# President Trump announces new tariffs: 25% for steel, 10% for aluminum



## basquebromance (Mar 1, 2018)

he just fullfilled another campaign promise!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611


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## BULLDOG (Mar 1, 2018)

Great. We've been needing a good trade war. MAGA!!!!


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## usmbguest5318 (Mar 1, 2018)

> President Trump announces new tariffs: 25% for steel, 10% for aluminum


Good, lord.  So rather than putting a tariff on value-added products, finished goods, he taxes raw materials, thus ensuring that the economic impacts of the tariff flows through the entire supply chain.  That's brilliant.  NOT!!!  It's flat-out stupid.

*Effects of a Tariff: Large Country*



​When a large importing country implements a tariff it will cause an increase in the price of the good on the domestic market and a decrease in the price in the rest of the world.  But since Trump wants to impose the tariff on raw materials, it'll raise not only the price of steel and aluminum in the U.S., but also the price of everything made from that steel and aluminum.

As for who will bear the incidence of the tax/tariff, well, that depends on the elasticity of demand and the elasticity of supply for each given product class, and in some instances, each differentiable product.


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## dudmuck (Mar 1, 2018)

Worked great back in 2002:
_The protection of the steel industry in the United States had unintended consequences and perverse effects: it reduced production of steel in the United States,[how?] increased costs to users, and increased unemployment in associated industries. A study from 2003 found that around 200,000 jobs were lost as a result.[6][7]_
I wonder what Trump tower is built from?
_
And Obama's chinese tires._


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## Lastamender (Mar 1, 2018)

Xelor said:


> > President Trump announces new tariffs: 25% for steel, 10% for aluminum
> 
> 
> Good, lord.  So rather than putting a tariff on value-added products, finished goods, he taxes raw materials, thus ensuring that the economic impacts of the tariff flows through the entire supply chain.  That's brilliant.  NOT!!!  It's flat-out stupid.
> ...


You are right there, give Trump a call.


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## TheOldSchool (Mar 1, 2018)

Massive tariffs and subsidies!  The GOP’s new theory for capitalism’s success!


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## BluesLegend (Mar 1, 2018)

Should we allow other countries like communist China to dump steel in the U.S. killing jobs for American workers? That's what liberals in this thread are saying. If China dumping steel into the U.S. was hurting illegals the liberals would be in an uproar.


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 1, 2018)

So much for the free market conservatives.  


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 1, 2018)

How about a tariff on Illegals?


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## TheOldSchool (Mar 1, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


> Should we allow other countries like communist China to dump steel in the U.S. killing jobs for American workers? That's what liberals in this thread are saying. If China dumping steel into the U.S. was hurting illegals the liberals would be in an uproar.


Wow who knew you were a socialist liberal?


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## Thinker101 (Mar 1, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> So much for the free market conservatives.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com



So much for free everything liberals.


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## TheOldSchool (Mar 1, 2018)

Thinker101 said:


> Golfing Gator said:
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> > So much for the free market conservatives.
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What the...


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## BluesLegend (Mar 1, 2018)

TheOldSchool said:


> BluesLegend said:
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> > Should we allow other countries like communist China to dump steel in the U.S. killing jobs for American workers? That's what liberals in this thread are saying. If China dumping steel into the U.S. was hurting illegals the liberals would be in an uproar.
> ...



Wow you are dumb.


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## TheOldSchool (Mar 1, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


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Oh did you think mass tariffs are a fiscally conservative concept?


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## Thinker101 (Mar 1, 2018)

TheOldSchool said:


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Not to worry, I'm sure most things are above your head.


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## Brain357 (Mar 1, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611



Now there is some bad economic policy.  Now every product we make with steel or aluminum will be less competitive in the world market.


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## Brain357 (Mar 1, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> So much for the free market conservatives.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com



Conservatives think big government should dictate pricing.  Sounds kinda socialist...


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## Brain357 (Mar 1, 2018)

In the case of Mr Bush’s 2002 move to impose tariffs on steel imports, one estimate found that the resulting higher costs led to the loss of about 200,000 jobs — more people than were employed in the US steel industry as a whole — and $4bn in lost wages at smaller manufacturers that used steel.

Subscribe to read


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## eddiew37 (Mar 1, 2018)

Brain357 said:


> In the case of Mr Bush’s 2002 move to impose tariffs on steel imports, one estimate found that the resulting higher costs led to the loss of about 200,000 jobs — more people than were employed in the US steel industry as a whole — and $4bn in lost wages at smaller manufacturers that used steel.
> 
> Subscribe to read


NAS off 120 DOW off 470 as of this post  Thank you Drumpf    Tariffs?


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## Brain357 (Mar 1, 2018)

In greater detail, let’s summarize the outcomes from protectionist trade policy in the form of steel tariffs: 1) Domestic steelmakers will win with higher steel prices, higher profits and share prices (U.S. Steel’s stock has nearly doubled since January 1), and greater market share, but 2) Domestic steel-using manufacturers will lose because of higher input prices, lower profits, and possibly reduced sales and market share) and 3) Millions of American consumers and businesses will lose when they now pay higher prices for everything that contains steel, including cars, appliances, tractors, tools, construction materials, wind turbines, forklifts, pipelines, and airplanes.


US steel tariffs: A case study in protectionism, economic losses on net, and 'legal plunder' - AEI


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 1, 2018)

Brain357 said:


> Golfing Gator said:
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They also think the government should dictate who a company gives a discount to, so this is no surprise from them


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## NightFox (Mar 1, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> he just fullfilled another campaign promise!


He promised to be a protectionist during the campaign? From what I recall he promised to "negotiate new trade deals", not pursue protectionist trade policies and risk incurring retaliation from our trading partners.

I wonder if he realizes who ultimately pays the price for such tariffs.

"_Trade creates wealth_"


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## Brain357 (Mar 1, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


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They really aren’t conservatives at all...  they seem to be what they claim to hate.  Sad but funny at the same time.


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 1, 2018)

My conspiracy theory for the day:

If you were a globalist, what better way to push your agenda than to put a wolf in sheeps clothing in the White House to  talk about “merica first” and then to make America weaker economically and to weaken our position all around the world. 



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## Golfing Gator (Mar 1, 2018)

Brain357 said:


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They are though the reason our country is moving left so rapidly.  The left has always pushed our county left and in the past the right pushed back the other way.  But more and more the right is helping push left out of some need to “teach the left a lesson”. 


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## NightFox (Mar 1, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> My conspiracy theory for the day:
> 
> *If you were a globalist, what better way to push your agenda* than to put a wolf in sheeps clothing in the White House to  talk about “merica first” and then to make America weaker economically and to weaken our position all around the world.



The better way would to push the agenda would have been to just let Prince Nimrod keep his White House gig, he was doing a splendid job of making America weaker economically and it would have saved the few billion dollars that we blew on the election.


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## eddiew37 (Mar 1, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


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the burden of these tariffs will be passed on to the american consumer


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 1, 2018)

NightFox said:


> Golfing Gator said:
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But the people would not have gone along with that.  Now we have half the populous cheering as we get weaker


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## Lakhota (Mar 1, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611



Yeah, and the stock market is tanking.


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## eddiew37 (Mar 1, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


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But  but  Republicans always have their tax cuts to fall back on


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## NightFox (Mar 1, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


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... but on the bright side, it was the OTHER halves turn to cheer, so at least nobody can accuse our political system of being impolite. 

*American Duopoly*: _A political system where two major political parties take turns fucking over the citizenry_.


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 1, 2018)

Lakhota said:


> basquebromance said:
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The last thing Wall Street wants to hear is “tariff”. 

And it was up for the day prior to the announcement from Trump


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 1, 2018)

NightFox said:


> Golfing Gator said:
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 Post of the day


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## eddiew37 (Mar 1, 2018)

Lakhota said:


> basquebromance said:
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only 548 as of now  Tariffs?? There goes the tax breaks


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## RealDave (Mar 1, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


> Should we allow other countries like communist China to dump steel in the U.S. killing jobs for American workers? That's what liberals in this thread are saying. If China dumping steel into the U.S. was hurting illegals the liberals would be in an uproar.


We have anti-dumping laws dickbrain.


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## debbiedowner (Mar 1, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611



And go over and take a look at the market because of this. Here goes a trade war.

CNBC US Home


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## RealDave (Mar 1, 2018)

It raises the cost of some of our exported manmufscturing items making them less competitive in the global masrket whilke inviting import duties of our products overseas.   This is what happens when you elect an idiot for President who does't know shit about real business..


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## debbiedowner (Mar 1, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


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Oh shit the tax breaks have slowly been dwindling away in the past few weeks with the cost of goods going up.


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## debbiedowner (Mar 1, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


> Should we allow other countries like communist China to dump steel in the U.S. killing jobs for American workers? That's what liberals in this thread are saying. If China dumping steel into the U.S. was hurting illegals the liberals would be in an uproar.



Get back with us at the end of the year and again tell us how these tariffs are the greatest thing since sliced bread.


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## debbiedowner (Mar 1, 2018)

NightFox said:


> basquebromance said:
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Nope he and his gang are too goddamn stupid.


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## TomParks (Mar 1, 2018)

About time...he should have done it sooner


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## bripat9643 (Mar 1, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


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"Control the border" is another thing they don't like to hear.  On the other hand, workers do like to hear it.


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## Vandalshandle (Mar 1, 2018)

So, the stock market is tanking, which is going to hurt his buddies at the country club, and the millionaire c congressman and senators, as well as retirees living on their investments. Meantime, the price of everything goes up, which, again, hurts American consumers, but help steel manufacturers. The price of new cars goes up, which hurts auto manufacturers, and dealers. China decides to start a trade war, which hurts everybody. 

This is the beginning of what I predicted when he was elected. The trashing of our economy.


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 1, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


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When they lose their jobs due to the isolationist policies of the president, they will care more about that than the border.  


Tariffs cost jobs, always have and always will.   


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## bendog (Mar 1, 2018)

TheOldSchool said:


> Massive tariffs and subsidies!  The GOP’s new theory for capitalism’s success!


Soon the Trumpbots can call him Man of Steel


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## WEATHER53 (Mar 1, 2018)

If it's good for illegals then it is good and if it's good for productive and tax paying citizens then it's bad
Lib 101


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## bendog (Mar 1, 2018)

Xelor said:


> > President Trump announces new tariffs: 25% for steel, 10% for aluminum
> 
> 
> Good, lord.  So rather than putting a tariff on value-added products, finished goods, he taxes raw materials, thus ensuring that the economic impacts of the tariff flows through the entire supply chain.  That's brilliant.  NOT!!!  It's flat-out stupid.
> ...


But this won't raise the cost of my next Lexus will it?


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## jillian (Mar 1, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611



and the stock market tanked.

go idiots!


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Mar 1, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


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Why don't you let the dust settle before you claim victory ffs. The stocks could very well bounce back.


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## jillian (Mar 1, 2018)

WEATHER53 said:


> If it's good for illegals then it is good and if it's good for productive and tax paying citizens then it's bad
> Lib 101



what are you blathering about?


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Mar 1, 2018)

jillian said:


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It's already regained half of what it initially lost. Just hold onto your panties before you get too excited about Americans losing money.


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## TheOldSchool (Mar 1, 2018)

WEATHER53 said:


> If it's good for illegals then it is good and if it's good for productive and tax paying citizens then it's bad
> Lib 101


Another revealed socialist?  Hello!  What’s your favorite thing about artificial controls on the free market?


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## TheOldSchool (Mar 1, 2018)

Grampa Murked U said:


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Why?  Everything that uses steel is about to cost 25% more.  A fun, new way for Americans to lose money


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## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611





About fucking time.


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## The Derp (Mar 1, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611



Of course these costs will get immediately passed on to consumers, which always happens whenever tariffs are raised.


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## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> So much for the free market conservatives.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com




The Free Market people lost in the primaries.

Did you miss all of that? Plenty of debate about it.


And for good reason.


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## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

The Derp said:


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not if they change sources to American manufacturers.


Easy way to avoid the tax.


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 1, 2018)

Correll said:


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Yep. The statist won, sorry I forgot.  My bad


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## TheOldSchool (Mar 1, 2018)

Correll said:


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Yeah they’ll just pay way more for U.S. steel and give consumers a discount as a reward


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## The Derp (Mar 1, 2018)

Correll said:


> not if they change sources to American manufacturers.



Moron, that's not how it works.


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## eddiew37 (Mar 1, 2018)

bendog said:


> Xelor said:
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AND your can of beer  Repubs will be up in arms


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## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


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Bending over to be fucked by our trade "partners" is no freedom.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Mar 1, 2018)

TheOldSchool said:


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That is one of two possible outcomes.

The steel industry has two options here. Do not raise prices by 25% and ensure the growth of the industry in the US.

Or

Raise their prices by the tariff margin and ensure that the Chineese remain the top seller in the U.S. 


Which would you choose if it were up to you?


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## oreo (Mar 1, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611




Ha.Ha.--So he's starting a trade war.  Tariff's and taxes have never created a single job in this country, but they're great for job loss's.

The offended countries will just put taxes and tariff's on American made products, sending the cost's of products skyrocketing to the consumers. Prices skyrocket, the Fed raises interest rates to combat inflation.  Consumers tuck in---stop spending and here come the job lay-offs.

The *Smoot Hawley tariff* of the Great Depression in the 1930's is very well known for making that depression last much longer than it should have.
The Smoot-Hawley Tariff and the Great Depression | Theodore Phalan, Deema Yazigi, Thomas Rustici





You have elected an economic MORON!


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## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

TheOldSchool said:


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Sorry if paying workers a decent wage is personally offensive to you.


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## eddiew37 (Mar 1, 2018)

Grampa Murked U said:


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True gramps  It was overdone and I picked up a few  BUT tariffs will bring up prices  Even his own man Cohen was against it


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## TyroneSlothrop (Mar 1, 2018)

Amanda Katz  @katzish 
Impressed by Trump's quick-witted move to disrupt "White House in chaos" narrative with "plunging stock market" narrative

 2:34 PM - Mar 1, 2018


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## theDoctorisIn (Mar 1, 2018)

Grampa Murked U said:


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Or they can raise their prices up to _just under_ what Chinese prices are, with the tariff (say, 24%).


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## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

The Derp said:


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Sure it is. Tariffs are on IMPORTS.


American steel is not IMPORTED.


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## theDoctorisIn (Mar 1, 2018)

Correll said:


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Do you know why manufacturers buy imported steel?

It's because American steel is more expensive.

If these tariffs are passed, prices are going up on anything made with steel - and we as a country will be less competitive in the international markets.


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## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

theDoctorisIn said:


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I'm sure that some of them will think that undercutting their competitors by ONE MASSIVE PERCENT, is the way to do business.


Hopefully, not all of them.


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## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

theDoctorisIn said:


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Based on the way the trade deficit is always rising, to new and more absurd levels, we can't compete regardless.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Mar 1, 2018)

theDoctorisIn said:


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Imo that would not lead to sustained growth. Tariffs are not permanent and at some point they are going to have to compete on a level playing field while still expanding


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## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 1, 2018)

debbiedowner said:


> BluesLegend said:
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> > Should we allow other countries like communist China to dump steel in the U.S. killing jobs for American workers? That's what liberals in this thread are saying. If China dumping steel into the U.S. was hurting illegals the liberals would be in an uproar.
> ...


*Loot and Scoot*

Your faction of Republicans lost to the likes of LBJ, Carter, Clinton, and Obama.  Free Traders are traitors; Americans have awakened and we will put Greedheads on the guillotine stand.


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## Wry Catcher (Mar 1, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611



And down go the Markets.

Once again I need to point out that emotional responses to real world issues by Trump lead to unintended consequences.  The POTUS is in crisis, he is inept and is incompetent and Chaos continues to reign.


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## The2ndAmendment (Mar 1, 2018)

BULLDOG said:


> Great. We've been needing a good trade war. MAGA!!!!
> View attachment 179718



We've been in a trade war for over a decade with currency manipulators.


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## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

Wry Catcher said:


> basquebromance said:
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Trade is supposed to be mutually beneficial. 

Why should we put up with ever rising trade deficits that are killing our middle class and working poor?


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## mikegriffith1 (Mar 1, 2018)

Thank goodness we are going to start protecting at least some of our industries the same way that so many other countries protect theirs. It's about time. 

American industry thrived and expanded under protective tariffs for decades, especially starting with Abraham Lincoln.


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## Brain357 (Mar 1, 2018)

Correll said:


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Interesting way you describe them practically giving us their resources.  You must hate Christmas.


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## oreo (Mar 1, 2018)

Correll said:


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What do you think the Tarrifed countries are going to do with American exports--  You know like General Motors--that send their cars overseas to sell?  What about General Electric who send their products overseas to sell?  And all the other corporations in this country that sell products overseas.

Do you people actually believe that if we're taxing their products by 25% they won't do the same to American products?  

The only people that get a stick shoved up a dark spot are American consumers--as prices on products will skyrocket--which the FED comes in quickly, raises interest rates to combat inflation, and then consumers stop spending and then comes the massive job lay-offs.

*This is what we call a trade war,* that have never created a single job in this country but are great for job loss's.





The Smoot Hawley tariff of the Great Depression is responsible for making that depression last much longer than it should have.
The Smoot-Hawley Tariff and the Great Depression | Theodore Phalan, Deema Yazigi, Thomas Rustici

*You have elected an economic MORON.*


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## william the wie (Mar 1, 2018)

This puts the most pressure on Mexico and Canada because they now know the gun is loaded. This is not aimed at China but rather to the trade policies of our biggest trade partners.


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## Brain357 (Mar 1, 2018)

Again:
In greater detail, let’s summarize the outcomes from protectionist trade policy in the form of steel tariffs: 1) Domestic steelmakers will win with higher steel prices, higher profits and share prices (U.S. Steel’s stock has nearly doubled since January 1), and greater market share, but 2) Domestic steel-using manufacturers will lose because of higher input prices, lower profits, and possibly reduced sales and market share) and 3) Millions of American consumers and businesses will lose when they now pay higher prices for everything that contains steel, including cars, appliances, tractors, tools, construction materials, wind turbines, forklifts, pipelines, and airplanes.

US steel tariffs: A case study in protectionism, economic losses on net, and 'legal plunder' - AEI


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## theDoctorisIn (Mar 1, 2018)

mikegriffith1 said:


> Thank goodness we are going to start protecting at least some of our industries the same way that so many other countries protect theirs. It's about time.
> 
> American industry thrived and expanded under protective tariffs for decades, especially starting with Abraham Lincoln.





Because we know how analogus the world market today is to what it was a hundred and fifty years ago.


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## debbiedowner (Mar 1, 2018)

Vandalshandle said:


> So, the stock market is tanking, which is going to hurt his buddies at the country club, and the millionaire c congressman and senators, as well as retirees living on their investments. Meantime, the price of everything goes up, which, again, hurts American consumers, but help steel manufacturers. The price of new cars goes up, which hurts auto manufacturers, and dealers. China decides to start a trade war, which hurts everybody.
> 
> This is the beginning of what I predicted when he was elected. The trashing of our economy.



What companies and trade groups are saying about Trump's steel and aluminum tariffs


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## bripat9643 (Mar 1, 2018)

Vandalshandle said:


> So, the stock market is tanking, which is going to hurt his buddies at the country club, and the millionaire c congressman and senators, as well as retirees living on their investments. Meantime, the price of everything goes up, which, again, hurts American consumers, but help steel manufacturers. The price of new cars goes up, which hurts auto manufacturers, and dealers. China decides to start a trade war, which hurts everybody.
> 
> This is the beginning of what I predicted when he was elected. The trashing of our economy.



If China starts a trade war, the main people they will be screwing are the Chinese.  The stock market isn't tanking.  Even if it was, what does that have to do with tariffs?


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## debbiedowner (Mar 1, 2018)

Correll said:


> basquebromance said:
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You must be one of them there russians everyone is talking about because I don't think many American's with an  IQ over 50 wants to pay higher prices on just about everything they purchase in the next few months not to mention the slow down in building that will result. Slow downs and higher prices eventually = loss of jobs. But who cares, right trumpie?


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## Vandalshandle (Mar 1, 2018)

Correll said:


> The Derp said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...



I can't believe you posted that. The only reason that he is putting a 25% tariff on steel is because our steel costs 25% more. So, how is switching to American steel going to be cost efficient?

Don't give up your day job to become an economist.


----------



## TheOldSchool (Mar 1, 2018)

Grampa Murked U said:


> TheOldSchool said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...


U.S. steel is already more expensive.  That’s why Trump’s artificially raising the price of imported steel.  Steel manufacturers don’t have to raise their prices, and prices for consumers will still go up.


----------



## debbiedowner (Mar 1, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > So, the stock market is tanking, which is going to hurt his buddies at the country club, and the millionaire c congressman and senators, as well as retirees living on their investments. Meantime, the price of everything goes up, which, again, hurts American consumers, but help steel manufacturers. The price of new cars goes up, which hurts auto manufacturers, and dealers. China decides to start a trade war, which hurts everybody.
> ...



LOL tell me you're really not that dumb.


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

Brain357 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...





Jobs are better to have than resources.


----------



## eddiew37 (Mar 1, 2018)

TheOldSchool said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > TheOldSchool said:
> ...


And there go his tax cuts


----------



## TomParks (Mar 1, 2018)

Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin.......


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

Brain357 said:


> Again:
> In greater detail, let’s summarize the outcomes from protectionist trade policy in the form of steel tariffs: 1) Domestic steelmakers will win with higher steel prices, higher profits and share prices (U.S. Steel’s stock has nearly doubled since January 1), and greater market share, but 2) Domestic steel-using manufacturers will lose because of higher input prices, lower profits, and possibly reduced sales and market share) and 3) Millions of American consumers and businesses will lose when they now pay higher prices for everything that contains steel, including cars, appliances, tractors, tools, construction materials, wind turbines, forklifts, pipelines, and airplanes.
> 
> US steel tariffs: A case study in protectionism, economic losses on net, and 'legal plunder' - AEI





That's what the Free Traders said back in the 80s.


Their policy did not give US the results promised. 


Time to admit failure and move on.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 1, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...



Low wage labor from across the border costs far more jobs.  An American is 100 times more likely to lose his job because of an illegal alien then because of a 10% tariff on steal.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of tariffs, but I have mixed emotions when it comes to China.  They engage in all kinds of practices that make me question whether 100% pure free trade is always a good thing.


----------



## Brain357 (Mar 1, 2018)

Correll said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



You think we will sell a lot of cars when we are paying artificially higher steel prices?  Last steel tariffs we lost jobs.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 1, 2018)

mikegriffith1 said:


> Thank goodness we are going to start protecting at least some of our industries the same way that so many other countries protect theirs. It's about time.
> 
> American industry thrived and expanded under protective tariffs for decades, especially starting with Abraham Lincoln.



Trade wars were being waged all over the planet in the late 1920's. Can you say, "Great Depression"? I knew you could!


----------



## TomParks (Mar 1, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



Hopefully it's just the start


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

debbiedowner said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...




I take it you missed the last 30 years that did not go as the Free Traders promised?


----------



## TomParks (Mar 1, 2018)

Brain357 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Average increase for a car is $100 to $200


----------



## debbiedowner (Mar 1, 2018)

Correll said:


> debbiedowner said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Watch.


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

Brain357 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...





I think that we will not improve our trade balance until we show the rest of the world that we will not be their bitch anymore.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 1, 2018)

debbiedowner said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...



We have a $350 billion dollar trade deficit with the Chinese.  How would a trade war not hurt them badly?


----------



## TomParks (Mar 1, 2018)

Does anyone remember before nafta? We had the highest period of economic growth under Reagan without it


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

debbiedowner said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > debbiedowner said:
> ...




I have been. And I noticed that the Free Traders were completely wrong.


I will continue to watch.


When are you going to start?


----------



## Brain357 (Mar 1, 2018)

Estimates of job losses in steel-using industries as a consequence of the safeguard tariffs imposed in the early 2000s are few but range from 26,000 to 200,000 jobs. It is difficult to know how many steel-producing jobs were saved, but a Peterson Institute report assessing various policy proposals floated before the Bush safeguards went into force suggests that it was between 3,000 and 10,000 jobs.

Will Steel Tariffs put U.S. Jobs at Risk? | Econofact


----------



## TheOldSchool (Mar 1, 2018)

Correll said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


We bought up the rest of the world.  That’s why there’s a trade imbalance.  They’ve been our bitch for decades.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 1, 2018)

Opps! looks like the price of Uncle Donnie's wall just went up 25%


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 1, 2018)

This just in Donald is prohibiting the manufacture of diesel train engines. All future engines must burn coal.


----------



## Brain357 (Mar 1, 2018)

TomParks said:


> Does anyone remember before nafta? We had the highest period of economic growth under Reagan without it


We had stronger growth under Clinton...


----------



## debbiedowner (Mar 1, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> debbiedowner said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



You are.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 1, 2018)

Ironically, Trump's own buildings have been made with imported steel for decades.


----------



## deanrd (Mar 1, 2018)

dudmuck said:


> Worked great back in 2002:
> _The protection of the steel industry in the United States had unintended consequences and perverse effects: it reduced production of steel in the United States,[how?] increased costs to users, and increased unemployment in associated industries. A study from 2003 found that around 200,000 jobs were lost as a result.[6][7]_
> I wonder what Trump tower is built from?
> _
> And Obama's chinese tires._


You gotta say "Obama" something and then provide a link from 2002?

Makes no sense.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 1, 2018)

Brain357 said:


> Estimates of job losses in steel-using industries as a consequence of the safeguard tariffs imposed in the early 2000s are few but range from 26,000 to 200,000 jobs. It is difficult to know how many steel-producing jobs were saved, but a Peterson Institute report assessing various policy proposals floated before the Bush safeguards went into force suggests that it was between 3,000 and 10,000 jobs.
> 
> Will Steel Tariffs put U.S. Jobs at Risk? | Econofact


I doubt it.  Steel just doesn't constitute that big a percentage of the cost of most products.  You turds had no problem with Obama imposing massive costs on industry with his so-called "Clean Power Plan," but now we're supposed to believe you are worried about tariffs on a couple of minor products? How much do you imagine tripling the cost of energy would raise the price of steel and aluminum?


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

Brain357 said:


> Estimates of job losses in steel-using industries as a consequence of the safeguard tariffs imposed in the early 2000s are few but range from 26,000 to 200,000 jobs. It is difficult to know how many steel-producing jobs were saved, but a Peterson Institute report assessing various policy proposals floated before the Bush safeguards went into force suggests that it was between 3,000 and 10,000 jobs.
> 
> Will Steel Tariffs put U.S. Jobs at Risk? | Econofact





What do you think of the EU behavior with supporting Airbus and crushing high tech American jobs, and refusing to stop?


----------



## TomParks (Mar 1, 2018)

A Chinese billionaire may have hidden 6% of the world's aluminum in the Mexican desert


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

TheOldSchool said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...





I live in the Rust Belt. We have not bought up the rest of the world. 


THey have fucked US.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 1, 2018)

Well the DOW is down more than 400 points, and for the next few days, as the economy goes to hell, the Trumpettes will explain to us why that is a GOOD thing.


----------



## eddiew37 (Mar 1, 2018)

Vandalshandle said:


> Ironically, Trump's own buildings have been made with imported steel for decades.


does he really own them  or just his name on them?


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 1, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > Ironically, Trump's own buildings have been made with imported steel for decades.
> ...



A lot of both.


----------



## Brain357 (Mar 1, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Estimates of job losses in steel-using industries as a consequence of the safeguard tariffs imposed in the early 2000s are few but range from 26,000 to 200,000 jobs. It is difficult to know how many steel-producing jobs were saved, but a Peterson Institute report assessing various policy proposals floated before the Bush safeguards went into force suggests that it was between 3,000 and 10,000 jobs.
> ...



Are you aware of sometime that tariffs weren’t a disaster?   Please share.


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

Vandalshandle said:


> Well the DOW is down more than 400 points, and for the next few days, as the economy goes to hell, the Trumpettes will explain to us why that is a GOOD thing.




What's the problem?

If trade deficits don't matter, than why fight US?

Just give US what we want, and when it doesn't change anything you can tell US you told US so.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 1, 2018)

TomParks said:


> Does anyone remember before nafta? We had the highest period of economic growth under Reagan without it



Do you mean, this Reagan?

Ronald Reagan on AK-47s


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 1, 2018)

Brain357 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, the United States in the 19th century.


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

Vandalshandle said:


> TomParks said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone remember before nafta? We had the highest period of economic growth under Reagan without it
> ...





It is not right for you to sully his name by using it.


----------



## TomParks (Mar 1, 2018)

Correll said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > TomParks said:
> ...



Well they lost the argument so they deflect to guns


----------



## dudmuck (Mar 1, 2018)

deanrd said:


> dudmuck said:
> 
> 
> > Worked great back in 2002:
> ...


This is two separate tariff actions:
Bush: Steel in 2002 
Obama: Tires in 2009.
Tariff actions like these hurt the consumer more than helping the supplier.


----------



## usmbguest5318 (Mar 1, 2018)

bendog said:


> Xelor said:
> 
> 
> > > President Trump announces new tariffs: 25% for steel, 10% for aluminum
> ...


Was what I wrote and what is written at the linked sites not clear enough for you to figure that out on  your own?  

I can't tell whether you're being serious or sarcastic.  Just in case you're actually being serious, here are the "puzzle pieces" you need to answer that question with regard to the tariff's contribution to the price of your next Lexus.  I have emboldened the key principles and facts that one must consider (place in a "decision tree," if you will) to arrive at an answer for any given product.  I didn't nor will I walk through an enumeration of the impact on any specific product.



Xelor said:


> rather than putting a tariff on value-added products, *finished goods*, he taxes *raw materials*, thus ensuring that the economic impacts of the tariff flows through the entire supply chain





Xelor said:


> since Trump wants to impose *the tariff on raw materials*, *it'll raise* not only the price of steel and aluminum *in the U.S.*, but also *the price of everything made from that steel and aluminum.*





Xelor said:


> As for who will bear *the incidence of the tax/tariff*, well, that depends on the *elasticity of demand* and the *elasticity of supply* for each given product class, and in some instances, each differentiable product.





Xelor said:


> Effects of a Tariff: *Large Country*.....*When a large importing country implements a tariff it will cause an increase in the price of the good on the domestic market and a decrease in the price in the rest of the world*.


FWIW, the only thing I didn't note in my prior post is the one economic consideration that I figured folks would suss on their own, that being that insofar as consumers see myriad other vehicles as substitutes for a Lexus, the elasticity of demand for any Lexus is sure to be predominantly elastic, though not perfectly elastic, rather than predominantly inelastic.

It's important to note that product price increases are functions of a number of things, a tariff being but one.  As noted, you can use the information above, along with some additional research if you desire to perform a more precise calculation [1], to determine what qualitative impact the tariff will have.


Note:

Other germane data you'll need and that is not implied in the emboldened text above, are, among other things, the specific provisions of the tariff.


----------



## Missourian (Mar 1, 2018)

The Derp said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > not if they change sources to American manufacturers.
> ...



Why not?


----------



## debbiedowner (Mar 1, 2018)

Correll said:


> TheOldSchool said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



This is just a tax increase bud whether you live in the rust belt or east coast.

'The president is proposing a massive tax increase': Conservatives tee off on Trump for tariff move


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

debbiedowner said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > TheOldSchool said:
> ...




The Free Traders conservative have been proven wrong by the history of the last 30 years.


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 1, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


> Should we allow other countries like communist China to dump steel in the U.S. killing jobs for American workers? That's what liberals in this thread are saying. If China dumping steel into the U.S. was hurting illegals the liberals would be in an uproar.



There is no evidence of that. Actually you are taking the liberal position. You are saying what liberals are saying.


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> BluesLegend said:
> 
> 
> > Should we allow other countries like communist China to dump steel in the U.S. killing jobs for American workers? That's what liberals in this thread are saying. If China dumping steel into the U.S. was hurting illegals the liberals would be in an uproar.
> ...




Why is the US constantly having massive trade deficits, with nearly all of our partners?


----------



## undertherqadar (Mar 1, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611


Bend over rubes, the US doesn't have the capacity right now to produce steel, prices will be going up on consumer goods, the steel plants that were closed don't have working coke furnaces, you can't restart them


Market Realist


----------



## debbiedowner (Mar 1, 2018)

Correll said:


> debbiedowner said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



You know I am 70 years old and I do not live in the past, I live for the future and right now the future does not look to bright if I am to higher prices for just about everything. To many of you oldster's like trump live in the 50's and 60's except for the tweeting. It's 2018 things have changed.


----------



## debbiedowner (Mar 1, 2018)

undertherqadar said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> ...



Who the hell would they hire anyway? Most of those that did work in the steel industry are old and retired or dead not to mention we're considered at full employment in the U.S.


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

undertherqadar said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> ...




We've lost the ability and know how to make steel? Geez, who's idea was that?


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 1, 2018)

Correll said:


> The Derp said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



American steel producers will raise their prices. That always happens when tariffs are imposed. DUMBASS!!


----------



## TheOldSchool (Mar 1, 2018)

Correll said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > BluesLegend said:
> ...


Because we’re crazy rich and we want the rest of the world’s stuff


----------



## debbiedowner (Mar 1, 2018)

I'm done here if trumpies want to pay higher prices so be it and he won't be reelected if he's still around in 2020.


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

debbiedowner said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > debbiedowner said:
> ...





If you are that old, then you remember. 

Was this the way Free Trade was supposed to work, ie we would always lose, and the working poor and middle class would never again advance economically?


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 1, 2018)

Correll said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



The reason for that is we are a nation of consumers. Other countries are not. We have a much smaller savings rate than most nations.


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

debbiedowner said:


> undertherqadar said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...




I'm sure there are plenty of good men flipping burgers who would be willing to learn a better job.


----------



## Rustic (Mar 1, 2018)

Xelor said:


> > President Trump announces new tariffs: 25% for steel, 10% for aluminum
> 
> 
> Good, lord.  So rather than putting a tariff on value-added products, finished goods, he taxes raw materials, thus ensuring that the economic impacts of the tariff flows through the entire supply chain.  That's brilliant.  NOT!!!  It's flat-out stupid.
> ...


Progressives know nothing about a good economy they just care about free shit


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

TheOldSchool said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...




That's not why the EU subsidized Airbus, to the loss of thousands of very high tech, high paying jobs. 


They couldn't compete, so they cheated and benefited their workers and their economies at the expense of ours.


I want those jobs back for America and Americans. 


This was not the way Free Trade was supposed to work.


----------



## undertherqadar (Mar 1, 2018)

Grab ankles trumplers 

Trump's steel and aluminum tariffs will mean fewer goods "Made in America"


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > theDoctorisIn said:
> ...




Or maybe the fix is in.


Either way, if it does not benefit US, why are we doing it?


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

undertherqadar said:


> Grab ankles trumplers
> 
> Trump's steel and aluminum tariffs will mean fewer goods "Made in America"





We know what leads to fewer goods made in America.


What we have been doing for the last 50 years.


----------



## Weatherman2020 (Mar 1, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611


And the market took a dump because of it. 

Other ways to help the steel industry.


----------



## undertherqadar (Mar 1, 2018)

So trump is picking winners and losers, seem i have heard that used against another president


----------



## Missourian (Mar 1, 2018)

I'm not an economist,  but I'll give you the small businessman's perspective.  I have a trucking company.  I can easily compete with other trucking companies that have equivalent costs to my own...that is all American companies AND all Canadian companies.  But,  you throw Mexican companies into the mix,  now I am at a significant disadvantage...as a Mexican driver can work for about half of what an American or Canadian can live on,  because the cost of living is lower in Mexico than the US and Canada.

In a business where a 5 cent per mile (cpm) discount makes a huge impact on freight contracts,  and a Mexican company is getting a 15 cpm reduced labor rate,  the Mexican company is actual making more profit than I am,  even though they are charging less,  and getting more contracts.  You can see the eventual endgame...I either close my doors,  or move my headquarters to Mexico and hire all Mexican drivers in order to compete.

And that is why we don't have a free market trucking industry and why Mexico was held to a 100 mile from Mexican border zone for 10 years after NAFTA was signed.  Today,  Mexican trucks and Canadian trucks can haul freight out of their respective countries into the U.S. and U.S. freight back to their respective countries.

This is why I understand the need for Tariffs.  What we need is fair trade...and that means fair to the American worker,  not just businesses.  Democrat claim to be in favor of that...but for partisan reason,   block attempts to level the playing field.

As long as American companies are forced to compete against a colossal wage disparity,  high taxes,  worker safety regulations,  a litigious society and government bureaucracy,  there is no way to compete against foreign companies other that for our own companies to move overseas.

We would be beyond foolish to retreat on worker safety,  litigation is not going to be reduced in any meaningful way,  government bureaucracy isn't going away...and unless Americans want to live in shanty towns and eat rice and beans,  we can't reduce our cost of living.

So what,  if not tariffs...fair tariffs that mitigate the higher costs American companies face...is the solution?

Serious responses only please...partisan hackery will be dismissed out of hand.


----------



## BluesLegend (Mar 1, 2018)

RealDave said:


> BluesLegend said:
> 
> 
> > Should we allow other countries like communist China to dump steel in the U.S. killing jobs for American workers? That's what liberals in this thread are saying. If China dumping steel into the U.S. was hurting illegals the liberals would be in an uproar.
> ...



What like our immigration laws? Come over here you won a Bennie Hill pat on the head


----------



## BluesLegend (Mar 1, 2018)

debbiedowner said:


> BluesLegend said:
> 
> 
> > Should we allow other countries like communist China to dump steel in the U.S. killing jobs for American workers? That's what liberals in this thread are saying. If China dumping steel into the U.S. was hurting illegals the liberals would be in an uproar.
> ...



Killing American jobs is why you bunch of dummies lost the election.


----------



## BluesLegend (Mar 1, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> BluesLegend said:
> 
> 
> > Should we allow other countries like communist China to dump steel in the U.S. killing jobs for American workers? That's what liberals in this thread are saying. If China dumping steel into the U.S. was hurting illegals the liberals would be in an uproar.
> ...



I see I struck a nerve, not surprising.


----------



## del (Mar 1, 2018)

*Dow closes more than 400 points lower after Trump says steel and aluminum tariffs coming*

Dow closes more than 400 points lower after Trump says steel and aluminum tariffs coming

winning


----------



## Norman (Mar 1, 2018)

Xelor said:


> > President Trump announces new tariffs: 25% for steel, 10% for aluminum
> 
> 
> Good, lord.  So rather than putting a tariff on value-added products, finished goods, he taxes raw materials, thus ensuring that the economic impacts of the tariff flows through the entire supply chain.  That's brilliant.  NOT!!!  It's flat-out stupid.
> ...



As typical, what you forgot to look at is how the policy compares to the alternative: taxing Americans. Typical of Trump haters to only look at the negatives without even noticing the positives and how the policy will generate revenue like you haven't seen before.

I would say, Trump's idea kicks the hell out of taxing Americans. The wall needs to be paid, and this is a brilliant way for getting Mexico to pay for it.

Great again...


----------



## CowboyTed (Mar 1, 2018)

Correll said:


> TheOldSchool said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



If I remember correctly Ryanair (one of Europe's largest airlines) ordered 100s of Boeings over the years which is US government backed

Ryanair orders 100 Boeing 737s
"For Boeing, in financial difficulties for the last quarter, 85% of the deal will be guaranteed by the US government."

These types of deals have continued for years... Ryanair runs an almost all new fleet.

Now here is the problem...





That is Germany and it is high end steel US imports which it has trouble producing themselves.... Look where china is...

The Limits of 'Made in America' Economics

"The E.U. has sworn to fight back if the Trump White House goes ahead and is reportedly already preparing measures, such as levies on American whiskey, rum, orange juice, potatoes, and tomatoes."

*This was just stupid...*


----------



## koshergrl (Mar 1, 2018)

Brain357 said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> ...



You saying that just convinces me that Trump nailed it.


----------



## MikeK (Mar 1, 2018)

Xelor said:


> *Effects of a Tariff: Large Country*
> 
> 
> 
> ​



These diagrams have made very clear the reason why I don't have a lot of money.  I find them to be absolutely baffling and somewhat intimidating.  

As for Trump's action, it seems to me he's put a lot of laid-off steel-workers back to work.​


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 1, 2018)

Correll said:


> debbiedowner said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Correll, your job at Fruit of the Loom underwear is not coming back, no matter what Trump does.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow (Mar 1, 2018)

Vandalshandle said:


> Opps! looks like the price of Uncle Donnie's wall just went up 25%



"So I'll pick up a nicer bigger check from Mexico this weekend!  See you soon!"
\


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> ...




Like what?


----------



## CowboyTed (Mar 1, 2018)

Missourian said:


> I'm not an economist,  but I'll give you the small businessman's perspective.  I have a trucking company.  I can easily compete with other trucking companies that have equivalent costs to my own...that is all American companies AND all Canadian companies.  But,  you throw Mexican companies into the mix,  now I am at a significant disadvantage...as a Mexican driver can work for about half of what an American or Canadian can live on,  because the cost of living is lower in Mexico than the US and Canada.
> 
> In a business where a 5 cent per mile (cpm) discount makes a huge impact on freight contracts,  and a Mexican company is getting a 15 cpm reduced labor rate,  the Mexican company is actual making more profit than I am,  even though they are charging less,  and getting more contracts.  You can see the eventual endgame...I either close my doors,  or move my headquarters to Mexico and hire all Mexican drivers in order to compete.
> 
> ...



Tarriffs don't work... It just raises prices on US consumers, Republicans knew this years before Democrats and Democrats conceded that years ago.

What does work is deals like TPP, TPP was to address all countries working condition including pay. This is similar to the way the EU worked a few decades ago... It makes the cheaper countries pay higher wages and respect environmental laws,  health and safety,.... This evens the playing filed but also creates a market in there country too... Over a generation US companies would be selling to Vietnam...

Look at NAFTA, Canada is US second highest exporter and Mexico third... If US helped stabilise Mexico (i.e. stop buying drugs and selling them black market guns, illegal but still happening) they would be easily your biggest trading partner...

It was Republicans who first said trade is good for both sides, they were right then and it is right now...


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

Missourian said:


> I'm not an economist,  but I'll give you the small businessman's perspective.  I have a trucking company.  I can easily compete with other trucking companies that have equivalent costs to my own...that is all American companies AND all Canadian companies.  But,  you throw Mexican companies into the mix,  now I am at a significant disadvantage...as a Mexican driver can work for about half of what an American or Canadian can live on,  because the cost of living is lower in Mexico than the US and Canada.
> 
> In a business where a 5 cent per mile (cpm) discount makes a huge impact on freight contracts,  and a Mexican company is getting a 15 cpm reduced labor rate,  the Mexican company is actual making more profit than I am,  even though they are charging less,  and getting more contracts.  You can see the eventual endgame...I either close my doors,  or move my headquarters to Mexico and hire all Mexican drivers in order to compete.
> 
> ...





This is very good, but ignores that fact that European nations are also kicking our ass. And the Japanese. ANd the South Koreans.


EVERYONE is fucking US.


Because the goal of their Trade POlicies are their national interest where ours are driven equal parts by Free Trader Ideologues and Globalist Ideologues, neither of which give a damn about American workers,


----------



## Weatherman2020 (Mar 1, 2018)

Correll said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...


Regulation reductions, tax breaks. 

What Trump just said is growth in the construction industry and goods made here just took a big cost hit. The goal should be to lower our costs.


----------



## undertherqadar (Mar 1, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


> debbiedowner said:
> 
> 
> > BluesLegend said:
> ...




So dorks, china and europe say they will now cut buying ag products from the US, how will that workout for the flyover crowd


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 1, 2018)

What is it about "full employment" that Trumpettes do not understand. We currently have full employment, and companies are having a hard time finding decent workers. That's what all that bonus crap was about after the tax cut. So, virtually everyone who wants a job has one, and Trump wants to tax Americans by raising consumer prices to create more jobs for people who either already have a job, or don't want a job.

Jesus on a bicycle, are Trumpettes that dumb?


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 1, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



You think that steel workers and auto plant workers and all the other manufacturing jobs are going to illegal aliens?


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

Vandalshandle said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > debbiedowner said:
> ...




Your use of the Logical Fallacy of Proof by Ridicule is noted and accepted as an tacit admission that you cannot refute what I said.

THe answer is no, this was not the way the Free Trade Policy was supposed to work.


It has failed. The reasons are debatable. The failure is not.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 1, 2018)

undertherqadar said:


> BluesLegend said:
> 
> 
> > debbiedowner said:
> ...



Mexico has already cut purchases of wheat from the US, because of the NAFTA threats, and are starting to buy it from Brazil.


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

Vandalshandle said:


> What is it about "full employment" that Trumpettes do not understand. We currently have full employment, and companies are having a hard time finding decent workers. That's what all that bonus crap was about after the tax cut. So, virtually everyone who wants a job has one, and Trump wants to tax Americans by raising consumer prices to create more jobs for people who either already have a job, or don't want a job.
> 
> Jesus on a bicycle, are Trumpettes that dumb?




The part that an economy that produces all the burger flipping jobs you can want, is not a win.


----------



## Weatherman2020 (Mar 1, 2018)

Vandalshandle said:


> What is it about "full employment" that Trumpettes do not understand. We currently have full employment, and companies are having a hard time finding decent workers. That's what all that bonus crap was about after the tax cut. So, virtually everyone who wants a job has one, and Trump wants to tax Americans by raising consumer prices to create more jobs for people who either already have a job, or don't want a job.
> 
> Jesus on a bicycle, are Trumpettes that dumb?


Same when Obama crushed the economy with his regulations. Only then it was the unemployed faced with higher costs.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 1, 2018)

Correll said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



It is NOT ridicule. The world economy dictates that each country produce what they can produce most efficiently. It is the natural law. They make underwear in the Philippines. We make computer chips.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 1, 2018)

Correll said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > What is it about "full employment" that Trumpettes do not understand. We currently have full employment, and companies are having a hard time finding decent workers. That's what all that bonus crap was about after the tax cut. So, virtually everyone who wants a job has one, and Trump wants to tax Americans by raising consumer prices to create more jobs for people who either already have a job, or don't want a job.
> ...



My town is FULL of burger joints begging for people to work for them. All they can get are untrained late teenagers. There are no more underemployed people flipping burgers. McDonald is starting to automate everything including the order process. I was at one this morning, and ordered by computer.


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

CowboyTed said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > TheOldSchool said:
> ...




That one deal does not change the fact of Airbus supports, nor the mindset that it reveals in their governments.


They are out to fuck US, and they have been doing so.


If their response to US refuses to be their bitch is to blow up world trade,

so much for them being the mature ones.


And what is the problem? I thought Trade Deficits didn't matter?


So what are they pissed off about?


Seems they think that trade surplus matter to them.


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

Vandalshandle said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...




The WTO Airbus rulings show that is not the case. 


The mindset of the EU government was to use government supports to benefit their companies and their workers, and to do so by fucking American companies and workers.


That was not about some Invisible Hand, but them fixing the game.


And I doubt that it was an aberration.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 1, 2018)

Correll said:


> CowboyTed said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Your argument is equivalent to a man holding a gun to his head, and shouting, "Stop, or I will shoot!"


----------



## mikegriffith1 (Mar 1, 2018)

And, gee, I thought Trump was in Putin's hip pocket? Russia stands to lose a bunch of money because of Trump's steel tariff.


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

Vandalshandle said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...




That's a good sign. 


But the Middle Class has years of stagnation to make up for. 


I want to see decades of rapidly rising wages to make up for the decades of shit.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 1, 2018)

I can only take so much of teaching 9th grade economics before I get burned out, I am now burned out............


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

Vandalshandle said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > CowboyTed said:
> ...






You didn't answer the question.


If Trade Deficits don't matter, than why are our trading partners threatening retaliation?


Seems they really want those trade surpluses they have had with US for so long.


Seems they think trade balance matters.


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

mikegriffith1 said:


> And, gee, I thought Trump was in Putin's hip pocket? Russia stands to lose a bunch of money because of Trump's steel tariff.




It's almost like the shit libs say, is just total shit.


----------



## hazlnut (Mar 1, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611




Car and aircraft companies stocks took a dip today -- any company that depends on steel and aluminum will be forced to raise prices and their stocks will drop.

Funny, where are all the Libertarians quoting Ayn Rand when you need them.  If u.s. steel and aluminum were quality products at a competitive prices, people wouldn't need to import.

BTW - the import business, shipping, transport are also going to be hurt by this.

Why should companies be forced to pay more money for lower quality?  Just because it's Made In America?  I support buying American, but when it's my choice and for a product that doesn't need to be in shop all the time.

And the Rx companies have also manipulated the law, forbidding us from shopping for the best price on meds.

So much for a "free market" and consumer buying power.


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

hazlnut said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> ...





Sorry that paying your employers a reasonable wage is so offensive to you.


----------



## BluesLegend (Mar 1, 2018)

undertherqadar said:


> BluesLegend said:
> 
> 
> > debbiedowner said:
> ...



Typical response from you people, we should just bend over and let China screw us? Talk to the hand you gutless nancy


----------



## ABikerSailor (Mar 1, 2018)

Stock market is in the green, Trump opens his mouth and threatens tariffs and the possibility of a trade war.  Stocks drop sharply and close down 420 points for the day. 

Wonder what's gonna happen tomorrow?

And, if the stock market drops again tomorrow, do you think Trump will change his mind and back down?


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 1, 2018)

As usual GOP voters are Mindless drones... No principles no knowledge unbelievable. GOP did this in the twenties, they never learn.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow (Mar 1, 2018)

Filthy Don is a financial knucklehead with failed businesses and 8 bankrupcies..and now begging for loans from overseas.   

He has to remember that other countries can also raise tarriffs and buy steel from China and Japan who also invest or partially own steel plants here in the USA. 

It may add or lose a few thousand jobs depending how decisions are made in the company boards.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow (Mar 1, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


> undertherqadar said:
> 
> 
> > BluesLegend said:
> ...



How are the Chinese screwing?   Please break it down.    Chinese and Japanese investments in our steel industry is huge.


----------



## Missourian (Mar 1, 2018)

undertherqadar said:


> That is Germany and it is high end steel US imports which it has trouble producing themselves.... Look where china is...
> 
> The Limits of 'Made in America' Economics
> 
> ...



Except Germany imports their steel too.

Germany is the world’s second-largest
steel importer. In year-to-date
2017 (through September), further
referred to as YTD 2017, Germany
imported 20.8 million metric tons of steel, a 6 percent increase from
19.5 million metric tons in YTD 20
16. Germany’s imports represented
about 7 percent of all steel imported globally in 2016. The volume of
Germany’s 2016 steel imports was just
over 4 million metric tons less
than that of the world’s largest impo
rter, the United States.

https://www.trade.gov/steel/countries/pdfs/2017/q3/imports-germany.pdf​So,  are we getting German Steel,  or steel made in China,  exported by German?

I dabble in blacksmithing and tool making...I know many of the German steel companies outsource to China.





How China put German rust-belt city on the map



​


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow (Mar 1, 2018)

As of 2017, the largest sources of net steel imports to the US were, in descending order, Canada, Brazil, South Korea, Mexico, Russia, and Turkey.[12]

These countries could easily buy steel from China and Japan at lower costs.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow (Mar 1, 2018)

francoHFW said:


> As usual GOP voters are Mindless drones... No principles no knowledge unbelievable. GOP did this in the twenties, they never learn.



Filthy Don extent of business is flapping his mouth into the breeze like a windsock.....Hence, his failed casinos, steak ventures, construction, and Universitity $25M lawsuit.

I'm sure he's also ready to pick up that wall check from Mexico like he promised 14 months ago.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Mar 1, 2018)

Haha....dumbass Trump doesn't even understand tariffs....


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Mar 1, 2018)

francoHFW said:


> As usual GOP voters are Mindless drones...


Actually, the GOP has come out strongly against this move.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow (Mar 1, 2018)

Trump is trying to work another UnitedTech/Carrier bogus deal.    

Hey, Filthy Don, are the 1000 Carriers getting their jobs backs after your mad negotiating deals take place.


----------



## Missourian (Mar 1, 2018)

Missourian said:


> undertherqadar said:
> 
> 
> > That is Germany and it is high end steel US imports which it has trouble producing themselves.... Look where china is...
> ...





 

Top 10 Steel Producing Countries In The World


----------



## sealybobo (Mar 1, 2018)

dudmuck said:


> Worked great back in 2002:
> _The protection of the steel industry in the United States had unintended consequences and perverse effects: it reduced production of steel in the United States,[how?] increased costs to users, and increased unemployment in associated industries. A study from 2003 found that around 200,000 jobs were lost as a result.[6][7]_
> I wonder what Trump tower is built from?
> _
> And Obama's chinese tires._


I remember the Bush’s flooded the market too with cheap Chinese tires


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow (Mar 1, 2018)

This tarriff is aimed at Canada and Mexico who supplies us with most of the metal products we import.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop (Mar 1, 2018)

*GOP Meltdown Over Trump’s Plan for Tariffs
*
*who could have predicted that President Cuckoo J. Alzheimers would royally fuck up everything at random*
*So ... it's OK to sell out the United States to Russia and the White House to the highest bidder. But raising tariffs makes Republicans break ranks and "meltdown"?
Fuck you, Republicans. You are traitors no matter how you cut it.















*
 







 Anthony Bourdain *✔*  @Bourdain 

I have a hard time picturing Spambo running towards anything that’s not a Fixins Bar or a buffet

 2:43 AM - Feb 27, 2018


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 1, 2018)

The Dow lost 576 points after his announcement.   It was up and looking good when he had to open his mouth.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop (Mar 1, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> The Dow lost 576 points after his announcement.   It was up and looking good when he had to open his mouth.


They know other countries will retaliate and appeal to the WTO ... World Trade Organization...Trump is a natural born Fuck up


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow (Mar 1, 2018)

In other words, Filthy Don just proposed more goverment subsidies in our awesome capitalist nation.   So much for bootstrapping.


----------



## OnePercenter (Mar 1, 2018)

CrusaderFrank said:


> How about a tariff on Illegals?



How about arrest, trial, convection, and jail for employers knowingly hiring illegals.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Mar 1, 2018)

OnePercenter said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > How about a tariff on Illegals?
> ...


How about No, because our economy is more important than your bigotry and neuroses.


----------



## OnePercenter (Mar 1, 2018)

Brain357 said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > So much for the free market conservatives.
> ...



From the conservative created United States of Corporate America.


----------



## del (Mar 1, 2018)

mikegriffith1 said:


> And, gee, I thought Trump was in Putin's hip pocket? Russia stands to lose a bunch of money because of Trump's steel tariff.



your confusion is caused by thinking trump is a rational actor.


----------



## OnePercenter (Mar 1, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> OnePercenter said:
> 
> 
> > CrusaderFrank said:
> ...



How would enforcing current law be "bigotry and neuroses?"


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

ABikerSailor said:


> Stock market is in the green, Trump opens his mouth and threatens tariffs and the possibility of a trade war.  Stocks drop sharply and close down 420 points for the day.
> 
> Wonder what's gonna happen tomorrow?
> 
> And, if the stock market drops again tomorrow, do you think Trump will change his mind and back down?





I thought trade balance didn't matter. Why would our trading partners care about this?


It if doesn't matter, just give US what we want, and we can all live happily ever after.


What's the problem?


----------



## otto105 (Mar 1, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611



Sure, start a trade war. 

Why hasn’t he required US for major government projects or better yet properties that he is involved in.


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

francoHFW said:


> As usual GOP voters are Mindless drones... No principles no knowledge unbelievable. GOP did this in the twenties, they never learn.





In the twenties we were huge exporters and the trade war cost US our massive trade surpluses.


Today, it would be the opposite.


Our trading partners are the ones that are making money at our expense.


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > As usual GOP voters are Mindless drones...
> ...





That doesn't matter to Franco.


Like the vast majority of lefties, no matter what, he just attacks those who oppose his agenda.


Facts don't matter.


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 1, 2018)

Missourian said:


> I'm not an economist,  but I'll give you the small businessman's perspective.  I have a trucking company.  I can easily compete with other trucking companies that have equivalent costs to my own...that is all American companies AND all Canadian companies.  But,  you throw Mexican companies into the mix,  now I am at a significant disadvantage...as a Mexican driver can work for about half of what an American or Canadian can live on,  because the cost of living is lower in Mexico than the US and Canada.
> 
> In a business where a 5 cent per mile (cpm) discount makes a huge impact on freight contracts,  and a Mexican company is getting a 15 cpm reduced labor rate,  the Mexican company is actual making more profit than I am,  even though they are charging less,  and getting more contracts.  You can see the eventual endgame...I either close my doors,  or move my headquarters to Mexico and hire all Mexican drivers in order to compete.
> 
> ...



You sound partisan. What about the industries that use steel and aluminum. You want to screw them. The consumers who will pay higher prices for these products. You want to screw them. Trump put tariffs on Canadian plywood used in building homes. The prices have skyrocketed and there is a shortage. This will add approximately $8,000 to the price of a home. 

What is preventing companies from using Chinese steel to build the products over there and importing them here?


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> dudmuck said:
> 
> 
> > Worked great back in 2002:
> ...





So, if cheap imports were bad then, are they good now?


----------



## Correll (Mar 1, 2018)

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> In other words, Filthy Don just proposed more goverment subsidies in our awesome capitalist nation.   So much for bootstrapping.





You trying to say you are in favor of Free Market capitalism, or are you just spewing shit?


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 1, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > BluesLegend said:
> ...



I am a Reagan conservative. You sound like a Bernie Sanders liberal. I find it interesting when liberals like yourself claim to be a conservative.


----------



## Crixus (Mar 1, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611




Hope you don’t mind drinking beer from plastic bottles. Loooots of ahit is made from steel and aluminum. Hope you don’t make any plans for that trump tax money.


----------



## otto105 (Mar 1, 2018)

TheOldSchool said:


> BluesLegend said:
> 
> 
> > Should we allow other countries like communist China to dump steel in the U.S. killing jobs for American workers? That's what liberals in this thread are saying. If China dumping steel into the U.S. was hurting illegals the liberals would be in an uproar.
> ...



Liberals have been saying forever that we need fair trade.


You conservatives are just taking the hard orange pole up the ass on trump’s trade announcement.

Conservatives pushed NAFTA, outsourcing and any free trade agreement they could sign until trump won in 2016.


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 1, 2018)

Norman said:


> Xelor said:
> 
> 
> > > President Trump announces new tariffs: 25% for steel, 10% for aluminum
> ...



You are economically illiterate. Since you are generally illiterate, it is not surprising. It is a tax on Americans. Businesses pass the increased cost on to consumers. This led to the depression in the 1920s.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow (Mar 1, 2018)

Our production was very inefficient.  Production yields weren't very good.


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 1, 2018)

Correll said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


Funny how the GOP just keeps doing this kind of crap which kills regular Americans. And you dupes just keep voting for them.


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 1, 2018)

francoHFW said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


You Dupes thinking you have facts is hilarious. You vote for the GOP because you believe crap like the rich pay too much in taxes, Hillary Obama the foundation etc etc are evil and corrupt, we have the best Healthcare in the world, Democrats are Big Spenders and have big deficits because of their policies, there was no 2008 depression, our economy sucked under Obama but it's great now LOL, blacks and the poor are lazy. Change the God damn Channel racist conspiracy Nut Job morons...


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 1, 2018)

Correll said:


> CowboyTed said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Free trade has made us one of the most prosperous countries in the world. In the 1980s the economy grew at 5%.  Trade wars are not good for business or Americans. Why are you so eager to punish Americans?

Boeing is one of the largest recipients of government subsidies so they are not pure.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow (Mar 1, 2018)

Correll said:


> TheMoreYouKnow said:
> 
> 
> > In other words, Filthy Don just proposed more goverment subsidies in our awesome capitalist nation.   So much for bootstrapping.
> ...



Filthy Don is talking shit and it's very clear!


----------



## TyroneSlothrop (Mar 1, 2018)




----------



## basquebromance (Mar 1, 2018)

"Toyota says U.S. tariffs on steel, aluminum will raise costs, therefore prices of cars and trucks sold in America"

Reuters Politics on Twitter


----------



## deanrd (Mar 1, 2018)

WTO hands Obama victory in U.S.-China steel case

President Obama on Enforcing Trade Rules: What You Need to Know

Obama takes parting shot at China with WTO aluminium case

Trump is on the side of Russia.  Maybe he's on the side of Russia AND China.  Doesn't he owe hundreds of millions of dollars to China?


----------



## Tom Horn (Mar 1, 2018)

Xelor said:


> > President Trump announces new tariffs: 25% for steel, 10% for aluminum
> 
> 
> Good, lord.  So rather than putting a tariff on value-added products, finished goods, he taxes raw materials, thus ensuring that the economic impacts of the tariff flows through the entire supply chain.  That's brilliant.  NOT!!!  It's flat-out stupid.
> ...



Hey pinhead.....China has been dumping below-cost steel and other metals on us for over a decade.  Not only will it not raise prices, it will lower prices due to increased volume by American producers.  All your charts and graphs prove is that you don't understand the impact of tariffs.  China can't pay both shipping costs and a 25% duty on their items without raising their price above American steel and aluminum.


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 1, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > CowboyTed said:
> ...


5%? Well you have no idea what you're talking about, super dupe. And he tripled the debt...


----------



## basquebromance (Mar 1, 2018)

"The President is proposing a massive tax increase on American families. Protectionism is weak, not strong. You'd expect a policy this bad from a leftist administration, not a supposedly Republican one." - Supercilious Ben Sasse

"i don't know that President Trump should apologize to anyone for protecting American workers and certainly not to Senator Sasse" - Sarah Hogan Sanders


----------



## basquebromance (Mar 1, 2018)

Trump’s Tariff Folly

WSJ savages Trump!


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Mar 1, 2018)

OnePercenter said:


> How would enforcing current law be "bigotry and neuroses?"



That's not what I said, pay attention!  Is English your first language?

I am saying that the cost of doing what you suggest  -- to all of us-- is not worth the only significant benefit, which is to cater to your bigotry and neuroses.


----------



## basquebromance (Mar 1, 2018)

"Steel and aluminum tariffs are corporate welfare. They benefit the few through a tax imposed on all Americans." - Wacky Justin Amash


----------



## TomParks (Mar 1, 2018)

Same never trump cocksuckers still at it I see......Trump is shoring up the union vote you know what democrats did years ago when they actually cared about Americans


----------



## basquebromance (Mar 1, 2018)

All these "principled" conservatives tout the very 'free' trade that has hollowed out our manufacturing jobs and created trade deficits with practically the entire planet. But we can buy cheaply made shit!


----------



## Lakhota (Mar 1, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611



Yep, there goes your tax break - and maybe more.


----------



## BluesLegend (Mar 1, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> BluesLegend said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...



You don't know what a conservative is, let me guess you watch Juan Williams every night /mocking sarcasm


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 1, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> "Toyota says U.S. tariffs on steel, aluminum will raise costs, therefore prices of cars and trucks sold in America"
> 
> Reuters Politics on Twitter



The price for a ton of steel is about $140.  If it takes one ton of steel to make a car, how much will a 25% increase in the price of steel increase the price of the car?   

Answer:  $35.


----------



## JBond (Mar 2, 2018)

Brain357 said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > So much for the free market conservatives.
> ...


----------



## OKTexas (Mar 2, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611




Not a good move, cheaper materials allow American companies to compete in a world market.


.


----------



## OnePercenter (Mar 2, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> OnePercenter said:
> 
> 
> > How would enforcing current law be "bigotry and neuroses?"
> ...



What would be the cost?


----------



## Old Rocks (Mar 2, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> All these "principled" conservatives tout the very 'free' trade that has hollowed out our manufacturing jobs and created trade deficits with practically the entire planet. But we can buy cheaply made shit!


84% of the jobs in manufacturing that have gone away are due to automation, not companies moving out. And given the hatred you Trumpanzees have for Musk, Tesla and Space X, you are total hypocrites.


----------



## mikegriffith1 (Mar 2, 2018)

Every time any politician or business leader suggests protective tariffs, the globalists trot out the argument that it will start a "trade war" and will "cost us jobs." Really? Then how come China, one of the most protectionist nations on Earth, has had growth that has nearly doubled ours for a long time? How come America did so well when we followed ardently protectionist policies for decades, start with Abraham Lincoln?

And as for a "trade war," we have been in a "trade war" for decades--the globalists just don't want us to defend ourselves very much. Yes, we have some tariffs, but not to the degree that many other nations have. And, by the way, look at the industries that we do somewhat protect with tariffs, such as sugar--they are doing well.


----------



## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

Thank you Mr. President and it’s about time.
Administration Action on Steel and Aluminum Vital to Protecting National Security


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > "Toyota says U.S. tariffs on steel, aluminum will raise costs, therefore prices of cars and trucks sold in America"
> ...



It will cost more than that (possibly $800-$900 a car) being that steel makes half the weight of the car....either case car manufacturers will demand suppliers to lower their prices on say a set of car seat, a set of glass (windshield, sidelights,backlights) or even tires to offset any other increase prices of the vehicle.  So other industries are affected by the tariff.


----------



## frigidweirdo (Mar 2, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611


 
But a silly campaign promise. One that will HURT the USA. So he's basically gone and stopped America being great, so he's broken a campaign promise at the same time.

I mean, you get a monkey with a typewriter and make them write promises, and then put them in the White House, at some point they're going to fulfill a campaign promise.


----------



## frigidweirdo (Mar 2, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Thank you Mr. President and it’s about time.
> Administration Action on Steel and Aluminum Vital to Protecting National Security



There's a difference between protecting the US from unfair trade practices, which I agree with, and slapping tariffs on items which will force others to do the same back. 

He's not put the tariffs on steel against the EU because there was some sort of problem between the EU and US on steel. He's done it because the EU exports more to the US than the US exports to the EU.






But putting this tariff in place doesn't redress this balance. It merely takes US business that isn't able to be that competitive, and gives it a boost, while hurting EU business in the US. 






EU exports of steel aren't that great. About 20 million tons. So it's not going to make that much of a difference, other than increase the price of steel, which means US companies who use steel will have to pay more, which makes them less competitive.


----------



## sealybobo (Mar 2, 2018)

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > dudmuck said:
> ...


No


----------



## Mac1958 (Mar 2, 2018)

Well, Trump sure found a cool way to step on the market's throat with this one.


.


----------



## JLW (Mar 2, 2018)

The moron in chief tweeted this morning that trade wars are good and that they are easy to win.

Trump's administration has shown itself and, now more than ever, a big cluster you know what.

To safe himself he shows himself willing to throw this nation, it's people and is economy under the bus to stay in power.

Trump is not a patriot but a putz.


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Mar 2, 2018)

Protectionism built our heavy industry from Britain dumping here, and we need to do the same thing regarding Chinas cheap shit.


----------



## Mac1958 (Mar 2, 2018)

Trump:  "Trade wars are good and easy to win"


----------



## Correll (Mar 2, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Weatherman2020 said:
> ...





Sorry, I don't buy that regulations and taxes is why the freaking EU has a trade surplus with US.


----------



## Correll (Mar 2, 2018)

Johnlaw said:


> The moron in chief tweeted this morning that trade wars are good and that they are easy to win.
> 
> Trump's administration has shown itself and, now more than ever, a big cluster you know what.
> 
> ...





I thought that trade deficits don't matter.


So, why would our trade partners care?


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Mar 2, 2018)

Mac1958 said:


> Trump:  "Trade wars are good and easy to win"



Well everyone loses in a full blown trade waqr until their economies adjust to the new Monetarian regime.


----------



## Mac1958 (Mar 2, 2018)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Trump:  "Trade wars are good and easy to win"
> ...


Jim, just when it looked like we were returning to normal after 10 freakin' years, he tosses this stink bomb into the mix.  

He stomped right on the market's throat when we were all ready to go.  I'm speechless here.
.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 2, 2018)

mikegriffith1 said:


> Every time any politician or business leader suggests protective tariffs, the globalists trot out the argument that it will start a "trade war" and will "cost us jobs." Really? Then how come China, one of the most protectionist nations on Earth, has had growth that has nearly doubled ours for a long time? How come America did so well when we followed ardently protectionist policies for decades, start with Abraham Lincoln?
> 
> And as for a "trade war," we have been in a "trade war" for decades--the globalists just don't want us to defend ourselves very much. Yes, we have some tariffs, but not to the degree that many other nations have. And, by the way, look at the industries that we do somewhat protect with tariffs, such as sugar--they are doing well.



I just love how the isolationist always being up Lincoln when talking about tariffs.  Because the world has not changed at all since the days of Lincoln.  When Lincoln was president it took longer to get across the country than it does for a ship to go from China to the US.

You people need to quit living in the past, the world has passed you by.


----------



## Correll (Mar 2, 2018)

Vandalshandle said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...




Except we don't. Not as much as we used to, and less every year. And why? 


Are American workers stupid and lazy?  


No.

"In many ways, however, the IM Flash plant is an outlier. While companies based in the United States still dominate chip sales worldwide, only about 13 percent of the world’s chip manufacturing capacity was in this country in 2015, down from 30 percent in 1990, according to government data."



"Chip makers attribute the decline to a variety of forces, including high American tax rates and the hefty subsidies offered by foreign governments for new semiconductor plants, which can cost as much as $10 billion."




Jeez, other government subsidize manufacturing to get trade surpluses.


But...


I thought trade balance didn't matter.


----------



## Correll (Mar 2, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> mikegriffith1 said:
> 
> 
> > Every time any politician or business leader suggests protective tariffs, the globalists trot out the argument that it will start a "trade war" and will "cost us jobs." Really? Then how come China, one of the most protectionist nations on Earth, has had growth that has nearly doubled ours for a long time? How come America did so well when we followed ardently protectionist policies for decades, start with Abraham Lincoln?
> ...




Explain what has changed in the world that means that letting other countries take our jobs is not a problem and does not hurt our citizens.

Especially as we can see how it has hurt our citizens.


----------



## Correll (Mar 2, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> The Dow lost 576 points after his announcement.   It was up and looking good when he had to open his mouth.





The market doesn't care about the plight of the American worker.


Our corporations have adjusted to the unfairness of the trading environment so that they can make money while America gets fucked.

 Any change to an environment they have adjusted to, will be a problem for them.


But they are not the be all and end all of this nation.


----------



## Correll (Mar 2, 2018)

otto105 said:


> TheOldSchool said:
> 
> 
> > BluesLegend said:
> ...




Maybe if you lefties didn't wrap your complaints about globalism up with hefty doses of anti-Americanism, you would have had more luck selling your policies in AMERICA.


And, don't forget, Bill Clinton signed NAFTA, and Hillary was set on keeping it.


----------



## Correll (Mar 2, 2018)

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Our production was very inefficient.  Production yields weren't very good.




Bullshit.


----------



## Correll (Mar 2, 2018)

francoHFW said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...





The "Free Trade" policies that have made US the world's bitch on trade have has strong, constant bi-PARTISAN support for decades.

Trump didn't create the Rust Belt. The policies of the last 50 years have.


This is the US finally doing SOMETHING in response to the obvious fact that World Trade is slanted against US.


----------



## Correll (Mar 2, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > CowboyTed said:
> ...




Boeing gets shit compared to what Airbus got. 


The actions of the european government in the Airbus case shows that they are operating from a mindset of pure economic nationalism.


The idea that our trade deficits are a result of natural market forces is absurd.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 2, 2018)

Correll said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > mikegriffith1 said:
> ...



What a changed world means is that when it took months for goods to get here from across the oceans tariffs were an effective means of control, now when my son can order clothing straight from China and be wearing them in two weeks, tariffs lose their power. 

How does a country "take jobs" from another country?  

Also, here are the top 5 steel sources for the US...

*1.* Canada
*2.* Brazil
*3.* South Korea
*4.* Mexico
*5.* Russia

are those places taking our jobs?

And this for aluminum

*1.* Canada
*2.* Russia
*3.* United Arab Emirates
*4.* China

What the hell did Canada do to us and why is Trump attacking them?


----------



## Correll (Mar 2, 2018)

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > TheMoreYouKnow said:
> ...





Yeah, we all noticed that you were unable to answer the question.

In doing so, you did answer.


You are just spewing shit.


----------



## eddiew37 (Mar 2, 2018)

Correll said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


As the world retaliates against us, and our allies are driven into China's hands  GREAT work you POS trump    and with higher prices his tax cuts are null and void


----------



## Correll (Mar 2, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> "The President is proposing a massive tax increase on American families. Protectionism is weak, not strong. You'd expect a policy this bad from a leftist administration, not a supposedly Republican one." - Supercilious Ben Sasse
> 
> "i don't know that President Trump should apologize to anyone for protecting American workers and certainly not to Senator Sasse" - Sarah Hogan Sanders




The Free Traders had their chance. They blew it.


----------



## Correll (Mar 2, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> "Steel and aluminum tariffs are corporate welfare. They benefit the few through a tax imposed on all Americans." - Wacky Justin Amash




The Free Traders had their chance. They failed.


----------



## Correll (Mar 2, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...





Why?


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 2, 2018)

Old Rocks said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > All these "principled" conservatives tout the very 'free' trade that has hollowed out our manufacturing jobs and created trade deficits with practically the entire planet. But we can buy cheaply made shit!
> ...


Which is why China’s FoxConn has over 500,000 prisoners.


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 2, 2018)

I do not understand economics-------I am not even sure how
and why  "INTEREST"  works------I cannot AMORTIZE  even
with a slide rule.    What will tariffs on metals do TO ME?


----------



## MrShangles (Mar 2, 2018)

Mac1958 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Mac1958 said:
> ...



Everyone one was ready to go except steel workers, now they can enjoy America first for a change.
We will pay more for products made in America, 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mac1958 (Mar 2, 2018)

MrShangles said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...


There is a significant downside to this.  The bond market is confirming that.

I'm only hopeful that this is just a first step in a negotiation process, because his reasoning so far is at a third grade level.
.


----------



## Crixus (Mar 2, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Thank you Mr. President and it’s about time.
> Administration Action on Steel and Aluminum Vital to Protecting National Security




And what’s the bonus for We American consumers?   Will we maybe pay more for cars? The tariffs are on aluminum to. Lots of shit is going to cost more because we know American steel manufacturers will jack up prices even though the shit is made right here. So aside from union hacks east of the Mississippi, how does this bennifet me, a non union consumer of products made of steel and aluminum? And why no tariff of food products and beef from south of the border and lumber north of the border? What's the net plus for consumers of those products who will also be affected by the tariffs on steel and aluminum?


----------



## Moonglow (Mar 2, 2018)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Protectionism built our heavy industry from Britain dumping here, and we need to do the same thing regarding Chinas cheap shit.


Where is the tariff on Trump Enterprises cheap shit that is imported?


----------



## Moonglow (Mar 2, 2018)

Mac1958 said:


> MrShangles said:
> 
> 
> > Mac1958 said:
> ...


Not according to his ass sucking faun club, they think it's g-r-e-a-t!


----------



## eddiew37 (Mar 2, 2018)

Correll said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > "Steel and aluminum tariffs are corporate welfare. They benefit the few through a tax imposed on all Americans." - Wacky Justin Amash
> ...


Trumps tax cuts are now null and void,  he put a dagger into the hearts of the middle class the poor and ALL those using steel,  cars planes etc etc etc  Steel industry ALREADY benefit  thru lower taxes


----------



## Moonglow (Mar 2, 2018)

Crixus said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you Mr. President and it’s about time.
> ...


What's dumb is the US has imported chromium ever since stainless steel was created, we don't have  the raw materials...South Africa is the world's leading producer....


----------



## Moonglow (Mar 2, 2018)

MrShangles said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...


Then raise the minimum wage it's only fair...


----------



## deanrd (Mar 2, 2018)

The price of anything using steel or aluminum will skyrocket which will cause great damage to our economy.
Direct orders from Vladimir.
The same thing happened before which led to Hitler.


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 2, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...



????  we use steel and aluminum made in china for our
cars   ??


----------



## Care4all (Mar 2, 2018)

CAPTAIN CHAOS is at it again.....trying to deflect from his own woes......


----------



## Moonglow (Mar 2, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


> Should we allow other countries like communist China to dump steel in the U.S. killing jobs for American workers? That's what liberals in this thread are saying. If China dumping steel into the U.S. was hurting illegals the liberals would be in an uproar.


What's worse is Trump Enterprises that has its manufacturing base in China,, is flooding the market with their cheaply made products that are killing American jobs!


----------



## Moonglow (Mar 2, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> eddiew37 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


Hardly...


----------



## Moonglow (Mar 2, 2018)

Anything to get the social media from ripping on fearless Trump tweets...


----------



## Moonglow (Mar 2, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> So much for the free market conservatives.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


You also knew that to be a lie along with their concerns over the debt....


----------



## debbiedowner (Mar 2, 2018)

Correll said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



How much do you think the Union's had a part in the creating the Rust Belt, I am from one of those states and in 1990 one of big 3 plants had one of the biggest drug rings operating out of it and the UAW kept most of their jobs. Let's don't put the total blame on government. I have or had no problems of someone making $25.00 per hour back then or rather $37 with benefits but by god they needed to work for that in which most did not but rather bragged about working about 3 hours out of an 8 hour shift, getting high, sleeping half their shifts and loving the overtime that they didn't have to do anything. So don't blame the government. NAFTA woke up the unions and the American worker and now you cry, should have worried back then.


----------



## Moonglow (Mar 2, 2018)

debbiedowner said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


That's the neat thing about retirement, you don't have to work and you still get paid...


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 2, 2018)

debbiedowner said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


Yeah, because CEOs who meet at banquets and barbecues aren’t in reality unions and that’s why they’re making 300 times the average professionals salaries.
Grow up.


----------



## deanrd (Mar 2, 2018)

Tom Horn said:


> Xelor said:
> 
> 
> > > President Trump announces new tariffs: 25% for steel, 10% for aluminum
> ...


Wrong.  What is it Obama won at the WTO?
How many times do I have to post the same damn links? Don’t you guys ever read?


----------



## debbiedowner (Mar 2, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> debbiedowner said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



What is a reality union?


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 2, 2018)

debbiedowner said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > debbiedowner said:
> ...


CEOs have their own private “Union”.
You think it’s a coincidence that dozens of Wall Street firms can lay off 100,000 people on the same day without discussing it beforehand?


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 2, 2018)

Moonglow said:


> Anything to get the social media from ripping on fearless Trump tweets...



am still befuddled.    If we do not use CHINESE steel
and aluminum in building OUR CARS------or other fancy
stuff------how is a tariff AFFECTING ME?    I thought that
tariff would affect lousy substandard Chinese knives and
screw drivers


----------



## basquebromance (Mar 2, 2018)

"We must protect our country and our workers. Our steel industry is in bad shape. IF YOU DON’T HAVE STEEL, YOU DON’T HAVE A COUNTRY!" - President Trump


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 2, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > Anything to get the social media from ripping on fearless Trump tweets...
> ...


You would understand If you worshipped your Stock Portfolio and didn’t give a shit about anybody but yourself.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 2, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > Anything to get the social media from ripping on fearless Trump tweets...
> ...



Because the tariffs are not just on China, but every country that sends us steel.   Do you ever read anything for yourself?  

Fuck this board is filled with so many uninformed people it is almost scary.


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 2, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...



sorry ----your answer is NOT satisfactory----I is still
befuddled


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 2, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


In reality, any answer provided will only be theoretical.


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 2, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...



thank-you------your response is a bit more elucidating------
Is the problem that things made with steel will now COST
more for us average middle class slobs?


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 2, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


GG’s answer is pure theory.


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 2, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



THAT  ^^^^ is comforting in a mystical way


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 2, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


Spurring an industry is far more complex than any diagram in a PDF.
And no industry exists in a vacuum from other industries.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 2, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



They will and the countries that we now slapped tariffs one will retaliate with their own actions.

This move by Trump fucks over Canada more than any other country as we get the most from them. 

What the fuck has Canada done to us to rate Trump going after them?  Is Canada stealing our jobs, what the hell ever that means?


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 2, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



so true------THAT ^^^^^  is why I do not understand economics------too many variables


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 2, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...


America has lots of untapped resources.
More employment, more taxes, more innovation, etc...


----------



## basquebromance (Mar 2, 2018)

""Trade wars are lost by both sides. Kooky 18th century protectionism will jack up prices on American families...If the President goes through with this, it will kill American jobs...So much losing." - Supercilious Ben Sasse


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 2, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...



I wish the white house would supply a justification in simple
language-------JUSTIFICATION FOR DUMMIES


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 2, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


Economics is a *soft* discipline.
*Nobody* can predict the actual ramifications of *any* economic policy.


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 2, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> ""Trade wars are lost by both sides. Kooky 18th century protectionism will jack up prices on American families...If the President goes through with this, it will kill American jobs...So much losing." - Supercilious Ben Sasse



are you sure?


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 2, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


What has globalization done for the US?
17+ trillion in debt.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 2, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



There really is not one, this is just Trump trying to suck up to his base.


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 2, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



oh-----in school-----my fortes were math, chemistry and
physics---------the questions have ANSWERS.   Economics
seemed to me------silly------like intro to baby psych


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 2, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...



You cannot blame that on globalization, that was all us.  We as a country choose to live beyond our means, the world is not making us do it. 

globalization does not make us spend more than the next 8 countries on "defense".


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 2, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


Economists need a paycheck also.
After all, how will Dick Cheny and Warren Buffet get wealthier?


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 2, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



You are not too far off the mark.  But with economics recent history is a good judge of what will happen.


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 2, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


G “Retard” W globalized the hell out of the US.


----------



## Meathead (Mar 2, 2018)

Xelor said:


> Good, lord.  So rather than putting a tariff on value-added products, finished goods, he taxes raw materials, thus ensuring that the economic impacts of the tariff flows through the entire supply chain.


Are you honestly saying steel and aluminum are raw materials?

Three years of public schooling down the drain.


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 2, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



economists are in a class with clergy------faith based


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 2, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


Which means our *current* policies are a *disaster*.


----------



## basquebromance (Mar 2, 2018)

the head of the AFL-CIO Low Energy Rich Trumka has endorsed Trump's new tariffs


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 2, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> the head of the AFL-CIO Low Energy Rich Trumka has endorsed Trump's new tariffs



because it is PROTECTIONISM on USA jobs----right?


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 2, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



Yep, and have been for far too long


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 2, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > the head of the AFL-CIO Low Energy Rich Trumka has endorsed Trump's new tariffs
> ...


As opposed to protectionism for Investors.


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 2, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...



ok----seems to make sense to me----but so many INSIST
that Trump protects investors over us common slobs


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 2, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


That’s because our paid off Congress critters are funded by investors.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow (Mar 2, 2018)

Correll said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Corporate welfare.  Intel gets millions from Oregon to set up shop in Portland.

Of course the stipulations are to hire local.  But most talent comes from other states and overseas where they have skills to do the jobs that are demanded.

Good and bad in the situation.

Still auto plants are subsidies in the southern states too.


----------



## basquebromance (Mar 2, 2018)

President Trump erupts on twitter: "When a country Taxes our products coming in at, say, 50%, and we Tax the same product coming into our country at ZERO, not fair or smart. We will soon be starting RECIPROCAL TAXES so that we will charge the same thing as they charge us. $800 Billion Trade Deficit-have no choice!"


----------



## BluesLegend (Mar 2, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> the head of the AFL-CIO Low Energy Rich Trumka has endorsed Trump's new tariffs



Anyone with a brain would support them.


----------



## BluesLegend (Mar 2, 2018)

People, we have been in a trade war for DECADES. Other countries blatantly infringe on our patents, steal our IP, they go so far as to disassemble products manufactured in the U.S. and use them as molds for making cheap knocks offs after we spent all the money on R&D. They dump product and raw materials like steel and aluminum into the U.S. at cost even at a loss with the intentional purpose of bankrupting US companies so they can take over our markets.

Meanwhile they do not reciprocate, they do everything they can to keep the U.S. out of their markets. Do we just sit here like a punching bag and let them destroy U.S. manufacturing?


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 2, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > Anything to get the social media from ripping on fearless Trump tweets...
> ...


Trump tariffs and quotas have cost Americans lots of money on Timber and now Steel and aluminum. Canada's number one all that... The answer is what it always has been, to train our Workforce in high-tech jobs that pay, always blocked by the stupid GOP to save their precious greedy idiot Rich from paying their fair share.


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 2, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


> People, we have been in a trade war for DECADES. Other countries blatantly infringe on our patents, steal our IP, they go so far as to disassemble products manufactured in the U.S. and use them as molds for making cheap knocks offs after we spent all the money on R&D. They dump product and raw materials like steel and aluminum into the U.S. at cost even at a loss with the intentional purpose of bankrupting US companies so they can take over our markets.
> 
> Meanwhile they do not reciprocate, they do everything they can to keep the U.S. out of their markets. Do we just sit here like a punching bag and let them destroy U.S. manufacturing?



yes----trade war-----I remember that-----it was part of my
seventh grade education------almost 60 years ago----
with TARIFF in cartoon from-----some guy blocking a ship


----------



## debbiedowner (Mar 2, 2018)

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...



Talk about auto's I bought a 2011 auto made and assembled in SK by far outperformed the same exact model made in 2014 in Alabama which I have had nothing but trouble with and the paint job is already fading and chipping. Fuel mileage on 2011 was 41 mph in town and around 46 highway, 2014 in town 32 highway 41. Workmanship of one made in SK far more superior than one made in Alabama. Parts probably made overseas and shipped in just how and who assembled it.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...


Did you read what I wrote, moron?  Steel costs $140/ton. I doubt there is more than a ton of steel in a typical sedan.  If the price increases by 25%, that means it will only add $35 to the price of the car.


----------



## Baz Ares (Mar 2, 2018)

*Could this be INSIDER TRADING!? FFS! YES!*

----
Trump confidant dumped millions in steel-related stock last week
Billionaire investor and longtime Trump confidant Carl Icahn dumped $31.3 million of stock in a company heavily dependent on steel last week, just days before Trump announced plans to impose steep tariffs on steel imports.

In a little-noticed SEC filing submitted on February 22, 2018, Icahn disclosed that he systematically sold off nearly 1 million shares of Manitowoc Company Inc. Manitowoc is a “is a leading global manufacturer of cranes and lifting solutions” and, therefore, heavily dependent on steel to make its products.
-----

*The Great Douche will not pull the 25% tariff on steel.
But if IT does, that will make Icahn more money when he buys
these stocks again. Wher the short tariffs BS SCAM is removed.
The Great Douche is Tweeting to make money on shorting the market.*


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## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

Baz Ares said:


> *Could this be INSIDER TRADING!? FFS! YES!*
> 
> ----
> Trump confidant dumped millions in steel-related stock last week
> ...



"Steel related stock?"  probably half the stocks on the NYSE are "steel related."  You snowflake morons are so desperate to pin something on Trump that it's hilarious to watch the logical contortions you suffer as a result. 

The share price has been going down since mid-january.

Manitowoc Company, Inc. (The) (MTW) Stock Chart


----------



## Baz Ares (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Baz Ares said:
> 
> 
> > *Could this be INSIDER TRADING!? FFS! YES!*
> ...


True, for the outside trader. Carl is an insider trader with his still contacts with the Great Douche
For 14 month Carl trades buy and sells are done weeks before the Great Douche BS tweets about
an industry. Where the only thang that happens is stock movements. No new laws, no new EO's
Just Insider Trading BS!


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 2, 2018)

debbiedowner said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > So, the stock market is tanking, which is going to hurt his buddies at the country club, and the millionaire c congressman and senators, as well as retirees living on their investments. Meantime, the price of everything goes up, which, again, hurts American consumers, but help steel manufacturers. The price of new cars goes up, which hurts auto manufacturers, and dealers. China decides to start a trade war, which hurts everybody.
> ...


*The Bullies' Pulpit*

What the outsourcing GreedHead traitors are really preaching is, "What's best for the 1% is best for all you ungrateful Little People, too."


----------



## g5000 (Mar 2, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > the head of the AFL-CIO Low Energy Rich Trumka has endorsed Trump's new tariffs
> ...


BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

Spoken like a true blue liberal.

You mocked me when I predicted Trump would lead you pseudocons into the far left liberal cave.

And now look. Trump is proposing an assault weapons ban and a suspension of due process. Trump is proposing protectionist tariffs.

Trump has made you pseudocons into giant deficit Keynesians and pro-adultery. He's got pseudocons repeating the liberal line that Bush lied and people died. He's got them denying there were WMDs in Iraq. He's got them attacking law enforcement, a liberal favorite target. He's got pseudocons attacking our intelligence agencies which they used to salute for keeping us safe from terrorists. He's got pseudocons whining about "The Establishment", an old hippie favorite. He's got pseudocons admiring a KGB thug.

Wow!

I totally called it.

Next up, Trump will call for universal healthcare and you will support him.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 2, 2018)

TomParks said:


> Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin.......


*The Economic Bullies Call Trickledown "Gold Water"*

Being pissed on is the real reason the Rust Belt corroded.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 2, 2018)

debbiedowner said:


> TheMoreYouKnow said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



I was loyal to Chrysler, GM, and Ford for 45 years, until my last car, which was a Cadillac. Their Twin Star engine start burning about 1 qt of oil every 1,000 miles at 30,000 miles (This was a 2000 Eldorado). When I complained to the dealership, they told me this was normal. To prove it, they showed me the actual wording in the owner's manual saying just that. Then I met a guy who spent his career as a Master Mechanic at a Caddy dealership who told me that Caddy used that same engine for about 12 years, knowing that it had a design flaw causing this oil burn. He told me that it was a simple fix, but that they chose not to spend the money to recast the dies for the engine block. In addition to this, all the oil seals in the engine and transmission had to be replaced at 50,000 miles, and the A/C unit had to be overhauled three times before 87,000 miles.

Now, I drive a Honda.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 2, 2018)

g5000 said:


> BluesLegend said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...



Pro-adultery Keynesians? OMG! Not that!


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 2, 2018)

As of right now, the DOW is down another 223 points. 

Looks like we have another Herbert Hoover in the White House. But cheer up, folks, Trump is going to explain to us why tanking stocks and trade wars are GOOD for us!


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## basquebromance (Mar 2, 2018)

"There’s about 1 ton of steel in a car. The price of a ton of steel is $700 or so, so 25% on that would be one half of 1% price increase on the typical $35000 car. So it’s no big deal." - Low Energy Wilbur Ross


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## hazlnut (Mar 2, 2018)

We are a Golden Retriever.  Trump throws another tennis ball to keep us busy until next Friday.


a) Russia claims to have ICBMs capable of defeating our missile defenses.

b) Alec Baldwin is going to be on SNL.

Which one would any normal President be completely focused on and which one would any normal President be completely indifferent to...possibly not even aware of... given the magnitude of other?


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

Baz Ares said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Baz Ares said:
> ...



The share price is the share price.  Carl pays the same price as everyone else.  The stock started a precipitous decline 6 weeks ago, so there's hardly anything suspicious about him selling it towards the end of February.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 2, 2018)

debbiedowner said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > TheOldSchool said:
> ...


*Excise Tax on Plutocratic Parasites*

A tax increase only on Wall Street outsourcers.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> "There’s about 1 ton of steel in a car. The price of a ton of steel is $700 or so, so 25% on that would be one half of 1% price increase on the typical $35000 car. So it’s no big deal." - Low Energy Wilbur Ross



The chart I looked at said the price was $140 per metric ton.  Of course, auto makers use mostly rolled sheet steel, which may cost a little more


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## TheOldSchool (Mar 2, 2018)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> debbiedowner said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


A tax increase on everybody, which adversely affects the middle and lower classes.


----------



## Windparadox (Mar 2, 2018)

`
The backlash is starting - *Nations Threaten Retaliation for Trump’s Steel Tariffs Plan* - Americans will lose jobs over this stupid action by trump.
`
`


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 2, 2018)

undertherqadar said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> ...


*Men of Steel, Not Sissies in Suitcoats*


Tell that to the Japanese, whose plants were obliterated in World War II.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 2, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


> undertherqadar said:
> 
> 
> > BluesLegend said:
> ...



Why do you morons keep talking about China when dealing with steel imports...


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> "There’s about 1 ton of steel in a car. The price of a ton of steel is $700 or so, so 25% on that would be one half of 1% price increase on the typical $35000 car. So it’s no big deal." - Low Energy Wilbur Ross


----------



## dudmuck (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Baz Ares said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


It was suspicious to you guys when it happened under Obama.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 2, 2018)

Windparadox said:


> `
> The backlash is starting - *Nations Threaten Retaliation for Trump’s Steel Tariffs Plan* - Americans will lose jobs over this stupid action by trump.
> `
> `



I honestly think that Trump is having a nervous breakdown.


----------



## Desperado (Mar 2, 2018)

I have alwas thought recipricol trade tarrifs were a great idea.
We tax them what they tax us


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Mar 2, 2018)

Brain357 said:


> In greater detail, let’s summarize the outcomes from protectionist trade policy in the form of steel tariffs: 1) Domestic steelmakers will win with higher steel prices, higher profits and share prices (U.S. Steel’s stock has nearly doubled since January 1), and greater market share, but 2) Domestic steel-using manufacturers will lose because of higher input prices, lower profits, and possibly reduced sales and market share) and 3) Millions of American consumers and businesses will lose when they now pay higher prices for everything that contains steel, including cars, appliances, tractors, tools, construction materials, wind turbines, forklifts, pipelines, and airplanes.
> 
> 
> US steel tariffs: A case study in protectionism, economic losses on net, and 'legal plunder' - AEI



Say goodbye to the gains from that swell $1200 tax cut.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 2, 2018)

Yet another moronic move by the yellow scourge.  So he wants to punish the American people and our closest allies.  Why?  Because it came to him in a dream?  This guy is clueless.  It will hurt every American and Canadian more than anyone else.  Oh, and I almost forgot, South Korea as well.  Not to mention the inflationary nature of tariffs.   Every thing we buy that contains either material will go up in price and the cumulative effect will be awful.  Canned goods, cars, hell, every fuckin' thing we buy practically.  It will have an effect on interest rates too.  This guy just shoots from the hip without regard to consequences.  What a tool!  I hope the more sensible minds in Washington will talk to him and get him to shitcan this idiotic idea.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

dudmuck said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Baz Ares said:
> ...



In that example we have proof that they had the information before the event occured.  There's no proof that Icahn knew Trump was going to impose a tariff.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Mar 2, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> My conspiracy theory for the day:
> 
> If you were a globalist, what better way to push your agenda than to put a wolf in sheeps clothing in the White House to  talk about “merica first” and then to make America weaker economically and to weaken our position all around the world.
> 
> ...



He did attend in Davos recently.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > In greater detail, let’s summarize the outcomes from protectionist trade policy in the form of steel tariffs: 1) Domestic steelmakers will win with higher steel prices, higher profits and share prices (U.S. Steel’s stock has nearly doubled since January 1), and greater market share, but 2) Domestic steel-using manufacturers will lose because of higher input prices, lower profits, and possibly reduced sales and market share) and 3) Millions of American consumers and businesses will lose when they now pay higher prices for everything that contains steel, including cars, appliances, tractors, tools, construction materials, wind turbines, forklifts, pipelines, and airplanes.
> ...


I hardly think anyone is going to cry over $35.


----------



## MarathonMike (Mar 2, 2018)

If you haven't figured out Donald Trump's negotiation strategy yet, let me spell it out for you. His first move is ALWAYS over the top. That establishes a threshold from which he negotiates down giving his adversary the feeling they have won when he ends up getting the deal he wants.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Mar 2, 2018)

Correll said:


> The Derp said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...



No, dope. American steel still costs more. The effect will be the same.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



So you think it's that simple?  $35?  Man, you must have bathed in that koolade.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Mar 2, 2018)

TomParks said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Great,  Now extrapolate that to every product made from aluminum and steel.


----------



## Windparadox (Mar 2, 2018)

Vandalshandle said:


> I honestly think that Trump is having a nervous breakdown.



He's more concerned with keeping his bull shit promises than the effect it will have on other Americans. He is as craven as they come.
`


----------



## BluesLegend (Mar 2, 2018)

g5000 said:


> BluesLegend said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...



I have supported American manufacturing for decades you libwit hack


----------



## BluesLegend (Mar 2, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> BluesLegend said:
> 
> 
> > undertherqadar said:
> ...



Because we are talking about WAY more than just steel imports dummy.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Mar 2, 2018)

Correll said:


> TheOldSchool said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Or, your dependence on manufacturing jobs has fucked you.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 2, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > BluesLegend said:
> ...



I guess your lack of reading skills kept you from understand the title of the thread. 


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


----------



## BluesLegend (Mar 2, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> BluesLegend said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...



You realize a thread discussion frequently expands into a wider discussion, of course you do. Here have this for boring me with your nonsense


----------



## basquebromance (Mar 2, 2018)

"Breaking: EU's Juncker says the bloc will react to the proposed U.S. steel action with tariffs on motorcycles (Harley-Davidson), bourbon whiskey and blue jeans." 

Motorcycles, Bourbon Whiskey, & Blue Jeans is a country song!


----------



## basquebromance (Mar 2, 2018)

some folks are sayin Trump's tariffs will raise the cost of your beer!


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 2, 2018)

MarathonMike said:


> If you haven't figured out Donald Trump's negotiation strategy yet, let me spell it out for you. His first move is ALWAYS over the top. That establishes a threshold from which he negotiates down giving his adversary the feeling they have won when he ends up getting the deal he wants.



Does this mean that we should all thank god that we can't believe a word he says?


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 2, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> "Breaking: EU's Juncker says the bloc will react to the proposed U.S. steel action with tariffs on motorcycles (Harley-Davidson), bourbon whiskey and blue jeans."
> 
> Motorcycles, Bourbon Whiskey, & Blue Jeans is a country song!



Harley Davidson is already in trouble, in  that their sales have been dropping seriously due to their aging market. This could finish them off.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 2, 2018)

Well, there goes my vacation cruise in Australia this year.....


----------



## basquebromance (Mar 2, 2018)

Vandalshandle said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > "Breaking: EU's Juncker says the bloc will react to the proposed U.S. steel action with tariffs on motorcycles (Harley-Davidson), bourbon whiskey and blue jeans."
> ...



Harley Davidson is based in Wisconsin. hello, Paul Ryan!


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 2, 2018)

Missourian said:


> I'm not an economist,  but I'll give you the small businessman's perspective.  I have a trucking company.  I can easily compete with other trucking companies that have equivalent costs to my own...that is all American companies AND all Canadian companies.  But,  you throw Mexican companies into the mix,  now I am at a significant disadvantage...as a Mexican driver can work for about half of what an American or Canadian can live on,  because the cost of living is lower in Mexico than the US and Canada.
> 
> In a business where a 5 cent per mile (cpm) discount makes a huge impact on freight contracts,  and a Mexican company is getting a 15 cpm reduced labor rate,  the Mexican company is actual making more profit than I am,  even though they are charging less,  and getting more contracts.  You can see the eventual endgame...I either close my doors,  or move my headquarters to Mexico and hire all Mexican drivers in order to compete.
> 
> ...


*Smothering Suits*

I'll add that even slavishly cheap foreign labor has drained our economy of trillions.  Buying Third World junk depletes everybody's wealth, except for the business leeches who are too incompetent to get rich without this scheme. 

Another thing we are not allowed to think about is the quality of the management that leads to the necessity of making money by cheating.  The Postmodern Postwar American way of getting ahead puts inferior people in superior positions.  Our former economic dominance was created by people who started at the bottom and worked their way up, learning along the way all facts specific to their individual businesses.  In 1953, only two-thirds of CEOs had gone to college, and most of them were entitled tyrants who had inherited their positions.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Sure,dope. That is the only thing made from steel and aluminum.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 2, 2018)

Correll said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


*Never Negotiate Out of Fear; Always Force the Other Side to Negotiate Out of Fear*

Besides, real Americans don't back down because of what hostile foreigners might do to stop us from fighting back. Only sissies in suitcoats and buttboys for the bosses do that.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 2, 2018)

Hutch Starskey said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...



Yeah, all we have to do is look around our homes to see how many things we count on to live are made with steel or aluminum and their bi-products.  The list is never ending.  Not to mention the things we buy that come packaged in those materials and we just dispose of like cans etc.  The idea that trump sees this as a way to leverage China is ludicrous.   

We need China to aid with N Korea.  We need So Korea for the same reason.  Those that will be hurt most besides ourselves are allies we share borders with.  Canada and Mexico.  I question the motives behind this sudden declaration.  In which ways will he and his benefit from this?  Because it seems that's what motivates him primarily, always.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 2, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Yeah, all we have to do is look around our homes to see how many things we count on to live are made with steel or aluminum and their bi-products.  The list is never ending.  Not to mention the things we buy that come packaged in those materials and we just dispose of like cans etc.  *The idea that trump sees this as a way to leverage China is ludicrous.*



Especially since we get next to none of our steel from China.  Trump just declared a trade war with Canada and Brazil and is too stupid to know it.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 2, 2018)

OnePercenter said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > How about a tariff on Illegals?
> ...


*Anarcho-Capitalism Is a Capital Offense*

Those traitors belong to the same mafia that outsources and imports cheap foreign goods.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

debbiedowner said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...


You're making it apparent that you're the one who is stupid. China is totally dependent on exports to the USA.  A trade war is that last thing they want.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...


It turns out that the price of steel is actually around $500/ton, so the cost increase would be 25% of $500, or about $125.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 2, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, all we have to do is look around our homes to see how many things we count on to live are made with steel or aluminum and their bi-products.  The list is never ending.  Not to mention the things we buy that come packaged in those materials and we just dispose of like cans etc.  *The idea that trump sees this as a way to leverage China is ludicrous.*
> ...



Yeah, but is this just another bad idea from him ad hoc or is there something of personal value for him in this move?  With Trump, it's always a factor.  I'm sure the press will weed it out.  Thank goodness for the fourth estate.  He tries every day to disgrace them and to erode people's confidence in them but they keep pluggin' along.  In the end they will play a pivotal role in his downfall.  He can hate on them all he wants and it only serves to strengthen their resolve.  Same is true of Mueller and his team.  I just hope moves like this latest blunder won't take us all down first.  Stupid ass.  "Let's alienate all of our allies!"


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



This isn't just about one item, it's an accumulative effect of this terrible idea.  You don't understand that?


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

Hutch Starskey said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...


That is the thing with the largest amount of steel in it.   Appliances are made of steel, but they don't weigh anything near a ton.  Let's say 100 lbs of steel were used to make your washing machine.  How much would the tariff add to the cost?  $500 x 25% / 20 = $5.00.

These tariffs just aren't going to have that big of an impact on the economy.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


How does this "accumultive effect" work?   Please explain.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



I guess you simply don't have the mental capacity to see the big picture.

A car is not the biggest thing with steel, dope. How about bridges and skyscrapers. How much cost do you imagine is added for those?

Trump wants to do infrastructure but just upped the price tag considerably.  Truly dumb.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



Things we all count on that contain steel or aluminum.  Look around you and notice all the things in your home made from those materials.  Every one of those items will rise in price.  Even beer cans.  The effect on folks budget will be felt.  And, for what?   To punish our allies?


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 2, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...



One of our strongest allies to be specific.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 2, 2018)

Hutch Starskey said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...



Yeah, it's not only ourselves and what we consume but everything the govt consumes.  It will be passed on to all of us.  But narrow thinkers are his base and narrow thinkers will support this debacle.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

Hutch Starskey said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...



It's the biggest thing that most consumers buy.  Steel makes up a significant percentage of the composition of some buildings, but concrete is the major material used in building, and labor is the biggest cost.  Most bridges are built primarily with concrete these days.  The industry has moved away from steel because it needs to be painted constantly and is therefor a maintenance headache.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



You do understand that there is steel in the concrete, right?


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


A $5.00 price increase on a $1000 dollar washing machine?  I think we'll survive it.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

Hutch Starskey said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...


ROFL.  Yeah, it's about 10% steel by volume.


----------



## Reasonable (Mar 2, 2018)

Our allies are upset with the US becoming more of a isolationist country and these tariffs are going to cost the consumer big time in the pocketbook. 

Your measly tax cut was just voided, Trumpsters. Ha! 

Tipsy: That’s why I voted for him.


----------



## Reasonable (Mar 2, 2018)

This is reminiscent of Herbert Hoover’s policies which led to the Great Depression and the rise of fascism around the world.


----------



## Cossack1483 (Mar 2, 2018)

Good job.  Let's make nafta next.  Then , WEXIT.


----------



## william the wie (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...





bripat9643 said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



More importantly most steel and aluminum used in the US is recycled and the tariff affects Canada and Mexico the most so it is the best way to renegotiate NAFTA.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



You just refuse to see the big picture.  you asked me to explain the cummulative effect and then totally ignore the answer.  Here's a short list of things that will go up in price.  Computers (cases) printers, lamps, Cameras, scanners, tv's, appliances, cars, wire, cans, stereos, ipods, guns (you'll like that one) There are more things in your home that contain these materials than those that don't.  Tariffs are by their very nature inflationary and we can see that Markets are responding negatively on this news.  It's a bad idea, period.  I think I just wasted more of my time trying to get you to understand.  Right?


----------



## Syriusly (Mar 2, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611



Actually his campaign promise- among others was a huge tariff on China.

Note how the markets tumbled do this announcement? 

Between this and the threatened cancellation of NAFTA- this could get really ugly quick.

But you are right- this is what his voters wanted- a trade war with the rest of the world.


----------



## william the wie (Mar 2, 2018)

The Mexican and Canadian governments cannot survive without steel exports so they will increase subsidies. The cumulative effects will be felt there not here.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

Hutch Starskey said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


You need to learn simple math.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



It's not that simple, dope.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...


As I have explained, the price of these items will increase by a fraction of 1%.  That's hardly going to cause an economic collapse or impose a hardship on anyone.  It's far less onerous or harmful than Obama's "Clean Power Plan" would have been, but all you snowflake morons defended that.

Investors always overreact to any kind of news that might affect the stock market.  The drop that occured when Trump made his anouncement is temporary.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

Hutch Starskey said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...


Yeah, it is that simple, dumbass.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

Syriusly said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> ...


Can you quote Trump saying he was going to impose huge tariffs on China?  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .

I didn't think so.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Mar 2, 2018)

OnePercenter said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > OnePercenter said:
> ...


Food prices would rise immediately, for one. The size of our economy wwould be greatly reduced , as well.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 2, 2018)

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...


*The Bagmen Left Holding the Bag*

The corporate parasites will have to take a cut in profits instead.  Richlovers want us to believe that the amount of profit is set in stone, so that higher material costs or higher wages can only lead to higher prices.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 2, 2018)

Correll said:


> otto105 said:
> 
> 
> > TheOldSchool said:
> ...


*Whoever Is Born With a Silver Spoon in His Mouth Will Always Speak With a Forked Tongue*

Still more proof that Leftists are unconscious agents of the Right Wing they were born in.  They purposely push a disgusting agenda to trick us into voting for the overt Right.


----------



## MarathonMike (Mar 2, 2018)

Vandalshandle said:


> MarathonMike said:
> 
> 
> > If you haven't figured out Donald Trump's negotiation strategy yet, let me spell it out for you. His first move is ALWAYS over the top. That establishes a threshold from which he negotiates down giving his adversary the feeling they have won when he ends up getting the deal he wants.
> ...


No, what it means is he a brutally tough negotiator and understands the psychology of the deal better than anyone. We should all thank god he is negotiating on our behalf.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 2, 2018)

Correll said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


The Invisible Hand is the one picking our pockets.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 2, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...


*Me, Myself, and Ayn*

The profit-squeezers' economic Bible should have been titled _Narcissus Shrugged._


----------



## Moonglow (Mar 2, 2018)

MarathonMike said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > MarathonMike said:
> ...


Why yes we are seeing his negotiating powers through higher prices and taxes......Wow so that's what winning is like....


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 2, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


*The High and Mighty on a Hirewire*

Their comfortable static situation inevitably collapses.  It is not safe and stable, it is negatively dynamic.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 2, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


*Dunces Dangling Doodles*

Economists are toy rats for the fat cats to play with.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop (Mar 2, 2018)

* In retaliation for Trump tariffs Europe will target U.S. bourbon, bikes, blue jeans *


 Europe has drawn up a list of U.S. products from bourbon to Harley Davidson motorbikes on which to apply tariffs if U.S. President Donald Trump follows through on a plan to impose global duties on aluminum and steel.…


----------



## Moonglow (Mar 2, 2018)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...


Yes the mule does get tired and kicks...


----------



## TyroneSlothrop (Mar 2, 2018)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> *Whoever Is Born With a Silver Spoon in His Mouth Will Always Speak With a Forked Tongue*


----------



## Moonglow (Mar 2, 2018)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> * In retaliation for Trump tariffs Europe will target U.S. bourbon, bikes, blue jeans *
> 
> 
> Europe has drawn up a list of U.S. products from bourbon to Harley Davidson motorbikes on which to apply tariffs if U.S. President Donald Trump follows through on a plan to impose global duties on aluminum and steel.…


But it's going to increase US jobs especially during the reduction in manufacturing due to tariff wars...


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## TyroneSlothrop (Mar 2, 2018)

Moonglow said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> > * In retaliation for Trump tariffs Europe will target U.S. bourbon, bikes, blue jeans *
> ...


No collusion - NO COLLUSION! Didn't collude. No collusion!

No Trade war NO TRADE WAR...didn't trade war ...you are the Trade war


----------



## Moonglow (Mar 2, 2018)

I am just wondering what makes Trump more qualified to be president than a bum on the street? Just a billion dollars  nothing else is different...


----------



## william the wie (Mar 2, 2018)

MarathonMike said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > MarathonMike said:
> ...



As in Far East steel makers with existing plants in the US skyrocketed last night on the news of the tariffs. Savings from Japan, China, South Korea will pay to build plant and equipment in the US to bypass the tariffs. Borrowing Yen at a slight premium to the BOJ's 0.11% interest rate and similar stories throughout the Far East means a lot ($1-10T) of construction wages each year until the foreign direct investment plays out and a wage annuity about 5x the investment paid by the rapidly aging Far East. True most of that construction will be done with even more heavily subsidized steel from Canada and Mexico until those countries run out of money/have a massive taxpayers revolt.Cry me a river about that too.


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## Moonglow (Mar 2, 2018)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > TyroneSlothrop said:
> ...


That fat fuck has been shooting people in the back since day one as president..He has been playing "drop a hint on your competition in corporate America"....Making values dive or rise according to his words that he utters....


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## TyroneSlothrop (Mar 2, 2018)

In Retaliation for Trump's Plan, EU Leader Threatens Tariffs on Bourbon and Bluejeans
New York Times 39m ago
Trump steel tariffs: European Union gears up for trade war
BBC News 1h ago
Trump made tariff decision in a fit of anger: NBC News
CNBC 1h ago
Trump's 'Smart' Tariffs Don't Make Economic Sense
Featured The Atlantic 21h ago
Steel and Aluminum Jobs Don't Add Up to Much
Opinion Bloomberg 40m ago


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## TyroneSlothrop (Mar 2, 2018)

Moonglow said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...


Crazy Orange Lard ass is gonna crash America
10m ago


Trump's Steel, Aluminum Tariffs Could Raise Car, Beer And Candy Prices
NPR 37m ago



Trump's newest economic move could cause the price of everything from cars to beer to rise
Markets Insider 24m ago


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## Moonglow (Mar 2, 2018)

william the wie said:


> MarathonMike said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...


Tell that to the US gaming industry that died many years ago due to Japan subsidizing the industry driving all US companies out of business in the 1990's...Same with the animation industry....


----------



## Moonglow (Mar 2, 2018)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > TyroneSlothrop said:
> ...


He seeks to return to policies that were abandoned because the people abandoned them to increase trade......Something his negotiating skills has overlooked...


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## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 2, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


*The Gushers Will Become Tricklers*

If they continue with their snooty anti-Americanism, soon jurinalists won't have a pot to piss in.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop (Mar 2, 2018)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...


Piss on crazy Orange Ivan Trump
For a businessman, he has no idea how the market works. ~ Amy R




Stock market drops after Trump announces tariffs
The Dow declined nearly 400 points on Thursday after President Trump said his administration will impose tariffs on steel and aluminum imports next move.
money.cnn.com


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## Moonglow (Mar 2, 2018)

I just love the higher gas prices from the Trumpgas era..It has been announced get ready for higher gas prices.. Trump also wants to increase taxes and/or a mileage charge for taxation...Tax cuts my ass...Never has been a federal income tax cut without taxes and fees being raised in sectors termed as silent taxes...


----------



## Moonglow (Mar 2, 2018)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> The Sage of Main Street said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


How about the bond markets reaction to Trump's tariff announcement?

U.S. government bonds rallied Thursday after President Donald Trump announced he would impose tariffs on imports of steel and aluminum, which investors said could curb economic growth.

The yield on the benchmark 10-year U.S. Treasury note posted its biggest one-day decline since Sept. 5 to 2.802% from 2.870% Wednesday. Yields fall as bond prices rise.

U.S. Government Bonds Surge on Trump Tariffs

Don't worry folks, nothing to see here, just Trump working his magic...


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 2, 2018)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> The Sage of Main Street said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...



As of right now, the down is down 631 points since the Trump tariff announcement.


----------



## Moonglow (Mar 2, 2018)

So those little bonuses and wage increases of less than one percent are not going to go very far...


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## Moonglow (Mar 2, 2018)

The right seems oddly silent after what the president did for gun control and the tariff....


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## Sahba (Mar 2, 2018)

Trump thinks tariffs are helping US steel, which it does as a 'protected chosen winner' amongst all us consumer who are now 'picked loosers' & forced to spend more for every product and service that is remotely related to steel and aluminum.  The real hum dinger is that we have a long history of tariffs in this country, picking winners and loosers & in every case it has hurt the consumer public.


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## TyroneSlothrop (Mar 2, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> > The Sage of Main Street said:
> ...


winning


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## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

Moonglow said:


> william the wie said:
> 
> 
> > MarathonMike said:
> ...


I never realized that all the casinos in Vegas had shut down.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop (Mar 2, 2018)

Moonglow said:


> The right seems oddly silent after what the president did for gun control and the tariff....


Imagine having to defend Crazy Orange Ivan LOL
Take a peek at this slack jaw drooler
During an interview on Thursday’s edition of _Fox & Friends_, Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX) suggested that former FBI director Jim Comey’s harsh treatment of Hillary Clinton in the weeks leading up to the 2016 election is evidence that he was actually in the bag for her.


----------



## Moonglow (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > william the wie said:
> ...


Just the Trump ones....


----------



## william the wie (Mar 2, 2018)

The Wall Street underwriters have big problems. Stimulating FDI (Foreign Direct Investment) means that a lot of the nice fat fees they are used to getting will happen in foreign capital markets and in non-dollar currencies to boot.


----------



## Syriusly (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...



Is Brip a partisan idiot? I think so

Donald Trump Says He Favors Big Tariffs on Chinese Exports

_Donald J. Trump said he would favor a 45 percent tariff on Chinese exports to the United States, proposing the idea during a wide-ranging meeting with members of the editorial board of The New York Times._


----------



## Moonglow (Mar 2, 2018)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > The right seems oddly silent after what the president did for gun control and the tariff....
> ...


He certainly had no problem announcing his support for the Clintons for the past 25 years....Bill liked his tiny hands in his pockets...


----------



## TomParks (Mar 2, 2018)

Hopefully it's just the start of things to come.....time to tighten the screw a bit


----------



## Moonglow (Mar 2, 2018)

william the wie said:


> The Wall Street underwriters have big problems. Stimulating FDI (Foreign Direct Investment) means that a lot of the nice fat fees they are used to getting will happen in foreign capital markets and in non-dollar currencies to boot.


I have been told for years while doing preventive maintenance...Don't fix it if it ain't broken.....


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> > The Sage of Main Street said:
> ...



What's "the down?"


----------



## Moonglow (Mar 2, 2018)

TomParks said:


> Hopefully it's just the start of things to come.....time to tighten the screw a bit


Tighten the belt another notch....


----------



## TomParks (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...




Yeah it's temporary but will be fun once the market goes up again to see the lefts reaction....according to liberals the sky is falling


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## Moonglow (Mar 2, 2018)

TomParks said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


No  it won't when he announces that all imports will have a consumption tax added, except Trump Enterprise imports....


----------



## TyroneSlothrop (Mar 2, 2018)

TomParks said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...





*‘Stick to laundering Russian money’: Trump commerce secretary mocked over bizarre soup can TV segment*
Trump Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross on Friday went on CNBC to defend President Donald Trump’s newly announced plans to slap tariffs on foreign steel and aluminum — and he drew widespread ridicule for his boast about buying a can of Campbell’s Soup.


----------



## Moonglow (Mar 2, 2018)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> TomParks said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


Odd as it reminds me of _Onion_ material...


----------



## TyroneSlothrop (Mar 2, 2018)

*EU targets Harley Davidson, Levi's in Trump trade war*
Source: *Agence France-Presse *

The EU is drawing up retaliatory measures against leading US brands such as Levi's and Harley Davidson after US President Donald Trump threatened a trade war with plans for tariffs on steel and aluminium, European Commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker said Friday. 

But a top EU trade official said Trump still has a small chance to avoid a damaging global trade war and asked the US leader to reconsider his aims before he signed them into effect next week. 

"We will not sit idly when European industry and jobs are threatened," European Commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker said on the sidelines of a conference in Hamburg, Germany. 

"The EU is preparing import duties for US products including Harley-Davidson, Bourbon and Levi's jeans," his spokeswoman quoted him as saying on Twitter.” 
Read more: *EU targets Harley Davidson, Levi's in Trump trade war*


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 2, 2018)

Tom Horn said:


> Xelor said:
> 
> 
> > > President Trump announces new tariffs: 25% for steel, 10% for aluminum
> ...



You are the pinheaded moron as you clearly do not understand how tariffs work. American producers will not increase production. They will raise prices. That will cause either one of 2 things. Steel users will either raise prices or cut workers. Idiotic Trump supporters like you are sickening.


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 2, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> "The President is proposing a massive tax increase on American families. Protectionism is weak, not strong. You'd expect a policy this bad from a leftist administration, not a supposedly Republican one." - Supercilious Ben Sasse
> 
> "i don't know that President Trump should apologize to anyone for protecting American workers and certainly not to Senator Sasse" - Sarah Hogan Sanders



Sarah Hogan Sanders is a lying bitch. She claims to be a Christian but is a hypocrite. The fact is that Trump threw over 99% of Americans under the bus.


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 2, 2018)

TomParks said:


> Same never trump cocksuckers still at it I see......Trump is shoring up the union vote you know what democrats did years ago when they actually cared about Americans



He is throwing everyone else under the bus for politics. That is disgusting as you are.


----------



## Sahba (Mar 2, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> Tom Horn said:
> 
> 
> > Xelor said:
> ...


It is likely to result in more US steel jobs simply due to expansion (but not a whole lot more jobs).  Prices are going up, put that on the list with 'death & taxes'. That 1-2 K that you got back in your returns just got gobbled up & it's going to effect just about everyone; not just those buying a new F150 or putting an addition on their homes...


----------



## william the wie (Mar 2, 2018)

TomParks said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...





TomParks said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...



Well in a sense it is, at least for the left. The left went all in on slow growth being the new normal. Slow growth means low interest rates, real estate appreciation and cheap labor being replaced entirely by automation. This in turn creates an aristocracy masquerading as a wide open meritocracy. This is covered up with flat out lies such as Harvard being the best college in the country with its most successful alums being drop outs. In terms of life time returns net of student debt it is not even worth going to on a non-athletic scholarship. Trump's shake up will cause a crash in such high tone ripoffs.


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 2, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > BluesLegend said:
> ...



You don't know what a conservative is. You and Trump are parroting Bernier Sanders. I am parroting Ronald Reagan.


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 2, 2018)

mikegriffith1 said:


> Every time any politician or business leader suggests protective tariffs, the globalists trot out the argument that it will start a "trade war" and will "cost us jobs." Really? Then how come China, one of the most protectionist nations on Earth, has had growth that has nearly doubled ours for a long time? How come America did so well when we followed ardently protectionist policies for decades, start with Abraham Lincoln?
> 
> And as for a "trade war," we have been in a "trade war" for decades--the globalists just don't want us to defend ourselves very much. Yes, we have some tariffs, but not to the degree that many other nations have. And, by the way, look at the industries that we do somewhat protect with tariffs, such as sugar--they are doing well.



Because China has a lot of room to grow. If you have $1,000 and get another $200, you have 20% more. If you have $600 and get $200 more than you have 33% more. The person with the $1200 has more even though the person with $800 had higher growth. The US is a developed country while China is not. Also China uses public money to build things whether they are needed or not. Most of China's increased steel production will go to Chinese building projects.


----------



## eddiew37 (Mar 2, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


China holds 1,2 trillion in US bonds  What if trump pisses them off and they dump them??


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 2, 2018)

Correll said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > "The President is proposing a massive tax increase on American families. Protectionism is weak, not strong. You'd expect a policy this bad from a leftist administration, not a supposedly Republican one." - Supercilious Ben Sasse
> ...



We still have the highest standard of living in the world. Nothing was blown.


----------



## usmbguest5318 (Mar 2, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> Tom Horn said:
> 
> 
> > Xelor said:
> ...





Sahba said:


> *It is likely to result in more US steel jobs simply due to expansion (but not a whole lot more jobs).*  Prices are going up, put that on the list with 'death & taxes'. That 1-2 K that you got back in your returns just got gobbled up & it's going to effect just about everyone; not just those buying a new F150 or putting an addition on their homes...


Two words, one term:  cost-benefit.


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 2, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...



IPhones are just assembled in China. Parts come from all over the world including the US. The developers are in the US. Trade figures do not take this into account which is why they are mis-leading.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 2, 2018)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> TheMoreYouKnow said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



That'll be the day.  Corporations voluntarily giving up profits or not fighting like hell to pass on costs.


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 2, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > the head of the AFL-CIO Low Energy Rich Trumka has endorsed Trump's new tariffs
> ...



Anyone without a brain would support them and the fact that you support them proves that.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...




Hell he not only said that but accused China of currency manipulation.  Of course, once smart people told him the truth, he rescinded that stance.   Just like this shoot from the hip nonsensical idea.


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 2, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...


Your post is correct but it has zero to do with the myth of automation eliminating jobs.
If there's so much automation why are all the illegals and business visas needed?


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 2, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


China is so nice...they don't manipulate currency, they just work the poor to death.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 2, 2018)

Moonglow said:


> I am just wondering what makes Trump more qualified to be president than a bum on the street? Just a billion dollars  nothing else is different...



Well, the bum on the street has a better chance of being sane.


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



You sare a moron and have no clue what you are talking about.


----------



## Asclepias (Mar 2, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611


Get ready to see your small tax savings go up in smoke.


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 2, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> some folks are sayin Trump's tariffs will raise the cost of your beer!



Cans are made of aluminum so it will cost more to put beer in a can, They can do one of two things. Raise the price or cut costs by laying people off.


----------



## Syriusly (Mar 2, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



Whoever claimed that China is 'nice'? Lots of countries in the world are not 'nice'. 

But I have been to China- I have walked through factories in China- and in general- factory work in China has better working conditions than factories in some other countries such as Vietnam, India and Bangladesh- and have improved tremendously in the last 15 years.

Not because the Chinese government cares- but because of the pressures of competition for workers- and because Western companies have pressured manufacturers to improve conditions. 

Not that we have really ever cared too much about the working conditions in factories we buy from.....


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 2, 2018)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...



The trouble is that we are hurting Americans.


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...



Are you trying to be a real moron today?


----------



## Syriusly (Mar 2, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



The illegals are working in labor intensive jobs such as farms, slaughter houses and construction- all harder to automate though agriculture is working hard on doing so. 

The business visa's- well the one's for Trump's properties are for bar tenders and waitresses and maids- again not much automation there. 

The other ones- the tech ones- well they haven't automated coding that much yet.

But factory jobs? Yeah- they are automating the hell out of factory jobs- that is the only way that American factories can stay competitive with the cheap labor of third world factories.


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



You need to learn a lot more than simple math.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 2, 2018)

MarathonMike said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > MarathonMike said:
> ...



Apparently, he is not very good at negotiating with prostitutes. The last one we know about cost him $130,000.


----------



## TomParks (Mar 2, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Because what libs don't tell you automation is very expensive and requires 24/7 maintenance and engineering positions which are not cheap.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 2, 2018)

TomParks said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...



You are right, this automation shit will never catch on...


----------



## Cossack1483 (Mar 2, 2018)

No need for global blinders.  Close the doors and borders.  America Only.    Dissolve nafta.  WEXIT.

We'll negotiate on our terms.  If and when.  Fuck the foreign.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 2, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> TomParks said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



This automation myth is just a passing fad. I have it on good authority that  GM has programed their computers to put all of their robots on sale at Amazon next year.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 2, 2018)

Cossack1483 said:


> No need for global blinders.  Close the doors and borders.  America Only.    Dissolve nafta.  WEXIT.
> 
> We'll negotiate on our terms.  If and when.  Fuck the foreign.



...and remember the Trumpettes' slogan, "And we won't stop until we bring back 1904 economics!!"


----------



## Wry Catcher (Mar 2, 2018)

Vandalshandle said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > "Breaking: EU's Juncker says the bloc will react to the proposed U.S. steel action with tariffs on motorcycles (Harley-Davidson), bourbon whiskey and blue jeans."
> ...



Q.  Who is their target

A.  McConnell (Whiskey) and Ryan (Motorcycles)


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 2, 2018)

Wry Catcher said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...




...and we haven't even heard from China and Canada yet.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > some folks are sayin Trump's tariffs will raise the cost of your beer!
> ...


The cost increase will be about $0.0001 per can.


----------



## william the wie (Mar 2, 2018)

Actually China's chief trade negotiator has been here the whole time and China is threatening to buy airbus.


----------



## Syriusly (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...


One of the biggest manufacturing industries in the United States is automobile manufacturing. The average car has about 2400 lbs of steel in it and about 300 lbs of aluminum. 

Yeah- the average joe won't notice the increase in the price of beer- but will in the increase in the price of a car.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 2, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> My conspiracy theory for the day:
> 
> If you were a globalist, what better way to push your agenda than to put a wolf in sheeps clothing in the White House to  talk about “merica first” and then to make America weaker economically and to weaken our position all around the world.
> 
> ...




Dude you so much owned the trump apologists.
Wow,I am freaking out because that is EXACTLY what I have been trying to tell these Trump dupes for the least year is i have been saying those EXACT words,that he is a clever wolf in sheeps clothing

you are the first poster i have seen at this site say MY words i been preaching.Cool to see I am not alone in the world.i thought I was the ONLY one out there who could see through that disguise of his.

He is very clever into getting you think he is FOR Americans with his words and even by some of his actions.He HAS actually been the first president since carter to do good things for america but at the same time,he also is serving his masters and doing their bidding as well.He is not FULLY committed to us like we need to have.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

Syriusly said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...


The price increase will be abot $150.  I doubt they will notice.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 2, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


thank you,these trump dupes dont get that.


----------



## Syriusly (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



Tell me more about how Trump never said he was going to slap huge tariff's on China.....


----------



## ABikerSailor (Mar 2, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > some folks are sayin Trump's tariffs will raise the cost of your beer!
> ...



Actually, on FOX News (yeah I know, but you gotta get intel on the other side occasionally), they had some dude from the Treasury holding up a Campbell's soup can telling you that the extra tax for the steel in the can is only a fraction of a cent and so there would be no price increase. 

Shortly after that, they had a representative from a beer company (Bud Light), and he said that this equated to roughly a 375 million dollar tax on beer makers, and that the extra costs of the cans would be passed onto the consumer. 

He then mentioned the soda makers, auto makers, and all the other industries that use aluminum.


----------



## IsaacNewton (Mar 2, 2018)

Conservatives now support artificially setting the price for commodities. Conservative socialism is hitting it's stride. Other ways cons meddle in the free market? Punishing a company like Delta for making decisions that they think are best for their bottom line. And of course steering government contracts to their friends and family, their donators, to the tune of billions of dollars, even though their friends can't do the job.


----------



## Thinker101 (Mar 2, 2018)

IsaacNewton said:


> Conservatives now support artificially setting the price for commodities. Conservative socialism is hitting it's stride. Other ways cons meddle in the free market? Punishing a company like Delta for making decisions that they think are best for their bottom line. And of course steering government contracts to their friends and family, their donators, to the tune of billions of dollars, even though their friends can't do the job.



What?!  It's Armageddon....again.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

Syriusly said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


25% on steel is not a huge tariff on China.


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...



You are so full of bullshit.


----------



## ABikerSailor (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



No, but it screws over one of our best allies which is Canada.  They supply the US with a lot of steel.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

IsaacNewton said:


> Conservatives now support artificially setting the price for commodities. Conservative socialism is hitting it's stride. Other ways cons meddle in the free market? Punishing a company like Delta for making decisions that they think are best for their bottom line. And of course steering government contracts to their friends and family, their donators, to the tune of billions of dollars, even though their friends can't do the job.



Georgia was proposing to give Delta preferential treatment, but when they expressed their hostility to the NRA that treatment was revoked.  They did exactly the opposite of "meddling in the free market."  They ended their meddling.  Furthermore, Delta's decision had nothing to do with its bottom line. 

Which government contracts are being steered to their friends and family?


----------



## Snouter (Mar 2, 2018)

I know The Donald had mentioned this before the election.  Hopefully this all talk and can lead to better trade deals, maybe China opening up a plant in the USA.


----------



## Synthaholic (Mar 2, 2018)

Idiotic move.  He hurt 4.5 million U.S. workers in order to help 140,000 U.S. workers in the steel industry.

Our president* is a moron.


----------



## Mac1958 (Mar 2, 2018)

There's a decent chance that this is an opening and public salvo in anticipated negotiations.

He wrote a book on it.  Here's hoping.


----------



## ABikerSailor (Mar 2, 2018)

Mac1958 said:


> There's a decent chance that this is an opening and public salvo in anticipated negotiations.
> 
> He wrote a book on it.  Here's hoping.



He didn't write squat.  He bragged for a while to Tony Schwartz, and Schwartz is the one that wrote the book.

I doubt he even knows how to read or write very well.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



Geez! If you keep increasing the additional cost of a car, we'll all have to walk to work.  Make up your mind.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 2, 2018)

ABikerSailor said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...



Yeah, that con man holding the soup can was Wilbur Ross, Sec of Commerce.  He got that job because he helped Trump to launder Russian money by brokering a real estate deal that was crooked as hell.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 2, 2018)

IsaacNewton said:


> Conservatives now support artificially setting the price for commodities. Conservative socialism is hitting it's stride. Other ways cons meddle in the free market? Punishing a company like Delta for making decisions that they think are best for their bottom line. And of course steering government contracts to their friends and family, their donators, to the tune of billions of dollars, even though their friends can't do the job.



Yeah, what's with this Delta thing and the NRA?  Pretty shady stuff.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



Especially since China is only our 10 biggest supplier of steel.  Canada though now they are going to be ticked  


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...


Prove it.


----------



## Syriusly (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...





bripat9643 said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



Oh how quickly you forget.

Here let me remind you:

Me:
_Actually his campaign promise- among others was a huge tariff on China._

Brippie:
_Can you quote Trump saying he was going to impose huge tariffs on China? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

I didn't think so_. 

Me: bitchslapping Brippie

Donald Trump Says He Favors Big Tariffs on Chinese Exports

_Donald J. Trump said he would favor a 45 percent tariff on Chinese exports to the United States, proposing the idea during a wide-ranging meeting with members of the editorial board of The New York Times._


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 2, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...




Why should today be any different than any other day?


----------



## DustyInfinity (Mar 2, 2018)

I'm not buying that we should just surrender to foreign interests.  I'm certainly willing to pay a bit more to bring good jobs back to the country.  The pointy headed little economy experts need to come up with a way to encourage American made products.  I heard someone say that nobody should have to apologize for sticking up for the American worker.  No doubt prices will increase when we try to compete in our own country with low cost Chinese, Mexican, ect garbage.  If the best the experts can come up with is to surrender to people with slave work forces and low safety standards, then I think we should try something else.  I don't buy that the best way to win the fight is to give up.


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 2, 2018)

Wilbur Ross says you will only pay hundreds more every year. Sounds like Nancy Pelosi talking about crumbs. So much for some people's tax cuts.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> Wilbur Ross says you will only pay hundreds more every year. Sounds like Nancy Pelosi talking about crumbs. So much for some people's tax cuts.


We will probably pay less than $100 total every year.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...



What is "the additional cost of a car?"  How much do you imagine Obama's "Clean Power Plan" would have increased the cost of owning a car?


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> > Conservatives now support artificially setting the price for commodities. Conservative socialism is hitting it's stride. Other ways cons meddle in the free market? Punishing a company like Delta for making decisions that they think are best for their bottom line. And of course steering government contracts to their friends and family, their donators, to the tune of billions of dollars, even though their friends can't do the job.
> ...



How is it "shady?"


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 2, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> Wilbur Ross says you will only pay hundreds more every year. Sounds like Nancy Pelosi talking about crumbs. So much for some people's tax cuts.




Ross is on my short list of folks I hope will get what's coming to them.  He brokers a shady real estate deal for Trump, a sale that netted Trump 55 Mill and the sale was to a Russian olig.  And suddenly Ross is the Commerce Sec.  Nothing to see here!  BTW  The property closed with no inspection and was razed shortly thereafter because of Mold!


----------



## harmonica (Mar 2, 2018)

should've done this stuff in the 60s/70s


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 2, 2018)

IsaacNewton said:


> Conservatives now support artificially setting the price for commodities. Conservative socialism is hitting it's stride. Other ways cons meddle in the free market? Punishing a company like Delta for making decisions that they think are best for their bottom line. And of course steering government contracts to their friends and family, their donators, to the tune of billions of dollars, even though their friends can't do the job.



All this has been tried before. The Soviet's had a planned economy all the way from 1920 to 1980. They, two artificially tried to change the economics of the free enterprise system.


----------



## william the wie (Mar 2, 2018)

Just because organized crime's political arm, the Ds, say it is shady is reason to believe it is not in and of itself.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > IsaacNewton said:
> ...




Read for yourself.  I don't have time to educate the un- educateable.  

Georgia Passes Bill That Stings Delta Over N.R.A. Position


----------



## harmonica (Mar 2, 2018)

remember when Japan didn't import rice??  but they exported cars??
was this not hypocrisy screwing over the US/etc??

we've been getting screwed over toooooooo loooong


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 2, 2018)

I kind of hate to see Trump put Harley Davidson out of business. I have always been partial to them.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 2, 2018)

harmonica said:


> remember when Japan didn't import rice??  but they exported cars??
> was this not hypocrisy screwing over the US/etc??
> 
> we've been getting screwed over toooooooo loooong



Well, if Ford and GM could build a car as well as Honda and Toyota, perhaps people would buy them.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 2, 2018)

william the wie said:


> Just because organized crime's political arm, the Ds, say it is shady is reason to believe it is not in and of itself.



And just because a GOPer says it isn't should be enough to believe it is. Trumpism:  Govt of the stupid, by the stupid and for the stupid.  Let's help it perish from the earth.


----------



## harmonica (Mar 2, 2018)

Vandalshandle said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > remember when Japan didn't import rice??  but they exported cars??
> ...


still unfair--hypocritical


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 2, 2018)

Harley's stock is down 25% in the last year. Oh, well...

Harley-Davidson Inc.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 2, 2018)

harmonica said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > harmonica said:
> ...



Ford and GM should be given government help to make them more competitive, even though they sell inferior products to the Japanese? 

I'm not sure that you are inboard the free enterprise system, comrade....


----------



## Lakhota (Mar 2, 2018)

This won't end well.


----------



## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

Crixus said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you Mr. President and it’s about time.
> ...


China builds a larger military and takes your life away from you.


----------



## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

Nice to hear from liberal and conservative dickheads that have never worked on heavy industry...never got their precious fucking pussy assed hands calloused in their lives...look down on the American worker. The “ Greatest Generation” did it because of our manufacturing base. Dumb bastards.


----------



## harmonica (Mar 2, 2018)

Vandalshandle said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...


sure let's screw over the Americans 
hahahahah


----------



## MarathonMike (Mar 2, 2018)

Like I posted in another thread, that was Donald Trump's first pitch. Fastball high and tight, chin music HELLO. Now expect him to bring the softer stuff.


----------



## SassyIrishLass (Mar 2, 2018)

Lakhota said:


> This won't end well.



We've been in a trade war with China for nearly two decades. Trump is just doing what Reagan did with Japan on trade issues. He's hawkish.

By the way  did you lose your mind when Obama put  a 35% tariff on Chinese tires? No way no how you did


----------



## BluesLegend (Mar 2, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> BluesLegend said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...



You and Reagan have nothing in common.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 2, 2018)

harmonica said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > harmonica said:
> ...



I think that I understand your position, Harmon. You believe that corporate welfare, which rewards corporations for producing inferior products, is not anything like individual welfare, which encourages people not to work. Have I got that right?


----------



## BluesLegend (Mar 2, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> BluesLegend said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...



Based on your posts, yeah you are a


----------



## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611


Let me tell you motherfuckers and the liberal motherfuckers that run this goddamn board. As well as the country club pussy fucking Republicans on the other side. You merged my post again because you are ignorant. We won World War Two because of our manufacturing base. There was a time in America that people worked in heavy manufacturing and entered the middle-class. That particular genreation survived Great Depression and won World War Two. I have the utmost respect for my 6 uncles...4 wounded in action...who were part of this generation. The test of the post war World is how long we will stand by and allow...primarily China...who has been fucking us for years , to dump their  shit into” big box retailers” like Wal Mart, Target, and dollar stores. Those used to be American Jobs. What is good for Wall Street is not always good for Main Street. Trump gets it. You fuckheads in media who have never fought in a war or got your hands dirty in factory don’t get it. We don’t live on  dividends from Wall Street...fuck them.


----------



## Rambunctious (Mar 2, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> ...



Where can I buy more winner tabs for this spot on post? could not have said it better myself...


----------



## harmonica (Mar 2, 2018)

Vandalshandle said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...


better than screwing Americans in the  rear--sure --you've got it


----------



## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611


the thread I tried to post has nothing to do with your ignorant assed fucking, never worked a blue collar job ass. But because the moderators on this board have never as well...it got merged. Let me say...with all sincerity...you are a dumb cocksucker.


----------



## Crixus (Mar 2, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Crixus said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...




Yeah, but not really. Not me. I don’t work in Steele, but I consume some now and then. Let’s see how It shakes out.


----------



## Death Angel (Mar 2, 2018)

BULLDOG said:


> Great. We've been needing a good trade war. MAGA!!!!
> View attachment 179718


That's actually funny


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 2, 2018)

harmonica said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > harmonica said:
> ...



Well, I appreciate your honesty. Now, I know that marginalizing you is justified!


----------



## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

Crixus said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Crixus said:
> ...


I used to consume something from steel manufacturing...it was a called a paycheck and a future for my family. But, because we let Japan and China dump low grade steel into our market...well...doing other things now. Left my hometown as a vet. It does not even have a Foreign Legion or American Legion anymore because of population loss due to trade policies. Lower tax base...schools suffer.


----------



## harmonica (Mar 2, 2018)

Vandalshandle said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...


great idea--screw America over
they should have put tariffs on all that shit in the 60s and 70s....big time on companies that went overseas.......it's called protecting America


----------



## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

harmonica said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > harmonica said:
> ...


Right. China gets stronger and we get weaker.


----------



## Litwin (Mar 2, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> *he* just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611


 "He" , do you mean *Pynia *(Putler)?


----------



## harmonica (Mar 2, 2018)

they bought a BRIDGE from China!!!!!!????
that is some dumb shit---they screwed over America Big time those west coast illegal lovers America haters


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

Vandalshandle said:


> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> > Conservatives now support artificially setting the price for commodities. Conservative socialism is hitting it's stride. Other ways cons meddle in the free market? Punishing a company like Delta for making decisions that they think are best for their bottom line. And of course steering government contracts to their friends and family, their donators, to the tune of billions of dollars, even though their friends can't do the job.
> ...


What is "all this?"  A couple of tariffs turns us into a planned economy?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 2, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Crixus said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...




I would probably agree with much of what you say but these Tariffs don't effect China hardly at all.  It punishes our strong allies in Canada and Mexico and Brazil and S Korea.  So, this stuff is aimed squarely at the wrong folks.  And, if this actually happens, we will face similar tariffs from those folks and others while China is barely touched.  Not to mention the inflation sure to follow.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 2, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


Since you didn't answer the question, I'll ask again:   How is it "shady?"


----------



## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

THE WAR . At Home . War Production | PBS
Won the war and made us a superpower.


----------



## Crixus (Mar 2, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Crixus said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...





Sadly, that’s the way of it. But what ever jobs there are from steel and aluminum now won’t be better if a trade we breaks out. Trump, Schumer all the political shits in Washington get to eat $3,000 dinners and watch movies in the people’s house. But a guy up in North Houston who rolls sheet metal, or builds commercial buildings will suffer and that pain will trickle down even to me as I use allot of steel day to day at my job. Steel gets expensive, so do pay checks. Workers suffer. Just wish the political ruling class wouldn’t be so glib with our livelyhood. They can take a loss. It’s nothing to them. Don’t envy you your story. That sucks and I hope you made out in a better place.


----------



## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Crixus said:
> ...


Fuck them too. If they are our allies they would not be screwing us over now would they?


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



You are the one who has to prove it. You are the one making the claims like you are a super accountant. Prove your statements.


----------



## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

Crixus said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Crixus said:
> ...


When you going to stop it? Time has come to stand up for American workers and American families.


----------



## Crixus (Mar 2, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Crixus said:
> ...





Could you imagine if Canada and Mexico hot say, lumber with a tariff? Cali, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas would feel that pinch big time.


----------



## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

Crixus said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Crixus said:
> ...


Hear you brother. But we have to make a fair lane in the market for US manufactured steel.


----------



## Crixus (Mar 2, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Crixus said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...


 


I agree100%. I agree there is a time when you say duck it, trudge in swinging until someone hits the ground. I just haven’t herd enough to believe it’s that time yet.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



Read the article.


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 2, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...



They are not screwing us over. I have a trade deficit with Walmart and Dollar Tree to name a couple. Consumers want products from other countries. Trump is screwing 144 million workers in steel using industries as well as millions of American consumers. You are in-American just like Trump.


----------



## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

Crixus said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...


Lumber shortage is because China is buying it all up from North America because they are In an economic boom.Why? Because they have our manufacturing jobs. Their middle class is growing.


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > Wilbur Ross says you will only pay hundreds more every year. Sounds like Nancy Pelosi talking about crumbs. So much for some people's tax cuts.
> ...



Quite picking numbers out of your head.


----------



## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

China is the enemy and so is Russia. Dip shits in 1930’s allowed Germany, Italy, and Japan to rise same way. Unreal the ignorance of people. Wall Street $$$ overriding our historical national security challenge.


----------



## Rambunctious (Mar 2, 2018)




----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 2, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...



Yeah but I thought this was about China.  That's who the proposed tariffs are supposed to push back against.  Just saying it doesn't get that job done.


----------



## undertherqadar (Mar 2, 2018)

Trump was angry and 'unglued' when he started a trade war, officials say
\

On Wednesday evening, the president became "unglued," in the words of one official familiar with the president's state of mind.

A trifecta of events had set him off in a way that two officials said they had not seen before: Hope Hicks' testimony to lawmakers investigating Russia's interference in the 2016 election, conduct by his embattled attorney general and the treatment of his son-in-law by his chief of staff.

Trump, the two officials said, was angry and gunning for a fight, and he chose a trade war, spurred on by Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross and Peter Navarro, the White House director for trade — and against longstanding advice from his economic chair Gary Cohn and Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin.


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 2, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Crixus said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...



There is a lumber shortage because Trump started another trade war. Because of this lumber is in short supply and the prices have skyrocketed. This could lead to a $8,000 increase in new home prices. Shutting off Canadian wood did not lead to increased supply. Just higher prices. Take your shit somewhere else moron.


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 2, 2018)

undertherqadar said:


> Trump was angry and 'unglued' when he started a trade war, officials say



Trump has a temper tantrum over other things and takes it out on Americans. Trump must go in 2020.


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## busybee01 (Mar 2, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Crixus said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...



China only supplies 4% of our steel. How is this going to hit them? Try educating yourself moron.,


----------



## Wry Catcher (Mar 2, 2018)

Vandalshandle said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...



True.  Trump's latest disaster adds to an already chaotic White House; no one seems ready to step in and stop what has become an impending train wreck.

Is Trump failing to generate effective psychological coping mechanisms in is he decompensating?

Pence is worthless, Ryan is worthless and McConnell is worthless.  Who else can step up and lead a movement to invoke the 25th Amendment?  Not the swamp critters he nominated and the senate confirmed.  

Is there no hero anywhere in The District who will put our country first?


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 2, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Nice to hear from liberal and conservative dickheads that have never worked on heavy industry...never got their precious fucking pussy assed hands calloused in their lives...look down on the American worker. The “ Greatest Generation” did it because of our manufacturing base. Dumb bastards.



Why don't you shut up with your class warfare. The fact is that jobs have been lost to automation and increased worker productivity. That is not going to change. Apparently you look down on them you piece of trash.


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## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


What about the millions of jobs that have been lost in “steel production industry “ you Democratic Party mouthpiece. Retail jobs don’t replace manufacturing jobs and the income. If you think the greatest nation on earth can swap a steel mill job out with a “Welcome to Wal Mart” job and remain a global superpower then you are either naive or stupid.


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## Asclepias (Mar 2, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


China will just make it back by raising the interest rates on our loans.


----------



## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Nice to hear from liberal and conservative dickheads that have never worked on heavy industry...never got their precious fucking pussy assed hands calloused in their lives...look down on the American worker. The “ Greatest Generation” did it because of our manufacturing base. Dumb bastards.
> ...


It’s not automation that lost those jobs. It’s poor policies and utter foreign policy stupidity. So, how many hours you worked in manufacturing? Oh..none? So blue collar workers are just simple numbers to you? Fuck em huh. Fuck their families? Fuck the fact their men stood up and fought for this nation and died. You are one simple sonofabitch aren’t you? You sound like that idiot Scarborough.


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## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

Asclepias said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...


Don’t have to pay when we cut em off to our market.


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## Asclepias (Mar 2, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...


Damn you got pretty fake patriotic and self righteous there.


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## Asclepias (Mar 2, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


I guess you dont how loans work. Figures.


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## busybee01 (Mar 2, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > IsaacNewton said:
> ...



Yes it does. The effects of this are wide reaching. 144 million workers in steel producing industries will be hurt. Millions more consumers will be hurt.


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## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

Asclepias said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...


Perhaps they work something like this...
China...bring it.


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## Asclepias (Mar 2, 2018)

Wait until China squeezes Apple and other tech companies that have a big consumer base in Asia.


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## busybee01 (Mar 2, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...



Millions of jobs have not been lost. You are a liar. You are the one who is the Democrat mouthpiece. Bernie Sanders and Charles Schumer support this. You stand with Democrats.


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## Asclepias (Mar 2, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...


So you think Japan and China are the same thing. God youre dumb.


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## busybee01 (Mar 2, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...



Fuck you stupid asshole. You are one of the most if not the most ignorant posters. This is the 21st century. McDonald's is looking at replacing workers with machines. You sound like that idiot Trump, idiot Sanders and idiot Schumer.


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## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...


Your talking about fast food versus Pittsburgh Steel...you ever seen a great America son? Nope. That has been denied you because of the pussification of our country.


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## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

Asclepias said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...


Same historical threat...different times...
Bringing home the fallen Marines of Tarawa


----------



## debbiedowner (Mar 2, 2018)

Electrolux to delay $250M Tennessee investment after Trump tariff announcement


----------



## Asclepias (Mar 2, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...


You've been watching too many reruns of the closet gay John Wayne.


----------



## Synthaholic (Mar 2, 2018)

*[URL="https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/amp/trump-was-angry-unglued-when-he-started-trade-war-officials-n852641"]Trump was angry and 'unglued' when he started a trade war, officials say[/URL]*


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## debbiedowner (Mar 2, 2018)

Asclepias said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



He is pretty fucking dumb, but what do you expect?


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## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...


I will refrain myself from exploding on your dumb ass about my personal experience of friends, suicide, and job loss due to trade policies.
The high price of ‘free’ trade: NAFTA’s failure has cost the United States jobs across the nation


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## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

debbiedowner said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...


Am I...or do I have actual life experience with this shit?


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## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

Do not ever condescend to me on this board about the impact of our government allowing our jobs to be robbed because of poor trade policies in exchange for a few $$$.


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## TomParks (Mar 2, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...



NAFTA needs to go period......we had robust growth under Reagan without it.


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## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

TomParks said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...


Damn right. That’s the tipping point for millions of old school Democrats to leave the party.


----------



## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

Does Hillary Clinton, Mika Bresinski, or Anderson Cooper even know what a working class 8 hour day is like? From their sheltered world? I would be coated in black from head to toe in the mill I used to work in. Sweat your ass off in January. But it paid the bills, got you into the middle class and was the American Dream. Was. Thanks Democrats for selling that out.


----------



## Asclepias (Mar 2, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Does Hillary Clinton, Mika Bresinski, or Anderson Cooper even know what a working class 8 hour day is like? From their sheltered world? I would be coated in black from head to toe in the mill I used to work in. Sweat your ass off in January. But it paid the bills, got you into the middle class and was the American Dream. Was. Thanks Democrats for selling that out.


Thats whats wrong with you. You have coal dust poisoning of the brain.


----------



## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

Asclepias said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Does Hillary Clinton, Mika Bresinski, or Anderson Cooper even know what a working class 8 hour day is like? From their sheltered world? I would be coated in black from head to toe in the mill I used to work in. Sweat your ass off in January. But it paid the bills, got you into the middle class and was the American Dream. Was. Thanks Democrats for selling that out.
> ...


Must be my White Privilege?


----------



## dudmuck (Mar 2, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Does Hillary Clinton, Mika Bresinski, or Anderson Cooper even know what a working class 8 hour day is like? From their sheltered world? I would be coated in black from head to toe in the mill I used to work in. Sweat your ass off in January. But it paid the bills, got you into the middle class and was the American Dream. Was. Thanks Democrats for selling that out.


Your heroes Koch Brothers have no idea what an 8 hour workday is.


----------



## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

dudmuck said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Does Hillary Clinton, Mika Bresinski, or Anderson Cooper even know what a working class 8 hour day is like? From their sheltered world? I would be coated in black from head to toe in the mill I used to work in. Sweat your ass off in January. But it paid the bills, got you into the middle class and was the American Dream. Was. Thanks Democrats for selling that out.
> ...


I don’t give a fuck about them What about my hometown...others like it? Suicides by vets who serve and can’t find a job when they get out? Fuck your paltry fucking political talking points bullshit.


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## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

Millions of Americans lose jobs to unfair trade...liberal Democrats kids...well...JFK’s granddaughter...


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## Wickerthing (Mar 2, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> dudmuck said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...



Maybe if your GOP wouldn't lie us into wars so folks like Cheney can get richer, there would be fewer Veterans with psychological problems.  Where did you stand on the Iraq war?  Let me guess.  All for it.  BTW, you need to calm down because like Trump, you could make rash decisions.


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## Bush92 (Mar 2, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > dudmuck said:
> ...


Oh. Our wars are about $$$. OK ANTIFA burb boy. How many years military service do you have?


----------



## oreo (Mar 2, 2018)

theDoctorisIn said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > The Derp said:
> ...




Trump had to start a war somewhere, and this is it. * The stock market is already taking a nose dive over it.*  Tariffs have never created a single job, but they're great for job loss's.






The offended tariffed country will just tariff American products.  Sending prices on everything skyrocketing to American consumers.  The Fed will jump in to fight inflation, American consumers will cut back on their spending and loans and then the job layoffs start.   *This is the only result of a trade war.*

In fact, the Smoot Hawley tariff of the Great Depression in the 1930's is responsible for making that depression last much longer than it should have.
*The Smoot-Hawley Tariff and the Great Depression | Theodore Phalan, Deema Yazigi, Thomas Rustici*


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 3, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...


I have to prove I'm full of bullshit?  I hardly think so.


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## basquebromance (Mar 3, 2018)

China is dumping its steel all over the United States. no more, folks, no more!


----------



## DustyInfinity (Mar 3, 2018)

I don't believe that good jobs and affordable goods are mutually exclusive.  There is no reason to consistently lose.  The media makes it sound like it is impossible to promote good jobs without cataclysmic price increases.  They couldn't cheer any harder for the continued extermination of the middle class if they tried.  I'm also tired of proposed tariffs being called a "Planned Economy."  That is an exaggeration and you know it.  Bad trade deals are not free trade, it is just willful theft.  Fair trade and free trade can coexist.


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## basquebromance (Mar 3, 2018)

"these tariffs will discombobulate the economy" - Republican Wacky Orrin Hatch


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## basquebromance (Mar 3, 2018)

Fake CNN says: To prove we at Fake CNN aren’t always anti-Trump, we did today endorse and urge Trump to levy a tariff on AR-15s so that they will be too costly to buy anymore.


----------



## basquebromance (Mar 3, 2018)

See if you recognize a pattern: 
 — Trump keeps campaign promise.
 — Media create “chaos in the White House” narrative stories with anonymous sources. 

 Rinse and repeat.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop (Mar 3, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> See if you recognize a pattern:
> — Trump keeps campaign promise.
> — Media create “chaos in the White House” narrative stories with anonymous sources.
> 
> Rinse and repeat.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop (Mar 3, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> See if you recognize a pattern:
> — Trump keeps campaign promise.
> — Media create “chaos in the White House” narrative stories with anonymous sources.
> 
> Rinse and repeat.


*see if you recognize Alpha Trump Gimp*


----------



## basquebromance (Mar 3, 2018)

this is aimed only at China. it's a limited thing.

you have to do what's right and then see what the consequences are.


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## TyroneSlothrop (Mar 3, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> this is aimed only at China. it's a limited thing.
> 
> you have to do what's right and then see what the consequences are.


you have to what is right wing nut and hope for the best LOL


----------



## TyroneSlothrop (Mar 3, 2018)

*Carl Icahn Perfectly Timed $30 Million Stock Dump*
MARCH 02, 20182:30 PM 
By HENRY GRABAR 

Onetime Trump adviser Carl Icahn sold more than $30 million in steel-sensitive crane stock in the weeks before the president announced his intention to slap a 25 percent tax on steel imports, according to an SEC filing flagged by ThinkProgress. 

Various partnerships under Icahn’s control sold off almost a million shares of the Manitowoc Co. starting with big sales on Feb. 12 and 13. On Feb. 16, Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross published a report calling for a 24 percent tariff on steel imports to the United States.* On Feb. 21 and 22, Icahn dumped another several hundred thousand shares, dropping his ownership stake below 5 percent and releasing him from the responsibility to disclose further sales. Then, on Thursday, Trump announced he would be signing steel tariffs next week, despite vocal opposition from business interests. 

Trump has been rumbling about steel tariffs since the campaign trail, of course, but Icahn’s timing was remarkable: Manitowoc’s stock has fallen by about 20 percent since Icahn began dumping it, punctuated by big losses after the Ross report and Trump’s announcement on Thursday. Icahn saved several million dollars by unloading his stock between $32 and $34 a share. (It was $27 at the time of publication.) ... 

*Carl Icahn Perfectly Timed $30 Million Stock Dump Before Trump’s Tariff Announcement*


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 3, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> this is aimed only at China. it's a limited thing.
> 
> you have to do what's right and then see what the consequences are.



How is that aimed at China when we get very little steel from them...


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 3, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> this is aimed only at China. it's a limited thing.
> 
> you have to do what's right and then see what the consequences are.



The sad thing about your post is that I think Trump believes this move is going after China as I do not believe he is well informed enough to know that we get very little steel from China.


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## TyroneSlothrop (Mar 3, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > this is aimed only at China. it's a limited thing.
> ...


*Ex-Trump adviser sold $31m in shares days before president announced steel tariffs*
Source: *The Guardian (UK)*

Carl Icahn, a former special adviser to Donald Trump, sold $31.3m of shares in a company heavily dependent on steel imports last week, shortly before Trump’s announcement of new tariffs sent its shares plummeting. 

Icahn, a billionaire investor who was a major Trump supporter, started selling shares in the crane and lifting equipment supplier Manitowoc Company on 12 February, days before the commerce department first mooted plans to impose stiff tariffs on foreign steel imports... 

...On Thursday Trump said he would press ahead with the commerce department’s plans to levy 25% tariffs on imports of steel and 10% on aluminium. 

According to a regulatory filing Icahn was able to sell his shares for $32 to $34. On Friday morning Manitowoc’s shares had fallen 5.48% to $26.37. The fall was in line with drops seen by other companies dependent on cheap steel imports, including Boeing and Caterpillar.

Read more: Ex-Trump adviser sold $31m in shares days before president announced steel tariffs 

*
Carl Icahn? Worked for Trump? Engaged in insider trading?*


----------



## Correll (Mar 3, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...




Sooo, you support President Trump on this move?


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 3, 2018)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...



Carl Icahn is about 9000 times smarter than Trump. 

8 years ago Icahn was arguing that the Trump brand was a  disadvantage that longer was synonymous with business acumen, high quality


----------



## Correll (Mar 3, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...





The smart move on the part of our trade "partners" is to cut off their noses to spite their face, in the short run, in the hopes that Trump is replaced by another "Free Trader" 

who does not care that Globalism is utterly fucking the average American worker.


----------



## Correll (Mar 3, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...





The middle class and the worker poor are the ones that have been fucked by decades of competing with the world in a rigged game.


If Trade Balance doesn't matter, why are our trade partners upset by this move?


----------



## Correll (Mar 3, 2018)

debbiedowner said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...





That is a strong argument. 

Or it was. 


But we addressed that. The Unions are pale shadows of what they were, and the trade deficits just keep getting higher and higher ever year.



I'm not going to be impressed by the same arguments that were made in the 80s, that have failed to deliver their intended results.


The goal of national policy is to benefit the nation's citizens. 


The policy of "Free Trade" has not. 


It has failed.


----------



## basquebromance (Mar 3, 2018)

Wilbur Ross: "I just bought this can today at a 7-Eleven ... and it priced at a $1.99. Who in the world is going to be too bothered?"


----------



## Correll (Mar 3, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> debbiedowner said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...




The incompetence and the taking care of each other, that we see at the top, is very much like a bad union.


Seems to be little accountability for failure.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 3, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> Wilbur Ross: "I just bought this can today at a 7-Eleven ... and it priced at a $1.99. Who in the world is going to be too bothered?"



Like Wilbur Ross has ever been in a 7-11.  Lying bastard!


----------



## sealybobo (Mar 3, 2018)

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


No he’s starting a trade war. It’s like if trump nuked russia. You can get me to agree russia is no good but not Nuking them. 

Our trade imbalance needs to be fixed but we don’t need a trade war.

There goes our tax breaks. I hear the cost of living is already going up


----------



## undertherqadar (Mar 3, 2018)

Now the old schmucks wearing maga hats are cheering the reaming they are about to receive


----------



## Correll (Mar 3, 2018)

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...






If we want to play the rules of our trade "partners" we have to massive STEP UP that type of shit.


Which, I don't really want to.


BUT the real point is EVERY job, is vulnerable to this type of unfair competition.


There is no job or manufacturing that we can create that our trade "partners" will not try to take to the benefit of their workers and economy.


Ignoring that fact is killing our workers. Literally and figuratively.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 3, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



Trade imbalances are way overblown.

In Praise Of Trade Deficits

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...bd5460f0d7e_story.html?utm_term=.4dc75a55931d

Also, on a smaller scale, we all run trade deficits and surpluses every day as individuals. 

I have a trade surplus with my employer. I give them a product and they give me money.   So, massive trade surplus there since I have never once given my employer any of my money. 

On the other hand I have a massive trade deficit with my grocery store.  I give them money and they give me products. Now, I could grow and create each of those products myself if I really wanted to.  But it is cheaper and easier for me to get them from the grocery store, so that is why I chose to do that.  Now my grocery store runs a trade deficit with each of their supplier, they give the store products in exchange for money.


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## Correll (Mar 3, 2018)

Vandalshandle said:


> debbiedowner said:
> 
> 
> > TheMoreYouKnow said:
> ...




I just want to note, this is not the workers fault, but lazy and corrupt management.


----------



## Correll (Mar 3, 2018)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > The Derp said:
> ...




So, a minor increase in price for the consumer, but the jobs stay here?


Sounds like a good policy to me.


----------



## Correll (Mar 3, 2018)

Windparadox said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > I honestly think that Trump is having a nervous breakdown.
> ...




You ever visit the Rust Belt?


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 3, 2018)

Correll said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



But that is not what happens.  There are no examples in recent history where there was a net job gain due to tariffs.


----------



## Correll (Mar 3, 2018)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > TheOldSchool said:
> ...




Manufacturing is a part of any healthy, large economy. 


Our trade "partners" have fucked up our manufacturing sector.


Trade is supposed to be mutually beneficial. If it is not, why do it?


----------



## Correll (Mar 3, 2018)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...





You know that those who have massive trade surpluses with US, are terrified of losing them.


This could just be a negotiating first step by President Trump.


Either way works for me. The Status Quo is killing US.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 3, 2018)

Correll said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



It is hard to argue our economy is being fucked when we are in the midst of the 3rd longest period of economic expansion in the history of our country and it will soon be the 2nd longest.


----------



## Correll (Mar 3, 2018)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...




I could maybe see that with low wage nations, such as China. MAYBE.


But that does not explain our massive trade deficit with freaking GERMANY.

They aren't winning because they pay their workers slave wages.



The fix is in.


----------



## Correll (Mar 3, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> eddiew37 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



They lose a shit load of money by selling their bonds in a market they depressed.


And we have to pay more to borrow money for our deficit spending.


What part of that makes a 300 billion a year trade deficit a good thing?


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 3, 2018)

Correll said:


> eddiew37 said:
> 
> 
> > eddiew37 said:
> ...



Did the Trade Deficit Cause $20 Trillion in Debt?


----------



## Correll (Mar 3, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...





1. No we don't. We are number ten, by this count. Most of the ones ahead of US are in the EU trade bloc. Want to guess how many of them have a large trade surplus with US, at our expense?

2. AND that measurement is an average. It does not take into account the damage done to huge swaths of our nation over the last 50 years. 

3. AND, if you look at the potential advances that should have been made by our middle class and working poor, over the last 50 years, if we had had decent policies, you see the real cost of our stupid policies.


----------



## Correll (Mar 3, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> The Sage of Main Street said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



No, the policy of the last 50 years have been literally KILLING Americans. Also figuratively. We need to reverse that.


----------



## Correll (Mar 3, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> Wilbur Ross: "I just bought this can today at a 7-Eleven ... and it priced at a $1.99. Who in the world is going to be too bothered?"




AND that's with the high price of  convenience store shopping.


Good find!


----------



## eddiew37 (Mar 3, 2018)

Correll said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > Wilbur Ross: "I just bought this can today at a 7-Eleven ... and it priced at a $1.99. Who in the world is going to be too bothered?"
> ...


I SAW A MAN
I saw a man this morning defending the tariffs by holding up a can of Campbell Soup and an aluminum Coke can.  He said there is about 2-1/2 cents of steel in the soup can and about 3 cents in the Coke can, so the increase in costs is hardly worth mentioning.  My immediate thought was...what does John Deere or Peter-bilt or Carrier or Maytag or even Toyota think of the tariffs.  What are those big Cats 3M uses made of?  

I can't even pretend to grasp higher economics, but I know that an increase of 2-1/2 cents per can for millions of cans can add up.  And I can imagine the effect on Pratt & Whitney and Boeing when it comes to a 25% increase in the cost of steel and 10% in the cost of aluminum.  If he tariffs rubber, maybe we better start weaving coolie carts.


----------



## Correll (Mar 3, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...




We are never going to be able to fix our trade balance, if the rest of the world is able to just take advantage of US with no push back.


Their national governments would be remiss in their own responsibility to their own citizens, if they did NOT take advantage of a fool with his money, ie US.


----------



## Correll (Mar 3, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...





Sooo, why is everyone so upset about this action, if it doesn't matter?



Just give US what we want, if it doesn't matter.


Why retaliate to this action, with a Trade War, if it doesn't matter?


----------



## eddiew37 (Mar 3, 2018)

Correll said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


Does this matter correll?
Tariff has its impact. Electrolux just cancelled plans for a $250,000,000 expansion in TN.


----------



## Correll (Mar 3, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...




What's the history of job gains, when you just let your trade "partners" fuck you over, for decades without taking any serious steps to protect your citizens from predatory trade policies?


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## Correll (Mar 3, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...





Large segments of our work force have been stagnating while the rest have marched on. 


The overall macro numbers hide that.


But it is hurting tens of millions of Americans specifically and the nation overall more generally.


Have you seen this number?


White Americans Are Dying Younger as Drug and Alcohol Abuse Rises


"The new federal data, drawn from all deaths recorded in the country in 2014, showed that life expectancy for whites dropped to 78.8 years in 2014 from 78.9 in 2013. Men and women had declines, but because of statistical rounding, the decline did not appear as sharp among men.

Life expectancy for women fell to 81.1 in 2014 from 81.2 in 2013. The average life span for men also fell, but not enough to sink below 76.5 years, their life expectancy in 2013."


"Life expectancy for whites had been rising for decades, but it has stagnated in recent years. It inched up in 2010 and 2011, and was flat in 2012 and 2013.

Recent research has documented surprising increases in death rates among less educated whites. Last year, a paper by Anne Case and Angus Deaton documented rising death rates among middle-age white Americans, particularly those with no more than a high school education. Other research has found rising rates among younger whites.

The pattern had puzzled demographers, but the recent analyses have pointed to* suffering and anxiety *among working-class whites."




These shit policies are literally killing US.


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## Correll (Mar 3, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > eddiew37 said:
> ...





If workers wages had risen since the mid 60s at anything like the rates they had been rising, before Globalization and massive Third World immigration, 


the Middle Class and Working "poor" would be contributing HUGELY more to tax revenues, consumer spending and thus wealth generation AND requiring vastly less services.


President Trump certainly has a tendency to shot his mouth off, but this time his point is completely valid.


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## Wry Catcher (Mar 3, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...



In fact high tech jobs remain the future, and robots will produce the steel, as well as other sources of energy to meet the needs of the 21st Century.  We no longer need to live in the past, it was never the "good olde days" that some want us to believe.  Progress is not just a word, it is the ideology of the thinkers not the whiners.

Consider retail as it becomes a relic of the past, as shopping is more and more an act committed from the home computer, food, clothing, electronics and much much more will be delivered to your home by UPS, etc. and even Drones.

We have seen the future and it is ours to embrace, or we can allow the Reactionary Right to continue their efforts to return to the past.

Progressive Democrats and liberals see the future through the lens of history and the art of the invention.  All this rhetoric that Communism is their goal is foolish, and a result of their desperate fear that those who echo this faux argument have been left behind.


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## JoeB131 (Mar 3, 2018)

Correll said:


> What's the history of job gains, when you just let your trade "partners" fuck you over, for decades without taking any serious steps to protect your citizens from predatory trade policies?



so the thing is... our trade partners invested money in education and infrastructure. 

We gave tax breaks to rich people.  

And dumb crackers like you blame the darkies.  

Got it.  

Here's the thing, if American businesses can't compete in a fair fight, they probably deserve to go out of business.  

But Trumpenfuhrer's ideas are dumber than that. By raising costs of raw materials, he made Toyotas and Nissans cheaper than Fords and Chevys.


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## Correll (Mar 3, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...




The argument was that the price increase made this a bad policy.


The can shows that price increase for each purchase is very small. 


The CEOs of major manufactures, could see their small increases as "large" as they look at them as absolute numbers instead of proportionally.


But maybe they should consider that they are fucking Americans, before they try to save a few cents a ton, by fucking their fellow Americans.


And if such loyalty to their fellow citizens is too old fashioned for them to hold, 


maybe they need to think what their fellow citizens' response will be if they decide they are tired of being fucked.


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## eddiew37 (Mar 3, 2018)

Correll said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


Are we almost at full job capacity NOW ??


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## Correll (Mar 3, 2018)

Wry Catcher said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...





Embracing the future of high tech does not require neglecting the "past".


You are arguing against considering the interests of tens of millions of Americans in the formation of national policy.


That's not the way to build a good future.


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## eddiew37 (Mar 3, 2018)

Correll said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


And outside of Ross and the steel workers union boss most everyone thinks he's dead wrong   Cohen and the rest of them are no dummies


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## eddiew37 (Mar 3, 2018)

Correll said:


> eddiew37 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


and what of the citizens who are getting fucked by the rise in prices ???  Taxcuts gone +++??


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## Correll (Mar 3, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...






You look around you, at your peers and extended family, do you seriously not see a need for more and better jobs?


How many people do you know working two or more jobs, to make ends meet?

How many people do you know that are living pay check to pay check, without any security or retirement?


My mother in law was a nurse' aid, a literally shit job.


She worked in a small city about 40 minutes away. She made what amounted to a "living wage".


Her hospital was bough by a major health care complex operating out of the major city I live in, with it's large population of workers including many immigrants.


There was a very large discrepancy between the pay scales of nurse's aid between the big city, and the small.


Several dollars an hour. I'm afraid I don't recall the exact numbers.


BUT, it was enough to make a huge difference in the lives of the nurse's aids, in question.


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## Correll (Mar 3, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...




Except they are making the same arguments they made in the 80s, without addressing the fact that the predicted results of their policies 


*did not happen.*



The Free Trade policy has failed. It did not deliver.


Don't repeat the same arguments without addressing that and expect to have any credibility no matter how smart you are.


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## Correll (Mar 3, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > eddiew37 said:
> ...




A 3 cent rise in price is hardly "fucking".


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 3, 2018)

Correll said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



The same reason I would be upset with my grocery store if they arbitrarily choose to start charging me more for my coffee


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 3, 2018)

Correll said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Time marches on, things change, job opportunities change.  It is the nature of the world.  At the start of the 20th century more than 40% of the country was employed providing us food.  Now that percent is 2.    Should we be fighting to bring back all those lost agricultural jobs?


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## basquebromance (Mar 3, 2018)

"this is a slippery slope. more companies will ask for favors from the government. this is cronyism, pure & simple" - Supercilious Ben Sasse


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 3, 2018)

Correll said:


> The argument was that the price increase made this a bad policy.
> 
> 
> The can shows that price increase for each purchase is very small.
> ...



The price increase for each purchase is very small when you are talking about a can of beer.  Thank goodness I only drink beer out of a bottle! 

What is the increase on a building or a bridge or a combine for a farmer?


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## basquebromance (Mar 3, 2018)

if we get into a war with North Korea, are we gonna take steel from china??? I DEMAND AN ANSWER NOW!


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 3, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> if we get into a war with North Korea, are we gonna take steel from china??? I DEMAND AN ANSWER NOW!



you do know that China is only our 11th largest source of imported of steel, right?  Or am I giving you too much credit?


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## eddiew37 (Mar 3, 2018)

Correll said:


> eddiew37 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


there are jobs available   but mostly  in jobs that you need some specialization........and what's left in our job pool has none


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## eddiew37 (Mar 3, 2018)

Correll said:


> eddiew37 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


How many really smart guys,  some in his cabinet do you need to hear from that say trump was UNHINGED  making the tariff talk, before you too will admit he's an fn idiot???


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## basquebromance (Mar 3, 2018)

'add TN Sen Lamar Alexander to list of Republicans condemning Trump tariffs: “Broad tariffs against steel and aluminum imports will raise prices on consumers and hurt American workers”'


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## basquebromance (Mar 3, 2018)

"Trump's top pro-tariff trade WH advisor: Economist Peter Navarro, a California democrat who ran for office 5 times--and lost 5 times. (Photo taken in 1996, with Navarro standing next to a future twice failed presidential candidate.)"


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## basquebromance (Mar 3, 2018)

TRUMP TARIFF TALK ALREADY HAVING IMPACT: “Business investment depends on predictable policy, & relentless chaos takes its toll even if cooler heads prevail on the policies that the president is tweeting about.”

IF YOU DON'T SUPPORT PRESIDENT TRUMP YOU'RE NOT A REAL AMERICAN!!!


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## Hutch Starskey (Mar 3, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...



You're such a dope.

Costs go up for everything for everyone. Even businesses. If everything a business buys costs more, prices will have to rise as well, dope. It's not just cans. Its everything.


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## Hutch Starskey (Mar 3, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...





bripat9643 said:


> The price increase will be abot $150. I doubt they will notice.



Here's some simple math, retard.

Approx 6.3 million cars were sold in the US in 2017. 
Raising the price by $150 translates to $945m more spent on cars alone. 
That is nearly a billion dollars not being spent on something else, like growth.

Extrapolate that across the entire economy and you'll start to see the problem.


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## Hutch Starskey (Mar 3, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > Wilbur Ross says you will only pay hundreds more every year. Sounds like Nancy Pelosi talking about crumbs. So much for some people's tax cuts.
> ...





bripat9643 said:


> The price increase will be abot $150. I doubt they will notice.





bripat9643 said:


> We will probably pay less than $100 total every year.



^Truly retarded.


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## Hutch Starskey (Mar 3, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> ...





Bush92 said:


> Let me tell you motherfuckers and the liberal motherfuckers that run this goddamn board. As well as the country club pussy fucking Republicans on the other side.



........


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## Hutch Starskey (Mar 3, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...



The world has changed. We no longer need to be the world leader in steel production. The American economy is still the strongest.
People need to shake off the idea that manufacturing is the pathway to success and improve their skills to better compete in the economy. The days of low skilled mediocre jobs is gone. People need to be specialized and flexible.


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## Hutch Starskey (Mar 3, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> dudmuck said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...



We're at full employment. You're  way over the top with your angry old guy, hell in a handbasket shtick.


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## Hutch Starskey (Mar 3, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> Wilbur Ross: "I just bought this can today at a 7-Eleven ... and it priced at a $1.99. Who in the world is going to be too bothered?"



A tactic to soothe the biddable.

I see you've bought it.

The real cost to the economy of course, is not in a single can of soup but the cumulative cost of every single canned good produced in America.

Now, extrapolate that to every product.


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## Wickerthing (Mar 3, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...



Two.  Is that enough for you?  A tour in VN with the Marines.  Taught me that war is indeed about $.


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## Hutch Starskey (Mar 3, 2018)

Correll said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...





Correll said:


> Manufacturing is a part of any healthy, large economy.



Sure, just not in the historic way you're  imagining. People are increasingly less needed for production. 

It's time to stop being dependent on the local plant for your well being and time for individuals to be flexible and self sufficient.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 3, 2018)

william the wie said:


> TomParks said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


*College Is Not Cool, It's Coolie*

We're not allowed to count as student debt the lost income that could have been earned at ages 18-22 instead of going to college. So add $60 to $100 thousand to the price of this class-biased indentured servitude.


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## Vandalshandle (Mar 3, 2018)

Canada is very seriously into automobile manufacturing. They have all the infrastructure they need for it. Now, if i were GM, I would simply shift more manufacturing of, say, GMC trucks, to Canada, or even Mexico, which do NOT have to pay a tariff on steel. In fact, Canada produces their own steel. GM's problem is solved, and more Americans lose their jobs.


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## william the wie (Mar 3, 2018)

Actually there are schools with positive returns MIT being the most famous


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## basquebromance (Mar 3, 2018)

Electrolux halts $250 million project in Springfield after Trump's tariff announcement


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## basquebromance (Mar 3, 2018)

"The United States has an $800 Billion Dollar Yearly Trade Deficit because of our “very stupid” trade deals and policies. Our jobs and wealth are being given to other countries that have taken advantage of us for years. They laugh at what fools our leaders have been. No more!" - President Trump


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## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 3, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> The Sage of Main Street said:
> 
> 
> > TheMoreYouKnow said:
> ...


*Their Hopes Count on Dopes*

If customers can't afford to pay passed-on costs, then the decrease in sales will decrease the GreedHeads' total profits anyway.  So it's just a scare story their well-financed preachers are trying to make us fall for.


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## basquebromance (Mar 3, 2018)

"If the E.U. wants to further increase their already massive tariffs and barriers on U.S. companies doing business there, we will simply apply a Tax on their Cars which freely pour into the U.S. They make it impossible for our cars (and more) to sell there. Big trade imbalance!" - President Trump just now

no retreat, baby, no surrender.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 3, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> > Conservatives now support artificially setting the price for commodities. Conservative socialism is hitting it's stride. Other ways cons meddle in the free market? Punishing a company like Delta for making decisions that they think are best for their bottom line. And of course steering government contracts to their friends and family, their donators, to the tune of billions of dollars, even though their friends can't do the job.
> ...


*Throw All Your Eggs at One Basket*

According to Antiffies, Trump's support of the NRA's point of view cost its members their airline discounts.


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## basquebromance (Mar 3, 2018)

"Experts hate tariffs. Markets hate tariffs. Economists hate tariffs. Trump loves tariffs."


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## John Shaw (Mar 3, 2018)

Honestly, I'll admit, I don't know enough about economics to comment on what effect this will have. But just about EVERYONE is saying that it's a pretty bad idea. So I imagine it's probably a pretty bad idea.


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## bripat9643 (Mar 3, 2018)

Hutch Starskey said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...


Costs will go up by a trivial amount, moron.  They don't multiply like rabbits.  The material component of most manufactured items constitutes a small percentage of the cost.  The bulk of costs is labor and capital investment.  

Even if the cost of the completed product is double the price increase of steel, that's still only 1% for a washing machine, and it's probably less for most other products.

I don't support tariffs, but the hyperventilating over this one is pure politics.


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## Hutch Starskey (Mar 3, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



You're wrong, retard.

You're focusing on a single product rather than the total cost to the economy.


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## basquebromance (Mar 3, 2018)

"Reminder: Trump regularly inflates trade deficit numbers by only focusing on goods, not trade in goods and services. Commerce Dept says US trade deficit in 2017 was $566 billion."


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## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 3, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


*Carved on America's Tombstone:  PROUD TO DIE TAKING A RICH KID'S PLACE*

In Terminal America, war's purpose has been to establish birth-class supremacy, including for the no-talent brownnosing wannabe preppies who ran away to college.  Vietnam killed off or took the fight out of the bravest of those born in the working class.

Sadly, those who warn the plutocratic parasites about working-class revenge are only bluffing.  That would have happened long before the class holocaust ever reached the point it did in the 1960s.  The generations since that surrender are wandering fatalistic escapists and no threat to the spread and solidification of the exclusivist ruling class.


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## eddiew37 (Mar 3, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> TRUMP TARIFF TALK ALREADY HAVING IMPACT: “Business investment depends on predictable policy, & relentless chaos takes its toll even if cooler heads prevail on the policies that the president is tweeting about.”
> 
> IF YOU DON'T SUPPORT PRESIDENT TRUMP YOU'RE NOT A REAL AMERICAN!!!


A Massive tax increase for Americans


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## basquebromance (Mar 3, 2018)

"Why does Trump enjoy giving appearance of chaos around his adminstration despite having a clear, brilliantly designed strategic trap set for his enemies? Because you always cover the trap with leaves so the bear doesn't see it."


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## eddiew37 (Mar 3, 2018)

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


Burbon from McConnells state of Kentucky   Harleys from ah Ryans home state of Wisconsin  going down


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## Wickerthing (Mar 3, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> "Why does Trump enjoy giving appearance of chaos around his adminstration despite having a clear, brilliantly designed strategic trap set for his enemies? Because you always cover the trap with leaves so the bear doesn't see it."



I guess I'm just missing the brilliant plan for this country that your hero is implementing, right?  LOL  Is Javanka part of that plan?  How so?  How about the payola to hookers, part of the plan?  Well I guess we of limited intellect just fail to see the brilliance.  Yeah, that's it.


----------



## DustyInfinity (Mar 3, 2018)

I just heard Ross say that free trade is a slogan, not something that actually exists.  It is an excuse to take continuous losses.  He also pointed out the the experts never saw a bad trade deal they did not like.    I can't believe their is such resistance not to be taken advantage of.


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## bripat9643 (Mar 3, 2018)

Hutch Starskey said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...


Obviously you can't do simple math.  Consider the item we've been discussing: a washing machine.  As I've already pointed out, and you have failed to debunk, the cost of the steel in it will increase by 0.5%.  Let's say you want to consider how the cost of the steel in the robots that make it will affect the price.  A sophisticated industrial robot probable costs half a million dollars.  It probably wieghs less than a ton, so the cost of the steel in it will go up by $125.    $125/$500.000 =  0.025% increase in the price.  A similar calculation can be done for anything else used to produce the washing machine.  The bottom line is that consumers won't even notice any price increases.

Once again, I have to point out that you dumbass snowflakes had no problem with Obama tripling the price of energy with his so-called` "Clean Energy Program."  It takes energy to manufucture virtually everything, especiall steel and especially aluminum.  Considering that, one has to conclude that your hyperventilating about this tariff is pure politics.


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## bripat9643 (Mar 3, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > "Why does Trump enjoy giving appearance of chaos around his adminstration despite having a clear, brilliantly designed strategic trap set for his enemies? Because you always cover the trap with leaves so the bear doesn't see it."
> ...



Do you have any arrows in your quiver other than the lowest and cheapest brand of insult?  When you post stuff like the above you only convince me that your a brainless moron.


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## Wickerthing (Mar 3, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...




Am I upsetting you?  Well, forgiveness is good for the soul.  If anyone could teach how to bring a discussion to a crashing halt with insults, it's you.  And, BTW it's You're a brainless idiot. Not Your.  So I guess we can see who is brainless.  This is too easy.


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## Wickerthing (Mar 3, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



You seem to be obsessed with washing machines.  Do you need one?  Because I could give you such a deal, before the price goes up.


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## eddiew37 (Mar 3, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > "Why does Trump enjoy giving appearance of chaos around his adminstration despite having a clear, brilliantly designed strategic trap set for his enemies? Because you always cover the trap with leaves so the bear doesn't see it."
> ...


Sen Sasse ""Trade  penalties A MASSIVE tax increase on American families""


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## debbiedowner (Mar 3, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Do not ever condescend to me on this board about the impact of our government allowing our jobs to be robbed because of poor trade policies in exchange for a few $$$.



Well, what goes around comes around or whatever and I will condescend you and anyone else I see fit.


----------



## debbiedowner (Mar 3, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Does Hillary Clinton, Mika Bresinski, or Anderson Cooper even know what a working class 8 hour day is like? From their sheltered world? I would be coated in black from head to toe in the mill I used to work in. Sweat your ass off in January. But it paid the bills, got you into the middle class and was the American Dream. Was. Thanks Democrats for selling that out.



Oh wow I worked in a drop forge plant and aluminum mold plant during the summer months when factories had no ac so cry me a river.


----------



## BrokeLoser (Mar 3, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > "Why does Trump enjoy giving appearance of chaos around his adminstration despite having a clear, brilliantly designed strategic trap set for his enemies? Because you always cover the trap with leaves so the bear doesn't see it."
> ...



Open your eyes....it’s happening all around you...Donny’s banging porn stars and Playmates and partying like a rock star at Mara Lago...meanwhile nothing but winning and greatness is happening under this administration....sucks doesn’t it?
Bang more hookers Donny!


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## eddiew37 (Mar 3, 2018)

BrokeLoser said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...


European Union threatens to target Harley, Levi, U.S. whiskey


----------



## debbiedowner (Mar 3, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...



Let's see if he even goes through with it, you know one day he's for it and the next against. My thought is he won't pull the trigger.


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## Wickerthing (Mar 3, 2018)

BrokeLoser said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...



The only winning going on is with his bankbook.   Greatness?  Ask the rest of the free world how great they think he is.  Russia on the other hand would probably agree with you.  Putin's probably having his own version of golden showers watching things unfold.  Laughing really hard can do that.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 3, 2018)

debbiedowner said:


> eddiew37 said:
> 
> 
> > BrokeLoser said:
> ...



Let's hope you're right. Speaking of triggers, watch what doesn't happen on gun control.


----------



## BrokeLoser (Mar 3, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...



Hmmm, that’s weird.
My corporate tax was cut by 60%, my investment portfolio has blown off the charts and my real estate investments are through the roof.
I’m pretty sure this administration isn’t trying to win the worldwide popularity contest....that costs American taxpayers too much money. This administration is all about governing on behalf of America’s best. Sucks huh?


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## Wickerthing (Mar 3, 2018)

BrokeLoser said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > BrokeLoser said:
> ...



America's best.  Is that code for wealthiest?  Glad you're doing great.  But many are not and the things that help to keep their heads above water are under attack and someone has to pay for those cuts you love so much.  It's so easy to screw the powerless.  And your hero (paper towel man) is just the guy to do just that.


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## BrokeLoser (Mar 3, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...



This isn’t trivial.
America’s best=
Good quality, hard working, productive, law abiding, patriotic members of American society.

How are these folks you speak of “under attack”?
They aren’t getting more free shit?
How are “the powerless” getting screwed?
Who’s paying for my tax cut? The “powerless”?
How are people whom contribute nothing “PAYING for my tax cut”?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 3, 2018)

BrokeLoser said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > BrokeLoser said:
> ...



Who's talking about those who want a free ride?  Not me.  I'm talking about the working poor and disabled.  It's started already with Food Stamps Chip, WIC, AFDC, and Soc Sec will be next.  Somebody will pay for the revenue shortfall and it won't be the wealthy.  Not all folks who depend on such programs are abusing the system.  The number is tiny and compared to Corp Welfare is infinitesimal.  But the knee jerk answer from the right is that nobody works.  That's Ryan speak.


----------



## BrokeLoser (Mar 3, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...



Fair enough...explain to me how the working poor and the disabled are PAYING for my tax cuts. 
Please note: 
When one receives less free shit one is not PAYING for me to keep more of my own shit.
Hope I didn’t need to explain that to you.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 3, 2018)

BrokeLoser said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > BrokeLoser said:
> ...



When the promised rise in GDP doesn't materialize, then social spending is always the first to go.  Already 21% cut to Food Stamps and big cuts to Medicare/medicaid expansion and a new system of block grants to the states that badly under funds these programs and leaves governors to shoulder the blame.  Cuts also to federal housing, etc.  You don't need to believe me, just watch for yourself what happens when Ryan gets a crack at the poor.


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 3, 2018)

Correll said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > mikegriffith1 said:
> ...


The world is getting smaller and menial jobs will go to the cheapest place. We need to take advantage of our workers education and Tech ability, once the GOP allows cheaper training like Germany and other smart countries


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## Reasonable (Mar 3, 2018)

Hutch Starskey said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


Bripat is incapable of learning ANYTHING unless Sean Hannity tells him differently.


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## Reasonable (Mar 3, 2018)

Economic history shows why Trump's 'America First' tariff policy is so dangerous

Just think of everything that you buy with steel and aluminum that you’ll be paying more for.


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## busybee01 (Mar 3, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...



You are the ignorant dumb ass. More jobs have been lost to automation and increased productivity than have gone overseas. That is fact. You can live in your little fantasy island if you want.


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 3, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> this is aimed only at China. it's a limited thing.
> 
> you have to do what's right and then see what the consequences are.



China only supplies us with 4% of the steel used in this country. They won't even notice it. You are as dumb as Trump is.


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## Indeependent (Mar 3, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> TomParks said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


Wow!  One whole room!


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## busybee01 (Mar 3, 2018)

Correll said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



A minor increase? So nice of you to decide what is minor.

It is rotten policy from a rotten President.


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 3, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > TomParks said:
> ...



Luddites, you got to love them!  


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


----------



## Syriusly (Mar 3, 2018)

I am just trying to figure out why American steel cannot compete with Canadian steel.

Are Canadians just that much better workers than Americans? Or have their steel companies just invested in more modernization than American steel companies?


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## Indeependent (Mar 3, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...


Automation!
No wonder it still takes the same amount of people to build a house or a skyscraper!
Seriously, I was expecting you to post a car wash.


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## busybee01 (Mar 3, 2018)

Correll said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Yes we do. Also the cost of living in the US is much lower in the US. Look at gas taxes in Europe. Plus the value added tax.

50 years ago Silicon Valley did not exist. Nor did Microsoft. The skills required in this economy is changing. You have no clue what you are talking about. It is if, or but. Are you using a crystal ball?


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## Indeependent (Mar 3, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...


Skills?
Have you noticed that Silicon Valley is interested in cheap labor and not skills?
Because only Indians have skills.
If you're not an Indian, MS won't hire you.


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## task0778 (Mar 3, 2018)

Syriusly said:


> I am just trying to figure out why American steel cannot compete with Canadian steel.
> 
> Are Canadians just that much better workers than Americans? Or have their steel companies just invested in more modernization than American steel companies?



I would venture a guess that labor costs in Canada are significantly lower than they are in the US, thanks mainly to the steelworkers union.   Cheaper labor costs lead to lower prices to get the same profit and voila!   I don't think Canadian workers are any better, and I highly doubt Canadian steel companies are more modernized.   Although on 2nd thought that could be, if the steelworkers union has language in their contracts that says the steel companies can only do so much automation.


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## busybee01 (Mar 3, 2018)

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



You are the fool. Trade imbalances are a sign of strength not weakness. Mexico has a trade surplus with the US. The standard of living in Mexico is horrible. Is that what you want. Also trade figures do not take into account certain things. The iPhone is assembled in China but the engineers are in the US. Without them there is no iPhone yet trade figures cannot account for this.


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## busybee01 (Mar 3, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



You think that the designers of the iPhone live in India? It takes skill to design iPhones and other high tech equipment.


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## busybee01 (Mar 3, 2018)

Correll said:


> eddiew37 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Why don't you fuck yourself. They have a fiduciary duty to do what is best for their shareholders. They are not in existence to create jobs. You keep talking about small increases. It may be easy for you to say that but not so easy for someone else to say., You seem to have no sympathy for the 144 million workers who work in steel using industries.


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## busybee01 (Mar 3, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> TRUMP TARIFF TALK ALREADY HAVING IMPACT: “Business investment depends on predictable policy, & relentless chaos takes its toll even if cooler heads prevail on the policies that the president is tweeting about.”
> 
> IF YOU DON'T SUPPORT PRESIDENT TRUMP YOU'RE NOT A REAL AMERICAN!!!



IF YOU SUPPORT TRUMP YOU ARE UN-AMERICAN!!!


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 3, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> "The United States has an $800 Billion Dollar Yearly Trade Deficit because of our “very stupid” trade deals and policies. Our jobs and wealth are being given to other countries that have taken advantage of us for years. They laugh at what fools our leaders have been. No more!" - President Trump



Trump is a idiot. He doesn't have a clue what he is talking about just as you have no clue.


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## Indeependent (Mar 3, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...


Apple hires the best.
MS, IBM, Oracle, Citibank, Chase, etc... not so much.
And I *did *post MS because Bill Gates started the whole "No one has the skillset except Indians.".


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## busybee01 (Mar 3, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> "If the E.U. wants to further increase their already massive tariffs and barriers on U.S. companies doing business there, we will simply apply a Tax on their Cars which freely pour into the U.S. They make it impossible for our cars (and more) to sell there. Big trade imbalance!" - President Trump just now
> 
> no retreat, baby, no surrender.



Trump is a idiot.


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 3, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > "The United States has an $800 Billion Dollar Yearly Trade Deficit because of our “very stupid” trade deals and policies. Our jobs and wealth are being given to other countries that have taken advantage of us for years. They laugh at what fools our leaders have been. No more!" - President Trump
> ...


I guess we'll find out in a year or so.


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## busybee01 (Mar 3, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



Why don't you shut up boy. Electrolux has suspended their plan to set up a factory in the US because of the expected high cost of steel. You know more than they do? You are a bad joke.


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 3, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



so, you think it takes the same amount of time to build a house now as it did in 1900?  Ok buddy, whatever you tell have to tell yourself.


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## Indeependent (Mar 3, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...


You're joking...1900 was a real bad choice of years.
It takes more people now.


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 3, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
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## Indeependent (Mar 3, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...


It's obvious you never visit the several dozen workers who are constantly expanding your mansion.
You're too busy playing golf.


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 3, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



I try not to get in their way, they are being paid by the hour


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## Indeependent (Mar 3, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...


Like I said, they're working and you're playing golf.
I wasn't being sarcastic.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 3, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Like I said, they're working and you're playing golf.
> I wasn't being sarcastic.



Yep, I have worked hard to get to the point I am financially well off enough and have the right job to take time off work and go golf.  I am the walking, talking example of the American dream.


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## Indeependent (Mar 3, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Like I said, they're working and you're playing golf.
> ...


And it took 100s of people to build a house in 1900.
I mean all those pipes and electrical wires, etc...


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 3, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



If you say so, you are the expert it seems.


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## Indeependent (Mar 3, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...


You're a lazy investor, aren't you?
Did you hand your cash over to a brain dead Financial Adviser who only makes money in a Bull Market?
If so, you're not such a success.
My son makes money in the market no matter what.
Why not go play midnight golf?


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 3, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> You're a lazy investor, aren't you?
> Did you hand your cash over to a brain dead Financial Adviser who only makes money in a Bull Market?
> If so, you're not such a success.
> My son makes money in the market no matter what.
> Why not go play midnight golf?



Of course I have a financial advisor taking care of my investments.  

I also hire a plumber fix my plumbing and a mechanic fix my car and a doctor to treat my COPD.  I guess I am lazy that way too.  

He does amazing work, I have never lost money in any year since I hired him.


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 3, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > You're a lazy investor, aren't you?
> ...


So your Financial Adviser, which my son would never use, is a lazy piece of shit who loses money in a Bear market.
OK.
No wonder tariffs scare you.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 3, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



You do not read very well do you.

Why do you keep talking about your son? Do you not do anything?  Why does anyone on this forum care what your son does?  My son would never use a FA either, but then again he is 15 and does not have a job yet!


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 3, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...


We are discussing your concern over tariffs.
You're a success who's worried about tariffs.
I suggest changing Financial Advisers because people who know how to invest are not concerned about tariffs.
Therefore, your expertise on tariffs affecting you is lacking.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Mar 3, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



I worry about tariffs because they are bad for the country, they will not hurt my investments.   

Some of us care about more than just ourselves.  

You might want to try it some time.


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## Indeependent (Mar 3, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...


Tariffs are good despite the fact that standard investors love high unemployment and workers begging for scraps.


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 3, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Tariffs have not been good since the days of Lincoln.  Times have changed, it is now a global marketplace.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 3, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...



No, I don't know anymore than they do.  I'm just not a political correct establishment douchebag like them.


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## Indeependent (Mar 3, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...


You mean it's an *Asian* marketplace.
And *Bill Gates* is trying to turn it into an *Asian*/*African* marketplace.
I watch his interviews...everyone on earth is an idiot except Bill Gates, every citizen of India and every citizen of Africa.


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## Syriusly (Mar 3, 2018)

task0778 said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > I am just trying to figure out why American steel cannot compete with Canadian steel.
> ...



The same union represents steel workers in Canada and the United States.

United Steelworkers


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## dudmuck (Mar 4, 2018)




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## Toro (Mar 4, 2018)

Syriusly said:


> task0778 said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...



The Canadians aren’t the problem.  The problem is oversupply from Asia.

Trump is just slapping higher trade taxes on all foreigners, which means higher prices for all Americans.


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 4, 2018)

Toro said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > task0778 said:
> ...



Canada is the largest supplier of steel to the US, followed closely by Brazil, which together account for more than 25% of US imports of steel.


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## Correll (Mar 4, 2018)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...




Germany has TWICE the level of manufacturing employment we have.


Is it because they use antiquated manual labor production techniques?


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## Correll (Mar 4, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...





Which in no way challenges my point.


We are never going to be able to fix our trade balance, if the rest of the world is able to just take advantage of US with no push back.


Their national governments would be remiss in their own responsibility to their own citizens, if they did NOT take advantage of a fool with his money, ie US.


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## Correll (Mar 4, 2018)

francoHFW said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...




Germany's behavior, revealed in the WTO airbus ruling, shows that they don't believe that their workers are better, they think they need to subsidize their manufacturers to take American jobs.


Trump Right on Trade Predators

"
Richard Evans of British Aerospace explained: “Airbus is going to attack the Americans, including Boeing, until they bleed and scream.” And another executive said, “If Airbus has to give away planes, we will do it.”

When Europe’s taxpayers objected to the *$26 billion in subsidies* Airbus had gotten by 1990,* German *aerospace coordinator Erich Riedl was dismissive, *“We don’t care about criticism from small-minded pencil-pushers.”*

"



"smaller", "Menial", these are just meaningless buzzwords.  Airplane and car manufacturing is not menial, nor low paying. 


These nations desperately want these jobs. Why do you think that is?


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## Correll (Mar 4, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...




The amount of the increase, with examples have been discussed by other posters. The increases look minor.


A couple of cents on a can of soup. A couple of dozen bucks on a car. 


You really consider that major?


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## eddiew37 (Mar 4, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


You talking to Drumph??


----------



## Correll (Mar 4, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...




1. Standard of living measurements take cost of living into account. We are not number one anymore. 

2. Our percentage of chip manufacturing is dropping due to other nations massively subsidizing their chip manufacturing. Our software is pirated on an industrial scale. 

3. National policy has been focused on building these industries of the future (and not protecting them) while utterly ignoring vast segments of the economy and the people who fill those jobs. That has had horrible human costs to our society, and will continue to as long as we do that.


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## sealybobo (Mar 4, 2018)

Correll said:


> eddiew37 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


I’m not going to say we have some trade imbalances but there’s a right way to fix them and a wrong way. Consequences.

You would need to first point out the specific flaw and then explain how you’re gonna fix it. Trump wants to do what? Sounds like he’s not that bright. Are we going to tariff the shoe industry and help those workers?


----------



## Correll (Mar 4, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...




Not only that, but once the Indian has a management position, he will NEVER hire anyone but more Indians, and only certain ones.


----------



## eddiew37 (Mar 4, 2018)

Correll said:


> eddiew37 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


Correll  Perhaps you can help me here ,,,If the imbalance in our trade with other nations is so obvious   as shown by our 800 billion deficit  what about it can't other nations see and agree with us ??...and  make the changes without being threatened ?  btw  nobody will win a trade war


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## Correll (Mar 4, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > eddiew37 said:
> ...




The flaw, imo, is hidden in the details of a million pages of trade laws and regulations and subsidizes that effectively fixes the trade "game" against US.

It is a broad problem and Trump is addressing it with a broad solution. 


These other nations, they didn't accidentally build trade barriers. They know what they need to do to fix it. 


This is on them.


Or they can blow up world trade and see how they like that.


----------



## Correll (Mar 4, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > eddiew37 said:
> ...




Because that vast amount of money is going into THEIR economies to the benefit of THEIR nations and THEIR citizens.


This covers up all kind of failures on the part of those governments, that they now don't have to address.


Even if a trade war burns down their economies, they can blame President Trump, and lord knows no one in their nations, nor in the world at large will say otherwise.


----------



## Correll (Mar 4, 2018)

task0778 said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > I am just trying to figure out why American steel cannot compete with Canadian steel.
> ...




Unions are a pale shadow of what they once were. Blaming them is really starting to sound less reasonable at this time.


I kind of doubt that Canada is really paying that low of wages.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Mar 4, 2018)

Correll said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...





Correll said:


> Germany has TWICE the level of manufacturing employment we have.



So what? What's your point?


----------



## Correll (Mar 4, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > eddiew37 said:
> ...





The last 50 years shows that US workers are not served by the status quo.


I was talking about what is best for their shareholders.


These corporations are part of American society. 


Before they decide to fuck Americans over a few cents a ton, they should consider the response from those Americans.

Good Will, a Good Image, are assets.


----------



## JoeB131 (Mar 4, 2018)

Correll said:


> You look around you, at your peers and extended family, do you seriously not see a need for more and better jobs?



No, i see the need for fair wealth distribution.  

But the thing is, your Daddy's factory job is gone. Replaced by a machine a long time ago, not a Chinaman.


----------



## JoeB131 (Mar 4, 2018)

Correll said:


> The last 50 years shows that US workers are not served by the status quo.
> 
> 
> I was talking about what is best for their shareholders.
> ...



Actually, those Americans will go to WalMart and buy the Chinese product made with non-tariff steel and aluminum, which will now be cheaper to buy because of Trumpenfuhrer's tariffs.  

TRADE WARS DON'T WORK!!!  

You know what will work? Invest in the education and infrastructure to make our industries competitive. This is what the Chinese did, and they are kicking our asses.  This is what India did, and they are moving up fast.


----------



## Correll (Mar 4, 2018)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...





It's proof that our current shit manufacturing employment is NOT  a result of the level of automation technology.


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 4, 2018)

Correll said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...



Racist much?


----------



## eddiew37 (Mar 4, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > You look around you, at your peers and extended family, do you seriously not see a need for more and better jobs?
> ...


Robots are the thing of the future   No holidays no time off for weekends  Americans need more education more training to get those better jobs


----------



## Correll (Mar 4, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Not sure, it could be a caste thing or a sense of loyalty to fellow citizens. 


But I've heard of this behavior from people who deal with Indians in their companies.


The reason for it, doesn't matter much to the Americans who don't get the jobs, now does it?


----------



## Correll (Mar 4, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...




Long term, robots and AI will be a huge challenge for national policy.


Hopefully when that time comes, we can actually address the issue seriously. 


LOL!! That was a joke.



But today, our trade partners are not pissed off because they worry that their robots will be bored.


----------



## JoeB131 (Mar 4, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Racist much?



Naw, he's racist all the time.  I don't think his racism has an off switch.


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 4, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



You just sound like Bernie Sanders. They are business people who do not want to put money into a losing proposition. Nothing politically correct about that.


----------



## busybee01 (Mar 4, 2018)

Correll said:


> eddiew37 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Maybe we should become like Mexico. Too poor to afford anything. Consumers are the reason we have trade imbalances. If they stop consuming our economy collapses.


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## busybee01 (Mar 4, 2018)

Correll said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Who supplies the brains for high tech equipment? Mostly Americans. When you look at trade figures, they do not take that into account. Many employers are begging for people for high tech jobs. The problem we have is a mis-match in worker skills.

Manufacturing will continue to employ fewer workers because of high productivity and high tech equipment. That is not going to change.


----------



## eddiew37 (Mar 4, 2018)

Correll said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


You repubs keep talking jobs when trump and others say we're at full employment


----------



## sealybobo (Mar 4, 2018)

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


You really believe trumps going to do that to business and for workers?


----------



## eddiew37 (Mar 4, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


Hope not sealy  but trumps the kind of ah that'll cut off his nose to spite his face


----------



## sealybobo (Mar 4, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


No he won’t. He’s giving workers lip service same as he did people who want gun reform


----------



## JoeB131 (Mar 4, 2018)

As someone who does purchasing in manufacturing environments, this is the dumbest thing Trump has done yet.  

Raw aluminum or steel is only part of the cost of an item. The others are labor, machine set up, processing and transportation.  

While foreign aluminum or steel machined parts are cheaper because of the labor costs, they're more expensive because of the transportation costs and time delays.

So what Trump has done is make raw material more expensive in this country.  Steel and Aluminum makers in this country won't find a reason to be more competitive in their pricing, but manufacturers of machined parts will be more competitive if they make the machined parts or finished goods in Mexico or China.


----------



## eddiew37 (Mar 4, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> eddiew37 said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


he does speak out of both sides of his mouth,,,,,,"""We'll see"""


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Mar 4, 2018)

Correll said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



It's not proof of anything, dope.
Our economy is magnitudes larger and more diverse than Germany and is at full employment.

Stop waiting for the local plant to take care of you and take care of yourself.


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## bripat9643 (Mar 4, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...



I've already shown that the price increase woud be infitesimal, so the claim about losing money is horseshit.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (Mar 4, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



The only thing you've shown is your ass.


----------



## Camp (Mar 4, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


Plenty of rich guys on news media programs are telling us how infinitesimal pennies on the six-pack of beer or $175 on a car or $50 on a refrigerator is infinitesimal and nothing to worry about. Of course, they are rich and what is affordable and not affordable is relevant to how much wealth you have.


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 4, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


Towards who?
Actually, it's not the fault of the Indians, it's the fault of the greedy business owners and investors.
Good old White Man avarice and greed.
I know plenty of business owners and they have an insatiable hunger


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 4, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> As someone who does purchasing in manufacturing environments, this is the dumbest thing Trump has done yet.
> 
> Raw aluminum or steel is only part of the cost of an item. The others are labor, machine set up, processing and transportation.
> 
> ...


Because those living outside the US should be earning as little as possible!


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 4, 2018)

Camp said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...



The fact is that Trump didn't propose sanctions because of any well thought out strategy.  It was like most everything he does, because he's out of control.  A side facto is that Trump has always used Chinese steel in his buildings so this is just another case of his do as I say not as I do BS.  

He gets pissed off and now that he's lost most of his human punching bags he does this.  What's gonna happen the next time he has a hissy fit?  Nuclear war?  

I'm not saying this as hyperbole either.  He's a walking talking time bomb of a moron.  Tweeting cannot release the steam built up in his yellow head so he's started with world affairs.  No Knowledge of what the consequences might be, just showmanship and bluster.


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## Indeependent (Mar 4, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


Our well thought out policies since Reagan have worked out real well.


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## bripat9643 (Mar 4, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> As someone who does purchasing in manufacturing environments, this is the dumbest thing Trump has done yet.
> 
> Raw aluminum or steel is only part of the cost of an item. The others are labor, machine set up, processing and transportation.
> 
> ...



A 0.5% increase in the cost of a finished good isn't sufficient justification for a any manufacturer to move their production overseas.


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## bripat9643 (Mar 4, 2018)

Camp said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...


Of course, you had no objections to Obama's plan to triple the price of energy in this country.  How much do you think that would affect the price of a refrigerator - especially the cost of owning one?

The above is proof that all you snowflake douchebags whining about this tariff are a bunch of flaming hypocrites.


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 4, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



It is clear from Trump's comments he thought he was punishing China with the steel tariffs, I do not think he is well informed enough to know that we get almost no steel from China.


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## francoHFW (Mar 4, 2018)

Correll said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


Their workers are better, that's why they have more manufacturing jobs and we have 3 to 6 million techie manufacturing jobs going begging. The GOP makes us stupid in order to protect their precious greedy idiot mega-rich a-holes. Try staying on subject.


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## francoHFW (Mar 4, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


Yeah sure... Another brainwashed GOP dingbat....


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## Camp (Mar 4, 2018)

francoHFW said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Camp said:
> ...


Brifingerjellyfaceboy 9643 is our village idiot and as such basically irrelevant.


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## Wickerthing (Mar 4, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > As someone who does purchasing in manufacturing environments, this is the dumbest thing Trump has done yet.
> ...



Where did you get that number?  Where you get all your info?  Try not to fool around back there so much, remember, you still have to go potty sometime.


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## bripat9643 (Mar 4, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


I've done the calculation numerous times in this thread for all you dumbasses who believe Trump's tariff is the end of the world.


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## bripat9643 (Mar 4, 2018)

Camp said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


You find facts to be painful, don't you?


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## bripat9643 (Mar 4, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
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> > Camp said:
> ...



When did he ever say the purpose of the tariff was to punish China?  All you snowflake douchebags just assumed it.


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## debbiedowner (Mar 4, 2018)

Syriusly said:


> task0778 said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...



Maybe they don't negotiate the same contracts since you don't have to provide group health insurance in Canada. Just a guess.


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## debbiedowner (Mar 4, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...



I don't know about that I ordered a computer in 2011 from HP it was made and shipped from China and when it crashed 3 months later HP in U.S. said I'd have to ship back to China to fix.


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## Wickerthing (Mar 4, 2018)

Truth is we don't really know what effect this stuff will have on trade until it happens.  We're already seeing the backlash from other countries who've sworn new tariffs on goods unrelated to steel and aluminum.  That's really what a trade war is.  Unpredictable except that tariffs are by their very nature inflationary. 

Also, we don't know what the global impact might be when other nations look at this.  Just like Trumps demeanor has alienated allies, this will be seen as just more of the same bullying bullshit from the US.  At a time in history that says we need our closest allies more than ever with the threats from N Korea and Russia, this could be seen as punitive to nations like Canada and Mexico and ?  

And the answer to why would the US do this to friendly nations will probably be because Trump is out of control with nobody and no thing to rein him in.  The stock market which he has been taking credit for is feeling the heat and I'll bet Trump won't claim responsibility for that.  Markets hate uncertainty. And, lastly the sudden and solitary nature of the announcement took everybody in the GOP leadership by surprise.  So not a soul in govt and the military has a clue as to what he'll dream up and drop on all of them next.


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## debbiedowner (Mar 4, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Truth is we don't really know what effect this stuff will have on trade until it happens.  We're already seeing the backlash from other countries who've sworn new tariffs on goods unrelated to steel and aluminum.  That's really what a trade war is.  Unpredictable except that tariffs are by their very nature inflationary.
> 
> Also, we don't know what the global impact might be when other nations look at this.  Just like Trumps demeanor has alienated allies, this will be seen as just more of the same bullying bullshit from the US.  At a time in history that says we need our closest allies more than ever with the threats from N Korea and Russia, this could be seen as punitive to nations like Canada and Mexico and ?
> 
> And the answer to why would the US do this to friendly nations will probably be because Trump is out of control with nobody and no thing to rein him in.  The stock market which he has been taking credit for is feeling the heat and I'll bet Trump won't claim responsibility for that.  Markets hate uncertainty. And, lastly the sudden and solitary nature of the announcement took everybody in the GOP leadership by surprise.  So not a soul in govt and the military has a clue as to what he'll dream up and drop on all of them next.



Like I said yesterday probably won't happen especially when he sees most dems are for it.


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## ABikerSailor (Mar 4, 2018)

You know, I was watching the evening news, and there are steel workers out there who are saying that a 25 percent tariff on foreign steel will actually cost jobs here in the USA.

Wow..................not only is Trump going after solar panels, but now he's trying to kill jobs in the metal industries.


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## JoeB131 (Mar 4, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Because those living outside the US should be earning as little as possible!



Funny, I thought the Republican/Libertarian Dream was to have Americans earn as little as possible.


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## busybee01 (Mar 4, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



You are horseshit. All you have shown is what a ignorant child you are. Electrolux was planning to invest $250 million dollars. Your talk is cheap. Go home boy.


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## busybee01 (Mar 4, 2018)

bripat9643 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Let me know when you give facts instead of pulling numbers out of your ass. The CEOs of Budweiser and Electrolux don't seem to agree with you.


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## Indeependent (Mar 4, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Because those living outside the US should be earning as little as possible!
> ...


It is.
I'm not a Republican or a Libertarian...or a Self-Hating White Liberal.


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## JoeB131 (Mar 4, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> It is.
> I'm not a Republican or a Libertarian...or a Self-Hating White Liberal.



No, you are too busy hating brown people. Got it.


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## Correll (Mar 5, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > eddiew37 said:
> ...




I think Germany or Japan would be better models to learn from. They have consumers, trade surpluses, and lots of good paying manufacturing jobs.


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## Correll (Mar 5, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...





1. What good does it do America, if a couple of dozens Americans come up with an idea, and then China steals it and mass produces it?  YOU brought up chip manufacturing, and as I said, due to other government subsidizing it, we are losing that market.


2. Germany has TWICE, the level of manufacturing employment we do. Automation is ONE factor of many. It is not an excuse to give up.


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## Correll (Mar 5, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...




You think that IT guys that were denied IT jobs and are working as retail clerks are happy?


Not all jobs are equal.


More jobs. Better Jobs. Better wages.


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## Correll (Mar 5, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



I think Trump is the only one that even claimed he would try.


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## basquebromance (Mar 5, 2018)

"We are on the losing side of almost all trade deals. Our friends and enemies have taken advantage of the U.S. for many years. Our Steel and Aluminum industries are dead. Sorry, it’s time for a change! MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

We have large trade deficits with Mexico and Canada. NAFTA, which is under renegotiation right now, has been a bad deal for U.S.A. Massive relocation of companies & jobs. Tariffs on Steel and Aluminum will only come off if new & fair NAFTA agreement is signed. Also, Canada must treat our farmers much better. Highly restrictive. Mexico must do much more on stopping drugs from pouring into the U.S. They have not done what needs to be done. Millions of people addicted and dying." - President Trump


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## sealybobo (Mar 5, 2018)

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


That’s why he won. But this trade war sounds like a bad idea.

The government isn’t being unfair. They fought carter Reagan bush Clinton bush and obama too.


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## Erinwltr (Mar 5, 2018)

Every thing that POTUS touches turns into a flaming mess.  It's almost as if it is deliberate.


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## eddiew37 (Mar 5, 2018)

Erinwltr said:


> Every thing that POTUS touches turns into a flaming mess.  It's almost as if it is deliberate.


it's like he's really trying to get voted out in 2020


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## Correll (Mar 5, 2018)

Hutch Starskey said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...





Germany is the fourth largest economy in the world, with similar First World attributes, and thus a good model for comparison.


If Automation was the sole reason for our manufacturing employment problems, then Germany should be in pretty much the same boat as we are.


Yet, they are not. 


This disproves the claim that our problem is unsolvable due to technological issues.


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## Correll (Mar 5, 2018)

francoHFW said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...




1. Their government obviously disagree, or they would not feel they needed to cheat in order to win.


2. Productivity of US workers is better than German. These Are the Most Productive Countries in the World

3. Which party dominates the Education Industry from kindergarten to post grad? HInt: It's not the republicans.

4. My post was completely on topic. Drop the stop rhetorical games.


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## RealDave (Mar 5, 2018)

Correll said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...




You evidently that US workers are rated most productive only because they work more hours, right?
Of course not because you're an idiot.

I live in Republican territory & our school districts are run by REPUBLICANS.  Look at that map you Trumpettes keep parading & look at all those red states.  You brag about how many State legislatures Republicas control & how masny Republican governors there are.  So reaklly, how rthe fuck can you make such an  stupid ignorant comment?

Don't blame your failure in school on Democrats.  Democrats want to properly fund schools & Republicans want to prioperly fund corporations.


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## Indeependent (Mar 5, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > It is.
> ...


Please display a post proving such.


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## basquebromance (Mar 5, 2018)

"To protect our Country we must protect American Steel! AMERICA FIRST!" - President Trump


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## Wickerthing (Mar 5, 2018)

Correll said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



I know we could also learn about gun control from Japan.  Average of just ten gun deaths per year.  Ten!  If you extrapolate out for population diff it's about Thirty.


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## Wickerthing (Mar 5, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> Erinwltr said:
> 
> 
> > Every thing that POTUS touches turns into a flaming mess.  It's almost as if it is deliberate.
> ...



His whole campaign was as if he was trying not to be elected but fools thought they saw something good in his rhetoric and even surprised him.  But the asshole he portrayed on that campaign turned out to be the real deal.  Surprise!


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## basquebromance (Mar 5, 2018)

"Just got a mass email at 9:59 am linking to a CNBC story headlined, "Dow opens more than 100 points lower as trade war fears rattle investors." That's not interesting. What may be interesting is that it was from Paul Ryan's office." - Low Energy Bill Kristol


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## eddiew37 (Mar 5, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> "Just got a mass email at 9:59 am linking to a CNBC story headlined, "Dow opens more than 100 points lower as trade war fears rattle investors." That's not interesting. What may be interesting is that it was from Paul Ryan's office." - Low Energy Bill Kristol


think ryan is worried about those hondas manufactured in his state?


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## busybee01 (Mar 5, 2018)

Correll said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



These countries have much higher savings rates than the US. They have consumers but consumption is not as strong in these countries as in the US.


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## busybee01 (Mar 5, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> "We are on the losing side of almost all trade deals. Our friends and enemies have taken advantage of the U.S. for many years. Our Steel and Aluminum industries are dead. Sorry, it’s time for a change! MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!
> 
> We have large trade deficits with Mexico and Canada. NAFTA, which is under renegotiation right now, has been a bad deal for U.S.A. Massive relocation of companies & jobs. Tariffs on Steel and Aluminum will only come off if new & fair NAFTA agreement is signed. Also, Canada must treat our farmers much better. Highly restrictive. Mexico must do much more on stopping drugs from pouring into the U.S. They have not done what needs to be done. Millions of people addicted and dying." - President Trump



We have large trade deficits because consumers want to buy. NAFTA has been a good thing for the US as it has stopped companies from going to China.. Auto companies build their higher profit vehicles in the US and lower margin cars in Mexico. Many of these parts come from the US. You are aware of the fact we subsidize our farmers as well. The reason there is drugs is because Americans want it. If there was no demand for drugs, there would be no drugs in Mexico. What is Trump going to do about treating drug users in the US?


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## Correll (Mar 5, 2018)

RealDave said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...





1. THe link I posted ranked the nations by gdp *PER HOUR WORKED*, and we were number 5, Germany number 8, so who's the idiot now, asshole?


So, to keep track, your stated reason for US not having twice the level of manufacturing employment, like Germany, was just proved wrong, with hard numbers.



2. I point to the whole industry, the people that do the actual teaching, the ones that implement polices, the ones that come up with policies, and you point to politicians, as though liberals follow orders they don't like.


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## Correll (Mar 5, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...





At another time I would be happy to discuss what we could learn from Japan or Germany with regard to gun control.


This thread the issue is trade policy. 


Why do you want to distract from my previous point? You hit the reply button, but absolutely NOTHING in your post addressed anything in my post that you "replied to".



Think about that. You felt a need to distract from my point, not to challenge it.


The obvious conclusion is that you know that I am right, and you are too deeply invested emotionally in your position to admit that.


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## Correll (Mar 5, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...




You seem to be assuming that if they consumed MORE that they would choose to consume imported goods and services.


What do you base that on?


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## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 5, 2018)

william the wie said:


> Actually there are schools with positive returns MIT being the most famous


*Cash Cows for Corporate Cowboys*

Because of the grand larceny of corporate patents, the smartest graduates get the lowest percentage of what they produce.  The Low-IQs MBA thugs who bully them want them to only consider that they make more than other graduates, but anyone with pride would realize that a realistic slogan replacing "If you're so smart, why aren't you rich?"  would be "If you're so smart, why haven't you made the rich richer?"  Geeks are gutless pushovers.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 5, 2018)

John Shaw said:


> Honestly, I'll admit, I don't know enough about economics to comment on what effect this will have. But just about EVERYONE is saying that it's a pretty bad idea. So I imagine it's probably a pretty bad idea.


*Imprimatur*

We have the best commentators money can buy.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 5, 2018)

Correll said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


*Greatest Graveyard Generation*

Yet we beat them and Japan in World War II, mostly because of our superior economy.  The only independent conclusion that can be made is that in the war, they lost their worst while we lost our best.


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## Wickerthing (Mar 5, 2018)

Correll said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...





Correll said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Think of it as a public service announcement.


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## Correll (Mar 5, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...




Thanks. My point on the topic still stands.




I think Germany or Japan would be better models to learn from. They have consumers, trade surpluses, and lots of good paying manufacturing jobs.


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## basquebromance (Mar 5, 2018)

"Trump's tariff threat may be timed for Pennsylvania U.S. House special election" - Reuters


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## justinacolmena (Mar 5, 2018)

Trump is slapping tariffs on imported steel and aluminum.

There is a lot more to this than meets the eye.

Illegal aliens have been sabotaging our domestic steel, aluminum and other manufacturing facilities and general capabilities.
Germany and the European Union, who are supposed to be U.S. "allies" are once again engaging in the German trifecta of domestic industrialism, trade protectionism, and mercantilism, running a pernicious trade surplus at the expense of the U.S., Greece, Spain, Ukraine, and other so-called "profligate nations" -- I actually heard Jean-Claude Juncker use that phrase on international television.
The U.S. press has been subtly mocking the recently formed 21st-century German//EU//Canadian Axis as "the nations."
The economy in the U.S. has been in horrible shape since 2008 -- a Second Great Depression is no exaggeration -- and all reports of improvement in the economy so far appear to be lies.

No. Tariffs do not improve the economy. They are punitive and, on the part of the U.S., retaliatory against Europe, Canada, and the rest of the German Axis for the harshly imposed VAT and other tariffs already long since placed on goods exported from the U.S.

This is serious business. Punitive tariffs are the point where a trade war tends to escalate to military conflict. World War Three. Except that the Germans already have nukes this time around.

Russia? Russia's economy is not well enough to run any significant trade surplus against the U.S., and in fact Russia is pretty much in the same boat as the U.S. on this one, caught between the "thieves in law" and the refusal of the European Union to conduct trade.


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## william the wie (Mar 5, 2018)

In Alaska you wouldn't know that wage push inflation and faster compounding of house value than during the last bubble is already here where I live.


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## frigidweirdo (Mar 5, 2018)

justinacolmena said:


> Trump is slapping tariffs on imported steel and aluminum.
> 
> There is a lot more to this than meets the eye.
> 
> ...



Okay, so what has Germany done in regards to steel that justifies the US putting tariffs on steel from the EU? 

You didn't source anything. You're just saying stuff.


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## Wickerthing (Mar 5, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> "Trump's tariff threat may be timed for Pennsylvania U.S. House special election" - Reuters



Yeah, that's a fine reason to start a trade war.  Are you okay with that?


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## TheOldSchool (Mar 5, 2018)

justinacolmena said:


> Illegal aliens have been sabotaging our domestic steel, aluminum and other manufacturing facilities and general capabilities.


No commentary or anything on illegal immigration here.  Just wondering how in the world you think illegals are sabotaging our steel, aluminum, and other manufacturing facilities?


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## francoHFW (Mar 5, 2018)

Correll said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


We still have 3 2 six million technical jobs going begging because the GOP blocks spending money on training and education for workers, unlike Germany, and we also don't have other government support for industry, like subsidies, all to save the greedy idiot mega-rich GOP from paying their fair share in taxes, dupe. 35 years of slowly ruining the middle class and the country. Great job GOP.


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## francoHFW (Mar 5, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...


They have a living wage and higher pay in general so they're not living hand-to-mouth like our poor Schmucks in our Pander to the Pandora to the rich GOP country.


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## francoHFW (Mar 5, 2018)

francoHFW said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


After 20 years of GOP BS we had negative saving rates in the middle class under w. Great job!


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## Wickerthing (Mar 5, 2018)

francoHFW said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



The GOP  The party of the mantra.  Repeat something loud and often and all the sheep will bleat back in acceptance.  Mushroom Cloud!  WMDs!  Support the Troops!  Make America Great Again! by electing a moron.  etc etc.


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## francoHFW (Mar 5, 2018)

RealDave said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


Seems to me the teachers are Democrats at least the good ones LOL and the administrators are Republicans and gym teachers...


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## Supposn (Mar 6, 2018)

Justinacolmena, refer to Wikipedia's article entitled “Import Certificates”.
Annual trade deficits are always net detrimental to their nations' GDPs and thus to some extent detrimental to their numbers of jobs.
For more than a half-century, regardless of how well or how poorly USA's economy has performed, (due to our chronic annual trade deficits) our GDP and numbers of jobs within each of those years was less than otherwise.

I'm opposed to USA current seeking a policy of pure free trade that entirely tolerates annual trade deficits of goods.

Although we all benefit from cheaper imported goods, annual trade deficits' net detriments to USA's economy is primarily to the financial net detriment of USA's aggregate employees, their dependents, and enterprises more dependent upon the financial conditions of those segments of USA's population.

[Employees are (statistically) USA entire bottom fifth, if not the entire bottom quarter of all USA income earners and they are (by a vast plurality the majority of all USA's income earners. The working poor and their dependents are among the poorest of USA's employed, or unemployed, or self-employed segment of USA's population.]

All this justifies USA adopting the unilateral trade policy described within Wikipedia's article entitled “Import Certificates”. The policy is more market rather than government driven; it's entire net costs are passed onto USA purchasers of imported goods. All direct net costs beyond governments fees that are (by law) limited to defraying federal direct expenditures due to the policy, serve as an indirect but effective subsidy of USA's exports at no additional cost to anyone.

Respectfully, Supposn


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## JoeB131 (Mar 6, 2018)

Correll said:


> I think Germany or Japan would be better models to learn from. They have consumers, trade surpluses, and lots of good paying manufacturing jobs.



Okay.

They also have - 

Strong unions. 
Socialized Medicine
High taxes on the rich.
Massive investment in education and infrastructure

All those liberal things you hate.


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## JoeB131 (Mar 6, 2018)

Correll said:


> Germany is the fourth largest economy in the world, with similar First World attributes, and thus a good model for comparison.
> 
> 
> If Automation was the sole reason for our manufacturing employment problems, then Germany should be in pretty much the same boat as we are.
> ...



Germany is also part of the EU, the biggest free trade operation in the world.  

Germany succeeds because of Free Trade.


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## Correll (Mar 6, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> "Trump's tariff threat may be timed for Pennsylvania U.S. House special election" - Reuters





Morons. If it was timed for the elections, he would have done it the first fucking week so that the effects would have been seen.


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## Correll (Mar 6, 2018)

francoHFW said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...




1. We'v been throwing money at "training" for decades, it's become nothing but a buzzword, not a real policy.

2. So you admit that our trade deficits are caused by our trade "partners" subsidizing their industry. Good for you. Now explain why we should just let them fuck US like that, without any response.


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 6, 2018)

Correll said:


> 2. So you admit that our trade deficits are caused by our trade "partners" subsidizing their industry. Good for you. Now explain why we should just let them fuck US like that, without any response.



Whomever told you the US did not subsidize industries was lying to you. 

We have a trade deficit because the citizens of this country have the financial power to buy things from other countries.  Just like the trade deficit you have with your grocery store.


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## Dragonlady (Mar 6, 2018)

Correll said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Notice that the two most successful economies post WWII are Germany and Japan. Both had their heavy manufacturing bombed back to the Stone Age and had to rebuild post-war.  

The US was the only major economy post-war that didn’t lose its heavy manufacturing in the war. So it had the oldest equipment. 

Then there’s the education system. Yours has never been great, until you get to universities, but the conservatives has villified the public education system, teachers and curriculum and starved it for cash since Reagan was President. 

Americans had better education before they had “choice”. With Charter schools, religious schools (many of which deny science), and home schooling, starvingbthevpublic system of cash, your rankings are sinking like a stone.  There are 5 million jobs unfilled because Americans lack the skills to do them. 

Last but certainly not least there’s “bottom line” management. The idea that corporations don’t have to be good citizens.  Their only goal is profit.  That Shareholders matter more than employees or the larger community.  In other countries we value people more than profits.


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## Correll (Mar 6, 2018)

francoHFW said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...




The Administrators are even more likely to be dems. 


Do you even know any teachers?


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## Correll (Mar 6, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > 2. So you admit that our trade deficits are caused by our trade "partners" subsidizing their industry. Good for you. Now explain why we should just let them fuck US like that, without any response.
> ...





1. I'm not sure what penny ante crap you are referring to, but if we are, the results show we are doing it very badly, and it does not change the fact that our trade policy needs drastic change.


2.  German consumers aren't free to buy shit? Japanese consumers aren't free to buy shit? Chinese consumers aren't free to buy shit?


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## Correll (Mar 6, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...





All valid points of discussion, but none of them address MY POINT, that just saying "automation" is NOT a reason to give up on Manufacturing.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 6, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > "Trump's tariff threat may be timed for Pennsylvania U.S. House special election" - Reuters
> ...


*Chickenhawk Economics*

Are you afraid of competition?  That's all a "trade war" is.  Only those with contempt for America's potential would believe we'd lose it.


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## william the wie (Mar 6, 2018)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...



The half-witted analysis of the ghost of Smoot-Hawley is the problem. The famous tariff was supposed to increase agricultural production during the Dust Bowl. In other words this tariff was supposed to make it rain. It Failed, surprise, surprise. That Smoot-Hawley was stupid is true but not as stupid as its use for a refutation of all tariffs.


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## Indeependent (Mar 6, 2018)

william the wie said:


> The Sage of Main Street said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


I’ve seen otherwise by people who claim the published numbers are doctored up by globalists.


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## francoHFW (Mar 6, 2018)

Correll said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


 Bulshit idiot. Must save greedy idiot mega-rich brainwashers from paying their fair share, right dupe ? And of course we don't tax our giant corporations enough either , a subsidy in itself...


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## francoHFW (Mar 6, 2018)

Correll said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...


I was a teacher for 10 years...


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## busybee01 (Mar 6, 2018)

Correll said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



German and Japanese people are free to consume but there is no consumer culture as there is in the US. Both countries have higher savings rates than the US. The Japanese government has tried to encourage more consumption but has largely failed. China is essentially a third world country. Per capita income is closer to that of a third world country.


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## sealybobo (Mar 6, 2018)

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


Oh yes Trump has no problem saying something that isn't true.

I saw this and thought of you

On Inauguration Day, President Trump stood in front of the U.S. Capitol and vowed that his “America First” agenda would bring jobs back to the United States.

“We must protect our borders from the ravages of other countries making our products, stealing our companies and destroying our jobs,” he declared, adding: “We will follow two simple rules — buy American and hire American.”

Looking on from the front of the stage was Trump’s daughter Ivanka, the celebrity and fashion entrepreneur who would soon join him in the White House.

The first daughter’s cause would be improving the lives of working women, a theme she had developed at her clothing line. She also brought a direct link to the global economy the president was railing against — a connection that was playing out at that very moment on the Pacific coast.

As the Trumps stood on stage, a hulking container ship called the OOCL Ho Chi Minh City was pulling into the harbor of Long Beach, Calif., carrying around 500 pounds of foreign-made Ivanka Trump spandex-knit blouses.

Another 10 ships hauling Ivanka Trump-branded shoes, cardigans and leather handbags bound for the United States were floating in the north Pacific and Atlantic oceans and off the coasts of Malta, Malaysia, Japan, South Korea and Yemen.

Those global journeys — along with millions of pounds of Ivanka Trump products imported into the United States in more than 2,000 shipments since 2010 — illustrate how her business practices collide with some of the key principles she and her father have championed in the White House.

She talks about working women. Her father says “buy American.” We go inside Ivanka Inc.


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## Wickerthing (Mar 6, 2018)

Yeah, and her father's line of Shirts and ties was more of the same as was his use of Chinese steel in his buildings.  Remember that episode of Letterman when The Donald was touting his America First bullshit and Dave showed him his own clothing's labels with Made in China and Made in Bangladesh.  

He was speechless and turned redder than he already is as the audience laughed at him.  It was so revealing of who and what he is.  A third-rate conman who lies through his teeth at every opportunity just so long as it means money in his pocket.  

It's that part of him, the greed and the lying that makes him a prime target for being compromised by Putin.  Something he perceives as threatening is being held over his yellow head and it's his outrageous ego that has kept him from admitting certain things and thereby reducing the food for blackmail.  But I also think there's a very sizeable financial connection between the two.  

I think it will be shown that massive money laundering through his many businesses took place over more than a decade.  There simply is NO other explanation for the innaction and failure to confront putin's Russian Govt for the Meddling in our democracy.  

If those on the right would be truly honest with themselves they would no doubt admit that No other President would be acting this way toward an enemy who continues to fuck with our elections and our sovereignty.


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## francoHFW (Mar 6, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...


In the 35 years since Reagan screwed up our tax rates to Pander to the riches, our rate of saving that's gone totally to hell, stupid. Under Bush it was negative. Before the corrupt 2008 bush World depression...


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## Doc1 (Mar 6, 2018)

francoHFW said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Run along Karl, you lost.


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## Correll (Mar 6, 2018)

francoHFW said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...





1. My point on "training" stands.

2. My point on our trade "partners" subsidizing their industry stands. YOu have not explained why we should let them fuck US.

3.  We do tax corporation plenty. Does the U.S. have the highest corporate tax rate in the free world?


"But whereas the statutory rate is relatively straightforward and uncontroversial, different, reputable organizations have published very different estimates of the effective tax rate that corporations pay.

The most recent estimate comes from the World Bank and International Finance Commission, which put the United States’ effective rate for 2014 at 27.9 percent. That’s second-highest behind New Zealand among OECD countries and 15th-highest among the 189 countries measured.

In 2011, the Tax Foundation published a survey of 13 prior estimates of the United States’ effective tax rate from 2005 to 2011. All 13 studies pegged the U.S.’s rate as above average, but none had the U.S. rate first overall.

Another 2011 study by the Congressional Research Service put the U.S. effective rate at 27.1 percent, slightly lower than the OECD average of 27.7 percent."


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## Correll (Mar 6, 2018)

francoHFW said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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Then why you talking shit about administrators being republicans? Were you teaching in freaking Alaska or rural Montana?


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## Correll (Mar 6, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...





German consumers, Japanese consumers, Chinese consumers, consume what is available to them, which is a result of trade policy.


Just like we do.


You've done nothing to support your claim that "consumer culture" is the cause of our trade deficit.


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## francoHFW (Mar 6, 2018)

Doc1 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...


Because of totally misinformed Dupes like you Gomer.


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## francoHFW (Mar 6, 2018)

Correll said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> > Correll said:
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Rural upstate New York five or six schools.


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## francoHFW (Mar 6, 2018)

Correll said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


Because I know what I'm talking about, not just parroting High School grad bought off GOP pundits, dupe. Our problems aren't due to liberals, but due to lying scumbag GOP propaganda and idiots like you..
.


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## francoHFW (Mar 6, 2018)

Correll said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
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> > Correll said:
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Blah blah blah... But You dupes always talk about Airbus but Boeing very often pays nothing in taxes...Boeing Paid No Federal Income Tax Last Year: Analysis | HuffPost


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## JoeB131 (Mar 7, 2018)

Correll said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > "Trump's tariff threat may be timed for Pennsylvania U.S. House special election" - Reuters
> ...



Actually, it's more that he's panicking now that the race has tightened, and the dumb rednecks in that district are realizing the jobs aren't coming back.


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## JoeB131 (Mar 7, 2018)

Correll said:


> All valid points of discussion, but none of them address MY POINT, that just saying "automation" is NOT a reason to give up on Manufacturing.



Except no one is giving up on manufacturing. 

It's just that manufacturing, due to Automation, Six Sigma, process improvement, and so on, 

Plant I worked at from 2008 to 2015, they went from 300 employees down to 60 before they moved the last 60 to Malaysia.  Most of these people were not white dudes who vote for Trump. Most of them were Indian and Hispanic ladies.  (I used to joke that a lady named Maria Patel would be our average employee, because half of them were named Maria and half of them were named Patel). 

The rest of those jobs were eliminated because we got new machines (I purchased some of them) and used 5S processes to make assembly lines more efficient.  

But even with all of that, it was still cheaper to produce stuff in Malaysia.


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## sealybobo (Mar 7, 2018)

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


So why is his top economic advisor leaving? They say trumps talk about tariffs had something to do with it. 

David dennison


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## basquebromance (Mar 7, 2018)

"From Bush 1 to present, our Country has lost more than 55,000 factories, 6,000,000 manufacturing jobs and accumulated Trade Deficits of more than 12 Trillion Dollars. Last year we had a Trade Deficit of almost 800 Billion Dollars. Bad Policies & Leadership. Must WIN again!" - President Trump


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 7, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



Yes, Cohn does not agree with the tariffs and also Trump did not consult any of his actual economic advisors about the tariffs, he just told the world he was going to do it.   I do not blame the guy for leaving,  what is the point of being an economic advisor if your advice is not sought nor followed.


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## basquebromance (Mar 7, 2018)

President Trump has the spine to say: "wait a minute fellas, we've been taken advantage of for far too long"


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## eddiew37 (Mar 7, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


I've read where Trump confronted Cohen and demanded he support his tariff BS .......Cohen refused to kiss the morons ring  ....and trump looses a good man


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

francoHFW said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


Must suck being fired so many times.


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


Because cheap labor does not demand fiscal ingenuity.


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## eddiew37 (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


people get greater opportunities and move on ........son is 30 and has worked for 5 different companies   each time getting a greater salary


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


Really?
Automation reduces the need for the overall workforce.


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


Wait a few years and no one will hire him due to job hopping.
I’ve seen the same happen time and again.


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## basquebromance (Mar 7, 2018)

Trump says he will impose tariffs "in a very loving way," although the tariffs say they are not allowed to discuss it or release the pictures under the terms of their NDA.


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> eddiew37 said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



The days of staying with the same firm/company are long gone.  Recruiters/headhunters actively go after people from other companies to get them to jump ship.  It is the new norm


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > eddiew37 said:
> ...


I bet *you* would never hire a job hopper for a professional position.


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## eddiew37 (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


Indy  as my son went from job to job he picked up much experience  as well as more salary....at the age of 30 this is all well and good to me Perhaps at the ages of 40 or 45 you sit still


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



I do not hire anyone, I purposely choose a position with no administrative duties/powers over anyone.   I had my fill of being responsible for other people night and day for 20 years.  

But I can say that where I work they have no trouble poaching from other companies and other companies have no issue doing it from us. I have been out of "job hunting mode" for 5 years and I still have other companies reaching out to me via LinkedIn and other sources. 

Today's business world is much like the sports world, free agency is the thing.


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...


]
If he’s a professional based on academic achievement, he better stay put, because within 5 years no one will hire him.
If he’s blue collar, which does not infer a lack of advanced techical knowledge, he may be okay, but he will be dropped like a stone out of the white collar world.
If Trump is successful in making America for Americans and LEGAL immigrants alone, he might be OK.


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...


It depends on the type of position.
Your story doesn’t work in the NYC/LI vicinity.


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## eddiew37 (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> eddiew37 said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


Ruby Python Java  mean anything to you  ?  Knowledge will always be king   Beach time cu all later


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > eddiew37 said:
> ...


You’re joking...
There are a billion Indians waiting to take that job and Trump is currently making it more difficult than ever for your son to be replaced.
And yes, there are dozens of books on Amazon to learn those skills in 24 hours.
I’m a System Architect and Developer.
“Ruby In Rails”!  Fucking C.
But I’m in favor of your son having that career though by the time he’s 35 he’ll be toast.
I hope he specializes in one industry as that will help his chances to remain employed.


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> eddiew37 said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



You have real hardon for Indians. did one take your job or something?


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## sealybobo (Mar 7, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> President Trump has the spine to say: "wait a minute fellas, we've been taken advantage of for far too long"



Have "we" been taken advantage of?  Who's "we"?  The corporations have benefitted from NAFTA.  They are the makers.  You are just a taker.  What, are we supposed to pay more just so you can make our shoes?  Did you cry that we should tariff shoes so you could continue to be a Cobbler?  

Do you see where I'm going with this?  You want to make cars and copiers in America?  Well that's going to mean higher costs.  And then it's also going to mean a trade war.

Anyways, I doubt very much that Trump wants to hurt business so he can help workers.  

Trump has to pretend not to give up on these things that he promised but he knows what he is suggesting is impossible.  Same with his wall.  He will keep pushing for it but he knows it's never going to happen.

Saying his border wall is the "least important" topic

The transcripts say that Trump told Peña Nieto that the border wall is "the least important thing we are talking about, but politically this might be the most important."

This is a startling admission from a president who at rallies led his supporters in chants of "build the wall."

But the wall was important to his base. Although it has not been popular nationally — a February poll from the Pew Research Center found that 62 percent of Americans oppose such a wall — it polled well among conservative Republicans, with 80 percent approving.

Asking Peña Nieto to stop talking about not paying for the wall

Trump repeatedly assured his supporters that Mexico would pay for the border wall. Peña Nieto disagreed; on Jan. 25, the Mexican president told his nation in a televised address that they "would not pay" for the wall, according to The Los Angeles Times.

In the call with Peña Nieto on Jan. 27, Trump asked him to knock it off: "If you are going to say that Mexico is not going to pay for the wall, then I do not want to meet with you guys anymore because I cannot live with that."

Trump also said he had to push for Mexico to pay for the wall because he had promised it for so long.

"I have to have Mexico pay for the wall — I have to," he said. "I have been talking about it for a two-year period."


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > eddiew37 said:
> ...


They took 3 million jobs; good for your portfolio.
And since Obama, they have been taking Accounting, Attorney and University jobs away from Americans.
But I know you don’t care as long as you have yours.
And in case you’re wondering, most of those people voted for the Orange Clown.


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> They took 3 million jobs; good for your portfolio.
> And since Obama, they have been taking Accounting, Attorney and University jobs away from Americans.
> But I know you don’t care as long as you have yours.
> And in case you’re wondering, most of those people voted for the Orange Clown.



Exactly how did they "take" the jobs?  What does that even mean?

My wife works with a couple Indian doctors at her hospital, did they take the jobs from American doctors?


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > They took 3 million jobs; good for your portfolio.
> ...


Yes, they did.
It’s obvious you never worked in that capacity.
Since 2004, businesses were no longer required to interview Americans for any IT related positions.
Every year, hundreds of thousands of non-Indians, both business visas and citizens, were laid off and replaced by plane loads of Indian H1-Bs, without so much as an interview being required.
Trump and Sanders ran on this platform so it’s obvious you didn’t watch any of their interviews or speeches.
Trump is now requiring interviews and Indians are being sent back home.
It’s amazing how everyone I know in my 2 Temples, even those working in non IT capacities, know this.
And *you* don’t.
Yeah...


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > They took 3 million jobs; good for your portfolio.
> ...


And yes, as businesses buy out private practices and hospitals, Indians are replacing non-Indian physicians.
Indians are happy to take half the salary and prescribe twice the wrong medication.
And once again, *everyone* knows this.
But *you* don’t.
Yeah...


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



So, this does not explain why the Indians were being hired over everyone else.


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



The Indian doctors at my wife's hospital are some of the best there, and they are all on the same contract as every other doctor there. 

 I think you make a lot of claims that have no basis in reality.


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## harmonica (Mar 7, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


bad analogy---


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 7, 2018)

harmonica said:


> bad analogy---



Why?


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...


15K/year
24/7 availability
Complete compliance (they take shit from boss man).
They don’t point out legal infractions.
You ever wonder why it’s almost impossible to prove a financial institutionnis doing something illegal.
Non-Indians put activity auditing and wouldn’t take it out because that’s illegal.
Indians know zip and will do what they’re told.


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



So, they are willing to work for less and do what the company wants them to do.   I cannot imagine why anyone would want to hire someone like that. 

Good thing you are getting the government to step in and interfere with private businesses to stop that.


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...


Tell me what MS, Oracle and IBM have accomplished since 1998.
When the market crashed in 2008 the Indians were let go but weren’t sent home.
They simply replaced millions of minorities in the workforce.
And after Bill Gates finished telling the world that any non-Indian that was replaced was because they were lacking the skillset to even take a shit, millions of Americans can’t get jobs.


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## harmonica (Mar 7, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > bad analogy---
> ...


you are comparing countries' systems/etc to yours?
to make it simple:
hey--companies cut cost even when they MAKE $$$$
the US government spends more when they are in debt


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...


Because what’s good for Wall Street is ...?


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## bendog (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


Yet we have full employment?


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

bendog said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Golfing Gator said:
> ...


Same question...serving food for $9.00/hr?


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## EvilEyeFleegle (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> bendog said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Some must serve....and some get served..nature of the beast.  Not sure why you're so on about the Indians...but I've hired a few..at prevailing wage....and they worked out great. To tell you the truth..they seem pretty acclimated to our culture and ways---and fit right in. Great work ethic.

As far as working for less..not seen it--in fact, these guys are well aware of their worth in the market..and if they don't get paid according to that worth, they leave.

Sad to say, there are not all that many STEM trained Americans in the market..as opposed to the demand. Many Americans do NOT have the skill-set...sad, but true.

I think your initial premise to be fatally flawed. Indians are not being "hired over everyone else".

BTW...where in the heck can you find anyone to work at 15k a year? I totally reject that figure in any professional field. Which seems to be the topic. Even the McD's worker makes more.


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## bendog (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> bendog said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


And the question, how can Canadian workers make steel cheaper?  Answer, Canada provides healthcare at 1/4 the cost.  You blame them for our workers being not as competive, so yeah, $9 an hour.


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

EvilEyeFleegle said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > bendog said:
> ...


Bullshit.


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

bendog said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > bendog said:
> ...


I’m not in Canada...next!
I presume Canada does not allow frivolous lawsuits against MDs.


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## EvilEyeFleegle (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> EvilEyeFleegle said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


*THAT'S*  all you got? Loser. Please to cogently rebut anything that I said..or concede that you don't know shit about any of this and that you're just another hack...perpetrating a fraud.


----------



## jillian (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> bendog said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



most jurisdictions provide that a panel hear proposed medical malpractice suits prior to plaintiff's attorney being allowed to commence an action. so I'm not quite sure what "frivolous" cases you're talking about. Plaintiff's lose sometimes... that does not mean their case was "frivolous".

and if a case IS "frivolous" it's up to defendant to make a motion to dismiss....


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

jillian said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > bendog said:
> ...


Why do you think the average MD pays between 120K - 200k, post tax, for Liability Insurance?


----------



## EvilEyeFleegle (Mar 7, 2018)

jillian said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > bendog said:
> ...


To some, any malpractice suit is frivolous---they think that MD's should be able to say, "oops", and continue on the path to golf course heaven.


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

EvilEyeFleegle said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


In the Internet age, it’s a lot easier to filter out the charlatans.


----------



## EvilEyeFleegle (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


Because all pay for the mistakes of a few...no question that tort reform is needed. I've always advocated for an impartial arbitration board---oddly, the insurance industry is opposed. Still, Accountability on some level is required for the Medical industry.


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## bendog (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> bendog said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


How sweet for you.  But don't bitch about other countries having more productive workers.  God didn't say I had to pay more to make the world fair.


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## harmonica (Mar 7, 2018)

so the Japanese imported/imports Yamaha/Honda/etc for years and told us FU when we wanted to export rice to Japan
that's real fair
Japanese Officially Reaffirm Support of Rice Import Ban


----------



## bendog (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


So we need tariffs to protect our inefficiencies?  Is that your final answer or would you like to utilize a lifeline?


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

EvilEyeFleegle said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...


I agree.
I still see doctors covering up for each other.


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## Doc1 (Mar 7, 2018)

francoHFW said:


> Doc1 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...




Sure thing Karl.


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## francoHFW (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


I was  a substitute for several years. After teaching in a private school for several years not enough money.


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## bendog (Mar 7, 2018)

harmonica said:


> so the Japanese imported/imports Yamaha/Honda/etc for years and told us FU when we wanted to export rice to Japan
> that's real fair


No one said we should not retaliate for unfair competition.  But what Trump, and you, are saying is I should pay more to protect inefficient American workers.  Fuck that.


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

bendog said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > bendog said:
> ...


Huh?
Who’s more productive than America?
And please define “productive”.
In economics, productive is defined as cost, not quality.


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## francoHFW (Mar 7, 2018)

Doc1 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Doc1 said:
> ...


How's the Hillary, Foundation, Obama, holder, etc etc etc prosecutions coming along, fool?


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## harmonica (Mar 7, 2018)

bendog said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > so the Japanese imported/imports Yamaha/Honda/etc for years and told us FU when we wanted to export rice to Japan
> ...


no--for you to  protect countries using just about slave labor


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

bendog said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > so the Japanese imported/imports Yamaha/Honda/etc for years and told us FU when we wanted to export rice to Japan
> ...


Prove they’re less productive.
And the stated purpose of Globalization is to equalize the quality of life for all mankind.
What a crock of shit.


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## sealybobo (Mar 7, 2018)

We should not have given tax breaks back in 2007 to companies going overseas.  We should have told them we would tariff them if they left.  But even that might be difficult to do.  How can you stop a company from moving to Mexico to manufacture there when so many other companies are there manufacturing?  This is a toughy.


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> We should not have given tax breaks back in 2007 to companies going overseas.  We should have told them we would tariff them if they left.  But even that might be difficult to do.  How can you stop a company from moving to Mexico to manufacture there when so many other companies are there manufacturing?  This is a toughy.


I’m sure we have different deals with different nations.
Any firm that offshores should be treated as a foreign entity.


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## jillian (Mar 7, 2018)

EvilEyeFleegle said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...



that's what insurance is. and when a doctor screws up, they cause a lot of damage. the only response to that which I've ever heard from rightwingnuts is to limit damages payable to injured parties.

that is idiotic.... but i'll go with it as soon as doctors can limit the damage they cause when they screw up.


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## jillian (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > We should not have given tax breaks back in 2007 to companies going overseas.  We should have told them we would tariff them if they left.  But even that might be difficult to do.  How can you stop a company from moving to Mexico to manufacture there when so many other companies are there manufacturing?  This is a toughy.
> ...



even trump companies?


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

jillian said:


> EvilEyeFleegle said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


There should be ways to audit a physician’s competency.


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

jillian said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


Fuck Trump.
I voted the platform, not the man.


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## jillian (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> jillian said:
> 
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> > EvilEyeFleegle said:
> ...



competence and negligence are two difference things. A doctor can be quite competent on almost all days but on one day in particular can make a horrible mistake.

the reality is, for there to be malpractice at all, the injury can't be one which is a potential side effect of the doctor's treatment or acts. it has to be something that the patient couldn't have consented to. the whole "tort reform" mentality is fueled by insuance companies which already have extraordinarily high profit margins. Pricing takes into consideration just these things.

but they'd save a lot of money if they actually settled med mal cases more and didn't make them go to trial in most instances.


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## jillian (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



yeah, but the "platform" is venal and run by an amoral lunatic.


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

jillian said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...


Eh.


----------



## harmonica (Mar 7, 2018)

> Our Granite City Works facility and employees, as well as the surrounding community, have suffered too long from the unending waves of unfairly traded steel products that have flooded U.S. markets,


US jobs coming back ALREADY because of the tariffs !!!
Trump's tariff leads U.S. Steel to reopen Granite City steel facility


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## CowboyTed (Mar 7, 2018)

Correll said:


> CowboyTed said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Correll,

The US wasn't looking to screw Europe when they placed in these huge guaranteed loans for Boeing purchases in 2002-3... They were defending American jobs... Guess what EU defend EU jobs too.. 

The facts are that like the US, EU has a few stupid tarrifs too... This happens but what Trump did here was to throw start a pissing war... 

I actually hope the EU does nothing... Tarrifs will cost just US jobs most..

But it must be said with US having real enemies around the world, Trump goes and picks fights with his allies to the point where he will hurt US business and jobs to try and prove a point...

By the way German Steel is make a lot of high carbon-high quality steel used in certain areas... Not all Steel is the same... China's is usually low grade... Japan can make a steel to a standard that no else is making (they also produce some crap too)... 

When US manufacturing is using steel they need certain types of steel, Trump for example used cheap Chinese steel in his buildings, maybe that is what he wanted and the Chinese are good at cheap.

So trying to paint Canada and EU as some kind of enemy is just a joke... They pay their workers well and have different ways of working... US steel jobs have been robbed by automation, since 1990 US Steel production  is only down 12.5% but US Steel Jobs are down 57%


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

CowboyTed said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > CowboyTed said:
> ...


Here’s my take...
I buy mostly German and Japanese products because they get excellent reviews.
I pay more and get a better, longer lasting, product.
Many people who don’t have the chance to make more money buy Chinese shit.
More jobs, more money spent on goods and lower taxes to support welfare programs.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 7, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> President Trump has the spine to say: "wait a minute fellas, we've been taken advantage of for far too long"


*EXX-MOBsters*

No need to address sweatshopping collaborators who are in on the globalist looting.  I've read about the independent oilman who naively warned Jersey Standard (Exxon) in the 60s that we were becoming dependent on Arab oil.  He was right, but the major petrocrats benefited from the fake dependence as much as the jihadist OPECkers did.


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## RealDave (Mar 7, 2018)

Correll said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Trump just subsidized our corporations through his dumbass tax cut.


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## RealDave (Mar 7, 2018)

Correll said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



So, let me get this straight.

You claimed that US workers were the most productive & now you are claiming they are not and ytou have the nerve to call someone else an asshole?  My God.
You flip flop more than your orange hero.


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## bendog (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > EvilEyeFleegle said:
> ...


Oh yeah, that'll fix the HC system.  Come on, you just want to protect people who are not competitive.


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

bendog said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...


There is a world of difference between a *System* and an *Aspect* of a system.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Golfing Gator said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


Hindus are dindus.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


*Why Trust Mamas' Boys Who Don't Earn a Living Until They Are 26?*

Because they get the job only because they can through 8 years of college without a job.  That absurd criterion is why they are incompetent and desperately need insurance to pay for their inevitable mistakes.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 7, 2018)

harmonica said:


> > Our Granite City Works facility and employees, as well as the surrounding community, have suffered too long from the unending waves of unfairly traded steel products that have flooded U.S. markets,
> 
> 
> US jobs coming back ALREADY because of the tariffs !!!
> Trump's tariff leads U.S. Steel to reopen Granite City steel facility


*hillary Worked for Goldwater in 1964, Proof That She's a Mole*

Another blue state being lost by the anti-working-class snobs who took over the formerly Democratic Party.


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...


I belong to a very large community and very few of the MDs I know have ever been sued.
2 were sued for sexual harassment of staff and 1 for Medicare fraud.


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## bendog (Mar 7, 2018)

And it's not even about Jobs.  It's about Trump playing culture wars.  The jobs haven't been there for decades.

MSNBC's Matthews on tariffs: Trump is 'looking out for people that nobody else is'

But hey, it could hold the rust belt for Trump.  And that's what its about.  People who are not comptetive workers looking for a bailout.


----------



## sealybobo (Mar 7, 2018)

jillian said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...



When I see con men like Trump or Billy Graham I wonder how people fall for their crap.  Ok before they are caught fine but how do people still believe in Trump or Billy after it comes out that they are clearly con men and liars?  Trump, after using charity to get rich, not paying contractors, going bankrupt how many times, gaming the system at every turn.  And yet they think this guy is sincere because he said he was?  I just don't get it.  I understand electing someone good to change Washington but I can't believe they believed Trump would be that guy.  He sure sold them through reality tv.  They truly believe he's a good person.

And back to Billy Graham.  How can anyone consider him a real honest and sincere person when he got caught talking to Nixon and saying what he really feels about the Jews?  If you catch a preacher being an asshole secretly, I don't ever want to hear from that guy again.  You can not ask for forgiveness when the reality is deep down you are really a scumbag.  No we can not pretend you never said those things.  

''They're the ones putting out the pornographic stuff,'' Graham said to Nixon - "the Jewish stranglehold has got to be broken or the country's going down the drain,'' he continued.

Graham also confided in Nixon that he hid his true feelings about Jews from them: ''I go and I keep friends with Mr. Rosenthal (then executive editor) at The New York Times and people of that sort, you know. And all -- I mean, not all the Jews, but a lot of the Jews are great friends of mine, they swarm around me and are friendly to me because they know that I'm friendly with Israel. But they don't know how I really feel about what they are doing to this country. And I have no power, no way to handle them, but I would stand up if under proper circumstances.''

Graham, who had a long history of supporting Israel, apologized profusely after the tapes' release and said he had no recollection of the conversation.

"If it wasn't on tape, I would not have believed it," Graham told Newsweek. "I guess I was trying to please. I felt so badly about myself - I couldn't believe it. I went to a meeting with Jewish leaders and I told them I would crawl to them to ask their forgiveness."


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


Because there are *so* many politicians who *aren’t* con men.


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## harmonica (Mar 7, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


because I'm a DUMBASS !!!
hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahha


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## eddiew37 (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...


name 2


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


I can’t; they’re all out for themselves.


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## harmonica (Mar 7, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


List of American federal politicians convicted of crimes - Wikipedia
this is just federal


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## harmonica (Mar 7, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


Blagojevich---big time jackass con man


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## harmonica (Mar 7, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...





> ' last seven governors, four have ended up in prison.


4 of state's last 7 governors went to prison


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## eddiew37 (Mar 7, 2018)

harmonica said:


> eddiew37 said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


he  could run for president,,,,,Republicans  seem to like those kind


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

eddiew37 said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > eddiew37 said:
> ...


Was he for Comparative Advantage?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 7, 2018)

EvilEyeFleegle said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...



He's just parroting the GOP mantra about so-called Tort Reform.  Translated it means protecting the monied from the victims of greed, malpractice and responsibility for what they do and what they sell.  Big Pharma, Big Insurance,  Corporations and every other entity that they take money from at election time.  Another attack on the working poor and middle class.


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> EvilEyeFleegle said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


I think you better start a poor people’s fund to bribe politicians your way.
That’s the way it is.


----------



## sealybobo (Mar 7, 2018)

harmonica said:


> eddiew37 said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



No, list two that haven't been convicted yet.  From the REPUBLICAN side of the isle. 

Or is Trump the only con man in the GOP?


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## Wickerthing (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > EvilEyeFleegle said:
> ...



Do you even get how lame that argument is?  I was making a point about the political power of money vs. the working poor and middle class.  Your solution is to just suck it up because money wins out over responsibility. I don't believe that.  I think there are still very smart folks on the left who will run campaigns without taking bribes.  What a novel idea eh?  If Trump has done anything for this country it's to have motivated folks across the country who would not have otherwise sought political office but for the wrong way demonstrated so graphically by these f'in' thieves.


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## sealybobo (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...



Name two Republicans who are con men but haven't been convicted yet.  You seem to be suggesting that all politicians are con men, not just Trump.  Ok, well let us know who the others are.  Specifically in the GOP.  Or are you going to say there aren't any and then in that case Trump is unique.


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## harmonica (Mar 7, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > eddiew37 said:
> ...


WTF are you talking about??


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## sealybobo (Mar 7, 2018)

harmonica said:


> eddiew37 said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



You had to go back to 2009 to find a con man?  

This is the problem with Republicans.  They have been convinced that all politicians are con men.  Who convinced them of this?  It was the Republicans.  Why?  Because that way whenever they get caught doing something wrong, their faithful followers blow it off.  Why?  Because "all politicians are con men". 

So Republicans can never lose when it comes to their supporters.  They could shoot someone dead in the streets and not lose one supporter.

And Republicans don't care if you get turned off to the whole process and just don't show up to vote at all.  It's the next best thing to getting you to vote for them.  If you aren't going to vote for them at least stay home.  Then they still win.


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## bendog (Mar 7, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


Independent is not an independent but rather a Trumpbot, at least on this issue.

And it's not an economic argument.  The jobs we lost in the 80s and 90s aren't three.  This is a political/cultural move to play to the rust belt.  If other countries close off trade to us, we will see rising costs and falling jobs.


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## sealybobo (Mar 7, 2018)

harmonica said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > harmonica said:
> ...


I said, "i can't believe people would vote for that con man" and someone said basically that they are all con men.  Well, if that's true you should be able to name 2 GOP con men who are currently serving but haven't been caught yet.

I know which ones you will toss under the bus.  Any of them who went against Trump.  LOL.


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## harmonica (Mar 7, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > eddiew37 said:
> ...


hahahaah---*THREE *out of FOUR corrupt/conmen  Il governers !!!!!!!!!!! 
did you not read that??!!!??


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## jillian (Mar 7, 2018)

bendog said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



the problem is Donald and his worshippers hate eduction, expertise and ability. so, what does Donald do, he doesn't listen to the people who actually know anything... and the people he appoints to cabinet level positions are intentionally chosen for their lack of ability.... an intentional fuck you to smart people.


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## Bush92 (Mar 7, 2018)

Another idiot who does not seem that American workers making a paycheck is more important than the portfolios of Soros and Buffet. If your going to be a superpower you need an industrial base. Wall Street thinks all the fucking peasants will live on McDonald and Wal-Mart wages. Guess they think it’s better to destroy an American family so near slave labor can occur in China.


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## Wickerthing (Mar 7, 2018)

jillian said:


> EvilEyeFleegle said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



I couldn't agree more.  To hell with protecting consumers and sick folks.  Protect the folks who do the damage.   That will lead to a better system and better outcomes for future patients, right?   The Paul Ryans of this world are scumbags.


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## Bush92 (Mar 7, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Crixus said:
> ...


Educate yourself. Tariffs long overdue...
Tariffs on steel, aluminum are long overdue


----------



## Bush92 (Mar 7, 2018)

busybee01 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...


Consumers? Of what? Dollar Store products? Traitor assholes at Wal Mart? The best thing that could ever happen to America is shutting down Wal Mart and creating real heavy industry as the driving force behind our economy.


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## justinacolmena (Mar 7, 2018)

Supposn said:


> refer to Wikipedia's article entitled “Import Certificates”



These and similar schemes seem to be widely in use by countries that import U.S. goods, but the idea is *verboten* for the U.S. itself.



Supposn said:


> Annual trade deficits are always net detrimental to their nations' GDPs and thus to some extent detrimental to their numbers of jobs. ... I'm opposed to USA current seeking a policy of pure free trade that entirely tolerates annual trade deficits of goods.



This is a very frustrating subject. "Free trade" advocacy in U.S. political context is almost always in favor of freely accepting imports to the U.S. without any effort to require U.S. trade partners to accept our exports without unfair one-sided tariffs.



Supposn said:


> Although we all benefit from cheaper imported goods, annual trade deficits' net detriments to USA's economy is primarily to the financial net detriment of USA's aggregate employees, their dependents, and enterprises more dependent upon the financial conditions of those segments of USA's population.



I agree with you for the most part. However we have a large permanent underclass in the U.S. who, if they don't have felony records for petty crimes, have mental illness records, or trouble getting along with previous employers, or alleged bad rental history, or for some other reason are permanently excluded from employment and housing. The underclass in the U.S. cannot survive without access to cheap staple goods.

The permanent and irrevocable downward mobility problem in the U.S. must be fixed before we can enforce "our" side of the fair trade bargain against Europe and Asia. *THEY TOOK OUR JOBS AWAY*, and the U.S. government is not willing to give us our jobs back as it proposes to "fix" the trade imbalance.


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


You need therapy.


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

bendog said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


Jerkoff, I see hands on what both “Parties” have done to the US.
I only had two people to vote for and Sanders lost as the nominee.
You’re Canadian?
Then fuck off concerning the US.


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

jillian said:


> bendog said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


Hyperbole much?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



You support a madman and I need therapy?  That's rich.  We'll all see who is or is not delusional very soon.  The investigation into the yellow scourge is heating up and Mueller is getting more and more hard evidence of not only collusion but Money laundering, treason, but it'll be called Conspiracy against the U.S.,  Obstruction of justice, and more than likely tax evasion or other charges of a financial nature.  And all of us on the side of our country will rejoice and toast the end of the yellow scourge and the beginnings of the healing.  And you'll be wondering how on earth you could have been such a fool.  No sympathy from me, you made your bed and now you'll have to just learn to live with those moronic decisions.  I hope it becomes a cautionary tale for all you naive suckers.  Can I interest you in a Tie made in Bangladesh?


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


As I stated earlier today...
Fuck Trump.
I support the platform.
Mueller ain't accomplishing shit except for the huge lulu check he gets every two weeks.
I bet you're drooling at night hoping for "President Pence".
You're such a demented moron.


----------



## sealybobo (Mar 7, 2018)

jillian said:


> bendog said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


Like Ben Carson. I wonder what damage he’s doing or Betsy devos


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## jillian (Mar 7, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > bendog said:
> ...



and that's the least of it.... its the department of state, with Vlad's hand-picked secretary and recipient of the Russian "friendship medal"... where the real problem is.


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## sealybobo (Mar 7, 2018)

jillian said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...


I actually like Rex tillerson.


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## Indeependent (Mar 7, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


Because he's a gentleman...who is a Globalist.


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## Wickerthing (Mar 7, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Hi, .Demented Moron here.  How the fuck do you know what Mueller has or doesn't have?  Just because his sheep can't see what's right in front of them doesn't mean everyone is brain dead.  We haven't had any reason to celebrate lately (since Jan 20) but soon there will be quite a lot to cheer about.  Our country will have carved out the diseased portion of our govt and the healing can begin.  I just hope our allies don't think the whole population is as clueless and out of touch with reality as Trump and his rats who are abandoning the sinking ship of fools are.  Maybe we can mend relationships and apologize for the temporary insanity.  And, BTW if you don't mind I prefer to be called DeMo.  Sounds snappy.


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## Synthaholic (Mar 7, 2018)

This tariff ain’t going to happen. Trump is a weakling, and weaklings always back down.

Mark my words.


----------



## william the wie (Mar 7, 2018)

Actually there is a much simpler way to straighten out the mess. We have many types of brain drain visas and residence permits. Trump should use them to the max to do just that.


----------



## Correll (Mar 8, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...







The irony of a billionaire who has outsourced being the ONLY one who even says he would try, has been repeatedly discussed.


What point do you think that makes?


----------



## Correll (Mar 8, 2018)

francoHFW said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...






8 years of Clinton. 8 years of Obama. Yet no change in the trends.


The policies that are harming US are bi-partisan policies. Both republicans and democrats.


Explain to me why a higher rate of consuming has to mean consuming IMPORTS, and not domestically produced crap.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop (Mar 8, 2018)

*Pence as "Trump Whisperer" *
*GOP Leaders Look to Pence on Tariffs *
“Pence, according to more than a half-dozen White House and Capitol Hill aides, has been quietly delivering messages to the president from Republicans on the Hill, who have publicly opposed the tariffs plan set to be announced as early as Thursday—though he’s made sure to maintain a studiously neutral position,* to the frustration of some who had hoped he would do more to exert influence over Trump*.”


----------



## Correll (Mar 8, 2018)

francoHFW said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...




How much flak you take from those republicans for being a liberal? They shit can your career?


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## Dragonlady (Mar 8, 2018)

Correll said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...



Blaming the consumption of imports on politicians is ridiculous. Americans, like every other population on earth, have a choice. They can buy American. No one is forcing them to buy imports. They buy imports because they’re cheaper. YOU, as in the US population, are the authors of your own misfortune. 

When I bought my new sofa two years ago, I made a point of buying one that was made in Canada. I could have gone to a cheap discount store and bought an import for less, but I wanted something well built which will last. And I wanted to support Canadian companies. 

Studies have routines shown that Canadians will pay a bit more if something is made in Canada. Americans don’t do that. They shop for the lowest possible price. Then they complain about their jobs being off-shored. 

It’s not the government that shipped your jobs overseas, it’s American consumers in their quest for ever lower prices who are largely to blame. 

The US has always valued cheap goods and relied on cheap labour over jobs for their citizens. Your economy was built on slave labour, then “guest workers” who could be shipped home when times got tough, and now illegal immigrants. 

Until Americans start buying American, you’re going to have trade deficits, and off-shoring.


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## Correll (Mar 8, 2018)

francoHFW said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...




Jeez, that's kind of odd. 


You are ridiculing people for being the people you educated....


Do you see that you just insulted yourself?


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## Correll (Mar 8, 2018)

francoHFW said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...





francoHFW said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...




1.  Their point about deferring taxes during a period of high investment seems reasonable. 


2. Are you trying to imply that those tax deferrals balance out the subsidizes our trade "partners" have been doing? The massive trade deficits seem to undermine your claim.


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## Correll (Mar 8, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



Don't know, don't care. If he wasn't up for Trump's America First agenda, he was stupid to get on board in the first place.


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## Correll (Mar 8, 2018)

francoHFW said:


> Doc1 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...




With the political bias revealed in the FBI, gloating about past failed investigations, is not really called for.


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## sealybobo (Mar 8, 2018)

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



I don't think he has a problem with outsourcing.  You probably think he wants to fix the rigged system.  I don't.


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## Correll (Mar 8, 2018)

CowboyTed said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > CowboyTed said:
> ...





"Richard Evans of British Aerospace explained: “Airbus is going to attack the Americans, including Boeing, until they bleed and scream.” And another executive said, “If Airbus has to give away planes, we will do it.”

When Europe’s taxpayers objected to the $26 billion in subsidies Airbus had gotten by 1990, German aerospace coordinator Erich Riedl was dismissive, “We don’t care about criticism from small-minded pencil-pushers.”









> The facts are that like the US, EU has a few stupid tarrifs too... This happens but what Trump did here was to throw start a pissing war...
> 
> I actually hope the EU does nothing... Tarrifs will cost just US jobs most..




If trade deficits/surpluses don't matter, than why would they do anything?





> But it must be said with US having real enemies around the world, Trump goes and picks fights with his allies to the point where he will hurt US business and jobs to try and prove a point...




Loss of jobs, cause real pain to people. White Americans actually had a DECLINE in life span last report. A freaking decline.  

This is not about not being able to afford a new SUV ever other year. People are dying. Whole towns are dying. Lots of them.





> By the way German Steel is make a lot of high carbon-high quality steel used in certain areas... Not all Steel is the same... China's is usually low grade... Japan can make a steel to a standard that no else is making (they also produce some crap too)...
> 
> When US manufacturing is using steel they need certain types of steel, Trump for example used cheap Chinese steel in his buildings, maybe that is what he wanted and the Chinese are good at cheap.
> 
> So trying to paint Canada and EU as some kind of enemy is just a joke... They pay their workers well and have different ways of working... US steel jobs have been robbed by automation, since 1990 US Steel production  is only down 12.5% but US Steel Jobs are down 57%





Automation is not an excuse to let other people US. Germany has TWICE the level of manufacturing employment we have.


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## Correll (Mar 8, 2018)

RealDave said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...




Did you just implicitly  admit my two points you "replied to", but did not challenge?


1. We'v been throwing money at "training" for decades, it's become nothing but a buzzword, not a real policy.

2. So you admit that our trade deficits are caused by our trade "partners" subsidizing their industry. Good for you. Now explain why we should just let them fuck US like that, without any response.


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## Correll (Mar 8, 2018)

RealDave said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...





I was responding to Franco's claim that our workers are poorly trained due to republicans.


He made that claim because he want's to blame American workers for our massive trade deficits.


I blame Trade Policy, ours and our trade "partners", not our workers.


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## easyt65 (Mar 8, 2018)

I just read in a newspaper that a steel production company has opened up its doors and is getting ready to start making US steel again. Making our own steel makes us less dependent on foreign countries, especially those who hate our guts. Oh, the horror.


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## Correll (Mar 8, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...





Politicians craft Trade policy. Putting this on Americans consumers is a dodge.




> When I bought my new sofa two years ago, I made a point of buying one that was made in Canada. I could have gone to a cheap discount store and bought an import for less, but I wanted something well built which will last. And I wanted to support Canadian companies.
> 
> Studies have routines shown that Canadians will pay a bit more if something is made in Canada. Americans don’t do that. They shop for the lowest possible price. Then they complain about their jobs being off-shored.
> 
> It’s not the government that shipped your jobs overseas, it’s American consumers in their quest for ever lower prices who are largely to blame.



Those consumers voted for Trump and his America First agenda, and the Trade Policy that comes with it.





> The US has always valued cheap goods and relied on cheap labour over jobs for their citizens. Your economy was built on slave labour, then “guest workers” who could be shipped home when times got tough, and now illegal immigrants.
> 
> Until Americans start buying American, you’re going to have trade deficits, and off-shoring.





None of that is actually true.


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## Correll (Mar 8, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...




He said he would. He's the only one that said he would.


Just because he did something in the past doesn't mean he won't do something else in the present or the near future.


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## The Derp (Mar 8, 2018)

Correll said:


> Politicians craft Trade policy. Putting this on Americans consumers is a dodge.



The increase to the tariffs will be passed on to consumers.  American steel prices will also rise, not remain flat; that's not how these markets work.  




Correll said:


> Those consumers voted for Trump and his America First agenda, and the Trade Policy that comes with it.



These tariffs are not "America first"; there already are tariffs on Chinese steel and aluminum.  Raising tariffs never results in lower prices or protectionism because American manufacturers just raise their prices too.  You're not creating demand for American steel when you raise tariffs on foreign steel.  It's not an act of protectionism because American steelmakers just raise their prices too.


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## The Derp (Mar 8, 2018)

Correll said:


> I was responding to Franco's claim that our workers are poorly trained due to republicans.



Republicans refuse any job training programs because Republicans are regressives who want to drag our economy backwards, not forwards.  Coal is dead and isn't coming back; the future lies in renewables (particularly wind and solar).  We are ceding market share to foreign companies specifically because Conservative regressive policy dictates it.  

We lost the solar cell market to Germany; we lost the solar panel market to China.  We will lose the wind power/turbine market as well because while other governments spent money on R&D for new technologies going back 20 years, our investment in these markets is only recent to 2009, thanks to Obama.  So we're late to the party now because you all were so determined to have a 19th-century energy policy.

So thanks for nothing.




Correll said:


> He made that claim because he want's to blame American workers for our massive trade deficits.I blame Trade Policy, ours and our trade "partners", not our workers.



The trade deficit isn't the problem; the problem is that you've collected so much capital and wealth among the very top with the expectation it will trickle down.  Guess what?  It doesn't.


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## Correll (Mar 8, 2018)

The Derp said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Politicians craft Trade policy. Putting this on Americans consumers is a dodge.
> ...





THe goal is not lower prices but jobs.


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## The Derp (Mar 8, 2018)

Correll said:


> THe goal is not lower prices but jobs.



They don't create jobs either _*for the exact same reason*_.


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## Correll (Mar 8, 2018)

The Derp said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > I was responding to Franco's claim that our workers are poorly trained due to republicans.
> ...




Coal is currently the source of 40% of world electricity production.


To say that Coal is dead is A. wrong, and B. stupid.


So wrong and stupid that it robs everything else you say of any credibility.






> We lost the solar cell market to Germany; we lost the solar panel market to China.  We will lose the wind power/turbine market as well because while other governments spent money on R&D for new technologies going back 20 years, our investment in these markets is only recent to 2009, thanks to Obama.  So we're late to the party now because you all were so determined to have a 19th-century energy policy.
> 
> So thanks for nothing.




Growth of photovoltaics - Wikipedia



"The United States, inventor of modern solar PV, was the leader of installed capacity for many years. Based on preceding work by Swedish and German engineers, the American engineer Russell Ohl at Bell Labs patented the first modern solar cell in 1946.[44][45] It was also there at Bell Labs where the first practical c-silicon cell was developed in 1954.[46][47]Hoffman Electronics, the leading manufacturer of silicon solar cells in the 1950s and 1960s, improved on the cell's efficiency, produced solar radios, and equipped Vanguard I, the first solar powered satellite launched into orbit in 1958....


...In 1977 US-President Jimmy Carter installed solar hot water panels on the White House promoting solar energy[48]and the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, originally named _Solar Energy Research Institute_ was established at Golden, Colorado. In the 1980s and early 1990s, most photovoltaic modules were used in stand-alone power systems or powered consumer products such as watches, calculators and toys, but from around 1995, industry efforts have focused increasingly on developing grid-connected rooftop PV systems and power stations. By 1996, solar PV capacity in the US amounted to 77 megawatts–more than any other country in the world at the time. Then, Japan moved ahead."


1982 Reagan in office.

1996 Bill Clinton in office.

So, your crazy anti-republican rant, and giving Obama the credit for the US solar industry, is just plain wrong.








Correll said:


> He made that claim because he want's to blame American workers for our massive trade deficits.I blame Trade Policy, ours and our trade "partners", not our workers.



The trade deficit isn't the problem; the problem is that you've collected so much capital and wealth among the very top with the expectation it will trickle down.  Guess what?  It doesn't.[/QUOTE]




Trade policy that leads to wage growth for the working class and middle class is my goal. 


The Cheap labor and outsourcing that generates wealth for the one percent while stagnating wages for the working class and middle class, is the problem that I want to see fixed.



The other side of this debate is the one that wants to continue what you are complaining about.


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## basquebromance (Mar 8, 2018)

"Looking forward to 3:30 P.M. meeting today at the White House. We have to protect & build our Steel and Aluminum Industries while at the same time showing great flexibility and cooperation toward those that are real friends  and treat us fairly on both trade and the military.

The U.S. is acting swiftly on Intellectual Property theft. We cannot allow this to happen as it has for many years!

China has been asked to develop a plan for the year of a One Billion Dollar reduction in their massive Trade Deficit with the United States. Our relationship with China has been a very good one, and we look forward to seeing what ideas they come back with. We must act soon!" - President Trump


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## Correll (Mar 8, 2018)

The Derp said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > THe goal is not lower prices but jobs.
> ...





Really? Did Japan become a first world nation by importing a lot of shit? What about South Korea? 


Is the Chinese massive growth fueled by high imports? 


Mmmm?


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## Correll (Mar 8, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> "Looking forward to 3:30 P.M. meeting today at the White House. We have to protect & build our Steel and Aluminum Industries while at the same time showing great flexibility and cooperation toward those that are real friends  and treat us fairly on both trade and the military.
> 
> The U.S. is acting swiftly on Intellectual Property theft. We cannot allow this to happen as it has for many years!
> 
> China has been asked to develop a plan for the year of a One Billion Dollar reduction in their massive Trade Deficit with the United States. Our relationship with China has been a very good one, and we look forward to seeing what ideas they come back with. We must act soon!" - President Trump




One billion dollars? Out of 375 billion?



Not nearly enough.


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## Dragonlady (Mar 8, 2018)

And Trump blinks. Facing retaliation by Canada, with whom you have a trade surplus, not a deficit, Trump will not be slapping tariffs on Canada or Mexico.

Trump said the tariff would only come off if we signed a new NAFTA deal. Trudeau said “No fucking way. We’ll retaliate with tariffs on produce and wine”. And Trump backed down, faster than cockroach scurrying out of the light.

“The Great Negotiator”!  What a tool.


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## The Derp (Mar 8, 2018)

Correll said:


> Coal is currently the source of 40% of world electricity production.



And it's declining rapidly.  What was the share of coal of world electricity production 10 years ago?  It was much higher, wasn't it?  So I want to know why you think you can get away with removing context in an argument that relies entirely on context?  What is the share of coal in the US domestic market now vs. 10 years ago?

Coal isn't coming back.  It's dying.




Correll said:


> 1982 Reagan in office.
> 1996 Bill Clinton in office.
> So, your crazy anti-republican rant, and giving Obama the credit for the US solar industry, is just plain wrong.



Sigh...who holds the patents on solar cells?  What country do they reside?  Not the US; Germany and China.  We don't hold the patents for solar cells, which are what makes solar panels work.  Those patents are held overseas; we cannot manufacture solar cells without paying an exorbitant license fee to the patent holders, who reside overseas.

How is it possible you know less than nothing about this topic?




Correll said:


> Trade policy that leads to wage growth for the working class and middle class is my goal.



I thought your goal was to increase the deficit and debt and collect more wealth in the hands of the few?  Because that's the end result of the policies you support.  A trade policy that leads to wage growth for the working and middle class was the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which you opposed and in doing so, ceded the market and influence to China, who will now form trade deals individually with the nations that the TPP included.  So you narrow-mindedly disadvantaged us in the global markets because of your stupid "America first" posturing and idiocy.




Correll said:


> he Cheap labor and outsourcing that generates wealth for the one percent while stagnating wages for the working class and middle class, is the problem that I want to see fixed.



It's not outsourcing or cheap labor that is killing jobs; it's automation and technology.  Jobs are being lost to robots, not third world workers.  Outsourcing isn't responsible for the recent loss of jobs; automation is.  So unless your policy is to discourage automation and innovation, then you don't have a jobs policy in mind.  All you have are reactionary policies that don't work.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]


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## Correll (Mar 8, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> And Trump blinks. Facing retaliation by Canada, with whom you have a trade surplus, not a deficit, Trump will not be slapping tariffs on Canada or Mexico.
> 
> Trump said the tariff would only come off if we signed a new NAFTA deal. Trudeau said “No fucking way. We’ll retaliate with tariffs on produce and wine”. And Trump backed down, faster than cockroach scurrying out of the light.
> 
> “The Great Negotiator”!  What a tool.





You know, Canada's well being is not served by having America become a Third World Shit hole, as we are well on the way too.


You've done quite well as neighbor to a successful First World America. 


You really think that any change in America would likely be a change for the good, from your perspective?


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## Indeependent (Mar 8, 2018)

The Derp said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Coal is currently the source of 40% of world electricity production.
> ...


[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
Bullshit.


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## The Derp (Mar 8, 2018)

Correll said:


> Really? Did Japan become a first world nation by importing a lot of shit? What about South Korea?Is the Chinese massive growth fueled by high imports?Mmmm?



They're not fueled by tariffs, that's for fucking sure.


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## Golfing Gator (Mar 8, 2018)

I heard on the radio this morning that there are 80 times more workers that rely on steel than those that make it. 

So, for every worker helped, 80 are potentially harmed 


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


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## RealDave (Mar 8, 2018)

Correll said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



1)  We should be guiding more High schoolers towards trades.  Where I live, companies have resorted to billboards begging for welders.  There is more to be done.  Not to say companies should quit whining & do most of their own training.  These same companies begging for skilled workers operate on a boom/bust philosophy - hire & layoff - repeat.

2 Some countries to help "save" their industries through various means.  As do we through tax breaks & tax cuts.  To pretend everyone is bad and we are good is naive.   We have anti-dumping laws that can be enforced in those situations instead of blabbing how everyone is going to get hit with these tariffs.

Trump is a fucking idiot,.  He knows shit about manufacturing.  He knows shit about foreign trade.

The only thing Trump knows is thast he & his daughter uses cheap labor to import their products and their labor for his US properties.  But hey MAGA right?   This is why I laugh at you people.


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## RealDave (Mar 8, 2018)

We import around 28% of our steel. the last couple of years

Is that so bad?

Seems to me US companies are using that 72% of US steel & surviving OK.  

Figure in the products that are no longer made in this country - some instances over 40 years.  Then go after dumpers.  So is it worth the trade wars?

Or is dumbass Trump keeping a stupid campaign promise that he made when he was even more naive than he is now.


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## The Derp (Mar 8, 2018)

RealDave said:


> 1)  We should be guiding more High schoolers towards trades.  Where I live, companies have resorted to billboards begging for welders.  There is more to be done.  Not to say companies should quit whining & do most of their own training.  These same companies begging for skilled workers operate on a boom/bust philosophy - hire & layoff - repeat.



What we need are _*health care*_ jobs and training; that's the industry that has grown the most this century.  With tens of millions of boomers entering retirement age, the demand for home health care services will only increase.  Health care jobs are the jobs of the future and that's what we should be training people to do.


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## Dragonlady (Mar 8, 2018)

Correll said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > And Trump blinks. Facing retaliation by Canada, with whom you have a trade surplus, not a deficit, Trump will not be slapping tariffs on Canada or Mexico.
> ...



Canada just signed a massive trade deal with the EU. We’re a party to the TPP, which will be signed on Thursday, and the Paris Climate Accord.

Our education system is ranked third in the world, and our corporate tax rate is 25%. Despite our weather, we’re consistently ranked as one of the best places in the world to live, and to do business. We have more personal freedom than Americans. Our government is investing in research and development as well as infrastructure.  Last but not least, we have the fastest growing middle class in the world.

The EU deal was signed right after Trump became President. So right now, you need us a whole lot more than we need you.

Like I said, don’t mistake our good manners and willingness to compromise with weakness or gullibility. Had Trudeau caved to Dumb Donald on tariffs or NAFTA, he would definitely be on one-term PM.


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## RealDave (Mar 8, 2018)

Which is better/worse?

1)  The US steel company making it own steel from US raw materials
2)  A US  steel company making its own steel using a sizeable portion of imported raw materials?
     (Some steel companies might import billets to roll into steel products)
3)  A foreign company builds a steel plant here in the US using US raw materials
4)  A US company that owns a mill in another country
5)  A foreign company owns a mill & imports it's raw materials


The answer might differ if you look at it from a jobs view than if you looked at it in terms of corporate profits or national security.

I once lost an order because the buyer wanted a guarantee that the product was manufactured in the US using US made raw materials.  We had one item that was sourced from pipe yards & did not always have traceability even though we knew with some certainty they were manufactured in the US.   The guy bought products made from Koppel Steel right here in PA.  Koppel is a Russian owned steel mill.  So yes there areAmerican jobs aty Koppel but profits go to Russia & some to Trump's buddy Vlad.

It is not always clear.

Trump wants foreign companies to build factories on the US.  This is his goal.  Are we going to be someone else's workforce & that's it?  Not my idea of American strength.


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## Correll (Mar 8, 2018)

The Derp said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Coal is currently the source of 40% of world electricity production.
> ...






A single post ago, you claimed it was already dead. NOw it's "dying". And didn't we have this exact conversation before?


40 per cent of world electricity production, "dying" could take generations. That's tens of thousands of high paying jobs that you might be will to just flush and damn the people that could have had those jobs, but I'm not.







Correll said:


> 1982 Reagan in office.
> 1996 Bill Clinton in office.
> So, your crazy anti-republican rant, and giving Obama the credit for the US solar industry, is just plain wrong.



Sigh...who holds the patents on solar cells?  What country do they reside?  Not the US; Germany and China.  We don't hold the patents for solar cells, which are what makes solar panels work.  Those patents are held overseas; we cannot manufacture solar cells without paying an exorbitant license fee to the patent holders, who reside overseas.

How is it possible you know less than nothing about this topic?[/QUOTE]


You made some claims. That you cut. I refuted them. Nothing in your new posts, challenges my refutations of your previous claims.

Link to support your claim that we can't compete with solar cell production because of patents held overseas.






Correll said:


> Trade policy that leads to wage growth for the working class and middle class is my goal.



I thought your goal was to increase the deficit and debt and collect more wealth in the hands of the few?  Because that's the end result of the policies you support.  A trade policy that leads to wage growth for the working and middle class was the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which you opposed and in doing so, ceded the market and influence to China, who will now form trade deals individually with the nations that the TPP included.  So you narrow-mindedly disadvantaged us in the global markets because of your stupid "America first" posturing and idiocy.[/QUOTE]



Free Traders, have been claiming that Free Trade deals will do that, since the 70s. 


The result has been the exact opposite.

And let's not forget that you are the fool or liar that a single post ago claimed that Coal was "Dead". Your statements have no credibility on their own.






Correll said:


> he Cheap labor and outsourcing that generates wealth for the one percent while stagnating wages for the working class and middle class, is the problem that I want to see fixed.



It's not outsourcing or cheap labor that is killing jobs; it's automation and technology.  Jobs are being lost to robots, not third world workers.  Outsourcing isn't responsible for the recent loss of jobs; automation is.  So unless your policy is to discourage automation and innovation, then you don't have a jobs policy in mind.  All you have are reactionary policies that don't work.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE][/QUOTE]


It is absurd to claim that outsourcing manufacturing does not reduce jobs here.


Automation is a factor. ONe of several. Focusing on that ONE factor while ignoring others is the height of folly.


You are the one defending the status quo. That is the set of policies that we can see has not worked.


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## Correll (Mar 8, 2018)

The Derp said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Really? Did Japan become a first world nation by importing a lot of shit? What about South Korea?Is the Chinese massive growth fueled by high imports?Mmmm?
> ...





You can't admit the truth about those nations's economic policies and the results of those policies because it smashes your lies.



Am I wrong? THen answer the fucking questions.



Did Japan become a first world nation by importing a lot of shit? What about South Korea?Is the Chinese massive growth fueled by high imports?Mmmm?


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## Vandalshandle (Mar 8, 2018)

Europe has already announced retaliatory tariffs of Harley-Davidson, and other American products. This will, of course, cost some of these people's jobs. Harley is already in a precarious financial position. i will miss them when Trump's policies put them out of business.


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## Correll (Mar 8, 2018)

RealDave said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...





1. Sure. Agreed, but...

We've been at that point in the debate for generations now. And nothing has been done to actually do anything. 

Hence my comment. People say "training" but the end result is bullshit. Thus, "Buzzwords".



2. THe results speak for themselves. We have been fucked now for generations. Why are we putting up with this shit?


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## Vandalshandle (Mar 8, 2018)

Correll said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



My Honda costs about the same as a Chevy Malabo. The problem that GM is facing is that the Chevy is a poorly built car. Hence, the demise of the American Auto industry. BTW, my Saturn was cheaper than anything put out in Japan, but was completely worn out and worthless at 40,000 miles. In short, we fucked ourselves.


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## Correll (Mar 8, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...





MOre freedom? REally?

Try calling this man, a man, and see how fast you get arrested for hate speech.










Don't get me wrong. I have no ill will towards Canada. I wish you well.



Just pointing out that if America goes down in flames, it will not be as great to be our neighbor.


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## Correll (Mar 8, 2018)

Vandalshandle said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...





The competition of Free Trade was supposed to fix that. It has not. 


NOw what?


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## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 8, 2018)

Correll said:


> CowboyTed said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


*"You're A-Peein' in Your Pants"*

Time to roll up our sleeves and flush the Eurine Union down the drain.


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## RealDave (Mar 8, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...


Are you accepting US refugees?


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## The Derp (Mar 8, 2018)

Correll said:


> A single post ago, you claimed it was already dead. NOw it's "dying". And didn't we have this exact conversation before? 40 per cent of world electricity production, "dying" could take generations. That's tens of thousands of high paying jobs that you might be will to just flush and damn the people that could have had those jobs, but I'm not.



Coal jobs are high-paying jobs?  According to whom?  Aren't coal miners in Appalachia among the poorest in the country?  In fact, in coal-mining Kentucky, most white workers are on some kind of welfare.  The county with the highest number of people on SNAP is in coal country.  And yes, you can say coal is dead if it is dying.  Which it is.  It's also not coming back.




Correll said:


> You made some claims. That you cut. I refuted them. Nothing in your new posts, challenges my refutations of your previous claims. Link to support your claim that we can't compete with solar cell production because of patents held overseas.



Sigh...

From Apple Insider:
_Growth in the U.S. solar installation industry has benefited by rapidly falling prices in solar panels from China. American solar manufacturers have fallen behind in technology and production capacity because the U.S. hasn't invested in domestic solar research, development and production--just as it hasn't invested in manufacturing or training specialized tool and die workers and other critical components of the manufacturing supply chain--in the way China enthusiastically has. *Much of the new research in solar technology has also been funded in Germany, which Wilkie said holds the majority of patents.*

As a result, American firms can't compete in building inferior solar panels domestically, and can't even import foreign components to assemble panels in the U.S. due to the Drumpf tariffs covering anything related to solar._​



Correll said:


> Free Traders, have been claiming that Free Trade deals will do that, since the 70s.
> The result has been the exact opposite.
> And let's not forget that you are the fool or liar that a single post ago claimed that Coal was "Dead". Your statements have no credibility on their own..



Without trade deals, there are no intellectual property protections or enforcement.  So what happens is places like China pirate that stuff and end up producing their own knock-off goods that they then flood the market.  That's why pulling out of TPP was the stupidest idea in the world; you've ceded intellectual property to China's pirates.




Correll said:


> It is absurd to claim that outsourcing manufacturing does not reduce jobs here.



Not what I said!  You're doing that shitty Conservative thing again where you deliberately misstate and mis-understand what I said in order to make a bullshit argument.  Jobs aren't being lost to outsourcing, they're being lost to robots.  That's the reality of today.  Whether or not you want to believe it doesn't matter because it's happening regardless of your feelings.  So unless you have a plan for automation, any jobs policy you think you have is just reactionary bullshit and not a long-term strategy.




Correll said:


> Automation is a factor. ONe of several. Focusing on that ONE factor while ignoring others is the height of folly.



Automation is _*the*_ factor here.  It's not one on the same level as the others; it is the predominant one and the one that is causing the most downsizing.  To pretend that a Chinese worker is taking an American's job is to believe in nationalistic nonsense.  China isn't taking our jobs; robots are.  That's a fact of life for most manufacturing workers here in the US.  Automation has killed more jobs than outsourcing ever will or ever has.




Correll said:


> You are the one defending the status quo. That is the set of policies that we can see has not worked.



I'm not defending the status quo, so this is just another straw man on your part.  I'm being realistic; the _*reality*_ is that businesses aren't cutting American jobs due to outsourcing; they're cutting American jobs because of automation.  And you can see that in person if you go to any grocery store that has self-checkout.


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 8, 2018)

The Derp said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > A single post ago, you claimed it was already dead. NOw it's "dying". And didn't we have this exact conversation before? 40 per cent of world electricity production, "dying" could take generations. That's tens of thousands of high paying jobs that you might be will to just flush and damn the people that could have had those jobs, but I'm not.
> ...


Bullshit...
Open borders
Off-Shoring
Business Visas


----------



## The Derp (Mar 8, 2018)

Correll said:


> You can't admit the truth about those nations's economic policies and the results of those policies because it smashes your lies.



Isn't Japan the country that you Conservative morons hold up as an example of government socialism failing because of the debt load it incurred during the 90's?

What economic policies are you even talking about?  None.





Correll said:


> Did Japan become a first world nation by importing a lot of shit? What about South Korea?Is the Chinese massive growth fueled by high imports?Mmmm?



Japan became a first world nation by _*government investing in its domestic industries.
*_
Like I said before; you know less than nothing about this subject.


----------



## The Derp (Mar 8, 2018)

Correll said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



You call yourself a human being when you're clearly not.  So what do you care how someone else self-identifies?


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 8, 2018)

The Derp said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > You can't admit the truth about those nations's economic policies and the results of those policies because it smashes your lies.
> ...


Japan protects it’s workforce and exports quality products.


----------



## The Derp (Mar 8, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Bullshit...
> Open borders
> Off-Shoring
> Business Visas



1.  Open borders?  Huh?  We don't have open borders.  In fact, Trump imports workers to work at his domestic resorts, then is not held accountable for when those workers overstay their visas.

2.  Off-shoring is a thing of the past; automation is what is costing manufacturing jobs.  No amount of protectionism is going to stop increased automation.

3.  Visas like those Trump uses to import foreigners to work at his Florida resort.  Why doesn't he hire Americans?  Oh right, becuase then he'd have to pay them a decent wage and provide benefits.  So great, so you've established that capitalism is a system that is fundamentally unable to provide an adequate standard of living to the working class.


----------



## The Derp (Mar 8, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Japan protects it’s workforce and exports quality products.



Yes, Japan has a strong social safety net.  We don't have a comprable safety net.  Also, Japan's government heavily invests in Japanese companies.


----------



## Thinker101 (Mar 8, 2018)

The Derp said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Japan protects it’s workforce and exports quality products.
> ...



Japan invests in Japanese companies....sure they purchase them. 
*The Japanese government owns a massive amount of Japanese companies* 
You may want to read your own links...dumbass.


----------



## The Derp (Mar 8, 2018)

Thinker101 said:


> Japan invests in Japanese companies....sure they purchase them.
> *The Japanese government owns a massive amount of Japanese companies*
> You may want to read your own links...dumbass.



Hey stupid, how is what you said any different from what I said?

You Conservatives do that a lot; you try to capture something someone else said and represent it as you saying it.  That's because you're garbage people.


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 8, 2018)

The Derp said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Bullshit...
> ...


We don’t have Open Borders?
My co-worker’s cousin is a border guard...we have open borders as there is zip man power in comparison to area.

No off-shoring?
You’re right...the US has alreay off-shored the shit out of itself.

No Visas?
You’re f*ing high.

Trump hired 300 visas for 3 months.

Please don’t tell me you suck the cocks of the tech giants.
There are currently 3,000,000 BVs in the US and corporate America is demanding at least 500,000 more per year
Save your bullshit for someone who doesn’t know what’s going on.


----------



## The Derp (Mar 8, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> My co-worker’s cousin is a border guard...we have open borders as there is zip man power in comparison to area.



*I don't accept third-hand anecdotal accounts as evidence*, *and no one does*.  So instead of making shit up to justify your fucking stupid argument, how about providing some actual proof, or just shutting the fuck up?




Indeependent said:


> You’re right...the US has alreay off-shored the shit out of itself.



It never really did that anyway.  Secondly, it doesn't matter because automation is what is killing jobs.  So what are you going to do about that?  Stop innovation?




Indeependent said:


> No Visas?
> You’re f*ing high.



I never said no visas, so this is you doing that Conservative thing where you mangle and distort what someone else said because you lack the confidence to make an argument not against a straw man.




Indeependent said:


> Trump hired 300 visas for 3 months.



1.  Why didn't he hire Americans?
2.  What does it matter how many he sought and for how long he sought them?
3.  How is this a defense of your argument?




Indeependent said:


> Please don’t tell me you suck the cocks of the tech giants.
> There are currently 3,000,000 BVs in the US and corporate America is demanding at least 500,000 more per year
> Save your bullshit for someone who doesn’t know what’s going on.



Where did I ever say I supported visas?  Where?  Nowhere.  So you're doing that shitty Conservative thing of creating straw men and then arguing against those.


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 8, 2018)

The Derp said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > My co-worker’s cousin is a border guard...we have open borders as there is zip man power in comparison to area.
> ...


You hate Trump so you make up shit.

I live in Nassau County and we are flooded with the illegals you say aren’t coming across the border.
Yes we have open borders and I don’t give a shit about your Trump bashing tirades.

Trump?
Some wealthy areas with spoiled brat ultra wealthy kids have trouble getting summer help.


----------



## The Derp (Mar 8, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> You hate Trump so you make up shit.



I didn't make up a co-worker, and then make up a cousin of that co-worker to argue some nonsense about open borders.  You did that.  Own it.




Indeependent said:


> I live in Nassau County and we are flooded with the illegals you say aren’t coming across the border.Yes we have open borders and I don’t give a shit about your Trump bashing tirades.



Nassau county is in NY, not on the border.  And are you sure they're illegals?  Not everyone who speaks Spanish is an illegal immigrant, you racist asshole.





Indeependent said:


> Trump?Some wealthy areas with spoiled brat ultra wealthy kids have trouble getting summer help.



Maybe try offering higher wages, that way you don't have to import foreigners to take jobs.


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 8, 2018)

The Derp said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > You hate Trump so you make up shit.
> ...


They are illegals.
They are squatters.
They eventually get evicted.

Higher wages?
For someone who seems smart you’re pretty stupid.
Corporate America *wants* cheap Indian H1-Bs.
Software development is a *Business Expense*.
IT has no associations to fight for them, so the industry has been gutted out of non-Indian BVs.
Now you’re going to tell me that the only nation on earth that produces code monkeys is India.


----------



## The Derp (Mar 8, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> They are illegals.
> They are squatters.
> They eventually get evicted.



You're a poseur.
You're a posturer.
You will eventually have to own up to being a bullshitter.

You *literally* make up people to lend your argument credibility it doesn't otherwise have.  That's deranged.




Indeependent said:


> Higher wages?.



Yes, higher wages is how you attract labor.  So here you're arguing that foreigners should take jobs for Americans because the business owner doesn't want to pay a wage high enough to attract workers.  So how is your argument not one giant circle jerk?  You lament foreigners coming in on visas, yet oppose raising wages which would discourage work visas.  It's a circle jerk of an argument.  And you're voluntarily eating the cracker.




Indeependent said:


> For someone who seems smart you’re pretty stupid.
> Corporate America *wants* cheap Indian H1-Bs.
> Software development is a *Business Expense*.
> IT has no associations to fight for them, so the industry has been gutted out of non-Indian BVs.
> Now you’re going to tell me that the only nation on earth that produces code monkeys is India.



Look, the solution is really simple; if you want fewer foreign workers, you have to offer higher wages and better benefits.  But you don't want to do that; so you're stuck in a masturbatory argument.


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 8, 2018)

The Derp said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > They are illegals.
> ...


Then why is corporate America pushing for BVs for well paid Attorneys, Accountants, Electrical and Mechanical Engineer and MDs?

If anything, NO business wants to pay a penny more than necessary.

The fact is that you hate Trump so you make up bullshit.


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 8, 2018)

The Derp said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > They are illegals.
> ...


For your enlightenment...
HR633
S744
Both packed into the Dream Act.
Replace 10 currently well paid professions with, per *annum*, 160,000 BVs in *each* profession.

And you think Corporate America has any desire to raise wages for unprotected professions.

You’re a clown.


----------



## The Derp (Mar 8, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Then why is corporate America pushing for BVs for well paid Attorneys, Accountants, Electrical and Mechanical Engineer and MDs?



They're not well paid compared to their American counterparts.  The entire purpose of work visas is to import cheaper labor.  That's why they do it.  So while attorneys and the like are well paid, _*attorneys on visas are paid less than American attorneys*_.  




Indeependent said:


> If anything, NO business wants to pay a penny more than necessary.



Right, so you can't claim the people running the business are patriotic Americans.




Indeependent said:


> The fact is that you hate Trump so you make up bullshit.



I do hate Trump, but I don't need to make shit up about him to justify my distaste.


----------



## The Derp (Mar 8, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> And you think Corporate America has any desire to raise wages for unprotected professions.



When did I ever say that?  Never.  So this is you creating a straw man.  I am not a friend or ally of corporate America and I know that they will do everything they can to squeeze worker wages.


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 8, 2018)

The Derp said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > And you think Corporate America has any desire to raise wages for unprotected professions.
> ...


The bottom line is that Trump is looking out for Americans, but the fact that he decided to put an R next to his name drives you nuts.


----------



## The Derp (Mar 8, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> The bottom line is that Trump is looking out for Americans



No he's not!

He doesn't look out for Americans when he hires foreigners to work at his resorts.

He doesn't look out for Americans when he increases the cost of steel and aluminum thanks to dumb tariffs.

When are you going to get it through your head that he doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself?


----------



## boedicca (Mar 8, 2018)

Personally, I find a President who pays willing participants for sex to be a vast improvement over a Rapist In Chief.

Just sayin'.


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 8, 2018)

The Derp said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > The bottom line is that Trump is looking out for Americans
> ...


He has already made it much more onerous to bring H1-Bs here to replace Americans.
I see you keep up with the news.


----------



## TheOldSchool (Mar 8, 2018)

boedicca said:


> Personally, I find a President who pays willing participants for sex to be a vast improvement over a Rapist In Chief.
> 
> Just sayin'.


Trump is both.  Congratulations.


----------



## boedicca (Mar 8, 2018)

TheOldSchool said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Personally, I find a President who pays willing participants for sex to be a vast improvement over a Rapist In Chief.
> ...




No, I don't believe.  Trump sees himself as a seducer, not a predator.


----------



## TheOldSchool (Mar 8, 2018)

boedicca said:


> TheOldSchool said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...


Weird because his own words indicate otherwise.

Besides, who’s that fat slob ever going to seduce without just offering them access to his money?


----------



## boedicca (Mar 8, 2018)

TheOldSchool said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > TheOldSchool said:
> ...



There have always been women willing to give sex to men with money and power regardless of how ugly or fat the men may be.   The women wouldn't do it if they weren't seeking some benefit for themselves.


----------



## TheOldSchool (Mar 8, 2018)

boedicca said:


> TheOldSchool said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...


Yeah like with Trump and Harvey Weinstein


----------



## boedicca (Mar 8, 2018)

TheOldSchool said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > TheOldSchool said:
> ...



Trump is not analogous to Weinstein, unless you have any credible evidence that he jerked off into house plants in front of horrified subordinates, or drugged and raped aspiring Apprentices.


----------



## TheOldSchool (Mar 8, 2018)

boedicca said:


> TheOldSchool said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...


He is accused of such.  And then there’s the golden showers in the increasingly accurate dossier.  Trump is a pervert who’s never had to suffer consequences thanks to daddy’s money.


----------



## basquebromance (Mar 8, 2018)

After tariff signing, Speaker Ryan voices his objections again: "I disagree with this action and fear its unintended consequences."


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 8, 2018)

Synthaholic said:


> This tariff ain’t going to happen. Trump is a weakling, and weaklings always back down.
> 
> Mark my words.


You mean like Obama's red line in Syria?


----------



## ABikerSailor (Mar 8, 2018)

TheOldSchool said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > TheOldSchool said:
> ...



Today on one of the news channels, they had the reporter who did the original Stormy Daniels interview back in 2011, and she said that the reason Ms. Daniels was sleeping with Trump was because she was hoping for either a spot on the Apprentice, or to be hooked up with his television connections.


----------



## justinacolmena (Mar 8, 2018)

william the wie said:


> Actually there is a much simpler way to straighten out the mess. We have many types of brain drain visas and residence permits. Trump should use them to the max to do just that.



I'm pretty sure Trump actually is doing just that.

Oh yes. Really. That's the problem. We Americans are just too stupid. We just need to give up our homes and jobs for these super-intelligent pure Aryan-race European foreigners.

In fact we did that in World War II, "brain-drained" Germany of all its nuclear experts, and deprived Germany of its nukes. Now we must cope not only with their "superior intellect" but with their national socialist racial purity politics as well, to this day.


----------



## Bush92 (Mar 8, 2018)

*GOD BLESS THIS DAY! Thank you Mr. President. Good to have someone in White House who stands up for American workers.*


----------



## Bush92 (Mar 8, 2018)

jillian said:


> bendog said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


We are knowledgeable. We know that when more Americans have good paying jobs the more taxes they pay...the better our school districts are and the better the education our children get. The better for the real estate business, car dealerships, and insurance business as well. Health care is robust as employees have insurance...Win, Win, ...unless your just an investor who has no blood, sweat, or tears in the game.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 8, 2018)

Correll said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...




Gee.  You left out the intervening 8 years, didn't you?  As I remember, it wasn't exactly an economic boom was it?  2 wars on the Credit card and an economy left in a complete shambles.  You must have just forgot about that.  Yeah, that must be it.  LOL  Friggin' dishonest Trump sheep.


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 8, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


GW destroyed the US and Obama did nothing.
Not it's Trump's turn to reverse GW.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 8, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...




You just go on believing that, if it makes you feel good.


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 8, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


It does.
I'm still waiting for you to post something that wasn't copied from a soap opera.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 8, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Sorry but all my children believe that Democrats are the guiding light we need to show us another world beyond what Trump has shown us because all our children are young and restless for change.


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 8, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


Your children are not well educated in the inner goings on of politics.
Most people aren't.
Now explain Trump in context of Clinton, GW, Obama.
I bet you can't because I bet, like most people, including many people I know, that you are ignorant of how political parties operate.
You should have listened to Bernie Sanders on the Thom Hartmann Radio Show for a few years.
Both parties are in on the deal.


----------



## Bush92 (Mar 8, 2018)

Donald J. Trump...today...became the greatest President of my lifetime.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/03/08/trump-imposing-tariffs-on-all-steel-aluminum-imports-exempts-mexico-and-canada-for-now.html


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 8, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



I don't work for you.  Do your own explaining.  I may be ignorant of how parties work (says you)  But at least I can recognize humor when I see it.  You need to relax and watch a soap opera.  They're unintentionally hilarious. Just like you.


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 8, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


Excuse me?
If you become any more weepee wailee with your posts I'll have to start wiping my monitor.
And now to annoy you...
*President Donald J. Trump*


----------



## Bush92 (Mar 8, 2018)

FDR on the Enemy: Fear Itself | American Experience | PBS
Trump “gets it.”


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 8, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



You're excused.


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 8, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


I understand you've been through some traumatic experiences so I *can* see you going for the Democratic Party.
Your children should aspire to be independent from both extremes.


----------



## Reasonable (Mar 8, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


We're still waiting for you to reclaim your manhood when you surrendered it to Trump.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 8, 2018)

boedicca said:


> TheOldSchool said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



So, is this the new measuring stick for presidential hopefuls?  They didn't jerk off into houseplants?  Hell, that would be about the only trait in the win column for Donnie.


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 8, 2018)

Reasonable said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


Huh?
You vote "D", I vote platform.
Basically, I vote for Sanders' Platform.


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 8, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > TheOldSchool said:
> ...


What does that have to do with bringing careers and jobs back to the US?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 8, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Hell, if that is the catalyst for being a Democrat, you righties are in for quite a shellacking in Nov because of the Trauma Trump will have piled up by then.  You still don't get it, do you?


----------



## Reasonable (Mar 8, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Reasonable said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


So you voted in the democratic primaries for Sanders? 
Ha! 
Are you bipolar?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 8, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Reasonable said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Which one?  Sarah?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 8, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



I think you mean to reverse Obama.  So far he's following the W plan.  We got the big tax cuts and now we need a couple of wars.  I sincerely hope he doesn't achieve that goal.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 8, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



All My Children?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 8, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Reasonable said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



So did I.


----------



## basquebromance (Mar 8, 2018)

what do you hear from Paul Ryan & DC politicians? happy-talk rhetoric. it's like that old "prosperity is right around the corner mantra" President Hoover repeated when America was in the throes of the Great Depression. it's a lotta hot air. we've got millions of folks outta work. WE NEED ACTION!

every 8 years, the Chinese economy doubles its size. that's a tremendous achievement, and it's also why they clean our clocks year in year out on trade. no more, folks, no more! NO MORE!


----------



## francoHFW (Mar 8, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


Obama just gave us the best economy in the world within a year that's all doop


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 8, 2018)

Reasonable said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Reasonable said:
> ...


Are you retarded...I've only stated this a few dozen times, moron...
Sanders and Trump had the same platform.
Voting for Trump was the same as voting for Sanders.


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 8, 2018)

francoHFW said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


You mean there are other nations more in debt than the US?


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 8, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Reasonable said:
> ...


Than your hatred of Trump is based on the R; pure bullshit partisan hatred.


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 8, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


I hope your kids can see past the Parties.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 9, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...



How sad for your children.  When they learn the truth it will be like learning there is no Santa Claus.


----------



## kaz (Mar 9, 2018)

TheOldSchool said:


> Massive tariffs and subsidies!  The GOP’s new theory for capitalism’s success!



LOL, it's hilarious how you people flip your position on every issue based on the party in power.  You think it's Democrats who support free trade?  Are you hallucinating?


----------



## kaz (Mar 9, 2018)

Correll said:


> debbiedowner said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Flagrant confirmation bias.  This is also a single cause fallacy.

A twofer, nice!


----------



## kaz (Mar 9, 2018)

Brain357 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



I agree, but all my life you didn't.  It's Democrats who overwhelmingly oppose trade deals.  It's incredible how you just flip sides based on party


----------



## kaz (Mar 9, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


> Should we allow other countries like communist China to dump steel in the U.S. killing jobs for American workers? That's what liberals in this thread are saying. If China dumping steel into the U.S. was hurting illegals the liberals would be in an uproar.



Do you know what "dumping" means?  It has an actual economic meaning.  It doesn't mean cheaper than US companies can produce steel


----------



## Correll (Mar 9, 2018)

The Derp said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > A single post ago, you claimed it was already dead. NOw it's "dying". And didn't we have this exact conversation before? 40 per cent of world electricity production, "dying" could take generations. That's tens of thousands of high paying jobs that you might be will to just flush and damn the people that could have had those jobs, but I'm not.
> ...




1. The median US household income is 56 k a year, the average STARTING salary for a coal miner is 60k a year. By any objective measurement, a single income that starts at above average household income, is a good job.

2. No. Appalachia is poor, which makes the purchasing power and relative value of the coal miner job all the higher.

3. Dead and Dying are two different words for a reason. THey mean different things. 40 per cent of the world's electricity production is not dying either. It might be declining, but as I said, that could mean generations of tens of thousands of good jobs. YOu might not care about those people, but I do.


4. And losing a hostile government, could be upswings that could last decades.






Correll said:


> You made some claims. That you cut. I refuted them. Nothing in your new posts, challenges my refutations of your previous claims. Link to support your claim that we can't compete with solar cell production because of patents held overseas.



Sigh...

From Apple Insider:
_Growth in the U.S. solar installation industry has benefited by rapidly falling prices in solar panels from China. American solar manufacturers have fallen behind in technology and production capacity because the U.S. hasn't invested in domestic solar research, development and production--just as it hasn't invested in manufacturing or training specialized tool and die workers and other critical components of the manufacturing supply chain--in the way China enthusiastically has. *Much of the new research in solar technology has also been funded in Germany, which Wilkie said holds the majority of patents.*

As a result, American firms can't compete in building inferior solar panels domestically, and can't even import foreign components to assemble panels in the U.S. due to the Drumpf tariffs covering anything related to solar.[/QUOTE]
_
​So, China doesn't hold the patents and they are winning market share. Interesting.

AND, I note that this is not really supporting data. Something like a graph showing a drop in investments in R&D, or a drop in the numbers of patents being filed. 

This is more just opinion and hearsay.






Correll said:


> Free Traders, have been claiming that Free Trade deals will do that, since the 70s.
> The result has been the exact opposite.
> And let's not forget that you are the fool or liar that a single post ago claimed that Coal was "Dead". Your statements have no credibility on their own..



Without trade deals, there are no intellectual property protections or enforcement.  So what happens is places like China pirate that stuff and end up producing their own knock-off goods that they then flood the market.  That's why pulling out of TPP was the stupidest idea in the world; you've ceded intellectual property to China's pirates.[/QUOTE]



We have had trade deals with intellectual property protections. THey are just  not enforced. This one would have been no different.






Correll said:


> It is absurd to claim that outsourcing manufacturing does not reduce jobs here.



Not what I said!  You're doing that shitty Conservative thing again where you deliberately misstate and mis-understand what I said in order to make a bullshit argument.  Jobs aren't being lost to outsourcing, they're being lost to robots.  That's the reality of today.  Whether or not you want to believe it doesn't matter because it's happening regardless of your feelings.  So unless you have a plan for automation, any jobs policy you think you have is just reactionary bullshit and not a long-term strategy.[/QUOTE]


Automation is one factor among many. It is not an excuse to ignore the other factors. 

Outsourcing and trade deficits are causes of job losses that we can reverse. 


Saying "reactionary" is not an argument.





Correll said:


> Automation is a factor. ONe of several. Focusing on that ONE factor while ignoring others is the height of folly.



Automation is _*the*_ factor here.  It's not one on the same level as the others; it is the predominant one and the one that is causing the most downsizing.  To pretend that a Chinese worker is taking an American's job is to believe in nationalistic nonsense.  China isn't taking our jobs; robots are.  That's a fact of life for most manufacturing workers here in the US.  Automation has killed more jobs than outsourcing ever will or ever has.[/QUOTE]


You state that very strongly. You do nothing to support it.

Nations are real. Japan, South Korea, and now China have grown into First World nations while our industrial heartland has been ravaged.


That is not "nationalistic nonsense" but the plain Truth. 






Correll said:


> You are the one defending the status quo. That is the set of policies that we can see has not worked.



I'm not defending the status quo, so this is just another straw man on your part.  I'm being realistic; the _*reality*_ is that businesses aren't cutting American jobs due to outsourcing; they're cutting American jobs because of automation.  And you can see that in person if you go to any grocery store that has self-checkout.[/QUOTE]


You are defending the status quo. We are losing jobs both due to outsourcing, trade deficits, and automation.


Using the automation factor to ignore the others is very harmful to America and Americans.


----------



## boedicca (Mar 9, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > TheOldSchool said:
> ...




I'll admit it's a very low standard, but we can thank the Progs for destroying our traditional cultural norms.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 9, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> After tariff signing, Speaker Ryan voices his objections again: "I disagree with this action and fear its unintended consequences."


*Cheesehead Eating His Curds and Whey*

Eddie Munster, the Wisconsin whiskbroom


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 9, 2018)

boedicca said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



"I know you are but what am I?"  Herman.


----------



## The Derp (Mar 9, 2018)

Correll said:


> 1. The median US household income is 56 k a year, the average STARTING salary for a coal miner is 60k a year. By any objective measurement, a single income that starts at above average household income, is a good job.



Starting at $60K?  No, no, no, no, no.  The *ceiling* is $60K a year according to Payscale.com.  The median income for coal miners is just $44K a year.  That's below both the mean and median national income, and barely qualifies for Obamacare subsidies.  You don't know what the fuck you're talking about, as usual.


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## The Derp (Mar 9, 2018)

Correll said:


> 2. No. Appalachia is poor, which makes the purchasing power and relative value of the coal miner job all the higher.



The job you thought started at $60K, when $60K is actually the *ceiling* for coal worker income.  But whatever, we know Appalachia is poor because it's the highest concentration of SNAP recipients in the country.  In fact, the highest rate of SNAP recipients is in good old Owsley, KY which is 98% white and which 92% of residents are on SNAP.




Correll said:


> 3. Dead and Dying are two different words for a reason. THey mean different things. 40 per cent of the world's electricity production is not dying either. It might be declining, but as I said, that could mean generations of tens of thousands of good jobs. YOu might not care about those people, but I do.



It's dead, it's dying, it's irrelevant and it's not the future.




Correll said:


> 4. And losing a hostile government, could be upswings that could last decades.



Coal isn't coming back.


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## Wickerthing (Mar 9, 2018)

The Derp said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > 2. No. Appalachia is poor, which makes the purchasing power and relative value of the coal miner job all the higher.
> ...



Damn!  But it worked so well as a talking point.  Made working people think Trump actually cared about them.  Big mistake.  He cares for just one and his name is Donald. Oh, and dollar Bill


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## Wickerthing (Mar 9, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Reasonable said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



That may be but Sanders actually meant what he said.  And he didn't have a blackmailer like Putin to make him change a plank in that platform and scare him away from doing the right thing on sanctions.


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## ABikerSailor (Mar 9, 2018)

You know what I find really funny?  All these Trump supporters are singing his praises for signing an EO that raises tariffs on foreign steel and aluminum.

The policy has only been signed for 2 days, and yet they are saying how great it is going to be for this country, even in spite of the threats of other countries saying that this could spark a trade war.  How about we wait and see what this new policy brings before saying how great it is for this country?  There are many people who are saying that it will actually cost jobs for this country. 

It's almost as stupid as them saying that Trump has denuclearized N. Korea, when in fact, the only thing that has been proposes is talks that are scheduled for sometime between now and May.  The talks haven't even happened yet.  What if N. Korea tells Trump to go screw himself?  What if they don't happen at all?  Are you still going to say that Trump denuclearized N. Korea then?

You guys have to calm down on what Trump says he's going to do and wait and see what he actually does and what happens as a result.   

Trump supporters make me think of members of a cult.  Their leader can do no wrong.


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## ABikerSailor (Mar 9, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Reasonable said:
> ...



Don't forget that Sanders is actually a statesman and wouldn't make the US the current joke that Trump has.


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## Wickerthing (Mar 9, 2018)

ABikerSailor said:


> You know what I find really funny?  All these Trump supporters are singing his praises for signing an EO that raises tariffs on foreign steel and aluminum.
> 
> The policy has only been signed for 2 days, and yet they are saying how great it is going to be for this country, even in spite of the threats of other countries saying that this could spark a trade war.  How about we wait and see what this new policy brings before saying how great it is for this country?  There are many people who are saying that it will actually cost jobs for this country.
> 
> ...



Yeah, and that is not hyperbole either.  It really is a massive brainwashing of a section of America.  BTW he's already back peddled on those tariffs after the actual smart people around him read him the riot act.  Those smart people are a shrinking group.  He now wants to dump Kelly and McMaster.  I haven't seen such a turnover since breakfast.  And once he's cleaned the closet and the Cabinet out of folks with reasoning skills, we'll be left with mindless, blundering, bluster.  And he's gonna sit down with Un?  We'll be lucky if we are still alive the next day.


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## Correll (Mar 9, 2018)

The Derp said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > You can't admit the truth about those nations's economic policies and the results of those policies because it smashes your lies.
> ...




1. Discussing the policies that grew their economy to First World status is valid, even if they had problems in the 90s 

2. I'm discussing their predatory trade policy. Obviously.






Correll said:


> Did Japan become a first world nation by importing a lot of shit? What about South Korea?Is the Chinese massive growth fueled by high imports?Mmmm?



Japan became a first world nation by _*government investing in its domestic industries.
*_
Like I said before; you know less than nothing about this subject.[/QUOTE]


1. Your cowardly dodging of the question is noted and laughed at.

2. Your implicit admission that Japan and South Korean became first world nation though massive trade SURPLUSES, is accepted. Why do you want trade policies for the US that you know are bad for the nation and it's citizens?

3. Wow. Investing. Nice buzz word.


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## Correll (Mar 9, 2018)

The Derp said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...




My post was about the lack of freedom in Canada. Obviously.  Try to be less of a stupid ass.


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## Correll (Mar 9, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...




I'm not trying to deny the role of the GOP in our current shitty Status Que.

Hence my words, stating that "both republicans and democrats" were responsible.


You are the one trying to put in all on the other side, hence my point about Clinton and Obama.


Which stands as you did not address it.


Also, my question about your position on the consumer issue, you avoided it.


Explain to me why a higher rate of consuming has to mean consuming IMPORTS, and not domestically produced crap.


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## Correll (Mar 9, 2018)

Reasonable said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...




That was fucking stupid.


----------



## Correll (Mar 9, 2018)

kaz said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > debbiedowner said:
> ...




The stagnation of Middle Class and Working poor wages is no confirmation bias.

The Free Traders made promises. They did not occur. There was a lot of time for that happen.


The policy has failed. Time for a new policy.


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## SmokeALib (Mar 9, 2018)

ABikerSailor said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


Sanders is a statesman? Obvious sarcasm. BTW, consider getting off your couch and look out your window. This economy is BOOMING.


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## BlackSand (Mar 9, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


> Should we allow other countries like communist China to dump steel in the U.S. killing jobs for American workers? That's what liberals in this thread are saying. If China dumping steel into the U.S. was hurting illegals the liberals would be in an uproar.



Canada is dumping a shitload of government subsidized softwood and engineered softwood products on our markets.
There are far more workers in the engineered wood manufacturing business than steel and aluminum.

Screw the housing and construction costs ... Protect American jobs by making it more expensive to build a house.
Let's screw ourselves and fuck with Canada too.

.


----------



## Correll (Mar 9, 2018)

The Derp said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > 1. The median US household income is 56 k a year, the average STARTING salary for a coal miner is 60k a year. By any objective measurement, a single income that starts at above average household income, is a good job.
> ...





Fuck you.

"
Coal Dust 'Like Nicotine': Why Miners Love the Work


Nine out of 10 Appalachian men do not receive college degrees; some don't even finish high school. The average starting salary for a coal mine worker is $60,000.


"You can come right out of high school and make $70,000 a year," said Missy Perdue, 22, a stay-at-home mother whose husband, Jeff Perdue, Jr., 22, is a miner.
April Athey, 28, also says she appreciates her husband's salary, despite the risks of mining, so that she can stay at home and raise the couple's four kids, including one-year-old twins.
"


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## Wickerthing (Mar 9, 2018)

Correll said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



But, when you just pull policies out of your ass on the fly without even consulting people with strong backgrounds in econ that are charged with making recommendations, that's wrong.  Contrary to popular opinion of the 38% he's almost never the smartest guy in the room.


----------



## Correll (Mar 9, 2018)

The Derp said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > 2. No. Appalachia is poor, which makes the purchasing power and relative value of the coal miner job all the higher.
> ...





You are jumping all over the place. Your point was that COAL MINERS are poor. I pointed out that that was not true, that APPALACHIA was poor, which makes the coal mining salaries all the more attractive relatively speaking.








Correll said:


> 3. Dead and Dying are two different words for a reason. THey mean different things. 40 per cent of the world's electricity production is not dying either. It might be declining, but as I said, that could mean generations of tens of thousands of good jobs. YOu might not care about those people, but I do.



It's dead, it's dying, it's irrelevant and it's not the future.[/QUOTE]



40% of world electricity production is not dead nor dying. YOu are a fool and a liar.


Your hostility to the good hard working people of Appalachia is odd and reveals you to be a bad person. Not that there was any doubt of that.


Does it bother you to know that you are a bad person?





Correll said:


> 4. And losing a hostile government, could be upswings that could last decades.



Coal isn't coming back.[/QUOTE]


It never left. My point stands. With the removal of active hostility from the national government. there could easily be upswings in production and employment that could last decades.


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## SmokeALib (Mar 9, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > kaz said:
> ...


Elections have consequences.


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## Correll (Mar 9, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> The Derp said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...




Coal is 40 per cent of the world's electricity production. 


Only a fool or a liar would claim that it was dead or dying. 


That is a lot of working people, that you liberals are obviously HOSTILE towards.


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## Correll (Mar 9, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > kaz said:
> ...





So, you don't deny that the Promises the Free Traders made did not come to pass.


YOu don't deny that the Free Trade policy has failed.


The smart people with those strong backgrounds in econ, have had generations to address the problem. Most of them seem to be spending their time and credibility denying that there is a problem "deficits don't matter" which no one is falling for.


(Sure a lot of people pretend to believe it, but they are mostly lying)


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## Dragonlady (Mar 9, 2018)

Correll said:


> The Derp said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



You’re the stupid ass. 

Our laws require that you treat people you disagree with in a respectful, and not encourage others to hate them by publishing lies and promoting hate. 

It’s it really that important for you to say things like “All [hated race, creed, religion], are destroying our country and should be killed”. 

There’s a lot of this going on in the US. It’s mostly based on lies and hate speech. Is it improving your public discourse?

I live in a country where people are working together. We’re all in this together, and while we disagree, we don’t think the other side is evil. We don’t tear down what we’ve invested in, and we don’t seek to divide. 

Right wingers don’t trust the left, don’t trust government, don’t trust anybody who doesn’t look like them, and then claim the other side is all tied up in identity politics. 

You’re like a bunch of people in a rowboat all rowing in different directions, and nobody listening to one other. 

You used to be better than this.


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## Correll (Mar 9, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > The Derp said:
> ...





Nice spin. 

How many people have been arrested for saying stuff you don't agree with so far, in your country?


I hear they are doing the same thing in the UK.


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## Dragonlady (Mar 9, 2018)

Correll said:


> The Derp said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...





40% of world electricity production is not dead nor dying. YOu are a fool and a liar.


Your hostility to the good hard working people of Appalachia is odd and reveals you to be a bad person. Not that there was any doubt of that.


Does it bother you to know that you are a bad person?





Correll said:


> 4. And losing a hostile government, could be upswings that could last decades.



Coal isn't coming back.[/QUOTE]


It never left. My point stands. With the removal of active hostility from the national government. there could easily be upswings in production and employment that could last decades.[/QUOTE]

It’s going, going, gone. Gas is cheaper because of fracking, more plentiful, and less polluting than coal. Coal fired electrical plants in the US continue to close. 

Even with Trump’s easing of pollution regulations for coal mining, resulted in fewer than 800 jobs being created in the industry. 

Exclusive: Trump's coal job push stumbles in most states - data


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## Correll (Mar 9, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > The Derp said:
> ...




It never left. My point stands. With the removal of active hostility from the national government. there could easily be upswings in production and employment that could last decades.[/QUOTE]

It’s going, going, gone. Gas is cheaper because of fracking, more plentiful, and less polluting than coal. Coal fired electrical plants in the US continue to close.

Even with Trump’s easing of pollution regulations for coal mining, resulted in fewer than 800 jobs being created in the industry.

Exclusive: Trump's coal job push stumbles in most states - data[/QUOTE]




1. 40% of world electricity production is not "gone".  Want to guess how much of the world's electricity is produced by wind?


2. You offer a small increase in jobs as  support for you claim of "dying" industry? You have a non-standard definition of "dying".


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## Dragonlady (Mar 9, 2018)

Correll said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



It’s going, going, gone. Gas is cheaper because of fracking, more plentiful, and less polluting than coal. Coal fired electrical plants in the US continue to close.

Even with Trump’s easing of pollution regulations for coal mining, resulted in fewer than 800 jobs being created in the industry.

Exclusive: Trump's coal job push stumbles in most states - data[/QUOTE]




1. 40% of world electricity production is not "gone".  Want to guess how much of the world's electricity is produced by wind?


2. You offer a small increase in jobs as  support for you claim of "dying" industry? You have a non-standard definition of "dying".[/QUOTE]

You didn’t read the report, did you?

All job growth was in the Appalachian region. All of the coal producing states loss jobs. All job growth related to exports as domestic use continued to drop. 

Worse still, more and more coal fired electricity plants closed in the US or switched over to natural gas. No new plants opened. 

Seriously guys, it’s time to down real money to train these miners for jobs with a future.


----------



## Correll (Mar 9, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...






1. 40% of world electricity production is not "gone".  Want to guess how much of the world's electricity is produced by wind?


2. You offer a small increase in jobs as  support for you claim of "dying" industry? You have a non-standard definition of "dying".[/QUOTE]

You didn’t read the report, did you?

All job growth was in the Appalachian region. All of the coal producing states loss jobs. All job growth related to exports as domestic use continued to drop.

Worse still, more and more coal fired electricity plants closed in the US or switched over to natural gas. No new plants opened.

Seriously guys, it’s time to down real money to train these miners for jobs with a future.[/QUOTE]


1. Training is code for we throw some money at you so we can pretend we didn't just dump on you on the trash heap.

2. I asked a question. WHat percentage of world electricity generation do you think wind is?


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## BluesLegend (Mar 9, 2018)

BlackSand said:


> BluesLegend said:
> 
> 
> > Should we allow other countries like communist China to dump steel in the U.S. killing jobs for American workers? That's what liberals in this thread are saying. If China dumping steel into the U.S. was hurting illegals the liberals would be in an uproar.
> ...



California is way ahead of you, they slap $100,000 of "inspection fees" on new homes. Inspection fees, get it, wink wink cough taxes cough.


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## BlackSand (Mar 9, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


> California is way ahead of you, they slap $100,000 of "inspection fees" on new homes. Inspection fees, get it, wink wink cough taxes cough.



Shit ... If we try more of this shit harder ... We can screw everyone.

.


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## Manonthestreet (Mar 9, 2018)




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## kaz (Mar 9, 2018)

Correll said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



OMG, repeating a strawman.  That's incredible, who could dispute that?


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 9, 2018)

SmokeALib said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...




Oh!  I know that for sure.  His name is David Dennison I mean Donald Trump.


----------



## Correll (Mar 10, 2018)

kaz said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > kaz said:
> ...




Free Trade was supposed to make American manufacturing more competitive. The workers who lost jobs were supposed to be retrained and find new high tech jobs.


That's not a straw man, that was the argument for the policy.


Is that what happened?


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## kaz (Mar 10, 2018)

Correll said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Single cause fallacy.  The dynamics of the world aren't that simplistic.  I'm sorry you miss the fifties, but the world has changed.  

It's sad how the US became the most powerful country in the history of the world by embracing change, and now we're being destroyed by fear by people who think you can resist change.

My career is in management and management consulting.  Americans have the most kick ass business leadership in the world.  Our greatest enemy for American success isn't foreign competition.  It's people like you who vote in politicians manipulating your fear.

How ironic is it that your fear of failure actually leads to failure?


----------



## Correll (Mar 10, 2018)

kaz said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > kaz said:
> ...




So splain it, Complex Man. Explain why we are supposed to ignore the fact that the promised results of a policy did not occur. 





> It's sad how the US became the most powerful country in the history of the world by embracing change, and now we're being destroyed by fear by people who think you can resist change.




Sorry pal. You the one not adjusting his ideology to new information. YOu're the one that wants to ride a failed policy right down to Third World Status.





> My career is in management and management consulting.  Americans have the most kick ass business leadership in the world.  Our greatest enemy for American success isn't foreign competition.  It's people like you who vote in politicians manipulating your fear.




I believe it looks that way in your office and the offices of your peers.


You take a ride down Main Street in any Rust Belt town, and it will look a lot different.


That's tens of millions of people that have been very poorly served by policy for the last 50 years.









> How ironic is it that your fear of failure actually leads to failure?





It would be ironic, if it happens. 


First problem with that, is that what we have now, is not success. 


Did you hear about how Whites in this country are actually experiencing a DECLINE in life expectancy? 


That's a pretty strong indicator of FAILURE.


----------



## kaz (Mar 10, 2018)

Correll said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Begging the question.  You haven't established that free trade caused any harm.  If you are poor in the US, you're middle class in the world.  If you're middle class in the US, you're rich in the world.  We're one of the richest countries on the planet.

You haven't established there's a problem


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## Correll (Mar 10, 2018)

kaz said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > kaz said:
> ...




Here is the problem, long term wage stagnation.

Wage Stagnation in Nine Charts











"The figure shows that in the three decades following World War II, hourly compensation of the vast majority of workers rose 91 percent, roughly in line with productivity growth of 97 percent. But for most of the past generation (except for a brief period in the late 1990s), pay for the vast majority lagged further and further behind overall productivity. From 1973 to 2013, hourly compensation of a typical (production/nonsupervisory) worker rose just 9 percent while productivity increased 74 percent. This breakdown of pay growth has been especially evident in the last decade, affecting both college- and non-college-educated workers as well as blue- and white-collar workers. This means that workers have been producing far more than they receive in their paychecks and benefit packages from their employers."








Note the interesting correlation between de coupling rising productivity and wages with the switch to trade deficits.


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## kaz (Mar 10, 2018)

Correll said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



That couldn't be because labor is cheaper overseas, could it?  Of course not.

Cheaper goods benefits consumers and the economy overall.  Government providing jobs is a terrible idea


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## BluesLegend (Mar 10, 2018)

President Trump snarls and cheating U.S. trade partners shit themselves good job president Trump


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## Correll (Mar 10, 2018)

kaz said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > kaz said:
> ...





1. That is obviously part of it, though it does not explain the trade deficits with the EU. 


2.  And regardless, how does saying "cheap labor" change the fact that it has harmed the American worker?


3. HOw is generations of wage stagnation a benefit to US consumers?


4 False choice. THe choice is not between Tariffs and some Ideal of Free Trade, but between two philosophies of Trade POlicy.


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## usmbguest5318 (Mar 10, 2018)

justinacolmena said:


> retaliatory against Europe, Canada, and the rest of the German Axis for the harshly imposed VAT


VAT is not a tariff.  It is an _ad valorem_ tax.


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## usmbguest5318 (Mar 10, 2018)

justinacolmena said:


> Illegal aliens have been sabotaging our domestic steel, aluminum and other manufacturing facilities and general capabilities.


Credible documentation of this, please?


----------



## TheOldSchool (Mar 10, 2018)

Xelor said:


> justinacolmena said:
> 
> 
> > Illegal aliens have been sabotaging our domestic steel, aluminum and other manufacturing facilities and general capabilities.
> ...


I think it's Trumpspeak.  Where you just say whatever crazy thing you want and it'll be backed up by legions of rubes that could care less if it's true or not.


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## yiostheoy (Mar 10, 2018)

TheOldSchool said:


> Xelor said:
> 
> 
> > justinacolmena said:
> ...


You are probably right.


----------



## yiostheoy (Mar 10, 2018)

frigidweirdo said:


> justinacolmena said:
> 
> 
> > Trump is slapping tariffs on imported steel and aluminum.
> ...


Fokk Germany.

Fokk the EU.

Fokk Asia.


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## kaz (Mar 10, 2018)

Correll said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



If you want more manufacturing onshore, advocate we remove all the restrictions and taxes government is inflicting on business for hiring employees here.

Government has done nothing but punish companies and your solution is to punish them more.  That man's drunk, give him a drink!


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## Correll (Mar 10, 2018)

kaz said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > kaz said:
> ...




1. Not all of those restrictions are ones I want to see removed. Safety regulations on big rigs on the roads for one example.

2. Taxes? Sure, might be a contributing factor. But just addressing that won't do it, and you know it.

3. My point about the correlation between wage stagnation and trade deficits stand. 

4. My point about our trade deficit with the EU stands.

5. My point about "cheap labor" not changing the fact of wage stagnation stands.

6. My question of how "wage stagnation of generations" is a benefit to US consumers, stands.


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## usmbguest5318 (Mar 10, 2018)

TheOldSchool said:


> Xelor said:
> 
> 
> > justinacolmena said:
> ...


Oh, well, now that you mention it, here, that is definitely possible.  I guess I was trying to give the member the benefit of the doubt that the claim might actually be legit.  But you're quite right in recognizing that the claim could very probably be pure bunkum.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 10, 2018)

*Trustfundie Treehuggers
*
The gas and oil industry finances the propaganda against its competitors, coal and forest products.  That includes their unwittingly loyal sons, the GreenHeads.  But this is heresy to those who believe the plutocratic puppet show presents reality.


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## basquebromance (Mar 10, 2018)

"The European Union, wonderful countries who treat the U.S. very badly on trade, are complaining about the tariffs on Steel & Aluminum. If they drop their horrific barriers & tariffs on U.S. products going in, we will likewise drop ours. Big Deficit. If not, we Tax Cars etc. FAIR!" - President Trump


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## Indeependent (Mar 10, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Reasonable said:
> ...


Sanders had *Super Delegates* sweep his ass out of the way for Hillary, the Globalist.
Now have some camomile tea.


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## Indeependent (Mar 10, 2018)

ABikerSailor said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


Apparently, the entire Democratic Party disagrees with you.
I know, I know, you know dipshit about his relationship with the Democratic Party and why Sanders became an Independent.
But what can I expect from a knee jerk, cock sucking ideologue such as yourself?


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 10, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > kaz said:
> ...


Because we've all seen the perfect results of wll thought out policies since Reagan...
Feeling stupid yet?
I got news for you cupcake, Trump will reverse anything that doesn't work, because, unlike the rest of the bought and paid off political elite, Trump doesn't give a shit about keeping the status quo.


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## Wickerthing (Mar 10, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
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If I'm a cupcake then why don't you bite me?  Status quo?  He cares about two things and two things only Money and perverted sex acts with the golden showers crowd.  Maybe he actually thinks that stuff is gold.  He has set himself and his family up as a cottage industry right under the noses of his followers.  He's convinced lots of very naive folks that he cares about them.  The middle class and working poor are beneath him and all the bullshit promises are just that.  "You'll have terrific healthcare at a tiny fraction of blah blah blah"  It'll all be so easy!  "You'll be tired of winning.  "Only the best people!"  

And as you fools sat there all glassy-eyed and hopeful he was already planning how to get away with raping the country.  Disappearing Inauguration loot, marketing Ivanka's line of goods, Peddling influence to anyone with the price of admission.  Selling real estate to Russian spies and laundering Putin's dirty money through real estate deals that make no logical sense.  Stiffing wounded warriors out of their money, stiffing hopeful students out of their life blood and stiffing every contractor and lawyer he ever met. Appointing Cabinet chiefs hand picked by Putin, Appointing Cabinet Chiefs with no skills and an almost equal thirst for wealth.  Handing off the most security intensive tasks to family with no clearances.  

Yeah, he doesn't care much for the way things were.  That's a fact.  Just like his famous alternative facts, he's creating an alternative reality.  And now he's gonna meet with a nuclear-armed childish madman to talk peace?  Talk about kindred spirits.  It's been a wild ride so far and I only hope we can all get off safely when that ride is stopped by Mueller and his team.  

We haven't seen anything yet.  .


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## Indeependent (Mar 10, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
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Which is why he's addressing his platform and not kissing Democratic or Republican ass.
Either you are mentally disturbed or you really don't know the Democratic or Republican platforms.


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## Correll (Mar 11, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
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Don't rule out  both. NOthing saying it could not be both. Both seems really likely with this one.


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## kaz (Mar 11, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> He cares about two things and two things only Money and perverted sex acts with the golden showers crowd



Just stop right there.  You supported a sexual predator ... twice ... and then his ho who attacked his victims a third time.

Just cut the stupid shit that you have moral standards


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## kaz (Mar 11, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
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He doesn't care.  It's just a team sport for Wickerthing


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## Supposn (Mar 11, 2018)

justinacolmena said:


> Trump is slapping tariffs on imported steel and aluminum.
> 
> There is a lot more to this than meets the eye.
> No. Tariffs do not improve the economy. They are punitive and, on the part of the U.S., retaliatory against Europe, Canada, and the rest of the German Axis for the harshly imposed VAT and other tariffs already long since placed on goods exported from the U.S. ...





Supposn said:


> yiostheoy said:
> 
> 
> > The French invented this tax on themselves and it is popular in Europe.
> ...



_Trade deficits are always detrimental to their nation's GDP and drag upon their numbers of jobs._

_If USA adopted the Import Certificate policy, it would increase our GDP and numbers of jobs more than otherwise. Your rant about trade wars would lead to armed conflict is unrealistic. _

_Refer to Wikipedia's “Import Certificates” article._

_Respectfully, Supposn_


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## justinacolmena (Mar 11, 2018)

Supposn said:


> If USA adopted the Import Certificate policy, it would increase our GDP and numbers of jobs more than otherwise.



Boolshit. Slapping more paperwork on it just drags down the economy of everyone who has to deal with the aforementioned paperwork. Half the paperwork is already fake on goods imported into the U.S., and we are already having other problems because the foreign goods being delivered to the U.S. are inferior to what we ordered and paid for and what is on all the paperwork.


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## Wickerthing (Mar 11, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
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Is he addressing the plank that was mysteriously changed to benefit Putin?  Yeah, I guess he just forgot that one.


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## Manonthestreet (Mar 11, 2018)

Today the U.S. has only one steel mill that can produce the advanced alloys used in armored-vehicle plating; one aluminum smelter that makes the high-grade aluminum needed for defense aerospace applications; and one steel mill that makes the materials needed for infrastructure like electrical transformers.

These tariffs aim to reverse this sorry state of affairs. Companies that produce steel and aluminum have said these tariffs will allow them to reopen mills, expand operations, attract new workers, and maintain critical steel- and aluminum-making skills.  Why We Imposed the Metal Tariffs | Lux Libertas - Light and Liberty


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## Wickerthing (Mar 11, 2018)

kaz said:


> Indeependent said:
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If you're saying I enjoy kicking the asses of Trumpbots, you are absolutely right.  Someone has to at least try to show you what a massive blunder it was to support this compromised moron in the white house.  To support this clown is to effectively support Putin in his quest to fuck with our democracy. Every time you deny what is painfully obvious to the majority of Americans, you further the Russian agenda.  Trump is not only a horror of a human being but a cancer on the office of the President.


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## Wickerthing (Mar 11, 2018)

Manonthestreet said:


> Today the U.S. has only one steel mill that can produce the advanced alloys used in armored-vehicle plating; one aluminum smelter that makes the high-grade aluminum needed for defense aerospace applications; and one steel mill that makes the materials needed for infrastructure like electrical transformers.
> 
> These tariffs aim to reverse this sorry state of affairs. Companies that produce steel and aluminum have said these tariffs will allow them to reopen mills, expand operations, attract new workers, and maintain critical steel- and aluminum-making skills.  Why We Imposed the Metal Tariffs | Lux Libertas - Light and Liberty



Yeah, and other plants that produce products using steel and aluminum will close and others will nix plans for expansion and new facilities.


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## kaz (Mar 11, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> If you're saying I enjoy kicking the asses of Trumpbots, you are absolutely right



You're a very imaginative reader


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## Wickerthing (Mar 11, 2018)

kaz said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > He cares about two things and two things only Money and perverted sex acts with the golden showers crowd
> ...



I voted for Bernie.


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## Indeependent (Mar 11, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
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> > Wickerthing said:
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One reason, and one reason only, why we love Totalitarian China and hate Russia...
Comparative Advantage.
China provides cheap shit and Russia charges US rates.


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## Indeependent (Mar 11, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> kaz said:
> 
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You consider your knee jerk Trump Hating posts, which contain nothing else but Trump Hate, to be kicking ass?
I haven’t yet seen one post of yours that contains the first clue that you know anything about anything but hating Trump.


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## Wickerthing (Mar 11, 2018)

These Tariffs will do nothing to change either of those things and will hurt OUR economy in the final analysis.  
This from Fortune.   

These Industries Will Be Most Impacted by Trump's Steel and Aluminum Tariffs


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## Indeependent (Mar 11, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> kaz said:
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The same platform as Trump.
Completely different from Hillary.


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## Indeependent (Mar 11, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> These Tariffs will do nothing to change either of those things and will hurt OUR economy in the final analysis.
> This from Fortune.
> 
> These Industries Will Be Most Impacted by Trump's Steel and Aluminum Tariffs


We don’t know.
At least I admit I don’t know.


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## Wickerthing (Mar 11, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
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> > kaz said:
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Improve your reading skills.


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## HenryBHough (Mar 11, 2018)

Given that American consumers bent over and greased up to accept the massive costs government "safety" and "global warming tilting at windmills" have imposed?  Yeah, $150 is as nothing!


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 11, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> These Tariffs will do nothing to change either of those things and will hurt OUR economy in the final analysis.
> This from Fortune.
> 
> These Industries Will Be Most Impacted by Trump's Steel and Aluminum Tariffs


Sanders wanted tariffs.


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## Indeependent (Mar 11, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
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> > Wickerthing said:
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At least I have reading skills.


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## Wickerthing (Mar 11, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > These Tariffs will do nothing to change either of those things and will hurt OUR economy in the final analysis.
> ...



See!  You didn't even take the time to read and learn.  But I'm the clueless one.  LOL


----------



## Indeependent (Mar 11, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
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Uh, retard...
Sanders *ran *on tariffs.
And you sick Sanders cock just because he isn't a registered Republican.
And you *do *realize that almost every other nation charges us tariffs.
No, of course you don't realize that.


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## Wickerthing (Mar 11, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
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We're not talking about tariffs as an idea.  We're talking about THESE tariffs.  These don't do anything but punish ourselves.  All the talk was on China dumping cheap steel around the world.  This does nothing to stop that.  In fact, cheap Chinese steel will be more attractive to industry now.  See, you don't think things through.


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## Wickerthing (Mar 11, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
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You have a very broad view of trade and that's what a child does, everything is like this or that.  There are intricacies involved, not just Tariffs are good, Free trade Bad.  Silly.


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## Indeependent (Mar 11, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
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If there are intricacies, state them.
Currently, 99% of all economists are paid by Globalists, and that includes Universities, who by the way, are replacing American born minorities with Asian Student Visas, and most of them can't pay their bills if they tell the truth.


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## Indeependent (Mar 11, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
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Oh, lookie...You just quoted one of the most famous *Neo-Conservative* Publications on Earth!
*Fortune*!
You *hypocrite*!


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## Wickerthing (Mar 11, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
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Maybe I'm just not stuck on stupid like all you political Ideologists.  When something is right, it's right.  I'll quote from whomever I think has a handle on the issue at hand.  Unlike you, I'm not gonna reject what may be the correct interpretation just because my robot leader says so. You're so much a non thinking autopilot GOPbot.  It can only keep you from learning.  The other side isn't always wrong or right.  Think for yourself.


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## Monk-Eye (Mar 11, 2018)

*" Tricky Dickey Barters US Autonomy To China "*

** Nationalism Versus Libertarian Extremism **

American School (economics) - Wikipedia


> _It is a capitalist economic school based on the Hamiltonian economic program.[12] The American School of capitalism was intended to allow the United States to become economically independent and nationally self-sufficient.
> 
> The American School included three cardinal policy points:
> Support industry: The advocacy of protectionism, and opposition to free trade – particularly for the protection of "infant industries" and those facing import competition from abroad. Examples: Tariff Act of 1789, Tariff Act of 1816 and Morrill Tariff
> ...


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## Indeependent (Mar 11, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
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> > Wickerthing said:
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Nope!
You are definitely stuck on stupid.
If you read *Fortune *on a steady basis you would understand why the publishers and writes hate Trump with a passion.
*Fortune* is pure snobbery, business visas, open borders, cheap labor and massive unemployment to suppress wages and anti-Social benefits.
*Fortune* is survival of the fittest.
You're just another simpleton hunting and fishing for anything anti-Trump.
The trap you're in is that you have zero context on the issues or whose side anybody is on because your brain is stuck.
Both parties have gone too far but you're just stuck on Liberal.


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## Wickerthing (Mar 11, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
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> > Indeependent said:
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I believe their take on these tariffs is correct.  Again, you project your ideology on me.  Nobody is always wrong or always right and we as voters have to decide which issues we care about, weigh the options and make a decision.  

Nobody will ever have all my views or all your views unless you are as I said, stuck on stupid.  So, educate yourself and quit the broad brush approach to everything.  

As far as Trump, I see him as a cancer on our democracy and something that needs to be cut out.  He's even hijacked your party with his madness and your people in the GOP are too cowardly to stand up to his divisive bullshit.    Never realized just how yellow the party is.  Pun intended.


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## Indeependent (Mar 11, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
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"you project your ideology on me"
Perhaps it's due to the fact that 99.9999999% of your posts are, "I hate Trump".

After reading Fortune since 2001, I don't believe any of their opinions or analysis, which, by the way, are intended purely for the top 1% of 1% who don't want any business they invest in to be on American soil.
But of course you didn't know that either.


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## Monk-Eye (Mar 11, 2018)

*" Investing In Ones Own "*

** Productivity Versus Lethargy **

The benefit of assuming a role in a field of advancing technology is that one is challenged and compelled not only to understand and use it but one is also afforded an opportunity to possibly improve and apply it to other areas .

As the us has continued to cede its manufacturing infrastructure away from its citizens to peoples of other countries , it has also forsaken its own citizens of necessary learning opportunities to capitalize on resources in their possession that includes depriving their own economy of a Local multiplier effect - Wikipedia .


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## Wickerthing (Mar 11, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
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So, you are an avid reader of a publication you disagree with completely?  You want me to believe that hooey?  As for Trump, damn!  I was shooting for 100%.  He's doing damage to our democracy.  The fact that you don't see it further shows you are indeed "Stuck on Stupid."


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## Indeependent (Mar 11, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
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I had no choice; I wanted to know about how the real economy works.
That's how I got past Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity.
You won't learn anything about how you're being screwed until you study the enemies book.
That's what Patton did.


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## Manonthestreet (Mar 11, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> > Today the U.S. has only one steel mill that can produce the advanced alloys used in armored-vehicle plating; one aluminum smelter that makes the high-grade aluminum needed for defense aerospace applications; and one steel mill that makes the materials needed for infrastructure like electrical transformers.
> ...


Only time will tell. China was allowed to pack up our mfg infrastructure wholesale and ship it home. If war were to break out we need the capability to replace equipment, otherwise the only option you leave is nuclear retaliation.


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## ABikerSailor (Mar 11, 2018)

If you think that these tariffs aren't going to hurt American jobs, you might want to ask a uniquely American company...........................

Harley Davidson.  They are saying that these tariffs are going to cost them a whole bunch of money. 

Harley-Davidson: Trump's tariffs pose grave threat to famous American name

*Harley-Davidson is not having a great year. In January, the legendary bike company, struggling to reverse a four-year slide in sales, had to close its Kansas City factory. Now Donald Trump – who seems as if he’d like to be a Harley man – has added to its woes.


This week’s announcement of steel tariffs on US imports could add $30m to the company’s costs, according to Wedbush Securities, an investment firm. Worse still, European leaders are threatening retaliation, and several symbols of Americana – including Kentucky whiskey, Levi’s and Harley-Davidson motorcycles – are on their list.*


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## Wickerthing (Mar 11, 2018)

ABikerSailor said:


> If you think that these tariffs aren't going to hurt American jobs, you might want to ask a uniquely American company...........................
> 
> Harley Davidson.  They are saying that these tariffs are going to cost them a whole bunch of money.
> 
> ...




Hell, just ask his own defense industry.  Added costs will chew up a lot of defense dollars and throw the whole budget out of whack.  Truth is, he didn't think things through.  Just another example of governance by impulse.  Now I'm hearing from the Trump folks that it's a great idea to set a meeting with Kim.  Trump has already shown his knee jerk reaction with him.  

And, after the dismantling of the State Dept, we have a shortage of informed opinions and tempered reactions to what it all means.  For Trump to agree to such a meet without consulting historians and folks who understand such matters is ill-conceived and ill-advised.  No mention of conditions, no attempt to gain the release of political prisoners etc.  

So-far, no leverage at all.  We've gotta watch what unfolds before just thinking what a great idea this is.


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## Wickerthing (Mar 11, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Yet the enemy in the white house is not on your radar as a threat?


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## Wickerthing (Mar 11, 2018)

Yeah, I'm sure trump never really considered what the reactions to those tariffs would be.  He even had to be told that Canada was the biggest supplier to the US and that to hurt S korea at a crucial time in history of the region might be a potential problem.  Someone on his team and in his ear got through to him at least on those two issues.  This guy is a clear and present danger to all of us and our allies.  Beside being a horror of a human being, he's a moron.  Tillerson got it right on that one. 

Still working on my 100%, indep.


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## HenryBHough (Mar 11, 2018)

Maybe if The EU (Jonesing to become "The United States of Europe") were to remove tariffs on Americcan goods...like vehicles...then there might be justification for not imposing tariffs on steel.........

l challenge the Franco/German axis to "go first".....


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## Indeependent (Mar 11, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


Strawman...stick to the subject which *you* said is not Trump Hatred.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 12, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


*Dud Scarecrows*

You haven't seen anything at all.  But keep it up; your giggling-adolescent comical exaggerations ensure that nobody will take crackpot Trumpophobes like you seriously.  Do you think that Aleczheimer Baldwin's caricature of Trump as lazy and uninterested convinced anybody?  Yet Kate McKinnon's portrayal of hillary was too close to home to avoid affecting voters' opinions.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 12, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...




Do me a favor.  If I ever post without including Trump hatred, tell me so I can edit and include some.  BTW You needed to read Fortune, a publication you despise, to get past Limbaugh and Hannity?  Any thinking and functioning person could see what they are all about in about ten seconds.  Took you 17 years?  No wonder you support Trump.   About 17 years from now you'll have that one in your rear view mirror too.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 12, 2018)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



We have a lunatic destroying your democracy and you want to talk about SNL?  And then you top that snit off with calling me an adolescent.  That's rich.  Go back to your sandbox.  BTW  Trump is lazy and uninterested.  Except when he watches Fox and Friends or tweets like a fucking baby.  He's a guy with no idea what he's doing surrounded by others who don't know what they're doing.  For you to brush that off and talk trash about Alec Baldwin puts you squarely on his maturity level, which I see to be about 9 yrs old.


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## kaz (Mar 12, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> The Sage of Main Street said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...



This is classic. 

You say, "And then you top that snit off with calling me an adolescent.  That's rich."

And you follow it up by proving him right ...

"Go back to your sandbox.  BTW  Trump is lazy and uninterested.  Except when he watches Fox and Friends or tweets like a fucking baby.  He's a guy with no idea what he's doing surrounded by others who don't know what they're doing.  For you to brush that off and talk trash about Alec Baldwin puts you squarely on his maturity level, which I see to be about 9 yrs old."

LMAO

Can't make that shit up ...


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 12, 2018)

kaz said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > The Sage of Main Street said:
> ...



So, you can read.  Hey, that's a start.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 12, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> These Tariffs will do nothing to change either of those things and will hurt OUR economy in the final analysis.
> This from Fortune.
> 
> These Industries Will Be Most Impacted by Trump's Steel and Aluminum Tariffs


*Free Traders Are Traitors*

Better to have our money circulate within America than be drained away by foreigners.


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## kaz (Mar 12, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
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Yes, I can.  Thank you.  Unfortunately, I can't return the compliment


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## Indeependent (Mar 12, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
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> > Wickerthing said:
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Ad hominem.
It’s obvious you are irrational and a liar since you stated your purpose was to discuss truth and not simply to rant.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 12, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
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*Globalist Capitalism Is a Capital Offense
*
No patriot read sales pitches by outsourcing traitors.


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## Wickerthing (Mar 12, 2018)

kaz said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
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> > kaz said:
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Now that's exactly what I'm talking about.  What you just did is the equivalent of Peewee Herman's "I know you are but what am I?"  But it's all that can be expected from a trumpsheep.


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## Wickerthing (Mar 12, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
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What the hell do you or your hero know about truth?


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## Indeependent (Mar 12, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
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Be concrete...select an issue.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 12, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
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> ...


*Imprimatur et Imperemus*

Which also has an article on why the Internet must be regulated more to ban those who don't parrot the diverse gurus the ruling class hires to send us off on tangents.


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## kaz (Mar 12, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...



For your limited reading ability, I suppose that's as close as you're going to come


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## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 12, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > If you think that these tariffs aren't going to hurt American jobs, you might want to ask a uniquely American company...........................
> ...


*Iagos*

For decades, we've been misled by the State Department and the useless acadummy nerds it uses to pretty up its ignorance and arrogance.


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## Correll (Mar 12, 2018)

kaz said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > The Sage of Main Street said:
> ...




Liberals: All the self awareness of a potted plant.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 13, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> The Sage of Main Street said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


*Snowflakes Turning Into Slush*

The one who "doesn't know what he's doing" is doing you in.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Mar 13, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


*A Blizzard of Buzzards in Their Bliss*

Patriots call them "snowflakes" because they are fuzzy and flurry furiously.


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## ChrisL (Mar 13, 2018)

Trump is right on tariffs -- That’s why he was elected

President Trump is simply doing what he said he would do during the presidential campaign – protecting American workers and safeguarding our national security, all at the same time.

And the president put a human face on a problem that has touched millions of Americans across this country on Thursday by making his announcement surrounded by steel and aluminum workers. His action underscores the fact that no one has stood up for the forgotten men and women of this nation as industry after industry, job after job, has disappeared because of unfair and non-reciprocal trade practices.

Being born in Rhode Island, a state that has lost countless blue-color jobs for decades, I can relate to this issue on a personal level. I know dozens of hardworking people back home who have lost their careers because their jobs were offshored overseas or their industries were destroyed by predatory trade practices.

Now President Trump is standing up and fighting for these Americans. We can debate the policy – in fact we should, in an honest manner – but we should all be proud that our president is actually trying to do something to preserve American jobs. I know I am.


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## ABikerSailor (Mar 13, 2018)

You know ChrisL, Harley Davidson is saying that the tariffs are going to hurt their business, and it will end up costing them something around 30 million because of it. 

Economics expert: Tariffs on foreign steel could hurt Harley-Davidson 3 ways


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## Monk-Eye (Mar 13, 2018)

*" Congressional Budget Office Speculation "*

** Domestic Purchasing Time Will Tell ** 



ABikerSailor said:


> You know ChrisL, Harley Davidson is saying that the tariffs are going to hurt their business, and it will end up costing them something around 30 million because of it.
> Economics expert: Tariffs on foreign steel could hurt Harley-Davidson 3 ways


Harley-Davidson, other motorcycle manufacturers face big challenges in 2018


> _*The world’s largest manufacturer of heavyweight bikes saw a 40% drop in its third-quarter 2017 profit, to $68.2 million from $114.1 million in the same period a year earlier.*
> 
> In the United States, *Harley and other motorcycle manufacturers are caught between two customer demographic trends: millennials who aren’t widely embracing the motorcycling lifestyle, and baby boomers who are aging out of riding.* They’ve also seen sales decline in some states, including Texas, where the economy took a tumble.
> 
> ...



** Products Are Purchased By Those Capable Of And Wanting To Spend **



Monk-Eye said:


> *" Tricky Dickey Barters US Autonomy To China "*
> 
> ** Nationalism Versus Libertarian Extremism **
> 
> ...




** Supposing Supply For Demand To Those Who Would Spend It First **

Fiscal multiplier - Wikipedia


> _In congressional testimony given in July 2008, Mark Zandi, chief economist for Moody's Economy.com, provided estimates of the one-year multiplier effect for several fiscal policy options. *The multipliers showed that any form of increased government spending would have more of a multiplier effect than any form of tax cuts.* The most effective policy, a temporary increase in food stamps, had an estimated multiplier of 1.73. The lowest multiplier for a spending increase was general aid to state governments, 1.36. Among tax cuts, multipliers ranged from 1.29 for a payroll tax holiday down to 0.27 for accelerated depreciation. *Making the Bush tax cuts permanent had the second-lowest multiplier, 0.29.* *Refundable lump-sum tax rebates, the policy used in the Economic Stimulus Act of 2008, had the second-largest multiplier for a tax cut, 1.26.[7]*
> 
> As has been discussed, the multiplier relies on the *MPC (marginal propensity to consume).* The use of the term MPC here is a reference to the MPC of a country (or similar economic unit) as a whole, and the theory and the mathematical formulae apply to this use of the term.
> 
> ...



** What Will Benefit Futures The Most **

Planned economy - Wikipedia


> _Planned economies are held in contrast with command economies, where a planned economy is "an economic system in which the government controls and regulates production, distribution, prices, etc."[11] but *a command economy, while also having this type of regulation, necessarily has substantial public ownership of industry.[12]* Therefore, command economies are planned economies, but not necessarily the reverse._



Indicative planning - Wikipedia


> _Indicative planning is a form of economic planning implemented by a state in an effort to solve the problem of imperfect information in market and mixed economies in order to increase economic performance. However, indicative planning takes only endogenous market uncertainty and plans the economy accordingly and does not look into exogenous uncertainty like technology, foreign trade, etc. *When utilizing indicative planning, the state employs "influence, subsidies, grants, and taxes [to affect the economy], but does not compel".[1]* Indicative planning is contrasted with directive or mandatory planning, where a state (or other economic unit) sets quotas and mandatory output requirements. Planning by inducement is often referred to as indicative planning._


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 14, 2018)

ChrisL said:


> Trump is right on tariffs -- That’s why he was elected
> 
> President Trump is simply doing what he said he would do during the presidential campaign – protecting American workers and safeguarding our national security, all at the same time.
> 
> ...



You can go right on believing Trump cares about the working class but he doesn't.  The tariffs were all about appearances and the usual impulsive actions with no forethought.  I'm also a Rhody guy, grew up in Pawtucket and Providence and I've seen some of the most corrupt administrations come and go there and that's what the Trump gang smells like to me.  Same game, different Mob.


----------



## Monk-Eye (Mar 15, 2018)

*" Utilitarianism On Extremes of Individualism Versus Necessities of Collectivism "*

** Financial Security Is National Security ** 



Wickerthing said:


> You can go right on believing Trump cares about the working class but he doesn't.  The tariffs were all about appearances and the usual impulsive actions with no forethought.  I'm also a Rhody guy, grew up in Pawtucket and Providence and I've seen some of the most corrupt administrations come and go there and that's what the Trump gang smells like to me.  Same game, different Mob.


The economic libertarianism ( economic liberalism ) of anarcho-capitalists , likely more often than not , places national allegiance far below self interests and that culpability for succumbing to greed jeopardizes long term wealth of the nation for short term wealth of their own self interests .

Trump administration’s block in Qualcomm vs. Broadcom merger should shake tech to its core


> While there are many issues at stake in the merger, the one that drove interest in Washington has been Qualcomm’s leadership role in 5G, a technology that the Trump administration considers to be a national security priority. *Only two companies in the world have the technological prowess today in this emerging standard: U.S.-based Qualcomm and China-based Huawei.*
> 
> Washington’s concern has been that a Broadcom takeover of Qualcomm would mean that America’s only player in the 5G race would be eliminated through budget cutting, leaving China to monopolize a key technology standard for a generation.
> 
> ...


----------



## ChrisL (Mar 15, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Trump is right on tariffs -- That’s why he was elected
> ...



Why not just be honest and admit that anything Trump does whether it is beneficial to the people or not, you are going to hate.  This is nothing NEW.  Please.  Lol.


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 15, 2018)

ChrisL said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



Let me know when he does something for anyone but himself.  The fact that you are okay with him is what's laughable.  You're right about me hating him.  He's colluded with Russia to mess with our elections and he's laundered money for them.  He's a clear and present danger and the fact that you can't see what's right in front of you is really amazing.  But, good luck anyway.


----------



## Monk-Eye (Mar 16, 2018)

*" US Citizens Call Bull Shit With #I_SLAM_A_PHOBIA "*

** Principal Public Perception Instigators *



Wickerthing said:


> Let me know when he does something for anyone but himself.  The fact that you are okay with him is what's laughable.  You're right about me hating him.  He's colluded with Russia to mess with our elections and he's laundered money for them.  He's a clear and present danger and the fact that you can't see what's right in front of you is really amazing.  But, good luck anyway.


The saudis have more of an influence on us elections and us policy than the russians ever could .

The left caused its own afflictions by embracing the bull shit lies for fictional ishmaelism perpetrated by the multi-billion dollar slush fund of the terrorist saudis that promotes propaganda for the facilitation of terrorist ideologies globally .   The cognitive dissonance of defending the hisbah embracing minority , while remaining intolerant of the intolerant , has caused an irreconcilable and split brain personality , such that any educated about the depravities , history and intolerance by doctrine of fictional ishmaelism is deemed an intolerant rather than one defending themselves and their liberty from democracy as tyranny by majority .   

The left caused its own afflictions by embracing illegal immigration along with the ridiculous and unnecessary levels of immigration ( 1.4 million permanent annual , first come first serve low skilled with chain immigration to boot ) with persistent anti-racist-racist undertones that completely ignore the global demographic of homogeneous populations and its disproportionate numerical representation of those identities seeking a one way influx into demographics whose identities are targeted as not entitled to a homogeneous identity or even representative majority or self autonomy .  If the left wanted to do something about global warming it would bring up the issue of global population and how to control it ; and , you better believe that facilitating more directionless population growth and its environmental demands is not a wise direction .

That don all strumpet is pandering to the puritanical religious reich in the us is annoying in many degrees , and the left is coalescing its base on some of those issues , but the sickness of the left embrace for fictional ishmaelism and social destruction through mass pointless immigration remains .

** Fanatics Promoting Its Evil Agenda **

Saudi Arabia lobby in the United States - Wikipedia


> _In the first decade of the 21st century the Saudis paid approximately $100 million to American firms to lobby the American government.[4]
> 
> Major lobbying firms that work as lobbyists in the pay of the Saudi government include Hill & Knowlton, which has been employed to lobby for Saudi Arabia since 1982.[4] Qorvis Communications has worked for Saudi Arabia since the 9/11 attacks, receiving over $60.3 million over the course of a decade.[5][6]Hogan Lovells U.S., L.L.P., formerly Hogan & Harston, worked for Saudi Arabia in 2009.[4] The Loeffler Group, LLP, headed by former Congressman Tom Loeffler of Texas, was paid $10.5 million by the Saudi government during the first decade of the century, and gave Sandler Innocenzi, Inc. $8.9 million.[4] Patton Boggs, LLP, earned over $3 million from Saudi Arabia for lobbying in the first decade of the century.[4]
> 
> ...


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 16, 2018)

Monk-Eye said:


> *" US Citizens Call Bull Shit With #I_SLAM_A_PHOBIA "*
> 
> ** Principal Public Perception Instigators *
> 
> ...



Why is it that I get the feeling you write for your self more than anybody else?  Nothing you've said here dispels the fact that every intell agency has concluded that Russia was and is responsible for the interference in our elections and that those efforts are ongoing.  To compare lobbying efforts to shape US policy to outright manual manipulation, is to distract from the issue.  All these efforts by the right to point the finger in every direction but at Putin's govt are serving the interests of Putin and Trump to the exclusion of addressing what is proven to have occurred. 
What country doesn't lobby the US to attempt to shape policy?  That's a given.  And no amount of wordplay can change the fact that lobbying is a separate issue to a blatant attack on our democracy that may have been encouraged and/or aided by the Trump campaign.  The interests of Trump and Putin were served directly by those actions unlike a more persuasive minded approach employed by many countries and governments.  One is a diplomatic and normal set of events and one is criminal and a direct attack on our system of governance.  To equate them or to attempt to paint them as just business as usual is wrong minded and is supportive of what Russia tried to accomplish and continues to employ for the foreseeable future.  
And to assert that the United States is unique in its policies of immigration is to recognize what we have stood for since our inception.  So what else is new?  Let me remind you that the only people who are not descendants of immigrants are native Americans.  
Tyranny by majority?  If you are referring to majority by color, creed, or nationality, I'll remind you again that America has tried through laws, policies, and national pride not to make those kinds of distinctions.  The fact that the far right has tried to make a break with those inalienable rights is about as anti American as any policy could be.  So, go sell that BS elsewhere.


----------



## Monk-Eye (Mar 17, 2018)

*" Typical Patterns Of Coping With Rejection "*

** Stands Alone Even If Together **


Wickerthing said:


> Why is it that I get the feeling you write for your self more than anybody else?


** Public Policy Of Open Persuasion ** 


Wickerthing said:


> Nothing you've said here dispels the fact that every intell agency has concluded that Russia was and is responsible for the interference in our elections and that those efforts are ongoing.  *To compare lobbying efforts to shape US policy to outright manual manipulation, is to distract from the issue.*


To me outright manipulation means that russians rigged election boxes , or sent their own agents to the voting booth .

Rigging elections is like allowing illegal immigrants to register and cast votes as if they were citizens , or allowing a vote to be cast for the deceased , or casting votes for individuals who did not show up to vote , or coercing voters to a particular candidate by threat .

We have a policy which prevents foreign agents from contributing to political campaigns or sponsoring advertisements for candidates , but how does that tie into the money grubbing of news outlets , new releases and its affects in social media ?

Your version of outright manipulation of an election may very well include bernie sanders or gary johnson as malicious characters who intentionally undercut democrat numbers .

The fervent adherents of political parties often excuse the deeds of their puppets for the greater aspirations available by their representation for party lines .

If putin had a bent towards hillary and did his best to undermine her campaign , then ' caveat emptor ' , and in four years we can all reassess and decide again . 

It was obvious that hillary had plenty of baggage and , at least for a while , americans no longer wished to entertain politics in line with the former communist party and self deprecating , saudi payroll , germanic identity killer , angela merkel ; to see the two of them together , rubbing labia , may very well could have cause many to incur an embolism .

** Whose Fault Four Deflecting Responsibility **


Wickerthing said:


> All these efforts by the right to point the finger in every direction but at Putin's govt are serving the interests of Putin and Trump to the exclusion of addressing what is proven to have occurred.
> 
> *What country doesn't lobby the US to attempt to shape policy?  That's a given.*


If you are satisfied with lobbying , then are you certain to be dissatisfied with the involvement of foreign agents in persuading public opinion ?

Personally , the 100s of billions from the saudi slush fund to normalize fictional ishmaelism ( mosques , madrasa , immigration , political activists ) with its constant pandering and subversion of the left with donations to embrace i slam adherents into a category of minority victims , rather than the vile , intolerant , terrorist facilitating , supremacists by doctrine , sycophants , qualifies as an equal comparative with your perception for " outright manipulation " of an election . 

The split mind of the left , which cannot discern whether it should defend minorities or defend the intolerant , is causing it to miss an obvious indicator of motive against the democrats in the presidential election .

You may not be able to imagine the messages left on the voice mail of jeb bush regarding his despicable family association with the saudi fiends and that the day he would get my vote for president would be the day hell froze over .

Another guess at a contributor for the election outcome was the affordable care act which compelled individuals to pay for personal health insurance rather than pocketing the cost of insurance and sticking medicaid with the bill should they encounter an issue , and those in that financial situation would have found more reason to vote for republicans bantering to get rid of the individual mandate , when the affordable care act served republican interests far more than it did democrats .

** Mocking Philosophical Hubris **


Wickerthing said:


> The fact that the far right has tried to make a break with those inalienable rights is about as anti American as any policy could be.  So, go sell that BS elsewhere.


Whomever you believe to be debating , inalienable wrights and the contemporary definition of natural wrights are a farce .

According to moral relativism , no one owes anyone a damn thing , and that missing facet of realism is why secular humanism is morally bankrupt ; sorry , anthropocentrism , whether from the religious reich , or from the humanitarian fool does not set well with me .

The simple fact is that wrights can be alienated , and that is why one surrenders natural freedoms for membership in a social civil contract to secure liberties for its own self interests .

Citizens determine their membership and that need not be according to some some pious , pompous , expectation for a confused egalitarian perception , without a discriminate address .


----------



## Wickerthing (Mar 17, 2018)

Monk-Eye said:


> *" Typical Patterns Of Coping With Rejection "*
> 
> ** Stands Alone Even If Together **
> 
> ...




Maybe i wasn't specific enough and believe me I'm no fan of the house of Saud.  If Bushco really wanted revenge for 9/11 he could have exacted that by attacking that house and to do business as usual after ignoring the fact that it was Saudis on those planes, speaks volumes about the GOP's long standing relationship with that house through the love of oil and riches.  But I was talking about the manipulation by a foreign adversary of long standing of our electoral process through the use of social media and only they know if that manipulation included direct physical changes to voting machines, voter registration lists etc.  I guess we'll find out later especially in light of the fact that this current administration has no sense of urgency and hasn't completely accepted that it was Russia that was the culprit.  

Your view of the world seems to have a very negative base especially when it comes to social justice.  I believe it isn't as predetermined as you think nor is it foolish as you put it to believe that social change is possible and should be pursued.  Of course there are forces born of greed and selfishness standing in the way of making changes but that's always been the case and many indignities and social ills have been at least dealt a blow or two by the humanitarian fools like myself.  So you can keep your philosophy of hopelessness and finality and I'll keep the faith that it is those of us who recognize the difficulty of addressing social problems as they arise but believe in a society in which those forces of evil will be defeated through sheer aggressive determination.  I believe that as imperfect as our political system is, it will be the left that will snuff out the greed and disdain for the working man that defines the right.


----------



## Monk-Eye (Mar 21, 2018)

*" Nonspecific Direction "*

** Entitlement To Self Defense Pet Peeve **



Wickerthing said:


> Maybe i wasn't specific enough and believe me I'm no fan of the house of Saud.  If Bushco really wanted revenge for 9/11 he could have exacted that by attacking that house and to do business as usual after ignoring the fact that it was Saudis on those planes, speaks volumes about the GOP's long standing relationship with that house through the love of oil and riches.


 Whether it is bluffing ton post , or the mussel men bother hood , or tay yip yap ear dog again and turn key fools , or the reprobates at cair , or linda sars sour , or pop sugar , or any of the other fictional ishmaelism institutions and outlets on the take , the left embraces them with a split mind , fervently insistent on their defense as minorities and accusing any critic of intolerance , while dispatching any analysis or scrutiny for the 1400 years of homicide by doctrine , the idiocy of hisbah for its tyranny by majority , for its doctrinal terrorism by minority , as the facade of taqiyya, tawriya, kitman and muruna are surreptitiously orchestrated overtly before blind fools .

My issue is not with humanism but rather with the blatant ignorance upon which many of its proponents base decisions and policy objectives .

** Indiscriminate Accusatives **



Wickerthing said:


> But I was talking about the manipulation by a foreign adversary of long standing of our electoral process through the use of social media and only they know if that manipulation included direct physical changes to voting machines, voter registration lists etc.  I guess we'll find out later especially in light of the fact that this current administration has no sense of urgency and hasn't completely accepted that it was Russia that was the culprit.


Now that public advertisement and political contributions have been ruled out as legal violations that could have occurred and the actions of news outlets and the always suspect social media are as yet unfounded as legal violations , are you actually implying that the russians manipulated voting machines , registration lists , etc. ? 

** What Is Rhetoric **



Wickerthing said:


> *Your view of the world seems to have a very negative base especially when it comes to social justice.*  I believe it isn't as predetermined as you think nor is it foolish as you put it to believe that social change is possible and should be pursued.


Within the context of entitlements to fellow citizens with who a social civil contract is shared , my alliances begin with non aggression principles and note , in general , that violence ( illegitimate aggression ) is not always easily defined .

In political philosophy , a libertarian ethic is any article of law phrased as a proscription of government action , and it creates negative liberties as freedoms to act without interference from government , where such laws establish negative wrights . 

An antithesis of libertarian ethic is authoritarian , which is any article of law phrased as a prescription for government action ; and , authoritarianism may create negative liberties as freedoms to act without interference from other private individuals ; alternatively , authoritarianism may create positive liberties as assertive actions of government to provide more resources to individuals than they originally possess , which must be taken from other private individuals , and such laws are  termed positive wrights .

According to non aggression principles , one is entitled to self defense against illegitimate threats or actions which violate ones self ownership ( life , free roam , free association ) or their self determination ( private property ) . 

My considerations are mostly aligned negative liberties and the mean of individualism *i and , unlike libertarian anarchists who assert the extreme of individualism ( I ) without a national allegiance , my views expect a necessity for national allegiance and , thus to a degree , collectivism which regards policies from the american school of economics as credible .

As negative liberties establish individualism ( I ) and positive liberties establish collectivism ( C ) , or sometimes termed statism ( S ) , the aesthetic means of *i and *c are generally a utilitarian ethic .

My primary objective as of late is to reprove intellectual buffoonery that is intrinsic to the liberal versus conservative paradigm and thereby establish terms and ethics by which one may reasonably address and evaluate public policy .

Thus , my understanding of your accusation is that it is unfounded and based upon limited information .

** Two Edge Swords **



Wickerthing said:


> Of course there are forces born of greed and selfishness standing in the way of making changes but that's always been the case and many indignities and social ills have been at least dealt a blow or two by the humanitarian fools like myself.  So you can keep your philosophy of hopelessness and finality and I'll keep the faith that it is those of us who recognize the difficulty of addressing social problems as they arise but believe in a society in which those forces of evil will be defeated through sheer aggressive determination.  I believe that as imperfect as our political system is, it will be the left that will snuff out the greed and disdain for the working man that defines the right.


As for humanitarianism , those that seem to espouse it should understand a life saving rule which is do not jump in to save a frantic drowning victim without a proper flotation device or training .

If as an individual you wish to give personal resources to enrich others , that is distinctly different from you giving away the resources of other individuals to satisfy your own perceptions of virtue .

And when it comes to preserving the liberty of self ownership and self determination of others , entreating a voting majority of those who would subdue it is a contradiction in goals .


----------



## sealybobo (Jun 25, 2018)

Correll said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Again:
> ...



Trump asked Michigan, WI & PA what they had to lose by voting for him.  How about Harley Davidson?

Harley-Davidson says it plans to move production of motorcycles it sells in Europe overseas in response to growing trade friction between the United States and Europe.

European officials last week imposed stiff tariffs on a wide range of U.S.-made goods sold within the European Union. The response came to President Trump's recent decision to slap tariffs on European imports.

In a Securities and Exchange Commission filing Monday, Harley-Davidson said the tariffs imposed by the EU "would have an immediate and lasting detrimental impact to its business in the region."

The company reported $5.65 billion in revenues last year and Europe is its largest overseas market, with almost 40,000 customers buying motorcycles there in 2017.

The European tariffs have jumped from 6 percent to 31 percent, the company said. That increase will add on average $2,200 to the cost of each motorcycle sold in the EU, and would cost the company $90 million to $100 million a year, the filing said.

"Increasing international production to alleviate the EU tariff burden is not the company's preference, but represents the only sustainable option to make its motorcycles accessible to customers in the EU and maintain a viable business in Europe," the filing said.

The company did not say where production would be shifted, or how many jobs might be affected, but said the move would take nine to 18 months to complete.

It also did not say which U.S. factories would be affected. The company's U.S. factories are in York, Pa.; Kansas City, Mo., and Menomonee Falls, Wis.


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## Sahba (Jun 25, 2018)

The tariffs on steel are hurting me big time as my new home is being fabricated out of post & beam / steel... ouch! as my builder is buying by the ton.  None the less, I do realize the long term & national security rational behind it.


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## Bush92 (Jun 25, 2018)

Trump stands for the American worker.


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## easyt65 (Jun 25, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



'MAGA'.....not 'MMGA', 'WPGA', 'WWGA'...  


*Despite all of your whining, crying, and fear-mongering,* *thanks to President Trump* we have:

The best economy in decades...even in Michigan, Wi, and Pa

The lowest unemployment in decades

More full-time jobs, raises, and bonuses

Fewer Americans enrolled in Welfare, Unemployment, and Food Stamps

A record stock market

Home values have increased

Trump's job approval rating is higher than Obama's and Reagan's

....and we do NOT have for a President a proven felon who compromised national security for her own benefit, Obstructed justice, lied to the FBI, was under 2 (TWO) FBI investigations just  days before the election for crimes she DID commit (to include Espionage), rigged primaries, cheated in debates, engaged in election fraud during the primaries, violated Election Campaign laws, broke Campaign Finance Laws, still failed to win her party's nomination, treasonously collaborated with and paid foreign spies and Russians for a debunked / unproven document she illegally used in a US election and which she gave to the FBI who helped her and Obama orchestrate a Conspiracy  designed to keep the opposing political party's candidate from winning and to commit treason by removing the newly elected President from office if he should win......


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## easyt65 (Jun 25, 2018)

Sahba said:


> The tariffs on steel are hurting me big time as my new home is being fabricated out of post & beam / steel... ouch! as my builder is buying by the ton.  None the less, I do realize the long term & national security rational behind it.


Thank you for your intelligence, your understanding, and willingness to see this through for the good of the country long term. God bless you and your new home.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 25, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Trump stands for the American worker


And bends over for Putin.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 25, 2018)

ChrisL said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


And how, exactly, do you expect these tariffs to benefit us?


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## ABikerSailor (Jun 25, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Trump stands for the American worker
> ...



He stands for the American worker only so they can blow him.

Bending over for Putin?  That's Trump's signature move for selling out the US.


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## Bush92 (Jun 25, 2018)

Sahba said:


> The tariffs on steel are hurting me big time as my new home is being fabricated out of post & beam / steel... ouch! as my builder is buying by the ton.  None the less, I do realize the long term & national security rational behind it.


God bless your patriotism!


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## Bush92 (Jun 25, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


Producing steel in the United States export...instead of exporting our jobs.


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## Vandalshandle (Jun 25, 2018)

If, the word, "tariff", did not exist, and the words, "consumer tax" was used instead, Trumpettes would never tolerate Trump's trade war.


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## ABikerSailor (Jun 25, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



Ask Harley Davidson and Carrier how that is working out for us.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 25, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


Ah yes, subsidized by the consumers.of course, every extra artificial dollar now spent on steel will not be spent somewhere else, and....

Oh fuck it, neither you nor Trump care what economists say. This is just a dick swinging contest.


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## sealybobo (Jun 25, 2018)

easyt65 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



We already had all these things before he because President.


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## sealybobo (Jun 25, 2018)

easyt65 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


Hey look it's you


----------



## easyt65 (Jun 25, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> And bends over for Putin.



I know you THIINK you are being funny...but all you are doing is showing your ignorance.

*QUESTION:*
What do you get when you cross a Democrat with a common goldfish, a South Country Cheviot ram, and an _Eclectus_ (parrot)?

*ANSWER:*
You get the *PERFECT* Democratic Party Snowflake Voter.
- It has the extremely short-term memory of a goldfish, the passive easily manipulated and guided demeanor of a sheep, and the almost unparalleled ability to repeat ('parrot') whatever you want it to say.

Bwuhahahaha....   


Don't laugh - Liberal scientists have already produced millions of these.

After all, only one of these could believe and parrot the BS fed to them about Trump when it has been proven there was never any Illegal Russian Collusion between Trump and the Russians, proven by the inability to find even the slightest bit of evidence to support this known lie after 2 years of investigations....when no evidence of a crime ever committed worthy of being investigated at all has been found involving the President...and despite the only evidence of crimes having been committed  shows it has been the DEMOCRATS who have perpetrated any and all crimes:
- Obstruction, Perjury, Lying to the FBI, Mishandling classified, Espionage, Conspiracy, Sedition, and even Treason...

Only one of these rare breeds could look at the fact that only one of the two 2016 Presidential candidates took MILLIONS of dollars (Rubles) directly from the Russian KGB Bank...only persons directly linked to ONE of these two candidates ever directly met with Russian leader Vladimir Putin himself and was also paid large sums of money directly from the Russian KGB Bank - *Hillary and Bill Clinton*....and still believe the un-supported BS claim by Trump-Hating Liberal extremists that TRUMP, not Hillary, was 'in-bed' with the Russians.

Only one of these new rare species of snowflakes could read/hear how a third (1/3) of the Board of Directors for the company owned by only ONE of these 2016 Presidential candidates' campaign managers consisted of prominent Russian businessmen who had direct connections to the Kremlin and Putin himself AND received thousands of un-reported shares of Russian stock - Hillary Clinton's Campaign Manager John Podesta - yet still believed and parrots the BS narrative about how TRUMP, not Hillary, illegally colluded with Russia.
-- 'Fat' Tony Podesta, John's brother,  actually worked for BOTH the KGB Bank AND the Russian Intel Agency at the time....yet no one on the left of in the left-supporting med8ia thought this was important enough to highlight and / or investigate.

Only one of these rare breed of snowflakes would see the evidence that only ONE of these candidates collaborated with / paid foreign spies working with Russians to obtain a Russian propaganda-filled debunked document that was used illegally against the other candidate in their US election AND was handed over to a criminal FBI that illegally used the document to engage / begin a criminal Conspiracy against  the eventual President that would make Watergate look like a 'crime' consisting of a little brother stealing and reading his older sister's diary....Again, Hillary Clinton....yet STILL buy the BS lies - without a shred of supporting evidence - that it was Trump who was 'in bed' with the Russians.


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## easyt65 (Jun 25, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> easyt65 said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


Every day...every hour...almost every minute, a snowflake somewhere, faced with undeniable fact supported by evidence, left unarmed and outmatched in a battle of Intelligence in a debate, turns to insults, attacks, and accuses others of doing what  THEY have been proven to have done and of being who they have proven thet are.....

It's truly  sad....especially as often as it happens.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 25, 2018)

easyt65 said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > And bends over for Putin.
> ...


Well, there's another idiotic easyt65 word salad that not even your mommy is going to read.


----------



## easyt65 (Jun 25, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> We already had all these things before he because President.



When faced with such EASILY disproved noxious horseshit and obvious insanity, it is best to simply walk away... Have a nice day, snowflake.


----------



## easyt65 (Jun 25, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Well, there's another idiotic easyt65 word salad that not even your mommy is going to read.


FFI, my bad - I am sorry. I forgot who my target audience was. I will try to keep my next / future responses to you down to a maximum of 10 words, all 1-syllabel words, and as many grunts as possible so it will be easier for you to understand.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 25, 2018)

easyt65 said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Well, there's another idiotic easyt65 word salad that not even your mommy is going to read.
> ...


Nobody reads your copypasta masturbations. Nobody.


----------



## easyt65 (Jun 25, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> easyt65 said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


Yeah, you dumb, no like a lot of words Uh...me got it. 

(crap...more than 10 words. Sorry, FFI...)


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 25, 2018)

easyt65 said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > easyt65 said:
> ...


Yeah, and you are so smart. That must be why none of your claims or predictions actually ever happen.


----------



## Cellblock2429 (Jun 25, 2018)

BULLDOG said:


> Great. We've been needing a good trade war. MAGA!!!!
> View attachment 179718


/——/ You incompetent boobs had it your way for decades and only screwed thing royally. Now get out of the way and let President Trump fix things.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 25, 2018)

Cellblock2429 said:


> You incompetent boobs had it your way for decades and only screwed thing royally.


Yeah, being the strogest economy in the world for decades has really sucked!


----------



## easyt65 (Jun 25, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Yeah, and you are so smart. That must be why none of your claims or predictions actually ever happen.


I am trying not to make any predictions, as doing so often relies on emotion, which usually results in opinions, insults, and name-calling. I like to post facts, links, and evidence instead. It drives the snowflakes nuts and forces them to resort to insults, name-calling, and ridiculous opinions. Take you for example....


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 25, 2018)

easyt65 said:


> I am trying not to make any predictions


Of course, you try and fail on a daily basis.

Signed, 

Hillary Clinton


----------



## easyt65 (Jun 25, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Yeah, being the strogest economy in the world for decades has really sucked!








Poor snowflake....hasn't seen the sun for 10 years and having to rely on what he is told by liberals. 

You should REALLY conduct your own personal 'cranal-anal-ectomy' and check things out for yourself rather than keep listening to and parroting liberals.


----------



## easyt65 (Jun 25, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Hillary Clinton


I just point out the facts of how Hillary Clinton broke many laws, how the FBI publicly declared she did, how the FBI Director said she did...and provide all the undeniable evidence to support those facts....which drives snowflakes like you wild. lol


----------



## Cellblock2429 (Jun 25, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> > You incompetent boobs had it your way for decades and only screwed thing royally.
> ...


/——/ wait, you libs said the US economy lagged behind industrial countries. You claimed  2 1/2 % GDP was the new norm. Now you claiming we’re the strongest. Were you lying then or are you lying now?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 25, 2018)

easyt65 said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, being the strogest economy in the world for decades has really sucked!
> ...


Wow, somehow you inane posts are just as devoid of content when they have 30 words as when they have 3000...that's quite a feat,you crybaby ...


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 25, 2018)

Cellblock2429 said:


> wait, you libs said the US economy lagged behind industrial countries


Huh? "You libs"....what are you , 6 years old? Damn this is like talking to a child....


----------



## sealybobo (Jun 25, 2018)

easyt65 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > easyt65 said:
> ...



That's because you are just repeating Trump's lies.  Let me give you an example.  Before Trump was POTUS, the unemployment number was fake.  Once he took office he said, "the numbers are real now".

You're a loser, and Trump appeals to losers.  I get it.  Either that or your rich and trying to con us middle class people.  Is that it?  Then you're a loser.  A loser or a liar.  Pick one.


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## sealybobo (Jun 25, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> easyt65 said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...



He is a dumb bastard isn't he?


----------



## cnm (Jun 25, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Trump stands for the American worker.


And against the American soy and sorghum farmer.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 25, 2018)

cnm said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Trump stands for the American worker.
> ...



Any economist worth his salt knows that tariffs are inflationary and that it hurts the working man/woman the hardest because, as in the case of china, cheap goods that the working folks count on will rise in price across the board. Just as the Tax giveaway to himself will be borne by the poor and working class through cuts to the programs they depend on to keep their heads above water.  It's already well underway with cuts to food stamps, propose soc sec cuts, medicare/medicaid and expansion etc.  Those who thought the tax bill would be helpful are in for a rude awakening.


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## Bush92 (Jun 25, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> cnm said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...


These are the same idiots that supported NAFTA as well as exporting job to China as well. These economists do not understand that what is good for Wall Street...isn’t always good for Main Street.


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## ABikerSailor (Jun 25, 2018)

Know another industry that is getting hit hard right now?  Recycling.  There are lots of waste recycle plants that send their material to China to be repurposed.

Now?  China isn't taking as much as they used to (some reports say sales are down 60 percent), and if they do, it's got to be a lot cleaner than it used to be. 

U.S. Recycling Woes Pile Up as China Escalates Ban

*Tens of thousands of tons of recyclables have been diverted to U.S. landfills in recent months as the reality of China’s new ban on certain types of imported waste takes hold.


The ban, which went into effect Jan. 1, covers imports of 24 types of solid waste, including unsorted paper and the difficult-to-recycle types of plastic, including polyethylene terephthalate (PET), commonly used in plastic bottles.


And China’s import restrictions become even tighter March 1, increasing the sense of urgency U.S. recyclers feel to find new outlets for their products. At the same time, some industry officials say the situation could be a blessing in disguise if it eventually prods the U.S. toward processing more of its own recycling.


“What we’re seeing now is really unprecedented,” said Julie Miller, a spokeswoman for the Oregon Department of Environmental Quality (*DEQ).


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## Wickerthing (Jun 25, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > cnm said:
> ...



Trump stands for Trump.  For you to believe he actually cares about the middle class tells me why you were dumb enough to vote for that tool.


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## Bush92 (Jun 25, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


He stands for communities hurt by globalization.
Is Wal-Mart Good for America?


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## basquebromance (Jun 25, 2018)

Trump is not smart.

he doesn't understand the nuances of policy.

he's been bankrupt 6 times.

he's literally giving you the middle finger with an incoherent trade policy.


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## Bush92 (Jun 25, 2018)

Trump stands for forgotten worker. Do plant closures hurt...hell yes...
Company Towns, After The Company Leaves Town


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 25, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> These are the same idiots that supported NAFTA


More Republicans than Democrats supported NAFTA, professor:

History lesson: More Republicans than Democrats supported NAFTA


Do you just kind of say whatever sounds good, and then hope nobody will check?


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## Bush92 (Jun 25, 2018)

Trump stands for working class
What Happens When Factories Close and Leave Ghost Towns in Their Wake - CityLab


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## Bush92 (Jun 25, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > These are the same idiots that supported NAFTA
> ...


Who gives a fuck...Trump is POTUS now.


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## Bush92 (Jun 25, 2018)

Massive job losses due to unfair trade and foreign tariffs.
The U.S. has lost 5 million manufacturing jobs since 2000


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## cnm (Jun 25, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Trump stands for working class


That's why he has his products made in China and Mexico, etc.


----------



## cnm (Jun 25, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> The U.S. has lost 5 million manufacturing jobs since 2000


To China and Mexico? Whoever would have thought?


----------



## Bush92 (Jun 25, 2018)

cnm said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Trump stands for working class
> ...


That’s why he won Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, West Virginia and yes Iowa.


----------



## Bush92 (Jun 25, 2018)

cnm said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > The U.S. has lost 5 million manufacturing jobs since 2000
> ...


Where the fuck is supposed to...they got all our manufacturing jobs. Duh.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 25, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Who gives a fuck...T


Obviously you....you literally just brought it up...you are one odd little man, indeed....


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 25, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> That’s why he won Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, West Virginia and yes Iowa.


As 8t turns out, some people got fooled.


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## Bush92 (Jun 25, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Who gives a fuck...T
> ...


Times change...Democrats have left that party to vote Trump. DNC sacrificed working class whites for BLM, gay marriage, and illegals.


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## Bush92 (Jun 25, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > That’s why he won Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, West Virginia and yes Iowa.
> ...


Tell them that. He’s still popular in the areas hurt by unfair trade.


----------



## ABikerSailor (Jun 25, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> cnm said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...



If he keeps screwing with the tariffs and more manufacturers send jobs overseas, he's gonna lose all those states in 2020. 

That is................if he runs again.  I kinda doubt that he will, because he doesn't really appear to want to do the job, just wrap himself up in the trappings of office.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 25, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Times change


How so? 
Senate Republicans call on Trump to preserve NAFTA


See, you just did it again. You make stuff up, and then it immediately leaps from your fingers with abandon.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 25, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Tell them that.


Oh, I'm trying. They'll eventually figure it out themselves.


----------



## Bush92 (Jun 25, 2018)

ABikerSailor said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > cnm said:
> ...


Why? Jobs will come back because US manufacturing that left...will find it cheaper to build products here if they want to access U.S. market.


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## Bush92 (Jun 25, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Tell them that.
> ...


Trump will win all of them again in 2020.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 25, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...


Hmm, we'll see. A few of them were extremely close, and he may not have the full force of the Russian propaganda machine behind him this time.


----------



## BULLDOG (Jun 25, 2018)

Cellblock2429 said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> > Great. We've been needing a good trade war. MAGA!!!!
> ...



You mean like he fixed the Harley manufacturing plants, or the few coal jobs? Harley is leaving the US, and because of gutting the EPA and tax breaks for corporations, coal companies are better off, but coal workers haven't seen the return of all those jobs.


----------



## Wickerthing (Jun 25, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Trump stands for forgotten worker. Do plant closures hurt...hell yes...
> Company Towns, After The Company Leaves Town



In his entire miserable life he has never demonstrated that he cares for anyone or anything but himself.  It's naive folks like you that has cursed America with this madman.


----------



## Wickerthing (Jun 25, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...




Are you really that clueless?  Walmart?  Working folks shop there because Walmart scans the planet for cheap goods.  Places like China.  His moronic trade wars will cut deep into those things working people care about.  All to feed his sick ego.  I'll bet you even think the Tax (reform) was aimed at the middle class, right?  LOL


----------



## Dragonlady (Jun 25, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > cnm said:
> ...



I love how every right wing idiot, who hasn’t the vaguest clue of how the economy works are now all rah rah rah for tariffs. Sadly, your idiot Oresident isn’t any better informed than you are. 

Globalism and free trade made America the richest country in the world. If your trading partners are screwing you over, they’re doing a really poor job of it. 

The World Trade Organization, which Trump decries as “unfair” was established and set up by the USA in accordance with American trade policies. I doubt Trump knows that either since he doesn’t read anything and has no idea of history at all. 

 Tariffs are taxes that are passed on to consumers. The tariffs you’re cheering are going to raise prices on American made cars, motorcycles, canned goods, household appliances and tools - anything containing steel or aluminum. 

They’ll raise prices paid by American consumers on clothing, electronics, and household goods manufactured in China. 

Trump could have run a “Buy American” campaign, with ads touting the benefits of buying products made at home, keeping their dollars at home and providing employment to their neighbours.

Last but not least, by slapping tariffs on certain products, and not others, Trump is picking winners and losers in the economy. Trump is trying to kick start jobs in the steel industry by slapping tariffs on steel and aluminum, 

It is estimated that 30,000 jobs will be created in the steel industry. This would be wonderful news if those 30,000 steel production jobs didn’t come at the expense of 150,000 jobs lost in manufacturing due to the higher steel and aluminum costs. Harley Davidson is the first big exporter to be forced offshore by Trump’s tariffs but they won’t be the last. 

Trump’s economic plan seems to be trying to move the USA backwards, not ahead. He’s trying to force consumers to buy electricity from coal fired electrical plants. It’s more expensive than power derived from natural gas fired plants, and increases pollution. 

Wouldn’t it make more sense to retrain coal miners to do some of the 6 million jobs that remain unfilled because US workers lack the skills to do them?


----------



## Wickerthing (Jun 25, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...




Yeah, I had this discussion with another Trumper who said it won't have that much of an effect on prices.  I said, look around your house and see all the products you buy that contain steel or aluminum.  Then tell me how little the effect on the middle class will be.  And I'm sure Trump is just getting started on his know nothing tour of our economy and by extension, our lives.  Next will be fabrics, foods not grown here, Plastic, electronics etc etc.  That bone we were thrown under so-called tax reform will be gone in no time and at least that same amount will be lost in future moronic tariffs.  And, because the vast bulk of money from that stupid tax giveaway to himself will have to be made up, it will be done on the backs of the working poor, elderly, disabled etc. It's already well under way.  All the young folks on here who worship the orange god, will find out how much he cares about them when they're ready to retire or when they are disabled or when they have kids and see healthcare costs zoom out of sight.  It will be at that point that they'll become smart enough to become Democrats.


----------



## Bush92 (Jun 25, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...


Think of the taxes factory workers and steel workers pay? I can tell you about crumbling schools in Rust Belt. Trump is on right track.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 25, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...


And the industries this hurts -- which is pretty much all the rest -- will generate less tax revenue.

I don't think you're getting this.


----------



## Bush92 (Jun 25, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


Wal-Mart pushed a race to the bottom and US jobs to China. Wal-Mart is un-American. Fuck China...they are putting the profits they make in our market into their military. Sure...let them build a military so they can kill American service men and women when the war comes.


----------



## Dragonlady (Jun 25, 2018)

In retaliation for Trump’s tariffs and his trashing of NAFTA, Mexico is negotiating an agreement to buy their wheat, corn, rice and soy beans from Argentina. They’re also negotiating with the EU and they’re a party to TPP. 

Canada has already signed a big trade deal with the EU, as well as the TPP and I’m seeing more produce from South America and even South Africa in my grocery store. 

Trump called Justin Trudeau “weak” and the following Monday the House of Commons unanimously commended Trudeau for standing up to Trump and gave him their unconditional support in fighting for Canada’s interests. 

Canadians don’t take well to being bullied.


----------



## Bush92 (Jun 25, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


Our biggest industry at one time was manufacturing. We don’t have that anymore. So you hate America I see.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 25, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...


So you lick your own butthole,I see.

Come on man, ya sound stupid.


----------



## Bush92 (Jun 25, 2018)

When U.S. steel is produced here and is competitive with Asian steel...who the fuck are other industries going to buy from? They going pay to ship it from China...or send it by train from Cleveland?


----------



## Bush92 (Jun 25, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> In retaliation for Trump’s tariffs and his trashing of NAFTA, Mexico is negotiating an agreement to buy their wheat, corn, rice and soy beans from Argentina. They’re also negotiating with the EU and they’re a party to TPP.
> 
> Canada has already signed a big trade deal with the EU, as well as the TPP and I’m seeing more produce from South America and even South Africa in my grocery store.
> 
> ...


Whoopee. They won’t like to pay for expensive European Ag products...too many socialist rules and regulations there. Mexico and South America will continue to buy U.S. grain...they can’t feed their fucking own people.We got them by the short hairs.


----------



## Dragonlady (Jun 25, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...



China isn’t putting money into their military. They’re putting it into infrastructure projects around the world. Their buying roads, ports, and trade routes in Africa, South America and Asia to create trade routes connecting China to its trading partners. 

One Belt One Road Initiative - Wikipedia

As for Walmart, if you are shopping at Walmart, you’re as much to blame as they are.


----------



## Bush92 (Jun 25, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!!!


----------



## Bush92 (Jun 25, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


The Diplomat
China is building the shit out of its military. They are a threat.


----------



## Dragonlady (Jun 25, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > In retaliation for Trump’s tariffs and his trashing of NAFTA, Mexico is negotiating an agreement to buy their wheat, corn, rice and soy beans from Argentina. They’re also negotiating with the EU and they’re a party to TPP.
> ...



No you don’t. As for the European Ag products, we have many of the same rules here. Monsanto is pure evil and many of your pesticides are banned here as are the growth hormones in your beef. Genetic modified foods are required to be labelled.

We LOVE the Euro Agro rules.


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## Bush92 (Jun 25, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...


Sure you do socialist.


----------



## Bush92 (Jun 25, 2018)

It’s real basic: Why should other nations be allowed to put outrageous tariffs on US imports...and we don’t put any on them? How moronic are you people? I don’t think the United States should sit back and get dry fucked by the Chinese.


----------



## BluesLegend (Jun 25, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...



Trump's steel tariffs just scored a $5 billion dollar win, the UK folded like a cheap lawn chair and is reopening a USA steel plant, bringing 300 USA steel jobs back, and investing $5 billion dollars in the USA


----------



## Dragonlady (Jun 25, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > Bush92 said:
> ...



While I thank you for that information, China isn’t a threat. 

Right wingers see everything as a threat. I’ve never seen such a frightened bunch in my life. The US is a far bigger threat to world peace than China. And China doesn’t need to attack the US, it just needs to wait another couple of years and your economy is going to go into serious decline because of Trumps policies. 

If you had a brain, you’d be more worried about the Chinese buying up your corporations than a military attack.   Or the combined effect of the tax cuts and exploding deficit.

China is paying for their military build up. The USA is putting their military build up on the credit card and interest rates are rising.


----------



## Dragonlady (Jun 25, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...



300 jobs. Big whoop. Picking up the peanuts while being trampled by the elephants.

You asked where I got my information on American millionaires. It’s from a REAL source, not some right winger’s blog.

1,700 People in America Are Becoming Millionaires Every Day


----------



## Dale Smith (Jun 25, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...



Commit this to memory...I totally agree with you about Monsanto and the Bushpuppet, Hildebeast and Barrypuppet were the backpocket puppets of this criminal cabal. The Clinton crime family opened up the patent office to China in exchange for cash (reference Chinagate) and Bushpuppet gave them favorite nation status. China was also given a deep sea water port in California and under the Costco agreement, only one out of eight ships are subject to search. USA.INC has been the biggest terrorist threat on the planet since WWII and the formation of the CIA after the OSS was transformed and Nazis were brought into the intelligence agency under the authority of Truman after WWII....but America has been sold out...at least it's serfs have been. Our sweat equity has moved this fiat currency and we have financed our own demise while the repubs and dems (controlled by the central bank) have feathered their nests along with a safe place to land.

You are not totally asleep but far from being "awake".


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## Wickerthing (Jun 25, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> When U.S. steel is produced here and is competitive with Asian steel...who the fuck are other industries going to buy from? They going pay to ship it from China...or send it by train from Cleveland?



Man, you're thick.  Trump has no fuckin' idea what he's doing.  Trade wars were the main cause of the great depression.  NOBODY wins in these wars.  Consumers lose big time.  I heard an econ. Professor liken what he's doing to cutting off your feet because you want to lose weight.  Trump doesn't see beyond his own carp lips.  All bluster and no brains.  You'll see.  And you won't have to be very patient because prices on everything will rise soon.  This is madness from a madman.


----------



## Wickerthing (Jun 25, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> When U.S. steel is produced here and is competitive with Asian steel...who the fuck are other industries going to buy from? They going pay to ship it from China...or send it by train from Cleveland?




In any case, we will pay more and costs on everything related to whatever products with attached tariffs will rise.  That's me and you.  Trump doesn't give a shit if working folks get stiffed.  Just so long as he gets to rant against every fuckin body.   He's a mean spirited, moron and he's destroying the fabric of America and everything we've held dear.  And you think that's just wonderful.  This country should be renamed Moronica, land of Adolf Trump.


----------



## Dragonlady (Jun 25, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> When U.S. steel is produced here and is competitive with Asian steel...who the fuck are other industries going to buy from? They going pay to ship it from China...or send it by train from Cleveland?



For every job you gain in steel manufacturing, you’re losing 5 jobs in manufacturing. That doesn’t seem very smart to me. 

The BEST thing Trump can do to grow the economy is to provide stability in governance. Without stability in markets and in government trade policies, business leaders can’t plan or even begin to develop market.

Harley had planned to expand in the US, but the combination of tariffs on steel and the retaliatory tariffs from the EU was too much for them. Their main competition are the bikes coming out of Japan. Harleys are already highest priced production motorcycles in the market. The company is going to eat the EU tariffs to the tune of $90,000,000 to try to remain competitive. 

The Chinese and the EU have been very specific in their retaliatory tariffs. Harley was targeted to cause harm in Paul Ryan’s State. Kentucky Bourbon from McConnell’s state, and the Chinese picked soy beans because Midwestern farmers voted overwhelmingly for Trump. 

Farmers are already losing. China has ordered farmers to grow more soy beans. Mexico will get their soy from Argentina. One farmer said his farm has lost $200,000 in value since Trump started his trade war.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 26, 2018)

Bush92 said:


> who the fuck are other industries going to buy from?


, Everyone,  but less of it.


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## Cellblock2429 (Jun 26, 2018)

BULLDOG said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> > BULLDOG said:
> ...


/——/ Harley isn’t leaving the US, they are opening a plant in EU to sell bikes to them. They will still be manufacturing in the US you blithering idiot.


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## BULLDOG (Jun 26, 2018)

Cellblock2429 said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> > Cellblock2429 said:
> ...



Bikes sold in the EU have always been built here.  Those jobs will go away. You don't get that?


----------



## Correll (Jun 26, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...





There is a serious internal contradiction in this.



People opposed to Trump doing this, have been denying that Trade Deficits/surpluses matter, or that significant jobs can be brought back.


So, when you point out that our trading partners are reacting strongly, you are supporting the idea that trade balance DOES matter, or at least our trading partners think so,


and when you point out to possible job losses due to trade barriers, you support the idea that we have lost jobs to such trade barrier to our trading partners markets.



Can you see that?


----------



## sealybobo (Jun 26, 2018)

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


I can see what trumps doing isn’t working. Can you see that? Now sell me on why this will be good in the long run


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## Cellblock2429 (Jun 26, 2018)

BULLDOG said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> > BULLDOG said:
> ...


/——/ Yeah I get that but numbnuts said the company is moving to Europe. They aren’t. You don’t get that?


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## BULLDOG (Jun 26, 2018)

Cellblock2429 said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> > Cellblock2429 said:
> ...



Lots of the jobs are, Thanks Trump.


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## Cellblock2429 (Jun 26, 2018)

BULLDOG said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> > BULLDOG said:
> ...


/——-/ you’re welcome. Trump is protecting US interests for the first time. Only libtards think policies should be one size fits all.


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## BULLDOG (Jun 26, 2018)

Cellblock2429 said:


> BULLDOG said:
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The Harley employees whose jobs are leaving the country might not agree with you.


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## Correll (Jun 26, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
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Seems early to pass judgment. 


Riddle me this, if trade balance doesn't matter, than why are our trading partners upset that Trump is trying to change it, and why do you post potential job losses as evidence of failure?


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## Cellblock2429 (Jun 26, 2018)

BULLDOG said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
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> > BULLDOG said:
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/----/ Yes, it's tough that they will lose their jobs but they MIGHT agree Trump is doing a better job than Obozo. Besides it was HD's decision, not Trumps.:
Manufacturers Are Hiring, and Hiring
*Over the past year, according to today's employment report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the sector has added 222,000 jobs.*
Still, that's higher than manufacturing's 8.5 percent share of total nonfarm payroll employment. *The manufacturing sector is adding jobs at a faster pace than the rest of the economy, which hasn't happened much over the past half century.* Manufacturing jobs pay better than other jobs ($900.55 in average weekly earnings for production and non-supervisory employees in February, versus $757.12 for the private sector as a whole). They also tend to have multiplier effects that most service jobs don't, creating other jobs and income in their wake. So a booming manufacturing sector is a very good thing.


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## BULLDOG (Jun 26, 2018)

Cellblock2429 said:


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Stay here and lose millions because of Trump's crap or go where he can;t cost them so much money. Sure, some decision.


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## Cellblock2429 (Jun 26, 2018)

BULLDOG said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
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> > BULLDOG said:
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/----/ What crap? Standing up for America? You mean that crap?
And where is your Fake Outrage towards the EU for increasing the tariffs?
 The motorcycle maker said the European Union tariffs on the company’s motorcycles increased to 31% from 6%, and will increase the cost of the the average motorcycle to the EU for the U.S. by about $2,200. Despite the tariffs the company said that it would not raise prices.


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## Correll (Jun 26, 2018)

Cellblock2429 said:


> BULLDOG said:
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THAT is very encouraging. Very much so.


I look forward to seeing where and to what this additional production is going.


Are they increasing their share of the US market? Or increasing exports? Both? Neither?


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## BULLDOG (Jun 26, 2018)

Cellblock2429 said:


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I wonder why they increased their tariffs? I thought China was hurting us. Trump is trying to help China while pissing off our allies. What a goober.


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## Correll (Jun 26, 2018)

Cellblock2429 said:


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I've commented on this before.


There is a strange disconnect in the argument AGAINST Trump on Trade.



They claim that Trade Balance doesn't matter, 


yet support our trading partners attempts to prevent changing the trade balance. Which they claim does not matter.



THey dismiss concerns about job loss due to globalization, yet support our trading partners attempt to hold on to THEIR manufacturing jobs.


ect ect ect.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 26, 2018)

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
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You've got to be joking, right?


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## Cellblock2429 (Jun 26, 2018)

BULLDOG said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
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/----/ Funny stuff since democRATs were pressuring Trump to impose steel tariffs in 2017:
Democrats Pressure Trump to Fulfill Promise to Impose Steel Tariffs
*Democrats Pressure Trump to Fulfill Promise to Impose Steel Tariffs*
*
Oct. 26, 2017
*WASHINGTON — Frustration over President Trump’s delay in imposing the stiff tariffs he has promised on imports of foreign steel and aluminum is morphing into a fight over two of Mr. Trump’s trade policy nominees.


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## BluesLegend (Jun 26, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> 300 jobs. Big whoop. Picking up the peanuts while being trampled by the elephants.



^^^ typical sour puss liberal thinks 300 good paying jobs for the middle class isn't important. Let me guess you have some government job paid for by the taxpayers?


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## Dragonlady (Jun 26, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > 300 jobs. Big whoop. Picking up the peanuts while being trampled by the elephants.
> ...



So you consider the loss of 1500 good paying middle class jobs in manufacturing a reasonable price to pay for those 300 steel mill jobs. That’s a loss of 1200 good paying middle class jobs.

Like I said, picking up the peanuts while being trampled by the elephants.


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## Correll (Jun 26, 2018)

BULLDOG said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
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They increased their tariffs, because they believe that Trade Deficits and Surpluses matter.


And Trump is moving on Europe first, because of China's successful strategy of using the threat of nuclear weapons for diplomatic advantage. 


IMO, Trump was wrong to fall for it, but fall for it he did.


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## Correll (Jun 26, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
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Excellent filibustering. You managed to convey disagreement, but without saying any substantial that a neutral reader could see was obvious bullshit. 


For example, if you claimed that our trade partners are NOT upset that Trump is trying to bring the jobs back, any sane reader would be able to realize that that was nonsense, that our trading partners ARE upset and trying to hold on to those jobs.



You are correct to avoid making any actual points. Your side's position in this is indefensible.


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## sealybobo (Jun 26, 2018)

Correll said:


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Seems too early to pass judgement?  Tell that to the Trumpbots who claim Trump has made America great again for the middle class.  

Trade balance matters.  China watches way more American movies than we watch Chinese movies.  Are you ready to start watching Godzilla and Jackie Chan movies? 

Riddle me this.  How come Trumps tariffs are sending Harley Davidson overseas?  Not bringing companies back home.  Or are you hoping that companies that want to sell to America will then be forced to move to America?  So what European company is moving into the abandoned Harley plants?


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## sealybobo (Jun 26, 2018)

Cellblock2429 said:


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Classic Republicans blaming Democrats for what Republicans do.  Classic!


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## DOTR (Jun 26, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> So much for the free market conservatives.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com



   Who was it claimed to be a free market conservative?


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## DOTR (Jun 26, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> 
> Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs Thursday over objections from advisers and Republicans






basquebromance said:


> he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> 
> Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs Thursday over objections from advisers and Republicans


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## Golfing Gator (Jun 26, 2018)

Cellblock2429 said:


> BULLDOG said:
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The EU increased their tariffs in reaction to us increasing ours first, it was the only rational move for them.  

If someone punches you, what is your reaction...for most it is to punch back 


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


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## LordBrownTrout (Jun 26, 2018)

usmbguest5318 said:


> > President Trump announces new tariffs: 25% for steel, 10% for aluminum
> 
> 
> Good, lord.  So rather than putting a tariff on value-added products, finished goods, he taxes raw materials, thus ensuring that the economic impacts of the tariff flows through the entire supply chain.  That's brilliant.  NOT!!!  It's flat-out stupid.
> ...




What?  You were down when O was doing this.

U.S. Slaps Tariffs on Chinese Solar Panels

What Obama's Tire Trade Tariffs Really Mean


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## Cellblock2429 (Jun 26, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
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/——/ Which is what Trump does and you libs whine about it. Besides EU started the tariffs, Trump is hitting back.


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## Cellblock2429 (Jun 26, 2018)

sealybobo said:


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/——/ What??? Is your reading comprehension that poor? Dems wanted the tariffs. How is that blaming them? You nincompoop


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## sealybobo (Jun 26, 2018)

Cellblock2429 said:


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Trump Budget Proposes Cuts From Safety Net He Promised to Protect


Are you better off now than you were in 2016?  No you are not.


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## Golfing Gator (Jun 26, 2018)

Cellblock2429 said:


> Golfing Gator said:
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This is just one more lie that Trump has told you sheep that you blindly accept as reality. 

The idea that we had no tariffs till Trump started to make new and bigger ones is so far from reality I am embarrassed for you.


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## sealybobo (Jun 26, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
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If Trump's tariffs were doing us good I'd say ok but so far it looks like he's just hurting workers and American companies.


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## Golfing Gator (Jun 26, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Golfing Gator said:
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I am against tariffs, period.  A tariff is nothing more than the central government picking winners and losers and maintaining control of portions of the economy while impinging on my liberty to choose to buy what I want to buy.


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## BluesLegend (Jun 26, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> BluesLegend said:
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What are you smoking lib?


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## Wickerthing (Jun 26, 2018)

Correll said:


> Wickerthing said:
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Where do you come by your vast knowledge of macro and micro econ?  Trump University? LOL  For anyone to believe Trump cares about anything outside of himself is an act of ignorance.  He's flying blind and it will cost all of us.  The working folks, elderly, disabled, sick, poor etc.  Everyone but Trump.  You're such a naive sucker.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 26, 2018)

sealybobo said:


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Yeah, and just like the Bush wars and the trashed economy it will be up to Democrats to clean up their mess.  It's a consistent pattern.  And another consistent pattern is that when the GOP screws everything up again, they'll blame democrats and stupid people will believe it. 
Someone once said the Dems are the party of no ideas and the GOP is the party of bad ideas.  But maybe if dems didn't have to fix every fuck-up by the GOP they could get things done.


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## sealybobo (Jun 26, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
> 
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I have to agree.  But in Correll's defense Trump is a great con artist.  He sold half the country hook line and stinker.  

It was brilliant to give Correll $30 more on his paychecks.  Now when Trump asks him if he's doing better now than he was 4 years ago, he can say yes.  $30 better.  Meanwhile they'll be cutting his social security benefits 25% and raising his retirement age to 70.  

And how come blue collar wages aren't way up?  With all these illegals gone I would have assumed McDonalds would have to pay $15 hr to find help because jobs are so plentiful.  Sure doesn't seem like unemployment is near zero.  Maybe Trump was right that number isn't real.  LOL.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 26, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
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I think he just smoked you, Trumpsheep.


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## BluesLegend (Jun 26, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> BluesLegend said:
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Yeah thinking not your strong suit.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 26, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


> Wickerthing said:
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I'll match wits with you on any subject.  Try me.  For anyone to accuse anyone else of not thinking and then support this yellow scourge is both ironic and contradictory.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 26, 2018)

sealybobo said:


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Trumpers haven't seen anything yet.  The young folks who support him had better be independently wealthy in their own right because they will have zero as a social safety net.  They've paid into it with their tax dollars from wages and now Trump is gonna snatch it away.  Oh, my goodness, HE LIED!  No, it can't be!  He's gotta pay for the massive giveaway to himself somehow.  How fuckin' naive can people be?  Morons.


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## BluesLegend (Jun 26, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


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You are no match for me junior.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 26, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


> Wickerthing said:
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Junior?  You must be a real geezer because I'm 68, junior.  Like I said pick a topic and we'll find a test we can both take.  I guarantee you'll lose badly.


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## BULLDOG (Jun 26, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> BluesLegend said:
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I've got socks older than him.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 26, 2018)

BULLDOG said:


> Wickerthing said:
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I just figured nobody could get that stupid without a long lifetime of practicing ignorance.  But then again, maybe he's a natural.


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## BluesLegend (Jun 27, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> BluesLegend said:
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You are JV at politics trust me on this.


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## BluesLegend (Jun 27, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> BULLDOG said:
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^^^ more proof you are in the minor leagues. Why don't you pick a topic, I'll destroy you, you will deflect to the typical liberal personal insults while I laugh at you. In fact I may as well get started


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## Wickerthing (Jun 27, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


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Let's start with this trade war with china.  Good idea? Why?  Any downside to it? Why?


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## Wickerthing (Jun 27, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


> Wickerthing said:
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Legend?  Maybe in you own mind.  I picked a subject.  Crickets.


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## Correll (Jun 27, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
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I have, at times. 





> Trade balance matters.  China watches way more American movies than we watch Chinese movies.  Are you ready to start watching Godzilla and Jackie Chan movies?




Of course trade balance matters. Thank you. 


The anti-Trumpers who claim otherwise are either fools or liars. 

And I've watched plenty of Godzilla and Jackie Chan movies. And I'm open to watch more of them, if they don't suck.




> Riddle me this.  How come Trumps tariffs are sending Harley Davidson overseas?  Not bringing companies back home.  Or are you hoping that companies that want to sell to America will then be forced to move to America?  So what European company is moving into the abandoned Harley plants?




Because our trading "partners" are pushing back. That was always likely. Victory was never assured. But if we just let them fuck US, without fighting back, we can ensure defeat.


As you can see over the last 50 years.


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## BluesLegend (Jun 27, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> BluesLegend said:
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I have been busy working today to pay the bills of all the deadbeat moochers who vote Dem for government handouts PAID FOR BY ME. I'll give you a moment to recover from that beating then we will talk China.


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## BluesLegend (Jun 27, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> BluesLegend said:
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Lets hope you have done your homework. Lets test your knowledge, tell me why the US has previously allowed China to steal from us and screw us over on trade? Lets see if you can answer that question accurately, because knowing this history is fundamental to a discussion on China/US trade.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 27, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
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You really are an idiot aren't you?  This deficit spending wasn't invented by Democrats, you fool.  Neither was supply-side.  That's the baby of Reaganism as is union busting.  You know, where workers can't organize to fight for better wages and working conditions.  That was the birth of deficits and the now enormous income gap.  And now you support the king of all spenders and money grabbers.  The only beating going on is the beating Trump is doing on everything American.


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## BluesLegend (Jun 27, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> BluesLegend said:
> 
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LOL you realize I'm not the person you were discussing deficit spending with right.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 27, 2018)

BluesLegend said:


> Wickerthing said:
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Your post 1386 talks of the moochers who vote Democrat.  That's you right?  I'll give you a minute to read your own post.  The Moochers are the folks who vote themselves giant breaks while tossing morons like you a bone.  This results in the deficit spending you love to put on Dems.  At the cuurent rate, over 8 years like Obama, Trump will overspend by about 12-15 Trillion.  And he inherited a healthy economy from Obama.  He didn't have to inject trillions to restart what Bush destroyed.


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## BluesLegend (Jun 27, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> BluesLegend said:
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What does my working overtime to pay the bills of Dem moochers have to do with deficit spending?


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## Correll (Jun 27, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
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> > Wickerthing said:
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And AGAIN, you don't actually specify what point you are disagreeing with.


Let's see I count, two strawmen, four proofs by ridicule, one self contradiction, two unsupported assertions, 6 appeals to emotion, 


and not one specific policy based disagreement with my post that you initially "replied to".



Like I said, all you are doing is filibustering, because you know your position is indefensible.


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## Syriusly (Jun 27, 2018)

Lets see so far the tariffs are sending U.S. motorcycle manufacturing jobs to Europe- and threatening to close a U.S. nail manufacturer!

Go Trump!


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## ABikerSailor (Jun 27, 2018)

Syriusly said:


> Lets see so far the tariffs are sending U.S. motorcycle manufacturing jobs to Europe- and threatening to close a U.S. nail manufacturer!
> 
> Go Trump!



Don't forget the soybean farmers.  Saw one on the nightly news tonight that said prices for soybeans have dropped over 2 dollars per bushel since Trump enacted the tariffs.  

Then..................there are the recycling plants that send tons of material to China for processing.  Now?  Tons of the stuff they were going to send has ended up in landfills because China has greatly reduced their demand for US recycling material.  Or, if they are still buying it, they are making it harder to ship because they want the material to be super clean and sorted.


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## sealybobo (Jun 27, 2018)

Correll said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
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Trumps tariffs are negatively effecting my business and many others that do manufacturing.

You think this is going to bring jobs home I see it hurting american businesses who do business with China Canada Mexico and europe. 

And in the end are your wages going up because of this? Fuck no. That’s trickle down. Don’t hold your breath


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## Indeependent (Jun 27, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
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Like when a baby is first and cries.
And eventually it grows up and stops crying only when there's a Democrat in the Oval Office.


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## Correll (Jun 27, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...






What I've heard is that local manufacturers are being flooded with inquires from European manufacturers who are looking to move production here to avoid tariffs.


And yes, I think more manufacturing jobs will bring wages up. ANd no that is not "Trickle Down".



Trickle down would be that the CEO and shareholders get lots of profits from outsourcing, and then supposedly invest or spend the money locally, with the windfall eventually making it's way to the middle class or working poor.


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## Indeependent (Jun 27, 2018)

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


"Trickle down would be that the CEO and shareholders get lots of profits from outsourcing, and then supposedly invest or spend the money locally, with the windfall eventually making it's way to the middle class or working poor."
You mean the money they pay their Illegals?


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## Correll (Jun 27, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
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Exactly. One of the many flaws with Trickle Down. The out dated assumption that money would cycle within the legal American community, helping many people.



ANd not just being sucked away.


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## Indeependent (Jun 27, 2018)

Correll said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
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That's one of the problems with instant global communication...you can pay for super cheap labor and keep tabs on it constantly.


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## Correll (Jun 27, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Correll said:
> 
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> > Indeependent said:
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Until someone comes along and changes the rules of the game.


Which is what we should do. Right fucking now.


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## basquebromance (Jun 27, 2018)

"That's not free trade -- that's stupid trade." -President Trump in Fargo, ND 

 I totally agree! America is getting ripped off by even our allies.


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## basquebromance (Jun 27, 2018)

Trump: "When we're $500 billion down, they say 'Trump is starting a trade war.' I say, 'No, the trade war ended a long time ago and U.S. lost because our leaders didn't take care of our people and our companies.'"

Trump then reads a note he says he was given about how Canada is unfair to American wheat growers, then says, "Do you know what that means? I don't know what the hell it means...what the hell does that mean?" He dismissively tosses away the card on which this was written for him.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 27, 2018)

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
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Bingo.  Except that it never trickles down to the middle class. Bush Sr. called supply-side voodoo economics and he was absolutely right.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 28, 2018)

Correll said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
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The legal American community?  WTF does that even mean?  Did you stick the word legal in there because it makes you sound smart?  It doesn't.  It makes you look like what you are, a clueless cult member. You don't know what trickle down is or what supply side is and who started it.  It's obvious that you should go back to school and pick up in the 7th grade where you left off.  LOL


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## Wickerthing (Jun 28, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
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Hey, Warren Buffett, that sentence makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.  You and your partner love to throw out lame nonsense and feed off of each other's stupidity.  It's a hoot to watch.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 29, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> "That's not free trade -- that's stupid trade." -President Trump in Fargo, ND
> 
> I totally agree! America is getting ripped off by even our allies.



What's stupid is the idea that you think a guy who no US bank will do business with and who has scammed everyone who ever did business with him, is the right guy to deal with US trade.  He knows nothing about anything except how to enrich himself at the expense of others.  These tariffs are gonna bite us all in the ass.


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## Correll (Jun 29, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...




It was a reference to a point made in the post I was replying to, addressing the amount of money that instead of going to American workers, was instead paid to illegal aliens.


I bolded and enlarged that part above for you. Try reading it again.


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## sealybobo (Jun 29, 2018)

Correll said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
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We’ve become the UCA. United Corporations of America.

You trust them not your government who represents you. I understand why you don’t trust your government but why do you trust corporations? We all know they view labor as a cost not an asset.

Any temporary bumb in wages is just that. Temporary.

You’ll see.

By the way. I see very few threads posted by you cons showing us evidence America is great again. You show us you fucking with illegals but now show us wages going up because of supply and demand. 

You show us trump tariffs but then we see Harley is leaving. 

Show us a jobs report that’s better than Obama’s. Trump promised 5% growth


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## Wickerthing (Jun 29, 2018)

Correll said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
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> > Correll said:
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Name a single job that illegals do that Americans would do for the same wage.  You really are clueless.


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## Correll (Jun 29, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
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1. I never said I trusted corporations. YOu must have misunderstood what I said. Try reading just what I write and not making assumptions about hidden meanings.

2. I don't trust the government, because the government has demonstrated they are a tool of the Political Class that has nothing but contempt for me.


3. Trump's policies on Trade and Immigration have not yet been fully implemented. And yes, I wish he would move faster.

4. Supply and demand are real. If enough illegals are deported, and are not replaced by returning illegals or legal immigrants, and jobs, especially better jobs keep coming, wages should start to rise.


5. Push back was always going to occur. The question to ask, is why do you think that happened? Anti-tariff people claimed that deficits don't matter. It seems Europeans think they do matter.


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## Correll (Jun 29, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
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I've done many of those jobs that people like you claim that Americans won't do. And I worked along other Americans doing them too.


So, save your nonsense for some young punk with no life experience that might fall for it.


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## Indeependent (Jun 29, 2018)

Correll said:


> Wickerthing said:
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Me too.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 29, 2018)

Correll said:


> Wickerthing said:
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Okay, so name one.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 29, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Correll said:
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So, you've picked fruit in the Florida or Texas heat for a couple of bucks an hour?  Sure you did.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 29, 2018)

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
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The only thing that's gonna rise by pissing on immigration and punishing our allies is costs and interest rates.  Watch.  Huge deficits and inflation will happen very quickly because of these moronic trade wars.  Trump doesn't care, he gets two key things he wants.  He gets to act like a moronic bully and he already has the big tax bonanza for himself.  Watch in the next 6 months what happens to interest rates and the deficit/national debt and costs to the working folks on goods we rely on.  And unless you're independently wealthy, you'll feel it big time too.  
And, to think that replacing low wage immigrants with Americans in jobs like harvesting etc is gonna happen is to demonstrate how little you know about economics even at a base level.


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## Indeependent (Jun 29, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
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Washed dishes.
Cooked.
Janitor.
And only 2% of Ilegals pick fruits and veggies.
98% are babysitters, cleaning people and lawn keepers.
And what was your profession prior to suffering from PTSD?


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## Indeependent (Jun 29, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
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How many illegals do you live with or use for cheap labor?


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## Wickerthing (Jun 29, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
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Gee, you did all that?  Was this before or after you became a millionaire wizard of Wall St?  LOL
As far as PTSD, I worked at V.A.  I just retired last year and I've seen what that can do to veterans.  For you to belittle their service is right in line with the asshole you are.
You never answered my question there Warren.  What brokerage houses did you work at and in what capacity?


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## sealybobo (Jun 29, 2018)

Correll said:


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Stop calling it the political class and start calling it what it is.  It's the rich class!!!  The government serves the rich and corporations.  More now than ever with Trump's Supreme Court picks.  Do you know since Alito and Roberts the Supremes have sided with the rich and corporations 100% of the time and NEVER with the citizen who's taking them on.  Companies like Trump rule the world now sucker.  You'll see when you NEVER retire.  Watch.  The middle class just took a huge hit with this Trump presidency.  You keep entertaining yourself with delusions that Trump is working for you.  If he was he wouldn't have passsed that bullshit tax bill and he would nominate a moderate to the Supreme Court.  

And you think busting unions is going to bring wages up?  You don't realize what the unions have done for you.  That's ok I'm not going to convince you.  Just know when you never retire, it wasn't the Democrats fault.  I know you will blame them but in advance, that's bullshit.

No supply and demand does not always bring wages up.  In fact there is a shortage of workers and wages are not going up like they should.  So eventually the solution is going to be to import more legal immigrants.  The last thing corporations want is for employees to have the power.

Let me know when the job market is a employees market.  Do you know the last time that happened?  It was when GM, Chrysler and Ford were paying their employees a lot of money.  It brought all their wages up.  Now you don't have that bar.  That $35 hr bar.  Now you have Walmart as the bar.  So good luck making America great again.  Don't hold your breath unless you are rich.  If you are rich, it never stopped being great.  

Just know you got played and you signed up for Trump U.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 29, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
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Ya know, I could use a dishwasher and with your experience, I'd be willing to pay $3 an hour.  Deal?


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## sealybobo (Jun 29, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
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I know some illegal mexicans they buy weed from me.  Crazy they used to bring up dirt weed from Mexico and today they buy my good Michigan grown stuff.


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## Indeependent (Jun 29, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


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I make it a habit not to give personal information to someone such as yourself who presents as mentally disturbed.


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## Indeependent (Jun 29, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


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So tell us about your illegal family and friends.


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## sealybobo (Jun 29, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
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Illegals also do housekeeping, factory jobs, work at airports, in Trump resorts, cleaning pools, carpentry work, laying carpet, cooks, waiters, dishwashers, janitorial work.....


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## Wickerthing (Jun 29, 2018)

sealybobo said:


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Yeah, these cons actually think it was a tax bill aimed at the middle class.  The income gap is yawning even wider than before the wonderful tax relief we got until, of course they take it back and more through raiding the social safety net.  These young morons think that'll never affect them. Can we say, "rude awakening?"


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## sealybobo (Jun 29, 2018)

Indeependent said:


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When I've been unemployed I have worked for friends for $10 hr.  Under the table of course.  Mold removal was the worst job I had.  And there were young Americans working for the guy I worked for.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 29, 2018)

Indeependent said:


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I see you're online.  Quick, what's a default swap?   Hurry, don't look it up.


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## Indeependent (Jun 29, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Indeependent said:
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Me too and I also bartered.
I still help people out for free.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 29, 2018)

Indeependent said:


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C'mon.  Answer the question that
SHOULD BE EASY FOR YOU.


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## Indeependent (Jun 29, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
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Why not explain to us why Credit Default Swaps are the actual instruments that caused the crash?
Any asshole, including yourself, can look up anything on the web and get back to me 2 days later.

Now tell us about the illegals in your family.


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## Indeependent (Jun 29, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


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Telling us why you love illegals should be even easier for you, Mr. Patriot.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 29, 2018)

Indeependent said:


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Yeah, what are they?


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## sealybobo (Jun 29, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


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They'll blame liberals for their failings.  This is called Lottery mentality.  Instead of saying, "I want social security to be strengthened" they feel sorry for the rich who say they are overtaxed because of such programs as social security.  They imagine one day they may be millionaires and then they would too think it's unfair that they have to pay taxes for such programs.

What they don't realize is that the people who are rich got rich in a society that had social programs and safety nets.  Look close enough at any of their lives you will see those social programs/safety nets helped them to become rich.  Cheap college, their parents were in unions, etc.

I have a friend when his dad died he got to go to free private school.  Today he is against such programs. 

Republicans think they live in the house they built with their own two hands.


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## Indeependent (Jun 29, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


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This Thread, like all the Threads you post on, is simply a catharsis for your endless tirades of hatred towards anyone who wants the US to have borders.
Now stop spewing your irrational run sentences and tell us, without telling us your name or locale, why you became the person you are.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 29, 2018)

Indeependent said:


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That's what I thought.  You're lying again.  Mr Wall St.  LOL


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## Wickerthing (Jun 29, 2018)

Indeependent said:


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Because I have an education and I'm not blind to tyrannical despots.  Like you are.


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## Indeependent (Jun 29, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


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On Ignore.


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## Correll (Jun 29, 2018)

Indeependent said:


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I know. THe idea that every white kid goes to college and graduates to go work in his daddy's business starting off at 80k a year, is as much a racist stereo type as the black drug addict mugger.


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## Indeependent (Jun 29, 2018)

Correll said:


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I put Wicker on Ignore.
I’m betting he’s an Illegal who jumped ahead in the Immigration queue.


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## Correll (Jun 29, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


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Sure. Taxi Driver.


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## sealybobo (Jun 29, 2018)

Correll said:


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Not realizing your white privilege may not be because you are a racist but why do you deny it?  

Anyways, you at least vote.  Black people could have got a Democrat elected but they went along with you and they didn't show up to vote so fuck illegals and brown people.  They don't vote so they don't matter.  


And a white male business owner should be allowed to hire all his sons male white friends and should not be forced to hire any brown people.  Right?  Don't try to pretend there aren't a million small business' in America who only give young white males a chance.  Occasionally a woman but mostly the good old boys club.  I belong to it.  It exists.


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## Correll (Jun 29, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


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It is a lie to pretend that most illegals are migrant farm workers. That is very dishonest of you.


And I know how concerned you are with lies...


lol!


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## sealybobo (Jun 29, 2018)

Correll said:


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Uber Better Not Be the Future of Work


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## Indeependent (Jun 29, 2018)

sealybobo said:


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It probably is so you better become an engineer.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 29, 2018)

Indeependent said:


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I was getting too close to the truth about his bullshit claim to be a Wall Street whiz.


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## sealybobo (Jun 29, 2018)

Indeependent said:


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I'm in sales.  I've been hurt by a bad economy before so I just hope that Republicans don't effect the industry I'm in now like they did in the 2000's.  And if they do they'll tell us the economy is fine just like they did from 2000-2008.  It wasn't until 2016 that Republicans were finally ready to admit it.  Why?  Because whatever Trump says, they agree with

Trump hits Bush: Invading Iraq 'the single worst decision ever made'


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## Indeependent (Jun 29, 2018)

sealybobo said:


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I guess whatever you sell has nothing to do with new or expanding homes or businesses.


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## sealybobo (Jun 29, 2018)

Indeependent said:


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No but we buy from China and sell into Mexico and Canada

Why is he hurting people who deal with expanding homes or business' or helping them?


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## Indeependent (Jun 29, 2018)

sealybobo said:


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Trump’s tariffs have caused marginal increases in steel and have had zero effect on sales.


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## sealybobo (Jun 29, 2018)

Indeependent said:


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They haven't gone into affect yet!  If they do it will be a huge problem for my company and many other manufacturers.  

The Trump administration said Tuesday that it will place a 25 percent tariff on Chinese products like flat-screen televisions, medical devices, aircraft parts and batteries, outlining more than 1,300 imported goods that will soon face levies as part of a sweeping trade measure aimed at penalizing China for its trade practices.

China said it would slap tariffs on 128 American products in response to a separate White House plan to tax steel and aluminum from China and other countries.

*A move by President Donald Trump to impose tariffs on cars assembled in Europe would dramatically escalate trade tensions and produce a quick response from the European Union.*
Trump threatened to make cars his next major target in a transatlantic trade tussle on Friday, saying they were in line for a 20% tariff if the European Union did not remove its own tariffs and trade barriers.


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## Indeependent (Jun 29, 2018)

sealybobo said:


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I belong to a very large community that has family all over the US...I ain't buying it.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 29, 2018)

sealybobo said:


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As I've said before. How the fuck can anyone think Trump cares about working folks?  And how the fuck can anyone see it as a good idea to put our future economic hopes on a conman who no American bank will deal with?  The only country that will benefit and has already by Trump's Presidency is Putin's Russia. The most thoroughly corrupt and treasonous Adm in history. All these Russian connections and capitulations to Putin's govt can only mean one thing.  Treasonous collusion with our number one enemy to fix an American election. There's not a shadow of a doubt unless of course you are a cult member in which case you've been struck deaf, dumb and blind.  It's astounding what's going on here.


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## sealybobo (Jun 29, 2018)

Indeependent said:


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If you ain’t in manufacturing you don’t know.

I’m not doing bad right now. I’m doing almost as good as I did in 2016. You know, the year republicans said the economy sucked.

I didn’t buy it but America did. Reminds me of 2000. People didn’t think bush could possibly break the good economy Clinton handed him.

Will trump break Obama’s economy? I hope not


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## Wickerthing (Jun 29, 2018)

sealybobo said:


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That plan is already well under way, and unlike Bush, he'll do it without lying us into a war.  That's the pattern.  So-called fiscal conservatives get elected, screw everything up and then voters wake up and vote Democratic so the clean-up crew can come in and fix and clean up the mess.  Clinton did it, Obama did it, and now the GOP is ahead of schedule of fuckin it up.  My guess, it'll be far worse this time with high inflation caused by tariffs, lack of Govt revenue, and out of control defense spending.  Not to mention the giant cash grab tax reform.  Btw, I saw Grover Nordquist tonight in an interview on the economy.  The questioner asked his opinion of why enthusiasm is way down by working folks for the tax bill.  He actually explained it this way.  "Well, some folks look at their pay stubs and they see the extra money but many people have direct deposit and so they don't notice it."  He actually fuckin' said that. LOL  Another Trump economist on acid.


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## deanrd (Jun 29, 2018)

dudmuck said:


> Worked great back in 2002:
> _The protection of the steel industry in the United States had unintended consequences and perverse effects: it reduced production of steel in the United States,[how?] increased costs to users, and increased unemployment in associated industries. A study from 2003 found that around 200,000 jobs were lost as a result.[6][7]_
> I wonder what Trump tower is built from?
> _
> And Obama's chinese tires._


Is there a reason Obama's Chinese Tires links to 2002 steel tariffs?


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## deanrd (Jun 29, 2018)

Brain357 said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> ...


Isn't that the GOP plan?


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## Likkmee (Jun 29, 2018)

I only buy Brazilian and Chilean steel so it makes no difference to me.


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## Correll (Jun 30, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


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I will be watching. Will you? Or will you be just accepting as Gospel whatever spun crap the media hands you?


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## sealybobo (Jun 30, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


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To be honest, I don’t look. I was told I’d make about $3k this year but I’d give it up to get that Supreme Court pick


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## Correll (Jun 30, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Wickerthing said:
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I've done two of your three, also.

It is so repulsive the way the Left lies about the jobs illegals do. 


And so insulting to the Americans who have or are doing those jobs, to say that Americans won't do them.


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## Correll (Jun 30, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
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Are you really surprised that an American has a bunch of low paid menial jobs in their background?


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## sealybobo (Jun 30, 2018)

Correll said:


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I’ll agree. A man used to be able to feed a family being a waiter. And guys could go make good money working at ford or gm. If those jobs don’t exist then I want the maids, landscapers and carpenters to get compensated fairly so Americans can feed their families.

I heard at the meijers they’re paying $15 hr. That’s pretty good


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## Wickerthing (Jun 30, 2018)

Correll said:


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If I didn't have a mind of my own like you, I'd believe what the conman says but since I do have a mind of my own, I'll trust economists and they're talking inflation because of the tarrifs and other things like withdrawing from every trade agreement ever made and alientaing our staunch allies.  And, as I see you've bought the whole fake news mantra from the most fake human on earth.  You'll have to live with that moronic decision.


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## Correll (Jun 30, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
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What is your alternative to Trump's Trade and Immigration policy as a way to see wages rise?


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## Correll (Jun 30, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Indeependent said:
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Wicker thinks that Americans won't do those jobs. 


A lot of lefties claim that.


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## Correll (Jun 30, 2018)

sealybobo said:


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Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
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The economists said that the dislocation from "Free Trade" would be a temporary problem, and that workers would either easily retrain for new high tech jobs, or be rehired to the new and more competitive US manufacturers.


They have not admitted that they were wrong. They are still trying to sell the same bullshit that has not worked.


IN this case, the historian trumps the economist. Because we have recent history of those economists being wrong.


They don't get to cite their credentials and expect us to be impressed after the last 40 years.



You told me to watch. I said I would. And I will be. 


You will not. YOur mind is made up and nicely closed. Standard for a modern lib.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 30, 2018)

Correll said:


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No, I said they wouldn't do it at the same wage as migrant workers.  In the case of replacing those workers with Americans, that's automatically inflationary because the cost of the goods and services would automatically rise to cover the additional expense to business owners.  Migrant workers have always been a key to our economy and a key to keeping prices under control. Any economist worth his salt will tell you that.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 30, 2018)

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
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Oh, I'll be watching.  And you'll be silent when it happens because that's the standard of Trump cultists.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 30, 2018)

Correll said:


> Indeependent said:
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You're repulsed by lies?  Really?  LOL.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 30, 2018)

sealybobo said:


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If folks don't really see a larger paycheck unless they look at their pay stub it sure isn't much.  You can bet that Trump sees his windfall without having to look. And, that was the plan.  A bone for the working man and a bonanza for himself and his entire millionaire administration and cabinet.  How fuckin' stupid can his supporters be?  It's amazing. He cares so much for the poor that he's taking their food subsidies away and threatening soc sec and Medicare/Medicaid and expansion in certain states.  I'm sure he doesn't sleep at night because the working man is on his mind. LOL


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## Indeependent (Jun 30, 2018)

sealybobo said:


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I'm confused...you said you were losing business and now you say you're not?


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## Indeependent (Jun 30, 2018)

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
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Wicker is a flat out, emotionally and mentally disturbed masochistic altruist.


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## Indeependent (Jun 30, 2018)

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
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Economists are paid to paint the circle around the arrow after the arrow's been shot.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 30, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Correll said:
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I must have struck a big nerve when I questioned your bullshit claim to be a Wall St whiz.  Your silly rant just now contained many multi-syllabic words.  You must be exhausted.  Your support of Trump makes you an expert at supporting mentally disturbed people, so why don't you love me?  Sniff sniff. Tell Warren I said Hi.


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## Wickerthing (Jun 30, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Correll said:
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Yeah, Trump is a much better choice to evaluate the economy. LOL  After all, he went to Trump U.


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## Correll (Jul 1, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


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Which was you moving the goal posts, btw. 



> In the case of replacing those workers with Americans, that's automatically inflationary because the cost of the goods and services would automatically rise to cover the additional expense to business owners.



I don't think that a nurse' aide making 15 bucks an hour instead of 9, is going to break the economy. 

And, what is your alternative idea for improving things of the American worker? 



> Migrant workers have always been a key to our economy and a key to keeping prices under control. Any economist worth his salt will tell you that.



"Migrant" workers? These are not migrants we are talking about. Very few of them are going to be moving home any time soon (unless Trump forces them to).



So, that is nothing but bullshit on your part. That is you still pretending that we are talking about a few thousand strawberry pickers.


For someone who is supposedly so offended by lying, you sure do a lot of it.


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## Correll (Jul 1, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


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Do you not realize that nearly all the Trump supporters are Republicans who watched and realized that "Free Trade" was not delivering, despite what our Republicans leaders kept saying?


Trump won the primaries because we are not the sheep that you think you see when you look at us.


Wake the fuck up. 


Dumb ass.


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## Correll (Jul 1, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
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THis one is pretty repulsive. Let's break it down some.


1. It is very damaging to America and Americans. You lefties have successfully used this to support a policy that has caused terrible suffering to American and Americans, when it comes to jobs and crime and just dividing US up.


2. It is so incredibly and obviously untrue, that just saying it, is an insult to the intelligence of those you are lying to.

3. You lefties are so smug and confident about this utterly stupid lie you are telling. It literally disgusts me to see some one being such a lying ass, and hurting so many people, and managing to to somehow feel good about it.


4. It is insulting to the tens of millions, if not more, of Americans who have or ARE doing those jobs that you say Americans won't do. The implication is that those people are so poor or low class that they are not REAL Americans. That level of Classism, actually holding weight in American politics is disgusting to me.


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## Correll (Jul 1, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Correll said:
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I reject the notions that lefties are motivated by altruism.

They are too fucking mean spirited and full of hate for me to buy that shit.


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## Correll (Jul 1, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Correll said:
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That's a good one. I'll remember that one.


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## Correll (Jul 1, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
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ONe sentence is not normally considered a rant.


Your post was garbage. HE is the one that struck a nerve, getting to you consider a one sentence post a "rant".


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## Correll (Jul 1, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
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YOu made a point. YOu cited experts in the field and what they say.



I pointed out that they are saying the same shit that did not work the way it was supposed to, over the last 50 years.



You did not respond directly to my response to you.

Instead all you offered was the Logical Fallacy of Appeal to Ridicule and some more Appeal to Authority.


That's a hard fail on your part.


My point stands.



THe economists have been proving wrong. We tried it their way, and it did not work.



YOu don't get to ignore the results of their policy and just keep citing their credentials.


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## sealybobo (Jul 1, 2018)

Correll said:


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You know what? I’m going to wish trump luck and hope he makes things more fair for the American people. Same way you guys cheered when obama did away with pre existing conditions.


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## Correll (Jul 1, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
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That's nice, but my question was serious.


I want to know what your alternatives are for improving things for the American Worker.


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## sealybobo (Jul 1, 2018)

Correll said:


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Just remember this. The rich have been controlling our government all this time. Since the 70s let’s say. So they and their spokesmen can tell you our way didn’t work but it was working just fine. Now it’s working better, for them not you. This is what it’s like when corporations run America. You have no idea how important those Supreme Court picks are going to mean to the middle class. We’re screwed. Buckle up and start saving


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## sealybobo (Jul 1, 2018)

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Forget it you won’t like it


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## sealybobo (Jul 1, 2018)

It has to do with a well regulated corporate America. Ceo can’t make 300 x the average worker


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## Correll (Jul 1, 2018)

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Trump's policies, if implemented will be a radical change from the policies since the 70s.


If you didn't like the 70s and 80s, and 90s, and 00s, why are you not happy to see that change?


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## Correll (Jul 1, 2018)

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Surely you aren't a marxist who believes in the state owning and controlling everything?


I'm unlikely to be offended by anything that is not that.


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## sealybobo (Jul 1, 2018)

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In Germany When we stumbled onto the beautiful pool that was free to the people in the community, I compared it to what we have here in the USA. Lifetime fitness. It’s 70 a person per month. Most Americans can’t afford it. So, maybe our government can tax each of us $1 and we can all have a community park that’s free to all citizens.

Or is that unconstitutional?

I like some of the stuff trumps doing. But overall I don’t like his tax cuts to the rich and starting trade wars but he is now my president and I hope what he does works.

I’ll try not to be like you guys in 2016 you gave obama no credit for his success but damn it worked so maybe I’ll say trump sucks even if he doesn’t to win an election. I’ll be petty like you guys were. I’ll ask you what the real unemployment number is. I’ll start worrying about the debt and stock market and sluggish jobs numbers.

The economy should be R.I.P. roaring after that tax break. What happened? Did they sock those gains away or give the ceos a big raise? Then it didn’t do anything. Same thing happened when bush gave his unnecessary tax breaks


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## Wickerthing (Jul 1, 2018)

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Okay, I'll try to be more like Trump.  LOL You're hopeless.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 1, 2018)

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Yeah, mean spirited.  Like the way we tore kids away from their parents who dared dream the American dream.  Blindness has cure, open your fuckin' eyes. LOL


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## Wickerthing (Jul 1, 2018)

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You get more delusional by the minute.  You hate classism?  (that's not a word) yet you defend the white grand wizard in the oval office.  That's called hypocrisy and Stupidism.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 1, 2018)

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CEOs at a symposium before the tax bill passed were polled with the question, "How many here will expand their businesses when the tax bill passes?" Not a single hand went up.  There were a few hundred in attendance. They did what they said they'd do.  Enjoyed the raise that they didn't deserve or need.


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## Unkotare (Jul 1, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> ..... So, maybe our government can tax each of us $1 and we can all have a community park that’s free to all citizens.....




The free public parks in America together are far, far larger than the entire nation of Germany, tourist. Every major city has municipal pools free to the public in the summer months. Stop playing the ugly anti-American.


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## Correll (Jul 1, 2018)

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I live in a rust belt city. Lot of parks free to the public. Public pools that do cost something. Not 70 bucks a month.


I keep asking for what you want. You don't seem to have a real alternative.

The Tax cuts don't matter to wages. Higher taxes don't cause higher wages.


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## Correll (Jul 1, 2018)

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Your admission of defeat is accepted. 


Let's keep an eye out for reports of rising wages. SHould not be too long now.


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## Correll (Jul 1, 2018)

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No. I don't really blame you libs for that. Sure Obama did it. That's when the photo was from.


But really the parents are to blame. 


No, your hate and meanness are expressed in other ways. Lots of other ways.


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## Correll (Jul 1, 2018)

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Your race baiting is noted and held against you. You are a race baiting asshole. 


Other than that, you did nothing to address my points about your lie, so they all stand.


THis one is pretty repulsive. Let's break it down some.


1. It is very damaging to America and Americans. You lefties have successfully used this to support a policy that has caused terrible suffering to American and Americans, when it comes to jobs and crime and just dividing US up.


2. It is so incredibly and obviously untrue, that just saying it, is an insult to the intelligence of those you are lying to.

3. You lefties are so smug and confident about this utterly stupid lie you are telling. It literally disgusts me to see some one being such a lying ass, and hurting so many people, and managing to to somehow feel good about it.


4. It is insulting to the tens of millions, if not more, of Americans who have or ARE doing those jobs that you say Americans won't do. The implication is that those people are so poor or low class that they are not REAL Americans. That level of Classism, actually holding weight in American politics is disgusting to me.


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## sealybobo (Jul 2, 2018)

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Not after Trump and the new Supreme's decide they are unconstitutional.  Do you deny taxing me for a Public park I don't ever use is unconstitutional?  Then you aren't really a Republican.


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## sealybobo (Jul 2, 2018)

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They do if inflation happens.  

What do I want?  I want the White House back.


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## sealybobo (Jul 2, 2018)

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One of my hero's Thom Hartmann said it best.  He said, "sure we should be compassionate but there is nothing compassionate about letting people come into this country illegally and undermine the American workers.  

He said "if I went to Europe and got sick they would heal me but they would not give me welfare or let me live and work there as an undocumented worker".  

And we shouldn't allow illegals to come here to work either.  

What we are doing is allowing these corrupt South American regimes to continue to do what they do and send us their problems, rather than force them to stop being corrupt and start treating their citizens better.  With our illegal immigration policies, we are enabling them. 

Again, this issue is what the GOP want us arguing about.  Not wages, the debt, russia, the Supreme Court decisions, the executive orders.  Stop talking about this my snowflake liberal brothers and sisters.


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## sealybobo (Jul 2, 2018)

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By focusing attention on issues such as immigration and North Korea, President Donald Trump has managed to deflect attention from the economic resentments that helped get him elected — namely, outrage that the rules are rigged on behalf of the wealthy and the powerful. 

Will he keep getting away with this, as Republican policies make the rich even richer and regular people more economically precarious? 

Exhibits A and B of the GOP doubling down on corrupt plutocracy are the 2017 Tax Act and the coddling of the biggest banks. The Tax Act costs $1.9 trillion dollars in revenue over a decade. Almost all of the breaks went to rich individuals and corporations, but it was supposed to produce trickle-down benefits in the form of more jobs and better pay for workers.

Now the verdict is already in on pay increases. Worker pay has remained flat for the past 12 months, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.


I told you so!!!!  

And instead of increasing domestic investments that might produce jobs, corporations mainly used the money to buy back shares of their own stock, pumping up the share value in order to further enrich executives and shareholders but doing nothing for the economy.

Corporations have spent 72 times as much on share buybacks as they have spent on one-time worker bonuses and raises. About 40 percent of all stocks are held by the top one percent, and most of the rest by the wealthiest 10 percent, so this is a pure gift for the rich.

Meanwhile, the Federal Reserve keeps freeing banks from the consumer protections of the Dodd-Frank Act and other safeguards of the Obama era. Last month, the Fed and other regulators conducted rigged “stress tests,” whose results allowed banks to reduce the capital reserves they are required to keep against losses. With more lenient capital requirements, the big banks are now free to join the parade of stock buybacks and dividend payouts.

You got played Correll!!!

The six largest banks will use $125 billion on buybacks and payouts. A lot of this is capital that might have otherwise financed loans.


According to a tabulation by The New York Times, Wells Fargo and Citigroup are spending 100 percent of their projected 2018 profits on buybacks and dividend payouts, and JPMorgan Chase 98 percent.

The tax act’s most important impact will be pressure to cut spending in popular programs such as Social Security and Medicare, to make up the deficit gap. And according to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office, the act, by pushing the national debt to an unprecedented 152 percent of GDP, increases the odds of a new financial crisis.

Meanwhile, Trump’s trade policy, despite its Make-America-Great-Again bluster, is starting to undermine good American jobs by disrupting supply chains and shrinking markets for U.S. exports. The president even managed to make iconic Harley Davidson the enemy — but without doing anything serious to alter China’s predatory practices.

In sum, Trump’s tax and regulatory policies for banks and corporations mainly allow these institutions to fatten themselves, don’t help the larger economy and his tough trade measures are perverse.

The key political question is whether voters will connect these dots and hold Trump and Republican candidates accountable for the blatant hypocrisy and bait-and-switch. 

Trump's Tax Cut Snake Oil Should Be The Story Of The Midterms | HuffPost


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## sealybobo (Jul 2, 2018)

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Donald Trump is continuing to hammer Harley-Davidson over the motorcycle company’s plans to relocate some production overseas to dodge European tariffs triggered by the president’s trade war. What Trump isn’t mentioning is that the president and his family own businesses abroad and that most Trump products are produced in foreign factories.

During a GOP primary debate before the presidential election, Trump was challenged on outsourcing products overseas. He defended the practice then, arguing: “We’re allowed to do it” — as is Harley-Davidson. “So I will take advantage of it,” he added. In a unit of “study” in the now-defunct Trump University, Trump wrote that outsourcing jobs is sometimes a “necessary step.”  

But the president again slammed the Wisconsin motorcycle company on a Fox News program Sunday, saying the company will take a “big hit” from consumers angry that an American company is moving some of its production abroad. 

“Everybody who ever bought a Harley-Davidson voted for Trump ... and they are very unhappy about it,” Trump said. He added that the company “shouldn’t play cute.” He accused Harley-Davidson on Twitter earlier in the week: “They surrendered, they quit! The aura will be gone.”

But Trump is guilty of outsourcing manufacturing to 12 different countries.  Import records revealed that Trump shirts, suits, sports coats, eyeglasses, home goods — such as furniture, lighting fixtures and mirrors — and hotel amenities including shampoo, towels and laundry bags were all made abroad. Factories used are located in China, Germany, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Vietnam and South Korea, among others.


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## Unkotare (Jul 2, 2018)

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More mindless speculation based on ignorance and an empty desire to be partisan.

Your stupidity exceeds any party affiliation.


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## sealybobo (Jul 2, 2018)

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Ask any Republican here if social security is constitutional.  I don't count you because no one knows for sure what you are.  

Maybe you aren't a history teacher.  Republicans/conservatives/the rich have always fought any program that isn't defense and requires them to pay taxes to pay for something that is considered "The Commons".  Do you know this?  Do you know the GOP hate the commons?  They think Yellowstone and the Grand Canyon would be better off in private hands.  Rather than have our government manage them because you know, "the government can't do anything right", right?  Haven't they convinced you of this?  Well then better to stop paying all those taxes to keep up the Grand Canyon.  Sell it to the Koch brothers and they can charge you a fee if you want to come in and see it.  But I don't think I should have to pay tax dollars to upkeep the Grand Canyon.  I never plan on visiting it so it's unconstitutional to make me pay it.

Don't worry stupid.  All it'll take is the next financial disaster.  They'll convince you we can't afford the Grand Canyon and "in the name of the debt" they'll sell it off. But guess what?  The debt won't go down one bit you fucking tool.  LOL.


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## sealybobo (Jul 2, 2018)

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Ha!  Well I'll be damned.  I guess it's not just mindless speculation anymore is it gooky?

As Trump moves to privatize America's national parks, visitor costs may rise



Some are concerned that the proposed privatization of some public park services would drive up costs for visitors and fail to raise enough for repairs

America’s national parks need a staggering $11.5bn worth of overdue road and infrastructure repairs. But with the proposed National Park Service budget slashed by almost $400m, the Trump administration says it will turn to privatizing public park services to address those deferred maintenance costs.


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## sealybobo (Jul 2, 2018)

focusing on privatization of park operations is a “misguided approach to dealing with the park service’s funding woes”. Instead, he believes it would be more beneficial for Zinke to provide a budget that increases funding for deferred maintenance and park staff, particularly rangers, who play an important role in engaging with visitors.

A big investment is not unprecedented. As part of the Mission 66 campaign from 1956 to 1966, designed to modernize the parks, Congress invested $1bn in infrastructure improvements. That would be $7bn-8bn in today’s dollars, Garder says.

But despite his bullishness on infrastructure spending, Trump has proposed cutting the NPS budget by nearly $400m, which will force job cuts. At the same time, Trump supports more oil and gas extraction on public lands, including in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

At a meeting of the Committee on Energy and Natural Resources this week, Zinke said reopening oil exploration that the Obama administration stopped could refill federal coffers, generating more than enough federal money to address the NPS maintenance backlog.

But Chris Saeger, director of the Western Values Project, a watchdog group focused on energy development in the west, says the Trump administration hasn’t demonstrated a desire to reinvest that revenue in the park system. “It seems irresponsible to starve the [NPS] maintenance backlog at the same time they’re increasing oil and gas production,” he says.

Saeger, who lives in Montana’s Flathead Valley, near Glacier National Park, worries that an uptick in privately operated campgrounds would mean fewer affordable camping options for park visitors.

“Living here in a community that relies on a national park, [I know] concessionaires play a big role,” he says. “And in peak season, hotel rooms can cost hundreds of dollars a night. That’s an option for some people. But the National Park System is supposed to be enjoyable by all people.”


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## Unkotare (Jul 2, 2018)

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You're too stupid, too ignorant, and too uneducated to even play the hyper-partisan successfully. You consistently make nothing but an ass of yourself here, Bobobrainless.


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## sealybobo (Jul 2, 2018)

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Do you hear yourself?  I can go back and can't find you contributing one grain towards this conversation other than to occasionally chime in to tell me I am too stupid, too ignorant, and too uneducated to even play the hyper-partisan successfully. You consistently make nothing but an ass of yourself here, Bobobrainless

Is that your tactic?  Totally blow off the fact that you first suggested that I was suggesting that Republicans find programs like federal parks and social security to be unconstitutional and it turns out that not only is that true but I found that Trump is in the process of outsourcing our national parks to private companies.  And it didn't start on Trump's watch but we see this is absolutely the plan.  You don't realize it but it's true.

This all started when I talked about a great park I stumbled onto in Germany.  It was beautiful and free to all residents.  I compared that to what we have here, private companies like Lifetime Fitness charging $70 to families that can afford it.

Then I show you that Republicans are making the National Parks experience more unaffordable by privatizing it.  I'm sure you'll defend this now that you know they are doing it.  Before you denied that they would do such a thing.  Now you'll defend it.

Anyways, start contributing more than to tell me I'm too stupid, too ignorant, and too uneducated to even play the hyper-partisan successfully. You consistently make nothing but an ass of yourself here, Bobobrainless.

I'm sick of hearing I'm  too stupid, too ignorant, and too uneducated to even play the hyper-partisan successfully. You consistently make nothing but an ass of yourself here, Bobobrainless WITHOUT YOU BACKING UP HOW AND WHY.  If not, fuck off fish.


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## sealybobo (Jul 2, 2018)

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You're too stupid, too ignorant, and too uneducated to even play the hyper-partisan successfully. You consistently make nothing but an ass of yourself here, Unkotard


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## sealybobo (Jul 2, 2018)

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More mindless speculation based on ignorance and an empty desire to be non partisan.

Your stupidity exceeds any party affiliation.


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## sealybobo (Jul 2, 2018)

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This reminds me of Republicans who are pro choice not believing Republicans will limit a woman's choice severely if given the opportunity.  You'll say it can't be done, meanwhile it's already happening.  And if you want it to happen then you must be happy with the Supreme Court pick Trump is going to make.

What Justice Kennedy's Retirement Means For Abortion Rights

Trump Says He Will Nominate New Supreme Court Justice From This List

If you are pro choice, don't vote Republican in 2018 or 2020.  

If you think I'm lying then vote GOP or even better, don't vote at all.  That's what Republicans want.  

And how can you say you don't want to ban abortion?  It's murder right?  If not, explain how it's not murder.


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## Correll (Jul 2, 2018)

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You worry that the Tax CUts might lead to so much economic activity that it causes inflation?


Seems a long way to go....


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## Correll (Jul 2, 2018)

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So, we agree on the issue. Cool.


The GOP might see this as a winning issue, and want the dems talking about it.


I want the policy fucking implemented. If it is not a matter of debate and is just done all the better.


I'll be happy to talk about wages. Because Trade and Immigration is our mostly likely path to higher wages.


imo.


Russia? A fucking joke. 

Supreme Court? Works for me. 

Executive orders? Sure.


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## sealybobo (Jul 2, 2018)

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The rhetoric surrounding Trump’s trade war has escalated recently, with American businesses, including motorcycle manufacturer Harley-Davidson, shifting some production overseas due to retaliatory tariffs by the European Union. General Motors recently told Trump’s Commerce Department that the president’s threatened tariffs on imported cars and parts could backfire with “less investment, fewer jobs and lower wages” for its American workers.

The Trump administration has drafted legislation that would allow the U.S. to ditch World Trade Organization rules and give President Donald Trump tighter control over U.S. trade policy

Are we sure we want this?

The leaked draft emerged a few days after Axios reported that Trump has repeatedly told White House officials that he wants to withdraw the U.S. from the WTO. “The WTO is designed by the rest of the world to screw the United States,” Axios’s source quoted Trump as saying.  

The proposed legislation is far from a done deal, according to other media reports and the White House itself. A CNN source said the draft is just the “beginning of a conversation” on trade. Axios reported that “most officials involved in the bill’s drafting ... think the bill is unrealistic or unworkable.”


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## sealybobo (Jul 2, 2018)

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I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with this

The proposed legislation is far from a done deal, according to other media reports and the White House itself. A CNN source said the draft is just the “beginning of a conversation” on trade. Axios reported that “most officials involved in the bill’s drafting ... think the bill is unrealistic or unworkable.”

Leaked Trump Draft Bill Would Ditch WTO Trade Rules | HuffPost

But he was elected based on the fact he said he would get us better deals.  Lets see him get us better deals.


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## ABikerSailor (Jul 2, 2018)

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Wow......................Trump actually said that "everybody who ever bought a Harley Davidson voted for Trump"?  That is not only a huge lie, but also quite hyperbolic as well.  I rode a Harley for over 7 years, and I never voted for Trump.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 2, 2018)

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It's been labeled The Fart bill and for good reason.  Fair And Recipricol Trade.  Just like the tariffs on Canada, it's based on lies for the most part.  The Trade deficit that Trump talked about with Canada was just another lie.  When traded goods and services are totaled, We actually had an 8 Billion dollar surplus in trade with them.  But whatever Trump says, no matter how silly, you zombies believe it.
And a foreign adversary fixing our elections is anything but a joke unless of course you have been indoctrinated by the conman comrade in chief.


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## Correll (Jul 3, 2018)

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Every push back from our trading partners validates Trump's policy.


Every time they push back, they demonstrate that not only do Trade Deficits/Surpluses, matter, 


But that they know it and are prepared to take strong government action, to the point of risking a Global Trade War, with all the damage that could cause, 

in order to hold on to THEIR trade Surpluses, that they get from US.




I'm excited to hear that Trump is thinking of withdrawing from the WTO. 


Shows commitment.


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## Correll (Jul 3, 2018)

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I understand your fear. Maybe we've waited to long. Maybe America no longer has the economic power to control it's own trade policy, and we will lose, and forever be the World's Bitch on Trade.


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## Correll (Jul 3, 2018)

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 Hyperbole?


hy·per·bo·le
hīˈpərbəlē/
_noun_

exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.



IF it was not meant to be taken seriously, it is not a lie. 


Words have meanings.


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## Correll (Jul 3, 2018)

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1. We don't want to engage in Trade that is not Mutually Beneficial. What part of that is offensive to you?

2. It is a joke that you think that Russia "fixed" our election. DEAL WITH IT, Your side picked a loser of a candidate and was defeated despite all you could do to "fix" it yourself.


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## sealybobo (Jul 3, 2018)

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Russia did actively get involved with our elections to defeat Hillary.  Why?  Because Hillary isn't putin's bitch like Trump is.  So, Russia should be sanctioned for doing what they did.

Now, the big question is did Trump collude?  If he did, which is sure looks like he did, he should be impeached just like Bill Clinton was impeached.  

There’s actually lots of evidence of Trump-Russia collusion


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## sealybobo (Jul 3, 2018)

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Well I'm sorry if China has all the cheap shit that Americans want to buy cheap.  Do you want to bring shoes back to the USA too?  No you do not.  So really it's only the important things I want brought back home.  MANUFACTURING is important.

My point is, we can't tell China they have to buy just as much as we buy from them if there is nothing we make that they want.

We want shoes from them.  They want airplanes from us.  They buy our movies.  We don't buy as many Chinese movies as they buy our movies.  Should we be forced to buy chinese movies from them even though we don't want them?

So really we trade with each country according to what they have and what we want.  

Can you name a specific unfair trade deal that we have with Canada?  

I know that it's about $5K cheaper to ship a car from Mexico to Europe as it is to ship from America to Europe.  Why?  Because American workers make a decent wage.  So Europeans choose to buy cars from Mexico.  That's why American car manufacturers are moving to Mexico.

This is too complicated for me.  I hope Trump fixes what's wrong, if anything is even wrong.  And if his plans will work.  For example his tariffs are just making American manufacturers who want to sell into Europe move their plants to Europe.  So now Harley will make and sell bikes in America, and they will make and sell bikes in Europe.  Problem solved but I'm not sure how that helps American workers.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 3, 2018)

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Trouble is, you believe every lie that comes from Pres. Koresh's carp lips.  Example.  Before Trumps tariffs he claimed Canada wasn't treating us fairly yet we had an 8 Billion surplus of trade with them.  He imposes these inflationary tariffs just to have yet another target for his cruel rhetoric.  And every time he does that it will cost Americans in the long run because prices will rise on imports as well.  So, your bullshit analysis is based on lies.  Trump lies, haven't you noticed?  LOL


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## Wickerthing (Jul 3, 2018)

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When it's proven that he worked in concert with our enemy to fix the elections, Impeachment doesn't begin to  make the punishment fit the crime. This is treason, plain and simple.  All involved need to do very long jail time.


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## Correll (Jul 3, 2018)

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Russia might have put some trolls in the field. As if they made a difference considering the number of home grown trolls we have.

That is not worth a new Cold War.

Trump did not collude. Stop being crazy.


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## sealybobo (Jul 3, 2018)

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I think it's a little bit bigger deal than getting a blowjob in the oval office and lying about it.  But I also don't think he should leave office for doing it.  I would just like the American people to know the truth and then vote accordingly.  

But if that tape of him saying he grabs women's privates didn't cost him the election, neither will collusion.

Also, I find it funny that you right wingers are ok that Don Trump before he became President basically has acted like a mafia boss.  They even sent some guy to threaten stormy daniels child.  And, if you don't believe that happened, you're more gullible than I thought.


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## Correll (Jul 3, 2018)

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If the Europeans want to sell US their crap, but want to buy everything they buy from someone else, 


then that does not work for US and we do not need to do it.



If it does not benefit US, let's not do it.


Let them sell their shit to Mexico, and see how that works out for them.


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## Correll (Jul 3, 2018)

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THat 8 billion surplus does not mean that they are not treating US unfairly. 


It could very well be, that in the absence of Canadian government actions that that surplus would be 16 billion dollars.


We don't want to engage in Trade that is not Mutually Beneficial. What part of that is offensive to you?


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## Correll (Jul 3, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...





1. A few trolls did not change the election.

2. This is not worth a new Cold War.

3. The tape was manufactured bullshit over nothing.

4. Trumps policies on Trade and Immigration are what the country needs.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 3, 2018)

Correll said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...




Do you ever actually think about how stupid your posts are before you spew them?   
How is doubling the trade surplus with Canada going to be mutually beneficial?  It's like most things you say.  It makes absolutely no fuckin' sense. You're hopelessly indoctrinated.  Like those poor saps in Waco.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 3, 2018)

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...





1. It was a whole lot of trolls and bots and the propaganda reached over 50 million people.

2.  Yeah, they fucked with our democracy, let's play nice so they won't do it again. LOL

3. What tape?

4. The economy was just fine before he ruined it just like every GOP Pres.  Any economist will tell you that you don't add more fuel to an already on fire economy. And you don't cut revenue just to make rich people richer.


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## Correll (Jul 3, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...





You made the point, that a 8 billion dollar trade surplus proved that Canada is being fair to US.


I pointed out that that was not true.


This was not a claim that that would be mutually beneficial.


That came from the voices in your head.



You need to be less sure of your self. And calmer.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 3, 2018)

Correll said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Because you said it's not true doesn't prove anything except once again, you have no idea what you're talking about.  let me ask you something.  What percentage of what Trump says do you believe is the truth?  Especially as what he says effects policy.  Do you believe he is sane?


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## Wickerthing (Jul 4, 2018)

I guess he's mulling over the Questions. LOL


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## Correll (Jul 5, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...





1. "Reached"? LOL!! You CLAIM that 50 million people saw a troll or a bot post. I'm sure it was a fraction of that number AND, that few minds were changed, if any.


2. It is not worth a Cold War. You really want to spend US lives because of this bs? Not to mention hundreds of billions of dollars? And what do you imagine is the end game? What would victory look like?

3. THe tape you brought up, in your post. Don't you even read the crap you post? 

4. I thought Tariffs were just a tax? What are you talking about now? Adding "fire"? Interesting little slip there, Wicker.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 5, 2018)

Correll said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...




1. I don't claim it, every intel agency in the country claims it because it's true.  You know, the thing you don't believe in.

2. Hey moron, a cold war is one without fighting. But let's just be friends with the enemy that's trying to destroy our democracy because Trump loves them.  LOL

3. Again, what tape? I didn't mention a tape. Show me.  

4. I'm talking about the massive giveaway to themselves which will serve to make Trump richer while doing nothing for the working man.  You don't do tax cuts when the economy is already fine.  Like the one Trump inherited from Obama.  What is meant only to spur economic growth has the opposite effect when tax cuts stay in the pockets of the wealthy and corporations.  Bush was stupid enough to do so while his war he lied us into was raging. The same budget shortfall will have to be made up and it's already under way on the backs of the working man, the poor and elderly and disabled.  Soc Sec, Medicare/Medicaid Food Stamps, WIC, etc etc.  You haven't noticed?  Not surprising from a cult member.


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## Correll (Jul 5, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...






1. Link to the claim, the most credible one you can find. Take your time. 


2. Tell that to the Korean and Vietnam vets. Tell them how there was no fighting in the Cold War. 


3. YOur words, from right above "if that tape of him saying he grabs "


4. Ah, the topic is tariffs. Forgive me for thinking you might have been referencing it. How silly of me. Regardless Trump promised higher economic growth. And I haven't seen much inflation yet.


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## ABikerSailor (Jul 5, 2018)

Not for nothing Correll, but the cold war was with Russia, not Viet Nam or Korea.

And no, we didn't actually fight Russia during the Cold War.  It was called the Cold War because no bombs were thrown.


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## edward37 (Jul 5, 2018)

ABikerSailor said:


> Not for nothing Correll, but the cold war was with Russia, not Viet Nam or Korea.
> 
> And no, we didn't actually fight Russia during the Cold War.  It was called the Cold War because no bombs were thrown.



HOLD ON RED STATES  Trump will shed your blood



ECONOMICS
Trade War Threat Gets Real as Trump Confirms China Tariffsupdated 37 minutes ago
Trade War Erupts on No. 1 U.S. Farm Export to China
U.S. Industries Fear Worst Is Yet to Come From Trump's Tariffs
Yield Curve Gets Squashed Again With Tariff Deadline Approaching


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## ABikerSailor (Jul 5, 2018)

Well, the stock market tried to come back today, it closed over a hundred points up.

But..........................the tariffs haven't been in full effect yet.  Watch the market crash and prices for things go up when they do.


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## Correll (Jul 5, 2018)

ABikerSailor said:


> Not for nothing Correll, but the cold war was with Russia, not Viet Nam or Korea.
> 
> And no, we didn't actually fight Russia during the Cold War.  It was called the Cold War because no bombs were thrown.





THe Cold War was with the Soviet Union, and if you are pretending to be so unbelievably stupid that you are unaware of the long history of proxy wars, and why, in the Cold War, 


I will pretend to believe you are that utterly, unbelievably stupid.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 5, 2018)

Correll said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > Not for nothing Correll, but the cold war was with Russia, not Viet Nam or Korea.
> ...




Hey idiot.  You spoke of a war with Russia.  I answered accordingly.  Cold is the opposite of hot.  It means a standoff and breaking of relations like we've done until Trump fell in love with Putin after he fucked with our democracy.  As far as Vietnam, I fought in that one and never saw a Russian.  My family fought in Korea and they didn't see any Russians either.  If you're talking about arms sales, that's something that happens across the globe and we do it too.  But now that Russia is attacking us directly, you think that's okay because Trump isn't concerned?  No wonder he got elected with fools to vote for him and continue to support him despite a mountain of evidence that collusion happened on a grand scale.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 5, 2018)

Correll said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
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If that tapes that says he grabs?  WTF does that even mean?


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## DOTR (Jul 5, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> 
> Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs Thursday over objections from advisers and Republicans



  The man keeps his promises. We arent used to that in politicians.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 5, 2018)

Correll said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > Not for nothing Correll, but the cold war was with Russia, not Viet Nam or Korea.
> ...




Hey Bikersailor, when an idiot calls you stupid he's actually just giving up because he can't compete with someone with a brain.  So, wear it like the medal of honor. LOL


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## Wickerthing (Jul 5, 2018)

DOTR said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> ...



The man's an idiot and a clear and present danger to our country.


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## theliq (Jul 5, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> 
> Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs Thursday over objections from advisers and Republicans


He did indeed the IDIOT.......what makes me laugh about America,for 80 years they have EXPLOITED so many Countries,yet when they become UNPRODUCTIVE,they impose tarrifs on everyone...LOSERS


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## theliq (Jul 5, 2018)

BULLDOG said:


> Great. We've been needing a good trade war. MAGA!!!!
> View attachment 179718


MAGA THE CORRECT NAME FOR(MAD)DOG MORE LIKE


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## Correll (Jul 6, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > ABikerSailor said:
> ...





Are your really unaware of the fact that both Korea and Vietnam were part of the Cold War? 



Seriously?


Or have you just talked yourself into a corner and just saying what ever shit is called for to avoid admitting any thing in that single instance without any concern for how stupid or dishonest it is?


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## Correll (Jul 6, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...




It is from your post. I knew what you meant. If you have forgotten, I will tell you.


Perhaps you should not be cutting down these posts if you can't remember what you said, or what you meant.




And in case this is a standard lefty evasive tactic, my post stands.





1. Link to the claim, the most credible one you can find. Take your time.


2. Tell that to the Korean and Vietnam vets. Tell them how there was no fighting in the Cold War.


3. YOur words, from right above "if that tape of him saying he grabs "


4. Ah, the topic is tariffs. Forgive me for thinking you might have been referencing it. How silly of me. Regardless Trump promised higher economic growth. And I haven't seen much inflation yet.


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## basquebromance (Jul 6, 2018)

"the war was lost on trade many years ago...but now we're going to win it, because we have all the cards" - President Trump


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## basquebromance (Jul 6, 2018)

"The trade war has just begun and already, global foreign direct investment into the U.S. from China and other nations is on the decline."


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## Correll (Jul 6, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> "The trade war has just begun and already, global foreign direct investment into the U.S. from China and other nations is on the decline."




Strange. I thought Trade Deficits didn't matter.


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## basquebromance (Jul 6, 2018)

Correll said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > "The trade war has just begun and already, global foreign direct investment into the U.S. from China and other nations is on the decline."
> ...



I understand how the U.S. opposition media is claiming Pres. Trump is creating a trade war with China but most patriots will call this an UPRISING by our country after years and years of cheating and stealing our intellectual property and technology


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## Wickerthing (Jul 6, 2018)

Correll said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...




Hey idiot, I'm still waiting for you to show me where I mentioned a tape.  I must admit that just like you, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about either. 
My words?  Show me butthole.  Tick tick


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## Wickerthing (Jul 6, 2018)

Correll said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > "The trade war has just begun and already, global foreign direct investment into the U.S. from China and other nations is on the decline."
> ...



WTF point is that supposed to make?  You are the silliest person I've ever seen on a political site.  Every word you say is laced with shit because of from whence they came.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 6, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> "The trade war has just begun and already, global foreign direct investment into the U.S. from China and other nations is on the decline."



You just made the point for those who understand the dangers of trade wars.  Don't you even realize that? LOL


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## Correll (Jul 6, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > basquebromance said:
> ...



A common claim of anti-Trumpers, is that "trade deficits don't matter".

Thus, when people post examples of our trading partners responding strongly to Trump's efforts to change the trade balance, sometimes I like to point out that those actions refute that idiotic claims of the anti-Trumpers.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 6, 2018)

Correll said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



I've explained it all to you with examples and you're just too indoctrinated to see it.  Trade wars hurt the people. period.  Inflationary and unwise.


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## basquebromance (Jul 6, 2018)

"a tariff is a tax. it's hurting farmers.  it's hurting companies" - Low IQ Mad Maxine Waters


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## Wickerthing (Jul 6, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> "a tariff is a tax. it's hurting farmers.  it's hurting companies" - Low IQ Mad Maxine Waters



She's low IQ because the biggest moron in the USA says so?  She's a damn sight smarter than Trump and all his cultists combined.  Maybe she'll visit him in prison, try to mend fences. Nah! LOL


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## Correll (Jul 6, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...





So, why are our trading partners risking it?


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## theliq (Jul 6, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> "The trade war has just begun and already, global foreign direct investment into the U.S. from China and other nations is on the decline."


Then PAY BACK ALL YOUR CHINESE DEBT(LOANS)...AND ALL AMERICANS WILL BE LIVING IN MUD HUTS....LIFE WOULD BECOME SO HARD YOU WILL ALL BECOME ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS TO OTHER COUNTRIES...

.GREAT WE CAN LOCK YOUR CHILDREN UP AND TELL YOU TO PISS OFF AND DEGRADE YOU...

AS THE WORLDS BIGGEST DEBTORS YOU SHOULD BE DEGRADED AS A NATION,BECAUSE YOU ARE TOTALLY IRRESPONSIBLE




WITHOUT CHINESE,JAPANESE,KOREAN,RUSSIAN ETC., LOANS AMERICA ARE NOTHING...ZILCH...A FACT YOU SHOULD ALWAYS REMEMBER, PUNK./BOY


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## theliq (Jul 6, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> "the war was lost on trade many years ago...but now we're going to win it, because we have all the cards" - President Trump


I hope you have NO Basque Blood in you,because you are a disgrace to My Ancestors


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jul 6, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> I heard at the meijers they’re paying $15 hr. That’s pretty good


Ugh, that's horrible.


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## sealybobo (Jul 6, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > I heard at the meijers they’re paying $15 hr. That’s pretty good
> ...


Too much?


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jul 6, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


Too little...


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## Wickerthing (Jul 6, 2018)

Correll said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
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They won't be our trading partners if he keeps doing this.  He's an isolationist and he's about to get his wish. It's somewhat manageable now at current levels but he's been talking about a half trillion dollar tariff on china, that will be a huge problem. Inflation will happen at current levels but those kinds of numbers will start a wildfire of rising costs that will effect the working people.  He doesn't give a fuck, he doesn't shop at Walmart.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 6, 2018)

theliq said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > "The trade war has just begun and already, global foreign direct investment into the U.S. from China and other nations is on the decline."
> ...



Yeah, he better hope China doesn't call in the loans.


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## sealybobo (Jul 6, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


Well I’m not a communist. I don’t think people working at a grocery store should be making much more than $15 unless me, a college grad, is making much more.

I don’t want to pay the masses more I want to make the middle class achievable so anyone not happy with $15 hr can find better. But I don’t want every bs random menial job to pay $15. If that happens then inflation happens and soon $15 is nothing


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## Wickerthing (Jul 7, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



I don't think we have to worry about $15 hr for low end labor.  Not with the ADM we've got now.  Trumpers keep saying that his policies will result in higher wages but that's a pipedream.  Corps aren't in the business of caring for workers especially now that we have so few unions.  Higher wages dig into profitability and that's what they care about. I have to laugh when righties say higher wages are on the way.  Higher costs?  Yes. Wages?  NO. There's never been a president in history who cares less about working folks and the poor.  Hell, veteran's benefits are being attacked as is every strand in the social safety net.  I remember Trump's words on the campaign.  "I won't touch Soc Sec or Medicare and I'll be generous with our great Veterans."  "And, I'll cut taxes and that policy will be aimed at the middle class." Gee, he lied.  Imagine that!  Trump actually lied.  I can't believe it. LOL    But Trumpers don't care about that either.


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## Correll (Jul 7, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...




So, it is inconceivable to you that our trading partners might accept more balanced trade as a goal? 


In your mind, that is off the table?


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## Wickerthing (Jul 7, 2018)

Correll said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



People don't respond well to threats.  Usually puts them off.  More likely to see tariffs as what they are, threats.  Especially China who has been our credit union for years.  We have (middle class) more to lose than they do. But, Trump doesn't get the middle class.  We're beneath him as are anyone who isn't richer than he is or more cruel.  That's what he has respect (envy) for.  You haven't noticed?  LOL


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## basquebromance (Jul 9, 2018)

we dont need a trade war, we need a trade truce!


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## Correll (Jul 9, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...




1. Trump's whole campaign was based on, correctly understanding the Middle Class and Working Poor better than anyone else. 

2. All our trading partners are supposed to be so much more mature and intelligent than Trump. SO, what "usually" happens is not to be expected. There are intelligent and responsible and mature professionals. 

Why is balanced trade so out of the question?


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## basquebromance (Jul 9, 2018)

Illinois Steel Town: Trump's Tariffs Secure 800 New Jobs for Previously Laid-Off American Workers | Breitbart


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## Wickerthing (Jul 9, 2018)

Correll said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Are you really that naive?  Trump understands only one thing about the poor and middle class, they are there to be exploited for his own enrichment.  He pushes a tax bill that heavily favors the wealthy like himself while throwing a bone to the little guy and now he and the Ryan's of this world are busily attacking every assistance program that the poor and middle class depend on.  Man, you bought the whole con job, lock, stock and barrel didn't you? Fuckin' clueless people that gave the rest of us this madman-thief.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 9, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> Illinois Steel Town: Trump's Tariffs Secure 800 New Jobs for Previously Laid-Off American Workers | Breitbart



Breitbart?  LOL


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## SmokeALib (Jul 9, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


You must work for a poor person. Or the government.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 9, 2018)

SmokeALib said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



And you must be dim and/or uneducated.


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## Golfing Gator (Jul 9, 2018)

Too Much Pork, Tariffs Mean Too Few Buyers • farmdoc daily


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


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## Wickerthing (Jul 9, 2018)

Golfing Gator said:


> Too Much Pork, Tariffs Mean Too Few Buyers • farmdoc daily
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com



Yeah, these are the unseen dirty little secrets that Trumpers don't get.  They never look beyond the bluster as if world trade was a boxing match.  I've said on here that tariffs lead to inflation but it always falls on deaf ears.  This crisis in pork will be just one of the many things that will reduce revenue and raise prices.  Maybe when Trumpers see their own buying power drop off a cliff they'll understand, but I doubt it.  They'll probably blame it on Democrats.


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## basquebromance (Jul 9, 2018)

Illinois Steel Town: Trump's Tariffs Secure 800 New Jobs for Previously Laid-Off American Workers | Breitbart

The 2K Granite City steel workers who were laid off under Obama are now seeing their jobs reopen thanks to Trump's steel tariffs. About half of the 800 reopened steel jobs will go to those who were previously laid off. Other half will go to newcomers.


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## sparky (Jul 9, 2018)

It's all backfiring.....

https:


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## Wickerthing (Jul 9, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> Illinois Steel Town: Trump's Tariffs Secure 800 New Jobs for Previously Laid-Off American Workers | Breitbart
> 
> The 2K Granite City steel workers who were laid off under Obama are now seeing their jobs reopen thanks to Trump's steel tariffs. About half of the 800 reopened steel jobs will go to those who were previously laid off. Other half will go to newcomers.



Breitbart?  LOL  Talk about your fake news.


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## Correll (Jul 10, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...




His trade and immigration policies, if enacted, will not be "bones", but will change lives, communities, if not the whole nation, for the better.


Those of the Middle class and working poor who voted for Trump, were right to do so.


I note that you did not try to explain they failure of the leadership of our trading "partners".


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## Wickerthing (Jul 10, 2018)

Correll said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



It'll change lives alright, but not in a good way.  The poor or middle class who voted for him were duped and remain duped. 
The failure of leadership of our trading partners?  What does that mean?  I always seem to have to unravel everything you say.  How did they fail?  By being free traders and part of the global economy?  They didn't initiate this series of insane trade wars, Trump did.   Be patient, you'll start to see the results of this soon enough and I guarantee you're not gonna like it.


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## Correll (Jul 10, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...





More and better jobs, higher wages, will be a GOOD THING, for the Middle Class and Working poor.



Their leadership failed because they are risking a global trade war, which you seem to think is a bad thing.


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## SmokeALib (Jul 10, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> SmokeALib said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


Nope. I'm not a Dim as yourself. I'm a conservative.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 10, 2018)

SmokeALib said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > SmokeALib said:
> ...



Well, Mr Conservative, you don't have to listen to anything I've got to say about the Trump Administration.  You can take a clue from two ultra conservative voices in Steve Schmidt and George Will.  Both of whom have denounced their membership in the GOP and Will even said to please vote for Democrats.  George Will!  There's no more influential voice on the right, second only to the late William F Buckley.  Both have said this is a circus and the most corrupt presidency in history.  And they went further in saying it's the most totally corrupt cabinet and white house in history.  Frankly I understand why Trump came to power, because even though it's so obvious that there was collusion, corruption, etc, his voters are still blind and deaf to it all.  But, it was PT Barnum who said, "There's a sucker born every minute."  Congratulations sucker.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 10, 2018)

Correll said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



You don't have to take my word that Trade wars are inflationary.  Look it the fuck up!  It's NEVER a good idea.  Any economist worth his salt will say that because it's a fact.  
What magic potion is gonna make Corporate America suddenly want to pay better wages?  I want to hear this.  Just the opposite is true.  The "BONE" we were thrown will disappear in a rising tide of inflation and in attacks on the working poor, disabled, elderly etc.  Attacks aimed directly at those you think are in for a better deal.  Deaf, dumb and blind are those who believe anything that comes from ol' carp lips. Especially as it might relate to doing anything positive for the middle class.  Do yourself a favor and watch a video entitled "You've Been Trumped"  and you'll see how much Trump cares for the working man.  Until then remain clueless as you are.


----------



## Wickerthing (Jul 10, 2018)

Well, maybe it's not all bad news.  We could get lucky and get a few rolls of paper towels tossed our way.  If that display didn't tell you anything about Trump, nothing ever will.  My guess, nothing ever will.


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## SmokeALib (Jul 11, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> SmokeALib said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


Why would I give a shit about what these clowns think?


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## SmokeALib (Jul 11, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > Illinois Steel Town: Trump's Tariffs Secure 800 New Jobs for Previously Laid-Off American Workers | Breitbart
> ...


As opposed to MSLED? The Washington Compost? Give me a f...ing break.


----------



## SmokeALib (Jul 11, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...


Government check?


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## Correll (Jul 11, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> SmokeALib said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...




NOTHING there but the Logical Fallacy of Appeal to Authority. YOu fail.


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## Correll (Jul 11, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Wickerthing said:
> ...





It is the only policy idea out there, right now to answer generations of wage stagnation.


You seem to accept the idea that the working poor and the middle class just get fucked from now on.


WTF, is that? And why the fuck should we agree to such a policy?



And the way you have to include with every post multiple sentences where you insult everyone that agrees with you, is just you being an asshole. A smug asshole.


----------



## Wickerthing (Jul 11, 2018)

Correll said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Insult everyone who agrees with me?  WTF?   BTW the working poor and middle class have been fucked for a long time and if you think Trump is planning to change that you truly are delusional.  You must be very young to not be concerned about retirement or healthcare.  That's the beauty of being young, you think you're invincible and that the future isn't a big deal.  It's also called ignorance. It was Obama who tried to change all that with healthcare for all but your GOP took care of that didn't they.  There will be no healthcare for those with existing conditions under the GOP.  You'd better hope you or someone you care about lives forever.  But because your cultmasters said ACA was bad, you believed it and supported no healthcare through your ignorance.  Someday you may wake up.  I doubt it.  
Why should we accept what policy?  Again with the statements that need unraveling?


----------



## Wickerthing (Jul 11, 2018)

SmokeALib said:


> Wickerthing said:
> 
> 
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Because they were among the most influential voices of the GOP and they are sending out a warning to those who fell for this madman/conman that he's a danger to our country.  But you don't give a shit?  That's what indoctrination can do.  You're a prime example.  Good luck with explaining all that to yourself in the future. LOL


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## Wickerthing (Jul 11, 2018)

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Where do you get these talking points?  If there ever was a Fallacy or Appeal (appeasement) to authority it's by the blind Trumpers who can't see beyond their own noses.  Do you believe the bulk of what Trump says?  Have you seen "You've Been Trumped?"  It might give you some insight into who you support and how much Trump cares about the working man.  You won't because you don't really want to know the truth, do you?  LOL  Hopeless cultists.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 11, 2018)

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What does that mean?  Do I have yet another poster that talks in riddles?  Say what you mean.  Don't be afraid, It's only debate.  One liners mean bupkis. Nothing to say really, just sniping?


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## Wickerthing (Jul 11, 2018)

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Why?  Because Trump has convinced you that a free press is unAmerican?  LOL That's the root of the problem.  Whatever outrageous things he tells his cultists, they take as gospel.  That's how the Kims and the Duterte's come to power.  You've got eyes, open them.


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## SmokeALib (Jul 11, 2018)

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I'm not GOP dumass.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 11, 2018)

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So you're an independent?  LOL  You defend President Dumbass with every fiber of your being but you're a fence sitter?  That's a good one.  With a position like that, you never have to answer to anything.  Cowardly bullshit and you know it.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 11, 2018)

Trumpers, keep in mind that President Koresh is the dream employee of Putin's Kremlin.  His dismantling of every western trade agreement and his trashing now of NATO is the lifelong dream of his partner in crime, Vlad the impaler.  You don't see it though, do you?  It's so fuckin' obvious that a child could see it but it's all just fine and dandy to you cult members.  Because after all you got a puny tax break.  Well, he got one that dwarfs what you got.  You'll never see what a danger he is to not only America but the entire western world.  That's fuckin' wrong!


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## Wickerthing (Jul 11, 2018)

In the final analysis we will all see that Trump not only colluded to get elected but has many ongoing and previous dealings with Russia.  It will be shown that Trump has been and is so entangled with Putin that he has broken dozens of laws and what he will be found to have done will go way beyond collusion and will be shown to be treason on a scale never before seen.  Hold me to these statements because I really want you to.  What will all you Trump apologists have to say then?  It was because of Hillary?  Obama made him do it?  The devil?  Fuckin' clueless idiots.


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## SmokeALib (Jul 11, 2018)

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I am for anyone who can keep leftist traitors out of office. If that means voting for a burning sack of dog shit to keep obama or clinton out of the white house - the shit gets my vote.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 11, 2018)

Well, you got your wish partner.  You voted for a steaming pile like no other.  Yeah, Obama, you wouldn't want healthcare, right?  You wouldn't want a fix for the Bush economy either, right?  LOL  Clueless and indoctrinated by the far right so that you can't see through the haze of the rhetoric they have sold so that corporate America can reign supreme at the expense of the working man.  That's what you support, whether you realize it or not.


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## Correll (Jul 12, 2018)

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You seem to think that he is changing things. The Political Class in this country acts as though they seriously believe he is changing things. The leaders of our "Allies" seem to think he is changing things.


Trump was the ONLY one who was running with a platform that even MIGHT have served my interests and the interests of my people.


I could vote for him, or for people whom I knew would continue the status quo which has been fucking US for decades.


Voting for a maybe, instead of a certain no, was the only rational act.


When you keep insisting that it was foolish or delusional , that is just you being an asshole.


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## Correll (Jul 12, 2018)

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Let's see that's a dishonest and cowardly dodge of my point, and the Logical Fallacy of Appeal to Ridicule.




> If there ever was a Fallacy or Appeal (appeasement) to authority it's by the blind Trumpers who can't see beyond their own noses.




Well, that's two stupid mistakes, an personal attack, and an unsupported smear of Trump supporters. Oh, and another Appeal to Ridicule.





> Do you believe the bulk of what Trump says?



I believe that he is trying to improve our horrible Trade Policy that has caused so much harm to this nation.





> Have you seen "You've Been Trumped?"



I generally don't waste my time on lefty propaganda. If you have a real point to make, make it in your own words.



> It might give you some insight into who you support and how much Trump cares about the working man.  You won't because you don't really want to know the truth, do you?  LOL  Hopeless cultists.




He is the only one pushing to change the status quo that has been fucking me and mine for generations.

YOu refuse to address that. That he was the only choice that was available to US.


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## deanrd (Jul 12, 2018)




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## Wickerthing (Jul 12, 2018)

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It's not lefty propaganda unless you are so indoctrinated by now that truth is propaganda.  It shows his actions while building a golf course in Scotland and how he treated the folks who occupied the land that he wanted to use for it and the sensitive lands that were compromised for his vanity.  It's just a factual documentary that you will never see because you don't do truth.  What are you afraid of?  Watch it and then we can debate its merits or its falsehoods.  
BTW, the status quo as you put it used to include that we don't collude with Russia and we don't attack our allies.


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## Correll (Jul 12, 2018)

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1. If you have a point to make, you make it.

2. He is the only one pushing to change the status quo that has been fucking me and mine for generations.

YOu refuse to address that. That he was the only choice that was available to US.


3. The Cold War is over. No one colluded with Russia, you red baiting hysteric. Our allies are being shitty allies.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 12, 2018)

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Who's US?  Stupid people?  The Russians fucked with our elections and you think the cold war is over?  Tell that to Putin you moron.  Trump colluded with him and continues to.  There's gonna be a big wake up call soon so get ready.  LOL


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## Correll (Jul 13, 2018)

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1. Who's "US"? Seriously? THE PEOPLE YOU'VE BEEN CONSTANTLY ATTACKING AND SMEARING IE US TRUMP SUPPORTERS. That was a really moronic way to dodge my question.


2. Which I now re post you moron. He is the only one pushing to change the status quo that has been fucking me and mine for generations.   YOu refuse to address that. That he was the only choice that was available to US.


3. Yes, the COld War is over. A few Russian Trolls is not worthy of restarting it, nor does it prove, or even strongly suggest collusion. Putin knows that TRump did not collude with him. The wake up call will be for you, loony tune.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 13, 2018)

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So now you know what Putin knows and you know what he's up to?  Hopeless.  Fuckin' hopeless.  It's people like you who will allow the destruction of our system of laws and our democratic institutions which is underway and is plain to see unless of course you're blind to it because you don't want to admit how fuckin' stupid you were to vote for this madman.  You should not claim to be an American ever again.


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## Correll (Jul 13, 2018)

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A few trolls, are not a threat to our democracy. Your hysteria is just one more in a long line of excuses for you to be a drama queen.


My point stands.


He is the only one pushing to change the status quo that has been fucking me and mine for generations.   YOu refuse to address that. That he was the only choice that was available to US.




YOu are an ass for attacking US for voting for him.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 13, 2018)

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So, you believe that a few Russians were motivated to troll our elections and there was no connection to Putin?  LOL  Every Intel agency of our Govt disagrees with that ASSumption.  I say again, you're stupid.  If you really believe Russia is a friend to the US you are beyond stupid, you're demented.  Someday soon you'll get it Maybe.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 13, 2018)

Hey Correll, 12 Russian military intel officers were just indicted by the special counsel.  Still think Putin wasn't behind the hacking and the fuckin' with our democracy?   Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.  LOL  BTW Trump asked about stolen emails on the very day that those officers began the dirty deed.  Nothing?  Bullshit you idiot.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 13, 2018)

Ben Wittes , a senior fellow at the Brookings inst for governance studies said today that we saw the real witch hunt yesterday with the grilling and harassment of an FBI official. That's for sure.
Does it ever occur to you that it's odd that a President has nothing to say about all this other than to deny it and/or to defend Putin?


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## Wickerthing (Jul 13, 2018)

What's that?  The sound of crickets.


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## Correll (Jul 14, 2018)

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It's certainly possible. Your pretense otherwise is either an indication of extreme stupidity, or extreme asshole-ness.



> Every Intel agency of our Govt disagrees with that ASSumption.




Sorry, their recent track record, does not make them much of an Authority to cite, what with incompetence and bias at ever turn.



> I say again, you're stupid.



Of course you say it again. Personal Attacks are really all you have. Your policies are chosen by some OTHER metric that what is good for Americans, so you can't really defend them.

So you have to attack those that seriously challenge you. Or admit that you are full of hate and shit.




> If you really believe Russia is a friend to the US you are beyond stupid, you're demented.  Someday soon you'll get it Maybe.




That is a nice strawman you have there. It is yours, not mine. I reject your request that I defend your stupid strawman, you fucking ass.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 14, 2018)

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From one fuckin' ass to an even bigger one, what do you have to say about the dozen Russian Military Intel officers that were indicted?  Witch hunt?  WELL, WE SURE HAVE NETTED A LOT OF WARLOCKS NOW HAVEN'T WE.  lol  Your delusional statement that it was just a few trolls and unrelated to Putin has been debunked.  Oh, it's just bias.  It's just fake news, right?  LOL  Your orange baby is goin' down!  And his co-conspirators are gonna take the fall with him.  So, go right ahead and be your stupid denial self because it's not gonna matter what you believe in the end.  Truth will win as it should.  And, lying sacs o' shit traitors will get what they deserve.  Trump's gonna be stunning in his body matching orange jumpsuit.  And you'll be a sight to behold in your new and well-deserved dunce cap.  Hey!  You'll be a cone-head!  Good luck with that, Beldar. LOL


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## Wickerthing (Jul 14, 2018)

This is what you said about our intel community.  

Sorry, their recent track record, does not make them much of an Authority to cite, what with incompetence and bias at ever turn.

So, Trump is the only one to be trusted?  Ask his creditors, his wives, any US bank, the students of Trump Univ., Our allies, Veterans, Charities, etc just how trustworthy he is. 

Then, ask Putin.  He'll say that he's his boy and he keeps his promises to him.  

Once again, stupid, clueless, moronic and blind.  How do you look in the mirror every day or do you try to avoid that? LOL


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## Correll (Jul 14, 2018)

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Mueller's made some more claims? That's your supporting evidence? Words from a corrupt and biased asshole?


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## Wickerthing (Jul 14, 2018)

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They're not claims you moron.  They are documented charges with enough proof to stand up in court.  Read the fuckin' indictments.  You won't because then you'll learn something and we both know that's not in your makeup.  
Suppose Obama had said on national TV that "Russian's if you're listening, I hope you can find the Trump emails and deliver them to us."  You'd be okay with that?  LOL BTW Obama and the dept of justice/FBI/ DNI all alerted Trump that the Russians had fucked with the DNC and DCCC servers and our elections in Fuckin' July 2016. and he still made that request to our enemy on TV on July 27th.  That's collusion and that's treason.  At a minimum it's aiding and abetting our enemy to screw with our democracy.   And you're perfectly alright with that.  No wonder you were stupid enough to vote for this fuckin' criminal.


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## Correll (Jul 14, 2018)

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You really think he negotiated a collusion over national tv? 


LOL!!!!


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## Wickerthing (Jul 14, 2018)

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WTF would you call it?  Of course he did. You didn't see that?


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## Correll (Jul 14, 2018)

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I'd call it a joke. Obviously. 


Because no one conducts a conspiracy over live National television.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 14, 2018)

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LOL Yeah, some joke.  Especially since what he asked them to do they went ahead and did.  I'm not laughing and the Intell community isn't laughing either.  BTW You could say nobody trashes their allies or threatens to exit NATO either.  He berates Britain for pulling out of the EU and then immediately threatens to pull out of our biggest and most important alliance.  And now he says he'll "bring up" the Russia hacking and screwing with our democracy when he meets to suck up to our enemies.  That's a good joke too.  His mission, as President should be to talk to Putin not at all or about nothing but the hackings and interference. And then increase sanctions to drive home the point.  But he won't because Putin owns his fuckin' ass because of his colluding with them and his partnership and complicity in those CRIMES against our country.  You'll see in due time but of course you'll deny it even when its proven beyond all doubt.  That's what cult members do.


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## Correll (Jul 15, 2018)

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Agreed. It was funny.



> Especially since what he asked them to do they went ahead and did.



Got it. You think that if Trump has not made that statement on live tv, that the russians would not have done what they did. THat's pretty bat shit crazy of you.



> I'm not laughing and the Intell community isn't laughing either.



Nope. Both of you seem very upset and not accepting the Will of the Electorate. 




> BTW You could say nobody trashes their allies or threatens to exit NATO either.




I wouldn't say that. Our allies have been shit allies, and NATO has turned into a liability.




> He berates Britain for pulling out of the EU




He should not have done that. lf he really did. Would you like to provide a link to that one?




> and then immediately threatens to pull out of our biggest and most important alliance.




The Europeans are being ungrateful and spiteful children. 




> And now he says he'll "bring up" the Russia hacking and screwing with our democracy when he meets to suck up to our enemies.  That's a good joke too.  His mission, as President should be to talk to Putin not at all or about nothing but the hackings and interference. And then increase sanctions to drive home the point.  But he won't because Putin owns his fuckin' ass because of his colluding with them and his partnership and complicity in those CRIMES against our country.  You'll see in due time but of course you'll deny it even when its proven beyond all doubt.  That's what cult members do.





YOur partisan desire to use PUtin against TRump, is you putting Partisan advantage over the lives of your fellow soldiers.


People die in Cold Wars, and your cold war mongering, is beyond vile.


NOt to mention that cold wars can turn hot. 


Your position is insane.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 15, 2018)

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Yeah, we shouldn't even mention the fact that Russia is actively attacking our system of elections.  We wouldn't want to make Putin angry, right?  Are you fuckin' serious?  I've seen some cult fools before, but you take the cake.  What's insane is to believe what Trump is doing and more importantly what he's not doing is good for our country.  
This is your usual muddled, moronic madness.  Use Putin against Trump?  No.  I want Trump to hold Putin's feet to the fire and stop the meddling in our democracy.  But he won't because he'd bag himself.  You apparently think what the Russians did and are doing is just fine.  You truly are an idiot, aren't you?  LOL  Face the fact that Putin and Trump have worked in concert with one another to fuck with our system of elections. or is that concept foreign to you cult fools? LOL


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## ABikerSailor (Jul 15, 2018)

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Speaking of Britain and the EU, did you see what kind of advice he gave Theresa May concerning their exit?  He said that she shouldn't negotiate, she should sue the EU.  May on the other hand, said that she was sticking with negotiation. 

Just because someone was a business man, doesn't mean that they understand how to run a country.  There is a huge difference between the two. 

Theresa May: Trump told me to sue the EU

*Donald Trump told Theresa May she should sue the EU rather than negotiate over Brexit, she has told the BBC.

The US president said on Friday at a joint news conference he had given Mrs May a suggestion - but she had found it too "brutal".

Asked by the BBC's Andrew Marr what he had said, she replied: "He told me I should sue the EU - not go into negotiations."

It came as another government member resigned over her Brexit plans.

Robert Courts said he quit as a parliamentary private secretary - an unpaid ministerial aide - at the Foreign Office to "express discontent" with Mrs May's policy before key Brexit votes on Monday*.


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## OODA_Loop (Jul 15, 2018)

ABikerSailor said:


> Just because someone was a business man, doesn't mean that they understand how to run a country.  There is a huge difference between the two.




My portfolio growth and tax returns say differently


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## Correll (Jul 15, 2018)

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1. There is no way that the new Cold War that you lefty war mongers are pushing for, would be good for this country.

2. The rest of your partisan blather is noted as evidence of you being an ass. And then dismissed.


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## Correll (Jul 15, 2018)

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1. The people voted to leave. May is doing what she can to over rule the Will of the People.

2. The EU leadership has given no indication that they are interested in half measures. May is a fool to go begging to them.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 15, 2018)

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Wait awhile.  Neither of those things will look quite as good should Trump move forward with his trade wars.  He first talked about tariffs on China of around 100 Billion, then it went to 220 Billion and now he's throwing around the idea of half a trillion.  And, if he thinks he got away with that, he'll undoubtedly do similar shit with our other trading partners.

He's not thinking about the ramifications of all that to the working man.  He's just delighted to play his usual moronic bully role. If he does all that, goods that we working people depend on to control our individual household budgets will cost a damn sight more, Tariffs are by their very nature, inflationary.  Huge tariffs will accelerate that inflation.

It will cause your portfolio, (I'm glad you have one, not everybody does) to shrink and the giant giveaway to themselves will and are causing budget shortfalls that have to be made up.  Guess who that burden falls on.

Trump doesn't give one microfuck how his bullshit effects the middle class and poor.  He never has and never will have empathy.  It's all about his throwing his fat ass weight around and tooting his own horn.  Haven't you noticed that he cares about The Donald above all else?

He's reckless, clueless and I believe he's about two cookies short of a Happy Meal. And if you or someone you care about is approaching retirement, watch how Trump and the GOP goes about tearing apart the social safety net to pay for his money grab. You'll see.  It's simply a matter of time.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 15, 2018)

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New cold war?  Did we miss the end of the old one?  Who do you think is responsible for the cold war as it now exists?  We didn't hack his fake elections, he did that to YOUR country. You don't care?  You just wanna be BFF's with Russia?  Man, and I thought Trump was a fool.  

Those who deny what has been proven beyond all doubt and are afraid to mention it to Putin, folks like you, are committing treason by your complacency and your unquestioning, UnAmerican capitulation to Putin and his boyfriend/employee in the oval office.  

It's fuckin' scary to see just how unconcerned you sheep are.  ANY other President would immediately call him on it, increase sanctions by a factor of ten and refuse to engage him until the 12 indicted officers are extradited to the US to face charges.  

That's what a real President would do.  Unfortunately, we don't have one. We have a criminal madman instead.


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## Correll (Jul 15, 2018)

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Your hysterical raving is noted and dismissed.


My point stands.




1. There is no way that the new Cold War that you lefty war mongers are pushing for, would be good for this country.

2. The rest of your partisan blather is noted as evidence of you being an ass. And then dismissed.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 15, 2018)

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Yeah, Trump insults her, her queen and then tells her she should sue the EU. LOL  Trump has threatened to sue hundreds of folks and businesses.  That's part of his bullshit bluster but he doesn't follow through because he would lose 90% of those suits.  He's a coward and his advice is worth about as much as his intellect. Tens of thousands of Brits can't be all wrong.  He is what that Balloon likeness  represents, a child and a bag of hot air.


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## Correll (Jul 15, 2018)

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Sure tens of thousands of brits can be wrong.


You believe that tens of millions of Americans are wrong. 


That was an insanely dishonest thing to say.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 15, 2018)

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Who the fuck said anything about war?  We were attacked.  You haven't noticed?  LOL LOL   I've never said we should go to war, that's what the GOP is famous for.  We sane folks want to punish Putin for his attack on our democracy and to stop it from continuing.   The way to do that is to shut him out and sanction him to hell and back.  What would your plan to stop his attacks on our democracy be?  Tell him not to do that anymore?  Make excuses for him so that he feels empowered to keep doing it?  Maybe kiss his ass like your hero does?  Great plan there, genius!


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## Correll (Jul 15, 2018)

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YOu have. If you haven't considered the implications of the policies and actions that you are screaming for, you are a fool.


I assume that you left out the word "Cold" out of laziness, not stupidity.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 15, 2018)

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Yeah, you would never condone dishonesty, right?  We should all strive to be more honest and forthright.  You know, like Trump!  You really are a naive moron.


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## Correll (Jul 15, 2018)

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The people of the UK voted to leave the EU. May is resisting her legal responsibility, to manage that.  


She is a tyrant.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 15, 2018)

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The implications are that Putin would think long and hard before doing what he did ever again.  Again, what would you suggest we do about the Russia meddling in our democracy?  Ignore it and hope it'll go away? 
Maybe remove whatever sanctions Trump had to be badgered into imposing by his own party?  Maybe we could just ask nicely that he not do that anymore, right?  Yeah, that'll work.  Fuckin idiot.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 15, 2018)

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She is a tyrant?  Trump is what?  a diplomat?  Man it just keeps getting more bizarre with your every post.  I do believe you might be more than just a little slow.


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## Correll (Jul 15, 2018)

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No, the implications are increasing tensions, a new Cold War, and eventually people dying. 


And of course, the ever present danger of the Cold War going hot.



Do you believe that Estonia is worth millions of Americans dying over?


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## Wickerthing (Jul 15, 2018)

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You truly are delusional.  How much more of this meddling should we just sit back and take?  I know, all of it.  heaven forbid we should call him out on it or punish his actions through his pocketbook. That would be mean.  LOL


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## Wickerthing (Jul 15, 2018)

I urge you to go back and finish your 7th grade education.  And maybe lay off of the drugs for awhile.  Maybe then you could think clearly.  Or, at least think.


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## Correll (Jul 15, 2018)

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1. We've been fucking with Russia for a long time now. Time to dial it DOWN, not up.

2. Do you believe that Estonia is worth millions of Americans dying over?


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## Wickerthing (Jul 16, 2018)

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We've been fuckin' with Russia??  You truly are a stooge, aren't you?  We've been picking on Russia?  So therefore we should not be concerned about our democracy?  Because why?  Russia is just gettin' even?  You have no business calling yourself an American.  Estonia?  WTF are you talking about now?  Where do you get these ideas (if you wanna call them ideas) from?  

I'm done with you.  There is no hope of you ever becoming sane.  These last few posts of yours are the most retarded and treasonous statements I think I've ever heard from anyone.  I think you should put on your favorite shade of RED lipstick and pucker the fuck up so you'll be ready to kiss Putin's ass, Trump's ass and my ass.  

As far as your ass, you couldn't find it with both hands and a mirror. I think you probably actually believe this shit you say and that is about as sad and frightening a thing as I've ever heard.  You'd make a fine Russian but you are a very sad excuse for an American.  

I thought I had seen the most moronic person in the US but partner, you've surpassed your orange god in the clubhouse turn and you're bringing stupidity home in your saddle bags. Wow.  Just Wow. You need professional help and I'm not kidding about that.  Meanwhile, Fuck You.


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## Correll (Jul 16, 2018)

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I deleted most of your post, it was meaningless garbage.


But yes, we have been fucking with Russia. NATO expansion was imbecilic. Putting armed forces in the Black Sea to intefer in the Russian Georgia conflict was even dumber. Meddling in the Ukrainian election? Retarded.


I am an American, and a very patriotic and nationalistic one. But I do not always agree with our foreign policy and I think we bungled the post Cold War situation. 


We treated the Russians like a defeated power, to be pushed around. The perfect course of action. If we were looking for more conflict and war.





[/QUOTE]...
  Meanwhile, Fuck You.[/QUOTE]


No, fuck you, you warmonger.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 16, 2018)

WTF do you think is going on in Syria and The Crimea?  You're worried about the Baltics with this going on?  LOL 
BTW Russia was and up til now has been a defeated power.  But Trump's gonna fix all that, right?  You think Putin has the same goals as the US?  Why? Just because he has the same goals as Trump?  Trump has been compromised and it's crystal clear.  Except of course to idiots. His own appointed Dir of Nat Intelligence has confirmed the hackings and interference by Putin's Russia.  So has EVERY National defense agency.  If there ever was a time to push Putin around it's now. War? We're already at war with Russia and have been for decades and this latest action by Putin is not a holding out of a peace pipe you moron.


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## Correll (Jul 16, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> WTF do you think is going on in Syria and The Crimea?



I think that in Syria, Putin is spending Russian lives and treasure killing our enemies.

IN the Crimea? I don't care. It is no threat to US.




> You're worried about the Baltics with this going on?  LOL




I'm worried about the insane fact that we are treaty bound to fight WORLD WAR THREE over ESTONIA.

That is utter madness.




> BTW Russia was and up til now has been a defeated power.



Sure. ANd treating them like that, is a sure fire way to ensure that they will spend generations fighting to get revenge. Is that what we want?




> But Trump's gonna fix all that, right?




It is not Trump's job to fix Russia's problems.



> You think Putin has the same goals as the US?



Nope. NOthing I have ever said would indicate that.



> Why? Just because he has the same goals as Trump?




I don't know where you got that idea. Certainly not from me.



> Trump has been compromised and it's crystal clear.



Why? Because he is not hell bent on a new and utterly useless and dangerous Cold War? LOL, only a warmonger fool would say that.





> Except of course to idiots.




Your inability to understand that reasonable people can disagree with you, is just you being a narrow minded ass.




> His own appointed Dir of Nat Intelligence has confirmed the hackings and interference by Putin's Russia.



Wow. He* might* have leaked out the truth about what a bitch Hillary was. As though there was ANY DOUBT BY ANYONE. LOL!!!!!!!!




> So has EVERY National defense agency.  If there ever was a time to push Putin around it's now. War? We're already at war with Russia and have been for decades and this latest action by Putin is not a holding out of a peace pipe you moron.




At most we are talking about some leaked emails and some internet trolls. Only a madman or a fool would call that a war.


YOu are literally willing to see Americans die, in order to get a short term partisan advantage .


Your partisan bitterness has driven you mad.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 16, 2018)

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> ...



Ya know?  There are places and people who could help you to see things through a clear mind.  Your indoctrination doesn't have to be permanent.  Unless of course you like being an idiot.  And that may very well be the case. Maybe you could take up something like needlepoint or pottery.  Then you wouldn't have the time to be so stupid.


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## Correll (Jul 16, 2018)

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WE ARE TREATY BOUND TO FIGHT WWIII OVER ESTONIA. 


THAT IS AN INSANE POLICY. 


GWBUSH WAS A MORON FOR ALLOWING OR GOD FORBID, SUPPORTING THAT.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 16, 2018)

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This is the first time I agree with something you said.  W was indeed an imbecile.  You throw the term warmonger around but W and Cheney and the rest of the so-called neo conservatives were the true mongers.  As far as what is an insane policy, you are seeing it every day and you defend it as if it were good for America.  You probably think what just happened in Helsinki was a tour de force for Trump and America don't you?  

Guess what.  It isn't, unless treason and colluding with our enemy is something you think is a good idea. What happened in this summit is the single biggest embarrassment and single biggest show of Presidential treachery anyone has ever seen, rivaled only by the lying us into war by the aforementioned W and Co. And, of course the other treacherous meeting and capitulation to N Korea.

The Art of the Deal my ass.


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## Correll (Jul 16, 2018)

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We are still treaty bound to fight WWIII over Estonia. 


That is beyond madness.


It is not Treason. Try to be less hysterical.


He and all reasonable people, don't think that maybe leaking some e-mails, and unleashing a few extra internet trolls, is worth a Cold War.


You want another Vietnam? Cause Proxy Wars are a likely occurrence in a Cold War.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 16, 2018)

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To ask a Marine Corps Vietnam combat veteran if he wants another Vietnam is beyond madness. And for you to still claim Putin wasn't involved in fuckin with our democracy after what occurred today is ignorant and cult-like behavior that is beyond belief. 
Get the fuck off of your stupid Estonia argument. And your contention that Russia's aims in Syria are the same as ours is further evidence of that ignorance.  Keep in mind (if you have one) that every member of every US intel agency and defense industry has stated unequivocally that Russia not only is behind the election hacking on a grand scale, but that the leadership of that operation is the GRU and KGB and that means PUTIN! 

Someday when you grow up, if you actually do, you'll come to realize just how naive you've been in regards to what Russia is and what Russia does.  And, thanks to our DOJ, you will see what part Trump played in all that. And, you're not gonna like it.  But revealing what Trump and company did is more vital today than ever before.  Expect more indictments in the very near future.  Some more folks you can protect and defend despite the act of war that they and Putin were involved in.  Open those baby blues and those wax filled ears and take that pressure off of your puny brain.


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## Correll (Jul 16, 2018)

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1. It was a rhetorical question, designed to make you realize the cost of a new Cold War. Dumb ass.


2. Trump not wanting a new Cold War, is not evidence of anything except him not being a moron.

3. Estonia is a prime example of how stupid our current anti-Russian policy is.

4. After the behavior of the various partisans after Trump's election, I don't trust them, nor your characterization of what they said.

5. The DOJ has shit, and more shit. If they had anything they would have moved on it by now.

6. None of the indictments come close to proving your sides actual claim, that Trump colluded with putin, to meddle in the election for something. It is all bullshit and perjury traps.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 17, 2018)

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1 That's all you've got, rhetoric

2 He is and has always been a moron, like you

3 Estonia-Bologna  

4 But the behavior of all the Trumpers with bad memories you trust? And Trump the pathological liar, you trust? LOL

5  You don't know what the DOJ has.  If there's nothing to find then why do you suppose we have 5 cooperating witnesses?  Twenty indictments not even counting the twelve Russian Military spies.

6  If you tell the truth there can be no "perjury traps" That's just a Trump talking point and further evidence that you are fuckin' indoctrinated and naive beyond belief.


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## Correll (Jul 17, 2018)

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1. Nope. My point about people dying in a Cold War, such as in Proxy Wars, is quite real. You are the mindless fool ignoring it, in favor of partisan advantage.

2. He wants peace, you want a policy that will lead to more Vietnam's. 

3. Nope. Estonia is proof that our anti-Russian policy is insane. In the Cold War, the Soviet Union flipping West Germany would have shifted the world balance of power. That was worthy fighting against. Estonia? NOT!

4. Your inability to discuss people you disagree with, without calling them childish names, does not support your claim to be the reasonable one.


5. Because of legalistic terrorizing. 

6. That's a lie. It is not credible at this late date that you do not understand that people are trapped by vile lawyers for simple and honest mistakes or mis-rememberings. THat you have to lie, shows that you know you are on the wrong side of this.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 17, 2018)

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That's the reason we have alliances like NATO.  to send a message to actors like Putin that they can't just annex their neighbors without paying a price.  Would you rather let the Soviet Union be reunified under Putin? 
BTW Estonia has a strong military and the support of the entire west.  Not just the US. 
And if you say I want more Vietnams one more time, I'm gonna jump through my monitor and punch your lights out.  BTW I see you avoided answering number 4.  Nice dodge, Hellcat?  And you can buy that horse hooey about everybody around the Trump campaign being struck with multiple memory lapses when it comes to contact with Russians, but that would be just another example of your naivety.  

Legalistic terrorizing?  Talk about an oxymoron from a moron on oxy. LOL  No.  It's called checks and balances and it's the last vantage of those checks since Trump has attacked every other entity that checks the executive branch's power.  And now the GOP is considering impeaching their own DOJ leader because he's getting too close to the truth. But Trump may have finally gone too far with this latest grotesque capitulation and ass kissing to Putin.  
Lastly, no it's not a lie.  You wouldn't recognize a lie if it shit on your chest. Shit, you believe everything that comes form the pathological liar in chief.  Another question you refused to address. 
How you can see and hear what went on in Helsinki and not realize that we saw a pathological liar and a strategic liar in action and somehow glean any truths from that is amazing.  It was quite a showing.  Trump would love to be Putin's right hand man.  And what he would do with that right hand would cause both to have earth shattering orgasms.  One out of hero worship and the other out of appreciation.


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## Correll (Jul 17, 2018)

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1. We had NATO because if the Soviet Union rolled over West Germany, it would have shifted the global balance of power. If Russia rolls over Estonia, that does not happen. 

If we fought to save Estonia, at least millions would die.  NATO expansion was utterly insane.


2. I said you support a policy that would lead to more Vietnams. ANd you do. Cold Wars, include proxy wars. 

3.  It;s not about trust.

4. YOu grill someone for days, you will trip them up on some minor error and you can then threaten them with jail time. This was old news in the 70s. Wake up.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 17, 2018)

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Millions would die?  In a country of 1.3 million?  Are you serious?  So you think to defend Estonia would prompt Russia to launch nukes?  You're delusional.  So it's okay with you that Russia just roll over all their neighbors and gain strength and continue to fuck with our democracy?  Good plan.  LOL

It's not about trust?  What then?  Wishes?  The last time we TRUSTED the words and policies of a GOP President we got Iraq.  So, whether you care or not, it's always about trust and I wouldn't buy anything this madman had to say.

Do you ever think?  I don't see any evidence that you do.  You just parrot every righty talking point you see on Fox Noise.  And they just care about ratings.  Do you think Hannity is a real journalist?  Just curious.  And don't deflect.  Do you think Fox is a legitimate News Org?

And would you finally answer the question of what percentage of what Trump says do you believe to be true?  Probably not. That would require you to be honest.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 17, 2018)

Getting back to NATO and the Baltics.  There has only been a single time that Article 5 of the NATO pact was employed and that was after 9/11 and the aid was for us by our NATO allies.  So, your hysterics aside, there will not be MILLIONS of KIAS because of Estonia.  But, as our allies see us as weak and even complicit to Russian aggression the likelihood of Russia invading their neighbors will increase.  And you can thank your moron orange god for that.. We just have to hold on til Nov when we take back the House and maybe even the Senate, and we can protect the Mueller probe, block the Trump moron agenda and come January, Impeach his orange fat ass.


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## Correll (Jul 18, 2018)

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Are you fucking serious? Do you really think that NATO and Russia would fight a war and it would be limited to Estonia?

That was one of the dumbest posts by a lefty I have ever read. And that is saying a lot.


My point stands. Estonia is not worth a World War, and US being treaty bound to fight one over it, is utterly insane.




> So you think to defend Estonia would prompt Russia to launch nukes?  You're delusional.




If we fight a war with Russia, that close to Russian territory, it would be a blood bath. And what would the goal be? You really think that the warmongers riling you up would be satisfied with saving Estonia? No, they will go for regime change which would require invasion of Russia. Whether the Russians launch or not, that's millions of dead. 

And nukes would be on the table, at that point. THINK.



> So it's okay with you that Russia just roll over all their neighbors and gain strength and continue to fuck with our democracy?  Good plan.  LOL




A email leak and a few trolls are not a threat to our democracy. Hysterics like you that want to use something so minor to undermine the election process is.

And Russia is not going to roll over all their neighbors and gain strength. They are a declining power. Their population is in free fall. Russian nationalism is not an Ideology to appeal to Ukrainians, or Poles or Muslims. 





> It's not about trust?  What then?  Wishes?


...


It's is about looking at motivations and actions. The trolls were spreading division by riling up both sides. That is not about favoring one candidate over another, but spreading division. Putin did not need anything from Trump to do that. ANd Trump was expected to lose. Why would Putin make a deal with a man expected to lose?

That scenario is moronic.




> Do you ever think?  I don't see any evidence that you do.  You just parrot every righty talking point you see on Fox Noise.  And they just care about ratings.  Do you think Hannity is a real journalist?  Just curious.  And don't deflect.  Do you think Fox is a legitimate News Org?
> 
> And would you finally answer the question of what percentage of what Trump says do you believe to be true?  Probably not. That would require you to be honest.





And all of this is just meaningless partisan blather. Screw you.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 18, 2018)

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You are hopeless.  I suppose you just answered the questions I asked even though you didn't want to.  You believe every fuckin' thing that Trump says.  LOL  That's sad.  As far as warmongering, that's the job of the GOP to get us into war so that they may profit from American blood.  You just described the Bush/Cheney years. 
Partisan blather is when you have no idea what you're talking about but you say it anyway because you've been mesmerized by an autocrat.  But that's not bad enough to describe you because you are mesmerized by an autocrat who is an idiot.  Guess what that makes you. 
Just curious.  Did you like what happened in Helsinki?  Were you okay with that?  No warning lights went off for you?  I guess stupid is forever.  LOL


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## Correll (Jul 18, 2018)

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1. I believe that Trump is moving on Trade. I am not happy with how slow he is moving on Immigration. And those are the policies I care about.


2. Your partisanship is obviously more important to you than avoiding War. Trump ran on non-intervention, and it is your warmongers howling for blood that is pushing him to be as confrontational as he has been. 

Times have changed. Wake up to what you and yours are doing. It you get your war, it will be on you this time.


3. Autocrat? Give it a rest. He won the Presidency and doing his job as President. All "autocrat" means is that you wish he was weaker and easier to push around.


4. Helsinki? I want peace with Russia. I'm glad that he did not let pressure from you warmongers push him into some useless confrontation.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 19, 2018)

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Weaker?  How the fuck could he possibly be any weaker? By applying for Russian citizenship? LOL 
You care about Immigration?  Do you care about people?  Kids?  Nah, that's not your concern.  You've learned very well grasshopper.  You've become the puppet of the puppet.  
BTW what Russia did and will continue to do was and IS an act of war.  But we on the side of sanity will settle for doubling the Obama sanctions.  You, know, the ones Trump tried not to impose at all.  That was the single time in this whole debacle that the GOP did its job, by forcing Trump to do that.  But now we're back to them cowering because you idiots support his madness and they're partisan hacks. 
Just curious, was Iraq a useful war?


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## Correll (Jul 19, 2018)

Wickerthing said:


> [
> 
> Weaker?  How the fuck could he possibly be any weaker? By applying for Russian citizenship? LOL




By doing what you warmongers want. That would be weakness, and it is what you want.




> You care about Immigration?



Hell yes, for all the obvious reasons. I take it you do not.



> Do you care about people?




Hell yes. Especially the people who have lost wages and jobs because of high levels of immigration.




> Kids?  Nah, that's not your concern.




Yep. Especially the children of the people who have lost jogs and wages. And ESPECIALLY the children of those living in broken homes due to such economic pressure. 




> You've learned very well grasshopper.  You've become the puppet of the puppet.



I've been here on the issues well before Trump was a contender. He followed US. 

And you are being an ass.




> BTW what Russia did and will continue to do was and IS an act of war.  But we on the side of sanity will settle for doubling the Obama sanctions.  You, know, the ones Trump tried not to impose at all.  That was the single time in this whole debacle that the GOP did its job, by forcing Trump to do that.  But now we're back to them cowering because you idiots support his madness and they're partisan hacks.
> 
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## Wickerthing (Jul 19, 2018)

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So a country and its leader attacks the very heart of our system, voting, and that's not a reason to hold them responsible because Trump doesn't want to.  But we attack a country and kill a half a million civilians and thousands of brave Americans in the process and all for a pack of lies and you think it may reap benefits down the road, and that's okay?  And you call me a partisan?  You call me a warmonger? That's some fuckin' convoluted logic there slick.  

This is why I say you're the silliest and most naive Trumpsheep I've ever encountered on a forum.  Like I said, thinking is not what you do very much of or very well.


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## Correll (Jul 20, 2018)

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1. I've clearly said we should let it go because it is not worth another Cold War, and we provoked them first.

2. The intelligence agencies told him what he wanted to hear. Like they are telling you what you want to hear. Great job they have been doing. 

3. You are pushing a policy, ie punishing Russia, that will led to war(s), without a real reason.  That makes you a warmonger.


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## Wickerthing (Jul 20, 2018)

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I'll talk to you again after Mueller issues his report.  Trying to make you wake up is futile.


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## basquebromance (Jul 20, 2018)

"Farmers have been on a downward trend for 15 years. The price of soybeans has fallen 50% since 5 years before the Election. A big reason is bad (terrible) Trade Deals with other countries. They put on massive Tariffs and Barriers. Canada charges 275% on Dairy. Farmers will WIN!" - President Trump


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## ABikerSailor (Jul 20, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> "Farmers have been on a downward trend for 15 years. The price of soybeans has fallen 50% since 5 years before the Election. A big reason is bad (terrible) Trade Deals with other countries. They put on massive Tariffs and Barriers. Canada charges 275% on Dairy. Farmers will WIN!" - President Trump



Quick question..................if the tariffs are so great for the soybean farmers, then why have they seen a 15 percent drop in price since they started?


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## basquebromance (Jul 20, 2018)

ABikerSailor said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > "Farmers have been on a downward trend for 15 years. The price of soybeans has fallen 50% since 5 years before the Election. A big reason is bad (terrible) Trade Deals with other countries. They put on massive Tariffs and Barriers. Canada charges 275% on Dairy. Farmers will WIN!" - President Trump
> ...


we will win again. we will be strong again. we will be wealthy again. we will be great again!


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## basquebromance (Jul 23, 2018)

tariffs are simply taxes, they're nothing other than taxes. tariffs are taxes.

when America enacts tariffs, it hurts Americans. when France enacts tariffs, it hurts France.


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## Correll (Jul 23, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> tariffs are simply taxes, they're nothing other than taxes. tariffs are taxes.
> 
> when America enacts tariffs, it hurts Americans. when France enacts tariffs, it hurts France.





Except that the other nations that have enacted tariffs, formal or hidden, seem to have done pretty well, as they have taken jobs and wealth from US.


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## basquebromance (Jul 24, 2018)

"Tariffs are the greatest! Either a country which has treated the United States unfairly on Trade negotiates a fair deal, or it gets hit with Tariffs. It’s as simple as that - and everybody’s talking! Remember, we are the “piggy bank” that’s being robbed. All will be Great!

Countries that have treated us unfairly on trade for years are all coming to Washington to negotiate. This should have taken place many years ago but, as the saying goes, better late than never!" - President Trump


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## Golfing Gator (Jul 24, 2018)

Correll said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > tariffs are simply taxes, they're nothing other than taxes. tariffs are taxes.
> ...



Which country that has enacted those tariffs have a lower unemployment rate than the US? 

Which of those countries that have enacted those tariffs have a higher per capita GDP, or nominal GDP than the US?

Which of those countries that have such tariffs have gone longer than 109 straight months of economic expansion?

Which of those countries that have such tariffs have more total wealth or more wealth per capita than the US?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


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## ABikerSailor (Jul 24, 2018)

Well, now Trump has decided that he's gonna help out the farmers by giving them money because the tariffs screwed up their market.  

Wonder where the money is gonna come from?  He's already cut taxes once, so where is the money for the subsidies gonna come from?

The sad thing is that the farmers wouldn't need the subsidies if Trump hadn't imposed the tariffs.


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## basquebromance (Jul 24, 2018)

"The European Union is coming to Washington tomorrow to negotiate a deal on Trade. I have an idea for them. Both the U.S. and the E.U. drop all Tariffs, Barriers and Subsidies! That would finally be called Free Market and Fair Trade! Hope they do it, we are ready - but they won’t!" - President Trump

peace through surrender?


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## basquebromance (Jul 25, 2018)

"When you have people snipping at your heels during a negotiation, it will only take longer to make a deal, and the deal will never be as good as it could have been with unity. Negotiations are going really well, be cool. The end result will be worth it!

Every time I see a weak politician asking to stop Trade talks or the use of Tariffs to counter unfair Tariffs, I wonder, what can they be thinking? Are we just going to continue and let our farmers and country get ripped off?  Lost $817 Billion on Trade last year. No weakness!

China is targeting our farmers, who they know I love & respect, as a way of getting me to continue allowing them to take advantage of the U.S. They are being vicious in what will be their failed attempt. We were being nice - until now! China made $517 Billion on us last year." - Trump


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## Correll (Jul 25, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> "The European Union is coming to Washington tomorrow to negotiate a deal on Trade. I have an idea for them. Both the U.S. and the E.U. drop all Tariffs, Barriers and Subsidies! That would finally be called Free Market and Fair Trade! Hope they do it, we are ready - but they won’t!" - President Trump
> 
> peace through surrender?




How would that be "peace though surrender"?


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## Wickerthing (Jul 25, 2018)

ABikerSailor said:


> Well, now Trump has decided that he's gonna help out the farmers by giving them money because the tariffs screwed up their market.
> 
> Wonder where the money is gonna come from?  He's already cut taxes once, so where is the money for the subsidies gonna come from?
> 
> The sad thing is that the farmers wouldn't need the subsidies if Trump hadn't imposed the tariffs.




Eventually, just like the big tax cut money grab by Trump causing a huge budget shortfall, the bill will be passed to the working man, poor, elderly, disabled, Veterans etc.  As far as the tariffs, the auto industry is already feeling the pressure.  And just like the aforementioned, the costs will simply be passed on to the working stiff. These steel and aluminum tariffs will be felt almost immediately just like auto prices.  There goes the giant tax break we working folks got.  Poof!  LOL


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## basquebromance (Jul 25, 2018)

for Americans, this is the best economy of our lifetimes, all because of one man, Donald J Trump. a global trade war threatens that prosperity


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## sparky (Jul 25, 2018)

b-b-b-but what if Tump imposes a tariff on soft porn queens from slobovania??


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## EvilCat Breath (Jul 25, 2018)

The. EU caved on agricultural tariffs.  The soybeans are safe.


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## sealybobo (Aug 26, 2019)

basquebromance said:


> he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611



He did?

US tariffs on China could cost American households $1,000 per year, JPMorgan says - CNN

Did he promise to cost your household $1000 a year?  LOL.


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 26, 2019)

sealybobo said:


> basquebromance said:
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> 
> > he just fullfilled another campaign promise!
> ...


/—-/ Only if you buy the China crap.


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## sealybobo (Aug 26, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


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Good luck getting Americans who live in a town that only has a Walmart to stop buying Chinese.  This is going to raise their prices.  

Only roughly 15 percent of U.S. imports *come from China*. 

BUT

70-80% of *Walmart's *suppliers were located in *China* back in 2016.

I'm glad.  I'm not arguing that we should continue buying from GINA.  I'm just pointing out that this is going to cost Americans who already don't make a lot of money.  Are you better off now than you were under Obama?  Probably not.  Are corporations?  Sure.  Workers?  Not really.

I don't thing MAGA has happened for most Americans.


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 26, 2019)

sealybobo said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
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/—-/ You don’t think MAGA has happened for most Americans or you refuse to accept it because doing so will give credit to Trump? Orange man bad.


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## CowboyTed (Aug 26, 2019)

Tipsycatlover said:


> The. EU caved on agricultural tariffs.  The soybeans are safe.



Well they didn't... They are just leveraging a position on Brazil...

By the way EU is very poor consumer of Soyabeans... Argentina alone consumes 20% more than the whole of EU...


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 26, 2019)

ABikerSailor said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> > "Farmers have been on a downward trend for 15 years. The price of soybeans has fallen 50% since 5 years before the Election. A big reason is bad (terrible) Trade Deals with other countries. They put on massive Tariffs and Barriers. Canada charges 275% on Dairy. Farmers will WIN!" - President Trump
> ...


/——/ What?


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## CowboyTed (Aug 26, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


> sealybobo said:
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> > basquebromance said:
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The Chinese provide a lot of components to US Business... TPP was meant to diversify that away from China but Trump too dumb to understand...


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 26, 2019)

CowboyTed said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
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/—-/ And the smartest woman in the world, Hildabeast, couldn’t  beat dumb old Trump. Cause we all know Hildabeast had no intention of stopping China from rapping America.


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## Dragonlady (Aug 26, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


> sealybobo said:
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Well, American corporations buy a LOT of stuff that’s made in China so unless you’re prepared to go naked and barefoot, suck it up, Buttercup!


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 26, 2019)

Dragonlady said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
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/—-/ Maybe for you, but not me: All American Made Clothing


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## william the wie (Aug 26, 2019)

I concur with Trump only an idiot use a gradual increase in force when you can do shock and awe. As soon as possible he needs to declare all tech out-sourced from China non-usable in contacting the federal government and also issue regulations that directly conflict with Chinese and EU Regulations. kick em in the balls then knock them to the ground and put in the boot.


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## Vandalshandle (Aug 26, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


> Dragonlady said:
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Sorry, pal. There IS no American made clothing.


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## Dragonlady (Aug 26, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


> CowboyTed said:
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China isn’t “rapping”America! Americans are screwing over other Americans. 

And Hillary Clinton is hardly the smartest woman in the world.  But Trumpest is the dumbest leader the world has ever seen.


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## Dragonlady (Aug 26, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


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Not a problem for me. I make my own clothes. They’re tax deductible because I’m a professional designer.


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## CowboyTed (Aug 26, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


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Your ignorance is shining through... The Democrats and moderate GOP had China where they wanted playing Chess... TPP was to control not only China but also India... I think it goes over your head... Now TPP is going to kick trump in the ass, China will just export to the TPP countries for free and then export to USA... 

I mean ye guys are just fucking dumb... Yes, Trump did fool a lot of people but not most Americans...


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## CowboyTed (Aug 26, 2019)

Dragonlady said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
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Dragonlady,

As a sidebar, there wasn't much wrong with Hillary. She was the most popular politician in US three years before the election.

Don't underestimate the right wing attack machine. It is ruthless and there no bar they wouldn't go under. 

Simply put Hillary would have been a great President... She was the most prepared person in US history to do the job.

She wasn't evil, corrupt or anything like the crap they said... That is crap from the Right Wing attack machine... It is so effective to has the left and moderates believing them..

Think about this logically, what crime or offence has Hillary been accused of which there is any actual evidence? The accusers where allowed to spout lie after lie with no consequences... Freedom of speech maybe a right but it is meant to come with responsibility...


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 26, 2019)

CowboyTed said:


> Dragonlady said:
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/——/ You can’t be serious. Hillary DESTROYED Evidence AFTER SUBPOENA Issued -


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 26, 2019)

Vandalshandle said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
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/—-/ Sure there is. I just posted a link.


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 26, 2019)

CowboyTed said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
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/—-/ The President is always two steps ahead of you rodeo clowns. He is working to remove all tariffs from all countries for a even playing field. So China can move their cheap crap around the world at great expense which serves the same purpose.


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 26, 2019)

Dragonlady said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
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/—-/ OK, that’s great. 2 questions, why do runway models always look unhappy while makeup models are always smiling? And why are the runway fashions so bizarre and outrageous? I’ve never seen a woman dress like that and I worked in Manhattan for decades all around 7th Ave.


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## Dragonlady (Aug 26, 2019)

CowboyTed said:


> Dragonlady said:
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I agree with you on Hillary 100%. We would have had a smooth running machine under Clinton.   I don’t agree with all of her policies or decisions but her competence and attention to detail is remarkable. 

Given the extent of the scrutiny the Clintons have been under for all these years, I’m convinced they’re cleaner than a whistle, out of necessity, if not inclination.


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 26, 2019)

Dragonlady said:


> CowboyTed said:
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/——/ You tool. So smart the FBI called her 
An 'extremely careless' Hillary Clinton: The FBI's damning ...



Jul 05, 2016 · Charges or not, Hillary Clinton's mishandling of sensitive emails is still a political disaster for the Democratic candidate for president


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 26, 2019)

Dragonlady said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
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/——/ Dragonlady, I asked youba designer question on #1742 when you were off line.


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## CowboyTed (Aug 26, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


> CowboyTed said:
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This is your problem... Please look at your sources...  

Web Daily - Media Bias/Fact Check




You are showing why your opinion is highly questionable if you get your information from sources like this...


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## CowboyTed (Aug 26, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


> Dragonlady said:
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So a bunch of Republican law enforcement officers released information on an investigation who wasn't charged.

Hillary Clinton was not charged and was not given the opportunity to defend herself in court. This is why it is FBI policy to not release information like this...

What Clinton is not criminal and if it was, why has she never been charged?


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## Dragonlady (Aug 26, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


> CowboyTed said:
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Serious as a heart attack A$$hat.  Your source is a "Questionable Source":  

Web Daily - Media Bias/Fact Check



> Reasoning:* Extreme Right, Conspiracy, Propaganda*


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## sealybobo (Aug 26, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


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No she probably wouldn't have made that a top priority especially when the economy was humming along like it was before Obama.  

Unemployment was already low.  Lots of other ways to bring American wages up than to start a trade war with China.

Fact is, we like getting most of that stuff from China.  Shoes, trinkets, etc.

What we didn't want was to send manufacturing jobs there.  We should have tariffed the companies when they tried to leave rather than wait till now and then have a war with our biggest trading partner.


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## sealybobo (Aug 26, 2019)

Dragonlady said:


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Your latest outfit


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## sealybobo (Aug 26, 2019)

CowboyTed said:


> Dragonlady said:
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> > Cellblock2429 said:
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And they do that to any Democrat we throw out there.

Kamala is a pot head who slept her way to the top
Pokahontas
Sleepy Joe who fondles women

As if they care about any of these things.  Their candidate slept with women who weren't his wife, said his father was born in Germany and he too fondles women.

They won't admit to being afraid of any of them.  The truth is, there afraid of whoever we run because this election is going to be very close.  The question is will our side get out the vote?

*Democrats won House popular vote by largest midterm margin since Watergate*
Nationally, Democrats have 53.1 percent of all votes counted while Republicans took 45.2 percent.

That's not a poll.  This is who showed up in 2018.  Trump is worried.  Will he win MI, PA and WI?  Probably not, and he needs to.


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## sealybobo (Aug 26, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


> CowboyTed said:
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> > Dragonlady said:
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So did Bush and so would Trump if he was subpoena'ed.  So what?


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## sealybobo (Aug 26, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


> Dragonlady said:
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> > CowboyTed said:
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And do you know how Republicans knew she was doing this?  Because they all were.

The Use of Private Email and Chats, This Time by Trump’s Family, Comes Under Fire

Hey hypocrites how you doing now?


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## sealybobo (Aug 26, 2019)

Dragonlady said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
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> > CowboyTed said:
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And Trump paid women to not tell on him because he knew his cheating could cost him votes if conservative voters found out what a scumbag he really is.  

Turns out conservatives don't give a fuck about cheating on your wife.  They really only care about things that hurt white men.  Conservative female voters know their husbands cheat too.  They are second class citizens what do they have to say about it?  So if their husbands cheat, it aint gonna bother them that Trump does too.

Yes con ladies your husbands cheat.  Only the Bush's don't cheat. The rest do.

And even the best Republicans out there don't treat their wives that good.  Didn't McCain call his wife a **** in public?


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 26, 2019)

sealybobo said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
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/—-/ Ivanka isn’t President or SoS, she can use whatever email she wants. You dope.


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## Dragonlady (Aug 26, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
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> > Cellblock2429 said:
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In high fashion, smiling shows a lack of seriousness.  It's the same with fashion magazines.  The runway outfits are advertising.  Unless you run with the multi-millionaire crowd, it's unlikely you will see any of these looks on the street.  They outfits are all handmade, and cost thousands of dollars each.  I like to look at them for influences, shapes, colours, and just the sheer art of the looks.   

This is my idea of porn - beautifully made piece I can never afford, but I can and have made copies of many of my favourite Paris designer pieces.  Our office receiptionists once complimented my new power dress by saying "Not only does it not look like you made it, it looks like you bought it in a VERY expensive store".  My winter coat was designed by my favourite Paris designer, sewn by me.    

I design for kids.  They're always happy to get beautiful clothes.  I now have grandchildren, aged 4 and 2 years, 18 months, and 6 months, for inspiration and models.  This allows me write off 1/3 of my housing costs, plus all of my own clothing, gifts for my grandkids, and household sewing costs.  I started doing this when my daughter was skating - designing and making skating costunes, because it allowed me to write off the costs of her skating as "advertising".  I sell on Etsy, which gives me a valid paper trail and good accounting of inventory and sales, deals with local sales taxes, and gives me good advertising.


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 26, 2019)

Dragonlady said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
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> > Dragonlady said:
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/—-/ Well fine. Thank you for the insight.


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## Dragonlady (Aug 26, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


> sealybobo said:
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> > Cellblock2429 said:
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She is an unpaid "advisor" conducting government business, so no she can't.


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## Agit8r (Aug 26, 2019)

Do they apply to Russian steel and aluminum?


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 26, 2019)

Dragonlady said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
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> > sealybobo said:
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/—-/ Ivanka didn’t use a private server either: 
Peter Mirijanian, a spokesperson for Trump’s attorney and ethics counsel, Abbe Lowell, told the publication that while transitioning into government — but after she was given a White House email account — Trump “sometimes used her personal account, almost always for logistics and scheduling concerning her family.” That took place, he said, “until the White House provided her the same guidance they had given others.”

Mirijanian said Trump has turned over all of her government-related emails already so they can be stored with White House records.


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## easyt65 (Aug 26, 2019)

While Socialist Democrats continued to preach economic Armageddon unless we surrender to China, China signaled it is ready to talk as its own economy tanks....

Bwuhahahaha.....


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## sealybobo (Aug 26, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


> sealybobo said:
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So could uma Abadean


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## sealybobo (Aug 26, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > Cellblock2429 said:
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Excuse me but any time obama ever met with a foreign dictator they had someone taking notes. Trump is supposedly speaking for us.

But when asked what him and putin discussed behind closed doors trump said none of our business.

Imagine if President hillary told you that.


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## william the wie (Aug 27, 2019)

China has painted itself into a corner.


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## ABikerSailor (Aug 27, 2019)

easyt65 said:


> While Socialist Democrats continued to preach economic Armageddon unless we surrender to China, China signaled it is ready to talk as its own economy tanks....
> 
> Bwuhahahaha.....



Only trouble is, we don't know if Trump is telling the truth or not.  He said he'd had several phone calls with Xi, but Mnuchin said they weren't phone calls but rather "communications", which can be anything from a letter or email all the way up to and including face to face communication via Skype.


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## Picaro (Aug 27, 2019)

william the wie said:


> China has painted itself into a corner.



Probably 50% of Red Chinese companies are bankrupt zombies, kept alive by massive infusions of government cash. They probably have over 20 to 30 trillions of yuans floating around. They never got out that corner. They buy U.S. bonds because they have to, despite the lunacy of those who think their real economy is 'huge'; it's leveraged at some 400 to 1, conservatively.


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