# Pregnant librarian shot dead. Self Defense?



## Otis Mayfield (Nov 25, 2021)

A case of road rage in Central Florida left one of the motorists, a mother-to-be, dead last Saturday evening.

According to the Orange City Police Department, the incident began around 5 p.m. Nov. 20 when Sara Nicole Morales, 35, hit Andrew Derr’s motorcycle with her blue Kia. It is unclear why she hit his bike.

Though Derr was not injured or ejected in the “minor accident,” he said he followed Morales to get her information for law enforcement after she drove away from the scene, according to investigators.

Derr, along with two witnesses, verbally attempted to have Morales stop at the intersection while she was making a left turn, but she refused, says a social media release.

Morales drove to her home and went inside. Derr and the witnesses followed her. They stopped in the roadway in front of her home and called 911, say investigators. Morales re-emerged a short time later with a firearm and pointed it at them, continues the post.

Derr, who has a valid Florida concealed weapons permit, drew his concealed handgun and fired, striking Morales “multiple times.”

The motorcyclist remained on scene, where Orange City Fire Rescue responded to provide medical care. Morales was transported to a local hospital where she died from her injuries.

The woman, a Volusia County librarian, was reportedly four to five months pregnant and leaves behind an 11-year-old daughter and a fiancé.

As of Wednesday, no one had been charged in this case, though police say an investigation is ongoing.

In newly released bodycam video, Derr can be seen on the ground.

“That girl tried to kill me,” he says. “She pointed a gun at me. I’m so sorry.”




			https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article256086977.html#storylink=cpy
		




Pregnant woman hits motorcycle guy in a minor accident with her Kia. The bike didn't even fall over.

Woman flees scene of the accident. Guy on bike follows her.

Woman goes into house, comes out with a gun.

Man shoots her dead.

Self defense?


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## Confederate Soldier (Nov 25, 2021)

Yes, self defense.

It was a hit and run, a misdemeanor at least, a felony at most. It's illegal. Motorcycles are expensive, and if you can get insurance to cover bent parts or messed up paintwork, by all means you should get the drivers info.

A call to 911 wouldn't have done much, because 9/10 unless you got the license plate no. or video, you can't do much about it, so following is an option. Stupid? Yes. 

But the kicker is when she comes out with a gun and points it at people. That's the big no-no. That is a justified reason to fire back if you think your life is in danger. It's just a big unfortunate fuck up.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 25, 2021)

yes


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## Otis Mayfield (Nov 25, 2021)

Confederate Soldier said:


> Yes, self defense.
> 
> It was a hit and run, a misdemeanor at least, a felony at most. It's illegal. Motorcycles are expensive, and if you can get insurance to cover bent parts or messed up paintwork, by all means you should get the drivers info.
> 
> ...



I would've got her plate and car and her with my phone camera.

I wouldn't have shot her. I would've put my hands up. Odds are a librarian isn't going to pull the trigger.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 25, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> I wouldn't have shot her. I would've put my hands up. Odds are a librarian isn't going to pull the trigger.


And how did you know she was a librarian?  At the scene all you see is a lady who just ran over someone and now is coming at you with a gun.

I'd have shot.


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## Esdraelon (Nov 25, 2021)

As long as he didn't attempt to lay hands on her or step onto her property, then yes, he was justified to fire on her.  She shouldn't have gone outside with a gun.


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## Otis Mayfield (Nov 25, 2021)

You all are some stone-cold killers.

Why not just let her go?


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## jackflash (Nov 25, 2021)

I would have taken the license plate number down as well as the address of the residence she went into, drove down the block then contact the police & report a hit & run. Human life once dead can not be repaired.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 25, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> You all are some stone-cold killers.
> 
> Why not just let her go?


How about she doesn't run over people with a car.?


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## JGalt (Nov 25, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> I would've got her plate and car and her with my phone camera.
> 
> I wouldn't have shot her. I would've put my hands up. Odds are a librarian isn't going to pull the trigger.



So he knew she was a librarian?

She was the aggressor, and then she then took off. They followed her and then she retrieved a gun and pointed it at them

She chose bad choices.


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## RetiredGySgt (Nov 25, 2021)

Yes self defense if accurately described, as soon as she pointed the firearm at him he was allowed to defend himself.


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## Correll (Nov 25, 2021)

The "two witnesses" smell bad. "witnesses" don't follow along with you and then hand outside the person's house with you.

Your fellow motorcycle buddies do that.


Not stopping is not always "hit and run" because that is a tactic used by robbers to get people to stop their cars. 


The woman should have called 9-11 instead of going out of the house with her gun.


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## Otis Mayfield (Nov 25, 2021)

He'll probably get off because of self defense.

But I think he had other options. Other than killing her.


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## RetiredGySgt (Nov 25, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> He'll probably get off because of self defense.
> 
> But I think he had other options. Other than killing her.


Of course he did but he was JUSTIFIED in the option he chose. I don't see the problem you have other then firearms bad.


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## The Irish Ram (Nov 25, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> I would've got her plate and car and her with my phone camera.
> 
> I wouldn't have shot her. I would've put my hands up. Odds are a librarian isn't going to pull the trigger.


And did she tell them she was a librarian before she pointed her gun at them?  Do librarians often hit and run or was this librarian nuts? 
I wouldn't be asking for her credentials.  Point a gun at me and get shot before you can shoot first.  I'm funny about my life that way...


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## Coyote (Nov 25, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> A case of road rage in Central Florida left one of the motorists, a mother-to-be, dead last Saturday evening.
> 
> According to the Orange City Police Department, the incident began around 5 p.m. Nov. 20 when Sara Nicole Morales, 35, hit Andrew Derr’s motorcycle with her blue Kia. It is unclear why she hit his bike.
> 
> ...


Too damn many guns.


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## EvilCat Breath (Nov 25, 2021)

Looks like self defense.  She made the threat first.  Always know where the nearest police station is.  If you are threatened or followed go there.  Never go home.


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## Coyote (Nov 25, 2021)

Correll said:


> The "two witnesses" smell bad. "witnesses" don't follow along with you and then hand outside the person's house with you.
> 
> Your fellow motorcycle buddies do that.
> 
> ...


Given how he subsequently behaved, I suspect he and his buddies were probably pretty aggressive after she hit him.  As a woman, I can see how frightening it be to be followed home like, in fact I’d be freaked out.  I had something kind of similar happen.  I was driving in Pittsburgh, was lost, accidentally cut a guy off (no one got hit, no accident). He followed me, tried to cut me off several times, I kept driving until I found a place that other people around and pulled into the parking lot.  He came up next to me yelling and swearing at me.  I apologized and explained I was lost but he just kept on.  I left and he followed me.  It was absolutely freaky.


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## progressive hunter (Nov 25, 2021)

Coyote said:


> Too damn many guns.


no such thing,,


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## bodecea (Nov 25, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> A case of road rage in Central Florida left one of the motorists, a mother-to-be, dead last Saturday evening.
> 
> According to the Orange City Police Department, the incident began around 5 p.m. Nov. 20 when Sara Nicole Morales, 35, hit Andrew Derr’s motorcycle with her blue Kia. It is unclear why she hit his bike.
> 
> ...


If what the post says is the truth, it sounds like it.


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## bodecea (Nov 25, 2021)

Coyote said:


> Too damn many guns.


And yet, we're told we don't have enough.


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## Peace (Nov 25, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> A case of road rage in Central Florida left one of the motorists, a mother-to-be, dead last Saturday evening.
> 
> According to the Orange City Police Department, the incident began around 5 p.m. Nov. 20 when Sara Nicole Morales, 35, hit Andrew Derr’s motorcycle with her blue Kia. It is unclear why she hit his bike.
> 
> ...


Yes


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## bodecea (Nov 25, 2021)

progressive hunter said:


> no such thing,,


See?


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## Peace (Nov 25, 2021)

Coyote said:


> Given how he subsequently behaved, I suspect he and his buddies were probably pretty aggressive after she hit him.  As a woman, I can see how frightening it be to be followed home like, in fact I’d be freaked out.  I had something kind of similar happen.  I was driving in Pittsburgh, was lost, accidentally cut a guy off (no one got hit, no accident). He followed me, tried to cut me off several times, I kept driving until I found a place that other people around and pulled into the parking lot.  He came up next to me yelling and swearing at me.  I apologized and explained I was lost but he just kept on.  I left and he followed me.  It was absolutely freaky.


The issue is she came back out of her house and didn’t call the police and wait inside.

Sorry, but if the story is true she got herself killed by coming back out with a firearm and pointing it at the person…


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## Otis Mayfield (Nov 25, 2021)

Could you shoot this woman dead?

She was pointing her gun at about 150 people. Any one of them could've been armed.

The crowd was nice and didn't shoot her.


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## Correll (Nov 25, 2021)

Coyote said:


> Given how he subsequently behaved, I suspect he and his buddies were probably pretty aggressive after she hit him.  As a woman, I can see how frightening it be to be followed home like, in fact I’d be freaked out.  I had something kind of similar happen.  I was driving in Pittsburgh, was lost, accidentally cut a guy off (no one got hit, no accident). He followed me, tried to cut me off several times, I kept driving until I found a place that other people around and pulled into the parking lot.  He came up next to me yelling and swearing at me.  I apologized and explained I was lost but he just kept on.  I left and he followed me.  It was absolutely freaky.




Yeah, that is what this sounds like. It may be that by coming out with a gun in her hand, that she framed the situation such that the man can legally claim self defense. 


But, the fact that she had a gun in her hand and he was able to pull and fire multiple times, makes me think that the woman was just trying to run them off, and not prepared to actually fire. A fatal mistake on her part.


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## RetiredGySgt (Nov 25, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Could you shoot this woman dead?
> 
> She was pointing her gun at about 150 people. Any one of them could've been armed.
> 
> The crowd was nice and didn't shoot her.


If they had shot her since they started it and were on her property illegally it would have been NOT self defense.


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## surada (Nov 25, 2021)

Mad_Jack_Flint said:


> The issue is she came back out of her house and didn’t call the police and wait inside.
> 
> Sorry, but if the story is true she got herself killed by coming back out with a firearm and pointing it at the person…h



She was probably under the influence of this damned gunslinger mentality. So much for MAGA.









						Who Is Andrew Derr? Pregnant Florida Librarian Sara Nicole Morales' Killer -Age & Wiki
					

Learn About Who Is Andrew Derr? Pregnant Florida Librarian Sara Nicole Morales' Killer -Age & Wiki. Andrew Derr is a motorcyclist, Is He Arrested/Jail Sentence?




					heightzone.com


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## Otis Mayfield (Nov 25, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> If they had shot her since they started it and were on her property illegally it would have been NOT self defense.



They were standing on a road that wasn't her property. The road belonged to the gated community.


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## RetiredGySgt (Nov 25, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> They were standing on a road that wasn't her property. The road belonged to the gated community.


They were trespassing.


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## Peace (Nov 25, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Could you shoot this woman dead?
> 
> She was pointing her gun at about 150 people. Any one of them could've been armed.
> 
> The crowd was nice and didn't shoot her.


It is the choice of those being threatened…

You are trying to make it where the guy that shot the woman should have allowed her to point the firearm at him which she can not and cost her life.

What the guy did wrong:

1. Followed her.

2. Went to her home without Police.

What the woman did wrong:

1. Did a hit and run without exchanging information.

2. Came out of her home with the gun.

Note:

Had the guy illegally entered her home or came onto her property then he could be facing trespassing issues but what it sounds like he did neither or I missed that part.

Her coming out of the home with a firearm was stupid in her part and she should have called the police and reported a man stalking her and possible rape and then the man would have been taken into custody.

The woman most likely didn’t have insurance or could have been illegal to drive or something else and thought bringing a gun out was going to scare the man but it didn’t.

We need a lot more information about her and him but she is dead because of her stupidity.


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## Otis Mayfield (Nov 25, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> They were trespassing.



The gated community declined to press charges.


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## Peace (Nov 25, 2021)

surada said:


> She was probably under the influence of this damned gunslinger mentality. So much for MAGA.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It matter not if he is MAGA or not because she first left a scene of the accident, and then came out with a firearm, so she caused her own death.


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## RetiredGySgt (Nov 25, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> The gated community declined to press charges.


Doesnt matter at the time it was trespass further the mob was threatening the homeowners.


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## surada (Nov 25, 2021)

Mad_Jack_Flint said:


> It matter not if he is MAGA or not because she first left a scene of the accident, and then came out with a firearm, so she caused her own death.



Sadly, I agree. The men had called 911 to report a hit and run and they weren't on her property.


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## surada (Nov 25, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> They were trespassing.



No. They were not trespassing. They weren't on her property. They were waiting for the police.

This is what happens when people are so effed up and excitable they lose their damned minds.


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## Peace (Nov 25, 2021)

surada said:


> Sadly, I agree. The men had called 911 to report a hit and run and they weren't on her property.


This is why everyone need to be careful with what they do in life…

I have been in three car accidents in the last ten years and two were my fault…

The two I was the cause of I got out of my car or truck and apologized for my mistake, offered the information needed and called my insurance company claiming full at fault…

The one that I was the victim the guy was crying and shaken up, and I told him shit happens…

How we act and react make things better or could get you killed…

She had a duty to give the information even if he was being a belligerent asshole…

Now what she should have done is what Tipsycatlover wrote and she should have drove to the nearest police station, requested help and let the police write the citations that were needed.

Seeing she didn’t and thought she had the right to bring a gun out to a man that was not illegal on her property or breaking into her home, well you read it before she caused her own death…


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## RetiredGySgt (Nov 25, 2021)

surada said:


> No. They were not trespassing. They weren't on her property. They were waiting for the police.
> 
> This is what happens when people are so effed up and excitable they lose their damned minds.


Pay attention MORON I was talking about the ST Louis couple and the mob as evidence by my REPLYING to that post.


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## Confederate Soldier (Nov 25, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> I would've got her plate and car and her with my phone camera.
> 
> I wouldn't have shot her. I would've put my hands up. Odds are a librarian isn't going to pull the trigger.


You assume too much.

You assume that the man had time to pull out a cellphone, and or even have the mental clarity to do such after he just got hit.

You also assume that the guy knew she was a librarian and pregnant. How in the hell was he supposed to know she was a librarian?


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 25, 2021)

surada said:


> No. They were not trespassing. They weren't on her property. They were waiting for the police.
> 
> This is what happens when people are so effed up and excitable they lose their damned minds.


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## Peace (Nov 25, 2021)

Confederate Soldier said:


> You assume too much.
> 
> You assume that the man had time to pull out a cellphone, and or even have the mental clarity to do such after he just got hit.
> 
> You also assume that the guy knew she was a librarian and pregnant. How in the hell was he supposed to know she was a librarian?


The shooting happened at her home at not where the accident took place.


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## Confederate Soldier (Nov 25, 2021)

Mad_Jack_Flint said:


> The shooting happened at her home at not where the accident took place.




Yes, but she ran away from the scene of a crime. She is not guitless.


The question the OP was asking was, "was it self defense?". When a woman pulls out a firearm and brandishes it at someone, it gives that other person the right to use deadly force, aka self defense. 


I'll guess we'll just have to wait and see what a jury says.


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## Peace (Nov 25, 2021)

Confederate Soldier said:


> Yes, but she ran away from the scene of a crime. She is not guitless.
> 
> 
> The question the OP was asking was, "was it self defense?". When a woman pulls out a firearm and brandishes it at someone, it gives that other person the right to use deadly force, aka self defense.
> ...



If you read what I wrote to surada then you would know I believe she caused her own death.

It is clear self defense as the evidence shows unless I am missing something…


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## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 25, 2021)

Correll said:


> The "two witnesses" smell bad. "witnesses" don't follow along with you and then hand outside the person's house with you.
> 
> Your fellow motorcycle buddies do that.
> 
> ...



  She hit him and ran numbskull. How in the hell does that fit your robbery fantasy?


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## Donald H (Nov 25, 2021)

It's not likely to have happened that way in Canada. The motorcycle rider would have got her plate number and failing that would have directed the police to her address.

And with certainty there would be guilt attached to the killer. Most likely more than just manslaughter because of then hunting the woman down.

And there would be nobody dead from another gun killing.


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## Peace (Nov 25, 2021)

Donald H said:


> It's not likely to have happened that way in Canada. The motorcycle rider would have got her plate number and failing that would have directed the police to her address.
> 
> And with certainty there would be guilt attached to the killer. Most likely more than just manslaughter because of then hunting the woman down.
> 
> And there would be nobody dead from another gun killing.


The person did not hunt her down and shot her, so you either missed the part she came out with a gun, pointed it at him and he shot her because of it…


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## Donald H (Nov 25, 2021)

Mad_Jack_Flint said:


> The person did not hunt her down and shot her, so you either missed the part she came out with a gun, pointed it at him and he shot her because of it…


Her legal representative on the prosecution will surely claim that they were hunting her down. It should have never escalated past calling the police.

I'm only telling you people how the law would handle this case in Canada and I realize America needs traffic accidents to end in death by gun. We have nothing to debate.

This is likely the first of many when or if it goes unpunished.


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## bodecea (Nov 25, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Could you shoot this woman dead?
> 
> She was pointing her gun at about 150 people. Any one of them could've been armed.
> 
> The crowd was nice and didn't shoot her.


Yes, she was very lucky.    And then, of course, the Right makes her out to be some kind of "hero".


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## bodecea (Nov 25, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> If they had shot her since they started it and were on her property illegally it would have been NOT self defense.


THey were not on her property.....they were never on her property.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 25, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> If they had shot her since they started it and were on her property illegally it would have been NOT self defense.


   The guy on the Bike didnt start it. She did when she pulled a hit and run.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Nov 25, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Morales re-emerged a short time later with a firearm and pointed it at them, continues the post.


If you’re going point a gun at someone, be prepared to pull the trigger – otherwise you’ll end up dead, as in this case.


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## surada (Nov 25, 2021)

bodecea said:


> THey were not on her property.....they were never on her property.



That's correct. She should have stopped, gotten out of her car, asked if there was any damage and acted civilized.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Nov 25, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> I would've got her plate and car and her with my phone camera.


Correct – and not follow her.

Just give the tag number and other information to the police and let them deal with it.

Another needless, easily avoidable death.


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## Tommy Tainant (Nov 25, 2021)

It isnt self-defence in any way. He and his mates followed her home. She must have been terrified.
He had plenty of options and just wanted to use his gun.

He should go to jail .


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## Peace (Nov 25, 2021)

Donald H said:


> Her legal representative on the prosecution will surely claim that they were hunting her down. It should have never escalated past calling the police.
> 
> I'm only telling you people how the law would handle this case in Canada and I realize America needs traffic accidents to end in death by gun. We have nothing to debate.
> 
> This is likely the first of many when or if it goes unpunished.


Oh kiss my ass on your nonsense!

The woman was in the wrong for fleeing the scene and pulling a gun and you made the claim they were hunting her when the evidence shows she drew a firearm first…

If you hate America so much then why are you on a board for American Politics?

So let be clear you have no evidence that they ( the motorcyclist or the other people ) Hunted her down with the intent to kill her but her intent was to flee a crime which she caused and when she could run any further she pulled a firearm and got killed…

As another poster stated she could have went to the police, but instead took the law into her own hands which ended up with her death…


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## Donald H (Nov 25, 2021)

Mad_Jack_Flint said:


> Oh kiss my ass on your nonsense!
> 
> The woman was in the wrong for fleeing the scene and pulling a gun and you made the claim they were hunting her when the evidence shows she drew a firearm first…
> 
> ...


I've only told you people how it would have happened different in Canada.

And I should have also mentioned that the woman did the right thing by leaving the scene. She would have been very afraid of the biker becoming violent.

There's a precedent of that being expected now after all the recent street murders.

And I didn't say it was wrong for America. I stuck to comments as if it happened in Canada.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 25, 2021)

Another IDIOT gets herself killed.  And here go the bleeding hearts wanting to frag the people who's only intent was to follow a criminal action and ensure she gets arrested.

She was an idiot to hit and run.  She was an idiot not to flee to the police....which is laughable........and she shouldn't have run out with a gun and point it at people on a public road.

She got the Darwin award.  It's that simple.  Self Defense.


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## Peace (Nov 25, 2021)

eagle1462010 said:


> Another IDIOT gets herself killed.  And here go the bleeding hearts wanting to frag the people who's only intent was to follow a criminal action and ensure she gets arrested.
> 
> She was an idiot to hit and run.  She was an idiot not to flee to the police....which is laughable........and she shouldn't have run out with a gun and point it at people on a public road.
> 
> She got the Darwin award.  It's that simple.  Self Defense.


So let me put it down so the left can understand what she did wrong:

1. Hit and Run and failed to exchange information.

2. Did not call the police ( the guy did ).

3. Came out with a firearm and pointed at the guy and got shot…

Does anyone disagree with what she did wrong or are we in agreement she could have done things much differently…


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## Donald H (Nov 25, 2021)

Ironically, she was a homeowner defending her own property with a gun, and she didn't shoot first.

This is in tune with what happens to home owners who pull out a gun to defend their family or property. 

Was the shooter on her property?


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## Donald H (Nov 25, 2021)

Mad_Jack_Flint said:


> So let me put it down so the left can understand what she did wrong:
> 
> 1. Hit and Run and failed to exchange information.
> 
> ...


Yes, of course there's lots of room to say that she did nothing wrong. I've written the counterspin to your spin above, in which the home owner pulls a gun to defend her family and property.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 25, 2021)

Donald H said:


> Ironically, she was a homeowner defending her own property with a gun, and she didn't shoot first.
> 
> This is in tune with what happens to home owners who pull out a gun to defend their family or property.
> 
> Was the shooter on her property?


This is what happens to people who are off their rockers and hit someone and run.  

She was the aggressor PERIOD.  She violated the law PERIOD.........She pointed first and that was the last mistake in her life.


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## Donald H (Nov 25, 2021)

eagle1462010 said:


> This is what happens to people who are off their rockers and hit someone and run.
> 
> She was the aggressor PERIOD.  She violated the law PERIOD.........She pointed first and that was the last mistake in her life.


She left the scene of the accident because she feared for her life eagle. America has now created this sort of scenario. And if the shooter stepped onto her property??
There are no PERIODS about it!

Smells a lot like premeditated murder by a biker.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 25, 2021)

Donald H said:


> She left the scene of the accident because she feared for her life eagle. America has now created this sort of scenario. And if the shooter stepped onto her property??
> There are no PERIODS about it!


Who exactly threatened her at the scene.  hmmm

What proof.  She could have locked the doors and waited for police.  She could have locked the doors at her house and waited for police.

She initiated contact at her house.  She got herself killed.


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## Donald H (Nov 25, 2021)

The nest question to ask is did the biker pull out his gun at the scene of the accident in order to stage a citizen's arrest?


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## RetiredGySgt (Nov 25, 2021)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> The guy on the Bike didnt start it. She did when she pulled a hit and run.


God DO NONE OF YOU READ THE DAMN THREAD? I replied to another comment about St Louis which is PLAIN to follow if you BOTHERED to ACTUALLY READ the thread.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 25, 2021)

Police: Pregnant librarian killed in alleged road rage shooting was aggressor
					

A pregnant Volusia County librarian was killed in an alleged road rage incident in Orange City over the weekend. However, investigators have identified the victim as the aggressor.




					www.fox35orlando.com


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## Donald H (Nov 25, 2021)

eagle1462010 said:


> Who exactly threatened her at the scene.  hmmm
> 
> What proof.  She could have locked the doors and waited for police.  She could have locked the doors at her house and waited for police.
> 
> She initiated contact at her house.  She got herself killed.


All of them could have done a lot of things differently. 

I'm not saying my version is right but I sure as hell don't accept your version either. Especially when a biker gang could have been involved.

And too, she may have been aware of them packing heat. Or been purposely made aware to frighten her. They chased her down and murdered her while she was in the act of defending her property. *Standing on her property! *


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 25, 2021)

Donald H said:


> All of them could have done a lot of things differently.
> 
> I'm not saying my version is right but I sure as hell don't accept your version either. Especially when a biker gang could have been involved.
> 
> And too, she may have been aware of them packing heat. Or been purposely made aware to frighten her. They chased her down and murdered her while she was in the act of defending her property. *Standing on her property! *


The police disagree with you.  They call her the aggressor.


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## RetiredGySgt (Nov 25, 2021)

Donald H said:


> Ironically, she was a homeowner defending her own property with a gun, and she didn't shoot first.
> 
> This is in tune with what happens to home owners who pull out a gun to defend their family or property.
> 
> Was the shooter on her property?


NO again if people BOTHERED to read the thread you would KNOW THAT.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 25, 2021)

Tommy Tainant said:


> It isnt self-defence in any way. He and his mates followed her home. She must have been terrified.
> He had plenty of options and just wanted to use his gun.
> 
> He should go to jail .



  She ran from a crash that was her fault and went home only to come out with a gun in her hand.
Stupid move on her part,she should have called the cops but she didnt because she had just committed a crime.
 She could have called the cops while driving,but she didnt,she could have called the cops when she got home but didnt. 
     That screams guilty.


----------



## Donald H (Nov 25, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> NO again if people BOTHERED to read the thread you would KNOW THAT.


Yeah, the official story says the road way but it's very unlikely she wouldn't have gone out on the road way against two bikers. 
And where the bider were is of much less importance.

I bet she was murdered on her property while defending her property and this is about the police siding with murderers because of the hard-on they still have for the Chauvin verdict. Along with the justification they've just got from the Rittenhouse verdict.

Consider the possibiilties retired.


----------



## Donald H (Nov 25, 2021)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> She ran from a crash that was her fault and went home only to come out with a gun in her hand.
> Stupid move on her part,she should have called the cops but she didnt because she had just committed a crime.
> She could have called the cops while driving,but she didnt,she could have called the cops when she got home but didnt.
> That screams guilty.


It's always stupid when a homeowner tries to defend her property with a gun.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 25, 2021)

Donald H said:


> I've only told you people how it would have happened different in Canada.
> 
> And I should have also mentioned that the woman did the right thing by leaving the scene. She would have been very afraid of the biker becoming violent.
> 
> ...



  We dont give a fuck about Canaduh.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Nov 25, 2021)

Donald H said:


> Yeah, the official story says the road way but it's very unlikely she wouldn't have gone out on the road way against two bikers.
> And where the bider were is of much less importance.
> 
> I bet she was murdered on her property while defending her property and this is about the police siding with murderers because of the hard-on they still have for the Chauvin verdict. Along with the justification they've just got from the Rittenhouse verdict.
> ...


Good GOD conspiracy Much?


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 25, 2021)

Donald H said:


> It's always stupid when a homeowner tries to defend her property with a gun.



  It's always stupid to commit a crime and run.
Why didnt she call the cops? She had plenty of time to do so.


----------



## Donald H (Nov 25, 2021)

eagle1462010 said:


> The police disagree with you.  They call her the aggressor.


That's to be expected from now on as long as the shooter isn't a black person. 

My argument with you isn't applicable. I only started out to point out the different circumstances in other countries.


----------



## Donald H (Nov 25, 2021)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> It's always stupid to commit a crime and run.
> Why didnt she call the cops? She had plenty of time to do so.


People don't stand around calling the cops when the lead is flying past their head. They head for the safety of their own homes.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Nov 25, 2021)

Donald H said:


> That's to be expected from now on as long as the shooter isn't a black person.
> 
> My argument with you isn't applicable. I only started out to point out the different circumstances in other countries.


Yawn.  I don't care if E.T shot her.  She fled a crime she committed.  She could have stayed in that house.  She didn't.  She must be a natural blond in reality.  Because what she did was stupid.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 25, 2021)

Donald H said:


> That's to be expected from now on as long as the shooter isn't a black person.
> 
> My argument with you isn't applicable. I only started out to point out the different circumstances in other countries.



   What a surprise.
You pulled the race card.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Nov 25, 2021)

Donald H said:


> People don't stand around calling the cops when the lead is flying past their head. They head for the safety of their own homes.


Now you are being even more retarded.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 25, 2021)

Donald H said:


> People don't stand around calling the cops when the lead is flying past their head. They head for the safety of their own homes.



   Uh...there was no lead flying till she pulled a gun out dumbshit.
Again,she could have called on the way home or when she got home.


----------



## Donald H (Nov 25, 2021)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> What a surprise.
> You pulled the race card.


I've been reminded hundreds of times by Americans that in shooting, race is inevitably involved. 

Maybe if white extremists didn't go trolling for a response to their racist comments??


----------



## Donald H (Nov 25, 2021)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Uh...there was no lead flying till she pulled a gun out dumbshit.
> Again,she could have called on the way home or when she got home.


Yes, she coulda........


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 25, 2021)

Donald H said:


> I've been reminded hundreds of times by Americans that in shooting, race is inevitably involved.
> 
> Maybe if white extremists didn't go trolling for a response to their racist comments??



  Now you're just making shit up to cover for your stupidity.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Nov 25, 2021)

Donald H said:


> Yes, she coulda........


Keep proving just how amazingly retarded you really are.


----------



## westwall (Nov 25, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> A case of road rage in Central Florida left one of the motorists, a mother-to-be, dead last Saturday evening.
> 
> According to the Orange City Police Department, the incident began around 5 p.m. Nov. 20 when Sara Nicole Morales, 35, hit Andrew Derr’s motorcycle with her blue Kia. It is unclear why she hit his bike.
> 
> ...





Based on the facts as presented, yes.  But those facts would need to be verified.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 25, 2021)

Donald H said:


> Yes, she coulda........



   Why not?
If she was terrified that would have been her first move.


----------



## westwall (Nov 25, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> I would've got her plate and car and her with my phone camera.
> 
> I wouldn't have shot her. I would've put my hands up. Odds are a librarian isn't going to pull the trigger.





She just tried to run him over so you think wrong.


----------



## Donald H (Nov 25, 2021)

I'm outta here now that the pro-gun crowd are starting to get abusive with their namecalling.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Nov 25, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> A case of road rage in Central Florida left one of the motorists, a mother-to-be, dead last Saturday evening.
> 
> According to the Orange City Police Department, the incident began around 5 p.m. Nov. 20 when Sara Nicole Morales, 35, hit Andrew Derr’s motorcycle with her blue Kia. It is unclear why she hit his bike.
> 
> ...


Is someone obsessed?


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 25, 2021)

Donald H said:


> I'm outta here now that the pro-gun crowd are starting to get abusive with their namecalling.



  You mean once you started to get your ass handed to you.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Nov 25, 2021)

Donald H said:


> I'm outta here now that the pro-gun crowd are starting to get abusive with their namecalling.


----------



## Otis Mayfield (Nov 25, 2021)

Well, I'll try to follow this case and post updates. Probably be a couple of months before the verdict is in.

I wouldn't be surprised if the guy walks.


----------



## ThisIsMe (Nov 25, 2021)

I say no, not self defense. The article says the contact between the car and the bike was minor. It's possible that the woman didn't even know she hit the bike. Then, as the article says that the guy on the bike starts to follow her and trying to get her to pull over.  From her point of view, it could be a guy on a motorcycle racing up beside her and yelling at her.  She may not know what he's up to, if  she didn't know she even hit his bike. 

Then this "crazy guy on a motorcycle" shows up outside her home.  She gets scared and gets her gun. 

I don't know....if I see someone screaming at me on the road and shows up at my house...I'm probably looking at protection too...

Maybe she should have locked the doors and called the police, maybe she lived alone with her daughter and didn't think the police would get there in time before this crazy guy broke the door down. Maybe her intent was to get him to leave by showing him she had a gun.

Just my opinion,  even though she can't tell it, she has a point of view too.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 25, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> A case of road rage in Central Florida left one of the motorists, a mother-to-be, dead last Saturday evening.
> 
> According to the Orange City Police Department, the incident began around 5 p.m. Nov. 20 when Sara Nicole Morales, 35, hit Andrew Derr’s motorcycle with her blue Kia. It is unclear why she hit his bike.
> 
> ...




Yes.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 25, 2021)

Coyote said:


> Too damn many guns.




No....too many criminals......

Criminals kill 10,258 people in 2019....70-80% of the victims are criminals, not normal people...this sort of shooting is so rare that it is silly for you fascists to attempt to use it as a reason for gun control.....

Meanwhile.....the democrat party releases...over and over again, known, violent actual criminals who can't legally buy, own or carry guns....and it is these criminals who do almost all of the gun murder in this country..

We don't need gun control...we need the democrat party to stop releasing criminals.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 25, 2021)

ThisIsMe said:


> I say no, not self defense. The article says the contact between the car and the bike was minor. It's possible that the woman didn't even know she hit the bike. Then, as the article says that the guy on the bike starts to follow her and trying to get her to pull over.  From her point of view, it could be a guy on a motorcycle racing up beside her and yelling at her.  She may not know what he's up to, if  she didn't know she even hit his bike.
> 
> Then this "crazy guy on a motorcycle" shows up outside her home.  She gets scared and gets her gun.
> 
> ...




Why didn't she stay in her house and call the police?

Her mistake was leaving the house and pointing the gun.....it was a bad mistake on her part........but self defense on his part.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 25, 2021)

Donald H said:


> Her legal representative on the prosecution will surely claim that they were hunting her down. It should have never escalated past calling the police.
> 
> I'm only telling you people how the law would handle this case in Canada and I realize America needs traffic accidents to end in death by gun. We have nothing to debate.
> 
> This is likely the first of many when or if it goes unpunished.




Yeah....except when it doesn't happen that way in Canada...

*Nobody was injured after a shooting in a suspected road rage incident in North York Saturday afternoon, police say*
*




Toronto police said they were called to the area of Lawrence Avenue and The Bridle Path at 2:45 p.m. for a shooting.


Two individuals got into an argument while in their respective cars, investigators say, when one of the individuals fired shots from their vehicle into the rear of the other.
*
*They said there were two young children in the car that was shot: a 12-year-old and a two -year-old.*









						Two children unharmed after shots fired in suspected Bridle Path road rage incident, police say - Toronto | Globalnews.ca
					

Toronto police said they were called to the area of Lawrence Avenue and The Bridle Path at 2:45 p.m. for a shooting.




					globalnews.ca
				




Consider the following:

*April 18, 2021** : In Walkerville, Ontario, Windsor police arrest a man after a road rage incident led to him pulling a gun on another driver around 6 pm. The 34-year-old was charged with among other things, pointing a firearm, threatening to use a weapon, possession of a handgun for a purpose dangerous to public peace.
---*
_*March 8, 2021*__* : “ Waterloo regional police say a man allegedly brandished a gun during a road rage incident in Woolwich Township .” An individual was subsequently charged with possessing two loaded handguns, ammunition, and two long guns. A 45-year-old man was charged with multiple firearm and criminal code offences. This happened at 10:30 in the morning.

July 11, 2020 : “ At least one bullet was fired in what Barrie Police describe as an act of road rage.” The bullet hit the trunk of a vehicle. This happened at 9 pm at the height of the summer season. 
*_
*May 11, 2019 : In 22 years on the job, the attending police officer had seen nothing like it. “A shooting on the roadway, the victim and suspect not known to each other.” What happened? “ On a sunny spring afternoon earlier this year, a young man was driving down a residential street in London, Ontario, when a car pulled up beside him at a stop sign. The driver, a complete stranger, pulled out a gun and shot him in the face, police say.” The victim, 21, had a bruised cheek, shattered teeth, and two fractured vertebrae. Before the attack, the victim said he encountered a 2014 white Chevrolet Cruz “driving fast, erratically and aggressively,” police said. In response, the young man made a gesture – he held up his middle finger according to local media reports – and kept driving. That’s when police say the Cruze pulled alongside his car, and the driver fired the shot.”*









						Road rage is bad enough, but things are escalating
					

National survey shows big problems in Ontario




					driving.ca


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 25, 2021)

Tommy Tainant said:


> It isnt self-defence in any way. He and his mates followed her home. She must have been terrified.
> He had plenty of options and just wanted to use his gun.
> 
> He should go to jail .



Shit head....she should have simply stayed in her house and called the police herself.....you moron.......

She walked out and pointed a gun at him....you doofus....


----------



## ThisIsMe (Nov 25, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Why didn't she stay in her house and call the police?
> 
> Her mistake was leaving the house and pointing the gun.....it was a bad mistake on her part........but self defense on his part.


Again, perhaps she felt like he could have kicked in the door before the police got there. It's possible she never intended to shoot but to scare them. 

I just don't get how you can follow someone to their house like that, and then shoot them because they pointed a gun, then call it self defense.  They shouldn't have gone to her house.  Again, and I'm just assuming here because I don't know, but, if she had no idea she hit their bike, then to her, its some angry guy on a motorcycle following her to her house. She has no ide what his intentions are, and if he has a gun.

I just don't think this is an open and shut case. It's going to be a hard case to try because there is nobody who can tell her side of the story, there is only his side, and he's the one who shot her.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 25, 2021)

ThisIsMe said:


> Again, perhaps she felt like he could have kicked in the door before the police got there. It's possible she never intended to shoot but to scare them.
> 
> I just don't get how you can follow someone to their house like that, and then shoot them because they pointed a gun, then call it self defense.  They shouldn't have gone to her house.  Again, and I'm just assuming here because I don't know, but, if she had no idea she hit their bike, then to her, its some angry guy on a motorcycle following her to her house. She has no ide what his intentions are, and if he has a gun.
> 
> I just don't think this is an open and shut case. It's going to be a hard case to try because there is nobody who can tell her side of the story, there is only his side, and he's the one who shot her.




If they didn't set foot on her property, she had no cause to point a gun at them...especially since she was already in her home...a much safer place to be instead of exposing herself by walking outside......

This was self defense in response to a bad mistake made by the woman.


----------



## ThisIsMe (Nov 25, 2021)

2aguy said:


> If they didn't set foot on her property, she had no cause to point a gun at them...especially since she was already in her home...a much safer place to be instead of exposing herself by walking outside......
> 
> This was self defense in response to a bad mistake made by the woman.


I guess I can see that, granted, we don't know the story from her perspective. Again, was she scared that these people (because we know from the article that it was more than just Derr, but a couple of people showed up at her house).

So, if you have 2 or 3 people screaming at you on the road, and they follow her home, and from the looks of the body cam footage, she doesn't exactly live in the city. Looks to be a rural area.  In her eyes, police could have taken too long to get there if these guys intend to harm her. 

The tweet from the investigator says she intentionally hit his bike. Well, OK, there's that. Again, she can't tell her story. Also, in the body cam footage, it's just derr at the scene. The other 2 witnesses left.  Why?  Why are witnesses going to leave the scene of the shooting. 

Again, it's going to be a hard case to go through court. Looking at the footage of the body cam, she has a pretty big front yard, it's entirely possible that derr WAS approaching her house, and ON her property when she came outside with a gun. 

How do you try this in court?  If the other witnesses left before the shooting, then its only his word, if they were there when the shooting happened, then why did they leave?  Did derr know the witnesses?  If not, unless there is a street camera, we may never know who they were and what they have to tell.

You are not wrong, I'm just saying that there is more here than needs to be told, and we only get one side. 

Those witnesses will need to be found, and an investigation need to be completed.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 25, 2021)

ThisIsMe said:


> I guess I can see that, granted, we don't know the story from her perspective. Again, was she scared that these people (because we know from the article that it was more than just Derr, but a couple of people showed up at her house).
> 
> So, if you have 2 or 3 people screaming at you on the road, and they follow her home, and from the looks of the body cam footage, she doesn't exactly live in the city. Looks to be a rural area.  In her eyes, police could have taken too long to get there if these guys intend to harm her.
> 
> ...




If he was on her property and approaching the house, then it wasn't really self defense...but all we have is that they were waiting for the police when she came out of her home and pointed a gun at them.....from those facts, if they are facts, she was in the wrong.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 25, 2021)

ThisIsMe said:


> Again, perhaps she felt like he could have kicked in the door before the police got there. It's possible she never intended to shoot but to scare them.
> 
> I just don't get how you can follow someone to their house like that, and then shoot them because they pointed a gun, then call it self defense.  They shouldn't have gone to her house.  Again, and I'm just assuming here because I don't know, but, if she had no idea she hit their bike, then to her, its some angry guy on a motorcycle following her to her house. She has no ide what his intentions are, and if he has a gun.
> 
> I just don't think this is an open and shut case. It's going to be a hard case to try because there is nobody who can tell her side of the story, there is only his side, and he's the one who shot her.



  Why didnt she call the cops from her vehicle?
Or since she had a gun wait inside with it and call the cops.
    That she went out and confronted them with a gun was pure stupidity.


----------



## Otis Mayfield (Nov 25, 2021)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Why didnt she call the cops from her vehicle?
> Or since she had a gun wait inside with it and call the cops.
> That she went out and confronted them with a gun was pure stupidity.



All good questions.

She might've been at fault and she fled the scene.

The biker guys might've scared her and she didn't want to talk to them.

Who knows?


----------



## ThisIsMe (Nov 25, 2021)

2aguy said:


> If he was on her property and approaching the house, then it wasn't really self defense...but all we have is that they were waiting for the police when she came out of her home and pointed a gun at them.....from those facts, if they are facts, she was in the wrong.


I'll agree with that. I still say it's going to be a hard case for court if those other witnesses can't be found, or if they had left before the shooting.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 25, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> All good questions.
> 
> She might've been at fault and she fled the scene.
> 
> ...



  What we do know is he called the cops and she didnt.
Why didnt she? Maybe because she knew she'd committed a crime?


----------



## ThisIsMe (Nov 25, 2021)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Why didnt she call the cops from her vehicle?
> Or since she had a gun wait inside with it and call the cops.
> That she went out and confronted them with a gun was pure stupidity.


Good questions and we will have to wait. It's just not a good situation because, right now, we only have his word.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 25, 2021)

ThisIsMe said:


> Good questions and we will have to wait. It's just not a good situation because, right now, we only have his word.



  Well she obviously came out of the house with a gun.


----------



## Otis Mayfield (Nov 25, 2021)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Well she obviously came out of the house with a gun.



Would you have shot her dead?

I don't think I would've. I would've put my hands up and told her that I'm calling the cops.


----------



## Peace (Nov 25, 2021)

Tommy Tainant said:


> It isnt self-defence in any way. He and his mates followed her home. She must have been terrified.
> He had plenty of options and just wanted to use his gun.
> 
> He should go to jail .


Incorrect, she had every opportunity to deal with the issue in the correct manner but at the end she brought a gun out and got killed.

She left the scene of a accident without giving any information.

She did not call the police while at the accident, driving home or when she got home.

She came out with the gun and pointed it at the other person and was shot dead.

You can not do all she did without something happening and she broke so many laws that she would have been arrested had she not been killed…


----------



## Peace (Nov 25, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Would you have shot her dead?
> 
> I don't think I would've. I would've put my hands up and told her that I'm calling the cops.


How would you call the cops with your hands in the air and her pointing a firearm at you?

She was clearly in the wrong and you want to blame the guy for her deadly mistake…

Don’t point a firearm unless you are willing to fire and kill…


----------



## Man of Ethics (Nov 26, 2021)

RIP.  Very sad story for everyone involved.


----------



## ESay (Nov 26, 2021)

This whole situation would look ridiculous hadn't it caused death. It seems this incident started when lane changing went wrong. Some of them didn't want to lower speed a bit and give a way to the other.

This minor incident resulted in death of a woman, her unborn baby, and made a child grow without mother. 

It is far not the first time when I read about minor road incidents cause bad consequences. I wonder when people realize they are humans, not a bunch of apes.


----------



## Mac-7 (Nov 26, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Self defense?


Based on the information you have given us so far - yes


----------



## Whodatsaywhodat. (Nov 26, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> I would've got her plate and car and her with my phone camera.
> 
> I wouldn't have shot her. I would've put my hands up. Odds are a librarian isn't going to pull the trigger.


Odds are your a idiot.


----------



## Batcat (Nov 26, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> You all are some stone-cold killers.
> 
> Why not just let her go?


If some one points a gun at me the next thing they may do is pull the trigger. 

I have had firearms pointed at me several time in my life but I was never armed. You do tend to remember such incidents. When a gun is pointed at you the hole in the barrel looks ENORMOUS. I became very polite. 

If someone were to draw down on me when I am armed I would likely fear for my life or health and move to cover (if possible) while drawing my own weapon. If they haven’t started shooting at me at that point I might try to convince them to lower their weapon (especially if I made it behind cover). If they struck me as extremely angry, insane or high on drugs I might shoot first.


----------



## ESay (Nov 26, 2021)

Batcat said:


> If someone were to draw down on me when I am armed I would likely fear for my life or health and move to cover (if possible) while drawing my own weapon. If they haven’t started shooting at me at that point I might try to convince them to lower their weapon (especially if I made it behind cover). If they struck me as extremely angry, insane or high on drugs I might shoot first


Neither of that happened it seems. I think the guy just draw his gun and shot at her while she didn't manage to pull the trigger (maybe because she never intended to do).


----------



## gtopa1 (Nov 26, 2021)

JGalt said:


> So he knew she was a librarian?
> 
> She was the aggressor, and then she then took off. They followed her and then she retrieved a gun and pointed it at them
> 
> She chose bad choices.


Hmmmm........followed like the guy jogging was followed. Then he shot her when she was on her own property. She was armed...there's that. 

Was she library profiled??? Did he have an overdue book???????

Hmmm; leave it up to a court.

Greg


----------



## gtopa1 (Nov 26, 2021)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> What we do know is he called the cops and she didnt.
> Why didnt she? Maybe because she knew she'd committed a crime?


Morales also called 911, telling a dispatcher she was being threatened by aggressive men. 

'You’re three men. You followed me. Leave me alone,' Morales is heard screaming on the call that was released by the authorities.









						Pregnant librarian shot dead after she 'intentionally' rammed a biker
					

Sara-Nicole Morales, 35, a pregnant mom-of-one librarian from Florida, was shot dead after a road rage incident in which police say she intentionally struck Andrew Derr's motorcycle and fled.




					www.dailymail.co.uk
				




Greg


----------



## gtopa1 (Nov 26, 2021)

Donald H said:


> Yes, she coulda........


Yes; she did.

Greg


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Nov 26, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> A case of road rage in Central Florida left one of the motorists, a mother-to-be, dead last Saturday evening.
> 
> According to the Orange City Police Department, the incident began around 5 p.m. Nov. 20 when Sara Nicole Morales, 35, hit Andrew Derr’s motorcycle with her blue Kia. It is unclear why she hit his bike.
> 
> ...



  Article is hidden behind a paywall, and therefore can be safely assumed to be mostly bullshit.

  Anyone have anything on this story from a credible site?

  Anyway, what jumps out at me in the part quoted here is that after the collision, the biker and some _“witnesses”_ followed Mrs. Morales to her home.

  The scenario that my mind is painting is that this woman found herself in the midst of a gang of apparently-hostile bikers, and fled the scene because at that point, she was already in fear of her safety.  Her fears would certainly not have been lessened when this gang of bikers pursued her to her home.

  I'd have to know more about the story to make a solid judgement, but my instinct from what is available here to me is that any claim of self-defense on Mr. Derr's part is at least partly negated by the fact that he followed Mrs. Morales to her home, and gave her good reason to believe he and his fellow gangsters were a threat to her safety and that of her family.  If she had fired first, and killed Mr. Derr, I'd be a lot more sympathetic to any claim that she acted in self-defense, than to the claim that he acted in self-defense when he shot her.

  It does sound like there was some very bad judgement exercised on both sides.


----------



## Turtlesoup (Nov 26, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> A case of road rage in Central Florida left one of the motorists, a mother-to-be, dead last Saturday evening.
> 
> According to the Orange City Police Department, the incident began around 5 p.m. Nov. 20 when Sara Nicole Morales, 35, hit Andrew Derr’s motorcycle with her blue Kia. It is unclear why she hit his bike.
> 
> ...


Oh stop she was a librarian assistant---unmarried.

My guess---she was drunk and was an aggressive drunk...and yet you want to try political games.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Nov 26, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> I wouldn't have shot her. I would've put my hands up. Odds are a librarian isn't going to pull the trigger.



  Follow a pregnant woman (whose instincts to protect her family will be in high-gear due to the hormones involved) to her home, and give her reason to think you mean her harm; if she has a family there, and if she has a weapon there, my bet would be on her using that weapon.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Nov 26, 2021)

Tipsycatlover said:


> Looks like self defense.  She made the threat first.  Always know where the nearest police station is.  If you are threatened or followed go there.  Never go home.



  She didn't chase them to their homes.


----------



## Turtlesoup (Nov 26, 2021)

Bob Blaylock said:


> Article is hidden behind a paywall, and therefore can be safely assumed to be mostly bullshit.
> 
> Anyone have anything on this story from a credible site?
> 
> ...


I think that she was drunk BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT...several years ago before my husband I moved to florida we were driving on the hwy from Orlando to west side of Florida----a bunch of asshole motorcyclists came speeding up behind us and other vehicles and were doing their stunts (this was around the same time up north had such an incident that led to the driver shooting or running over the motorcyclists)-- one of the assholes got in front of our vehicle and slam on his breaks as others did much the same to other drivers.  We barely missed hitting the idiot.    He's lucky my husband was driving, I would have likely run him over accidently.   It is possible that this guy and his buddies were playing this same game and got hit.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Nov 26, 2021)

Extraordinary.  For once, I find myself completely agreeing with Coyote.  That never happens.

  Am I really the only man participating in this thread who understands how scary the situation described here would be to a woman, and how a woman would be likely to react to it?

  If it was my wife, in the identical situation, that biker and his _“witnesses”_ would almost certainly have all wound up dead.




Coyote said:


> Given how he subsequently behaved, I suspect he and his buddies were probably pretty aggressive after she hit him.  As a woman, I can see how frightening it be to be followed home like, in fact I’d be freaked out.  I had something kind of similar happen.  I was driving in Pittsburgh, was lost, accidentally cut a guy off (no one got hit, no accident). He followed me, tried to cut me off several times, I kept driving until I found a place that other people around and pulled into the parking lot.  He came up next to me yelling and swearing at me.  I apologized and explained I was lost but he just kept on.  I left and he followed me.  It was absolutely freaky.


----------



## Turtlesoup (Nov 26, 2021)

Bob Blaylock said:


> Extraordinary.  For once, I find myself completely agreeing with Coyote.  That never happens.
> 
> Am I really the only man participating in this thread who understands how scary the situation described here would be to a woman, and how a woman would be likely to react to it?
> 
> ...


Your point is MADE...


----------



## ESay (Nov 26, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> Oh stop she was a librarian assistant---unmarried.
> 
> My guess---she was drunk and was an aggressive drunk...and yet you want to try political games.


Your guess is strange, to put it mildly.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Nov 26, 2021)

Confederate Soldier said:


> Yes, but she ran away from the scene of a crime. She is not guitless [sic].



  Under some circumstances, fleeing the scene of a collision is justified.  For example, a vulnerable pregnant woman surrounded by a hostile gang of motorcyclists.  I'm pretty sure that under those circumstances, she had reasonable cause to fear for her own safety if she remained on the scene; even more so when this gang chased her all the way to her home.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Nov 26, 2021)

Mad_Jack_Flint said:


> The person did not hunt her down and shot her, so you either missed the part she came out with a gun, pointed it at him and he shot her because of it…



  What, then, were they doing at her home, some distance from the scene of the original incident?


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Nov 26, 2021)

Donald H said:


> Her legal representative on the prosecution will surely claim that they were hunting her down. It should have never escalated past calling the police.
> 
> I'm only telling you people how the law would handle this case in Canada and I realize America needs traffic accidents to end in death by gun. We have nothing to debate.
> 
> This is likely the first of many when or if it goes unpunished.



  No American cares what a quiche-eating faggot from Canaduh thinks of how things should be in our country.  Yours is the nation, and the society, that was founded in cowering and groveling before the same tyrant against whom we rebelled to found our country.


----------



## Turtlesoup (Nov 26, 2021)

Bob Blaylock said:


> She didn't chase them to their homes.


No but if she caused the accident, she wouldn't be chasing them but trying to flee and hide from them.   Need more facts.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Nov 26, 2021)

Donald H said:


> I've only told you people how it would have happened different in Canada.



  No one cares how it would have happened in Canaduh.

  Canaduh is a nation of pussies, founded in kissing George III's ass.


----------



## Turtlesoup (Nov 26, 2021)

ESay said:


> Your guess is strange, to put it mildly.


It's the most common scenerio-------drunks side swipe and flee all the time----when cornered many become very aggressive.   Florida has a large under the influence of drugs or alcohol accidents all the fucking time---and UNINSURED DRIVERS.  Florida Car insurance is high as hell because of these two issues.

Cops will know here shortly if she drunk/high or was uninsured.


----------



## WinterBorn (Nov 26, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> I would've got her plate and car and her with my phone camera.
> 
> I wouldn't have shot her. I would've put my hands up. Odds are a librarian isn't going to pull the trigger.



How would you have known she was a librarian?

And she had already hit you and run.


----------



## Peace (Nov 26, 2021)

Bob Blaylock said:


> What, then, were they doing at her home, some distance from the scene of the original incident?


Did you read the article and did you read the police findings?

She hit a person on a motorcycle, she ran, they followed trying to get her to pull over and she refused and she drove home and went inside and came out with a gun and got shot.

She did not call the police nor did she offer to give any information but instead broke the law many times and got herself killed.

I know the motorcyclist should have apologized and let her go according to those like you because hey who cares about the law?

Did you know it was him that called the Police?

So in the end if she felt her life was being threatened she could have:

1. Locked herself in her vehicle and called the Police.

2. Drove to the nearest Police Station and asked for assistance.

3. When at home called the Police and requested help.

She did none of that but instead walked outside with a loaded gun and hit herself killed…


----------



## Peace (Nov 26, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> You all are some stone-cold killers.
> 
> Why not just let her go?


Right, she hit someone, run and then pull  a gun and you are more upset about the guy wanting her information and shooting her when she escalate it to the point where she get shot and killed…


----------



## surada (Nov 26, 2021)

Mad_Jack_Flint said:


> It is the choice of those being threatened…
> 
> You are trying to make it where the guy that shot the woman should have allowed her to point the firearm at him which she can not and cost her life.
> 
> ...



Report "possible rape"? Are you kidding? How would they know where she lived without following her? It was  hit and run.


----------



## Peace (Nov 26, 2021)

surada said:


> Report "possible rape"? Are you kidding? How would they know where she lived without following her? It was  hit and run.


No, she could have called the Police and said that to get a quicker response from the Police, but she did not even attempt to contact the Police.

My point was she never even tried to involve the Police and took the law into her own hands and got killed.


----------



## surada (Nov 26, 2021)

Mad_Jack_Flint said:


> No, she could have called the Police and said that to get a quicker response from the Police, but she did not even attempt to contact the Police.
> 
> My point was she never even tried to involve the Police and took the law into her own hands and got killed.



So they come flying in and shoot "the rapist"?


----------



## ThisIsMe (Nov 26, 2021)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Well she obviously came out of the house with a gun.


Possibly, the investigation hasn't concluded that yet. We know he SAYS she came out with a gun, but we need to wait to see what they find. We also don't know if they weren't   approaching her house either. 

Time will tell.


----------



## Peace (Nov 26, 2021)

surada said:


> So they come flying in and shoot "the rapist"?


Would they?

Wow, anything I write is consider to be wrong no matter if I state the woman was wrong or that she could have done it differently…

First off if you truly have a problem with what I wrote you can ignore me like I do with a lot of you on here, but you seem to want to argue, so let have at it and when you get enough then fuck off.

First off the bitch who got shot broke the law by not stopping and offering information.

Second, the fucking moron went home and grabbed a gun and got herself killed.

Now the asshole OP said they would have put their hands up and called the Police but did the OP read their own fucking article where it said the guy called the Police?

Why didn’t the woman call the Police if she was in fear of her fucking life?

Didn’t anyone catch that part?

All she had to do is call the police and say she was being stalked and feared she might be raped and the Police would quickly come, but she didn’t even attempt to dial 911, my question for all of you is why not?

Can someone please explain how the woman was in fear of her life but couldn’t call the Police?

Come on guys let me hear the reasoning why the bitch pulled a fucking gun that got her killed?

My bet is if you dig deeply into the story there is a reason why she ran and didn’t call the Police and pulled that gun and it is more of a criminal reasoning.

So she had choices and seeing she already was intending to kill the guy ( because why pull a gun ) she could have just had the Police do it for her and she would be alive and the OP would be happy!

Simple, but not all Cops kill someone and the motorcyclist most likely would have lived and she would be in a lot of trouble but still alive had she just called the damn cops herself!


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 26, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> I would've got her plate and car and her with my phone camera.
> 
> I wouldn't have shot her. I would've put my hands up. Odds are a librarian isn't going to pull the trigger.


Not a chance I would take.


----------



## Peace (Nov 26, 2021)

ThisIsMe said:


> Possibly, the investigation hasn't concluded that yet. We know he SAYS she came out with a gun, but we need to wait to see what they find. We also don't know if they weren't   approaching her house either.
> 
> Time will tell.


All evidence shows she was the aggressor and not him:









						Woman killed in alleged road rage incident was the aggressor: Florida police
					

Sara Nicole Morales was shot outside her house after driving home to get a gun following an altercation with a motorcyclist, according to police.




					www.nydailynews.com
				




The article I have posted state the Police have made the claim she deliberately hit the motorcyclist, ran from the scene, pulled the gun at home and got shot, while the 911 had gotten a call from the motorcyclist, so she got herself killed!


----------



## Peace (Nov 26, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Not a chance I would take.


Especially if you read the part the Police state she deliberately hit the guy, so she would have shot him or tried…


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 26, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Would you have shot her dead?
> 
> I don't think I would've. I would've put my hands up and told her that I'm calling the cops.



  Not having been there I cant say.
If she had the gun in the up and ready position I might have.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 26, 2021)

gtopa1 said:


> Morales also called 911, telling a dispatcher she was being threatened by aggressive men.
> 
> 'You’re three men. You followed me. Leave me alone,' Morales is heard screaming on the call that was released by the authorities.
> 
> ...



  Ah...missed that part. Is this new evidence?
And did she call from home?


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 26, 2021)

ThisIsMe said:


> Possibly, the investigation hasn't concluded that yet. We know he SAYS she came out with a gun, but we need to wait to see what they find. We also don't know if they weren't   approaching her house either.
> 
> Time will tell.



   There was a gun at the scene.
They only way you could explain that away is if you're suggesting the guy had a throw down gun.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Nov 26, 2021)

Bob Blaylock said:


> She didn't chase them to their homes.


She was the one followed to her home.  That's why she got the gun.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 26, 2021)

Tipsycatlover said:


> She was the one followed to her home.  That's why she got the gun.



  Dont mind the gun but she shouldnt have gone outside and waved it around or pointed it at the guy.
She should have opened her door and told them I'm armed and the police are on the way. 
   Not only was it a stupid thing to do it was the least tactical thing she could have done. When she walked out that door she lost concealment and possibly cover. If the guy were to enter her home he has to walk through the fatal funnel also known as a doorway. That puts him at a huge disadvantage because he doesnt know where she is while she knows exactly where he is. All she has to do is pull the trigger where he has to find out where she is before he can shoot.
     So keep that in mind if you ever end up in her situation.


----------



## Donald H (Nov 26, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Yeah....except when it doesn't happen that way in Canada...
> 
> *Nobody was injured after a shooting in a suspected road rage incident in North York Saturday afternoon, police say*
> 
> ...


Yes, we are getting few instances of people carrying guns in Canada and that results in shootings. But so far we have effectively kept the gun problem under control, compared to America where nearly everybody needs to be carrying a gun for personal protection.

I should also say something on topic. The lady librarian was using her gun to defend herself from biker gang members and that never works out well for homeowners.


----------



## Donald H (Nov 26, 2021)

Bob Blaylock said:


> No one cares how it would have happened in Canaduh.
> 
> Canaduh is a nation of pussies, founded in kissing George III's ass.


You should work on your country's problems and not froth at the mouth over Canaduh so much Bob.


----------



## gtopa1 (Nov 26, 2021)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Ah...missed that part. Is this new evidence?
> And did she call from home?


It was down low on the page. Seems she rang from home.

Greg


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 26, 2021)

gtopa1 said:


> It was down low on the page. Seems she rang from home.
> 
> Greg



   If she called 911 they would have told her to stay in the house and not confront them.
Thats pretty much standard. Makes me wonder if she disobeyed and did it anyway.
    Those hispanic chicks can get pretty fired up.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Nov 26, 2021)

Donald H said:


> You should work on your country's problems and not froth at the mouth over Canaduh so much Bob.



  You're the one in here, with no standing whatsoever, presuming to preach to us Americans how things should be done in our country.

  And you're a relic of those who kissed George III's ass, who cowered and groveled before the same tyrant against whom we rebelled to establish our country.

  One again, there is no reason why any American should give a fuck what a faggot from Canaduh thinks about how we should run our country.


----------



## Donald H (Nov 26, 2021)

Bob Blaylock said:


> You're the one in here, with no standing whatsoever, presuming to preach to us Americans how things should be done in our country.
> 
> And you're a relic of those who kissed George III's ass, who cowered and groveled before the same tyrant against whom we rebelled to establish our country.
> 
> One again, there is no reason why any American should give a fuck what a faggot from Canaduh thinks about how we should run our country.


You're going to resist right to the end Bob, but many have already started to understand what has gone wrong and are hinting at it.

And you Bob, will have to continue to turn your nose up at anything government tries to do that will make your life better.

Imagine all the patsies turning  their noses up at 'insulin' prices and the ACA! It has to be that it's so completely hammered into your skull that you'll take it to your grave.

And George III doesn't even care.

Oh, and as for the 2a crap, people like you won't be happy until you're all walking around like cowboys in the movies with your guns on  your hips!


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Nov 26, 2021)

Donald H said:


> And you Bob, will have to continue to turn your nose up at anything government tries to do that will make your life better.



  That's a difference between me, in America, and you, in Canaduh.

  You're stupid enough to believe that what government does to you, it does for your own benefit, to make your life better; too blind, too stupid, and too cowardly to even try to see what is being done to you to what effect, and who is really benefitting from it.

_“Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say ‘what should be the reward of such sacrifices?’ Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship and plough, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom — go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!”_ — Samuel Adams​


----------



## Coyote (Nov 26, 2021)

Mad_Jack_Flint said:


> All evidence shows she was the aggressor and not him:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That article gives a bit more info.


----------



## Otis Mayfield (Nov 27, 2021)

Orange City police said that Morales, who was pregnant, was driving a blue Kia just after 5 p.m. on Saturday when she allegedly hit a motorcycle and fled the scene.

Investigators said that Morales “intentionally hit the motorcyclist,” Fox 35 Orlando reported.

The motorcyclist and other witnesses followed the woman home while contacting authorities.
When Morales arrived at her house, she went inside to retrieve a gun. She then pointed the gun at the motorcyclist.

Emergency responders with the Orange City Fire Rescue were called to the scene and the woman was transported to Halifax Medical Center, where she later died from the injuries.

Investigators say that the motorcyclist, who had a concealed weapons permit, remained at the scene and has been cooperating with police.
Morales leaves behind an 11-year-old daughter and a fiancé.
The investigation is still ongoing, investigators said. No one has been charged.










						Woman killed in alleged road rage incident was the aggressor: Florida police
					

Sara Nicole Morales was shot outside her house after driving home to get a gun following an altercation with a motorcyclist, according to police.




					www.nydailynews.com
				





This is from yesterday. A bit more information.

She would've been better off if she didn't have a gun.


----------



## Opie (Nov 27, 2021)

Yes Self Defense. Stand Your Ground? Given the fact he was on her property but here is the thing now the fact did he chase her cussing at her whatever thats not on trial did he go to her house with malice intent to kill her. Like the Rittenhouse Prosecutor said "He is not the only one to have the right to defend himself" Just like this lady was not the only person that can defend herself. Why? He is not committing a crime, he IS on her property but this is Florida in my state you per say cannot chase a home invader out and shoot him dead in your driveway because the threat is retreating. This woman came out to NOT a threat on her property and then MADE ONE and this man that posed NO THREAT to be shot acted FASTER and disabled the threat. Self Defense


----------



## Otis Mayfield (Nov 27, 2021)

Patriot43 said:


> Yes Self Defense. Stand Your Ground? Given the fact he was on her property but here is the thing now the fact did he chase her cussing at her whatever thats not on trial did he go to her house with malice intent to kill her. Like the Rittenhouse Prosecutor said "He is not the only one to have the right to defend himself" Just like this lady was not the only person that can defend herself. Why? He is not committing a crime, he IS on her property but this is Florida in my state you per say cannot chase a home invader out and shoot him dead in your driveway because the threat is retreating. This woman came out to NOT a threat on her property and then MADE ONE and this man that posed NO THREAT to be shot acted FASTER and disabled the threat. Self Defense



What if when she came of the house with a gun, the biker put his hands up in the air and said, "okay, we're leaving. Just stay calm."

He had already called the cops.


----------



## Opie (Nov 27, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> What if when she came of the house with a gun, the biker put his hands up in the air and said, "okay, we're leaving. Just stay calm."
> 
> He had already called the cops.


I agree I see your point but does he know she will let him even get the first two words out. Also I thought this maybe she thought she was being chased by the bikers and came out to confront them but if that was the case she should of stayed in the house. This is a hard one


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Nov 27, 2021)

Patriot43 said:


> Yes Self Defense. Stand Your Ground? Given the fact he was on her property but here is the thing now the fact did he chase her cussing at her whatever thats not on trial did he go to her house with malice intent to kill her. Like the Rittenhouse Prosecutor said "He is not the only one to have the right to defend himself" Just like this lady was not the only person that can defend herself. Why? He is not committing a crime, he IS on her property but this is Florida in my state you per say cannot chase a home invader out and shoot him dead in your driveway because the threat is retreating. This woman came out to NOT a threat on her property and then MADE ONE and this man that posed NO THREAT to be shot acted FASTER and disabled the threat. Self Defense


He NEVER set foot on her property he stayed on the street.


----------



## Donald H (Nov 27, 2021)

Bob Blaylock said:


> That's a difference between me, in America, and you, in Canaduh.
> 
> You're stupid enough to believe that what government does to you, it does for your own benefit, to make your life better; too blind, too stupid, and too cowardly to even try to see what is being done to you to what effect, and who is really benefitting from it.
> 
> ​


My government isn't your government Bob and so that's why you got that  wrong opinion.  But there's no doubt your corrupt government has failed the people.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 27, 2021)

Donald H said:


> My government isn't your government Bob and so that's why you got that  wrong opinion.  But there's no doubt your corrupt government has failed the people.


This week's message for you: Go quack yourself pissant.


----------



## Faun (Nov 27, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> They were trespassing.


Only the McCloskey's were convicted of crimes.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 27, 2021)

Coyote said:


> That article gives a bit more info.



  Not really.
It's whats been said from the git go.
  She hit the dude intentionally, went home,came out with a gun and pointed it at the guy she hit and got perforated for her stupidity.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Nov 27, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> A case of road rage in Central Florida left one of the motorists, a mother-to-be, dead last Saturday evening.
> 
> According to the Orange City Police Department, the incident began around 5 p.m. Nov. 20 when Sara Nicole Morales, 35, hit Andrew Derr’s motorcycle with her blue Kia. It is unclear why she hit his bike.
> 
> ...


Hit and run and self defense.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Nov 27, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> I would've got her plate and car and her with my phone camera.
> 
> I wouldn't have shot her. I would've put my hands up. Odds are a librarian isn't going to pull the trigger.


And you mighta got gunned down in the road, too.  Not a chance I would take.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Nov 27, 2021)

Coyote said:


> Too damn many guns.


Too many dumb fucks.  Well, one less, now.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Nov 27, 2021)

Coyote said:


> Given how he subsequently behaved, I suspect he and his buddies were probably pretty aggressive after she hit him.  As a woman, I can see how frightening it be to be followed home like, in fact I’d be freaked out.  I had something kind of similar happen.  I was driving in Pittsburgh, was lost, accidentally cut a guy off (no one got hit, no accident). He followed me, tried to cut me off several times, I kept driving until I found a place that other people around and pulled into the parking lot.  He came up next to me yelling and swearing at me.  I apologized and explained I was lost but he just kept on.  I left and he followed me.  It was absolutely freaky.


She could have stayed in the house and called the cops.  Her life wasn't in danger.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Nov 27, 2021)

surada said:


> Sadly, I agree. The men had called 911 to report a hit and run and they weren't on her property.


Why sadly?


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Nov 27, 2021)

He


Tommy Tainant said:


> It isnt self-defence in any way. He and his mates followed her home. She must have been terrified.
> He had plenty of options and just wanted to use his gun.
> 
> He should go to jail .


R life wasn't in danger.  Just like you can't shoot a burglar who's running away, after he exits your home.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL (Nov 27, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> A case of road rage in Central Florida left one of the motorists, a mother-to-be, dead last Saturday evening.
> 
> According to the Orange City Police Department, the incident began around 5 p.m. Nov. 20 when Sara Nicole Morales, 35, hit Andrew Derr’s motorcycle with her blue Kia. It is unclear why she hit his bike.
> 
> ...


YES!!!!  She could have avoided the entire thing!!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL (Nov 27, 2021)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> He
> 
> R life wasn't in danger.  Just like you can't shoot a burglar who's running away, after he exits your hometown


A


----------



## surada (Nov 27, 2021)

Patriot43 said:


> Yes Self Defense. Stand Your Ground? Given the fact he was on her property but here is the thing now the fact did he chase her cussing at her whatever thats not on trial did he go to her house with malice intent to kill her. Like the Rittenhouse Prosecutor said "He is not the only one to have the right to defend himself" Just like this lady was not the only person that can defend herself. Why? He is not committing a crime, he IS on her property but this is Florida in my state you per say cannot chase a home invader out and shoot him dead in your driveway because the threat is retreating. This woman came out to NOT a threat on her property and then MADE ONE and this man that posed NO THREAT to be shot acted FASTER and disabled the threat. Self Defense



He wasn't on her property ..





Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Why sadly?



Wasted life, stupidity, a child growing up without her mother.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL (Nov 27, 2021)

Another stupid remark from the Englishman. LEGALLY she was bound to stop 🛑 to exchange information. Instead she fled the scene. They had every right to follow her to find out where she lived and exchange info.
 Why didn’t she do it? Instead she came out with a gun? 
     She put her own life in danger ⚠️ and she lost


----------



## ClaireH (Nov 27, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> You all are some stone-cold killers.
> 
> Why not just let her go?


When a gun is pointed at someone who could also be armed (like this case) how many seconds do you think you should wait until you shoot? This whole incident could’ve been avoided. Total guess here but I would imagine, because she pointed without shooting, that her intent was to scare them off and make them leave. The motorcycle guy should have immediately called 911 and gave them the plate number when she hit his motorcycle intentionally instead of following her.

Thorough gun training stresses that if you take your weapon out and point it at someone there should be no other reason to be doing so unless you have an intention to kill. He should not have followed her home and she should not have gone into the house and got the gun. I imagine her pregnancy hormones were in play for that stupid decision.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL (Nov 28, 2021)

ClaireH said:


> When a gun is pointed at someone who could also be armed (like this case) how many seconds do you think you should wait until you shoot? This whole incident could’ve been avoided. Total guess here but I would imagine, because she pointed without shooting, that her intent was to scare them off and make them leave. The motorcycle guy should have immediately called 911 and gave them the plate number when she hit his motorcycle intentionally instead of following her.
> 
> Thorough gun training stresses that if you take your weapon out and point it at someone there should be no other reason to be doing so unless you have an intention to kill. He should not have followed her home and she should not have gone into the house and got the gun. I imagine her pregnancy hormones were in play for that stupid decision.


In hindsight that would have been better but it would have been better if she didn’t take off! She didn’t deserve it but she initiated it


----------



## ClaireH (Nov 28, 2021)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> In hindsight that would have been better but it would have been better if she didn’t take off! She didn’t deserve it but she initiated it


Men won’t understand but I have a strong feeling her pregnancy could have had her triggered more easily than say her “normal” self. She was still fully responsible for the hit and run and for escalating by going inside and coming back out with a gun. Raging hormones do trigger certain women during pregnancy, and noooo this is not giving her an out by any measure, just bringing it into the conversation.  I have no clue she could’ve always overreacted emotionally but I can tell you from my personal experience those pregnancy hormones can kind of inflame your mood-at times, just on occasion, given the wrong circumstances. I was nine months pregnant and a rude neighbor in a former neighborhood had her car stereo blasting at 5 AM in the morning with her car door open. It was two hours before I had to get up for work and I was not a happy camper because I hadn’t slept well. Let’s just say we didn’t talk after that morning lol


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 28, 2021)

ClaireH said:


> Men won’t understand but I have a strong feeling her pregnancy could have had her triggered more easily than say her “normal” self. She was still fully responsible for the hit and run and for escalating by going inside and coming back out with a gun. Raging hormones do trigger certain women during pregnancy, and noooo this is not giving her an out by any measure, just bringing it into the conversation.  I have no clue she could’ve always overreacted emotionally but I can tell you from my personal experience those pregnancy hormones can kind of inflame your mood-at times, just on occasion, given the wrong circumstances. I was nine months pregnant and a rude neighbor in a former neighborhood had her car stereo blasting at 5 AM in the morning with her car door open. It was two hours before I had to get up for work and I was not a happy camper because I hadn’t slept well. Let’s just say we didn’t talk after that morning lol



  Ya gotta take into account she's hispanic.
They're known to fly off the handle and make poor decisions when they're pressed.


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## ClaireH (Nov 28, 2021)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Ya gotta take into account she's hispanic.
> They're known to fly off the handle and make poor decisions when they're pressed.


I wasn’t aware of that part but you are right that many Hispanics are most expressive with their emotions. I know of a few Hispanic adults who fit that mode, and others who do not. Various ethnic groups have that stereotype but genetic disposition cannot be ruled out as a factor.


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## Canon Shooter (Nov 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Pregnant woman hits motorcycle guy in a minor accident with her Kia. The bike didn't even fall over.
> 
> Woman flees scene of the accident. Guy on bike follows her.
> 
> ...



100%...


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## Eric Arthur Blair (Apr 3, 2022)

Otis Mayfield said:


> He'll probably get off because of self defense.
> 
> But I think he had other options. Other than killing her.


Worked for Michael Byrd.  And then the fucker was stupid enough to claim he saved "countless lives".

Roast in hell, dim witted liar.


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## LibertyKid (Apr 11, 2022)

Terrible situation here that ended tragically. I'm a motorcyclist and I do enjoy watching a few youtube channels in regard to motorcycling. 
Current trends that I am seeing. There are a lot of motovloggers on the roads and if they have a youtube channel they are looking for material to get views. A very good chance the rider was recording
In many of the videos I watch, especially of accidents or near accidents, motorcyclists will turn and chase the person driving the car and confront. This is a terrible choice. I would not be surprised to find that this group of bikers (not using the term biker to denote 1% biker gangs) are influenced by youtube and or other SM platforms to upload content. And when presented with the opportunity as this situation initially presented, a hit and run, this is a SM gold mine. So the bikers pursued the driver of the car. 

The biker should have never pursued. Especially if they have recorded the entire incident and have the plate on camera. But again, wouldn't be surprised to find out they wanted the footage.  

Also, when carrying, here in the state of Ohio, you must not initiate or instigate the situation. What will be interesting is how the lawyers will interpret initiating in this situation. The shooter did not brandish his firearm first, but could pursuing the driver back to her home be seen as initiating the situation? I'm curious as to how this will play out. 

However, the driver should have NEVER came back outside with a gun and began pointing the gun. At that moment, you are giving anyone with a CHL or who is open carrying the right to defend themselves.

Ohhh and reading the article it says that "Morales"(the driver) intentionally hit the biker and fled. Would love to see the entire video


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## miketx (Jul 6, 2022)

JGalt said:


> So he knew she was a librarian?
> 
> She was the aggressor, and then she then took off. They followed her and then she retrieved a gun and pointed it at them
> 
> She chose bad choices.


I don't think I could shoot a librarian. I mean if a woman pulled a gun on me, first thing I would do is ask "Are you a librarian?" If she said yes I'd ask her to explain that gol-dam Dewey decimal system! By then the cops would be there.


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