# Tea Party Conservatives, Taxes & Delusion: Red State Rip Off



## Dante (Apr 19, 2010)

We hear so much from the red states and the Tea Party about taxes. 


There is this to consider when listening to the Tea Party Leaders and Dolts from Red States and their Right Wing Rhetoric vs Reality:

The red state ripoff







and this: http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/113634-taxes-at-lowest-levels-in-60-years.html


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## VaYank5150 (Apr 19, 2010)

Dante said:


> We hear so much from the red states and the Tea Party about taxes.
> 
> 
> There is this to consider when listening to the Tea Party Leaders and Dolts from Red States and their Right Wing Rhetoric vs Reality:
> ...




From your link:



> There is a very strong correlation, then, between a state voting for Republicans and receiving more in federal spending than its residents pay to the federal government in taxes (the rust belt and Texas being notable exceptions). In essence, those in blue states are subsidizing those in red states. Both red and blue states appear to be acting politically in opposition to their economic interests. Blue states are voting for candidates who are likely to continue the policies of red state subsidization while red states are voting for candidates who profess a desire to reduce federal spending (and presumably red state subsidization).



BTW:  Did anyone else notice what color Alaska was.....just sayin'


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## nraforlife (Apr 19, 2010)

Might be interesting to see just how the money is being spent. Likely much of it goes to purposes worse than useless.


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## The Rabbi (Apr 19, 2010)

So there are two possibilities here:
1) People really are stupid.  Not just individuals but collectively, on both sides of the issue.
2) The figures are flawed and don't explain the entire picture.

I'd go with #2.


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## VaYank5150 (Apr 19, 2010)

The Rabbi said:


> So there are two possibilities here:
> 1) People really are stupid.  Not just individuals but collectively, on both sides of the issue.
> 2) The figures are flawed and don't explain the entire picture.
> 
> I'd go with #2.



SHOCKER!


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## The Rabbi (Apr 19, 2010)

VaYank5150 said:


> The Rabbi said:
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Are you admitting to being stupid?


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## VaYank5150 (Apr 19, 2010)

The Rabbi said:


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Yeah....that's it.  Just keep your head up your ass and imagine everyone ELSE is stupid.  See you in November!


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## Vanquish (Apr 19, 2010)

The taxes are the lowest they've been in a LONG time...including the fact that 47% of individuals aren't even required to PAY taxes.

Conservatives don't mind helping businesses with corporate welfare...or farmers with farm subsidies...yet they fear the urban minority welfare cheat

Most conservatives who say they hate taxes probably couldnt muster a valid argument as to how the tax code should be reformed if you asked them...

but somehow they're still all up in arms...

I will be even-handed and say this: if we are forced to pay a VAT AND an income tax...I'll be pissed and revolt.  Abolish the federal income tax and replace it with a national sales tax (that's the fair tax plan)!


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## Dante (Apr 19, 2010)

VaYank5150 said:


> Dante said:
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## Dante (Apr 19, 2010)

nraforlife said:


> Might be interesting to see just how the money is being spent. Likely much of it goes to purposes worse than useless.



Not likely. Try stepping up your game or STFU


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## Dante (Apr 19, 2010)

Vanquish said:


> The taxes are the lowest they've been in a LONG time...including the fact that 47% of individuals aren't even required to PAY taxes.
> 
> Conservatives don't mind helping businesses with corporate welfare...or farmers with farm subsidies...yet they fear the urban minority welfare cheat
> 
> ...



a sales tax is a scheme for the wealthy to pay less. poor people and middle income people pay all their money on things they need. the percentage of their income going to taxes will be higher than it will be for wealthier people. 


sales taxes are regressive whereas income taxes can be progressive. are you wealthy? If not, a sales tax is NOT in your self interest


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## Vanquish (Apr 19, 2010)

The wealthy buy more things than the poor, since they have the money. Yes, it's regressive as it's applied similarly despite different income, but those who buy more, pay more.

I do think that the wealthy have a moral imperative to help those less fortunate.


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## Dante (Apr 19, 2010)

Vanquish said:


> The wealthy buy more things than the poor, since they have the money. Yes, it's regressive as it's applied similarly despite different income, but those who buy more, pay more.
> 
> I do think that the wealthy have a moral imperative to help those less fortunate.



I didn't say they do or don't. I say as a society, we get to say who pays what.


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## Newby (Apr 19, 2010)

Dante said:


> Vanquish said:
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What poor people pay income taxes?


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## The Rabbi (Apr 19, 2010)

VaYank5150 said:


> The Rabbi said:
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I only need to imagine you are stupid, as you've just admitted.  It doesn't take much imagination on my part, btw.


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## Dante (Apr 19, 2010)

Newby said:


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don't bore me. they pay income taxes and instead of a getting a tax break, they get a refund.  there are wealthy individuals and corporations who pay little to no tax you would assume they pay from looking at a tax chart.


wake the fuck up. Unless you are a very wealthy individual or a corporation, a progressive tax and not a regressive tax is the best way to go.

do you deny the sales tax idea is regressive?

what is your point?


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## The Rabbi (Apr 19, 2010)

Dante said:


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Their refund is typically bigger than the taxes they have paid.
Really poor people get their food and housing and who knows what else paid for by the gov't so they dont pay tax on that.
Progressive taxes punish the productive and reward the lazy and unproductive.  That's no way to improve the economy.


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## Dante (Apr 19, 2010)

The Rabbi said:


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Their refund is typically bigger than the taxes they have paid: true today. Not always the case. Raise the standard of living while leaving the poor and middle class behind and this si what you get. Viva the Reagan Revolution! The poor of today---many were yestreday's middle class

Really poor people get their food and housing and who knows what else paid for by the gov't so they dont pay tax on that.: Really poor people all get food and housing? I guess that explains all the homeless shelters, and soup kitchens and food banks and food pantries. Great life the really poor have. Where do I sign up? 

Progressive taxes punish the productive and reward the lazy and unproductive.  That's no way to improve the economy: Really? That explains the growth of America since the inception of the income tax. Americans had a wonderful life pre-income tax era. 

The whole ownership society bullshit went down the drain with the economy and the last bubble. The productive are not always productive out of greed. It is a nature of the beast. The lazy and unproductive have such wonderful lives? Most live in misery---a misery of their own making in many cases, I agree, but...

where the fuck do you live?


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## The Rabbi (Apr 19, 2010)

Actually most of today's middle class were yesterday's poor.  And almost all of today's rich were yesterday's middle class and poor.
Sorry to disturb your class envy fantasies.  I live in America, land of opportunity, where millions of dirt poor immigrants still are literally dying to get here to get a chance at a much better life.
Maybe you should try North Korea sometime.  No corporations there.


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## Newby (Apr 19, 2010)

Dante said:


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My point is that poor people do not pay federal income taxes to begin with, so your rant is moot.


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## Truthmatters (Apr 19, 2010)

Top US Marginal Income Tax Rates, 1913--2003 (TruthAndPolitics.org)


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## Dante (Apr 19, 2010)

The Rabbi said:


> Actually most of today's middle class were yesterday's poor.  And almost all of today's rich were yesterday's middle class and poor.
> Sorry to disturb your class envy fantasies.  I live in America, land of opportunity, where millions of dirt poor immigrants still are literally dying to get here to get a chance at a much better life.
> Maybe you should try North Korea sometime.  No corporations there.



really?  how far back did you have to go to pull this out of your ass?

Ronald Reagan and his acolytes have left the middle class behind.


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## Dante (Apr 19, 2010)

Newby said:


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Depends on your definition of poor.

All working class stiffs pay income taxes. The fact that they get refunds the size they do is s reflection of the bankrupt growth the US has experienced over the last 30-40 years.


Factual representations that upset you are qualified as rants? Why the fuck are you even on a public message board?


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## Dante (Apr 19, 2010)

Truthmatters said:


> Top US Marginal Income Tax Rates, 1913--2003 (TruthAndPolitics.org)



Tax Facts | Tax Facts home


*The Undeclared War on America's Middle Class*
Under the guise of free market capitalism, conservative policies have made 80-hour work weeks the norm. Working harder for less money means middle class families are getting screwed. -The Undeclared War on America's Middle Class


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## Gunny (Apr 19, 2010)

Dante said:


> We hear so much from the red states and the Tea Party about taxes.
> 
> 
> There is this to consider when listening to the Tea Party Leaders and Dolts from Red States and their Right Wing Rhetoric vs Reality:
> ...



You mispelled "illusion" cuz that's all YOU'RE trying to sell.


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## Dante (Apr 19, 2010)

Gunny said:


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naw, delusion not illusion.


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## Care4all (Apr 19, 2010)

Newby said:


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the ones who pay SS, their surplus SS taxes have BEEN USED by the treasury to PAY for what income taxes should have been paying....so THEY ARE helping to pay the bill...if we are honest about it.

income taxes on us would be MUCH HIGHER if it were not for the SS surplus being used.


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## Dante (Apr 19, 2010)

Care4all said:


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## Newby (Apr 19, 2010)

Care4all said:


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There's no more SS surplus, it's gone.  And those paying into it SHOULD get it back out at some time, it's not the same thing as federal income tax.  But, that's all going to come to a boiling point here in the near future, probably just about when we would have started collecting.  It should get very interesting.  Hopefully people our age are not depending on SS to be there for them.


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## Dante (Apr 19, 2010)

Newby said:


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don't worry sweetie, the adults will fix it before that times comes. they always do. 


now go back to playing with yourself.


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## Newby (Apr 19, 2010)

Dante said:


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What a mature response, but not unexpected from the likes of you.  The adults are the ones that will bail your asses out when everything you're doing comes crashing down around you.


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## Dante (Apr 19, 2010)

Newby said:


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mature response? you are looking for mature responses here?  

Hey pal, this place is full of pedantic buffoons, hyperactive trolls, pseudo-intellectuals and other assorted misanthropes. get a fucking clue.

Having a Jerry Springer moment counts for more around here than some bullshit point you are struggling to make. 


nuf said


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