# I'm right about World Trade Centers and have an idea how they fell



## TheCrusader (Dec 31, 2015)

I knew it!  I knew it made no sense that the much lighter top would collapse the whole "supposedly" undamaged bottom.  Now I found scientific engineering papers to PROVE IT!  Did you know that the WTC were designed to so that they were holding only 30% of their capacity by weight?  That means the WTC towers could hold up to almost 300 more floors!  And just 18 floors collapsed the whole building?

Here's the paper: with some quotations:

http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/2008/TheMissingJolt7.pdf



> The rigidity of the upper block of stories is crucial to this explanation. If the upper block were to break, disintegrate or flow on impact it would certainly not threaten the 92 intact floors beneath it. In addition, the rigid block had to fall onto the rest of the building. Although this seems obvious, the NIST authors are often shy about saying it. We hear about the rigid block’s “descent.”[5] We hear of tilting and “downward movement.”[6] We have to look carefully to find the NIST authors using the language of falling. *Whatever the reasons for their reticence, it is clear that it will not do for the upper block to ease itself onto the building beneath it, with a gradual creaking of buckled columns and sagging floors. If this were to happen, why would the structure beneath collapse?*



If the upper block didn't just rest down onto the remaining intact structure and therefore do nothing...it would have either bounced off (as a block) or pulverized on top of the remaining structure and fallen away like a water balloon hitting a post.



> There was nothing special about the weight of the upper block, rigid or otherwise. The lower part of the Tower had held up this weight without difficulty since 1970. *The lower block had 283 cold steel columns, with less than 30% of their total load capacity being utilized for gravity loads, because of the factors of safety designed into the structure and the need to withstand high winds—and gravity loads were essentially the only loads the columns would have been subject to on a day such as 9/11 with little wind. The lower block was not weak, nor (excluding stories 93-98) was it damaged by plane impact or fire.* The weight of the upper block posed no threat to it. If there were to be a threat, *it had to come from the momentum of the upper block. But momentum is a product of mass and velocity, and since the upper block could not increase its mass it had to increase, if it were to become a threat, its velocity.* Since NIST’s theory assumes the only energy at play at this stage of events was gravitational, the upper block had to fall, and the greater its velocity the greater its momentum.* The longer and the less impeded its fall, the greater would be its impact on the lower structure. So it is no surprise that the NIST authors, however shy they are about affirming it, eventually come out in favour of the falling of the upper block.* [7]



But I'm not willing to be a *TRUTHER*

I have an alternative theory how the towers fell.

Instead of cutting the core, like most imagine it happened, with pancaking floors which would in fact have just bounced off the rest of the 93 floors below them.

The core remained intact, and loosened by fire and outer shell damage to those support columns, the structure did something it was NEVER designed to do.

It twisted, from top to bottom, head to foot, root to crown.

For an hour, subtle by inches or less and impossible to see by the eye, hundreds of thousands of tons were stuck to the rest of the building fastened by the core columns and these columns were twisting.

What happens when you move a steel beam only centimeters or an inch, in a direction they aren't allowed to move, in a structure held together by super brittle grains of sand we call "Cement"?

It fits all the ground-zero witness descriptions.

Groaning, cracking, explosive sounds, floors giving way at multiple levels, elevator shafts sheering and breaking apart.

As that steel moves the concrete under the pressure of its own structure starts blowing out of the walls like artillery rounds, just like a prybar hitting concrete only with 1,000,000 pounds twisting it.

The towers were designed to sway, not to twist.

So, this is the only reasonable explanation I can come-up with other than explosives, to explain why when the top fell, the rest of the tower was barely able to resist the pancake collapse.  Because after an hour the whole interior was already broken up and the shockwave passing through the remains was able to knock floors loose before they were even hit by the floors above *(which explains the near free fall speed).*

*SUPPLEMENTAL EDIT:*

What I'm describing is Torsion and is the most dangerous movement a building can sustain.  Torsion occurs without symmetry and when mass is significant to one structural support versus another.  My theory is that the planes damaged the symmetry and the core still intact, the torsion ripped the building apart at all levels and so the damage WAS in fact complete and through-out the entire structure.

Why has no one discovered this so far?

Because those who aren't looking already accepted a simplistic official answer, those who are looking are looking for the wrong biased reasons such as the building was rigged with explosives.

Here's an explanation of torsion.

HOW BUILDINGS TWIST DURING EARTHQUAKES?

*FURTHER SUPPLEMENTAL EDIT:*



> The structure of the floors was a prefabricated unit of open web steel joists with an insitu structural concrete slab. The floors tied together the exterior perimeter columns and the interior steel frame to resist twisting, or torsion, of the tower



http://web.mit.edu/civenv/wtc/PDFfiles/Chapter I History.pdf

I have been hunting for evidence about how the WTC towers are built with regards to torsion and SURE enough we see here that (as would be expected) they are built to resist torsion but look how they are built to resist torsion.

The FLOORS tie together the core and exterior columns!

So this supports my hypothesis in several ways.

With the floors collapsed and severely damaged at the top, the top acts like a giant torsion wrench pulling on the ENTIRE STRUCTURE.

After the core fractures in what is called "Spiral fracturing" and has many green stick fractures running through the whole top to bottom, and the top does collapse...I hypothesize the collapse was so orderly because there was a twisting motion the whole way down.

As each floor broke away the building twisted apart like a zipper coming undone.

It wouldn't have made a 180 degree turn, or 360 degree twist or anything dramatic, but enough to just peel the building down like peeling a banana.

*THIRD SUPPLEMENTAL EDIT: (High Density Polymer)*

In the above paper it also cites that High Density Polymer was used to absorb lateral oscillation of the floors against the walls.  So hunting it down I found its flammability characteristics.

I believe it to be possible to explain why there were continuous explosions heard internally, the polymer as it burns (also at a higher temperature than most office products) gives off explosive gasses.

Here is the data sheet:

http://www.ntepa.nt.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0013/20371/appendix5.pdf


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## Vigilante (Dec 31, 2015)

Did you read that the HEAT from all that jet fuel burning actually fatigued drastically the steel in the WTC?


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## TheCrusader (Dec 31, 2015)

Vigilante said:


> Did you read that the HEAT from all that jet fuel burning actually fatigued drastically the steel in the WTC?



Yes I don't care about explaining if the steel were weakened, that can't explain how 18 floors would damage the rest of the building, do you have any idea how well desgined the WTC were?  They could hold up the weight of 4 WTCs...Got that?  The heat was only effecting floors 93 through 98.

So are you saying 18 floors became 440 floors worth of momentum in just 2 or so floors worth of falling?

If so, why didn't those 18 floors just break into pieces and fall to the side of the obviously MUCH STRONGER 92 floors beneath them that weren't weakened by jet fuel burning?


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## DarkFury (Dec 31, 2015)

Vigilante said:


> Did you read that the HEAT from all that jet fuel burning actually fatigued drastically the steel in the WTC?


*By the time this nit wit gets done they will re-name this forum the "Foil Hat Forum".*


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## TheCrusader (Dec 31, 2015)

DarkFury said:


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Read the OP and read the article provided unless you're too damn a fucking coward to talk about the engineering evidence provided.


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## Vigilante (Dec 31, 2015)

No, I'm out, I have enough to do with bitch slapping leftist assholes in political threads!


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## TheCrusader (Dec 31, 2015)

Vigilante said:


> No, I'm out, I have enough to do with bitch slapping leftist assholes in political threads!


Sounds like you just don't know what the fuck you're talking about and got in over your head.


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## Vigilante (Dec 31, 2015)

TheCrusader said:


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There you go!


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## TheCrusader (Dec 31, 2015)

Vigilante said:


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I noticed you haven't addressed a single fact in the OP at all.

You're even so unread that you don't even realize that *this thread suggests the WTC fell on their own*


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## Vigilante (Dec 31, 2015)

TheCrusader said:


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Whatever you say, wonderboy! No wonder someone already made a thread out of banning this child already!

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


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## DarkFury (Dec 31, 2015)

TheCrusader said:


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*Elevator shafts are MAJOR structure points in a building okay stupid? Jet fuel burning in a contained area like a shaft builds heat to more then 1600 degrees FAR more then is needed to melt/cut steel.

Those SAME shafts stupid run BELOW street level so the structure IS attacked well beyond what your pin head brain can figure. Unless of course you can prove jet fuel runs AGAINST the laws of nature such as GRAVITY. Good luck with that idiot.*


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## TheCrusader (Dec 31, 2015)

DarkFury said:


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Sorry but no one says Jet Fuel was burning ANYWHERE except Floors 93 to 98.

I'm really sorry you're so stupid to think that the Core Elevator shafts ran from floors 110 to Ground floor.

The actuality is each core elevator shaft was separated from each other, so if jet fuel did pour down the 93rd floor elevators it would only have set fire to the sky lobby on the 78th Floor.

Which didn't happen.

Who looks like an IDIOT now?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/WTC_1&2_Arrangement_of_Express_and_Local_Elevators.jpg

As you can see the only possible elevator shaft for your crackpot stupid theory is the service elevator.  Which wasn't even near the core of the building.


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## Hossfly (Dec 31, 2015)

TheCrusader said:


> I knew it!  I knew it made no sense that the much lighter top would collapse the whole "supposedly" undamaged bottom.  Now I found scientific engineering papers to PROVE IT!  Did you know that the WTC were designed to so that they were holding only 30% of their capacity by weight?  That means the WTC towers could hold up to almost 300 more floors!  And just 18 floors collapsed the whole building?
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> Here's the paper: with some quotations:
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Jeebus on a bloody crutch!!  What next?


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## TheCrusader (Dec 31, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> TheCrusader said:
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> > I knew it!  I knew it made no sense that the much lighter top would collapse the whole "supposedly" undamaged bottom.  Now I found scientific engineering papers to PROVE IT!  Did you know that the WTC were designed to so that they were holding only 30% of their capacity by weight?  That means the WTC towers could hold up to almost 300 more floors!  And just 18 floors collapsed the whole building?
> ...



If you actually read my damn post you'd see that I don't think the buildings were "imploded" in a government conspiracy but that I disagree with the official reason and the official reason of collapse is stupid which is why we need a better explanation.


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## TheCrusader (Dec 31, 2015)

I've been adding a lot of supplemental evidence to my hypothesis.


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## HenryBHough (Dec 31, 2015)

In my very best Hillary Rodham-Clinton/Lewinsky impersonation tone:

*What difference does it make?*


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## Missourian (Dec 31, 2015)

A case study in the Dunning-Kruger effect.


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## TheCrusader (Dec 31, 2015)

Missourian said:


> A case study in the Dunning-Kruger effect.



Really?  Does the Dunning-Kruger effect describe supporting hypotheses with facts and other supportive theories?


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## TheCrusader (Dec 31, 2015)

As I keep adding supplemental edits this theory becomes more and more practical.


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## Old Yeller (Dec 31, 2015)

TheCrusader said:


> Groaning, cracking, explosive sounds, floors giving way at multiple levels, elevator shafts sheering and breaking apart.
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> As that steel moves the concrete under the pressure of its own structure starts blowing out of the walls like artillery rounds, just like a prybar hitting concrete only with 1,000,000 pounds twisting it.
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> The towers were designed to sway, not to twist.





Twisting of the steel beams sounds very sensible. I think I even saw that on Natl Geo channel? What is the argument here?


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## TheCrusader (Dec 31, 2015)

num_nut said:


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I don't know, my thread is just informative, apparently others didn't read my OP and thought I was going to say Aliens hit it with a cloaked Independence Day ship or something.

I'm searching for more torsion evidence myself, any idea how to reference to the Natl Geo discussion?


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## TheCrusader (Dec 31, 2015)

I definitely don't think they were "imploded"...you watch some of the videos and at least portions of 2nd WTC were standing as high as 70 floors...massive portions that fell later...

But I don't think it could have fallen except for some torsion through the whole thing.


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## JakeStarkey (Dec 31, 2015)

"Aliens hit it with a cloaked Independence Day ship or something."


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## LA RAM FAN (Jan 2, 2016)

DarkFury said:


> Vigilante said:
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so says one of  USMB's trolls.lol


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## LA RAM FAN (Jan 2, 2016)

JakeStarkey said:


> "Aliens hit it with a cloaked Independence Day ship or something."


the shills are out in full force i see.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jan 2, 2016)

Vigilante said:


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so says the child who cant stand toe to toe in a debate.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jan 2, 2016)

TheCrusader said:


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thats who all these Bush dupe trolls act,they throw childish insults and claim YOU are the one being a child when they are the ones who refuse to address facts because they know they cant stand toe to toe in a debate.

thats how they always behave,they cant debate,they just call you names and refuse to discuss the facts that they refuse to address a single fact.


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## Muhammed (Jan 2, 2016)

Vigilante said:


> Did you read that the HEAT from all that jet fuel burning actually fatigued drastically the steel in the WTC?


Maybe they got knocked down by gigantic speeding figments of your imagination.


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## Muhammed (Jan 2, 2016)

Vigilante said:


> Did you read that the HEAT from all that jet fuel burning actually fatigued drastically the steel in the WTC?


Ever see magnesium burn without dark welding goggles.


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## Skylar (Jan 2, 2016)

9/11 inside job said:


> JakeStarkey said:
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That's your line in every thread where these topics are discussed?

Is there anything to you but *another* batshit conspiracy you can't back up?


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## candycorn (Jan 3, 2016)

Elevator/service areas ran the length of the buildings:





Jet fuel would have been able to reach anywhere in the building if it accessed the core structures.

The argument that a 15-20 floor section would not be able to destroy the floors beneath ignores basica principles such as inertia.  Once a floor is weakened by the falling setcion, it becomes part of the 'snowball" that plows downward.


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## Eaglewings (Jan 3, 2016)

Have you ever seen the Jesse Ventura 9/11 conspiracy theory? He has many shows that are really good.


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## Gamolon (Jan 4, 2016)

TheCrusader said:


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TheCrusader,

You are wrong on a few things. The service elevator WAS contained in the core. As were ALL the elevators. It was located in line with one side of express elevators. In the case of the North Tower, there was an elevator operator who was badly burned by the jet fuel and emerged on the lower levels as reported by William Rodriguez who saw him and came to his aid.


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## Gamolon (Jan 4, 2016)

TheCrusader said:


> I knew it!  I knew it made no sense that the much lighter top would collapse the whole "supposedly" undamaged bottom.  Now I found scientific engineering papers to PROVE IT!  Did you know that the WTC were designed to so that they were holding only 30% of their capacity by weight?  That means the WTC towers could hold up to almost 300 more floors!  And just 18 floors collapsed the whole building?
> 
> Here's the paper: with some quotations:
> 
> http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/2008/TheMissingJolt7.pdf



TheCrusader,

If you think that a "smaller block" could not destroy a "larger block" then explain why Tony Szamboti says this at the ISF forum:



> Additionally, to take down the Twin Towers it wouldn't be necessary to be artificially removing structural integrity all the way down the building, as at some point the falling debris is enough to cause overload. Something like ten to twenty stories would work and after that the collapse would be self-propagating.



So removing 10 floors (the lesser end of Tony's spectrum) would probably be enough to let the descending debris of the upper, smaller block, destroy the remainder of the tower. This is coming from the same person who wrote the Missing Jolt paper you linked.


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## Gamolon (Jan 4, 2016)

TheCrusader said:


> I knew it!  I knew it made no sense that the much lighter top would collapse the whole "supposedly" undamaged bottom.  Now I found scientific engineering papers to PROVE IT!  Did you know that the WTC were designed to so that they were holding only 30% of their capacity by weight?  That means the WTC towers could hold up to almost 300 more floors!  And just 18 floors collapsed the whole building?



TheCrusader,

How much was each individual floor designed to hold up vertically? Is this design load for each floor the same for the core and perimeter columns or different? Could I stack 300 more floors (floors only, nor core or perimeter columns) on a single floor and that single floor would hold them all up?


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## ClosedCaption (Jan 4, 2016)

Vigilante said:


> Did you read that the HEAT from all that jet fuel burning actually fatigued drastically the steel in the WTC?



Thats right, and caused it to fall perfectly vertically.


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## martybegan (Jan 4, 2016)

candycorn said:


> Elevator/service areas ran the length of the buildings:
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It all depends on the relative strength of the anchorages each floor had to the main vertical external columns and the main internal vertical structure. If you have 10 or so of those weakened, and then you have 10 floors worth of weight hitting an "intact" connection network, do you really think those connectors can handle 10x their rated load? 

Ah, the conspiracy theory forum, where people who can't stand each other in the other forums find common ground.


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## Gamolon (Jan 5, 2016)

martybegan said:


> It all depends on the relative strength of the anchorages each floor had to the main vertical external columns and the main internal vertical structure.


Correct.

And a clue to the validity of this statement is contained in the very paragraph quoted by TheCrusader.


> *The lower block had 283 cold steel columns, with less than 30% of their total load capacity being utilized for gravity loads, because of the factors of safety designed into the structure and the need to withstand high winds—and gravity loads were essentially the only loads the columns would have been subject to on a day such as 9/11 with little wind. *



Notice the mention of the COLUMNS only. TheCrusader is making the mistake of not considering that the towers were constructed of structural subsystems that came together to function as a whole. Each structural subsystem was designed for different purposes AND different loads. Each floor was designed to support loads placed on it alone and had nothing to do with the floors above. The loads for each floor transferred to the columns via connections, which went to the grillages at the foundations.

The floors were MUCH weaker than the columns in a vertical sense which is why you see remnants of the core still standing with the floors having been stripped away. The descending debris was too much for the floors and their connections, so it sheared them from the columns.


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## Gamolon (Jan 6, 2016)

TheCrusader, where'd you go?


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## LA RAM FAN (Jan 7, 2016)

ClosedCaption said:


> Vigilante said:
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and your deluded fairytale land you live in yes.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jan 7, 2016)

TheCrusader said:


> I knew it!  I knew it made no sense that the much lighter top would collapse the whole "supposedly" undamaged bottom.  Now I found scientific engineering papers to PROVE IT!  Did you know that the WTC were designed to so that they were holding only 30% of their capacity by weight?  That means the WTC towers could hold up to almost 300 more floors!  And just 18 floors collapsed the whole building?
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> Here's the paper: with some quotations:
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> ...



ah because some INTERNET link says it happened that way,you think fires brought them down.Oh my the gullible.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news and break your heart but thousands of credible architects and engineers disagree with you as well as along with demolition experts and witnesses who were there who heard explosions in the basement long before the plane allegedly struck it above and the damage to the basement confirmed it.

nice try but miserable fail

time to get out the crying towel to wipe the shit off your face since you actually believed you were right and wont be able to accpe facts you arr wrong.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jan 7, 2016)

TheCrusader said:


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the fact you cant accept facts that explosives brought the towers down,while yes he doesnt know what the fuck he is talking about,so are you and neither do you.

i would have read the link until I saw where you lost your credibility when you said on that other thread explosives did not bring them down.


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## MisterBeale (Jan 8, 2016)

DarkFury said:


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## Skylar (Jan 8, 2016)

9/11 inside job said:


> TheCrusader said:
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> > I knew it!  I knew it made no sense that the much lighter top would collapse the whole "supposedly" undamaged bottom.  Now I found scientific engineering papers to PROVE IT!  Did you know that the WTC were designed to so that they were holding only 30% of their capacity by weight?  That means the WTC towers could hold up to almost 300 more floors!  And just 18 floors collapsed the whole building?
> ...



If the explosions were in the basements....why did the collapse begin at the impact site, a minimum of 77 stories above....and proceed downward?

Exactly opposite of where the explosions were.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jan 8, 2016)

someone farted in here.^


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## LA RAM FAN (Jan 8, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


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the shills forget unlike them,that WE did not skip junior high school science classes and actually understand that ALUMINUM "CANT"  penetrate in and out of several girders of STEEL like swiss cheese.

their handlers sure pay them well for their evasive tactics and ass beatings they get here constantly.

This is what the shills do  with facts like this-


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## Skylar (Jan 8, 2016)

9/11 inside job said:


> someone farted in here.^



Yeah, I didn't think you could answer the question on why the building began collasping from the TOP when the 'explosions' were supposed to be a the bottom.

But then, avoiding the trucksized, theory killing holes in the absurdly complicated Truther conspiracy is what Truthers do.


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## Skylar (Jan 8, 2016)

9/11 inside job said:


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This should be interesting. So if the plane couldn't penetrate the building, what did?


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## Gamolon (Jan 8, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


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Would you like to discuss the problems with your comparison of the two items above or the inaccurate claims of the "100,000 tons of steel" picture?


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## MisterBeale (Jan 8, 2016)

Gamolon said:


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The World Trade Center — Facts and Figures
I'll admit, the analogy is pretty specious at best, however, it's just so absurd to think that the fuel in those planes took down those towers.

I'll also admit, NIST makes a pretty convincing case.  That is, if you take them seriously.  After their analysis and work with WTC 7, I don't.  If you do, that's your choice.

Clearly, most of the world, and the free market doesn't take NIST seriously either.

*Are Tall Buildings Safer As a Result of the NIST WTC Reports?*
Are Tall Buildings Safer As a Result of the NIST WTC Reports? Washington's Blog


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## SAYIT (Jan 9, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


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Interesting methodology.

In a lame attempt to support your conclusions you post an analogy that even you consider to be "pretty specious at best" (and rational adults consider just plain idiotic) yet continue to cling desperately to those conclusions. 

An honest adult in search of "the truth" would have long ago left that CT silliness behind and stepped into the light. You are neither.

"I thought the term ‘Truth Movement’ meant that there’d be some search for truth. I was wrong." - Charlie Veitch, former "Truther"


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## MisterBeale (Jan 9, 2016)

SAYIT said:


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How slyly you totally skipped over the second half of my post.  The whole point is that your postiion is irrelevant.

The free market, actually businesses, local and regional have ignored the official story and continue to conduct business pretty much the same as it ever have.  Building structures the same as before.

Building codes haven't changed.  They've only made stairwells a little bigger.  The fire proofing codes have changed a little, but if you read the link, they were going to do that anyway.  Other than that, nothing has changed.


How about all these laws both parties have passed since 911?  They have only cost us a lot of money and freedom.  They haven't done a damn thing for us.  The TSA never caught one damn terrorist, not one.  All the wars we fought, they have all probably only made the problem worse.


Next time try reading the link and you won't look like such an idiot.
Are Tall Buildings Safer As a Result of the NIST WTC Reports? Washington's Blog


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## SAYIT (Jan 9, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


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Garbage in/Garbage out.

Doubling down on your admittedly "specious at best" (and ridiculous at worst) anaolgy by linking FruitLoops Ryan at equally FruitLoops "Washington's Blog" is as lame as it is useless.

Ryan was fired from UL not for whistle-blowing, as claimed, but because he *"expressed his own opinions as though they were institutional opinions and beliefs of UL." - Paul Baker, UL spokesman*

At the root of every 9/11CT claim seems to be a lie usually "substantiated" by more lies.

What we have here is another of your futile attempts to cover your silliness with more silliness (see: First Rule of the Hole).

Frankly I can't save you from your need to dive into every 9/11 CT wabbit hole but I would remind you again all you ever seem to come up with is wabbit droppings.


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## Gamolon (Jan 12, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> it's just so absurd to think that the fuel in those planes took down those towers.


It wasn't "just jet fuel". What about the impact damage to the perimeter and core columns?


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## SAYIT (Jan 12, 2016)

Gamolon said:


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Not one of these 9/11 CTs is interested in the facts or the truth. They simply post their lies, ignore the facts and slither away only to return in weeks or months to post the exact same lies.

Beale has made that same claim a dozen times in my years here, had the truth posted in response, and has posted the same retort (below) a dozen times:

............... (cue the crickets) ..............


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## Capstone (Jan 12, 2016)

Congrats on riling up the OCTards, Crusader.  I'm guessing there are 3 tons of ass to be kicked in this thread (and that's a conservative estimate); but take it from someone who's been there and done that: it ain't worth it.

There are bigger fish to fry in the here and now, Bro. Focusing too heavily on the past is not a recipe for success in understanding what's being done in the present to 'We the Peons' ... and by whom.

My $.02 .


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## MisterBeale (Jan 13, 2016)

Capstone said:


> Congrats on riling up the OCTards, Crusader.  I'm guessing there are 3 tons of ass to be kicked in this thread (and that's a conservative estimate); but take it from someone who's been there and done that: it ain't worth it.
> 
> There are bigger fish to fry in the here and now, Bro. Focusing too heavily on the past is not a recipe for success in understanding what's being done in the present to 'We the Peons' ... and by whom.
> 
> My $.02 .


Agreed.


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## Gamolon (Jan 13, 2016)

Capstone said:


> My $.02 .


Not even worth that much...


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## Capstone (Jan 13, 2016)

Gamolon said:


> Capstone said:
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At least my take on things hasn't carried a negative balance for the past 14-some years.


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## Dale Smith (Jan 14, 2016)

To those that know that 9/11/01 was a false flag event, don't let the naysayers get you down. They are not bad people nor are they stupid....they are simply not ready to accept that things are not what they seem. If everyone could only understand how badly we have been used and abused by the power elites, there would be a march on D.C with torches and pitchforks...of course the shadow government that really calls the shots wouldn't be affected but they would get the message. People need to wake up and understand that there are people running our lives and playing us for suckers that don't give a shit about us....it's strictly business. I am saying that it is time that we stand up and tell them that we don't want to play their rigged game anymore.


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## Skylar (Jan 14, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> To those that know that 9/11/01 was a false flag event, don't let the naysayers get you down. They are not bad people nor are they stupid....they are simply not ready to accept that things are not what they seem.



More accurately, we're unwilling to accept your version of events because they don't match the evidence, are overwhelmingly contradicted by the evidence and are ludicrously complicated and fantastically elaborate. Which fails a test of logic known as Occam's Razor.


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## MisterBeale (Jan 14, 2016)

Skylar said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > To those that know that 9/11/01 was a false flag event, don't let the naysayers get you down. They are not bad people nor are they stupid....they are simply not ready to accept that things are not what they seem.
> ...










*Pro-official story*_ – American Airlines Flight 77, hijacked by Islamic terrorists, hits the Pentagon, killing 125 employees along with 64 people on the plane. _


*Anti-official story*_ – A complicated conspiracy involving dozens if not hundreds of government people was employed to create the illusion that a passenger plane hit the Pentagon when in fact it did not. Explosions were set off inside the building and a passenger plane flew past the Pentagon as the outer wall exploded._


Using Occam’s Razor, the first one must be true, right? It’s clearly simpler. But let’s take a closer look at the inevitability of the official story when a few more details are included:


_ A group of Islamic terrorists slipped through airport security with knives and box cutters, which they then used to take control of Flight 77, even though the Flight Data Recorder indicated that the cockpit door never opened during the flight. With just these crude weapons, the hijackers herded everyone, including the crew, into the back of the plane. The pilots were somehow prevented from dialing a four-digit code indicating to air traffic controllers that a hijack was in progress. _


_One of the hijackers, a failed flight student who had been refused rental of a Cessna a month earlier because of his poor piloting skills, took over. He flew several hundred miles west without being detected by radar, pulled a 180-degree turn and headed back to Washington. No fighters were able to intercept this or any of the other three hijacked planes that day. _


_Then, instead of simply flying straight into the Pentagon and doing maximum damage, he initiated an incredibly difficult 330-degree spiral to hit the building on the one side that would result in very few casualties. The plane hit the building, making a small hole, and then completely disappeared into the building. There was minimal damage to the building’s facade, including where the plane’s engines and tail section would have hit. The plane hit the first floor of the building but caused no damage to the lawn. _


_The plane travelled at 530 mph even though professional pilots will tell you that it is physically impossible to fly at that speed just a few feet above the ground. No airplane part that could positively be tied to Flight 77 was found. Photos of the damaged section of the building show that columns that would have to have been destroyed for the plane to completely enter the building are still intact._


Suddenly the official story isn’t so simple after all. True, the “inside job” theory is extremely complex and would involve many things going according to plan, but it doesn’t break the laws of physics several times the way the official account does.


The other thing to keep in mind through all of this is that when one story (the official one) is unquestioningly accepted by the media, all the onus is on those who disagree with the government account to prove _it_ to be false. All contrary versions have to be measured against the official story, which itself doesn’t have to be proved; it is taken for granted.
How Occam’s Razor can be twisted to serve “the official story”


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## Skylar (Jan 14, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> Skylar said:
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The conspiracy version of events is wildly more complex, involving hundreds if not thousands of people in a perfect conspiracy that has never been broken, ever. The Pentagon had to be involved, the FBI would have to be in on it, Congrss would have to be in on it, explosives had to be planted, all the people on the plane who were lost, their families, the FAA, the local fire departments, the folks who died in the pentagon and their families, the radar records would have to be faked, the black boxes, all the evidence would have to be planted, reports faked...both inside the US government and outside it. As the ASCE did its own study of the impact and found it was perfectly consistent with a plane impact. 

And then there all the people who saw the plane. This didn't happen in some remote location, but in broad daylight with Flight 77 flying over I-395 in the middle of a traffic jam. ALL of those witnesses would have to be faked as well. 

*All of them, tens of thousands of people, would have to be in the conspiracy, all with perfect secrecy for nearly 15 years and counting.* And of course, without evidence of any of your conspiracy actually happening.

*That's ludicrously complicated. *Contradicted by overwhelming evidence. And without any credible factual basis. While a plane crashed into the building is far, far simpler and matches the evidence.

That's why folks don't buy the truther conspiracy. Its just a stupidly awful explanation of events.


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## MisterBeale (Jan 14, 2016)

Skylar said:


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I love how you decide what the conspiracy is, and how it worked for those who don't believe the official story.  What a complete and total hoot.

For most that understand the NIST findings and the 9/11 committee report are complete and utter horseshit, they haven't got a clue what happened.

But YOU, oh YOU have got it all figured out, how it must have happened and why, if it happened that way, it must be complete crap.

No wonder you have to believe the official story.  The alternative you have constructed in your head is so absurd, it's a complete riot.

It's clear, that on this topic, you just don't know what you are talking about.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compartmentalization_(information_security)

Classified information in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia






With these techniques, they can make 99% of the official story match the conspiracy, so those who have been compartmentalized would have no idea and not be any bit the wiser.


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## MisterBeale (Jan 14, 2016)

Here's an example, the smoking gun if you will, of compartmentalization. . . 

Mineta's Presidential Emergency Operations Center (PEOC) testimony was also edited out of the 9/11 Commission video archive.
When questioned about this, representatives at the National Archive stated that the video may have been lost because of a 'snafu'. Following is a brief summary of the scrubbed video along with links to recently obtained C-SPAN video.

Mineta responds to an opening question by Commissioner Hamilton about the events in the PEOC and an alleged shoot down order. He describes a conversation between Cheney and a young man: 

Mineta: "During the time that the airplane was coming into the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President...the plane is 50 miles out...the plane is 30 miles out....and when it got down to the plane is 10 miles out, the young man also said to the vice president "do the orders still stand?" And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said "Of course the orders still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary!??"


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## Dale Smith (Jan 14, 2016)

And of course this power was given to Cheney in June of 2001.


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## SAYIT (Jan 15, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> Skylar said:
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Say What?
*
You* posted the "Pro" and "Anti" positions and Sky responded to your "anti" position:

"_A complicated conspiracy involving dozens if not hundreds of government people was employed to create the illusion that a passenger plane hit the Pentagon when in fact it did not. Explosions were set off inside the building and a passenger plane flew past the Pentagon as the outer wall exploded."
_
Whatever is the current CT rage amongst the ragtag remnants of the 9/11 "Truth" Movement, it likely pales when compared to the official version and that has been the case for every 9/11 CT since the first one hit the market ... about 15 minutes after the 2nd Tower fell.

Or, as Sky put it:

"More accurately, we're unwilling to accept your version of events because they don't match the evidence, are overwhelmingly contradicted by the evidence and are ludicrously complicated and fantastically elaborate." - Skylar

Not to mention downright impossible. Please start by explaining how the extensive demo rigging - which could not possibly have been done without notice - survived the chaotic and very hot fires caused by the "planes that did not exist."

9/11 conspiracy theories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Skylar (Jan 15, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


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Laughing.....wait, you *haven't* told us 'what the conspiracy is'?

Can I take it from that little blunder that your ilk don't handle criticism well? Because you ignored virtually every point made, pretending none of it existed. Yet it did. For your conspiracy to work, ALL of these people had to be in on it:

The FBI.
The first reponders. Both cops and fire fighters.
The US Military.
The Pentagon.
All the witnesses on I-395
The FAA.
The American Society of Civil Engineers.
All of the air traffic controllers at both Reagan and Dulles airports.
The NIST
American Airlines.
The people who died in the plane crash.
The families of those who died in the plane crash.
The people who died in the Pentagon.
The families of those who died in the Pentagon.
All the folks who planted the bombs in the Pentagon.

Thousands upon thousands of people just joining together spontaneously in the most stupidly complicated, wildly elaborate conspiracy in the history of mankind. Which they've maintained with perfect secrecy for almost 15 years.

OR....

_........the plane just crashed into the Pentagon. _

Occam's Razor and the evidence definitely picks a side. And its not yours. Your explanation is a piss poor, half assed account that makes no sense, is insanely complicated, is contradicted by overwhelming evidence, and supported by virtually nothing.

*That.* That right there, is why folks don't believe the silly Truther conspiracy. Its just stupidly awful at explaining what happened.


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## MisterBeale (Jan 15, 2016)

Skylar said:


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You ignored my last post, so I'll ignore this one.


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## MisterBeale (Jan 15, 2016)

SAYIT said:


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I don't have a "version" of events.  I only know the official version is bunk.


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## Godboy (Jan 15, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


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That's what I would say if I was badly losing a debate. Run away conspiracy man, run away.


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## Skylar (Jan 15, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


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You know jack shit. Your conspiracy is one of the stupidest, most fantastically elaborate pieces of pseudo-intellectual nonsense I've ever heard. Literally THOUSANDS upon thousands of people, all spontaneously coming together to form the most perfect, wildly complex conspiracy in the history of mankind?

Maintaining perfect secrecy for almost _15 years_?

Um, no. You can't support your claims factually, there's overwhelming evidence contradicting you, your claims make absolutely no sense, and they're uselessly complicated for particular reason.

This is why your conspiracy just isn't taken seriously.


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## MisterBeale (Jan 15, 2016)

Skylar said:


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So tell me then, what is "my conspiracy?"


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## Dale Smith (Jan 15, 2016)

Skylar said:


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## Skylar (Jan 15, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


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Any variant of the Truther conspiracy that posits that flight 77 didn't crash into the Pentagon. The 'official version' is that Flight 77 did crash into the Pentagon. Which you insist you 'know' didn't happen.

The evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that it did.


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## Dale Smith (Jan 15, 2016)

Skylar said:


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No, it's the lack of evidence that is of concern....like how they have never released footage of the alleged attack except for 4 frames that you can't make out what it is that hits the building.


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## Skylar (Jan 15, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


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The obvious problem Mr. "Nothing can ever convince me' is that you assume that there is video of the plane hitting the pentagon that isn't being released. But you have nothing to factually back that assumption. You merely believe it to be so....because nothing can ever convince you. And your assumption is irrational. As the the frame rate on the cameras filming an area including the impact zone were entirely too slow to capture the impacting plane.

So you have an irrational assumption backed by nothing. And on this alone, you ignore overwhelming evidence affirming that the plane hit the Pentagon.

Parts consistent with a Boeing 757 being pulled from the Pentagon crash site.
Parts consistent with a Boeing 757-223, the exact model that American Airlines used for Flight 77, being pulled from Pentagon the crash site.
Both voice and data flight recorders from Flight 77 pulled from the Pentagon crash site.
The bodies of passengers and crew from flight 77 pulled from the Pentagon crash site.
Damage consistent with an impact from a boeing 757 at the Pentagon crash site.
Dozens if not hundreds of witnesses who saw a plane consistent with FLight 77 flying toward or impacting the Pentagon
Debris consistent with American Airlines flight 77 strewn around the crash site.
Radar records tracking Flight 77 flying toward the Pentagon, with the plane being tracked crashing at that exact site.

*....and the list of overwhelming evidence affirming that Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon. And you ignore every last bit of it, without exception.* Why would you do this? You explained it to me the first time we talked:

"Nothing will ever convince me"

But why would a rational person ignore the mountains of evidence confirming Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon? They wouldn't. And they overwhelmingly don't. As the alternative theories given by Truthers are stupidly complicated, horrible explanations of the events, backed by jack shit, and contradicted by overwhelming evidence.

While Flight 77 crashing into the Pentagon is simple and overwhelming supported by evidence. Occam's Razor, my friend. It cuts your theory to ribbons.


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## Dale Smith (Jan 15, 2016)

Skylar said:


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Dozens of witnesses said they heard explosions in the basements of both WTC 1 and 2...why is their testimony not credible but the ones that claim they say a  plane hit the Pentagon are? Where are the wings to the airliner? They certainly didn't go through that small hole and if they were knocked off on the way into the building, how was this amateur pilot able to steer it?
Why is there not a scratch on the Pentagon lawn since this alleged airliner came in on a flat trajectory? 1,500 pics and not one seat cushion or piece of luggage in any of them? Why were there so many war games going on that day while leaving only two fighter jets to protect the east coast? The Pentagon has the most secured airspace in the world but yet an amateur pilot beat their system? Dick Cheney gave stand down orders: 

MR. HAMILTON: We thank you for that. I wanted to focus just a moment on the Presidential Emergency Operating Center. You were there for a good part of the day. I think you were there with the vice president. And when you had that order given, I think it was by the president, that authorized the shooting down of commercial aircraft that were suspected to be controlled by terrorists, were you there when that order was given? 

MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" 2


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## Skylar (Jan 15, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


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Ah, Conspiracy Whacka-mole!

I ask you questions about the Pentagon....so you switch to WTC 1 and 2. And if I address WTC 1 and 2 you switch to WTC 7. And when I address WTC 7, you switch to the Pentagon.

*If your argument had actual merit, you wouldn't need to run everytime I pointed out the truck sized holes in yoru claims. *Again, the evidence confirming that Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon is absolutely overwhelming:

Parts consistent with a Boeing 757 being pulled from the Pentagon crash site.
Parts consistent with a Boeing 757-223, the exact model that American Airlines used for Flight 77, being pulled from Pentagon the crash site.
Both voice and data flight recorders from Flight 77 pulled from the Pentagon crash site.
The bodies of passengers and crew from flight 77 pulled from the Pentagon crash site.
Damage consistent with an impact from a boeing 757 at the Pentagon crash site.
Dozens if not hundreds of witnesses who saw a plane consistent with FLight 77 flying toward or impacting the Pentagon
Debris consistent with American Airlines flight 77 strewn around the crash site.
Radar records tracking Flight 77 flying toward the Pentagon, with the plane being tracked crashing at that exact site.
*
You ignore all of this evidence.....and then make up your own story, backed by jack shit.* And contradicted by the actual evidence. *How do you account for *all* of the evidence contradicting you? *If you want to be taken seriously, you need to have a credible, factual accounting that explains all the actual evidence. 

And you can't. Your story is stupidly complicated and a simply awful explanation of the events.  All you can do is ignore the evidence and pretend that because you ignored it, it disappears. But it doesn't disappear. Its still there....contradicting you.

*Which is exactly why the Truther conspiracy isn't taken seriously*. Even you don't take your bullshit seriously. As when faced with the evidence....you change the topic.


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## Dale Smith (Jan 15, 2016)

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No, I askted legitimate questions about the Pentagon. You seem to be only interested in eye witnesses at the Pentagon that saw a plane but not the witnesses of people and fire-fighters that heard explosions in the basement and lower floors. WTC 7 collapse is a slam dunk as far as I am concerned that it was a planned demolition. In some videos you can see the charges going off and you have Silverstein say they decided to "pull it" which
  is a demolition term. The only problem with that is how did they put the explosives put in place? A demolition takes a few weeks to plan. Nothing is going to convince you and that's fine. It's your whining about people that question this false flag event that is amusing.


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## Skylar (Jan 15, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


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No, you're running.* Your theory doesn't work. You have no credible explanation for the mountains of evidence that you ignore. *You can't offer us any explanation that takes into account the ACTUAL evidence....that isn't stupidly complicated, wildly complex, baseless, and contradicted by OTHER evidence.

*Your entire argument is ignoring the evidence. *ANd then running every time I ask you to give me a credible reason why a rational person would ignore the same. And you have no such reason.

Why would a rational person ignore the bodies of Flight 77 passengers and crew being pulled from the Pentagon?

Why would a rational person ignore the radar data tracking Flight 77? Your *own* account of Cheney *relies* on that tracking data. Yet you ignore it utterly. How irrational is that?

Why would a rational person ignore the debris consistent with an American Airlines 757-223 at the crash site......not only the exact plane, with American Airline colors, but the exact model that American Airlines used?

Why would a rational person ignore the dozens and *dozens* of witnesses that either watched the impact of the plane or watched it fly immediately over I-395 before hitting the Pentagon?

If your argument had merit, you wouldn't have to run from these basic, simple questions. Yet you run every single time.



> You seem to be only interested in eye witnesses at the Pentagon that saw a plane but not the witnesses of people and fire-fighters that heard explosions in the basement and lower floors. WTC 7 collapse is a slam dunk as far as I am concerned that it was a planned demolition. In some videos you can see the charges going off and you have Silverstein say they decided to "pull it" which
> is a demolition term. The only problem with that is how did they put the explosives put in place? A demolition takes a few weeks to plan. Nothing is going to convince you and that's fine. It's your whining about people that question this false flag event that is amusing.



Conspiracy Whack-a-mole isn't gonna help you now, Dale.

We're talking about the Pentagon. And you're running desperately from that discussion. And we both know why:

*You can't credibly explain away the *mountains* of evidence you're ignoring. *You know that any 'alternative theory' that you could offer us is wildly irrational, stupidly complicated, backed by jack shit, and contradicted by overwhelming evidence.

So you're avoiding a discussion of the evidence like it was on fire. And demonstrating why the Truther conspiracy just isn't taken seriously. As even its adherents can't polish that turd of an explanation. And abandon it the moment its challenged.

Exactly as you're doing right now. Nothing will ever convince you, indeed.


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## Dale Smith (Jan 16, 2016)

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Not ducking anything and I haven't seen a mountain of evidence that lets your beloved "gubermint" off the hook.  This wasn't a series of unfortunate events, this wasn't due to incompetence. This was a very compartmentalized false flag event with a huge agenda. They had the Patriot Act written in advance and all the mechanisms in place for this spy grid ready to go...all they needed was a new "Pearl Harbor" and that is what 9/11/01 accomplished.


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## Dale Smith (Jan 16, 2016)

I came across an old post on FB I wish to share......

Al qaeda was a CIA invention which translated means "the base" i.e a computer base of operatives trained and funded by the CIA that were also called the "mujahideen" in Afghanistan in 1979 to fight a proxy war in Afghanistan. They were supported and urged on by Zbigniew Brzezinski, a globalist and proponent of a New World Order. Zbigniew was Jimmy Carter's National Security adviser as well as the organizer of the Trilateral Commission, one of three "think tank" groups that REALLY set policy. Osama Bin Laden's CIA name was Tim Osman and he died of marfan's syndrome in late 2001. He was even treated in July of 2001 at a military hospital in Dubai and this was confirmed by Dr.Steve Pieczenik who was deputy assistant secretary of state under Henry Kissinger, Cyrus Vance and James Baker. His expertise includes foreign policy, international crisis management and psychological warfare. He served the presidential administrations of Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush in the capacity of deputy assistant secretary . SO bin laden lasting another 10 years with a terminal disease with no cure and having to be on kidney dialysis is pretty ludicrous. The CIA funded "al qaeda" admitting to the events of 9/11 are actually funny to me now. My theory is that the plane that went down in Pennsylvania was actually headed to NYC and building 7. The SEC, FBI, CIA and NSA had field offices containing sensitive information on an ongoing investigation into securities and corporate fraud that had they been allowed to go forward, would have put a lot of high profile people in jail. 

One of the crimes that the SEC was investigating was a black op funded by the "Black Eagle Trust Fund" to crush the ruble in September of 1991 by destabilizing it using a complex international network of banks and holding companies mostly have to do with oil and natural gas....... and the ten year window to cash 240 billion dollars in bonds was closing.... oddly enough, 9/12/01 was the last day that the Black Eagle Trust could try and pass it through but in order to do that, it would have to pass the "sniff test" of the Security Exchange Commission that already had them on their radar. After 9/11, 240 billion dollars of covert securities had to be electronically cleared without scrutiny and that was able to happen when the Federal Reserve declared an emergency and invoked its “emergency powers” that very afternoon. The Office of Naval Intelligence was also investigating this.... as well as the missing 2.3 TRILLION dollars that Donald Rumsfeld said the Pentagon could not account for in a press briefing on 9/10/01. Their offices were on the side of the Pentagon that was hit by the missile (no, not a plane) and destroyed all evidence and ended any further investigation.This was a deliberate act to destroy evidence. There are MANY things that do not add up or should pass any kind of sniff test....like people on the ground hearing multiple explosions, the free fall of the buildings with no resistance, etc, etc....

On November 1, 2001, President George W. Bush, issued Executive Order 13233 on the basis of “national security” and concealed the records of past presidents, especially his father’s activities. Consequently, those records are no longer accessible to the public.


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## Dale Smith (Jan 16, 2016)

Let's play a game called "Which One Is Scarier?"

Scenario #1 19 muslim extremists armed with nothing but box cutter blades taking down the Pentagon and out-witting NORAD while performing incredible aeronautic maneuvers with limited flight training after a night of doing cocaine and drinking at a strip joint.....

Scenario #2 That 260 BILLION Federal Reserve Notes per year spent on just the NSA and the North American Aerospace Defense Command that couldn't intercept any of the hijacked planes.

Scenario #3 High rise buildings collapsing due to kerosene based jet fuel that could never melt steel beam supports encased in concrete even if they burned for weeks.......


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## Skylar (Jan 17, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Skylar said:
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You've done nothing but ducking. You're in a full rout, refusing to discus the evidence. You reject the 'official story', but when I challenge you to give me a rational reason WHY you reject the specific evidence.......you change the topic.

I ask you about the bodies of the passengers and crew from Flight 77 being pulled from the crash site in the Pentagon. And you babble about Larry Silverstein.

I ask you about the wreckage consistent with an American Airlines 757-223 was pulled Pentagon......and you babble about WTC 7.

I ask you about the very radar records that *you're* citing as evidence affirming that Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon........and you babble about explosions in the basement of the World Trade center.

You starkly refuse to address the evidence. Every time I mention it, you flee. Every time I bring it up, you give us another excuse why you can't address it. Your entire conspiracy is an 'Emperor's New Clothes' parable. As the *moment* we demand you address the evidence and note you can't back your narrative with jack shit....

..........your entire story is abandoned. And you run.



> This wasn't a series of unfortunate events, this wasn't due to incompetence. This was a very compartmentalized false flag event with a huge agenda. They had the Patriot Act written in advance and all the mechanisms in place for this spy grid ready to go...all they needed was a new "Pearl Harbor" and that is what 9/11/01 accomplished.



So I ask you about how both of the black boxes from Flight 77 were pulled from the Pentagon.....and you start babbling about Pearl Harbor.

Laughing....even YOU can't make your bullshit work. The moment I challenge you on the evidence, you abandon your conspiracy and run. As we both know your narrative is stupidly complicated, uselessly elaborate, backed by jack shit, and contradicted by overwhelming evidence.

What else can you do but run?


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## Skylar (Jan 17, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> I came across an old post on FB I wish to share......
> 
> Al qaeda was a CIA invention which translated means "the base" i.e a computer base of operatives trained and funded by the CIA that were also called the "mujahideen" in Afghanistan in 1979 to fight a proxy war in Afghanistan. They were supported and urged on by Zbigniew Brzezinski, a globalist and proponent of a New World Order. Zbigniew was Jimmy Carter's National Security adviser as well as the organizer of the Trilateral Commission, one of three "think tank" groups that REALLY set policy. Osama Bin Laden's CIA name was Tim Osman and he died of marfan's syndrome in late 2001. He was even treated in July of 2001 at a military hospital in Dubai and this was confirmed by Dr.Steve Pieczenik who was deputy assistant secretary of state under Henry Kissinger, Cyrus Vance and James Baker. His expertise includes foreign policy, international crisis management and psychological warfare. He served the presidential administrations of Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush in the capacity of deputy assistant secretary . SO bin laden lasting another 10 years with a terminal disease with no cure and having to be on kidney dialysis is pretty ludicrous. The CIA funded "al qaeda" admitting to the events of 9/11 are actually funny to me now. My theory is that the plane that went down in Pennsylvania was actually headed to NYC and building 7. The SEC, FBI, CIA and NSA had field offices containing sensitive information on an ongoing investigation into securities and corporate fraud that had they been allowed to go forward, would have put a lot of high profile people in jail.
> 
> ...



Laughing....back to conspiracy Whack-a-mole, huh? Its not going to help, Dale. As each time you spam, each time you give me excuses why you can't address the evidence, each time you run with your tail tucked between your legs.......you only demonstrate my point:

*Your explanation of events is awful. Its spectacularly stupid, wildly irrational, fantastically complicated, factually baseless and overwhelmingly contradicted by evidence.* Which is why when I ask you specific questions about the evidence.......you desperately try to change the topic to *anything* else. Anything but the evidence:

Parts consistent with a Boeing 757 being pulled from the Pentagon crash site.
Parts consistent with a Boeing 757-223, the exact model that American Airlines used for Flight 77, being pulled from Pentagon the crash site.
Both voice and data flight recorders from Flight 77 pulled from the Pentagon crash site.
The bodies of passengers and crew from flight 77 pulled from the Pentagon crash site.
Damage consistent with an impact from a boeing 757 at the Pentagon crash site.
Dozens if not hundreds of witnesses who saw a plane consistent with FLight 77 flying toward or impacting the Pentagon
Debris consistent with American Airlines flight 77 strewn around the crash site.
Radar records tracking Flight 77 flying toward the Pentagon, with the plane being tracked crashing at that exact site.
The American Society of Civil Engineers study of the damage and debris at the crash site finding that the damage to the Pentagon was consisted with the impact from a 757.

*You ignore all of it.* That's all your conspiracy is: ignoring the evidence. And then offering a stupidly awful conspiracy account instead. One that simply makes no sense.

*Dale........you're not willing to deal with the evidence. You can't handle reality.* You've constructed this elaborate fantasy because its emotionally easier for you to process your insanely complicated delusion than deal with the actual facts of the situation.

But the world doesn't disappear just because you close your eyes, Dale. And the facts don't magically change to match your fantasy just because you're unprepared and unwilling to face reality. Get used to the idea.


----------



## Skylar (Jan 17, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Let's play a game called "Which One Is Scarier?"
> 
> Scenario #1 19 muslim extremists armed with nothing but box cutter blades taking down the Pentagon and out-witting NORAD while performing incredible aeronautic maneuvers with limited flight training after a night of doing cocaine and drinking at a strip joint.....



And how did they 'outwit NORAD'. NORAD monitors Air Intercept Defense Zones, protecting our nation from foreign warplanes seeking to enter our airspace.

Tell me, Dale.....how many of the planes used in 911 hit targets in the Air Intercept Defense Zones that NORAD monitors? 

And tell me, Dale....what's this? 







What are those gray zones, Dale? And what would be their relevance in your claims that the hijackers 'outwitted' NORAD? 

Remember, Dale.....you don't actually know what the fuck you're talking about.


----------



## Dale Smith (Jan 17, 2016)

Skylar said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Skylar said:
> ...



No bodies were pulled from the Pentagon as it was reported that they were burnt beyond recognition and could not be recovered....how convenient.


----------



## Dale Smith (Jan 17, 2016)

Skylar said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Let's play a game called "Which One Is Scarier?"
> ...




Pilots for 9/11 Truth has reported that the data stream from the flight data recorder (FDR) for American Airlines flight 77, which allegedly struck the Pentagon on 9/11, shows that the cockpit door never opened during the entire 90 minute flight. The data was provided by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), which has refused to comment. 

The FDR is one of two “black boxes” in every commercial airliner, which are used after accidents to help determine the cause of a crash. One black box records flight data, the other records voice data (everything said in the cockpit during the flight). With those two sets of data, NTSB investigators can usually piece together the events that led to a crash. The status of the door to the cockpit is checked every four seconds throughout a flight and relayed as a simple 0 or 1, where 0=closed and 1=open, with approximately 1,300 door status checks performed during AA77’s 90 minute flight. Every one of those door status checks shows as a 0, indicating that the door to the cockpit never opened during the entire flight. 

Accident investigators monitor the cockpit door with the FDR because it may yield clues to pilot error in a crash. The FDR begins recording once the pilots are in their seats and readying for takeoff, and the plane cannot take off unless the FDR is working. 

The official story about flight 77 is that five Muslim terrorists brandishing box cutters forced their way into the cockpit and herded two pilots, four flight attendants and all the passengers to the back of the plane. This story came into being via Ted Olson, US Solicitor General, who told CNN — that he received two phone calls from his wife Barbara Olson, a passenger on the doomed flight. Ted Olson’s story changed several times. Sometimes he claimed that the calls from his wife were made from seat back phones, other times that she used her cell phone. 

According to American Airlines customer service, the American Airlines maintenance manual for that aircraft, and American Airlines Captain Ralph Kolstad, seatback phones on 757s had been deactivated prior to 9/11/01. (They were later removed entirely, as they never worked well.) 

Barbara Olson couldn’t have used a cell phone either: numerous 9/11 researchers, most notably David Ray Griffin, have pointed out that cell phones did not work on airplanes on 9/11. The speed and altitude of a commercial airliner both present overwhelming obstacles to a cell phone’s need to lock onto a cell tower and then hand off to another tower in a new location. 

It was the FBI that revealed the evidence that decisively disproves Ted Olson’s story. In the Zacarias Moussaoui trial in 2006, the FBI presented a report on the cell phone calls from all four 9/11 flights. Their report on AA77 shows that there was only one phone call from Barbara Olson, but that it was an unconnected call lasting zero seconds. So Ted Olson either lied about receiving calls from his wife or was deceived into believing he received calls from her. 

According to the UK Telegraph, Barbara Olson delayed her flight on 9/11 so that she could have breakfast with her husband on his birthday. That delay put her on the doomed flight. Ted Olson remarried in 2006 to tax attorney Lady Booth, whom he reportedly met the year after Barbara died. 

There are numerous oddities and contradictions about AA77’s black boxes. 

The government claims that the voice data recorder was damaged during the crash and that no usable data was retrieved from it. If true, this would be the first time in aviation history that a solid-state data recorder was destroyed during a crash. 

While it was widely reported in the media that the FDR for AA77 was found at 4 am on September 14, 2001, the file containing the FDR data was dated over four hours earlier. In other words, we are asked to believe that the data from the FDR was downloaded prior to the FDR being found.


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## Skylar (Jan 17, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



Says who? Remember, you routinely tell us utter bullshit. Remember 'Dr. Steve' who was in the CIA for 30 years, who had a 'top general' tell him how 911 was done? When we fact checked your claims, *it turns out the Dr. Steve Pieczenik never worked for the CIA. Let alone worked for the CIA for '30 years'.* Nor can Steve even name the 'top general' that told him how 911 was done. Nor back any portion of his story with the slightest evidence.

Nothing in your account checks out. 

*You don't fact check the horseshit you repeat, Dale. Making you an unreliable source. *So.....you'll need to factually demonstrate that no bodies were pulled from the Pentagon. As you merely 'saying' it is so is meaningless. As you either lie, or routinely don't know what the fuck you're talking about.


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## Skylar (Jan 17, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Pilots for 9/11 Truth has reported that the data stream from the flight data recorder (FDR) for American Airlines flight 77, which allegedly struck the Pentagon on 9/11, shows that the cockpit door never opened during the entire 90 minute flight. The data was provided by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), which has refused to comment.
> 
> The FDR is one of two “black boxes” in every commercial airliner, which are used after accidents to help determine the cause of a crash. One black box records flight data, the other records voice data (everything said in the cockpit during the flight). With those two sets of data, NTSB investigators can usually piece together the events that led to a crash. The status of the door to the cockpit is checked every four seconds throughout a flight and relayed as a simple 0 or 1, where 0=closed and 1=open, with approximately 1,300 door status checks performed during AA77’s 90 minute flight. Every one of those door status checks shows as a 0, indicating that the door to the cockpit never opened during the entire flight.
> 
> ...



More Conspiracy Whack-a-mole!

Instead of answer any of my questions about the ADIZ, explain how NORAD could have been 'outwitted' by the hijackers when the area that NORAD monitors is OUTSIDE the United States.....you switch topics again. How did I know that was coming?

I'm going to go through this thread and make a list of all the claims you've made....and then abandoned, Dale. But since your rout is at least remotely relevant to the
David Griffith, professional conspiracy theorist, insists that cell phone calls can't be made from planes. The FBI, AT&T, Airfone, the company that ran the phones on the planes, and the actual phone records demonstrate that calls could be made.

Here's the Freedom of Information request for FBI interviews with AT&T, where the company contacted the FBI to report that they were getting calls from a woman claiming to be hijacked and transfering them to Ted Olson's number at the woman's request.



> Teresa Gonzalez, operator for AT&T Services AT&T, telephonically contacted the Federal Bureau of Investigation FBI to report an emergency phone call received by AT&T. After being advised of the identity of the interviewing agent and the nature of the interview, she provided the following information:
> 
> Mercy Lorenzo, also an operator with AT&T, received a call from a female passenger on flight 77 requesting to be transferred to telephone number 202514-2201. The female passenger advised the plane was being hi-jacked. Hi-jackers were ordering passengers to move to the back of the plane and were armed with guns and knives. Lorenzo indicated the pilot might not yet be aware of the take over of the plane.
> 
> ...



Here's the interview with her husband's secretary at the Solicitor Generals office:



> Lori Lynn Keyton, Secretary, Department of Justice (DOJ), Washington, D.C., telephone number (202) [redacted, date of birth [redacted] was contacted telephonically at her residence through the DOJ Command Center at (202) 514-5000. After being advised of the identity of the interviewing agent and the nature of the interview, Keyton provided the following information:
> 
> Keyton was working in Ted Olson's Office this morning. She is regularly called there to cover the telephones. At approximately 9:00am, she received a series of approximately six (6) to eight (8) collect telephone calls. Each of the calls was an automated collect call. There was a recording advising of the collect call and requesting she hold for an operator. A short time later another recording stated that all operators were busy, please hang up and try your call later.
> 
> ...



With Ted Olsen also confirming that the person on the line was his wife.

Here's the Airfone records from Flight 77 with 4 outgoing calls. Call you insist could never be made. Calls Airfone affirms were. Here's the first attempt, that didn't connect.






Call #2. This one did connect. Note that per Airfone, the customer dialed the operator. Matching the account of AT&T exactly.






With 3 other calls after that. All contradicting your account. Here's the FBI's records on *all* calls from Flight 77:

http://911myths.com/images/7/78/FBI_compilation_re_Flight_77_calls.pdf

See how I did that? I made a claim and I offered the source.

Oh, and Dale....if you're just going to cut and paste articles that you've never read nor fact checked, at least give us the courtesy of citing your sources. As here's your argument, verbatim. _Written by someone else. _

Flight 77 Cockpit Door Never Opened During 9/11 “Hijack"

Which you already know. But really hope we never found out.


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## Skylar (Jan 17, 2016)

So....your claim that no bodies were pulled out of the Pentagon....abandoned.
Your claim that the hijackers 'outwitted NORAD'....abandoned.
Your claim about Dr. Steve 'working at the CIA for 30 years'........abandoned.

I'm just gonna keep adding to this list as I peruse the wasteland that is the claims  you've made.....and then run from when they were challenged.

Sounds like its time for another game of 'Conspiracy Whack-a-mole'!


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## Dale Smith (Jan 17, 2016)

Obviously they did outwit NORAD or NORAD stood down...take your pick. 
 North American Air Defense Command  (NORAD) is responsible for monitoring our skies.The Continental NORAD Region (CONR) is the component of NORAD that provides airspace surveillance and control and directs air sovereignty activities for the Contiguous United States (CONUS).
 No bodies of those on the plane were recovered....claimed that it only took them a couple of months to identify the alleged remains they recovered using DNA testing which is ludicrous to say the least. 184 out of 187 identified at a military base no less ...allegedly.

As far as Dr. Steve Piecneznik is concerned, he worked in intelligence and counter-intelligence with many, many reliable contacts. When I have heard him interviewed, whichever host is doing the interviewing always attaches his name to the CIA. His resume is more impressive than just being CIA and he has more credibility and knows more than you or I.
*Dr. Steve Pieczenik* is a critically acclaimed author of psycho-political thrillers and the co-creator of the New York Times best-selling "Tom Clancy's Op-Center" and "Tom Clancy's Net Force" book series. He is also one of the world's most experienced international crisis managers and hostage negotiators. His novels are based on his twenty years experience in resolving international crises for five U.S. administrations.

Dr. Pieczenik received his B.A. from Cornell University,trained in Psychiatry at Harvard and has both an M.D. from Cornell University Medical College and a Ph.D. in International Relations from M.I.T. 

He was the first psychiatrist ever to receive a PhD. focusing on international relations, and is the only psychiatrist to ever have served as a Deputy Assistant Secretary of State. He served four presidents as Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under Nixon, Ford, Carter, and Bush Sr. and was a Senior Policy Planner under president Reagan. Dr. Pieczenik worked directly with, and reported directly to, Secretaries of State Henry Kissinger, Cyrus Vance, George Schultz and James Baker, as well as the respective White Houses. Dr. Pieczenik was drafted into the Vietnam War. He was assigned in the Public Health Services with the rank of Navy Captain (0-6) to run three psychiatric wards at St. Elizabeth's Hospital in Washington, D.C., including a ward where serial killers were housed. He was subsequently offered a promotion to Rear Admiral (0-7), which he refused on the grounds that he felt honored enough to serve his country, did not want to take a pension and wished to return to civilian life to follow his passions as a physician, entrepreneur and novelist.
*Dr. Pieczenik is an expert in psychological warfare, political psychology, regime change, intelligence, counterintelligence and covert operations. During his career as a senior State Department official, Dr. Pieczenik utilized his unique abilities and expertise to develop strategies and tactics that were instrumental in resolving major conflicts in Asia, the Middle East, Latin America, Europe and the United States.*
Dr. Pieczenik was the principal International Crisis Manager and Hostage Negotiator under Secretaries Kissinger and Vance. During this time he developed conflict resolution techniques that were instrumental in saving over five hundred hostages in different terrorist episodes, including the Hanafi Muslim Siege in Washington, DC, the TWA Croatian Hijacking, the Aldo Moro Kidnapping, the JRA Hijacking, the PLO Hijacking, and many other incidents involving terrorists such as Idi Amin, Muammar Quaddafi, Carlos, FARC, Abu Nidal and Saddam Hussein. Based on these experiences, Dr. Pieczenik, along with other senior officials at the State Department developed the mandate to create Delta Force and other quick-strike special forces units that could be used in future hostage situations and international crises. Dr. Pieczenik resigned over President Carter's handling of the Iran Hostage siege. He was recruited by Dr. Richard Solomon to the RAND Corporation in Santa Monica, CA to develop the strategy and tactics using the principles of psychological warfare to dismantle the Soviet Union without the use of military force. 

Keep reading what I post and perhaps you will eventually stop being a sheeple...one can only hope.


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## Skylar (Jan 17, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Obviously they did outwit NORAD or NORAD stood down...take your pick.
> North American Air Defense Command  (NORAD) is responsible for monitoring our skies.The Continental NORAD Region (CONR) is the component of NORAD that provides airspace surveillance and control and directs air sovereignty activities for the Contiguous United States (CONUS).



And the activities that you insist NORAD was 'outsmarted' in was intercepting the hijacked planes. Yet EVERY Air Defense Intercept Zone on 911....was *outside* the United States. NORAD didn't monitor the location of planes in domestic airspace. NORAD's radar network is focused outward, toward incoming foreign warplanes.* The only way NORAD knew that there was a hijacking is when the the FAA picked up a phone and told them.* The FAA didn't notify NORAD of hijackings until AFTER the first tower had already been hit. And only a minute before the second tower was hit.

Making your 'outwitted NORAD' account nonsense. NORAD doesn't track domestic flights within the US. Nor would they have anyway of telling one plane from another if their transponders were turned off.

Which was the case in every plane used in the 911 attacks.

So why would NORAD have intercepted hijackings they didn't know about, planes they weren't tracking in airspace outside their Air Defense Intercept Zones? Your entire basis of assumption is nonsense.



> No bodies of those on the plane were recovered....claimed that it only took them a couple of months to identify the alleged remains they recovered using DNA testing which is ludicrous to say the least. 184 out of 187 identified at a military base no less ...allegedly.



Says you. But when pressed to show us any source other than yourself that says this....you've got jack shit. Your entire argument is circular. Where you insist that there were no bodies pulled from the Pentagon....because you insist there were no bodies pulled from the Pentagon.

Why would a rational person ignore the ACSE report which shows the location of the bodies, ignore the autospies, ignore the identification of the bodies? Especially when you've got *jack shit* to back up any portion of your account. You have no rational reason to ignore the evidence. You simply do.

And this is why the Truthers aren't taken seriously. Their *entire* argument is to ignore the evidence. And even they can't give you a rational reason why.



> As far as Dr. Steve Piecneznik is concerned, he worked in intelligence and counter-intelligence with many, many reliable contacts. When I have heard him interviewed, whichever host is doing the interviewing always attaches his name to the CIA. His resume is more impressive than just being CIA and he has more credibility and knows more than you or I.



That's not what you said before. This was:



			
				Dale Smith said:
			
		

> Then there is the testimony of Dr Steve Pieczenik, who spent thirty years in the CIA that offered to testify in a Senate hearing that a General told him exactly how 9/11 was pulled off. He was also the first to reveal that Osama bin Laden died on December 13 2001 of Marfan's syndrome and had been visited in a military hospital in Dubai and debriefed by the CIA and other intel spooks in July of 2001. He only confirmed what I had already researched but he is definitely a credible source.



And NO WHERE in your entire bio does it even mention the CIA. Let alone Dr. Steve working in the CIA for 30 years. You fucking lied.

Nor can Dr. Steve even *name* the 'top general' he claims 'told him how 911 was pulled off'. Let alone back any of it with evidence. There is no part of your account above that checks out. As for 'knowing more than the rest of us', Steve Pieczenik hadn't worked for the State department since the late 1980s. He has no direct access to any of the sources he claims to cite, nor can he show us any evidence backing any portion of his account.

Once again, when we fact check your claims, they don't check out.

Shocker.



> Keep reading what I post and perhaps you will eventually stop being a sheeple...one can only hope.



Dale....even you don't buy your bullshit. As when I specifically question you about the evidence, you try and change the topic. You lie about your sources. And your sources can't back a damn thing they say. 

*You're simply not prepared to deal with the evidence. You prefer your stupidly elaborate conspiracy fantasy to reality. *And nothing can convince you. How do we know? You told us. You're mind is closed and you've committed to ignoring anything that contradicts your conspiracy fantasy.

I can show you the evidence, Dale. But I can't make you think.


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## Dale Smith (Jan 17, 2016)

Skylar said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Pilots for 9/11 Truth has reported that the data stream from the flight data recorder (FDR) for American Airlines flight 77, which allegedly struck the Pentagon on 9/11, shows that the cockpit door never opened during the entire 90 minute flight. The data was provided by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), which has refused to comment.
> ...



"At 8:20 AM, Flight 77 took off from Dulles International Airport, 10 minutes after its scheduled departure time. At 8:46, Flight 77 veered severely off course. At 8:50, the last radio communication was made from the pilots and air traffic control. At 8:56, the jet's transponder was shut off.  The pilots' last transmission was "ah direct FALMOUTH American seventy seven thanks." No radio communications from the flight indicated distress.'

Notice the times of the calls. 7:16 AM, 7:18 AM and 7 :19 AM. The times of the call do not line up with departure or alleged hijacking of the plane at all as Eastern standard time is given precedent over Pacific, Mountain and Central standard time.
BTW, it should have been obvious that I cut and pasted an article by Pilots for 9/11 truth given the different colored font. I thought I had posted the link but obviously something went askew. I was at work at the time and trying to keep up with the thread while having to go out and repair a machine.  I noticed that you are silent about the cockpit door never being opened.
(PilotsFor911Truth.org) – Newly decoded data provided by an independent researcher and computer programmer from Australia exposes alarming evidence that the reported hijacking aboard American Airlines Flight 77 was impossible to have existed. A data parameter labeled “FLT DECK DOOR”, cross checks with previously decoded data obtained by Pilots For 9/11 Truth from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) through the Freedom Of Information Act. Also, there have been 14 witnesses that claimed a jet flew over them and then flew over the Pentagon as there was an explosion. Look at the youtube video and tell me with a straight face that this is a plane.....




.


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## Dale Smith (Jan 17, 2016)

A real veteran pilot speaks.


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## Dale Smith (Jan 17, 2016)

Skylar said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Obviously they did outwit NORAD or NORAD stood down...take your pick.
> ...


 Dude, I was just like you for over a 11 years......I demonized and marginalized anyone that dared to question our beloved "gubermint" concerning 9/11/01. I would Google and search for any piece of propaganda that I could use in a lame attempt to refute evidence and questions that I never bothered to look at because I didn't want my neat little neocon world turned upside down....so spare me the bullshit, m'kay? I took the blinders off and I went through some really bad times personally where I went from being outgoing and personable to being a total recluse and not wanting to interact with anyone. I became obsessed with finding the truth not only about 9/11 but other events that have shaped this corporation's hold over us and I have a very good grasp on how dire our situation is...... and it doesn't bode well for any of us as it currently stands. I no longer believe in political affiliations because it only serves to divide us and trust me, the ones that really pull the strings have created a number of ways to keep us divided and bickering among each other.  You can throw out all the little diversions to your heart's content in hopes that I will stop posting about 9/11/01 but it's not gonna happen....read, learn, evolve. Things are not what you think they are and there is some really bad shit on the horizon unless there is a mass awakening.


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## Skylar (Jan 17, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



Dude, you haven't evolved. You've adopted a fantasy that is based on desperate, willful ignorance of the events. You can't handle reality. You can't handle the evidence. So you concoct an elaborate fantasy populated by characters that you can control. As they're products of your imagination. 

Dale, its not an uncommon thing for folks do. For some people, its hard to deal with the uncertainty and chaos of the real world. The idea that 19 guys could cause that much harm can be terrifying. And rather than acknowledge that vulnerability, rather than recognize that seeming randomness........folks like you would prefer that everything is actually under control. So they convince themselves of some elaborate conspiracies, where these events were all part of a ludicrously complicated plan by.....someone. Where every aspect of it was part of it was carefully calculated rather than out of our control.

As at least *someone* would be in control of everything. Even if you have to make them up.

Dale.......you've emotionally invented in this fantasy for so long that now you're as committed to the fantasy as you were commited to running away from the fear. But rationally, objectively......you fantasy is an awful explanation of the events. Its like seeing a fast food wrapper in the garbage....and concluding that the only possible explanation for it is vastly advanced alien civilization that traveled to earth to place it there, using mind control technology to plant false memories to convince the entire planet that 'McDonands' actually exists.

Or......maybe someone had a Big Mac. 

Your explanation is stupidly awful. As bad as mind controlling aliens placing a McDonald's wrapper in the garbage. Worse, actually. As your conspiracy requires the spontaneous complicity of 10s of thousands of people working in perfect secrecy and maintaining that secrecy for 15 years and counting.

We couldn't keep the secret of the nuclear bomb under wraps for that long. The US government is stupidly porous. We've seen from leak after leak, Snowdens and Mannings and Wikileaks, that we can't keep secrets that long. That our government lacks the competence to pull off the insanely complicated plot....let alone plan it and keep it secret for a decade and a half. Especially considering that most of it happened in open view of the public.

The evidence contradicting you is enormous. The holes in your logic, truck sized. And your claims don't make the slightest sense. Yet 'nothing can convince you', as you've already told us. Ignoring evidence and closing your mind isn't 'evolution, Dale. Its self deception.


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## Skylar (Jan 17, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



The times are local times for the Airfone network operation center in Illinois. And would correspond to 8:16 to 8:19 eastern standard time. All well within Flight 77.

The calls demonstrate the Airfone seat back phones were operational. And that calls could be made. Which you've explicitly said wasn't possible.....because the article on the internet from 'Sheila' said so. I'll take AT&T, Airfone, the FBI, and the victim's family over Sheila anyway.



> BTW, it should have been obvious that I cut and pasted an article by Pilots for 9/11 truth given the different colored font. I thought I had posted the link but obviously something went askew. I was at work at the time and trying to keep up with the thread while having to go out and repair a machine.  I noticed that you are silent about the cockpit door never being opened.
> (PilotsFor911Truth.org) – Newly decoded data provided by an independent researcher and computer programmer from Australia exposes alarming evidence that the reported hijacking aboard American Airlines Flight 77 was impossible to have existed. A data parameter labeled “FLT DECK DOOR”, cross checks with previously decoded data obtained by Pilots For 9/11 Truth from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) through the Freedom Of Information Act. Also, there have been 14 witnesses that claimed a jet flew over them and then flew over the Pentagon as there was an explosion. Look at the youtube video and tell me with a straight face that this is a plane.....



Occam's Razor: the flight deck door sensor wasn't working.

But you demonstrate my point perfectly. We have dozens of witnesses of the crash. We have debris consistent with an American Airlines 757-223. Down to the engine parts being consistent with the engine type that American Airlines had installed on their planes. We have bodies pulled from the Pentagon matching the passengers and crew of Flight 77. We have an American Society of Civil Engineers study of the damage finding it consistent with an impact from a 757. We have both black boxes from Flight 77 pulled from the Pentagon impact site. We have dozens of witnesses who saw the plane fly directly over head as it flew over I-395 in the middle of a traffic jam.

And we have the flight data recording of Flight 77 bringing it from the airport to the crash site, with literally *millions* of data points of that flight recorded.....

*And you ignore it all because the flight deck door sensor wasn't working. 

That's wildly irrational, Dale. *You're too emotionally invested in your conspiracy. As you're defending it beyond all utility, beyond all rationality, ignoring mountains and mountains and mountains of evidence contradicting you. And offering a stupidly awful, wildly complicated, insanely elaborate conspiracy that you can't factually back up in its place.

ANd you can't even tell me *why* you're ignoring the evidence.


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## Skylar (Jan 17, 2016)

Oh, and your lies about Dr. Steve didn't go unnoticed. With Dr. Steve himself able to provide absolutely no evidence to back any part of his story. Nor even a rational explanation WHY a 'top general' would explain all of 911 to a guy who hadn't worked for the US government in 20 years. 

But you'll accept any source, no matter how inane, or factually baseless their story....if it confirms what you want to believe. Hell, you'll even lie for them to prop up the fantasy you've invented in so much emotionally.


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## Carla_Danger (Jan 17, 2016)

I nominate Skylar to be the new forum psychiatrist.


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## Carla_Danger (Jan 17, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> > MisterBeale said:
> ...





I had no idea you were a twoofer.


----------



## Dale Smith (Jan 17, 2016)

Skylar said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Skylar said:
> ...



Dude, you haven't evolved. You've adopted a fantasy that is based on desperate, willful ignorance of the events. You can't handle reality. You can't handle the evidence. So you concoct an elaborate fantasy populated by characters that you can control. As they're products of your imagination.

Dale, its not an uncommon thing for folks do. For some people, its hard to deal with the uncertainty and chaos of the real world. The idea that 19 guys could cause that much harm can be terrifying. And rather than acknowledge that vulnerability, rather than recognize that seeming randomness........folks like you would prefer that everything is actually under control. So they convince themselves of some elaborate conspiracies, where these events were all part of a ludicrously complicated plan by.....someone. Where every aspect of it was part of it was carefully calculated rather than out of our control.

As at least *someone* would be in control of everything. Even if you have to make them up.

Dale.......you've emotionally invented in this fantasy for so long that now you're as committed to the fantasy as you were commited to running away from the fear. But rationally, objectively......you fantasy is an awful explanation of the events. Its like seeing a fast food wrapper in the garbage....and concluding that the only possible explanation for it is vastly advanced alien civilization that traveled to earth to place it there, using mind control technology to plant false memories to convince the entire planet that 'McDonands' actually exists.

Or......maybe someone had a Big Mac.

Your explanation is stupidly awful. As bad as mind controlling aliens placing a McDonald's wrapper in the garbage. Worse, actually. As your conspiracy requires the spontaneous complicity of 10s of thousands of people working in perfect secrecy and maintaining that secrecy for 15 years and counting.

We couldn't keep the secret of the nuclear bomb under wraps for that long. The US government is stupidly porous. We've seen from leak after leak, Snowdens and Mannings and Wikileaks, that we can't keep secrets that long. That our government lacks the competence to pull off the insanely complicated plot....let alone plan it and keep it secret for a decade and a half. Especially considering that most of it happened in open view of the public.

The evidence contradicting you is enormous. The holes in your logic, truck sized. And your claims don't make the slightest sense. Yet 'nothing can convince you', as you've already told us. Ignoring evidence and closing your mind isn't 'evolution, Dale. Its self deception.


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## SAYIT (Jan 17, 2016)

Skylar said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Pilots for 9/11 Truth has reported that the data stream from the flight data recorder (FDR) for American Airlines flight 77, which allegedly struck the Pentagon on 9/11, shows that the cockpit door never opened during the entire 90 minute flight. The data was provided by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), which has refused to comment.
> ...



So what we clearly have in Dale is a lying, dime-a-dozen anti-America slug who not only posts and repeats his lies - in the face of irrefutable evidence to the contrary - but also the lies of others without due credit to the actual author.

That is called plagiarism and is practiced by the laziest and most dishonest among us ... Dale Smith.

I suspect he is only here because he can post things like "gubermint" with precious little ridicule and that only because there is so much more from him deserving of ridicule.


----------



## SAYIT (Jan 17, 2016)

Carla_Danger said:


> I nominate Skylar to be the new forum psychiatrist.




Sky has certainly (and relentlessly) nailed poor Dale to the wall of CTBS he has posted and pathetically tried to defend.

Interestingly even his comrades on this thread have seen the damage their "Movement" has suffered and have abandoned both Dale and the thread.

Skylar has been on a killer whale kinda roll.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Jan 17, 2016)

still ANOTHER fart from USMB'S resident troll agent say it.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Jan 17, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...




ever notice how trolls like carla in denial can only post a funny when they cant counter facts?


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## MisterBeale (Jan 17, 2016)

Carla_Danger said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > Skylar said:
> ...


If really comes down to a simple equation that has never really been sorted out.

Means, motive, and opportunity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For me, the "terrorists" never really had much of these except for motive.

The folks that really did it though?  They had all three.  It's just that simple.


----------



## MisterBeale (Jan 17, 2016)

What it comes down to Carla, is you have four planes hijacked, it supposedly took up to an half hour for some of the alleged terrorist to get into those cock pits, and not a single one of those eight pilots squaked the code?

On top of that, TV reports tell me all I need to know. . . .



When scientists themselves could not predict something that has never happened in the history of humanity and can still not explain how it happened w/o the use of explosives, yet the media predicts it before it happens, then you know something is rotten in the STATE.


----------



## MisterBeale (Jan 17, 2016)

That's the smoking gun for any intelligent person.


----------



## Carla_Danger (Jan 18, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> What it comes down to Carla, is you have four planes hijacked, it supposedly took up to an half hour for some of the alleged terrorist to get into those cock pits, and not a single one of those eight pilots squaked the code?
> 
> On top of that, TV reports tell me all I need to know. . . .
> 
> ...





Didn't you want to ask me about Naomi Wolf?


----------



## Carla_Danger (Jan 18, 2016)

9/11 inside job said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Skylar said:
> ...





That's because I'm busy right now, finding out whether Bob the Builder is demonic. What do you think?


----------



## Carla_Danger (Jan 18, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> > MisterBeale said:
> ...




The folks that really did it.....rofl.


----------



## Gamolon (Jan 18, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> I noticed that you are silent about the cockpit door never being opened.
> (PilotsFor911Truth.org) – Newly decoded data provided by an independent researcher and computer programmer from Australia exposes alarming evidence that the reported hijacking aboard American Airlines Flight 77 was impossible to have existed. A data parameter labeled “FLT DECK DOOR”, cross checks with previously decoded data obtained by Pilots For 9/11 Truth from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) through the Freedom Of Information Act.



Dale,

Do you ever look at ALL the available information regarding a claim? I looks to me like you research a given claim until you find something that supports your beliefs and then you stop there. Here is more information that I have found.


> The FDR parameter for the FLT DECK DOOR was not active and recorded on this model B757. Flight 77 was a B757-2 with "N" numbers, " of N644AA" indicating that it was built in late 1991, when this model was manufactured at Boeing. On this model the FDR did not record the state of this parameter in the FDR data, even though they left room for it and recorded this data later in the newer B757-3.
> 
> There is no indication that this model had ever been upgraded to a B757-3
> 
> The last 42 hours on the FDR data shows in fact no record of this function becoming active, meaning the door switch parameter had never been recorded as open on any of these flights even though this data covered 12 separate flights, again confirming that this FDR parameter was inoperative on this model of B757-2.



Democratic Underground - The FDR parameter for the FLT DECK DOOR was not active - Democratic Underground

This was brought up to Rob Balsamo and he never addressed the issue as far as I can tell.


----------



## Dale Smith (Jan 18, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



"Dude, you haven't evolved. You've adopted a fantasy that is based on desperate, willful ignorance of the events. You can't handle reality. You can't handle the evidence. So you concoct an elaborate fantasy populated by characters that you can control. As they're products of your imagination"

Au contraire, I just woke up as to what is really going on instead of spewing the official story for 11 years like I did. There wasn't a bigger denier than me. You are the one that seems to have the problem that reality isn't what you think it is. 9/11/01 is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to all things this corporate government has down to it's human resources (us). I have seen more than enough evidence to convince me that I spewed ignorant insults at those that were trying to wake people up. Tonight I listened to an hour and a half long video of those that were there that day (and that includes fire fighters and civilians that heard numerous explosions. You can even see squibs as much as 10 floors below where the collapse is. Watch this video...I dare you. 
"Dale, its not an uncommon thing for folks do. For some people, its hard to deal with the uncertainty and chaos of the real world. The idea that 19 guys could cause that much harm can be terrifying. And rather than acknowledge that vulnerability, rather than recognize that seeming randomness........folks like you would prefer that everything is actually under control. So they convince themselves of some elaborate conspiracies, where these events were all part of a ludicrously complicated plan by.....someone. Where every aspect of it was part of it was carefully calculated rather than out of our control."

No, I would actually feel better that 19 guys were able to sneak under the radar and commit those acts if the scenario was actually plausible and made sense but seven of these alleged "high-jackers" are still alive. Two 110 story buildings and a 47 story tall building fall due to fire but yet a passport of one of the alleged terrorists flutters to the ground and someone just happens to find it, finds someone in authority to give it to amid the chaos.....and YOU believe that shit? Do you believe in leprechauns as well?

"Dale.......you've emotionally invented in this fantasy for so long that now you're as committed to the fantasy as you were commited to running away from the fear. But rationally, objectively......you fantasy is an awful explanation of the events. Its like seeing a fast food wrapper in the garbage....and concluding that the only possible explanation for it is vastly advanced alien civilization that traveled to earth to place it there, using mind control technology to plant false memories to convince the entire planet that 'McDonands' actually exists."

That's pretty damn laughable because I was one just like you. I said that your beloved corporate "gubermint" would not need to cause such carnage if it wanted to cause a war in Iraq and Afghanistan so the heroin would flow back into the country. But like any good gubermint psy-op, there are a multitude of reasons as to how the global elites took advantage of this and it was definitely for monetary gain with the ability to water down our rights and privacy that we gave up with nary a whimper.

"Your explanation is stupidly awful. As bad as mind controlling aliens placing a McDonald's wrapper in the garbage. Worse, actually. As your conspiracy requires the spontaneous complicity of 10s of thousands of people working in perfect secrecy and maintaining that secrecy for 15 years and counting"

Nope, not at all as everything within this corporate structure is very compartmentalized. Those that are complicit are monitored because the NSA's power has expanded because of this attack...and whom would they contact within the lamestream media since the news is filtered and owned by 6 mega corporations??????? Think about it....

"We couldn't keep the secret of the nuclear bomb under wraps for that long. The US government is stupidly porous. We've seen from leak after leak, Snowdens and Mannings and Wikileaks, that we can't keep secrets that long. That our government lacks the competence to pull off the insanely complicated plot....let alone plan it and keep it secret for a decade and a half. Especially considering that most of it happened in open view of the public."

The Manhattan Project was kept under wraps long enough to allow the bombings of two cities in Japan to happen even though it wasn't even necessary to make them surrender.....fact.

"The evidence contradicting you is enormous. The holes in your logic, truck sized. And your claims don't make the slightest sense. Yet 'nothing can convince you', as you've already told us. Ignoring evidence and closing your mind isn't 'evolution, Dale. Its self deception"

You mean the official story sold to you by the bought and paid for mainstream media that pushed this false narrative....duly noted. Bring it own...........or surrender the thread because I am not going anywhere. Feel free to cast your aspersions and insults but at the end of the day? I know more than you....fact.


----------



## Dale Smith (Jan 18, 2016)

SAYIT said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> > I nominate Skylar to be the new forum psychiatrist.
> ...



Coming from a "me too" troll that is nothing but a bug on the windshield of life" in my world that has a big ol bag of nothin'? I laugh loud and long at you....hope you enjoy the cyber pat on the head. (snicker)


----------



## KissMy (Jan 18, 2016)

TheCrusader said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> > Did you read that the HEAT from all that jet fuel burning actually fatigued drastically the steel in the WTC?
> ...



A sledge hammer hits with a force of 1,000 times it's weight.


----------



## Dale Smith (Jan 18, 2016)

Gamolon said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > I noticed that you are silent about the cockpit door never being opened.
> ...


 I used every piece of ammo , real or not to smack "truthers"  around with great glee....I would pull up websites complete with "cut and paste" in an attempt to debunk their anti-Neo-con/PNAC theory so spare me....I was the master on busting on "truthers" and I had a huge following of people on the internet that looked to me to show them how to fend off the leftard clown posse of sniveling fools. I was a frigging "ICON"....no one could flame posters like I could. If planes actually hit the WTC 1 and 2, they were controlled by  the drone control. The plane that allegedly hit the Pentagon was hit by a moron that couldn't even master the controls of a single engine Cessna....go sell your bullshit somewhere else....I have enough to deal with here.


----------



## Dale Smith (Jan 18, 2016)

KissMy said:


> TheCrusader said:
> 
> 
> > Vigilante said:
> ...



This alleged plane didn't "hammer down"......want to try again?


----------



## MisterBeale (Jan 18, 2016)

Carla_Danger said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > What it comes down to Carla, is you have four planes hijacked, it supposedly took up to an half hour for some of the alleged terrorist to get into those cock pits, and not a single one of those eight pilots squaked the code?
> ...


Yeah, I was going to, but then thought better of it.  That line of reasoning would have gone no where.  In progressive circles she is highly regarded, but if you do regard her very highly, it would be a pointless tangent, so I thought better of it.  It's best to stick with the facts rather than an appeal to authority fallacy.


----------



## SAYIT (Jan 18, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Coming from a "me too" troll that is nothing but a bug on the windshield of life" in my world that has a big ol bag of nothin'? I laugh loud and long at you....hope you enjoy the cyber pat on the head. (snicker)



Considering just how factually and thoroughly your lies have been refuted and the fact that your response has been to change the subject, double down on your "truther" silliness or pull another "I know more than you" outta your empty quiver, I'd say your laughter is that of an insecure BOZO.



Dale Smith said:


> I used every piece of ammo , real or not to smack "truthers"  around with great glee....I would pull up websites complete with "cut and paste" in an attempt to debunk their anti-Neo-con/PNAC theory so spare me....I was the master on busting on "truthers" and I had a huge following of people on the internet that looked to me to show them how to fend off the leftard clown posse of sniveling fools. I was a frigging "ICON"....no one could flame posters like I could. If planes actually hit the WTC 1 and 2, they were controlled by  the drone control. The plane that allegedly hit the Pentagon was hit by a moron that couldn't even master the controls of a single engine Cessna....go sell your bullshit somewhere else....I have enough to deal with here.



Yeah ... you're a regular legend in your own pompous mind and your desire to escape the corner you have been in for weeks is understandable yet predictably typical. Believe it or not you are not the best, smartest or most knowledgeable 9/11 CT to spew that silliness here and, like the rest, you have had your arrogant yet remarkably ignorant head handed to you.

Clearly you have finally figured out you aren't enjoying the smell of the mendacious 9/11 CTBS your nose has been dipped in by those who are way smarter and more knowledgeable than you. Perhaps that is your "epiphany."



Dale Smith said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> > A sledge hammer hits with a force of 1,000 times it's weight.
> ...



True, but the floors above certainly hammered down on those below.

That you and TheCrusader can't (or won't) even comprehend so basic a physical concept is irrefutable evidence that you just aren't smart enough to participate in this conversation (as one-sided as it has been for weeks).


----------



## Skylar (Jan 18, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> > MisterBeale said:
> ...




And who are 'these folks'? What is their 'motive', according to you?

As for 'means' and 'opportunity', explain your narrative. We will compare it to the evidence and see how it holds up.


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## MisterBeale (Jan 18, 2016)

Skylar said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > Carla_Danger said:
> ...


"We will" do no such thing.

I have discussed things with you already.  You selectively discuss subjects at your whim.  

When your 911 skeptics pages have answers, you post them here.  When those pages don't have credible answers or believable lies, you remain silent and my best posts lay forgotten, unresponded to, buried pages back in the thread.  I think, on this subject, it's over buddy. 

Sorry, I'm done with your ad hominem attacks and disrespect Skylar.  Go find some other critical free thinker to pick on with your nonsense, bullying, hyperbole, and sophistry.


----------



## Skylar (Jan 18, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> > MisterBeale said:
> ...



Here's my post. Show me where I offered you any ad hominem. Just highlight it for us.



> And who are 'these folks'? What is their 'motive', according to you?
> 
> As for 'means' and 'opportunity', explain your narrative. We will compare it to the evidence and see how it holds up.



There is none. If your claims had merit, you could answer such direct and simple questions honestly and clearly. Instead, you give me excuses why you can't.

Try again.



> Go find some other critical free thinker to pick on with your nonsense, bullying, hyperbole, and sophistry.



A critical free thinker could have answer the questions I posed about your claims.  You couldn't.

Remember that. I certainly will.


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## Skylar (Jan 18, 2016)

Oh, and as a general question to our resident conspiracy theorists regarding their 'Larry Silverstein' and his 'pull it' quote:

Are you claiming that Larry Silverstein ordered them to 'pull it' and they explosively demolished the building?


----------



## Dale Smith (Jan 19, 2016)

SAYIT said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Coming from a "me too" troll that is nothing but a bug on the windshield of life" in my world that has a big ol bag of nothin'? I laugh loud and long at you....hope you enjoy the cyber pat on the head. (snicker)
> ...



 You and "irrefutable evidence" don't even have a nodding acquaintance with each other. Your pal's claimed that one of the WTC towers fell in 15 seconds  has been disputed by the NIST that push the official narrative. Your pal claims that eye-witnesses saw a 757 jet at the Pentagon even though they can't say that they saw  it hit it and there is no film footage that can back this up but yet they are "credible" but people that claim to have heard multiple explosions at WTC 1, 2 and 7 are not. I don't need eyewitness accounts to tell me what I did or did not see. The cover-up is obvious and should be to anyone with the ability to think critically. You are a time waster as you bring nothing to the table...you sit in the "amen pew" hoping for a cyber pat on the head.


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## Dale Smith (Jan 19, 2016)

Skylar said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > Carla_Danger said:
> ...


----------



## Dale Smith (Jan 19, 2016)

Skylar said:


> Oh, and as a general question to our resident conspiracy theorists regarding their 'Larry Silverstein' and his 'pull it' quote:
> 
> Are you claiming that Larry Silverstein ordered them to 'pull it' and they explosively demolished the building?





Dale Smith said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> > MisterBeale said:
> ...



We know that the Patriot Act was written in advance of this false flag  event and we know that the apparatus to spy on everyone's on-line activity and cell-phone data was ready to go before 9/11. We have PNAC's own papers written in 1999 for a new American century that it  would take a Pearl Harbor like event to bring about these draconian measures. We already know that troops were  being sent to Afghanistan and staged a few weeks before 9/11. We also know that Osama bin Laden whose CIA identity was "Tim Osman" and was and had always been a CIA asset that was part of the mujahideen that was put in place to fight a proxy war against the USSR in 1979 by globalist Zbigniew Brzensksi that was Jimmy Carter's security advisor. Osama bin laden was under going treatment for Marfan's disease and was on kidney dialysis and was in the last stages. The military industrial complex stood to gain BILLIONS from a war and their corporate entities that would be making money for security equipment for airports. The "underwear bomber" was a CIA staged event complete with a handler and that introduced body scanning technology at the air ports. No bid contracts for Halliburton and their subsidiaries like KBR, Blackwater security, etc, etc....

But the biggest prize was 240 billion dollars in oil and natural gas in ten year securities due to the Black Eagle Trust that were bought illegally b the Bush crime family that off of the back of of Leo Wanta's currency swaps that brought own the ruble. The SEC that was investigating insider trading crimes was meeting in WTC 1 that day and would have had to authenticate the 240 BILLION dollars in Russian oil and natural gas would have had a lot of questions  about ownership.....9/11 solved for them.


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## Carla_Danger (Jan 19, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> > MisterBeale said:
> ...





I think you're confusing Skylar with me.  lol


----------



## Capstone (Jan 19, 2016)

Skylar said:


> Oh, and as a general question to our resident conspiracy theorists regarding their 'Larry Silverstein' and his 'pull it' quote:
> 
> Are you claiming that Larry Silverstein ordered them to 'pull it' and they explosively demolished the building?


Goddamnit. You've gone and piqued my curiosity now, only 'cuz I've recently caught wind of an interesting trend in the OCTard community. I'm curious as to whether that's the direction you're hoping to go with the infamously ambiguous Silverswine quote.

Personally, I make no "claim" regarding the "pull it" quote, even though there's anecdotal evidence which suggests that Silverstein had controlled demolition on the brain on 9/11/01.

For instance, in the words of Jeff Shapiro:

"_Shortly before the building [WTC 7] collapsed, several NYPD officers and Con-Edison workers told me that Larry Silverstein, the property developer of One World Financial Center was on the phone with his insurance carrier to see if they would authorize the controlled demolition of the building..._"

Nevertheless, in my view, his choice of phrasing in the PBS documentary was ambiguous enough to make the quote a non-issue.

What are your thoughts on the matter, though?


----------



## Gamolon (Jan 20, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Your pal's claimed that one of the WTC towers fell in 15 seconds  has been disputed by the NIST that push the official narrative.


The NIST refuted it?! What a bunch of garbage! Below is the excerpt from NIST's FAQ page taken from FAQs - NIST WTC Towers Investigation



> *11. How could the WTC towers collapse in only 11 seconds (WTC 1) and 9 seconds (WTC 2)—speeds that approximate that of a ball dropped from similar height in a vacuum (with no air resistance)?*
> NIST estimated the elapsed times for the first exterior panels to strike the ground after the collapse initiated in each of the towers to be approximately 11 seconds for WTC 1 and approximately 9 seconds for WTC 2. These elapsed times were based on: (1) precise timing of the initiation of collapse from video evidence, and (2) ground motion (seismic) signals recorded at Palisades, N.Y., that also were precisely time-calibrated for wave transmission times from lower Manhattan (see NIST NCSTAR 1-5A).
> As documented in Section 6.14.4 of NIST NCSTAR 1, these collapse times show that:
> “The structure below the level of collapse initiation offered minimal resistance to the falling building mass at and above the impact zone. The potential energy released by the downward movement of the large building mass far exceeded the capacity of the intact structure below to absorb that energy through energy of deformation.
> ...



How did the NIST refute the total collapse time of more than 15 seconds when they themselves say that a portion of the core remained standing for 15 seconds after the collapse initiation?

You're crazy...


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## SAYIT (Jan 22, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> You and "irrefutable evidence" don't even have a nodding acquaintance with each other. Your pal's claimed that one of the WTC towers fell in 15 seconds has been disputed by the NIST that push the official narrative...  The cover-up is obvious and should be to anyone with the ability to think critically. You are a time waster as you bring nothing to the table...you sit in the "amen pew" hoping for a cyber pat on the head.



If only you had the integrity to think critically. Instead you've become a mindless sycophant to a long defunct movement that requires its remnants to repeat such lies as "the Towers fell in 9 seconds."

No matter how often (or loudly) you repeat your lies nor how desperately you needs to believe them, they remain and always will remain lies.



Gamolon said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Your pal's claimed that one of the WTC towers fell in 15 seconds  has been disputed by the NIST that push the official narrative.
> ...



How did the NIST refute the total collapse time of more than 15 seconds when they themselves say that a portion of the core remained standing for 15 seconds after the collapse initiation?

You're crazy...[/QUOTE]

It's clearly a self-induced lunacy. Poor Smith is so wedded to his 9/11 CT beliefs he can't (or won't) accept that they are anything less than the truth despite hard proof that they are not.


----------



## Dale Smith (Jan 22, 2016)

SAYIT said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > You and "irrefutable evidence" don't even have a nodding acquaintance with each other. Your pal's claimed that one of the WTC towers fell in 15 seconds has been disputed by the NIST that push the official narrative...  The cover-up is obvious and should be to anyone with the ability to think critically. You are a time waster as you bring nothing to the table...you sit in the "amen pew" hoping for a cyber pat on the head.
> ...



It's clearly a self-induced lunacy. Poor Smith is so wedded to his 9/11 CT beliefs he can't (or won't) accept that they are anything less than the truth despite hard proof that they are not.[/QUOTE]

Only a brain dead idiot believes that two planes totally demolished three buildings that collapsed inside their own footprint all in less than 8 hours and that the Pentagon doesn't have actual footage of what hit the side of the Pentagon with expendables that were researching and trying to find the missing 2.3 TRILLION dollars that Rumsfeld said could not be accounted for just the day before...seriously, how fucking STUPID are you????


----------



## Skylar (Jan 22, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Only a brain dead idiot believes that two planes totally demolished three buildings that collapsed inside their own footprint all in less than 8 hours and that the Pentagon doesn't have actual footage of what hit the side of the Pentagon with expendables that were researching and trying to find the missing 2.3 TRILLION dollars that Rumsfeld said could not be accounted for just the day before...seriously, how fucking STUPID are you????



Sorry, Dale....but your explanation is stupidly awful. Truthers have posited the 'no plane theory', where all footage of the planes hitting the towers was faked and all the people that saw the impacts were plants or hallucinating. Which is fantasticaly idiotic.

And when you look into the 2.3 Trillion dollar claim, it doesn't support your conspiracy:



> In fiscal 1999, a defense audit found that about $2.3 trillion of balances, transactions and adjustments were inadequately documented. These "unsupported" transactions do not mean the department ultimately cannot account for them, she advised, but that tracking down needed documents would take a long time. Auditors, she said, might have to go to different computer systems, to different locations or access different databases to get information.
> 
> http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=44199



With Senator Robert Bird making the same claims in the LA Times at the beginning of 2001:



> Senator Byrd: A recent article in the Los Angeles Times, written by a retired vice admiral and a civilian employee in the Office of the Secretary of Defense, accused the Department of Defense of being unable to account for the funds that Congress appropriates to it. The authors wrote, and I quote in part, quote, "The Pentagon's books are in such utter disarray that no one knows what America's military actually owns or spends." ...
> 
> That audit report found that out of $7.6 trillion in department-level accounting interest, 2.3 trillion in entries either did not contain adequate documentation or were improperly reconciled or were made to force buyer and seller data to agree. This DoD-IG report is very disturbing....
> 
> ...



With similar stories run by PBS, Lou Dobbs, Inspector General reports from 2000, given in congressional speeches, etc. All months or years before Rumsfeld.

Even Rumsfeld himself, in the very quote you're offering......demonstrates this is an accounting issue related to antiquated databases that can't talk to each other.



> The technology revolution has transformed organizations across the private sector, but not ours, not fully, not yet. We are, as they say, tangled in our anchor chain. Our financial systems are decades old. *According to some estimates, we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions. *We cannot share information from floor to floor in this building because it's stored on dozens of technological systems that are inaccessible or incompatible.



The bolded portion is your quote. *The rest is the quote in context. *Which demonstrates the absurdity of your conspiracy.

Back in reality, its not that the 2.3 trillion was 'missing'. Its that the systems tracking it weren't integrated, were in different locations and couldn't talk to each other. Its an issue of inadequate documentation. It was a call to upgrade the accounting system at the pentagon and fix the databasing problem.

*All of which already know, Dale. *Yet you really hope we don't. You intentionally and systematically deny us extraordinarily relevant information about your claim that you KNOW contradicts your conspiracy account....in the hopes of convincing us something you know isn't true.

Why? Because you're so emotionally invested in your stupidly complicated, insanely elaborate, and baseless conspiracy theory.....that you've committed to deceive to support it. Because you know the evidence doesn't.

*Why would any rational person ignore the evidence you withheld? *


----------



## Gamolon (Jan 22, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> two planes totally demolished three buildings


Lie #1



Dale Smith said:


> that collapsed inside their own footprint


Lie #2

Are lies the only way you can conceivably perpetuate your beliefs?


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Jan 22, 2016)

30 minutes ago,someone farted in here.


----------



## rdean (Jan 22, 2016)

If you drop 18 floors 15 feet, how much force does that generate?


----------



## Skylar (Jan 22, 2016)

rdean said:


> If you drop 18 floors 15 feet, how much force does that generate?



Meh, why would they bother to acknowledge the acceleration of gravity?  

I mean, place a cinderblock on your head. Now drop the same cinderblock onto your head from 15 feet up (*). Is it the same amount of force impacting your noggin?




(*) You'll probably only be able to do this experiment once. So pay close attention.


----------



## Dale Smith (Jan 22, 2016)

Skylar said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Only a brain dead idiot believes that two planes totally demolished three buildings that collapsed inside their own footprint all in less than 8 hours and that the Pentagon doesn't have actual footage of what hit the side of the Pentagon with expendables that were researching and trying to find the missing 2.3 TRILLION dollars that Rumsfeld said could not be accounted for just the day before...seriously, how fucking STUPID are you????
> ...


The War On Waste


----------



## Skylar (Jan 23, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



And again, here's Rumsfeld's quote in context:



> The technology revolution has transformed organizations across the private sector, but not ours, not fully, not yet. We are, as they say, tangled in our anchor chain. Our financial systems are decades old. *According to some estimates, we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions. *We cannot share information from floor to floor in this building because it's stored on dozens of technological systems that are inaccessible or incompatible.



You know this. But you only offer Rumsfeld quote without any of the context as part of your stupidly elaborate conspiracy theory. Even though what you omit is amazingly relevant and contradicts your conspiracy. 



> In fiscal 1999, a defense audit found that about $2.3 trillion of balances, transactions and adjustments were inadequately documented. These "unsupported" transactions do not mean the department ultimately cannot account for them, she advised, but that tracking down needed documents would take a long time. Auditors, she said, might have to go to different computer systems, to different locations or access different databases to get information.
> 
> http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=44199



You know this too. That these transactions were inadequately documented because of antiquated databasing systems that made it a long and difficult process to pull the docs.

Yet you intentionally omitted this information so you could misrepresent Rumsfeld's statement.

When did your 'evolution' involve intentional misrepresentations, willful omissions of relevant information, and reliance on the ignorance of your audience?

*If your claims had merit....why would you need to?*


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## Skylar (Jan 23, 2016)

Laughing......looks like its time for another one of Dale's games of 'conspiracy whacka-mole'. Apparently when one piece of conspiracy batshit fails.....he'll just switch to another.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jan 23, 2016)

someone farted in here.^


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## Skylar (Jan 23, 2016)

> I wish that it were so and that I was just having a bad dream, but that is not the case. I have no "willful ignorance of the events" thing going on....I did at one time and was a co-sponsor of pushing the official story of this corporate "gubermint" because America is not a country, it is a corporation due to the Act of 1871. You are an indentured debt slave, a surety on the debt due to the Chapter 11 Bankruptcy of USA.INC in March of 1933...we have all been duped. We toil three to four months a year for free to pay interest on a fiat currency that is created from credit on a computer screen...try coming to that realization that you have worked 1/3 of your life for free.....



Nonsense. You're built up this stupidly elaborate fantasy filed with nested assumuptions that just don't hold up. And you'll lie to back it up. You're emotionally invested in your fantasy to such a degree that you'll lie to back it up.

We've caught you in fallacy after fallacy, false claim after false claim, lie after lie. And what do you do when when one part of your delusion is abolished by the facts? You just switch to ANOTHER conspiracy accusation. Despite the fact that you just demonstrated that your process doesn't work.

Your claims about Rumsfeld were ridiculously misleading. As what you portrayed as 2.3 Trillion dollars missing from the pentagon (and 911 there to cover it up) was merely a databasing issue where different and hard to use systems made it difficult to track transactions. With Rumsfeld calling for the system to be upgraded.

Remember your 'the cockpit door on flight 77 wasn't opened' claim? The sensor wasn't online. It wasn't even active on that model of plane. Which you know. But didn't tell us.

Remember when you insisted that all the seat phones had been deactivated on Flight 77? Well Airfone, the company that runs them tracked numerous calls from those very phones. Disproving your claims. And you knew about this too. But again, misrepresented the truth...withholding that information.

Remember your claims about Silverstein telling them to 'pull it'. And that because he gave the order 'they' explosively demolished WTC 7? He was on the phone with the FDNY. The people you're accusing of demolishing the WTC 7.....is the Fire Department of New York City. That had just lost 343 of its own members. But just deci

That's insane. And you know its insane. Which is why you refused to tell us who 'they' were.

It goes on....and on....and on. With you offering lie after lie, half truths and outright misrepresentations.

What's happened to you isn't 'evolution'. Its self delusion. Delusion so deep, delusion you've commited to so completely that you're willing to trade your integrity for it.

No thank you.


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## Dale Smith (Jan 23, 2016)

Special Report: The Pentagon's doctored ledgers conceal epic waste


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## Skylar (Jan 23, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Special Report: The Pentagon's doctored ledgers conceal epic waste



And once again, here's Rumsfeld's full quote:



> The technology revolution has transformed organizations across the private sector, but not ours, not fully, not yet. We are, as they say, tangled in our anchor chain. Our financial systems are decades old. *According to some estimates, we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions. *We cannot share information from floor to floor in this building because it's stored on dozens of technological systems that are inaccessible or incompatible.



Why do you keep refusing to admit that Rumsfeld is calling for a technological upgrade to remedy problems with inaccessible or incompatible databasing systems? 

So much for your missing '2.3 trillion'. 

Is stuff like this that encourage most Americans not to take Truthers seriously.


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## Dale Smith (Jan 23, 2016)

Accounting fraud is business as usual at the Pentagon, Reuters reports | PBS NewsHour


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## Skylar (Jan 23, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Accounting fraud is business as usual at the Pentagon, Reuters reports | PBS NewsHour



Laughing.... an article from 2013? Which doesn't back any portion of your 2.3 trillion dollar claim?

You're running, Dale. Is desperately trying to change the topic when we catch you in yet *another* blatant misrepresentation part of your 'evolution'.

And can you see why we just don't take Truther's seriously?


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## Dale Smith (Jan 23, 2016)

Are you too blind to see the pattern?  Of course you are and believe me, I don't take you seriously either. All I see is a blind sheep that clings to his beloved "gubermint".


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## candycorn (Jan 23, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



The Pentagon is a few hundred yards off of the flight path directly into Reagan National.


Its amazing your *snicker* 12,000 hours of research didn't debunk the "most secured airspace" nonsense.


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## Dale Smith (Jan 24, 2016)

candycorn said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Skylar said:
> ...



The Pentagon has a surface to air missile system that is for other aircraft that might enter the restricted space without permission and pose a "clear and present danger" that could not be handled by intercept....looks like that would fall under the category of "secure" to me. Of course we have Cheney giving the stand down orders as the hijacked plane approached should concern you just a little or arouse some intellectual curiousity..that and they refuse to release video of a plane actually hitting the Pentagon. We have lots of footage from every angle show alleged planes hitting WTC 1 and 2.

(snicker)


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## candycorn (Jan 24, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



Total conjecture.  



Dale Smith said:


> Of course we have Cheney giving the stand down orders as the hijacked plane approached should concern you just a little or arouse some intellectual curiousity..that and they refuse to release video of a plane actually hitting the Pentagon. We have lots of footage from every angle show alleged planes hitting WTC 1 and 2.
> 
> (snicker)



No such "stand down" order was given.  

There is only one known video of AA11 hitting the north tower.  You're simply making stuff up.

The South tower footage has several angles because they were filming the fire on the north tower.

I think you spent 12.00000000 seconds doing your "research" instead of 12,000 hours.  Because you're incredibly ignorant of the facts.


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## Dale Smith (Jan 24, 2016)

Yes, a stand down order was indeed given from tricky Dick Cheney as the alleged hijacked plane got closer to the Pentagon and on the side of the Pentagon that had just so conveniently been re-enforced where bean counters were busily trying to account for missing TRILLIONS of dollars the military industrial complex could not account for. I haven't spent 12,000 hours researching 9/11...shit, even an educated 4th grader would be able to connect these dots when it comes to this sham. I know how the system works and the power players behind it and what the end game  is...all their little psy-ops, money manipulation schemes....."I know a lotta things" as Robert De Niro would say....know a lotta things.....


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## candycorn (Jan 24, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Yes, a stand down order was indeed given from tricky Dick Cheney as the alleged hijacked plane got closer to the Pentagon and on the side of the Pentagon that had just so conveniently been re-enforced where bean counters were busily trying to account for missing TRILLIONS of dollars the military industrial complex could not account for. I haven't spent 12,000 hours researching 9/11...shit, even an educated 4th grader would be able to connect these dots when it comes to this sham. I know how the system works and the power players behind it and what the end game  is...all their little psy-ops, money manipulation schemes....."I know a lotta things" as Robert De Niro would say....know a lotta things.....



The Pentagon has no such AA battery. Where is it? They are fairly easy to spot.
The Pentagon airspace is not secure.   As we saw from numerous videos of planes landing and taking off directly overt.
There was no "stand down" order given at any time.
There were not trillions of dollars missing.  
You know nothing; you prove it with every post.


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## PredFan (Jan 24, 2016)

TheCrusader said:


> I knew it!  I knew it made no sense that the much lighter top would collapse the whole "supposedly" undamaged bottom.  Now I found scientific engineering papers to PROVE IT!  Did you know that the WTC were designed to so that they were holding only 30% of their capacity by weight?  That means the WTC towers could hold up to almost 300 more floors!  And just 18 floors collapsed the whole building?
> 
> Here's the paper: with some quotations:
> 
> ...



Interesting. Thanks for posting that.


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## Skylar (Jan 24, 2016)

candycorn said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, a stand down order was indeed given from tricky Dick Cheney as the alleged hijacked plane got closer to the Pentagon and on the side of the Pentagon that had just so conveniently been re-enforced where bean counters were busily trying to account for missing TRILLIONS of dollars the military industrial complex could not account for. I haven't spent 12,000 hours researching 9/11...shit, even an educated 4th grader would be able to connect these dots when it comes to this sham. I know how the system works and the power players behind it and what the end game  is...all their little psy-ops, money manipulation schemes....."I know a lotta things" as Robert De Niro would say....know a lotta things.....
> ...



 For fuck's sake, the Pentagon is literally across the freeway from Ronald Reagan international airport. Literally 3000 FEET or so from its northern runway.

This was 'secure airspace'?

Dear God, Truthers are dense.


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## Skylar (Jan 24, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Are you too blind to see the pattern?  Of course you are and believe me, I don't take you seriously either. All I see is a blind sheep that clings to his beloved "gubermint".



I've noticed the pattern all right, Dale: you're consistently misleading. You're giving us a series of half truths, utterly misresentations or outright lies.

The 2.3 trillion wasn't 'missing'. It was inadequately documented. Which you know. But really hoped we didn't.


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## Gamolon (Jan 25, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> The Pentagon has a surface to air missile system


Yet another lie by you.

I dare you to source your informality and prove this. Should be pretty well documented right?


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## Dale Smith (Jan 25, 2016)

Skylar said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...


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## Dale Smith (Jan 25, 2016)

Skylar said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Are you too blind to see the pattern?  Of course you are and believe me, I don't take you seriously either. All I see is a blind sheep that clings to his beloved "gubermint".
> ...



Total bullshit, I gave you a link to a CBS report that exposes the missing TRILLIONS of dollars and the problem has only gotten worse. There is no one so blind as one that will not even try to see.


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## Dale Smith (Jan 25, 2016)

Gamolon said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > The Pentagon has a surface to air missile system
> ...



Dear friends,
Remember Star Wars? Do you remember the Pentagon's Strategic Defense Initiative to build a massive missile defense system that raised so much controversy during the Reagan and first Bush years? 130 billion of our tax dollars were poured into developing that system. It was designed to detect and intercept missiles fired from an _unknown destination_ traveling at well _over 10 times the speed_ of a commercial airliner, and to shoot them down in 15 minutes or less, before they reached their US targets.
According the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) website, "a defensive system may need to hit a warhead smaller than an oil drum that is traveling above the atmosphere at speeds greater than 13,000 miles per hour." The CBO report states that missile defense and intercept systems must take down an ICBM in a matter of minutes or it is all over.
You may remember that before 9/11, there were a number of tests of the Pentagon's missile defense systems. Some tests failed, while others succeeded. But there is an important question here. *If these sophisticated military systems were designed to detect missiles fired from unknown locations at over 13,000 mph and shoot them down in mere minutes, why on 9/11 could they not detect any one of the four large airliners traveling at a mere 600 mph, especially when two of them were known to be lost for over 40 minutes before they crashed?*
This question applies especially to Flight 77, which crashed into the Pentagon. The first plane hijacking on 9/11 was reported at about 8:20 AM (see _NY Times_ article), well over an hour before Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon at 9:38. According to the _Times_ article, Flight 77 was reported lost at 8:56 A.M., 42 minutes before it crashed. Even if the FAA radar systems completely failed and FAA officials failed to alert the military, all military leaders certainly knew within minutes that the World Trade Center had been hit at 8:46. By 9:03, when the second tower was hit, they certainly knew there were big problems.
*How is it possible that the Pentagon's highly touted missile detections systems could not locate Flight 77 in the 42 minutes it was known to be lost before it crashed into the heart of the defense system of the U.S.?* The missile detection systems did not depend on FAA radar and were programmed to pick up any unaccounted for objects and raise alarms immediately, as mentioned on the CBO website.
Here's another related question. Why was the Pentagon's billion-dollar missile defense system such a hot topic in the media before 9/11, yet we've heard almost nothing about it since? Could it be that there are elements in the government and military who don't want people to think about questions like those asked here? And an even bigger question is why isn't our media asking these questions and more?
*Why is it that the 9/11 Commission budget was far less than the budget allotted to the Challenger space shuttle disaster or even the Monica Lewinsky affair?* The 9/11 commission was originally allotted only $3 million. Eventually, after much begging and haggling, the commission was given $15 million. Yet a CNN article lists the cost of the Lewinsky investigation at $30 million. A _Los Angeles Times_ article states the cost of the Columbia space shuttle disaster investigation was $175 million.
How could 9/11 – the greatest disaster in American history – be given such a small budget for investigation? Why didn't the Pentagon aggressively investigate the greatest failure ever in U.S. defenses? And why did both the president (see CNN article) and vice-president (see _Newsweek_ article) initially oppose any investigation at all?
Why aren't we, the public, asking these questions and demanding answers? It's not too late. Let us take action now and seek answers to these vital questions. For further reliable information on this topic, go to the revealing two-page 9/11 summary at available here. All information is taken only from major media sources. You can easily verify each fact by using the links provided to the original articles on the major media websites from which the facts were taken. Then watch a 15-minute clip of the powerful, eye-opening documentary _9/11: Press for Truth_ at this link. The box below also contains excellent ideas on what you can do to make a difference.
To understand why all of this disturbing information isn't getting extensive media coverage, visit this link. If these facts were reported in headline news where they belong, caring citizens would be astounded and demand to know more. This has not happened, which is why we feel compelled to provide them here. It is now up to us, the citizens of all countries to come together to bring light to the hidden shadows so that we can more effectively work towards a better world for all of us. 

*The entire website at www.WantToKnow.info is dedicated both to providing a concise, reliable introduction to important information that is being hidden from us, and to inspiring us to work together to strengthen democracy and to build a better world.* You can help to build a brighter future right now by educating yourself on these vital issues, and by forwarding this message to your friends and colleagues and asking them to do the same. Thank you for caring. Together we can and will build a better world for ourselves and our children.
With best wishes,
Fred Burks for PEERS and WantToKnow.info
Former language interpreter for Presidents Bush and Clinton


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## Dale Smith (Jan 25, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



On 9/11 Cheney ordered the stand down of the air defense missiles around the Pentagon and the Washington DC area

The jet that hit the Pentagon, United Airlines flight 77 was able to penetrate that highly protected airspace without the proper MODE 4A military I.F.F. response, (indentify friendly or foe – enemy aircraft) and no communications with air traffic control of any kind, no clearance issued of any kind, and yet UA 77 flew a nice leisurely 330 degree turn after passing right past the White House, the more desirable high value target. 

The Identification Friend or Foe system uses a special MODE 4A feature that only military aircraft use, and requires special encryption. Additionally, a mission specific MODEX aka SEDSCAF number for each plane is assigned and if it must meet the PLAN OF THE DAY for the area. The proper MODEX / SEDSCAF NUMBER is what enables an aircraft then to penetrate prohibited or military restricted airspace such as that which surrounds both the White House and the Pentagon, as well as a number of military installations around the globe.

Without this IFF any aircraft would be shot down. No “if”s, no “and”s and no “but”s!!!!


The Washington, D.C. area has Raytheon “Basic Point Defense” missile battery armament embedded on several building rooftops, using Sea Sparrow air defense missiles.

In any case, there was plenty of warning that an unknown and presumed hostile target was inbound to the Washington, D.C. area from the area around West Virginia to the east, and more than sufficient time existed to scramble fighters and or light off the Basic Point Missile Defense or BPDMS radar systems. There anti-aircraft missile defenses have been installed in rooftops in the Washington, D.C. area since the mid 1980’s. In all likelihood, there also is a version of the PAC-3 ‘Patriot’ Missile system protecting Washington DC and the White House, which UA 77 went breezing right past, and Secret Service agents on the roof with shoulder fired STINGER MISSILES.

Sources: Dennis Cimino, A.A., EE; 35-years EMI/EMC testing, field engineering; FDR testing and certifications specialist; Navy Combat Systems Specialist; 2,000 hours, Pilot in Command, Commercial Instrument Single and Multi-Engine Land Pilot, Eastern Airlines 727-200, Second Officer
Jim Fetzer, a former Marine Corps officer and founder of Scholars for 9/11 Truth, is McKnight Professor Emeritus at the University of Minnesota Duluth.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/03/13/91...k-is-a-fantasy/

After the North Tower was hit, NORAD did not move with greater dispatch. It took six minutes to alert Otis AFB who had armed and fueled F-15s. And because they were told it was not an in-flight emergency, these jets had to wait at least 12 minutes idled on the runway waiting to get permission to take off. (BBC, 9/1/02)

Also NORAD did not order an emergency AFIO, Fighter Interceptor Operation which would have taken control of the airspace from FAA to NORAD so they could move commercial airplanes away from where the F-15s needed to fly to intercept the hijacked UA175 that hit the south tower. Then after the F-15s took off, they were sent to an area off Long Island in a holding pattern without a target vector. (Touching History by Lynn Spencer, pp. 111 to 113.
F-16s at Langley AFB Virginia had to sit on the runway because FAA in Washington had not gotten the commercial air traffic out of their way and then these jets were sent eastward, 60 miles out to sea more than 150 miles from Washington DC. (Touching History p. 143) 

This ordering the jets out to sea was done by a mysterious source who apparently didn’t occupy the high rung on the ladder. (Air War by Filson, pp. 63 to 66) This was an “inexplicable, indefensible, and a breach of standard procedures.”(War on Truth, by Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed, p. 279) 

There has been no thorough investigation of these delays, nor has anyone at FAA or NORAD been held accountable, let alone disciplined for them. 
The 9/11 Commission manipulated the times of key events. They highlighted the failings at the FAA while downplaying those of NORAD and as noted above, allowed Pentagon officials to lie about NORAD radars as being completely inadequate and therefore could not track the aircraft heading for the White House and Pentagon. Gen. Richard Myers said “we did not have situational awareness inward because we did not have radar coverage.”

This was a lie. This is because radars cover a 360 degree circle. They are not just pointed easterly at the Atlantic Ocean looking for possible incoming Russian jet attacking the US. The government maintains that the radar track for this aircraft was lost over a “radar hole” that exists in the radar coverage map over W. VA., and that as they neither had radio contact with the crew, nor a valid Radar Beacon or IFF code sqwawk coming from the aircraft’s transponders when the track was lost going west.

This was a lie because when and where the government claims the radar track was lost, UA flight 77 was flying virtually directly over an altitude finding military radar system known as FPS-117 that was on top of a ridge. This radar has a nominal range of 200 miles. This radar station was in operation on Sept. 11, 2001, and was not called out in any documentary evidence as being out of commission or off-line that morning, yet the government asserts that a “radar hole” existed in it’s tracking or service volume area that morning.

Gen. Larry Arnold, head of NORAD claimed NORAD didn’t “ have any aircraft on alert at Andrews (MSNBC, 11/23/01). This is false. The Air National Guard at Andrews did have jets, but they answered directly to the Secret Service, which Gen. Arnold knew about. The 9/11 Commission reported that Andrews AFB wasn’t keeping any fighters “on alert.” (Commission report p. 44) The Commission report made no mention of other NORAD units that offered to help and several NORAD pilots telling their bosses at Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) that they wanted to ram the hijacked airliners, meaning sure death for the pilot. “What can we do to help?... Give me ten minutes and I’ll give you hot guns.”

Furthermore the 9/11 Commission report failed to mention that there were already two fighter jets that were in the sky or on the runway stationed at Pomona AFB near Atlantic City, and they were not notified of the emergency. They were close enough to intercept UA 175 only eight minutes away. These jets had bullets but were sent back to their hangers for better armament (most likely air to air missiles). 

At 8:36 am three F-16s assigned to the District of Columbia Air National Guard, took off from Andrews AFB and headed to South to North Carolina. At 9:04 am the Secret Service notified FAA headquarters that it wanted “F-16 to cap (Combat Air Patrol) the airspace over Washington” DC. This was when UA 77 was 200 miles for DC. Fifteen minutes later flight 77 was just 50 miles from out. (Road to 9/11 by P. D. Scott, p. 202). 

At about 9:05 am Maj. Daniel Caine at Andrew AFB, called the Secret Service offering assistance, but they said they didn’t need help. This was after two jets had just hit the World Trade Center. It wasn’t until 9:33 am that Secret Service changed their minds. 

Cheney had stood down anti-aircraft defenses against this incoming aircraft that hit the Pentagon and he delayed ordering General Wherley authorization to get more jets into the skies over Washington. The 9/11 Commission went out of its way to exonerate the Cheney and Bush.

Immediately after the attacks, Cheney order Continuity of Government and the United States moved to partial secret government, suspended the Constitution that morning of 9/11. Cheney was giving orders from Site R, “the underground Pentagon’ sending top officials out of Washington to a remote underground bunker.
(Source: Mounting Evidence: Why We Need a New Investigation into 9/11, by Paul W. Rea, PhD pp. 260 to 270).

The Secret Service, which has been using an air surveillance system called Tigerwall for some time after September 2000, and was tracking both American 77 and United 93 as they approach Washington and assumes the White House is a target. And according to Secret Service agent Barbara Riggs, the agency is “able to receive real time information about other hijacked aircraft,” through “monitoring radar and activating an open line with the FAA.” [US DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY, 9/2000, PP. 28 ; PCCW NEWSLETTER, 3/2006; STAR-GAZETTE (ELMIRA), 6/5/2006]

Riggs will later say, “The Secret Service prepared to defend the facility. [New York Times, 9/12/2001; MSNBC, 9/22/2001; Daily Telegraph, 12/16/2001; Washington Post, 1/27/2002; Associated Press, 8/19/2002; 9/11 Commission, 6/17/2004; PCCW Newsletter, 3/2006]

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context...938clarkeorders
Barnett-Air Force Research Lab-OODA Loop-SAIC, Pentagon VPN Red Team

Secret Service’s Technical Services Division (TSD) operates the Secret Service’s Tigerwall air surveillance system. The TSD timeline states that at 9:18 am “SAIC (Secret Service Special Agent in Charge) Carl Truscott learned that an aircraft had been identified en-route to the Washington area.” Therefore, we have officially prepared documentation that indicates Truscott was aware of a hijacked plane heading for Washington at least 18 minutes before the official account says the vice president was moved from his office. 

The authoritative command system appeared to be below ground in the PEOC (Presidential Emergency Operations Center) where Dick Cheney was leading the activities. The TSD document released by FOIA shows that when Assistant Division Chief Spriggs arrived in the PEOC, at 9:30 am, Cheney and Rice were already there along with ten other “Presidential and Vice Presidential staff.” Carl Truscott was the lead Secret Service agent in the PEOC, the one who was in coordination with Garabito, and the one who was most closely coordinating with Dick Cheney.

These TSD documents confirm that the Secret Service knew that two hijacked planes were headed toward Washington during the time that Cheney and SAIC Truscott were in the PEOC, and well before Flight 77 was reported to have crashed into the Pentagon.

Author Lynn Spencer, who NORAD Commander General Ralph Eberhart says “tells it all and tells it well,” wrote that “the Secret Service also has certain authority over the military and, in this case, the DC Guard.” That is, the Secret Service had the authority to order the scrambling of interceptor jets on 9/11. And of course, with the president indisposed for a brief period, the vice president was the commander in chief of the military.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/03/sec...ansparency.html

After traveling almost 10 miles south of Reagan Airport, the aircraft turns back toward Washington and again appears to be heading for the White House. Padgett tells the Secret Service: “What I’m telling you, buddy, if you’ve got people, you’d better get them out of there! And I mean right goddamned now!” [SPENCER, 2008, PP. 158] 

Secret Service Director Brian Stafford informs counterterrorism “tsar” Richard Clarke, (the National Security Council's counterterrorism advisor), that radar shows an aircraft headed towards the White House and decides to evacuate the complex. [Clarke, 2004, pp. 5]
(People will begin rapidly evacuating from the White House at about 9:45 a.m. [CNN, 9/11/2001; CNN, 9/12/2001]


The data released by the N.T.S.B. from UA 77 ’s Flight Data Recorder (FDR) was faked. 

It shows the aircraft making a 6 G. descending, 360 degree turn and then accelerating 150 knots faster than a 757 could ever possibly fly at that altitude. Also according to the FDR, the yoke and rudder were not pushed during this maneuver. This is impossible. 

The air is too dense at the altitude such that the 757 hit between the first and second floors of the Pentagon. The FDR showed that the jet was flying at 465 knots, but the jet’s engines could not push the aircraft that fast in this denser air. At higher altitudes commercial jets can fly much faster. The flight data recorder also shows jet flying level. It is impossible to fly a 757 in level flight at over 350 knots without the nose going upward. The pilot would lose control of the aircraft. Maybe if the plane was doing a full nose-down dive toward the ground, over 350 knots could be achieved, but the wings would likely break off before the jet hit the ground. 

The FDR also show that when UA 77 descended from higher altitude down below 18,000 feet and the alleged hijacker adjusted the altimeter for the exact pressure for the Washington DC airports. This is impossible because they did not use the radio to contract the airport to get the correct air pressure. The alleged hijackers could not have so precisely guessed the correct altimeter setting as was recording on the FDR.

When the aircraft was allegedly hijacked, the airplane was flying on auto-pilot. The slightest pressure by the pilots on the yoke or rudder petals would have instantly disengage the auto-pilot, if we are to believe the hijackers used force to rip control of the jet away from the pilots. The FDR shows no indication of a struggle and only shows the auto-pilot remained on the whole time the terrorist were taking control of the airplane, turned off the transponders and failed to reply to the air traffic controller - aka lost radio contact with the jet. 

The initial claim by the government as to why the FDR memory stopped recording too high (380 feet above the ground), is that the recorder failed six seconds before impact. This stopping of recording of data is BS. The FDR is designed to keep recording at the very least, 500 milliseconds after building impact, partly due to the fact that the FDR is located on the Boeing 757 aircraft in the tail of the plane. Also 380 feet is too high to have hit the light poles on the approach to the Pentagon.


More that does not add up about United Airlines flight 77.


The two, nearly 7 ton, RB-211, Rolls Royce engines on this plane were an every so solidly predictable 48 feet apart, yet not holes in the Pentagon outer wall were seen. 

Post cleanup of the Pentagon / Department of Defense poured as much as 24 inches of gravel and aggregate in the approach area where the blow-back from the impact with that wall was known to contain Depleted Uranium contamination. How the D.U. got there is a big mystery.
A ‘spook’ U.S. Navy C-130 Hercules flew over the Pentagon and was seen by witnesses directly over head. Later this pilot stated he never got within 4 nautical miles. Why did he lie? 

You don’t just jump into a C-130 and fire it up in a minute and launch. Just the pre-flight would have taken several minutes to perform. In other words, it had it’s orders long before it launched that day. This was a specially equipped ‘spook’ bird, an intelligence asset bird, and like the orbiting E-4B Air Force flying command post, which was in the sky that morning as a part of an Air Force war game/exercise, Amalgam VIRGO and other Air Force exercises before the jets started crashing into buildings on 9/11.

Pilotsfor911truth.org.


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## candycorn (Jan 25, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Two miles is right across the freeway? Do tell?


For a plane traveling 500 mph; you literally cannot watch a TV commercial in the time it would take to transverse it



Dale Smith said:


> Pentagon oversees a huge black budget and they have developed technology anywhere from 50 to 100 years ahead of what is allowed to trickle down to us.


Speculation and nothing else.


Dale Smith said:


> They had technology in place to guard against the Soviets going back to the 60's and if you believe that they don't, you are the one that is dense.


Whatever the technology was, it wasn't AA batteries in the Pentagon or SAMs.  The technology to guard against the Soviets was dozens of miles of coastline and radar.  You see, that is what grown ups call an external threat.  


Dale Smith said:


> Besides, we have Cheney's own words that there was a stand down order...how does that not give you pause for thought?


You have nothing of the sort.  A quote saying "stand down" would be what you need. 


Dale Smith said:


> You have never answered the question of what happened to the wings of the plane


They exploded after knocking down two light poles and the engine of the starboard wing hitting a generator.  The impact with the Pentagon caused the explosion.


Dale Smith said:


> how was it able to arrive at ground level like it did after this talent less pilot that could barely man the control of a Cessna.


It crashed into the building; just like you would expect someone who was aiming for the building to do. 


Dale Smith said:


> BUT!! maybe the most ludicrous part of this charade comes from the so-called " confession video" bin Laden that was released in December. The video is clearly a fake given that it features a bin Laden double, and not a very good one at that.


Pure speculation.


Dale Smith said:


> But what’s really intriguing is that the fake bin Laden mentions the name of nine of the alleged hijackers during the confession. But five of those nine ended up still being alive.


None of them were ever seen alive again.


Dale Smith said:


> Why would the alleged perpetrator of the 9/11 crime give credit to five men who turned out not to be involved and are still alive?


Because they were dead.


Dale Smith said:


> The story that 19 Muslims named by the FBI being responsible for this terrorist act /false flag event and killing themselves in the process simply cannot stand up to scrutiny...none, nada.



It stands up to scrutiny from every angle.

If AA77 didn't hit the Pentagon; what did?  You have to account for the light poles, the DNA found at the scene, the air traffic controllers tracking it to the site, etc....

Good luck; you'll need it.


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## Skylar (Jan 25, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Total bullshit, I gave you a link to a CBS report that exposes the missing TRILLIONS of dollars and the problem has only gotten worse. There is no one so blind as one that will not even try to see.



No, you didn't. You posted a story about inadequate documentation. Which you've consistently misrepresented as 'missing' money'*. Even when you know it isn't. *

Worse, your conspiracy doesn't make the slightest sense. With 911 supposedly committed to cover up the 2.3 trillion is 'missing money'. Which wasn't missing. And the 2.3 in poorly documented transactions were mentioned again and again AFTER 911. as well as before it.

*So where, pray tell, is the cover up?* Per you, they were still reporting on this issue in 2013. With articles in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2009, 2010, and 2013.

So an insanely elaborate, ludicrously complicated conspiracy to cover up these transactions......*.which didn't actually cover anything up? *

That's the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard.



> On 9/11 Cheney ordered the stand down of the air defense missiles around the Pentagon and the Washington DC area



What 'air defense missiles'. And according to who?

Let me guess.....Dr Steve who 'worked at the CIA for 30 year'? There were no 'air defense missiles'. They were installed as a *response* to 911. 



> For the first time since the Cuban missile crisis almost 40 years ago, armed missile launchers will be protecting the nation's capital by day's end Tuesday -- a precaution that comes amid a heightened alert status on the eve of the one-year anniversary of the September 11 attacks.
> 
> CNN - Breaking News, Latest News and Videos



Which you already know, Dale. But *really* hope we don't. As is almost always the case of your 'conspiracy', you intentionally withhold information that you know is immediately relevant to propagate a story you know is inaccurate.



> The jet that hit the Pentagon, United Airlines flight 77 was able to penetrate that highly protected airspace without the proper MODE 4A military I.F.F. response, (indentify friendly or foe – enemy aircraft) and no communications with air traffic control of any kind, no clearance issued of any kind, and yet UA 77 flew a nice leisurely 330 degree turn after passing right past the White House, the more desirable high value target.



The Pentagon is literally 3000 feet, yes FEET from the runways of Ronald Reagan international airport. With one of its main landing strips placing planes on a flight path over the Pentagon:







The idea that the airspace over the pentagon is 'highly protected' that can't be 'penetrated' is a steaming load of horseshit. Any plane approaching Reagan Airport can be over the Pentagon in about 12 seconds. With many flying over the Pentagon as they use the airport.

Your conspiracy is just awful. Stupidly, idiotically awful.


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## Skylar (Jan 25, 2016)

> Immediately after the attacks, Cheney order Continuity of Government and the United States moved to partial secret government, suspended the Constitution that morning of 9/11. Cheney was giving orders from Site R, “the underground Pentagon’ sending top officials out of Washington to a remote underground bunker.
> (Source: Mounting Evidence: Why We Need a New Investigation into 9/11, by Paul W. Rea, PhD pp. 260 to 270).



Show us the evidence. 'Paul W. Rea' saying it must be so isn't evidence.

Minetta never says that he heard a stand down order. Instead, Minetta says that he heard Cheney say the standing order stood. And later, Minetta found out that the standing order was to shoot down a commercial airliner. 


Here's Minetta's testimony:




> Hamilton: "So there very clearly was an order to shoot a commercial aircraft?"
> 
> Minetta:  "Subsequently I found that out".
> 
> Video 3.00 to 3.05



So *what* stand down?

As I've said.....your conspiracy is a stupidly, stupidly awful explanation of events.


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## SAYIT (Jan 25, 2016)

My thanks to all who, despite years of 9/11 "truther" silliness, had the time and the patience to once again confront the half-truths and outright lies which are the basis of every 9/11 CT I have encountered over the past 14+ years.

Frankly, all I have left for these CT idiots is ridicule and disdain because there's just no fixing STUPID.


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## Skylar (Jan 25, 2016)

SAYIT said:


> My thanks to all who, despite years of 9/11 "truther" silliness, had the time and the patience to once again confront the half-truths and outright lies which are the basis of every 9/11 CT I have encountered over the past 14+ years.
> 
> Frankly, all I have left for these CT idiots is ridicule and disdain because there's just no fixing STUPID.



We're say past stupid. These people are fucking liars. They are so emotionally invested in their horseshit that they're intentionally misrepresenting the facts or making shit up.

'Anti-air batteries' around the Pentagon?

The Pentagon airspace 'secure' when one of the landing strips of Ronald Reagan airport 3000 FEET away puts the flight paths of many planes OVER the pentagon?

The entire conspiracy, all the dead, all the faked evidence......to 'cover up' 2.3 trillion 'missing' dollars. That are neither missing nor covered up?

Its layers and layers of stupid. And layers and layers of truther lies.


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## Gamolon (Jan 26, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Dear friends,
> Remember Star Wars? Do you remember the Pentagon's Strategic Defense Initiative to build a massive missile defense system that raised so much controversy during the Reagan and first Bush years? 130 billion of our tax dollars were poured into developing that system. It was designed to detect and intercept missiles fired from an _unknown destination_ traveling at well _over 10 times the speed_ of a commercial airliner, and to shoot them down in 15 minutes or less, before they reached their US targets.
> According the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) website, "a defensive system may need to hit a warhead smaller than an oil drum that is traveling above the atmosphere at speeds greater than 13,000 miles per hour." The CBO report states that missile defense and intercept systems must take down an ICBM in a matter of minutes or it is all over.
> You may remember that before 9/11, there were a number of tests of the Pentagon's missile defense systems. Some tests failed, while others succeeded. But there is an important question here. *If these sophisticated military systems were designed to detect missiles fired from unknown locations at over 13,000 mph and shoot them down in mere minutes, why on 9/11 could they not detect any one of the four large airliners traveling at a mere 600 mph, especially when two of them were known to be lost for over 40 minutes before they crashed?*
> ...



Let me get this straight. You first supply claims of surface to air missile batteries protecting the Pentagon, and when asked for proof, you supply articles that discusses using the detection methods of an undeveloped/unproven defense system?

What's wrong with you? Where is you proof of the surface to air missile surrounding the Pentagon? Is this what you do? Make idiotic claims and then when shown proof to the contrary or asked to supply YOUR proof, you move on to other topics? That's quite cowardly in my book...

Do you have proof that this "Star Wars" system was fully tested and operational on 2001? Was it capable of detecting objects WITHIN the atmosphere? How would the system detect the correct plane?

All this amounts to is more speculation and gibberish from you.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jan 26, 2016)

someone farted in here.^


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## LA RAM FAN (Jan 26, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Skylar said:
> ...



you took paid shill gam and the other trolls to school there,they can only sling shit in defeat like the monkey trolls they are.


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## Skylar (Jan 26, 2016)

Gamolon said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Dear friends,
> ...



Gamolon.......Dale doesn't give a fiddler's fuck if the claim is *actually* true. He's so emotionally invested in his conspiracy theory that he'll gladly offer us misinformation, misrepresentation and outright lies...if it allows him to cling to his stupidly elaborate fantasy.

There's zero evidence of 'anti-air missile batteries' around the Pentagon on 911. Instead, they were added in *response* to 911, a year later.



> We'll take a look at how America and the world remembers 9/11 and how all of our lives have changed over these past 12 months.  But on this anniversary, there are concerns over new attacks against U.S. interests.
> 
> The terror threat level is now at orange and that means the risk of an attack is high. In a sign of increased vigilance, portable air defenses around the nation's capital have been armed. *It is the first time armed missile launchers, the real things, are protecting Washington since the Cuban missile crisis 40 years ago. *
> 
> CNN.com - Transcripts



Which Dale knows of course. But he intentionally withheld.

And you can bet a dime to donuts that Dale will make the same 'missile defense' claim later, when he hopes no one is watching.


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## candycorn (Jan 26, 2016)

Skylar said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Total bullshit, I gave you a link to a CBS report that exposes the missing TRILLIONS of dollars and the problem has only gotten worse. There is no one so blind as one that will not even try to see.
> ...




You may wish to point out to him also that the reasons the WTC and Pentagon were selected is that they are 3 of the largest structures in the nation.


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## Skylar (Jan 26, 2016)

9/11 inside job said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



laughing....with anyone who doesn't drink your truther koolaid a 'paid shill' in your estimation. Its just the old conspiracy axiom:

Anyone who doesn't ape the conspiracy.....becomes part of it.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jan 26, 2016)

someone farted in here.

the handlers of these shills sure alert their employees quickly to come here they get so worried.


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## Dale Smith (Jan 26, 2016)

Gamolon said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Dear friends,
> ...



 You would be absolutely stunned to know about the technology that has been hidden from us that the military industrial complex has at it's disposal but kept hidden because this corporate entity does not have our best interest at heart. Do some research on DARPA and all the neat gadgets that they have come up with like genetic manipulation and mind control that makes MKULTRA seem lame by comparison. While people fret about the day to day doings of the Kardashians, they build bigger and better weapons using nano-technology to keep better survelliance on us "worthless eaters"......the window to stop this total global takeover from happening is closing by the day. They have drones the size of mosquitoes that can inject anything into anyone and these programs have no oversight because they are separate from "da gubermint" that you see publicly and the one that actually calls the shots. There are over 30 security clearances higher than the president and you can look that up. My question is who put this apparatus in charge and where is the oversight?  I certainly didn't sign off on this...did you?


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## Skylar (Jan 26, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Gamolon said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



Ah, so now your argument is that the 'anti-missile batteries' were 'secret', and that's why you can't back a damn thing you've said about them?

How gloriously circular. What doesn't stun me is how much of your stupidly elaborate, ridiculously complicated conspiracy is pulled sideways out of your ass. You have absolutely nothing to back your claim of 'anti-air missiles' that Cheney told to 'stand down'.

Which you knew when you started. But really hoped we didn't.

And instead of admitting that you can't back up your claims.....you double down on batshit. Adding brand new layers of elaboration, new layers of fantastic complexity. DARPA and MKULTRA. With thousands and thousands of *more* people folded into your conspiracy.

*Here's a much simpler explanation: Flight 77 hit the Pentagon. *

No imaginary, super secret missile batteries, non-existent stand down orders, made up 'secure airspace over the Pentagon', no thousands of planted witnesses, no faked flight records, no planted evidence, spontaneous conspiracy involving thousands necessary. 

As I said, your explanation is just awful. Its a horrible, mind-bogglingly bad explanation of events. And you can't back it with anything but more baseless batshit.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jan 26, 2016)

still another fart form the shill.lol


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## Dale Smith (Jan 26, 2016)

Skylar said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Gamolon said:
> ...



You seem to have no critical thinking skills and I can not help you with that. You could drive a platoon of tanks through the holes of the official story. I am not posting here to divide people or get them to support one side or the other of the "left versus right" paradigm. We are up to our arm pits in shit and if we continue to refuse to see what things are, soon we will be drowning in it. I see what has been going on for the last 100 plus years and why we are in the shape we are in in spite of the tremendous advantage we had after the Bretton Woods agreement after WII and the incremental taking down of middle class jobs once they had completed yet another phase of their agenda.The first WTC bombing was staged, the OKC bombing was another false flag and 9/11/01 was the mother of all false flags and psy-op and that is a fact. Whether you chose to accept this or not is your decision.


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## Skylar (Jan 26, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



Making up a stupidly complicated, insanely elaborate conspiracy theory that you can't back with evidence to explain 911 isn't 'critical thinking skills'. Its utterly irrational and hopeless self delusion. Delusion even *you* can't connect to reality.

You insist that Cheney gave a 'stand down order'. Minetta, who was in the room,_ says the opposite. _That the standing order was to shoot the planes down.

You insist that the missile batteries protecting the Pentagon were told to stand down. _There were no missile batteries protecting the Pentagon on 911. _They were added a year later in *response* to 911.

You insisted that the air above the Pentagon was 'some of the most secure airspace in the US'. In reality, the Pentagon is 3000 FEET from Ronald Reagan International airport, with one of its main landing strips putting planes on a flight path that goes OVER the Pentagon.

You insisted that the Pentagon was hit to cover up 2.3 trillion dollars in 'missing money'. The 2.3 trillion wasn't missing, but poorly documented due to old and incompatible data bases. And there were articles on the issue for years AFTER 911. So a 'cover up' that didn't actually cover anything up?
*
At each and every stage your explanation is just stupidly awful. *It doesn't match the evidence, is overwhelmingly contradicted by evidence, often made up whole from nothing, is ludicrously complicated, and fantastically elaborate.
*
This is why folks don't buy the Truther horseshit. Its simply a horrible explanation.* And as your imaginary 'missile air defenses' demonstrate, even you can't connect to reality. You merely imagine it must be so.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jan 26, 2016)

someone farted in here.^


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## LA RAM FAN (Jan 26, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



thats because shills can only shit all over the floor everytime they open their mouths.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jan 26, 2016)

9/11 inside job said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Skylar said:
> ...



he shit on the floor again just now like clockwork.lol


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## Gamolon (Jan 27, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> You would be absolutely stunned to know about the technology that has been hidden from us that the military industrial complex has at it's disposal but kept hidden because this corporate entity does not have our best interest at heart.


Dale,

Your claims and rants here are based on nothing more than fantasy and speculation. Every time you have been challenged on any of your claims, you immediately move on to a different topic and provide no proof of anything You have been called out on the lies that you continue to spread. You have been shown proof that what you are spreading are lies yet you continue. Why is that Dale? Why, when shown your claim or information is wrong, do you continue to say them? Why do you never admit they are wrong? 



Dale Smith said:


> Do some research on DARPA and all the neat gadgets that they have come up with like genetic manipulation and mind control that makes MKULTRA seem lame by comparison. While people fret about the day to day doings of the Kardashians, they build bigger and better weapons using nano-technology to keep better survelliance on us "worthless eaters"......the window to stop this total global takeover from happening is closing by the day. They have drones the size of mosquitoes that can inject anything into anyone and these programs have no oversight because they are separate from "da gubermint" that you see publicly and the one that actually calls the shots. There are over 30 security clearances higher than the president and you can look that up. My question is who put this apparatus in charge and where is the oversight?  I certainly didn't sign off on this...did you?


Why don't YOU do some research instead of stopping when you find information that agrees with what you believe in? You build your claims upon pieces of information and then when you are shown that those pieces are incorrect, you run.Why can't you address them instead of running or changing the subject?


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## Gamolon (Jan 27, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> You seem to have no critical thinking skills and I can not help you with that.


Look in the mirror.



Dale Smith said:


> I am not posting here to divide people or get them to support one side or the other of the "left versus right" paradigm. .


Then why are you here Dale? Why do you continue to post information yet never discuss it?


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## Skylar (Jan 27, 2016)

Gamolon said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > You would be absolutely stunned to know about the technology that has been hidden from us that the military industrial complex has at it's disposal but kept hidden because this corporate entity does not have our best interest at heart.
> ...



Good old Conspiracy Whack-a-mole.



> You have been called out on the lies that you continue to spread. You have been shown proof that what you are spreading are lies yet you continue. Why is that Dale? Why, when shown your claim or information is wrong, do you continue to say them? Why do you never admit they are wrong?



Emotional investment. Dale believes that his conspiracies makes him better. Smarter. More 'evolved'. Thus, when you disprove his conspiracy, you are eroding his self image. And Dale has already demonstrated that he'll gladly lie to protect that image. Clinging to stupidly complicated and fantastically elaborate 'alternative explanations' to such a degree that he'll literally make shit up.

Like, say, anti-air missile batteries around the Pentagon on 911.


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## Skylar (Jan 27, 2016)

9/11 inside job said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



Laughing......you realize that you just responded to and slammed yourself, right?


----------



## Dale Smith (Jan 27, 2016)

For those that are awake, it doesn't take much proof but to those that are still stuck in the matrix and believes in their "benevolent gubermint"? No amount of proof will ever convince them that they have been played and that is the bottom line. When I realized that this corporate entity that has been trying to pass it's self off as a legitimate governmental body was a complete and total fraud, I had some rough days and rough nights. 9/11 was but a blip on the radar when it comes to how we have been played for chumps and fools. They are masters at manipulation and able to play on our patriotism and fears to their advantage. They used it to get us into WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq...next verse, same as the first and yet we never as a unified voice, catch onto this. We are in a very bad way with people controlling and pulling the strings on our lives that believe that they are the "rulers". False flag events have been a reality for centuries using the Hegelian Dialectic..cause, affect, solution. Blame someone or something for a problem you caused....wait for the emotional outcry and then offer a solution to the very problem that you caused that furthers your agenda....time tested and true.


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## candycorn (Jan 27, 2016)

Skylar said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Skylar said:
> ...




I like doing this:

Dale Smith 

Just tell us what you think happened.  No names unless you wish, no dates unless you wish; just in reasonable detail provide a sketch about what you think happened account for what we know; planes hit both towers at the World Trade Center (WTC 1 and WTC 2), there was an explosion at the Pentagon that resulted in plane wreckage being found there, light poles were damaged at the same time (hitting the windshield of a cab as well), and there was an explosion in Shanksville, PA where wreckage from a 4th plane was found.  

If you did spend any time researching this, you have to account for all of the facts.  

These are facts.  We have video of planes hitting the towers, still photos of the plane parts at the Pentagon, the wreckage, and the light poles (I left out the DNA of passengers since you'll just say that DMORT was lying--pictures don't lie), and we have photos of aircraft wreckage in Shanksville.

Can you do that?


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## Skylar (Jan 27, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> For those that are awake, it doesn't take much proof but to those that are still stuck in the matrix and believes in their "benevolent gubermint"? No amount of proof will ever convince them that they have been played and that is the bottom line. When I realized that this corporate entity that has been trying to pass it's self off as a legitimate governmental body was a complete and total fraud, I had some rough days and rough nights. 9/11 was but a blip on the radar when it comes to how we have been played for chumps and fools. They are masters at manipulation and able to play on our patriotism and fears to their advantage. They used it to get us into WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq...next verse, same as the first and yet we never as a unified voice, catch onto this. We are in a very bad way with people controlling and pulling the strings on our lives that believe that they are the "rulers". False flag events have been a reality for centuries using the Hegelian Dialectic..cause, affect, solution. Blame someone or something for a problem you caused....wait for the emotional outcry and then offer a solution to the very problem that you caused that furthers your agenda....time tested and true.



Dale, making up none existent 'missile batteries' isn't being 'awake'.

Pretending that 2.3 trillion dollars in transactions that are poorly documented is 2.3 trillion dollars being 'missing' isn't being 'awake'.

Imagining that the Airfones installed on flight 77 didn't work when Airfone confirms that they did....isn't being 'awake.'

Pretending that the Pentagon was 'some of the most secure airspace in America' when it had an public airport 3000 FEET away isn't being 'awake'.

*Your explanation is just awful. Stupidly, irrationally, elaborately and pointlessly awful. *It doesn't match the evidence, is contradicted by overwhelming evidence, and doesn't make the slightest sense. No matter how many times you type 'gubermint'.


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## candycorn (Jan 27, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> For those that are awake, it doesn't take much proof but to those that are still stuck in the matrix....


Is that you CD?  You've done this "matrix" shit before.



Dale Smith said:


> and believes in their "benevolent gubermint"? No amount of proof will ever convince them that they have been played and that is the bottom line.


Wow...so the fact that you cannot produce one shred of proof to back up a single claim you've made is somehow the "gubermint's" fault? 

Here's is a small clue that may help you as you stumble through what I'm sure will be a fruitful life; stop referring to the government as the "gubermit"; you sound like a fucking idiot and this is BEFORE you get to your asinine theories.



Dale Smith said:


> When I realized that this corporate entity that has been trying to pass it's self off as a legitimate governmental body was a complete and total fraud, I had some rough days and rough nights. 9/11 was but a blip on the radar when it comes to how we have been played for chumps and fools. They are masters at manipulation and able to play on our patriotism and fears to their advantage.


Again, the mysterious "they"....If we go down this road; I'm sure that we will hear all about bankers and the occult ultimately ending in blaming the jews for at least part of it.



Dale Smith said:


> They used it to get us into WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq...next verse, same as the first and yet we never as a unified voice, catch onto this.


One would think that you could predict the "next move" if you knew so much....that you can't is telling.



Dale Smith said:


> We are in a very bad way with people controlling and pulling the strings on our lives that believe that they are the "rulers". False flag events have been a reality for centuries using the Hegelian Dialectic..cause, affect, solution. Blame someone or something for a problem you caused....wait for the emotional outcry and then offer a solution to the very problem that you caused that furthers your agenda....time tested and true.



Much like a certain group of people whom, when you ask them what happened on 9/11, tell you that they don't know because they don't have the information (somehow everyone else does).  Yet the same group of people have no problems making all sorts of allegations based on the same lack of information.


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## Gamolon (Jan 27, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> For those that are awake, it doesn't take much proof but to those that are still stuck in the matrix and believes in their "benevolent gubermint"? No amount of proof will ever convince them that they have been played and that is the bottom line. When I realized that this corporate entity that has been trying to pass it's self off as a legitimate governmental body was a complete and total fraud, I had some rough days and rough nights. 9/11 was but a blip on the radar when it comes to how we have been played for chumps and fools. They are masters at manipulation and able to play on our patriotism and fears to their advantage. They used it to get us into WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq...next verse, same as the first and yet we never as a unified voice, catch onto this. We are in a very bad way with people controlling and pulling the strings on our lives that believe that they are the "rulers". False flag events have been a reality for centuries using the Hegelian Dialectic..cause, affect, solution. Blame someone or something for a problem you caused....wait for the emotional outcry and then offer a solution to the very problem that you caused that furthers your agenda....time tested and true.


For those that pay attention, you will notice that Dale (and other truthers) like to post what they like to believe is evidence that supports their beliefs, but when shown that their evidence is either a lie or cherry-picked quotes, they run away. A number of Dale's claims were proven to be incorrect and short sighted because he refused to research further. He parrots the misinformation of other liked minded people because as soon as he reads an opinion or piece of evidence that supports his own beliefs, he ceases to go further.

This is exactly why he plays the "no amount of evidence will change their mind", "they've been brainwashed", or "I'm not hear to change anyone's mind" cards. He sees the proof and quickly tries to divert attention to another topic to bury the previous discussion. 

Why don't you discuss the proof provided that shows many of your claims to be garbage Dale?

Talk about closed minded...


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## Dale Smith (Feb 1, 2016)

Gamolon said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > For those that are awake, it doesn't take much proof but to those that are still stuck in the matrix and believes in their "benevolent gubermint"? No amount of proof will ever convince them that they have been played and that is the bottom line. When I realized that this corporate entity that has been trying to pass it's self off as a legitimate governmental body was a complete and total fraud, I had some rough days and rough nights. 9/11 was but a blip on the radar when it comes to how we have been played for chumps and fools. They are masters at manipulation and able to play on our patriotism and fears to their advantage. They used it to get us into WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq...next verse, same as the first and yet we never as a unified voice, catch onto this. We are in a very bad way with people controlling and pulling the strings on our lives that believe that they are the "rulers". False flag events have been a reality for centuries using the Hegelian Dialectic..cause, affect, solution. Blame someone or something for a problem you caused....wait for the emotional outcry and then offer a solution to the very problem that you caused that furthers your agenda....time tested and true.
> ...



No, I do not believe that any of my claims about that day are "garbage".  I am not "close minded" because I was once like the ones that are attacking me here now...so I don't have anything against any of you. What went on that day is simply an accumulative effect that has led us to this total police state while our borders remained unprotected. If there was really a terrorist threat that put our way of life in peril? They would have started securing the borders the day after that event...but they didn't. What they did do was incrementally start whittling  away at our right to privacy and liberties...the very thing the power elite claimed that the "terrorists" wanted to take away from us. It's called the Hegelian Dialectic...cause, effect and solution which has been used for centuries against  the meager masses.. It is as plain as day to me about what happened to us that day...now....but 12 plus years ago? Nothing could have changed my mind and I held on to that illusion for 12 years. So feel free to hurl the insults and dispersions because after all, it's your cyber dime. I simply choose to live in reality and if you could only walk a mere 100 steps in my shoes knowing what a fraud of a system we have lived under like I know we have, the blinders would be off. You will have to make your own way. I can't make you drink from the well as I can only try to lead you to it.


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## candycorn (Feb 1, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Gamolon said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



Yes, they are garbage and yes, you are close minded.

But you can still convince us...just write down in reasonable detail; what happened on that day accounting for the known facts.

Flight 11 took off
Flight 175 took off
Flight 93 took off
Flight 77 took off

We saw conclusive evidence that planes hit WTC 1 and WTC 2.  

We know WTC 1, 2, and 7 collapsed.

We know that there was an explosion at the Pentagon and in SW Pennsylvania.  Wreckage was found there.   

We know that light poles outside of the Pentagon were knocked down and hit a cab.  

Nobody from any of those 4 flights were ever heard from again.  

There are other pieces of evidence such as phone calls, radar tracking, all of the flight school receipts, etc but the colored text above has to be accounted for since those are all facts.  

Here is your chance to convince us all!!!!!

GO 4 IT


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## rightwinger (Feb 1, 2016)

Planes flew into the WTC towers and they fell down

Buildings without planes flying into them tend to remain standing


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## Dale Smith (Feb 1, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> Planes flew into the WTC towers and they fell down
> 
> Buildings without planes flying into them tend to remain standing


 What plane hit building 7? Why did building 6 look like it was scooped out with an ice cream scooper with the exterior walls standing and it was closer to WTC 1 and 2 than WTC building 7 was?


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## Dale Smith (Feb 1, 2016)

candycorn said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Gamolon said:
> ...


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## candycorn (Feb 1, 2016)

Same old same old....I win again


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## rightwinger (Feb 1, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Planes flew into the WTC towers and they fell down
> ...



Never seen a jet plane hit a building and have that building remain standing


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## Gamolon (Feb 1, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> No, I do not believe that any of my claims about that day are "garbage".


Yes Dale, they are garbage. You have presented so-called "facts" in this very thread that have been countered. Every time this has been done, instead of admitting your claim was wrong, you ignore the evidence presented and move on to other topics.

Perfect example. You claim of the towers falling in their own footprints. I provided damaged radius drawings and photos that show this particular claim to be GARBAGE.



Dale Smith said:


> I am not "close minded"


Yes you are! Very much so. You refuse to discuss the evidence provided that refute your claims and instead choose to move onto other topics without first finishing the others you brought up. How many different claims have you brought into this thread alone? All left hanging there without any responses. Instead, you choose to plug your ears and yell "la, la, la, la".


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## rightwinger (Feb 1, 2016)

Every time a jet airplane has hit a building, that building  has fallen down


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 1, 2016)

the newest paid shill USMB'S resident troll rightwinger is now here to troll.lol. bty agent rightwinger, your the funniest dude alive,even after it was announced everywhere across the country the rams are going back to LA,the very next day you STILL were incapable of admitting you were proven wrong.

thats how this troll debates,doesnt matter what the topic is,wheter you prove him wrong about 9/11 or a simple thing like the Rams are going back to LA he is ALWAYS incapable of admitting he was proven wrong.

again he was saying the very next day to me the Rams were still playing in st louis this year.

better go tell that to the national media agent rightwinger since they are telling the whole country they are in LA now

I take him to school every day handing his ass to him on a platter wheter its about 9/11,the JFK assassination or the rams being back in LA.

he is INCAPABLE of ever admitting he is wrong no matter what the topic is.lol


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## rightwinger (Feb 1, 2016)

9/11 inside job said:


> the newest paid shill USMB'S resident troll rightwinger is now here to troll.lol. bty agent rightwinger, your the funniest dude alive,even after it was announced everywhere across the country the rams are going back to LA,the very next day you STILL were incapable of admitting you were proven wrong.
> 
> thats how this troll debates,doesnt matter what the topic is,wheter you prove him wrong about 9/11 or a simple thing like the Rams are going back to LA he is ALWAYS incapable of admitting he was proven wrong.
> 
> ...


Still buying the Rams/LA Hoax?


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 1, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > the newest paid shill USMB'S resident troll rightwinger is now here to troll.lol. bty agent rightwinger, your the funniest dude alive,even after it was announced everywhere across the country the rams are going back to LA,the very next day you STILL were incapable of admitting you were proven wrong.
> ...



i rest my case.you just showed off to the whole world
there that your incapable of ever admitting  it when you have been proven wrong.

thanks for helping me rest my case  that you are indeed USMB's resident troll that your logic is I am right and everyone else in the world is wrong.

oh since you are right and everyone else in the world is wrong,you better go tell coach jeff fisher and the rest of the rams players to stop looking for homes in LA and to stop selling their homes in st louis oh and more importantly,you better call the ESPN network and tell them john gruden made a mistake yesterday in the pro bowl saying -todd gurley of the now LOS ANGELES Rams since you are always right,and the whole world is wrong on this same as me.

you need to start a comedy club paid troll you sure are good for laughs.


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## Dale Smith (Feb 2, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> Every time a jet airplane has hit a building, that building  has fallen down



So which plane hit building 7?


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## SAYIT (Feb 2, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Every time a jet airplane has hit a building, that building  has fallen down
> ...



No one said a plane hit 7 and how does that question explain your inability (or unwillingness) to deal with the fact that 2 planes hit the Towers igniting the chaotic fires that brought them down? Their collapse severely damaged other nearby structures - proving they did not "fall in their own footprint as you so often claim - which led to 7's fires and ultimate collapse.

This isn't rocket science we are discussing. Many would eagerly join your 9/11 CT Movement but the misrepresentations, half-truths, outright lies and paranoid lunacy of people like you have destroyed what little credibility it once had.

Why is it so difficult for you to deal honestly and rationally with the facts?

"I thought the term ‘Truth Movement’ meant that there’d be some search for truth. I was wrong." - Charlie Veitch, former "Truther" royalty


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## Dale Smith (Feb 2, 2016)

Gamolon said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > No, I do not believe that any of my claims about that day are "garbage".
> ...




I beg to differ on that, my friend..... you claim that the buildings falling down in almost perfect symmetry never really happened even though the video says differently. Did some of the falling debris hit other buildings surrounding the twin towers? Certainly, but they were not that fragile that they would be gutted like Building 6 and you know why? Because that building had an explosion of it's own and it happened right around the time that the south tower was hit by the alleged plane. It was hollowed out but yet the exterior walls remained..a crater that goes all the way to the basement is there for all to see. Your "damage radius" means nothing since explosives were planted in other buildings and the pictures and video from that day bears me out. I have the book "Debunking 9/11 Myths" that was put out by "Popular Mechanics"...it was my bible when I was busting on truthers and I bought the bullshit because I wanted to believe it. They claim that Building 7 had over 42,000 gallons of diesel in case the need to back up 14 generators lest they have a "black out"...seriously? they stored this fuel on the upper floors? I don't buy this shit anymore but obviously you do and that is your right. I don't at all. You don't buy that the pentagon has secured airspace while I do but one thing that we should both be able to agree on is that there should be more video available than the 4 frames that they released where the alleged plane hit the south side of the Pentagon without marring the landscape and somewhere there should be video or pictures of the wings and tail section out on the Pentagon lawn somewhere, no? Like I said, you buy the official story, I no longer do and the reason for the need to have this false flag event and  why we live in a police state with a totally unsecured borders is totally obvious to me. It's the quintessential Hegelian Dialectic....cause, affect, solution...keep the huddled masses afraid while whittling away at their privacy and liberties all in the  name of "keeping them safe"....and I am calling bullshit on that.


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## Dale Smith (Feb 2, 2016)

SAYIT said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


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## Dale Smith (Feb 2, 2016)

SAYIT said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


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## Dale Smith (Feb 2, 2016)

9/11 inside job said:


> the newest paid shill USMB'S resident troll rightwinger is now here to troll.lol. bty agent rightwinger, your the funniest dude alive,even after it was announced everywhere across the country the rams are going back to LA,the very next day you STILL were incapable of admitting you were proven wrong.
> 
> thats how this troll debates,doesnt matter what the topic is,wheter you prove him wrong about 9/11 or a simple thing like the Rams are going back to LA he is ALWAYS incapable of admitting he was proven wrong.
> 
> ...



You nailed the Rams going back to LA and seriously, that is where they have always belonged...never felt right calling them the "St.Louis Rams" but the more shit I learn, the less importance sports are in my world. I can't believe that anyone in this day and age believes a fucking thing from the Warren Commission concerning the JFK public murder especially since it was full of people that wanted to see JFK dead...some people just do not have any intellectual curiosity and want to believe in their benevolent and all knowing "gubermint" that has made them indentured debt slaves paying them a fiat currency that isn't worth the paper it is written on...but what are ya gonna do?....(sigh)


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 2, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > the newest paid shill USMB'S resident troll rightwinger is now here to troll.lol. bty agent rightwinger, your the funniest dude alive,even after it was announced everywhere across the country the rams are going back to LA,the very next day you STILL were incapable of admitting you were proven wrong.
> ...



you might want to tell agent rightwinger that they are back in LA what you just told me since i can never get through to him.

yeah because our government is so corrupt,i dont get into football anymore like i used to,used to be that i never missed a monday night game but i learned last year the NFL is as corrupt as our government is,that their games are as phony and as rigged as  pro wrestling.

I'll still watch the Rams game though only because their uniform colors they always wore in LA are the coolest looking in the world. thats the ONLY reason,nothing else,wont get into the winning losing thing knowing they are rigged. yeah st louis rams was the most childish name to call an NFL football team.that god a wrong has finally been righted,let me know what agent rightwinger says when YOU try and tell him he was wrong and I am right that they are back okay?

got to watch it once in a while to get your mind off how corrupt out government is.many people dont understand that the jfk assassination and 9/11 events are all connected with some of the same players involved such as Bush sr.


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 2, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Gamolon said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...


agent gam always ignores that the book debunking the 9/11 debunking,an answer to popular mechanics and other defenders of the official conspiracy theory by david ray griffin has debunked that book and proven it was an inside job.


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## IsaacNewton (Feb 2, 2016)

The answer is FAR more sinister than anything in thread. 

Our enemies have figured out how to harness...GRAVITY. "Oh universe why dost thou conspire agin us?"


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## Gamolon (Feb 3, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> I beg to differ on that, my friend..... you claim that the buildings falling down in almost perfect symmetry never really happened


So symmetry is a characteristic of controlled demolition? Do I have to link videos of demolitions that show non-symmetrical collapses? What exactly is your point here?



Dale Smith said:


> even though the video says differently. Did some of the falling debris hit other buildings surrounding the twin towers? Certainly,


So you admit that your claim of "falling into their own footprint" is incorrect? Because "falling into their own footprint" would mean that all the debris would have fallen into a 208' x 208' square (the footprint of the towers)? And since you admit "falling debris hit other buildings", that means they DIDN'T fall into their own footprint. Isn't one of the characteristics of a controlled demolition that debris is contained? Your argument is falling apart Dale.



Dale Smith said:


> but they were not that fragile


Nobody said they were "fragile". Quite putting words into my mouth.



Dale Smith said:


> that they would be gutted like Building 6 and you know why?


That's what happens when debris falls into that area. Do you see perimeter columns from the towers in the center?



Dale Smith said:


> Because that building had an explosion of it's own and it happened right around the time that the south tower was hit by the alleged plane.


Where's the link to evidence of this claim? I'm sorry Dale, but your word means nothing to me. You need to start posting link and evidence to your claim. That's how debate works here.



Dale Smith said:


> It was hollowed out but yet the exterior walls remained..a crater that goes all the way to the basement is there for all to see.


Right. Caused by impacting debris.



Dale Smith said:


> Your "damage radius" means nothing since explosives were planted in other buildings and the pictures and video from that day bears me out.


My damage radius PROVES your claim of "falling into their own footprint" was bogus. Sorry Dale.



Dale Smith said:


> I have the book "Debunking 9/11 Myths" that was put out by "Popular Mechanics"...it was my bible when I was busting on truthers and I bought the bullshit because I wanted to believe it. They claim that Building 7 had over 42,000 gallons of diesel in case the need to back up 14 generators lest they have a "black out"...seriously? they stored this fuel on the upper floors? I don't buy this shit anymore but obviously you do


Dale, I don't use Popular Mechanics nor have I ever referenced it. Stop with the false accusations/insinuations.



Dale Smith said:


> and that is your right. I don't at all. You don't buy that the pentagon has secured airspace while I do


You have yet to provide any link or source that says there are missile batteries around the Pentagon. So no, I don't believe it.



Dale Smith said:


> but one thing that we should both be able to agree on is that there should be more video available than the 4 frames that they released where the alleged plane hit the south side of the Pentagon without marring the landscape and somewhere there should be video or pictures of the wings and tail section out on the Pentagon lawn somewhere, no?


Why do you think that? What cameras were pointed to that specific location when the plane stuck? What makes you think that there should be pieces laying around like you think? What evidence are you using to come to that conclusion? Are you looking at similar impacts that show large pieces of plane laying around?



Dale Smith said:


> Like I said, you buy the official story, I no longer do and the reason for the need to have this false flag event and  why we live in a police state with a totally unsecured borders is totally obvious to me. It's the quintessential Hegelian Dialectic....cause, affect, solution...keep the huddled masses afraid while whittling away at their privacy and liberties all in the  name of "keeping them safe"....and I am calling bullshit on that.


And all your claims are based on assumptions. How many links have you provided that show what you claim is correct? You claimed the hole in the Pentagon was too small yet I provided information to you that shows you to be incorrect. You didn;t even respond to it. Like I said. You're not open minded at all. All you do is provide your "evidence" and when further evidence is provided to refute your claims, you run to other topics and continue to claim everything is bullcrap. How is that open minded Dale? You never stick to one topic.


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## Gamolon (Feb 3, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


>


Do you notice something strange in the video you linked above? Did you notice that WTC7 is BACKWARDS in that video? The penthouse was on the LEFT, not the right.

Do you enjoy posting faked/hoaxed videos to try and further your beliefs Dale? Is this just another instance of you ceasing to research any further because you found something that agreed with what you believe? One has to think so because if you DID research further, you would have found this.


Just pathetic...


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## Gamolon (Feb 3, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


>


Dale,

Where are the "flashes" from explosions in this video like we see in the cell phone video you posted above? And the penthouse mysteriously switched sides?!


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## Skylar (Feb 3, 2016)

Gamolon said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > I beg to differ on that, my friend..... you claim that the buildings falling down in almost perfect symmetry never really happened
> ...



Another major hole in the 'controlled demolition' theory.....is that the collapse of the towers looks nothing like it. Actual controlled demolition starts at the bottom, with the main supports of the building destroyed with cutter charges and kicker charges firing up the height of the building to break it up.* So all of the building falls at the exact same time.*

The towers fell in exactly OPPOSITE that manner.

The collapse initiated at the point of impact with the planes. And then proceeded downward, one floor at a time, all the way to the ground. That means that each floor was destroyed individually. Increasing the number of explosives necessary in 'controlled demolition' by orders of magnitude. Which leads into the second major hole in the demolition theory:

*The lack of cut girders.* Explosive demolition uses cutter charges to literally slice through structural supports. With the building coming down top to bottom and every floor destroyed individually.....that's 249 outer panels and 47 core columns per floor...... 91 floors to the ground in one tower and 79 to the ground in the other, means more than 50,000 individual charges and cuts in the structure of the building.

Yet none of the girders were cut. We see bent girders. We see twisted girders. We see bowed girders. We don't see any cuts.

*When the 'explosive demolition' theory mandates more than 50,000. *

And no need to soften your language, Gam. *The bomb theory is straight up, 100% natural, pure organic bullshit. *


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## Dale Smith (Feb 3, 2016)

Gamolon said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > I beg to differ on that, my friend..... you claim that the buildings falling down in almost perfect symmetry never really happened
> ...



You haven't posted anything that has given me pause for thought in the slightest because remember, I use to be just like you. False flag events have been used since the beginning of time and USA.INC isn't any different. Every war America has ever gotten involved in has had a false flag...take WWI...the sinking of the Lusitania wasn't done by Germany...it had explosives planted on it and it was indeed loaded down with ammunition btw. WWII, the Japanese code had been broken in January of 1941 but yet Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen in order to get the subservient debt slaves to sign up for the war that was caused by the same banking oligarch families that own your ass today via your birth certificate. There would have been no Nazi Germany without Wall Street, the Rockefellers, Harrimans and Bush crime families, etc, etc. They reaped huge war profits on the back of slave labor. The uber rich always hedge their bets and when many of the Third Reich vacated Germany? Under Operation Paperclip these rich elites picked over the remains and brought thousands of Nazis using the Vatican ratline to bring them here and whitewash their backgrounds and put them in places like the rocket program and the OSS that later became the CIA. The Third Reich did not lose the war, they simply relocated. The Gulf of Tonkin incident we now know never happened. We now know that the CIA was in on the JFK  murder.  The first WTC in 1993 bombing was an FBI sting that knowingly allowed an Egyptian operative to use live explosives for that attack but he got wise to this and wore a wire because he knew he was being set up to be the patsy. The OKC Murrah building bombing in 1995 was another false flag event and I would be more than happy to share with you all the things I have learned about that disgusting event.
9/11/01 was most definitely a planned event and for a multitude of reasons because I have done the reading and research because this is all I do. We have been played and our emotions played on while surrendering more and more freedoms and liberties under the UCC we are actually under....just most people do not understand it...I do. The federal "gubermint" in Washington D.C is a corporate entity and their jurisdiction is only within the city state that is the District of Columbia. As with any false flag event, always follow the money and what stands to be gained from it. "Terrorism" legislation that infringes on our right to privacy and the money to be made from implementing a total police state while leaving the borders totally unprotected while overtly and covertly flying in muslim refugees should give you a clue...no?


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## Dale Smith (Feb 3, 2016)

Skylar said:


> Gamolon said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...


 Dude, seriously...you are absolutely clueless......stop trying to "piggyback" off of your "me too" pal....it makes you look desperate....sheeesh.


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## Skylar (Feb 3, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> > Gamolon said:
> ...



Notice how you don't actually address any of the truck sized holes in the 'explosive demolition' theory.

1) How the towers came down exactly opposite of explosive demolition.

2) The absurdity of planting and hiding 50,000 cutter charges and their apparatus in an occupied building.

3) And the complete and utter lack of any cut girders, despite the explosive demolition theory  requiring tens of thousands of them.

But pretending that these theory killing holes doesn't exist doesn't magically make them disappear. You can close your eyes, but you can't make *us* unsee just how awful your explanation is.


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## Dale Smith (Feb 3, 2016)

Skylar said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Skylar said:
> ...



It would not take 50,000 cutter charges to bring either one of the two twin towers. If you watch the videos of that event, you can see the "squibs" that are going off ten floors below the free fall. Both buildings were built to withstand a jet impact and to think that this alleged impact caused them to crumble to the ground in free fall fashion within hours is simply ludicrous now that I have educated myself....you might want to try it....open your eyes because things are not quite what they seem.


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## Skylar (Feb 3, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



You clearly have no idea how actual controlled demolition works. First off, its bottom to top. With the structural supports being taken out at the bottom and kicker charges breaking up the building so it all falls together.

That's not how the towers fell *at all*. *The towers fell top to bottom. With each floor destroyed, one at a time. *Exactly opposite of controlled demolition. The supports on each floor would have to be destroyed. All 47 core columns and 249 outer panels.

Second, when an ACTUAL squib goes off, that section of the building falls like a train dropped from the sky. But your version of a 'squib' fires. And then....nothing. Nothing falls at the point of the explosion. Its not until the debris field reaches the location of the 'squib' that the location actually collapses.

Um, Dale....that's nothing like controlled demolition.

*And of course, there are no cut girders*. Controlled demolition cuts girders. The explosive demolition theory requiring 10s of thousands. And you have none. 

That's layers and layers of obvious contradiction to your theory. And you close your eyes to all of it, pretending none of it exists. Why? Because 'nothing can convince you'. Says who? Says you.

But why would a rational person ignore what you do?


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## Dale Smith (Feb 3, 2016)

Numerous witnesses including firefighters attested to the fact that they heard a series of explosions in sequence...why don't you hunt them down and tell them that they didn't witness or hear what they did because after all, you know better....m'kay?


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## Dale Smith (Feb 3, 2016)

Skylar said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Skylar said:
> ...


 Comments?


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## Skylar (Feb 3, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



Sigh...._another _subject change? 

Why is it whenever you point out huge, theory kiilling holes in the truther's conspiracy........they just switch to another topic?

You need to open your eyes, Dale. And realize that the towers came down exactly opposite of controlled demolition. That the idea of hiding 50,000+ explosive charges in occupied buildings is ludicrous. And that there were no cut girders. Which eliminates explosive demolition as even a possibility.


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## Skylar (Feb 3, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Numerous witnesses including firefighters attested to the fact that they heard a series of explosions in sequence...why don't you hunt them down and tell them that they didn't witness or hear what they did because after all, you know better....m'kay?



And explosions are common in building fires. What you need to explain is:

1) Why the towers came down the exact opposite of controlled demolition if it was 'controlled demolition'

2) How 50,000 charges could have been plausibly hidden in an occupied building. That would include both the installation, keeping them hidden, and the absolute lack of any evidence of explosive demolition afterward.

3) Why there were no cut girders, despite the explosive demolition theory requiring 10s of thousands of them.


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## SAYIT (Feb 3, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



 So in addition to the myriad of patently false, unsubstantiated and easily refuted claims you have made, in response to having had your last YouTube blow up in your face you:

a) admit you were duped by the video hoax and slither away with your ignorant tail between your legs or;

b) move on to another subject without even a nanosecond of reflection on how silly, pointless and mendacious you've made yourself and your "Truther" cause look.

The question isn't really which course you chose but why ... why would you eagerly choose to make yourself look silly?


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## Skylar (Feb 3, 2016)

Gamolon said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



I told them that video was ridiculously unlikely. Just appearing out of no where 12 years after the event with a level of clarity that no cell phone in 2001 would have had, recording audio that no other video ever recorded?

Occam's Razor again.


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## Skylar (Feb 3, 2016)

SAYIT said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Skylar said:
> ...



Is there anything to Dale but running from his own horseshit?

I mean, if the truthers are about 'truth'.....why is so much of their argument demonstrably false?


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## SAYIT (Feb 3, 2016)

Skylar said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



If made to guess I'd say masochism. They must enjoy looking and feeling like silly children but in their defense, their silliness has exposed what is left of the movement for the wasteland it has always been.


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## Gamolon (Feb 4, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> You haven't posted anything that has given me pause for thought in the slightest because remember,


Really? You mean you'll continue to post bogus claims and evidence? How quaint. Are you going to acknowledge that you posted a faked/hoaxed video of WTC7 as evidence of explosives? I would like to know how that slipped through your keen sense of truth after having researched 9/11 for as long and hard as you claim.

Like I said, you seem to stop your researching as soon as you find something that matches your beliefs and then pass it on to others without even thinking about it.

That's pathetic.



Dale Smith said:


> I use to be just like you.


You mean you USED to research all aspects of a claim and then make a decision about it instead of passing it on even though it's faked/hoaxed.

Come on Dale. You tried to pass on a faked/hoaxed video and got caught with your pants down. I'd like to see you explain your way out of this.

You refuse to discuss ANYTHING that goes against what you believe. That is close minded.


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## Gamolon (Feb 4, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Both buildings were built to withstand a jet impact and to think that this alleged impact caused them to crumble to the ground in free fall fashion within hours is simply ludicrous now that I have educated myself....you might want to try it....open your eyes because things are not quite what they seem.


Another false claim!!!!

Come on Dale, this is getting old.

The buildings DID withstand the impact. They stood for how long after the planes impacted them? Any ideas?

They collapsed due to damage to the buildings CAUSED by the impacts and the subsequent fires that further weakened the already weakened structure.

You just keep getting things wrong Dale.


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## Gamolon (Feb 4, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Numerous witnesses including firefighters attested to the fact that they heard a series of explosions in sequence...why don't you hunt them down and tell them that they didn't witness or hear what they did because after all, you know better....m'kay?


Why don't YOU hunt them down and ask what they think caused the sounds like explosions? You're the one who is interpreting what caused them, not them. They said they heard what sounded like explosions. Many things explode in a fire. Many things can sound like explosions that AREN'T from explosives.

Nice try.


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## Dale Smith (Feb 4, 2016)

Like I have said MANY times before...I respect your right to not believe that 9/11 was an orchestrated event but yet you and your "cling on" pals can't seem to respond in kind...why is that? I would wager my life on the fact that  USA.INC was behind this event along with the Mossad and Saudi Intel because it served a greater purpose. I could easily riducule you and your pals about your lack of knowledge on how the system really works and how this indentured servitude was put in place with the Chapter 11 bankruptcy of 1933 but you don't have the knowledge that I do therefor it wouldn't be fair to take potshots at you and your little pals. You may get all weepy-eyed when you hear the National Anthem and believe in the good ol US of A and look at the flag as a symbol of freedom but I know differently and I have an understanding of how things really are that you couldn't even wrap your mind around. There is going to be a horrific event that is going to totally change life in an even more horrific way than it is now. We have rampant unemployment and under employment. 71 percent of the people that even have a job make less than 50K a year and 50K is chump change. 51 percent make leass than 30K and 38 percent made less than 20K. The dollar is facing a collapse that will make the crisis of 2008 seem like a mother's kiss and it is all by design. They have been watering down our nationalism with legal and illegal immigration while imposing draconian survelliance measures using the excuse that it has to be this way to "keep us safe". It is simply the Hegelian Dialectic "cause, affect, solution". Create the problem, wait for the emotional outcry and then propose a solution that gives "da gubermint" (that is corporate, by the way) more and more control over your privacy and liberties. BTW, you have never even broached the topic that if there was a legitimate terrorist threat, why wasn't the southern and northern borders secured? Hell, if you can fog a mirror and make it over the border, not only can you stay but  "da gubermint" will give you a stipened and a place to live....imagine that?


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## Skylar (Feb 4, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Like I have said MANY times before...I respect your right to not believe that 9/11 was an orchestrated event but yet you and your "cling on" pals can't seem to respond in kind...why is that? I would wager my life on the fact that  USA.INC was behind this event along with the Mossad and Saudi Intel because it served a greater purpose. I could easily riducule you and your pals about your lack of knowledge on how the system really works and how this indentured servitude was put in place with the Chapter 11 bankruptcy of 1933 but you don't have the knowledge that I do therefor it wouldn't be fair to take potshots at you and your little pals. You may get all weepy-eyed when you hear the National Anthem and believe in the good ol US of A and look at the flag as a symbol of freedom but I know differently and I have an understanding of how things really are that you couldn't even wrap your mind around. There is going to be a horrific event that is going to totally change life in an even more horrific way than it is now. We have rampant unemployment and under employment. 71 percent of the people that even have a job make less than 50K a year and 50K is chump change. 51 percent make leass than 30K and 38 percent made less than 20K. The dollar is facing a collapse that will make the crisis of 2008 seem like a mother's kiss and it is all by design. They have been watering down our nationalism with legal and illegal immigration while imposing draconian survelliance measures using the excuse that it has to be this way to "keep us safe". It is simply the Hegelian Dialectic "cause, affect, solution". Create the problem, wait for the emotional outcry and then propose a solution that gives "da gubermint" (that is corporate, by the way) more and more control over your privacy and liberties. BTW, you have never even broached the topic that if there was a legitimate terrorist threat, why wasn't the southern and northern borders secured? Hell, if you can fog a mirror and make it over the border, not only can you stay but  "da gubermint" will give you a stipened and a place to live....imagine that?



Why did you offer us a clearly fraudulent, manufactured, and fake video of WTC 7?


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## Dale Smith (Feb 4, 2016)

Skylar said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Like I have said MANY times before...I respect your right to not believe that 9/11 was an orchestrated event but yet you and your "cling on" pals can't seem to respond in kind...why is that? I would wager my life on the fact that  USA.INC was behind this event along with the Mossad and Saudi Intel because it served a greater purpose. I could easily riducule you and your pals about your lack of knowledge on how the system really works and how this indentured servitude was put in place with the Chapter 11 bankruptcy of 1933 but you don't have the knowledge that I do therefor it wouldn't be fair to take potshots at you and your little pals. You may get all weepy-eyed when you hear the National Anthem and believe in the good ol US of A and look at the flag as a symbol of freedom but I know differently and I have an understanding of how things really are that you couldn't even wrap your mind around. There is going to be a horrific event that is going to totally change life in an even more horrific way than it is now. We have rampant unemployment and under employment. 71 percent of the people that even have a job make less than 50K a year and 50K is chump change. 51 percent make leass than 30K and 38 percent made less than 20K. The dollar is facing a collapse that will make the crisis of 2008 seem like a mother's kiss and it is all by design. They have been watering down our nationalism with legal and illegal immigration while imposing draconian survelliance measures using the excuse that it has to be this way to "keep us safe". It is simply the Hegelian Dialectic "cause, affect, solution". Create the problem, wait for the emotional outcry and then propose a solution that gives "da gubermint" (that is corporate, by the way) more and more control over your privacy and liberties. BTW, you have never even broached the topic that if there was a legitimate terrorist threat, why wasn't the southern and northern borders secured? Hell, if you can fog a mirror and make it over the border, not only can you stay but  "da gubermint" will give you a stipened and a place to live....imagine that?
> ...


 
Notice, if you will.....the righthand side of the windows.......why was FEMA already in New York city the day before?? Hmmmmm?


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## Dale Smith (Feb 4, 2016)

Skylar said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Like I have said MANY times before...I respect your right to not believe that 9/11 was an orchestrated event but yet you and your "cling on" pals can't seem to respond in kind...why is that? I would wager my life on the fact that  USA.INC was behind this event along with the Mossad and Saudi Intel because it served a greater purpose. I could easily riducule you and your pals about your lack of knowledge on how the system really works and how this indentured servitude was put in place with the Chapter 11 bankruptcy of 1933 but you don't have the knowledge that I do therefor it wouldn't be fair to take potshots at you and your little pals. You may get all weepy-eyed when you hear the National Anthem and believe in the good ol US of A and look at the flag as a symbol of freedom but I know differently and I have an understanding of how things really are that you couldn't even wrap your mind around. There is going to be a horrific event that is going to totally change life in an even more horrific way than it is now. We have rampant unemployment and under employment. 71 percent of the people that even have a job make less than 50K a year and 50K is chump change. 51 percent make leass than 30K and 38 percent made less than 20K. The dollar is facing a collapse that will make the crisis of 2008 seem like a mother's kiss and it is all by design. They have been watering down our nationalism with legal and illegal immigration while imposing draconian survelliance measures using the excuse that it has to be this way to "keep us safe". It is simply the Hegelian Dialectic "cause, affect, solution". Create the problem, wait for the emotional outcry and then propose a solution that gives "da gubermint" (that is corporate, by the way) more and more control over your privacy and liberties. BTW, you have never even broached the topic that if there was a legitimate terrorist threat, why wasn't the southern and northern borders secured? Hell, if you can fog a mirror and make it over the border, not only can you stay but  "da gubermint" will give you a stipened and a place to live....imagine that?
> ...


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## Dale Smith (Feb 4, 2016)

Skylar said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Like I have said MANY times before...I respect your right to not believe that 9/11 was an orchestrated event but yet you and your "cling on" pals can't seem to respond in kind...why is that? I would wager my life on the fact that  USA.INC was behind this event along with the Mossad and Saudi Intel because it served a greater purpose. I could easily riducule you and your pals about your lack of knowledge on how the system really works and how this indentured servitude was put in place with the Chapter 11 bankruptcy of 1933 but you don't have the knowledge that I do therefor it wouldn't be fair to take potshots at you and your little pals. You may get all weepy-eyed when you hear the National Anthem and believe in the good ol US of A and look at the flag as a symbol of freedom but I know differently and I have an understanding of how things really are that you couldn't even wrap your mind around. There is going to be a horrific event that is going to totally change life in an even more horrific way than it is now. We have rampant unemployment and under employment. 71 percent of the people that even have a job make less than 50K a year and 50K is chump change. 51 percent make leass than 30K and 38 percent made less than 20K. The dollar is facing a collapse that will make the crisis of 2008 seem like a mother's kiss and it is all by design. They have been watering down our nationalism with legal and illegal immigration while imposing draconian survelliance measures using the excuse that it has to be this way to "keep us safe". It is simply the Hegelian Dialectic "cause, affect, solution". Create the problem, wait for the emotional outcry and then propose a solution that gives "da gubermint" (that is corporate, by the way) more and more control over your privacy and liberties. BTW, you have never even broached the topic that if there was a legitimate terrorist threat, why wasn't the southern and northern borders secured? Hell, if you can fog a mirror and make it over the border, not only can you stay but  "da gubermint" will give you a stipened and a place to live....imagine that?
> ...


 
Thoughts????


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## Gamolon (Feb 4, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Notice, if you will.....the righthand side of the windows.......why was FEMA already in New York city the day before?? Hmmmmm?


Dale,

Why did you offer up a known faked/hoaxed video as proof of your claim of WTC7 being a controlled demolition? What kind of crap are you trying to pull here?


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## Gamolon (Feb 4, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Like I have said MANY times before...I respect your right to not believe that 9/11 was an orchestrated event but yet you and your "cling on" pals can't seem to respond in kind...why is that?


What are you talking about?! I (and others) have posted proof that proves your claims are garbage, yet you ignore what was posted. You clearly run from the evidence we post and act like a child by changing the subject or just ignoring it all together.

Now you've been caught posting a faked/hoaxed video as proof of what you believe and are now ignoring that.

You have no credibility here. Sorry.


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## Gamolon (Feb 4, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Like I have said MANY times before...I respect your right to not believe that 9/11


No you don't. Not even close. If you did, you would engage in debate when opposing evidence is provided against YOUR claim. As has been said here many times, all you do is change the subject or ignore the evidence provided, stick your fingers in your ears and yell "la la la la la". 

All that tells everyone is that your afraid to discuss anything because you know where it will lead your conspiracy claims. Right down the toilet.

How about you show some integrity and discuss the counterpoints against your claims? How about you show some integrity and admit you posted a KNOWN faked/hoaxed video to push your views. You incessantly cry about how the government is corrupt and how they lie at every turn, but here you are doing the same thing.

Pot, meet kettle eh?


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## Gamolon (Feb 4, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> why was FEMA already in New York city the day before?? Hmmmmm?


They weren't...

FEMA's Prior Knowledge of 9-11 Put to Rest


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## Gamolon (Feb 4, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Notice, if you will.....the righthand side of the windows....


What does this have to do with the fake/hoaxed video you posted? It's clearly the WRONG side in your cell phone video. Case closed. Quit trying to worm your way out of it.


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## Skylar (Feb 4, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



I think that you are so emotionally invested in your conspiracy that you can't admit when you gave us manufactured evidence. 

Why did you offer us a clearly fraudulent, manufactured, and fake video of WTC 7?

Thoughts?


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## Dale Smith (Feb 5, 2016)

Gamolon said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Notice, if you will.....the righthand side of the windows....
> ...


  "Worm my way" out of what exactly? There are many videos of Building 7 folding like a cheap chair and right inside it's own footprint. Are you claiming that I purposely posted a video that I knew was misleading? Allow me to assure you that it is not the case at all. There are numerous videos showing the windows 10 floors below that start collapsing  before the intial implosion point. I do not see how anyone can look at any video of Building 7 coming down and not have some serious questions as to how that could even be possible espcially since it was on the outer edge of the alleged "damage radius". I do not understand how anyone can believe that the only footage the Pentagon has of what actually hit the south side can only release 4 frames. Building 6 was totally gutted but yet the exterior walls are still standing. Fireman heard a series of explosions and I am sorry to have to tell you this...but it wasn't due to the burning up of office furniture. High rise buildings have caught on fire since 9/11 and burned for hours and they never collapsed nor did the witnesses here a series of explosions. Believe what you want to believe but I will never back off of my contention that 9/11/01 was a staged event that accomplished a myriad of things for the banking oligarchs that have been running this country for over 100 years...I know exactly how the system has been working against us since the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.


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## Dale Smith (Feb 5, 2016)

Skylar said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Skylar said:
> ...


 

I was emotionally invested when I defended the official story for 12 years but my blinders are off. Do you actually believe that I intentionally posted a video in order to mislead anyone? You are absolutely wrong on that account. The sudden collpase of building 7 pretty much speaks for it's self...with or without doctored flashes that were intentionally posted to try and discredit people that don't buy into the bullshit sold to us by this corporate "gubermint" that tries to pass it's self off as a legitimate governmental body that uses admiralty courts to pass codes, acts and statutes instead of common law.


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## SAYIT (Feb 5, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Gamolon said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



Yet you chose to post one that has proven to be a fraud ... a hoax foisted upon rabid CTs to expose their insipid gullibility and you not only fell for it, you posted it here in a lame attempt to "prove" bldg. 7 was destroyed by controlled demo!

All you proven - and you've done so beyond a shadow of a doubt - is just how stupid one must be to continue to cling to that 9/11 CT silliness.

Rather than admit you've been duped - and that has been the case for the entire 9/11 CT Movement - you've doubled and tripled down on your stupidity!

Smooth move, Dude!   



Dale Smith said:


> Believe what you want to believe but I will never back off of my contention that 9/11/01 was a staged event that accomplished a myriad of things for the banking oligarchs that have been running this country for over 100 years...I know exactly how the system has been working against us since the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.



Yeah ... you can't "back off of" your contentions (no matter how bogus they all prove to be) because you have an agenda that you must serve and it clearly has nothing to do with truth or facts. Classic closed mind.


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## Dale Smith (Feb 5, 2016)

SAYIT said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Gamolon said:
> ...


  My mind was closed when I went 12 years busting on truthers without ever looking at what they were pointing out because I wanted to believe the official story. Time, reading and research has opened my eyes and my mind to the fact that your beloved "gubermint" lies to you with great gusto and impunity. The first WTC attack in 1993 was an FBI sting where they tried to set up an Egyptian patsy but he was smart enough to wear a wire to cover his ass. The OKC bombing in 1995 was an ATF/FBI sting operation that set up McVeigh who worked in black ops and was in the military until at least August of 1993 because there is footage of him in uniform at an army base. His bio was pure fiction fed to us by the CIA controlled lamestream media and he had also been "chipped". An ANFO bomb did not cause the damage to the Murrah building but it was sold to us that it was...the lies about that event are utterly staggering but it gave us a scaled down version of the Patriot Act and Project Echelon where your phone calls could be legally collected and monitored...remember this was right around the time that those bulky cell phones came out and they had to have a way to legally monitor your conversations. The patriot Act was written before 9/11 ever happened and the apparatus to monitor us on social media, Google searches and e-mails was already put in place before 9/11...they just needed an excuse. Troops were already strtategically placed around Afghanistan before 9/11. The decision to take out Saddam Hussein's puppet regime was decided in 2000 because he wanted to get off the petro dollar and that's a big "no no" and not in the best interest of USA.INC. There is so much that you do not know or understand about this corporate "gubermint" that you defend like a little kid whose dog just killed 12 of the neighbor's chickens and has the blood of the fresh kill dripping off his nose...you will defend that dog no matter what because you have such an emotional attachment to it. Knock yourself out.....but at the end of the day I will be proven absolutely 100 percent.


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## Skylar (Feb 6, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



I actually believe that you didn't care if it was legitimate. As when I gave you all the warning signs, that its resolution was far too good for any cell phone camera of the era, that it had no chain of custody coming out of nowhere, that it appeared 12 years after the fact, that it recorded audio that no other video recorded...

_.....you ignored it all. _

You refused to even consider it was anything but legitimate because you *wanted* it to be legitimate. As it supported what you have emotionally invented in. So you neither fact checked it, questioned it, nor paid any attention to the enormous warning signs of its illegitimacy.

And that's a pattern you've followed almost exclusively in your swallowing of the Truther conspiracy.

Remember your imagination 'missile batteries' around the Pentagon?

Remember your 'Dr that worked at the CIA for 30 years'?

Remember the Airfones that 'didn't work'?

Remember your 'controlled demolition' of the towers that was exactly opposite of controlled demolition?

I do. You making the same absurd mistake, over and over. Refusing to fact check claims, refusing to question their obvious flaws, refusing to even consider the idea that the claims are simple nonsense. Why? Because 'nothing will convince you'.

You're committed to your conspiracy, no matter what. That's not an open mind.


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## Dale Smith (Feb 6, 2016)

Skylar said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Skylar said:
> ...


  I was once committed to pushing the lie of 9/11 but not anymore. My mind is a lot more open than yours. You believe the official story? Fine with me....I don't and since I know waaaaaay more about our real history than you do? There is nothing you could say that could influence me because I simply know more than you.


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## Skylar (Feb 6, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



You keep offering us your 'conversion' story like it is evidence of something. Its only evidence that you approach the 911 truther conspiracy with a religious like fervor that robs you of any semblance of authenticity, credibility or integrity.

As you absolutely *refuse* to fact check your claims. You clearly don't care if your claims are actually true. As when you're caught in a flagrant lie, you'll merely switch to another topic. That's the tactic of snake oil salesmen and charlatans. Not 'seekers of truth'. 

And that's also why you keep presenting provably false narratives.


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## Dale Smith (Feb 7, 2016)

Skylar said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Skylar said:
> ...


 
I am not looking to convert anyone to my way of thinking so let's be clear about that right up front. What I am doing is lending support to those that know and believe that 9/11 was a well orchestarted event that has led us to this fascist police state that we now find ourselves in. I appreciate the give and take of this thread and while you are not persuaded to look at things a different way by anything I have said, I can say the same thing about what you and your ilk have posted that attempts to contradict my contentions. I do not dwell simply on the events of 9/11 because 9/11 is simply a microcosm of what really ails this country and how it has been used to bring other countries under control using a worthless fiat currency backed by nothing since the Bretton Woods agreement after WWII while enslaving the de-facto  "USA.INC citizens" into complying with their acts, statutes and codes using Admiralty law instead of Common Law. I am more than satisfied that it was a false flag event and you will have to come to your own understanding of it and if you have already made up your mind? Nothing I can say is going to make you see things my way and I am totally cool with that. It is a rabbit hole that steers off in many directions and I really know just enough to be dangerous when it comes to what we are really facing and the end game. I do not know enough about Admiralty Law and Black's Law dictionary to even defend myself against a traffic ticket yet....but it is a continual learning experience that I intend to keep focusing on. The American people have been used and abused...that much is blatently obvious due the thousands of hours of listening to documentaries, lectures and books I have downloaded by people that have dedicated their lives on what the real truth is and did the heavy lifting. You will have to find your own way as I can not help you. Best of luck....


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## Gamolon (Feb 8, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Do you actually believe that I intentionally posted a video in order to mislead anyone?


Yes I do. And you know why? Because you posted a faked/hoaxed video to you KNEW was faked hoaxed. Why did you choose that video Dale when there are so many others that show a better view?

Keep trying to worm your way out of what you did.

Nice try.


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## Dale Smith (Feb 8, 2016)

Gamolon said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Do you actually believe that I intentionally posted a video in order to mislead anyone?
> ...


Well, you are wrong on that one and apparently I wasn't the only one that was ensnared by an anonymous video no doubt posted by a disinformation shill. The other videos show the floors on the right to start collapsing ten floors below when the building starts to fall so you might want to concentrate on that and attempt to explain that away. Or perhaps you can explain the squibs that are blowing out of the windows well below the floors that were initially hit. BTW, I am no official representative of the truther movement and I am not really all that interested in trying to change hearts and minds about it because I believe that the republic is too far gone. I was enjoying the give and take but it seems that you want to take it to a personal level now...why is that? You believe your beloved and precious corporate "gubermint"...I don't believe a fucking thing that they have to say on 99 percent of what comes out of D.C...you do and that is your prerogative as it is mine to not believe them. So what exactly is the damage? You can either address me or what I say in a gentlemanly manner or I will simply put you on "Ignore"...the choice is yours.


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## Gamolon (Feb 8, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> I was enjoying the give and take but it seems that you want to take it to a personal level now...why is that?


Let's make one thing abundantly clear. There is no "personal level". You posted garbage and got called on it. You KNEW it was a faked /hoaxed video and still chose to post it as evidence for whatever your claim was. 

As far as your "give and take" quote above, there was no "give and take" between you and I. You posted your claims and I posted evidence to refute it. Instead of discussing what I posted, you changed the subject and completely ignored MY side of things. Other s have posted evidence to refute you your claims and you ignored them also.

As far as I'm concerned, you can put me on ignore because as it stands now, your doing it anyways. Makes no difference to me. You'll continue to post your claims and I'll continue to post my refutations to them. 

Any interaction with you thus far has proven to be one sided. You refuse to discuss anything that others bring up.


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## SAYIT (Feb 8, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> My mind was closed when I went 12 years busting on truthers without ever looking at what they were pointing out because I wanted to believe the official story. Time, reading and research has opened my eyes and my mind to the fact that your beloved "gubermint" lies to you with great gusto and impunity...



Do you understand the term "garbage in/garbage out?" The time you have spent reading and researching in an obvious attempt to validate your preconceived beliefs was wasted on phony facts, half-truths, speculation, suppositions, fabrications, and far-fetched (if not impossible) conspiracy theories. That garbage been consistently refuted here by those who are smarter and far better informed than you.

For some reason the cynicism you apply so lavishly to anything "gubermint" - a healthy habit, BTW - you fail to apply at all to your 9/11 CT "research."  

That fact that some "gubermint" officials sometimes lie (and their lies are so often exposed) does not mean that all lie or that 9/11 was a massive "gubermint" black op and cover-up.

To believe that is just childish. Grow up.



Dale Smith said:


> I am not looking to convert anyone to my way of thinking so let's be clear about that right up front. What I am doing is lending support to those that know and believe that 9/11 was a well orchestarted event that has led us to this fascist police state that we now find ourselves in...



"Facist police state?"

Dude, you clearly have no idea what the term means (or you don't live in America).

You have spent weeks here posting outrageous lies - lies you've attempted to support with half-truths, whole lies and bogus videos - about US government personnel.

Is your domicile surrounded by federal or state agents? Have "they" tapped your phones? Has anyone knocked on your door to tell you to cut the crap?

You really need to cut back on the drugs ... your adult perspective mech is broken and your paranoia has run amok.


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## Dale Smith (Feb 8, 2016)

SAYIT said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > My mind was closed when I went 12 years busting on truthers without ever looking at what they were pointing out because I wanted to believe the official story. Time, reading and research has opened my eyes and my mind to the fact that your beloved "gubermint" lies to you with great gusto and impunity...
> ...





SAYIT said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > My mind was closed when I went 12 years busting on truthers without ever looking at what they were pointing out because I wanted to believe the official story. Time, reading and research has opened my eyes and my mind to the fact that your beloved "gubermint" lies to you with great gusto and impunity...
> ...



"Do you understand the term "garbage in/garbage out?" The time you have spent reading and researching in an obvious attempt to validate your preconceived beliefs was wasted on phony facts, half-truths, speculation, suppositions, fabrications, and far-fetched (if not impossible) conspiracy theories. That garbage been consistently refuted here by those who are smarter and far better informed than you"

I beg to differ because for 12 years I was just like you guys. I refuted any attempt to paint this corporate entity trying to pass it's self off as a legitimate governmental body in a bad light. Nothing that I have stated and especially as to how the Twin Towers came down or how Building 7 fell has dispelled my contentions that all three were controlled demolitions...nothing at all. We simply agree to disagree....

"For some reason the cynicism you apply so lavishly to anything "gubermint" - a healthy habit, BTW - you fail to apply at all to your 9/11 CT "research."
Not really, I didn't spend a lot of time on every single nuance of that day once I figured out that I had been played for a chump. I started digging deeper and went further and went back a couple of hundred years starting with significant dates in our history. 9/11/01 was but one of many false flag events used to make people afraid and turn to their beloved "gubermint" for answers. What I find hilarious is the fact that after this security apparatus got "butt-fucked" on a world wide stage with alleged "incompetence" and a victim of unfortunate circumstances and coincidences where 19 box cutter knife welding "terrorists" single-handedly  defeated the NSA, CIA, NORAD and the Pentagon but yet were so able to get their shit together in such a short amount of time that this alleged "terrorist group" was unable to pull off another attack while the iron was hot...does that not set off your bullshit detector? They didn't even secure the borders nor was there any attempt to do so.....hello???

"That fact that some "gubermint" officials sometimes lie (and their lies are so often exposed) does not mean that all lie or that 9/11 was a massive "gubermint" black op and cover-up"

Now that is total bullshit right there. The Gulf of Tonkin incident never happened that put USA.INC right in the middle of the Vietnam War but it took over 40 years for that to come out. PNAC even laid out the strategy for a new American century i 1999 where they laid out the plans for taking over control of certain parts of the Middle East and short of a new "Pearl Harbor" event? It would take time....guess what, they got it with 9/11....coinkydink? I think not.....

"To believe that is just childish. Grow up"

 I am 52 ...I am as "grown" as I am going to get.

"You have spent weeks here posting outrageous lies - lies you've attempted to support with half-truths, whole lies and bogus videos - about US government personnel."

No, I haven't "lied" about a single thing and the rabbit hole goes deeper than you could even fathom and it is always about wealth and power.

"Is your domicile surrounded by federal or state agents? Have "they" tapped your phones? Has anyone knocked on your door to tell you to cut the crap?" 

I am small time, but I have been censored on the internet for exposing the foreign owned central bank that is the Federal Reserve banksters that hijacked our monetary system in 1913. I have had over 2,000 posts deleted on Yahoo and other websites for pointing out the fraud that was put upon us. The IMF (International Monetary Fund) Bank For International  Settlements and the Global bank are all controlled by the same banking oligarchs that control the Federal Reserve Bank and how this fiat currency works and how it is a perpetual debt machine designed to keep us in debt. I have had posts deleted for pointing out that we are collateral on the debt due to the Chapter 11 bankruptcy of USA.INC in March of 1933 and how we are actually under Admiralty Law and the UCC (universal commercial code) instead of Common Law and how America is actually a corporation due to the Act of 1871. Birth certificates are printed on bond paper and using actuarial tables? they calculate the amount of commerce, taxes and other "gubermint fees" that you will pay over your lifetime and they set a value on that bond (which matures when you turn 18) and they made themselves the "trustee" of that bond because we are all "surety" on the debt and "da gubermint" borrows against it which is why they can run a deficit every year because it is our labor that moves this fiat currency backed by nothing tangible but the alleged "good credit" of it's citizens. War is great for the banking oligarchs because death means that they get to collect the rest of the monetary value of that bond that is your birth certificate. We are "monetized" at birth and an instrument of commerce to be used to borrowed against and traded based on what we will produce over our lifetime. We are nothing but chattel (any article of tangible property other than land, buildings, and other things annexed to land)....we do not own our homes or our land because it is collateral on the debt. We lost Allodial rights to our property when USA.INC filed Chapter 11 in 1933 AND under the penalty of huge fines and imprisonment, everyone had to turn in their gold for a worthless fiat Federal Reserve note. I could write for another hour on how badly the people of this country have been bent over but it would be a waste of time because people have been conditioned and dumbed down chemically and intellectually.

"You really need to cut back on the drugs ... your adult perspective mech is broken and your paranoia has run amok"

Nope, I have a really good grasp on how things are and I will be honest...I was a lot happier when I didn't know the things that I do...unfortunately you can't "unlearn" once you take the red pill.


----------



## Dale Smith (Feb 8, 2016)

Gamolon said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > I was enjoying the give and take but it seems that you want to take it to a personal level now...why is that?
> ...



You didn't post diddly squat that gave me pause for thought. You claimed that one of the buildings came down in 16 seconds instead of the 12 seconds that the NIST even ADMITTED was their calculation and they are on YOUR side.....and you never addressed it...you totally blew it off. You totally ignored building 6 that was even closer to WTC1 and 2 than WTC7 was that was totally gutted and only the exterior walls were left standing..how and the fuck can you explain that? WTC6 had it own explosion and that much should be blatantly obvious if you look at the damage ..but yet building7.on the outer range of the alleged "damage radius" falls down right inside it's own footprint thirty minutes after the BBC reports that it has already collapsed but is still standing and no one has the slightest clue that it is going to collapse because the fires are oxygen starved and restricted to the lower 20s floors...seriously? You expect me to believe that shit and just take "da gubermint's" word that we should just move along and heed their call "nothing to see here" bullshit? Seriously????


----------



## Skylar (Feb 8, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



Oh, you're emotionally invested in your batshit truther conspiracy. A rational person would fact check their claims. You don't. You just spew whatever you're told to think without a single question. And when caught in blatant, laughable, inept lies......you just scurry to another topic.

That's not rational. You've emotionally invested *so* much into your truther 'conversion' that even when your story falls apart, you continue to desperately cling to it.

Your 'missle batteries' around the pentagon? Horseshit. But you continue to cling to the lie anyway. Why? Emotional investment in your conspiracy.

911 a 'cover up' for 2.3 trillion 'missing' dollars? More horseshit. Nothing was covered up. Nor was the 2.3 trillion actually missing. But you continue to cling to your lie. Why? Emotional investment in your conspiracy.

The 'controlled demolition' of the towers? The towers came down exactly *opposite* of controlled demolition, with your theory requiring 10s of thousands of charges. Yet there were none. Nor any girder cut by them. But you continue to cling to your lie. Why? Emotional investment in your conspiracy.

The Airfones on Flight 77 not working? Airfone confirms they did work and calls were made from them. But you continue to cling to your conspiracy lie. Why? Emotional investment in your conspiracy.

The Pentagon being 'some of the most secure airspace in the world'? Its 3000 feet from the runway at Reagan International, with planes flying over it daily on 911. But you continue to cling to your conspiracy lie. Why? Emotional investment in your conspiracy.

Your 'WTC 7 explosions' video that had no chain of custody, had resolution way too high for a cell phone video, recorded audio no other video recorded, and came out of nowhere 12 years after the event. All HUGE red flags. Yet you offered it as genuine, never questioning or fact checking any of it. Why? Emotional investment in your conspiracy.

Again and again and again........you don't think. You don't reason. You don't question. You just gobble down whatever conspiracy batshit you're told to think. And then repeat it with the mindless, glassy eyed reverence of an opium addled monk. That's no evolution, Dale. That's the hopeless abdication of reason for a load of conspiracy horseshit that even *you* can't make work.


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## Skylar (Feb 8, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Not really, I didn't spend a lot of time on every single nuance of that day once I figured out that I had been played for a chump. I started digging deeper and went further and went back a couple of hundred years starting with significant dates in our history.



'Every single nuance'? How many lies have we caught you in, Dale? You've painted yourself into a corner. If you've actually checked the claims you've made.....then you knew they were horseshit when you offered them to us. If you didn't......then obviously didn't 'check every single nuance'. But merely chewed predigested conspiracy cud without thought or question. Repeating what he was told to think.

They're mutually exclusive positions. Liar. Or lemming.

Pick one.


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## Papageorgio (Feb 8, 2016)

911 was a alien abduction gone very wrong. We were supposed to get Elvis back, but we got took.


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## Gamolon (Feb 9, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> You didn't post diddly squat that gave me pause for thought.


I posted information that directly refutes many of your claims. That's a fact. Whether you paused to think about it is another matter. 



Dale Smith said:


> You claimed that one of the buildings came down in 16 seconds instead of the 12 seconds that the NIST even ADMITTED was their calculation and they are on YOUR side.....and you never addressed it...you totally blew it off.


I never addressed it? Just another lie in your long list of lies. Try post #131 in this very thread. First of all I never said the buildings came down in 16 seconds. I linked and quotes a page from the NIST that addressed the time frame of the collapses and you obviously ignored it. The 11 and 9 second time frame was for the FIRST EXTERIOR FACADE PANELS to impact the ground, NOT the totsal collapse of the towers. Furthermore, remnants of both cores stood for 15 to 24 seconds AFTER the collapse initiation before they then collapsed. So where are you getting your 12 seconds collapse time that was calculated by NIST? Do you even have a link or are you just spewing more garbage?



Dale Smith said:


> You totally ignored building 6 that was even closer to WTC1 and 2 than WTC7 was that was totally gutted and only the exterior walls were left standing..how and the fuck can you explain that?


I ignored it? Yet another lie. I addressed this in post #212 when I asked you if you saw debris from the towers in the center of the building. You never responded.



Dale Smith said:


> WTC6 had it own explosion and that much should be blatantly obvious if you look at the damage ..


In post #212, I asked you to provide a link that says there was an explosion in building 6. You ignored that and went on your merry way.



Dale Smith said:


> but yet building7.on the outer range of the alleged "damage radius" falls down right inside it's own footprint thirty minutes after the BBC reports that it has already collapsed but is still standing and no one has the slightest clue that it is going to collapse because the fires are oxygen starved and restricted to the lower 20s floors...seriously?


You have been told that WTC7 did NOT collapse into it's own footprint. Parts of that building struck another building across the street. Are you ready to admit that you were wrong about WTC1 and WTC2 falling into their own 208' x 208' footprint or are you not man enough?



Dale Smith said:


> You expect me to believe that shit and just take "da gubermint's" word that we should just move along and heed their call "nothing to see here" bullshit? Seriously????


No, I expect you to look at the facts and debate what you are claiming in a rational manner. Up 'til now, you haven't done that. All you've down is spew claim after claim and never discuss any refutations to those claims.

Why not Dale?

Want to start with the collapse times that you've managed to screw up at every turn?


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## Dale Smith (Feb 9, 2016)

What it all boils down to is that I do not care what you believe or do not believe. you see, for those that believe in their beloved "corporate gubermint"? There is never going to be enough proof that will ever persuade them that this corporate entity does not give a flying fuck about them. They can now legally use propaganda on us (as the Smith-Mundt Act of 1948, which explicitly forbade information and psychological operations aimed at influencing public opinion) was repealed and stuck in the NDA Act....oh, do you know why it is an Act instead of a Law? Because corporations can't make laws, they create, acts, statutes and codes. These mass shootings (Like Sandy Hook and Aurora) and terror drills Boston bombing) of the last 4 years have all been staged events used to sway people to disarm themselves while going deeper into this police state   We went from a republic to an alleged democracy but what we have is totalitarianism where instead of ruling from the bottom up, we have are given acts statutes and codes to obey given to us from on high. There has not been a war that has not been orchestrated by this cabal of theives. They were complicit in the murder of both Kennedys, MLK and Malcolm X in the 60's because they challenged the status quo. They were complicit in the first WTC bombing, they fried the people in Waco and they were behind the OKC Murrah building bombing and of course 9/11 because it is all about keeping the little sheeple afraid and in need of "da gubermint" to protect them and all they ask for is more infringemnt on liberties and freedoms and they whittle away at them a little at a time.

I am done arguing with you because you and your little pals are nothing but asswipes that are not really interested in exchanging ideas but rather resort to insults. Keep believing in the flag and the political hacks that reside in the corporation headquarters in D.C but I guarantee you that there is yet another false flag event on the horizon that will make 9/11 seem tame by comparison...so have the last word because I am done with ya.


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## Skylar (Feb 9, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> What it all boils down to is that I do not care what you believe or do not believe. you see, for those that believe in their beloved "corporate gubermint"?



More accurately, its that your story is just dumb. Your account of 911 is ludicrously complicated, stupidly elaborate, ridiculously convoluted and contradicted by overwhelming evidence.

Its simply an stupidly awful explanation.

I mean, a 'cover up' that doesn't actually cover anything up? Controlled demolition that doesn't actually cut any girder? The FDNY destroying WTC 7?  The Pentagon being 'secure airspace'....3000 feet from Reagan International?

That's just stupid.

And you know its a stupidly awful explanation. Which is why when one of your claims is obliterated by overwhelming evidence......you just abandon it and flee to another. This thread is a wasteland of useless horseshit that you offered up in explanation and then absolutely abandoned. And now refuse to discuss.

If your argument had merit, you wouldn't have to be running from your own claims this much. And you certainly wouldn't have to be offering up fake videos to support your narrative.

THINK.


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## Papageorgio (Feb 9, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> What it all boils down to is that I do not care what you believe or do not believe. you see, for those that believe in their beloved "corporate gubermint"? There is never going to be enough proof that will ever persuade them that this corporate entity does not give a flying fuck about them. They can now legally use propaganda on us (as the Smith-Mundt Act of 1948, which explicitly forbade information and psychological operations aimed at influencing public opinion) was repealed and stuck in the NDA Act....oh, do you know why it is an Act instead of a Law? Because corporations can't make laws, they create, acts, statutes and codes. These mass shootings (Like Sandy Hook and Aurora) and terror drills Boston bombing) of the last 4 years have all been staged events used to sway people to disarm themselves while going deeper into this police state   We went from a republic to an alleged democracy but what we have is totalitarianism where instead of ruling from the bottom up, we have are given acts statutes and codes to obey given to us from on high. There has not been a war that has not been orchestrated by this cabal of theives. They were complicit in the murder of both Kennedys, MLK and Malcolm X in the 60's because they challenged the status quo. They were complicit in the first WTC bombing, they fried the people in Waco and they were behind the OKC Murrah building bombing and of course 9/11 because it is all about keeping the little sheeple afraid and in need of "da gubermint" to protect them and all they ask for is more infringemnt on liberties and freedoms and they whittle away at them a little at a time.
> 
> I am done arguing with you because you and your little pals are nothing but asswipes that are not really interested in exchanging ideas but rather resort to insults. Keep believing in the flag and the political hacks that reside in the corporation headquarters in D.C but I guarantee you that there is yet another false flag event on the horizon that will make 9/11 seem tame by comparison...so have the last word because I am done with ya.



Gamolon asked specifics from you and that isn't arguing that is asking you to back up specific claims you made. Now you move to this game.

You have nothing and can't back it up.


----------



## Skylar (Feb 9, 2016)

Papageorgio said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > What it all boils down to is that I do not care what you believe or do not believe. you see, for those that believe in their beloved "corporate gubermint"? There is never going to be enough proof that will ever persuade them that this corporate entity does not give a flying fuck about them. They can now legally use propaganda on us (as the Smith-Mundt Act of 1948, which explicitly forbade information and psychological operations aimed at influencing public opinion) was repealed and stuck in the NDA Act....oh, do you know why it is an Act instead of a Law? Because corporations can't make laws, they create, acts, statutes and codes. These mass shootings (Like Sandy Hook and Aurora) and terror drills Boston bombing) of the last 4 years have all been staged events used to sway people to disarm themselves while going deeper into this police state   We went from a republic to an alleged democracy but what we have is totalitarianism where instead of ruling from the bottom up, we have are given acts statutes and codes to obey given to us from on high. There has not been a war that has not been orchestrated by this cabal of theives. They were complicit in the murder of both Kennedys, MLK and Malcolm X in the 60's because they challenged the status quo. They were complicit in the first WTC bombing, they fried the people in Waco and they were behind the OKC Murrah building bombing and of course 9/11 because it is all about keeping the little sheeple afraid and in need of "da gubermint" to protect them and all they ask for is more infringemnt on liberties and freedoms and they whittle away at them a little at a time.
> ...



Of course not. Every time Dale is refuted on any specific point, he abandons it and switches to another topic.


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## Dale Smith (Feb 9, 2016)

Papageorgio said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > What it all boils down to is that I do not care what you believe or do not believe. you see, for those that believe in their beloved "corporate gubermint"? There is never going to be enough proof that will ever persuade them that this corporate entity does not give a flying fuck about them. They can now legally use propaganda on us (as the Smith-Mundt Act of 1948, which explicitly forbade information and psychological operations aimed at influencing public opinion) was repealed and stuck in the NDA Act....oh, do you know why it is an Act instead of a Law? Because corporations can't make laws, they create, acts, statutes and codes. These mass shootings (Like Sandy Hook and Aurora) and terror drills Boston bombing) of the last 4 years have all been staged events used to sway people to disarm themselves while going deeper into this police state   We went from a republic to an alleged democracy but what we have is totalitarianism where instead of ruling from the bottom up, we have are given acts statutes and codes to obey given to us from on high. There has not been a war that has not been orchestrated by this cabal of theives. They were complicit in the murder of both Kennedys, MLK and Malcolm X in the 60's because they challenged the status quo. They were complicit in the first WTC bombing, they fried the people in Waco and they were behind the OKC Murrah building bombing and of course 9/11 because it is all about keeping the little sheeple afraid and in need of "da gubermint" to protect them and all they ask for is more infringemnt on liberties and freedoms and they whittle away at them a little at a time.
> ...


 

Yep, you are right.....our gubermint never lies...what was I thinking?


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## Skylar (Feb 9, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



That's a total non-sequitur. 

And the government lying doesn't magically make whatever hapless conspiracy batshit you make up true.


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## Dale Smith (Feb 9, 2016)

Skylar said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > What it all boils down to is that I do not care what you believe or do not believe. you see, for those that believe in their beloved "corporate gubermint"?
> ...


 
Not running from anything and I do not care if you believe the way I do or not...to each their own. You seem to have a problem with those that don't fall in line with "da gubermint" narrative and that is pretty fucking scary given what they have done to you and yours. Like I said earlier, I am not looking for converts...I am simply stating what I see as someone that doesn't suffer from cognitive dissonance that threw off the brainwashing of this corporate entity. You believe differently and I respect that because afterall, I thought just like you did so I can not claim high ground or moral superiority...so like gamlon, please, have the last word because I am done with you as well.


----------



## Skylar (Feb 9, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



Its odd, your sudden disinterest in the very topics you raise occurs moments after your claims are refuted by better evidence, better reasoning, and a far simpler explanation.

If your claims had merit, this thread wouldn't be a wasteland of nonsense you've offered and then abandoned. 



> You seem to have a problem with those that don't fall in line with "da gubermint" narrative and that is pretty fucking scary given what they have done to you and yours.



More accurately, *your explanation is awful.* Its stupidly complicated, backed by jack shit, and contradicted by overwhelming evidence.

Worse, when you are factually refuted on specific claims, you run. Why would a rational person attribute much credibility to the nonsense you're offering us? Even you don't take you seriously.


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## Gamolon (Feb 9, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> What it all boils down to is that I do not care what you believe or do not believe. you see, for those that believe in their beloved "corporate gubermint"?


What I've been posting has nothing to do with what I "believe" and everything to do with proving certain claims of yours to be wrong. I have cited links for my information that PROVES your claims wrong, but you refuse to discuss. The fact that you say that I haven't addressed any of your claims or posted evidence is asinine. I even provided the post #'s that shows you are lying.



Dale Smith said:


> There is never going to be enough proof that will ever persuade them that this corporate entity does not give a flying fuck about them.


And why do you get to imply that the few things we are discussing here apply to the "corporate entity" as a whole? How do you know what I think about the government in regards to EVERYTHING that they do? You basing your assumptions about me based on a few of the 9/11 topics here is just idiotic.



Dale Smith said:


> They can now legally use propaganda on us (as the Smith-Mundt Act of 1948, which explicitly forbade information and psychological operations aimed at influencing public opinion) was repealed and stuck in the NDA Act....oh, do you know why it is an Act instead of a Law? Because corporations can't make laws, they create, acts, statutes and codes. These mass shootings (Like Sandy Hook and Aurora) and terror drills Boston bombing) of the last 4 years have all been staged events used to sway people to disarm themselves while going deeper into this police state   We went from a republic to an alleged democracy but what we have is totalitarianism where instead of ruling from the bottom up, we have are given acts statutes and codes to obey given to us from on high. There has not been a war that has not been orchestrated by this cabal of theives. They were complicit in the murder of both Kennedys, MLK and Malcolm X in the 60's because they challenged the status quo. They were complicit in the first WTC bombing, they fried the people in Waco and they were behind the OKC Murrah building bombing and of course 9/11 because it is all about keeping the little sheeple afraid and in need of "da gubermint" to protect them and all they ask for is more infringemnt on liberties and freedoms and they whittle away at them a little at a time.


And what the hell does you rant above have to do with anything I have brought up regarding the towers falling into their own footprints, controlled demolition, and the pentagon impact? Why do you insist on extrapolating what I say about these subjects to the govenrment as a whole? You've never discussed any of that with me have you? Is this how you debate and discuss topics?



Dale Smith said:


> I am done arguing with you because you and your little pals are nothing but asswipes that are not really interested in exchanging ideas but rather resort to insults.


You haven't done any "arguing" Dale. You haven't even debated me. If the interaction you've provided is your idea of debate or discussion, I have to say it's been a pathetic attempt from your end.



Dale Smith said:


> Keep believing in the flag and the political hacks that reside in the corporation headquarters in D.C but I guarantee you that there is yet another false flag event on the horizon that will make 9/11 seem tame by comparison...so have the last word because I am done with ya.


Let's sum this up. You seem to think that my views on the government as a whole can be derived from the few 9/11 topics we discussed (I use the term "discussed" loosely) here. That in itself is shortsighted and ridiculous. Your incessant whining about insults and lack of discussion in this thread on my part is just plain idiocy.

You have been provided counterpoints to your claims and everyone here can see what you do. You ignore the counterpoints and switch to other topics when you are stumped or when something presented to you doesn't support your beliefs. So be it.

Take your ball and go home like a child. It makes no difference to me.


----------



## Gamolon (Feb 9, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Not running from anything and I do not care if you believe the way I do or not...to each their own.


Yes, you are running.



Dale Smith said:


> You seem to have a problem with those that don't fall in line with "da gubermint" narrative and that is pretty fucking scary given what they have done to you and yours.


Again, you seem to have a major problem. That being that FACTS and EVIDENCE posted in this thread is enough for you to make a short sighted and idiotic assumption that we follow and agree with everything the government does.

That my friend is a pathetic and delusional assumption. If that's the way you truly live your life and how you interact with other people, I feel sorry for you.


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## Gamolon (Feb 9, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Yep, you are right.....our gubermint never lies...what was I thinking?


WTF?! Can you please quote where he said that the government never lies? Have I said that anywhere in this thread or anywhere else? Talk about delusional...


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## Papageorgio (Feb 9, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



Again, you avoid the questions. All you do is deflect. All you want to do is argue you want to deal in facts.


----------



## Dale Smith (Feb 9, 2016)

Papageorgio said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Haven't been "arguing" at all...just stating what I believe but of course you set me straight and "good on ya" for that because of you? I now know that this corporate "gubermint" is above board and never lies...and even should be less than forthcoming? It's for our own good....I "get it".   (snicker)


----------



## Papageorgio (Feb 9, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



You were asked specific questions and avoided them. I never stated government doesn't lie. Just answer the questions and quit diverting.


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## Dale Smith (Feb 9, 2016)

Papageorgio said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


 
I answered every question to the best of my ability...what is this? An inquisition? Either you believe what "da gubermint" claims or you don't....I don't and that pretty much sums up my attitude. I don't "owe" anyone anything......everyone has an opinion. I do no longer buy that two 110 story buildings can collapse in freallfall fashion in the exact same way when they were built to withstand that type of collision. I don't buy the fact that Building 7 fell down inside it's on footprint and it wasn't even hit by a plane and it was on the outer edge of the alleged "damage radius"......if you do? Bully to you. I don't buy the fact that we were told that a plane was hijacked by a terroists (that couldn't even handle the controls of a Cessna plane) could operate a passenger jet that is nothing more than a cargo airship...it's not a like a jet fighter than can make all these incredible manuevers where he could make a 270 degree turn and hit the Pentagon mere inches off of the ground without marring the landscape....I don't buy it...you do and I respect that...because I once believed it myself.....like for 12 years. You believe "da gubermint"...I don't and it's really just that simple.


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## SAYIT (Feb 9, 2016)

Skylar said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > What it all boils down to is that I do not care what you believe or do not believe. you see, for those that believe in their beloved "corporate gubermint"?
> ...



The same can be said of any of the other dozens of 9/11 CT threads here. They were started by self-styled Internet "experts" who, regrettably, all spewed the same old BS so thoroughly debunked.

Poor Smith must know by now that he has been duped by the Movement but he just can't admit it and let go. He is obsessed with his view our "gubermint."

Just once I'd like to see one of these 'tards post something new and credible but alas, all that's left of the long-dead 9/11 CT Movement are the 'tards.


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## Dale Smith (Feb 9, 2016)

SAYIT said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...


 
You are yet another flaming douchebag that I can add to the "Iggy" list...you have company....you guys can commiserate about how you think you know more than anyone else. (snicker)


----------



## SAYIT (Feb 9, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



Thing is, no one here has argued for "the gubermint."
Your attempts to demean and displace the NIST conclusions with your Spiders-from-Mars and Silent Ninja Demo Riggers theories have failed monumentally. Your claim to 12,000 hours of "research" is belied by your abject lack of knowledge and by your desperate clinging to the easily debunked half-truths and outright lies you have posted.

Frankly, your decision to bail out on those who have had the temerity to post FACTS and TRUTH in response to your 9/11 BS and LIES is completely understandable. It seems to be what you do best but don't feel bad ... many 9/11 CT 'tards have slithered away with their ignorant and mendacious tails between their legs.

I'll add your name to that list.


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## Papageorgio (Feb 9, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



So you have nothing. Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Feb 10, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > Skylar said:
> ...



Dale,tell me WHY do go back and forth with these paid shills that have infiltrated this forum such as candyass,dawgshit,skylar,jillian,sayit and the biggest troll of them all rightwinger?

what do you hope to accomplish by feeding these trolls? their handlers LOVE it when you take their bait and reply to them,thats why their handlers send them here to get you to take their bait they feed you,WHY do you do it?

the fact that agent rightwinger is still trolling in the sports section saying the rams arent playing in LA this year should be proof enough to you that these other paid trolls are no different than he is,that just like him, they have to   LIE when they cant counter facts and know they are wrong and defeated.

pooper the last poster that replied,he is probably the only one that believes the governments version who is not a paid shill,but this guy is the biggest troll as well though,he used to go around stalking me on my rams thread for two years replying to me when he KNEW I had him on ignore.

he only recently stopped not too long ago and put me on ignore same as i did with him years ago  out of frustration of me not taking his bait anymore.


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## Dale Smith (Feb 10, 2016)

9/11 inside job said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...



You tried to tell me but I am a "newbie" and I was hoping to find some decent conversation and exchange of ideas here. They started getting more hateful and nasty with each and every post till I finally had enough. Thanks for chiming in...good on ya.


----------



## candycorn (Feb 10, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > Dale Smith said:
> ...



Gee, I asked you simply to detail "what happened" that day and put your theories up against the known facts.  You, of course, declined.  If your theories (and that is all any of us have) cannot withstand scrutiny...well, you're either carrying around theories that are by fact incorrect or you have a different agenda.  

Since you're unwilling to examine said theorems; it's pretty obvious by that and by your behavior that you have a different agenda that involves self-aggrandizement which is basically at what you find in all strains of truthers and other scumbags.


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 10, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


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dont know why you didnt believe me since myself and others have had experience with these trolls.

pretty obvious that they do  the same thing on 9/11 that USMB's resident troll disinfo agent rightwinger does on the rams,same as how he denys reality that they will be in LA this year and LIES in defeat exposing to the whole world what a troll he is,all those people i mentioned as you found out do the same thing with 9/11.


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## Skylar (Feb 10, 2016)

candycorn said:


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The Truther conspiracy is just a modern iteration of the Emperor's New Clothes. Its irrefutable, rock solid and utterly compelling......as long as you don't question the conspiracy, think too hard about it, or fact check it. If you do......well, its just the nakedness of ignorance.


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## Skylar (Feb 10, 2016)

9/11 inside job said:


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With 'paid shill' being anyone who won't drink the Truther Koolaid. Or questions the conspiracy in anyway.

Sorry, 911......but your explanation is just awful. That's why people reject it.


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## Gamolon (Feb 11, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> I was hoping to find some decent conversation and exchange of ideas here.


What a joke! All you did was put forth your claims and never wanted to discuss any of the counterpoints people provided. You were NEVER here for "conversation" or "exchanging ideas". Go back and read your posts. You were ALWAYS the one saying that "nobody could change your mind". 

For you to say you were hoping for conversation and exchanging of ideas is just a big fat lie.


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 11, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


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as you found out dale they are incapable of opening up their mouths without shitting all over the floor.


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## Dale Smith (Feb 11, 2016)

9/11 inside job said:


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What was even sadder was that they couldn't discusss this without being assholes. I was cordial and polite but I finally had enough. You could drive a brigade of tanks through the holes of the official story and I am embarrassed that I bought the official narrative for as long as I did...I doubt that I will ever be able to wash the stench off. Thanks for chiming in.....always good to come across fellow people that are awake....


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## Skylar (Feb 11, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


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And by 'being assholes', you mean citing actual evidence rather than just accusations? 



> I was cordial and polite but I finally had enough. You could drive a brigade of tanks through the holes of the official story and I am embarrassed that I bought the official narrative for as long as I did...I doubt that I will ever be able to wash the stench off. Thanks for chiming in.....always good to come across fellow people that are awake....



Says the soul that would change topics whenever one of his claims was shot to holy hell by the evidence. If you were genuinely interested in the truth, you wouldn't have run. You would have addressed the evidence contradicting you. 

Instead, you changed topics. That's not what someone looking for truth or conversation does.


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 11, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


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EXACTLY. yep thats what everyone always finds out when trying to discuss it with these asshole paid shills.you go out out of your way to be nice to them and discuss it in a mature adult manner and when they know they are cornered and backed up against the wall.they evade the facts and change the topic and start calling you names.that was why now these days i have all these government paid shills on ignore that is always their behaviour.


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## Skylar (Feb 11, 2016)

What always happens when you try and discuss these issues is that truthers make claims they can't back up. And as you refute their claims with overwhelming evidence......they just flee to another topic. 

No one genuinely interested in truth would ever do this.


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## Dale Smith (Feb 11, 2016)

9/11 inside job said:


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 Well, thanks for having my back and chiming in at strategic times...it is appreciated. They tried to make me feel like I was abandoned and you were right yet again....good on ya.


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 11, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


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you might have been the only one posting here for the most part for a long time but thats because people like me,misterbeal and the others know what their real agenda is and dont waste time on them.

I was looking for your reply to my question i asked before but i cant seem to find that post of mine where i told you that because of the fact we were lied to all these decades about the JFK assassination and controlled in our school room classes on that,that was why when 9/11 happened my thoughts at the time were-I dont believe a fucking word of this,i think this is just the CIA media with their propaganda machine and they were the ones behind this thing same as with JFK just to get us into a another fake and phony war as they did back then.

for three years i had my suspecions but i wasnt aware of the facts so i held off going around telling people the CIA was behind it all until a friend of mine gave me some DVDs and i found out that while i wanted to be wrong,unfortuantely i was right.

the question i asked you back then was-did you have the same thoughts that I did that day saying-i dont believe a word of this,i think the CIA is behind this to get us all into another fake and phony war as they always do. did YOU have those same thoughts or not?

btw so you know,9/11 is the least of our problems we have to worry about from the government now.9/11 is just like the birth certificate they want us to argue with these paid infiltraters that have trolled your thread to spend our time wasting it on them while the government plots more and more sinister evil acts against us.

these paid shill infiltraters that have trolled your thread are ignorant in the fact they think the government will look out for them but in the end  they will find out out that they have plans to get rid of them same as us if they have their way so in the end,they will regret it participating in this coverup like they have thinking that money will buy them happiness.


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## Skylar (Feb 11, 2016)

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911.....your explanation sucks. Its just awful. Its wildly complicated, stupidly elaborate, requires the ridiculously unlikely and spontaneous conspiracy of thousands upon thousands of people, and is contradicted by overwhelming evidence.

That's why people don't buy the truther conspiracy: its stupid.


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## Papageorgio (Feb 11, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> Well, thanks for having my back and chiming in at strategic times...it is appreciated. They tried to make me feel like I was abandoned and you were right yet again....good on ya.



Sorry to disappoint you but I have been cordial to you and you still fail to back up your claims. I asked you to answers some specifics and you diverted to another subject.


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## Skylar (Feb 11, 2016)

Papageorgio said:


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Yes, Pap....but it was rude of you to ask them to back up their claims. The only polite thing to do would be to accept them without question.


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## Papageorgio (Feb 11, 2016)

Skylar said:


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Pretty funny they want you to believe them without evidence but not the government with evidence. I don't understand the lack of logic. 

The other issue is they get so ticked off, so fast after claiming to be open to discussion.


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## Skylar (Feb 11, 2016)

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I think they feel some sense of superiority in 'knowing what no one else knows'. Look at Dale's rants about how 'evolved' he is. He's invested emotionally pretty heavily in the idea.



> The other issue is they get so ticked off, so fast after claiming to be open to discussion.



Again, I think its the emotional investment. From what I can see, they build up a certain part of their sense of self around the idea of being privy to 'special knowledge'. If you demonstrate their their 'special knowledge' is just meaningless horseshit based on ignorance.....then they're not special. They're just stupid.

So when you dismantle the conspiracy, you dismantle part of their self image. And they react strongly in defense of their self image.


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## Papageorgio (Feb 11, 2016)

Skylar said:


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That makes sense, it explains the irrational thought process.


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## Dale Smith (Feb 12, 2016)

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Sorry that I missed your question but you are "dead on" about everything you said. The CIA was definitely behind the Kennedy murder along with the military industrial complex, the mafia, the FBI, Fed bankers, the Vatican and big oil that stood to lose a lot of money because he was going to eliminate their oil depletion allowance. One of the best documentaries that I have ever watched (and I have watched it 9 times) is the "JFK to 9/11...Everything Is A Rich Man's Trick" and you can watch it for free on youtube.....it is an eye-opener for sure. I knew back in 2003 that the OKC Murrah bombing never went down like we were told but I thought that there was a Muslim connection that was being purposely hidden from us but I have learned since (via many hours of research) that it was an FBI, ATF planned false flag attack to blame militia groups. McVeigh was a patsy that worked in black ops and was still technically in the military until at least August of 1993....well after the Waco fiasco that allegedly made him go rogue. I honestly believed the events of 9/11 were legit as told to us by "da gubermint" and I carried that flag for 11 years demonizing ANYONE that dared to say differently. I haven't been awake for as long as you have...but I have been trying to make up for lost time and trying to pay penance for being part of the problem instead of the solution. My eyes are wide open and I have become a "sponge for knowledge" as to how things really work. Once you start down that rabbit hole, there is no going back because you can't "unlearn" what you know is the truth...thanks for having my back and good on ya.


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## Skylar (Feb 12, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


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Unless they weren't. See, Dale, your absolutely certainty isn't actually evidence of anything you believe. You equate your believe with veracity and factual truth.

But they're not the same thing. You can believe something....and it can be completely and total horseshit.

Take your explanations for 911 as an example. They're just awful.  They are wildly complicated, stupidly elaborate, involves *way* too many people to be plausible, and are contradicted by overwhelming evidence.

And you know its contradicted by overwhelming evidence. As whenever that evidence is presented.......you just flee to another conspiracy.


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 12, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


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wow,you mean despite the fact you knew OKC did not go down the way they said it did and that despite the fact you were lied to by our corrupt school system and the CIA controlled media about the JFK assassination for over 3 decades that they managed to keep it a secret that long,that despite all that,you STILL didnt question 9/11 when it happened? Incredible.


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## Dale Smith (Feb 12, 2016)

9/11 inside job said:


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  Hey, it isn't anything that I am proud about and it's not an easy thing to admit or confess...I drank the kool-aid for a long time. At least give me credit for waking up to the scam...lol!!


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## SAYIT (Feb 13, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
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> > wow,you mean despite the fact you knew OKC did not go down the way they said it did and that despite the fact you were lied to by our corrupt school system and the CIA controlled media about the JFK assassination for over 3 decades that they managed to keep it a secret that long,that despite all that,you STILL didnt question 9/11 when it happened? Incredible.
> ...



And at the end of the day that's really what you live for ... a pat on the head from our resident Village Idiot and you'll do or say anything to get it.

The fact is you both suffer from paranoid delusions - often of grandeur - and regrettably neither of you seem capable of facing down your illness.

It is clear only professional help (and probably drugs) can open your eyes.


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 14, 2016)

have you seen these two videos by chance? the evidence in them is overwhelming that it was a joint CIA/mossad operation and all the paid shills on here of course will never watch them because they know they can only sling shit in defeat like the monkey trolls they are.


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 14, 2016)

Dale Smith said:


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yeah at least you are not afraid to look at the facts and watch videos like so many trolls here are.thats for sure.
to no surprise the only ones left posting on your threads are two paid shills  of the government.


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