# Vick's comments after team voted him courages award



## JimH52

Somalia Takes Issue with Michael Vick's Ed Block Courage Award | Bleacher Report

Does Vick see himself as some kind of martyr?  I was in the guys corner when many didn't want to see him play again, but he seems to think he is the victim.
*
GET REAL VICK!*


----------



## Paulie

Not that I'm defending his criminal actions, but you'd probably feel the same way if you'd committed a crime, realized the errors in your ways, did your time, and came to find out that half the fucking civilized WORLD apparently thinks you're garbage from here on out no matter what you do.

The fact is, there are people who've committed much worse atrocities and not only didn't get NEARLY the amount of scrutiny as Vick did, but also were pretty damn near collectively forgiven.  Even family members of murder victims often times will forgive the murderer.  And that's PEOPLE we're talking about, not animals.

I mean shit, our own government allies itself with dictators who have killed COUNTLESS people.  I don't see much public outcry about THAT.  But god forbid a professional football player kills dogs and then plays football for money again after doing his time in prison.


----------



## Zona

He did time in a federal pen for his crimes.  He manned up and did it.  He is continuing on with his life.  Good for him.


----------



## Xenophon

What a monumental dickhead.

Yes, life is tough when you make millions for playing sports and get caught killing dogs.

They never should have let this asshole back in the NFL.


----------



## JimH52

He could have just said, "Thank you" and that would have been fine.  His brashness and statements concerning all the hard times he has seen make me think he really has not changed.  Its' still "all about me."

The dogs he put to death never got a second chance.  Please, Vick is not a Martyr





> ..."I've overcome a lot, more than probably one single individual can handle or bear," Vick said. "You ask certain people to walk through my shoes, they probably couldn't do (it).


  Michael, there are kids dying with cancer all over the world that now understand the pain you have been through.  Thanks for sharing.

This is coming from a guy that whole heartedly supported him getting back into the NFL.  He needs to put his brain in gear before engaging his mouth.


----------



## JenyEliza

You should have seen the freaking hero-worship of Vick when the Eagles played here in Atlanta.

OMG.  Atlanta FALCON FANS were wearing Mike Vick/Eagle jerseys.

He got a farking hero's welcome here....from people who are also Barry Obama fans.

It was so disgusting, some DJ's here have taken to calling the GA Dome "The Vick Dome".

Watch for Vick to end up in trouble before the end of 2010.  I see it coming.  He learned exactly NOTHING from his experience.  NOTHING.


----------



## Coyote

Just because worse things happen in the world doesn't make the abuse and killing of other animals somehow "acceptable".

If Michael Vick truely regretted his actions, I'd like to see evidence of that.  Thus far he has accepted no responsibility for what he did to those dogs nor any remorse.  Vick was involved in an extensive interstate dog fighting ring that operated over a period of five or more years. He was sentanced to 23 months and served only 18 months, some of that in home confinement.  He pled "not guilty" to animal cruelty charges  but those charges were eventually dropped in a plea bargain and he was convicted only of bankrolling a dogfighting conspiracy so the court and the public never got to here the details of what he did. Somehow, I think if they had and if they had seen the pictures they might not be so forgiving.

Many professionals lose their licenses when they are convicted of felonies and can never again practice in their professions.  Football players, however, do not seem to suffer much of a penalty.

Michael Vick's unpaid dues: Why dog advocates aren't moving on

"The details that got to me then and stay with me today involve the swimming pool that was used to kill some of the dogs" Reynolds wrote on her blog. "Jumper cables were clipped onto the ears of underperforming dogs then just like with a car the cables were connected to the terminals of car batteries before lifting and tossing the shamed dogs into the water." 

What a whiner.  I don't think Vick feels he did anything wrong at all.


----------



## Coyote

JenyEliza said:


> You should have seen the freaking hero-worship of Vick when the Eagles played here in Atlanta.
> 
> OMG.  Atlanta FALCON FANS were wearing Mike Vick/Eagle jerseys.
> 
> He got a farking hero's welcome here....*from people who are also Barry Obama fans.*
> 
> It was so disgusting, some DJ's here have taken to calling the GA Dome "The Vick Dome".
> 
> Watch for Vick to end up in trouble before the end of 2010.  I see it coming.  He learned exactly NOTHING from his experience.  NOTHING.



Nice attempt to couple Obama supporters with Vick fans.  Also, disgustingly dishonest.


----------



## L.K.Eder

JenyEliza said:


> You should have seen the freaking hero-worship of Vick when the Eagles played here in Atlanta.
> 
> OMG.  Atlanta FALCON FANS were wearing Mike Vick/Eagle jerseys.
> 
> He got a farking hero's welcome here....from people who are also Barry Obama fans.
> 
> It was so disgusting, some DJ's here have taken to calling the GA Dome "The Vick Dome".
> 
> Watch for Vick to end up in trouble before the end of 2010.  I see it coming.  He learned exactly NOTHING from his experience.  NOTHING.



yeah but what came first, their love for a RB/QB hybrid negro who tortures dogs or their love for a Muslim Narcisisisiistic AMerica-destroying terrorist palling Chicago style mARXIST oBAMI SALAMI, teleprompter-addict? those lowlifes probably love all things dark and evil, like, for example, negroes. burp


----------



## Paulie

JenyEliza said:


> He learned exactly NOTHING from his experience.  NOTHING.



You base that on _what_, exactly?


----------



## JenyEliza

Paulie said:


> JenyEliza said:
> 
> 
> 
> He learned exactly NOTHING from his experience.  NOTHING.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You base that on _what_, exactly?
Click to expand...


His abject arrogance....and the lovely experience of caring for several of his rescued fighting dogs (my family volunteers for a homeless pet foundation that took in MANY of the animals he abused).

Oh....and the picture posted above is NOT EVEN CLOSE to the worst that happened to the poor animals he and his thug cronies tortured, maimed and killed.

Now he has the TEMERITY to whine about "how much he's been through" and "nobody else could go through what he has"???? FUCK HIM.  HE BROUGHT IT ON HIMSELF.

So fuck you very much....I know he's learned NOTHING.  Not a DAMNED THING.

The thug will be back in jail before 2010 is out.

Mark. My. Words.


----------



## K9Buck

I totally believe in forgiveness and redemption...when the offender is repentant.  I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe that Vick is repentant.  Perhaps he would still be torturing dogs today if had not been caught.


----------



## JenyEliza

Coyote said:


> JenyEliza said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should have seen the freaking hero-worship of Vick when the Eagles played here in Atlanta.
> 
> OMG.  Atlanta FALCON FANS were wearing Mike Vick/Eagle jerseys.
> 
> He got a farking hero's welcome here....*from people who are also Barry Obama fans.*
> 
> It was so disgusting, some DJ's here have taken to calling the GA Dome "The Vick Dome".
> 
> Watch for Vick to end up in trouble before the end of 2010.  I see it coming.  He learned exactly NOTHING from his experience.  NOTHING.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice attempt to couple Obama supporters with Vick fans.  Also, disgustingly dishonest.
Click to expand...



Were you here in Atlanta for the Falcons/Eagles game in the Vick Dome?

If not, shut the fuck up.  YOU don't have a clue what you're talking about.


----------



## Coyote

JenyEliza said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JenyEliza said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should have seen the freaking hero-worship of Vick when the Eagles played here in Atlanta.
> 
> OMG.  Atlanta FALCON FANS were wearing Mike Vick/Eagle jerseys.
> 
> He got a farking hero's welcome here....*from people who are also Barry Obama fans.*
> 
> It was so disgusting, some DJ's here have taken to calling the GA Dome "The Vick Dome".
> 
> Watch for Vick to end up in trouble before the end of 2010.  I see it coming.  He learned exactly NOTHING from his experience.  NOTHING.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice attempt to couple Obama supporters with Vick fans.  Also, disgustingly dishonest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Were you here in Atlanta for the Falcons/Eagles game in the Vick Dome?
> 
> If not, shut the fuck up.  YOU don't have a clue what you're talking about.
Click to expand...


Yes, I do.

Whether or not they support Obama has nothing to do with their support of an animal abusing neanderthal whiner - it's irrelevant.

Dog fighting and it's apologizers run the political gamut - we have a problem with that particular culture in my state and my state was not an Obama supporting state.  Trying to couple (insert whatever political figure you hate) with the dogfighting mentality is a cheap and ignorant shot.


----------



## JimH52

Personally, I am disappointed in Vick.  I figured that 18 months of him sitting in a cage would bring about some humility.  I guess I was wrong...


----------



## chanel

OJ syndrome. But jen is probably right. He'll be in trouble again.Just like OJ.


----------



## Gunny

Paulie said:


> Not that I'm defending his criminal actions, but you'd probably feel the same way if you'd committed a crime, realized the errors in your ways, did your time, and came to find out that half the fucking civilized WORLD apparently thinks you're garbage from here on out no matter what you do.
> 
> The fact is, there are people who've committed much worse atrocities and not only didn't get NEARLY the amount of scrutiny as Vick did, but also were pretty damn near collectively forgiven.  Even family members of murder victims often times will forgive the murderer.  And that's PEOPLE we're talking about, not animals.
> 
> I mean shit, our own government allies itself with dictators who have killed COUNTLESS people.  I don't see much public outcry about THAT.  But god forbid a professional football player kills dogs and then plays football for money again after doing his time in prison.



Agreed.  He got hammered.  You get caught fighting dogs around here, you mostly just get fined.

Not saying doing it is okay.  I'm saying he got punished for his name, not his crime.


----------



## California Girl

Zona said:


> He did time in a federal pen for his crimes.  He manned up and did it.  He is continuing on with his life.  Good for him.



Why 'good for him'? Does he have a viable option other than continuing on with his life? 

He broke the law - personally, I'd have executed his ass for cruelty to animals but I appreciate that most people think that's a tad excessive. However, personally, I'd be comfortable if he ends up living under a bridge somewhere. He's a scumbag.


----------



## Anguille

Xenophon said:


> What a monumental dickhead.
> 
> Yes, life is tough when you make millions for playing sports and get caught killing dogs.
> 
> They never should have let this asshole back in the NFL.


Sometimes. On very rare occasions you are absolutely right about something.
This is one of those times.


----------



## Anguille

JenyEliza said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JenyEliza said:
> 
> 
> 
> He learned exactly NOTHING from his experience.  NOTHING.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You base that on _what_, exactly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His abject arrogance....and the lovely experience of caring for several of his rescued fighting dogs (my family volunteers for a homeless pet foundation that took in MANY of the animals he abused).
> 
> Oh....and the picture posted above is NOT EVEN CLOSE to the worst that happened to the poor animals he and his thug cronies tortured, maimed and killed.
> 
> Now he has the TEMERITY to whine about "how much he's been through" and "nobody else could go through what he has"???? FUCK HIM.  HE BROUGHT IT ON HIMSELF.
> 
> So fuck you very much....I know he's learned NOTHING.  Not a DAMNED THING.
> 
> The thug will be back in jail before 2010 is out.
> 
> Mark. My. Words.
Click to expand...


Thank you to your family for helping those poor dogs.

It's amazing how resilient dogs can be. Most of them were able to be rehabilitated. It doesn't seem as if Vick is ever going to be though. He is still dangerous.


----------



## chanel

He paid his dues and then was offered a million plus and the adoration of his fans. If he had gotten a job bagibg nails omewhere I'd grant him a pass. But in in his prfession there's no humility and no redemption. But he'll screw up again. Maybe a second stint in jail might do the trick.


----------



## Anguille

Gunny said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not that I'm defending his criminal actions, but you'd probably feel the same way if you'd committed a crime, realized the errors in your ways, did your time, and came to find out that half the fucking civilized WORLD apparently thinks you're garbage from here on out no matter what you do.
> 
> The fact is, there are people who've committed much worse atrocities and not only didn't get NEARLY the amount of scrutiny as Vick did, but also were pretty damn near collectively forgiven.  Even family members of murder victims often times will forgive the murderer.  And that's PEOPLE we're talking about, not animals.
> 
> I mean shit, our own government allies itself with dictators who have killed COUNTLESS people.  I don't see much public outcry about THAT.  But god forbid a professional football player kills dogs and then plays football for money again after doing his time in prison.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  He got hammered.  You get caught fighting dogs around here, you mostly just get fined.
> 
> Not saying doing it is okay.  I'm saying he got punished for his name, not his crime.
Click to expand...


Handing out a fine for torturing animals is a travesty of justice but what would you expect from a state like Texas.  Vick's sentence was too short. It also seems he was not cured of whatever psychological  defect led him to become an animal torturer.


----------



## Anguille

JimH52 said:


> Somalia Takes Issue with Michael Vick's Ed Block Courage Award | Bleacher Report
> 
> Does Vick see himself as some kind of martyr?  I was in the guys corner when many didn't want to see him play again, but he seems to think he is the victim.
> *
> GET REAL VICK!*


From the article: 
"And to add insult to injury, this is what Vick had to say about receiving the award:
"I've had to overcome a lot, probably more than one single individual can handle or can bear. You take a look at what I've been through, you ask certain people to walk in my shoes, they probably couldn't do it. Probably 95 percent of the people in this worldbecause nobody had to endure what I've been through, situations I've been put in, situations I've placed myself in."​....

When asked for a comment about Vick's award and statement 7-year-old leukemia patient Sarah Davis summed it up best, "F*ck you." "


----------



## WillowTree

Coyote said:


> Just because worse things happen in the world doesn't make the abuse and killing of other animals somehow "acceptable".
> 
> If Michael Vick truely regretted his actions, I'd like to see evidence of that.  Thus far he has accepted no responsibility for what he did to those dogs nor any remorse.  Vick was involved in an extensive interstate dog fighting ring that operated over a period of five or more years. He was sentanced to 23 months and served only 18 months, some of that in home confinement.  He pled "not guilty" to animal cruelty charges  but those charges were eventually dropped in a plea bargain and he was convicted only of bankrolling a dogfighting conspiracy so the court and the public never got to here the details of what he did. Somehow, I think if they had and if they had seen the pictures they might not be so forgiving.
> 
> Many professionals lose their licenses when they are convicted of felonies and can never again practice in their professions.  Football players, however, do not seem to suffer much of a penalty.
> 
> Michael Vick's unpaid dues: Why dog advocates aren't moving on
> 
> "The details that got to me then and stay with me today involve the swimming pool that was used to kill some of the dogs" Reynolds wrote on her blog. "Jumper cables were clipped onto the ears of underperforming dogs then just like with a car the cables were connected to the terminals of car batteries before lifting and tossing the shamed dogs into the water."
> 
> What a whiner.  I don't think Vick feels he did anything wrong at all.



That is disgusting. I hope someone kicks Vick's ass over that for the rest of his natural born miserable existance! Jeezsus.


----------



## WillowTree

Anguille said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Somalia Takes Issue with Michael Vick's Ed Block Courage Award | Bleacher Report
> 
> Does Vick see himself as some kind of martyr?  I was in the guys corner when many didn't want to see him play again, but he seems to think he is the victim.
> *
> GET REAL VICK!*
> 
> 
> 
> From the article:
> "And to add insult to injury, this is what Vick had to say about receiving the award:
> "I've had to overcome a lot, probably more than one single individual can handle or can bear. You take a look at what I've been through, you ask certain people to walk in my shoes, they probably couldn't do it. Probably 95 percent of the people in this worldbecause nobody had to endure what I've been through, situations I've been put in, situations I've placed myself in."​....
> 
> *When asked for a comment about Vick's award and statement 7-year-old leukemia patient Sarah Davis summed it up best, "F*ck you." *"
Click to expand...




Little girls named Sarah are fiesty huh?


----------



## Valerie

Anguille said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Somalia Takes Issue with Michael Vick's Ed Block Courage Award | Bleacher Report
> 
> Does Vick see himself as some kind of martyr?  I was in the guys corner when many didn't want to see him play again, but he seems to think he is the victim.
> *
> GET REAL VICK!*
> 
> 
> 
> From the article:
> "And to add insult to injury, this is what Vick had to say about receiving the award:
> "I've had to overcome a lot, probably more than one single individual can handle or can bear. You take a look at what I've been through, you ask certain people to walk in my shoes, they probably couldn't do it. Probably 95 percent of the people in this worldbecause nobody had to endure what I've been through, situations I've been put in, situations I've placed myself in."​....
> 
> When asked for a comment about Vick's award and statement *7-year-old leukemia patient Sarah Davis summed it up best, "F*ck you.*" "
Click to expand...



  Is that true???



You think Vick was just referring to what he's "been through" with the dog situation or does he have all sorts of other personal baggage on his mind???


----------



## Anguille

Paulie said:


> Not that I'm defending his criminal actions, but you'd probably feel the same way if you'd committed a crime, realized the errors in your ways, did your time, and came to find out that half the fucking civilized WORLD apparently thinks you're garbage from here on out no matter what you do.
> 
> The fact is, there are people who've committed much worse atrocities and not only didn't get NEARLY the amount of scrutiny as Vick did, but also were pretty damn near collectively forgiven.  Even family members of murder victims often times will forgive the murderer.  And that's PEOPLE we're talking about, not animals.
> 
> I mean shit, our own government allies itself with dictators who have killed COUNTLESS people.  I don't see much public outcry about THAT.  But god forbid a professional football player kills dogs and then plays football for money again after doing his time in prison.


  Then there are those people who are found guilty of a crime they did not commit and spend years sometimes decades in jail. Then DNA or some new evidence is brought forward to prove their innocence and they are released. Many of these people come out saying they are just glad to have their freedom back and that they have no hard feelings, no bitterness about what happened to them.

These people have my admiration and sympathy. I gave Vick the benefit of the doubt when he was released. I thought his sentence was too lenient but I thought that he had every right to try to go back to playing football. Now I think he is truly a despicable person. I can't comprehend why he would be given this award in the first place. Doing so seems to imply that those who run profession football not only excuse violence and criminality, they applaud it.


----------



## Anguille

Valerie said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Somalia Takes Issue with Michael Vick's Ed Block Courage Award | Bleacher Report
> 
> Does Vick see himself as some kind of martyr?  I was in the guys corner when many didn't want to see him play again, but he seems to think he is the victim.
> *
> GET REAL VICK!*
> 
> 
> 
> From the article:
> "And to add insult to injury, this is what Vick had to say about receiving the award:"I've had to overcome a lot, probably more than one single individual can handle or can bear. You take a look at what I've been through, you ask certain people to walk in my shoes, they probably couldn't do it. Probably 95 percent of the people in this worldbecause nobody had to endure what I've been through, situations I've been put in, situations I've placed myself in."​....
> 
> When asked for a comment about Vick's award and statement *7-year-old leukemia patient Sarah Davis summed it up best, "F*ck you.*" "
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Is that true???
> 
> 
> 
> You think Vick was just referring to what he's "been through" with the dog situation or does he have all sorts of other personal baggage on his mind???
Click to expand...

I was just quoting from the article but it seems plausible.

Yeah, I wondered also what he was referring to specifically. I think he was referring to both. I don't know what his childhood was like but regardless, he's sounding like he's got a big chip on his shoulder and becoming a success as an overpaid professional athlete was not compensation enough for him.


----------



## Valerie

Anguille said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the article:
> "And to add insult to injury, this is what Vick had to say about receiving the award:"I've had to overcome a lot, probably more than one single individual can handle or can bear. You take a look at what I've been through, you ask certain people to walk in my shoes, they probably couldn't do it. Probably 95 percent of the people in this world&#8212;because nobody had to endure what I've been through, situations I've been put in, situations I've placed myself in."​....
> 
> When asked for a comment about Vick's award and statement *7-year-old leukemia patient Sarah Davis summed it up best, "F*ck you.*" "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that true???
> 
> 
> 
> You think Vick was just referring to what he's "been through" with the dog situation or does he have all sorts of other personal baggage on his mind???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was just quoting from the article but it seems plausible.
> 
> Yeah, I wondered also what he was referring to specifically. I think he was referring to both. I don't know what his childhood was like but regardless, he's sounding like he's got a big chip on his shoulder and becoming a success as an overpaid professional athlete was not compensation enough for him.
Click to expand...



I was just reading his bio and it doesn't seem like there was anything too terrible in his childhood or anything...The quote just made me wonder if there was more to it...NOT to make excuses for him at all, but just maybe understand wtf he said THAT in this context.
JockBio: Michael Vick Biography



As one writer pointed out, he did show _maybe_ a smidgen of remorse by acknowledging his own responsibility, at the very least.



> When you talk to Vick, it sometimes takes him a minute to get to the key point: *situations I&#8217;ve placed myself in.* That is what rankles for some, still, that minute it sometimes takes. But it is all part of a longer process.
> 
> Anyway, Vick said, &#8220;The thing I told Roger [Goodell] was that, 4 or 5 years from now, when I come to him, I&#8217;ll be able to say everything I told you I was going to do, I&#8217;m still doing it. That&#8217;s what I pride myself on. That&#8217;s my focus and that&#8217;s my goal.&#8221;
> 
> That might have seemed a more appropriate time for an award such as this one, not now. Then again, this is all about a bond within a locker room, a place that none of us can hope to understand from the outside.


Did Vick Deserve Courage Award? - The Fifth Down Blog - NYTimes.com


----------



## California Girl

I guess if Obama deserves the Noble Peace Prize, then Vicks deserves the courage award.


----------



## Paulie

K9Buck said:


> I totally believe in forgiveness and redemption...when the offender is repentant.  I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe that Vick is repentant.  Perhaps he would still be torturing dogs today if had not been caught.



Using the logic that if someone hadn't been caught, they'd still be committing their crimes, is ridiculous.

It takes GETTING CAUGHT, most of the time, to realize your errors.  It's that part that sometimes is required for one to finally open their eyes.

How anyone thinks the guy hasn't repented yet is beyond me.  He's made public apologies, and has spent his time so far on the right side of the law.

Now unless there's someone here that follows him around 24/7, none of you know whether or not he's been spending time at church for instance, repenting to his higher power.

So far the guy hasn't committed another crime.  That is called PROGRESS.

Give the fucking guy some TIME for crying out loud.  You don't reform in a matter of MONTHS.  It's a long process of regaining the collective trust.  Either you will never trust him again, or eventually you will come to see that he's earned it back.  There's really nothing in between.

I can see who in this thread has abandoned the idea of ever trusting him again.  Some have already mapped out his future.  That's pretty neat


----------



## Anguille

Valerie said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that true???
> 
> 
> 
> You think Vick was just referring to what he's "been through" with the dog situation or does he have all sorts of other personal baggage on his mind???
> 
> 
> 
> I was just quoting from the article but it seems plausible.
> 
> Yeah, I wondered also what he was referring to specifically. I think he was referring to both. I don't know what his childhood was like but regardless, he's sounding like he's got a big chip on his shoulder and becoming a success as an overpaid professional athlete was not compensation enough for him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I was just reading his bio and it doesn't seem like there was anything too terrible in his childhood or anything...The quote just made me wonder if there was more to it...NOT to make excuses for him at all, but just maybe understand wtf he said THAT in this context.
> JockBio: Michael Vick Biography
> 
> 
> 
> As one writer pointed out, he did show _maybe_ a smidgen of remorse by acknowledging his own responsibility, at the very least.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you talk to Vick, it sometimes takes him a minute to get to the key point: *situations Ive placed myself in.* That is what rankles for some, still, that minute it sometimes takes. But it is all part of a longer process.
> 
> Anyway, Vick said, The thing I told Roger [Goodell] was that, 4 or 5 years from now, when I come to him, Ill be able to say everything I told you I was going to do, Im still doing it. Thats what I pride myself on. Thats my focus and thats my goal.
> 
> That might have seemed a more appropriate time for an award such as this one, not now. Then again, this is all about a bond within a locker room, a place that none of us can hope to understand from the outside.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did Vick Deserve Courage Award? - The Fifth Down Blog - NYTimes.com
Click to expand...

He sounds like a complicated guy, to say the least.


----------



## Zona

He did his time.  He will continue to make more money than all of his haters (especially the ones in here) and go on with the American dream.

God Bless America.


----------



## Valerie

Anguille said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was just quoting from the article but it seems plausible.
> 
> Yeah, I wondered also what he was referring to specifically. I think he was referring to both. I don't know what his childhood was like but regardless, he's sounding like he's got a big chip on his shoulder and becoming a success as an overpaid professional athlete was not compensation enough for him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just reading his bio and it doesn't seem like there was anything too terrible in his childhood or anything...The quote just made me wonder if there was more to it...NOT to make excuses for him at all, but just maybe understand wtf he said THAT in this context.
> JockBio: Michael Vick Biography
> 
> 
> 
> As one writer pointed out, he did show _maybe_ a smidgen of remorse by acknowledging his own responsibility, at the very least.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you talk to Vick, it sometimes takes him a minute to get to the key point: *situations Ive placed myself in.* That is what rankles for some, still, that minute it sometimes takes. But it is all part of a longer process.
> 
> Anyway, Vick said, The thing I told Roger [Goodell] was that, 4 or 5 years from now, when I come to him, Ill be able to say everything I told you I was going to do, Im still doing it. Thats what I pride myself on. Thats my focus and thats my goal.
> 
> That might have seemed a more appropriate time for an award such as this one, not now. Then again, this is all about a bond within a locker room, a place that none of us can hope to understand from the outside.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did Vick Deserve Courage Award? - The Fifth Down Blog - NYTimes.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He sounds like a complicated guy, to say the least.
Click to expand...




Most likely he's just um.........not very smart.


----------



## Valerie

From the bio I linked to above:




> Michael's biggest challenge in his first year of college was homesickness. Most nights were spent on the phone with his mother. He begged Brenda to bring him home


----------



## Anguille

Paulie said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> 
> I totally believe in forgiveness and redemption...when the offender is repentant.  I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe that Vick is repentant.  Perhaps he would still be torturing dogs today if had not been caught.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using the logic that if someone hadn't been caught, they'd still be committing their crimes, is ridiculous.
> 
> It takes GETTING CAUGHT, most of the time, to realize your errors.  It's that part that sometimes is required for one to finally open their eyes.
> 
> How anyone thinks the guy hasn't repented yet is beyond me.  He's made public apologies, and has spent his time so far on the right side of the law.
> 
> Now unless there's someone here that follows him around 24/7, none of you know whether or not he's been spending time at church for instance, repenting to his higher power.
> 
> So far the guy hasn't committed another crime.  That is called PROGRESS.
> 
> Give the fucking guy some TIME for crying out loud.  You don't reform in a matter of MONTHS.  It's a long process of regaining the collective trust.  Either you will never trust him again, or eventually you will come to see that he's earned it back.  There's really nothing in between.
> 
> I can see who in this thread has abandoned the idea of ever trusting him again.  Some have already mapped out his future.  That's pretty neat
Click to expand...


You make some good points.

But I still think he should never be allowed to own a dog again. Even if there is a chance he could be rehabilitated to the point of never being a danger to animals again, I think it's best to err on the side of safety of animals.

You say:

"none of you know whether or not he's been spending time at church for instance, repenting to his higher power."

That would hold no sway with me. In fact, it would make me somewhat suspicious. Too many people think they can make a plea for forgiveness to some imaginary higher power and that that wipes their slate clean.


----------



## Gunny

WillowTree said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Somalia Takes Issue with Michael Vick's Ed Block Courage Award | Bleacher Report
> 
> Does Vick see himself as some kind of martyr?  I was in the guys corner when many didn't want to see him play again, but he seems to think he is the victim.
> *
> GET REAL VICK!*
> 
> 
> 
> From the article:
> "And to add insult to injury, this is what Vick had to say about receiving the award:
> "I've had to overcome a lot, probably more than one single individual can handle or can bear. You take a look at what I've been through, you ask certain people to walk in my shoes, they probably couldn't do it. Probably 95 percent of the people in this worldbecause nobody had to endure what I've been through, situations I've been put in, situations I've placed myself in."​....
> 
> *When asked for a comment about Vick's award and statement 7-year-old leukemia patient Sarah Davis summed it up best, "F*ck you." *"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Little girls named Sarah are fiesty huh?
Click to expand...


Yeah, there's some real class.  Maybe you want to kick her parents' asses for letting her talk that way?

Nah ... it's okay if you agree with the ignorant message.


----------



## Gunny

Anguille said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not that I'm defending his criminal actions, but you'd probably feel the same way if you'd committed a crime, realized the errors in your ways, did your time, and came to find out that half the fucking civilized WORLD apparently thinks you're garbage from here on out no matter what you do.
> 
> The fact is, there are people who've committed much worse atrocities and not only didn't get NEARLY the amount of scrutiny as Vick did, but also were pretty damn near collectively forgiven.  Even family members of murder victims often times will forgive the murderer.  And that's PEOPLE we're talking about, not animals.
> 
> I mean shit, our own government allies itself with dictators who have killed COUNTLESS people.  I don't see much public outcry about THAT.  But god forbid a professional football player kills dogs and then plays football for money again after doing his time in prison.
> 
> 
> 
> Then there are those people who are found guilty of a crime they did not commit and spend years sometimes decades in jail. Then DNA or some new evidence is brought forward to prove their innocence and they are released. Many of these people come out saying they are just glad to have their freedom back and that they have no hard feelings, no bitterness about what happened to them.
> 
> These people have my admiration and sympathy. I gave Vick the benefit of the doubt when he was released. I thought his sentence was too lenient but I thought that he had every right to try to go back to playing football. Now I think he is truly a despicable person. I can't comprehend why he would be given this award in the first place. Doing so seems to imply that those who run profession football not only excuse violence and criminality, they applaud it.
Click to expand...


His sentence was nowhere near lenient.


----------



## Anguille

Valerie said:


> From the bio I linked to above:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Michael's biggest challenge in his first year of college was homesickness. Most nights were spent on the phone with his mother. He begged Brenda to bring him home
Click to expand...



Oh, come on!!!! Our hearts should go out to him. He's a sensitive guy!  He wuvs his mommy! 

But seriously, if he was suffering from some form of depression I would never laugh at him for that. I kind of suspect though, that he's just an immature, self pitying, not too bright sociopath.


----------



## WillowTree

Paulie said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> 
> I totally believe in forgiveness and redemption...when the offender is repentant.  I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe that Vick is repentant.  Perhaps he would still be torturing dogs today if had not been caught.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using the logic that if someone hadn't been caught, they'd still be committing their crimes, is ridiculous.
> 
> It takes GETTING CAUGHT, most of the time, to realize your errors.  It's that part that sometimes is required for one to finally open their eyes.
> 
> How anyone thinks the guy hasn't repented yet is beyond me.  He's made public apologies, and has spent his time so far on the right side of the law.
> 
> Now unless there's someone here that follows him around 24/7, none of you know whether or not he's been spending time at church for instance, repenting to his higher power.
> 
> So far the guy hasn't committed another crime.  That is called PROGRESS.
> 
> Give the fucking guy some TIME for crying out loud.  You don't reform in a matter of MONTHS.  It's a long process of regaining the collective trust.  Either you will never trust him again, or eventually you will come to see that he's earned it back.  There's really nothing in between.
> 
> I can see who in this thread has abandoned the idea of ever trusting him again.  Some have already mapped out his future.  That's pretty neat
Click to expand...


How many times do you have to be told that once you break a trust it is almost impossible to gain it back? You might get lip service but the people never ever trust you again.


----------



## WillowTree

Gunny said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the article:
> "And to add insult to injury, this is what Vick had to say about receiving the award:
> "I've had to overcome a lot, probably more than one single individual can handle or can bear. You take a look at what I've been through, you ask certain people to walk in my shoes, they probably couldn't do it. Probably 95 percent of the people in this worldbecause nobody had to endure what I've been through, situations I've been put in, situations I've placed myself in."​....
> 
> *When asked for a comment about Vick's award and statement 7-year-old leukemia patient Sarah Davis summed it up best, "F*ck you." *"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Little girls named Sarah are fiesty huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, there's some real class.  Maybe you want to kick her parents' asses for letting her talk that way?
> 
> Nah ... it's okay if you agree with the ignorant message.
Click to expand...


lighten up Francis.. I was thinking of spunky Sarah Palin.


----------



## Paulie

Anguille said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> 
> I totally believe in forgiveness and redemption...when the offender is repentant.  I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe that Vick is repentant.  Perhaps he would still be torturing dogs today if had not been caught.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using the logic that if someone hadn't been caught, they'd still be committing their crimes, is ridiculous.
> 
> It takes GETTING CAUGHT, most of the time, to realize your errors.  It's that part that sometimes is required for one to finally open their eyes.
> 
> How anyone thinks the guy hasn't repented yet is beyond me.  He's made public apologies, and has spent his time so far on the right side of the law.
> 
> Now unless there's someone here that follows him around 24/7, none of you know whether or not he's been spending time at church for instance, repenting to his higher power.
> 
> So far the guy hasn't committed another crime.  That is called PROGRESS.
> 
> Give the fucking guy some TIME for crying out loud.  You don't reform in a matter of MONTHS.  It's a long process of regaining the collective trust.  Either you will never trust him again, or eventually you will come to see that he's earned it back.  There's really nothing in between.
> 
> I can see who in this thread has abandoned the idea of ever trusting him again.  Some have already mapped out his future.  That's pretty neat
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You make some good points.
> 
> But I still think he should never be allowed to own a dog again. Even if there is a chance he could be rehabilitated to the point of never being a danger to animals again, I think it's best to err on the side of safety of animals.
> 
> You say:
> 
> "none of you know whether or not he's been spending time at church for instance, repenting to his higher power."
> 
> That would hold no sway with me. In fact, it would make me somewhat suspicious. Too many people think they can make a plea for forgiveness to some imaginary higher power and that that wipes their slate clean.
Click to expand...


Well if you look up the definition of repent as a verb, those are things Vick has done.  The only reason the higher power part has no sway with you is because you're an atheist.  But look at it from the perspective of the person repenting to the higher power, though.  They are NOT an atheist, so in their own mind, they are showing regret and reproach for a past sin...that it happens to be directed toward something you don't believe in, in no way mitigates the significance of it to the person who is doing the repenting.  

Like I said, give the dude a chance.  He's tasted prison, and apparently he didn't enjoy it.  He has the distinct choice of continuing to be a _millionare living in comfort_, or spending the rest of his life in prison if he fucks up again.

Very few people get to have THAT distinct a choice in life, especially one that's guaranteed one way or the other.


----------



## Paulie

WillowTree said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> 
> I totally believe in forgiveness and redemption...when the offender is repentant.  I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe that Vick is repentant.  Perhaps he would still be torturing dogs today if had not been caught.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using the logic that if someone hadn't been caught, they'd still be committing their crimes, is ridiculous.
> 
> It takes GETTING CAUGHT, most of the time, to realize your errors.  It's that part that sometimes is required for one to finally open their eyes.
> 
> How anyone thinks the guy hasn't repented yet is beyond me.  He's made public apologies, and has spent his time so far on the right side of the law.
> 
> Now unless there's someone here that follows him around 24/7, none of you know whether or not he's been spending time at church for instance, repenting to his higher power.
> 
> So far the guy hasn't committed another crime.  That is called PROGRESS.
> 
> Give the fucking guy some TIME for crying out loud.  You don't reform in a matter of MONTHS.  It's a long process of regaining the collective trust.  Either you will never trust him again, or eventually you will come to see that he's earned it back.  There's really nothing in between.
> 
> I can see who in this thread has abandoned the idea of ever trusting him again.  Some have already mapped out his future.  That's pretty neat
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many times do you have to be told that once you break a trust it is almost impossible to gain it back? You might get lip service but the people never ever trust you again.
Click to expand...


What the fuck is it with you and speaking for EVERYONE?  

Who the hell do you think _YOU_ are?


----------



## Anguille

Paulie and Willow

So hot for each other they can't keep their hands off each other's posts.


----------



## WillowTree

Paulie said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Using the logic that if someone hadn't been caught, they'd still be committing their crimes, is ridiculous.
> 
> It takes GETTING CAUGHT, most of the time, to realize your errors.  It's that part that sometimes is required for one to finally open their eyes.
> 
> How anyone thinks the guy hasn't repented yet is beyond me.  He's made public apologies, and has spent his time so far on the right side of the law.
> 
> Now unless there's someone here that follows him around 24/7, none of you know whether or not he's been spending time at church for instance, repenting to his higher power.
> 
> So far the guy hasn't committed another crime.  That is called PROGRESS.
> 
> Give the fucking guy some TIME for crying out loud.  You don't reform in a matter of MONTHS.  It's a long process of regaining the collective trust.  Either you will never trust him again, or eventually you will come to see that he's earned it back.  There's really nothing in between.
> 
> I can see who in this thread has abandoned the idea of ever trusting him again.  Some have already mapped out his future.  That's pretty neat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many times do you have to be told that once you break a trust it is almost impossible to gain it back? You might get lip service but the people never ever trust you again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the fuck is it with you and speaking for EVERYONE?
> 
> Who the hell do you think _YOU_ are?
Click to expand...


I are WillowTree who are you? So instead of hollering do you have a difference of opinion?


----------



## WillowTree

Anguille said:


> Paulie and Willow
> 
> So hot for each other they can't keep their hands off each other's posts.



tell him about trust! see if he can get it. He ain't listening to me


----------



## Paulie

WillowTree said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie and Willow
> 
> So hot for each other they can't keep their hands off each other's posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tell him about trust! see if he can get it. He ain't listening to me
Click to expand...


I don't listen to idiots who presume to speak for all of human kind.

You're more of an elitist than any _liberal_ I've ever met.  

Suck on THAT, bitch.


----------



## chanel

Hey Paulie - if Vick was a cop, a preacher, or a Wall Street banker would you be so forgiving. He throws a fucking football and prob had his education paid for by others. He deserve no more respect than a thug who mugged a senior citizen and "paid his debt" Where's that guy's fucking medal?


----------



## WillowTree

Paulie said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie and Willow
> 
> So hot for each other they can't keep their hands off each other's posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tell him about trust! see if he can get it. He ain't listening to me
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't listen to idiots who presume to speak for all of human kind.
> 
> You're more of an elitist than any _liberal_ I've ever met.
> 
> Suck on THAT, bitch.
Click to expand...


oh just shut the fuck up, you can't admit it now but you are wrong. just go screw around on yer girl and she'll show you about trust. you won't never have it again. I guarandamntee it.


----------



## Paulie

That only depends on whether or not you think criminals deserve the chance to earn back trust.  Or if you're like Willow and you think trust can NEVER be earned back, then this discussion is already over because we will get nowhere.

Why are you assuming I'm more willing to forgive him because he throws a football?

And to compare him to a cop especially, is disingenuous.  A cop is in a position of authority and implied trust by his or her society.  A cop's main job is to STOP the breaking of laws, not BREAK them.  So I probably WOULD be less forgiving if it was a cop.

We had a state trooper down here in Cape May County that killed 2 teenage girls because he was speeding through an intersection in his cruiser, apparently responding to a call.  Dispatch records showed no call took place at that time.  The guy t-boned the girls' car and the collision was so hard that the girls' spinal cords were severed at their heads.  They were out picking up milk for their mom.

When I look at the facts, it seems obvious that the cop lied about the situation.  Interestingly enough, he was recently acquitted in the trial, and most intelligent people have no fucking idea how that happened.  The justice system certainly isn't perfect.

you'll have to forgive me if I think that's a little more unforgivable than a guy who killed _dogs_ and spent almost 2 years in prison for it.

And yes, I value a human life over an animal's life, with all things being equal.


----------



## WillowTree

Paulie said:


> That only depends on whether or not you think criminals deserve the chance to earn back trust.  Or if you're like Willow and you think trust can NEVER be earned back, then this discussion is already over because we will get nowhere.
> 
> Why are you assuming I'm more willing to forgive him because he throws a football?
> 
> And to compare him to a cop especially, is disingenuous.  A cop is in a position of authority and implied trust by his or her society.  A cop's main job is to STOP the breaking of laws, not BREAK them.  So I probably WOULD be less forgiving if it was a cop.
> 
> We had a state trooper down here in Cape May County that killed 2 teenage girls because he was speeding through an intersection in his cruiser, apparently responding to a call.  Dispatch records showed no call took place at that time.  The guy t-boned the girls' car and the collision was so hard that the girls' spinal cords were severed at their heads.  They were out picking up milk for their mom.
> 
> When I look at the facts, it seems obvious that the cop lied about the situation.  Interestingly enough, he was recently acquitted in the trial, and most intelligent people have no fucking idea how that happened.  The justice system certainly isn't perfect.
> 
> you'll have to forgive me if I think that's a little more unforgivable than a guy who killed _dogs_ and spent almost 2 years in prison for it.
> 
> And yes, I value a human life over an animal's life, with all things being equal.



Oh but you must forgive him and trust him to be a good little cop again or end up a hypocrite. But then we knew that didn't we? Why yes we did. Suck on that tater!


----------



## Paulie

WillowTree said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> tell him about trust! see if he can get it. He ain't listening to me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't listen to idiots who presume to speak for all of human kind.
> 
> You're more of an elitist than any _liberal_ I've ever met.
> 
> Suck on THAT, bitch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> oh just shut the fuck up, you can't admit it now but you are wrong. just go screw around on yer girl and she'll show you about trust. you won't never have it again. I guarandamntee it.
Click to expand...


Willow, do two things for me please...Just two....

ONE:  Don't flatter yourself so much as to think you have any fucking CLUE how my girl would respond in ANY situation, since you don't know her..

TWO:  Go the fuck back to school and get a proper education.  Your grammar is absolutely APPALLING.  

And here's an added third one:

Shut the fuck up about relationship infidelity for crying out loud.  That thread is over and done with and this has ZERO to do with it.

Oh, and a fourth:

See if you can find some way to NOT be such an ugly fucking bitch with no life beyond your keyboard.


----------



## WillowTree

Paulie said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't listen to idiots who presume to speak for all of human kind.
> 
> You're more of an elitist than any _liberal_ I've ever met.
> 
> Suck on THAT, bitch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh just shut the fuck up, you can't admit it now but you are wrong. just go screw around on yer girl and she'll show you about trust. you won't never have it again. I guarandamntee it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Willow, do two things for me please...Just two....
> 
> ONE:  Don't flatter yourself so much as to think you have any fucking CLUE how my girl would respond in ANY situation, since you don't know her..
> 
> TWO:  Go the fuck back to school and get a proper education.  Your grammar is absolutely APPALLING.
> 
> And here's an added third one:
> 
> Shut the fuck up about relationship infidelity for crying out loud.  That thread is over and done with and this has ZERO to do with it.
> 
> Oh, and a fourth:
> 
> See if you can find some way to NOT be such an ugly fucking bitch with no life beyond your keyboard.
Click to expand...


hey little boy,, go back and read.. see if you can comprehend WHO got ugly first! Can we trust you to do that? Wellcanwehuh? And, I guess if you can make assumptions about my life, I can damn sure make them about your girlfriends. or you be a hypocrite again.


----------



## Paulie

WillowTree said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> That only depends on whether or not you think criminals deserve the chance to earn back trust.  Or if you're like Willow and you think trust can NEVER be earned back, then this discussion is already over because we will get nowhere.
> 
> Why are you assuming I'm more willing to forgive him because he throws a football?
> 
> And to compare him to a cop especially, is disingenuous.  A cop is in a position of authority and implied trust by his or her society.  A cop's main job is to STOP the breaking of laws, not BREAK them.  So I probably WOULD be less forgiving if it was a cop.
> 
> We had a state trooper down here in Cape May County that killed 2 teenage girls because he was speeding through an intersection in his cruiser, apparently responding to a call.  Dispatch records showed no call took place at that time.  The guy t-boned the girls' car and the collision was so hard that the girls' spinal cords were severed at their heads.  They were out picking up milk for their mom.
> 
> When I look at the facts, it seems obvious that the cop lied about the situation.  Interestingly enough, he was recently acquitted in the trial, and most intelligent people have no fucking idea how that happened.  The justice system certainly isn't perfect.
> 
> you'll have to forgive me if I think that's a little more unforgivable than a guy who killed _dogs_ and spent almost 2 years in prison for it.
> 
> And yes, I value a human life over an animal's life, with all things being equal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh but you must forgive him and trust him to be a good little cop again or end up a hypocrite. But then we knew that didn't we? Why yes we did. Suck on that tater!
Click to expand...


A hypocrite?  A cop's job is to stop crime, not commit it.  If you commit a crime as a cop, you've lost that ability.  A football player's job is to play football productively.  If he can still play productively, then what does killing dogs in his personal life have to do with his job?

You're a fucking idiot.  When I say that Vick should be able to be a cop, then you can call hypocrisy.  Otherwise you're attempted point fails miserably.


----------



## K9Buck

Paulie said:


> Using the logic that if someone hadn't been caught, they'd still be committing their crimes, is ridiculous.



So, you think it's "ridiculous" to surmise that someone committing crimes would continue to do so until they are caught?  I don't share your perspective.  Many get away with crimes but keep going back to the "well" one too many times.  Have arrested drunk drivers ever driven drunk before?  Has an arrested shoplifter ever shoplifted before?

Mike was a committed dog fighter.  He had invested significant time and money in fighting dogs.  He bought a house and gave free room-and-board to a friend who was to be caretaker and kennel manager.  Mike personally beat, drowned, electrocuted and shot dogs that were losing, sick or were badly injured.  On the contrary, I think it's fair to say that it's a BIG "reach" to think that Mike would have just had a change-of-heart and abandoned his hideous hobby.   

Mike was and, I'm disappointed to believe, remains a disturbed individual.     

Now, please remember that I never said he wasn't repentant, only that I hadn't seen it.  A flippant "I made a mistake, I'm sorry" doesn't convince me that he's truly sorry and that he's a changed person.  You may have a different point of view.  I respect that.  However, 
I need to see some evidence of repentance to believe that one is repentant.  Sorry, but I just haven't seen it.  I'd like to know that I'm wrong on this and that Mike's a changed man.  It should go without saying that dog fighting is an evil and hideous activity.  I happen to believe that anybody into dog fighting is in need of some serious soul cleansing.  

Perhaps you have a link to an article or a video where Mike explains his repentance and how he has changed his ways.  If you have it, please consider sharing it.  I hope it's true.  If you don't have it then I can only surmise that Mike is NOT a changed many.  Please excuse me if my perception offends you, but that's how I feel.  Thank you for your consideration of my alternative perspective.


----------



## K9Buck

Paulie said:


> Not that I'm defending his criminal actions, but you'd probably feel the same way if you'd committed a crime, realized the errors in your ways, did your time, and came to find out that half the fucking civilized WORLD apparently thinks you're garbage from here on out no matter what you do.



Paulie, it's true that some people, no matter how sorry and repentant the offendee is, are willing to forgive.  I think it could be argued that an unwillingness to forgive is a greater offense and, perhaps, the greatest offense.  

With that said, we all know that Mike is a very controversial figure.  We all know that there remains great bitterness and resentment against Mike for what he did.  What we all know but, perhaps Mike doesn't, is that this bitterness and resentment will remain indefinitely unless Mike does something about it.  Now, if Mike is truly a repentant and changed man then he could, and should, do something that demonstrates that he is, indeed, changed and repentant.  Surely, Mike knows his public perception.  Mike's agent has to know it, right? 

Perhaps Mike could start/join a movement against dog fighting.  Mike could try and show people that dog fighting is NOT "cool" but, in fact, deranged.  When Mike starts to do these types of things then people will start to come around.  Not all of them will, of course, but the majority will.  

One day I think Mike will get it.  At the moment I don't believe he does.


----------



## chanel

Hey Paulie - I knew those girls who were killed Fuck you


----------



## Valerie

chanel said:


> Hey Paulie - I knew those girls who were killed Fuck you











Paulie said:


> When I look at the facts, it seems obvious that the cop lied about the situation.  Interestingly enough, he was recently acquitted in the trial, and most intelligent people have no fucking idea how that happened.  The justice system certainly isn't perfect.
> 
> you'll have to forgive me if I think that's a little more *unforgivable* than a guy who killed _dogs_ and spent almost 2 years in prison for it.
> 
> And yes, I value a human life over an animal's life, with all things being equal.


----------



## Anguille

Paulie said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie and Willow
> 
> So hot for each other they can't keep their hands off each other's posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tell him about trust! see if he can get it. He ain't listening to me
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't listen to idiots who presume to speak for all of human kind.
> 
> You're more of an elitist than any _liberal_ I've ever met.
> 
> Suck on THAT, bitch.
Click to expand...


This thread is getting steamy!!!


----------



## Anguille

Paulie said:


> you'll have to forgive me if I think that's a little more unforgivable than a guy who killed _dogs_ and spent almost 2 years in prison for it.
> 
> And yes, I value a human life over an animal's life, with all things being equal.


Okay Paulie. I will try to forgive you  ... for being artarded!!

It's not a question of the value of human life versus that of animal life. 

It's a question of one person repeatedly and with malice aforethought torturing and killing innocent animals versus a person who was reckless and who abused his position as a cop with a siren on his car and who ended up killing two girls by accident. The cop did not intentionally aim to kill those girls. But Vick did intentionally aim to torture and kill those dogs. Even if you still insist that the instantaneous death of the girls is more henious than the torture and slow death of the dogs because dogs are worth less than humans, you must realize that animal torturers often step up their game when animal torture becomes mundane and they then start torturing and killing people. This is why I would have a harder time forgiving and trusting Vick again than I would that cop. Though the cop really doesn't deserve much either.


----------



## JimH52

This Thread is officially pronounced Dead!


----------



## Coyote

Paulie said:


> That only depends on whether or not you think criminals deserve the chance to earn back trust.  Or if you're like Willow and you think trust can NEVER be earned back, then this discussion is already over because we will get nowhere.
> 
> Why are you assuming I'm more willing to forgive him because he throws a football?
> 
> And to compare him to a cop especially, is disingenuous.  A cop is in a position of authority and implied trust by his or her society.  A cop's main job is to STOP the breaking of laws, not BREAK them.  So I probably WOULD be less forgiving if it was a cop.
> 
> We had a state trooper down here in Cape May County that killed 2 teenage girls because he was speeding through an intersection in his cruiser, apparently responding to a call.  Dispatch records showed no call took place at that time.  The guy t-boned the girls' car and the collision was so hard that the girls' spinal cords were severed at their heads.  They were out picking up milk for their mom.
> 
> When I look at the facts, it seems obvious that the cop lied about the situation.  Interestingly enough, he was recently acquitted in the trial, and most intelligent people have no fucking idea how that happened.  The justice system certainly isn't perfect.
> 
> you'll have to forgive me if I think that's a little more unforgivable than a guy who killed _dogs_ and spent almost 2 years in prison for it.
> 
> And yes, I value a human life over an animal's life, with all things being equal.



I agree with you.  Criminals DO deserve a chance to earn back trust. People can change and they deserve the opportunity.  But the key word here is EARN and part of that process is accepting responsibility for what you did and showing remorse not just by words but through your actions.  Has Vick?

And, frankly just because you find another crime less forgiveable does not make what Vick did MORE forgiveable.


----------



## WillowTree

Coyote said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> That only depends on whether or not you think criminals deserve the chance to earn back trust.  Or if you're like Willow and you think trust can NEVER be earned back, then this discussion is already over because we will get nowhere.
> 
> Why are you assuming I'm more willing to forgive him because he throws a football?
> 
> And to compare him to a cop especially, is disingenuous.  A cop is in a position of authority and implied trust by his or her society.  A cop's main job is to STOP the breaking of laws, not BREAK them.  So I probably WOULD be less forgiving if it was a cop.
> 
> We had a state trooper down here in Cape May County that killed 2 teenage girls because he was speeding through an intersection in his cruiser, apparently responding to a call.  Dispatch records showed no call took place at that time.  The guy t-boned the girls' car and the collision was so hard that the girls' spinal cords were severed at their heads.  They were out picking up milk for their mom.
> 
> When I look at the facts, it seems obvious that the cop lied about the situation.  Interestingly enough, he was recently acquitted in the trial, and most intelligent people have no fucking idea how that happened.  The justice system certainly isn't perfect.
> 
> you'll have to forgive me if I think that's a little more unforgivable than a guy who killed _dogs_ and spent almost 2 years in prison for it.
> 
> And yes, I value a human life over an animal's life, with all things being equal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you.  Criminals DO deserve a chance to earn back trust. People can change and they deserve the opportunity.  But the key word here is EARN and part of that process is accepting responsibility for what you did and showing remorse not just by words but through your actions.  Has Vick?
> 
> And, frankly just because you find another crime less forgiveable does not make what Vick did MORE forgiveable.
Click to expand...




There was a line in a movie "Schindler's List." I have never forgotten it. To paraphrase. "The measure of a man is in knowing he has the power over life and death, and he chooses life." Vick horribly abused defenseless creatures who had absolutely no choice in what happened to them. It is unforgivable.


----------



## Gunny

WillowTree said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> That only depends on whether or not you think criminals deserve the chance to earn back trust.  Or if you're like Willow and you think trust can NEVER be earned back, then this discussion is already over because we will get nowhere.
> 
> Why are you assuming I'm more willing to forgive him because he throws a football?
> 
> And to compare him to a cop especially, is disingenuous.  A cop is in a position of authority and implied trust by his or her society.  A cop's main job is to STOP the breaking of laws, not BREAK them.  So I probably WOULD be less forgiving if it was a cop.
> 
> We had a state trooper down here in Cape May County that killed 2 teenage girls because he was speeding through an intersection in his cruiser, apparently responding to a call.  Dispatch records showed no call took place at that time.  The guy t-boned the girls' car and the collision was so hard that the girls' spinal cords were severed at their heads.  They were out picking up milk for their mom.
> 
> When I look at the facts, it seems obvious that the cop lied about the situation.  Interestingly enough, he was recently acquitted in the trial, and most intelligent people have no fucking idea how that happened.  The justice system certainly isn't perfect.
> 
> you'll have to forgive me if I think that's a little more unforgivable than a guy who killed _dogs_ and spent almost 2 years in prison for it.
> 
> And yes, I value a human life over an animal's life, with all things being equal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you.  Criminals DO deserve a chance to earn back trust. People can change and they deserve the opportunity.  But the key word here is EARN and part of that process is accepting responsibility for what you did and showing remorse not just by words but through your actions.  Has Vick?
> 
> And, frankly just because you find another crime less forgiveable does not make what Vick did MORE forgiveable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a line in a movie "Schindler's List." I have never forgotten it. To paraphrase. "The measure of a man is in knowing he has the power over life and death, and he chooses life." Vick horribly abused defenseless creatures who had absolutely no choice in what happened to them. It is unforgivable.
Click to expand...


Incorrect.  Forgiveness is not yours to give nor withhold.


----------



## Gunny

WillowTree said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> That only depends on whether or not you think criminals deserve the chance to earn back trust.  Or if you're like Willow and you think trust can NEVER be earned back, then this discussion is already over because we will get nowhere.
> 
> Why are you assuming I'm more willing to forgive him because he throws a football?
> 
> And to compare him to a cop especially, is disingenuous.  A cop is in a position of authority and implied trust by his or her society.  A cop's main job is to STOP the breaking of laws, not BREAK them.  So I probably WOULD be less forgiving if it was a cop.
> 
> We had a state trooper down here in Cape May County that killed 2 teenage girls because he was speeding through an intersection in his cruiser, apparently responding to a call.  Dispatch records showed no call took place at that time.  The guy t-boned the girls' car and the collision was so hard that the girls' spinal cords were severed at their heads.  They were out picking up milk for their mom.
> 
> When I look at the facts, it seems obvious that the cop lied about the situation.  Interestingly enough, he was recently acquitted in the trial, and most intelligent people have no fucking idea how that happened.  The justice system certainly isn't perfect.
> 
> you'll have to forgive me if I think that's a little more unforgivable than a guy who killed _dogs_ and spent almost 2 years in prison for it.
> 
> And yes, I value a human life over an animal's life, with all things being equal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you.  Criminals DO deserve a chance to earn back trust. People can change and they deserve the opportunity.  But the key word here is EARN and part of that process is accepting responsibility for what you did and showing remorse not just by words but through your actions.  Has Vick?
> 
> And, frankly just because you find another crime less forgiveable does not make what Vick did MORE forgiveable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a line in a movie "Schindler's List." I have never forgotten it. To paraphrase. "The measure of a man is in knowing he has the power over life and death, and he chooses life." Vick horribly abused defenseless creatures who had absolutely no choice in what happened to them. It is unforgivable.
Click to expand...


And let's compare this post to the one you made about the Peruvian with TB ... that it would be cheaper to put him on a plane and fly him back to Peru.  That IS forgivable?


----------



## WillowTree

Gunny said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you.  Criminals DO deserve a chance to earn back trust. People can change and they deserve the opportunity.  But the key word here is EARN and part of that process is accepting responsibility for what you did and showing remorse not just by words but through your actions.  Has Vick?
> 
> And, frankly just because you find another crime less forgiveable does not make what Vick did MORE forgiveable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a line in a movie "Schindler's List." I have never forgotten it. To paraphrase. "The measure of a man is in knowing he has the power over life and death, and he chooses life." Vick horribly abused defenseless creatures who had absolutely no choice in what happened to them. It is unforgivable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And let's compare this post to the one you made about the Peruvian with TB ... that it would be cheaper to put him on a plane and fly him back to Peru.  That IS forgivable?
Click to expand...


What is the problem with that? Why should the American taxpayer foot his medical bills? Yes that is forgivable. And it is also correct. Peru has doctors and hospitals. It's not like he will be dumped in the jungle.


----------



## Paulie

chanel said:


> Hey Paulie - I knew those girls who were killed Fuck you



How do I get a "fuck you" for that???

I think you misread something.


----------



## Gunny

WillowTree said:


> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was a line in a movie "Schindler's List." I have never forgotten it. To paraphrase. "The measure of a man is in knowing he has the power over life and death, and he chooses life." Vick horribly abused defenseless creatures who had absolutely no choice in what happened to them. It is unforgivable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And let's compare this post to the one you made about the Peruvian with TB ... that it would be cheaper to put him on a plane and fly him back to Peru.  That IS forgivable?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is the problem with that? Why should the American taxpayer foot his medical bills? Yes that is forgivable. And it is also correct. Peru has doctors and hospitals. It's not like he will be dumped in the jungle.
Click to expand...



Give it up, huh?  You're all about saving dogs BRED to fight in pits, but sending some dude home with TB.

Why should the American taxpayer foot the bill for YOUR ethics?  Vick got hammered for what he did.  Most people pay a fine and maybe get probation.  

Again, it's not your place to forgive.  or is Christianity a selective belief for you?  He paid his debt to society.  if he's in trouble with God, he will pay his debt to Him.  I haven't see anywhere in the Bible or the Constitution where it says anyone pays WillowTree a damned thing.


----------

