
    Pinch salt
    Peach or vanilla ice cream, for serving

Directions

Rinse the peaches and blot them dry with paper towels. Cut each peach in half and discard the pit. Then, cut each peach into quarters. Using a pointed chopstick or metal skewer, make a starter hole in the center of each peach quarter, working from the pit side to the skin side. Skewer 2 peach quarters on each cinnamon stick, placing a mint leaf between the 2 quarters.

Combine the butter, brown sugar, rum, cinnamon, and salt in a saucepan and bring to a boil over high heat. Let the glaze boil until thick and syrupy, about 5 minutes.

Prepare and preheat the grill to high. Brush and oil the grate. Next, place the skewered peaches on the hot grate and grill until nicely browned, 3 to 4 minutes per side, basting with the rum and butter glaze. Spoon any remaining glaze over the grilled peaches and serve at once. Peach or vanilla ice cream makes a great accompaniment.


----------



## gallantwarrior

I might have to try that for moose.  Wish me luck, moose season starts soon.


----------



## Zander

gallantwarrior said:


> I might have to try that for moose.  Wish me luck, moose season starts soon.



Does Moose taste gamey? So far I draw the line at Elk....


----------



## gallantwarrior

Zander said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> I might have to try that for moose.  Wish me luck, moose season starts soon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does Moose taste gamey? So far I draw the line at Elk....
Click to expand...


That very much depends on how you prepare your meat.  Pack fresh kill in plastic...tastes like cheet.  Pack your fresh kill in game bags and hang it to age...nom, nom!  I prefer Dall Sheep, but moose will do in a pinch.  Moose meat is far superior to the crap you are offered in the grocery, though.


----------

