# Philosophy of Time.



## Mindful (Feb 20, 2020)

All animals except humans live in a *continual present*, with no sense of the *temporal distinctions of* past, present and future. Our *consciousness of time* is therefore one of the most important distinguishing features of humankind, and one of the things that truly separates us from the lower animals. It comes as no surprise, then, that from time immemorial, philosophers, teachers and theologians have speculated on the *true nature of time*. Does time have a substance and, if so, what is it made of? How do we know that time really exists? Does time have a beginning and an end? Is it a straight line or a circle?

Philosophy of Time – Exactly What Is Time?


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## MarathonMike (Feb 20, 2020)

We know that time has some funny properties like time dilation where clocks in motion will read differently if there is a velocity difference between the two clocks. That is physical and can be measured. 

Time perception is different. That is relative to each person, how old they are, what they are doing, and what they are planning to do. If you are a child, time seems to move more slowly than if you are older. That may be due to time units being a larger fraction of your life span when you are young. Or it may be due to the plasticity of a young mind vs a older mind. 

There is the phenomenon of "time flying when you are having fun". And time dragging when you are in a bad or boring situation. That seems as real as time dilation.

There is time management, which is our attempt to get more tasks completed within some future time period. 

As for time being linear vs a circle IMO it has to be linear. It makes for cool movies to be able to travel forward or backward in time but the paradoxes time travel creates don't make sense.


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## Mindful (Feb 20, 2020)

I've often wondered about 

*Ageing*






Ageing and old age are aspects of time we are all familiar with.
*Ageing* (spelled *aging* in American English) is a constant reminder of the passage of time. The process, and even the purpose, of ageing is a question that has intrigued and puzzled scientists for centuries, although modern science is finally beginning to throw some light on the subject.

^ From that site.


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## PK1 (Feb 26, 2020)

Mindful said:


> All animals except humans live in a *continual present*, with no sense of the *temporal distinctions of* past, present and future. Our *consciousness of time* is therefore one of the most important distinguishing features of humankind, and one of the things that truly separates us from the lower animals. It comes as no surprise, then, that from time immemorial, philosophers, teachers and theologians have speculated on the *true nature of time*. Does time have a substance and, if so, what is it made of? How do we know that time really exists? Does time have a beginning and an end? Is it a straight line or a circle?
> 
> Philosophy of Time – Exactly What Is Time?


Consciousness of our PERCEPTION of time, is more like it.

“Nature of time”? 
One thing FOLLOWS another, NOT in reverse.


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## Mindful (Feb 26, 2020)

PK1 said:


> Mindful said:
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> > All animals except humans live in a *continual present*, with no sense of the *temporal distinctions of* past, present and future. Our *consciousness of time* is therefore one of the most important distinguishing features of humankind, and one of the things that truly separates us from the lower animals. It comes as no surprise, then, that from time immemorial, philosophers, teachers and theologians have speculated on the *true nature of time*. Does time have a substance and, if so, what is it made of? How do we know that time really exists? Does time have a beginning and an end? Is it a straight line or a circle?
> ...



That's what I thought.


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## Sunni Man (Feb 26, 2020)




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## Natural Citizen (Feb 26, 2020)

Hey, good thread.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 26, 2020)

Mindful said:


> Our *consciousness of time* is therefore one of the most important distinguishing features of humankind, and one of the things that truly separates us from the lower animals.


I am curious how you know this for certain.


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## Mindful (Feb 26, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Mindful said:
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> > Our *consciousness of time* is therefore one of the most important distinguishing features of humankind, and one of the things that truly separates us from the lower animals.
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I don't.

I don't know anything.


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## Mindful (Feb 26, 2020)

JoeMoma said:


> Mindful said:
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> > All animals except humans live in a *continual present*, with no sense of the *temporal distinctions of* past, present and future.
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You mean they have some perception of a consequence?


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## JoeMoma (Feb 26, 2020)

Mindful said:


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A consequence that involves time.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 26, 2020)

Mindful said:


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You asserted it.


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## Mindful (Feb 26, 2020)

JoeMoma said:


> Mindful said:
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I never thought of it like that.


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## Mindful (Feb 26, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Mindful said:
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Oh. Did I?


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 26, 2020)

Mindful said:


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I quoted you.


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## Mindful (Feb 26, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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Is this about me now?


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 26, 2020)

Mindful said:


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No, the question I asked, and which you are dodging, is not about you. I am asking how you can be certain, or how anyone can be certain, of what you asserted. It was a simple English sentence. If you are too squeamish to tackle it, perhaps reconsider making such assertions.


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## Mindful (Feb 26, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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I don't like your style, so consider this conversation dead.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 26, 2020)

Mindful said:


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It was already dead, when you were dodging my question.


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## PK1 (Feb 26, 2020)

Mindful said:


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One has to consider TIME along with SPACE. If there is a consequence to a behavior (time in forward direction), space must be a factor.
In the Philosophy of Physics, “quantum entanglement” (used in quantum computing) is a real phenomenon. but not explainable yet, to my knowledge.


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## Ringtone (Mar 11, 2020)

MarathonMike said:


> We know that time has some funny properties like time dilation where clocks in motion will read differently if there is a velocity difference between the two clocks. That is physical and can be measured.
> 
> Time perception is different. That is relative to each person, how old they are, what they are doing, and what they are planning to do. If you are a child, time seems to move more slowly than if you are older. That may be due to time units being a larger fraction of your life span when you are young. Or it may be due to the plasticity of a young mind vs a older mind.
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Thank you, MarathonMike, for your beautiful and insightful post.   I'm well aware of the various physical actualities of time in terms of speed and perspective, and your observation regarding the perception of time relative to experience and age, your thesis regarding the direction and movement of time, with which I agree, are sucient and eloquent.  Masterfully done.


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## MarathonMike (Mar 12, 2020)

Ringtone said:


> MarathonMike said:
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> > We know that time has some funny properties like time dilation where clocks in motion will read differently if there is a velocity difference between the two clocks. That is physical and can be measured.
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Much appreciated Ringtone.


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## Mindful (Mar 13, 2020)




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## Ringtone (Mar 13, 2020)

Mindful said:


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Understanding time is already mind bobbling enough, really.   I've always believed that God, who lives and moves in the eternal now, abides with us in heaven while somehow, simultaneously, maintaining a sense of linear time for us wherein we do not experience physical change, but linear being and memory.  Ultimately, time, psychologically, for us, is the linear flow of memory, wherein the future both entails fulfilments of past visions of expectations and surprises.


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## DOTR (Mar 13, 2020)

Mindful said:


> All animals except humans live in a *continual present*, with no sense of the *temporal distinctions of* past, present and future. Our *consciousness of time* is therefore one of the most important distinguishing features of humankind, and one of the things that truly separates us from the lower animals. It comes as no surprise, then, that from time immemorial, philosophers, teachers and theologians have speculated on the *true nature of time*. Does time have a substance and, if so, what is it made of? How do we know that time really exists? Does time have a beginning and an end? Is it a straight line or a circle?
> 
> Philosophy of Time – Exactly What Is Time?




Ill say this..its absolutely true that time passes faster as you age.


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## luchitociencia (Mar 19, 2020)

Time is just a measure, same as it is weight, volume, longitude, etc.

There is not an objective perception of time because time is just a concept.

One of the greatest frauds in science history is the infamous "dilatation of time" where malfunction of clocks has been taken as a magical behavior of a subjective time affected by the speed of objects. But the fantasy is going away and relativity and quantum mechanics with reference to time are superfluous ideas which are taken less seriously each day.

We do not even perceive time in subjective mode. We do have REMEMBRANCES of events, and we have IMAGINARY visions of what we might expect to come, but this is a behavior in our brain, nothing related to a universal flowing of time, which is not physically real at all.

We get use to routine, and we can wake up sharp at 6:00 am everyday, but this is not because a perception of time but a body used to wake up at the same time everyday.

The philosophy of time as flowing is just an illusion. When it takes 21 hours going from DC to Florida having breaks on Interstate 95, reality is that we have compared our traveling going South with the rotation of earth in reference to the Sun. That's all. That perception and comparison of both motions, ours and the earth's is what we call "time". 

Even the bible indirectly defines time as such a comparison, when in the first days it is told for man to use the motion of the heavenly bodies as reference to set days and seasons. And that is exactly what we do, we use the motion of earth, moon and sun to set time.

With the atomic clock, we use the vibration frequency motion of the atom of Cesium to compare it with other motion or decay of particles and bodies.

Time, the eternal concept, the sure measure, the subjective forever, is a great tool, but that is the far time is about. The whole properties and characteristics like flowing and dilatation of time are just infantile thoughts invented in the past.

Today, we know time is just a concept. That's all.


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## percysunshine (Mar 28, 2020)

After reading this thread, I have come to the conclusion that Mindful is a Labrador retriever with access to a laptop computer.


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## Mindful (Mar 29, 2020)

percysunshine said:


> After reading this thread, I have come to the conclusion that Mindful is a Labrador retriever with access to a laptop computer.



Good for you. You must feel so puffed up, with your armchair cyber pyscho analysis.  

I prefer cats.

Fetch.


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## PK1 (Apr 16, 2020)

luchitociencia said:


> Time is just a measure, same as it is weight, volume, longitude, etc.
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> There is not an objective perception of time because time is just a concept.
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Time is a concept from various angles.
Time is foremost a human concept associated with our perceptions within our ecologies & cultures.

Can we agree that the main perception is that time represents a directional “flow” of effects preceded by causes in a “process” that requires some “force”?

We as individuals have “objective” perceptions within social settings (clock time) and subjective/personal perceptions.
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## luchitociencia (Apr 16, 2020)

PK1 said:


> Time is a concept from various angles.
> Time is foremost a human concept associated with our perceptions within our ecologies & cultures.
> 
> Can we agree that the main perception is that time represents a directional “flow” of effects preceded by causes in a “process” that requires some “force”?



That scenario can be disregarded.

Lets say, you are aging, everything around you changes. There are wars, year seasons, new children in your family, new presidents, new job, new TV programs, new scientific discoveries, etc. All of these, you noticed happened "thru the years". Lets say, you observed all of the above in a 45 years period.

In your perception, guided by the idea of "one event after another" to which you can name it as "chronological order", the illusion of motion tricked you. For you, "hours" passed by, when in reality was the rotation of earth doing its routine revolving.

What for you was the "passing of years" in reality is just the routine orbit of our planet around the Sun. Never going "anywhere else" but going in circles continually. 

What for you is being 45 years old, in reality, physically speaking, it is you traveling 45 times around the Sun.

Then, the phrase, "the US independence was declared 244 years ago" you replaced it by "the US independence was declared 244 rounds around the sun before this last one."

No "special, secret, unknown force" required.

Just living in base of physical reality.


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## PK1 (Apr 28, 2020)

luchitociencia said:


> PK1 said:
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It appears that you validated my comments.
The “objective” human perception of time (by multiple humans) is defined as “1 year” = 1 rotation of earth around the sun.
That rotation is unidirectional, as is time, and the rotation is due to gravitational force.

In addition, there is a “subjective” perception of time (for human & non-human INDIVIDUAL ANIMALS) that reflects their cognitive activity & awareness. For example, a 45-yr-old may perceive the past year as having gone by quickly, while a 5-yr-old may perceive the past year in much “slower” terms, having had a more active set of learning experiences.

Time is RELATIVE, both astro-physically and psychologically.
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## luchitociencia (Apr 28, 2020)

PK1 said:


> It appears that you validated my comments.
> The “objective” human perception of time (by multiple humans) is defined as “1 year” = 1 rotation of earth around the sun.



That is not a perception of time but perception of motion. The planet moving around the sun.



PK1 said:


> That rotation is unidirectional, as is time, and the rotation is due to gravitational force.



Time is subjective and by such time lacks of motion



PK1 said:


> In addition, there is a “subjective” perception of time (for human & non-human INDIVIDUAL ANIMALS) that reflects their cognitive activity & awareness. For example, a 45-yr-old may perceive the past year as having gone by quickly, while a 5-yr-old may perceive the past year in much “slower” terms, having had a more active set of learning experiences.
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## Dalia (May 3, 2020)

Time does not exist just like the past and the future, only the present exists otherwise it is the invention of man.


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## gipper (May 3, 2020)

Mindful said:


> I've often wondered about
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> *Ageing*
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Time might not mean as much if our life spans were greatly extended. Scientists are working on this and some think humans could live for hundreds of years.

This sciencetist dedicated his book to his great great great great great great great grandchildren and stated he looks forward to meeting them.


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## Mindful (May 3, 2020)

gipper said:


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They’ll have to get working on those cells.


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## Missourian (May 3, 2020)

Try this one...









						The Real Rules for Time Travelers
					

Time travel may in fact be possible, but it wouldn't work like in Back to the Future. (For one thing, you don't have worry about your parents failing to create you — you already exist.)




					www.discovermagazine.com


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## petro (May 3, 2020)

Missourian said:


> Try this one...
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Interesting. But, my brain feels like a pretzel and now I have a headache.


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## Missourian (May 3, 2020)

petro said:


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That's what happened to me too...same thing happens when I try to visualize eternity or infinite space.


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## Dick Foster (May 3, 2020)

Mindful said:


> All animals except humans live in a *continual present*, with no sense of the *temporal distinctions of* past, present and future. Our *consciousness of time* is therefore one of the most important distinguishing features of humankind, and one of the things that truly separates us from the lower animals. It comes as no surprise, then, that from time immemorial, philosophers, teachers and theologians have speculated on the *true nature of time*. Does time have a substance and, if so, what is it made of? How do we know that time really exists? Does time have a beginning and an end? Is it a straight line or a circle?
> 
> Philosophy of Time – Exactly What Is Time?


Bullshit, we have no way of knowing what animals think or feel. It's our own idiotic arrogance making us stupid. 
For example anyone that thinks a dog doesn't care about eating the same old dry kibble shit day in and day out knows not one damn thing about dogs and likely shouldn't be allowed to have one. Or an asshole who keeps them chained up outside in cold winter weather should be first horse whipped then chained up outside in the cold winter weather.


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## petro (May 3, 2020)

Dick Foster said:


> Mindful said:
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> > All animals except humans live in a *continual present*, with no sense of the *temporal distinctions of* past, present and future. Our *consciousness of time* is therefore one of the most important distinguishing features of humankind, and one of the things that truly separates us from the lower animals. It comes as no surprise, then, that from time immemorial, philosophers, teachers and theologians have speculated on the *true nature of time*. Does time have a substance and, if so, what is it made of? How do we know that time really exists? Does time have a beginning and an end? Is it a straight line or a circle?
> ...


Could be very likely the Cetaceans of the ocean are debating the very same topic. They have been around far longer with advanced brains than us primates. Much documentation of intelligence and emotion, including empathy in the animal world. 
We know many bird species that play, crows that can reason and make a simple tool. Figure out puzzles using logic over repetition. 
Our assumption of what defines intelligence is biased  and misguided.


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## PK1 (May 4, 2020)

Mindful said:


> All animals except humans live in a *continual present*, with no sense of the *temporal distinctions of* past, present and future. Our *consciousness of time* is therefore one of the most important distinguishing features of humankind, and one of the things that truly separates us from the lower animals. It comes as no surprise, then, that from time immemorial, philosophers, teachers and theologians have speculated on the *true nature of time*. Does time have a substance and, if so, what is it made of? How do we know that time really exists? Does time have a beginning and an end? Is it a straight line or a circle?
> 
> Philosophy of Time – Exactly What Is Time?


Apparently, some psychologists believe that non-human animals ALSO perceive time beyond the moment or “present”. It’s part of our various adaptive mechanisms ... for survival & propagation.

“In recent history, ecologists and psychologists have been interested in whether and how time is perceived by non-human animals, as well as which functional purposes are served by the ability to perceive time. Studies have demonstrated that many species of animals, including both vertebrates and invertebrates, have cognitive abilities that allow them to estimate and compare time intervals and durations in a similar way to humans.”





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						Time perception - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



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## zaangalewa (May 11, 2020)

Sunni Man said:


> View attachment 308892



Your have a link with the title "*Lets stop with the Auschwitz lies*". This link tells lies about Auschwitz.

Short overview:

_When Germany invaded Poland in September 1939, triggering World War II, Hitler ordered that the Polish leadership and intelligentsia be destroyed. The camp at Auschwitz was established in April 1940, at first as a quarantine camp for Polish political prisoners. On 22 June 1941, in an attempt to obtain new territory, Hitler invaded the Soviet Union. The first gassing at Auschwitz—of a group of Soviet prisoners of war—took place around August 1941. By the end of that year, during what most historians regard as the first phase of the Holocaust, 500,000–800,000 Soviet Jews had been killed in mass shootings by German Einsatzgruppen [=task forces], ordinary German soldiers, and local collaborators. At the Wannsee Conference in Berlin on 20 January 1942, Heydrich outlined the Final Solution of the Jewish Question [=the holocaust] to senior Nazis, and from early 1942 freight trains delivered Jews from all over occupied Europe to German extermination camps in Poland: Auschwitz, Bełżec,  Chełmno, Majdanek, Sobibór and Treblinka. Most prisoners were gassed on arrival. _

Source Wikipedia (05/11/2020)

In context philosophy of time: History is not a myth. History are facts - and who ignores now intentionally the crimes of the past, will have to live in an insane demented future.


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## Deplorable Yankee (May 11, 2020)




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## Unkotare (May 24, 2020)

Time obviously exists just as shape, color, number and distance exist. The fact that we can't perceive all of it completely from our limited perspective doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Add in relativity and it gets even more ambiguous.


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## jackflash (Aug 1, 2020)

Mindful said:


> All animals except humans live in a *continual present*, with no sense of the *temporal distinctions of* past, present and future. Our *consciousness of time* is therefore one of the most important distinguishing features of humankind, and one of the things that truly separates us from the lower animals. It comes as no surprise, then, that from time immemorial, philosophers, teachers and theologians have speculated on the *true nature of time*. Does time have a substance and, if so, what is it made of? How do we know that time really exists? Does time have a beginning and an end? Is it a straight line or a circle?
> 
> Philosophy of Time – Exactly What Is Time?


Physics separates the BEST OF MINDS from the more blahzay great minds. I did great in the social sciences but was quickly dispatched when I tried to entertain the field of physics. I will try my best to answer your questions but may be passing on conjecture @ best as what I have read may be conjecture @ best itself. 1st... Professor Hawking is/was the go to man on this subject with his "Brief History of Time" publication an international best seller. Despite dwarfing all previous minds on the subject of the dimension of time professor Hawking was still barely able to scatch the surface of the subject but still light years ahead of the rest of the pack.  #2) As far as I could find out time comprises a part(?) of the 4th dimensional continuum but again this may be conjecture @ best(a reasonable guess?).  Mankind does not know if time carries substance(@ least as we know substance to be).  I CAN ANSWER THIS ONE!!! We know time exists because we can go forwards through time but NOT backwards through time(time appears a half of a dimension to humans).  Time supposedly is a created dimension meaning it had a beginning(before time?/I have no idea what I am trying to say) & thus means it has an end(after time? I am completely lost here).  Supposedly the continuum  is round from what I have read but noticed physicists refer to a "TIME LINE" continually.  I'm just shooting in the dark here but I am extremely interested in the subject & is WHY I answered your post.  Take care, till next time!


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## Jonathan McCreevey (Aug 27, 2020)

Mindful said:


> All animals except humans live in a *continual present*, with no sense of the *temporal distinctions of* past, present and future. Our *consciousness of time* is therefore one of the most important distinguishing features of humankind, and one of the things that truly separates us from the lower animals. It comes as no surprise, then, that from time immemorial, philosophers, teachers and theologians have speculated on the *true nature of time*. Does time have a substance and, if so, what is it made of? How do we know that time really exists? Does time have a beginning and an end? Is it a straight line or a circle?
> 
> Philosophy of Time – Exactly What Is Time?


I know that there is an order of events and we can't undo that. What you count on is up to you.
What is a circle to you? Does it represent repetition or equidistance? Do you think it is perfect? Is the mind above the eyes?
Do you want time to end? Do you want to stop measuring your age? Do you want to live forever? Do you aspire to godliness?


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