# Biden Position on Guns Is a Joke



## protectionist (Feb 15, 2022)

Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.

1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
3.  Hold gun Manufacturers "accountable"

Strike 1....Strike 2......Strike 3

First, according to the second amendment of the Constitution, the right to bears arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED (exactly what Biden is proposing to do)

Second, I don't think Biden, or any of his leftist friends, clueless about guns, have any idea what they're talking about, when they loosely throw the phrase "assault weapons".  I've heard some of them refer to the AR-15 rifle as an assault weapon , when it's just an ordinary rifle, that fires one shot with each pull of the trigger.

Third, unlike Biden's claim that high capacity magazines have no place in a civilized society, and his question of why there is a need for that, there easily could be a need.  What if a whole gang of thugs show up in your front yard ? (let's say 10-15 of them).  A 6 shooter wouldn't cover that.

Third, gun manufacturers have nothing to do with any of this.  In addition to the guns possessed by police, there are far more guns in the hands of law-abiding people (with CCW permits), than there are criminals in possession of them.   And you cant blame an inanimate object.  Some people kill or injure others with a car.  Wanna ban cars ?  Some people are attacked with baseball bat.  Wanna ban baseball bats ?  Some people are killed with a kitchen knife.  Wanna ban them ?

Lastly, banning assault rifles (whatever anybody defines that to be) or any kind of rifle, doesnt ,match up with the facts. Relatively, very few people are killed with rifles.


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## JGalt (Feb 15, 2022)

How about we just ban that st..st..st..stuttering fuck?


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## gipper (Feb 15, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...


It’s just talk designed to inflame Rs and cons, and keep libs and Ds happy. O and Bubba did much the same thing. All three losers actually did nothing to limit the second amendment.  It’s what they do, not what they say. 

You’d think all Americans would see this well worn out scam.


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## JGalt (Feb 15, 2022)

gipper said:


> It’s just talk designed to inflame Rs and cons, and keep libs and Ds happy. O and Bubba did much the same thing. All three losers actually did nothing to limit the second amendment.  It’s what they do, not what they say.
> 
> You’d think all Americans would see this well worn out scam.



Clinton did. Remember the AWB in '94?

Federal Assault Weapons Ban - Wikipedia


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## gipper (Feb 15, 2022)

JGalt said:


> Clinton did. Remember the AWB in '94?
> 
> Federal Assault Weapons Ban - Wikipedia


Minor.


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## Flash (Feb 15, 2022)




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## Golfing Gator (Feb 15, 2022)

gipper said:


> It’s just talk designed to inflame Rs and cons, and keep libs and Ds happy. O and Bubba did much the same thing. All three losers actually did nothing to limit the second amendment.  It’s what they do, not what they say.
> 
> You’d think all Americans would see this well worn out scam.



Ironically Trump did more to limit the 2nd than Obama.


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## Golfing Gator (Feb 15, 2022)

JGalt said:


> Clinton did. Remember the AWB in '94?
> 
> Federal Assault Weapons Ban - Wikipedia



 In May 1994, former presidents Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, and Ronald Reagan, wrote to the U.S. House of Representatives in support of banning "semi-automatic assault guns.


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## 22lcidw (Feb 15, 2022)

gipper said:


> Minor.


There are agendas that are put into the forefront to hide or make other things pushed by elites get done.


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## gipper (Feb 15, 2022)

22lcidw said:


> There are agendas that are put into the forefront to hide or make other things pushed by elites get done.


Agreed. However there are also agendas pushed by politicians, big tech, and media with the goal of dividing Americans. Division is what the establishment is all about. They know Americans uniting would be their demise.


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## badger2 (Feb 15, 2022)

JoeXi's low IQ simply relies on CIA orders because Putin is Red Banner FSB.


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## maybelooking (Feb 15, 2022)

gipper said:


> Minor.


it had zero effect on any damn thing to do with guns or gun violence.......but that doesn't change the fact it was still an infringement.


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## Independentthinker (Feb 15, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...


The whole problem with the left is they just can't fathom that it is bad guys who shouldn't be running around loose in the first place who are committing most of the gun crimes, with many of those being convicted felons who shouldn't even have guns. The solution is to ban known bad guys from the streets, not to ban guns. For some unexplainable reason the left seem to believe that criminals will obey gun control laws when they consistently find out that criminals DON'T obey gun laws. It makes absolutely no sense.


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## BlackSand (Feb 15, 2022)

gipper said:


> Agreed. However there are also agendas pushed by politicians, big tech, and media with the goal of dividing Americans. Division is what the establishment is all about. They know Americans uniting would be their demise.


.

Those that understand are digging in with a defensive posture and doing whatever they can to work around it ... Not so much uniting.

An atmosphere of low expectations and minimal returns in regard to government,
creates a vacuum and not a source of power in our current condition.

There's no money or value in fighting the government.
As long as they are not counting on the government for anything, they can get by comfortably.

.​


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## DukeU (Feb 15, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> In May 1994, former presidents Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, and Ronald Reagan, wrote to the U.S. House of Representatives in support of banning "semi-automatic assault guns.



And Bill Clinton signed the bill into law.............with a clause.


Assault weapons ban lifted on Monday | Local News Stories ...​
A federal ban on assault weapons was lifted at midnight on Tuesday morning, thanks to a clause in the document that said the ban would expire if Congress did not reauthorize it.

President Bill Clinton signed a bill on Sept. 13, 1994, that required domestic gun manufacturers to stop production of semi-automatic assault weapons and ammunition clips holding more than 10 rounds, with the exception of military and police use. Imports not already banned were also halted. The ban included 19 different weapons and all copies or duplicates of those weapons.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Feb 15, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Ironically Trump did more to limit the 2nd than Obama.


How so?


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## BlackSand (Feb 15, 2022)

DukeU said:


> And Bill Clinton signed the bill into law.............with a clause.
> 
> 
> Assault weapons ban lifted on Monday | Local News Stories ...​
> ...


.

It expired in 2004 and isn't even a law anymore ...
Because it did more to sell what it defined as assault weapons than it kept off the streets ...  

.​


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## Flash (Feb 15, 2022)

DukeU said:


> And Bill Clinton signed the bill into law.............with a clause.
> 
> 
> Assault weapons ban lifted on Monday | Local News Stories ...​
> ...




I remember when it expired.  It was a dumbass bill and there was not enough support in Congress to renew it.

It should have been repealed in 1997 after the Republicans took over Congress.  The House voted to repeal it.  There was a tie in the Senate but that clown idiot Al Gore, who was Slick Willy's VP, came in and broke the tie by voting against the repeal.

Many in the US rejoiced when the stupid bill was expired.

The only problem it had for me is that it increased the price of 30 round AR magazines to $20 each when they should have been less than half that cost.


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## Golfing Gator (Feb 15, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> How so?



Trump signed an anti-gun EO that banned bump stocks.  Now, I think that bump stocks are a joke and only a moron would use one, but this action by Trump set a precedent for future presidents to whittle away at gun rights via EOs


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## Missourian (Feb 15, 2022)

Biden Position on Guns Is a Joke​


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## Missourian (Feb 15, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Trump signed an anti-gun EO that banned bump stocks.  Now, I think that bump stocks are a joke and only a moron would use one, but this action by Trump set a precedent for future presidents to whittle away at gun rights via EOs


True... and I agree... but I believe the judicial overturned that ban as unconstitutional.









						Trump’s Bump Stock Ban Just Lost Big in Federal Court
					

“It is not the role of the executive—particularly the unelected administrative state—to dictate” the terms of criminal law, said the 6th Circuit.




					reason.com


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## gipper (Feb 15, 2022)

Independentthinker said:


> The whole problem with the left is they just can't fathom that it is bad guys who shouldn't be running around loose in the first place who are committing most of the gun crimes, with many of those being convicted felons who shouldn't even have guns. The solution is to ban known bad guys from the streets, not to ban guns. For some unexplainable reason the left seem to believe that criminals will obey gun control laws when they consistently find out that criminals DON'T obey gun laws. It makes absolutely no sense.


Agreed, to a point. I think we need to look at the bigger picture. Our failing culture. I suspect our culture breeds bad guys. When millions of Americans are born poor without the chance of improving their position, they tend to act up.

Being poor in America is an awful existence, that few can break through. We have too much dysfunction.  Poverty, crime, failing schools, illiteracy illegitimacy, gangs, lack of good jobs, outrageous income inequality, unjust legal system targeting the poor and minorities, prison industrial complex, etc.

I also suspect all this dysfunction is purposeful, by the establishment. It helps create division.  Our criminal government spends trillions on the military industry complex, imperialism, corporate welfare, and tax benefits for the ultra rich and big corporations. If all this money was directed on helping Americans improve their lives, things might be different.


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## Golfing Gator (Feb 15, 2022)

Missourian said:


> True... and I agree... but I believe the judicial overturned that ban as unconstitutional.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the link.  With all that was going on in 2021 I missed that story.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 15, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Trump signed an anti-gun EO that banned bump stocks.  Now, I think that bump stocks are a joke and only a moron would use one, but this action by Trump set a precedent for future presidents to whittle away at gun rights via EOs



Most people never heard of bumper stocks until the Vegas shooting.  It didn't affect anybody's right to own or use guns.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 15, 2022)

gipper said:


> Agreed, to a point. I think we need to look at the bigger picture. Our failing culture. I suspect our culture breeds bad guys. When millions of Americans are born poor without the chance of improving their position, they tend to act up.
> 
> Being poor in America is an awful existence, that few can break through. We have too much dysfunction.  Poverty, crime, failing schools, illiteracy illegitimacy, gangs, lack of good jobs, outrageous income inequality, unjust legal system targeting the poor and minorities, prison industrial complex, etc.
> 
> I also suspect all this dysfunction is purposeful, by the establishment. It helps create division.  Our criminal government spends trillions on the military industry complex, imperialism, corporate welfare, and tax benefits for the ultra rich and big corporations. If all this money was directed on helping Americans improve their lives, things might be different.



If you are poor in the US today, it's a choice you made, not an affliction.


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## BlackSand (Feb 15, 2022)

gipper said:


> I also suspect all this dysfunction is purposeful, by the establishment. It helps create division. Our criminal government spends trillions on the military industry complex, imperialism, corporate welfare, and tax benefits for the ultra rich and big corporations. If all this money was directed on helping Americans improve their lives, things might be different.


.

Greatest benefit I ever got from the government was the GI Bill.

Paid for my college and helped provide me with some pretty valuable knowledge and tools to use in the Private Sector.
When failure is not an acceptable option, a person tends to fair better in the market.

It doesn't mean they never fail, just helps them understand how useless an excuse is.

.​


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## Golfing Gator (Feb 15, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Most people never heard of bumper stocks until the Vegas shooting.  It didn't affect anybody's right to own or use guns.



But if the EO is allowed to stand, what is next to be banned via EO?   Not being allowed to own a High capacity magazine does not  anybody's right to own or use guns.   Not being allowed to certain types of ammo does not  anybody's right to own or use guns.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 15, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...



You should have read his stance on guns on his website when he was running for prez.  It went much further than that.  

Of course they'd love to see people suing gun sellers and manufacturers.  They know it would close them all down making it impossible to buy a gun.  It's likely nobody would win a claim, but the litigation costs would drive them out of business.  It's a commie way to get around the Constitution, the document they hate so much.


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## Flash (Feb 15, 2022)

gipper said:


> Being poor in America is an awful existence, that few can break through.



You are confused.

According to a study a few years ago the "poor" in America live better than the middle class in most European countries and much better than most of the people in the world.

As far as upward mobility America is the best country in the world to rise above poverty.  That is why we have so much legal and even illegal immigration.  All it takes is a little hard work. Of course now the filthy Left weenies have too much power and they have enacted typical failed Leftest policies that have curtailed the potential of the economy to grow.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 15, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> But if the EO is allowed to stand, what is next to be banned via EO?   Not being allowed to own a High capacity magazine does not  anybody's right to own or use guns.   Not being allowed to certain types of ammo does not  anybody's right to own or use guns.



You and I both know Trump was pro-gun.  He only did that because of the Vegas shooting to show he's doing something.  Trump would have never tried to ban magazines or ammo.


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## Golfing Gator (Feb 15, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You and I both know Trump was pro-gun.  He only did that because of the Vegas shooting to show he's doing something.  Trump would have never tried to ban magazines or ammo.



I agree he would not have, but he set the precedent and if SCOTUS upholds it, then the door is open for someone like Biden to do so.  

I do not really think he is pro-gun, that was just one of his talking points to get votes.  Remember he said he supported red flag laws.


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## Golfing Gator (Feb 15, 2022)

Flash said:


> As far as upward mobility America is the best country in the world to rise above poverty.



Not true at all.   The US ranks 27th in Social Mobility.  



Flash said:


> That is why we have so much legal and even illegal immigration.



We have that because of our location to so many of the world's suffering populations.   It is a long walk from South America to Norway!


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 15, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Not true at all.   The US ranks 27th in Social Mobility.
> 
> 
> 
> We have that because of our location to so many of the world's suffering populations.   It is a long walk from South America to Norway!



Right, that's why the Border Patrol stated the people coming here are from over 100 other countries.  They are flying into Mexico to cross into our border.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 15, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> I agree he would not have, but he set the precedent and if SCOTUS upholds it, then the door is open for someone like Biden to do so.
> 
> I do not really think he is pro-gun, that was just one of his talking points to get votes.  Remember he said he supported red flag laws.



It wouldn't have opened the door to anything.  Bumper stocks are not a firearm.


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## Golfing Gator (Feb 15, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It wouldn't have opened the door to anything.  Bumper stocks are not a firearm.



Neither are magazines or certain types of ammo.

But I know it is a fools errand to get you to ever disagree with Trump so I will move on.


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## marvin martian (Feb 15, 2022)

gipper said:


> Minor.



Civil rights violations perpetrated by the government are never minor.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 15, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Neither are magazines or certain types of ammo.
> 
> But I know it is a fools errand to get you to ever disagree with Trump so I will move on.



Ammo is a different story and you know it.  I've been shooting 40 years and never even knew what a bump stock was until the Vegas shooting, and most gun owners didn't either.  It affected nobody.


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## gipper (Feb 15, 2022)

marvin martian said:


> Civil rights violations perpetrated by the government are never minor.


True, but you’re whistling past the graveyard.

When they spy on us all, voided habeas corpus, commit coups worldwide, massively enrich the war profiteers, big pharma, big oil, and billionaires.  Along with numerous other terrible wrongs and injustices.  This issue is a mere blip.


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## gipper (Feb 15, 2022)

Flash said:


> You are confused.
> 
> According to a study a few years ago the "poor" in America live better than the middle class in most European countries and much better than most of the people in the world.
> 
> As far as upward mobility America is the best country in the world to rise above poverty.  That is why we have so much legal and even illegal immigration.  All it takes is a little hard work. Of course now the filthy Left weenies have too much power and they have enacted typical failed Leftest policies that have curtailed the potential of the economy to grow.


Typical con response. Of course our leading conman Ray From Bumfuck, gives you thanks. Further proving your opinion is totally fucked up and clueless.

Upward mobility is dead. Income inequality has exploded. Crime has too. Coincidentally.


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## Flash (Feb 15, 2022)

gipper said:


> Typical con response. Of course our leading conman Ray From Bumfuck, gives you thanks. Further proving your opinion is totally fucked up and clueless.
> 
> Upward mobility is dead. Income inequality has exploded. Crime has too. Coincidentally.




The only thing stopping more upward mobility in the US is the damage done to the economy by the filthy ass failed Leftest policies like we see in Democrat controlled areas.  Polices that hurt the the economy like Environmental Wacko projects that drive up the cost of energy.

Don't want to be poor?  Then don't help elect Democrats or RINOs that fuck up the country with bat shit crazy failed Leftest polices.


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## busybee01 (Feb 15, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...



Banning certain types of weapons does not infringe on the right to bear arms. That is not what Bidewn is trying to do. Try buying a machine gun. If you can get it, it will be a long wait and there are no guarantees. 

There is no need for high-capacity magazines. What you are talking is so much nonsense. A 20-round magazine is more than enough. Anything higher should be made available only to the military or police.

Gun manufacturers should bear some of the responsibility for what they put out on the market. A gun is inherently dangerous and has no redeeming value such as a car which can be useds to transport people or a knife whose purpose is to cut things.

Yes it does match up with reality. The AR-15 is the weapon of choice for mass murderers. They were used for mass shootings in Sandy Hook, San Bernadino and Aurora, Colorado to name a few. They are compact, easy to use and lethal.


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## busybee01 (Feb 15, 2022)

gipper said:


> Agreed. However there are also agendas pushed by politicians, big tech, and media with the goal of dividing Americans. Division is what the establishment is all about. They know Americans uniting would be their demise.



Republicans are the masters of division. That is the only way they can win.


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## busybee01 (Feb 15, 2022)

marvin martian said:


> Civil rights violations perpetrated by the government are never minor.



There are no civil rights violations here.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Feb 15, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Trump signed an anti-gun EO that banned bump stocks.  Now, I think that bump stocks are a joke and only a moron would use one, but this action by Trump set a precedent for future presidents to whittle away at gun rights via EOs


That doesn't hinder my gun ownership in any way.


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## Golfing Gator (Feb 15, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> That doesn't hinder my gun ownership in any way.



Neither does banning high cap magazines or certain types of ammo, so I assume you support those as well? 

Personally I do not agree with banning any of them via executive fiat.


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## bodecea (Feb 15, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...


Former President Obama already took all our guns, as the NRA warned us about.


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## Golfing Gator (Feb 15, 2022)

busybee01 said:


> A 20-round magazine is more than enough. Anything higher should be made available only to the military or police.



For the most part they do not want them.  The higher the capacity the more prone they are to jam.  Fixing a jam takes far longer that swapping magazines.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Feb 15, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Neither does banning high cap magazines or certain types of ammo, so I assume you support those as well?
> 
> Personally I do not agree with banning any of them via executive fiat.


They can't be banned via executive order.  Banning mags and ammo inhibits the use of a firearm.  Can't shoot'em without mags and ammo.


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## Golfing Gator (Feb 15, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> They can't be banned via executive order.  Banning mags and ammo inhibits the use of a firearm.  Can't shoot'em without mags and ammo.



But they will only ban some of them, not all of them.  Then we can all still operate our firearms.  This is where these types of EOs lead to. But since it was Trump that did it you cannot say anything bad about it.

How tiresome.


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## Flash (Feb 15, 2022)

Here is a great example of why an AWB and a magazine ban is a terrible thing to do.




			https://www.q13fox.com/news/i-drop-an-entire-magazine-fox-13-news-talks-to-man-who-helped-save-whatcom-co-deputies
		


'I drop an entire magazine': Neighbor shares story about saving Whatcom Co. deputies​
WHATCOM COUNTY, Wash. - FOX 13 News spoke to a man who helped save the lives of two Whatcom County deputies during a shooting last week.

Investigators say deputies arrived to a neighborhood on Green Valley Drive, responding to a gunshot that was fired during a dispute between neighbors.

When deputies arrived on scene, investigators say a 60-year-old man shot at them.

"You hear a shot ring out, and officer Thompson fell backwards," said Cody Deeter.

Deeter lives a few houses away from where the suspect lives. He says he was outside when the suspect fired the first shot.

"We got the kids inside and went in and got our weapons," he said.

Deeter said when deputies first arrived things had quieted down. He said the suspect had gone back inside.

But the peace would not last.

He said one of the deputies was shot and went down and the other deputy was hit while responding. Deeter said he ran toward the gunshots.

"That’s when I stepped around the corner, and I drop an entire magazine at this guy," he said.

Deeter helped to pull the first deputy hit out of the line of fire. He and both deputies took cover in a garage until back up arrived.

"It was nerve racking. My heart was definitely racing," he said.

Deeter says there was no question on the day of the shooting what to do.

"Those guys would take a bullet for me. They’d take a bullet for you," he said.

Sixty-year-old Joel Young is charged with two counts of attempted first degree murder and is held on a $5 million bond.


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## Flash (Feb 15, 2022)

busybee01 said:


> There are no civil rights violations here.


If the government infringes upon my Consitutional right to keep and bear arms it is sure as hell a civil rights violation.


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## gipper (Feb 15, 2022)

busybee01 said:


> Republicans are the masters of division. That is the only way they can win.


No way. The Ds are more divisive, because they are supported by the billionaires, big tech, and the msm.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 15, 2022)

Flash said:


> Here is a great example of why an AWB and a magazine ban is a terrible thing to do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...











						Trooper shot in ‘ambush’ on Arizona highway; passerby fatally shoots suspect
					

PHOENIX — Two people are dead and a Department of Public Safety trooper who was wounded while responding to a shots fired call along Interstate 10 near Tonopah just might owe his life to an a…




					fox8.com


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 15, 2022)

busybee01 said:


> Republicans are the masters of division. That is the only way they can win.



You betcha.  Republicans are against gun owners, against the wealthy, against deplorables, against the un-vaxed, against the..............never mind, I was thinking of somebody else.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 15, 2022)

busybee01 said:


> Banning certain types of weapons does not infringe on the right to bear arms. That is not what Bidewn is trying to do. Try buying a machine gun. If you can get it, it will be a long wait and there are no guarantees.
> 
> There is no need for high-capacity magazines. What you are talking is so much nonsense. A 20-round magazine is more than enough. Anything higher should be made available only to the military or police.
> 
> ...



According to FBI statistics, Americans use their guns to stop a crime or for self-defense over a million times a year.  Other organizations have that statistic up to four million times a year.

What you people who never shot a gun before don't realize is that most of your shots will miss your target, especially when that target is moving at a distance greater than 20 feet.  So having a magazine that holds more than 20 rounds is useful.  If four guys break into your home at night or are armed and at a distance on the street, you may likely need every single one of those 20 rounds for self-defense. 









						PolitiFact - Do more than 7 in 10 police bullets miss their mark, as this gun control advocate said?
					

Calls to arm school teachers grew louder after a gunman at a Santa Fe, Texas, high school on May 18 killed eight student




					www.politifact.com


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 15, 2022)

Flash said:


> The only thing stopping more upward mobility in the US is the damage done to the economy by the filthy ass failed Leftest policies like we see in Democrat controlled areas.  Polices that hurt the the economy like Environmental Wacko projects that drive up the cost of energy.
> 
> Don't want to be poor?  Then don't help elect Democrats or RINOs that fuck up the country with bat shit crazy failed Leftest polices.



Also my experiences point to drug usage as the biggest problem.  Better paying jobs often require employees to submit to random drug screenings.  Many who are not advancing in life choose dope over financial security.  It's a self-inflicted wound.


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## Flash (Feb 15, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Also my experiences point to drug usage as the biggest problem.  Better paying jobs often require employees to submit to random drug screenings.  Many who are not advancing in life choose dope over financial security.  It's a self-inflicted wound.



If a poor person doesn't want to be poor then all they have to do work hard and they will be fine.

Of course hard work is against the culture of the ghetto shitheads.   They would rather be welfare queens or street thugs or both.  They have been taught that they are victims by the Liberal assholes.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 15, 2022)

Flash said:


> If a poor person doesn't want to be poor then all they have to do work hard and they will be fine.
> 
> Of course hard work is against the culture of the ghetto shitheads.   They would rather be welfare queens or street thugs or both.  They have been taught that they are victims by the Liberal assholes.



I've delivered and picked up from companies when I was working that were doing anything they could to get employees to work there.  Many of the jobs didn't pay too bad for non-skilled labor, but you have to pass drug tests on demand to work there.    

Using my former profession (transportation) for example, we need 80,000 drivers industry can't find.  True, some of the jobs don't pay well, but others pay very well in the $25.00 an hour range plus OT and benefits.  Those are local jobs where you work 5 days a week and home every night.  Can't find the people.  Other OTR jobs you can make 6 figures a year.  

So the question is why aren't these so-called poor people jumping at the opportunity to get those jobs?


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## Flash (Feb 15, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I've delivered and picked up from companies when I was working that were doing anything they could to get employees to work there.  Many of the jobs didn't pay too bad for non-skilled labor, but you have to pass drug tests on demand to work there.
> 
> Using my former profession (transportation) for example, we need 80,000 drivers industry can't find.  True, some of the jobs don't pay well, but others pay very well in the $25.00 an hour range plus OT and benefits.  Those are local jobs where you work 5 days a week and home every night.  Can't find the people.  Other OTR jobs you can make 6 figures a year.
> 
> So the question is why aren't these so-called poor people jumping at the opportunity to get those jobs?


A low paying job can be a stepping stone to a higher paying job if you want it to be.  Many people that do well in life started out in a low paying job.

There is always a shortage of people willing to work hard and smart.  They are in demand in all work places and will be rewarded appropriately.

However, is also a glut of sorry shitheads that don't give a rat's ass.  They are the ones that bitch about how life is so unfair to them.


----------



## protectionist (Feb 15, 2022)

Independentthinker said:


> The whole problem with the left is they just can't fathom that it is bad guys who shouldn't be running around loose in the first place who are committing most of the gun crimes, with many of those being convicted felons who shouldn't even have guns. The solution is to ban known bad guys from the streets, not to ban guns. For some unexplainable reason the left seem to believe that criminals will obey gun control laws when they consistently find out that criminals DON'T obey gun laws. It makes absolutely no sense.


The one thing about leftists that is consistent, is that they don't make sense.


----------



## protectionist (Feb 15, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Trump signed an anti-gun EO that banned bump stocks.  Now, I think that bump stocks are a joke and only a moron would use one, but this action by Trump set a precedent for future presidents to whittle away at gun rights via EOs


Bump stocks are hardly a representitive for all gun rights, EOs, or the 2nd amendment..  Liberals say the darndest things.  HA HA  HA.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Feb 15, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Bump stocks are hardly a representitive for all gun rights, EOs, or the 2nd amendment..  Liberals say the darndest things.  HA HA  HA.



The only liberal here would be you for supporting Trump's anti-gun EO.


----------



## Independentthinker (Feb 15, 2022)

protectionist said:


> The one thing about leftists that is consistent, is that they don't make sense.


What makes sense to them is to institute a policy on something and when that policy doesn't work it is because they didn't do enough of it so the solution is to do more of what doesn't work.


----------



## jasonnfree (Feb 15, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...


Joe's a good man.  Who in the hell needs assault rifles and high capacity weapons unless you're a professional guard maybe.  I collected tons of coins when I had a laundromat.  I had nothing but a 5 shot smith and wesson with a 1 inch barrel.  Sold the laundromat and the smith has been in my safe the last 30 years.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 15, 2022)

jasonnfree said:


> Joe's a good man.  Who in the hell needs assault rifles and high capacity weapons unless you're a professional guard maybe.  I collected tons of coins when I had a laundromat.  I had nothing but a 5 shot smith and wesson with a 1 inch barrel.  Sold the laundromat and the smith has been in my safe the last 30 years.



So you think everybody lives your kind of life?  I don't.  My little suburb has three to five murders a year plus armed robberies.  When you live with the blacks you live with a lot of violent crime.  We need our guns.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 15, 2022)

Flash said:


> A low paying job can be a stepping stone to a higher paying job if you want it to be.  Many people that do well in life started out in a low paying job.
> 
> There is always a shortage of people willing to work hard and smart.  They are in demand in all work places and will be rewarded appropriately.
> 
> However, is also a glut of sorry shitheads that don't give a rat's ass.  They are the ones that bitch about how life is so unfair to them.



Sure, without a doubt that happens, just not all the time.  The days of turning nuts onto bolts for 50K a year are long over and their not coming back.  Today you just about need a trade or field of work that makes you transcending over non-skilled labor.  UPS still pays pretty well and even they have a hard time finding people today to deliver parcels.  

What I'm addressing is all those people who claim there are no good paying jobs anymore.  It's bullshit.  There are great paying jobs, but you need to have the training and experience to get them.  You have to get off your ass and do something to improve yourself and make yourself worth more money.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 6, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...


All sound reasonable. But I’m regulating  them lIke full autos are.  Do you really need more then ten rounds or an assault style weapon ? If you do, get a permit and register it.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 6, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So you think everybody lives your kind of life?  I don't.  My little suburb has three to five murders a year plus armed robberies.  When you live with the blacks you live with a lot of violent crime.  We need our guns.


If you don’t feel safe at home with a shot gun and a ten round 9 mm, I’d fking move.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 6, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Trump signed an anti-gun EO that banned bump stocks.  Now, I think that bump stocks are a joke and only a moron would use one, but this action by Trump set a precedent for future presidents to whittle away at gun rights via EOs


A moron did and killed and injured a lot of people. Firing into a crowd doesn’t take accuracy. Trump did nothing more then regulate what the NRA would allow. Gun makers don’t make much on bump stocks. , And, It’s something every court decision allows.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 6, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> If you don’t feel safe at home with a shot gun and a ten round 9 mm, I’d fking move.



Well it depends on your situation.  I still have friends and family here, plus a side business, so I can't just pack my bags and go like most people.  And the fact Democrats are very overt about destroying great neighborhoods no matter where you move to.  The real solution is to greatly reduce HUD funding so that lowlifes can't easily move into nice areas with government subsidies.  That would take informed and intelligent voters, and it's unfortunate we let everybody vote in this country. 









						Biden and Dems Are Set to Abolish the Suburbs | National Review
					

If suburban voters knew what the Democrats had in store for them, they’d run screaming in the other direction.




					www.nationalreview.com


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 6, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Ironically Trump did more to limit the 2nd than Obama.


How?


----------



## j-mac (Mar 6, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> All sound reasonable. But I’m regulating  them lIke full autos are.  Do you really need more then ten rounds or an assault style weapon ? If you do, get a permit and register it.


See, this is where liberals go wrong in this argument. It’s not any of your business what I need, or want.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 7, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> A moron did and killed and injured a lot of people. Firing into a crowd doesn’t take accuracy. Trump did nothing more then regulate what the NRA would allow. Gun makers don’t make much on bump stocks. , And, It’s something every court decision allows.



It's called a dog and pony show.  Trump learned that about being a politician.  Give them something without really giving them anything; throw them a bone.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 7, 2022)

j-mac said:


> See, this is where liberals go wrong in this argument. It’s not any of your business what I need, or want.



People who never shot a gun before think it's like they see in the movies where a cop pulls out a snub nose 38 and shoots a guy 50 feet away while running.  People that do shoot guns understand that most of your shots will miss, especially when your life is on the line and your heart is beating at 150 per minute.  It's like they instructed us in CCW class:  Hitting a piece of cardboard is easy until it's shooting back at you.  

I carry a 9mm with about a four inch barrel.  That's why my magazine holds 18 rounds.  If I have to use it, I know I'm going to miss my intended target multiple times.  If I'm shooting at several attackers, I may need all 18 rounds and more.


----------



## j-mac (Mar 7, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> People who never shot a gun before think it's like they see in the movies where a cop pulls out a snub nose 38 and shoots a guy 50 feet away while running.  People that do shoot guns understand that most of your shots will miss, especially when your life is on the line and your heart is beating at 150 per minute.  It's like they instructed us in CCW class:  Hitting a piece of cardboard is easy until it's shooting back at you.
> 
> I carry a 9mm with about a four inch barrel.  That's why my magazine holds 18 rounds.  If I have to use it, I know I'm going to miss my intended target multiple times.  If I'm shooting at several attackers, I may need all 18 rounds and more.


No doubt….mine is a 9mm hellcat, 15+1


----------



## Osiris-ODS (Mar 7, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...


Yes, they would want to ban all those things. A couple of years ago, a leftist judge in the UK ruled that knife manufacturers could be held liable for selling sharp knives to non commercial entities. He literally said that regular citizens should not have access to sharp knives. These people are utterly insane.


----------



## Osiris-ODS (Mar 7, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You and I both know Trump was pro-gun.  He only did that because of the Vegas shooting to show he's doing something.  Trump would have never tried to ban magazines or ammo.


Golfing Gator supports banning magazines over 5 rounds. He's full of shit if he's trying to suggest otherwise.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 7, 2022)

bripat9643 said:


> How?



read the thread.


----------



## j-mac (Mar 7, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> The only liberal here would be you for supporting Trump's anti-gun EO.


What guns did Trump ban?


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 7, 2022)

j-mac said:


> What guns did Trump ban?



Did I say he banned guns?   No I did not.

But he did sign an EO banning an accessory for guns.   If they can do it for one accessory, they can do it for more.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 7, 2022)

Osiris-ODS said:


> Golfing Gator supports banning magazines over 5 rounds.



Links please.  



Osiris-ODS said:


> He's full of shit if he's trying to suggest otherwise.



You are full of shit till you provide links of me  supports the banning magazines over 5 rounds


----------



## j-mac (Mar 7, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Did I say he banned guns?   No I did not.
> 
> But he did sign an EO banning an accessory for guns.   If they can do it for one accessory, they can do it for more.


Ok, so what was “anti gun” in his EO?


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 7, 2022)

j-mac said:


> Ok, so what was “anti gun” in his EO?



But he did sign an EO banning an accessory for guns. If they can do it for one accessory, they can do it for more.


----------



## j-mac (Mar 7, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> But he did sign an EO banning an accessory for guns. If they can do it for one accessory, they can do it for more.


That’s not what you said though…you typed out “anti gun EO”….So that was a lie wasn’t it?


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 7, 2022)

j-mac said:


> That’s not what you said though…you typed out “anti gun EO”….So that was a lie wasn’t it?



No it was not, banning accessories for guns is being anti-gun.

Or would you be ok with the banning of any magazine over 10 rounds, those are just accessories.

How about banning scopes, those are just accessories.

How about banning some muzzles suppressors, those are just accessories.


Would you be good with Biden if he did those things or would you call him anti-gun?


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 7, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> read the thread.


I'm asking you, turd.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 7, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> read the thread.


In other words, you're can't answer the question.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 7, 2022)

bripat9643 said:


> In other words, you're can't answer the question.



I have answered it in this very thread.  Why should I type it all again just because you are too lazy to scan through 4 pages?


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 7, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> I have answered it in this very thread.  Why should I type it all again just because you are too lazy to scan through 4 pages?


No you haven't


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 7, 2022)

bripat9643 said:


> No you haven't



see post number 19


----------



## Abatis (Mar 7, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Trump signed an anti-gun EO that banned bump stocks.  Now, I think that bump stocks are a joke and only a moron would use one, but this action by Trump set a precedent for future presidents to whittle away at gun rights via EOs



The above is bullshit; "fake news" and "alternate facts" . . .

For a decade (2008-2017) ATF reviewed many bumpstock designs (including ones _exactly_ like those used in the Las Vegas shooting) and consistently ruled they do not change a semi-auto into a machine gun.

In the wake of Las Vegas it was *Congress* which asked ATF to review those previous reviews and decisions on bumpstocks.  

That review and the final action of enacting the rule that relied on the ATF reversing many previous decisions, really lies at Obama's grant of power to the AG/DOJ delegating the power to redefine *all* definitions pertaining to arms in EO-13637, (2013). As the bumpstock final rule said (linked below):


"The definition of "machinegun" in 27 CFR 447 .11, promulgated pursuant to the portion of section 38 of the Arms Export Control Act (AECA) (22 U.S.C. 2778) delegated to the Attorney General by section l(n)(ii) of Executive Order 13637 . . . "

The bumpstock ban and all the bullshit that is pending right now, redefining the definition of frame and receiver, supposedly addressing "ghost guns" (effective date June 1) and the pistol brace rules AGAIN reversing years of ATF guidance, making millions of currently owned AR platform pistols into SBR's thus requiring NFA registration and tax, (effective date Aug 1), *ALL* depend on Obama's EO-13637, giving the DOJ the subjective power to redefine terms in law.

Here's some facts, Trump's EO never ordered the ATF to ban bumpstocks, it ordered the ATF to expedite their review (again, ordered by Congress, _not_ the President) and finalize a rule for public comment -- it was, for all intents, _a shit or get off the pot_ order . . . 

Personally, I don't think Trump believed that a new rule would ever be approved and published (going by the history of the regulatory reviews).  

The bumpstock final rule was the ATF stretching and overstepping its interpretive authority and it also served a political agenda; it put a cudgel in the hands of people like you, to beat Trump with, allowing people like you to stupidly define him as more anti-gun than Obama.

If you actually want to discuss the _actual_ history of the final rule that banned bumpstocks keep your satements with in the facts. If you would like to actually review that factual history, it is recounted here:



			https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5635249/Bump-Stock-Final-Rule.pdf


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 7, 2022)

Abatis said:


> The bumpstock final rule was the ATF stretching and overstepping its interpretive authority and it also served a political agenda; it put a cudgel in the hands of people like you, to beat Trump with, allowing people like you to stupidly define him as more anti-gun than Obama.



Trump was exceptionally talented at putting cudgels in people's hands, he just could not help himself.

As for Obama, I think he was a terrible POTUS but can you name some "anti-gun" things he did that were worse than this EO and Trump's talk about supporting Red Flag Rules?


----------



## Abatis (Mar 7, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Trump was exceptionally talented at putting cudgels in people's hands, he just could not help himself.



But beating Trump with the "_Trump was more anti-gun than Obama_" stick is not legitimate, nor was it Trump that put that stick into anyone's hands.  It was put in *your* hands by the DEMedia and whatever other shitbird leftists you listen to, whoever told you that Trump's EO banned bumpstocks.

All your fallacious statement above really says is that you willingly swallow and parrot bullshit for political gain and then try to divert attention from your error.



Golfing Gator said:


> As for Obama, I think he was a terrible POTUS but can you name some "anti-gun" things he did that were worse than this EO and Trump's talk about supporting Red Flag Rules?



So you are now admitting your mistake, accepting that you have been corrected that it was Obama's EO that set the ATF administrative excess into motion that allowed bumpstocks (and now pistol braces and 80% receivers) to be banned, not any EO from Trump?

The gun control hopes and dreams of Obama (and Congress) was crushed by _Heller_.  Democrats, when they gained power in 2009 didn't understand what _Heller_ was or what it really did so they were effectively neutered.  They still don't understand and have rested their hopes on woefully anti-constituional doctrine invented by the lower courts (just like the various "collective right" inerpretations, 1942-2008).  Most Democrats remain blind to what is soon to happen.  

After SCOTUS speaks in June in _NYSRPA_, the scheme used by the lower federal courts to sustain challenged "assault weapon" and LCM bans (the "two-step inquiry") will be invalidated, and all those decisions upholding those bans will all be reversed in short order.

.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 7, 2022)

Abatis said:


> But beating Trump with the "_Trump was more anti-gun than Obama_" stick is not legitimate, nor was it Trump that put that stick into anyone's hands. It was put in *your* hands by the DEMedia and whatever other shitbird leftists you listen to, whoever told you that Trump's EO banned bumpstocks.
> 
> All your fallacious statement above really says is that you willingly swallow and parrot bullshit for political gain and then try to divert attention from your error.



No, it was put there by Trump himself by both his actions and his words.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 7, 2022)

Abatis said:


> So you are now admitting your mistake, accepting that you have been corrected that it was Obama's EO that set the ATF administrative excess into motion that allowed bumpstocks (and now pistol braces and 80% receivers) to be banned, not any EO from Trump?
> 
> The gun control hopes and dreams of Obama (and Congress) was crushed by _Heller_. Democrats, when they gained power in 2009 didn't understand what _Heller_ was or what it really did so they were effectively neutered. They still don't understand and have rested their hopes on woefully anti-constituional doctrine invented by the lower courts (just like the various "collective right" inerpretations, 1942-2008). Most Democrats remain blind to what is soon to happen.
> 
> After SCOTUS speaks in June in _NYSRPA_, the scheme used by the lower federal courts to sustain challenged "assault weapon" and LCM bans (the "two-step inquiry") will be invalidated, and all those decisions upholding those bans will all be reversed in short order.



Nope, no mistakes here.  I pretty much agree with your take on the Dems, it is just your view of Trump where we differ.


----------



## Abatis (Mar 7, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> No, it was put there by Trump himself by both his actions and his words.



And that is just a partisan opinion.  I have neither the desire to, or the illusion that I can alter your partisan opinion. I took exception to your statement of 'fact' that Trump's EO banned bumpstocks.



Golfing Gator said:


> Nope, no mistakes here.  I pretty much agree with your take on the Dems, it is just your view of Trump where we differ.



You don't know my view of Trump, only my supported statement that his EO did not "ban bumpstocks" and claims that it did are wrong, even if they are just "takes".


----------



## g5000 (Mar 7, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...


An assault weapons ban is theater for the rubes.  However, the courts have rejected every challenge to assault weapons ban, including the 1994 federal ban.

As for "shall not be infringed", the Supreme Court has upheld several bans, including the machine gun ban signed into law by Ronald Reagan.

You can't own a nuke, either.


----------



## g5000 (Mar 7, 2022)

JGalt said:


> How about we just ban that st..st..st..stuttering fuck?


Thanks for showing your hatred of people with a handicap, bigot.


----------



## g5000 (Mar 7, 2022)

gipper said:


> It’s just talk designed to inflame Rs and cons, and keep libs and Ds happy. O and Bubba did much the same thing. All three losers actually did nothing to limit the second amendment.  It’s what they do, not what they say.
> 
> You’d think all Americans would see this well worn out scam.


The "gun grab" hoax is the best marketing ploy ever created by the gun manufacturing lobby.

OBAMAZ CUMMIN FER YER GUNZ!  BUY MOAR!

HILLAREEZ CUMMIN FER YER GUNZ!  BUY MOAR!

BIDENZ CUMMIN FER YER GUNZ!  BUY MOAR!

I would not be the least surprised if the gun lobby contributes to the campaigns of Democratic candidates. They are great for sales.


----------



## g5000 (Mar 7, 2022)

Independentthinker said:


> The whole problem with the left is they just can't fathom that it is bad guys who shouldn't be running around loose in the first place who are committing most of the gun crimes, with many of those being convicted felons who shouldn't even have guns. The solution is to ban known bad guys from the streets, not to ban guns. For some unexplainable reason the left seem to believe that criminals will obey gun control laws when they consistently find out that criminals DON'T obey gun laws. It makes absolutely no sense.


Then why is the NRA opposing Biden's attempts to stop illegal gun trafficking?









						President Biden Announces More Actions to Reduce Gun Crime And Calls on Congress to Fund Community Policing and Community Violence Intervention - The White House
					

Today, the Biden Administration is announcing additional actions to reduce gun crime and make communities safer. This plan builds on the steps the




					www.whitehouse.gov


----------



## gipper (Mar 7, 2022)

g5000 said:


> The "gun grab" hoax is the best marketing ploy ever created by the gun manufacturing lobby.
> 
> OBAMAZ CUMMIN FER YER GUNZ!  BUY MOAR!
> 
> ...


Every much like the Russia hoax, that dupes Ds and libs.


----------



## 2aguy (Mar 7, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Trump was exceptionally talented at putting cudgels in people's hands, he just could not help himself.
> 
> As for Obama, I think he was a terrible POTUS but can you name some "anti-gun" things he did that were worse than this EO and Trump's talk about supporting Red Flag Rules?




He filled the Federal Judiciary with anti-gun judges.....and two Supreme Court justices...both anti-gun zealots.

He understood that democrats lost control of congress in 1994 in a large part to their assault weapon ban....so he decided to change tactics.....giving the lead of the anti-gun movement to local and state governments, and using the courts to make their anti-gun laws Constitutional....


----------



## 2aguy (Mar 7, 2022)

g5000 said:


> Then why is the NRA opposing Biden's attempts to stop illegal gun trafficking?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Nothing biden's controllers put out stops gun trafficking....and the democrat party attacks on the police, and their decision to keep releasing violent gun offenders over and over again, is the root of our current crime problem.....


----------



## Abatis (Mar 7, 2022)

g5000 said:


> the courts have rejected every challenge to assault weapons ban,



In the _lower_ federal circuit courts dominated by liberals, by employing a scheme that they invented (the "two-step inquiry") for the singular purpose of ignoring and dismissing SCOTUS so unconstitutional laws could be sustained.

That situation will not be suffered for much longer, see my previous post.



g5000 said:


> including the 1994 federal ban.



I have never read any case that directly challenged the '94 AWB on Second Amendment grounds.  

If you know of some hidden one, heard by some special secret court, can you send me a private message with the password to access the text of that decision?


----------



## Independentthinker (Mar 7, 2022)

g5000 said:


> Then why is the NRA opposing Biden's attempts to stop illegal gun trafficking?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You just don't get it and probably never will. There are laws against murder. Why do you want to make another law against murder when there are already laws against murder? Translation: bad guys don't follow the law and get guns because they don't follow the law. Why would you stupidly think that cracking down on illegal gun trafficking is going to stop bad guys from getting guns? Bad guys get guns in numerous ways, with theft being the number one way. How do gun trafficking laws stop bad guys from stealing guns? The problem isn't guns, it's bad guys. Keep the bad guys locked up and you don't have to worry about them getting guns. Why is that so hard to understand? We recently had an illegal kill four people with a gun. Gun trafficking laws wouldn't have stopped that. What would have stopped that is having a secure border so people like that wouldn't have been here in the first place.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 7, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It's called a dog and pony show.  Trump learned that about being a politician.  Give them something without really giving them anything; throw them a bone.


The NRA is on record not giving a sht about Trumps “ ban “.


Ray From Cleveland said:


> Well it depends on your situation.  I still have friends and family here, plus a side business, so I can't just pack my bags and go like most people.  And the fact Democrats are very overt about destroying great neighborhoods no matter where you move to.  The real solution is to greatly reduce HUD funding so that lowlifes can't easily move into nice areas with government subsidies.  That would take informed and intelligent voters, and it's unfortunate we let everybody vote in this country.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seriously, you can’t survive with a 10 round mag pistol  ? You aren’t going to carry an assault weapon around with you. Thats the main advantage of an assault rifle….light carry, low recoil and firepower. Do you really think you’re going to be attacked  by a herd of wild pigs in heat ? I’m assuming you live in a residential or business area and you want to use a weapon with a 600 yard killing range ? That’s ridiculous. Get a permit, a couple of 20 gauge shotguns that everyone in your family can shoot and carry firearms you’ll always have with you…..with a permit. Hi cap 9 mm way over rated for anyone but a law Enforcement. They’re getting paid to face down multiple threats.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 7, 2022)

Independentthinker said:


> Gun trafficking laws wouldn't have stopped that. What would have stopped that is having a secure border so people like that wouldn't have been here in the first place.


Wrong. States and countries that have stricker gun laws have in average lower gun  crime rates. The lone exceptions are states like Maine where there are more trees then people per acre.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 7, 2022)

Osiris-ODS said:


> Golfing Gator supports banning magazines over 5 rounds. He's full of shit if he's trying to suggest otherwise.


10 round limit seems to be the ones floated around. With 9 shot revolvers on the market and every 9 mm already with a 10 rd mag option, it will do little to disturb the market. Really, no law abiding civilian  will be affected Or limited much for self defense. If they are, they need a lot more target practice.


----------



## Independentthinker (Mar 7, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Wrong. States and countries that have stricker gun laws have in average lower gun  crime rates. The lone exceptions are states like Maine where there are more trees then people per acre.


Crime is going up everywhere and blue people are buying guns to protect themselves.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 7, 2022)

Independentthinker said:


> Crime is going up everywhere and blue people are buying guns to protect themselves.


Blues ALWAYS had guns. It’s a fallacy thinking they didn’t. The biggest difference without question is, the blue house hold might have 5  firearms and the red will have 15.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 7, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Wrong. States and countries that have stricker gun laws have in average lower gun  crime rates. The lone exceptions are states like Maine where there are more trees then people per acre.



Only because you are comparing guns than people.  Guns are harmless.  It's people you need to defend yourself against. 

The leftist logic is to look at guns only.  You can't compare such a multicultural society like ours to any other state or country.  Over 50% of our murders are committed by just 7% of our society, and that are black males.  So when you compare states or countries, that major factor is totally ignored.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 7, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> The NRA is on record not giving a sht about Trumps “ ban “.



Why should they?  Most people never heard of them before the Vegas shooting, and those that have never owned one. 



Dagosa said:


> Seriously, you can’t survive with a 10 round mag pistol ? You aren’t going to carry an assault weapon around with you. Thats the main advantage of an assault rifle….light carry, low recoil and firepower. Do you really think you’re going to be attacked by a herd of wild pigs in heat ? I’m assuming you live in a residential or business area and you want to use a weapon with a 600 yard killing range ? That’s ridiculous. Get a permit, a couple of 20 gauge shotguns that everyone in your family can shoot and carry firearms you’ll always have with you…..with a permit. Hi cap 9 mm way over rated for anyone but a law Enforcement. They’re getting paid to face down multiple threats.



Nobody is going to hurt me at 600 yards, that's why I carry a light weight short range gun.  However in doing so I also realize that a shorter barrel will make me much less accurate which is why I have a 18 round magazine.  If needed, I will miss most of my shots, no different than any gun expert or even your average police officer.  And I'm not going to go to my convenience store to buy a half-gallon of milk some night with a loaded shotgun.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 7, 2022)

g5000 said:


> Thanks for showing your hatred of people with a handicap, bigot.


Being a person with a mental handicap is one thing.  Being a person with a mental handicap, while being president of the United States, is another.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 7, 2022)

g5000 said:


> The "gun grab" hoax is the best marketing ploy ever created by the gun manufacturing lobby.
> 
> OBAMAZ CUMMIN FER YER GUNZ!  BUY MOAR!
> 
> ...


This post would cry some weight, if Biden had not been proposing gun grab policies.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 7, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Why should they?  Most people never heard of them before the Vegas shooting, and those that have never owned one.
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody is going to hurt me at 600 yards, that's why I carry a light weight short range gun.  However in doing so I also realize that a shorter barrel will make me much less accurate which is why I have a 18 round magazine.  If needed, I will miss most of my shots, no different than any gun expert or even your average police officer.  And I'm not going to go to my convenience store to buy a half-gallon of milk some night with a loaded shotgun.


Here's a few more reasons why an 18 round (or a 100 round magazine is not a bad idea.  The day when these guys show up on your front lawn >>


----------



## protectionist (Mar 7, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Trump signed an anti-gun EO that banned bump stocks.  Now, I think that bump stocks are a joke and only a moron would use one, but this action by Trump set a precedent for future presidents to whittle away at gun rights via EOs


Only a gun dummy would think that.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 7, 2022)

g5000 said:


> Then why is the NRA opposing Biden's attempts to stop illegal gun trafficking?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So what good does any of this do when his fellow Democrats appoint AG's or prosecutors that give the most liberal sentences to violent criminals?  Again, guns don't hurt anybody, it's people that hurt and kill other people.  of course the NRA opposes it.  Look at what he offers from your link: 

*Supports local law enforcement with federal tools and resources to address violent crime*

What federal tools are they speaking of they didn't have before? 

*Invests in evidence-based community violence interventions*

Okay can you give me one example of what this means?  


*Expands summer programming, employment opportunities, and other services and supports for teenagers and young adults, and*
*Helps formerly incarcerated individuals successfully reenter their communities.*
So removing a deterrent is going to help in stopping gun crimes?  Where has that ever worked before?  Businesses move out of high crime areas, they don't create them.  Nobody wants to open up a business in a high crime environment.  

*Crack down on the “Iron Pipeline” – the illegal flow of guns sold in the south, transported up the East Coast, and found at crime scenes in cities from Baltimore to New York City – and other firearms trafficking by adding personnel and other resources to strengthen the Justice Department’s multijurisdictional task forces that target interstate firearms trafficking.*

This, from the party that allowed over 2 million illegals to enter this country last year, most untested, most unvaxed?  Then busing or flying them all over our nation coast to coast? 

*Launch a National Ghost Gun Enforcement Initiative, which will train a national cadre of prosecutors and disseminate investigation and prosecution tools to help bring cases against those who use ghost guns to commit crimes. * 

Most violent crimes don't involve any ghost guns.  Next? 

*Pursue unlawful gun sellers that put firearms in the wrong hands by taking steps such as prioritizing federal prosecutions of those who criminally sell or transfer firearms that are used in violent crimes, including unlicensed dealers who sell guns to criminals without the required background checks. *

In other words sales of firearms from person to person, few of which are ever involved in violent crimes.  

This is all nothing but a dog and pony show that won't reduce violent crimes by a percentage of 1%.  Most all of what's contained in this post has to do with federalizing local law enforcment.  I don't have the time to respond to each one, but it's all bullshit.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 8, 2022)

g5000 said:


> The "gun grab" hoax is the best marketing ploy ever created by the gun manufacturing lobby.
> 
> OBAMAZ CUMMIN FER YER GUNZ!  BUY MOAR!
> 
> ...



Now why don't you provide evidence of your claim?  Show me one ad by the "gun manufacturing lobby' that ever made these allegations.  

The most successful people for the sales of guns are those in the Democrat party, not the NRA or any gun organization.  It's those individuals that promise to find a way to disarm law abiding citizens. in response more and more people buy firearms.


----------



## toobfreak (Mar 8, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Biden Position on Guns Is a Joke​



Kinda redundant, isn't it?  Joe's position on ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING is a Joke!





A very BAD one.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 8, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Now why don't you provide evidence of your claim?  Show me one ad by the "gun manufacturing lobby' that ever made these allegations.
> 
> The most successful people for the sales of guns are those in the Democrat party, not the NRA or any gun organization.  It's those individuals that promise to find a way to disarm law abiding citizens. in response more and more people buy firearms.


 That's one way the most successful people for the sales of guns are those in the Democrat party.  The other is the high spikes in crime they cause.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 8, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> read the thread.


dodge


----------



## 2aguy (Mar 8, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Wrong. States and countries that have stricker gun laws have in average lower gun  crime rates. The lone exceptions are states like Maine where there are more trees then people per acre.




Wrong...that isn't true....as Chicago, and other democrat party controlled cities show...but thanks for playing.


----------



## 2aguy (Mar 8, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> 10 round limit seems to be the ones floated around. With 9 shot revolvers on the market and every 9 mm already with a 10 rd mag option, it will do little to disturb the market. Really, no law abiding civilian  will be affected Or limited much for self defense. If they are, they need a lot more target practice.




There is no reason to limit magazine size, other than as baby steps to limiting them more and more ...sorry, screw you......no limits on magazines simply cause you got feelz......


----------



## 2aguy (Mar 8, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Blues ALWAYS had guns. It’s a fallacy thinking they didn’t. The biggest difference without question is, the blue house hold might have 5  firearms and the red will have 15.




Wrong......in cities under total democrat party control crime rates are high...because they keep releasing the most violent criminals, the ones most likely to use illegal guns for murder.


----------



## 2aguy (Mar 8, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So what good does any of this do when his fellow Democrats appoint AG's or prosecutors that give the most liberal sentences to violent criminals?  Again, guns don't hurt anybody, it's people that hurt and kill other people.  of course the NRA opposes it.  Look at what he offers from your link:
> 
> *Supports local law enforcement with federal tools and resources to address violent crime*
> 
> ...




It's always funny........ they bitch about criminals going to states like Indiana to get guns...but the gun murder rate in Indiana...where the guns are...are lower than Chicago's...where they have extreme gun control.....they never address that point...dittos New York.........where their criminals leave the state to get guns, but the states where they get the guns have lower gun crime rates....they are insane.


----------



## 2aguy (Mar 8, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Blues ALWAYS had guns. It’s a fallacy thinking they didn’t. The biggest difference without question is, the blue house hold might have 5  firearms and the red will have 15.




And they way the anti-gun fascists make that claim is to use suicides in Red states and lump them into their total....otherwise their lie is exposed...

New Study Finds Firearms Laws Do Nothing to Prevent Homicides

But what jumps out at you when you read Fleegler’s article is that the decrease in fatalities that he documents relates almost exclusively to suicides. What his study really shows is that strict gun laws have little or no impact on gun homicides:

Compared with the quartile of states with the fewest laws, the quartile with the most laws had a lower firearm suicide rate (absolute rate difference, 6.25 deaths/100 000/y; IRR, 0.63; 95% CI, 0.48-0.83) and a lower firearm homicide rate (absolute rate difference, 0.40 deaths/100 000/y; IRR, 0.60; 95% CI, 0.38-0.95).


http://reason.com/archives/2016/01/05/you-know-less-than-you-think-a/1

Do Gun Laws Stop Gun Crimes?
The same week Kristof's column came out, _National Journal_ attracted major media attention with a showy piece of research and analysis headlined "The States With The Most Gun Laws See The Fewest Gun-Related Deaths." The subhead lamented: "But there's still little appetite to talk about more restrictions."

*Critics quickly noted that the Journal's Libby Isenstein had included suicides among "gun-related deaths" and suicide-irrelevant policies such as stand-your-ground laws among its tally of "gun laws." That meant that high-suicide, low-homicide states such as Wyoming, Alaska, and Idaho were taken to task for their liberal carry-permit policies. Worse, several of the states with what the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence considers terribly lax gun laws were dropped from Isenstein's data set because their murder rates were too low!


Another of National Journal's mistakes is a common one in gun science: The paper didn't look at gun statistics in the context of overall violent crime, a much more relevant measure to the policy debate. After all, if less gun crime doesn't mean less crime overall—if criminals simply substitute other weapons or means when guns are less available—the benefit of the relevant gun laws is thrown into doubt. When Thomas Firey of the Cato Institute ran regressions of Isenstein's study with slightly different specifications and considering all violent crime, each of her effects either disappeared or reversed.*


Another recent well-publicized study trying to assert a positive connection between gun laws and public safety was a 2013 _JAMA_ _Internal Medicine_ article by the Harvard pediatrics professor Eric W. Fleegler and his colleagues, called "Firearm Legislation and Firearm-Related Fatalities in the United States." It offered a mostly static comparison of the toughness of state gun laws (as rated by the gun control lobbyists at the Brady Center) with gun deaths from 2007 to 2010.

*"States with strictest firearm laws have lowest rates of gun deaths," a Boston Globeheadline then announced. But once again, if you take the simple, obvious step of separating out suicides from murders, the correlations that buttress the supposed causations disappear. As John Hinderaker headlined his reaction at the Power Line blog, "New Study Finds Firearm Laws Do Nothing to Prevent Homicides."*


Among other anomalies in Fleegler's research, Hinderaker pointed out that it didn't include Washington, D.C., with its strict gun laws and frequent homicides. If just one weak-gun-law state, Louisiana, were taken out of the equation, "the remaining nine lowest-regulation states have an average gun homicide rate of 2.8 per 100,000, which is 12.5% less than the average of the ten states with the strictest gun control laws," he found.

Public health researcher Garen Wintemute, who advocates stronger gun laws, assessed the spate of gun-law studies during an October interview with _Slate_ and found it wanting: "There have been studies that have essentially toted up the number of laws various states have on the books and examined the association between the number of laws and rates of firearm death," said Wintemute, who is a medical doctor and researcher at the University of California, Davis. "That's really bad science, and it shouldn't inform policymaking."

Wintemute thinks the factor such studies don't adequately consider is the number of people in a state who _have_ guns to begin with, which is generally not known or even well-estimated on levels smaller than national, though researchers have used proxies from subscribers to certain gun-related magazines and percentages of suicides committed with guns to make educated guesses. "Perhaps these laws decrease mortality by decreasing firearm ownership, in which case firearm ownership mediates the association," Wintemute wrote in a 2013 _JAMA_ _Internal Medicine_ paper. "But perhaps, and more plausibly, these laws are more readily enacted in states where the prevalence of firearm ownership is low—there will be less opposition to them—and firearm ownership confounds the association."


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 8, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Why should they?  Most people never heard of them before the Vegas shooting, and those that have never owned one.
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody is going to hurt me at 600 yards, that's why I carry a light weight short range gun.  However in doing so I also realize that a shorter barrel will make me much less accurate which is why I have a 18 round magazine.  If needed, I will miss most of my shots, no different than any gun expert or even your average police officer.  And I'm not going to go to my convenience store to buy a half-gallon of milk some night with a loaded shotgun.


Exactly. But other then a shot gun, there is no such thing as a short range gun. There are firearms that are inaccurate short range. Now, nearly all rifles especially, kill out to hundreds of yards. That’s why assault style rifles are popular and more lethal in the hands of kids and otherwise, people who normally wouldn’t have them. They were originally used by draftees who liked to pray and spray....up to 600 yards. 
The move towards police armored vehicles has followed the path of the AR15.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 8, 2022)

protectionist said:


> That's one way the most successful people for the sales of guns are those in the Democrat party.  The other is the high spikes in crime they cause.


Really ? Many more Conservatives buy guns and ammo  by the cart load.... huge difference. Then, gun holders resell them on the private market. With few exceptions, firearms found their way into the hands of criminals FIRST through a legal sale by an FFL dealer. Gun makers know this. The gun hoarders of the world are united on this effort.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 8, 2022)

Independentthinker said:


> Crime is going up everywhere and blue people are buying guns to protect themselves.


Funny, states and cities with highest crime rates are more likely red populated and  run. So much for that guess. 8 of 10. Seems to be questionable about who is arming themselves more. Conservatives are more fearful and buy firearms in larger numbers IMO.

Anchorage, Alaska.
Memphis, Tennessee Mississippi-Arkansas.
Lubbock, Texas.
Detroit-Dearborn-Livonia, Michigan.
Springfield, Missouri.
San Francisco-San Mateo-Redwood City, California.
Corpus Christi, Texas.
Shreveport-Bossier City, Louisiana.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 8, 2022)

gipper said:


> Every much like the Russia hoax, that dupes Ds and libs.


Oh, Russia is filled with nice guys…..ha ha. Russia  is obviously behind anti democratic effort throughout the world. Helping Trump was no different. Every intel agency we have says the same thing. Trump took Putin’s word over them in fking public. Trump even refused to arm Ukraine unless their pres made up shit on Biden. He didn’t. So blame Trump and Putin love birds for not having enough defense in the invasion.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 8, 2022)

protectionist said:


> dodge


I prefer Ford


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 8, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> I prefer Ford


Most do.


----------



## gipper (Mar 8, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Oh, Russia is filled with nice guys…..ha ha. Russia  is obviously behind anti democratic effort throughout the world. Helping Trump was no different. Every intel agency we have says the same thing. Trump took Putin’s word over them in fking public. Trump even refused to arm Ukraine unless their pres made up shit on Biden. He didn’t. So blame Trump and Putin love birds for not having enough defense in the invasion.


Delusional.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 8, 2022)

gipper said:


> Delusional.


Russia is filled with nice guys, if you’re No. Korea, Iran or Moscow Mitch and his band of Fascist sympathizers. QAnon loves Putin too.


----------



## gipper (Mar 8, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Russia is filled with nice guys, if you’re No. Korea, Iran or Moscow Mitch and his band of Fascist sympathizers. QAnon loves Putin too.


Crazy!


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 8, 2022)

gipper said:


> Crazy!


Yup. Reds are crazy. Between QAnon and believing every conspiracy theory regurgitated by Fix News, no wonder they are bonkers.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 8, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Oh, Russia is filled with nice guys…..ha ha. Russia  is obviously behind anti democratic effort throughout the world. Helping Trump was no different. Every intel agency we have says the same thing. Trump took Putin’s word over them in fking public. Trump even refused to arm Ukraine unless their pres made up shit on Biden. He didn’t. So blame Trump and Putin love birds for not having enough defense in the invasion.



You're been here quite a while.  You should know by now lies don't fly very far here.


----------



## DBA (Mar 8, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Oh, Russia is filled with nice guys…..ha ha. Russia  is obviously behind anti democratic effort throughout the world. Helping Trump was no different. Every intel agency we have says the same thing. Trump took Putin’s word over them in fking public. Trump even refused to arm Ukraine unless their pres made up shit on Biden. He didn’t. So blame Trump and Putin love birds for not having enough defense in the invasion.



You have a thorough misunderstanding of Trump’s relationship with Russia and their reason behind invading Ukraine on Biden’s watch.


----------



## gipper (Mar 8, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Yup. Reds are crazy. Between QAnon and believing every conspiracy theory regurgitated by Fix News, no wonder they are bonkers.


STUPID!


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> It's always funny........ they bitch about criminals going to states like Indiana to get guns...but the gun murder rate in Indiana...where the guns are...are lower than Chicago's...where they have extreme gun control.....they never address that point...dittos New York.........where their criminals leave the state to get guns, but the states where they get the guns have lower gun crime rates....they are insane.



They are told what to think and not why they should be thinking it.  When our suburb started to change, our gun store closed down.  Why?  Because there was no business to be had with poor people and felons.  That gun store was open for years when we were a white middle-class suburbs because we could afford those nice guns, and were able to buy them with no police record. 

So if guns are the problem, how is it all those white middle-class suburbs have a large group of gun owners and never any real problems with violent crime?  These anti-gunners never ask themselves such a question.


----------



## Independentthinker (Mar 8, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Blues ALWAYS had guns. It’s a fallacy thinking they didn’t. The biggest difference without question is, the blue house hold might have 5  firearms and the red will have 15.


So?


----------



## Independentthinker (Mar 8, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Funny, states and cities with highest crime rates are more likely red populated and  run. So much for that guess. 8 of 10. Seems to be questionable about who is arming themselves more. Conservatives are more fearful and buy firearms in larger numbers IMO.
> 
> Anchorage, Alaska.
> Memphis, Tennessee Mississippi-Arkansas.
> ...


What on Earth are you talking about? Most all bigger cities, where the crime is, are run by Democrats.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 8, 2022)

Independentthinker said:


> What on Earth are you talking about? Most all bigger cities, where the crime is, are run by Democrats.


You don’t know the difference between crime rates and total crimes. I bugs you to no end not to see Chicago  in the top ten. It’s 23rd. You’re less safe living in most red states. That’s a a fact, not a theory.
Youve been fed so many lies by Fix news it’s hilarious. You guys don‘t know up from down, right from left.


----------



## 2aguy (Mar 8, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> They are told what to think and not why they should be thinking it.  When our suburb started to change, our gun store closed down.  Why?  Because there was no business to be had with poor people and felons.  That gun store was open for years when we were a white middle-class suburbs because we could afford those nice guns, and were able to buy them with no police record.
> 
> So if guns are the problem, how is it all those white middle-class suburbs have a large group of gun owners and never any real problems with violent crime?  These anti-gunners never ask themselves such a question.




More whites own guns, more blacks commit crimes with guns...

Democrats commit more violent crime with guns than republicans do....

*As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas. These charts exclude suicides, for which data are not available on a congressional district basis, so it only breaks down the fraction of gun violence that is accidental or confrontational.*
*--------*
*
A distinct pattern emerged: In Democratic regions of the country, which tend to be cities, people are more likely to be murdered with a gun than they are to shoot themselves to death.

In regions of the country won by Republicans, which tend to be rural areas and small towns, the opposite is true — people are more likely to shoot themselves to death than they are to be murdered with a gun.
----
In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.*

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...prising-way-gun-violence-is-dividing-america/


----------



## 2aguy (Mar 8, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> You don’t know the difference between crime rates and total crimes. I bugs you to no end not to see Chicago  in the top ten. It’s 23rd. You’re less safe living in most red states. That’s a a fact, not a theory.
> Youve been fed so many lies by Fix news it’s hilarious. You guys don‘t know up from down, right from left.




That is a lie.....Red state crime is concentrated in the blue cities in those states...you liar.


----------



## Mac-7 (Mar 8, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> I prefer Ford


Correction

he means GM cars built in china


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 8, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> Correction
> 
> he means GM cars built in china


It’s getting harder to find a GM car, or any car, that doesn’t have parts built in China.


----------



## Independentthinker (Mar 8, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> You don’t know the difference between crime rates and total crimes. I bugs you to no end not to see Chicago  in the top ten. It’s 23rd. You’re less safe living in most red states. That’s a a fact, not a theory.
> Youve been fed so many lies by Fix news it’s hilarious. You guys don‘t know up from down, right from left.


What on Earth are you talking about? Most all bigger cities, where the crime is, are run by Democrats.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 8, 2022)

Independentthinker said:


> So?



You have to understand liberal logic:  Because a Republican household has three times more guns than a Democrat household, that means the Republican household will be three times more likely to use that gun in an illegal way don't cha see?


----------



## Mac-7 (Mar 8, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> It’s getting harder to find a GM car, or any car, that doesn’t have parts built in China.


GM is importing entire cars china

and we need to slap huge tariffs


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 8, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> GM is importing entire cars china
> 
> and we need to slap huge tariffs


Well, isn’t that interfering with the free market to use slave labor in China instead of union labor here ?


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 8, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You have to understand liberal logic:  Because a Republican household has three times more guns than a Democrat household, that means the Republican household will be three times more likely to use that gun in an illegal way don't cha see?


And pass it on in private sales to any breathing humanoid.


----------



## Mac-7 (Mar 8, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Well, isn’t that interfering with the free market to use slave labor in China instead of union labor here ?


I am not a globalist

it would be better if we bought nothing from china


----------



## Independentthinker (Mar 8, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You have to understand liberal logic:  Because a Republican household has three times more guns than a Democrat household, that means the Republican household will be three times more likely to use that gun in an illegal way don't cha see?


No, I don't see but thanks for at least trying to explain twisted minds to me.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 9, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> I am not a globalist
> 
> it would be better if we bought nothing from china


An pay twice as much for all those semi conductors made here ? First, we have to eliminate all the unions and create our own sweat shops.


----------



## Mac-7 (Mar 9, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> An pay twice as much for all those semi conductors made here ? First, we have to eliminate all the unions and create our own sweat shops.


Make them in thailand or some other country in the region instead of china


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 9, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> Make them in thailand or some other country in the region instead of china


Oh, the areas that China is planning to expand to like Taiwan 
.


----------



## Mac-7 (Mar 9, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Oh, the areas that China is planning to expand to like Taiwan
> .


Dont let china take over Taiwan

they already have you defeated and looking for some CCP official to surrender to


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 9, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> An pay twice as much for all those semi conductors made here ? First, we have to eliminate all the unions and create our own sweat shops.



Not if they were the only semi-conductors around to purchase.  We'd have to buy them.

What we really need is leadership from the top to promote Buy American.  Every product made solely in the US should have to have a Buy American sticker on it for people to easily identify their product as putting an American to work.  It would be a big red, white and blue sticker with our flag in the background located at the front of the product.  Even places like Amazon would have to put it was a made in America product in their catalog description. 

If DumBama can force restaurants to post calorie count of every item they sell, we can do the same with a Buy America sticker.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 10, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Not if they were the only semi-conductors around to purchase. We'd have to buy them.


It’s called the free market. Are you advocating its elimination ?


----------



## Dadoalex (Mar 10, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...


The court will turn and reason will return.

Till then buy more guns.
That way you''ll have less money for other stupid stuff.

Oh, and...
I invite you to get a "six shooter" with an extended magazine.

Geez.


----------



## Dadoalex (Mar 10, 2022)

Flash said:


> View attachment 601615


Rural?

No Blacks so I guess you're just shooting one another.

THAT is what the stats say.
Most firearm deaths are the result of the gun owner killing:
Himself
His family
His friends
His neighbors

So, please, buy more guns.  Kill more of yourselves.

I say win win!


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 10, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> Rural?
> 
> No Blacks so I guess you're just shooting one another.
> 
> ...


The only problem is, the more guns they buy, the more guns are moved on to felons, underaged and mentally incompetent, which sometimes occurs during  the first purchase by gunaholics.


----------



## Flash (Mar 10, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> Rural?
> 
> No Blacks so I guess you're just shooting one another.
> 
> ...




Many of those gun crimes where the shooter kills his family, friends or neighbors are inner city Black on Black crime.  However, many more are druggies, gang bangers and street thugs, mostly in minority communities, in these filthy ass big city Democrat controlled ghetto shitholes.  That is the great amount of gun crime in this country.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 10, 2022)

Flash said:


> Many of those gun crimes where the shooter kills his family, friends or neighbors are inner city Black on Black crime.  However, many more are druggies, gang bangers and street thugs, mostly in minority communities, in these filthy ass big city Democrat controlled ghetto shitholes.  That is the great amount of gun crime in this country.


Sure,  that‘s what makes most of the ten most dangerous cities under Republican control. Hilarious. You guys just make up shit. Most crime are by whites. 80% of murders were white on white. Keep making up shit. Fix News lives it.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Mar 10, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Ironically Trump did more to limit the 2nd than Obama.


Banning bump stocks doesn't limit the 2nd Amendment.

Now, redefining words and giving them fake definitions, is infringing on our 2A rights.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 10, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Banning bump stocks doesn't limit the 2nd Amendment.



So, you are ok with the Govt banning any accessory they wish for fire arms?   If they can ban the bump stock, why not scopes or suppressors or magazines above a certain size?

Once the door is open, it will never get closed again...and Trump did his best to open it


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Mar 10, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> So, you are ok with the Govt banning any accessory they wish for fire arms?   If they can ban the bump stock, why not scopes or suppressors or magazines above a certain size?
> 
> Once the door is open, it will never get closed again...and Trump did his best to open it


You don't understand the difference between those items and a bump stock.  Do you?


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 10, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Banning bump stocks doesn't limit the 2nd Amendment.
> 
> Now, redefining words and giving them fake definitions, is infringing on our 2A rights.


Yup. Got to protect the rights right to arm felons, underaged kids and the mentally deranged.


----------



## Flash (Mar 10, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Sure,  that‘s what makes most the ten most dangerous cities under Republican control. Hilarious. You guys just make up shit. Most crime is by whites.




Sorry Moon Bat but you are confused.  The great majority of gun crime in this country are in the Democrat controlled big city shitholes like Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, Dallas, New York, DC, Atlanta, Memphis, Houston, San Francisco, Philadelphia, etc.  I could go on and on.

Hell, Chicago by itself had 4,542 shootings last year just by itself.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Mar 10, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Yup. Got to protect the rights right to arm felons, underaged kids and the mentally deranged.


Anyone who can't be trusted with a firearm should be locked up.  As far as kids go, it's their parents' job to regulate their use of firearms.  BTW, an 18 year old isn't a "child".  They're trusted with our national security.  They can be trusted to own a gun.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 10, 2022)

Flash said:


> Sorry Moon Bat but you are confused.  The great majority of gun crime in this country are in the Democrat controlled big city shitholes like Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, Dallas, New York, DC, Atlanta, Memphis, Houston, San Francisco, Philadelphia, etc.  I could go on and on.
> 
> Hell, Chicago by itself had 4,542 shootings last year just by itself.


Silly you. You’re truly astonished that the more people you have, the more shootings there will be. Maybe the math of rates keeps you from posting the truth. The most dangerous places to live, are mostly in gop controlled cities and states.
Here  they are !
Most dangerous states in America for 2021:​
New Mexico (Photos)
Alaska (Photos)
Louisiana (Photos)
Arkansas (Photos)
South Carolina (Photos)
Tennessee (Photos)
Alabama (Photos)
Oklahoma (Photos)
Missouri (Photos)
Arizona (Photos)


----------



## Flash (Mar 10, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Silly you. You’re truly astonished that the more people you have, the more shootings there will be. Maybe the math of rates keeps you from posting the truth. The most dangerous places to live, are mostly in gop controlled cities and states.
> Here  they are !
> Most dangerous states in America for 2021:​
> New Mexico (Photos)
> ...


You are really confused Moon Bat.

Alabama (including Democrat controlled Birmingham), Louisiana (including New Democrat New Orleans) Arkansas (including Little Rock) , Alaska and South Carolina (with high Negro population) combined don't have the shootings that Chicago by itself has.  I would include Tennessee in that list but it has that Democrat controlled shithole of Memphis that would skew the results a little.

New Mexico and Arizona have all those goddamn Illegals so no wonder they are dangerous.

Besides, there is really no such thing as red States and Blue States.  There are the filthy ass Democrat controlled big city shitholes and the rest of America.   Most of the crime in this country take place in the Democrat controlled big city shitholes.

Pull your head out of your ass.  You embarrass yourself with your stupidity.


----------



## Dadoalex (Mar 10, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> The only problem is, the more guns they buy, the more guns are moved on to felons, underaged and mentally incompetent, which sometimes occurs during  the first purchase by gunaholics.


Yes but if we can get them to kill one another off the problem will solve itself.


----------



## Dadoalex (Mar 10, 2022)

Flash said:


> Many of those gun crimes where the shooter kills his family, friends or neighbors are inner city Black on Black crime.  However, many more are druggies, gang bangers and street thugs, mostly in minority communities, in these filthy ass big city Democrat controlled ghetto shitholes.  That is the great amount of gun crime in this country.


Lies.
Not what the actual factual data says.
Just your NRA propaganda that you're too naïve to understand.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 10, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> You don't understand the difference between those items and a bump stock.  Do you?



They are all accessories, if you can ban one, you can ban them all.  None are vital to the operation of a fire arm. 

That is the problem with the EO.

If Biden or Obama had made the exact same EO you would be losing your shit.  But you are mindless drone and are not allowed to ever say a fucking bad thing about Trump.

Shitty way to live, but it seems to make you happy


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Mar 10, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> They are all accessories, if you can ban one, you can ban them all.  None are vital to the operation of a fire arm.
> 
> That is the problem with the EO.
> 
> ...


A magazine isn't an accessory.  It's literally a required component for the gun to function...lol

I've said many-a-time that Trump's EO banning bump stocks is unconstitutional.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 10, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> A magazine isn't an accessory. It's literally a required component for the gun to function...lol



Yes, but a 30 rd magazine is not a required component for the gun to function.  It functions the same with a 5 round magazine.   So, you would be cool with the Govt banning anything above 5 rounds? 

A scope is not a required component for the gun to function, so you would be good with the Govt banning them?


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Mar 10, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Yes, but a 30 rd magazine is not a required component for the gun to function.  It functions the same with a 5 round magazine.   So, you would be cool with the Govt banning anything above 5 rounds?
> 
> A scope is not a required component for the gun to function, so you would be good with the Govt banning them?


A 30 round magazine is necessary to provide superiority of fire.

A scope increases accuracy, especially for someone with poor eye sight.  Increased accuracy lowers the possibility of missing the target and hitting a innocent during a self defense situation.

Suppressors illuminate noise pollution and prevent hearing damage.  They also allow the use of subsonic ammunition.  In a self defense scenario, in a home, the shooters hear drums can take a lot of shock from an unsuppressed firearm using super sonic ammunition.  It also reduces recoil, creates better accuracy and quicker follow up shots.

A bump stock is a toy that has no other purpose than to waste ammo for recreation.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 10, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> It’s called the free market. Are you advocating its elimination ?



I'm all for heavy tariffs on products that contain Chinese parts in them.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> Dont let china take over Taiwan
> 
> they already have you defeated and looking for some CCP official to surrender to


You have a plan for controlling China....like ww3


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 11, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> A 30 round magazine is necessary to provide superiority of fire.



yet it is still not a required component for the gun to function, thus using your logic for the bump stock, you would cool with the government banning. 



Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> A scope increases accuracy, especially for someone with poor eye sight. Increased accuracy lowers the possibility of missing the target and hitting a innocent during a self defense situation.



yet it is still not a required component for the gun to function, thus using your logic for the bump stock, you would cool with the government banning



Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Suppressors illuminate noise pollution and prevent hearing damage. They also allow the use of subsonic ammunition. In a self defense scenario, in a home, the shooters hear drums can take a lot of shock from an unsuppressed firearm using super sonic ammunition. It also reduces recoil, creates better accuracy and quicker follow up shots.



yet it is still not a required component for the gun to function, thus using your logic for the bump stock, you would cool with the government banning



Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> A bump stock is a toy that has no other purpose than to waste ammo for recreation.



you open the door to ban one, you open the door to ban them all.  Why can you partisan drones not see this?


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 11, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I'm all for heavy tariffs on products that contain Chinese parts in them.



so you are anti-free market?


----------



## Mac-7 (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> You have a plan for controlling China....like ww3


You offer a pretty stark choice

Total surrender to whatever china wants or WWIII?

is that how you see the world?


----------



## Mac-7 (Mar 11, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> so you are anti-free market?


If you choose to call it that then YES, I dont want our way of life to be chosen for us  by a communist dictatorship in peking

Weird huh?


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> You offer a pretty stark choice
> 
> Total surrender to whatever china wants or WWIII?
> 
> is that how you see the world?


At least I see the real world. “ don’t let China have Taiwan” is not a plan. It’s a fake wish list. Funny, but fake.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> If you choose to call it that then YES, I dont want our way of life to be chosen for us  by a communist dictatorship in peking
> 
> Weird huh?


Funny, the right seems to feel that way with Russia.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> Yes but if we can get them to kill one another off the problem will solve itself.


Kidding me ? They need scopes for their poor eyesight. They’ll be shooting innocents before they hit each other..


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I'm all for heavy tariffs on products that contain Chinese parts in them.


So, you’re not for free markets.


----------



## Mac-7 (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Funny, the right seems to feel that way with Russia.


Thats a lib lie

putin and Xi are working together just like stalin and mao did back in the day

and conservatives see both as a threat


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> Thats a lib lie
> 
> putin and Xi are working together just like stalin and mao did back in the day
> 
> and conservatives see both as a threat


Really ? Tell that to Fix News, the major Putin Humpers and  your national anthem of made up sht.


----------



## Mac-7 (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Really ? Tell that to Fix News, the major Putin Humpers and  your national anthem of made up sht.


Thats total bullshit

you may convince libs who get their screwy leftwing opinions from CNN or NPR 

but the fact is that conservatives are not pro russia


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> and conservatives see both as a threat


Actually,  conservatives  see diversity and non whites as the biggest threat. Russia being the prime white supremacists hold outs are one of their assets.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> Thats total bullshit
> 
> you may convince libs who get their screwy leftwing opinions from CNN or NPR
> 
> but the fact is that conservatives are not pro russia


Really. You  elected a dictator Humper.


----------



## Mac-7 (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Actually,  conservatives  see diversity and non whites as the biggest threat. Russia being the prime white supremacists hold outs are one of their assets.


While at the same time liberals want to make America a white minority country

which is a very stupid thing to do


----------



## Mac-7 (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Really. You  elected a dictator Humper.


Your are not fooling anyone except yourself


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> While at the same time libetals want to make America a white minority country
> 
> which is a very stupid thing to do


Congrats. At least you admit to being a white supremacist. 
we heard that argument before when it was the right saying “ it’s stooopid to make America a Christian minority.”


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> Your are not fooling anyone except yourself


So Trump was not a dictator Humper ?   Could have fooled the world.


----------



## Mac-7 (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Congrats. At least you admit to being a white supremacist.
> we heard that argument before when it was the right saying “ it’s stooopid to make America a Christian minority.”


I admit being smart enough to realize that contrary to liberal dogma white people are not evil and do not deserve to be replaced

wanting to preserve white culture and values is better than the genocide you support


----------



## Mac-7 (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> At least I see the real world. “ don’t let China have Taiwan” is not a plan. It’s a fake wish list. Funny, but fake.


Its a worthy goal

china wants Taiwan and the entire south china sea where 40% of world trade passes through

China wants dominion over all the nations in the region including vietnam, indonesis, phippines, and maylasia

and they can do it if the United States is driven back to hawaii


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> I admit being smart enough to realize that contrary to liberal dogma white people are not evil and do not deserve to be replaced
> 
> wanting to preserve white culture and values is better than the genocide you support


Since when are white people being replaced ? Sounds like the typical fear mongering white supremacist whining. Look in the mirror. The conservative wing is promoting it behind your backs. There are no conservative groups that want to hold employers accountable for hiring illegals…..none.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> Its a worthy goal
> 
> china wants Taiwan and the entire south china sea where 40% of world trade passes through
> 
> ...


You still have no plan. Conservatives are wishful thinkers. Everything for nothing. They’re free loaders. They’re against unions and universal healthcare instead of employer based HC which keeps labor costs high and want everything made here for the same price. Unbelievable. .


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Mar 11, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> yet it is still not a required component for the gun to function, thus using your logic for the bump stock, you would cool with the government banning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How many times do I have to say that the bump stock ban is unconstitutional?


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 11, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> How many times do I have to say that the bump stock ban is unconstitutional?



You say that once, and then you defend it and Trump 100 times.   

And even with that you still cannot bring yourself to say that Trump was wrong for doing it.


----------



## Mac-7 (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Since when are white people being replaced ?



the level of hate by libs toward white people and white culture is shocking

the impact of 2 million illegal aliens (all minority) into the United States will have a profound impact on future demographics


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Mar 11, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> You say that once, and then you defend it and Trump 100 times.
> 
> And even with that you still cannot bring yourself to say that Trump was wrong for doing it.


Show me where I defended it.  We'll wait.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 11, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Show me where I defended it.  We'll wait.



Post 166, 168 and 177


----------



## Mac-7 (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> There are conservative groups that want to hold employers accountable for hiring illegals…..none.


I hold the federal government to blame for every illegal working in America thanks to open borders and the wipe-every-nose welfare system that creates a shortage of legal workers

libs like you want to make employers our new immigration enforcers


----------



## Mac-7 (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> You still have no plan.


You mean biden has no plan

we have the US, Japanese, Australian navies plus freedom loving nations around the globe to assist Taiwan


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> I hold the federal government to blame for every illegal working in America thanks to open borders and the wipe-every-nose welfare system that creates a shortage of legal workers
> 
> *libs like you want to make employers our new immigration enforcers*


Since when have there been open borders ? Dems have deported more immigrants then Trump ever thought of. 

That’s hilarious. How hard is it for an employer to ask for an ID and a visa ? So you worked your entire life and never had to produce an ID or proof of legitimacy to your employer ? You must live in OZ. More made up sht.


----------



## Mac-7 (Mar 11, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> You say that once, and then you defend it and Trump 100 times.
> 
> And even with that you still cannot bring yourself to say that Trump was wrong for doing it.


Neither can you ever say trump was right about anything

being a partisan works both ways


----------



## Mac-7 (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Since when have there been open borders ? Dems have deported more immigrants then Trump ever thought of.


Go peddle that lie somewhere else

biden accepted 2 million illegal aliens this year alone


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> You mean biden has no plan
> 
> we have the US, Japanese, Australian navies plus freedom loving nations around the globe to assist Taiwan


Assist them how ? Ww3 ? Biden has no plan ? Universal healthcare would bring more jobs to the US in droves. Businesses would instantly realize a near 15% profit if they didn’t have to offer a HC benefits package. Canada steals our labor because corps there don’t have to pay HC cost package.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> Neither can you ever say trump was right about anything
> 
> being a partisan works both ways


He was right about liking the uneducated and getting their support. They can be lied to and never know the difference.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> I hold the federal government to blame for every illegal working in America thanks to open borders and the wipe-every-nose welfare system that creates a shortage of legal workers
> 
> libs like you want to make employers our new immigration enforcers


Ah, we don’t have a welfare system for  illegals. . Illegal Immigrants can’t get Medicare or SS . They can only get paid through the illegal actions of the businesses that hire them.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> How many times do I have to say that the bump stock ban is unconstitutional?


Why ?  You think kids should be able to buy full autos and  bump stocks  on the street corner ?


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> Neither can you ever say trump was right about anything


Yes, Trump was right about the uneducated and white supremacists supporting him.


----------



## Mac-7 (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Assist them how ? Ww3 ?


So for you china can do whatever it pleases because you fear WWIII?

thats sad


----------



## Mac-7 (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Ah, we don’t have a welfare system for illegals. . Illegal Immigrants can’t get Medicare or SS .


Oh?

biden took in 2 million illegals

they dont have green cards and cant work

half of them are children

so how do they eat if the welfare state does not feed them?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Assist them how ? Ww3 ? Biden has no plan ? Universal healthcare would bring more jobs to the US in droves. Businesses would instantly realize a near 15% profit if they didn’t have to offer a HC benefits package. Canada steals our labor because corps there don’t have to pay HC cost package.



So how much labor does Canada steal from us?  Have a link to that?


----------



## Mac-7 (Mar 11, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> Oh?
> 
> biden took in 2 million illegals
> 
> ...


Dagosa 

when are you going to answer this question?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Since when have there been open borders ? Dems have deported more immigrants then Trump ever thought of.
> 
> That’s hilarious. How hard is it for an employer to ask for an ID and a visa ? So you worked your entire life and never had to produce an ID or proof of legitimacy to your employer ? You must live in OZ. More made up sht.











						Fake ID market bypasses anti-fraud measures
					

High-quality fake IDs are readily available on the internet




					www.techradar.com
				




Then there are also commie judges to worry about. 









						Court Rules Illegal Aliens Can Sue over “Discriminatory Employment Policy” Requiring Green Cards - Judicial Watch
					

For the second time in a few years, a federal court has ruled that illegal immigrants can sue American employers that refuse to hire them because they require workers to be U.S. citizens or legal residents (green card holders). The latest blow to the rule of law was delivered by an...



					www.judicialwatch.org


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Mar 11, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Post 166, 168 and 177


Post the quotes.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Assist them how ? Ww3 ? Biden has no plan ? Universal healthcare would bring more jobs to the US in droves. Businesses would instantly realize a near 15% profit if they didn’t have to offer a HC benefits package. Canada steals our labor because corps there don’t have to pay HC cost package.


They would see a 25% increase in taxes...lol


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Since when are white people being replaced ? Sounds like the typical fear mongering white supremacist whining. Look in the mirror. The conservative wing is promoting it behind your backs. There are no conservative groups that want to hold employers accountable for hiring illegals…..none.



The larger plan is for the Communists to make whites a minority in this country for the first time since our founding.  Why do you think they are ushering South Americans into the country?  Once they achieve that goal, we will have a one-party country forever.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Really. You  elected a dictator Humper.



So in what way was he a dictator?  Did he try to force Americans to take medication they didn't want?  Did he have them fired for not obeying his commands?  Did he use a federal agency for personal matters like getting warrants to find his daughters diary?  Give us an example of his dictator policies.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Actually,  conservatives  see diversity and non whites as the biggest threat. Russia being the prime white supremacists hold outs are one of their assets.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> So, you’re not for free markets.



International markets, no I'm not.  Domestic markets, yes I am.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 11, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Post the quotes.



People are free to go look at the post.

Also, you said this...._Banning bump stocks doesn't limit the 2nd Amendment._

And now you say that the EO was unconstitutional.

So, which part of the Constitution does it violate since you said it does not violate the 2nd?

Thanks


----------



## Dadoalex (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Kidding me ? They need scopes for their poor eyesight. They’ll be shooting innocents before they hit each other..


Nah!
Think AL just decided that you can get a concealed carry with no identification or training.
Just put them all in a room together and eventually the "fun" will begin.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Mar 11, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> People are free to go look at the post.
> 
> Also, you said this...._Banning bump stocks doesn't limit the 2nd Amendment._
> 
> ...


It violated Article 2 and the 5th Amendment.

Article 2 doesn't give the president power to make laws.

The 5th Amendment says that no person shall be, "deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law"


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> Nah!
> Think AL just decided that you can get a concealed carry with no identification or training.
> Just put them all in a room together and eventually the "fun" will begin.


As long as the room is bullet proof. I have no illusions about all gunaholics knowing wtf they are doing.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> It violated Article 2 and the 5th Amendment.
> 
> Article 2 doesn't give the president power to make laws.
> 
> The 5th Amendment says that no person shall be, "deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law"


And due process is obeying the regulations set for by law Or you then become subject to their enforcement.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> And due process is obeying the regulations set for by law Or you then become subject to their enforcement.


But, only Congress can make laws.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> Dagosa
> 
> 
> Mac-7 said:
> ...


As soon as you provide proof that Biden himself was responsible for 2 million aliens


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> But, only Congress can make laws.





Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> But, only Congress can make laws.


What’s your point ? It’s the judiciary that is responsible for your due process. They interpret the laws and apply them.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> What’s your point ?


The president CAN'T make laws, is my point.  Nor can any government agency.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> It violated Article 2 and the 5th Amendment.
> 
> Article 2 doesn't give the president power to make laws.
> 
> The 5th Amendment says that no person shall be, "deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law"


Make no mistake…bump stocks make semi auto function like full auto


----------



## scruffy (Mar 11, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...


Biden has a position?

Amazing.

Here's mine: I don't take medical advice from politicians, and I don't rely on politicians for self and family defense.

They can argue about it all they want, pass all the dumbass laws they want, makes no difference.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Make no mistake…bump stocks make semi auto function like full auto


So?


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> The president CAN'T make laws, is my point.  Nor can any government agency.


I dont believe I ever said differently. What’s your point ?  The president can make proposals……that‘s it. His signature is REQUIRED BEFORE the legislation becomes law after passage by congress. HIS signature is required with out a super majority.
Congress (House as Senate) can override a President's veto by passing the bill by a 2/3 majority. *This is the only way that a bill can become law without a Presidential signature. In the United St*


----------



## scruffy (Mar 11, 2022)

g5000 said:


> Thanks for showing your hatred of people with a handicap, bigot.


In Joe's case it's not a handicap, it's voluntary.

It might have something to do with the teleprompter. Just saying


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> International markets, no I'm not.  Domestic markets, yes I am.


You have a strange idea that local corporations don’t receive products directly from foreign sources. Have you ever look at the labels on the goods in stores to see where they were made. There is no such thing as free enterprise “ just locally ” 
forcall goods. It’s scary you would even thin,  that.

Guess you never worked in retail.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> Think AL just decided that you can get a concealed carry with no identification or training.


?


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Biden has a position?
> 
> Amazing.
> 
> ...


Trump the dufus was giving* all sorts of medical advice. Biden is a lawyer. Trump wasn’t a fking doctor, lawyer or scientist but managed to tell everyone he  was smarter. Funny thing, his advice was more often wrong if you could even keep up with his lies.


----------



## Mac-7 (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> As soon as you provide proof that Biden himself was responsible for 2 million aliens


He’s the president who welcomed them in


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 11, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> He’s the president who welcomed them in


Got a  Reference ? Maybe a post from Fix and Friends


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Make no mistake…bump stocks make semi auto function like full auto


No they don't.  They don't make a semi-automatic function ANYTHING like an automatic.  Even with a bump stock, it's still semi-automatic.


----------



## Mac-7 (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Got a  Reference ? Maybe a post from Fix and Friends


Where have you been for the past year?









						DHS encountered a record 2 million illegal immigrants on southern border in 2021
					

Homeland Security recorded more than 2 million encounters with illegal immigrants at the southern border last year, shattering previous records, as the Biden administration relaxed the country’s immigration policies.




					m.washingtontimes.com


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Trump the dufus was giving* all sorts of medical advice. Biden is a lawyer. Trump wasn’t a fking doctor, lawyer or scientist but managed to tell everyone he  was smarter. Funny thing, his advice was more often wrong if you could even keep up with his lies.



So what kind of medical advice did Trump supposedly give?  It's Dementia that insisted all Americans take the vaccine regardless of your circumstance.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> You have a strange idea that local corporations don’t receive products directly from foreign sources. Have you ever look at the labels on the goods in stores to see where they were made. There is no such thing as free enterprise “ just locally ”
> forcall goods. It’s scary you would even thin,  that.
> 
> Guess you never worked in retail.



I do realize that which is why I said we need a policy that American made goods be stamped saying so.  If DumBama can force restaurants to post calorie count on all items they sell, then  we can force industry to alert consumers when they are choosing between a foreign and American made product.  The American made product should have to have an emblem made of red, white and blue saying the product is 100% made in the US, and that all internet and catalog descriptions of the product include where it's made.  

When I order a product from Amazon I have no idea where it came from until it gets to my door and I open the box.  I want to boycott all Chinese products but that's damn near impossible to do.  A Made in America law would tell everybody if they are buying a foreign made or American made product.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Make no mistake…bump stocks make semi auto function like full auto



Not really because full automatics are designed to take intense heat.  Semi-automatics are not which is why the Vegas shooter had ammo jams and had to switch weapons several times during his attack.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Trump the dufus was giving* all sorts of medical advice. Biden is a lawyer. Trump wasn’t a fking doctor, lawyer or scientist but managed to tell everyone he  was smarter. Funny thing, his advice was more often wrong if you could even keep up with his lies.


(shrug)

I didn't take medical advice from Trump either.

Politicians are stupid. They're not MD's.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 11, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> As soon as you provide proof that Biden himself was responsible for 2 million aliens











						President Biden’s Executive Actions on Immigration - The Center for Migration Studies of New York (CMS)
					

Biden’s administrative actions will reshape the US immigration system and federal agencies after four years of aggressive actions to restrict immigration.




					cmsny.org


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 12, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> President Biden’s Executive Actions on Immigration - The Center for Migration Studies of New York (CMS)
> 
> 
> Biden’s administrative actions will reshape the US immigration system and federal agencies after four years of aggressive actions to restrict immigration.
> ...


Ha ha…laughable.
That’s no,proof that more illegals will be let in under Biden. As a matter of fact, it’s proof that more control and FEWER illegals will be let into the  country. Laughable. Trump never got so specific and organized.
like…addressing deportation of….

Those who have engaged in or are suspected of terrorism or espionage, or whose arrest is otherwise necessary to protect national security;
Individuals apprehended at the border or ports of entry while attempting to unlawfully enter the United States on or after November 1, 2020; and
Individuals released from incarceration on or after January 20, 2021, who have been convicted of an aggravated felony and who pose a threat to public safety


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 12, 2022)

scruffy said:


> (shrug)
> 
> I didn't take medical advice from Trump either.
> 
> Politicians are stupid. They're not MD's.


You’ve  been hanging around too many GOP politicians if you think they’re all stupid.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 12, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Ha ha…laughable.
> That’s no,proof that more illegals will be let in under Biden. As a matter of fact, it’s proof that more control and FEWER illegals will be let into the  country. Laughable. Trump never got so specific and organized.
> like…addressing deportation of….
> 
> ...



The Border Patrol disagrees with you totally. 









						U.S. officials come across nearly 2 million unauthorized migrants in FY 2021
					

EL PASO, Texas (Border Report) – Almost 2 million people entered the United States without authorization in the 12-month period ending on Sept. 30, the U.S. government reported on Friday.




					www.borderreport.com


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 13, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The Border Patrol disagrees with you totally.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No they don’t. They agree with me.  Read the article. They were apprehended. Sounds like they’re doin* their job. You do know how that works don‘t you. Do you know what APPREHENDED means right ?

”*Most of the 1.96 million migrants apprehended by the U.S. Border Patrol and the Office of Field Operations of U.S. Customs and Border Protection in Fiscal Year 2021 took place at the southern border,”*

Both Obama and Biden in one year have removed more illegals then Trump In the same time period.

You guys need to catch up on your reading skills. Let in and apprehended are not the same. Get a dictionary. 
“
” Last year, the Trump administration removed 256,085 unauthorized immigrants from the country. The number of unauthorized immigrants removed by ICE hit 409,849 in 2013 under Obama, according to government data.”


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 13, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> No they don’t. They agree with me.  Read the article. They were apprehended. Sounds like they’re doin* their job. You do know how that works don‘t you. Do you know what APPREHENDED means right ?
> 
> ”*Most of the 1.96 million migrants apprehended by the U.S. Border Patrol and the Office of Field Operations of U.S. Customs and Border Protection in Fiscal Year 2021 took place at the southern border,”*
> 
> ...



_The agency says that repeat crossers – migrants who are apprehended, expelled and then attempt to come in again multiple times – are skewing the numbers. For instance, officials only identified 1.15 million unique individuals in Fiscal Year 2021.

No estimate was provided for “got-aways,” the thousands of migrants who evade detection and whose entry is thus never recorded.

“I don’t think this is a surprise,” Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton said during a visit to El Paso on Thursday. “The Trump administration changed to policies that lower the number of illegal immigrants significantly. When the Biden administration came in, they completely went back to the old policies and accelerated this.”

He was referring to the rollback of the Migrant Protection Protocols (MPP) program, which he and Missouri Attorney General Eric Schmitt sued successfully to restore, and to the halt of border wall construction, which is also under litigation now.

September data shows three out of four single adults encountered were expelled to Mexico under the Title 42 public health rule, but only one out of four families was sent back. The overall numbers for September show a 9 percent drop from the previous month, going from 208,887 to 192,001.

In the El Paso Sector, the Border Patrol is dealing with a record surge in migrant stash houses – homes, apartments, trailer homes and even barns – where smugglers keep newly arrived unauthorized foreign nationals while they arrange transportation for them to the interior of the country._

As far as DumBama's numbers, those were as phony as a three dollar bill: 









						High deportation figures are misleading
					

Immigrants living illegally beyond the border area are less likely to be deported under 'deporter in chief' President Obama, contrary to widespread belief.




					www.latimes.com


----------



## scruffy (Mar 13, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> You’ve  been hanging around too many GOP politicians if you think they’re all stupid.


They're ALL stupid, every last one of them.

They're so stupid they don't even talk to the doctors, they only talk to the public policy wonks who are twice as stupid as they are in the first place!


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 14, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> _The agency says that repeat crossers – migrants who are apprehended, expelled and then attempt to come in again multiple times – are skewing the numbers. For instance, officials only identified 1.15 million unique individuals in Fiscal Year 2021.
> 
> No estimate was provided for “got-aways,” the thousands of migrants who evade detection and whose entry is thus never recorded.
> 
> ...


Another bogus self incrimination self incriminating reference So, you’re now saying it was less then 2 million. Or, are you saying Trump could not catch them the second time. Either way, you’re wrong as shit.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 14, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Another bogus self incrimination self incriminating reference So, you’re now saying it was less then 2 million. Or, are you saying Trump could not catch them the second time. Either way, you’re wrong as shit.



That's how they gauge how many got in, by how many they catch.  It's impossible for the BP to catch them all and they know it.  That's why since the first time the BP was created, they threw their support behind a presidential candidate like Trump.  It took him some time fighting with the House and their commie brothers in the court, but once Trump's policies came true, border crossings were reduced by 90% in 2019.  

Dementia reversed all that, and not only did he reverse Trump's policies, he promised blanket amnesty to all illegals who are in the country at the time of the proclamation.  That's like putting out a jar of honey by a bees nest you're trying to get rid of.  

The biggest problem is he reversed Trump's Stay in Mexico policy which made asylum seekers wait outside our borders until their court date.  They were then escorted to court and returned back to Mexico upon the courts decision they were not applicable for asylum.  Under the Catch and Release program created by DumBama, people who applied for asylum were allowed to stay in the country until their court date which many didn't show up for.  Dementia brought that failed program back.  









						A review of President Biden’s first year on border policy
					

President Biden’s policies have completely failed the American people, but it is not too late for him to change course. To secure the border President Biden must reimplement the proven policie…




					thehill.com


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 14, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> That's how they gauge how many got in, by how many they catch.  It's impossible for the BP to catch them all and they know it.  That's why since the first time the BP was created, they threw their support behind a presidential candidate like Trump.  It took him some time fighting with the House and their commie brothers in the court, but once Trump's policies came true, border crossings were reduced by 90% in 2019.
> 
> Dementia reversed all that, and not only did he reverse Trump's policies, he promised blanket amnesty to all illegals who are in the country at the time of the proclamation.  That's like putting out a jar of honey by a bees nest you're trying to get rid of.
> 
> ...


Wow. Biden is rewriting Trumps agenda that violated human rights and caged children. Followed by  the old dementia fear mongering. Not very impressive when Trump couldn‘t read  three syllable words. Of course, not being able to read never stopped Trump or his supporter Humpers from making up shit.


Boy, you’re sure vacillating off the 3 million claim with each rebuttal. White supremacy is hard to rationalize isn’t it ?


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 15, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> That's how they gauge how many got in, by how many they catch.


That’s ridiculous. By your reasoning, if they stayed home and refused to catch anyone, the illegal problem would go away. Only foolish people think like your post.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 15, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Wow. Biden is rewriting Trumps agenda that violated human rights and caged children. Followed by  the old dementia fear mongering. Not very impressive when Trump couldn‘t read  three syllable words. Of course, not being able to read never stopped Trump or his supporter Humpers from making up shit.
> 
> 
> Boy, you’re sure vacillating off the 3 million claim with each rebuttal. White supremacy is hard to rationalize isn’t it ?





Dagosa said:


> Wow. Biden is rewriting Trumps agenda that violated human rights and caged children. Followed by  the old dementia fear mongering. Not very impressive when Trump couldn‘t read  three syllable words. Of course, not being able to read never stopped Trump or his supporter Humpers from making up shit.
> 
> 
> Boy, you’re sure vacillating off the 3 million claim with each rebuttal. White supremacy is hard to rationalize isn’t it ?



So what will this country look like when it's a minority supremacy?  Detroit?  My city of Cleveland?  Baltimore?  Venezuela?  Guatemala?  

Yeah, those caged children.  You mean those same caged children the MSM published with pictures of them under DumBama?  So where is Dementia keeping those children?  In containers.  You know, those trailers you see on boats sitting in California harbors?  Oh, and don't try to see what's inside.  Dementia won't let anybody inside who doesn't work for the government.  

People stopped coming here when Trump policies were in place because they knew it would be fruitless.  Stay in Mexico is not violating anybody's human rights.  Forcing Mexico to stop migrants from crossing their country to get to ours is not a violation of human rights.  Having asylum seekers applying at a US embassy in their own country is not a violation of human rights.  These are all policies that stopped a majority from coming here in the first place.  Dementia reversed all of them and now we have a disaster on our hands.


----------



## Batcat (Mar 15, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...





protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...


Holding manufactures accountable would mean they would be sued out of existence.


----------



## bendog (Mar 15, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...


I fail to see the humor.  (-:


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 15, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So what will this country look like when it's a minority supremacy?  Detroit?  My city of Cleveland?  Baltimore?  Venezuela?  Guatemala?
> 
> Yeah, those caged children.  You mean those same caged children the MSM published with pictures of them under DumBama?  So where is Dementia keeping those children?  In containers.  You know, those trailers you see on boats sitting in California harbors?  Oh, and don't try to see what's inside.  Dementia won't let anybody inside who doesn't work for the government.
> 
> People stopped coming here when Trump policies were in place because they knew it would be fruitless.  Stay in Mexico is not violating anybody's human rights.  Forcing Mexico to stop migrants from crossing their country to get to ours is not a violation of human rights.  Having asylum seekers applying at a US embassy in their own country is not a violation of human rights.  These are all policies that stopped a majority from coming here in the first place.  Dementia reversed all of them and now we have a disaster on our hands.


What a rant of white supremacy BS. That’s hilarious if it wasn’t so sad. One thing I give  Humpers credit for, is that everytime any links your motives to your fear of non whites, you don’t  deny it.

What you  should really fear, and many of you are, is being afraid of your ignorance . The 3 most dangerous cities to live in ? Ha ha…guess that’s where you think minority rules. Nope…white rules in these.
1. Anchorage, Alaska
2. Memphis, Tennessee Mississippi-Arkansas
3. Lubbock, Texas


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 15, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> What a rant of white supremacy BS. That’s hilarious if it wasn’t so sad. One thing I give  Humpers credit for, is that everytime any links your motives to your fear of non whites, you don’t  deny it.
> 
> What you  should really fear, and many of you are, is being afraid of your ignorance . The 3 most dangerous cities to live in ? Ha ha…guess that’s where you think minority rules. Nope…white rules in these.
> 1. Anchorage, Alaska
> ...



My source says differently.  According to them, the five most dangerous cities in the US for 2022 are


Detroit, MI
Memphis, TN
Birmingham, AL
Baltimore, MD
St. Louis, MO





__





						Most Dangerous Cities in the United States 2022
					





					worldpopulationreview.com


----------



## protectionist (Mar 15, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Holding manufactures accountable would mean they would be sued out of existence.


Which is ludicrous as, as many states are even dropping CCW license requirements.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 15, 2022)

bendog said:


> I fail to see the humor.  (-:


Neither do I, say why bring that up ?


----------



## JusticeHammer (Mar 15, 2022)

Biden is a joke period.


----------



## JusticeHammer (Mar 15, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Trump signed an anti-gun EO that banned bump stocks.  Now, I think that bump stocks are a joke and only a moron would use one, but this action by Trump set a precedent for future presidents to whittle away at gun rights via EOs


Which is illegal.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 15, 2022)

JusticeHammer said:


> Which is illegal.



Which is why I say Trump was more anti-gun than Obama even.


----------



## JusticeHammer (Mar 15, 2022)

JGalt said:


> Clinton did. Remember the AWB in '94?
> 
> Federal Assault Weapons Ban - Wikipedia


Clinton is a retarded commie, both of them.


----------



## Batcat (Mar 15, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Which is ludicrous as, as many states are even dropping CCW license requirements.


True. Ohio just did that.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 15, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Which is why I say Trump was more anti-gun than Obama even.


Few people would agree with that.  Trump carries a pistol and is a lifelong member of NRA.


----------



## Batcat (Mar 16, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Few people would agree with that.  Trump carries a pistol and is a lifelong member of NRA.


I doubt that Obama has ever fired a pistol.

There is even some question if he ever fired a shotgun.









						White House Doctored Photo of Obama Shooting a Shotgun? - The Truth About Guns
					

&#9664Previous Post Next Post▶ The truth is out there! To no one’s surprise, there’s speculation bubbling through the Intertubes that the photo the White House released showing President Obama actually firing a shotgun has been . . . wait for it . . . digitally enhanced. As in altered...




					www.thetruthaboutguns.com


----------



## 22lcidw (Mar 16, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Wow. Biden is rewriting Trumps agenda that violated human rights and caged children. Followed by  the old dementia fear mongering. Not very impressive when Trump couldn‘t read  three syllable words. Of course, not being able to read never stopped Trump or his supporter Humpers from making up shit.
> 
> 
> Boy, you’re sure vacillating off the 3 million claim with each rebuttal. White supremacy is hard to rationalize isn’t it ?


Separate the nation into a few smaller countries. Then go from there.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 16, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Which is ludicrous as, as many states are even dropping CCW license requirements.



As Batcat mentioned they just did that here, and as pro-gun as I am I'm against it.  I was really shocked our RINO governor signed the bill.


----------



## Flash (Mar 16, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> As Batcat mentioned they just did that here, and as pro-gun as I am I'm against it.  I was really shocked our RINO governor signed the bill.


To me the crime should be what is done with the gun, never a crime for keeping and bearing the gun.

You should move here to Florida.  The filthy tourist lobby pays our lawmakers of both parties well and they don't want Constitutional carry.  They are afraid Constitutional carry will scare away a couple of tourists.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 16, 2022)

Flash said:


> To me the crime should be what is done with the gun, never a crime for keeping and bearing the gun.
> 
> You should move here to Florida.  The filthy tourist lobby pays our lawmakers of both parties well and they don't want Constitutional carry.  They are afraid Constitutional carry will scare away a couple of tourists.



My issue is with the people that never shot a gun before, or otherwise treat it like a toy like I've seen a couple of times at the range.  Those people scare me.  If somebody wants to be totally careless with a firearm in their own home, that's their business.  When it comes to irresponsible people carrying around me in public, that's mine.  

I think anytime you have to put time and energy into something you will take it much more seriously than people who don't.  I feel that way with CCW licenses, government housing, voting in person, all of it.  Taking away the licenses removes the value of carrying out in public.  

I'm not a leftist so I don't have a crystal ball,  so only time will tell if this is a good idea or not for our state.


----------



## Flash (Mar 16, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> My issue is with the people that never shot a gun before, or otherwise treat it like a toy like I've seen a couple of times at the range.  Those people scare me.  If somebody wants to be totally careless with a firearm in their own home, that's their business.  When it comes to irresponsible people carrying around me in public, that's mine.
> 
> I think anytime you have to put time and energy into something you will take it much more seriously than people who don't.  I feel that way with CCW licenses, government housing, voting in person, all of it.  Taking away the licenses removes the value of carrying out in public.
> 
> I'm not a leftist so I don't have a crystal ball,  so only time will tell if this is a good idea or not for our state.


You have some good points Ray (as usual).

As a range officer and firearms instructor believe me when I tell you that you are absolutely correct in that there are some people that simply should never touch a gun.  I see it all the time.

I want Constitutional carry because it is an affirmation of the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

To me bad guys are going to do bad things with guns no matter what the law.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 18, 2022)

Batcat said:


> I doubt that Obama has ever fired a pistol.
> 
> There is even some question if he ever fired a shotgun.
> 
> ...


If Obama never had a swollen face, then this photo is a fake. Anybody firing a shotgun with a spot weld (as in this photo) would come out of it with a nasty, swollen face for a few days.  Spot welds are for rifles, which have a much smaller charge than a shotgun.

The photo also show cluelessness about guns, by Obama and the person setting up the photo.  Not surprising, with gun-clueless leftists.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 18, 2022)

Flash said:


> To me the crime should be what is done with the gun, never a crime for keeping and bearing the gun.
> 
> You should move here to Florida.  The filthy tourist lobby pays our lawmakers of both parties well and they don't want Constitutional carry.  They are afraid Constitutional carry will scare away a couple of tourists.


What do you mean by "Constitutional carry" ?  You mean OPEN carry (not concealed) ?



CCW is legal in Florida. I have the license myself.


----------



## Batcat (Mar 18, 2022)

protectionist said:


> If Obama never had a swollen face, then this photo is a fake. Anybody firing a shotgun with a spot weld (as in this photo) would come out of it with a nasty, swollen face for a few days.  Spot welds are for rifles, which have a much smaller charge than a shotgun.
> 
> The photo also show cluelessness about guns, by Obama and the person setting up the photo.  Not surprising, with gun-clueless leftists.


Interesting. I am more of a handgun shooter than a rifle or shotgun shooter. I have fired shotguns in the past and own a 12 gauge double barrel coach gun, but I don’t know if I ever fired one with a spot weld or not.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 18, 2022)

protectionist said:


> What do you mean by "Constitutional carry" ?  You mean OPEN carry (not concealed) ?
> 
> 
> 
> CCW is legal in Florida. I have the license myself.



Constitutional carry is being able to conceal carry without a permit.


----------



## Flash (Mar 18, 2022)

protectionist said:


> What do you mean by "Constitutional carry" ?  You mean OPEN carry (not concealed) ?
> 
> 
> 
> CCW is legal in Florida. I have the license myself.


Constitutional carry means you can carry both open and concealed without a license.

Here in Florida that would mean you wouldn't have get the license for concealed and that we would have open carry, which we don't have now because of the filthy tourist lobby that own politicians of both parties.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 18, 2022)

Flash said:


> Constitutional carry means you can carry both open and concealed without a license.
> 
> Here in Florida that would mean you wouldn't have get the license for concealed and that we would have open carry, which we don't have now because of the filthy tourist lobby that own politicians of both parties.



I don't know if that's the reason.  We just passed our constitutional carry here in Ohio and as a CCW holder and gun advocate, I'm against the new law.  In fact my friends and family who also have CCW's are against it as well. 

It's just a divided issue is all.  I'd rather live in Florida with the laws they have than live in one of these commie states with the laws they have any day of the week.


----------



## 52ndStreet (Mar 18, 2022)

This from a President  who now wants to ship assault rifles to the Ukraine. What President would want to demilitarize American citizens, who have a right to bear arms, guaranteed by the U.S. constitution. Absurd.! Gun Grabbers should all move to the Ukraine and see what the Russians would do to them.


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 18, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Trump signed an anti-gun EO that banned bump stocks.  Now, I think that bump stocks are a joke and only a moron would use one, but this action by Trump set a precedent for future presidents to whittle away at gun rights via EOs



It's sad to say it but Republican presidents have done more to harm gun rights than have the left.


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 18, 2022)

gipper said:


> Agreed, to a point. I think we need to look at the bigger picture. Our failing culture. I suspect our culture breeds bad guys. When millions of Americans are born poor without the chance of improving their position, they tend to act up.
> 
> Being poor in America is an awful existence, that few can break through. We have too much dysfunction.  Poverty, crime, failing schools, illiteracy illegitimacy, gangs, lack of good jobs, outrageous income inequality, unjust legal system targeting the poor and minorities, prison industrial complex, etc.
> 
> I also suspect all this dysfunction is purposeful, by the establishment. It helps create division.  Our criminal government spends trillions on the military industry complex, imperialism, corporate welfare, and tax benefits for the ultra rich and big corporations. If all this money was directed on helping Americans improve their lives, things might be different.



Let me get this straight; you're saying that poverty exists because of crime and crime exists because of poverty.  So, in your mind, there's no solution at all and we just have to live with it?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 18, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> It's sad to say it but Republican presidents have done more to harm gun rights than have the left.



How so?


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 18, 2022)

Missourian said:


> True... and I agree... but I believe the judicial overturned that ban as unconstitutional.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The three judge panel overturned the ban but the en banc court upheld the ban.









						En Banc Sixth Circuit Splits 8-8 Over Bump Stock Ban
					

The district court decision upholding the ATF's conclusion that bump stocks constitute unlawful "machine guns" is upheld by an equally divided court.




					reason.com


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 18, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You should have read his stance on guns on his website when he was running for prez.  It went much further than that.
> 
> Of course they'd love to see people suing gun sellers and manufacturers.  They know it would close them all down making it impossible to buy a gun.  It's likely nobody would win a claim, but the litigation costs would drive them out of business.  It's a commie way to get around the Constitution, the document they hate so much.



Remington caved for 73 million dollars.  The precedent to ignore the law as enacted in FOPA 1986 has been set.  The manufacture of guns in America for civilian use will be ended within a few years.  Get 'em while you can or  understand that what you've got may very likely be all you'll ever get.









						Remington Paying $73 Million To Sandy Hook Victims’ Families In Lawsuit Settlement
					

A Remington-produced gun was used in the 2012 massacre.




					www.forbes.com


----------



## protectionist (Mar 18, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Remington caved for 73 million dollars.  The precedent to ignore the law as enacted in FOPA 1986 has been set.  The manufacture of guns in America for civilian use will be ended within a few years.  Get 'em while you can or  understand that what you've got may very likely be all you'll ever get.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Surprising they didnt appeal this to the Supreme Court.


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 18, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> How so?


As I was looking for the details of the anti-gun Republican presidents, I found the following comment by someone with the screen name Fred Frendly who does a great job of laying out all the points I was working on putting into words:

*Fred Frendly September 8, 2015 At 13:29:*​_Nixon hated guns and supported banning handguns outright, but never implemented any gun control because Vietnam and Watergate kept him too busy. Reagan signed the FOPA bill in 86, which ostensibly helped gun owners but banned a whole class of firearms. He also made the infamous AK47 speech in 89. He went on to champion Clintons AWB in 93. Bush the Elder in 1989 said “Our problem has been that, while fully automatic AK47s are banned in this country, semiautomatic ones present another whole set of issues. ATF has decided to ban temporarily the importation of more than 110,000 semiautomatic rifles, pending a ruling on whether such guns are suited to sporting purposes.” Bush I also tore up his NRA card in 1995. His son GW Bush WOULD have signed the sunsetting AWB but it never made it out of Congress. He did however sign the Patriot Act which took more privacy and liberty away than any gun control act could. Republicans have their share of anti gun actions and cannot be automatically trusted to be pro RKBA because of a large R next to their name._​​








						Question of the Day: Are You a Single Issue Voter? - The Truth About Guns
					

&#9664Previous Post Next Post▶ Our friend’s at the UK’s Telegraph surveyed the GOP’s seventeen (so far) presidential candidates, asking who owns firearms and how many. Three took the discreet approach, declining to disclose their inventory (assuming they have one). Carly Florina is gunless, but...




					www.thetruthaboutguns.com
				




One might argue that only Reagan actually signed a gun control bill, every Republican president in my lifetime, Eisenhower to Trump, has voiced anti-gun opinions - though Trump converted to pro-gun when running for office.  Their support for gun control did more damage than the actual bills passed by Democrats because they empower the gun controllers and the Democrats.  They give aid and comfort to the enemies of the right to keep and bear arms.  

Their support for gun control is effectively used in gun control advertisements to convince those without strong, knowledge-based stances on gun control that it's OK to support limited gun control.


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 18, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Surprising they didnt appeal this to the Supreme Court.


Yes it is; they signed their own death warrant.  But they're owned now by a leftist investment company and not by actual sportsmen, let alone by actual gun rights advocates.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 18, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> The three judge panel overturned the ban but the en banc court upheld the ban.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've been shooting guns for about 40 years now, and until the Vegas shooting, I never heard of bump stocks.  In fact many of my friends are shooters too and the same for them.  Sometimes you have to throw them a bone once in a while to make most of the people happy.


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 19, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> For the most part they do not want them.  The higher the capacity the more prone they are to jam.  Fixing a jam takes far longer that swapping magazines.


Interesting.  You claim to know more than all of the weapons experts in the US Armed Forces.  Have you shared your brilliance with them so they can save more lives by carrying fewer bullets into combat?


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 19, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Also my experiences point to drug usage as the biggest problem.  Better paying jobs often require employees to submit to random drug screenings.  Many who are not advancing in life choose dope over financial security.  It's a self-inflicted wound.


I asked ourlocal Walmart manager about why the shelves are being stocked during peak shopping times instead of at night.  His response was that they can't find anyone to work at night to stock.  He said they get plenty of applicants but almost none of the applicants they get for any job can pass the drug screening.


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 19, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Did I say he banned guns?   No I did not.
> 
> But he did sign an EO banning an accessory for guns.   If they can do it for one accessory, they can do it for more.


The problem with Trump's order is that he felt like he could ban something simply by EO.  And the ATF ruled it was a machine gun, so, legally it is a gun that he banned.

Our constitution requires a specific process for enacting Federal laws and there's no process by which the Executive can use an EO to create a regulation or law.  That power is only in the hands of Congress with Executive approval.

Once we accept that the government can do any one thing outside of the Constitution then we accept that they can do anything they choose outside of the Constitution.  When Trump and the ATF agreed on terms to ban a product without a law passed by Congress they showed that they did not feel at all bound by the Constitution.

In almost all cases of bad laws and unconstitutional laws, it's not the single law that is so bad, it's the violation of the Constitution and the precedent of being OK to violate the Constitution which is the most significant harm.


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 19, 2022)

Abatis said:


> The above is bullshit; "fake news" and "alternate facts" . . .
> 
> For a decade (2008-2017) ATF reviewed many bumpstock designs (including ones _exactly_ like those used in the Las Vegas shooting) and consistently ruled they do not change a semi-auto into a machine gun.
> 
> ...


The President cannot give to the DOJ the authority to redefine a machine gun when the definition was defined by law - real law as in passed by both houses and signed by the President.

Where did Congress order the ATF to review the definition?  Congress has no authority to order the ATF to do anything but you won't find anything where Congress made such an order.  For Congress to make such an order would mean that both houses voted on such an order and passed it.  For the order to be an order and not a request would then require the order to be written as a law and not just a request of Congress and then for the President to sign the law.


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 19, 2022)

g5000 said:


> Then why is the NRA opposing Biden's attempts to stop illegal gun trafficking?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What a lie.  Biden is doing nothing at all to stop illegal gun trafficking.  His efforts are very clearly, very explicitly, aimed at reducing legal gun purchases and have no intended effect on illegal purchases.


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 19, 2022)

Abatis said:


> In the _lower_ federal circuit courts dominated by liberals, by employing a scheme that they invented (the "two-step inquiry") for the singular purpose of ignoring and dismissing SCOTUS so unconstitutional laws could be sustained.
> 
> That situation will not be suffered for much longer, see my previous post.
> 
> ...


There's only one legitimate level of scrutiny for constitutional challenges: absolute scrutiny.  Either a thing violates the Constitution or it does not.  

Given limited time and resources, a court might not choose to hear a case but if they do hear the case then they do not have constitutional authority to ignore or create exceptions to the Constitution.


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 19, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> The NRA is on record not giving a sht about Trumps “ ban “.
> 
> Seriously, you can’t survive with a 10 round mag pistol  ? You aren’t going to carry an assault weapon around with you. Thats the main advantage of an assault rifle….light carry, low recoil and firepower. Do you really think you’re going to be attacked  by a herd of wild pigs in heat ? I’m assuming you live in a residential or business area and you want to use a weapon with a 600 yard killing range ? That’s ridiculous. Get a permit, a couple of 20 gauge shotguns that everyone in your family can shoot and carry firearms you’ll always have with you…..with a permit. Hi cap 9 mm way over rated for anyone but a law Enforcement. They’re getting paid to face down multiple threats.


I have a permit in my pocket all the time:









						Pocket Constitution of the United States (English)
					

52-page pocket Constitution of the United States (including The Bill of Rights and Amendments 11-27) & Declaration of Independence. Dimensions: 3.25″ X 6.5″.




					nccs.net
				




What would be the purpose and source of this other permit you keep suggesting we need to have?

We've had these discussions over and over again, on this site and others, where there are posted dozens, but could easily be hundreds or thousands, of cases where multiple attackers are stopped by someone using standard (30-round) capacity AR magazines.

We've also posted many times examples of where even trained police, at very close range, miss with most shots when engaged in a shootout because shooting someone who shoots back at you is not as simple as shooting a deer during hunting season or a paper target.

And I do carry an AR-15 pistol with me, in my truck, whenever I leave home - without fail.  I don't carry it inside the store but the idea that people just won't carry one is wrong.  I also carry a .40 S&W pistol, 15+1 rounds and two spare mags on my person and more mags in the truck.

Before someone starts in with how "scared" I must be to carry such firepower, they'd be wrong.  Because I don't go anywhere that I expect trouble, but I stay prepared for trouble if it should come unexpectedly, I have no need to be afraid.  I seldom, if ever, even think about the weapons I carry except to practice at appropriate times and places so I can engage those weapons, if needed, without having to think about them.


----------



## gipper (Mar 19, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Let me get this straight; you're saying that poverty exists because of crime and crime exists because of poverty.  So, in your mind, there's no solution at all and we just have to live with it?


No.


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 19, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Wrong. States and countries that have stricker gun laws have in average lower gun  crime rates. The lone exceptions are states like Maine where there are more trees then people per acre.



Your comment about lower gun crime rates actually is completely false.  Illinois is somewhere in the middle of gun crimes per 100K population on average but Chicago is among the highest in the nation.  Illinois has less than then national average of gun crimes but Chicago has nearly double the national average of gun crimes.  Wyoming has far less than half of Illinois gun crimes per 100K but has far more liberal gun laws than does Illinois.

Most states have wide variations between crime rates of the state overall and the crime rate in their metropolitan areas.  In many cases, Illinois for example, the low-crime rural areas mask the evil in the high-crime cities.  Smaller states with high-crime cities have higher overall crime stats because they have far lower rural populations to mask the numbers from the cities.

There are a lot of other reasons why states have differing gun crime rates and the number of guns or the gun laws.  It has far more to do with demographics, culture, or many other reasons but there is absolutely no provable causation tied to gun laws and number of guns.


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 19, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Blues ALWAYS had guns. It’s a fallacy thinking they didn’t. The biggest difference without question is, the blue house hold might have 5  firearms and the red will have 15.


So what is the correlation or causation between 15 guns and 5 guns in the home to gun crime rates?  I only have two hands so, at the very best, I can use two guns at a time.


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 19, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> It’s called the free market. Are you advocating its elimination ?


I know that you, as do all Democrats, love slavery and genocide but how about we advocate to end slavery and genocide and let the mostly-free market work within that framework?


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 19, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Banning bump stocks doesn't limit the 2nd Amendment.
> 
> Now, redefining words and giving them fake definitions, is infringing on our 2A rights.


Sure it does.  Any time the government exceeds constitutional authority it empowers them to do so again.  And, according to the government, and the court, the bump stock is a machine gun.  The precedent is that the government can restrict guns at will and by executive order.  That violates the 2nd Amendment.

And even if you look at bump stocks outside of guns, there is no enumerated power that allows the government to ban anything by executive order without a law passed by Congress.


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 19, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> so you are anti-free market?


American free markets are for Americans doing business in America with American products made from American components.

Why would we give equal access to our markets to companies, products, or materials from another nation when those nations don't have the same taxes, regulations, environmental requirements, or other restrictions that our companies have?


----------



## Abatis (Mar 19, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> The President cannot give to the DOJ the authority to redefine a machine gun when the definition was defined by law - real law as in passed by both houses and signed by the President.



I agree.  The primary thrust of my post was simply to rebut what I quoted; the idea that "_Trump signed an anti-gun EO that banned bump stocks_" and "_this action by Trump set a precedent for future presidents to whittle away at gun rights via EOs_". Nowhere in my post -- directed to explain the actual history and regulatory and legal background -- did I endorse or support the claim of power to do what was done.

If any President set any precedent, was Obama's EO-13637, (2013) that established that Presidents can authorize agencies to  interpret law to form regulations on arms, including review of definitions.

For bumpstocks, ATF didn't *redefine* machinegun, they read *the definition in law, 26 U.S.C. 5845(b)* . . .

“The term “machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.”​
and decided that external accessories that facilitate bump-fire, meet the basic criteria in the law of a machinegun:

"ATF has now determined, based on its interpretation of the relevant statutory language, that these bump-stock-type devices, which harness recoil energy in conjunction with the shooter's maintenance of pressure, turn legal semiautomatic firearms into machineguns. Specifically, ATF has determined that these devices initiate an “automatic[]” firing cycle sequence “by a single function of the trigger” because the device is the primary impetus for a firing sequence that fires more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger."​​

			https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2018/03/29/2018-06292/bump-stock-type-devices
		

I'm not saying any of that is legally correct, just that it is the law . . .  I don't think there is *any* dispute that ATF *is *redefining frame and receiver with the new regulations on "homemade" guns / 80% receivers . . .



woodwork201 said:


> Where did Congress order the ATF to review the definition?  Congress has no authority to order the ATF to do anything but you won't find anything where Congress made such an order.



I should have said "initiated".  ATF responded to *a request by some Congress members for ATF to reevaluate the agency's previous determinations on bumpstocks*.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 19, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> I asked ourlocal Walmart manager about why the shelves are being stocked during peak shopping times instead of at night.  His response was that they can't find anyone to work at night to stock.  He said they get plenty of applicants but almost none of the applicants they get for any job can pass the drug screening.



That's going on all across the country.  Before I retired I used to be a local truck driver and businesses all sang the same song; everybody looking for straight workers.  Some of the jobs paid very well for non-skilled labor and others were willing to pay to make you skilled labor, but dope trumps it all.

We either need to find a way to address the problem or make drug screening for employment illegal, at least for those not intoxicated on the job.  The latter will be nearly impossible since it's insurance companies that push this crap and it's insurance companies that finance political campaigns.

I'm not one of those people who cry that big business runs our country, but between seat belt laws,national BA levels for drunk driving, and drug screenings for employees, it sure seems like they are running a major part of the show.


----------



## 2aguy (Mar 19, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> Rural?
> 
> No Blacks so I guess you're just shooting one another.
> 
> ...




Wrong, you doofus....

The way you guys lie is to use the word "acquaintance," as a way to lie and say this means wife, girlfriend and other family member....when in truth, it simply means the gang members who shot the other gang member knew the gang member he shot.....you lying piece of crap.....

Explain this.....

Over  27 years,  from 1993  to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

*Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.*


----------



## 2aguy (Mar 19, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Silly you. You’re truly astonished that the more people you have, the more shootings there will be. Maybe the math of rates keeps you from posting the truth. The most dangerous places to live, are mostly in gop controlled cities and states.
> Here  they are !
> Most dangerous states in America for 2021:​
> New Mexico (Photos)
> ...




you moron...explain this.....

Over  27 years,  from 1993  to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

*Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.*


*Then this...the truth...*

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-gun-laws-tend-to-have-the-fewest-gun-deaths/

In any case, we were curious to see what would happen if suicides were removed from the totals. After all, rural areas (which may have less-restrictive gun laws) have a lot of suicides of older single men who become lonely. So we ran the numbers — and in some cases, it made a huge difference.
Alaska, ranked 50th on the National Journal list, moved up to 25th place. Utah, 31st on the list, jumped to 8th place. Hawaii remains in 1st place, but the top six now include Vermont, New Hampshire, South Dakota, Iowa and Maine. Indeed, half of the 10 states with the lowest gun-death rates turn out to be states with less-restrictive gun laws.
Meanwhile, Maryland — a more urban state — fell from 15th place to 45th, even though it has very tough gun laws. Illinois dropped from 11th place to 38th, and New York fell from 3rd to 15th.

******************
Do Strict Firearm Laws Give States Lower Gun Death Rates?

Once you get past those six states, the hypothesis that low gun death rates go hand in hand with strict gun control starts to break down. New Hampshire, with a gun death rate just a little higher than New Jersey's, has permissive gun policies. Likewise Minnesota, Washington, Vermont, Wisconsin, and South Dakota, all of which have gun death rates of 10 or less per 100,000. New Hampshire and Minnesota have lower rates than California, Illinois, the District of Columbia, and Maryland, all of which have substantially stricter gun rules.
At the other end of the list, Alaska, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas, and Wyoming have both permissive gun policies and high gun death rates, ranging from around 17 to nearly 20 per 100,000. But of these six states, only Louisiana has a very high gun murder rate (based on 2010 data). The rate in Mississippi is fairly high but still lower than in D.C. or Maryland, which have much stricter gun laws. Alaska, Wyoming, Alabama, and Arkansas have lower gun murder rates than California, which has more gun restrictions.
Although its overall analysis looks at all gun-related deaths, _National Journal_ (after some prodding, judging from the note in italics) focuses on gun homicides in charts that compare states based on three policies: whether they impose a duty to retreat, whether they require background checks for all gun sales, and whether they issue carry permits to anyone who meets a short list of objective criteria. Excluding suicides makes sense for at least two of those comparisons, since you would not expect the rules for self-defense or for carrying guns in public to affect suicide rates. Background checks conceivably could, since among other things they are supposed to prevent gun purchases by people who were forcibly subjected to psychiatric treatment because they were deemed a threat to themselves.
According to the first chart, the average rate of gun-related homicides in states with "some form of 'stand your ground' law" in 2013 was 4.23 per 100,000, compared to 3.08 in the other states. (Oddly, Arkansas is included in the former category, although its "stand your ground" law was not enacted until this year.) States that did not require background checks for private sales also had a higher average gun homicide rate: 4.02 per 100,000, compared to 3.41 for the other states. But the average rates were the same (3.78 per 100,000) regardless of whether states had discretionary or "must issue" carry permit policies, which is consistent with the observation that permit holders rarely commit violent crimes.
Some states were excluded from these analyses, and the reason is revealing. The fine print at the bottom of the charts says "Alaska, Idaho, Maine, Montana, New Hampshire, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont, and Wyoming _had too few homicides_ in 2013 to calculate a reliable rate" (emphasis added). These are all states with permissive gun laws, and three of them are among the seven states with the highest overall gun death rates, which highlights the importance of distinguishing between suicides and homicides. Had _National Journal_'s main analysis excluded suicides, some of the states with few gun controls, including Alaska and Wyoming, would have looked much safer. 
"The states with the most gun laws see the fewest gun-related deaths," say the headline and subhead over the _National Journal_ post, "but there's still little appetite to talk about more restrictions." The implication is that the data prove a cause-and-effect relationship. But the question of whether stricter gun control policies _cause _lower gun death rates cannot be addressed by this sort of static analysis. Gun laws obviously are not the only way in which Alaska, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas, and Wyoming differ from Hawaii, Massachusetts, New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island, and New Jersey. Furthermore, while the latter states have both low suicide and low homicide rates, the former states (with the notable exception of Louisiana) are distinguished mainly by high suicide rates.


****************

The Dishonest Gun-Control Debate, by Kevin D. Williamson, National Review


Take this, for example, from ThinkProgress’s Zack Beauchamp, with whom I had a discussion about the issue on Wednesday evening: “STUDY: States with loose gun laws have higher rates of gun violence.” The claim sounds like an entirely straightforward one. In English, it means that there is more gun violence in states with relatively liberal gun laws.

 But that is of course not at all what it means.

*In order to reach that conclusion, the authors of the study were obliged to insert a supplementary measure of “gun violence,” that being the “crime-gun export rate.” If a gun legally sold in Indiana ends up someday being used in a crime in Chicago, then that is counted as an incidence of gun violence in Indiana, even though it is no such thing. *


This is a fairly nakedly political attempt to manipulate statistics in such a way as to attribute some portion of Chicago’s horrific crime epidemic to peaceable neighboring communities.


 And even if we took the “gun-crime export rate” to be a meaningful metric, we would need to consider the fact that it accounts only for those guns sold legally. Of course states that do not have many legal gun sales do not generate a lot of records for “gun-crime exports.” It is probable that lots of guns sold in Illinois end up being used in crimes in Indiana; the difference is, those guns are sold on the black market, and so do not show up in the records. The choice of metrics is just another way to put a thumb on the scale.

Read more at: The Dishonest Gun-Control Debate | National Review


----------



## 2aguy (Mar 19, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Sure,  that‘s what makes most of the ten most dangerous cities under Republican control. Hilarious. You guys just make up shit. Most crime are by whites. 80% of murders were white on white. Keep making up shit. Fix News lives it.




You just lied about that....the most dangerous cities in this country are under democrat control...you asshole...

*Here is a simple chart showing the political party of the mayor for the 30 cities with the highest murder rates in 2018. Twenty-eight of those cities are controlled by Democrats, and two are non-partisan. But while the two cities in North Carolina have non-partisan elections, both Goldboro and Salisbury tend to vote for Democrats.*


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 19, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> American free markets are for Americans doing business in America with American products made from American components.
> 
> Why would we give equal access to our markets to companies, products, or materials from another nation when those nations don't have the same taxes, regulations, environmental requirements, or other restrictions that our companies have?



If the government is restricting me from buying or punishing me from buying something not made in America, we do not have a free market.


----------



## Abatis (Mar 19, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> There's only one legitimate level of scrutiny for constitutional challenges: absolute scrutiny.  Either a thing violates the Constitution or it does not.



In current SCOTUS operations, there are three levels of scrutiny,  rational basis, intermediate scrutiny and strict scrutiny.  

For the RKBA, of all the reasons for the possession and use of a firearm that can be argued to be constitutionally protected, only "self defense" has been deemed a fundamental right thus _arguably_ owed strict scrutiny.  That is not a formal dictate of the Court, it has not set any rules for standard of scrutiny.

I do expect this situation to change with the _NYSRPA_ decision due soon.  I expect SCOTUS to invalidate the process developed and used in the lower federal courts, the "two-step inquiry".  I expect the Court will order the lower courts to use, "text, informed by history and tradition" as endorsed by Justice Thomas and explained by Justice Kavanaugh in his dissent in _Heller II_.  That would eliminate the subjectiveness and imprecision of the current levels of scrutiny applied to the RKBA/2ndA.



woodwork201 said:


> Given limited time and resources, a court might not choose to hear a case but if they do hear the case then they do not have constitutional authority to ignore or create exceptions to the Constitution.



Well, there is a lot of "play in the joints" in the current application of scrutiny in gun cases.  We can wish it was different but it is what it is, especially when it comes to applying the 2ndA to states under the 14th . . .  It just isn't so cut and dry because states do possess some amount of power to set gun policy and that line needs to be established, where federal ability to dictate to states is rebuffed.  As an example, the states have always possessed the power to establish the rules for carriage of arms; for that reason there will not be any "right to carry cncealed" coming from SCOTUS.  I expect them to enforce a right to posses arms for self defense but the states will still possess the power to establish the manner of carry -- including requiring a permit / license for concealed carry.

The application and enforcement of the 2ndA is in its infancy; it was first waylayed / sidetracked by the "collective right" holdings in the lower federal courts begining in 1942.  In those holdings the "individual right" was virtually extinguished for 66 years until _Heller_ set it straight.  The 2ndA was only incorporated in 2010 in _McDonald_, and now, trying to apply the 2ndA to states, when it isn't even fully established how it is applied federally, is where the "play in the joints" comes from. The 2ndA's enforcement is quite literally behind every other right's enforcement by 75 years . . .


----------



## Flash (Mar 19, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> As I was looking for the details of the anti-gun Republican presidents, I found the following comment by someone with the screen name Fred Frendly who does a great job of laying out all the points I was working on putting into words:
> 
> *Fred Frendly September 8, 2015 At 13:29:*​_Nixon hated guns and supported banning handguns outright, but never implemented any gun control because Vietnam and Watergate kept him too busy. Reagan signed the FOPA bill in 86, which ostensibly helped gun owners but banned a whole class of firearms. He also made the infamous AK47 speech in 89. He went on to champion Clintons AWB in 93. Bush the Elder in 1989 said “Our problem has been that, while fully automatic AK47s are banned in this country, semiautomatic ones present another whole set of issues. ATF has decided to ban temporarily the importation of more than 110,000 semiautomatic rifles, pending a ruling on whether such guns are suited to sporting purposes.” Bush I also tore up his NRA card in 1995. His son GW Bush WOULD have signed the sunsetting AWB but it never made it out of Congress. He did however sign the Patriot Act which took more privacy and liberty away than any gun control act could. Republicans have their share of anti gun actions and cannot be automatically trusted to be pro RKBA because of a large R next to their name._​​
> 
> ...


It would be nice if we had a Republican President that actually RESTORED gun rights.  Instead, as your text said, the Republicans have snuck in some gun control shit.

I am still pissed at Reagan for letting the Hughes Amendment go through.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Mar 19, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Sure it does.  Any time the government exceeds constitutional authority it empowers them to do so again.  And, according to the government, and the court, the bump stock is a machine gun.  The precedent is that the government can restrict guns at will and by executive order.  That violates the 2nd Amendment.
> 
> And even if you look at bump stocks outside of guns, there is no enumerated power that allows the government to ban anything by executive order without a law passed by Congress.


Right, but that doesn't violate the 2nd Amendment.  It violated Article 2 and the 5th Amendment.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 20, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> I know that you, as do all Democrats, love slavery and genocide but how about we advocate to end slavery and genocide and let the mostly-free market work within that framework?


I’ll take that as a non response to a real question.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 20, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> So what is the correlation or causation between 15 guns and 5 guns in the home to gun crime rates?  I only have two hands so, at the very best, I can use two guns at a time.


Because nearly all firearms in the hands of criminals, the underaged and mentally impaired  started out as a LEGAL SALE from an FFL dealer, means that gunaholics who stock pile guns like can goods. are the main conduit for crimInals , underaged and mentally impaired getting firearms. . Gunaholics hand firearms around like candy. They bear no responsibility in their aiding and abetting the transfer of firearms to any breathing humanoid.

On the southern boarder where firearms are literally payment for illegal drugs, the gunaholics of the United States lend a hand in the illicit drug trade.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 20, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> I have a permit in my pocket all the time:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


All bull crap. The policeman has a need in law enforcement for high cap pistols and full autos, just like the military does in some situations. The average  citizen does not.   To make such an analogy is idiotic.

 I am a permitted gun owner. The success in personal self defense rests in how quickly you can get a firearm of moderate capacity into action at close range without endangering innocent by standers. I guarantee, I can do that much much more quickly with a  five shot snubby or 6 round  compact Glock both of which I am much more likely to carry then your stupid, over power .40 cal with 15 rounds or even a more ridiculous AR15 platform  rifle… 

In the vast majority of situations, you would lose if the attacked came at you with such small concealable and quick into action firearms. The vast majority of self defense situations are adjudicated in two rounds. Having a 15 round .40 cal for normal  self defense is rediculous. I’m ALWAYS armed, you aren’t. I can get mine into action before you can make the decision to remove a safety or rack a slide. You don’t know WTF you are talking about.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 20, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Because nearly all firearms in the hands of criminals, the underaged and mentally impaired  started out as a LEGAL SALE from an FFL dealer, means that gunaholics who stock pile guns like can goods. are the main conduit for crimInals , underaged and mentally impaired getting firearms. . Gunaholics hand firearms around like candy. They bear no responsibility in their aiding and abetting the transfer of firearms to any breathing humanoid.
> 
> On the southern boarder where firearms are literally payment for illegal drugs, the gunaholics of the United States lend a hand in the illicit drug trade.



It has nothing to do with people who have a lot of firearms.  According to the ATF, most of the guns used illegally were purchased by straw buyers.  People get friends or family to buy guns for them and they then get used in criminal activities.  So how could we stop that?  We place more emphasis on the straw buyers with much higher penalties.  

Others get licenses to sell guns which they are under strict scrutiny.  However the government doesn't look over their shoulders enough.  What they do is sell guns to those that cannot otherwise buy a firearm at any local retailer.  Of course they charge an arm and a leg for it, but the same applies:  you go after those illegal gun dealers and have harsh penalties for any sales to people they knew were not allowed to own a firearm.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 20, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> If the government is restricting me from buying or punishing me from buying something not made in America, we do not have a free market.


Gee. The free enterprise system does that all time. Buy three  get one free. The guy who only buys two is being punished. The gov is in the business of promoting good behavior. Just because the right doesn’t recognize good behavior….


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 20, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Gee. The free enterprise system does that all time. Buy three get one free. The guy who only buys two is being punished.



Yes, the free enterprise system does that all time, which they should as that is their purpose.

That is not the purpose of the Govt.   



Dagosa said:


> The gov is in the business of promoting good behavior. Just because the right doesn’t recognize good behavior….



No, that is not the business of the government in a free society.   If I am not harming anyone else it is not the government's business


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It has nothing to do with people who have a lot of firearms.  According to the ATF, most of the guns used illegally were purchased by straw buyers.  People get friends or family to buy guns for them and they then get used in criminal activities.  So how could we stop that?  We place more emphasis on the straw buyers with much higher penalties.
> 
> Others get licenses to sell guns which they are under strict scrutiny.  However the government doesn't look over their shoulders enough.  What they do is sell guns to those that cannot otherwise buy a firearm at any local retailer.  Of course they charge an arm and a leg for it, but the same applies:  you go after those illegal gun dealers and have harsh penalties for any sales to people they knew were not allowed to own a firearm.


Most certainly does. The gun hoarder is right in the middle of private sales. Private sales are the conduit for illegal possession.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 20, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> That is not the purpose of the Govt.


Most certainly is. They stop speeders, arrest criminals and fine fraud. They are in the business of promoting good behavior. Gee, I thought that was obvious ! You‘re telling us the govt should not do the job of law enforcement. The one of the main idea of arresting, tying and jailing people is to scare the bee geezus out of others to behave themselves.

Rewarding people for buying an electric car is no different. They are trying to elicit good  behavior in a different way by not just scaring the shit out of them.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> People get friends or family to buy guns for them and they then get used in criminal activities. So how could we stop that?


Easy. We do it for full auto weapons. We can do it for all firearms….regulate. Maybe you ever knew that the govt successfully regulates some firearms that are seldom used by criminals, mentally deranged and underaged. How did that escape you ?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 20, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Most certainly does. The gun hoarder is right in the middle of private sales. Private sales are the conduit for illegal possession.



Okay.......fine........now what do you do about it?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 20, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Easy. We do it for full auto weapons. We can do it for all firearms….regulate. Maybe you ever knew that the govt successfully regulates some firearms that are seldom used by criminals, mentally deranged and underaged. How did that escape you ?



Regulate how?  Firearms are the most regulated thing in this country.  Apparently regulations don't work, especially when the regulations affect everybody instead of the culprits.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Regulate how?  Firearms are the most regulated thing in this country.  Apparently regulations don't work, especially when the regulations affect everybody instead of the culprits.


Guess you don’t know much about federal vs state regs do you ? Ha ha. 
Auto weapons regulated federally. And you guys say you know something about the constitution. Hilarious.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Okay.......fine........now what do you do about it?


Already told you. Regulate sales and transfer federally like auto firearms are. It’s that simple. Guarantee, criminal possession of firearms would drop dramatically if they were.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 20, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Most certainly is. They stop speeders, arrest criminals and fine fraud. They are in the business of promoting good behavior. Gee, I thought that was obvious ! Your telling us the govt should not do the job of law enforcement. The one of the main idea of arresting, tying and jailing people is to scare the bee geezus out of others to behave themselves.



Those things are punished because they harm other people.  That is the role of the Govt, to keep me from harming you and vice versa.



Dagosa said:


> Rewarding people for buying an electric car is no different. They are trying to elicit good behavior in a different way by not just scaring the shit out of them.



It is not the same thing at all.


----------



## miketx (Mar 20, 2022)

JGalt said:


> How about we just ban that st..st..st..stuttering fuck?


That's easy for you to say,


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 20, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Those things are punished because they harm other people.  That is the role of the Govt, to keep me from harming you and vice versa.
> 
> 
> 
> It is not the same thing at all.


Exactly the same thing. Pollution, auto accidents kill more people. Guess you never looked at the stats.  Maybe you think that lower insurance rates for drivers with fewer  offenses isn’t good. That’s how private insurance and gov work together to keep accidents down and save lives. Seriously, have you ever read the mission statement of gov agencies to see how they are related to the constitution, or are you just listening to Fix News and Tucker. The local, state and federal gov are suppose to pass every thing they do through constitutional law. Really, you guys are so inept , you don’t even know how much you are.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 20, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Maybe you think that lower insurance rates for drivers with fewer offenses isn’t good. That’s how private insurance and gov work together to keep accidents down and save lives.



This is not the Govt and private insurance working together, this is the auto insurance industry choosing, and I totally support private companies doing such things.  There is a world of difference between what private companies should do and what the Govt should. 



Dagosa said:


> Seriously, have you ever read the mission statement of gov agencies to see how they are related to the constitution, or are you just listening to Fix News and Tucker.



 

This is why I love these forums.  In one thread I am called a far left Biden loving liberal and in the next I am a right-winger listening to Fox and Tucker.

Much of what our Fed Govt does is not allowed by the Fed Constitution.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 20, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Already told you. Regulate sales and transfer federally like auto firearms are. It’s that simple. Guarantee, criminal possession of firearms would drop dramatically if they were.



Don't you believe it.  The problem is not private sales, the problem is that people deliberately buy guns for people that are not allowed to own or be in possession of one.  Lay the penalty on such people instead of inconveniencing everybody else.  Make sure anybody applying for a federal license to sell guns is thoroughly checked out and keep tabs on them as to who they are selling guns to.  Have the FBI check out any theft claims by FFL's to make sure they are legit.  

Very few crimes are committed by people who buy guns from sellers that are legitimately selling their weapon for whatever reason.  Most people ask for a copy of their ID when they do sell a stranger a firearm.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 20, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> This is not the Govt and private insurance working together, this is the auto insurance industry choosing, and I totally support private companies doing such things.  There is a world of difference between what private companies should do and what the Govt should.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess when ever we refer to a mission statement and the constitution, you bail out. You have no understanding of  our constitution whatsoever. You just use the word as talking point.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Very few crimes are committed by people who buy guns from sellers that are legitimately selling their weapon for whatever reason. Most people ask for a copy of their ID when they do sell a stranger a firearm.


Wrong. Nearly Every  firearm used by criminals  was first sold through a ligit FFL dealer. Maybe you didn’t know that ?
Babble babble.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> are legitimately selling their weapon for whatever reason. Most people ask for a copy of their ID when they do sell a stranger a firearm.


You have  no idea…..none whatsoever. The FBI does. They track the weapons. You don’t.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 20, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> You have  no idea…..none whatsoever. The FBI does. They track the weapons. You don’t.



Correct. That's why I read a report by the ATF to get my information.


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 20, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Since when have there been open borders ? Dems have deported more immigrants then Trump ever thought of.
> 
> That’s hilarious. How hard is it for an employer to ask for an ID and a visa ? So you worked your entire life and never had to produce an ID or proof of legitimacy to your employer ? You must live in OZ. More made up sht.


Employers generally get ID and must accept it at face value or be called racist.  What is needed is e-Verify.  Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats will  pass the laws to require it.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 21, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Employers generally get ID and must accept it at face value or be called racist.  What is needed is e-Verify.  Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats will  pass the laws to require it.



That system is known to have it's flaws as well.  The drug lords took over illegal immigration and with their millions of dollars bought the equipment needed to make flawless identifications for just about anybody that wants them.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 21, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Wrong. Nearly Every  firearm used by criminals  was first sold through a ligit FFL dealer. Maybe you didn’t know that ?
> Babble babble.


That is entirely 200% WRONG !!!

You're probably getting your information from the idiotic government propaganda, because that is most certainly not the reality on the street.

Right now in downtown Los Angeles, anyone can buy a cheap Chinese pea shooter for 50 bucks, no questions asked. Brand new, untraceable, standard gauges.

(Actually I take it back, that was last year. Maybe it's a hundred now).


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 21, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> People are free to go look at the post.
> 
> Also, you said this...._Banning bump stocks doesn't limit the 2nd Amendment._
> 
> ...


9th and 10th amendments.  Also the government only has those powers enumerated in the Constitution so which enumerated power authorizes the government to ban anything?


----------



## scruffy (Mar 21, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> 9th and 10th amendments.  Also the government only has those powers enumerated in the Constitution so which enumerated power authorizes the government to ban anything?


This federal government is completely fucked up. Thanks to the Supreme Fucktards 

FedGov should only have 10% of the power it's grabbed for itself.

A simple example are the pot laws.

Prohibition required a Constitutional Amendment on the way in, and a Constitutional Amendment on the way out. So, what changed?

The federal pot laws are unconstitutional from top to bottom. ALL of the Schedules are. Especially since their contents are subject to Presidential fiat.

The Supreme Dimwits are the ones who gave FedGov these powers. Those idiots are a bunch of ignorant chicken shits, they're more concerned about the non-existent integrity of the Court than they are about protecting the Constitution.


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> My issue is with the people that never shot a gun before, or otherwise treat it like a toy like I've seen a couple of times at the range.  Those people scare me.  If somebody wants to be totally careless with a firearm in their own home, that's their business.  When it comes to irresponsible people carrying around me in public, that's mine.
> 
> I think anytime you have to put time and energy into something you will take it much more seriously than people who don't.  I feel that way with CCW licenses, government housing, voting in person, all of it.  Taking away the licenses removes the value of carrying out in public.
> 
> I'm not a leftist so I don't have a crystal ball,  so only time will tell if this is a good idea or not for our state.



You may be pro-gun (I'm not always convinced) but you're certainly not pro-2nd-Amendment.  Do we need a license to speak?  Maybe some Bible studies classes before we're allowed to go to church?  You probably loved Hillary's licensing legitimate press idea.  After all, civil rights only apply with a government license and permission.

Open carry was the assumed right referred to in the 2nd Amendment and it wasn't until the very late 19th century when  open carry laws started at the state level in the US in order to disarm blacks.  It was racist in its origin and is absolutely unconstitutional to have any governmental restriction on carrying a gun in public.









						Open Carry of Handguns in Texas -- A Historical Perspective
					

It took the Republican-controlled 2015 Texas legislature to make open carry of handguns in public legal in Texas, achieving liberty for all.




					www.breitbart.com


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 21, 2022)

scruffy said:


> This federal government is completely fucked up. Thanks to the Supreme Fucktards
> 
> FedGov should only have 10% of the power it's grabbed for itself.
> 
> ...



Wrong.  The Supreme Court has no authority to give the Federal Government any powers.  When the government, or more specifically people within the government, act outside of their true constitutional authority that is called tyranny and those people are called tyrants.  They have the weapons to force compliance but they do not have any legal or constitutional authority to infringe on the right to keep and bear arms.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 21, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> You may be pro-gun (I'm not always convinced) but you're certainly not pro-2nd-Amendment.  Do we need a license to speak?  Maybe some Bible studies classes before we're allowed to go to church?  You probably loved Hillary's licensing legitimate press idea.  After all, civil rights only apply with a government license and permission.
> 
> Open carry was the assumed right referred to in the 2nd Amendment and it wasn't until the very late 19th century when  open carry laws started at the state level in the US in order to disarm blacks.  It was racist in its origin and is absolutely unconstitutional to have any governmental restriction on carrying a gun in public.
> 
> ...



Do we need a license to speak?  Yes we do in certain settings. You need to buy or obtain a permit by your city in many cases when it involves any kind of gathering of people.


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Constitutional carry is being able to conceal carry without a permit.


Constitutional carry is a lie.  It is still the state giving permission to do that which we already had permission, or more precisely needed no permission, to do.  It is also the states that do not give their permission forbidding people from the free exercise of their God-given, inalienable, constitutionally-protected, right to keep and bear arms.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...


I sincerely hope he and the Dem's in congress make a hard run on gun rights this year.



It will just make the November wipeout even more complete.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Wrong.  The Supreme Court has no authority to give the Federal Government any powers.  When the government, or more specifically people within the government, act outside of their true constitutional authority that is called tyranny and those people are called tyrants.  They have the weapons to force compliance but they do not have any legal or constitutional authority to infringe on the right to keep and bear arms.


"Might makes Right".

Unfortunately, eventually it's going to come down to gun owners say, "Not one more compromise of any Kind".

What are they going to do with over a 100,000 legal gun owners, tens of millions of others, and more than 400,000,000 guns already in circulation with billions of rounds of ammunition stocked away for a rainy day?


----------



## scruffy (Mar 21, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Constitutional carry is a lie.  It is still the state giving permission to do that which we already had permission, or more precisely needed no permission, to do.  It is also the states that do not give their permission forbidding people from the free exercise of their God-given, inalienable, constitutionally-protected, right to keep and bear arms.


We're on the same page. No lawfare of any kind will stop me from protecting my family. 

The liberals are being completely retarded with their idiotic restrictions. The best thing to do is just ignore them.


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I've been shooting guns for about 40 years now, and until the Vegas shooting, I never heard of bump stocks.  In fact many of my friends are shooters too and the same for them.  Sometimes you have to throw them a bone once in a while to make most of the people happy.



Ah, yes.  Compromise.  Give them a small bit of our liberty, just a little at a time, and then they won't take all of our liberty.  Got it.  So when does the taking our liberty stop?  Because every time we throw them a bone they're back for another bone.  I know you don't think you are part of the problem but you really are. 

You think you're pro-gun but that's just for fun; you don't really understand the meaning and the reason of the right to keep and bear arms or the 2nd Amendment.  You're not pro 2nd-Amendment and you're not pro right-to-keep-and-bear-arms.  At best you're a Fudd.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Do we need a license to speak?  Yes we do in certain settings. You need to buy or obtain a permit by your city in many cases when it involves any kind of gathering of people.


No, you don't need a license to speak.  Only if your gathering is going to create a public safety issue do you have to schedule it with the local authorities.

What part of "Shall not be infringed" is at all hard to understand?  The Second Amendment is the only line in the entire constitution with that specific and clear prohibition on the gov't.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Ah, yes.  Compromise.  Give them a small bit if our liberty, just a little at a time, and then they won't take all of our liberty.  Got it.  So when does the taking our liberty stop?  Because every time we throw them a bone they're back for another bone.  I know you don't think you are part of the problem but you really are.
> 
> You think you're pro-gun but that's just for fun; you don't really understand the meaning and the reason of the right to keep and bear arms or the 2nd Amendment.  You're not pro 2nd-Amendment and you're not pro right-to-keep-and-bear-arms.  At best you're a Fudd.


 Bumpstocks are not an arm, they are a stupid gimmick.

Trump should not have however thrown them than bone.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Do we need a license to speak?  Yes we do in certain settings. You need to buy or obtain a permit by your city in many cases when it involves any kind of gathering of people.


Funny, that.

Is there a license to riot too?

Did BLM obtain one?


----------



## scruffy (Mar 21, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> You have  no idea…..none whatsoever. The FBI does. They track the weapons. You don’t.


Shit. The Feebs track soccer moms. They couldn't find a weapon in a cupcake sized haystack.

How come liberals are under the delusion that it's the criminals registering their weapons? Maybe this is news for you, but 2/3 of the weapons in this country are unregistered  The FBI doesn't know diddly squat, they only know about the nice law abiding citizens.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 21, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> No, you don't need a license to speak.  Only if your gathering is going to create a public safety issue do you have to schedule it with the local authorities.
> 
> What part of "Shall not be infringed" is at all hard to understand?  The Second Amendment is the only line in the entire constitution with that specific and clear prohibition on the gov't.



It doesn't matter what the reason is, it's law that you must obtain a permit.  Now we get to the determination of what infringed means.  Should criminals be allowed to be armed in prison?  How about being able to vote once they get out?  What about age restrictions on voting?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> You have  no idea…..none whatsoever. The FBI does. They track the weapons. You don’t.


You are clueless.  It is a crime for any federal agency to keep a record of firearms transfers for more than 90 days without an open case and a warrant.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It doesn't matter what the reason is, it's law that you must obtain a permit.  Now we get to the determination of what infringed means.  Should criminals be allowed to be armed in prison?  How about being able to vote once they get out?  What about age restrictions on voting?


That isn't the law anywhere in the US.  Where are you getting this crap?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 21, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Funny, that.
> 
> Is there a license to riot too?
> 
> Did BLM obtain one?



No because rioting is illegal.  You can't give out permits to do anything illegal.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Should criminals be allowed to be armed in prison? How about being able to vote once they get out? What about age restrictions on voting?


Criminals are not "The People".

You can forfeit any or all of your rights upon conviction of a crime.

Age restrictions do not violate any part of the Constitution, Full rights are not afforded to minors because they cannot be held fully accountable for their actions until they reach the age of majority.  Today that age is 18.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 21, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> That isn't the law anywhere in the US.  Where are you getting this crap?



Of course it's a law, a city law.  You need a permit to host a public gathering be it to speak or have a block party on your street.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Of course it's a law, a city law.  You need a permit to host a public gathering be it to speak or have a block party on your street.


So as I said, only if your gathering creates a public safety issue.  The speech is not restricted, they just need to be notified so they can provide adequate services to police the gathering.

You can stand up anywhere in public anytime and give a speech legally unless  you're interfering with the rights of others or ongoing gov't operations such as counsel meeting or court session.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 21, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Criminals are not "The People".
> 
> You can forfeit any or all of your rights upon conviction of a crime.
> 
> Age restrictions do not violate any part of the Constitution, Full rights are not afforded to minors because they cannot be held fully accountable for their actions until they reach the age of majority.  Today that age is 18.



But it doesn't say that in the Constitution.  Point being, rights are not without strings attached which I gave several instances of.  It all depends on which right you're talking about and the effect on the public in general.


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 21, 2022)

Abatis said:


> I agree.  The primary thrust of my post was simply to rebut what I quoted; the idea that "_Trump signed an anti-gun EO that banned bump stocks_" and "_this action by Trump set a precedent for future presidents to whittle away at gun rights via EOs_". Nowhere in my post -- directed to explain the actual history and regulatory and legal background -- did I endorse or support the claim of power to do what was done.
> 
> If any President set any precedent, was Obama's EO-13637, (2013) that established that Presidents can authorize agencies to  interpret law to form regulations on arms, including review of definitions.
> 
> ...


Read the link I posted.  Here it is again:









						En Banc Sixth Circuit Splits 8-8 Over Bump Stock Ban
					

The district court decision upholding the ATF's conclusion that bump stocks constitute unlawful "machine guns" is upheld by an equally divided court.




					reason.com
				




Depending on interpretation, 5 or 6 of the 6th Circuit Judges said that saying a bumpstock is a machine gun is a correct interpretation of the law as written.  That is the argument being made by the ATF and that is why the three judge panel had first tossed the case, correctly - because the ATF does not have the authority to rewrite the law defining a machine gun.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> But it doesn't say that in the Constitution.  Point being, rights are not without strings attached which I gave several instances of.  It all depends on which right you're talking about and the effect on the public in general.



That's exactly what it says, "The Right of The People".  "The People" is the whole of the people in the country.

Read Scalia's opinion in Heller, it's all spelled out in detail.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Of course it's a law, a city law.  You need a permit to host a public gathering be it to speak or have a block party on your street.


lol

So you have a big party, that's all.

Look at it this way: if you borrow a million from the bank, the bank owns you. If you borrow a billion from the bank, you own the bank


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 21, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> So as I said, only if your gathering creates a public safety issue.  The speech is not restricted, they just need to be notified so they can provide adequate services to police the gathering.
> 
> You can stand up anywhere in public anytime and give a speech legally unless  you're interfering with the rights of others or ongoing gov't operations such as counsel meeting or court session.



And so what happens if a city decides not to give you a permit to host your gathering in which to speak?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> And so what happens if a city decides not to give you a permit to host your gathering in which to speak?


You sue their ass and win.


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 21, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Criminals are not "The People".
> 
> You can forfeit any or all of your rights upon conviction of a crime.
> 
> Age restrictions do not violate any part of the Constitution, Full rights are not afforded to minors because they cannot be held fully accountable for their actions until they reach the age of majority.  Today that age is 18.


Where does it say your rights can be forfeit on conviction of a crime?  That certainly did not happen for the first 149 years of our nation's history.  The only right that can be revoked for crime, according to the Constitution, is the right to vote.

And where does it say rights don't apply to minors?  Are you suggesting they can be jailed without a trial?  No free speech?  Searched at will with no probable cause?


----------



## scruffy (Mar 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> And so what happens if a city decides not to give you a permit to host your gathering in which to speak?


See? You're thinking about this all wrong.

You have to put on your Alinsky hat when you're dealing with the government, like the lefties do

If you ask, they can say no. So you don't ask


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 21, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> That's exactly what it says, "The Right of The People".  "The People" is the whole of the people in the country.
> 
> Read Scalia's opinion in Heller, it's all spelled out in detail.



Rights are restricted to certain people.  If they were not, mentally unstable people would have to be allowed to not only buy a gun, but carry it out in public as well.  We don't allow that for obvious reasons.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Rights are restricted to certain people.  If they were not, mentally unstable people would have to be allowed to not only buy a gun, but carry it out in public as well.  We don't allow that for obvious reasons.


lol

Politicians can carry, can't they?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 21, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Where does it say your rights can be forfeit on conviction of a crime?  That certainly did not happen for the first 149 years of our nation's history.  The only right that can be revoked for crime, according to the Constitution, is the right to vote.
> 
> And where does it say rights don't apply to minors?  Are you suggesting they can be jailed without a trial?  No free speech?  Searched at will with no probable cause?



Okay, then why are minors not allowed to vote?  Why are minors not allowed to carry a gun in public?  In my state the age is 21 to carry a loaded firearm.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> And so what happens if a city decides not to give you a permit to host your gathering in which to speak?


You're still thinking like a law abiding citizen. Don't you realize that's not in fashion any more? No one's doing it, not even the FBI


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 21, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Right, but that doesn't violate the 2nd Amendment.  It violated Article 2 and the 5th Amendment.



According to the 6th Circuit and the ATF, a bumpstock is a machine gun.  That means that it is their intent to violate the 2nd Amendment.  In any case, it threatens the 2nd Amendment as I explained: any time we allow the government to violate the Constitution we empower them to violate it again.  In this case, specifically, the court held that the bumpstock IS a machine gun and the ATF can ban it.  That is precedent that the ATF can change the law regarding gun rights without Congress or Article V.  That precedent enables any and all future violations of the 2nd Amendment.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 21, 2022)

scruffy said:


> You're still thinking like a law abiding citizen. Don't you realize that's not in fashion any more? No one's doing it, not even the FBI



Nah.  Just playing devils advocate and merely pointing out our rights don't come with no restrictions.  It's been going on for generations.


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 21, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> All bull crap. The policeman has a need in law enforcement for high cap pistols and full autos, just like the military does in some situations. The average  citizen does not.   To make such an analogy is idiotic.
> 
> I am a permitted gun owner. The success in personal self defense rests in how quickly you can get a firearm of moderate capacity into action at close range without endangering innocent by standers. I guarantee, I can do that much much more quickly with a  five shot snubby or 6 round  compact Glock both of which I am much more likely to carry then your stupid, over power .40 cal with 15 rounds or even a more ridiculous AR15 platform  rifle…
> 
> In the vast majority of situations, you would lose if the attacked came at you with such small concealable and quick into action firearms. The vast majority of self defense situations are adjudicated in two rounds. Having a 15 round .40 cal for normal  self defense is rediculous. I’m ALWAYS armed, you aren’t. I can get mine into action before you can make the decision to remove a safety or rack a slide. You don’t know WTF you are talking about.


Has anyone told you lately that you're an idiot?  Let me fill the gap.  You don't know a thing about what I carry and how I carry it.  I'm not going to suggest a duel in the middle of the street at high-noon, but don't be too confident in your skills.

And you don't get to  decide which potential emergency or defensive situations I get to plan or prepare for.  If you're happy with 5 rounds, that's a good choice for you.  I can post all day long stories of how trained police can't hit shit in 5 rounds because shooting at your paper targets is not the same as shooting at someone who's shooting back.  

Success in self-defense has nothing at all to do with how fast you can get a firearm of moderate capacity into action.  Whatever a moderate capacity gun is, it has nothing at all to do with success.  What matters is can you get your firearm into action in time.  Whether an 8-shot revolver or a 21-shot semi-automatic 9mm, doesn't matter if you get it there on there on time AND if you can hit your targets, all targets, with stopping injuries.  Sometimes a single round is enough, sometimes 30 rounds is not enough.  In any case, you don't get to decide for me.


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 21, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Guess you don’t know much about federal vs state regs do you ? Ha ha.
> Auto weapons regulated federally. And you guys say you know something about the constitution. Hilarious.


Federal regulations on machine guns only work because there are other weapons available to fill the gap.  If you ban firearms, even if they can get most out of the hands of criminals, they will start on knives and baseball bats next.  It would reduce gun crime but not reduce crime a single bit.


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> That system is known to have it's flaws as well.  The drug lords took over illegal immigration and with their millions of dollars bought the equipment needed to make flawless identifications for just about anybody that wants them.


e-Verify will at least show if a person is already working in another state


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 21, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Bumpstocks are not an arm, they are a stupid gimmick.
> 
> Trump should not have however thrown them than bone.


i agree completely about the worthlessness of bumpstocks.  But the ATF and the Court ruled that they are machine guns and that the ATF can change the law without legislative action to include bumpstocks in the definition of machine gun - so when are they going back to their attempt to include 14-inch shoe laces as machine guns?

The precedent in this entire matter is that the ATF now has the authority, according to the 6th-Circuit, to change gun law on their own.


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It doesn't matter what the reason is, it's law that you must obtain a permit.  Now we get to the determination of what infringed means.  Should criminals be allowed to be armed in prison?  How about being able to vote once they get out?  What about age restrictions on voting?


The Constitution specifies the age for voting and states that the right to vote can be removed for criminals.

Common law, as well as common sense, allows access to ones guns be denied while in a prison or jail.  For 145 years no one in government tried to restrict access upon release because they knew it wasn't allowed.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Where does it say your rights can be forfeit on conviction of a crime?  That certainly did not happen for the first 149 years of our nation's history.  The only right that can be revoked for crime, according to the Constitution, is the right to vote.
> 
> And where does it say rights don't apply to minors?  Are you suggesting they can be jailed without a trial?  No free speech?  Searched at will with no probable cause?


It's been the case since day one.  We've never let criminals run free after conviction or keep weapons while incarcerated.

Your very right to life is forefeet upon conviction of a capital crime.

You need to learn to read closer.  I never said kids have no rights, I said they are not afforded full rights until reaching the age of majority.

Parents can ground their kids, spank their kids, schools can search both kids and lockers without a warrant as long as they have either probable cause or search all the lockers.

Until you reach the age of majority you cannot even legally sign a binding contract.

Along with these though also come with kids who commit crimes not having to face the adult justice/courts or upon conviction be placed in adult prisons except in very rare cases when a judge rules that the circumstances surrounding the crime warrant it.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> i agree completely about the worthlessness of bumpstocks.  But the ATF and the Court ruled that they are machine guns and that the ATF can change the law without legislative action to include bumpstocks in the definition of machine gun - so when are they going back to their attempt to include 14-inch shoe laces as machine guns?
> 
> The precedent in this entire matter is that the ATF now has the authority, according to the 6th-Circuit, to change gun law on their own.


I'm well aware, it's ridiculous on it's face.


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Okay, then why are minors not allowed to vote?  Why are minors not allowed to carry a gun in public?  In my state the age is 21 to carry a loaded firearm.


The voting age is in the Constitution.  Historically, it was a states rights issue and states can make their own laws.  There was no right to vote defined in the Constitution for the greater part of our history, other than that the states are a republican form of government.

There were no restrictions on how the States ran their elections until the 14th Amendment which set the age to vote at 21.  It stayed that way until 1971.

Until 1968, any child could simply order a gun through the Sears Catalog and have it delivered at home.   For 179 years of our history, it was the parents who kept guns out of the hands of children, not the government.


----------



## Colin norris (Mar 21, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...


Bullshit. That is not what he said.  Read it again. 


protectionist said:


> Second, I don't think Biden, or any of his leftist friends, clueless about guns, have any idea what they're talking about, when they loosely throw the phrase "assault weapons".


Yes they do and not you or any private citizen has a use for them other than your ego. 


protectionist said:


> I've heard some of them refer to the AR-15 rifle as an assault weapon , when it's just an ordinary rifle, that fires one shot with each pull of the trigger.


Really, what makes it automatic is how fast you can pull the trigger. You are desperate for justifications  


protectionist said:


> Third, unlike Biden's claim that high capacity magazines have no place in a civilized society, and his question of why there is a need for that, there easily could be a need.  What if a whole gang of thugs show up in your front yard ? (let's say 10-15 of them).  A 6 shooter wouldn't cover that.


But the point being, your scenario is virtually impossible.  If there where that many you'd be dead before you got your gun. 
Expecting something that had never happened and unlikely to ever happen, is not justification. A well armed militia does not include or mention your right to shoot people in a group. 


protectionist said:


> Third, gun manufacturers have nothing to do with any of this.


Youre wrong again. They are partly responsible for selling weapons to idiots who don't need them. Furthermore, the gun manufacturer was prosecuted and found guilty over the sandy hook massacre. Get some facts boy  


protectionist said:


> In addition to the guns possessed by police, there are far more guns in the hands of law-abiding people (with CCW permits), than there are criminals in possession of them.


So that's a justification? Youre getting more desperate. 


protectionist said:


> And you cant blame an inanimate object.  Some people kill or injure others with a car.  Wanna ban cars ?


Thats a pathetic argument.
There's simply no comparison. Guns are made for one thing.  To kill. Cars are not.  


protectionist said:


> Some people are attacked with baseball bat.  Wanna ban baseball bats ?


same as above   


protectionist said:


> Some people are killed with a kitchen knife.  Wanna ban them ?


Same again. 


protectionist said:


> Lastly, banning assault rifles (whatever anybody defines that to be) or any kind of rifle, doesnt ,match up with the facts. Relatively, very few people are killed with rifles.


Exactly.  That is why they are not necessary for your average garden variety idiot who gets one because he can. The 2nd has been taken completely out of context and promoted by the nra and republican party.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> Bullshit. That is not what he said.  Read it again.
> 
> Yes they do and not you or any private citizen has a use for them other than your ego.
> 
> ...


It's a protected right, we don't need a reason or permission and no, obviously Neither Biden nor 99.999% of the democrats wailing about "assault weapons" has a clue as to what they're talking about.

It's not an automatic if it only fires once with each pull of the trigger, it's a "Semi Automatic".

"Assault Weapons" are issued to cops and soldiers and none of them are semi automatic, they are select fire fully automatic weapons.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 21, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> It's a protected right, we don't need a reason or permission and no, obviously Neither Biden nor 99.999% of the democrats wailing about "assault weapons" has a clue as to what they're talking about.
> 
> It's not an automatic if it only fires once with each pull of the trigger, it's a "Semi Automatic".


Don't bother.

They don't care how it works.

They just care that they get to control you with it.

These leftards can be very dangerous. One time I saw one get pissed off at his weapon on the range. I kid you not. He got mad and threw it on the ground, he was about ten degrees away from taking someone's head off.


----------



## Colin norris (Mar 21, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> It's a protected right,


it is not a protect right to own a container full of guns you never use.  Its says "a well armed militia". 
Nothing else. You are not part of any militia. Just a bunch of wannabe ciwboys  


Desert Texan said:


> we don't need a reason or permission and no, obviously Neither Biden nor 99.999% of the democrats wailing about "assault weapons" has a clue as to what they're talking about.


I know heaps of democrats who have guns. That statement just shows your ignorance duckhead.
I never said you need permission   I said you don't need that many guns or assault rifles and you don't.


Desert Texan said:


> It's not an automatic if it only fires once with each pull of the trigger, it's a "Semi Automatic".


Who cares? It can fire a lot if bullets very quickly. Youre be childishly pedantic with your justifications.


Desert Texan said:


> "Assault Weapons" are issued to cops and soldiers and none of them are semi automatic, they are select fire fully automatic weapons.


Oh wonderful.  That keeps them out if the hands of idiots like you.

You've become very agitated about me questioning you. All the scenarios you suggest you need guns for are bullshit. 
If be surprised if you used every one once a week for their designed purpose.
You can own a battalion of guns for all I care. There will be no invasion of the country, youve never defended yourself in your life and done fuck all about tyranny in the WH. 
You have them for testosterone reasons.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> Youre wrong again. They are partly responsible for selling weapons to idiots who don't need them. Furthermore, the gun manufacturer was prosecuted and found guilty over the sandy hook massacre. Get some facts boy


Gun manufacturers don't sell firearms to anyone except wholesalers and large chains with the exception of custom guns.

Are we to hold automakers responsible for idiots misusing cars who harm or kill others?

How about hammer manufacturers?  Knife manufacturers?

None of them are responsible for your choices or mine.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> it is not a protect right to own a container full of guns you never use. Its says "a well armed militia".
> Nothing else. You are not part of any militia. Just a bunch of wannabe ciwboys


No, that isn't what it says, you need to learn to read.

The right is both collective and individual.  The militia clause does not create a requirement for membership in any active militia to keep and bear.  That was never the intent of any of the founders who drafted and campaigned for ratification of the BOR, nor to anyone living at the time.

"The Right of the People to keep and bear arms Shall Not Be Infringed".  There's no room for interpretation there.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> know heaps of democrats who have guns. That statement just shows your ignorance duckhead.
> I never said you need permission I said you don't need that many guns or assault rifles and you don't



Our rights are not dependent on what you think we "need".  "Shall not be infringed".  What part of that is giving you so much difficulty?


----------



## Colin norris (Mar 21, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Gun manufacturers don't sell firearms to anyone except wholesalers and large chains with the exception of custom guns.
> 
> Are we to hold automakers responsible for idiots misusing cars who harm or kill others?


In cases it has happened with that Ford thing that caused many deaths.  They were held responsible so that fucks that story. 


Desert Texan said:


> How about hammer manufacturers?  Knife manufacturers?


Now your getting ridiculous.  That's not a justification. 


Desert Texan said:


> None of them are responsible for your choices or mine.


Just recently, a kid got a gun and blew the snot out of his mates. His parents were rounded up and charged with a crime. 
Thats another theory of yours out the door.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 21, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...


Specifically, the second amendment says that the right to bear arms in a _*well organized militia*_ cannot be infringed upon.  It doesn't say that the country should be allowed to become dodge city.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> In cases it has happened with that Ford thing that caused many deaths.  They were held responsible so that fucks that story.
> 
> Now your getting ridiculous.  That's not a justification.
> 
> ...


No there wasn't.  Those cases where manufacturers were held responsible was under strict liabilty for manufacturers design flaws and/or faulty parts, not because of how people used them.



> Just recently, a kid got a gun and blew the snot out of his mates. His parents were rounded up and charged with a crime.
> Thats another theory of yours out the door.



How so, the parents were responsible for failing to secure the firearm keeping it away from a minor child, that's not the fault of the manufacturer, the gun performed exactly as designed.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Specifically, the second amendment says that the right to bear arms in a _*well organized militia*_ cannot be infringed upon.  It doesn't say that the country should be allowed to become dodge city.


That's probably the most dishonest misrepresentation of the 2nd Amendment I've ever seen written.  Congrats, everyone should be good at one thing.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 21, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> That's probably the most dishonest misrepresentation of the 2nd Amendment I've ever seen written.  Congrats, everyone should be good at one thing.


If you don't know that to be the truth, then you have never read the second amendment.  It was the Gun Lobby that has been convincing people that the second amendment says anyone can have a gun.  Big money talks and that's another of the industries that have been funding GOP candidates.  The actual wording is this:  _*“As part of a well regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”*_


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> If you don't know that to be the truth, then you have never read the second amendment.  It was the Gun Lobby that has been convincing people that the second amendment says anyone can have a gun.  Big money talks and that's another of the industries that have been funding GOP candidates.  The actual wording is this:  _*“As part of a well regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”*_


You are of course lying and we all know it.



> *A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.*











						U.S. Constitution - Second Amendment | Resources | Constitution Annotated | Congress.gov | Library of Congress
					

The original text of the Second Amendment of the Constitution of the United States.




					constitution.congress.gov
				




The fraud you are presenting doesn't make sense.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 21, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> You are of course lying and we all know it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bullshit.  An individual cannot be a well regulated Militia.  The NRA has been selling the bogus idea that anyone can have a gun since the late 19th century.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Bullshit.  An individual cannot be a well regulated Militia.  The NRA has been selling the bogus idea that anyone can have a gun since the late 19th century.


Every individual capable of bearing arms is a member of the Militia, organize or unorganized.

You flat lied as I proved, we all know it so just quit embarrassing yourself.

Pull your head out of your ass, stop lying, read Scalia's decision in Heller.  It's all documented historically there.

You cannot raise a militia in times of emergency if they individuals lack the materials to show up prepared for a fight.  The Militia is dependent on the individual, and the right is individual, right belong only to individuals, not gov't.



> *A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.*


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 21, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> I guess when ever we refer to a mission statement and the constitution, you bail out. You have no understanding of  our constitution whatsoever. You just use the word as talking point.



Mission statements are empty words.   

I understand the our constitution far better than you since you seem to think it gives the Fed Govt unlimited power.   There is nothing in our constitution that justifies a Fed Dept of Education for example.  But yet we have one.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 21, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Bullshit.  An individual cannot be a well regulated Militia.  The NRA has been selling the bogus idea that anyone can have a gun since the late 19th century.



How could you have any kind of militia when nobody is armed?  People back then didn't get government firearms like the men and women in our military do today, they all had to bring their own from firearms from home.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 21, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> If you don't know that to be the truth, then you have never read the second amendment.  It was the Gun Lobby that has been convincing people that the second amendment says anyone can have a gun.  Big money talks and that's another of the industries that have been funding GOP candidates.  The actual wording is this:  _*“As part of a well regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”*_



Yep, that's what it says, but remember that people back then talked a little differently than they do today. 









						How A Comma Gave Americans The Right To Own Guns
					

The Supreme Court struck down D.C.'s ban on hand guns, the strictest gun control law to date, because of a comma.




					www.businessinsider.com


----------



## TroglocratsRdumb (Mar 21, 2022)

Putin wants to confiscate people's guns in the Ukraine.
History shows us that totalitarian governments do not respect unarmed people.


----------



## TroglocratsRdumb (Mar 21, 2022)

It is kind of amazing that the Russian Army is being defeated with small arms.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 21, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> The Constitution specifies the age for voting and states that the right to vote can be removed for criminals.
> 
> Common law, as well as common sense, allows access to ones guns be denied while in a prison or jail.  For 145 years no one in government tried to restrict access upon release because they knew it wasn't allowed.



It is allowed because my state is one of them that does restrict firearm possession by ex-cons.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 21, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> e-Verify will at least show if a person is already working in another state



And what if the illegal immigrant was working in his or her former state?  When people want something bad enough they find ways to get it.   

Undocumented immigrant workers get around E-Verify mandates in several ways. The first is by taking advantage of E-Verify’s biggest weakness: It checks the identification papers, not the worker. Thus, an undocumented immigrant worker can pass an E-Verify check if he hands somebody else’s identification to his employer. According to an audit for the federal government conducted by Westat, about 54 percent of undocumented immigrant workers are approved to work by E-Verify for this very reason.









						Opinion | Why E-Verify is failing
					

It can’t succeed — and no one wants it to anyway.




					www.politico.com


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 21, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Federal regulations on machine guns only work because there are other weapons available to fill the gap.  If you ban firearms, even if they can get most out of the hands of criminals, they will start on knives and baseball bats next.  It would reduce gun crime but not reduce crime a single bit.



Banning guns will only take them from law abiding citizens. Criminals don't care about what our laws are. That's why they're criminals in the first place.  Then what we end up with is a disarmed society and an armed criminal element where the only other people that have guns are the police.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Mar 21, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> According to the 6th Circuit and the ATF, a bumpstock is a machine gun.  That means that it is their intent to violate the 2nd Amendment.  In any case, it threatens the 2nd Amendment as I explained: any time we allow the government to violate the Constitution we empower them to violate it again.  In this case, specifically, the court held that the bumpstock IS a machine gun and the ATF can ban it.  That is precedent that the ATF can change the law regarding gun rights without Congress or Article V.  That precedent enables any and all future violations of the 2nd Amendment.


It violated the Constitution, either way.  Which article, or amendment is violated is irrelevant.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 21, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Specifically, the second amendment says that the right to bear arms in a _*well organized militia*_ cannot be infringed upon.  It doesn't say that the country should be allowed to become dodge city.


That's NOT what it says.

Maybe try reading it sometime?


----------



## scruffy (Mar 21, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> If you don't know that to be the truth, then you have never read the second amendment.  It was the Gun Lobby that has been convincing people that the second amendment says anyone can have a gun.  Big money talks and that's another of the industries that have been funding GOP candidates.  The actual wording is this:  _*“As part of a well regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”*_


You're a total fucking liar.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 21, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Specifically, the second amendment says that the right to bear arms in a _*well organized militia*_ cannot be infringed upon.  It doesn't say that the country should be allowed to become dodge city.


The Supreme Court said we should all be allowed to be armed - if you want to call that Dodge City, that's your business.

The long-awaited ruling was the first time the Supreme Court tackled an issue hotly debated by constitutional scholars – what the wording of the Second Amendment actually means. It says: “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

Some gun foes argue that only “the people” as a group, such as in a state militia or national guard, can own guns – not individuals. On that basis, Washington passed a sweeping law banning virtually all handguns.

The high court ruled that Americans can keep them in their homes for self-defense.  That ruling was in 2008.  Today, states are passing laws allowing people to carry guns outside, even without a license.

A handgun is the preferred weapon, Justice Antonin Scalia said, in part because “it can be pointed at a burglar with one hand while the other hand dials the police.”





__





						SUPREME COURT RULES IN FAVOR OF GUN OWNERSHIP RIGHTS
					

The US Supreme Court handed down a landmark decision today shooting down a strict ban on handguns – a ruling that New York City officials said would have little impact here, but could open th…




					nypost.com


----------



## protectionist (Mar 21, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> Bullshit. That is not what he said.  Read it again.
> 
> Yes they do and not you or any private citizen has a use for them other than your ego.
> 
> ...


This is all too long and IDIOTIC to deserve the dignity of a response, other than to say that. Shame that airheads like this can't take the post he just quoted, and learn from it. But that's the kind of world we live in - full of idiots.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 21, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> it is not a protect right to own a container full of guns you never use.  Its says "a well armed militia".
> Nothing else. You are not part of any militia. Just a bunch of wannabe ciwboys
> 
> I know heaps of democrats who have guns. That statement just shows your ignorance duckhead.
> ...


The militia argument was settled by the US Supreme Court in 2008. If you don't like the decision, move to Russia or Cuba, CCBC (Commie Comic Book Character)


----------



## scruffy (Mar 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yep, that's what it says, but remember that people back then talked a little differently than they do today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's not at all what it says.

I find it entirely shocking that I have to educate BOTH lefties and righties on this point.

You see, in the old days, there were no 'issues' associated with the militia. If you were called up to fight, you didn't get "issued" a rifle, you were expected to have your own.

And, at various points, the leftards in the various state governments sought to disarm their constituents during peacetime, and this federal document was an agreement that they COULD NOT AND WOULD NOT DO THAT.

Nothing has changed. If the Chinese show up at our doors tomorrow morning, there isn't going to be time to "issue" anyone anything.

And the reality is 2/3 of the guns in this country are unregistered. The Feebs have no idea where they are, or who owns them and who doesn't.

Strangely enough, in the event of an actual emergency, our lives would be in the hands of drug dealers and gang bangers. Because that's where 2/3 of the guns are.


Except of course if you own one yourself, in which case you stand a snowball's chance of protecting your family.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 21, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Every individual capable of bearing arms is a member of the Militia, organize or unorganized.
> 
> You flat lied as I proved, we all know it so just quit embarrassing yourself.
> 
> ...


What is well regulated about guns through the mail or at gun shows?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 21, 2022)

scruffy said:


> That's not at all what it says.
> 
> I find it entirely shocking that I have to educate BOTH lefties and righties on this point.
> 
> ...


And it got that way because of misinterpretation of the second amendment along with lobbying by groups like the NRA.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> What is well regulated about guns through the mail or at gun shows?


Doesn't say a damned thing about regulating guns in the 2nd Amendment.

What it does say is, "A well Regulated Militia".

Well regulated in that era meant to function properly as designed, "A well regulated clock keeps proper time".

Of course, you've already proven yourself to be a liar and fraud relative to this subject why should anyone believe anything else you have to say.





__





						The Meaning of “Well Regulated” in the 2nd Amendment
					

Those opposed to gun rights often argue that the phrase well regulated means that the drafters of the 2nd Amendment intended to allow the government to



					www.learnaboutguns.com


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> And it got that way because of misinterpretation of the second amendment along with lobbying by groups like the NRA.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

scruffy said:


> You're a total fucking liar.


And completely unabashed about being so.

Just an angry little troll raging on the internet spreading his own misery to others.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Banning guns will only take them from law abiding citizens. Criminals don't care about what our laws are. That's why they're criminals in the first place.  Then what we end up with is a disarmed society and an armed criminal element where the only other people that have guns are the police.


What you then get is Mexico with the highest murder rates in the world.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

TroglocratsRdumb said:


> It is kind of amazing that the Russian Army is being defeated with small arms.


The same kind of "Arms", the founders intended all of us to have access to.

What is "arms", "Anything a man can take into his hands in his own defense".


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 21, 2022)

protectionist said:


> This is all too long and IDIOTIC to deserve the dignity of a response, other than to say that. Shame that airheads like this can't take the post he just quoted, and learn from it. But that's the kind of world we live in - full of idiots.


Well, if you get aboard the next SpaceX flight, we'll have one less idiot to worry about.  Bon Voyage!


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yep, that's what it says, but remember that people back then talked a little differently than they do today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, that isn't close to what it says.  There was never any intent to require service in any militia to keep and bear arms, there's absolutely nothing in the history of the founding that supports any such claim.

Who is the militia, "Every one of us capable of bearing arms".


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 21, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> No, that isn't close to what it says.  There was never any intent to require service in any militia to keep and bear arms, there's absolutely nothing in the history of the founding that supports any such claim.
> 
> Who is the militia, "Every one of us capable of bearing arms".


According to you.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 21, 2022)

This from Pewresearch in 2020.  
How has the number of U.S. gun deaths changed over time?​
The 45,222 total gun deaths in 2020 were by far the most on record, representing a 14% increase from the year before, a 25% increase from five years earlier and a 43% increase from a decade prior.


Gun murders, in particular, have climbed sharply in recent years. The 19,384 gun murders that took place in 2020 were the most since at least 1968, exceeding the previous peak of 18,253 recorded by the CDC in 1993. The 2020 total represented a 34% increase from the year before, a 49% increase over five years and a 75% increase over 10 years.


The number of gun suicides has also risen in recent years – climbing 10% over five years and 25% over 10 years – and is near its highest point on record. The 24,292 gun suicides that took place in 2020 were the most in any year except 2018, when there were 24,432.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 21, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> According to you.





Desert Texan said:


> No, that isn't close to what it says.  There was never any intent to require service in any militia to keep and bear arms, there's absolutely nothing in the history of the founding that supports any such claim.
> 
> Who is the militia, "Every one of us capable of bearing arms".


Then, if you have kids, you'd better home school them or one or two of your Militia Men might blow their brains out.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 21, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> This from Pewresearch in 2020.
> How has the number of U.S. gun deaths changed over time?​
> The 45,222 total gun deaths in 2020 were by far the most on record, representing a 14% increase from the year before, a 25% increase from five years earlier and a 43% increase from a decade prior.
> 
> ...


No shit Sherlock.

But why did you stop?

Why don't you continue your research, so you can find out what these numbers actually mean?

Riddle me this: HOW MANY of those murders were committed with registered weapons?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> According to you.


According to The Founders, Myself, and the US Supreme Court.

What have you got other than more lies and a stick up your ass?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> This from Pewresearch in 2020.
> How has the number of U.S. gun deaths changed over time?​
> The 45,222 total gun deaths in 2020 were by far the most on record, representing a 14% increase from the year before, a 25% increase from five years earlier and a 43% increase from a decade prior.
> 
> ...



Guns didn't murder anyone.  People commit murders, guns are just a tool and a very efficient one for the job.

85% of those murders are committed by gang bangers who can't possess a firearm legally to start with.

If you want to lower the murder rate, declare the gangs as the terrorist organizations they are and put every resource available into eradicating them.

Suicides?  How will you stop suicides?  Taking guns away from law abiding citizens certainly won't do it, those intent on committing suicide can always find a way to do so.

We had a hundred thousand overdose deaths last year alone mostly due to the Fentanyl spiked drugs coming from China through Mexico but that doesn't seem to bother you at all.

Of course your homicide and suicide numbers ignore a simple fact, both are at far lower rates than than we had at the peak in 1997 despite the growth in population with actual rates at 7.9/100k and 5.9/100k.

Of course most murders are also committed by repeat offenders so there's an easy answer to that one too, keep them in prison or execute them.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 21, 2022)

scruffy said:


> No shit Sherlock.
> 
> But why did you stop?
> 
> ...


And where do you suppose those unregistered weapons come from?  Did they fall from the sky?  America has too many weapons.  They are too available.  And registered weapons that are stolen become unregistered weapons.   There's no double talking around the fact that countries with fewer weapons have less crime.  Compare Japan stats to US stats for instance.  A modern industrial society that has discovered that when you flood a country with weapons, whether they be registered or not, violent crime is affected.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Then, if you have kids, you'd better home school them or one or two of your Militia Men might blow their brains out.


I'm not worried in the least.  In my day every pickup and most of the cars in the HS parking lot had at least a rifle and shotgun in them and guess what?  No problems.

I live in a community where about half the people are armed every day, we've had two shootings in 140 years.

Guns aren't the problem.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> And where do you suppose those unregistered weapons come from?  Did they fall from the sky?  America has too many weapons.  They are too available.  And registered weapons that are stolen become unregistered weapons.   There's no double talking around the fact that countries with fewer weapons have less crime.  Compare Japan stats to US stats for instance.  A modern industrial society that has discovered that when you flood a country with weapons, whether they be registered or not, violent crime is affected.


There is no federal firearms registration in the US Period.  You have no fucking clue what you're talking about as usual.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> And where do you suppose those unregistered weapons come from?  Did they fall from the sky?  America has too many weapons.  They are too available.  And registered weapons that are stolen become unregistered weapons.   There's no double talking around the fact that countries with fewer weapons have less crime.  Compare Japan stats to US stats for instance.  A modern industrial society that has discovered that when you flood a country with weapons, whether they be registered or not, violent crime is affected.


Then move to Japan, I'm sure you'll feel much safer.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> This from Pewresearch in 2020.
> How has the number of U.S. gun deaths changed over time?​
> The 45,222 total gun deaths in 2020 were by far the most on record, representing a 14% increase from the year before, a 25% increase from five years earlier and a 43% increase from a decade prior.
> 
> ...


Another great example of your consistent dishonesty.

The population increased by 126,087,990 people between 98 and 2020 so the rate went down by a third.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 21, 2022)

"Guns didn't murder anyone.  People commit murders, guns are just a tool and a very efficient one for the job."

That illogical argument has been used extensively by the NRA and gun manufacturers to justify sales and ensure profits.  But what they refuse to acknowledge is that in a real sense:  "People with guns kill other people."  They try to whitewash that fact and spread the lie that availability of guns has nothing to do with gun deaths.  The day that the gun lobby commits to help stop school shootings they may have some legitimacy.  And there are no laws regarding any buyer being made to prove that they are part of a regulated militia.  Gun people keep talking about how the thinking that went into the adoption of the second amendment cannot be applied to today in America.  That's just the fuckin' point!  The founders could never have imagined the proliferation of guns and/or the resultant violence that would ensue in a nation so flooded with guns. They expected that American leaders would have that little problem taken care of as society and circumstances changed over time.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 21, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Then move to Japan, I'm sure you'll feel much safer.


Brilliant argument.  Fuckin; idiot.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 21, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> I'm not worried in the least.  In my day every pickup and most of the cars in the HS parking lot had at least a rifle and shotgun in them and guess what?  No problems.
> 
> I live in a community where about half the people are armed every day, we've had two shootings in 140 years.
> 
> Guns aren't the problem.


Just because you are a fuckin' redneck moron, doesn't mean the rest of the country agrees with you.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Just because you are a fuckin' redneck moron, doesn't mean the rest of the country agrees with you.


What's the matter, did a mean old  redneck steal your girlfriend or did he run off with your mommy?



Unlike you, what I am is honest and correct.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 21, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> "Guns didn't murder anyone.  People commit murders, guns are just a tool and a very efficient one for the job."
> 
> That illogical argument has been used extensively by the NRA and gun manufacturers to justify sales and ensure profits.  But what they refuse to acknowledge is that in a real sense:  "People with guns kill other people."  They try to whitewash that fact and spread the lie that availability of guns has nothing to do with gun deaths.  The day that the gun lobby commits to help stop school shootings they may have some legitimacy.  And there are no laws regarding any buyer being made to prove that they are part of a regulated militia.  Gun people keep talking about how the thinking that went into the adoption of the second amendment cannot be applied to today in America.  That's just the fuckin' point!  The founders could never have imagined the proliferation of guns and/or the resultant violence that would ensue in a nation so flooded with guns. They expected that American leaders would have that little problem taken care of as society and circumstances changed over time.


Fucking delusional leftards.

Human nature hasn't changed in ten thousand years.

And it won't change in the next ten thousand either.

Stupid lefties!


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Brilliant argument.  Fuckin; idiot.


You're the one fetishizing about Japan the rest of us are pretty happy with the US, seems like a perfect match.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 21, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> What's the matter, did a mean old  redneck steal your girlfriend or did he run off with your mommy?
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike you, what I am is honest and correct.


Nah, he was too busy fucking a family member of his.  Gotta keep that gene pool pollution going so they produce more idiots like you.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 21, 2022)

Any time one of these Trump cult defectives toss their lame insults at me I chalk it up to the mental weakness that it took to stand asshole to belly button in line to be shorn by an even bigger idiot.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Fucking delusional leftards.
> 
> Human nature hasn't changed in ten thousand years.
> 
> ...


The rise in violent crime across the board since all of the BLM and Antifa Riots and idiot dem's turning violent criminals loose all over the nation has also precipitated the largest increase in firearms and ammunition sales in the history of the country as people become more and more concerned about their personal safety.  

They create problem and then want to blame the guns.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Nah, he was too busy fucking a family member of his.  Gotta keep that gene pool pollution going so they produce more idiots like you.


Poor effort, you should strive to do better in life.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Any time one of these Trump cult defectives toss their lame insults at me I chalk it up to the mental weakness that it took to stand asshole to belly button in line to be shorn by an even bigger idiot.





Wickerthing said:


> Just because you are a fuckin' redneck moron, doesn't mean the rest of the country agrees with you.


That kind of hypocrisy should hurt.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 21, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> "Guns didn't murder anyone.  People commit murders, guns are just a tool and a very efficient one for the job."
> 
> That illogical argument has been used extensively by the NRA and gun manufacturers to justify sales and ensure profits.  But what they refuse to acknowledge is that in a real sense:  "People with guns kill other people."  They try to whitewash that fact and spread the lie that availability of guns has nothing to do with gun deaths.  The day that the gun lobby commits to help stop school shootings they may have some legitimacy.  And there are no laws regarding any buyer being made to prove that they are part of a regulated militia.  Gun people keep talking about how the thinking that went into the adoption of the second amendment cannot be applied to today in America.  That's just the fuckin' point!  The founders could never have imagined the proliferation of guns and/or the resultant violence that would ensue in a nation so flooded with guns. They expected that American leaders would have that little problem taken care of as society and circumstances changed over time.



Of course they could, just like they knew times would change with everything else.  It's why they included an amendment process.  The Constitution can be changed to anything you want provided enough people support you.  But it can't be changed by a simple majority.  You can't believe for a minute that our founders envisioned us using muskets or single shot shotguns for eternity, can you?  

Nor is the US Constitution designed to be a living document where it changes automatically.  If that were the case, what would be the point of a constitution in the first place?  

You might not believe this, but people of yesteryear didn't have grocery stores and cell phones.  They had to hunt food for their family to survive.  They couldn't call the police if an aggressor attacked them at home.  They had to defend themselves from bad people and Indian tribes that were out to kill them.  This is on top of the possibility of an overthrown tyrannical government in which they may have to defend their freedom.  Our founders would never dream of giving government the power to disarm a society from these threats.

Now I put some thought into this.  Some people like you want us to get rid of our guns.  The only way that is possible is if we get rid of Democrats first.  Because you see, the reason we need our guns is because of Democrats.    

If I'm at my convenient store at night, I'm not worried about a Republican holding the store up, hitting me on the head with his gun and taking my wallet.  Republicans don't do those kinds of things.  Or if I'm at my drive thru ATM machine.  I'm not worried about a conservative wedging himself between the machine and my car with a gun forcing me to withdraw the maximum.  No, no, no, conservatives don't do those types of things--Democrats do those types of things. 

But since we can't get rid of Democrats Lord knows we're trying it's impossible for us to get rid of our guns. It simply can't be done.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> "Guns didn't murder anyone.  People commit murders, guns are just a tool and a very efficient one for the job."
> 
> That illogical argument has been used extensively by the NRA and gun manufacturers to justify sales and ensure profits.  But what they refuse to acknowledge is that in a real sense:  "People with guns kill other people."  They try to whitewash that fact and spread the lie that availability of guns has nothing to do with gun deaths.  The day that the gun lobby commits to help stop school shootings they may have some legitimacy.  And there are no laws regarding any buyer being made to prove that they are part of a regulated militia.  Gun people keep talking about how the thinking that went into the adoption of the second amendment cannot be applied to today in America.  That's just the fuckin' point!  The founders could never have imagined the proliferation of guns and/or the resultant violence that would ensue in a nation so flooded with guns. They expected that American leaders would have that little problem taken care of as society and circumstances changed over time.


It's simply a fact, a gun is simply an instrument, they are incapable of committing crimes.

Nothing in the 2nd Amendment requires one prove service in any militia to own firearms, why do you keep lying?

As for the proliferation of guys, virtually every adult in the US at the time of the founding other than slaves owned firearms, usually multiple firearms.  Of course the founders expected that to continue and they expected firearms technology to advance aright along with every other technology known to man at the time so again, why are you lying?

There is absolutely no historical evidence to support your final claim either so again... .


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Of course they could, just like they knew times would change with everything else.  It's why they included an amendment process.  The Constitution can be changed to anything you want provided enough people support you.  But it can't be changed by a simple majority.  You can't believe for a minute that our founders envisioned us using muskets or single shot shotguns for eternity, can you?
> 
> Nor is the US Constitution designed to be a living document where it changes automatically.  If that were the case, what would be the point of a constitution in the first place?
> 
> ...


To the bolded, more importantly, neither can anyone else short of God Almighty.

We have billions of rounds of ammo, millions of tons of reloading components, and upwards now of 400,000,000 guns already in circulation in the US not to mention 95,000 miles of US Coastline and almost 4,000 miles of dry borders and of course with the advent of 3D printers anyone can manufacture firearms at home today.

Now with all of that, if guns were the problem, there wouldn't be any of us left.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 21, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> And where do you suppose those unregistered weapons come from?  Did they fall from the sky?  America has too many weapons.  They are too available.  And registered weapons that are stolen become unregistered weapons.   There's no double talking around the fact that countries with fewer weapons have less crime.  Compare Japan stats to US stats for instance.  A modern industrial society that has discovered that when you flood a country with weapons, whether they be registered or not, violent crime is affected.



People of Japanese descent (and most all Asian descents) are no problem in our country either in spite of all the guns we have.  So what does this tell us?  It tells us that people are responsible for violent crime, not the guns.  

If you take your low-income ghetto inner city, make a law that nobody is allowed to have a firearm, their violent crime rate will not change.  If you do the opposite in a white middle-class suburban city and force every home to be armed, their violent crime rate won't change either.  

You can't make comparisons of a single culture country like Japan and a very diverse country like the United States.  It's apples and oranges.  For instance over 50% of our murders are committed by just 7% of our population, and that are black males.


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 21, 2022)

maybelooking said:


> it had zero effect on any damn thing to do with guns or gun violence.......but that doesn't change the fact it was still an infringement.


The Supremes say it's fine...and ..don't forget background checks


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> People of Japanese descent (and most all Asian descents) are no problem in our country either in spite of all the guns we have.  So what does this tell us?  It tells us that people are responsible for violent crime, not the guns.
> 
> If you take your low-income ghetto inner city, make a law that nobody is allowed to have a firearm, their violent crime rate will not change.  If you do the opposite in a white middle-class suburban city and force every home to be armed, their violent crime rate won't change either.
> 
> You can't make comparisons of a single culture country like Japan and a very diverse country like the United States.  It's apples and oranges.  For instance over 50% of our murders are committed by just 7% of our population, and that are black males.


Lefties as a rule are enamored with shiny objects, they apparently have no understanding at all of people or human psychology.

Humans had been killing each other quite effectively and efficiently for over a 100,000 years before the first firearm was even invented.

Would they be happier if we were walking around with spears, clubs, swords, hatches, axes, and daggers instead of a concealed firearm?

If I'm in a fight for my life or the life of someone else, I want the best possible weapon I can lay my hands on period.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

gipper said:


> Minor.


No measurable effect on crime.

"Assault weapons" as they classify them are the least frequently used of all firearms in crimes.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

busybee01 said:


> There are no civil rights violations here.


Your most basic civil right is the right to self defense and that is inseparable from the right to keep and bear arms.


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> People of Japanese descent (and most all Asian descents) are no problem in our country either in spite of all the guns we have.  So what does this tell us?  It tells us that people are responsible for violent crime, not the guns.
> 
> If you take your low-income ghetto inner city, make a law that nobody is allowed to have a firearm, their violent crime rate will not change.  If you do the opposite in a white middle-class suburban city and force every home to be armed, their violent crime rate won't change either.
> 
> You can't make comparisons of a single culture country like Japan and a very diverse country like the United States.  It's apples and oranges.  For instance over 50% of our murders are committed by just 7% of our population, and that are black males.


killing other black males to see who deals to whitey...


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

busybee01 said:


> Republicans are the masters of division. That is the only way they can win.


Sorry, was this supposed to be humor?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> killing other black males to see who deals to whitey...


Take care of that and about 85% of homicides go away.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 21, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Humans had been killing each other quite effectively and efficiently for over a 100,000 years before the first firearm was even invented.
> 
> Would they be happier if we were walking around with spears, clubs, swords, hatches, axes, and daggers instead of a concealed firearm?



To be honest, yes I do believe they would be happier with murders committed without guns.  









						London's murder rate surpasses New York's for 1st time ever
					

Depending who you ask, surging knife and gun crime could be blamed on social media, lax law enforcement, budget cuts or all of the above




					www.cbsnews.com


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 21, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> killing other black males to see who deals to whitey...



So?  That doesn't change statistics any now does it?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So?  That doesn't change statistics any now does it?


No but it addresses the root cause for most homicides in cities.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 21, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> No but it addresses the root cause for most homicides in cities.



You mean the guns????


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You mean the guns????


Gang activity.  Over half of all homicides are directly related to drug crime and about another 25% to gang activity not associated with drug crime.

85% of murders in the Cities could be eliminated by simply attacking the gangs as the terrorist operations that they are.


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So?  That doesn't change statistics any now does it?


Means we have a racist GOP Law and Order mess....


----------



## scruffy (Mar 22, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> Means we have a racist GOP Law and Order mess....


Law and order is racist? ???

And what does any of that have to do with the GOP?

Lefties are brain dead. Really. Truly.

So far in this thread we had a lefty wrong about the Constitution, wrong about the laws around the very topic we're discussing, and wrong about the reality on the street.

This is NOT UNUSUAL. Pretty much ALL libbies today are exactly like this. Ignorant, arrogant, and WRONG about everything that matters. They've lost touch with reality, they're spoon fed stereotypes by CNN that directly contradict actual reality and they can't discern, can't tell the difference.

These people are unqualified to manage our country. They prioritize racism over national security, and anyone with a brain cell knows we'll NEVER get rid of racism (through legislation or any other way), but the deluded lefties insist we leave the borders wide open so all the MS-13 gang members can get in. And God knows who else.

The earlier poster was absolutely correct, we can NOT trust our government to protect us. When seconds count, the cops will be there in minutes. And sometimes not at all. Cause they're too busy kneeling with a bunch of fucking COMMUNISTS.

Imagine that, police chiefs all over the country bamboozled by a few Marxists. And you want me to trust these dumbass retards, and give up my weapons so "only they" can protect my family?

Ain't happening.

Sorry lefties.

Pass all the stupid laws you want, I'll just ignore them. The HIGHEST LAW IN OUR LAND says every single one of those laws is unconstitutional. Yeah, the lefties could throw me in jail. But you know what? If I ever have to use my weapons the dumbass lefties are going to throw me in jail ANYWAY. They'll find a way. So I'm going to err on the side of protecting my family.

Sorry lefties. Sorry if you don't like it.

(NOT)


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 22, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Law and order is racist? ???
> 
> And what does any of that have to do with the GOP?
> 
> ...


Somehow in this era of "racial equity" minorities can no longer be treated the same under the law.

We've just gone back nearly 60 years in the fight for equality and civil rights.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 22, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Somehow in this era of "racial equity" minorities can no longer be treated the same under the law.
> 
> We've just gone back nearly 60 years in the fight for equality and civil rights.


And to think, the people who fought for it, are the same ones destroying it now.

Boggles the mind.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 22, 2022)

scruffy said:


> And to think, the people who fought for it, are the same ones destroying it now.
> 
> Boggles the mind.


No, people like me were leading that fight.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Of course they could, just like they knew times would change with everything else.  It's why they included an amendment process.  The Constitution can be changed to anything you want provided enough people support you.  But it can't be changed by a simple majority.  You can't believe for a minute that our founders envisioned us using muskets or single shot shotguns for eternity, can you?
> 
> Nor is the US Constitution designed to be a living document where it changes automatically.  If that were the case, what would be the point of a constitution in the first place?
> 
> ...


Are you back for yet another ass kicking?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Are you back for yet another ass kicking?


The only kicking you're doing is to whatever credibility anyone ever afforded you.

If you're not lying about the 2nd Amendment you're just raging and trolling those of us who actually know something on the subject and are honest about it.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> No measurable effect on crime.
> 
> "Assault weapons" as they classify them are the least frequently used of all firearms in crimes.


Tell that to the parents of those killed by AR 15's in schools.  See, that's the problem.  You idiots won't even consider a ban on assault weapons or banana clips.  It's just justification after justification.  The same people who will say that they understand that freedom of speech does not logically include yelling fire in a crowded theater, will put no limit on weapons of war and argue that they are trying to take away your handguns.  Somewhere there is a middle ground.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> The only kicking you're doing is to whatever credibility anyone ever afforded you.
> 
> If you're not lying about the 2nd Amendment you're just raging and trolling those of us who actually know something on the subject and are honest about it.


I wasn't talking to you there, Tex.  So hold your horses and calm down before you blow out an artery.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> I wasn't talking to you there, Tex.  So hold your horses and calm down before you blow out an artery.


Sad, but consistent.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Law and order is racist? ???
> 
> And what does any of that have to do with the GOP?
> 
> ...


Why are you righties so fuckin' paranoid?  What a way to live.  THEY are coming for us.  They are coming for our guns!  They They They.  Why so uptight?  Not healthy.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Sad, but consistent.


Don't be sad.  You can always go out and shoot something.  That'll make you feel better.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> It's simply a fact, a gun is simply an instrument, they are incapable of committing crimes.
> 
> Nothing in the 2nd Amendment requires one prove service in any militia to own firearms, why do you keep lying?
> 
> ...


So I guess you never watch the news?  You know what the founders thought about something that they could not have imagined?  They knew about gangs and school shootings and rifles like the M16 or AR 15 or AK 47's?  Who are you?  Nostradumbass?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> To be honest, yes I do believe they would be happier with murders committed without guns.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And how many students would be saved with knives and not guns being used when some nut blows a fuse?  Silly silly arguments are all you have.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> So I guess you never watch the news?  You know what the founders thought about something that they could not have imagined?  They knew about gangs and school shootings and rifles like the M16 or AR 15 or AK 47's?  Who are you?  Nostradumbass?


Stupid liberal. You expect me to take YOUR word for it? 

The dumbass libs have left orbit. Now they think they can read dead peoples' minds.

The progs are finished. Done. If this is the best they've got (and it looks like it is) then the rest of us can breathe a sigh of relief.

Hey, I'm not ordinarily a conservatard, but on this point I am. Lefties, today, are brain dead. They're being whipsawed by forces they don't even understand, and they're like "yeah, racism is bad, let's go protest". "Yeah, guns are bad, let's get rid of them". Unbelievable thoughtlessness from these people.

Progressives are becoming very unpopular. The arrogant ignorance won't fly, it just won't


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> So I guess you never watch the news?  You know what the founders thought about something that they could not have imagined?  They knew about gangs and school shootings and rifles like the M16 or AR 15 or AK 47's?  Who are you?  Nostradumbass?


They just had to worry about the French and Indians attacking and burning down the schools with kids in them.



> History of School Shootings in the United States​1700s​The earliest known United States shooting to happen on school property was the Pontiac's Rebellion school massacre on July 26, 1764, where four Lenape American Indian entered the schoolhouse near present-day Greencastle, Pennsylvania, shot and killed schoolmaster Enoch Brown, and killed nine or ten children (reports vary). Only two children survived.








						History of School Shootings in the United States | K12 Academics
					

1700s The earliest known United States shooting to happen on school property was the Pontiac's Rebellion school massacre on July 26, 1764, where four Lenape American Indian entered the schoolhouse near present-day Greencastle, Pennsylvania, shot and killed schoolmaster Enoch Brown, and killed...




					www.k12academics.com
				




They also understood that firearms technology was advancing rapidly and that it was the colonists having more advanced firearms that allowed them to defeat the British Time and again.

Our Rifled Muskets could shoot accurately at 3x the distance they were capable of only lobbing volley fire so they understood that we must at least be on even ground with any potential enemy, we needed an advantage.

History is great and fun, you should learn some.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 22, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Stupid liberal. You expect me to take YOUR word for it?
> 
> The dumbass libs have left orbit. Now they think they can read dead peoples' minds.
> 
> ...


The Deadliest School massacre in US history was perpetrated with explosives, not firearms.

Bath School Massacre.


US/ 
SCHOOL SHOOTINGS


> America's First School Massacre Still Its Deadliest​Andrew Kehoe's bombs killed 45 in 1927



Wouldn't it have been nice if someone had been armed and able to prevent it?









						America's First School Massacre Still Its Deadliest
					

Andrew Kehoe's bombs killed 45 in 1927




					www.newser.com


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> The Deadliest School massacre in US history was perpetrated with explosives, not firearms.
> 
> Bath School Massacre.
> 
> ...


So now your argument is that we shouldn't worry about assault weapons in schools because it could have been bombs?  You have the nerve to call Liberals brain dead?  That's why it's so much fun to expose you knuckleheads for who and what you are.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> So now your argument is that we shouldn't worry about assault weapons in schools because it could have been bombs?  You have the nerve to call Liberals brain dead?  That's why it's so much fun to expose you knuckleheads for who and what you are.


Why do you keep fabricating bullshit?  Is that really all you're capable of?

Kids can't legally bring guns to school dipshit.

You won't find even one time I've called liberals, "brain dead" on this or any other forum so again why do you feel such a compulsion to lie?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> They just had to worry about the French and Indians attacking and burning down the schools with kids in them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nobody is saying that there shouldn't be an Army Navy Airforce and MarineCorps you idiot.  Yet another very lamebrained argument by the right.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Why do you keep fabricating bullshit?  Is that really all you're capable of?
> 
> Kids can't legally bring guns to school dipshit.


So it makes no sense to try to keep them from acquiring them by limiting their numbers and making it harder to buy one or to permeate society?  You folks actually believe that you are making sense.  That's scary.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> So it makes no sense to try to keep them from acquiring them by limiting their numbers and making it harder to buy one or to permeate society?  You folks actually believe that you are making sense.  That's scary.


Why? It's not the law abiding gun owners that are the problem.

"Shall Not Be Infringed", learn to love it.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> The Deadliest School massacre in US history was perpetrated with explosives, not firearms.
> 
> Bath School Massacre.
> 
> ...


Wouldn't it be nice if we hadn't let it come down to that?  Frickin' morons.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Nobody is saying that there shouldn't be an Army Navy Airforce and MarineCorps you idiot.  Yet another very lamebrained argument by the right.


The colonial militia was not the Army, Navy, Air force or Marine Corps.  They were average farmers and villagers that turned out with their own firearms to fight the enemy, the same as we'd have to day in case of an invasion or civil war.

Fortunately our founders understood this and codified it in the 2nd Amendment.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Wouldn't it be nice if we hadn't let it come down to that?  Frickin' morons.


Well since that's simply not possible how bout we deal with reality instead?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> That's why it's so much fun to expose you knuckleheads for who and what you are.


The only thing you're exposing is your own ass with a *"Kick Me*" sign the size of a Movie Theater screen.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Wouldn't it be nice if we hadn't let it come down to that?  Frickin' morons.


The grand liberal delusion 

"We" can control it

If only we pass a few laws.

Lefties are the new Prohibitionists.

How'd that work out for you?

lol


----------



## scruffy (Mar 22, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> The only thing you're exposing is your own ass with a *"Kick Me*" sign the size of a Movie Theater screen.


I'm starting to think he's a sock designed to make lefties look bad.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 22, 2022)

scruffy said:


> The grand liberal delusion
> 
> "We" can control it
> 
> ...


"We're going to pass some more laws because people don't obey the laws we already have".

There's a hole in that theory somewhere.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 22, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> "We're going to pass some more laws because people don't obey the laws we already have".
> 
> There's a hole in that theory somewhere.


The beatings will continue until morale improves.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Why? It's not the law abiding gun owners that are the problem.
> 
> "Shall Not Be Infringed", learn to love it.


One of the latest in the school shootings was done by a kid whose parents left it out and even encouraged their idiot son to practice with it.  Those parents would fall into the category of legal possessors of firearms.  Precisely why there needs to be stricter background checks and there needs to be more control over who gets one and what their situation is and the fuckin' sheer numbers and types out there in circulation.  There's a case where a little infringing could have saved some kid's lives.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> One of the latest in the school shootings was done by a kid whose parents left it out and even encouraged their idiot son to practice with it.  Those parents would fall into the category of legal possessors of firearms.  Precisely why there needs to be stricter background checks and there needs to be more control over who gets one and what their situation is and the fuckin' sheer numbers and types out there in circulation.  There's a case where a little infringing could have saved some kid's lives.


And they are both going to prison for it.

They passed their background checks and so your premise is entirely flawed.

What exactly in their history would have caused them to fail an imaginary "stricter background check"?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> "We're going to pass some more laws because people don't obey the laws we already have".
> 
> There's a hole in that theory somewhere.


There's a hole somewhere alright.  Check under your cowboy hat there Tex.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> There's a case where a little infringing could have saved some kid's lives.


False premise, the kid could have picked up a gun on half the street corners in the hood for 300.00 to do the same crime.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> And they are both going to prison for it.
> 
> They passed their background checks and so your premise is entirely flawed.
> 
> What exactly in their history would have caused them to fail an imaginary "stricter background check"?


The facts of the case in and of itself is clear evidence that they weren't vetted properly or the rules aren't strict enough.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> The facts of the case in and of itself is clear evidence that they weren't vetted properly or the rules aren't strict enough.


The facts show no such thing.

What exactly in their backgrounds would prevent them from passing your fantasy "enhanced background checks".

Be specific.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> False premise, the kid could have picked up a gun on half the street corners in the hood for 300.00 to do the same crime.


Yeah, ain't that a fuckin' shame that we've let it come down to that?  C'mon people.  It's out of control.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> The facts show no such thing.
> 
> What exactly in their backgrounds would prevent them from passing your fantasy "enhanced background checks".
> 
> Be specific.


What would a Trumper know about facts?  LOL


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

Well, I've got a full day ahead of me so I'll let you tough guys with your penis extensions (guns) dream about growing up.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> According to you.


According to the US Supreme Court, which by design, is the voice of all Americans.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> What would a Trumper know about facts?  LOL


Who else would ? Answer: nobody.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Well, I've got a full day ahead of me so I'll let you tough guys with your penis extensions (guns) dream about growing up.


Someday you'll figure out that your ego is not what this forum is all about.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> So now your argument is that we shouldn't worry about assault weapons in schools because it could have been bombs?  You have the nerve to call Liberals brain dead?  That's why it's so much fun to expose you knuckleheads for who and what you are.



Okay, so you get rid of so-called assault weapons and the next perpetrator uses a  semi-automatic handgun.  He kills 24 students instead of 26.  Would you be satisfied with those results?  Because let's face it, the only advantages to assault weapons are accuracy and larger capacity magazines.  Accuracy is not an issue when you're firing into a large crowd of people and to change a magazine takes less than 2 seconds if practiced.  So now what do we do? We go after semi-automatic handguns next.  

It's like the great late Rush Limbaugh said so many times:  Folks, I know liberals like I know my own glorious naked body. 

Taking steps to ban one particular group of weapons is only the stepping stone to the next group of weapons.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> So now your argument is that we shouldn't worry about assault weapons in schools because it could have been bombs?  You have the nerve to call Liberals brain dead?  That's why it's so much fun to expose you knuckleheads for who and what you are.



No, the argument is that if somebody wants to kill, stopping them from getting a gun won't stop them from killing.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 22, 2022)

scruffy said:


> The dumbass libs have left orbit. Now they think they can read dead peoples' minds.



Yes they do.  In fact both Trump impeachments were based on mind reading, better known in their Holy Bible as Thought Police.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> And how many students would be saved with knives and not guns being used when some nut blows a fuse?  Silly silly arguments are all you have.



So they don't use a knife.  They use a car instead. Happy now?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> I wasn't talking to you there, Tex.  So hold your horses and calm down before you blow out an artery.



This is a public forum.  Talk to one of us--talk to all.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Are you back for yet another ass kicking?



You never kicked my ass a first time or ever.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 22, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> Means we have a racist GOP Law and Order mess....



Why is that?  Is it the GOP forcing blacks to lead the country in murders?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 22, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Gang activity.  Over half of all homicides are directly related to drug crime and about another 25% to gang activity not associated with drug crime.
> 
> 85% of murders in the Cities could be eliminated by simply attacking the gangs as the terrorist operations that they are.



That goes hand and hand with enforcing and enhancing penalties for breaking our laws in the first place.  

* Illegally carrying a firearm, 7 years minimum prison sentence. 
* Using a firearm in commission of a crime, 15 years minimum prison sentence. 
* Found with a stolen gun, 10 years minimum prison sentence. 
* Assault with a firearm, 20 years minimum prison sentence. 
* Murder with a firearm, automatic death penalty. 

Such penalties would reduce gun crimes by at least 50% or more, gang or no gang.  A felon robbing a store with a stolen gun collectively puts him away for a combined minimum 32 years in prison if we adopted such penalties.  If you got 10 years just for having a stolen gun that dries up the firearms black market because nobody would be buying them.  We would be reducing the amount of guns available to the criminal and not all the people.


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 22, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Law and order is racist? ???
> 
> And what does any of that have to do with the GOP?
> 
> ...


Yeah having more in prison than anyone by far and  the great majority black and brown is great. So is the worst inequality and upward mobility ever by far and having the richest now paying less % in all taxes than middle class is great. So is the GOP base getting the worst fact free brainwash ever!!! No sacrifice is too great to save the greedy lying scumbag GOP megarich...


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Why is that?  Is it the GOP forcing blacks to lead the country in murders?


Yup. Poverty causes crime and the GOP causes poverty. Save the megarich lying GOP scum, super dupe!!!


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> And how many students would be saved with knives and not guns being used whe.n some nut blows a fuse?  Silly silly arguments are all you have.


Yes, let's compare our GOP crap to UK Tory crap!! The worst political parties in the modern world...And the most obnoxious shyttes anywhere. Genius to build the English channel Atlantic etc. Racist arrogant catastrophes forever...


----------



## protectionist (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> What is well regulated about guns through the mail or at gun shows?


What about gun shows ?  You still must undergo a background check.   I bought a gun at a gun show, and I had to wait 3 days, while they did an national database check. And this was when I already had a CCW license.


----------



## BothWings (Mar 22, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...


Indeed, just ask a Ukrainian what he'd need a high capacity magazine for...or would they just prefer that he defend his neighborhood against invaders (with AK47's) with a double barreled shotgun??


----------



## protectionist (Mar 22, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> Racist arrogant catastrophes forever...


1.  Affirmative Action
2.  CRT
3.  Biden's racist American Rescue Plan ( which could be renamed ARP as long as you're not white)


----------



## protectionist (Mar 22, 2022)

BothWings said:


> Indeed, just ask a Ukrainian what he'd need a high capacity magazine for...or would they just prefer that he defend his neighborhood against invaders (with AK47's) with a double barreled shotgun??


Shotgun works good on 1 or 2 attackers. For a group, the high capacity magazine is essential.


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 22, 2022)

protectionist said:


> What about gun shows ?  You still must undergo a background check.   I bought a gun at a gun show, and I had to wait 3 days, while they did an national database check. And this was when I already had a CCW license.


UNFORTUNATELY, not in some states


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 22, 2022)

protectionist said:


> 1.  Affirmative Action
> 2.  CRT
> 3.  Biden's racist American Rescue Plan ( which could be renamed ARP as long as you're not white)


Racism means believing a race is inferior and discriminating against them. The GOP. 99% white conventions...Minorities know.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

protectionist said:


> What about gun shows ?  You still must undergo a background check.   I bought a gun at a gun show, and I had to wait 3 days, while they did an national database check. And this was when I already had a CCW license.


So no special deals are ever made at gun shows?  You are dim.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You never kicked my ass a first time or ever.


Keep telling yourself that while I do it again, clown.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Okay, so you get rid of so-called assault weapons and the next perpetrator uses a  semi-automatic handgun.  He kills 24 students instead of 26.  Would you be satisfied with those results?  Because let's face it, the only advantages to assault weapons are accuracy and larger capacity magazines.  Accuracy is not an issue when you're firing into a large crowd of people and to change a magazine takes less than 2 seconds if practiced.  So now what do we do? We go after semi-automatic handguns next.
> 
> It's like the great late Rush Limbaugh said so many times:  Folks, I know liberals like I know my own glorious naked body.
> 
> Taking steps to ban one particular group of weapons is only the stepping stone to the next group of weapons.


Rush Limbaugh and great don't belong in the same sentence.  He was a fuckin' facist tool just like you.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> That goes hand and hand with enforcing and enhancing penalties for breaking our laws in the first place.
> 
> * Illegally carrying a firearm, 7 years minimum prison sentence.
> * Using a firearm in commission of a crime, 15 years minimum prison sentence.
> ...


Or we could redistribute the money we put into so-called law enforcement and help those caught up in the inner city hopeless life.  We could decriminalize drug possession and immediately ease the violence level considerably. Attack the cause and not just the effect.  But that never crosses your racist mind, does it?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Why is that?  Is it the GOP forcing blacks to lead the country in murders?


You never fail to take the racist side of every argument, do you?  You think every black kid in the ghetto was born a criminal?   And don't forget that white kids in the same circumstance follow the same path.  But you're of course welcome to remain an ignoramus.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So they don't use a knife.  They use a car instead. Happy now?


Situation;  Your kid is at school and the north half the building is being assaulted by an AR wielding nut job and the southern half is being assaulted by a knife wielding nut job.  Where would you want your kid to be?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yes they do.  In fact both Trump impeachments were based on mind reading, better known in their Holy Bible as Thought Police.


Ignorance is your middle name.  So did we Imagine him withholding approved aid to Zelenskyy while Ukraine was under attack?  Did Mueller imagine the ten instances of outright obstruction of Justice on the part of him and his fellow Comrades?  You didn't notice any of that?  LOL


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Someday you'll figure out that your ego is not what this forum is all about.


I know what the vast majority of the right wing morons on here are all about.  Weakness and susceptibility to indoctrination.  Idol worship of a guy who wouldn't piss on the best part of you if you were on fire.  In other words, stupidity.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 22, 2022)

See post # 496


Wickerthing said:


> One of the latest in the school shootings was done by a kid whose parents left it out and even encouraged their idiot son to practice with it.  Those parents would fall into the category of legal possessors of firearms.  Precisely why there needs to be stricter background checks and there needs to be more control over who gets one and what their situation is and the fuckin' sheer numbers and types out there in circulation.  There's a case where a little infringing could have saved some kid's lives.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 22, 2022)

Here's that liberal control delusion again



Wickerthing said:


> Yeah, ain't that a fuckin' shame that we've let it come down to that?  C'mon people.  It's out of control.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> So no special deals are ever made at gun shows?  You are dim.


Special deals are never made on the street?

How dim can you GET, lefty?


----------



## scruffy (Mar 22, 2022)

Racism. The last refuge of frustrated lefties.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Special deals are never made on the street?
> 
> How dim can you GET, lefty?


Did I say that?  Are you so far gone that you are seeing and hearing things in your head?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Racism. The last refuge of frustrated lefties.


Racism is a lie?  There is none?  Are you okay?   I'm worried about nuts like you coming unhinged.  Get a fuckin' grip


----------



## scruffy (Mar 22, 2022)

lol


Wickerthing said:


> Situation;  Your kid is at school and the north half the building is being assaulted by an AR wielding nut job and the southern half is being assaulted by a knife wielding nut job.  Where would you want your kid to be?



I'm sure I'd want my kid to be in the other building, where the kids are being sexually indoctrinated by the libtards. 

Hey Lefty, hear me loud and clear:

GUN CONTROL WONT WORK.

Not now, not ever.

First, it won't accomplish your goal. You implied that your goal was reduction of child shootings in schools. Gun laws will not accomplish that 

Second, you have no more chance of banning guns than you do of banning pot, liquor, or prostitution. Human beings simply will not comply. And you can't make them 

Third, guns are for SELF DEFENSE. If you restrict guns just because some idiot is abusing them, then you're also restricting them for the 99% of normal people who just want to protect their families. In other words you are DAMAGING SOCIETY, and infringing on the natural and political rights of your neighbors.

Hey man, I lived through the Watts riots, Kent State, Rodney King, and BLM. The police can NOT be trusted to protect us.

In the scenario you raised, where are the cops?

In Florida they stood there watching 

In California they ran away

Sorry, a good weapon is mandatory for protection of self and family. That concept is PERMANENTLY written into the highest law in our land. And do recognized in the Heller decision. Which will be shortly incorporated into all 50 states.

And then the leftard DA in St Louis won't be able to charge people for protecting their property anymore. 

Trust me, the leftists DA's are on the way out. Count on it. Bank on it.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

BothWings said:


> Indeed, just ask a Ukrainian what he'd need a high capacity magazine for...or would they just prefer that he defend his neighborhood against invaders (with AK47's) with a double barreled shotgun??


That's what well regulated militias are for.  And that's what armies are for.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Ignorance is your middle name.  So did we Imagine him withholding approved aid to Zelenskyy while Ukraine was under attack?  Did Mueller imagine the ten instances of outright obstruction of Justice on the part of him and his fellow Comrades?  You didn't notice any of that?  LOL



You must have imagined it because I read the transcript of the call at least a dozen times.  Nowhere did Trump even hint at withholding anything.  Now if you disagree with that, post the transcript yet again and show me where Trump told Zelensky he will not receive US aid unless he does X.  GO!


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 22, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> Bullshit. That is not what he said.  Read it again.
> 
> Yes they do and not you or any private citizen has a use for them other than your ego.
> 
> ...


By your definition, and that of many other gun controllers, a revolver is a semi-automatic weapon.  Many law proposals (none passed as of yet that I know of) specifically define a semi-automatic as any weapon that leaves a round ready to fire for the next pull of the trigger after shooting one round.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Situation;  Your kid is at school and the north half the building is being assaulted by an AR wielding nut job and the southern half is being assaulted by a knife wielding nut job.  Where would you want your kid to be?



Okay, your kid is at the north side of the building safe and sound and a guy is running over a group of children standing at the bus stop.  Where would you want your kid to be? 

The largest domestic terrorist attack last year took place with no guns involved.  He was a black guy who went to a white area to kill as many whites as possible.  He injured over 50 and killed 6 including an 8 year old child.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> You never fail to take the racist side of every argument, do you?  You think every black kid in the ghetto was born a criminal?   And don't forget that white kids in the same circumstance follow the same path.  But you're of course welcome to remain an ignoramus.



Statistics can't be racist dummy.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Racism is a lie?  There is none?  Are you okay?   I'm worried about nuts like you coming unhinged.  Get a fuckin' grip


Typical retarded leftie. ^^^

Missed the point entirely. Zero reading comprehension. And then the dumb fucker wants to accuse ME of being a racist just because HE can't read.

This is the way lefties roll today. It's totally typical. The one lefty I've met on this forum who seems to have a brain, is lefter than left, seems to be some kind of Marxist or something. Which dovetails with what I said earlier: the Bernie crowd is way smarter than the partisan DNC dumb shits. They don't know as much about politics, but at least they don't run around calling everyone racists.

People they don't know. Have never met. Aren't even Republican.

But look what comes out of the lefty's mouth: "you're a racist".

No, dummy, we're talking about guns.

Lefties are nuts. They've left orbit, they're floating out in space somewhere.

My post obviously refers to the fact that lefties invoke racism when they have nothing else. They "play the race card".

In the middle of any other conversation.

Here we have a perfect example and a case in point


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Or we could redistribute the money we put into so-called law enforcement and help those caught up in the inner city hopeless life.  We could decriminalize drug possession and immediately ease the violence level considerably. Attack the cause and not just the effect.  But that never crosses your racist mind, does it?



You are completely ignorant.  I remember when they were trying to sell the lottery in my state.  The proponents claimed that having a lottery would take business away from the mob and the money would be used for our schools.  They passed the lottery, and the mob used the states lottery numbers for their games. The difference is they paid more and of course, tax free. 

The states that pushed for legalized pot made the claim it would take pushers off the street.  It did no such thing.  States with legalized marijuana have peopple who are selling their products tax free meaning they are beating out state prices.  

But oh, if we only legalized recreational narcotics.......


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

scruffy said:


> lol
> 
> 
> I'm sure I'd want my kid to be in the other building, where the kids are being sexually indoctrinated by the libtards.
> ...


So we arm teachers with M16's?  THAT'S YOUR BRILLIANT IDEA?  Put some Marines in schools as guards and that begins to make sense.  And cops who are too cowardly to step up at times like those need to go!  That's unfortunately what has happened to law enforcement in America.  Cops are trained as revenue rangers and those being hired are not vetted for mental disorders.   Most are completely ignorant on the Bill of Rights and we have far too many nutjobs with huge egos out there fuckin' with people.  They've become the street gangs that you righties like to point to.  Except they are blue and not black.  They have little to no fear of accountability because they investigate themselves.  Nice deal, eh?


----------



## woodwork201 (Mar 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yep, that's what it says, but remember that people back then talked a little differently than they do today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No; that's not what it says.  "As part of" is nowhere in the Constitution or any Amendments.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Typical retarded leftie. ^^^
> 
> Missed the point entirely. Zero reading comprehension. And then the dumb fucker wants to accuse ME of being a racist just because HE can't read.
> 
> ...


It's you that has a problem with reading comprehension.  I said, are you saying that racism doesn't exist.   But as long as we're talking about right v left, yes, you idiots are mostly closet racists or in many cases, blatant racists.  That's why your party is snow white and that's why your party is constantly on the attack against non white politicians.  You spew hatred against anything that doesn't conform with the status quo.  Everybody is a Marxist and everybody on the left are out to harm America.  Let me remind you of Jan 6.  Those weren't lefties out there. those were dyed in the wool idiot righties too stupid to understand that they are being led by the nose by the real people who pose a threat to America.  Perfect case to dispel the notion that guns aren't just for defending one's home.  Too many fall into the hands of you right wing nut jobs and I'll bet dollars to donuts that the majority of the weapons they brought were purchased legally.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> No; that's not what it says.  "As part of" is nowhere in the Constitution or any Amendments.


Show me a one man militia.  Idiots.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You are completely ignorant.  I remember when they were trying to sell the lottery in my state.  The proponents claimed that having a lottery would take business away from the mob and the money would be used for our schools.  They passed the lottery, and the mob used the states lottery numbers for their games. The difference is they paid more and of course, tax free.
> 
> The states that pushed for legalized pot made the claim it would take pushers off the street.  It did no such thing.  States with legalized marijuana have peopple who are selling their products tax free meaning they are beating out state prices.
> 
> But oh, if we only legalized recreational narcotics.......


If they are tax cheats, we have laws to govern that.  What's your answer genius?  Keep stuffing prisons with addicts and folks who have committed no crimes against people?  At $50-60 grand a year?  No better solutions or use for that money?  I agree that someone in this conversation is ignorant, but unfortunately it's you, gun guy!


----------



## protectionist (Mar 22, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> Racism means believing a race is inferior and discriminating against them. The GOP. 99% white conventions...Minorities know.


That's what Democrats do. Discriminate against whites in Affirmative Action and Biden's American Rescue Plan.  they've been doing it for 58 years.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

scruffy said:


> lol
> 
> 
> I'm sure I'd want my kid to be in the other building, where the kids are being sexually indoctrinated by the libtards.
> ...


So you're on board with partially defunding police to start over with other solutions?  If you are, you are among the tiniest of minorities on the right.  That's what the right is all about.  Define the problems but maintain the staus quo.  And find a way to blame somebody else, preferably a Democrat.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> So no special deals are ever made at gun shows?  You are dim.


I don't respond to Wickerthing. He's not qualified to talk to me.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You never kicked my ass a first time or ever.


He's an idiot. Probably 10 years old.  Not worth your time.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> So we arm teachers with M16's?  THAT'S YOUR BRILLIANT IDEA?  Put some Marines in schools as guards and that begins to make sense.  And cops who are too cowardly to step up at times like those need to go!  That's unfortunately what has happened to law enforcement in America.  Cops are trained as revenue rangers and those being hired are not vetted for mental disorders.   Most are completely ignorant on the Bill of Rights and we have far too many nutjobs with huge egos out there fuckin' with people.  They've become the street gangs that you righties like to point to.  Except they are blue and not black.  They have little to no fear of accountability because they investigate themselves.  Nice deal, eh?


Well, okay. Let's find some common ground. It's a whole lot better than clobbering each other isn't it?

We both want the same thing, don't we? We want to raise our families in peace, we want our kids to be safe, we want our communities to be friendly and safe and strong.

So, let's start broadly. We want our kids to be safe. What does that mean? Well, the immutable reality is that "shit happens". Someone somewhere sometime, is going to go nuts and start killing people, maybe he lost his job or his girlfriend that day, who knows... or flunked a test or getting picked on by his classmates or whatever the situation may be

My starting assumption is "shit happens", and the only part of it that's within our power is how we respond. The Democratic party solution is to try to stop it from happening. By controlling guns and ammo. But that's a non starter, it'll never work in a million years.

There's another way to deal with this. You mentioned teachers with weapons. How about CHILDREN with weapons?

I'm not talking about 5 year olds. But maybe by age 15 (like perhaps, Columbine high school age), a child can be educated well enough to handle a weapon.

See, I'm a leftie from the OLD school. I grew up in Haight Ashbury in the 60's. Back then, we didn't have money for guns because we were spending it all on weed. But, we DID want to fight back against "the Man", who if you'll recall, at the time, was beating our people with clubs on a regular basis, I mean, George Floyd is a nothing burger compared to some of the stuff that happened back then.

So we would look for "means other than guns" to get back at the cops. For example, the cops were tapping phones back then, and my dad showed me how to send 600 volts back up the line to fry the ears of whoever was listening. You know, we had the Anarchist Cookbook, all kinds of stuff like that - available for cheap at your local Border's bookstore.

So, on the assumption that "shit happens", and the cops won't handle the threat, it seems logical to me that handling the threat lands in OUR lap. ("Our" being whoever's there, at the scene).

And that being the case, it also seems logical that trained and competent (and therefore confident) kids will do a lot better than ignorant and untrained (and therefore frightened) kids.

I went to a private high school, which the year before I started was still a military school. They had an actual armory, with real weapons, and all us kids were taught how to shoot. Starting about age 12. We never had ANY problems, none at all.

I think, that crazy people are going to be crazy. Can't stop em. Shit happens.

My best solution is to PREPARE FOR IT, rather than cowering from it


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

protectionist said:


> That's what Democrats do. Discriminate against whites in Affirmative Action and Biden's American Rescue Plan.  they've been doing it for 58 years.


Yeah, and there's no way to quantify how many young black folks have chosen the right path because of that hand up.  Take that away and you'll have more black crime to piss and moan about and blame on somebody else.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 22, 2022)

protectionist said:


> He's an idiot. Probably 10 years old.  Not worth your time.


I'm probably older than you are and I've probably had more life experience than you'll ever have.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> If they are tax cheats, we have laws to govern that.  What's your answer genius?  Keep stuffing prisons with addicts and folks who have committed no crimes against people?  At $50-60 grand a year?  No better solutions or use for that money?  I agree that someone in this conversation is ignorant, but unfortunately it's you, gun guy!



What you do is stop drugs from entering the country, and you can't do it electing idiots like Joe Dementia.  Those people are not just tax cheats, they are mobsters and drug dealers.  You don't try to put out a fire by pouring gasoline on it.  Making dangerous narcotics will not stop the black market.  All it will do is make more drug addicts out of our people.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 22, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> Yeah having more in prison than anyone by far and  the great majority black and brown is great. So is the worst inequality and upward mobility ever by far and having the richest now paying less % in all taxes than middle class is great. So is the GOP base getting the worst fact free brainwash ever!!! No sacrifice is too great to save the greedy lying scumbag GOP megarich...


You do the crime...you do the time. Blacks do the crime.  Blacks do the time.

Who told you >>  _"the richest now paying less % in all taxes than middle class"_ ?  More CNN misinformation ?  The richest pay about twice the %  as the middle class.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 22, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> I'm probably older than you are and I've probably had more life experience than you'll ever have.


I'll be 76 next month junior. You are 10.

You have NO life experience compared to me.  I painted 2 paintings this month, and gave 3 violin recitals, as well as 2 classic rock guitar concerts.  And you played songs on your cell phone that your mommy gave you.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Well, okay. Let's find some common ground. It's a whole lot better than clobbering each other isn't it?
> 
> We both want the same thing, don't we? We want to raise our families in peace, we want our kids to be safe, we want our communities to be friendly and safe and strong.
> 
> ...


I grew up in the 50's and sixties.  I'm a retired Marine who fought in Vietnam in 1968-69.  I was wounded in combat.  I know a lot about weapons of war and they have no place in society.  But you want to give them to teenagers?  That's what you've come up with?  Okay partner.  I guess we are worlds apart here and I cannot support those kind of ideas.  Kids are kids, no matter how well they can shoot.  Arm kids in schools and watch the death toll rise like crazy.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 23, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> Yup. Poverty causes crime and the GOP causes poverty. Save the megarich lying GOP scum, super dupe!!!


Actually, the Democrats cause poverty.  Republicans eradicate it.  During the Trump administration >>
5. created 10 million jobs in 4 months, created over 400,000 manufacturing jobs,
6. unemployment claims hit 50 year low, 
7. lowest unemployment for blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and disabled in US history, 
8. lowest unemployment for women in over 70 years,
9. lowest unemployment rate ever recorded for Americans without a high school diploma,
10. 4 million Americans off food stamps,
11. vocational training topped 4 million - highest ever,
12. highest median wage in US history . 
15. reformed the Medicare program to stop hospitals from overcharging low-income seniors on their drugs—saving seniors hundreds of millions of dollars,
34. created 8,700 Opportunity Zones with investment incentives for companies to invest in distressed communities
54.  Presided over the largest GDP growth (33.1%) in US history.
55.  Got $ 250 Million/year to black colleges.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> I grew up in the 50's and sixties.  I'm a retired Marine who fought in Vietnam in 1968-69.  I was wounded in combat.  I know a lot about weapons of war and they have no place in society.  But you want to give them to teenagers?  That's what you've come up with?  Okay partner.  I guess we are worlds apart here and I cannot support those kind of ideas.  Kids are kids, no matter how well they can shoot.  Arm kids in schools and watch the death toll rise like crazy.


1.  You're 10 years old, in the 4th grade. you got left back last year for being a dummy, and a wise guy.  You couldn't play a musical instrument if your life depended on it. It takes brains, hard work, determination, & stick-to-itiveness.

2. When the hell did I ever say I wanted to give guns to teenagers. ? 
Dreaming here huh ?

3.And why did you fight in Vietnam ? You think that makes you some kind of a hero ? Shooting bullets at people who never attacked you or your country. Never threatened the US, Never even said an unkind word about us. And when you showed up there, they probably didn't even have the foggiest idea who the hell you were, let alone why you might be shooting at them.
I served 6 years in the military (Army) - 2 years US +4 more years Army National Guard. My job was to guard this nation from attack here, not go halfway around the world picking fights with people for no reason.
I resolved at a young age, that if I was ever going to fire my M-14 at anybody, I damn well better have a good reason.  Vietnam didnt have that reason.  If it would have been the al Qaeda OR ISIS ragheads, I would have had no qualms.


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 23, 2022)

protectionist said:


> You do the crime...you do the time. Blacks do the crime.  Blacks do the time.
> 
> Who told you >>  _"the richest now paying less % in all taxes than middle class"_ ?  More CNN misinformation ?  The richest pay about twice the %  as the middle class.
> 
> That's all you know, the fed income taView attachment 619836


That's the brainwash, the fed income tax. Every other tax hits regular people harder DUH...


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> What you do is stop drugs from entering the country, and you can't do it electing idiots like Joe Dementia.  Those people are not just tax cheats, they are mobsters and drug dealers.  You don't try to put out a fire by pouring gasoline on it.  Making dangerous narcotics will not stop the black market.  All it will do is make more drug addicts out of our people.


Where do you suppose the majority of drugs enter the US?  Mexicans sneaking across the border?   That's what Trump thought.  Build a monument to stupidity and plaster his name on it to feed his sick ego.  That was his idea.  I don't advocate making drugs or the black market.  Quite the contrary.  Regulate recreational drugs and educate on their use.  Kids are gonna experiment no matter what.  Let them do so safely.  My great niece died recently of a designer drug with Fentanyl.  What the left is proposing is taking away some of the fuel that kills and educate on the dangers of all drugs.  If teens have to sneak around to experiment they are far more likely to use an unknown drug from an unknown source.


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 23, 2022)

protectionist said:


> You do the crime...you do the time. Blacks do the crime.  Blacks do the time.
> 
> Who told you >>  _"the richest now paying less % in all taxes than middle class"_ ?  More CNN misinformation ?  The richest pay about twice the %  as the middle class.
> 
> View attachment 619836


Needs to be at least 50% top rate, what Reagan dropped it to and had success...


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

protectionist said:


> 1.  You're 10 years old, in the 4th grade. you got left back last year for being a dummy, and a wise guy.  You couldn't play a musical instrument if your life depended on it. It takes brains, hard work, determination, & stick-to-itiveness.
> 
> 2. When the hell did I ever say I wanted to give guns to teenagers. ?
> Dreaming here huh ?


Do you get easily confused?  It happens.  I forgive you.  I wasn't talking to you about guns to teenagers I was talking to Scruffy.  I could tear you a new one and it would be so easy but I'm not gonna stoop as low as you often do.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> So you're on board with partially defunding police to start over with other solutions?  If you are, you are among the tiniest of minorities on the right.  That's what the right is all about.  Define the problems but maintain the staus quo.  And find a way to blame somebody else, preferably a Democrat.


I'm not on the right.

I'm "temporarily" aligning with the right till the fucktard progressives vacate the premises. The same way I temporarily aligned with the left when the Neo-Cons we're in power. Neo-Libs are exactly like Neo-Cons. Birds of a feather. Two peas in a pod. I hate them both and I want them gone. Out of power. Out of politics.

Personally I think we should defund the FBI. By at least 50%. Those idiots are worthless. They're a waste of taxpayer money.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Do you get easily confused?  It happens.  I forgive you.  I wasn't talking to you about guns to teenagers I was talking to Scruffy.  I could tear you a new one and it would be so easy but I'm not gonna stoop as low as you often do.


Don't want to respond to my # 3 of Post # 565, huh?  Doesn't surprise me, Mr DODGE.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 23, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> Yeah having more in prison than anyone by far and  the great majority black and brown is great. So is the worst inequality and upward mobility ever by far and having the richest now paying less % in all taxes than middle class is great. So is the GOP base getting the worst fact free brainwash ever!!! No sacrifice is too great to save the greedy lying scumbag GOP megarich...


Looking over the tax rates during presidential admins, going back to Eisenhower in the 50s, Republicans have had much higher taxes on the rich than Democrats.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> So no special deals are ever made at gun shows?  You are dim.


"special" deals can be made anywhere, at any time. Life is that way.  Are you 10 ?


----------



## protectionist (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Keep telling yourself that while I do it again, clown.


HA HA.   More of those dreams


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Don't want to respond to my # 3 of Post # 565, huh?  Doesn't surprise me, Mr DODGE.


You're the right age there hero.  What did you do to get out of going to Vietnam. Did you pull a Trump and fake a medical condition or were you just a coward because that's who you are?  My country calls and I go.  Did you file as a conscientious objector?


----------



## protectionist (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Rush Limbaugh and great don't belong in the same sentence.  He was a fuckin' facist tool just like you.


I hated Rush when I was a far-left Democrat.  I came to realize what a great man he was, in later, more focused years.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

protectionist said:


> "special" deals can be made anywhere, at any time. Life is that way.  Are you 10 ?


You like that 10 thing a whole lot .  Maybe too much.  Projecting?  Because you come across as a childish fool with a child's mind.  Dementia setting in?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

protectionist said:


> I hated Rush when I was a far-left Democrat.  I came to realize what a great man he was, in later, more focused years.


Let me guess, it was right about at the time that Trump was elected, right?


----------



## protectionist (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> You're the right age there hero.  What did you do to get out of going to Vietnam. Did you pull a Trump and fake a medical condition or were you just a coward because that's who you are?  My country calls and I go.  Did you file as a conscientious objector?


You say that as if going to Vietnam was a GOOD thing.  It was BAD, you idiot.

Your country calls, you go.  You're an idiot.  So if you were a Russian, and your country told you to fire missles at Ukrainian hospitals and schools, you do it. This is what is wrong with the world. Too many idiots.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

protectionist said:


> HA HA.   More of those dreams


Little cartoons?  That's about your mental age.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Let me guess, it was right about at the time that Trump was elected, right?


Wrong. I switched from Green to independent in 2003 (still voted for Kerry and Obama once)  Started voting Republican in 2012 (for Virgil Goode)


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

protectionist said:


> You say that as if going to Vietnam was a GOOD thing.  It was BAD, you idiot.
> 
> Your country calls, you go.  You're an idiot.  So if you were a Russian, and your country told you to fire missles at Ukrainian hospitals and schools, you do it. This is what is wrong with the world. Too many idiots.


Answer the question.  How did you avoid going and how did you serve in the army without going?


----------



## protectionist (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> You like that 10 thing a whole lot .  Maybe too much.  Projecting?  Because you come across as a childish fool with a child's mind.  Dementia setting in?


That's exactly what your ego overflowing post right here, looks like.  HA HA


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

protectionist said:


> I hated Rush when I was a far-left Democrat.  I came to realize what a great man he was, in later, more focused years.


Just shows you got dumber over the years.  It happens to geezers.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

protectionist said:


> That's exactly what your ego overflowing post right here, looks like.  HA HA


Ha Ha?  At least you dropped the cartoons.  That's progress.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Wrong. I switched from Green to independent in 2003 (still voted for Kerry and Obama once)  Started voting Republican in 2012 (for Virgil Goode)


Did you vote for Trump?


----------



## protectionist (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Answer the question.  How did you avoid going and how did you serve in the army without going?


What do you mean "how"  ?  You think every person in the military in the 60s, went to Vietnam ? Are you dumb ?  Thousands of military served in all branches then without ever going to Vietnam, or anywhere outside the US.

And if I had avoided going to Vietnam, I would proud to say so.  I wouldn't be proud to say I went around shooting at innocent people who never attacked me first, that's for sure. Only lamebrain idiots do that.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Did you vote for Trump?


3 times, and in 2024, it will be 4.   ..and you're probably too dumb to do that.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> I grew up in the 50's and sixties.  I'm a retired Marine who fought in Vietnam in 1968-69.  I was wounded in combat.  I know a lot about weapons of war and they have no place in society.  But you want to give them to teenagers?  That's what you've come up with?  Okay partner.  I guess we are worlds apart here and I cannot support those kind of ideas.  Kids are kids, no matter how well they can shoot.  Arm kids in schools and watch the death toll rise like crazy.


Couple of remarks here - first, we've been training kids with weapons since time immemorial. It's nothing new. But school shootings are relatively new.

Second, every one of the school shooters was on antidepressants. Every one, no exceptions. It's the common denominator.

Third, any ten year old can buy a whole range of deadly weapons at Wal-Mart. If you take away their guns they're going to start building nail bombs


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

protectionist said:


> You say that as if going to Vietnam was a GOOD thing.  It was BAD, you idiot.
> 
> Your country calls, you go.  You're an idiot.  So if you were a Russian, and your country told you to fire missles at Ukrainian hospitals and schools, you do it. This is what is wrong with the world. Too many idiots.


You're very silly man.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Couple of remarks here - first, we've been training kids with weapons since time immemorial. It's nothing new. But school shootings are relatively new.
> 
> Second, every one of the school shooters was on antidepressants. Every one, no exceptions. It's the common denominator.
> 
> Third, any ten year old can buy a whole range of deadly weapons at Wal-Mart. If you take away their guns they're going to start building nail bombs


You just helped me to further define the problem.  A 10 year old can get a deadly weapon at Walmart.  A little overstated but rings of truth.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

protectionist said:


> 3 times, and in 2024, it will be 4.   ..and you're probably too dumb to do that.


That explains a lot of things.  You're completely indoctrinated by a nutjob.  And you can't see a tyrant even when he is telling you that is what he is.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Couple of remarks here - first, we've been training kids with weapons since time immemorial. It's nothing new. But school shootings are relatively new.
> 
> Second, every one of the school shooters was on antidepressants. Every one, no exceptions. It's the common denominator.
> 
> Third, any ten year old can buy a whole range of deadly weapons at Wal-Mart. If you take away their guns they're going to start building nail bombs


You have a right to your views and I've gotta respect that.  Let's just agree to disagree as they say.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> That explains a lot of things.  You're completely indoctrinated by a nutjob.  And you can't see a tyrant even when he is telling you that is what he is.





protectionist said:


> 3 times, and in 2024, it will be 4.   ..and you're probably too dumb to do that.


I won't turn you in for voting 3 times.  But I'd be careful if I was you.  Like I said, a very silly man.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 23, 2022)

Let's discuss the TOPIC >>
 the first word of the title of the OP is >> Biden.

*Biden -  B*iggest *I*diot* D*emocrats *E*ver *N*ominated


----------



## scruffy (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> You just helped me to further define the problem.  A 10 year old can get a deadly weapon at Walmart.  A little overstated but rings of truth.


Sure. Are you going to outlaw propane, and hair spray, and boxes of contractors nails, and baking soda, and Windex... I mean, it's a LONG list. You're going to outlaw all that stuff?

Yes. My point is, no one needs a gun, to kill another human being. Even a ten year old could do it, with off the shelf products purchased at any general store. Where there's a will, there's a way.

Banning guns won't help, it'll just disable the protectors. Which is the one group you don't want to disable


----------



## scruffy (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> I won't turn you in for voting 3 times.  But I'd be careful if I was you.  Like I said, a very silly man.


lol

Two generals and a primary?

Yeah, be careful. Snitches can be wrong too.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> You just helped me to further define the problem.  A 10 year old can get a deadly weapon at Walmart.  A little overstated but rings of truth.


Not a firearm.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

scruffy said:


> lol
> 
> Two generals and a primary?
> 
> Yeah, be careful. Snitches can be wrong too.


Touche'


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Second, every one of the school shooters was on antidepressants. Every one, no exceptions. It's the common denominator.


That isn't true although a good many have been.  The vast majority are or were at some point on various drugs for psychiatric conditions.

Don't blame the medication, take a look at why they were prescribed it.

Most of these shooters give clear warning signs days, weeks, or months ahead of perpetrating their acts.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

protectionist said:


> So if you were a Russian, and your country told you to fire missles at Ukrainian hospitals and schools, you do it.


That's true for Russians but that's never an excuse if you're serving in the US Armed Forces.  Both you and the commander can be tried for murder and war crimes if you do.

We have an affirmative obligation to refuse unlawful orders and report them up the chain of command.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Sure. Are you going to outlaw propane, and hair spray, and boxes of contractors nails, and baking soda, and Windex... I mean, it's a LONG list. You're going to outlaw all that stuff?
> 
> Yes. My point is, no one needs a gun, to kill another human being. Even a ten year old could do it, with off the shelf products purchased at any general store. Where there's a will, there's a way.
> 
> Banning guns won't help, it'll just disable the protectors. Which is the one group you don't want to disable


As I said.  What we have here is an immovable object meeting an irresistible force.  And the next time there's a mass school window cleaning I'll agree with you.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

protectionist said:


> I hated Rush when I was a far-left Democrat.  I came to realize what a great man he was, in later, more focused years.


Becoming a conservative is a growth process, all you need to do to become a democrat is to learn not to think.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> As I said.  What we have here is an immovable object meeting an irresistible force.  And the next time there's a mass school window cleaning I'll agree with you.


Your claim was that a 10yo can buy a "deadly Weapon at WalMart".

Now you revert back to firearms.

You know a 10yo cannot legally buy a firearm or possess one lawfully without supervision so why are you being dishonest again?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Rush Limbaugh and great don't belong in the same sentence.  He was a fuckin' facist tool just like you.


You're the one talking about stripping us of our most basic rights.  It wasn't Rush who is a fascist, check your mirror.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Not a firearm.


Overstated in the fact that parents can buy guns and leave them available to kids.  Happens all the time.  


protectionist said:


> Let's discuss the TOPIC >>
> the first word of the title of the OP is >> Biden.
> 
> *Biden -  B*iggest *I*diot* D*emocrats *E*ver *N*ominated



How clever of you.  Childish, but clever.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

scruffy said:


> The grand liberal delusion
> 
> "We" can control it
> 
> ...


They went in a couple of short generations from being, "The Party of Civil Rights" to being the party of stripping us of our rights.

That's when they lost me and millions of other Americans who had voted democratic for most of a century.

When the party left us we found Reagan and a new home.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Overstated in the fact that parents can buy guns and leave them available to kids.  Happens all t
> 
> 
> How clever of you.  Childish, but clever.


You lied and you know it.  Now admit it and we can move on.

Parents can leave the car keys accessible to their kids too, it happens all the time.

What that shows is that parents fail in their most basic duty as parents, to raise kids who don't steal cars or raid the gun cabinet for fun or to commit a crime.

When they do either, hold the parents criminally and civilly responsible and parents will start doing a better job of securing them.

Of course, then we'll also have a lot more cases of kids being victimized when they are the victims of home invasions and they can't defend themselves.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Touche'


I have some redneck friends that like to play paintball. They do it kind of real, "as if" they were after a shooter. Playing this game they learn basic tactics, and they even get an introduction to strategy.

Remember the duck-and-cover drills in the 60's? One practices so it takes 5 seconds instead of 30. Same if you're up against a shooter, it helps to have a few choices for the "how" of it.

Now, someone to the left of John Birch might say the shooter deserves a fair trial. I'm not one of those people. If you're shooting at my child, you will die on the spot. I will be your judge, jury, and executioner. Everyone needs to understand very clearly, that shooting at children means instant death. There won't be any showboat trials where the lawyers can claim innocence because ... because because.

If more people thought this way, we wouldn't have any school shootings.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

> Desert Texan said:
> The facts show no such thing.
> 
> *What exactly in their backgrounds would prevent them from passing your fantasy "enhanced background checks".*
> ...





Wickerthing said:


> What would a Trumper know about facts?  LOL


still waiting for a straight, honest answer.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Show me a one man militia.  Idiots.


Back to this dishonest schtick?

The "Right of The People", belongs to THE PEOPLE, not the militia and you know it.

What is that right?  The Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

There is nothing on the constitution, nor in constitutional history supporting your claim which of course why that argument was utterly destroyed by the Heller Decision.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

scruffy said:


> I have some redneck friends that like to play paintball. They do it kind of real, "as if" they were after a shooter. Playing this game they learn basic tactics, and they even get an introduction to strategy.
> 
> Remember the duck-and-cover drills in the 60's? One practices so it takes 5 seconds instead of 30. Same if you're up against a shooter, it helps to have a few choices for the "how" of it.
> 
> ...


The problem there is that you end up being the one convicted or murder instead of the school shooter.

You can't put the bullets back in his gun, but you can temper your rage so you'll be with your family at the hospital or funeral and there to support them after instead of prison.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> You're the one talking about stripping us of our most basic rights.  It wasn't Rush who is a fascist, check your mirror.


And it's your party that wants to limit voting across the country and are active in doing so. And it's your party that have been the constant apologists for the madman who set forward an insurrection attempt.  As I've said often on this forum, I'm not in love with any politician and certainly no talking head bag of wind like Limbaugh. Especially those who spread Trump's poison.  I'll leave all that Fox, OAN stuff to you willfully deaf and blind people.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Special deals are never made on the street?
> 
> How dim can you GET, lefty?


Even at gun shows if you buy from a licensed dealer you must go through a background check.

It's a lie they just keep peddling.

Any state can also require a background check for all private transfers if they choose to and are willing to provide access to the NICS system or a state system mirroring same.

They don't though.

That tells you it not about safety or public interest, it's all about gun control and making it as hard as possible to legally possess or bear them.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> And it's your party that wants to limit voting across the country and are active in doing so. And it's your party that have been the constant apologists for the madman who set forward an insurrection attempt.  As I've said often on this forum, I'm not in love with any politician and certainly no talking head bag of wind like Limbaugh. Especially those who spread Trump's poison.  I'll leave all that Fox, OAN stuff to you willfully deaf and blind people.


Damned right, we want to limit it to only legally eligible citizens and to limit the easiest means of committing voter and voter registration fraud.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> It's you that has a problem with reading comprehension. I said, are you saying that racism doesn't exist.


Which of course is yet another lie.  Seriously, are you incapable of telling the truth at all?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> And it's your party that wants to limit voting across the country and are active in doing so. And it's your party that have been the constant apologists for the madman who set forward an insurrection attempt.  As I've said often on this forum, I'm not in love with any politician and certainly no talking head bag of wind like Limbaugh. *Especially those who spread Trump's poison.*  I'll leave all that Fox, OAN stuff to you willfully deaf and blind people.


Poison is all you have to offer.  Are you really trying to emulate Trump?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Back to this dishonest schtick?
> 
> The "Right of The People", belongs to THE PEOPLE, not the militia and you know it.
> 
> ...


Again, show me a one man militia.  Why would the founders even include the terms Militia and Regulated if what was meant was that everyone can bear arms.  Did their words include the mentally ill or the 8 yr olds?  You just keep getting sillier and sillier.  And the term "being necessary to a free state." How does that square with an individual?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Poison is all you have to offer.  Are you really trying to emulate Trump?


At least I got you to say Trumpism is poisonous.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Again, show me a one man militia.  Why would the founders even include the terms Militia and Regulated if what was meant was that everyone can bear arms.  Did their words include the mentally ill or the 8 yr olds?  You just keep getting sillier and sillier.  And the term "being necessary to a free state." How does that square with an individual?


Just be honest for a moment.  Have you ever read the Heller Decision opinion by Scalia?

Were there too many big words there for you?

"Who are the militia?  Every man capable of bearing arms".


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> At least I got you to say Trumpism is poisonous.


Why are you lying again?  Is it an uncontrollable reflex?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Which of course is yet another lie.  Seriously, are you incapable of telling the truth at all?


No.  I didn't attend Trump U.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Again, show me a one man militia.  Why would the founders even include the terms Militia and Regulated if what was meant was that everyone can bear arms.  Did their words include the mentally ill or the 8 yr olds?  You just keep getting sillier and sillier.  And the term "being necessary to a free state." How does that square with an individual?


"Regulated": A well regulated clock keeps proper time, a well regulated walking horse keeps a perfect gait".

The Militia, not arms and not, "The People" is to be regulated meaning to operate properly and as designed.

That isn't possible for the Unorganized Militia unless they have in their possession already everything they need to show up and do battle as a light infantryman, which includes, "Arms", and to then be well familiarized and disciplined in their use.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Just be honest for a moment.  Have you ever read the Heller Decision opinion by Scalia?
> 
> Were there too many big words there for you?
> 
> "Who are the militia?  Every man capable of bearing arms".


Again, an opinion.  Scalia ?  Just another righty toad.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Again, an opinion.  Scalia ?  Just another righty toad.


It was a majority decision you nitwit and the arguments of both sides are included in the opinion.

Try something new, pull your head out of your ass and learn something for a change by reading it.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> "Regulated": A well regulated clock keeps proper time, a well regulated walking horse keeps a perfect gait".
> 
> The Militia, not arms and not, "The People" is to be regulated meaning to operate properly and as designed.
> 
> That isn't possible for the Unorganized Militia unless they have in their possession already everything they need to show up and do battle as a light infantryman, which includes, "Arms", and to then be well familiarized and disciplined in their use.


And does everyone who wants a gun automatically qualify as disciplined in its use?  That's where more severe vetting comes to play.  The wimpy background checks we have now are obviously not working.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> It was a majority decision you nitwit and the arguments of both sides are included in the opinion.
> 
> Try something new, pull your head out of your ass and learn something for a change by reading it.


And you're just a redneck moron who can't see beyond the illusion that he's a  tough guy.  You're not.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

I'll bet you're one of those jack offs who wears a cowboy hat.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> And does everyone who wants a gun automatically qualify as disciplined in its use?  That's where more severe vetting comes to play.  The wimpy background checks we have now are obviously not working.


Again more dishonesty.

You can't become skilled and disciplined in the use of arms without having them.

Those who commit crimes with them can be properly dealt with.

The world is not a rubber room where we can eliminate all risk.  We have therefore to as individuals manage and mitigate those risks and our constitution gives us the ability to do so.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> That's where more severe vetting comes to play. The wimpy background checks we have now are obviously not working.


You keep bringing this up but always dodge or run when asked to expound.

What are the requirements for these background checks?

Lay it out for us.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> I'll bet you're one of those jack offs who wears a cowboy hat.





Wickerthing said:


> And you're just a redneck moron who can't see beyond the illusion that he's a  tough guy.  You're not.



As usual, totally wrong and completely baseless.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Again more dishonesty.
> 
> You can't become skilled and disciplined in the use of arms without having them.
> 
> ...


Tell us more,  professor.  What percentage of gun carriers are proficient or even not clumsy with the weapons they already have.  No necessary training and no idea of their current mental state.  But you tough guys would probably be firmly against that as a prerequisite to ownership for Everyone.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> I'll bet you're one of those jack offs who wears a cowboy hat.





Wickerthing said:


> Tell us more,  professor.  What percentage of gun carriers are proficient or even not clumsy with the weapons they already have.  No necessary training and no idea of their current mental state.  But you tough guys would probably be firmly against that as a prerequisite to ownership for Everyone.


Again another false premise.

The Constution does not mandate any level of proficiency.

It protects The Right to keep and Bear, there are no prerequisites.

Right or wrong they simply expected the average citizen was capable of and willing to become proficient and disciplined in their use.

If/when they are called up for training or defense, those skills can be evaluated.  Those lacking them can be cooks and ammo bearers.  

The Bill of Rights does not include any prior restraint, in fact it protects against it.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

Wel, Tex, I'm gonna put up my horse for the night and hit the hay.  Y'all try not to be such an obvious fool tomorrow. Careful with that six shooter, that sucker doesn't adjust automatically for fools.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Wel, Tex, I'm gonna put up my horse for the night and hit the hay.  Y'all try not to be such an obvious fool tomorrow. Careful with that six shooter, that sucker doesn't adjust automatically for fools.


Dumber than usual.  I don't own any six guns.  My revolvers are all 5 Rounders and I mostly carry semi autos all of which hold 12-19rds except for the 1911's.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Again another false premise.
> 
> The Constution does not mandate any level of proficiency.
> 
> ...


Now how did I guess you'd say that?  ESP?  LOL  Just take that there gun and point that sucker and try not to shoot papa Y'all!   LOL


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Dumber than usual.  I don't own any six guns.  My revolvers are all 5 Rounders and I mostly carry semi autos all of which hold 12-19rds except for the 1911's.


Well, isn't that special.  News for ya though Tex, no matter how many guns y'all have it won't make yer dick any bigger.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Back to this dishonest schtick?
> 
> The "Right of The People", belongs to THE PEOPLE, not the militia and you know it.
> 
> ...


Thank you.

Our Constitution is exceedingly clear.

It says, the *right of the People to keep and bear arms shall NOT be infringed*.

It means exactly what it says 

I have a GUARANTEED political right to keep weapons, and to carry weapons.

Anyone who tries to take away my guns or restrict me (in any way) from possessing them is VIOLATING MY CIVIL RIGHTS. 

Just the same as if they were preventing me from voting. Or discriminating against me based on race.


----------



## BothWings (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> That's what well regulated militias are for.  And that's what armies are for.



Yes, and there is no reason to stop there and keep individuals unarmed unless deputized. You know damn well a homeowner could be robbed and dead well before the police arrive so dony go there. Poland was also in that same boat. The Polish underground Army were a bunch of armed citizens who organized as a militia under a government in exile against the Nazis. But there was nothing forbidding the average citizen from having a rifle as good as the invaders had. He didn't have to have permission as long as he was fighting on the right. 

Nobody came around and said "Ok. The commander says you can't ha e your rifle today but you can have it tomorrow." They were armed,.period.....with the best of what they could obtain at the time.


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 23, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Looking over the tax rates during presidential admins, going back to Eisenhower in the 50s, Republicans have had much higher taxes on the rich than Democrats.


90% was the top rate under Ike, 70 under JFK. Reagan cut it to 50 and had success, then going out the door he cut it to 28% and screwed everyone BUT the rich, You are clueless as always, super duper....Ike was an Indie who warned us about the greedy warmongering GOP swine....


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 23, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Our Constitution is exceedingly clear.
> 
> ...


I'll go with the Supremes thanks....And a ban on new military style and with background checks, nutjob.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Our Constitution is exceedingly clear.
> 
> ...





scruffy said:


> I have some redneck friends that like to play paintball. They do it kind of real, "as if" they were after a shooter. Playing this game they learn basic tactics, and they even get an introduction to strategy.
> 
> Remember the duck-and-cover drills in the 60's? One practices so it takes 5 seconds instead of 30. Same if you're up against a shooter, it helps to have a few choices for the "how" of it.
> 
> ...


You're talking to a combat Marine.  I don't need lessons on the proper use of firearms.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

BothWings said:


> Yes, and there is no reason to stop there and keep individuals unarmed unless deputized. You know damn well a homeowner could be robbed and dead well before the police arrive so dony go there. Poland was also in that same boat. The Polish underground Army were a bunch of armed citizens who organized as a militia under a government in exile against the Nazis. But there was nothing forbidding the average citizen from having a rifle as good as the invaders had. He didn't have to have permission as long as he was fighting on the right.
> 
> Nobody came around and said "Ok. The commander says you can't ha e your rifle today but you can have it tomorrow." They were armed,.period.....with the best of what they could obtain at the time.


Typical BS about "They're trying to take away all of our guns!    What we are saying is that there should be extensive vetting and training in the use and the safe storage of guns.  We are also saying that you don't need an assault weapon to ward off threats in your home.  And that the misuse and the care and control has to be strictly enforced.  Too often they wind up in the hands of lunatics or kids with severe mental problems.  To own a gun should come with very serious responsibility.  It's not an all or nothing thing.  It's let's try to limit the astounding amount of guns out there.  There has to be some middle ground somewhere.    But you're not gonna change my mind and I'm not gonna change yours.  So let's leave it at that. Nothing's gonna get accomplished with screaming at one another.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Our Constitution is exceedingly clear.
> 
> ...


If the matter was a settled issue and so clear, there wouldn't have been a 5-4 decision in 2008.  The right argued the amendment as written and the left argued state's rights.  It will be revisited at some point and with the proliferation of guns, there may be a diffent take on it.  Somethings gotta give.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> 90% was the top rate under Ike, 70 under JFK. Reagan cut it to 50 and had success, then going out the door he cut it to 28% and screwed everyone BUT the rich, You are clueless as always, super duper....Ike was an Indie who warned us about the greedy warmongering GOP swine....


Yeah, but all you hear from the right is that the almost pornographic income gap is simply a naturally occurring phenomenon.  Apparently there is no cause and effect recognized by a lot of the folks getting royally screwed.   And they will fight like hell to make that point as the gap yawns wider.  This country was stupid a long time before Trump shined a light on it.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, but all you hear from the right is that the almost pornographic income gap is simply a naturally occurring phenomenon.  Apparently there is no cause and effect recognized by a lot of the folks getting royally screwed.   And they will fight like hell to make that point as the gap yawns wider.  This country was stupid a long time before Trump shined a light on it.


It doesn't matter how much money someone else has, it has zero effect on what anyone else has US Currency is not a fixed, more money gets printed every day.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> If the matter was a settled issue and so clear, there wouldn't have been a 5-4 decision in 2008.  The right argued the amendment as written and the left argued state's rights.  It will be revisited at some point and with the proliferation of guns, there may be a diffent take on it.  Somethings gotta give.



Put violent criminals away for sentences long enough to ensure they never harm the public again.

Problem solved and nobody's rights get violated.

You will never solve the problem of violent crime or significantly reduce it without starting there.

Guns don't create crime or criminals, actions do.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> If the matter was a settled issue and so clear, there wouldn't have been a 5-4 decision in 2008.  The right argued the amendment as written and the left argued state's rights.  It will be revisited at some point and with the proliferation of guns, there may be a diffent take on it.  Somethings gotta give.


So a SCOTUS Ruling is no longer Settled Law?

Do you really want that as the new legal standard in the US?

Stare Decisis would immediately be thrown out the window if that's the case.


----------



## BothWings (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Typical BS about "They're trying to take away all of our guns!    What we are saying is that there should be extensive vetting and training in the use and the safe storage of guns.  We are also saying that you don't need an assault weapon to ward off threats in your home.  And that the misuse and the care and control has to be strictly enforced.  Too often they wind up in the hands of lunatics or kids with severe mental problems.  To own a gun should come with very serious responsibility.  It's not an all or nothing thing.  It's let's try to limit the astounding amount of guns out there.  There has to be some middle ground somewhere.    But you're not gonna change my mind and I'm not gonna change yours.  So let's leave it at that. Nothing's gonna get accomplished with screaming at one another.


 
You're sitting there telling me what I need and don't need to defend myself. If things got crazy and police didn't have things under control, I want the best of what I can get to defend my home and perimeter. Americans have owned semi-automatic rifles for all purposes since they were available. Gun violence is something that has only spiked.to alarming proportions due to the prevalence of mental health issues and population, not so much the availability of guns or the types of guns available. Also blunderous social programs like.Prohibition also created the spikes of violence in America's history. Not the availability of guns so much. 

You clearly are not very educated about guns. I own an AK47. Would that be the first thing I'd grab for something that went bump in the night? No way! I have handguns, both revolvers and semiautos. I have a shotgun. I keep a few of them at the ready and the rest.locked up. And a mistake with any of them could be deadly. It doesn't matter how many bullets the magazine holds. One ill-placed shot from any gun can mean tragedy. If youre worried about safety, believe it or not my revolvers and my AK are the safest guns I own because of how they are constructed. Safety in the home has nothing to do with "how many bullets" or how fast you can shoot them. A revolver has a long heavy trigger. Very hard to shoot accidentally, especially when stored loaded in a holster. So is a DA/SA semi-auto, a gun that can be stored loaded but not racked or cocked. Do you even know what I'm talking about? I wonder. 

And Why is my AK safer than a pump shotgun? Because a pump shotgun takes time to load AND to unload and requires careful fingerwork. An AK takes a second both to load AND to unload. Its not fiddly. And fiddliness under pressure is unsafe. The only time I ever experienced an accidental discharge with a firearm was with a PUMP SHOTGUN. A shotgun is iffy for home defense if stored unloaded, because of the time needed to fiddle with loose shells in the middle of the night, half asleep in the dark with someone prowling around in the basement and making their way to the stairs.  It is not impossible you could have three or four people working together to rob you. Read up on it. Multiple armed assailants occur in many home invasions. In this case a semiautomatic would be your weapon of choice unequivocally. You'd need.to be fast. You'd preferably not have to stop and reload. While I do own an AK for a worst-case scenario, something I dont own and want to own is short semiautomatic carbine chambered in 45acp with mags accepting 20rds or more. Do you know why that would be my first choice? Because it carries alot of ammo in a caliber that doesn't penetrate walls well, and can be loaded OR unloaded in a second without the fiddliness of Firearms that are more complicated and cumbersome.

Moral of the story, don't dictate to me what I need nor don't need when you obviously run your mouth based only on trickled down bullshit coming from the anti-gun Democrat camp, and clearly know very little about firearms and the harsh realities of self defense.

Below is probably the safest and most effective home defense tool available, leaving a pump shotgun in the dust.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> What we are saying is that there should be extensive vetting and training in the use and the safe storage of guns.


Yet when asked repeatedly you refuse to give any details at all as to what this would looklike particularly your version of Enhanced Background Checks.




Wickerthing said:


> We are also saying that you don't need an assault weapon to ward off threats in your home



Our rights are not dependent on what you people arbitrarily declare to be our needs.

The Right to Keep and Bear Arms  is not, and cannot be limited to the home either.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

BothWings said:


> You're sitting there telling me what I need and don't need to defend myself. If things got crazy and police didn't have things under control, I want the best of what I can get to defend my home and perimeter. Americans have owned semi-automatic rifles for all purposes since they were available. Gun violence is something that has only spiked.to alarming proportions due to the prevalence of mental health issues and population, not so much the availability of guns or the types of guns available. Also blunderous social programs like.Prohibition also created the spikes of violence in America's history. Not the availability of guns so much.
> 
> You clearly are not very educated about guns. I own an AK47. Would that be the first thing I'd grab for something that went bump in the night? No way! I have handguns, both revolvers and semiautos. I have a shotgun. I keep a few of them at the ready and the rest.locked up. And a mistake with any of them could be deadly. It doesn't matter how many bullets the magazine holds. One ill-placed shot from any gun can mean tragedy. If youre worried about safety, believe it or not my revolvers and my AK are the safest guns I own because of how they are constructed. Safety in the home has nothing to do with "how many bullets" or how fast you can shoot them. A revolver has a long heavy trigger. Very hard to shoot accidentally, especially when stored loaded in a holster. So is a DA/SA semi-auto, a gun that can be stored loaded but not cocked. Why is my AK safer than a pump shotgun? Because a pump shotgun takes time to load AND to unload. An AK takes a second both to load AND to unload. Its not fiddly. And fiddliness under pressure is unsafe. The only time I ever experienced an accidental discharge with a firearm was with a SHOTGUN. A shotgun is near useless for home defense stored unloaded because of the time needed to fiddle with loose shells in the middle of the night, half asleep in the dark with someone prowling around in the basement and making their way to the stairs. It is not impossible you could have three or four people working together to rob you. Read up on it. Multiple armed assailants occur in many home invasions. In this case a semiautomatic would be your weapon of choice unequivocally. You'd need.to be fast. You'd preferably not have to stop and reload. While I do own an AK for a worst-case scenario, something I dont own and want to own is short semiautomatic carbine chambered in 45acp with mags accepting 20rds or more. Do you know why that would be my first choice? Because it carries alot of ammo in a caliber that doesn't penetrate walls well, and can be loaded OR unloaded in a second without the fiddliness of Firearms that are more complicated and cumbersome.
> 
> Moral of the story, don't dictate to me what I need nor don't need when you obviously run your mouth based only on trickled down bullshit coming from the Democrat camp, and clearly know very little about firearms and the harsh realities of self defense.


Police response time nationally runs about 4min 45 Seconds.  When you need to decide whether or not to pull the trigger they will still be minutes away.

Police rarely show up to a scene in time to do anything but count the bodies, try to find and talk to witnesses, and do paperwork.


----------



## BothWings (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Police response time nationally runs about 4min 45 Seconds.  When you need to decide whether or not to pull the trigger they will still be minutes away.
> 
> Police rarely show up to a scene in time to do anything but count the bodies, try to find and talk to witnesses, and do paperwork.


Yes, and in some neighborhoods, both rural and urban...that time could be considerably longer depending on the conditions.


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Yeah, but all you hear from the right is that the almost pornographic income gap is simply a naturally occurring phenomenon.  Apparently there is no cause and effect recognized by a lot of the folks getting royally screwed.   And they will fight like hell to make that point as the gap yawns wider.  This country was stupid a long time before Trump shined a light on it.


Reaganism and since Rush and Murdoch the brainwash....The Silent Majority became the Loudmouth one....


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Our Constitution is exceedingly clear.
> 
> ...


No, Natural Right, not political.  The rest is pretty well squared away.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

BothWings said:


> Yes, and in some neighborhoods, both rural and urban...that time could be considerably longer depending on the conditions.


Just because it's so large and the terrain so rough out here it can be a half hour to even get one there by chopper.

If you're off the main roads it can easily be a three hour drive from the south end of the county to the north end, if you're deep off the road then on a ranch even longer.

It's a fools errand to even begin to entertain the idea that the police can protects us and thankfully Our Constitution protects our right to do so.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> Reaganism and since Rush and Murdoch the brainwash....The Silent Majority became the Loudmouth one....


And all we get from you folks is denigration because you cannot win on the facts.

If you had a sound argument you could but of course you don't so this is what we expect.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Yeah, but all you hear from the right is that the almost pornographic income gap is simply a naturally occurring phenomenon.  Apparently there is no cause and effect recognized by a lot of the folks getting royally screwed.   And they will fight like hell to make that point as the gap yawns wider.  This country was stupid a long time before Trump shined a light on it.



Nobody is getting screwed.  Some people just make more money than others.  If you don't like people having all that money, then quit giving yours to them. Charity starts at home.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> It doesn't matter how much money someone else has, it has zero effect on what anyone else has US Currency is not a fixed, more money gets printed every day.


No difference when we go from a progressive tax policy to a regressive one?   Man, I thought you were ignorant before this but you just solidified that opinion.  So when Corporate America gets a permanent tax break concentrated at the very top and the working class gets a temporary one, that has no effect


BothWings said:


> You're sitting there telling me what I need and don't need to defend myself. If things got crazy and police didn't have things under control, I want the best of what I can get to defend my home and perimeter. Americans have owned semi-automatic rifles for all purposes since they were available. Gun violence is something that has only spiked.to alarming proportions due to the prevalence of mental health issues and population, not so much the availability of guns or the types of guns available. Also blunderous social programs like.Prohibition also created the spikes of violence in America's history. Not the availability of guns so much.
> 
> You clearly are not very educated about guns. I own an AK47. Would that be the first thing I'd grab for something that went bump in the night? No way! I have handguns, both revolvers and semiautos. I have a shotgun. I keep a few of them at the ready and the rest.locked up. And a mistake with any of them could be deadly. It doesn't matter how many bullets the magazine holds. One ill-placed shot from any gun can mean tragedy. If youre worried about safety, believe it or not my revolvers and my AK are the safest guns I own because of how they are constructed. Safety in the home has nothing to do with "how many bullets" or how fast you can shoot them. A revolver has a long heavy trigger. Very hard to shoot accidentally, especially when stored loaded in a holster. So is a DA/SA semi-auto, a gun that can be stored loaded but not racked or cocked. Do you even know what I'm talking about? I wonder.
> 
> ...





BothWings said:


> You're sitting there telling me what I need and don't need to defend myself. If things got crazy and police didn't have things under control, I want the best of what I can get to defend my home and perimeter. Americans have owned semi-automatic rifles for all purposes since they were available. Gun violence is something that has only spiked.to alarming proportions due to the prevalence of mental health issues and population, not so much the availability of guns or the types of guns available. Also blunderous social programs like.Prohibition also created the spikes of violence in America's history. Not the availability of guns so much.
> 
> You clearly are not very educated about guns. I own an AK47. Would that be the first thing I'd grab for something that went bump in the night? No way! I have handguns, both revolvers and semiautos. I have a shotgun. I keep a few of them at the ready and the rest.locked up. And a mistake with any of them could be deadly. It doesn't matter how many bullets the magazine holds. One ill-placed shot from any gun can mean tragedy. If youre worried about safety, believe it or not my revolvers and my AK are the safest guns I own because of how they are constructed. Safety in the home has nothing to do with "how many bullets" or how fast you can shoot them. A revolver has a long heavy trigger. Very hard to shoot accidentally, especially when stored loaded in a holster. So is a DA/SA semi-auto, a gun that can be stored loaded but not racked or cocked. Do you even know what I'm talking about? I wonder.
> 
> ...


I think I know a little bit about guns since I'm a retired combat Marine.  I've used M-14s M-16s  M-79 grenade launchers, Both 60 and 81 MM Morters, Flame throwers, Bazookas, LAAWs, M-60 Machine Guns, I've wired and set Claymore Mines, etc etc.  It must be a real bummer to live life so afraid of bogey men.  And to act as if you are being hunted.  Leave that paranoia for folks who are at war. If you're that afraid then you are living in a very bad neighborhood.  Move! I've been shot by an Ak47 and I've killed with an M16.  But in the last 52 years I haven't felt the need for keeping firearms.  I don't equate having guns to being a man.  It seems all of you NRA nuts think it gives you extra testosterone or something.  Nice picture?  You obviously think that somehow impresses folks.  It doesn't. It just makes you look like a tough guy wannabe looking for something you ain't got.  I pity you and everyone like you.  Tough guy my ass!


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Nobody is getting screwed.  Some people just make more money than others.  If you don't like people having all that money, then quit giving yours to them. Charity starts at home.


You've drank the koolade brother.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> No difference when we go from a progressive tax policy to a regressive one?   Man, I thought you were ignorant before this but you just solidified that opinion.  So when Corporate America gets a permanent tax break concentrated at the very top and the working class gets a temporary one, that has no effect
> 
> 
> I think I know a little bit about guns since I'm a retired combat Marine.  I've used M-14s M-16s  M-79 grenade launchers, Both 60 and 81 MM Morters, Flame throwers, Bazookas, LAAWs, M-60 Machine Guns, I've wired and set Claymore Mines, etc etc.  It must be a real bummer to live life so afraid of bogey men.  And to act as if you are being hunted.  Leave that paranoia for folks who are at war. If you're that afraid then you are living in a very bad neighborhood.  Move! I've been shot by an Ak47 and I've killed with an M16.  But in the last 52 years I haven't felt the need for keeping firearms.  I don't equate having guns to being a man.  It seems all of you NRA nuts think it gives you extra testosterone or something.  Nice picture?  You obviously think that somehow impresses folks.  It doesn't. It just makes you look like a tough guy wannabe looking for something you ain't got.  I pity you and everyone like you.  Tough guy my ass!


Gov't raping the rich is punishment for success.

Their bank balance does not prevent you from earning more.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> I think I know a little bit about guns since I'm a retired combat Marine. I've used M-14s M-16s M-79 grenade launchers, Both 60 and 81 MM Morters, Flame throwers, Bazookas, LAAWs, M-60 Machine Guns, I've wired and set Claymore Mines, etc etc. It must be a real bummer to live life so afraid of bogey men. And to act as if you are being hunted. Leave that paranoia for folks who are at war. If you're that afraid then you are living in a very bad neighborhood. Move! I've been shot by an Ak47 and I've killed with an M16. But in the last 52 years I haven't felt the need for keeping firearms. I don't equate having guns to being a man. It seems all of you NRA nuts think it gives you extra testosterone or something. Nice picture? You obviously think that somehow impresses folks. It doesn't. It just makes you look like a tough guy wannabe looking for something you ain't got. I pity you and everyone like you. Tough guy my ass!



Obviously not.  One doesn't have to be tough to kill, particularly with modern weaponry.

If you're prepared for a threat, there's no need to fear it,  you just deal with it accordingly.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> So a SCOTUS Ruling is no longer Settled Law?
> 
> Do you really want that as the new legal standard in the US?
> 
> Stare Decisis would immediately be thrown out the window if that's the case.


When decisions that effect everyone are settled along party lines, they deserve to be revisited.  Just as it was in 08.  The right would call it settle forever as they go about trying to overturn Roe v Wade.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> So when Corporate America gets a permanent tax break concentrated at the very top and the working class gets a temporary one, that has no effect


 Corporations are not the "top 1%" they don't pay income taxes, they pay taxes only on inventory and profits.

The top ten percent pay over fifty percent of the total tax burden while 49%'rs at the bottom pay no income tax at all.

The top 25% pay over 90% of all income taxes so how the hell are the working poor getting screwed when they have a net negative tax liability?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Gov't raping the rich is punishment for success.
> 
> Their bank balance does not prevent you from earning more.


You idiot.  Tax policy sure does.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> When decisions that effect everyone are settled along party lines, they deserve to be revisited.  Just as it was in 08.  The right would call it settle forever as they go about trying to overturn Roe v Wade.


Roe has already been eaten like an elephant, slowly and one bite at a time.  Every state now has limits on abortion.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> You idiot.  Tax policy sure does.


It's their money, they earned it.  Your bank balance isn't affected by it.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Corporations are not the "top 1%" they don't pay income taxes, they pay taxes only on inventory and profits.
> 
> The top ten percent pay over fifty percent of the total tax burden while 49%'rs at the bottom pay no income tax at all.
> 
> The top 25% pay over 90% of all income taxes so how the hell are the working poor getting screwed when they have a net negative tax liability?


I was referring to the middle class which is getting squeezed every year.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Roe has already been eaten like an elephant, slowly and one bite at a time.  Every state now has limits on abortion.


The right wants it gone completely.  Another supreme court issue that remains unsettled on a national basis.    Thank you!   Fuckin tool!   Hey nice cartoons.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> I was referring to the middle class which is getting squeezed every year.


Today's middle class is mostly white collar guys and gals.  Their taxes have not gone up, they got a substantial tax cut.

You are a political schizophrenic it seems,  Just a few days ago you were ranting that those tax cuts have to be paid for with higher taxes, now you're moving the bar in a completely different direction.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> The right wants it gone completely.  Another supreme court issue that remains unsettled on a national basis.    Thank you!   Fuckin tool!   Hey nice cartoons.


Again you're fabricating shit.

There are very few on the Right that want to ban abortion completely.  Virtually every serious bill offered at the state and federal levels allows for exceptions.

You know, if you had the facts on your side and a winning argument you wouldn't have to constantly lie in order to attempt to score some kind of point.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> It's their money, they earned it.  Your bank balance isn't affected by it.


Think beyond your ignorance.  Folks need to work multi jobs just to stay above water.  It effects families and it effects lifestyles.  It's not just a thing that happened for no reason you fool!


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Today's middle class is mostly white collar guys and gals.  Their taxes have not gone up, they got a substantial tax cut.
> 
> You are a political schizophrenic it seems,  Just a few days ago you were ranting that those tax cuts have to be paid for with higher taxes, now you're moving the bar in a completely different direction.


No I'm not.  You really need to go back to school.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Again you're fabricating shit.
> 
> There are very few on the Right that want to ban abortion completely.  Virtually every serious bill offered at the state and federal levels allows for exceptions.
> 
> You know, if you had the facts on your side and a winning argument you wouldn't have to constantly lie in order to attempt to score some kind of point.


 But you fully support the second amendment as settled law of the land while touting states rights on abortion.  Very convenient.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> No I'm not.  You really need to go back to school.


Yet your posting says otherwise.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> But you fully support the second amendment as settled law of the land while touting states rights on abortion.  Very convenient.


 Those laws were Upheld by the Federal Courts including SCOTUS.

It's hard to bat lower than .000 but somehow you excel at it.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 23, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> I'll go with the Supremes thanks....And a ban on new military style and with background checks, nutjob.


Fine. Keep going to the way you're going. You can see how much good it's doing.

lol

These fucktards complain about Trump because he calls people names.

lmao


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> I'll go with the Supremes thanks....And a ban on new military style and with background checks, nutjob.


I hope you enjoy the wait, best order a lot of food and water because it's going to be a long one.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> No difference when we go from a progressive tax policy to a regressive one?   Man, I thought you were ignorant before this but you just solidified that opinion.  So when Corporate America gets a permanent tax break concentrated at the very top and the working class gets a temporary one, that has no effect
> 
> 
> I think I know a little bit about guns since I'm a retired combat Marine.  I've used M-14s M-16s  M-79 grenade launchers, Both 60 and 81 MM Morters, Flame throwers, Bazookas, LAAWs, M-60 Machine Guns, I've wired and set Claymore Mines, etc etc.  It must be a real bummer to live life so afraid of bogey men.  And to act as if you are being hunted.  Leave that paranoia for folks who are at war. If you're that afraid then you are living in a very bad neighborhood.  Move! I've been shot by an Ak47 and I've killed with an M16.  But in the last 52 years I haven't felt the need for keeping firearms.  I don't equate having guns to being a man.  It seems all of you NRA nuts think it gives you extra testosterone or something.  Nice picture?  You obviously think that somehow impresses folks.  It doesn't. It just makes you look like a tough guy wannabe looking for something you ain't got.  I pity you and everyone like you.  Tough guy my ass!


Ok that's just hilarious.  The only person playing tough guy here is yourself.

That kind of Hypocrisy should be painful.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Those laws were Upheld by the Federal Courts including SCOTUS.
> 
> It's hard to bat lower than .000 but somehow you excel at it.





Desert Texan said:


> Those laws were Upheld by the Federal Courts including SCOTUS.
> 
> It's hard to bat lower than .000 but somehow you excel at it.


Being upheld by fed courts never stopped the GOP from attacking Abortion rights in every way imaginable in states and in the federal courts and by continually changing the definition of viable pregnancy.      And it was Justice Stephens I believe who wrote a dissenting opinion on the second amendment citing the terminology of "militia"   it was a close call and as I said, it will be revisited.   So, _upheld _doesn't mean permanence.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Ok that's just hilarious.  The only person playing tough guy here is yourself.
> 
> That kind of Hypocrisy should be painful.


Corporate tax rates are just barely higher than those for the middle class.  And the GOP keeps killing bills to help the middle class catch up by subsidizing education, providing universal healthcare and they consistently stand against unions.  Those are the biggest trio that is shrinking the middle class. And add stagnant wages and resistance to a $15 min wage and the future is bleak.  We need to grow the pie by making the top earners pay more.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 23, 2022)

g5000 said:


> The "gun grab" hoax is the best marketing ploy ever created by the gun manufacturing lobby.
> 
> OBAMAZ CUMMIN FER YER GUNZ!  BUY MOAR!
> 
> ...


How is it a hoax?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Gov't raping the rich is punishment for success.
> 
> Their bank balance does not prevent you from earning more.


I get a kick out of that one  Raping the Rich.  Yeah, somebody's getting fucked but it ain't the rich.  The inventors of the partial work week so benefits disappear.  Poor Poor Rich.  LOL  Astounding ignorance.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Corporate tax rates are just barely higher than those for the middle class.  And the GOP keeps killing bills to help the middle class catch up by subsidizing education, providing universal healthcare and they consistently stand against unions.  Those are the biggest trio that is shrinking the middle class. And add stagnant wages and resistance to a $15 min wage and the future is bleak.  We need to grow the pie by making the top earners pay more.





> Corporate tax rates are just barely higher than those for the middle class.


So what?  Those profits pay for new hires, new equipment, modernizing and of course distributed among share holders who pay additional taxes on that same income.



> And the GOP keeps killing bills to help the middle class catch up by subsidizing education, providing universal healthcare and they consistently stand against unions.





> And add stagnant wages and resistance to a $15 min wage and the future is bleak. We need to grow the pie by making the top earners pay more.



The net effect of which is fewer jobs.  A company only has so much room in their budget for salaries.  Falsely inflating them with increases in the mandated wage divides that pot between fewer employees.

Only about 1.6 million people in the US today earn minimum wage, what does that have to do with the middle class and their earnings?

The drive for 15.00m/w is also forcing companies to completely and permanently eliminate jobs and replacing them with technology and robots to do everything from flipping burgers to washing windows and sweeping/mopping floors.

What are you going to do with all of those people who then have no experience and no skills trying to break into the job market?

A great example of this effect can easily be seen in agriculture.  Mechanization and Techological development have combined to eliminate about 90% of the labor necessary to farm, and in forestry.

Ten years from now projections tell us 10 million jobs will be eliminated over the next 10 years due to robotics and technology. What are you going to do with those people who have no other skill or no skill at all that go into those fields to get job experience and develop a skill?



> And the GOP keeps killing bills to help the middle class catch up by subsidizing education, providing universal healthcare and they consistently stand against unions.  Those are the biggest trio that is shrinking the middle class.



Yet for 3 successive years under the previous administration Real Incomes for the middle class reached their highest levels in history without turning the US into a Socialist state.

It's not the gov't's job to fund our lifestyles, that is known as, "Personal Responsibility".  For those unable to ear a living there's more than an ample social safety net providing all of those things along with free/subsidized housing.

The only thing hurting the middle class right now is inflation and stupid policies by the current administration.

You could tax 100% of the income of every corporation and rich person in the country and still not have enough money to solve anything because you would kill the drive to take the necessary risks to build a company or even a small business.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> I get a kick out of that one  Raping the Rich.  Yeah, somebody's getting fucked but it ain't the rich.  The inventors of the partial work week so benefits disappear.  Poor Poor Rich.  LOL  Astounding ignorance.


Obamacare created the 30hr work week.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Corporate tax rates are just barely higher than those for the middle class.  And the GOP keeps killing bills to help the middle class catch up by subsidizing education, providing universal healthcare and they consistently stand against unions.  Those are the biggest trio that is shrinking the middle class. And add stagnant wages and resistance to a $15 min wage and the future is bleak.  We need to grow the pie by making the top earners pay more.



Our federal government was never designed to give you education, unions or healthcare. Our federal government was designed to govern.  You want anything outside of that, then get it yourself.  You're not helpless.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Think beyond your ignorance.  Folks need to work multi jobs just to stay above water.  It effects families and it effects lifestyles.  It's not just a thing that happened for no reason you fool!



So then get a better paying job.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> I was referring to the middle class which is getting squeezed every year.



I'm middle-class. Since the Trump tax cuts, I'm paying less, just ask my accountant.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> No difference when we go from a progressive tax policy to a regressive one?   Man, I thought you were ignorant before this but you just solidified that opinion.  So when Corporate America gets a permanent tax break concentrated at the very top and the working class gets a temporary one, that has no effect
> 
> 
> I think I know a little bit about guns since I'm a retired combat Marine.  I've used M-14s M-16s  M-79 grenade launchers, Both 60 and 81 MM Morters, Flame throwers, Bazookas, LAAWs, M-60 Machine Guns, I've wired and set Claymore Mines, etc etc.  It must be a real bummer to live life so afraid of bogey men.  And to act as if you are being hunted.  Leave that paranoia for folks who are at war. If you're that afraid then you are living in a very bad neighborhood.  Move! I've been shot by an Ak47 and I've killed with an M16.  But in the last 52 years I haven't felt the need for keeping firearms.  I don't equate having guns to being a man.  It seems all of you NRA nuts think it gives you extra testosterone or something.  Nice picture?  You obviously think that somehow impresses folks.  It doesn't. It just makes you look like a tough guy wannabe looking for something you ain't got.  I pity you and everyone like you.  Tough guy my ass!



If you don't want to own a gun, fine with us.  We support you because we Republicans believe in choice.  But if you don't want to own a gun, quit insisting the rest of us do the same.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So then get a better paying job.


He's a long time retiree military retiree and disabled vet.  Disability payments are non taxable. That means he also gets free healthcare including prescription benefits from the VA.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> If you don't want to own a gun, fine with us.  We support you because we Republicans believe in choice.  But if you don't want to own a gun, quit insisting the rest of us do the same.


Democrats only believe in freedom, choices, and liberty for those things they approve of.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> He's a long time retiree military retiree and disabled vet.  Disability payments are non taxable. That means he also gets free healthcare including prescription benefits from the VA.



And I have no problem with that.  But unless he's been out in the private market working jobs, he has no idea what he's talking about. 

My former industry needs thousands of workers they can't find.  In transportation, you can make up to six figures if you want.  There are a lot of jobs in upper five figures.  My father is a retired bricklayer.  His union sends out solicitation to their retirees to help them find new bricklayers.  Granted construction is hard work, but Dad made a pretty good living and retirement for himself.  With benefits, bricklayers make over $50.00 an hour plus overtime, and up north, you are laid off all winter and collect unemployment. Still can't find anybody to take these jobs.  

So when people tell me there are no good paying jobs, I tell them they are FOS.  Plenty of good paying jobs, but not enough sober workers to take those jobs.  I kept this local ad to make my point.  Mind you this was before covid, but drivers are more needed today than back then with us baby boomers retiring.









						Walmart to hire hundreds of truck drivers, raise salary to nearly $90,000
					

Walmart has announced it will hire “hundreds” of truck drivers and raise driver pay in 2019. Last year, the company saw same-store comp sales hit three percent, “which is leading …




					fox8.com


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 23, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> And I have no problem with that.  But unless he's been out in the private market working jobs, he has no idea what he's talking about.
> 
> My former industry needs thousands of workers they can't find.  In transportation, you can make up to six figures if you want.  There are a lot of jobs in upper five figures.  My father is a retired bricklayer.  His union sends out solicitation to their retirees to help them find new bricklayers.  Granted construction is hard work, but Dad made a pretty good living and retirement for himself.  With benefits, bricklayers make over $50.00 an hour plus overtime, and up north, you are laid off all winter and collect unemployment. Still can't find anybody to take these jobs.
> 
> ...


Of course he has no idea what he's talking about which is par for the course.  We couldn't expect anything different nor could we expect him to be remotely honest about it.

For a supposed Marine that's odd.  Marines are supposed to live and die by their honor code.


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> And all we get from you folks is denigration because you cannot win on the facts.
> 
> If you had a sound argument you could but of course you don't so this is what we expect.


Yes yes. who needs evidence when you have Rush and Sean lol. the whole world outside your bubble knows you're technically insane...change the gd channel. ignoramus dupe....election hoax gw hoax, vax mask hoax, you're totally full of laughable bs...


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Gov't raping the rich is punishment for success.
> 
> Their bank balance does not prevent you from earning more.


Yes yes, cheap college and training wouldn't help the people,, brainwashed functional morons.... nor would a living wage, health care, daycare, great infrastructure and great vacations like every other modern country has, super dupe...No sacrifice is too great to save the greedy idiot lying GOP megarich...Poor America....Thanks for the worst inequality, poverty, and upward mobility ever anywhere....


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 23, 2022)

bripat9643 said:


> How is it a hoax?


Nobody's coming for any guns lol, they might ban new sales, you jackasses will have to get by with the 20 million already around....


----------



## protectionist (Mar 23, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> 90% was the top rate under Ike, 70 under JFK. Reagan cut it to 50 and had success, then going out the door he cut it to 28% and screwed everyone BUT the rich, You are clueless as always, super duper....Ike was an Indie who warned us about the greedy warmongering GOP swine....


YOU are clueless.  Ike, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, all had higher tax rates on the rich than Clinton, Obama, and Biden.









						Historical Highest Marginal Income Tax Rates
					






					www.taxpolicycenter.org


----------



## protectionist (Mar 23, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> Thanks for the worst inequality, poverty, and upward mobility ever anywhere....


You can thank Biden for that.
When Trump was president >>>
5. created 10 million jobs in 4 months, created over 400,000 manufacturing jobs,
6. unemployment claims hit 50 year low, 
7. lowest unemployment for blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and disabled in US history, 8.lowest unemployment for women in over 70 years,
9. lowest unemployment rate ever recorded for Americans without a high school diploma,
10. 4 million Americans off food stamps,
11. vocational training topped 4 million - highest ever,
12. highest median wage in US history . 
15. reformed the Medicare program to stop hospitals from overcharging low-income seniors on their drugs—saving seniors hundreds of millions of dollars,
34. created 8,700 Opportunity Zones with investment incentives for companies to invest in distressed communities
54.  Presided over the largest GDP growth (33.1%) in US history.
55.  Got $ 250 Million/year to black colleges


----------



## protectionist (Mar 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> I'll bet you're one of those jack offs who wears a cowboy hat.


cultural bigotry on display


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 23, 2022)

protectionist said:


> YOU are clueless.  Ike, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, all had higher tax rates on the rich than Clinton, Obama, and Biden.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Duh, we still have Reagan tax rates lol.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 23, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Federal regulations on machine guns only work because there are other weapons available to fill the gap.  If you ban firearms, even if they can get most out of the hands of criminals, they will start on knives and baseball bats next.  It would reduce gun crime but not reduce crime a single bit.


Huh ? If auto “magic”  weapons are no great thing, why does the military use them ? Dah. A full auto was banned because it gave one person the fire power of half a dozen soldiers with semi autos. Obviously, you were NEVER in the military during a shooting war . Ever been shot at by a full auto ? Ask a vet.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 23, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Mission statements are empty words.
> 
> I understand the our constitution far better than you since you seem to think it gives the Fed Govt unlimited power.   There is nothing in our constitution that justifies a Fed Dept of Education for example.  But yet we have one.


More made up shit. No one  wants to piss on state rights more then the the right and Trump Humpers. Let’s just throw out the results when you don’t like how a state votes. Amazing. You guys tried to over thrown a constitutionally sanctioned election. And you call the left unconstitutional. Get a load of the number of administration officials from  repugs who have violated the law….vs Dems. Try more then 200 to one. The admin is part of the Fed …dah. It’s most crooked under the right fascist tendencies of the repugnants,.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 23, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> Duh, we still have Reagan tax rates lol.


No, we have Biden tax rates (37% on the rich). 
For most of Reagan's years, we had 50-69% on the rich.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 23, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> More made up shit. No one  wants to piss on state rights more then the the right and Trump Humpers. Let’s just throw out the results when you don’t like how a state votes. Amazing. You guys tried to over thrown a constitutionally sanctioned election. And you call the left unconstitutional. Get a load of the number of administration officials from  repugs who have violated the law….vs Dems. Try more then 200 to one. The admin is part of the Fed …dah. It’s most crooked under the right fascist tendencies of the repugnants,.


What you call a "constitutionally sanctioned election", was an orchestrated destruction of American democracy by Democrat thugs..  Hopefully, it will ressurect later this year. We'll see.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 23, 2022)

protectionist said:


> You can thank Biden for that.
> When Trump was president >>>
> 
> 54.  Presided over the largest GDP growth (33.1%) in US history.
> 55.  Got $ 250 Million/year to black colleges


Correction:  # 54 should be 33.8%


----------



## scruffy (Mar 23, 2022)

protectionist said:


> cultural bigotry on display


We're not sure if he meant an actual cowboy or one of those woke cowboys.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 23, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> You are clueless.  It is a crime for any federal agency to keep a record of firearms transfers for more than 90 days without an open case and a warrant.





protectionist said:


> What you call a "constitutionally sanctioned election", was an orchestrated destruction of American democracy by Democrat thugs..  Hopefully, it will ressurect later this year. We'll see.


A other fascist comment to defend the unconstitutional  attempt to overthrow an election. You have no proof. None, nada p, nix. The gop repugnants and Trump have produced NOTHING. Or, are you claiming they are too INCOMPETENT TO FIND IT ? Oh, wait till next year…..
.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 23, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Shit. The Feebs track soccer moms. They couldn't find a weapon in a cupcake sized haystack.
> 
> How come liberals are under the delusion that it's the criminals registering their weapons? Maybe this is news for you, but 2/3 of the weapons in this country are unregistered  The FBI doesn't know diddly squat, they only know about the nice law abiding citizens.


Dah, it’s the dealers who are required to keep records. Dah.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 23, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> More made up shit. No one  wants to piss on state rights more then the the right and Trump Humpers. Let’s just throw out the results when you don’t like how a state votes. Amazing. You guys tried to over thrown a constitutionally sanctioned election. And you call the left unconstitutional. Get a load of the number of administration officials from  repugs who have violated the law….vs Dems. Try more then 200 to one. The admin is part of the Fed …dah. It’s most crooked under the right fascist tendencies of the repugnants,.



You are so much fun.  I am not a "Trump Humper", I am not on the "right".  90% of the people on here think I am a Biden loving lefty. 

I agree with on what the Trumpers tried/are trying to do with the election.

I call both sides unconstitutional.

With all your ad hominems dealt with, there is no Constitutional authority for something like a Federal Dept of Education.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 23, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Dah, it’s the dealers who are required to keep records. Dah.


You really don't know how this works, do you?

The dealers are in CHINA. They make pretty decent pea shooters too. They even print them up with 3-d printers. You can buy a disposable for 50 bucks.

Liberals in/and government seem to have no idea of the reality on the ground. They talk all this big shit about gun control, but at the end of the day they're clueless about the reality.

YOU can print up a weapon yourself, on your very own 3-d printer. Sure, you're supposed to register it (and yourself). Do you think anyone does?


----------



## protectionist (Mar 23, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> A other fascist comment to defend the unconstitutional  attempt to overthrow an election. You have no proof. None, nada p, nix. The gop repugnants and Trump have produced NOTHING. Or, are you claiming they are too INCOMPETENT TO FIND IT ? Oh, wait till next year…..
> .


It will take you about 2 weeks to read all these proofs (incl. links & sub-links), so after you've gone all through it, you THEN can comment in response.

*Arizona*
An anonymous email sent to the Justice Department criminal division and Arizona legislature alleged that in Pima County, 35,000 votes were fraudulently embedded in advance of the election on behalf of each Democratic candidate at the local and federal level. The allegation coincides with a spike or "injection" of 143,000 votes noted at 8:06 p.m. on election night.

According to the email, discussed at a hearing, Pima County Democrats held a meeting on Sept. 10, 2020 in which plans were detailed to illegally inject 35,000 votes for each Democrat at the outset in statistically adjusted embeds that could be written off as human error if audited.

There was no proper validation of 1.9 million signatures on mail in ballots.

Dominion machines were connected to the internet, according to a witness at a GOP hearing, raising serious security issues.

A hearing witness states she was instructed to allow people to vote who were not registered in the state, who were not on the voter rolls, who had out of state driver's licenses, who not had been residents long enough, who had not registered in time or who said they were registered in another state. However, pro-Trump voters from other counties were sent away, she says. She also says somebody apparently brought homeless people from outside the precinct in to vote. She also says 13,000 votes, when counted, were unobserved by Republicans.

She says just what she personally observed over five hours in one day impacted approximately 2,000 votes. She also said a poll observer for Democrats from California told her he was there "to help turn this precinct blue... this is one of our problem ones." He told her they were also focusing on Maricopa County.

A Republican Party leader says she watched votes for Trump be changed to or counted for Biden once they were place in the machine. In a lawsuit, she also says in parts of Maricopa County there were not proper safeguards verifying that mail-in ballots came from registered voters. She also says Republicans were not allowed a proper view of the counting process. (More to come from Arizona hearing soon...)

Watch: Arizona hearing

State officials blame “a data error” for conflicting and fluctuating results in one county that dropped the appearance of Biden’s lead by 6,000 votes, and then posted it back again.

*California*
Two men are charged with voter fraud after they allegedly submitted more than 8,000 fraudulent voter registration applications for homeless people between July and October 2020.

Pair Charged With Voter Fraud | Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office


*Georgia*
Allegations of "clear evidence of vote switching" from Trump to Biden, including 30,000 votes among several counties.










There were illegal votes from as many as 2,560 felons; 66,247 underage residents; 2,423 people who were not registered; 4,926 people who registered in another state after Georgia; more than 395 people who voted twice; 8,718 dead people; 2,664 who received absentee ballots outside the deadline; illegally blocked observers; failure to properly match signatures and verify identify and eligibility. That's according to a lawsuit filed on behalf of President Trump on Dec. 4.

Statistical analysis shows Biden pulling from behind in improbably consistent increments in Georgia and other states. “On Wednesday, Nov. 4, the New York Times reported President Trump was leading in Georgia by *103,997* votes. Then the Times’ continuous voting updates showed ballots arriving for Biden in multiples of 4,800 votes over and over again. In some vote dumps, the President actually lost votes.” This continued until Biden pulled ahead by almost exactly 1,000 votes, gaining *104,984 *votes in multiples of 4,800.








Read More

In Fulton County, all 900 military ballots went for Joe Biden. The 100% military vote rate for Biden seems improbably in conflict with the 2016 split, where Trump reportedly won the overall military vote 60% to 34%, according to attorney Lin Wood.

On election night, Georgia election officials suspended the vote count, citing a water leak in a master pipe. When Republican observers left, thousands of votes were counted, exclusively for Joe Biden. When people inquired, there was no work order for any leak. The only reported leak that night was a small leak in a toilet that “had nothing to do with a room with ballot counting,” according to a lawsuit filed by attorney Lin Wood. This was confirmed by a later investigation held by a state official.

Read Lin Wood Lawsuit

Election workers put masses of ballots in the wrong stacks and blocked Republican observers; there were suspiciously “pristine" “pre-printed” ballots; thousands of voters registered at specific, fraudulent addresses; 20,311 absentee or early votes were cast by people who were registered as having moved out of state; 96,000 votes were illegally counted for Biden; absentee ballot signatures were not properly matched. That’s according to attorney Sidney Powell’s lawsuit. The lawsuit also states that Dominion voting machines allowed for manual manipulation of vote tallies and alteration of settings to put ballots in a “question” pile where they can be deleted.

Read Sidney Powell Lawsuit

Attorney and registered Democrat Carlos Silva says he observed “widespread fraud” in several precincts, always benefitting Biden. At one precinct, a stack of absentee ballots had perfectly filled out black bubbles and, as poll workers went through the stack, he heard them call out Biden’s name “more than 500 times in a row.” At a second precinct, he observed similarly filled in black bubbles for Biden on absentee ballots and poll workers moved him away from his observation position. He observed absentee ballots for Trump counted for Biden; says the required signature verification process was not being followed; and thousands of the “perfect bubble” ballots were for Biden, with no state or local candidates selected. The claims are filed in a sworn declaration.

Read Declaration

Government data indicates "well over 100,000 illegal votes [in Georgia] were improperly counted, while tens of thousands of legal votes were not counted.” That’s according to the Thomas Moore Society's Amistad Project, which has filed litigation questioning more than 200,000 Georgia ballots.

Read More

Gov. Brian Kemp illegally authorized election officials to open outer envelopes of absentee ballots three weeks before the election, which is prohibited by state law, according to a lawsuit.

A Project Veritas video claims observers heard votes for Trump being counted for Biden.

See Video

Some voters who requested a mail-in ballot but instead decided to vote in person on Election Day were denied the chance to vote in person, according to a witness. The witness also said many such voters were denied the opportunity to cast a “provisional” mail-in ballot on Election Day. Signatures on mail-in ballot envelopes weren’t verified during the recount, says a witness. Some counties didn’t recount ballots by hand, but improperly used machines. One observer said he saw a batch of ballots that was suspiciously “pristine,” almost all for Biden, and “there was a difference in the texture of the paper.”

At a Milton, Georgia, precinct, poll workers were asked to sign a chain of custody letter a day and a half before the voting machines arrived, according to a witness. She also said the machines were not sealed or locked as required, and the serial numbers didn’t match.

One observer described many batches of ballots in which every vote was for Biden, and says he saw that the watermark on some ballots differed from the rest.

Read More

Read Declaration

More than 1,000 early/absentee votes were cast by people whose registered addresses are at post offices, UPS, and FedEx; willfully disguising the box numbers as ‘Apt,’ ‘Unit,’ etc. in violation of state election law. That’s according to Matt Braynard, former data and strategy director for President Trump’s 2016 campaign. (A sample of 15 such address entries in a Nov. 24 tweet):

Read More

The hand recount was not legitimate because pro-Trump observers were not allowed proper access, according to multiple observers. Some votes for Trump were placed into piles for Biden. Some ballots from the “No Vote” and “Jorgensen” candidate trays were moved to the “Biden” tray, according to one witness.

A recount monitor flagged a 9,626-vote error in the hand recount in DeKalb County, according to the chairman of the Georgia Republican Party in a declaration. One batch had 10,707 votes for Biden and 13 for Trump. But the true count was 1,081 for Biden and 13 for Trump. Two official counters had signed off on the miscounted batch.

Read Affidavit

Read More

A post-election audit and recount discovered memory cards with thousands of uncounted ballots, most of them for Trump, two weeks after the election: 508 in Walton County, 2,600 in Floyd County and 2,755 in Fayette County. The discovery cut Biden’s lead in the state by more than 1,400 votes.

Read More

In one county, 3,300 votes were found after the election on memory sticks that had not been loaded into the central vote tally system. There are no procedures to ensure the security of the USB drives reporting vote tallies, according to a lawsuit.

Georgia election officials allegedly intended to alter and/or wipe machines. A judge granted attorney Lin Wood's emergency request to preserve the machines as-they-are while other motions are considered (Sunday, Nov. 29).

Read Judge's Order








Security camera video presented at a hearing in Georgia purports to show while a room was emptied and counting paused, a few officials pulled groups of ballots out of four suitcases and counted them without legal observers present.

Watch the video here

Watch Georgia Senate hearing here

Multiple poll observers claim they were not allowed close enough to do proper observation or were moved out of the counting rooms entirely.

Supervisor Marcia Ridley of the Spalding County Board of Elections said a "technical glitch" in two Georgia countries that caused machines to crash for several hours on Election Day was triggered by something Dominion Voting Systems uploaded the night before. However, the Secretary of State's office contradicted that information when questioned under oath stating: "It’s not true … I’m not really sure why she said that."

Read More

An analysis of a Dominion voting machine shows 37 votes were moved from Trump to Biden in one small county, according to information presented at a state hearing. Trump attorneys claim when extrapolated statewide, it would add up to 14,000 votes, while Biden won Georgia by 10,000 votes.

On Nov. 18, Cobb County shredded white privacy envelopes for absentee ballots, which are required to be saved under Georgia law to show if each ballot arrived via mail Nov. 18; stacks of absentee ballots had never been folded though they would have to be to be properly mailed; some ballots were kept in Dominion officials' cars in violation of security procedures; when observers were dismissed from State Farm Arena, counting went on for two hours without them and during this time period Biden pulled ahead; for 2% of ballots in Fulton County there was no proper chain of custody (an amount greater than Biden's lead in the states); ballots were transported in an insecure fashion without the required security tags, 25,000 people voted who had filed permanent out-of-state change-of-addresses. All of that is according to witnesses at a Georgia State House hearing on Dec. 10.

Watch Georgia State House hearing


*Idaho*
Live online election results from Associated Press (AP) appear to show some sort of glitch, with Trump seeming to lose 6,000 votes in a span of two minutes.

*Michigan*
A forensic analysis of two Antrim County Dominion voting machines reportedly shows: data from the election was improperly deleted on Nov. 4, the software is designed to have an unacceptably high "error" rate of 68% when federal law only allows a fractional error rate. An attorney representing a voter in a lawsuit says the high error rate allows for unsupervised "adjudication" of the bulk of the votes, which opens up the possibility of fraud. Dominon denies any impropriety.

Listen to interview with attorney here

Read Sidney Powell lawsuit

Read More

Forensic analysis by a former military intelligence analyst alleges proof of foreign interference and/or access in the election. It shows Dominion’s voting machine server connected to Iran, China and Serbia. Also, the analyst says records show HongKong Shanghai Bank became collateral agent for Dominion voting systems on Sept. 25, 2019. The declaration is contained in the lawsuit filed by attorney Sidney Powell and includes screen shots and a summary of the evidence.

Read analysis

Read more

Detroit worker Jessy Jacob states in a declaration that she and others were directed to backdate about 100,000 absentee ballots, or about 10,000 per day to make them appear legal even though they were not in the Qualified Voter File and had not arrived by the deadline. She also testified that leading up to Election Day, Detroit poll workers skipped voter ID checks.

Read More

Read Jacob Declaration

Wayne County Board of Canvassing member William Hartmann, a Republican, says in a sworn declaration that Michigan's largest county certified results knowing there were massive discrepancies between the approved voter files and the ballots cast and counted in Detroit. 71% of Detroit’s 134 absentee voter counting boards were “left unbalanced” and many unexplained, he said in a statement. He also said birth dates in voter ID files were “altered.”

*Order "Slanted: How the News Media Taught Us to Love Censorship and Hate Journalism" by Sharyl Attkisson today at Harper Collins, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Books a Million, IndieBound, Bookshop!*
In an Oakland County commissioner race, incumbent Republican Adam Kochenderfer was told he lost, but a later review determined he won. The director of elections blamed the mistake on “a computer issue” that caused Rochester Hills to incorrectly send in results for “seven precincts as both precinct votes and absentee votes” when they should only have been counted once, as absentees.

Results were reversed in Antrim County after it first appeared Biden beat Trump in a landslide by 6,000 votes there. Michigan officials later blamed “user error” for the incorrect results, and declared Trump actually won the county. The state blamed an Antrim County clerk for failing to properly “update software used to collect voting machine data.” The reason the information got a second look is because people who know the county thought the initial Biden landslide seemed unlikely. But officials say the mishap never affected totals.

Read More

An observer in Detroit told a Michigan State Senate hearing that numerous military ballots that looked like “Xerox copies” and were all marked for Democrat Joe Biden. She said election workers manually entered fake birthdates on the records of non registered voters to override the system and allow their votes.

Read More

Michigan observer flags chain of custody issues, machines improperly collected to Internet, and other problems.

Watch for Details

*Nevada*
A lawyer for the Trump campaign alleges that 40,000 people voted twice in Nevada.

Voting machines were not secure or password protected, according to a Trump campaign attorney at a Dec. 3 court hearing, and votes disappeared on machines between logging off and logging in. However, they point out they cannot get access to the machines to examine and figure out why.

Watch the court hearing

There was an inexplicable jump in voter registrations with unusual addresses and incomplete information. That's according to an affidavit filed by a data scientist who said there was a “historically strange” spike of 13,000 voters who registered with missing information, such as gender and age. There were also registrations that used casinos and RV parks as their address.

The Trump campaign claims gift cards and other incentives given away in a a get-out-the-vote effort aimed at Native Americans was illegal. The organizing group says it is not.

Read More

Read More

Republicans say they identified several thousand voters who appear to have cast ballots after they moved from Nevada.

The Voter Integrity Project says 8,443 people who voted in Nevada did not meet the legal residency requirements.

At a hearing, the Trump campaign said over 1,500 ballots were cast by dead voters, 42,248 people voted more than once, of those who are on record as not voting: 1% actually did, and 2% of those who supposedly voted by mail say they never got a ballot.

*Pennsylvania*
Ballots of approximately 1,400 voters illegally listed postal facility addresses as residential. That’s according to Matt Braynard, of Trump’s 2016 election campaign. Braynard also says large percentages of registered Republicans say they voted absentee, while the state data indicates they didn’t.

A statistical analysis of New York Times data in Philadelphia claims a suspicious string of voting “ratios” benefitting Biden, as also happened in Georgia. By 11pm Election Day, Trump was leading Biden by about *285,000* votes. Then, 347,768 votes from somewhere dumped into the system in 44 batches in increments of approximately 6,000, 12,000, or 18,000 additional net votes for Biden. As a result, Biden came back from an election night deficit of 285,000 to a *46,000* vote win four days later.

Read More

Read More









1.8 million absentee ballots were mailed out for the 2020 election in Pennsylvania, but 2.5 million were counted, according to testimony at a Pennsylvania state hearing.

One incident recorded on video indicates 2,600 to 2,700 votes were not initially counted, that “ballots didn’t transfer over like they should have.” The voting machine company, Dominion, was troubleshooting, but nobody could explain.

Dominion Voting Systems’ executives canceled a planned appearance at a hearing in Pennsylvania on Nov. 20.

Read More

Read More

Registered Republicans requested 165,412 ballots that ultimately were not returned or counted. A statistical analysis determined up to nearly 54,000 ballots were improperly requested by someone other than the registered voter and sent to people who did not request them; and Republicans mailed up to nearly 45,000 ballots that did not ultimately get counted.

Read Declaration

A poll watching attorney in Pittsburgh, David Shestokas, says observers were kept from observing the ballot tabulations, saying the ballots are therefore illegal.

Read More

There were 47 missing USB cards, according to a poll worker.

Read More

A truck driver for a subcontractor with the U.S. Postal Service claims that a trailer he was driving with as many a 288,000 ballots disappeared from its parked location, at a Lancaster, Pa., USPS depot, after he dropped it off. He says he transported them from New York.

Read More

Gregory Stenstrom claims he saw a Dominion Voting Systems vendor inserting flash drives into voting aggregation machines in Delaware County, and co-mingling flash drives from aggregation machines, possibly hurting the ability of auditors to properly certify results, according to a Pennsylvania legislature hearing.

*Texas*
A social worker at the Mexia State Supported Living Centers in Texas is charged with illegally submitting 67 voter registration applications for people with intellectual and developmental disabilities without signatures or meaningful consent, including some who are not eligible because they are totally mentally incapacitated.

*Wisconsin*
Affidavits and statistical analyses allege more than 318,000 illegal ballots were counted, 15,000 mail-in ballots were lost, 18,000 were “fraudulently recorded” in the name of voters who never asked for mail-in ballots, 7,000 ineligible voters who had moved out of state voted illegally, Biden over performed in places using Dominion voting machines, and elections officials directed workers to "cure" or fix ballots with no witness address, or with voter certification missing on absentee ballot certificates and envelopes even though the law states such ballots are not to be counted, according to a lawsuit filed by Sidney Powell.

Read Sidney Powell lawsuit

A USPS subcontractor claims he was told the postal service planned. to improperly backdate tens of thousands of ballots after the Nov. 3 election.

Read More

Elections officials twice found batches of missing ballots in voting machines.

Read More

A disability service coordinator who works with adults in assisted living facilities and group homes in and around Milwaukee, says every one of her more than 20 clients told her that they were either pressured to vote for Biden or had a vote cast for Biden before they ever had a chance to see their ballot.

Read More

There were illegally altered and illegally issued absentee ballots; and government officials gave illegal advice to voters. That’s according to a Trump campaign filing.

The Trump campaign questions an estimated 238,420 ballots from two counties, Dane and Milwaukee, where election clerks filled in missing information on the certification envelope; where voters declared themselves “indefinitely confined”; and roughly 69,000 absentee ballots cast in person before Election Day. Biden won Wisconsin by about 20,000 votes.

There was a suspicious spike in voters registering as “indefinitely confined,” which allows them to be exempt from presenting a photo ID to vote. Year to year, the number of voters calling themselves "indefinitely confined” increased 238% from 72,000 to 243,900. UPDATE: Wisconsin's Supreme Court ruled in favor of Republicans in a lawsuit stating that coronavirus and stay-at-home orders were not legitimate reasons for voters to vote without ID as "indefinitely confined."

Read More

Nearly 400 absentee ballots that were not initially counted were later found. Officials blame "human error.”

Read More

A trickle of votes that had Trump in the lead all night suddenly shifted when 170,000 votes, 5% of the total state count, came in one giant dump 17 times larger than average. Before the dump, Trump was ahead by 108,000 votes. He fell behind by 9,000 votes an instant later.

All this doesnt include the fact that the whole election was flagged as illegit by use of Dominion machines in battleground states, having been proven to be connected to the internet.

There is also the very extensive Navarro Report >>



			https://bannonswarroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/The-Immaculate-Deception-12.15.20-1.pdf


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 23, 2022)

protectionist said:


> No, we have Biden tax rates (37% on the rich).
> For most of Reagan's years, we had 50-69% on the rich.


IT WAS JUST AS I SAID. REAGAN CUT IT FROM 70 TO 50 IN'82, THEN 28%. AND WE HAVEN'T HAD A FAIR COUNTRY SINCE. 37% IS A JOKE TOO...iF YOU COUNT ALL TAXES, RICH 25%, MIDDLE CLASS 26%. GREAT FECKING JOB, GOP! Did that get thru?


----------



## protectionist (Mar 23, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> IT WAS JUST AS I SAID. REAGAN CUT IT FROM 70 TO 50 IN'82, THEN 28%. AND WE HAVEN'T HAD A FAIR COUNTRY SINCE. 37% IS A JOKE TOO...iF YOU COUNT ALL TAXES, RICH 25%, MIDDLE CLASS 26%. GREAT FECKING JOB, GOP! Did that get thru?


Did it get through to you that Democrat presidents have had tax on the rich much lower than previous Republicans?  Obama, Biden, Clinton - all have low tax on rich.  Getting enough sleep?


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 23, 2022)

yawn.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 23, 2022)

protectionist said:


> It will take you about 2 weeks to read all these proofs (incl. links & sub-links), so after you've gone all through it, you THEN can comment in response.
> 
> *Arizona*
> An anonymous email sent to the Justice Department criminal division and Arizona legislature alleged that in Pima County, 35,000 votes were fraudulently embedded in advance of the election on behalf of each Democratic candidate at the local and federal level. The allegation coincides with a spike or "injection" of 143,000 votes noted at 8:06 p.m. on election night.
> ...


Wow, Steve Bannon. More made up shit. Don’t forget the baby eating stuff.


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 23, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Did it get through to you that Democrat presidents have had tax on the rich much lower than previous Republicans?  Obama, Biden, Clinton - all have low tax on rich.  Getting enough sleep?


Because the GOP has stopped them from raising them for 30 years. HELLO!!??!


----------



## scruffy (Mar 23, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Wow, Steve Bannon. More made up shit. Don’t forget the baby eating stuff.


That is SO fucking stupid it boggles the mind.

You have a hole the size of China in your electoral process, and all you can do is diss Steve Bannon?

Lefties are nuckin futz.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> So what?  Those profits pay for new hires, new equipment, modernizing and of course distributed among share holders who pay additional taxes on that same income.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The 3 years were simply a continuation of the recovery under obama.  The line graph lines up perfectly.  But the Trump administration's mishandling of covid caused the problems we are experiencing now.  And progressive tax policy is based upon one's ability to pay.  With the income gap ever widening, that burden must shift to the top of the income scale.   And as to new jobs in technology, Many who are being replaced by that technology haven't the ability to pay for the education necessary to join that workforce.  This whole new attitude of AYN Rand,  lesse faire , and let them eat cake is unAmerican and unsustainable. So you can take your "fuck em" bullshit and stick it. We are the only modern developed nation on the planet without Universal healthcare and that plays right into that whole philosophy of I've got mine now you get yours. And if it's as you put it, not government's job to fund our lifestyles it's certainly gov't's job to serve the people. And allowing folks to lose everything because of archaic healthcare policies and let it become the unbalanced mess that it is, is to shirk it's responsibility to the people. A country should be gauged by how it treats the lesser among us. You can pull out the "socialist" scare card all you want to but that's just a talking point taught to you fools by the owners of this country and this economy. What do we do about thousands of veterans living on the street? Fuck them too? I say, if the poor need to just figure it out for themselves about how to survive, then that same burden should be on Corporate America to figure out how to survive with a few billion less in profits. It was the working class that helped them build into the giant money machine that they've become. So, gunslinger, as you devise your next set of justifications to maintain the status quo, you'd better hope that you never get sick and owe your life to the system as it exists now.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

protectionist said:


> You can thank Biden for that.
> When Trump was president >>>
> 5. created 10 million jobs in 4 months, created over 400,000 manufacturing jobs,
> 6. unemployment claims hit 50 year low,
> ...


Where do you get your BS "facts" from?    I see you didn't bother to cite where that came from.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

protectionist said:


> cultural bigotry on display


Just trying to keep up with you racists.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

protectionist said:


> YOU are clueless.  Ike, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, all had higher tax rates on the rich than Clinton, Obama, and Biden.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are citing Marginal rates.  A very dishonest way to present the actual tax burden on the classes.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> If you don't want to own a gun, fine with us.  We support you because we Republicans believe in choice.  But if you don't want to own a gun, quit insisting the rest of us do the same.


Never said that you should not want a gun.  You tough guys should do what you want.  Talked about the problems of the untrained and mentally ill and the ease at which they can have access to weapons of war.  Talked about the proliferation of guns and it's relation to crime.  You want to blow your neighbors head off, go for it if it makes you feel like a man.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Our federal government was never designed to give you education, unions or healthcare. Our federal government was designed to govern.  You want anything outside of that, then get it yourself.  You're not helpless.


Then maybe the government should stop giving subsidies to corporate America.  See how that works?  Can't have it both ways.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Damned right, we want to limit it to only legally eligible citizens and to limit the easiest means of committing voter and voter registration fraud.


Of which there was none.  Did you forget that?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> And I have no problem with that.  But unless he's been out in the private market working jobs, he has no idea what he's talking about.
> 
> My former industry needs thousands of workers they can't find.  In transportation, you can make up to six figures if you want.  There are a lot of jobs in upper five figures.  My father is a retired bricklayer.  His union sends out solicitation to their retirees to help them find new bricklayers.  Granted construction is hard work, but Dad made a pretty good living and retirement for himself.  With benefits, bricklayers make over $50.00 an hour plus overtime, and up north, you are laid off all winter and collect unemployment. Still can't find anybody to take these jobs.
> 
> ...


You people do a whole lot of assuming.  LOL


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

protectionist said:


> It will take you about 2 weeks to read all these proofs (incl. links & sub-links), so after you've gone all through it, you THEN can comment in response.
> 
> *Arizona*
> An anonymous email sent to the Justice Department criminal division and Arizona legislature alleged that in Pima County, 35,000 votes were fraudulently embedded in advance of the election on behalf of each Democratic candidate at the local and federal level. The allegation coincides with a spike or "injection" of 143,000 votes noted at 8:06 p.m. on election night.
> ...


LOL.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Mar 24, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...


No I disagree Jo gun position is not a joke. He has the power to force millions of Americans to revolt and she'd his authoritarian reign of power from their lives.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 24, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Wow, Steve Bannon. More made up shit. Don’t forget the baby eating stuff.


Wanna take a QUIZ on all the stuff you didn't read ?  HAHA.  It would take you 2 weeks to read it. At least now you know all that jibberish you got from CNN/MSNBC/PBS about "no proof", was a lie.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

protectionist said:


> It will take you about 2 weeks to read all these proofs (incl. links & sub-links), so after you've gone all through it, you THEN can comment in response.
> 
> *Arizona*
> An anonymous email sent to the Justice Department criminal division and Arizona legislature alleged that in Pima County, 35,000 votes were fraudulently embedded in advance of the election on behalf of each Democratic candidate at the local and federal level. The allegation coincides with a spike or "injection" of 143,000 votes noted at 8:06 p.m. on election night.
> ...


60 plus courts have thrown this nonsense out.  Navarro report?  Might as well go with the Lindel report?  LOL And those who said that the voting machines were rigged are being sued as it should be.  Maybe a big money judgement will stop all of this nonsense. Fox, OAN, Pillow Guy et al understand what money is and they are in a panic to walk it all back.  I love it!!


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> 60 plus courts have thrown this nonsense out.  Navarro report?  Might as well go with the Lindel report?  LOL And those who said that the voting machines were rigged are being sued as it should be.  Maybe a big money judgement will stop all of this nonsense. Fox, OAN, Pillow Guy et al understand what money is and they are in a panic to walk it all back.  I love it!!


The only way this shit will end is when they reveal what exactly happened.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> The only way this shit will end is when they reveal what exactly happened.


That's just it.  We already know what happened, Nothing.  All a ruse and a Trump fantasy.  Designed to overthrow a free and fair election.  Remember, he said If I win I'll accept that, but If Biden wins, then I can't accept it. Or something along those lines.  And when he couldn't convince any court, he cooked up an armed insurrection.   Simple as that.   He's a fuckin' nut!


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

protectionist said:


> No, we have Biden tax rates (37% on the rich).
> For most of Reagan's years, we had 50-69% on the rich.


BS!  Closer to 27%


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Of which there was none.  Did you forget that?


Why do you feel such a need to lie constantly?  A great number of people have already been charged with voter fraud, some convicted and other cases still in progress.

There's no question that some of the states also violated their own laws with automatic mailings of ballots without request or verification.

People vote illegally in every election cycle and the same is true of voter registration fraud cases.

Someone who lies constantly isn't very entertaining and makes me highly question your claims of ever having been a Marine.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> You people do a whole lot of assuming.  LOL


No, we just pay attention to your claims.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> 60 plus courts have thrown this nonsense out.  Navarro report?  Might as well go with the Lindel report?  LOL And those who said that the voting machines were rigged are being sued as it should be.  Maybe a big money judgement will stop all of this nonsense. Fox, OAN, Pillow Guy et al understand what money is and they are in a panic to walk it all back.  I love it!!


Another side swipe of the truth.  One case was actually won on the merits, most were dismissed because the judge decided to dodge them by claiming they had no standing.

That is not a ruling on the merits of the case in any way.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 24, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> The only way this shit will end is when they reveal what exactly happened.


Yep, but the partisan sycophants like will never be convinced no matter what is proven.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> That's just it.  We already know what happened, Nothing.  All a ruse and a Trump fantasy.  Designed to overthrow a free and fair election.  Remember, he said If I win I'll accept that, but If Biden wins, then I can't accept it. Or something along those lines.  And when he couldn't convince any court, he cooked up an armed insurrection.   Simple as that.   He's a fuckin' nut!


How many people have been charged with insurrection?  How many convicted?  What weapons were found other than one guy with a handgun and plastic cuffs?

How many troops and cops were shot?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> BS!  Closer to 27%


Are you really this ignorant or just lying again?









						2022-2023 Federal Income Tax Brackets & Tax Rates - NerdWallet
					

There are seven income tax brackets, ranging from 10% to 37%. Which federal income tax bracket are you in? See how tax brackets work and how to cut your taxes.




					www.nerdwallet.com


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> You people do a whole lot of assuming.  LOL





Desert Texan said:


> Of course he has no idea what he's talking about which is par for the course.  We couldn't expect anything different nor could we expect him to be remotely honest about it.
> 
> For a supposed Marine that's odd.  Marines are supposed to live and die by their honor code.


Your lame attempts at insults don't work on me.  So, stow it.   Just a desperate attempt at hiding the fact that you are FOS.  You nutjobs talk about honesty while you turn a blind eye to the most prolific scumbag liar in history.  You like making assumptions.  Here's one.  You both voted for that scoundrel.  That's a point of honor you will live with for life.  Good luck with that Wyatt.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Your lame attempts at insults don't work on me.  So, stow it.   Just a desperate attempt at hiding the fact that you are FOS.  You nutjobs talk about honesty while you turn a blind eye to the most prolific scumbag liar in history.  You like making assumptions.  Here's one.  You both voted for that scoundrel.  That's a point of honor you will live with for life.  Good luck with that Wyatt.


Just more evidence of you lying your ass off because you have no facts to support any of your arguments.

You have no honor as you've repeatedly demonstrated so coming from you I'll take that as a compliment, "Marine".

You wouldn't make a bump on the ass of a decent Marine.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> How many people have been charged with insurrection?  How many convicted?  What weapons were found other than one guy with a handgun and plastic cuffs?
> 
> How many troops and cops were shot?


You can be an apologist for those nitwit traitors all you want.  You're in for a rude awakening.  Sometime the wheels of justice etc.  In your poor excuse for a mind, what was it?  Normal political discourse?  LOL  BTW Tex as we have discussed, there are other weapons beside guns.  Bear spray, flag poles, thrown objects etc.  Gee, you missed all of that? That's because you indoctrinated types are willfully blind.  And you intellectual powerhouses got that from a moronic scoundrel who apparently is slightly smarter than you.   Holy shit.  I've never seen someone who pretends to be smart and does such lamebrained things at the same time. But it's fun to watch.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Just more evidence of you lying your ass off because you have no facts to support any of your arguments.
> 
> You have no honor as you've repeatedly demonstrated so coming from you I'll take that as a compliment, "Marine".
> 
> You wouldn't make a bump on the ass of a decent Marine.


That shit again?  I guess you could keep trying to make that work but isn't that the definition of insanity?  You're a lightweight, Jesse.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> You can be an apologist for those nitwit traitors all you want.  You're in for a rude awakening.  Sometime the wheels of justice etc.  In your poor excuse for a mind, what was it?  Normal political discourse?  LOL  BTW Tex as we have discussed, there are other weapons beside guns.  Bear spray, flag poles, thrown objects etc.  Gee, you missed all of that? That's because you indoctrinated types are willfully blind.  And you intellectual powerhouses got that from a moronic scoundrel who apparently is slightly smarter than you.   Holy shit.  I've never seen someone who pretends to be smart and does such lamebrained things at the same time. But it's fun to watch.


Try answering the questions for a change.



> How many people have been charged with insurrection? How many convicted? What weapons were found other than one guy with a handgun and plastic cuffs?
> 
> How many troops and cops were shot?



Of course it wasn't "Normal Political DIscourse" any more than the BLM/Antifa riot that broke out on the capital grounds.

Insurrection is a very specific charge so again, who has been charged and/or convicted of "Insurrection"?

That should not be a difficult question for even you to answer.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

Are we having fun yet?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> That shit again?  I guess you could keep trying to make that work but isn't that the definition of insanity?  You're a lightweight, Jesse.


No, just an accurate description and observation.

You can't debate anything on the facts so you constantly spew nothing but lies and insults to cover up for your own failings.

Not at all difficult for any objective observer to see.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Are we having fun yet?


You aren't fun, you're not even interesting.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Try answering the questions for a change.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Somehow you are under the impression that I give a shit what you'd like me to do.  More of your delusions?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> You aren't fun, you're not even interesting.


Well for someone uninteresting, you sure are obsessed with me.  I think maybe you secretly love me.  Is that the case?  Are you a Peter Puffer?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 24, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> IT WAS JUST AS I SAID. REAGAN CUT IT FROM 70 TO 50 IN'82, THEN 28%. AND WE HAVEN'T HAD A FAIR COUNTRY SINCE. 37% IS A JOKE TOO...iF YOU COUNT ALL TAXES, RICH 25%, MIDDLE CLASS 26%. GREAT FECKING JOB, GOP! Did that get thru?


You seem to forget he eliminated hundreds of deductions, credits, and tax shelters in doing so and for the first time in history the wealthy started paying the bulk of all federal income taxes.



			https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/80inintravmatr.pdf
		


They still do.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Somehow you are under the impression that I give a shit what you'd like me to do.  More of your delusions?


No,  exposing then kicking around liars, frauds, and  bullies is just how I get my daily exercise.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> No,  exposing then kicking around liars, frauds, and  bullies is just how I get my daily exercise.


Keyboard warriors.  Whatcha gonna do


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

This is where the real inequality resides.  The Corporate Income rates.  And this is where we need to plug the holes and hold them responsible for their fair share. Btw my 27% was wrong it's 21%.  




__





						US corporate tax rates - Google Search
					





					www.google.com


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 24, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> The only way this shit will end is when they reveal what exactly happened.



Which won't happen until next year when we take the House.  Right now this is a dog and pony show to try and get Trump for something he could not even come close to be responsible for.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> You people do a whole lot of assuming.  LOL



Nope, it's as easy to find as using Google.  I was in the industry--you weren't.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Then maybe the government should stop giving subsidies to corporate America.  See how that works?  Can't have it both ways.



WTF do corporate subsidies have to do with government being your momma and pappa taking care of matters you should be taking care of yourself?  If you want an end to subsides, let's start with all the green tax dollars that fund solar panels, windmills and electric cars.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Never said that you should not want a gun.  You tough guys should do what you want.  Talked about the problems of the untrained and mentally ill and the ease at which they can have access to weapons of war.  Talked about the proliferation of guns and it's relation to crime.  You want to blow your neighbors head off, go for it if it makes you feel like a man.



There are no weapons of war, there are only weapons.  And who decides who is mentally ill or not, some leftist anti-gun shrink?  And if we accept that, how long before the Communists keep narrowing the definition of mental illness? 

You see the problem with your idea is leftists are evil, they can't be trusted with anything.  These are the same people who believe they have the right to force Americans to take medication they don't want or need.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> There are no weapons of war, there are only weapons.  And who decides who is mentally ill or not, some leftist anti-gun shrink?  And if we accept that, how long before the Communists keep narrowing the definition of mental illness?
> 
> You see the problem with your idea is leftists are evil, they can't be trusted with anything.  These are the same people who believe they have the right to force Americans to take medication they don't want or need.


Just keep on wallowing in your sheepdom.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> WTF do corporate subsidies have to do with government being your momma and pappa taking care of matters you should be taking care of yourself?  If you want an end to subsides, let's start with all the green tax dollars that fund solar panels, windmills and electric cars.


Taking over for your nitwit friend OL' Tex?  I don't take advice from those stupid enough to fall for Trumpism.  I consider that a mental illness.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Nope, it's as easy to find as using Google.  I was in the industry--you weren't.


I'm very impressed.  Expect your gold star in the mail.  Children  Ya can't kill em.  So whatcha gonna do.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Which won't happen until next year when we take the House.  Right now this is a dog and pony show to try and get Trump for something he could not even come close to be responsible for.


You are the very definition of a sucker.  That's what conmen count on.  LOL


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

Babies looking for daddy's approval.   It's embarrassing.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> I'm very impressed.  Expect your gold star in the mail.  Children  Ya can't kill em.  So whatcha gonna do.



Gold star?  WTF are you even talking about?  The discussion was about people being able to find good paying jobs.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Taking over for your nitwit friend OL' Tex?  I don't take advice from those stupid enough to fall for Trumpism.  I consider that a mental illness.



So who's giving you advice on anything?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Gold star?  WTF are you even talking about?  The discussion was about people being able to find good paying jobs.


No.  We were talking about a couple of assholes who think they are clever.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So who's giving you advice on anything?


Try to keep up there Clint.  You were telling me all about subsidies and what needs to be done.  You just can't help yourself.  What's your end game?  Looking like an even bigger bozo than Trump played you for?  You're workin' on it.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Try to keep up there Clint.  You were telling me all about subsidies and what needs to be done.  You just can't help yourself.  What's your end game?  Looking like an even bigger bozo than Trump played you for?  You're workin' on it.



So let's see here:  You were telling me about corporate subsidies, and I told you about green subsidies, but I'm a Bozo and not you.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> That's just it.  We already know what happened, Nothing.  All a ruse and a Trump fantasy.  Designed to overthrow a free and fair election.  Remember, he said If I win I'll accept that, but If Biden wins, then I can't accept it. Or something along those lines.  And when he couldn't convince any court, he cooked up an armed insurrection.   Simple as that.   He's a fuckin' nut!


That's a lie because the people who have told you all the lies for the past five years are still lying to you.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> No.  We were talking about a couple of assholes who think they are clever.



No, we were talking about people and jobs where you claimed the middle-class was no longer.  I responded by telling you there are a lot of good paying jobs around, but you have to get training for them and people are not doing that.  Instead, they turn nuts onto bolts or sweep floors for minimum wage.


----------



## Flash (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Never said that you should not want a gun.  You tough guys should do what you want.  Talked about the problems of the untrained and mentally ill and the ease at which they can have access to weapons of war.  Talked about the proliferation of guns and it's relation to crime.  You want to blow your neighbors head off, go for it if it makes you feel like a man.


You are confused.

I am a firearms instructor and a range officer.  I see all kinds of shooters.  Most of what I do on the range is teach and enforce gun safety so I pretty well know what I am talking about.

The thing that you don't seem to understand is that the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms is not merit based.  In fact the right is expressed as to not be allowed to be infringed upon.

We don't need or want stupid Liberals deciding who should have access to firearms and who shouldn't.  When they do they always go bat shit crazy overboard and be oppressive with the right.  Just looked at the oppressive gun control laws in the Democrat controlled states.

For instance, in New York those Libtard yokels passed that stupid SAFE Act.  A couple of weeks later a decorated veteran was arrested because he had an unloaded AR magazine in the trunk of his car.  No AR and no ammo but the government thugs arrested him because of what was presented as "reasonable gun control".  A few months later a guy went to see his doctor  for having insomnia and under the filthy SAFE Act "mental health" provisions the doctor felt compelled to report him to the government thugs.  The jackbooted government thugs came to his home and confiscated his firearms.  How fucking oppressive is that?

In New Jersey they have also have oppressive gun control laws that the stupid Liberals claim are reasonable.  A lady was traveling from Texas to Maine with a young child.  She carried a legally obtained pistol in her vehicle for protection.  She was arrested because having the pistol was against New Jersey's "reasonable" gun control laws.  There was no crime other than the infringing shitheads didn't think it was reasonable for her to have possession of the firearm.

I could give you many more examples of what you stupid assholes think are reason but aren't.

The last thing we need are liberals deciding how to run our lives because they will always do the wrong thing and we will have Liberties taken away.

I trust the people I see I at the gun range whom own AR-15s a lot more than I trust Liberal government shitheads and government thugs.

By the way, moron.  An AR-15 is not a weapon of war.  I know of no military in the world that uses AR-15s.   My 30 AR-15s are used for recreational purposes mostly.  They are are also available for self defense although I doubt I will ever use one for that.  They are also necessary for "the security of a free state", as envisioned by the guys that established this country and knew what they were talking about.


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 24, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> You seem to forget he eliminated hundreds of deductions, credits, and tax shelters in doing so and for the first time in history the wealthy started paying the bulk of all federal income taxes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Payroll taxes are now as much, and 47% don't pay fed income tax. And that's the tax the dupes are brainwashed to only think about. Count all taxes and everyone pays 27% on average and the nonrich get screwed again. Worst inequality and upward mobility ever and anywhere, super dupe...Great job!!


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

Flash said:


> You are confused.
> 
> I am a firearms instructor and a range officer.  I see all kinds of shooters.  Most of what I do on the range is teach and enforce gun safety so I pretty well know what I am talking about.
> 
> ...


Okay asshole, Or should I call you butthole.    An AR15 can be converted easily to mimic an M16.  Fully automatic.  That can't be done with a hunting rifle etc.  You have 30 AR's ?  What are you paranoid about?  And BTW your interpretation of the second amendment is just that, opinion.  It will be challenged in the future, you can bet on it.    You are just another gun nut idiot who thinks it makes him taller or some shit.  It doesn't.  It makes you look like what you are, A child trying to look like a bad ass.  Again, you're not.   Now, piss off!


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 24, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> No, we were talking about people and jobs where you claimed the middle-class was no longer.  I responded by telling you there are a lot of good paying jobs around, but you have to get training for them and people are not doing that.  Instead, they turn nuts onto bolts or sweep floors for minimum wage.


Might have something to do with expensive training and college....no sacrifice is too great to save the greedy idiot lying GOP megarich, super duper....


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> No, we were talking about people and jobs where you claimed the middle-class was no longer.  I responded by telling you there are a lot of good paying jobs around, but you have to get training for them and people are not doing that.  Instead, they turn nuts onto bolts or sweep floors for minimum wage.


What you don't want to understand is that NOT EVERYONE IS BUILT TO BE TECHNICAL, AND TO WORK FOR MIN WAGE IS TO LIVE IN ABJECT POVERTY.  I ask NOTHING for myself.  I do just fine.  I ask that we treat those not as fortunate with dignity and stop looking down our fuckin' noses at them as if they don't exist or even matter.  You have this attitude typical of many Trumpers.  No skills, having a hard time? Fuck ya, figure it out.   I'm a proud Liberal and you're an elitest asswipe.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> Might have something to do with expensive training and college....no sacrifice is too great to save the greedy idiot lying GOP megarich, super duper....


Thanks.  Yeah, the right and particularly Trumpers have taken on his image and his madness.  It is now just dandy to say, So what if my fellow man is falling further and further behind.  Let them find a way to come up with a ton of loot to retrain and those who can't be trained are shit outta luck.  And, so what if folks are going bankrupt and losing everything because of medical bills.  They chose to be poor.  Fuck em!  Not my problem.  And the greed of the corporations and the uber rich is present in both Party's but certainly more prevalent on the GOP side.  The meager attempts at leveling the playing field by Democrats are always met with massive resistance by the GOP.  And we've even got a couple of DINO's who have been bought off by monied interests and so all hope is lost.  We have become a divided nation and that division has tripled under the Trump administration. Not only by economic class but by race, sex, country of origin, religious affiliation and on and on.  And those who are Trump sheep are not only accept-ant of the situation but more than happy to help spread the venom.  Seems they feel more than, better than, more de-servant and entitled than and more dismissive of the struggles of their fellow man.  It's scary to think of what is happening and how our kids and theirs will fare in the future.  Drug prices will continue the climb, healthcare will become even more unavailable to everyone but the elite and families will continue to live under more and more pressure.  And the thing that would set us on a much needed different path is being vilified, labeled as communism, socialism, unaffordable  etc while the folks that continue to deny the working man a hand up are the first to grab it for themselves.  People have been sold a bill of goods that I never imagined would be bought by so many Americans,  Even those who need help badly have been trained to vote against their own interests time and time again. Rant over.


----------



## Flash (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Okay asshole, Or should I call you butthole.    An AR15 can be converted easily to mimic an M16.  Fully automatic.  That can't be done with a hunting rifle etc.  You have 30 AR's ?  What are you paranoid about?  And BTW your interpretation of the second amendment is just that, opinion.  It will be challenged in the future, you can bet on it.    You are just another gun nut idiot who thinks it makes him taller or some shit.  It doesn't.  It makes you look like what you are, A child trying to look like a bad ass.  Again, you're not.   Now, piss off!



If you convert an AR-15 into full auto then that is already a crime.

I have 30 ARs because I like to build and shoot them and it is none of your fucking business.  I have never used them for a crime and never have the intentions of doing it so you can go fuck yourself being a little pussy. You need to grow up and stop being an asshole concerned with what other people do.  Just like you stupid hate filled Moon Bats to try to run other people's lives.

There are a couple of cases before the Supreme Court now that may settle this issue forever if the Court has the courage to rule the right way.  The problem is that the Court has never ruled that State and Locals must apply Strict Scrutiny to gun laws.  In other words the government must have a really good reason to deny a citizen their Constitutional Right to Keep and Bear Arms.  The same level of scrutiny that we for freedom of religion and free speech.

Since the Court took the New York case and based upon the comments in the oral arguments it looks like the Court will be putting an end to all this Moon Bat infringement on the right to keep and bear arms and that is a good thing.

If you don't like the Consititonal Right to Keep and Bear then you have two choices; either move to another country or go fuck yourself.  That is one of the basic Liberties of this country.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> What you don't want to understand is that NOT EVERYONE IS BUILT TO BE TECHNICAL, AND TO WORK FOR MIN WAGE IS TO LIVE IN ABJECT POVERTY.  I ask NOTHING for myself.  I do just fine.  I ask that we treat those not as fortunate with dignity and stop looking down our fuckin' noses at them as if they don't exist or even matter.  You have this attitude typical of many Trumpers.  No skills, having a hard time? Fuck ya, figure it out.   I'm a proud Liberal and you're an elitest asswipe.



You leftists are so brain dead.  You think people create work so that others can have a job.  Got news for ya: that's not why jobs are created. 

If you don't like what some are paying their employees, open up a similar company and pay your employees what you want.  You'll be out of business within a year.  You don't understand competition. You don't understand business.  You don't understand the American consumer.  You can't compete against me paying your employees twice as much as I pay mine.  That's why no skill jobs pay what they do.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 24, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> Might have something to do with expensive training and college....no sacrifice is too great to save the greedy idiot lying GOP megarich, super duper....



Then you don't go to college.  Go to trade school.  Much cheaper, you graduate and get into the workforce much quicker, and you'll make more money over a lifetime. 

My employer sent his son to tractor-trailer school.  It cost him $2,500.  You can pay that back in a month once you start working.  School will even guarantee you a job upon graduation.  If you don't like that, some companies will train people to get a CDL for free if you sign a contract to work for them for one year.  

My father is another good example of this.  To be a bricklayer apprentice all you have to do is sign on the dotted line.  The union will get you a job, pay for all your schooling, and you will have a profession that pays very well, and all you have to do is buy your own tools which is under $100.00.  

Excuses are like assholes: everybody has one.  If you ever go to a library (which I doubt) ask the librarian where they keep the books written by successful excuse makers.  She'll just look at you with a confused face because all excuse makers are failures.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

Flash said:


> If you convert an AR-15 into full auto then that is already a crime.
> 
> I have 30 ARs because I like to build and shoot them and it is none of your fucking business.  I have never used them for a crime and never have the intentions of doing it so you can go fuck yourself being a little pussy. You need to grow up and stop being an asshole concerned with what other people do.  Just like you stupid hate filled Moon Bats to try to run other people's lives.
> 
> ...


You came at me, asshole.  The fact that you can't handle it shows who the fuckin' baby is.   Since you have so many ARs you can afford to stick one up your ass.  Don't forget the KY.  If your guns are none of my business, why did you bring it up? trying to impress me or yourself?  Just another gun nut moron.  Go fuck myself?  Shit, if I could do that, I'd never leave the house.  Like I said before, those guns won't make you taller or more manly or whatever your shortcoming is.  You can buy twenty more and you'll still be the Douchebag that you are.  Let's keep this going.  it's a hoot!


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You leftists are so brain dead.  You think people create work so that others can have a job.  Got news for ya: that's not why jobs are created.
> 
> If you don't like what some are paying their employees, open up a similar company and pay your employees what you want.  You'll be out of business within a year.  You don't understand competition. You don't understand business.  You don't understand the American consumer.  You can't compete against me paying your employees twice as much as I pay mine.  That's why no skill jobs pay what they do.


What makes you think I'm interested in a fuckin' thing you have to say?  Go back to getting off on a picture of The Donald.  Elitist shithead.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> What makes you think I'm interested in a fuckin' thing you have to say?



You probably are not.  That's why you remain ignorant and repeat the same stupid shit over and over.  When somebody tries to explain something to you, it's


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 24, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Then you don't go to college.  Go to trade school.  Much cheaper, you graduate and get into the workforce much quicker, and you'll make more money over a lifetime.
> 
> My employer sent his son to tractor-trailer school.  It cost him $2,500.  You can pay that back in a month once you start working.  School will even guarantee you a job upon graduation.  If you don't like that, some companies will train people to get a CDL for free if you sign a contract to work for them for one year.
> 
> ...


So your boss's kid was able to do it? Miss the point much? The GOP has screwed regular people, people didn't just get lazy and stupid like you dupes believe....


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 24, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You leftists are so brain dead.  You think people create work so that others can have a job.  Got news for ya: that's not why jobs are created.
> 
> If you don't like what some are paying their employees, open up a similar company and pay your employees what you want.  You'll be out of business within a year.  You don't understand competition. You don't understand business.  You don't understand the American consumer.  You can't compete against me paying your employees twice as much as I pay mine.  That's why no skill jobs pay what they do.


BS. Costco  and many others get good workers that attract customers, brainwashed functional slave driver. Welcome to miserable GOP 'Murica...


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Thanks.  Yeah, the right and particularly Trumpers have taken on his image and his madness.  It is now just dandy to say, So what if my fellow man is falling further and further behind.  Let them find a way to come up with a ton of loot to retrain and those who can't be trained are shit outta luck.  And, so what if folks are going bankrupt and losing everything because of medical bills.  They chose to be poor.  Fuck em!  Not my problem.  And the greed of the corporations and the uber rich is present in both Party's but certainly more prevalent on the GOP side.  The meager attempts at leveling the playing field by Democrats are always met with massive resistance by the GOP.  And we've even got a couple of DINO's who have been bought off by monied interests and so all hope is lost.  We have become a divided nation and that division has tripled under the Trump administration. Not only by economic class but by race, sex, country of origin, religious affiliation and on and on.  And those who are Trump sheep are not only accept-ant of the situation but more than happy to help spread the venom.  Seems they feel more than, better than, more de-servant and entitled than and more dismissive of the struggles of their fellow man.  It's scary to think of what is happening and how our kids and theirs will fare in the future.  Drug prices will continue the climb, healthcare will become even more unavailable to everyone but the elite and families will continue to live under more and more pressure.  And the thing that would set us on a much needed different path is being vilified, labeled as communism, socialism, unaffordable  etc while the folks that continue to deny the working man a hand up are the first to grab it for themselves.  People have been sold a bill of goods that I never imagined would be bought by so many Americans,  Even those who need help badly have been trained to vote against their own interests time and time again. Rant over.


The Murdoch/Internet conspiracy GOP base brainwash is strong and THE problem...


----------



## jasonnfree (Mar 24, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Then you don't go to college.  Go to trade school.  Much cheaper, you graduate and get into the workforce much quicker, and you'll make more money over a lifetime.
> 
> My employer sent his son to tractor-trailer school.  It cost him $2,500.  You can pay that back in a month once you start working.  School will even guarantee you a job upon graduation.  If you don't like that, some companies will train people to get a CDL for free if you sign a contract to work for them for one year.
> 
> ...


There aren't that many union jobs since Reagan. Still a lot of unions in city, state, federal jobs, yes.  But private industry, No.








						The Murder of the U.S. Middle Class Began 40 Years Ago This Week
					

Reagan’s firing of striking air traffic controllers was the first huge offensive in corporate America’s war on everyone else.




					theintercept.com


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 24, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> So your boss's kid was able to do it? Miss the point much? The GOP has screwed regular people, people didn't just get lazy and stupid like you dupes believe....


And most of those schools are basically scams after GOP deregulation...ditto W's online U's...


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 24, 2022)

jasonnfree said:


> There aren't that many union jobs since Reagan. Still a lot of unions in city, state, federal jobs, yes.  But private industry, No.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Who cares about unions?  Think you need some crooked union to make a living?  Tens of millions of Americans do great without them every day.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 24, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> So your boss's kid was able to do it? Miss the point much? The GOP has screwed regular people, people didn't just get lazy and stupid like you dupes believe....



A lot of people are able to do it, but it won't come knocking at your front door.  You have to put some effort, get off the dope to get these jobs which yes, most anybody can do.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 24, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Wanna take a QUIZ on all the stuff you didn't read ?  HAHA.  It would take you 2 weeks to read it. At least now you know all that jibberish you got from CNN/MSNBC/PBS about "no proof", was a lie.


So, QAnon set this quiz up ? The baby cannibal society.  


protectionist said:


> Wanna take a QUIZ on all the stuff you didn't read ?  HAHA.  It would take you 2 weeks to read it. At least now you know all that jibberish you got from CNN/MSNBC/PBS about "no proof", was a lie.


You must listen to Tucker every night. Take a night off.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 24, 2022)

scruffy said:


> That is SO fucking stupid it boggles the mind.
> 
> You have a hole the size of China in your electoral process, and all you can do is diss Steve Bannon?
> 
> Lefties are nuckin futz.


I’m stupid ? You’re the QAnon/Trump/ Breitbart / Humper..


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 24, 2022)

protectionist said:


> It will take you about 2 weeks to read all these proofs (incl. links & sub-links), so after you've gone all through it, you THEN can comment in response.
> 
> *Arizona*
> An anonymous email sent to the Justice Department criminal division and Arizona legislature alleged that in Pima County, 35,000 votes were fraudulently embedded in advance of the election on behalf of each Democratic candidate at the local and federal level. The allegation coincides with a spike or "injection" of 143,000 votes noted at 8:06 p.m. on election night.
> ...


All from Bannon. Save your energy. No one with half a brain buys your shit. Really, you 5hink I’m going to wast my time reading cut and paste of a moronic right wing tripe ? Nope.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You probably are not.  That's why you remain ignorant and repeat the same stupid shit over and over.  When somebody tries to explain something to you, it's


Anyone dumb enough to support Donald OJ Trump can't teach anyone anything.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Okay asshole, Or should I call you butthole.    An AR15 can be converted easily to mimic an M16.  Fully automatic.  That can't be done with a hunting rifle etc.  You have 30 AR's ?  What are you paranoid about?  And BTW your interpretation of the second amendment is just that, opinion.  It will be challenged in the future, you can bet on it.    You are just another gun nut idiot who thinks it makes him taller or some shit.  It doesn't.  It makes you look like what you are, A child trying to look like a bad ass.  Again, you're not.   Now, piss off!


lol

Challenge all you want, now and in the future.

It won't make an iota of difference.

Not even the smallest smidgeon.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 24, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> I’m stupid ? You’re the QAnon/Trump/ Breitbart / Humper..


No, actually, I'm a parent.

And you're full of shit for even making a dumbass accusation like that. Reflects on you, not me. All my friends know who and what I am. You don't. So sod off with your leftist bullshit. You give all lefties a bad name with this crap.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Who cares about unions?  Think you need some crooked union to make a living?  Tens of millions of Americans do great without them every day.


What a fuckin' ignorant ass.   Millions did much better WITH Unions too.  So dismissive of anything that doesn't smack of elitism. It's like Ayn Rand had a sex change. WTF kind of sausage heads have adopted this Trumpian attitude?  Can't see beyond your devotion to a major league traitorous scoundrel.  The wheels of justice will catch up to your god at some point.  Even an eel loses his slime eventually.   Then your job will be to explain how you got it so wrong, at least to yourself.  But you'll probably opt to deny even when the truth is revealed beyond even the doubt of the indoctrinated.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

scruffy said:


> lol
> 
> Challenge all you want, now and in the future.
> 
> ...


So nice to have your permission.  Fuckin' tool.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> What a fuckin' ignorant ass.   Millions did much better WITH Unions too.  So dismissive of anything that doesn't smack of elitism. It's like Ayn Rand had a sex change. WTF kind of sausage heads have adopted this Trumpian attitude?  Can't see beyond your devotion to a major league traitorous scoundrel.  The wheels of justice will catch up to your god at some point.  Even an eel loses his slime eventually.   Then your job will be to explain how you got it so wrong, at least to yourself.  But you'll probably opt to deny even when the truth is revealed beyond even the doubt of the indoctrinated.



It's really common sense, something you on the left seem to be void of. 

Employees at a company go union.  To cover the new increased wages and benefits, the company has to charge more for their products. 

Because they have to charge more, they can't compete with foreign entities.  It's what caused many companies to move out of the US in the first place.  

The jobs move overseas with the company, and those workers no longer have a place to work.  

So is it better to have a job that doesn't pay great or no job at all?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

scruffy said:


> No, actually, I'm a parent.
> 
> And you're full of shit for even making a dumbass accusation like that. Reflects on you, not me. All my friends know who and what I am. You don't. So sod off with your leftist bullshit. You give all lefties a bad name with this crap.


Still buying into the "Big Steal!" fallacy?  To deny that you have been affected by Conspiracy theories sold by the lunatic right while still peddling that election nonsense makes you a tool or a fool.  Your choice.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 24, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It's really common sense, something you on the left seem to be void of.
> 
> Employees at a company go union.  To cover the new increased wages and benefits, the company has to charge more for their products.
> 
> ...


When there were many labor unions in America, companies still did great and so did the workers.  When you eliminate unionization you unbalance the scale.  More elitist Bullshit.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Anyone dumb enough to support Donald OJ Trump can't teach anyone anything.



Of course we can.  Under Trump we had a record high in median household income, reasonable fuel prices, a much more secure border, a stronger military than under DumBama, inflation under 2%.  

The people dumb enough to not support him are paying the price today:  gasoline prices doubled and going higher, a labor shortage that caused a supply chain shortage, on the verge of a nuclear war with Russia, a porous border the worst in 20 years according to the Border Patrol, inflation the worst it's been in 40 years, and the only thing Dementia built back better was the Taliban now with 83 billion dollars in US military equipment.  

So who are the dumb people now?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> When there were many labor unions in America, companies still did great and so did the workers.  When you eliminate unionization you unbalance the scale.  More elitist Bullshit.



If we didn't eliminate unions you would just have more jobs leaving the country. The ones that couldn't leave would have invested in more automation, the number one jobs killer in the US.  WTF would ever make anybody think that if they unionized, a company will just have to sit there and take it?  Unions were a bubble like the tech bubble, like the housing bubble.  All bubbles burst.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Of course we can.  Under Trump we had a record high in median household income, reasonable fuel prices, a much more secure border, a stronger military than under DumBama, inflation under 2%.
> 
> The people dumb enough to not support him are paying the price today:  gasoline prices doubled and going higher, a labor shortage that caused a supply chain shortage, on the verge of a nuclear war with Russia, a porous border the worst in 20 years according to the Border Patrol, inflation the worst it's been in 40 years, and the only thing Dementia built back better was the Taliban now with 83 billion dollars in US military equipment.
> 
> So who are the dumb people now?


Trump's economy was simply a continuation of the Obama economy but with deregulations allowing companies to pollute freely.  And even then he managed to fuck up by his moronic Covid response.   And the withdrawal from Affy is so easy to criticize.  No clean or easy way to exit a war zone, that was proven in Vietnam.  And it's so easy to forget Trump's withdrawal from Syria.  Left our allies to be slaughtered by Turkey from the east and Russia from the north.  But the Trump clan doesn't want to talk about that.  Convenient as hell.  He literally did a favor for Erdogon and his daddy, Putin.  And to suggest that Trump was tougher on him or would have a winning response for the Ukraine invasion because Putin feared him, is absurd.  He didn't fear him.  Trump was doing for him everything he ever dreamed of.  Alienating our NATO aligned partners and even threatened to pull out of NATO altogether.  Denied that Putin interfered in our elections and even denigrated our Intel agencies on the world stage.  And as the invasion in Ukraine started Trump Praised him for his "Genius!" For you to not put two and two together after that is the very signature of an indoctrinated fool.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 25, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> So nice to have your permission.  Fuckin' tool.


You misunderstand.

I'm just going to ignore you.

I don't need your permission either.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> If we didn't eliminate unions you would just have more jobs leaving the country. The ones that couldn't leave would have invested in more automation, the number one jobs killer in the US.  WTF would ever make anybody think that if they unionized, a company will just have to sit there and take it?  Unions were a bubble like the tech bubble, like the housing bubble.  All bubbles burst.


Let them leave!  There will be plenty of start ups to fill the void.  And if they don't want to treat those who built their fortunes with dignity, Fuck Em. Openings for new companies as the unAmerican corporations fled would be the dream of many an investor. That's part of the overall problem.  Corporations have far too much political power and we shouldn't let them dictate policy and by doing so, determine how the working man will live.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 25, 2022)

scruffy said:


> You misunderstand.
> 
> I'm just going to ignore you.
> 
> I don't need your permission either.


Don't let the door hitcha!


----------



## scruffy (Mar 25, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Don't let the door hitcha!


lol

I'm calling the leftist bluff.

You're going to have to come get them.

And you won't do that.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 25, 2022)

scruffy said:


> lol
> 
> I'm calling the leftist bluff.
> 
> ...


WTF are you blabbering about?


----------



## scruffy (Mar 25, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> WTF are you blabbering about?


Cause you know what will happen if you do.

lol 

We're just having a nice friendly philosophical discussion, that's all.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 25, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Let them leave!  There will be plenty of start ups to fill the void.  And if they don't want to treat those who built their fortunes with dignity, Fuck Em. Openings for new companies as the unAmerican corporations fled would be the dream of many an investor. That's part of the overall problem.  Corporations have far too much political power and we shouldn't let them dictate policy and by doing so, determine how the working man will live.



Yeah, let them leave.  Well many did, that's why we were so Fd when we got hit with covid.  We didn't have any PPE, and we had to wait for companies outside of the US to make it and they sure didn't put the US first as if they were making it here.  

There are no US startups because a US company can't compete price wise with any foreign entity as I tried to explain to you.  Try it yourself and see what happens.  The US consumer will always opt for a cheaper product every time.  How do you think Walmart made it to number one?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 25, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Trump's economy was simply a continuation of the Obama economy but with deregulations allowing companies to pollute freely.  And even then he managed to fuck up by his moronic Covid response.   And the withdrawal from Affy is so easy to criticize.  No clean or easy way to exit a war zone, that was proven in Vietnam.  And it's so easy to forget Trump's withdrawal from Syria.  Left our allies to be slaughtered by Turkey from the east and Russia from the north.  But the Trump clan doesn't want to talk about that.  Convenient as hell.  He literally did a favor for Erdogon and his daddy, Putin.  And to suggest that Trump was tougher on him or would have a winning response for the Ukraine invasion because Putin feared him, is absurd.  He didn't fear him.  Trump was doing for him everything he ever dreamed of.  Alienating our NATO aligned partners and even threatened to pull out of NATO altogether.  Denied that Putin interfered in our elections and even denigrated our Intel agencies on the world stage.  And as the invasion in Ukraine started Trump Praised him for his "Genius!" For you to not put two and two together after that is the very signature of an indoctrinated fool.



So you deny Putin was smart?  He waited until our leadership was weak enough for him to safely attack Ukraine.  Trump was too balsey.  He was afraid of what Trump would do because Trump was pro-American.  And do you think Dementia took our allies in Afghanistan with us?  He didn't even take Americans with us.  He took the military out first and then tried to leave.  What a buffoon.  Even his ass kissing Generals told him not to do something that stupid and he didn't listen. 

So how did Trump fuckup the covid response?  And don't tell me what Trump said, show me what Trump did.  Trump had less covid deaths under his watch even though DumBama cleaned out our PPE and never replaced it than Dementia did with three Trump vaccines that Trump didn't have yet.  And yes, that deregulation and lowering taxes on our job producers DID help create the economy we enjoyed right up until Dementia's buddies in China sent us their flu.  

Now that Dementia stopped the Keystone, stopped new oil exploration and drilling on public land, put more costly regulations in place, he put Putin in the drivers seat.  So how is your green now that we are looking at a potential nuclear war?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So you deny Putin was smart?  He waited until our leadership was weak enough for him to safely attack Ukraine.  Trump was too balsey.  He was afraid of what Trump would do because Trump was pro-American.  And do you think Dementia took our allies in Afghanistan with us?  He didn't even take Americans with us.  He took the military out first and then tried to leave.  What a buffoon.  Even his ass kissing Generals told him not to do something that stupid and he didn't listen.
> 
> So how did Trump fuckup the covid response?  And don't tell me what Trump said, show me what Trump did.  Trump had less covid deaths under his watch even though DumBama cleaned out our PPE and never replaced it than Dementia did with three Trump vaccines that Trump didn't have yet.  And yes, that deregulation and lowering taxes on our job producers DID help create the economy we enjoyed right up until Dementia's buddies in China sent us their flu.
> 
> Now that Dementia stopped the Keystone, stopped new oil exploration and drilling on public land, put more costly regulations in place, he put Putin in the drivers seat.  So how is your green now that we are looking at a potential nuclear war?


Could you possibly be any more delusional?   I'm gonna call you Comrade from this point.   Could you be any more anti-American?  Fuck off you traitorous asshole.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 25, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Cause you know what will happen if you do.
> 
> lol
> 
> We're just having a nice friendly philosophical discussion, that's all.


I'm so scared!  Please stop!  I don't think I can take it anymore.  Fuckin' Clown.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 25, 2022)

What a bunch of 8 year olds on this thread,  Little smiley faces, little animations and Imoges.  I suppose that's supposed to mean something intellectual.  It doesn't.  Adults won't take you serious if you act like babies.  It's so easy to see why you all became Trump sheep.  So easily led by your little childish noses.  How does it feel to be such suckers?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 25, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> What a bunch of 8 year olds on this thread,  Little smiley faces, little animations and Imoges.  I suppose that's supposed to mean something intellectual.  It doesn't.  Adults won't take you serious if you act like babies.  It's so easy to see why you all became Trump sheep.  So easily led by your little childish noses.  How does it feel to be such suckers?



You don't understand.  We do that because we know it irritates people like you.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 25, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Could you possibly be any more delusional?   I'm gonna call you Comrade from this point.   Could you be any more anti-American?  Fuck off you traitorous asshole.



I'm pro-American.  That's why I hate the Democrat party.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You don't understand.  We do that because we know it irritates people like you.


Okay little fella.  Cute little Comrade.  I'm pinching your little cheeks through the screen.  You're adorable.  Now if you could stop being a spoiled brat you might actually seem normal.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I'm pro-American.  That's why I hate the Democrat party.


Hate away.  We love it when you do that.  Comrade.   Putin loves you just the way you are.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 25, 2022)

Can't wait til when gas prices fall again so mysteriously like they always do.  They'll probably credit Trump for that.  Just can't help themselves.  Silly little comrade lambs that they are.  It's a hoot.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 25, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Can't wait til when gas prices fall again so mysteriously like they always do.  They'll probably credit Trump for that.  Just can't help themselves.  Silly little comrade lambs that they are.  It's a hoot.



The only way that will happen is if Dementia adopts Trump's successful policies. But don't count on that.  His and the Communist parties' goals are to do everything opposite Trump.  That's why the country is in this bad of shape.  

Prices are going to rise even higher, just like the cost of living.  Dementia signed away another 1.5 trillion dollars of debt for your green dream.  It's only going to get worse from here--not better.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The only way that will happen is if Dementia adopts Trump's successful policies. But don't count on that.  His and the Communist parties' goals are to do everything opposite Trump.  That's why the country is in this bad of shape.
> 
> Prices are going to rise even higher, just like the cost of living.  Dementia signed away another 1.5 trillion dollars of debt for your green dream.  It's only going to get worse from here--not better.


Everything opposite Trump.  Now that's a winning strategy for America.  Trump is a winning strategy for big daddy Putin and hatred, and division.  You've gotta pay attention little Comrade.  I know you love your big Orange blowhard Daddy but daddy is a fuckin' Nut!


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 25, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Everything opposite Trump.  Now that's a winning strategy for America.  Trump is a winning strategy for big daddy Putin and hatred, and division.  You've gotta pay attention little Comrade.  I know you love your big Orange blowhard Daddy but daddy is a fuckin' Nut!









That Putin shit is getting as old as the racism shit on your side.  Try to come up with something new and not outdated.  Trump didn't kiss Putin's ass and allow him to run his pipeline making Europe dependent on them, Dementia did that.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 25, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> The only way this shit will end is when they reveal what exactly happened.


I did that.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 25, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Just more evidence of you lying your ass off because you have no facts to support any of your arguments.
> 
> You have no honor as you've repeatedly demonstrated so coming from you I'll take that as a compliment, "Marine".
> 
> You wouldn't make a bump on the ass of a decent Marine.


You are coming to the realization that I came to - that he isn't worth talking to.  That's why I stopped reading his posts.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 25, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> Payroll taxes are now as much, and 47% don't pay fed income tax. And that's the tax the dupes are brainwashed to only think about. Count all taxes and everyone pays 27% on average and the nonrich get screwed again. Worst inequality and upward mobility ever and anywhere, super dupe...Great job!!


So are you telling Biden to raise taxes on the rich ? - up from his miniscule 37%. ? Obama's was even lower (35% for 4 years)


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 25, 2022)

protectionist said:


> You are coming to the realization that I came to - that he isn't worth talking to.  That's why I stopped reading his posts.


You stopped because your ass was getting kicked.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 25, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> Might have something to do with expensive training and college....no sacrifice is too great to save the greedy idiot lying GOP megarich, super duper....


During the Trump administration, vocational training topped 4 million - highest ever in US history.  And he got $ 250 Million/year to black colleges.

CNN didn't tell you ?  What a surprise.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 25, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> You stopped because your ass was getting kicked.


The only ass you've ever kicked is your own.

You're a liar, a fraud, and a man with no honor whatsoever and you've exposed it all for the world to see.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> View attachment 621312
> 
> That Putin shit is getting as old as the racism shit on your side.  Try to come up with something new and not outdated.  Trump didn't kiss Putin's ass and allow him to run his pipeline making Europe dependent on them, Dementia did that.


If anyone has dementia, it's your Orange Cult Leader.  He's shown that on a hundred different occasions.   The fact that you ignored that is a product of your indoctrination.   History will prove one of us right on Russia and unfortunately that someone isn't you.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 25, 2022)

protectionist said:


> During the Trump administration, vocational training topped 4 million - highest ever in US history.  And he got $ 250 Million/year to black colleges.
> 
> CNN didn't tell you ?  What a surprise.


And of course Black Unemployment hit it's all time low since those stat's have been kept, the black middle class expanded faster than anytime in history as well.

We weren't being lied to when we were told, "A rising tide floats all boats".


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 25, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> The only ass you've ever kicked is your own.
> 
> You're a liar, a fraud, and a man with no honor whatsoever and you've exposed it all for the world to see.


Where have you been?  I missed you so much, Clint.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 25, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> If anyone has dementia, it's your Orange Cult Leader.  He's shown that on a hundred different occasions.   The fact that you ignored that is a product of your indoctrination.   History will prove one of us right on Russia and unfortunately that someone isn't you.


If you' had any sense of honor or self respect you'd crawl back in your hole and hope this thread dies.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 25, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> And of course Black Unemployment hit it's all time low since those stat's have been kept, the black middle class expanded faster than anytime in history as well.
> 
> We weren't being lied to when we were told, "A rising tide floats all boats".


Again, that was just a continuation of the Obama economy that he brought back to life after the last Republican screwed it up royally.  And Trump still managed to fuck it up with his moronic handling of Covid.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 25, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> If you' had any sense of honor or self respect you'd crawl back in your hole and hope this thread dies.


Told you before.  That shit doesn't work on me.  When are you gonna understand that you are a lightweight, Pardner?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 25, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Again, that was just a continuation of the Obama economy that he brought back to life after the last Republican screwed it up royally.  And Trump still managed to fuck it up with his moronic handling of Covid.


Right, Obama gets credit for everything good that happened during Trump's term but no responsibility for anything bad that followed his policies.

Of course during his two terms everything bad that happened was blamed on Bush for 8 consecutive years.

Amazing you folks are so gullible and ignorant and can still manage to feed yourselves.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 25, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Told you before.  That shit doesn't work on me.  When are you gonna understand that you are a lightweight, Pardner?


Of course no, you are a dishonorable son of a bitch and apparently don't mind displaying it for the whole world to see.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 25, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Right, Obama gets credit for everything good that happened during Trump's term but no responsibility for anything bad that followed his policies.
> 
> Of course during his two terms everything bad that happened was blamed on Bush for 8 consecutive years.
> 
> Amazing you folks are so gullible and ignorant and can still manage to feed yourselves.


You idiots spent those eight years trying to drum up false charges on Obama without a bit of success.  But we will make a bunch of Trump's crimes stick.  Because his were of the real variety. Just watch!


----------



## protectionist (Mar 25, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> So your boss's kid was able to do it? Miss the point much? The GOP has screwed regular people, people didn't just get lazy and stupid like you dupes believe....


You have a fixation on the GOP, those 3 letters mentioned in about every one of your posts. What you don't have (as is typical of information-deprived victims of liberal OMISSION media), is much of any knowledge of what's been happening in recent years.

GOP screwed regular people, you think ?  Man, are you ever DUPED. Wanna buy a bridge in Brooklyn ?

TRUMP ACCOMPLISHMENTS

 5. created 10 million jobs in 4 months, created over 400,000 manufacturing jobs,
6. unemployment claims hit 50 year low, 
7. lowest unemployment for blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and disabled in US history, 8.lowest unemployment for women in over 70 years,
9. lowest unemployment rate ever recorded for Americans without a high school diploma,
10. 4 million Americans off food stamps,
11. vocational training topped 4 million - highest ever,
12. highest median wage in US history . 
13. Obamacare individual mandate penalty GONE,
14. FDA approved more affordable generic drugs than ever before in history. > drug companies are freezing or reversing planned price increases,
15. reformed the Medicare program to stop hospitals from overcharging low-income seniors on their drugs—saving seniors hundreds of millions of dollars,
17. $6 billion in NEW funding to fight the opioid epidemic (the most ever),
34. created 8,700 Opportunity Zones with investment incentives for companies to invest in distressed communities
42. increased wages for military personnel
43. Through the COVID pandemic, our Covid mortality rate was REDUCED from over 17,000/week in April. to about 2000/week in June. and remained very low throughout the year, as a result of the many smart things that the president has done.  90% REDUCTION.    >  HUGE SUCCESS
52. fast, continual development of a vaccine, and rapid success of Operation Warp Speed.
55.  Got $ 250 Million/year to black colleges.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 25, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Of course no, you are a dishonorable son of a bitch and apparently don't mind displaying it for the whole world to see.


Now there ya go again, Clint.  You keep breaking out the pea shooter and I'll keep returning fire with an M16.  You are no match for me.  When are you gonna get that?  It's quite sad to watch your feeble attempts.  Lightweight Lightweight  have you any wool.   Yeah, all sheep have wool.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 25, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Again, that was just a continuation of the Obama economy that he brought back to life after the last Republican screwed it up royally.  And Trump still managed to fuck it up with his moronic handling of Covid.


What specifically is it he was supposed to do that wasn't done?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 25, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Now there ya go again, Clint.  You keep breaking out the pea shooter and I'll keep returning fire with an M16.  You are no match for me.  When are you gonna get that?  It's quite sad to watch your feeble attempts.  Lightweight Lightweight  have you any wool.   Yeah, all sheep have wool.


What's sad is that you appear to be so delusional as to believe what you're preaching no matter how often you show yourself to be a fool, a fraud, and a liar.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 25, 2022)

protectionist said:


> You have a fixation on the GOP, those 3 letters mentioned in about every one of your posts. What you don't have (as is typical of information-deprived victims of liberal OMISSION media), is much of any knowledge of what's been happening in recent years.
> 
> GOP screwed regular people, you think ?  Man, are you ever DUPED. Wanna buy a bridge in Brooklyn ?
> 
> ...


Source?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 25, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> What's sad is that you appear to be so delusional as to believe what you're preaching no matter how often you show yourself to be a fool, a fraud, and a liar.


For an idiot Trump sheep to call anyone a liar as you worship the most prolific liar in history is again, sad.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 25, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> What a bunch of 8 year olds on this thread,  Little smiley faces, little animations and Imoges.  I suppose that's supposed to mean something intellectual.  It doesn't.  Adults won't take you serious if you act like babies.  It's so easy to see why you all became Trump sheep.  So easily led by your little childish noses.  How does it feel to be such suckers?


Who's the sucker?

You're the one who wants to spend time ànd money on meaningless legislation that no one will ever obey.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 25, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> For an idiot Trump sheep to call anyone a liar as you worship the most prolific liar in history is again, sad.


Once again making a fool of yourself.  I didn't vote for him either time and won't if he runs again.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 25, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Who's the sucker?
> 
> You're the one who wants to spend time ànd money on meaningless legislation that no one will ever obey.


It's a truly sad thing to watch.  I want to feel sorry for him but can't.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 25, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> You idiots spent those eight years trying to drum up false charges on Obama without a bit of success.  But we will make a bunch of Trump's crimes stick.  Because his were of the real variety. Just watch!


Stupid leftie. ^^^

Democrats will be TROUNCED this election.

And next.

And next.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 25, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> What specifically is it he was supposed to do that wasn't done?


Well, start with his purposefully lying about Covid and its seriousness.   That was uncovered when he confessed that to Bob Woodward in an interview.  He wanted the testing to stop or be drastically reduced so that, in his words, "Less testing fewer cases!"  Moron.  Then he pushed for ridiculous treatments and cures like injecting bleach or breathing disinfectant, or shining a light in the body.  HA HA etc.  Pushed Hydroxychloroquin as a cure, belittled scientists who actually know how to handle viruses. Fucked with the CDC over and over.  Kept a steamship from disembarking its passengers so it wouldn't look bad on a numbers report.  Did you forget those things?  How about, "just like magic, it will disappear!?  That was a good one.  Are you fuckin' nuts?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 26, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Stupid leftie. ^^^
> 
> Democrats will be TROUNCED this election.
> 
> ...


Maybe, that has been the historic pattern of midterms.  But folks are tiring of Trumpism and we'll see.  Even the propaganda networks are starting to grow weary of his madness and trumpist congress people.  We still have 7 months to make our case.  Don't count your chickens, Clint.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 26, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Of course no, you are a dishonorable son of a bitch and apparently don't mind displaying it for the whole world to see.


That from a little lamb being led around by the nose by an idiot scoundrel.  How does it feel being dumber than the biggest moron ever to occupy a political position.


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 26, 2022)

protectionist said:


> You have a fixation on the GOP, those 3 letters mentioned in about every one of your posts. What you don't have (as is typical of information-deprived victims of liberal OMISSION media), is much of any knowledge of what's been happening in recent years.
> 
> GOP screwed regular people, you think ?  Man, are you ever DUPED. Wanna buy a bridge in Brooklyn ?
> 
> ...


yes, his greatest thing was not wrecking obama's revovery. and then he did lol...


----------



## protectionist (Mar 26, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> yes, his greatest thing was not wrecking obama's revovery. and then he did lol...


Poor Information-deprived liberal screws up another one.  Your media never showed you the famous V-GRAPH.  It's about time you found out.  Obama's last 2 years were a GDP SINKING failure.  Trump's first 2 years, rescued us from that, with INCREASING GDPs.
You're welcome.  No need to be DUPED ignorant any longer.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 26, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> *Well, start with his purposefully lying about Covid and its seriousness*.   That was uncovered when he confessed that to Bob Woodward in an interview.  He wanted the testing to stop or be drastically reduced so that, in his words, "Less testing fewer cases!"  Moron.  *Then he pushed for ridiculous treatments and cures like injecting bleach or breathing disinfectant, or shining a light in the body.*  HA HA etc.  Pushed Hydroxychloroquin as a cure, belittled scientists who actually know how to handle viruses. Fucked with the CDC over and over.  *Kept a steamship from disembarking its passengers so it wouldn't look bad on a numbers report*.  Did you forget those things?  How about, "just like magic, it will disappear!?  That was a good one.  Are you fuckin' nuts?


You lie to smear Trump claiming he lies.

Brilliant, absolutely fucking brilliant.

The US total Covid Case mortality rate is 1.2%, approximately the same as a bad outbreak of H1N1.

Total mortality rate for the country?  .295%
Total mortality for the 1918 Spanish flu in the US? .658%

So just as he said, similar to a bad year of The Flu.  Of course the symptoms for colds, flu, and Covid are so similar as to often be indistinguishable without testing too.

The second is an absolute lie, he never said shit about injecting bleach.

UV Bronchoscopy was at the time already being explored by one of the top research hospitals in the world, MDA.

The same hospital was experimenting with pulmonary lavage treatments using an idodine mist for another condition at the same time not to mention we've been using Iodine both internally to treat lesions in the mouth, trachea/throat and esophagus for a century and Sodium Iodide IV for almost as long.

The people were quarantined on the damned cruise ship to keep them from spreading it ashore you idiot.



> "just like magic, it will disappear!?



That's what happens with every pandemic, sooner or later they all end.  Thankfully Omicron has spread like fire leaving long lasting immunity to all strains for those exposed.

Now, can you answer my question?

What needed to be done that wasn't?  What measures could he have taken that were not taken which would have had an impact on the pandemic.  Again, be specific.

At worst he's guilty of trying to avoid unnecessarily panicking the public, rather than as Fauci did lying to them because he was more concerned with health care worker's safety than that of average Americans trying to buy masks to help slow/stop the spread to protect themselves and their families.

Then explain for us why more people died of Covid during Bidens' reign than during the Trump Administration when Biden had all the tools in place thanks to the previous administration including vaccines ready to go and a distribution system already in place to get them to the state health authorities and more than a year's lead time on available treatments that the previous administration did not have.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 26, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> yes, his greatest thing was not wrecking obama's revovery. and then he did lol...


How so precisely?  What did Trump do specifically to wreck "Obama's Recovery"?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 26, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Maybe, that has been the historic pattern of midterms.  But folks are tiring of Trumpism and we'll see.  Even the propaganda networks are starting to grow weary of his madness and trumpist congress people.  We still have 7 months to make our case.  Don't count your chickens, Clint.


You have no case to make other than warning your fellow dem's to man the life boats.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 26, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> You lie to smear Trump claiming he lies.
> 
> Brilliant, absolutely fucking brilliant.
> 
> ...


More excuse making.  "Less testing-  Fewer cases, right?   He's responsible for at least 200,000 unnecessary deaths with all of his encouraging folks not to wear masks and holding maskless rallies in the midst of the pandemic.   And he did suggest injecting Disinfectants which he later tried to walk back.  Bleach is a disinfectant.  Manufacturers of bleach products were so concerned that they issued press releases to tell folks not to drink or inject bleach.  Avoid panicking?  Yeah, that was his excuse but his effort to hide the numbers and hold rallies demonstrates that he's a madman who didn't give a shit about the people until he got Corona himself and even then it took him a while to tell folks to wear masks.  Biden had to convince people that they should be vaccinated because trump and his clowns were saying not to.  Biden had to overcome the stupidity of Trumpian nonsense and had to issue mandates because by that time Covid was spreading like wildfire and new variants were appearing.  If left up to Trump, there would probably be two million dead.  Indistinguishable from flu without testing.  I agree.  But trump did everything in his sick mind to discourage testing so his numbers would look better.  You love that screwball so much?  Please keep him but don't let him out among normal people.   And that whole Herd immunity thing that you advocate is the kind of thing that can cost many lives, you fuckin' stupid fuck!   We're talking about nearly a million dead and you make claims about any form of covid being helpful?  We wouldn't have gotten to the numbers we had without that kind of dangerous rhetoric and propaganda.  Trump cared about healthcare workers?  If he did he wouldn't have held rallies all over while belittling folks for wearing masks.  Trump cares about Trump   Period!   Have I ever told you that you are an idiot and a sucker?  If not, I just did.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 26, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> You have no case to make other than warning your fellow dem's to man the life boats.


We'll see.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 26, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Once again making a fool of yourself.  I didn't vote for him either time and won't if he runs again.


Oh, pardon me.  How could I have made such an assumption?  LOL   Give me a break.   You defend every screwup he makes and every and lie he spews.  Face it.  You're a little lamb who keeps his nose stuck to papa rams ass.  It's embarrassing.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 26, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Oh, pardon me.  How could I have made such an assumption?  LOL   Give me a break.   You defend every screwup he makes and every and lie he spews.  Face it.  You're a little lamb who keeps his nose stuck to papa rams ass.  It's embarrassing.


lol

You're not so bad. As far as liberals go, you're okay.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 26, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> More excuse making.  "Less testing-  Fewer cases, right?   He's responsible for at least 200,000 unnecessary deaths with all of his encouraging folks not to wear masks and holding maskless rallies in the midst of the pandemic.   And he did suggest injecting Disinfectants which he later tried to walk back.  Bleach is a disinfectant.  Manufacturers of bleach products were so concerned that they issued press releases to tell folks not to drink or inject bleach.  Avoid panicking?  Yeah, that was his excuse but his effort to hide the numbers and hold rallies demonstrates that he's a madman who didn't give a shit about the people until he got Corona himself and even then it took him a while to tell folks to wear masks.  Biden had to convince people that they should be vaccinated because trump and his clowns were saying not to.  Biden had to overcome the stupidity of Trumpian nonsense and had to issue mandates because by that time Covid was spreading like wildfire and new variants were appearing.  If left up to Trump, there would probably be two million dead.  Indistinguishable from flu without testing.  I agree.  But trump did everything in his sick mind to discourage testing so his numbers would look better.  You love that screwball so much?  Please keep him but don't let him out among normal people.   And that whole Herd immunity thing that you advocate is the kind of thing that can cost many lives, you fuckin' stupid fuck!   We're talking about nearly a million dead and you make claims about any form of covid being helpful?  We wouldn't have gotten to the numbers we had without that kind of dangerous rhetoric and propaganda.  Trump cared about healthcare workers?  If he did he wouldn't have held rallies all over while belittling folks for wearing masks.  Trump cares about Trump   Period!   Have I ever told you that you are an idiot and a sucker?  If not, I just did.


Now you're just fabricating bullshit again.  Trump never told people not to wear masks and you can't even show one excess death occurred among those going maskless.

A mask wouldn't do squat for you anyhow without a face mask since there's a direct pathway from your eyes to the sinuses.

Lots of things are "disinfectants" such as Iodine and UV light, both of which are shown to be highly effective at killing the virus.

The Mortality rate from Omicron is less than that of the Flu and about the same as the common cold, around 1:40,000 people and those are people who were already on the verge of death from other conditions who were likely to die from any new respiratory infection.

All you have are lies and seething hatred to offer.

You cannot show where Trump ever told people not to get tested, that's just another lie.

Herd immunity is how you stop a pandemic you idiot and the fastest way to achieve it is with Omicron which has very mild symptoms and leaves people with better, stronger, lasting immunity than any of the vaccines.





__





						CDC report: natural immunity stronger than vaccines alone during delta wave
					





					www.msn.com
				




Natural immunity has shown to be 6x stronger and much longer lasting than immunity from any of the vaccines.

You're simply lying again, Trump never told people not to get vaccinated and you know it.  He's been widely criticized by the anti vaxx nutters for still promoting the vaccine so why are you lying again?










						Study finds Omicron infection effectively induces immunity against itself and enhances protection against other variants in vaccinated individuals
					

Researchers investigated the effectiveness of the SARS-CoV-2 Omicron-variant induced immunity, whether it is cross-protective against other variants, and if earlier infection with the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant offers protection against Omicron.




					www.news-medical.net


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 26, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Oh, pardon me.  How could I have made such an assumption?  LOL   Give me a break.   You defend every screwup he makes and every and lie he spews.  Face it.  You're a little lamb who keeps his nose stuck to papa rams ass.  It's embarrassing.


There you go lying again. When he was wrong I said so and still do.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 26, 2022)

scruffy said:


> lol
> 
> You're not so bad. As far as liberals go, you're okay.


Sad and pathetic but so obvious as to never be a danger.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 26, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Now you're just fabricating bullshit again.  Trump never told people not to wear masks and you can't even show one excess death occurred among those going maskless.
> 
> A mask wouldn't do squat for you anyhow without a face mask since there's a direct pathway from your eyes to the sinuses.
> 
> ...


You're so full of shit that you can't wear a hat.    You'll believe any horse hooey that Trump and his clown posse step in.  He has you silly geese hanging on every moronic word he says.  When will you robots understand that you are backing the biggest loser in American history?  The lowest of the low and the dumbest of the dumb.  And you folks are obviously two steps below him on the stupid scale.  It's gonna be a revelation when reality strikes you all of a sudden and you have to face the fact that you are the easiest of marks.  You accuse me of lying and what I have to say about that is whatever I've said that you find fault with is close enough to the truth for you fools.  You have no gauge by which to distinguish one from the other because you have been conditioned to believe any fuckin' thing.  I've gotta say though you Sheep are an interesting flock, as flocks go.   You managed to turn off most of your senses so you can maintain the fallacy that you will die trying to justify.   Your guy is a monster and a fraud and yes. I do hate that traitorous fuck.  He earns every bit of it.  And I'm not too fond of his apologists like you fools either.  A sad bunch of reality deniers.  Snap out of it or you're gonna have some Splainin' to do, to your family, friends and yourselves.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 26, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> There you go lying again. When he was wrong I said so and still do.


Oh sure you do...... LOL


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 26, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> And of course Black Unemployment hit it's all time low since those stat's have been kept, the black middle class expanded faster than anytime in history as well.
> 
> We weren't being lied to when we were told, "A rising tide floats all boats".


But you were sure lied to when he kept referring to it as the "Middle Class" Tax cuts.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 26, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> But you were sure lied to when he kept referring to it as the "Middle Class" Tax cuts.


There you go lying yet again.

The Middle class got the largest break in rates.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 26, 2022)

scruffy said:


> lol
> 
> You're not so bad. As far as liberals go, you're okay.


It's an automatic reflex unfortunately.  He just can't help himself.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 26, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> You're so full of shit that you can't wear a hat.    You'll believe any horse hooey that Trump and his clown posse step in.  He has you silly geese hanging on every moronic word he says.  When will you robots understand that you are backing the biggest loser in American history?  The lowest of the low and the dumbest of the dumb.  And you folks are obviously two steps below him on the stupid scale.  It's gonna be a revelation when reality strikes you all of a sudden and you have to face the fact that you are the easiest of marks.  You accuse me of lying and what I have to say about that is whatever I've said that you find fault with is close enough to the truth for you fools.  You have no gauge by which to distinguish one from the other because you have been conditioned to believe any fuckin' thing.  I've gotta say though you Sheep are an interesting flock, as flocks go.   You managed to turn off most of your senses so you can maintain the fallacy that you will die trying to justify.   Your guy is a monster and a fraud and yes. I do hate that traitorous fuck.  He earns every bit of it.  And I'm not too fond of his apologists like you fools either.  A sad bunch of reality deniers.  Snap out of it or you're gonna have some Splainin' to do, to your family, friends and yourselves.




I don't "accuse" I prove you are lying over and over and over and over.

Perhaps this will ease the sting a bit?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 26, 2022)

For anyone interested, here is a timely breakdown of how Covid was dealt with by Trump and by Biden. 
Comparing Trump and Biden on COVID-19


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 26, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> I don't "accuse" I prove you are lying over and over and over and over.
> 
> Perhaps this will ease the sting a bit?
> View attachment 621387


I'm not touching that stuff.  I heard Pence rubbed that shit on his ass and half of the Trump Administration disappeared. You know, like they did a few times as each was exposed for being corrupt or unwilling to go along with The traitor's master plan. If Trump hadn't been away playing golf, he would have been the first casualty.    Biden has formed a committee to investigate all of that.  Look it up.  It's called U.S. v Dingleberry.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 26, 2022)

scruffy said:


> No, actually, I'm a parent.
> 
> And you're full of shit for even making a dumbass accusation like that. Reflects on you, not me. All my friends know who and what I am. You don't. So sod off with your leftist bullshit. You give all lefties a bad name with this crap.


Spoken like a true Humper and QAnon babbler.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 26, 2022)

scruffy said:


> *No, actually, I'm a parent.*
> 
> And you're full of shit for even making a dumbass accusation like that. Reflects on you, not me. All my friends know who and what I am. You don't. So sod off with your leftist bullshit. You give all lefties a bad name with this crap.


Be careful. Humpers are parents of munchkins. All dillusional followers of the wiz of lies.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It's really common sense, something you on the left seem to be void of.


The only common sense argument....


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 26, 2022)

Here's the REAL DEAL truth of the SO-NAMED "Middle Class tax cuts"    Righties take note:  









						Trump’s Corporate Tax Cut Is Not Trickling Down
					

Business investment is slowing, despite lofty promises, and worker bonuses were a mirage.




					www.americanprogress.org


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 26, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> I'm not touching that stuff.  I heard Pence rubbed that shit on his ass and half of the Trump Administration disappeared. You know, like they did a few times as each was exposed for being corrupt or unwilling to go along with The traitor's master plan. If Trump hadn't been away playing golf, he would have been the first casualty.    Biden has formed a committee to investigate all of that.  Look it up.  It's called U.S. v Dingleberry.


Oh good lord please do, you're nothing but a lying raging blind partisan hemorrhoid on the ass of mankind.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 26, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Be careful. Humpers are parents of munchkins. All dillusional followers of the wiz of lies.


I call him "Lord of the Lies"  Both are fitting comparisons of the near hypnotic blind loyalty to a sham and a fraud of the first order.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 26, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Here's the REAL DEAL truth of the SO-NAMED "Middle Class tax cuts"    Righties take note:
> 
> 
> 
> ...













						IRS data proves Trump tax cuts benefited middle, working-class Americans most
					

Republicans’ 2017 tax reform law did exactly what was promised: It lowered taxes for all income groups.




					news.yahoo.com
				




  ​


----------



## scruffy (Mar 26, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Spoken like a true Humper and QAnon babbler.


Iggy.

Talk about worthless babble...


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 26, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> I call him "Lord of the Lies"  Both are fitting comparisons of the near hypnotic blind loyalty to a sham and a fraud of the first order.


Quite fitting for the guy you see in the mirror every morning.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 26, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Iggy.
> 
> Talk about worthless babble...


But if you do that you're going to miss all the entertainment between now and election night when the real screaming begins.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 26, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Be careful. Humpers are parents of munchkins. All dillusional followers of the wiz of lies.


You're a sick little fuck, aren't you?

Just like a vicious little liberal, goes after the children.

Fuck you. I hope we meet in a dark alley someday.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 26, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Oh good lord please do, you're nothing but a lying raging blind partisan hemorrhoid on the ass of mankind.


Those are fightin' words, Clint.   I'll give you a chance to make things right!  Call me MISTER Hemorrhoid.  And I'll refer to you as Ass Eater.  See!   Didn't need that cream after all.  It's a win win.  I get rid of my GOP ass grapes and you enjoy a very filling lunch.  Bon Apatite!  And while yer havin' yer lunch, have the decency to give me a reach around.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 26, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Those are fightin' words, Clint.   I'll give you a chance to make things right!  Call me MISTER Hemorrhoid.  And I'll refer to you as Ass Eater.  See!   Didn't need that cream after all.  It's a win win.  I get rid of my GOP ass grapes and you enjoy a very filling lunch.  Bon Apatite!  And while yer havin' yer lunch, have the decency to give me a reach around.


I yield to your obvious anal expertise.  Glad you have found your place in life.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 26, 2022)

scruffy said:


> You're a sick little fuck, aren't you?
> 
> Just like a vicious little liberal, goes after the children.
> 
> Fuck you. I hope we meet in a dark alley someday.


He hopes so too.  He knows all about your legendary mouth.  But what's that there Orange stuff on yer lips?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 26, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> I yield to your obvious anal expertise.  Glad you have found your place in life.


And I'm glad fer you too Clint!  Who says there's no such thing as a free lunch?  Guess we proved them rascals wrong.  I'm also available for dinners and dancin'


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 26, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Quite fitting for the guy you see in the mirror every morning.


I don't have any mirrors.  I'm always afraid I might fall in love.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 26, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> IRS data proves Trump tax cuts benefited middle, working-class Americans most
> 
> 
> Republicans’ 2017 tax reform law did exactly what was promised: It lowered taxes for all income groups.
> ...


The Hill?   LOL  Now there's an unbiased source fer ya.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 26, 2022)

From QUORA: From what I’ve seen, The Hill’s news reporting is pretty even handed and accurate, although the site is considered to be slightly right leaning.

However, they also employ John Solomon as their executive VP of digital video and as a columnist. With a strong background in investigative journalism,_* his work of late has descended into promoting baseless conspiracy theories, like the widely discredited Uranium One. I’ve seen stories of his promoted by the right-wing media in the past couple of years that have fallen apart under scrutiny.*_


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Mar 26, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> From QUORA: From what I’ve seen, The Hill’s news reporting is pretty even handed and accurate, although the site is considered to be slightly right leaning.
> 
> However, they also employ John Solomon as their executive VP of digital video and as a columnist. With a strong background in investigative journalism,_* his work of late has descended into promoting baseless conspiracy theories, like the widely discredited Uranium One. I’ve seen stories of his promoted by the right-wing media in the past couple of years that have fallen apart under scrutiny.*_


Quara? Seriously?  Anyone can answer a question on Quora and do so anonymously.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 26, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> Quara? Seriously?  Anyone can answer a question on Quora and do so anonymously.


All it proves is that if you want to support any position including if pigs can fly, you can find it.  And anyone who challenges that source better stand by because there will be a hundred more.  Nature of the beast.  Especially since the GOP has created such division.  A wise man keeps his eyes and ears open and his mind as well and you can figure it out.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 26, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> More excuse making.  "Less testing-  Fewer cases, right?   He's responsible for at least 200,000 unnecessary deaths with all of his encouraging folks not to wear masks and holding maskless rallies in the midst of the pandemic.   And he did suggest injecting Disinfectants which he later tried to walk back.  Bleach is a disinfectant.  Manufacturers of bleach products were so concerned that they issued press releases to tell folks not to drink or inject bleach.  Avoid panicking?  Yeah, that was his excuse but his effort to hide the numbers and hold rallies demonstrates that he's a madman who didn't give a shit about the people until he got Corona himself and even then it took him a while to tell folks to wear masks.  Biden had to convince people that they should be vaccinated because trump and his clowns were saying not to.  Biden had to overcome the stupidity of Trumpian nonsense and had to issue mandates because by that time Covid was spreading like wildfire and new variants were appearing.  If left up to Trump, there would probably be two million dead.  Indistinguishable from flu without testing.  I agree.  But trump did everything in his sick mind to discourage testing so his numbers would look better.  You love that screwball so much?  Please keep him but don't let him out among normal people.   And that whole Herd immunity thing that you advocate is the kind of thing that can cost many lives, you fuckin' stupid fuck!   We're talking about nearly a million dead and you make claims about any form of covid being helpful?  We wouldn't have gotten to the numbers we had without that kind of dangerous rhetoric and propaganda.  Trump cared about healthcare workers?  If he did he wouldn't have held rallies all over while belittling folks for wearing masks.  Trump cares about Trump   Period!   Have I ever told you that you are an idiot and a sucker?  If not, I just did.



When did Trump ever encourage people not to wear masks?  He did state masks were not necessary, but that was before covid became a problem in this country; a time where Piglosi encouraged people to go to China town, and DeBlasio told people to ride the subway and go shopping.  When it became a problem in this country, Trump encouraged people to wear masks and even said it was patriotic to do so.  However Trump left that choice up to the people.  That's why he had no mask mandates at is get togethers.  

And when did Trump encourage people not to get the vaccine he worked so hard for to get?  It was Dementia and Whorris who said they'd never take a vaccine under Trump.  

The biggest super spreader in this country was Dementia opening up the border to anybody who wanted to come in, untested, un-vaxed, and then he bused or flew those diseased immigrants all across the country coast to coast.


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 26, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> How so precisely?  What did Trump do specifically to wreck "Obama's Recovery"?


Worst Covid reaction anywhere and led the world's nutjobs fighting reality DUH....


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> When did Trump ever encourage people not to wear masks?  He did state masks were not necessary, but that was before covid became a problem in this country; a time where Piglosi encouraged people to go to China town, and DeBlasio told people to ride the subway and go shopping.  When it became a problem in this country, Trump encouraged people to wear masks and even said it was patriotic to do so.  However Trump left that choice up to the people.  That's why he had no mask mandates at is get togethers.
> 
> And when did Trump encourage people not to get the vaccine he worked so hard for to get?  It was Dementia and Whorris who said they'd never take a vaccine under Trump.
> 
> The biggest super spreader in this country was Dementia opening up the border to anybody who wanted to come in, untested, un-vaxed, and then he bused or flew those diseased immigrants all across the country coast to coast.


Funny how the Trump/Murdoch etc base believes vax and masks etc are a hoax and conspiracy eh? Trump has said everything at one point or another lol...They said they wouldn't take Trump's word alone, super dupe. Only ignoramuses would.....


----------



## miketx (Mar 26, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> More excuse making.  "Less testing-  Fewer cases, right?   He's responsible for at least 200,000 unnecessary deaths with all of his encouraging folks not to wear masks and holding maskless rallies in the midst of the pandemic.   And he did suggest injecting Disinfectants which he later tried to walk back.  Bleach is a disinfectant.  Manufacturers of bleach products were so concerned that they issued press releases to tell folks not to drink or inject bleach.  Avoid panicking?  Yeah, that was his excuse but his effort to hide the numbers and hold rallies demonstrates that he's a madman who didn't give a shit about the people until he got Corona himself and even then it took him a while to tell folks to wear masks.  Biden had to convince people that they should be vaccinated because trump and his clowns were saying not to.  Biden had to overcome the stupidity of Trumpian nonsense and had to issue mandates because by that time Covid was spreading like wildfire and new variants were appearing.  If left up to Trump, there would probably be two million dead.  Indistinguishable from flu without testing.  I agree.  But trump did everything in his sick mind to discourage testing so his numbers would look better.  You love that screwball so much?  Please keep him but don't let him out among normal people.   And that whole Herd immunity thing that you advocate is the kind of thing that can cost many lives, you fuckin' stupid fuck!   We're talking about nearly a million dead and you make claims about any form of covid being helpful?  We wouldn't have gotten to the numbers we had without that kind of dangerous rhetoric and propaganda.  Trump cared about healthcare workers?  If he did he wouldn't have held rallies all over while belittling folks for wearing masks.  Trump cares about Trump   Period!   Have I ever told you that you are an idiot and a sucker?  If not, I just did.


You're A F--ING LIAR.


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 26, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> You have no case to make other than warning your fellow dem's to man the life boats.


Change the channel for crying out loud arghhh....tax the rich and invest in America again....


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> When did Trump ever encourage people not to wear masks?  He did state masks were not necessary, but that was before covid became a problem in this country; a time where Piglosi encouraged people to go to China town, and DeBlasio told people to ride the subway and go shopping.  When it became a problem in this country, Trump encouraged people to wear masks and even said it was patriotic to do so.  However Trump left that choice up to the people.  That's why he had no mask mandates at is get togethers.
> 
> And when did Trump encourage people not to get the vaccine he worked so hard for to get?  It was Dementia and Whorris who said they'd never take a vaccine under Trump.
> 
> The biggest super spreader in this country was Dementia opening up the border to anybody who wanted to come in, untested, un-vaxed, and then he bused or flew those diseased immigrants all across the country coast to coast.


Yeah but yeah but...  What a child.  When it bacame a problem?  Are you serious?  He knew it was a deadly virus but said nothing about its seriousness and sold the idea that it was gonna just disappear even after the CDC warned of what was about to happen.  Right from the git go he discouraged taking precautions.  He purposefully neglected to wear a mask in the debates and belittled scientists because,  "Nobody knows viruses better than I do!" His usual narcissistic lunacy. And you bought it all like a good little lamb.  Shameful.  You'll have to live with all of that.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 26, 2022)

miketx said:


> You're A F--ING LIAR.


And you're a fuckin' Bah bah er.  Have you any wool?  Yes sir yes sir a windbag full.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 26, 2022)

Looks like I've got me another Cowpoke playmate.  Bring it gunslinger.  When you're not busy poking cows or kissin' orange ass.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 26, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Yeah but yeah but...  What a child.  When it bacame a problem?  Are you serious?  He knew it was a deadly virus but said nothing about its seriousness and sold the idea that it was gonna just disappear even after the CDC warned of what was about to happen.  Right from the git go he discouraged taking precautions.  He purposefully neglected to wear a mask in the debates and belittled scientists because,  "Nobody knows viruses better than I do!" His usual narcissistic lunacy. And you bought it all like a good little lamb.  Shameful.  You'll have to live with all of that.



I have no problem living with that.  Do you have a problem with more Americans dying from covid under Dementia, that he ran out of testing equipment with no excuse in the world other than incompetence, that he let millions of drifters into our country some who likely had covid and God knows what other diseases, that the Supreme Court stopped him from vaccine mandates?  

You see all you leftist have is "what Trumps said" but the science tells us viruses don't listen to what anybody says, they react to what people do.  H1N1 was deadly, Ebola was deadly, but nobody locked down the country over it.  In fact DumBama used all our PPE over H1N1 and never replaced it, just left the shelves empty.


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I have no problem living with that.  Do you have a problem with more Americans dying from covid under Dementia, that he ran out of testing equipment with no excuse in the world other than incompetence, that he let millions of drifters into our country some who likely had covid and God knows what other diseases, that the Supreme Court stopped him from vaccine mandates?
> 
> You see all you leftist have is "what Trumps said" but the science tells us viruses don't listen to what anybody says, they react to what people do.  H1N1 was deadly, Ebola was deadly, but nobody locked down the country over it.  In fact DumBama used all our PPE over H1N1 and never replaced it, just left the shelves empty.


people of the gop base did not vax and died....great job


----------



## scruffy (Mar 26, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> He hopes so too.  He knows all about your legendary mouth.  But what's that there Orange stuff on yer lips?


Really? I'm a legend?

Wow... (pats self on back)


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 26, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Really? I'm a legend?
> 
> Wow... (pats self on back)


Oh yeah!  There are rumors that you can suck a golf ball through a garden hose.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I have no problem living with that.  Do you have a problem with more Americans dying from covid under Dementia, that he ran out of testing equipment with no excuse in the world other than incompetence, that he let millions of drifters into our country some who likely had covid and God knows what other diseases, that the Supreme Court stopped him from vaccine mandates?
> 
> You see all you leftist have is "what Trumps said" but the science tells us viruses don't listen to what anybody says, they react to what people do.  H1N1 was deadly, Ebola was deadly, but nobody locked down the country over it.  In fact DumBama used all our PPE over H1N1 and never replaced it, just left the shelves empty.


More yeah but yeah but!  Why do you sheep refuse to acknowledge that Trump is an idiot?   It's always about the other guy.   You have been sucked into a denial culture created by all of the constant lies by your Idol.  Some have even claimed that Trump has a 150 IQ.  I think you righties forgot to leave out the 1.  Person Woman Man Camera Tv!!  This is your genius?  Watch this cringe worthy interview and then tell me all about Biden's Dementia.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 26, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> More yeah but yeah but!  Why do you sheep refuse to acknowledge that Trump is an idiot?   It's always about the other guy.   You have been sucked into a denial culture created by all of the constant lies by your Idol.  Some have even claimed that Trump has a 150 IQ.  I think you righties forgot to leave out the 1.  Person Woman Man Camera Tv!!  This is your genius?  Watch this cringe worthy interview and then tell me all about Biden's Dementia.



So WTF is this about and what does it have to do with what we were discussing?  

You leftists do this all the time.  When losing a debate, just change the subject or move the goal posts.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 27, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So WTF is this about and what does it have to do with what we were discussing?
> 
> You leftists do this all the time.  When losing a debate, just change the subject or move the goal posts.


I stopped reading after "Trump is an idiot".


----------



## protectionist (Mar 27, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> How so precisely?  What did Trump do specifically to wreck "Obama's Recovery"?


No need to ask. His ludicrous post was already obliterated in Post # 849.


----------



## protectionist (Mar 27, 2022)

scruffy said:


> I stopped reading after "Trump is an idiot".


I stopped reading him (Wickerthing) a bit before that.  Guys like him do nothing but fck up a forum like this.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 27, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So WTF is this about and what does it have to do with what we were discussing?
> 
> You leftists do this all the time.  When losing a debate, just change the subject or move the goal posts.


Projecting again?  You Trumpers love to say over and over that Biden has Dementia.  So you can pass the blame for how Trump mishandled Covid onto him.   So I ask you to watch the interview I posted to see for yourself what real dementia looks and sounds like.  And to let you see just who and what you clowns have somehow given the label of Genius and to deflect his idiocy onto others.  And to let you see what Severe narcissistic disorder looks like.  And lastly, to show how terrible he is at lying and by extension how gullible you sheep are.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 27, 2022)

scruffy said:


> I stopped reading after "Trump is an idiot".


That's your autonomic response to having to admit you are enamored with a fool.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 27, 2022)

protectionist said:


> I stopped reading him (Wickerthing) a bit before that.  Guys like him do nothing but fck up a forum like this.


Yeah, we screw up your embarrassing love fest for the biggest scam artist of all time.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 27, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> That's your autonomic response to having to admit you are enamored with a fool.


No, it means you're a retarded little troll who calls everyone who disagrees with him a Trump lover.

You're so full of shit you give sewers a bad name.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 27, 2022)

scruffy said:


> No, it means you're a retarded little troll who calls everyone who disagrees with him a Trump lover.
> 
> You're so full of shit you give sewers a bad name.


Whether you voted for him or not, it's obvious that you've fallen under his spell.   That makes you a Trump sheep and one of the suckers born every minute that PT Barnum talked about.  BTW   That's Big troll to you.


----------



## scruffy (Mar 27, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Whether you voted for him or not, it's obvious that you've fallen under his spell.   That makes you a Trump sheep and one of the suckers born every minute that PT Barnum talked about.  BTW   That's Big troll to you.


Iggy.

You're worthless.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 27, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> I call him "Lord of the Lies"  Both are fitting comparisons of the near hypnotic blind loyalty to a sham and a fraud of the first order.


Good one.
The only reason Trump munchkins can have for siding with a notorious liar, is commonality. His munchkins share the same shared “values” or lack there of. How many times do we have read these guys follow Trump in-their support of Putin and hang on to the big lie to realize they are anti American ? They have grown a little silent of late as Putin continues to bomb hospitals. But, that will be just temporary if and when the war is over.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 27, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Projecting again?  You Trumpers love to say over and over that Biden has Dementia.  So you can pass the blame for how Trump mishandled Covid onto him.   So I ask you to watch the interview I posted to see for yourself what real dementia looks and sounds like.  And to let you see just who and what you clowns have somehow given the label of Genius and to deflect his idiocy onto others.  And to let you see what Severe narcissistic disorder looks like.  And lastly, to show how terrible he is at lying and by extension how gullible you sheep are.



I don't have time to watch your stupid cut up videos. Everybody knows Biden isn't right in the head.  Again, how did Trump screw up covid when Dementia had more deaths under his watch than Trump?  You  puppets are so brainwashed you can't think for yourselves.  You are told to say things but not why you should be saying them.  A compete moron can see our country was in much better hands than under this clown.  Gasoline over twice the price, border in the worst shape in over 20 years, inflation the worst it's been in 40 years, interest rates rising, on the brink of a war with another nuclear armed country that already threatened us with nukes, a labor shortage that led to a supply chain shortage. The country under this Bozo is a complete mess.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 27, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I don't have time to watch your stupid cut up videos. Everybody knows Biden isn't right in the head.  Again, how did Trump screw up covid when Dementia had more deaths under his watch than Trump?  You  puppets are so brainwashed you can't think for yourselves.  You are told to say things but not why you should be saying them.  A compete moron can see our country was in much better hands than under this clown.  Gasoline over twice the price, border in the worst shape in over 20 years, inflation the worst it's been in 40 years, interest rates rising, on the brink of a war with another nuclear armed country that already threatened us with nukes, a labor shortage that led to a supply chain shortage. The country under this Bozo is a complete mess.


No time?  Couldn't be for another reason, right?  LOL


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 27, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Iggy.
> 
> You're worthless.


Good one.  I'm so wounded.  LOL


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 27, 2022)

We liberals are so brainwashed?  A complete fraud and conman with severe narcissistic disorder and a plan to become a despot was able to indoctrinate a cadre of fools with no critical thinking skills.  It starts with the opening move of every tyrant that came before him.  Destroy the people's faith in the press.  Never let up on that mantra because that is the necessary first building block of an autocracy.  Next, be sure to demonize anything the press says that may be negative to the plan while anointing those entities who will spread the propaganda necessary to laying the foundation of mistrust. 
Next is to create solidarity among the clueless by manufacturing bogey men to play into the prejudices of the clueless and stoke hatred laying somewhat dormant in America.  Make that hatred not only acceptable, but normal. 
Find any and all opportunities to spread that hatred by using the same press that was friendly to the plan and more than willing to become a major tool to that end.  This while maintaining the "fake news" label of those news agencies that are averse to your obvious intent.

Blame those bogeymen and their supposed threat to America on those currently in power and declare that you are the "chosen one" who will make it all right again.  Who will make it all "white" again. 

And now he's established a following eager to hear more because truth has become lies and lies have become truth.    And the atmosphere has to be reinforced regularly to keep the throngs on board the ship of fools.  And so there are Rallies upon Rallies aimed at justifying and making normal all of the fires of hatred that have been stoked and fed. 
Next, maintain anonymity of yourself in terms of your past, your character, your finances and where your money comes from.  And maintain how extraordinary your education and your wealth is while refusing to prove anything related to either of those.    For those realities to be revealed would be a disaster because the truth of those things are completely contrary to the claims made. 

Next, begin paring down your staff and replacing those who are unwilling to remain silent with scoundrels like yourself who want desperately to be part of that power grab and will do literately anything to remain in good standing with this false icon who is emerging as the broker of political power in your party.  Those who will ignore any and all crimes or ties to our enemies when the real press and the real investigations attempt do hold your source of future power accountable.
Now the transition from normalcy and truth to madness, hate and misinformation is complete. 
 And now the torch is passed from Democracy to Authoritarianism,


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 27, 2022)

scruffy said:


> You're a sick little fuck, aren't you?
> 
> Just like a vicious little liberal, goes after the children.
> 
> Fuck you. I hope we meet in a dark alley someday.


Mr internet tough guy. Wow. I think yoo momma called down into the basement that your dinner is ready.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 27, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> That's just it.  We already know what happened, Nothing.  All a ruse and a Trump fantasy.  Designed to overthrow a free and fair election.  Remember, he said If I win I'll accept that, but If Biden wins, then I can't accept it. Or something along those lines.  And when he couldn't convince any court, he cooked up an armed insurrection.   Simple as that.   He's a fuckin' nut!


Along with….
The nuts who  believe  him. He’s been scamming people his entire professional life. The suckers in the world are all on his side, along with white supremacist and delusional sad sacks who blame everyone else for their failures.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 28, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Along with….
> The nuts who  believe  him. He’s been scamming people his entire professional life. The suckers in the world are all on his side, along with white supremacist and delusional sad sacks who blame everyone else for their failures.


His acceptance by the Cult is beginning to ebb.  His last Rally had a tenth of what he used to draw.  That's great news.  Trumpism is dying but it's a mighty slow death.  Can't wait for the GOP congress to get the message that it's time to reject Tyranny and madness.  Another thing that will die a very slow death I'm afraid.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 28, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> His acceptance by the Cult is beginning to ebb.  His last Rally had a tenth of what he used to draw.  That's great news.  Trumpism is dying but it's a mighty slow death.  Can't wait for the GOP congress to get the message that it's time to reject Tyranny and madness.  Another thing that will die a very slow death I'm afraid.


Agree. He still has a cult following on line but no one will get off their ass to watch him in person. Here is a guy, Trump, who lost by 7 million votes to a candidate in any-other year he ran for president, couldn’t   even get through the primaries without quitting. Trump is a loser who still appeals to the losers in the party.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 28, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Agree. He still has a cult following on line but no one will get off their ass to watch him in person. Here is a guy, Trump, who lost by 7 million votes to a candidate in any-other year he ran for president, couldn’t   even get through the primaries without quitting. Trump is a loser who still appeals to the losers in the party.



If Trump is such a loser, why are the Communists still going after him over a year after he left office?  If he wasn't such a loser, they might spend their time focusing on our border that they totally fucked up, our out of control inflation, our labor shortage that led to the supply chain shortage, our fuel prices.  But nope!  Focus on making sure Trump can't run in 2024.......because he's such a loser.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 28, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> If Trump is such a loser, why are the Communists still going after him over a year after he left office?  If he wasn't such a loser, they might spend their time focusing on our border that they totally fucked up, our out of control inflation, our labor shortage that led to the supply chain shortage, our fuel prices.  But nope!  Focus on making sure Trump can't run in 2024.......because he's such a loser.


Communists?  In your mind only.  We liberals don't want him to run again because he's a fuckin' nut and a Putin operative.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 28, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Communists?  In your mind only.  We liberals don't want him to run again because he's a fuckin' nut and a Putin operative.



Nope, not in my mind only.  Go to the US Communist Party website and read their agenda.  You'll find very few differences between theirs and the Democrat party.  While you're there, search for past presidential candidates and see who they endorsed. 

So again, if the Communists didn't see him as a severe threat, explain why they are going after him (with zero evidence) over a year after he left office.  That's never been done in the history of this country.  In all the years I've followed politics, I've never seen the Communists so scared of one man in my life.  

So your theory is flawed.  If they really wanted Trump to run again, all they'd have to do is leave him alone.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 28, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Nope, not in my mind only.  Go to the US Communist Party website and read their agenda.  You'll find very few differences between theirs and the Democrat party.  While you're there, search for past presidential candidates and see who they endorsed.
> 
> So again, if the Communists didn't see him as a severe threat, explain why they are going after him (with zero evidence) over a year after he left office.  That's never been done in the history of this country.  In all the years I've followed politics, I've never seen the Communists so scared of one man in my life.
> 
> So your theory is flawed.  If they really wanted Trump to run again, all they'd have to do is leave him alone.


Yup!  In your mind only.  Go to the text of Mein Kampf and see the correlation between the Nazi strategy to establish an Authoritarian system and what Trump did.  He followed it very closely and almost got what he wanted.


----------



## Ropey (Mar 29, 2022)

__





						NEW POLL: Biden Approval on Economy Gets Absolutely Clobbered, Down to Record-Low 33 Percent
					





					www.msn.com
				








__





						DocumentCloud
					






					www.documentcloud.org


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 29, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Yup!  In your mind only.  Go to the text of Mein Kampf and see the correlation between the Nazi strategy to establish an Authoritarian system and what Trump did.  He followed it very closely and almost got what he wanted.



Oh really?  Then give us an example of what Trump did that comes close to trying to force Americans to take a medication they refused to take, or shutting down businesses who didn't follow their authoritarian orders.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Oh really?  Then give us an example of what Trump did that comes close to trying to force Americans to take a medication they refused to take, or shutting down businesses who didn't follow their authoritarian orders.


You really are a clown.  Your wake up call is coming.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> If Trump is such a loser, why are the Communists still going after him over a year after he left office?  If he wasn't such a loser, they might spend their time focusing on our border that they totally fucked up, our out of control inflation, our labor shortage that led to the supply chain shortage, our fuel prices.  But nope!  Focus on making sure Trump can't run in 2024.......because he's such a loser.


Because Trump isn’t above the law. Border ? 


Ray From Cleveland said:


> If Trump is such a loser, why are the Communists still going after him over a year after he left office?  If he wasn't such a loser, they might spend their time focusing on our border that they totally fucked up, our out of control inflation, our labor shortage that led to the supply chain shortage, our fuel prices.  But nope!  Focus on making sure Trump can't run in 2024.......because he's such a loser.


Border ? Nearly half are, over 7. million are visa overstays dumb shit. Their employees are hiring them and providing cover. The GOP has been agains   immigration  reform because it holds them accountable.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Oh really?  Then give us an example of what Trump did that comes close to trying to force Americans to take a medication they refused to take, or shutting down businesses who didn't follow their authoritarian orders.


Really ? The vast majority of hospitalizations are Trump idiots who didn’t get vaxxed. It was their choice to die…..


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> If Trump is such a loser, why are the Communists still going after him over a year after he left office?  If he wasn't such a loser, they might spend their time focusing on our border that they totally fucked up, our out of control inflation, our labor shortage that led to the supply chain shortage, our fuel prices.  But nope!  Focus on making sure Trump can't run in 2024.......because he's such a loser.


Trump won’t run dufus. He can’t even get nominated. He’s a loser. He lost by 7 million to a man you Humpers  claim has dementia. That’s hilarious. Biden could die in office and his corpse would beat Trump by 10 million. Not likely, it’s Biden who still jogs and Trump who shits himself while he waddles.

Keep telling us how bad the man who beat Trump by seven million is.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 29, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Trump won’t run dufus. He can’t even get nominated. He’s a loser. He lost by 7 million to a man you Humpers  claim has dementia. That’s hilarious. Biden could die in office and his corpse would beat Trump by 10 million. Not likely, it’s Biden who still jogs and Trump who shits himself while he waddles.
> 
> Keep telling us how bad the man who beat Trump by seven million is.
> View attachment 622998



The only reason Dementia won is because of mail-in voting.  Using mail-in the Communists were able to harness the lowlife vote; people on welfare too Fn lazy to go out and vote.  People who won't put the time or energy into voting are politically ignorant and don't even know what they are voting on.  That's why they vote Democrat most of the time.  If it were a normal election, Dementia wouldn't have stood a chance.  Why do you think the Communists want all mail-in every election voting virus or not?  

A prime example of that is a poll taken after the election that showed 17% of people would have not voted for Dementia had they known of the Hunter scandals.  True, the MSM is part of the Communist party, but outlets like Fox were talking about it all the time.  Politically ignorant voters.  









						Poll: One In Six Biden Voters Would Have Changed Their Vote If They Had Known About Scandals Suppressed By Media
					

Biden voters were asked if they were aware of issues like Kamala Harris's liberal voting record, Trump Middle East peace deals, Hunter Biden's scandals and more.




					thefederalist.com


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 29, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Really ? The vast majority of hospitalizations are Trump idiots who didn’t get vaxxed. It was their choice to die…..



Dodging the question noted.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 29, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Because Trump isn’t above the law. Border ?



What law?  Trump broke no laws.  Their fishing expedition is going to come back to haunt them after next November.  Watch and see.  Hopefully it will be after Biden's FIRST impeachment.  Your people never learn.  They think they can pull bullshit all they want while in power and there won't ever be retaliation.  But you people have a terrible batting average.  In the last two weeks the court ruled that Stormy Daniels now owes Trump 300K, and the prosecutor in New York decided to quit investigating Trump because he had nothing. 

Trump didn't become a multi-billionaire by being stupid.  



Dagosa said:


> Border ? Nearly half are, over 7. million are visa overstays dumb shit. Their employees are hiring them and providing cover. The GOP has been agains immigration reform because it holds them accountable.



And thanks to Dementia's reversal of Trump's policies, 2 million more crossed that border last year.  Fentanyl confiscation is up 138%, not that Dementia cares about Americans.  So what does immigration reform mean?  It means amnesty to those who broke our laws coming here and letting in more foreigners as if we didn't have too many already.  Yes we are totally against that.  The first thing that clown did after invading the White House was stop the wall from being built.  Thank God people were smart enough to vote for Trump the first election.  He built over 460 miles of replacement walls and even added a few miles where no walls even existed.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The only reason Dementia won is because of mail-in voting.  Using mail-in the Communists were able to harness the lowlife vote; people on welfare too Fn lazy to go out and vote.  People who won't put the time or energy into voting are politically ignorant and don't even know what they are voting on.  That's why they vote Democrat most of the time.  If it were a normal election, Dementia wouldn't have stood a chance.  Why do you think the Communists want all mail-in every election voting virus or not?
> 
> A prime example of that is a poll taken after the election that showed 17% of people would have not voted for Dementia had they known of the Hunter scandals.  True, the MSM is part of the Communist party, but outlets like Fox were talking about it all the time.  Politically ignorant voters.
> 
> ...


Really ?


Ray From Cleveland said:


> The only reason Dementia won is because of mail-in voting.  Using mail-in the Communists were able to harness the lowlife vote; people on welfare too Fn lazy to go out and vote.  People who won't put the time or energy into voting are politically ignorant and don't even know what they are voting on.  That's why they vote Democrat most of the time.  If it were a normal election, Dementia wouldn't have stood a chance.  Why do you think the Communists want all mail-in every election voting virus or not?
> 
> A prime example of that is a poll taken after the election that showed 17% of people would have not voted for Dementia had they known of the Hunter scandals.  True, the MSM is part of the Communist party, but outlets like Fox were talking about it all the time.  Politically ignorant voters.
> 
> ...


Really ? That’s pretty stupid. Mail in ballots in most states require MORE ID to process then same day personal voting. Hilarious. I‘ll buy it that fewer fascist repugnants could execute a mail in because they were too stupid to fill in the additional info needed for mail in ballots. Maybe  you’re one of them.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> What law?  Trump broke no laws.  Their fishing expedition is going to come back to haunt them after next November.  Watch and see.  Hopefully it will be after Biden's FIRST impeachment.  Your people never learn.  They think they can pull bullshit all they want while in power and there won't ever be retaliation.  But you people have a terrible batting average.  In the last two weeks the court ruled that Stormy Daniels now owes Trump 300K, and the prosecutor in New York decided to quit investigating Trump because he had nothing.
> 
> Trump didn't become a multi-billionaire by being stupid.
> 
> ...


Oh, you mean the election Trump 9nly lost by three million votes. Only gerrymandering allows anti voting rights fascist repugnants to cheat and win by 3 million fewer votes. 7 million turned into a landslide election with Trump being overwhelmed


----------



## task0778 (Mar 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> He built over 460 miles of replacement walls and even added a few miles where no walls even existed.



And if he gets re-elected in 2024, I think he will finish that wall and plus up our Border Patrol.  That might not totally stop the illegals from getting in, but I'd bet big money it will sure as hell reduce the numbers.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Trump didn't become a multi-billionaire by being stupid.


Trump became a millionaire because he inherited both the money and the law firm that managed it.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 29, 2022)

task0778 said:


> And if he gets re-elected in 2024, I think he will finish that wall and plus up our Border Patrol.  That might not totally stop the illegals from getting in, but I'd bet big money it will sure as hell reduce the numbers.


Oh, the wall even repugnants didn’t vote for when he had the house and the senate. How quaint. Trump won’t even get nominated.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> What law?  Trump broke no laws.  Their fishing expedition is going to come back to haunt them after next November.  Watch and see.  Hopefully it will be after Biden's FIRST impeachment.  Your people never learn.  They think they can pull bullshit all they want while in power and there won't ever be retaliation.  But you people have a terrible batting average.  In the last two weeks the court ruled that Stormy Daniels now owes Trump 300K, and the prosecutor in New York decided to quit investigating Trump because he had nothing.
> 
> Trump didn't become a multi-billionaire by being stupid.
> 
> ...


Trump could have finished the wall on the stacked bodies of all those who have died due to his miss management of covid. Most inept president since Bush 2.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 29, 2022)

task0778 said:


> And if he gets re-elected in 2024, I think he will finish that wall and plus up our Border Patrol.  That might not totally stop the illegals from getting in, but I'd bet big money it will sure as hell reduce the numbers.


You’re dreaming. You would have lost that money when he was elected with both houses on his side. They still didn’t fund a wall. What makes you think this loser who keeps losing by bigger margins can even get on the ballot.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 29, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> You’re dreaming. You would have lost that money when he was elected with both houses on his side. They still didn’t fund a wall. What makes you think this loser who keeps losing by bigger margins can even get on the ballot.



I don't know where you're getting your information from.  Trump gained 7 million more votes over his first election which he won.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 29, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Trump could have finished the wall on the stacked bodies of all those who have died due to his miss management of covid. Most inept president since Bush 2.



I'm glad you feel that way, now explain why Dementia had more covid deaths than Trump when he had three Trump vaccines that Trump didn't have.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 29, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Trump became a millionaire because he inherited both the money and the law firm that managed it.



He inherited several million but nothing close to a billion.  Need the link, just ask.  

Donald Trump owned or operated over 500 businesses in his career.  He had to file bankruptcy four times.  Any CEO would love a record like that.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 29, 2022)

task0778 said:


> And if he gets re-elected in 2024, I think he will finish that wall and plus up our Border Patrol.  That might not totally stop the illegals from getting in, but I'd bet big money it will sure as hell reduce the numbers.



It's policy too.  In 2019 Trump reduced border crossings by 90%, and most of that was his policies alone.  Migrants knew it would be a waste of time coming here because they wouldn't get in.  He stopped the catch and release policy, instituted the Stay In Mexico policy, he threatened Mexico to stop people from crossing their country to get to ours, or they will lose our foreign aid, his new asylum policies included having to apply from a US embassy in your own country, and if you couldn't do that and came to our border, your application would be automatically disqualified if you were offered asylum from any other country but refused it.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 29, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Really ? That’s pretty stupid. Mail in ballots in most states require MORE ID to process then same day personal voting. Hilarious. I‘ll buy it that fewer fascist repugnants could execute a mail in because they were too stupid to fill in the additional info needed for mail in ballots. Maybe you’re one of them.



Right, and why did we have to get rid of punch card ballots again?  Because Democrat voters were too Fn stupid to punch a hole in a card.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The only reason Dementia won is because of mail-in voting.  Using mail-in the Communists were able to harness the lowlife vote; people on welfare too Fn lazy to go out and vote.  People who won't put the time or energy into voting are politically ignorant and don't even know what they are voting on.  That's why they vote Democrat most of the time.  If it were a normal election, Dementia wouldn't have stood a chance.  Why do you think the Communists want all mail-in every election voting virus or not?
> 
> A prime example of that is a poll taken after the election that showed 17% of people would have not voted for Dementia had they known of the Hunter scandals.  True, the MSM is part of the Communist party, but outlets like Fox were talking about it all the time.  Politically ignorant voters.
> 
> ...


To reference Fox as proof of anything shows just how delusional you have become.  I'd like to see a poll asking folks what they think of real criminals running the show.  And I say that knowing that they are all scoundrels on both sides but by a matter of degrees, there's no contest.   Trump has turned the GOP into the most obvious ship of fools in history.  Sycophantic embarrassments to the country.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 29, 2022)

task0778 said:


> And if he gets re-elected in 2024, I think he will finish that wall and plus up our Border Patrol.  That might not totally stop the illegals from getting in, but I'd bet big money it will sure as hell reduce the numbers.


You think Mexicans don't have tools and ladders?  LOL  That wall was designed to be a monument to the most severe narcissist in history.  Nothing more.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Right, and why did we have to get rid of punch card ballots again?  Because Democrat voters were too Fn stupid to punch a hole in a card.


Katherine Harris.  Another hater of democracy.  And another uneducated fool that the GOP loves so much.  Easier to brainwash.  Look it up.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 29, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Trump became a millionaire because he inherited both the money and the law firm that managed it.


Yeah, that and a steady flow of cash from Russia.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 29, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Katherine Harris.  Another hater of democracy.  And another uneducated fool that the GOP loves so much.  Easier to brainwash.  Look it up.



WTF does Whorris have to do with my comment?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I don't know where you're getting your information from.  Trump gained 7 million more votes over his first election which he won.


And how do we know those votes were legit?  See?  It works both ways.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 29, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> To reference Fox as proof of anything shows just how delusional you have become.  I'd like to see a poll asking folks what they think of real criminals running the show.  And I say that knowing that they are all scoundrels on both sides but by a matter of degrees, there's no contest.   Trump has turned the GOP into the most obvious ship of fools in history.  Sycophantic embarrassments to the country.



Yet another post with no substance of yours.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> WTF does Whorris have to do with my comment?


Look it up!


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 29, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> And how do we know those votes were legit?  See?  It works both ways.



We don't.  That's the point of this debate all along.  We need to go back to hand counting and get rid of technology to assure voters are not cheated.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> We don't.  That's the point of this debate all along.  We need to go back to hand counting and get rid of technology to assure voters are not cheated.


And your side did just that with recounts.  No evidence of voter fraud.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yet another post with no substance of yours.


No substance if you've been asleep for the last 5-6 years.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 29, 2022)

To me, the fewer humans between my vote and the counting, the better.    Machines have no agenda.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 29, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Yeah, that and a steady flow of cash from Russia.


And the US treasury for four years, including his self indulgent tax cuts.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 29, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> And your side did just that with recounts.  No evidence of voter fraud.


Except by republicans. They’re hilarious. Repos want added voter suppression to protect the system from themselves.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Dodging the question noted.


The truth hurts doesn’t it. You guys even argued about what types of mask are best…..even though you have no intention to wear them. Repugnant Humpers are a sea bloviation with no substance, just made up shit.


----------



## DBA (Mar 29, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Yeah, that and a steady flow of cash from Russia.



You might want to do some research on the Biden's.


----------



## DBA (Mar 29, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Except by republicans. They’re hilarious. Repos want added voter suppression to protect the system from themselves.



Yeah, God forbid that we ask voters for proof that they are who they say they are.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Right, and why did we have to get rid of punch card ballots again?  Because Democrat voters were too Fn stupid to punch a hole in a card.


We got rid of them because old fart retired repos on SS whined about not having enough strength to pop a zit let alone  a card?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 29, 2022)

DBA said:


> You might want to do some research on the Biden's.


You might want to do some research on Trump.  See how that works?


----------



## DBA (Mar 29, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> And your side did just that with recounts.  No evidence of voter fraud.



WRONG. There is evidence, just not enough resources to investigate all the shenanigans that went on with the mass mail-in balloting. This is exactly why the Democrats want to keep the COVID method. It is rampant for fraud but too cumbersome to investigate because you can't find a dump of 100k ballots here and there. Each one has to be individually investigated, which is all but impossible.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 29, 2022)

DBA said:


> Yeah, God forbid that we ask voters for proof that they are who they say they are.


That’s stooopid. Everyone does when they register. It’s a federal crime to comity voter fraud after that. The only people  stupid enough to try organized fraud have been republicans. That’s hilarious. You want additional voter requirements to protect elections from yourself…..that’s what you’re claiming.


----------



## DBA (Mar 29, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> You might want to do some research on Trump.  See how that works?



Do tell. There is *PLENTY *on Biden and China and Russia.


----------



## task0778 (Mar 29, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> No evidence of voter fraud.



This is a flat out lie.  There's been quite a lot of evidence, as we learned in the Arizona audit.  It just wasn't enough to determine that Trump was the rightful winner.


----------



## Tumblin Tumbleweed (Mar 29, 2022)

gipper said:


> It’s just talk designed to inflame Rs and cons, and keep libs and Ds happy. O and Bubba did much the same thing. All three losers actually did nothing to limit the second amendment.  It’s what they do, not what they say.
> 
> You’d think all Americans would see this well worn out scam.


^ This is the correct answer. And yes, you'd think. But we forget just how many dumb motherfuckers we have in this country.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 29, 2022)

DBA said:


> WRONG. There is evidence, just not enough resources to investigate all the shenanigans that went on with the mass mail-in balloting. This is exactly why the Democrats want to keep the COVID method. It is rampant for fraud but too cumbersome to investigate because you can't find a dump of 100k ballots here and there. Each one has to be individually investigated, which is all but impossible.


Trump and his entire family voted by mail.  As did the majority of GOPers  You conspiracy junkies had your chance now get the fuck over it.  You lost, period.  There is evidence?  Where?


----------



## DBA (Mar 29, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Trump and his entire family voted by mail.  As did the majority of GOPers  You conspiracy junkies had your chance now get the fuck over it.  You lost, period.  There is evidence?  Where?



Good Lord. Do you people do anything but watch MSNBC or CNN? First Google link.

Simple tests for the extent of vote fraud with absentee and provisional ballots in the 2020 US presidential election


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 29, 2022)

DBA said:


> WRONG. There is evidence, just not enough resources to investigate all the shenanigans that went on with the mass mail-in balloting.


Seriously ? Repugnants don’t have the resources. Are you shitting us ? Even the minority has enough power. You do read the constitution. One of their primary jobs is to INVESTIGATE before passing legislation. That you didn’t even know that, is proof positive how incompetent the gop is…..you had time to investigate Hillary forever. Geesus. what an incompetent response about an incompetent party.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 29, 2022)

DBA said:


> Good Lord. Do you people do anything but watch MSNBC or CNN? First Google link.
> 
> Simple tests for the extent of vote fraud with absentee and provisional ballots in the 2020 US presidential election


Are you guys so dumb you can’t get a judge ANYWHERE to accept it ?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 29, 2022)

task0778 said:


> This is a flat out lie.  There's been quite a lot of evidence, as we learned in the Arizona audit.  It just wasn't enough to determine that Trump was the rightful winner.


 Refresh my memory.  Is that the one done by that idiot group who even scanned each ballot to look for Bamboo?    Cyber Ninjas with no experience and not even smart enough to book a hall so they could do the "fraudit" without a break in the middle of the counting because of a school event?   What a sham.  And somebody made a boatload of money doing that sham counting.  There were so many of those fraudits that I've lost count.  Note that they only audited the states he lost.  How convenient and how Republican.  LOL  Your nutjob lost.  Get over yourself.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 29, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Seriously ? Repugnants don’t have the resources. Are you shitting us ? Even the minority has enough power. You do read the constitution. One of their primary jobs is to INVESTIGATE before passing legislation. That you didn’t even know that, is proof positive how incompetent the gop is…..you had time to investigate Hillary forever. Geesus. what an incompetent response about an incompetent party.


Yeah, and no shortage of resources for the Benghazi investigation that, just like the Fraudits, showed no results.  How long was that fuckin' fiasco?  What a party these clowns have hitched their wagons to.  The list of fools and nutjobs in the GOP of Trump and unfortunately even now, is as long as the list of conspiracy theories.  It's fuckin' crazy!


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 29, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> We got rid of them because old fart retired repos on SS whined about not having enough strength to pop a zit let alone  a card?



Bullshit.  It was the Democrats claiming Gore actually won where they admitted it was their cards that were likely not counted because of "hanging  chads."  They also admitted to not reading the signs at the polls that instructed all voters to wipe their card to make sure the chads fell off. 

Then the country had to spend God knows how many hundreds of millions on new computerized machines.  After GW beat Kerry, once again they were claiming foul stating (with no evidence whatsoever) that Dieblold, the manufacturer of the new voting machines were rigged so  GW won.  And once again, we had to spend hundreds of millions on new machines to replace the Diebold ones.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 30, 2022)

DBA said:


> Good Lord. Do you people do anything but watch MSNBC or CNN? First Google link.
> 
> Simple tests for the extent of vote fraud with absentee and provisional ballots in the 2020 US presidential election


No.  We sometime watch Fox, OAN and Newsmax for comic relief.  We enjoy a good fairy tale.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 30, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Bullshit.  It was the Democrats claiming Gore actually won where they admitted it was their cards that were likely not counted because of "hanging  chads."  They also admitted to not reading the signs at the polls that instructed all voters to wipe their card to make sure the chads fell off.
> 
> Then the country had to spend God knows how many hundreds of millions on new computerized machines.  After GW beat Kerry, once again they were claiming foul stating (with no evidence whatsoever) that Dieblold, the manufacturer of the new voting machines were rigged so  GW won.  And once again, we had to spend hundreds of millions on new machines to replace the Diebold ones.


Gee!  Sounds like a familiar strategy.  Blame the machines, the other party etc etc.  And that might actually have a slither of usefulness in a very close election but to force recounts of a 7 million vote loss and continue the sour grapes whining after 60 court decisions and recounts upon recounts and several lawsuits by the machine manufacturers, and an attempted coup, is just plain berserk.  And to then deny the coup even existed after the loser lays out the plan on national TV, well, now we're into lunatic territory.  And that's where the loser has resided for decades.


----------



## Colin norris (Mar 30, 2022)

Desert Texan said:


> No there wasn't.  Those cases where manufacturers were held responsible was under strict liabilty for manufacturers design flaws and/or faulty parts, not because of how people used them.
> 
> 
> 
> How so, the parents were responsible for failing to secure the firearm keeping it away from a minor child, that's not the fault of the manufacturer, the gun performed exactly as designed.


It certainly did. They are killing machines.  
His parents were held responsible and so they should. Lock the idiots up and the kid.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 30, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Bullshit.  It was the Democrats claiming Gore actually won where they admitted it was their cards that were likely not counted because of "hanging  chads."  They also admitted to not reading the signs at the polls that instructed all voters to wipe their card to make sure the chads fell off.
> 
> Then the country had to spend God knows how many hundreds of millions on new computerized machines.  After GW beat Kerry, once again they were claiming foul stating (with no evidence whatsoever) that Dieblold, the manufacturer of the new voting machines were rigged so  GW won.  And once again, we had to spend hundreds of millions on new machines to replace the Diebold ones.


Reinventing history with the help of Fix News. Amazing.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 30, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Yeah, and no shortage of resources for the Benghazi investigation that, just like the Fraudits, showed no results.  How long was that fuckin' fiasco?  What a party these clowns have hitched their wagons to.  The list of fools and nutjobs in the GOP of Trump and unfortunately even now, is as long as the list of conspiracy theories.  It's fuckin' craz


Exactly. And no resources to check Obamas birth certificate. You had gop congress people climbing on the birtherism wagon without any proof whatsoever ever.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 30, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Reinventing history with the help of Fix News. Amazing.



Especially when you can't prove me wrong.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 30, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Gee!  Sounds like a familiar strategy.  Blame the machines, the other party etc etc.  And that might actually have a slither of usefulness in a very close election but to force recounts of a 7 million vote loss and continue the sour grapes whining after 60 court decisions and recounts upon recounts and several lawsuits by the machine manufacturers, and an attempted coup, is just plain berserk.  And to then deny the coup even existed after the loser lays out the plan on national TV, well, now we're into lunatic territory.  And that's where the loser has resided for decades.



I'm not one of those people who contest the election. It's nearly impossible to prove.  I laid the blame on mail-in ballots.  The more lowlifes that vote, the more votes Democrats get.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 30, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I'm not one of those people who contest the election. It's nearly impossible to prove.  I laid the blame on mail-in ballots.  The more lowlifes that vote, the more votes Democrats get.


Define low-lifes.  Actually, it's "the more educated people vote the more likely they are to be democrats."  You blame the mail ins?  Then void Trump's vote!  You righties are just a bunch of cry babies who can't accept the fact that the people, en mass, rejected Trumpism and autocracy.  They saw the madman and they were appalled by his behavior and his cruelty.  They saw plainly that he was a crook, a liar and a fuckin' Narcissistic, mentally ill crackpot.  In other words, they saw what every Republican saw and verbalized during the run up to 2016, before they became indoctrinated.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 30, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Define low-lifes.  Actually, it's "the more educated people vote the more likely they are to be democrats."  You blame the mail ins?  Then void Trump's vote!  You righties are just a bunch of cry babies who can't accept the fact that the people, en mass, rejected Trumpism and autocracy.  They saw the madman and they were appalled by his behavior and his cruelty.  They saw plainly that he was a crook, a liar and a fuckin' Narcissistic, mentally ill crackpot.  In other words, they saw what every Republican saw and verbalized during the run up to 2016, before they became indoctrinated.



Lowlifes: People who are young, physically and mentally capable of working but stay on government programs to live on.  People who are politically ignorant and are voting on candidates using the same criteria they used to vote for their favorite American Idol contestant. People who would normally stay home on election day but had the government plop down a ballot on their kitchen table.  Example of a politically ignorant lowlife:


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 30, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Lowlifes: People who are young, physically and mentally capable of working but stay on government programs to live on.  People who are politically ignorant and are voting on candidates using the same criteria they used to vote for their favorite American Idol contestant. People who would normally stay home on election day but had the government plop down a ballot on their kitchen table.  Example of a politically ignorant lowlife:


Great argument for the destruction of democracy, based solely on prejudice.  You make the ideal soldier in the fight for autocracy.  That's what indoctrination does to stupid people.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 31, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Especially when you can't prove me wrong.





Ray From Cleveland said:


> Bullshit.  It was the Democrats claiming Gore actually won where they admitted it was their cards that were likely not counted because of "hanging  chads."  They also admitted to not reading the signs at the polls that instructed all voters to wipe their card to make sure the chads fell off.
> 
> Then the country had to spend God knows how many hundreds of millions on new computerized machines.  After GW beat Kerry, once again they were claiming foul stating (with no evidence whatsoever) that Dieblold, the manufacturer of the new voting machines were rigged so  GW won.  And once again, we had to spend hundreds of millions on new machines to replace the Diebold ones.


KInd of ridiculous argument. Democrats wanted all questionable votes to be recounted. Even those by wimpy fat old repugnants who didnt have the strength to prevent hanging chads.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 31, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Lowlifes: People who are young, physically and mentally capable of working but stay on government programs to live on.  People who are politically ignorant and are voting on candidates using the same criteria they used to vote for their favorite American Idol contestant. People who would normally stay home on election day but had the government plop down a ballot on their kitchen table.  Example of a politically ignorant lowlife:


Spoken like the typical uninformed racist. There are far more whites getting  unemployment benefits then non whites. There are far more  lazy white fks who are politically ignorant. Look at all of Trump rallies.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 31, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> KInd of ridiculous argument. Democrats wanted all questionable votes to be recounted. Even those by wimpy fat old repugnants who didnt have the strength to prevent hanging chads.



But they were recounted, but not within law which is why the Supreme Court got involved. 

The Florida law was all ballots had to be certified and turned in on 7 days.  If you wanted a recount, fine, recount them and have them turned in by the 7th day.  The Florida federal courts said "This is our buddy Al Gore, and he can recount the ballots as long as he likes!"  When it got to the Supreme Court, the justices asked the Florida courts to explain their actions of judicial legislation.  A court can't change law on the bench.  That's when Gore had to give up.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 31, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Spoken like the typical uninformed racist. There are far more whites cole ring unemployment benefits then non whites. There are far more lazy white fks who are politically ignorant. Look at all of Trump rallies.



How rare that a population five times the size of another population have more people on unemployment. 

I mentioned nothing about race.  But I know how you leftists are programmed to use race anytime you're losing a debate.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 31, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> How rare that a population five times the size of another population have more people on unemployment.
> 
> I mentioned nothing about race.  But I know how you leftists are programmed to use race anytime you're losing a debate.


Then white unemployment due to being a lazy fk is far more of a problem.
No,


Ray From Cleveland said:


> How rare that a population five times the size of another population have more people on unemployment.
> 
> I mentioned nothing about race.  But I know how you leftists are programmed to use race anytime you're losing a debate.



But, you chose to use a black man to buttress your case who does not represent the biggest problem by nearly a factor of four. Thats racism at its core.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 31, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Then white unemployment due to being a lazy fk is far more of a problem.
> No,
> 
> 
> But, you chose to use a black man to buttress your case who does not represent the biggest problem by nearly a factor of four. Thats racism at its core.



Talk about racism.  That's a woman, not a man, or  do they all look alike to you? 

Yes, there are lazy whites too.  Never said there weren't.  And yes, there are politically ignorant whites as well, never said there weren't.


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 31, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Talk about racism.  That's a woman, not a man, or  do they all look alike to you?
> 
> Yes, there are lazy whites too.  Never said there weren't.  And yes, there are politically ignorant whites as well, never said there weren't.


No, but your picture as it doesn’t represent the problem of of more whites being unemployed.


Ray From Cleveland said:


> Talk about racism.  That's a woman, not a man, or  do they all look alike to you?
> 
> Yes, there are lazy whites too.  Never said there weren't.  And yes, there are politically ignorant whites as well, never said there weren't.


If we solved your problem with the non white unemployment and politically ignorance, we still would have the  vast majority of people in your segment being * white. You act and post like  this is a non white problem . It’s everyone’s problem. Really, how dumb does anyone have to be to not believe in climate change which is mostly a conservative ideology not based on evidence. With the vast majority of conservatives being white, that’s where most of the ignorance lies.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 31, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Spoken like the typical uninformed racist. There are far more whites getting  unemployment benefits then non whites. There are far more  lazy white fks who are politically ignorant. Look at all of Trump rallies.


Isn't it rich when these Trumpers call others politically ignorant?  I love it.  To support a madman with various ties to our enemy and who is still at it right now, right in their faces, is about as stone cold ignorant as it gets.   Ray does this shit all of the time.  Can't see how the GOP is leaning heavily toward autocracy and away from democracy with every move they make.  Attacking voter's rights, electing one loony, racist idiot after another.  Attending Racist conventions without a word from the rest of the party, and attacking the press and the JAN 6 committee or any entity that might have a hand in shining a light on criminal behavior.   They know, or at least should know that the attack on the Capitol didn't just materialize from thin air.  And despite all of the evidence right in their faces, much of it directly from the carp lips of the cultmaster himself, their ignorance still overshadows their sense of patriotism.  It's all about avenging an election lost fair and square.  Again, something that has been investigated by both sides and found to be a fantasy of Donald Trump.  And, in their wisdom, they choose to remain deaf and blind to all of it.   Now, THAT'S what I call IGNORANCE.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 31, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> No, but your picture as it doesn’t represent the problem of of more whites being unemployed.
> 
> If we solved your problem with the non white unemployment and politically ignorance, we still would have the  vast majority of people in your segment being * white. You act and post like  this is a non white problem . It’s everyone’s problem. Really, how dumb does anyone have to be to not believe in climate change which is mostly a conservative ideology not based on evidence. With the vast majority of conservatives being white, that’s where most of the ignorance lies.



The climate has been changing since God made the place.  How do you think the ice age ended?  I don't know what unemployment has to do with my original comment when my comment was about welfare people and lazy people in general. Yes, we can curb the politically ignorant from voting by making people vote in person if possible.  The only people that should be voting mail-in are people that can't possibly make it to the polls and that would reduce the amount of ignorant and stupid voters.  Why do you suppose the Democrat party wants to make mail-in as a standard?


----------



## scruffy (Mar 31, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Yeah, that and a steady flow of cash from Russia.


You must have him confused with Hillary.

Oh... and... Hunter Biden.

Democrats are world class hypocrites


----------



## Dagosa (Mar 31, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The climate has been changing since God made the place. How do you think the ice age ended?


Obviously you never had, remember or just choose Fix News over your natural science and math classes. There are no accredited schools in the entire US that use climate change denial crapolla like this. Seriously, you’ve just eliminated yourself as a believable  poster.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 31, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Obviously you never had, remember or just choose Fix News over your natural science and math classes. There are no accredited schools in the entire US that use climate change denial crapolla like this. Seriously, you’ve just eliminated yourself as a believable  poster.



Let me explain something to you:  Politicians have wanted more and more control over us people, especially the Democrats.  They've been pretty successful thus far, but never total control.  The only way for them to have total control over us is to have total control over healthcare and energy.  Once they have total control over those two entities, they will have total control over all of us.  

In our system of government, they can't rush in with the military and takeover these things.  So how can we  get control over them?  Simple, have the people beg you to take control over them. 

Thanks to government, healthcare coverage for many is impossible to get due to costs.  Scare the people that we are ending the world with our oil and they will cry for a savior.  Forget that DumBama bought a mansion on the ocean right after he left the White House.  Forget Al Gore and Kerry traveling all over the world in private planes, driving around in limos or SUV's.  Just keep feeding people this climate change bullshit and they will eventually beg us to take care of the problem.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 31, 2022)

scruffy said:


> You must have him confused with Hillary.
> 
> Oh... and... Hunter Biden.
> 
> Democrats are world class hypocrites


Hillary and Hunter eh?  That's two yeah buts in a row.    The fact is that Trump has gotten richer by selling apartments etc to Russian mobsters, laundering Russian Kleptocratic loot,  and sucking up to Putin, his oligarchs and the Russian mob.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 31, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Let me explain something to you:  Politicians have wanted more and more control over us people, especially the Democrats.  They've been pretty successful thus far, but never total control.  The only way for them to have total control over us is to have total control over healthcare and energy.  Once they have total control over those two entities, they will have total control over all of us.
> 
> In our system of government, they can't rush in with the military and takeover these things.  So how can we  get control over them?  Simple, have the people beg you to take control over them.
> 
> Thanks to government, healthcare coverage for many is impossible to get due to costs.  Scare the people that we are ending the world with our oil and they will cry for a savior.  Forget that DumBama bought a mansion on the ocean right after he left the White House.  Forget Al Gore and Kerry traveling all over the world in private planes, driving around in limos or SUV's.  Just keep feeding people this climate change bullshit and they will eventually beg us to take care of the problem.


So every climate scientist in the western world have formed a gang to fool us all about global warming?   Did they also get together to melt the polar ice caps?  Make Hurricanes more violent and frequent?  Now,  you Trumpers have come up with some doozies of conspiracies before but, this is the best one yet.   And I suppose we democrats are alone in taking graft and conspicuous consumption?  You are a cultist of the first order.  Getting sillier by the post.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Mar 31, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> So every climate scientist in the western world have formed a gang to fool us all about global warming?   Did they also get together to melt the polar ice caps?  Make Hurricanes more violent and frequent?  Now,  you Trumpers have come up with some doozies of conspiracies before but, this is the best one yet.   And I suppose we democrats are alone in taking graft and conspicuous consumption?  You are a cultist of the first order.  Getting sillier by the post.



Yeah, every single scientist. 









						Estimated 40 Percent of Scientists Doubt Manmade Global Warming | NAS
					






					www.nas.org


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yeah, every single scientist.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your evidence is from a global warming skeptic who knew full well that global warming was happening but that we should do nothing about it based on his opinion that man's activities aren't the cause.    He talks about 100 signers on for his opinion and goes on to declare that 40% now agree with him.    100 signers in a study based on preconceived notions hardly represents 40% of the scientific community.  Maybe 40% of HIS community which is 40 scientists.   LOL totally bogus conclusion.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yeah, every single scientist.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Consensus of experts​
The United States' foremost scientific agencies and organizations have recognized global warming as a human-caused problem that should be addressed. The U.S. Global Change Research Program has published a series of scientific reports documenting the causes and impacts of global climate change. NOAA, NASA, the National Science Foundation, the National Research Council, and the Environmental Protection Agency have all published reports and fact sheets stating that Earth is warming mainly due to the increase in human-produced heat-trapping gases.


On their climate home page, the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicines says, "Scientists have known for some time, from multiple lines of evidence, that humans are changing Earth’s climate, primarily through greenhouse gas emissions," and that "Climate change is increasingly affecting people’s lives." 

The American Meteorological Society (AMS) issued this position statement: "Scientific evidence indicates that the leading cause of climate change in the most recent half century is the anthropogenic increase in the concentration of atmospheric greenhouse gases, including carbon dioxide (CO2), chlorofluorocarbons, methane, tropospheric ozone, and nitrous oxide." (Adopted April 15, 2019)

The American Geophysical Union (AGU) issued this position statement: "Human-induced climate change requires urgent action. Humanity is the major influence on the global climate observed over the last 50 years. Rapid societal responses can significantly lessen negative outcomes." (Reaffirmed in November 2019)

The American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) What We Know site states: "Based on the evidence, about 97 percent of climate scientists agree that human-caused climate change is happening."

Consensus of evidence​These scientific organizations have not issued statements in a void; they echo the findings of individual papers published in refereed scientific journals. The Institute for Scientific Information (ISI) maintains a database of over 8,500 peer-reviewed science journals, and multiple studies of this database show evidence of overwhelming agreement among climate scientists. In 2004, science historian Naomi Oreskes published the results of her examination of the ISI database in the journal _Science_. She reviewed 928 abstracts published between 1993 and 2003 related to human activities warming the Earth's surface, and stated, "Remarkably, none of the papers disagreed with the consensus position."

This finding hasn't changed with time. In 2016, a review paper summarized the results of several independent studies on peer-reviewed research related to climate. The authors found results consistent with a 97-percent consensus that human activity is causing climate change.

Probably the most definitive assessments of global climate science come from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). Founded by the United Nations in 1988, the IPCC releases periodic reports, and each major release includes three volumes: one on the science, one on impacts, and one on mitigation. Each volume is authored by a separate team of experts, who reviews, evaluates, and summarizes relevant research published since the prior report. Each IPCC report undergoes several iterations of expert and government review. The 2007 IPCC report, for instance, received some 90,000 comments, and each comment received an individual response.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Let me explain something to you: Politicians have wanted more and more control over us people, especially the Democrats.


Let me explain something to you. That is full of shit. Climate change reality is non political. Literally everyone in every country govt, major corporations, education, facility research  facility agrees. If you want to take Fix News instead, that’s fine. Just realize you’re FOS.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yeah, every single scientist.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That’s really dumb. National association of scholars is a conservative activist group.
You’re ridiculous. There is no country, military, accredited university or major related corporation that agrees with you.

Only ignorant people are left who pretend otherwise. 
.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 1, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Isn't it rich when these Trumpers call others politically ignorant?  I love it.  To support a madman with various ties to our enemy and who is still at it right now, right in their faces, is about as stone cold ignorant as it gets.   Ray does this shit all of the time.  Can't see how the GOP is leaning heavily toward autocracy and away from democracy with every move they make.  Attacking voter's rights, electing one loony, racist idiot after another.  Attending Racist conventions without a word from the rest of the party, and attacking the press and the JAN 6 committee or any entity that might have a hand in shining a light on criminal behavior.   They know, or at least should know that the attack on the Capitol didn't just materialize from thin air.  And despite all of the evidence right in their faces, much of it directly from the carp lips of the cultmaster himself, their ignorance still overshadows their sense of patriotism.  It's all about avenging an election lost fair and square.  Again, something that has been investigated by both sides and found to be a fantasy of Donald Trump.  And, in their wisdom, they choose to remain deaf and blind to all of it.   Now, THAT'S what I call IGNORANCE.


And all the while, Putin is murdering civilians, Trump is asking him for help in his next election.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 1, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> And all the while, Putin is murdering civilians, Trump is asking him for help in his next election.



He is?  Have a link to that?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 1, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> That’s really dumb. National association of scholars is a conservative activist group.
> You’re ridiculous. There is no country, military, accredited university or major related corporation that agrees with you.
> 
> Only ignorant people are left who pretend otherwise.
> .



Ignorance is saying every scientist agrees with you when there are hundreds that don't.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 1, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Let me explain something to you. That is full of shit. Climate change reality is non political. Literally everyone in every country govt, major corporations, education, facility research  facility agrees. If you want to take Fix News instead, that’s fine. Just realize you’re FOS.



Nope, climate has been changing since the earth was made, that's a fact.  The other fact is we can't change that no matter what we do.  How do I know this?  Because they've been trying since I was a child back in the 60's.  Since that time they've outlawed many products and it cost us trillions of dollars. And guess what?  They are more upset today than they were over 50 years ago.

Climate change is a bottomless money pit that can never be filled even if we used every dollar in this country.  And I'll ask you a question no enviro-nut has ever been able to answer:  What are the metrics that will shut you people up forever, and how much will it cost us?

Sometimes while on this subject, I picture a classroom of children in school a hundred years or so from today.  The teacher tells the children that back in the 2000's, man thought they could control the climate, and the children bust out in laughter like when our teachers told us at one time, man thought the earth was flat and if you go too far, you'll fall off.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Nope, climate has been changing since the earth was made, that's a fact.


Same BS. No shit Denier.  You really have no idea do you ? But neither does any-other denier. So, you’re in good company with other Trump munchkins.  At no time in the history of mankind, has the climate changed at a rate as fast as it has since the industrial revolution. Being a science and math illiterate, I guess you ‘re going to pretend now you have no idea how rare of change in a climate affects species do you ? . Hilarious.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 1, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Same BS. No shit Denier.  You really have no idea do you ? But neither does any-other denier. So, you’re in good company with other Trump munchkins.  At no time in the history of mankind, has the climate changed at a rate as fast as it has since the industrial revolution. Being a science and math illiterate, I guess you ‘re going to pretend now you have no idea how rare of change in a climate affects species do you ? . Hilarious.



I've just come to the reality that yes, the climate changes, and it always has.  We have no more control of that than we would trying to move the moon to a different location.  

Not long ago the cry was global warming.  When facts showed that there was no such thing, they switched to climate change.  Why climate change?  Because then they could never be proven wrong again because the climate has always changed.  

The political motivation is not survival, the political motivation is control.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> He is?  Have a link to that?


Are you serious?  Man, what a clueless fool you are.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I've just come to the reality that yes, the climate changes, and it always has.  We have no more control of that than we would trying to move the moon to a different location.
> 
> Not long ago the cry was global warming.  When facts showed that there was no such thing, they switched to climate change.  Why climate change?  Because then they could never be proven wrong again because the climate has always changed.
> 
> The political motivation is not survival, the political motivation is control.


So, you have no clue what rate of change represents. Yah, I suppose you could come to the conclusion that science is scary…..you’d be wrong. There are no facts that show that man made climate change isn’t happening. None, zip. And, the US government, all universities and every major corporation…..DISAGREES with science illiterates.

Hilarious  you compare our atmosphere with the moon. Our atmosphere is just 300 miles thick, and the moon is about 1/4  million miles away……strange comparison dude. .


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> But they were recounted, but not within law which is why the Supreme Court got involved.
> 
> The Florida law was all ballots had to be certified and turned in on 7 days.  If you wanted a recount, fine, recount them and have them turned in by the 7th day.  The Florida federal courts said "This is our buddy Al Gore, and he can recount the ballots as long as he likes!"  When it got to the Supreme Court, the justices asked the Florida courts to explain their actions of judicial legislation.  A court can't change law on the bench.  That's when Gore had to give up.


The court only got involved because of the time constraint. The full recount would have taken too long. Gore had the most votes.

Now, with Bush, conservatives ” won” 911 and the biggest recession since 1929. Good job.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I've just come to the reality that yes, the climate changes, and it always has.  We have no more control of that than we would trying to move the moon to a different location.
> 
> Not long ago the cry was global warming.  When facts showed that there was no such thing, they switched to climate change.  Why climate change?  Because then they could never be proven wrong again because the climate has always changed.
> 
> The political motivation is not survival, the political motivation is control.


It has to be scary living  in a world where you’re only concerned with about 10% of what is actually going on.

You do know that we have electricity, computers, cell phones and modern medicine. You’ve heard of artificial hearts, like the one Dick Cheney has been nursing along for decades. I bet you don’t know much about the science around lots of things and places like John’s Hopkins, UCLA etc who are at the forefront of medical and natural science. Some how, it’s ok for you deniers to hope a pray these people can save your life on a regular basis but wheN the same science and many of the same people are used to buttress Climate change, you still don’t have an effin clue.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 1, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> It has to be scary living  in a world where you’re only concerned with about 10% of what is actually going on.
> 
> You do know that we have electricity, computers, cell phones and modern medicine. You’ve heard of artificial hearts, like the one Dick Cheney has been nursing along for decades. I bet you don’t know much about the science around lots of things and places like John’s Hopkins, UCLA etc who are at the forefront of medical and natural science. Some how, it’s ok for you deniers to hope a pray these people can save your life on a regular basis but wheN the same science and many of the same people are used to buttress Climate change, you still don’t have an effin clue.



The difference of course is we have empirical evidence all those other things work.  Climate change is a theory, not a reality.  There is no proof that it actually exists, only that yes, the climate changes.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 1, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> The court only got involved because of the time constraint. The full recount would have taken too long. Gore had the most votes.
> 
> Now, with Bush, conservatives ” won” 911 and the biggest recession since 1929. Good job.



The recession was mostly due to the housing crash which many a Democrat had their fingerprints on.  In fact it all started with Bill Clinton when he put in the then youngest leader of HUD,  Andrew Cuomo.  They instituted policies like zero down and no credit check with Clinton's mad desire to put more minorities in houses.  Well it worked.  He got more minorities in houses and GW didn't stop it.  However Republicans in Congress did try to stop it and was met with strong opposition by the Democrats.  Need the videos, just ask.  

Yes, the Supreme Court got involved in the election (which they normally don't do) because of the constitutional violation of legislating from the bench.  The LAW states all ballots have to be turned in within 7 days whether there's a recount or not.  As for Gore winning if that didn't happen: 

_*MIAMI, Florida*__* (CNN) -- If a recount of Florida's disputed votes in last year's close presidential election had been allowed to proceed by the U.S. Supreme Court, Republican George W. Bush still would have won the White House, two newspapers reported Wednesday.

The Miami Herald and USA Today conducted a comprehensive review of 64,248 "undercounted" ballots in Florida's 67 counties that ended last month.  Their count showed that Bush's razor-thin margin of 537 votes -- certified in December by the Florida Secretary of State's office -- would have tripled to 1,665 votes if counted according to standards advocated by his Democratic rival, former Vice President Al Gore.*_





__





						CNN.com - Bush still wins Florida in newspaper recount - April  4, 2001
					





					www.cnn.com


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The recession was mostly due to the housing crash which many a Democrat had their fingerprints on.  In fact it all started with Bill Clinton when he put in the then youngest leader of HUD,  Andrew Cuomo.  They instituted policies like zero down and no credit check with Clinton's mad desire to put more minorities in houses.  Well it worked.  He got more minorities in houses and GW didn't stop it.  However Republicans in Congress did try to stop it and was met with strong opposition by the Democrats.  Need the videos, just ask.
> 
> Yes, the Supreme Court got involved in the election (which they normally don't do) because of the constitutional violation of legislating from the bench.  The LAW states all ballots have to be turned in within 7 days whether there's a recount or not.  As for Gore winning if that didn't happen:
> 
> ...


Crapolla. The crash was due to the deregulation of the bush admin which allowed banks to take on mortgages just to package them on put them on the market. The banks unregulated greed under Greenspan who refused to hold banks accountable under the Bush directives. That  caused the housing collapse. Your rational is bull shit. How do we know for sure  ?

*If the Bush admin thought there was  problem,they had 8 YEARS TO CORRECT IT. *Maybe you didn’t know, but all the control and management function are under the Bush appointees for 8 fucking years. Bush was also sat on his ass for 6 months with intel giving  him info of the potential attacks  is on 9/11. While Clinton was seeking congressional support to attack terrorist to keep them on the run, Bush sat on his ass and did nothing.


*It’s  hilarious how you can blame Clinton who was out of office nearly 8 years. You’re admitting the Bush admin was too incompetent. *

It’s like birtherism,……somehow an  inelligible candidate got on a national election that was never investigated by Bush appointees ….you guys are so FOS, it runs out your ears.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The recession was mostly due to the housing crash which many a Democrat had their fingerprints on.  In fact it all started with Bill Clinton when he put in the then youngest leader of HUD,  Andrew Cuomo.  They instituted policies like zero down and no credit check with Clinton's mad desire to put more minorities in houses.  Well it worked.  He got more minorities in houses and GW didn't stop it.  However Republicans in Congress did try to stop it and was met with strong opposition by the Democrats.  Need the videos, just ask.
> 
> Yes, the Supreme Court got involved in the election (which they normally don't do) because of the constitutional violation of legislating from the bench.  The LAW states all ballots have to be turned in within 7 days whether there's a recount or not.  As for Gore winning if that didn't happen:
> 
> ...


That’s wrong. It depends upon the standard used. It was ultimate determined that Gore  won In a follow up recount.









						Florida 'recounts' make Gore winner
					

Al Gore, not George Bush, should be sitting in the White House today as the newly elected president of the United States, two new independent probes of the disputed Florida election contest have confirmed.




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The recession was mostly due to the housing crash which many a Democrat had their fingerprints on.  In fact it all started with Bill Clinton when he put in the then youngest leader of HUD,  Andrew Cuomo.  They instituted policies like zero down and no credit check with Clinton's mad desire to put more minorities in houses.  Well it worked.  He got more minorities in houses and GW didn't stop it.  However Republicans in Congress did try to stop it and was met with strong opposition by the Democrats.  Need the videos, just ask.
> 
> Yes, the Supreme Court got involved in the election (which they normally don't do) because of the constitutional violation of legislating from the bench.  The LAW states all ballots have to be turned in within 7 days whether there's a recount or not.  As for Gore winning if that didn't happen:
> 
> ...


Bush. could have stopped 911.








						The new evidence that Bush could have stopped 9/11: 4 takeaways
					

A former New York Times investigative reporter argues that George W. Bush ignored months of daily briefings that should have raised red flags



					theweek.com
				




so, we have Bush responsible for 911, the Great Recession, and  attacking  a nation without provocation and creating a new terrorist endity it took a decade to deal with.

Now you have Trump,  most corrupt with another recession and a devastating  pandemic he does nothing about. You guys are incompetent.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 2, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Bush. could have stopped 911.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There is only so much a US President can do amid a worldwide pandemic, one nobody alive in the US has ever seen before.  And remember it was DumBama who emptied all our PPE shelves during H1N1 and never replaced it.  The FDA only approved of one kind of test kit, and that was the ones made by the CDC.  When we put them to use, they were found defective and Trump had to start from scratch to replace those as well amid a worldwide demand for them. 

In spite of all that the US had the least GDP decline of all G7 countries outside of China, and that's only if you trust their reporting.  Trump spent 13 billion dollars on 8 potential vaccine companies with contracts that the US gets the first 200 million doses with a rider for an additional 500 million on demand so we Americans came first.  They laughed at him when he stated we would have a vaccine by the end of the year, and we ended up with two of them. 

If Trump was incompetent with the virus, Dementia is worse since more people died from Covid under him than Trump.  When campaigning, Dementia stated (when we hit the 200,000 dead mark) that Trump should step down from office because of the deaths.  Well Joe, when are you going to step down? 









						What Bush Knew Before Sept. 11
					

U.S. Intelligence Warned Bin Laden Might Stage Hijackings




					www.cbsnews.com


----------



## task0778 (Apr 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> There is only so much a US President can do amid a worldwide pandemic, one nobody alive in the US has ever seen before.  And remember it was DumBama who emptied all our PPE shelves during H1N1 and never replaced it.  The FDA only approved of one kind of test kit, and that was the ones made by the CDC.  When we put them to use, they were found defective and Trump had to start from scratch to replace those as well amid a worldwide demand for them.
> 
> In spite of all that the US had the least GDP decline of all G7 countries outside of China, and that's only if you trust their reporting.  Trump spent 13 billion dollars on 8 potential vaccine companies with contracts that the US gets the first 200 million doses with a rider for an additional 500 million on demand so we Americans came first.  They laughed at him when he stated we would have a vaccine by the end of the year, and we ended up with two of them.
> 
> ...



The hypocrisy of the Left is beyond astounding.  And the media lets them get away with it.  I don't know how anyone in their right mind can say this country isn't headed in the wrong direction.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 2, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> That’s wrong. It depends upon the standard used. It was ultimate determined that Gore  won In a follow up recount.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



First off your sources are biased.  I used a CNN source for that reason.  Secondly your article talks about invalid ballots due to more than one hole punched or some other deformity.   CNN got their reporting from the Miami Herald and USA Today which are far from any right-wing outlets.  Then your source makes the claim that because some voters voted Republican for Congress, they must have really meant to vote for Gore as President.  Your sources are assumption and not fact like mine are.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 2, 2022)

task0778 said:


> The hypocrisy of the Left is beyond astounding.  And the media lets them get away with it.  I don't know how anyone in their right mind can say this country isn't headed in the wrong direction.



They're not.  All polls show that most Americans think the same way as we do.  They are Fd come November, possibly even worse in 2024 depending on who is running.  I don't think Dementia is going to make it a full term.


----------



## task0778 (Apr 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I don't think Dementia is going to make it a full term.



I agree with that, especially if the democrats lose the Senate, cuz then the tie-breaking vote by the VP as President of the Senate doesn't much matter.  But in any case I believe there's a decent chance that Biden resigns at some point for health reasons that are very real.  He don't look and sound like a healthy guy to me.  And most days that he is the president are not good days for the democrats looking forward to 2024, so it could be that his own party will ask him to step down.  

LOL, but then they have problem #2:  if Biden resigns then Kamala Harris becomes the prez.  Is that an improvement for them?  Look, thanks to us we now have the first female president, vote for us!  Will she get the same black turnout that Obama got?  The possibility that she is every bit the same disaster that Biden is will be kinda glossed over if the GOP takes back the Senate and the House, cuz now the dems can revert to blaming the GOP for everything.  I mean, after all that's what they do.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Climate change is a theory, not a reality. There is no proof that it actually exists, only that yes, the climate changes.


So it is true. That babble indicates…..you  know nothing about science. There is NO other statement  in science as definitive for understanding and meaningful   as a “theory” in science.  All summaries of consensus accepted understanding  of any phenomenon in science is a “theory.“


You are science illiterate……there is no doubt. What were you doing in your science classes, sleeping ? Just stating that a theory is not reality when it is based upon evidence, trials, observations and experimentation makes you unqualified to even have anything you say in  science taken seriously.

Read this carefully, I’ll not repeat it. There is no formal proof in science of any of its theories. ….none, nada nix. Go get a science dictionary pretender.

Theory


In science, a theory is an explanation of the natural world that has been repeatedly tested and verified using the scientific method.
In common usage, the word "theory" means something very different. ...
Scientific theories are testable and falsifiable. ...
Examples of theories include the theory of relativity and the theory of evolution.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> First off your sources are biased.  I used a CNN source for that reason.  Secondly your article talks about invalid ballots due to more than one hole punched or some other deformity.   CNN got their reporting from the Miami Herald and USA Today which are far from any right-wing outlets.  Then your source makes the claim that because some voters voted Republican for Congress, they must have really meant to vote for Gore as President.  Your sources are assumption and not fact like mine are.


Burp. You’re as wrong as you are about the science of climate change and what a theory is in science.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> There is only so much a US President can do amid a worldwide pandemic, one nobody alive in the US has ever seen before.  And remember it was DumBama who emptied all our PPE shelves during H1N1 and never replaced it.  The FDA only approved of one kind of test kit, and that was the ones made by the CDC.  When we put them to use, they were found defective and Trump had to start from scratch to replace those as well amid a worldwide demand for them.
> 
> In spite of all that the US had the least GDP decline of all G7 countries outside of China, and that's only if you trust their reporting.  Trump spent 13 billion dollars on 8 potential vaccine companies with contracts that the US gets the first 200 million doses with a rider for an additional 500 million on demand so we Americans came first.  They laughed at him when he stated we would have a vaccine by the end of the year, and we ended up with two of them.
> 
> ...


You know nothing. If you can’t tell that Trump lies continuously, is ignorant and pretends he’s smart, including claiming he’s our savior, that’s  no better. While you continue to call Biden senile, remember one thing. He beat Trump by seven million. If Biden died before any election with Trump, his corpse will beat him by ten million.
Doubtful though. Biden jogs, Trump shits his pants while he waddles. Trump is a loser. His supporters are losers.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 2, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> You know nothing. If you can’t tell that Trump lies continuously, is ignorant and pretends he’s smart, including claiming he’s our savior, that’s  no better. While you continue to call Biden senile, remember one thing. He beat Trump by seven million. If Biden died before any election with Trump, his corpse will beat him by ten million.
> Doubtful though. Biden jogs, Trump shits his pants while he waddles. Trump is a loser. His supporters are losers.



Dementia can't even get out of the shower without hurting himself.  I guess you never seen him trying to climb the stairs to Air Force 1.  Trump lied?  Tell me, who was the last President we had that didn't lie?  It's not about lying so much as what they are lying about.  Trump stating we have the best economy in history doesn't harm me at all.  DumBama stating everybody will have affordable healthcare was nothing but a lie that hurt millions of us who lost their employer sponsored plans.  

Dementia wouldn't have stood a chance in a normal election.  Because of covid, the Communists were able to harness the lowlife vote; people who are generally politically ignorant.  On the other hand Trump increased his voters by 7 million from his first election.  The Communists are scared to death of him.  They know if he comes back they are doomed.  If you consider a multi-billionaire who rides around on his own jetliner and had the most beautiful women in the world a loser, I hope I become a loser real soon.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Dementia can't even get out of the shower without hurting himself.  I guess you never seen him trying to climb the stairs to Air Force 1.  Trump lied?  Tell me, who was the last President we had that didn't lie?  It's not about lying so much as what they are lying about.  Trump stating we have the best economy in history doesn't harm me at all.  DumBama stating everybody will have affordable healthcare was nothing but a lie that hurt millions of us who lost their employer sponsored plans.
> 
> Dementia wouldn't have stood a chance in a normal election.  Because of covid, the Communists were able to harness the lowlife vote; people who are generally politically ignorant.  On the other hand Trump increased his voters by 7 million from his first election.  The Communists are scared to death of him.  They know if he comes back they are doomed.  If you consider a multi-billionaire who rides around on his own jetliner and had the most beautiful women in the world a loser, I hope I become a loser real soon.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Dementia can't even get out of the shower without hurting himself.  I guess you never seen him trying to climb the stairs to Air Force 1.  Trump lied?  Tell me, who was the last President we had that didn't lie?  It's not about lying so much as what they are lying about.  Trump stating we have the best economy in history doesn't harm me at all.  DumBama stating everybody will have affordable healthcare was nothing but a lie that hurt millions of us who lost their employer sponsored plans.
> 
> Dementia wouldn't have stood a chance in a normal election.  Because of covid, the Communists were able to harness the lowlife vote; people who are generally politically ignorant.  On the other hand Trump increased his voters by 7 million from his first election.  The Communists are scared to death of him.  They know if he comes back they are doomed.  If you consider a multi-billionaire who rides around on his own jetliner and had the most beautiful women in the world a loser, I hope I become a loser real soon.


You don’t even know what a science theory represents. Why can anything you say be trusted.


----------



## bripat9643 (Apr 2, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Then maybe the government should stop giving subsidies to corporate America.  See how that works?  Can't have it both ways.


You won't find any conservatives who support subsidies to corporations.  That's a prog thing.  Progs are the ones who want subsidies for electric cars.  Progs are the ones who want subsidies for ethanol.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 2, 2022)

bripat9643 said:


> You won't find any conservatives who support subsidies to corporations.  That's a prog thing.  Progs are the ones who want subsidies for electric cars.  Progs are the ones who want subsidies for ethanol.



It's all brainwashing.  The left thinks that "subsidies" are allowing a company to keep the money they created.  They believe that all money you make belongs to government, and what they allow you to keep is a gift from them to you.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 2, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> View attachment 625254



Oh gee, now that can't be done with photoshop.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 2, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> You don’t even know what a science theory represents. Why can anything you say be trusted.



noun, plural the·o·ries.
a coherent group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity.

a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.









						Definition of theory | Dictionary.com
					

Theory definition, a coherent group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity. See more.




					www.dictionary.com


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> noun, plural the·o·ries.
> a coherent group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity.
> 
> a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.
> ...


Gee, you just said you expected science theories to be proven factual before  they could be ” used”. Which is it.

Are you telling me we shouldn’t be using Newtonian physics and quantum theory. Answer that. After all, they are “ just” theories.

So, sailing which is based on theory, what ? Never happened ?




__





						Sailing Basics - Basic Sailing Theory
					

Easily learn the basics of sailing so that you can enjoy this great pastime even more




					www.lovesailing.net
				





Copy paste makes you even more ignorant about science.


----------



## DBA (Apr 3, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> So it is true. That babble indicates…..you  know nothing about science. There is NO other statement  in science as definitive for understanding and meaningful   as a “theory” in science.  All summaries of consensus accepted understanding  of any phenomenon in science is a “theory.“
> 
> 
> You are science illiterate……there is no doubt. What were you doing in your science classes, sleeping ? Just stating that a theory is not reality when it is based upon evidence, trials, observations and experimentation makes you unqualified to even have anything you say in  science taken seriously.
> ...



Show us scientific evidence that we can reverse any climate change that may be occurring to the extent that it would make a difference. Also, provide evidence that the current level of climate change is caused by humans and not part of a larger cycle that we are unable to observe. If you can’t, then we are all wasting our time, well, not all of us, just the affluent countries like the US who are just dumb enough to go along with the idea of hamstringing our economy.  China and Russia are more than happy to oblige our ignorance and even support it tounge in cheek, all the while continuing to burn fossil fuels as needed to take over world economic dominance.

I have a slew of old National Geograhic magazines claiming that we should have had a catastrophic outcome by now.  It seems as though they conveniently push back these horrible outcomes a decade at a time. Current science is largely fueled by money. They can surmise virtually any outcome desired if given enough funding. The few scientists that buck the system(money) are quickly dismissed and ostracized by the masses.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 3, 2022)

DBA said:


> Show us scientific evidence that we can reverse any climate change that may be occurring to the extent that it would make a difference.


So, what’s your argument now.
Here is the litany of deniers.
1.  climate change doesn’t exist.
2 if it does exist, it’s too expensive to deal with.
3 if it’s not too expensive, which mitigation methods aren’t, than they won’t work anyway.
4 if they do work, it’s too late.


So at which step are you denier ?


The biggest joke is, now you’re asking for scientific evidence. Hilarious. Deniers are incapable of understanding the scientific  evidence which till now you argued against.  Geesus, you don’t even know what climate change is about.

The evidence is found at every climate research facility in the  world. Anyone who was actually interested in science, would go to the over 3400 sources and answer that one for yourself. That you don’t, means you’re a science illiterate.
The evidence  on line outnumbers the bullshit by a factor of 100  to 1. So stop the bullshitting.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 3, 2022)

DBA said:


> have a slew of old National Geograhic magazines claiming that we should have had a catastrophic outcome by now.


That’s stupid. The have them all the time. You live under a rock.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 3, 2022)

DBA said:


> I have a slew of old National Geograhic magazines claiming that we should have had a catastrophic outcome by now.



You mean like these?  









						You ask, I provide. November 2nd, 1922. Arctic Ocean Getting Warm; Seals Vanish and Icebergs Melt.
					

Roger Carr recently wrote in comments: HELP WANTED: I am trying to purchase (or plunder) a full copy of this story, mentioned here on this forum: A Washington, D.C. resident John Lockwood was condu…




					wattsupwiththat.com
				












						Study: Global warming will cause 180,000 more rapes by 2099
					

Controversial new research predicts that over the coming century, rising temperatures will result in more violent crime.




					www.motherjones.com
				












						And That’s the Way It Was: In 1972, Cronkite Warned of ‘New Ice Age’
					

The “brutal” winter is on the attack again, bringing sleet and heavy snow to the mid-Atlantic region. Previous storms targeted the deep south including Dallas, Texas, and several hammered New England. By March 4, Boston was just 2 inches away from hitting an all-time record for snow, Boston.com...




					newsbusters.org
				












						Flashback 1989: UN Predicted Global Warming Would Destroy Entire Nations By 2000
					

Sounding like a Kool-Aid cult




					dailycaller.com
				












						FLASHBACK: ABC News Warns NYC Will Be Under Water by 2015 Due to Global Warming and Polar Bears Will Fall From Sky
					

Seven years ago ABC News warned viewers that New York City will be under water by 2015 due to global warming. New York City underwater? Gas over $9 a gallon? A carton of milk costs almost $13? Welcome to June 12, 2015. Or at least that was the wildly-inaccurate version of 2015 predicted by ABC…




					www.thegatewaypundit.com


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> There is only so much a US President can do amid a worldwide pandemic, one nobody alive in the US has ever seen before.  And remember it was DumBama who emptied all our PPE shelves during H1N1 and never replaced it.  The FDA only approved of one kind of test kit, and that was the ones made by the CDC.  When we put them to use, they were found defective and Trump had to start from scratch to replace those as well amid a worldwide demand for them.
> 
> In spite of all that the US had the least GDP decline of all G7 countries outside of China, and that's only if you trust their reporting.  Trump spent 13 billion dollars on 8 potential vaccine companies with contracts that the US gets the first 200 million doses with a rider for an additional 500 million on demand so we Americans came first.  They laughed at him when he stated we would have a vaccine by the end of the year, and we ended up with two of them.
> 
> ...



Actually the covid pandemic is exactly like all other corona virus colds and flues.
The problem that cause it to stay forever and kill so many people, was the deliberate strategy of the CDC.
Which was attempting to "flatten the curve".

There are 2 main epidemic strategies, based on how lethal it is.

If very lethal, like Ebola, then you do full quarantine, which includes things like contract tracing, masks, social distancing, isolation, etc.
That costs a lot, but ends lethal epidemics in less than 2 weeks.

If not very lethal, like flu, then you instead encourage the initial spike, in order to cause all the easy hosts to be used up quickly, preventing the virus from being able to easily find news hosts, to sustain itself.  That is the herd immunity approach, and also ends epidemics in less than 2 weeks.

What you NEVER want to do is "flatten the curve".
That is not full quarantine, because you do not shut down everything, and you do not bother with contact tracing.
That is not herd immunity because by cutting the infection and death rate in half, you conserve easy hosts, ensuring the epidemic can NEVER end.
Flattening the curve has a low daily death rate, but the highest possible death total, because instead of ending in 2 weeks, it goes on FOREVER.


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 3, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> And all the while, Putin is murdering civilians, Trump is asking him for help in his next election.



That is not what really is happening.
It is the Ukraine that started murdering civilians, even before the military coup of 2014.
The Ukraine has been stealing oil, murdering ethnic Russians, and violating treaties for decades.
Russia happens to be the good guys in this conflict.

Trump is corrupt, but in this case, he is not asking for "help", but just asking for the truth, which is that the Bidens were taking kickbacks for illegally bribing bureaucrats in the Ukraine to murder and steal.


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Ignorance is saying every scientist agrees with you when there are hundreds that don't.



A lot of scientists are very narrow and just focus on one subject, in which there is nothing about atmospheric chemistry.
If you ask someone who knows about something like electronics about climate, you might as well as a painter.
They are not going to know a thing about it.

So you have to qualify which "scientists" you ask.
And when you reduce the set to only those who understand atmospheric physics, it is then 100% who warn of global warming being man made.  

The only disagreement among those who know atmospheric physics, is how quickly and badly it is likely to accelerate.
The acceleration forces are increased water vapor and thawing methane hydrate that was frozen before.
The slow down forces are that increased water vapor will produce clouds that reflect and increase albedo.
But who wants to live on a planet where the skies are perpetually cloudy?


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Nope, climate has been changing since the earth was made, that's a fact.  The other fact is we can't change that no matter what we do.  How do I know this?  Because they've been trying since I was a child back in the 60's.  Since that time they've outlawed many products and it cost us trillions of dollars. And guess what?  They are more upset today than they were over 50 years ago.
> 
> Climate change is a bottomless money pit that can never be filled even if we used every dollar in this country.  And I'll ask you a question no enviro-nut has ever been able to answer:  What are the metrics that will shut you people up forever, and how much will it cost us?
> 
> Sometimes while on this subject, I picture a classroom of children in school a hundred years or so from today.  The teacher tells the children that back in the 2000's, man thought they could control the climate, and the children bust out in laughter like when our teachers told us at one time, man thought the earth was flat and if you go too far, you'll fall off.



That is not true.
The products they outlawed had nothing to do with climate, but were highly concentrated neuro toxins that we were inadvertently getting into our food chain.

They have tried to reduce emissions slightly with auto emissions regulations, but they actually cost us nothing and saved us millions, because the forced cars to go from 10 mpg, to 30 mpg.

Reducing climate change costs us nothing.
It saves us money to use less fossil fuel.

As to what is the goal to stop claim change, it is to not produce more carbon emissions than plants use up.
It is homeostasis.
Where carbon is not accumulating and increasing in the atmosphere.







The industrial carbon we are adding is not that large, only about 5 trillions tons a years or so.
But the problem is they are unbalanced, and accumulating.
So that can not be allowed to continue.
We have to reduce back to a sustainable level, where plants can remove ALL that we produce.
Otherwise eventually we all die.


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The difference of course is we have empirical evidence all those other things work.  Climate change is a theory, not a reality.  There is no proof that it actually exists, only that yes, the climate changes.



That is not true.
We know exactly how climate change works, because you can duplicate greenhouse gas experiments in a lab.
When solar energy hits the earth, it can't escape by conduction, because the earth is surrounded by vacuum.
The only way it can leave is by photonic radiation.
And this can only happen at the outer edges of the atmosphere, the boundary to space.
So if you add carbon to that boundary, it blocks photonic radiation and converts it to vibratory heat.
Which then forces the whole planet to retain more heat.

Natural climate cycles are over 110,000 years long, and we have artificially duplicated those changes in less than 100 years.


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 3, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Same BS. No shit Denier.  You really have no idea do you ? But neither does any-other denier. So, you’re in good company with other Trump munchkins.  At no time in the history of mankind, has the climate changed at a rate as fast as it has since the industrial revolution. Being a science and math illiterate, I guess you ‘re going to pretend now you have no idea how rare of change in a climate affects species do you ? . Hilarious.



I happen to agree with you on this, but you are not helping.
That is no way to convince anyone of anything.
Try sticking to facts, without all the coercive value judgements.


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The recession was mostly due to the housing crash which many a Democrat had their fingerprints on.  In fact it all started with Bill Clinton when he put in the then youngest leader of HUD,  Andrew Cuomo.  They instituted policies like zero down and no credit check with Clinton's mad desire to put more minorities in houses.  Well it worked.  He got more minorities in houses and GW didn't stop it.  However Republicans in Congress did try to stop it and was met with strong opposition by the Democrats.  Need the videos, just ask.
> 
> Yes, the Supreme Court got involved in the election (which they normally don't do) because of the constitutional violation of legislating from the bench.  The LAW states all ballots have to be turned in within 7 days whether there's a recount or not.  As for Gore winning if that didn't happen:
> 
> ...



I was buying/selling real estate back during the 2007 crash, and disagree HUD was a problem.
HUD FHA loans were and are actually much stricter and harder to get than conventional loans.
HUD, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, etc, also had a lower delinquency rate than conventional.
The problem was greedy real estate brokers using adjustable rate mortgages with large balloon payments, based on the British LIBOR instead of US prime.  
Banks would then combine these "subprime" mortgages into "toxic derivatives" that Fannie Mae was required by law to buy up.

You have to know it was NOT the home buyers that caused the real estate crash, because they were paying their mortgage for years without problem, before the crash, and they paid rents reliably after the crash.
They were not the problem.
The problem was that balloon payments and inability to refinance, forced mortgage payments to double.
It was essentially theft by the banks.


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You mean like these?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



First of all, the industrial revolution around 1830 DID start some significant climate change problems.
Which we reduced by finding cleaner ways to make steel and produce energy.

Walter Cronkite was correct that in theory we should be entering an ice age.
But that is from the normal and natural 110,000 year long cycle, and is irrelevant compared to the fact we are still just slightly past the warmest part of the natural cycle, and are artificially adding a whole additional heating cycle on top of the natural one.

Imagine if we had NOT reacted to the environmental warnings of the 1960s, and instead still all drove cars getting 10 mpg?


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> noun, plural the·o·ries.
> a coherent group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity.
> 
> a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.
> ...



Sorry, but that is incorrect.

In detective stories, a "theory" is conjecture.
In science, a "theory" is the over all or underlying abstract explanation, and has no conjecture implied at all.

Well established and proven scientific explanations are called "theory".
The reason scientist call proven abstract explanations "theory", is that the underlying cause usually is not that useful, and to allow for further additions and changes, since science actually is infinite and never completely settled.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 3, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> I happen to agree with you on this, but you are not helping.
> That is no way to convince anyone of anything.
> Try sticking to facts, without all the coercive value judgements.


Facts ? Really ? There are thousands of websites that give you all the evidence any literate science person needs. You have to be shitting  me if you think I’m going to debate by copy paste climate change evidence which is in abundance….literally everywhere people don’t  have their head up their ass. I find it really silly to debate the weather with my dog as it would be to debate climate change with a denier.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 3, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> That is no way to convince anyone of anything.


Seriously. You think you can convince  a denier of anything. It’s a waste of tIme. They know so little about science in general, you’d have start with “ see spot run.” They have an agenda that has nothing to do with knowledge.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 3, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> Well established and proven scientific explanations are called "theory".


They are NEVER proven. Everytime we make that  mistake we play into the hands of deniers. Theories are altered, changed and added to as more evidence is found. Thats why they are called theories. They are subject to change. We keep confusing geometry with natural science.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 3, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> That is not what really is happening.
> It is the Ukraine that started murdering civilians, even before the military coup of 2014.
> The Ukraine has been stealing oil, murdering ethnic Russians, and violating treaties for decades.
> Russia happens to be the good guys in this conflict.
> ...


Seriously ? Trump asked the the president of Ukraine to make up shit on Biden or he wouldn’t  get the weapons he wanted.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 3, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Seriously ? Trump asked the the president of Ukraine to make up shit on Biden or he wouldn’t  get the weapons he wanted.



Let's see the evidence of your lie..................I mean claim.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 3, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> Sorry, but that is incorrect.
> 
> In detective stories, a "theory" is conjecture.
> In science, a "theory" is the over all or underlying abstract explanation, and has no conjecture implied at all.
> ...



It is in some cases.  Years ago our river caught on fire.  The theory was that industry could dump toxic chemicals into the river because the river emptied into Lake Erie and it would dissipate to the point nobody would know.  It would be so diluted it couldn't possible cause harm to anybody. 

Well the river caught on fire and since we all know water isn't flamable, the theory was flawed.  We had empirical evidence that it was the chemicals that started the fire, and that's when we took action to correct the problem.  

With global warming or climate change, we have no such evidence.  Is the climate changing?  Yes it is.  It's been changing since God made the place, but no empirical evidence man has anything to do with it.  In fact they changed it from global warming to climate change because there was evidence the globe was not warming at all.  That too was a flawed theory.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 3, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> First of all, the industrial revolution around 1830 DID start some significant climate change problems.
> Which we reduced by finding cleaner ways to make steel and produce energy.
> 
> Walter Cronkite was correct that in theory we should be entering an ice age.
> ...



There is nothing wrong with doing things better or cleaner.  The problem is the cost in which to do it.  As I stated earlier in the post, climate change is a bottomless money pit.  All the money in the country.....in the world could never fill it, yet we continue to dump trillions of dollars to fight something that we have no control over.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 3, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> I was buying/selling real estate back during the 2007 crash, and disagree HUD was a problem.
> HUD FHA loans were and are actually much stricter and harder to get than conventional loans.
> HUD, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, etc, also had a lower delinquency rate than conventional.
> The problem was greedy real estate brokers using adjustable rate mortgages with large balloon payments, based on the British LIBOR instead of US prime.
> ...



It's up to the consumer to gain knowledge of what they are buying.  When standards were dropped, people ran to he bank for home loans.  I know because during that time I lost a few good tenants who were over their head in credit and had not much money in the bank.  One of them was renting his television set.  

Banks gave the loans because the borrower thought "I can afford X amount of dollars per month" not realizing it was only going to go up from there.  You can't get less than 2% on a mortgage.  Rates went up, these people were all mortgaged with an arm, and they could no longer afford it.  

All people knew at the time is they could afford a home and nothing about borrowing money, especially poor people.  With 0 dollars down and no credit check, the lowlifes began buying houses in the suburbs and destroyed the areas.  They had no intention or ability to pay a mortgage, but it was a free vacation from the projects for a while.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 3, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> Reducing climate change costs us nothing.
> It saves us money to use less fossil fuel.











						Fighting climate change is a $150 trillion battle: Bank of America report
					

Decarbonizing the world would take $5 trillion a year of investment over the next 30 years, a new Bank of America report found.




					finance.yahoo.com


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Apr 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You and I both know Trump was pro-gun.  He only did that because of the Vegas shooting to show he's doing something.  Trump would have never tried to ban magazines or ammo.



Be careful how much faith and trust you place in a former New York Democrat Billionaire.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Let's see the evidence of your lie..................I mean claim.


So you’re living under a rock. Trump couldn’t get the evidence when he was president,  commander  and chief with the DOJ, FBI and CIA appointees under his wing. What, are you nuts ? He’s now hounding Putin while Putin is busy orchestrating genocide. By Humpers will continue to hang with the dufus delux.


----------



## otto105 (Apr 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Let's see the evidence of your lie..................I mean claim.


First ray, post the transcript of the phone call.

That should be a good start to rudy heading over there.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 3, 2022)

otto105 said:


> First ray, post the transcript of the phone call.
> 
> That should be a good start to rudy heading over there.



When you call somebody out they are the ones that are to provide evidence of their lie, not the person calling out.  I know what the transcript said, and I'll bet your dime to my dollars you won't find once where Trump threatened to not send aid to Ukraine unless Zelensky investigated the Biden's.  What Trump asked for was a favor.  Need the definition of what a favor means, just ask.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 3, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> So you’re living under a rock. Trump couldn’t get the evidence when he was president,  commander  and chief with the DOJ, FBI and CIA appointees under his wing. What, are you nuts ? He’s now hounding Putin while Putin is busy orchestrating genocide. By Humpers will continue to hang with the dufus delux.



How is Trump supposed to get evidence of anything happening in another country?  That's why he asked Zelensky to see if he could find out anything about it.  It's Zelensky's country.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 4, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> How is Trump supposed to get evidence of anything happening in another country?  That's why he asked Zelensky to see if he could find out anything about it.  It's Zelensky's country.


It’s a U.S. citizens. Dah. You guys can’t be that naive. I think you’re just pretending so you can keep supporting a criminal.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 4, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> Trump is corrupt, but in this case, he is not asking for "help", but just asking for the truth, which is that the Bidens were taking kickbacks for illegally bribing bureaucrats in the Ukraine to murder and steal.


Hilarious. Who in their right mind would expect the truth from Putin ? Trump and his Humpers.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 4, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> It’s a U.S. citizens. Dah. You guys can’t be that naive. I think you’re just pretending so you can keep supporting a criminal.



Trump never did anything criminal.  That's the communists making false claims.  The first impeachment from your Holy Bible, 1984, with the thought police.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 4, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Trump never did anything criminal.  That's the communists making false claims.  The first impeachment from your Holy Bible, 1984, with the thought police.


Two counts of fraud.


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 4, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Facts ? Really ? There are thousands of websites that give you all the evidence any literate science person needs. You have to be shitting  me if you think I’m going to debate by copy paste climate change evidence which is in abundance….literally everywhere people don’t  have their head up their ass. I find it really silly to debate the weather with my dog as it would be to debate climate change with a denier.



I think there is absolute evidence of climate change caused by fossil fuel combustion emissions, but that is because I have a degree in physics and have done the research. 
It is not unreasonable for those without the background and insight to be unable to understand how vehicle emissions, which are fairly small compared to normal and natural carbon emissions, could have such an impact.
For anyone to understand that, they have to realize it is not the total emissions that count, but only the emissions that are in excess of the natural and normal means by which carbon is reabsorbed by plants, minerals, etc.
Once you have an imbalance, with more being created than can be absorbed, then you have an accumulation problem.
This is actually rather subtle and not intuitive, so it is not appropriate to try to slander those who do not get it.
Instead it is better to try to just explain it to them better, with the assumption they can and will understand, if explained properly.


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 4, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Hilarious. Who in their right mind would expect the truth from Putin ? Trump and his Humpers.



Burisma Holdings was about oil corporations in the Ukraine, and the oil corporations in the Ukraine were the ones illegal siphoning off billions worth of Russian oil.
For example, the world court rules against the Ukraine for stealing oil in 2012.








						Russia–Ukraine gas disputes - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 4, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> Burisma Holdings was about oil corporations in the Ukraine, and the oil corporations in the Ukraine were the ones illegal siphoning off billions worth of Russian oil.
> For example, the world court rules against the Ukraine for stealing oil in 2012.
> 
> 
> ...


Your reason to commit genocide. Thought so. Siding with Putin. Sounds like more Putin / Trump butt kissing ? Stealing oil in 2012. Wow. Guess carrying grudge for ten years makes it all worth while.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 4, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> think there is absolute evidence of climate change caused by fossil fuel combustion emissions, but that is because I have a degree in physics and have done the research.


Here we go. Another self proclaimed expert. A degree in physics. I wonder where that’s from. Hmmm. There isn’t one institute that awards degrees in physics that doesn’t support global warming. So much for physics degrees. You just decreed they are useless.

I’m a nuclear physicist on week ends around my my day job as a brain surgeon. Need help ? Everyone is an expert….on the net. Go ahead. Find one accredited university in science that doesn’t buy in AGW. Just one.


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 4, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Your reason to commit genocide. Thought so. Siding with Putin. Sounds like more Putin / Trump butt kissing ? Stealing oil in 2012. Wow. Guess carrying grudge for ten years makes it all worth while.



Wrong.
That particular conviction in the World Court was in 2012, but the Ukraine has always been stealing oil and gas, because the Russian pipelines were built through the Ukraine, as the shortest distance.
The only reason why the world court ruled in Russia's favor in this one case, is because Russia got Switzerland in as partners on that 2012 deal.  Otherwise it would be just their word against the Ukraine's.

And it is stupid to claim Russia is the one guilty of attempted genocide, when it is the Ukraine who deliberately murder 14k ethnic Russian civilians.


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 4, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Here we go. Another self proclaimed expert. A degree in physics. I wonder where that’s from. Hmmm. There isn’t one institute that awards degrees in physics that doesn’t support global warming. So much for physics degrees. You just decreed they are useless.
> 
> I’m a nuclear physicist on week ends around my my day job as a brain surgeon. Need help ? Everyone is an expert….on the net. Go ahead. Find one accredited university in science that doesn’t buy in AGW. Just one.



You really need to read better.
I was agreeing with you about global warming.
I was just trying to get you to be less obnoxious in your use of language so there are greater chances of actually convincing someone else.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 4, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> You really need to read better.
> I was agreeing with you about global warming.
> I was just trying to get you to be less obnoxious in your use of language so there are greater chances of actually convincing someone else.


Global warming (AGW)  is as verifiable as as anything in science. Anyone can go on line and find the answers to inane questions from deniers  about it. Seriously, why should anyone waste their time debating it . Their comments continually reveal their science illiteracy.  You think anyone is going to convince a science illiterate person who gets his ideas  from Tucker ?  That’s funny.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 4, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> That particular conviction in the World Court was in 2012, but the Ukraine has always been stealing oil and gas, because the Russian pipelines were built through the Ukraine, as the shortest distance.
> The only reason why the world court ruled in Russia's favor in this one case, is because Russia got Switzerland in as partners on that 2012 deal.  Otherwise it would be just their word against the Ukraine's.
> 
> And it is stupid to claim Russia is the one guilty of attempted genocide, when it is the Ukraine who deliberately murder 14k ethnic Russian civilians.


Keep drinking the cool aid. That claimed degree in physics doesn’t cut it for rationalizing what’s going on in Ukraine. Maybe a geography lesson would help. It’s not the other way around…..oh, someone stole oil 10 years ago.
Russian is bombing the shit out of a Ukraine. Did your get your degree from Putin U or Trump U.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 4, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> is not unreasonable for those without the background and insight to be unable to understand how vehicle emissions, which are fairly small compared to normal and natural carbon emissions, could have such an impact.


Haha  ? Really ? You need a degree to figure out when someone else is bonkers ?


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 4, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> You really need to read better.
> I was agreeing with you about global warming.
> I was just trying to get you to be less obnoxious in your use of language so there are greater chances of actually convincing someone else.


You have a “degree“ in physics. You should know then that AGW is directly related to evolution……right ?


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 4, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Global warming (AGW)  is as verifiable as as anything in science. Anyone can go on line and find the answers to inane questions from deniers  about it. Seriously, why should anyone waste their time debating it . Their comments continually reveal their science illiteracy.  You think anyone is going to convince a science illiterate person who gets his ideas  from Tucker ?  That’s funny.



Are you reading anything at all?
This twice now that I am forced to tell you we AGREE that man made global warming is real.
Again, the point of my post was NOT to argue about global warming, but to tell you that your posts are so obnoxious as to be extremely counter productive.


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 4, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Keep drinking the cool aid. That claimed degree in physics doesn’t cut it for rationalizing what’s going on in Ukraine. Maybe a geography lesson would help. It’s not the other way around…..oh, someone stole oil 10 years ago.
> Russian is bombing the shit out of a Ukraine. Did your get your degree from Putin U or Trump U.



No, the CONVICTION proving theft of oil by the Ukraine was 10 years ago.
The Ukraine was stealing oil before and after the conviction.
They are still stealing oil right now.

And you are totally ignorant of the war in the Ukraine.
For example, you claim, "Russian is bombing the shit out of a Ukraine".
And that is totally false.
Due to the stinger missiles, Russian has not use their air force in the Ukraine, at all.
There is NO bombing going on.
It is all artillery.


----------



## otto105 (Apr 4, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> When you call somebody out they are the ones that are to provide evidence of their lie, not the person calling out.  I know what the transcript said, and I'll bet your dime to my dollars you won't find once where Trump threatened to not send aid to Ukraine unless Zelensky investigated the Biden's.  What Trump asked for was a favor.  Need the definition of what a favor means, just ask.


Was the military aid to Ukraine being held up at the time of the orange call?

Yes or no?


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 4, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Haha  ? Really ? You need a degree to figure out when someone else is bonkers ?



You again clearly have not read anything I wrote.
If you had, you would have understood why so many get it wrong and do not understand why human emissions have caused global warming.
The point is that while human carbon emissions are less than 10% of the gross carbon emissions, they are 100% of the carbon emissions that can not be processed by nature and accumulate.
Again, you probably are not reading and won't get this, but I will keep trying to explain it to you anyway.


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 4, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> You have a “degree“ in physics. You should know then that AGW is directly related to evolution……right ?



AGW has nothing to do with evolution.
Evolution is slow and takes millions of years, while AGW is making huge climate changes in less than 100 years.


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 4, 2022)

otto105 said:


> Was the military aid to Ukraine being held up at the time of the orange call?
> 
> Yes or no?


Since Obama sent no military aid to the Ukraine ever, that seems a pointless question.

The White House said that Trumps military aid to the Ukraine was held up, but over the DNC hack investigation, NOT over the Burisma Holdings investigation.

{...
Acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney said Thursday that President Trump withheld military aid to Ukraine until it looked into the debunked conspiracy theory that Ukrainian nationals were in possession of a computer server belonging to the Democratic National Committee.

Asked why the administration had withheld $400 million in military aid allocated by Congress to help Ukraine defend itself from Russian aggression, Mulvaney first cited the president’s desire to make sure Kiev’s government was not corrupt. Then, confirming a quid pro quo laid out in the partial summary released by the White House of Trump’s July 25 call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, Mulvaney cited a conspiracy theory involving the DNC server that housed emails leaked during the 2016 campaign.

Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani and some in the administration have been looking for evidence that the DNC hack was carried out by Ukrainian agents seeking to help the Clinton campaign, rather than Russians trying to help Trump — which was the conclusion of U.S. intelligence agencies.

“Did he also mention to me in the past the corruption related to the DNC server?” Mulvaney responded when asked about the president’s public call for China to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden. “Absolutely. No question about that. But that’s it. That’s why we held up the money.”
...}








						White House confirms it tied Ukraine aid to help in pursuing conspiracy theory on DNC hack
					

Acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney confirmed that the president withheld military aid from Ukraine because he wanted the country to look for a computer server belonging to the Democratic National Committee.




					news.yahoo.com


----------



## otto105 (Apr 4, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> Since Obama sent no military aid to the Ukraine ever, that seems a pointless question.
> 
> The White House said that Trumps military aid to the Ukraine was held up, but over the DNC hack investigation, NOT over the Burisma Holdings investigation.
> 
> ...


President Obama's aid to the country is not germane to the question asked.


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 4, 2022)

otto105 said:


> President Obama's aid to the country is not germane to the question asked.



It is germane because Biden illegally withheld the cash Obama was sending, in order to force the firing of Shokin.
It was Biden who illegally used US foreign aid in a quid pro quo, to stop any investigation of Burisma Holdings.


----------



## otto105 (Apr 4, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> It is germane because Biden illegally withheld the cash Obama was sending, in order to force the firing of Shokin.
> It was Biden who illegally used US foreign aid in a quid pro quo, to stop any investigation of Burisma Holdings.


Your understanding of that is wingnut silo bullshit.

The Obama administration working with the EU and the IMF had tied the billion loan guarantee to Shokin being fired because he was an Russian asset in Ukraine. He had no active investigations of Burisma or Hunter Biden at the time of his firing. He was widely considered to be a compromised official, ya know the kind that the former 1-term president could only like.

Additionally, he currently resides in Russia.


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 4, 2022)

otto105 said:


> Your understanding of that is wingnut silo bullshit.
> 
> The Obama administration working with the EU and the IMF had tied the billion loan guarantee to Shokin being fired because he was an Russian asset in Ukraine. He had no active investigations of Burisma or Hunter Biden at the time of his firing. He was widely considered to be a compromised official, ya know the kind that the former 1-term president could only like.
> 
> Additionally, he currently resides in Russia.



The EU and IMF is just about as corrupt as the US is.
It is totally and completely immoral to tie a loan guarantee to the firing of the Attorney General.
It is illegal for foreign pressure to be able to cause that to happen.
Whether or not Shokin was a Russian asset is irrelevant, since the Ukraine use to be part of the Soviet Union, and had signed treaties to remain a Russian ally.
It makes absolutely NO difference at all if Shokin had started an investigation of Burisma Holdings or not.
All that matters is that Biden did not want one to start, and that he illegally used US foreign aid in order to extort Shokin's illegal termination.


----------



## otto105 (Apr 4, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> The EU and IMF is just about as corrupt as the US is.
> It is totally and completely immoral to tie a loan guarantee to the firing of the Attorney General.
> It is illegal for foreign pressure to be able to cause that to happen.
> Whether or not Shokin was a Russian asset is irrelevant, since the Ukraine use to be part of the Soviet Union, and had signed treaties to remain a Russian ally.
> ...


Again, I'm not buying your Russian take on the issue. The Ukraine under Russian influence was a very corrupt country. Removing corruption is goal, not something to tolerate. The Obama administration with the EU and IMF had the correct policy.

And yeah, everything is corrupt right. Unless it validates my biases, right.

Don't let facts get in the way.

Fact check: Biden leveraged $1B in aid to Ukraine to oust corrupt prosecutor, not to help his son


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 4, 2022)

otto105 said:


> Again, I'm not buying your Russian take on the issue. The Ukraine under Russian influence was a very corrupt country. Removing corruption is goal, not something to tolerate. The Obama administration with the EU and IMF had the correct policy.
> 
> And yeah, everything is corrupt right. Unless it validates my biases, right.
> 
> ...



I disagree.
The Ukraine under US influence became much MORE corrupt, not less.
Such as murdering 14k ethnic Russians, violating treaties, stealing Russian oil, trying to get NATO nukes, etc.
It is totally corrupt and illegal for a foreign and distant government to try to get the Attorney General fired.
It should not even be possible if not for the country being totally corrupt.

If you think the US, IMF, and EU are not corrupt, then why were they trying to take over the government of the Ukraine?
We have no legitimate strategic interest in the Ukraine, other than trying to illegally harm Russia.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 4, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> AGW has nothing to do with evolution.
> Evolution is slow and takes millions of years, while AGW is making huge climate changes in less than 100 years.


So much for your so called degree. The rate of change of the climate by accelerating has allowed species (like deer ticks and Lyme disease) to evolve faster then their natural enemies. It has nothing to do with the climate changing, it has to do with the climate changing faster then OUR species and others, can adapt. Any graph in world aver temps and emissions show how steep the rate of change is than any time then in the history of man kind.

Geesus, in physics you need calc. ….evolution isn’t slow. It’s rapid and oft unpredictable in the virus, bacterial and simple disease carrying world our species has to face. Geesus, so much for that physics degree……it was wasted if it ever existed. You should have taken a bio course to go with it.

Evolution is slow ? That’s the statement of a  child.
wtf do you call selective breeding. It’s variable.  It didn’t take millions of years to develope the dairy cow….


this why frauds need to be called out and not pampered.


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 4, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> So much for your so called degree. The rate of change of the climate by accelerating has allowed species (like deer ticks and Lyme disease) to evolve faster then their natural enemies. It has nothing to do with the climate changing, it has to do with the climate changing faster then OUR species and others, can adapt. Any graph in world aver temps and emissions show how steep the rate of change is than any time then in the history of man kind.
> 
> Geesus, in physics you need calc. ….evolution isn’t slow. It’s rapid and oft unpredictable in the virus, bacterial and simple disease carrying world our species has to face. Geesus, so much for that physics degree……it was wasted if it ever existed. You should have taken a bio course to go with it.
> 
> ...



Wrong.
Selective breeding is NOT evolution.
For selective breeding to be possible, the traits you select for have to already exist.
Evolution requires mutations to create absolutely NEW traits.
That is very slow because almost all random changes like that are not viable, and can not propagate at all.
So you have to wait for random events to cause changes that actually are better instead of worse.
That can take a very long time.
Then the trait has to become more dominant some how.
And that is from the natural selection aspect of evolution.
That can happen very quickly.
Just a few generations even.
But evolution is not just natural selection, but accidental mutation first, and then natural selection.

By the way, when people talk about virus mutations, they likely are wrong.
While a virus does not reproduce sexually, it is possible for more than one virus to injects its RMA or DNA into the same cell nucleus.  When that happens, new combinations are possible, similar to hybrids, even though not sexual.
So a new virus trait is possible very quickly, without any random mutation taking place.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 4, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"


Assault weapons were all but banned 88 years ago.

Time to invoke the Twenty-fifth Amendment.  Traitor Joe doesn't even know what century it is.




protectionist said:


> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> 3.  Hold gun Manufacturers "accountable"


Traitor Joe will have to get used to being disappointed.  Americans will not allow him to violate their civil liberties.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 4, 2022)

gipper said:


> All three losers actually did nothing to limit the second amendment.


That is incorrect.  Bill Clinton violated the Second Amendment.

Barack Obama tried hard to violate the Second Amendment.  The NRA defeated him.

Traitor Joe whines because the NRA won't let him violate the Second Amendment.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 4, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> In May 1994, former presidents Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, and Ronald Reagan, wrote to the U.S. House of Representatives in support of banning "semi-automatic assault guns.


That is a contradictory term.  There is no such gun.

Assault weapons have full-auto or burst-fire capability.  Semi-auto-only guns are not assault weapons.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 4, 2022)

Missourian said:


> True... and I agree... but I believe the judicial overturned that ban as unconstitutional.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Golfing Gator said:


> Thanks for the link.  With all that was going on in 2021 I missed that story.


That was a mid-level appeals decision in a case that is destined for higher courts no matter who wins the early cases.

The Supreme Court will be the ultimate decider, and they probably won't hear the case until next year.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 4, 2022)

busybee01 said:


> Banning certain types of weapons does not infringe on the right to bear arms.


It does when we have the right to have those types of weapons.




busybee01 said:


> There is no need for high-capacity magazines.


That's the thing about rights.  When you have the right to have something, you aren't required to need it.




busybee01 said:


> A 20-round magazine is more than enough.


The police don't seem to think so.  They use 30 round rifle magazines to defend themselves against criminals.  That shows that 30 round rifle magazines are appropriate for self defense.




busybee01 said:


> A gun is inherently dangerous and has no redeeming value such as a car which can be useds to transport people or a knife whose purpose is to cut things.


That is incorrect.  Guns have much more of a redeeming value than cars or knives.  They are used in both hunting and self defense, not to mention sport competitions.




busybee01 said:


> Yes it does match up with reality. The AR-15 is the weapon of choice for mass murderers.


That is incorrect.  Mass murderers prefer handguns.




busybee01 said:


> There are no civil rights violations here.


That is incorrect.  Outlawing pistol grips on a semi-auto long gun is a civil rights violation.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 4, 2022)

bodecea said:


> Former President Obama already took all our guns, as the NRA warned us about.


Obama certainly tried.  The NRA stopped him from succeeding.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 4, 2022)

jasonnfree said:


> Joe's a good man.


Not really.  If he was, he wouldn't be trying to violate people's civil liberties for fun.




jasonnfree said:


> Who in the hell needs assault rifles


Biden's mind is slipping.  He doesn't know what century he is in.

Assault rifles were all but banned some 88 years ago.




jasonnfree said:


> and high capacity weapons unless you're a professional guard maybe.


The police use 20 round handgun magazines and 30 round rifle magazines for defense against criminals.  That shows that they are appropriate for self defense.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 5, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> All sound reasonable. But I’m for regulating them lIke full autos are.


Unconstitutional.  30 round rifle magazines are clearly appropriate for self defense.  Otherwise the police wouldn't be using them.




Dagosa said:


> Do you really need more then ten rounds or an assault style weapon ? If you do, get a permit and register it.


Assault style weapons were all but outlawed some 88 years ago.  Biden talks about them because dementia has set in and he doesn't know what century it is.




Dagosa said:


> You aren’t going to carry an assault weapon around with you.


People can keep AR-15s in their home and their car easily enough.




Dagosa said:


> Thats the main advantage of an assault rifle….light carry, low recoil and firepower. Do you really think you’re going to be attacked  by a herd of wild pigs in heat ? I’m assuming you live in a residential or business area and you want to use a weapon with a 600 yard killing range ? That’s ridiculous.


Not ridiculous at all.  AR-15s are appropriate weapons for self defense.  That's why the police use them.




Dagosa said:


> Get a permit, a couple of 20 gauge shotguns that everyone in your family can shoot


Everyone in my family can shoot an AR-15.




Dagosa said:


> and carry firearms you’ll always have with you…..with a permit. Hi cap 9 mm way over rated for anyone but a law Enforcement. They’re getting paid to face down multiple threats.


We have the right to protect ourselves from the same criminals.  If 20 round handgun magazines are appropriate for the police, then they are also appropriate for civilians.




Dagosa said:


> Really, no law abiding civilian  will be affected Or limited much for self defense.


The fact that police use 20 round handgun magazines and 30 round rifle magazines shows that they are appropriate for self defense.

The fact that they are appropriate for self defense means civilians have the right to have them.




Dagosa said:


> All bull crap. The policeman has a need in law enforcement for high cap pistols and full autos, just like the military does in some situations. The average citizen does not.  To make such an analogy is idiotic.


That is incorrect.  Ordinary people have the same right to self defense against the same criminals.




Dagosa said:


> Easy. We do it for full auto weapons. We can do it for all firearms….regulate.


Except you can't regulate all firearms as if they were full autos.

People have the right to have guns that are appropriate for self defense.

People also have the right to have any gun that there is no justification for outlawing.


----------



## Batcat (Apr 5, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I don't know if that's the reason.  We just passed our constitutional carry here in Ohio and as a CCW holder and gun advocate, I'm against the new law.  In fact my friends and family who also have CCW's are against it as well.
> 
> It's just a divided issue is all.  I'd rather live in Florida with the laws they have than live in one of these commie states with the laws they have any day of the week.


How many people journey to Ohio to see the sights? Is your winter weather so warm you can lay on a beach in a swimming suit or bikini and get sunburned? Do college kids go to Ohio on Spring Break. 

Tourists are a big deal here in Florida and one of the reasons Florida does not have an income tax. Tourists from places like New York City can walk into a store and not realize that several of the other customers are packing heat. (Over 2,000,000 Florida residents have concealed carry permits.) What the tourists don’t see doesn’t scare the crap out of them. 

I personally suspect the tourists would not be all that upset except when one noticed a cocked and locked .45 auto in a holster. Therefore I hope that someday constitutional carry will pass in Florida. It would make it easier to carry a midsize or full sized handgun in the Florida heat.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 5, 2022)

g5000 said:


> An assault weapons ban is theater for the rubes.  However, the courts have rejected every challenge to assault weapons ban, including the 1994 federal ban.


1994 did not outlaw assault weapons.  It outlawed ordinary semi-auto guns.

The fact that courts have allowed our civil liberties to be violated does not mean that such violations are OK.




g5000 said:


> As for "shall not be infringed", the Supreme Court has upheld several bans, including the machine gun ban signed into law by Ronald Reagan.
> You can't own a nuke, either.


People can justify restrictions on nukes and machine guns as satisfying a compelling government interest.

No such justification can be made for restrictions against pistol grips on a long gun.




g5000 said:


> The "gun grab" hoax is the best marketing ploy ever created by the gun manufacturing lobby.
> OBAMAZ CUMMIN FER YER GUNZ!  BUY MOAR!
> HILLAREEZ CUMMIN FER YER GUNZ!  BUY MOAR!
> BIDENZ CUMMIN FER YER GUNZ!  BUY MOAR!


No hoax.  They all really do want to outlaw defensive weapons like the AR-15.




g5000 said:


> Then why is the NRA opposing Biden's attempts to stop illegal gun trafficking?


My guess is because there is probably something blatantly unconstitutional about whatever Biden is trying to do there.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 5, 2022)

protectionist said:


> What do you mean by "Constitutional carry" ?  You mean OPEN carry (not concealed) ?


Constitutional carry means carry without a license being required.  Like in Vermont.

The term is usually used to refer to concealed carry, but I don't see why it could not also refer to unlicensed open carry.

I'm not sure how the term was coined.  One moment no one used the term.  And then the next moment from out of the blue suddenly everyone was using it.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 5, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Remington caved for 73 million dollars.





protectionist said:


> Surprising they didnt appeal this to the Supreme Court.





woodwork201 said:


> Yes it is; they signed their own death warrant.


Old Remington's liability insurers caved.  Neither the old nor the new Remington paid a dime.

As for why the liability insurers caved, who knows.  If I owned stock in one of those insurers, I'd be really pissed off right now.




woodwork201 said:


> But they're owned now by a leftist investment company and not by actual sportsmen, let alone by actual gun rights advocates.


I think you have that backwards.  The old Remington (that was sued, and whose insurers paid) was owned by an investment company and not actual sportsmen.

The new Remington is supposed to be owned by actual sportsmen.  I do not know if they have a gun rights focus too (I suspect probably not publicly, but maybe privately).  But they do seem to be actual sportsmen from what I've read about them.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 5, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> There's only one legitimate level of scrutiny for constitutional challenges: absolute scrutiny.  Either a thing violates the Constitution or it does not.
> Given limited time and resources, a court might not choose to hear a case but if they do hear the case then they do not have constitutional authority to ignore or create exceptions to the Constitution.


Do you mean Strict Scrutiny?


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 5, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> Yes they do and not you or any private citizen has a use for them other than your ego.


If you and they know what assault weapons are, why do you and they harp endlessly on weapons that were already outlawed for the general public 88 years ago?




Colin norris said:


> Really, what makes it automatic is how fast you can pull the trigger. You are desperate for justifications


AR-15s are not automatic.  They are only semi-auto.

No American is desperate for justifications.  We already know that we do not have to justify our rights.




Colin norris said:


> But the point being, your scenario is virtually impossible.  If there where that many you'd be dead before you got your gun.
> Expecting something that had never happened and unlikely to ever happen, is not justification.


No justification is required.  If we choose to have a gun for that situation, that's nobody else's business.




Colin norris said:


> A well armed militia does not include or mention your right to shoot people in a group.


The right of the people to keep and bear arms includes it.




Colin norris said:


> Youre wrong again. They are partly responsible for selling weapons to idiots who don't need them.


No, you are wrong again.  Americans don't have to convince you of our need.  And there is nothing wrong with selling Americans the sorts of weapons that we have a Constitutional right to have.




Colin norris said:


> Furthermore, the gun manufacturer was prosecuted and found guilty over the sandy hook massacre. Get some facts boy


So far you are the fact-free one.  The gun manufacturer was neither prosecuted nor found guilty.




Colin norris said:


> So that's a justification? Youre getting more desperate.


No one on the gun rights side is feeling desperate.  And no one on the gun rights side has to justify ourselves, so you may as well stop hoping for justification.




Colin norris said:


> Thats a pathetic argument.


No it isn't.




Colin norris said:


> There's simply no comparison. Guns are made for one thing.  To kill. Cars are not.


Even if that were true, it wouldn't matter.  But it's not true.

Defensive guns are made to rapidly incapacitate.

Sport guns are made for striking unliving objects.




Colin norris said:


> That is why they are not necessary for your average garden variety idiot who gets one because he can.


Progressives really do hate civil liberties.  Necessity could not be less relevant.




Colin norris said:


> The 2nd has been taken completely out of context and promoted by the nra and republican party.


Progressives are the only people who take the Second Amendment out of context.




Colin norris said:


> it is not a protect right to own a container full of guns you never use.


You are wrong about people never using their guns.

You are also wrong about the Second Amendment not protecting people's right to own guns.  It clearly says the right of the people to keep arms.




Colin norris said:


> Its says "a well armed militia".


No it doesn't.  It says right of the people.




Colin norris said:


> Nothing else.


Wrong.  There is a whole second half that talks about the right of the people.




Colin norris said:


> You are not part of any militia.


Irrelevant.  We are part of the people.  And it is the people who have the right to keep arms, and the right to use them in self defense.




Colin norris said:


> I said you don't need that many guns or assault rifles and you don't.


We don't have to need them.  We have the right to have them.




Colin norris said:


> Who cares? It can fire a lot if bullets very quickly.


So can many other guns.




Colin norris said:


> Youre be childishly pedantic with your justifications.


No one here is offering any justification.




Colin norris said:


> All the scenarios you suggest you need guns for are bullshit.


No one has said anything about needing guns.




Colin norris said:


> If be surprised if you used every one once a week for their designed purpose.


That's our business.




Colin norris said:


> You have them for testosterone reasons.


Not necessarily.  But if so, that's still our business.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 5, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yep, that's what it says, but remember that people back then talked a little differently than they do today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Look at his quote again.

What he wrote in his post is NOT what the Second Amendment says.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 5, 2022)

francoHFW said:


> The Supremes say it's fine.


No they don't.  And if they had said that, they would be wrong.

It is never OK to violate people's civil liberties.




francoHFW said:


> I'll go with the Supremes thanks.


The Supreme Court says that it is wrong for you to violate people's civil liberties.




francoHFW said:


> And a ban on new military style


Military style weapons were all but outlawed some 88 years ago.

Are you joining Biden in not being able to comprehend what century it is?




francoHFW said:


> Nobody's coming for any guns lol,


That's because the NRA won't let you.




francoHFW said:


> they might ban new sales, you jackasses will have to get by with the 20 million already around....


The NRA will not let you do that either.


----------



## Colin norris (Apr 5, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> If you and they know what assault weapons are, why do you and they harp endlessly on weapons that were already outlawed for the general public 88 years ago?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't care how many guns you have or how you pathetically justify them. 
You have no use for half your weapons other than ego to show your gun nut mates. Its a fact.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 5, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> I don't care how many guns you have or how you pathetically justify them.


You don't get it.  I never justify myself.  I never have to.




Colin norris said:


> You have no use for half your weapons other than ego to show your gun nut mates. Its a fact.


You don't know that.  But even if it's true, that's my business.


----------



## Colin norris (Apr 5, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> You don't get it.  I never justify myself.  I never have to.


Thats what i said you parrot. 


Open Bolt said:


> You don't know that.  But even if it's true, that's my business.


I know I'm right and so do you.  Dont give me that mealy mouthed excuse. 
You have them for your pretend protection. Do you carry them all when you go shopping? Home of the brave ay?  You wimp.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 5, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> Thats what i said you parrot.


No it isn't.  You said I had tried to justify myself.  I never do that.




Colin norris said:


> I know I'm right and so do you.  Dont give me that mealy mouthed excuse.


Why do you keep falsely accusing me of offering excuses?

I do not offer any excuses at all.




Colin norris said:


> You have them for your pretend protection. Do you carry them all when you go shopping? Home of the brave ay?  You wimp.


I'm certainly braver than you are.

And if I ever have to protect myself, there will be nothing pretend about it.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 5, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> You guys tried to over thrown a constitutionally sanctioned election.


Trying is nothing.  Barack Obama actually pulled it off.  He stole Michigan's presidential primary in 2008.




Dagosa said:


> KInd of ridiculous argument. Democrats wanted all questionable votes to be recounted.


Then they shouldn't have wasted so much time recounting only the Gore-heavy precincts.




Dagosa said:


> The court only got involved because of the time constraint. The full recount would have taken too long.


That's because the left wasted so much time trying to count only the specific precincts where Gore had the heaviest support.  By the time they gave up on that, there was no time left for a full and fair recount to take place.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 5, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Specifically, the second amendment says that the right to bear arms in a _*well organized militia*_ cannot be infringed upon.  It doesn't say that the country should be allowed to become dodge city.


The Second Amendment says a lot more than that.  The right of the people to keep arms for example.




Wickerthing said:


> If you don't know that to be the truth, then you have never read the second amendment.


If you read the Second Amendment you see that there is also something there about the people keeping arms.




Wickerthing said:


> It was the Gun Lobby that has been convincing people that the second amendment says anyone can have a gun.


No, it was more the hard fact that the Second Amendment, and the right to keep and bear arms before it, does say that the people have the right to have guns.




Wickerthing said:


> The actual wording is this:  _*“As part of a well regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”*_


No it isn't.  That isn't even remotely the actual wording of the Second Amendment.




Wickerthing said:


> Bullshit.  An individual cannot be a well regulated Militia.


Who cares?  It is not the militia that has the right to keep and bear arms, but the people.  And an individual can be part of the people.




Wickerthing said:


> The NRA has been selling the bogus idea that anyone can have a gun since the late 19th century.


Progressives hate the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, but no.  Neither the Constitution nor the Bill of Rights are bogus.




Wickerthing said:


> What is well regulated about guns through the mail or at gun shows?


That's a weird question.  It suggests that you have no idea what "well regulated" means.

"Well regulated" meant that a militia was so well armed and well trained that they were a highly effective fighting force.




Wickerthing said:


> And it got that way because of misinterpretation of the second amendment along with lobbying by groups like the NRA.


Progressives are the only people who misinterpret the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.




Wickerthing said:


> America has too many weapons.


Nonsense.




Wickerthing said:


> They are too available.


Our civil liberties mandate their availability.




Wickerthing said:


> There's no double talking around the fact that countries with fewer weapons have less crime.


Fake news.  That isn't even remotely a fact.




Wickerthing said:


> Compare Japan stats to US stats for instance.


There are plenty of countries with widespread gun ownership and little crime.  Switzerland for example.




Wickerthing said:


> An AR15 can be converted easily to mimic an M16.  Fully automatic.


Only if you have the special parts to do such a conversion.  Parts that are illegal if you don't have a license to make or sell machine guns.




Wickerthing said:


> That can't be done with a hunting rifle etc.


Sure it can.  The AR-15 _is_ a hunting rifle.




Wickerthing said:


> You have 30 AR's ?  What are you paranoid about?


It is unlikely that he is paranoid about anything at all.




Wickerthing said:


> And BTW your interpretation of the second amendment is just that, opinion.  It will be challenged in the future, you can bet on it.


Not as long as people keep voting for Republicans so as to prevent the progressives from abolishing our freedom.




Wickerthing said:


> You are just another gun nut idiot who thinks it makes him taller or some shit.  It doesn't.  It makes you look like what you are, A child trying to look like a bad ass.  Again, you're not.   Now, piss off!


Freedom Haters sure don't like it when people embrace freedom.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 5, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> "Guns didn't murder anyone.  People commit murders, guns are just a tool and a very efficient one for the job."
> That illogical argument has been used extensively by the NRA and gun manufacturers to justify sales and ensure profits.


The fact that an argument is inconvenient for your position does not make that argument illogical.




Wickerthing said:


> But what they refuse to acknowledge is that in a real sense:  "People with guns kill other people."


People without guns kill people too. They just use different weapons, and then the victim is just as dead as if they were killed with a gun.




Wickerthing said:


> They try to whitewash that fact and spread the lie that availability of guns has nothing to do with gun deaths.


No lie.  Statistics show that gun availability has little impact on homicide rates.




Wickerthing said:


> The day that the gun lobby commits to help stop school shootings they may have some legitimacy.


The gun lobby is legitimate now.  That's why they always defeat you when you try to violate people's civil liberties.




Wickerthing said:


> And there are no laws regarding any buyer being made to prove that they are part of a regulated militia.


That's because such laws would be unconstitutional.




Wickerthing said:


> Gun people keep talking about how the thinking that went into the adoption of the second amendment cannot be applied to today in America.


We say nothing of the sort.




Wickerthing said:


> That's just the fuckin' point!  The founders could never have imagined the proliferation of guns and/or the resultant violence that would ensue in a nation so flooded with guns. They expected that American leaders would have that little problem taken care of as society and circumstances changed over time.


Actually lots of people had guns back then too.




Wickerthing said:


> Tell that to the parents of those killed by AR 15's in schools.


They'd be just as dead if they were killed with a bomb.




Wickerthing said:


> See, that's the problem.  You idiots won't even consider a ban on assault weapons or banana clips.


You're in the wrong century.  Assault weapons were all but banned some 88 years ago.

30 round rifle magazines are appropriate for self defense, so we do have the right to have those.




Wickerthing said:


> It's just justification after justification.


Not really.  If there is one thing that gun owners never do, it's justify ourselves to anyone.




Wickerthing said:


> The same people who will say that they understand that freedom of speech does not logically include yelling fire in a crowded theater, will put no limit on weapons of war


That's not true.  Weapons of war were all but banned some 88 years ago.




Wickerthing said:


> and argue that they are trying to take away your handguns.


It is wrong of progressives to try to outlaw handguns.




Wickerthing said:


> Somewhere there is a middle ground.


Not with progressives.  They want to violate our civil liberties, and that is the only thing that progressives care about.  The only thing that can be done is to oppose them relentlessly at every turn.




Wickerthing said:


> Why are you righties so fuckin' paranoid?  What a way to live.  THEY are coming for us.  They are coming for our guns!  They They They.  Why so uptight?  Not healthy.


No one is being paranoid.  We just are not going to let our rights be violated.




Wickerthing said:


> And how many students would be saved with knives and not guns being used when some nut blows a fuse?


Hard to know.  My guess: probably not very many.  Knife massacres can be pretty bloody.

And why assume that a non-gun massacre would be conducted with knives?  Maybe bombs would be used.




Wickerthing said:


> So now your argument is that we shouldn't worry about assault weapons in schools because it could have been bombs?  You have the nerve to call Liberals brain dead?  That's why it's so much fun to expose you knuckleheads for who and what you are.


We shouldn't worry about assault weapons in schools because assault weapons were all but banned some 88 years ago.

But yes.  Without guns, people who are bent on mayhem will consider bombs.




Wickerthing said:


> So we arm teachers with M16's?  THAT'S YOUR BRILLIANT IDEA?


No.  The same semi-auto-only AR-15s that the police use will do just fine in a teacher's hands.




Wickerthing said:


> Talked about the problems of the untrained and mentally ill and the ease at which they can have access to weapons of war.


Not very easy at all, considering the heavy restrictions placed on them some 88 years ago.

It's not very likely that any mentally ill person has had access to a weapon of war in the US for the past 88 years.




Wickerthing said:


> Talked about the proliferation of guns and it's relation to crime.


There is no relation at all according to statistics.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 5, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> One of the latest in the school shootings was done by a kid whose parents left it out and even encouraged their idiot son to practice with it.  Those parents would fall into the category of legal possessors of firearms.  Precisely why there needs to be stricter background checks


Since they were legal to own guns, stricter background checks would not have prevented them from having guns.




Wickerthing said:


> and there needs to be more control over who gets one and what their situation is and the fuckin' sheer numbers


Unconstitutional.  People have the right to have guns.




Wickerthing said:


> and types out there in circulation.


Unconstitutional.  If there is no justification for outlawing a type of weapon, then people have the right to have it.




Wickerthing said:


> There's a case where a little infringing could have saved some kid's lives.


Infringing is not allowed.




Wickerthing said:


> Well, I've got a full day ahead of me so I'll let you tough guys with your penis extensions (guns) dream about growing up.


Women always tell me that the reason why they cheat on their progressive husbands is because progressive men have such tiny penises.




Wickerthing said:


> Show me a one man militia.  Idiots.


Why do you keep talking about the militia?  The right to keep and bear arms is held by the people.




Wickerthing said:


> Again, show me a one man militia.


Again, why do you keep talking about the militia? The right to keep and bear arms is held by the people.




Wickerthing said:


> Why would the founders even include the terms Militia and Regulated if what was meant was that everyone can bear arms.


Because there are two parts of the Second Amendment.  One mandates that the militia be well regulated.  One mandates that the right of the people to keep and bear arms not be infringed.




Wickerthing said:


> And the term "being necessary to a free state." How does that square with an individual?


That is in the militia part of the amendment, not the people part of the amendment.




Wickerthing said:


> Well, isn't that special.  News for ya though Tex, no matter how many guns y'all have it won't make yer dick any bigger.


I wonder if the reason why progressive men have tiny penises is because having a tiny penis causes people to hold progressive viewpoints, or if holding progressive viewpoints causes people to have tiny penises.

It is probably a combination of both.  People with tiny penises develop progressive viewpoints, and then those progressive viewpoints cause their penises to get even smaller yet.




Wickerthing said:


> Just trying to keep up with you racists.


The only racists here are progressives.  I think it is their tiny penises that make progressives such racists.




Wickerthing said:


> Your lame attempts at insults don't work on me.  So, stow it.


That's pretty bold.  It was you who started talking about people's penises.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 5, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Typical BS about "They're trying to take away all of our guns!


No BS.  You have talked about outlawing 30 round magazines.




Wickerthing said:


> What we are saying is that there should be extensive vetting and training in the use and the safe storage of guns.


No, you say much more than that.




Wickerthing said:


> We are also saying that you don't need an assault weapon to ward off threats in your home.


Assault weapons were all but banned some 88 years ago.  People aren't talking about using assault weapons for self defense.  They mean using guns like the AR-15 for self defense.




Wickerthing said:


> And that the misuse and the care and control has to be strictly enforced.  Too often they wind up in the hands of lunatics or kids with severe mental problems.


Since assault weapons were restricted some 88 years ago, not one assault weapon has ever ended up in the hands of someone with mental problems.




Wickerthing said:


> To own a gun should come with very serious responsibility.


OK.




Wickerthing said:


> It's not an all or nothing thing.


It is when progressives insist on violating our civil liberties for no reason.




Wickerthing said:


> It's let's try to limit the astounding amount of guns out there.


Never!




Wickerthing said:


> There has to be some middle ground somewhere.


Not when progressives are involved.  It's always an all or nothing assault on our civil liberties whenever there are progressives.




Wickerthing said:


> If the matter was a settled issue and so clear, there wouldn't have been a 5-4 decision in 2008.


It was a split decision because progressives always want to violate the Constitution.

What the Second Amendment says and means is entirely clear.  Progressives just don't like what it says.




Wickerthing said:


> It will be revisited at some point and with the proliferation of guns, there may be a diffent take on it.  Somethings gotta give.


So in other words, everyone keep voting for Republicans (both pro-Trump and anti-Trump), because progressives mean to abolish our freedom and civil liberties if they ever get the power to do so.




Wickerthing said:


> When decisions that effect everyone are settled along party lines, they deserve to be revisited.  Just as it was in 08.


In other words, a vote for a progressive is a vote to abolish America's freedom.




Wickerthing said:


> But you fully support the second amendment as settled law of the land while touting states rights on abortion.  Very convenient.


One is in the Constitution.

One is not.

Guess which is which?




Wickerthing said:


> it was Justice Stephens I believe who wrote a dissenting opinion on the second amendment citing the terminology of "militia"   it was a close call and as I said, it will be revisited.   So, _upheld _doesn't mean permanence.


This is why it is important to always vote for Republicans no matter what.  Progressive candidates mean to enslave us.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 5, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> No BS.  You have talked about outlawing 30 round magazines.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Perfect example of the paranoia that Gun Nuts have.  Enslave you?  Attacks on the constitution? You're just another Trumper spreading nonsense.  The right created bogeymen and you sucked it up because you're an indoctrinated fool.  That shit is mental enslavement.  It's hateful, paranoid babies like you that become gun crazy and shoot up schools and deny that there's a problem.


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 5, 2022)

It is important for honest people to defend against the dishonest.
There are 2 groups of dishonest people.
One group is comprised of individuals who are thieves, extortionists, murderers, rapists, etc.
The other group is comprised of gangs who are the organized dictators, tyrants, aristocrats, etc.
We need weapons to defend from both, and since the organized gangs have the latest military weapons, so do we.
If you can not trust the general population with the latest military weapons, then forget a democratic republic, because then you certainly can NOT trust the police or military with them.
And preventing average people from access to the latest military weapons ensures a dictatorship in a short period of time.


----------



## Rigby5 (Apr 5, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Perfect example of the paranoia that Gun Nuts have.  Enslave you?  Attacks on the constitution? You're just another Trumper spreading nonsense.  The right created bogeymen and you sucked it up because you're an indoctrinated fool.  That shit is mental enslavement.  It's hateful, paranoid babies like you that become gun crazy and shoot up schools and deny that there's a problem.



I disagree.
The tendency towards corruption that leads to dictatorships is ever present.
All past governments have always all become corrupt, if they last long enough.

The constitution has already been attacked to the point it is almost useless.
For example, the BATF, DEA, FDA, etc. are entirely and totally illegal.
Those are supposed to all be totally under state control and not federal at all.
And the political process has been totally corrupted, with the 2016 election being between the 2 most unbelievably bad candidates of all history.

And it is foolish to bring up school shootings.
Obviously there will always be unstable individuals, but the solution is always to simply identify and treat them early on.
The idea of trying to secure any dangerous tech is absurd, and impossible.
A firearm can shoot a dozen at most, while if they were smart enough to use arson or explosives, they could easily murder hundreds, and your silly legislation would be useless.

Sorry, but you are the one who is being mislead by propaganda.
No one sane should want a government separate from the people and more powerful than the people, ever.
The founders did not even want a standing paid military, and instead preferred unpaid volunteers.
That likely is a much better idea.
Powerful governments are always the biggest threat we will ever have to defend against.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 5, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Trying is nothing.  Barack Obama actually pulled it off.  He stole Michigan's presidential primary in 2008.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A plethora of made up ca ca.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 5, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> I disagree.
> The tendency towards corruption that leads to dictatorships is ever present.
> All past governments have always all become corrupt, if they last long enough.
> 
> ...


Oh!  You disagree?  I'm devastated!  LOL


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 5, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> Selective breeding is NOT evolution.
> For selective breeding to be possible, the traits you select for have to already exist.
> Evolution requires mutations to create absolutely NEW traits.
> ...


Why keep making up shit. Just go any website of any of the 3400 ligit sources. Or, just look it up in any encyclopedia
*








						Misconceptions about evolution - Understanding Evolution
					

Unfortunately, many people have persistent misconceptions about evolution. Some are simple misunderstandings -- ideas that develop in the course of learning about evolution, possibly from school experiences and/or the media. Other misconceptions may stem from purposeful attempts to misrepresent...




					evolution.berkeley.edu
				




Selective breeding is evolution by human selection. *As nineteenth-century British naturalist Charles Darwin noted in Variation of Animals and Plants under Domestication, selective breeding may be methodical or unconscious.
Selective Breeding | Encyclopedia.com​encyclopedia.com


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 5, 2022)

"Obviously there will always be unstable individuals, but the solution is always to simply identify and treat them early on."

But just as obviously, there will always be those, like yourself, who will fail to identify and will instead idolize and promote those unstable morons.  You know, like your orange lunatic that you love so much.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 5, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> I don't care how many guns you have or how you pathetically justify them.
> You have no use for half your weapons other than ego to show your gun nut mates. Its a fact.


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry, and irrational fear.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 5, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> "Obviously there will always be unstable individuals, but the solution is always to simply identify and treat them early on."
> 
> But just as obviously, there will always be those, like yourself, who will fail to identify and will instead idolize and promote those unstable morons.  You know, like your orange lunatic that you love so much.


Misery loves company.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 5, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> And the political process has been totally corrupted, with the 2016 election being between the 2 most unbelievably bad candidates of all history.


That doesn’t make the election process corrupt. It makes the electorate ill informed and numb. It’s no secret how Trump got nominated . He loves the uneducated. He would say anything to anyone at anytime. He promised better healthcare to conservatives….he can’t deliver. Never could and as long  as we have “ suckers “ and supremacist  born every minute, we’ll have corrupt govt. Look at the criminality of the gop.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 5, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Perfect example of the paranoia that Gun Nuts have.


No paranoia.  Freedom Haters do everything that I accuse them of.




Wickerthing said:


> Enslave you?


Yes.  You are trying to abolish my freedom.




Wickerthing said:


> Attacks on the constitution?


Yes.  You have pledged to violate our Constitutional rights.




Wickerthing said:


> You're just another Trumper spreading nonsense.


Telling the truth about you is not nonsense.




Wickerthing said:


> The right created bogeymen and you sucked it up because you're an indoctrinated fool.


The right created nothing.  You are right here saying that you plan to try to violate our Constitutional rights.




Wickerthing said:


> It's hateful, paranoid babies like you that become gun crazy and shoot up schools and deny that there's a problem.


I do not deny that you are a problem.

That's why we have the NRA to protect us.  The NRA prevents you from causing the harm that you are so desperate to cause.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 5, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> A plethora of made up ca ca.


Hey, you're just like Putin now.  Way to go!

Putin says the very same thing about all his crimes in Chechnya and Ukraine.

I guess progressives really are wannabe Stalinists at heart just like people have always said.  You should see the way Stalin whitewashed all his crimes.  He even had people removed from photographs.  Progressives only wish that they could do that.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 5, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> Yes they do and not you or any private citizen has a use for them other than your ego.


----------



## Colin norris (Apr 6, 2022)

protectionist said:


> View attachment 626790
> 
> View attachment 626792
> 
> View attachment 626793 View attachment 626795


When was the we last time you or anyone else used your guns against those groups? Never.  Its ego son.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 6, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> When was the we last time you or anyone else used your guns against those groups? Never.  Its ego son.


2020.  And THOUSANDS of people could and SHOULD have shot those molotov cocktail throwing idiots to death. I guarantee if they came near my house again with those things, they would be dead in seconds.  Lucky for them, the last time, they took one look at my 12 gauge shotgun, and ran like greyhound racing dogs. The only reason they're still alive now, sonny.


----------



## Colin norris (Apr 6, 2022)

protectionist said:


> 2020.  And THOUSANDS of people could and SHOULD have shot those molotov cocktail throwing idiots to death. I guarantee if they came near my house again with those things, they would be dead in seconds.  Lucky for them, the last time, they took one look at my 12 gauge shotgun, and ran like greyhound racing dogs. The only reason they're still alive now, sonny.
> 
> View attachment 626802


Bullshit.  Youre all piss and wind. Very low intelligence. Just another wannabe tough guy rambo.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 6, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> Bullshit.  Youre all piss and wind. Very low intelligence. Just another wannabe tough guy rambo.


You're a LAUGHINGSTOCK in this forum, and everybody (except you) knows it.

And I'm not going to answer any more of your silly blabberings. You're just not worth it.


----------



## Colin norris (Apr 6, 2022)

protectionist said:


> You're a LAUGHINGSTOCK in this forum, and everybody (except you) knows it.


Yes I can imagine that. More to the point, you have not proven me wrong.  I suggest you are getting giggled at also. 


protectionist said:


> And I'm not going to answer any more of your silly blabberings. You're just not worth it.


Like the rest, your debating stops when your out of ammo. Youre time is too valuable to waste on me. 
You have more important things to discuss. Blah blah. Heard it all before. 
Come back when you have something to add except hatred.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 6, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> More to the point, you have not proven me wrong.


Sure he has.  He raised the example of the 2020 riots to show that you are wrong about people not defending themselves.




Colin norris said:


> Like the rest, your debating stops when your out of ammo.


It looks to me like the debate stopped when you started resorting to insults.  Some sort of comment about his intelligence among other things.

It was just a few posts above if you want to review the record.


----------



## Colin norris (Apr 6, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Sure he has.  He raised the example of the 2020 riots to show that you are wrong about people not defending



He did nothing of the sort. 
Grow up. 


Open Bolt said:


> It looks to me like the debate stopped when you started resorting to insults.


Your stupidity and ignorance deserves nothing better. I thought you were leaving? 


Open Bolt said:


> Some sort of comment about his intelligence among other things.


You keep think he is an idiot. He's simply not and us the potus. He beat a real idiot so let's not compare him with that ratbag fascist. 


Open Bolt said:


> It was just a few posts above if you want to review the record.


Yeah I will.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 6, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Hey, you're just like Putin now.  Way to go!
> 
> Putin says the very same thing about all his crimes in Chechnya and Ukraine.
> 
> I guess progressives really are wannabe Stalinists at heart just like people have always said.  You should see the way Stalin whitewashed all his crimes.  He even had people removed from photographs.  Progressives only wish that they could do that.


You want to see crimes, you need look no farther than Mar a Lago.  You know, the place where they found 15 boxes of documents that had top secret docs among them.  But that doesn't concern you?  LOL


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 6, 2022)

protectionist said:


> 2020.  And THOUSANDS of people could and SHOULD have shot those molotov cocktail throwing idiots to death. I guarantee if they came near my house again with those things, they would be dead in seconds.  Lucky for them, the last time, they took one look at my 12 gauge shotgun, and ran like greyhound racing dogs. The only reason they're still alive now, sonny.
> 
> View attachment 626802


The tough guy act is wearing thin.  You're probably just a coward with a John Wayne complex.  That's the case in the majority of Gun nuts.  Manliness is not measured by how many fuckin' guns you have.  WTF are you so angry about?  Could it have something to do with the fact that you are a silly wannabe?


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 6, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> No paranoia.  Freedom Haters do everything that I accuse them of.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just another bad ass in his own mind.  Be careful.  Don't shoot yourself when you're making love to your guns.  What a fuckin' way to live.  I feel sorry for you idiots crying out to convince everyone how tough you are.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 6, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> He did nothing of the sort.
> Grow up.
> Your stupidity and ignorance deserves nothing better. I thought you were leaving?
> You keep think he is an idiot. He's simply not and us the potus. He beat a real idiot so let's not compare him with that ratbag fascist.
> Yeah I will.


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry, and irrational fear.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 6, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> Yes I can imagine that. More to the point, you have not proven me wrong.  I suggest you are getting giggled at also.
> Like the rest, your debating stops when your out of ammo. Youre time is too valuable to waste on me.
> You have more important things to discuss. Blah blah. Heard it all before.
> Come back when you have something to add except hatred.


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry, and irrational fear.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 6, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry, and irrational fear.


Ignorance and bigotry?  That's rich coming from a disciple of the most ignorant and racist bozo ever to occupy any seat of government.  And irrational fear?  Again, rich coming from a lover of the biggest fear mongerer in history.  China will give us the virus, black lives don't matter, Mexicans are coming for your jobs and will eat your children, Bad people from shit hole countries will destroy America!  They are forming caravans to come to rape your wife!  They are bringing drugs and disease!  Democrats are trying to give you healthcare!!  Beware!  LOL  Get a fuckin' grip.  You've got your 14?  Shoot anyone who isn't pure white and Republican.  You're just another Gun Nut out to impress us all with your bolt action substitute for masculinity.  Yeah, we are all aghast at your power and intelligence.  Is that what you're going for?  Just like your orange clown of all clowns?  You're all hot air and bluster with a brain that Trump has been using for target practice.  Hopelessly indoctrinated by a guy who wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire.  Putin's soldier by proxy.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 6, 2022)

Open Bolt said:"  
Putin says the very same thing about all his crimes in Chechnya and Ukraine.

And you geniuses haven't noticed Trump's crimes because he's bold enough to do them right in your faces.  He's also confident that you are all too indoctrinated and stupid to notice, and he was right!


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 6, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Ignorance and bigotry?  That's rich coming from a disciple of the most ignorant and racist bozo ever to occupy any seat of government.


Disciple?  Lover?  Of Trump?
Can you cite one of my posts and copy/paste the text from it that backs up your assertion?

Or are you speaking from your own ignorance and bigotry?


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 6, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Ignorance and bigotry?  That's rich coming from a disciple of the most ignorant and racist bozo ever to occupy any seat of government.  And irrational fear?  Again, rich coming from a lover of the biggest fear mongerer in history.


I'd say he described you fairly.  After all, you present no facts or logic.  The only thing you have to support your position is childish name-calling.




Wickerthing said:


> You want to see crimes, you need look no farther than Mar a Lago.  You know, the place where they found 15 boxes of documents that had top secret docs among them.  But that doesn't concern you?  LOL


Your whining about Mr. Trump is boring.  Let me know when you want to talk guns.




Wickerthing said:


> The tough guy act is wearing thin.  You're probably just a coward with a John Wayne complex.  That's the case in the majority of Gun nuts.  Manliness is not measured by how many fuckin' guns you have.  WTF are you so angry about?  Could it have something to do with the fact that you are a silly wannabe?


The only angry people here are you Freedom Haters.




Wickerthing said:


> Just another bad ass in his own mind.  Be careful.  Don't shoot yourself when you're making love to your guns.  What a fuckin' way to live.  I feel sorry for you idiots crying out to convince everyone how tough you are.


The fact that you can't support your position with anything other than childish name-calling speaks to the bankruptcy of your position.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 6, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> He did nothing of the sort.


Yes he did.




Colin norris said:


> Your stupidity and ignorance deserves nothing better.


Your childish name-calling is a poor substitute for facts and logic.




Colin norris said:


> I thought you were leaving?


You probably shouldn't be trying to draw conclusions without help.




Colin norris said:


> You keep think he is an idiot.


Don't go falsely accusing me of your own name-calling.




Colin norris said:


> He's simply not


Thus you were wrong to call him one.  The fact that you can't support your position with facts or logic is no excuse for your childish name-calling.




Colin norris said:


> and us the potus.


I doubt it.

Hey protectionist are you the president?


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 6, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Disciple?  Lover?  Of Trump?
> Can you cite one of my posts and copy/paste the text from it that backs up your assertion?
> 
> Or are you speaking from your own ignorance and bigotry?


I see you have about a half dozen or so insulting lines that you use again and again.  That makes you a hypocrite.  You also take just about every position that the orange nutjob takes.  You make lame excuses about his praise for Putin while nearly 200,000 troops gather at the eastern border.  You call people out as insulting while you paste insults with a large percentage of your posts. Every one who disagrees with you and your orange Russian agent is ignorant, bigoted and so on.  You're a condescending, indoctrinated know it all who loves to dismiss others as beneath you.  In other words, you're an asshole.  And just like the majority of gun lovers, you're probably a cowardly bag of hot air.  All of your posturing about guns and your knowledge of them impresses nobody but your pathetic ass.  You think you're slick by talking in codes while doing what you call folks childish for doing.  Those who see what you are all about are just more honest and direct when they voice their opinions of  you.  They don't hide behind jargon and cut and paste thinly veiled, childish put downs.  You don't pack the gear and so you take it out on everyone around you.  I think you are exactly the kind of loose cannon that should not be allowed to own even a pea-shooter.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 6, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> I see you have about a half dozen or so insulting lines that you use again and again.


So...
You -can't- cite any of my posts and copy/paste the test that backs up your assertion.
Thus, you ARE speaking from your own ignorance and bigotry.
Just as I expected.
Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 6, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Yes he did.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Open bolt?  Is that supposed to be a tough guy name?  It sounds like baby talk.  It doesn't impress anyone.  Lose that shit, it's laughable and downright silly.  You and M14 should get a room.  Fuckin' wannabes.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 6, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> So...
> You -can't- cite any of my posts and copy/paste the test that backs up your assertion.
> Thus, you ARE speaking from your own ignorancy and bigotry.
> Just as I expected.
> Thanks for the clarification.


Like I said.  You are a silly goose.  Used another of your rubber stamp insults while asking me to show where you do that?  Now, That's fuckin' silly and it speaks to your ignorance.  BTW, there's no such word as ignorancy.  I see you tried to say what you usually cut and paste and couldn't get'er done.  Again, that's fuckin' funny.  Careful with that 14 man.  Remember, the skinny end goes toward the Democrat.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 6, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> I see you have about a half dozen or so insulting lines that you use again and again.


Since you never say anything intelligent and you only spout childish name-calling, why would he waste anything more than cut and paste on you?




Wickerthing said:


> Open bolt?  Is that supposed to be a tough guy name?


You wouldn't be able to comprehend it.  Best you just move on.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 6, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Like I said.  You are a silly goose.  Used another of your rubber stamp insults while asking me to show where you do that?


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 6, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Since you never say anything intelligent and you only spout childish name-calling, why would he waste anything more than cut and paste on you?
> 
> 
> 
> You wouldn't be able to comprehend it.  Best you just move on.


Yeah, I'm so intimidated by you.  Go kill something, tough guy.  You'll feel better, I promise.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 6, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


You've got nothing there, rifleman.  Just a silly honker.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 6, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> You've got nothing there, rifleman.  Just a silly honker.


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 6, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Hey, you're just like Putin now.  Way to go!
> 
> Putin says the very same thing about all his crimes in Chechnya and Ukraine.
> 
> I guess progressives really are wannabe Stalinists at heart just like people have always said.  You should see the way Stalin whitewashed all his crimes.  He even had people removed from photographs.  Progressives only wish that they could do that.


You must be looking in the mirror. The right doesn’t even support the nato efforts. You’re a strange dude. The  right under Trumps so called leadership, are fascist inclined, Putin sporting anti democratic butt boys.  Maybe you live  under a rock.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 6, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> That's why we have the NRA to protect us. The NRA prevents you from causing the harm that you are so desperate to cause.


Sure. The NRA restricts its leadership roles to felons. Great organization of bufferheads who only want what crime can offer them, more buyers for guns.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 6, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> You must be looking in the mirror.


No.  I don't try to whitewash history like you and Putin do and Stalin did.




Dagosa said:


> The right doesn’t even support the nato efforts. You’re a strange dude. The  right under Trumps so called leadership, are fascist inclined, Putin sporting anti democratic butt boys.  Maybe you live under a rock.


Anti-Trump whining is boring.




Dagosa said:


> Sure. The NRA restricts its leadership roles to felons. Great organization of bufferheads who only want what crime can offer them, more buyers for guns.


What we want from the NRA is protection from progressives who always try to violate our civil liberties for no reason.

And that's what we get.

I for one am quite happy with what the NRA provides to me.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 6, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Anti-Trump whining is boring.


So you deny that Trump was a Putin butt boy ?


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 6, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> So you deny that Trump was a Putin butt boy ?


I just don't care if he was or wasn't.

Or if he (present tense) is or isn't.

I'm happy with Mr. Trump's support for the Second Amendment.  That is the only issue that I care about.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 6, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I just don't care if he was or wasn't.
> 
> Or if he (present tense) is or isn't.
> 
> I'm happy with Mr. Trump's support for the Second Amendment.  That is the only issue that I care about.


Wow, you don’t care about anything else. You think supporting a fascist regime will support the right to bear arms ? Ha ha. Ever look at the gun rights in fascist regimes that Trump supported ? Amazing. I don’t think you know that the second amendment is not absolute and is subject to regulation. You do get that there is not one square inch of territory in the US that doesn’t have firearm regs. They’re just fuking weak  and don’t apply to crimInals. You guys on the right have no clue. You support  criminals  possessing and
owning guns.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 6, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Wow, you don’t care about anything else.


Well, I also care about Barack Obama being allowed to steal Michigan's primary in 2008.

Before that day I would always vote for pro-gun Democrats, even against a Republican that was even more pro-gun.  I wanted to try to build up a pro-gun wing in the Democratic Party.

Now I just vote for every Republican candidate in every race in every general election.

I even look up which judicial candidates are Republicans so I can vote for Republican judges.  (In Michigan judicial elections are party-neutral on the ballot.)




Dagosa said:


> You think supporting a fascist regime will support the right to bear arms ? Ha ha. Ever look at the gun rights in fascist regimes that Trump supported ? Amazing. I don’t think you know that the second amendment is not absolute


The Second Amendment is very much absolute.  If a law contradicts the Second Amendment, that law is unconstitutional.




Dagosa said:


> and is subject to regulation.


Regulations are allowed only if they don't violate the Second Amendment.

Regulations that violate the Second Amendment are unconstitutional.




Dagosa said:


> You do get that there is not one square inch of territory in the US that doesn’t have firearm regs. They’re just fuking weak  and don’t apply to crimInals. You guys on the right have no clue. You support  criminals  possessing and owning guns.


Meh.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 6, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I just don't care if he was or wasn't.
> 
> Or if he (present tense) is or isn't.
> 
> I'm happy with Mr. Trump's support for the Second Amendment.  That is the only issue that I care about.


Trump made a big spectacle of promising the victims of the Parkland shooter that "I'm not afraid of the NRA!"  The rest of you might be, but not me!!"  But like everything he does, it was a code to the NRA to cough up some dough.  Then all of a sudden, it was Parkland what??  What students?  Everything Trump did was transactional.  "What's in it for me?"  After then he didn't bring up the subject again.  So much for kids lives.  LOL   He doesn't care one whit about some document that he's never read.  Constitution, Bible?  Just political props to enrich himself.  Emoluments clause?  "What's that?"  "That doesn't apply to me."  Subpoenas?  Testimony?  "Fuck that!  Grab the loot and worry about nothing!"  Classified Documents? "They might have incriminating shit about me.  I'll just take them home.  National security?  Fuck that!  Secret meetings with the enemy with no record of what is said?  "Telling two Russian spies all about how I fired the guy who was looking into it and assuring them that "he won't be a problem anymore!!? Gotta protect master Putin."  Got a good laugh about that one!"   "Israeli positions in Syria?  Sure, glad to share!"  And, you won't have any problems there anymore!  I'll clear the way for Vlad to slaughter our allies.  Be sure to tell our friend, Urdogan that for just a few easy payments he can get the same deal!" And that pesky problem of NATO spoiling your fun of taking Ukraine, I've got those assholes unsure of what I'll do and I've sowed division there just like I did here in this Bank, Ah! I mean country."  "Will we be found out?  Fuck no! these Americans would send me a hooker if they thought I wanted one.  Nothing to worry about on that front!"  "And, Vlad ol' buddy, How's that Trump tower Moscow thing coming along?  Those stupid voters will believe any fuckin' thing I say."  "They're starting to call me the Teflon Don!"  What's Teflon?"


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 6, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Trump made a big spectacle of promising the victims of the Parkland shooter that "I'm not afraid of the NRA!"  The rest of you might be, but not me!!"


Yes, but he was lying about being opposed to the NRA.




Wickerthing said:


> But like everything he does, it was a code to the NRA to cough up some dough.  Then all of a sudden, it was Parkland what??  What students?  Everything Trump did was transactional.  "What's in it for me?"  After then he didn't bring up the subject again.  So much for kids lives.


No dough was necessary.  Politicians that support the NRA sometimes lie about that support in order to fool progressives into piping down and not squawking so loudly.




Wickerthing said:


> LOL   He doesn't care one whit about some document that he's never read.  Constitution, Bible?  Just political props to enrich himself.


We don't require him to care.  So long as he supports our position that is fine.




Wickerthing said:


> Emoluments clause?  "What's that?"  "That doesn't apply to me."  Subpoenas?  Testimony?  "Fuck that!  Grab the loot and worry about nothing!"  Classified Documents? "They might have incriminating shit about me.  I'll just take them home.  National security?  Fuck that!  Secret meetings with the enemy with no record of what is said?  "Telling two Russian spies all about how I fired the guy who was looking into it and assuring them that "he won't be a problem anymore!!? Gotta protect master Putin."  Got a good laugh about that one!"   "Israeli positions in Syria?  Sure, glad to share!"  And, you won't have any problems there anymore!  I'll clear the way for Vlad to slaughter our allies.  Be sure to tell our friend, Urdogan that for just a few easy payments he can get the same deal!" And that pesky problem of NATO spoiling your fun of taking Ukraine, I've got those assholes unsure of what I'll do and I've sowed division there just like I did here in this Bank, Ah! I mean country."  "Will we be found out?  Fuck no! these Americans would send me a hooker if they thought I wanted one.  Nothing to worry about on that front!"  "And, Vlad ol' buddy, How's that Trump tower Moscow thing coming along?  Those stupid voters will believe any fuckin' thing I say."  "They're starting to call me the Teflon Don!"  What's Teflon?"


Good grief.  So what?


----------



## Colin norris (Apr 6, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Yes he did.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You arrogant republican godbotherers deserve nothing but insults. 
BTW, he is the president and there's nothing will ever change that. 



It would be of no benefit to a parasitic intellectual disease to live in you.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 6, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> You arrogant republican godbotherers deserve nothing but insults.
> BTW, he is the president and there's nothing will ever change that.
> It would be of no benefit to a parasitic intellectual disease to live in you.


The fact that you can't use facts or logic but can only spew insults is evidence of the bankruptcy of your position.

Incidentally, I hate to confuse you but I'm not a Republican.  Looking closely at my avatar might help you figure it out.


----------



## Colin norris (Apr 6, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> The fact that you can't use facts or logic but can only spew insults is evidence of the bankruptcy of your position.
> 
> Incidentally, I hate to confuse you but I'm not a Republican.


I don't care if you are a communist.  You are an ignorant arrogant pig.  Is that clear dickhead.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 6, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> I don't care if you are a communist.  You are an ignorant arrogant pig.  Is that clear dickhead.


Hardly ignorant.  I provide factual and logical arguments.  I don't rely on childish name-calling like you do.


----------



## Colin norris (Apr 6, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Hardly ignorant.  I provide factual and logical arguments.  I don't rely on childish name-calling like you do.


Everyone is ignorant to something. You ignorant to the fact you are ignorant.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 6, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Yes, but he was lying about being opposed to the NRA.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Amazing.  You found a way to shift the blame onto progressives!  The point is that you believe he cares about the second amendment.  He was for sale.  Every moment that he putrefied the office he cared about absolutely nothing but how to rake in the loot.   If the money was right he would have scrapped that amendment or the entire Constitution in a heartbeat.   So what?  You proclaim everyone else as being ignorant yet you turn a blind eye just so long as you can still stockpile your arsenal and play John Wayne?  You remind everyone of what true ignorance looks like with every post.    If it was anyone else, I'd expect you're just a few days late for  April fool's day but it's you so I must factor that in.  Good luck in your pursuit of gathering enough weapons to satisfy your illusions of being a bad ass.  What's next for you?  Squirrel hunting with a 50 Cal.?  You're not a bad ass but you ARE scary.  It's a disturbing thought to visualize a nutcase having a gun obsession to the exclusion of common sense.    Yeah, Good Grief is right Charlie.  Open Bolt with an open skull.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 6, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> Everyone is ignorant to something. You ignorant to the fact you are ignorant.


I hope his nonsense is a game as silly as he is but if he's not just a put-on then gun control can't come soon enough.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 6, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> The fact that you can't use facts or logic but can only spew insults is evidence of the bankruptcy of your position.
> 
> Incidentally, I hate to confuse you but I'm not a Republican.  Looking closely at my avatar might help you figure it out.


Do the world a favor.  Register as a Republican so you won't have to keep being a jerk.  As a Democrat, I hope you take a kennel full of blue doggies with ya.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 6, 2022)

In reality, what he claims as a centrist looks a shit load like a cult member.  That's the mark of a coward.  Claim to sit on the fence while trying not to be identified as what he is.  Then he avoids a certain amount of conflict and he gets to continue to worship at the church of the Orange Idol.   He is a Trump clone, dressed as a wolf that is dressed as a sheep that is dressed as Big Blue.  Even he can't figure out what the hell he is.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 6, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> You arrogant republican godbotherers deserve nothing but insults.
> BTW, he is the president and there's nothing will ever change that.
> It would be of no benefit to a parasitic intellectual disease to live in you.


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 6, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Good luck in your pursuit of gathering enough weapons to satisfy your illusions of being a bad ass.  What's next for you?  Squirrel hunting with a 50 Cal.?  You're not a bad ass but you ARE scary.  It's a disturbing thought to visualize a nutcase having a gun obsession to the exclusion of common sense.    Yeah, Good Grief is right Charlie.  Open Bolt with an open skull.


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 6, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> Everyone is ignorant to something.


True.




Colin norris said:


> You ignorant to the fact you are ignorant.


Wrong.  I know exactly how much I know.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 6, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Amazing.  You found a way to shift the blame onto progressives!


There is no blame to shift in the first place.




Wickerthing said:


> The point is that you believe he cares about the second amendment.


The point is wrong.




Wickerthing said:


> He was for sale.


And we bought him.  He was well worth the resources that we spent on him.




Wickerthing said:


> You proclaim everyone else as being ignorant


No, just the people who resort to childish name-calling instead of using facts and logic.




Wickerthing said:


> yet you turn a blind eye just so long as you can still stockpile your arsenal


Of course.




Wickerthing said:


> and play John Wayne?


Reliance on bigoted stereotypes shows the weakness of your position.




Wickerthing said:


> You remind everyone of what true ignorance looks like with every post.


You are the one who relies on childish name-calling because he can't support his position with facts and logic.




Wickerthing said:


> If it was anyone else, I'd expect you're just a few days late for April fool's day but it's you so I must factor that in.


More name-calling because you have no facts or logic to support your position.




Wickerthing said:


> It's a disturbing thought to visualize a nutcase having a gun obsession to the exclusion of common sense.


It is funny how every time someone opposes civil liberties, they always invoke some variation of "common sense".




Wickerthing said:


> I hope his nonsense is a game as silly as he is but if he's not just a put-on then gun control can't come soon enough.


Gun control isn't coming.  The NRA says no.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 7, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> There is no blame to shift in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You have some very strange heroes.  You call yourself a conservative but it's obvious that you are just another cult member genuflecting to a fool on the hill.   But his days are numbered.  If he doesn't self- destruct (which he is in the process of unraveling as we speak) the walls that he likes so much will close in on him and many of his rogue's gallery of anti democracy scoundrels.  Someday when you are deprogrammed you might realize the damage he has done to our country.  This country can't survive four more days with him in office, let alone 4 years.  It still amazes that someone seemingly intelligent can buy into that traitorous lunatic and his perverted "policies"  He is the most childlike adult I've ever seen.  He can't even tell the truth about the minute stuff.  The best thing that could happen is if he was to board one of his invisible jets and nuke the eye of the next hurricane.  The resultant pollution would have a considerable half-life but the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.  He makes Nixon and Andrew Johnson look like the stable geniuses that he likes to describe himself as.  And what a burden of the soul it will be for anyone who was naive enough and weak minded enough to buy into his madness.   Folks like you.  There's one of those FACTS that you like.  But maybe it'll be easier than I thought to live it down because you have a lot in common.  You both play the role of Alpha male while you are Omega men. I just hope for your sake that your guns give you solace and the pleasure of killing defenseless animals to bolster your perceived image of yourself.  I know what you are but I can't help ya when it's time for a little clarity.  In the meantime, I've got an M79 Grenade launcher that I could let go cheap.  Maybe you could bag one of those big orange Yetis.  Best of luck, Comrade.  Fuckin' sucker.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 7, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> You must be looking in the mirror. The right doesn’t even support the nato efforts. You’re a strange dude. The  right under Trumps so called leadership, are fascist inclined, Putin sporting anti democratic butt boys.  Maybe you live  under a rock.


This is a good example of liberal deranged "thinking".  Wow.  People in mental institutions aren't this far out.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 7, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> You have some very strange heroes.  You call yourself a conservative but it's obvious that you are just another cult member genuflecting to a fool on the hill.   But his days are numbered.  If he doesn't self- destruct (which he is in the process of unraveling as we speak) the walls that he likes so much will close in on him and many of his rogue's gallery of anti democracy scoundrels.  Someday when you are deprogrammed you might realize the damage he has done to our country.  This country can't survive four more days with him in office, let alone 4 years.  It still amazes that someone seemingly intelligent can buy into that traitorous lunatic and his perverted "policies"  He is the most childlike adult I've ever seen.  He can't even tell the truth about the minute stuff.  The best thing that could happen is if he was to board one of his invisible jets and nuke the eye of the next hurricane.  The resultant pollution would have a considerable half-life but the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.  He makes Nixon and Andrew Johnson look like the stable geniuses that he likes to describe himself as.  And what a burden of the soul it will be for anyone who was naive enough and weak minded enough to buy into his madness.   Folks like you.  There's one of those FACTS that you like.  But maybe it'll be easier than I thought to live it down because you have a lot in common.  You both play the role of Alpha male while you are Omega men. I just hope for your sake that your guns give you solace and the pleasure of killing defenseless animals to bolster your perceived image of yourself.  I know what you are but I can't help ya when it's time for a little clarity.  In the meantime, I've got an M79 Grenade launcher that I could let go cheap.  Maybe you could bag one of those big orange Yetis.  Best of luck, Comrade.  Fuckin' sucker.


You mean there are still some people here reading you posts ?  Odd.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 7, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> You want to see crimes, you need look no farther than Mar a Lago.  You know, the place where they found 15 boxes of documents that had top secret docs among them.  But that doesn't concern you?  LOL


Doesn't concern at all. There isn't a shred of evidence that Trump had one iota of criminal intent in having those documents in his house.  They could have been shuffled there in a large pile of papers, by other people hired to move things.  Trump could have not even been aware they were in his house.

If anyone looks to claim that he knew they were there, and thinks they have some PROOF of that, let's hear it.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 7, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Perfect example of the paranoia that Gun Nuts have.  Enslave you?  Attacks on the constitution? You're just another Trumper spreading nonsense.  The right created bogeymen and you sucked it up because you're an indoctrinated fool.  That shit is mental enslavement.  It's hateful, paranoid babies like you that become gun crazy and shoot up schools and deny that there's a problem.


It's anti-gun nuts who disarm teachers and school personnel, thereby inviting those school shooters to go there and kill people.  Every US mass shooting in recent years has been in a gun-free zone.  Green light for mass shooters.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 7, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Hardly ignorant.  I provide factual and logical arguments.  I don't rely on childish name-calling like you do.


What childish name calling PooPoo head?


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 7, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Doesn't concern at all. There isn't a shred of evidence that Trump had one iota of criminal intent in having those documents in his house.  They could have been shuffled there in a large pile of papers, by other people hired to move things.  Trump could have not even been aware they were in his house.
> 
> If anyone looks to claim that he knew they were there, and thinks they have some PROOF of that, let's hear it.


LOL.  To have classified docs in his home, 15 boxes of them to be exact.  Shows that he is either a spy or a moron.  Maybe a combination of the two.  Who knows what someone could have seen or copied or relayed to someone who could weaponize that information.  You ding dongs seem to have a single purpose in life.  To suck up to and protect that nutjob no matter how outrageous his conduct.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 7, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> Yes I can imagine that. More to the point, you have not proven me wrong.  I suggest you are getting giggled at also.
> 
> Like the rest, your debating stops when your out of ammo. Youre time is too valuable to waste on me.
> You have more important things to discuss. Blah blah. Heard it all before.
> Come back when you have something to add except hatred.


I've proven you wrong in this forum more times than I can count.  You are the clown of USMB.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 7, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> LOL.  To have classified docs in his home, 15 boxes of them to be exact.  Shows that he is either a spy or a moron.  Maybe a combination of the two.  Who knows what someone could have seen or copied or relayed to someone who could weaponize that information.  You ding dongs seem to have a single purpose in life.  To suck up to and protect that nutjob no matter how outrageous his conduct.


Another example of a post being refuted by the post that it quoted. Height of stupidity.

No need to ridicule this guy. He's doing the job.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 7, 2022)

protectionist said:


> This is a good example of liberal deranged "thinking".  Wow.  People in mental institutions aren't this far out.


You are the victim of BDS and CSS as well.  But take heart because there is a cure.  Simply keep your previously unusable eyes open and your previously blocked ears open to gather info instead of just sticking to his ass with your carp lips and never having to do a thing but worship Jesus Trump. It's not a big difficult chore to document his lunacy.  It's there and always was there for the un-indoctrinated among us.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 7, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Another example of a post being refuted by the post that it quoted. Height of stupidity.
> 
> No need to ridicule this guy. He's doing the job.


What exactly is the height of stupidity?  How tall are you?


----------



## protectionist (Apr 7, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> What exactly is the height of stupidity?


Post 1,183.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 7, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> You are the victim of BDS and CSS as well.  But take heart because there is a cure.  Simply keep your previously unusable eyes open and your previously blocked ears open to gather info instead of just sticking to his ass with your carp lips and never having to do a thing but worship Jesus Trump. It's not a big difficult chore to document his lunacy.  It's there and always was there for the un-indoctrinated among us.


But you can't (and don't) present what you think an is example of that. 

Whenever you want to find out how ignorant you (and other liberals) are, feel free to take one of my "Quiz for Liberals" quizzes.  Open to all information-deprived victims of liberal OMISSION media.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 7, 2022)

protectionist said:


> It's anti-gun nuts who disarm teachers and school personnel, thereby inviting those school shooters to go there and kill people.  Every US mass shooting in recent years has been in a gun-free zone.  Green light for mass shooters.


And you idiots focus solely on the aftermath of those shootings and how to protect the NRA and the Gun MFGRS from accountability.  A smart approach is to look at the problem and ways to alleviate it by cracking down on availability, gun sales, background checks that are in depth, stiffening sentences for unregistered guns and to mandate training in the proper use and storage of those guns.  And yes!  Holding the gun lobby and the gun makers to account for carelessness.  It's not some big mysterious thing to acknowledge that the country with the largest sheer numbers of guns also has the crime rates to match.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 7, 2022)

protectionist said:


> But you can't (and don't) present what you think an is example of that.
> 
> Whenever you want to find out how ignorant you (and other liberals) are, feel free to take one of my "Quiz for Liberals" quizzes.  Open to all information-deprived victims of liberal OMISSION media.


Hey!  You moron!  I've outlined Trump's lunacy and his bizarre behavior over and over.  The fact that you missed that is a prime example of willfull ignorance and voluntary deafness and blindness.  Just now you are excusing his possession of classified material.  I'll bet you were one of the loudest voices about the Hillary emails though.  LOL   HYPOCRISY, THY NAME IS REPUBLICAN.  What a silly goose you are.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 7, 2022)

protectionist said:


> It's anti-gun nuts who disarm teachers and school personnel, thereby inviting those school shooters to go there and kill people.  Every US mass shooting in recent years has been in a gun-free zone.  Green light for mass shooters.


No kidding.  You wouldn't believe the histrionics that I hear from the Freedom Haters whenever I suggest letting teachers keep an AR-15 locked in a safe in their classroom.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 7, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> And you idiots focus solely on the aftermath of those shootings and how to protect the NRA and the Gun MFGRS from accountability.  A smart approach is to look at the problem and ways to alleviate it by cracking down on availability, gun sales, background checks that are in depth, stiffening sentences for unregistered guns and to mandate training in the proper use and storage of those guns.  And yes!  Holding the gun lobby and the gun makers to account for carelessness.  It's not some big mysterious thing to acknowledge that the country with the largest sheer numbers of guns also has the crime rates to match.


IGNORANT Democrats like this guy are totally unaware that while Democrats preach sanctimonioulsy about _"availability, gun sales, background checks that are in depth," _it was the complete rejection of these ideas by Democrats, that allowed Nicolas Cruz, to bypass a background check on him, made guns available to him, and allowed the gun sales to him of the guns that l=killed 14 people in the Parkland massacre.

Screwball Democrats, fanatical about protection minority race kids from going to jail, deliberaltely kept their criminal records hidden in the infamous "Promise Program"

Democrats should practice what they preach, instead of doing exactly the opposite and they need to stop ignoring what I said in Post # 1,181, as we clearly see in Post # 1,190.  

_"It's not some big mysterious thing to acknowledge that" "Every US mass shooting in recent years has been in a gun-free zone."   😐 _


----------



## protectionist (Apr 7, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Hey!  You moron!  I've outlined Trump's lunacy and his bizarre behavior over and over.  The fact that you missed that is a prime example of willfull ignorance and voluntary deafness and blindness.  Just now you are excusing his possession of classified material.  I'll bet you were one of the loudest voices about the Hillary emails though.  LOL   HYPOCRISY, THY NAME IS REPUBLICAN.  What a silly goose you are.


More inability to cite what the clown considers _"lunacy and bizarre behavior".  _Door is open, Mr DODGE, anytime you want to attempt to back up your hot air. Just be aware that what liberals consider lunacy  bizarre behavior,conservatives consider to be refreshing common sense.

.. and repair of the lunacy and bizarre behavior of liberals - ex. employing racial/gender discrimination in appointing a kiddie porn supporter to the SCOTUS, allowing men posing as women, to compete with women in sports, abandoning thousands of Americans in Afghanistan, to be slaughtered by Taliban barbarians,....just to name a few.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 7, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> No kidding.  You wouldn't believe the histrionics that I hear from the Freedom Haters whenever I suggest letting teachers keep an AR-15 locked in a safe in their classroom.


When it comes to loony liberals, nothing surprises me anymore. They will say anything.


----------



## Colin norris (Apr 7, 2022)

protectionist said:


> I've proven you wrong in this forum more times than I can count.  You are the clown of USMB.


You could be right but this time I am right. 
A clown I could be but coming from you, I suspect you are ignorant and low iq.


----------



## Colin norris (Apr 7, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> True.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  I know exactly how much I know.


You will never be educated until you realise how much you don't know. 
I know you know nothing. You are a gun nut and low iq is the primary qualification.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 7, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> I know you know nothing. You are a gun nut and low iq is the primary qualification.


I think that's my cue to put you on ignore.  When stupid people start falsely accusing other people of stupidity there really is no more reason to pay attention to them.

EDIT:  Oh cool.  I see that this site blocks quotes from people who are on ignore.  Not all sites do that.


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Apr 7, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Assault weapons were all but banned 88 years ago.
> Time to invoke the Twenty-fifth Amendment.  Traitor Joe doesn't even know what century it is.
> Traitor Joe will have to get used to being disappointed.  Americans will not allow him to violate their civil liberties.



Joe?

It's so sad to see how many cunservatives still really believe Joe is in charge.   smh


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Apr 7, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> You will never be educated until you realise how much you don't know.
> I know you know nothing. You are a gun nut and low iq is the primary qualification.



What the fuk is a "Gun Nut" ?

If you mean someone who gets joy out of using a gun to kill something ...anything they can

Well.....ok.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 7, 2022)

protectionist said:


> When it comes to loony liberals, nothing surprises me anymore. They will say anything.


I actually refuse to call them liberals.  Liberalism used to mean support for civil liberties before the left corrupted the term.

I refer to them as either leftists or progressives.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 7, 2022)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> Joe?
> It's so sad to see how many cunservatives still really believe Joe is in charge.   smh


I neither know nor care if Traitor Joe is really in charge.  His gun control proposals are going to be blocked either way.


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Apr 7, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> And you idiots focus solely on the aftermath of those shootings and how to protect the NRA and the Gun MFGRS from accountability.  A smart approach is to look at the problem and ways to alleviate it by cracking down on availability, gun sales, background checks that are in depth, stiffening sentences for unregistered guns and to mandate training in the proper use and storage of those guns.  And yes!  Holding the gun lobby and the gun makers to account for carelessness.  It's not some big mysterious thing to acknowledge that the country with the largest sheer numbers of guns also has the crime rates to match.



Yep, you're a certified moron.

You have no clue the actual cause of "gun" violence do you?

Hint: When America was truly CONSERVATIVE, teens carried rifles to school in their pick up trucks openly visible.  No one stole them or used them.
Amazingly, there were no epidemic of mass shootings at schools or in public like in today's Leftist America..

Fast forward to the new and improved Liberal / Leftist America......gun rights are restricted to the point the 2A is almost meaningless and yet gun violence is at an all time high.

Adding 2 and 2 is not really higher math.
You must be just another Marxist / Socialist buffoon.


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Apr 7, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I neither know nor care if Traitor Joe is really in charge.  His gun control proposals are going to be blocked either way.



Thanks for the confession....you're right....You don't know......about a LOT of things.

And btw..they are not his proposals.  They are Michael Bloombergs, George Soro's and those of a host of other Marxists who are "better" than you.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 7, 2022)

protectionist said:


> More inability to cite what the clown considers _"lunacy and bizarre behavior".  _Door is open, Mr DODGE, anytime you want to attempt to back up your hot air. Just be aware that what liberals consider lunacy  bizarre behavior,conservatives consider to be refreshing common sense.
> 
> .. and repair of the lunacy and bizarre behavior of liberals - ex. employing racial/gender discrimination in appointing a kiddie porn supporter to the SCOTUS, allowing men posing as women, to compete with women in sports, abandoning thousands of Americans in Afghanistan, to be slaughtered by Taliban barbarians,....just to name a few.


And therein lies the problem.  To you sheep, lunacy and bizarre behavior has become acceptable.  Truth is lies, lies are truth.  Laws were made to be broken and the bad guys have become the good guys.  And talking points became sage wisdom.  Kiddie porn supporter?  LOL  You got that one from Marjorie Trailer Queen via QAnon. Have you idiots found that pizza parlor basement yet?  Sick fucks.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 7, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> You have some very strange heroes.  You call yourself a conservative but it's obvious that you are just another cult member genuflecting to a fool on the hill.


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 7, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> And therein lies the problem.  To you sheep, lunacy and bizarre behavior has become acceptable


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 7, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> And you idiots focus solely on the aftermath of those shootings and how to protect the NRA and the Gun MFGRS from accountability.


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 7, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> You will never be educated until you realise how much you don't know.
> I know you know nothing. You are a gun nut and low iq is the primary qualification.


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 7, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I neither know nor care if Traitor Joe is really in charge.  His gun control proposals are going to be blocked either way.


So now it's Traitor Joe?  LOL  Yeah, I guess that was Biden cozying up to Putin and his spies in the Oval office, right?  And it was Joe who allowed the slaughter of our allies in Syria.  You gun nuts live in another dimension because it sure as hell isn't the one that the sane folks reside in.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 7, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> You gun nuts live in another dimension because it sure as hell isn't the one that the sane folks reside in.


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


----------



## Failzero (Apr 7, 2022)

When they came for the "Assault Rifles" the Semi Auto Handguns did nothing


----------



## Failzero (Apr 7, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> So now it's Traitor Joe?  LOL  Yeah, I guess that was Biden cozying up to Putin and his spies in the Oval office, right?  And it was Joe who allowed the slaughter of our allies in Syria.  You gun nuts live in another dimension because it sure as hell isn't the one that the sane folks reside in.


Imagine another Dimension ( One with Open Borders allowing Millions of Folks (Cartel Henchmen & their Families , Islamists with two chips on their shoulders , Turd World Criminals ( eMe/MS13 ... to swarm into the country and cause a crimewave (In the Crime is not a crime atmosphere here now ) that overwhelms the system ( Cloward / Piven )


----------



## protectionist (Apr 7, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> You could be right but this time I am right.
> A clown I could be but coming from you, I suspect you are ignorant and low iq.


All that is necessnnThensry for you to find out how many light years I am ahead of you, is for you to take one of my quizzes for liberals.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 7, 2022)

Failzero said:


> Imagine another Dimension ( One with Open Borders allowing Millions of Folks (Cartel Henchmen & their Families , Islamists with two chips on their shoulders , Turd World Criminals ( eMe/MS13 ... to swarm into the country and cause a crimewave (In the Crime is not a crime atmosphere here now ) that overwhelms the system ( Cloward / Piven )


And Mr. Serling, where do you suppose Americans originate from other than natives?  Nothing like being a drama queen.  LOL  You've gotta consider stopping the spread of Trump poison.  It hurts the country.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 7, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


You're welcome!


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 7, 2022)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> Yep, you're a certified moron.
> 
> You have no clue the actual cause of "gun" violence do you?
> 
> ...


Sorry to piss on your redneck dreams but not everyone wants to see pickup trucks with guns in the window.  What causes gun violence?  Give me a minute..... Hmmmm  Oh yeah.... Guns?  And couple that with the division and hatred that you Trumpers have sown and you have the perfect environment for meaningless, racist clashes.  Not seeing many liberals out shooting up schools or killing people based on color.  Those separative and cruel words that ignite violence come from the right.    Silly goose.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 7, 2022)

protectionist said:


> All that is necessnnThensry for you to find out how many light years I am ahead of you, is for you to take one of my quizzes for liberals.


You question the intellect of others while you speak in tongues?   necessnnThensry?  Yeah, you are clearly  a savant.  LOL


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 7, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


You're welcome.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 7, 2022)

Failzero said:


> When they came for the "Assault Rifles" the Semi Auto Handguns did nothing


How poetic!  Sniff sniff......


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 7, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I actually refuse to call them liberals.  Liberalism used to mean support for civil liberties before the left corrupted the term.
> 
> I refer to them as either leftists or progressives.


Well!  Isn't that special.  And conservatism has become a child's game of Follow the Facist.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 7, 2022)

protectionist said:


> This is a good example of liberal deranged "thinking".  Wow.  People in mental institutions aren't this far out.


The QAnon right is as deranged as you can get. Got any baby cannibal stories ?


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 7, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Well, I also care about Barack Obama being allowed to steal Michigan's primary in 2008.
> 
> Before that day I would always vote for pro-gun Democrats, even against a Republican that was even more pro-gun.  I wanted to try to build up a pro-gun wing in the Democratic Party.
> 
> ...


Funny, it’s you guys who lead the Dems in admin felony prosecutions and indictments. The only organized fraud during the last elections were REPUNANTS. Talk about stealing elections……you’ve trying for years.
There have been 317 criminal indictments under three recent Republican presidents and only three indictments under three recent Democratic presidents.


----------



## Colin norris (Apr 7, 2022)

protectionist said:


> All that is necessnnThensry for you to find out how many light years I am ahead of you, is for you to take one of my quizzes for liberals.


Of course your smarter than me. Thats why youvr got an arsenal of guns you never use. 
Youre so smart you should grease your arse and slip into the next world , preferanle light years away.


----------



## Failzero (Apr 7, 2022)

The guy who shot up the Republican Congressional baseball practice was a Liberal ( and most of the mass/ High profile  shootings of the last 20 years were  “ When Liberals Attack “ incidents . ( The Dazzling Urbanite Knucklehead BLM guy who ambushed & killed all the Dallas cops ) ( The Democrat Brother Ex Cop who had most of the Los Angeles Region in a panic until they cornered him in the mountains of big bear/ Arrowhead )


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 7, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Sorry to piss on your redneck dreams but not everyone wants to see pickup trucks with guns in the window.  What causes gun violence?  Give me a minute..... Hmmmm  Oh yeah.... Guns?


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 7, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> Of course your smarter than me. Thats why youvr got an arsenal of guns you never use.
> Youre so smart you should grease your arse and slip into the next world , preferanle light years away.


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 7, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Funny, it’s you guys who lead the Dems in admin felony prosecutions and indictments.


I am not aware of any statistics showing that more conservative Democrats are prosecuted than progressive Democrats.

But given the way that progressives abuse the law to conduct witch hunts against people who don't share in their demented ideology, it wouldn't surprise me.

Look at all the witch hunts that progressives wage against Republicans.




Dagosa said:


> The only organized fraud during the last elections were REPUNANTS.


That's an unprovable claim.

We do not know that there was no fraud on the left.  The Democrats could have just succeeded in eliminating all the witnesses this time.




Dagosa said:


> Talk about stealing elections……you’ve trying for years.


No.  It is the progressive wing of the party that always tries to do that.




Dagosa said:


> There have been 317 criminal indictments under three recent Republican presidents and only three indictments under three recent Democratic presidents.


That's because progressives abuse the law to conduct witch hunts against people who don't agree with their demented ideology.

When the Republicans lose their patience and start doing it back to the Democrats, hopefully they will realize that it is only the progressive Democrats who are their enemy.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Apr 7, 2022)

I have many guns.

Many of the guns I have are what idiot, bed-wetting libs would call "assault weapons".

I have semi-automatic handguns.

I have revolvers.

I have sawed off shotguns.

And anyone who would believe they can come take my guns is welcome to try...


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 7, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> I have many guns.
> 
> Many of the guns I have are what idiot, bed-wetting libs would call "assault weapons".
> 
> ...


OooH!  Tough guy!  Quick!  Hide the dog and the hamster!  You sound like the exact opposite of who should have firearms.  You must be a real hoot at a party.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 7, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> You sound like the exact opposite of who should have firearms.


You don't have any say over whether he can have firearms.  He has the right to have them whether you like it or not.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Apr 7, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> OooH!  Tough guy!  Quick!  Hide the dog and the hamster!  You sound like the exact opposite of who should have firearms.  You must be a real hoot at a party.



Apparently you're fine with being a subject as opposed to a citizen. I'm sure that works for you; some meek-minded sot, unaware and unsure of himself. You _need _to be ruled.

The 2nd Amendment ensures all of the other Amendments remain intact.

It's sad that you think a person who would willfully surrender his firearms is the only type of person who should have them.

You're a sad and stupid boy...


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 7, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> You don't have any say over whether he can have firearms.  He has the right to have them whether you like it or not.


Really?  Tell us more, professor!


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 7, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Really?  Tell us more, professor!


The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 7, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Apparently you're fine with being a subject as opposed to a citizen. I'm sure that works for you; some meek-minded sot, unaware and unsure of himself. You _need _to be ruled.
> 
> The 2nd Amendment ensures all of the other Amendments remain intact.
> 
> ...


And you're a wannabe tough guy who needs lots of guns to make up for some fuckin' thing that falls short.  Is that what you're so afraid of?   Probably paranoid and a sucker for all of the hate and fear mongering that was spread across the country to control you and others like you for 5 years.  You believe the BS about bogeymen coming to rape and pillage and steal your children and eat them.  LOL  Stock up partner there's another caravan coming and the ghosts of Osama Bin Ladin and Elvis and JFK Jr. are leading them right to your door!    Lock and load and no nodding on guard duty!


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 8, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


How do you know they were talking about Firearms?  Maybe they were referring to just your arms.  Both of them.  That, I would agree with.  Every human needs to have two arms.   Otherwise how will they hug Mommy?  BTW.  You don't need guns.  Mommy has your back and she has a rolling pin.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Apr 8, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> And you're a wannabe tough guy who needs lots of guns to make up for some fuckin' thing that falls short.  Is that what you're so afraid of?   Probably paranoid and a sucker for all of the hate and fear mongering that was spread across the country to control you and others like you for 5 years.  You believe the BS about bogeymen coming to rape and pillage and steal your children and eat them.  LOL  Stock up partner there's another caravan coming and the ghosts of Osama Bin Ladin and Elvis and JFK Jr. are leading them right to your door!    Lock and load and no nodding on guard duty!



It's obvious you're afraid of good Americans exercising their Constitutional rights. Why is that?


----------



## Canon Shooter (Apr 8, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> How do you know they were talking about Firearms?  Maybe they were referring to just your arms.  Both of them.  That, I would agree with.  Every human needs to have two arms.   Otherwise how will they hug Mommy?  BTW.  You don't need guns.  Mommy has your back and she has a rolling pin.



You're a fucking idiot...


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 8, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> You believe the BS about bogeymen coming to rape and pillage and steal your children and eat them.


Well, there's no question that BLM goons are bad news.

Those of us who live way out in the countryside can take care of ourselves if a BLM goon comes out here to attack us.  And I assume that suburban police are gunning down any BLM goons that go out to the suburbs and attack the police.  But I really feel for the people who live in inner cities where the police are being disarmed by leftist politicians and BLM goons are running rampant.




Wickerthing said:


> How do you know they were talking about Firearms?


Because the right to keep and bear arms has specifically included people having guns for the private defense of their homes since at least 1541.




Wickerthing said:


> You don't need guns.


Need is irrelevant.  I don't have to need them.  I have the right to have them if I want to have them.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 8, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Well, there's no question that BLM goons are bad news.
> 
> Those of us who live way out in the countryside can take care of ourselves if a BLM goon comes out here to attack us.  And I assume that suburban police are gunning down any BLM goons that go out to the suburbs and attack the police.  But I really feel for the people who live in inner cities where the police are being disarmed by leftist politicians and BLM goons are running rampant.
> 
> ...


Within ANY group there will be bad apples.  But that doesn't negate what they are fighting for.  There are just as many Blue Lives Matter goons who are the root of the problem.  They earn the hate every day.  A case of what is bound to happen when a group is given unlimited power with damn near total immunity.  Police have become just another street gang who kill without fear of consequences.  Overall, they have become more dangerous to the public than any terrorist organization.  BY FAR!


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 8, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Well, there's no question that BLM goons are bad news.
> 
> Those of us who live way out in the countryside can take care of ourselves if a BLM goon comes out here to attack us.  And I assume that suburban police are gunning down any BLM goons that go out to the suburbs and attack the police.  But I really feel for the people who live in inner cities where the police are being disarmed by leftist politicians and BLM goons are running rampant.
> 
> ...


Well, that's adorable.  Since your bolt is clear you could even make whoopee with them.  Don't forget the safety.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 8, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Within ANY group there will be bad apples.  But that doesn't negate what they are fighting for.  There are just as many Blue Lives Matter goons who are the root of the problem.  They earn the hate every day.  A case of what is bound to happen when a group is given unlimited power with damn near total immunity.  Police have become just another street gang who kill without fear of consequences.  Overall, they have become more dangerous to the public than any terrorist organization.  BY FAR!


I'm not so convinced that there are so many bad police officers (I do know there are some).

I do support changing qualified immunity so that police departments can be sued whenever someone's civil liberties are violated by the police.

That will allow people who have had their civil liberties violated to obtain redress, and it will pressure police departments to do more to ensure that they do not violate people's civil liberties in the first place.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 8, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> It's obvious you're afraid of good Americans exercising their Constitutional rights. Why is that?


No.  I'm afraid of the easy availability and the lack of mental health screening.  And the worship of the NRA by those who deny and/or ignore all of these school shootings.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 8, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> And the worship of the NRA by those who deny and/or ignore all of these school shootings.


It's not really worship.  We just appreciate having our civil liberties protected.

(Since I like to deny and ignore schools shootings, I assume that I fall into the group that you were referring to.)


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 8, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I'm not so convinced that there are so many bad police officers (I do know there are some).
> 
> I do support changing qualified immunity so that police departments can be sued whenever someone's civil liberties are violated by the police.
> 
> That will allow people who have had their civil liberties violated to obtain redress, and it will pressure police departments to do more to ensure that they do not violate people's civil liberties in the first place.


No!  Suing a dept is a joke.  Internal affairs will intimidate, cajole, ignore, flip the script and any other tactic to stop any investigation.  And even in rare cases where guilt is undeniable and judges don't simply side with the Blue, whatever monies that are realized by the victims will come from taxpayers. Changing qualified immunity?  What changes?  Unless we get rid of QI altogether and hold officers  accountable personally via civil action against the officer AND the dept, the shifting of bad cops from one dept to another will continue.  Police and police unions have become far too out of control and powerful.  And the way things are right now, new hires are increasingly bad cops from day one.  A majority, not a few apples, are disdainful of those whom they are charged with serving.  They are arrogant, aggressive, immature and ego driven.  It has become an US vs Them atmosphere in far too many cases.  Officers will not turn in the bad ones because those with balls enough to live up to their oath, will become Pariahs and will be drivin out.  It's no longer just a few bad apples, it's the whole orchard.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 8, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> It's not really worship.  We just appreciate having our civil liberties protected.
> 
> (Since I like to deny and ignore schools shootings, I assume that I fall into the group that you were referring to.)


If the foo shits pal!


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 8, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> No!  Suing a dept is a joke.  Internal affairs will intimidate, cajole, ignore, flip the script and any other tactic to stop any investigation.  And even in rare cases where guilt is undeniable and judges don't simply side with the Blue, whatever monies that are realized by the victims will come from taxpayers. Changing qualified immunity?  What changes?  Unless we get rid of QI altogether and hold officers  accountable personally via civil action against the officer AND the dept, the shifting of bad cops from one dept to another will continue.


Suing individual officers is no different from suing the department.

The department provides the police officers with lawyers for free if they are sued for their conduct on the job.  And if the police officers lose the case, the taxpayers still pay the damages.

The point of changing or removing qualified immunity is that more victims will be able to receive damages.  Currently because of qualified immunity many victims are never able to receive compensation for the harm that was done to them.

Also, if a police department is so bad that the taxpayers take a big hit, that will prompt the taxpayers to elect a government that will rein in that police department.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 8, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Suing individual officers is no different from suing the department.
> 
> The department provides the police officers with lawyers for free if they are sued for their conduct on the job.  And if the police officers lose the case, the taxpayers still pay the damages.
> 
> ...


Wrong!  Suing the individual officer civilly means going after his property.  His car, his boat, his personal property.  The Dept didn't shoot an innocent person, he did.  What you are describing is just a bird by a different name.  We have to stop depts from coming to the rescue of these scumbags with our money.    The offender needs to feel the pain of his actions.  A good idea from your perspective would be to understand what's being said before the knee-jerk 'I'm Right!" shit.  What a piece of work you Trumpers are.  LOL


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 8, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Wrong!  Suing the individual officer civilly means going after his property.  His car, his boat, his personal property.


That is incorrect.  The department will provide him with a lawyer, and the taxpayers will pay the damages if he loses.




Wickerthing said:


> The Dept didn't shoot an innocent person, he did.


That won't matter.




Wickerthing said:


> What you are describing is just a bird by a different name.


That's why such lawsuits may as well just be directed at the department itself.




Wickerthing said:


> We have to stop depts from coming to the rescue of these scumbags with our money.


You can't stop that.




Wickerthing said:


> The offender needs to feel the pain of his actions.


That pain will come from internal department disciplinary measures.  Pressure the department to implement better oversight to discipline bad officers.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 8, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> That is incorrect.  The department will provide him with a lawyer, and the taxpayers will pay the damages if he loses.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WTF are you smokin'?  Internal discipline measures?  Internal Affairs depts are where citizen complaints go to die.  Pressure IAs to provide better oversight?  Who's gonna do that?  We need to outlaw QI and criminalize the use of public money to defend these scoundrels.  Leave it up to police to police the police?  Only a fool would think that's possible.  Police dept's are so corrupt across America that many have even discontinued Citizen Complaint forms altogether.  They are in reality, uniformed Clansmen with licenses to kill.  Statistics say that we are 8 times more likely to be killed by a cop than by a terrorist.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Apr 8, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> No.  I'm afraid of the easy availability and the lack of mental health screening.  And the worship of the NRA by those who deny and/or ignore all of these school shootings.



How many NRA members have been responsible for how many school shootings?

I don't disagree that there are things which need to be addressed. Disarming the citizenry is not one of those things...


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 8, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Pressure IAs to provide better oversight?  Who's gonna do that?


Perhaps communities that got sick of paying judgements (if we modified qualified immunity to allow lawsuits against police departments) would pressure their government into providing better oversight of the cops.




Wickerthing said:


> criminalize the use of public money to defend


That simply is not going to happen.  The taxpayers will always pay the judgements when police officers are sued and lose.




Wickerthing said:


> Police dept's are so corrupt across America that many have even discontinued Citizen Complaint forms altogether.  They are in reality, uniformed Clansmen with licenses to kill.


That isn't true at all.  Only a handful of cops are bad.




Wickerthing said:


> Statistics say that we are 8 times more likely to be killed by a cop than by a terrorist.


I'm fine with changing qualified immunity to let police departments be sued for violations of civil liberties.

That will allow people to be compensated for the harm done to them, and it will pressure communities to reform bad police departments.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 8, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> How many NRA members have been responsible for how many school shootings?
> 
> I don't disagree that there are things which need to be addressed. Disarming the citizenry is not one of those things...


And that's your opinion.  There's that straw man argument again.  Very few are saying disarm the citizenry.  We are saying that the sheer numbers are almost pornographic.  And that laws regarding training and availability to dangerous idiots are not adequate.  Too many legally registered guns eventually end up in the wrong hands.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 8, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Perhaps communities that got sick of paying judgements (if we modified qualified immunity to allow lawsuits against police departments) would pressure their government into providing better oversight of the cops.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Only a handful eh?  LOL  There is a gang attitude that has festered and now the handful are the good ones.  There's a saying that pretty much sums up what is happening in policing around the country and the world.,"Back the Blue until it happens to you!"  Because there's a good chance that you may see first hand what I'm talking about.  Look at the Floyd killing for instance.  One cop is kneeling on the neck of someone who is begging for his life while 3 others are standing guard over the scene and their concerns are more about protecting the cop who is squeezing the very life out of a guy than protecting the victim from a sick fuck bent on torturing and killing Floyd.  And as folks are filming the scene, some are yelling. "you're killing him!  He can't breath!  Is this necessary?!"  And neither of the other three cops are saying or doing anything to stop the abuse.   Not a single good apple to be found. 100% of those who could have de-escalated the scene and saved a life did the cowardly thing for fear that their fellow officers would rat them out to the rest of the bad apples.  The days of the friendly neighborhood cop and the dept that weeds out the bad ones are long gone!


----------



## Canon Shooter (Apr 8, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> And that's your opinion.  There's that straw man argument again.  Very few are saying disarm the citizenry.



That _any _would say it should be worrisome to any good American...



Wickerthing said:


> We are saying that the sheer numbers are almost pornographic.



So?

I own 47 firearms of various ilk. Only once has anyone been shot with one of them, and I was acting in self defense.

If morons like you had your way, I wouldn't have been able to defend myself and my smokin' hot Puerto Rican girlfriend. Thankfully, though, cretins like you rarely get your way...




Wickerthing said:


> And that laws regarding training and availability to dangerous idiots are not adequate.  Too many legally registered guns eventually end up in the wrong hands.



You'll never hear me say people shouldn't be trained, and you'll never hear me say that guns need to remain out of the hands of the dangerous or the mentally ill. However, my right to arm myself cannot be infringed to attain that goal. Sorry, that's just the way it works. If the only way to ensure that someone dangerous doesn't get a hold of a gun is to lock him up, then lock him up. Clearly he's unfit to be among society.

And, yes, guns get stolen and end up in the wrong hands. So do cars. Should we limit the number of cars people can have become someone could steal one, go on a drunken joy ride and kill someone?

And my question to you remains unanswered: How many NRA members have been responsible for how many school shootings?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 8, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> And you're a wannabe tough guy who needs lots of guns to make up for some fuckin' thing that falls short.  Is that what you're so afraid of?


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 8, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> How do you know they were talking about Firearms?  Maybe they were referring to just your arms.  Both of them.  That, I would agree with.  Every human needs to have two arms.   Otherwise how will they hug Mommy?  BTW.  You don't need guns.  Mommy has your back and she has a rolling pin.


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 8, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> No.  I'm afraid of the easy availability and the lack of mental health screening.  And the worship of the NRA by those who deny and/or ignore all of these school shootings.


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 8, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> WTF are you smokin'?  Internal discipline measures?  Internal Affairs depts are where citizen complaints go to die.  Pressure IAs to provide better oversight?  Who's gonna do that?  We need to outlaw QI and criminalize the use of public money to defend these scoundrels.  Leave it up to police to police the police?  Only a fool would think that's possible.  Police dept's are so corrupt across America that many have even discontinued Citizen Complaint forms altogether.  They are in reality, uniformed Clansmen with licenses to kill.  Statistics say that we are 8 times more likely to be killed by a cop than by a terrorist.




School shootings?   

We had 6 mass public shootings in 2021.......

6 individuals out of over 330 million people committed mass public shootings.....

Number of schools shootings? 

1

How many people did they kill in all 6 events combined?

Total, 43.

Lawnmowers kill between 90-100 every year.

Deer kill 200 people every year.

Ladders kill 300 people every year.

Bathtubs kill 350 people every year.

Cars kill over 39,000...


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> School shootings?
> 
> We had 6 mass public shootings in 2021.......
> 
> ...


False equivalency.  You are describing accidents.  The day that lawn mowers attack a school or a mosque, you may have a point.  Were those deer packin?  See? this is a prime example of how conservatives lie or redirect in order to dismiss what's the real threat.  Just 43?  Well, shit!  fuck those victims then right?  I don't know why I bother trying to talk real world sense to you clowns.  And, all of those crazy, violent ladders!  We should place cuffs on the second rung and toss them in jail with the bathtubs and the deer.  Even if I was to accept your point, those bathroom fixtures and ladders examples do not include innocent citizens shot by cops and other gang members.  Or crimes committed with guns that have been stolen at burglaries at homes with entirely too many guns.  After my stint in Vietnam, 53 years ago I've never felt a need to get an assault weapon or a gun that could be converted to an assault weapon.    I wouldn't take a chance that the kids or grand kids could get their hands on them.   I've both killed with those guns and  I've been shot with them.  They have no place in my world.  If I felt threatened by Rogue bathtubs or a deer militia, I might get a handgun and stow it away from prying eyes.  That was the pretty standard gun for personal protection.  Now, we suddenly need an AR or an AK?  It has everything to do with ego and nothing to do with common sense.  But what it does do is encourage immature assholes to want to play war or impress the little woman.  Now, there are so fuckin' many of those weapons of overkill that it rings insanity.  But those who are in it for instant respect or fuckability will get neither.  You just look silly and wanton.  Just like I've seen on here, fools relate those types of guns to being seen as tough guys!  They can strut their stuff and convince themselves that they are more than.  They just look like the fools that they are.  I despise those tough guys.  In reality, If an armed deer tried to attack them they would jump on their lawn mower and be gone.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 8, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> After my stint in Vietnam, 53 years ago I've never felt a need to get an assault weapon or a gun that could be converted to an assault weapon.    I wouldn't take a chance that the kids or grand kids could get their hands on them.


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 8, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Only a handful eh?  LOL  There is a gang attitude that has festered and now the handful are the good ones.


That is incorrect.  Most police officers are the good guys.




Wickerthing said:


> Look at the Floyd killing for instance.  One cop is kneeling on the neck of someone who is begging for his life while 3 others are standing guard over the scene and their concerns are more about protecting the cop who is squeezing the very life out of a guy than protecting the victim from a sick fuck bent on torturing and killing Floyd.


That isn't true.  They did protest to the officer in charge.  They were overruled.

Also, he was hardly bent on killing the guy.  He didn't realize that he was killing him.




Wickerthing said:


> And neither of the other three cops are saying or doing anything to stop the abuse.


Not true.  They did say something.




Wickerthing said:


> Not a single good apple to be found. 100% of those who could have de-escalated the scene and saved a life did the cowardly thing for fear that their fellow officers would rat them out to the rest of the bad apples.  The days of the friendly neighborhood cop and the dept that weeds out the bad ones are long gone!


That isn't true.




Wickerthing said:


> False equivalency.  You are describing accidents.


False equivalency indeed.

Accidental bathtub deaths can actually be prevented by banning bathtubs.

Banning guns however will not stop a single murder.  Murderers will just use other weapons to commit their killings.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 8, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> That _any _would say it should be worrisome to any good American...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Again with the strawman argument?


Canon Shooter said:


> Apparently you're fine with being a subject as opposed to a citizen. I'm sure that works for you; some meek-minded sot, unaware and unsure of himself. You _need _to be ruled.
> 
> The 2nd Amendment ensures all of the other Amendments remain intact.
> 
> ...


That's MR. Strawman to you.


Open Bolt said:


> That is incorrect.  Most police officers are the good guys.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, they could swing that ladder at ya.  Or they could sic Bambi on ya!  Or shit!  Better still, they could unleash a militia of sheep on you. And we all know what that feels like.  Last time I was surrounded by the wooly bullies, and I had no choice but to bathe them.  Nothing more frightening than that except perhaps a bunny troup bent on your demise.  The Horrwah,  the horrwah!  Sorry, I must stop.  I see kittens on the horizon!


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 8, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> False equivalency.  You are describing accidents.  The day that lawn mowers attack a school or a mosque, you may have a point.  Were those deer packin?  See? this is a prime example of how conservatives lie or redirect in order to dismiss what's the real threat.  Just 43?  Well, shit!  fuck those victims then right?  I don't know why I bother trying to talk real world sense to you clowns.  And, all of those crazy, violent ladders!  We should place cuffs on the second rung and toss them in jail with the bathtubs and the deer.  Even if I was to accept your point, those bathroom fixtures and ladders examples do not include innocent citizens shot by cops and other gang members.  Or crimes committed with guns that have been stolen at burglaries at homes with entirely too many guns.  After my stint in Vietnam, 53 years ago I've never felt a need to get an assault weapon or a gun that could be converted to an assault weapon.    I wouldn't take a chance that the kids or grand kids could get their hands on them.   I've both killed with those guns and  I've been shot with them.  They have no place in my world.  If I felt threatened by Rogue bathtubs or a deer militia, I might get a handgun and stow it away from prying eyes.  That was the pretty standard gun for personal protection.  Now, we suddenly need an AR or an AK?  It has everything to do with ego and nothing to do with common sense.  But what it does do is encourage immature assholes to want to play war or impress the little woman.  Now, there are so fuckin' many of those weapons of overkill that it rings insanity.  But those who are in it for instant respect or fuckability will get neither.  You just look silly and wanton.  Just like I've seen on here, fools relate those types of guns to being seen as tough guys!  They can strut their stuff and convince themselves that they are more than.  They just look like the fools that they are.  I despise those tough guys.  In reality, If an armed deer tried to attack them they would jump on their lawn mower and be gone.




You moron....we have 330 million people and over 600 million guns....you do not take away Rights over 43 victims....when cars kill over 30,000 every single year, you dumb ass...

You really are a dipstick........time to go take your nap....


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 8, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Again with the strawman argument?


I don't perceive any strawman argument in his post.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 8, 2022)

Canon shooter:  
"That is incorrect.  Most police officers are the good guys."

Try making a citizen complaint report sometime.  And documenting your encounter with the most senior officer there.  Now start counting the reasonable cops who are comfortable with your attempt to make a record of the event.  Now assert your 1st,  4th. and 5th Amendment guarantees when they try to toss your asses out and demand your personal information.  And, while you're explaining to them that their office is  under surveillance with multiple cameras and that it's only fair that you can request copies of that footage from them as well.  Watch in sheer amazement as they snap to your request in a cordial, consentual and respectful manner.  LOL


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 8, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I don't perceive any strawman argument in his post.


Of course you don't!


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> You moron....we have 330 million people and over 600 million guns....you do not take away Rights over 43 victims....when cars kill over 30,000 every single year, you dumb ass...
> 
> You really are a dipstick........time to go take your nap....


What do we have here?  Another keyboard warrior?         2 1/2 guns per person in America.  And that includes every man,  woman and child. Hey! we must be slacking.  It should be 5 per person.  So, work on it!!


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 8, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Canon shooter:
> "That is incorrect.  Most police officers are the good guys."


It was me that said that.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 8, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> The QAnon right is as deranged as you can get. Got any baby cannibal stories ?


From the libs who support infanticide ?  I try to avoid reading about them.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 8, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Funny, it’s you guys who lead the Dems in admin felony prosecutions and indictments. The only organized fraud during the last elections were REPUNANTS. Talk about stealing elections……you’ve trying for years.
> There have been 317 criminal indictments under three recent Republican presidents and only three indictments under three recent Democratic presidents.


Notice how leftists repeat what they hear on CNN, MSNBC, PBS ?  You'd think they'd question at least SOME of these babblings, but robots don't think for themselves


----------



## protectionist (Apr 8, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> Of course your smarter than me. Thats why youvr got an arsenal of guns you never use.
> Youre so smart you should grease your arse and slip into the next world , preferanle light years away.


Well, there's another proof of how much smarter I am than you.  The "use" of a gun comes from shooting it (when need be), and having it (anytime). Besides shooting someone in self-defense, one of the prime uses of a gun is having it for deterrence against those who know you have it, as well as being prepared to deal with those you could be needing it for.

There is no such thing as "never use" a gun. It is used the second you possess it.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Apr 8, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Canon shooter:
> "That is incorrect.  Most police officers are the good guys."
> 
> Try making a citizen complaint report sometime.  And documenting your encounter with the most senior officer there.  Now start counting the reasonable cops who are comfortable with your attempt to make a record of the event.  Now assert your 1st,  4th. and 5th Amendment guarantees when they try to toss your asses out and demand your personal information.  And, while you're explaining to them that their office is  under surveillance with multiple cameras and that it's only fair that you can request copies of that footage from them as well.  Watch in sheer amazement as they snap to your request in a cordial, consentual and respectful manner.  LOL



Wow.

You really are a lying little fuck, aren't you?

I never said what you've attributed to me, you lying piece of shit. It's clear you can't make an argument without lying.

You're a complete fucking scumbag...


----------



## protectionist (Apr 8, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> And you're a wannabe tough guy who needs lots of guns to make up for some fuckin' thing that falls short.  Is that what you're so afraid of?   Probably paranoid and a sucker for all of the hate and fear mongering that was spread across the country to control you and others like you for 5 years.  You believe the BS about bogeymen coming to rape and pillage and steal your children and eat them.  LOL  Stock up partner there's another caravan coming and the ghosts of Osama Bin Ladin and Elvis and JFK Jr. are leading them right to your door!    Lock and load and no nodding on guard duty!


This coming after all the riots, arson, looting, and mayhem of the last 2 years.  But if media masters order their DUPES to minimize crime threat, that is how the robots will respond.  Put out a sign saying "Home Invaders Welcome"


----------



## protectionist (Apr 8, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> .  You don't need guns.


Your CNN programmed robot credentials are safe for another year.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Apr 8, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> And you're a wannabe tough guy who needs lots of guns to make up for some fuckin' thing that falls short.  Is that what you're so afraid of?   Probably paranoid and a sucker for all of the hate and fear mongering that was spread across the country to control you and others like you for 5 years.  You believe the BS about bogeymen coming to rape and pillage and steal your children and eat them.  LOL  Stock up partner there's another caravan coming and the ghosts of Osama Bin Ladin and Elvis and JFK Jr. are leading them right to your door!    Lock and load and no nodding on guard duty!


You're a lying scumbag...


----------



## protectionist (Apr 8, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> You question the intellect of others while you speak in tongues?   necessnnThensry?  Yeah, you are clearly  a savant.  LOL


using a govt tablet - couldn't figure that out ?


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 8, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Wow.
> You really are a lying little fuck, aren't you?
> I never said what you've attributed to me, you lying piece of shit. It's clear you can't make an argument without lying.
> You're a complete fucking scumbag...


I think it was an honest mistake.  I was the one who said it.

Everyone here is way too quick to tear into each other.


----------



## Colin norris (Apr 9, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Well, there's another proof of how much smarter I am than you.


this should be but don't get upset when i rip into you again. 


protectionist said:


> The "use" of a gun comes from shooting it (when need be), and having it (anytime).



oh brilliant.  You should be lecturing at university. 


protectionist said:


> Besides shooting someone in self-defense, one of the prime uses of a gun is having it for deterrence against those who know you have it,


Is it really? And how many times have you flashed your gun down the street to make everyone aware you are a tough guy rambo? 
I'll say never. 


protectionist said:


> as well as being prepared to deal with those you could be needing it for.



You'd do society a favour if you sought medical treatment for your delusions. 


protectionist said:


> There is no such thing as "never use" a gun. It is used the second you possess it.


What a pathetic justification. As before you have them for no reason whatsoever.  You rarely take them out but brag how many you have to your rambo inspired mates, who are equally as pathetic as you. 
You have them because you can. There will never be an opportunity to eradicate tyrannical govts because that chance has come and gone. You have never used it for self defence or hunting and you know it. Its pure tough guy ego.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 9, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> It was me that said that.


Yes!  And more truth has never been told!  You and Donald, man!  You've got it down.


Canon Shooter said:


> Wow.
> 
> You really are a lying little fuck, aren't you?
> 
> ...


Yeah, and those are just my redeeming qualities!


protectionist said:


> This coming after all the riots, arson, looting, and mayhem of the last 2 years.  But if media masters order their DUPES to minimize crime threat, that is how the robots will respond.  Put out a sign saying "Home Invaders Welcome"


You're getting sillier by the minute.  But it is a hoot.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 9, 2022)

Canon shooter said:  
You really are a lying little fuck, aren't you?

I'm hardly a little fuck.  6' 5" 240 So from this point on you will address me as  Mr Big Fuck or Sir Fuck or Sir Pokes-a-Lot!


----------



## protectionist (Apr 9, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> this should be but don't get upset when i rip into you again.
> 
> 
> oh brilliant.  You should be lecturing at university.
> ...


Everything you said in this laughingstock post is wrong.  Àll you ever do is show off how deeply programmed you are by the idiot left..  We know your dupe mindset.
You can say never
,


----------



## Colin norris (Apr 9, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Everything you said in this laughingstock post is wrong.  Àll you ever do is show off how deeply programmed you are by the idiot left..  We know your dupe mindset.
> You can say never
> ,


All that is possibly true but I remain correct in the face of all your condemnation.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 10, 2022)

Colin norris said:


> You have them because you can. There will never be an opportunity to eradicate tyrannical govts because that chance has come and gone. You have never used it for self defence or hunting and you know it. Its pure tough guy ego.


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 11, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


Wow!  What a unique response.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 11, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Notice how leftists repeat what they hear on CNN, MSNBC, PBS ?  You'd think they'd question at least SOME of these babblings, but robots don't think for themselves


Notice how ignorant the right is. They don’t even know history. Why don’t you ask yoo mama about Watergate and the Nixon resignation and the Reagan debacles. That was long before we had Fix News which just made up shit for you guys to spout.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 11, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I am not aware of any statistics showing that more conservative Democrats are prosecuted than progressive Democrats.
> 
> But given the way that progressives abuse the law to conduct witch hunts against people who don't share in their demented ideology, it wouldn't surprise me.
> 
> ...


Gee, the only alternative I guess you’re supporting as to why so many repugs admin personal have been indicted and so few democrats, is that repugnants are too incompetent to successfully prosecute them. You’ve been investigating Hillary forever it seems with no indictments. Next, it’s Hunter, for whatever reasons. Must be that fking deep state. The one that contains no repugnants. Well, no stupid repugnants.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 11, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Notice how leftists repeat what they hear on CNN, MSNBC, PBS ?  You'd think they'd question at least SOME of these babblings, but robots don't think for themselves


And you follow  QAnon tripe. Wow. PBS vs QAnon. I confess. I follow PBS and think QAnon followers are political idiot low lifes. Now, let’s take a vote among sane people.


----------



## Failzero (Apr 11, 2022)

2aguy said:


> School shootings?
> 
> We had 6 mass public shootings in 2021.......
> 
> ...


Fentanyl has killed more Americans in last six years  than there were Military deaths in all the wars since the Korean War


----------



## Failzero (Apr 11, 2022)

Democommies are rabid gungrabbers ( who woulda thunk it )


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 12, 2022)

Failzero said:


> Fentanyl has killed more Americans in last six years  than there were Military deaths in all the wars since the Korean War


So what do we need guns for? Someone's breaking in? , don't get excited, say:  "Well, come on in!  Can I offer you a drink?" It will break the tension and just be sure to have spiked that Gatorade.  Then say: " finish your drink and I'll help you load the truck with my stuff." Same deal with war.  If we had been issued some weed rather than an M16 we could have played some Zeppelin, toked up and just waited until they are distracted by the fridge and its contents.  And between  every bite of KFC we slap the bracelets on them.  Then we switch from Zep to Captain Beefheart to keep them confused and compliant.    Guns, Shmuns!  Extra Krispy drumsticks and extra Krispy enemy.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 12, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Gee, the only alternative I guess you’re supporting as to why so many repugs admin personal have been indicted and so few democrats, is that repugnants are too incompetent to successfully prosecute them. You’ve been investigating Hillary forever it seems with no indictments. Next, it’s Hunter, for whatever reasons. Must be that fking deep state. The one that contains no repugnants. Well, no stupid repugnants.


The Republicans so far have not been seriously investigating anyone.  Their last serious investigations were run by Ken Starr.  They had thought that after Ken Starr the Democrats had learned their lesson and would no longer be waging political witch hunts.  Obviously they were wrong to assume that.

Presumably at some point the Republicans will lose patience with all the witch-hunting and they will start giving the Democrats a dose of their own medicine.  I don't know when that will be.  I'd prefer soon, but who knows.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 12, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> The Republicans so far have not been seriously investigating anyone.  Their last serious investigations were run by Ken Starr.  They had thought that after Ken Starr the Democrats had learned their lesson and would no longer be waging political witch hunts.  Obviously they were wrong to assume that.
> 
> Presumably at some point the Republicans will lose patience with all the witch-hunting and they will start giving the Democrats a dose of their own medicine.  I don't know when that will be.  I'd prefer soon, but who knows.


The GOP is always demonizing those on the left.  Birther gate, Benghazi Gate, Hunter Gate.  They don't get results but are successful at playing Misdirection gate.  But we are close to issuing indictments that will stick.  Call it what you will but sometime witch hunts bag some witches.


----------



## Failzero (Apr 12, 2022)

Now we have Subwaygate  ( Black Illegal Islamist Terrorist tries to blow up Subway Car ,  Sprays Riders with Machine Gun Fire )


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 12, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> The GOP is always demonizing those on the left.  Birther gate, Benghazi Gate, Hunter Gate.  They don't get results but are successful at playing Misdirection gate.  But we are close to issuing indictments that will stick.  Call it what you will but sometime witch hunts bag some witches.


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 12, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Canon shooter said:
> You really are a lying little fuck, aren't you?
> 
> I'm hardly a little fuck.  6' 5" 240 So from this point on you will address me as  Mr Big Fuck or Sir Fuck or Sir Pokes-a-Lot!


ideal body weight for 6'5" man is 185-210 lbs.  If you are 240, you're a fat slob, who needs to go on a diet. 







Colin norris said:


> All that is possibly true but I remain correct in the face of all your condemnation.


In your warped mind, you remain correct. Sadly, only there.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 12, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Notice how ignorant the right is. They don’t even know history. Why don’t you ask yoo mama about Watergate and the Nixon resignation and the Reagan debacles. That was long before we had Fix News which just made up shit for you guys to spout.


I lived through all those things and many things years before them.  What I notice is how ignorant the left is. Take my quizzes for liberals. You'll find out.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 12, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Gee, the only alternative I guess you’re supporting as to why so many repugs admin personal have been indicted and so few democrats, is that repugnants are too incompetent to successfully prosecute them. You’ve been investigating Hillary forever it seems with no indictments. Next, it’s Hunter, for whatever reasons. Must be that fking deep state. The one that contains no repugnants. Well, no stupid repugnants.


Look how they pretend the Bidens and Clintons are innocent.  Or could they actually be that ignorant ?  Looking at some shows on CNN/MSNBC, I'd say yeah, they could be.


----------



## Failzero (Apr 12, 2022)

NFL Tight Ends are 6-5 240   (And in best shape of their Lives)


----------



## protectionist (Apr 12, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> And you follow  QAnon tripe. Wow. PBS vs QAnon. I confess. I follow PBS and think QAnon followers are political idiot low lifes. Now, let’s take a vote among sane people.


I dont even know what means, nor do I have any need to.  Looking it up, it appears to be either a very small fringe cult of sorts, or possibly an offshoot of that, maybe picked up by leftist activist provacateurs, and being used as a propaganda tool - and please don't tell me that the left doesn't do that, because I was a prime member of the left for 40 years, and I participated in some of those provacateur propaganda activities myself, before I came to my senses about 20 years ago.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 12, 2022)

Failzero said:


> NFL Tight Ends are 6-5 240   (And in best shape of their Lives)


Not if they're 6-5, 240.  Most people have a highly inflated idea of what weight should be. I'm 6 feet and 195, and people say I'm about right. Not at all.  I should be about 170 at the most, and I work at trying to get back to that weight.

Boxing trainers are a good point of reference for this. They will back what I'm saying 100%.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 12, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> The GOP is always demonizing those on the left.  Birther gate, Benghazi Gate, Hunter Gate.  They don't get results but are successful at playing Misdirection gate.  But we are close to issuing indictments that will stick.  Call it what you will but sometime witch hunts bag some witches.


Not when they got the political pull of the serial killer Clintons.  Worst politics demons in US history.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 12, 2022)

Failzero said:


> Fentanyl has killed more Americans in last six years  than there were Military deaths in all the wars since the Korean War


And most of it is attributed to lax immigration policy by Democrats, and their running dogs in the media, who constantly push the myth that Obama deported large numbers of illegal aliens, while the real question is if he deported ANYBODY. (with a system of Catch & Release in full force)


----------



## protectionist (Apr 12, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> So what do we need guns for? Someone's breaking in? , don't get excited, say:  "Well, come on in!  Can I offer you a drink?" It will break the tension and just be sure to have spiked that Gatorade.  Then say: " finish your drink and I'll help you load the truck with my stuff." Same deal with war.  If we had been issued some weed rather than an M16 we could have played some Zeppelin, toked up and just waited until they are distracted by the fridge and its contents.  And between  every bite of KFC we slap the bracelets on them.  Then we switch from Zep to Captain Beefheart to keep them confused and compliant.    Guns, Shmuns!  Extra Krispy drumsticks and extra Krispy enemy.


Hey, Ho, get off of my cloud!   🤪


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 12, 2022)

protectionist said:


> ideal body weight for 6'5" man is 185-210 lbs.  If you are 240, you're a fat slob, who needs to go on a diet.
> 
> View attachment 629671
> 
> In your warped mind, you remain correct. Sadly, only there.


That's it?  That's your best shot?


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 12, 2022)

protectionist said:


> And most of it is attributed to lax immigration policy by Democrats, and their running dogs in the media, who constantly push the myth that Obama deported large numbers of illegal aliens, while the real question is if he deported ANYBODY. (with a system of Catch & Release in full force)


The vast majority of illegal drugs come into this country through legal ports of entry.  So much for your latest righty theory.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 12, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Not if they're 6-5, 240.  Most people have a highly inflated idea of what weight should be. I'm 6 feet and 195, and people say I'm about right. Not at all.  I should be about 170 at the most, and I work at trying to get back to that weight.
> 
> Boxing trainers are a good point of reference for this. They will back what I'm saying 100%.


Then you are a fat slob.


----------



## Flash (Apr 12, 2022)

This buffoon should never be allowed to touch a firearm.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 12, 2022)

Flash said:


> This buffoon should never be allowed to touch a firearm.
> 
> View attachment 629853


And your orange master shouldn't be allowed to eat with a fork.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 12, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> So what do we need guns for?    Guns, Shmuns!











						Woman has both arms amputated after being attacked by dogs while on walk
					

The local South Carolina sheriff's office said that the dogs were taken in by animal control.




					www.newsweek.com
				












						A Louisiana man is presumed dead after an alligator attacked him while he walked in floodwaters
					

Authorities in Louisiana are investigating an apparent fatal alligator attack on a 71-year-old man as he walked in floodwaters following Hurricane Ida.




					www.cnn.com
				












						New Jersey hiker killed by black bear : police
					

By Ellen Wulfhorst (Reuters) - A man hiking in a heavily wooded area of northern New Jersey was killed by a black bear during the weekend, police said on Monday, in what experts called an extremely rare attack. Darsh Patel, 22, of Edison, New Jersey, and four friends encountered the bear on...




					news.yahoo.com
				












						Two women attacked by moose in Colorado
					

Victim describes how moose "grunted and then charged" after coming upon the two friends as they walked their dogs in subdivision




					www.cbsnews.com
				












						Colorado man injured in mountain lion attack
					

It happened Sunday at a home in Montezuma County. The victim sustained several puncture wounds to his leg.




					www.khou.com
				












						U.S. violent crime victims, by gender 2019 | Statista
					

In 2019, the number of male and female violent crime victims was about even, with about 1,579,530 male victims and 1,479,540 female victims.




					www.statista.com


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 12, 2022)

You can find statistics to back any theory on the web.  Over 400 people per year die from accidental shootings in the U.S.  Thousands die each year in boating accidents.  You live in America, you assume certain risks.  And allowing folks to have guns without proper training in their use is one of them.  We can address certain threats by legislation.  We can't stop bears from biting and we can't stop alligators from killing but we CAN control the numbers of guns we allow to be owned by idiots and the types of weapons we allow people to possess.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 13, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> You can find statistics to back any theory on the web.  Over 400 people per year die from accidental shootings in the U.S.  Thousands die each year in boating accidents.  You live in America, you assume certain risks.  And allowing folks to have guns without proper training in their use is one of them.


I have no objections to reasonable training requirements.

I object to training requirements that go beyond what is necessary for safety and are designed just to make gun ownership difficult.

I want local police to be required to receive at least as much firearms training as local civilians are required to receive.




Wickerthing said:


> We can address certain threats by legislation.  We can't stop bears from biting and we can't stop alligators from killing but we CAN control the numbers of guns we allow to be owned by idiots and the types of weapons we allow people to possess.


The Second Amendment forbids preventing people from having guns that are suitable for self defense.

So long as someone is able to store their guns safely, it is hard to see how the government has a compelling interest in limiting the number of guns that they have.


----------



## Flash (Apr 13, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> And your orange master shouldn't be allowed to eat with a fork.


Just go take your TDS meds and then shut the fuck up,


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 13, 2022)

Flash said:


> Just go take your TDS meds and then shut the fuck up,


Hey!  I'm just concerned about his health.  Did you see him trying to drink a glass of water?  Give that guy a fork and you may find him dead with 1,255 holes in his face.  "Flash!"   LOL


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 13, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I have no objections to reasonable training requirements.
> 
> I object to training requirements that go beyond what is necessary for safety and are designed just to make gun ownership difficult.
> 
> ...


2nd Amendment doesn't say that.  Someone could claim that RPG's are suitable for self defense.  You gun nuts already claim that a single person can qualify as a well regulated Militia.  2nd is far too vague to make sense of what the founding fathers intended.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 13, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> 2nd Amendment doesn't say that.


Sure it does.  It protects the right to keep and bear arms from being infringed.

The right to keep and bear arms includes people having guns for the private defense of their homes.

Plus the rules of strict scrutiny apply for all fundamental rights regardless of their wording.




Wickerthing said:


> Someone could claim that RPG's are suitable for self defense.


That would hardly be a plausible argument.  A good measure of what is appropriate for defense against criminals is to look at what the police use for defense against criminals.

On the other hand, if the government were to set up a militia again, a good case could be made that RPGs are suitable for militia use.




Wickerthing said:


> You gun nuts


Is name-calling really necessary?




Wickerthing said:


> already claim that a single person can qualify as a well regulated Militia.


I've never claimed that.

I do defend people's free speech rights to say that they are militia when they aren't, but I would never consider them to actually be militia just because they call themselves that.




Wickerthing said:


> 2nd is far too vague to make sense of what the founding fathers intended.


There is nothing vague about it.  The first half requires that the government always keep up a well regulated militia.  The second half protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms from infringement.


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Apr 13, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Sorry to piss on your redneck dreams but not everyone wants to see pickup trucks with guns in the window.  *What causes gun violence?*  Give me a minute..... Hmmmm  *Oh yeah.... Guns? * And couple that with the division and hatred that you Trumpers have sown and you have the perfect environment for meaningless, racist clashes.  Not seeing many liberals out shooting up schools or killing people based on color.  Those separative and cruel words that ignite violence come from the right.    Silly goose.



You said.....

*QUOTE......*
*What causes gun violence?  Oh yeah.... Guns
END QUOTE*

This is one of the most asinine things said this year.
So, airplanes cause airplane crashes then according to your apparently drug warped mind?

*Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.*


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Apr 13, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> And your orange master shouldn't be allowed to eat with a fork.



Why is anyone even responding to you.

You continue to blame Trump for everything.
This is the CLASSIC Moral Narcissist's trademark

You're nothing but a delusion narcissistic assclown and NO ONE should be giving you the time of day.


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Apr 13, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...



I wouldn't call it a joke.
To me it's more of a threat to civility and personal safety, not to mention freedom


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 13, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> You can find statistics to back any theory on the web.  Over 400 people per year die from accidental shootings in the U.S.  Thousands die each year in boating accidents.  You live in America, you assume certain risks.  And allowing folks to have guns without proper training in their use is one of them.  We can address certain threats by legislation.  We can't stop bears from biting and we can't stop alligators from killing but we CAN control the numbers of guns we allow to be owned by idiots and the types of weapons we allow people to possess.


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry, and irrational fear.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 13, 2022)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> Why is anyone even responding to you.
> 
> You continue to blame Trump for everything.
> This is the CLASSIC Moral Narcissist's trademark
> ...


Yet, you do.  Strange!    LOL


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 13, 2022)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> You said.....
> 
> *QUOTE......*
> *What causes gun violence?  Oh yeah.... Guns
> ...


Do I get some sort of a ribbon or medal?


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 13, 2022)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> I wouldn't call it a joke.
> To me it's more of a threat to civility and personal safety, not to mention freedom





Open Bolt said:


> Sure it does.  It protects the right to keep and bear arms from being infringed.
> 
> The right to keep and bear arms includes people having guns for the private defense of their homes.
> 
> ...


The thing was originally tied to the concept of a militia. Even described a militia as a group of young men with the physical ability to act as a defending force.   The amendment has been amended 17 times since 1791.  Many constitutional experts still believe that the right to bear arms should and was always meant to describe a Militia.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 13, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> The thing was originally tied to the concept of a militia. Even described a militia as a group of young men with the physical ability to act as a defending force.


Tying the right of the people to keep and bear arms to the militia brings those rocket propelled grenades that you mentioned into the picture.  Full-auto weapons as well.

The duties of the militia include repelling foreign invasions.

I'm more than happy to do that of course, but I'd rather get the courts used to enforcing Heller first.  Then we can try to get the courts to start enforcing Miller too.




Wickerthing said:


> Many constitutional experts still believe that the right to bear arms should and was always meant to describe a Militia.


They are wrong.  It is the people who have the right to keep and bear arms.  The right is not limited to members of any military body.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 13, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Tying the right of the people to keep and bear arms to the militia brings those rocket propelled grenades that you mentioned into the picture.  Full-auto weapons as well.
> 
> The duties of the militia include repelling foreign invasions.
> 
> ...


Says you.  But like I said, folks a lot smarter than me and you still believe that the two concepts were never meant to be separated.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 13, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Says you.


No.  Says the Constitution.  It clearly says "the right of the people" not the right of the members of a particular military body.

Also says the legal history of the right to keep and bear arms.  It was always the general populace who possessed the right to have guns.




Wickerthing said:


> But like I said, folks a lot smarter than me and you still believe that the two concepts were never meant to be separated.


Linking them is fine.  I won't complain.

Linking them merely means that instead of weapons suitable for self defense, we have the right to have weapons suitable for repelling a foreign invasion.

That means grenades and bazookas and full-auto weapons.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 13, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> No.  Says the Constitution.  It clearly says "the right of the people" not the right of the members of a particular military body.
> 
> Also says the legal history of the right to keep and bear arms.  It was always the general populace who possessed the right to have guns.
> 
> ...


Again, that's one interpretation among many.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 13, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Tying the right of the people to keep and bear arms to the militia brings those rocket propelled grenades that you mentioned into the picture.  Full-auto weapons as well.
> 
> The duties of the militia include repelling foreign invasions.
> 
> ...


You're More Than Happy?  Sounds like a dangerous mental condition.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 13, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry, and irrational fear.


And I would not expect that you have the intellectual ability to realize that you are using personal insults to make the case that they are childish.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 13, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> And I would not expect that you have the intellectual ability to realize that you are using personal insults to make the case that they are childish.


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry, and irrational fear.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 13, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Again, that's one interpretation among many.


It has the advantage of being the only correct interpretation.  The Constitution clearly lists repelling foreign invasions among the duties of the militia.

So when you talk about the militia, you are talking about the sorts of weapons that would be useful in repelling a foreign invasion.


----------



## protectionist (Apr 14, 2022)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> I wouldn't call it a joke.
> To me it's more of a threat to civility and personal safety, not to mention freedom


Certainly is.  Deep down, I keep thinking the Supreme Court will save us from these Biden stupidities.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 14, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> It has the advantage of being the only correct interpretation.  The Constitution clearly lists repelling foreign invasions among the duties of the militia.
> 
> So when you talk about the militia, you are talking about the sorts of weapons that would be useful in repelling a foreign invasion.


And were the previous 17 amendments to that one also the only correct ones?  When are you gonna admit that the 2nd Amendment is and has always been a work in progress?


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 14, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> And were the previous 17 amendments to that one also the only correct ones?


I am not sure I understand what you mean.  An amendment to the Constitution is neither correct nor incorrect.  It simply is.

Now, individual people can have opinions as to whether they approve or disapprove of a given amendment, but that's not really the same thing as an amendment being correct or not.




Wickerthing said:


> When are you gonna admit that the 2nd Amendment is and has always been a work in progress?


Never, because that isn't true.  The clear meaning has been cut and dried since the beginning.

And you are correct to tie the right to the militia.  For now I'm content to merely press for the courts to start enforcing Heller.  But once they start enforcing Heller I'm going to start pressing for them to start enforcing Miller as well.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 14, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I am not sure I understand what you mean.  An amendment to the Constitution is neither correct nor incorrect.  It simply is.
> 
> Now, individual people can have opinions as to whether they approve or disapprove of a given amendment, but that's not really the same thing as an amendment being correct or not.
> 
> ...


That makes no sense.  But I guess it doesn't have to.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 14, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> That makes no sense.  But I guess it doesn't have to.


Under the Heller ruling we get semi-autos with large magazines, but we don't get grenades, bazookas, and full-auto weapons.

Under the Miller ruling we get grenades, bazookas, and full-auto weapons.

Getting the courts to start enforcing Heller will be easier to do than getting them to enforce Miller.

But once the courts are enforcing Heller, there is no reason to not push further and try to get them to enforce Miller as well.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 14, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Under the Heller ruling we get semi-autos with large magazines, but we don't get grenades, bazookas, and full-auto weapons.
> 
> Under the Miller ruling we get grenades, bazookas, and full-auto weapons.
> 
> ...


Are you out of your mind?  I'm gonna use common sense and realize that when ya walk into a wall, stop walking or change direction.   Hey! you'll be able to go dinosaur hunting!


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 14, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Are you out of your mind?  I'm gonna use common sense and realize that when ya walk into a wall, stop walking or change direction.   Hey! you'll be able to go dinosaur hunting!


I assume that it will be much more difficult to get the courts to agree to let everyone have grenades and full auto weapons.

But it's no reason not to try.  I'd love to be able to shoot tin cans in my back yard with a submachine gun.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 14, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I assume that it will be much more difficult to get the courts to agree to let everyone have grenades and full auto weapons.
> 
> But it's no reason not to try.  I'd love to be able to shoot tin cans in my back yard with a submachine gun.


I've fired an M60 Machine gun in combat.  It's no great thrill.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 15, 2022)

Unless you're 11 years old, WTF is so thrilling about shooting a can?  Still wanna?  Buy a BB gun.  Then you won't have to worry about what's down range from your target.  That's just the problem with gun ownership based on age or the belief that the CONST. says ANYONE can.  Far too many idiots and adults who never grew up will be in possession of a tool that will not just injure the user but will pose a threat to everyone around him/her. I'm sure you're a great, kind and somewhat sane guy but I don't want to have to trust that you are just because someone handed you a license.  Once you experience what weapons like the M16 or AR15 can do to the human body, there's no longer any doubt to a sane person that weapons like these are indeed weapons of war and have no legitimate purpose beyond that.  And the fact that one looks exactly like the other but one is capable of full auto and the other of semi auto means little when one can easily squeeze and fire at an amazing pace with the AR15.  And now with these very large capacity clips, there is even less to distinguish one from the other.    When  I was in Vietnam in 68-69, clips beyond 20 rounds were scarce and the ones issued weren't truly 20 rounders. 18 was the number unless you wanted to jam frequently.  So on full auto, a burst would empty that clip in about 1-2 seconds. Nobody in my squad used full auto, ever.  But because they look similar, AR15's appeal to grown men who want to play soldier.  That makes them deadlier to be in all but the most mature hands.   The point I'm trying to make is that the differences between hunting rifles and weapons of war are blurred and someone who just wants to look COOL or a serious sportsman becomes blurred also.  Those are the clowns that I worry about.  The NRA types always accuse the left of wanting to take away ALL guns.  But, truth be told, the right has no limit to the types of weapons or the types of people they believe are perfectly okay to own them.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 16, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> I've fired an M60 Machine gun in combat.  It's no great thrill.


Having someone trying to kill you doesn't sound like much fun.

Shooting tin cans is less stressful.  They don't shoot back.

A general purpose machine gun would be a bit much for my backyard though.  A submachine gun is more suited to the space that I have.

If I did get a general purpose machine gun I'd want a German MG-34.  Full autos from between WWI and WWII are so much more elegant than full autos from any other period.




Wickerthing said:


> Unless you're 11 years old, WTF is so thrilling about shooting a can?


Maybe some of us never grow up.




Wickerthing said:


> Still wanna?  Buy a BB gun.


Not the same thing as taking to those tin cans with a real submachine gun.




Wickerthing said:


> Then you won't have to worry about what's down range from your target.


I have a large enough backyard to fire a submachine gun.

On the other hand, firing a submachinegun in my backyard would certainly advertise to the world that I have one to steal.

If I got a MG-34 I would have to take it to an appropriate shooting range in order to fire it, but I wouldn't be advertising my home as a target for thieves.




Wickerthing said:


> That's just the problem with gun ownership based on age or the belief that the CONST. says ANYONE can.  Far too many idiots and adults who never grew up will be in possession of a tool that will not just injure the user but will pose a threat to everyone around him/her. I'm sure you're a great, kind and somewhat sane guy but I don't want to have to trust that you are just because someone handed you a license.


I have no problem with requirements for reasonable safety training for gun ownership.  I wouldn't want the requirements to be made so draconian that it became impossible to get guns though.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 16, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Once you experience what weapons like the M16 or AR15 can do to the human body, there's no longer any doubt to a sane person that weapons like these are indeed weapons of war and have no legitimate purpose beyond that.


AR-15s are used for protection against foxes and coyotes.

The police seem to think that they are appropriate for defending against criminals as well.




Wickerthing said:


> And the fact that one looks exactly like the other but one is capable of full auto and the other of semi auto means little when one can easily squeeze and fire at an amazing pace with the AR15.  And now with these very large capacity clips, there is even less to distinguish one from the other.    When  I was in Vietnam in 68-69, clips beyond 20 rounds were scarce and the ones issued weren't truly 20 rounders. 18 was the number unless you wanted to jam frequently.  So on full auto, a burst would empty that clip in about 1-2 seconds. Nobody in my squad used full auto, ever.


As long as the gun is being aimed for each shot and not just spraying at random, it's also not too far off from the rate of fire of pump-action and lever action.




Wickerthing said:


> But because they look similar, AR15's appeal to grown men who want to play soldier.  That makes them deadlier to be in all but the most mature hands.   The point I'm trying to make is that the differences between hunting rifles and weapons of war are blurred and someone who just wants to look COOL or a serious sportsman becomes blurred also.  Those are the clowns that I worry about.


The cosmetic appearance of the gun doesn't change anything.  What's wrong with looking cool?




Wickerthing said:


> The NRA types always accuse the left of wanting to take away ALL guns.  But, truth be told, the right has no limit to the types of weapons or the types of people they believe are perfectly okay to own them.


That isn't true.  We think it is OK to restrict weapons from criminals and from the dangerously insane.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Apr 16, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> AR-15s are used for protection against foxes and coyotes.



Plus they look super cool.  (Not being snarky here, honestly, they are cool looking guns)




Open Bolt said:


> The cosmetic appearance of the gun doesn't change anything.  What's wrong with looking cool?



Actually not a thing.  EXCEPT that really what that is playing to is the "child" in all of us. A gun is a serious tool for serious adults.  Carrying an AR-15 around the forest while squirrel hunting or even deer hunting would make the hunter look like a moron who is play acting.

I think this is part of the problem with Americas and guns.  We no longer treat them like the useful tools they are.  We have descended into a childlike obsession with the cool looking guns.  And we've developed a poor relationship with those guns.  Might be why we have so much of a problem with them.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 16, 2022)

PV System said:


> Carrying an AR-15 around the forest while squirrel hunting or even deer hunting would make the hunter look like a moron who is play acting.


I'd question hunting squirrels or deer with an AR-15.  It would not be powerful enough to humanely kill a deer.  It would vaporize a squirrel and spoil the meat.  It is more suitable for protection from foxes and coyotes.

But I see no problem with deer hunting with an AR-10.  (With a magazine size compliant with hunting regulations of course.)


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 16, 2022)

PV System said:


> Plus they look super cool.  (Not being snarky here, honestly, they are cool looking guns)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks.  You've said it better than I could.


Open Bolt said:


> AR-15s are used for protection against foxes and coyotes.
> 
> The police seem to think that they are appropriate for defending against criminals as well.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, many times we discover that someone is a criminal or dangerously insane as a result of actions they've taken to expose themselves as such. And typically, the NRA issues a statement about how the gun isn't the problem.   All of that "Thoughts and Prayers" nonsense.  To me, if the reason some adult wants an AR is to make themselves a legend in their own mind, then that in and of itself is a warning sign.  Too many fuckin' guns.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 16, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Unless you're 11 years old, WTF is so thrilling about shooting a can?  Still wanna?  Buy a BB gun.  Then you won't have to worry about what's down range from your target.  That's just the problem with gun ownership based on age or the belief that the CONST. says ANYONE can.


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignoranc,e bigotry and irrational fear.


Wickerthing said:


> Far too many idiots and adults who never grew up will be in possession of a tool that will not just injure the user but will pose a threat to everyone around him/her.


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


Wickerthing said:


> I'm sure you're a great, kind and somewhat sane guy but I don't want to have to trust that you are just because someone handed you a license.  Once you experience what weapons like the M16 or AR15 can do to the human body, there's no longer any doubt to a sane person that weapons like these are indeed weapons of war and have no legitimate purpose beyond that.


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


Wickerthing said:


> And the fact that one looks exactly like the other but one is capable of full auto and the other of semi auto means little when one can easily squeeze and fire at an amazing pace with the AR15.  And now with these very large capacity clips, there is even less to distinguish one from the other.


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


Wickerthing said:


> When  I was in Vietnam in 68-69, clips beyond 20 rounds...


Hey...  stolen valor...
"Magazine" not "clip"
Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


Wickerthing said:


> But because they look similar, AR15's appeal to grown men who want to play soldier.  That makes them deadlier to be in all but the most mature hands.


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


Wickerthing said:


> The point I'm trying to make is that the differences between hunting rifles and weapons of war are blurred and someone who just wants to look COOL or a serious sportsman becomes blurred also.


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


Wickerthing said:


> Those are the clowns that I worry about.  The NRA types always accuse the left of wanting to take away ALL guns.  But, truth be told, the right has no limit to the types of weapons or the types of people they believe are perfectly okay to own them.


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 16, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Unfortunately, many times we discover that someone is a criminal or dangerously insane as a result of actions they've taken to expose themselves as such.


That's been the human condition for as long as there have been humans.

It's unlikely that it will ever change.

Maybe one day defensive weapons will become entirely non-lethal.  But I doubt that it will reduce murders any.  If defensive guns are ever supplanted by non-lethal weapons, murderers will just migrate to a different weapon to commit their killings with.




Wickerthing said:


> And typically, the NRA issues a statement about how the gun isn't the problem.


Well it isn't.  Murders are caused by murderers.  Murderers will use whatever tool they can get their hands on.




Wickerthing said:


> To me, if the reason some adult wants an AR is to make themselves a legend in their own mind, then that in and of itself is a warning sign.


I'm not sure what that legend in their own mind means.

I assume that most want one because they think it looks cool or they think it is effective for self defense.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 16, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Thank you for further demonstrating your ignoranc,e bigotry and irrational fear.
> 
> Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.
> 
> ...


I will never say a word with MAGA in it.  So, it's Clip.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 16, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Thank you for further demonstrating your ignoranc,e bigotry and irrational fear.
> 
> Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.
> 
> ...


Why be such an asshole?  Lookin' for something?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 17, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> I will never say a word with MAGA in it.  So, it's Clip.


Whatever you say, stolen valor.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 17, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Why be such an asshole?  Lookin' for something?


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry and irrational fear.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...


I need my machine gun to protect from the hoards of roving mad max gangs who want to eat me


Murica


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> I need my machine gun to protect from the hoards of roving mad max gangs who want to eat me


Not today - at least not where I live.
Tomorrow?  Maybe.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Not today - at least not where I live.
> Tomorrow?  Maybe.


That's why I plant claymores in the front yard


Murica


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> That's why I plant claymores in the front yard


Me too!


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Me too!


Kinderguardians!!!!!!!


You know my first issued weapon was a m 14.  Solid rifle....but heavy


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 18, 2022)

protectionist said:


> I dont even know what means, nor do I have any need to.  Looking it up, it appears to be either a very small fringe cult of sorts, or possibly an offshoot of that, maybe picked up by leftist activist provacateurs, and being used as a propaganda tool - and please don't tell me that the left doesn't do that, because I was a prime member of the left for 40 years, and I participated in some of those provacateur propaganda activities myself, before I came to my senses about 20 years ago.


Get real. 26 of the republicans candidates running in the the congressional elections are QAnon repugnants. The repug party is the party of idiots.


----------



## woodwork201 (Apr 18, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Huh ? If auto “magic”  weapons are no great thing, why does the military use them ? Dah. A full auto was banned because it gave one person the fire power of half a dozen soldiers with semi autos. Obviously, you were NEVER in the military during a shooting war . Ever been shot at by a full auto ? Ask a vet.


As is typical from you, your response is non-responsive.   What does any of that have to do with the post you're responding to?


----------



## woodwork201 (Apr 18, 2022)

Wow!  I was out a couple of weeks and this thread was on page 32 or so.  I got back this week and it's on 68.  So I've bounced around, 5 or 10 pages at a time, looking for the current state of discussion on Biden's gun  position - you all remember the title of the thread, right?  If not, just look at the top.

I didn't find more than 2 posts about guns from when I left until the latest.  It's time to clean it and continue something at least remotely related to the topic or just close it down as completely useless.


----------



## woodwork201 (Apr 18, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Thanks.  You've said it better than I could.
> 
> Unfortunately, many times we discover that someone is a criminal or dangerously insane as a result of actions they've taken to expose themselves as such. And typically, the NRA issues a statement about how the gun isn't the problem.   All of that "Thoughts and Prayers" nonsense.  To me, if the reason some adult wants an AR is to make themselves a legend in their own mind, then that in and of itself is a warning sign.  Too many fuckin' guns.



Yes, thankfully that's still how it works in the United States.  At least for now, we arrest people for their actions and not what someone thinks they'll do.

The problem with crime is not that we're failing to arrest criminals before they commit crimes; it's that we're failing to put them in prison after they commit crimes.


----------



## woodwork201 (Apr 18, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Do you mean Strict Scrutiny?


No, I don't mean strict scrutiny.  That's a made up term for a made up legal standard.  The Constitution must be taken absolutely.  Unfortunately it's not.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 19, 2022)

protectionist said:


> ideal body weight for 6'5" man is 185-210 lbs.  If you are 240, you're a fat slob, who needs to go on a diet.
> 
> View attachment 629671
> 
> In your warped mind, you remain correct. Sadly, only there.


In the same way Trump is an obese, lardo.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 19, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> The Republicans so far have not been seriously investigating anyone.


Ha ha
So repugnants can’t walk and chew gum ? They investigated Hillary, Birtherism and other fake news for years……nothing to show for it. I guess that’s a capitulation as to the incompetence of repugnants when in office. They do lead the league in just making up shit.


----------



## Open Bolt (Apr 19, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> They investigated Hillary, Birtherism and other fake news for years……


Not seriously.  The last serious Republican investigation was Ken Starr's investigation of Bill Clinton.




Dagosa said:


> They do lead the league in just making up shit.


In my experience, most untrue statements are progressive denials of reality.

But anyway, look, I get that you are upset about Mr. Trump, but I'm in a phase where general political discussion just bores me.

Do you have anything more to say about guns and the Second Amendment?

Are you getting ready for the Supreme Court to start enforcing the Constitution and preventing progressives from violating the Second Amendment all the time?

It should only be another three months before freedom is restored all over America.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 21, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Are you getting ready for the Supreme Court to start enforcing the Constitution and preventing progressives from violating the Second Amendment all the time?


What second amendment ? You should be more concerned with the first.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 21, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Not seriously. The last serious Republican investigation was Ken Starr's investigation of Bill Clinton.


Huh ? So you’re saying the right is too incompetent  to walk and chew gum. Passing tax cuts for the rich and starting recessions occupies so much time, they can’t prosecute malfeasance. Got it….


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 22, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Huh ? So you’re saying the right is too incompetent  to walk and chew gum. Passing tax cuts for the rich and starting recessions occupies so much time, they can’t prosecute malfeasance. Got it….


Yeah, so I guess the endless Benghazi probe and the Hillary's email probe and the mindless Birtherism nonsense and the Hunter obsession don't count?


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 23, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Yeah, so I guess the endless Benghazi probe and the Hillary's email probe and the mindless Birtherism nonsense and the Hunter obsession don't count?


Exactly 
They had to cut the Hillary email probe short when her polls went up as she embarrassed the repugs during the congressional hearings.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 23, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> In my experience, most untrue statements are progressive denials of reality.


Of course it’s only in your experience living in Oz with all the other Trump munchkins. Really ? Look at all the policies supported by libs vs those two, making up shit and white supremacy, supported by repugs.

Progressives are supported by the vast majority of educated people while repugs are supported by made up shit conspiracy theorists……..and Putin.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 23, 2022)

I used to wonder why anyone would buy anything that the obvious scoundrels in the GOP sell.  Then I started to watch the taped rallies that Trump held across the country and I saw the faces behind his podium and that mystery was immediately solved.  It looks like a casting for a remake of Green Acres.  Thousands of idiots with about 11 teeth between them.  Half of them look like Larry the Cable Guy and the other half look like Marjorie Trailer Queen clones.  Just a crowd of idiots waiting to be branded with a giant T.   And a bunch of Qanon whackos waiting for the return of JFK Jr. Elvis and Minnie Pearl.


----------



## Dagosa (Apr 23, 2022)

Wickerthing


Wickerthing said:


> I used to wonder why anyone would buy anything that the obvious scoundrels in the GOP sell.  Then I started to watch the taped rallies that Trump held across the country and I saw the faces behind his podium and that mystery was immediately solved.  It looks like a casting for a remake of Green Acres.  Thousands of idiots with about 11 teeth between them.  Half of them look like Larry the Cable Guy and the other half look like Marjorie Trailer Queen clones.  Just a crowd of idiots waiting to be branded with a giant T.   And a bunch of Qanon whackos waiting for the return of JFK Jr. Elvis and Minnie Pearl.


And that’s their good side.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 24, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> I used to wonder why anyone would buy anything that the obvious scoundrels in the GOP sell.  Then I started to watch the taped rallies that Trump held across the country and I saw the faces behind his podium and that mystery was immediately solved.


Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry, and irrational fear.


----------



## Wickerthing (Apr 24, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Thank you for further demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry, and irrational fear.


Silly Goose!


----------



## Who_Me? (May 26, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...


 
*"What if a whole gang of thugs show up in your front yard ? (let's say 10-15 of them)."*

You are a paranoid sob aren't you.


----------



## Failzero (May 26, 2022)

And Biden thinks Racism is a problem too


----------



## Failzero (May 26, 2022)

Not


Who_Me? said:


> *"What if a whole gang of thugs show up in your front yard ? (let's say 10-15 of them)."*
> 
> You are a paranoid sob aren't you.


Not if he lives in Portland or Seattle or where the Lawyer couple lived in Missouri


----------



## Who_Me? (May 26, 2022)

Failzero said:


> Not
> 
> Not if he lives in Portland or Seattle or where the Layer couple lived in Missouri


Call the police


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 26, 2022)

Who_Me? said:


> Call the police


If I live in the wrong city, the police won't come.
Now what?


----------



## Wickerthing (May 26, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Not seriously.  The last serious Republican investigation was Ken Starr's investigation of Bill Clinton.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Starr's investigation of Clinton was purely an act of vengeance to get back at him for taxing cigarettes.


----------



## Failzero (May 26, 2022)

Who_Me? said:


> Call the police


& wait how long again ?


----------



## Failzero (May 26, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> If I live in the wrong city, the police won't come
> Now what?


In the Ultra Rural area of Shasta County ( Southern Cascades )
Where my
Mountain home is it could take an hour easy for Sheriffs to arrive ( even if I say it’s Iranians )


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (May 26, 2022)

Who_Me? said:


> *"What if a whole gang of thugs show up in your front yard ? (let's say 10-15 of them)."*
> 
> You are a paranoid sob aren't you.


Democrats want more dead children.


----------



## Open Bolt (May 26, 2022)

Who_Me? said:


> *"What if a whole gang of thugs show up in your front yard ? (let's say 10-15 of them)."*
> You are a paranoid sob aren't you.


He's not paranoid in the least.




Who_Me? said:


> Call the police


Completely useless in the middle of a riot.


----------



## Open Bolt (May 26, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> Starr's investigation of Clinton was purely an act of vengeance


Of course.  And rightly so.  Look at the way the Democrats lynched Nixon and tried to lynch Reagan.

Hopefully when the Republicans take over next year, they will start by impeaching Barack Obama and then move on to impeaching Joe Biden.




Wickerthing said:


> to get back at him for taxing cigarettes.


No.  It had nothing to do with cigarettes.


----------



## protectionist (May 26, 2022)

Who_Me? said:


> *"What if a whole gang of thugs show up in your front yard ? (let's say 10-15 of them)."*
> 
> You are a paranoid sob aren't you.


Up until the day when 10-15 thugs show up in my front yard and threaten me, and then they get a look at my defender >> 




And when they show up in your front yard, you offer them lollipops.  

sob > stupid obnoxious bonehead.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 26, 2022)

Who_Me? said:


> *"What if a whole gang of thugs show up in your front yard ? (let's say 10-15 of them)."*
> 
> You are a paranoid sob aren't you.


In some neighborhoods and along the border that's not at all an unreal scenario.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 26, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Of course.  And rightly so.  Look at the way the Democrats lynched Nixon and tried to lynch Reagan.
> 
> Hopefully when the Republicans take over next year, they will start by impeaching Barack Obama and then move on to impeaching Joe Biden.
> 
> ...


He lives a vivid fantasy life.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 26, 2022)

Who_Me? said:


> Call the police


How well did that work out for the folks in Uvalde?  They even already had a cop on campus when this started.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 26, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Democrats want more dead children.


As many as it takes.


----------



## bripat9643 (May 27, 2022)

Who_Me? said:


> Call the police


The police only take 5 minutes to arrive when you can be murdered in 5 seconds.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (May 27, 2022)

Who_Me? said:


> Call the police


Yep someone will need to do the homicide report of your death.


----------



## Who_Me? (May 27, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> How well did that work out for the folks in Uvalde?  They even already had a cop on campus when this started.


OK so everyone and their mother is armed in Texas yet nobody stopped the mass murderer.  You goat ropers like to pretend you're fearless but your more likely to blow your own foot off than prevent a homicide.  Put the bullet back in your pocket Barney.


----------



## Who_Me? (May 27, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Up until the day when 10-15 thugs show up in my front yard and threaten me, and then they get a look at my defender >> View attachment 650330
> 
> And when they show up in your front yard, you offer them lollipops.
> 
> sob > stupid obnoxious bonehead.


God, it must be scary living in that paranoid head of yours.


----------



## maybelooking (May 27, 2022)

We see this over and over.  Leftists are very emotional.  NOT logical.   

Politicians LOVE THIS.  Make rash,  unreasonable,  emotional decisions in the heat of the moment.

Leftists are always ready to give away OTHER PEOPLES RIGHTS in the name of what ever emotional moment they find themselves in.


----------



## maybelooking (May 27, 2022)

Who_Me? said:


> OK so everyone and their mother is armed in Texas yet nobody stopped the mass murderer.  You goat ropers like to pretend you're fearless but your more likely to blow your own foot off than prevent a homicide.  Put the bullet back in your pocket Barney.


emotional,  illogical,  retarded rant.

nothing more.


----------



## surada (May 27, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...


Israel and Switzerland are very safe. Israel allows one gun and 50 bullets.


----------



## Who_Me? (May 27, 2022)

maybelooking said:


> emotional,  illogical,  retarded rant.
> 
> nothing more.


Yet true


----------



## maybelooking (May 27, 2022)

Who_Me? said:


> Yet true


completely false,  emotional,  uneducated,  rant attempting to illicit a similar response.

nothing more.


----------



## protectionist (May 27, 2022)

surada said:


> Israel and Switzerland are very safe. Israel allows one gun and 50 bullets.


UK has strict gun control. They also have far more violent crime than the US.

Worst cities in America for gun violence are Democrat cities (ex. San Francisco, Chicago, New York), with the strictest gun control laws.

PS - one gun and 50 bullets could kill 50 people.


----------



## surada (May 27, 2022)

protectionist said:


> UK has strict gun control. They also have far more violent crime than the US.
> 
> Worst cities in America for gun violence are Democrat cities (ex. San Francisco, Chicago, New York), with the strictest gun control laws.
> 
> PS - one gun and 50 bullets could kill 50 people.


Lol 😂😂😂 you're really ignorant.


----------



## protectionist (May 27, 2022)

Who_Me? said:


> God, it must be scary living in that paranoid head of yours.


Don't forget your lollipops on your next trip to the store. Shore up your will while you're at it.


----------



## protectionist (May 27, 2022)

surada said:


> Lol 😂😂😂 you're really ignorant.


Wow. what substance.  This is what FAILING to rebut a post looks like.


----------



## protectionist (May 27, 2022)

Who_Me? said:


> OK so everyone and their mother is armed in Texas yet nobody stopped the mass murderer.  You goat ropers like to pretend you're fearless but your more likely to blow your own foot off than prevent a homicide.  Put the bullet back in your pocket Barney.


How would anybody in that school stop the murderer WHEN THEY WERE ALL UNARMED ? (due to the school's idiotic GUN FREE ZONE policy).


----------



## surada (May 27, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Wow. what substance.  This is what FAILING to rebut a post looks like.


Sorry. I couldn't stop laughing. You really are an idiot.









						United Kingdom vs United States: Crime > Violent crime Facts and Stats
					

Murders, Murder rate per million people, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate, Murders per million people



					www.nationmaster.com


----------



## protectionist (May 27, 2022)

Who_Me? said:


> Call the police


They could pick up your body, and clean the blood & guts from your front yard.  Keep the vultures away.


----------



## JusticeHammer (May 27, 2022)

Who_Me? said:


> Call the police


You idiots want to defund  the police. Nope, I will grab my guns.


----------



## protectionist (May 27, 2022)

surada said:


> Sorry. I couldn't stop laughing. You really are an idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You must be looking in the mirror.

The violent crime rate in the UK is* 3,100 per 100,000*, and in the US it is 380 per 100,000 population. Brits are eight times more likely to be victims of violent crime than Americans.   No charge for the tutoring, student.









						UK Violent Crime Rate Eight Times Higher Than The US
					

According to the FBI, there were 1.2 million violent crimes committed in the US during 2011.  FBI — Violent Crime According to the UK government, there were 1.94 million violent crimes in the UK du…




					stevengoddard.wordpress.com


----------



## surada (May 27, 2022)

protectionist said:


> They could pick up your body, and clean the blood & guts from your front yard.  Keep the vultures away.


Did you cut and run?









						United Kingdom vs United States: Crime > Violent crime Facts and Stats
					

Murders, Murder rate per million people, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate, Murders per million people



					www.nationmaster.com


----------



## surada (May 27, 2022)

protectionist said:


> You must be looking in the mirror.
> 
> The violent crime rate in the UK is* 3,100 per 100,000*, and in the US it is 380 per 100,000 population. Brits are eight times more likely to be victims of violent crime than Americans.   No charge for the tutoring, student.
> 
> ...


Look at the homicide rate.









						United Kingdom vs United States: Crime > Violent crime Facts and Stats
					

Murders, Murder rate per million people, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate, Murders per million people



					www.nationmaster.com


----------



## protectionist (May 27, 2022)

All this anti-gun, anti-self-defense talk from liberal DUPES, only reinforces the fact that these idiots are getting people killed.


----------



## surada (May 27, 2022)

protectionist said:


> All this anti-gun, anti-self-defense talk from liberal DUPES, only reinforces the fact that these idiots are getting people killed.


Liberals didn't get school children killed. You're crazy.


----------



## Captain Caveman (May 27, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...


If you had banned AR-15's, there may have been a chance 19 kids and adults would have still had a face and skull.

So there's your FACTS, clown.


----------



## protectionist (May 27, 2022)

surada said:


> Did you cut and run?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


NO, I stand my ground with a 12 gauge SHOTGUN, loaded with 00 Buckshot + a .380 semi-automatic, to add to that. You liberals are the cutters & runners.


----------



## protectionist (May 27, 2022)

surada said:


> Liberals didn't get school children killed. You're crazy.


YOU are crazy and ignorant. The school is a GUN FREE ZONE.  You don't even know what that means do you, ignorant liberal ?  It means by having a gun free zone, you are giving the shooter a green light to come in and shoot.  Maybe you could send him a printed invitation.  Duh!

You don't know how detached from reality you are.

Since 1953, 94% of mass shootings have been in GUN FREE ZONES. Think about it.


----------



## protectionist (May 27, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> If you had banned AR-15's, there may have been a chance 19 kids and adults would have still had a face and skull.
> 
> So there's your FACTS, clown.


This is how stupid liberals are.  The AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle that fires one shot with each pull of the trigger.  It is not more lethal than any handgun (which account for far more killings than the AR-15 or any other rifle.

The killer could have done what he did with a handgun, just as easily.

So there's your FACTS, clown.


----------



## protectionist (May 27, 2022)

surada said:


> Look at the homicide rate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


YOU look at it >>>









						UK Violent Crime Rate Eight Times Higher Than The US
					

According to the FBI, there were 1.2 million violent crimes committed in the US during 2011.  FBI — Violent Crime According to the UK government, there were 1.94 million violent crimes in the UK du…




					stevengoddard.wordpress.com
				




Also, 90% of the US homicide rate, is from ghettos in Democrat cities, with strict gun control laws, where the victims were unarmed and defenseless.


----------



## protectionist (May 27, 2022)

They don't even try to hide their lunacy about guns. This is how deluded they are.  They are like people driving a car, who desperately need to drive east, and they're driving west at 100 MPH.


----------



## Briss (May 27, 2022)

protectionist said:


> This is how stupid liberals are.  The AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle that fires one shot with each pull of the trigger.  It is not more lethal than any handgun (which account for far more killings than the AR-15 or any other rifle.
> 
> The killer could have done what he did with a handgun, just as easily.
> 
> So there's your FACTS, clown.


Their overlords told them to bay at AR-15s.  And like good hound dogs, there they go . . .


----------



## protectionist (May 27, 2022)

Briss said:


> Their overlords told them to bay at AR-15s.  And like good hound dogs, there they go . . .


Mass hypnosis of a sort.


----------



## Who_Me? (May 27, 2022)

protectionist said:


> How would anybody in that school stop the murderer WHEN THEY WERE ALL UNARMED ? (due to the school's idiotic GUN FREE ZONE policy).


Gramma got shot earlier and the shooter plowed into a ditch, got out with a rifle and a bag of ammo and nobody saw or heard anything?


----------



## Captain Caveman (May 27, 2022)

protectionist said:


> This is how stupid liberals are.  The AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle that fires one shot with each pull of the trigger.  It is not more lethal than any handgun (which account for far more killings than the AR-15 or any other rifle.
> 
> The killer could have done what he did with a handgun, just as easily.
> 
> So there's your FACTS, clown.


Here's another fact bozo, I'm a UK conservative. The cops are wanting DNA to identify the kids because your love of guns blasted their faces off, retard.


----------



## Failzero (May 27, 2022)

Who_Me? said:


> OK so everyone and their mother is armed in Texas yet nobody stopped the mass murderer.  You goat ropers like to pretend you're fearless but your more likely to blow your own foot off than prevent a homicide.  Put the bullet back in your pocket Barney.


Hmmm all the Carrying Parents ( And Unarmed ) arrived to Dozens of Armed Cops / BP / State Police... Surrounding the School waiting (When parents threatened to go in themselves they were Cuffed Threatened with arrest & shown Tazers ...


----------



## Failzero (May 27, 2022)

Who_Me? said:


> Gramma got shot earlier and the shooter plowed into a ditch, got out with a rifle and a bag of ammo and nobody saw or heard anything?


People at nearby Funeral Home saw & approached , he Shot at them so They called Cops


----------



## Open Bolt (May 27, 2022)

Who_Me? said:


> OK so everyone and their mother is armed in Texas yet nobody stopped the mass murderer.


Unfortunately leftist polices prevent teachers from keeping rifles in their classrooms so they can defend their students.




Who_Me? said:


> You goat ropers like to pretend you're fearless but your more likely to blow your own foot off than prevent a homicide.  Put the bullet back in your pocket Barney.


Nonsense.




Who_Me? said:


> God, it must be scary living in that paranoid head of yours.


No such paranoia.  It is perfectly plausible that an American might need to defend against a large pack of violent progressives.




Who_Me? said:


> Yet true


Not really.


----------



## Open Bolt (May 27, 2022)

surada said:


> Lol 😂😂😂 you're really ignorant.


I saw nothing inaccurate in his posts.  And you haven't pointed out any inaccuracies in his posts.




surada said:


> Sorry. I couldn't stop laughing. You really are an idiot.


Childish name-calling is a poor substitute for a sound argument.




surada said:


> Liberals didn't get school children killed. You're crazy.


Actually they did.

It is leftist policies that prevent teachers from keeping rifles in their classrooms so they can defend their students.


----------



## Open Bolt (May 27, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> If you had banned AR-15's, there may have been a chance 19 kids and adults would have still had a face and skull.


Nonsense.  Being fired from an AR-15 does not make a bullet any deadlier than if it had been fired from a different kind of rifle.




Captain Caveman said:


> So there's your FACTS, clown.


No.  There are never any facts in your posts.  All you ever have to offer is childish name-calling.




Captain Caveman said:


> The cops are wanting DNA to identify the kids because your love of guns blasted their faces off, retard.


His love of guns did no such thing.

Like I said, all you have to offer is childish name-calling.


----------



## Wickerthing (May 27, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Of course.  And rightly so.  Look at the way the Democrats lynched Nixon and tried to lynch Reagan.
> 
> Hopefully when the Republicans take over next year, they will start by impeaching Barack Obama and then move on to impeaching Joe Biden.
> 
> ...


You should only comment on things you understand.  Otherwise it just reveals your ignorance.


----------



## Open Bolt (May 27, 2022)

Wickerthing said:


> You should only comment on things you understand.  Otherwise it just reveals your ignorance.


I always understand the subjects that I comment on.


----------



## Captain Caveman (May 27, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Nonsense.  Being fired from an AR-15 does not make a bullet any deadlier than if it had been fired from a different kind of rifle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll tell you something, if you go on a UK forum, it's civil. On a US forum, you guys name call one another like kids in a playground. So I treat you guys in the same manner as you treat one another, and you don't like it. Well, what I suggest is, if you guys stop, then I will. But until then.......f*** off.


----------



## protectionist (May 28, 2022)

Who_Me? said:


> Gramma got shot earlier and the shooter plowed into a ditch, got out with a rifle and a bag of ammo and nobody saw or heard anything?


What does that have to do with the post you quoted ?


----------



## protectionist (May 28, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> I'll tell you something, if you go on a UK forum, it's civil. On a US forum, you guys name call one another like kids in a playground. So I treat you guys in the same manner as you treat one another, and you don't like it. Well, what I suggest is, if you guys stop, then I will. But until then.......f*** off.


How people talk has more to do with the level of moderation.  Moderators in this forum are unusually lenient.  In other forums, there is less tolerance for personal attacking, and thus, there is far less of it.

I suspect that the UK forums you refer too probably are well moderated, and thus the same as well moderated forums in the US. It is a mod thing, not a nation thing.


----------



## protectionist (May 28, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Here's another fact bozo, I'm a UK conservative. The cops are wanting DNA to identify the kids because your love of guns blasted their faces off, retard.


No, FOOL.  My love of guns did not blast their faces off. Your hatred of guns kept guns away from the school staff, thereby giving the green light to the shooter to go into a place where he knew everyone was unarmed, and could offer no resistance.
Gun free zones are what is killing kids in schools, and you don't sound the slightest bit "conservative"


Open Bolt said:


> I saw nothing inaccurate in his posts.  And you haven't pointed out any inaccuracies in his posts.
> Childish name-calling is a poor substitute for a sound argument.
> Actually they did.
> It is leftist policies that prevent teachers from keeping rifles in their classrooms so they can defend their students.


Or handguns.  Are they even allowed to have a pepper spray ?


----------



## Captain Caveman (May 28, 2022)

protectionist said:


> No, FOOL.  My love of guns did not blast their faces off. Your hatred of guns kept guns away from the school staff, thereby giving the green light to the shooter to go into a place where he knew everyone was unarmed, and could offer no resistance.
> Gun free zones are what is killing kids in schools, and you don't sound the slightest bit "conservative"


Every public place/space in the UK is a gun free zone, so going by your logic, thousands are being shot, whereas, your logic is polar opposite to reality. 

In the general elections, I've voted Tory for over 30 years, once for Labour and once for UKIP. Every other time, Tory. I shoot shotguns, I take my lads (young adults) down to the North Lakes shoot, about every couple of years. As we don't live in fear, people don't bother much with guns.





__





						Clay Pigeon Shooting in the Lake District
					

Clay Pigeon Shooting at the best locations in the Lake District. Blast away as Clays fly through the sky.




					activitiesinlakeland.co.uk


----------



## Who_Me? (May 28, 2022)

protectionist said:


> What does that have to do with the post you quoted ?


My point was nobody reacted and we all know that everybody in Texas carries.


----------



## protectionist (May 28, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Every public place/space in the UK is a gun free zone, so going by your logic, thousands are being shot, whereas, your logic is polar opposite to reality.
> 
> In the general elections, I've voted Tory for over 30 years, once for Labour and once for UKIP. Every other time, Tory. I shoot shotguns, I take my lads (young adults) down to the North Lakes shoot, about every couple of years. As we don't live in fear, people don't bother much with guns.
> 
> ...


You can crow all you want about how things are in the UK, but since I don't live there, I couldn't care less what happens there.  But just for the sake of being informative, going by my logic, you all would be better off if you had zero gun free zones.  Why ? Because your violent crime rate is astronomical compared to ours.  

Wonder why that is ? One reason is because your criminals don't have to think about good guys with guns being in all those gun free zones you think so highly of.  If they did, your violent crime rate might be as low as ours.

With regard to your not living in fear, we don't either. We have and carry guns to eliminate that fear.  Ad that includes when the bad guy comes at us with brass knuckles, or a club, or a knife.  That's when your fear starts.  Hopefully your life doesn't end there.  I think you're just being irresponsible about your safety.

PS - In the US, since 1953, 94% of all mass shootings have occured in gun free zones.  Since 2000, ALL of them have.


----------



## Who_Me? (May 28, 2022)

protectionist said:


> You can crow all you want about how things are in the UK, but since I don't live there, I couldn't care less what happens there.  But just for the sake of being informative, going by my logic, you all would be better off if you had zero gun free zones.  Why ? Because your violent crime rate is astronomical compared to ours.
> 
> Wonder why that is ? One reason is because your criminals don't have to think about good guys with guns being in all those gun free zones you think so highly of.  If they did, your violent crime rate might be as low as ours.
> 
> ...





Open Bolt said:


> Unfortunately leftist polices prevent teachers from keeping rifles in their classrooms so they can defend their students.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are a paranoid, sick, twisted minded, gun toting, dolt.  You're the poster child for strong background checks.


----------



## Open Bolt (May 28, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Or handguns.  Are they even allowed to have a pepper spray ?


Handguns won't do much against body armor.  Plus the portability of a handgun will not be required because the gun safe will be right there in the classroom.

Better that teachers keep rifles in their classrooms.

But to answer your question, right now progressives ensure that teachers are helpless and completely disarmed.


-------------------------------------------------


Who_Me? said:


> You are a paranoid, sick, twisted minded, gun toting, dolt.  You're the poster child for strong background checks.


I do not share the common progressive opinion that freedom is sick and twisted.

Like other Americans, I find freedom to be a good thing.


----------



## woodwork201 (May 29, 2022)

bripat9643 said:


> The police only take 5 minutes to arrive when you can be murdered in 5 seconds.


When seconds count, the police are hiding down the hallway.


----------



## woodwork201 (May 29, 2022)

surada said:


> Israel and Switzerland are very safe. Israel allows one gun and 50 bullets.


What difference does that make?  If I have one gun or a hundred guns, All of these shooters only shoot one at a time.  One was enough for the shooter so that idea does nothing to stop shootings.

50 bullets or 50000 bullets - when someone sets out to kill babies for the Democrats and the socialists, there are already laws against murder so do you think a law restricting bullet possession to 50 would matter?


----------



## surada (May 29, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> What difference does that make?  If I have one gun or a hundred guns, All of these shooters only shoot one at a time.  One was enough for the shooter so that idea does nothing to stop shootings.
> 
> 50 bullets or 50000 bullets - when someone sets out to kill babies for the Democrats and the socialists, there are already laws against murder so do you think a law restricting bullet possession to 50 would matter?


You're sick.


----------



## woodwork201 (May 29, 2022)

surada said:


> Liberals didn't get school children killed. You're crazy.


All school shooters to date have been leftists.  Murdering children has always been a left-wing thing.  Yes, liberals get school children killed.


----------



## woodwork201 (May 29, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> If you had banned AR-15's, there may have been a chance 19 kids and adults would have still had a face and skull.
> 
> So there's your FACTS, clown.


Idiot.  What about every other gun in the world that the shooter could have used?  The shooter reloaded at least 5 times.  He could have killed far more with a 5-shot revolver and a pocket full of speedloaders.  The model of the gun is not the problem.  Guns are  not the problem.  Leftist culture is the problem.


----------



## woodwork201 (May 29, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Here's another fact bozo, I'm a UK conservative. The cops are wanting DNA to identify the kids because your love of guns blasted their faces off, retard.


A 223 didn't blast their faces off.  DNA is still the best and most certain identification.  Dead people are actually harder to identify than you think.  Have you seen dead relatives?


----------



## surada (May 29, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> All school shooters to date have been leftists.  Murdering children has always been a left-wing thing.  Yes, liberals get school children killed.


No they haven't. Read their manifestos.


----------



## woodwork201 (May 29, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Handguns won't do much against body armor.  Plus the portability of a handgun will not be required because the gun safe will be right there in the classroom.
> 
> Better that teachers keep rifles in their classrooms.
> 
> ...


Two to center of mass, one to the head.  Repeat until target has stopped flinching.  A handgun is not ideal against armor but there are always openings in armor.


----------



## woodwork201 (May 29, 2022)

surada said:


> No they haven't. Read their manifestos.


Name a single school shooter who was a conservative.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 29, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Name a single school shooter who was a conservative.



That's not the important bit.  It's the Conservative POLITICIANS who ensure that there will be another one in a few days.


----------



## woodwork201 (May 29, 2022)

surada said:


> You're sick.


Then you admit that limiting guns to one and bullets to fifty does absolutely nothing to ensure the safety of anyone.  Glad to hear it.


----------



## woodwork201 (May 31, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> That's not the important bit.  It's the Conservative POLITICIANS who ensure that there will be another one in a few days.



You'll have to explain how that is so.  It is Biden who openly states that he's actually against hardening schools.  School shootings are by Democrats for Democrats.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (May 31, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> You'll have to explain how that is so.  It is Biden who openly states that he's actually against hardening schools.  School shootings are by Democrats for Democrats.



You guys sound positively unhinged.  You would rather see schools turned into armed encampments than consider giving up your guns.

Your priorities are mixed up.  I'd go so far to say that your priorities are psychopathic.


----------



## Hollie (May 31, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> You guys sound positively unhinged.  You would rather see schools turned into armed encampments than consider giving up your guns.
> 
> Your priorities are mixed up.  I'd go so far to say that your priorities are psychopathic.


What would be served by responsible, legal gun owners giving up their property?

I'd go so far as to say your priorities are misplaced, irrelevant and absurd.


----------



## Dagosa (May 31, 2022)

Failzero said:


> In the Ultra Rural area of Shasta County ( Southern Cascades )
> Where my
> Mountain home is it could take an hour easy for Sheriffs to arrive ( even if I say it’s Iranians )


You get a permit and a firearm and a dog, or two.

The last thing you do is vote for anyone who supports the distribution of the most dangerous weapons to unqualified peoples. Geesus, that makes you less safe.

I live in the woods on a mountain where the roads get so slippery in the winter, no one gets in or out easily. That includes criminals. So you’re less likely to be confronted by criminals. Still, we’re all armed and have big dogs. That doesn’t mean we support anyone having unlicensed guns and dogs.


----------



## Dagosa (May 31, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> You guys sound positively unhinged.  You would rather see schools turned into armed encampments than consider giving up your guns.
> 
> Your priorities are mixed up.  I'd go so far to say that your priorities are psychopathic.


Yup
But Gee, no one has to give up anything. I’m very well armed. But I’m permitted and don’t need an assault weapon. If “anyone” wants  one, like a full auto, you license and register it federally.


----------



## Failzero (May 31, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> You get a permit and a firearm and a dog, or two.
> 
> The last thing you do is vote for anyone who supports the distribution of the most dangerous weapons to unqualified peoples. Geesus, that makes you less safe.
> 
> I live in the woods on a mountain where the roads get so slippery in the winter, no one gets in or out easily. That includes criminals. So you’re less likely to be confronted by criminals. Still, we’re all armed and have big dogs. That doesn’t mean we support anyone having unlicensed guns and dogs.


My Mountain Home (North Eastern Shasta County /  Ultra rural southern Cascades ) is surrounded by Cartel Henchmen / Neckbeard Local Freak Pot grows and Meth cooker/ Part time pot trimmers giving growing a go types ( If I wanted to live where my nearest neighbor was 7.1 miles away It would be the Montana prairie or Alaska but not my region of Far Nor Cal anymore . Yes I have a California CCW but my 15 pound Female Dwarf White Poodle passed away so I’m currently dogless


----------



## Batcat (May 31, 2022)

JGalt said:


> Clinton did. Remember the AWB in '94?
> 
> Federal Assault Weapons Ban - Wikipedia


I remember all the regualr shooters at my range legally buying AR-15s and high cap magazines during that ban.

The manufacturers of “assault weapons” like the AR-15 removed a couple of items from their product and it no longer was banned. 

High cap magazines manufactured before a certain date were legal but very expensive.

The ban actually made the AR-15 popular.


----------



## JGalt (May 31, 2022)

Batcat said:


> I remember all the regualr shooters at my range legally buying AR-15s and high cap magazines during that ban.
> 
> The manufacturers of “assault weapons” like the AR-15 removed a couple of items from their product and it no longer was banned.
> 
> ...



I lived in Texas during that time. Everyone was buying an SKS or a ban-compliant AK-47 with the bayonet lug cut off and one of those goofy thumbhole stocks. It was like the Eastern Bloc countries saw a market and flooded this country with millions of SKS, AK, and Mosin-Nagant rifles. Something like 25 million SKS's were imported during the ban.


----------



## jbander (May 31, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...


Kiss off , we can regulate guns anyway we see fit as a nation and since everyone except you gun bubbas want to do just that , then that in a democracy is the reason it should happen,. If I could write the law, I would exclude every one of you gun Bubbas from owning guns. Every one of you nut jobs in my neighborhood are dangerous as far as I'm concerned. Your chance of shooting yourself in the foot or shooting someone else, will happen way sooner than you will ever use that gun to protect anything. I don't even want you people around.


----------



## jbander (May 31, 2022)

Batcat said:


> I remember all the regualr shooters at my range legally buying AR-15s and high cap magazines during that ban.
> 
> The manufacturers of “assault weapons” like the AR-15 removed a couple of items from their product and it no longer was banned.
> 
> ...


No the fact that it is the best killing machine made it popular with you Gun bubbas , you think it expresses the size of your cock to the world and that is why you buy them.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 1, 2022)

jbander said:


> No the fact that it is the best killing machine made it popular with you Gun bubbas , you think it expresses the size of your cock to the world and that is why you buy them.


Anti-gun people have this odd obsession with the size of cocks. They often also say that people who drive big pickup trucks have tiny cocks. 

That leads me to believe they are the one who have tiny ones.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 1, 2022)

jbander said:


> Kiss off , we can regulate guns anyway we see fit as a nation and since everyone except you gun bubbas want to do just that , then that in a democracy is the reason it should happen,. If I could write the law, I would exclude every one of you gun Bubbas from owning guns. Every one of you nut jobs in my neighborhood are dangerous as far as I'm concerned. Your chance of shooting yourself in the foot or shooting someone else, will happen way sooner than you will ever use that gun to protect anything. I don't even want you people around.


If you consider every gun owner in your neighborhood as a “nut job” who is dangerous to you, it makes me wonder if you are a criminal. 

Criminals dislike civilian gun owners for good reason. It makes their workplace dangerous.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 1, 2022)

Batcat said:


> I remember all the regular shooters at my range legally buying AR-15s and high cap magazines during that ban.
> The manufacturers of “assault weapons” like the AR-15 removed a couple of items from their product and it no longer was banned.
> High cap magazines manufactured before a certain date were legal but very expensive.


And really the magazines were only very expensive for the last few years of the ban.  For most of the ban they were more expensive, but not dramatically so.




Batcat said:


> The ban actually made the AR-15 popular.


Yep.  Progressives always screw up and their proposals always backfire.




Batcat said:


> Anti-gun people have this odd obsession with the size of cocks. They often also say that people who drive big pickup trucks have tiny cocks.
> That leads me to believe they are the one who have tiny ones.


Yes.  Progressive women often tell me that the reason why they cheat on their progressive husbands is because progressive men have tiny penises.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 1, 2022)

jbander said:


> Kiss off, we can regulate guns anyway we see fit as a nation and since everyone except you gun bubbas want to do just that, then that in a democracy is the reason it should happen.


Interesting fantasy.  But in the real world you can't do anything without the NRA's permission.




jbander said:


> If I could write the law, I would exclude every one of you gun Bubbas from owning guns. Every one of you nut jobs in my neighborhood are dangerous as far as I'm concerned. Your chance of shooting yourself in the foot or shooting someone else, will happen way sooner than you will ever use that gun to protect anything. I don't even want you people around.


If you could write the law, you'd be whining that every single one of your laws was struck down as unconstitutional.

The thing with progressives is, while you all wish that you could be the next Stalin, the American people will never let you do that to us.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 1, 2022)

JGalt said:


> I lived in Texas during that time. Everyone was buying an SKS or a ban-compliant AK-47 with the bayonet lug cut off and one of those goofy thumbhole stocks. It was like the Eastern Bloc countries saw a market and flooded this country with millions of SKS, AK, and Mosin-Nagant rifles. Something like 25 million SKS's were imported during the ban.


I remember a co-worker who was into AK-47 clones. They work well but are not quite as adaptable as the AR-15. 






						Best AR-15 Upgrades | Common AR-15 Mods | Wing Tactical
					






					www.wingtactical.com
				




The ban actually made such semi-auto rifles popular. It even helped semi-auto pistols become more popular than revolvers.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 1, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> The last thing you do is vote for anyone who supports the distribution of the most dangerous weapons to unqualified peoples. Geesus, that makes you less safe.


It's not like an AR-15 is anything like a "most dangerous weapon".  That pistol grip doesn't make a gun become any more dangerous.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 1, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> And really the magazines were only very expensive for the last few years of the ban.  For most of the ban they were more expensive, but not dramatically so.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




My experience is that progressive guys bullshit a lot abut how many women they have bedded. Has something to do with their insecurity. That may be due to the fact that progressive men have small penises.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 1, 2022)

Hollie said:


> What would be served by responsible, legal gun owners giving up their property?



Fewer guns that will be stolen or otherwise wind up in the wrong hands.  Ergo fewer mass shootings.



Hollie said:


> I'd go so far as to say your priorities are misplaced, irrelevant and absurd.



No other country in the developed world lives like this.  The only reason WE do is because of *your hobby.*

Personally I'm getting tired of living with your hobby.  And given that many of you are Conservatives and good Christians as well I am REALLY tired of you guys trying to pass your hobby off as something other than just your hobby.

Most of you will never save anyone.  Most of you will never do ANYTHING of value to society with your gun.  So drop all the canards and drop all the John Wayne Fantasies.

Take responsibility for your hobby.  It's going to get expensive and require more paperwork.

You have a choice:  meet civilization half-way and be willing to have your hobby registered and tracked or lose your hobby altogether.

But make no mistake:  YOUR HOBBY is what will wind up changing in the long run.  Maybe not today, maybe not in this year.  But the more of these horrors that are visited on us the more you guys are going to have to consider what YOU are going to give up.

We've already given up safety and security in public places for you.  *What are you going to give up for us?*


----------



## Batcat (Jun 1, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Fewer guns that will be stolen or otherwise wind up in the wrong hands.  Ergo fewer mass shootings.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why should we give up anything?

We give you an inch and you push for a mile.

You might consider stopping gangs from having shootouts in places like New York City. There are plenty of laws on the books you can use to stop this activity. Instead you try to take guns away from honest people.

Watch the video at this link.

Harrowing video shows wild broad-daylight shooting in Brooklyn ):

We give you laws you don’t bother to enforce. How about no more laws until you follow through on using the ones you have.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 1, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Why should we give up anything?


We shouldn't.
There's absolutely no rational reason to agree to any of the unnecessary and ineffective restrictions they want to lay on the exercise of the right o keep and bear arms.
Not one inch.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 1, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> We shouldn't.
> There's absolutely no rational reason to agree to any of the unnecessary and ineffective restrictions they want to lay on the exercise of the right o keep and bear arms.
> Not one inch.


When you are getting shoot outs in the middle of the day in New York City you would think anyone caught illegally carrying a gun would be in big trouble. 









						I-Team: Jail Time for Gun Convicts Varies Between Boroughs in NYC
					

There are disparities in gun-crime prosecution rates and sentencings from borough to borough across New York City, according to data provided to the I-Team from the Division of Criminal Justice Services and all five New York City district attorney offices. Someone prosecuted for carrying an...




					www.nbcnewyork.com
				




***snip***

_The I-Team looked at data from all city gun arrests in 2016 under laws 265.03, 265.04 and 265.19 – laws which require a minimum sentence of 3.5 years in prison. The information only reflects cases that made it before a judge after the NYPD made the felony gun arrest. Travelers unfamiliar with New York’s gun laws arrested at LaGuardia airport for illegal possession of a firearm is not reflected in the data.

The data reveals that, with the exception of Manhattan, a majority of defendants arrested in the other four boroughs got lesser sentences or plea deals._


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 1, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> No other country in the developed world lives like this.  The only reason WE do is because of *your hobby.*


Wrong.  Gun availability has little impact on homicide rates.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Personally I'm getting tired of living with your hobby.


Too bad for you.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> And given that many of you are Conservatives and good Christians as well I am REALLY tired of you guys trying to pass your hobby off as something other than just your hobby.


Again, too bad for you.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Most of you will never save anyone.  Most of you will never do ANYTHING of value to society with your gun.


That's our choice.  If you won't bother to arm yourself, why should we stick our necks out to defend you?




Cardinal Carminative said:


> So drop all the canards and drop all the John Wayne Fantasies.


Freedom is neither a canard nor a fantasy.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> You have a choice:  meet civilization half-way and be willing to have your hobby registered and tracked or lose your hobby altogether.


No we don't.  And we choose neither.

What we choose instead is: absolutely no new gun laws no matter how much that makes you whine.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> But make no mistake:  YOUR HOBBY is what will wind up changing in the long run.  Maybe not today, maybe not in this year.  But the more of these horrors that are visited on us the more you guys are going to have to consider what YOU are going to give up.


Progressives sure do like to fantasize about violating people's civil liberties.

But no, your disgusting fantasies will never happen in reality.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> We've already given up safety and security in public places for you.


No you haven't.  As previously noted, gun availability has little impact on homicide rates.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> *What are you going to give up for us?*


Absolutely nothing whatsoever.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 1, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Wrong.  Gun availability has little impact on homicide rates.



You know people might take you seriously if just ONE reality-based talking point would make it into your remit.




Open Bolt said:


> Too bad for you.



I know.  But at the end of the day my hobby isn't helping kill children like yours is.



Open Bolt said:


> Again, too bad for you.



I understand.  Thank you for agreeing that many people in your movement are disgusting hypocrites.


Open Bolt said:


> That's our choice.  If you won't bother to arm yourself, why should we stick our necks out to defend you?



You aren't defending me.  Statistics show you will NEVER defend me.  In fact the odds are that you will hurt yourself or someone in your family LONG before you'll stop any crimes or defend anyone.



Open Bolt said:


> Freedom is neither a canard nor a fantasy.



What would YOU know about freedom?  You live in SLAVERY to your utter terror.  You need guns all around you because EVERYTHING is terrifying to you and the only way to deal with ANYTHING in your book is to be able to SHOOT IT.

You are the least free person I have met in a while.



Open Bolt said:


> No you haven't.  As previously noted, gun availability has little impact on homicide rates.


Wrong.



Open Bolt said:


> Absolutely nothing whatsoever.



Good.    You are admitting you guys are hypocrites and sociopaths.  I guess that leaves the rest of us with no choice but take your hobby away from you.

Hypocrite sociopaths are NOT people who should have guns.

You deserve NOTHING.  If you don't play well with society *you lose your rights.  

That's the deal.*

Enjoy!


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 1, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Why should we give up anything?



Because we are a society.  And not everyone likes you or your hobby.



Batcat said:


> We give you an inch and you push for a mile.



And what, praytell, have any of you EVER HAD TO GIVE UP in regards to guns?  Seriously...YOU GET EVERYTHING!  Why can't you guys just sit back and enjoy your win.  Turn on the tube, watch some kids getting gunned down and sip a cold one.



Batcat said:


> We give you laws you don’t bother to enforce. How about no more laws until you follow through on using the ones you have.



America has the highest rate of imprisonment of any developed nation on earth.  So your "hypothesis" doesn't hold water.

If all those laws don't work, I guess the only other thing is to take EVERYONE'S GUNS.

So either you give a little or you lose EVERYTHING.

And you will unless you learn to get along with the large number of Americans who DON'T enjoy your hobby and are kind of tired of watching kids die in school.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 1, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> So either you give a little or you lose EVERYTHING.


Sounds like a threat.
Stack up.  Try it.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 1, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Because we are a society.  And not everyone likes you or your hobby.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Realistically you don’t have the votes to get what you wish so your threats mean little.

Try reading this article from _The Alantic_ and you might learn something. For one thing the NRA donations are not large enough to buy politicians. It is the voters that stop draconian gun legislation.





__





						Why Can’t Democrats Pass Gun Control?
					





					www.msn.com
				




***snip***

_The narrative is familiar: Gun-control measures can never pass, because the NRA forbids it. The group buys off all the politicians with its incredible campaign spending. Then it owns their votes, and gets everything it wants. But the reality is starkly different.

In the 2020 election cycle, the NRA contributed less than $1 million directly to candidates. That made it the 996th-largest donor for the cycle, according to OpenSecrets. The group spent about $5.4 million on lobbying in that same time frame, which put it a bit higher, at 169th. Since 2012, the NRA’s highest contribution ranking has been 294th, and its highest lobbying ranking has been 85th._

***snip***

_
And it isn’t because of the filibuster, either. The Democrats can’t get bare majorities to support their top gun priorities. They haven’t passed an assault-weapons ban since retaking the House in 2018. They’re unlikely to pass one or even bring it up for a vote before the 2022 midterms. And even if it passed the House, it wouldn’t pass the Senate.

The deadlock isn’t the result of the NRA paying off politicians to vote against the wishes of their constituents. It’s much simpler than that: Many people in this country own guns, and millions of them are dedicated voters. And they are what now stand in the way of new gun laws._


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 1, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Sounds like a threat.



It surely is that very thing.  Assuming you don't bring something MEANINGFUL to the table (in other words not more of your fucked up fantasies of turning America into an armed encampment where everything needs an armed guard).

I honestly don't know what you want to DEFEND if that is your vision for America.  It sounds like hell on earth.  And that's what you WANT?



M14 Shooter said:


> Stack up.  Try it.



Given the track record of most gun owners (studies keep showing that guns in the home are more dangerous for people in the home than any would-be attackers) I'll take those odds.  

Also:  if the Gov't wanted your guns you wouldn't have much of a choice.  Based on your handle here I assume you are more than familiar with the kind of hardware the US has available to its military.  You will lose.  Sorry to break it to you.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 1, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Realistically you don’t have the votes to get what you wish so your threats mean little.



I dunno.  Previously I would have agreed with you, but not so sure now.



Batcat said:


> Try reading this article from MSNBC and you might learn something. For one thing the NRA donations are not large enough to buy politicians.



Is that why the legislators who get the most from the NRA *don't ever  pass any meaningful legislation that goes against the NRA's wishes?*



Batcat said:


> It is the voters that stop draconian gun legislation.



Sure, sure.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 1, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> I'll take those odds.


No you won't
You wont be anywhere near it.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 1, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> I dunno.  Previously I would have agreed with you, but not so sure now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You guys don’t propose “meaningful” legislation….you just try to pass each baby step to total bans and confiscation


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 1, 2022)

2aguy said:


> You guys don’t propose “meaningful” legislation….you just try to pass each baby step to total bans and confiscation


And then they tell us that if t we don't give them another inch, they're going to take it all.

Funny thing is they never consider the millions of people they will kill - and wont be anywhere to be found when it comes time to volunteer to be one of them.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 1, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> And then they tell us that if t we don't give them another inch, they're going to take it all.
> 
> Funny thing is they never consider the millions of people they will kill - and wont be anywhere to be found when it comes time to volunteer to be one of them.




Yep…..give us the gun law we want now….or we will take all of them

Then……give us the next gun law we want or we will take all of them

Then…..give us the next gun law we want or we will take all of them

The proper response to the first demamd

F**k off and die


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 1, 2022)

2aguy said:


> You guys don’t propose “meaningful” legislation….you just try to pass each baby step to total bans and confiscation



You guys live in such abject terror of losing your guns.

You guys are the least free Americans I've ever met.  You live in abject terror of EVERYONE ELSE and you further fret non-stop that someone's going to take your guns.

I actually kind of feel sorry for you.  I just wish your hobby didn't help people kill little kids so easily.

All you ever propose are ways to make America more like your demented horror show.  That's YOUR fear, my friend.  YOUR malfunction.

YOU have turned America into a hellscape.  And it isn't enough for you.  You want MORE and MORE and MORE guns.  That's your answer to everything.  You live in TERROR and you only know one way to deal with it:  THE GUN.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 1, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> No you won't
> You wont be anywhere near it.



I saw the mighty power of the Gravy Seals on Jan 6th.  Needless to say I wasn't as terrified as the advertisements led me to believe I would be.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 1, 2022)

2aguy said:


> F**k off and die



That's your answer to every problem isn't it?  You have to kill it.

You'll have to get a higher capacity magazine, my friend.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 1, 2022)

2aguy said:


> The proper response to the first demamd
> F**k off and die


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 1, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> I saw the mighty power of the Gravy Seals on Jan 6th.  Needless to say I wasn't as terrified as the advertisements led me to believe I would be.


Nothing here changes the fact that when the time comes, you wont be anywhere near it.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 1, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Nothing here changes the fact that when the time comes, you wont be anywhere near it.



...and you probably won't either.  So that's good.

I am always fascinated at grown men who have such an intense fantasy life.  But in reality you go to your regular job like the rest of us.  You have to run to the store.  You have to pick up pantyhose for your wife.  All the usual grey-flannel life stuff.

That's life.  NOT the fantasies you harbor on the weekend of being a big man gunnin' down libtards as you reclaim America.  That's a cartoon.  Most of us figured out YEARS AGO that we aren't going to become astronauts or wild west gunslingers with a big horse.  Most of us grew up at some point.

Think for a minute:  do you REALLY think an America where there are armed guards in the schools and churches is what you really, really want?  Because that's ALL you ever propose.

More guns show up, more shootings happen. 

What kind of America do you want?  If you tell me you want an armed encampment where everyone is gunning for everyone else I will accept that as it aligns with the only legislation you support.  But if you actually want an America more like what we all grew up in, maybe, just maybe you need to rethink your hobbies and your choice of toys.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 1, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> View attachment 652807



I bet you guys have ENTIRE COLLECTIONS of super-manly graphics.  Lots of screamin' skulls and vicious snakes and maybe a few women popping out of skimpy outfits.  All so very manly.  That way no one will know about those "secret thoughts" that come from time to time.  You know the thoughts.  The ones your buddies at the lake lot wouldn't like hearing from you.  So you go out and find more MANLY GRAPHICS to put on things.

Just a few more gun-wielding he-men and everyone will buy the facade.  Just a few more....


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 1, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> ...and you probably won't either.  So that's good.


Good of you to admit you're happy to  have -other- people die for your fantasy of taking away our guns, but not willing to take the risk yourself..


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 1, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> I bet you guys have ENTIRE COLLECTIONS of super-manly...


You forgot to mention my small penis, derived from your fixation on same.
10 demerits.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 1, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> You know people might take you seriously if just ONE reality-based talking point would make it into your remit.


Your dislike for reality does not make it any less real.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> I know.  But at the end of the day my hobby isn't helping kill children like yours is.


Nope.  Gun availability has little impact on homicide rates.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> I understand.  Thank you for agreeing that many people in your movement are disgusting hypocrites.


No hypocrisy on our end.

I don't care if you find us disgusting.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> You aren't defending me.  Statistics show you will NEVER defend me.  In fact the odds are that you will hurt yourself or someone in your family LONG before you'll stop any crimes or defend anyone.


Damn right I won't defend you.  You're not worth defending.

As far as I'm concerned, you and the rest of the progressives all belong in concentration camps.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> What would YOU know about freedom?


I'm an American, so everything.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> You live in SLAVERY to your utter terror.  You need guns all around you because EVERYTHING is terrifying to you and the only way to deal with ANYTHING in your book is to be able to SHOOT IT.
> You are the least free person I have met in a while.


Nonsense.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Wrong.


Statistics show otherwise.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Good.    You are admitting you guys are hypocrites and sociopaths.


Nope.  We do not agree to your false accusations.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> I guess that leaves the rest of us with no choice but take your hobby away from you.


You have no ability to do that.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Hypocrite sociopaths are NOT people who should have guns.
> You deserve NOTHING.  If you don't play well with society *you lose your rights.
> That's the deal.*
> Enjoy!


That's not the deal.  That's your pathetic fantasy of becoming the next Stalin.

You have no power to inflict harm on us, and you never will.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Because we are a society.  And not everyone likes you or your hobby.


Your dislike for freedom is irrelevant.  America will remain free no matter how much you hate it.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> And what, praytell, have any of you EVER HAD TO GIVE UP in regards to guns?  Seriously...YOU GET EVERYTHING!


Actually there are many restrictions on guns already.  And you guys have been violating people's civil liberties for no reason for years in various far-left states.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Why can't you guys just sit back and enjoy your win.  Turn on the tube, watch some kids getting gunned down and sip a cold one.


I do enjoy the fact that I have defeated you.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> America has the highest rate of imprisonment of any developed nation on earth.  So your "hypothesis" doesn't hold water.


Wrong.  He stated a fact, and his fact is correct.

What is it about progressives that makes them unable to think and use logic?




Cardinal Carminative said:


> If all those laws don't work,


Some don't.  Some merely are not enforced.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> I guess the only other thing is to take EVERYONE'S GUNS.


You don't have the power to do that.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> So either you give a little or you lose EVERYTHING.


You don't have the power to do that.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> And you will unless you learn to get along with the large number of Americans who DON'T enjoy your hobby and are kind of tired of watching kids die in school.


No we won't.  You have no power to do anything.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> studies keep showing that guns in the home are more dangerous for people in the home than any would-be attackers


Nonsense.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Also:  if the Gov't wanted your guns you wouldn't have much of a choice.  Based on your handle here I assume you are more than familiar with the kind of hardware the US has available to its military.  You will lose.  Sorry to break it to you.


Despite your Stalinist fantasies, America is a democracy.  That means the government answers to us.

Additionally, the courts protect us and will not allow our civil liberties to be violated.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> I dunno.  Previously I would have agreed with you, but not so sure now.


Watch us keep blocking your attempts to violate our civil liberties.

Sooner or later it will sink in that you have no power and you never will.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> You guys live in such abject terror of losing your guns.
> You guys are the least free Americans I've ever met.  You live in abject terror of EVERYONE ELSE and you further fret non-stop that someone's going to take your guns.


Nonsense.  We know that you have no power to impose your Stalinist tyranny on us.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> I actually kind of feel sorry for you.  I just wish your hobby didn't help people kill little kids so easily.


Our hobby does not kill anyone at all.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> All you ever propose are ways to make America more like your demented horror show.  That's YOUR fear, my friend.  YOUR malfunction.
> YOU have turned America into a hellscape.


That's just your dislike for freedom.

You're in good company.  The 9/11 hijackers hated our freedom just as much as you do.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> What kind of America do you want?  If you tell me you want an armed encampment where everyone is gunning for everyone else I will accept that as it aligns with the only legislation you support.  But if you actually want an America more like what we all grew up in, maybe, just maybe you need to rethink your hobbies and your choice of toys.


We're not going to give up our freedom no matter how much you beg.

But keep on begging.  It's kind of funny.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 1, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Good of you to admit you're happy to  have -other- people die for your fantasy of taking away our guns, but not willing to take the risk yourself..



LOL. 

Not my hobby.  That's your thing.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 1, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> As far as I'm concerned, you and the rest of the progressives all belong in concentration camps.



^^^^THIS is the kind of stuff I like to see from you guys. 

It shows what this is all really about.  You find you are relatively "powerless" in your boring dull middle-class life.  You are forced to toe the corporate line for your meager paycheck and you lack any ability to enact YOUR desires while everyone can tell you what to do all the time.

This frustrates you so you fantasize about what would give you REAL POWER.  And that's the "gun".  The gun represents for you a sense of power over others.  It buys you a sense of importance.  Suddenly YOU hold all the power because you have a gun.

They make you a "man" as opposed to the hampered little grey boy that trudges to work every day and home every night and to the golfcourse and bar every weekend.  Over and over and over.  Always taking commands, never being taken seriously.





Open Bolt said:


> That's not the deal.  That's your pathetic fantasy of becoming the next Stalin.



YOU were the one who said we should all be in concentration camps. 



Open Bolt said:


> Despite your Stalinist fantasies, America is a democracy.  That means the government answers to us.



Again, so far ONLY YOU want to throw everyone who disagrees with  you in a CONCENTRATION CAMP.

I cannot imagine that the irony of your post misses you as well.  No one could be that stupid.

So, kudos on satire at a whole new level.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 1, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> But keep on begging.  It's kind of funny.



The only begging you hear are the parents at Uvalde begging your BLUE LINE to go in and save their kids.

I understand you probably find that funny as well.

Ha. ha. ha.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 1, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> I dunno.  Previously I would have agreed with you, but not so sure now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know a number of gun owners who will show up at the polls for every election and are one issue voters. Gun control is that issue and they are opposed to any form of draconian gun control and also to a national registry of firearms. 

In fact I know one just other gun enthusiast who is a registered Democrat. (I was a registered Democrat until three years ago. As with many Democrats it wasn’t so much that I left the Democratic Party as it left me.)

Now that women and minorities are buying guns for the first time you can bet they are not going to vote for gun grabbing Democrats. Firearms are not cheap and now new owners have invested money in one or several they definitely do not wish to turn it in to the government. 

Plus, Sleepy Joe is out saying he sees no need for 9mm pistols. Guess what a lot of first time gun owners just bought. 

Oh by the way, A 9mm round from a handgun will not blow a lung out of the body as our idiot President claims. Does this fool think people are so stupid as to believe him? Nest he will tell people that a 9mm is so powerful that shooting one will knock both you and your victim off your feet. 









						Boom: 5.4M first-time gun buyers, 33% women, blacks up 44%
					

First-time gun buyers continued to flood into firearms stores last year, broadening the once male and white market with women, blacks, Asians, and Hispanics.




					www.washingtonexaminer.com
				












						FACT CHECK: Biden Says 9mm Bullet Will Blow 'Lung Out of the Body'
					

CLAIM: On Memorial Day 2022 President Biden claimed a 9mm bullet will "blow the lung out of the body."




					www.breitbart.com


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 1, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> It shows what this is all really about.  You find you are relatively "powerless" in your boring dull middle-class life.  You are forced to toe the corporate line for your meager paycheck and you lack any ability to enact YOUR desires while everyone can tell you what to do all the time.
> This frustrates you so you fantasize about what would give you REAL POWER.


Nice try but you are the one who is making powerless demands to violate people's rights.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> And that's the "gun".  The gun represents for you a sense of power over others.  It buys you a sense of importance.  Suddenly YOU hold all the power because you have a gun.
> They make you a "man" as opposed to the hampered little grey boy that trudges to work every day and home every night and to the golfcourse and bar every weekend.


Your ignorance is pretty silly.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Over and over and over.  Always taking commands, never being taken seriously.


I can see why you think life is like that given your previously-demonstrated inability to think, but I for one am able to present intelligent arguments that other intelligent people take seriously.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> YOU were the one who said we should all be in concentration camps.


It's where progressive vermin belong.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Again, so far ONLY YOU want to throw everyone who disagrees with  you in a CONCENTRATION CAMP.


Not really.

I mean, I do disagree with progressive vermin, sure.  But mere disagreement is not why progressives belong in concentration camps.

You are nasty people who violate people's civil liberties for fun.  You belong in concentration camps simply to prevent you from harming people.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 1, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> It's not like an AR-15 is anything like a "most dangerous weapon".  That pistol grip doesn't make a gun become any more dangerous.


That’s all you think what makes an AR15 platform rifle ? You really don’t know much about firearms do you ?


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 1, 2022)

Failzero said:


> My Mountain Home (North Eastern Shasta County /  Ultra rural southern Cascades ) is surrounded by Cartel Henchmen / Neckbeard Local Freak Pot grows and Meth cooker/ Part time pot trimmers giving growing a go types ( If I wanted to live where my nearest neighbor was 7.1 miles away It would be the Montana prairie or Alaska but not my region of Far Nor Cal anymore . Yes I have a California CCW but my 15 pound Female Dwarf White Poodle passed away so I’m currently dogless


Maybe it’s time to go to the local dog pound and adopt man’s  best friend.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 1, 2022)

Batcat said:


> I know a number of gun owners who will show up at the polls for every election and are one issue voters.



Do they vote to make sure there's going to be another mass shooting at a school somewhere?  It's good to have something that motivates oneself.



Batcat said:


> Gun control is that issue and they are opposed to any form of draconian gun control and also to a national registry of firearms.



Wait.  A few more mass shootings and a lot more "single issue voters" might appear over night!  Only they won't vote the way you want.  Keep your fingers crossed your hobby doesn't show up in the news yet again...


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 1, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> That’s all you think what makes an AR15 platform rifle ?


It's more that it's all that _you_ think makes an AR15 platform rifle.




Dagosa said:


> You really don’t know much about firearms do you ?


I know a million times more about guns than you do.

You really don't know much about anything at all.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 1, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Wait.  A few more mass shootings and a lot more "single issue voters" might appear over night!  Only they won't vote the way you want.


Your fantasy that the American people will turn against freedom, will remain a fantasy.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 1, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Nice try but you are the one who is making powerless demands to violate people's rights.



Good save!



Open Bolt said:


> I can see why you think life is like that given your previously-demonstrated inability to think, but I for one am able to present intelligent arguments that other intelligent people take seriously.



Oh good!  Let me know when you do!



Open Bolt said:


> It's where progressive vermin belong.



Just like Stalin said!




Open Bolt said:


> I mean, I do disagree with progressive vermin, sure.  But mere disagreement is not why progressives belong in concentration camps.



Is it because you just hate some people for no reason?  Yeah, you sound like a PRIME candidate for gun ownership.

(Actually you sound like you are kind of scary.  I hope the authorities have you on some sort of list)



Open Bolt said:


> You are nasty people who violate people's civil liberties for fun.



It's not for fun.  



Open Bolt said:


> You belong in concentration camps simply to prevent you from harming people.



For the greater good, eh comrade? DA!

Kak zhivut udranyiki!


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 1, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Your fantasy that the American people will turn against freedom, will remain a fantasy.



Well, Americans are humans (with a few notable exceptions) and humans have been known to do some pretty draconian things.  You need only look around the world to see some examples.

Your "right" to a gun is WHOLLY ARBITRARY.  It isn't a law of nature.  It's something we all AGREED to let you have.  But it can go away.

Maybe you might want to try acting like an ADULT and discussing the issues rationally.  Or not.  See how well it works out in the long run for you.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 1, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> LOL.
> Not my hobby.


Right.
As I said, you are willing to send people to die to fulfill your fantasies, but not take the risk youself.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 1, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Right.
> As I said, you are willing to send people to die to fulfill your fantasies, but not take the risk youself.



It isn't my fantasy that you loons will start shooting anyone who even marginally scares you.

It's my fear that you guys are so over-the-edge that fewer of us are safe with you around.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 1, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> It isn't my fantasy...


Your fantasy is that someday people like you will have "enough" and come for the guns.   You said so yourself.
Well, except they won't people like -you-, because -they- will actually put their lives on the line, and -you- won't.
And so, -you- are more than willing to have OTHER  people die to fulfill -your- fantasies.
Ar least we know where your fixation on small penises comes from.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 1, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Your fantasy is that someday people like you will have "enough" and come for the guns.   You said so yourself.



It isn't my fantasy that you loons will be SO dedicated to your guns that you take up arms against the rest of the country.

We see how that usually ends in Ruby Ridge and Waco etc.  



M14 Shooter said:


> Well, except they won't people like -you-, because -they- will actually put their lives on the line, and -you- won't.



Yeah, you'll forgive me if I assume your fantasy of standing up and taking out the US military with your hunting rifles is largely a fever dream.



M14 Shooter said:


> And so, -you- are more than willing to have OTHER  people die to fulfill -your- fantasies.
> Ar least we know where your fixation on small penises comes from.





Clever.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 1, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Do they vote to make sure there's going to be another mass shooting at a school somewhere?  It's good to have something that motivates oneself.
> 
> 
> 
> Wait.  A few more mass shootings and a lot more "single issue voters" might appear over night!  Only they won't vote the way you want.  Keep your fingers crossed your hobby doesn't show up in the news yet again...


How about we do what has been suggested over and over after every recent school shooting. Secure our schools. Have armed security and trained armed teachers in schools. The armed security could be retired police or military. Limit entrances and install magnetic detectors. Have experts run security checks on each and every school and improve as required. Bullet proof glass is also worth considering for classrooms. 

You will accomplish a lot more by securing the schools than by trying to ban and confiscate guns from honest people. Plus if you do confiscate guns you will only enable criminals who never will turn their weapons in. 

But I get the feeling you are hoping for a whole bunch of mass shootings to occur to increase votes for gun grabbing Democrats.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 1, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Good save!


Meh.  All I do is just tell the truth.  Things always work out when I do that.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Oh good!  Let me know when you do!


I always do it.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Is it because you just hate some people for no reason?


No.  It's because progressive vermin cause so much harm to people.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Actually you sound like you are kind of scary.  I hope the authorities have you on some sort of list


Of course you do.  Progressives hate our freedom just as much as the 9/11 hijackers hated our freedom.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> It's not for fun.


Yes it is.  You violate people's civil liberties solely because you enjoy violating people's civil liberties.  No other reason.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Well, Americans are humans (with a few notable exceptions) and humans have been known to do some pretty draconian things.


Americans are human.

Progressives are not.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Your "right" to a gun is WHOLLY ARBITRARY.


Wrong.  It is something that all free people have.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> It's something we all AGREED to let you have.  But it can go away.


Nope.  You have no such power.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Maybe you might want to try acting like an ADULT and discussing the issues rationally.  Or not.  See how well it works out in the long run for you.


You have no power to do anything at all.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> It isn't my fantasy that you loons will be SO dedicated to your guns that you take up arms against the rest of the country.
> We see how that usually ends in Ruby Ridge and Waco etc.


Those were not cases of people taking up arms against the country.  Those were cases of the government murdering innocent Americans.

They ended with Timothy McVey giving the victims a bit of justice.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Yeah, you'll forgive me if I assume your fantasy of standing up and taking out the US military with your hunting rifles is largely a fever dream.


I've never heard him express any such fantasy.  Usually it's progressives who hate America's military.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 1, 2022)

Batcat said:


> How about we do what has been suggested over and over after every recent school shooting. Secure our schools. Have armed security and trained armed teachers in schools.



Because that's turning America into an armed encampment.

THAT ISN'T A COUNTRY WORTH DEFENDING.

Instead, let's try finding a way to REDUCE the number of shootings.  We can look at how *literally every other developed nation on the planet does it*.



Batcat said:


> Limit entrances



There are literally ENTIRE BOOKS about disasters where doors were limited.  It's part of the reason that fire safety organizations say "no" to this kind of silliness.



Batcat said:


> and install magnetic detectors. Have experts run security checks on each and every school and improve as required. Bullet proof glass is also worth considering for classrooms.



Bullet proof glass in schools?  *THE SAME SCHOOLS YOU WON'T PAY MORE IN TAXES TO IMPROVE?*  The same schools where the teachers have to buy their own school supplies?

What is wrong with this picture?



Batcat said:


> You will accomplish a lot more by securing the schools than by trying to ban and confiscate guns from honest people. Plus if you do confiscate guns you will only enable criminals who never will turn their weapons in.



You know, this sounds interesting...but then I shake my head and wake up and realize *THERE IS LITERALLY NO OTHER DEVELOPED NATION ON THE PLANET THAT HAS TO DO THESE THINGS.

YOU GUYS have fucked up America.  And you have lost your right to demand we make things MORE FUCKED UP just because you exist in that state so well.*



Batcat said:


> But I get the feeling you are hoping for a whole bunch of mass shootings to occur to increase votes for gun grabbing Democrats.



Fuck off.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 1, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I always do it.



Ha!  That's funny.  It means you THINK what you are saying is rational.  That's funny.




Open Bolt said:


> No.  It's because progressive vermin cause so much harm to people.



Yes, the "giftpilz"



Open Bolt said:


> Of course you do.  Progressives hate our freedom just as much as the 9/11 hijackers hated our freedom.



It's so simple for you isn't it?  Too bad you're so stupid you think it actually IS that.





Open Bolt said:


> Yes it is.  You violate people's civil liberties solely because you enjoy violating people's civil liberties.  No other reason.



LOL.  Strawman fallacy.

But I suspect fallacious logic is no stranger to you!



Open Bolt said:


> Americans are human.
> 
> Progressives are not.



Oh that's REALLY good!  Demonize, dehumanize.  First stop on the "elimination" train.

You sound like you REALLY admire Hitler.




Open Bolt said:


> They ended with Timothy McVey giving the victims a bit of justice.



See?  YOU DO like dead kids!  Timothy McVeigh (that's the spelling you were looking for) took out some kids in a daycare there.  That feel like JUSTICE to you?


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 1, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Ha!  That's funny.  It means you THINK what you are saying is rational.  That's funny.


What I say is quite rational.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Yes, the "giftpilz"


I speak English, not whatever gibberish you are spouting.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> It's so simple for you isn't it?  Too bad you're so stupid you think it actually IS that.


I'm trillions of times smarter than you are.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> LOL.  Strawman fallacy.


Wrong.  Accusing you of atrocities is not what a strawman fallacy is.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> But I suspect fallacious logic is no stranger to you!


You are the only person here who has proven to be incapable of logic.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Oh that's REALLY good!  Demonize, dehumanize.  First stop on the "elimination" train.


Progressives are vermin.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> You sound like you REALLY admire Hitler.


Not really.  He reminds me of you.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> See?  YOU DO like dead kids!  Timothy McVeigh (that's the spelling you were looking for, moron) took out some kids in a daycare there.  That feel like JUSTICE to you?


It was far from ideal, but it was the only justice the victims ever got (in this world at least).




Cardinal Carminative said:


> You sick fuck.


Now you're going to try using progressive phony outrage against me?


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 1, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I speak English, not whatever gibberish you are spouting.



I love that you were unfamiliar with the reference.  Because it sounds from your posts you would be REALLY familiar with the "giftpilz".




Open Bolt said:


> I'm trillions of times smarter than you are.



Is that why you didn't get the "giftpilz" reference?  LOL.



Open Bolt said:


> Wrong.  Accusing you of atrocities is not what a strawman fallacy is.



LOL.



Open Bolt said:


> You are the only person here who has proven to be incapable of logic.



Brilliant riposte, counsellor!



Open Bolt said:


> Progressives are vermin.



Please, we prefer "giftpilz"



Open Bolt said:


> It was far from ideal, but it was the only justice the victims ever got (in this world at least).



Sorry but those kids didn't deserve it.  No matter how much you think they might have.



Open Bolt said:


> Now you're going to try using progressive phony outrage against me?



You are the one who is providing all the ammunition.


----------



## Failzero (Jun 1, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> It isn't my fantasy that you loons will start shooting anyone who even marginally scares you.
> 
> It's my fear that you guys are so over-the-edge that fewer of us are safe with you around.


Yeah We made a mess of Portland & Seattle & Kenosha & Baltimore & the Twin Cities ...didn’t we lol


----------



## woodwork201 (Jun 1, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Handguns won't do much against body armor.  Plus the portability of a handgun will not be required because the gun safe will be right there in the classroom.
> 
> Better that teachers keep rifles in their classrooms.
> 
> ...


Now we know that the Uvalde shooter didn't have body armor as first reported.  The police did.  The shooter had a MOLLE tacticool vest on.  This is an old story and ignoramuses in the press always report that shooters with a vest have armor and it turns out otherwise.  Remember that armor is on the line with the anti-gunners as well.


----------



## Failzero (Jun 1, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Maybe it’s time to go to the local dog pound and adopt man’s  best friend.


I’m lookin ( But meanwhile I’m building moar Guns & gettin moar Ammo )


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 1, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Because it sounds from your posts you would be REALLY familiar with the "giftpilz".


Sorry.  English only.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Sorry but those kids didn't deserve it.  No matter how much you think they might have.


The people at Waco and Ruby Ridge didn't deserve it.

I already said that the justice that McVey provided was less than ideal.  He certainly didn't go about it the right way.

But it is a black mark on our country's history that he is the only person who has ever even tried to get justice for the victims.  Those government murderers should have been tried in court.  And if they had been, perhaps McVey would not have felt compelled to act on his own.


----------



## protectionist (Jun 1, 2022)

jbander said:


> Kiss off , we can regulate guns anyway we see fit as a nation and since everyone except you gun bubbas want to do just that , then that in a democracy is the reason it should happen,. If I could write the law, I would exclude every one of you gun Bubbas from owning guns. Every one of you nut jobs in my neighborhood are dangerous as far as I'm concerned. Your chance of shooting yourself in the foot or shooting someone else, will happen way sooner than you will ever use that gun to protect anything. I don't even want you people around.


That lamebrain attitude is exactly what is getting kids killed.  I, and many other CCW holders are military veterans, who are experienced & knowledgable about guns, as you leftist gun-clueless saps are not.  We served many years in the US military, and didn't shoot ourselves in the foot , or do anything irresponsible with our guns.

What you describe is what would happen you, or your gun-illiterate liberals, got your hands on a gun (Alex Baldwin x 1,000).


----------



## jbander (Jun 1, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Interesting fantasy.  But in the real world you can't do anything without the NRA's permission.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This from  a hate Nazi, a MAGA maggot. You will shoot more people by accident that shoot people protecting yourself, Simple fact, and that makes you look exactly as I'm saying, a joke. I'm more than willing to change the constitution to take the guns out of the hand of a group that supported or did try to bring down our democracy to force in a piece of shit for A dictator. And then give their support to that traitor to this country. Next time when you people try to bring down this great country, they will be armed to the teeth and even though Trump will ask you to kill for him, you will get massacred trying and will I ever celebrate. Bang!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jbander (Jun 1, 2022)

protectionist said:


> That lamebrain attitude is exactly what is getting kids killed.  I, and many other CCW holders are military veterans, who are experienced & knowledgable about guns, as you leftist gun-clueless saps are not.  We served many years in the US military, and didn't shoot ourselves in the foot , or do anything irresponsible with our guns.
> 
> What you describe is what would happen you, or your gun-illiterate liberals, got your hands on a gun (Alex Baldwin x 1,000).


You have me rolling on the floor, I don't want any of you gun bubbas living by me, you are dangerous to everyone around, including your neighbors' pets, I would take a neighborhood full of immigrants any day over even one of you Gun Bubbas as a neighbor.


----------



## jbander (Jun 1, 2022)

protectionist said:


> That lamebrain attitude is exactly what is getting kids killed.  I, and many other CCW holders are military veterans, who are experienced & knowledgable about guns, as you leftist gun-clueless saps are not.  We served many years in the US military, and didn't shoot ourselves in the foot , or do anything irresponsible with our guns.
> 
> What you describe is what would happen you, or your gun-illiterate liberals, got your hands on a gun (Alex Baldwin x 1,000).


Bullshit, guns are regulated and the Nazi Group NRA could do nothing about it. Bang another gun Bubbas shot himself in the foot!


----------



## jbander (Jun 1, 2022)

Regulate the hell out of these Gun Bubbas. The whole country wants to. SO we should. Funny the concept of the 2nd is to protect us from the overthrow  of the government, so what do we do when that's the group that on Jan 6th tried to do just that. All to throw out our democracy to force in a piece of shit for a dictator. Next time it will be the big crunch!!!!!!!


----------



## Failzero (Jun 1, 2022)

jbander said:


> You have me rolling on the floor, I don't want any of you gun bubbas living by me, you are dangerous to everyone around, including your neighbors' pets, I would take a neighborhood full of immigrants any day over even one of you Gun Bubbas as a neighbor.


But your GTG with Black Bloc and BLM eMe / MS13 living all around you


----------



## Failzero (Jun 1, 2022)

That would be t


jbander said:


> Bullshit, guns are regulated and the Nazi Group NRA could do nothing about it. Bang another gun Bubbas shot himself in the foot!


That would’ve the Black Militia guys every time they gather in numbers “ Bang”


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 1, 2022)

jbander said:


> Regulate the hell out of these Gun Bubbas. The whole country wants to. SO we should.


You have no power to do that.




jbander said:


> I'm more than willing to change the constitution


I don't doubt it.  But you will not be permitted to do so.




jbander said:


> Bullshit, guns are regulated and the Nazi Group NRA could do nothing about it. Bang another gun Bubbas shot himself in the foot!


I'm not sure what you are talking about.  But the NRA does have the power to stop you from passing any new federal gun laws.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 1, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Because that's turning America into an armed encampment.
> 
> THAT ISN'T A COUNTRY WORTH DEFENDING.
> 
> ...


So continue to try to take firearms from honest people. You will continue to fail. 

Don’t try to better secure schools or better treat mental illness. Keep doing what has been tried and tried and tried since the JFK assassination. More students and innocent people will continue to die. 

Doing the same thing over and over and over and expecting different results is a sign of mental illness.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 2, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Because that's turning America into an armed encampment.
> 
> THAT ISN'T A COUNTRY WORTH DEFENDING.
> 
> ...


Face reality. Americans are not like people in other nations. 

We feel an armed individual is a citizen while a disarmed individual is a subject.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 2, 2022)

Failzero said:


> I’m lookin ( But meanwhile I’m building moar Guns & gettin moar Ammo )


Sure, that will help. What most don’t get about self defense is, no matter how much you surround yourself with guns, it’s way less effective  when compared to your dependence on others and other means. It’s a laughable choice.


----------



## Failzero (Jun 2, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Sure, that will help. What most don’t get about self defense is, no matter how much you surround yourself with guns, it’s way less effective  when compared to your dependence on others and other means. It’s a laughable choice.


Depen on my Neighbors or the Sheriff ?


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 2, 2022)

Failzero said:


> Depen on my Neighbors or the Sheriff ?


. A dog, security cameras, auto lighting  and yes, neighbors. It’s hilarious thinking  you having a firearm at home is going to deter anyone better then many other choices. WTF knows you have a gun. Who the fk cares if a burglar is waiting till you leave anyway.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 2, 2022)

Batcat said:


> So continue to try to take firearms from honest people. You will continue to fail.


Exactly which honest people are deterred by universal Background checks.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 2, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Exactly which honest people are deterred by universal Background checks.











						This is Why 'Universal Background Checks' Are a Really Bad Idea - The Truth About Guns
					

&#9664Previous Post Next Post▶ As is the case with every further restriction the anti-gun left promotes, when it comes to enacting “universal background checks,” the most demonic devil is always in the details. National Review‘s Charles C.W. Cooke, an escaped Brit who’s a tireless defender of...




					www.thetruthaboutguns.com


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 2, 2022)

Batcat said:


> This is Why 'Universal Background Checks' Are a Really Bad Idea - The Truth About Guns
> 
> 
> &#9664Previous Post Next Post▶ As is the case with every further restriction the anti-gun left promotes, when it comes to enacting “universal background checks,” the most demonic devil is always in the details. National Review‘s Charles C.W. Cooke, an escaped Brit who’s a tireless defender of...
> ...


Nothing in there is a problem for honest people more then it would be for buying a gun from a gun  dealer.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

Batcat said:


> This is Why 'Universal Background Checks' Are a Really Bad Idea - The Truth About Guns
> 
> 
> &#9664Previous Post Next Post▶ As is the case with every further restriction the anti-gun left promotes, when it comes to enacting “universal background checks,” the most demonic devil is always in the details. National Review‘s Charles C.W. Cooke, an escaped Brit who’s a tireless defender of...
> ...


The anti-gun loons know UBC is a means to enact universal registration.
No one wonders why they want that.


----------



## Failzero (Jun 2, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> . A dog, security cameras, auto lighting  and yes, neighbors. It’s hilarious thinking  you having a firearm at home is going to deter anyone better then many other choices. WTF knows you have a gun. Who the fk cares if a burglar is waiting till you leave anyway.


I can have someone I know drive away with my rig and wait in the dark for the Break in too


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 2, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Exactly which honest people are deterred by universal Background checks.


Honest people who understand that if the government knows which law abiding citizens possess which guns, the government will try to unjustly seize those guns from those law abiding citizens.


----------



## jbander (Jun 2, 2022)

You want to see how stupid the gun bubbas argument is.  They shot 473 people using their guns defensively in the first half of 2022,to do that they have killed 18,212 people in total gun violent deaths in that same half year. These people are total ignorant clowns , they are a joke and every one of their arguments are a joke. This is like everything else with these MAGA Maggots. They have to make up their own definition of everything to make an argument for their case, and their definitions are always self-serving and stupid. All these things have definitions that they can't make a point with, so they make up their own definition.. Or pick one that is totally stupid,


----------



## jbander (Jun 2, 2022)

THESE CLOWNS ARE IDIOTS


----------



## protectionist (Jun 2, 2022)

jbander said:


> You have me rolling on the floor, I don't want any of you gun bubbas living by me, you are dangerous to everyone around, including your neighbors' pets, I would take a neighborhood full of immigrants any day over even one of you Gun Bubbas as a neighbor.


Is there a doctor in the house? (or expert DEPROGRAMMER ?)   Whew!


----------



## protectionist (Jun 2, 2022)

jbander said:


> Bullshit, guns are regulated and the Nazi Group NRA could do nothing about it. Bang another gun Bubbas shot himself in the foot!


NRA only defends rights founders gave us in the 2nd amendment.  Ho hum. Yawn****


----------



## protectionist (Jun 2, 2022)

jbander said:


> You want to see how stupid the gun bubbas argument is.  They shot 473 people using their guns defensively in the first half of 2022,to do that they have killed 18,212 people in total gun violent deaths in that same half year. These people are total ignorant clowns , they are a joke and every one of their arguments are a joke. This is like everything else with these MAGA Maggots. They have to make up their own definition of everything to make an argument for their case, and their definitions are always self-serving and stupid. All these things have definitions that they can't make a point with, so they make up their own definition.. Or pick one that is totally stupid,


All that is exactly what YOU are doing here.  Only thing you've accomplished is getting people to never read your posts again.


----------



## protectionist (Jun 2, 2022)

jbander said:


> View attachment 653331 THESE CLOWNS ARE IDIOTS


YOU are the idiot. 56% of these are suicides, which could have occured in any of a number of ways.  More easily with drugs.

The fact remains that guns in the hands of trained, law-abiding people, are the best defense against criminals.  Lamebrain liberals want to diminish that, which will give us MORE GUN CRIME.


----------



## jbander (Jun 3, 2022)

Batcat said:


> So continue to try to take firearms from honest people. You will continue to fail.
> 
> Don’t try to better secure schools or better treat mental illness. Keep doing what has been tried and tried and tried since the JFK assassination. More students and innocent people will continue to die.
> 
> Doing the same thing over and over and over and expecting different results is a sign of mental illness.


Honest people , hell, I’m more concerned about your group's level of stupidity. If the solution cost anything, it will be voted down by the MAGA maggots. Making your remarks just that much more stupid./


----------



## jbander (Jun 3, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Face reality. Americans are not like people in other nations.
> 
> We feel an armed individual is a citizen while a disarmed individual is a subject.
> 
> View attachment 652957


An armed MAGA maggot is a shooting in the foot statistic, nothing else. IN their process of protecting themselves, they have shot 473 people, while their guns have killed 18,212 people in just the first half of 2022. SO how stupid is their remarks about needing guns for protection. These people are cartoon characters.


----------



## jbander (Jun 3, 2022)

protectionist said:


> All that is exactly what YOU are doing here.  Only thing you've accomplished is getting people to never read your posts again.


Please don't read my posts, your responses are stupid and rarely read anyway.


----------



## jbander (Jun 3, 2022)

protectionist said:


> YOU are the idiot. 56% of these are suicides, which could have occured in any of a number of ways.  More easily with drugs.
> 
> The fact remains that guns in the hands of trained, law-abiding people, are the best defense against criminals.  Lamebrain liberals want to diminish that, which will give us MORE GUN CRIME.


I guess we have to repeat this, to show how comical his remark is. ------An armed MAGA maggot is a shooting in the foot statistic, nothing else. IN their process of protecting themselves, they have shot 473 people, while their guns have killed 18,212 people in just the first half of 2022. SO how stupid is their remarks about needing guns for protection. These people are cartoon characters.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 3, 2022)

jbander said:


> An armed MAGA maggot is a shooting in the foot statistic, nothing else. IN their process of protecting themselves, they have shot 473 people, while their guns have killed 18,212 people in just the first half of 2022. SO how stupid is their remarks about needing guns for protection. These people are cartoon characters.


How many of those people were killed by gang members on the streets of large urban cities? Plus how many of those gang members had been arrested before for illegally carrying a firearm and got off scot-free or with a slap on the wrist? 228 people have died in Chicago so far this year. 

Realistically do you think all the killers are Trump supporters? A drug gang member in Chicago is a MAGA supporter? You obviously have Trump derangement syndrome.

Perhaps it is the Democrats not the Trump supporters who are enabling gang killings in big cities.









						Chicago requires convicted gun criminals to register, makes arrests but won’t prosecute violators
					

Hundreds are arrested every year for violating a 2013 ordinance requiring those convicted of gun crimes to register annually. They’re almost never fined or jailed.




					chicago.suntimes.com
				












						Chicago PD Made 53 Weekend Felony Gun Arrests, Judges Let Them Out Of Jail - The Police Tribune
					

Chicago, IL – Chicago police have been making arrests for felony gun charges among a spike in shootings, only to see judges quickly release the suspects on bond. This past weekend, 56 illegal guns were taken off the city streets by Chicago police officers, Chicago Police Chief Communications...




					policetribune.com


----------



## Batcat (Jun 3, 2022)

jbander said:


> Honest people , hell, I’m more concerned about your group's level of stupidity. If the solution cost anything, it will be voted down by the MAGA maggots. Making your remarks just that much more stupid./


I believe the Republicans favor hardening schools. It’s the Dems who vote the legislation down. 









						Sen. Cruz reveals Senate Dems blocked 2013 proposals to harden school security, keep guns away from felons and mentally insane | As has become typical, Democrats and their media allies immediately demanded more gun control and viciously attacked thei
					

As has become typical, Democrats and their media allies immediately demanded more gun control and viciously attacked their Republican opponents in the immediate aftermath of another tragic mass shooting at a school, this time at Robb Elementary in Uvalde, Texas. Second Amendment supporter Sen...




					ussanews.com


----------



## jbander (Jun 3, 2022)

Batcat said:


> How many of those people were killed by gang members on the streets of large urban cities? Plus how many of those gang members had been arrested before for illegally carrying a firearm and got off scot-free or with a slap on the wrist? 228 people have died in Chicago so far this year.
> 
> Realistically do you think all the killers are Trump supporters? A drug gang member in Chicago is a MAGA supporter? You obviously have Trump derangement syndrome.
> 
> ...


There is19 states that are more dangerous to live in than New York, all MAGA Maggot states. You gun bubbas are a joke, What are the worst States for homicide and homicide by guns , MAGA Maggot states are the worst in this country. What states have the biggest hate group numbers , YUP MAGA Maggot states again.


----------



## jbander (Jun 3, 2022)

Batcat said:


> I believe the Republicans favor hardening schools. It’s the Dems who vote the legislation down.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hardening schools bullshit, you're a liar. They got a majority vote but they couldn't get the 60 votes needed that both parties demanded. If they open their mouths it is a lie or distortion always. Never the truth.


----------



## jbander (Jun 3, 2022)

Is every single MAGA maggot illiterate.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 3, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Honest people who understand that if the government knows which law abiding citizens possess which guns, the government will try to unjustly seize those guns from those law abiding citizens.


Exactly when is this going to happen ? Everyone who has ever purchased a firearm from an ffl dealer of had a state issued weapons permit, had a hunting license etc.  has been know to posses a firearm. Do you have any proof in the last that the FEDERAL GOVT.  has had a. A pain of taking law abiding citizen’s guns away ? I’m still waiting for them to take mine. How about yours ? Any “takers”.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 3, 2022)

jbander said:


> Hardening schools bullshit, you're a liar. They got a majority vote but they couldn't get the 60 votes needed that both parties demanded. If they open their mouths it is a lie or distortion always. Never the truth.


Next you are going to tell me that the President thinks hardening schools is a good idea. 









						Biden opposed to ‘hardening schools’ against potential shooters: Jean-Pierre
					

President Joe Biden does not support “hardening schools” against potential school shooters following the massacre at a Texas elementary school last week.




					nypost.com
				




Of course Biden and the Democratic Party are not as interested in saving the lives of children as they are about banning certain firearms, Demcorats keep trying the same thing over and over and over despite the fact that it never works. In fact their efforts to ban guns will lead to another wild buying spree and firearms and ammo will be as rare as baby formula. 

Everybody now will want a 9mm handgun because the idiot we have for President says it will blow a lung right out of a body. Many shooters consider the 9mm and the 38 Special to be underpowered or at the bottom of the list of acceptable rounds to be used for self defense.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 3, 2022)

Failzero said:


> I can have someone I know drive away with my rig and wait in the dark for the Break in too


Any your point is, the defense of your home depends upon you hiding in wait 24/7. Having a firearm deters no one as effectively as a o,er bora of other measures. The only security they provide, is in actual use which just isn’t happening.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jun 3, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> You guys sound positively unhinged.  You would rather see schools turned into armed encampments than consider giving up your guns.
> 
> Your priorities are mixed up.  I'd go so far to say that your priorities are psychopathic.


No; I'd rather see kids live.  You can take every AR-15 out of the country and it won't stop school shootings.  Many school and other mass shootings are handguns.  

You can ban large capacity magazines but it won't reduce the number of dead.  In most successful successful mass shootings, school or otherwise, AR-15 or otherwise, the shooter changes magazines at least once, often more than once.  Granted, this is an extreme example but it shows just what can be done with a revolver, 16 shots, including two reloads, in 4 seconds.


Here's a more reasonable expectation, still just a few seconds to reload a revolver


If you want to see kids live, and I don't believe any anti-gun Democrat does, then protect the children rather than attack the gun.  The first two things that can be done before kids go back to school in the fall, and the very first even before they return for summer school, are:


Temporarily, but immediately, put armed security at every school door.  Either off-duty cops or retired military or, if it's the only way, on-duty cops.
Harden the schools to restrict access:
Update all school doors to automatically close and lock, to be intrusion resistant, to report to the school office, district office, school security and the local police every time a school door is opened and closed,
Single point of entry when the school is occupied including man traps.
Tall fences, walls even, around schools.
When schools are properly hardened, the number of armed guards could be reduced to the main entry with the guard moving to other entries when needed - supply deliveries, etc.

Longer term things to work on are mental health and the damage done to children by the left telling all children that they are either in the abused/oppressed class or are abusers/oppressors.  No child goes through public, or most private, schools today being told that they're wonderful people with great opportunities ahead of them.   

Ensure that the government has zero authority to close schools in any health or pandemic for more than enough time to sanitize a facility that was exposed.  We use to quarantine the sick and exposed, not the healthy.  Ban mandatory masks and other things that lead to child insecurity.  Quit telling children without a mask that they're murdering their teachers.



All of the causes of school shootings lie directly at the feet of the left and the Democrats - without exception.  And then the Democrats want to place the blame on guns owned by law-abiding Americans.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jun 3, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> You get a permit and a firearm and a dog, or two.
> 
> The last thing you do is vote for anyone who supports the distribution of the most dangerous weapons to unqualified peoples. Geesus, that makes you less safe.
> 
> I live in the woods on a mountain where the roads get so slippery in the winter, no one gets in or out easily. That includes criminals. So you’re less likely to be confronted by criminals. Still, we’re all armed and have big dogs. That doesn’t mean we support anyone having unlicensed guns and dogs.


Is a licensed gun safer than an unlicensed gun?


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 3, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Next you are going to tell me that the President thinks hardening schools is a good idea.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That’s ridiculous. The hardening of schools money has Never been proposed or voted for by republicans. It would have to include minority schools as well, which the white supremest majority of republicans never vote for. Pkus, 5heir always inclusion of more firearms in schools is a non starter.


Republicans are hypocritical fools. 5heyvalwaysbinsist 5heir major events happen in gun free zones.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 3, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> No; I'd rather see kids live.  You can take every AR-15 out of the country and it won't stop school shootings.  Many school and other mass shootings are handguns.
> 
> You can ban large capacity magazines but it won't reduce the number of dead.  In most successful successful mass shootings, school or otherwise, AR-15 or otherwise, the shooter changes magazines at least once, often more than once.  Granted, this is an extreme example but it shows just what can be done with a revolver, 16 shots, including two reloads, in 4 seconds.
> 
> ...


Lots of hogwash. You obviously know little about  fire regulations.


----------



## toobfreak (Jun 3, 2022)

protectionist said:


> The fact remains that guns in the hands of trained, law-abiding people, are the best defense against criminals.



What Progs are really saying with all their gun angst is something they've been demonstrating for decades:  They're just too immature, irresponsible, violent and stupid to be trusted with a firearm---  if they aren't out there shooting themselves, they are a danger to the whole community.  The left are all a bunch of sick fucks-- -- just recently, one of them tried to smear cake all over the Mona Lisa but fortunately, the painting is protected behind bulletproof glass.  They took the perp in for psychological evaluation.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jun 3, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yep…..give us the gun law we want now….or we will take all of them
> 
> Then……give us the next gun law we want or we will take all of them
> 
> ...




Unfortunately, the response from most gun owners, including many of  the most vocal, so-called, self-proclaimed, gun rights supporters here is to support what they call reasonable restrictions - in other words, they support gun control that they like and only push back when it's something they don't like.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jun 3, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Despite your Stalinist fantasies, America is a democracy.  That means the government answers to us.


A democracy is where the majority gets to vote for slavery and slavery is enacted.  We're a constitutional republic and we have a constitution that limits what government, even the majority, can do to impose their will on  the minority.  That's a good thing.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jun 3, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> The only begging you hear are the parents at Uvalde begging your BLUE LINE to go in and save their kids.
> 
> I understand you probably find that funny as well.
> 
> Ha. ha. ha.


And the only thing that would have stopped the shooter sooner would have been a mother with an AR-15.  Even if she'd been fatally shot, in her dying breath she would have stopped the shooter.  Unlike Democrats and the Uvalde police, mothers would give their lives not just for their own children but for  your children.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jun 3, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> That’s all you think what makes an AR15 platform rifle ? You really don’t know much about firearms do you ?


Solder on the flash protector.  Weld on the magazine. So what?  How does that make the gun less deadly?  How does a barrel shroud make a gun more deadly?

I'd suggest that it's you that doesn't know about the AR platform but I think you do know.  You do know that not a single characteristic defined in the 1994 assault weapons ban made the gun more deadly.  You just choose  to participate in the lie.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jun 3, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Well, Americans are humans (with a few notable exceptions) and humans have been known to do some pretty draconian things.  You need only look around the world to see some examples.
> 
> Your "right" to a gun is WHOLLY ARBITRARY.  It isn't a law of nature.  It's something we all AGREED to let you have.  But it can go away.
> 
> Maybe you might want to try acting like an ADULT and discussing the issues rationally.  Or not.  See how well it works out in the long run for you.



You are wrong.  The right to keep and bear arms is absolutely a natural right.  It extends first from the right to life and also from the right to liberty.  If I have a right to life then I have the right to defend my life.  If those attempting to take my life have guns then I certainly have the right to guns in defense against them.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 3, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Exactly when is this going to happen ? Everyone who has ever purchased a firearm from an ffl dealer of had a state issued weapons permit, had a hunting license etc. has been know to posses a firearm.


The NRA will protect us and prevent it from happening.




Dagosa said:


> Do you have any proof in the last that the FEDERAL GOVT.  has had a. A pain of taking law abiding citizen’s guns away ? I’m still waiting for them to take mine. How about yours ? Any “takers”.


Well there is past history when it has happened.

Australia and the UK used to have gun registration and people would mock people who said the registration lists would be used to seize people's guns.

Then they outlawed many guns and used registration lists to enforce those bans.

New York City also did the same regarding semi-auto long guns that have pistol grips on them.  People used to mock those who said the registration lists would be abused.  Then those same people supported abusing the registration lists to seize guns after they were outlawed.

So we all know what progressives are trying to do.  No one will be fooled by claims that registration is harmless.


----------



## jbander (Jun 3, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> No; I'd rather see kids live.  You can take every AR-15 out of the country and it won't stop school shootings.  Many school and other mass shootings are handguns.
> 
> You can ban large capacity magazines but it won't reduce the number of dead.  In most successful successful mass shootings, school or otherwise, AR-15 or otherwise, the shooter changes magazines at least once, often more than once.  Granted, this is an extreme example but it shows just what can be done with a revolver, 16 shots, including two reloads, in 4 seconds.
> 
> ...


God You hate party members are  dumb fucks. Democrats fault, Mask Maggot. Good God, MAGA Maggots are brain-dead to the core. You killers are all a joke to this world. Laughingstock of every nation around the world. You have me rolling on the floor. Send one of you MAGA maggots and the only thing that will be shot is your own foot. These Killers are a joke.


----------



## jbander (Jun 3, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> You are wrong.  The right to keep and bear arms is absolutely a natural right.  It extends first from the right to life and also from the right to liberty.  If I have a right to life then I have the right to defend my life.  If those attempting to take my life have guns then I certainly have the right to guns in defense against them.


Here is what happens with that stupid scenario , In the process of you heroes protecting yourself you shot 473 people while 18,212 were killed in gun violence in just the first half of 2022. Tell me how that makes one ounce of sense. Gun Bubbas are complete, total idiots.


----------



## jbander (Jun 3, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Next you are going to tell me that the President thinks hardening schools is a good idea.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You have to understand that the bill was from Cruz and every patriot in this country have that type of traitor on ignore, Her won't get any bills passed. Want proof, he has written 339 bills,  7 stupid ones passed, everyone of the seven that got passed were total clown bills . If interested, I can list them for the humor of it.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jun 3, 2022)

jbander said:


> You have me rolling on the floor, I don't want any of you gun bubbas living by me, you are dangerous to everyone around, including your neighbors' pets, I would take a neighborhood full of immigrants any day over even one of you Gun Bubbas as a neighbor.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jun 3, 2022)

jbander said:


> You have to understand that the bill was from Cruz and every patriot in this country have that type of traitor on ignore, Her won't get any bills passed. Want proof, he has written 339 bills,  7 stupid ones passed, everyone of the seven that got passed were total clown bills . If interested, I can list them for the humor of it.


Wow.  You're as despicable and a low-life  as a human being can be.  How many children died because of scum like you so full of hate that your hate comes before the lives of children.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 3, 2022)

jbander said:


> You have to understand that the bill was from Cruz and every patriot in this country have that type of traitor on ignore, Her won't get any bills passed. Want proof, he has written 339 bills,  7 stupid ones passed, everyone of the seven that got passed were total clown bills . If interested, I can list them for the humor of it.


To me making schools more secure makes damn good sense. It will save lives. 

Trying to ban semi-automatic rifles is a waste of effort and will never pass in an election year. Especially since many first time gun owners are black and women.









						Boom: 5.4M first-time gun buyers, 33% women, blacks up 44%
					

First-time gun buyers continued to flood into firearms stores last year, broadening the once male and white market with women, blacks, Asians, and Hispanics.




					www.washingtonexaminer.com
				












						First-time buyers fuel pandemic-related surge in gun sales
					

It's been an unprecedented year for the firearms industry, which has seen a steady, pandemic-related surge in sales since Covid-19-related lockdowns began in March.




					www.cnn.com
				




Biden also managed to shoot himself in the foot when he started babbling about banning 9mm pistols that can blow the lung right out of a person. He wants to ban the most popular style of rifle and the most poplar caliber of pistol in the nation. All he will accomplish is to take the tittle of the world‘s best gun salesman away from Obama. We can look forward to another long period of time where guns are hard to buy and ammo is not available. 

Democrats should at least ry to learn a little about firearms before they try to legislate them. The AR-15 is used for hunting and the 9mm pistol is not a super powerful weapon that can extract a human lung with one shot. 









						Here Are 7 Animals Hunters Kill Using an AR-15
					

TIME talked to hunters about why they use this controversial semiautomatic rifle.




					time.com
				












						9mm Is Overwhelming 'Yes' Choice in GunReports Survey - Gun Tests
					

A recent tabulation of 529 respondents to a GunReports.com survey question, Is the 9mm suitable for self defense? showed a strong preference for the round. However, almost all respondents added comments to qualify their 'yes' votes.




					www.gun-tests.com
				




***snip***

_*Will a 9mm stop a threat? Probably. But it is better to be cautious on the side of excess than the other. If you fire at someone, the intent is to kill because your only firing due to your life being in immediate danger. I feel it’s better to stop a threat with the least amount of rounds….less chance of a round getting away from you, and more rounds in your gun in case you need them. Minimally I carry my .40 or .45, but usually I carry my Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan .454. A 3.5″ barrel makes it very comfortable even for an IWB holster. I have been carrying for 20 years, and I can’t count how many professionals advise carrying the largest caliber you can. If you have to carry a 9mm, then at least get the best carry ammo you can afford. –J. Cedar

If you can guarantee shot placement right between the eyes every time, sure the 9mm is adequate for self defense, even a .22 is adequate. And to be perfectly honest, it takes a real moron to continue the engagement after having been shot, even once by anything, if you’re talking self defense, not combat. But face it, morons are becoming the norm, so if you can’t guarantee shot placement, the next most important thing you can do is make as big a hole as possible, dumping as much energy as possible into the target, and that requires something bigger than a 9mm. –Chas.*_


----------



## Batcat (Jun 4, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> That’s ridiculous. The hardening of schools money has Never been proposed or voted for by republicans. It would have to include minority schools as well, which the white supremest majority of republicans never vote for. Pkus, 5heir always inclusion of more firearms in schools is a non starter.
> 
> 
> Republicans are hypocritical fools. 5heyvalwaysbinsist 5heir major events happen in gun free zones.


DeSantis is a Republican.









						Gov. DeSantis wants to give schools more flexibility in spending security funds
					

As part of the governor’s proposed budget, he wants an extra $100 million to improve the physical security of K-12 school buildings and an extra $10 million for mental health initiatives.




					www.wtsp.com
				




If either party is racist it is the Democratic Party. You are just projecting.









						Democrats Need Systemic Racism To Exist So Much, They Fake It
					

The Lincoln Project hoax to frame Glenn Youngkin as the candidate of racists reflects Democrats' desperation for systemic racism to persist.




					thefederalist.com
				












						Truth: Democrats Feed Racism to Control Our Black Community
					

after months of economic collapse, pandemic hysteria and racial anarchy, where 60 After years of Democrat Party abuse of Black America was revealed, black leadership still chooses the government as its vehicle to solve these indignities. Why? Because this is what the Democrats desire.




					pjmedia.com
				












						1619 Project, Touted as Racial Reckoning, Ignores Democratic Party Racism
					

Democrats who advanced a bill in June to remove statues of white supremacists from the U.S. Capitol ignored a central fact about those figures: All of them had been icons of their party, from Andrew J




					www.realclearinvestigations.com


----------



## woodwork201 (Jun 4, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> The NRA will protect us and prevent it from happening.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What is it with your constant suggestions about the NRA saving us?  Are you being facetious or mocking the lefties?


----------



## woodwork201 (Jun 4, 2022)

protectionist said:


> NRA only defends rights founders gave us in the 2nd amendment.  Ho hum. Yawn****


The Founders did NOT give us any rights in the 2nd Amendment.  It is a natural right and exists with or without the 2nd Amendment, with or without the Constitution even.  The 2nd Amendment forbade the government from infringing on an existing right.

The difference is critical.  That which the government grants, the government can take away.  If the 2nd Amendment is repealed, the right exists still.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jun 4, 2022)

protectionist said:


> All that is exactly what YOU are doing here.  Only thing you've accomplished is getting people to never read your posts again.


You're right; his posts are definitely without logic, law, reason, or any support.  His posts all stem from his hatred.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jun 4, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Lots of hogwash. You obviously know little about  fire regulations.


Totally wrong.  It is you  that knows nothing about fire regulations and systems.  Doors with magnetic locks can automatically unlock in a fire.  Doors that are locked and can't be opened from the outside can be configured to be opened from the inside.

I was in the back of a gas station/mini-mart to the restroom the other day.  The  back door exit was configured to allow immediate exit, triggering an alarm, from the inside.  From the outside, there's not even a handle.  I guess, to you Democrats, cases of Coca-cola products deserve better protection than do children.  Afterall, children are, to you, nothing more than a bag of cells.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 4, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> And the only thing that would have stopped the shooter sooner would have been a mother with an AR-15.  Even if she'd been fatally shot, in her dying breath she would have stopped the shooter.  Unlike Democrats and the Uvalde police, mothers would give their lives not just for their own children but for  your children.


So now, parents should be posted in classrooms armed with assault rifles ?


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 4, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Totally wrong.  It is you  that knows nothing about fire regulations and systems.  Doors with magnetic locks can automatically unlock in a fire.  Doors that are locked and can't be opened from the outside can be configured to be opened from the inside.
> 
> I was in the back of a gas station/mini-mart to the restroom the other day.  The  back door exit was configured to allow immediate exit, triggering an alarm, from the inside.  From the outside, there's not even a handle.  I guess, to you Democrats, cases of Coca-cola products deserve better protection than do children.  Afterall, children are, to you, nothing more than a bag of cells.


You know what happened. Maybe you were asleep. The door was left propped open. You must be naive. Literally anyone knocking at a door will be let in by unwary students. You live in a dream  world. I never heard such hog wash. The only sure fire way is to have every door monitored. Obviously gas station minimarts have no where near the traffic on one side as a school full of unaware fourth graders and six year olds. Your comments sound like you have never been in school.

The hilarious thing is, conservatives have all these bright ideas and NEVER vote to pay for it.....justmore guns. Idiocy


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 4, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> The NRA will protect us and prevent it from happening.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So, guns have never been confiscated from legal gun owners. It’s just fear mongering. Go it. Now go back to your closet and hide.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 4, 2022)

Batcat said:


> DeSantis is a Republican.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Let me repeat. They have never VOTED FOR IT. They make promises all the time. Remember better healthcare and infrastructure and hardening schools when they were in full control ? Never happened. Dems always voted for funds for school buildings. You guys are FOS and what anyone says like doofus DeSantis you mentioned  wants to do, is a fking lie.He never supported it in the past, never introduced legislation when in control, and never voted for it. 

The gop is a joke.
.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 4, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> You are wrong.  The right to keep and bear arms is absolutely a natural right.



No it's not.  Where do you get this stuff?



woodwork201 said:


> It extends first from the right to life and also from the right to liberty.



LOL.  No it doesn't.




woodwork201 said:


> If I have a right to life then I have the right to defend my life.



That does not ipso facto mean you have a right to a gun.  By your reasoning this means you have a right to a nuclear weapon.



woodwork201 said:


> If those attempting to take my life have guns then I certainly have the right to guns in defense against them.



You are certainly free to defend yourself.  That doesn't mean you have a "right" to access for any and every means.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 4, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> And the only thing that would have stopped the shooter sooner would have been a mother with an AR-15.  Even if she'd been fatally shot, in her dying breath she would have stopped the shooter.  Unlike Democrats and the Uvalde police, mothers would give their lives not just for their own children but for  your children.



Why don't you like police?  Do Blue Lives not matter to you?  Do you want to "defund the police"?


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 4, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> No; I'd rather see kids live.  You can take every AR-15 out of the country and it won't stop school shootings.  Many school and other mass shootings are handguns.
> 
> You can ban large capacity magazines but it won't reduce the number of dead.


----------



## jbander (Jun 4, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


>


Now that's just typically stupid, because in no cases do I believe in banning guns for anyone other than the people who support or attempted to bring down our democracy to force in a piece of shit for a dictator, they are traitors, and we are stupid to let a scum group like that own guns To help them destroy our country.  I thought they all should have been shot. That just shows how stupid your group is.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 4, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> No it's not.  Where do you get this stuff?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Exactly right.
They have a right to a well regulated militia, no more, no less. If they want to play with military weapons and still keep their civilian jobs , they can join the national guard.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 4, 2022)

jbander said:


> Now that's just typically stupid, because in no cases do I believe in banning guns for anyone other than the people who support or attempted to bring down our democracy to force in a piece of shit for a dictator, they are traitors, and we are stupid to let a scum group like that own guns To help them destroy our country.  I thought they all should have been shot. That just shows how stupid your group is.


Well, anyone Who thinks people aught to be shot just for a belief, probably qualifies as a mentally  unfit person to possess a firearm themselves.


----------



## jbander (Jun 4, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Wow.  You're as despicable and a low-life  as a human being can be.  How many children died because of scum like you so full of hate that your hate comes before the lives of children.


Can't you read, you idiot, the bill was ignored because all of Cruz's bills are ignored because he is nothing but a piece of shit and everyone knows it . One more time he has written
What an idiot, they should have been shot when they attacked our capital, beating and injuring 140 cops to bring down our democracy to force in a piece of shit for a dictator. Everyone who forced their way into the capital should have been shot. Bringing down our country is not a belief, no matter what the thinking is. You and everyone who supports that are scum and traitors to this country.


----------



## jbander (Jun 4, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> And the only thing that would have stopped the shooter sooner would have been a mother with an AR-15.  Even if she'd been fatally shot, in her dying breath she would have stopped the shooter.  Unlike Democrats and the Uvalde police, mothers would give their lives not just for their own children but for  your children.


Just MAGA maggot bullshit.


----------



## jbander (Jun 4, 2022)

Batcat said:


> To me making schools more secure makes damn good sense. It will save lives.
> 
> Trying to ban semi-automatic rifles is a waste of effort and will never pass in an election year. Especially since many first time gun owners are black and women.
> 
> ...


Typical MAGA Maggot bullshit, wanting to ban AR15 is not the same as banning all semi automatics. No bill will ever be presented to ban all semi automatics. That just how pitiful and stupid your group is to even try that as an argument. If it was presented, Democrats would vote against it stupid.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 4, 2022)

jbander said:


> Just MAGA maggot bullshit.


You sound like a walking time bomb. Though I agree with your general sentiment, the wording of it left a reader with the idea that supporters of the insurrection, even if they did not participate in any way, should be shot. That’s a low bar and a crime as well. If there was no direct personal  threat, we don’t  shoot people.


----------



## jbander (Jun 4, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> You sound like a walking time bomb. Though I agree with your general sentiment, the wording of it left a reader with the idea that supporters of the insurrection, even if they did not participate in any way, should be shot. That’s a low bar and a crime as well.


Then that would be their mistake, everyone who was involved should have been shot, everyone that was involved and supported it or supported the scum they were trying to force in as a dictator is a traitor to this great country. You can decide for yourself what should happen to people who support bringing down our democracy to force in a piece of shit for a dictator


----------



## jbander (Jun 4, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> You sound like a walking time bomb. Though I agree with your general sentiment, the wording of it left a reader with the idea that supporters of the insurrection, even if they did not participate in any way, should be shot. That’s a low bar and a crime as well. If there was no direct personal  threat, we don’t  shoot people.


What you are dealing with is someone who is totally fed up with the MAGA Maggots. . There isn't one honorable intentions among the hole group, they literally are this countries  biggest threat and enemy and in fact there is nothing that comes close to their threat level for America.
  In fact, I would suggest you yourself get on my bandwagon. Take a position and forget the be nice bullshit that will get you and your country nowhere.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 4, 2022)

jbander said:


> Then that would be their mistake, everyone who was involved should have been shot, everyone that was involved and supported it or supported the scum they were trying to force in as a dictator is a traitor to this great country. You can decide for yourself what should happen to people who support bringing down our democracy to force in a piece of shit for a dictator


By whom ? That declaration makes no more sense then saying every trespasser should be shot. If in the comitting of an insurrection there is a direct threat, that’s one thing. 95% of the insurrectionists  were dullard minions of Trump.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 4, 2022)

jbander said:


> In fact, I would suggest you yourself get on my bandwagon.


Hardly. There is no  justification IMO for  shooting anyone  that doesn‘t  not pose a direct physical threat. Recommending*  it puts you on the wrong side.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 4, 2022)

jbander said:


> Take a position and forget the be nice bullshit that will get you and your country nowhere.


Really ? You think  I’m being nice if I recommend they all be put  to trial in a public arena and sentenced to the maximum allowable time and share the cell with a known BFer. What ever is lawfully appropriate……..


----------



## Batcat (Jun 4, 2022)

jbander said:


> Typical MAGA Maggot bullshit, wanting to ban AR15 is not the same as banning all semi automatics. No bill will ever be presented to ban all semi automatics. That just how pitiful and stupid your group is to even try that as an argument. If it was presented, Democrats would vote against it stupid.


So why is Sleepy Joe talking about there being no reason to own a 9mm pistol?









						Biden goes on anti-gun tirade, suggests there’s ‘no rational basis’ for 9mm pistols
					

Biden ranted against ownership of what he called “high-caliber weapons” while appearing to rule out the possibility of taking major executive action on guns.




					nypost.com
				




How about Dianne Feinstein?









						'Turn 'Em All In': Feinstein Said She Wanted All Guns Banned
					

One of the lines that many progressives and TV talking heads are reiterating is that no one really wants to take away Americans' guns. Senator Dianne |




					www.breitbart.com
				




Many Democrats would love to pass gun legislation like exists in Canada where they are trying to ban all handguns.









						Canada moves to ban sale of handguns in sweeping bill introduced after Uvalde shooting
					

“It will no longer be possible to buy, sell, transfer or import handguns anywhere in Canada. In other words, we’re capping the market for handguns,” Trudeau said.




					nypost.com
				




You may think gun owners are stupid but we are wise to your incremental approach to banning the civilian ownership of most firearms. It’s like a camel sticking its nose under the tent.


----------



## jbander (Jun 4, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> By whom ? That declaration makes no more sense then saying every trespasser should be shot. If in the comitting of an insurrection there is a direct threat, that’s one thing. 95% of the insurrectionists  were dullard minions of Trump.


So if they had taken over, it would be no big deal because they were dullard minions of Trump. Maybe give that anther try. They weren't trespassers, they were insurrectionist trying to destroy our democracy and the country with it. Makes my point, try taking a stand.


----------



## jbander (Jun 4, 2022)

Batcat said:


> So why is Sleepy Joe talking about there being no reason to own a 9mm pistol?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Typical stupid MAGA maggot bullshit or distortion. He said nothing about banning 9mm and in  no way because they want to ban ar's doesn't in any way mean they want to ban every gun , that just stupid talk. Gun Bubba redneck stupid talk.


----------



## jbander (Jun 4, 2022)

Batcat said:


> So why is Sleepy Joe talking about there being no reason to own a 9mm pistol?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You people are such garbage brain idiots.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 4, 2022)

jbander said:


> Typical stupid MAGA maggot bullshit or distortion. He said nothing about banning 9mm and in  no way because they want to ban ar's doesn't in any way mean they want to ban every gun , that just stupid talk. Gun Bubba redneck stupid talk.


Give me a break. Biden said ’there was no rational basis’ for 9mm pistols. 









						Biden goes on anti-gun tirade, suggests there’s ‘no rational basis’ for 9mm pistols
					

Biden ranted against ownership of what he called “high-caliber weapons” while appearing to rule out the possibility of taking major executive action on guns.




					nypost.com
				




_President Biden ranted against ownership of what he called “high-caliber weapons” Monday — appearing to suggest that there should be restrictions on the most popular handgun in America, the 9mm pistol, and repeating a previously debunked claim that the Second Amendment prohibits ownership of cannons.

Speaking to reporters outside the White House after returning to Washington from a weekend that included a visit to the site of last week’s mass shooting in Texas, Biden recounted a visit to a trauma hospital in New York, where he said doctors had showed him X-rays of gunshot wounds caused by various firearms.

“They said a .22-caliber bullet will lodge in the lung, and we can probably get it out — may be able to get it and save the life,” Biden said. “A 9mm bullet blows the lung out of the body. 

“So the idea of these high-caliber weapons is, uh, there’s simply no rational basis for it in terms of thinking about self-protection, hunting,” the president went on._

***snip***

_Biden’s statements about 9mm pistols are in keeping with his rhetoric before entering the White House. At a 2019 fundraiser in Seattle, for example, then-candidate Biden asked his audience: “Why should we allow people to have military-style weapons including pistols with 9mm bullets and can hold 10 or more rounds?”_

*************
First you gun grabbers will try to ban and confiscate semi-automatic black rifles which you call “assault weapons” then you will move on banning all handguns like Canada hopes to do. 









						Canada Proposes Law to Ban Handgun Sales, Buy Back ‘Military-Style Assault Weapons’
					

Canada introduced legislation that would ban the sale, purchase, importation, or transfer of handguns in the country.




					news.yahoo.com
				




In the end Americans will be able to own a few firearms. Of course in order to own one you will have to go through a psychological examination and pay a yearly license fee of several hundred dollars per weapon or a bargain fee of $500 for the list below. You will also be limited to no more than 20 rounds for each weapon you own. All must be locked up and the ammo stored in a different room. 

1. One single shot .22 rifle

2. One single shot rifle in a caliber larger than .22. No scope allowed as that would make it a “sniper rifle.”

3) One shotgun either a single shot or a double barreled weapon. 

That’s every gun grabbers wet dream and you know it.


----------



## task0778 (Jun 4, 2022)

Batcat said:


> President Biden ranted against ownership of what he called “high-caliber weapons” Monday — appearing to suggest that there should be restrictions on the most popular handgun in America, the 9mm pistol, and repeating a previously debunked claim that the Second Amendment prohibits ownership of cannons.



What that is, is a preview of what comes next if they can ban assault weapons (whatever the definition of that is).  Specifically, they want to outlaw magazines that contain more than 10 rounds, which is a very large number of guns that would become illegal.  They're always saying we're not going to confiscate your guns, but what they want to do is make them illegal everywhere.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 4, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Let me repeat. They have never VOTED FOR IT. They make promises all the time. Remember better healthcare and infrastructure and hardening schools when they were in full control ? Never happened. Dems always voted for funds for school buildings. You guys are FOS and what anyone says like doofus DeSantis you mentioned  wants to do, is a fking lie.He never supported it in the past, never introduced legislation when in control, and never voted for it.
> 
> The gop is a joke.
> .


You say “The GOP is a joke” with the Democrat Joe Biden as President. You must be blind to what is happening under the Biden administration.

1) Gasoline and Diesel prices are *SKYROCKETING*.

2) Inflation is at a 30 year high.

3) Food and electrical shortages are expected this summer.

4) There is a shortage of baby formula which should have never happened.

5) Russia has invaded Ukraine and is threatenting to nuke NATO nations with its new Satin missiles. We may be in he first stage of WWIII.

6) China is preparing to invade Taiwan.

7) Iran is on the verge of producing a nuclear weapon.

8) Illegal aliens are crossing the Mexican border as are illegal drugs like fentanyl which are killing tens of thousands of Americans per year.  

It took Joe Biden less then 2 years to totally fuck everything up.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 4, 2022)

task0778 said:


> What that is, is a preview of what comes next if they can ban assault weapons (whatever the definition of that is).  Specifically, they want to outlaw magazines that contain more than 10 rounds, which is a very large number of guns that would become illegal.  They're always saying we're not going to confiscate your guns, but what they want to do is make them illegal everywhere.


Democrats believe gun owners are all uneducated rednecks who will not be able to figure out their incremental approach to disarming America. 

You can see just how smart Democrats really are with Joe Biden running the nation. It took less than two years to totally fuck everything up.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 4, 2022)

Batcat said:


> You say “The GOP is a joke” with the Democrat Joe Biden as President. You must be blind to what is happening under the Biden administration.
> 
> 1) Gasoline and Diesel prices are *SKYROCKETING*.
> 
> ...


Biden’s position on guns. You have a tough time flailing from one topic  to another. Try to stay grounded.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 4, 2022)

Batcat said:


> There is a shortage of baby formula which should have never happened.


That must really be of concern to the gun crowd when yo mumma isn’t  around to cook for you.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 4, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Give me a break. Biden said ’there was no rational basis’ for 9mm pistols.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yawn.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 4, 2022)

task0778 said:


> What that is, is a preview of what comes next if they can ban assault weapons (whatever the definition of that is).  Specifically, they want to outlaw magazines that contain more than 10 rounds, which is a very large number of guns that would become illegal.  They're always saying we're not going to confiscate your guns, but what they want to do is make them illegal everywhere.


This sounds way too complicated a topic for you to keep up with.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 4, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> That must really be of concern to the gun crowd when yo mumma isn’t  around to cook for you.


If the mother is out looking for baby formula a gun owner can always go to a fast food restaurant or open a can of chili. No problem. 

Some gun owners can even cook. I can make dynamite chili from scratch. No problem.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 4, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Biden’s position on guns. You have a tough time flailing from one topic  to another. Try to stay grounded.


Biden’s position on guns is another example of his failure. He keeps trying the same thing, (banning assault weapons) over and over again despite the fact he never gets anywhere.






Even during the last assault weapons ban you could legally buy an AR-15 style rifle if you wanted one and high capacity magazines were available and legal if manufactured before a set date but expensive.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 4, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Biden’s position on guns is another example of his failure. He keeps trying the same thing, (banning assault weapons) over and over again despite the fact he never gets anywhere.
> 
> View attachment 654027
> 
> Even during the last assault weapons ban you could legally buy an AR-15 style rifle if you wanted one and high capacity magazines were available and legal if manufactured before a set date but expensive.


Wow. You’re really into the military thing. That tells you the so called AR15 ban was useless.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 4, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Give me a break. Biden said ’there was no rational basis’ for 9mm pistols.


He’s right. It has two things going for it. It’s a very efficient pistol man killer, and the ammo is cheap.


----------



## jbander (Jun 4, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Give me a break. Biden said ’there was no rational basis’ for 9mm pistols.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bullshit, he said there is no rational need for a high caliber weapon. The biggest threat to the second is you gun Bubba Thinking there should be no regulation of guns. People are sick and tired of you pukes, right now the majority in this country think there should be more regulations. And It is mostly because of you ignorant idiots and your stand on guns. So stupidity will help the cause, your stupidity, that is. More regulations and no one who tried to bring down our democracy or supported that or supported Trump should be able to have a gun, You don't let your country's enemy have guns.


----------



## jbander (Jun 4, 2022)

Batcat said:


> You say “The GOP is a joke” with the Democrat Joe Biden as President. You must be blind to what is happening under the Biden administration.
> 
> 1) Gasoline and Diesel prices are *SKYROCKETING*.
> 
> ...


What a stupid list that Biden has nothing to do with. I love it when the right comes on this stupid about anything , it pleads my case for me. My case being that MAGA Maggots are dumber than door knobs.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 4, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Biden’s position on guns is another example of his failure. He keeps trying the same thing, (banning assault weapons) over and over again despite the fact he never gets anywhere.
> 
> View attachment 654027
> 
> Even during the last assault weapons ban you could legally buy an AR-15 style rifle if you wanted one and high capacity magazines were available and legal if manufactured before a set date but expensive.


Geesus, the guy couldn’t  get nominated in three try’s on his own. He’s an poor choice. But he beat Trump and he’d beat him  again by an even greater margin. Even those dumb enough to vote for Trump  the first time  are tired  of him. Trump is a loser and his minions are losers.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 4, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Biden’s position on guns is another example of his failure. He keeps trying the same thing, (banning assault weapons) over and over again despite the fact he never gets anywhere.
> 
> View attachment 654027
> 
> Even during the last assault weapons ban you could legally buy an AR-15 style rifle if you wanted one and high capacity magazines were available and legal if manufactured before a set date but expensive.


Biden has United  NATO, passed infrastructure bill and provided free covid shots for everyone more efficiently then Trump ever could and if with our help Russia is defeated in Ukraine it will be the greatest free world supported effort vs a tyrant since ww2. Oh, and his first budget has lowered the deficit over Trumps tax giveaway.


----------



## jbander (Jun 4, 2022)

I think it is time to take away all the guns of the people who tried to destroy our democracy to force in a piece of shit, as a dictator, on 1/6. And that includes anyone who supported these traitors to our country, Also Guns should be taken away from anyone who supports the person who made this take over happen, Trump.       IT is only logical that You do everything possible to keep weapons out of the hands of this countries  biggest threat and enemy. Being a traitor to our democracy and  country is the best reason out there to take away their guns.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 4, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Wow. You’re really into the military thing. That tells you the so called AR15 ban was useless.


The only thing the last assault weapons ban did was make semi-automatic rifles like the AR-15 popular. Up to that ban most people preferred bolt action rifles or semi-auto rifles with nice wood stocks for hunting or target shooting. 

Anytime you ban something it becomes more attractive. A few gun enthusiasts bought either AR or AK rifles and discovered they were reliable and accurate and told other gun enthusiasts. The black, military style rifles became more and more popular despite the ban. 

The biggest advantage of the AR-15 in my opinion is its versatility. He has been called the Swiss knife of firearms. It can be modified by the owner in ways that used to require a gunsmith. 









						Why Is the AR-15 Platform So Popular?
					

We take a look at the AR platform and talk about what's made this rifle, in specific, so popular and widely loved.




					www.pewpewtactical.com
				












						Guns Like The AR-15 Were Never Fully Banned
					

Omar Mateen, the Orlando shooter, used an AR-15-style semi-automatic rifle and a 9 mm semi-automatic pistol to kill 49 people at the Pulse nightclub Sunday. The…




					fivethirtyeight.com


----------



## Batcat (Jun 4, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Biden has United  NATO, passed infrastructure bill and provided free covid shots for everyone more efficiently then Trump ever could and if with our help Russia is defeated in Ukraine it will be the greatest free world supported effort vs a tyrant since ww2. Oh, and his first budget has lowered the deficit over Trumps tax giveaway.


Gasoline prices have skyrocketed under Biden and now we have inflation again after three decades. Russia has invaded Ukraine and could possibly still win by using tactical nukes. If that happens we may have WWIII and a Russian EMP bomb could cut our electricity for months to years. China is planning to invade Taiwan. Iran is on the verge of developing nukes. Illegals are swimming across the Mexican border along with powerful drugs like fentanyl which is killing hundreds of thousands of Americans.

Joe Biden is the worst President in our history. Plus the old demented fool is as corrupt a politician as you can find.









						Is Biden the Worst President in U.S. History? He’s Doing His Best To Earn The Title
					

It is a question that has probably entered the minds of millions of Americans as they watch their country disappear: is Joe Biden the worst president in U.S. history? Many presidents have been called the worst. They were judged in their respective eras for falling short of any objective, for...




					www.gopusa.com
				












						Biden’s approval rating drops to new low
					

A majority of Americans disapprove of President Biden’s job performance and most are unhappy with the way things are going in the country.




					www.deseret.com
				












						At This Point in Presidency, Biden Is the Most Unpopular US Leader Since World War II
					

Joe Biden still has appallingly low approval numbers, even lower than Bill Clinton's. He is setting a new low bar for the presidency.




					www.westernjournal.com
				












						The Biden family scheme unravels
					

President Biden stands by his pre-election statement that Hunter never received any money from China, and he continues to deny that he knew anything about his son’s dealings.




					nypost.com


----------



## skye (Jun 4, 2022)

Bidet is an idiot and all the thugs in this stolen Administration along with him are too.

I wonder if he has ever read a history book.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 4, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> So, guns have never been confiscated from legal gun owners. It’s just fear mongering. Go it. Now go back to your closet and hide.


No fear mongering.  The fact that the left outlaws guns before confiscating them does not change the fact that the left intentionally abuses registration lists to confiscate people's guns.




Dagosa said:


> Exactly right.
> They have a right to a well regulated militia, no more, no less.


That is incorrect.  We have the right to keep and bear arms.




Dagosa said:


> If they want to play with military weapons and still keep their civilian jobs , they can join the national guard.


Or we can just go buy military weapons.




Dagosa said:


> He’s right.


No he isn't.  Traitor Joe is once again lying about guns.  The 9mm is appropriate for defense against criminals, as is demonstrated by the police's frequent use of it for defense against criminals.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 4, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> What is it with your constant suggestions about the NRA saving us?


The NRA routinely prevents the passage of laws that would violate our civil liberties.




woodwork201 said:


> Are you being facetious or mocking the lefties?


No.

Well, I'm always mocking the lefties.  But my reference to the fact that the NRA upholds and enforces the Constitution is not meant as any kind of specific mocking.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 4, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


>


Fake news.  Never happened.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 5, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> isn't. Traitor Joe is once again lying about guns. The 9mm is appropriate for defense against criminals, as is demonstrated by the police's frequent use of it for defense against criminals.


As is a plethora of other revolver calibers. It’s made up shit.
The average self defense  is fewer then three shots. i am much better prepared for self defense shooting a . 38 snubby  through a pocket then you are fumbling to rack a slide or disengaging a safety. You don’t stand a chance with a criminal armed with a revolver who already has his weapon drawn. One of the most common  and sought after firearms among criminals is still a revolver.




__





						TonyRogers.com - The Top 10 Guns Used In Crime - BATF Statistics
					

Tony Rogers -



					tonyrogers.com
				




They are so much quicker and reliable it’s a farce to claim otherwise. Plus, .38/.357 are ligit reloads and hunting variations. Fk around with the slug and load of a 9 mm, it jams. Nope….9 mm are military rounds first. It’s obvious you don’t know what your talking about.


----------



## jbander (Jun 5, 2022)

Batcat said:


> The only thing the last assault weapons ban did was make semi-automatic rifles like the AR-15 popular. Up to that ban most people preferred bolt action rifles or semi-auto rifles with nice wood stocks for hunting or target shooting.
> 
> Anytime you ban something it becomes more attractive. A few gun enthusiasts bought either AR or AK rifles and discovered they were reliable and accurate and told other gun enthusiasts. The black, military style rifles became more and more popular despite the ban.
> 
> ...


It's a total killing machine and that is the reason the Gun Bubbas love it, it tells the whole world how big their cock is. They are the real heroes of this world. Big Junk Gun BUbba.


----------



## jbander (Jun 5, 2022)

skye said:


> Bidet is an idiot and all the thugs in this stolen Administration along with him are too.
> 
> I wonder if he has ever read a history book.
> 
> ...


Wacko!!!!!!


----------



## jbander (Jun 5, 2022)

BY the way we should point out that there is a complete difference between Gun Owners and Gun Bubbas, what is here are all gun Bubbas, The AR15 bang bang group. ME got big unit group.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 5, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> As is a plethora of other revolver calibers.


Other calibers are irrelevant to the fact that the 9mm is suitable for defense against criminals.




Dagosa said:


> It’s made up shit.


No it isn't.  Reality is quite real.




Dagosa said:


> The average self defense  is fewer then three shots. i am much better prepared for self defense shooting a . 38 snubby  through a pocket then you are fumbling to rack a slide or disengaging a safety. You don’t stand a chance with a criminal armed with a revolver who already has his weapon drawn. One of the most common  and sought after firearms among criminals is still a revolver.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you choose to use revolvers, good for you.

Just keep in mind that you don't get to choose for anyone else.




Dagosa said:


> It’s obvious you don’t know what your talking about.


No.  You are the only person here who has no idea what they are talking about.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 5, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Democrats believe gun owners are all uneducated rednecks who will not be able to figure out their incremental approach to disarming America.
> 
> You can see just how smart Democrats really are with Joe Biden running the nation. It took less than two years to totally fuck everything up.


You had your chance with Trump. He left the country a mess. In typical fashion you’re now complaining Biden isn’t fixing it fast enough.




Open Bolt said:


> Other calibers are irrelevant to the fact that the 9mm is suitable for defense against criminals.


it’s a military cartridge like the .223 designed for mass killing In high capacity magazines.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 5, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> it’s a military cartridge like the .223 designed for mass killing In high capacity magazines.


OK... And??

Is there a point?


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 5, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> you choose to use revolvers, good for you.
> 
> Just keep in mind that you don't get to choose for anyone else.


You choose to lie about firearms used in mass shootings out of ignorance or support of criminal intent.
like the .223, the 9 mm is a military cartridge.

Its still valued today by the criminal minded as sub machine rounds and high cap pistol  and carbines deemed   essential for mass killing and maximum effectiveness.

“1902, DWM firearms designer Georg Luger developed the 9mm Parabellum *as a service cartridge*, designed for the DWM Luger semi-automatic pistol called the Pistole Parabellum, akathe Luger. He designed it to be lethal at 50 meters. This new caliber improved on the previous handgun ammunition, which was large and heavy. Still today, the compact cart...”


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 5, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> OK... And??
> 
> Is there a point?


Yes. The military is intent on  shooting as many people as efficiently as possible. The police ONLY adopted this round(s)  as a response to the PUBLIC use Of them in criminal activity. The use by criminals is aided and abetted by the gun a holics transferring them into the criminal market by private sales.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 5, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> OK... And??
> 
> Is there a point?


Biden is right.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 5, 2022)

jbander said:


> BY the way we should point out that there is a complete difference between Gun Owners and Gun Bubbas, what is here are all gun Bubbas, The AR15 bang bang group. ME got big unit group.


If you are referring to penis size with your comment about “a big unit“ group how did you determine the average penis size of your Gun Owner Group was bigger than than the Gun Bubba group. 

I doubt you walked up to a Gun Bubba and asked him to drop his pants so you could measure him. If you did, you definitely have some big balls. If you did and walked away without a broken nose you were damn lucky,


----------



## Leo123 (Jun 5, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...


I think Biden should ban 'assault rifles' from the Secret Service first.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 5, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> You had your chance with Trump. He left the country a mess. In typical fashion you’re now complaining Biden isn’t fixing it fast enough.
> 
> 
> 
> it’s a military cartridge like the .223 designed for mass killing In high capacity magazines.


Biden is NOT fixing anything. He is destroying all the good that Trump managed to accomplish. 

Biden can’t even handle to baby formula shortage.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 5, 2022)

jbander said:


> It's a total killing machine and that is the reason the Gun Bubbas love it, it tells the whole world how big their cock is. They are the real heroes of this world. Big Junk Gun BUbba.


You have an odd fascination with Big Junk. That leads me to suspect you are under endowed.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 5, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> You choose to lie about firearms used in mass shootings out of ignorance or support of criminal intent.


That is incorrect.  Everything that I said is true.




Dagosa said:


> like the .223, the 9 mm is a military cartridge.


So what?

I guess you intend to bombard the board with irrelevant trivia.




Dagosa said:


> Its still valued today by the criminal minded as sub machine rounds and high cap pistol and carbines deemed essential for mass killing and maximum effectiveness.


Criminals value the 9mm for its use in compact handguns.  The mere existence of compact 9mm handguns as a popular weapon is entirely the fault of progressives and their 1994 ban on magazines over ten rounds.




Dagosa said:


> “1902, DWM firearms designer Georg Luger developed the 9mm Parabellum *as a service cartridge*, designed for the DWM Luger semi-automatic pistol called the Pistole Parabellum, akathe Luger. He designed it to be lethal at 50 meters. This new caliber improved on the previous handgun ammunition, which was large and heavy. Still today, the compact cart...”


So what?




Dagosa said:


> Yes. The military is intent on shooting as many people as efficiently as possible.


So what?

I mean, all this trivia that you keep posting is interesting I guess, but I'm not seeing any point.




Dagosa said:


> The police ONLY adopted this round(s) as a response to the PUBLIC use Of them in criminal activity.


Criminals only started using them after the left's 1994 ban on magazines over ten rounds resulted in the proliferation of compact 9mm handguns.  Before that, compact 9mm guns weren't a major part of the gun market.

Progressives always make everything worse.




Dagosa said:


> The use by criminals is aided and abetted by the gun a holics transferring them into the criminal market by private sales.


The use by criminals was aided and abetted by progressives creating the entire market for compact 9mm guns when they outlawed magazines larger than ten rounds.




Dagosa said:


> Biden is right.


No he isn't.  Everything that he says is a lie.


----------



## laferia52 (Jun 5, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...


bedpan joe is an idiot


----------



## jbander (Jun 5, 2022)

Batcat said:


> You have an odd fascination with Big Junk. That leads me to suspect you are under endowed.


Not me but when you buy guns to show PEOPLE THE SIZE OF YOUR rocks NOW that's weird. And that is the only REASON THAT YOUR AR15 AND AR15 TYPE GUNS ARE BIG WITH YOUR GROUP. You micro penis people buy big guns for obvious reasons. Everyone knows that. That's just common knowledge.


----------



## jbander (Jun 5, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Biden is NOT fixing anything. He is destroying all the good that Trump managed to accomplish.
> 
> Biden can’t even handle to baby formula shortage.


You aren't going to make a case with Q anon crap. You are just boring the hell out of everyone with yours lies.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 5, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Biden is NOT fixing anything. He is destroying all the good that Trump managed to accomplish.
> 
> Biden can’t even handle to baby formula shortage.


The good ? He mismanaged Covid, had a recession and lost tens of  thousands of jobs. Biden has the unimployment rate down to 3.6% from 6.3% when Trump left office. The growth in employment is the biggest in history of a one year period. Trump bragged when it was 6%. What a dufus . We have inflation driven by oil prices because of covid  mismanagement and every form transportation shut down and oil companies stopped pumping oil. Oh, it’s there. The oil companies have yet to increase production to pre Covid levels.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 5, 2022)

laferia52 said:


> bedpan joe is an idiot


Joe beat Trump by 7 million and a landslide electorate victory. What does that make Trump if Biden outsmarted him.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 6, 2022)

jbander said:


> You aren't going to make a case with Q anon crap. You are just boring the hell out of everyone with yours lies.


What does QAnon have to do with a shortage in baby formula and sky high gasoline prices? 

In passing I never paid much attention to QAnon to begin with. After a couple predictions flopped I ignored his conspiracy theories. 









						QAnon - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




_*QAnon*[a] (/ˈkjuː.əˌnɒn/) is a political conspiracy theory that later evolved into a  political movement. It originated in the American far-right political sphere. QAnon centers on false claims made by an anonymous individual or individuals known as "Q". The core QAnon theory is that a cabal of Satanic,[1][2][3] cannibalistic sexual abusers of children operating a global child sex trafficking ring conspired against former U.S. President Donald Trump during his term in office.[7] QAnon has direct roots in Pizzagate, an internet conspiracy theory that appeared one year earlier; it also incorporates elements of many other theories.[8] Some experts have described QAnon as a cult.[9]
Followers of the conspiracy theory say that Trump is secretly fighting the cabal of pedophiles, and will conduct mass arrests and executions of thousands of cabal members on a day known as "the Storm" or "the Event".[10] QAnon supporters have named Democratic politicians, Hollywood actors, high-ranking government officials, business tycoons, and medical experts as members of the cabal.[11] QAnon has also claimed that Trump stimulated the conspiracy of Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election to enlist Robert Mueller to join him in exposing the sex trafficking ring, and to prevent a coup d'état by Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and George Soros.[12][13] QAnon is described as antisemitic or rooted in antisemitic tropes, due to its fixation on Jewish financier George Soros and conspiracy theories about the Rothschild family, a frequent target of antisemites.[14][15] QAnon's conspiracy theories have been amplified by Russian and Chinese state-backed media companies, social media troll accounts,[20][16][21] and the far-right Falun Gong-associated Epoch Media Group.[27]_


----------



## Batcat (Jun 6, 2022)

jbander said:


> Not me but when you buy guns to show PEOPLE THE SIZE OF YOUR rocks NOW that's weird. And that is the only REASON THAT YOUR AR15 AND AR15 TYPE GUNS ARE BIG WITH YOUR GROUP. You micro penis people buy big guns for obvious reasons. Everyone knows that. That's just common knowledge.


Common knowledge is often bullshit.

Show me a real survey where people who own large firearms, drive big pickup trucks or expensive cars have smaller penises than the average  bloke. 

I don’t believe one has ever happened. 

Plus if you were not so concerned about penis size as you obviously are you would realize that women are not all that fond of over endowed men. It isn’t how big you are but how well you use what you have. 









						Google data reveals your most perverted secrets
					

On the whole, American men like to project sexual confidence, but an analysis of Internet searches tells another story entirely — that they are gravely concerned about the size of their penises. “M…




					nypost.com
				




***snip***

Google searches indicate that penis size is far more important to men than it is to women.

“For every search women make about a partner’s phallus,” Stephens-Davidowitz writes, “men make roughly 170 searches about their own.”

_In addition, women’s concerns about penis size are often the opposite of what men fear, as “more than 40 percent of complaints about a partner’s penis size say that it’s too big.”

The second-most common search by men, Stephens-Davidowitz found, is “how to make their sexual encounters longer.” But here too, their concerns conflict with women’s, as “there are roughly the same number of searches asking how to make a boyfriend climax more quickly as climax more slowly.”

Of course, Google searches reveal that women too have their own body hang-ups — but their concerns have changed over time.

In 2004, “the most common search regarding changing one’s butt was how to make it smaller,” Stephens-Davidowitz writes. But thanks to J.Lo, Kim Kardashian and other large-bottomed beauties taking center stage, this desire did a 180 over a decade.

“In 2014, there were more searches asking how to make your butt bigger than smaller in every state,” Stephens-Davidowitz writes. “These days, for every five searches looking into breast implants in the United States, there is one looking into butt implants.”_


----------



## jackflash (Jun 6, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...


Prez Biden is the Marxists joke on the American constituency.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 6, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> The good ? He mismanaged Covid, had a recession and lost tens of  thousands of jobs. Biden has the unimployment rate down to 3.6% from 6.3% when Trump left office. The growth in employment is the biggest in history of a one year period. Trump bragged when it was 6%. What a dufus . We have inflation driven by oil prices because of covid  mismanagement and every form transportation shut down and oil companies stopped pumping oil. Oh, it’s there. The oil companies have yet to increase production to pre Covid levels.


Joe Biden bears a lot of responsibility for the rising gasoline prices. 









						Biden Didn't Shut U.S. Oil Production, Partially to Blame for High Gas Prices
					

Many are speculating that Biden shut down U.S. oil production and that he's to blame for record-high gas prices in the country. Here's what we know.




					marketrealist.com
				




***snip***

_Is Biden to blame for high gas prices?
Biden isn't fully to blame for high gas prices. However, he has much lower leverage over major oil-producing nations in the Middle East, unlike his predecessor Trump who enjoyed a good relationship with major OPEC countries. Trump also mediated what he called a “historic” oil production cut deal when global crude oil prices plunged in 2020.
Biden has announced the gradual release of 180 million barrels of oil from the U.S. strategic reserves. However, it doesn't seem to be having much impact at least in the short term._


----------



## Mortimer (Jun 6, 2022)

Guns do not kill people criminals do. There is no reason why law abiding citizens should have on their 2nd amendment rights infringed.


----------



## protectionist (Jun 6, 2022)

jbander said:


> Not me but when you buy guns to show PEOPLE THE SIZE OF YOUR rocks NOW that's weird. And that is the only REASON THAT YOUR AR15 AND AR15 TYPE GUNS ARE BIG WITH YOUR GROUP. You micro penis people buy big guns for obvious reasons. Everyone knows that. That's just common knowledge.


What is your idea (definition) of _*"AR15 TYPE GUNS"*_


----------



## protectionist (Jun 6, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> The good ? He mismanaged Covid, had a recession and lost tens of  thousands of jobs. Biden has the unimployment rate down to 3.6% from 6.3% when Trump left office. The growth in employment is the biggest in history of a one year period. Trump bragged when it was 6%. What a dufus . We have inflation driven by oil prices because of covid  mismanagement and every form transportation shut down and oil companies stopped pumping oil. Oh, it’s there. The oil companies have yet to increase production to pre Covid levels.


You are obviously very ignorant, to the point that you really shouldn't be posting here.

1) Trump did not start the Covid menace, but his response to it was very GOOD >>>

Through the COVID pandemic, our Covid mortality rate was *REDUCED from over 17,000/week in April 2020, to about 2000/week in June, and remained very low* throughout the year, as a result of the many smart things that Trump did.
*90% REDUCTION. > HUGE SUCCESS*.

Massive production of Ventilators - These were left in short supply after the Obama/Biden admin (we now have so many we're exporting them),
the Navy hospital ships sent to New York & LA.
the stimulus checks,
The Task Force advice (ex. social distancing),
opposition/criticism of New York's dumb nursing home policies,
federal aid to hospitals, rapidly expanding production & distribution of medical supplies
travel bans (which Democrats called Trump a "racist' for),
Trump's advocacy of Hydroxychloriquin (now proven to be effective, despite criticism from Democrats), and Regeneron.
fast, continual development of a vaccine, and rapid success of Operation Warp Speed.
Created & signed the MISSION ACT, replacing the failed Obama Choice Act

2)  If you are referring to the first 2 quarters of 2020, that was not Trump having a recession, that was a Democrat/Pandemic caused recession, brought about by Covid lockdowns, combined with Pelosi's refusals to allow stimulus checks to be sent out.
Immediately afterward, Trump scored the *biggest GAIN IN GDP (33.8%) in US history* in the 3rd quarter of 2020.  Almost laughable how Democrats try to portray all this. lol

3) Your talk about the unemployment rate is again using the pandemic and its lag effects, to try to bash Trump, and praise Biden. Again laughable, nice try. Actually, Trump's record on unemployment was very admirable. Despite the pandemic and all its oddities, Trump brought unemployment from it's PANDEMIC RATE of 14.7% (April 2020) down to 6.4% (Jan. 2021), a drop of 8.3, in only 10 months, and that was in spite of all the pandemic irregularities and chaos going on at the time.

Your bumbling Biden, in contrast, (using your numbers) has brought the unemployment rate down 2.7 - ie. only 1/3 as much as what Trump did, despite Biden having 16 months (6 more than Trump's record) to work with it.

So when Trump _"bragged when it was 6%", _as you say, he was right, and he had plenty to brag about. YOU are the "dufus".

4)  As for the gas prices, Democrats can BS it all they want, but they aren't fooling anybody.  Everybody knows Biden, at war with the fossil fuel industry, shut down oil/gas production, as he said he would in the 2020 debates.  But even the gas price inflation (200+%) isnt as bad as the rental housing inflation skyrocketing at 200-300% inflation, and these are dollar amounts far greater than gas prices at the pump.

I myself, was forced to move twice since Biden took over, with rents instantly jumping in amounts of HUNDREDS of $$.  Apartment I had just 5 months ago at $600/mo, is now $1200/mo.  Others have gone up far more than that, and 1 bedroom apts rountinely rent for $2000/mo now.   So how was Biden involved ?
He opened up the border, let millions of illegal aliens (VOTES for him he thinks) in, and airlifted them to cities all over the country.  Many of these migrants are from many different countries, and have lots of money.  Rent control is absent (or even banned) in almost every state in the US, and rents have skyrocketed.

All these things are the reason why Biden's approval rating is at record low level, and the RED WAVE of November 2022 is approaching.


----------



## protectionist (Jun 6, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Joe beat Trump by 7 million and a landslide electorate victory. What does that make Trump if Biden outsmarted him.


A crime victim.


----------



## protectionist (Jun 6, 2022)

jbander said:


> It's a total killing machine and that is the reason the Gun Bubbas love it, it tells the whole world how big their cock is. They are the real heroes of this world. Big Junk Gun BUbba.


FALSE! it's an ordinary rifle that looks mean.  Liberals know nothing about guns.


----------



## protectionist (Jun 6, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> You had your chance with Trump. He left the country a mess. In typical fashion you’re now complaining Biden isn’t fixing it fast enough.


In Trump's next to last quarter, his GDP was 33.8% growth - by far, the highest in US history.  When Trump left, the Mexican border was more secure than any time since Eisenhower was president, terrorists were being kept out, median wage was highest in US history, blacks & Hispanics' unemployment was lowest in US history, US was energy independent., inflation was 1.4% (now it's 8.3%, except gasoline and housing rents which are 200-300%)

Numbskull Biden couldn't fix a loose band-aid, or even read a teleprompter.


----------



## jbander (Jun 6, 2022)

Batcat said:


> What does QAnon have to do with a shortage in baby formula and sky high gasoline prices?
> 
> In passing I never paid much attention to QAnon to begin with. After a couple predictions flopped I ignored his conspiracy theories.
> 
> ...


Because it is bullshit , trying to blame it on Biden , is beyond stupid. Everything you write is like this , you are a candidate to just put on ignore for wasting bandwidth.


----------



## jbander (Jun 6, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Common knowledge is often bullshit.
> 
> Show me a real survey where people who own large firearms, drive big pickup trucks or expensive cars have smaller penises than the average  bloke.
> 
> ...


Go away


----------



## jbander (Jun 6, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Joe Biden bears a lot of responsibility for the rising gasoline prices.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He bears no responsibility, you are just stupid , thats the only point here.


----------



## jbander (Jun 6, 2022)

Mortimer said:


> Guns do not kill people criminals do. There is no reason why law abiding citizens should have on their 2nd amendment rights infringed.


There are lots of reasons, probably the biggest is, so they don't shoot themselves in the foot or kill their neighbor or children by their stupidity. At this point I would settle for just taking away the guns of anyone involved or supported the attempt to overthrow our democracy on jan6 to force in a piece of shit for a dictator, we as a country are stupid if we let these traitors have guns  because if trump ask them to kill for him, they will in their next attempt to destroy our democracy and country. When they try again, I say, shoot every last one of them.


----------



## jbander (Jun 6, 2022)

protectionist said:


> What is your idea (definition) of _*"AR15 TYPE GUNS"*_


Sure no problem ,any gun that was designed to destroy as much tissue as possible, like blowing a foot right off with one shot. Or putting a whole in your target big enough to put your fist through destroying a 4-6inch whole in that body. That hardly makes for a hunting gun, unless you are just looking for hamburger, all guns in that form.


----------



## jbander (Jun 6, 2022)

protectionist said:


> You are obviously very ignorant, to the point that you really shouldn't be posting here.
> 
> 1) Trump did not start the Covid menace, but his response to it was very GOOD >>>
> 
> ...


You are one brain dead butt kisser. Trump said it will be gone in a month, he wanted you to drink bleach and put a lightbulb up your ass for A CURE, The piece of shit said it was a Democratic plot or that democrats cause it on purpose.  He killed hundreds of thousands with his lies about covid and the numbers prove it. One day like a miracle it will disappear. The pandemic is “fading away. It’s going to fade away.”*The claim: *“99%” of COVID-19 cases are “totally harmless.”*The claim:* Mexico is partly to blame for COVID-19 surges in the Southwest.*The claim:* Children are “virtually immune” to COVID-19.The U.S. has “among the lowest case-fatality rates of any major country anywhere in the world.”*The claim:* America is “rounding the corner” and “rounding the final turn” of the pandemic.The media is over blowing fears about the virus ahead of Election Day.What happens is, you get better” after being sick with COVID-19. “That's what happens: You get better.” “You get better and then you’re immune.” A CDC study shows that “85 percent of the people wearing masks catch” the virus. THE MAN OS AND WAS THE BIGGEST PIECE OF SHIT IN THE HISTORY OF AMERICAN POLITICS < HE CAUSED 100 OF THOUSANDS OF DEATHS WITH THESE LIES ABOVE < BY THE WAY THAT IS JUST A SMALL SAMPLE OF HIS LIES>


----------



## jbander (Jun 6, 2022)

protectionist said:


> FALSE! it's an ordinary rifle that looks mean.  Liberals know nothing about guns.


Bullshit , Ya the military selects guns that are nothing but good clean hunting guns , They are great if you want hamburger. You are one dumb fuck.


----------



## jbander (Jun 6, 2022)

They keep coming and these assholes get stupider and stupider.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 6, 2022)

jbander said:


> He bears no responsibility, you are just stupid , thats the only point here.


You just stated your opinion. You obviously have an inflated view of your intelligence.

Biden takes office after saying he wants to destroy the oil industry and the price of gasoline skyrockets. You lack the ability to see what is happening.

But at least you are a good Democrat sheeple.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 6, 2022)

jbander said:


> Go away


Don’t fret so much about your lack of endowment. It’s no big deal.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 6, 2022)

jbander said:


> Because it is bullshit , trying to blame it on Biden , is beyond stupid. Everything you write is like this , you are a candidate to just put on ignore for wasting bandwidth.


I bet if there was a survey today the majority of those survey would say Joe Biden is responsible for the increasing price of gasoline.

Here is one from a couple of months ago, a Scott Rasmussen national survey. The results would be even worse today. 



			https://www.newsmax.com/scottrasmussen/gas-prices/2022/03/17/id/1061671/
		


Now it is your turn to back up your posts. Find an article that says Joe Biden is in no way responsible for the price of gasoline or a survey that says the same thing. 

if you can’t it is you that is waisting bandwidth.


----------



## jbander (Jun 6, 2022)

Batcat said:


> If you consider every gun owner in your neighborhood as a “nut job” who is dangerous to you, it makes me wonder if you are a criminal.
> 
> Criminals dislike civilian gun owners for good reason. It makes their workplace dangerous.


Stupid waste of bandwidth!


----------



## jbander (Jun 6, 2022)

Batcat said:


> When you are getting shoot outs in the middle of the day in New York City you would think anyone caught illegally carrying a gun would be in big trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


19 states , that's whole states that are more dangerous than New York, all of them are  hate party states. You are an idiot. And obviously totally lame.


----------



## jbander (Jun 6, 2022)

Batcat said:


> I bet if there was a survey today the majority of those survey would say Joe Biden is responsible for the increasing price of gasoline.
> 
> Here is one from a couple of months ago, a Scott Rasmussen national survey. The results would be even worse today.
> 
> ...


A Newsmax Rasmussen report, nothing else has to be said. If he was the cause of gas higher prices, how did he do that, nitwit! What a hoot. Like I said, he had nothing to do with it.


----------



## jbander (Jun 6, 2022)

protectionist said:


> NRA only defends rights founders gave us in the 2nd amendment.  Ho hum. Yawn****


What a idiot, they sell guns nothing else, are you that stupid?


----------



## jbander (Jun 6, 2022)

protectionist said:


> All that is exactly what YOU are doing here.  Only thing you've accomplished is getting people to never read your posts again.


If you respond to another one of my posts I will dump your ass, so that we can make sure your claim is backed up, you dumb fuck/


----------



## jbander (Jun 6, 2022)

Batcat said:


> How many of those people were killed by gang members on the streets of large urban cities? Plus how many of those gang members had been arrested before for illegally carrying a firearm and got off scot-free or with a slap on the wrist? 228 people have died in Chicago so far this year.
> 
> Realistically do you think all the killers are Trump supporters? A drug gang member in Chicago is a MAGA supporter? You obviously have Trump derangement syndrome.
> 
> ...


You heroes shot


Batcat said:


> You just stated your opinion. You obviously have an inflated view of your intelligence.
> 
> Biden takes office after saying he wants to destroy the oil industry and the price of gasoline skyrockets. You lack the ability to see what is happening.
> 
> But at least you are a good Democrat sheeple.


he said he would destroy our  oil industry, we will stop there till you show us that quote, STUPID spelled with a Capital S. If they open their mouths it is a lie or a distortion.


----------



## jbander (Jun 6, 2022)

Anyone here show us how Biden is responsible for the high price of Gasoline.


----------



## jbander (Jun 6, 2022)

Dealing with idiots today!


----------



## Hollie (Jun 6, 2022)

jbander said:


> What a idiot, they sell guns nothing else, are you that stupid?


The NRA does not sell guns.


----------



## protectionist (Jun 6, 2022)

jbander said:


> Because it is bullshit , trying to blame it on Biden , is beyond stupid. Everything you write is like this , you are a candidate to just put on ignore for wasting bandwidth.


Anybody who writes > _"trying to blame it on Biden"_ is lost in a fog of ignorance.


----------



## protectionist (Jun 6, 2022)

jbander said:


> Bullshit , Ya the military selects guns that are nothing but good clean hunting guns , They are great if you want hamburger. You are one dumb fuck.


  News flash -the military does not use AR-15.  This is 2022, not 1950.   Today, the AR15 is a civilianized M16. The primary difference is lack of the full auto or 3-rd burst setting, and some changes to prevent M16 parts directly replacing the AR-15 parts to add in the select fire function.  Do some research before you make a fool out of yourself throwing the word "bullshit" around.   

And stop looking in the mirror and calling yourself names.  Finding out what you're talking about is better.


----------



## protectionist (Jun 6, 2022)

jbander said:


> If you respond to another one of my posts I will dump your ass, so that we can make sure your claim is backed up, you dumb fuck/


You won't do anything but fall on your face, like you've BEEN DOING up to now.  That, and wasting a lot of people s' time.


----------



## protectionist (Jun 6, 2022)

jbander said:


> You heroes shot
> 
> he said he would destroy our  oil industry, we will stop there till you show us that quote,


You didn't see it in the 2020 debates ? You must be the only one on the planet.


----------



## protectionist (Jun 6, 2022)

jbander said:


> Anyone here show us how Biden is responsible for the high price of Gasoline.


You don't know ANYTHING.

Must be a CNN/MSNBC watcher.


----------



## jbander (Jun 6, 2022)

Hollie said:


> The NRA does not sell guns.


That's all they do ,they don't give a damn about the second, they only care about how many guns they get sold.


----------



## jbander (Jun 6, 2022)

protectionist said:


> News flash -the military does not use AR-15.  This is 2022, not 1950.   Today, the AR15 is a civilianized M16. The primary difference is lack of the full auto or 3-rd burst setting, and some changes to prevent M16 parts directly replacing the AR-15 parts to add in the select fire function.  Do some research before you make a fool out of yourself throwing the word "bullshit" around.
> 
> And stop looking in the mirror and calling yourself names.  Finding out what you're talking about is better.


It was selected by the military as the base form for the M16 asshole. Your ignorant comment "  Today, the AR15 is a civilianized M16" is backwards to try to lie about the facts  . the M16 was derived from the AR not the other way around liar. The m16 is a military ar the M4 is derived from the m16 . but that's just saying the M4 is also derived from the ar.    
     The 223 was the key with a 1 and 14 inch twist, it was a monster made to blow people apart with it instability. That's why they picked this weapon. That and velocity sometime twice as fast as contemporary hunting guns as high as 3800fps


----------



## jbander (Jun 6, 2022)

protectionist said:


> You didn't see it in the 2020 debates ? You must be the only one on the planet.


That's a lie, He never said he would destroy the oil industry. He said it will be replaced over time, and he said he was for that completely. So who isn't. The whole world is trying to get rid of fossil fuels. Now tell me what he did to be responsible for the price of gasoline in the world, You are an idiot.


----------



## jbander (Jun 6, 2022)

protectionist said:


> You don't know ANYTHING.
> 
> Must be a CNN/MSNBC watcher.


You said you were going to ignore me , so why are you responding. You will need a great answer for this if you want to stay here.


----------



## jbander (Jun 6, 2022)

I think, our hero protectionist will disappear here.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 6, 2022)

jbander said:


> You heroes shot
> 
> he said he would destroy our  oil industry, we will stop there till you show us that quote, STUPID spelled with a Capital S. If they open their mouths it is a lie or a distortion.


Nope. Biden did say he would destroy the oil industry. THe buggy industry was destroyed when we transitioned from horse and buggy to car. Joe hopes to transition from fossil fuels to green energy. That is called a pipe dream. 






						Did Joe Biden Really Say He’d ‘Close Down the Oil Industry’? | Jon Miltimore
					

After a lively exchange over fracking, the president asked Biden a simple question: “Would you close down the oil industry?” Here's what Biden said.



					fee.org
				




_The exchange was lively, but what was even more interesting is what happened next. Perhaps sensing an advantage, Trump challenged Biden with a simple question.

*“Would you close down the oil industry?” the president asked.

Biden, normally a disciplined speaker, took the bait.

“I would transition from the oil industry, yes,” Biden said.

This response even seemed to perplex the debate moderator, who asked Biden, “Why would you do that?”

“The oil industry pollutes significantly,” he continued. “It has to be replaced by renewable energy over time.”*

Biden’s candor was a bit remarkable. Politicians are renowned for hedging and offering vague responses to straightforward questions. As the Associated Press reports, even the president himself seemed “surprised and pleased by Biden’s comment.”

The Biden Campaign tried to backtrack after the debate, telling reporters he was only talking about oil subsidies. But even in his clarifying comments, Biden indicated he still plans to get “rid of fossil fuels.” _…emphasis added. 









						ICYMI: Joe Biden Promised to Destroy the Oil Industry Last Night
					

In an effort to gain support on the far-left flank of the Democratic Party Sunday night, former Vice President Joe Biden vowed to stop oil drilling in the United States




					townhall.com
				




_In an effort to gain support on the far-left flank of the Democratic Party Sunday night, former Vice President Joe Biden vowed to stop oil drilling in the United States and said he would implement a ban on new fracking.


"No more drilling on federal lands. No more drilling, including offshore. No ability for the oil industry to continue to drill, period. Ends," Biden said. "No new fracking."_









						The Biden Administration's Attack On Oil And Gas Is Destroying Lives
					

On his first day in office, Biden waged a war on the oil and gas industry, effectively destroying thousands of working-class Americans' livelihoods.




					thefederalist.com
				




_On his first day in office, President Joe Biden, the self-professed champion of unity in the United States, waged a war on the oil and gas industry, effectively destroying thousands of working-class Americans’ livelihoods.

*Biden has long sought to destroy fossil fuels. On the campaign trail, the former vice president repeatedly stated his intentions to “transition” to greener solutions and move forward with a progressive approach to energy, completely cutting petroleum hubs out of the picture. At the top of Biden’s list was banning fracking, a promise he made at rallies all around the nation but later denied along with his Vice President Kamala Harris multiple times.*

Despite his ever-shifting stance on abolishing oil and gas, Biden quickly moved forward with anti-fossil fuel policies just a few days into his presidential term, postponing new federal leasing of oil and gas resources for at least a year as well as halting the Keystone XL Pipeline project. According to the American Petroleum Institue, policies like these would “shift to foreign sources, cost nearly one million American jobs, increase CO2 emissions and reduce revenue that funds education and key conservation programs.”

Some of Biden’s anti-petroleum executive orders, such as ending the Keystone Pipeline, do nothing to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and merely offer a leg-up to political rivals such as Russia, but Biden signed his name anyway, knowingly eliminating thousands of oilfield jobs staffed by American workers who were already struggling to recover from the government-mandated COVID-19 lockdowns and a pandemic oil bust_…emphasis added


----------



## Batcat (Jun 6, 2022)

jbander said:


> A Newsmax Rasmussen report, nothing else has to be said. If he was the cause of gas higher prices, how did he do that, nitwit! What a hoot. Like I said, he had nothing to do with it.


Trying the shoot the messenger trick. I love the smell of desperation in the late evening. 

Here’s how Biden caused gasoline prices to rise. 









						Biden blames Putin for high gas prices — but this timeline proves it’s the prez’s own fault
					

Gas prices started rising long before Russia invaded Ukraine.




					nypost.com
				












						25 Biden policies raising gas prices and other energy costs - Americans for Prosperity
					

These twenty-five Biden administration policies are affecting gas prices, home heating costs, and other energy-related burdens families face. Read more.



					americansforprosperity.org
				












						Here Are 81 Biden Actions That Drove Gas Prices to Historic Highs
					






					townhall.com


----------



## Batcat (Jun 6, 2022)

jbander said:


> 19 states , that's whole states that are more dangerous than New York, all of them are  hate party states. You are an idiot. And obviously totally lame.


New York City may be returning tot the bad old days. If so thank Democrats.









						Is New York City’s Spike in Violence a Return to the ‘Bad Old Days’? - The Crime Report
					

Jeffrey Butts, director of the Research and Evaluation Center at John Jay College, traces the increase in violent crime in New York and other large cities to social disruptions caused by the pandemic. He explains why in an interview launching “At the Crossroads,” a new series sponsored by the...




					thecrimereport.org
				




***snip***

_The New York City Police Department (NYPD) has reported that murders in the city rose to 462 in 2020—a 45 percent increase from 2019. The city recorded 1,531 shootings in 2020—a 97 percent increase from 2019.

Is this the beginning of a trend that will lead us back to the “bad old days”? Or is it just a COVID-related statistical blip?_









						New York City Used To Be A Terrifying Place [PHOTOS]
					

In the past two decades, New York City's crime rate dropped drastically, making it one of the safest big cities in the country.




					www.businessinsider.com


----------



## protectionist (Jun 7, 2022)

jbander said:


> It was selected by the military as the base form for the M16 asshole. Your ignorant comment "  Today, the AR15 is a civilianized M16" is backwards to try to lie about the facts  . the M16 was derived from the AR not the other way around liar. The m16 is a military ar the M4 is derived from the m16 . but that's just saying the M4 is also derived from the ar.
> The 223 was the key with a 1 and 14 inch twist, it was a monster made to blow people apart with it instability. That's why they picked this weapon. That and velocity sometime twice as fast as contemporary hunting guns as high as 3800fps


I KNOW THAT, asshole, and it is what I just TOLD YOU. Can you read ?  Oh, so it looks like you took my advice, and are now doing a little reading, to try to show that you actually know something.

In the military (1964-1969) I USED the M16, as well as the M1, the M14, and the M16A1, which replaced the M14 rifle, to become the US military's standard.   If you ever want to see how these can be taken apart into many pieces, blindfolded, cleaned, and put back together again, I could give you a lesson.

 The M16A1's modifications included a bolt-assist, chrome-plated bore, and a 30-round magazine.


----------



## protectionist (Jun 7, 2022)

jbander said:


> That's all they do ,they don't give a damn about the second, they only care about how many guns they get sold.


This idiot spends his time posting MISINFORMATION. NO, the NRA does NOT sell guns.
They are a civil rights organization, representing the 2nd amendment.

This is what the NRA DOES do >>>

Here is what it does do.

It sells advertisements to companies who sell guns wholesale. It also partners with gun dealers, to give discounts on gun related purchases to NRA members.
It also solicits gun buyers to donate their spare change at the register to the NRA. That program is similar to when you buy something at CVS, you can donate your spare change up to the next dollar to some cause. Except in this case, the cause is protecting the second amendment.


----------



## protectionist (Jun 7, 2022)

jbander said:


> That's a lie, He never said he would destroy the oil industry. He said it will be replaced over time, and he said he was for that completely. So who isn't. The whole world is trying to get rid of fossil fuels. Now tell me what he did to be responsible for the price of gasoline in the world, You are an idiot.


And replacing is not destroying ?  Why don't we drop a few more synonyms in here >>>
Eliminating.........transitioningfrom........discarding.........demolish......annihilate........eradicate....dissolve

Who isn't ?  Practically the whole USA isn't, who are all up in arms over the grossly inflated gas prices that goofball Biden has given us, by shutting down oil/gas production. Are you the only one in America who doesn't know this ? Any more ignorance and stupidity you want to display ?


----------



## protectionist (Jun 7, 2022)

jbander said:


> A Newsmax Rasmussen report, nothing else has to be said. If he was the cause of gas higher prices, how did he do that, nitwit! What a hoot. Like I said, he had nothing to do with it.


Yes, nothing else needs to be said.  With a Newsmax Rasmussen report, we know we are getting the truth, to counter the brainless drivel fed to boneheads like you on a daily basis, by CNN, MSNBC, PBS, ad nauseum. et al liberal OMISSION media, designed to keep fools like you ignorant.


----------



## protectionist (Jun 7, 2022)

jbander said:


> What a idiot, they sell guns nothing else, are you that stupid?


Wow.  Are you ever lost.  Would somebody on the left please step in here, and help out this poor soul ?  

Is there a rule that posters here have to be at least 10 years old to post here ?


----------



## protectionist (Jun 7, 2022)

jbander said:


> You said you were going to ignore me , so why are you responding. You will need a great answer for this if you want to stay here.


Where did I say I was going to *ignore you *?  Post # please.


----------



## Cellblock2429 (Jun 7, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...


/----/ Let's see what Joe's spawn thinks of illegal guns.
trib.al/oNSAotA


----------



## Cellblock2429 (Jun 7, 2022)

jbander said:


> What a idiot, they sell guns nothing else, are you that stupid?


/-----/ Point out the NRA guns for sale: 








						: Home
					

The National Rifle Association is America’s longest-standing civil rights organization. Together with our more than five million members, we’re proud defenders of history’s patriots and diligent protectors of the Second Amendment.




					home.nra.org


----------



## badbob85037 (Jun 7, 2022)

protectionist said:


> Here's what Joe Biden has repeatedly said he want to do about guns in America.
> 
> 1.  Ban what he calls "assault weapons"
> 2.  Ban high-capacity magazines.
> ...


I think I'm speaking for all Arizonans when I say Fuck you Little Bitch Joe.


----------



## jbander (Jun 7, 2022)

Cellblock2429 said:


> /-----/ Point out the NRA guns for sale:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Everyone on their board is selected by a specific group of people , those people are gun company people and their only concern is the sales of guns. Is that simple enough for you. I know how simple I have to keep this considering who I am dealing with.


Cellblock2429 said:


> /-----/ Point out the NRA guns for sale:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Go right ahead hero tell us what Biden has done that is the cause of high prices of gasoline in the whole world, what a fucking idiot.


----------



## jbander (Jun 7, 2022)

Like talking to bricks. IF anyone sees someone from the right telling the truth, tell me, I would like to see it.


----------



## jbander (Jun 7, 2022)

Cellblock2429 said:


> /-----/ Point out the NRA guns for sale:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


By the way, there are no patriots in the group that tried or supported bringing down our democracy and country to force in a piece of shit for a dictator on jan6th and every one of them should have their guns taken away by any means possible. You don't let the enemy of your country own guns. And we are dead stupid if we let them keep them. They will kill if Trump asks them to.


----------



## laferia52 (Jun 8, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Joe beat Trump by 7 million and a landslide electorate victory. What does that make Trump if Biden outsmarted him.


bedpan joe cannot out smart a celery stick.


----------



## laferia52 (Jun 8, 2022)

jbander said:


> Not me but when you buy guns to show PEOPLE THE SIZE OF YOUR rocks NOW that's weird. And that is the only REASON THAT YOUR AR15 AND AR15 TYPE GUNS ARE BIG WITH YOUR GROUP. You micro penis people buy big guns for obvious reasons. Everyone knows that. That's just common knowledge.


that is your personal opinion. but as they say in the US Army, Opinions are like a--holes everybody has one


----------



## jbander (Jun 8, 2022)

laferia52 said:


> bedpan joe cannot out smart a celery stick.


Then what  does that say about your god and leader scum bag then?


----------



## jbander (Jun 8, 2022)

laferia52 said:


> that is your personal opinion. but as they say in the US Army, Opinions are like a--holes everybody has one


Like someone would care what they say in the army. They are picked for being good cannon fodder, not for their brains.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 8, 2022)

laferia52 said:


> bedpan joe cannot out smart a celery stick.


I’ll take Biden over a Trump with the mentality of a mature  cucumber. You still drinking industrial cleaner ? Nuked  any storms lately ? You’re one  of those fools who thinks climate change is a Chinese hoax ? Wtf do you know ?


----------



## laferia52 (Jun 8, 2022)

jbander said:


> Like someone would care what they say in the army. They are picked for being good cannon fodder, not for their brains.


these are the people who are willing to die to defend our country. they will even defend sorry asses like you .


----------



## woodwork201 (Jun 8, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> So now, parents should be posted in classrooms armed with assault rifles ?


They can be posted at the entrances and exits armed with assault rifles.  But your method is to use the kids to protect the cops.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 8, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> They can be posted at the entrances and exits armed with assault rifles.  But your method is to use the kids to protect the cops.


The cops were idiots. But what do you expect from Texas cops ?


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 8, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> They can be posted at the entrances and exits armed with assault rifles.  But your method is to use the kids to protect the cops.


Let’s see. ”The United States has the highest gun ownership rate in the world and the highest per capita rate of firearm-related murders of all developed countries. There are an estimated 393.3 million civilian-held firearms in the United States — or about 121 for every 100 American citizens, the highest gun ownership rate of anywhere in the world.”



Guess what ? Arming  more people ain’t working.
But I’m sure you don’t believe in science either. 
“


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 8, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Guess what ? Arming more people ain’t working.


Only because we don't arm nearly enough people.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 8, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Only because we don't arm nearly enough people.


Oh, leading the world isn’t enough ?


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 8, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Oh, leading the world isn’t enough ?


Correct.  It isn't enough.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jun 8, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


>


Pretty picture - well, not really.  But a picture is not data.  

And, during the assault weapons ban, there was an absolutely zero percent reduction in black semi-automatic rifles with the combination of removable magazines, screw-on flash suppressor, adjustable stock, and pistol grip.  Not a single one was taken off the street during the assault weapons ban so the ban actually had zero effect, up or down, on crime.  

In addition, during the assault weapons ban, AR-15 rifles never stopped selling.  There were  likely a million new AR style rifles sold during the ban.  In fact, all of my ARs would have been completely legal to sell during the ban if I just removed the flash suppressor and soldered on a thread cover - or replaced the barrel with one that didn't  have threads - and replaced the adjustable stock with a fixed stock.  Half of my ARs are hunting and target rifles and already don't have threaded barrels and a couple also have fixed stocks so some, purchased before and after the ban, would have been perfectly legal to sell or buy during the not-a-ban.

You really need to read up on the idea that correlation does not mean causation.  Crime rates were going down before the ban and have continued to drop after the ban ended in 2004.  In fact, 2005 and 2006 had some of the largest drops in crime in the past 50 years - after the ban had ended.  By your standards, that would prove that ending the ban reduced crime.









						Did The 1994 Assault Weapons Ban Work? No. Here Are The Data. - The Gun Study
					

We study all the data produced by the 1994 assault weapons ban. View the facts, see the graphs and charts, and learn why the famous gun ban was ineffective.




					thegunstudy.com


----------



## woodwork201 (Jun 8, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> The cops were idiots. But what do you expect from Texas cops ?


The police chief, the person who ordered the police to wait in the hallway to protect the shooter, is a Biden voter.  I expect more from Texas cops but this is exactly what I expect from Biden voters.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jun 8, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Why don't you like police?  Do Blue Lives not matter to you?  Do you want to "defund the police"?


Just the Uvalde police.  I bet that 99% of the Uvalde citizens would defund their police today and replace them with Border Patrol


----------



## woodwork201 (Jun 8, 2022)

jbander said:


> Can't you read, you idiot, the bill was ignored because all of Cruz's bills are ignored because he is nothing but a piece of shit and everyone knows it . One more time he has written
> What an idiot, they should have been shot when they attacked our capital, beating and injuring 140 cops to bring down our democracy to force in a piece of shit for a dictator. Everyone who forced their way into the capital should have been shot. Bringing down our country is not a belief, no matter what the thinking is. You and everyone who supports that are scum and traitors to this country.



Not even you believe the shit you post.  There was no chance that a bunch of unarmed protesters were going to take down our country.  Did you think that they were going to take over and now we'd have a president with bull horns?  You're such an idiot.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jun 8, 2022)

jbander said:


> Can't you read, you idiot, the bill was ignored because all of Cruz's bills are ignored because he is nothing but a piece of shit and everyone knows it .


So, just to be clear, you're standing by your statement that you hate Cruz more than you want to protect children and that if it takes a few dead kids to make sure Cruz doesn't get a legislative win, it's well worth it.  Got it.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 8, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Just the Uvalde police.  I bet that 99% of the Uvalde citizens would defund their police today and replace them with Border Patrol


I'm surprised that the mayor and police chief haven't already been forced to resign.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jun 8, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> You know what happened. Maybe you were asleep. The door was left propped open. You must be naive. Literally anyone knocking at a door will be let in by unwary students. You live in a dream  world. I never heard such hog wash. The only sure fire way is to have every door monitored. Obviously gas station minimarts have no where near the traffic on one side as a school full of unaware fourth graders and six year olds. Your comments sound like you have never been in school.
> 
> The hilarious thing is, conservatives have all these bright ideas and NEVER vote to pay for it.....justmore guns. Idiocy


The door was not propped open.  The police lied but the Texas DPS corrected the record.  The problem is that the door didn't automatically lock - something easily fixed for about $100 or so.  

You're probably right, initially, about children opening the door when someone knocks.  That's easily fixed by explaining to children that they don't open the door, even for people they know or even teachers.  They'll understand and comply.  Tell the teachers and staff that knocking on the door to get someone to open it for you is a firing offense.

I do live in a dream world: I dream of seeing children protected in ways that will work and are meaningful rather than simply banning one tool which would simply be replaced by the next tool, more deaths, and the next ban, followed by the next tool and more deaths and the next ban.  

Just how many children are you willing to watch die in order to get your desired gun ban?


----------



## jbander (Jun 8, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> So, just to be clear, you're standing by your statement that you hate Cruz more than you want to protect children and that if it takes a few dead kids to make sure Cruz doesn't get a legislative win, it's well worth it.  Got it.


Kissoff what a idiot, no one said that scum ball. What I said is everyone totally rejects everything Cruz does because like you he is scum. He has written 380 bills and 7 of them were turned into law, all the rest were put on ignore. By the way, take a look at the seven, they are totally jokes all 7 of them. A waste of paper, he literally has got nothing passed. You live off of lies and distortions , you MAGA Magots are a total joke .


----------



## woodwork201 (Jun 8, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I'm surprised that the mayor and police chief haven't already been forced to resign.


I heard that there was a ceremony the day of or day after and the police chief was sworn in to be a member of the city council.  Nuts.









						Police chief for Uvalde schools sworn into city council behind closed doors Tuesday night | Houston Public Media
					

The director of the Texas Department of Public Safety said last week that chief Pete Arredondo’s directive to not engage the shooter sooner was the “wrong decision.”




					www.houstonpublicmedia.org


----------



## woodwork201 (Jun 8, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Democrats believe gun owners are all uneducated rednecks who will not be able to figure out their incremental approach to disarming America.
> 
> You can see just how smart Democrats really are with Joe Biden running the nation. It took less than two years to totally fuck everything up.


They claim that gun owners are so stupid they're more likely to kill themselves or their children than to save a life but then they claimed a bunch of unarmed idiots in costumes came within a hair's breadth of overthrowing the entire government on January 6.


----------



## jbander (Jun 8, 2022)

laferia52 said:


> these are the people who are willing to die to defend our country. they will even defend sorry asses like you .


No they are willing to get killed for some corporations, we have been in 230 wars only 4 have any merits at all, the rest we murdered and killed  people who were in no way a threat of any kind to this country. They got in the way of America making money, nothing else. . So no, very few are patriotic. Most were in it for Money for school or ignorance,   Most did nothing honorable, and they definitely weren't protecting America from anything. If you volunteer, you are cannon fodder nothing else, and I can just about guaranty that you will never be used in an honorable role. In example, Bush murdered hundreds of thousands and murdered 5000 American heroes.  That is the reason they come back with such guilt that they have their lives destroyed because they realized how they have been used and their killing was more murder than anything else.


----------



## jbander (Jun 8, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> They claim that gun owners are so stupid they're more likely to kill themselves or their children than to save a life but then they claimed a bunch of unarmed idiots in costumes came within a hair's breadth of overthrowing the entire government on January 6.


Yup there is no group more stupid, used by the gun lobby and talked into a attempted overthrow of our democracy and country to force in a piece of shit for a dictator. Both these actions proves their stupidity . a simple-minded  brain-dead idea that Scum bag won the election.  What a group of idiots , these MAGGA maggots are.


----------



## jbander (Jun 8, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> The door was not propped open.  The police lied but the Texas DPS corrected the record.  The problem is that the door didn't automatically lock - something easily fixed for about $100 or so.
> 
> You're probably right, initially, about children opening the door when someone knocks.  That's easily fixed by explaining to children that they don't open the door, even for people they know or even teachers.  They'll understand and comply.  Tell the teachers and staff that knocking on the door to get someone to open it for you is a firing offense.
> 
> ...


Your a idiot.


----------



## jbander (Jun 8, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Not even you believe the shit you post.  There was no chance that a bunch of unarmed protesters were going to take down our country.  Did you think that they were going to take over and now we'd have a president with bull horns?  You're such an idiot.


Next time they lose they will do the same thing , I guaranty it, this time Trump will ask you to kill for him , will you?


----------



## jbander (Jun 8, 2022)

You have to ask these killers directly, when they attack again I want them all shot at the front door of the capital this time.


----------



## jbander (Jun 8, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Only because we don't arm nearly enough people.


How stupid is that when we have more guns by far than any other country in the world. These people are totally stupid , They would not even be able to exist if they were forced to tell the truth, without lies and distortion the hate party wouldn't exist ever.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 9, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> They claim that gun owners are so stupid they're more likely to kill themselves or their children than to save a life but then they claimed a bunch of unarmed idiots in costumes came within a hair's breadth of overthrowing the entire government on January 6.


Trump actually wanted troops to protect the Capitol Building. That probably will not come out in the upcoming song and dance show by the Jan 6th Committee comprised of Trump hating Democrats and a couple of RINO Republicans Appointed by Nancy Pelosi. 









						President Trump Requested 10,000 National Guard Before Capitol Attack, But Pelosi Blocked More Troops
					

President Donald Trump has once again drawn the attention of a number of “fact-checkers” for a claim about the Capitol riots. This […] More




					trendingpolitics.com
				












						Ex-Capitol Police Chief Says Requests For National Guard Denied 6 Times In Riots
					

Steven Sund contradicts reports that help was not requested, saying security officials at the House and Senate rebuffed calls for assistance ahead of and during the attack on the Capitol.




					www.npr.org
				












						Capitol Police REJECTED offers of National Guard help days before riot
					

Three days before supporters of President Donald Trump rioted at the Capitol, the Pentagon asked the U.S Capitol Police if it needed National Guard manpower, but the offer was declined.




					www.dailymail.co.uk
				












						What if there were GOP-appointed members of Jan. 6 committee?
					

WHAT IF THERE WERE GOP-APPOINTED MEMBERS OF JAN. 6 COMMITTEE? The premiere of the House Democrat's big Jan. 6 show is just days away. But now some Democrats appear to be concerned about publicly discussing the show's frankly political nature.




					www.washingtonexaminer.com
				




***snip***

_So what would it be like, what would Thursday night's premiere be like, if there were Republican-appointed Republicans on the committee? The only certain answer is that, unlike now, there would be a difference in perspectives among the members. There would be members to challenge the assertions of other members, who could then respond. There would be differences of emphasis. There would be, in short, the kind of interactions that congressional committees are supposed to have._


----------



## Batcat (Jun 9, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> He’s right. It has two things going for it. It’s a very efficient pistol man killer, and the ammo is cheap.


Some 9mm pistols are excellent concealed carry weapons. They are very small and light.


----------



## laferia52 (Jun 9, 2022)

jbander said:


> No they are willing to get killed for some corporations, we have been in 230 wars only 4 have any merits at all, the rest we murdered and killed  people who were in no way a threat of any kind to this country. They got in the way of America making money, nothing else. . So no, very few are patriotic. Most were in it for Money for school or ignorance,   Most did nothing honorable, and they definitely weren't protecting America from anything. If you volunteer, you are cannon fodder nothing else, and I can just about guaranty that you will never be used in an honorable role. In example, Bush murdered hundreds of thousands and murdered 5000 American heroes.  That is the reason they come back with such guilt that they have their lives destroyed because they realized how they have been used and their killing was more murder than anything else.


you belong in the loony bin. you stated american service men and women are not very bright , that they are stupid. now you call them american heroes. you can't have it both ways. your are a sorry ass SOB


----------



## jbander (Jun 9, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Trump actually wanted troops to protect the Capitol Building. That probably will not come out in the upcoming song and dance show by the Jan 6th Committee comprised of Trump hating Democrats and a couple of RINO Republicans Appointed by Nancy Pelosi.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


100% bull crap. don't waste your time.


----------



## jbander (Jun 9, 2022)

laferia52 said:


> you belong in the loony bin. you stated american service men and women are not very bright , that they are stupid. now you call them american heroes. you can't have it both ways. your are a sorry ass SOB


Never said all of them were anything.but going into the service for patriotic reasons is ridiculous , with at most 4 wars out of over 200 wars we have been in that were patriotic wars the rest they were just cannon fodder for greed.


----------



## jbander (Jun 9, 2022)

The military should be charged with protecting our borders. And if they say corporate interest are American interest then they are wrong, 100% wrong. Not one American should ever die for the bottom line of some corporation or person. Like the Carlyle Haliburton lie of the liars war. Bush murdered 5000 American heroes.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jun 9, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> You choose to lie about firearms used in mass shootings out of ignorance or support of criminal intent.
> like the .223, the 9 mm is a military cartridge.
> 
> Its still valued today by the criminal minded as sub machine rounds and high cap pistol  and carbines deemed   essential for mass killing and maximum effectiveness.
> ...


So you admit that you really are coming after all guns and  not just AR-15s.  Thanks for clearing up any doubt.


----------



## jbander (Jun 9, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> So you admit that you really are coming after all guns and  not just AR-15s.  Thanks for clearing up any doubt.


You're just stupid, there are no words in the above comment that even suggest that, you lame prick.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jun 9, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> The good ? He mismanaged Covid, had a recession and lost tens of  thousands of jobs. Biden has the unimployment rate down to 3.6% from 6.3% when Trump left office. The growth in employment is the biggest in history of a one year period. Trump bragged when it was 6%. What a dufus . We have inflation driven by oil prices because of covid  mismanagement and every form transportation shut down and oil companies stopped pumping oil. Oh, it’s there. The oil companies have yet to increase production to pre Covid levels.



Before Biden took office, both he and Kamala Harris had both shots of the Fauci virus vaccine.  When Trump left office, over 13 million had been vaccinated.  There were three different vaccines available.

Sadly, while Trump was in office, the Fauci virus had murdered 200,000 Americans and Biden recognized the sadness of that in stating that any president who oversaw the death of 200,000 Americans from the virus should not be president.  In the 18 months since Biden took office, having started with 3 fully ready vaccines, 800,000 more Americans have died.  Why is Biden still in office?  Talk about mismanaging Covid.

Biden paid millions to not work, long after the risk of the Fauci virus was over.  Participation in the workforce has never bee lower in the past 50 years.  The low unemployment numbers do not reflect that so it's fake news. 

Inflation is from Biden's mismanagement of shutdowns after Trump was gone.   And oil production today is higher than when Biden took office; it's not that oil companies quit pumping.  Oil production was absolutely higher during the Trump years than at any time in our history.  That's on Trump.  It was lower during Obama, higher during Trump, lower during Biden.  In November 2020, daily oil production in the US was 11.1 million barrels per day.  It's currently about 11.6 million barrels per day.  If you want Trump level oil production there's a great way to get it back to that effective January 20, 2025: vote for Trump.

But I've proven that reduced supply by the oil companies is absolutely not the cause of increased oil prices.  There are actually three major components to oil pricing: supply, demand, and the third, almost never mentioned, is risk - which isn't actual supply and demand but it is what the market thinks might be the future supply versus demand equation.  Most, not all, oil trading is done in futures and not on today's production.  Biden promised to end America's dependency on fossil fuels and then, on day 1, shut down the Keystone pipeline and then, just a few months later, approved removing sanctions on the the Russian Nord Stream 2 pipeline.  When the President demonstrates that he intends to harm the American oil industry, the stability of access to oil in American markets becomes volatile.  That risk that there may be far less oil in the future leads to bidding wars on future oil so big customers can be sure to get what they need.  Biden is 100% the cause of gasoline prices doubling in the past 18 months.

So you really don't know a thing about any of the topics in your post; you're just quoting from your talking points.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 10, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Before Biden took office, both he and Kamala Harris had both shots of the Fauci virus vaccine.  When Trump left office, over 13 million had been vaccinated.  There were three different vaccines available.
> 
> Sadly, while Trump was in office, the Fauci virus had murdered 200,000 Americans and Biden recognized the sadness of that in stating that any president who oversaw the death of 200,000 Americans from the virus should not be president.  In the 18 months since Biden took office, having started with 3 fully ready vaccines, 800,000 more Americans have died.  Why is Biden still in office?  Talk about mismanaging Covid.
> 
> ...


Hey imbecile. It was foreign nation companies that developed the vaccines. They were developed in spite of Trump. Trump who kept preaching there is no need for vaccines. Trump dissed vaccines, and now wants to take credit for what ? Infecting NYC and California ? You guys are just as stupid about covid as you are about climate change…..


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 10, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Before Biden took office, both he and Kamala Harris had both shots of the Fauci virus vaccine.  When Trump left office, over 13 million had been vaccinated.  There were three different vaccines available.
> 
> Sadly, while Trump was in office, the Fauci virus had murdered 200,000 Americans and Biden recognized the sadness of that in stating that any president who oversaw the death of 200,000 Americans from the virus should not be president.  In the 18 months since Biden took office, having started with 3 fully ready vaccines, 800,000 more Americans have died.  Why is Biden still in office?  Talk about mismanaging Covid.
> 
> ...


All made up shit.


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 10, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Some 9mm pistols are excellent concealed carry weapons. They are very small and light.


Wow, is that a good reason to sell them to criminals ?


----------



## Dagosa (Jun 10, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> The door was not propped open.  The police lied but the Texas DPS corrected the record.  The problem is that the door didn't automatically lock - something easily fixed for about $100 or so.
> 
> You're probably right, initially, about children opening the door when someone knocks.  That's easily fixed by explaining to children that they don't open the door, even for people they know or even teachers.  They'll understand and comply.  Tell the teachers and staff that knocking on the door to get someone to open it for you is a firing offense.
> 
> ...


So the doors were the reason 19 people were slaughtered ? Gee, Sandy hook had, the shooter shot out the windows to let himself in. Why not blame the right for arming criminals with 2 AR15s ? That’s who is to blame. Gun a holics are slaughtering innocent people.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 10, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Hey imbecile. It was foreign nation companies that developed the vaccines.


That is incorrect.  Some American companies developed vaccines too.




Dagosa said:


> They were developed in spite of Trump.


That is incorrect.  Mr. Trump funded the rapid development of most of the vaccines.  They would have been developed much more slowly if not for him.




Dagosa said:


> Why not blame the right for arming criminals with 2 AR15s ?


Because the right did no such thing.




Dagosa said:


> That’s who is to blame.


No it isn't.




Dagosa said:


> Gun a holics are slaughtering innocent people.


No we aren't.




Dagosa said:


> Wow, is that a good reason to sell them to criminals ?


It depends on whether the criminal in question is nonviolent or not.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 10, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Wow, is that a good reason to sell them to criminals ?


Most of the super compact 9mm that are useful for concealed carry don’t hold enough rounds for a criminal. Most criminals can’t shoot worth a damn so they want to fill the air with lead and look cool whole doing it.


----------



## jbander (Jun 10, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Before Biden took office, both he and Kamala Harris had both shots of the Fauci virus vaccine.  When Trump left office, over 13 million had been vaccinated.  There were three different vaccines available.
> 
> Sadly, while Trump was in office, the Fauci virus had murdered 200,000 Americans and Biden recognized the sadness of that in stating that any president who oversaw the death of 200,000 Americans from the virus should not be president.  In the 18 months since Biden took office, having started with 3 fully ready vaccines, 800,000 more Americans have died.  Why is Biden still in office?  Talk about mismanaging Covid.
> 
> ...


This is so stupid. It's simple , Trump said stick a lightbulb up your ass and drink bleach and Biden said none stop get vaccinated. The right is as dumb as the comment above.


----------



## jbander (Jun 10, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> That is incorrect.  Some American companies developed vaccines too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OK Q anon.


----------



## jbander (Jun 10, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Most of the super compact 9mm that are useful for concealed carry don’t hold enough rounds for a criminal. Most criminals can’t shoot worth a damn so they want to fill the air with lead and look cool whole doing it.


Ya gun Bubba want AR's because it tells the world how big a cock they have.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 10, 2022)

jbander said:


> Ya gun Bubba want AR's because it tells the world how big a cock they have.


Actually I don’t own any “assault weapons.” I don’t hunt hogs and I am an old dinosaur that likes S&W revolvers. I legally carry a snub nosed .38 caliber S&W Model 642 that has a 1 7/8” barrel. 

That does not mean that I want you gun grabbers running around grabbing all my friends ARs.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 10, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Actually I don’t own any “assault weapons.” I don’t hunt hogs and I am an old dinosaur that likes S&W revolvers. I legally carry a snub nosed .38 caliber S&W Model 642 that has a 1 7/8” barrel.
> 
> That does not mean that I want you gun grabbers running around grabbing all my friends ARs.
> 
> View attachment 656314



More gun porn and a fine demonstration of gunonanism.  Impressive.  Looks pretty manly.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 10, 2022)

jbander said:


> This is so stupid. It's simple , Trump said stick a lightbulb up your ass and drink bleach and Biden said none stop get vaccinated. The right is as dumb as the comment above.


Trump was able to enable the ”warp speed” development of three vaccines to treat COVID-19. He never said to drink bleach. 









						Operation Warp Speed Was a Tremendous Success. Let's Build on It
					

Our national stockpile should be used to strengthen essential American industries—not to foster greater dependence on China.




					www.newsweek.com
				












						Fact-check: Did Trump tell people to drink bleach to kill the coronavirus?
					

This piece was originally published on PolitiFact.com on June 11, 2020 Joe Biden : On COVID-19, Donald Trump said...



					www.statesman.com
				




***snip***

_
*Our ruling*

Biden said Trump said drinking bleach could help fight the coronavirus. Trump did not specifically recommend ingesting disinfectants, but he did express interest in exploring whether disinfectants could be applied to the site of a coronavirus infection inside the body, such as the lungs. We rate Biden’s claim Mostly False._


----------



## Batcat (Jun 10, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> More gun porn and a fine demonstration of gunonanism.  Impressive.  Looks pretty manly.


The S&W Model 642 is a small, very light revolver that is designed for concealed carry. It’s reliable and will handle .38+P ammo. It is a double action only weapon and it has a snappy recoil. It’s is not a good beginner‘s gun, nor is it a target pistol. 

I wouldn’t say it is a particularly manly weapon. It’s a little underpowered for that. I would call an S&W.44 magnum a manly gun Or perhaps a Colt ,45 auto.







Putting on a belt or shoulder holster is often a pain when you are just going to the store  so your concealed weapon stays behind in the safe. I solved that problem when I bought thie S&W Model 642.  I just grab it and its holster on the way out the door and slip both into a jacket or pants pocket.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 10, 2022)

Batcat said:


> The S&W Model 642 is a small, very light revolver that is designed for concealed carry. It’s reliable and will handle .38+P ammo. It is a double action only weapon and it has a snappy recoil. It’s is not a good beginner‘s gun, nor is it a target pistol.
> 
> I wouldn’t say it is a particularly manly weapon. It’s a little underpowered for that. I would call an S&W.44 magnum a manly gun Or perhaps a Colt ,45 auto.
> 
> ...



Uh, uh, uh, huhuhuhuh....oh yes!  Yes!  MOAR GUNS!  Huh huh huh...uhhhhhhhhhhhh nnnnnnhhhhhhuuuuuhhhhhh...

I bet you put it in your pants pocket a LOT.  Just grab and go to town!


----------



## Batcat (Jun 10, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Uh, uh, uh, huhuhuhuh....oh yes!  Yes!  MOAR GUNS!  Huh huh huh...uhhhhhhhhhhhh nnnnnnhhhhhhuuuuuhhhhhh...
> 
> I bet you put it in your pants pocket a LOT.  Just grab and go to town!


You offered me the opportunity to post gun porn so I took you up on that. I hope you enjoyed it. I get the feeling you enjoy gun porn a bit too much but if I am right at least the result will not require an abortion.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 10, 2022)

Batcat said:


> You offered me the opportunity to post gun porn so I took you up on that. I hope you enjoyed it.



oh I did!  Believe me!



Batcat said:


> I get the feeling you enjoy gun porn a bit too much



I'm a true-blue American patriot.  How could I NOT????



Batcat said:


> but if I am right at least the result will not require an abortion.



You are correct.  

(But I still try to use protection...)


----------



## jbander (Jun 10, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Trump was able to enable the ”warp speed” development of three vaccines to treat COVID-19. He never said to drink bleach.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What a pile of shit. When asked, do you lick his butt? Stick a lightbulb up your ass and drink some bleach, Trumps total cure for Covid.


----------



## jbander (Jun 10, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> More gun porn and a fine demonstration of gunonanism.  Impressive.  Looks pretty manly.


They are gun Bubbas , they operate with lies and goofiness.


----------



## jbander (Jun 10, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> oh I did!  Believe me!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is no patriots in the hate party, they gave those position up when they attacked or supported the attack of jan 6th or support Trump, The dictator they tried to put in power and the pig that sent them to take over the capital and bring down our country and democracy. They are anti-American scum at this point.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jun 10, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Hey imbecile. It was foreign nation companies that developed the vaccines. They were developed in spite of Trump. Trump who kept preaching there is no need for vaccines. Trump dissed vaccines, and now wants to take credit for what ? Infecting NYC and California ? You guys are just as stupid about covid as you are about climate change…..


Again, you're lying and wrong.  And an imbecile.   Provide proof of Trump ever saying there was no need for vaccines or in any way disrespecting the idea of them.  You're a lying dickhead.

But I gave you a long post of facts proving everything you had claimed was bullshit and this one lie is the only response you have?  I proved that oil companies are not responsible for the rise in oil prices but, instead, that Biden is.  I proved that inflation is Biden's fault.  I proved your lie that Trump mishandled the Fauci virus by showing that 800,000 were killed on Biden's watch and that, by his own standards, Biden needs to step down.  I proved that Biden started  his presidency with three approved vaccines and his policies led to the death of 4 times the numbers under Trump and Trump didn't have the vaccine available until very late in 2020.  I proved lie after lie from you and the only one you could hope to respond to is with another lie about Trump and the vaccines.

Who cares where the vaccines were created?  It was the Trump administration that got them in the arms of millions of Americans.  If they'd been created in Washington DC it wouldn't have mattered; it's not like the President is in the lab with a lab coat.  Trump did what great political leaders do: he cleared the obstacles and let things move fast through Operation Warp Speed.  You can read the truth about it on Yahoo.com, a place not known for any pro-Trump bias:









						The Truth about Trump’s Operation Warp Speed
					

Millions of people across the United States have already received doses of vaccines against coronavirus — vaccines developed as part of Operation Warp Speed (OWS), the project conceived, initiated, resourced, and largely executed under Trump administration leadership. Daily, millions more join...




					news.yahoo.com


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## woodwork201 (Jun 10, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> All made up shit.


That's the best you've got?  Actually, let me make that a statement instead of a question because, yes, that is the best you've got because you can't back it up.  Everything I stated was provable fact.


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## Batcat (Jun 11, 2022)

jbander said:


> What a pile of shit. When asked, do you lick his butt? Stick a lightbulb up your ass and drink some bleach, Trumps total cure for Covid.


No, but then I am not a victim of Trump Derangement Syndrome like you. In the flowing article I found what I consider some reasonable advise for people like you. 









						Operation Warp Speed, was it just a hoax?, page 1
					

Operation Warp Speed, was it just a hoax?, page 1




					www.abovetopsecret.com
				




***snip***

_So now the question arises, Did the Trump administration aid the process in any way?  

I do believe operation Warp Speed was rolled out during the Trump administration. In the history of Vaccines, I don't remember going from discover of virus to vaccine distribution in less than a year, but perhaps I am just misinformed. If this is common place, I'm sure someone will post a link to educate. 

So I'm left with wonder. *I wonder if the opposition to this has to do with just the brain washing the MSM has done to the general public against Trump. I mean, if you stop and ask, I'd wager most in the US have a similar opinion of Trump's personality. But to lie to yourself, in order to feed that TDS (or just plain hate if you are afraid of acknowledging that term) seems like something even professional psychiatrists would warn against. I think it is possible that Trump had some good ideas on this and his input made the effort possible. 

I would also add, that in order for this to be true, you don't have to sell your soul, become a conservative, slice your wrists in the bathtub, or even like the idea of Trump. All you have to do is look at the facts. Now if you can provide facts that state otherwise, we can have what we like to call "a debate". But in reality, there will be nothing but Orange Man bad, mu feelz, and REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.*_…emphasis added


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## woodwork201 (Jun 11, 2022)

Batcat said:


> No, but then I am not a victim of Trump Derangement Syndrome like you. In the flowing article I found what I consider some reasonable advise for people like you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's the first time any vaccine has ever been rolled out anywhere close to this fast.  They're usually 4 to 6 years at best.

But you're fighting a  lost cause.  I quit responding to this guy no matter what he says about anything - to me, about me, or about anything else; he's not capable of intelligent or reasoned responses and just wastes time and space on the site.


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## Batcat (Jun 11, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> It's the first time any vaccine has ever been rolled out anywhere close to this fast.  They're usually 4 to 6 years at best.
> 
> But you're fighting a  lost cause.  I quit responding to this guy no matter what he says about anything - to me, about me, or about anything else; he's not capable of intelligent or reasoned responses and just wastes time and space on the site.


Fair point.


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## jbander (Jun 11, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> It's the first time any vaccine has ever been rolled out anywhere close to this fast.  They're usually 4 to 6 years at best.
> 
> But you're fighting a  lost cause.  I quit responding to this guy no matter what he says about anything - to me, about me, or about anything else; he's not capable of intelligent or reasoned responses and just wastes time and space on the site.


Solution your ass is gone , never to be seen again. It has been a slice , but you no longer exist.


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## jbander (Jun 11, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Fair point.


Fair point , you want to try that on also ace , we can take care of you just as fast. say go ahead.


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## jbander (Jun 11, 2022)

These idiot liars think they have something to offer others, the only people they are offering it to is from idiots to idiots. They make shit up and it become facts for all of them. Not a ounce of truth, 100% make believe. The easiest way is to  just check their sources. Q anon sites and bozo land.


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## Dagosa (Jun 11, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Most of the super compact 9mm that are useful for concealed carry don’t hold enough rounds for a criminal. Most criminals can’t shoot worth a damn so they want to fill the air with lead and look cool whole doing it.


Really ? As long as you can arm everyone criminals included, you think we’ll be safer ? Hasn’t worked yet. We lead the free world in gun violence and it’s getting worse.


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## Dagosa (Jun 11, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Most of the super compact 9mm that are useful for concealed carry don’t hold enough rounds for a criminal. Most criminals can’t shoot worth a damn so they want to fill the air with lead and look cool whole doing it.


So you’ve discussed this with criminals. One  of the most used guns by criminals is a six shooter….


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## jbander (Jun 11, 2022)

Batcat said:


> No, but then I am not a victim of Trump Derangement Syndrome like you. In the flowing article I found what I consider some reasonable advise for people like you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Weakling!


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## Batcat (Jun 12, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> So you’ve discussed this with criminals. One  of the most used guns by criminals is a six shooter….


I was thinking of the members of the drug gangs shooting up places like Chicago and New York City.

However the home invader, the street thug and the guy that robs convenience stores  may be happy with a revolver as you suggest.


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## Batcat (Jun 12, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Really ? As long as you can arm everyone criminals included, you think we’ll be safer ? Hasn’t worked yet. We lead the free world in gun violence and it’s getting worse.


I know that if I had a choice of everybody including criminals being armed or just criminals I would go with everybody.

 I don’t intend to throw cans of beans at home invaders who are armed with 9mm handguns or even just .38 revolvers. I want the option of grabbing my 12 gauge coach gun or one of my revolvers for home defense. If attacked by some street predator while out and about I want to be able to stop his attack with my legally concealed handgun. 

If you honestly think criminals will line up and and turn their firearms in you must be a Democrat. That makes as much sense as AOC’s plan to do away with air travel and replace it with high speed rail.


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## Dagosa (Jun 12, 2022)

Batcat said:


> know that if I had a choice of everybody including criminals being armed or just criminals I would go with everybody.


A really stupid choice. Hilariously ignorant.
The third choice of only law abiding having guns doesn’t occur to the ignorant.


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## Dagosa (Jun 12, 2022)

Batcat said:


> If you honestly think criminals will line up and and turn their firearms in you must be a Democrat.


Nope. Not a Democrat. But I’m not that stupid  to believe the NRA. Criminal use of firearms drops on average in every state and country with UBC.

Supplying guns to criminals is federally legal, just by being ignorant. Gun a holics have been supplying guns to criminals for decades.


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## Batcat (Jun 12, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Nope. Not a Democrat. But I’m not that stupid  to believe the NRA. Criminal use of firearms drops on average in every state and country with UBC.
> 
> Supplying guns to criminals is federally legal, just by being ignorant. Gun a holics have been supplying guns to criminals for decades.





Dagosa said:


> A really stupid choice. Hilariously ignorant.
> The third choice of only law abiding having guns doesn’t occur to the ignorant.


And how exactly would you find a way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

I find the fact that you even think that is possible to be as hilariously ignorant as you do my comments.

Hopefully you do realize that if you can smuggle tons of drugs into our nation you can also smuggle firearms. If there was no other way for criminals to get guns, smuggling would work just fine.

Many years ago I remember a gun store owner in Tampa was arrested and charged with being involved in smuggling firearms to Ireland to help the Irish Republican Army in their effort to fight the British.

Today many guns from our nation are smuggled into Mexico.





__





						Smuggling of firearms into Mexico - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




_Mexicans have a right to own firearms,[1] but legal purchase from the single Mexican gun shop in Mexico City, controlled by the Army, is extremely difficult.[2] Guns smuggled into Mexico are sometimes obtained at gunshops in the United States and carried across the US-Mexico border.[3][4] In other cases the guns are obtained through Guatemalan borders[5] or stolen from the police or military.[6] Consequently, black market firearms are widely available. Many firearms are acquired in the U.S. by women with no criminal history, who transfer their purchases to smugglers through relatives, boyfriends and acquaintances who then smuggle them to Mexico a few at a time.[7] The most common smuggled firearms include AR-15 and AK-47 type rifles, and FN 5.7 caliber semi-automatic pistols. Many firearms are purchased in the United States in a semi-automatic configuration before being converted to fire as select fire machine guns.[8] Mexico seized in 2009 a combined total of more than 4,400 firearms of the AK-47 and AR-15 type, and 30% of AK-47 type semi-automatic rifles seized have been modified as  select fire weapons.[9]_


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## Dagosa (Jun 12, 2022)

Batcat said:


> That makes as much sense as AOC’s plan to do away with air travel and replace it with high speed rail.


Huh ? Across the Atlantic ? Lets get real. Before you accuse anyone wrongly, let’s get the facts strait. High speed rail is more practical then air travel for many shorter distances. Really, plane travel is necessary mainly between the major hubs. Rail is slowly advancing into our state and others making plane travel much less attractive.

Within the next few decades, plane travel will be revolutionized regardless. Free air propulsion using ionized atmospheric gasses will make planes essentially “ electrified“. I know conservatives really don’t keep up with technology, but high speed rail is much more efficient then plane travel both in time and cost for many commutes, not all,  serviced now by planes. But this AOC gossip from Fix News makes good unscientific gossip for the uninformed minions.


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## Dagosa (Jun 12, 2022)

Batcat said:


> And how exactly would you find a way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.


Here is where the denial comes in and gun a holics start making up shit. Its already done in other countries and in states around the country. Now pretend it isn’t.

In countries that have federalized laws gun use by criminals drops dramatically. Your denials essentially start now where you pretend local, state and federal gun laws are the same…..yawn.


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## Batcat (Jun 12, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Here is where the denial comes in and gun a holics start making up shit. Its already done in other countries and in states around the country. Now pretend it isn’t.
> 
> In countries that have federalized laws gun use by criminals drops dramatically. Your denials essentially start now where you pretend local, state and federal gun laws are the same…..yawn.


There is no state in the United States where some criminals do not have firearms. There are nations where criminal firearms are fairly rare but they didn’t start out as a nation that has more firearms than people. 

 New York City has tough gun laws.


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## woodwork201 (Jun 12, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Huh ? Across the Atlantic ? Lets get real. Before you accuse anyone wrongly, let’s get the facts strait. High speed rail is more practical then air travel for many shorter distances. Really, plane travel is necessary mainly between the major hubs. Rail is slowly advancing into our state and others making plane travel much less attractive.
> 
> Within the next few decades, plane travel will be revolutionized regardless. Free air propulsion using ionized atmospheric gasses will make planes essentially “ electrified“. I know conservatives really don’t keep up with technology, but high speed rail is much more efficient then plane travel both in time and cost for many commutes, not all,  serviced now by planes. But this AOC gossip from Fix News makes good unscientific gossip for the uninformed minions.


The UK is an island and yet they have illegal guns and shootings.


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## woodwork201 (Jun 12, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Huh ? Across the Atlantic ? Lets get real. Before you accuse anyone wrongly, let’s get the facts strait. High speed rail is more practical then air travel for many shorter distances. Really, plane travel is necessary mainly between the major hubs. Rail is slowly advancing into our state and others making plane travel much less attractive.
> 
> Within the next few decades, plane travel will be revolutionized regardless. Free air propulsion using ionized atmospheric gasses will make planes essentially “ electrified“. I know conservatives really don’t keep up with technology, but high speed rail is much more efficient then plane travel both in time and cost for many commutes, not all,  serviced now by planes. But this AOC gossip from Fix News makes good unscientific gossip for the uninformed minions.


I missed the point of your "'across the Atlantic" post.  If you're just talking about travel, I apologize.  But on that topic....

I've never heard of free air propulsion - I'll have to google that which means hours of wasted time but what the hell.  But I'm curious about your statement about high-speed rail being more efficient in cost and time.

If we put the same security for high-speed rail as we have for planes, it will take just as long as a plane for any distance between cities in America.  Rail is better, in time, for local commuting but not for long-distance.  

Maybe we should have a thread to discuss this but one more off-topic question: When you say rail is more efficient in cost, are you suggesting that it would be so with zero government handouts, on it's own? Amtrak pretty much belies that point.  If there's a more efficient, cleaner, less expensive, propulsion system for rail, please share a link to kick off some reading.


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## woodwork201 (Jun 12, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Here is where the denial comes in and gun a holics start making up shit. Its already done in other countries and in states around the country. Now pretend it isn’t.
> 
> In countries that have federalized laws gun use by criminals drops dramatically. Your denials essentially start now where you pretend local, state and federal gun laws are the same…..yawn.


If you outlaw chickens, chicken consumption will drop significantly but people are still going to eat.  That gun violence goes down, or that gun crimes go down, is meaningless.  What needs to happen is to stop crime, regardless of the weapon of choice.  And this is where you would, were I not to already say it, say that we'll never get rid of crime, and you'd be right.  But by addressing crime rather than the tool you reduce all crime instead of just those committed with one tool.

As we can learn from the UK, though you and they all put on blinders because you and they don't want to learn it, if you ban the tool, criminals simply choose another tool and leftists who want the population subjugated ban the next tool.

I watched several episodes on BBC last week of a show that's similar to Cops but it's the British version.  The police pulled someone over and searched for weapons and one of the weapons found was a ratchet with a socket on the end.... Yes, a ratchet is an illegal weapon carried in your car in the UK unless you're a mechanic on the way to a job.   Then, today, I find this little nugget mocking the laws in the UK because they actually do consider a ratchet a weapon:







In fact, in the UK there are no legal weapons of self-defense, even in your home.  According to the police in the UK, the only legal defensive tool is a rape whistle.









						Nearly All Self-defense Products Illegal in U.K. - The New American
					

In Great Britain the world is upside down: Attackers go free while victims go to jail. By comparison, America looks pretty good. by Bob Adelmann




					thenewamerican.com
				




In spite of over-the-top bans on self-defense, or as the result of over-the-top bans on self defense the murder rate has been higher in London than in NYC proving that weapons bans don't apply to murderers and that murderers will simply choose another tool if their first choice tool isn't handy:










						London murder rate overtakes New York's
					

An ex-senior Met Police officer says he is "absolutely devastated" by the figures for 2018.



					www.bbc.com


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## Dagosa (Jun 12, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> If you outlaw chickens, chicken consumption will drop significantly but people are still going to eat.  That gun violence goes down, or that gun crimes go down, is meaningless.  What needs to happen is to stop crime, regardless of the weapon of choice.  And this is where you would, were I not to already say it, say that we'll never get rid of crime, and you'd be right.  But by addressing crime rather than the tool you reduce all crime instead of just those committed with one tool.
> 
> As we can learn from the UK, though you and they all put on blinders because you and they don't want to learn it, if you ban the tool, criminals simply choose another tool and leftists who want the population subjugated ban the next tool.
> 
> ...



And still, on average the states with fewest gun crimes have strictest gun laws. Same for developed nations. We’ve already seen what a farce it is just handing guns over to criminals which you guys support.


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## jbander (Jun 12, 2022)

Batcat said:


> I know that if I had a choice of everybody including criminals being armed or just criminals I would go with everybody.
> 
> I don’t intend to throw cans of beans at home invaders who are armed with 9mm handguns or even just .38 revolvers. I want the option of grabbing my 12 gauge coach gun or one of my revolvers for home defense. If attacked by some street predator while out and about I want to be able to stop his attack with my legally concealed handgun.
> 
> If you honestly think criminals will line up and and turn their firearms in you must be a Democrat. That makes as much sense as AOC’s plan to do away with air travel and replace it with high speed rail.


Just plain nonsense. These people think these comments are point that mean something. 3rd grade childish nonsense, because daddy told them so.


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## Dagosa (Jun 12, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> The UK is an island and yet they have illegal guns and shootings.


Wow, no shit. Try, the US is 34 times more likely to have firearm related crimes. 
But it’s good you finally admit that even though Chicago has tight gun laws, guns can be brought in easily from surrounding states.


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## jbander (Jun 12, 2022)

Batcat said:


> And how exactly would you find a way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.
> 
> I find the fact that you even think that is possible to be as hilariously ignorant as you do my comments.
> 
> ...


you are a total idiot , from1982 to 2022 86% of guns used in mass shooting were legally bought. Canada, the most hunting country in the world, bans handguns because they are the guns that kill everyone.


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## jbander (Jun 12, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> Wow, no shit. Try, the US is 34 times more likely to have firearm related crimes.
> But it’s good you finally admit that even though Chicago has tight gun laws, guns can be brought in easily from surrounding states.


It's simple to see what works, the hate party way of dealing with guns or the democrats way of dealing with guns.


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## jbander (Jun 12, 2022)

It's simple what ever the hate party run states do , just do the opposite, as we all know their way is designed to kill as many as possible. Typical the rights way = stupid!!!!!!!!!


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## Open Bolt (Jun 12, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> One of the most used guns by criminals is a six shooter….


Thanks to progressives, many criminals use compact 9mm pistols.


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## Open Bolt (Jun 12, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> I missed the point of your "'across the Atlantic" post.  If you're just talking about travel, I apologize.  But on that topic....


I'm sure any leftist who insists on replacing domestic planes with domestic trains, will also insist on replacing overseas planes with some sort of shipborne travel.


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## Ridgerunner (Jun 12, 2022)

Biden Position on Guns Is a Joke​


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## woodwork201 (Jun 12, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> And still, on average the states with fewest gun crimes have strictest gun laws. Same for developed nations. We’ve already seen what a farce it is just handing guns over to criminals which you guys support.


Completely red herring argument.

The countries with the fewest chickens have the lowest chicken consumption.  It doesn't mean their people don't have something else to eat.


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## Batcat (Jun 12, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> And still, on average the states with fewest gun crimes have strictest gun laws. Same for developed nations. We’ve already seen what a farce it is just handing guns over to criminals which you guys support.


Why don’t we try enforcing the laws that are on the books. 

For example Hunter Biden lied on the NICS background check form which is a FELONY. Why not prosecute him And others like him who lie on that form? 

Chicago has a high firearm murder rate so why are criminals caught carrying illegal firearms getting off with a slap on the wrist? 

If we prosecuted people who lied on their background check forms fewer people would lie. Fewer bad guys would legally buy firearms. If we enforced other firearm laws on the books we might actually reduce the number of people killed by firearms every year. 

Perhaps the gun grabbers really don’t want to reduce firearm violence in ur nation because if it falls dramatically they will lose their reason to push for gun bans and confiscation. 









						Here’s the proof Hunter Biden lied to get his gun
					

Hunter Biden checked off the box marked “no” next to the question “Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?”




					thepostmillennial.com
				






			https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/09/lying-atf-gun-purchase-form-yields-few-prosecutions-new-data-shows/
		










						Thousands of felony gun cases are being dismissed in Cook County criminal courts - The Chicago Reporter
					

Thousands of felony cases involving a weapons violation are being dismissed in Cook County. Is the public pressure to crack down on gun violence inadvertently driving up these numbers?




					www.chicagoreporter.com


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## Dagosa (Jun 13, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Why don’t we try enforcing the laws that are on the books.


That’s because the AFT is understaff and the director is subject to approval by gun organizations.








						Why the Federal Firearms Agency Can't Find a Permanent Director
					

Amid rising gun crime across America, the ATF has a crucial role to play. So why is it in its sixth year without a permanent director?




					time.com


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## Batcat (Jun 13, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> That’s because the AFT is understaff and the director is subject to approval by gun organizations.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The police arrest so done illegally carrying a handgun and the prosecutor reduces  the charges or lets the criminal walk. In cases like that the AFT has no involvement that I can see. 









						Thousands of felony gun cases are being dismissed in Cook County criminal courts - The Chicago Reporter
					

Thousands of felony cases involving a weapons violation are being dismissed in Cook County. Is the public pressure to crack down on gun violence inadvertently driving up these numbers?




					www.chicagoreporter.com


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## Dagosa (Jun 13, 2022)

Batcat said:


> The police arrest so done illegally carrying a handgun and the prosecutor reduces  the charges or lets the criminal walk. In cases like that the AFT has no involvement that I can see.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The aft is primarily responsible for monitoring sales by FFL dealers. The private sales by individuals to criminals can literally, always walk. That’s your bag.


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## jbander (Jun 13, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Why don’t we try enforcing the laws that are on the books.
> 
> For example Hunter Biden lied on the NICS background check form which is a FELONY. Why not prosecute him And others like him who lie on that form?
> 
> ...


How stupid is stupid ? That would be bringing up Hunter Biden on every single comment about everything else. Now how does this go it's Trump is a criminal , ya but Obama wasn't born here!   Trump is a liar , ya but Hunter Biden YA YA YA , Trump is stupid , ya but Clinton lied, Trump is cruel ya but Biden kisses little girls. Ya but Trump rapes 13-year-old, ya but Obama is a Muslim


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## jbander (Jun 13, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Thanks to progressives, many criminals use compact 9mm pistols.


Like listening to a brick. Goofy people.


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## Dagosa (Jun 13, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Completely red herring argument.
> 
> The countries with the fewest chickens have the lowest chicken consumption.  It doesn't mean their people don't have something else to eat.


That’s it ? Now you’re talking about chickens. Hunter Biden, Hillary and Obama talking points don’t work ?


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## Open Bolt (Jun 13, 2022)

Dagosa said:


> That’s it ? Now you’re talking about chickens.


It was a valid example of why your claims are logically flawed.


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## Dagosa (Jun 13, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> It was a valid example of why your claims are logically flawed.


Chickens ? Wow. Pigs we could understand.


----------

