# "Why I Defend Socialism" from a Cuban



## alpine

Cuba: Why I Defend Socialism

"I am a Cuban who has lived for 76 years, therefore I know full well how life was before the revolution, having experienced it directly and indirectly. 

As a result, it hurts me to read so many aspersions cast upon a government that fights tooth and nail to provide us a better life. If it hasn’t fully been able to do so, this is because of the many obstacles that have been put in its way."



Writer compares Cuba to Bolivia and Venezuela, and I think these examples could be extended by others, which Cuba is doing fairly well against. Especially considering the fact that; Cuba was blockaded by the Super Power of this planet for long and lacked the natural resources.

Tough job, good work, imo....


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## ScienceRocks

Cuba is marxist socialism that doesn't allow a private sector and doesnt make respect human rights. HOw the fuck can anyone compare social democracy to it?? 

Pure capitalism has just as many problems.


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## alpine

Matthew said:


> Cuba is marxist socialism that doesn't allow a private sector and doesnt make respect human rights. HOw the fuck can anyone compare social democracy to it??
> 
> Pure capitalism has just as many problems.



I dont think he does that tho.
He is comparing the "application", it seems to me.


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## Two Thumbs

he's obviously a fucking idiot who never had true freedom

the government before castro was a corrupt one, so there is no comparison to here.

if you want to give away your freedoms, there's plenty of countries taht will take you in, but you want to give away mine as well.

and that's wrong, not that leftist give a fuck about right and wrong as long as they get what they want


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## Andylusion

alpine said:


> Cuba: Why I Defend Socialism
> 
> "I am a Cuban who has lived for 76 years, therefore I know full well how life was before the revolution, having experienced it directly and indirectly.
> 
> As a result, it hurts me to read so many aspersions cast upon a government that fights tooth and nail to provide us a better life. If it hasn’t fully been able to do so, this is because of the many obstacles that have been put in its way."
> 
> 
> 
> Writer compares Cuba to Bolivia and Venezuela, and I think these examples could be extended by others, which Cuba is doing fairly well against. Especially considering the fact that; Cuba was blockaded by the Super Power of this planet for long and lacked the natural resources.
> 
> Tough job, good work, imo....



I'm not sure how anyone from Cuba could defend Socialism, except they were in the government.   People who worked in government under socialism, would obviously defend it, because their specific lot, got better.  

But by any rational measure, any objective comparison, socialism ruined Cuba.   You can see in the 1950s, that Cuba was very much a 1st world country.  They were driving the same modern cars, Americans were driving at the time.  They were living in the same modern buildings, that Americans lived in at the time.   They has had a health care system very similar to that of America at the time.

By any quantifiable measure, they had the America standard of living.

While things are improving today in Cuba, for the past decade, they lived as a 3rd world country.   They were still driving battered, and beaten 1950s cars, with more duct tape, than metal.   Their buildings are patched and boarded and hobbled together, from the 1950s.   Buildings routinely fall down.

Latin American Herald Tribune - Death Toll in Cuba Building Collapse Climbs to 4

And their health care system has been horrific.  Doctors routinely refuse to report the death of patients, because if they do, they could lose the job they have.    Aspirin is so rare, it's like finding a moon rock.   People live 3 families in one home, because the housing shortage is so bad.

So I don't know where this guy was, or what job he had in the government, but he either smoked pot the entire communist era of Cuba, or he's lying.

The only other thing I'd argue with, is this myth of the blockade.   There is no blockade of Cuba, and never was.   America has an Embargo.   The only country on the face of the planet, that Cuba absolutely can't trade with, is America.

But this BS that Cuba has no natural resources, and has a blockade against it, is ridiculous.

OEC   - Cuba (CUB) Exports, Imports, and Trade Partners

Five seconds.  Just five little seconds, to punch in Cuba Trade, and find that Cuba has imported $7 Billion dollars worth of goods.  And has exported $2.5 Billion dollars worth of goods.

While those numbers seem small, remember that Cuba only has a GDP $6 Billion.   Yes, that's right, they are importing more goods, than the entire country produces in a year.

How are they importing so much, if there is this mythical "blockade" of the country?

BTW, Cuba has more natural resources than Hong Kong. 

Hong Kong isn't producing gold, nickle, iron ore, and sugar cane, or tabacco.  Cuba is.

So this myth that cuba has no natural resource, and is blockaded by the US, all lies.  All of it.

There is only one reason Cuba is poor.  Socialism.  Period.


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## TyroneSlothrop

Andylusion said:


> There is only one reason Cuba is poor.  Socialism.  Period.


At least in Cuba they do not put lead in water for children...and they do not have the largest prison population, we do....*and the Cuban Population is healthy and educated unlike the masses of Latin America..*.the Cuban Government did not gun down unarmed students protesting ...the US Government did that at Jackson State and at Kent State....in Cuba they do not boil prisoners alive like they did in Florida then claim the prisoner died of schizophrenia which is not a physical disease...Cuba  has indeed been damaged economically by US plots and schemes enacted into law whether or not you want to admit it
*FL Prison Guards Boil Mentally Ill Inmate Alive*
*Kent State and Jackson State*
*Cuba La Demanda: The People of Cuba vs. the U.S. Government*

*In Cuba, it is known simply as la demanda-the legal complaint.*
*On May 31, 1999, a lawsuit for $181 billion in wrongful death and personal injury damages was filed in Havana Provincial Civil Court against the government of the United States. The plaintiffs are eight national organizations, on behalf of their members, representing nearly the entire population of the island.*
*The complaint describes, in considerable detail, forty years of U.S. acts of aggression against Cuba, and specifies, often by name, date, and particular circumstances, each person known to have been killed or grievously wounded as a direct victim of this campaign. In all, 3,478 people were killed and an additional 2,099 seriously injured. (These figures do not include any indirect victims of the economic pressures, the blockade, the difficulties in obtaining medicine and food, all due to deliberate U.S. policy)*
*The complaint was served upon the United States through the appropriate diplomatic channels: from the Court, to the Cuban Ministry of Foreign Affairs, to the United States Department of State. As expected, the U.S. chose not to respond, and twenty days later was declared by the Court to be in default, in accordance with Cuban law.*
*Nevertheless, under Cuban law, as in most jurisdictions, a default by the defendant does not, by itself, authorize a judgment in the amount of damages requested. The plaintiff must still prove the two elements of such an action, that the defendant caused the damages and that the damages were in the amount claimed. Consequently, on July 5, 1999, what was ultimately to be a 13-day trial with testimony from 196 witnesses commenced in the large, elegantly marbled chamber where the Supreme Court of Cuba once sat. The trial ended on July 21, 1999, and the five-judge court recessed to prepare its judgment. As of this writing, the decision has not yet been announced.*


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## Tommy Tainant

Matthew said:


> Cuba is marxist socialism that doesn't allow a private sector and doesnt make respect human rights. HOw the fuck can anyone compare social democracy to it??
> 
> Pure capitalism has just as many problems.


Actually there is a thriving legitimate private sector in Cuba where people have set up their own businesses.


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## Two Thumbs

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is only one reason Cuba is poor.  Socialism.  Period.
> 
> 
> 
> At least in Cuba they do not put lead in water for children...and they do not have the largest prison population, we do....*and the Cuban Population is healthy and educated unlike the masses of Latin America..*.the Cuban Government did not gun down unarmed students protesting ...the US Government did that at Jackson State and at Kent State....in Cuba they do not boil prisoners alive like they did in Florida then claim the prisoner died of schizophrenia which is not a physical disease...Cuba  has indeed been damaged economically by US plots and schemes enacted into law whether or not you want to admit it
> *FL Prison Guards Boil Mentally Ill Inmate Alive*
> *Kent State and Jackson State*
> *Cuba La Demanda: The People of Cuba vs. the U.S. Government*
> 
> *In Cuba, it is known simply as la demanda-the legal complaint.*
> *On May 31, 1999, a lawsuit for $181 billion in wrongful death and personal injury damages was filed in Havana Provincial Civil Court against the government of the United States. The plaintiffs are eight national organizations, on behalf of their members, representing nearly the entire population of the island.*
> *The complaint describes, in considerable detail, forty years of U.S. acts of aggression against Cuba, and specifies, often by name, date, and particular circumstances, each person known to have been killed or grievously wounded as a direct victim of this campaign. In all, 3,478 people were killed and an additional 2,099 seriously injured. (These figures do not include any indirect victims of the economic pressures, the blockade, the difficulties in obtaining medicine and food, all due to deliberate U.S. policy)*
> *The complaint was served upon the United States through the appropriate diplomatic channels: from the Court, to the Cuban Ministry of Foreign Affairs, to the United States Department of State. As expected, the U.S. chose not to respond, and twenty days later was declared by the Court to be in default, in accordance with Cuban law.*
> *Nevertheless, under Cuban law, as in most jurisdictions, a default by the defendant does not, by itself, authorize a judgment in the amount of damages requested. The plaintiff must still prove the two elements of such an action, that the defendant caused the damages and that the damages were in the amount claimed. Consequently, on July 5, 1999, what was ultimately to be a 13-day trial with testimony from 196 witnesses commenced in the large, elegantly marbled chamber where the Supreme Court of Cuba once sat. The trial ended on July 21, 1999, and the five-judge court recessed to prepare its judgment. As of this writing, the decision has not yet been announced.*
Click to expand...

And thousands of cubans got on leaky things that sorta floated and risked death to leave cuba to come here b/c??????



don't bother

socialism sucks balls,  you're just to fucking ignorant to grasp the idea, reality never sinks in to the sheed


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## Two Thumbs

Tommy Tainant said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cuba is marxist socialism that doesn't allow a private sector and doesnt make respect human rights. HOw the fuck can anyone compare social democracy to it??
> 
> Pure capitalism has just as many problems.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually there is a thriving legitimate private sector in Cuba where people have set up their own businesses.
Click to expand...

That's a new thing, castro finally allowed his people to own and run things.

but that's not part of the theme, is it


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## TyroneSlothrop

Two Thumbs said:


> And thousands of cubans got on leaky things that sorta floated and risked death to leave cuba to come here b/c??????
> 
> 
> 
> don't bother
> 
> socialism sucks balls,  you're just to fucking ignorant to grasp the idea, reality never sinks in to the sheed


*
Citizens of Mexico, The Dominican Republic, El Salvador , Haiti and others risked their lives to come here.  I would say they are fleeing Democracy and the Capitalist system*.  It *"SUCKS BALLS"* according to what passes for logic in your screech.....

The difference is that Cuban citizens through the 1966 Cuban Adjustment Act are able to adjust their Legal status in US becoming eligible for resident status  a year and day after arrival regardless of lack of entry documents  and regardless of the means of conveyance for entry in the US...a huge advantage over the others I mentioned above...


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## Votto

Matthew said:


> Cuba is marxist socialism that doesn't allow a private sector and doesnt make respect human rights. HOw the fuck can anyone compare social democracy to it??
> 
> Pure capitalism has just as many problems.



If you had not noticed, the US recently passed the Patriot Act and NDAA that Obama signed into law enabling government to arrest its citizens without due process.  They also attack the private sector daily passing over 40,000 new laws and regulations every year.

Look in that mirror Barak Obama.

From what I hear, Obama is off to Cuba instead of going to Justice Scalia's funeral.  For the first time since Cuba turned to Marxist despotism a US president is visiting Cuba.

He must feel like he is going home again.


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## Two Thumbs

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> And thousands of cubans got on leaky things that sorta floated and risked death to leave cuba to come here b/c??????
> 
> 
> 
> don't bother
> 
> socialism sucks balls,  you're just to fucking ignorant to grasp the idea, reality never sinks in to the sheed
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Citizens of Mexico, The Dominican Republic, El Salvador , Haiti and others risked their lives to come here.  I would say they are fleeing Democracy and the Capitalist system*.  It *"SUCKS BALLS"* according to what passes for logic in your screech.....
> 
> The difference is that Cuban citizens through the 1966 Cuban Adjustment Act are able to adjust their Legal status in US becoming eligible for resident status  a year and day after arrival regardless of lack of entry documents  and regardless of the means of conveyance for entry in the US...a huge advantage over the others I mentioned above...
Click to expand...



You listed democracies, like the kind you want here, not one Constitutional republic or anything remotely not known for corruption.

the socialist in cuba overthrew a corrupt government, and still people fled, in leaky floating devices


Why do you hate freedom?  Are you deluded into thinking socialism is freedom?  Are you so ignorant of history that you want the government to be in charge of you?  Do you actually think a socialist government means they can't be bribed?

government control of us, + crony capitalism is what you are trying to get, but you don't even grasp that.


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## Andylusion

Tommy Tainant said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cuba is marxist socialism that doesn't allow a private sector and doesnt make respect human rights. HOw the fuck can anyone compare social democracy to it??
> 
> Pure capitalism has just as many problems.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually there is a thriving legitimate private sector in Cuba where people have set up their own businesses.
Click to expand...


That is entirely true, but only in recent years under the right-wing capitalist reforms in recent years.

Before then, the entire country was entirely a trash can of poverty and decline, under left-wing socialist ideology.


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## JQPublic1

Votto said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cuba is marxist socialism that doesn't allow a private sector and doesnt make respect human rights. HOw the fuck can anyone compare social democracy to it??
> 
> Pure capitalism has just as many problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you had not noticed, the US recently passed the Patriot Act and NDAA that Obama signed into law enabling government to arrest its citizens without due process.  They also attack the private sector daily passing over 40,000 new laws and regulations every year.
> 
> Look in that mirror Barak Obama.
> 
> From what I hear, Obama is off to Cuba instead of going to Justice Scalia's funeral.  For the first time since Cuba turned to Marxist despotism a US president is visiting Cuba.
> 
> He must feel like he is going home again.
Click to expand...

You are not tying Obama to the Patriot Act are you? A republican president signed THAT into law.  You continue with that ambiguous "they" to create your straw man
to insinuate that the Obama administration is attacking the private sector by "passing 40,000 new laws and regulations each year." I wasn't aware that the executive branch could pass ANY laws. I looked in that mirror and I don't see Obama's face...I see yours and it is quite red.


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## JQPublic1

Andylusion said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cuba is marxist socialism that doesn't allow a private sector and doesnt make respect human rights. HOw the fuck can anyone compare social democracy to it??
> 
> Pure capitalism has just as many problems.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually there is a thriving legitimate private sector in Cuba where people have set up their own businesses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is entirely true, but only in recent years under the right-wing capitalist reforms in recent years.
> 
> Before then, the entire country was entirely a trash can of poverty and decline, under left-wing socialist ideology.
Click to expand...


I am puzzled as to why most of the civilized world seems to extol the virtues of Castro, even when Cuban expatriates excoriate him mercilessly everywhere they go. They, and the American Taliban ( right wing white males) seem to be Cuba's most vociferous critics.


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## TyroneSlothrop

Two Thumbs said:


> Why do you hate freedom?  Are you deluded into thinking socialism is freedom? .


Why do you hate reality so....why do you try to pretend you know what the term "socialism" means...you are a Right wing trained parrot upchucking  what you are told...you did not know a thing about the 1966 Cuban Adjustment act..you know zilch about Cuba but that is not going to stop an entitled wing nut like you from spouting off ...


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## TyroneSlothrop

Andylusion said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cuba is marxist socialism that doesn't allow a private sector and doesnt make respect human rights. HOw the fuck can anyone compare social democracy to it??
> 
> Pure capitalism has just as many problems.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually there is a thriving legitimate private sector in Cuba where people have set up their own businesses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is entirely true, but only in recent years under the right-wing capitalist reforms in recent years.
> 
> Before then, the entire country was entirely a trash can of poverty and decline, under left-wing socialist ideology.
Click to expand...

You are another crazy ass fool...that is one of the single most stupid uninformed thing I have read LOL


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## TyroneSlothrop

*U.S. Military Wanted to Provoke War With Cuba - ABC News*


In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba.

*Code named Operation Northwoods, *the plans reportedly included the possible* assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.*

The plans were developed as ways to* trick the American public and the international community* into supporting a war to oust Cuba's then new leader, communist Fidel Castro.
*
*


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## Two Thumbs

JQPublic1 said:


> Votto said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cuba is marxist socialism that doesn't allow a private sector and doesnt make respect human rights. HOw the fuck can anyone compare social democracy to it??
> 
> Pure capitalism has just as many problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you had not noticed, the US recently passed the Patriot Act and NDAA that Obama signed into law enabling government to arrest its citizens without due process.  They also attack the private sector daily passing over 40,000 new laws and regulations every year.
> 
> Look in that mirror Barak Obama.
> 
> From what I hear, Obama is off to Cuba instead of going to Justice Scalia's funeral.  For the first time since Cuba turned to Marxist despotism a US president is visiting Cuba.
> 
> He must feel like he is going home again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are not tying Obama to the Patriot Act are you? A republican president signed THAT into law.  You continue with that ambiguous "they" to create your straw man
> to insinuate that the Obama administration is attacking the private sector by "passing 40,000 new laws and regulations each year." I wasn't aware that the executive branch could pass ANY laws. I looked in that mirror and I don't see Obama's face...I see yours and it is quite red.
Click to expand...

obama said he would get rid of it, promised to do so 8 years ago

instead, he signed it and made it more powerful.

it's a law with an expiration date, it has to be passed again and again.

so yea, it's also on obama


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## Two Thumbs

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you hate freedom?  Are you deluded into thinking socialism is freedom? .
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you hate reality so....why do you try to pretend you know what the term "socialism" means...you are a Right wing trained parrot upchucking  what you are told...you did not know a thing about the 1966 Cuban Adjustment act..you know zilch about Cuba but that is not going to stop an entitled wing nut like you from spouting off ...
Click to expand...

I know the word, I know the theory, but I also know what it is in action

you don't, you have now fucking idea how bad it really is, but hey, some people like being told what to do.

you want to be like cuba?  fucking move there

oh, it sucks giving up that much freedom?


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## TyroneSlothrop

*US acts of aggression against the Nation of Cuba*

*Bay of Pigs Invasion and the Alabama Air National Guard ...*


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## Two Thumbs

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *US acts of aggression against the Nation of Cuba*
> 
> *Bay of Pigs Invasion and the Alabama Air National Guard ...*


Wasn't that jfk?


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## Tommy Tainant

Andylusion said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cuba is marxist socialism that doesn't allow a private sector and doesnt make respect human rights. HOw the fuck can anyone compare social democracy to it??
> 
> Pure capitalism has just as many problems.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually there is a thriving legitimate private sector in Cuba where people have set up their own businesses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is entirely true, but only in recent years under the right-wing capitalist reforms in recent years.
> 
> Before then, the entire country was entirely a trash can of poverty and decline, under left-wing socialist ideology.
Click to expand...

Well their government hasnt changed. The BBC sent somebody there a while back and people were setting up restaurants and there was also a thriving housing market with estate agents and all their crap. I fear for Cuba. Access to US markets has not been an unalloyed joy for their neighbours.


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## TyroneSlothrop

Two Thumbs said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> *US acts of aggression against the Nation of Cuba*
> 
> *Bay of Pigs Invasion and the Alabama Air National Guard ...*
> 
> 
> 
> Wasn't that jfk?
Click to expand...

It was the Official US Government policy not JFK s policy  however to be historically accurate the Bay of Pigs Invasion was started under Eisenhower....Bay of Pigs was on 4/17/61...JFK Inaugurated on 1/20/61...


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## Two Thumbs

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> *US acts of aggression against the Nation of Cuba*
> 
> *Bay of Pigs Invasion and the Alabama Air National Guard ...*
> 
> 
> 
> Wasn't that jfk?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was the Official US Government policy not JFK s policy  however to be historically accurate the Bay of Pigs Invasion was started under Eisenhower....Bay of Pigs was on 4/17/61...JFK Inaugurated on 1/20/61...
Click to expand...

good lord

did you have to sharpen that razor to split that hair as finely as you did?

idiot, it was jfk that gave the go ahead, the failure of it and the lives lost are on him


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## TyroneSlothrop

On October 6. 1976 a Cuban Aviation flight near Barbados was the victim of a terrorist bomb placed there by CIA agent Luis POisada Carriles.....Posada Carriles , an International fugitive from Justice lives today in Coral Gables Florida protected by the US Government from demands he be deported to face Justice 
*Cubana Flight 455: Remembering the Victims of US*


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## TyroneSlothrop

Two Thumbs said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> *US acts of aggression against the Nation of Cuba*
> 
> *Bay of Pigs Invasion and the Alabama Air National Guard ...*
> 
> 
> 
> Wasn't that jfk?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was the Official US Government policy not JFK s policy  however to be historically accurate the Bay of Pigs Invasion was started under Eisenhower....Bay of Pigs was on 4/17/61...JFK Inaugurated on 1/20/61...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good lord
> 
> did you have to sharpen that razor to split that hair as finely as you did?
> 
> idiot, it was jfk that gave the go ahead, the failure of it and the lives lost are on him
Click to expand...

*The Cuban people defeated the US hired mercenaries/terrorist  the "Enemy combatants" * I am glad they got their ass whipped.... I am glad the Alabama pilots paid n for what they did...they are buried in Cuba...


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## TyroneSlothrop

Two Thumbs said:


> idiot, it was jfk that gave the go ahead, the failure of it and the lives lost are on him


*The Invasion of Cuba was an act of Terror and Infamy by a bully Government not something to be proud of*


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## Two Thumbs

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> *US acts of aggression against the Nation of Cuba*
> 
> *Bay of Pigs Invasion and the Alabama Air National Guard ...*
> 
> 
> 
> Wasn't that jfk?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was the Official US Government policy not JFK s policy  however to be historically accurate the Bay of Pigs Invasion was started under Eisenhower....Bay of Pigs was on 4/17/61...JFK Inaugurated on 1/20/61...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good lord
> 
> did you have to sharpen that razor to split that hair as finely as you did?
> 
> idiot, it was jfk that gave the go ahead, the failure of it and the lives lost are on him
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Cuban people defeated the US hired mercenaries/terrorist  the "Enemy combatants" * I am glad they got their ass whipped.... I am glad the Alabama pilots paid n for what they did...they are buried in Cuba...
Click to expand...

I hope there's a god, so there's a heaven and hell, so you end up in hell.

I'd be glad to find out that such a fucking degenerate got what he had coming.


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## Two Thumbs

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> idiot, it was jfk that gave the go ahead, the failure of it and the lives lost are on him
> 
> 
> 
> *The Invasion of Cuba was an act of Terror and Infamy by a bully Government not something to be proud of*
Click to expand...

but jfk is the leftist #2 Pres of all times, right behind that vile fuck fdr


keep that in mind as you vote for more leftist filth


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## TyroneSlothrop

Two Thumbs said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> idiot, it was jfk that gave the go ahead, the failure of it and the lives lost are on him
> 
> 
> 
> *The Invasion of Cuba was an act of Terror and Infamy by a bully Government not something to be proud of*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but jfk is the leftist #2 Pres of all times, right behind that vile fuck fdr
> 
> 
> keep that in mind as you vote for more leftist filth
Click to expand...

*JFK is a leftist to nut bag know nothing blow hard goons like you...you talk so much shit you should have a toilet on your face mouth breathing jack ass*

*The Anti-Empire Report #134 – November 19th, 2014 – William Blum*
Each fall the UN vote is a welcome reminder that the world has not _completely_ lost its senses and that the American empire does not _completely_ control the opinion of other governments.

*Speaking before the General Assembly before last year’s vote, Cuban Foreign Minister Bruno Rodriguez declared: “The economic damages accumulated after half a century as a result of the implementation of the blockade amount to $1.126 trillion.”* He added that the blockade “has been further tightened under President Obama’s administration”, some 30 US and foreign entities being hit with $2.446 billion in fines due to their interaction with Cuba.
*
However, the American envoy, Ronald Godard, in an appeal to other countries to oppose the resolution, said:

The international community … cannot in good conscience ignore the ease and frequency with which the Cuban regime silences critics, disrupts peaceful assembly, impedes independent journalism and, despite positive reforms, continues to prevent some Cubans from leaving or returning to the island. The Cuban government continues its tactics of politically motivated detentions, harassment and police violence against Cuban citizens. Democracy Now!, October 30, 2013">

So there you have it. That is why Cuba must be punished. One can only guess what Mr. Godard would respond if told that more than 7,000 people were arrested in the United States during the Occupy Movement’s first 8 months of protest in 2011-12 Huffingfton Post, May 3, 2012"> ; that many of them were physically abused by the police; and that their encampments were violently destroyed.

Does Mr. Godard have access to any news media? Hardly a day passes in America without a police officer shooting to death an unarmed person.
*


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## Two Thumbs

If you didn't use bold and large print, I'd read that, but it's hard on my eyes to read such childish gibberish.

jfk got thousands of American killed in VN
he got many killed in Cuba
Wilson got hundreds of thousands killed going to WW1
fdr did the same in WW2

you leftist filth have so much America blood on your hands you should all rot in hell for keeping that party alive


----------



## xband

alpine said:


> Cuba: Why I Defend Socialism
> 
> "I am a Cuban who has lived for 76 years, therefore I know full well how life was before the revolution, having experienced it directly and indirectly.
> 
> As a result, it hurts me to read so many aspersions cast upon a government that fights tooth and nail to provide us a better life. If it hasn’t fully been able to do so, this is because of the many obstacles that have been put in its way."
> 
> 
> 
> Writer compares Cuba to Bolivia and Venezuela, and I think these examples could be extended by others, which Cuba is doing fairly well against. Especially considering the fact that; Cuba was blockaded by the Super Power of this planet for long and lacked the natural resources.
> 
> Tough job, good work, imo....


I have never been to Cuba but my parents were there before Castro and before I was born.. Armando, a personal friend of my parents may or may not been part of Batista and Castro took his shoe factory with nothing in return but Armando escaped and found safe refuge in the US. I met Armando in our rural country home when I was ten years old and he gave me a little Cuban flag that I still have to this very day..


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Cuba in the Cross-Hairs: A Near Half-Century of Terror, by*

*Cuba in the Cross-Hairs: A Near Half-Century of Terror*
*Noam Chomsky*

*Excerpted fromHegemony or Survival, Metropolitan Books, 2003*

The Batista dictatorship was overthrown in January 1959 by Castro’s guerrilla forces. In March, the National Security Council (NSC) considered means to institute regime change. In May, the CIA began to arm guerrillas inside Cuba. “During the Winter of 1959-1960, there was a significant increase in CIA-supervised bombing and incendiary raids piloted by exiled Cubans” based in the US. We need not tarry on what the US or its clients would do under such circumstances. Cuba, however, did not respond with violent actions within the United States for revenge or deterrence. Rather, it followed the procedure required by international law. In July 1960, Cuba called on the UN for help, providing the Security Council with records of some twenty bombings, including names of pilots, plane registration numbers, unexploded bombs, and other specific details, alleging considerable damage and casualties and calling for resolution of the conflict through diplomatic channels. US Ambassador Henry Cabot Lodge responded by giving his “assurance [that] the United States has no aggressive purpose against Cuba.” Four months before, in March 1960, his government had made a formal decision in secret to overthrow the Castro government, and preparations for the Bay of Pigs invasion were well advanced.

...........................*.Eisenhower’s March 1960 plan called for the overthrow of Castro in favor of a regime “more devoted to the true interests of the Cuban people and more acceptable to the U.S.,” including support for “military operation on the island” and “development of an adequate paramilitary force outside of Cuba.” Intelligence reported that popular support for Castro was high, but the US would determine the “true interests of the Cuban people.*


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Two Thumbs said:


> If you didn't use bold and large print, I'd read that, but it's hard on my eyes to read such childish gibberish.
> 
> jfk got thousands of American killed in VN
> he got many killed in Cuba
> Wilson got hundreds of thousands killed going to WW1
> fdr did the same in WW2
> 
> you leftist filth have so much America blood on your hands you should all rot in hell for keeping that party alive



*Fuck you worthless mouth breathing asshole ....the US is an Empire a war like Empire you fuck head..,hysterical right wing know nothing  creep*


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Two Thumbs said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> idiot, it was jfk that gave the go ahead, the failure of it and the lives lost are on him
> 
> 
> 
> *The Invasion of Cuba was an act of Terror and Infamy by a bully Government not something to be proud of*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but jfk is the leftist #2 Pres of all times, right behind that vile fuck fdr
> 
> 
> keep that in mind as you vote for more leftist filth
Click to expand...

JFK is as leftist as Richard Nixon you are a fucking moron   the # 1 fucking moron I have encountered this morning fuck you  worthless asshole


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

How the embargo began:* On April 6, 1960, Lester D. Mallory, US Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs,* wrote in an internal memorandum: *“The majority of Cubans support Castro *… The only foreseeable means of alienating internal support is through disenchantment and disaffection based on economic dissatisfaction and hardship. … every possible means should be undertaken promptly to weaken the economic life of Cuba.” Mallory proposed “a line of action which … makes the greatest inroads in denying money and supplies to Cuba, to decrease monetary and real wages, *to bring about hunger, desperation and overthrow of government.”*


----------



## Two Thumbs

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you didn't use bold and large print, I'd read that, but it's hard on my eyes to read such childish gibberish.
> 
> jfk got thousands of American killed in VN
> he got many killed in Cuba
> Wilson got hundreds of thousands killed going to WW1
> fdr did the same in WW2
> 
> you leftist filth have so much America blood on your hands you should all rot in hell for keeping that party alive
> 
> 
> 
> *Fuck you worthless mouth breathing asshole ....the US is an Empire a war like Empire you fuck head..,hysterical right wing know nothing  creep*
Click to expand...

childish big bold words

you mad bro?

yea, you mad, b/c you live in a country you hate but are to scared to move out.

fucking mad pussy, that' what you are.


----------



## Two Thumbs

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> idiot, it was jfk that gave the go ahead, the failure of it and the lives lost are on him
> 
> 
> 
> *The Invasion of Cuba was an act of Terror and Infamy by a bully Government not something to be proud of*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but jfk is the leftist #2 Pres of all times, right behind that vile fuck fdr
> 
> 
> keep that in mind as you vote for more leftist filth
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> JFK is as leftist as Richard Nixon you are a fucking moron   the # 1 fucking moron I have encountered this morning fuck you  worthless asshole
Click to expand...

jfk sent us to war in VN, got Americans killed, but he's your hero b/c some media outlet told you he was great.

sucks to be dumb, not that I'd know, but it looks like it hurts


----------



## xband

Two Thumbs said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> idiot, it was jfk that gave the go ahead, the failure of it and the lives lost are on him
> 
> 
> 
> *The Invasion of Cuba was an act of Terror and Infamy by a bully Government not something to be proud of*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but jfk is the leftist #2 Pres of all times, right behind that vile fuck fdr
> 
> 
> keep that in mind as you vote for more leftist filth
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> JFK is as leftist as Richard Nixon you are a fucking moron   the # 1 fucking moron I have encountered this morning fuck you  worthless asshole
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> jfk sent us to war in VN, got Americans killed, but he's your hero b/c some media outlet told you he was great.
> 
> sucks to be dumb, not that I'd know, but it looks like it hurts
Click to expand...


JFK sent us to war in VN and LBJ escalated it. The Paris Peace Talks ended VN under RMN.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

xband said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> idiot, it was jfk that gave the go ahead, the failure of it and the lives lost are on him
> 
> 
> 
> *The Invasion of Cuba was an act of Terror and Infamy by a bully Government not something to be proud of*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but jfk is the leftist #2 Pres of all times, right behind that vile fuck fdr
> 
> 
> keep that in mind as you vote for more leftist filth
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> JFK is as leftist as Richard Nixon you are a fucking moron   the # 1 fucking moron I have encountered this morning fuck you  worthless asshole
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> jfk sent us to war in VN, got Americans killed, but he's your hero b/c some media outlet told you he was great.
> 
> sucks to be dumb, not that I'd know, but it looks like it hurts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> JFK sent us to war in VN and LBJ escalated it. The Paris Peace Talks ended VN under RMN.
Click to expand...


*Read history get informed don't mindlessly tap keyboards*
VN would have voted to unify under the Leadership of Vietnamese Patriot Ho Chi Minh... Eisenhower prevented that and set the stage for the war of liberation .... Eisenhower therefore has a share  responsibility for what happened subsequently as to JFK
“If the scheduled national elections are held in July 1956, and if the Viet Minh does not prejudice its political prospects, the Viet Minh will almost certainly win,L the CIA notes. [Kolko, 1985, pp. 84] And *US President Dwight Eisenhower admits, “I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, a possible 80 per cent of the population would have voted for the communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader.”* [Eisenhower, 1994, pp. 372]
...as to Richard Nixon...he prolonged the war four long years by interfering with LBJ efforts to end the war... *Do you have  any idea how many US soldiers died during those 4 years  who would not have died if Nixon was not a traitor ?*this is well documented:
*The Lyndon Johnson tapes: Richard Nixon's 'treason' - BBC *
*George Will Confirms Nixon's Vietnam Treason *
*Yes, Nixon Scuttled the Vietnam Peace Talks - Politico*


----------



## Votto

JQPublic1 said:


> Votto said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cuba is marxist socialism that doesn't allow a private sector and doesnt make respect human rights. HOw the fuck can anyone compare social democracy to it??
> 
> Pure capitalism has just as many problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you had not noticed, the US recently passed the Patriot Act and NDAA that Obama signed into law enabling government to arrest its citizens without due process.  They also attack the private sector daily passing over 40,000 new laws and regulations every year.
> 
> Look in that mirror Barak Obama.
> 
> From what I hear, Obama is off to Cuba instead of going to Justice Scalia's funeral.  For the first time since Cuba turned to Marxist despotism a US president is visiting Cuba.
> 
> He must feel like he is going home again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are not tying Obama to the Patriot Act are you? A republican president signed THAT into law.  You continue with that ambiguous "they" to create your straw man
> to insinuate that the Obama administration is attacking the private sector by "passing 40,000 new laws and regulations each year." I wasn't aware that the executive branch could pass ANY laws. I looked in that mirror and I don't see Obama's face...I see yours and it is quite red.
Click to expand...


What is sad is you don't recognize that the President is an empty suit.  Both parties have put the police state at our very doors through such policies.  I make no real distinction between Bush and Obama, they run things pretty much the same.  They ignore continued ballooning debt, illegal immigration, and laws such as the Patriot Act and NDAA that treat us more like the enemy that citizens.  And lastly, they both continued wars around the world.  Enough is enough.

Of course, in your tunnel vision Obama is good and Bush is bad.  Whatever.

It is also sad that you don't see laws and regulations as restricting freedom.  Equally troubling is your inability to understand that regulations are just as good as a law, the only difference being, regulations are much easier to pass because they bypass the Constitutional process of it being passed by Congress.  That was the Executive Branch can begin to implement laws via regulation that are passed by a hand full of non elected bureaucrats who don't have to worry about being elected after passing their dictates.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Votto said:


> It is also sad that you don't see laws and regulations as restricting freedom. .




whenever I come to a red light on my way to somewhere I always say look at this traffic law preventing me from the freedom to cross the intersection ...fucking Gubbiment bastards


----------



## Votto

*We crossed the ocean on this raft because we were so desperate  to tell you how great our leader Castro is and how much we love socialism.*


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Votto said:


> *We crossed the ocean on this raft because we were so desperate *




Hey it looks like the plan worked:



How the embargo began:* On April 6, 1960, Lester D. Mallory, US Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs,* wrote in an internal memorandum: *“The majority of Cubans support Castro *… The only foreseeable means of alienating internal support is through disenchantment and disaffection based on economic dissatisfaction and hardship. … every possible means should be undertaken promptly to weaken the economic life of Cuba.” Mallory proposed “a line of action which … makes the greatest inroads in denying money and supplies to Cuba, to decrease monetary and real wages, *to bring about hunger, desperation and overthrow of government.”*


----------



## xband

Votto said:


> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Votto said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cuba is marxist socialism that doesn't allow a private sector and doesnt make respect human rights. HOw the fuck can anyone compare social democracy to it??
> 
> Pure capitalism has just as many problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you had not noticed, the US recently passed the Patriot Act and NDAA that Obama signed into law enabling government to arrest its citizens without due process.  They also attack the private sector daily passing over 40,000 new laws and regulations every year.
> 
> Look in that mirror Barak Obama.
> 
> From what I hear, Obama is off to Cuba instead of going to Justice Scalia's funeral.  For the first time since Cuba turned to Marxist despotism a US president is visiting Cuba.
> 
> He must feel like he is going home again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are not tying Obama to the Patriot Act are you? A republican president signed THAT into law.  You continue with that ambiguous "they" to create your straw man
> to insinuate that the Obama administration is attacking the private sector by "passing 40,000 new laws and regulations each year." I wasn't aware that the executive branch could pass ANY laws. I looked in that mirror and I don't see Obama's face...I see yours and it is quite red.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is sad is you don't recognize that the President is an empty suit.  Both parties have put the police state at our very doors through such policies.  I make no real distinction between Bush and Obama, they run things pretty much the same.  They ignore continued ballooning debt, illegal immigration, and laws such as the Patriot Act and NDAA that treat us more like the enemy that citizens.  And lastly, they both continued wars around the world.  Enough is enough.
> 
> Of course, in your tunnel vision Obama is good and Bush is bad.  Whatever.
> 
> It is also sad that you don't see laws and regulations as restricting freedom.  Equally troubling is your inability to understand that regulations are just as good as a law, the only difference being, regulations are much easier to pass because they bypass the Constitutional process of it being passed by Congress.  That was the Executive Branch can begin to implement laws via regulation that are passed by a hand full of non elected bureaucrats who don't have to worry about being elected after passing their dictates.
Click to expand...

Make pot legal across board. It grows wild anyway and only makes  people get the munchies. The high only lasts for four hours at the most and if you can't get up your lazy behind and go to work; survival of the specifies by the fittest.


----------



## Andylusion

Tommy Tainant said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cuba is marxist socialism that doesn't allow a private sector and doesnt make respect human rights. HOw the fuck can anyone compare social democracy to it??
> 
> Pure capitalism has just as many problems.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually there is a thriving legitimate private sector in Cuba where people have set up their own businesses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is entirely true, but only in recent years under the right-wing capitalist reforms in recent years.
> 
> Before then, the entire country was entirely a trash can of poverty and decline, under left-wing socialist ideology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well their government hasnt changed. The BBC sent somebody there a while back and people were setting up restaurants and there was also a thriving housing market with estate agents and all their crap. I fear for Cuba. Access to US markets has not been an unalloyed joy for their neighbours.
Click to expand...


Tommy... come on man...    I have been active on the forums since 1999.   I could not even begin to count the number of times I have heard that the US embargo preventing access to US markets, is the source of all the problems in the Cuban economy.    They have been blaming the US for all their problems since the 1960s.

Now after all these years, and we're starting to open markets up to Cuba, now you are telling me that access to US markets is harming Cuba?

Can't you left-wingers get together and figure out your ideology on this?   We can't be the cause of all Cuba's problems because we placed an embargo on them, AND be the cause of all their problems by opening markets to them.

This is a logical contradiction.


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Still haven't seen or heard of one single American Progressive who hopped on an inner tube to head for Fidel and the Workers Paradise.

Not a single one


----------



## JQPublic1

Two Thumbs said:


> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Votto said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cuba is marxist socialism that doesn't allow a private sector and doesnt make respect human rights. HOw the fuck can anyone compare social democracy to it??
> 
> Pure capitalism has just as many problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you had not noticed, the US recently passed the Patriot Act and NDAA that Obama signed into law enabling government to arrest its citizens without due process.  They also attack the private sector daily passing over 40,000 new laws and regulations every year.
> 
> Look in that mirror Barak Obama.
> 
> From what I hear, Obama is off to Cuba instead of going to Justice Scalia's funeral.  For the first time since Cuba turned to Marxist despotism a US president is visiting Cuba.
> 
> He must feel like he is going home again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are not tying Obama to the Patriot Act are you? A republican president signed THAT into law.  You continue with that ambiguous "they" to create your straw man
> to insinuate that the Obama administration is attacking the private sector by "passing 40,000 new laws and regulations each year." I wasn't aware that the executive branch could pass ANY laws. I looked in that mirror and I don't see Obama's face...I see yours and it is quite red.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> obama said he would get rid of it, promised to do so 8 years ago
> 
> instead, he signed it and made it more powerful.
> 
> it's a law with an expiration date, it has to be passed again and again.
> 
> so yea, it's also on obama
Click to expand...


I will have to research that but if what you say is true, it isn't just Obama, the republican heavy Congress has to pass it over  and over for the president to sign it..RIGHT? That makes the cyclic renewal bi-partisan. So why are you  blaming Obama only?


----------



## Two Thumbs

JQPublic1 said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Votto said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cuba is marxist socialism that doesn't allow a private sector and doesnt make respect human rights. HOw the fuck can anyone compare social democracy to it??
> 
> Pure capitalism has just as many problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you had not noticed, the US recently passed the Patriot Act and NDAA that Obama signed into law enabling government to arrest its citizens without due process.  They also attack the private sector daily passing over 40,000 new laws and regulations every year.
> 
> Look in that mirror Barak Obama.
> 
> From what I hear, Obama is off to Cuba instead of going to Justice Scalia's funeral.  For the first time since Cuba turned to Marxist despotism a US president is visiting Cuba.
> 
> He must feel like he is going home again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are not tying Obama to the Patriot Act are you? A republican president signed THAT into law.  You continue with that ambiguous "they" to create your straw man
> to insinuate that the Obama administration is attacking the private sector by "passing 40,000 new laws and regulations each year." I wasn't aware that the executive branch could pass ANY laws. I looked in that mirror and I don't see Obama's face...I see yours and it is quite red.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> obama said he would get rid of it, promised to do so 8 years ago
> 
> instead, he signed it and made it more powerful.
> 
> it's a law with an expiration date, it has to be passed again and again.
> 
> so yea, it's also on obama
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I will have to research that but if what you say is true, it isn't just Obama, the republican heavy Congress has to pass it over  and over for the president to sign it..RIGHT? That makes the cyclic renewal bi-partisan. So why are you  blaming Obama only?
Click to expand...

It's public knowledge

and I never blamed just obama, I corrected your false accusation that it was just bush, oh and, with a heavy dem congress, since you need to pass obamas blame around, but no Bushs


----------



## JQPublic1

Tommy Tainant said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cuba is marxist socialism that doesn't allow a private sector and doesnt make respect human rights. HOw the fuck can anyone compare social democracy to it??
> 
> Pure capitalism has just as many problems.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually there is a thriving legitimate private sector in Cuba where people have set up their own businesses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is entirely true, but only in recent years under the right-wing capitalist reforms in recent years.
> 
> Before then, the entire country was entirely a trash can of poverty and decline, under left-wing socialist ideology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well their government hasnt changed. The BBC sent somebody there a while back and people were setting up restaurants and there was also a thriving housing market with estate agents and all their crap. I fear for Cuba. Access to US markets has not been an unalloyed joy for their neighbours.
Click to expand...

 You've hit the nail on the head. The IMF and World Bank agents are just salivating with eagerness to get their hands on Cuba and Cuban resources. Castro and his brother  are smart enough to see the usurious trap, but after they are gone...Oh OH.. Cuba may turn into another Haiti....stripped of it's resources and any dignity it had.


----------



## Andylusion

JQPublic1 said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cuba is marxist socialism that doesn't allow a private sector and doesnt make respect human rights. HOw the fuck can anyone compare social democracy to it??
> 
> Pure capitalism has just as many problems.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually there is a thriving legitimate private sector in Cuba where people have set up their own businesses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is entirely true, but only in recent years under the right-wing capitalist reforms in recent years.
> 
> Before then, the entire country was entirely a trash can of poverty and decline, under left-wing socialist ideology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well their government hasnt changed. The BBC sent somebody there a while back and people were setting up restaurants and there was also a thriving housing market with estate agents and all their crap. I fear for Cuba. Access to US markets has not been an unalloyed joy for their neighbours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've hit the nail on the head. The IMF and World Bank agents are just salivating with eagerness to get their hands on Cuba and Cuban resources. Castro and his brother  are smart enough to see the usurious trap, but after they are gone...Oh OH.. Cuba may turn into another Haiti....stripped of it's resources and any dignity it had.
Click to expand...


Do you realize that nothing has any value, if you don't sell it?     Russia for decades had natural resources that were never used, never collected, never processed, never sold, and stayed right where they were.

And the soviet union collasped because why?   The IMF and World Bank didn't take their resources did they?

Cuba was in object poverty.   Still is for the most part, after 50 years of no one taking their natural resources?

You would rather doom those people to impoverishment for eternity, than see them develop.   Pathetic.  You people on the left keep claiming you stand for the poor, and then do everything you can possibly do to keep them poor.


----------



## Tommy Tainant

There is a long dark history of western democracies raping third world nations. I hope that it doesnt happen in Cuba.


----------



## JQPublic1

Two Thumbs said:


> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Votto said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cuba is marxist socialism that doesn't allow a private sector and doesnt make respect human rights. HOw the fuck can anyone compare social democracy to it??
> 
> Pure capitalism has just as many problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you had not noticed, the US recently passed the Patriot Act and NDAA that Obama signed into law enabling government to arrest its citizens without due process.  They also attack the private sector daily passing over 40,000 new laws and regulations every year.
> 
> Look in that mirror Barak Obama.
> 
> From what I hear, Obama is off to Cuba instead of going to Justice Scalia's funeral.  For the first time since Cuba turned to Marxist despotism a US president is visiting Cuba.
> 
> He must feel like he is going home again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are not tying Obama to the Patriot Act are you? A republican president signed THAT into law.  You continue with that ambiguous "they" to create your straw man
> to insinuate that the Obama administration is attacking the private sector by "passing 40,000 new laws and regulations each year." I wasn't aware that the executive branch could pass ANY laws. I looked in that mirror and I don't see Obama's face...I see yours and it is quite red.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> obama said he would get rid of it, promised to do so 8 years ago
> 
> instead, he signed it and made it more powerful.
> 
> it's a law with an expiration date, it has to be passed again and again.
> 
> so yea, it's also on obama
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I will have to research that but if what you say is true, it isn't just Obama, the republican heavy Congress has to pass it over  and over for the president to sign it..RIGHT? That makes the cyclic renewal bi-partisan. So why are you  blaming Obama only?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's public knowledge
> 
> and I never blamed just obama, I corrected your false accusation that it was just bush, oh and, with a heavy dem congress, since you need to pass obamas blame around, but no Bushs
Click to expand...

Of course it is public knowledge. But public knowledge isn't always accurate.  On something like this I compare several credible sources and draw my conclusions from that to make an in depth analysis.

The post that started this line of conversation was not directed to you at all. Votto was the intended target after he seemed to insinuate that Obama was the initial signatory  of the Patriot Act.  You can't "correct" me on that because what I said is true. To interject and say YOU never blamed Obama is disingenuous since I was  initially responding to another poster who DID blame Obama.


----------



## Andylusion

Tommy Tainant said:


> There is a long dark history of western democracies raping third world nations. I hope that it doesnt happen in Cuba.


In what way?  Example?


----------



## JQPublic1

Andylusion said:


> Do you realize that nothing has any value, if you don't sell it? Russia for decades had natural resources that were never used, never collected, never processed, never sold, and stayed right where they were.



That is where "conservative's" views and philosophy fails. You place the highest value on material gains and profit. There are other more profound treasures manifested in love of humanity and reciprocal concern for one's fellow man.
Cubans are healthy , have food and shelter, and camaraderie despite attempts by  factions within this country to imperil all of that!



Andylusion said:


> Cuba was in object poverty. Still is for the most part, after 50 years of no one taking their natural resources?


 I don't see that poverty in Cuba being as stark as that in  Appalachia or in many of our large metropolitan centers. I don't see images of people living on the streets scarred by drugs and gun violence or lack of insurance.




Andylusion said:


> You would rather doom those people to impoverishment for eternity, than see them develop. Pathetic. You people on the left keep claiming you stand for the poor, and then do everything you can possibly do to keep them poor.



Do yo live in a place where you don't see any of the 40 million impoverished Americans that dot our bucolic and urban landscapes. Perhaps to you they are mere apparitions  unworthy of mentioning. failures who didn't have what takes to make it on their own.  IMHO they would be better off in Cuba!


----------



## Andylusion

JQPublic1 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you realize that nothing has any value, if you don't sell it? Russia for decades had natural resources that were never used, never collected, never processed, never sold, and stayed right where they were.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is where "conservative's" views and philosophy fails. You place the highest value on material gains and profit. There are other more profound treasures manifested in love of humanity and reciprocal concern for one's fellow man.
> Cubans are healthy , have food and shelter, and camaraderie despite attempts by  factions within this country to imperil all of that!
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cuba was in object poverty. Still is for the most part, after 50 years of no one taking their natural resources?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see that poverty in Cuba being as stark as that in  Appalachia or in many of our large metropolitan centers. I don't see images of people living on the streets scarred by drugs and gun violence or lack of insurance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> You would rather doom those people to impoverishment for eternity, than see them develop. Pathetic. You people on the left keep claiming you stand for the poor, and then do everything you can possibly do to keep them poor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do yo live in a place where you don't see any of the 40 million impoverished Americans that dot our bucolic and urban landscapes. Perhaps to you they are mere apparitions  unworthy of mentioning. failures who didn't have what takes to make it on their own.  IMHO they would be better off in Cuba!
Click to expand...


You are coming across as the most extreme version of ignorant.   Yeah, crime is lower in a police state where 'rights' are ignored.  This is shocking to who?

If you think Cuban have not been in absolute object poverty, it is only because you are ignorant.

And you people are unbelievably ignorant.   



 

 

I could post you a million pictures that every informed person knows about Cuba.  You people are just Micheal Morons.  Don't know jack about what you talk about.

Hospitals without ambulance service.... BUT AT LEAST THEY DON'T NEED INSURANCE!  





But at least they don't need insurance!

The worst, and poorest in America, lives a life of luxury compared to most of Cuba.   

They can't even get Aspirin, and you are complaining about lacking insurance?


----------



## Andylusion

It's funny, every time some idiot tells me Cuba is a workers paradise.... I do some quick research, only about 1 hour this time, and find even more evidence of just how insane it is there...


Massive food shortages.  All the state owned socialized 'for the people' farms, provide barely 20% of the food for the population.   80% of Cuba's food is imported even to this day, which of course is impossible because these morons claim we have a blockade which prevents Cuba from getting food.   Right? 

The average wage in Cuba is $15 a month.

This is another reason why I claim the entire leftist ideology is an ideology of spoiled brats.    If you spoil your kids until they are rotten to the core, they will end up leftists.    Here we are people whining and complaining about "fight for $15", so they can earn $15 an hour to flip a burger over on a grill, and in Cuba, $15 is how much they earn in a month.   The minimum wage burger flipper in America, is like a the life of a top 1% in Cuba.

The opening view at 14 seconds, look in the lower right, you'll see a green front building, side facing the left.  But the side of the building facing the camera, is white.... look at it closely....  it's not painted white.... That side of the building collapsed.  That's the inner wall of the building.   The rest is boarded up.

People LIVE there.





In a country with a massive housing shortage, buildings have been left to decay so badly, right in the middle of Havana, that TREES are growing out of the building.

This is the socialist reality.  This is where left-wing ideology leads to.   This is the misery and impoverishment, and hopelessness of Bernie Sanders, and all the rest of them.


----------



## JQPublic1

Andylusion said:


> The worst, and poorest in America, lives a life of luxury compared to most of Cuba.



That is a lie and you know it!



Andylusion said:


> They can't even get Aspirin, and you are complaining about lacking insurance?



You say they can't get aspirin but I say that Cuba;s pharmaceutical productions has benefitted the world and has been instrumental in keeping their  economy alive. Not only that, Cuba has  a top notch medical school that trains doctors from all over the world providing free tuition, room and board .The only requirement is that the graduates  donate their services to underserved countries,

Foolish mortal, I feast upon your ignorance, Behold, the Christ-like altruism conveyed by Castro to the  developing world...free of charge... The USA has nothing to compare to this: I think Jesus would approve of Castro far more than anyone in our government.

The mission of ELAM is to make competent and cooperative doctors with the degree of MD (doctor of medicine), the same degree which is offered to medical graduates all over the Americas. The Latin American School of Medicine is officially recognized by the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG) and the World Health Organization. It is fully accredited by the Medical Board of California, which has the strictest US standards — which means that qualified US graduates of the Latin American School of Medicine are eligible to apply for residency placements in any state of the US.

It is preferred that ELAM students come from the poorest communities with the intent of returning to practice in those areas in their countries. Initially only enrolling students from Latin America and the Caribbean, the school has become open to applicants from impoverished and/or medically underserved areas in the United States and Africa. As part of Cuban international cooperation, ELAM is also training 800 medical doctors from Timor-Leste. [13]

Preference is given to applicants who are financially needy and/or people of color who show the most commitment to working in their poor communities.[4][5][10][14]

Final admissions decisions are made by a committee representing ELAM's faculty and the Cuban Ministry of Public Health.[6]

No aspirin? Who needs it when yo make your own replacement!

http://www.globalresearch.ca/cuba-develops-four-cancer-vaccines-ignored-by-the-media/5390303


----------



## JQPublic1

Andylusion said:


> In a country with a massive housing shortage, buildings have been left to decay so badly, right in the middle of Havana, that TREES are growing out of the building.



DId you notice how clean the streets in those pictures ar?. Even among  dilapidation and flaking decor, cleanliness is evidence that the minds of the people living there are not corrupted by drugs  and indifference. That signifies community pride.


----------



## alpine

Andylusion said:


> It's funny, every time some idiot tells me Cuba is a workers paradise.... I do some quick research, only about 1 hour this time, and find even more evidence of just how insane it is there...
> 
> 
> Massive food shortages.  All the state owned socialized 'for the people' farms, provide barely 20% of the food for the population.   80% of Cuba's food is imported even to this day, which of course is impossible because these morons claim we have a blockade which prevents Cuba from getting food.   Right?
> 
> The average wage in Cuba is $15 a month.
> 
> This is another reason why I claim the entire leftist ideology is an ideology of spoiled brats.    If you spoil your kids until they are rotten to the core, they will end up leftists.    Here we are people whining and complaining about "fight for $15", so they can earn $15 an hour to flip a burger over on a grill, and in Cuba, $15 is how much they earn in a month.   The minimum wage burger flipper in America, is like a the life of a top 1% in Cuba.
> 
> The opening view at 14 seconds, look in the lower right, you'll see a green front building, side facing the left.  But the side of the building facing the camera, is white.... look at it closely....  it's not painted white.... That side of the building collapsed.  That's the inner wall of the building.   The rest is boarded up.
> 
> People LIVE there.
> 
> View attachment 64200
> 
> In a country with a massive housing shortage, buildings have been left to decay so badly, right in the middle of Havana, that TREES are growing out of the building.
> 
> This is the socialist reality.  This is where left-wing ideology leads to.   This is the misery and impoverishment, and hopelessness of Bernie Sanders, and all the rest of them.




I am watching that video, and I am not seeing something....

Ahhh; People are not trying to chop each others heads on the streets.

Thats pretty good achievement, on this planet, relatively speaking.

It seems to me like, socialism was not that bad after all, for Cuban people......


----------



## Andylusion

JQPublic1 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> The worst, and poorest in America, lives a life of luxury compared to most of Cuba.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is a lie and you know it!
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> They can't even get Aspirin, and you are complaining about lacking insurance?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You say they can't get aspirin but I say that Cuba;s pharmaceutical productions has benefitted the world and has been instrumental in keeping their  economy alive. Not only that, Cuba has  a top notch medical school that trains doctors from all over the world providing free tuition, room and board .The only requirement is that the graduates  donate their services to underserved countries,
> 
> Foolish mortal, I feast upon your ignorance, Behold, the Christ-like altruism conveyed by Castro to the  developing world...free of charge... The USA has nothing to compare to this: I think Jesus would approve of Castro far more than anyone in our government.
> 
> The mission of ELAM is to make competent and cooperative doctors with the degree of MD (doctor of medicine), the same degree which is offered to medical graduates all over the Americas. The Latin American School of Medicine is officially recognized by the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG) and the World Health Organization. It is fully accredited by the Medical Board of California, which has the strictest US standards — which means that qualified US graduates of the Latin American School of Medicine are eligible to apply for residency placements in any state of the US.
> 
> It is preferred that ELAM students come from the poorest communities with the intent of returning to practice in those areas in their countries. Initially only enrolling students from Latin America and the Caribbean, the school has become open to applicants from impoverished and/or medically underserved areas in the United States and Africa. As part of Cuban international cooperation, ELAM is also training 800 medical doctors from Timor-Leste. [13]
> 
> Preference is given to applicants who are financially needy and/or people of color who show the most commitment to working in their poor communities.[4][5][10][14]
> 
> Final admissions decisions are made by a committee representing ELAM's faculty and the Cuban Ministry of Public Health.[6]
> 
> No aspirin? Who needs it when yo make your own replacement!
> 
> http://www.globalresearch.ca/cuba-develops-four-cancer-vaccines-ignored-by-the-media/5390303
Click to expand...


You can't even grasp what you are saying....

Yes, Cuba did develop a vaccine, that they are going to SELL FOR PROFIT, to the rest of the world.

Now think about that......     The Cuban government, taxed it's people...... to pay for a drug that benefits us.   People that are poor, and impoverished, living in homes that are crumbling to the ground, that can't barely buy food, earning $15 a MONTH...........    Those people, are taxed, to pay for a vaccine that they are going to sell to *US*.

And think about training doctors to work in the US, and earn money in the US, and that training is paid for by whom?   By poor impoverished Cubans earning $15 a MONTH, so that we can have doctors here in the US?   And you think this is good?

It's funny, because you call it exploitation for Americans to sell goods to Cubans, and for Cubans to sell natural resources to Americans.   That's exploitation in your book.

But taxing the crap out of impoverished Cubans, to train doctors WHO THEN LEAVE... and treat us in America.... that's NOT exploitation?   Really??   You people a freak stupid.


----------



## Andylusion

alpine said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny, every time some idiot tells me Cuba is a workers paradise.... I do some quick research, only about 1 hour this time, and find even more evidence of just how insane it is there...
> 
> 
> Massive food shortages.  All the state owned socialized 'for the people' farms, provide barely 20% of the food for the population.   80% of Cuba's food is imported even to this day, which of course is impossible because these morons claim we have a blockade which prevents Cuba from getting food.   Right?
> 
> The average wage in Cuba is $15 a month.
> 
> This is another reason why I claim the entire leftist ideology is an ideology of spoiled brats.    If you spoil your kids until they are rotten to the core, they will end up leftists.    Here we are people whining and complaining about "fight for $15", so they can earn $15 an hour to flip a burger over on a grill, and in Cuba, $15 is how much they earn in a month.   The minimum wage burger flipper in America, is like a the life of a top 1% in Cuba.
> 
> The opening view at 14 seconds, look in the lower right, you'll see a green front building, side facing the left.  But the side of the building facing the camera, is white.... look at it closely....  it's not painted white.... That side of the building collapsed.  That's the inner wall of the building.   The rest is boarded up.
> 
> People LIVE there.
> 
> View attachment 64200
> 
> In a country with a massive housing shortage, buildings have been left to decay so badly, right in the middle of Havana, that TREES are growing out of the building.
> 
> This is the socialist reality.  This is where left-wing ideology leads to.   This is the misery and impoverishment, and hopelessness of Bernie Sanders, and all the rest of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am watching that video, and I am not seeing something....
> 
> Ahhh; People are not trying to chop each others heads on the streets.
> 
> Thats pretty good achievement, on this planet, relatively speaking.
> 
> It seems to me like, socialism was not that bad after all, for Cuban people......
Click to expand...


Yeah.....  Again... did you listen to the video?    There was a person just taking a picture, and the police immediately detained her, and checked identification.... because she snapped a picture.

Yeah dude.... people are pretty calm and safe in an authoritarian dictator-run police state.... WHAT A SHOCK!


----------



## Andylusion

JQPublic1 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> In a country with a massive housing shortage, buildings have been left to decay so badly, right in the middle of Havana, that TREES are growing out of the building.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DId you notice how clean the streets in those pictures ar?. Even among  dilapidation and flaking decor, cleanliness is evidence that the minds of the people living there are not corrupted by drugs  and indifference. That signifies community pride.
Click to expand...


That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard while talking about Cuba.




 

Leftard:  "Other than the ruination, crumbling housing, and object poverty..... HEY THE STREET IS CLEAN!  SOCIALISM IS GREAT!"

Congrats... you are officially a moron.


----------



## alpine

Andylusion said:


> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> In a country with a massive housing shortage, buildings have been left to decay so badly, right in the middle of Havana, that TREES are growing out of the building.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DId you notice how clean the streets in those pictures ar?. Even among  dilapidation and flaking decor, cleanliness is evidence that the minds of the people living there are not corrupted by drugs  and indifference. That signifies community pride.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard while talking about Cuba.
> 
> View attachment 64217
> 
> Leftard:  "Other than the ruination, crumbling housing, and object poverty..... HEY THE STREET IS CLEAN!  SOCIALISM IS GREAT!"
> 
> Congrats... you are officially a moron.
Click to expand...



I didnt say it is great. Nothing is great for human kind. They are bunch of greedy mfs...

I am talking "relatively", believe it or not, Cuba aint that bad after all....


----------



## Andylusion

alpine said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> In a country with a massive housing shortage, buildings have been left to decay so badly, right in the middle of Havana, that TREES are growing out of the building.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DId you notice how clean the streets in those pictures ar?. Even among  dilapidation and flaking decor, cleanliness is evidence that the minds of the people living there are not corrupted by drugs  and indifference. That signifies community pride.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard while talking about Cuba.
> 
> View attachment 64217
> 
> Leftard:  "Other than the ruination, crumbling housing, and object poverty..... HEY THE STREET IS CLEAN!  SOCIALISM IS GREAT!"
> 
> Congrats... you are officially a moron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I didnt say it is great. Nothing is great for human kind. They are bunch of greedy mfs...
> 
> I am talking "relatively", believe it or not, Cuba aint that bad after all....
Click to expand...


Oh good heavens......   You can not possibly be serious.

You must be joking.  You have to be.   Tell me this is a joke?  Right?   lol....

First off, you are comparing Cuba to Venezuela, which is another socialist hell hole, and Bolivia, which is only marginally better.

Let's look at the list of stats used to claim "it's not all that bad".

*Environmental Sustainability*.......  Really?   Yeah when people are so impoverished they can't afford a car, or even electricity.... Carbon emissions are somewhat lower.... What a shock.....

*Mobile Phone and Communication*......  22 per 100 people.   Which has risen ever so slightly since the Communist government made it legal to own a cell phone.

*Human Security*..... We already covered this.  Cuba is a police state.   Pretty easy to lower crime in a dictatorship run police state.  This isn't shocking.

*Poverty*....  Not Available.... Pretty easy to claim things are good, when you don't even give out poverty figures.

*Inequality*.... Not Available.... Pretty easy to claim things are equal, when you don't give out equality numbers.   By the way, did you see the Castro body guard that wrote a book on how Castro lived a life of luxury on his own private island?   Bet the luxury life of Communist officials wouldn't be calculated in that "equality index" huh?

*Gender Index*..... yeah gender equality is important, when everyone is equally poor and impoverished.   Especially since the defacto way that women earn money is by being prostitutes.    There's gender equality for you.

*Trade.... Now that's funny.*   Trade is almost half the entire economy.  What a shock given they have to import nearly everything.

*Income.... Now this one is fascinating*.     You'll notice that they used GNI.  Gross National Income.   That's interesting, because in the US, and other first world countries, we tend to use GDP.    Why Gross National Income?

The calculation for GDP, subtracts imported goods.   GNI does not subtract imported goods.

The calculation for GNI, adds the taxes paid on imported goods. GDP does not add taxes paid on imported goods.

How nifty they found a way to make their country look better.    And it's also humorous because they calculated 'per capita'.   But tell me... where does that value go?   In Cuba, the value of exported Sugar, and the value of tourism income.... doesn't go to the public.   No no.....  it goes to the government.    So while the "per capita" income looks to be higher than Bolivia... in reality the "capita" of Bolivia is actually getting that money.   The "capita" of Cuba, is getting virtually nothing.   $15 a month is the average wage.

*Health....  Again, we've covered this*.  Doctors in Cuba specifically do not report patient deaths, because doing so could lose them their jobs.  We know this from numerous doctors who have defected to other countries, including Bolivia and other latin countries and the US, and they have said as much.   Those numbers are simply lies.

*Education*....   All true... and who cares?    Education for educations sake, is pointless and irrelevant.   There are no jobs in Cuba for an engineer.  So getting a degree in engineering, is pointless.   There is a documentary called "Cuba: Waiting for a Revolution".  In this documentary, one of the people they interviewed was a guy going to university in Cuba.  He was getting a degree, so that he could get a job..... as a waiter.     Yes.... as a waiter.   A university degree, to get a job as a waiter at the resorts.

You need a degree to get a really high end, high pay job in Cuba.... as a waiter.

Watch the documentary yourself on youtube if you want.   I won't post the video here, because this response is long enough.   Just punch in "Cuba: Waiting for a Revolution" in youtube. It will come up.

Now tell me, who gives a crap how much education there is in Cuba, when the best you can hope for is a job as a waiter?   Yay, free education!   Go Bernie!   If can just get Bernie to adopt Socialism and free education like Cuba.... You too can get your degree, so you can work as a waiter!

*Bottom line.....   That picture and all it's stats, and the "Cuba isn't so bad".... all of that is crap. Total BS.*


----------



## JQPublic1

Andylusion said:


> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> The worst, and poorest in America, lives a life of luxury compared to most of Cuba.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is a lie and you know it!
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> They can't even get Aspirin, and you are complaining about lacking insurance?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You say they can't get aspirin but I say that Cuba;s pharmaceutical productions has benefitted the world and has been instrumental in keeping their  economy alive. Not only that, Cuba has  a top notch medical school that trains doctors from all over the world providing *free tuition, room and board *.The only requirement is that the graduates  donate their services to underserved countries,
> 
> Foolish mortal, I feast upon your ignorance, Behold, the Christ-like altruism conveyed by Castro to the  developing world...free of charge... The USA has nothing to compare to this: I think Jesus would approve of Castro far more than anyone in our government.
> 
> The mission of ELAM is to make competent and cooperative doctors with the degree of MD (doctor of medicine), the same degree which is offered to medical graduates all over the Americas. The Latin American School of Medicine is officially recognized by the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG) and the World Health Organization. It is fully accredited by the Medical Board of California, which has the strictest US standards — which means that qualified US graduates of the Latin American School of Medicine are eligible to apply for residency placements in any state of the US.
> 
> *It is preferred that ELAM students come from the poorest communities with the intent of returning to practice in those areas in their countries. *Initially only enrolling students from Latin America and the Caribbean, the school has become open to applicants from impoverished and/or medically underserved areas in the United States and Africa. As part of Cuban international cooperation, ELAM is also training 800 medical doctors from Timor-Leste. [13]
> 
> *Preference is given to applicants who are financially needy and/or people of color who show the most commitment to working in their poor communities.*[4][5][10][14]
> 
> Final admissions decisions are made by a committee representing ELAM's faculty and the Cuban Ministry of Public Health.[6]
> 
> No aspirin? Who needs it when yo make your own replacement!
> 
> http://www.globalresearch.ca/cuba-develops-four-cancer-vaccines-ignored-by-the-media/5390303
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can't even grasp what you are saying....
> 
> Yes, Cuba did develop a vaccine, that they are going to SELL FOR PROFIT, to the rest of the world.
> 
> Now think about that......     The Cuban government, taxed it's people...... to pay for a drug that benefits us.   People that are poor, and impoverished, living in homes that are crumbling to the ground, that can't barely buy food, earning $15 a MONTH...........    Those people, are taxed, to pay for a vaccine that they are going to sell to *US*.
> 
> And think about training doctors to work in the US, and earn money in the US, and that training is paid for by whom?   By poor impoverished Cubans earning $15 a MONTH, so that we can have doctors here in the US?   And you think this is good?
> 
> It's funny, because you call it exploitation for Americans to sell goods to Cubans, and for Cubans to sell natural resources to Americans.   That's exploitation in your book.
> 
> But taxing the crap out of impoverished Cubans, to train doctors WHO THEN LEAVE... and treat us in America.... that's NOT exploitation?   Really??   You people a freak stupid.
Click to expand...

Reading comprehension is not one of your strong points I see. What good does it do to present to you the gift of unexpurgated truth when you can't even bring yourself to acknowledge it. It's there right in front of you and you attempt to add your own spin with impunity..dodging, dancing twisting and turning as the fires of enlightenment sizzle your flame broiled ass. Look again at the text. I have dumbed it down by highlighting in red the points  you missed.

And, once again, your "aspirin" lie was so hilarious I still have an uncontrollable urge to chuckle every time I see it.  Cuba's medical technology is so advanced that they have  surpassed the USA and most other western countries in cancer research. Their Pharma industry is top notch and drugs are FREE for their citizens. And you waffle in here talking about "aspirin."? BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA1


----------



## JQPublic1

Andylusion said:


> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> In a country with a massive housing shortage, buildings have been left to decay so badly, right in the middle of Havana, that TREES are growing out of the building.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DId you notice how clean the streets in those pictures ar?. Even among  dilapidation and flaking decor, cleanliness is evidence that the minds of the people living there are not corrupted by drugs  and indifference. That signifies community pride.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard while talking about Cuba.
> 
> View attachment 64217
> 
> Leftard:  "Other than the ruination, crumbling housing, and object poverty..... HEY THE STREET IS CLEAN!  SOCIALISM IS GREAT!"
> 
> Congrats... you are officially a moron.
Click to expand...

Is that really a picture of Cuba? I don't see a link?  It could be anywhere... even Detroit or Mexico.


----------



## Andylusion

JQPublic1 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> The worst, and poorest in America, lives a life of luxury compared to most of Cuba.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is a lie and you know it!
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> They can't even get Aspirin, and you are complaining about lacking insurance?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You say they can't get aspirin but I say that Cuba;s pharmaceutical productions has benefitted the world and has been instrumental in keeping their  economy alive. Not only that, Cuba has  a top notch medical school that trains doctors from all over the world providing *free tuition, room and board *.The only requirement is that the graduates  donate their services to underserved countries,
> 
> Foolish mortal, I feast upon your ignorance, Behold, the Christ-like altruism conveyed by Castro to the  developing world...free of charge... The USA has nothing to compare to this: I think Jesus would approve of Castro far more than anyone in our government.
> 
> The mission of ELAM is to make competent and cooperative doctors with the degree of MD (doctor of medicine), the same degree which is offered to medical graduates all over the Americas. The Latin American School of Medicine is officially recognized by the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG) and the World Health Organization. It is fully accredited by the Medical Board of California, which has the strictest US standards — which means that qualified US graduates of the Latin American School of Medicine are eligible to apply for residency placements in any state of the US.
> 
> *It is preferred that ELAM students come from the poorest communities with the intent of returning to practice in those areas in their countries. *Initially only enrolling students from Latin America and the Caribbean, the school has become open to applicants from impoverished and/or medically underserved areas in the United States and Africa. As part of Cuban international cooperation, ELAM is also training 800 medical doctors from Timor-Leste. [13]
> 
> *Preference is given to applicants who are financially needy and/or people of color who show the most commitment to working in their poor communities.*[4][5][10][14]
> 
> Final admissions decisions are made by a committee representing ELAM's faculty and the Cuban Ministry of Public Health.[6]
> 
> No aspirin? Who needs it when yo make your own replacement!
> 
> http://www.globalresearch.ca/cuba-develops-four-cancer-vaccines-ignored-by-the-media/5390303
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can't even grasp what you are saying....
> 
> Yes, Cuba did develop a vaccine, that they are going to SELL FOR PROFIT, to the rest of the world.
> 
> Now think about that......     The Cuban government, taxed it's people...... to pay for a drug that benefits us.   People that are poor, and impoverished, living in homes that are crumbling to the ground, that can't barely buy food, earning $15 a MONTH...........    Those people, are taxed, to pay for a vaccine that they are going to sell to *US*.
> 
> And think about training doctors to work in the US, and earn money in the US, and that training is paid for by whom?   By poor impoverished Cubans earning $15 a MONTH, so that we can have doctors here in the US?   And you think this is good?
> 
> It's funny, because you call it exploitation for Americans to sell goods to Cubans, and for Cubans to sell natural resources to Americans.   That's exploitation in your book.
> 
> But taxing the crap out of impoverished Cubans, to train doctors WHO THEN LEAVE... and treat us in America.... that's NOT exploitation?   Really??   You people a freak stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reading comprehension is not one of your strong points I see. What good does it do to present to you the gift of unexpurgated truth when you can't even bring yourself to acknowledge it. It's there right in front of you and you attempt to add your own spin with impunity..dodging, dancing twisting and turning as the fires of enlightenment sizzle your flame broiled ass. Look again at the text. I have dumbed it down by highlighting in red the points  you missed.
> 
> And, once again, your "aspirin" lie was so hilarious I still have an uncontrollable urge to chuckle every time I see it.  Cuba's medical technology is so advanced that they have  surpassed the USA and most other western countries in cancer research. There Pharma industry is top notch and drugs are FREE for their citizens. And you waffle in here talking about "aspirin."? BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA1
Click to expand...


You really are ignorant.

Cuba's Much Lauded Health Care System No Longer Has Even Aspirin to Give Us

A thermometer is an object long-missing from the shelves of pharmacies operating in local currency, while the hard currency stores have the most modern digital models. Getting a pair of glasses to alleviate near-sightedness can take months through subsidized State channels, or twenty-four hours at Miramar Optical where you pay in convertible pesos. Nor do the bodies who staff the hospitals escape these contrasts: we can consult the most competent neurosurgeon in the entire Caribbean region, *but he doesn't have even an aspirin to give us*.​
For Cubans, a bitter pill: Castro's health care system is paid for through onerous taxation and cannot provide even basic drugs

But neither are available at the local pharmacy, which is neat and spotless, but stocks almost nothing. Even the most common pharmaceutical items, such as *Aspirin and rubbing alcohol, are conspicuously absent*. In their place there is a neat display of green boxes of herbal diet teas from Spain.​
Cable: 08HAVANA103_a

WikiLeaks US diplomatic cable, written by a nurse stationed in Cuba.

A Cuban woman in her thirties confides, "It's all about who you know. I'm okay because I am healthy and I have 'friends' in the medical field. If I didn't have my connections, and most Cubans do not, it would be horrible." She relates that Cubans are increasingly dissatisfied with their medical care. In addition to the general lack of supplies and medicines, and because so many doctors have been sent abroad, the neighborhood family physicians now care for 300-400 families and are overwhelmed by the workload.

Cancer patients are not provided with, *nor can they find locally, simple medications such as Aspirin, Tylenol, skin lotions, vitamins, etc.* Most Cuban patients are not offered Hospice Care or any social support programs for children, adults, or their care providers.​
Request Rejected

University of California mission trip to Cuba.  Bring aspirin.

Manitoba woman dies of mystery illness after trip to Cuba

"The resorts are absolutely gorgeous where the tourists are, the facilities are beautiful, the beaches are amazing," John said. "But once we got to the medical centre, it was a horrendous shock.
"It was very dirty, everything had rust on it, there was no doors on anything, everyone seemed to be in their street clothes."

Staff at the clinic had her transferred later that morning to a hospital more than two hours away on mainland Cuba. She was admitted to the intensive care unit, put on a ventilator and treated for septic shock.

The hospital didn't have food, water or public toilets that worked, the family said. Sinks were also few and far between. At one point, hospital staff asked the family to go and bring back orange juice and push it though Barb's feeding tube​
The truths and tales of Cuban healthcare

By the time I moved to Cuba in 1997, there were serious shortages of medicine - from simple *aspirin* to more badly needed drugs.
Ironically, many medicines that cannot be found at a pharmacy are easily bought on the black market. Some doctors, nurses and cleaning staff smuggle the medicine out of the hospitals in a bid to make extra cash.

Although medical attention remains free, many patients did and still do *bring their doctors food, money or other gifts to get to the front of the queue* or to guarantee an appointment for an X-ray, blood test or operation.

If you do not have a contact or money to pay under the table, the waiting time for all but emergency procedures can be ridiculously long.

Many Cubans complain that top-level government and *Communist Party officials have access to VIP health treatment*, while ordinary people must queue from dawn for a routine test, with no guarantee that the allotted numbers will not run out before it is their turn.

And while the preventative healthcare system works well for children, women over the age of 40 are being shortchanged because yearly mammograms are not offered to the population at large.

I saw many hospitals where there was often no running water, the toilets did not flush, and the risk of infections - by the hospital's own admission - was extremely high.​
Once again JQPublic1... I have proven you to be a total ignorant moron.  Have a nice day.


----------



## Tommy Tainant

Andylusion said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a long dark history of western democracies raping third world nations. I hope that it doesnt happen in Cuba.
> 
> 
> 
> In what way?  Example?
Click to expand...

All of Africa for a start.


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## JQPublic1

Andylusion said:


> You really are ignorant.



I am not saying that Cuba is a capitalistic paradise. I am saying that all the BS and propaganda you posted  is questionable. Castro's Cuba is doing a lot of good in the world and those loyal to Castor and Cuba are great ambassadors that helped me to realize that something great is going on there.  ELAM does exist... Cuba is a producer of pharmaceuticals....Cuba does send troops to fight imperialists around the world...And now that the USA has re established ties with  Cuba, there might be even more potential for helping  third world countries without imposing devastating austerity measures on them to repay usurious loans.

I am addicted to a middle class western lifestyle, so no, I probably wouldn't enjoy living life as a Cuban in Cuba. Yet, I understand the courage and sacrifice loyal Cubans exhibit  to make those third world countries marginalized by Western civilization, a better place. And hey do so selfishly.  That , to me, is as Christ-like as you can get.

BTW the lifespan of Cubans are as long or longer than the lifespans of Americans...with or without aspirin...with or without all the perks and benefits we have come to expect in American hospitals and healthcare....  God bless Cuba and God SAVE America. VOTE Bernie!


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Tommy Tainant said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a long dark history of western democracies raping third world nations. I hope that it doesnt happen in Cuba.
> 
> 
> 
> In what way?  Example?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of Africa for a start.
Click to expand...

France forced Haiti to pay reparations for  being Slaves that had  freed themselves from being possessions
*France's debt of dishonour to Haiti | Isabel Macdonald*
In an open letter to French President Nicolas Sarkozy published in the French newspaper Libération, 90 leading academics, authors, journalists and human rights activists from around the world urged the French government to pay Haiti back for the 90m gold francs Haitians were forced to pay as a price for their independence.


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## Andylusion

Tommy Tainant said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a long dark history of western democracies raping third world nations. I hope that it doesnt happen in Cuba.
> 
> 
> 
> In what way?  Example?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of Africa for a start.
Click to expand...


Could you be a tad more specific.   "all of africa", doesn't mean anything.  A plot of land, is not a woman, that can be forced upon.

Are you talking slavery?   Because I don't see any international slave corporations, planning to go to Cuba and capture the residence.

Are you talking confiscation of resources?  Because I don't see any countries passing Cuban resource confiscation acts.

Are you talking about trading?   Because when two people meet, and agree on terms to conduct business, where both sides are in voluntary agreement to the terms given.... that is not "raping" a third world country, anymore than if I sell you my car, for an agreed price.


----------



## Andylusion

JQPublic1 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> You really are ignorant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not saying that Cuba is a capitalistic paradise. I am saying that all the BS and propaganda you posted  is questionable. Castro's Cuba is doing a lot of good in the world and those loyal to Castor and Cuba are great ambassadors that helped me to realize that something great is going on there.  ELAM does exist... Cuba is a producer of pharmaceuticals....Cuba does send troops to fight imperialists around the world...And now that the USA has re established ties with  Cuba, there might be even more potential for helping  third world countries without imposing devastating austerity measures on them to repay usurious loans.
> 
> I am addicted to a middle class western lifestyle, so no, I probably wouldn't enjoy living life as a Cuban in Cuba. Yet, I understand the courage and sacrifice loyal Cubans exhibit  to make those third world countries marginalized by Western civilization, a better place. And hey do so selfishly.  That , to me, is as Christ-like as you can get.
> 
> BTW the lifespan of Cubans are as long or longer than the lifespans of Americans...with or without aspirin...with or without all the perks and benefits we have come to expect in American hospitals and healthcare....  God bless Cuba and God SAVE America. VOTE Bernie!
Click to expand...


lol.... that was so pathetic.   You call 'facts' BS and propaganda, and then write out an entire post of non-stop BS and propaganda.

*"Castro's Cuba is doing a lot of good in the world and those loyal to Castor and Cuba are great ambassadors that helped me to realize that something great is going on there."*

Latin American Herald Tribune - Cuban Doctors Manage to Defect Via Venezuela

Around 500 Cuban doctors have defected to the United States while serving on aid missions in Venezuela, according to members of Cuban exile groups in Miami.
The latest case occurred on Wednesday when seven Cuban physicians managed to leave Caracas’ Maiquetia International Airport, after being held there for several hours and after paying hundreds of dollars each to officials.
“The Venezuelan and Cuban officials at Maiquetia systematically subject the doctors who want to leave to psychological pressure until finally they pay bribes,” Cuban doctor Keiler Moreno, who left Caracas five months ago, told Efe.
The bribes can range from $300 to as much as $2,000.​
*"Yet, I understand the courage and sacrifice loyal Cubans exhibit to make those third world countries marginalized by Western civilization, a better place."*

Really.... so being held in poverty by force, is your idea of "courage and sacrifice"?   More BS and propaganda.

And 'marginalized' by western civilization?   How are we doing anything to Cuba?   We haven't done anything to Cuba.  Cuba marginalized Cuba, by adopting socialism.

*"Cuba does send troops to fight imperialists around the world"*

Confirmed: Cuban forces arriving in Syria | RedState
Cuban Troops Join the Russian Offensive in Syria

They further detail that the Cuban soldiers will man Russian tanks that have been provided to Syrian head-of-state Bashar al-Assad.​
Cuba is helping to fight imperialists, by manning tanks in support of al-Assad who used chemical weapons on his own people.
*
"BTW the lifespan of Cubans are as long or longer than the lifespans of Americans...with or without aspirin...with or without all the perks and benefits we have come to expect in American hospitals and healthcare"*

Yeah....   Right.  





When you remove injuries, the US has one of the highest, if not the highest life expectancy in the world.   The keys are murder, and auto fatalities.

Now we already established the fact that being a dictatorship run police state, does have the benefit of very low murder rates.   And we also know that given the fact $15 a month, isn't enough to buy a car, the vast majority of the impoverished people of Cuba walk everywhere.    Obviously with very few cars on the road, auto fatalities are low.

Lastly, life expectancy is inherently skewed for a number of reasons.

Cuban vs USA longevity

Of course, many people regard any figures about Cuba as at least partly fiction. But even if the longevity statistics are correct, they are open to interpretation. Carmelo Mesa-Lago, a professor emeritus of economics at the University of Pittsburgh, said statistics also show that Cuba has a high rate of abortion, which can lower infant mortality rates and improve life expectancy figures. The constant flow of refugees also may affect longevity figures, since those births are recorded but the deaths are not.​
Poor impoverished women of Cuba, often resort to prostitution as a source of income.  Abortions are not counted as deaths, which lowers child mortality.

Moreover, even to this day, people leave Cuba routinely.   Their births are recorded, but obviously their deaths (because they are not there), are not recorded.

The same article continues.....

“But even if I diagnosed something simple like bronchitis,” he said, “I couldn’t write a prescription for antibiotics, because there were none.”

He defected in 2000 while on a medical mission in Zimbabwe and made his way to the United States. He is now an urgent-care physician at Baptist Hospital in Miami.

Having practiced medicine in both Cuba and the United States, Dr. Cordova has an unusual perspective for comparison.
“Actually there are three systems,” Dr. Cordova said, because Cuba has two: one is for party officials and foreigners like those Mr. Moore brought to Havana. “It is as good as this one here, with all the resources, the best doctors, the best medicines, and nobody pays a cent,” he said.

But for the 11 million ordinary Cubans, hospitals are often ill equipped and patients “have to bring their own food, soap, sheets — they have to bring everything.” And up to 20,000 Cuban doctors may be working in Venezuela, creating a shortage in Cuba.​
So while you are praising Cuba for sending help to other countries, it does so while letting it's own people suffer in misery.

Sen. Tom Harkin says Cuba has lower child mortality, longer life expectancy than U.S.

"Cuba does have a very low infant mortality rate, but pregnant women are treated with very authoritarian tactics to maintain these favorable statistics," said Tassie Katherine Hirschfeld, the chair of the department of anthropology at the University of Oklahoma who spent nine months living in Cuba to study the nation's health system. "They are pressured to undergo abortions that they may not want if prenatal screening detects fetal abnormalities. If pregnant women develop complications, they are placed in ‘Casas de Maternidad’ for monitoring, even if they would prefer to be at home. Individual doctors are pressured by their superiors to reach certain statistical targets. If there is a spike in infant mortality in a certain district, doctors may be fired. There is pressure to falsify statistics."​So let me boil that down.   In order to maintain good statistics, mothers are pressured to have abortions if there is any chance of complications.  Moreover, doctors are pressured to falsify records, to avoid damaging stats, and risk losing their jobs.

*Bottom line:*

You spewed out endless BS and propaganda, while accusing others of doing it.

I have responded to your BS, with fact.   Once again, I have show how ignorant you are.


----------



## alpine

Andylusion said:


> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> In a country with a massive housing shortage, buildings have been left to decay so badly, right in the middle of Havana, that TREES are growing out of the building.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DId you notice how clean the streets in those pictures ar?. Even among  dilapidation and flaking decor, cleanliness is evidence that the minds of the people living there are not corrupted by drugs  and indifference. That signifies community pride.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard while talking about Cuba.
> 
> View attachment 64217
> 
> Leftard:  "Other than the ruination, crumbling housing, and object poverty..... HEY THE STREET IS CLEAN!  SOCIALISM IS GREAT!"
> 
> Congrats... you are officially a moron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I didnt say it is great. Nothing is great for human kind. They are bunch of greedy mfs...
> 
> I am talking "relatively", believe it or not, Cuba aint that bad after all....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh good heavens......   You can not possibly be serious.
> 
> You must be joking.  You have to be.   Tell me this is a joke?  Right?   lol....
> 
> First off, you are comparing Cuba to Venezuela, which is another socialist hell hole, and Bolivia, which is only marginally better.
> 
> Let's look at the list of stats used to claim "it's not all that bad".
> 
> *Environmental Sustainability*.......  Really?   Yeah when people are so impoverished they can't afford a car, or even electricity.... Carbon emissions are somewhat lower.... What a shock.....
> 
> *Mobile Phone and Communication*......  22 per 100 people.   Which has risen ever so slightly since the Communist government made it legal to own a cell phone.
> 
> *Human Security*..... We already covered this.  Cuba is a police state.   Pretty easy to lower crime in a dictatorship run police state.  This isn't shocking.
> 
> *Poverty*....  Not Available.... Pretty easy to claim things are good, when you don't even give out poverty figures.
> 
> *Inequality*.... Not Available.... Pretty easy to claim things are equal, when you don't give out equality numbers.   By the way, did you see the Castro body guard that wrote a book on how Castro lived a life of luxury on his own private island?   Bet the luxury life of Communist officials wouldn't be calculated in that "equality index" huh?
> 
> *Gender Index*..... yeah gender equality is important, when everyone is equally poor and impoverished.   Especially since the defacto way that women earn money is by being prostitutes.    There's gender equality for you.
> 
> *Trade.... Now that's funny.*   Trade is almost half the entire economy.  What a shock given they have to import nearly everything.
> 
> *Income.... Now this one is fascinating*.     You'll notice that they used GNI.  Gross National Income.   That's interesting, because in the US, and other first world countries, we tend to use GDP.    Why Gross National Income?
> 
> The calculation for GDP, subtracts imported goods.   GNI does not subtract imported goods.
> 
> The calculation for GNI, adds the taxes paid on imported goods. GDP does not add taxes paid on imported goods.
> 
> How nifty they found a way to make their country look better.    And it's also humorous because they calculated 'per capita'.   But tell me... where does that value go?   In Cuba, the value of exported Sugar, and the value of tourism income.... doesn't go to the public.   No no.....  it goes to the government.    So while the "per capita" income looks to be higher than Bolivia... in reality the "capita" of Bolivia is actually getting that money.   The "capita" of Cuba, is getting virtually nothing.   $15 a month is the average wage.
> 
> *Health....  Again, we've covered this*.  Doctors in Cuba specifically do not report patient deaths, because doing so could lose them their jobs.  We know this from numerous doctors who have defected to other countries, including Bolivia and other latin countries and the US, and they have said as much.   Those numbers are simply lies.
> 
> *Education*....   All true... and who cares?    Education for educations sake, is pointless and irrelevant.   There are no jobs in Cuba for an engineer.  So getting a degree in engineering, is pointless.   There is a documentary called "Cuba: Waiting for a Revolution".  In this documentary, one of the people they interviewed was a guy going to university in Cuba.  He was getting a degree, so that he could get a job..... as a waiter.     Yes.... as a waiter.   A university degree, to get a job as a waiter at the resorts.
> 
> You need a degree to get a really high end, high pay job in Cuba.... as a waiter.
> 
> Watch the documentary yourself on youtube if you want.   I won't post the video here, because this response is long enough.   Just punch in "Cuba: Waiting for a Revolution" in youtube. It will come up.
> 
> Now tell me, who gives a crap how much education there is in Cuba, when the best you can hope for is a job as a waiter?   Yay, free education!   Go Bernie!   If can just get Bernie to adopt Socialism and free education like Cuba.... You too can get your degree, so you can work as a waiter!
> 
> *Bottom line.....   That picture and all it's stats, and the "Cuba isn't so bad".... all of that is crap. Total BS.*
Click to expand...



What is all this fuzz??

This is comparison of 3 similar countries in United Nations Human Development Index.

We are aware western countries are all great and magnificent and strong and powerful and rich and this and that and all the other bullshit you care sooo much about.

*But;* comparing to other similar countries (despite Cuba being the only one crushed under embargo) Cuba, *relatively speaking*(seems like you don't know the meaning but, here ya go), is in a pretty good shape by themselves.

If there was no embargo, they probably would have been in a much better shape.

The real test is up coming for them however. We shall see.....


----------



## JQPublic1

Andylusion said:


> Lastly, life expectancy is inherently skewed for a number of reasons.



I am not interested in anything except the numbers. Life expectancy isn't skewed, it is what it is for whatever the reason. If you are less likely to die in an automobile accident in Cuba...well, that is just one more factor that makes living in the USA more dangerous, than living in Cuba. Here is a chart that shows Cuban life expectancy:

Latin America’s Demographic Divergence | Newgeography.com






Dayum, Cubans live longer than those Americans represented on YOUR chart.
This graph speaks  louder than your words and your incessant propaganda!






Andylusion said:


> Cuba is helping to fight imperialists, by manning tanks in support of al-Assad who used chemical weapons on his own people.



With the blessings of Donald Trump, I might add! Those are Russian tanks.

Shifting on Islamic State, Donald Trump Welcomes Russia’s Moves in Syria



Andylusion said:


> When you remove injuries, the US has one of the highest, if not the highest life expectancy in the world. The keys are murder, and auto fatalities.



Unlike you, I don't rule causes of death out. ALL causes are to be considered not just those you  want to handpick! But since you are so dense, I'll elaborate on the healthcare side once again/,..ready chump? Here ya go:

The number of US deaths attributed to medical error is also staggering. 90,000+ people die every year from medical error in this country. Adding that 45,000 uninsured deaths figure makes a whopping 135,000 poor souls lost in this country every year. I haven't heard that Cubans are experiencing a similar mortality rate due to medical error, not even proportionally.


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## JQPublic1

Andylusion said:


> Leftard: "Other than the ruination, crumbling housing, and object poverty..... HEY THE STREET IS CLEAN! SOCIALISM IS GREAT!"



Here is a better view of that supposedly " crumbling" effect you associate with Cuba. I don't see many crumbs here!


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## JQPublic1

Andylusion said:


> Really? Yeah when people are so impoverished they can't afford a car, or even electricity.... Carbon emissions are somewhat lower.... What a shock.....



But that could explain this graph:


----------



## JQPublic1

In a aprevious post I said:
*
"Yet, I understand the courage and sacrifice loyal Cubans exhibit to make those third world countries marginalized by Western civilization, a better place."

You misread it and said:

*


Andylusion said:


> Really.... so being held in poverty by force, is your idea of "courage and sacrifice"? More BS and propaganda.
> 
> And 'marginalized' by western civilization? How are we doing anything to Cuba? We haven't done anything to Cuba. Cuba marginalized Cuba, by adopting socialism.



Your slow cognitive ability didn't allow you  to reads the actual text so you projected what you wanted to see. Conviction and loyalty to humanity is a foreign concept to you. You cannot conceive of the notion that many, if not most,  Cubans embrace their ideology and way of life with as much ardor as you do  yours. Those souls place altruism above personal wealth. Altruism seems to be embedded in the fabric of Cuban life as shown by the benevolence freely shared with other impoverished nations of the world. It is as if a  nation of militant monks have been mischaracterized as something other than the unwitting purveyors of Christian values they seem to be. What, but the hand of the Almighty could have protected this eponymous David (Cuba) against the wrath and might of the eponymous Goliath(USA)? Communism and Socialism ARE  often linked with pure Christianity where love and peace trumps the aggressive drive to dominate and
exploit for profit at any cost.


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## Andylusion

JQPublic1 said:


> In a aprevious post I said:
> *
> "Yet, I understand the courage and sacrifice loyal Cubans exhibit to make those third world countries marginalized by Western civilization, a better place."
> 
> You misread it and said:
> 
> *
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really.... so being held in poverty by force, is your idea of "courage and sacrifice"? More BS and propaganda.
> 
> And 'marginalized' by western civilization? How are we doing anything to Cuba? We haven't done anything to Cuba. Cuba marginalized Cuba, by adopting socialism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your slow cognitive ability didn't allow you  to reads the actual text so you projected what you wanted to see. Conviction and loyalty to humanity is a foreign concept to you. You can conceive of the notion that many if not most Cubans embrace their ideology and way of life with as much ardor as you do  yours. Those souls place altruism above personal wealth. Altruism seems to be embedded in the fabric of Cuban life as shown by the benevolence it freely shares with other impoverished nations of the world. It is as if a  nation of militant monks have been mischaracterized as something other than the unwitting purveyors of Christian values they seem to be. What, but the hand of the Almighty could have protected this eponymous David (Cuba) against the wrath and might of the eponymous Goliath(USA)? Communism and Socialism ARE  often linked with pure Christianity where love and peace trumps the aggressive drive to dominate and
> exploit for profit at any cost.
Click to expand...


No I understood exactly what you said.  What you said, was wrong.

"I understand the courage and sacrifice loyal Cubans"

cour·age
ˈkərij/
noun
noun: courage
 the ability to do something that frightens one.
 "she called on all her courage to face the ordeal"
 strength in the face of pain or grief.

They are not able to do anything.  Up until these last few years, where the government has allowed them more freedom to open private enterprise, and engage in Capitalism, they have not been able to have courage to do anything at all, other than leave the country.



 
This is the courage of Cubans.   To leave their country in rafts.  Only to face Bill Clinton forcing them back to Cuba in some cases.



 
The courage to face the storm troopers of a left-wing president, forcing people back to a left-wing dictator.

sac·ri·fice
ˈsakrəˌfīs/
noun
noun: sacrifice; plural noun: sacrifices
 1.
 an act of slaughtering an animal or person or surrendering a possession as an offering to God or to a divine or supernatural figure.

They are not "surrendering" anything.   They are not 'sacrificing'.    They are being oppressed by a left wing dictator who dooms them to impoverishment for life.

So no, I understand what you said perfectly.    What you said WAS WRONG.   Period.  You are WRONG.

And everything else you said was wrong too.   Your entire post was wrong.


----------



## Andylusion

JQPublic1 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really? Yeah when people are so impoverished they can't afford a car, or even electricity.... Carbon emissions are somewhat lower.... What a shock.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But that could explain this graph:
Click to expand...


I already covered this.   When you adjust for fatal injury, the US has the highest life expectancy in the world.

Pretty easy to claim that Cuba has a decent life expectancy, when a police state keeps murder low, everyone is too impoverished to have a bicycle, let alone a car, and kids are murdered in abortion, and thousands leave the country every year.

You are wrong again.   You have been consistently wrong.  I don't even think you know how to not be wrong.


----------



## Andylusion

JQPublic1 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Leftard: "Other than the ruination, crumbling housing, and object poverty..... HEY THE STREET IS CLEAN! SOCIALISM IS GREAT!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a better view of that supposedly " crumbling" effect you associate with Cuba. I don't see many crumbs here!
Click to expand...


LOL..... you can't even look at your own photo, you are so dumb.  Broken down car.   Person on a tricycle, broken out windows.

Can you see the bricked up doorway?  Just right of the car?  Are you freakin blind?  What the heck is wrong with you?  You are a 10-year-old right?  That would explain a ton.  You obviously are not mentally developed enough to even look at your own pictures you post.

Besides, I've posted DOZENS of photos, including a video of Havana, and all of it shows the decay of the city.    The one building that looks good in your photo, is the government building.  Well what a shock.  The socialists always live way better than the impoverished people they ruin.

You are an idiot.  Even your own evidence, that you yourself post, makes you look stupid.


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## Andylusion

alpine said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
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> 
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> alpine said:
> 
> 
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> Andylusion said:
> 
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> 
> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> In a country with a massive housing shortage, buildings have been left to decay so badly, right in the middle of Havana, that TREES are growing out of the building.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DId you notice how clean the streets in those pictures ar?. Even among  dilapidation and flaking decor, cleanliness is evidence that the minds of the people living there are not corrupted by drugs  and indifference. That signifies community pride.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard while talking about Cuba.
> 
> View attachment 64217
> 
> Leftard:  "Other than the ruination, crumbling housing, and object poverty..... HEY THE STREET IS CLEAN!  SOCIALISM IS GREAT!"
> 
> Congrats... you are officially a moron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I didnt say it is great. Nothing is great for human kind. They are bunch of greedy mfs...
> 
> I am talking "relatively", believe it or not, Cuba aint that bad after all....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh good heavens......   You can not possibly be serious.
> 
> You must be joking.  You have to be.   Tell me this is a joke?  Right?   lol....
> 
> First off, you are comparing Cuba to Venezuela, which is another socialist hell hole, and Bolivia, which is only marginally better.
> 
> Let's look at the list of stats used to claim "it's not all that bad".
> 
> *Environmental Sustainability*.......  Really?   Yeah when people are so impoverished they can't afford a car, or even electricity.... Carbon emissions are somewhat lower.... What a shock.....
> 
> *Mobile Phone and Communication*......  22 per 100 people.   Which has risen ever so slightly since the Communist government made it legal to own a cell phone.
> 
> *Human Security*..... We already covered this.  Cuba is a police state.   Pretty easy to lower crime in a dictatorship run police state.  This isn't shocking.
> 
> *Poverty*....  Not Available.... Pretty easy to claim things are good, when you don't even give out poverty figures.
> 
> *Inequality*.... Not Available.... Pretty easy to claim things are equal, when you don't give out equality numbers.   By the way, did you see the Castro body guard that wrote a book on how Castro lived a life of luxury on his own private island?   Bet the luxury life of Communist officials wouldn't be calculated in that "equality index" huh?
> 
> *Gender Index*..... yeah gender equality is important, when everyone is equally poor and impoverished.   Especially since the defacto way that women earn money is by being prostitutes.    There's gender equality for you.
> 
> *Trade.... Now that's funny.*   Trade is almost half the entire economy.  What a shock given they have to import nearly everything.
> 
> *Income.... Now this one is fascinating*.     You'll notice that they used GNI.  Gross National Income.   That's interesting, because in the US, and other first world countries, we tend to use GDP.    Why Gross National Income?
> 
> The calculation for GDP, subtracts imported goods.   GNI does not subtract imported goods.
> 
> The calculation for GNI, adds the taxes paid on imported goods. GDP does not add taxes paid on imported goods.
> 
> How nifty they found a way to make their country look better.    And it's also humorous because they calculated 'per capita'.   But tell me... where does that value go?   In Cuba, the value of exported Sugar, and the value of tourism income.... doesn't go to the public.   No no.....  it goes to the government.    So while the "per capita" income looks to be higher than Bolivia... in reality the "capita" of Bolivia is actually getting that money.   The "capita" of Cuba, is getting virtually nothing.   $15 a month is the average wage.
> 
> *Health....  Again, we've covered this*.  Doctors in Cuba specifically do not report patient deaths, because doing so could lose them their jobs.  We know this from numerous doctors who have defected to other countries, including Bolivia and other latin countries and the US, and they have said as much.   Those numbers are simply lies.
> 
> *Education*....   All true... and who cares?    Education for educations sake, is pointless and irrelevant.   There are no jobs in Cuba for an engineer.  So getting a degree in engineering, is pointless.   There is a documentary called "Cuba: Waiting for a Revolution".  In this documentary, one of the people they interviewed was a guy going to university in Cuba.  He was getting a degree, so that he could get a job..... as a waiter.     Yes.... as a waiter.   A university degree, to get a job as a waiter at the resorts.
> 
> You need a degree to get a really high end, high pay job in Cuba.... as a waiter.
> 
> Watch the documentary yourself on youtube if you want.   I won't post the video here, because this response is long enough.   Just punch in "Cuba: Waiting for a Revolution" in youtube. It will come up.
> 
> Now tell me, who gives a crap how much education there is in Cuba, when the best you can hope for is a job as a waiter?   Yay, free education!   Go Bernie!   If can just get Bernie to adopt Socialism and free education like Cuba.... You too can get your degree, so you can work as a waiter!
> 
> *Bottom line.....   That picture and all it's stats, and the "Cuba isn't so bad".... all of that is crap. Total BS.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What is all this fuzz??
> 
> This is comparison of 3 similar countries in United Nations Human Development Index.
> 
> We are aware western countries are all great and magnificent and strong and powerful and rich and this and that and all the other bullshit you care sooo much about.
> 
> *But;* comparing to other similar countries (despite Cuba being the only one crushed under embargo) Cuba, *relatively speaking*(seems like you don't know the meaning but, here ya go), is in a pretty good shape by themselves.
> 
> If there was no embargo, they probably would have been in a much better shape.
> 
> The real test is up coming for them however. We shall see.....
Click to expand...


You compared Cuba to Bolivia and Venezuela.  Both of which are socialist hell holes.     Yes, if you compare my trash can, to a dumpster, and a land fill, the trash can sure seems like it's "on par".      Compare Cuba to Chile, or Brazil.

Moreover, it's funny how there is always some ignorant moron, trying to tell me that Cuba isn't so bad, when the fact is, people defect from Cuba ALL THE TIME.   PEOPLE FLEEING FROM CUBA CONSTANTLY.    All your BS and propaganda, doesn't change the fact the Cuba has to place ARMED GUARDS around their doctors missions, to keep the doctors from running away and defecting.   These doctors are paying off offices, upwards of THOUSANDS of dollars, to escape from Cuba.

When you have to place guards around your citizens, to keep them from leaving..... hello idiot!  Your BS crap isn't true.  Apparently it isn't "not all that bad", or you wouldn't need to prevent people from leaving.

Again, I answered everything in your post.  You have ignored all of my responses, indicating you can't answer them.

They are not in pretty good shape. Not even close.    Moreover, Cuba is not "crushed under embargo".  Already proved conclusively that Cuba has more trade, than they do GDP.   They actually import more goods, than the entire country produces in a year.

The embargo doesn't stop Cuba from trading with literally everyone... but us.   Funny how we have Tommy's post over there worried that trading with Cuba, will allow "western countries to rape Cuba", and here you are telling me, it's because of us not trading with Cuba (even though everyone else is), that has crushed Cuba.

You people can't even figure out your own positions.


----------



## Andylusion

JQPublic1 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lastly, life expectancy is inherently skewed for a number of reasons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not interested in anything except the numbers. Life expectancy isn't skewed, it is what it is for whatever the reason. If you are less likely to die in an automobile accident in Cuba...well, that is just one more factor that makes living in the USA more dangerous, than living in Cuba. Here is a chart that shows Cuban life expectancy:
> 
> Latin America’s Demographic Divergence | Newgeography.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dayum, Cubans live longer than those Americans represented on YOUR chart.
> This graph speaks  louder than your words and your incessant propaganda!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cuba is helping to fight imperialists, by manning tanks in support of al-Assad who used chemical weapons on his own people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With the blessings of Donald Trump, I might add! Those are Russian tanks.
> 
> Shifting on Islamic State, Donald Trump Welcomes Russia’s Moves in Syria
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you remove injuries, the US has one of the highest, if not the highest life expectancy in the world. The keys are murder, and auto fatalities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unlike you, I don't rule causes of death out. ALL causes are to be considered not just those you  want to handpick! But since you are so dense, I'll elaborate on the healthcare side once again/,..ready chump? Here ya go:
> 
> The number of US deaths attributed to medical error is also staggering. 90,000+ people die every year from medical error in this country. Adding that 45,000 uninsured deaths figure makes a whopping 135,000 poor souls lost in this country every year. I haven't heard that Cubans are experiencing a similar mortality rate due to medical error, not even proportionally.
Click to expand...


So you are saying that you support al-Assad.    You are an evil person.

Yes, and if we simply adopt a police state, and simply execute criminals, and toss everyone in prison, we can have a higher life expectancy like Cuba.

And if we simply adopt socialism, and have everyone working for $15 a month, we too can eliminate automobiles from the public, and without auto fatalities, we too can have a higher life expectancy like Cuba.

And if we force doctors to falsify death records (because that is what Cuba does), we too can have better statistics that are lies.

If you are saying, you want us to have a higher life expectancy like Cuba, then you are saying you want people impoverished, under a police state, and false statistics.

You are an idiot if you want that.   By all means, go live in Cuba.  It'll be great having a higher life expectancy, while stuck in misery and impoverishment.    The rest of us, don't want the crap you are spewing.  No intelligent person would.


----------



## alpine

Andylusion said:


> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> DId you notice how clean the streets in those pictures ar?. Even among  dilapidation and flaking decor, cleanliness is evidence that the minds of the people living there are not corrupted by drugs  and indifference. That signifies community pride.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard while talking about Cuba.
> 
> View attachment 64217
> 
> Leftard:  "Other than the ruination, crumbling housing, and object poverty..... HEY THE STREET IS CLEAN!  SOCIALISM IS GREAT!"
> 
> Congrats... you are officially a moron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I didnt say it is great. Nothing is great for human kind. They are bunch of greedy mfs...
> 
> I am talking "relatively", believe it or not, Cuba aint that bad after all....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh good heavens......   You can not possibly be serious.
> 
> You must be joking.  You have to be.   Tell me this is a joke?  Right?   lol....
> 
> First off, you are comparing Cuba to Venezuela, which is another socialist hell hole, and Bolivia, which is only marginally better.
> 
> Let's look at the list of stats used to claim "it's not all that bad".
> 
> *Environmental Sustainability*.......  Really?   Yeah when people are so impoverished they can't afford a car, or even electricity.... Carbon emissions are somewhat lower.... What a shock.....
> 
> *Mobile Phone and Communication*......  22 per 100 people.   Which has risen ever so slightly since the Communist government made it legal to own a cell phone.
> 
> *Human Security*..... We already covered this.  Cuba is a police state.   Pretty easy to lower crime in a dictatorship run police state.  This isn't shocking.
> 
> *Poverty*....  Not Available.... Pretty easy to claim things are good, when you don't even give out poverty figures.
> 
> *Inequality*.... Not Available.... Pretty easy to claim things are equal, when you don't give out equality numbers.   By the way, did you see the Castro body guard that wrote a book on how Castro lived a life of luxury on his own private island?   Bet the luxury life of Communist officials wouldn't be calculated in that "equality index" huh?
> 
> *Gender Index*..... yeah gender equality is important, when everyone is equally poor and impoverished.   Especially since the defacto way that women earn money is by being prostitutes.    There's gender equality for you.
> 
> *Trade.... Now that's funny.*   Trade is almost half the entire economy.  What a shock given they have to import nearly everything.
> 
> *Income.... Now this one is fascinating*.     You'll notice that they used GNI.  Gross National Income.   That's interesting, because in the US, and other first world countries, we tend to use GDP.    Why Gross National Income?
> 
> The calculation for GDP, subtracts imported goods.   GNI does not subtract imported goods.
> 
> The calculation for GNI, adds the taxes paid on imported goods. GDP does not add taxes paid on imported goods.
> 
> How nifty they found a way to make their country look better.    And it's also humorous because they calculated 'per capita'.   But tell me... where does that value go?   In Cuba, the value of exported Sugar, and the value of tourism income.... doesn't go to the public.   No no.....  it goes to the government.    So while the "per capita" income looks to be higher than Bolivia... in reality the "capita" of Bolivia is actually getting that money.   The "capita" of Cuba, is getting virtually nothing.   $15 a month is the average wage.
> 
> *Health....  Again, we've covered this*.  Doctors in Cuba specifically do not report patient deaths, because doing so could lose them their jobs.  We know this from numerous doctors who have defected to other countries, including Bolivia and other latin countries and the US, and they have said as much.   Those numbers are simply lies.
> 
> *Education*....   All true... and who cares?    Education for educations sake, is pointless and irrelevant.   There are no jobs in Cuba for an engineer.  So getting a degree in engineering, is pointless.   There is a documentary called "Cuba: Waiting for a Revolution".  In this documentary, one of the people they interviewed was a guy going to university in Cuba.  He was getting a degree, so that he could get a job..... as a waiter.     Yes.... as a waiter.   A university degree, to get a job as a waiter at the resorts.
> 
> You need a degree to get a really high end, high pay job in Cuba.... as a waiter.
> 
> Watch the documentary yourself on youtube if you want.   I won't post the video here, because this response is long enough.   Just punch in "Cuba: Waiting for a Revolution" in youtube. It will come up.
> 
> Now tell me, who gives a crap how much education there is in Cuba, when the best you can hope for is a job as a waiter?   Yay, free education!   Go Bernie!   If can just get Bernie to adopt Socialism and free education like Cuba.... You too can get your degree, so you can work as a waiter!
> 
> *Bottom line.....   That picture and all it's stats, and the "Cuba isn't so bad".... all of that is crap. Total BS.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What is all this fuzz??
> 
> This is comparison of 3 similar countries in United Nations Human Development Index.
> 
> We are aware western countries are all great and magnificent and strong and powerful and rich and this and that and all the other bullshit you care sooo much about.
> 
> *But;* comparing to other similar countries (despite Cuba being the only one crushed under embargo) Cuba, *relatively speaking*(seems like you don't know the meaning but, here ya go), is in a pretty good shape by themselves.
> 
> If there was no embargo, they probably would have been in a much better shape.
> 
> The real test is up coming for them however. We shall see.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You compared Cuba to Bolivia and Venezuela.  Both of which are socialist hell holes.     Yes, if you compare my trash can, to a dumpster, and a land fill, the trash can sure seems like it's "on par".      Compare Cuba to Chile, or Brazil.
> 
> Moreover, it's funny how there is always some ignorant moron, trying to tell me that Cuba isn't so bad, when the fact is, people defect from Cuba ALL THE TIME.   PEOPLE FLEEING FROM CUBA CONSTANTLY.    All your BS and propaganda, doesn't change the fact the Cuba has to place ARMED GUARDS around their doctors missions, to keep the doctors from running away and defecting.   These doctors are paying off offices, upwards of THOUSANDS of dollars, to escape from Cuba.
> 
> When you have to place guards around your citizens, to keep them from leaving..... hello idiot!  Your BS crap isn't true.  Apparently it isn't "not all that bad", or you wouldn't need to prevent people from leaving.
> 
> Again, I answered everything in your post.  You have ignored all of my responses, indicating you can't answer them.
> 
> They are not in pretty good shape. Not even close.    Moreover, Cuba is not "crushed under embargo".  Already proved conclusively that Cuba has more trade, than they do GDP.   They actually import more goods, than the entire country produces in a year.
> 
> The embargo doesn't stop Cuba from trading with literally everyone... but us.   Funny how we have Tommy's post over there worried that trading with Cuba, will allow "western countries to rape Cuba", and here you are telling me, it's because of us not trading with Cuba (even though everyone else is), that has crushed Cuba.
> 
> You people can't even figure out your own positions.
Click to expand...



Venezuela was a pretty capitalist country at some point, as well as Bolivia.

You don't get the point.

Regardless of what they are, we are comparing where they have ended up. And we can see, even tho she has been crumbling under the embargo, Cuba is not too bad, (again) *relatively speaking*.

The reason you have Cubans flowing into US, is because US has a law in place that provides asylum status to Cuban people. I don't have to prove what would happen if same law was applied for Mexico, or Venezuela, or Bolivia.

I don't think you are able to see the big picture here. You are living in a pink fairy tale bubble. You are not able to see the struggles of people from around the world.

If you had the chance one day, and got outside your comfy bubble, and go around the world, you could understand why Cuba is not so bad after all............


----------



## JQPublic1

Andylusion said:


> This is the courage of Cubans. To leave their country in rafts. Only to face Bill Clinton forcing them back to Cuba in some cases.



More projections of what you wish I said.  Loyal Cubans wouldn't be among those boat people you show...if indeed they are Cubans at all!   Also, you defined every word but the key one: *loyal*. I understand why you didn't.



Andylusion said:


> The courage to face the storm troopers of a left-wing president, forcing people back to a left-wing dictator.



You mean the criminals Castro got rid of  when he had the chance?  Well, a lot of them got through. It is those same criminals who are continuing their anti-social behavior here. Some have also contributed to the very propaganda that you love to spew so much.




Andylusion said:


> No I understood exactly what you said. What you said, was wrong.



If you understood what I was saying you are disingenuous. Here is what I said again:

*"Yet, I understand the courage and sacrifice loyal Cubans exhibit to make those third world countries marginalized by Western civilization, a better place."
*
Your interpretation centers on the belief that I was talking about Cubans being marginalized.  That wasn't the thrust of my premise at all. Any  person with a modicum of comprehension can see that. The paragraph was meant to explain the courage and sacrifice 'LOYAL" Cubans were making by providing doctors, medical training and soldiers to all the corners of the globe to help other nations in dire straits. You read that and went off on a completely unrelated tangent like some blathering fool!


----------



## JQPublic1

Andylusion said:


> So you are saying that you support al-Assad. You are an evil person.



I  don't support al-Assad.  I do agree with Donald Trump on this issue. Is he evil too?



Andylusion said:


> Yes, and if we simply adopt a police state, and simply execute criminals, and toss everyone in prison, we can have a higher life expectancy like Cuba.



Then Texas ought to have the highest life expectancy than any state. BTW The USA has the highest prison population in the world, dumbass!



Andylusion said:


> And if we simply adopt socialism, and have everyone working for $15 a month, we too can eliminate automobiles from the public, and without auto fatalities, we too can have a higher life expectancy like Cuba.


 Addressing that conservative estimate of 90,000 deaths by medical error per year in the USA would be a better focus of time and effort.



Andylusion said:


> And if we force doctors to falsify death records (because that is what Cuba does), we too can have better statistics that are lies



I don't find that statement to be credible. Cuba has contingents of tourists and visitors from all over the world. Many sources outside of those tied to the USA have reported that Cuba has an excellent health care system



Andylusion said:


> If you are saying, you want us to have a higher life expectancy like Cuba, then you are saying you want people impoverished, under a police state, and false statistics.



Wow, what a bullshit artist and projectionist you are. I am not saying anything close to what you  are projecting.  I guess that is what I get for trying to converse with a psychopathic  and obsessed moron with an axe to grind.



Andylusion said:


> You are an idiot if you want that. By all means, go live in Cuba. It'll be great having a higher life expectancy, while stuck in misery and impoverishment. The rest of us, don't want the crap you are spewing. No intelligent person would.



Oh, brother. You are out of control aren't you? You do know that with Cuban and USA diplomatic ties restored ,Cuba is likely to be a booming economy in the next few years. Considering what they did with so little, I can only imagine what Cuba can accomplish with no trade restrictions imposed on them. In the coming decade Cuba just might be the place to live for retiring Americans. The only thing I dread about all of this is that ELAM will be privatized and the third world champion will be no more.


----------



## Andylusion

alpine said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard while talking about Cuba.
> 
> View attachment 64217
> 
> Leftard:  "Other than the ruination, crumbling housing, and object poverty..... HEY THE STREET IS CLEAN!  SOCIALISM IS GREAT!"
> 
> Congrats... you are officially a moron.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didnt say it is great. Nothing is great for human kind. They are bunch of greedy mfs...
> 
> I am talking "relatively", believe it or not, Cuba aint that bad after all....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh good heavens......   You can not possibly be serious.
> 
> You must be joking.  You have to be.   Tell me this is a joke?  Right?   lol....
> 
> First off, you are comparing Cuba to Venezuela, which is another socialist hell hole, and Bolivia, which is only marginally better.
> 
> Let's look at the list of stats used to claim "it's not all that bad".
> 
> *Environmental Sustainability*.......  Really?   Yeah when people are so impoverished they can't afford a car, or even electricity.... Carbon emissions are somewhat lower.... What a shock.....
> 
> *Mobile Phone and Communication*......  22 per 100 people.   Which has risen ever so slightly since the Communist government made it legal to own a cell phone.
> 
> *Human Security*..... We already covered this.  Cuba is a police state.   Pretty easy to lower crime in a dictatorship run police state.  This isn't shocking.
> 
> *Poverty*....  Not Available.... Pretty easy to claim things are good, when you don't even give out poverty figures.
> 
> *Inequality*.... Not Available.... Pretty easy to claim things are equal, when you don't give out equality numbers.   By the way, did you see the Castro body guard that wrote a book on how Castro lived a life of luxury on his own private island?   Bet the luxury life of Communist officials wouldn't be calculated in that "equality index" huh?
> 
> *Gender Index*..... yeah gender equality is important, when everyone is equally poor and impoverished.   Especially since the defacto way that women earn money is by being prostitutes.    There's gender equality for you.
> 
> *Trade.... Now that's funny.*   Trade is almost half the entire economy.  What a shock given they have to import nearly everything.
> 
> *Income.... Now this one is fascinating*.     You'll notice that they used GNI.  Gross National Income.   That's interesting, because in the US, and other first world countries, we tend to use GDP.    Why Gross National Income?
> 
> The calculation for GDP, subtracts imported goods.   GNI does not subtract imported goods.
> 
> The calculation for GNI, adds the taxes paid on imported goods. GDP does not add taxes paid on imported goods.
> 
> How nifty they found a way to make their country look better.    And it's also humorous because they calculated 'per capita'.   But tell me... where does that value go?   In Cuba, the value of exported Sugar, and the value of tourism income.... doesn't go to the public.   No no.....  it goes to the government.    So while the "per capita" income looks to be higher than Bolivia... in reality the "capita" of Bolivia is actually getting that money.   The "capita" of Cuba, is getting virtually nothing.   $15 a month is the average wage.
> 
> *Health....  Again, we've covered this*.  Doctors in Cuba specifically do not report patient deaths, because doing so could lose them their jobs.  We know this from numerous doctors who have defected to other countries, including Bolivia and other latin countries and the US, and they have said as much.   Those numbers are simply lies.
> 
> *Education*....   All true... and who cares?    Education for educations sake, is pointless and irrelevant.   There are no jobs in Cuba for an engineer.  So getting a degree in engineering, is pointless.   There is a documentary called "Cuba: Waiting for a Revolution".  In this documentary, one of the people they interviewed was a guy going to university in Cuba.  He was getting a degree, so that he could get a job..... as a waiter.     Yes.... as a waiter.   A university degree, to get a job as a waiter at the resorts.
> 
> You need a degree to get a really high end, high pay job in Cuba.... as a waiter.
> 
> Watch the documentary yourself on youtube if you want.   I won't post the video here, because this response is long enough.   Just punch in "Cuba: Waiting for a Revolution" in youtube. It will come up.
> 
> Now tell me, who gives a crap how much education there is in Cuba, when the best you can hope for is a job as a waiter?   Yay, free education!   Go Bernie!   If can just get Bernie to adopt Socialism and free education like Cuba.... You too can get your degree, so you can work as a waiter!
> 
> *Bottom line.....   That picture and all it's stats, and the "Cuba isn't so bad".... all of that is crap. Total BS.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What is all this fuzz??
> 
> This is comparison of 3 similar countries in United Nations Human Development Index.
> 
> We are aware western countries are all great and magnificent and strong and powerful and rich and this and that and all the other bullshit you care sooo much about.
> 
> *But;* comparing to other similar countries (despite Cuba being the only one crushed under embargo) Cuba, *relatively speaking*(seems like you don't know the meaning but, here ya go), is in a pretty good shape by themselves.
> 
> If there was no embargo, they probably would have been in a much better shape.
> 
> The real test is up coming for them however. We shall see.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You compared Cuba to Bolivia and Venezuela.  Both of which are socialist hell holes.     Yes, if you compare my trash can, to a dumpster, and a land fill, the trash can sure seems like it's "on par".      Compare Cuba to Chile, or Brazil.
> 
> Moreover, it's funny how there is always some ignorant moron, trying to tell me that Cuba isn't so bad, when the fact is, people defect from Cuba ALL THE TIME.   PEOPLE FLEEING FROM CUBA CONSTANTLY.    All your BS and propaganda, doesn't change the fact the Cuba has to place ARMED GUARDS around their doctors missions, to keep the doctors from running away and defecting.   These doctors are paying off offices, upwards of THOUSANDS of dollars, to escape from Cuba.
> 
> When you have to place guards around your citizens, to keep them from leaving..... hello idiot!  Your BS crap isn't true.  Apparently it isn't "not all that bad", or you wouldn't need to prevent people from leaving.
> 
> Again, I answered everything in your post.  You have ignored all of my responses, indicating you can't answer them.
> 
> They are not in pretty good shape. Not even close.    Moreover, Cuba is not "crushed under embargo".  Already proved conclusively that Cuba has more trade, than they do GDP.   They actually import more goods, than the entire country produces in a year.
> 
> The embargo doesn't stop Cuba from trading with literally everyone... but us.   Funny how we have Tommy's post over there worried that trading with Cuba, will allow "western countries to rape Cuba", and here you are telling me, it's because of us not trading with Cuba (even though everyone else is), that has crushed Cuba.
> 
> You people can't even figure out your own positions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Venezuela was a pretty capitalist country at some point, as well as Bolivia.
> 
> You don't get the point.
> 
> Regardless of what they are, we are comparing where they have ended up. And we can see, even tho she has been crumbling under the embargo, Cuba is not too bad, (again) *relatively speaking*.
> 
> The reason you have Cubans flowing into US, is because US has a law in place that provides asylum status to Cuban people. I don't have to prove what would happen if same law was applied for Mexico, or Venezuela, or Bolivia.
> 
> I don't think you are able to see the big picture here. You are living in a pink fairy tale bubble. You are not able to see the struggles of people from around the world.
> 
> If you had the chance one day, and got outside your comfy bubble, and go around the world, you could understand why Cuba is not so bad after all............
Click to expand...


Why So Many Venezuelans Are Desperate To Leave

“What most students want is to graduate and leave Venezuela.”

Economic crisis, political strife drive Venezuela brain-drain

"I only have one friend left in Venezuela," Pereira added in a telephone interview from Houston, where she moved five months ago with her husband and daughter. "Everyone has left."

Endless excuses with you people.  Endless excuses and ignorance. 

Venezuela is a socialist hell hole.  Over 1 Million of Venezuelas population of just 26 Million, have left the country.

The BBC did a documentary on the exodus of Venezuelians, and interviewed a real estate company in Florida, called "PLAN B DE VENEZUELA USA. L.L.C.".

It's a real estate company.
PLAN B DE VENEZUELA USA. L.L.C.

They specialize in helping Venezualians buy Florida property.   The BBC was interviewing the lady who started the business.  She changed the name of the company to Plan B de Venezuala, because so many people showed up in her office, saying this was their plan B if Venezuela continued to destroy itself.

And Bolivia....   While it hasn't been completely destroyed by moderate socialist policies, they too have immigrants leaving the country every single year.  Oddly, I happen to know a Bolivian immigrant in the US.



 

The primary reason people move TO Bolivia, is because of the privatizing of farms.   Which has spurred growth in farming.  But beyond that, hundreds of thousands leave the socialist muck that is Bolivia.   BTW, the socialist president just lost a public referendum to allow him to run for a third term.  Apparently, the public isn't entirely supportive after 8 years of decline.

And your explanation that Cubans are granted asylum, and that is the only reason they come here..... then you need to explain why thousands on thousands come here from both Venezuela, and Bolivia, and why hundreds of thousands have left for non-socialist hell hole countries in Latin American.....  It's not because "relatively" it's not that bad.

Again, the only one between you and me, that fails at comprehension, is you.  Understand exactly what you are saying.  Comparing Cuba to other socialist hell holes, they are not that bad.

But compared to any non-socialist hell hole, Cuba sucks crap.


----------



## Andylusion

JQPublic1 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is the courage of Cubans. To leave their country in rafts. Only to face Bill Clinton forcing them back to Cuba in some cases.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More projections of what you wish I said.  Loyal Cubans wouldn't be among those boat people you show...if indeed they are Cubans at all!   Also, you defined every word but the key one: *loyal*. I understand why you didn't.
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> The courage to face the storm troopers of a left-wing president, forcing people back to a left-wing dictator.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean the criminals Castro got rid of  when he had the chance?  Well, a lot of them got through. It is those same criminals who are continuing their anti-social behavior here. Some have also contributed to the very propaganda that you love to spew so much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> No I understood exactly what you said. What you said, was wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you understood what I was saying you are disingenuous. Here is what I said again:
> 
> *"Yet, I understand the courage and sacrifice loyal Cubans exhibit to make those third world countries marginalized by Western civilization, a better place."
> *
> Your interpretation centers on the belief that I was talking about Cubans being marginalized.  That wasn't the thrust of my premise at all. Any  person with a modicum of comprehension can see that. The paragraph was meant to explain the courage and sacrifice 'LOYAL" Cubans were making by providing doctors, medical training and soldiers to all the corners of the globe to help other nations in dire straits. You read that and went off on a completely unrelated tangent like some blathering fool!
Click to expand...


You create your own projections, and then whine about others doing what you have done for a dozen posts.   Now you are a Hypocritical Ignorant fool.

Really... a 10-year-old boy, whose mother died in the waters of the gulf, was a criminal Castro got rid of.   You are an idiot.

Soldiers to help a mass murderer, who used chemical weapons on his own people?   That's courage and sacrifice in your idiotic world?

Doctors who have to be imprisoned by guards to keep them from defecting?   That's courage and sacrifice in your moronically stupid ideology?

You are an idiot.  Purse and simple.  Given endless amounts of evidence, your only real response is "Lalalalala I can't learn anything that doesn't fit my foolish belief system!  Lalalalala!"

You are too dumb to even admit you were wrong.


----------



## sealybobo

alpine said:


> Cuba: Why I Defend Socialism
> 
> "I am a Cuban who has lived for 76 years, therefore I know full well how life was before the revolution, having experienced it directly and indirectly.
> 
> As a result, it hurts me to read so many aspersions cast upon a government that fights tooth and nail to provide us a better life. If it hasn’t fully been able to do so, this is because of the many obstacles that have been put in its way."
> 
> 
> 
> Writer compares Cuba to Bolivia and Venezuela, and I think these examples could be extended by others, which Cuba is doing fairly well against. Especially considering the fact that; Cuba was blockaded by the Super Power of this planet for long and lacked the natural resources.
> 
> Tough job, good work, imo....


I thought it was going to be Ted Cruz' dad


----------



## JQPublic1

Andylusion said:


> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is the courage of Cubans. To leave their country in rafts. Only to face Bill Clinton forcing them back to Cuba in some cases.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More projections of what you wish I said.  Loyal Cubans wouldn't be among those boat people you show...if indeed they are Cubans at all!   Also, you defined every word but the key one: *loyal*. I understand why you didn't.
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> The courage to face the storm troopers of a left-wing president, forcing people back to a left-wing dictator.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean the criminals Castro got rid of  when he had the chance?  Well, a lot of them got through. It is those same criminals who are continuing their anti-social behavior here. Some have also contributed to the very propaganda that you love to spew so much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> No I understood exactly what you said. What you said, was wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you understood what I was saying you are disingenuous. Here is what I said again:
> 
> *"Yet, I understand the courage and sacrifice loyal Cubans exhibit to make those third world countries marginalized by Western civilization, a better place."
> *
> Your interpretation centers on the belief that I was talking about Cubans being marginalized.  That wasn't the thrust of my premise at all. Any  person with a modicum of comprehension can see that. The paragraph was meant to explain the courage and sacrifice 'LOYAL" Cubans were making by providing doctors, medical training and soldiers to all the corners of the globe to help other nations in dire straits. You read that and went off on a completely unrelated tangent like some blathering fool!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You create your own projections, and then whine about others doing what you have done for a dozen posts.   Now you are a Hypocritical Ignorant fool.
> 
> Really... a 10-year-old boy, whose mother died in the waters of the gulf, was a criminal Castro got rid of.   You are an idiot.
> 
> Soldiers to help a mass murderer, who used chemical weapons on his own people?   That's courage and sacrifice in your idiotic world?
> 
> Doctors who have to be imprisoned by guards to keep them from defecting?   That's courage and sacrifice in your moronically stupid ideology?
> 
> You are an idiot.  Purse and simple.  Given endless amounts of evidence, your only real response is "Lalalalala I can't learn anything that doesn't fit my foolish belief system!  Lalalalala!"
> 
> You are too dumb to even admit you were wrong.
Click to expand...


Anyone can scan the Internet to  find bits and pieces of bad  information to  denigrate ANY country, including America. Uncle Sam has as much  innocent blood on his hands as any other national eponymous figure.  My advice to you is to pull your nose out of all the "conservative" rags you have been reading and try to be more objective.  The entire world has  some input here, not just America and the right wing enemies of Cuba and the enemies of anyone who isn't a RW nutcase.

I have made my case and the more in-depth I make it, the more hostile and belligerent you become. Stop and think for a  moment.  Many of the world's leaders do NOT hold the slanted views you have of Cuba. The bigger picture is that Cuba is a godsend for millions of underserved and developing nations. That overrides any talk of  Castro being a tyrannical dictator who cares naught for humanity.
If  the Cuban revolution has caused some collateral damage, it pales by comparison to that caused by the USA and Europe.

I won't even attempt to say that I think Cuba is an Island Shan-gri- la. Some of the allegations you make could be true. *But i don't see world opinion turning against Castro and he has not been indicted by the World Court  for committing crimes against humanity.  That doesn't jibe with your premises!*

Yes, there are Cubans who are seduced through the airwaves by  anti- Castro propaganda beamed from various  sites in the USA, to include a specially equipped airplane that circles the island. Congress sanctioned that!  Although the broadcasts are jammed by Cuban defense systems enough get through to  encourage some to embark across the sea. It should be noted, however, that relatively few are willing to take that risk. Others wouldn't even think of it because they love their country!

As a footnote I ask you to consider the impact Cuba has made on diplomacy around the world...here is a map of Cuban diplomatic missions...it is astounding for such a small nation but  the reality of it proves how admired Cuba is around the world:






Blue indicates  places where Cuban diplomatic missions are.

You can call me names but wouldn't all that pent up anger be more productive by engaging me in an objective investigation of ALL of the facts? Don't waste your time getting stressed out, it accomplishes nothing!


----------



## Andylusion

JQPublic1 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is the courage of Cubans. To leave their country in rafts. Only to face Bill Clinton forcing them back to Cuba in some cases.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More projections of what you wish I said.  Loyal Cubans wouldn't be among those boat people you show...if indeed they are Cubans at all!   Also, you defined every word but the key one: *loyal*. I understand why you didn't.
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> The courage to face the storm troopers of a left-wing president, forcing people back to a left-wing dictator.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean the criminals Castro got rid of  when he had the chance?  Well, a lot of them got through. It is those same criminals who are continuing their anti-social behavior here. Some have also contributed to the very propaganda that you love to spew so much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> No I understood exactly what you said. What you said, was wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you understood what I was saying you are disingenuous. Here is what I said again:
> 
> *"Yet, I understand the courage and sacrifice loyal Cubans exhibit to make those third world countries marginalized by Western civilization, a better place."
> *
> Your interpretation centers on the belief that I was talking about Cubans being marginalized.  That wasn't the thrust of my premise at all. Any  person with a modicum of comprehension can see that. The paragraph was meant to explain the courage and sacrifice 'LOYAL" Cubans were making by providing doctors, medical training and soldiers to all the corners of the globe to help other nations in dire straits. You read that and went off on a completely unrelated tangent like some blathering fool!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You create your own projections, and then whine about others doing what you have done for a dozen posts.   Now you are a Hypocritical Ignorant fool.
> 
> Really... a 10-year-old boy, whose mother died in the waters of the gulf, was a criminal Castro got rid of.   You are an idiot.
> 
> Soldiers to help a mass murderer, who used chemical weapons on his own people?   That's courage and sacrifice in your idiotic world?
> 
> Doctors who have to be imprisoned by guards to keep them from defecting?   That's courage and sacrifice in your moronically stupid ideology?
> 
> You are an idiot.  Purse and simple.  Given endless amounts of evidence, your only real response is "Lalalalala I can't learn anything that doesn't fit my foolish belief system!  Lalalalala!"
> 
> You are too dumb to even admit you were wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Anyone can scan the Internet to  find bits and pieces of bad  information to  denigrate ANY country, including America. Uncle Sam has as much  innocent blood on his hands as any other national eponymous figure.  My advice to you is to pull your nose out of all the "conservative" rags you have been reading and try to be more objective.  The entire world has  some input here, not just America and the right wing enemies of Cuba and the enemies of anyone who isn't a RW nutcase.
> 
> I have made my case and the more in-depth I make it, the more hostile and belligerent you become. Stop and think for a  moment.  Many of the world's leaders do NOT hold the slanted views you have of Cuba. The bigger picture is that Cuba is a godsend for millions of underserved and developing nations. That overrides any talk of  Castro being a tyrannical dictator who cares naught for humanity.
> If  the Cuban revolution has caused some collateral damage, it pales by comparison to that caused by the USA and Europe.
> 
> I won't even attempt to say that I think Cuba is an Island Shan-gri- la. Some of the allegations you make could be true. *But i don't see world opinion turning against Castro and he has not been indicted by the World Court  for committing crimes against humanity.  That doesn't jibe with your premises!*
> 
> Yes, there are Cubans who are seduced through the airwaves by  anti- Castro propaganda beamed from various  sites in the USA, to include a specially equipped airplane that circles the island. Congress sanctioned that!  Although the broadcasts are jammed by Cuban defense systems enough get through to  encourage some to embark across the sea. It should be noted, however, that relatively few are willing to take that risk. Others wouldn't even think of it because they love their country!
> 
> As a footnote I ask you to consider the impact Cuba has made on diplomacy around the world...here is a map of Cuban diplomatic missions...it is astounding for such a small nation but  the reality of it proves how admired Cuba is around the world:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blue indicates  places where Cuban diplomatic missions are.
> 
> You can call me names but wouldn't all that pent up anger be more productive by engaging me in an objective investigation of ALL of the facts? Don't waste your time getting stressed out, it accomplishes nothing!
Click to expand...


I'm not stressed about anything.  At best you are a hilarious delusional joke.   How can I possibly be stressed, when I've spent that last dozens posts mocking your ignorance and stupidity?

You can't deny, or even argue about the information I've posted.  You can't contradict a single facts I've given.  You can't even admit you were wrong, when I posted information directly contradicting your claims.

Why would I be stressed, because YOU are a brainless arrogant, uninformed idiot?    The only one who even should be stressed is you, but you are too dumb to even be stressed by your own ignorance.   If I met someone who knew twice as much as I did about a particular topic, and proved me wrong repeatedly, I would be stressed, to learn enough so that I would no longer come across as a moronic fool.

You apparently are so much like Forest Gump, that you are not even stressed by your own stupidity.

This entire thread is a shrine of your ignorance, and you are arrogant about it.

Then you want to put emphasis the "The world opinion".... blaw blaw blaw?   Who the heck cares about world opinion?   People are living on $15 a month, and you think "world opinion" is even remotely important compared to that fact?    Opinion is more important than fact, in your left-wing socialist hell?

You are an idiot.  This thread is the shrine to your idiocy.   Bow to your stupidity moron.   Keep going.  Make yourself less credible with every post.    Keep going dude!  Dig your socialist hell hole, and bury yourself in it.


----------



## JQPublic1

Andylusion said:


> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is the courage of Cubans. To leave their country in rafts. Only to face Bill Clinton forcing them back to Cuba in some cases.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More projections of what you wish I said.  Loyal Cubans wouldn't be among those boat people you show...if indeed they are Cubans at all!   Also, you defined every word but the key one: *loyal*. I understand why you didn't.
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> The courage to face the storm troopers of a left-wing president, forcing people back to a left-wing dictator.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean the criminals Castro got rid of  when he had the chance?  Well, a lot of them got through. It is those same criminals who are continuing their anti-social behavior here. Some have also contributed to the very propaganda that you love to spew so much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> No I understood exactly what you said. What you said, was wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you understood what I was saying you are disingenuous. Here is what I said again:
> 
> *"Yet, I understand the courage and sacrifice loyal Cubans exhibit to make those third world countries marginalized by Western civilization, a better place."
> *
> Your interpretation centers on the belief that I was talking about Cubans being marginalized.  That wasn't the thrust of my premise at all. Any  person with a modicum of comprehension can see that. The paragraph was meant to explain the courage and sacrifice 'LOYAL" Cubans were making by providing doctors, medical training and soldiers to all the corners of the globe to help other nations in dire straits. You read that and went off on a completely unrelated tangent like some blathering fool!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You create your own projections, and then whine about others doing what you have done for a dozen posts.   Now you are a Hypocritical Ignorant fool.
> 
> Really... a 10-year-old boy, whose mother died in the waters of the gulf, was a criminal Castro got rid of.   You are an idiot.
> 
> Soldiers to help a mass murderer, who used chemical weapons on his own people?   That's courage and sacrifice in your idiotic world?
> 
> Doctors who have to be imprisoned by guards to keep them from defecting?   That's courage and sacrifice in your moronically stupid ideology?
> 
> You are an idiot.  Purse and simple.  Given endless amounts of evidence, your only real response is "Lalalalala I can't learn anything that doesn't fit my foolish belief system!  Lalalalala!"
> 
> You are too dumb to even admit you were wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Anyone can scan the Internet to  find bits and pieces of bad  information to  denigrate ANY country, including America. Uncle Sam has as much  innocent blood on his hands as any other national eponymous figure.  My advice to you is to pull your nose out of all the "conservative" rags you have been reading and try to be more objective.  The entire world has  some input here, not just America and the right wing enemies of Cuba and the enemies of anyone who isn't a RW nutcase.
> 
> I have made my case and the more in-depth I make it, the more hostile and belligerent you become. Stop and think for a  moment.  Many of the world's leaders do NOT hold the slanted views you have of Cuba. The bigger picture is that Cuba is a godsend for millions of underserved and developing nations. That overrides any talk of  Castro being a tyrannical dictator who cares naught for humanity.
> If  the Cuban revolution has caused some collateral damage, it pales by comparison to that caused by the USA and Europe.
> 
> I won't even attempt to say that I think Cuba is an Island Shan-gri- la. Some of the allegations you make could be true. *But i don't see world opinion turning against Castro and he has not been indicted by the World Court  for committing crimes against humanity.  That doesn't jibe with your premises!*
> 
> Yes, there are Cubans who are seduced through the airwaves by  anti- Castro propaganda beamed from various  sites in the USA, to include a specially equipped airplane that circles the island. Congress sanctioned that!  Although the broadcasts are jammed by Cuban defense systems enough get through to  encourage some to embark across the sea. It should be noted, however, that relatively few are willing to take that risk. Others wouldn't even think of it because they love their country!
> 
> As a footnote I ask you to consider the impact Cuba has made on diplomacy around the world...here is a map of Cuban diplomatic missions...it is astounding for such a small nation but  the reality of it proves how admired Cuba is around the world:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blue indicates  places where Cuban diplomatic missions are.
> 
> You can call me names but wouldn't all that pent up anger be more productive by engaging me in an objective investigation of ALL of the facts? Don't waste your time getting stressed out, it accomplishes nothing!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not stressed about anything.  At best you are a hilarious delusional joke.   How can I possibly be stressed, when I've spent that last dozens posts mocking your ignorance and stupidity?
> 
> You can't deny, or even argue about the information I've posted.  You can't contradict a single facts I've given.  You can't even admit you were wrong, when I posted information directly contradicting your claims.
> 
> Why would I be stressed, because YOU are a brainless arrogant, uninformed idiot?    The only one who even should be stressed is you, but you are too dumb to even be stressed by your own ignorance.   If I met someone who knew twice as much as I did about a particular topic, and proved me wrong repeatedly, I would be stressed, to learn enough so that I would no longer come across as a moronic fool.
> 
> You apparently are so much like Forest Gump, that you are not even stressed by your own stupidity.
> 
> This entire thread is a shrine of your ignorance, and you are arrogant about it.
> 
> Then you want to put emphasis the "The world opinion".... blaw blaw blaw?   Who the heck cares about world opinion?   People are living on $15 a month, and you think "world opinion" is even remotely important compared to that fact?    Opinion is more important than fact, in your left-wing socialist hell?
> 
> You are an idiot.  This thread is the shrine to your idiocy.   Bow to your stupidity moron.   Keep going.  Make yourself less credible with every post.    Keep going dude!  Dig your socialist hell hole, and bury yourself in it.
Click to expand...

You have turned your  input in this exchange into a puerile temper tantrum . Ad hominem dribble drips from your lips like  froth from the mouth of a mad dog.  That observance prompts me to just bow out. You have nothing constructive to add so there is no purpose for me to engage you further.

I will add that the points I made did not materialize out of thin air. 

1. Cuba's ELAM is one of the greatest altruistic gestures on earth.

 2.Castro has been consistent in his dedication to the health and well being of third world nations        around the world. to include helping to end apartheid in South Africa.

3. I guess, according to you, the Pope, Pierre Trudeau, Mandela and me were/are idiots for admiring what Castro has done for  countless third world entities and for his own people.

Lastly, I must  confess, that  reports of torture and other human right's violations are disturbing to me. If true, I wouldn't condone any of that. Yet, in light of all the USA has done to topple Castro's regime, I am skeptical  about any  negative reports coming from the USA pertaining to Cuba. You and I both can only judge the extent of Cuba's human right's issues through the eyes of refugees, by actually going there or news media. I took it a step further when I understood that if Castro's "crimes" were as  atrocious as you make them to be, Cuba would not be a member of the UN and Castro would have been indicted by the World Court. Until THAT happens I guess I will continue to
give Cuba the benefit of the doubt.   Good day...


----------



## Andylusion

JQPublic1 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is the courage of Cubans. To leave their country in rafts. Only to face Bill Clinton forcing them back to Cuba in some cases.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More projections of what you wish I said.  Loyal Cubans wouldn't be among those boat people you show...if indeed they are Cubans at all!   Also, you defined every word but the key one: *loyal*. I understand why you didn't.
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> The courage to face the storm troopers of a left-wing president, forcing people back to a left-wing dictator.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean the criminals Castro got rid of  when he had the chance?  Well, a lot of them got through. It is those same criminals who are continuing their anti-social behavior here. Some have also contributed to the very propaganda that you love to spew so much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> No I understood exactly what you said. What you said, was wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you understood what I was saying you are disingenuous. Here is what I said again:
> 
> *"Yet, I understand the courage and sacrifice loyal Cubans exhibit to make those third world countries marginalized by Western civilization, a better place."
> *
> Your interpretation centers on the belief that I was talking about Cubans being marginalized.  That wasn't the thrust of my premise at all. Any  person with a modicum of comprehension can see that. The paragraph was meant to explain the courage and sacrifice 'LOYAL" Cubans were making by providing doctors, medical training and soldiers to all the corners of the globe to help other nations in dire straits. You read that and went off on a completely unrelated tangent like some blathering fool!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You create your own projections, and then whine about others doing what you have done for a dozen posts.   Now you are a Hypocritical Ignorant fool.
> 
> Really... a 10-year-old boy, whose mother died in the waters of the gulf, was a criminal Castro got rid of.   You are an idiot.
> 
> Soldiers to help a mass murderer, who used chemical weapons on his own people?   That's courage and sacrifice in your idiotic world?
> 
> Doctors who have to be imprisoned by guards to keep them from defecting?   That's courage and sacrifice in your moronically stupid ideology?
> 
> You are an idiot.  Purse and simple.  Given endless amounts of evidence, your only real response is "Lalalalala I can't learn anything that doesn't fit my foolish belief system!  Lalalalala!"
> 
> You are too dumb to even admit you were wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Anyone can scan the Internet to  find bits and pieces of bad  information to  denigrate ANY country, including America. Uncle Sam has as much  innocent blood on his hands as any other national eponymous figure.  My advice to you is to pull your nose out of all the "conservative" rags you have been reading and try to be more objective.  The entire world has  some input here, not just America and the right wing enemies of Cuba and the enemies of anyone who isn't a RW nutcase.
> 
> I have made my case and the more in-depth I make it, the more hostile and belligerent you become. Stop and think for a  moment.  Many of the world's leaders do NOT hold the slanted views you have of Cuba. The bigger picture is that Cuba is a godsend for millions of underserved and developing nations. That overrides any talk of  Castro being a tyrannical dictator who cares naught for humanity.
> If  the Cuban revolution has caused some collateral damage, it pales by comparison to that caused by the USA and Europe.
> 
> I won't even attempt to say that I think Cuba is an Island Shan-gri- la. Some of the allegations you make could be true. *But i don't see world opinion turning against Castro and he has not been indicted by the World Court  for committing crimes against humanity.  That doesn't jibe with your premises!*
> 
> Yes, there are Cubans who are seduced through the airwaves by  anti- Castro propaganda beamed from various  sites in the USA, to include a specially equipped airplane that circles the island. Congress sanctioned that!  Although the broadcasts are jammed by Cuban defense systems enough get through to  encourage some to embark across the sea. It should be noted, however, that relatively few are willing to take that risk. Others wouldn't even think of it because they love their country!
> 
> As a footnote I ask you to consider the impact Cuba has made on diplomacy around the world...here is a map of Cuban diplomatic missions...it is astounding for such a small nation but  the reality of it proves how admired Cuba is around the world:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blue indicates  places where Cuban diplomatic missions are.
> 
> You can call me names but wouldn't all that pent up anger be more productive by engaging me in an objective investigation of ALL of the facts? Don't waste your time getting stressed out, it accomplishes nothing!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not stressed about anything.  At best you are a hilarious delusional joke.   How can I possibly be stressed, when I've spent that last dozens posts mocking your ignorance and stupidity?
> 
> You can't deny, or even argue about the information I've posted.  You can't contradict a single facts I've given.  You can't even admit you were wrong, when I posted information directly contradicting your claims.
> 
> Why would I be stressed, because YOU are a brainless arrogant, uninformed idiot?    The only one who even should be stressed is you, but you are too dumb to even be stressed by your own ignorance.   If I met someone who knew twice as much as I did about a particular topic, and proved me wrong repeatedly, I would be stressed, to learn enough so that I would no longer come across as a moronic fool.
> 
> You apparently are so much like Forest Gump, that you are not even stressed by your own stupidity.
> 
> This entire thread is a shrine of your ignorance, and you are arrogant about it.
> 
> Then you want to put emphasis the "The world opinion".... blaw blaw blaw?   Who the heck cares about world opinion?   People are living on $15 a month, and you think "world opinion" is even remotely important compared to that fact?    Opinion is more important than fact, in your left-wing socialist hell?
> 
> You are an idiot.  This thread is the shrine to your idiocy.   Bow to your stupidity moron.   Keep going.  Make yourself less credible with every post.    Keep going dude!  Dig your socialist hell hole, and bury yourself in it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have turned your  input in this exchange into a puerile temper tantrum . Ad hominem dribble drips from your lips like  froth from the mouth of a mad dog.  That observance prompts me to just bow out. You have nothing constructive to add so there is no purpose for me to engage you further.
> 
> I will add that the points I made did not materialize out of thin air.
> 
> 1. Cuba's ELAM is one of the greatest altruistic gestures on earth.
> 
> 2.Castro has been consistent in his dedication to the health and well being of third world nations        around the world. to include helping to end apartheid in South Africa.
> 
> 3. I guess, according to you, the Pope, Pierre Trudeau, Mandela and me were/are idiots for admiring what Castro has done for  countless third world entities and for his own people.
> 
> Lastly, I must  confess, that  reports of torture and other human right's violations are disturbing to me. If true, I wouldn't condone any of that. Yet, in light of all the USA has done to topple Castro's regime, I am skeptical  about any  negative reports coming from the USA pertaining to Cuba. You and I both can only judge the extent of Cuba's human right's issues through the eyes of refugees, by actually going there or news media. I took it a step further when I understood that if Castro's "crimes" were as  atrocious as you make them to be, Cuba would not be a member of the UN and Castro would have been indicted by the World Court. Until THAT happens I guess I will continue to
> give Cuba the benefit of the doubt.   Good day...
Click to expand...


I can't help it that I find you so hilariously ignorant, that I get great joy at pointing it out.  You may consider it a character flaw, that find arrogant ignorant idiots like you, very very funny.  

But I will once again, expose the ignorance of your posts with facts, to destroy your mindless opinion.

ELAM.

Doctors in Cuba are horrible.   They barely have the training to work as a nurse in the US.   But maybe that is simply because our standards are so high.  Perhaps Cuban ELAM Doctors are more than enough to suffice in other lesser, poorer countries.

Costa Rica rejects high number of medical graduates from Cuba - University World News

“Taking into account that some who will practice as doctors in Costa Rica come from foreign universities, we have to make sure they understand the particulars of our national medicine,” he told news sources.

“We made the decision to institute a general exam that evaluates their knowledge of basic subject matters in the curriculum and clinical experience.”

The fact that 43% of those who failed the licensing exam studied in Cuba comes as a surprise to those familiar with the health system there. Doctors from Cuba, a country that has long been known as an epicenter of medicine in Latin America, have been sent all over the world to aid in health missions in disaster zones.​So out of all the foriegn students sent to Costa Rica, from all over the world.... almost half of the ones that failed came from the "epicentre of latin medicine" Cuba.

Graduates of Cuba’s Escuela Latinoamericana de Medicina, or ELAM, are “gravely deficient” in their preparation to practice medicine, the head of Costa Rica’s most celebrated medical school told journalists last month.

Of the 138 graduates who failed the medical licensing exams in Costa Rica, 59 were graduates of ELAM, said Ricardo Boza Cordero, director of the medical programme at the University of Costa Rica.​Gravely deficient, from ELAM.

Now let me back up a second.....  back up...

*There are poor areas of the world, where even a poorly trained Cuba ELAM doctor is better than anything they have currently.*

I am fully admitting this.    I agree with this prior statement 100%.  And I have no doubt that a Cuban doctor sent to a disaster area, is still better than nothing.    No doubt in my mind.

HOWEVER....   you are still 100% wrong about this statement "greatest altruistic gestures on earth".

BULL CRAP YOU IDIOT.  YOU MINDLESS STUPID FOOL! 

Cuba’s Slave Trade in Doctors

Cuba is winning accolades for its international “doctor diplomacy,” in which it sends temporary medical professionals abroad—ostensibly to help poor countries battle disease and improve health care. But the doctors are not a gift from Cuba. Havana *is paid* for its medical missions by either the host country, in the case of Venezuela, or by donor countries that send funds to the World Health Organization. The money is supposed to go to Cuban workers’ salaries. But neither the WHO nor any host country pays Cuban workers directly. *Instead the funds are credited to the account of the dictatorship*, which by all accounts keeps the lion’s share of the payment and gives the worker a stipend to live on with a promise of a bit more upon return to Cuba.​
The communist government is getting paid... either in money directly, or with uncompensated trade.  (we send you doctors, and you send us oil, or whatever).

The doctors, get paid next to nothing, and the Communist government of Cuba makes millions, and you people are too ignorant, blind, and mentally deficient to know it.

You stupid silly, dumb looking morons.

And by the way....  Even if the government wasn't raking in millions sending slave-wage-paid doctors everywhere....  It's still not altruistic.

Are you people so retarded, that you can't logically think that through?

If I come and shove my 9mm in your face, and demand your money, and then use that money to buy a beggar on the street, or send the money to a charity organization in Africa, would you consider me "altruistic"?    How dumb can you be, and still breath?

Now when a government taxes and impoverishes it's ENTIRE POPULATION.... and then uses the money, stolen from the impoverished people, to send some doctors to a disaster zone.... YOU IDIOT... THAT IS NOT BEING ALTRUISTIC.    Even Forest Gump, is smarter than what you are saying now.

Just keep going dude.  Your posts are more hilariously stupid each time.


----------



## Mindful

JQPublic1 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is the courage of Cubans. To leave their country in rafts. Only to face Bill Clinton forcing them back to Cuba in some cases.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More projections of what you wish I said.  Loyal Cubans wouldn't be among those boat people you show...if indeed they are Cubans at all!   Also, you defined every word but the key one: *loyal*. I understand why you didn't.
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> The courage to face the storm troopers of a left-wing president, forcing people back to a left-wing dictator.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean the criminals Castro got rid of  when he had the chance?  Well, a lot of them got through. It is those same criminals who are continuing their anti-social behavior here. Some have also contributed to the very propaganda that you love to spew so much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> No I understood exactly what you said. What you said, was wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you understood what I was saying you are disingenuous. Here is what I said again:
> 
> *"Yet, I understand the courage and sacrifice loyal Cubans exhibit to make those third world countries marginalized by Western civilization, a better place."
> *
> Your interpretation centers on the belief that I was talking about Cubans being marginalized.  That wasn't the thrust of my premise at all. Any  person with a modicum of comprehension can see that. The paragraph was meant to explain the courage and sacrifice 'LOYAL" Cubans were making by providing doctors, medical training and soldiers to all the corners of the globe to help other nations in dire straits. You read that and went off on a completely unrelated tangent like some blathering fool!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You create your own projections, and then whine about others doing what you have done for a dozen posts.   Now you are a Hypocritical Ignorant fool.
> 
> Really... a 10-year-old boy, whose mother died in the waters of the gulf, was a criminal Castro got rid of.   You are an idiot.
> 
> Soldiers to help a mass murderer, who used chemical weapons on his own people?   That's courage and sacrifice in your idiotic world?
> 
> Doctors who have to be imprisoned by guards to keep them from defecting?   That's courage and sacrifice in your moronically stupid ideology?
> 
> You are an idiot.  Purse and simple.  Given endless amounts of evidence, your only real response is "Lalalalala I can't learn anything that doesn't fit my foolish belief system!  Lalalalala!"
> 
> You are too dumb to even admit you were wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Anyone can scan the Internet to  find bits and pieces of bad  information to  denigrate ANY country, including America. Uncle Sam has as much  innocent blood on his hands as any other national eponymous figure.  My advice to you is to pull your nose out of all the "conservative" rags you have been reading and try to be more objective.  The entire world has  some input here, not just America and the right wing enemies of Cuba and the enemies of anyone who isn't a RW nutcase.
> 
> I have made my case and the more in-depth I make it, the more hostile and belligerent you become. Stop and think for a  moment.  Many of the world's leaders do NOT hold the slanted views you have of Cuba. The bigger picture is that Cuba is a godsend for millions of underserved and developing nations. That overrides any talk of  Castro being a tyrannical dictator who cares naught for humanity.
> If  the Cuban revolution has caused some collateral damage, it pales by comparison to that caused by the USA and Europe.
> 
> I won't even attempt to say that I think Cuba is an Island Shan-gri- la. Some of the allegations you make could be true. *But i don't see world opinion turning against Castro and he has not been indicted by the World Court  for committing crimes against humanity.  That doesn't jibe with your premises!*
> 
> Yes, there are Cubans who are seduced through the airwaves by  anti- Castro propaganda beamed from various  sites in the USA, to include a specially equipped airplane that circles the island. Congress sanctioned that!  Although the broadcasts are jammed by Cuban defense systems enough get through to  encourage some to embark across the sea. It should be noted, however, that relatively few are willing to take that risk. Others wouldn't even think of it because they love their country!
> 
> As a footnote I ask you to consider the impact Cuba has made on diplomacy around the world...here is a map of Cuban diplomatic missions...it is astounding for such a small nation but  the reality of it proves how admired Cuba is around the world:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blue indicates  places where Cuban diplomatic missions are.
> 
> You can call me names but wouldn't all that pent up anger be more productive by engaging me in an objective investigation of ALL of the facts? Don't waste your time getting stressed out, it accomplishes nothing!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not stressed about anything.  At best you are a hilarious delusional joke.   How can I possibly be stressed, when I've spent that last dozens posts mocking your ignorance and stupidity?
> 
> You can't deny, or even argue about the information I've posted.  You can't contradict a single facts I've given.  You can't even admit you were wrong, when I posted information directly contradicting your claims.
> 
> Why would I be stressed, because YOU are a brainless arrogant, uninformed idiot?    The only one who even should be stressed is you, but you are too dumb to even be stressed by your own ignorance.   If I met someone who knew twice as much as I did about a particular topic, and proved me wrong repeatedly, I would be stressed, to learn enough so that I would no longer come across as a moronic fool.
> 
> You apparently are so much like Forest Gump, that you are not even stressed by your own stupidity.
> 
> This entire thread is a shrine of your ignorance, and you are arrogant about it.
> 
> Then you want to put emphasis the "The world opinion".... blaw blaw blaw?   Who the heck cares about world opinion?   People are living on $15 a month, and you think "world opinion" is even remotely important compared to that fact?    Opinion is more important than fact, in your left-wing socialist hell?
> 
> You are an idiot.  This thread is the shrine to your idiocy.   Bow to your stupidity moron.   Keep going.  Make yourself less credible with every post.    Keep going dude!  Dig your socialist hell hole, and bury yourself in it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have turned your  input in this exchange into a puerile temper tantrum . Ad hominem dribble drips from your lips like  froth from the mouth of a mad dog.  That observance prompts me to just bow out. You have nothing constructive to add so there is no purpose for me to engage you further.
> 
> I will add that the points I made did not materialize out of thin air.
> 
> 1. Cuba's ELAM is one of the greatest altruistic gestures on earth.
> 
> 2.Castro has been consistent in his dedication to the health and well being of third world nations        around the world. to include helping to end apartheid in South Africa.
> 
> 3. I guess, according to you, the Pope, Pierre Trudeau, Mandela and me were/are idiots for admiring what Castro has done for  countless third world entities and for his own people.
> 
> Lastly, I must  confess, that  reports of torture and other human right's violations are disturbing to me. If true, I wouldn't condone any of that. Yet, in light of all the USA has done to topple Castro's regime, I am skeptical  about any  negative reports coming from the USA pertaining to Cuba. You and I both can only judge the extent of Cuba's human right's issues through the eyes of refugees, by actually going there or news media. I took it a step further when I understood that if Castro's "crimes" were as  atrocious as you make them to be, Cuba would not be a member of the UN and Castro would have been indicted by the World Court. Until THAT happens I guess I will continue to
> give Cuba the benefit of the doubt.   Good day...
Click to expand...



 Castro helped to end Apartheid in South Africa?


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## JQPublic1

Mindful said:


> Castro helped to end Apartheid in South Africa?



You ask a question About Castro and then show a video depicting White poverty in the New South Africa .
What is the point you are trying to make?


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## Mindful

JQPublic1 said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Castro helped to end Apartheid in South Africa?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You ask a question About Castro and then show a video depicting White poverty in the New South Africa .
> What is the point you are trying to make?
Click to expand...


I'm not 'trying' to make a point. I'm 'making' one.

That Apartheid didn't end. White people are now the separate ones.


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## TyroneSlothrop

*The Worlds Largest Economy and the most powerful country turned its fangs on the people of Cuba*

*The foundation of US [Cuba] policy up to the present was laid in the Eisenhower years in an April 1960 State Department guideline:*

[E]very possible means should be undertaken promptly to weaken the economic life of Cuba. . . . a line of action which, while as adroit and inconspicuous as possible, makes the greatest inroads in denying money and supplies to Cuba,* to decrease monetary and real wages, to bring about hunger, desperation and overthrow of the government.* [Office of the Historian, Bureau Of Public Affairs, US Department Of State; John P. Glennon, et al., eds*.,Foreign Relations of the United States, 1958-1960, Volume VI, Cuba - Washington, DC: GPO, 1991, 885.]*


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## TyroneSlothrop

Andylusion said:


> Cuba’s Slave Trade in Doctors








 <---Unhinged 
She is an anti Cuba hack...a shill...
*That Unhinged Mary Anastasia O'Grady Column - The Atlantic*
*We are supposed to conclude that Cuba is no longer a threat to global stability and that Fidel is a reformed tyrant. But how believable is a guy whose revolution all but wiped out Cuba's tiny Jewish community of 15,000, and who spent the past 50 years supporting the terrorism of the Palestinian Liberation Organization, Syria, Libya and Iran? And how does Castro explain Venezuela, where Cuban intelligence agents run things, Iran is an ally and anti-Semitism has been state policy in recent years? Mr. Goldberg doesn't go there with Fidel.*
*"Wiped out"? Is she implying that there are mass graves in Cuba filled with Jews?*


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## TyroneSlothrop

What You Should Know / June 29, 2009
Mary Anastasia O’Grady Confesses: “I Love Deep Throating Right-Wing Military Coups!”




online.wsj.com --

*Click here to read full article...*


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## JQPublic1

Mindful said:


> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Castro helped to end Apartheid in South Africa?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You ask a question About Castro and then show a video depicting White poverty in the New South Africa .
> What is the point you are trying to make?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not 'trying' to make a point. I'm 'making' one.
> 
> That Apartheid didn't end. White people are now the separate ones.
Click to expand...

And you have deduced that by the few pictures you posted? Actually you aren't making any sense.
I see poor Blacks intermingling with poor Whites panhandling together in one picture. That gives me reason to suspect that poor White people  were there all along, just as they are ubiquitously dotting our streets here in the USA.


----------



## Mindful

JQPublic1 said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Castro helped to end Apartheid in South Africa?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You ask a question About Castro and then show a video depicting White poverty in the New South Africa .
> What is the point you are trying to make?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not 'trying' to make a point. I'm 'making' one.
> 
> That Apartheid didn't end. White people are now the separate ones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And you have deduced that by the few pictures you posted? Actually you aren't making any sense.
> I see poor Blacks intermingling with poor Whites panhandling together in one picture. That gives me reason to suspect that poor White people  were there all along, just as they are ubiquitously dotting our streets here in the USA.
Click to expand...


 During  apartheid, the government took care of poor whites. After apartheid, the government isn't giving free handouts anymore. i.e. they stopped taking care of anybody.


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## JQPublic1

Mindful said:


> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JQPublic1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Castro helped to end Apartheid in South Africa?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You ask a question About Castro and then show a video depicting White poverty in the New South Africa .
> What is the point you are trying to make?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not 'trying' to make a point. I'm 'making' one.
> 
> That Apartheid didn't end. White people are now the separate ones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And you have deduced that by the few pictures you posted? Actually you aren't making any sense.
> I see poor Blacks intermingling with poor Whites panhandling together in one picture. That gives me reason to suspect that poor White people  were there all along, just as they are ubiquitously dotting our streets here in the USA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> During  apartheid, the government took care of poor whites. After apartheid, the government isn't giving free handouts anymore. i.e. they stopped taking care of anybody.
Click to expand...

 Do you have a link to that information? It is interesting...I just want to read about it more in depth!


----------

