# Help! I might have to buy a car...



## Kooshdakhaa (Sep 19, 2013)

My 1993 Chevy Lumina sedan is in the shop for the fourth time in the last month.  It only has 69,000 miles on it, but it is 20 years old.  My job is moving across town and I need dependable transportation.

I am thinking Kia Sorrento or Hyundai Santa Fe.  Either purchase or lease, I guess you can get really good lease terms on a Santa Fe.  Could be brand new or slightly used.

The reason I am zeroing on these cars is their awesome warranty, 10 years/100,000 miles on the power train.  The Santa Fe also has a concurrent 5 year bumper to bumper warranty on all the electronics, etc. - not sure if the Sorrento also has that, but I'll be checking.  And I like these tough looking little SUVs.  

I've never financed a car before!  Always bought older ones and paid cash, but now I want something very dependable.

Any tips or warnings of things to watch out for?  Are they going to try and trick me or take advantage of me?


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## Politico (Sep 19, 2013)

You never financed a new one before no need to start now.


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## DGS49 (Sep 19, 2013)

Essentially all new cars are pretty good, and the nature of major failures is that they will probably occur in the first year, so they will be covered under warranty regardless of which one you choose.

Leasing will put a limit on the number of miles you drive, so keep that in mind as you decide.  The only time it is smart to lease is when the manufacturer is desperate to get its cars on the road, and is offering exceptional rates.  They do this by using "optimistic" residual values on their cars.  But if you are leasing, you don't care, it works to your benefit.  The cars in this category right now are VW and especially BUICK.  If you can live with a small car, and the restrictions of a lease, the Buick Verano is an exceptional value right now.  Or any VW.

If you are leaning to a small SUV, the best one, all things considered, is the Honda CRV.  It is reliable, economical, nice looking, and has the best resale value.  The Subaru Forester is also a good choice (there are no BAD choices in this segment).  The sportiest one is the Mazda CX5, but be sure to get the 185 HP engine, the other one is a pig.

Just for fun, you might want to have a look at a Buick Encore.  It is tiny but relatively luxurious and economical.  And being a Buick, you can probably lease one at a very good price.

One additional point: note: if you don't NEED 4WD or AWD traction, then don't buy a small SUV or "crossover."  They have relatively poor economy, they don't handle as well as a car, and in fact they are not as comfortable.  Don't buy one just because they are fashionable right now.

Any of the small and mid-sized sedans out right now should be an economical and reliable car.  If you are OK with the size of your Lumina, my top recommendations would be the Kia Optima, VW Passat, Honda Accord, or (I hate to even type this), Toyota Camry.  They will all be fine for you.

If you are in a position to buy a car without trading your Lumina (sell it on craigslist), you are in a GREAT position to get a good deal, so don't waste it.

Decide what you want by looking and driving different vehicles, but don't make any commitments after the test drives.  When you have decided which car you want, go to Edmunds.com and spec out that car, asking for bids from all of the local dealers.  When you do that, you will get priced bids from the "internet sales managers" of those dealerships.  Imagine that:  they will be competing for your business!  All of the prices will be low and competitive, so your final choice should generally be based on the location and reputation of the dealers.  But remember that if you get a much better price from a distant dealer it's OK to buy it there and then have it serviced by the dealer closest to you.  Believe me, they will be happy to work on your car.

Happy hunting!


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## Pop23 (Sep 19, 2013)

^^^^^Great advise^^^^^^


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## Mr. H. (Sep 19, 2013)

Kooshdakhaa said:


> My 1993 Chevy Lumina sedan is in the shop for the fourth time in the last month.  It only has 69,000 miles on it, but it is 20 years old.  My job is moving across town and I need dependable transportation.
> 
> I am thinking Kia Sorrento or Hyundai Santa Fe.  Either purchase or lease, I guess you can get really good lease terms on a Santa Fe.  Could be brand new or slightly used.
> 
> ...


Kia/Hyundai - good warranties, crappy cars. 

Told to me by my friend who's worked at a Toyota/Kia/Hyundai dealership for 25 years.


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## Pop23 (Sep 19, 2013)

Mr. H. said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> > My 1993 Chevy Lumina sedan is in the shop for the fourth time in the last month.  It only has 69,000 miles on it, but it is 20 years old.  My job is moving across town and I need dependable transportation.
> ...



I've had a Kia for 3 years now. Other than normal maintenance I've had very good experience.


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## YWN666 (Sep 19, 2013)

Kooshdakhaa said:


> My 1993 Chevy Lumina sedan is in the shop for the fourth time in the last month.  It only has 69,000 miles on it, but it is 20 years old.  My job is moving across town and I need dependable transportation.
> 
> I am thinking Kia Sorrento or Hyundai Santa Fe.  Either purchase or lease, I guess you can get really good lease terms on a Santa Fe.  Could be brand new or slightly used.
> 
> ...



*My wife is driving a Santa Fe (the second one she's owned) and she loves it and neither one gave her any trouble whatsoever. As with any car salespersons, you have to do your homework and not let them sell you anything you don't want or need.  I know that some of the larger Hyundai dealerships can get incentives from Hyundai for the number of cars they sell in a certain time period so they might be willing to sell you a car at a low profit just to boost their sales numbers.*


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## waltky (Sep 19, 2013)

Ask an auto repair person if they know of any good cars for sale...

... it works for me...

... usually get a good used car in good shape...

... and you can name your price range...

... stick with domestic cars...

... repair bills on foreign cars will eat you up.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Sep 19, 2013)

DGS49 said:


> Essentially all new cars are pretty good, and the nature of major failures is that they will probably occur in the first year, so they will be covered under warranty regardless of which one you choose.
> 
> Leasing will put a limit on the number of miles you drive, so keep that in mind as you decide.  The only time it is smart to lease is when the manufacturer is desperate to get its cars on the road, and is offering exceptional rates.  They do this by using "optimistic" residual values on their cars.  But if you are leasing, you don't care, it works to your benefit.  The cars in this category right now are VW and especially BUICK.  If you can live with a small car, and the restrictions of a lease, the Buick Verano is an exceptional value right now.  Or any VW.
> 
> ...



Wow!  Awesome information!  Thank you, DGS49.

I do live in Alaska, so the AWD or 4WD could be jusified.  Although my old Chevy Lumina is front wheel drive and with studded tires all around it handles just fine in the winter.  

I don't like cars that are too small, I don't feel safe.  So that is a consideration.

The Hyundai dealer told me that I can get a very good lease on the Santa Fe right now because it has the best residual value of any other car.  A lease might be good for me because I want my monthly payments as low as possible, and I don't drive much, just to work and back and to the store once a week, mainly. Probably well under 10,000 miles per year.

Just got the word that my car is repaired, forget what it was, but it was minor, $129 total.  We'll see if it's really fixed this time.  Meanwhile, I will take a step back and utilize this great information you've given me to reassess my options.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Sep 19, 2013)

YWN666 said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> > My 1993 Chevy Lumina sedan is in the shop for the fourth time in the last month.  It only has 69,000 miles on it, but it is 20 years old.  My job is moving across town and I need dependable transportation.
> ...



Yeah, you can hardly go wrong with that warranty.  The Santa Fe is definitely on my list of "possibles."


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## Kooshdakhaa (Sep 19, 2013)

Pop23 said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> > Kooshdakhaa said:
> ...



Thanks, Pop!  My boss bought his wife one in 2007.  He was skeptical but the fantastic warranty made him decide to go with it.  She has never had to have any repairs done on the car to this day!  I hear a lot of good things about those cars lately.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Sep 19, 2013)

Politico said:


> You never financed a new one before no need to start now.



But I'd sure like to have that "new car" experience for once in my life!  Not to mention...warranty.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Sep 19, 2013)

Mr. H. said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> > My 1993 Chevy Lumina sedan is in the shop for the fourth time in the last month.  It only has 69,000 miles on it, but it is 20 years old.  My job is moving across town and I need dependable transportation.
> ...



That used to be the reputation, especially for Kias, but from everyone I've talked to, that has changed.  My boss bought his wife a Kia in 2007, the fabulous warranty made him decide to risk it.  Nothing has ever gone wrong with it...and still four more years of warranty left!


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## Kooshdakhaa (Sep 19, 2013)

waltky said:


> Ask an auto repair person if they know of any good cars for sale...
> 
> ... it works for me...
> 
> ...



But just for once I was hoping for something new or nearly new!  With a warranty.


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## Toronado3800 (Sep 19, 2013)

Pop23 said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> > Kooshdakhaa said:
> ...



My 98 MarkVIII has gone 30,000 mile periods with no problems also but I hardly recommend it.

As I get older I understand the desire for a warranty and new car.  If you are making the money to take the financial hit then go for it.

I propose that if you are leasing a vehicle it just plum doesn't matter how reliable it isn't since all new cars should have 100,000 miles in them.

Please consider an.American made/American built vehicle if any fits your needs.

Thanks and good luck with the salesmen.


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## Pop23 (Sep 19, 2013)

Kooshdakhaa said:


> Politico said:
> 
> 
> > You never financed a new one before no need to start now.
> ...



The wealthiest man I've ever known (filthy rich) has never owned a new car. Amazing to me, but he calls cars a horrible investment. 

That's just him though. I think his rich because he's a huge tight wad. 

Just sayin


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## Kooshdakhaa (Sep 19, 2013)

Toronado3800 said:


> Pop23 said:
> 
> 
> > Mr. H. said:
> ...



Yes, but if I get a new Kia and it has a problem, I just take it into their shop and they give me a loaner while they fix it, at no charge to me.  So not only do I feel the reassurance that there won't be problems, at least not for a few years, IF there are problems all the burden is not on me.

My car is 20 years old, so even if the mileage is low (59,000) the car is aging.  Rubber gets old, stuff wears out, low miles or not.

It's making a nervous wreck out of me.  My stomach is starting to hurt.  Ulcers?  

I don't have a lot of money to spend right now, but I have good credit.  And dependable transportation is a necessity, not a luxury.  My job, currently right across the street from my house, is moving clear across town.   So that's why either leasing or buying a car with one of these great warranties is appealing to me.


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## Toronado3800 (Sep 19, 2013)

I understand. 

To clarify, my feelings are that any leased vehicle should be reliable for the three years you have it and any dealership should offer you a loaner if it breaks in that time period.

You are also correct in assessing your old car.  I wonder if it has more value as a spare vehicle or a trade in.  Probably a trade in for your situation since the dealer should offer you the spare or loaner vehicle.

If you buy a vehicle then all the extended warranties and reliability estimates come into play.  In that case five or ten years from now you may still be using it for transportation and reliability very much matters.  My MarkVIII is very much a labor of love.  I do not think you should be one if that is what it sounded like I was saying.

Heck, when I have done the math on leasing I even consider presumably unreliable vehicles and those with low projected resale like Volts and Leafs.  My thought being "at least I will be driving something DIFFERENT than my past cars".  Once again thinking any new vehicle has to be fairly reliable and come with a loaner if it goes down for maintenance.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Sep 19, 2013)

What I've heard about older cars like mine is that you can usually get more out of them if you sell them yourself rather than trading them in.  It's 20 years old, I don't know if they'll be interested in it as a trade-in.


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## Toronado3800 (Sep 19, 2013)

Thats probable.

And you can use your car as bait.  Let the dealer set a price for the new car thinking they will get yours as a trade in they can sell for profit after only giving you a grand for it.  Then go sell yours for two grand and try to get them to honor the previously given price for the new car.

I hate buying and selling cars btw.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Sep 20, 2013)

I hate buying and selling cars, too.  I really want nothing to do with it.  If I had bunches of money it would be different, I'd just go pick out what I like and buy it.  I have definite preferences in vehicles, I know what I like.  But I can't really afford what I like. 

I'm leaning heavily towards leasing right now.  And still probably won't be able to get what I want.  Which is just a Kia Sorrento or a Hyundai Santa Fe.  It's not like I'm hankering for Escalades or Hummers or Lincoln Navigators.

Oh, well, we'll see.  I have (last I knew) very good credit, and apparently that helps a lot in getting you good terms.  Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.


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## Noomi (Sep 20, 2013)

Kooshdakhaa said:


> My 1993 Chevy Lumina sedan is in the shop for the fourth time in the last month.  It only has 69,000 miles on it, but it is 20 years old.  My job is moving across town and I need dependable transportation.
> 
> I am thinking Kia Sorrento or Hyundai Santa Fe.  Either purchase or lease, I guess you can get really good lease terms on a Santa Fe.  Could be brand new or slightly used.
> 
> ...



I have a Hyundai i30 and its great, but if you wanted something bigger, the Santa Fe is a great choice.


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## TemplarKormac (Sep 20, 2013)

Kooshdakhaa said:


> My 1993 Chevy Lumina sedan is in the shop for the fourth time in the last month.  It only has 69,000 miles on it, but it is 20 years old.  My job is moving across town and I need dependable transportation.
> 
> I am thinking Kia Sorrento or Hyundai Santa Fe.  Either purchase or lease, I guess you can get really good lease terms on a Santa Fe.  Could be brand new or slightly used.
> 
> ...



Always, ALWAYS check the blue book value before making a decision. If there are other car dealerships in your area that sell the same vehicles, compare.


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## Politico (Sep 20, 2013)

Kooshdakhaa said:


> Politico said:
> 
> 
> > You never financed a new one before no need to start now.
> ...



Been there, done that, spent the next two years sweating everytime I left it in a parking lot. Sold it for a profit which is honestly the only reason I bought it. Then got a 12 year old car. You're not missing anything trust me.

It's what you pick which is easy with the right know how. Or to quote the great Indiana Jone:

It ain't the years honey...it's the mileage.


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## waltky (Sep 20, 2013)

Koosh wrote: _But just for once I was hoping for something new or nearly new! With a warranty._

Try one of the reputable car rental companies...

... like Avis, Hertz or Enterprise...

... they usually sell cars after a couple of years of use...

... that have been maintained and taken good care of...

... granted, mebbe with high mileage...

... but I think they come with a one year warranty.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Sep 20, 2013)

Right now I don't even want to drive my car.  I bring it in, they supposedly fix it, and it does the same thing again.  Broke down right at a traffic light, I was in the left turn lane, in the middle. 

I literally don't even want to drive it anymore, let alone drive it clear across town to my new workplace.

I just want a car I don't have to worry about.  I want to think about other things instead of wondering if my car is going to make it to my destination.

Seriously thinking about leasing.  Seems like the perfect solution for me.

Oh, and turns out I know a salesperson at the Kia/Hyundai dealer.  I had sent an email inquiry and he responds, "Is this the same person I worked with at _____?  How are you doing!  Let me know if I can help you and I will get you the best possible deal!"

Yeah, I know they all say they'll get you the best possible deal, but he knows me from before and he likes me.  I think he'll help me out as best he can.


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## DGS49 (Sep 20, 2013)

About that Lumina...

If it is structurally sound (a tolerable amount of rust), and your primary objective is minimmizing total cost of ownership, there is a school of thought that says:  Keep it, and drive it forever.

People tend to see perpetually rising repair bills on an older car as inevitable, but this is not generally the case.  If you maintain the Lumina and stay after the rust, it will probably continue costing you about a thousand dollars a year for another several years.  That's a heck of a lot cheaper than $25 grand for a new car.


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## YWN666 (Sep 20, 2013)

*Check this out:*

https://ec.consumerreports.org/ec/aps/order.htm?INTKEY=I0AH0L8

*You can buy a report that tells you what the dealers actually pay for a car - that gives you bargaining power.*


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## Politico (Sep 20, 2013)

OR you can just look it up for free.


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## Zoom-boing (Sep 20, 2013)

My thoughts on leasing are .... at the end of the lease term you either have to turn it in or buy it, right?  If you buy it it's my understanding that you will end up paying more than if you had just bought it from the beginning (not leased at all).  If you turn it in you're in the same boat, still making car payments.  I'm old school -- buy the best you can afford and take care of it so it lasts.  The first new cars we ever bought are now ten years old and I have no intention of buying a new car (even though we could).  I thoroughly enjoy not having car payments.  My rationale is that even if the car needs a $2,000 fix at 10 years ... that's way cheaper than buying a new car and making payments.  I drive a Honda Pilot, hubs has a Toyota Corolla.  Other than standard maintenance, neither of us has had a problem.  Ugh, well my daughter got managed to get hit (dinged the back left panel but good) one month after she got her license and hubs rear-ended some guy a few years back, had to get that fixed.


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## Gracie (Sep 20, 2013)

SIL just got home today with a new car. Ford Fiesta. Payment are 278 per month. Affordable for them. Don't know what finance company they are going thru though.


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## percysunshine (Sep 20, 2013)

Do it all online. Decide what you want and see who will give you the best price before you visit the lot. Keeps the sales games out of the picture.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Sep 21, 2013)

DGS49 said:


> About that Lumina...
> 
> If it is structurally sound (a tolerable amount of rust), and your primary objective is minimmizing total cost of ownership, there is a school of thought that says:  Keep it, and drive it forever.
> 
> People tend to see perpetually rising repair bills on an older car as inevitable, but this is not generally the case.  If you maintain the Lumina and stay after the rust, it will probably continue costing you about a thousand dollars a year for another several years.  That's a heck of a lot cheaper than $25 grand for a new car.



You know, DGS49. I would really like that to be the outcome.  The car only has 59,000 miles on it.  It seems like it should last me a while longer!  And some repair bills here and there are no big deal compared to the cost of a new car, or even the monthly lease on a car.

Problem is, what do I do if these damn mechanics can't figure out what's wrong with it?!  I mean, is this just going to go on endlessly, they say it's fixed and then the same problem is still there?  It's back in their shop again, now, this is like the fourth time for the same problem!


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## Kooshdakhaa (Sep 21, 2013)

You know, my next door neighbor is a mechanic.  Hmmm.  Too bad I'm not single, I might be able to work out a deal with him. 

JUST KIDDING! 

(Well not about the mechanic part...he is one.  But he doesn't work at a shop, he works for this rental car/limousine business, maintains all their vehicles.)


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## Kooshdakhaa (Sep 21, 2013)

This is what I'm thinking of doing.  Go to the Kia dealership.  Tell them I want a Kia Sorrento.  Tell them I will make a down payment of $2000 tops and I really don't want to do that.  I want payments of $250/month, no more, preferrably less.  Then tell them to find me the Kia Sorrento that I can get for those terms...it can be used, obviously, as long as it is still under warranty.  And I don't want the miles on it to be too high.  It can be a lease.

Then...they can either find me a car to match my terms, or they can't.


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## Zoom-boing (Sep 21, 2013)

Kooshdakhaa said:


> DGS49 said:
> 
> 
> > About that Lumina...
> ...



That's just not right.  I'd take it to a different shop.  We had a place we used to take our car and I swear to God every time the car came back there was 'something' else amiss.  The final straw was we took it in for inspection and they missed a burnt out head light.  Really??  That's just as basic as it gets.  If they missed the easy stuff what else did they miss? Left and never went back.


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## YWN666 (Sep 21, 2013)

Kooshdakhaa said:


> This is what I'm thinking of doing.  Go to the Kia dealership.  Tell them I want a Kia Sorrento.  Tell them I will make a down payment of $2000 tops and I really don't want to do that.  I want payments of $250/month, no more, preferrably less.  Then tell them to find me the Kia Sorrento that I can get for those terms...it can be used, obviously, as long as it is still under warranty.  And I don't want the miles on it to be too high.  It can be a lease.
> 
> Then...they can either find me a car to match my terms, or they can't.



*Excellent idea.  If they want t make a sale, let them work for it.*


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## Kooshdakhaa (Sep 21, 2013)

YWN666 said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> > This is what I'm thinking of doing.  Go to the Kia dealership.  Tell them I want a Kia Sorrento.  Tell them I will make a down payment of $2000 tops and I really don't want to do that.  I want payments of $250/month, no more, preferrably less.  Then tell them to find me the Kia Sorrento that I can get for those terms...it can be used, obviously, as long as it is still under warranty.  And I don't want the miles on it to be too high.  It can be a lease.
> ...



Yep, I shouldn't have to work for it...they should.  It's their job.   I know what I want, so it's very simple...they can provide it...or not.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Sep 21, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> > DGS49 said:
> ...



Well, I was thinking of taking it to another shop nearby, but they did the same thing to me a few years ago...the old back and forth, couldn't isolate the problem.  This shop I'm going to now saved me...fixed the problem the other shop couldn't.

Trouble is, the owner of this shop, who is an awesome mechanic, had a tragedy in his life, his son died, and he's letting his son-in-law run the shop.  And he nor any of the other mechanics can hold a candle to the owner. 

I don't want to go to a shop that's too far away from my home.  That just complicates matters.  This shop I can walk to and from.

Here's another thing...my car is back in there now and they didn't even write up a work order thingy and have me sign it...because they know they have failed to find the problem, they are not charging me for continuing to search for the problem.  If I take it to a new shop, they'll be charging me labor just to look at it and begin the troubleshooting process...right?

I wish they'd get frustrated and call the owner and ask him to look at the car.  He'd probably diagnose the problem in five minutes!


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## BlueGin (Sep 21, 2013)

YWN666 said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> > This is what I'm thinking of doing.  Go to the Kia dealership.  Tell them I want a Kia Sorrento.  Tell them I will make a down payment of $2000 tops and I really don't want to do that.  I want payments of $250/month, no more, preferrably less.  Then tell them to find me the Kia Sorrento that I can get for those terms...it can be used, obviously, as long as it is still under warranty.  And I don't want the miles on it to be too high.  It can be a lease.
> ...



That's what I did.  And I bought two in the last month....one for me and one for my daughter. Made them meet my terms, search for specific colors, even made them drive them both to my door.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Sep 21, 2013)

Actually, I have another good option.  I didn't like the Kia Soul because I thought it was ugly, but I've looked at more pictures, and it's not too bad.  And i thought it had itty bitty wheels on it, but it comes standard with 15" tires and you can have 16" tires on it, 17" even if you want.  So that's normal-sized tires right, not the itty bitty ones?

And I can lease one of those for $1750 down, $199/month.  Now we're talking.   And it'd be brand new.

Then if some property I have sells in the next year or so, I'll take it back in and trade it on a Sorrento because I'll be able to afford higher payments.  I'll make sure that they'd let me do that before I sign the lease.  That way I'm not getting what I really, really want but I'm leaving that door open.  And I can drive to work knowing my car won't be constantly breaking down.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Sep 23, 2013)

Well, now we're talking!  The salesman at Kia sent me an email and said he would bring a car to me to test drive to save me the trouble of going to the dealership.  I emailed him back with a bunch of questions and told what I was willing to pay and if he could find me a car that meets my requirements.  And that, yes, he could bring it by...that would be a great convenience for me! 

Since I have it narrowed down to a couple of different vehicles, this will work.  I don't need to go to the dealership and test drive 10 cars. I know what I want.  It will all come down to monthly payment, down payment required and warranty on the vehicle.  And mileage.  Regardless of warranty I don't want the mileage to be too high.  Lease or buy, I don't really care.  

I've sent a message off to Allstate as to what comprehensive insurance will be so I'm not too shocked by that!


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## R.C. Christian (Sep 23, 2013)

Anything but Genital Motors. Chevy and the GM line is a pile of magnificent dog shit. Horrible, horrible cars.


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## Papawx3 (Sep 24, 2013)

First, congrats on having a 20 y/o vehicle that only has 69k miles on it.  My 2006 Equinox already has over 150K miles on it.  It's still going strong, and I'll keep it until it drops and is no longer economically feasible to repair. 

Check your finances to determine how much you can afford to pay outright for a vehicle. Don't submit to the feeling that you have to "keep up with the Joneses".  
You will always save money by not having to finance a vehicle.  Not only will you save on the amortization and interest payments, you will also NOT have to keep full coverage insurance on it.  That will save you even more money.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Sep 24, 2013)

Papawx3 said:


> First, congrats on having a 20 y/o vehicle that only has 69k miles on it.  My 2006 Equinox already has over 150K miles on it.  It's still going strong, and I'll keep it until it drops and is no longer economically feasible to repair.
> 
> Check your finances to determine how much you can afford to pay outright for a vehicle. Don't submit to the feeling that you have to "keep up with the Joneses".
> You will always save money by not having to finance a vehicle.  Not only will you save on the amortization and interest payments, you will also NOT have to keep full coverage insurance on it.  That will save you even more money.



That's the problem...right now I can't afford to pay much cash on a vehicle.  It will be easier on me financially right now to make a small down payment and have a monthly payment.  

Most down i want to pay is $2000 and I'm not interested in any cars I can buy for that amount.  The most expensive car I've ever bought was $3200, so I know what you're saying, I have saved a ton of money on transportation over the years.

But now dependability is my main concern since my job is moving clear across town.  I'm stressed out enough withou worried about my car breaking down.  

Of course, like I've said before, a competent mechanic probably would have fixed my car by now, but how do I find one of those?  How do I know they're competent?  You see, with a new leased vehicle I don't have to worry about that.


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## Pogo (Sep 24, 2013)

Papawx3 said:


> First, congrats on having a 20 y/o vehicle that only has 69k miles on it.  My 2006 Equinox already has over 150K miles on it.  It's still going strong, and I'll keep it until it drops and is no longer economically feasible to repair.
> 
> Check your finances to determine how much you can afford to pay outright for a vehicle. Don't submit to the feeling that you have to "keep up with the Joneses".
> You will always save money by not having to finance a vehicle.  Not only will you save on the amortization and interest payments, you will also NOT have to keep full coverage insurance on it.  That will save you even more money.



Agree ^^.  I've never bought a new car in my life.

I just last week sold off my 20-year-old car and hated to see it go, she was so reliable.  Has about 425,000 miles and still running for the new owner.

Note, @RCChristian -- it's a GM car.

YMMV of course.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Sep 25, 2013)

I inquired about the Sportage and now the salesman emails me and says the lease on the Sportage is about the same as the Sorento, $250-300 a month.

I replied, "Uh oh!  I thought the lease on the Sorento was $250 per month, why are we inching up to $300?"

Haven't heard back yet.  But I did let him know that my talking about it has interested a couple of other coworkers who might be interested in leasing or buying cars.  That should get his attention!  And I'm not making it up...it's true.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Sep 26, 2013)

Ah, he will give me $100 for every referral who buys a car. 

Now I have Kia and Hyundai salespeople competing for me.  The Kia guy doesn't know it yet but Hyundai did a credit check on me and mentioned something about my phenomenal credit.  And immediately lowered the lease price she had quoted me on a Santa Fe. : )  

Checked out how much more full coverage insurance will cost so I won't be taken by surprise by that, since my old car only has liability on it.

I can probably get a trade in on my old car, if the stupid mechanics can ever get it running.

If they knew how close I am to making a decision.  That's how I am...I agonize for a few days and then SNAP...make my decision.  Where do I sign? Then I'll be so excited I won't be able to function for a couple days.  I've never had a new car. 

I think I will really ponder it over the weekend, then perhaps decide on Monday, maybe Tuesday.  I like the idea of arriving to pick my husband up after work in a brand new car.  Surprise!    I've asked him and he's already told me it's my decision, since he doesn't drive.


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## DGS49 (Sep 27, 2013)

Esoteric point on leasing:

Dealers will often put out a low-ball monthly payment to lease a car.  Say, $299 a month for 36 months, with $3,000 down.

But of course, that is usually for a fairly basic model, and YOU want something a little nicer or a couple of special options.  This is where the dealer dramatically increases his profit.

In gross terms, when a buyer adds, say $1,000 in options, most customers are willing to accept a calculation that goes roughly as follows:  $1,000 divided by 36 months; my payment will go up by about $28 per month.  But this is WRONG, for two reasons.

First of all that $1,000 option only costs the dealer about $800.  Second, you are not BUYING the car (option), you are only RENTING it (when you lease).  So you shouldn't have to pay 100% of the cost of the options, but only about 60%.  So the correct increase in the monthly lease payment for that $1,000 option is $13 or $14.

Don't get snookered.  Don't listen when the salesman whines.  In fact, most of them are too stupid to do the actual calculation and must rely on their F&I person for the re-quote.  Don't add options unless they are something that you can't live without, and don't be taken advantage of with the options.


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## YWN666 (Sep 27, 2013)

Kooshdakhaa said:


> Ah, he will give me $100 for every referral who buys a car.
> 
> Now I have Kia and Hyundai salespeople competing for me.  The Kia guy doesn't know it yet but Hyundai did a credit check on me and mentioned something about my phenomenal credit.  And immediately lowered the lease price she had quoted me on a Santa Fe. : )
> 
> ...


*
Good!  Use their hunger for a sale to your advantage.*


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## Kooshdakhaa (Sep 28, 2013)

Well, now there's a complication.  Seems all the basic models of the Kia Sorentos are sold out.  The salesman starts talking about the ones that are available and why they are more, with their heated seats and rear back-up camera or some such crap.  I told him those options are of no interest whatsoever to me.

So...I have to wait a couple of weeks for more of the basic models of the Sorentos to arrive at the dealership.  But somehow we're now talking zero down and $249/month.  I like that.

And yes, I know I'm really just renting the car, but I don't care because my needs right now are low monthly payments and extremely reliable transportation.  Seems like leasing is the answer for me right now.

I may call next week and readdress purchasing a moderately used vehicle that is still under warranty.  I asked about that once before, and basically leasing seemed like the better way to go.  In other words, to purchase a used vehicle my monthly payments would be as high as leasing a brand new (2014) vehicle.

I feel like I'm getting an ulcer over this...but I also think I may be getting close to making up my mind.  When those new Sorentos come in (basic models) if I can lease one for zero down and $240 per month...I'm gonna do it!  And with the money I saved not putting a down I'll have them put on some studded tires for the winter.  Studded tires and AWD...woohoo!  I'll be in good shape for winter!   I'm accustomed to driving a front wheel drive sedan with studded tires in the winter and that does quite well.  AWD and studs will be awesome.


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## Toronado3800 (Oct 2, 2013)

Ouch @ $250 a month!

My MarkVIII got me for $300 worth of shop costs for a power steering line because it broke 30 miles away from home at work and is an ill conceived design for that part.  Not my usual shop but "generic auto and tire" messed up and twisted an extra line like I woukd have done if I could get to it laying on the lot at work.  At least they did not charge me extra.

...lets see...we'll call it $100 of suspension bushings.....$80 for a stupid sending unit which was leaking oil that I misdiagnosed as my oil filter adapter plate gasket that I changed last year (?).  I will need $500 to $600 ish of tires this year...  Lets thow in $200 of something else that breaks.

Thats what, $1,300  I suppose we should divide in the $3,750 i paid by the four years I have owned it...but I should round down as it will have trade in / parts value..

That's about $2,000....a grand in the old car's favor.


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## HenryBHough (Oct 2, 2013)

Hyundai and Kia are both made by the same Souith Korean company.  Their engineering and design are very closely connected.  These days either one is a good value.  Kia is a little less popular so there may be more price negotiation possible on a new one.  Resale value on both sucks though it has improved as more people figure out how good those cars are.  That argues for a used one as somebody else would have taken the initial hit on value.  Problem is that people hang onto the really good ones so any that do show up used need to be checked over carefully to be sure they haven't been abused in any way.

If buying new, consider the dealer.  Sometimes it's the same underlying company; sometimes not.  If they're different ownership (not just name; OWNERSHIP) then try to find out which of the two has the best reputation among existing customers, particularly for after-sale service.

I don't believe the long warranty is transferable so there might be enough value in that (if you're young enough to outlive it) to offset the more bucks-outta-pocket a new one will cost.


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## Jackson (Oct 2, 2013)

I just had to buy a new car because my car was letting me down.  I had a 2005 Mazda that I loved and my catalytic converter went bad.  *Two days after *the warranty went out.  And I only had 44,000 miles on the car.

Mazda would not honor the warranty.  That was the second Mazda I had.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Oct 3, 2013)

HenryBHough said:


> Hyundai and Kia are both made by the same Souith Korean company.  Their engineering and design are very closely connected.  These days either one is a good value.  Kia is a little less popular so there may be more price negotiation possible on a new one.  Resale value on both sucks though it has improved as more people figure out how good those cars are.  That argues for a used one as somebody else would have taken the initial hit on value.  Problem is that people hang onto the really good ones so any that do show up used need to be checked over carefully to be sure they haven't been abused in any way.
> 
> If buying new, consider the dealer.  Sometimes it's the same underlying company; sometimes not.  If they're different ownership (not just name; OWNERSHIP) then try to find out which of the two has the best reputation among existing customers, particularly for after-sale service.
> 
> I don't believe the long warranty is transferable so there might be enough value in that (if you're young enough to outlive it) to offset the more bucks-outta-pocket a new one will cost.



The long warranty is transferrable if you purchase a used Kia from the Kia dealership.  But if you buy it from an individual, the warranty does not transfer with the car.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Oct 3, 2013)

Jackson said:


> I just had to buy a new car because my car was letting me down.  I had a 2005 Mazda that I loved and my catalytic converter went bad.  *Two days after *the warranty went out.  And I only had 44,000 miles on the car.
> 
> Mazda would not honor the warranty.  That was the second Mazda I had.



Wow!  See, if that was a Kia, it would still be under warranty.  Which is one of the main reasons I'm attracted to  the Kias.

So what did you buy?


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## Kooshdakhaa (Oct 3, 2013)

HenryBHough said:


> Hyundai and Kia are both made by the same Souith Korean company.  Their engineering and design are very closely connected.  These days either one is a good value.  Kia is a little less popular so there may be more price negotiation possible on a new one.  Resale value on both sucks though it has improved as more people figure out how good those cars are.  That argues for a used one as somebody else would have taken the initial hit on value.  Problem is that people hang onto the really good ones so any that do show up used need to be checked over carefully to be sure they haven't been abused in any way.
> 
> If buying new, consider the dealer.  Sometimes it's the same underlying company; sometimes not.  If they're different ownership (not just name; OWNERSHIP) then try to find out which of the two has the best reputation among existing customers, particularly for after-sale service.
> 
> I don't believe the long warranty is transferable so there might be enough value in that (if you're young enough to outlive it) to offset the more bucks-outta-pocket a new one will cost.



I can get a better deal leasing rather than buying new.  Or even buying a moderately used car.  At least that's the best thing for me right now.  I might consider buying the car at the end of the three-year lease.  It will still have seven years/or probably about 85,000 miles left on the warranty!


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## Kooshdakhaa (Oct 3, 2013)

Pogo said:


> Papawx3 said:
> 
> 
> > First, congrats on having a 20 y/o vehicle that only has 69k miles on it.  My 2006 Equinox already has over 150K miles on it.  It's still going strong, and I'll keep it until it drops and is no longer economically feasible to repair.
> ...



I've never bought a new car in my life, either, and I'm 61 years old.  I think it's time.  My job is moving and I'll have to be doing a lot more driving.  I don't enjoy my car breaking down on me out in the middle of traffic.  As a matter of fact, it's horrifying.  I'm tired of being the peasant in the old car that breaks down.  Time for a new car.


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## DGS49 (Oct 3, 2013)

Nothing down and $249 a month is a very good price (provided you can live with the mileage limitations).

If there is sales tax in AK, it will also apply to the monthly payments.

Keep in mind, if you lease a car, you have nothing to bring to the dealership when the lease runs out. That is, you won't have a trade, so if you are like most people, you will most likely being leasing from now on (until you get that big inheritance).


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## Jackson (Oct 3, 2013)

Kooshdakhaa said:


> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> > I just had to buy a new car because my car was letting me down.  I had a 2005 Mazda that I loved and my catalytic converter went bad.  *Two days after *the warranty went out.  And I only had 44,000 miles on the car.
> ...



I bought a Cadillac ATS.  It was kind of sporty and I was used to a sports car but I am transporting grand kids now.  Needed the room.

Getting used to the size of it.  Little nervous about it.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Oct 3, 2013)

DGS49 said:


> Nothing down and $249 a month is a very good price (provided you can live with the mileage limitations).
> 
> If there is sales tax in AK, it will also apply to the monthly payments.
> 
> Keep in mind, if you lease a car, you have nothing to bring to the dealership when the lease runs out. That is, you won't have a trade, so if you are like most people, you will most likely being leasing from now on (until you get that big inheritance).



I know, I keep reading and reading about buying versus leasing.  But right now the zero down and, actually it's $244/month is sounding very good.  I really, really don't want to make a downpayment and am more concerned about right now, rather than three years from now when the lease ends.  Although I will not be naive about what happens then.  Also, maybe my 403 acres in Talkeetna, Alaska will sell and I'll be able to convert the lease to a purchaes.   (Anybody want some property in Alaska?)  

I keep emailing more questions to both the Hyundai salesperson and the Kia salesperson.  They have an irritating habit of answering some of the questions but not answering one or two of the questions in my list.  Makes me think I've hit a hot button with the questions they try to overlook.


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## DGS49 (Oct 4, 2013)

The lease contract will stipulate the buy-out amount on Day One, so you know what you will have to come up with at the end of the lease.

In the final month or so, you can (a)  see if you can round up enough cash to buy it out, (b) take out a loan to buy it, (c) advertise it for sale at a price that is slightly higher than the buy-out, so you are covered.

It would seem logical that there would be some room to negotiate with the bank at the end of the lease, if the car isn't actually worth the buy-out value, but in my experience Banks have a firm policy against this.  I guess they just don't want to start having to deal with it from every customer who is getting ready to turn in a car.

The lease payment you are being quote seems very reasonable to me.  If you are a prudent, mature person, you will lease the car, and set aside a fixed amount every month, so that when the lease is up you will  have some options.  I would certainly never do that, but a prudent, mature person might.


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## Pogo (Oct 4, 2013)

Man oh man... all this angst over contracts, leases, buyouts and tying oneself down to a monthly payment for an unknown future serve to remind me why I take a completely different approach:

1. How much do I have to spend?
2. What can I get for that amount?
3. Buy car with cash; done.

Used car buying is a lot more productive than it used to be with tracking services like CarFax and AutoCheck.  I've bought my last three cars using those services and I just sold the first one, still running with 420,000 miles on it and the most reliable car I've ever had (the other two I still own).

I dunno, the whole car-payment/lease payment idea just seems like a ball and chain.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Oct 4, 2013)

Pogo said:


> Man oh man... all this angst over contracts, leases, buyouts and tying oneself down to a monthly payment for an unknown future serve to remind me why I take a completely different approach:
> 
> 1. How much do I have to spend?
> 2. What can I get for that amount?
> ...



I'll tell you what's a ball and chain, Pogo.  A car that is giving you a lot of trouble when you need reliable transportation.  And the mechanics can't seem to fix it.  And you're a woman and don't know the least fucking thing about fixing it yourself.

I went over to pick up my car at the shop this morning, they said they've been driving it all week and it is running just fine so they don't know what my problem is.  When I got there I started it up and the "Low Coolant" light came on.  They put some coolant in it and didn't seem to have an answer to "WHY is the coolant low?"

I told the head mechanic I was going to sell it, he asked how much and I said probably $2000.  He said that's too much, he'll give me $800.  I am seriously thinking about it.  And you know what he's going to do, Pogo?  He's going to resell it to some poor slob...he has several cars for sale in a used car lot across the street from his garage.  Mind you, it only has 69,000 miles on it, somebody will think they're getting a good deal for $1500 or more.

I just want to get in my car and know that it will start and take me where I need to go, every day for several years without fail.  By leasing, I can achieve that.  It's becoming well worth the money.  And zero down means I don't have to deplete any of my savings.

I've done what  you do all my life, Pogo, buy used cars.  I've never had a car payment and I've had "pretty" good luck with the cars I've bought.  But now I deserve something better.  I've earned some peace of mind.


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## Pogo (Oct 4, 2013)

Kooshdakhaa said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Man oh man... all this angst over contracts, leases, buyouts and tying oneself down to a monthly payment for an unknown future serve to remind me why I take a completely different approach:
> ...



Trust me Kooshdakhaa (do I have to drop your name 18 times?), reliability is my top concern in a car, although efficiency is a close second, which is why I just can't see tossing all that money on depreciation.  I've had almost everything that can possibly go wrong on a car go wrong, so I've been burned by what I thought was a "pretty good" used car, more times than I care to count.

What I'm saying is that game has changed.  The last few cars I bought, I know the owner's name, where he lived, how he drove, whether he had any accidents, in two out of three cases the complete repair history,  whether the car was ever a lease or flood or fire or salvage or police or rental or driver ed or stolen vehicle, when it got emissions inspected, and where it was with how many miles at any point in its life.  That's a lot more information than we used to get.

And of course, any car, including new, can be a lemon.  That's another reason to let it age a bit -- a few years' legacy will give you a good Consumer Reports picture of the car's longevity outlook. 

Anyway that's how I do it and it serves me well, a lot better than the old daze.  YMMV.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Oct 4, 2013)

If I'm leasing I don't care if it's a lemon.  They have to give me a loaner while they fix it, and if they can't fix it, they have to give me a different new car.

I do see what you're saying about buying a used car being a different game nowdays, with more information at our disposal.

Another thing...one of the first things I asked about was buying a good used car from the dealer, still under warranty.  But since I need my payments to be as low as possible and little to zero down because I don't want to expend my cash on hand, leasing was a better option.  For me.  Right now.

But you know, Publisher's Clearing House says they have been scoping out the florist nearest to my house so they can buy a bouquet for when they come to award me my grand prize, $7000 per week for the rest of my life.  And when that happens, I can have just about any car I want.


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## MikeK (Oct 4, 2013)

After having a really bad time with a new 1964 Pontiac Catalina convertible I took the advice of a family friend and since then I've always bought used (low-mileage) Cadillacs rather than any new mid-range cars.  And I've never had cause to regret it.   

Cadillacs are very well made, reliable, comfortable, soft-riding, beautiful cars.  And a clean, well-maintained, ten year-old Caddy usually looks and runs better than any year-old mid-range car.  

The downside is Caddy's are powerful cars and so they burn gas, so they're not recommended for long distance commuting.  And because they should be maintained by Cadillac technicians rather than local greasemonkeys it typically costs about 30% more.  

But in the long run you're better off with a used Caddy than a new anything.


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## MikeK (Oct 4, 2013)

Kooshdakhaa said:


> If I'm leasing I don't care if it's a lemon.  They have to give me a loaner while they fix it, and if they can't fix it, they have to give me a different new car.
> 
> I do see what you're saying about buying a used car being a different game nowdays, with more information at our disposal.
> 
> ...


Forget it.  I have Publishers' Clearing House assurance that it's me.  Not you!


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## Kooshdakhaa (Oct 4, 2013)

MikeK said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> > If I'm leasing I don't care if it's a lemon.  They have to give me a loaner while they fix it, and if they can't fix it, they have to give me a different new car.
> ...




What???!!!


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## Wry Catcher (Oct 4, 2013)

Kooshdakhaa said:


> My 1993 Chevy Lumina sedan is in the shop for the fourth time in the last month.  It only has 69,000 miles on it, but it is 20 years old.  My job is moving across town and I need dependable transportation.
> 
> I am thinking Kia Sorrento or Hyundai Santa Fe.  Either purchase or lease, I guess you can get really good lease terms on a Santa Fe.  Could be brand new or slightly used.
> 
> ...



We always purchased cars from Hertz, used with around 30 thousand miles.  We never had a problem, and we received all the records on the car.

See for example 2012 Hyundai Santa Fe GLS with 32 thousand miles for $17,598, below:

http://www.hertzcarsales.com/Search...r=1&Distance=100mi&Makes=Hyundai&Models=Santa Fe&PostalCode=94102&&singleMakeModel=true&sorter=price&


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## Kooshdakhaa (Oct 17, 2013)

Well, yesterday I test drove a Kia Soul.  Salesman brought it to me at my workplace, I didn't even have to go to the dealership!   I was surprised, I liked it better than I thought I would.  Brakes were very touchy, though, I didn't like that.  But it was actually quite roomy inside for a small car.

Then he brought me over a Kia Sorento to drive and the Soul was forgotten.  I loved the Sorento.  The brakes were NOT touchy.  The salesman explained that's because it's a much heavier vehicle.

This was the only base model Sorento they had in, however, and it was red with a light beige interior.  So I'm waiting for a different color.  I think I'm going to go for it.  

I was kind of tense while driving the Soul, but when I got into that Sorento I felt all the tension rolling off of me.   It sure did handle nicely!  AWD, can be locked into four wheel drive.  I think I'll put studded snow tires all around, it will be awesome this winter!!


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## Kooshdakhaa (Oct 17, 2013)

Kia Soul:


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## Kooshdakhaa (Oct 17, 2013)

Kia Sorento in red:


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## Kooshdakhaa (Oct 17, 2013)

I would like to have the Titanium Silver (but I'll settle for black):


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## percysunshine (Oct 17, 2013)

Kooshdakhaa said:


> Also, maybe my 403 acres in Talkeetna, Alaska will sell and I'll be able to convert the lease to a purchaes.   (Anybody want some property in Alaska?)
> 
> .



Got any pictures? What price range does land go for there?


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## MikeK (Oct 18, 2013)

Kooshdakhaa said:


> Kia Soul:


That's a nice-looking SUV.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Oct 18, 2013)

percysunshine said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> > Also, maybe my 403 acres in Talkeetna, Alaska will sell and I'll be able to convert the lease to a purchaes.   (Anybody want some property in Alaska?)
> ...



Here you go.  Second listing down, "Private Alaskan Wilderness near Talkeetna."  (Click on the picture on the left to open the listing)

Talkeetna Alaska Real Estate,Alaska recreational property,Alaska land, Alaska MLS,homes,remote cabins,land,hunting,fishing,Denali Park,lodges,King Salmon,Bears,Moose,Gold,Silver,business for sale,


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## Kooshdakhaa (Oct 20, 2013)

I did it!  I got a car!

They got a silver Kia Sorento in and I was ready to go for it.  But the saleman called me, all full of disdain (that's how I interpreted it) and said the finance people had  seen my X thousand credit card debt and the deal he'd been telling me, zero down $244 a month was out.  I told him that I gave him my ssn, dob etc. so he could check all this out before and prequalify me!!  What the hell is this suddenly popping up for.  Later he sends me an email saying "Here's the deal.  $2500 down, $279/month.  No lease deals with zero down."

I'm like, fuck you.  The Hyundai saleswoman had given me a price of $2000 down $261/month weeks ago, and I had discounted it because the Kia salesman was acting like he had all these great deals.  The Hyundai Santa Fe was really my first choice over the Kia Sorento, but I put it aside thinking I could get a much better deal on the Sorento. 

I contacted the Hyundai saleswoman and asked her to verify my credit again and had they checked EVERYTHING including my damn credit card debt.  She said she would run the numbers and yes they were very thorough they would check everything.  She came back with her original deal $2000 down, $261 a month, did I want to test drive?   I emailed the Kia guy and told him what Hyundai said.

Then I test drove a 2013 Hundai Santa Fe Sport...and decided to go with it!  The saleswoman picked me up to take me to the dealership later in the day to do the paperwork because I didn't want to drive either of my old cars over there (don't trust them).  While we were driving over there, the General Manager from Kia called and said they had reconsidered and would let me have a Sorento for $2000 down and $266.50 per month.  I didn't have the heart to tell him I was on my way to get the Hyundai, so I told him I'd think about it.

Anyway, that gorgeous, fat, tough little AWD SUV is out in my garage right now.  I peek out there every now and then to look at it.   It looks just like this one (and the picture doesn't do it justice).


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## Kooshdakhaa (Nov 23, 2013)

I am so glad I got this particular vehicle, with AWD! And I am sooo glad I decided to put studded tires on it for the winter!

Yesterday, in the morning we had freezing rain.  And I mean FREEZING rain.  As soon as it hit a surface it was freezing so the roads were getting extremely slick.  I drove to work with no problems, although I did have to go around a wreck on the route I usually take, and I was very tense the entire time because I had to exercise great caution.

Then during the day the freezing rain turned to snow.  So this meant we had a nice sheet of ice with light fluffy snow on top.  Extremely slippery and extremely deceptive because when you see that snow you think you'll have better traction than you would if there wasn't that sheet of ice underneath!

On my drive home, the road I usually take was shut down and I had to take a detour.  There had been too many accidents and they closed the road down for the safety of the first responders who were dealing with the situation.  So what is usually a 15 minute trip home took 30 minutes.  30 minutes of gripping the steering wheel very tightly and chanting, "Oh, thank God I decided to get studs!  Oh, thank God I decided to get studs!"

Yep, I have not had a single moment of buyer's remorse about the vehicle I chose!


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## HenryBHough (Nov 23, 2013)

What you observed was not a difference between Kia and Hyundai - they're essentially the same company.  What you did see was the difference between dealers.  It was a sad day when the dealership changed hands not all that long ago.


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## MikeK (Nov 24, 2013)

Kooshdakhaa said:


> I am so glad I got this particular vehicle, with AWD! And I am sooo glad I decided to put studded tires on it for the winter!
> 
> Yesterday, in the morning we had freezing rain.  And I mean FREEZING rain.  As soon as it hit a surface it was freezing so the roads were getting extremely slick.  I drove to work with no problems, although I did have to go around a wreck on the route I usually take, and I was very tense the entire time because I had to exercise great caution.
> 
> ...


It's a nice car.  Congratulations.  You did good!


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## DGS49 (Nov 25, 2013)

From what you report here, it looks like you got a good car and a good deal.

Best of luck with it!


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