# why do Blacks use welfare at 6 times the rate of Whites?



## IanC (Sep 14, 2011)

Characteristics and Financial Circumstances - FY 2008

actually it is more than 6 times but that is nitpicking. why are blacks so vulnerable to being incapable of taking care of themselves? the numbers for using govt handout programs are even more skewed. why do so many blacks settle for a marginal parasitic lifestyle?

why do so many blacks fail to acquire lifeskills necessary for middleclass living? is it capability, substandard values and culture or is it just racism and lack of opportunity?

has affirmative action run into the brick wall of human capital? is it possible to drag more blacks into the middleclass by handing out more govt and AA jobs to underqualified minorities or have we reached the point of diminished returns?


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## Ernie S. (Sep 14, 2011)

Dayum! Facts are just so.... racist.


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## Sherry (Sep 14, 2011)

They can go out now and conquer the world, with no fear of failure...they have Obama as inspiration.


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## IanC (Sep 14, 2011)

Ernie S. said:


> Dayum! Facts are just so.... racist.



they are not so much facts as data. inspecting data is a good way to find a useful direction for more investigation. our social programs have helped some problems and caused others. we shouldnt just ignore inconvenient findings because someone might be offended. I think we can do a lot more for minority developement but it has to be tied to personal responsibility and effort rather than simply group affiliation.


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## mudwhistle (Sep 14, 2011)

70% have single parent households for one. 

The other thing is getting good grades isn't cool. 

Many choose to dress with their pants around their knees so they have problems getting a job. 

Besides, they have powerful lobbys in Washington like the NAACP, the CBC, and the Rainbow coalition so many don't try as hard as they should.


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## racewright (Sep 14, 2011)

Because Abortion has to be paid for


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## racewright (Sep 14, 2011)

racewright said:


> Because Abortion has to be paid for



Sorry maybe bad joke

Really thought the Liberal dems for some reason have them in a trance.  What is it about 40 years that the Dems have carried the Black Vote.  One would think by now they would be fed up with, shall I dare say sucking hind Tit.
You know I bet very few Blacks know that Linclon was a republican.  And also the white man is the race that forced the civil war in order to free the blacks and were mostly republicans.  In the USA today Bullshit goes a long way just ask our newest leader.


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## IanC (Sep 14, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> 70% have single parent households for one.
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> The other thing is getting good grades isn't cool.
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> ...



your vote is for dysfunctional culture. you have a valid point.


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## Sallow (Sep 14, 2011)

Just goes to show you what a horrific institution slavery and Jim Crow..actually were.

Poverty like wealth is inherited. Two fold if you live in a country that regards skin color as a basis for intellect, ability, integrity and merit.


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## deregulateTHIS (Sep 14, 2011)

Does this apply to every state in the US?  There are plenty of Whites in Texas who are on welfare.


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## IanC (Sep 14, 2011)

racewright said:


> Because Abortion has to be paid for



blacks have abortions at a rate that is multiple of the whites. STD rates are vastly larger for blacks than whites. carelessness or inability to forecast consequences of impulsive acts of behaviour?


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## Ernie S. (Sep 14, 2011)

Sallow said:


> Just goes to show you what a horrific institution slavery and Jim Crow..actually were.
> 
> Poverty like wealth is inherited. Two fold if you live in a country that regards skin color as a basis for intellect, ability, integrity and merit.



Get the fuck over it already! Slavery has been over for a hundred and fifty years. Take some personal responsibility for once in your miserable life. Demand it of others!


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## IanC (Sep 14, 2011)

deregulateTHIS said:


> Does this apply to every state in the US?  There are plenty of Whites in Texas who are on welfare.



did you look at the link? 

there are more black families on welfare than whites. when you factor in that there are 6 times as many whites than blacks that leads to a large disparity in the black rate compared to the white rate.


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## IanC (Sep 14, 2011)

Sallow said:


> Just goes to show you what a horrific institution slavery and Jim Crow..actually were.
> 
> Poverty like wealth is inherited. Two fold if you live in a country that regards skin color as a basis for intellect, ability, integrity and merit.



a vote for racism and lack of opportunity. you have a valid point. would you care to give your opinion on how much of the problem is directly related to racism etc compared to the other factors?


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## Sallow (Sep 14, 2011)

Ernie S. said:


> Sallow said:
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Um.

Your history is lousy chief. Slavery was slowly phased out after the civil war. Then most of the country was under de facto aparthied. It wasn't until 1960 or so that you begin to see legislation that protects the rights of people who are black. And it really wasn't more then another decade until programs that helped infuse a little parity into the mix came online. Those were under relentless attacks begining in the 80s.

40 acres and a mule was probably the way to go. But it is was over before it happened.

But true parity would have been enslaving the enslavers for a century or so.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXKep5xvs4w&feature=related]Kill Bill vol. 1 - Vernita vs Beatrix.mp4 - YouTube[/ame]

Fast forward to 5:43 to get the gist.


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## Sallow (Sep 14, 2011)

IanC said:


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164 of years of slavery and about 3 or so more decades of Jim Crow is suddenly wiped out by 26 or so years of "equality".

Man you guys stink at math.


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## signelect (Sep 14, 2011)

I am sick of the racist card every time you mention a difference in one culture or another.  We are all racist in one way or another but when you see one issue after another time after time and it is always the same culture you do have to wonder what causes it.  I am sick of the pants and underwear thing and if that is racist then you are right I am a racist, pull your #$%^ pant up.


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## IanC (Sep 14, 2011)

Sallow said:


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do you totally discount the studies that show correlation between acquisition of useable skills and outcomes? similarly qualified members of any race tend to have similar outcomes.


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## toxicmedia (Sep 14, 2011)

IanC said:


> Characteristics and Financial Circumstances - FY 2008
> 
> actually it is more than 6 times but that is nitpicking. why are blacks so vulnerable to being incapable of taking care of themselves? the numbers for using govt handout programs are even more skewed. why do so many blacks settle for a marginal parasitic lifestyle?
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This is caused by long term social disadvatnges typical of demographic groups that start out enslaved then are discriminated against and disempowered by their former masters.

It's the same all over the world with demographics of similar experience.


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## Sallow (Sep 14, 2011)

IanC said:


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What "useable" skill set do you get from total subjugation? This ought to be interesting.


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## IanC (Sep 14, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


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OK, another vote for racism and lack of opportunity. do you think the social programs now in place are doing a good job? should we stay the course or try to find more competent ways of uplifting blacks and ameliorating dysfunctional cultural artifacts of past discrimination? which might presumably be cheaper than the 'slavery tax' we are paying to support an underclass. do you think it is possible to shrink the black underclass to a size that is more in line with other races?


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## IanC (Sep 14, 2011)

Sallow said:


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there are lots of middleclass blacks so it obviously can be done. what subjugation are you talking about? you either work at acquiring useable skills or you dont. there are lots of white kids who throw away their opportunities but it is much more common with black kids. why, and what can be done?


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## Tank (Sep 14, 2011)

On average low IQ's


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## Nosmo King (Sep 14, 2011)

Ernie S. said:


> Sallow said:
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Slavery ended, but the Jinm Crow south was there by legislative mandate.  How is it so many Conservatives want to ignore that era?  Probably because they not only supported it but are responsible for the legislation that started it in the first place.

And responders, please note I said Conservatives.  I'm referring to the political ideology, not a specific political party.

So, Jim Crow cut the American Black's collective knees off.  No chance for Blacks to become successful and build the necessary networks to bring others along.

All because of racism, and then the stupid and lurid defense of state's rights.


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## Sallow (Sep 14, 2011)

IanC said:


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That middle class is the result of programs like Affirmative Action, PELL, BEOG, SEEK and many other outreach initiatives meant to educate people who are in dire straits financially.


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## Tank (Sep 14, 2011)

If you think blacks are doing poorly in America, check out the rest of the world


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## IanC (Sep 14, 2011)

Tank said:


> On average low IQ's



I must admit I am of the opinion that lower average intelligence is a major factor in disparate racial outcomes. but I am not sure that it is the only factor, or that we should just stop looking for effective ways to improve the lives of minorities. tying affirmative action to actual effort and accomplishment may be able to have a strong positive effect on improving dysfunctional culture.


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## rdean (Sep 14, 2011)

How come many white business owners won't hire a black person?

Why is the Republican Party 90% white?

Interesting questions.


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## Tank (Sep 14, 2011)

IanC said:


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Also high testosterone levels don't help either.


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## Tank (Sep 14, 2011)

rdean said:


> How come many white business owners won't hire a black person?


Blacks have proven to be poor employees on average.



rdean said:


> Why is the Republican Party 90% white?


Scientists are 90% white too.


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## squeeze berry (Sep 14, 2011)

Sallow said:


> Just goes to show you what a horrific institution slavery and Jim Crow..actually were.
> 
> Poverty like wealth is inherited. Two fold if you live in a country that regards skin color as a basis for intellect, ability, integrity and merit.



if poverty can be inherited, so can stupidity and laziness


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## mudwhistle (Sep 14, 2011)

Sallow said:


> Just goes to show you what a horrific institution slavery and Jim Crow..actually were.
> 
> Poverty like wealth is inherited. Two fold if you live in a country that regards skin color as a basis for intellect, ability, integrity and merit.



My folks lived in poverty and I'm not poor now. 

My wife's mother worked in the fields in Alabama during the Great Depression. She had 12 kids that lived. My wife left home when she was 12 and got married, got the crap beat out of her by two husbands, but when I met her she was making $120,000 a year. 

I think each person answers to their own actions. 

Blacks have control over their own lives and their own futures. It would help if the political party that they support actually did something to get them on the same level as everyone else, but they don't. 

Being black in predominantly black communities means living off the government and just waiting for someone to help you. Black themed movies are made of winning the lottery because that's what so many of them hope for. The negativity they are immersed in permeates every facet of their lives. 

The only way blacks can be successful is by playing by the same rules everyone else does and working hard. That means leaving the neighborhoods they grew up in and moving out into the rest of American society. As long as they hang together most of them will suffer. Perhaps Obama is offering them hope in one way. They can imagine now that the color of their skin isn't the road-block they thought it was.


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## yidnar (Sep 14, 2011)

Nosmo King said:


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soooo racism causes STDs ?? Silly me.... I thought unprotected sex with anything that moves did ........


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## yidnar (Sep 14, 2011)

Sallow said:


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I honestly  don't know .....Maybe the Jew's can tell you !!


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## yidnar (Sep 14, 2011)

rdean said:


> How come many white business owners won't hire a black person?
> 
> Why is the Republican Party 90% white?
> 
> Interesting questions.


why are a disproportionate number of blacks being given cushy government job's ?? why are 90% of blacks democrats ??


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## toxicmedia (Sep 14, 2011)

IanC said:


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What I wrote is not "another vote for racism and lack of opportunity"....though I'm not even sure what that means to be honest. It sounds like veiled racism to me.

I'm also not sure what social programs you're referring to. If you're referring to welfare...it needs further reforms, and those reforms will need Democrats to lay off of undoing the Clinton reforms. If you're referring to affrimative action...It should be scrapped whenever a protected demographic shows stats that are in sync with the national averages, not before...especially just because you got mad at black firefighters getting hired over whites who scored higher on tests. 

Blacks are never going to feel uplifted as long as you are criticizing them for being dysfunctional and berating them for the social disadvantages a dissproportianate number of them still face, in spite of the foolsih notion that everything is a-okay now that the CRA passed in the 60's. 

Based on the intellectually repulsive nature of your posts on this subject...I'd advise againt your being involved in shrinking the black underclass to a size that is more in line with other races. You sound less than understanding and woefully out of range of a cogent and constructive attitude about the black experience.


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## Flagwavrusa (Sep 14, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


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"You do not take a person who, for years, has been hobbled by chains and liberate him, bring him up to the starting line of a race and then say, "you are free to compete with all the others," and still justly believe that you have been completely fair."

That's Lyndon Johnson, saying the same thing. Nearly 50 years ago!

Blacks' opportunities in America are limited only by their own abilities. Half a century after affirmative action began it's time to stop making excuses.


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## Salt Jones (Sep 14, 2011)

Flagwavrusa said:


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Says who? 1776 to 1968 seems to be longer than 50 years.


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## del (Sep 14, 2011)

Salt Jones said:


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can't fool you for long, huh?


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## Gem (Sep 14, 2011)

While I think it is foolish to state that racism is gone and not something we need to be concerned with anymore...I think its equally foolish to blame the problems facing the African American community solely at the feet of white people. 

The marriage rate of African Americans was, if I'm not mistaken, as good as, if not stronger than the white population in the decades following the Civil War (yes, I know I should link...but I am just chatting now, if the conversation continues I'll try to find that data).  It did not begin its fall until the entitlement programs of the 60's...in my opinion, right around the time we began telling the black community that a) white people were to blame for all their problems and b) they would never ever be able to make anything of themselves without white people's help.

While I agree that in the 60's, the problems of the black community were largely those caused by the racism and ignorance of white Americans...I do not think that is largely the case today.  I do think, however, that we are still telling the black community that unless they are helped by the "ruling class" they can not make it on their own because they are too oppressed.  

When 70% of children are born in single-mother families, when so many of those families are not financially stable, when so many of these people know nothing else but reliance on government programs to survive through MULTIPLE generations, when their children are faced with poor role models, failing schools and consistently lowered expectations....no one should be surprised that the community is in trouble.

I feel strongly, however, that white racism - in the way some here have suggested (that is, the evil white republican not wanting to hire the black man), is NOT the problem anymore...and instead, far more hurtful has been the government-sponsored culture of "don't worry about it, you are facing far too much racism from evil whites to ever stand a chance of making it on your own...let us take care of you...and your children...and their children...all you need to do is vote for us."


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## IanC (Sep 14, 2011)

squeeze berry said:


> Sallow said:
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stupidity (the reckless portion) and laziness are part of a group of behavioural traits called executive function. EF is even more heritable than intelligence.

poverty is just a symptom of low functioning social behaviour except for temporary circumstances like being a student.

I find it funny that behaviours associated with slavery are often accepted as inherited in an unchallenged fashion but traits like intelligence are denied as genetic even with overwhelming supporting evidence.


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## Zander (Sep 14, 2011)

Clearly, this is George Bush's fault.


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## Tank (Sep 14, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzspsovNvII]Chapter - It&#39;s Free Swipe Yo EBT (Explicit) - YouTube[/ame]


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## Rozman (Sep 14, 2011)

IanC said:


> Characteristics and Financial Circumstances - FY 2008
> 
> actually it is more than 6 times but that is nitpicking. why are blacks so vulnerable to being incapable of taking care of themselves? the numbers for using govt handout programs are even more skewed. why do so many blacks settle for a marginal parasitic lifestyle?
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They feel it's their right.
They feel it's something owed to them.
They feel it the government is stupid enough to give stuff away why not take it.
They feel the government has plenty of money,they won't mind being scammed for more.
Why bother to work when voting for Libs will keep them in free stuff.
They feel they are victims because the Libs tell them so.


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## Xchel (Sep 15, 2011)

Ernie S. said:


> Sallow said:
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slavery is that old, but equality is not...it is in most of our lifetimes that we remember when institutionalized racism was perfectly acceptable as well as racism..that takes longer than one lifetime to over come.  So let's find out where we are in 2070 and then we can discuss whether it is really over or not...MLK fought for something ..and if with the end of slavery also had came equal rights you might have a point, but it didn't so nothing really changed with the end of slavery and in fact things became worse.


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## Moonglow (Sep 15, 2011)

Zander said:


> Clearly, this is George Bush's fault.



if you say so.....


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## Moonglow (Sep 15, 2011)

Rozman said:


> IanC said:
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If libs are the problem with freebies given to blacks, whywas the situation not reversed when republicans controlled the congress and the presidencyseveral years back?


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## Tank (Sep 15, 2011)

Xchel, do you think blacks were enslaved because of their skin color?


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## Xchel (Sep 15, 2011)

I think that what you are asking has nothing to do with the discussion we have at hand considering that whites and Native Americans were enslaved as well..the difference is equality and the rights that were afforded to each group that made huge differences in how things turned out.


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## Tank (Sep 15, 2011)

Is that a yes or a no?


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## Xchel (Sep 15, 2011)

Tank said:


> Is that a yes or a no?



the answer is why does it matter really? First of all I know they were picked for their strength, etc...as slaves but white Europeans also considered those of color as inferior citizens not entitled to the same rights as whites.


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## Tank (Sep 15, 2011)

Xchel said:


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If blacks were so strong, how were they enslaved so easliy?


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## uscitizen (Sep 15, 2011)

Seems like I heard somewhere that stats say that whites in america make 20X more money than Blacks.


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## Moonglow (Sep 15, 2011)

Tank said:


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by force


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## Xchel (Sep 15, 2011)

Moonglow said:


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exactly...sounds like Tank needs to brush up on history a little and he is worrying about the why crap when he needs to focus on the more present stuff of equality.  I have to wonder if Tank thinks that slavery should still be legal?


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## Nosmo King (Sep 15, 2011)

yidnar said:


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Golly!  Where on earth did you find the perch to jump to such a conclusion?  STDs?!?  Who said anything about STDs?


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## mudwhistle (Sep 15, 2011)

This thread is a bit retarded.


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## editec (Sep 15, 2011)

The number one root cause of poverty in the USA is starting out without enough money AT CHILDHOOD.

As BLACKS traditionally have now and have always been rather short of capital to raise themselves and their families out of poverty, we see this problem reverberating through one generation after the other.

I know that isn't what many of you want to believe, of course, but that is really the root cause of why Blacks are not prepared (as so many of their White neighbors are) to climb out of poverty.

Being poor changes the way you see opportunity because the opportunity that people with even _a slight benefit have_ is NOT available to you and yours.


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## MDHJTAI (Sep 15, 2011)

Sallow said:


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## Tank (Sep 15, 2011)

editec said:


> The number one root cause of poverty in the USA is starting out without enough money AT CHILDHOOD.
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> As BLACKS traditionally have now and have always been rather short of capital to raise themselves and their families out of poverty, we see this problem reverberating through one generation after the other.
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Shit, Mexicans come illegaly here from Mexico everyday without money and can't speak the language, and they are doing better then blacks.


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## Xchel (Sep 15, 2011)

Tank said:


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Yes, they come without money and some of them can't speak the language, but I am not so sure that working 80-100 hrs a week for minimum wage or just a little more is actually fairing better than blacks.


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## Tank (Sep 15, 2011)

Xchel said:


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I don't think slavery should ever happen, but I understand why it did.

If all races of people are equal, blacks could never have been enslaved.


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## IanC (Sep 15, 2011)

uscitizen said:


> Seems like I heard somewhere that stats say that whites in america make 20X more money than Blacks.


I think you are confusing income with accumulated wealth. whites tend to put money into capital, blacks tend to spend all their income. having equity allows whites to take advantage of opportunities so the gap expands. this is also true at all income levels so it isnt just caused by lower average black earnings. whites also tend to invest in their children to a higher degree. it is the basic idea behind the fable 'the ant and the grasshopper'. it is a detriment to society for the competent ants to pay for the parasitic grasshoppers. why should people work hard to pay for those who are lazy?


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## toxicmedia (Sep 15, 2011)

IanC said:


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What's your damage?.....have you been afraid of blacks?.....beaten up as a child?......been robed or assaulted by blacks?.....been passed over for a job due to affirmative action?......or just programmed by conservative media to think that welfare is a big part of our economic mess?......or are you a racist hick who learned hate from his daddy?....or a skinhead/KKK member?.......

.......why are you resentful towards blacks?.....and......do you think blacks are inferior?


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## Moonglow (Sep 15, 2011)

Tank said:


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Wow, what logic


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## IanC (Sep 16, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


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why do you think its personal? I dont personally resent blacks, I personally resent parasites on society. I support helping people who actually improve with assistance. I just get pissed at those who only hold their hands out for charity and then get angry because they want to be given more. I personally resent those who claim their morality and individual standards are equal to mine but demand that I feed them, cure their sicknesses and raise their children. whatever the race. but I do think it is reasonable to point out that blacks are massively over represented in all negative social traits and they should at least try to change the dysfunctional aspects of black culture that lead to those behaviours. black kids are far behind in socialisation and thinking skills before they even get to school. and that is the fault of black parents.

of course I am talking averages, some blacks are smart and well behaved. dont bother bringing up individual stories of success because we are talking group averages.


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 16, 2011)

IanC said:


> Characteristics and Financial Circumstances - FY 2008
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> actually it is more than 6 times but that is nitpicking. why are blacks so vulnerable to being incapable of taking care of themselves? the numbers for using govt handout programs are even more skewed. why do so many blacks settle for a marginal parasitic lifestyle?
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The left has spent 50 years teaching them they are victims and have no responsibility for their selves.


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## editec (Sep 16, 2011)

The American dream is the dream of social mobility.

It's not called A DREAM for nothing, ya know.

And as unlikely as that dream was, even in the best of times, upward social mobility is even less likely for our children's generation than it was for us, and FAR less likely for our children than it was for their grandfathers.

We can post all the rags to riches stories we like but the statistics show us that the American DREAM is mostly exactly that...a dream, not a reality.


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## toxicmedia (Sep 16, 2011)

IanC said:


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Negative social traits and the dysfunctional aspects of black culture were created by environmental conditions specific to the US between 1640-1970. African Europeans do not have dissproportianate wefare, illliteracy, infant mortality, and educational stats compared to other races. In Europe, middle eastern Europeans have the dissproportianate stats. 

There is something about the process of stripping african American slaves of thier family identities, then denying them equal human rights, that caused the long term social disadvantages we see amongst blacks in the US...IMO The difference between other groups who came to America and were oppressed...like the Irish, Italians, and Asians for example...all retained thier family structure. 

Where I do agree with you is how chronic welfare system manipulators need to be shut out, and that I why I oppose Democratic attempts to soften the Clinton welfare reforms and stand in the way of further reforms. 

Thanks for the clarification as to why you created this thread. I take back anything that may have been insulting.


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## IanC (Sep 16, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


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thanks for that last part. I enjoy playing Devil's Advocate but in reality I have retained a lot of 70's liberal attitudes. I just think we should carefully examine problems and the enacted 'solutions' to see if they are reflecting reality.

I think you may be wrong about africans in Europe. they are one of many minority groups that are having a difficult time assimilating into european culture. for instance, in France there are ghetto-like areas in many cities where the immigrants cannot or will not acquire the education and qualifications necessary to work in a highly technological society. many stop trying, and sit around on govt assistance harbouring a growing resentment against a lifestyle they have not attained. or the nordic countries that have sexual assaults that are almost completely commited by immigrants who think swedish girls deserve it because of how they dress and act. should the Swedes change their culture or should the immigrants adopt swedish values?


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## racewright (Sep 16, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


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Then how is it they can play ball and sing so gooooooood


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## High_Gravity (Sep 16, 2011)

Tank said:


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How do you figure that?


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## OohPooPahDoo (Sep 16, 2011)

IanC said:


> Characteristics and Financial Circumstances - FY 2008
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> actually it is more than 6 times but that is nitpicking. why are blacks so vulnerable to being incapable of taking care of themselves? the numbers for using govt handout programs are even more skewed. why do so many blacks settle for a marginal parasitic lifestyle?
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Because they're smarter than whites?


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## IanC (Sep 16, 2011)

OohPooPahDoo said:


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> > Characteristics and Financial Circumstances - FY 2008
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indeed there are people who will settle for less because it is free rather than put in the work and effort to have more. whether that is 'smarter' is a good topic for debate. how many freeloaders can society support before it collapses?


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## Tank (Sep 16, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> > editec said:
> ...


Unemployment, prison populations, dropouts.......


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## racewright (Sep 16, 2011)

If all races started on a level playing field than the blacks are last to develop there skills other than physical.  Reason and cause  for slavery.

Oh just a few more facts,racism is not illegal just not nice,Abe Lincoln was a republican.

If the Blacks do not like the way there share of America is then why have they been Voting for the Democrats for the last 40 years.

If Obama is going to prove anything it will be that the politicans only make things worse with inabling people.  Your piece of American is there and you have to work for it not expect it to be handed to you.


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## toxicmedia (Sep 16, 2011)

IanC said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > IanC said:
> ...


My only experience with African Europeans were German and British AEs'. This same subject actualy came up when I was speaking with British AE freinds of mine in Reading in the UK. I was told AE's in Europe don't share the long term social disadvantages that African Americans did, and still do. Europe abandoned slavery...IN Europe...long before Americans did. Now you've got my cusriosity going....think I'll google me up some European crime stats by race if I can find them.

If Republicans get their way...and do away with public education in the US...we're going to have the majority of our society unable to acquire the education and qualifications necessary to work in a highly technological society.

I thought Swedish immigration was mostly middle eastern?.....once again....my curiosity.

EDIT>>>>>>>>>>>..........check this out.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...esh-light-on-link-between-crime-and-race.html


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## toxicmedia (Sep 16, 2011)

racewright said:


> If all races started on a level playing field than the blacks are last to develop there skills other than physical.  Reason and cause  for slavery.
> 
> Oh just a few more facts,racism is not illegal just not nice,Abe Lincoln was a republican.
> 
> ...


Blacks were selectively bred from about 1700-1850. Slave owners/traders would use big strong men as studs, to create a more profitable product. Blacks did not develop "their physical skills", per se, in a way that would allow them to become compenetent at sports. 

As for the whole singing/music thing.....I don't see blacks as superior performers.

Blacks vote Democratic because too many Republicans are white southern and midwestern Christian conservatives.....basically the sons and daughters of former segregationists and KKK folks. I don't blame them for not being Republican


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## domonkoz (Sep 17, 2011)

should explain it a bit for ya champ.


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## OohPooPahDoo (Sep 17, 2011)

racewright said:


> If the Blacks do not like the way there share of America is then why have they been Voting for the Democrats for the last 40 years.



Because the bigots quit the Democratic Party after the Civil Rights Act and joined the Republican party.


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## OohPooPahDoo (Sep 17, 2011)

ianc said:


> characteristics and financial circumstances - fy 2008
> 
> actually it is more than 6 times but that is nitpicking. Why are blacks so vulnerable to being incapable of taking care of themselves? The numbers for using govt handout programs are even more skewed. Why do so many blacks settle for a marginal parasitic lifestyle?
> 
> ...





answer: Lack of start up capital


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## Zona (Sep 17, 2011)

Ernie S. said:


> Dayum! Facts are just so.... racist.



It could have something to do with Non equality for so long in this country.  You do realize we are the only race IN THIS COUNTRY who were slaves here.  It takes a long long time to turn that off and just  50 years ago, we couldn't even vote.  We couldn't eat where we wanted, was always the last to be hired etc etc...Again, there are so many repercussions of our own past and it takes time.

There are so many black upper/middle class people now.  It takes time for this to increase but it has increased even in my lifetime. 

Before you start, of course you didnt own slaves.  I guarantee you though, someone in your past benefited from blacks being slaves/someone taking advantage of blacks in your family's history.  Again, it takes time and we are too close to the changes made fairly recently.  I am a middle class black man who's daughter is in college.  No one in my family is on welfare but I know a few of their parents who were.  Things are getting better as time passes but again, in my life time, SO MUCH HAS CHANGED. 

The future looks so damn good for Blacks.


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## Zona (Sep 17, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


> racewright said:
> 
> 
> > If all races started on a level playing field than the blacks are last to develop there skills other than physical.  Reason and cause  for slavery.
> ...


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## Zona (Sep 17, 2011)

Sallow said:


> Just goes to show you what a horrific institution slavery and Jim Crow..actually were.
> 
> Poverty like wealth is inherited. Two fold if you live in a country that regards skin color as a basis for intellect, ability, integrity and merit.


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## Zona (Sep 17, 2011)

Sallow said:


> IanC said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



26 years....get over it.  Every thing is equal now.  blah blah..

If a person is honest about this all they know it will take time for generational welfare recipients to get off welfare.  It is changing.  I personally dont know any black person on welfare...certainly not anyone in my family or any of my friends. 

My question is, why are there so many whites on welfare.  What the hell is their excuse?  They didnt have to deal with what we have in our past.  

Here is the good thing about our future.  The old racists are dying off.  They really are but as long as they are around (and they saw a totally different america back in the 60's and before) it will be a bad thing for america. 

This is why you hear things like....lets take our country back or how they miss the good ol days.


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## Zona (Sep 17, 2011)

Imagine coming back from vietnam in the early 60's and being black.  You couldn't eat in certain places even when in uniform.  You had to ride on the back of the bush even in uniform.  Lets say you got injured and lost a leg or something and yet some guy in Alabama is calling you boy and there is nothing you can do about it.

You actually expect that mindset to suddenly change because of a law passed a little later?  Those fucking people are still alive unfortunatly.


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## Tank (Sep 17, 2011)

Blacks had hundreds of years for a head start.


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## Ernie S. (Sep 17, 2011)

Zona said:


> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> > Dayum! Facts are just so.... racist.
> ...


The future does indeed look good, if your family becomes a role model.

I'm apparently a lot older than you, so I have a perspective you lack. When I was a kid, blacks actually had a lower percentage of divorce and single parent homes than whites. They were hard working ethical people. Somewhere in the mid 60's that turned around to the point where many young black men, in stead of providing for their families, have 2, 3 or more "baby mommies", all raising children that have a less than even chance of joining the middle class. Kudos to your parents for not falling, or allowing you to fall into that trap.
We can sit here and argue all day about what caused the disintegration of the black family. I have my opinion, but I don't want to argue that point here.
Suffice it to say, had the events that took place starting in the early to mid 60's not happened, far more of your race would be in the position you find yourself.
If as I posit, the events of the last 50 years caused this dramatic disintegration, your attempt to blame the plight of blacks on slavery and/or Jim Crow fall far short.
As far as my family, interestingly enough, I did recently find (only) one source that claimed my mother's family did own 3 house slaves at some point before the revolution. This man, had apparently freed his slaves by 1790.

As a side note, He was the only person to sign the Declaration of Independence, The Articles of Confederation and the US Constitution.


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## Tank (Sep 17, 2011)

Clearly it's slavery and racism holding black folks back, because blacks are doing so great in the rest of the world.


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## IanC (Sep 18, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


> IanC said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



swedish immigration is mostly middle eastern. I was pointing out an example of how diferent value systems can clash. 

your link from England is interesting. I think it is unfortunate that many black communities suffer from excess crime and the extra policing that would be very useful for the ordinary good citizens is seen as police racism and intimidation, at least in the media. no win situation for the police, all lose situation for those who could more protection.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 19, 2011)

Tank said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Tank said:
> ...



The Mexicans that come here illegally are not standing up to be accounted for, there is no way to know for sure whos doing what. How is coming here illegally and working an under the table job being better than a Black person? as soon as you cross that border without papers you are committing a crime.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 19, 2011)

Tank said:


> Blacks had hundreds of years for a head start.



When did this happen?


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## Tank (Sep 19, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> > Blacks had hundreds of years for a head start.
> ...


In Africa


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## toxicmedia (Sep 19, 2011)

Tank said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Tank said:
> ...


You know......Mr Tank......I don't know you, so I can't tell if you're being facecious.....if you're not joking.....that is perhaps the most retarded thing I've ever heard anybody say. 

I really hope you're kidding.


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## toxicmedia (Sep 19, 2011)

IanC said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > IanC said:
> ...


What I took away from that article was a little different. I'm not really concerned about how protected British white folks may be from blacks. 

What struck me is how current racial prejudices still factor into poverty levels amongst the demographics in question, and how the long term social disadvantages combined with that can possibly be the entire reason for what we see. The only other possible factor is racial inferiority....and from the standpoint of a former Anthropology major....that's not possible.


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## Tank (Sep 19, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...


Kidding about what?

Blacks were the first and only humans on earth for thousands of years before other races evolved.


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## IanC (Sep 19, 2011)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> ianc said:
> 
> 
> > characteristics and financial circumstances - fy 2008
> ...



I wonder if you understand what I mean by human capital or the implications of it. 

if you lay down a list of jobs that need to be filled to run a modern technological society and then match it up to the population with its natural variation of character and intelligence, how does it match up? are there enough individuals with the neccessary intelligence and drive to become  competent doctors, engineers, leaders, tradesmen etc? is it better to have a surplus of high ability individuals so that even less prestigious jobs can attract competent people? of course. 

blacks have a lower average intelligence which leads to a lower competence in jobs needing understanding in complex and abstract thought. there are not enough candidates to fill the upper echelon jobs in black societies.  not only that but less competent individuals are, by neccessity, used in jobs that they are likely to fail in simply because there is no one better. and the next tier of jobs is now missing the individuals who were taken above even though they didnt have the qualifications. this mismatch continues all the way down and is one of the main reasons why it appears as if blacks are less competent in society. if they were allowed to seek a more natural level they would perform as well as others but when they are put into a situation were they are woefully underqualified it should be no surprise that they are more likely to fail than others who are qualified.

which person is more likely to be proficient at being a teacher? an IQ85 black or an IQ100 white (both are racially average). in most cases it would be the white and state competency exams bear this out. but what would happen in the case of equally intelligent black and white individuals? it is doubtful that there would be a significant difference.

unfortunately society most often compares on a strictly racial basis and ignores individual attributes, abilities and attainments.


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## toxicmedia (Sep 19, 2011)

Tank said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Tank said:
> ...


It's really wrong to attribute all those millions of years of early homonid development in Africa to some kind of "head start" for blacks in the US and Europe after 1630. 

Sure enough...early homonids seem to have started in Africa. But racial differences in homo sapiens today are merely adaptations to various climates. Tecdhnology development happened based on need. For example...equatorial peoples didn't ever have the need for shelter that keeps them from freezing to death. The Nordic peoples that survived natural selection had small noses and narrow nasal passages, so cold air couldn't get in as fast. There are millions of variations in homo sapiens these days and I don't know of any that include an intellectual inferiority or superiority

I think you're oversimplfying this.


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## IanC (Sep 19, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


> IanC said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



I'm sorry that I didnt explain myself more clearly. majority minority communities often have both more perps and more victims. increased policing commiserate with the amount of crime would benifit potential victims but at the 'cost' of directing more policing at potential minority criminals. is this a reasonable trade off or should the dominant society just accept that certain areas have a different set of values and ignore the discrepancies?

as an anthropology student you believe that humans develope different physical traits and behavioural traits for different conditions but somehow brain characteristics wereleft unchanged. it is interesting how political correctness has corrupted logical conclusions.


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## Zona (Sep 19, 2011)

Ernie S. said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> > Ernie S. said:
> ...



You are exactly who I am talking about.  You actually believe the 60's were the good ol days.  They may have been for you, but not us.  There were very few middle class and even less upper class blacks back then compaired to now.  That in itself proves my point.  We are doing much much better now.

Those are not good ol days for us.  You see what you want to see now but I dont.  

AGain...no one in my family or circle of black friends are on or even close to welfare.  I will repeat...YOU SEE WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE.


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## Tank (Sep 19, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


> Tecdhnology development happened based on need. For example...equatorial peoples didn't ever have the need for shelter that keeps them from freezing to death.


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## IanC (Sep 19, 2011)

Zona said:


> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> > Zona said:
> ...



you deny that blacks are over represented as welfare recipients, criminals and the under educated because you arent? perhaps you could prove men arent bigger and more aggressive than women because you have a big assed aunt that likes to kick butt too.

no sense in looking at data when we can just ask you


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## uscitizen (Sep 19, 2011)

why do Blacks use welfare at 6 times the rate of Whites? 
Because whites make 20X as much money as blacks do?


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## IanC (Sep 19, 2011)

like many others in the 70's I thought blacks would rapidly rise up to equality in achievement given half a chance. the last 40 years has disabused me of that sentiment. there are many more factors involved than racism.


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## IanC (Sep 19, 2011)

uscitizen said:


> why do Blacks use welfare at 6 times the rate of Whites?
> Because whites make 20X as much money as blacks do?



I am a bit sceptical of your numbers but why do you think blacks earn less money than whites?


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## Tank (Sep 19, 2011)

uscitizen said:


> why do Blacks use welfare at 6 times the rate of Whites?
> Because whites make 20X as much money as blacks do?


Whites are 20X smarter


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## auditor0007 (Sep 20, 2011)

Sallow said:


> IanC said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



I pretty much agree with what you are saying.  However, from years of dealing with Blacks, I have come to the conclusion that there is little we can do to change their situation.  It honestly has gotten to the point that they must do for themselves.  What this all boils down to is for blacks to take advantage of the educational opportunities they have.  Yes, they are discriminated, still to this day, but they have to have the will to overcome.  While they, as an ethnic group, have more going against them than any other ethnic group has, they still have to step up to the plate.  Jews, Poles, Irish, Italians, and many others have faced discrimination in this country, but they overcame, and they did it by taking advantage of our free education system.  

My wife and I raised her half nephew, who happened to be half black.  As he got older, despite being given every opportunity, he turned toward the dark side, no pun intended.  He dropped out of school, ended up in prison, now has fathered two kids by two different women, and the story of the average black male continues on.  Honestly, I just don't get it.


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## Tank (Sep 20, 2011)

Blacks do better in America then any other place in the world.


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## Xchel (Sep 20, 2011)

tank that is bs and you know it.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 20, 2011)

Xchel said:


> tank that is bs and you know it.



How so? I don't agree with Tank most of the time but he makes a good point.


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## Tank (Sep 20, 2011)

Xchel said:


> tank that is bs and you know it.


You should have just named a place where blacks are doing better


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## Xchel (Sep 20, 2011)

ever been to Central America? A good portion of the folks there live in Garifuna communities and do fine self sustaining.  Fabulous cooks many of them have restaurants or sell food in tourism areas.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 20, 2011)

Xchel said:


> ever been to Central America? A good portion of the folks there live in Garifuna communities and do fine self sustaining.  Fabulous cooks many of them have restaurants or sell food in tourism areas.



So they do better than Blacks in America how? has there ever been any Blacks in those countries that have become President?


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## IanC (Sep 20, 2011)

tank often (bluntly) brings up points that are germaine to the discussion but many politely ignore because of an ingrained aversion to 'blaming the victim'. but you cant solve the equation without looking at ALL the variables.


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## toxicmedia (Sep 20, 2011)

IanC said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > IanC said:
> ...


Brain characteristics???????.......there is no general genetic difference between the brains of any homo sapiens from a standpoint of itellectual inferiority or superiority.

Political correctness has nothing to do with accepted facts. Where did you hear that the brains of some races have quantitative or qualitative differences relating to intellectual ability?


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## Tank (Sep 20, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


> Where did you hear that the brains of some races have quantitative or qualitative differences relating to intellectual ability?


racial brain differences - Google Search


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## IanC (Sep 20, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


> IanC said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



inferiority/superiority are not valid terms here because they are value judgments. brains differ in size and shape racially. they also differ measurably in functioning. racial groups also differ genetically which of course is the cause of differing physical and behavioural traits. I thought you said you studied anthropology?


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## toxicmedia (Sep 20, 2011)

IanC said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > IanC said:
> ...


I'm interested in the credible study that proves that racially specific genetic adpatations cause certain racially specific and identifyable "behavioral" traits. 

I would also like to see any credible studies that coorelate cranial capacity and brain size with "functionability measurements" IN HOMO SAPIENS today. 

I'm not aware of any credible studies on the matter coroborating your assertions. And please, include studies done by credible acedemicians that also publish the studty data and criteria in great detail....no op eds please.

btw....just so you know.....in physical Anthropology courses...they do not focus on things like the differences between blacks and whites in the USA. 

And the reason I still suspect you of racism, is because a non racist would have asked the question "how can we rid the welfare system of chronic manipulators"....instead of "why do Blacks use welfare at 6 times the rate of Whites?"....there is a big tell in that question. There are more whites on welfare than any other demographic. Those very same inbred welfare collecting racist hicks that infest trailer parks all over the country would probably would take your side in this.....does that worry you?.....the KKK and skinheads would take your side too......I would really be bothered by that reality.


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## toxicmedia (Sep 20, 2011)

Tank said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Where did you hear that the brains of some races have quantitative or qualitative differences relating to intellectual ability?
> ...


Did you even read your own links?........American Digest?......you have got to be kidding......wiki?.......

Mr Tank.....you've brought a soup spoon to a knife fight.


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## Tank (Sep 20, 2011)

I bet you think blacks were enslaved because of their skin color


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## toxicmedia (Sep 20, 2011)

Tank said:


> I bet you think blacks were enslaved because of their skin color


In 1630......there were many races of indentured servants working in the colonies. White, black , creole, etc....by 1640...Dutch colonials in New York began setting all the white servats free when they earned their freedom. But the NY Dutch and some of the New England English decided to just keep the blacks and not give them the freedom they originally agreed upon. By 1640....the black slave industry was under way. By 1700, slavery for blacks had become a cornerstone of the building of America. 

Blacks were absolutely enslaved because of their skin color. 

Go home Tank


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## High_Gravity (Sep 20, 2011)

Tank said:


> I bet you think blacks were enslaved because of their skin color



Blacks were enslaved because they are good workers.


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## IanC (Sep 20, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


> IanC said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



forensic anthropology does a pretty good job of being able to distinguish racial types by physical characteristics.



> I would also like to see any credible studies that coorelate cranial capacity and brain size with "functionability measurements" IN HOMO SAPIENS today.



hmmm..... there are lots of articles that reference papers but I have found no one gives a crap about citations on this message board. in the past, I have done the footwork but people only want to believe what they already believe. I dont think I have ever seen anyone change their mind here, especially on racial issues.

as far as the title of my thread- if it isnt polarizing no one pays attention or responds. I really dont care what bigots of any colour think and if someone wants to label me as a racist in the sense that I believe different races have differing average tendencies on social traits that lead to disparate social outcomes then I guess I am a racist in one sense of the word. I am a classist as well because I think those that have the ability to take care of themselves and their families are more valuable to society. 

I am somewhat disappointed that you have retreated into the usual stance of devining the ulterior motives behind what I say rather than addressing my actual statements but I guess it is always easier to knock down strawmen.


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## IanC (Sep 20, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> > I bet you think blacks were enslaved because of their skin color
> ...



cotton was a much sought after commodity that grows best in the heat of the south. white people cant work as well in the heat because of natural selection. when the opportunity arose to buy slaves that could work in the heat it was taken. and unfortunately expanded upon because the demand was there. 

mind you if that set of market opportunities hadnt been exploited, a different scenario would have arisen. possibly more economically valuable and certainly with less long term repercussions. blacks didnt build the the US, businessmen did.


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## Zona (Sep 20, 2011)

Tank...represent!  You are a fine example of right wingers everywhere.


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## toxicmedia (Sep 20, 2011)

IanC said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > IanC said:
> ...


I'm not asking you to do footwork...for you to make the statements you are, you must surely already know exactly where the info to back them up is....frankly, and respectfully, I don't believe that the studies that would coroborate your assertion exist in any kind of credible form. They are your assertions as well...why is my asking you to prove them unreasonable? If you provide credible proof of what you assert...I'll weigh it fairly, and change my mind if it overturns my previous understanding. I'm not out to change anyone else's mind either, and empathize with your feeling of futility on that matterin most cases.

I didn't call you a racist....I simply pointed out that many racists would take your side in this dialog. You believe different races have differing average tendencies on social traits that lead to disparate social outcomes, and pointing that out by itself is quite benign, and you have been very good at not saying you believe that whites are superior to blacks. Do I think there are quite *possibly* racial resentments on your part that lead to your creation of this thread...sure I do, but that's unproven and undenied as of yet.

Motives almost always affect the outcomes of analyses on boards like these. I'm not trying to ruin all the fun, but can't you see how singlling out blacks regarding welfare especially when they are not the largest demographic collecting welfare leads me to the question....are you concerned enough about whites manipulating welfare to create a thread about that?


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## Tank (Sep 20, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


> Motives almost always affect the outcomes of analyses on boards like these. I'm not trying to ruin all the fun, but can't you see how singlling out blacks regarding welfare especially when they are not the largest demographic collecting welfare leads me to the question....are you concerned enough about whites manipulating welfare to create a thread about that?


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## Xchel (Sep 20, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> > ever been to Central America? A good portion of the folks there live in Garifuna communities and do fine self sustaining.  Fabulous cooks many of them have restaurants or sell food in tourism areas.
> ...



yes, Hugo Chavez is Mulatto, Pepe Lobo is also Mulatto.


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## IanC (Sep 20, 2011)

Tank said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Motives almost always affect the outcomes of analyses on boards like these. I'm not trying to ruin all the fun, but can't you see how singlling out blacks regarding welfare especially when they are not the largest demographic collecting welfare leads me to the question....are you concerned enough about whites manipulating welfare to create a thread about that?



the link in the OP has similar numbers to Tank's graph but more up to date.


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## toxicmedia (Sep 20, 2011)

IanC said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Tank said:
> ...


The heat was not a factor in the decision making of early planters when they decided to acquire blacks to work as slaves. Southern planters caught on to what New York Dutch and English planters were doing and bought black slaves between 1640-1700 when they started tobacco, rice, and cotton plantations. That crap you just wrote about selecting blacks because they could work in the heat sounds like something you made up. By the time slavery spread to the south....there were no other races of slaves.

Blacks performed 90% of the labor during the creation of the cotton empire. Sure...the white businessmen and planters of the south whipped them and fed them while they did it. 

Where did you hear all that stuff you just wrote.....you know what.....nevermind.....I'm sure there are no credible cites from you in our future.


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## toxicmedia (Sep 20, 2011)

Tank said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Motives almost always affect the outcomes of analyses on boards like these. I'm not trying to ruin all the fun, but can't you see how singlling out blacks regarding welfare especially when they are not the largest demographic collecting welfare leads me to the question....are you concerned enough about whites manipulating welfare to create a thread about that?


You are very simple.....aren't you.....


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## IanC (Sep 20, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


> IanC said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



there are credible studies on average brain size by race, brain size by race corrected for body size, skull shape and size by race, brain size and IQ correlation, grey matter and IQ correlation, genetic control of brain size, genetic control of grey matter, neuron speed and IQ, response time and IQ, decision time and IQ, recently genetic surveys for IQ involved genes, genetic tests that are 99 percent accurate in determining genetic cluster origin, specific alleles for brain developement not found in blacks (Lahn chose to change his field of study rather than lose his job on that one. PC much?), and of course the hundreds of millions of data points collected on IQ, SAT, AFQT, etc tests in the last hundred years that show a distinct difference in mental acquity by race, especially the gap between blacks and whites. 

there are credible sources that link IQ to social traits such as education, workforce participation and unwed child bearing. one of my favourites only looks at siblings that come from well off, stable, two parent families. the difference between the dull, normal and bright siblings was almost the same as the control group (the dulls did better, as would be expected with a competent supportive family).

there are also long term studies that correlate IQ with longevity, avoidance of injury, successful parenting and a host of other traits not typically associated with intelligence.


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## toxicmedia (Sep 20, 2011)

IanC said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > IanC said:
> ...


Okay........show the cites for these studies and let's look at how they support *your previous assertions*. 

I'm not going to do *your *footwork to prove *your* assertions.


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## IanC (Sep 20, 2011)

oops, I forgot to mention the positive correlation between low intelligence and welfare and social programs usage.


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## toxicmedia (Sep 20, 2011)

IanC said:


> oops, I forgot to mention the positive correlation between low intelligence and welfare and social programs usage.


Okay...let's get back to the basics...

This!.....is what a credible source looks like.

http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/sloth/lieberman-on-rushton.pdf


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## Tank (Sep 20, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...


It's better then you're incorrect story telling


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## toxicmedia (Sep 20, 2011)

Tank said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Tank said:
> ...


Uhhhh...boyeee...............

......start with this and work your way up Tank.



> Poverty By Race/Ethnicity
> Areas with a high incidence of poverty often reflect the low income of their racial/ethnic minorities. Nonmetro non-Hispanic Blacks had the highest incidence of poverty in 2010, at 32.9 percent (32.2 percent in 2009). The 2010 poverty rate for nonmetro Hispanics was 29.5 percent, which is 1.7 percentage points higher than in 2009. Both non-Hispanic Black and Hispanic poverty rates for 2010 were more than twice the rate for non-Hispanic Whites (13.1 percent), which was also the case in 2009. The high rate of poverty for Hispanics is noteworthy as their share of the nonmetro population has been increasing faster than other racial/ethnic groups, from less than 3 percent in 1990 to 7.4 percent in 2010. (See the section on high-poverty counties for more about poverty in an ethnic/sub regional context.)
> 
> http://www.ers.usda.gov/Briefing/incomepovertywelfare/povertydemographics.htm


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## IanC (Sep 20, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


> IanC said:
> 
> 
> > oops, I forgot to mention the positive correlation between low intelligence and welfare and social programs usage.
> ...



thanks for the pdf. did you read Harpending's comment at the end? very interesting.


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## Tank (Sep 20, 2011)

Of course blacks and Hispanics are poor on average, their the least intelligent on average.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 21, 2011)

Xchel said:


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I looked this up and Hugo's father is mulatto, hes basically a quarter black I guess. Couldn't find any anything that says Lobo is a mulatto though.


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## Xchel (Sep 21, 2011)

High Gravity, in many Central American countries, like in Puerto Rico or Cuba there are a lot of mulattos.  One of last years presidential candidates here was 100% black.  His name is Bernard Martinez and one of his agriculture ministers is Cesar Ham a black man. People here do not care that the candidate is black or whatever...they don't even care if it is a man or a woman. Our vice president is female.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 21, 2011)

Xchel said:


> High Gravity, in many Central American countries, like in Puerto Rico or Cuba there are a lot of mulattos.  One of last years presidential candidates here was 100% black.  His name is Bernard Martinez and one of his agriculture ministers is Cesar Ham a black man. People here do not care that the candidate is black or whatever...they don't even care if it is a man or a woman. Our vice president is female.



I was under the impression that Blacks face alot of racism in central American countries and Mexico especially, is this true?


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## Xchel (Sep 21, 2011)

Maybe in Mexico, I can't speak for them, but not really that way here.  We have a very diverse country in Honduras, probably one of the most diverse in Central America.  There just isn't racism in the way there is in the US...yes, there is discrimination but it is usually age discrimination more than it is based on other things.  In the work force there is a lot of problem with discrimination of people over 40.  I have never heard of racism on the level that there is in the US.  I watch whites, blacks, browns, reds here all interact and never hear some of the crap I did in the US..and there is no such thing as a white neighborhood or a black neighborhood.  To understand what I am getting at you perhaps would have to live here or even perhaps a visit might get someone a jist of the intrisic situation and how it is different in general from the US.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 21, 2011)

Xchel said:


> Maybe in Mexico, I can't speak for them, but not really that way here.  We have a very diverse country in Honduras, probably one of the most diverse in Central America.  There just isn't racism in the way there is in the US...yes, there is discrimination but it is usually age discrimination more than it is based on other things.  In the work force there is a lot of problem with discrimination of people over 40.  I have never heard of racism on the level that there is in the US.  I watch whites, blacks, browns, reds here all interact and never hear some of the crap I did in the US..and there is no such thing as a white neighborhood or a black neighborhood.  To understand what I am getting at you perhaps would have to live here or even perhaps a visit might get someone a jist of the intrisic situation and how it is different in general from the US.



I see, thanks for your insight.


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## Tank (Sep 21, 2011)

Here in America, the Hispanics hate the blacks.


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## toxicmedia (Sep 21, 2011)

IanC said:


> toxicmedia said:
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The following statement in the paper really cuts to the heart of my viewpoint.



> ace clarifies crucial areas that I did not emphasize
> and rightly points out that to test for differences in intelligence
> between groups (some say &#8220;races&#8221 they must
> have lived &#8220;*under conditions of social equality for several
> ...



Now that we have...albeit only from a legal perspective...begun the generations long process of correcting the social disadvantages blacks experience..

1. Has 40 years been enough?....apparently not based on the evidence you're providing

2. Should that have been enough, and do we have previous examples to draw from?

3. Have blacks actually gotten *complete* social equality since 1970?.....If not...could it take more than "several" generations to correct the social disadvatntages?

My guess is that people who are resentful or fearfull of blacks, will more likely think 40 years was enough. 

People who empathize with blacks will more likely entertain the idea that it might _not_ have been enough.

What are your thoughts?


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## Xchel (Sep 21, 2011)

Tank, see that is where you are confused...hispanics can be black, white, asian or native american even...Hispanic does not simply mean brown it is an ethnicity not a race.  There are black Hispanics from Mexico, Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Cuba and most every country in Central and South America.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 21, 2011)

Xchel said:


> Tank, see that is where you are confused...hispanics can be black, white, asian or native american even...Hispanic does not simply mean brown it is an ethnicity not a race.  There are black Hispanics from Mexico, Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Cuba and most every country in Central and South America.



Here in the US People tend to go by color generally, if they see a Black person from Cuba or Colombia they just assume he is Black, most Americans just think Hispanics are brown and Mexican.


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## Xchel (Sep 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> > Tank, see that is where you are confused...hispanics can be black, white, asian or native american even...Hispanic does not simply mean brown it is an ethnicity not a race.  There are black Hispanics from Mexico, Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Cuba and most every country in Central and South America.
> ...



and that is where they are wrong.  Brazil has the largest black population in the world. Most Dominicans and Panamanians are black...we have a huge black garifuna population here in Honduras as well.


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## Tank (Sep 21, 2011)

Xchel said:


> Tank, see that is where you are confused...hispanics can be black, white, asian or native american even...Hispanic does not simply mean brown it is an ethnicity not a race.  There are black Hispanics from Mexico, Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Cuba and most every country in Central and South America.


Here in America the brown people hate the black people.


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## IanC (Sep 21, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


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my thoughts?
first off I think as soon as the egg is fertilized there is a maximum level of intelligence that can be expressed. genetics
nurture then immediately starts its influence. conditions in the womb. birthing. disease. nutrition. accidents. parenting. environmental conditions. social interactions. etc. all of these can reduce the maximum potential but none can improve it.

obviously none of us reaches our full potential, there are just too many negative factors waiting to damage us.

the next thing to contemplate is whether nature or nurture is the most important. is it better to start with high potential and take more damage or vice versa? certainly it is better to start with high potential and take less damage than the reverse. we cant directly measure initial potential (yet). 
can we measure the other aspects? well sort of.

the law of large numbers make it statistically possible find average conditions for some things. 
...continued later, my phone is dying...


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## High_Gravity (Sep 21, 2011)

Xchel said:


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Alot of people don't know that, when I tell people there are Black people in Mexico and Venezuela they don't believe me. Most Americans just think its all brown people in Central and South America that look like Hugo Chavez.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 21, 2011)

IanC said:


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You think Black people are just born less intelligent than whites correct? so what about someone who is half black half white? are they smarter than the average black because of their white genes?


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## signelect (Sep 21, 2011)

uscitizen said:


> why do Blacks use welfare at 6 times the rate of Whites?
> Because whites make 20X as much money as blacks do?



I don't know your personally but I know many more blacks that are much much much more financially stable than you and me.


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## IanC (Sep 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


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actually yes I do think on average whites are born with a higher potential for intellectual achievement. Occam's Razor would certainly come to that conclusion due to the massive amounts of evidence that show whites do in fact intellectually achieve more than the average black. but that is the genetic side of the equation.

what about the nurture side? healthcare, nutrition and unhealth environments have been improved for blacks in the last 50 years with very little to show for it, at least intelectually. what is left over? parenting and socialization. is that the area that should be investigated? black children coming into kindergarten are already substantially behind. how can that be blamed on the outside world? culture is a strong influence but I am at a loss as to how anyone besides blacks can change it. one interesting artifact of several studies was that racially mixed children seemed to score higher if they had a white mother. there are potential confounding factors there but it may say something about parenting styles.


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## Flagwavrusa (Sep 21, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


> IanC said:
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I don't see how a legacy of social inequality would have anything much to do with the IQs of young black children today, as intelligence is largely an outcome of biological factors. As long as children receive adequate nutrition for the brain to develop normally, aren't raised in a traumatizing environment of severe abuse, and attend reasonably good schools, their IQ would not suffer even though their ancestors had been discriminated against.  There is no empirical evidence I am aware of that persons whose ancestors were victims of social inequality -  and most white people come from such a background as well - inherit a lower IQ as a result of how society treated their ancestors. The most persecuted people in European history are the Jews and they have the highest IQs.


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## toxicmedia (Sep 21, 2011)

Flagwavrusa said:


> toxicmedia said:
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Someone can have a genius IQ, and still perform poorly in school, and have trouble finding work. Intelligence has biological factors, but the manefestation of that IQ is hugely affected by environment, and especially poverty. Children exposed to poverty have always been exposed to higher than normal rates of malnutrition, discrimination, and less adequate education than their affluent counterparts.

You're putting too much into the IQ thing. It looks like we can find studies that say blacks and whites don't have depserate IQ's generally, and visa versa. 

When the Irish and Italians migrated to the US they experienced all the pitfalls of poverty many blacks still do, but the difference is that Irish and Italians retained their family structure, which has far reaching implications for the long term autonomy of the social structure of the African American communities. 

Where did you hear that Jewish people have higher IQ's?


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## Xchel (Sep 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


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and they would be really really wrong..there is every variation of people here that there is in the USA.  There are people that are blue eyed and blond haired*yes Honduran* and there are people black, there are asians and there are even turks here that are born in Honduras.  The majority is mestizo, but that isn't what everyone here looks like it is as ridiculous as thinking that everyone in the US is white...and I know what you are saying I get the same dumbfoundedness when I tell people that there are blacks that are native to Honduras.


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## Flagwavrusa (Sep 21, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


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IQ is not very much affected by the environment in the United States today. That's because almost every child in this country - including the impoverished -  grows up in an environment that is adequate to develope their IQ to its potential. Every individual has their own seperate story, and some individuals both black and white are inhibited in IQ development because of environmental things that happen to them, but the population statistics smooth out anomalies and accurately reflect the true IQ of the races. As IanC points out, the environmental circumstances have vastly improved for blacks over the past 50 years, but the IQ and standardized test score gap with whites remains. That would not be the case if environment was as important as you want to believe. 

I would recommend the Bell Curve to you, it talks about the evidence on racial IQ and also discusses high Jewish IQ.


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## Tank (Sep 21, 2011)




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## yidnar (Sep 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


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test studies have proven that while lighter colored blacks are more intelligent than darker skinned blacks they are still less intelligent than whites !!


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## yidnar (Sep 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


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anyone with eyes can tell that Hugo has a black heritage !! He is the typical thick lipped flat nosed Hispanic you see committing crimes on the news !While white Hispanics rarely break the law !!


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## IanC (Sep 21, 2011)

Flagwavrusa said:


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all good points. I have often pondered how effects from past generations are carried forward. except for preferential breeding in the slavery years, culture is the most likely method. and even then it is hard to imagine an actual physical or genetic mechanism.

one thing that supports harm from nurture/environment is that the correlation statistics for genetic heritabilty are smaller in children who grow up in extremely underprivileged/abusive situations. once the minimal conditions are met the stats are very strong. for all races.


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## Tank (Sep 21, 2011)

The more intelligence one has, the better the nurturing environment will be.


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## IanC (Sep 21, 2011)

Tank said:


>



the average IQ of a country is strongly indicative of its overall sucess. even more so if you factor in type of govt and natural resources.


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## IanC (Sep 21, 2011)

Tank said:


> The more intelligence one has, the better the nurturing environment will be.



I concur. smart families are more likely to build a safe stable and encouraging environment for themselves


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## Xchel (Sep 21, 2011)

Tank and Ian, you mean like Andrea Yates? hmm?


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## IanC (Sep 21, 2011)

Xchel said:


> Tank and Ian, you mean like Andrea Yates? hmm?



what does a long term mentally ill woman who killed her children after being hospitalized for stating she was going to kill her children have to do with this conversation? oh wait....was she white? really, what a feeble rebuttal.

I remember a study of school children with antisocial behaviour that showed that psychopathic behaviour was heritable. of course they didnt break down into racial categories which children were most likely to display unfeeling predatory behaviour but incarceration rates lead me to believe blacks may be over represented in this negative social trait as well.


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## Xchel (Sep 22, 2011)

IanC said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> > Tank and Ian, you mean like Andrea Yates? hmm?
> ...



um she was more than white...you made the claim that being white and smart and well to do made a person a better parent and family...that was my example..the woman is intelligent, and the man worked for NASA at the time..so he clearly was no dummy and they were well to do as they lived in Clear Lake and he made good money.  She homeschooled her children.  So it wasn't quite the feeble rebuttal you thought it was. Yet, with all that crap you claim about a better parent because of white, upper middle class, smart stuff..and here we have this woman who murdered her children and was mentally ill...yep, white, black whatever there is no more intelligent race as you seem to want to claim.


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## true_american (Sep 22, 2011)

When looking at the superior intelligence of whites over blacks we do not need to look much further than a highly acclaimed Nobel Prize winner.  This article did not receive much recognition in the United States because of its highly controversial findings however the results are public record. This article without a doubt lays the foundation and fills in the gaps surrounding the superiority of white culture/society. Please read timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2677098.ece Black people 'less intelligent' scientist claims - Times Online[/url] .

I would like to ask that everyone consider this idea. Close your eyes and think of a man or woman who is the epitome of what it is to be business professional, well respected, presentable, and maybe even someone that you would ask advice from. Bellamy ask you this. Does this person say "can you _breaf_" or do they say "can you breathe"? Do they say "may I ask you a question" or is it "may I ax you a question"? Do they say "fo sho" or do they say "for sure"? Is this person clean, well dressed (maybe wearing a suit), and respectful of those around him or do you have some other type of image in your mind?

For those of you who suggest that blacks and whites can only be compared on an even playing field the following statistics may be alarming to you. The US Department of Education conducted the study to track the performance and retention of black and white students who enrolled in four-year degree programs. The statistics revealed that only 45% of the black males actually graduated with a degree and 55% of black women graduated with a degree. Conversely, 83% of white women graduated and 89% of white men graduated. These numbers are exclusive of athletes, students who left for medical reasons or other personal issues, and those who withdrew for financial reasons.

The argument that today's black men and women are being held back by anyone but themselves is absolutely absurd. Between the alarming outreach effect of affirmative action and the excess of $300 million per year in black only scholarships for college more than provides opportunities for today's black children to succeed.

There is a very substantial reason why black actors, politicians, and news anchors all learned to speak properly. Some may even call it learning to speak white. But as I mentioned above there is a reason for this and that reason is that people don't want to listen to some person speaking grammatically incorrect and say words in ways that most people would never dream of.


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## Douger (Sep 22, 2011)

Because they're smarter than whitey.Hey. If all you have to do is ware your pants below your ass, get a gold toof and fill out a couple of forms for free money..............


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## High_Gravity (Sep 22, 2011)

Douger said:


> Because they're smarter than whitey.Hey. If all you have to do is ware your pants below your ass, get a gold toof and fill out a couple of forms for free money..............



Yes because Blacks are the only ones that are doing that, seriously go fuck yourself Douger.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 22, 2011)

yidnar said:


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I thought you said you liked Hispanics.


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## yidnar (Sep 22, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> yidnar said:
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I like white Hispanics !!not the mongrels you see on Cops !!


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## yidnar (Sep 22, 2011)

Blacks need their own schools where teachers can give them special attention and education to help them learn !!


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## Douger (Sep 22, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Douger said:
> 
> 
> > Because they're smarter than whitey.Hey. If all you have to do is ware your pants below your ass, get a gold toof and fill out a couple of forms for free money..............
> ...


I once owned a couple of liquor stores ( likka sto) in Floridastan. I've seen reality.
What was great was getting first class t-bones and lobster tails for a couple of cheap bottles of nodAhead. $40 worth of food for $15 of nAh
If you're truly black you'll know( B nowin) what that is (B).


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## High_Gravity (Sep 22, 2011)

Douger said:


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## Xchel (Sep 22, 2011)

yidnar said:


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Spaniards are not Hispanic Yidnar...Hispanics are either mestizo, black or Asian...there are some who have whiter skin but there are very few castillian folks in Latin America...they got their butts kicked over 100 years ago and shipped back to Spain.  I have to wonder what a white person is other than a mongrel...can you show me anyone in the US that is pure? I doubt it....people are not white they are caucasion and usually what caucasion is is a mongrel group I hate to tell you that..but if a person is Scots Irish, German, French and say a few drops of Native American..what is he other than a mongrel?


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## yidnar (Sep 22, 2011)

Xchel said:


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have you ever been to Spain ?? I have and they are white Europeans !! and there are White hispanics there just aren't enough to make a difference to help south America keep up with the rest of the civilized white countries !!


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## High_Gravity (Sep 22, 2011)

yidnar said:


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People are from Spain are not Hispanics you fuckin idiot.


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## yidnar (Sep 22, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


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no but hispanics a have spanish descent !!


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## High_Gravity (Sep 22, 2011)

yidnar said:


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Hispanics a have spanish descent? what does that even mean you fuckin clown?


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## Xchel (Sep 22, 2011)

he doesn't know..I don't think he realizes that means they are mestizo just like Hugo Chavez..that they can be black mixed with Castillian, black, Asian, asian mixed with castillian, Native American mixed with Castillian, etc...he clearly hasn't visited Latin America


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## Xchel (Sep 22, 2011)

yidnar said:


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people in Spain are not Hispanic...call them that and see the response you get..they are Castillian.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 22, 2011)

Xchel said:


> he doesn't know..I don't think he realizes that means they are mestizo just like Hugo Chavez..that they can be black mixed with Castillian, black, Asian, asian mixed with castillian, Native American mixed with Castillian, etc...he clearly hasn't visited Latin America



Yes people in Latin America can be a mix of some many things Indian, white, Meztizo, Black etc. and there are also people from countries like Italy and Lebanon who move there, Argentina has a large population of Italian immigrants. Yidnar knows fuck all about the people in those countries.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 22, 2011)

Xchel said:


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No doubt people from Spain don't like to be called Hispanic at all or Latino.


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## Xchel (Sep 22, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


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yep, probably because they aren't Hispanic they are European and Hispanic or Latino is usually reserved for those who are from Latin America originally.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 22, 2011)

Xchel said:


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Alot of people in the US don't get it, a co worker of mine is from Spain and when he was speaking Spanish some other co workers asked him what part of Mexico he was from.


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## Xchel (Sep 22, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


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doh...I would have gotten really silent and asked them if they really thought all Spanish speaking folks were from Mexico and that they might want to brush up on their Spanish speaking accents some...Spaniards sound NOTHING like Mexicans when they speak Spanish...good lord...same thing can be said about Hondurans and Mexicans neither speak with accents even close to one another.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 22, 2011)

Xchel said:


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Where I live the majority of the people who speak Spanish are illegals from Mexico, and there is a small Puerto Rican population here as well. Hispanic immigrants have only started coming here over the past 20 years or so so people are still adjusting to them, I live in Birmingham Alabama so it is predominantly white and Black. My girlfriend is from California and she is half Bolivian half Mexican, when we went to a Chinese restaurant the waitress assumed she didn't know English and started speaking to her in Spanish, because that Chinese restaurant is a favorite for alot of Mexicans who do not speak a word of English, she gets asked if she needs a translator at Doctors appointments all the time too.


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## IanC (Sep 22, 2011)

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you dont understand my position. I am FOR judging individuals by their qualities. I am FOR affirmative action in a realistic fashion that takes an individuals accomplishments into account rather than just being a racial quota. 

I am AGAINST using group achievement as proof of racism or unfair treatment. imagine this scenario- compare a group of a thousand IQ100 blacks with a thousand IQ85 whites. which group would have higher education, better jobs, more stable families etc? by any metric the blacks would be doing better. even more skewed would be taking the top 1/6 of all blacks (IQ 100+) with the bottom 1/6 of whites (IQ 85-). obviously intelligence has a lot to do with success in our technology based society. blacks and white matched for similar intelligence have similar life paths. THAT is a reasonable comparison to judge whether racism and unfair treatment are still holding blacks down.


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## Xchel (Sep 22, 2011)

so then why would you approve of Tank's post..tank believes that a group as a collective whole is what the individual is in reality.


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## Tank (Sep 22, 2011)

When it comes to racial groups, I believe in averages:


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## Sallow (Sep 22, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


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Nope.

You'll also find that many in countries like Brazil and Portugal do not identify with "Hispanic" or "Latino".


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## toxicmedia (Sep 22, 2011)

IanC said:


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I'm still stuck on something....let's say blacks have lower IQ's than whites, jews, and asians. I still haven't been exposed to any compelling data that would prove this...but let's, for the sake of argument, assume it's the case...

Does that mean you think a low IQ's makes it more likely to be on welfare? I mean...couldn't it be that the differing brain charateristics are there...but not be the cause of dissproportianate wefare collection stats?

Did I miss something?.....I'm frankly kind of unnerved that I see so many posters on this thread seeming comfortable with the idea that blacks are genetically and culturally inferior...and that's why they collect wefare in greater percentages, which seems like a bit of an over-reach to me. And!!....everyone who thinks that is a conservative or a conservative leaning independent!  

And even if that were true...what good is it to know it?....what good is it to say it?.....if not only to vent racial resentments.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 22, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


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I also don't see how low IQ means you will be on welfare, there are alot of white people on welfare and assistance as well, this would mean whites and blacks have almost the same IQ.


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## toxicmedia (Sep 22, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


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IMHO.....This type of thing is all connected to the Christian Republican agenda in this country. Conservative media is trying to undo the social progess made since 1960. They're trying to make pollution okay again, racism okay again, monotheism okay again, women obeying their husbands again (like Michelle Bachmann does)....and other things. It all gives me the creeps.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 22, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


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My father is Black and he is an eletrical engineer, I believe people are born the same no matter what color, to say someone is smarter because of color is stupid and a lie.


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## NoNukes (Sep 22, 2011)

From what I have read, there are more whites on welfare than blacks.


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## Tank (Sep 22, 2011)

NoNukes said:


> From what I have read, there are more whites on welfare than blacks.


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## Tank (Sep 22, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


> And even if that were true...what good is it to know it?....what good is it to say it?.....if not only to vent racial resentments.


You don't want to know the truth?


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## yidnar (Sep 22, 2011)

Xchel said:


> he doesn't know..I don't think he realizes that means they are mestizo just like Hugo Chavez..that they can be black mixed with Castillian, black, Asian, asian mixed with castillian, Native American mixed with Castillian, etc...he clearly hasn't visited Latin America


and the lighter skinned intelligent ones that do not commit crimes are from European descent !!And why the hell would I want to visit a third world shit hole in the first place ??


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## yidnar (Sep 22, 2011)

Xchel said:


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where in the hell did I post that the Spanish are Hispanic ??....I said Hispanics have Spanish descent !!


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## AquaAthena (Sep 22, 2011)

IanC said:


> Characteristics and Financial Circumstances - FY 2008
> 
> actually it is more than 6 times but that is nitpicking. why are blacks so vulnerable to being incapable of taking care of themselves? the numbers for using govt handout programs are even more skewed. why do so many blacks settle for a marginal parasitic lifestyle?
> 
> ...



Our elected officials are the reason. 

I think welfare recipients are hard-pressed to give up free rent, food, healthcare, computers, cell phones with free minutes and more---all to take a minimum wage job, and pay taxes, only to come out with less than their entitlements. A very small percentage of people have the will and determination to climb out of that deep hole we have buried them in, with our so-called, generosity.....


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## Xchel (Sep 22, 2011)

yidnar said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> > he doesn't know..I don't think he realizes that means they are mestizo just like Hugo Chavez..that they can be black mixed with Castillian, black, Asian, asian mixed with castillian, Native American mixed with Castillian, etc...he clearly hasn't visited Latin America
> ...



chances are you do not understand what the word third world means so why should you be throwing it around so loosely? Don't speak about places you don't know anything about...specially considering some of those places you classify as third world are in better shape than many parts of the US.


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## NoNukes (Sep 23, 2011)

Tank said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> > From what I have read, there are more whites on welfare than blacks.



*This change in the numbers shows how much harder the recession is hitting Black people.*


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## Tank (Sep 23, 2011)

NoNukes,

The pie chart is from 2006, well before the recession.

Can you imagine what it would look like today?


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## JMadison (Sep 23, 2011)

deregulateTHIS said:


> Does this apply to every state in the US? There are plenty of Whites in Texas who are on welfare.


Did you read the thread title before posting? Do you know what rate means?


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## eots (Sep 23, 2011)

IanC said:


> Characteristics and Financial Circumstances - FY 2008
> 
> actually it is more than 6 times but that is nitpicking. why are blacks so vulnerable to being incapable of taking care of themselves? the numbers for using govt handout programs are even more skewed. why do so many blacks settle for a marginal parasitic lifestyle?
> 
> ...



IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT ABOUT 100% of them are descendent of slaves and direct descendent of those that had to struggle for there basic human rights until very recently and it takes generations to heal such wounds


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## eots (Sep 23, 2011)

Ernie S. said:


> Dayum! Facts are just so.... racist.



or classiest....wanna bet that facts are children of millionaires are 6 times more likely to become millionaires than than those with low income parents


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## High_Gravity (Sep 23, 2011)

eots said:


> IanC said:
> 
> 
> > Characteristics and Financial Circumstances - FY 2008
> ...



You pretty much nailed it.


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## Douger (Sep 23, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > IanC said:
> ...


So murka gets to put up with primate behavior for ??????? Another 50 years ?


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## High_Gravity (Sep 23, 2011)

Douger said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


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## yidnar (Sep 23, 2011)

what about Chinese people !! they have been suppressed for generations also !! and there culture is extremely different than America's !! and yet within 1 generation they can assimilate and become productive achievers !! no it is not because of the past that blacks have problems .....it is a genetic trait that only this simian species suffers from !!


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## High_Gravity (Sep 23, 2011)

yidnar said:


> what about Chinese people !! they have been suppressed for generations also !! and there culture is extremely different than America's !! and yet within 1 generation they can assimilate and become productive achievers !! no it is not because of the past that blacks have problems .....it is a genetic trait that only this simian species suffers from !!



The Chinese were taken away from their lands and enslaved for hundreds of years and stripped of their language and culture? when did that happen shit for brains?


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## Xchel (Sep 23, 2011)

yidnar said:


> what about Chinese people !! they have been suppressed for generations also !! and there culture is extremely different than America's !! and yet within 1 generation they can assimilate and become productive achievers !! no it is not because of the past that blacks have problems .....it is a genetic trait that only this simian species suffers from !!



actually Chinese have a great deal of difficulty assimilating into the culture of the US...in fact the Chinese were so unaccepted because of their lack of assimiliation that the Chinese Exclusion Act came about..and that was over 100 years ago.  So they didn't appear on the scene suddenly a year ago.


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## IanC (Sep 23, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > IanC said:
> ...



well it might mean that white and black welfare recipients both have low intelligence.

a thought experiment. if you randomly pick a thousand blacks with IQ100 and compare them to a thousand whites with IQ85, which group would have more education, better jobs, more stable families, more success overall? obviously it would be the black group. you would be comparing groups in the top one sixth of blacks to the bottom one sixth of whites.

if you compare blacks and whites of equal IQ you find they have similar life paths. that is the realistic way of finding out whether racism and unfair opportunity are major hinderences to the progress of blacks. this has been done and it finds black women favoured to a small degree and black men disfavoured to a small degree. this is likely a result of socialization where black women fit into the dominant culture more easily.


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## José (Sep 23, 2011)

> Originally posted by *Yidnar*
> and the lighter skinned intelligent ones that do not commit crimes are from European descent !!And why the hell would I want to visit a third world shit hole in the first place ??



OK Yidnar...

Here's the kind of hispanics that wouldn't turn America into a third world "shithole".


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## High_Gravity (Sep 23, 2011)

José;4180040 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *Yidnar*
> > and the lighter skinned intelligent ones that do not commit crimes are from European descent !!And why the hell would I want to visit a third world shit hole in the first place ??
> 
> 
> ...


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## José (Sep 23, 2011)

Yidnar... 

I have a question for you.

Do you think America should give automatic american citizenship to those white hispanics just like the state of Israel gives automatic israeli citizenship to Jews from all over the world?

Or should the US put them on the first plane and send them back to Latin America?


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## toxicmedia (Sep 23, 2011)

yidnar said:


> what about Chinese people !! they have been suppressed for generations also !! and there culture is extremely different than America's !! and yet within 1 generation they can assimilate and become productive achievers !! no it is not because of the past that blacks have problems .....it is a genetic trait that only this simian species suffers from !!


You're a huge reeeetard.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 23, 2011)

José;4180055 said:
			
		

> Yidnar...
> 
> I have a question for you.
> 
> ...



He'll probably say yes, as long as they are 100% white and not Black or Mestizo.


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## toxicmedia (Sep 23, 2011)

IanC said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...


Let me try a different tact.....

Even if you proved that blacks are intellectually challenged compared to other demographics....what will YOU do with that?.......I hope you know that most blacks I know would not be interested in getting help with that from you, even if they did have a lower IQ or cranial capacity.

The point here is that chronic manipulation of welfare is what needs to stop. Does knowing that blacks have lower IQ's on the average give you any kind of information that would help you find a solution to the desparity? 

btw.....I'm not convinced the these averages you've cites indicate that the cranial capacity or the IQ is significantly lower enough to impare development or bahavior. 

I'm still convinced the things you're trying to blame of inferiority are simply caused by a unique form of discrimination, and poverty.


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## IanC (Sep 23, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


> IanC said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
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a different tack? OK, I'm a Canadian. we are proud of being multicultural but we have the same problem incorporating blacks as the US does. do you think we are as deeply racist as Americans? Toronto has the biggest group of blacks and they had to drop zero tolerance in their schools because of the vastly disproportional discipline problem. they were even going to have all black schools until the optics proved insurmountable. if we cant find a successful solution, who can?

does it matter what the proportion of nature/nurture is? are we capable of changing either? does it help or hinder blacks to have a built in, all encompassing excuse for any failure? I think white trailer trash need to be supported as well as ghetto blacks. but no one makes excuses for low class whites, should we be so quick to excuse low class blacks? does taking the role of victim help or hinder. would incentives for achievement work better than just charity? its a difficult question but what we are doing isnt producing the results we would wish for.


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## José (Sep 23, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> José;4180055 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No shit, Sherlock.

I have a strange feeling that I've just wasted 2 precious minutes of my life asking the obvious


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## Flagwavrusa (Sep 23, 2011)

eots said:


> IanC said:
> 
> 
> > Characteristics and Financial Circumstances - FY 2008
> ...



Liberia was populated by American slaves as part of a back to Africa movement starting in the 1820s. THat's almost 200 years of self rule and you can go on to Youtube if you want to see what a country with a $250 per capita GDP looks like. Hint: the capital Monrovia lacks a sewer system and residents don't use the local beachfront for sunbathing.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 23, 2011)

Flagwavrusa said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > IanC said:
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I don't think anyone can deny Liberia is a shit hole, American Blacks were not the only people in that country however.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 23, 2011)

Also I should add I don't think its a given that a people with high intelligence will run a good successful country with a high standard of living, for example you can look at India and Vietnam, both the Indians and Vietnamese are known to be an intelligent people but large pockets of those countries are uninhabitable shit holes.


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## Flagwavrusa (Sep 23, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Also I should add I don't think its a given that a people with high intelligence will run a good successful country with a high standard of living, for example you can look at India and Vietnam, both the Indians and Vietnamese are known to be an intelligent people but large pockets of those countries are uninhabitable shit holes.



India has less than 85 IQ average, so that explains the slums in places like Bombay and New Delhi. 

I can't think of any countries with an IQ average around the hundred range or more where you find conditions like that in in India and Sub Saharan Africa. Certainly there are no countries like that in Europe.

The only exceptions would be economies hobbled by Communism like Veitnam and North Korea. But even a country  with a high IQ population can't help but be impoverished under a controlled economy. Communism just doesnt work.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 23, 2011)

Flagwavrusa said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Also I should add I don't think its a given that a people with high intelligence will run a good successful country with a high standard of living, for example you can look at India and Vietnam, both the Indians and Vietnamese are known to be an intelligent people but large pockets of those countries are uninhabitable shit holes.
> ...



Hmm really? Indians for the most are pretty intelligent, even the guys I met in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia that were picking up trash on the street could speak at least 3 languages including Arabic and English. As far as Europe you might want to look at countries in the eastern bloc, from what I hear Ukraine, Albania and Uzbekistan are pretty shitty.


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## toxicmedia (Sep 23, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Flagwavrusa said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


Let's see.......

....whaddya say we find a certain demographic that is easy identifyable by skin color, and kidnap them, then bring them to the USA to be slaves. Let's whip them, deny them education, work them inhumanly, then free them, or more apropriatly abandon them, then harrass, lynch, and unimaginablly discriminate againt them.......then send them back to the country where they were kidnapped. What kind of mental midget thinks those people would have gained something they can use positively in thier former country from the experience?

Sierra Leon, Liberia....that whole region is a shit hole. And it's not that way because blacks have a lower IQ or cranial capacity than whites in the US. 

The stupidity from the more racist elements on this thread is astounding and freightening


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## High_Gravity (Sep 23, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Flagwavrusa said:
> ...



I agree 100%.


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## toxicmedia (Sep 23, 2011)

IanC said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > IanC said:
> ...


First of all....I've excused nobody for abusing welfare. In fact...I have a hard time finding anyone, besides welfare abusers themselves, who "excuses" welfare fraud and abuse. They only people I see who are embracing the role of victim these days are conservatives who think they are doing black folks a favor by not calling them the "N" word or not deporting them back to Africa.

*We* = you and other people who are resentful towards blacks, yet are not in touch enough with your motives, or just plain too dishonest enough to admit it. And 

"We"...or you.....should not have an opinion about what can be done about anything in the African American community. Even if what you "come up with" would work...I don't blame blacks one bit for telling you to go fly a kite. Nobody likes to feel berated and dissapproved of. 

Let me try to clarify.....

Everyone has racist tendencies. I myself!......was in a grocery store a few years ago, and I was pushing the cart while my wife tossed groceries into the cart while babbling and wandering aimlessly. At one point I got a few feet away from the cart, and her purse. People passed by and I wasn't really even noticing them, then a black couple came walking by....I pulled the cart closer because only then did I remember I'd abandoned my wife's purse in the cart. 

I'd like to think of myself as completely non bigoted....but I had to ask myself....why did I pull the cart coser only for the black couple?

It is things like this, and much worse, that shape the black experience in America and probably Canada too. How many times do you have to get treated like this before you say "fuck those guys", and then what if those guys approach you and say "we want to solve a problem, and that problem is you!"?

These are not excuses.....just something white people in Canada and the US cannot imagine. I know what it's like....when I stayed in Iran...I felt that stink eye from everyone you pass on the street, or interview for a job, and so on.

You should forget about blacks on welfare....you'll never be able to do something about it, and you shouldn't be trying, because your motives are going to be suspect. Like I said...someone without racial resentments would have created a thread that addresses welfare without addressing race...


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## Flagwavrusa (Sep 23, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Flagwavrusa said:
> ...



50 years ago Africa was more economically developed than Asia, because of colonialism. Today Asia is an economic powerhouse and Africa remains the most underdeveloped area of the world with no hope in sight. Both continents were formerly under colonial rule, both have ample natural resources, so what can explain the different outcomes during the past half century? I don't think it's a coincidence that Asians register considerably higher IQ. 

Frankly, given the empirically verified link between IQ and economic achievement, I think you are very hard pressed to come up with a better explanation to account for  Liberia and the rest of SSA. Saying it's because their ancestors 8 generations removed endured hardship really doesn't hold water. If that could really have an effect on IQ, then Europeans should have higher IQs than Asians, in light of their more advantaged economic history.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 23, 2011)

Flagwavrusa said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



Not all of Asia is doing well, quite a few of those countries are shit holes not much better than Africa regardless of the intelligence of the people there.


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## IanC (Sep 23, 2011)

toxicmedia said:


> IanC said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



Im just trying to find some common ground for us to discuss. you have dismossed intelligence out of hand although I believe it to be the largest factor involved and it easily explains most of any disparities.

you say it is a carry over of slavery and continuing racism. how do injuries carry over to the present? is it genetic, cultural, what? can we ameliorate thos supposed injuries? is there some mechanism that we can disrupt and reset the situation like rebooting a computer? do you think the disparities are there because we notice the disparities? humans are evolved to notice their surroundings, as long as blacks are a mismatch to societal norms it will be noticed and acted upon. is it hopeless? how do we explain away the lower abilities of young black children entering kindergarten?  are parents or society to blame? how much should whites today be held responsible for injuries done in the past. how much should uninjured blacks be given today for past injuries done to people that may not even be their ancestors? how much is owed to the Jews for unfair treatment last century? who should pay? do they have a right of return for all their property confiscated at the time of Israel's formation? who would get it? I cant see how we can settle the score for past wrongs, especially by renumeration. we have tried racial quotas and they cause as many problems as they solve. I think we should go out of our way to help blacks who show promise and effort, more because there are fewer of them proportionally than because they are 'owed' anything. it helps society to reduce disparities but society didnt cause them, mother nature did.


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## IanC (Sep 23, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Flagwavrusa said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



true. it is probably unfair to compare other countries to white western democracies. or even white western democracies of 100, 200 years ago to today. thankfully they have been around to show the way.


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## Tank (Sep 23, 2011)

Africans in America are living in a world they could have never dreamed of on their own.


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