# Who is the Greatest QB of All Time?



## Papageorgio

Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time? 

What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.


Make your case of who is the greatest.


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## ChrisL

Tom Brady.  The proof is in last night's game.  One important part of being a good QB is being a good leader and being able to lead the team to victory.  To be able to keep the fire in the bellies of the players last night was pretty darn good leadership and motivational skills, considering how far behind they were.  However, they never gave up and kept on fighting until the end and that is all due to good leadership and incredible motivation and determination.


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## william the wie

I went with Terry Bradshaw because of Brady working with the much better coach and organization but I consider it more of a photo finish than a runaway win. The Pats do well even without Brady


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## Wry Catcher

Papageorgio said:


> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.



Montana:  Leadership, Control of Emotions, clock management, accuracy of passes, field of vision and the ability to run if and when necessary.

One example:  In the final minutes of the 1989 Super Bowl Montana led an 11-play, 92-yard drive to score the winning touchdown. In order to calm his teammates in the huddle just before the final game-winning drive, Montana pointed into the stadium crowd and said "Hey, isn't that John Candy?"

Then and there he earned the nickname, Joe Cool.


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## Mikeoxenormous

Papageorgio said:


> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.


Who has the most super bowl appearances and rings?  Patriots and Brady are not my team, but they are winners.


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## Manonthestreet

I think Elway is out of place on that list,


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## CrusaderFrank

Wry Catcher said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montana:  Leadership, Control of Emotions, clock management, accuracy of passes, field of vision and the ability to run if and when necessary.
> 
> One example:  In the final minutes of the 1989 Super Bowl Montana led an 11-play, 92-yard drive to score the winning touchdown. In order to calm his teammates in the huddle just before the final game-winning drive, Montana pointed into the stadium crowd and said "Hey, isn't that John Candy?"
> 
> Then and there he earned the nickname, Joe Cool.
Click to expand...


^ This.  Credit where due

Might want to put Eli Manning up for consideration as well. Without hitting David Tyrell on the helmet Brady would be 6-1


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## Papageorgio

Manonthestreet said:


> I think Elway is out of place on that list,



What do you mean out of place? Are you saying he shouldn't be on there?


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## ChrisL

CrusaderFrank said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montana:  Leadership, Control of Emotions, clock management, accuracy of passes, field of vision and the ability to run if and when necessary.
> 
> One example:  In the final minutes of the 1989 Super Bowl Montana led an 11-play, 92-yard drive to score the winning touchdown. In order to calm his teammates in the huddle just before the final game-winning drive, Montana pointed into the stadium crowd and said "Hey, isn't that John Candy?"
> 
> Then and there he earned the nickname, Joe Cool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ^ This.  Credit where due
> 
> Might want to put Eli Manning up for consideration as well. Without hitting David Tyrell on the helmet Brady would be 6-1
Click to expand...


Lucky catch is all that was!  Dumb luck is what you would call it!


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## Manonthestreet

Papageorgio said:


> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Elway is out of place on that list,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean out of place? Are you saying he shouldn't be on there?
Click to expand...

That is what I meant......I got to watch him a lot in college as my roommates were from CO,,,Tommy Kramer was our QB at the time....to be honest they seemed pretty comparable. I dont think winning a SuperBowl or 2 necessarily elevates you to this discussion.....


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## yiostheoy

Papageorgio said:


> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.


Two of Brady's rings are from pure luck.

Those should not count.

That leaves Bradshaw and Montana.

Hard to say which of Bradshaw or Montana was best.

Bradshaw was tougher.

Montana was smarter.


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## yiostheoy

The favorite in the poll so far is Montana.

I would not disagree with that.


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## Papageorgio

ChrisL said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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> Wry Catcher said:
> 
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> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montana:  Leadership, Control of Emotions, clock management, accuracy of passes, field of vision and the ability to run if and when necessary.
> 
> One example:  In the final minutes of the 1989 Super Bowl Montana led an 11-play, 92-yard drive to score the winning touchdown. In order to calm his teammates in the huddle just before the final game-winning drive, Montana pointed into the stadium crowd and said "Hey, isn't that John Candy?"
> 
> Then and there he earned the nickname, Joe Cool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ^ This.  Credit where due
> 
> Might want to put Eli Manning up for consideration as well. Without hitting David Tyrell on the helmet Brady would be 6-1
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lucky catch is all that was!  Dumb luck is what you would call it!
Click to expand...


Sort of like last night's catch?


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## Papageorgio

yiostheoy said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.
> 
> 
> 
> Two of Brady's rings are from pure luck.
> 
> Those should not count.
> 
> That leaves Bradshaw and Montana.
> 
> Hard to say which of Bradshaw or Montana was best.
> 
> Bradshaw was tougher.
> 
> Montana was smarter.
Click to expand...


You could say luck caused the Pats to lose the Giants game.


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## Unkotare

yiostheoy said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.
> 
> 
> 
> Two of Brady's rings are from pure luck.
> 
> Those should not count.
> 
> That leaves Bradshaw and Montana.
> 
> Hard to say which of Bradshaw or Montana was best.
> 
> Bradshaw was tougher.
> 
> Montana was smarter.
Click to expand...


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## Papageorgio

Wry Catcher said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montana:  Leadership, Control of Emotions, clock management, accuracy of passes, field of vision and the ability to run if and when necessary.
> 
> One example:  In the final minutes of the 1989 Super Bowl Montana led an 11-play, 92-yard drive to score the winning touchdown. In order to calm his teammates in the huddle just before the final game-winning drive, Montana pointed into the stadium crowd and said "Hey, isn't that John Candy?"
> 
> Then and there he earned the nickname, Joe Cool.
Click to expand...


So leading a team from 25 down and orchestrating a 91 yard drive to tie, isn't leadership and being calm under pressure?


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## Decus

Montana and Brady are both excellent quarterbacks but my vote is for Bradshaw. 

Bradshaw called his own plays whereas Montana and Brady's plays were sent in and they were free to change them. but they both benefited from the assistance of the coaches. "Calling your own plays" puts all the responsibility on the play caller.
Bradshaw played before "roughing the passer" or "feet forward sliding rules" provided greater protection to quarterbacks. The game was a bit rougher then.

Bradshaw had an incredible arm and could hit receivers with accuracy 50 yards or more down field.
Bradshaw never let the taunts (calling him dumb) get to him, and kept winning. Not easy to win through that kind of adversity.
Off the field Bradshaw has a sense of humour, something that neither Montana or Brady are known for. 

.


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## ChrisL

Papageorgio said:


> ChrisL said:
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> CrusaderFrank said:
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> Wry Catcher said:
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> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montana:  Leadership, Control of Emotions, clock management, accuracy of passes, field of vision and the ability to run if and when necessary.
> 
> One example:  In the final minutes of the 1989 Super Bowl Montana led an 11-play, 92-yard drive to score the winning touchdown. In order to calm his teammates in the huddle just before the final game-winning drive, Montana pointed into the stadium crowd and said "Hey, isn't that John Candy?"
> 
> Then and there he earned the nickname, Joe Cool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ^ This.  Credit where due
> 
> Might want to put Eli Manning up for consideration as well. Without hitting David Tyrell on the helmet Brady would be 6-1
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lucky catch is all that was!  Dumb luck is what you would call it!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sort of like last night's catch?
Click to expand...


No.  Who caught a ball on top of his head?


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## Papageorgio

ChrisL said:


> Papageorgio said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> CrusaderFrank said:
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> Wry Catcher said:
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> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montana:  Leadership, Control of Emotions, clock management, accuracy of passes, field of vision and the ability to run if and when necessary.
> 
> One example:  In the final minutes of the 1989 Super Bowl Montana led an 11-play, 92-yard drive to score the winning touchdown. In order to calm his teammates in the huddle just before the final game-winning drive, Montana pointed into the stadium crowd and said "Hey, isn't that John Candy?"
> 
> Then and there he earned the nickname, Joe Cool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ^ This.  Credit where due
> 
> Might want to put Eli Manning up for consideration as well. Without hitting David Tyrell on the helmet Brady would be 6-1
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lucky catch is all that was!  Dumb luck is what you would call it!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sort of like last night's catch?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.  Who caught a ball on top of his head?
Click to expand...


Both were lucky.


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## ChrisL

Papageorgio said:


> ChrisL said:
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> Papageorgio said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> CrusaderFrank said:
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> Wry Catcher said:
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> Montana:  Leadership, Control of Emotions, clock management, accuracy of passes, field of vision and the ability to run if and when necessary.
> 
> One example:  In the final minutes of the 1989 Super Bowl Montana led an 11-play, 92-yard drive to score the winning touchdown. In order to calm his teammates in the huddle just before the final game-winning drive, Montana pointed into the stadium crowd and said "Hey, isn't that John Candy?"
> 
> Then and there he earned the nickname, Joe Cool.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^ This.  Credit where due
> 
> Might want to put Eli Manning up for consideration as well. Without hitting David Tyrell on the helmet Brady would be 6-1
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lucky catch is all that was!  Dumb luck is what you would call it!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sort of like last night's catch?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.  Who caught a ball on top of his head?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both were lucky.
Click to expand...


The Patriots were not lucky.  Everyone knows that the catch the Giants made was a LUCKY catch.


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## ChrisL

The Patriots won because they have heart and they are determined, stubborn, well coached, talented, and I could go on.


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## Lewdog

I'm a Bengals fan... they made it to the super Bowl twice, and lost to Montana twice.  I'm also a Notre Dame fan... I hate and love Montana at the same time... but he is still by far the best ever.


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## ChrisL

Maybe you should have stuck to the last 50 years.  Lol.  I haven't even heard of some of these players.  We aren't all old farts, you know!


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## Lewdog

ChrisL said:


> Maybe you should have stuck to the last 50 years.  Lol.  I haven't even heard of some of these players.  We aren't all old farts, you know!



If there are people on that list you don't recognize, then you are just admitting that you aren't a very big sport fan and that your vote is a bit skewed.  Only Otto Graham is too old to have played in a Super Bowl.  All the rest have played QB in at least one Super Bowl or more, except Marino.


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## ChrisL

Lewdog said:


> ChrisL said:
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> 
> 
> Maybe you should have stuck to the last 50 years.  Lol.  I haven't even heard of some of these players.  We aren't all old farts, you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If there are people on that list you don't recognize, then you are just admitting that you aren't a very big sport fan and that your vote is a bit skewed.  Only Otto Graham is too old to have played in a Super Bowl.  All the rest have played QB in at least one Super Bowl or more, except Marino.
Click to expand...


How would I know about players who played before I was born?


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## Lewdog

ChrisL said:


> Lewdog said:
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> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you should have stuck to the last 50 years.  Lol.  I haven't even heard of some of these players.  We aren't all old farts, you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If there are people on that list you don't recognize, then you are just admitting that you aren't a very big sport fan and that your vote is a bit skewed.  Only Otto Graham is too old to have played in a Super Bowl.  All the rest have played QB in at least one Super Bowl or more, except Marino.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How would I know about players who played before I was born?
Click to expand...


Do you know who George Washington is?


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## ChrisL

Lewdog said:


> ChrisL said:
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> Lewdog said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> 
> Maybe you should have stuck to the last 50 years.  Lol.  I haven't even heard of some of these players.  We aren't all old farts, you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If there are people on that list you don't recognize, then you are just admitting that you aren't a very big sport fan and that your vote is a bit skewed.  Only Otto Graham is too old to have played in a Super Bowl.  All the rest have played QB in at least one Super Bowl or more, except Marino.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How would I know about players who played before I was born?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you know who George Washington is?
Click to expand...


You don't learn about football players in school, genius!


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## ChrisL

Lewdog said:


> ChrisL said:
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> Lewdog said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> 
> Maybe you should have stuck to the last 50 years.  Lol.  I haven't even heard of some of these players.  We aren't all old farts, you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If there are people on that list you don't recognize, then you are just admitting that you aren't a very big sport fan and that your vote is a bit skewed.  Only Otto Graham is too old to have played in a Super Bowl.  All the rest have played QB in at least one Super Bowl or more, except Marino.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How would I know about players who played before I was born?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you know who George Washington is?
Click to expand...


And shut up anyways.  Was I talking to you?  No, I was not.


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## Lewdog

ChrisL said:


> Lewdog said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> Lewdog said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> 
> 
> Maybe you should have stuck to the last 50 years.  Lol.  I haven't even heard of some of these players.  We aren't all old farts, you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If there are people on that list you don't recognize, then you are just admitting that you aren't a very big sport fan and that your vote is a bit skewed.  Only Otto Graham is too old to have played in a Super Bowl.  All the rest have played QB in at least one Super Bowl or more, except Marino.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How would I know about players who played before I was born?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you know who George Washington is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't learn about football players in school, genius!
Click to expand...


no, but if you watch football these people get mentioned all the time... and you don't have to go to school to read a book.

You do also understand that this was Super Bowl 51 right?  So in the last 50 years all these players did play except Otto Graham.


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## Lewdog

ChrisL said:


> Lewdog said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> Lewdog said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> 
> Maybe you should have stuck to the last 50 years.  Lol.  I haven't even heard of some of these players.  We aren't all old farts, you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If there are people on that list you don't recognize, then you are just admitting that you aren't a very big sport fan and that your vote is a bit skewed.  Only Otto Graham is too old to have played in a Super Bowl.  All the rest have played QB in at least one Super Bowl or more, except Marino.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How would I know about players who played before I was born?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you know who George Washington is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And shut up anyways.  Was I talking to you?  No, I was not.
Click to expand...


You sound like a snowflake...


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## ChrisL

Lewdog said:


> ChrisL said:
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> Lewdog said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> Lewdog said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> 
> Maybe you should have stuck to the last 50 years.  Lol.  I haven't even heard of some of these players.  We aren't all old farts, you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If there are people on that list you don't recognize, then you are just admitting that you aren't a very big sport fan and that your vote is a bit skewed.  Only Otto Graham is too old to have played in a Super Bowl.  All the rest have played QB in at least one Super Bowl or more, except Marino.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How would I know about players who played before I was born?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you know who George Washington is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't learn about football players in school, genius!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> no, but if you watch football these people get mentioned all the time... and you don't have to go to school to read a book.
> 
> You do also understand that this was Super Bowl 51 right?  So in the last 50 years all these players did play except Otto Graham.
Click to expand...


So?  That doesn't mean I know who they are!  Oh, does that mean I can't watch football or talk about it anymore?  Puhleese.


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## Papageorgio

ChrisL said:


> Papageorgio said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> Papageorgio said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> CrusaderFrank said:
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> ^ This.  Credit where due
> 
> Might want to put Eli Manning up for consideration as well. Without hitting David Tyrell on the helmet Brady would be 6-1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucky catch is all that was!  Dumb luck is what you would call it!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sort of like last night's catch?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.  Who caught a ball on top of his head?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both were lucky.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Patriots were not lucky.  Everyone knows that the catch the Giants made was a LUCKY catch.
Click to expand...


Edelman' catch was lucky, that could have easily been dropped, Seattle had one like it in their Super Bowl loss to New England, two years ago. Just like the Immaculate Reception, just like the Holy Roller, the key is to be in position for those plays to break your way. Luck has and will always be part of the game.


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## Papageorgio

ChrisL said:


> Lewdog said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> Lewdog said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> Lewdog said:
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> 
> If there are people on that list you don't recognize, then you are just admitting that you aren't a very big sport fan and that your vote is a bit skewed.  Only Otto Graham is too old to have played in a Super Bowl.  All the rest have played QB in at least one Super Bowl or more, except Marino.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How would I know about players who played before I was born?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you know who George Washington is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't learn about football players in school, genius!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> no, but if you watch football these people get mentioned all the time... and you don't have to go to school to read a book.
> 
> You do also understand that this was Super Bowl 51 right?  So in the last 50 years all these players did play except Otto Graham.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?  That doesn't mean I know who they are!  Oh, does that mean I can't watch football or talk about it anymore?  Puhleese.
Click to expand...


If you don't know who they are, you are only guessing that Brady is the best.


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## ChrisL

Papageorgio said:


> ChrisL said:
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> Lewdog said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> Lewdog said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> How would I know about players who played before I was born?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know who George Washington is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't learn about football players in school, genius!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> no, but if you watch football these people get mentioned all the time... and you don't have to go to school to read a book.
> 
> You do also understand that this was Super Bowl 51 right?  So in the last 50 years all these players did play except Otto Graham.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?  That doesn't mean I know who they are!  Oh, does that mean I can't watch football or talk about it anymore?  Puhleese.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you don't know who they are, you are only guessing that Brady is the best.
Click to expand...


And so are you since probably none of you have ever seen all quarterbacks play.  Besides that, there is no comparing modern day quarterbacks with those from so long ago.  The rules are completely different and everything is completely different.


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## ChrisL

I would say that it's more difficult to be a successful QB in today's environment where there is a salary cap.


----------



## Papageorgio

ChrisL said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lewdog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lewdog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know who George Washington is?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't learn about football players in school, genius!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> no, but if you watch football these people get mentioned all the time... and you don't have to go to school to read a book.
> 
> You do also understand that this was Super Bowl 51 right?  So in the last 50 years all these players did play except Otto Graham.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?  That doesn't mean I know who they are!  Oh, does that mean I can't watch football or talk about it anymore?  Puhleese.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you don't know who they are, you are only guessing that Brady is the best.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And so are you since probably none of you have ever seen all quarterbacks play.  Besides that, there is no comparing modern day quarterbacks with those from so long ago.  The rules are completely different and everything is completely different.
Click to expand...


I have seen every QB on the list play except for Graham. That said, today's QBs have more protection from being hit, also the rules of the game have changed of the last several years that have made it more advantageous to favor a good passing attack over a running attack. 

Today's QB is much more conditioned than the yesteryear. QBs today cannot go out and party all night and then play football. Had conditioning been a big part of the game years ago it would have been a different story on QBs. 

Also a 65% pass completion was rare. Then you look a QBs like Fouts, Plunkett, Marino and Tarkenton and they had huge games and they would be 300 and 400 yd games and were rare. 

A lot has changed, so who really was and is the best QB? Brady could be but Graham went to championship games every season as a pro, that counts for something. Brady won five in the era of parity.


----------



## ChrisL

Well, Brady has set all kinds of records.  In the Super Bowl, he was able to do things that no other quarterback has EVER done before.


----------



## Lewdog

Papageorgio said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lewdog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't learn about football players in school, genius!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no, but if you watch football these people get mentioned all the time... and you don't have to go to school to read a book.
> 
> You do also understand that this was Super Bowl 51 right?  So in the last 50 years all these players did play except Otto Graham.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?  That doesn't mean I know who they are!  Oh, does that mean I can't watch football or talk about it anymore?  Puhleese.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you don't know who they are, you are only guessing that Brady is the best.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And so are you since probably none of you have ever seen all quarterbacks play.  Besides that, there is no comparing modern day quarterbacks with those from so long ago.  The rules are completely different and everything is completely different.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have seen every QB on the list play except for Graham. That said, today's QBs have more protection from being hit, also the rules of the game have changed of the last several years that have made it more advantageous to favor a good passing attack over a running attack.
> 
> Today's QB is much more conditioned than the yesteryear. QBs today cannot go out and party all night and then play football. Had conditioning been a big part of the game years ago it would have been a different story on QBs.
> 
> Also a 65% pass completion was rare. Then you look a QBs like Fouts, Plunkett, Marino and Tarkenton and they had huge games and they would be 300 and 400 yd games and were rare.
> 
> A lot has changed, so who really was and is the best QB? Brady could be but Graham went to championship games every season as a pro, that counts for something. Brady won five in the era of parity.
Click to expand...


Not to mention rule changes that makes it easier for widereceivers to get open because the defensive backs can't mug them without a penalty like they used to... and the safeties can't head hunt the receivers any more like back in the day when Jack Tatum used to kill guys.  Back when guys like Sonny Jerguson used to throw for 300 yards, that is like Drew Brees throwing for 400 yards today.


----------



## ChrisL

Eight numbers that show just how crazy Patriots' Super Bowl comeback really was

*99.6 percent*
The Falcons' win probability, according to ESPN, after Patriots kicker Stephen Gostkowski hit a 33-yard field goal with 9 minutes 44 seconds remaining in the fourth quarter to cut New England's deficit to 16 points. According to Neil Paine of ESPN, no team has ever overcome a lower win probability in the second half of the Super Bowl than New England did on Sunday night.

*8 minutes, 49 seconds*
The time it took the Patriots to go from a win probability of less than 1 percent to a win probability of 50 percent, after a two-point conversion tied the game with less than a minute to go in regulation.

Seattle Seahawks in Super Bowl XLIX (64 yards).

*466 yards*
Brady's new Super Bowl record for yardage, set on 43 completed passes, which breaks St. Louis Rams QB Kurt Warner's mark (414 yards) against the Tennessee Titans in Super Bowl XXXIV. It is only the fourth time since the merger of 1970 that a team allowed 450 or more passing yards in an playoff game.

*93 plays*
Total number run by New England, breaking the NFL record (regular season and playoffs), set by the Pittsburgh Steelers (84) in Super Bowl XXX. Atlanta ran 46 plays.

*14*
Receptions by James White, breaking the previous Super Bowl record held by Denver Broncos wide receiver Demaryius Thomas (13 catches) during Super Bowl XLVIII. If not for Brady's out-of-this-world heroics, White would be the game's most valuable player. He had 110 yards and a touchdown in the passing game and added two more scores on the ground.

*37*
The number of times New England moved the chains against Atlanta, a Super Bowl record, to join the 1984 San Francisco 49ers as the only Super Bowl teams to have at least 30 first downs.

*5*
Football is a team sport, but Brady is now the only quarterback in NFL history to have five Super Bowl rings. He has been named MVP in four of those wins.


----------



## Wry Catcher

Papageorgio said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montana:  Leadership, Control of Emotions, clock management, accuracy of passes, field of vision and the ability to run if and when necessary.
> 
> One example:  In the final minutes of the 1989 Super Bowl Montana led an 11-play, 92-yard drive to score the winning touchdown. In order to calm his teammates in the huddle just before the final game-winning drive, Montana pointed into the stadium crowd and said "Hey, isn't that John Candy?"
> 
> Then and there he earned the nickname, Joe Cool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So leading a team from 25 down and orchestrating a 91 yard drive to tie, isn't leadership and being calm under pressure?
Click to expand...


I didn't say it was not.  And, Brady survived too many dropped balls, and, the catch keeping a drive alive was not "luck" as some would tell it, it was skill, concentration and spectacular.  

Montana had a history of comebacks, at Notre Dame and with the Niner's.  Comebacks by Joe Cool were almost common, the win against the Cowboy's which got them into their first super bowl was a drive much like the win over the Bengals in '89 and many regular season games over the years.  

BTW, the Niners O dominated teams in two Super Bowls, scoring 52 points in one;  New England's margin of victory with Brady has never been by more than six points.  The Niners beat Denver 55 - 10 and Miami 38 -16.


----------



## Papageorgio

ChrisL said:


> I would say that it's more difficult to be a successful QB in today's environment where there is a salary cap.


Why would you say that? How does a salary cap effect the ability of a QB to play the game?


----------



## Papageorgio

Wry Catcher said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montana:  Leadership, Control of Emotions, clock management, accuracy of passes, field of vision and the ability to run if and when necessary.
> 
> One example:  In the final minutes of the 1989 Super Bowl Montana led an 11-play, 92-yard drive to score the winning touchdown. In order to calm his teammates in the huddle just before the final game-winning drive, Montana pointed into the stadium crowd and said "Hey, isn't that John Candy?"
> 
> Then and there he earned the nickname, Joe Cool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So leading a team from 25 down and orchestrating a 91 yard drive to tie, isn't leadership and being calm under pressure?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't say it was not.  And, Brady survived too many dropped balls, and, the catch keeping a drive alive was not "luck" as some would tell it, it was skill, concentration and spectacular.
> 
> Montana had a history of comebacks, at Notre Dame and with the Niner's.  Comebacks by Joe Cool were almost common, the win against the Cowboy's which got them into their first super bowl was a drive much like the win over the Bengals in '89 and many regular season games over the years.
> 
> BTW, the Niners O dominated teams in two Super Bowls, scoring 52 points in one;  New England's margin of victory with Brady has never been by more than six points.  The Niners beat Denver 55 - 10 and Miami 38 -16.
Click to expand...


Didn't Montana have more talent that surrounded him? He had 22 others on that same team that won four Super Bowls with the 49ers. 

As far as comebacks fourth quarter comebacks, Montana had 31, Brady 39, Peyton Manning had 45, Marino 36 and Elway 35.


----------



## Tom Horn

Unitas.  Most of you never saw him play but #19 is the best I ever saw.   He would disappear in a mass of blockers and charging defensive linemen, and then reappear from the melee and throw a strike to Ray Berry or Jimmy Orr.  He threw more TD passes on 3rd and 1 than any other QB.  I enjoyed Fran Tarkenton, and Montana, and Kenny Stabler, but none of them were better than Johnny U.  Brady is a given for Super Bowls and he's from *MICHIGAN M GO BLUE!* but he doesn't have the ability to take a hit like Unitas did.


----------



## ChrisL

Papageorgio said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that it's more difficult to be a successful QB in today's environment where there is a salary cap.
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you say that? How does a salary cap effect the ability of a QB to play the game?
Click to expand...


Because players don't stay around, so the QB has to make adjustments all the time and learn to rely on rookies.


----------



## Papageorgio

ChrisL said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that it's more difficult to be a successful QB in today's environment where there is a salary cap.
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you say that? How does a salary cap effect the ability of a QB to play the game?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because players don't stay around, so the QB has to make adjustments all the time and learn to rely on rookies.
Click to expand...


Patriots have signed a good many free agents. In fact New England, because of winning attracts some of the best FA.


----------



## Interpol

I voted for Steve Young. I never had a team growing up and still don't. But for a few years there he was exciting to watch in a way the others weren't. There are stats and all that, but then there's the character/smarts/gravitas factor, and it just felt like that guy was totally in charge out there. He just seemed so smooth at being able to adjust to anything and play his game.


----------



## ChrisL

In the end, it's winning that counts when it comes to professional football, and Brady and the Pats have been successful at winning for quite a while now.  Tom Brady is definitely deserving of props for being one of THE greatest.


----------



## Billo_Really

Papageorgio said:


> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.


Brietbart has evidence the majority of people voting for Brady are illegal aliens.


----------



## Papageorgio

ChrisL said:


> In the end, it's winning that counts when it comes to professional football, and Brady and the Pats have been successful at winning for quite a while now.  Tom Brady is definitely deserving of props for being one of THE greatest.



I agree that he is on of the greatest, however a good argument could be made that several QBs could be the greatest.


----------



## Unkotare

There is no further legitimate question about it. Brady is without a doubt the best to ever play the game.


----------



## Papageorgio

Unkotare said:


> There is no further legitimate question about it. Brady is without a doubt the best to ever play the game.



Best football player or QB?


----------



## Unkotare

Papageorgio said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no further legitimate question about it. Brady is without a doubt the best to ever play the game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best football player or QB?
Click to expand...



Both.


----------



## Papageorgio

Best players, Jerry Rice, Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, LT and Walter Payton.


----------



## basquebromance

Brady Quinn cos he had the best bod!


----------



## tyroneweaver

Decus said:


> Montana and Brady are both excellent quarterbacks but my vote is for Bradshaw.
> 
> Bradshaw called his own plays whereas Montana and Brady's plays were sent in and they were free to change them. but they both benefited from the assistance of the coaches. "Calling your own plays" puts all the responsibility on the play caller.
> Bradshaw played before "roughing the passer" or "feet forward sliding rules" provided greater protection to quarterbacks. The game was a bit rougher then.
> 
> Bradshaw had an incredible arm and could hit receivers with accuracy 50 yards or more down field.
> Bradshaw never let the taunts (calling him dumb) get to him, and kept winning. Not easy to win through that kind of adversity.
> Off the field Bradshaw has a sense of humour, something that neither Montana or Brady are known for.
> 
> .


Bradshaw is a camera sense of humor. The worst kind.
His marriages reveal the real jerk in him.


----------



## tyroneweaver

Papageorgio said:


> Best players, Jerry Rice, Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, LT and Walter Payton.


Bart Starr won 5 NFL championships in 7 years. With 3 interceptions.


----------



## sealybobo

Papageorgio said:


> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.


Nick Foles bitches!


----------



## IsaacNewton

There isn't one best. The list would include Montana, Bradshaw, Brady, Peyton Manning, and a 'perhaps' list with Eli Manning, Brett Favre, Troy Aikman, Bart Starr, Ben Roethlisburger, Bob Griese. A few others maybe as well.


----------



## ChrisL

For the haters . . .  

Clayton's GOAT quarterback ranking

*Clayton's GOAT quarterback ranking: Tom Brady is No. 1*


----------



## Wyatt earp

ChrisL said:


> Tom Brady.  The proof is in last night's game.  One important part of being a good QB is being a good leader and being able to lead the team to victory.  To be able to keep the fire in the bellies of the players last night was pretty darn good leadership and motivational skills, considering how far behind they were.  However, they never gave up and kept on fighting until the end and that is all due to good leadership and incredible motivation and determination.




It has to be. Just like MJ was the greatest basketball player to ever live, just like I was the greatest player at badminton eveh!!!




Seriously the greatest QB to play the game with out a doubt had to be Jimmy McMahon


----------



## sealybobo

ChrisL said:


> For the haters . . .
> 
> Clayton's GOAT quarterback ranking
> 
> *Clayton's GOAT quarterback ranking: Tom Brady is No. 1*


He is the man. The patriots have never won back to back have they? Sort of like Tim Duncan and the spurs. I wonder if Tom has one more in him. I bet he’s done.


----------



## ChrisL

bear513 said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tom Brady.  The proof is in last night's game.  One important part of being a good QB is being a good leader and being able to lead the team to victory.  To be able to keep the fire in the bellies of the players last night was pretty darn good leadership and motivational skills, considering how far behind they were.  However, they never gave up and kept on fighting until the end and that is all due to good leadership and incredible motivation and determination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has to be. Just like MJ was the greatest basketball player to ever live, just like I was the greatest player at badminton eveh!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously the greatest QB to play the game with out a doubt had to be Jimmy McMahon
> 
> 
> View attachment 175876
Click to expand...


I don't know who that is.  The game is different today than it was back in the old days.  There is a LOT more money involved to buy players for one thing.  A "team" doesn't have the same players from year to year like in the old days, and there are salary caps that affect things too.  Different rules and regulations too.  So, IMO, it's hard to compare the QBs of today from those in the 1970s/1980s and before that because it's changed so much since then.


----------



## Desperado

1. Tom Brady
2. Dan Marino


----------



## sealybobo

Papageorgio said:


> Best players, Jerry Rice, Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, LT and Walter Payton.


Guys like randy moss Terrell Owens and Calvin Johnson are the best football players. They’re two completely different categories. Brady is best about. I really like Aaron Rodgers. I wonder how he would have done in New England. Or cam newton. He’s a better athlete than Brady but he doesn’t have the team.


----------



## ChrisL

sealybobo said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the haters . . .
> 
> Clayton's GOAT quarterback ranking
> 
> *Clayton's GOAT quarterback ranking: Tom Brady is No. 1*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is the man. The patriots have never won back to back have they? Sort of like Tim Duncan and the spurs. I wonder if Tom has one more in him. I bet he’s done.
Click to expand...


Why?  Because he lost a Super Bowl?  Every time he loses a game, you all go spewing this kind of nonsense.  He is not literally Superman and does not win every single game.  That does not mean he is "done."  HE seems to think he has a few good years left in him, and since he is the oldest QB in the league yet took us all the way to the SB AGAIN, then I would believe him more than YOU, Bo Bo.    When Tom starts sucking, then you can say that.  That is not to say that the Pats shouldn't be or are NOT thinking about his replacement though either.


----------



## ChrisL

Tom Brady is NOT the most athletic QB.  He can't move around for shit.  What he has is brains and a knack for getting the ball where he wants it and for reading the field and the players.  He also has experience.  He doesn't care though.  Everyone underestimated him when he was just a college player as well.  He was like a 6th round draft pick!  Lol!


----------



## sealybobo

ChrisL said:


> Tom Brady is NOT the most athletic QB.  He can't move around for shit.  What he has is brains and a knack for getting the ball where he wants it and for reading the field and the players.  He also has experience.  He doesn't care though.  Everyone underestimated him when he was just a college player as well.  He was like a 6th round draft pick!  Lol!


We’re just being super critical of the goat. Not his fault he was a key part of the greatest organization in football

The lions just hired your assistant coach as our head coach. I hope he brings a winning mentality.


----------



## ChrisL

sealybobo said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tom Brady is NOT the most athletic QB.  He can't move around for shit.  What he has is brains and a knack for getting the ball where he wants it and for reading the field and the players.  He also has experience.  He doesn't care though.  Everyone underestimated him when he was just a college player as well.  He was like a 6th round draft pick!  Lol!
> 
> 
> 
> We’re just being super critical of the goat. Not his fault he was a key part of the greatest organization in football
> 
> The lions just hired your assistant coach as our head coach. I hope he brings a winning mentality.
Click to expand...


Our offensive coordinator was supposed to go but decided at the last minute to stay.  He went one other time to be a head coach, but it didn't work out for him and he came back.  

I just remembered that I have an autographed picture of Tom Brady, Randy Moss and Tedy Bruschi.  I will wait until Tom Brady is inducted in to the Hall of Fame and try to sell it on EBay for some bucks!!!


----------



## Montrovant

I went with Brady, but I really only considered Super Bowl era QBs.  Otherwise I might have gone with Otto Graham, who had the most incredible level of success of any QB.

I considered Montana the greatest for a long time, but a few years ago I decided Brady had overtaken him.  To make it to the Super Bowl in half of your seasons, winning 5; to get to the AFC Championship game in 12 of 16 seasons; to win the division in 15 of 16 seasons; to have the records Brady already owns, and those he is close to getting; I had to change my mind and consider Brady the best ever of the Super Bowl era.

Now Otto Graham played 10 seasons of professional football and went to the title game in all 10, winning 7.  He even won a pro basketball championship in his one year playing that sport.  No other QB has had that sort of success.  However, that was such a different time, it's hard to compare.  When Graham played in the AAFC, it only had 8 teams.  When Graham joined the NFL in 1950, I believe there were only 13 teams.  The rules were different, the game was played differently.  

Montana is the greatest Super Bowl quarterback ever.  4-0, never threw a pick in the big game, 3 time MVP, I put him ahead of Brady there, although it's very close.  But for the overall career, Brady is the SB era GOAT.


----------



## Montrovant

sealybobo said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Best players, Jerry Rice, Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, LT and Walter Payton.
> 
> 
> 
> Guys like randy moss Terrell Owens and Calvin Johnson are the best football players. They’re two completely different categories. Brady is best about. I really like Aaron Rodgers. I wonder how he would have done in New England. Or cam newton. He’s a better athlete than Brady but he doesn’t have the team.
Click to expand...


Why only WRs for best football players, and if that's what you're going with, how do you not have Rice there?


----------



## sealybobo

Montrovant said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Best players, Jerry Rice, Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, LT and Walter Payton.
> 
> 
> 
> Guys like randy moss Terrell Owens and Calvin Johnson are the best football players. They’re two completely different categories. Brady is best about. I really like Aaron Rodgers. I wonder how he would have done in New England. Or cam newton. He’s a better athlete than Brady but he doesn’t have the team.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why only WRs for best football players, and if that's what you're going with, how do you not have Rice there?
Click to expand...

Papa already had rice listed.

I just think these guys are the most athletic. Fast, strong, jumping ability, they are built like gods.


----------



## sealybobo

Montrovant said:


> I went with Brady, but I really only considered Super Bowl era QBs.  Otherwise I might have gone with Otto Graham, who had the most incredible level of success of any QB.
> 
> I considered Montana the greatest for a long time, but a few years ago I decided Brady had overtaken him.  To make it to the Super Bowl in half of your seasons, winning 5; to get to the AFC Championship game in 12 of 16 seasons; to win the division in 15 of 16 seasons; to have the records Brady already owns, and those he is close to getting; I had to change my mind and consider Brady the best ever of the Super Bowl era.
> 
> Now Otto Graham played 10 seasons of professional football and went to the title game in all 10, winning 7.  He even won a pro basketball championship in his one year playing that sport.  No other QB has had that sort of success.  However, that was such a different time, it's hard to compare.  When Graham played in the AAFC, it only had 8 teams.  When Graham joined the NFL in 1950, I believe there were only 13 teams.  The rules were different, the game was played differently.
> 
> Montana is the greatest Super Bowl quarterback ever.  4-0, never threw a pick in the big game, 3 time MVP, I put him ahead of Brady there, although it's very close.  But for the overall career, Brady is the SB era GOAT.


Montana only went to the Super Bowl 4 Times. You are rewarding him for not making it to more super bowls. Or you are punishing Brady for making it to more super bowls. Don’t forget joe got knocked out of the playoffs before the Super Bowl every year he played except 4 seasons

So if Brady never made it to the Super Bowl the years he lost you’d be sitting here saying Brady is perfect 5 and 0 in his super bowl appearances. Well I’d rather be 5 and 1.


----------



## Flopper

*For me it's Joe Montana, Mr Cool.  I've never seen a quarter that can keep calm and operate at such a high level no matter how much the pressure.  Brady probably edges him out in stats but for me it's Montana.*


----------



## Wyatt earp

Flopper said:


> *For me it's Joe Montana, Mr Cool.  I've never seen a quarter that can keep calm and operate at such a high level no matter how much the pressure.  Brady probably edges him out in stats but for it's Montana.*




I so wish Montana won the super bowl with the chiefs


----------



## sealybobo

Flopper said:


> *For me it's Joe Montana, Mr Cool.  I've never seen a quarter that can keep calm and operate at such a high level no matter how much the pressure.  Brady probably edges him out in stats but for it's Montana.*


I feel the same way about Jordan. Sure Lebron has been the greatest player for longer than Jordan and Lebron will shatter a lot of records but he doesn’t come close to Jordan in how he owned the other teams for 6 seasons. 

You may be judging based on style. You may like Montana’s personality more. Brady and his coach are easy to root against. They don’t joke a lot. Brady isn’t doing commercials like Payton Manning


----------



## Muhammed

IIRC Fran Tarkington recovered five fumbles in one game.


----------



## sealybobo

Muhammed said:


> IIRC Fran Tarkington recovered five fumbles in one game.


So he fumbled 5 Times in one game? Not good


----------



## Montrovant

sealybobo said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I went with Brady, but I really only considered Super Bowl era QBs.  Otherwise I might have gone with Otto Graham, who had the most incredible level of success of any QB.
> 
> I considered Montana the greatest for a long time, but a few years ago I decided Brady had overtaken him.  To make it to the Super Bowl in half of your seasons, winning 5; to get to the AFC Championship game in 12 of 16 seasons; to win the division in 15 of 16 seasons; to have the records Brady already owns, and those he is close to getting; I had to change my mind and consider Brady the best ever of the Super Bowl era.
> 
> Now Otto Graham played 10 seasons of professional football and went to the title game in all 10, winning 7.  He even won a pro basketball championship in his one year playing that sport.  No other QB has had that sort of success.  However, that was such a different time, it's hard to compare.  When Graham played in the AAFC, it only had 8 teams.  When Graham joined the NFL in 1950, I believe there were only 13 teams.  The rules were different, the game was played differently.
> 
> Montana is the greatest Super Bowl quarterback ever.  4-0, never threw a pick in the big game, 3 time MVP, I put him ahead of Brady there, although it's very close.  But for the overall career, Brady is the SB era GOAT.
> 
> 
> 
> Montana only went to the Super Bowl 4 Times. You are rewarding him for not making it to more super bowls. Or you are punishing Brady for making it to more super bowls. Don’t forget joe got knocked out of the playoffs before the Super Bowl every year he played except 4 seasons
> 
> So if Brady never made it to the Super Bowl the years he lost you’d be sitting here saying Brady is perfect 5 and 0 in his super bowl appearances. Well I’d rather be 5 and 1.
Click to expand...


No, I'm not judging that based solely on how many Super Bowls a player played in, but how they performed in those Super Bowls.  Montana had a great game-winning drive against the Bengals in a close game.  He also had 4 TDs against Miami in a dominant win, and 5 TDs against Denver in a blowout win.  Montana never threw a pick in 4 Super Bowls.  Montana never lost in 4 Super Bowls.  Montana never had fewer than 2 TDs in a Super Bowl.  Montana's lowest QB rating for a Super Bowl is 100, his highest is 147.6.

Brady only had 1 TD in the first loss to the Giants.  Brady threw picks in 4 of his 8 Super Bowls, and had that huge fumble in the Eagles game (Montana never lost a fumble or threw a pick).  Brady never had a blow-out or dominant win.  Brady's winning % in the Super Bowl is only .500.  Brady's lowest QB rating for a Super Bowl is 82.5.  His lowest rating in a Super Bowl he won is 86.2.  Brady's highest rating is 115.4.  

When you look at how they performed in Super Bowls, Montana was better than Brady.  If Montana had played in 4 more Super Bowls, perhaps it would have evened out some, but going by the body of work available, Montana was consistently excellent in the big game.


----------



## Jroc

8 super bowls is unheard of ...it'll never be done again...Enough said really


----------



## Jroc

Montrovant said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I went with Brady, but I really only considered Super Bowl era QBs.  Otherwise I might have gone with Otto Graham, who had the most incredible level of success of any QB.
> 
> I considered Montana the greatest for a long time, but a few years ago I decided Brady had overtaken him.  To make it to the Super Bowl in half of your seasons, winning 5; to get to the AFC Championship game in 12 of 16 seasons; to win the division in 15 of 16 seasons; to have the records Brady already owns, and those he is close to getting; I had to change my mind and consider Brady the best ever of the Super Bowl era.
> 
> Now Otto Graham played 10 seasons of professional football and went to the title game in all 10, winning 7.  He even won a pro basketball championship in his one year playing that sport.  No other QB has had that sort of success.  However, that was such a different time, it's hard to compare.  When Graham played in the AAFC, it only had 8 teams.  When Graham joined the NFL in 1950, I believe there were only 13 teams.  The rules were different, the game was played differently.
> 
> Montana is the greatest Super Bowl quarterback ever.  4-0, never threw a pick in the big game, 3 time MVP, I put him ahead of Brady there, although it's very close.  But for the overall career, Brady is the SB era GOAT.
> 
> 
> 
> Montana only went to the Super Bowl 4 Times. You are rewarding him for not making it to more super bowls. Or you are punishing Brady for making it to more super bowls. Don’t forget joe got knocked out of the playoffs before the Super Bowl every year he played except 4 seasons
> 
> So if Brady never made it to the Super Bowl the years he lost you’d be sitting here saying Brady is perfect 5 and 0 in his super bowl appearances. Well I’d rather be 5 and 1.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I'm not judging that based solely on how many Super Bowls a player played in, but how they performed in those Super Bowls.  Montana had a great game-winning drive against the Bengals in a close game.  He also had 4 TDs against Miami in a dominant win, and 5 TDs against Denver in a blowout win.  Montana never threw a pick in 4 Super Bowls.  Montana never lost in 4 Super Bowls.  Montana never had fewer than 2 TDs in a Super Bowl.  Montana's lowest QB rating for a Super Bowl is 100, his highest is 147.6.
> 
> Brady only had 1 TD in the first loss to the Giants.  Brady threw picks in 4 of his 8 Super Bowls, and had that huge fumble in the Eagles game (Montana never lost a fumble or threw a pick).  Brady never had a blow-out or dominant win.  *Brady's winning % in the Super Bowl is only .500*.  Brady's lowest QB rating for a Super Bowl is 82.5.  His lowest rating in a Super Bowl he won is 86.2.  Brady's highest rating is 115.4.
> 
> When you look at how they performed in Super Bowls, Montana was better than Brady.  If Montana had played in 4 more Super Bowls, perhaps it would have evened out some, but going by the body of work available, Montana was consistently excellent in the big game.
Click to expand...



Since when is 5-3 .500?


----------



## Darkwind

Montrovant said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I went with Brady, but I really only considered Super Bowl era QBs.  Otherwise I might have gone with Otto Graham, who had the most incredible level of success of any QB.
> 
> I considered Montana the greatest for a long time, but a few years ago I decided Brady had overtaken him.  To make it to the Super Bowl in half of your seasons, winning 5; to get to the AFC Championship game in 12 of 16 seasons; to win the division in 15 of 16 seasons; to have the records Brady already owns, and those he is close to getting; I had to change my mind and consider Brady the best ever of the Super Bowl era.
> 
> Now Otto Graham played 10 seasons of professional football and went to the title game in all 10, winning 7.  He even won a pro basketball championship in his one year playing that sport.  No other QB has had that sort of success.  However, that was such a different time, it's hard to compare.  When Graham played in the AAFC, it only had 8 teams.  When Graham joined the NFL in 1950, I believe there were only 13 teams.  The rules were different, the game was played differently.
> 
> Montana is the greatest Super Bowl quarterback ever.  4-0, never threw a pick in the big game, 3 time MVP, I put him ahead of Brady there, although it's very close.  But for the overall career, Brady is the SB era GOAT.
> 
> 
> 
> Montana only went to the Super Bowl 4 Times. You are rewarding him for not making it to more super bowls. Or you are punishing Brady for making it to more super bowls. Don’t forget joe got knocked out of the playoffs before the Super Bowl every year he played except 4 seasons
> 
> So if Brady never made it to the Super Bowl the years he lost you’d be sitting here saying Brady is perfect 5 and 0 in his super bowl appearances. Well I’d rather be 5 and 1.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I'm not judging that based solely on how many Super Bowls a player played in, but how they performed in those Super Bowls.  Montana had a great game-winning drive against the Bengals in a close game.  He also had 4 TDs against Miami in a dominant win, and 5 TDs against Denver in a blowout win.  Montana never threw a pick in 4 Super Bowls.  Montana never lost in 4 Super Bowls.  Montana never had fewer than 2 TDs in a Super Bowl.  Montana's lowest QB rating for a Super Bowl is 100, his highest is 147.6.
> 
> Brady only had 1 TD in the first loss to the Giants.  Brady threw picks in 4 of his 8 Super Bowls, and had that huge fumble in the Eagles game (Montana never lost a fumble or threw a pick).  Brady never had a blow-out or dominant win.  Brady's winning % in the Super Bowl is only .500.  Brady's lowest QB rating for a Super Bowl is 82.5.  His lowest rating in a Super Bowl he won is 86.2.  Brady's highest rating is 115.4.
> 
> When you look at how they performed in Super Bowls, Montana was better than Brady.  If Montana had played in 4 more Super Bowls, perhaps it would have evened out some, but going by the body of work available, Montana was consistently excellent in the big game.
Click to expand...

/thread


----------



## Flopper

*One of my favorite quarterbacks is Eli Manning, not because of what he's done on the gridiron but because of what he's done off the field.  He has been an advocate for children for years, donating millions of dollars to schools, raising over 3 million dollars for a children medical clinic in Mississippi, working and supporting the March of Dimes, Guiding Eyes for the Blind, American Red Cross, the Scholastic's Classroom Care program, and many other worthy charities.  When a national disaster hits like Katrina, Eli and Peyton are there to help.  

Many of the great players in NFL try to buy happiness off the field and fail miserable but some put there money to use helping others which is the true path to happiness. *


----------



## Montrovant

Jroc said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I went with Brady, but I really only considered Super Bowl era QBs.  Otherwise I might have gone with Otto Graham, who had the most incredible level of success of any QB.
> 
> I considered Montana the greatest for a long time, but a few years ago I decided Brady had overtaken him.  To make it to the Super Bowl in half of your seasons, winning 5; to get to the AFC Championship game in 12 of 16 seasons; to win the division in 15 of 16 seasons; to have the records Brady already owns, and those he is close to getting; I had to change my mind and consider Brady the best ever of the Super Bowl era.
> 
> Now Otto Graham played 10 seasons of professional football and went to the title game in all 10, winning 7.  He even won a pro basketball championship in his one year playing that sport.  No other QB has had that sort of success.  However, that was such a different time, it's hard to compare.  When Graham played in the AAFC, it only had 8 teams.  When Graham joined the NFL in 1950, I believe there were only 13 teams.  The rules were different, the game was played differently.
> 
> Montana is the greatest Super Bowl quarterback ever.  4-0, never threw a pick in the big game, 3 time MVP, I put him ahead of Brady there, although it's very close.  But for the overall career, Brady is the SB era GOAT.
> 
> 
> 
> Montana only went to the Super Bowl 4 Times. You are rewarding him for not making it to more super bowls. Or you are punishing Brady for making it to more super bowls. Don’t forget joe got knocked out of the playoffs before the Super Bowl every year he played except 4 seasons
> 
> So if Brady never made it to the Super Bowl the years he lost you’d be sitting here saying Brady is perfect 5 and 0 in his super bowl appearances. Well I’d rather be 5 and 1.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I'm not judging that based solely on how many Super Bowls a player played in, but how they performed in those Super Bowls.  Montana had a great game-winning drive against the Bengals in a close game.  He also had 4 TDs against Miami in a dominant win, and 5 TDs against Denver in a blowout win.  Montana never threw a pick in 4 Super Bowls.  Montana never lost in 4 Super Bowls.  Montana never had fewer than 2 TDs in a Super Bowl.  Montana's lowest QB rating for a Super Bowl is 100, his highest is 147.6.
> 
> Brady only had 1 TD in the first loss to the Giants.  Brady threw picks in 4 of his 8 Super Bowls, and had that huge fumble in the Eagles game (Montana never lost a fumble or threw a pick).  Brady never had a blow-out or dominant win.  *Brady's winning % in the Super Bowl is only .500*.  Brady's lowest QB rating for a Super Bowl is 82.5.  His lowest rating in a Super Bowl he won is 86.2.  Brady's highest rating is 115.4.
> 
> When you look at how they performed in Super Bowls, Montana was better than Brady.  If Montana had played in 4 more Super Bowls, perhaps it would have evened out some, but going by the body of work available, Montana was consistently excellent in the big game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Since when is 5-3 .500?
Click to expand...


I must have been thinking of games he'd thrown a pick in at the time, rather than wins.


----------



## Montrovant

Darkwind said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I went with Brady, but I really only considered Super Bowl era QBs.  Otherwise I might have gone with Otto Graham, who had the most incredible level of success of any QB.
> 
> I considered Montana the greatest for a long time, but a few years ago I decided Brady had overtaken him.  To make it to the Super Bowl in half of your seasons, winning 5; to get to the AFC Championship game in 12 of 16 seasons; to win the division in 15 of 16 seasons; to have the records Brady already owns, and those he is close to getting; I had to change my mind and consider Brady the best ever of the Super Bowl era.
> 
> Now Otto Graham played 10 seasons of professional football and went to the title game in all 10, winning 7.  He even won a pro basketball championship in his one year playing that sport.  No other QB has had that sort of success.  However, that was such a different time, it's hard to compare.  When Graham played in the AAFC, it only had 8 teams.  When Graham joined the NFL in 1950, I believe there were only 13 teams.  The rules were different, the game was played differently.
> 
> Montana is the greatest Super Bowl quarterback ever.  4-0, never threw a pick in the big game, 3 time MVP, I put him ahead of Brady there, although it's very close.  But for the overall career, Brady is the SB era GOAT.
> 
> 
> 
> Montana only went to the Super Bowl 4 Times. You are rewarding him for not making it to more super bowls. Or you are punishing Brady for making it to more super bowls. Don’t forget joe got knocked out of the playoffs before the Super Bowl every year he played except 4 seasons
> 
> So if Brady never made it to the Super Bowl the years he lost you’d be sitting here saying Brady is perfect 5 and 0 in his super bowl appearances. Well I’d rather be 5 and 1.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I'm not judging that based solely on how many Super Bowls a player played in, but how they performed in those Super Bowls.  Montana had a great game-winning drive against the Bengals in a close game.  He also had 4 TDs against Miami in a dominant win, and 5 TDs against Denver in a blowout win.  Montana never threw a pick in 4 Super Bowls.  Montana never lost in 4 Super Bowls.  Montana never had fewer than 2 TDs in a Super Bowl.  Montana's lowest QB rating for a Super Bowl is 100, his highest is 147.6.
> 
> Brady only had 1 TD in the first loss to the Giants.  Brady threw picks in 4 of his 8 Super Bowls, and had that huge fumble in the Eagles game (Montana never lost a fumble or threw a pick).  Brady never had a blow-out or dominant win.  Brady's winning % in the Super Bowl is only .500.  Brady's lowest QB rating for a Super Bowl is 82.5.  His lowest rating in a Super Bowl he won is 86.2.  Brady's highest rating is 115.4.
> 
> When you look at how they performed in Super Bowls, Montana was better than Brady.  If Montana had played in 4 more Super Bowls, perhaps it would have evened out some, but going by the body of work available, Montana was consistently excellent in the big game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> /thread
Click to expand...


Well, the thread is about greatest QB, not greatest Super Bowl QB.  This was just a side conversation.


----------



## sealybobo

Montrovant said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I went with Brady, but I really only considered Super Bowl era QBs.  Otherwise I might have gone with Otto Graham, who had the most incredible level of success of any QB.
> 
> I considered Montana the greatest for a long time, but a few years ago I decided Brady had overtaken him.  To make it to the Super Bowl in half of your seasons, winning 5; to get to the AFC Championship game in 12 of 16 seasons; to win the division in 15 of 16 seasons; to have the records Brady already owns, and those he is close to getting; I had to change my mind and consider Brady the best ever of the Super Bowl era.
> 
> Now Otto Graham played 10 seasons of professional football and went to the title game in all 10, winning 7.  He even won a pro basketball championship in his one year playing that sport.  No other QB has had that sort of success.  However, that was such a different time, it's hard to compare.  When Graham played in the AAFC, it only had 8 teams.  When Graham joined the NFL in 1950, I believe there were only 13 teams.  The rules were different, the game was played differently.
> 
> Montana is the greatest Super Bowl quarterback ever.  4-0, never threw a pick in the big game, 3 time MVP, I put him ahead of Brady there, although it's very close.  But for the overall career, Brady is the SB era GOAT.
> 
> 
> 
> Montana only went to the Super Bowl 4 Times. You are rewarding him for not making it to more super bowls. Or you are punishing Brady for making it to more super bowls. Don’t forget joe got knocked out of the playoffs before the Super Bowl every year he played except 4 seasons
> 
> So if Brady never made it to the Super Bowl the years he lost you’d be sitting here saying Brady is perfect 5 and 0 in his super bowl appearances. Well I’d rather be 5 and 1.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I'm not judging that based solely on how many Super Bowls a player played in, but how they performed in those Super Bowls.  Montana had a great game-winning drive against the Bengals in a close game.  He also had 4 TDs against Miami in a dominant win, and 5 TDs against Denver in a blowout win.  Montana never threw a pick in 4 Super Bowls.  Montana never lost in 4 Super Bowls.  Montana never had fewer than 2 TDs in a Super Bowl.  Montana's lowest QB rating for a Super Bowl is 100, his highest is 147.6.
> 
> Brady only had 1 TD in the first loss to the Giants.  Brady threw picks in 4 of his 8 Super Bowls, and had that huge fumble in the Eagles game (Montana never lost a fumble or threw a pick).  Brady never had a blow-out or dominant win.  Brady's winning % in the Super Bowl is only .500.  Brady's lowest QB rating for a Super Bowl is 82.5.  His lowest rating in a Super Bowl he won is 86.2.  Brady's highest rating is 115.4.
> 
> When you look at how they performed in Super Bowls, Montana was better than Brady.  If Montana had played in 4 more Super Bowls, perhaps it would have evened out some, but going by the body of work available, Montana was consistently excellent in the big game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> /thread
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, the thread is about greatest QB, not greatest Super Bowl QB.  This was just a side conversation.
Click to expand...

I know right? Who had it easiest in the Super Bowl isn’t fair because they played different teams.

I’ll give Montana this though. He played back when defensive backs could hit receivers. Today it’s touch football


----------



## Paulie

I'm giving it to Brady simply because he's been able to do it consistently through the salary cap era, into his 40's, with entirely different personnel almost every season and only a brief time actually having a legitimate franchise WR.  I get the argument for Montana and Bradshaw but I just think Brady edges them out for those reasons. There's always the question of what it aikman didn't have smith and Irvin, or what if Montana didn't have rice, etc. But Brady actually hasn't had anything to work with talent wise that even comes close to those except for a little time with Moss. He's the one QB on this list that has done it with the least to work with


----------



## Papageorgio

Flopper said:


> *One of my favorite quarterbacks is Eli Manning, not because of what he's done on the gridiron but because of what he's done off the field.  He has been an advocate for children for years, donating millions of dollars to schools, raising over 3 million dollars for a children medical clinic in Mississippi, working and supporting the March of Dimes, Guiding Eyes for the Blind, American Red Cross, the Scholastic's Classroom Care program, and many other worthy charities.  When a national disaster hits like Katrina, Eli and Peyton are there to help.
> 
> Many of the great players in NFL try to buy happiness off the field and fail miserable but some put there money to use helping others which is the true path to happiness. *



Thank you, there is so much more to being an athlete than winning games and setting records, it’s giving back and paying forward. Damien Lillard of the Portland Trailblazer donates a lot of time and money to charity. Several Houston Texans were there to help their community after last year’s hurricane.

Happiness comes from the inside, not externally.


----------



## eagle1462010

Joe Montana....................He couldn't stand to lose..............He would be winning a game and make a mistake that would cost them a first down..........walk off the field and slam his helmet into the ground.................For making a mistake in a game they had already won..........

He played in a time of a lot of great quarterbacks.............and won championships...........

Yup......he's my pick.


----------



## Pop23

Can’t vote. There is no all of the above option

Different eras. 

Best I can do


----------



## Unkotare

There is no question as to who the best ever is. Y'all should start arguing over who is second best.


----------



## Papageorgio

If I were starting a team and I could have one QB to build my team around, they were all the same age, my first choice would be P. Manning.


----------



## my2¢

Otto Graham played 10 years and played in 10 league championship games (winning 4 in AAFC and 3 after merger with NFL).  However the only time I saw Graham on the field was when he was the head coach of the Redskins.  In the QB favored era we have today he still ranks up there with regard to QB rating (26th historically).  So while I voted for Tom Brady, I really would like to split it between the Brady and Graham.


----------



## Slash

my2¢ said:


> Otto Graham played 10 years and played in 10 league championship games (winning 4 in AAFC and 3 after merger with NFL).  However the only time I saw Graham on the field was when he was the head coach of the Redskins.  In the QB favored era we have today he still ranks up there with regard to QB rating (26th historically).  So while I voted for Tom Brady, I really would like to split it between the Brady and Graham.



Graham is tough for me.  He also won a basketball championship when he played pro basketball for a year after his retirement from the NFL.  

But Graham clearly played better in the AAFC than then NFL.  I don't know how tough the AAFC championship game vs. the Yankees or Bills (not the current Buffalo Bills, but the AAFC version) was.   

If we do that, should we include Moon in the CFL?  Steve Young in the USFL?   And why don't we consider AFL championships for guys like Kemp?  

He also won it all in a 12 team league.   Brady this year won a 16 team AFC.  

In the end Graham played in the NFL for 6 years, and won 3 championships, lost another 3.  In that 6 years he was arguably the best QB.  Some would say Bobby Layne was the better NFL QB of that era (more career numbers, 1 less championship but beat Graham head to head twice for championships.).  

I just think that if Kraft moves the Pats to the XFL next year and Brady wins their next 5 championships, that doesn't make him a better NFL QB for me.


----------



## Jroc

Montrovant said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I went with Brady, but I really only considered Super Bowl era QBs.  Otherwise I might have gone with Otto Graham, who had the most incredible level of success of any QB.
> 
> I considered Montana the greatest for a long time, but a few years ago I decided Brady had overtaken him.  To make it to the Super Bowl in half of your seasons, winning 5; to get to the AFC Championship game in 12 of 16 seasons; to win the division in 15 of 16 seasons; to have the records Brady already owns, and those he is close to getting; I had to change my mind and consider Brady the best ever of the Super Bowl era.
> 
> Now Otto Graham played 10 seasons of professional football and went to the title game in all 10, winning 7.  He even won a pro basketball championship in his one year playing that sport.  No other QB has had that sort of success.  However, that was such a different time, it's hard to compare.  When Graham played in the AAFC, it only had 8 teams.  When Graham joined the NFL in 1950, I believe there were only 13 teams.  The rules were different, the game was played differently.
> 
> Montana is the greatest Super Bowl quarterback ever.  4-0, never threw a pick in the big game, 3 time MVP, I put him ahead of Brady there, although it's very close.  But for the overall career, Brady is the SB era GOAT.
> 
> 
> 
> Montana only went to the Super Bowl 4 Times. You are rewarding him for not making it to more super bowls. Or you are punishing Brady for making it to more super bowls. Don’t forget joe got knocked out of the playoffs before the Super Bowl every year he played except 4 seasons
> 
> So if Brady never made it to the Super Bowl the years he lost you’d be sitting here saying Brady is perfect 5 and 0 in his super bowl appearances. Well I’d rather be 5 and 1.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I'm not judging that based solely on how many Super Bowls a player played in, but how they performed in those Super Bowls.  Montana had a great game-winning drive against the Bengals in a close game.  He also had 4 TDs against Miami in a dominant win, and 5 TDs against Denver in a blowout win.  Montana never threw a pick in 4 Super Bowls.  Montana never lost in 4 Super Bowls.  Montana never had fewer than 2 TDs in a Super Bowl.  Montana's lowest QB rating for a Super Bowl is 100, his highest is 147.6.
> 
> Brady only had 1 TD in the first loss to the Giants.  Brady threw picks in 4 of his 8 Super Bowls, and had that huge fumble in the Eagles game (Montana never lost a fumble or threw a pick).  Brady never had a blow-out or dominant win.  *Brady's winning % in the Super Bowl is only .500*.  Brady's lowest QB rating for a Super Bowl is 82.5.  His lowest rating in a Super Bowl he won is 86.2.  Brady's highest rating is 115.4.
> 
> When you look at how they performed in Super Bowls, Montana was better than Brady.  If Montana had played in 4 more Super Bowls, perhaps it would have evened out some, but going by the body of work available, Montana was consistently excellent in the big game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Since when is 5-3 .500?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I must have been thinking of games he'd thrown a pick in at the time, rather than wins.
Click to expand...

No quarterback has ever lead their team to 8 super bowls, winning 5 of them ...It'll never be done again...Enough said hater


----------



## Marion Morrison

Now that I've voted for Joe Money, well, Brady may have outdone him, he just doesn't have flare?'

Joe knew the game well. I really don't think Brady, well he studies, nevermind.


----------



## 80zephyr

Bart Starr won 5 NFL championships in 7 years. He also has the all time high quarterback rating of playoff quarterbacks with 104.8 And he accomplished this in an era where the games rules didn't favor passing.

Pretty clear to me.

Mark


----------



## Marion Morrison

ChrisL said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montana:  Leadership, Control of Emotions, clock management, accuracy of passes, field of vision and the ability to run if and when necessary.
> 
> One example:  In the final minutes of the 1989 Super Bowl Montana led an 11-play, 92-yard drive to score the winning touchdown. In order to calm his teammates in the huddle just before the final game-winning drive, Montana pointed into the stadium crowd and said "Hey, isn't that John Candy?"
> 
> Then and there he earned the nickname, Joe Cool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ^ This.  Credit where due
> 
> Might want to put Eli Manning up for consideration as well. Without hitting David Tyrell on the helmet Brady would be 6-1
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lucky catch is all that was!  Dumb luck is what you would call it!
Click to expand...




ChrisL said:


> The Patriots won because they have heart and they are determined, stubborn, well coached, talented, and I could go on.



Not this year!


----------



## Marion Morrison

Y U no Archie Manning? Archie knows the game. Hoo-wee! I'll never forget that night the Pats were undefeated and Eli started these crazy college jackboot plays in the Superbowl. 


I was actually rooting for Brady that year, it did not go my way!

Who has Brady trained?

Joe Montana trained Steve Young, and I believe Vinny Testeverde learned some, too.

Archie, of course, trained his sons: Peyton and Eli.


----------



## rightwinger

Papageorgio said:


> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.



Having seen them all except for Otto Graham

No question Brady is the GOAT. Used to be you built a dynasty and rode it to championships as long as you could. With salary caps, free agency and a weighted draft....that is almost impossible to do
The Pats are continually revamping and Brady and Belichick are the only constants


----------



## rightwinger

ChrisL said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montana:  Leadership, Control of Emotions, clock management, accuracy of passes, field of vision and the ability to run if and when necessary.
> 
> One example:  In the final minutes of the 1989 Super Bowl Montana led an 11-play, 92-yard drive to score the winning touchdown. In order to calm his teammates in the huddle just before the final game-winning drive, Montana pointed into the stadium crowd and said "Hey, isn't that John Candy?"
> 
> Then and there he earned the nickname, Joe Cool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ^ This.  Credit where due
> 
> Might want to put Eli Manning up for consideration as well. Without hitting David Tyrell on the helmet Brady would be 6-1
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lucky catch is all that was!  Dumb luck is what you would call it!
Click to expand...


No luck

Harrison did all he could to pry the ball lose.....he couldn't


----------



## gipper

william the wie said:


> I went with Terry Bradshaw because of Brady working with the much better coach and organization but I consider it more of a photo finish than a runaway win. The Pats do well even without Brady


The Steelers would have done very well without Bradshaw.  Hell...they have a dozen players in the Hall of Fame.  The Patriots under Brady, not even close. Brady is ten times the QB that Bradshaw was.


----------



## rightwinger

Decus said:


> Montana and Brady are both excellent quarterbacks but my vote is for Bradshaw.
> 
> Bradshaw called his own plays whereas Montana and Brady's plays were sent in and they were free to change them. but they both benefited from the assistance of the coaches. "Calling your own plays" puts all the responsibility on the play caller.
> Bradshaw played before "roughing the passer" or "feet forward sliding rules" provided greater protection to quarterbacks. The game was a bit rougher then.
> 
> Bradshaw had an incredible arm and could hit receivers with accuracy 50 yards or more down field.
> Bradshaw never let the taunts (calling him dumb) get to him, and kept winning. Not easy to win through that kind of adversity.
> Off the field Bradshaw has a sense of humour, something that neither Montana or Brady are known for.
> 
> .



Both Bradshaw and Montana were surrounded by HOF talent

Except for Gronk (who I assume will get in) Brady has done it with a constantly changing cast of characters


----------



## rightwinger

gipper said:


> william the wie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I went with Terry Bradshaw because of Brady working with the much better coach and organization but I consider it more of a photo finish than a runaway win. The Pats do well even without Brady
> 
> 
> 
> The Steelers would have done very well without Bradshaw.  Hell...they have a dozen players in the Hall of Fame.  The Patriots under Brady, not even close. Brady is ten times the QB that Bradshaw was.
Click to expand...


The Steelers had the best defense I ever saw
I think any average QB could have won with them. Just hand the ball to Franco


----------



## gipper

Paulie said:


> I'm giving it to Brady simply because he's been able to do it consistently through the salary cap era, into his 40's, with entirely different personnel almost every season and only a brief time actually having a legitimate franchise WR.  I get the argument for Montana and Bradshaw but I just think Brady edges them out for those reasons. There's always the question of what it aikman didn't have smith and Irvin, or what if Montana didn't have rice, etc. But Brady actually hasn't had anything to work with talent wise that even comes close to those except for a little time with Moss. He's the one QB on this list that has done it with the least to work with


And when you add to this the fact that Brady is essentially immobile and has not played behind great offensive lines, his accomplishments are even greater.


----------



## sealybobo

80zephyr said:


> Bart Starr won 5 NFL championships in 7 years. He also has the all time high quarterback rating of playoff quarterbacks with 104.8 And he accomplished this in an era where the games rules didn't favor passing.
> 
> Pretty clear to me.
> 
> Mark


What would Brady have to do to pass him?


----------



## gipper

rightwinger said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> william the wie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I went with Terry Bradshaw because of Brady working with the much better coach and organization but I consider it more of a photo finish than a runaway win. The Pats do well even without Brady
> 
> 
> 
> The Steelers would have done very well without Bradshaw.  Hell...they have a dozen players in the Hall of Fame.  The Patriots under Brady, not even close. Brady is ten times the QB that Bradshaw was.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Steelers had the best defense I ever saw
> I think any average QB could have won with them. Just hand the ball to Franco
Click to expand...

Exactly.


----------



## rightwinger

Missing from the list

Aaron Rogers
Drew Brees
Roger Staubach
Warren Moon


----------



## gipper

rightwinger said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> william the wie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I went with Terry Bradshaw because of Brady working with the much better coach and organization but I consider it more of a photo finish than a runaway win. The Pats do well even without Brady
> 
> 
> 
> The Steelers would have done very well without Bradshaw.  Hell...they have a dozen players in the Hall of Fame.  The Patriots under Brady, not even close. Brady is ten times the QB that Bradshaw was.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Steelers had the best defense I ever saw
> I think any average QB could have won with them. Just hand the ball to Franco
Click to expand...




sealybobo said:


> 80zephyr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bart Starr won 5 NFL championships in 7 years. He also has the all time high quarterback rating of playoff quarterbacks with 104.8 And he accomplished this in an era where the games rules didn't favor passing.
> 
> Pretty clear to me.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> What would Brady have to do to pass him?
Click to expand...

but again, Starr was surrounded by great players.


----------



## Jroc

Marion Morrison said:


> Y U no Archie Manning? Archie knows the game. Hoo-wee! I'll never forget that night the Pats were undefeated and Eli started these crazy college jackboot plays in the Superbowl.
> 
> 
> I was actually rooting for Brady that year, it did not go my way!
> 
> Who has Brady trained?
> 
> Joe Montana trained Steve Young, and I believe Vinny Testeverde learned some, too.
> 
> Archie, of course, trained his sons: Peyton and Eli.




Its best quarterback poll, not best coach...Joe Montana and Steve Young had Jerry rice...Brady makes the people around him better, you gotta give him that .


----------



## gipper

rightwinger said:


> Missing from the list
> 
> Aaron Rogers
> Drew Brees
> Roger Staubach
> Warren Moon


Agreed.  I always liked Moon.  He was a great player.  Spent some years in Canada, for some strange reason.


----------



## Montrovant

Jroc said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I went with Brady, but I really only considered Super Bowl era QBs.  Otherwise I might have gone with Otto Graham, who had the most incredible level of success of any QB.
> 
> I considered Montana the greatest for a long time, but a few years ago I decided Brady had overtaken him.  To make it to the Super Bowl in half of your seasons, winning 5; to get to the AFC Championship game in 12 of 16 seasons; to win the division in 15 of 16 seasons; to have the records Brady already owns, and those he is close to getting; I had to change my mind and consider Brady the best ever of the Super Bowl era.
> 
> Now Otto Graham played 10 seasons of professional football and went to the title game in all 10, winning 7.  He even won a pro basketball championship in his one year playing that sport.  No other QB has had that sort of success.  However, that was such a different time, it's hard to compare.  When Graham played in the AAFC, it only had 8 teams.  When Graham joined the NFL in 1950, I believe there were only 13 teams.  The rules were different, the game was played differently.
> 
> Montana is the greatest Super Bowl quarterback ever.  4-0, never threw a pick in the big game, 3 time MVP, I put him ahead of Brady there, although it's very close.  But for the overall career, Brady is the SB era GOAT.
> 
> 
> 
> Montana only went to the Super Bowl 4 Times. You are rewarding him for not making it to more super bowls. Or you are punishing Brady for making it to more super bowls. Don’t forget joe got knocked out of the playoffs before the Super Bowl every year he played except 4 seasons
> 
> So if Brady never made it to the Super Bowl the years he lost you’d be sitting here saying Brady is perfect 5 and 0 in his super bowl appearances. Well I’d rather be 5 and 1.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I'm not judging that based solely on how many Super Bowls a player played in, but how they performed in those Super Bowls.  Montana had a great game-winning drive against the Bengals in a close game.  He also had 4 TDs against Miami in a dominant win, and 5 TDs against Denver in a blowout win.  Montana never threw a pick in 4 Super Bowls.  Montana never lost in 4 Super Bowls.  Montana never had fewer than 2 TDs in a Super Bowl.  Montana's lowest QB rating for a Super Bowl is 100, his highest is 147.6.
> 
> Brady only had 1 TD in the first loss to the Giants.  Brady threw picks in 4 of his 8 Super Bowls, and had that huge fumble in the Eagles game (Montana never lost a fumble or threw a pick).  Brady never had a blow-out or dominant win.  *Brady's winning % in the Super Bowl is only .500*.  Brady's lowest QB rating for a Super Bowl is 82.5.  His lowest rating in a Super Bowl he won is 86.2.  Brady's highest rating is 115.4.
> 
> When you look at how they performed in Super Bowls, Montana was better than Brady.  If Montana had played in 4 more Super Bowls, perhaps it would have evened out some, but going by the body of work available, Montana was consistently excellent in the big game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Since when is 5-3 .500?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I must have been thinking of games he'd thrown a pick in at the time, rather than wins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No quarterback has ever lead their team to 8 super bowls, winning 5 of them ...It'll never be done again...Enough said hater
Click to expand...


I picked Brady as the best QB, and I'm a hater?  

Brady wasn't as good in the Super Bowl as Montana.  That's not a knock on Brady, it's a testament to how amazingly well Montana played in the Super Bowls he was in.


----------



## sealybobo

Montrovant said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Montana only went to the Super Bowl 4 Times. You are rewarding him for not making it to more super bowls. Or you are punishing Brady for making it to more super bowls. Don’t forget joe got knocked out of the playoffs before the Super Bowl every year he played except 4 seasons
> 
> So if Brady never made it to the Super Bowl the years he lost you’d be sitting here saying Brady is perfect 5 and 0 in his super bowl appearances. Well I’d rather be 5 and 1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I'm not judging that based solely on how many Super Bowls a player played in, but how they performed in those Super Bowls.  Montana had a great game-winning drive against the Bengals in a close game.  He also had 4 TDs against Miami in a dominant win, and 5 TDs against Denver in a blowout win.  Montana never threw a pick in 4 Super Bowls.  Montana never lost in 4 Super Bowls.  Montana never had fewer than 2 TDs in a Super Bowl.  Montana's lowest QB rating for a Super Bowl is 100, his highest is 147.6.
> 
> Brady only had 1 TD in the first loss to the Giants.  Brady threw picks in 4 of his 8 Super Bowls, and had that huge fumble in the Eagles game (Montana never lost a fumble or threw a pick).  Brady never had a blow-out or dominant win.  *Brady's winning % in the Super Bowl is only .500*.  Brady's lowest QB rating for a Super Bowl is 82.5.  His lowest rating in a Super Bowl he won is 86.2.  Brady's highest rating is 115.4.
> 
> When you look at how they performed in Super Bowls, Montana was better than Brady.  If Montana had played in 4 more Super Bowls, perhaps it would have evened out some, but going by the body of work available, Montana was consistently excellent in the big game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Since when is 5-3 .500?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I must have been thinking of games he'd thrown a pick in at the time, rather than wins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No quarterback has ever lead their team to 8 super bowls, winning 5 of them ...It'll never be done again...Enough said hater
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I picked Brady as the best QB, and I'm a hater?
> 
> Brady wasn't as good in the Super Bowl as Montana.  That's not a knock on Brady, it's a testament to how amazingly well Montana played in the Super Bowls he was in.
Click to expand...


Brady (and I'm a hater too so this is honest)
Montana ( I loved him and would love to argue he's the GOAT but he's not)
Bart Starr.  Sounds like he was really good.

Who are 4-10?


----------



## rightwinger

my2¢ said:


> Otto Graham played 10 years and played in 10 league championship games (winning 4 in AAFC and 3 after merger with NFL).  However the only time I saw Graham on the field was when he was the head coach of the Redskins.  In the QB favored era we have today he still ranks up there with regard to QB rating (26th historically).  So while I voted for Tom Brady, I really would like to split it between the Brady and Graham.



That was a different era before the NFL took off in popularity

Graham had to beat eight other teams in the AAFC and 12 teams in the NFL
You won your division and went straight to the championship game

Brady has to beat out 31 other teams and win at least 3 playoff games to be champion
Much more difficult


----------



## Paulie

rightwinger said:


> Missing from the list
> 
> Aaron Rogers
> Drew Brees
> Roger Staubach
> Warren Moon


None of them belong on this list. Rodgers is great and it's totally possible he could eventually belong here but right now he just doesn't


----------



## rightwinger

sealybobo said:


> 80zephyr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bart Starr won 5 NFL championships in 7 years. He also has the all time high quarterback rating of playoff quarterbacks with 104.8 And he accomplished this in an era where the games rules didn't favor passing.
> 
> Pretty clear to me.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> What would Brady have to do to pass him?
Click to expand...


I saw Bart Starr play
He executed the power sweep and just jammed the ball down your throat
Very good QB but not an all time great (Johnny U was much better at the time)

Starr won five NFL titles at a time you only had to beat 13 other teams. Win the Western Conference and go straight to the title game
Guys like Brady and Montana had to beat out 31 other teams and win 3 games in the playoffs


----------



## 80zephyr

sealybobo said:


> 80zephyr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bart Starr won 5 NFL championships in 7 years. He also has the all time high quarterback rating of playoff quarterbacks with 104.8 And he accomplished this in an era where the games rules didn't favor passing.
> 
> Pretty clear to me.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> What would Brady have to do to pass him?
Click to expand...


Not sure, since today the passing game is favored by the rules.

Mark


----------



## 80zephyr

gipper said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> william the wie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I went with Terry Bradshaw because of Brady working with the much better coach and organization but I consider it more of a photo finish than a runaway win. The Pats do well even without Brady
> 
> 
> 
> The Steelers would have done very well without Bradshaw.  Hell...they have a dozen players in the Hall of Fame.  The Patriots under Brady, not even close. Brady is ten times the QB that Bradshaw was.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Steelers had the best defense I ever saw
> I think any average QB could have won with them. Just hand the ball to Franco
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 80zephyr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bart Starr won 5 NFL championships in 7 years. He also has the all time high quarterback rating of playoff quarterbacks with 104.8 And he accomplished this in an era where the games rules didn't favor passing.
> 
> Pretty clear to me.
> 
> Mark
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What would Brady have to do to pass him?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but again, Starr was surrounded by great players.
Click to expand...


Sure he was. As are almost any championship teams. And with the passing rules the way they were back then...

Mark


----------



## 80zephyr

rightwinger said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 80zephyr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bart Starr won 5 NFL championships in 7 years. He also has the all time high quarterback rating of playoff quarterbacks with 104.8 And he accomplished this in an era where the games rules didn't favor passing.
> 
> Pretty clear to me.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> What would Brady have to do to pass him?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I saw Bart Starr play
> He executed the power sweep and just jammed the ball down your throat
> Very good QB but not an all time great (Johnny U was much better at the time)
> 
> Starr won five NFL titles at a time you only had to beat 13 other teams. Win the Western Conference and go straight to the title game
> Guys like Brady and Montana had to beat out 31 other teams and win 3 games in the playoffs
Click to expand...


Maybe todays players aren't as good as yesterdays in a way. 518 players in 1962 in the NFL. Almost 1,700 players today.

Mark


----------



## Jroc

Montrovant said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Montana only went to the Super Bowl 4 Times. You are rewarding him for not making it to more super bowls. Or you are punishing Brady for making it to more super bowls. Don’t forget joe got knocked out of the playoffs before the Super Bowl every year he played except 4 seasons
> 
> So if Brady never made it to the Super Bowl the years he lost you’d be sitting here saying Brady is perfect 5 and 0 in his super bowl appearances. Well I’d rather be 5 and 1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I'm not judging that based solely on how many Super Bowls a player played in, but how they performed in those Super Bowls.  Montana had a great game-winning drive against the Bengals in a close game.  He also had 4 TDs against Miami in a dominant win, and 5 TDs against Denver in a blowout win.  Montana never threw a pick in 4 Super Bowls.  Montana never lost in 4 Super Bowls.  Montana never had fewer than 2 TDs in a Super Bowl.  Montana's lowest QB rating for a Super Bowl is 100, his highest is 147.6.
> 
> Brady only had 1 TD in the first loss to the Giants.  Brady threw picks in 4 of his 8 Super Bowls, and had that huge fumble in the Eagles game (Montana never lost a fumble or threw a pick).  Brady never had a blow-out or dominant win.  *Brady's winning % in the Super Bowl is only .500*.  Brady's lowest QB rating for a Super Bowl is 82.5.  His lowest rating in a Super Bowl he won is 86.2.  Brady's highest rating is 115.4.
> 
> When you look at how they performed in Super Bowls, Montana was better than Brady.  If Montana had played in 4 more Super Bowls, perhaps it would have evened out some, but going by the body of work available, Montana was consistently excellent in the big game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Since when is 5-3 .500?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I must have been thinking of games he'd thrown a pick in at the time, rather than wins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No quarterback has ever lead their team to 8 super bowls, winning 5 of them ...It'll never be done again...Enough said hater
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I picked Brady as the best QB, and I'm a hater?
> 
> Brady wasn't as good in the Super Bowl as Montana.  That's not a knock on Brady, it's a testament to how amazingly well Montana played in the Super Bowls he was in.
Click to expand...



Its a lot easier when you have the best receiver ever to play the game to throw it to


----------



## rightwinger

80zephyr said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 80zephyr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bart Starr won 5 NFL championships in 7 years. He also has the all time high quarterback rating of playoff quarterbacks with 104.8 And he accomplished this in an era where the games rules didn't favor passing.
> 
> Pretty clear to me.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> What would Brady have to do to pass him?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I saw Bart Starr play
> He executed the power sweep and just jammed the ball down your throat
> Very good QB but not an all time great (Johnny U was much better at the time)
> 
> Starr won five NFL titles at a time you only had to beat 13 other teams. Win the Western Conference and go straight to the title game
> Guys like Brady and Montana had to beat out 31 other teams and win 3 games in the playoffs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe todays players aren't as good as yesterdays in a way. 518 players in 1962 in the NFL. Almost 1,700 players today.
> 
> Mark
Click to expand...


In 1962, the NFL was a weak sister to baseball. Its players sold cars and ran liquor distributorships in the off season

In 1962 you also had players in the AFL


----------



## gipper

rightwinger said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 80zephyr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bart Starr won 5 NFL championships in 7 years. He also has the all time high quarterback rating of playoff quarterbacks with 104.8 And he accomplished this in an era where the games rules didn't favor passing.
> 
> Pretty clear to me.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> What would Brady have to do to pass him?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I saw Bart Starr play
> He executed the power sweep and just jammed the ball down your throat
> Very good QB but not an all time great (Johnny U was much better at the time)
> 
> Starr won five NFL titles at a time you only had to
Click to expand...




80zephyr said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> william the wie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I went with Terry Bradshaw because of Brady working with the much better coach and organization but I consider it more of a photo finish than a runaway win. The Pats do well even without Brady
> 
> 
> 
> The Steelers would have done very well without Bradshaw.  Hell...they have a dozen players in the Hall of Fame.  The Patriots under Brady, not even close. Brady is ten times the QB that Bradshaw was.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Steelers had the best defense I ever saw
> I think any average QB could have won with them. Just hand the ball to Franco
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 80zephyr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bart Starr won 5 NFL championships in 7 years. He also has the all time high quarterback rating of playoff quarterbacks with 104.8 And he accomplished this in an era where the games rules didn't favor passing.
> 
> Pretty clear to me.
> 
> Mark
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What would Brady have to do to pass him?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but again, Starr was surrounded by great players.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure he was. As are almost any championship teams. And with the passing rules the way they were back then...
> 
> Mark
Click to expand...

There is no doubt Starr was great, but IMO not nearly as good as Brady.  You say all championship teams have great players, but I don't think Brady's Patriot teams have anywhere near as many great players as Starr's or Bradshaw's teams.


----------



## gipper

Jroc said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I'm not judging that based solely on how many Super Bowls a player played in, but how they performed in those Super Bowls.  Montana had a great game-winning drive against the Bengals in a close game.  He also had 4 TDs against Miami in a dominant win, and 5 TDs against Denver in a blowout win.  Montana never threw a pick in 4 Super Bowls.  Montana never lost in 4 Super Bowls.  Montana never had fewer than 2 TDs in a Super Bowl.  Montana's lowest QB rating for a Super Bowl is 100, his highest is 147.6.
> 
> Brady only had 1 TD in the first loss to the Giants.  Brady threw picks in 4 of his 8 Super Bowls, and had that huge fumble in the Eagles game (Montana never lost a fumble or threw a pick).  Brady never had a blow-out or dominant win.  *Brady's winning % in the Super Bowl is only .500*.  Brady's lowest QB rating for a Super Bowl is 82.5.  His lowest rating in a Super Bowl he won is 86.2.  Brady's highest rating is 115.4.
> 
> When you look at how they performed in Super Bowls, Montana was better than Brady.  If Montana had played in 4 more Super Bowls, perhaps it would have evened out some, but going by the body of work available, Montana was consistently excellent in the big game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since when is 5-3 .500?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I must have been thinking of games he'd thrown a pick in at the time, rather than wins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No quarterback has ever lead their team to 8 super bowls, winning 5 of them ...It'll never be done again...Enough said hater
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I picked Brady as the best QB, and I'm a hater?
> 
> Brady wasn't as good in the Super Bowl as Montana.  That's not a knock on Brady, it's a testament to how amazingly well Montana played in the Super Bowls he was in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Its a lot easier when you have the best receiver ever to play the game to throw it to
Click to expand...

No doubt.


----------



## Marion Morrison

Jroc said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I'm not judging that based solely on how many Super Bowls a player played in, but how they performed in those Super Bowls.  Montana had a great game-winning drive against the Bengals in a close game.  He also had 4 TDs against Miami in a dominant win, and 5 TDs against Denver in a blowout win.  Montana never threw a pick in 4 Super Bowls.  Montana never lost in 4 Super Bowls.  Montana never had fewer than 2 TDs in a Super Bowl.  Montana's lowest QB rating for a Super Bowl is 100, his highest is 147.6.
> 
> Brady only had 1 TD in the first loss to the Giants.  Brady threw picks in 4 of his 8 Super Bowls, and had that huge fumble in the Eagles game (Montana never lost a fumble or threw a pick).  Brady never had a blow-out or dominant win.  *Brady's winning % in the Super Bowl is only .500*.  Brady's lowest QB rating for a Super Bowl is 82.5.  His lowest rating in a Super Bowl he won is 86.2.  Brady's highest rating is 115.4.
> 
> When you look at how they performed in Super Bowls, Montana was better than Brady.  If Montana had played in 4 more Super Bowls, perhaps it would have evened out some, but going by the body of work available, Montana was consistently excellent in the big game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since when is 5-3 .500?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I must have been thinking of games he'd thrown a pick in at the time, rather than wins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No quarterback has ever lead their team to 8 super bowls, winning 5 of them ...It'll never be done again...Enough said hater
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I picked Brady as the best QB, and I'm a hater?
> 
> Brady wasn't as good in the Super Bowl as Montana.  That's not a knock on Brady, it's a testament to how amazingly well Montana played in the Super Bowls he was in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Its a lot easier when you have the best receiver ever to play the game to throw it to
Click to expand...


Idk who Brady's receivers are, but I do know who Montana's were.

Montana was a badass, I've seen the pocket collapse, he scrambled, juked and made 35 yards by his damn self. I haven't watched that much Brady, but Joe was damn impressive.


----------



## sealybobo

gipper said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since when is 5-3 .500?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I must have been thinking of games he'd thrown a pick in at the time, rather than wins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No quarterback has ever lead their team to 8 super bowls, winning 5 of them ...It'll never be done again...Enough said hater
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I picked Brady as the best QB, and I'm a hater?
> 
> Brady wasn't as good in the Super Bowl as Montana.  That's not a knock on Brady, it's a testament to how amazingly well Montana played in the Super Bowls he was in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Its a lot easier when you have the best receiver ever to play the game to throw it to
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No doubt.
Click to expand...

Really?  Tell that to Matthew Stafford who sucked even though he had Megatron for 10 years.


----------



## Jroc

sealybobo said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I must have been thinking of games he'd thrown a pick in at the time, rather than wins.
> 
> 
> 
> No quarterback has ever lead their team to 8 super bowls, winning 5 of them ...It'll never be done again...Enough said hater
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I picked Brady as the best QB, and I'm a hater?
> 
> Brady wasn't as good in the Super Bowl as Montana.  That's not a knock on Brady, it's a testament to how amazingly well Montana played in the Super Bowls he was in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Its a lot easier when you have the best receiver ever to play the game to throw it to
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No doubt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really?  Tell that to Matthew Stafford who sucked even though he had Megatron for 10 years.
Click to expand...



its also nice to have an offensive line and defense worth a shit


----------



## gipper

sealybobo said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I must have been thinking of games he'd thrown a pick in at the time, rather than wins.
> 
> 
> 
> No quarterback has ever lead their team to 8 super bowls, winning 5 of them ...It'll never be done again...Enough said hater
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I picked Brady as the best QB, and I'm a hater?
> 
> Brady wasn't as good in the Super Bowl as Montana.  That's not a knock on Brady, it's a testament to how amazingly well Montana played in the Super Bowls he was in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Its a lot easier when you have the best receiver ever to play the game to throw it to
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No doubt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really?  Tell that to Matthew Stafford who sucked even though he had Megatron for 10 years.
Click to expand...

That is funny.  The Lions as an organization have sucked for 60 years.  I suspect there is a lot of other things effecting why they are such losers.


----------



## Slash

80zephyr said:


> Bart Starr won 5 NFL championships in 7 years. He also has the all time high quarterback rating of playoff quarterbacks with 104.8 And he accomplished this in an era where the games rules didn't favor passing.
> 
> Pretty clear to me.
> 
> Mark



The issue with Starr is he played in an era where the QB's value was less.   He won a SB where he threw for 85 yards.  We just saw Brady lose one he threw for 500 in.  QB's are relied upon more today to do more.  Brady has the same number of TD's and INT's (15:3) in the last two playoffs as Bart Starr had for his entire career.  

Also half of his championships he came out on top of a 13 team league.   Brady has come out on top of a 16 team league (the AFC) 8 times.  

Also Bart never won a SB where his D didn't finish top 3 in points allowed (his last one was the only time they weren't top 2). His opponents never scored over 14 points when he won a SB (averaged 8 points by the opposing team in his SB wins).  

I like Bart Starr a lot, and he did play really well in the post-season.   But I don't think his regular season comes anywhere close to Brady's and in the post-season, yes he's got the efficiency and volume of Brady the past two years in the playoffs.   But then Brady has 13 other post-seasons, 4 SB wins, and 6 SB appearances that Starr does not have.


----------



## Slash

Jroc said:


> Its a lot easier when you have the best receiver ever to play the game to throw it to



And Montana was a 2 time SB winner and SB MVP before Jerry Rice was out of college.  

For me, and I am NOT a Brady fan (My Eagles just won a SB!) here's my list. 

1. Brady
2. Montana
then comes some mix of Unitas, Marino, Peyton, Staubach, Favre, Bradshaw, Graham, Starr


----------



## rightwinger

Slash said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its a lot easier when you have the best receiver ever to play the game to throw it to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Montana was a 2 time SB winner and SB MVP before Jerry Rice was out of college.
> 
> For me, and I am NOT a Brady fan (My Eagles just won a SB!) here's my list.
> 
> 1. Brady
> 2. Montana
> then comes some mix of Unitas, Marino, Peyton, Staubach, Favre, Bradshaw, Graham, Starr
Click to expand...


Hard to evaluate Unitas....it was a different era
But he was the first modern, gunslinging QB and changed the position


----------



## Slash

rightwinger said:


> Hard to evaluate Unitas....it was a different era
> But he was the first modern, gunslinging QB and changed the position



Agree, it is so tough to evaluate across era's which is partly why I stick to the two I've seen.   

But it's tough to favor the modern guys who play when the rules make it the easiest to throw the football.   I mean the minute the NFL changed the passing rules, a past his prime Bradshaw led the league in TD's (twice in 5 years) and won regular season MVP.  

And then you have the WCO that has proliferated the entire NFL.   Used to be players weren't playing for efficiency, but the big play.  Imagine in 20 years we are grading WR's based on yards per catch, the most efficient WR.   Jerry Rice is barely top 200 there. Does that mean he's now mediocre?  

I think Aikman and Elway get seriously knocked for not playing in a WCO (Elway did at the end and poof, his efficiency numbers popped right up to Montana levels).  

But best of the best I tend to lean with a guy who did something over coming up with reasons someone else didn't do that.  

IE.  Marino.  AMAZING QB.   HOFer in his first 4 years.  He was that good.   And his team was outrushed by something like 170 yards in his losses on average.  HORRENDOUS D and run game. Only QB to ever overcome that kind of rushing disparity in the post-season?   Marino beat the Browns once in a game they ran for over 250 yards against Miami.   So expecting him to be able to do what nobody else ever could to win games is tough.  Seriously, it's something like 30% of the biggest rushing discrepancies in post-season play of ALL of NFL history had Marino on the losing end of them.  

Anyways, lots of great reasons he should be #1, and why he didn't have that post-season success.   But when it comes to best of best.   He didn't have that success (and QB is the only one I really weigh here barring insane stuff like Terrell Davis or Marvin Harrison).  

But that's my thoughts and the fun thing is, its not wrong.  Just like Starr at #1 isn't necessarily wrong.  I have my reasons he isn't atop my list, but that's me.


----------



## sealybobo

gipper said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> No quarterback has ever lead their team to 8 super bowls, winning 5 of them ...It'll never be done again...Enough said hater
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I picked Brady as the best QB, and I'm a hater?
> 
> Brady wasn't as good in the Super Bowl as Montana.  That's not a knock on Brady, it's a testament to how amazingly well Montana played in the Super Bowls he was in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Its a lot easier when you have the best receiver ever to play the game to throw it to
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No doubt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really?  Tell that to Matthew Stafford who sucked even though he had Megatron for 10 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is funny.  The Lions as an organization have sucked for 60 years.  I suspect there is a lot of other things effecting why they are such losers.
Click to expand...


I know what the problem is!!!

Detroit Lions | Think Ford First


----------



## my2¢

Slash said:


> For me, and I am NOT a Brady fan (My Eagles just won a SB!) here's my list.
> 
> 1. Brady
> 2. Montana
> then comes some mix of Unitas, Marino, Peyton, Staubach, Favre, Bradshaw, Graham, Starr



I voted for Brady too.  And while I am not an Eagles fan, for the QB I enjoyed most to watch it was Randall Cunningham.


----------



## GHook93

Papageorgio said:


> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.



It is not even a question anymore. 5 rings, 8 SB, had a chance to win all of them, ridiculous stats in both the pre and post season, 16-0, near perfect season, yes he had Gronk and post-prime Moss, but he never had anyone the caliber of Jerry Rice like Montana.

1. Brady
2. Montana
3. Manning 
4. Elway
5. Mariano (yea yea I know he has no rings and his post season success was non-existent, but he was still awesome)


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


----------



## rightwinger

my2¢ said:


> Slash said:
> 
> 
> 
> For me, and I am NOT a Brady fan (My Eagles just won a SB!) here's my list.
> 
> 1. Brady
> 2. Montana
> then comes some mix of Unitas, Marino, Peyton, Staubach, Favre, Bradshaw, Graham, Starr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I voted for Brady too.  And while I am not an Eagles fan, for the QB I enjoyed most to watch it was Randall Cunningham.
Click to expand...

I'm a Giants fan and I loved Cunningham. He could beat you in so many ways

I remember one game we had the Eagles pinned down inside the 5. They put Cunningham in to punt from the end zone and he punted a 90 yard roller. Turned the game around


----------



## konradv

Unitas was a superstar in the days before QBs were protected from almost all contact.  How would Brady do, if he knew he could get smacked hard on every passing play?


----------



## rightwinger

konradv said:


> Unitas was a superstar in the days before QBs were protected from almost all contact.  How would Brady do, if he knew he could get smacked hard on every passing play?



Brady is pretty tough

I think he would have picked apart those 1950s and 60s Defenses


----------



## BuckToothMoron

ChrisL said:


> Tom Brady.  The proof is in last night's game.  One important part of being a good QB is being a good leader and being able to lead the team to victory.  To be able to keep the fire in the bellies of the players last night was pretty darn good leadership and motivational skills, considering how far behind they were.  However, they never gave up and kept on fighting until the end and that is all due to good leadership and incredible motivation and determination.



Brady is the best by default. He won the most, but the last 2 SB wins were gifts from the teams they were playing.


----------



## BuckToothMoron

yiostheoy said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.
> 
> 
> 
> Two of Brady's rings are from pure luck.
> 
> Those should not count.
> 
> That leaves Bradshaw and Montana.
> 
> Hard to say which of Bradshaw or Montana was best.
> 
> Bradshaw was tougher.
> 
> Montana was smarter.
Click to expand...


Bradshaw is not even top 5 in my book. He played with dominate defense. A good leader, but not that special. He way behind Elway, Manning, Favre, young,


----------



## BuckToothMoron

Here are the top 5

Brady
Montana
Elway
Young 
Farve 

Guys that were leaders, great passers, and could make a play with their legs when need be.


----------



## McFury

Tom Brady.
Montana ,Elway, Favre and Manning put all together did not achieve what Brady did.
Don't forget that Brady lost 3 rings in the Superbowl cause of lack of defense.


----------



## rightwinger

McFury said:


> Tom Brady.
> Montana ,Elway, Mariano and Manning put all together did not achieve what Brady did.
> Don't forget that Brady lost 3 rings in the Superbowl cause of lack of defense.



500 yards passing is not enough?


----------



## BuckToothMoron

McFury said:


> Tom Brady.
> Montana ,Elway, Favre and Manning put all together did not achieve what Brady did.
> Don't forget that Brady lost 3 rings in the Superbowl cause of lack of defense.



He won 2 because of lack of brains from the opposing coaching staff, so there’s that. But I agree, win 5 and you’re the best.


----------



## Slash

McFury said:


> Tom Brady.
> Montana ,Elway, Favre and Manning put all together did not achieve what Brady did.
> Don't forget that Brady lost 3 rings in the Superbowl cause of lack of defense.



I'd say lost 1 because of lack of defense.  

The other two he lost, the D gave up 19 and 17.  1 team in the past 20 years won a SB by scoring less than 20 points offensively (2001 pats).  

Allowing 17 points with the greatest offense in NFL history on your side I don't put on the D.  Last time a team won a SB with fewer offensive points was a Purple People Eater vs. Steel Curtain game over 40 years ago.  

You could argue the D played bad situationally at the end after nearly pitching shutouts for 50 minutes.  But then who cares about 500 yards of offense if you are fumbling the game away when it's on the line late right?  

That's not taking anything away from Brady by the way.  Still the goat.  But allowing 18 a game is not on the D.  

2007 Pats scored 37 a game and got 14 in the SB
2007 Giants scored 23 a game and got 17 in the SB

Not hard to see which side of the ball flopped.


----------



## Slash

BuckToothMoron said:


> yiostheoy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.
> 
> 
> 
> Two of Brady's rings are from pure luck.
> 
> Those should not count.
> 
> That leaves Bradshaw and Montana.
> 
> Hard to say which of Bradshaw or Montana was best.
> 
> Bradshaw was tougher.
> 
> Montana was smarter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bradshaw is not even top 5 in my book. He played with dominate defense. A good leader, but not that special. He way behind Elway, Manning, Favre, young,
Click to expand...


That's fine.  Favre never won a SB without the #1 D and #1 ST unit on his side.  Bradshaw won 3 of them without that.   

I put in Bradshaw because he played really well when it was the hardest time to throw the football in the NFL.  Then post-prime, when passing opened up in his last 5 years he won a league MVP and led the league in TD's twice.  

And yes he had a great D, but he was huge in winning those SB's.  112.8 QB rating in the SB.  For comparison Tom Brady has a 98 QB rating in that game.  Only Montana has a higher QB rating. Of course Bradshaw did that when the average QB rating was around 62 when it was the hardest time to throw the ball in league history (outside of the first years when incomplete passes were a penalty, and could only throw once per drive).  

And talking clutch. Bradshaw in the 4th quarter of his 4 SB's.   151 QB rating.  That's insane and why he came back from losing in half of them.

If I am going to judge QB's on what they did with everything on the line.  Being nearly perfect in SB 4th quarters is pretty fricking clutch.   

But the fun of lists, is you can have your reasons.


----------



## ChrisL

Well, Joe Montana is Tom Brady's favorite QB.  Lol.  He's said that Joe Montana was his childhood hero.


----------



## Wyatt earp

McFury said:


> Tom Brady.
> Montana ,Elway, Favre and Manning put all together did not achieve what Brady did.
> Don't forget that Brady lost 3 rings in the Superbowl cause of lack of defense.




Bullshit if Brady was drafted by the Bears he would of sucked and been cut after a few years like Rex Grossman. It was more the coach then Brady


----------



## rightwinger

bear513 said:


> McFury said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tom Brady.
> Montana ,Elway, Favre and Manning put all together did not achieve what Brady did.
> Don't forget that Brady lost 3 rings in the Superbowl cause of lack of defense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit if Brady was drafted by the Bears he would of sucked and been cut after a few years like Rex Grossman. It was more the coach then Brady
Click to expand...


With many great QBs a lot has to do with the team around you and the coaching staff


----------



## BuckToothMoron

Slash said:


> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yiostheoy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.
> 
> 
> 
> Two of Brady's rings are from pure luck.
> 
> Those should not count.
> 
> That leaves Bradshaw and Montana.
> 
> Hard to say which of Bradshaw or Montana was best.
> 
> Bradshaw was tougher.
> 
> Montana was smarter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bradshaw is not even top 5 in my book. He played with dominate defense. A good leader, but not that special. He way behind Elway, Manning, Favre, young,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's fine.  Favre never won a SB without the #1 D and #1 ST unit on his side.  Bradshaw won 3 of them without that.
> 
> I put in Bradshaw because he played really well when it was the hardest time to throw the football in the NFL.  Then post-prime, when passing opened up in his last 5 years he won a league MVP and led the league in TD's twice.
> 
> And yes he had a great D, but he was huge in winning those SB's.  112.8 QB rating in the SB.  For comparison Tom Brady has a 98 QB rating in that game.  Only Montana has a higher QB rating. Of course Bradshaw did that when the average QB rating was around 62 when it was the hardest time to throw the ball in league history (outside of the first years when incomplete passes were a penalty, and could only throw once per drive).
> 
> And talking clutch. Bradshaw in the 4th quarter of his 4 SB's.   151 QB rating.  That's insane and why he came back from losing in half of them.
> 
> If I am going to judge QB's on what they did with everything on the line.  Being nearly perfect in SB 4th quarters is pretty fricking clutch.
> 
> But the fun of lists, is you can have your reasons.
Click to expand...

never had anything close to that defense

Bradshaw had the steel curtain defense. Farve never had a defense like that and he won 3 league MVP’s. You have have to have complimentary players around you. Elway carried the Broncos to 3 losing Super Bowls without another hall of Famer on offense. When he got some help, he won back to back. Too bad it was at the end of his career.


----------



## rightwinger

Best I have seen

Brady
Montana 
Manning
Elway
Marino


----------



## Sunni Man

Has anyone mentioned Roger Staubach?

His name wasn't on the OP's poll list.

But he should rank up there pretty high.  ....


----------



## BuckToothMoron

rightwinger said:


> Best I have seen
> 
> Brady
> Montana
> Manning
> Elway
> Marino



I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had  the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.


----------



## Montrovant

BuckToothMoron said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Best I have seen
> 
> Brady
> Montana
> Manning
> Elway
> Marino
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had  the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.
Click to expand...


Is running ability a requirement for a great QB?  And why not take exception to Brady, as well?

Brady, Montana, and Marino were/are all pretty slow as QBs go....but all did/do a very good job avoiding pressure and getting rid of the ball when necessary.


----------



## BuckToothMoron

Montrovant said:


> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Best I have seen
> 
> Brady
> Montana
> Manning
> Elway
> Marino
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had  the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is running ability a requirement for a great QB?  And why not take exception to Brady, as well?
> 
> Brady, Montana, and Marino were/are all pretty slow as QBs go....but all did/do a very good job avoiding pressure and getting rid of the ball when necessary.
Click to expand...


Montana was fairly nimble in the pocket, and Brady is a master at getting a yard when needed with the QB Sneak. Besides, Brady and Montana have 9 Super Bowl wins between them, and winning trumps everything. If Marino, or someone like Dan Fouts had won multiple superbowls or even gone to multiple superbowls then they’d be in the conversation.


----------



## rightwinger

BuckToothMoron said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Best I have seen
> 
> Brady
> Montana
> Manning
> Elway
> Marino
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had  the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.
Click to expand...

It all comes down to results

Did you complete the pass, how many yards did you pass for? Did you get a TD?

If Manning and Marino get superior results without scrambling and improvising it all comes down to the end result


----------



## Montrovant

BuckToothMoron said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Best I have seen
> 
> Brady
> Montana
> Manning
> Elway
> Marino
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had  the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is running ability a requirement for a great QB?  And why not take exception to Brady, as well?
> 
> Brady, Montana, and Marino were/are all pretty slow as QBs go....but all did/do a very good job avoiding pressure and getting rid of the ball when necessary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Montana was fairly nimble in the pocket, and Brady is a master at getting a yard when needed with the QB Sneak. Besides, Brady and Montana have 9 Super Bowl wins between them, and winning trumps everything. If Marino, or someone like Dan Fouts had won multiple superbowls or even gone to multiple superbowls then they’d be in the conversation.
Click to expand...


While I don't think Super Bowls are the be all, end all of determine how good a QB was, I understand it as a measuring stick.


----------



## rightwinger

Montrovant said:


> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Best I have seen
> 
> Brady
> Montana
> Manning
> Elway
> Marino
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had  the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is running ability a requirement for a great QB?  And why not take exception to Brady, as well?
> 
> Brady, Montana, and Marino were/are all pretty slow as QBs go....but all did/do a very good job avoiding pressure and getting rid of the ball when necessary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Montana was fairly nimble in the pocket, and Brady is a master at getting a yard when needed with the QB Sneak. Besides, Brady and Montana have 9 Super Bowl wins between them, and winning trumps everything. If Marino, or someone like Dan Fouts had won multiple superbowls or even gone to multiple superbowls then they’d be in the conversation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While I don't think Super Bowls are the be all, end all of determine how good a QB was, I understand it as a measuring stick.
Click to expand...


But winning championships is the best delineator of the greatest QB of all time
Performance under pressure and delivering cannot be ignored

It is like a closer in baseball
Compiling saves throughout the year is one thing

But shutting down a rally in game 7 of the World Series establishes greatness


----------



## Likkmee

Terry Bradshaw


----------



## Montrovant

rightwinger said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Best I have seen
> 
> Brady
> Montana
> Manning
> Elway
> Marino
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had  the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is running ability a requirement for a great QB?  And why not take exception to Brady, as well?
> 
> Brady, Montana, and Marino were/are all pretty slow as QBs go....but all did/do a very good job avoiding pressure and getting rid of the ball when necessary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Montana was fairly nimble in the pocket, and Brady is a master at getting a yard when needed with the QB Sneak. Besides, Brady and Montana have 9 Super Bowl wins between them, and winning trumps everything. If Marino, or someone like Dan Fouts had won multiple superbowls or even gone to multiple superbowls then they’d be in the conversation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While I don't think Super Bowls are the be all, end all of determine how good a QB was, I understand it as a measuring stick.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But winning championships is the best delineator of the greatest QB of all time
> Performance under pressure and delivering cannot be ignored
> 
> It is like a closer in baseball
> Compiling saves throughout the year is one thing
> 
> But shutting down a rally in game 7 of the World Series establishes greatness
Click to expand...


Football is still a team sport.  Marino is an all time great, regardless of not winning a Super Bowl, IMO.


----------



## Marion Morrison

I voted for Joe Money, but in reality, Brady has won more.

At least my pick is the same as Brady's.


----------



## rightwinger

Montrovant said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had  the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is running ability a requirement for a great QB?  And why not take exception to Brady, as well?
> 
> Brady, Montana, and Marino were/are all pretty slow as QBs go....but all did/do a very good job avoiding pressure and getting rid of the ball when necessary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Montana was fairly nimble in the pocket, and Brady is a master at getting a yard when needed with the QB Sneak. Besides, Brady and Montana have 9 Super Bowl wins between them, and winning trumps everything. If Marino, or someone like Dan Fouts had won multiple superbowls or even gone to multiple superbowls then they’d be in the conversation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While I don't think Super Bowls are the be all, end all of determine how good a QB was, I understand it as a measuring stick.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But winning championships is the best delineator of the greatest QB of all time
> Performance under pressure and delivering cannot be ignored
> 
> It is like a closer in baseball
> Compiling saves throughout the year is one thing
> 
> But shutting down a rally in game 7 of the World Series establishes greatness
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Football is still a team sport.  Marino is an all time great, regardless of not winning a Super Bowl, IMO.
Click to expand...


I agree

Under more favorable conditions, Marino could have been the GOAT. But it didn't happen

Archie Manning played for the hapless Saints and had an obscure career. Put him on the Steelers or Raiders in the 1970s and he could have been an all time great. That is why he was so careful about who his sons would play for


----------



## BuckToothMoron

Montrovant said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had  the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is running ability a requirement for a great QB?  And why not take exception to Brady, as well?
> 
> Brady, Montana, and Marino were/are all pretty slow as QBs go....but all did/do a very good job avoiding pressure and getting rid of the ball when necessary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Montana was fairly nimble in the pocket, and Brady is a master at getting a yard when needed with the QB Sneak. Besides, Brady and Montana have 9 Super Bowl wins between them, and winning trumps everything. If Marino, or someone like Dan Fouts had won multiple superbowls or even gone to multiple superbowls then they’d be in the conversation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While I don't think Super Bowls are the be all, end all of determine how good a QB was, I understand it as a measuring stick.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But winning championships is the best delineator of the greatest QB of all time
> Performance under pressure and delivering cannot be ignored
> 
> It is like a closer in baseball
> Compiling saves throughout the year is one thing
> 
> But shutting down a rally in game 7 of the World Series establishes greatness
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Football is still a team sport.  Marino is an all time great, regardless of not winning a Super Bowl, IMO.
Click to expand...


He absolutely is, just not one of the top 5.


----------



## Decus

Montrovant said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had  the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is running ability a requirement for a great QB?  And why not take exception to Brady, as well?
> 
> Brady, Montana, and Marino were/are all pretty slow as QBs go....but all did/do a very good job avoiding pressure and getting rid of the ball when necessary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Montana was fairly nimble in the pocket, and Brady is a master at getting a yard when needed with the QB Sneak. Besides, Brady and Montana have 9 Super Bowl wins between them, and winning trumps everything. If Marino, or someone like Dan Fouts had won multiple superbowls or even gone to multiple superbowls then they’d be in the conversation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While I don't think Super Bowls are the be all, end all of determine how good a QB was, I understand it as a measuring stick.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But winning championships is the best delineator of the greatest QB of all time
> Performance under pressure and delivering cannot be ignored
> 
> It is like a closer in baseball
> Compiling saves throughout the year is one thing
> 
> But shutting down a rally in game 7 of the World Series establishes greatness
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Football is still a team sport.  Marino is an all time great, regardless of not winning a Super Bowl, IMO.
Click to expand...


I grew up with the Dolphins and watched most of the games. I have to disagree. Marino had a quick release and two great receivers - Clayton and Duper. Both receivers often made Marino look good - they managed to catch some of the most inaccurate passes I've ever seen. 

Marino also hated to get hit which had him screaming at his offensive line every time he got touched. He was rarely willing to hold the ball until a receiver got open - and risk getting hit - which partially explains his frequent lack of accuracy. Duper was truly Super and Clayton a magician in their ability to catch shit passes. 

After Clayton and Duper left the team Marino's stats dropped.

.


----------



## Ridgerunner

I never watched a game this year for obvious reasons... I miss the NFL... I made a promise to myself I would not watch anymore until Goodell takes a powder... He has embarrassed the league... 
Replacements for Goodell... Condoleezza Rice and Peyton Manning... Co-Commish's


----------



## BuckToothMoron

rightwinger said:


> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Best I have seen
> 
> Brady
> Montana
> Manning
> Elway
> Marino
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had  the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It all comes down to results
> 
> Did you complete the pass, how many yards did you pass for? Did you get a TD?
> 
> If Manning and Marino get superior results without scrambling and improvising it all comes down to the end result
Click to expand...


True that, and the ultimate results is winning. Marino nor Manning could have never made the helicopter play Elway made even late in his career.


----------



## Geaux4it

Joe Montana

-Geaux


----------



## rightwinger

BuckToothMoron said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Best I have seen
> 
> Brady
> Montana
> Manning
> Elway
> Marino
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had  the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It all comes down to results
> 
> Did you complete the pass, how many yards did you pass for? Did you get a TD?
> 
> If Manning and Marino get superior results without scrambling and improvising it all comes down to the end result
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True that, and the ultimate results is winning. Marino nor Manning could have never made the helicopter play Elway made even late in his career.
Click to expand...


But QBs who make those kind of plays tend to have short careers
Scrambling and sacrificing your body to make a TD will make the highlight reels

But like we saw with RGIII and Carson Wentz putting your body at risk can keep you from greatness


----------



## BuckToothMoron

rightwinger said:


> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Best I have seen
> 
> Brady
> Montana
> Manning
> Elway
> Marino
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had  the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It all comes down to results
> 
> Did you complete the pass, how many yards did you pass for? Did you get a TD?
> 
> If Manning and Marino get superior results without scrambling and improvising it all comes down to the end result
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True that, and the ultimate results is winning. Marino nor Manning could have never made the helicopter play Elway made even late in his career.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But QBs who make those kind of plays tend to have short careers
> Scrambling and sacrificing your body to make a TD will make the highlight reels
> 
> But like we saw with RGIII and Carson Wentz putting your body at risk can keep you from greatness
Click to expand...


That’s true, it is the truly great QBs who know when to do it.


----------



## Montrovant

BuckToothMoron said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Best I have seen
> 
> Brady
> Montana
> Manning
> Elway
> Marino
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had  the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It all comes down to results
> 
> Did you complete the pass, how many yards did you pass for? Did you get a TD?
> 
> If Manning and Marino get superior results without scrambling and improvising it all comes down to the end result
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True that, and the ultimate results is winning. Marino nor Manning could have never made the helicopter play Elway made even late in his career.
Click to expand...


Manning won just as many Super Bowls as Elway, and more games in total, with a better winning %.  Elway did have a better winning % in the playoffs, though.
Peyton Manning Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
John Elway Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Interesting tidbit: Manning went to 4 Super Bowls with 4 different head coaches, the only player to do that.


----------



## rightwinger

Montrovant said:


> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Best I have seen
> 
> Brady
> Montana
> Manning
> Elway
> Marino
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had  the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It all comes down to results
> 
> Did you complete the pass, how many yards did you pass for? Did you get a TD?
> 
> If Manning and Marino get superior results without scrambling and improvising it all comes down to the end result
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True that, and the ultimate results is winning. Marino nor Manning could have never made the helicopter play Elway made even late in his career.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning won just as many Super Bowls as Elway, and more games in total, with a better winning %.  Elway did have a better winning % in the playoffs, though.
> Peyton Manning Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
> John Elway Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
> 
> Interesting tidbit: Manning went to 4 Super Bowls with 4 different head coaches, the only player to do that.
Click to expand...


I just can't put Elway as my all time greatest

I just can't forget the beatdown Joe Montana gave him in the Superbowl....something like 55-10
No way I could ever put Elway over Montana


----------



## BuckToothMoron

Montrovant said:


> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Best I have seen
> 
> Brady
> Montana
> Manning
> Elway
> Marino
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had  the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It all comes down to results
> 
> Did you complete the pass, how many yards did you pass for? Did you get a TD?
> 
> If Manning and Marino get superior results without scrambling and improvising it all comes down to the end result
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True that, and the ultimate results is winning. Marino nor Manning could have never made the helicopter play Elway made even late in his career.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning won just as many Super Bowls as Elway, and more games in total, with a better winning %.  Elway did have a better winning % in the playoffs, though.
> Peyton Manning Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
> John Elway Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
> 
> Interesting tidbit: Manning went to 4 Super Bowls with 4 different head coaches, the only player to do that.
Click to expand...


That’s true, but the Bronco defense carried Manning to his last super Bowl  victory. Conversely Elway was the MVP of the last Super Bowl he won.


----------



## BuckToothMoron

rightwinger said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Best I have seen
> 
> Brady
> Montana
> Manning
> Elway
> Marino
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had  the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It all comes down to results
> 
> Did you complete the pass, how many yards did you pass for? Did you get a TD?
> 
> If Manning and Marino get superior results without scrambling and improvising it all comes down to the end result
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True that, and the ultimate results is winning. Marino nor Manning could have never made the helicopter play Elway made even late in his career.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning won just as many Super Bowls as Elway, and more games in total, with a better winning %.  Elway did have a better winning % in the playoffs, though.
> Peyton Manning Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
> John Elway Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
> 
> Interesting tidbit: Manning went to 4 Super Bowls with 4 different head coaches, the only player to do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just can't put Elway as my all time greatest
> 
> I just can't forget the beatdown Joe Montana gave him in the Superbowl....something like 55-10
> No way I could ever put Elway over Montana
Click to expand...


Oh I totally agree with that. In my mind, the debate starts at number 3, because Brady/Montana are 1-2.


----------



## Montrovant

BuckToothMoron said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Best I have seen
> 
> Brady
> Montana
> Manning
> Elway
> Marino
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had  the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It all comes down to results
> 
> Did you complete the pass, how many yards did you pass for? Did you get a TD?
> 
> If Manning and Marino get superior results without scrambling and improvising it all comes down to the end result
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True that, and the ultimate results is winning. Marino nor Manning could have never made the helicopter play Elway made even late in his career.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning won just as many Super Bowls as Elway, and more games in total, with a better winning %.  Elway did have a better winning % in the playoffs, though.
> Peyton Manning Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
> John Elway Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
> 
> Interesting tidbit: Manning went to 4 Super Bowls with 4 different head coaches, the only player to do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s true, but the Bronco defense carried Manning to his last super Bowl  victory. Conversely Elway was the MVP of the last Super Bowl he won.
Click to expand...


Manning never played exceptionally well in the Super Bowl.  When the Colts lost to the Saints, his numbers were actually comparable to Elway's when the Broncos beat the Falcons, but Manning definitely benefited from his defenses in his Super Bowl wins.

Manning was spectacular in the regular season, though.


----------



## rightwinger

Montrovant said:


> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had  the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.
> 
> 
> 
> It all comes down to results
> 
> Did you complete the pass, how many yards did you pass for? Did you get a TD?
> 
> If Manning and Marino get superior results without scrambling and improvising it all comes down to the end result
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True that, and the ultimate results is winning. Marino nor Manning could have never made the helicopter play Elway made even late in his career.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning won just as many Super Bowls as Elway, and more games in total, with a better winning %.  Elway did have a better winning % in the playoffs, though.
> Peyton Manning Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
> John Elway Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
> 
> Interesting tidbit: Manning went to 4 Super Bowls with 4 different head coaches, the only player to do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s true, but the Bronco defense carried Manning to his last super Bowl  victory. Conversely Elway was the MVP of the last Super Bowl he won.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning never played exceptionally well in the Super Bowl.  When the Colts lost to the Saints, his numbers were actually comparable to Elway's when the Broncos beat the Falcons, but Manning definitely benefited from his defenses in his Super Bowl wins.
> 
> Manning was spectacular in the regular season, though.
Click to expand...


Manning cost them the game against the Saints
With a chance to take the lead in the 4th quarter, he threw a pick 6....lost them the game


----------



## GHook93

konradv said:


> Unitas was a superstar in the days before QBs were protected from almost all contact.  How would Brady do, if he knew he could get smacked hard on every passing play?



Are you kidding. Players nowadays are 10x bigger, stronger and faster. The game requires more strategy. The better question is how would Unitas compete today!


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


----------



## konradv

GHook93 said:


> konradv said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unitas was a superstar in the days before QBs were protected from almost all contact.  How would Brady do, if he knew he could get smacked hard on every passing play?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you kidding. Players nowadays are 10x bigger, stronger and faster. The game requires more strategy. The better question is how would Unitas compete today!
Click to expand...

With the protection QBs get today I don't doubt he'd be able to pick defenses apart.  QB is about smarts as much as athleticism.


----------



## ChrisL

Montrovant said:


> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta say, I take exception to Manning and Marino in that group. They were legendary passers, Marino had the quickest release all time, Manning was like a computer. However neither had the ability to really change a play or create something when the play failed. The farves, Youngs and Elways had  the ability to extend a play, give their team a chance on a play that they created.
> 
> 
> 
> It all comes down to results
> 
> Did you complete the pass, how many yards did you pass for? Did you get a TD?
> 
> If Manning and Marino get superior results without scrambling and improvising it all comes down to the end result
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True that, and the ultimate results is winning. Marino nor Manning could have never made the helicopter play Elway made even late in his career.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning won just as many Super Bowls as Elway, and more games in total, with a better winning %.  Elway did have a better winning % in the playoffs, though.
> Peyton Manning Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
> John Elway Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
> 
> Interesting tidbit: Manning went to 4 Super Bowls with 4 different head coaches, the only player to do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s true, but the Bronco defense carried Manning to his last super Bowl  victory. Conversely Elway was the MVP of the last Super Bowl he won.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning never played exceptionally well in the Super Bowl.  When the Colts lost to the Saints, his numbers were actually comparable to Elway's when the Broncos beat the Falcons, but Manning definitely benefited from his defenses in his Super Bowl wins.
> 
> Manning was spectacular in the regular season, though.
Click to expand...


I really like and respect Peyton, but when he played with the Colts in the earlier days he had a LOT of great and reliable go-to receivers.  That definitely helps his stats.


----------



## Montrovant

ChrisL said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It all comes down to results
> 
> Did you complete the pass, how many yards did you pass for? Did you get a TD?
> 
> If Manning and Marino get superior results without scrambling and improvising it all comes down to the end result
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True that, and the ultimate results is winning. Marino nor Manning could have never made the helicopter play Elway made even late in his career.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning won just as many Super Bowls as Elway, and more games in total, with a better winning %.  Elway did have a better winning % in the playoffs, though.
> Peyton Manning Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
> John Elway Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
> 
> Interesting tidbit: Manning went to 4 Super Bowls with 4 different head coaches, the only player to do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s true, but the Bronco defense carried Manning to his last super Bowl  victory. Conversely Elway was the MVP of the last Super Bowl he won.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning never played exceptionally well in the Super Bowl.  When the Colts lost to the Saints, his numbers were actually comparable to Elway's when the Broncos beat the Falcons, but Manning definitely benefited from his defenses in his Super Bowl wins.
> 
> Manning was spectacular in the regular season, though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I really like and respect Peyton, but when he played with the Colts in the earlier days he had a LOT of great and reliable go-to receivers.  That definitely helps his stats.
Click to expand...


That's because the Colts built the team around the offense while neglecting the defense.


----------



## ChrisL

Montrovant said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> True that, and the ultimate results is winning. Marino nor Manning could have never made the helicopter play Elway made even late in his career.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manning won just as many Super Bowls as Elway, and more games in total, with a better winning %.  Elway did have a better winning % in the playoffs, though.
> Peyton Manning Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
> John Elway Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
> 
> Interesting tidbit: Manning went to 4 Super Bowls with 4 different head coaches, the only player to do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s true, but the Bronco defense carried Manning to his last super Bowl  victory. Conversely Elway was the MVP of the last Super Bowl he won.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning never played exceptionally well in the Super Bowl.  When the Colts lost to the Saints, his numbers were actually comparable to Elway's when the Broncos beat the Falcons, but Manning definitely benefited from his defenses in his Super Bowl wins.
> 
> Manning was spectacular in the regular season, though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I really like and respect Peyton, but when he played with the Colts in the earlier days he had a LOT of great and reliable go-to receivers.  That definitely helps his stats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because the Colts built the team around the offense while neglecting the defense.
Click to expand...


I don't really know that much about them as a team, but they were definitely good on offense back when Peyton was the man!    He kind of seemed to have lost something since he was injured.


----------



## ChrisL

I would imagine that when a player suffers a serious injury, the psychological factors and fear of being hurt and injured plays a HUGE role in their future performances.  Some of them can probably get past that while others never really do.


----------



## Montrovant

ChrisL said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manning won just as many Super Bowls as Elway, and more games in total, with a better winning %.  Elway did have a better winning % in the playoffs, though.
> Peyton Manning Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
> John Elway Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
> 
> Interesting tidbit: Manning went to 4 Super Bowls with 4 different head coaches, the only player to do that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That’s true, but the Bronco defense carried Manning to his last super Bowl  victory. Conversely Elway was the MVP of the last Super Bowl he won.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning never played exceptionally well in the Super Bowl.  When the Colts lost to the Saints, his numbers were actually comparable to Elway's when the Broncos beat the Falcons, but Manning definitely benefited from his defenses in his Super Bowl wins.
> 
> Manning was spectacular in the regular season, though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I really like and respect Peyton, but when he played with the Colts in the earlier days he had a LOT of great and reliable go-to receivers.  That definitely helps his stats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because the Colts built the team around the offense while neglecting the defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't really know that much about them as a team, but they were definitely good on offense back when Peyton was the man!    He kind of seemed to have lost something since he was injured.
Click to expand...


Yeah, a combination of the injury and age caught up to Manning.


----------



## Montrovant

ChrisL said:


> I would imagine that when a player suffers a serious injury, the psychological factors and fear of being hurt and injured plays a HUGE role in their future performances.  Some of them can probably get past that while others never really do.



In Manning's case I think the issue was physical.  His neck injury hurt his arm strength, particularly as he was reaching the age when QBs normally retire anyway.


----------



## ChrisL

Montrovant said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would imagine that when a player suffers a serious injury, the psychological factors and fear of being hurt and injured plays a HUGE role in their future performances.  Some of them can probably get past that while others never really do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Manning's case I think the issue was physical.  His neck injury hurt his arm strength, particularly as he was reaching the age when QBs normally retire anyway.
Click to expand...


Perhaps.  If they are still playing well, like Brady, then I don't have a problem with keeping them around!  I think Brady still has at least a couple of good years left in him.  He is not a very physical QB, so he doesn't take a whole lot of hard hits.


----------



## DrLove

Papageorgio said:


> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.



WoW - This is a tough one. Obviously Brady is the top pick, likely because he's so fresh in everyone's mind and has four rings.

Favre only has one, but I chose him (before he left Green Bay) simply because the guy was SO much fun to watch. The obvious joy and passion he had playing the game always shined through. He blew his legacy by hanging on at least 3-4 years too many and all the tearful retirements followed by a change of heart. Not smart. 

I'd probably go with Tom Terrific next and then Elway - who had a similar love for the game. I was a little kid when some of the others played and really didn't get into the NFL (or CFB) until high school and beyond.

But Brett? He was fun!


----------



## ChrisL

DrLove said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WoW - This is a tough one. Obviously Brady is the top pick, likely because he's so fresh in everyone's mind and has four rings.
> 
> Favre only has one, but I chose him (before he left Green Bay) simply because the guy was SO much fun to watch. The obvious joy and passion he had playing the game always shined through. He blew his legacy by hanging on at least 3-4 years too many and all the tearful retirements followed by a change of heart. Not smart.
> 
> I'd probably go with Tom Terrific next and then Elway - who had a similar love for the game. I was a little kid when some of the others played and really didn't get into the NFL (or CFB) until high school and beyond.
> 
> But Brett? He was fun!
Click to expand...


5 rings for Brady!  FIVE!


----------



## ChrisL




----------



## rightwinger

Montrovant said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> That’s true, but the Bronco defense carried Manning to his last super Bowl  victory. Conversely Elway was the MVP of the last Super Bowl he won.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manning never played exceptionally well in the Super Bowl.  When the Colts lost to the Saints, his numbers were actually comparable to Elway's when the Broncos beat the Falcons, but Manning definitely benefited from his defenses in his Super Bowl wins.
> 
> Manning was spectacular in the regular season, though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I really like and respect Peyton, but when he played with the Colts in the earlier days he had a LOT of great and reliable go-to receivers.  That definitely helps his stats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because the Colts built the team around the offense while neglecting the defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't really know that much about them as a team, but they were definitely good on offense back when Peyton was the man!    He kind of seemed to have lost something since he was injured.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, a combination of the injury and age caught up to Manning.
Click to expand...

Manning came back from a near parilizing neck injury and threw for 50 TD passes

He lost his skills about a year later


----------



## ChrisL

DrLove said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WoW - This is a tough one. Obviously Brady is the top pick, likely because he's so fresh in everyone's mind and has four rings.
> 
> Favre only has one, but I chose him (before he left Green Bay) simply because the guy was SO much fun to watch. The obvious joy and passion he had playing the game always shined through. He blew his legacy by hanging on at least 3-4 years too many and all the tearful retirements followed by a change of heart. Not smart.
> 
> I'd probably go with Tom Terrific next and then Elway - who had a similar love for the game. I was a little kid when some of the others played and really didn't get into the NFL (or CFB) until high school and beyond.
> 
> But Brett? He was fun!
Click to expand...


I did like Brett Favre a lot too.  He made some amazing plays, but he took things a bit too far with the "will he or won't he retire" bit.  He just started to become annoying at that point.  He was exciting to watch in his day though.


----------



## rightwinger

ChrisL said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WoW - This is a tough one. Obviously Brady is the top pick, likely because he's so fresh in everyone's mind and has four rings.
> 
> Favre only has one, but I chose him (before he left Green Bay) simply because the guy was SO much fun to watch. The obvious joy and passion he had playing the game always shined through. He blew his legacy by hanging on at least 3-4 years too many and all the tearful retirements followed by a change of heart. Not smart.
> 
> I'd probably go with Tom Terrific next and then Elway - who had a similar love for the game. I was a little kid when some of the others played and really didn't get into the NFL (or CFB) until high school and beyond.
> 
> But Brett? He was fun!
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 5 rings for Brady!  FIVE!
Click to expand...

Bling


----------



## DrLove

ChrisL said:


>



Was it FIVE for Tom Terrific? Wiki needs to update that. Yeah, he's one slippery goose in the pocket. I do think a couple of the SB wins and wins in the AFC title game were a bit lucky, although you know what they say - You make your own luck. No question as to his arm strength and deft accuracy. He's one of those guys who really isn't remembered as being a great player in college - but sure blossomed. 

He's the dude every guy in America would love to be (for a week or two anyway ;-)


----------



## rightwinger

DrLove said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was it FIVE for Tom Terrific? Wiki needs to update that. Yeah, he's one slippery goose in the pocket. I do think a couple of the SB wins and wins in the AFC title game were a bit lucky, although you know what they say - You make your own luck. No question as to his arm strength and deft accuracy. He's one of those guys who really isn't remembered as being a great player in college - but sure blossomed.
> 
> He's the dude every guy in America would love to be (for a week or two anyway ;-)
Click to expand...

I always thought Gisele had a man-face


----------



## ChrisL

rightwinger said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was it FIVE for Tom Terrific? Wiki needs to update that. Yeah, he's one slippery goose in the pocket. I do think a couple of the SB wins and wins in the AFC title game were a bit lucky, although you know what they say - You make your own luck. No question as to his arm strength and deft accuracy. He's one of those guys who really isn't remembered as being a great player in college - but sure blossomed.
> 
> He's the dude every guy in America would love to be (for a week or two anyway ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I always thought Giselle had a man-face
Click to expand...


Me too.  Not that she is ugly, but she is overrated, IMO.  There are plenty of women who are MUCH more beautiful.


----------



## DrLove

rightwinger said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was it FIVE for Tom Terrific? Wiki needs to update that. Yeah, he's one slippery goose in the pocket. I do think a couple of the SB wins and wins in the AFC title game were a bit lucky, although you know what they say - You make your own luck. No question as to his arm strength and deft accuracy. He's one of those guys who really isn't remembered as being a great player in college - but sure blossomed.
> 
> He's the dude every guy in America would love to be (for a week or two anyway ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I always thought Giselle had a man-face
Click to expand...


Partially agree - but oh that bod


----------



## ChrisL

DrLove said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was it FIVE for Tom Terrific? Wiki needs to update that. Yeah, he's one slippery goose in the pocket. I do think a couple of the SB wins and wins in the AFC title game were a bit lucky, although you know what they say - You make your own luck. No question as to his arm strength and deft accuracy. He's one of those guys who really isn't remembered as being a great player in college - but sure blossomed.
> 
> He's the dude every guy in America would love to be (for a week or two anyway ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I always thought Giselle had a man-face
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Partially agree - but oh that bod
Click to expand...


Meh, her body isn't all that great either, TBH.  A bit straight in the waist, IMO.  She is really tall, skinny and muscular.


----------



## DrLove

ChrisL said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was it FIVE for Tom Terrific? Wiki needs to update that. Yeah, he's one slippery goose in the pocket. I do think a couple of the SB wins and wins in the AFC title game were a bit lucky, although you know what they say - You make your own luck. No question as to his arm strength and deft accuracy. He's one of those guys who really isn't remembered as being a great player in college - but sure blossomed.
> 
> He's the dude every guy in America would love to be (for a week or two anyway ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I always thought Giselle had a man-face
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Partially agree - but oh that bod
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Meh, her body isn't all that great either, TBH.  A bit straight in the waist, IMO.  She is really tall, skinny and muscular.
Click to expand...


Different body types for different guys. 

Most men like the ginormous boobs. I'll take the small to mediums with a nice tight butt.


----------



## ChrisL

DrLove said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was it FIVE for Tom Terrific? Wiki needs to update that. Yeah, he's one slippery goose in the pocket. I do think a couple of the SB wins and wins in the AFC title game were a bit lucky, although you know what they say - You make your own luck. No question as to his arm strength and deft accuracy. He's one of those guys who really isn't remembered as being a great player in college - but sure blossomed.
> 
> He's the dude every guy in America would love to be (for a week or two anyway ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I always thought Giselle had a man-face
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Partially agree - but oh that bod
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Meh, her body isn't all that great either, TBH.  A bit straight in the waist, IMO.  She is really tall, skinny and muscular.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Different body types for different guys.
> 
> Most men like the ginormous boobs. I'll take the small to mediums with a nice tight butt.
Click to expand...


Sure, you are posting photoshopped/edited professional pics.  I am showing the real thing which looks like your average woman at the beach.


----------



## DrLove

ChrisL said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was it FIVE for Tom Terrific? Wiki needs to update that. Yeah, he's one slippery goose in the pocket. I do think a couple of the SB wins and wins in the AFC title game were a bit lucky, although you know what they say - You make your own luck. No question as to his arm strength and deft accuracy. He's one of those guys who really isn't remembered as being a great player in college - but sure blossomed.
> 
> He's the dude every guy in America would love to be (for a week or two anyway ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I always thought Giselle had a man-face
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Partially agree - but oh that bod
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Meh, her body isn't all that great either, TBH.  A bit straight in the waist, IMO.  She is really tall, skinny and muscular.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Different body types for different guys.
> 
> Most men like the ginormous boobs. I'll take the small to mediums with a nice tight butt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure, you are posting photoshopped/edited professional pics.  I am showing the real thing which looks like your average woman at the beach.
Click to expand...


Fair point - but i'd still like to play


----------



## ChrisL

DrLove said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I always thought Giselle had a man-face
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Partially agree - but oh that bod
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Meh, her body isn't all that great either, TBH.  A bit straight in the waist, IMO.  She is really tall, skinny and muscular.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Different body types for different guys.
> 
> Most men like the ginormous boobs. I'll take the small to mediums with a nice tight butt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure, you are posting photoshopped/edited professional pics.  I am showing the real thing which looks like your average woman at the beach.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fair point - but i'd still like to play
Click to expand...


Maybe you should think about setting more realistic goals for yourself.


----------



## Montrovant

rightwinger said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manning never played exceptionally well in the Super Bowl.  When the Colts lost to the Saints, his numbers were actually comparable to Elway's when the Broncos beat the Falcons, but Manning definitely benefited from his defenses in his Super Bowl wins.
> 
> Manning was spectacular in the regular season, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really like and respect Peyton, but when he played with the Colts in the earlier days he had a LOT of great and reliable go-to receivers.  That definitely helps his stats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because the Colts built the team around the offense while neglecting the defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't really know that much about them as a team, but they were definitely good on offense back when Peyton was the man!    He kind of seemed to have lost something since he was injured.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, a combination of the injury and age caught up to Manning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Manning came back from a near parilizing neck injury and threw for 50 TD passes
> 
> He lost his skills about a year later
Click to expand...


Even in the 50 TD year, Manning had noticeably lost some arm strength.  That neck injury took something out of him physically.  He was able to make up for it with his intelligence for a while, but in the end, that and his age were too much to overcome.  What he did after that injury was impressive as hell, though.


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## BuckToothMoron

ChrisL said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Montrovant said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manning won just as many Super Bowls as Elway, and more games in total, with a better winning %.  Elway did have a better winning % in the playoffs, though.
> Peyton Manning Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
> John Elway Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
> 
> Interesting tidbit: Manning went to 4 Super Bowls with 4 different head coaches, the only player to do that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That’s true, but the Bronco defense carried Manning to his last super Bowl  victory. Conversely Elway was the MVP of the last Super Bowl he won.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning never played exceptionally well in the Super Bowl.  When the Colts lost to the Saints, his numbers were actually comparable to Elway's when the Broncos beat the Falcons, but Manning definitely benefited from his defenses in his Super Bowl wins.
> 
> Manning was spectacular in the regular season, though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I really like and respect Peyton, but when he played with the Colts in the earlier days he had a LOT of great and reliable go-to receivers.  That definitely helps his stats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because the Colts built the team around the offense while neglecting the defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't really know that much about them as a team, but they were definitely good on offense back when Peyton was the man!    He kind of seemed to have lost something since he was injured.
Click to expand...


Actually, he had his best statistical season after the injury when he was with the Broncos. In 2013 he set a record with 55 TDs passes and broke the record for passing yards.


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## rightwinger

BuckToothMoron said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> That’s true, but the Bronco defense carried Manning to his last super Bowl  victory. Conversely Elway was the MVP of the last Super Bowl he won.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manning never played exceptionally well in the Super Bowl.  When the Colts lost to the Saints, his numbers were actually comparable to Elway's when the Broncos beat the Falcons, but Manning definitely benefited from his defenses in his Super Bowl wins.
> 
> Manning was spectacular in the regular season, though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I really like and respect Peyton, but when he played with the Colts in the earlier days he had a LOT of great and reliable go-to receivers.  That definitely helps his stats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because the Colts built the team around the offense while neglecting the defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't really know that much about them as a team, but they were definitely good on offense back when Peyton was the man!    He kind of seemed to have lost something since he was injured.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, he had his best statistical season after the injury when he was with the Broncos. In 2013 he set a record with 55 TDs passes and broke the record for passing yards.
Click to expand...

That was an amazing season
But he still was destroyed by the Seahawks in the SB

I couldn't believe how quickly he lost his skills. I saw it happen with Unitas and Namath too

Someday it will be Brady


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## BuckToothMoron

ChrisL said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
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> 
> 
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> DrLove said:
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> 
> 
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> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was it FIVE for Tom Terrific? Wiki needs to update that. Yeah, he's one slippery goose in the pocket. I do think a couple of the SB wins and wins in the AFC title game were a bit lucky, although you know what they say - You make your own luck. No question as to his arm strength and deft accuracy. He's one of those guys who really isn't remembered as being a great player in college - but sure blossomed.
> 
> He's the dude every guy in America would love to be (for a week or two anyway ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I always thought Giselle had a man-face
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Partially agree - but oh that bod
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Meh, her body isn't all that great either, TBH.  A bit straight in the waist, IMO.  She is really tall, skinny and muscular.
Click to expand...


WAAAAAAY too skinny! These gaunt super models don’t do it for me. I like shape and curves.


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## Montrovant

I'm surprised to see Bradshaw coming in 3rd in the voting.


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## rightwinger

Montrovant said:


> I'm surprised to see Bradshaw coming in 3rd in the voting.


Terry is much better than many give him credit for

But he is top 10 not an all time great


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## ChrisL

rightwinger said:


> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manning never played exceptionally well in the Super Bowl.  When the Colts lost to the Saints, his numbers were actually comparable to Elway's when the Broncos beat the Falcons, but Manning definitely benefited from his defenses in his Super Bowl wins.
> 
> Manning was spectacular in the regular season, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really like and respect Peyton, but when he played with the Colts in the earlier days he had a LOT of great and reliable go-to receivers.  That definitely helps his stats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because the Colts built the team around the offense while neglecting the defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't really know that much about them as a team, but they were definitely good on offense back when Peyton was the man!    He kind of seemed to have lost something since he was injured.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, he had his best statistical season after the injury when he was with the Broncos. In 2013 he set a record with 55 TDs passes and broke the record for passing yards.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was an amazing season
> But he still was destroyed by the Seahawks in the SB
> 
> I couldn't believe how quickly he lost his skills. I saw it happen with Unitas and Namath too
> 
> Someday it will be Brady
Click to expand...


  Shhhhhh!  Don't say that!


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## ChrisL

BuckToothMoron said:


> ChrisL said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> DrLove said:
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> 
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> 
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> rightwinger said:
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> DrLove said:
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> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was it FIVE for Tom Terrific? Wiki needs to update that. Yeah, he's one slippery goose in the pocket. I do think a couple of the SB wins and wins in the AFC title game were a bit lucky, although you know what they say - You make your own luck. No question as to his arm strength and deft accuracy. He's one of those guys who really isn't remembered as being a great player in college - but sure blossomed.
> 
> He's the dude every guy in America would love to be (for a week or two anyway ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I always thought Giselle had a man-face
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Partially agree - but oh that bod
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Meh, her body isn't all that great either, TBH.  A bit straight in the waist, IMO.  She is really tall, skinny and muscular.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WAAAAAAY too skinny! These gaunt super models don’t do it for me. I like shape and curves.
Click to expand...


Most super models are really tall and really skinny.  She is probably considered "meaty" on the runway!


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## rightwinger

ChrisL said:


> BuckToothMoron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was it FIVE for Tom Terrific? Wiki needs to update that. Yeah, he's one slippery goose in the pocket. I do think a couple of the SB wins and wins in the AFC title game were a bit lucky, although you know what they say - You make your own luck. No question as to his arm strength and deft accuracy. He's one of those guys who really isn't remembered as being a great player in college - but sure blossomed.
> 
> He's the dude every guy in America would love to be (for a week or two anyway ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I always thought Giselle had a man-face
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Partially agree - but oh that bod
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Meh, her body isn't all that great either, TBH.  A bit straight in the waist, IMO.  She is really tall, skinny and muscular.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WAAAAAAY too skinny! These gaunt super models don’t do it for me. I like shape and curves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most super models are really tall and really skinny.  She is probably considered "meaty" on the runway!
Click to expand...


I still don't see super model in her

Many, many "average" models who are more beautiful


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## ShootSpeeders

No question it's J T Barrett but we seem to be confining ourselves to the fat baldies in the NFL and there it is unquestionably peyton manning.  All time leader in yards passing and 5 regular season MVPs.  Nobody else ( at any position) has more than 3.


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## sealybobo

rightwinger said:


> ChrisL said:
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> BuckToothMoron said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> DrLove said:
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> rightwinger said:
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> I always thought Giselle had a man-face
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Partially agree - but oh that bod
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Meh, her body isn't all that great either, TBH.  A bit straight in the waist, IMO.  She is really tall, skinny and muscular.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WAAAAAAY too skinny! These gaunt super models don’t do it for me. I like shape and curves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most super models are really tall and really skinny.  She is probably considered "meaty" on the runway!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I still don't see super model in her
> 
> Many, many "average" models who are more beautiful
Click to expand...

Well she made it to supermodel status however she did it she did. She’s not perfect but maybe she’s real and real cool and he’s actually in love with her.

I know this doctor. They call him mcdreamy. His wife is a 6. But she carries herself like a 8 and is probably a freak in bed.

They really do seem like a great couple I hope they last. She probably does tell him what to do so what? That’s cute


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## ShootSpeeders

Montrovant said:


> I'm surprised to see Bradshaw coming in 3rd in the voting.



I wonder.  Is terry BIG ENOUGH to play today.?  In his day he was considered a huge QB at 6 3 but nowadays they want them 6 4 +.


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## Lewdog

ShootSpeeders said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm surprised to see Bradshaw coming in 3rd in the voting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder.  Is terry BIG ENOUGH to play today.?  In his day he was considered a huge QB at 6 3 but nowadays they want them 6 4 +.
Click to expand...


Drew Brees proves size isn't everything.


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## sealybobo

Lewdog said:


> ShootSpeeders said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm surprised to see Bradshaw coming in 3rd in the voting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder.  Is terry BIG ENOUGH to play today.?  In his day he was considered a huge QB at 6 3 but nowadays they want them 6 4 +.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Drew Brees proves size isn't everything.
Click to expand...

Doug flute proved it is. Tebow too


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## Dale Smith

Papageorgio said:


> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.



Roger Staubach should have been on that list but MY favorite and best QB of all time to me is Tony Romo. He made the best of what he had to work with and he played the game with a child-like enthusiasm. He was a leader and he is a good human being. One time he stopped and helped change a tire on the car of an elderly couple on Highway 635 one Sunday night after the Cowboys charter flight had landed. He never told them his name but they recognized him....they wrote a letter to the editor of the Dallas Morning News so he could be recognized for his act of kindness but he did that kind of stuff all the time. He made the Cowboys fun to watch because he would pull plays out of his ass and he was for many years all that they had. 

I liked Troy Aikman but he didn't have the ability to put the team on his back and carry them nor did he have that "will to win". He was only as good as those around him but Tony Romo was worth the price of admission each and every game. Many QBs on that list were fun to watch but they weren't like Tony Romo...Brett Favre comes closest to being that "must see" every game QB.


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## Montrovant

Lewdog said:


> ShootSpeeders said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm surprised to see Bradshaw coming in 3rd in the voting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder.  Is terry BIG ENOUGH to play today.?  In his day he was considered a huge QB at 6 3 but nowadays they want them 6 4 +.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Drew Brees proves size isn't everything.
Click to expand...


Or Russel Wilson.  

Although I do understand the logic behind wanting taller QBs.  Watching Brees crane his neck to see over his Oline can be hilarious.


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## ShootSpeeders

Dale Smith said:


> Roger Staubach should have been on that list but MY favorite and best QB of all time to me is Tony Romo. He made the best of what he had to work with and he played the game with a child-like enthusiasm. He was a leader and he is a good human being. One time he stopped and helped change a tire on the car of an elderly couple on Highway 635 one Sunday night after the Cowboys charter flight had landed. He never told them his name but they recognized him....they wrote a letter to the editor of the Dallas Morning News so he could be recognized for his act of kindness but he did that kind of stuff all the time.



He changed a tire and you think that makes him a great QB???


----------



## rightwinger

Dale Smith said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?
> 
> What is your criteria? Over the decades the game has changed and evolved, every era has had their greats. Who is the greatest? I listed 12 QB's not sure if I left anyone who could be considered as a top QB.
> 
> 
> Make your case of who is the greatest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roger Staubach should have been on that list but MY favorite and best QB of all time to me is Tony Romo. He made the best of what he had to work with and he played the game with a child-like enthusiasm. He was a leader and he is a good human being. One time he stopped and helped change a tire on the car of an elderly couple on Highway 635 one Sunday night after the Cowboys charter flight had landed. He never told them his name but they recognized him....they wrote a letter to the editor of the Dallas Morning News so he could be recognized for his act of kindness but he did that kind of stuff all the time. He made the Cowboys fun to watch because he would pull plays out of his ass and he was for many years all that they had.
> 
> I liked Troy Aikman but he didn't have the ability to put the team on his back and carry them nor did he have that "will to win". He was only as good as those around him but Tony Romo was worth the price of admission each and every game. Many QBs on that list were fun to watch but they weren't like Tony Romo...Brett Favre comes closest to being that "must see" every game QB.
Click to expand...


I remember when Roger Staubach came back from the Navy. Craig Morton was the Dallas QB and Tom Landry would rotate them on every play. He finally settled on Staubach and would shuttle in running backs with the next play

Traditionalists were outraged that Staubach did not call his own plays. He will NEVER be a great QB because he gets his plays from the sidelines. Now every QB has a radio to get the plays

Staubach was also the first QB to regularly use the shotgun on obvious passing plays


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## ChrisL

Tom Brady in the lead with 25 votes.


----------

