# 75th Anniversary



## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2020)

75 years since a dark day in human history. Each year there are many ceremonies and visiting dignitaries who gather at the site to memorialize those who died that day, and to resolve to prevent any such actions by anyone in the future. This year, due to the Corona virus, only those remaining survivors and a few government officials were in attendance. 









						Hiroshima marks 75th A-bomb anniversary, urges unity amid pandemic
					

Hiroshima marks the 75th anniversary of its atomic bombing by the United States on Thursday, with its mayor urging the world to unite against grave threats to humanity -- be they nuclear weapons or the novel coronavirus pandemic -- by spurning nationalistic and isolationist policies.




					english.kyodonews.net


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2020)

President Truman said, "You have got to understand that this isn't a military weapon. It is used to wipe out women and children and unarmed people, and not for military uses..."


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## Mac-7 (Aug 6, 2020)

The atomic bomb saved a million lives, including both American and Japanese


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## Disir (Aug 6, 2020)

_My mother was in the house when it collapsed. She also lost her younger sister," Naganuma said. "I grew up in Hiroshima, so Aug. 6 is a day about thinking about the bombing. But when you look outside Hiroshima, I've noticed that even Japanese people now don't know so much about it." _

Yanno, people not remembering this is a smidge terrifying.


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## DigitalDrifter (Aug 6, 2020)

August 6th 1945, and 3 days later Japan cries 'uncle'.


*Atomic bomb dropped on Japan's Hiroshima 75 years ago still reverberates*









						75 years after Hiroshima, they're still feeling its impact
					

“It’s too late to stand up after everyone dies,” said Masaaki Takano, 82, who walked home from school amid toxic "black rain" that followed the blast.




					www.nbcnews.com


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> The atomic bomb saved a million lives, including both American and Japanese


That tired old story is banal speculation meant to avoid a difficult moral issue.


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## DigitalDrifter (Aug 6, 2020)




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## jwoodie (Aug 6, 2020)

DigitalDrifter said:


> Atomic bomb dropped on Japan's Hiroshima 75 years ago still reverberates


Murderous attack on USA's Pearl Harbor 79 years ago still reverberates.  As do Japan's unspeakable atrocities against Korea and China.  I hope they remember it for a long time, not to mention the fact that it saved them from an invasion that would have killed millions more of their own people.


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## Alexandre Fedorovski (Aug 6, 2020)

WARNING This post contains graphic images that may be disturbing to viewers. Viewer discretion is advised 


Sixteen hours after the bombing, the White House released a statement by *President Harry S. Truman*, who was en route from the *Potsdam Conference* aboard the U.S.S. _Augusta_.  "It is an atomic bomb," Truman announced, "_harnessing . . . the basic power of the universe.  The force from which the sun draws its power has been loosed against those who brought war to the Far East_." 


The immediate public response to news of the Manhattan Project and the atomic bombings of Japan, as filtered through the project's public relations efforts, was overwhelmingly favorable.  When asked simply "do you approve of the use of the atomic bomb?", 85 percent of Americans in one August 1945 poll replied "yes."  Few doubted that the atomic bomb had *ended the war* and saved American lives, and after almost four years of war, few retained much sympathy for Japan.  The writer Paul Fussell, who as a 21-year-old second lieutenant was slated to be part of the invasion force going into Japan, perhaps has put it most succinctly:



> When the bombs dropped and news began to circulate that [the invasion] would not, after all, take place, that we would not be obliged to run up the beaches near Tokyo assault-firing while being mortared and shelled, for all the fake manliness of our facades we cried with relief and joy. We were going to live. We were going to grow up to adulthood after all.


A certain sense of remorse also slowly began to build among the public, especially as details became known of the destruction at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  An important early step in this process was when the entire August 21, 1946, issue of _The New Yorker_ magazine was devoted to stories of the devastation of Hiroshima.  (These articles were later reprinted as a book: John Hersey's _Hiroshima_.)


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## BasicHumanUnit (Aug 6, 2020)

And if Japan had not ATTACKED AMERICA, guess what.....they wouldn't have had to go through it at all.

Pearl Harbor, After Japan attacks America.   Thousands of Americans perish
































Ninety minutes after it began, the attack was over. 2,008 sailors were killed and 710 others wounded; 218 soldiers and airmen (who were part of the Army prior to the independent United States Air Force in 1947) were killed and 364 wounded; 109 marines were killed and 69 wounded; and 68 civilians were killed and 35 wounded. In total, 2,403 Americans were killed, and 1,143 were wounded.[93] Eighteen ships were sunk or run aground, including five battleships.[10][94] All of the Americans killed or wounded during the attack were legally non-combatants, given that there was no state of war when the attack occurred.[21][22][95]

Of the American fatalities, nearly half were due to the explosion of _Arizona_'s forward magazine after it was hit by a modified 16-inch (410 mm) shell.[nb 16] Author Craig Nelson wrote that the vast majority of the U.S. sailors killed at Pearl Harbor were junior enlisted personnel. "The officers of the Navy all lived in houses and the junior people were the ones on the boats, so pretty much all of the people who died in the direct line of the attack were very junior people", Nelson said. "So everyone is about 17 or 18 whose story is told there


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## Propofol (Aug 6, 2020)

"
*Seventy-Аive Years Ago on August, 6 We Killed a Hundred Thousand People"*
LEARN TO SPELL!
WHO IS WE?

HIROSHIMA WAS A BLAST!
SHOWED THEM THAT USA IS #1 YOU BUTTERCUP!


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## eagle7-31 (Aug 6, 2020)

Alexandre Fedorovski said:


> WARNING This post contains graphic images that may be disturbing to viewers. Viewer discretion is advised
> 
> 
> Sixteen hours after the bombing, the White House released a statement by *President Harry S. Truman*, who was en route from the *Potsdam Conference* aboard the U.S.S. _Augusta_.  "It is an atomic bomb," Truman announced, "_harnessing . . . the basic power of the universe.  The force from which the sun draws its power has been loosed against those who brought war to the Far East_."
> ...


Invading Japan in 1945-46 the US would have had 1 million casualties. While I can understand second thoughts years later, I believe dropping the bomb was the right decision.


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## my2¢ (Aug 6, 2020)

I wasn't around back then but it gives me an idea what our U.S. forces were up against when the first atomic bomb alone  wasn't enough to put an end to the Japanese' war effort.


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## Shelzin (Aug 6, 2020)

War sucks... News at eleven.


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## Death Angel (Aug 6, 2020)

It was necessary. AND WE'D DO IT AGAIN!


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## BasicHumanUnit (Aug 6, 2020)

Today Japan and The USA are close allies.

I guess we did what we had to and the Japanese realize it.


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## BasicHumanUnit (Aug 6, 2020)

Death Angel said:


> It was necessary. AND WE'D DO IT AGAIN!



Well, we were the only ones on the planet who had nukes at the time.

I guess if we had been the evil, War Mongering death state that leftists claim the USA is, we could have demanded the surrender of ALL nation states at that time including Russia.  It was about a year later before Russia had a working nuke


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## Alexandre Fedorovski (Aug 6, 2020)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> And if Japan had not ATTACKED AMERICA, guess what.....they wouldn't have had to go through it at all.
> 
> Pearl Harbor, After Japan attacks America.   Thousands of Americans perish



We CAN talk about it SINCE  the lack of reaction of the American military authorities to _the numerous warnings about the forthcoming Japanese attack_ at that time is COMPLETELY SIMILAR  to THE LACK OF RESPONSE of the administration of the reincarnated alcoholic Bush Jr. _to warnings by CIA and Mossad field officers _about the presence in the country of a group of young Arabs _who were trained to drive wide-body Boein_g, but who_ systematically missed landing classes.

And what were ordinary Japanese people to blame for - men, women, old people ... children???  You SO love to talk about them!_

I am READY for THIS discussion.


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## Theowl32 (Aug 6, 2020)

Yeah the Japanese reaped what they sowed.



The Nanking massacre alone. They could have surrendered and instead they were making clandestine plans to surrender to stalin.

The cold war began with with the USSR after the Yalta Conference in February of 1945.

The choice for democrat Truman was...

Let the ussr take Japan after the US fought the war with Japan.

Go to war with the ussr like Patton wanted since we had a distinct logistical advantage and the ussr made it clear they were planning to aggressively spread communism to the world. It still would have cost a hundred thousand American lives and would have been an impossible sell to the American people which is essential according Sun Tzus Art of War.

Drop the bombs and let the ussr what is coming their way if they don't back off. August 8th 1945 the ussr declares war on Japan since they were obviously considering not surrendering to the ussr after Hiroshima. August 9th Nagasaki is dropped. August 15th Japanese Emperor announces UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER.

What do you do?


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## Indeependent (Aug 6, 2020)

Alexandre Fedorovski said:


> WARNING This post contains graphic images that may be disturbing to viewers. Viewer discretion is advised
> 
> 
> Sixteen hours after the bombing, the White House released a statement by *President Harry S. Truman*, who was en route from the *Potsdam Conference* aboard the U.S.S. _Augusta_.  "It is an atomic bomb," Truman announced, "_harnessing . . . the basic power of the universe.  The force from which the sun draws its power has been loosed against those who brought war to the Far East_."
> ...


If every war resulted in a nuclear response, wars would end yesterday.


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## BasicHumanUnit (Aug 6, 2020)

Alexandre Fedorovski said:


> BasicHumanUnit said:
> 
> 
> > And if Japan had not ATTACKED AMERICA, guess what.....they wouldn't have had to go through it at all.
> ...



So, you BLAME the USA because we were not at war with Japan and weren't expecting an attack......

You're sick

End of debate


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## EvilCat Breath (Aug 6, 2020)

Propofol said:


> "
> *Seventy-Аive Years Ago on August, 6 We Killed a Hundred Thousand People"*
> LEARN TO SPELL!
> WHO IS WE?
> ...


The Japanese didn't listen so we had to do it again in Nagasaki.

Proud to be an American.


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## Alexandre Fedorovski (Aug 6, 2020)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> gulfman said:
> 
> 
> > Conservatives would pay to watch a democratic city get nuked.
> ...



No doubt. By the way... the most impossible under certain circumstances becomes POSSIBLE. 

Can you fully foresee WHAT will be in the country in two months ???


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## John T. Ford (Aug 6, 2020)

Alexandre Fedorovski said:


> WARNING This post contains graphic images that may be disturbing to viewers. Viewer discretion is advised
> 
> 
> Sixteen hours after the bombing, the White House released a statement by *President Harry S. Truman*, who was en route from the *Potsdam Conference* aboard the U.S.S. _Augusta_.  "It is an atomic bomb," Truman announced, "_harnessing . . . the basic power of the universe.  The force from which the sun draws its power has been loosed against those who brought war to the Far East_."
> ...



God Bless the USA and our ability to STOP EVIL in it's track ....

Ready for round 3 ....

This is what the American Left has to look forward too ....


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## BasicHumanUnit (Aug 6, 2020)

John T. Ford said:


> BasicHumanUnit said:
> 
> 
> > And if Japan had not ATTACKED AMERICA, guess what.....they wouldn't have had to go through it at all.
> ...



Unfortunately, we have almost none of the type of Americans who are willing to take a stand, today

"All that was required for evil men to prevail was for good men to do nothing"


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## John T. Ford (Aug 6, 2020)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> Unfortunately, we have almost none of the type of Americans who are willing to take a stand, today
> 
> "All that was required for evil men to prevail was for good men to do nothing"


Yes ....

A reality that is difficult to ponder upon ...


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## John T. Ford (Aug 6, 2020)

Alexandre Fedorovski said:


> *First of all, I blame the Christian Church*, the United States government,  the settlers, and someone else for GENOCIDE of THE HUNDRED MILLION Native Americans - who owned this land.
> 
> End of discussion


And, pink unicorns ....

Don't forget to blame the pink unicorns .... they were striking that year because of cheap Japanese horseshoes!

Fuckin psycho Leftist ......

Go Figure !!!!


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## Indeependent (Aug 6, 2020)

Alexandre Fedorovski said:


> BasicHumanUnit said:
> 
> 
> > Alexandre Fedorovski said:
> ...


Yeah...Because the Native Americans lived in complete peace and harmony with each other just like all Europeans and Asians.
Feeling stupid yet?


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## Alexandre Fedorovski (Aug 6, 2020)

John T. Ford said:


> Alexandre Fedorovski said:
> 
> 
> > WARNING This post contains graphic images that may be disturbing to viewers. Viewer discretion is advised
> ...





John T. Ford said:


> Alexandre Fedorovski said:
> 
> 
> > WARNING This post contains graphic images that may be disturbing to viewers. Viewer discretion is advised
> ...


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2020)

eagle7-31 said:


> ...
> Invading Japan in 1945-46 the US would have had 1 million casualties....



Speculation. And invasion was not the only other option.


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## Alexandre Fedorovski (Aug 6, 2020)

John T. Ford said:


> BasicHumanUnit said:
> 
> 
> > Unfortunately, we have almost none of the type of Americans who are willing to take a stand, today
> ...



However, like most Americans, he did not know the definition of communism.

Anyway, one sacred book says that only ONE people are HUMAN beings, the rest are NOT.


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## John T. Ford (Aug 6, 2020)

Alexandre Fedorovski said:


> However, like most Americans, he did not know the definition of communism.
> *Anyway, one sacred book says that only ONE people are HUMAN beings , the rest are NOT.[*/QUOTE]


Hey Genius ...

Your thread is not about B.Hussein's Holy Q'uran ......

It's about America stomping out Leftist evil in this world ....

Please try to stay on track!!!


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## BasicHumanUnit (Aug 6, 2020)

Alexandre Fedorovski said:


> John T. Ford said:
> 
> 
> > BasicHumanUnit said:
> ...



Oh, "He" knows the definition of Communism better than you apparently.

"He" also apparently has a far better grasp on the wickedness and propensity for corruption always associated with it.

Too bad you don't.  If you did, you wouldn't need to hide behind your cloak of ambiguity.


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## John T. Ford (Aug 6, 2020)

Psycho Leftist ...

This thread is proof why Freedom and Liberty Loving American MUST take a stand against this kind of Leftist EVIL !!


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## Tijn Von Ingersleben (Aug 6, 2020)

Alexandre Fedorovski said:


> WARNING This post contains graphic images that may be disturbing to viewers. Viewer discretion is advised
> 
> 
> Sixteen hours after the bombing, the White House released a statement by *President Harry S. Truman*, who was en route from the *Potsdam Conference* aboard the U.S.S. _Augusta_.  "It is an atomic bomb," Truman announced, "_harnessing . . . the basic power of the universe.  The force from which the sun draws its power has been loosed against those who brought war to the Far East_."
> ...


They can suck a fat dick.


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## Mikeoxenormous (Aug 6, 2020)

Alexandre Fedorovski said:


> WARNING This post contains graphic images that may be disturbing to viewers. Viewer discretion is advised
> 
> 
> Sixteen hours after the bombing, the White House released a statement by *President Harry S. Truman*, who was en route from the *Potsdam Conference* aboard the U.S.S. _Augusta_.  "It is an atomic bomb," Truman announced, "_harnessing . . . the basic power of the universe.  The force from which the sun draws its power has been loosed against those who brought war to the Far East_."
> ...


Because of what we did in Japan twice, since then there has been no world wars after that.  So you could say that the atomic bomb should be given the Nobel Peace Prize for keeping world peace...


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 6, 2020)

Alexandre Fedorovski said:


> WARNING This post contains graphic images that may be disturbing to viewers. Viewer discretion is advised
> 
> 
> Sixteen hours after the bombing, the White House released a statement by *President Harry S. Truman*, who was en route from the *Potsdam Conference* aboard the U.S.S. _Augusta_.  "It is an atomic bomb," Truman announced, "_harnessing . . . the basic power of the universe.  The force from which the sun draws its power has been loosed against those who brought war to the Far East_."
> ...


Hey riddle me this.... How many Chinese did Japan butcher rape and murder? How many US and Filipinos in the Philippines did the Japanese Butcher Rape and Murder?  How many of the residents of the Dutch East Indies did Japan Butcher rape and Murder? How many in Malaysia and Indochina, or Burma?


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## John T. Ford (Aug 6, 2020)

These psycho Leftist are trying to say America was immoral for nuking this kind of Leftist Evil?

What would have been the Alternative?

Ask yourself that question?

Japan taking away America's Freedom and Liberties and enslaving this Great Nation under some Leftist totalitarianism?

*You realize that is the very same thing these EVIL motherfuckers are trying to do to this Country today ....*

That is the very reason why they are trying to shame us for blasting the fuck out of Japan ...

Fuck these Evil Leftist motherfuckers like this POS in the OP ...

See our ENEMIES for who they are .....


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2020)

Theowl32 said:


> ...
> 
> The Nanking massacre alone. They could have surrendered ...



There were feelers out looking for a chance to negotiate a surrender, even before Okinawa. fdr had no interest in peace before testing his new toy. The lapdog truman filled out his master's final wish by incinerating hundreds of thousands of women, children, and the elderly.


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## Alexandre Fedorovski (Aug 6, 2020)

John T. Ford said:


> Alexandre Fedorovski said:
> 
> 
> > However, like most Americans, he did not know the definition of communism.
> ...



And what, IS someone here UNAWARE of the fact that the conspiracy among Bush - Biden - the political elite of this country was aimed at Iraqi oil and the destruction of ANOTHER anti-Zionist state - the enemy of Israel ???


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## OKTexas (Aug 6, 2020)

Alexandre Fedorovski said:


> BasicHumanUnit said:
> 
> 
> > And if Japan had not ATTACKED AMERICA, guess what.....they wouldn't have had to go through it at all.
> ...




Are you under the delusion they would have been spared given the conventional bombing technology of the time. You only need look at the carpet bombing that took place in Europe to find the answer, it would be a resounding NO.

.


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## Alexandre Fedorovski (Aug 6, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Thank you for your honesty, knowledge, and humanity.


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## whitehall (Aug 6, 2020)

I'm not defending it nor condemning it but we have to understand the fact that the world went crazy during WW2.  The accepted way to defeat the enemy was to keep killing civilians until the leadership surrendered.


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## John T. Ford (Aug 6, 2020)

Alexandre Fedorovski said:


> And what, IS someone here UNAWARE of the fact that the conspiracy among Bush - Biden - the political elite of this country was aimed at Iraqi oil and the destruction of ANOTHER anti-Zionist state - the enemy of Israel ???


I am not interested in your psycho conspiracy theories ....

Your shit dump in the OP was enough ....


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## John T. Ford (Aug 6, 2020)

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


> They can suck a fat dick.


Or a short skinny one ....


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## 2aguy (Aug 6, 2020)

Alexandre Fedorovski said:


> WARNING This post contains graphic images that may be disturbing to viewers. Viewer discretion is advised
> 
> 
> Sixteen hours after the bombing, the White House released a statement by *President Harry S. Truman*, who was en route from the *Potsdam Conference* aboard the U.S.S. _Augusta_.  "It is an atomic bomb," Truman announced, "_harnessing . . . the basic power of the universe.  The force from which the sun draws its power has been loosed against those who brought war to the Far East_."
> ...




Hmmmm....you could ask the Chinese civilians raped, tortured, butchered during the Rape of Nanking how they felt about ending the war with the atomic bombs.....but the Japanese raped, tortured and murdered them...............


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## Dick Foster (Aug 6, 2020)

Alexandre Fedorovski said:


> WARNING This post contains graphic images that may be disturbing to viewers. Viewer discretion is advised
> 
> 
> Sixteen hours after the bombing, the White House released a statement by *President Harry S. Truman*, who was en route from the *Potsdam Conference* aboard the U.S.S. _Augusta_.  "It is an atomic bomb," Truman announced, "_harnessing . . . the basic power of the universe.  The force from which the sun draws its power has been loosed against those who brought war to the Far East_."
> ...


Only 100 thousand? It wasn't nearly enough for what those bastards did.  Not just to us but to all of Asia too.


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## 2aguy (Aug 6, 2020)

gulfman said:


> Conservatives would pay to watch a democratic city get nuked.




No, they wouldn't.....but the democrat party would think about destroying an American city with a bomb if it meant winning in November...


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## HenryBHough (Aug 6, 2020)

Remarkable coincidence!

The very day Harry S Truman saved several hundred thousand AMERICAN lives!


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## Mikeoxenormous (Aug 6, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


How many thousands of women, children and elderly did the Japs murder during the war?

Battlefield as Crime Scene: The Japanese Massacre in Manila


> *A mother and child are among the victims of widespread butchery. Civilian dead totaled around 100,000—many tortured and murdered. (National Archives)*



Seems that you are okay with Japs murdering people, but we stop those murderers and you hate US.

Oh and by the way, there were no innocent Japs, in Japan, they were all training to repel a US invasion of the Japan homeland which could of exterminated all Japanese.  So Democrat Truman did the Japs a favor and saved more lives than he killed...


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## WillowTree (Aug 6, 2020)

anybody ever read a book called The Bataan Death March? The Japanese were a brutal Force to be recokened with.  They were offered a chance to end the war and refused so as you know it took a second bomb to get their submission and you better believe if Japan had those bombs they would have happily dropped them on us!


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## 2aguy (Aug 6, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...




That's a lie.....They wanted to end the war with their power intact.....that wasn't going to happen.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Aug 6, 2020)

*Seventy-Аive Years Ago on August, 6 We Killed a Hundred Thousand People*

And saved many multiples of that..........


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 6, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> If every war resulted in a nuclear response, wars would end yesterday.


Along with our civilization. But hey... No more war, then!


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## HenryBHough (Aug 6, 2020)

Give it another century or so and Japan will have been punished enough.  But only if we keep at it.


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## TheGreatSatan (Aug 6, 2020)

If you don't think democrats hate America and Americans and want to punish them, threads like this should convince you.  

Democrats believe America is evil and must be fundamentally transformed/destroyed.


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## HenryBHough (Aug 6, 2020)

TheGreatSatan said:


> If you don't think democrats hate America and Americans and want to punish them, threads like this should convince you.
> 
> Democrats believe America is evil and must be fundamentally transformed/destroyed.



OK.

But tomorrow they might not.

It depends on what George Soros tells Nancy Pelosi to tell them to believe and for how many hours or days.


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## TheGreatSatan (Aug 6, 2020)

HenryBHough said:


> TheGreatSatan said:
> 
> 
> > If you don't think democrats hate America and Americans and want to punish them, threads like this should convince you.
> ...


Democrats are run by a nazi collaborator. Says all you need to know about them and what they want for America.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 6, 2020)

José said:


> > Originally posted by *Theowl32*
> > Yeah the Japanese reaped what they sowed.
> 
> 
> ...


Spot on! Muslims were so peaceful before that. We had to crush them in a world war to make them that peaceful. Which really wasn't all that peaceful, as you can see if you read about radical islam in the 1930s.


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## TheGreatSatan (Aug 6, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> José said:
> 
> 
> > > Originally posted by *Theowl32*
> ...


The one thing Democrats hate more then white people is Jews.


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## Mac-7 (Aug 6, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> That tired old story is banal speculation meant to avoid a difficult moral issue.


Not at all

an allied invasion  of Japan would have resulted in massive loss of life


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2020)

John T. Ford said:


> These psycho Leftist are trying to say America was immoral for nuking this kind of Leftist Evil?
> 
> ...




"Leftist"?


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2020)

andaronjim said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Theowl32 said:
> ...



Japanese civilians, or the Japanese military?


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > That tired old story is banal speculation meant to avoid a difficult moral issue.
> ...


That was not the only other option.


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## Mac-7 (Aug 6, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> That was not the only other option.


I dont know what you have in mind but the bomb ended the war in the fastest and with the least loss of life


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## westwall (Aug 6, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Mac-7 said:
> 
> 
> > The atomic bomb saved a million lives, including both American and Japanese
> ...







No, it is factual and supported by the experience on Saipan.

Look up pole bayonet.   They were to be given to the civilians so they could tie them to poles and charge the US troops coming ashore.

That is a fact.  The idea was to get under our firepower before to many got killed.  It was madness.   A madness that was only halted after Hirohito survived a coup attempt by those who wanted to fight to the end.


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## Mac-7 (Aug 6, 2020)

westwall said:


> That is a fact. The idea was to get under our firepower before to many got killed. It was madness. A madness that was only halted after Hirohito survived a coup attempt by those who wanted to fight to the end.


True

Hirohito recorded his famous message to the japanese people and a group of army officers stormed the palace looking for the recording.  They didnt find it and the coup failed


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2020)

2aguy said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Theowl32 said:
> ...



The conditions offered in peace overtures were the same ones that we ultimately accepted after incinerating hundreds of thousands of civilians. 





__





						Chicago Tribune History
					

The IHR, an independent, public interest history research and publishing center, seeks to promote peace and freedom through greater awareness of the past.




					www.ihr.org


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > That was not the only other option.
> ...



More speculation.


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## Mac-7 (Aug 6, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> More speculation.


that was the judgement of the military planners at the time


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## BreezeWood (Aug 6, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> 75 years since a dark day in human history. Each year there are many ceremonies and visiting dignitaries who gather at the site to memorialize those who died that day, and to resolve to prevent any such actions by anyone in the future. This year, due to the Corona virus, only those remaining survivors and a few government officials were in attendance.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


.
the bomb was doped when they first decided to build it ... 

a war they were winning anyway.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2020)

westwall said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Mac-7 said:
> ...



Starving, demoralized women, children, and the elderly were not going to charge US Marines with sticks. You are swallowing 75 year old propaganda that was intended at the time to stir up civilian support, which had by then run just about out.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > More speculation.
> ...


Top military men at the time did not agree with the use of the atomic bomb on a defeated opponent's civilian population.


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## Alexandre Fedorovski (Aug 6, 2020)

TheGreatSatan said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > José said:
> ...



Is the House of Representatives (but black people) not TOTALLY Jewish???


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## Mac-7 (Aug 6, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Starving, demoralized women, children, and the elderly were not going to charge US Marines with sticks.


Do you want to bet?

15,000 civilians jumped off a cliff on Siapan

if they had been order to they would have just as readily charged enemy soldiers


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 6, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Top military men at the time did not agree with the use of the atomic bomb on a defeated opponent's civilian population.


And others did agree with using the bomb


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Starving, demoralized women, children, and the elderly were not going to charge US Marines with sticks.
> ...



This is where your cultural ignorance comes into play.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2020)

2aguy said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Theowl32 said:
> ...





			archive.ph


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Mac-7 said:
> 
> 
> > The atomic bomb saved a million lives, including both American and Japanese
> ...


There is no moral issue. Japan started a war and lost. End of story.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

Missouri_Mike said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Mac-7 said:
> ...



If you don't think that targeting and incinerating hundreds of thousands of civilians is a moral issue, _you_ have a very serious moral issue.


----------



## Markle (Aug 7, 2020)

Tipsycatlover said:


> Propofol said:
> 
> 
> > "
> ...



True.

A contributing factor was that communications were nothing close to what we have today.  Many of Japan's leadership did not believe the bombing at Hiroshima was not as bad as they were being told.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Aug 7, 2020)

Markle said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> > Propofol said:
> ...


I am seriously glad that it was us that had that bomb and used it.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

archive.ph


----------



## Markle (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Mac-7 said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



Other than unconditional surrender, what other option?


----------



## westwall (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...








Yeah, they were.  The pole bayonets were built dude.  It is you who are sucking down propaganda. 

Feel free to refute the training sheets that were found during the occupation that described the strategy. 

Feel free to refute the actual bayonets themselves that have been traded by collectors since the end of the war.

Provide evidence, and not opinion.


----------



## westwall (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...








It saved more than it cost.  Besides the Japanese are in no position to talk about morals after the atrocities they committed against the asian nations they conquered.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

westwall said:


> ... The pole bayonets were built ....



Of course they were. Government reps even organized neighborhood 'practice' sessions. All of which was an attempt to stir up support among a population that had long since grown tired of the war. Clear-thinking, intelligent people (you know, people not like you) realized what was really going on.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

westwall said:


> ...Besides the Japanese are in no position to talk about morals after the atrocities they committed against the asian nations they conquered.



Your childishly obvious fallacy aside, it is not about Japan talking, it is about Americans considering a very consequential moral issue. "But Mommy, that other boy did something bad!" has nothing to do with the question of morality in the decision that truman made on behalf of America. 

And, no matter how many times you attempt to appeal to that emotion, it has never been suggested that America used the atom bomb in an act of revenge on behalf of other nations. It was an American decision, and it is irresponsible to close our eyes and refuse to even consider it because questioning a long-held narrative is uncomfortable.


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> This is where your cultural ignorance comes into play.


In case you havent noticed, you ran out of arguements several posts back and have nothing now except personal insults


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> If you don't think that targeting and incinerating hundreds of thousands of civilians is a moral issue, _you_ have a very serious moral issue.


Every 5 years or so the usual revisionist historians rant about the end of WWII and how mean we were to the japanese

but rational people at the time realized how costly an invasion of the japanese mainland would be

the experiences on Siapan and the kamakaze attacks on the US fleet were evidence of how far japanese were willing to go

the atomic bomb was our answer to that threat


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 7, 2020)

Markle said:


> Other than unconditional surrender, what other option?


I asked the same question but got no answer


----------



## Flash (Aug 7, 2020)

The dumbass Japs learned the hard way that you shouldn't fuck with the USA, didn't they?

What in the hell were those morons thinking?  Play stupid games and get stupid prizes.

The stupid Japs really cooked their goose at Okinawa.  They thought it would be cool to fight to the last man and show the Americans that they would suffer heavy losses if they invaded.  What could possibly go wrong?  However, it didn't quite go as planned, did it? The lesson that the Americans learned was it would be better to just nuke the bastards.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 7, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > If every war resulted in a nuclear response, wars would end yesterday.
> ...


There are not nearly enough nukes to destroy civilization.


----------



## Mindful (Aug 7, 2020)

westwall said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Missouri_Mike said:
> ...



I’ve been reading about what they did to the Americans. In the Philippines.


----------



## John T. Ford (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> "Leftist"?


Yes


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


And yet you totally IGNORE ll the times Japan did exactly that.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > If you don't think that targeting and incinerating hundreds of thousands of civilians is a moral issue, _you_ have a very serious moral issue.
> ...



There is nothing "revisionist" about studying history and considering important questions that might make the weak-minded uncomfortable. You sound a lot like the global warming fanatics who are thrown into seizures by the very notion of considering the veracity of the issue. They scream "settled science!" the same way you scream "revisionist history!" whenever the pet topic or comfortable narrative is even glanced at. Real historians don't stop studying  history just because _you_ have found something _you_ are comfortable with that _you_ want to believe absolves _you_ from ever thinking about it again.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> ...
> 
> the experiences on Siapan and the kamakaze attacks on the US fleet were evidence of ...



You lack the equipment under your hair to understand what those experiences really indicated.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

John T. Ford said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > "Leftist"?
> ...


No


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Mac-7 said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


It seems that only people who already hate America have a problem with using the atomic bomb on japan

they often match Hiroshima with a belief that America started the Cold War and the soviets were innocent victims of American meanness


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

Flash said:


> The ... learned the hard way that you shouldn't fuck with the USA, didn't they?
> 
> What in the hell were those morons thinking?  Play stupid games and get stupid prizes.
> 
> The stupid ... really cooked their goose at Okinawa.  They thought it would be cool to fight to the last man and show the Americans that they would suffer heavy losses if they invaded.  What could possibly go wrong?  However, it didn't quite go as planned, did it? The lesson that the Americans learned was it would be better to just nuke the bastards.



Here we see the impressive scholarship of the Bud Light Breakfast Club type.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> ...
> It seems that only people who hate America have a problem with using the atomic bomb on japan
> ....



This would be an embarrassing fallacy for a middle school playground. Stop wasting time with such juvenile bullshit.


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> This would be an embarrassing fallacy for a middle school playground. Stop wasting time with such juvenile bullshit.


Ok

Briefly sum up American history for the period 1945-1955 in your own words


----------



## there4eyeM (Aug 7, 2020)

So, everyone has again had the opportunity to trot out his regular regurgitation on every anniversary of this event. No one listens to anyone else and nothing is changed. No view is altered. Unspeakable horror was again visited by people upon their brothers and sisters and virtually assures that more unspeakable horrors will be visited upon us. We don't seem able to save ourselves from ourselves.


----------



## Jimmy_Chitwood (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> 75 years since a dark day in human history. Each year there are many ceremonies and visiting dignitaries who gather at the site to memorialize those who died that day, and to resolve to prevent any such actions by anyone in the future. This year, due to the Corona virus, only those remaining survivors and a few government officials were in attendance.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Good call.


More people died at Okinawa than in both Atomic bombs.


We needed more sooner.


The Nips could dish it but can't take it.

Oh well.

NMFP


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


I have no moral issues. Know your enemy. Japan went through China and other countries enslaving, starving and killing everyone they came into contact with the majority of which were civilian. They teamed up with Germany who was hurling rockets into London think there were any civilians there? Japan was sending balloons with bombs to our West coast. Did they have a note on them “military only”? Of course not. If they could have reached LA it would have been gone.

Here’s the morality of the situation. Japan started a war with us and after a long costly fight we ended it in two days by putting a hundred thousand of theirs in the fucking ground. Sucked all the fight right out of them assholes. We lost nobody on mainland Japan to do it. And we didn’t keep going to prove the point. We quit when they quit. That was both moral and merciful.


----------



## Flash (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > The ... learned the hard way that you shouldn't fuck with the USA, didn't they?
> ...




Then we see your impressive scholarly rantings of a surrender monkey.

You should have been Dutch.  They surrendered to the Germans in a few hours.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 7, 2020)

Missouri_Mike said:


> There is no moral issue. Japan started a war and lost. End of story.


If you're simple....


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 7, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > Other than unconditional surrender, what other option?
> ...


The third option was a siege.

A fourth option was a demonstration of the bomb meant to be observed by japanese military leaders.


----------



## Camp (Aug 7, 2020)

This debate will never be resolved.


----------



## DGS49 (Aug 7, 2020)

The debate was resolved a hundred years ago.

Once you embark on a "total" war - including attacks against civilians - there is essentially no limit to what is permissible.  The difference between killing a hundred thousand people, one at a time, and a hundred thousand people with one bomb is meaningless.  In this case it was a choice between (in the case of bombing and a land invasion) killing hundreds of thousands of Japanese alongside a slightly lesser number of Americans, versus killing a hundred thousand Japanese, FULL STOP.

There is no debate among sane people on this issue.


----------



## The Irish Ram (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Mac-7 said:
> 
> 
> > The atomic bomb saved a million lives, including both American and Japanese
> ...



There was no moral issue for America.  My Dad coming home was the issue...
If bombing Japan saved 1 American life, then it was worth it.   Keep in mind, Japan was so into this war that THEY STARTED, that it took *2 Bombs* to convince them to stop killing Americans.

The moral issue was, "Should we, the Japanese, decide to declare war on innocent Americans and kill as many of them as they  can?"   *Stopping *the Japanese from killing us wasn't a moral issue, it was a necessity.

Again, it took *2 bombs *to convince the Japanese that they made a costly immoral decision to start killing Americans.  They were *that *driven to continue their violence against us.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

Mindful said:


> ...
> 
> I’ve been reading about what they did to the Americans. In the Philippines.



Who did? The women, children, and elderly people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945? How did they get all the way over there?


----------



## Mindful (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Don’t bother.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

DGS49 said:


> ...
> 
> There is no debate among sane people on this issue.



Typical democrat approach to any argument. Listen to democrats carefully, particularly the farther left you go. If you pay attention you will almost always hear a "it is beyond dispute" or "everyone knows" or "there can be no debate" at some point that they wish to simply insist upon rather than think about.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > This would be an embarrassing fallacy for a middle school playground. Stop wasting time with such juvenile bullshit.
> ...



No, because history isn't something simple that fits on the back of a cereal box, except for simpletons who are incapable of anything more.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

Jimmy_Chitwood said:


> ... could dish it but can't take it.
> 
> Oh well.
> ...



What does that mean in this context?


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

Missouri_Mike said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Missouri_Mike said:
> ...



Then you have no morality. A person can still agree with the decision to use the bomb without cravenly avoiding the central moral issue involved.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

Missouri_Mike said:


> ... Japan went through China and other countries enslaving, starving and killing everyone they came into contact with ....



So America used the atomic bomb, not for our own interests but in revenge for other nations? Got a quote from a civilian or military leader making that case?


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

Missouri_Mike said:


> ...we ended it in two days ....



That is not correct.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

Missouri_Mike said:


> ...We lost nobody on mainland Japan to do it. ...




That is also not correct.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

Flash said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Flash said:
> ...



Do you even know what you are trying to say? What does your post have to do with anything related to this topic? You may be reading from the wrong sheet of talking points. Go have another Bud Light.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Mac-7 said:
> 
> 
> > Markle said:
> ...



Another option might have been pursuing the opportunity for a negotiated surrender long before all this, which would have saved untold numbers of American lives. Of course fdr had no interest in something like that.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

Camp said:


> This debate will never be resolved.



Most likely so.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

The Irish Ram said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Mac-7 said:
> ...



Then you don't understand morality, and you don't understand what America stands for.


----------



## Camp (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> > This debate will never be resolved.
> ...


I suspect changes may occur when WWII participants and their children are gone and future generations with little if any connection enters the debate.


----------



## John T. Ford (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> No


By all means ....

Go ahead and parrot your Leftist history revisionist crap. 

I would not expect anything different from the Sheeple.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

John T. Ford said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > No
> ...




What the hell are you talking about? Where do you see "leftist" or "revisionist"? Or are you just jumping at your own shadow?


----------



## Camp (Aug 7, 2020)

I find it a bit disturbing how rarely Russia entering the war with Japan is brought up in these discussions.  Plenty of scholars, from all sides, believe it was a key element in our decision for dropping the bombs and insisting on an immediate surrender. Russia rolled over Japanese forces in China and was fully prepared for invading mainland Japan.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

Camp said:


> I find it a bit disturbing how rarely Russia entering the war with Japan is brought up in these discussions.  Plenty of scholars, from all sides, believe it was a key element in our decision for dropping the bombs and insisting on an immediate surrender. Russia rolled over Japanese forces in China and was fully prepared for invading mainland Japan.



It must have been frustrating for Stalin to be forced to put the brakes on after stealing only a little territory. The Russians were still feeling humiliated from their not-so-distant ass kicking.


----------



## The Irish Ram (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



I understand both very well.   Japan gave us no choice.  Japan was the aggressor, not America.  There would be a moral issue on our part had we awakened one morning and decided to declare war on Japan and dropped a bomb on them. 
We had lost enough young men and women  because of the arrogant, aggressive, murdering Japanese. 
Their fault, not ours.  They asked for it and got it.  Their immorality, not ours.  If Japan cared about its own people they wouldn't have needed a second bomb to give up their quest to dominate my country.  How many more Americans would you have liked to see killed?  We voted ~ no more...


----------



## Jimmy_Chitwood (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Jimmy_Chitwood said:
> 
> 
> > ... could dish it but can't take it.
> ...




Rape of Nanking.

Imperialism.

Aggressor on all fronts.


Brutal treatment of prisoners.



And then it came time to answer for those behaviors - thankfully.


----------



## Camp (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> > I find it a bit disturbing how rarely Russia entering the war with Japan is brought up in these discussions.  Plenty of scholars, from all sides, believe it was a key element in our decision for dropping the bombs and insisting on an immediate surrender. Russia rolled over Japanese forces in China and was fully prepared for invading mainland Japan.
> ...


He was very willing to sacrifice millions of Russians for a piece of Japan, and Japanese occupied Korea.


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> No, because history isn't something simple that fits on the back of a cereal box, except for simpletons who are incapable of anything more.


Just hit the highlights of international events involving the US


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Another option might have been pursuing the opportunity for a negotiated surrender long before all this, which would have saved untold numbers of American lives. Of course fdr had no interest in something like that.


The japanese were not going to negotiate a surrender any more than they negotiated a peaceful settlement before they bombed Pearl Harbor


----------



## JLW (Aug 7, 2020)

Anyone like alternative history novels on this topic read the short story  "The Lucky Strike" by Kim Stanley Robinson.


----------



## John T. Ford (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> What the hell are you talking about? Where do you see "leftist" or "revisionist"? Or are you just jumping at your own shadow?


What was your original point ...


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

John T. Ford said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > No
> ...




What the hell are you talking about? Where do you see "leftist" or "revisionist"? Or are you just jumping at your own shadow?


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Another option might have been pursuing the opportunity for a negotiated surrender long before all this, which would have saved untold numbers of American lives. Of course fdr had no interest in something like that.
> ...



Too bad you never had the chance to call General MacArthur a liar to his face.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > No, because history isn't something simple that fits on the back of a cereal box, except for simpletons who are incapable of anything more.
> ...


Take your lazy slacker ass to a real course on US History. After you complete your course on basic logic, of course.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

Jimmy_Chitwood said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Jimmy_Chitwood said:
> ...



Another one who believes we used the atom bomb on behalf of China?


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

The Irish Ram said:


> ... had we awakened one morning and decided to declare war on Japan ...



Is that how you think it happened? Everything was just hunky-dory between Japan and the US and one morning...no one could have imagined...


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

The Irish Ram said:


> ... If Japan cared about its own people they wouldn't have needed a second bomb ....



Or maybe they would have attempted to reach out and find a path to ending the war long before Aug. 6?


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

The Irish Ram said:


> ...  We voted ~ no more...



We did?


----------



## Anathema (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> That tired old story is banal speculation meant to avoid a difficult moral issue.



If it saved even one American life, both bombings were more than worth it.


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Aug 7, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
> 
> 
> > There is no moral issue. Japan started a war and lost. End of story.
> ...


Wars are simple things. One side kills the other until one of them either can’t continue the fight or loses the will to continue.


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



There is no moral issue in question. We did what it took to win a war we didn’t start.

But let’s test your morality. Let’s say the US was able to get the bomb much earlier. And we could drop one on Berlin and one on Tokyo in 1942 ending the war years faster.

Do you do it?


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
> 
> 
> > ... Japan went through China and other countries enslaving, starving and killing everyone they came into contact with ....
> ...



Like I said. Know your enemy.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

Missouri_Mike said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Missouri_Mike said:
> ...


Wars are anything but simple. Simple people try to frame complex things in simple ways.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

Missouri_Mike said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Missouri_Mike said:
> ...


That doesn't answer my question. Got a quote?


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


Be SPECIFIC now and link to ANY proposal of peace from the GOVERNMENT of Japan.


----------



## The Irish Ram (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> > ... If Japan cared about its own people they wouldn't have needed a second bomb ....
> ...


Did Japan wake up one morning to us bombing them?  Because we woke up to them bombing us!  IT TOOK TWO BOMBS before *Japan *"reached out" to end the war.  ONE BOMB wasn't enough to convince them.  What does that tell you?
Reach out?  You need to distinguish between war and a therapy session...


----------



## Jimmy_Chitwood (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Jimmy_Chitwood said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



Where did I say that?


It worked.  Unconditional surrender bay-bee!!


----------



## gulfman (Aug 7, 2020)

Piss on Japan.If Tojo had the bomb first he would have used it.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 7, 2020)

Missouri_Mike said:


> There is no moral issue in question


For you. Good for you.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 7, 2020)

gulfman said:


> Piss on Japan.If Tojo had the bomb first he would have used it.


Okay, but we didn't bomb Tojo.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 7, 2020)

The Irish Ram said:


> IT TOOK TWO BOMBS before *Japan *"reached out" to end the war.


Well that is one of the sticking points. They japanese leadership did not understand the devastation of the first bomb. So they were not making fully informed decisions. Had they had a full understanding, they may well have surrendered after the first bomb. Waiting a week might have allowed this to happen.


----------



## Correll (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Mac-7 said:
> 
> 
> > The atomic bomb saved a million lives, including both American and Japanese
> ...





if you want to criticize a decision, considering what would happen if the decision was not make, is completely valid.


claiming otherwise undermines your credibility.


----------



## Correll (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...





on the other hand, nuanced thinkers can get lost in details and miss the big picture.


we did kill the germans and the japanese, until they could not continue the fight.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

The Irish Ram said:


> ...
> Did Japan wake up one morning to us bombing them?  Because we woke up to them bombing us! ....



Do you really think that's how it happened? We were good buddies and had no idea a conflict was very likely very soon?


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

Jimmy_Chitwood said:


> ... Unconditional surrender bay-bee!!



The Bud Light Breakfast Club publishes another scholarly paper.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 7, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> > IT TOOK TWO BOMBS before *Japan *"reached out" to end the war.
> ...


After the second BOMB they did not surrender either the Emperor over rode the Government and ordered the surrender and then the army staged a Coup to stop that.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 7, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > The Irish Ram said:
> ...


True, but it was only a small portion of the imperial guard and some war ministers. The others  wanted to surrender when they realized the destructive power of the bombs.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 7, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


The Government did NOT surrender again for the slow after 2 bombs and an invasion By the Soviets the Council did not vote to surrender.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 7, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


They surrendered after the two bombs. And russia declaring war.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 7, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


NO the Government voted to not surrender and the Emperor over ruled them.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 7, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


As was his right, constitutionally. And you are again talking about the war ministers. 6 of them. The same 6 who were negotiating peace with russia and no longer controlled attacking forces.

Point being, i think a longer delay for the second bomb would have made it unnecessary.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 7, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


Again after the second BOMB and an invasion they still voted NOT to surrender. And be specific now and link to a source that shows that any of the 4 Army members on the Council ever made an offer of any kind to be considered. Yes some Japanese made offers but NONE of them were from the Government the 6 ran the Government what they said was what was done.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 7, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Again after the second BOMB and an invasion they still voted NOT to surrender.


That was because they weren't ready yet, but were already negotiating surrender via Russia.  4 Army members? Wha? As I understand it, it was the Navy minister who may have been the lone military member on the council to be against not surrendering.

Again, point being, an extra delay may have rendered the second bomb unnecessary.


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Aug 7, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> > IT TOOK TWO BOMBS before *Japan *"reached out" to end the war.
> ...


They obviously had democrats in charge and a democrat media in place then.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 7, 2020)

Missouri_Mike said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > The Irish Ram said:
> ...


Please save your embarrassing fetishism for the 9 billion other pile of shit threads. This is a good discussion thread.


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Aug 7, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


You aren’t adding anything of value so fuck off.


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Aug 7, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...



Holy shit. Maybe you did say something worthwhile.

So dropping the bombs was the absolute reason for a full surrender and ending the war. At least you do know that.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 7, 2020)

Missouri_Mike said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Missouri_Mike said:
> ...



Well that's a gem of an opinion from Mister "There is no moral discussion to be had, so everyone should stfu".

Maybe take your own advice.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

Missouri_Mike said:


> ... dropping the bombs was the absolute reason for a full surrender and ending the war. ....




"Admiral William Leahy, White House chief of staff and chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the war. Leahy wrote in his 1950 memoirs that "the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender." Moreover, Leahy continued, "in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children."  "








						Hiroshima: Military Voices of Dissent | Origins
					

Almost six decades after the fact, the 1945 unleashing of an atomic bomb on Hiroshima continues to be the subject of  impassioned debate. Every year the bombing anniversary — which falls on August 6 — occasions heated exchanges between those who question the atomic bombing and those who...




					origins.osu.edu


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 7, 2020)

Missouri_Mike said:


> So dropping the bombs was the absolute reason for a full surrender and ending the war. At least you do know that.


Hmm, see, that's where it gets murky. Yes, if you point at two endpoints just before and after, that is true. But in the larger context, surrender was coming. And was helped along by many events before the bombs. Remember, these same japanese ministers who did not want to surrender didn't want to surrender YET under the terms demanded.

So while we can definitely credit the bombs for expediency, it is still fair to talk about whether or not we can do better and do better next time. Because as surely as it was bound to happen the first time, it is going to happen again. We will again be confronted with the prospect of a nuclear exchange somewhere in the world.

And we had best be able to convince everyone not to use ANY. If you havent already, go watch a vid or read an article on the global effects of a "small" nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan. It is good to revisit and look for ways to end it both without 1 million Allied casualties and without targeting and killing 100,000 civilians with two bombs.


----------



## beautress (Aug 7, 2020)

Nagasaki and Hiroshima put an end to the war begun the morning of December 7, 1941ad. 

The two bombs effectively stopped predatory warmongers from killing millions in the two participating countries. Laws of mercy. Doing the math should bring comfort to all concerned. Honest.


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
> 
> 
> > ... dropping the bombs was the absolute reason for a full surrender and ending the war. ....
> ...


Leahy was an idiot. Hard to believe any military man could think wars shouldn’t or don’t hurt women and children. No war is won or lost without it. So we killed a bunch of Japanese women and their kids to end a war their country started. And we did that for our own women and their children that were sent to fight it.

How many of our own women needed to sacrifice their children? I don’t give a shit about the Japs. How many of our women needed their lives ruined by losing their sons before you get your head out of your ass.

Women and children always pay the price for wars. My concern is for the US ones. You seem more concerned about the Japs.


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Aug 7, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
> 
> 
> > So dropping the bombs was the absolute reason for a full surrender and ending the war. At least you do know that.
> ...


So what? They were going to surrender eventually. How long? How many more US deaths? It’s a guessing game isn’t it. The one sure chess move we had ended it immediately. That’s how it’s done.

Today the way to avoid a war like you describe is overwhelming firepower and a willingness to use it. That’s what stops world wars.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 7, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Again after the second BOMB and an invasion they still voted NOT to surrender.
> ...


You are wrong and the Japanese were trying to make an alliance with the Soviets AGAINST the US. They were not trying to surrender.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

Missouri_Mike said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Missouri_Mike said:
> ...


" President Dwight Eisenhower, the Allied commander in Europe during World War II, recalled in 1963, as he did on several other occasions, that he had opposed using the atomic bomb on Japan during a July 1945 meeting with Secretary of War Henry Stimson: "I told him I was against it on two counts. First, the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing. Second, I hated to see our country be the first to use such a weapon."  "


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

John T. Ford said:


> ...
> 
> Japan taking away America's Freedom and Liberties and enslaving this Great Nation...



"Enslaving"?

???


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Aug 7, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


Would be nice if these history revisionists would actually give us some credit instead of the enemy.


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Aug 7, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



And I’m supposed to feel bad about that? Luckily we didn’t have to worry about how many US lives would be lost waiting for this inevitable surrender. It did after all take two of those bombs to get it done.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2020)

Missouri_Mike said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Missouri_Mike said:
> ...



So far Leahy and Eisenhower disagree with you. Who are you again?


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Aug 8, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


I’m the one that had family members in the Pacific theater. The ones that lived through Okinawa and places like it. The ones that weren’t sitting way back from the front smoking cigars yammering about morals those two wouldn’t have to pay for if they were wrong.

Turning 100,000 Japs into instant crispy critters doesn’t bother me, or my relatives at all.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2020)

Missouri_Mike said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Missouri_Mike said:
> ...




Anyone who really feels that way is a shit-poor excuse for an American, and for a human being.


----------



## The Irish Ram (Aug 8, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Again after the second BOMB and an invasion they still voted NOT to surrender.
> ...



We bombed the *hell *out of Japan with conventional bombs and they *refused to budge*.   Conventional warfare wasn't effective in procuring a surrender from the Japanese.   Japan needed to negotiate with us, not Russia.

So, how many Americans would have died while you waited for the Japanese to be "ready"?  What would you tell the families of the soldiers  who died while we were hanging out waiting for the Japanese to decide what they wanted to do next?  That isn't how war works.    If your Commander in Chief is capable of ending a war, you end it....
And lest you forget, once Japan was *forced *to surrender, we forgave their aggression against us and brought them here to go through our factories, and businesses to show them how to modernize theirs, and then we helped them rebuild their country.  That is what a moral country does...


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 8, 2020)

Yup the claim that Japan was going to surrender is simply hogwash, the fact is after 2 bombs and an invasion they REFUSED to surrender and when the Emperor over rode them they staged a COUP to stop that. The discussions with the Soviets were an attempt to make a deal to work AGAINST the US not a surrender offer at all.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2020)

The Irish Ram said:


> ....
> And lest you forget, once Japan was *forced *to surrender, we forgave their aggression against us and brought them here to go through our factories, and businesses to show them how to modernize theirs, and then we helped them rebuild their country.  That is what a moral country does...



You are a government's wet dream. You buy any narrative they feed you. We did not rebuild Japan's economy just because we are so nice. We rebuilt their economy to have a lucrative trade partner in an important part of the world, and an ally to block communist interests in NE Asia. Do you think the Marshall Plan was a humanitarian mission?


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2020)

Missouri_Mike said:


> ...
> I’m the one that had family members in the Pacific theater. The ones that lived through Okinawa and places like it. The ones that weren’t sitting way back from the front smoking cigars yammering about morals those two wouldn’t have to pay for if they were wrong.
> ...



Ah. Not like the guys on the front lines, right?


----------



## The Irish Ram (Aug 8, 2020)

We rebuilt Japan's economy.  Pretty nice of us considering they killed many of us...
We had lucrative trade with the world.  We manufactured everything the world wanted and needed.  We didn't need Japan.  Their war turned them into a bombed out shell.  They needed us, not the other way around, and we were there to help them.
You're welcome...


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2020)

"Responding to a journalist's question in 1995 about what he would have done had he been in Truman's shoes, Joseph O'Donnell, a retired marine corps sergeant who served in the Pacific, answered that "we should have went after the military in Japan. They were bad. But to drop a bomb on women and children and the elderly, I draw a line there, and I still hold it." 

Doug Dowd, a Pacific-theater rescue pilot who was slated to take an early part in the invasion of Japan if it had come to that, recently stated that it was clear in the final months of the war that the Japanese "had lost the ability to defend themselves." American planes "met little, and then virtually no resistance," Dowd recalled. He added, "It is well-known [now] that the Japanese were seeking to make a peace agreement well before Hiroshima." 

Or take Ed Everts, a major in the 7th weather squadron of the Army Air Corps. Everts, who received an air medal for surviving a crash at sea during the battle at Iwo Jima, told us that America's use of atomic bombs was "a war crime" for which "our leaders should have been put on trial as were the German and Japanese leaders." "


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2020)

The Irish Ram said:


> ...
> We had lucrative trade with the world.  ...



Maybe you don't understand what the state of the world was at the end of the war.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 8, 2020)

The Irish Ram said:


> So, how many Americans would have died while you waited for the Japanese to be "ready"?


I say zero, give or take zero. Japan had no effective attacking force threatening American positions, at that time. The last battle on Okinawa was an invasion by allied troops.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 8, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Yup the claim that Japan was going to surrender is simply hogwash


Yet they were negotiating surrender via Russia and discussing the post war reality internally, knowing they had lost. . But you are somehow sure that, what, they were faking it?


----------



## Cellblock2429 (Aug 8, 2020)

jwoodie said:


> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> > Atomic bomb dropped on Japan's Hiroshima 75 years ago still reverberates
> ...


/—-/ I tell the people who say it was a mistake to read The Rape of Nanking.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2020)

Cellblock2429 said:


> jwoodie said:
> 
> 
> > DigitalDrifter said:
> ...


Why?


----------



## Cellblock2429 (Aug 8, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> > jwoodie said:
> ...





Unkotare said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> > jwoodie said:
> ...


/——-/ Why??? Seriously, if you read it it you’d understand what the Japanese were capable of doing: 27 Nanking Massacre Photos That Reveal One Of History's Very Worst Atrocities


----------



## Cellblock2429 (Aug 8, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> > jwoodie said:
> ...


/——/ Duhhh, read it and learn what the Japanese were capable of doing.


Tipsycatlover said:


> Propofol said:
> 
> 
> > "
> ...


/——-/ It wasn’t the Japanese people,  it was the Emperor and the military high command who wouldn’t listen. They couldn’t process the deviation of Hiroshima so we used our second  and only other atom bomb on Nagasaki.  Only then did the Emperor get the message.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2020)

Cellblock2429 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Cellblock2429 said:
> ...



I know all about it. What does it  have to do with truman's decision to use the atom bomb?


----------



## harmonica (Aug 8, 2020)

another bomb thread--hahahhahahahahahah
---undeniably necessary--for those who know the history and do not think with their emotions


----------



## Cellblock2429 (Aug 8, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


/——/ The Japanese would have fought to the last person defending Japan, the bombs save millions of lives on both sides.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2020)

Cellblock2429 said:


> ...
> /——-/ It wasn’t the Japanese people,  ....



But it was civilians who were incinerated in the hundreds of thousands.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2020)

harmonica said:


> another bomb thread--hahahhahahahahahah
> undeniably necessary



Typical democrat approach to argument ^^^


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2020)

Cellblock2429 said:


> ... The Japanese would have fought to ghe last person defending Japan, the bombs save millions of lives on both sides.



That is the soothing story you are expected to swallow and then never think about again.


----------



## gipper (Aug 8, 2020)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> And if Japan had not ATTACKED AMERICA, guess what.....they wouldn't have had to go through it at all.
> 
> Pearl Harbor, After Japan attacks America.   Thousands of Americans perish
> 
> ...


Comparing the attack on Pearl Harbor, a military base where 2,000 men died to Hiroshima, is an argument only a fool could make.


----------



## gipper (Aug 8, 2020)

Cellblock2429 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Cellblock2429 said:
> ...


That’s pure propaganda and you are an idiot for believing it. Stop being an idiot and get informed.


----------



## Cellblock2429 (Aug 8, 2020)

gipper said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


/—-/ You call it propaganda, but you can’t prove it: https://exhibits.lib.pacificu.edu/exhibits/show/world-war-ii-propaganda/japanese-homeland


----------



## Cellblock2429 (Aug 8, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> > ... The Japanese would have fought to ghe last person defending Japan, the bombs save millions of lives on both sides.
> ...


/—-/ We have film of Japanese civilians committing suicide rather than surrrender to Allied forces.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2020)

Cellblock2429 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Cellblock2429 said:
> ...



Where?


----------



## Scamp (Aug 8, 2020)

Maybe Japan should not have attacked us. Sow the wind, wreap the whirlwind.


----------



## gipper (Aug 8, 2020)

Cellblock2429 said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Cellblock2429 said:
> ...


I’ve proven it multiple times on this board. Now I’m just tired of dealing with idiots like you, who haven’t progressed in their learning past second grade.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 8, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Yup the claim that Japan was going to surrender is simply hogwash
> ...


Again read the History and FACTS they wanted the Soviets as allies against the US that was their offer , the Soviets broker an end to the war and Japan would ally with the Soviets for the coming Cold War.


----------



## gipper (Aug 8, 2020)

Scamp said:


> Maybe Japan should not have attacked us. Sow the wind, wreap the whirlwind.


Yeah that’s really nice of Americans. Mass murdering innocent defenseless civilians, because their government attacked our military base. Are you stupid?


----------



## gipper (Aug 8, 2020)

Cellblock2429 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Cellblock2429 said:
> ...


So?


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 8, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


LOL NOW you deny that on Saipan and Tinian the Japanese civilians committed suicide rather then be captured by the US, at the order of the Japanese Government? God you are truly pathetic. Did you know on Okinawa the Japanese troops killed their own civilians rather then let them be captured?


----------



## gipper (Aug 8, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Cellblock2429 said:
> ...


So? 

Did you know Truman mass murdered hundreds of thousands of defenseless women and children, merely to impress the Soviets and the world?


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 8, 2020)

gipper said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


Wrong you lying piece of HUMAN Garbage. You wouldn't know history or facts if they chewed off your face. I keep asking for you to LINK to any actual offer from the ACTUAL Government of Japan to the US to surrender. You can not link to one because they never offered one. I keep pointing out that the fact is after 2 atomic BOMBS and an invasion by the Soviets the GOVERNMENT of Japan REFUSED to surrender and when the Emperor over rode them the Army staged a Coup to stop it. I have provided facts that the feelers to the Soviets were in fact an offer to ALLY with the Soviets AGAINST the US if the Soviets CONVINCED the allies to accept a cease fire NOT a surrender. What do you have? Not a single link not a single provable fact.


----------



## gipper (Aug 8, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


The grunt and his limp wrested “I got a link.”  I’ve given you numerous links, but your low IQ prevents you from reading and comprehending.

What Dirty Harry did was very much like what Hitler and Stalin did.

You’re blinded by ignorance and what you think is patriotism, and unable to see the truth.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 8, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


oh, so now you're saying good thing we killed all those Japanese civilians, because that's a better fate than them becoming communist. Okay. I'm sure you're not the only one who thinks that. However I still am not 100% convinced they would not have eventually surrendered anyway


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Aug 8, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


Protecting US lives by ending a war we didn’t start is unAmerican? You need to have the shit knocked out you.

There were 72 million Japs on that island in 1945. Want to know how many I would be willing to kill to save one US soldiers life?
Every.
Fucking.
One of them.


----------



## Scamp (Aug 8, 2020)

gipper said:


> Scamp said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe Japan should not have attacked us. Sow the wind, wreap the whirlwind.
> ...


You never heard of what the Japs did in Nanking? Are you stupid?


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 8, 2020)

gipper said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...


NOT one time have you EVER linked to an offer by the Japanese Government EVER, you liar.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 8, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


Way to misread what I wrote, the POINT is they did NOT ever offer to surrender EVER. And the Soviet ploy was an effort NOT to surrender.


----------



## Scamp (Aug 8, 2020)

Didn't the bombing of Tokyo kill more people? And we didn't even have to nuke them.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 8, 2020)

Scamp said:


> Didn't the bombing of Tokyo kill more people? And we didn't even have to nuke them.


Yes it did this handwringing and whining is a liberal revisionist ploy to make the US Look bad.


----------



## Cellblock2429 (Aug 8, 2020)

Scamp said:


> Didn't the bombing of Tokyo kill more people? And we didn't even have to nuke them.





RetiredGySgt said:


> Scamp said:
> 
> 
> > Didn't the bombing of Tokyo kill more people? And we didn't even have to nuke them.
> ...


/——/ The libtards should read this to better understand the Japanese mindset: Opinion | The Atomic Bomb Saved Millions—Including Japanese | Apk Metropolitan News


----------



## Cellblock2429 (Aug 8, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


/——-/ “Civilians can be mobilized, too. On April 20, 1945, the Japanese Imperial Military issued “The Decree of the Homeland Decisive Battle,” which proclaimed: “Each soldier ought to battle to the final . . . and our individuals ought to battle to the final individual.” Each Japanese soldier and civilian—even ladies and youngsters—was anticipated to die preventing. Opinion | The Atomic Bomb Saved Millions—Including Japanese | Apk Metropolitan News


----------



## Cellblock2429 (Aug 8, 2020)

gipper said:


> Scamp said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe Japan should not have attacked us. Sow the wind, wreap the whirlwind.
> ...


/——/ You know, Truman was a democrat. You do know that, don’t you?


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2020)

Missouri_Mike said:


> ... You need to have the shit knocked out you.
> ...



You don't have enough friends, champ.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2020)

Missouri_Mike said:


> ...
> 
> There were 72 million Jap[anese] on that island in 1945. Want to know how many I would be willing to kill to save one US soldiers life?
> Every.
> ...



Anyone who believes that isn't much of an American, isn't much of a man, isn't much of a human being.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2020)

Cellblock2429 said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Scamp said:
> ...



Of course he was. Only democrats have such complete disregard for human life.


----------



## gipper (Aug 8, 2020)

Cellblock2429 said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Scamp said:
> ...


Lol. I greatly dislike both Rs an Ds. You should too. Surprisingly you like many others despise Ds and love Rs, but somehow find Truman a good honest guy.

If only you could wake up from your conscious stupor.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 8, 2020)

Missouri_Mike said:


> Protecting US lives by ending a war we didn’t start is unAmerican?


That is not what he said. If you have to make stuff up and put words in people's mouths to have a point, then you don't actually have a point.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 8, 2020)

Cellblock2429 said:


> ou know, Truman was a democrat. You do know that, don’t you?


So?  People, PLEASE keep your partisan fetishism out of this thread.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 8, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> the POINT is they did NOT ever offer to surrender EVER.


Yes, I know, we already covered that. I am wondering aloud if, possibly, delaying the second bomb may have rendered it unnecessary.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 8, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Yes it did this handwringing and whining is a liberal revisionist ploy to make the US Look bad.


If you are whining about me, please go back and read my post on exactly why I think this is an important thing to talk about. Instead of making stuff up to soothe yourself.


----------



## gipper (Aug 8, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


Wrong as usual. You traitor.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Aug 8, 2020)

Too bad we could not kill hundreds of thousands of their civilians without having to have a war to do it


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 8, 2020)

Tipsycatlover said:


> Too bad we could not kill hundreds of thousands of their civilians without having to have a war to do it


The biggest pussies always have the biggest mouths.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Aug 8, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> > Too bad we could not kill hundreds of thousands of their civilians without having to have a war to do it
> ...


They are still dead right?  

The day the Rising Sun was crushed under the American boot.   A day of celebration.


----------



## gipper (Aug 8, 2020)

Tipsycatlover said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Tipsycatlover said:
> ...


Mass murdering defenseless women and children is nothing to be proud but somehow some Americans are so sick in the head, they are proud of it.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2020)

Tipsycatlover said:


> Too bad we could not kill hundreds of thousands of their civilians without having to have a war to do it



Don’t ever pretend you care about ANY human life, including Americans.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Aug 8, 2020)

gipper said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


Have you taken up the London Blitz with Germany?

Don't hide behind the rotted skeletons of women and children.  They would have cheerfully put a knife up 'your ass.   Of course I am proud that my country won the war.  If it had gone the other way, no one would be crying because your dick became sushi.


----------



## gipper (Aug 8, 2020)

Tipsycatlover said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Tipsycatlover said:
> ...


Yeah we want to be just like Nazis. Is that what you want?


----------



## HenryBHough (Aug 8, 2020)

There IS a big problem with nuclear weapons.

They are used far too infrequently than need cries out for.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 8, 2020)

HenryBHough said:


> There IS a big problem with nuclear weapons.
> 
> They are used far too infrequently than need cries out for.


Well that's insane and psychotic.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Aug 8, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> > Too bad we could not kill hundreds of thousands of their civilians without having to have a war to do it
> ...


Why would I bother pretending?  You are such a dumbshit.  You make no sense.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Aug 8, 2020)

HenryBHough said:


> There IS a big problem with nuclear weapons.
> 
> They are used far too infrequently than need cries out for.


True.  If we had used one or two in Afghanistan we wouldn't still be there.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 8, 2020)

Tipsycatlover said:


> HenryBHough said:
> 
> 
> > There IS a big problem with nuclear weapons.
> ...


Well, the raging psychos have found the thread.


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Aug 8, 2020)

gipper said:


> BasicHumanUnit said:
> 
> 
> > And if Japan had not ATTACKED AMERICA, guess what.....they wouldn't have had to go through it at all.
> ...



Seems you cannot understand the simplicity of 'Cause and Effect"
The Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor ....even though the US was not AT WAR with Japan.
IN RESPONSE (do you know what "response" means?)  America used it's superior weaponry to stop Japan's aggression.
You fail in that you assume Japan wouldn't have used an atomic bomb against America (had they had it first)

Your arguments are so weak, I can destroy them with half my brain tied behind my back.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 8, 2020)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > BasicHumanUnit said:
> ...


yes, and Japan would also have unleashed a giant dragon on Los Angeles, if they had one.  Neato, but let's keep the discussion grounded in this dimension.


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Aug 8, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> BasicHumanUnit said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...



Did you have ANYTHING to add to the conversation?
(Other than your dim wit and lame sarcasm?)

This has absolutely no bearing on the post or topic.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 8, 2020)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> Did you have ANYTHING to add to the conversation?


Indeed, I have made several points in this thread.. You were too busy being a rabid freak to notice.


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Aug 8, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> > Too bad we could not kill hundreds of thousands of their civilians without having to have a war to do it
> ...



A few of the moderators said this kind of flaming, with absolutely no content would be removed.
Your post would be a great starting point


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 8, 2020)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Tipsycatlover said:
> ...


Then lean on your report button, like you always do whenever anyone treats you the way you treat everyone.


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Aug 8, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> BasicHumanUnit said:
> 
> 
> > Did you have ANYTHING to add to the conversation?
> ...



You've posted NOTHING but Flaming and insults.
Is anyone surprised you consider this stellar content.    For God's sake.
You have GOT to be one miserable, sad individual.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 8, 2020)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> You've posted NOTHING but Flaming and insults.


As anyone can see is false. Please stop whining, thanks in advance.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Aug 8, 2020)

Trying to convince Americans that we should have lost the war is NOT making a point at all.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 8, 2020)

Tipsycatlover said:


> Trying to convince Americans that we should have lost the war is NOT making a point at all.


I didn't do that. Stop being a freak. In fact, i am not convinced we should not have dropped the bombs.


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Aug 8, 2020)

Tipsycatlover said:


> Trying to convince Americans that we should have lost the war is NOT making a point at all.



Agreed.
Worse yet, these America haters act as though America is the perpetrator even though Japan attacked America.
They either are totally ignorant of history, or are just Commie filth


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2020)

Tipsycatlover said:


> HenryBHough said:
> 
> 
> > There IS a big problem with nuclear weapons.
> ...



Easy to be some incorporeal broad mouthing off carelessly about human life on the internet when there are no consequences in the real world as there are in actual wars.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 8, 2020)

gipper said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


Go ahead MORON link to a single request from the Japanese Government to surrender. One will do.


----------



## Cellblock2429 (Aug 8, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> > ou know, Truman was a democrat. You do know that, don’t you?
> ...


/——/ So???? So, for decades democRATs accused Republicans of being nuke happy war mongers, it started with LBJ’s lies about Goldwater in 1964 and again with Reagan.
I like to point out the only president to nuke people was a democRAT and he did it twice.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 8, 2020)

Cellblock2429 said:


> So???? So, for decades democRATs accused Republicans of being nuke happy war mongers, it started with LBJ’s lies about Goldwater in 1964 and again with Reagan.


So what? Gonna cry about it? Not relevant.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2020)

Cellblock2429 said:


> ...
> I like to point out the only president to nuke people was a democRAT and he did it twice.



And the only presidents to throw innocent Americans into concentration camps were democrats. And the only president to violate President Washington's example of restraint in seeking to hold onto power too long was a democrat.


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Aug 8, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
> 
> 
> > ... You need to have the shit knocked out you.
> ...


LMAO, take a seat Rainbow Bright.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2020)

Missouri_Mike said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Missouri_Mike said:
> ...



Don’t kid yourself, princess. Just don’t.


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Aug 8, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



I protect my own from fights they didn’t start. Family and country.

There’s nothing more human, manly or patriotic than that.

If you want to cry over the results the instigator brought on themselves have at. I don’t give a shit about them or your fucking feelings.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 9, 2020)

Missouri_Mike said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Missouri_Mike said:
> ...



Be any kind of douche bag you want to be. Just don't pretend to be an American - or any kind of man for that matter.


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Aug 9, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


So now those that dropped the nukes on Japan aren’t American or manly? What the fuck is wrong with you?


----------



## Markle (Aug 9, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Well that is one of the sticking points. They japanese leadership did not understand the devastation of the first bomb. So they were not making fully informed decisions. Had they had a full understanding, they may well have surrendered after the first bomb. Waiting a week *might* have allowed this to happen.


----------



## Markle (Aug 9, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> NO the Government voted to not surrender and the Emperor over ruled them.



After the first bomb, their ministers voted to continue the war.

After the second bomb, their ministers were split, half to surrender, half to continue.  The Emperor broke the tie.


----------



## Markle (Aug 9, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
> 
> 
> > ... dropping the bombs was the absolute reason for a full surrender and ending the war. ....
> ...


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 9, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Too bad you never had the chance to call General MacArthur a liar to his face.


Why would anyone, least of all me, want to call MacArthur a liar?

you are really getting desperate


----------



## Markle (Aug 9, 2020)

I'm a bottom-line sort of guy.

The bottom-line is that the two bombs saved millions of lives.

The war DID end just a few days after the bombs.

Since we demonstrated the bomb, and have worked as the policeman of the world, we have not had a World War, or anything close in over seventy years.

How many conflicts, around the world (Cuban Missile Crisis), were defused because everyone knew the destructive forces of the bomb and that, push come to shove, we would use it to achieve peace.


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 9, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> What the hell are you talking about? Where do you see "leftist" or "revisionist"? Or are you just jumping at your own shadow?


I think you are both leftist and revisionist

which is why you refuse to summarize  American history from 1945 to 1955


----------



## Markle (Aug 9, 2020)

Cellblock2429 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Cellblock2429 said:
> ...



By the hundreds of thousands.


----------



## Markle (Aug 9, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> oh, so now you're saying good thing we killed all those Japanese civilians, because that's a better fate than them becoming communist. Okay. I'm sure you're not the only one who thinks that. *However I still am not 100% convinced they would not have eventually surrendered anyway*



However, I am 100% convinced that they DID end the war and it was unconditional surrender.


----------



## Markle (Aug 9, 2020)

gipper said:


> Mass murdering defenseless women and children is nothing to be proud but somehow some Americans are so sick in the head, they are proud of it.



Please show us the list of wars were no women or children were killed.


----------



## gipper (Aug 9, 2020)

Markle said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Mass murdering defenseless women and children is nothing to be proud but somehow some Americans are so sick in the head, they are proud of it.
> ...


That’s your justification for Truman’s war crime.  LOL. 

DUMB!


----------



## Markle (Aug 9, 2020)

gipper said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 9, 2020)

Markle said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Well that is one of the sticking points. They japanese leadership did not understand the devastation of the first bomb. So they were not making fully informed decisions. Had they had a full understanding, they may well have surrendered after the first bomb. Waiting a week *might* have allowed this to happen.


Yes, that is why we are here. If i wanted a recount of history, i surely wouldn't be looking to you for it.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 9, 2020)

Missouri_Mike said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Missouri_Mike said:
> ...



Not talking about them, as you damn well know. I'm talking about you.

Callous disregard for human life isn't American. Reveling in death and destruction isn't being a man. It's being a mentally ill little boy acting out like some mindless animal. You debase yourself and pretend to be proud of it. That makes you a disgrace and beneath contempt.


----------



## miketx (Aug 9, 2020)

Japs shoulda stood down, it was up to them. Screw them. Too bad we didn't take over the world next.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 9, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Too bad you never had the chance to call General MacArthur a liar to his face.
> ...



MacArthur informed fdr that he had received word of overtures to surrender from Japan. You are calling MacArthur a liar.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 9, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > What the hell are you talking about? Where do you see "leftist" or "revisionist"? Or are you just jumping at your own shadow?
> ...



But like all claims you make here, you cannot support that one.


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 9, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> MacArthur informed fdr that he had received word of overtures to surrender from Japan. You are calling MacArthur a liar.


I am not familiar with that story

but great as he was MacArthur was only one of many high ranking American officers in the Pacific and not the obvious choice to negotiate with

the japanese wanted a peace treaty not a surrender


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 9, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> But like all claims you make here, you cannot support that one.


I can support the fact that you refuse to summarize US history immediately after WWII

and I can guess why


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 9, 2020)

War is hell....


----------



## miketx (Aug 9, 2020)

Here are some facts for all you crying sissies...


This month marks the 75th anniversary of the dropping of two atomic bombs on Japan, at Hiroshima on Aug. 6, and Nagasaki on Aug. 9.

Each year, Americans argue about our supposed moral shortcomings for being the only nation to have used an atomic weapon in war.

Given the current cultural revolution that topples statues, renames institutions, cancels out the supposedly politically incorrect and wages war on America’s past, we will hear numerous attacks on the decision of Democratic President Harry Truman to use the two terrible weapons.

But what were the alternatives that Truman faced had he not dropped the bombs that precipitated Japan’s agreement to surrender less than a week after the bombing of Nagasaki and formally on Sept. 2?

One, Truman could have allowed Japan’s wounded military government to stop the killing and stay in power. But the Japanese had already killed more than 10 million Chinese civilians since 1931, and perhaps another 4 million to 5 million Pacific Islanders, Southeast Asians and members of the Allied Forces since 1940.

A mere armistice rather than unconditional surrender would have meant the Pacific War had been fought in vain. Japan’s fascist government likely would have regrouped in a few years to try it again on more favorable terms.

Two, Truman could have postponed the use of the new bombs and invaded Japan over the ensuing year. The planned assault was scheduled to begin on the island of Kyushu in November 1945, and in early 1946 would have expanded to the main island of Honshu. Yet Japan had millions of soldiers at home with fortifications, planes and artillery, waiting for the assault.

Dare you cowards read the rest...









						Our Annual August Debate Over the Bombs
					

A terrible choice among even worse alternatives.



					patriotpost.us


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 9, 2020)

Had the Japanese had the atomic bomb they would have used it also.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 9, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > MacArthur informed fdr that he had received word of overtures to surrender from Japan. You are calling MacArthur a liar.
> ...





			archive.ph


----------



## the other mike (Aug 9, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> The atomic bomb saved a million lives, including both American and Japanese


No it didn't .
That's an excuse used by you pro-nukers.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 9, 2020)

Moonglow said:


> Had the Japanese had the atomic bomb they would have used it also.


We could use this type of argument to argue that we should have gassed german civilians en masse. With the difference being germans actually did this, making the argument even stronger. Does that seem like a good moral argument to you?


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 9, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > Had the Japanese had the atomic bomb they would have used it also.
> ...


It could be as good as any.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 9, 2020)

Moonglow said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...


As good as any argument for gassing civilians en masse? What a courageous position...


----------



## gipper (Aug 9, 2020)

Moonglow said:


> Had the Japanese had the atomic bomb they would have used it also.


Illogical.

Because they were a murderous regime, we should be too?  I think not.

Americans like to think their government is better but sadly it isn’t, because too many of it’s people are easily duped by the corporate establishment.


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 9, 2020)

gipper said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > Had the Japanese had the atomic bomb they would have used it also.
> ...


We proved we could be just as murderous as the Japanese but for different reasons.


----------



## gipper (Aug 9, 2020)

Moonglow said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...


No. Same reasons. Imperialism.


----------



## gipper (Aug 9, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


Yeah it’s a terribly dumb argument, but many Americans use it to justify the heinous acts of their government.


----------



## Mushroom (Aug 9, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> MacArthur informed fdr that he had received word of overtures to surrender from Japan. You are calling MacArthur a liar.



Yes, actually I am.

Individuals who are never named, now any kind of authority given anywhere inside the Japanese government to make any such offer.

Of course, Mac also claimed that the Korean War would be over by Christmas, that the Philippines would never fall, and that China would never dare interfere in Korea.

But I will give him the benefit of the doubt.  As soon as those who made these overtures are named, and what gave them the authority to make such offers.  Because nowhere in any Japanese records are recorded any such cases of that kind of authority being given to anybody other than their failed attempts at an armistice.


----------



## gipper (Aug 9, 2020)

Mushroom said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > MacArthur informed fdr that he had received word of overtures to surrender from Japan. You are calling MacArthur a liar.
> ...


Of course the Japanese made several attempts at surrender, but FDR and Truman demanded unconditional surrender terms. So, they chose to ignore them. This prolonged the war and caused hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths. For this the two doofuses should be roundly condemned, but they aren’t.

At any rate, it doesn’t really matter as it relates to the a-bombings. By early August 1945, Japan was done. Their nation was in ruins and their people starving. The had no navy or air force left. Their troops still in the field, had no ability of offensive action. The US had total control of the air and seas surrounding Japan.

Why would Truman incinerate all those defenseless women and children at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, when all he had to do was accept their surrender?  I know the answer. Do you?


----------



## HenryBHough (Aug 9, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> HenryBHough said:
> 
> 
> > There IS a big problem with nuclear weapons.
> ...




So we agree!  That nukes haven't been used more often to settle petty disputes indeed IS insane and psychotic!  Question is where it should have started:  Korea?  Iraq? Iran? Afghanistan?  Of course there would have been opportunities galore had nukes been invented a little sooner.  Imagine, for example, how quickly World War I would have ended!


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 9, 2020)

HenryBHough said:


> So we agree! That nukes haven't been used more often to settle petty disputes indeed IS insane and psychotic!


Clearly I did not say or imply that, you nauseating little weasel.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 9, 2020)

gipper said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


And yet you can not answer the question can not link to any such offer can not name what Member of the Big 6 made any such offer.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 9, 2020)

Mushroom said:


> ... those who made these overtures are named, and what gave them the authority to make such offers. ...



Like Prince Konoye? How about Naotake Sato?


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 9, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> > ... those who made these overtures are named, and what gave them the authority to make such offers. ...
> ...


Neither of whom had any say in the Government AT ALL. Be specific now and link to what those two offered, be specific and show the actual offer, then explain how they had anything to do with the Government.


----------



## theHawk (Aug 10, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> 75 years since a dark day in human history. Each year there are many ceremonies and visiting dignitaries who gather at the site to memorialize those who died that day, and to resolve to prevent any such actions by anyone in the future. This year, due to the Corona virus, only those remaining survivors and a few government officials were in attendance.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What was “dark” about it?  It brought an end to the war the Japanese started.  They were even warned to surrender but were too fucking stupid to accept the reality they were losing the war.   That’s why it took two nukes.  

More people died in the Tokyo firebombings than the two nukes.


----------



## theHawk (Aug 10, 2020)

Alexandre Fedorovski said:


> WARNING This post contains graphic images that may be disturbing to viewers. Viewer discretion is advised
> 
> 
> Sixteen hours after the bombing, the White House released a statement by *President Harry S. Truman*, who was en route from the *Potsdam Conference* aboard the U.S.S. _Augusta_.  "It is an atomic bomb," Truman announced, "_harnessing . . . the basic power of the universe.  The force from which the sun draws its power has been loosed against those who brought war to the Far East_."
> ...


That’s nothing compared to all the raping and murdering they did in China and Korea.


----------



## theHawk (Aug 10, 2020)

gipper said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


Bullshit.  They did not offer a surrender.  At first they didn’t even care about it being a nuclear weapon, it still did the same damage as regular firebomb raids.  Tokyo had 200,000 people die by conventional bombs.

Hiroshima was the manufacturing center for the Japanese Empire.  Their entire city economy was built to service the war machine Japan had become.  Nagasaki their Imperial Navy headquarters.  Those “defenseless” women were working in factories helping to build the machines to kill Americans.  Their children to be raised to kill Americans.  It was war, women and children were killed in every nation involved.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 10, 2020)

theHawk said:


> ...
> What was “dark” about it? ....




Hundreds of thousands of mostly women, children, and the elderly were incinerated in atomic fire. To a normal, moral human being that is a dark day.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 10, 2020)

theHawk said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Mushroom said:
> ...





			archive.ph


----------



## gipper (Aug 10, 2020)

theHawk said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Mushroom said:
> ...


Lol. You have been duped by the lying establishment. They offered to surrender several times.

You really think US bombers would have ignored Hiroshima and Nagasaki all the way up to August, if they were as you say? If so, you’re really dumb.

The rest of your post is absurd.  Weren’t women working in factories in the US and our children taught to hate?  Oh please try to think rather than accept the corporate media and state bull shit.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 10, 2020)

theHawk said:


> ...
> 
> Hiroshima was the manufacturing center for the Japanese Empire. ....



Manufacturing capacity and the resources to support it were long since decimated by the time of the atomic bombings. Hundreds of thousands of civilians were targeted and killed, and only about 150 soldiers. Oh, and at least a dozen American POWs.


----------



## Oz and the Orchestra (Aug 10, 2020)

theHawk said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > 75 years since a dark day in human history. Each year there are many ceremonies and visiting dignitaries who gather at the site to memorialize those who died that day, and to resolve to prevent any such actions by anyone in the future. This year, due to the Corona virus, only those remaining survivors and a few government officials were in attendance.
> ...


Actually it was the fact that the USSR had declared war on Japan. Routing the Japs in Manchuria and where on the coast ready to invade. Japan knew its only alternative to the removal of the Emperor and a future under communism was to surrender to the Americans. That is all academic now though.

Should America have dropped atomic bombs on civilian targets in Japan? - No!
Should the Nazi's have bombed London?
The British retaliated and bombed Dresden, Cologne, Hamburg?
The Nazi's gassed and murdered 6 million Jews?
The answer of course is no.
All these events happen with a domino effect, when extreme right wing nationalist governments take power, and ignoring international political protocols, decide to wage war on their perceived enemies. The answer to stopping such events in future is to ensure right wing nationalists never come to power.


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 10, 2020)

Angelo said:


> No it didn't .
> That's an excuse used by you pro-nukers.


Its a fact

the invasion of japan would have killed as many japanese as the bomb did

and hundreds of thousands more Americans would have died


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 10, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Mac-7 said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


Right up till the bitter end the japanese military leaders did not understand that total surrender means just that

there could be no peace feelers leading to a negotiated settlement

the US was going to occupy japan no matter what


----------



## theHawk (Aug 10, 2020)

gipper said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...


I don’t accept corporate and state bullshit that twist the facts, you do.  I’ve read plenty of books on the subject.


----------



## the other mike (Aug 10, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> > No it didn't .
> ...


We had already bombed the shit out of them with conventional weapons.
There was no reason to invade.


----------



## gipper (Aug 10, 2020)

Angelo said:


> Mac-7 said:
> 
> 
> > Angelo said:
> ...


Imperialists will never understand.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 10, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> ...
> Right up till the bitter end the japanese military leaders did not understand that total surrender means just that
> 
> there could be no peace feelers leading to a negotiated settlement
> ...



You are uninformed on the topic, and you are unwilling to question the comfortable narrative you have been fed since the last time you ever studied history, which was likely middle school.


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 10, 2020)

Angelo said:


> We had already bombed the shit out of them with conventional weapons.
> There was no reason to invade.


They were not realy to accept unconditional surrender till after we used atomic bombs


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 10, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Mac-7 said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


Jus5 your accusing me of being uninformed does not make it so

you have been fed a bunch of bullshit by the lying lib revisionist historians


----------



## the other mike (Aug 10, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> They were not realy to accept unconditional surrender till after we used atomic bombs


All my life hearing this same mantra. I guess you really believe it.


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 10, 2020)

Angelo said:


> All my life hearing this same mantra. I guess you really believe it.


And then one day a little birdie told you the truth huh?

Or was it a marxist revisionist historian?


----------



## the other mike (Aug 10, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> And then one day a little birdie told you the truth huh?
> 
> Or was it a marxist revisionist historian?


Maybe you should further your education a little before saying any more. Operation Mockingbird, Operation Paperclip.....








						The War Was Won Before Hiroshima—And the Generals Who Dropped the Bomb Knew It
					

Seventy years after the bombing, will Americans face the brutal truth?




					www.thenation.com


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 10, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Mac-7 said:
> ...



Your uninformed comments demonstrate that it is so.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 10, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> > All my life hearing this same mantra. I guess you really believe it.
> ...



How about studying primary sources from the time period in question? You know, actually studying history instead of clinging to a comfortable story from your childhood like a security blanket for your conscience?


----------



## Mushroom (Aug 10, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Like Prince Konoye? How about Naotake Sato?



Ahhh, Prince Konoye.  The one who was opposed to the war, and over this removed from power.  Who was refused permission to speak to the Emperor for over 3 years, until finally in February 1945.  Where he insisted that the Emperor end the war as quickly as possible.  At which time he was angrily refused, and banished from the court.

Him?  Along with Yamamoto he was one of the few that understood they had no chance if they fought the US.  And his opposition saw him banished from court and having no power at all.  However, he also refused to work with the Occupation forces, and then killed himself when he was threatened with being charged with war crimes unless he assisted.

No, he never made an offer of a surrender prior to the dropping of the bombs.  But I would love to see evidence that gave him the authority to do so, and when and how he tried to do it.

And Naotake Sato?  He was the one that was trying to negotiate the Soviets assist in an armistice.  And no, an armistice is not a surrender, and Stalin knew that such proposals would have been rejected so he never even bothered to send them to the Allies.  He even forwarded his own belief that he did not believe the Soviets would ever help them, and that they should try to end the war as quickly as possible.

The week before the first bomb.  He is the one that was called into the Kremlin by Foreign Minister Molotov and presented with the Soviet Declaration of War.

OK, once again interesting choice.  What proof do you have that he had that kind of power and authority?  I would love to hear it, not just the name thrown around with nothing else.

Kuri Tajamo!  Who is he?  No idea, just a name I saw in a list of Japanese soldiers killed in Manchuria.  But who knows, maybe he could have ended the war!

No, the only 7 who could have done that were all in Tokyo.  They and nobody else had that power.  No more than General Lee had the power to end the Civil War.  Which contrary to popular belief, he did not.  He simply surrendered his army, and because his was the last force between the Union and Richmond.  And knowing it was now defenseless the Confederate government collapsed.


----------



## Mushroom (Aug 10, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> How about studying primary sources from the time period in question? You know, actually studying history instead of clinging to a comfortable story from your childhood like a security blanket for your conscience?



Fine.  Show us a "Primary source" where a representative from Japan was given the authority to present to the Allied Powers terms that followed the Potsdam Declaration, or have otherwise been acceptable.

And no, not that silly Armistice call that they had been trying to shop around since 1943.  The Swiss, Sweden, and Soviets all refused to even forward that nonsense, knowing it would not even be considered.

YOu are the one insisting there were offers, so you present your primary source.  ANd not just an opinion, the actual source.


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 10, 2020)

Angelo said:


> Mac-7 said:
> 
> 
> > And then one day a little birdie told you the truth huh?
> ...



I cant find this quote anywhere outside of The Nation artcle:

Even the famous hawk Maj. Gen. Curtis LeMay, the head of the Twenty-First Bomber Command, went public the month after the bombing, telling the press that “the atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war at all.”


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 10, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> How about studying primary sources from the time period in question? You know, actually studying history instead of clinging to a comfortable story from your childhood like a security blanket for your conscience?


I have studied history and in spite of a handful of opinionated generals who allegedly opposed using atomic weapons most knowledgable military planners  believed that an invasion of japan would cause massive American casualities


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 10, 2020)

A lot of "yeah but, yeah but" to defend a preconceived conclusion. Easier, I guess, than learning about the Jushin and all the complex relationships within the government that contributed to the overtures to surrender of which more than a few American military and political leaders were well aware. 

Would these overtures have amounted to an earlier peace if they had been seriously pursued? Maybe, maybe not. We will never know because fdr had no interest in peace. He wanted to kill a very large number of civilians and he didn't care how many more American servicemen died to get to that point. His lapdog truman was only too happy to carry out the dead racist's final bloody wish. Military leaders knew the enemy was all but defeated and that the bombs were not material to Japan's inevitable surrender.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 10, 2020)

Mushroom said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > How about studying primary sources from the time period in question? You know, actually studying history instead of clinging to a comfortable story from your childhood like a security blanket for your conscience?
> ...



There are hundreds and hundreds of pages on this topic on many threads containing many links to many sources. It's time for you to get off your ass and at least look at what has already been posted over and over. Beyond that, there are many sources that I doubt you could read anyway. 

Since it is very likely that you are too lazy to do any of the above, why not focus on what is already in agreement? We know that MacArthur sent fdr a 40-page communique about peace overtures before he left for Yalta, and that fdr summarily dismissed it. Do you think fdr would have ever considered any earlier conclusion to the war?


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 10, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> ...most knowledgable [sic] military planners  believed that an invasion of japan would cause massive American casualities [sic]



Back to this again? Invasion was not the only other option to atomic bombing (for the 10000th time).


----------



## gipper (Aug 10, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


It’s obvious to me the Americans who believe the establishment story and refuse to research the history or accept a different version, can’t be changed. This is hard to understand for logical thinking people.

It’s doubly hard for those of us who know the history of lies and propaganda our government is responsible for.


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 10, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Back to this again? Invasion was not the only other option to atomic bombing (for the 10000th time).


Yeah sure

And I told you the japanese were not serious about accepting total surrender with American occupation


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 10, 2020)

gipper said:


> This is hard to understand for logical thinking people.


Revisionist history was invented by the soviets  during the Cold War

thats why I keep asking Unkotare to give us a brief synopsis of US history from 1945-1955

it will tell us how much marxist bs he has swallowed


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 10, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Back to this again? Invasion was not the only other option to atomic bombing (for the 10000th time).
> ...





			archive.ph


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 10, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> We know that MacArthur sent fdr a 40-page communique about peace overtures before he left for Yalta


Why would the japanese approach a general with no authority instead of the president?

I‘m sure the japanese wanted to talk

but they wanted a truce not total surrender


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 10, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Mac-7 said:
> 
> 
> > Angelo said:
> ...


LOL I inked to primary sources and YOU ignored them, and YOU have NEVER linked to a single actual source just second hand claims made years after the fact by politicians.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 10, 2020)

archive.ph


----------



## Mushroom (Aug 10, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> There are hundreds and hundreds of pages on this topic on many threads containing many links to many sources. It's time for you to get off your ass and at least look at what has already been posted over and over. Beyond that, there are many sources that I doubt you could read anyway.



Actually, what there are is hundreds of postings that actually give no real hard evidence.

"Mac says 5 tried to talk to him about surrendering".  Yea, read that and many others like it a lot.  But you know what is missing?

Who was actually trying to deliver this announcement, and by what authority did they have to make it?

Yea, it's not like the "Big Six" flew down to talk to MacArthur.  And why in the hell would they do that in the first place?  Once again, makes no sense.  Governments do not surrender to military commanders who are not even in their country yet.

This is why I reject all such of the hundreds of nonsensical such claims I have read here and elsewhere.  Because they are only claims, not an actual shred of proof that any such thing happened (no names), or proof that they had such an authority to make such a proposal in the first place (a right that could only have come from the Big Six).

And in all of the records I have ever read, the only thing even close was the 1943 Armistice proposal.  Nothing in 1945 (other than still waiting on the reply through Stalin of their 1944 attempt).


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 10, 2020)

Stop being lazy and read what is already here. There is a copious amount of "real evidence." Go read it.


----------



## Mushroom (Aug 10, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> archive.ph



Already been discussed.  That is the exact same proposal (as I said previously) they shopped to the Swiss, Swedish, and Soviets.  It was in absolutely no way a "surrender".  It was a call for an armistice.  A _status quo ante bellium_.  A return to 1941 battle lines.  With a few changes.

The Philippines would remain demilitarized, all captured Japanese territory returned to Japan, both sides essentially pretend that the war never happened.

That is not a surrender, but it was "peace".  And in no way was that going to be accepted by ANY of the Allied powers.  So even pretending it was a "surrender" is moronic.  It is like your neighbor coming into your house, breaking it up, raping your wife and beating your children.  Then when you pull out a gun, he just goes "Well, I will go home now, let's just pretend this never happened"

The same proposal they sent to the Swiss, and got rejected.  And after the Swedes, they sent it to the Soviets who also rejected it.  Sure they notified the other parties, but never formally "Presented it".  All these nations knew better than to try that.

And even if that had, what would that have meant for the Germans and Italians?  Can anybody even imagine what their responses would have been if the Japanese suddenly pulled out, after they had both declared war against the US?


----------



## Mushroom (Aug 10, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Stop being lazy and read what is already here. There is a copious amount of "real evidence." Go read it.



As I just told (and showed) you, I have.

And like the others, this is also rejected.  An Armistice is not a Surrender.


----------



## Mushroom (Aug 10, 2020)

Look, I can play this game too!



> Prior to the atomic attacks on *Hiroshima* and *Nagasaki*, elements existed within the Japanese government that were trying to find a way to end the war.  In June and July 1945, Japan attempted to enlist the help of the Soviet Union to serve as an intermediary in negotiations.  No direct communication occurred with the United States about peace talks, but American leaders knew of these maneuvers because the United States for a long time had been intercepting and decoding many internal Japanese diplomatic communications.  From these intercepts, the United States learned that some within the Japanese government advocated outright surrender.  A few diplomats overseas cabled home to urge just that.
> 
> *From the replies these diplomats received from Tokyo, the United States learned that anything Japan might agree to would not be a surrender so much as a "negotiated peace" involving numerous conditions.  These conditions probably would require, at a minimum, that the Japanese home islands remain unoccupied by foreign forces and even allow Japan to retain some of its wartime conquests in East Asia. * Many within the Japanese government were extremely reluctant to discuss any concessions, which would mean that a "negotiated peace" to them would only amount to little more than a truce where the Allies agreed to stop attacking Japan.  After twelve years of Japanese military aggression against China and over three and one-half years of war with the United States (begun with the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor), American leaders were reluctant to accept anything less than a complete Japanese surrender.







__





						Manhattan Project: Japan Surrenders, August 10-15, 1945
					





					www.osti.gov


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 10, 2020)

Angelo said:


> Mac-7 said:
> 
> 
> > And then one day a little birdie told you the truth huh?
> ...


you folks are  beating The Nation article to death

I followed up the alleged quote by Curtis lemay and could not confirm it


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 10, 2020)

Mushroom said:


> ... That is the exact same proposal (as I said previously) they shopped to the Swiss, Swedish, and Soviets.  It was in absolutely no way a "surrender".  It was a call for an armistice.  A _status quo ante bellium_.  A return to 1941 battle lines.  With a few changes.
> 
> The Philippines would remain demilitarized, all captured Japanese territory returned to Japan, both sides essentially pretend that the war never happened.
> ...



You haven't even read this one link. There is even a numbered list of the terms offered - which were exactly those we eventually accepted anyway. Stop being so fucking lazy and read what is already here. 



			archive.ph


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 10, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Why would the japanese approach a general with no authority instead of the president?


Because of the divisions within the Japanese government. they weren't just worried about getting their hand smacked or some harsh words.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 10, 2020)

Mushroom said:


> And like the others, this is also rejected. An Armistice is not a Surrender.


Right, is is a step to surrender. So, when discussing whether or not Japan would have surrendered, it's right in the mix.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 10, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> > And like the others, this is also rejected. An Armistice is not a Surrender.
> ...


No it isn't the Japanese Government never had an intent to surrender. EVER. They wanted a ceasefire and return to 41 start lines with NO concessions in China. That is all they ever offered.


----------



## Mushroom (Aug 10, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



Funny, you demand "primary sources", but can not provide your own.  Then scream when others ask them of you.

I could not give a damn if Mac sent him a 5,000 page document, if he did not include specifics to show that anybody was given the authority to make such an offer, then it should have been ignored.  Period.

And pretty much every historian knows that half the time, Mac was full of crap.  He made stuff up all the time, frequently to glorify himself.  He also claimed that the Philippines would never fall, the "Boys will be home by Christmas" in Korea, and that China would never dare get involved in the conflict.

And of course when they did get involved, he wanted to nuke China.  And this is the man you are using as your reference?


----------



## Mushroom (Aug 10, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> > And like the others, this is also rejected. An Armistice is not a Surrender.
> ...



No, it was not.  If you really think that, then you know nothing.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 10, 2020)

Mushroom said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Mushroom said:
> ...




What rank did you hold when you served in the Pacific theater during WWII?


----------



## Mushroom (Aug 10, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> archive.ph



Which your own article even admits was a "Cease Fire".

You keep posting that stupid thing over and over again as if it means something.  That you do not even seem to grasp that they wanted to try and end the war, keeping their stolen territory and without losses I can not understand.

Yea, peace.  With them in command of Burma, China, Singapore, Indochina, and the Philippines.

Which by the way WAS US TERRITORY AND OCCUPIED BY US CITIZENS!

That was not even a good opium fantasy when they made that offer, which is why nobody would forward it for them.


----------



## Mushroom (Aug 10, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> What rank did you hold when you served in the Pacific theater during WWII?



I have been studying this in depth since 1982.  Can you say the same?

You only seem to be able to post the same article, over and over again.  And even though I have tried to point out you are not reading it correctly, you still try to claim it shows you are right.

Go back, read it again.  Try to open your brain this time.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 10, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> No it isn't the Japanese Government never had an intent to surrender. EVER.


It appears that they did. They just wanted to retain their emperor and hopefully negotiate back some of their gains. That wasn't going to be a declaration of victory. that was going to be a surrender. Now, arguing whether or not this is an acceptable end for the US is a worthy discussion.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 10, 2020)

Mushroom said:


> I have been studying this in depth since 1982. Can you say the same?


Sure can! Watch:

"I have been studying this in depth since 1982. "


----------



## Mushroom (Aug 10, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > We know that MacArthur sent fdr a 40-page communique about peace overtures before he left for Yalta
> ...



More than that, *how* would they do it?

Funny, I have read a lot of data about this war.  It is not like somebody high up in the Imperial Government did a Rudolph Hess.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 10, 2020)

Mushroom said:


> No, it was not.


Of course armistice is a step toward surrender, when you have no effective attacking forces left. And if you don't get that, you're a big fat stinky doodie headed fatty.


----------



## Mushroom (Aug 10, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> > I have been studying this in depth since 1982. Can you say the same?
> ...



We already know you can parrot things you have heard without even giving them any kind of thought at all, or even trying to analyze it.

No need for you to do it again.


----------



## Mushroom (Aug 10, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> > No, it was not.
> ...



There was an official ceasefire between North and South Vietnam so both could honor the Tet holiday in 1968.

How well did that go?

And do you really think the US was ever going to agree to a cease fire with them holding the Philippines?  Would the UK with them holding Singapore and Hong Kong?

Yea, to hell with that, who cares about those places, right?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 10, 2020)

Mushroom said:


> We already know you can parrot things you have heard without even giving them any kind of thought at all, or even trying to analyze it.
> 
> No need for you to do it again.


Son, please check your baby side at the door. This is a decent discussion. Adults only.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 10, 2020)

Mushroom said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > archive.ph
> ...



Can you read English?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 10, 2020)

Mushroom said:


> There was an official ceasefire between North and South Vietnam so both could honor the Tet holiday in 1968.


And which side had no effective offensive force whatsoever, while the other side had overwhelming numbers on their doorstep?  You have two choices. Which one?


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 10, 2020)

Mushroom said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > What rank did you hold when you served in the Pacific theater during WWII?
> ...



Yes, and with a much greater depth of understanding than you are capable of, it seems.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 10, 2020)

archive.ph


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 11, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> > No, it was not.
> ...


A mere ceasefire was not acceptable to the Allies

it had to be total surrender


----------



## Mushroom (Aug 11, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> You haven't even read this one link. There is even a numbered list of the terms offered - which were exactly those we eventually accepted anyway. Stop being so fucking lazy and read what is already here.
> 
> 
> 
> archive.ph



Actually, I did read it.  The article combines several of the same "offers" we see here, posted over and over again.  And it even seems to try and combine the offer made through the Swedes as well as that Mac talked about.

I did not read it, yet even I caught that it went from the Swedish proposal right into Mac's.  And once again, gave not a single bit of information why the "Mac Proposal" was even real in the first place!

This is why I am laughing right now.  I caught this little fact days ago, meanwhile you seem to have not caught it at all.  Yet I am the one that did not read it?

Yea, in fact I just read it again.  It still goes from the offer made to the Swedes, straight into the one that Mac claims to have gotten.  And tell me, why in the hell would they make one offer through the Swedes, then another radically somehow directly to Mac?

And even more telling, we also know of the final attempts through the Soviets in July 1945.  Why in the hell does the "Mac Plan" of 1944 give away much more than the offer made a few weeks before the bombs were used?  It makes absolutely no sense at all.  Unless you realize that proposal was all bullshit.

Well, rather obvious.  Mac as he did half the time way making crap up as he went along, to make himself look good.

Now I suggest you actually read your own damned reference,


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 11, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Can you read English?


The japanese “peace bids” did not involve unconditional surrender

they were delusional to think they could stay in power after the war and avoid occupation


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 11, 2020)

archive.ph


----------



## Mushroom (Aug 11, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> The japanese “peace bids” did not involve unconditional surrender
> 
> they were delusional to think they could stay in power after the war and avoid occupation



They were still trying to act as if they won the war.  Even the Soviet Ambassador to Japan thought they were insane.

And I am still waiting to find out why in July 1945 the Japanese did not simply ask the Soviets to forward the "proposal" they apparently gave MacArthur the year before.  But no, they gave them the same old one they had been trying to use for years. 

This is why I reject Mac's proposal.  There is absolutely no evidence it was real, but we do know that the proposals they wanted to send through the Swiss, Swedes, and Soviets were real.  It and the terms are confirmed through various sources.

But none that believe the Mac Plan can explain why that was not sent through the Soviets instead of a rehash of the 1943 proposal.


----------



## Mushroom (Aug 11, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> archive.ph



When are you going to explain how the Mac plan comes nowhere even close to that made through the Swiss and Soviets?  When are you going to explain how these "experts" describe how a 1944 proposal is nothing even close to one presented in 1945?


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 11, 2020)

Mushroom said:


> Mac-7 said:
> 
> 
> > The japanese “peace bids” did not involve unconditional surrender
> ...


This is what liberal revisionist history looks like

its always anti American and pro soviet


----------



## Mushroom (Aug 11, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> This is what liberal revisionist history looks like
> 
> its always anti American and pro soviet



Hell, I would be happy if they could even explain why Japan would surrender at the terms that apparently Mac had short of an invasion.  Germany sure as hell never did.  Nor did Italy.  Iraq was thoroughly thrashed 2 different times, and never gave up.

What makes Japan so weak?  That they were willing to throw up their hands and surrender, before a single Allied soldier landed on their beaches.  It makes absolutely no sense, yet they refuse to even discuss this illogic of their claims.

Unless of course they are racists, and somehow see the Japanese as "lesser beings", that somehow could not take the abuse that Germany and Italy had.  That is really about all I can figure out, to be honest.


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 11, 2020)

Mushroom said:


> Mac-7 said:
> 
> 
> > This is what liberal revisionist history looks like
> ...


The revisionists for the most part  dont think

they just feel - hate for America and love for our enemies


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 11, 2020)

Mushroom said:


> ...This is why I reject Mac's proposal. ...



So we can take the word of some nobody on the internet, or General MacArthur. Hmmm......


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 11, 2020)

Mushroom said:


> Mac-7 said:
> 
> 
> > This is what liberal revisionist history looks like
> ...



That is not a question of logic. I hope you understand the concept of logic at least somewhat better than your buddy there. It is a question of intention and motivation. If you cannot conceive of a ruler considering options in the best interests of his people when his nation's military had been decimated, cut off from vital natural resources, and facing mass starvation, you are clearly lacking in reason and morality.


----------



## Mushroom (Aug 11, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> So we can take the word of some nobody on the internet, or General MacArthur. Hmmm......



Tell me, why was the MacArthur proposal not forwarded through the Soviet Embassy in July 1945, instead of the one that basically said the Allies would stop attacking if they left Manchuria?

If that was a real proposal, then why did the Japanese not send it to the Swiss?  Or the Swedes?  Or the Soviets?  Who sent it to Mac, when, and how?

This is the difference, I use logic to apply reasoning and common sense to something.  I do not just latch onto it blindly just because I want to believe it.

But fine.  I will roll over onto my back and beg for forgiveness to you and the Almighty Mac.  As soon as it can be shown who talked to him about this, when, and by what authority they had to commit the Japanese government to that agreement.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 11, 2020)

Mushroom said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > So we can take the word of some nobody on the internet, or General MacArthur. Hmmm......
> ...


He doesn't answer those questions cause they prove he is full of crap.


----------



## Mushroom (Aug 11, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> He doesn't answer those questions cause they prove he is full of crap.



Of course not.  He will probably just post the exact same decades old new article.  Not even caring that I already ripped it to shreds over it's silliness, and am basically tired of pointing out it's gigantic flaws and inconsistencies.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 11, 2020)

I guess Leahy was lying too. I guess we should take the word over some nobody on the internet over his.

"The top American military leaders who fought World War II, much to the surprise of many who are not aware of the record, were quite clear that the atomic bomb was unnecessary, that Japan was on the verge of surrender, and—for many—that the destruction of large numbers of civilians was immoral. Most were also conservatives, not liberals. Adm. William Leahy, Truman’s chief of staff, wrote in his 1950 memoir _I Was There _that “the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender.… In being the first to use it, we…adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.” "









						The War Was Won Before Hiroshima—And the Generals Who Dropped the Bomb Knew It
					

Seventy years after the bombing, will Americans face the brutal truth?




					www.thenation.com


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 11, 2020)

I guess General Arnold was lying too. I guess we should take the word of some nobody on the internet over his.

" The commanding general of the US Army Air Forces, Henry “Hap” Arnold, gave a strong indication of his views in a public statement 11 days after Hiroshima was attacked. Asked on August 17 by a _New York Times_ reporter whether the atomic bomb caused Japan to surrender, Arnold said that “the Japanese position was hopeless even before the first atomic bomb fell, because the Japanese had lost control of their own air.” "


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 11, 2020)

I guess Nimitz and Halsey were both lying too. I guess we should take the musings of some nobody on the internet over their words.

" Fleet Adm. Chester Nimitz, the commander in chief of the Pacific Fleet, stated in a public address at the Washington Monument two months after the bombings that “the atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan.” Adm. William “Bull” Halsey Jr., the commander of the US Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946 that “the first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment…. It was a mistake to ever drop it…. [The scientists] had this toy, and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it…” "


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 11, 2020)

You can post opinions all you want but I notice you can not back your claim of a Japanese Government offer to surrender with a link or source.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 11, 2020)

I guess Eisenhower and LeMay were both lying too. I guess we should take the desperate attempt at prejudicial self-affirmation from some nobody on the internet over their words.

" Gen. Dwight Eisenhower stated in his memoirs that when notified by Secretary of War Henry Stimson of the decision to use atomic weapons, he “voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives.” He later publicly declared, “It wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing.” Even the famous hawk Maj. Gen. Curtis LeMay, the head of the Twenty-First Bomber Command, went public the month after the bombing, telling the press that “the atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war at all.” "


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 11, 2020)

" The record is quite clear: From the perspective of *an overwhelming number of key contemporary leaders in the US military*, the dropping of atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was not a matter of military necessity. American intelligence had broken the Japanese codes, knew the Japanese government was trying to negotiate surrender through Moscow, and had long advised that the expected early August Russian declaration of war, along with assurances that Japan’s emperor would be allowed to stay as a figurehead, would bring surrender long before the first step in a November US invasion could begin. "


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 11, 2020)

" History is rarely simple, and confronting it head-on, with critical honesty, is often quite painful. Myths, no matter how oversimplified or blatantly false, are too often far more likely to be embraced than inconvenient and unsettling truths. "


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 11, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> " History is rarely simple, and confronting it head-on, with critical honesty, is often quite painful. Myths, no matter how oversimplified or blatantly false, are too often far more likely to be embraced than inconvenient and unsettling truths. "


And yet the reality is YOU claimed Japan tried to surrender before the Bombs and can not provide a single link to any such attempt by the Japanese Government. And the facts remain that after 2 atomic bombs and an INVASION by the Soviets the Japanese Government REFUSED to surrender and it took the Emperor to order it AND then a Coup was attempted to stop that.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 11, 2020)

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2016-05-27/its-time-to-confront-painful-truths-about-using-the-atomic-bombs-on-japan


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 11, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2016-05-27/its-time-to-confront-painful-truths-about-using-the-atomic-bombs-on-japan


That does not claim the Japanese Government offered ANY surrender.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 11, 2020)

" Telegrams going back and forth between Japanese officials in Tokyo and Moscow made it clear that the Japanese were seeking an honorable way to end what they had started. Retention of the emperor, as MacArthur noted, was the main stumbling block to surrender. Truman was well aware of the situation. He referred to the intercepted July 18 cable as the "telegram from the Jap emperor asking for peace." His close advisors concurred. "


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 11, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> " Telegrams going back and forth between Japanese officials in Tokyo and Moscow made it clear that the Japanese were seeking an honorable way to end what they had started. Retention of the emperor, as MacArthur noted, was the main stumbling block to surrender. Truman was well aware of the situation. He referred to the intercepted July 18 cable as the "telegram from the Jap emperor asking for peace." His close advisors concurred. "


I have LINKED to the Japanese cables ALL Japan offered was a CEASEFIRE, return to 41 start lines no occupation no concession in China and no consequences for their war. Further in 45 all the Japanese offered the Soviets was an alliance against the US in the future if the Soviets got them a ceasefire.


----------



## Mushroom (Aug 11, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> " Telegrams going back and forth between Japanese officials in Tokyo and Moscow made it clear that the Japanese were seeking an honorable way to end what they had started.



We have talked about this ad nauseum.  Honorable to them.  They keep all land captured unless they decided to return it, allies leave all land captured, no demilitarization, no war crime trials.  You yourself even posted over and over again a ling which said they were only willing to consider giving up Manchuria.

By that time, nobody gave a damn what they thought.  But I guess you think that was a fair way to end the war?  Just pretend it never happened?  Even Stalin and his ministers all think they were crazy.  And coming from Stalin, that is saying something.


----------



## Mushroom (Aug 11, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> I have LINKED to the Japanese cables ALL Japan offered was a CEASEFIRE, return to 41 start lines no occupation no concession in China and no consequences for their war. Further in 45 all the Japanese offered the Soviets was an alliance against the US in the future if the Soviets got them a ceasefire.



Oh, they also said they would stop fighting for Manchuko.

Which at least on paper was it's own independent nation, with it's own independent government and military.  I have no idea what Emperor Puyi thought of that, I bet they never even bothered to tell him that.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 11, 2020)

archive.ph
		




Can you read English?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 11, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> A mere ceasefire was not acceptable to the Allies
> 
> it had to be total surrender


Yep.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 11, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Mac-7 said:
> 
> 
> > A mere ceasefire was not acceptable to the Allies
> ...


Either way, fdr was not going to accept anything until he had a chance to use his new toy. When he was ushered to hell before he could, truman obeyed his last bloody wish.


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 12, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Mac-7 said:
> ...


Where do you get such crazy ideas from?

Americans were dying by the thousands in the Pacific and anything to achieve total victory was better than that


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 12, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> . If you cannot conceive of a ruler considering options in the best interests of his people when his nation's military had been decimated, cut off from vital natural resources, and facing mass starvation, you are clearly lacking in reason and morality.


You dont know much about japanese culture during the Imperial Japan era

eventually after two atomic blasts I think hirohito did put the best interests of his people ahead of other considerations

and even then he faced revolt from parts of the military


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 12, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...



From fdr's attitude and decisions.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 12, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> ...
> You dont know much about japanese culture during the Imperial Japan era
> ...



As a matter of fact, I do. You only know what you have gathered from cartoons and stories told to children so they can grow up without a guilty conscience.


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 12, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> From fdr's attitude and decisions.


You mean your anti American bias

FDR would have happily accepted total surrender by japan with US occupation whenever it was offered by the Empire


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 12, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > From fdr's attitude and decisions.
> ...



I have no such bias, so you can shove that offensive accusation right back up your ass where you got it.


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 12, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> As a matter of fact, I do. You only know what you have gathered from cartoons and stories told to children so they can grow up without a guilty conscience.


Nonsense

 Modern japan is very different from pre WWII japan

the japanese once believed they were invincible.

and that death was preferable to surrender

it took two atomic bombs to bring them to their senses


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 12, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> I have no such bias


I think you do whether you know it or admit it


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 12, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > From fdr's attitude and decisions.
> ...



His actions and attitude suggest otherwise.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 12, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > I have no such bias
> ...



You've been informed that you are wrong, so stop lying, you dishonest POS.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 12, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> ...
> 
> the japanese once believed they were invincible.
> ...



There's that comic book anthropology again...  

No, they didn't.


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 12, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> You've been informed that you are wrong, so stop lying, you dishonest POS.


And I informed you that merely denying it does not settle the question


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 12, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> There's that comic book anthropology again...
> 
> No, they didn't.


They did

because they had been invincible dating as far back as the ill fated mongol  invasions 700 years before


----------



## Mushroom (Aug 12, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Modern japan is very different from pre WWII japan



This is why when I discuss Japan, I very clearly separate Early Showa Era from Late Showa Era.  It is almost like discussing 2 different countries.

In fact, since cartoons were mentioned, I invite anybody to look up the two Momotaro cartoons.  "Momotaro and the Sea Eagles" shows a righteous Japanese military striking the US in Hawaii, all in the cause of "liberating" the rest of Asia.  Then "Momotaro, Sacred Sailors" does the same thing, showing how the kind and generous Japanese military is "liberating" islands in the Pacific from the evil Caucasian overlords.

Yea, am pretty sure those were really popular in the Philippines, Dutch East Indies, and China.

This is no "Howl's Castle" or "Spirited Away", but you can see in the style and story where a lot of the concepts of Squirrel and Hedgehog come from.












And yes, the Caucasians all have horns sticking out of their heads.

I actually encourage people to watch them, it is not hard to find now.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 12, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> ....and that death was preferable to surrender
> ...



The US Marine Corp often says "Death Before Dishonor." It is also the motto of the 41st Battalion of the Royal New South Wales Regiment in Australia. Servicemen who die in battle after placing themselves in great peril to save their compatriots or serve their country are honored for valor in all societies.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 12, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > There's that comic book anthropology again...
> ...



That is just stupid. Even despite your ignorance, you should be able to figure out that over Japan's long history of very frequent warfare, many people died and many even surrendered to victorious enemies. Do you think that in 700 years no one ever lost a battle or a war? No one ever surrendered? Don't be stupid. Real life is not a cartoon.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 12, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > You've been informed that you are wrong, so stop lying, you dishonest POS.
> ...



I am the world's foremost authority on what I believe, you dishonest turd.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 12, 2020)

Mushroom said:


> Mac-7 said:
> 
> 
> > Modern japan is very different from pre WWII japan
> ...



And? Are you under some delusion that we did not also produce propaganda during the war? Doctor fucking Seuss produced anti-Asian American propaganda during the war. 

You had better be careful posting images like that or Mac-7 will become utterly convinced that Japanese people in the 1930s and 40s were rabbits; invincible rabbits that had no concept of surrender.


----------



## Mushroom (Aug 12, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> That is just stupid. Even despite your ignorance, you should be able to figure out that over Japan's long history of very frequent warfare, many people died and many even surrendered to victorious enemies. Do you think that in 700 years no one ever lost a battle or a war? No one ever surrendered? Don't be stupid. Real life is not a cartoon.



Of course, the vast majority of that history they were beating up and killing each other.


----------



## Mushroom (Aug 12, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> You had better be careful posting images like that or Mac-7 will become utterly convinced that Japanese people in the 1930s and 40s were rabbits; invincible rabbits that had no concept of surrender.



Not at all.  Actually I recognize it as a powerful tool.

But here you have something different.  The other animals are shown as "simple", most not even knowing how to wear clothes.  And happily work to assist the obviously superior Japanese animals, who even know how to read and write (something none of the other animals know how to do).  They help them build their bases, and freely give them food or anything they need.

And are completely baffled at their marvelous technology, like an airplane.

Knowing how the Japanese actually treated those in areas they conquered, I find it revolting to be honest.   But also that it is an interesting piece of art, as well as a snapshot into the culture of the time.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 12, 2020)

Mushroom said:


> ... The other animals are shown as "simple", most not even knowing how to wear clothes.  And happily work to assist the obviously superior Japanese animals, who even know how to read and write (something none of the other animals know how to do).  They help them build their bases, and freely give them food or anything they need.
> ....



As I informed you before, every country engaged in the use of propaganda.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 12, 2020)

Mushroom said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > That is just stupid. Even despite your ignorance, you should be able to figure out that over Japan's long history of very frequent warfare, many people died and many even surrendered to victorious enemies. Do you think that in 700 years no one ever lost a battle or a war? No one ever surrendered? Don't be stupid. Real life is not a cartoon.
> ...



Like humans everywhere.


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 12, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> The US Marine Corp often says "Death Before Dishonor."


there is no comparison between US Marines who were willing to risk death and japanese banzai suicide charges where they wanted to die for the Emperor


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 12, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > The US Marine Corp often says "Death Before Dishonor."
> ...



Here again you demonstrate a deep and abiding ignorance of  history.


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 12, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Here again you demonstrate a deep and abiding ignorance of history.


Humph


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Aug 21, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> The atomic bomb saved a million lives, including both American and Japanese


Total bs.the japenese made several attempts to 





Death Angel said:


> It was necessary. AND WE'D DO IT AGAIN!


total bs,the japense made several attempts to try and surrender but warmonger Dirty Harry ignored them,he should have been tried at Nuremberg for the senseless murder of millions of women and children,his atrocities against the japenese civilians rival hitlers and stalins.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Aug 21, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > From fdr's attitude and decisions.
> ...


Total bs,he provoked japen into bombing pearl harbour.deliberatly letting it happen.you all just can’t accept facts we have had an evil government on our hands for decades now.


----------



## Mac-7 (Aug 21, 2020)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Total bs,he provoked japen into bombing pearl harbour.deliberatly letting it happen.you all just can’t accept facts we have had an evil government on our hands for decades now.


Thats an old conspiracy theory that some people take seriously

but I’m not one of them


----------



## Markle (Aug 21, 2020)

A couple of hundred posts later and nothing has changed.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Aug 21, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > Total bs,he provoked japen into bombing pearl harbour.deliberatly letting it happen.you all just can’t accept facts we have had an evil government on our hands for decades now.
> ...


Nope conspiracy FACT,people like you just don’t want to believe it because you don’t want to believe how evil our government really is,that they are not the good guys that we were taught to believe in our corrupt school system.mike Griffith and Gipper both took all the revionists apologists to school checkmating them on this too many times to remember over on mike griffths thread the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima,they listed several documented sources there that are irrefutable facts.its all listed there in their multiple posts.

,I am not going to engage any of the revisionists apologists on here and try and change their minds when all the facts are layer out on his thread right there for everybody to go view and read if they choose,they have two choices,either remain ignorant and keep going by what our corrupt school system taught us,or be willing to be objective and willing to unlearn what they have all learned and get educated and go read mike griffith and Gipper posts on that thread,it’s my experience that net posters such as yourself ,know they can hide behind the computer and are too arrogant to admit it when they have been proven wrong and won’t go to that thread and look at their posts too afraid to go down thatt rabbit hole,too afraid to Face reality they were brainwashed with lies from their corrupt school system so people on the net I don’t even try to convince anymore,just people I know in REAL life do I bother with.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Aug 21, 2020)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> And if Japan had not ATTACKED AMERICA, guess what.....they wouldn't have had to go through it at all.
> 
> Pearl Harbor, After Japan attacks America.   Thousands of Americans perish
> 
> ...


Mike Griffith took everybody to school on his thread that america provoked japen to attack them cutting off their oil supply’s.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Aug 21, 2020)

Alexandre Fedorovski said:


> John T. Ford said:
> 
> 
> > Alexandre Fedorovski said:
> ...


Apparently they are not aware alexandre.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 21, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Here again you demonstrate a deep and abiding ignorance of history.
> ...


Your ignorance is your own fault.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Aug 21, 2020)

andaronjim said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Theowl32 said:
> ...


So a wrong makes another wrong right,murdering millions of japenses women,children and elderly by bombing civilians instead of military targets.  Just because a wrong was committed by one country does not give Truman the right to commit another wrong,lies from you as always I see saying he did the japs a favor,had he wanted to save lives he could have done so by not dropping the bomb when they tried to surrender instead of being the evil murdering bastard he was dropping the bomb on innocent women and children,Jesus christ.


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Aug 21, 2020)

WillowTree said:


> anybody ever read a book called The Bataan Death March? The Japanese were a brutal Force to be recokened with.  They were offered a chance to end the war and refused so as you know it took a second bomb to get their submission and you better believe if Japan had those bombs they would have happily dropped them on us!



Of course they would have.  Germany was very close but for a raid that destroyed their heavy water supply they might have beat the US.

It's a testament to the failures of freedom and the Bill of Rights that some people here want desperately to blame the US for Hiroshima and Nagasaki
when clearly the US was not even IN the war until after pearl harbor.
So, they idiotically blame the US when it wasn't even in the war until after the Pearl Harbor attack.

Many here claiming to be history "experts" have an extraordinarily biased view of it.
Diversity has brought with it a great number of people who enjoy the freedoms of our Constitution, yet despise it or want to destroy it.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Aug 21, 2020)

Missouri_Mike said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Mac-7 said:
> ...


Wrong,America the beautiful started the war with japen.stop listening to what our corrupt history classes in our corrupt school system taught us.


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Aug 21, 2020)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Wrong,America the beautiful started the war with japen.stop listening to what our corrupt history classes in our corrupt school system taught us.



What an imbecile you are.
With every post you cement your claim to ignorance.
America WAS NOT EVEN IN WW2 UNTIL AFTER THE PEARL HARBOR ATTACK

"It is better to remain quiet and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth, and remove all doubt"

Too late.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Aug 21, 2020)

The Irish Ram said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > The Irish Ram said:
> ...


Not true, The Irish Ram.

that’s only if you go by what our corrupt school system teaches
In our corrupt history classes,the truth is America the so called beautifull,was the aggressor and murderer,they provoked japen into attacking pearl harbour and Dirty Harry Truman,the mass murderer of japenses women and children,dropped the bomb on them when they made several attempts to surrender that Truman ignored,mike Griffith took everybody to school on thst over on his thread with the help of gipper.


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Aug 21, 2020)

LA RAM FAN said:


> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



You've been fed a Golden Pot of Raw Horse shit....and you vigorously lapped up every drop
This is what happens when ignorant people are eager to believe propaganda and history books are written especially for them.
You are being fed propaganda and you apparently love the taste of it.

Mike Griffith is an imbecile just like you.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Aug 21, 2020)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong,America the beautiful started the war with japen.stop listening to what our corrupt history classes in our corrupt school system taught us.
> ...


Uh you are obviously unaware of what I said earlier that that bastard FDR provoked japen into bombing peal harbour by cutting off their oil supply’s,FDR got what he wanted by provoking them so he could enter the war so he could sell to the american people a good reason to enter the war.again,unlearn what you have learned from our corrupt school system and go read all the posts of mike Griffith on his thread and stop going by what you ThINK you know.lol


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Aug 21, 2020)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > The Irish Ram said:
> ...


Bs and your full of crap,unlike you,he and myself are open minded and not afraid to look at the facts,you are the imbecile the fact your not open minded to unlearn what you have learned and believe eveything our corrupt school system taught you.comedy gold,


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Aug 21, 2020)

LA RAM FAN said:


> BasicHumanUnit said:
> 
> 
> > LA RAM FAN said:
> ...



So loud and SO WRONG.

Germany and japan were the military powers at the start of WW2.   NOT the USA
What profound ignorance.  America had a policy of Isolationism.  
You fools have absolutely no clue what you're talking about but you don't care as long as......

"America sucks"
"Orange man Bad"

I'm debating with pure imbeciles who have nothing but hatred and ignorance in their arsenals


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Aug 21, 2020)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > BasicHumanUnit said:
> ...


You need to look in the mirror when calling someone an imbecile the fact that only imbeciles are closed minded,too arrogant to admit when they are wrong,and non objective,you have not looked at documented sources as mike Griffith did when he took everyone to school nor have read several hundreds of books on it as he did,you get so angry over the truth you engage in name calling frustrated over hearing the truth you don’t want to hear and do the exact same thing they all did to mike on his thread calling me an American hater and crap like that just for exposing facts about a hero of yours that was a freaking mass murderer of women and children,boy the truth sure hurts. 

 Just because you won’t look at the evidence does not support your warped view I don’t know what I’m talking about,that’s you making these absurd claims that I hate America and crap like that,I like an America where the government follows the constitution,we have not had one of those since 1913 Einstein and boy your really babbling now,Germany and japen being allies had NOTHING to do with America cutting off oil supply’s to japen Einstein,yeah that would be best,quit while you can before you embarrass yourself further.lol

 I have several high ranking people in the military as sources I can list that opposed Truman in nuking them thst are on record stating so which always goes ignored everytime I list them by you revisionists apologists who have only our corrupt textbooks from our corrupt school system to use as your source.lol


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 21, 2020)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


So using your logic, the US should have kept supplying Japan as it butchered millions of Chinese, right? We were not the warmongering fools killing millions of Chinese, all we did is say our products would no longer be used to further THAT war. Which by the way..... is the right of any one that sells anything, they are free to chose who to sell it to. Or are you claiming we had no right to determine who or what are products were used for?


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 21, 2020)

LA RAM FAN said:


> BasicHumanUnit said:
> 
> 
> > LA RAM FAN said:
> ...


So according to you we had no right to determine who we sold our products too? So you OPENLY support the war and the millions killed in China by Japan using OUR metal and OUR oil?


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Aug 21, 2020)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > anybody ever read a book called The Bataan Death March? The Japanese were a brutal Force to be recokened with.  They were offered a chance to end the war and refused so as you know it took a second bomb to get their submission and you better believe if Japan had those bombs they would have happily dropped them on us!
> ...


Biased view,oh my the irony,you need to look in the mirror when making that statement,biased view would describe you to the tee being so closed minded and non objective unwilling to unlearn eveything you have learned refusing to look at a different viewpoint other than your own and our corrupt government,refusing to be open minded and read mike griffiths documented research he has done refusing to read his posts on his thread,lol


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 21, 2020)

LA RAM FAN said:


> BasicHumanUnit said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


Answer the question, does a Country have a free right to determine who to sell to or not? Should a country opposed to the murder of millions of Chinese be FORCED to sell oil and metal to the Country killing them?


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Aug 21, 2020)

LA RAM FAN said:


> BasicHumanUnit said:
> 
> 
> > LA RAM FAN said:
> ...



You keep saying the US cut off Japan's oil supply.
Do you think that might have been done because the Axis powers were threatening Europe?
Do you realize your argument is about as ignorant as saying that the US should supply China with Aircraft carriers and F35 fighter jets?

It is so obvious to anyone who knows the dynamics of WWI and WW2 (who is not utterly biased) that America was trying
to keep out of WW2.    Like I said, the US had a policy of ISOLATIONISM.    Look up the meaning.

Whatever measures the US took against Japan was to hamper Japan and Germany's success.

What you are saying in essence is that you believe Hitler and Japan's success in WW2 would;d have been a better outcome.
Further proof you are completely ignorant to the horrors of Nazi Germany.  Are you one of those Holocaust deniers also?

Mike Griffith would make an excellent CNN Journalist.  They fabricate everything.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 21, 2020)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > BasicHumanUnit said:
> ...


He can not and will not answer how it was ok for Japan to attack us for not selling to them when they used what we sold them to butcher the Chinese. The USA repeatedly told Japan to stop the war in China or we would stop selling to them. I guess this boob thinks murdring Chinese by the millions is something we should have had no problem with.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 21, 2020)

LA RAM FAN said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > LA RAM FAN said:
> ...


So you DENY Japan was killing Chinese now........ And you call us delusional.


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Aug 21, 2020)

Revisionists on the Left are actively re-writing history and serving those revised books to young people.
This is documented and has been going on for a long time.

So many young people today have been fed propaganda for so long that the only history they know is the distorted propaganda
they have been fed by Marxists.

Just as they are tearing down statutes of Americas Founders, they are re-writing school books and teaching children alternative history.
One that always paints America as evil.
They have done a superb job in turning Americas youth and weak minded against America itself.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Aug 21, 2020)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > BasicHumanUnit said:
> ...



you keep embarrassing yourself even more so,japen would have had no success had dirty Harry Truman Not dropped the bomb on them murdering millions of women and children ignoring how they tried to surrender but that mass murderer ignored them,a fact you keep evading,the only biased one is you the fact that is bullshit that FDR was trying to keep us out of WWII, that’s grasping at straws that they cut off their oil supply because the axis powers were threatening Europe the FACT that murderer FDR wanted to enter the war and had to use the excuse of selling it to the people by deliberately letting them bomb japen  the fucking traiter,oh and there are many high ranking military people that came out that are on record about FDRs treason,

I am not going to keep repeating the source over and over again just to watch you ignore it,mike took everyone to school,your so biased and closed minded though that your clearly not going to read it though so I refuse to go any further with someone so closed minded that they won’t even look at the evidence of thst I have referred to them too many times to remember.its tiresome repeating it over and over just to watch you ignore it sense it does not support your warped opinions and then i git to listen to a bunch of crap and bs from you thst I am anti American for talking about two presidents who should also have been tried for war crimes against humanity at Nuremberg.

Only an idiot would ignore the documented historical facts that MANY high ranking credible military people like MacArthur and several others like him are on record in the historical archives saying  that they opposed bombing japen,that it was unnecessary.

I,ll listen to them over some freaking corrupt politician like FDR and Dirty Harry Truman,only an idiot would NOT.Lol

Politicians are evil mass murderers and liars,I cannot believe I even have to explain any of that to you.lol

I


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Aug 21, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


Reread previous post,it still stands troll


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Aug 21, 2020)

LA RAM FAN said:


> BasicHumanUnit said:
> 
> 
> > LA RAM FAN said:
> ...



With such a deep hatred for America, it begs the question....why do you stay ?

And why would I want to read your obviously biased information when I know it's biased and inaccurate?

*You have refused to address the question several times* ......
Do you think Japan or Germany would have used the atomic bomb if they beat America to it?
Further, Germany was very close to creating an atomic bomb.   Do you think Germany would have used it against America?

Because you have been taught only America was interested in atomic weapons.....look up "Operation Gunnerside"
If you read this, and honestly answer the questions above, ANY "reasonable" person would begin to have doubts about what you say.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 21, 2020)

LA RAM FAN said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
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Reread what YOU have just claimed the US had no right to stop selling to Japan and that that justified Japan attacking us.


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## LA RAM FAN (Aug 22, 2020)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
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That’s it,I’m tired of your bullshit,you keep making false accusations saying I’m anti American just because I tell facts of the atrocities of a hero of yours you don’t want to hear,that’s just completely asinine and stupid beyond words to falsely accuse someone of being anti American just for telling facts about our history our corrupt school system left out and did not tell us especially when I corrected that bullshit of yours that I love America I just hate our government because it’s so fucking corrupt,the fact both parties are corrupt and has been that way sense 1913.you are too dense to see that of course obviously that the constitution of the United States has been burned for DECADES now,you obviously are so freaking dense you don’t even see that  or that our country is not what our forefathers faught for,that the government does not serve the people as they are suppose to as stated in the constitution,that we serve THEM.  

Truman and FDR did not give a shit about the constitution.most importantly if anybody is anti American it is YOU the fact that you believe two fucking traiter presidents Over patriotic high ranking military officers like mcarthur and others who viciously opposed the actions of that bastard Truman, trolls like you in my experience when these facts are pointed out then start getting desperate and make up lies these military officers like them never said that and it’s not on record and shit like that,they did that on mike griffiths thread after he owned their sorry asses but they were a bunch of babies to immature to admit that he checkmated them never addressing his evidence he gave so you’ll do the same no doubt.


Again I gave you the thread with the resources and told you to read all his posts but as we both know,you are too arrogant,closed minded,and biased to unlearn what you have learned so you clearly can’t be reasoned with so I’m done with you,

Just as I got done with that other troll YEARS ago,the one that has reading comprehension problems and can’t understand that 
So he feels the need to talk to himself.lol


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## BasicHumanUnit (Aug 22, 2020)

LA RAM FAN said:


> BasicHumanUnit said:
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> > LA RAM FAN said:
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I'll take that as your surrender......
You were cornered with these questions and it blew your line of propaganda.

*You have refused to address the question several times* ......
Do you think Japan or Germany would have used the atomic bomb if they beat America to it?
Further, Germany was very close to creating an atomic bomb.   Do you think Germany would have used it against America?

These questions forced you to admit that America was not the only one advancing or planning to use atomic weapons.
You could not answer this honestly without admitting America simply beat others to it....but was not alone in plans to use it.
Thanks for playing.


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## LA RAM FAN (Aug 22, 2020)

WillowTree said:


> anybody ever read a book called The Bataan Death March? The Japanese were a brutal Force to be recokened with.  They were offered a chance to end the war and refused so as you know it took a second bomb to get their submission and you better believe if Japan had those bombs they would have happily dropped them on us!


Obviously the governments version of events what they want you to hear.lol for every book like that listed,mike Griffith listed DOZENS of others that is not true.


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## Markle (Aug 22, 2020)

LA RAM FAN said:


> I have several high ranking people in the military as sources I can list that opposed Truman in nuking them thst are on record stating so which always goes ignored everytime I list them by you revisionists apologists who have only our corrupt textbooks from our corrupt school system to use as your source.lol


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## LA RAM FAN (Aug 22, 2020)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
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Thanks for playing your dodgeball game proving you are willing to unlearn what you have learned only seeeing what you want to see and like all revisionist troll,have to get into name calling being a sore loser when getting checkmated,lol


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## BasicHumanUnit (Aug 22, 2020)

LA RAM FAN said:


> BasicHumanUnit said:
> 
> 
> > LA RAM FAN said:
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*You have refused to address the question several times* ......
Do you think Japan or Germany would have used the atomic bomb if they beat America to it?
Further, Germany was very close to creating an atomic bomb.   Do you think Germany would have used it against America?

These questions forced you to admit that America was not the only one advancing or planning to use atomic weapons.
You could not answer this honestly without admitting America simply beat others to it....but was not alone in plans to use it.
Thanks for playing.


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## LA RAM FAN (Aug 22, 2020)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
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LA RAM FAN said:


> BasicHumanUnit said:
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Again thanks for playing your dodgeball game,you evade facts with questions that are irreverent 





BasicHumanUnit said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
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LA RAM FAN said:


> BasicHumanUnit said:
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Have to say it again the fact it is so true.

your just deflecting  ignoring the facts with Irrelevent questions refusing to admit Truman and FDR we’re mass murderers of women and children bombing civilians Murdering women and children instead of bombing a military installation blatantly trolling ignoring that japen was willing to surrender Which warmonger traiter Dirty Harry had no interest in looking like an idiot with irrelevent drivel that do not refute the FACTS that Truman was a fucking mass murderer of women and children and should have been hung up by the balls put on trial at Nuremberg for IGNORING the many times japen offered surrender,ignoring many senior military officials and soldiers that  have called out what a traiter mass murderer that motherfucker was.

Facts you would. KNOW if you stopped being so freaking Arrogant acting like a know it all and be objective willing to Unlearn what you have learned and read all the excellent documented evidence that mike Griffith talked about on his thread which you have proved in spades you are not open minded enough to look at. 

Oh and Truman were  fucking traiters because stalin was as evil as Hitler and that mass murderer FDR palled around with him as seen in photos. Patton even said in his letters,he could have taken Russia and they were the major enemy America should go after.considering all the atrocities Stalin committed,he was correct.He said in his letters he was not allowed to take them down as he should have been able to by his superior meaning mass murderer tratiter FDR.





You just keep speculating what japen or Germany WOULD have done which is all irreverent to the traitorous actions of  child murderer  Dirty Harry.so in your own words,thanks for playing.lol


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## the other mike (Aug 22, 2020)

Chris Wallace thinks Truman did the right thing.








						Fox News Sunday's Chris Wallace on decision that ended World War II and changed the world
					

Fox News Sunday anchor Chris Wallace re-examined the period between Truman's inauguration and the dropping of the A-bomb in the Fox Nation special "Countdown 1945," which is based on his new book, "Countdown 1945: The Extraordinary Story of the Atomic Bomb and the 116 Days That Changed the World."




					www.foxnews.com


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 22, 2020)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> Do you think Japan or Germany would have used the atomic bomb if they beat America to it?


Of course, but the fact is that this was not an option for them. So, this is frivolous fantasizing.


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## LA RAM FAN (Aug 22, 2020)

Angelo said:


> Chris Wallace thinks Truman did the right thing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well of course he thinks that,the Mainstream media as you know is a tool for the government,a mouthpiece for them,mike on his thread documented Chris is a liar.that lady knows more than he does,she is a patriot,have not read that book but it sounds like a government book like case closed written by that CIA shill Gerald posner.i know you know what subject im talking about.lol


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## Markle (Aug 22, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> BasicHumanUnit said:
> 
> 
> > Do you think Japan or Germany would have used the atomic bomb if they beat America to it?
> ...



This whole thread, all 468 posts, is frivolous fantasizing.  How is including whether or not Germany or Japan would have used the atom bomb if they got it first any different?  Including that very plausible fact destroys your whole spiel.


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## Erinwltr (Aug 22, 2020)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
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It was War.  In case you did not read that on your iPhone history book.  

Now you get to ask all the hypotheticals, and second guess,  and be a badass on the interwebs.


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## Mac-7 (Aug 22, 2020)

BasicHumanUnit said:


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I agree with you 100% on this topic

After WWII anti America revisionist historians became thick as flies at our universities

and they have poisoned the minds of many into believing the lie that we are the bad guys in recent world history

thats bunk


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## Mac-7 (Aug 22, 2020)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> Germany and japan were the military powers at the start of WW2. NOT the USA


WWII is an example of what happens when America is not the dominant military power

shen America’s enemies such as russia, china, iran, north korea and possibly germany think they are strong enough to defeat us the choice for America and our friends -  few as they may be - will become surrender or die


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## BasicHumanUnit (Aug 22, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


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Thank you for that.
I say that we (Constitutional Patriots) are in deep trouble.
Forces looking to tear the USA and our Constitution apart have a stronghold on our system that is taking over.
Long ago they cleverly took control of the education system and entertainment / News industries.

We have an entire generation now who was fed the REVISED history of America and believe it and hate America passionately.
Marxist are having a field day, week, month, year, decade

I do not believe this Marxist Revolution will be stopped under the current response.
It was too well planned and allowed to flourish unobstructed for too long.
What will shock all these pseudo Marxist swallowing the lies is  how incredibly bad
 their own life situations will become once they have "won"


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## Unkotare (Aug 22, 2020)

BasicHumanUnit said:


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What does that have to do with this thread?


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 22, 2020)

Markle said:


> This whole thread, all 468 posts, is frivolous fantasizing. How is including whether or not Germany or Japan would have used the atom bomb if they got it first any different?


None of this thread involves creating a fantasy reality before the bombs were dropped. That's how it is different.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 22, 2020)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> Mac-7 said:
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What an embarrassingly stupid post by an amateur fascist.  You are not clever or original. This is the same garbage we heard from idiots regarding women's suffrage, social security, even public education. Same garbage, different century.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 22, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > This whole thread, all 468 posts, is frivolous fantasizing. How is including whether or not Germany or Japan would have used the atom bomb if they got it first any different?
> ...


Yes it does, at NO time did the Government of Japan offer to surrender, that is a fantasy.


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## LA RAM FAN (Aug 22, 2020)

gipper said:


> Scamp said:
> 
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> > Maybe Japan should not have attacked us. Sow the wind, wreap the whirlwind.
> ...


Good point,that fact never seems to register with them.


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## LA RAM FAN (Aug 22, 2020)

gipper said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
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As did mike Griffith on his thread,yeah it gets tiresome dealing with them when you list all the books and links out there that document it all just to watch them ignore it not wanting to unlearn what they have learned.


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## LA RAM FAN (Aug 22, 2020)

gipper said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
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Exactly,you nailed it word for word,that’s what I said over a hundred times in mike griffiths thread that Truman was no differerent than Stalin and Hitler,for someone to keep ignoring facts  how he could have avoided mass murdering millions of women and children easily and say he is different than hitler and Stalin is just plain asinine and being retarded.


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## LA RAM FAN (Aug 22, 2020)

Missouri_Mike said:


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History revionists are the government who wrote their version of events they wanted you to hear instead of telling the facts of what really happened.,got news for you,our government lied about EVERYTHING in our history classes in our corrupt school system,a fact many here obviously are clueless on.lol


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## Markle (Aug 22, 2020)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 22, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Yes it does, at NO time did the Government of Japan offer to surrender, that is a fantasy.


I think what was said is that they were prepping to eventually surrender and had made some overtures.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 22, 2020)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
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So Japan was NOT in a BRUTAL war with China off and on from 1931 to 1937 and then permanently from 1937? That was Government lie? Japan did not butcher millions of Chinese civilians from 31 to 45? Another Government lie? The US is the bad guy for telling Japan they would not sell oil and metal to them to keep murdering Chinese? Another Government lie I masse? LOL and you accuse us of revisionist history.

I have repeatedly asked for a link to any offer by the Japanese GOVERNMENT to surrender in 1944 or 1945 and all I have gotten are references to private groups or disavowed Officials. And yet I am the one making up stories?

After a single atomic bomb the Japanese Government VOTED not to surrender. After 2 Atomic bombs and an invasion by the Soviet Union the Governt of Japan STILL refused to surrender. And when the Emperor over rode the Government and offered to surrender the ARMY staged a COUP to stop that. But ya I am the revisionist......


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 22, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Yes it does, at NO time did the Government of Japan offer to surrender, that is a fantasy.
> ...


NOT the truth and that is NOT what Gipper or Unkotare have said AT ALL. They both have stated repeatedly that the Japanese OFFERED to surrender and we refused. And Now LA Fan is claiming every thing about the war was a lie by the US Government and you keep running interference for them.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 23, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> NOT the truth and that is NOT what Gipper or Unkotare have said AT ALL. They both have stated repeatedly that the Japanese OFFERED to surrender and we refused.


I see. But still, it is then just as fair to say that they didn't have nukes as it is to say they didn't offer to surrender. So the idea "they would have used them on us" is just not compelling and doesn't have much of a place in this discussion.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 23, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > NOT the truth and that is NOT what Gipper or Unkotare have said AT ALL. They both have stated repeatedly that the Japanese OFFERED to surrender and we refused.
> ...


Yet here you are defending the ignorant and FALSE claim by them that Japan tried to surrender. A fantasy is what this ENTIRE thread is and you approve support and encourage the fantasy while whining about another and STILL defending the original fantasy.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 23, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Yet here you are defending the ignorant and FALSE claim by them that Japan tried to surrender.


No, I am not. As far as I can tell, they were just prepping for the end of the war (which would include their surrender, as we would spin it; a peace deal, as they would spin it). "They" (Japan had about 4 governments at this point) made some overtures to Russia regarding the end of the war, for example.


The best I can do on this one is to lean to the idea that we should have waited to drop the second bomb for a few weeks.  Still torn on the first one.


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## Unkotare (Aug 23, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Yet here you are defending the ignorant and FALSE claim by them that Japan tried to surrender.
> ...



If that scumbag fdr had any interest in peace, any of several opportunities to investigate and pursue that route could have at least been followed to see where it might lead. Maybe it would have led nowhere, but the scumbag fdr had no interest in the idea. Just think about how many American servicemen might not have died if peace (at the terms we eventually accepted anyway) had been worked out before terrible battles like Okinawa. But then fdr, like most democrats, had no interest in human life (or the Constitution).


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## Missouri_Mike (Aug 23, 2020)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
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> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
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But you think our enemies are telling the truth.

Fucking idiot.


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## Missouri_Mike (Aug 23, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Yes it does, at NO time did the Government of Japan offer to surrender, that is a fantasy.
> ...


Well a couple fucking nukes took care of that prepping and eventually didn’t it.


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## Missouri_Mike (Aug 23, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


If they were surrendering like you claim why didn’t they do it at Okinawa? That’s a pretty large dug in battle for someone surrendering. And if what you’re saying is true what does that tell you about a Japs life? If their government had them fight on Okinawa when they were trying to surrender?


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## Unkotare (Aug 23, 2020)

Missouri_Mike said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
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Take the time to study the conflict and the period in detail.


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## Markle (Aug 23, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> No, I am not. As far as I can tell, they were just prepping for the end of the war (which would include their surrender, as we would spin it; a peace deal, as they would spin it). "They" (Japan had about 4 governments at this point) made some overtures to Russia regarding the end of the war, for example.
> 
> The best I can do on this one is to lean to the idea that we should have waited to drop the second bomb for a few weeks. Still torn on the first one.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 23, 2020)

Unkotare said:


> but the scumbag fdr had no interest in the idea.


Which I understand. The entire country, and especially it's leaders, was war weary.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 23, 2020)

Markle said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > No, I am not. As far as I can tell, they were just prepping for the end of the war (which would include their surrender, as we would spin it; a peace deal, as they would spin it). "They" (Japan had about 4 governments at this point) made some overtures to Russia regarding the end of the war, for example.
> ...




This question will come up again, maybe between two countries that we cannot influence. Yet this may affect you and the ones you love anyway. So we better figure it out.


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## LA RAM FAN (Aug 24, 2020)

seven farts 


Missouri_Mike said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > Missouri_Mike said:
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the truth hurts,i spelled it out for you but you of course ignored it sense it tears down the myth you worshio.LOL


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## LA RAM FAN (Aug 24, 2020)

wow seven farts in a row on this page from trolls before my post.LOL

Retired Moron has alzheimers diseace,he keeps babbling over and over on mike griffiths excellent thread that Gipper did not give him a link which is a fucking lie as anybody objective can see that he posted MANY links that document and back up the op on this thread,like the shill he is though he ignored them cause it does not jive with his babble and lies he posts. Retried Moron like the shill he is,only likes to see links that are from Langley.


this video backs up all the excellent links and books that mike griffith referred that troll to that he blatantly ignored.

Retired idiot and the other Revision apologists can only sling shit in defeat like the monkey trolls they are the fact this video backs up everything i say.


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## Markle (Aug 24, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...



I have figured it out.  When you join the real world, you will too.


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## BasicHumanUnit (Sep 12, 2020)

Anyone who points to America as the bad guy concerning the use of the atomic bomb against Japan is a unmitigated ignorant fool.  NO EXCEPTIONS.


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## Unkotare (Sep 13, 2020)

Can't expect everyone to be a historian, but only children look at wars in terms of "good guys" and "bad guys."


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