# Keeping the Peace



## Wake (May 3, 2014)

You&#8217;ve probably read about the importance of not surrounding yourself with toxic people. In life you've probably met them. Chances are you may have also been foolish enough to try and get them to stop fighting.

So, wait a minute, what is a toxic person?



> It&#8217;s not that the whole person is toxic. Rather, their behavior is toxic or your relationship with the person is toxic, said Jodie Gale, MA, a psychotherapist and life coach in Sydney, Australia.
> 
> &#8220;Often the person is deeply wounded and for whatever reason, they are not yet able to take responsibility for their wounding, their feelings, their needs and their subsequent problems in life.&#8221;
> 
> ...



What's a Toxic Person and How do You deal with One?

I'm young, and certainly not the sharpest tool in the shed. I've experienced some people in my life who were toxic, and, because of my inexperience and naiveté, I tried to keep the peace.

It was a failure. A complete and utter failure. Every attempt was met with toxic swipes. All while the poison seeped in and affected me adversely.

Enough was enough, so I stopped trying to make their wounds heal, or persuade them to take a hike on the peaceful path. It was just pointless, because they were so consumed by their own toxicity. 

Was it the right thing to try and get people you liked to stop hurting one another? 
A lot of people certainly agree that keeping the peace is the best thing to do, but at what cost? 
What would you do if people you liked kept hurting one another, and when you tried to break it apart you got hurt by them, too?



> Signs You&#8217;re Surrounded by a Toxic Person
> 
> *You&#8217;re emotionally affected by their drama*
> You dread (or fear) being around them
> ...



Those are some of the things I felt while that door to them was open.



> &#8220;If the person&#8217;s toxic behavior doesn&#8217;t change, or the relationship is just too toxic for you, send them forward in life with love and compassion, and then move forward with your life,&#8221; Gale said.



And, reading this, I can understand a little better what I should have done earlier. Instead of keeping the door open and being sprayed with venom, close the door off to people in your lives who are toxic... if nothing else works. Just close the door, and don't allow yourself to be poisoned by the negative feelings and emotions, nor let those thoughts bother you.

Let not your heart be troubled. Life is so unbelievably short, so you should spend it with people who are truly happy, upright, and caring. Whatever you do, don't personally attack them, either, because once they react badly it will be just like tackling a pile of anthrax. Don't tackle a pile anthrax. Stay away from it at all costs, or it'll poison your whole being. 

It is good to keep the peace, I think, but it's better to avoid toxicity in general. Thinking back, my father was a toxic man himself, and it took me years of being away from him for his influence to sweat out of the pores of my very soul. 

Do you agree that it's best to just stay away from toxic people? What would you do?


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## Moonglow (May 3, 2014)




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## Gracie (May 3, 2014)

Oy


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## Wake (May 3, 2014)

Similar to Moonglow's post, toxicity is more about negativity. If you hang around it, it'll affect you, too. One of my clients I care for is a mix of depression and toxicity. He and I both know what's coming down the pike. However, I'm not to leave him, so instead I try to find ways to brighten his mood, or distract him by making him curious about stuff. Like the mantis shrimp.  I showed him that video and he was laughing.

It's about that negative energy. And the positive energy. What and who you're around affects you. These last few days I realized I felt down in the dumps, and I was sluggish, disinterested in things, and snacking a little too much on sweets. It's because I had been letting negative things get to me, and I realize now after all this time that I do have a choice. I can decide who does and doesn't affect my life. So I went over to my elder cousin's house today, and I talked with her and played with her children a bit, and had dinner with her and her husband. Just being around them and just doing something fun and wholesome lifted my spirit, and brought the grapefruit out of its hazy funk.

There are so many things in life to discover and become passionate about. I even called up my other cousin and his girlfriend, and now we're planning to go mushroom hunting in the Fall. When you fill your head with good things, it seems to push out the bad things in it. OR maybe it's because I have a small brain...


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## Michelle420 (May 3, 2014)




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## oldfart (May 3, 2014)

Moonglow said:


>



Don Rickles had the best part in that movie.  Check out the cast:  Rickles, Sutherland, Carroll O'Conner, Eastwood, Jurgens, and a dozen priceless cameos from character actors.


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## Granny (May 4, 2014)

This is a great topic.  I want to make a good response to this from personal experience but I need to get my thoughts together ... and I'm on a deadline to get myself and my stuff together to go to work.  I'll tackle my response later.


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## Wolfsister77 (May 4, 2014)




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## Book of Jeremiah (May 4, 2014)

Wake said:


> Youve probably read about the importance of not surrounding yourself with toxic people. In life you've probably met them. Chances are you may have also been foolish enough to try and get them to stop fighting.
> 
> So, wait a minute, what is a toxic person?
> 
> ...



It is difficult to know what to do.  I try to be kind because they need it more than other folks sometimes but truly there are times I know I just need to take a break from responding to them at all.

  Sometimes silence is the best answer for toxic people.  Given enough time they may think about why others are feeling drained from being around them.  

Sometimes given enough praise and encouragement they become the people they were destined to become too.   It depends on the person I reckon. 


Great thread, Wake.


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## Book of Jeremiah (May 4, 2014)

Wake said:


> Similar to Moonglow's post, toxicity is more about negativity. If you hang around it, it'll affect you, too. One of my clients I care for is a mix of depression and toxicity. He and I both know what's coming down the pike. However, I'm not to leave him, so instead I try to find ways to brighten his mood, or distract him by making him curious about stuff. Like the mantis shrimp.  I showed him that video and he was laughing.
> 
> It's about that negative energy. And the positive energy. What and who you're around affects you. These last few days I realized I felt down in the dumps, and I was sluggish, disinterested in things, and snacking a little too much on sweets. It's because I had been letting negative things get to me, and I realize now after all this time that I do have a choice. I can decide who does and doesn't affect my life. So I went over to my elder cousin's house today, and I talked with her and played with her children a bit, and had dinner with her and her husband. Just being around them and just doing something fun and wholesome lifted my spirit, and brought the grapefruit out of its hazy funk.
> 
> There are so many things in life to discover and become passionate about. I even called up my other cousin and his girlfriend, and now we're planning to go mushroom hunting in the Fall. When you fill your head with good things, it seems to push out the bad things in it. OR maybe it's because I have a small brain...



I didn't write anything yesterday as the day before I had realized I was being sucked dry by a situation that was completely in the negative. For several days.   Rather than ignore it I allowed it to drain my energy and like you I had an epiphany.  Life is too short.  I may have the wherewithall to discuss many things but not everything is to my benefit.   It is best in these days to focus on as much positivity as possible.   I felt sick for a few days over having immersed myself in such an atmosphere and made a pledge to myself to never permit that to happen again.  It's best to walk away.  - Jeri


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## Wolfsister77 (May 4, 2014)




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## westwall (May 4, 2014)

I have only ever been forced to be around one toxic person.  He was the friend of a friend and we used to go to gun shows together.  Toxic person was always a dreary asshole.  One day I asked my friend why he put up with him, and his response was that he felt obligated because they had been friends since grade school.

My response was on the order of, "but, he makes you miserable, he doesn't pay for his own food, you basically have to take care of him....what do YOU get out of the relationship?"

He couldn't answer that.  So a few weeks pass and they meet me at the next gun show and once again I ask my friend what does he get from the relationship.  And this time I asked him in front of the toxic one.  And this time I addressed the toxic one directly and made it clear to my friend that the toxic person was a leech.  A succubus who's sole reason for being was to make all of those around him miserable.  That if my friend never saw him again the leech would take no notice and would merely find some other poor person to afflict.

A few weeks later just my friend showed up...no leech in tow....  He hasn't visited the toxic one in over 30 years now and he thanks me at least once a year for opening his eyes.


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## BDBoop (May 4, 2014)




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## BDBoop (May 4, 2014)

westwall said:


> I have only ever been forced to be around one toxic person.  He was the friend of a friend and we used to go to gun shows together.  Toxic person was always a dreary asshole.  One day I asked my friend why he put up with him, and his response was that he felt obligated because they had been friends since grade school.
> 
> My response was on the order of, "but, he makes you miserable, he doesn't pay for his own food, you basically have to take care of him....what do YOU get out of the relationship?"
> 
> ...



I've taken some grief for quoting Harry Potter, but J.K. Rowling totally hit the nail on the head with this one.



> "Dementors are among the foulest creatures that walk this earth. They infest the darkest, filthiest places, they glory in decay and despair, they drain peace, hope, and happiness out of the air around them... Get too near a Dementor and every good feeling, every happy memory will be sucked out of you. If it can, the Dementor will feed on you long enough to reduce you to something like itself...soulless and evil. You will be left with nothing but the worst experiences of your life."
> 
> &#8212;Remus Lupin



The problem comes when the 'peacemaker' cannot tell the difference between the toxic one and anybody interacting with the toxic one, and tries to treat them as interchangeable.


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## Wake (May 4, 2014)

oldfart said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...





Granny said:


> This is a great topic.  I want to make a good response to this from personal experience but I need to get my thoughts together ... and I'm on a deadline to get myself and my stuff together to go to work.  I'll tackle my response later.





Wolfsister77 said:


>





Jeremiah said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > Youve probably read about the importance of not surrounding yourself with toxic people. In life you've probably met them. Chances are you may have also been foolish enough to try and get them to stop fighting.
> ...





Jeremiah said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > Similar to Moonglow's post, toxicity is more about negativity. If you hang around it, it'll affect you, too. One of my clients I care for is a mix of depression and toxicity. He and I both know what's coming down the pike. However, I'm not to leave him, so instead I try to find ways to brighten his mood, or distract him by making him curious about stuff. Like the mantis shrimp.  I showed him that video and he was laughing.
> ...





Wolfsister77 said:


>





westwall said:


> I have only ever been forced to be around one toxic person.  He was the friend of a friend and we used to go to gun shows together.  Toxic person was always a dreary asshole.  One day I asked my friend why he put up with him, and his response was that he felt obligated because they had been friends since grade school.
> 
> My response was on the order of, "but, he makes you miserable, he doesn't pay for his own food, you basically have to take care of him....what do YOU get out of the relationship?"
> 
> ...



All of you are right about staying away from toxic people, and going where happiness and good-natured things are. It's good for one's health, and it keeps you from being dragged down by torrents of hateful negativity. Like a black hole it draws you near, and tries to make you angry and hateful and venomous in return.

What do you do when you close that door and walk away, but the toxic people don't like that, and so break through and try to grip you even more with their toxicity? As though they don't want you to be away, that they're intent on seeing your spirits as low and toxic as theirs are? When all they want to do is just make you mad over any little thing, and bring you down to their level?


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## Moonglow (May 4, 2014)

Those that have broken down the door have found that I can be their worst nightmare..


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## BDBoop (May 4, 2014)

If the grip is actually broken, then who cares.


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## Derideo_Te (May 4, 2014)

Staying away for toxic people is a good idea and recommended for most people because knowing how to deal with them is not something the average person can handle. 

Identifying a toxic person is not as easy as it seems. Jeri found herself in a toxic situation and had to extricate herself. If anyone has never been in that situation when they are the exception rather than the rule. Wake is correct that it can take years to rid oneself of the toxins from toxic people because they inject their poison deep inside you.

The worst about toxic people is that they drag you down with them and essentially trap you with their depression and negativity. Once you are depressed it is much harder to find the willpower to escape.

There are some good books that explain how interactions work and how to deal with toxic people. Most of them play mental games where their reward is to make you feel bad. These are usually done through guilt of some sort. Guilt because you as a good person are not there to help them out in their hour (make that lifetime) of need or because you have things better than they do and therefore you are the fortunate one and are obligated because of your fortune to assist them. There are variations but that is the primary game and motivation behind it.

Please note that toxic people might say that they care for/about you but that is a lie. They are utterly self centered and only care about themselves. They will tell you things to manipulate you into doing what they want. None of it is to your benefit and it always ends up costing you in emotional, time or fiscal terms. 

Knowing how to break the cycle is crucial for you own well being and recognizing that it exists is the first step. Westwall intervened and broke the cycle for his friend. If you see someone in that situation speak up. If you are in that situation reach out to a genuine friend. Toxic people are never your friend in real terms no matter how long you have known them.

Good topic, Wake


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## Wake (May 4, 2014)

Derideo_Te said:


> *Staying away for toxic people is a good idea and recommended for most people because knowing how to deal with them is not something the average person can handle. *
> 
> Identifying a toxic person is not as easy as it seems. Jeri found herself in a toxic situation and had to extricate herself. If anyone has never been in that situation when they are the exception rather than the rule. Wake is correct that it can take years to rid oneself of the toxins from toxic people because they inject their poison deep inside you.
> 
> ...



I agree with you 100%, Derideo. 

Thank you for your insight.


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## BDBoop (May 4, 2014)

Derideo_Te said:


> Staying away for toxic people is a good idea and recommended for most people because knowing how to deal with them is not something the average person can handle.
> 
> Identifying a toxic person is not as easy as it seems. Jeri found herself in a toxic situation and had to extricate herself. If anyone has never been in that situation when they are the exception rather than the rule. Wake is correct that it can take years to rid oneself of the toxins from toxic people because they inject their poison deep inside you.
> 
> ...



I agree 100%.


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## BDBoop (May 4, 2014)

Excellent article.

How to Save Yourself from Toxic People: 10 Steps (with Pictures)



> Recognize the toxic personality types. We all have our down days, and each of us is prone to the blues now and then. However, when it comes to toxic people, the blues appear to be a permanent state of being and feeling down, glum, angry, etc., becomes a primary personality trait rather than a temporary state of mind. The following toxic personality types are ones to be on the watch for:
> 
> *Angry at life:* A person who is always angry, blowing up, shouting, and reacting to everyone in a volatile manner is a toxic person. They need a lot of help but you don't need to be their battering board. Staying around a person like this will cause you to become angry too, to see slights where there are none, to react instead of reflecting, and to fear things.
> 
> ...


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## Wake (May 4, 2014)

I've learned to stay away from toxic people, and not let their poisons affect me. Anyone who keeps alive malicious contention, whether it be through not letting go of selfish drama, or trying to bring people down and into depression with ill vibes, is toxic. The kind of people who taunt, ridicule, creates drama out of things that don't merit it, and stirs the pot without care or concern for others are toxic as well. 

People like that aren't content to let things go, let people be, or remove themselves from the equation. They lash out at people who simply wanted you to back off and stop, find or create reasons to besmirch your image, tell you to go screw yourself because you refuse to take sides, and use non-tangential issues as tools to hurt other people. Vile, wicked, cruel, vicious, and mean. Pretending to be a good person while stabbing people who refuse to take sides or join in the pettiest of dramas. 

All because someone wanted to break up a toxic fight. But I know better, and it's best to stay away from people who have made it extremely clear that they don't want peace. I had worn myself out caring too much to be the peacekeeper, and it was no longer worth it when all you got was venom and gashes. Sometimes toxic people deserve one another, because they love the contention, the hatred, and the struggle. It's so fun to do and say cruel and wicked things all while pretending to be caring for people. You're neither a good nor caring person if you pretend to be kind yet treat people wickedly behind the scenes. 

When trying to help toxic people fails, you have no other recourse than to ignore them and let your heart be troubled no more. It's better to focus on the good things in life, instead of being dragged down into some dark, miserable place inside your soul. I don't care for it, so I'm shutting it out and walking away towards the people and things in life that make me happy and content. Might as well, while young and able.


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## BDBoop (May 4, 2014)

May you find the peace you seek.


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## Mertex (May 4, 2014)

Wake said:


> I've learned to stay away from toxic people, and not let their poisons affect me. Anyone who keeps alive malicious contention, whether it be through not letting go of selfish drama, or trying to bring people down and into depression with ill vibes, is toxic. The kind of people who taunt, ridicule, creates drama out of things that don't merit it, and stirs the pot without care or concern for others are toxic as well.
> 
> People like that aren't content to let things go, let people be, or remove themselves from the equation. They lash out at people who simply wanted you to back off and stop, find or create reasons to besmirch your image, tell you to go screw yourself because you refuse to take sides, and use non-tangential issues as tools to hurt other people. Vile, wicked, cruel, vicious, and mean. Pretending to be a good person while stabbing people who refuse to take sides or join in the pettiest of dramas.
> 
> ...



It's not easy to identify toxic people sometimes....only after seeing their behavior over a period of time are you able to make that distinction, then it's best to break free of them.
It is true that they pretend to care about you, but in the end they really don't and can discard you in a moment's notice.  Trying to help them is a waste of effort because they don't want help, they don't see their own toxicity and instead turn it on you and see you as the toxic person.  Life is too short to waste on toxic people...instead concentrate on those who truly care about you, are sensitive to your feelings and go out of their way not to hurt you.


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## BDBoop (May 4, 2014)

On another note.


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## Wolfsister77 (May 4, 2014)

Wake said:


> I've learned to stay away from toxic people, and not let their poisons affect me. Anyone who keeps alive malicious contention, whether it be through not letting go of selfish drama, or trying to bring people down and into depression with ill vibes, is toxic. The kind of people who taunt, ridicule, creates drama out of things that don't merit it, and stirs the pot without care or concern for others are toxic as well.
> 
> People like that aren't content to let things go, let people be, or remove themselves from the equation. They lash out at people who simply wanted you to back off and stop, find or create reasons to besmirch your image, tell you to go screw yourself because you refuse to take sides, and use non-tangential issues as tools to hurt other people. Vile, wicked, cruel, vicious, and mean. Pretending to be a good person while stabbing people who refuse to take sides or join in the pettiest of dramas.
> 
> ...



Long ago, after my mom passed, a therapist helped me deal with my toxic sister. She told me, you are the one who decides if someone has the power to hurt your or not. You must not let her have that power. You must find people who are caring and keep the good people close for they are rare, and let the bad ones go, even family. She was right. I had to cut my sister off. It helped her too, to not be enabled by knowing I'll always be there if she did something toxic. She learned she won't get away with that with me. So things are better now. Not great, but I don't let her crap get to me. I live my life the best way I can and she isn't allowed, by me, to get in the way of my happiness. It isn't easy but cutting them out will work eventually. If they don't want help, they'll only get angry if you try. So walking away is sometimes the best option.


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## Wake (May 4, 2014)

Wolfsister77 said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > I've learned to stay away from toxic people, and not let their poisons affect me. Anyone who keeps alive malicious contention, whether it be through not letting go of selfish drama, or trying to bring people down and into depression with ill vibes, is toxic. The kind of people who taunt, ridicule, creates drama out of things that don't merit it, and stirs the pot without care or concern for others are toxic as well.
> ...



You're absolutely right. I'm disgusted by how those toxic people treated me, and now I'm shutting that door forever and not allowing their venomous vibes to trouble me any more. Sometimes taking the highroad is walking away from the muck and the mire, even if it means looking like a coward. As long as I have my integrity, I can sleep well at night, and not be troubled by spiritually ugly people. In time, it will prevail, as toxic people will eventually latch on to others, or themselves and theirs. I did my best, and I have no regrets, and I will keep my integrity intact. 

Mafia's been going well, and is a source of enjoyment for all. I've been focusing on it and other projects in order to keep my mind busy and away from negativity.


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## BDBoop (May 4, 2014)

What sheer perfection.


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## JakeStarkey (May 4, 2014)

Wonderful and provoking discussion.  Makes me think carefully about a situation in the family that will be ongoing this week.

Thank you all.


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## syrenn (May 4, 2014)

BDBoop said:


> Excellent article.
> 
> How to Save Yourself from Toxic People: 10 Steps (with Pictures)
> 
> ...



^^^

That.......


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## Wolfsister77 (May 4, 2014)

Wake said:


> Wolfsister77 said:
> 
> 
> > Wake said:
> ...



Well, that's kind of the key is to find something that is enjoyable to concentrate on. I love listening to music. That helps a lot or getting into a good book. I'm big into gardening so when the weather is right, I'll be doing that. Anything that you find enjoyable that can keep your mind free of anything negative for a short while will help you. It isn't always easy. I have really bad anxiety. And I am more than capable of losing my cool. But, at least I try to chill out for a few minutes when things get bad with an enjoyable activity even if only for 10 min.


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## Statistikhengst (May 5, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > Youve probably read about the importance of not surrounding yourself with toxic people. In life you've probably met them. Chances are you may have also been foolish enough to try and get them to stop fighting.
> ...


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## Statistikhengst (May 5, 2014)

Mertex said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > I've learned to stay away from toxic people, and not let their poisons affect me. Anyone who keeps alive malicious contention, whether it be through not letting go of selfish drama, or trying to bring people down and into depression with ill vibes, is toxic. The kind of people who taunt, ridicule, creates drama out of things that don't merit it, and stirs the pot without care or concern for others are toxic as well.
> ...





I agree with you - time plays a role in all of this.


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## Book of Jeremiah (May 5, 2014)

Wolfsister77 said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > Wolfsister77 said:
> ...



Gardening is good and so is reading a good book.  I'm having good weather today to resume some work outside.  This was a great discussion.   Good read.


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## Esmeralda (May 5, 2014)

Wake said:


> Instead of keeping the door open and being sprayed with venom, close the door off to people in your lives who are toxic... if nothing else works. Just close the door, and don't allow yourself to be poisoned by the negative feelings and emotions, nor let those thoughts bother you.
> 
> Do you agree that it's best to just stay away from toxic people? What would you do?



Yep.  Just ignore them, keep them out of your life. I used to feel guilty about this and would be pulled back in, but not anymore.  Toxic people nearly destroyed me and my whole life at one point.  This is no exaggeration.  After that experience, I just walk away from them, completely shut them out.  Period.  Never again.


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## Statistikhengst (May 5, 2014)

JakeStarkey said:


> Wonderful and provoking discussion.  Makes me think carefully about a situation in the family that will be ongoing this week.
> 
> Thank you all.





Wolfsister77 said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > Wolfsister77 said:
> ...




Sounds to me like you have developed a plan that works for you.


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## Statistikhengst (May 5, 2014)

Good thread, [MENTION=44124]Wake[/MENTION] - sorry, couldn't contribute right away, but glad I stopped by.


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## editec (May 5, 2014)

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Toxic-Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Reclaiming/dp/0553381407]Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life: Susan Forward, Craig Buck: 9780553381405: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]​


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## Derideo_Te (May 5, 2014)

westwall said:


> I have only ever been forced to be around one toxic person.  He was the friend of a friend and we used to go to gun shows together.  Toxic person was always a dreary asshole.  One day I asked my friend why he put up with him, and his response was that he felt obligated because they had been friends since grade school.
> 
> My response was on the order of, "but, he makes you miserable, he doesn't pay for his own food, you basically have to take care of him....what do YOU get out of the relationship?"
> 
> ...





BDBoop said:


> Derideo_Te said:
> 
> 
> > Staying away for toxic people is a good idea and recommended for most people because knowing how to deal with them is not something the average person can handle.
> ...





Wolfsister77 said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > I've learned to stay away from toxic people, and not let their poisons affect me. Anyone who keeps alive malicious contention, whether it be through not letting go of selfish drama, or trying to bring people down and into depression with ill vibes, is toxic. The kind of people who taunt, ridicule, creates drama out of things that don't merit it, and stirs the pot without care or concern for others are toxic as well.
> ...



Exactly right. Walking away is the smart move for both of you. I did the same thing with my entire family at one stage. Yes, it meant cutting off both the good and the bad but I needed to do it for my own sanity. But putting that distance between myself and them was one of the best things I ever did. I established my own group of friends and started my own family on a positive basis. 

When I did eventually reconcile with my family it was on my terms and not theirs. I set the ground rules and if they could not stick to them they were immediately shunned. Interestingly enough the other good family members starting insisting on changing the rules for their own benefit too. The entire family dynamic is far less toxic than it was in the past. 

Let me add the caveat that this approach might not work for everyone. I am strong willed and independent. I could survive without them on my own. That is not true for everyone but distance and time are still the best options for dealing with the toxic people because it enables both perspective and healing. 

Peace
DT


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## Wake (May 5, 2014)

Thanks guys for all your warm words. 

Having put them from my mind I decided to focus even more on my work, caring for people. I was at my client's home today for three hours and I worked off the bad energies by cleaning her house up spotless, leaving no stone unturned in making sure she was care for, and calling the town hall to advocate for her to have the garbagemen pick up her garbage&#8212;my client told me they had been slacking on it. Laundry, sweeping, mopping, vacuuming, polishing, cooking, cleaning the kitchen, filling the water in the CPAP, etc, etc, etc. I absolutely love caring for people, and that's why I am what I am in my profession. 

Upon returning to the office to deliver my documentation, I was informed that yet another family had requested me personally to care for one of theirs. Not only that, but the company has some big projects coming up where they can use for help badly. Big projects are clients that require very extensive help, in which the setting is intricate and sensitive. 

So now I'm feeling even better, and letting it shine through as I go about my business. I think I'll make dinner tonight for my loved ones. Maybe a whole ham from Aldi's in the slowcooker? Mm, yeah, I think I'm going to do that. It's best to banish bad thoughts from your mind and be an eternal optimist. And nothing can stop you from doing that. I wish you all a good day, and am grateful that you took time out of your busy lives to respond to one simple shmuck's post. Thank you.


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## BDBoop (May 5, 2014)

editec said:


> Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life: Susan Forward, Craig Buck: 9780553381405: Amazon.com: Books​



Excellent share. I'm assuming this thread is about real life. It would be more than passing strange to be about people you couldn't pick out of a line-up.

I used to run a forum for survivors, we helped those who were actively dealing with toxicity in their lives. We advised them to avoid boards with toxic people on them, because they already had enough stress.

The point isn't to try and control the offender. The point is to avoid them.


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## BDBoop (May 5, 2014)

Wolfsister77 said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > Wolfsister77 said:
> ...



Same. And I find that my anxiety is significantly reduced by positive feedback (from myself), combined with square breathing. And by positive feedback, I mean an active redirect. "Okay, that's enough time on your deranged sister's Facebook page, where everybody loves her because they believe her lies, and she is SO very good at sucking up. You weren't happy when you got here, and you are visibly less happy now. Walk away. Breathe. Breathe. ...... better? Okay, let's go to Pinterest."


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## Mertex (May 5, 2014)

Wake said:


> Thanks guys for all your warm words.
> 
> Having put them from my mind I decided to focus even more on my work, caring for people. I was at my client's home today for three hours and I worked off the bad energies by cleaning her house up spotless, leaving no stone unturned in making sure she was care for, and calling the town hall to advocate for her to have the garbagemen pick up her garbagemy client told me they had been slacking on it. Laundry, sweeping, mopping, vacuuming, polishing, cooking, cleaning the kitchen, filling the water in the CPAP, etc, etc, etc. I absolutely love caring for people, and that's why I am what I am in my profession.
> 
> ...



That's great, Wake.  It doesn't take long after disassociating with Toxic people that you start reaping the benefits of feeling better.  Doing nice and caring things brings much more peace into our lives than being ugly and hurtful.  Too bad the toxic people don't see it and start trying it...it could change their whole lives.


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## koshergrl (May 5, 2014)

I removed toxic people from my day to day life to the extent I could.

For the rest, I limit my interactions with them to eternally cheerful and shallow interactions. 

My mother is one of the most toxic people I've ever met. I had to actually move hundreds of miles away to limit that influence.


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## kiwiman127 (May 5, 2014)

A good friend will help you to discover the potentials you haven't uncovered. A bad friend will help you to cover up the potentials you have already recovered. Make your choice! 
Israelmore Ayivor 

Words to live by.


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## JakeStarkey (May 5, 2014)

Since we have an adult family female member (married, two children) who is driving across country to get away from them, the above is a greater reminder as well as some great tools in helping her help herself (if that's what she wants).  Two other family female adults are having back operations in widely separated locations from each other as well as Salt Lake City.

So good thoughts and or prayers to everyone for this day and every day.


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## BDBoop (May 5, 2014)

JakeStarkey said:


> Since we have an adult family female member (married, two children) who is driving across country to get away from them, the above is a greater reminder as well as some great tools in helping her help herself (if that's what she wants).  Two other family female adults are having back operations in widely separated locations from each other as well as Salt Lake City.
> 
> So good thoughts and or prayers to everyone for this day and every day.



In the act of actively disengaging, I remember - my vocabulary would shrink by a massive amount. Fight or flight in play, no doubt. I would wind up saying "I can't do this," and just walking away. If I was pursued, I was generally reduced to tears, so that's when I stopped answering the phone or the door, or opening mail (my mother wrote some hellish curses - literal curses - that I am still occasionally having to work on removing from my memory.)

In time, people learned I was no longer available for scapegoating - or anything else, really. I was broken, and I was done. Just done. Fortunately, there is a truth that helped with healing, and that is that I am one who is blessed to be stronger at the broken places.


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## Wake (May 5, 2014)

More bad vibes are dissipating, so that's a good thing for everyone in general. Toxicity is contagious, deceitful, and cruel. If you stay away from it, and don't feed the trolls you'll meet in life, you will keep your integrity intact. If it is hopeless, stay away from toxic people, and enjoy your life with loved ones and good people while you still can.


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## Mertex (May 5, 2014)

Wake said:


> More bad vibes are dissipating, so that's a good thing for everyone in general. Toxicity is contagious, deceitful, and cruel. If you stay away from it, and don't feed the trolls you'll meet in life, you will keep your integrity intact. If it is hopeless, stay away from toxic people, and enjoy your life with loved ones and good people while you still can.




Good advice, although sometimes they end up doing themselves more harm than the people they want to hurt....


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## Moonglow (May 5, 2014)

I refuse to be subjected to it or join in the fray....


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## Statistikhengst (May 5, 2014)

A serious thought I want to throw out there: I mean, I can't think of a person who is born to be toxic. He or she learns it with time.

One good question would be: why?


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## Derideo_Te (May 5, 2014)

westwall said:


> I have only ever been forced to be around one toxic person.  He was the friend of a friend and we used to go to gun shows together.  Toxic person was always a dreary asshole.  One day I asked my friend why he put up with him, and his response was that he felt obligated because they had been friends since grade school.
> 
> My response was on the order of, "but, he makes you miserable, he doesn't pay for his own food, you basically have to take care of him....what do YOU get out of the relationship?"
> 
> ...





BDBoop said:


> Derideo_Te said:
> 
> 
> > Staying away for toxic people is a good idea and recommended for most people because knowing how to deal with them is not something the average person can handle.
> ...





Wake said:


> More bad vibes are dissipating, so that's a good thing for everyone in general. Toxicity is contagious, deceitful, and cruel. If you stay away from it, and don't feed the trolls you'll meet in life, you will keep your integrity intact. If it is hopeless, stay away from toxic people, and enjoy your life with loved ones and good people while you still can.



Just an FYI. If you really want to stay away for toxic people you should avoid the FZ as much as possible. There are more toxic people per post in this area of USMB than the rest of it combined in my opinion. And that goes across the entire spectrum of posters. Not singling anyone or any side out. Just my observation that the FZ has the highest concentration of toxicity.

I still venture down here and read some posts and make the occasional one too. But that is the exception rather than the rule. My personal rule is to abstain from getting involved down here. I don't care what anyone posts about me down here because I take it from whence it comes. I don't feel any need to defend myself or anyone else in this area. 

I just walk away from it all because (a) I don't need the drama, and (b) anyone trying to bring you down is already beneath you to begin with. 

Just my 2 cents. No offense intended to anyone personally. Just my honest opinion. 

Peace
DT


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## Wolfsister77 (May 5, 2014)

Derideo_Te said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > I have only ever been forced to be around one toxic person.  He was the friend of a friend and we used to go to gun shows together.  Toxic person was always a dreary asshole.  One day I asked my friend why he put up with him, and his response was that he felt obligated because they had been friends since grade school.
> ...



Very true but what if you want to go there and laugh.


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## R.D. (May 5, 2014)

Wolfsister77 said:


> Derideo_Te said:
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> 
> > westwall said:
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Which brings up the fact that toxic people have no clue they're toxic.   Not naming any names,  but many posting on this thread are considered toxic to many others.    They bait, demean, insult and lie all the whoe telling others how to behave.   

You can remove yourself from a situation, but you cannot fix other people


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## Derideo_Te (May 5, 2014)

Wolfsister77 said:


> Derideo_Te said:
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> > westwall said:
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Nothing stopping you from doing so but the moment you participate you validate the toxic people by giving them your attention. Laugh all you want but refrain from posting in their threads that you are laughing. That way you deny them what they are seeking which is your attention.


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## Derideo_Te (May 5, 2014)

R.D. said:


> Wolfsister77 said:
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> > Derideo_Te said:
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Agreed, you cannot fix them because the only ones who can do that are the toxic people themselves. They have no incentive to fix themselves as long as their behavior is rewarded by your attention. Deny them that attention and refuse to give them any until they alter their behavior and then they will have an incentive to change themselves.


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## Gracie (May 5, 2014)

Reading this has helped very much today. Thanks, guys.

I think it is time to put many toxic people on ignore. The more one stays in a poison well, the more poisoned one becomes themselves. There ARE such things as vampires. Not blood sucking ones. Energy sucking ones. They feed off your own positive energies and then you become a wasted negative producing machine.

Wear a cross. Stay away from FZ. Put on ignore those who prance around in your face waving their arms furiously to get your attention or ANYONE'S attention. And when it gets to you or you got sucked, turn to your friends to fill you back up with positive energy again.


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## R.D. (May 5, 2014)

Derideo_Te said:


> R.D. said:
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> 
> > Wolfsister77 said:
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I'm not  sure I agree.  Why should they change? Because some others don't like it?  They're not interested in who doesn't care.  And those who don't like it, but butt in, are fodder for their game.    They thrive off eachother, they enjoy it and  are not aware.   Again, just taking USMB for example, we've seen them go after certain posters only to back off and eventually become nice  when their game didnt work.   Or they turn on eachother, only creating even more crap to piss and moan about for all to see.

 Watching the train wreck is just a human nature to some and amusing. Others not so much, they  ignore them. They are not toxic to these two groups.

Outside the interwebs the same applies.   Leave or understand their game and grow a thicker skin


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## Gracie (May 5, 2014)

Speaking of.....

Sometimes talking to people to make them "understand" doesn't work. They just get angry because they stay angry at whatever. So....I did an experiment once to avoid a confrontation with tenants I had years ago when I was managing in West Covina. HUGE property. We had a nice garden area with pathways, night lamps, benches hither and yon and surrounded by flowers, bushes, and just beautiful plants everywhere. They would follow the cement path, but they also cut through the garden area, stepping on delicate flora and fauna. So..knowing most people follow without even thinking about it...I got some stepping stones and placed them close together, cutting through the garden. Then I watched from my window. The people would come home from work, cut through, but make sure each step was ON the stepping stones. Hmmm. Interesting. So after a few days, I went out there and moved the stepping stones until they were further apart and difficult to navigate easily. They came home, and stretched their legs far enough so their toes would be ON the stepping stones. They didn't even realize they were doing it. So the following days, I moved them back closer again, two by two, for easy passage. It worked out fine. They began to use that path, ON the stones, when not using the cement walkway.

Lesson learned? People will follow the easiest path and not even know they are doing it and confrontations can be avoided when some are determined to stomp on flowers instead of going the path hardest for them. They want the easy way..and the easy way can be pleasant if it is handled correctly.


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## syrenn (May 5, 2014)

Derideo_Te said:


> R.D. said:
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> > Wolfsister77 said:
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The problem is when the toxic people ....don't know they are toxic. Its of course...everyone else, just not them. 

I find it rather funny to ignore them... they just spew more toxic. A win win as far as i am concerned


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## Derideo_Te (May 5, 2014)

syrenn said:


> Derideo_Te said:
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> > R.D. said:
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You bring up a good point, Syrenn. Most of the toxic people are not aware that they are toxic. They either lack empathy for others or they are simply not sufficiently self aware to appreciate how they come across. There is a inherent selfishness and childishness about them. As you observed when ignored they throw temper tantrums in order to gain attention. That is an immature response from a grown adult but inside them there is an undisciplined and selfish child in my opinion.


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## Gracie (May 5, 2014)

The FZ is their playground.


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## Wake (May 5, 2014)

The best thing to do is to not taunt others. Don't respond to attacks, while being the bigger adult. It's not a game, because there are no winners when people fight malevolently over the pettiest of things. No one is perfect, either. Least of all me. It doesn't feel good to be cruel, or to try and make others suffer. To make them feel miserable. Sometimes the best thing is to do nothing in response, and then find better places and people.


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## Gracie (May 5, 2014)

This place is where I enjoy being at, wake. And the majority of people are the better than anywhere else, to ME. Yes, there are many great places on the net. Lots of great people too. But here is where i want to stay and plan to stay. Sometimes everyone just needs a break now and then. So...when I need one, I go somewhere else. 

There has to be a happy medium. Each person has to find it for themselves. Mine is to avoid negative petri dish forums, and put on ignore those that never have anything decent to say. Not saying everyone should do that. Just saying I choose to do that.


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## Wake (May 5, 2014)

Gracie said:


> This place is where I enjoy being at, wake. And the majority of people are the better than anywhere else, to ME. Yes, there are many great places on the net. Lots of great people too. But here is where i want to stay and plan to stay. Sometimes everyone just needs a break now and then. So...when I need one, I go somewhere else.
> 
> There has to be a happy medium. Each person has to find it for themselves. Mine is to avoid negative petri dish forums, and put on ignore those that never have anything decent to say. Not saying everyone should do that. Just saying I choose to do that.



If you're open to repairing our bridge together, you may send a PM to talk on this further.


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## R.D. (May 5, 2014)

Wake said:


> The best thing to do is to not taunt others. Don't respond to attacks, while being the bigger adult. It's not a game, because there are no winners when people fight malevolently over the pettiest of things. No one is perfect, either. Least of all me. It doesn't feel good to be cruel, or to try and make others suffer. To make them feel miserable. Sometimes the best thing is to do nothing in response, and then find better places and people.



With all due respect, Wake, you're wrong.  It _is_ a game.  

You're still trying to fix a problem you claim effects everyone, it doesn't.   No one is forced to participate.  If you don't like certain players, just ignore them.   Unfortunately you've ended up in the mud with these folks because you tried o "fix" them...no one wants someone to stroll in and try to fix them.  It creates more hostility.


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## Luddly Neddite (May 5, 2014)

Wolfsister77 said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > I've learned to stay away from toxic people, and not let their poisons affect me. Anyone who keeps alive malicious contention, whether it be through not letting go of selfish drama, or trying to bring people down and into depression with ill vibes, is toxic. The kind of people who taunt, ridicule, creates drama out of things that don't merit it, and stirs the pot without care or concern for others are toxic as well.
> ...



I have left abusive relationships (mother and spouse) but I finally had to cut off all contact with my siblings as well. I can't help them and they'll only keep on dragging me down just as they have our whole lives. 

Its not just that it can be hard to identify toxic people. For some of us, its hard to believe we deserve to be treated better. 

I have said before that it took me 60 years to get it right and its true. I have a perfect life now. I finally have what I have worked for my whole life. I allowed those people to treat me like crap and I never will again.  No more guilting me into helping them, giving them money. No more letting them suck the life out of me.


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## Luddly Neddite (May 5, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> A serious thought I want to throw out there: I mean, I can't think of a person who is born to be toxic. He or she learns it with time.
> 
> One good question would be: why?



If you ever want to hear a truly heartbreaking story, I'll tell you about my mother's life. 

That's the same mother who, daily, beat me, kicked me, put cigarettes on me and more.

Something else I've thought is -

If the people we've described as "toxic" read this thread, they would say the same as we have said here - that they have been victimized by toxic people.


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## Gracie (May 5, 2014)

Wake said:


> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> > This place is where I enjoy being at, wake. And the majority of people are the better than anywhere else, to ME. Yes, there are many great places on the net. Lots of great people too. But here is where i want to stay and plan to stay. Sometimes everyone just needs a break now and then. So...when I need one, I go somewhere else.
> ...



The bridge was untied at this end but never broken. With that said, I apprecaite some of the things you say. Some I don't. I prefer to speak in public just as we are doing right now. Nothing secret or "behind the scenes" about it and I prefer it that way.


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## Luddly Neddite (May 5, 2014)

Derideo_Te said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > I have only ever been forced to be around one toxic person.  He was the friend of a friend and we used to go to gun shows together.  Toxic person was always a dreary asshole.  One day I asked my friend why he put up with him, and his response was that he felt obligated because they had been friends since grade school.
> ...



Why is it that some people need to be so nasty here? None of them would talk like that face to face but they don't hesitate here. Why is that?

One thing that seems to be universal among abusers is that they can be charming and good to some people while being vile and vicious to others. And none of them will be abusive to anyone they believe can give it back to them in kind. 

I leave this board every so often when I find that I'm getting nasty and rude. I don't want to be so lazy that I use name calling and foul language instead of intellect.


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## Gracie (May 5, 2014)

Luddly...there are toxic people and there are abusive people and there are insane people. You mother sounds like all three. So was my mother. All three. My sister is just toxic. It is the results of my mother poisoning HER and her outlook on life. I ran the other way. My sister stayed.

We all feel certain people are toxic and take steps to avoid them in real life. We need to do the same thing with online people. It's harder to do because you don't know they are toxic until you are already friends with them. And by then, you have been sucked dry and either become an energy sucking hateful vampire, or you try to run as fast as you can with them snapping at your heels.

Do what you can to protect yourself. That's all you CAN do.


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## Gracie (May 5, 2014)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Derideo_Te said:
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> 
> > westwall said:
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1. Because they can. They are behind a monitor.

2. Insecurities. No empathy. No compassion. 

3. Me too. Other places let me be at peace and able to recharge my batteries and be who I want to be and the poison that seeped into my bones to wear off.


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## Luddly Neddite (May 5, 2014)

Gracie said:


> Luddly...there are toxic people and there are abusive people and there are insane people. You mother sounds like all three. So was my mother. All three. My sister is just toxic. It is the results of my mother poisoning HER and her outlook on life. I ran the other way. My sister stayed.
> 
> We all feel certain people are toxic and take steps to avoid them in real life. We need to do the same thing with online people. It's harder to do because you don't know they are toxic until you are already friends with them. And by then, you have been sucked dry and either become an energy sucking hateful vampire, or you try to run as fast as you can with them snapping at your heels.
> 
> Do what you can to protect yourself. That's all you CAN do.



Thank you but I'm quite healthy - mentally and physically. I have taken some real shit in my life and I'm stronger for it.


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## Luddly Neddite (May 5, 2014)

Gracie said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Derideo_Te said:
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I should have made it clear that those are rhetorical questions and not asking for actual answers.


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## Luddly Neddite (May 5, 2014)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Gracie said:
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> 
> > Luddly Neddite said:
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BTW, the biggest reason for all abuse is fear. 

Those who write the worst here are the most fearful in their everyday lives.


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## Granny (May 5, 2014)

I had a toxic mother and it took me years to get myself to a place where I could become at least a reasonably whole person.  I often thought over the years that I could forgive her if I thought she was mentally ill, but the truth is she was just mean. I spent my pre-school years in isolation - no kids to play with ... and I can clearly remember looking out across the road at this place where all these children were outside playing.  I can remember in my older years my mother saying, in this voice intonement that I don't know how to describe, "You was so desperate for somebody to play with you'd even play with them little pickaninnies that came by when their parents came to buy flowers to sell."

I'll never know the truth about why I was put in an orphanage at age 7 - anytime I brought the subject up I'd be met with stone silence - and that silence spoke volumes. I didn't see my family that much during those years and I could never figure out why I was sent to one 120 miles from home when there were 3 orphanages right there in the city where we lived - all of them accessible by public transportation.

I have some memory loss about some things - I know I got one hell of a beating at the orphanage and I don't have a clue who gave me that beating or why - I only remember the aftermath.  I learned to stifle my emotions, not to cry, only to laugh when appropriate and then very quietly.  I was suicidal as a teenager, when I didn't think there was no other way out - and, ironically enough, it was the kids at the orphanage who always pulled me through:  I couldn't let them find out that the "bad guys" finally got to me!!  I didn't quite realize it at the time, but those kids were my brothers and sisters - and we reunited as a group some 30 years after the fact and it was just like we had seen each other "yesterday". We took up right where we left off so many years ago - and, oh, the stories we told during that reunion.

The nightmares and absolute fear started in when I returned to live with my mother and stopped "just like that" when I graduated HS and left home.  The only real hangover I still have is that I HAVE to have covers on me when I sleep because it's the only way I feel safe.

I had a couple mental breakdowns along the way, one of which was a doozie, but I've gotten through it.  Somehow, I managed to raise three truly great children who I am so proud of.  I'm not quite sure how - I know I made mistakes along the way - but I think I had some sort of subconscious thought to do the opposite of what my mother did. I do remember at some point while under her roof making the decision that I did not want to be like her when I grew up.  I also owe a great deal of thanks to my late in-laws.  I was never allowed to see my grandparents - a promise my mother made to them.  And that was a huge factor in making sure my children saw their grandparents.  They spent all their summers living with their grandparents and getting a real sense of family. Even though their dad and I divorced I always remained a member of their family and love them all to this day.  

Toxicity is a killer and anyone who can get away from it should do that as soon as possible.  Don't walk - RUN!!!


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## Gracie (May 5, 2014)

at you Granny.

You did good. You are stronger than you think. And I am sorry you, too, experienced that with the very person who should have protected you and loved you. Your mother.
Some are just not cut out to give birth. Ours were in that category.
I won't go into detail (weaponry by data miners and archivers), but I can feel your pain. But..like I said...you made it. Keep those covers over your head. We all need a sanctuary. For me..it's my dogs. And being alone in the garden. Just me and the animals. They have no hatred for me.


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## Luddly Neddite (May 5, 2014)

Granny said:


> I had a toxic mother and it took me years to get myself to a place where I could become at least a reasonably whole person.  I often thought over the years that I could forgive her if I thought she was mentally ill, but the truth is she was just mean. I spent my pre-school years in isolation - no kids to play with ... and I can clearly remember looking out across the road at this place where all these children were outside playing.  I can remember in my older years my mother saying, in this voice intonement that I don't know how to describe, "You was so desperate for somebody to play with you'd even play with them little pickaninnies that came by when their parents came to buy flowers to sell."
> 
> I'll never know the truth about why I was put in an orphanage at age 7 - anytime I brought the subject up I'd be met with stone silence - and that silence spoke volumes. I didn't see my family that much during those years and I could never figure out why I was sent to one 120 miles from home when there were 3 orphanages right there in the city where we lived - all of them accessible by public transportation.
> 
> ...


 [MENTION=21926]Granny[/MENTION] - I'm sad for you because it sounds a lot like my own childhood. I don't know whether my mother was crazy or just mean but she hated me from the day I was born. She used to say that if she had known about abortion in 1946, I wouldn't be here now. She always wanted to make me cry. She would just keep hitting and hitting, trying to make me cry. So now I just don't. Can't. 

After a childhood of beatings and being burned with cigarettes, I came home from school on my 16th birthday to find the door locked and my things thrown in the front yard. So, I was homeless, no money, no home, waited tables and lived over the cafe in a tiny town and no one at school had any idea.  After I was in an accident that crushed the bottom half of my face, the authorities made my family take me be for a few months but I've worked since I was 13 and been on my own since 16. 

I had 4 siblings, none of whom were abused or mistreated. 

On my mother's deathbed, she had someone else call me. She told me she was sorry she had been such a bad mother. I remember going cold and shaking and quietly hanging up the phone. I didn't go to her funeral.


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## Esmeralda (May 5, 2014)

Wolfsister77 said:


> Derideo_Te said:
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> > westwall said:
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The FZ can be like a soap opera. I don't post in it when it's like that, and have very seldom posted in it anyway, but when it's a downright soap opera, it's more like entertainment than anything else.  After a point, though, it gets kind of noxious and Jerry Springerish.


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## Grandma (May 5, 2014)

Derideo_Te said:


> Just an FYI. If you really want to stay away for toxic people you should avoid the FZ as much as possible. There are more toxic people per post in this area of USMB than the rest of it combined in my opinion. And that goes across the entire spectrum of posters. Not singling anyone or any side out. Just my observation that the FZ has the highest concentration of toxicity.
> 
> I still venture down here and read some posts and make the occasional one too. But that is the exception rather than the rule. My personal rule is to abstain from getting involved down here. I don't care what anyone posts about me down here because I take it from whence it comes. I don't feel any need to defend myself or anyone else in this area.
> 
> ...



Not just the Flame Zone, but the Rubber Room and Badlands too.

Some of the threads are started there, but a lot are sent down from other forums upstairs because they're - _toxic._ 

I read most of the junk there, I'll add in comments too. Why? Because I think it's a good idea to keep an eye on some of those people. I find it very strange that some members post only down there and avoid the rest of the USMB. 

After rolling around in the waste down there I like to come up to the Lounge to relax and clean off the slimy residue.


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## Gracie (May 5, 2014)

And in the pets thread. Rat decided to come shit on my Pretties thread and said "the THINGS are dead", referring to my cat and dog.


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## Mertex (May 5, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> Wolfsister77 said:
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> > Derideo_Te said:
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It sure is - reminds me of the squabbles we used to have in Jr. high.  I guess those that start hateful threads in the FZ are still stuck in their Jr. high school days....but i think they believe their comments are very intelligent and make a lot of sense, not realizing just how hateful and sophomoric they really sound.


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## Mertex (May 5, 2014)

Gracie said:


> And in the pets thread. Rat decided to come shit on my Pretties thread and said "the THINGS are dead", referring to my cat and dog.



Sometimes you just have to consider the source, and ignore it for it's not worth giving much thought someone like that.


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## Gracie (May 5, 2014)

I don't go to where they roll in shit. They come to pull their pants down where I am. And yes, I consider the source. Just saying it isn't just the FZ. That pack goes everywhere, ready to squat.

Kinda hard to talk about and practice peace when no matter where one turns, there they are.


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## Esmeralda (May 6, 2014)

Grandma said:


> Derideo_Te said:
> 
> 
> > Just an FYI. If you really want to stay away for toxic people you should avoid the FZ as much as possible. There are more toxic people per post in this area of USMB than the rest of it combined in my opinion. And that goes across the entire spectrum of posters. Not singling anyone or any side out. Just my observation that the FZ has the highest concentration of toxicity.
> ...


LOL That's for this last line.

I didn't know there were people who pretty much only posted in the Flame Zone, Rubber Room and Badlands. They must carry around a heavy load of misery.


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## Gracie (May 6, 2014)

They feed on the hate they serve each other about someone else.


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## Statistikhengst (May 6, 2014)

R.D. said:


> Wolfsister77 said:
> 
> 
> > Derideo_Te said:
> ...


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## Statistikhengst (May 6, 2014)

Gracie said:


> Speaking of.....
> 
> Sometimes talking to people to make them "understand" doesn't work. They just get angry because they stay angry at whatever. So....I did an experiment once to avoid a confrontation with tenants I had years ago when I was managing in West Covina. HUGE property. We had a nice garden area with pathways, night lamps, benches hither and yon and surrounded by flowers, bushes, and just beautiful plants everywhere. They would follow the cement path, but they also cut through the garden area, stepping on delicate flora and fauna. So..knowing most people follow without even thinking about it...I got some stepping stones and placed them close together, cutting through the garden. Then I watched from my window. The people would come home from work, cut through, but make sure each step was ON the stepping stones. Hmmm. Interesting. So after a few days, I went out there and moved the stepping stones until they were further apart and difficult to navigate easily. They came home, and stretched their legs far enough so their toes would be ON the stepping stones. They didn't even realize they were doing it. So the following days, I moved them back closer again, two by two, for easy passage. It worked out fine. They began to use that path, ON the stones, when not using the cement walkway.
> 
> Lesson learned? *People will follow the easiest path and not even know they are doing it and confrontations can be avoided* when some are determined to stomp on flowers instead of going the path hardest for them. They want the easy way..and the easy way can be pleasant if it is handled correctly.





Wasser geht den Weg des geringsten Widerstandes.
Water follows the path of least resistance.

Laws of physics for us mortals.


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## Statistikhengst (May 6, 2014)

Wake said:


> The best thing to do is to not taunt others. Don't respond to attacks, while being the bigger adult. It's not a game, because there are no winners when people fight malevolently over the pettiest of things. No one is perfect, either. Least of all me. It doesn't feel good to be cruel, or to try and make others suffer. To make them feel miserable. Sometimes the best thing is to do nothing in response, and then find better places and people.




At the same time, sometimes things are said, things that grow into rumours and those rumous grow into "truths", and if they are not quashed, then later on, in spite of having been the "adult", you (you, meaning, any of us) could have a problem on down the road. In such a case, doing absolutely nothing is maybe not such a good idea.

Not only cream rises to the top. Shit does too.


I suppose that in life, it's pretty much always a matter of balance.


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## Statistikhengst (May 6, 2014)

Gracie said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > Gracie said:
> ...


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## Statistikhengst (May 6, 2014)

Gracie said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > Gracie said:
> ...





Gracie said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Derideo_Te said:
> ...






Because they don't have to look the other person in the face and say the nasty things they want to say, it's easy to go overboard.


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## Statistikhengst (May 6, 2014)

Granny said:


> I had a toxic mother and it took me years to get myself to a place where I could become at least a reasonably whole person.  I often thought over the years that I could forgive her if I thought she was mentally ill, but the truth is she was just mean. I spent my pre-school years in isolation - no kids to play with ... and I can clearly remember looking out across the road at this place where all these children were outside playing.  I can remember in my older years my mother saying, in this voice intonement that I don't know how to describe, "You was so desperate for somebody to play with you'd even play with them little pickaninnies that came by when their parents came to buy flowers to sell."
> 
> I'll never know the truth about why I was put in an orphanage at age 7 - anytime I brought the subject up I'd be met with stone silence - and that silence spoke volumes. I didn't see my family that much during those years and I could never figure out why I was sent to one 120 miles from home when there were 3 orphanages right there in the city where we lived - all of them accessible by public transportation.
> 
> ...





Brava to you. Brava.


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## Statistikhengst (May 6, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> Grandma said:
> 
> 
> > Derideo_Te said:
> ...



Indeed.


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## Esmeralda (May 6, 2014)

My Inner Life
by Robert William Service

'Tis true my garments threadbare are,
And sorry poor I seem;
But inly I am richer far
Than any poet's dream.
For I've a hidden life no one
Can ever hope to see;
A sacred sanctuary none
May share with me.

Aloof I stand from out the strife,
Within my heart a song;
By virtue of my inner life
I to myself belong.
Against man-ruling I rebel,
Yet do not fear defeat,
For to my secret citadel
I may retreat.

Oh you who have an inner life
Beyond this dismal day
With wars and evil rumours rife,
Go blessedly your way.
Your refuge hold inviolate;
Unto yourself be true,
And shield serene from sordid fate
The Real You.


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## strollingbones (May 6, 2014)

Derideo_Te said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > I have only ever been forced to be around one toxic person.  He was the friend of a friend and we used to go to gun shows together.  Toxic person was always a dreary asshole.  One day I asked my friend why he put up with him, and his response was that he felt obligated because they had been friends since grade school.
> ...



the flame zone takes the hit yet again....why?  we do not venture out and trash yall in threads outside the flame zone...but here you trash the flame zone?  hardly seems like that is an attitude of removing toxicity now does it?  why are you singling out one forum as a problem?  why are you trying to censure anyone on here?  

does it bother you that the flame zone is the only true free speech zone?

it is unfortunate that people now see the flame zone as a land mine field it is not....
i have encountered more kindness in the flame zone than outside it.....when i posted my problems with my mom it was in the flame zone and i got a ton of support...the flame zone is like all things....what one makes of it.


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## Mertex (May 6, 2014)

strollingbones said:


> the flame zone takes the hit yet again....why?  we do not venture out and trash yall in threads outside the flame zone...but here you trash the flame zone?  hardly seems like that is an attitude of removing toxicity now does it?  why are you singling out one forum as a problem?  why are you trying to censure anyone on here?
> 
> does it bother you that the flame zone is the only true free speech zone?
> 
> ...



True that other board forums allow for members to denigrate each other, and it is usually regarding political bias, the Flame Zone allows it for any or no reason.  At least in the other forums the members spewing the vitriol and name-calling are doing it in the name of politics, but in the Flame Zone they apparently can do it just because they hate the member they are eviscerating.  I don't think the other forums allow any member to start a thread for the purpose of denigrating someone like it is done in the FZ. And while it is not pretty no matter where you do it, at least in the other forums they have to stick to the topic at hand or they can be reported for derailing a thread, while in the FZ they can go almost anywhere they want.

Also, there is a difference between "free"  speech and "toxic debilitating" speech.  The very idea that you can start a thread about a member with the sole purpose being to eviscerate him makes it different than any of the other forums and people that are willing to participate in the evisceration are very much like the people in the other forums, that cannot debate civilly and must make everything they disagree with personal and attack the member personally instead of the issue.  There may be good and meaningful threads in the FZ, but lately, most of the new threads are for the purpose of lynching a person with hateful words and comments.


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## strollingbones (May 6, 2014)

Mertex said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> > the flame zone takes the hit yet again....why?  we do not venture out and trash yall in threads outside the flame zone...but here you trash the flame zone?  hardly seems like that is an attitude of removing toxicity now does it?  why are you singling out one forum as a problem?  why are you trying to censure anyone on here?
> ...




i get it ..1st adm right  for those you agree with.....

censorship for those you dont.....


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## Wake (May 6, 2014)

It's best just to avoid the toxicity in general. I avoid places where toxic people congregate, because that sort of ugliness can drag you in and make you say and do things you wouldn't otherwise do. It's like a poison for the soul, and no one really needs those bad influences in their lives.


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## Mertex (May 6, 2014)

strollingbones said:


> Mertex said:
> 
> 
> > strollingbones said:
> ...



First of all, I'm not censoring anyone.  I have not made an effort nor am I on a campaign to close the FZ down.  I was just voicing my opinion, so, I don't know how you were able to come to that conclusion.  The first amendment still stands for those who spew vitriol as they have not been censored or removed.  If you are saying that I prefer civility in debate in lieu of personal attacks, that is a choice, not censorship in any form.

I don't like personal attacks on a debate forum regardless of the political affiliation of the person doing it.  I am aware that it is allowed, and most of the time the same people that make it personal on the political threads are the same ones that participate in the FZ.  There are many, however,  that do it on the political threads that I never see in the FZ, and many that do it in the FZ that I haven't seen in the other threads, but the most prominent ones will do it wherever they are able to.

My comment was geared at the toxic people and their hateful mission to eviscerate those they don't like, whether they do it in the FZ or anywhere else, and how it has become common place lately for some to start threads especially dedicated to doing just that.


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## Avatar4321 (May 6, 2014)

Wake said:


> It's best just to avoid the toxicity in general. I avoid places where toxic people congregate, because that sort of ugliness can drag you in and make you say and do things you wouldn't otherwise do. It's like a poison for the soul, and no one really needs those bad influences in their lives.



That is prudent to do sometimes. Because often we can be corrupted without realizing it.

Sometimes though we need to get alittle dirty to reach out and bring people out of the filth.


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## Avatar4321 (May 6, 2014)

I think in order to have peace with others, we often need peace within ourselves. Many people lack that first step.


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## Wake (May 6, 2014)

Avatar4321 said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > It's best just to avoid the toxicity in general. I avoid places where toxic people congregate, because that sort of ugliness can drag you in and make you say and do things you wouldn't otherwise do. It's like a poison for the soul, and no one really needs those bad influences in their lives.
> ...



True, but at other times it goes horribly wrongly, because some people enjoy hurting one another.



Avatar4321 said:


> I think in order to have peace with others, we often need peace within ourselves. Many people lack that first step.



That's true, and in the past I lacked that first step.


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## Avatar4321 (May 6, 2014)

Wake said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> > Wake said:
> ...



That first step is a doozy. I've been working on that for a while.


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## Grandma (May 6, 2014)

Mertex said:


> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> > And in the pets thread. Rat decided to come shit on my Pretties thread and said "the THINGS are dead", referring to my cat and dog.
> ...



A shit comment like Rat's deserves to be negged endlessly.


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## Coyote (May 6, 2014)

*Thread closed due to numerous violations.  Folks - the Lounge is not meant to be a soapbox for venting or flaming about bad behavior elsewhere in USMB, that sort of stuff belongs in the FZ where the furniture is flame-retardent as are the inhabitents.*


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