# Medical marijuana



## IronFist (Jun 7, 2015)

What do you think about medical marijuana? Don't you think it's strange that it's getting legalized everywhere since recently? Some years ago potheads were laughing at and now it is completely okay to smoke weed almost everywhere. Sure thing it can be used for medical purposes but it seems like things are going way too fast. It can cause schizophrenia and make people addicted in no time.
Maybe it's too early to legalize it? A question to pot smokers: how has marijuana improved your life?


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## Judicial review (Jun 7, 2015)

Should be legal and anybody with a conviction due to it should have it reversed and deleted from their record.  Period.


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## Manonthestreet (Jun 7, 2015)

they should pay same huge tax as cigs.


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## Pogo (Jun 7, 2015)

IronFist said:


> What do you think about medical marijuana? Don't you think it's strange that it's getting legalized everywhere since recently? Some years ago potheads were laughing at and now it is completely okay to smoke weed almost everywhere. Sure thing it can be used for medical purposes but it seems like things are going way too fast. It can cause schizophrenia and make people addicted in no time.
> Maybe it's too early to legalize it? A question to pot smokers: how has marijuana improved your life?



It cannot cause schizophrenia and it's not addictive.  And this has been known for a long long time.


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## TheOldSchool (Jun 7, 2015)

The bullshit's gone on long enough.  Legalize it!


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## Manonthestreet (Jun 7, 2015)

TheOldSchool said:


> The bullshit's gone on long enough.  Legalize it!


and put warning stickers on it that include all the jobs you just disqualified yourself from for which you will not then be able to collect welfare


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## TheOldSchool (Jun 7, 2015)

Manonthestreet said:


> TheOldSchool said:
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> > The bullshit's gone on long enough.  Legalize it!
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If you drink alcohol, then there should be stickers for that too you shriv.  As it's much more dangerous to yourself and others.


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## Manonthestreet (Jun 7, 2015)

but it doesnt disqualify you from holding any jobs, so no


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## TheOldSchool (Jun 7, 2015)

Manonthestreet said:


> but it doesnt disqualify you from holding any jobs, so no


Neither will marijuana once it's legal.  You dummy.


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## Manonthestreet (Jun 7, 2015)

yes it will.......just like it does now in states where it is legal


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 7, 2015)

IronFist said:


> What do you think about medical marijuana? Don't you think it's strange that it's getting legalized everywhere since recently? Some years ago potheads were laughing at and now it is completely okay to smoke weed almost everywhere. Sure thing it can be used for medical purposes but it seems like things are going way too fast. It can cause schizophrenia and make people addicted in no time.
> Maybe it's too early to legalize it? A question to pot smokers: how has marijuana improved your life?


This is of no consequence for those victims of cancer fighting for their lives.


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## TheOldSchool (Jun 7, 2015)

Manonthestreet said:


> yes it will.......just like it does now in states where it is legal


Passing a sobriety test is very different from passing a urine test.  And even if that is an issue, then sure put a list of what jobs people can't have.  Most won't test anyways if the person is performing well, which history has proven is not a problem.


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## Manonthestreet (Jun 7, 2015)

case ya havent notice testing is mandatory for lots of jobs


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## S.J. (Jun 7, 2015)

The legalization of marijuana is long overdue.  Sorry, fellow conservatives, but it's true.  Alcohol should not have been illegal and neither should pot.  We can argue until we're blue in the face about whether or not it's bad for you but that's not what this country is about and never has been.  It's not addictive and it doesn't make you kill people.  Peaceful people should be allowed to do whatever they want, whether anyone thinks they SHOULD or not.


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## TheOldSchool (Jun 7, 2015)

Manonthestreet said:


> case ya havent notice testing is mandatory for lots of jobs


Cool.  Fucking legalize it anyways.  Stop enriching cartels and prisons.


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## Manonthestreet (Jun 7, 2015)

and no welfare for you


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## TheOldSchool (Jun 7, 2015)

Manonthestreet said:


> and no welfare for you


Don't need it.  As most recreational users won't need it.  Same as with alcohol.


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## Manonthestreet (Jun 7, 2015)

We'll see........wonder where one might find said list of jobs.......bet its substantial


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## TheOldSchool (Jun 7, 2015)

Manonthestreet said:


> We'll see........wonder where one might find said list of jobs.......bet its substantial


Less substantial than your massive vagina


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## theDoctorisIn (Jun 7, 2015)

I have a "prescription" for medical marijuana, for insomnia.

It certainly does work, although I smoke pot any time I'm not working. When it comes down to it, the "medical" thing is a little ridiculous, it should just be legal all around.


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## Manonthestreet (Jun 7, 2015)

Facts inconvenient.......what is that your drive by flamer initiation so someone might give you points too......


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## TheOldSchool (Jun 7, 2015)

Manonthestreet said:


> Facts inconvenient.......what is that your drive by flamer initiation so someone might give you points too......


As with prohibitionists, you people need to die off.  So rationality can take back over.


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## S.J. (Jun 7, 2015)

TheOldSchool said:


> Manonthestreet said:
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> > Facts inconvenient.......what is that your drive by flamer initiation so someone might give you points too......
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Leave it to a hack like you to bring a potentially constructive discussion down into the mud.


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## TheOldSchool (Jun 7, 2015)

S.J. said:


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Oh yeah... go ahead and point out where manothestreet has been rational.

Hell, even you were rational for the first time ever on this site.


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## Pogo (Jun 7, 2015)

Manonthestreet said:


> case ya havent notice testing is mandatory for lots of jobs



And sycophants like you bend over for it, right?


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## S.J. (Jun 7, 2015)

TheOldSchool said:


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Wish I could say the same for you, hack.


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## TheOldSchool (Jun 7, 2015)

S.J. said:


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You're right.  I've been rational tons of other times.  So you couldn't say the same.


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## Maryland Patriot (Jun 14, 2015)

The only problem I have with the medical use is that for one, the number of things it treats is going to keep getting bigger. Like the poster above, insomnia.. LOL, how long did you have to search for that Doctor?
and, the biggest issue is that once it is legal for medical use, then the users start fighting to get it paid for like a prescription, and its going to cost us all.
now as far as it being addictive and causing schizophrenia??? Dont think so. 
Somebody watched Reefer Madness.


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## Moonglow (Jun 14, 2015)

IronFist said:


> What do you think about medical marijuana? Don't you think it's strange that it's getting legalized everywhere since recently? Some years ago potheads were laughing at and now it is completely okay to smoke weed almost everywhere. Sure thing it can be used for medical purposes but it seems like things are going way too fast. It can cause schizophrenia and make people addicted in no time.
> Maybe it's too early to legalize it? A question to pot smokers: how has marijuana improved your life?


You really don't know shit about MJ and how it is used to help people with ailments..you ignorant fucks always delude yourself with quack medicine from conservative trollops that sell you a line of lies about MJ and how it causes schizophrenia....


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## Moonglow (Jun 14, 2015)

Manonthestreet said:


> and no welfare for you


Since many smokers and tokers work for a living too bad your slight does not include the majority, Colorado has a 4.2 unemployment rate, one of the better states for pot heads that work..


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## waltky (Sep 9, 2015)

Good argument for the use of _medical_ marijuana...

*Epileptic girl overcomes Mexico cannabis ban*
_9 Sept.`15 - An eight-year-old girl who endures 400 daily epileptic seizures will become Mexico's first authorized consumer of medical cannabis after the government granted her Tuesday an exemption to its marijuana ban._


> The health ministry announced in a statement that it would facilitate the paperwork needed to import a cannabis oil that is believed to alleviate epileptic fits.  "We are happy," Raul Elizalde, the girl's father, told AFP by telephone after he met with the head of Cofepris, the health agency that oversees medicine imports. "It's our last hope."  "We want to reduce the number of convulsions from 400 per day to none. We hope that she could become more independent, that she could walk and speak and eat on her own," he said.  Graciela, who lives in the northern industrial hub of Monterrey, has a severe form of epilepsy known as Lennox-Gastaut syndrome.
> 
> The girl, whose parents call her Grace, has not spoken a word since saying "mommy" when she was under two years old. She wears diapers, crawls and moves in a pink wheelchair.  Her parents have tried a slew of treatments, including brain surgery, to ease their daughter's pain, but nothing has worked and her condition has worsened.  Out of other options, they asked the government's General Health Council for a special permit to import cannabidiol (CBD), but it was denied.  Last month, a judge gave her desperate parents permission to get the medicine even though Mexico, which is engulfed in a bloody drug war, opposes any legalization of narcotics.  Elizalde said the doctor must now write a prescription and they would then seek to import the drug from the United States or Norway.
> 
> ...


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## quorthon (Sep 9, 2015)

waltky said:


> Good argument for the use of _medical_ marijuana...


And medicinally, yes. All here understand this. But what's going on in some states under the guise of medical use...
Btw thanks for the article. Mexico is on the way to pot legalization.


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## threegoofs (Sep 13, 2015)

If you look at Colorado, it's pretty clear the downside of full legalization is minimal, and the upside is a boost in the economy and tax revenues, not to mention cost savings on the justice system.  And this all comes with marginally more freedom for citizens.

The CO experiment has been pretty successful, and I think it's obvious that legalization will eventually be picked up nationwide.


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## Anathema (Sep 13, 2015)

IronFist said:


> What do you think about medical marijuana?



I don't believe there is any medical need for marijuana that cannot be covered by other medications. Therefore no need exists for medical marijuana.


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## S.J. (Sep 13, 2015)

Anathema said:


> IronFist said:
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Other medications that are far more harmful.


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## Anathema (Sep 13, 2015)

S.J. said:


> Other medications that are far more harmful.



Tell me how harmful Timolol, Latanaprost, and Xalatan are for Glaucoma users. Make sure you're certain because I use or have used all three.

As for pain/cancer issues... paun is a part of life and my plan for dealing with cancer involves a bullet to the head.


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## Moonglow (Sep 13, 2015)

IronFist said:


> What do you think about medical marijuana? Don't you think it's strange that it's getting legalized everywhere since recently? Some years ago potheads were laughing at and now it is completely okay to smoke weed almost everywhere. Sure thing it can be used for medical purposes but it seems like things are going way too fast. It can cause schizophrenia and make people addicted in no time.
> Maybe it's too early to legalize it? A question to pot smokers: how has marijuana improved your life?


How long have you been smoking or using a vap?


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## Moonglow (Sep 13, 2015)

Manonthestreet said:


> but it doesnt disqualify you from holding any jobs, so no


Sure it does, when you drink on the job...or come in drunk...well hungover...


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## Moonglow (Sep 13, 2015)

Anathema said:


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So what's keepin' ya?


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## Anathema (Sep 13, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> So what's keepin' ya?



I don't have cancer. My father did for three years abd there's no chance thst I will put myself through what he went through. He didn't take ANY pain meds until he was within 72 hours of his death and even then he only took non-prescription stuff. Advil I believe.


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## S.J. (Sep 13, 2015)

Anathema said:


> S.J. said:
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Cancer isn't the only condition in which marijuana is used.


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## Moonglow (Sep 13, 2015)

Anathema said:


> Moonglow said:
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## Anathema (Sep 13, 2015)

S.J. said:


> Cancer isn't the only condition in which marijuana is used.



It's also used for glaucoma, as I noted in my first paragraph a5bd for pain management as I noted wirh cancer.


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## Anathema (Sep 13, 2015)

Moonglow said:


>



It wasn't about bei g a tough guy. It was about not enduting the mental effects of the the drugs.


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## Moonglow (Sep 13, 2015)

Anathema said:


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Well the pain is no nirvana either..


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## Anathema (Sep 13, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> Well the pain is no nirvana either..



No it isn't. He chose to endure it as I have with certain things over the years. In his place my remedy is 230 grains of lead in .45 ACP up under the chin.


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## S.J. (Sep 13, 2015)

Anathema said:


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I'm sure you can find many medical conditions that can be treated by drugs other than marijuana but that's not a valid reason to keep it illegal.  Most prescription drugs have side effects, many of them harmful and if a condition can be treated by marijuana instead of something that makes you want to commit suicide, why deny a patient that option?  It's stupid.


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## Anathema (Sep 13, 2015)

S.J. said:


> I'm sure you can find many medical conditions that can be treated by drugs other than marijuana but that's not a valid reason to keep it illegal.  Most prescription drugs have side effects, many of them harmful and if a condition can be treated by marijuana instead of something that makes you want to commit suicide, why deny a patient that option?  It's stupid.



Marijuana has a horrific side effect..... it alters the mental chemistry and capacity of the user. It places them in a state which is not appropriate for any person not under direct, 24/7 medical supervision to be in (as do many other pain meds).


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## S.J. (Sep 13, 2015)

Anathema said:


> S.J. said:
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> > I'm sure you can find many medical conditions that can be treated by drugs other than marijuana but that's not a valid reason to keep it illegal.  Most prescription drugs have side effects, many of them harmful and if a condition can be treated by marijuana instead of something that makes you want to commit suicide, why deny a patient that option?  It's stupid.
> ...


Have you ever used it?


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## Anathema (Sep 13, 2015)

S.J. said:


> Have you ever used it?



No. Nor will I ever. Unfortunately I know far too many who do or have. In each of those cases the substance has lead to poor decision making and/or criminal activity.


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## CremeBrulee (Sep 13, 2015)

Anathema said:


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Like a decision between a BigMac or a salad?


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## Anathema (Sep 13, 2015)

CremeBrulee said:


> Like a decision between a BigMac or a salad?



No. Like the decision to go "apologize" to the ex who has a restraining order against her (DUI and Violation of a restraining order)

Cost a former college roommate of mine his education when he refused to remove it from the room and I turned his ass in.

Cost a high school clasemate of mine s six figure job when he failed a drug test he knew he'd have to take before showing up to the interview. 

A firmer high school classmare of my eife and thst girls boyfriend cost 6 Worcester, MA firefighters their lives when they left an accidentally starteed fire in an abandoned building and dudnt report it. The 6 furemen were in the building looking for the vagrants who started the fire.


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## chikenwing (Sep 13, 2015)

Anathema said:


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My suggestion to you don't use it,on the other hand butt the fuck out of other people's lives. Pot is much more effective for nausea, then the high dollar prescription drugs,that I take for chemo side effects, it a great appetite booster,calming, many mornings I need a little bit just so I can get the prescribed anti nausea drugs down.it works simple as that,I would suffer more without it.


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## Anathema (Sep 13, 2015)

chikenwing said:


> My suggestion to you don't use it,on the other hand butt the fuck out of other people's lives. Pot is much more effective for nausea, then the high dollar prescription drugs,that I take for chemo side effects, it a great appetite booster,calming, many mornings I need a little bit just so I can get the prescribed anti nausea drugs down.it works simple as that,I would suffer more without it.



I'll butt out of your lives on this issue when it's only available on an in-patient basis. Until then I don't believe it should be allowed. 

Pain is a part of life. There's akways my option if/when the pain gets too bad..... going out with a "bang"


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## S.J. (Sep 13, 2015)

Anathema said:


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Are you drunk?


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## S.J. (Sep 13, 2015)

Anathema said:


> chikenwing said:
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> > My suggestion to you don't use it,on the other hand butt the fuck out of other people's lives. Pot is much more effective for nausea, then the high dollar prescription drugs,that I take for chemo side effects, it a great appetite booster,calming, many mornings I need a little bit just so I can get the prescribed anti nausea drugs down.it works simple as that,I would suffer more without it.
> ...


You seem to be obsessed with suicide.  Is that your recommendation to everyone who experiences pain?


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## Anathema (Sep 13, 2015)

S.J. said:


> Are you drunk?



Nope. I don't drink, smoke or do drugs. I don't even use most non-prescription drugs.


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## Anathema (Sep 13, 2015)

S.J. said:


> You seem to be obsessed with suicide.  Is that your recommendation to everyone who experiences pain?



Its my recommendation to anyone who can't deal with the pain in their life.


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## S.J. (Sep 13, 2015)

Anathema said:


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That's what I thought.  Ever consider a psychiatrist?


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## Anathema (Sep 13, 2015)

S.J. said:


> That's what I thought.  Ever consider a psychiatrist?



Yep. They say there's nothing they can fix because I dont see anything wrong with myself.


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## Spinster (Sep 13, 2015)

I've know more stoners in my life, and I never care to even associate with any of them again, ever. What a complete bunch of losers. They are untrustworthy, uninitiated, unloyal, and unethical. They only care about themselves and their next high. I don't care what anyone says, smoking dope does lead to harder drugs. It offers no real medicinal value whatsoever, and those who say it does are just deceiving themselves into believing "it" helps. It does NOT.


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## S.J. (Sep 13, 2015)

Spinster said:


> I've know more stoners in my life, and I never care to even associate with any of them again, ever. What a complete bunch of losers. They are untrustworthy, uninitiated, unloyal, and unethical. They only care about themselves and their next high. I don't care what anyone says, smoking dope does lead to harder drugs. It offers no real medicinal value whatsoever, and those who say it does are just deceiving themselves into believing "it" helps. It does NOT.


If you're against it, don't use it.  Your problem is that you want to force your values onto everyone else.


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## chikenwing (Sep 13, 2015)

Spinster said:


> I've know more stoners in my life, and I never care to even associate with any of them again, ever. What a complete bunch of losers. They are untrustworthy, uninitiated, unloyal, and unethical. They only care about themselves and their next high. I don't care what anyone says, smoking dope does lead to harder drugs. It offers no real medicinal value whatsoever, and those who say it does are just deceiving themselves into believing "it" helps. It does NOT.


If you let,alcohol, sex,gambling, food......... Get the best of you yep your a mess,as far a value medically, you havnt a clue.


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## chikenwing (Sep 13, 2015)

Anathema said:


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Wow crawl back into your cage. Adults are talking


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## CremeBrulee (Sep 13, 2015)

Spinster said:


> I've know more stoners in my life, and I never care to even associate with any of them again, ever. What a complete bunch of losers. They are untrustworthy, uninitiated, unloyal, and unethical. They only care about themselves and their next high. I don't care what anyone says, smoking dope does lead to harder drugs. It offers no real medicinal value whatsoever, and those who say it does are just deceiving themselves into believing "it" helps. It does NOT.


Sounds like you are talking about crackheads.  Gateway drugs. Psh. Alcohol and tobacco are gateway drugs.  I don't see complaining about those leading to "hard core" drug use.


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## Spinster (Sep 13, 2015)

chikenwing said:


> Spinster said:
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> > I've know more stoners in my life, and I never care to even associate with any of them again, ever. What a complete bunch of losers. They are untrustworthy, uninitiated, unloyal, and unethical. They only care about themselves and their next high. I don't care what anyone says, smoking dope does lead to harder drugs. It offers no real medicinal value whatsoever, and those who say it does are just deceiving themselves into believing "it" helps. It does NOT.
> ...



Don't even go there! You haven't a clue what I've been through, so don't speculate on what I've dealt with medically. Tried it as I was desperate for relief, so I DO know first hand. Claiming it helps is just an excuse, and if there were evidence it did, the medical community would embrace it, which they do not.


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## Spinster (Sep 13, 2015)

CremeBrulee said:


> Spinster said:
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> > I've know more stoners in my life, and I never care to even associate with any of them again, ever. What a complete bunch of losers. They are untrustworthy, uninitiated, unloyal, and unethical. They only care about themselves and their next high. I don't care what anyone says, smoking dope does lead to harder drugs. It offers no real medicinal value whatsoever, and those who say it does are just deceiving themselves into believing "it" helps. It does NOT.
> ...



Okay, ah huh! Why do you think that even on Native American reservations where they legally sell alcohol and cigarettes, they frown so much on weed, that if someone living on tribal land is caught, they get kicked off. Their reasoning, not my own, is that smoking dope DOES lead to harder drug use. You are the one who doesn't know what you are talking about. Just trying to excuse whatever you happen to be into doesn't justify anything and certainly isn't factual.


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## S.J. (Sep 13, 2015)

Spinster said:


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They use peyote on Indian reservations.  Do you consider that a hard drug?


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## danielpalos (Sep 13, 2015)

IronFist said:


> What do you think about medical marijuana? Don't you think it's strange that it's getting legalized everywhere since recently? Some years ago potheads were laughing at and now it is completely okay to smoke weed almost everywhere. Sure thing it can be used for medical purposes but it seems like things are going way too fast. It can cause schizophrenia and make people addicted in no time.
> Maybe it's too early to legalize it? A question to pot smokers: how has marijuana improved your life?


It is great.  I am euphoric when about my chores, now.


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## Spinster (Sep 13, 2015)

S.J. said:


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Get serious. Don't know what you consider "hard" drugs, but the rest of the world thinks it's things like cocaine, heroin, pain drug abuse, just to name a few. Come on, knock off the bullshit!


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## S.J. (Sep 13, 2015)

Spinster said:


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Wow, you're really ignorant, aren't you?  Peyote is a dangerous drug.  It may not be addictive but that doesn't make it safe.


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## Spinster (Sep 13, 2015)

S.J. said:


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You're just a stoner in denial. Name calling? Really?? Stick and stones...


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## S.J. (Sep 13, 2015)

Spinster said:


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Irony.  You start flaming, then complain when I respond.  Fuck you, go take a peyote trip, since you think it's not a dangerous drug, idiot.


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## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

Maryland Patriot said:


> The only problem I have with the medical use is that for one, the number of things it treats is going to keep getting bigger. Like the poster above, insomnia.. LOL, how long did you have to search for that Doctor?
> and, the biggest issue is that once it is legal for medical use, then the users start fighting to get it paid for like a prescription, and its going to cost us all.
> now as far as it being addictive and causing schizophrenia??? Dont think so.
> Somebody watched Reefer Madness.



As long as it is illegal on the Federal list, insurance cos won't cover it.  And Big Pharma will always lobby against it, because the profit factor is minimal compared to the artificial chemical compounds they like to peddle.  Ever watch the evening news & count how many drug ads there are telling YOU to talk to your doctor & ask for more drugs?  I watch NBC, & there's no less than 6-7 ads on within a 30 min span.  That avgs out to 1 ad every 5 minutes. SOMEBODY has to pay for their peddling.  But,  I guess it's much better to have a script for Ambien or  Lunesta... which ARE addictive & the side effects are truly scary.

Ambien (zolpidem) is a sedative/hypnotic used for treating insomnia. A generic formulation is available. The most common side effects of Ambien (zolpidem) are drowsiness, dizziness, weakness, lightheadedness, "drugged" feeling, tiredness, loss of coordination, stuffy nose, dry mouth, sore throat, nausea, constipation, diarrhea, stomach upset, headache, or muscle pain. Other side effects of Ambien include confusion, insomnia, euphoria, ataxia (balance problems), and visual changes. Ambien can cause withdrawal symptoms (muscle cramps, sweats, shaking, and seizures)....


...Tell your doctor right away if any of these unlikely but serious side effects occur: memory loss, mental/mood/behavior changes (such as new/worsening depression, abnormal thoughts, thoughts of suicide, hallucinations, confusion, agitation, aggressive behavior, anxiety).
Rarely, after taking this drug, people have gotten out of bed and driven vehicles while not fully awake ("sleep-driving"). People have also sleepwalked, prepared/eaten food, made phone calls, or had sex while not fully awake. Often, these people do not remember these events. This problem can be dangerous to you or to others. If you find out that you have done any of these activities after taking this medication, tell your doctor right away. Your risk is increased if you use alcohol or other medications that can make you drowsy while taking zolpidem.

Side Effects of Ambien (Zolpidem Tartrate) Drug Center - RxList


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## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

Anathema said:


> IronFist said:
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Yes, man made chemicals are always better than what occurs naturally in nature for the same ailments.


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## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

Anathema said:


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That's nice.  You do that.  But others may have a need & want to live.  Without pain.  Without even more chemicals ravaging their already fragile bodies, to counteract the effects of chemotherapy.


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## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

Spinster said:


> I've know more stoners in my life, and I never care to even associate with any of them again, ever. What a complete bunch of losers. They are untrustworthy, uninitiated, unloyal, and unethical. They only care about themselves and their next high. I don't care what anyone says, smoking dope does lead to harder drugs. It offers no real medicinal value whatsoever, and those who say it does are just deceiving themselves into believing "it" helps. It does NOT.



Nicotine & alcohol are the true gateway drugs.


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## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)




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## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

Spinster said:


> Don't even go there! You haven't a clue what I've been through, so don't speculate on what I've dealt with medically. Tried it as I was desperate for relief, so I DO know first hand. Claiming it helps is just an excuse, *and if there were evidence it did, the medical community would embrace it, which they do not*.



*Legalize Medical Marijuana, Doctors Say in Survey*
By R. Scott Rappold
WebMD Health News
Reviewed by Michael W. Smith, MD 


April 2, 2014 -- A majority of doctors say that medical marijuana should be legalized nationally and that it can deliver real benefits to patients, a new survey by WebMD/Medscape finds.

WebMD’s web site for health professionals surveyed 1,544 doctors as more than 10 states consider bills to legalize medical marijuana. It is already legal in 21 states and Washington, DC.

The survey found solid support for those legalization efforts, with most doctors saying medical marijuana should be legal in their states. They agreed that medical marijuana should be an option for patients. The survey included doctors from more than 12 specialties and 48 states..."

Legalize Medical Marijuana, Doctors Say in Survey

*Organizations Supporting Access to Therapeutic Cannabis*
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Addiction Science Forum – 2009


AIDS Action Council – 1996

*Alaska Nurses Association – 1998

Alaska Voters – 1998

Alliance for Cannabis Therapeutics – 1981

+American Academy of Family Physicians – 1989, 1995

American Academy of HIV Medicine – 2003

American Anthropological Association – 2003

American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU)

American College of Physicians – 2008

American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees – 2006

American Medical Association’s Council on Scientific Affairs – 2001

American Medical Association’s Medical Student Section – 2008

American Medical Association’s Pacific Rim Caucus – 2008

Alaska Medical Association

Hawaii Medical Association

Guam Medical Association

American Medical Students Association – 1993

+*American Nurses Association – 2003

*American Preventive Medical Association – 1997

+*American Public Health Association (APHA) – 1995

Ann Arbor, MI – 2004

Arizona Voters – 1996 & 1998

+Association of Nurses in AIDS Care – 1999

Berkeley, CA – 1979

Breckenridge, CO – 1994

Burlington, VT – 1994 & 2004

California Academy of Family Physicians – 1996

California Democratic Party – 1993

California Legislative Council for Older Americans – 1993

+California Medical Association – 1994

California Nurses Association – 1995

California-Pacific Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church – 1996

California Pharmacists Association – 1997

California Voters – 1996

Cannabis Freedom Fund – 1996

Coalition for Rescheduling Cannabis – 2002

Colorado Voters – 2000

*Colorado Nurses Association – 1995

Columbia, MO – 2004

*+Connecticut Nurses Association – 2004

Contigo-Conmigo – 1997

Consumer Reports Magazine – 1997

Crescent Alliance Self Help for Sickle Cell – 1999

Cure AIDS now – 1991

Detroit, MI – 2004

District of Columbia Voters – 1999

+Episcopal Church of the U.S. – 1982

Farmacy – 1999

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Ferndale, MI – 2004

Florida Governor’s Red Ribbon Panel on AIDS – 1993

Florida Medical Association – 1997

Frisco, CO – 1994

Green Party – 1998

Hailey, ID – 2007

Hawaii Kokua Council of Senior Citizens – 2000

*Hawaii Legislature – 2000

*Hawaii Nurses Association – 1999

+HIV Medicine Association – 2006

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*Illinois Nurses Association – 2004

Institute of Medicine – 1982 & 1999

International Cannabis Alliance of Researchers and Educators (I-CARE) – 1992

Iowa Civil Liberties Union

Iowa Democratic Party – 1994 & 2000 & 2004

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Libertarian Party – 1999

Los Angeles County AIDS Commission – 1996

Lymphoma Foundation of America – 1997

Madison, WI – 1993, 2004

Maine AIDS Alliance – 1997

Maine Voters – 1999

Marin County, CA – 1993

+Medical Society of the State of New York – 2004

Michigan Democratic Party – 2008

Michigan Voters – 2008

Minnesota Democratic Farm-Labor Party – 1992

*Mississippi Nurses Association – 1995

Molaki Advertiser-News Editorial Staff – 1999

Montana Voters – 2006

Mothers Against Misuse and Abuse (MAMA) -1992

Multiple Sclerosis California Action Network (MS-CAN) – 1996

National Association for Public Health Policy – 1998

National Association of Attorneys General – 1983

National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers (NACDL)

National Association of People with AIDS – 1992

*National Nurses Society on Addictions (NNSA) – 1995

Nevada Voters – 1998

New England Journal of Medicine – 1997

New Hampshire Medical Association – 2003

New Jersey Nurses Association – 2002

New Mexico Legislature – 2007

New Mexico Medical Society – 2001

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*North Carolina Nurses Association – 1996

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Ohio Patient Network – 2001

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Oregon Green Party – 2001

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Patients Out of Time – 1995

Pennsylvania State Nurses Association – 2014

Physicians Association for AIDS Care

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San Francisco Medical Society – 1996

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+Texas Democratic Convention – 2004

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Traverse City, MI – 2004

Unitarian Universalist Association – 2004

United Methodist Church – 2004

+Union for Reform Judaism – 2003

Vermont Legislature – 2007

Veterans for Medical Marijuana Access – 2007

*Virginia Nurses Association – 1994, 2004

*Virginia Nurses Society on Addictions – 1993

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Washington Voters – 1998

Wisconsin Democratic Party – 1997& 2002

Wisconsin Public Health Association – 1999

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*Supporting Research*

American Academy of Addiction Psychiatry – 2000

+American Academy of Family Physicians – 1977

American Cancer Society – 1997

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*American Nurses Association, Congress of Nursing Practice – 1996

American Society of Addiction Medicine – 2000

+Association of Nurses in AIDS Care – 1999

+California Medical Association – 1997 & 2006

California Society of Addiction Medicine – 1997

+*Connecticut Nurses Association – 2004

+Council of Health Organizations – 1971

Federation of American Scientists – 1995

+HIV Medicine Association – 2006

+Medical Society of the State of New York – 2004

National Institute of Health Workshop on the Medical Utility of Marijuana – 1997

+Northern New England Psychiatric Society

+Texas Democratic Convention – 2004

Texas Medical Association – 2003

+Union for Reform Judaism – 2003

Wisconsin State Medical Society – 1998

Women of Reform Judaism – 2000

*No Criminal Penalty*

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+American Academy of Family Physicians – 1977

American Bar Association – 1977

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+*American Nurses Association – 2003

+American Public Health Association – 1971

American Social Health Association – 1974

+Association of Nurses in AIDS Care – 1999

+Berkeley, CA – 1972

Billy Graham Ministries – 1998

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+California Medical Association – 2006

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+*Connecticut Nurses Association – 2004

+Council of Health Organizations – 1971

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+Episcopal Church of the US – 1973

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+Northern New England Psychiatric Society

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+Texas Democratic Convention – 2004

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United Methodists – 1976

+Unitarian Universalist Association – 1970, 2002, 2004

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*Non-U.S. Organizations*

Arachnoiditis Trust, UK – 2000

Australian National Task Force on Cannabis – 1994

Australian Medical Association (New South Wales) – 1999

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British Medical Association – 1997

Bundesverband Poliomyelitis (Federal Union for Polio),

Germany – 1998

Canadian AIDS Society – 2004

Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police – 2001

Canadian Medical Association – 2001

Canadian Medical Association Journal – 2001

Canadian Medical Journal – 2001

Deutsche AIDS-Hilfe (German AIDS Support Organization) – 1998

Deutsche Epilepsievereinigung (German Association for Epilepsy) -1998

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Algesiology) -1998

Deutsche Gesellschaft für Drogen-und Suchtmedizin (German Society for Drug and Addiction Medicine) -1998

Deutsche Gesellschaft niedergelassener Ärzte zur

Versorgung HIV – 1998

French Ministry of Health – 1997

Health Canada – 1997

House of Lords (UK) Select Committee on Science and Technology – 1999

International Association for Cannabis as Medicine – 2000

Infizierter (German Working Group for Therapists of the HIV infected) –1999

Legalise Cannabis Alliance – 2000

New South Wales (Australia) Parliamentary Working Party on the Use of Cannabis for Medical Purposes – 2000

New Zealand Health Select Committee – 2003

Lancet (UK) – 1995, 1998

Medical Association of Jamaica – 2001

Medical Cannabis Research Foundation (UK) – 2000

National Commission on Ganja, Jamaica – 2001

National Council on Drug Abuse, Jamaica – 2001

Preventive Medical Center, Netherlands – 1993

Schmerztherapeutisches Kolloquium (Society for Pain Therapists) Germany – 1998

Stichting Institute of Medical Marijuana, Netherlands – 1993

United Church of Jamaica and Cayman Islands – 2000

Organizations Supporting Access to Therapeutic Cannabis | Medical Cannabis

*AND, many people may not know this... but the active compounds in cannabis has a US patent, meaning that the science is there to prove its medicinal properties.

Cannabinoids as antioxidants and neuroprotectants *
US 6630507 B1
Abstract
Cannabinoids have been found to have antioxidant properties, unrelated to NMDA receptor antagonism. This new found property makes cannabinoids useful in the treatment and prophylaxis of wide variety of oxidation associated diseases, such as ischemic, age-related, inflammatory and autoimmune diseases. The cannabinoids are found to have particular application as neuroprotectants, for example in limiting neurological damage following ischemic insults, such as stroke and trauma, or in the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease and HIV dementia. Nonpsychoactive cannabinoids, such as cannabidoil, are particularly advantageous to use because they avoid toxicity that is encountered with psychoactive cannabinoids at high doses useful in the method of the present invention. A particular disclosed class of cannabinoids useful as neuroprotective antioxidants is formula (I) wherein the R group is independently selected from the group consisting of H, CH3, and COCH3.

Patent US6630507 - Cannabinoids as antioxidants and neuroprotectants


----------



## Anathema (Sep 14, 2015)

playtime said:


> Yes, man made chemicals are always better than what occurs naturally in nature for the same ailments.



When that natural source creates the altered mental state that marijuana does, definitely.


----------



## jon_berzerk (Sep 14, 2015)

it is a federal crime


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## Anathema (Sep 14, 2015)

playtime said:


> That's nice.  You do that.  But others may have a need & want to live.  Without pain.  Without even more chemicals ravaging their already fragile bodies, to counteract the effects of chemotherapy.



Sorry but I cannot be held,responsible for the stupidity and cowardice of others.


----------



## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

Spinster said:


> Okay, ah huh! Why do you think that even on Native American reservations where they legally sell alcohol and cigarettes, they frown so much on weed, that if someone living on tribal land is caught, they get kicked off. Their reasoning, not my own, is that smoking dope DOES lead to harder drug use. You are the one who doesn't know what you are talking about. Just trying to excuse whatever you happen to be into doesn't justify anything and certainly isn't factual.



*South Dakota Indian Reservation Legalizes Marijuana*
South Dakota Indian Reservation Legalizes Marijuana

*Menominee tribal members approve on-reservation marijuana use*
Menominee tribe OK on-reservation marijuana use

Just as Colorado opened the door to legalize... more reservations will also come on board.


----------



## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> it is a federal crime



The Feds aren't going after business' in the states where it's declared legal & they also have lifted the 'illegality status' on reservations.


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## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

Anathema said:


> playtime said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, man made chemicals are always better than what occurs naturally in nature for the same ailments.
> ...



99% of the drugs out there have some sort of ' do not drive or operate machinery' disclaimer.  So using that as the reason not to have it available is ridiculous.


----------



## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

Anathema said:


> playtime said:
> 
> 
> > That's nice.  You do that.  But others may have a need & want to live.  Without pain.  Without even more chemicals ravaging their already fragile bodies, to counteract the effects of chemotherapy.
> ...



Nobody said you should.  But what's right for you doesn't dictate what's right for another... & visey-versey.


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## Anathema (Sep 14, 2015)

playtime said:


> 99% of the drugs out there have some sort of ' do not drive or operate machinery' disclaimer.  So using that as the reason not to have it available is ridiculous.



Which is,why I go out of my way to avoid them as much as possible as well. In 2003 I had 31 teeth extracted over 2 consecutive Mondays. My pain management..... 1 Advil every 6 hours and 2 before bed. I didn't drive any time i had the meds in my system.


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## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

Anathema said:


> playtime said:
> 
> 
> > 99% of the drugs out there have some sort of ' do not drive or operate machinery' disclaimer.  So using that as the reason not to have it available is ridiculous.
> ...



& I gave birth to my 7 1/2 lb. son without any epidurals.  But I wouldn't deny a woman in as much pain as me the opportunity to do what was necessary for her to get the job done.


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 14, 2015)

playtime said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > it is a federal crime
> ...



what gives the federal government the authority to simply "lift" enforcing law

and if that is good for the goose 

why is bad for the gander to do the same


----------



## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> playtime said:
> 
> 
> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...



Because there has to be an end decision, & the Feds will always have power over individual States.  That's why we are the UNITED States... not the' 50 States that share borders with each other.'  The feds should have as little authority as possible for Indian reservations anyway, since they are Sovereign Nations.  As for marijuana, it's illegality has more to do with anti-immigrant sentiment than it ever did about it's 'dangers'.  Do some research into it's history.


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 14, 2015)

playtime said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > playtime said:
> ...




the federal government is to uphold whatever is the law 

in fact officals take an oath promising to do so 

they have no authority to simply change  or ignore federal law


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## Anathema (Sep 14, 2015)

playtime said:


> & I gave birth to my 7 1/2 lb. son without any epidurals.  But I wouldn't deny a woman in as much pain as me the opportunity to do what was necessary for her to get the job done.



My apologies for missing the fact that you are female. I could gave saved us both the time and enedgy of this conversation if I had realized that. Bye.


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## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> playtime said:
> 
> 
> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...



Even on the local PD level, there is a certain amount of discretion.  Do you think prisons that are overcrowded as is, should house people with simple pot possession as they do with a rapist or murderer?


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## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

Anathema said:


> playtime said:
> 
> 
> > & I gave birth to my 7 1/2 lb. son without any epidurals.  But I wouldn't deny a woman in as much pain as me the opportunity to do what was necessary for her to get the job done.
> ...



AHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAA... Why is that?  Oh my, you just showed much more into your thinking & reasoning process' with that reply than anything else you've posted on this thread thus far...


----------



## Anathema (Sep 14, 2015)

playtime said:


> AHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAA... Why is that?  Oh my, you just showed much more into your thinking & reasoning process' with that reply than anything else you've posted on this thread thus far...



No jokes here. I don't discuss politics with women as they have no place in the political arena.

My reasoning abd thinking boil down to this..... Traditional Morals and Values. Nithing more.


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## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

Anathema said:


> playtime said:
> 
> 
> > AHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAA... Why is that?  Oh my, you just showed much more into your thinking & reasoning process' with that reply than anything else you've posted on this thread thus far...
> ...



LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Afraid a woman might put you in your place?


----------



## Anathema (Sep 14, 2015)

playtime said:


> Afraid a woman might put you in your place?



No. I just don't have the tine to waste conversing with someone whose viewpoint is,completely irrelevant.

I make no claims to be snything other than a misogynist. Just realize misogyny has existed long past the stone age.


----------



## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

Anathema said:


> playtime said:
> 
> 
> > Afraid a woman might put you in your place?
> ...



You too are a dying breed.  We got the vote a loooong time ago & have been heads of State without help from you or your kind.

*You, *my dear, have become the irrelevant one.


----------



## Moonglow (Sep 14, 2015)




----------



## Maryland Patriot (Sep 14, 2015)

Anathema said:


> playtime said:
> 
> 
> > AHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAA... Why is that?  Oh my, you just showed much more into your thinking & reasoning process' with that reply than anything else you've posted on this thread thus far...
> ...


seriously?
wow.


----------



## Anathema (Sep 14, 2015)

playtime said:


> You too are a dying breed.  We got the vote a loooong time ago & have been heads of State without help from you or your kind.
> 
> *You, *my dear, have become the irrelevant one.



I'm not your dear. The fact that misogyny is a dying philosophy is just ine more nail in humanity's coffin. Let me know how irrelevant people like me are when you meet your maker.


----------



## Anathema (Sep 14, 2015)

Maryland Patriot said:


> seriously?.



Yes. Seriously.


----------



## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

Anathema said:


> playtime said:
> 
> 
> > You too are a dying breed.  We got the vote a loooong time ago & have been heads of State without help from you or your kind.
> ...



Don't worry about my God, & I won't worry about yours.  But those that would want others repressed so they can feel superior will have to answer for it.


----------



## Anathema (Sep 14, 2015)

playtime said:


> Don't worry about my God, & I won't worry about yours.  But those that would want others repressed so they can feel superior will have to answer for it.



There is only ONE Divine Power and It has no use for people who cannot accept, embrace, and abide by their place in the world.


----------



## Spinster (Sep 14, 2015)

playtime said:


> Anathema said:
> 
> 
> > playtime said:
> ...



Oh, here we go with the old, woo is me, childbirth is THE most painful thing on the face of the earth and NOBODY has ever experienced that level of pain ever, bullshit. Get over it! I gave birth to two sons, never had an epidural with either nor anything for pain, and enjoyed a football game on TV. In fact my OB/GYN said I'd never be able to give birth naturally and it would require a C-section. Well that didn't happen. I've endured far greater pain with other maladies in my life than childbirth. It's simply a myth women come up with to manipulate men into believing, "see what YOU put poor little me through", and you WILL owe me for the rest of your days. Women like you make me ashamed of being classified as part of the species!


----------



## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

Anathema said:


> playtime said:
> 
> 
> > Don't worry about my God, & I won't worry about yours.  But those that would want others repressed so they can feel superior will have to answer for it.
> ...



LOL.  too late- for you....your place is back in the stone age.


----------



## Anathema (Sep 14, 2015)

playtime said:


> LOL.  too late- for you....your place is back in the stone age.



Actually my preference would be 12th Century Anglo-Norman Ireland. A much better time and place than where I am.


----------



## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

Spinster said:


> playtime said:
> 
> 
> > Anathema said:
> ...



Oh hush up & realize you have no comprehension reading skills..  Try reading why I said what I did you fool...   BTW,  I know you're just pissed because I shut you down with real facts from real links instead of the silly opines you like to rattle on about...because that is all you got. 

Sure sounded  like *you* want a little sympathy because of all the 'terrible things' that happened to you...wah wah fucking wah.


----------



## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

Anathema said:


> playtime said:
> 
> 
> > LOL.  too late- for you....your place is back in the stone age.
> ...



Ya, well you can't,  so deal with life & reality as it is today, because women  ain't going back to the barefoot, pregnant & stuck in the kitchen because that's all there is kind of life anymore.


----------



## Spinster (Sep 14, 2015)

playtime said:


> Spinster said:
> 
> 
> > playtime said:
> ...



No sympathy asked for nor suggested. You just don't want the world to know your "trickery" has been exposed. You have no facts and no intelligence, or you wouldn't post the lame shit you do. Now, look in the mirror and you'll see what shut down is all about. Might want to fuck yourself. Oops, appears you already did.


----------



## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

Spinster said:


> playtime said:
> 
> 
> > Spinster said:
> ...



My 'trickery'  wtf are you even blabbering about?  My facts?  You mean the facts from reputable sources?  Including the government?  Please, you are giving me an ache in my side from laughing too hard...


----------



## Anathema (Sep 14, 2015)

playtime said:


> Ya, well you can't,  so deal with life & reality as it is today, because women  ain't going back to the barefoot, pregnant & stuck in the kitchen because that's all there is kind of life anymore.



I jyst go out of my way to avoid businesses run by women, or staffed by them. I've been through 3 banks in the last 4 years for a,la k of male tellers. I almost always use the self-checkout due to a lack of male cashiers.

10 years I'd have agreed that womankind was beyond salvation byt I'm seeing more young women in recent years turning diwn the college path for the role of homemaker. It's not a total change in philosophy yet but the number of single women ten years my junior seems to be scaring many of these 20-somethings back into more traditional roles.


----------



## Zander (Sep 14, 2015)

my two cents...

In California we have a very good system. Marijuana is essentially legal in California. All you have to do is go to a "Weed Doctor"- there are literally hundreds of them advertising in dozens of publications and online. 

When you get to the ahem,  "doctor", simply check off a few "symptoms" from a prepared list (tip - migraine headaches are the most popular).  Pay your $35.00 -$50.00, get your card, and you're free to buy "medical marijuana" at any dispensary for one year.  It's a small hoop to jump through but it beats the hell out of more government intrusion.  

The pot at the dispensaries is labeled according to it's strain and potency. Some of the better dispensaries have the weed tested for potency. You can choose  from sativas, hybrids, or indicas. They also have edibles. It's all very transparent and easy to choose from.  Wanna get couch locked? Buy some dank indica like OG Kush. . Wanna feel creative? Try some Jack Herer sativa. Not sure? Try a hybrid like AK-47.  The choices are endless. 

The system in California works -I say leave it alone!!  Keep the government out of it! 

PS- I rarely smoke or use weed (maybe once or twice a year- usually at a rock concert!) . I think it's as addictive as cigarettes.


----------



## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

Anathema said:


> playtime said:
> 
> 
> > Ya, well you can't,  so deal with life & reality as it is today, because women  ain't going back to the barefoot, pregnant & stuck in the kitchen because that's all there is kind of life anymore.
> ...



I have nothing against homemaking & being a domestic engineer.  I've been one for the last 28 out of my 30 year (& counting)  marriage, but that was MY choice... not because I was forced into it.  That is the difference between your philosophy & mine.  Your attitude towards women in general is sickening & if you are alone, there's no doubt as to why.


----------



## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

Zander said:


> my two cents...
> 
> In California we have a very good system. Marijuana is essentially legal in California. All you have to do is go to a "Weed Doctor"- there are literally hundreds of them advertising in dozens of publications and online.
> 
> ...



You can become psychologically dependent on it... but that is not the same as physically addicted.  I smoked cigarettes for 26 years & was finally  able to quit & it  was the hardest thing I have ever done after trying several times.  This past summer marked 15 years I've been cigarette/smoke free & although it doesn't bother me to be around it, & I have no 'cravings' for it... I know if I took one puff off a butt, I'd be right back to a pack a day habit.  The withdrawal symptoms were really really hard to deal with & get over from.  I remember Ozzie Osborne saying it was harder for him to get off nicotine than it was heroin.


----------



## Anathema (Sep 14, 2015)

playtime said:


> I have nothing against homemaking & being a domestic engineer.  I've been one for the last 28 out of my 30 year (& counting)  marriage, but that was MY choice... not because I was forced into it.  That is the difference between your philosophy & mine.  Your attitude towards women in general is sickening & if you are alone, there's no doubt as to why.



So you've been a honemaker (Engineer in a job title requires a degree and certification twsting). Good for you. What i believe you're missing is that the same values which would require you to stay at home REQUIRE your husband to be sure he can provide for you. Even if that means working a,job he hates.

Ive been married for almist 15 months to a wonderful Puerto Rican woman whose only goal in life us,to be a wife, homemaker, and hopefully mother. It took me almost 40 years to find her but we're both very content with our situation.


----------



## S.J. (Sep 14, 2015)

playtime said:


> Anathema said:
> 
> 
> > playtime said:
> ...


He's living in the 50's.


----------



## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

Anathema said:


> playtime said:
> 
> 
> > I have nothing against homemaking & being a domestic engineer.  I've been one for the last 28 out of my 30 year (& counting)  marriage, but that was MY choice... not because I was forced into it.  That is the difference between your philosophy & mine.  Your attitude towards women in general is sickening & if you are alone, there's no doubt as to why.
> ...



Catch up... the term 'domestic engineer' has been around for years & means exactly what I said it means.  And no one 'required' me to stay home.  If I didn't want to, I wouldn't have.  but WE both believed ONE parent should be home when the youngin' was small & since my earning power wasn't as great as my husband, it was for ECONOMICAL reasons that it was me who stayed home & not him.  Since then, it has been my choice, but I can go out into the workforce anytime I want to.  It's better this way & it frees up my husband from doing a lot of little day to day details that need taking care of.


----------



## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

S.J. said:


> playtime said:
> 
> 
> > Anathema said:
> ...



Even earlier than that.  Women started joining the work force during WW2 when there were shortages all over of factory workers.  Some but not all returned back to the home after the war... but after that door opened up, it was never to be shut again.


----------



## Anathema (Sep 14, 2015)

playtime said:


> Catch up... the term 'domestic engineer' has been around for years & means exactly what I said it means.  And no one 'required' me to stay home.  If I didn't want to, I wouldn't have.  but WE both believed ONE parent should be home when the youngin' was small & since my earning power wasn't as great as my husband, it was for ECONOMICAL reasons that it was me who stayed home & not him.  Since then, it has been my choice, but I can go out into the workforce anytime I want to.  It's better this way & it frees up my husband from doing a lot of little day to day details that need taking care of.



Engineers are getting much mire protective of that term these days. Its actually one of only three professions,with a degree and testing requirement to use in the US. Doctors abd Lawyers are the other two. 

My wife and I believe that the one parent who should be home is the mother in 100% of situations. Youre right that it generally frees up the husband from having to deal with little details that are really part of maintaining the household rather than the home itself. My wife couldnt work even if she wanted to. Lack of a high school diploma and drivers license will do that to you.


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## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

Anathema said:


> playtime said:
> 
> 
> > Catch up... the term 'domestic engineer' has been around for years & means exactly what I said it means.  And no one 'required' me to stay home.  If I didn't want to, I wouldn't have.  but WE both believed ONE parent should be home when the youngin' was small & since my earning power wasn't as great as my husband, it was for ECONOMICAL reasons that it was me who stayed home & not him.  Since then, it has been my choice, but I can go out into the workforce anytime I want to.  It's better this way & it frees up my husband from doing a lot of little day to day details that need taking care of.
> ...



I don't doubt that for a second, & it answers what I already figured as much.


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## Muhammed (Sep 14, 2015)

When I was a kid my friends and I would play football, have sex with cheerleaders and smoke marijuana. Almost every day. That's the trifecta of favorite activities when we were teenagers. We didn't smoke dope to cure illnesses. We smoked it to get high.

Medical reasons? There is probably some thereputic reasons for toking a doobie, such as particular illnesses that create lack of appetite symptom. Obviously, marijuna use can give people the munchies, thus solving that problem. Especially patients suffering from Aquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome or digestive problems.

I don't see why it would be any different today. As I aged I stopped smoking the stuff for some reason. It just didn't affect me the same way. Either the marijuana changed, or perhaps I did, or maybe a combination of factors. 

What ever happened to Columbian gold? It appears that currently there isn't any of that around anymore. It's all Sensimilia or dirt weed.


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## Anathema (Sep 14, 2015)

playtime said:


> I don't doubt that for a second, & it answers what I already figured as much.



You may be interested to kbow that both are her choice. I've offered to assist her in getting her GED and her license. She's not interested as neither would really change her lifestyle much.


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## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

Anathema said:


> playtime said:
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> > I don't doubt that for a second, & it answers what I already figured as much.
> ...



Well, then she will be on welfare if something happens to you & that doesn't last forever.  She will have to get a job to earn her own keep.


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 14, 2015)

playtime said:


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i understand it is way above your reasoning 

so we will leave it at that


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## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


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Actually it is not.  But you didn't answer my question so we'll leave it at THAT.


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 14, 2015)

playtime said:


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actually it is above your head and out of your reach 

so claim the last post 

--LOL


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## playtime (Sep 14, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


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Like I said, they are using discretion in their pursuit of "offenders".

http://www.justice.gov/iso/opa/resources/3052013829132756857467.pdf


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## threegoofs (Sep 14, 2015)

playtime said:


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Yep. Almost always.

You can find atropine, opium, quinine, willow bark and cocaine in nature.

Man made analogs are much better and less toxic in all cases.


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## Anathema (Sep 15, 2015)

playtime said:


> Well, then she will be on welfare if something happens to you & that doesn't last forever.  She will have to get a job to earn her own keep.



She's already Permanently Disabled per the Social Security Administration so working is not likely. She would move back in with her parents or her brother and have a nice nest egg from my life insurance.


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## playtime (Sep 15, 2015)

threegoofs said:


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And I didn't say ALL natural remedies were better, did I?  but the poster I responded too eleded that ALL man made drugs were superior than something found in nature. If you thought I was talking about those kinds of chemicals you described, you are seriously mistaken.  I was talking about benign treatments like those practiced in Chinese herbal medicine or  what the indigenous peoples of South America  use.

I think a little a little pot brownie would have been much better for pregnant women with morning sickness than taking Thalidomide, don't you?

LOL.


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## playtime (Sep 15, 2015)

Anathema said:


> playtime said:
> 
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> > Well, then she will be on welfare if something happens to you & that doesn't last forever.  She will have to get a job to earn her own keep.
> ...



Well, good luck to the both of you & seems like you found what you were looking for, but if she is "permanently disabled", do you think having kids is a good idea? (I may or may not have read that correctly from you).

I don't really want an answer, but it's worth thinking about.


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## sealybobo (Sep 15, 2015)

Did


IronFist said:


> What do you think about medical marijuana? Don't you think it's strange that it's getting legalized everywhere since recently? Some years ago potheads were laughing at and now it is completely okay to smoke weed almost everywhere. Sure thing it can be used for medical purposes but it seems like things are going way too fast. It can cause schizophrenia and make people addicted in no time.
> Maybe it's too early to legalize it? A question to pot smokers: how has marijuana improved your life?


Did you just watch refer madness? Pot causes schizophrenia? I didn't know that.

We've been smoking pot for hundreds of years.  It should never have been made illegal. It's not addicting.

Is a person better off not smoking? Sure but cigarettes are worse so why ban pot and not cigs?

How does alcohol improve your life? It makes you feel good when you want to feel good. 

You don't know the truth about pot.

The government is dumb. If they let Marlboro sell 20 joints for $20 it would shut guys like me down. Hundreds of thousands of us sell pot and millions buy and uncle same not getting his cut.


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## Anathema (Sep 15, 2015)

playtime said:


> Well, good luck to the both of you & seems like you found what you were looking for, but if she is "permanently disabled", do you think having kids is a good idea? (I may or may not have read that correctly from you).
> 
> I don't really want an answer, but it's worth thinking about.



She is disabled due to PTSD issues, not physical ones. With her medication and therapy she lives a relatively average life.


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## playtime (Sep 15, 2015)

Anathema said:


> playtime said:
> 
> 
> > Well, good luck to the both of you & seems like you found what you were looking for, but if she is "permanently disabled", do you think having kids is a good idea? (I may or may not have read that correctly from you).
> ...



M'k.


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## threegoofs (Sep 15, 2015)

playtime said:


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I don't know specifically to what substances you are referring, but I'm guessing the vast majority of those also have a poor benefit to risk ratio.

And your analogy is not a good one. I can think of any number of naturally occurring compounds that are more toxic than thalidomide.  And for certain disorders, thalidomide is vastly superior to pot brownies.


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## playtime (Sep 15, 2015)

threegoofs said:


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Actually the Chinese have survived forever & the South American peoples who have not been exposed to 'modern man'  have gotten along quite nicely & also have survived without the need for 'better living thru chemistry'. A lot of medicines first came about using plants from the rain forest, but have fallen by the wayside for cheaper, easily obtained substances made in the lab- thus raising the profit factor for those drug companies.

Well, perhaps in the case of leprosy,  you are correct about the use of thalidomide... but not for a far more common ailment of morning sickness AS i have stated.  If cannibinol, the active compound in marijuana, had no medicinal value- the US Government wouldn't bother holding a patent on it, now would they?  the FDA & big Pharma are in bed together & there's a reason why it's not being marketed... ie...not as much profit to be made.


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## threegoofs (Sep 15, 2015)

playtime said:


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The Chinese have shorter lifespans than Americans.  Not sure any of them have lasted 'forever'.

The South Americans who have not been exposed to modern man also have quite short lifespans.

Again, the drugs that are in plants are vastly improved by a bit of medicinal chemistry, boosting both their efficacy and lessening their toxicity.   Nature generally doesnt place compounds in plants to make you feel better... they are usually in there to discourage you (or more likely, other thngs)  from eating them.

Cannabinol may have medicinal value.  The only way to know is to do extensive studies.  Anecdotes are suggestive, but not that helpful, especially if you want to compare it to rigorously tested modern drugs.

Yep,  The profit motive for looking at THC is minimal, and we probably wont get real extensive data  for a  lot of things.  But the absence of evidence is not evidence. And history tells us that there are lots of nasty surprises when you use drugs without extensive studies.


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## S.J. (Sep 15, 2015)

threegoofs said:


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They've been studying marijuana for nearly a century, (if not longer).  It's the most "studied" drug in the world.  Problem is, the only goals they have had until recently were to find something WRONG with it.  NOW they are finding that it has many beneficial uses.  Oops!

Cannabis reduces tumor growth in study


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## threegoofs (Sep 15, 2015)

S.J. said:


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Not really.   Just seeing how patients do on a drug isnt really rigorously 'studying it' and its not even close to being the 'most studied drug in the world' since most medical research on the drug has been banned for the last fifty years or so.  It used to be very, very hard to do any type of study using marijuana.  Now its just very hard- its still a federal Schedule 1 drug, you know.

And I wouldnt get real excited about tumor growth reductions.   Those studies tend to be pretty specific about concentrations and specific compounds - what they really do is define the roles of certain receptors in tumor growth,  which can be helpful.


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## playtime (Sep 15, 2015)

threegoofs said:


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Cannabinoids as antioxidants and neuroprotectants

*Abstract*

Cannabinoids have been found to have antioxidant properties, unrelated to NMDA receptor antagonism. This new found property makes cannabinoids useful in the treatment and prophylaxis of wide variety of oxidation associated diseases, such as ischemic, age-related, inflammatory and autoimmune diseases. The cannabinoids are found to have particular application as neuroprotectants, for example in limiting neurological damage following ischemic insults, such as stroke and trauma, or in the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease and HIV dementia. Nonpsychoactive cannabinoids, such as cannabidoil, are particularly advantageous to use because they avoid toxicity that is encountered with psychoactive cannabinoids at high doses useful in the method of the present invention. A particular disclosed class of cannabinoids useful as neuroprotective antioxidants is formula (I) wherein the R group is independently selected from the group consisting of H, CH.sub.3, and COCH.sub.3. ##STR1##

United States Patent: 6630507

60 Peer-Reviewed Studies on Medical Marijuana
Medical Studies Involving Cannabis and Cannabis Extracts (1990 - 2014)
60 Peer-Reviewed Studies on Medical Marijuana - Medical Marijuana - ProCon.org

*Clinical Studies and Case Reports*
On this site you will find clinical studies with cannabis or single cannabinoids in different diseases and case reports on the use of cannabis by patients.
You may search for diseases (indications), authors, medication, study design (controlled study, open trial, case report etc.) and other criteria.

Clinical Studies and Case Reports

Studies and Case Reports (additional link within the website above)

Beeinflussung des Krebswachstums durch Dronabinol


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## threegoofs (Sep 15, 2015)

playtime said:


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So?

Antioxidants are the biggest health food scam ever, and neuroprotectant properties are simple to show in cell cultures, but consistently fail in humans.   I've worked with many of them.

Antioxidants are found to be usually either worthless or harmful - and when you hear that, or 'boosts your immune system'  thats the biggest red flag in the world.


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## playtime (Sep 15, 2015)

threegoofs said:


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Have you ever paid attention to the side effects of the drug ads on TV?
I LOVE the ones that say 'may cause death'
Give me a break...


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## Moonglow (Sep 15, 2015)

playtime said:


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I only will take the ones that give you permanent damage to the rectum and spleen..


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## threegoofs (Sep 15, 2015)

playtime said:


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I do more than pay attention to them.  I'm involved in the language around what they say, for both safety and efficacy of the drugs.  I'm a pharmacologist by training.  And death is an adverse effect of many drugs.  Natural products often have an increased incidence of things like death, too.  They just dont have to say it on TV, so the foolish think 'natural' means 'safe'.


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## S.J. (Sep 15, 2015)

threegoofs said:


> *Not really. Just seeing how patients do on a drug isnt really rigorously 'studying it' and its not even close to being the 'most studied drug in the world' since most medical research on the drug has been banned for the last fifty years or so.* It used to be very, very hard to do any type of study using marijuana. Now its just very hard- its still a federal Schedule 1 drug, you know.
> 
> And I wouldnt get real excited about tumor growth reductions. Those studies tend to be pretty specific about concentrations and specific compounds - what they really do is define the roles of certain receptors in tumor growth, which can be helpful.


Links?


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## threegoofs (Sep 15, 2015)

S.J. said:


> threegoofs said:
> 
> 
> > *Not really. Just seeing how patients do on a drug isnt really rigorously 'studying it' and its not even close to being the 'most studied drug in the world' since most medical research on the drug has been banned for the last fifty years or so.* It used to be very, very hard to do any type of study using marijuana. Now its just very hard- its still a federal Schedule 1 drug, you know.
> ...


Links for what?  It's all readily searchable on the Google.


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## S.J. (Sep 15, 2015)

threegoofs said:


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Or so you say.


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## S.J. (Sep 15, 2015)

threegoofs said:


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You made the claim, you provide the links.


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## threegoofs (Sep 15, 2015)

S.J. said:


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If I recall, YOU made the claim that it was 'the most researched drug in history'.  Didn't see a link.


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## S.J. (Sep 15, 2015)

threegoofs said:


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You didn't ask for one but you've made a lot of claims without one single link.

There’s Been Over 20,000 Studies On Marijuana; What Is It That Scientists ‘Do Not Yet Know?’ | NORML Blog, Marijuana Law Reform

Marijuana Backed By More Studies Than Most Pharma Drugs


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## threegoofs (Sep 15, 2015)

S.J. said:


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Brain


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## S.J. (Sep 15, 2015)

threegoofs said:


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You don't have anything, do you?


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 15, 2015)

S.J. said:


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i have read that cannabis can have effects on suppressing the immune system 

which  may be good for things like psoriasis 

but on the other hand increases the risk of certain types of cancers


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## S.J. (Sep 15, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


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That may be, but shit, If we made everything that increases the risk of cancer illegal, the grocery stores would be full of empty shelves.


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 15, 2015)

S.J. said:


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sometimes your immune system is what keeps cancers at bay 

suppressing it is not always wise


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## chikenwing (Sep 15, 2015)

Spinster said:


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I live the evidence evey day,ever single day ,I would suffer more without it,why would you take that from someone,what excuse do you have?


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## S.J. (Sep 15, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


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But thanks to politics, there's been so much disinformation we don't know what is true and what isn't.


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## threegoofs (Sep 15, 2015)

S.J. said:


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Besides 30 years experience in pharmacology?


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## threegoofs (Sep 15, 2015)

S.J. said:


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I never said make it illegal.

But let's not pretend it's some cure all medication.  It's a recreational drug that can make some people feel better.


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## Moonglow (Sep 15, 2015)

threegoofs said:


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And how much experimenting did you do with pharmacology?


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 15, 2015)

threegoofs said:


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there are a couple of name brand cannabis meds approved by e government 

that do help some folks during cancer treatments


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## S.J. (Sep 15, 2015)

threegoofs said:


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No one claimed that.


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## threegoofs (Sep 15, 2015)

S.J. said:


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Let's see. 'Most studied drug evah!', slows cancer!  Antioxidant!

I  guess it's just an ordinary wonder drug.


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## S.J. (Sep 15, 2015)

threegoofs said:


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Show us where someone called it a wonder drug.  Then post some links to your claims and some proof of your "expertise" in the field of medicine you claim you have.


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## playtime (Sep 16, 2015)

threegoofs said:


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You seem to think that IS what I think & I NEVER said such a thing. So don't put words in my mouth. I know you'll probably not bother to go back & look--- but in post #75---what I DID say in response to the old man was:

Anathema said:               

I don't believe there is any medical need for marijuana that cannot be covered by other medications. *Therefore no need exists for medical marijuana.*

Playtime said:
_
*Yes, man made chemicals are always better than what occurs naturally in nature for the same ailments.*_

You did not see the obvious sarcasm in that reply?  Perhaps if I included a little 'eyes rolling in the back of my head' emoji?

Good lord...  Yes, there are dangers with SOME natural occurring substances & there sure as hell are with most, if not all, man made crap... THAT was the point I was trying to make.  If there is a natural remedy that can do the job, just as well... without as much or no risk of toxic/adverse side effects... why not go with that instead?

THAT is why I mentioned Ambien/Lunesta's potential side effects... which is a much more dangerous drug used as a SLEEP AID, than taking a few hits off a joint... & also used the thalidomide/pot brownie comparison for MORNING SICKNESS.

I do hope that clears that up for you.


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## playtime (Sep 16, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


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Perhaps if it is smoked, then the risk of cancer rises, but there are several ways (other than smoking it ) to ingest it.  You're always gonna get the ' your doctor prescribed this med because he/she feels the benefits outweigh the risk...'   disclaimer included in the little pamphlet that accompanies a lot of prescriptions.

One of the current meds for psoriasis is Enbrel & this is the info on side effects with that:

*Enbrel Side Effects Center*
 Charles Patrick Davis, MD, PhD

Enbrel in Detail with Side Effects
_ Last reviewed on RxList 2/20/2015 _

Enbrel (etanercept) is a tumor necrosis factor inhibitor used to treat certain autoimmune disorders such as rheumatoid arthritis, juvenile idiopathic arthritis, ankylosing spondylitis, and plaque psoriasis. There is no generic Enbrel available currently.

*Side effects* of Enbrel include mild nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, stomach pain, headache, redness or discomfort at the injection site, heartburn, weight changes, cold symptoms (cough, runny nose) and weakness.
*
Serious side effects* include seizures, bruising or bleeding, skin changes (rash, pustules or blisters), swelling, difficulty breathing or swallowing, paresthesia, vision changes, weakness and/or dizziness....

Warnings are given for Enbrel use; *Enbrel users are at increased risk for developing serious infections that may lead to hospitalization or death and for the development of lymphoma and other malignancies and death in children and adolescent patients treated with TNF blockers, including Enbrel. *Patients receiving cyclophosphamide therapy are not recommended to use Enbrel and patients should not obtain any live vaccine while taking Enbrel. There are no studies available on Enbrel use in pregnant or breastfeeding women or their infants.

Side Effects of Enbrel (Etanercept) Drug Center - RxList


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## threegoofs (Sep 16, 2015)

Again, a list of adverse events. 

Something you won't get with marijuana, because the depth of studies haven't been done, and no labeling is required. 

If one did have a list, it would be pretty extensive, and emphasize respiratory diseases and psychological disorders, both strongly associated with MJ use.
Enbrel, on the other hand, is a drug which which often restores a significant quality of life in very, very ill patients.


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## playtime (Sep 16, 2015)

threegoofs said:


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And yet you are concluding that we said that. 

We did not. 

You were wrong in that speculating.


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## threegoofs (Sep 16, 2015)

playtime said:


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So is marijuana, or any of the substances in marihuana a teratogen in administered doses?

Can you point to the studies that clarify this, and to the appropriate dosage used for morning sickness

You can't, because we don't know. 

MJ could very well be as teratogenic as thalidomide- no one, I'm sure, has ever done a controlled trial- I'm guessing this includes animal studies.


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## playtime (Sep 16, 2015)

threegoofs said:


> Again, a list of adverse events.
> 
> Something you won't get with marijuana, because the depth of studies haven't been done, and no labeling is required.
> 
> ...



You haven't addressed my other post where you seem to think I said ALL natural remedies are better & how I certainly did not say that.

As far as Enbrel or Ambien or Thalidomide... there's not a lot of side effects that can be worse than  cancer/death.   If you want to discuss 'psychological'  effects, then you must also include benzos, &  SSRIs... other psychotropics like Haldol...


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 16, 2015)

playtime said:


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Enbrel is also an immune suppressor which goes back to my first post 

that in certain cases cannabis has been found to suppress the immune system 

and suppressing the immune system has been known to cause cancers


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## threegoofs (Sep 16, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


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Yep. But the relationship with cannabis isnt that straightforward.  Immune system effects are extremely complicated.. in fact, if you 'inhibit' the immune system with a drug like ipilumumab which blocks an antigen, you actually will stimulate the action of killer -T cells (also a part of the immune system) and thus help treat cancer.  Is that suppressing the immune system, or 'boosting' it?   Those terms are almost meaningless, although you hear them thrown around a lot.

It is clear, though, that smoking will lead to increased cancer, but thats probably true of any burned plant material ingested into the lungs (even if its 'natural'!  )  

The point is that marijuana ingestion has many unknown toxicities and effects in disease, and medicinal use of it might well make people feel better, but it may not be doing a damn thing for the actual disease, or leading to harm.


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## playtime (Sep 16, 2015)

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Still nothing about how I never said all natural remedies are always superior.


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## S.J. (Sep 16, 2015)

I would like to hear about some of the wonderful benefits of alcohol.  And please include the side effects.


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## threegoofs (Sep 16, 2015)

S.J. said:


> I would like to hear about some of the wonderful benefits of alcohol.  And please include the side effects.



I have a feeling if it was outlawed, people would be clamoring to get medical use for alcohol just like they are for marijuana.


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## sealybobo (Sep 16, 2015)

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People who smoke a pack of cigs a day get cancer. People who smoke a joint or two a day do not.


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## playtime (Sep 16, 2015)

sealybobo said:


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*just ask willie nelson....*


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## threegoofs (Sep 16, 2015)

Re


sealybobo said:


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Really?  Low doses of MJ are protective against cancer?

I bet certain people are going to demand references.


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## sealybobo (Sep 16, 2015)

threegoofs said:


> Re
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What do you mean protective? The risks are negligible. Low. Not so bad they should ban pot. Cell phones are just as dangerous. You want to ban those? How about microwave ovens?

I've been smoking for 25 years. If they should ban anything its cigarettes.


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## threegoofs (Sep 16, 2015)

sealybobo said:


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You said you 'don't get cancer' that infers a protective effect, since cancer is an endemic disease.

If you mean 'doesn't increase the risk for cancer', I'm afraid you'll need to produce evidence.  And when you ask the guys who study cancer, they may have a different opinion.

Cannabis and Cannabinoids


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## sealybobo (Sep 16, 2015)

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A joint or two a day keeps the doc away.


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## sealybobo (Sep 16, 2015)

And so what if they cause cancer. So do cigarettes and they are much more harmful and full of carcinogens. So ban cigs or legalize pot if that's your only argument.


----------



## threegoofs (Sep 16, 2015)

sealybobo said:


> threegoofs said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


Until you start chemo, I guess.


----------



## sealybobo (Sep 16, 2015)

threegoofs said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > threegoofs said:
> ...


Keep talking on a cellphone until you get a brain tumor.


----------



## jon_berzerk (Sep 16, 2015)

sealybobo said:


> threegoofs said:
> 
> 
> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...



get the facts pothead 

*Marijuana Smoke*
*Smoke is harmful to lung health*. Whether from burning wood, tobacco or marijuana, toxins and carcinogens are released from the combustion of materials. Smoke from marijuana combustion has been shown to contain many of the same toxins, irritants and carcinogens as tobacco smoke.4-7

Beyond just what's in the smoke alone, marijuana is typically smoked differently than tobacco. Marijuana smokers tend to inhale more deeply and hold their breath longer than cigarette smokers, which leads to a greater exposure per breath to tar.8

*Secondhand marijuana smoke contains many of the same toxins and carcinogens found in directly inhaled marijuana smoke,* in similar amounts if not more.5 While there is no data on the health consequences of breathing secondhand marijuana smoke, there is concern that it could cause harmful health effects, especially among vulnerable children in the home. Additional research on the health effects of secondhand marijuana smoke is needed.

Marijuana and Lung Health - American Lung Association


----------



## jon_berzerk (Sep 16, 2015)

threegoofs said:


> Re
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> ...



why bother chronic users just believe things like that


----------



## S.J. (Sep 17, 2015)

threegoofs said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> > I would like to hear about some of the wonderful benefits of alcohol.  And please include the side effects.
> ...


You have a habit of ducking questions.  You make a lot of claims but you have yet to back any of them up.  When it comes right down to it, you really don't have much to contribute in the way of a credible argument.


----------



## sealybobo (Sep 17, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > threegoofs said:
> ...


Make camp fires illegal


----------



## TyroneSlothrop (Sep 17, 2015)

IronFist said:


> Maybe it's too early to legalize it? A question to pot smokers: how has marijuana improved your life?


How has booze improved your life.....


----------



## playtime (Sep 17, 2015)

*Dave's not here....*


----------



## jon_berzerk (Sep 17, 2015)

sealybobo said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



i didnt say anything about making something legal or illegal 


i just dont like those that "pretend" that pot is as safe as babies milk


----------



## sealybobo (Sep 17, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...


Not saying that.  I thought about you while driving for lunch.  If a person only smoked 1 or 2 cigarettes a day, they could probably live a long healthy life.  That 10 minutes out of 24 hours ain't what's killing people.  It's 20 cigs a day, over 10 or more years.  I need to quit smoking cigs.

Of course putting smoke in your lungs isn't ideal but I'd rather limit carbon emissions and I think that would make us all a lot safer so we can afford to go out and smoke a joint once a day or night whichever you prefer.  LOL


----------



## Avorysuds (Sep 17, 2015)

IronFist said:


> What do you think about medical marijuana? Don't you think it's strange that it's getting legalized everywhere since recently? Some years ago potheads were laughing at and now it is completely okay to smoke weed almost everywhere. Sure thing it can be used for medical purposes but it seems like things are going way too fast. It can cause schizophrenia and make people addicted in no time.
> Maybe it's too early to legalize it? A question to pot smokers: how has marijuana improved your life?




All drugs should be legal, there is simply no coherent argument as to why they shouldn't be. 

Name the drug that shouldn't be legal and I'll show you a meaningful % of the population that uses it anyways... Meaning making them illegal simply artificially increased prices.

Making drugs illegal has only made HC more un-accessible, thanks to Government. If you want more information on any given drug, legalize it. If you want drugs to be more affordable, legalize it.


----------



## foggedinn (Sep 17, 2015)

It should never been banned for medical purposes. The decision to ban it was political in nature. 
 The current push for medical pot is a sideways political strategy for general usage. All these problems caused by our draconian attempts to use the police to stop pot are futile and should be stopped.


----------



## jon_berzerk (Sep 18, 2015)

sealybobo said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...




there are a lot of things besides smoking that contributes to  lung problems 

many people are genetically predisposed to certain problems 

you always hear about the grannie that lived to 95 and smoked two packs a day who died of old age 

or the person who never smoked that lung cancer took em out at 40


----------



## playtime (Sep 18, 2015)

_....class.....class....._*SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*..._thank-you...._


----------



## ChrisL (Sep 18, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...



I think it's probably safer than alcohol in many ways.  It is silly to make smoking a joint after work illegal but you can go out and get drunk anywhere.


----------



## sealybobo (Sep 18, 2015)

ChrisL said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


20 years ago I got a drunk driving and pot is how I stopped drinking.

OK I drink once a week at my poker game but that's it.

Everything in moderation.


----------



## jon_berzerk (Sep 20, 2015)

ChrisL said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...




no such thing as a safer intoxicant


----------



## quorthon (Sep 21, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> no such thing as a safer intoxicant


So maybe you think it's as harmful as heroin? Have you ever felt an interest in reading/watching the results of some scientific research on pot?


----------



## jon_berzerk (Sep 21, 2015)

quorthon said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > no such thing as a safer intoxicant
> ...



in some cases it may be more harmful 

take for example you underestimating the danger of pot over heroine 

" oh it  is okay it is only weed"


----------



## Syriusly (Sep 22, 2015)

IronFist said:


> What do you think about medical marijuana? Don't you think it's strange that it's getting legalized everywhere since recently? Some years ago potheads were laughing at and now it is completely okay to smoke weed almost everywhere. Sure thing it can be used for medical purposes but it seems like things are going way too fast. It can cause schizophrenia and make people addicted in no time.
> Maybe it's too early to legalize it? A question to pot smokers: how has marijuana improved your life?



How has wine improved someone's life?

Or beer? 

How has pot harmed your life?


----------



## Syriusly (Sep 22, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> quorthon said:
> 
> 
> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...



What cases?

Compare pot to heroine. 

Pot- essentially almost impossible to die from an overdose of pot.
Heroine- not only possible to die of an over dose of pot- there is a big problem with that happening right now.
Pot- addiction risk- mild
Heroine- addiction risk- high
Pot- addiction withdrawel symptoms- irritability, difficulty sleeping.
Heroine addiction withdrawel symptoms- can include death.


----------



## jon_berzerk (Sep 22, 2015)

Syriusly said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > quorthon said:
> ...




personally i do not care if you smoke weed  shoot heroine or snort meth or get piss your pants  drunk 

they are all poisons to the system and are harmful if abused 

so just stop with the misleading posts that pot is safe


----------



## TyroneSlothrop (Sep 22, 2015)

Marijuana is not a poison to the system.....


----------



## quorthon (Sep 22, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> in some cases it may be more harmful
> take for example you underestimating the danger of pot over heroine
> " oh it  is okay it is only weed"


Oh, what a bad example, I think it's not so harmful as heroin and that's why it is more harmful than heroin? Get a clue.


jon_berzerk said:


> personally i do not care if you smoke weed  shoot heroine or snort meth or get piss your pants  drunk
> they are all poisons to the system and are harmful if abused
> so just stop with the misleading posts that pot is safe


But you still have said nothing except 'harm', 'harmful', 'poison'. Tell how pot interferes health, give proof and people will respect your opinion.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop (Sep 22, 2015)

jon_berzerk said:


> personally i do not care if you smoke weed  shoot heroine or snort meth or get piss your pants  drunk
> 
> they are all poisons to the system and are harmful if abused
> 
> so just stop with the misleading posts that pot is safe





*5 of the Latest Marijuana Studies That Upend Decades of Myths and Fearmongering  Paul Armentano *


----------



## jon_berzerk (Sep 22, 2015)

quorthon said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > in some cases it may be more harmful
> ...




all intoxicants are harmful 

maybe a quick google of intoxicant may assist you 

[paste:font size="5"]*Definitions (2)General: Substance which when taken into a body by one mean or another produces a condition of diminished mental and physical ability, hyperexcitability, or stupefaction. Commonly, a beverage is classified as an intoxicating when its alcoholic content is 0.5 percent or more.
2.Medicine: Substance that poisons or produces symptomsof poisoning in a body. From Greek 'toxicon,' poison.
*
so no matter how you piss and moan 

weed like other drugs is an intoxicant 

which is harmfu*l 
*

*


*


----------



## TyroneSlothrop (Sep 22, 2015)

Is coffee harmful ? , that is a drug called "caffeine"

Marijuana
 evaluation of this same cohort [male subjects who consumed cannabis between the ages of 15 and 26] published in August in the journal _Psychology of Addictive Behaviors_ reported that younger pot smokers were no more likely than their non-smoking peers to experience physical or mental health issues later in life. The finding defied researchers’ presumptions, as they acknowledged that their motivation for conducting the study was to "provide empirical evidence regarding the potential adverse consequences of marijuana legalization."


----------



## danielpalos (Sep 22, 2015)

What if a person eats raw cannabis after smoking two joints?


----------



## Jarlaxle (Sep 26, 2015)

Anathema said:


> playtime said:
> 
> 
> > I don't doubt that for a second, & it answers what I already figured as much.
> ...



I figured...only a brainwashed nut would marry someone as unstable as you.  Mail-order bride, right?


----------



## Jarlaxle (Sep 26, 2015)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Is coffee harmful ? , that is a drug called "caffeine"



No...but keeping me AWAY from coffee can be harmful!


----------



## Jarlaxle (Sep 26, 2015)

S.J. said:


> Anathema said:
> 
> 
> > CremeBrulee said:
> ...



No, he is psychopathic.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop (Sep 26, 2015)

Some people take "coffee enemas" .  I am not one .  I may wake up at the crack of dawn but  I drink my coffee ...


----------



## Jarlaxle (Sep 26, 2015)

Anathema said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> > Have you ever used it?
> ...



I suspect you would be a riot after eating a pot brownie. (Or with some LSD in your iced tea.)


----------



## Anathema (Sep 26, 2015)

Jarlaxle said:


> I suspect you would be a riot after eating a pot brownie. (Or with some LSD in your iced tea.)



Thankfully that will never happen, so you'll never know.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Sep 26, 2015)

Spiking a drink with LSD (or just about anything else) takes two seconds...


----------



## Anathema (Sep 26, 2015)

Jarlaxle said:


> I figured...only a brainwashed nut would marry someone as unstable as you.  Mail-order bride, right?



Nope. Puerto Rican. Born in NYC. Definitely much more Traditional than most of the rest of her family long before she approched me on a well known national dating site.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Sep 26, 2015)

And a mental case...yeah, a doormat sounds about your speed. (Well, until she turns into a bunny boiler.)


----------



## Anathema (Sep 26, 2015)

Jarlaxle said:


> And a mental case...yeah, a doormat sounds about your speed. (Well, until she turns into a bunny boiler.)



She has nowhere to go snd nothing to support her if this were to end, so I'm not concerned about that.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Sep 26, 2015)

You said yourself she gets disability...that and your life insurance would probably let her live fairly well.


----------



## Anathema (Sep 26, 2015)

Jarlaxle said:


> You said yourself she gets disability...that and your life insurance would probably let her live fairly well.



Not really. Her monthly disability check is less than I make in a week. 

Assuming she lives another 40 years, and pays off the $10,000 she has in debt first, she'd have about $240,000 (before taxes) plus about $10,000 a year to live on. She doesn't drive and has no ability to hold a job.

She would not be able to live anywhere near the lifestyle that we live now.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Sep 26, 2015)

You forgot what else she would get...section 8 housing food stamps, probably cash assistance.

And, of course, the insurance policy she took out on you............


----------



## Anathema (Sep 26, 2015)

Jarlaxle said:


> You forgot what else she would get...section 8 housing food stamps, probably cash assistance.
> 
> And, of course, the insurance policy she took out on you............



You overestimate what thise programs provide. She was on most of that before she met me. Section 8 can take up to 5 years to find you housing. Even with all of those things she'd be bringing in less than hslf of what I make per month.

As for the insurance comment..... she wouldn't know where or how to do that. Nevermind have the money to pay the premiums.


----------



## MarathonMike (Sep 26, 2015)

Medical marijuana should be engineered to reduce the THC content if it is truly meant for medicinal purposes.


----------



## danielpalos (Sep 26, 2015)

MarathonMike said:


> Medical marijuana should be engineered to reduce the THC content if it is truly meant for medicinal purposes.


Shell games with statism is how we got that paradigm.  

We have a Commerce Clause, implied and express.


----------



## Metal-Tiger (Jan 26, 2016)

MarathonMike said:


> Medical marijuana should be engineered to reduce the THC content if it is truly meant for medicinal purposes.












In 5 minutes , I'll be having a few bong hits , of high THC domestic herb . It helps relieve my arthritis pain . . . acts as a muscle relaxer and I believe improves blood flow at the capillary level .


----------



## jon_berzerk (Jan 26, 2016)

medical weed should be gotten through a pharmacy like any other prescribed dope


----------



## Agit8r (Jan 27, 2016)

IronFist said:


> It can cause schizophrenia and make people addicted in no time.



myths


----------



## Muhammed (Jan 27, 2016)

jon_berzerk said:


> medical weed should be gotten through a pharmacy like any other prescribed dope


In my opinion tt should be legal to grow at home for folks with a green thumb.

I used to work for a guy who ran his concrete business out of his home. One year he grew this marijuana plant in his back yard that was about 9 feet tall and so bushy that it looked like some sort of weird bushy tree. When it started flowering I could smell it from a mile away. Skunk weed.

I would usually show up to work before dawn in the fall. And that plant would literally sparkle in the moonlight like new fallen snow on a cold winter night.. The resins from the flowers would crystallize in the coldest hours of the early morning before sunrise. It was absolutely beautiful. I wish I would have had a camera with me. But in those days cell phones were very rare, and cell phones with built-in  cameras were non-existent AFAIK. It would have taken a skilled  professional photographer to capture that on film.

When it was time to harvest that thing it took 5 of us several hours to pluck all of the buds off of it.


----------



## jon_berzerk (Jan 27, 2016)

Muhammed said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > medical weed should be gotten through a pharmacy like any other prescribed dope
> ...




well that is different then "medical weed" as opposed to just legal weed 

home growing weed for medical purposes would be the same as home  growing poppies to develop heroin


----------



## Metal-Tiger (Jan 27, 2016)

jon_berzerk said:


> Muhammed said:
> 
> 
> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...


  Many have died while waiting on our governments - fed. and state to end their now over 75 year war on citizens who find value in marijuana . Plus no one has ever died of marijuana OD as compared to your example - opium .


----------



## Arianrhod (Jan 27, 2016)

IronFist said:


> What do you think about medical marijuana? Don't you think it's strange that it's getting legalized everywhere since recently? Some years ago potheads were laughing at and now it is completely okay to smoke weed almost everywhere. Sure thing it can be used for medical purposes but it seems like things are going way too fast. It can cause schizophrenia and make people addicted in no time.
> Maybe it's too early to legalize it? A question to pot smokers: how has marijuana improved your life?



You titled this "medical marijuana" and then jumped right into a discussion of recreational marijuana.  Do you not understand the differences?


----------



## Metal-Tiger (Jan 27, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> You titled this "medical marijuana" and then jumped right into a discussion of recreational marijuana. Do you not understand the differences?


In regard to freedom and our federal government's responsibilities to guard our rights to life , liberty and pursuit of happiness . . . . what difference does it make ?


----------



## Arianrhod (Jan 27, 2016)

Metal-Tiger said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > You titled this "medical marijuana" and then jumped right into a discussion of recreational marijuana. Do you not understand the differences?
> ...



As evident from the tenor of the conversation in this thread, the difference is that many people here don't know the difference, and it's that level of ignorance that created the resistance around medical marijuana for decades, causing unnecessary suffering and even death for patients who would otherwise have benefited from it.


----------



## Metal-Tiger (Jan 27, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> for decades, causing unnecessary suffering and even death for patients who would otherwise have benefited from it.


You seem to be under the impression that our fed. gov. cares about we citizens . That is a dangerously false premise .   I could list you a long roster of other topics that , along with the marijuana issue , show clearly that the gov. does not have our best interests in mind . Anyway , after nearly 8 decades of fed. war on tokers , anyone is delusional to believe that the gov.s position is any but exploitative .  I've been a toker for over 40 years . What if I had just been patient enough for my fed. and state gov. to give the nod for me to partake of the herb . . . . Damn , , I'd still be waiting     ;/)


----------



## Arianrhod (Jan 27, 2016)

Metal-Tiger said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > for decades, causing unnecessary suffering and even death for patients who would otherwise have benefited from it.
> ...



Interesting perspective, but nothing to do with what I posted.


----------



## Metal-Tiger (Jan 27, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> for decades, causing unnecessary suffering and even death for patients who would otherwise have benefited from it.


The thing is that it doesn't matter what tack marijuana advocates take . . the gov. is exploitative and only has designs on making as much money off marijuana as possible . . Gov. couldn't care less whether marijuana is used for medical or recreational purposes .  I've been busy debating this since 1995 . I'm fairly well versed on the various aspects . What I've learned is that the only way to advance the ball is to pit the Democrats against the Republicans in a contest for political capital . At stake - the political support / votes of upward of 30 million tokers .  ;/)


----------



## Arianrhod (Jan 27, 2016)

Metal-Tiger said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > for decades, causing unnecessary suffering and even death for patients who would otherwise have benefited from it.
> ...



Again, interesting perspective, but nothing to do with what I posted.

My concern is that the majority of posters in this thread don't seem to know the difference between medical marijuana and recreational marijuana, and it's that conflation of the two, combined with the hysterical fear of Reefer Madness that has complicated the legalization process.


----------



## Anathema (Jan 27, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> My concern is that the majority of posters in this thread don't seem to know the difference between medical marijuana and recreational marijuana, and it's that conflation of the two, combined with the hysterical fear of Reefer Madness that has complicated the legalization process.



I don't need to know the difference. All I need to know is that the main chemical in that crap (THC) has mind altering effects and therefore has no place in the hands of citizens.


----------



## Arianrhod (Jan 27, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > My concern is that the majority of posters in this thread don't seem to know the difference between medical marijuana and recreational marijuana, and it's that conflation of the two, combined with the hysterical fear of Reefer Madness that has complicated the legalization process.
> ...



Not entirely true.  Some forms (particularly those for medical uses) are processed to remove most or all of the THC and leave the CBD, which is the pain-relieving, anti-emetic, etc. property.

Thank you for highlighting one of the many areas of misunderstanding.


----------



## Anathema (Jan 27, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> Not entirely true.  Some forms (particularly those for medical uses) are processed to remove most or all of the THC and leave the CBD, which is the pain-relieving, anti-emetic, etc. property.
> 
> Thank you for highlighting one of the many areas of misunderstanding.



Until the only versions in existence have ZERO THC and no ability to have it re-engineered into the plant I have no use for ut. Even though i have glaucoma abd seizure issues.


----------



## Harry Dresden (Jan 27, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > My concern is that the majority of posters in this thread don't seem to know the difference between medical marijuana and recreational marijuana, and it's that conflation of the two, combined with the hysterical fear of Reefer Madness that has complicated the legalization process.
> ...


yea the mind altering effects of relaxation and making some people feel good.....but hey go ahead put that gun to your head....


----------



## Arianrhod (Jan 27, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > Not entirely true.  Some forms (particularly those for medical uses) are processed to remove most or all of the THC and leave the CBD, which is the pain-relieving, anti-emetic, etc. property.
> ...



Do you take prescription medication for either condition?


----------



## Anathema (Jan 27, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> Do you take prescription medication for either condition?



Yes. I've been taking eye drops daily for more than thirty-five years. I had to go back on a low dose of an anti-seizure medication about two and a half years ago.


----------



## Pogo (Jan 27, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > My concern is that the majority of posters in this thread don't seem to know the difference between medical marijuana and recreational marijuana, and it's that conflation of the two, combined with the hysterical fear of Reefer Madness that has complicated the legalization process.
> ...



Ironic, considering your own mind is in more need of alteration than anybody's.


----------



## Anathema (Jan 27, 2016)

Pogo said:


> Ironic, considering your own mind is in more need of alteration than anybody's.



No. My mi d is one of the few clear ones in this country.


----------



## Harry Dresden (Jan 27, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Ironic, considering your own mind is in more need of alteration than anybody's.
> ...


anyone who would kill themselves rather than try something that just might quell the pain is not clear headed....


----------



## Arianrhod (Jan 27, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > Do you take prescription medication for either condition?
> ...



Both of which have the potential for side effects far more mind-altering than CBD in pill form that might be more effective.

But the FDA says it's okay for you to use those drugs.

But when - not if, but when - the FDA okays the use of medical CBD, you'll still refuse it.


----------



## Agit8r (Jan 27, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > My concern is that the majority of posters in this thread don't seem to know the difference between medical marijuana and recreational marijuana, and it's that conflation of the two, combined with the hysterical fear of Reefer Madness that has complicated the legalization process.
> ...



So does caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, sugar, and a number of over-the-counter medicines.  Are we then to slap these out of the hand of the consumer?  Sheesh, maybe Bloomberg has a chance after all


----------



## Anathema (Jan 27, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> Both of which have the potential for side effects far more mind-altering than CBD in pill form that might be more effective.......
> 
> But when - not if, but when - the FDA okays the use of medical CBD, you'll still refuse it.



I've never had side effects from the eye drops. The only side effect of my Kepra has been the mild lack of energy thst is inherebt to pretty much any med of thst type.

With the potential for unsuitable mental effects, I could not in good conscience take medical marijuana.


----------



## Arianrhod (Jan 27, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > Both of which have the potential for side effects far more mind-altering than CBD in pill form that might be more effective.......
> ...



And yet you took Keppra, despite its potential for the following side effects:

Keppra Side Effects in Detail - Drugs.com


----------



## Anathema (Jan 27, 2016)

Agit8r said:


> So does caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, sugar, and a number of over-the-counter medicines.  Are we then to slap these out of the hand of the consumer?  Sheesh, maybe Bloomberg has a chance after all



I avoid the first three items,on that list religiously. Sugar is unavoidable in our society. I do my best to avoid OTC medications as much as possible; including and especially pain killers.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Jan 27, 2016)

Spinster said:


> chikenwing said:
> 
> 
> > Spinster said:
> ...



They don't?

Here's a small sample of medical organizations that support immediate legal access to medical marijuana:

AIDS Action Council
AIDS Treatment News
American Academy of Family Physicians
American Medical Student Association
American Nurses Association
American Osteopathic Association
American Preventive Medical Association
American Public Health Association
American Society of Addiction Medicine
Arthritis Research Campaign (United Kingdom)
Australian Medical Association (New South Wales) Limited
Australian National Task Force on Cannabis
Belgian Ministry of Health
British House of Lords Select Committee on Science and Technology
British House of Lords Select Committee On Science and Technology (Second Report)
British Medical Association
Canadian AIDS Society
Canadian Special Senate Committee on Illegal Drugs
Dr. Dean Edell (surgeon and nationally syndicated radio host)
French Ministry of Health
Health Canada
Kaiser Permanente
Lymphoma Foundation of America
The Montel Williams MS Foundation
Multiple Sclerosis Society (Canada)
The Multiple Sclerosis Society (United Kingdom)
National Academy of Sciences Institute Of Medicine (IOM)
National Association for Public Health Policy
National Nurses Society on Addictions
Netherlands Ministry of Health
New England Journal of Medicine
New South Wales (Australia) Parliamentary Working Party on the Use of Cannabis for Medical Purposes
Dr. Andrew Weil (nationally recognized professor of internal medicine and founder of the National Integrative Medicine Council)


----------



## Anathema (Jan 27, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> And yet you took Keppra, despite its potential for the following side effects:



Having taken its predecessor, Phenobarbital, as a child, I had a reasonable belief that the only side effect would be the slight loss of energy. With proper diet I've overcome that as well.

If tbe side effects had been more extensive, I wouldn't be here to have this conversation.


----------



## Harry Dresden (Jan 27, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > Both of which have the potential for side effects far more mind-altering than CBD in pill form that might be more effective.......
> ...


the only "unsuitable" mental effect pot would have on you is decreasing your desire to kill yourself by easing the pain.....but hey believe the bullshit you are fed,its good for you...


----------



## Arianrhod (Jan 27, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > And yet you took Keppra, despite its potential for the following side effects:
> ...



I'm just pointing out that your objections to CBD are emotional and not based on medical fact.


----------



## Anathema (Jan 27, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> I'm just pointing out that your objections to CBD are emotional and not based on medical fact.



The objections are MORAL not emotional or medical in nature.


----------



## Metal-Tiger (Jan 27, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> Again, interesting perspective, but nothing to do with what I posted.
> 
> My concern is that the majority of posters in this thread don't seem to know the difference between medical marijuana and recreational marijuana, and it's that conflation of the two, combined with the hysterical fear of Reefer Madness that has complicated the legalization process.


OK , what can you tell us about medical marijuana ?


----------



## saveliberty (Jan 27, 2016)

Metal-Tiger said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > Again, interesting perspective, but nothing to do with what I posted.
> ...



90%+ is for nonmedical conditions.


----------



## Metal-Tiger (Jan 27, 2016)

saveliberty said:


> 90%+ is for nonmedical conditions.


. . . and how do you feel about that ?  ;/)


----------



## saveliberty (Jan 27, 2016)

Metal-Tiger said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> > 90%+ is for nonmedical conditions.
> ...



Sounds like a lot of users are not honest with themselves.


----------



## Metal-Tiger (Jan 27, 2016)

saveliberty said:


> Sounds like a lot of users are not honest with themselves.


Is it worse for many individuals to not be "honest with themselves" or for our Federal government to not be honest , for nearly 8 decades , with the entire nation ?  ;/)


----------



## saveliberty (Jan 27, 2016)

Metal-Tiger said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like a lot of users are not honest with themselves.
> ...



Well, you have found ways around the government issues, so the personal dishonesty is more of an issue true?


----------



## Metal-Tiger (Jan 27, 2016)

saveliberty said:


> Well, you have found ways around the government issues, so the personal dishonesty is more of an issue true?


Look , if the so called "less government / more freedom" GOP is interested in continuing to throw tokers under the bus . . . . maybe the Democrat party will continue to reduce the war against us . 
There are a myriad of miseries visited upon tokers by the war against us , with us having to depend upon black market to acquire marijuana . . . Just keep on doing what you are doing , but I assure you , we tokers will not forget who works to end the war on us . And you call yourself "save liberty" - interesting .


----------



## Arianrhod (Jan 27, 2016)

Metal-Tiger said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > Again, interesting perspective, but nothing to do with what I posted.
> ...



It's been used by patients undergoing chemotherapy to reduce nausea and vomiting:

Regulation of nausea and vomiting by cannabinoids.  - PubMed - NCBI

It's also a very effective painkiller, either alone or as an add-on to other pain medications:

http://mychronicrelief.com/chronic-relief/


----------



## Agit8r (Jan 28, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> > So does caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, sugar, and a number of over-the-counter medicines.  Are we then to slap these out of the hand of the consumer?  Sheesh, maybe Bloomberg has a chance after all
> ...



That's your choice as an individual.


----------



## Metal-Tiger (Jan 28, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> Metal-Tiger said:
> 
> 
> > Arianrhod said:
> ...


I have to take pain medications for osteoarthritis . . . Marijuana aids in my pain relief , mostly as a muscle relaxer and anti-depressant . After I use marijuana , I'm able to more effectively  move through a few yoga positions which eases my spinal pain .


----------



## Spinster (Jan 28, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > And yet you took Keppra, despite its potential for the following side effects:
> ...



You're fortunate. Correct diet can resolve many issues, but most deny how important a role diet actually plays.


----------



## Spinster (Jan 28, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> Metal-Tiger said:
> 
> 
> > Arianrhod said:
> ...



Funny how a person can dig up "studies" to endorse whatever their position happens to be in order to make them feel better about themselves. Self-deception, but it's a powerful alluring entity to the equation.


----------



## Anathema (Jan 28, 2016)

Spinster said:


> You're fortunate. Correct diet can resolve many issues, but most deny how important a role diet actually plays.



Leas good fortune and more about knowing my medical conditions; which us something else too few people do.


----------



## SixFoot (Jan 28, 2016)

IronFist said:


> What do you think about medical marijuana? Don't you think it's strange that it's getting legalized everywhere since recently? Some years ago potheads were laughing at and now it is completely okay to smoke weed almost everywhere. Sure thing it can be used for medical purposes but it seems like things are going way too fast. It can cause schizophrenia and make people addicted in no time.
> Maybe it's too early to legalize it? A question to pot smokers: how has marijuana improved your life?



From the U.S. Patent Office

United States Patent: 6630507

_"Cannabinoids have been found to have antioxidant properties, unrelated to NMDA receptor antagonism. This new found property makes cannabinoids useful in the treatment and prophylaxis of wide variety of oxidation associated diseases, such as ischemic, age-related, inflammatory and autoimmune diseases. The cannabinoids are found to have particular application as neuroprotectants, for example in limiting neurological damage following ischemic insults, such as stroke and trauma, or in the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease and HIV dementia. Nonpsychoactive cannabinoids, such as cannabidoil, are particularly advantageous to use because they avoid toxicity that is encountered with psychoactive cannabinoids at high doses useful in the method of the present invention. A particular disclosed class of cannabinoids useful as neuroprotective antioxidants is formula (I) wherein the R group is independently selected from the group consisting of H, CH.sub.3, and COCH.sub.3. ##STR1##"_


----------



## Arianrhod (Jan 28, 2016)

Spinster said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > Metal-Tiger said:
> ...



Interesting hypothesis.  Perhaps you can find studies that make claims opposing the one I posted, or at least the anecdotal evidence provided at the second link.

FWIW, I do not use marijuana either medicinally or recreationally.

I eagerly await your refutation.


----------



## SixFoot (Jan 28, 2016)

*United States Patent: 6630507
*
Owner of the patent on Cannabis? None other than....

*The United States of America as represented by the Department of Health and Human Services* (Washington, DC)


----------



## Agit8r (Jan 28, 2016)

Spinster said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > Metal-Tiger said:
> ...



There is serious science behind the medical use of cannabis:

Effects of smoked marijuana in experimentally induced asthma.  - PubMed - NCBI


----------



## Jarlaxle (Jan 28, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > My concern is that the majority of posters in this thread don't seem to know the difference between medical marijuana and recreational marijuana, and it's that conflation of the two, combined with the hysterical fear of Reefer Madness that has complicated the legalization process.
> ...



When do you start demanding the banning of other mind-altering things...like coffee, chocolate, and good sex?


----------



## emilynghiem (Jan 28, 2016)

Jarlaxle said:


> Anathema said:
> 
> 
> > Arianrhod said:
> ...



Sorry Jarlaxle

1. I don't see the same arguments made than any of these
change the actual DNA of the person using these. I've seen friends
have chronic issues with near paranoid rejection because they
altered their brain chemistry and personality.  You can argue they
already had such a personality, but the more they relied on pot,
they denied and suppressed they had any such problem.

2. Nobody is SMOKING coffee, chocolate, or good sex.
Part of the damage is caused just by the fact the pot
is being SMOKED

3. What I find most disturbing is the people pushing pot
for medicinal purposes, don't care equally to research 
spiritual healing methods that are even MORE natural,
FREE, and can cure more ills by addressing the root cause
unlike marijuana which only temporary relieves symptoms.

This alone shows the motive is more selfish about wanting
to smoke pot or to use this as a political statement about authority.

If the issue were truly to provide natural remedy and comfort to more
people, then as many would push for spiritual healing to be researched
and not just pushing marijuana by piggybacking on medical arguments.

Spiritual healing is used to cure addiction itself, and could potentially
end the reliance on alcohol, pot or other drugs to feed such an addiction.

So if pot users avoid spiritual healing, maybe they want to stay addicted?


----------



## Anathema (Jan 28, 2016)

Jarlaxle said:


> When do you start demanding the banning of other mind-altering things...like coffee, chocolate, and good sex?



Some of those are already banned in my home.... I can't stand the snell of coffee. It makes me nauseous. Sex is for procreation not enjoyment.


----------



## Pogo (Jan 29, 2016)

emilynghiem said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > Anathema said:
> ...



Cannabis is not addictive.  We've known that for thousands of years.


----------



## Agit8r (Jan 29, 2016)

Pogo said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> > Jarlaxle said:
> ...



They even admitted that in D.A.R.E.


----------



## Metal-Tiger (Jan 29, 2016)

Spinster said:


> Funny how a person can dig up "studies" to endorse whatever their position happens to be in order to make them feel better about themselves. Self-deception, but it's a powerful alluring entity to the equation.


"Funny how" marijuana having zero potential for death by overdose has the moral crusaders inducing  (land of the free) government to have a 8 decade war against citizens exercising their natural rights to life , liberty and pursuit of happiness - yet every year sports accidents kill and wound thousands of participants / people die in "church bus" accidents


----------



## Metal-Tiger (Jan 29, 2016)

Spinster said:


> You're fortunate. Correct diet can resolve many issues, but most deny how important a role diet actually plays.


I have unnatural growth on several of my vertebra - facet joints  . Diet is not going to change that . I just have to live a life of dodging pain by several remedies . The drug "Lyrica" gives me a lot of pain relief  / marijuana and taking  "water pills" when the barometric pressure is dropping also help .  ;/)


----------



## Harry Dresden (Jan 29, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > When do you start demanding the banning of other mind-altering things...like coffee, chocolate, and good sex?
> ...


*Sex is for procreation not enjoyment. *
no wonder you hate life so much....you are one of them....


----------



## Harry Dresden (Jan 29, 2016)

Pogo said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> > Jarlaxle said:
> ...


it can be mentally .....


----------



## ChrisL (Jan 29, 2016)

It is stupid for the government to deny people medical marijuana when its effects have been well documented recently with success in treating many symptoms that cancer patient's suffer from, such as loss of appetite/weight loss (it is an appetite stimulant - hence people jonesing for snacks), and it relaxes people and allows them to fall asleep, as well as reportedly relief from pain without all the nasty side effects.  Apparently, they can make it in a concentrated pill form too.  They already use Marinol quite often to treat cancer patients, AIDS patients, and others.


----------



## Kat (Jan 30, 2016)

I personally do not see how it helps. And it can cause extreme paranoia. But, if it does help those in need I am good with that.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Jan 30, 2016)

Harry Dresden said:


> it can be mentally .....




ANYTHING can be mentally addictive...from food, to exercise, to shopping.


----------



## Bonzi (Jan 30, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > When do you start demanding the banning of other mind-altering things...like coffee, chocolate, and good sex?
> ...


 
You do not enjoy sex?
If you do not plan on having children then, you just abstain?


----------



## JoeMoma (Jan 30, 2016)

Why not use the same processes and regulations to have MJ approved for medical use as other drugs?


----------



## Metal-Tiger (Jan 30, 2016)

Kat said:


> I personally do not see how it helps. And it can cause extreme paranoia. But, if it does help those in need I am good with that.


I appreciate that you aren't interested in having me jailed for a certain lifestyle choice of mine . May you find political candidates to vote for on the ballot who want to end the war on tokers . We tokers do have better things to do than continue to defend our selves against our own government's nearly 8 decade injustice against us .


----------



## Metal-Tiger (Jan 30, 2016)

JoeMoma said:


> Why not use the same processes and regulations to have MJ approved for medical use as other drugs?


simple . . . . because government has not yet , nor will it ever find means to effectively control the cultivation , marketing or use of marijuana . . . . . . Government really , really hates it when they can't control something , almost as much as they hate admitting their un-constitutional and freedom destroying actions . Government acts as goons to protect profits of pharmaceutical , alcohol , prisons for profit , rehab and legal industries , along with pacifying the moral crusaders .


----------



## Harry Dresden (Jan 30, 2016)

Jarlaxle said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > it can be mentally .....
> ...


i think food is physical....try going without any,see how long you can go before you have to have a fix...


----------



## Arianrhod (Jan 30, 2016)

JoeMoma said:


> Why not use the same processes and regulations to have MJ approved for medical use as other drugs?



It could certainly be classified as an herbal supplement, because that's exactly what it is.


----------



## Spinster (Jan 31, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > When do you start demanding the banning of other mind-altering things...like coffee, chocolate, and good sex?
> ...



Since when is sex just for procreation and not enjoyment? Guess there's no need for the birth control industry and choices for prevention. Maybe you came to this conclusion when you got to old to partake. That should never have to happen bar illness. Sex, with a loved one, deepens a relationship and intimacy is a wonderful thing given that scenario.


----------



## Anathema (Jan 31, 2016)

Spinster said:


> Since when is sex just for procreation and not enjoyment? Guess there's no need for the birth control industry and choices for prevention. Maybe you came to this conclusion when you got to old to partake. That should never have to happen bar illness. Sex, with a loved one, deepens a relationship and intimacy is a wonderful thing given that scenario.



I came to that conclusion before I ever had sex for the first time.


----------



## Harry Dresden (Jan 31, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Spinster said:
> 
> 
> > Since when is sex just for procreation and not enjoyment? Guess there's no need for the birth control industry and choices for prevention. Maybe you came to this conclusion when you got to old to partake. That should never have to happen bar illness. Sex, with a loved one, deepens a relationship and intimacy is a wonderful thing given that scenario.
> ...


no wonder you have the mind set you have.....


----------



## emilynghiem (Feb 2, 2016)

Pogo said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> > Jarlaxle said:
> ...



Dear Pogo:
I hate to say this but you are making Carly Fiorina look good.
At least she is honest in saying pot is not like beer,
instead of pretending it's not addictive.

Now of course critics will argue alcohol is more dangerous than pot,
but at least even the criticism below of Fiorina's statement (that her daughter's death wasn't from pot but addiction
to alcohol and other drugs) admits that pot is "*FAR LESS addictive*."

So even the critics of Fiorina won't say it isn't addictive at all, if they want to be credible and taken seriously:

Aspiring presidential candidate Carly Fiorina is catching flak this week for false statements about the relative safety of marijuana, as well as conflating cannabis legalization with the death of her daughter from alcohol and prescription pills.
During the presidential debates last week, Fiorina responded to a question about cannabis legalization by saying that:
_“My husband Frank and I buried a child to drug addiction. We must invest more in the treatment of drugs. … We are misleading young people when we tell them that marijuana is just like having a beer. It’s not. And the marijuana they’re smoking today is not the same marijuana that Jeb Bush smoked 40 years ago. We need to tell young people the truth. Drug addiction is an epidemic and it is taking too many of our young people. I know this sadly from personal experience.”​_​Fiorina’s daughter died at age 35 from alcohol and prescription drug abuse, not marijuana, Fiorina wrote in her auto-biography.
Cannabis is also 110 times less toxic than alcohol. About 88,000 Americans will die this year from alcohol’s health effects. Cannabis has no lethal overdose, Vox notes.
The charge that marijuana is stronger now also rings hollow. Increased potency means users smoke far less of the plant to get the same effects. Cannabis smoking is also not associated with lung cancer.
Cannabis is also far less addictive than legal drugs alcohol, tobacco, or caffeine, let alone the opioids which are driving the nation’s addiction epidemic, the_Washington Post_ reports.
Fiorina has also lied about the state of cannabis research, saying “we don’t understand what it does to your body.” FactCheck.org called that claim “inaccurate”.
=============
I happen to agree with Fiorina on this one, that it's better to err on the side of caution. I support decriminalization, but not legalization unless we could require spiritual healing or monitoring for abuse and addictions, and that's really too personal and not something that can be mandated.  That's why this gets complicated, and I would even lobby for a different level of law (like health & safety) where abuses and addictions could be managed by a local ordinance that private communities can agree on so it's not govt imposing mandates from the top down.  
Like the inhouse policies of a college, let each community voluntarily agree to a local ordinance, such as a rule not to sell to any addicted person, or enable use by an addicted person, but maybe requiring a health professional program to address the addiction and only allow use for addicted persons under supervision so it's not feeding the addiction and causing harm or damage.
Servers at bars are not supposed to serve people already in certain conditions, so maybe the same can be done here to make sure nobody is enabling a dangerous addiction or abuse.  But since that is personal, and not really the business of govt, then this would have to be addressed locally.
One of the problems with passing the ACA mandates and putting govt in charge of more health care is this business of legalizing pot which is contentious and divisive as legalizing abortion -- people have deeply held beliefs and do not want to be forced by govt to pay for the consequences of the opposing beliefs.

Instead of becoming more independent of govt, thanks to the ACA mandates now the prolife people can refuse to pay for abortifacient drugs since the law would otherwise compel them to pay indirectly for that; and similarly people like me can argue we don't want to pay for health care for people who damage their brains refusing to admit they are addicted to abusing alcohol, marijuana, or other drugs.

I'd say it is better to remove govt from making one policy, and divide the  health care plans and social security/marital benefits by party to fund these independently, so people can  contribute to plans that allow whatever choice they support, of abortion, drugs, guns, marriage policies, etc.
And stay out of each other's business instead of making members of opposing parties pay for consequences they don't believe should be a choice.


----------



## Agit8r (Feb 2, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > When do you start demanding the banning of other mind-altering things...like coffee, chocolate, and good sex?
> ...



"Procreation will be an annual formality like the renewal of a ration card. We shall abolish the orgasm. Our neurologists are at work upon it now."


----------



## Anathema (Feb 2, 2016)

Agit8r said:


> "Procreation will be an annual formality like the renewal of a ration card. We shall abolish the orgasm. Our neurologists are at work upon it now."



I'm guessing that's a quote from someone? If so, I don't know the referenced material. 

I see peocreation as an optionsl concept, personally. One I have zero interest in participating in. Therefore I have little need for sex in my life. 

As for orgasms..... they're really a waste, for both genders.


----------



## Agit8r (Feb 2, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> > "Procreation will be an annual formality like the renewal of a ration card. We shall abolish the orgasm. Our neurologists are at work upon it now."
> ...



It's from _Nineteen Eighty-Four_ by George Orwell


----------



## ChrisL (Feb 2, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> JoeMoma said:
> 
> 
> > Why not use the same processes and regulations to have MJ approved for medical use as other drugs?
> ...



A supplement?  I don't know about all that.  Lol.


----------



## ChrisL (Feb 2, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> > "Procreation will be an annual formality like the renewal of a ration card. We shall abolish the orgasm. Our neurologists are at work upon it now."
> ...



Ba-ha-ha.


----------



## Agit8r (Feb 2, 2016)

D'ya know what's even better that an orgasm?




An orgasm on weed!


----------



## Anathema (Feb 2, 2016)

Agit8r said:


> It's from _Nineteen Eighty-Four_ by George Orwell



Okay. That makes sense. Guess it's been longer since I read that than I thought.


----------



## Anathema (Feb 2, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> Ba-ha-ha.



Oh, and what do you find so humorous, missy?


----------



## TyroneSlothrop (Feb 2, 2016)

IronFist said:


> A question to pot smokers: how has marijuana improved your life?


How has Tequila improved your life..........


----------



## Metal-Tiger (Feb 2, 2016)

Anathema said:


> I see peocreation as an optionsl concept, personally. One I have zero interest in participating in. Therefore I have little need for sex in my life.
> 
> As for orgasms..... they're really a waste, for both genders.


----------



## Anathema (Feb 2, 2016)

Metal-Tiger said:


>



Fun isn't the point if life. Propriety is.


----------



## Metal-Tiger (Feb 2, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Fun isn't the point if life. Propriety is.


Well , I am planning on having a fun day , thankful that you are not in any way able to diminish my happiness ;/)


----------



## Anathema (Feb 2, 2016)

Metal-Tiger said:


> Well , I am planning on having a fun day , thankful that you are not in any way able to diminish my happiness ;/)



I'm not here to diminish your happiness. Im just here to make sure you can't say. ..... "I didn't know any better" when you stand before our Maker at the end of your life.


----------



## Metal-Tiger (Feb 2, 2016)

Anathema said:


> I'm not here to diminish your happiness. Im just here to make sure you can't say. ..... "I didn't know any better" when you stand before our Maker at the end of your life.


Leave me alone . . . misguided moral crusader    ;/)


----------



## Anathema (Feb 2, 2016)

Metal-Tiger said:


> Leave me alone . . . misguided moral crusader    ;/)



Actually I believe you initiated the conversation, but as you wish..


----------



## Pogo (Feb 3, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Metal-Tiger said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



Wrongest post EVER.


----------



## Pogo (Feb 3, 2016)

emilynghiem said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > emilynghiem said:
> ...



Oh Emily please.  Fer Chrissake learn some discipline in your writing.  You start here seemingly about to try to make the case that cannabis is somehow "addictive" (which it definitely is not), but then immediately go rambling off to various other tangents about Carly Fioriuna, decriminalization and who knows what else, NONE of which address the original point.  

What exactly IS the point here?  I'm sorry but this post is like a taxi driver taking a fare from downtown Manhattan to uptown by way of Ogden Utah.


----------



## ashleyramirez (Feb 3, 2016)

Hi. can I get some health ?


----------



## Anathema (Feb 3, 2016)

Pogo said:


> Wrongest post EVER.



On that we will have to fundamentally disagree. I can't say I'm aware of any major diety in any pantheon whose theology rewards Fun over Proper Behavior.


----------



## Metal-Tiger (Feb 3, 2016)

Pogo said:


> Wrongest post EVER.


(grin)  and you have a right to such an opinion  /  At least you didn't get all religious about it ,  criticize my moral condition or indicate that you wish for our government to enforce a moral code .  ;/)


----------



## ChrisL (Feb 3, 2016)

Pogo said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



Hey!  She's Emily!  That is just how she rolls, you know?    Luvs ya, Emily!


----------



## ChrisL (Feb 3, 2016)

Metal-Tiger said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Wrongest post EVER.
> ...



He was talking to that Anathema.


----------



## Pogo (Feb 3, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Wrongest post EVER.
> ...




"Diety" doesn't even enter into it.  "Diety" is a man-made construct, and as such, entirely voluntary on the believer's part as a crutch for sanctioning this or proscribing that.  Therefore that's entirely your option, the same as the option you exercise to be the voice of doom and gloom on this forum.  But by the same token, that choice is yours alone.  The rest of us can clearly see it for the unmitigated malarkey it is.

As far as the actual existence of such a diety, obviously you've not bothered to familiarise yourself with the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the Buddha or J.R. "Bob" Dobbs.


----------



## Pogo (Feb 3, 2016)

Metal-Tiger said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Wrongest post EVER.
> ...



I wasn't posting to you.  See above.


----------



## Anathema (Feb 3, 2016)

Pogo said:


> "Diety" doesn't even enter into it.....



Then there is no basis,for us,to have a conversation. Good day and welcome to my ignore list.


----------



## Pogo (Feb 3, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > "Diety" doesn't even enter into it.....
> ...



---  ah yes, now appearing ^^ in the dictionary next to the term "narrowmided".
"I've decided how things work and if anyone challenges that I'm gonna go  until I turn blue!"

Rotsa ruck wit dat.


----------



## Arianrhod (Feb 3, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Wrongest post EVER.
> ...



Your deity gave you dominion over the earth.  That includes the humble hemp plant.


----------



## Metal-Tiger (Feb 3, 2016)

The war against U.S. citizens who  find usefulness in the cannabis plant has caused , by design or accident the transfer of many billions of dollars to Mexico and financed the migration of millions of illegal aliens to invade the U.S.  .


----------



## ChrisL (Feb 3, 2016)

Pogo said:


> Anathema said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



Ruh ro!  






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## Anathema (Feb 3, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> Ruh 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



You can keep each other company.


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## ChrisL (Feb 3, 2016)

Anathema said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Ruh 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
> ...



Is that a promise?  Do you think we would miss you or something?


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## Anathema (Feb 3, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> Your deity gave you dominion over the earth.  That includes the humble hemp plant.



Ywp, and like the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, not all of thkse plants were meant to be consumed


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## Arianrhod (Feb 3, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > Your deity gave you dominion over the earth.  That includes the humble hemp plant.
> ...



So your deity sets traps for you?  That sounds demonic.

I'm not familiar with the verse that says "Thou shalt not partake of the following nonpoisonous herbs just because I feel like fucking with you."


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## Anathema (Feb 3, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> So your deity sets traps for you?  That sounds demonic.
> 
> I'm not familiar with the verse that says "Thou shalt not partake of the following nonpoisonous herbs just because I feel like fucking with you."



Not traps so much as opportunities to see whether you've paid attention to the teachings and learned tbe lessons..... like the one that tells us we shoild not be taking in thungs which befuddle the mind or cloud the senses.


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## ChrisL (Feb 3, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > So your deity sets traps for you?  That sounds demonic.
> ...



This from the guy who says he doesn't follow any religions?  Did the fairies tell you this?    Lol.  If you don't follow the Bible, then where does your information about your "god (s)" come from?


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## Arianrhod (Feb 3, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > So your deity sets traps for you?  That sounds demonic.
> ...



And because medical marijuana can be processed to eliminate THC so that all you're getting is CBD, you're at no more risk of being befuddled by that than you would by aspirin.

Keppra, on the other hand, can cause numerous side effects that befuddle the senses, but because the government says you can take that, it's okay.


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## Anathema (Feb 3, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> And because medical marijuana can be processed to eliminate THC so that all you're getting is CBD, you're at no more risk of being befuddled by that than you would by aspirin.
> 
> Keppra, on the other hand, can cause numerous side effects that befuddle the senses, but because the government says you can take that, it's okay.



Until the plant can be grown without the THC in it at all, I have no use for it.

The Government has nothing to do with it. Thankfully I don't suffer any of the side-effects. If I did, I wouldn't be taking the Keppra either.


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## ChrisL (Feb 3, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > And because medical marijuana can be processed to eliminate THC so that all you're getting is CBD, you're at no more risk of being befuddled by that than you would by aspirin.
> ...



Yes, because the ingredients in marijuana are so concerning.  Meanwhile . . . 

Report any new or worsening symptoms to your doctor, such as: mood or behavior changes, depression, anxiety, or if you feel agitated, hostile, irritable, hyperactive (mentally or physically), or have thoughts about suicide or hurting yourself.

Call your doctor at once if you have a serious side effect such as:


hallucinations, unusual thoughts or behavior;
bruising, severe tingling, numbness, pain, muscle weakness;
feeling very weak or tired;
fever, chills, body aches, flu symptoms, sores in your mouth and throat;
problems with walking or movement;
the first sign of any skin rash, no matter how mild; or
severe skin reaction -- fever, sore throat, swelling in your face or tongue, burning in your eyes, skin pain, followed by a red or purple skin rash that spreads (especially in the face or upper body) and causes blistering and peeling.
Less serious side effects may include:


mild dizziness or drowsiness;
mild tired feeling;
loss of appetite; or
stuffy nose.
This is not a complete list of side effects and others may occur. Tell your doctor about any unusual or bothersome side effect. You may report side effects to FDA at 1-800-FDA-1088.

Read the Keppra (levetiracetam) Side Effects Center for a complete guide to possible side effects


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## Harry Dresden (Feb 3, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > And because medical marijuana can be processed to eliminate THC so that all you're getting is CBD, you're at no more risk of being befuddled by that than you would by aspirin.
> ...


but yet you took the keppra without knowing even with all those possible side effects which you knew about........


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## ChrisL (Feb 3, 2016)

Harry Dresden said:


> Anathema said:
> 
> 
> > Arianrhod said:
> ...



Ignorance.


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## Harry Dresden (Feb 3, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > Anathema said:
> ...


this guy is paranoid about pot saying how dangerous it is but has no problem with something that could be much more devastating than pot could ever be....


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## ChrisL (Feb 3, 2016)

Harry Dresden said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Harry Dresden said:
> ...



Because he is ignorant!


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## emilynghiem (Feb 3, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> Anathema said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



Sure, hemp can be used for a lot of good things, even making environmentally friendly plastic and rubber.

Just because we have dominion over the earth does not mean we
have to smoke things to get high.

If you want to get Biblical, our bodies are supposed to be like temples.
Our brains are designed to do incredible things.
So why would we damage the machinery we were given
by blasting brain cells smoking things, drinking ourselves into whacked out states, etc.

Is this a sign of coveting? That we want excitement or freedom or some kind of high,
and instead of getting there naturally, we use shortcuts that have side effects on our brains and bodies?

If you want to do that, at least be honest and don't try to justify it in weird ways.
Just say I want to be able to get high on pot, and I support others doing that.
And admit if you are willing to pay for the consequences of that choice,
or admit you don't think there are any. Just be honest and nobody can argue if that is your belief.

But trying to justify it by "making other people responsible" for your decisions, no sorry.
If you really believe it, you don't have to justify it.


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## Spinster (Feb 5, 2016)

Anything we do to alter our natural state be it drinking alcohol, taking drugs, smoking various substances are all detrimental to health. Added to the addictive tendency, no matter how little or intense, is asking for trouble. We all know taking drugs is damaging, ruins lives, and costs a fortune. People will still do stupid things despite knowing the potential consequences. You can't protect everyone all the time. It's unfortunate, but that's how it's always been and legal or not they'll still seek out their next high.


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## Arianrhod (Feb 5, 2016)

Spinster said:


> Anything we do to alter our natural state be it drinking alcohol, taking drugs, smoking various substances are all detrimental to health. Added to the addictive tendency, no matter how little or intense, is asking for trouble. We all know taking drugs is damaging, ruins lives, and costs a fortune. People will still do stupid things despite knowing the potential consequences. You can't protect everyone all the time. It's unfortunate, but that's how it's always been and legal or not they'll still seek out their next high.



Given the rate of obesity in this country, you might just as well argue about the dangers of food.


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## Arianrhod (Feb 5, 2016)

Spinster said:


> Anything we do to alter our natural state be it drinking alcohol, taking drugs, smoking various substances are all detrimental to health. Added to the addictive tendency, no matter how little or intense, is asking for trouble. We all know taking drugs is damaging, ruins lives, and costs a fortune. People will still do stupid things despite knowing the potential consequences. You can't protect everyone all the time. It's unfortunate, but that's how it's always been and legal or not they'll still seek out their next high.



Do you drink anything containing caffeine?


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## Spinster (Feb 5, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> Spinster said:
> 
> 
> > Anything we do to alter our natural state be it drinking alcohol, taking drugs, smoking various substances are all detrimental to health. Added to the addictive tendency, no matter how little or intense, is asking for trouble. We all know taking drugs is damaging, ruins lives, and costs a fortune. People will still do stupid things despite knowing the potential consequences. You can't protect everyone all the time. It's unfortunate, but that's how it's always been and legal or not they'll still seek out their next high.
> ...



Alcohol has tons of empty calories, as does soda and milk, none of which are necessary. Pot also adds to the obesity epidemic since people often get the munchies when getting high. Weed smokers are all that inclined to exert physically once they get all laid back and stoned.


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## Spinster (Feb 5, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> Spinster said:
> 
> 
> > Anything we do to alter our natural state be it drinking alcohol, taking drugs, smoking various substances are all detrimental to health. Added to the addictive tendency, no matter how little or intense, is asking for trouble. We all know taking drugs is damaging, ruins lives, and costs a fortune. People will still do stupid things despite knowing the potential consequences. You can't protect everyone all the time. It's unfortunate, but that's how it's always been and legal or not they'll still seek out their next high.
> ...



No. Caffeine, soda, sports drinks, and tea all dehydrate and are acid based. We want our bodies to be as alkaline as possible. We also want our bodies to be as hydrated as possible which reduces pain and enables us to recover from exertion. Most folks don't hydrate nearly enough and they typically negate the benefits by consuming products which in turn dehydrate them. It's a vicious cycle for most.


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## Arianrhod (Feb 5, 2016)

Spinster said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > Spinster said:
> ...



Given the nutritive value of milk, I'd hardly call it "empty calories."

The point is that anything you ingest affects your body chemistry.


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## Arianrhod (Feb 5, 2016)

Spinster said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > Spinster said:
> ...



Hydration's an interesting topic.  I've watched the conversation go from "You must drink eight glasses of water a day" to "Maybe eight glasses isn't necessary" and back again.

What the one-size-fits-all philosophy neglects is that one size does _not_ fit all.

Yes, dehydration is dangerous, but so is hyper-hydration, and a 100-pound woman's needs may not be the same as a 200-pound man's.  Other factors to be considered are things like climate (hot/cold, damp/dry), activity level, etc.


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## Spinster (Feb 5, 2016)

Exercise experts, people who train athletes and triathlon contestants, recommend one should drink their own body weight in ounces each day. So, 120 pound woman should drink roughly a gallon (128 ounces) of water per day. As far as the nutritional value of milk goes, it's unnecessary in the non-infant mammal. Research clearly reports milk consumption aids in osteoporosis. And cheese, shows breast cancer in women is prevalent amongst those individuals who consume. These same statistics are showing up in Asian countries where there wasn't cheese in the diet prior to major fast food chains going in like McDonalds and Burger King with cheese on everything.


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## Arianrhod (Feb 5, 2016)

^The women in my family are prone to osteoporosis.  I'd be very interested in seeing the data on the connection with milk.

As for drinking one's body weight in water, if I tried I'd probably be running to the bathroom all day!


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## Spinster (Feb 5, 2016)

Frequent bathroom visits are a result of being properly hydrated, for sure. The benefits are many, however, such as pain reduction, better recovery following activity, reducing/eliminating high blood pressure, improving diabetes, etc. I'll get back to you with some references regarding osteoporosis.


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## Agit8r (Feb 6, 2016)

Always good to drink plenty of water, when toking the marijuana.


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## Mr. H. (Feb 6, 2016)

I went to a meeting at the local library this afternoon. It was hosted by an organization that will soon open a dispensary in Illinois. There are several in the state already. 

Very informative. 

It's sad that the new governor twice vetoed a list of additions to the "conditions" list, including PTSD. 

My brother has bipolar effective disorder and smokes like a fiend, but I was told that it is doubtful that ANY mental health conditions will ever be added to the list.


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## Pogo (Feb 7, 2016)

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That's not a given.  Cannabis doesn't make you hungry; it makes you linger on a thought.  If your thought happens to be food.... then you're going to eat.  If it's on something else, like exercise.... then you're not.


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## Agit8r (Feb 7, 2016)

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It really depends on what sort of herb it is.  A high THCV sativa will actually decrease appetite.


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## ChrisL (Feb 9, 2016)




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## Spinster (Feb 9, 2016)

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Un huh, that's why certain food is known as "stoner food". Something doesn't just get associated with an occurrence because it happens once in awhile. It's typically a given.


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## Pogo (Feb 9, 2016)

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Doesn't matter who thinks it's a "given" or "what's known as stoner food". I'm saying it's not a _causation_.
The Munchies is basically a tradition.  Traditions are self-perpetuating.  

It is not a physiological function of the herb itself, which function is to enhance whatever the chosen experience is.  Whether that's eating or something unrelated to eating, that would be the stoner's choice.


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## Spinster (Feb 9, 2016)

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I was saying it was a TENDENCY, not a cause. Just like certain foods TEND to be stoner food. Weed TENDS to make the user do things they wouldn't ordinarily do or act in ways they wouldn't ordinarily do. That's why it's against the law to drive under the influence of weed just like it is under the influence of alcohol. Whatever term you want to put on it is your choice, but the law has determined weed does AFFECT individuals in certain ways that makes them unsafe such as driving. Employers, likewise, have determined the same, hence their no tolerance policy. Employers don't want stoners in the workplace running potentially dangerous machinery or behaving in ways that could jeopardize their business or adversely affect their relationships with customers. I realize this wouldn't be acceptable to you, so just smoke another doobie and chill. When the high passes, you'll maybe think more clearly.


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## Pogo (Feb 11, 2016)

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Whatever --- "tendency" or whatever we call it, it still comes from the subject, not the plant.  "Munchies", i.e. eating when one is not hungry -- is a conscious choice.  A common correlation -- or more accurately here, a _perception _of a common correlation (read: "popular stereotype") -- is still not a causation.


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## Agit8r (Feb 11, 2016)

Seriously though, different sorts of weed has different effects, depending on how much of which cannabinoids are in it.  There are some varieties that aren't even intoxicating, that are bred to provide relief for specific symptoms.

Most high THC strains will increase appetite if consumed in a high enough quantity.  Compulsive activity can be exacerbated if the user is prone to such activities.


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## TyroneSlothrop (Feb 11, 2016)

*5 New Discoveries That Will Shake Up Our Understanding of Marijuana*
*1. Pot Use Linked To Better Outcomes In Brain Injury Patients*
* 2. Rumors of Marijuana's Effect on Sanity Are the Stuff of Myth, Not Reality*
*3. CBD Oil More Effective Than Conventional Anti-Epileptic Treatments*
*4. Older Americans Gravitating Toward Medical Marijuana Treatment*
*5. Synthetic THC Kills Leukemia Cells*


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## Agit8r (Feb 11, 2016)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *5 New Discoveries That Will Shake Up Our Understanding of Marijuana*
> *1. Pot Use Linked To Better Outcomes In Brain Injury Patients*
> * 2. Rumors of Marijuana's Effect on Sanity Are the Stuff of Myth, Not Reality*
> *3. CBD Oil More Effective Than Conventional Anti-Epileptic Treatments*
> ...



Many "mysterious" illnesses appear to involve the endocannabinoid system. I suspect that it is the key to most or all autoimmune disorders.

Endocannabinoid system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Spinster (Feb 11, 2016)

Disagree. If it were a "common correlation" as you like to call it, it wouldn't be a pervasive occurrence. You can point to those who are solitary smokers, who aren't being influenced by peer activity. Perhaps weed intensifies sensations, like food tastes better and munchies occur. We may be talking about a chicken and egg situation as in which comes first, but the common thread is weed. When something has a history of happening regularly/repeatedly it follows, logically thinking, that it's THE cause.


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## Spinster (Feb 11, 2016)

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Having had two autoimmune diseases simultaneously, I can say honestly it didn't come from weed as I wasn't a user. It came from a bone marrow failure, pure and simple. Diabetes, which I didn't have and still don't is an autoimmune disease, as is MS. None of these people I know who came up with these afflictions ever used weed. So much for your fucking theory! Assholes and ignorant idiots have plenty of theories. Worthless considerations. Don't waste other's time.


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## Agit8r (Feb 11, 2016)

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I think that you are misunderstanding me.  I'm not arguing that auto-immune diseases are caused by the usage of phyto-cannabinoids like THC in marijuana.  I'm noting that our bodies produce their own cannabinoids (endocannabinoids), and when the body does not produce a sufficient amount, it likely explains auto-immune symptoms such as inflammation.

The Endocannabinoid System as an Emerging Target of Pharmacotherapy


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## Spinster (Feb 11, 2016)

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You stated, "it is key to most or all autoimmune disorders". I'm calling your quote bullshit. Many, many things cause autoimmune disease none of which is clearly understood by researchers. They have suspicions, theories, and conclusions, but like with most of the medical community, they don't really know much. It is thought that diet contributes to inflammation, but here again, the cause is unknown. I doubt you as a lay person know more than researchers who devote their lives to determining these "mysteries".


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## Arianrhod (Feb 11, 2016)

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So you'll be reading the information at the links soon, right?


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## Spinster (Feb 11, 2016)

I read the links, already. They said absolutely nothing of importance. There have been millions of such "reports" published which declare weed helps a bucket load of symptoms and ailments. If there were any merits to these reports that go back 3,000 years, don't you think we'd be further along than we are today? This crap is just exactly like all the other claims about various natural substances. Not only is there no evidence of lasting/long-term results to these claims, but the amount needed is ridiculously high and can result in health risks at best. When you read such reports in the future, try analyzing them thoroughly first, but you won't come up with anything because nothing definitive exists. Get it through your head.


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## Agit8r (Feb 12, 2016)

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What's with the rant? Marijuana can treat the symptoms of at least some auto-immune diseases, and it does so by interacting with the endocannabinoid system.  Those are things that are for certain.  What I can't say for certain, but the available evidence suggests, is that this is because they replace something that is missing.

Effects of smoked marijuana in experimentally induced asthma.  - PubMed - NCBI


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## TyroneSlothrop (Feb 12, 2016)

*Why is marijuana banned? The real reason is worse than you think*
Across the world, more and more people are asking: Why is marijuana banned? Why are people still sent to prison for using or selling it?


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## TyroneSlothrop (Feb 12, 2016)

*Reparations should be paid to anyone arrested for simple marijuana possession...anyone supporting keeping marijuana illegal should be horse whipped then tarred and feathered....*


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## Agit8r (Feb 12, 2016)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *Why is marijuana banned? The real reason is worse than you think*
> Across the world, more and more people are asking: Why is marijuana banned? Why are people still sent to prison for using or selling it?



Big Pharma


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## TyroneSlothrop (Feb 12, 2016)

‘I was pretty jacked up on marijuana’: This insane 1969 anti-drug propaganda video is unintentionally hysterical


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## Arianrhod (Feb 12, 2016)

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In Post #365, you mentioned autoimmune diseases.  I'm assuming this means you understand that these are the result of, to put it simply, "something missing" or "something malfunctioning" in the individual's genetic code.  If that "something" turns out to be a missing enzyme - we'll call it Enzyme C - that can be compensated by ingesting Compound C, would it be wise for that individual to take Compound C?

Another analogy would be vitamins/supplements.  You go to your doctor for a checkup, he does some bloodwork, and it comes back indicating you have very high homocysteine levels.  This could lead to atherosclerosis and possibly a stroke.  He tells you to take extra B-vitamins to lower your homocysteine levels.

Would you?


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## Agit8r (Feb 12, 2016)

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Those examples are not analogous to one another.


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## Arianrhod (Feb 12, 2016)

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Obviously not, but I'm trying to find a way to get through that "OMG, MARIJUANA IS TEH EVUL!!!" mentality.


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## Agit8r (Feb 12, 2016)

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Ahhh. Maybe I'd better retire to bed before I add any more fuel to that fire.


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## TyroneSlothrop (Feb 12, 2016)

*Let the stoners handle this ...we got your back...*




Healthcare
*Elizabeth Warren: Pot Could Be A Solution To America’s Deadly Painkiller Epidemic*
Senator Warren has an exciting new proposal for the Center for Disease Control.


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