# Nam greybeards



## ginscpy (Dec 17, 2011)

glad I wasnt one of them 

 lost the war


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## ginscpy (Dec 17, 2011)

asshole LOSERS IMO


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## Douger (Dec 17, 2011)

Another lie/ farce.
It's amazing how much those evul kommiez have progressed since the attempt to give them FreDumb and DemoNcracy.
Here's a buddy of mine that " saw the light"
35th Anniversary - Osprey Packs, Inc :2011: Official Site


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## uscitizen (Dec 17, 2011)

Nam was not an official war.
We have not had an official war per the constitution war since WW2.


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## Sunni Man (Dec 17, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> glad I wasnt one of them
> 
> lost the war


STFU retard......


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## Ringel05 (Dec 17, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> glad I wasnt one of them
> 
> lost the war



I see you're still smoking pot and dropping acid...... certainly explains a lot.


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## ginscpy (Dec 17, 2011)

Rolling Thunder................................


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## Mr Natural (Dec 17, 2011)

uscitizen said:


> Nam was not an official war.
> We have not had an official war per the constitution war since WW2.



Official or necessary.


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## 9thIDdoc (Dec 17, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> glad I wasnt one of them
> 
> lost the war



lol. You are living proof that civilians can be losers too. If you never try you can never lose; or win.


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## The Gadfly (Dec 17, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> glad I wasnt one of them
> 
> lost the war



Proud to be one of them! I have a few good memories, and a lot of bad ones, but when my grandson asks, "Grandpa, what did you do in Vietnam?', I DON'T have to say, "Well, I sat on my ass at home, and let someone else do my fighting for me."

Incidentally, we WON on the battlefield; it was the civilians who managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.


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## whitehall (Dec 17, 2011)

Who do we blame? LBJ set up the Gulf of Tonkin "crisis" and the left supported it because LBJ used to be on JFK's team. Johnson set up a new way of waging war. Americans would fly into battle on helicopters, beat the shit out of the enemy and then turn over the hard won real estate the next day. Americans would learn to drink beer and relax for a while and then fly into battle and what was left would drink beer until the next battle until their year was up and the next group of recruits would do the same thing. When the US finally defeated the enemy after Tet another liberal voice entered the fray. Walter Cronkite flew to VietNam, put on a helmet and flack vest and pretended he was in combat for the cameras and pronounced the Tet victory as a "stalemate". Cronkite told Americans that the US didn't win a victory after all. After Cronkite's "scoop" the VC won a propaganda victory and LBJ tearfully told Americans that he quit and would not run for another term just when Americans needed leadership. Chaos reigned when Nixon was elected .


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## konradv (Dec 17, 2011)

The Gadfly said:


> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> > glad I wasnt one of them
> ...



From what I remember, American lives were snatched from the meatgrinder of a failed policy.  It should never have been pursued, if invading the North wasn't an option.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 17, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> asshole LOSERS IMO



Go to hell you fucking pussy.


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## geauxtohell (Dec 17, 2011)

9thIDdoc said:


> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> > glad I wasnt one of them
> ...





> It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.



- Teddy Roosevelt.


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## ginscpy (Dec 20, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> Rolling Thunder................................



Nam vets do too much grandstandding.


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## FR8_DOG (Dec 21, 2011)

I'm 50. Too young for Vietnam and too old for the 9/11 wars. Never been in the military. Anybody who puts down any veteran of any war is a chicken shit in my book. It's the sleazeball politicians who send them, and fortunately there are men and women with the cajones doing the dirty work...while the rest of us go shopping.

You're better man than I, Gunga Din...to quote Rudyard Kipling


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## The Infidel (Dec 21, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> glad I wasnt one of them
> 
> lost the war





ginscpy said:


> asshole LOSERS IMO





ginscpy said:


> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> > Rolling Thunder................................
> ...



You are an asshole.... those guys served with pride, and they kicked ass and took numbers!

It was the jerks in DC that let them down.

Sounds to me like you are, or would have been, one the fuksticks spitting on them when they returned.

I say FUCK YOU and the donkey you rode in on! 

You punk!


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## ginscpy (Dec 21, 2011)

The Infidel said:


> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> > glad I wasnt one of them
> ...



I was almost one of them.   Born 1953.

Don't disrespect their service - just their grandstandding and complaining afterwards. 

They got their own War memorial - DECADES before the long overdue World War 2 memorial was even in the planning-stages.


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## Moonglow (Dec 21, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> > Rolling Thunder................................
> ...



note the upstart.


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## The Infidel (Dec 21, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> Don't disrespect their service - just their grandstandding and complaining afterwards.



Whatever.. 


You called them asshole losers.... you liar


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## ginscpy (Dec 21, 2011)

The Infidel said:


> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> > Don't disrespect their service - just their grandstandding and complaining afterwards.
> ...



unfortunate choice of words on my part which I apologize for


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## The Infidel (Dec 21, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
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> > ginscpy said:
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I accept it, but will they?

But hey, thanks for owning up to it man.... really.
Ive been guilty of using words I wished I hadnt used, I think we all have a time or two.


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## 9thIDdoc (Dec 21, 2011)

I'm just happy he wasn't there. God only knows how many lives were saved by his absence.


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## ginscpy (Dec 21, 2011)

So the Nam vets  got dealt a bad card - inept leadership in a fringe war againat not-very -good  foe.

And lost in the long run. 

Feel their pain - as I do for the Korea vets  -but some of them got in on WW2


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## editec (Dec 21, 2011)

Viet Name veterans, many of whom were drafted remember, fought a very unpopular war few of them or their families or friends believed in.

So imagine being in the position of having to take orders from people you didn't respect. to fight a war you didn't believe in, on behalf of a people who faulted YOU _for being drafted._

THAT was the Viet Nam veteran's experience in far too many cases.


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## Old Rocks (Dec 21, 2011)

I do not accept Gins apology. Many freinds and some relatives died there, doing their duty to our nation. To denigrate that service is the mark of an ungratefull ass.


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## whitehall (Dec 21, 2011)

Most union educated kids think VietNam was Nixon's fault because that's the way the media spun it after LBJ tearfully surrendered and gave the VC a new life. Blame the right administration (and the right party) for the debacle of VietNam. Democrats played the same game during the Iraq conflict. They gave permission to Bush to use combat troops and then they sat back and pretended they were bystanders or they supported the jihad. Democrats bought the full page ad in the NY Times calling the US commander "betray-us". Harry Reid should be in prison for treason when he tried to influence the morale of the Troops by telling them "the war is lost" just as the Troop Surge was working. John Kerry called American Troops "terrorists" and democrat congressman Murtha called Marines "murderers. Democrats will never tolerate victory during a republican administration even if it means the deaths of American Troops.


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## High_Gravity (Dec 21, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> glad I wasnt one of them
> 
> lost the war



Go fuck yourself you draft dodging cowardly son of a bitch, any Vietnam Veteran is 100 times more of a man than you will ever be faggot.


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## High_Gravity (Dec 21, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> I do not accept Gins apology. Many freinds and some relatives died there, doing their duty to our nation. To denigrate that service is the mark of an ungratefull ass.



Ginscpy is a draft dodging cowardly pussy, I also would not accept his apology.


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## Mr. President (Dec 21, 2011)

We won every battle without public support but because we were fighting France's conflict the Machine that is American politics would gladly sacrifice American lives and victory in the name of political clout.


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## westwall (Dec 21, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> glad I wasnt one of them
> 
> lost the war






No, they didn't.  Politicians did that all on their own.  You are a troll to even say something so stupid.


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## namvet (Dec 22, 2011)

grandstandding ???


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## Hugidwyn (Dec 23, 2011)

The Americans have not won a single war.
WW2 - won the Soviet Union. Vietnam - America lost, the same thing in Iraq and Afghanistan. Even Cuba has not been able to overcome.
The American army - inflated bubble.
Countries have nuclear weapons, Russia, China, India and Iran will soon not worry, Americans do not turn up there.


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## High_Gravity (Dec 23, 2011)

Hugidwyn said:


> The Americans have not won a single war.
> WW2 - won the Soviet Union. Vietnam - America lost, the same thing in Iraq and Afghanistan. Even Cuba has not been able to overcome.
> The American army - inflated bubble.
> Countries have nuclear weapons, Russia, China, India and Iran will soon not worry, Americans do not turn up there.


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## westwall (Dec 23, 2011)

Hugidwyn said:


> The Americans have not won a single war.
> WW2 - won the Soviet Union. Vietnam - America lost, the same thing in Iraq and Afghanistan. Even Cuba has not been able to overcome.
> The American army - inflated bubble.
> Countries have nuclear weapons, Russia, China, India and Iran will soon not worry, Americans do not turn up there.






WWII was won by our production.  We gave the USSR over 600,000 trucks, thousands of aircraft, thousands of tanks, millions of rounds of ammunition, billions of pounds of food.  Were it not for the US you would have lost by 1943.  You had a couple fo real good generals after Stalin murdered your officer corps, Koniev was probably the best, Rokossovsky would be a close second.  They saved your country...with US equipment.


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## Samson (Dec 23, 2011)

I hate puppies and kittens.


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## Hugidwyn (Dec 23, 2011)

westwall said:


> Hugidwyn said:
> 
> 
> > The Americans have not won a single war.
> ...



WWII was won by Russian T-34 tank, the equipment the U.S. was only 10% of the needs of the army.


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## High_Gravity (Dec 23, 2011)

Hugidwyn said:


> westwall said:
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> > Hugidwyn said:
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## MikeK (Dec 23, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> glad I wasnt one of them
> 
> lost the war


Vietnam was not a war and we neither won nor lost.  

There was no good reason for our troops being there and the compromising circumstances under which they were forced to function amounted to shameful misuse of our military resources.  I was part of the protest movement which ultimately forced an end to that debacle and I am glad to have done that.


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## High_Gravity (Dec 23, 2011)

MikeK said:


> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> > glad I wasnt one of them
> ...



Didn't you fight there as well?


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## skipper (Dec 23, 2011)

FR8_DOG said:


> I'm 50. Too young for Vietnam and too old for the 9/11 wars. Never been in the military. Anybody who puts down any veteran of any war is a chicken shit in my book. It's the sleazeball politicians who send them, and fortunately there are men and women with the cajones doing the dirty work...while the rest of us go shopping.
> 
> You're better man than I, Gunga Din...to quote Rudyard Kipling



Yep. And those same sleazeball politicians tucked in their kids behind a draft deferment or later a favorable lottery position.


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## westwall (Dec 23, 2011)

Hugidwyn said:


> westwall said:
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> > Hugidwyn said:
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Horsecrap.  We mobilised your army.  You would have been walking all the way to Berlin (at a much higher cost in lives and much longer time) if you even made it there.  You outnumbered the Germans by over 30 to 1 and you outproduced them by 25 to 1 and you STILL almost managed to lose the damn war.  If Hitler hadn't been such a moron they might have pulled it off.  

The T-34 was certainly the best tank in the world till the Panther showed up but when you were out of tanks, and aircraft, and food, and bullets, the US sent thousands of ships to your country so you would survive.

To deny that is simple stupidity.  The USSR suffered terrible casualties because you had a leader who felt you weren't worth anything.  He felt a tank was worth more than your life.
That's why you suffered so terribly during the war.  Your own leaders were at war with you as well as the Germans.

It is a credit to the soviet PEOPLE that you prevailed.  With our help.


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## Hugidwyn (Dec 23, 2011)

westwall said:


> Hugidwyn said:
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> > westwall said:
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We are certainly grateful for U.S. aid under the Lend-Lease.

However, if you take the cost of the USSR in military spending for 1941-1945, they will be $ 375 billion, the amount of U.S. Lend-lease was about $ 11 billion

The fact remains that the most difficult for the Soviet Union during the war - in the summer and autumn of 1941 - Lend-Lease to the USSR was not yet. Nazi armies were stopped at the outskirts of Leningrad and Moscow only Russian weapon.

It would be right to believe that U.S. economic aid to the Soviet armed forces (unfolded on a large scale only since 1943!) Accelerated the final defeat of Nazi forces on the Eastern Front. But it would be erroneous to conclude that without such assistance, this victory would not come at all.


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## whitehall (Dec 23, 2011)

Russian Tanks in VietNam? History according to draft dodging cowards? LBJ set up the rules. LBJ set up the rules. LBJ set up the rules so that the greatest Military force could win every battle but lose the war. Harry Truman did the same thing in Korea.


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## westwall (Dec 23, 2011)

Hugidwyn said:


> westwall said:
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> > Hugidwyn said:
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Hub Zemke and John Allison were training Soviet pilots on P-40 aircraft early in 1941 (before the US entered the war) and Hub flew at least two combat sorties against the Germans that we know of.  US Lend Lease equipment was arriving in Murmansk by August of 1941.  Total amount in WWII dollars was around 11.3 billion dollars, not a dime of which was ever repaid.

I also forgot one other important contribution and that was the 15,000,000 pairs of boots that saved the feet of your soldiers.  That one item alone was deemed critical during the fighting in front of Smolensk.  In 1941 the USSR was reeling, the US gave them enough equipment to carry on the war.  350,000 of explosives were delivered while the Soviet factories were being relocated to the Urals to keep them out of the hands of the Germans.

Without US assistance there would have been no bullets, no bombs and no artillery shells to fight the Germans at Stalingrad.  Operation Typhoon was launched with US boots and supply vehicles supplied by us.  The Soviet air force was predominantly made up of American and British types at that time as well.  1942 saw the extensive ramping up of production by your country that allowed them to finally win.  

We bridged that gap for you.  We made it possible for you to win.  Without our supplies you would have lost by the end of 1941.  You simply had no means of fighting any more.
The bravery of the Soviet soldier has never been in question, but when you are reduced to marching soldiers with no weapons into the teeth of a machine gun nest to run that nest out of bullets so you can finally kill the Germans in that nest.......well...you have a serious problem with supply.

That's where you were...till we showed up.


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## SFC Ollie (Dec 23, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> asshole LOSERS IMO



Fuck you.

I stand along side my fellow Nam vets every month, and among us are Vets from the gulf, Korea, and WW2. 

And even the lowest of them is miles above your ass.

Sergeant First Class
US Army Retired
1971 -1993

And in case you didn't understand the first time:

FUCK YOU!


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## namvet (Dec 23, 2011)

Patton was right. we should have enlisted the Nazi's and declared war on Stalin's ass.


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## MikeK (Dec 24, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> MikeK said:
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> 
> > ginscpy said:
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No.  I was separated in 1960 and my inactive Reserve obligation expired in '62.


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## MikeK (Dec 24, 2011)

whitehall said:


> Russian Tanks in VietNam? History according to draft dodging cowards? LBJ set up the rules. LBJ set up the rules. LBJ set up the rules so that the greatest Military force could win every battle but lose the war. Harry Truman did the same thing in Korea.


I would call someone who dodged the draft for WW-II a coward but not one who dodged Vietnam, because there was no good reason for our troops to be involved there.


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## 9thIDdoc (Dec 24, 2011)

_


MikeK said:





whitehall said:



			Russian Tanks in VietNam? History according to draft dodging cowards? LBJ set up the rules. LBJ set up the rules. LBJ set up the rules so that the greatest Military force could win every battle but lose the war. Harry Truman did the same thing in Korea.
		
Click to expand...

I would call someone who dodged the draft for WW-II a coward but not one who dodged Vietnam, because there was no good reason for our troops to be involved there.[/QU
		
Click to expand...

_


MikeK said:


> OTE]
> 
> The simple truth of the matter is that your judgement of the matter was then, and remains, meaningless. Such decisions were simply not your job nor were you privy to much of the information shared by those who really were involved in such decession making. You're on some kind of ego trip.
> 
> Draft dodgers and/or deserters are ideed cowards of the slimest sort. They are willing to accept the bennies of being a US citizen without admiting the resonsibities. If I had not felt this way when my draft notice arrived, my life-and the lives of others- would certainly have been very diferent.


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## MikeK (Dec 24, 2011)

9thIDdoc said:


> The simple truth of the matter is that your judgement of the matter was then, and remains, meaningless. Such decisions were simply not your job nor were you privy to much of the information shared by those who really were involved in such decession making. You're on some kind of ego trip.


What you perceive as my ego trip is actually a symptom of your delusional ignorance and vain need to think of yourself as some kind of war hero, when in fact you were one of many unfortunate young Americans who were forced by an incompetent and corrupt government into participating in a military aggression which our military had absolutely no business being involved in.  Now that it's over and you managed to survive you willingly and eagerly allow yourself to be duped into thinking you served your country when in fact you served a bunch of conniving Washington politicians and, above all, the emerging Military Industrial Complex that reaped handsome profits from every bullet you fired and every bomb our planes dropped.  

I don't expect you to believe me because my opinion is easy for you to overrule.  But if you had any genuine interest in finding out the truth behind your ordeal in Vietnam you would read Robert McNamara's book, _In Retrospect._  He was the man responsible for sending you, along with the 58,000 killed and countless who were maimed, into that unnecessary madness.  If you had read that book you would remember the following paragraph:

(Excerpt)

_"We of the Kennedy and Johnson administrations who participated in the decisions on Vietnam acted according to what we thought were the principles and traditions of this nation. We made our decisions in light of those values. Yet we were wrong, terribly wrong. We owe it to future generations to explain why. I truly believe that we made an error not of values and intentions, but of judgment and capabilities."_

If you don't wish to read the book you can find that quote in Noam Chomsky's assessment of McNamara's debacle here:  Robert McNamara, by Noam Chomsky (Excerpted from Class Warfare)



> Draft dodgers and/or deserters are ideed cowards of the slimest sort. They are willing to accept the bennies of being a US citizen without admiting the resonsibities. If I had not felt this way when my draft notice arrived, my life-and the lives of others- would certainly have been very diferent.


If you were drafted during the earliest stages of the Vietnam "conflict" your ignorance was excusable.  But as that wholly unnecessary fiasco escalated and anyone with half a brain could figure out that we had no business there it's your own fault if you were deluded by the Gung-Ho bullshit.  Because the people you were fighting had done absolutely nothing to your country and they represented absolutely no threat to us.  They were engaged in a civil war which was none of our business.  

I joined the Marine Corps in 1956.  I did so for the most sincerely patriotic reason.  If my Country needed me I was willing to fight and to die, if necessary.  At that time I would not have believed my Country would send me into harm's way for some misguided, unnecessary, bullshit reason.  Luckily I had fulfilled my military obligation by the time Vietnam got going.  But if I hadn't I would have done everything I could to avoid the draft, up to and including going to Canada.  

While I was ready to fight and die for my Country I was not ready to fight and die for Robert McNamara.  If you were, that is your problem.


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## Trajan (Dec 24, 2011)

Mr Clean said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> > Nam was not an official war.
> ...


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## SFC Ollie (Dec 24, 2011)

Noam Chomsky?

The guy who describes himself as an anarcho-syndicalist? 

And you want to quote him to explain Nam? I don't think so........


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## Trajan (Dec 24, 2011)

MikeK said:


> ginscpy said:
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> 
> > glad I wasnt one of them
> ...



and after all these years you're still ignorant as hell too. to bad. 

one would have  thought that with all of the information available by now, you would have discovered that;  yes there was such a thing as the Domino effect,  Ho was just another murdering commie,  Diem wasn't nearly as bad as he was portrayed and Cabot Lodge Jr.(sent by Kennedy on purpose) cost us what maybe have been our only chance to keep the south free of the north.


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## Trajan (Dec 24, 2011)

MikeK said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> > The simple truth of the matter is that your judgement of the matter was then, and remains, meaningless. Such decisions were simply not your job nor were you privy to much of the information shared by those who really were involved in such decession making. You're on some kind of ego trip.
> ...



I wish I had read that post before bothering to answer above. 



you choose to use Chomsky as the ideological underpinning of your 'protest' 
 vis a vis vietnam? 

( oh and you do understand how contradictory  to your delusion that quote is...right? ) 


the question now is do you believe chomskys bullshit or are you just another sheep? what ?you heard this gobbledygook while you were beating on your bongo's and smoking dope? like grateful dead,  music after the high wears off, reality is still out there........well for some that is.


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## westwall (Dec 24, 2011)

MikeK said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> > The simple truth of the matter is that your judgement of the matter was then, and remains, meaningless. Such decisions were simply not your job nor were you privy to much of the information shared by those who really were involved in such decession making. You're on some kind of ego trip.
> ...







Noam Chomskey is not a person I would look to for support in your efforts.  He was, and still is, an ardent supporter of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge.  You need to get your head on a little straighter before engaging in a discussion like this.


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## MikeK (Dec 24, 2011)

westwall said:


> Noam Chomskey is not a person I would look to for support in your efforts.  He was, and still is, an ardent supporter of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge.  You need to get your head on a little straighter before engaging in a discussion like this.


Read what I wrote a bit more closely, please.  I recommended reading Robert McNamara's book as a primary source of information and Chomsky's on-line compendium as a secondary source for those who reading a whole book is too daunting a task.    

So read the excerpted quote again, this time being mindful that it is McNamara's quote.  Not Chomsky's.  The quote tells the whole tale.  What Chomsky has to say is redundant.  You can agree with it if you wish to or reject it if you choose.  It doesn't change a thing.


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## AnonymousIV (Dec 25, 2011)

Vietnam Veterans were subject to mind control:  http://www.rense.com/general17/imp.htm  Don't hear much about it.  I would tend to trust my government ~ if it asked me to be implanted.  Is that right or wrong?


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## AnonymousIV (Dec 25, 2011)

Microchip Mind Control, Implants And Cybernetics


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## Sunni Man (Dec 25, 2011)

AnonymousIV said:


> Vietnam Veterans were subject to mind control:  http://www.rense.com/general17/imp.htm  Don't hear much about it.  I would tend to trust my government ~ if it asked me to be implanted.  Is that right or wrong?


Actually, in your case; what they did to you is called a lobotomy.


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## AnonymousIV (Dec 25, 2011)

Should I have trusted them?


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## Trajan (Dec 25, 2011)

MikeK said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Noam Chomskey is not a person I would look to for support in your efforts.  He was, and still is, an ardent supporter of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge.  You need to get your head on a little straighter before engaging in a discussion like this.
> ...



and here we go-

_"We of the Kennedy and Johnson administrations who participated in the decisions on Vietnam acted according to what we thought were the principles and traditions of this nation. We made our decisions in light of those values. Yet we were wrong, terribly wrong. We owe it to future generations to explain why. I truly believe that we made an error not of values and intentions, but of judgment and capabilities."_

 do you understand the differences between "values and intentions" and "judgment and capabilities"?


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## MikeK (Dec 25, 2011)

Trajan said:


> MikeK said:
> 
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> > westwall said:
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I don't care what McNamara ascribes his monumental error to.  The fact remains he was absoluely and consistently wrong in his decisions to continuously maintain and escalate the fighting in Vietnam.  And it isn't as if he weren't challenged about it by many voices in the protest movement, which he arrogantly, often contemptuously, dismissed -- and by doing so cost the lives of 58,000 young Americans, not to mention the tens of thousands who were maimed and/or disfigured, captured and tortured, and the fortune in treasure he imperiously wasted.  

Who cares why he was wrong?  The fact is Vietnam was an unnecessary mistake.  That is the only point I wished to make here but you and a few others here seem determined to disagree in the face of historical evidence.


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## Trajan (Dec 25, 2011)

MikeK said:


> Trajan said:
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> > MikeK said:
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hey you brought him up, I didn't. You posted a quote of his you thought was germane, I commented. 

and guess what? hindsight is 20 20.....get over it.


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## AnonymousIV (Dec 25, 2011)

"values and intentions" and "judgment and capabilities"? ~ I understand values and intentions cause judgement to be wrong.  I have to stop and honor the VietNam veteran.  Thank-you for your service to our country and thanks for leading us through the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and having our backs at the same time.


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## MikeK (Dec 25, 2011)

AnonymousIV said:


> "values and intentions" and "judgment and capabilities"? ~ I understand values and intentions cause judgement to be wrong.  I have to stop and honor the VietNam veteran.  Thank-you for your service to our country and thanks for leading us through the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and having our backs at the same time.


What you fail to understand is your patronizing expression of gratitude tends to perpetuate the mistaken notion that the fighting in Vietnam somehow served the interests of our Nation when in fact the opposite is true.  You might as well thank Robert McNamara for his _"service to our country."_  After all, if it weren't for him we might never have had the opportunity to kill 58,000 of our young men and cripple tens of thousands more -- for no good reason.   

While Vietnam veterans deserve our sympathy for being exploited by a corrupt and incompetent government the only entity who has a valid reason to express gratitude for the unnecessary ordeal our troops suffered in Vietnam is the Military Industrial Complex.  The problem with assuming a subjectively grateful public posture is it enables repetitions of the same kind of unnecessary military aggressions like Iraq and Afghanistan.  

Try examining the situation objectively and see it for what it is, not what you'd like it to be.


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## SFC Ollie (Dec 25, 2011)

Take your sympathy and stick it where the sun don't shine. We neither want nor need it.


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## Trajan (Dec 25, 2011)

MikeK said:


> AnonymousIV said:
> 
> 
> > "values and intentions" and "judgment and capabilities"? ~ I understand values and intentions cause judgement to be wrong.  I have to stop and honor the VietNam veteran.  Thank-you for your service to our country and thanks for leading us through the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and having our backs at the same time.
> ...





> Try examining the situation objectively




take your own advice bub.


----------



## Dot Com (Dec 25, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> So the Nam vets  got dealt a bad card - inept leadership in a fringe war *againat not-very -good  foe.*
> 
> And lost in the long run.
> 
> Feel their pain - as I do for the Korea vets  -but some of them got in on WW2


"A not very good foe"??? To quote two people:
McNamara admission reopens the wounds of Vietnam - Baltimore Sun


> WASHINGTON -- Robert S. McNamara's *confession* in his recently published memoirs that *the Vietnam War was "terribly wrong"* has revived painful memories and shown the country to be almost as bitterly divided about the conflict now as it was a generation ago.
> 
> Mr. McNamara, defense secretary under Presidents John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson, has been *deluged with criticism on the airwaves and in print for saying only now that the war was unwinnable, instead of saying it at a time when he could have hastened its end.*
> 
> ...


Walter Sobchak:


> The man in the black pajamas, Dude. Worthy fuckin' adversary.


----------



## westwall (Dec 25, 2011)

MikeK said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Noam Chomskey is not a person I would look to for support in your efforts.  He was, and still is, an ardent supporter of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge.  You need to get your head on a little straighter before engaging in a discussion like this.
> ...






I did, McNamara is a self serving prick, responsible for the needless deaths of thousands of GI's due to his incompetent micro management.


----------



## Dot Com (Dec 25, 2011)

westwall said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



That is not the major point of McNamara's contrition 
Robert McNamara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


> "[h]e concluded *well before leaving the Pentagon that the war was futile, but he did not share that insight with the public* until late in life. In 1995, he took a stand against his own conduct of the war, confessing in a memoir that it was 'wrong, terribly wrong.'" In return, he faced a "firestorm of scorn" at that time


----------



## AnonymousIV (Dec 25, 2011)

MikeK said:


> AnonymousIV said:
> 
> 
> > "values and intentions" and "judgment and capabilities"? ~ I understand values and intentions cause judgement to be wrong.  I have to stop and honor the VietNam veteran.  Thank-you for your service to our country and thanks for leading us through the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and having our backs at the same time.
> ...



I am a retired Marine and do see it objectively.  I worked with Vietnam vets everyday I served and I know them.  They were determined to lead us through the next war, they had learned and they were for passing back the knowledge.  You see they were alive and kicking when war was not at hand.  We had 20 years of relative peace, who did that the Vietnam vets or the government?  See that objectively.

Also body count is best estimates 26,320 Iraqi insurgents.  Was the American government suppose to overlook that as fantasy?


----------



## High_Gravity (Dec 27, 2011)

SFC Ollie said:


> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> > asshole LOSERS IMO
> ...



Sarge lit Ginscps bitch ass on fire!


----------



## High_Gravity (Dec 27, 2011)

MikeK said:


> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> > glad I wasnt one of them
> ...



You know, I have heard quite a few Americans say Vietnam was not a war but a police action, does anyone know if the Vietnamese felt the same way about this? I am pretty damn sure they considered the American interventions in Vietnam a war.


----------



## westwall (Dec 27, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > ginscpy said:
> ...







Yep, "police action" is a legal term promulgated by the Democrats running the show.  The guys fighting and dying would sure disagree with them.


----------



## High_Gravity (Dec 27, 2011)

westwall said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...



The way I see it, when you send your Military into a foreign country to exchange fire with an enemy, its a war no matter how you slice it, this whole police action thing is crazy talk, our men and women were not in Vietnam to arrest drunk drivers and jay walkers here.


----------



## AnonymousIV (Dec 27, 2011)

Saw a Marines calling card, read wars fought, police actions too.  I have a school classmate his dad was killed in VietNam, he says police action.  We all know it was an inherited war from France, and supplied by communist red China.


----------



## MikeK (Dec 27, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > ginscpy said:
> ...


You can be sure they considered the American presence there to be an unwanted military aggression -- just as you would consider the presence of an invading force of Vietnamese military in your home town.


----------



## MikeK (Dec 27, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> The way I see it, when you send your Military into a foreign country to exchange fire with an enemy, its a war no matter how you slice it, this whole police action thing is crazy talk, our men and women were not in Vietnam to arrest drunk drivers and jay walkers here.


You see it this way because you are too young to remember when your country _was_ at war, which was back in the early 1940s.  

Although our government sent components of our military resources into the jungles of Vietnam without provocation to fight and die for the purpose of wrongfully interfering in that nation's civil war does not mean our Country was at _war._  And the main reason for the distinction is the North Vietnamese had done nothing aggressive to the U.S. nor did they represent a threat to the United States.  And while this outrageous misuse of our troops was going on your life proceeded without the slightest disruption or concern.  For the average American citizen the fighting in Vietnam was a curious abstraction.  

I was a boy of six when Pearl Harbor was bombed.  While most of my recollections of the atmosphere and events throughout the next four years are comparatively vague I do retain some vivid memories, such as the wailing of my Aunt when the Western Union lady stopped at our house that day to deliver the dreaded black-bordered telegram.  

At that time our Country was in grave danger of being invaded and occupied by two very powerful military forces and our troops were dying by the dozens, hundreds or thousands almost every day of the week.  We heard stories on the radio every evening about such places as Bataan, Corregidor, Saipan, The Bulge, North Africa, Iwo Jima, Normandy, Tarawa, Tinian, Guadalcanal.  People had good cause to be afraid and although I was just a little boy I felt that fear very clearly.  

My mother, a very religious Catholic, prayed and cried every night.  My aunt worked at a night-shift job at the Brooklyn Navy Yard welding armor plate on warships.  My brother and I went around with pails they gave us to collect scrap metal, nylon stockings and rubber.  Every day in school the teacher collected dimes for "War Stamps" which were pasted in a booklet.  When the booklet was filled we got a "War Bond."

Everything was rationed.  Those who owned cars were allotted gasoline based on their need.  Things like sugar, coffee, some meats, stockings, anything made of metal or rubber, etc., were either rare luxuries or were never seen.  There were blackouts at least once a week and the Reserves set up anti-aircraft guns and searchlights at certain intersections in cities like Brooklyn and Manhattan.  

I'll end it here with assurance to you that if our Country ever goes to _war_ again, either we all will be vaporized or you will know what _war_ is and is not.


----------



## westwall (Dec 28, 2011)

MikeK said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > The way I see it, when you send your Military into a foreign country to exchange fire with an enemy, its a war no matter how you slice it, this whole police action thing is crazy talk, our men and women were not in Vietnam to arrest drunk drivers and jay walkers here.
> ...







That was "TOTAL WAR" and the rationing was useless as it turned out.  However, the scale was certainly much greater.  But, if you want to play a niggling little game, just calculate the number of casualties suffered during WWII based on the amount of people actually involved at the sharp end of the stick vs the same metrics in Vietnam.

You will discover something interesting.


----------



## ginscpy (Dec 28, 2011)

Nam war looked like a war machine that coulnt beat a ragtag bunch of guerillas in pajamas


----------



## editec (Dec 28, 2011)

Remember the excuse for viet Nam?

That so terrifying DOMINO THEORY?

Remember how SE asia would have been commie if the NV beat SV?

Well gueswhat?  That was that was nothingh but a load of right wing crank anticommie bullshit, eh?

Foreign Trade - U.S. Trade with Vietnam

Everything about that war was a great big fat LIE, folks.


----------



## Sunni Man (Dec 28, 2011)

editec said:


> Everything about that war was a great big fat LIE, folks.


Yes, the reasons for the war were bogus at best.

But the war it's self was brutal and unforgiving.


----------



## High_Gravity (Dec 28, 2011)

MikeK said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...



I would consider an invading force of Vietnamese in my city as an act of war, not a police action.


----------



## High_Gravity (Dec 28, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> Nam war looked like a war machine that coulnt beat a ragtag bunch of guerillas in pajamas



Those guerillas in pajamas would make you their bitch in less than 2 seconds faggot, now shut the fuck up and stop disrespecting Veterans you draft dodging cum gargling piece of shit.


----------



## ginscpy (Dec 28, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> > Nam war looked like a war machine that coulnt beat a ragtag bunch of guerillas in pajamas
> ...



Another gem by Low Gravitos


----------



## High_Gravity (Dec 28, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > ginscpy said:
> ...



How do you type with your boyfriends cock in your mouth?


----------



## MikeK (Dec 28, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...


The Vietnamese were at war.  The United States was not.  The U.S. Government had deployed some of its military resources to that country to interfere with its civil war.  

It assuredly was an act of war in accordance with International Law -- which the United States does not acknowledge.  If it did, George W. Bush, along with many of his conspirators, would be in prison, or worse.


----------



## MikeK (Dec 28, 2011)

westwall said:


> That was "TOTAL WAR" and the rationing was useless as it turned out.  However, the scale was certainly much greater.  But, if you want to play a niggling little game, just calculate the number of casualties suffered during WWII based on the amount of people actually involved at the sharp end of the stick vs the same metrics in Vietnam.
> 
> You will discover something interesting.


I would discover that a hell of a lot of American lives were sacrificed for no reason other than ego gratification of a number of elitist sonsabitches in Washington who had the power to send them to their deaths to further their own political ambitions.


----------



## westwall (Dec 28, 2011)

MikeK said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > That was "TOTAL WAR" and the rationing was useless as it turned out.  However, the scale was certainly much greater.  But, if you want to play a niggling little game, just calculate the number of casualties suffered during WWII based on the amount of people actually involved at the sharp end of the stick vs the same metrics in Vietnam.
> ...






And become immensly wealthy.  When LBJ left office most defence work for the *WAR* was being done in Texas.  he made out like a fucking bandit and thousands of our young people died so he could make a buck.  He and his whole cabinet are a bunch of cocksuckers.


----------



## Old Rocks (Dec 28, 2011)

Yes, and we Dems essentially forced not to run for a second term. But you 'Conservatives' were two nutless to do the same for George W.


----------



## westwall (Dec 28, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Yes, and we Dems essentially forced not to run for a second term. But you 'Conservatives' were two nutless to do the same for George W.






Us Dems did nothing of the sort Batman.  He decided that the campaign would be too difficult because he was such an unpopular prick and the Republicans had ammo out the ass to make him look like a fool.  He quit because he knew there was a damned good chance he would lose and it would drain his campaign fund.

Bush and Co. weren't my friends knucklehead.  I didn't vote for him the first time around, though I did the second.  I tend to vote Libertarian.


----------



## daveman (Dec 28, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> glad I wasnt one of them
> 
> lost the war








There's a 50-50 chance you'll regret your post in the morning.


----------



## daveman (Dec 28, 2011)

konradv said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> > ginscpy said:
> ...


Invading the North wasn't an option due to liberals wanting to lose the war.  They were more loyal to the Communist Party than they were to America.


----------



## daveman (Dec 28, 2011)

Hugidwyn said:


> The Americans have not won a single war.
> WW2 - won the Soviet Union. Vietnam - America lost, the same thing in Iraq and Afghanistan. Even Cuba has not been able to overcome.
> The American army - inflated bubble.
> Countries have nuclear weapons, Russia, China, India and Iran will soon not worry, Americans do not turn up there.


Hey, asshole, when I want your opinion...well, I don't know what I'll do.  I can't imagine ever wanting your opinion.


----------



## AnonymousIV (Dec 28, 2011)

New way of thinking. 

"http://enculturation.gmu.edu/6.2/baird"


----------



## daveman (Dec 28, 2011)

MikeK said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> > The simple truth of the matter is that your judgement of the matter was then, and remains, meaningless. Such decisions were simply not your job nor were you privy to much of the information shared by those who really were involved in such decession making. You're on some kind of ego trip.
> ...


Just so you know, Chomsky is an America-hating liar.  Any post that cites him is suitable for nothing but immediate dismissal and scorn.


----------



## daveman (Dec 28, 2011)

MikeK said:


> AnonymousIV said:
> 
> 
> > "values and intentions" and "judgment and capabilities"? ~ I understand values and intentions cause judgement to be wrong.  I have to stop and honor the VietNam veteran.  Thank-you for your service to our country and thanks for leading us through the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and having our backs at the same time.
> ...


Your sympathy for the poor Communists oppressed by America is more convincing that your sympathy for American veterans.


----------



## daveman (Dec 28, 2011)

editec said:


> Remember the excuse for viet Nam?
> 
> That so terrifying DOMINO THEORY?
> 
> ...


Poor Communists.


----------



## daveman (Dec 28, 2011)

MikeK said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...


Funny how you refuse to mention any Democrats, like LBJ and Obama, as war criminals.

And by "funny", I mean "intellectually dishonest and pretty damn pathetic".


----------



## The Gadfly (Dec 29, 2011)

Dot Com said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...



Typical McNamara-even after all these years, that so-called "genius" knows he fucked up Vietnam, but STILL does not know how he did it! Well, here's a hint, Bob-IF you and those other civilian "whiz kids" on your staff could have removed your heads from your arrogant, elitist arses long enough to figure out whatever the hell it was you wanted us to do, things might have turned out differently. As it was, what we have here is a failure of leadership. NOW, you're sorry? Go look for your absolution elsewhere; you can start at the Wall.....


----------



## AnonymousIV (Dec 29, 2011)

daveman said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > AnonymousIV said:
> ...



Are 
all VietNam vets sympathy hounds?  That's always you're reply, when anyone shows graditude.  I understand what it perpetuates(sp?), everybody's not the same, and frankly,
your unswerving attitude, makes me think, it's hollow.


----------



## daveman (Dec 29, 2011)

AnonymousIV said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...


I can't think of any Vietnam vets who are sympathy hounds.  


AnonymousIV said:


> That's always you're reply, when anyone shows graditude.  I understand what it perpetuates(sp?), everybody's not the same, and frankly,
> your unswerving attitude, makes me think, it's hollow.


It's my reply when it's merited.  If Mike weren't showing more sympathy for Communists than he is for our veterans, I wouldn't have said it.


----------



## AnonymousIV (Dec 29, 2011)

Sorry, Dave, I thought your statement, was aimed @ me.  Imaginary slights, a part of DD.


----------



## daveman (Dec 29, 2011)

AnonymousIV said:


> Sorry, Dave, I thought your statement, was aimed @ me.  Imaginary slights, a part of DD.


No worries.


----------



## The Gadfly (Dec 29, 2011)

AnonymousIV said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...



Since you asked....NO, we are not! The same thing goes for ginscpy's comment about us "grandstanding". Speaking for myself, I am not a victim nor a villain; I am not a demon, nor a saint; not a hero nor a sucker; not anything else people who want to use our service to advance their own political agenda have called us, or made us out to be. I am a man, a survivor, an American who proudly did his duty to this nation. I am an individual, not a stereotype or a caricature. I am not broken, nor ashamed, nor defeated; not a whipped dog begging for the scraps from the permanent civilian's table.

I do not want or need your sympathy or your pity; you can save that, for the families of 58, 272 of my brothers and sisters whose names are on the Wall, for those of my brothers disabled as a result of their service, for those still waiting (after 40 years!) for their agent orange compensation; for my brothers lost, forgotten, and alone on the streets.

 I do not want your apologies for how we were treated; if you were not one of those who abused us, no apology is needed; and if you were, it is over, it is done, and dealing with how YOU feel now about what YOU did, is YOUR problem, not mine.

All I want from you, is to be treated with the same respect due to any American combat veteran; no more, no less. As for any of you who want to judge my war, or how I fought it, I suggest you learn to play the game, before you attempt to coach it.


----------



## High_Gravity (Dec 29, 2011)

The Gadfly said:


> AnonymousIV said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...


----------



## PrometheusBound (Dec 29, 2011)

Having served in combat for 7 months near the border with North Vietnam, I can verify that we were thrown into a war that was unnecessary and unwinnable, given the fact that the people we were trying to save from Communism were cowards, crooks, and Communist sympathizers.  The South Vietnamese lost the war and prevented us from winning it.  They had no right to emigrate here, but those in power in America, who got their own sons out of having to die for their mistakes, have no shame in continuing to insult veterans by putting foreigners' lives and ambitions over those of their fellow Americans.


----------



## SFC Ollie (Dec 29, 2011)

Our politics lost the Vietnam war.

Nuff said.


----------



## AnonymousIV (Dec 30, 2011)

An old MSgt, now since departed, told me. when he left VietNam, they were shooting at 12 year old boys.  All things implied.......


----------



## editec (Dec 30, 2011)

So we lost the war.

Have the dominos fallen?

No.

Viet Nam is now a "most favored" trading partner.

The war was premised on a lie, folks.

Like most WARS of empire this nation has been in for the last 50 years.


----------



## namvet (Dec 30, 2011)

editec said:


> So we lost the war.
> 
> Have the dominos fallen?
> 
> ...



no he lost it.  a quitter. a big major loser. like most libs soft headed and feeble minded

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-FibDxpkb0]Lyndon Johnson - Remarks on Decision to not seek Reelection - YouTube[/ame]​


----------



## MikeK (Dec 30, 2011)

namvet said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> > So we lost the war.
> ...


The issue is not whether we "won" or "lost" in our armed interference with the Vietnamese civil war.  The issue is what you guys were put through for no legitimate reason.  The lies that were told to justify sending you there are war crimes, as are the lies that were told to put us in Iraq.  The problem is there are no prosecutions, which ensures it will happen again and again -- because these sonsabitches protect each other.


----------



## daveman (Dec 30, 2011)

editec said:


> So we lost the war.
> 
> Have the dominos fallen?
> 
> ...


How many people did the northern Communist regime kill in the South after we left?  How many people did Pol Pot kill in Cambodia?

You really shouldn't read Chomsky.  He got all of that so utterly wrong.


----------



## westwall (Dec 30, 2011)

daveman said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> > So we lost the war.
> ...







Oh no, to leftists it's Ok for governments to kill its own citizens.  When Stalin was murdering millions during the collectivisation of the farms the leftists in the UK and here (who knew exactly what was going on) commended him for his strength of will in dragging the country towards their socialist utopia.

Pricks.


----------



## daveman (Dec 30, 2011)

westwall said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > editec said:
> ...


The left never met a dictator they wouldn't felch.


----------



## usmcstinger (Jan 3, 2012)

I blame Sect. of Defense McNamara for not letting the Generals run the war. Operation Dye Marker (his tactic) was responsible for too many needless deaths of my brother Marines and naval MCBs. 
C 1/4 USMC Vietnam 67-68 Northern I Corps. I have no regrets and make no apologies!


----------



## The Gadfly (Jan 4, 2012)

usmcstinger said:


> I blame Sect. of Defense McNamara for not letting the Generals run the war. Operation Dye Marker (his tactic) was responsible for too many needless deaths of my brother Marines and naval MCBs.
> C 1/4 USMC Vietnam 67-68 Northern I Corps. I have no regrets and make no apologies!



Amen, brother, amen!


----------



## PrometheusBound (Jan 4, 2012)

usmcstinger said:


> I blame Sect. of Defense McNamara for not letting the Generals run the war. Operation Dye Marker (his tactic) was responsible for too many needless deaths of my brother Marines and naval MCBs.
> C 1/4 USMC Vietnam 67-68 Northern I Corps. I have no regrets and make no apologies![/QUOTE
> In Okinawa on my way back from the Nam, I met somebody I had gone through ITR with who'd been assigned to the Fourth Marines.  I asked him whether others from our ITR had gone to his company.  There were four, all KIA.  He himself had been bayoneted and shot in another firefight.  I was with Hotel 2/5, which was portrayed in the movie "Full Metal Jacket" about actions ten months after I left it.


----------



## usmcstinger (Jan 5, 2012)

66% of those who served in Vietnam enlisted in the Armed Forces.


----------



## usmcstinger (Jan 5, 2012)

Amen Brother. This nation failed to separate the war from the war.

To those who deride us: The only thing you know about Vietnam is you were not there!


----------



## usmcstinger (Jan 5, 2012)

Those of us in I Corps fought the North Vietnamese Army. After the TET Offensive, the Viet Cong were no longer a viable fighting force and the NVA had to increase there forces through most of South Vietnam.

Obviously the only thing you know about the Vietnam War is you were not there. Keep drinking that Cool Aid.


----------



## usmcstinger (Mar 9, 2012)

The Nazis were defeated by the Russian Winter, just like Napoleon.


----------



## editec (Mar 9, 2012)

whitehall said:


> Who do we blame? LBJ set up the Gulf of Tonkin "crisis" and_ the left_ supported it because LBJ used to be on JFK's team. Johnson set up a new way of waging war. Americans would fly into battle on helicopters, beat the shit out of the enemy and then turn over the hard won real estate the next day. Americans would learn to drink beer and relax for a while and then fly into battle and what was left would drink beer until the next battle until their year was up and the next group of recruits would do the same thing. When the US finally defeated the enemy after Tet another liberal voice entered the fray. Walter Cronkite flew to VietNam, put on a helmet and flack vest and pretended he was in combat for the cameras and pronounced the Tet victory as a "stalemate". Cronkite told Americans that the US didn't win a victory after all. After Cronkite's "scoop" the VC won a propaganda victory and LBJ tearfully told Americans that he quit and would not run for another term just when Americans needed leadership. Chaos reigned when Nixon was elected .


 

Are you an authentic moron, or just another right-wing liar?

Hard to know your motive, of course, but you're definitely one or the other, lad.


----------



## Hugidwyn (Mar 9, 2012)

usmcstinger said:


> The Nazis were defeated by the Russian Winter, just like Napoleon.



The Americans were defeated by the Vietnamese "hot summer".


----------



## The Gadfly (Mar 9, 2012)

Hugidwyn said:


> usmcstinger said:
> 
> 
> > The Nazis were defeated by the Russian Winter, just like Napoleon.
> ...



No. Your Vietnamese proxies NEVER defeated us on the battlefield; you might ask the VC and the NVA ( what's left of them) about that, since you Russkis never had the guts to come to the the party yourselves.


----------



## namvet (Mar 9, 2012)

Hugidwyn said:


> usmcstinger said:
> 
> 
> > The Nazis were defeated by the Russian Winter, just like Napoleon.
> ...



and you had your Vietnam in Afghanistan


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 9, 2012)

Hugidwyn said:


> usmcstinger said:
> 
> 
> > The Nazis were defeated by the Russian Winter, just like Napoleon.
> ...



Go fuck yourself clown.


----------



## ginscpy (Mar 11, 2012)

win awar - then complain.......................


----------



## whitehall (Mar 11, 2012)

American Troops won every battle. After Tet the enemy was defeated but a dumb ass democrat president listened to a dumb ass news guy and quit just when we needed leadership.


----------



## Sunni Man (Mar 11, 2012)

Hugidwyn said:


> usmcstinger said:
> 
> 
> > The Nazis were defeated by the Russian Winter, just like Napoleon.
> ...


STFU Boris


----------



## daveman (Mar 11, 2012)

Hugidwyn said:


> usmcstinger said:
> 
> 
> > The Nazis were defeated by the Russian Winter, just like Napoleon.
> ...


It gets just as hot in America, dumbass.


----------



## Hugidwyn (Mar 12, 2012)

The Gadfly said:


> Hugidwyn said:
> 
> 
> > usmcstinger said:
> ...



The aim was not achieved, then lost the war.


----------



## Hugidwyn (Mar 12, 2012)

namvet said:


> Hugidwyn said:
> 
> 
> > usmcstinger said:
> ...



U.S. defeat in Afghanistan, 11 years of murder and abuse of civilians has led to the expected shame - the Americans have entered into negotiations with those against whom war.


----------



## Hugidwyn (Mar 12, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Hugidwyn said:
> 
> 
> > usmcstinger said:
> ...



veteran of the battle with alcohol


----------



## Hugidwyn (Mar 12, 2012)

Sunni Man said:


> Hugidwyn said:
> 
> 
> > usmcstinger said:
> ...



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PaHcZUHI00]Shut the fuck up. - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Hugidwyn (Mar 12, 2012)

daveman said:


> Hugidwyn said:
> 
> 
> > usmcstinger said:
> ...



It gets hot in a short time on the American way.


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 12, 2012)

Hugidwyn said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Hugidwyn said:
> ...



Yes and?


----------



## The Gadfly (Mar 12, 2012)

Hugidwyn said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Hugidwyn said:
> ...



There's a new twist,-a Russian talking about a "battle with alcohol". I thought you Russkis were raised on vodka; soaked in it, in fact. Whatever else you Russians are, I never met one of you who couldn't hold his liquor-in considerable quantity. Of course, then, there's you. Can't hold you vodka, Ivan? Some Russian you are!


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 12, 2012)

The Gadfly said:


> Hugidwyn said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



Hugidwyn is a lightweight pussy, he gets wasted hammered drunk off of half a wine cooler.


----------



## usmcstinger (Mar 12, 2012)

I do not want anything from that piece of human garbage.


----------



## Barb (Mar 12, 2012)

ginscpy said:


> asshole LOSERS IMO





> Nam greybeards
> glad I wasnt one of them
> 
> lost the war



I don't agree with ANY war. There are better ways to get things done, ways that help people. 

You, sir, are a fucktard. You are. It isn't nice, but it is what it is.


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## Hugidwyn (Mar 12, 2012)

The Gadfly said:


> Hugidwyn said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



I have not seen not a single living American. But knowing that all Americans have one-third of gay, another third are on drugs, the rest are sick incurable diseases and AIDS. I think your attitude to one of them Pindos.


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## Hugidwyn (Mar 12, 2012)

Who says:


usmcstinger said:


> The Nazis were defeated by the Russian Winter, just like Napoleon.


It is a fool or scum.

Russian are the winners of the Nazis in WW2.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 13, 2012)

Hugidwyn said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> > Hugidwyn said:
> ...



Yes because Russia doesn't have any drugs, gays or diseases in their country.


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## usmcstinger (Mar 23, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Hugidwyn said:
> 
> 
> > The Gadfly said:
> ...


 

How did Communism work out for you guys?
The one thing that became very evident was that you are terrible farmers.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 23, 2012)

usmcstinger said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Hugidwyn said:
> ...



Well the Russians do have some good strippers and excellent vodka, so they at least have that to hang their hats on.


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## Caroljo (Mar 23, 2012)

editec said:


> Viet Name veterans, many of whom were drafted remember, fought a very unpopular war few of them or their families or friends believed in.
> 
> So imagine being in the position of having to take orders from people you didn't respect. to fight a war you didn't believe in, on behalf of a people who faulted YOU _for being drafted._
> 
> THAT was the Viet Nam veteran's experience in far too many cases.



My husband volunteered, in 1971.  He was 17 so his parents had to approved his enlistment.  Knowing their son would go to VN.  He knew that's what he would do.  He joined the Marines, on Ross Hill for quite a while...one of the worst areas you could be. We've been married 32 yrs now, and to this day he will have nightmares about what he went through.  I know he has PTSD (which was not known about back then). So HE has a lot of problems and he enlisted.  I can't imagine what some of them that had no choice (but to run to Canada) are going through.


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## daveman (Mar 23, 2012)

Hugidwyn said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Hugidwyn said:
> ...


And yet, you remain a dumbass.


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## editec (Mar 25, 2012)

Caroljo said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> > Viet Name veterans, many of whom were drafted remember, fought a very unpopular war few of them or their families or friends believed in.
> ...


 
Somebody fed you a line of bullshit, honey.

If your husband joined the marines in Jan, 1. 1971 he wasn't trained for a combat assignment until at least July of 71.

The last U.S. Marine combat units departed Vietnam on _April 31st 1971_.

Nowq you may be wondering why I happen to know that.

Because, dear heart, I had ORDERS to go to Southeast ASIA assigned to a Marine Corps Helicopter assult team when NIXXON saved my ASS from having to serve there.

So either YOU are bullshitting us, or you hubby has been lying to you for a mighty long time.

BTW, if its the latter, don't beat up your old man about it.

*Hero wannbes* are quite common in the USA.


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## daveman (Mar 25, 2012)

boldpilot said:


> chain management and enterprise software solutions backed by more than 40 years of industry



I hate spammers.  Reported.


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