# Insomnia



## Lucy Hamilton (May 1, 2016)

So I've been inflicted with Insomnia for about 10 years now, I'm actually now conditioned to being okay with four hours of sleep, usually I'll be up each day at 9am, again conditioned.

This began when I was about 16 years-old, why I'm not sure. However, when I was at University, this is where the conditioning began, especially during exam times, I managed on four hours of sleep, like many of the other students, and still performed the exams well.

I know Tilly also is inflicted with Insomnia....maybe some others are, but I've missed any comments they might have made about this situation.


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## Lucy Hamilton (May 1, 2016)

dani67 said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
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> 
> > So I've been inflicted with Insomnia for about 10 years now, I'm actually now conditioned to being okay with four hours of sleep, usually I'll be up each day at 9am, again conditioned.
> ...



I've never been a big drinker, I've been drunk only twice, a horrible experience.


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## Dhara (May 1, 2016)

There are ways to help yourself with insomnia.  About the last thing you ought to be doing is being on line.  Not so good for brain and insomnaia.


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## Sarah G (May 1, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> So I've been inflicted with Insomnia for about 10 years now, I'm actually now conditioned to being okay with four hours of sleep, usually I'll be up each day at 9am, again conditioned.
> 
> This began when I was about 16 years-old, why I'm not sure. However, when I was at University, this is where the conditioning began, especially during exam times, I managed on four hours of sleep, like many of the other students, and still performed the exams well.
> 
> I know Tilly also is inflicted with Insomnia....maybe some others are, but I've missed any comments they might have made about this situation.


I usually go to sleep quickly but wake in about 3 hours.  I stay awake for 2 or 3 then go back to sleep and I usually make it until 7 or 8 am.  I force myself to stay up until at least 10 pm or I will stay awake longer after the initial couple of hours I get to start.

It's not healthy, I know but it's better, less frustrating if you accept it and don't worry too much.


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## Carla_Danger (May 1, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> So I've been inflicted with Insomnia for about 10 years now, I'm actually now conditioned to being okay with four hours of sleep, usually I'll be up each day at 9am, again conditioned.
> 
> This began when I was about 16 years-old, why I'm not sure. However, when I was at University, this is where the conditioning began, especially during exam times, I managed on four hours of sleep, like many of the other students, and still performed the exams well.
> 
> I know Tilly also is inflicted with Insomnia....maybe some others are, but I've missed any comments they might have made about this situation.





You and Tilly both, huh?  That's amazing.


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## pillars (May 1, 2016)

Interesting way of explaining why you are both constantly posting at 4 am BST.

But I think a simpler explanation is that Tilly and Lucy are the same person, and reside in the US.


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## Compost (May 1, 2016)

I've had bouts of insomnia for most of my adult life.  I spend the sleepless parts of the night reading.  Insomnia has allowed me to read more books than I would have otherwise.


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## HereWeGoAgain (May 1, 2016)

I here ya Lucy.
  Part of my problem is waking up at 5:00am everyday for 25 years.
But I didnt mind because I was home by 3:00 everyday.
    After 4 years of retirement I still cant kick the early wake up call,but to tell you the truth I love the early mornings.
  It's my favorite time of day.


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## Sarah G (May 1, 2016)

Compost said:


> I've had bouts of insomnia for most of my adult life.  I spend the sleepless parts of the night reading.  Insomnia has allowed me to read more books than I would have otherwise.


Do you just stay in your room or do you get out of bed once you wake up?


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## DarkFury (May 1, 2016)

*I have it as well and often can be found posting at 4am or even later.*


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## Lucy Hamilton (May 1, 2016)

Compost said:


> I've had bouts of insomnia for most of my adult life.  I spend the sleepless parts of the night reading.  Insomnia has allowed me to read more books than I would have otherwise.



Some time ago, I tried sleeping tablets, which they did work, but I told my doctor that I was not taking them anymore, I just didn't want to get hooked on sleeping pills.


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## Compost (May 1, 2016)

Sarah G said:


> Compost said:
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> > I've had bouts of insomnia for most of my adult life.  I spend the sleepless parts of the night reading.  Insomnia has allowed me to read more books than I would have otherwise.
> ...


I stay in bed.  There's a reading light set up above the bed and the headboard is a bookcase!  Happily, my reading does not disturb my husband.


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## Dhara (May 1, 2016)

Hey Lucy.

Don't you think everyone awake at 4am is the same person/

Dhara


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## Lucy Hamilton (May 1, 2016)

Sarah G said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
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> > So I've been inflicted with Insomnia for about 10 years now, I'm actually now conditioned to being okay with four hours of sleep, usually I'll be up each day at 9am, again conditioned.
> ...



This is how I've felt for years, that there's no cure as such for Insomnia, so it's just something you have to except. As I said in my OP, I'm conditioned to it now, and at least I have some sort of routine, that being I can be up at 9am without much problem.


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## Compost (May 1, 2016)

QUOTE="Lucy Hamilton, post: 14154400, member: 56028"]





Compost said:


> I've had bouts of insomnia for most of my adult life.  I spend the sleepless parts of the night reading.  Insomnia has allowed me to read more books than I would have otherwise.



Some time ago, I tried sleeping tablets, which they did work, but I told my doctor that I was not taking them anymore, I just didn't want to get hooked on sleeping pills.[/QUOTE]
I'm scared of pills.  Some say warm milk works but I don't like warm milk..  It sounds like you are doing fine with less than recommended hours of sleep.


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## saveliberty (May 1, 2016)

Working on irrigation systems  all afternoon two days in a row with light rain and 50 degrees seems to have made me quite sleepy tonight.

Hammie stays awake worrying what time zones we all live in.


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## Lucy Hamilton (May 1, 2016)

Dhara said:


> Hey Lucy.
> 
> Don't you think everyone awake at 4am is the same person/
> 
> Dhara



Yes I'm obviously also Dark Fury as well as being Tilly....I'm also 200 other people on this forum, I'm too many people on this forum to possibly give you the full list for fear the post will be so large they might have to increase the bandwidth of the entire forum to cope


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## deltex1 (May 1, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> Compost said:
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> > I've had bouts of insomnia for most of my adult life.  I spend the sleepless parts of the night reading.  Insomnia has allowed me to read more books than I would have otherwise.
> ...


How much do you exercise?  I wear myself out with yard work or racquetball every day...usually sleep from 9 to 6....


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## Lucy Hamilton (May 1, 2016)

DarkFury said:


> *I have it as well and often can be found posting at 4am or even later.*



Hey you post some of your best stuff at that time though


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## Sarah G (May 1, 2016)

Compost said:


> Sarah G said:
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I just get up and get on here or clean or cook.


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## Lucy Hamilton (May 1, 2016)

saveliberty said:


> Working on irrigation systems  all afternoon two days in a row with light rain and 50 degrees seems to have made me quite sleepy tonight.
> 
> Hammie stays awake worrying what time zones we all live in.



That's not good, worrying can cause ulcers.


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## Toro (May 1, 2016)

I used to have very bad insomnia when I was younger.  I don't get it much any more, but every once in awhile, it hits me.

Usually it was because I couldn't settle my mind down.  What helped was focusing on one thing away from whatever was on my mind.  That could be music or radio talk shows.  To this day, I go to sleep listening to podcasts.  

When I still can't get to sleep, what often helps is moving to somewhere different.  That could be something as simple as reversing my position and putting my head at the foot of the bed.  Usually, it involves moving to somewhere else.  Sometimes that is the couch or the floor.  If that doesn't work, then I'll get up for 30-45 minutes and occupy some time.  

Insomnia sucks.


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## saveliberty (May 1, 2016)

If insomnia sucked all the guys would want it.


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## Compost (May 1, 2016)

Sarah G said:


> Compost said:
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That's cool that you get some chores done.  I keep thinking one of these nights I'll go outside and bird watch.  It would be fun to see an owl.


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## Lucy Hamilton (May 1, 2016)

deltex1 said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
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Most mornings I go swimming, so that's exercise. A few months ago, I went to bed at about 11pm and I somehow slept for 8 hours and woke up with a Migraine. I'm sure this must have been because 8 hours to me is oversleeping, being used to just getting 4 hours for so long a time.


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## Lucy Hamilton (May 1, 2016)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> I here ya Lucy.
> Part of my problem is waking up at 5:00am everyday for 25 years.
> But I didnt mind because I was home by 3:00 everyday.
> After 4 years of retirement I still cant kick the early wake up call,but to tell you the truth I love the early mornings.
> It's my favorite time of day.



You had a routine for so long, for 25 years, so you've been conditioned to wake up at 5am.


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## Sarah G (May 1, 2016)

Compost said:


> Sarah G said:
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Stay safe.


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## Lucy Hamilton (May 1, 2016)

Sarah G said:


> Compost said:
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Owls aren't dangerous....or are they? I love Owls, they're beautiful creatures.


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## Sarah G (May 1, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


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  No, I meant going outside in the middle of the night.


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## CremeBrulee (May 1, 2016)

I have had this problem since childhood.  I will get about 4 hours of sleep on a good night.  Sometimes it gets really bad and I'm up for 36-48 hours straight.  Eventually I shut down and sleep for 18-20 hours.  I tried otc products like sleep aid but it takes 4 or 5 to actually make me fall asleep.  About the only thing I haven't tried is seeing a psychiatrist.


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## The Great Goose (May 1, 2016)

Guilty conscience eh Lucy?


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## Lucy Hamilton (May 1, 2016)

Compost said:


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I've always loved Owls, gorgeous creatures:






A Parliament of Owls:


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## Lucy Hamilton (May 1, 2016)

The Great Goose said:


> Guilty conscience eh Lucy?



Huh?


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## Lucy Hamilton (May 1, 2016)

CremeBrulee said:


> I have had this problem since childhood.  I will get about 4 hours of sleep on a good night.  Sometimes it gets really bad and I'm up for 36-48 hours straight.  Eventually I shut down and sleep for 18-20 hours.  I tried otc products like sleep aid but it takes 4 or 5 to actually make me fall asleep.  About the only thing I haven't tried is seeing a psychiatrist.



Wow that's extreme, 36-48 hours, so how often is it that extreme?


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## Lucy Hamilton (May 1, 2016)

Sarah G said:


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Oh okay, sorry


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## Carla_Danger (May 1, 2016)

Has anyone heard the joke about the 2 European's who have their clocks set to central time zone?


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## Sarah G (May 1, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


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It's okay.


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## CremeBrulee (May 1, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> CremeBrulee said:
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> > I have had this problem since childhood.  I will get about 4 hours of sleep on a good night.  Sometimes it gets really bad and I'm up for 36-48 hours straight.  Eventually I shut down and sleep for 18-20 hours.  I tried otc products like sleep aid but it takes 4 or 5 to actually make me fall asleep.  About the only thing I haven't tried is seeing a psychiatrist.
> ...


It happens about every 2 weeks or so.  I use the time to clean and do chores. Keeps my house looking immaculate.  Although my cabinets are starting to look like Patrick Bergin's in Sleeping With the Enemy.


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## Sarah G (May 1, 2016)

CremeBrulee said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
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That was a great movie.


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## Lucy Hamilton (May 1, 2016)

saveliberty said:


> Working on irrigation systems  all afternoon two days in a row with light rain and 50 degrees seems to have made me quite sleepy tonight.
> 
> Hammie stays awake worrying what time zones we all live in.



Dani is up early today, I have it coming up 7am in Iran, his posts like everyone in the world that posts here, including our two Russian friends, all posts are set to Forum Time and not to the particular time zone of each nation.


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## S.J. (May 1, 2016)

Headphones and an mp3 player works well.


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## BULLDOG (May 1, 2016)

It started for me when I retired. Still lots to do, but no specific time to do it, so I enjoyed sleeping past 4:30 am. Later up meant later to sleep the next night. After about a year, it came down to sleeping 3 to 5 hours a couple of times a day whenever the mood hit.  It is a really weird schedule, but I don't see it as a problem.


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## Tilly (May 1, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> So I've been inflicted with Insomnia for about 10 years now, I'm actually now conditioned to being okay with four hours of sleep, usually I'll be up each day at 9am, again conditioned.
> 
> This began when I was about 16 years-old, why I'm not sure. However, when I was at University, this is where the conditioning began, especially during exam times, I managed on four hours of sleep, like many of the other students, and still performed the exams well.
> 
> I know Tilly also is inflicted with Insomnia....maybe some others are, but I've missed any comments they might have made about this situation.


Hi Lucy, same here. Insomnia since childhood, perfected in uni, lol. 
I've never really needed more than 4-5 hours sleep, but there are times when the insomnia seems to worsen, when I can't switch the brain off, and that's not so good.  I tried Zopiclone for such times, it was excellent in terms of getting me to sleep and keeping me asleep, BUT it made me feel so awful the next day that I'd have felt better if I hadn't slept at all. It was a bit like being badly hungover. Plus it might have a negative impact on memory, so not for me.
A glass or two of wine seems to help a bit, but I don't feel like drinking wine every night, so not much use.  Herbal remedies, some seem to work on the GABA neurotransmitter, and they just make me anxious, as does 5htp, the opposite of the desired effect.  Working nights and being on call also has not been good for my sleep for various reasons.  
Anyway, a few items of interest (not advice) I have found that melatonin helps, but the problem is it's potentially a bit risky to take unless you are post menopausal, as it may affect other hormones. So for me, this is only used in extremis a couple of times a month. You can't buy it in the UK, but you can online (ie Eurovital).  Recently, my sis was over from Australia and she was grateful for my sinsomnia, lol.
Anyway, for those who possibly shouldn't use melatonin, and for whom 5htp is contraindicated, Tryptophan can work to some degree. It is on the same metabolic pathway as 5htp, and it makes melatonin. It's an amino acid, and it works better for my husband than me, but it does help a bit with switching off the brain.
Another point is, once you've become accustomed to being a night owl, your production of cortisol shifts, making sleeping earlier even more difficult to achieve. A saliva test at various times of the day can be used to
ascertain to what degree this has happened, and some people have success using phosphorylated (not phosphatidyl) Serine (amino acid) taken at specific times of the day to reduce cortisol when it is high at inappropriate times.  I haven't tried this yet but might.
Anyway, today I managed to get to sleep by midnight for a change, but was still up by 4 am. Sigh.


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## HereWeGoAgain (May 1, 2016)

Compost said:


> I've had bouts of insomnia for most of my adult life.  I spend the sleepless parts of the night reading.  Insomnia has allowed me to read more books than I would have otherwise.



  I do the same. It's a boon to readers actually,no interruptions.


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## Tilly (May 1, 2016)

CremeBrulee said:


> I have had this problem since childhood.  I will get about 4 hours of sleep on a good night.  Sometimes it gets really bad and I'm up for 36-48 hours straight.  Eventually I shut down and sleep for 18-20 hours.  I tried otc products like sleep aid but it takes 4 or 5 to actually make me fall asleep.  About the only thing I haven't tried is seeing a psychiatrist.


I used to skip sleep at uni with no problem. I still do it occasionally, but usually deliberately in an attempt to reset my clock. However, although it works, after a few days to a week I'm back to the usual routine, so it's not worth the effort unless it's for a specific reason.


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## HereWeGoAgain (May 1, 2016)

Compost said:


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  You have to get a Kindle Paper White.
I go in the back yard or anywhere else I want and read.
  I resisted for years but I'm very glad I gave into tech when it comes to books.
    Just think about it...you're laying in bed and you finish a book you know has a sequel,turn off airplane mode,order your book and you're reading the sequel in thirty seconds. And if you're a Prime member you get a shitload of free books,of course that costs around 80 bucks a year but I read far more than that.
     I'll never give up my Paper White.


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## Tilly (May 1, 2016)

HereWeGoAgain said:


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I did the same. Resisted getting a kindle as I adore real books, but when I got a boat, space is so precious I gave in and got the kindle. Also can read in the dark so no need to waste the electricity on the boat.  Kindles are a godsend.


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## HereWeGoAgain (May 1, 2016)

Tilly said:


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  Wait...you live on a boat? 
Aww hell I'm jealous!!! The wife and I are considering doing the same.
   Maybe hopping around the Caribbean until we get tired of it.
Thought about a circumnavigation in our younger days but I dont see it as we get older.


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## Tilly (May 1, 2016)

HereWeGoAgain said:


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Hi, HWGA, We don't actually live on it, although last year we took time out and spent 6 months on it to experience Autumn and some of the winter to see if we could live on it, as we were thinking of selling the house, and living on the boat whilst house hunting, so as not to be in a chain. We will probably do that next year, it's work that's the problem, ie mooring somewhere practicable. This isn't a sail boat, btw, it's a 70ft canal boat, so mostly for inland waterways and coastal waterways.. Not exciting like a sailboat, but great fun.


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## HereWeGoAgain (May 1, 2016)

Tilly said:


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  Still very cool. At 70ft it should be plenty livable.
We've looked at some 45ft blue water cats for our journey and we just might do it.
    We love the idea of seeing the Caribbean on our own terms.


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## waltky (May 1, 2016)

Wonder if lizards ever suffer from insomnia?...

*Lizards share sleep patterns with humans*
_Fri, 29 Apr 2016 - Scientists say sleep patterns previously thought exclusive to mammals and birds are also found in lizards._


> Lizards share sleep patterns with humans, according to scientists.  Until now, it was thought features of human sleep such as rapid eye movements were seen only in mammals and birds.  Now, a study of the bearded dragon - a popular pet - suggests these distinctive sleep rhythms emerged hundreds of million of years ago in a distant ancestor.  They could even have been present in dinosaurs, say scientists.  Some form of sleep has been described in everything from worms to people.  But the sleep phases of humans and birds are very distinctive, involving cycles of deep (slow-wave) sleep, followed by awake-like brain activity and rapid eye movement (REM).
> 
> Faster rhythm
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## The Great Goose (May 2, 2016)

Tilly said:


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A boat? What kind?


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## The Great Goose (May 2, 2016)

Tilly said:


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That's massive! I didnt realize you'd done so well!


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## Compost (May 2, 2016)

HereWeGoAgain said:


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It sounds like a very cool gadget.  For now, I'm still in resistance!


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## saveliberty (May 2, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> Owls aren't dangerous....or are they? I love Owls, they're beautiful creatures.



Dangerous?  Depends, are you a woodland creature?


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## OldLady (May 2, 2016)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> I here ya Lucy.
> Part of my problem is waking up at 5:00am everyday for 25 years.
> But I didnt mind because I was home by 3:00 everyday.
> After 4 years of retirement I still cant kick the early wake up call,but to tell you the truth I love the early mornings.
> It's my favorite time of day.


The bad part is when you're on vacation somewhere and you want your 5 a.m. coffee and newspaper and the hotel and the world is still asleep.


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## HereWeGoAgain (May 2, 2016)

OldLady said:


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  Dont think I've ever stayed in a hotel that didnt have a coffee maker in the room and now days you have WI-FI so you can still read the paper.


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## OldLady (May 2, 2016)

saveliberty said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
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> > Owls aren't dangerous....or are they? I love Owls, they're beautiful creatures.
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Except the screech owl that visited the blue spruce outside my bedroom window one night and started up such a fierce screaming that I was sure (1) the cat had somehow gotten outside and was being murdered, then (2) (once I'd gotten my heart down out of my throat) another very large creature was outside being murdered.  It was the most chilling noise in the middle of the night I've ever heard.  They're little tiny things.  Unbelievable.


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## OldLady (May 2, 2016)

HereWeGoAgain said:


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I now ask before booking a room.


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## Sarah G (May 2, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


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I like the way they look too.  I don't think I've ever seen one really.  I've heard them.


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## Carla_Danger (May 3, 2016)

Compost said:


> I'm scared of pills.  Some say warm milk works but I don't like warm milk..  It sounds like you are doing fine with less than recommended hours of sleep.




Nobody is fine with not enough sleep. It eventually causes all sorts of health problems.


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## Carla_Danger (May 3, 2016)

Exercise helps you sleep better. Eating right and not drinking too much caffeine, especially late in the afternoon helps.

I hear this new book has some great tips on how to get better sleep.







New study shows that not enough sleep can cause brain damage.

New Study Shows Lack of Sleep Leads to Permanent Brain Damage »  the nerve blog  | Blog Archive  | Boston University 

People who suffer from insomnia are more prone to...

Obesity

Stroke

Heart failure

Heart attack

High blood pressure 

Brain damage

Poor quality of life....etc.

Sleep Habits: More Important Than You Think

Oh, and here's a biggie.  Insomnia and weight gain.


Is Lack of Sleep Causing You to Gain Weight?


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## Sarah G (May 4, 2016)

BULLDOG said:


> It started for me when I retired. Still lots to do, but no specific time to do it, so I enjoyed sleeping past 4:30 am. Later up meant later to sleep the next night. After about a year, it came down to sleeping 3 to 5 hours a couple of times a day whenever the mood hit.  It is a really weird schedule, but I don't see it as a problem.


I just don't want to be up at this time of night.  Earlier today, I had 4 people stop by all at different times, just to chat.  I love having them come over but I wouldn't have time for a 3 hour nap.  I can set my own hours because I work from home but then there's that also.

This is just the most convenient time to sleep, dang it!


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## BULLDOG (May 4, 2016)

Sarah G said:


> BULLDOG said:
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> > It started for me when I retired. Still lots to do, but no specific time to do it, so I enjoyed sleeping past 4:30 am. Later up meant later to sleep the next night. After about a year, it came down to sleeping 3 to 5 hours a couple of times a day whenever the mood hit.  It is a really weird schedule, but I don't see it as a problem.
> ...




I've run into similar situations like that a few times too. It's inconvenient, but I always fall back on what has become my favorite thought-------oh, well------- at least I'm not having to get up a 4:30 every day and attend early meetings before the crew shows up, try to figure out how to fix what got screwed up yesterday, run a job where mature competent workers occasionally do stupid shit for no discern-able reason, and then finish up my paperwork and fax it to the main office around 8Pm, and then enjoy a few minutes of my own life before I fall asleep so I can get up and  do it again the next day. When I consider it in those terms, I sometimes have to do a happy dance.


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## bettyho (Dec 16, 2021)

I have been under a lot of pressure recently at work. I don’t have a clear objection to worry about nervousness, restlessness, and symptoms of autonomic dysfunction, such as palpitations, hand tremors, sweating, frequent urination, etc., and exercise anxiety. So I chose to exercise, not only can I secrete dopamine, but also make me feel happy.


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