# Mandate moved back, LOL



## Mac1958 (Feb 10, 2014)

.



It just gets better, boom, right in our face:

White House delays health insurance mandate for medium-sized employers until 2016 - The Washington Post

Does anyone doubt they'll back it up to 2017 for the election?

Too funny.  Shameless.

.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 10, 2014)

Of course it is, and, yes, count on it being in 2017.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Feb 10, 2014)

Mac1958 said:


> Does anyone doubt they'll back it up to 2017 for the election?



No doubt.  They won't want the Democratic candidate bogged down by the backlash.  Better to be dishonest and see how many ignorant people they can fool.


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## Mac1958 (Feb 10, 2014)

.

One can only laugh at this point.

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## Stephanie (Feb 10, 2014)

Well, our dictators have spoken...the hell with following their own damn law they shoved on our backs


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## R.D. (Feb 10, 2014)

Under WAPO  Health and Science not politics.    Were they trying to hide this?


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## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Before the Republican fiasco last November I would said this is a fine thing.

Now, I understand how dumb this makes Obama and the Democrats look.


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## oreo (Feb 10, 2014)

Mac1958 said:


> .
> 
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> 
> ...




Note--how they're not trying to FIX it--it's just delay the mess it's going to cause when it's implemented.  Now if we get a republican senate with an republican President in 2016--it's NEVER going to happen-- 






I think this says it all!  

*Welcome to your hope and change!*


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Feb 10, 2014)

oreo said:


> Note--how they're not trying to FIX it--it's just delay the mess it's going to cause when it's implemented.  Now if we get a republican senate with an republican President in 2016--it's NEVER going to happen--



The Republicans have no intention of repealing ObamaCare


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## Meister (Feb 10, 2014)

Somebody tell me that Obama isn't playing politics.....other than greenbeard.


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## Stephanie (Feb 10, 2014)

and remember folks, Obama allowed the government be SHUT DOWN for this very same concession Republicans were asking of him

please vote these people out of running our lives


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## hjmick (Feb 10, 2014)

Jesus Christ...


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 10, 2014)

We just got trumped by BHO again.

Shades of Clinton.


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## HenryBHough (Feb 10, 2014)

Selective enforcement of laws sworn to uphold?

Impeachable?

If not, why not?


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## Stephanie (Feb 10, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> Selective enforcement of laws sworn to uphold?
> 
> Impeachable?
> 
> If not, why not?



You would FRIKKEN THINK it would be
this is horrible for us and our country


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## Meister (Feb 10, 2014)

JakeStarkey said:


> We just got trumped by BHO again.
> 
> Shades of Clinton.



What????  First, who is "we"?
Second, everybody in America knows that obummercare is a clusterfuck, Jake.
The only thing this really shows is just how bad Barry is looking and the desperation he is feeling.


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## Rozman (Feb 10, 2014)

Obama was for his signature piece of legislation....
Before he was against it.

If he fully believed in this piece of crap law he would enforce it...


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## HenryBHough (Feb 10, 2014)

Obama believes in Obama.

Period.

And you can keep that.  Whether you like it or not.


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 10, 2014)

...and the President can unilaterally change laws?

Really??


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## HenryBHough (Feb 10, 2014)

CrusaderFrank said:


> ...and the President can unilaterally change laws?
> 
> Really??



His mentor, that Achmendinnerjacket fella from Iran, taught him well.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Feb 10, 2014)

CrusaderFrank said:


> ...and the President can unilaterally change laws?
> 
> Really??



He can if nobody has the testicular fortitude to stop him.  The Democrats will allow him to do what ever he wants for partisan reasons.  The Republicans don't have the spine to do anything and the American people are too fat, lazy, and stupid to care about the fact their government is out of control.

These people only get away with what we let them get away with.


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## AquaAthena (Feb 10, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> Well, our dictators have spoken...the hell with following their own damn law they shoved on our backs



UNEDITED:


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8En1zxhaDE]Obama Pen and Phone Speech UNEDITED - YouTube[/ame]


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## Stephanie (Feb 10, 2014)

Our Congress and elected Representatives have become useless, worthless  and are as bad as Obama in disregarding their oath to the office

People need to get on their ass over all this or have no Representation and just send them all home and let this government just run all over you at will


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## Antares (Feb 10, 2014)

JakeStarkey said:


> Of course it is, and, yes, count on it being in 2017.



A) You voted for him
B) You support his "right" to change the Law anyway he sees fit.


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## Mac1958 (Feb 10, 2014)

.

*President Obama, at least two dozen times: * "If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan"
*Reporter, at press conference:*  "Hey, what about that, Mr. President?"
*President Obama:* "What we said was, you can keep it if it hasn't changed since the law passed."
*Reporter:*  "Da fuq?"

*President Obama, a zillion times on the campaign trail:*  "We're going to fundamentally transform America"
*Bill O'Reilly: *"Mr President, why do you feel it's necessary to fundamentally transform the nation that has afforded you so much opportunity and success?"
*President Obama: *"I don't think we have to fundamentally transform the nation".
*Bill O'Reilly:* "Da fuq?"

Look folks, let's face it:  We're being fucked over and there's nothing we can do about it.  The apologists are going to spin and deny and lie, most of the country is too busy watching Honey Boo Boo.  He's pretty much going to do and say whatever the hell he wants.  We may as well have fun with it.  Fuck it.

.


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## ShootSpeeders (Feb 10, 2014)

What an incredibly lawless president we have. He rewrites the law again. Of course this is unconstitutional, but nothing is done.


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## ShootSpeeders (Feb 10, 2014)

If obozo burned down an orphanage and raped the pope on national TV, nothing would be done to him.


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## HenryBHough (Feb 10, 2014)

ShootSpeeders said:


> If obozo burned down an orphanage and raped the pope on national TV, nothing would be done to him.



That's not true.

He'd be nominated for another Peace Prize.


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## ShootSpeeders (Feb 10, 2014)

The loonies at democratic underground have a thread on this subject.  They say the WH is "relaxing" the employer mandate!!   HAHAHA


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## Antares (Feb 10, 2014)

The Law, The President, and his followers are nothing but a joke.


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## ShootSpeeders (Feb 10, 2014)

The states need to stand up here and say the president cannot write laws and  each state is thus forced to nullify obamacare.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Feb 10, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> Our Congress and elected Representatives have become useless, worthless  and are as bad as Obama in disregarding their oath to the office



They are nothing more than a representation of the people who put them there.


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## william the wie (Feb 10, 2014)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> > Our Congress and elected Representatives have become useless, worthless  and are as bad as Obama in disregarding their oath to the office
> ...


While true this Turkey of a bill, the ACA, is causing the GOP to adopt Napoleon's maxim of never interfering with an opponent in the process of self destruction. The unenforcability of this new mandate will lead to a significant slowdown and perhaps recession leading up to the election, which is polling gold. There is a strong possibility of Reid throwing the president under the bus in hopes of reducing senate losses. That would really help in states like CA where the main opposition for Ds are the Greens and Socialists.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 10, 2014)

Meister said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > We just got trumped by BHO again.
> ...



We is the GOP, and "everybody" knows no such thing, and the fact is that the GOP has been outmaneuvered and tripped up from the get go.

This gives the Dems almost three years to beat the drums that we wanted the uninsured to die.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 10, 2014)

Antares said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Of course it is, and, yes, count on it being in 2017.
> ...



A) You keep lying about that.
B) No, I don't.
C) Demonstrate where he does not have the right to manage the federal program?


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 10, 2014)

william the wie said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> > Stephanie said:
> ...



There is nothing of the sort that supports the wild assertions above.


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## WelfareQueen (Feb 10, 2014)

The cynicism of Obama is stunning.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 10, 2014)

WelfareQueen said:


> The cynicism of Obama is stunning.



That is true, and the GOP keeps playing right into his hands.


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## Meister (Feb 10, 2014)

JakeStarkey said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...


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## Stephanie (Feb 10, 2014)

This is so in our face, when are the people going to STAND UP and demand this be stopped?

SNIP:
Krauthammer: These ObamaCare changes are getting so endemic, &#8220;nobody even complains&#8221; anymore


posted at 8:51 pm on February 10, 2014 by Erika Johnsen


They have a whole heap of regulations still left to write (at least $1.4 billion in annual compliance costs&#8217; worth, by one estimate), but the employer mandate was part of the actual text of the law. Where is it written that they can just make at-will changes ad infinitum? Watch it at RCP:





> Generally speaking, you get past the next election by changing your policies, by announcing new initiatives, but not by wantonly changing the law, lawlessly. I mean, this is stuff that you do in a banana republic. It&#8217;s as if the law is simply a blackboard on which Obama writes any number he wants, any delay he wants and any provision. It&#8217;s now reached a point where it is so endemic that nobody even notices or complains. I think if the complaints had started with the first arbitrary changes, and these are are not adjustments or transitions. These are political decisions to minimize the impact leading up to an election, and it&#8217;s changing the law in a way that you are not allowed to do. &#8230; It&#8217;s not incompetence. Willful breaking of the constitutional order &#8212; where in the Constitution is the president allowed to alter a law 27 times after it&#8217;s been passed?



*And besides the utter lawlessness of the whole thing,* there&#8217;s still the question of the tangible price of the White House&#8217;s non-legislative mood swings: After the Obama administration&#8217;s initial employer-mandate suspension through 2015 that they made back in July, the CBO estimated that it would add an additional $12 billion onto the total cost of ObamaCare because employers wouldn&#8217;t be paying penalties (i.e., taxes) on not insuring people, while more people would likely need to seek subsidized insurance through the exchanges because their employers wouldn&#8217;t be required to offer it yet. Won&#8217;t delaying the employer mandate again add at least ten billion or so more onto the total ObamaCare price tag? Especially if the Obama administration does decide to go through with the rumored (and, incidentally, also lawless) three-year extension of the &#8220;if you like your plan, you can keep it&#8221; fix for the cancelled plans in the individual market, doesn&#8217;t that all increase the likelihood of major &#8220;risk corridor&#8221; bailouts and/or the law&#8217;s fiscal implosion? What is going on?!

all of it here
Krauthammer: These ObamaCare changes are getting so endemic, ?nobody even complains? anymore « Hot Air


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## 007 (Feb 10, 2014)

Mac1958 said:


> .
> 
> *President Obama, at least two dozen times: * "If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan"
> *Reporter, at press conference:*  "Hey, what about that, Mr. President?"
> ...



*Obama: 'I Can Do Whatever I Want'*

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czleWdUggow]KING OBAMA: 'I Can Do Whatever I Want' - YouTube[/ame]

Obama: 'I Can Do Whatever I Want' | The Weekly Standard

This rancid little mother fucking kenyan shit stain seriously belongs in prison.


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## oreo (Feb 10, 2014)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> oreo said:
> 
> 
> > Note--how they're not trying to FIX it--it's just delay the mess it's going to cause when it's implemented.  Now if we get a republican senate with an republican President in 2016--it's NEVER going to happen--
> ...



They are not going to attack the American public along with it's economy with Obamacare.  They'll either repeal it or FIX it.

Take your pick.


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## oreo (Feb 10, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> This is so in our face, when are the people going to STAND UP and demand this be stopped?
> 
> SNIP:
> Krauthammer: These ObamaCare changes are getting so endemic, &#8220;nobody even complains&#8221; anymore
> ...



I think Krauthammer nailed it in this statement:



> Generally speaking, you get past the next election by changing your policies, by announcing new initiatives, but not by wantonly changing the law, lawlessly. I mean, this is stuff that you do in a banana republic. It&#8217;s as if the law is simply a blackboard on which Obama writes any number he wants, any delay he wants and any provision. It&#8217;s now reached a point where it is so endemic that nobody even notices or complains. I think if the complaints had started with the first arbitrary changes, and these are are not adjustments or transitions. These are political decisions to minimize the impact leading up to an election, and it&#8217;s changing the law in a way that you are not allowed to do. &#8230;* It&#8217;s not incompetence. Willful breaking of the constitutional order &#8212; where in the Constitution is the president allowed to alter a law 27 times after it&#8217;s been passed?*


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## iamwhatiseem (Feb 11, 2014)

If anyone had ANY doubts about the BIG problems of Obamacare - surely to God they realize it is a clusterfuck now. Surely. Right??


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## JoeB131 (Feb 11, 2014)

Mac1958 said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So he listens to the whining of small businesses, and when he does what they ask, you slam him for it. 

You know, if they offered a public option or a Medicare Buy-In, we wouldn't have these issues.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 11, 2014)

iamwhatiseem said:


> If anyone had ANY doubts about the BIG problems of Obamacare - surely to God they realize it is a clusterfuck now. Surely. Right??



Only in the regard that it was built on the EXISTING clusterfuck of making people get their health insurance through their employers.


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## Geaux4it (Feb 11, 2014)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone doubt they'll back it up to 2017 for the election?
> ...



To wit- 51%

-Geaux


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## Mac1958 (Feb 11, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
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> > .
> ...




So he's just trying to help, he's just trying to be a nice guy.  Now THAT'S putting a nice face on this.

And your party is responsible for this pig of a law.  The GOP sat there with a stick up their ass, but your party did this.  Deflection doesn't work when your signature is on the page.

.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 11, 2014)

Mac1958 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Mac1958 said:
> ...



You guys had no problem with ObamaCare when it was called "RomneyCare".  

Incidently, I've always wanted to go to a single payer Canadian-style system.  This was the best we could get with the obscene level of influence the insurance industry has...

This was the best law we could get at this time, unfortunately.  Eventually, we are going to end up going to single payer, but we aren't ready for that grown up discussion as long as too many people are making money off the misery of the status quo.  

But small businesses.  I really, truly do not give a flip about them.  Probably because I have to deal with them all day, and why they can't ever deliver what they promise.


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## Spoonman (Feb 11, 2014)

Mac1958 said:


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you know whats really funny?  due to it's total failure on launch, the democrats are giving up even more than the republicans were asking for during the shut down  lol


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## TakeAStepBack (Feb 11, 2014)

Remember when the republicans held the nation hostage over negotiations to extend the Obama Tax mandate? 

Yeah, I remember that. I bet every LOLberal here on USMB has conveniently forgotten about all that slimy rhetoric now though. I mean, how can anyone sit with a straight face after a second extension was handed down after negotiations collapsed because republicans wanted to make extensions? 

Oh, democrats, that is who. And why? Because they do raging hypocrisy likes it's one of the commandments.


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 11, 2014)

TakeAStepBack said:


> Remember when the republicans held the nation hostage over negotiations to extend the Obama Tax mandate?
> 
> Yeah, I remember that. I bet every LOLberal here on USMB has conveniently forgotten about all that slimy rhetoric now though. I mean, how can anyone sit with a straight face after a second extension was handed down after negotiations collapsed because republicans wanted to make extensions?
> 
> Oh, democrats, that is who. And why? Because they do raging hypocrisy likes it's one of the commandments.



Hive-minded Democrats can't relate to what you just said


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## 007 (Feb 11, 2014)

TakeAStepBack said:


> Remember when the republicans held the nation hostage over negotiations to extend the Obama Tax mandate?
> 
> Yeah, I remember that. I bet every LOLberal here on USMB has conveniently forgotten about all that slimy rhetoric now though. I mean, how can anyone sit with a straight face after a second extension was handed down after negotiations collapsed because republicans wanted to make extensions?
> 
> Oh, democrats, that is who. And why? Because they do raging hypocrisy likes it's one of the commandments.



Don't worry... they know they have a serious ass kickin' on the way in November. People are waking up. All you have to do is hit them in the pocket book to get their attention, and now that they are paying attention, they know who's to blame for this commie style health care take over, OBAMA AND THE DEMOCRATS, and they'll remember at the BALLOT BOX too.


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## TakeAStepBack (Feb 11, 2014)

007 said:


> TakeAStepBack said:
> 
> 
> > Remember when the republicans held the nation hostage over negotiations to extend the Obama Tax mandate?
> ...



I doubt it. You give people entirely too much intellectual credit.


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## asterism (Feb 11, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> > .
> ...



Where is the money going to come from for a Medicare plan?  It's $2.7 Trillion each and every year.


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## 007 (Feb 11, 2014)

TakeAStepBack said:


> 007 said:
> 
> 
> > TakeAStepBack said:
> ...


Granted that would be true for many, TakeAstep, as evidenced by the brain dead, odumbobots and commies here. But I think a good majority is getting pretty damn good sick and tired of this bull shit...


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## 007 (Feb 11, 2014)




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## HenryBHough (Feb 11, 2014)

First read my signature.

Then read this:

Thought Police: Firms must swear ObamaCare not a factor in firings | Fox News

Then choose:

Weep.

Laugh along with Orwell.

Don't try to do both simultaneously unless you're a liberal as the results can be life threatening.


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## Amelia (Feb 11, 2014)

Omg


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## JoeB131 (Feb 11, 2014)

asterism said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Mac1958 said:
> ...



Well where does it come from now?  

Here's the thing. We as a country spend 14% of our GDP on health care, between government programs and private insurance.  

Included in that is profit taking, 9 figure salaries for CEO's, employees in doctor's offices whose only job is to fight with insurance carriers, and so on. 

Meanwhile, Japan spends only 8% of it's GDP on health care, and it has single payer. 

Japan also has a longer life expectancy for its citizens, and a much lower infant mortality rate.


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## LoneLaugher (Feb 11, 2014)

This is. HUGE! The most egregious example of Obama's Marxist tendencies yet! He has delayed a portion of the law that nutters used to love.....but now hate  what a dictator.


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## Amelia (Feb 11, 2014)

He put off ... again ... the mandate for one of the sectors where the most job loss is likely to occur.  Chose to postpone the pain ... again ... in hopes of mitigating Democrat losses at the polls.


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## Mac1958 (Feb 11, 2014)

Amelia said:


> He put off ... again ... the mandate for one of the sectors where the most job loss is likely to occur.  Chose to postpone the pain ... again ... in hopes of mitigating Democrat losses at the polls.




Yep, only the most hardcore partisan ideologues would even *try* to deny this.  

A transparently political move, fooling only the sycophants.

.


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## tennisbum (Feb 11, 2014)

Amelia said:


> He put off ... again ... the mandate for one of the sectors where the most job loss is likely to occur.  Chose to postpone the pain ... again ... in hopes of mitigating Democrat losses at the polls.



You nailed it


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## emilynghiem (Feb 11, 2014)

2017 is the earliest date for the state innovations.
so by that time, maybe workable solutions will be offered which people voluntarily agree to fund and participate in because it is effective, as government and health care should be run. Based on good policy, educated choices, and consent of the governed.



Mac1958 said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## HenryBHough (Feb 11, 2014)

emilynghiem said:


> 2017 is the earliest date for the state innovations.
> so by that time, maybe workable solutions will be offered which people voluntarily agree to fund and participate in because it is effective, as government and health care should be run. Based on good policy, educated choices, and consent of the governed.



Pigs might also fly.


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## Antares (Feb 11, 2014)

JakeStarkey said:


> Antares said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



*JakeStarkey JakeStarkey is offline 
Registered User
Member #20412   Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: in the mainstream
Posts: 65,444 
Thanks: 8,739
Thanked 9,904 Times in 7,747 Posts 
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 11038 
JakeStarkey has disabled reputation 

Quote: Originally Posted by Antares View Post 
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoosier4Liberty View Post 
Quote: Originally Posted by JakeStarkey View Post 
obviously staged
Mr. Starkey, I'm just curious. If you are a Republican and actually want the GOP to win back the Senate, then why have I not heard you once criticize the left? You seem to support Obamacare, the stimulus, and most of Obama's other policies. Honestly, I'm happy you're not voting Dem just because that helps our side, but does the GOP really match your ideology at all?

Jake voted for Obama twice, don't let him yank your penis.
 I voted for McCain and Obama.

Your industry is getting what it earned, Antares.

Tuff dat. *

*I voted for McCain and Obama.
*

Jake those big words in red are your words, you voted for Obama.


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## Geaux4it (Feb 11, 2014)

The ACA delay, as O'Reilly and Charles just discussed, is not a delay to improve the law but a delay to keep from implementing the law. The Dems are taking on water and this in strictly a political move by a losing team

-Geaux


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## william the wie (Feb 11, 2014)

Geaux4it said:


> The ACA delay, as O'Reilly and Charles just discussed, is not a delay to improve the law but a delay to keep from implementing the law. The Dems are taking on water and this in strictly a political move by a losing team
> 
> -Geaux


I keep wondering how bad the proprietary polling data is on Ocare to prompt this move?


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## HenryBHough (Feb 11, 2014)

Geaux4it said:


> The ACA delay, as O'Reilly and Charles just discussed, is not a delay to improve the law but a delay to keep from implementing the law. The Dems are taking on water and this in strictly a political move by a losing team
> 
> -Geaux



Please don't fall victim to the liberal insistence on substituting the oxymoronic "ACA" mantra for what is and must always be properly called "Obamacare".


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## william the wie (Feb 12, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > The ACA delay, as O'Reilly and Charles just discussed, is not a delay to improve the law but a delay to keep from implementing the law. The Dems are taking on water and this in strictly a political move by a losing team
> ...


You must be suffering low irony syndrome, have you seen a dietician about that problem?


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## Politico (Feb 12, 2014)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone doubt they'll back it up to 2017 for the election?
> ...



Yeah. Shame there is no election in 2017.


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## Mac1958 (Feb 12, 2014)

Politico said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> > Mac1958 said:
> ...




I'll make this as simple as I can.

See, they would/will do this in early or mid 2016 in plenty of time for the 2016 elections.  That will help their fellow Democrats in the elections, since they are now reduced to doing stuff like this to mitigate the damage they did to themselves with this "law".

So, they would back it up to 2017 in 2016.  Just like they backed up the mandate from 2014 (an election year) to 2015 (not an election year).

That's how it would work.  This is about politics, not health care.

I hope that helps, please let me know if you require further explanation.



Yikes.

.


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## LoneLaugher (Feb 12, 2014)

Or....maybe the administration is responding to the needs of small business owners.

I wonder if any of the outraged among us have taken the time to consider that there is a good reason......not related to the political calendar.....for this action. 

Absent such an effort, your statements ring hollow.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

Mac1958 said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> > He put off ... again ... the mandate for one of the sectors where the most job loss is likely to occur.  Chose to postpone the pain ... again ... in hopes of mitigating Democrat losses at the polls.
> ...



Or it wasn't that big of a deal... 

Here's a helpful chart from the Kaiser Foundation. 






99% of employers with 200 or more employees ALREADY offer health care coverage. 

91% of employers with 50-199 employees already offer health insurance. 

So, really, very few companies are really being effected by this exception in the law.  

More people are probably affected by the fact that the government dropped the requirement that all new furnace installations be 95% efficient.  But you won't hear people whine about that because it isn't a political issue for the right.


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## Geaux4it (Feb 12, 2014)

LoneLaugher said:


> Or....maybe the administration is responding to the needs of small business owners.
> 
> I wonder if any of the outraged among us have taken the time to consider that there is a good reason......not related to the political calendar.....for this action.
> 
> Absent such an effort, your statements ring hollow.



Take off the rose colored glasses for just once.

The unintended consequence of the decision may be good for business, actually, the repeal of Obamacare would be better. But America, even the LIV 51%, know better.

-Geaux


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## LoneLaugher (Feb 12, 2014)

Geaux4it said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > Or....maybe the administration is responding to the needs of small business owners.
> ...



Didn't want to consider it, huh? I get it.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 12, 2014)

LoneLaugher said:


> Or....maybe the administration is responding to the needs of small business owners.
> 
> I wonder if any of the outraged among us have taken the time to consider that there is a good reason......not related to the political calendar.....for this action.
> 
> Absent such an effort, your statements ring hollow.



And if a Frog had wings he wouldn't bump his butt when he jumped...........

Again, you make no statement about the Fact that they are violating their own laws without Congressional Consent...................An Administration that only Obeys the laws when they feel like it.

Two, you make no comments that this was part of the concessions from the GOP during the Shutdown.....................Holding the country HOSTAGE, and then the NITWIT in the Oval office later does the same dang thing anyway..................

Your side's normal game is recognized by most who post here.............Luckily for you most of the populous of this country aren't as informed as we are, but even with that they overwhelmingly REJECT THIS LAW...................Your side is now in damage control again for this very reason, and have proven that you have NO RESPECT FOR THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

Geaux4it said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > Or....maybe the administration is responding to the needs of small business owners.
> ...



I'm sorry, why is it a good thing to... 

Spend more than every other country in the world, but...
Have 1 out of 4 Americans have inadequate or no insurance?
We have the lowest life expectency in the industrialized world.
We have the highest infant mortality rate in the industrialized world.
62% of bankruptcies are related to medical crisis, and  75% of those have medical insurance when the crisis begins. 

Now, you guys are the ones who INSIST that rather than have single payer, universal coverage like every other industrialized country, we have to make people get insurance through their employers.  

And then you get a situation where the Douchebag CEO of AOL whines he has to cut 401K payouts because two AOL employees had premature babies that cost a million dollars each to treat. 

(Obviously, cutting his own 12 million dollar salary never occurred to him. He's going to suck every dollar he can out of AOL before it's WELL DESERVED DEMISE!)


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## Geaux4it (Feb 12, 2014)

LoneLaugher said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



I did consider it.. and responded... If you can be more specific relative to your concerns, then I can address them.

-Geaux


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## Geaux4it (Feb 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



I had no issues with my premium and coverage so I can't relate to your bullets for the most part. The exception being the CEO of AOL.. I think he was/is right

-Geaux


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## LoneLaugher (Feb 12, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > Or....maybe the administration is responding to the needs of small business owners.
> ...



The delay violates no laws. Your approach is that of a middle schooler. Try harder.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

Geaux4it said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...



Oh, I see.  As long as you aren't suffering, it isn't a problem. 

I used to think like that, when I was a Republican. 

Then my douchebag boss let me go from my job after I ran up too many medical bills, and I realized the pure stupidity of putting your health care in the hands of people looking to make a profit.  They'd harvest your organs if they thought they could get away with it. 

The AOL guy is the kind of Douchebag that runs Corporate America, and it's why the rest of the world is eating our lunch.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 12, 2014)

LoneLaugher said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



LOL

The ACA is a law correct........................

The ACA required implementation by specific dates, and if the law has not been amended to grant these delays then you are absolutely in violation of the law.....

The GOP offered to compromise and delay these laws through the Correct process, which is through the Congress............and your side called it Hostage taking and now do the same thing...............

You have no respect for the Constitution.  ZERO NADA................The Administration doesn't have the right to change laws without Congressional Consent.  PERIOD.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Up yours.  I lost my insurance as a result of this BS law.........The rates went through the roof and were already high.............

So you may KISS MY .....................


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> [
> 
> LOL
> 
> ...



No, it doesn't want Congress sabotaging the law. 

If your only complaint was that the 9% of businesses with 50-200 employees needed more time to comply, you got that.  I'm just not seeing your problem.  

But you guys want the whole law invalidated, not just a one year delay.  

Probably why it's best that Obama completely ignore you.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> [
> 
> Up yours.  I lost my insurance as a result of this BS law.........The rates went through the roof and were already high.............
> 
> So you may KISS MY .....................



Have you gone on the exchanges and even looked? 

My guess is that you didn't.  

My guess is you bought a policy that didn't even cover anything, and then wondered why it was no longer being offered.

By the way, this has nothing to do with the exemption Obama granted small business.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



He ignores everyone...........As you deny that most in this country think the ACA is BS...................

They asked for a 1 year delay of the whole thing........Correct............and even the Unions were saying the same dang thing at the time...........

We do want the law gone.........but the Compromise was justified as your side was having a kickoff in a football game where the ball went BACKWARDS............

Bottom line.......It is a Re-distribution scheme.........It has damaged those outside the poverty ranges...........It has caused businesses to go to part time...............

It is an Economic ANCHOR.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



My daughter did it for me......Because I wouldn't do it.............I could have got a crappy deduct policy for a whole 50 bucks less you BOVINE ...DJFKDJNVLJ OF.D.MFDFD.

Wow,,,,,,,,,,,,,terms of service doesn't allow me to say what I want to say here.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> [
> 
> He ignores everyone...........As you deny that most in this country think the ACA is BS...................
> 
> ...



Most of the people who think the ACA is BS are ones who don't think it goes far enough.  You guys like to try to count those as kindred spirits. 

Here's the thing.  We could have had a public option or a Medicare buy-in that would have resolved most of the problems you guys complain about, but you didn't want to go there. 

Because Big Insurance didn't want the competition.  

I guess when I see the CEO of United Health with a nine-figure compensation package, I am seeing a "redistribution scheme".  Oh, and most of the policies that are being cancelled are from- you guess it - United Health. 

You clowns on the Right had no problem with ObamaCare when it was proposed by the  Heritage Foundation or when Romney did it in Massachusetts. 

You just got upset when the Black Guy did it.


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## chikenwing (Feb 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > [
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Typical  so typical as long as there is no opposition.

This is how it works,there are checks installed for a purpose,but your kind refuse to except the fact that more reject this turd then embrace it.

And after all for the people by the people.


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## Bfgrn (Feb 12, 2014)

Mac1958 said:


> .
> 
> One can only laugh at this point.
> 
> .



Yea Mr 'problem solver'...our health care system didn't need any changes. It was just fine costing us twice as much as other industrialized nations with poorer outcomes and thousands of premature deaths every year because people don't have access to affordable medical care.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
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> > eagle1462010 said:
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Honestly, it's starting to sound like health insurance is the least of your problems.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

chikenwing said:


> [
> 
> Typical  so typical as long as there is no opposition.
> 
> ...



Guy, you all ran the Weird Mormon Robot on the premise he would overturn ObamaCare. 

And he lost. 

That, along with the SCOTUS decision, was the end of the conversation as far as I was concerned.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Again, I got screwed by this law...........and you don't care......Millions are getting the screw and you don't care............BY THIS LAW....................

You are AMERICA'S PROBLEM JOE...................

Why do people like you believe it's okay not to obey the Constitution JOE................

Why do you ignore the damage done by the ACA JOE...................

Because you are a Tool............And your side is continuing us down the path of Unsustainable Debt Joe...........Over 400 BILLION a year on the interest on the debt...........and you add more debt by delaying provisions in the law that were damaging businesses.....................Until after the elections.............

Since this law is going to damage them, WHAT IS YOUR SOLUTION..............Delay doesn't fix a dang thing..........

Again, JOE, what is your solution when your side has basically admitted it is needed due to the damage it is causing......................


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 12, 2014)

The only solution I've seen from the left in these debates is the Single Payer system............

That is why they wrote this BS law...........They want to cause damage.............So they will then come in and say the ONLY SOLUTION is the SINGLE PAYER OPTION..................

That is their ultimate goal..............and why this current law was never their real intent.


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## chikenwing (Feb 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> chikenwing said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



But it not so get over it.

Once again,a typical response,my way or the highway,doesn't work that way.

And who is you all?? you are a typical tool,making huge assumptions,with not much to go on.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 12, 2014)

This law is so good they pushed it back again. 

Wasn't this what the shutdown was about?

Pushing this disaster back until after the prick in the Oval Office is in retirement is really a testament to exactly how much good it will end up doing.


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## Geaux4it (Feb 12, 2014)

mudwhistle said:


> This law is so good they pushed it back again.
> 
> Wasn't this what the shutdown was about?
> 
> Pushing this disaster back until after the prick in the Oval Office is in retirement is really a testament to exactly how much good it will end up doing.



 Indeed... The pub party throws Cruz under the bus who Obama has proven was ultimatley right

The new normal

-Geaux


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> [
> 
> Again, I got screwed by this law...........and you don't care......Millions are getting the screw and you don't care............BY THIS LAW....................
> 
> ...



First, whenever I hear some half-ass business tell me that ObamaCare is responsible for their business woes, the first image I get is this..






First and foremost, the amount of businesses actually effected is pretty minimal, just like the number of people who "lost" their coverage was minimal when marginal plans were cancelled.  

91% of businesses with 50-199 employees ALREADY offer health coverage.  99% of business with 200+ employees offer health coverage.  


There were a LOT of solutions.  We could have gone to a SINGLE PAYER system. 

We could have established a PUBLIC OPTION for individuals and small businesses, with means tested payments. 

We could have established a MEDICARE BUY IN for people 55 and older, who represent most of the expendatures by health plans.  

And all of these things were rejected by Republicans because big insurance didn't want them. 


Now, I always find it amazes that the party that turned Clinton's surpluses into Bush's Debts is Suddenly worried about "Debt".  Forget that Obama has cut the deficit in half by ending Bush's wars and repealling Bush's tax cuts.   They are really, really worried about the debt... unless it involves making the 1% who control 43% of the wealth pay their fair share.  

Sure. 

Here's the thing.  Every last one of those countries that has SINGLE PAYER spends about half what we do on health care.   While we spend 14% of our GDP on health care, Japan spends 8%.  

Oh, the Japanese Health Care system is FAR superior to ours, and Japanese people live longer.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

Geaux4it said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > This law is so good they pushed it back again.
> ...



The Pub Party threw Cruz under the bus because he's a douchebag and they all hate him.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

chikenwing said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > chikenwing said:
> ...



Actually, it pretty much is.  

As horrible a candidate as Romney was, no one in the GOP clown car looks any better for 2016.  

There just aren't enough angry old White Chumps you can fool into voting against their own economic interests by saying "Jesus" really sincerely anymore.


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## Geaux4it (Feb 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



And that's why I continue to boycott the Republican party after firing them when the whore Sen Snow sold us down the river

-Geaux


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> The only solution I've seen from the left in these debates is the Single Payer system............
> 
> That is why they wrote this BS law...........They want to cause damage.............So they will then come in and say the ONLY SOLUTION is the SINGLE PAYER OPTION..................
> 
> That is their ultimate goal..............and why this current law was never their real intent.



Guy, the reason why we got this law was because the private system wasn't working. 

And, yes, a Public Option or a Medicare buy in would have taken care of the uninsured/high risk pool while leaving private insurance for the low risk pool, but you guys didn't want that, either.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



LOL

I had a low deduct with Blue Cross Blue Shield...........the rates sky rocketed as a result of the law.............

The answer under the Exchange was a high deduct and virtually cost the same...........

So much for I had a crappy insurance plan before the ACA, as they offer me a HIGH DEDUCT plan to replace mine for almost the same new price.........

I've posted the CBO data on projections in the classes outside of poverty ranges.........They trended at  over 40% increases due to the law......In my case it went up over 60%..............

This has been gone over time and time again on these boards.............

And all the libs like Joe can do is make EXCUSES........Are talking out of their butts..........which is why the ass is a fitting symbol for the Dem party.


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## Geaux4it (Feb 12, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



Indeed- I have also chronicled the increased cost of my health plan too. My insurance increased by$168/month and what I got for it was higher co-pay, hospital stay (first 5 days), prescriptions etc.. Every aspect of my plan saw an increase in cost with no return in service.

I hope the losers who don't pay taxes enjoy the benefits of my labor

-Geaux


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## BlackSand (Feb 12, 2014)

The politicians never cared about anything other than a vote.
They will kick this can down the road as long as they are able ... Kind of like our national debt and the continued raising of the debt ceiling.

.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> LOL
> 
> I had a low deduct with Blue Cross Blue Shield...........the rates sky rocketed as a result of the law.............
> 
> ...



Sounds like your problem is with Blue Cross, not with the ACA.  

Crain's Chicago Business : Subscription Center



> The CEO of the parent of Blue Cross & Blue Shield of Illinois received a 24 percent pay increase in 2012, to $16 million, even as the company's net income declined, according to a filing with state insurance regulators.
> 
> 
> Patricia Hemingway Hall's 2012 base salary was just $1.1 million, but the nurse-turned-executive garnered a $14.9 million bonus. The CEO of Chicago-based Health Care Service Corp. received $12.9 million in 2011.
> ...



Nawwww. it's all ObamaCare's fault.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

BlackSand said:


> The politicians never cared about anything other than a vote.
> They will kick this can down the road as long as they are able ... Kind of like our national debt and the continued raising of the debt ceiling.
> 
> .



Probably.  

I mean, we should have gotten single payer 20 years ago... that would have solved all our problems.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

Geaux4it said:


> [quot
> 
> Indeed- I have also chronicled the increased cost of my health plan too. My insurance increased by$168/month and what I got for it was higher co-pay, hospital stay (first 5 days), prescriptions etc.. Every aspect of my plan saw an increase in cost with no return in service.
> 
> ...



I'm sure they will. 

Because heaven forbid you have to pay for a day in the hospital if it means a poor child might get chemotherapy. 

Got to have our priorities here.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
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> > [
> ...



Dude, you have zero credibility left.


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## BlackSand (Feb 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> > The politicians never cared about anything other than a vote.
> ...



Why would the Progressive Liberals and Democrats be stupid enough to blow their wad on Single Payers now? 
They can get at least another 40 years of traction in polls keeping idiots like you convinced they care about you ... And hanging Single Payer on stick in front of your nose.

.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 12, 2014)

mudwhistle said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



Joe has never had any real credibility............most of the Libs except the hard core boot lickers have left the building on these discussions.........Because they would rather discuss a subject where the facts don't destroy them.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

BlackSand said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > BlackSand said:
> ...



Actually, it's more along the lines of what Big Insurance would allow. 

The thing was, they killed HillaryCare back in the 1990's with the  Harry And Louise Commecials scaring everyone into thinking they'd lose their insurance.  

And then they preceded to make insurance a lot more sucky for everyone.  I remember when people thought HMO's sucked in the 1990's, and now people say they WISH they still had HMO's. Seriously, our human resource lady once said she was glad her husband had an HMO for her pregnancy instead of our crappy PPO plan.  

Big Insurance knows that what they are doing won't go on forever.  So they went along with ObamaCare, and then proceeded to sabotage it at every turn.  

We'll probably get to single payer within a decade, and be better off for it.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

mudwhistle said:


> [
> 
> Dude, you have zero credibility left.



No, guy, the guy who lacks credibility is the one who sucks up a big fat Government Pension Check while doing a government job and renting to poor people with Section 8 vouchers because people with real jobs wouldn't want to live in your roach-infested properties.  

But he'll whine all day about the Government.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> [
> 
> Joe has never had any real credibility............most of the Libs except the hard core boot lickers have left the building on these discussions.........Because they would rather discuss a subject where the facts don't destroy them.



Most of the libs don't bother arguing with you guys because you are so full of hate and racism that you bend over happily and let big insurance sodomize you like Ned Beatty in Deliverence.  

SQUEAL LIKE A PIG, BOY!!!!!

Let's go back to your point that Blue Cross has jacked up your insurance 60%.  

Note- BLUE CROSS. Not Obama, Blue Cross.  So why are you blaming Obama? 

One of two possibilities.  Blue Cross sold you a policy that was worthless, because they had planned to call any serious illness you had a "pre-existing condition" or otherwise cap you out at some arbitrary number.  

Or. 

They just saw an excuse to jack up your rates and blame Obama. 

But it would NEVER OCCUR to you to blame the insurance company.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



YAWN...........

Rate increases due to the law.................

Unless you are a moron......

Hmmmmmmmmm............that might be the reason you can't see it.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



Yeah, I would want something more than magical thinking.  

WHY would the price go up because of the law? 

Could it be that the policy didn't comply? 

or

They were just using it as an excuse to soak you figuring you'd be too lazy to shop around for another product?


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## Bfgrn (Feb 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Joe, always keep in mind who and what you are arguing with...

Geaux4it and friends...


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

I'm always imagining the right being like Christopher Lloyd in Star Trek III

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b1a-hqvGNI]STAR TREK 3 - I...have had...enough of...YOU! - YouTube[/ame]


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 12, 2014)

This clip for Obama............

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miVoe7U6Lx4]Judge Dredd - I NEVER BROKE THE LAW... I AM THE LAW! - YouTube[/ame]


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 12, 2014)

Obama..............

Ignoring the laws one law at a time...........

Even the ones he created...............

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StJS51d1Fzg]it's GOOD to be the KING.flv - YouTube[/ame]


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## BlackSand (Feb 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> I'm always imagining the right being like Christopher Lloyd in Star Trek III



You are a Progressive Liberal which requires you to imagine a lot of things.

.


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## Stephanie (Feb 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



You people are so lame using that...NONE of us were affected with RomneyCare but the people in HIS STATE
now put more lipstick on this pig called, obamaCare and face the facts, the majority of the people HATE IT just like they now do Obama who has a 30 something approval rating


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## chikenwing (Feb 12, 2014)

But small businesses. I really, truly do not give a flip about them. Probably because I have to deal with them all day, and why they can't ever deliver what they promise.

This says a great deal about these type of people.The sad part is small companies are the back bone not large corps.


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## asterism (Feb 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



You didn't answer the question.

Where is the money going to come from?


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## Stephanie (Feb 12, 2014)

sums it up...I've never seen such corrupted, inept government than with this progressive party WITH Obama as the leader...this is just awful nightmare they put this monster on our backs 

SNIP:
Obamacare and the Corruption of the Rule of Law
Townhall.com ^  | February 12, 2014 | Daniel J. Mitchell 




We&#8217;ve reached the stage where Obamacare is the punchline to a bad joke. 

The law has been a disaster, both for the economy and for the Democratic Party. Not that we should be surprised. You don&#8217;t get better healthcare with a poisonous recipe of higher taxes, added government spending, and more intervention. 

With any luck, Obamacare will be a textbook example of why we should never again give power to a bunch of political hacks and dreamy-eyed central planners. 

Because when they try to buy votes and create more dependency with Rube Goldberg schemes, the results are&#8230;well, we seethe cluster-you-know-what of Obamacareunfolding before our eyes. 

Not that anyone should be surprised. Remember what happened when politicians decided government would make housing more affordable? 

And remember what happened when politicians decided government should extend American tax law into other nations? 

Simply stated, grandiose plans for expanded government don&#8217;t end well. 

But this isn&#8217;t a normal public policy issue. 

The Obama Administration has just announced that it arbitrarily will be ignoring one of the requirements in the law, and this is the executive branch&#8217;s 18th unilateral change to Obamacare. 

We have to ask whether the American political system is being corrupted by a White House that doesn&#8217;t feel bound by the rule of law. 

To put it mildly, the Wall Street Journal is not impressed. 

&#8230;the law increasingly means whatever President Obama says it does on any given day. His latest lawless rewrite arrived on Monday as the White House 

all of it here
Stock Market Crash


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

BlackSand said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm always imagining the right being like Christopher Lloyd in Star Trek III
> ...



True, 

I keep imagining people on the right will stop being selfish heartless assholes... 

It might even happen some day.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

asterism said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > asterism said:
> ...



Yes, I did. 

I'm sorry you were too stupid to understand the answer. 

Would it help if I used smaller words?


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> [
> 
> You people are so lame using that...NONE of us were affected with RomneyCare but the people in HIS STATE
> now put more lipstick on this pig called, obamaCare and face the facts, the majority of the people HATE IT just like they now do Obama who has a 30 something approval rating



Uh, Staph, you clowns on the right had no problem with ObamaCare when it was called RomneyCare.  

In fact, Romney said, it should be the model for the nation and you guys lapped that up in 2008.  
Then the black guy did it.


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## HenryBHough (Feb 12, 2014)

Damn fools can't get their act together.

The New Messiah tells small business they don't have to obey HIS law.

HIS bureaucrats spin new federal forms demanding you tell what you're thinking if you lay off some drone.  Thought police to enforce.  (see my signature and try to tell me I'm wrong)

Brilliant.


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## Antares (Feb 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



*WHY would the price go up because of the law? 

Could it be that the policy didn't comply? *

Stupid even for you Joe.

*They were just using it as an excuse to soak you figuring you'd be too lazy to shop around for another product*

....and even more stupid. What you don't know about Insurance fills volumes.


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## HenryBHough (Feb 12, 2014)

Insurance companies felt they had to cover their asses because of stuff like the Obamacare requirement that men have full prenatal and obstetric coverage.  Who knows, some liberal guy on their payroll might turn out to be a tranny someday and actually have a pup or two.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 12, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



Liberal stereotypes.......lol


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

Antares said:


> [
> 
> *WHY would the price go up because of the law?
> 
> ...



There's only ONE THING anyone ever needs to know about an Insurance company. 

They're evil and they are out to cheat you.  

beyond that, there really isn't much to say.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> Insurance companies felt they had to cover their asses because of stuff like the Obamacare requirement that men have full prenatal and obstetric coverage.  Who knows, some liberal guy on their payroll might turn out to be a tranny someday and actually have a pup or two.



Or that they might knock some chick up.  

But it isn't the Maternity coverage that is the issue here.  It doesn't really cost anything.  

What is running up the costs are 

There's no cap on treatment. 

They can't discrminate based on pre-existing conditions. 

In short, they can't cheat you once they have your money.


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## Mr. H. (Feb 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> HenryBHough said:
> 
> 
> > Insurance companies felt they had to cover their asses because of stuff like the Obamacare requirement that men have full prenatal and obstetric coverage.  Who knows, some liberal guy on their payroll might turn out to be a tranny someday and actually have a pup or two.
> ...



Cheat you? Haven't you ever read a health insurance policy?


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## Antares (Feb 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Antares said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



LOL, you really are an idiot.

It is one the most regulated industries in the nation.

Tell me Joe....if an Insurance Company wants to raise rates what is the process?


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## Stephanie (Feb 12, 2014)

Antares said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Antares said:
> ...



poor joey, everyone is out to get him.
you can tell he doesn't own or run a business...and feels people shouldn't be able to profit off it


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

Mr. H. said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > HenryBHough said:
> ...



No, but I've been cheated by an insurance company, which is pretty much the end of the discussion for me.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

Antares said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Antares said:
> ...



Who cares?  

Seriously, guy, I know this is what you do for a living and you shit your pants we might join the civilized world with universal coverage single payer and then you won't have a job... 

But for the rest of us, who cares. 

Clearly, we have Obama Care because private insurance wasn't getting the job done.


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## Stephanie (Feb 12, 2014)

This has turned into a soap opera , the trials and tribulations of Joey

it's just a sad story and miserable life


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> This has turned into a soap opera , the trials and tribulations of Joey
> 
> it's just a sad story and miserable life



No, Staph, I always overcome my challenges.  

But here's the thing. 

There's really no compelling reason for people to worry that an Insurance CEO can buy another Dressage Horse.


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## Stephanie (Feb 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> > This has turned into a soap opera , the trials and tribulations of Joey
> ...



What's it your business what people buy, don't see you complaining  about your wealthy elected idiots who had their wealth (LEFT to them by crooks in the family, take Kennedy Joe and cheating the system, or marrying into it like the gigolo John Kerry)


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## Antares (Feb 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Antares said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Well frankly you deserve to be cheated you are an imbecile.

Nobody cheated you dipshit, you've told your bullshit sob story over and over and nobody cares or believes you.

Truth is you'll get fucked again, its karma...and you have a lot of bullshit to pay for.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> [
> 
> What's it your business what people buy, don't see you complaining  about your wealthy elected idiots who had their wealth (LEFT to them by crooks in the family, take Kennedy Joe and cheating the system, or marrying into it like the gigolo John Kerry)



I would say if you are buying that dressage horse with money you collected from Nataline Sarkisyan's father, and then denied her a liver transplant because it would "cost too much", to the point where she *DIED*, then you kind of are getting into where it's everyone else's business.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2014)

Antares said:


> [
> 
> Well frankly you deserve to be cheated you are an imbecile.
> 
> ...



I'm curious, do you actually have evidence that things are not as I presented them. 

Please, share with the class. 

Or is it "I don't want it to be true, because it makes my industry look like douchebags." 

Every other country has single payer. They live longer, less of their babies die, they spend less, they have less bankruptcies.

Works for me.


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## Antares (Feb 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Antares said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Oh poor Joey......poor poor Joey quit crying and get over it.

If a company wants to raise rates in '15 they have to file with the DOI by May1, used to be it was the DOI's decision, now its DOI and HHS...they CANNOT simply just raise rates as they want to, ALL increases MUST be approved by your beloved Gov.

Companies cannot deny without good reason, they must follow the law to its nth degree.
IF a denial is made the insured has more recourse than the insurer does, as it should be.

You are just a silly, bitter old man.


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## Mr. H. (Feb 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Well EXCUUUUUUUUSE ME!


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## Meister (Feb 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Antares said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Living longer and baby mortality has nothing to do with healthcare insurance no matter what YOU think.


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## Antares (Feb 12, 2014)

Mr. H. said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Mr. H. said:
> ...



Joe never tires of being a whiny ass.


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## william the wie (Feb 12, 2014)

Meister said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Antares said:
> ...


What evidence of thinking are you referring to on his part?


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## Stephanie (Feb 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



touching dramatics  ...but we have a liver donation problem, and you don't know if she was denied a liver by an insurance company...My very good friend died while waiting fo a liver...so get real and stop being so frikken dramatic with everything...lifes a bitch ain't it...waaaa


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## Antares (Feb 12, 2014)

Joe wants sympathy but he is a total asshole, he gets everything he deserves.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 12, 2014)

Obama, he does what he wants........


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLPM-P7mNQw]Cartman - Whateva, I do what I want - YouTube[/ame]


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## Geaux4it (Feb 12, 2014)

mudwhistle said:


> Obama, he does what he wants........
> 
> 
> Cartman - Whateva, I do what I want - YouTube



Indeed

-Geaux


----------



## Politico (Feb 13, 2014)

LoneLaugher said:


> Or....maybe the administration is responding to the needs of small business owners.
> 
> I wonder if any of the outraged among us have taken the time to consider that there is a good reason......not related to the political calendar.....for this action.
> 
> Absent such an effort, your statements ring hollow.



They don't give a shit about small business owners. Their only motivation is political.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 13, 2014)

Meister said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Antares said:
> ...



Well, actually, it does. 

Really kind of simple. 

If you can get in to see a doctor, you are more likely to address problems before they become problems. 

Why you Wingnuts refuse to see this amazes me.


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## Geaux4it (Feb 13, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



I don't get the importance of living longer as a justification for socialism.

Living longer is overrated

-Geaux


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## JoeB131 (Feb 13, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Stephanie said:
> ...



I gave you a specific name.  

And yes, she was denied a liver transplant because her insurance company, Cigna, refused to pay for one on the basis that she only had a 50% chance of living. 

Her father took them to court, but the courts ruled that since the contract was between Cigna and his employer, Lexus (also known as "Douchemobiles") he didn't have standing to sue.  

Finally, mass demonstrations happened outside of Cigna's office, and they finally signed off on a transplant, but by that time the girl was so far gone she died. 

Oh, Wendell Potter, the Vice President for Publicity, was so disgusted by the episode he became an advocate for universal healthcare.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 13, 2014)

Geaux4it said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Meister said:
> ...



Better Dead than Red, eh?  

The 1950's called, they want their Dogma Back.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 13, 2014)

Antares said:


> Joe wants sympathy but he is a total asshole, he gets everything he deserves.



No, douchebag. 

What I want is the system your industry fucked up to get fixed.  

I don't want my health care ever held hostage by an employer ever again.  

Single Payer.  What we should have done from the get-go.


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## Stephanie (Feb 13, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Antares said:
> 
> 
> > Joe wants sympathy but he is a total asshole, he gets everything he deserves.
> ...



You already have single payer, pay for it out your pocket..then you won't be held hostage to ANYONE


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## JoeB131 (Feb 13, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Antares said:
> ...



Or we can just do what every other country does and have single payer, and then I won't have to worry about the year my medical expenses outstripped my annual salary (which is what happened in 2007).  

Sorry, Staph, your whole, "Let them eat Cake" mentality isn't selling.  We are going to take care of people, and you are just going to have to live with it.  

It's not like you are paying taxes from your Double Wide...


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## Geaux4it (Feb 13, 2014)

Again, why should we go out of our way by implementing social medicine for the 47% that pay no taxes? 

-Geaux


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## JoeB131 (Feb 13, 2014)

Geaux4it said:


> Again, why should we go out of our way by implementing social medicine for the 47% that pay no taxes?
> 
> -Geaux



Because it's the decent thing to do? 

Because, honestly, "let them die" really doesn't sit well with decent people. 

But you guys totally go with that.  It worked so well for Romney.


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## Bfgrn (Feb 13, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> sums it up...I've never seen such corrupted, inept government than with this progressive party WITH Obama as the leader...this is just awful nightmare they put this monster on our backs
> 
> SNIP:
> Obamacare and the Corruption of the Rule of Law
> ...



"To put it mildly, the Wall Street Journal is not impressed."

Are we supposed to give a fuck? That should make everyone happy! 

Wall Street investors hijacked the health insurance industry and created REAL death panels. Why are you right wing turds so fucking stupid?

Wendell Potter on Profits Before Patients

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A03HyG3RGnQ]Former Cigna executive: Health insurance industry has become "a giant ATM for Wall Street" - YouTube[/ame]


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## Geaux4it (Feb 13, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > Again, why should we go out of our way by implementing social medicine for the 47% that pay no taxes?
> ...



Romney is a douche and I did not vote for him

I would choose to leave the descriptive adjective out and just call them 'people'

EDIT- If I give you something (Obamacare) or any other product, I have given you incentive not to try and obtain product on your own.
-Geaux


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## JoeB131 (Feb 13, 2014)

Geaux4it said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...



No, really the adjective is needed. 

Most DECENT people realize that we don't let people die of treatable diseases because no one is making a profit off of it.  

Then you have people who read too much Ayn Rand and think that person's value is based on their bank accounts and assets, and sadly, those people are animating the zombie corpse of the GOP today. 

The basic question is, should health care be a public service (such as fire fighting or policing) or should it be a consumer commodity (you can only have as much as you can afford.)

In principle, we really already had this discussion.  Medicare, Medicaid, Schip, the VA, - programs set up to provide health care to the elderly, the poor and veterans. 

Now it's only a discussion of how to most effectively deliver these services.


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## Stephanie (Feb 13, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



You can also frikken move to a country with Socialist health care so none of us will have to pay for you or listen to constant whining.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 13, 2014)

Geaux4it said:


> [
> 
> EDIT- If I give you something (Obamacare) or any other product, I have given you incentive not to try and obtain product on your own.
> -Geaux




Perhaps.  

But this is my perspective.  

I actually did try to obtain that product on my own. I worked for the nameless company for six years.  I worked Saturdays, I worked 12 hour days.  the day that I injured my knee that was the source of one of my medical issues I was one my way to work.  

And guess what, when I went back to make claims against that insurance I thought I had earned, I had to fight the insurance company tooth and nail.  I had one occassion where my boss told me I had to put off a surgery for a month because he couldn't spare me for one day during a computer transition. 

And at the end of it all, they ended up cutting me like they cut any employee who had medical issues, because that's the kind of company it was. 

You really can't go out there and claim "earning" is a virtue when you have so much of the system designed to cheat you out of what you've earned.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 13, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> [
> 
> You can also frikken move to a country with Socialist health care so none of us will have to pay for you or listen to constant whining.



Or we can just IMPOSE socialist health care on you stupid bible thumping inbreds. 

Works for me.  I'm really tired of trying to reason with you wingnuts.  No more playing nice with you.


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## Geaux4it (Feb 13, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...





> Most DECENT people realize that we don't let people die of treatable diseases because no one is making a profit off of it.


Um, no... they may die because they did not pay for the care



> Then you have people who read too much Ayn Rand and think that person's value is based on their bank accounts and assets, and sadly, those people are animating the zombie corpse of the GOP today.



Meh, a persons value equates to the sweat off his brow. 



> The basic question is, should health care be a public service (such as fire fighting or policing) or should it be a consumer commodity (you can only have as much as you can afford.)



Yep- And we are on different sides of the answer

-Geaux


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## JoeB131 (Feb 13, 2014)

Geaux4it said:


> [
> 
> 
> Um, no... they may die because they did not pay for the care



Actually, 62% of bankruptcies are due to medical crisis, and in 75% of those cases, the family had medical insurance when the crisis started.  So , no, what you are advocating is that people deserve to die if they don't have enough money, which is bullshit.  





Geaux4it said:


> [
> 
> 
> > Then you have people who read too much Ayn Rand and think that person's value is based on their bank accounts and assets, and sadly, those people are animating the zombie corpse of the GOP today.
> ...



Somehow, I think that the girl working in McDonalds has a lot more sweat on her Brow than Stepford Ann Romney riding her Dressage Horsie.  I'm just saying.  Wealth isn't fairly or evenly distributed and you know it.  




Geaux4it said:


> [
> 
> 
> > The basic question is, should health care be a public service (such as fire fighting or policing) or should it be a consumer commodity (you can only have as much as you can afford.)
> ...



No, I'm on the right side of the answer. Not only the right side morally but the right side historically.  

We are the last country without single payer. Only a m atter of time, really.


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## Stephanie (Feb 13, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...




yeah, well we are also still A FREE fucking country...You can choose to pay for your health CARE or NOT...I wasn't born in this country to take care of your ass while trying to take care of my family too
You are also FREE to move to a county that has Socialist health care


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## JoeB131 (Feb 13, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> [
> 
> 
> yeah, well we are also still A FREE fucking country...You can choose to pay for your health CARE or NOT...I wasn't born in this country to take care of your ass while trying to take care of my family too
> You are also FREE to move to a county that has Socialist health care



I'm reasonably sure that I probably pay more in taxes than you do. Probably earn more, too.  

Also, it's kind of silly to talk about "socialist" health care when private insurance plans are just as "socialist" as a government program.  

Either you are paying in more than you are taking out, or you are taking out more than you are paying in.  

The only difference between Cigna and MediCare is that the director of Medicare doesn't get a nine-figure bonus for figuring out ways to cheat your daughter out of her liver transplant when she gets sick. 

Ed Hanaway, the CEO of Cigna, did get a nine-figure severance package after implementing "redaction" policies of calling things "Pre-existing conditions" or in the case of Nataline Sarkisyan, an "expiramental procedure".


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## Stephanie (Feb 13, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



well if you pay more in taxes then YOU SHOULD be able to afford to pay for your own damn health care...loser


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## JoeB131 (Feb 13, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Stephanie said:
> ...



Well, actually, I do.  I earn them through my job.  

What I can't do is have absolute certainty that an Ed Hanaway isn't going to cheat me at the first oppurtunity, which is pretty much what Cigna did after I paid for health insurance at the last job.  

Unless we just chuck private insurance and go to single payer like every sensible country has done.


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## Meister (Feb 13, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Well, actually it doesn't.
Really kind of simple.

We have the best healthcare in the world, bar none.
Different countries count live births differently than we do.
Longevity deals with issues far beyond healthcare, such as auto accidents, etc.  

Now get back and get some sound talking points from whatever echo chamber you creep around.


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## william the wie (Feb 13, 2014)

Joe, the OP is about Obama's implicit admission that Ocare is a disaster.


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## billyerock1991 (Feb 13, 2014)

Mac1958 said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



you do realize that this is for 2% of the companies that will be effected don't you... the rest of the 98% arn't affected ... it amazes me how stupid you republicansa reall are ... have ya heard anything from those whiners about losing thier health care ??? the whining has come to a halt... why ???? they are finding out that their catastrophic plan they had does nothing for them accept take their money ...


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## william the wie (Feb 13, 2014)

Yeah Bill, the Titanic (Ocare) is unsinkable. You tell everyone.


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## tennisbum (Feb 13, 2014)

I wonder how long Billy will step up and defend this "cluster f"....


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## william the wie (Feb 13, 2014)

tennisbum said:


> I wonder how long Billy will step up and defend this "cluster f"....


Till he gets his suicide bomber ceritificate?


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## JoeB131 (Feb 13, 2014)

Meister said:


> [
> 
> Well, actually it doesn't.
> Really kind of simple.
> ...



Lowest life expectency in the INdustrialized World.
Highest infant mortality in the industrialized world 
46 million uninsured and 25 million underinsured. 
62% of bankruptcies due to medical crisis.
Highest spend per capita and per GDP % on health care. 

So, no, the talking points about 'they count infant mortality differently" and "We have more auto accidents (we don't, by the way. Italy does.)


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## Pepe (Feb 13, 2014)

The original cost estimate from the GAO was based on information received from the Democrat majority who had a vested interest in low balling the numbers.

So, in this short time the numbers go from a 2 trillion surplus to a two trillion addition to our unsustainable National Debt over the next 10 years.

History either repeats or rhymes and I recall with great clarity being home on leave before going overseas in 1965 and watching LBJ live on the B&W TV that Medicate would NEVER cost more than 8 billion per year.

It does not take an Old Testament Prophet to realize that this Program is unsustainable.

Hell. Part A of Medicare has been in the Red for six years.

Part B will be in the Red very soon as 10K "Boomers" per day Retire for the next 16 years.

Social Security (Old Age) has been "borrowing" one dollar for every four in benefits paid out which by the way is unlawful. 

The Disability Trust Fund will run dry in or before 2016.

The odds are not in favor of anyone's hard stand on O'Care.


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## Meister (Feb 13, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Apples to apples with infant mortality....we rank second in the world behind Canada with infant mortality.

Longevity has more to do with our culture.  I gave auto accidents as an "example"....seems I will have to be more specific....such as gun deaths especially in the "hoods" across America.  Obesity, smoking and heart disease (our culture).


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## HenryBHough (Feb 13, 2014)

Could simply indicate that Canadian women are more hardy.

Then, what age is plugged into the averaging equation for each aborted baby?  That alone could be really screwing up the reality of longevity.


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## Bfgrn (Feb 14, 2014)

Pepe said:


> The original cost estimate from the GAO was based on information received from the Democrat majority who had a vested interest in low balling the numbers.
> 
> So, in this short time the numbers go from a 2 trillion surplus to a two trillion addition to our unsustainable National Debt over the next 10 years.
> 
> ...



Links???


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## Bfgrn (Feb 14, 2014)

Meister said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Meister said:
> ...



Give me ONE example of a nation that has a free market heath care system that ISN'T among the highest cost per capita?


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## Mac1958 (Feb 14, 2014)

billyerock1991 said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> > .
> ...




I'll try to keep this simple, ironic since I'm dealing with a person who is so regularly willing to call others "stupid".

Please note that I said, "does anyone doubt they'll back it up to 2017 for the election?"

Gosh, what in the world could I have meant by that?  Well, I meant that this is clearly a political move to mitigate the damage the ACA is doing to Democrat 2014 candidates, and to potential 2016 candidates.  See, whether it effects 2% or 98%, the figure is irrelevant.  The point is the blatantly transparent, political behavior here.

I hope that's simple enough for you.

"Stupid".  How deliciously ironic.

My goodness.  How old are you?

.


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## william the wie (Feb 14, 2014)

The politics of the ACA make it stupid for the GOP to ever actually repeal or reform this POS. However being the Dumb branch of the Dumb and Dumber duopoly does make it possible.


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## Meister (Feb 14, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



What are the tax rates of those countries?  Yeah, I thought so.


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## Andylusion (Feb 14, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Give me ONE example of a nation that has a free market heath care system that ISN'T among the highest cost per capita?



This point alone drives me crazy.

There are two ways I can reduce the cost per capita of water.

One, is I can create a system the produces more water, at a lower cost.

Two, is a I can reduce the amount of water produced.

Both of those will reduce how much money per population, is spent on water.

But one, provides more water to more people, while the other reduces the amount of water to fewer people.

When you say "how much are they spending per capita on health care", how do you know it's because their health care at our quality is lower priced, rather than because they SIMPLY GET LESS CARE?






Are they getting the same quality of care we are?  No, they are not.  Our survival rates are higher than anywhere else in the world.

The reason they cost of health care per capita is lower, is because they are getting less care.

It's like their dentistry costs per capita are lower in the UK.... yeah... cause they are pulling their teeth out with pliers.

Lack of NHS dentists forces patients abroad - Telegraph
Seven million patients can't find a dentist on the NHS for two years | Mail Online
Brits resort to pulling own teeth - CNN.com
BBC News | HEALTH | DIY dentistry to the rescue





Welcome to DentaNurse, UK Ltd

This is not a joke.  This is not a gag.    This is a real product, Do-It-Yourself Dental kit.   Fix broken, chipped teeth, fillings, crowns, and bridges.   For the UK citizen who can't get a dentist.

*THIS*..... is free health care.    *THIS* is lower cost per capita.

I'll take the US system over that, any day.


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## william the wie (Feb 14, 2014)

Meister, how do you expect to explain creative public expenditure accounting to posters who do not understand accounting? Just wondering.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 15, 2014)

Meister said:


> [
> 
> Apples to apples with infant mortality....we rank second in the world behind Canada with infant mortality.



No, we don't.  

Report: US Infant Mortality Rate Twice That of Other Wealthy Nations - Parenting.com

I hear statistics like that and I think, arent we supposed to be better? asks pediatrician Gwenn OKeeffe, M.D., author, health journalist, and CEO of Pediatrics Now. Why dont we have universal coverage? Why dont we have that low death rate? Were going backward.

The US has been known to have a low birth rate and higher infant mortality rate for some time, says Ana Diez Roux, a professor of epidemiology at the University of Michigan School of Public Health. 

There are obviously multiple sets of factors working together, she says. This is so systemic and pervasive and we didnt think the public is really aware of the magnitude of this problem.





Meister said:


> [
> Longevity has more to do with our culture.  I gave auto accidents as an "example"....seems I will have to be more specific....such as gun deaths especially in the "hoods" across America.  Obesity, smoking and heart disease (our culture).



So you are coming out for gun control?  Didn't think so. 

Wow, this isn't really complicated.  When you can't see a doctor on a regular basis, you are more likely to have compounded health issues.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 15, 2014)

Meister said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Meister said:
> ...



Yeah, it probably sucks to be rich in those countries. 

Hey, here's the thing. I don't give a fuck about the rich. Anything bad happening to a rich person is a cause for celebration.


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## Meister (Feb 15, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



Yup, that pretty much sums up the liberal mantra.


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## Meister (Feb 15, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Other countries don't count premature deaths nor do they count birth defects (we do) which by your article is the leading cause.  You've shown nothing with your attempt, Joe.
I stand by my apples to apples remark.


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## Antares (Feb 15, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



Ain't you jis all tough and shit?


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## Meister (Feb 15, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Oh, again from your link:

Americans of all ages fared worse than the 16 other rich countries  Canada, Japan, Australia and 13 European countries  in a number of other areas: injury and homicide rates, teen pregnancy and sexually transmitted disesases, HIV infection and AIDS, drug abuse, and heart and lung disease. Two-thirds of Americans are considered overweight or obese. 

*This cant be traced to the health care system, says Diez Roux. Its much more than the health care system.*
Report: US Infant Mortality Rate Twice That of Other Wealthy Nations - Parenting.com

Like I said....it's our culture.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 15, 2014)

Meister said:


> [
> 
> Other countries don't count premature deaths nor do they count birth defects (we do) which by your article is the leading cause.  You've shown nothing with your attempt, Joe.
> I stand by my apples to apples remark.



You can stand by it, but the problem is, no agency that counts such things supports it, not even our own CIA, which rates our infant mortality rate above that of other countries.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 15, 2014)

Meister said:


> [
> 
> Oh, again from your link:
> 
> ...



Yeah, a culture that considers health care a consumer commodity rather than a public service.

Has it occurred to you the reason why all those other bad things are happening is because we aren't getting people in for regular checkups?


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## JoeB131 (Feb 15, 2014)

Antares said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Meister said:
> ...



NOt  matter of tough, guy. 

It's a matter of "We shouldn't accept dead children because a few rich assholes want to ride dressage horsies".  

At least in a just society.


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## Antares (Feb 15, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Antares said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Joe Quixote...tilting at the rich windmills responsible for imaginary evils.....


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## Meister (Feb 15, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Has it occurred to you that it isn't healthcare insurance?????????  Most people have regular checkups and still the problems exist.  All the numbers aren't stemming from what you think is lack of insurance.  It's OUR CULTURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Meister (Feb 15, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


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Infant Mortality: A Deceptive Statistic | National Review Online
The REAL infant mortality rates and H.R. 3200 | Birth a Miracle Services

Like I said, apples to apples


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## JoeB131 (Feb 15, 2014)

Meister said:


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> Has it occurred to you that it isn't healthcare insurance?????????  Most people have regular checkups and still the problems exist.  All the numbers aren't stemming from what you think is lack of insurance.  It's OUR CULTURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Nope, hasn't occurred to me at all.  

If you aren't seeing a doctor regularly, you wouldn't have the nagging.  My doctor nagged me about my weight until I did something about it.  

But keep telling yourself that those poor people don't deserve to see doctors.


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## Harry Dresden (Feb 15, 2014)

tennisbum said:


> I wonder how long Billy will step up and defend this "cluster f"....



Billy?.....aint that David Spade?....


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## Harry Dresden (Feb 15, 2014)

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*Lowest life expectency in the INdustrialized World.*
has more to do with the Individual Joe than Health Care.....


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## Harry Dresden (Feb 15, 2014)

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and how many people have Ins. and do not see a Doctor until its either too late or really serious?....how many men over 50 have you heard say they WILL NOT go for a prostate exam or a Colonoscopy because....."no one is going to stick anything up my ass"......i worked with a guy who called me and another guy "faggots" for having it done...."no one is sticking anything in my ass....i will die first".....and he has ins.......and pisses a lot....


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## asterism (Feb 15, 2014)

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You don't want your healthcare held hostage by an employer, but you're happy to have it held hostage by government.


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## william the wie (Feb 15, 2014)

I have had a colonscopy (infectious colitis the first time) and as long as I'm under I don't care. but when it comes to prostate exams and mammograms efficacy has not been demonstrated. like with angioplasty and bypass surgery I attribute the persistence of such exams to the desire to do "something" for the patient even if it is stupid. ACA is chock full of such dubious procedures that will answer some questions in blood.


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## Andylusion (Feb 15, 2014)

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Dude.... *YOU* are the rich.     Compared to the rest of the world, *YOU* are the rich.


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## Andylusion (Feb 15, 2014)

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Isn't that so typical?   The leftards don't even read their own links, to find out it contradicts their presumptions.


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## Meister (Feb 15, 2014)

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It went rightover your head what I was saying.


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## Harry Dresden (Feb 15, 2014)

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how many people dont do what their Doctor tells them to Joe?....how many DONT lose the weight?.....how many DONT quit smoking?.....how many still eat shit instead of changing their diet?.....how many dont exercise?.....how many people either DONT do what their Doctor recommends or they do it half assed?......America has many people who have Ins. but either dont see the Doctor or do when its to late or dont listen to what he tells them........is that because of their health care?...or because of the person?...


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## JoeB131 (Feb 16, 2014)

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Major difference. 

I can vote teh government out if it isn't doing its job.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 16, 2014)

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NO, I just get really tired of you conservatives blaming average working Americans for the Screwover your Corporate Masters inflict on us every day.


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## Andylusion (Feb 16, 2014)

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No, I just get really tired of you leftards blaming the people who provide jobs and wealth in our country, for the screwover you and your socialist masters inflict on us every day.

Hey stupid, I am the average working American.  You don't get to speak for me.   And I have yet to be screwed over by a corporation, but I get screwed over by *YOU* and the dumbass idiots you support every day.   

Right now I have a $3,000 tax bill, and I made only $18,000 last year.  Who is screwing me over, the corporations that gave me a job, and a wage, or the mindless dumb as hell leftards like you?   Answer, you.   You screw over the average working Americans more than the corporations ever will, or ever have.

You people have the highest standard of living on the planet, and all you can do is complain.  Envious greedy, mindless idiots, all of you.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 16, 2014)

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Guy, if you only made 18K last year, you are definitely siding with the wrong people.  

I won't even talk abuot your taxes... obviously, you don't know what you are doing.


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## Meister (Feb 16, 2014)

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What in hell does your post have to do with doctors and healthcare, Joe?????
Get your ass handed to you and so you change the subject and move on to another point from your socialist bag of talking points?   

You don't like people who are rich, I get that.  I'm glad I live in a country where we can work hard and save money and be able to accumulate wealth.
You should have tried it instead of complaining that others are more successful than you in life.  Quit your whining, son.


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## asterism (Feb 16, 2014)

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How's that working out with regards to your wishes on tax and labor?


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## JoeB131 (Feb 16, 2014)

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No, guy, you see, I didn't change the subject.  The subject is, why have you guys turned what SHOULD be a public service into a consumer commodity to exploit people with.  

Every other country has figured it out. Everyone gets health care, the government pays for it and controls cost. 

Except this country, where it's a contest between Big Pharma, Big Insurance and Big Health Care as to which one can squeeze the most money out of consumers who work themselves into early graves.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 16, 2014)

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Pretty fucking well, we voted out the GOP, and those things are getting better.  

True, we haven't fixed everything Bush fucked up, that's going to take a very long time.


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## dblack (Feb 16, 2014)

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'Specially with leaders intent on fucking it up even worse.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 16, 2014)

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you know what, guy.  Every metric indicates we are better off in 2014 than we were in 2009, when Bush handed off a wrecked country to Obama.  

Has Obama been a great president? Not really.  Has he done well with a messed up situation he inherited? Yup.


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## Harry Dresden (Feb 16, 2014)

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yes you did Joe.....you were saying a few posts back that if everyone had healthcare America gets healthier.....thats true ONLY to those who would actually go for regular check ups and do what they are told to do......you were countered with .....how many people right now have Ins. and either dont use it or wait until its to late or things are serious or use it but dont do what they are supposed to do anyway?....how many people right now without Ins. if they now have it will be any different?....


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## dblack (Feb 16, 2014)

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Metrics? What sort of metrics measure the explosive growth of the surveillance state? The NSA surveillance? The sellout of our health care to corporate whores?

Thing is, Joe, I actually had hope that when Obama was elected he might reverse the damage Bush did - and he hasn't. He's doubled down on every shitty thing Bush did.


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## Harry Dresden (Feb 16, 2014)

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he is also about as an effective a "leader" as Bush was.....basically BOTH were and are two piss poor "leaders"....


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## JoeB131 (Feb 16, 2014)

Harry Dresden said:


> yes you did Joe.....you were saying a few posts back that if everyone had healthcare America gets healthier.....thats true ONLY to those who would actually go for regular check ups and do what they are told to do......you were countered with .....how many people right now have Ins. and either dont use it or wait until its to late or things are serious or use it but dont do what they are supposed to do anyway?....how many people right now without Ins. if they now have it will be any different?....



The problem with that theory is that you probably have, statistically, just as many Canadians or Germans who live unhealthy lifestyles or don't follow their doctor's advice.  

The notion that "lifestyle" is an explainer is kind of silly.  I think the fact that one out of four Americans either has no health coverage or health coverage that is so shitty they might as well be burning their money is a much bigger factor in why we have such crappy results. 

We have people who literally have to choose between medicine and food.  this really happens.


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## asterism (Feb 16, 2014)

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Interesting.

Are unions stronger now than in 2009?  Is the tax structure better in your opinion?

5 years is a long time to wait for a change in your individual healthcare situation.  I don't understand why you don't see that.


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## Meister (Feb 16, 2014)

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So the government pays for it?????????  No, the people pay for it.
It ain't free dude, someone is paying for it and it ain't the government.  
Those countries that have socialized healthcare are getting sub par services from it.
Long waits and rationed care in many areas of it......not to mention high tax rates and fees for those countries.  But, a socialist like yourself will only see what he wants....your ideology is blinding you.

Too bad you didn't take advantage of what this great nation's liberties afforded you.  Now you want others who did take advantage of the possibilities to subsidize you because of your lack of effort.  That is pathetic....kind of parasitic if you think about it.


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## Andylusion (Feb 16, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Guy, if you only made 18K last year, you are definitely siding with the wrong people.
> 
> I won't even talk abuot your taxes... obviously, you don't know what you are doing.



LOL!   Perfect!   Exactly what I expect from the self-righteous and arrogant left.

You sit there and claim to support the little people, self proclaimed supporters of the lower class.

Then the moment one of the lower class tells you how it really is, and tells you they don't support you,  you start to mock them.   Oh, I don't know what I'm doing.   I'm just not as smart and brilliant as you arrogant leftards.

No sorry.  Take your high horse crap, and jump off a cliff.   Your the one that doesn't know what you are doing.  You are the reason I have these taxes, to pay for your crap programs.


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## Andylusion (Feb 16, 2014)

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Those things?   Taxes are higher now, than before, on the lowest class of people.    That's "better" in your world?   We need to vote the GOP back in.

And by the way.... you and your children, and their children are going to have to pay back that $17 Trillion we now owe, thanks to your "things getting better" crap.


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## Harry Dresden (Feb 16, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


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> ...



nice dance Joe......


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## JoeB131 (Feb 16, 2014)

Meister said:


> [
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> So the government pays for it?????????  No, the people pay for it.
> It ain't free dude, someone is paying for it and it ain't the government.
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Yeah, sub-par service where they live longer and less of their babies die in the crib.  

That kind of sub-par service.  Oh, yeah, and they spend half per capita what we do and everyone is covered.  

Oh, yeah, and the 1% who have 43% of the wealth didn't do 43 of the physical labor.  By my reckoning, they got it ripping off the rest of us who did do the work.  And that I support a system that makes sure that everyone gets their fair share, you can scream socialism all day, I call it common decency. 

When the children of the rich have to go to the same hospitals and the same schools as the rest of us, that's when we fix the problems.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 16, 2014)

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Yes, we have to pay back all the money Bush gave to his rich cronies at the Banks and Halliburton, don't we? 

But go back and whine about your $18,000 burger flipping job, guy.


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## Meister (Feb 16, 2014)

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You weren't whining when Clinton used Halliburton, were you? Of course you weren't.


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## Meister (Feb 16, 2014)

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Just keep ignoring the facts, Joe.   
At least you don't deny that you're a socialist.  I give you credit for that.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 16, 2014)

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I think you clowns have so rendered the word "Socialist" meaningless by bantering it around instead of engaging in meaningful debate. 

So yes or no, should we let a child die of a treatable disease beause there is no profit to be made in treating her?  

And if your answer involves, "Well, there are other ways of doing it", then you are as much a socialist as I am. 

If your answer involves, "Hell, yeah!", I think you need to take a look at your values.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 16, 2014)

Meister said:


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> You weren't whining when Clinton used Halliburton, were you? Of course you weren't.



Well, no, but under Clinton we weren't pissing away a trillion dollars trying to avenge Bush's Daddy.


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## Meister (Feb 16, 2014)

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But, but, but big corporations?????  You sound like a hypocrite.


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## Meister (Feb 16, 2014)

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You are for the redistribution of wealth. 
 We have safety nets for those who need the care, Joe, despite what your echo chamber tells you. Nobody wants to take that away from them.  At the end of the day with obummercare there will roughly the same amount of people without coverage.
And, no I am not a socialist like you.  I want as much government out of my life as I can (that doesn't mean entirely).  You want more government in your life as possible, I can only assume you can't take care of yourself.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 16, 2014)

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No, I just have something called "Perspective".  

I don't have a problem with using contractors to do service and support work rather than conscripting people to do it.   We've done that all through our history. 

I do have a big problem when that contractor puts it's man (Cheney) in the White House, and he lobbies for a war where his former company profits.  

It's really "Crony Capitalism", dude...


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## asterism (Feb 16, 2014)

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True.  That money was used to wag the dog to distract people away from a massive lie about a blowjob.  Did you know that Clinton actually signed a law calling for the removal of Saddam Hussein?


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## JoeB131 (Feb 16, 2014)

Meister said:


> []
> You are for the redistribution of wealth.
> We have safety nets for those who need the care, Joe, despite what your echo chamber tells you. Nobody wants to take that away from them.  At the end of the day with obummercare there will roughly the same amount of people without coverage.
> And, no I am not a socialist like you.  I want as much government out of my life as I can (that doesn't mean entirely).  You want more government in your life as possible, I can only assume you can't take care of yourself.



Guy, the only time I took anything from the GOvernment is when I was in the US Army defending it so miserable greedy cocksuckers could make a profit. 

The "Safety Nets" are inadequate.  Even Republicans have admitted this. 

And, yes, I think that when you have 1% of the population with 43% of the wealth, the wealth needs to be redistributed, especially if very basic needs are not being met.  

Now, if you want to complain that the welfare system has a lot of problems, I agree, it does. Unfortunately, the reason why you have such a large welfare state is that the wealthy made this promise if you cut their taxes and deregulated their industries, prosperity would follow. 

It didn't.


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## Meister (Feb 16, 2014)

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Do you care to comment on Obama's "cronies"?  Or, throwing billions at his donors companies is any different, "dude"?  See, if you look at it with perspective....you really are a hypocrite.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 16, 2014)

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Which one was that, now?  

Was that the one where he tried to go after that guy, oh, what was his name, "Bin Laden" or something like that and GOP Republicans all screamed he was "wagging the dog".  

Honestly, I wish for a time when the worst thing we had to worry about was whether the President was getting a blow job.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 16, 2014)

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Did anyone die because his "cronies" made money?


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## Meister (Feb 16, 2014)

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Our government over regulates industries, sorry you can't see that.  Over regulates to the point where it screws with our economy....as you have seen under your messiah.
The 1% pay plenty in their taxes, in fact by far the lion's share....it's just not enough for you and your ilk.  You have a disdain for the wealthy while it should be an incentive to you but, it isn't.  You just want to eliminate the wealthy and have low and middle class of people who have to depend on the government.  You think Pelosi and Boxer would ever give up their wealth???????  Of course not and it won't happen, the elite will always be the elite, it's just that the government will make it where nobody else will be able to attain wealth.


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## Meister (Feb 16, 2014)

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You are PATHETIC!  Why are you moving the goal posts dude?  Because you can't admit it????  Hypocrite
I'm done with your bullshit.   Just be thankful you weren't in Jonestown, you would be a willing dupe.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 16, 2014)

Meister said:


> [
> Our government over regulates industries, sorry you can't see that.  Over regulates to the point where it screws with our economy....as you have seen under your messiah.
> The 1% pay plenty in their taxes, in fact by far the lion's share....it's just not enough for you and your ilk.  You have a disdain for the wealthy while it should be an incentive to you but, it isn't.  You just want to eliminate the wealthy and have low and middle class of people who have to depend on the government.  You think Pelosi and Boxer would ever give up their wealth???????  Of course not and it won't happen, the elite will always be the elite,* it's just that the government will make it where nobody else will be able to attain wealth*.



Sorry, dude, what I saw happen was the economy got screwed with because conservatives insisted repealling all the regulations that were put on banking and investment after the Great Depression was a good idea.  Instead, we got a reminder of why they were put there to start with.  

And, no, sorry, the country ran a lot better when the rich paid a lot more than they do now. 

Under that Commie bastard Eisenhower, the top rate was 93%.  We did just fine. 

I do find the bolded sentence to be interesting.   It's the cry of every Conservative who thinks that if he prays to St. Ayn of Rand hard enough, and is enough of a dick to his fellows, he too can be rich, if the government doesn't stop him.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 16, 2014)

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Dude, it was a valid question.  

In addition to those who died in the war, there wre those who died because of faulty wiring that Halliburton put in or contaminated water Halliburton didn't purify correctly.


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## oreo (Feb 17, 2014)

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Look Boooosh is no longer the President and he hasn't been for the last 6 years.  

*Obama has a 6 year real record--and his record SUCKS.*  Get over it. He has spent a ton of taxpayer dollars--that (went to large donors of his campaign) on green energy Solyndra--that flopped leaving us holding the bag.  He made up a lot of bull shit about some video that caused the death of 4 Americans in Bengazi.  He borrowed and spent 878 Billion dollars on the  "Jobs recovery" Act--promising that it would create millions of jobs--and 6 years later We Have No Jobs.

Now Obama is threatening business's in this country--that if they lay off someone or cut their hours--the IRS will be breathing down their necks.  _What business is going to expand their business and hire more employees knowing that?_ 

Now Obama has postponed the employer mandate AGAIN- until 2016-because our community organizer President--finally realized it will cost millions of jobs in this country--as employers will either cut back hours to no more than 29 hours per week--or simply just start laying off workers.

*This is the guy you voted for twice.*  Don't blame it on G.W. Bush--he didn't push that button for you.  YOU did it.







*Welcome to your hope and change!*


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## JoeB131 (Feb 17, 2014)

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THis isn't the guy I voted for twice, I only voted for him in 2012 because you dumb shits nominated a Mormon.  

Also, for all the whining about pushing back the mandate, you have to realize just how few businesses it actually effects.  91% of businesses with 50-199 Employees and 99% of businesses with 200 employees or more ALREADY provide health coverage.   So we aren't really talking abuot "Millions" of jobs.  

As for the IRS, they are making sure that ObamaCare doesn't become the Dog that Ate Everyone's Homework.  

"Well, I got to lay 10 of you off because of ObamaCare!"

"Hey, isn't that a new Lamborghini you just bought, Boss?"


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