# Do you think U.S should donate food to N.Korea?



## bluesky79 (Jan 10, 2012)

I think food aid to North Korea must be considered carefully.

North Korea's leader Kim Jong-Un requested food aid to the United States for the first time since he came to power.

At the end of December, which was during the mourning period for the death of Kim Jong-Il, North Korea requested for more food aid, with more grains than other nutritional supplements. This was done to change what the US did a year before, to aid North Korea with powdered milk and biscuits for the elderly and children.

But this food aid was done to improve the general atmosphere of the International Summit to tackle North Korea's nuclear weapons. Since this was nutritional aid, instead of food aid, the US declined the request.

If the US agreed to change their aid plan, North Korea must have used the new source of food for their new government. This was a wise move for the US.

North Korea is now walking a rougher path than ever after Kim Jong-Il's death. Therefore the US and the rest of the international community needs to realize that food aid only helps preserve the dictatorship in North Korea. They should approach with a carrot and a stick in order to crack down on North Korea.


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## Ancient lion (Jan 10, 2012)

It goes without asking !


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## midcan5 (Jan 10, 2012)

Yes, absolutely, for it is only the people who suffer while power uses anything for propaganda. One day North Korea will change as all nations change.


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## editec (Jan 10, 2012)

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Do you think U.S should donate food to N.Korea?

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No.

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## Sallow (Jan 10, 2012)

Yes.


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## Swagger (Jan 10, 2012)

It's not really my place to say. But why on earth can't they approach China for additional food aid?


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## High_Gravity (Jan 10, 2012)

No, I don't see why we are giving food and aid to a country that is hostile towards the US, the North Koreans are brain washed to think of Americans as their enemies.


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## Sirkarl101 (Jan 10, 2012)

No way.


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## Swagger (Jan 10, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> No, I don't see why we are giving food and aid to a country that is hostile towards the US, the North Koreans are brain washed to think of Americans as their enemies.



Although I'm told it's been scaled back, you [America] still send financial and material aid to Pakistan, which harbours undeniable hostility towards its American benefactor. They fit the same criteria of antipathy towards the US as N. Korea.


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## Sallow (Jan 10, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> No, I don't see why we are giving food and aid to a country that is hostile towards the US, the North Koreans are brain washed to think of Americans as their enemies.



But it's propaganda that comes with a kernel of truth. While America was in fact attacked by North Korea..the response was apeshit. The US pummeled North Korea without mercy. Some 4 million Koreans died in that war. Heck..Macarthur wanted to nuke the place. It wasn't until the Chinese invaded and pushed back..that hostilities ceased. Yeah..they are brain washed..and yeah..there are some reasons to hate America for North Koreans.


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## High_Gravity (Jan 10, 2012)

Swagger said:


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I know, and I don't want money going to them either.


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## High_Gravity (Jan 10, 2012)

Sallow said:


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I personally wish the Chinese never got involved, that way the US could have united Korea decades ago and our Troops wouldn't even be there anymore. Nevertheless, we have no business sending food to a country that basically hates us and is technically in a stage of war against the US, we should be trying to bring this regime down not help it survive, if the North Koreans need food for their people, maybe they should stop fucking wasting all their money on their Military and nuclear weapons and actually start working with the international community, not against them. If a rogue regime like North Korea needs help that help needs to come with strings, it shouldn't be unconditional.


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## Swagger (Jan 10, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


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Neither do I. In fact, I'd honestly prefer it if the US, UK and anyone else tied-up in that mullah infested dump never involved themselves in any other medieval muslim nation, ever. Let them sort themselves out for once.



Sallow said:


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Aww. Boo hoo. MacArthur should've decimated the N. Korean military and leadership when he had the chance. Instead, all the West was left with was a whole heap of anxiety for the next half a century over whether or not Pyongyang would start lobbing ICBMs at everyone over spilt milk.


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## Sallow (Jan 10, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


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Agree with that part.

North Korea needs something in the way of being shown a better way. But that's not to say they need to be invaded.


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## High_Gravity (Jan 10, 2012)

Swagger said:


> *Aww. Boo hoo. MacArthur should've decimated the N. Korean military and leadership when he had the chance. *Instead, all the West was left with was a whole heap of anxiety for the next half a century over whether or not Pyongyang would start lobbing ICBMs at everyone over spilt milk.



I agree with that 100%.


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## Swagger (Jan 10, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


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100% endorsed.


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## Sallow (Jan 10, 2012)

Swagger said:


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Russia would have started lobbing ICBMs. That's a fact. And no country in it's right mind was going to put up with another country that uses nukes to end wars.


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## High_Gravity (Jan 10, 2012)

Sallow said:


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I'm not saying we need to invade them, however we shouldn't be helping them out with food aid and such when the regime still acts hostile working on nuclear weapons and still attacks its neighbor South Korea, like those fishermen that got shelled and killed by the North a few years back, its madness at this point to continue to give them aid when they act like this.


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## Swagger (Jan 10, 2012)

Sallow said:


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Really? As far as I can tell the USSR just wanted America to keep its nose out of their political and territorial interests. They weren't trying to aggressively assert their military might because they'd already proved themselves on countless occasions. N. Korea, on the the other hand, has been needlessly sabre rattling for decades, and in turn have spread widespread fear around the globe. I mean, at least NATO knew of Russia's intentions, and how to effectively counter them where necessary.


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## OldUSAFSniper (Jan 10, 2012)

Sallow, at the time of the Korean war, 1951 to 1953, no one had ICBM's.  The United States had the most nuclear devices and were just developing Hydrogen weapons.  Russia had the nuke (tested in 1948), however the only delivery system they had were the bombers that were patterned after the B-29.  Those bombers were copied piece-by-piece from B-29's damaged over Japan that took emergency landings in Russia.  They were taken apart, copied and then a replica was manufactured in Russia.  They knew about the US having a nuke and were secretly developing one themselves from information sent to them from inside the Manhattan project.  Big Joe Stalin wasn't dumb.  He knew that the 'west' was going to be his nemesis after the war because of eastern Europe so he needed an ace in the hole.  If McArthur had used nukes during the Korean War, would Stalin have retaliated?  He would have tried for sure.

As for North Korea, the food that we send is never identified as American foreign aid.  So the question boils down to:  Do we want to feed the North Koreans for just the sake of humanity, because we will never get the credit?  Do you let hundreds of thousands, possibly millions die of starvation because of the complete and utter EVIL that rules them?  AND we know from experience that North Korea will never agree to anything simply based upon whether they get food from us or not.  So the 'gift' would be just for our benefit.

We KNOW who we are.  We KNOW what is in our heart.  We KNOW that we want nothing but good things for the Korean people and I don't think recognition is part of that.  It would be nice, but it ain't gonna happen.  If you can stand by and watch a man starve to death, then you have your answer.  I cannot... YES, feed them.


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## Sallow (Jan 10, 2012)

Swagger said:


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Are you really this obtuse in real life?

North Korea was the responsibility of the Soviets in the first place. They were arming them initially. They were taken aback by Kim's "independence" and knocked on their heels by the invasion. But there is basically no doubt that if ICBMs starting flying around..they would have joined in.


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## Sallow (Jan 10, 2012)

OldUSAFSniper said:


> Sallow, at the time of the Korean war, 1951 to 1953, no one had ICBM's.  The United States had the most nuclear devices and were just developing Hydrogen weapons.  Russia had the nuke (tested in 1948), however the only delivery system they had were the bombers that were patterned after the B-29.  Those bombers were copied piece-by-piece from B-29's damaged over Japan that took emergency landings in Russia.  They were taken apart, copied and then a replica was manufactured in Russia.  They knew about the US having a nuke and were secretly developing one themselves from information sent to them from inside the Manhattan project.  Big Joe Stalin wasn't dumb.  He knew that the 'west' was going to be his nemesis after the war because of eastern Europe so he needed an ace in the hole.  If McArthur had used nukes during the Korean War, would Stalin have retaliated?  He would have tried for sure.
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> As for North Korea, the food that we send is never identified as American foreign aid.  So the question boils down to:  Do we want to feed the North Koreans for just the sake of humanity, because we will never get the credit?  Do you let hundreds of thousands, possibly millions die of starvation because of the complete and utter EVIL that rules them?  AND we know from experience that North Korea will never agree to anything simply based upon whether they get food from us or not.  So the 'gift' would be just for our benefit.
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> We KNOW who we are.  We KNOW what is in our heart.  We KNOW that we want nothing but good things for the Korean people and I don't think recognition is part of that.  It would be nice, but it ain't gonna happen.  If you can stand by and watch a man starve to death, then you have your answer.  I cannot... YES, feed them.



Okay..well there would have been nukes..for everyone. Not good.


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## Swagger (Jan 10, 2012)

Sallow said:


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Sometimes. 

But no, I do see where you're coming from. Although I'm aware of the formal relationship that existed between Moscow and Pyongyang (and that they'd more than likely side with N. Korea if they were still close allies), something tells me that the Russians would've been more measured in their projection of power if they were still under the communist regime today, or in the past, for that matter. And that they'd be strong-arming N. Korea to reign in their attitude. 

In any case, I agree with High_Gravity. In the sense that if the US were ever to enter into cordial relations leading up to aid relief, there would have to be conditions that are rigidly enforced and adhered to. Starting with N. Korea lowering the proverbial pistol it goes about with that's permanently drawn and levelled at the West.


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## High_Gravity (Jan 10, 2012)

OldUSAFSniper said:


> Sallow, at the time of the Korean war, 1951 to 1953, no one had ICBM's.  The United States had the most nuclear devices and were just developing Hydrogen weapons.  Russia had the nuke (tested in 1948), however the only delivery system they had were the bombers that were patterned after the B-29.  Those bombers were copied piece-by-piece from B-29's damaged over Japan that took emergency landings in Russia.  They were taken apart, copied and then a replica was manufactured in Russia.  They knew about the US having a nuke and were secretly developing one themselves from information sent to them from inside the Manhattan project.  Big Joe Stalin wasn't dumb.  He knew that the 'west' was going to be his nemesis after the war because of eastern Europe so he needed an ace in the hole.  If McArthur had used nukes during the Korean War, would Stalin have retaliated?  He would have tried for sure.
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> *As for North Korea, the food that we send is never identified as American foreign aid.  So the question boils down to:  Do we want to feed the North Koreans for just the sake of humanity, because we will never get the credit?  Do you let hundreds of thousands, possibly millions die of starvation because of the complete and utter EVIL that rules them?  AND we know from experience that North Korea will never agree to anything simply based upon whether they get food from us or not.  So the 'gift' would be just for our benefit.
> 
> We KNOW who we are.  We KNOW what is in our heart.  We KNOW that we want nothing but good things for the Korean people and I don't think recognition is part of that.  It would be nice, but it ain't gonna happen.  If you can stand by and watch a man starve to death, then you have your answer.  I cannot... YES, feed them.*



Another question I have is, why is it the responsibilty of the US to feed the North Korean people? China is right there, how come the Chinese can't help them out? Like Swagger said, China is right there and could certainly do it easier than we could flying food over there.


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## FuelRod (Jan 10, 2012)

Let China help them out.
They border one another.  China more than has the means.  They share the same idealogy.  Sit this shit out.


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## High_Gravity (Jan 10, 2012)

FuelRod said:


> Let China help them out.
> They border one another.  China more than has the means.  They share the same idealogy.  Sit this shit out.



Plus China is the whole reason that rogue regime exists, if China didn't inject 1 million Chinese troops into the Korean war against us, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.


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## peach174 (Jan 10, 2012)

No one should help them out.
Helping them only keeps that government in power.


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## Sallow (Jan 10, 2012)

Swagger said:


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Okay..I am good with that.


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## Jeremy (Jan 10, 2012)

> Do you think U.S should donate food to N.Korea?



Only after all of our citizens have been fed.


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## Sallow (Jan 10, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


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China is as self interested as any other country. They saw that the Soviets dropped the ball and had no interest in a US backed Korea at their doorstep. In the past the US fought China..in order to keep Chinese hooked on heroin. (SEE: Boxer Rebellion) And essentially looked the other way when the Japanese were using Chinese as medical experiments. (SEE: Rape of Nanking). However, this should have also provided insight into the fissure between the Soviets and Chinese Communists. To bad it didn't.


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## Intense (Jan 10, 2012)

Sallow said:


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By that reasoning, they should feed them too.


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## Swagger (Jan 10, 2012)

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Yeah, but in all honesty, Russia's never been ashamed of the fact that they couldn't give a fuck about anyone but themselves.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 10, 2012)

midcan5 said:


> Yes, absolutely, for it is only the people who suffer while power uses anything for propaganda. One day North Korea will change as all nations change.



No doubt you support direct aid to fund the North Korean Nuclear program as well.

Not that there is any difference in the two...


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## Intense (Jan 10, 2012)

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Yeah, but why drag us in? How many people around the World do we feed? Let's distinguish between Government aid and Private Charities. Private Charities should have a free hand.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 10, 2012)

Sallow said:


> Yes.



You naturally support us donating plutonium as well, right?


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 10, 2012)

Sallow said:


> Russia would have started lobbing ICBMs. That's a fact.



The USSR didn't HAVE ICBM's in 1953, moron. 



> And no country in it's right mind was going to put up with another country that uses nukes to end wars.



Allah knows that the world was outraged that Japan was bombed 5 years earlier....


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 10, 2012)

Sallow said:


> Okay..well there would have been nukes..for everyone. Not good.



Unlikely. The Communists had stolen the Nuclear secrets less than 2 years prior. Russia had no more than a prototype.

Had Truman not been a colossal fuckup, MacArthur would have crushed both Kim and Mao. He was literally within weeks of defeating Mao's forces IN CHINA.

You've never actually picked up a history book, have you?


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 10, 2012)

FuelRod said:


> Let China help them out.
> They border one another.  China more than has the means.  They share the same idealogy.  Sit this shit out.



Food aid just enables the regime to focus domestic resources on military programs while using foreign aid to feed their public.

It is insane.


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## lizzie (Jan 10, 2012)

I absoltely do not think we should donate food to N Korea. If they insist on running their country with an iron fist and fail to do the things needed to survive in the current world, then let them suffer the consequences of poor judgement and insane leadership.


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## Intense (Jan 10, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


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Exactly


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## OldUSAFSniper (Jan 11, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


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> ...



Well, I am an Evengelical Christian.  Yes, I am a conservative member of the Tea Party and I absolutely KNOW in my heart that the people in charge of North Korean are dangerous, bat-sh*t crazy, and literally two-thirds of what we give them will go to feed the very army they would use against us.  

HG, you are a rational, logical, and well-thought young man and I really do understand the basics of your question.  But if we give North Korea 100 bushels of wheat and one bushel, simply one bushel goes to feed that average Joe in North Korea, I'm good with that.  Why do we have to do it?  Because WE CAN HG.  Remember what the wise man once said:  "You will know them by their works."  Even if no one knows, we will... and so will those select few in North Korea and it will make them crazy!  So will God.  And as Sallow says:  It really is that simple.

Sometimes you have to do what is right regardless of the consequences...


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## High_Gravity (Jan 11, 2012)

OldUSAFSniper said:


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If North Korea was a down trodden barren country like some of the ones in Africa that don't have any standing government and don't pose any harm to anyone but themselves, I would be ok with sending them food. However, North Korea chooses to spend all its money and resources on their nuclear program and its Military, I think if North Korea wanted to feed its people it really could, but right now they are letting the international community feed its population while it diverts all its cash and resources towards its nukes and Military, thats just madness, we are basically getting hustled if we look at it like that.


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## OldUSAFSniper (Jan 11, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


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You are right.  Like I said them people in charge in the North are VERY dangerous and they are bat-sh*t crazy.  I understand what you're saying and I KNOW in my heart that of 100 bushels we send them, at least 90 will feed the army.

But like those workers in Somolia who pay the warlords so they can help the starving.  I just think you have to...  You know, during harvest here in the midwest, you go by some grain elevators and you can see corn, wheat, sorghum and other grains piled up on the ground because there's so much of it, there's no place to put it.  Most of it will rot before it can be put onto cars and sent to market.

Call me an old fool HG... If it was up to me, I couldn't say no.


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## High_Gravity (Jan 11, 2012)

OldUSAFSniper said:


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The thing is we have hungry people right here in the US, unemployment is very high and people on food stamps are at record levels today. I would much rather our food and aid go to American people, by giving all this food and aid we are actually helping a rogue regime that is hostile to the US survive, and I cannot be ok with that. The North Koreans wouldn't piss on us if we were on fire. As far as Somalia goes that is a very sad situation but I don't think just giving them billions in food and aid is the answer either, I remember in 1992 we were in the exact same situation, fast forward 20 years later and there is another famine and now this one is even worse than the one before it, it just seems like these countries with starving people don't learn anything when the West just goes in there and feeds them, holds their hands and takes care of all their problems. We will be feeding the North Koreans forever unless something changes.


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## Sallow (Jan 11, 2012)

Intense said:


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We do and did.

What do you think the wheat embargo was all about?

What do you think coaxed the Soviet Union to de-construct?


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## SayMyName (Jan 11, 2012)

No. I don't believe we should donate food to them, or most of the world. They can buy it from us. The more cats you feed, the more that come around.

Now, if we want to teach them fish...that's another thing.


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## Unkotare (Jan 11, 2012)

midcan5 said:


> Yes, absolutely, for it is only the people who suffer while power uses anything for propaganda. One day North Korea will change as all nations change.



But the people don't actually get most of the food.


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## Unkotare (Jan 11, 2012)

Swagger said:


> It's not really my place to say. But why on earth can't they approach China for additional food aid?




China already gives NK tons of food aid, and fuel, etc.


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## Unkotare (Jan 11, 2012)

Sallow said:


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You're an anti-american idiot.


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## Unkotare (Jan 11, 2012)

Sallow said:


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The Soviets would NOT have committed to war on behalf of NK. They were not that fond of Kim Il-Sung.


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## Unkotare (Jan 11, 2012)

FuelRod said:


> Let China help them out.
> They border one another.  China more than has the means.  They share the same idealogy.  Sit this shit out.




China does give them loads of food aid. So does South Korea. So does Japan.


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## Unkotare (Jan 11, 2012)

Sallow said:


> In the past the US fought China..in order to keep Chinese hooked on heroin. (SEE: Boxer Rebellion) .





That was really more the British.


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## pretorius (Jan 12, 2012)

SayMyName said:


> No. I don't believe we should donate food to them, or most of the world. They can buy it from us.


They don't have a money.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 12, 2012)

editec said:


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ditto


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 12, 2012)

pretorius said:


> They don't have a money.



Then how are they buying nuclear materials and launch vehicles?


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## High_Gravity (Jan 12, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


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As well as paying their Military and showering their leadership with splendid gifts and mansions.


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## Unkotare (Jan 12, 2012)

By counterfeiting our money for one thing.


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## R.C. Christian (Jan 15, 2012)

Let em' starve. It's a sucky thing to do but we can't save everyone. They'll just feed it to their standing army anyway.


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## syrenn (Jan 15, 2012)

Should we be giving a food aid



no.


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## derk (Jan 15, 2012)

No we don't help our enemy's! We starve them economically no technology transfers nothing not one grain of rice. It isn't humanitarian to give aide to your enemy its stupid. If we deal with them harshly eventually they change or leave us alone and the world is a much better place for us.


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## Zander (Jan 15, 2012)

Private charities should donate food - but IMHO,  government should not.  We can lead by example - by not donating we teach the North Koreans that they can't/shouldn't rely on government for everything.


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## Daniel_Milstein (Jan 16, 2012)

Zander said:


> Private charities should donate food - but IMHO,  government should not.  We can lead by example - by not donating we teach the North Koreans that they can't/shouldn't rely on government for everything.



Zander I beg to differ a little from you here. In my opinion N Korea surely needs a lot of help from every country in the world. You know the latest I heard from N Korea is that at the death of 'Dear leader' the general public which was not crying enough are going to spend 2 months in jail! This is absurd, the regime out there doesn't need the help from outside, infact the general population needs help. I think if we are able to send more an more aid, it will help the N koreans better and may be this will help in changing the outlook of the military regime.. I know it is a long shot, but with China using N Korea as their strategic ally to counter S Korea and Japan. The only thing with which a penetration can be made is through the aids. which China doesn't provide them, China has a reputation of giving little and expecting more.. So we have this wonderful opportunity!


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## Unkotare (Jan 16, 2012)

Daniel_Milstein said:


> Zander said:
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China gives a great deal of aid to North Korea. The US, South Korea, and Japan have also given them aid for a long, long time without any mitigating effect on that evil regime. So, your theory is a complete failure.


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## Douger (Jan 16, 2012)

The original poster boy is an idiot for asking such a question. Why don't you  ask the Nazi's that own your ass ? The respondents to this thread, with yes or no,makes no difference in reality.
OH I dunn Gree tah dat !
 Call you mommy because your owners don't give a fuck what you think.


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## Unkotare (Jan 16, 2012)

You're a complete fucking idiot. Take your tired, boring little performance somewhere else, you unimaginative, self-indulgent little bag of shit.


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## editec (Jan 16, 2012)

Its a terrible thing to say, but by feeding NK's starving population* we ENABLE the tyrants to stay in power.*

But you know, if we don't do help it, the CHINESE will.

China just does not need a neighboring nuclear power falling apart and that IS what would happen if other nations didn't help the NK government.


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## TakeAStepBack (Jan 16, 2012)

Not until we can feed every last one of our own here at home.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 16, 2012)

TakeAStepBack said:


> Not until we can feed every last one of our own here at home.



The power of propaganda - Americans are starving....


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## Unkotare (Jan 16, 2012)

editec said:


> Its a terrible thing to say, but by feeding NK's starving population* we ENABLE the tyrants to stay in power.*
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> But you know, if we don't do help it, the CHINESE will.




How many fucking times do I have to say this? China DOES provide aid to North Korea, in the form of direct food aid, fuel, and other assistance. The people there are still suffering and starving because that fucked up regime is so damn incompetent and corrupt. They allow just enough aid to get to the regular people to satisfy some international observers when they allow them in from time to time. Their primary concern is keeping their evil government in power.


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## westwall (Jan 16, 2012)

No!.. Just like we shouldn't be the policeman of the world we also should no longer be the breadbasket of the world.  All actions have consequences.  Let the locals deal with their own problems.

I would love to see all that manufacturing come back home and let the multinationals fight their own wars for once.  leave us out of it!


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## Unkotare (Jan 16, 2012)

westwall said:


> No!.. Just like we shouldn't be the policeman of the world we also should no longer be the breadbasket of the world.  All actions have consequences.  Let the locals deal with their own problems.
> 
> I would love to see all that manufacturing come back home and let the multinationals fight their own wars for once.  leave us out of it!





Not a lot of manufacturing jobs lost to North Korea. Are you saying don't give food aid to any other countries on principle? Is it never in our own best interests?


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## editec (Jan 16, 2012)

westwall said:


> No!.. Just like we shouldn't be the policeman of the world we also should no longer be the breadbasket of the world. All actions have consequences. Let the locals deal with their own problems.
> 
> I would love to see all that manufacturing come back home and let the multinationals fight their own wars for once. leave us out of it!


 

Why on earth would the multinationals fight their own wars when they can get us not only to fight them for them, but pay for them, too?


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## Unkotare (Jan 16, 2012)

The question itself is pretty stupid.


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## westwall (Jan 16, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > No!.. Just like we shouldn't be the policeman of the world we also should no longer be the breadbasket of the world.  All actions have consequences.  Let the locals deal with their own problems.
> ...







Charities are free to do with their resources whatever they choose to do.  When governments get involved several things happen, the most important one is corruption is immediate and pervasive, thus the food that was supposed to go to those in need often dowesn't, so whatever political benefit you hoped to get from your largesse goes unrewarded.

Secondly just giving food away to those who are in desert, or conflict areas will never amount to anything because they never learn to take care of themselves.  It is a never ending cycle of desperation and once again graft.

Food aid to nations that have had major disasters such as occured in Japan and New Zealand I have no problem with, however giving aid to NK or Zimbabwe would be stupid beyond belief.


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## westwall (Jan 16, 2012)

editec said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > No!.. Just like we shouldn't be the policeman of the world we also should no longer be the breadbasket of the world. All actions have consequences. Let the locals deal with their own problems.
> ...







That's the problem isn't it!  Butler was right "War is a Racket".


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## Unkotare (Jan 16, 2012)

westwall said:


> Unkotare said:
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So, you don't think that aid can ever play a role in maintaining a degree of stability in an area of our interest? Or are you opposed to it regardless? Also, do you feel that humanitarian concerns are part of our national interest?


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 16, 2012)

westwall said:


> That's the problem isn't it!  Butler was right "War is a Racket".



There is one reason that wars are fought, and only one - one group wants to take what another group has by force. The ultimate goal of war is theft, in 100% of cases. Money, land, strategic position, influence, freedom - something is always taken by force.


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## Unkotare (Jan 16, 2012)

Don't go too far with the empty semantics.


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## Daniel_Milstein (Jan 17, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> Daniel_Milstein said:
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> > Zander said:
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I guess you are right! So according to you what is the solution? I dont think a war with NK would do any good to anybody.. I feel bad for the residents of the country, they live in poverty and a false, snobbish govt is not doing enough for them!


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## OohPooPahDoo (Jan 17, 2012)

bluesky79 said:


> I think food aid to North Korea must be considered carefully.
> 
> North Korea's leader Kim Jong-Un requested food aid to the United States for the first time since he came to power.
> 
> ...




If we have extra food, then yes.


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## westwall (Jan 17, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> westwall said:
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Show me one place where it has worked.  Humanitarian concerns are fine in cases of natural disasters like I stated earlier.  Absent that, the only groups who should give food to terrorist nations are charitable organisations.  Governments should not get involved with them at all.  It only allows them to continue on ad infinitum.


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## OohPooPahDoo (Jan 17, 2012)

westwall said:


> Unkotare said:
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Isn't N Korea suffering from extreme drought?

Oh look, we just found an excuse to give food to starving people, how irresponsible of us.


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## Unkotare (Jan 17, 2012)

westwall said:


> Unkotare said:
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If there is no effect, then why has China long provided aid to North Korea? They have no inherent love for that fucked up country. What could be their motivation?


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## OohPooPahDoo (Jan 17, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> westwall said:
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China doesn't want North Korean refugees. They give N Korea food aid to lower the incentive for N Koreans to cross into China (in violation of both N Korean and Chinese law, though if I had to pick I'd much rather violate Chinese law)


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## Unkotare (Jan 17, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Unkotare said:
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In other words, they want to maintain stability...


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## Intense (Jan 17, 2012)

westwall said:


> Unkotare said:
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Exactly.


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## High_Gravity (Jan 17, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Unkotare said:
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You pretty much nailed it, China doesn't want an influx of North Korean refugees into their country, and they view North Korea as a bulwark rather than having US Troops right on their doorstep, thats why they sent Chinese Troops into the Korean war in the first place.


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## Intense (Jan 17, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
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In other words, the ball is in their court.


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## Intense (Jan 17, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
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North Korea is China's Step Child. North Korea is their problem.


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## Unkotare (Jan 17, 2012)

Intense said:


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Meaning what?


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## High_Gravity (Jan 17, 2012)

Intense said:


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I wish China would suffocate her step child with a pillow than.


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## Intense (Jan 17, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Intense said:
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Well, I hope change is in the wind there. Then again, with the consolidation of power here, we are starting to look more like NK.  What's up with that?


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## westwall (Jan 17, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> westwall said:
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Nice try but the answer is no.


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## westwall (Jan 17, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> westwall said:
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Because it is in their best interest to do so.  NK is at best an ally and a country that will do China's bidding when that time comes.  And at worst NK is a thorn in Chinas side that China would rather not deal with at the moment as it will be bloody and costly.


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## Unkotare (Jan 17, 2012)

Not sure a famine caused by one of the most fucked up governments the world has ever known counts as a natural disaster or not, but it doesn't make those people any less hungry.


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## Unkotare (Jan 17, 2012)

westwall said:


> Unkotare said:
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That's what I said.


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## Unkotare (Jan 17, 2012)

westwall said:


> And at worst NK is a thorn in Chinas side that China would rather not deal with at the moment as it will be bloody and costly.




Isn't that our position vis-a-vis NK as well?


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## westwall (Jan 17, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> Not sure a famine caused by one of the most fucked up governments the world has ever known counts as a natural disaster or not, but it doesn't make those people any less hungry.







Hungry yes, and hopefully they'll figure out that they have had enough and remove the leadership.  That is up to them.  On the other hand, by continuosly giving them food all you do is increase the instability in the region (or do you consider the artillery bombardment of the SK island and the sinking of the SK warship stable?) because the leadership feels they can get away with anything.


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## Unkotare (Jan 17, 2012)

westwall said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Not sure a famine caused by one of the most fucked up governments the world has ever known counts as a natural disaster or not, but it doesn't make those people any less hungry.
> ...




Do you really think a popular uprising among the literally starving and brainwashed people of NK is ever likely?


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## High_Gravity (Jan 17, 2012)

Intense said:


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I wouldn't go as far as North Korea, but more like Hungary from 1987.


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## High_Gravity (Jan 17, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> westwall said:
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Nope, Kim Jong Un and his family are looked at as Gods there, and the people have no means to launch a revolution even if they wanted to, if you keep the people starving and barely alive, they cannot fight against you.


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## westwall (Jan 17, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > And at worst NK is a thorn in Chinas side that China would rather not deal with at the moment as it will be bloody and costly.
> ...







No, it isn't.  NK has no benefit for us, only cost.  SK is our friend and we will no doubt give them money, but their existence on the peninsula is up to them.


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## westwall (Jan 17, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> westwall said:
> 
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Yes, the ONE truly great motivator of change is hunger.  Look at your history books and you will see most revolutions spring from hunger.


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## Unkotare (Jan 17, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Unkotare said:
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That seems to be the idea.


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## Unkotare (Jan 17, 2012)

westwall said:


> Unkotare said:
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Think about what you just said.


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## Unkotare (Jan 17, 2012)

westwall said:


> Unkotare said:
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You are not looking at the situation there realistically.


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## westwall (Jan 17, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> westwall said:
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Sure I am.  Romania was the same way.  Nicolae Ceau&#537;escu ruled with just as much of an iron fist as the Ill's (I enjoyed typing that, and yes I mispelled on purpose) the revolution started with Olympic sharpshooters killing his guards with .22 target pistols and then it was game on.  Romania is far better off now then it was then.

You need to read more history.


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## Unkotare (Jan 17, 2012)

westwall said:


> Unkotare said:
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You don't seem to understand the situation in NK.


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## westwall (Jan 17, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> westwall said:
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I understand it quite well.  I've read my history.  I even did a paper on the use of terror in revolution in college that was well recieved.  Nothing in NK is different from what was occuring in Romania or Stalins USSR or Mao's China.  It's the same script, just with a different title.


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## Unkotare (Jan 17, 2012)

It's much different than Romania. So was China at it's worst. NK is far worse than either.


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## Intense (Jan 17, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> It's much different than Romania. So was China at it's worst. NK is far worse than either.



Cause and Effect.


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