# Illegal Aliens Bring Incurable Diseases Into The Country!



## Sovereignty

During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries.  Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine and marijuana, crossed into the U. S. from the Southern border.

Page 3.

Federal law enforcement estimates that 10 percent to 30 percent of illegal aliens are actually apprehended and 10 percent to 20 percent of drugs are seized.2 Therefore, in
2005, as many as 10 to 4 million illegal aliens crossed into the United States; and as much as 2.2 to 1.1 million kilograms of cocaine and 11.6 to 5.8 million kilograms of
marijuana entered the United States.

The triple threat of drug smuggling, illegal and unknown crossers, and rising violence are the reality facing communities. While many illegal aliens cross the border searching for employment, not all illegal aliens are crossing into the United States to find work. Law
enforcement has stated that some individuals come across the border because they have been forced to leave their home countries due to their criminal activity. These dangerous criminals are fleeing the law in other countries and seeking refuge in the United States.

Homeland Security Report:

http://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdf


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## Sovereignty

Illegal Aliens and American Medicine, article 6.

Many illegal aliens harbor fatal diseases that American Medicine fought and vanquished long ago, such as drug-resistant tuberculosis, malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue and Chagas disease.   

The Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons 
Volume 10 Spring 2005

Journal of the American Physicians and Surgeons - Vol. 10 No. 1


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## Sovereignty

The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States.

Deborah Schurman-Kauflin, Ph.D. - Criminal Profiler : Crime & Terrorism investigation resources


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## Walt

Good read Soveringty. It also proved something many have been saying. That there are terrorists already here.

According to ICE testimony, on September 8, 2004, ICE agents arrested Neeran Zaia and
Basima Sesi. The human smuggling organization headed by Zaia specialized in
smuggling Iraqi, Jordanian, and Syrian Nationals and was responsible for the movement
of more than 200 aliens throughout the investigation.109 The investigation was initiated
when a confidential informant familiar with the organization reported ongoing smuggling
activities by Zaia, who had been previously convicted of alien smuggling. Investigative
efforts revealed that the aliens were smuggled from the Middle East to staging areas in
Central and South America. Once in these staging areas, the conspirators would arrange
to smuggle the aliens from these sites into the U.S. or its territories.110


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## Mad Scientist

Did you know the age of consent in Mexico is *12*?:
A table of worldwide ages of consent, including US states


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## AllieBaba

Don't you understand...it's racist to point out things like that. Shhhhh...we are supposed to pretend it isn't happening.


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## Nevadamedic

Mad Scientist said:


> Did you know the age of consent in Mexico is *12*?:
> A table of worldwide ages of consent, including US states



That's because they arn't as civilized there as we are here.


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## Gunny

Sovereignty said:


> During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries.  Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine and marijuana, crossed into the U. S. from the Southern border.
> 
> Page 3.
> 
> Federal law enforcement estimates that 10 percent to 30 percent of illegal aliens are actually apprehended and 10 percent to 20 percent of drugs are seized.2 Therefore, in
> 2005, as many as 10 to 4 million illegal aliens crossed into the United States; and as much as 2.2 to 1.1 million kilograms of cocaine and 11.6 to 5.8 million kilograms of
> marijuana entered the United States.
> 
> The triple threat of drug smuggling, illegal and unknown crossers, and rising violence are the reality facing communities. While many illegal aliens cross the border searching for employment, not all illegal aliens are crossing into the United States to find work. Law
> enforcement has stated that some individuals come across the border because they have been forced to leave their home countries due to their criminal activity. These dangerous criminals are fleeing the law in other countries and seeking refuge in the United States.
> 
> Homeland Security Report:
> 
> http://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdf





Sovereignty said:


> Illegal Aliens and American Medicine, article 6.
> 
> Many illegal aliens harbor fatal diseases that American Medicine fought and vanquished long ago, such as drug-resistant tuberculosis, malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue and Chagas disease.
> 
> The Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons
> Volume 10 Spring 2005
> 
> Journal of the American Physicians and Surgeons - Vol. 10 No. 1





Sovereignty said:


> The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States.
> 
> Deborah Schurman-Kauflin, Ph.D. - Criminal Profiler : Crime & Terrorism investigation resources



I'm all for enforcing our laws and our borders but you're not going to spam this subforum with sensationalist crap.


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## Sovereignty

Gunny said:


> I'm all for enforcing our laws and our borders but you're not going to spam this subforum with sensationalist crap.



*I find these facts quite truthful and accurate.  If we can't talk about illegal alien issues what can we talk about in this subforum?

Respectfully,

Sov* 

sensationalism >noun (in the media) the use of exciting or shocking stories or language at the expense of accuracy, in order to provoke public interest or excitement. 
-DERIVATIVES sensationalist >noun & >adjective sensationalistic >adjective.


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## Gunny

Sovereignty said:


> *I find these facts quite truthful and accurate.  If we can't talk about illegal alien issues what can we talk about in this subforum?
> 
> Respectfully,
> 
> Sov*
> 
> sensationalism >noun (in the media) the use of exciting or shocking stories or language at the expense of accuracy, in order to provoke public interest or excitement.
> -DERIVATIVES sensationalist >noun & >adjective sensationalistic >adjective.



I don't see facts.  I see generalizations and baseless stats reported as "fact."  For example, the first post in this thread makes statistical claims with no sources provided to substantiate those claims.

Your thread titles are overly-generalized claims that are not substantiated by fact in the threads themselves, and are misleading.

My point being this:  I am completely against illegal immigrants.  They are criminals by their mere presence in this country.  They do not pay taxes yet cannot be denied support from our social infrastructure and we, the taxpayers, foot that bill.

Our government can't avoid the topic fast enough and pays only lip service to it just long enough to get another issue and front and get this one back on the back burner.

BUT, just as I will argue with those enablers and their bogus claims supporting the criminal activities of these criminals, I will also argue against people on my side of the issus sensationalizing and/or contriving/misrepresenting facts.

Mexicans are not a bunch of child molesting plague carriers.  That's bullshit.  Use the truth.  It can't be denied.  Regardless the goddy-two-shoes reasons presented by advocates of allowing these illegals to hang on our purse strings and destroy the base of our social infrastructure, they're criminals.  The law is clear.  They need to be detained and deported where found.  Support the law.

End of story.


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## don57texas

Gunny, after being here only two days and reading your flacid response, I'll be leaving the board. Your pronouncement of the post as 'spam' is enough for me. I perceive your position to be that as an apologist for mexicans and their illegal invasion behavior..Don't bother responding, I won't be reading it. See you in the re-education camps,vato.
   Rip, we appreciate your hard work finding a new board but this isn't it for me, not with an Admin like Gunny. 


" We will fight you until Hell freezes over, then we will fight you on ice "


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## Gunny

don57texas said:


> Gunny, after being here only two days and reading your flacid response, I'll be leaving the board. Your pronouncement of the post as 'spam' is enough for me. I perceive your position to be that as an apologist for mexicans and their illegal invasion behavior..Don't bother responding, I won't be reading it. See you in the re-education camps,vato.
> Rip, we appreciate your hard work finding a new board but this isn't it for me, not with an Admin like Gunny.
> 
> 
> " We will fight you until Hell freezes over, then we will fight you on ice "



There's neither anything flacid about my response, nor does it any way, shape, nor form support illegal immigration.  I am 100% FOR enforcing the law.  Which is made pretty clear in my post.

What your REAL problem is that I'm not some extremist on the issue like you, who needs to fabricate facts and blow shit our of proportion to make my arguments.  The actual supportable and documented facts stand on their own without the bullshit propoganda.

If you want to leave the board because you are intolerant to differing opinions, see ya.  You proving your blind, willful ignorance and intolerance is no skin off MY nose.


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## strollingbones

don57texas said:


> Gunny, after being here only two days and reading your flacid response, I'll be leaving the board. Your pronouncement of the post as 'spam' is enough for me. I perceive your position to be that as an apologist for mexicans and their illegal invasion behavior..Don't bother responding, I won't be reading it. See you in the re-education camps,vato.
> Rip, we appreciate your hard work finding a new board but this isn't it for me, not with an Admin like Gunny.
> 
> 
> " We will fight you until Hell freezes over, then we will fight you on ice "



o how funny....i have been here a couple of months now..this is a well ran board and before you think that means i agree with gunny on everything ..think again..but i do agree with him on these threads just being rah rah threads of no value...more or less ....people preaching to the choir.

i love your accusing gunny of being an apologist etc.  you are so far off base there it is not funny...

gunny has dealt with you fairy and has told you what he thinks.  you do not have to agree...but i find your little pouting fit...humorous...as will anyone who has been on this board for any time will find it.

apparently there aint much fight in you...if that is all it took from gunny to make you run.


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## del

don57texas said:


> Gunny, after being here only two days and reading your flacid response, I'll be leaving the board. Your pronouncement of the post as 'spam' is enough for me. I perceive your position to be that as an apologist for mexicans and their illegal invasion behavior..Don't bother responding, I won't be reading it. See you in the re-education camps,vato.
> Rip, we appreciate your hard work finding a new board but this isn't it for me, not with an Admin like Gunny.
> 
> 
> " We will fight you until Hell freezes over, then we will fight you on ice "



don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya


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## Ravi

don57texas said:


> Gunny, after being here only two days and reading your flacid response, I'll be leaving the board. Your pronouncement of the post as 'spam' is enough for me. I perceive your position to be that as an apologist for mexicans and their illegal invasion behavior..Don't bother responding, I won't be reading it. See you in the re-education camps,vato.
> Rip, we appreciate your hard work finding a new board but this isn't it for me, not with an Admin like Gunny.
> 
> 
> " We will fight you until Hell freezes over, then we will fight you on ice "


Adiós, usted odia apestoso.


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## Gunny

Ravi said:


> Adiós, usted odia apestoso.




Por qué fija usted en espanol?


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## Paulie

Ravi said:


> Adiós, usted odia apestoso.



That doesn't make any sense, Rav.

You just literally said "Goodbye, you hate smelly".  

And "usted"?  So even though you don't like the poster, and apparently think he/she stinks, you still gave them the respect that comes with "usted".

I think you better ask your driveway crew for a crash course in the Spanish language.


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## CactusCarlos

don57texas said:


> Gunny, after being here only two days and reading your flacid response, I'll be leaving the board. Your pronouncement of the post as 'spam' is enough for me. I perceive your position to be that as an apologist for mexicans and their illegal invasion behavior..Don't bother responding, I won't be reading it. See you in the re-education camps,vato.
> Rip, we appreciate your hard work finding a new board but this isn't it for me, not with an Admin like Gunny.



Why the hell did you leave Democratic Underground in the first place?


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## Ravi

Paulitics said:


> I think you better ask your driveway crew for a crash course in the Spanish language.


That possibility exists, Pauli, though usted is the form used when you don't have a relationship with someone. If I'd have been talking to you, I would have said  _tú_ _are a doosh_.


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## Paulie

CactusCarlos said:


> Why the hell did you leave Democratic Underground in the first place?



Why would you think someone with a right-leaning position on illegal immigration hung out at DU?


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## Paulie

Ravi said:


> That possibility exists, Pauli, though usted is the form used when you don't have a relationship with someone. If I'd have been talking to you, I would have said  _tú_ _are a doosh_.



And that's why I love ya, Rav.


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## Ravi

Paulitics said:


> And that's why I love ya, Rav.




I credit myself with the fact that you couldn't stay away.


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## Paulie

Ravi said:


> I credit myself with the fact that you couldn't stay away.



And deservingly so.

I saw what you said about me the other day, too.


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## strollingbones

Paulitics said:


> And deservingly so.
> 
> I saw what you said about me the other day, too.



o damn you did leave...welcome back


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## Luissa

Sovereignty said:


> Illegal Aliens and American Medicine, article 6.
> 
> Many illegal aliens harbor fatal diseases that American Medicine fought and vanquished long ago, such as drug-resistant tuberculosis, malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue and Chagas disease.
> 
> The Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons
> Volume 10 Spring 2005
> 
> Journal of the American Physicians and Surgeons - Vol. 10 No. 1


Well good thing we get vaccines and by the way you have to get a tb test if you are working in close contact with the public such as a nursing home or as a teacher. And they have a cure for leprosy along with the fact the number of illegal aliens coming into the US is down. But hey lets spread some more fear around.


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## Grismonda

Gunny said:


> I don't see facts.  I see generalizations and baseless stats reported as "fact."  For example, the first post in this thread makes statistical claims with no sources provided to substantiate those claims.
> 
> Your thread titles are overly-generalized claims that are not substantiated by fact in the threads themselves, and are misleading.
> 
> My point being this:  I am completely against illegal immigrants.  They are criminals by their mere presence in this country.  They do not pay taxes yet cannot be denied support from our social infrastructure and we, the taxpayers, foot that bill.
> 
> Our government can't avoid the topic fast enough and pays only lip service to it just long enough to get another issue and front and get this one back on the back burner.
> 
> BUT, just as I will argue with those enablers and their bogus claims supporting the criminal activities of these criminals, I will also argue against people on my side of the issus sensationalizing and/or contriving/misrepresenting facts.
> 
> Mexicans are not a bunch of child molesting plague carriers.  That's bullshit.  Use the truth.  It can't be denied.  Regardless the goddy-two-shoes reasons presented by advocates of allowing these illegals to hang on our purse strings and destroy the base of our social infrastructure, they're criminals.  The law is clear.  They need to be detained and deported where found.  Support the law.
> 
> End of story.



Watch out Gunny, you are dealing with a poster from the aol Immigration HATE Board.  Facts elude many of them, including Soverinty, who has been known to dispute my posts on aol with vile, disgusting thoughts and images _ad hominen_.  It's dicey over there, when stating facts and pointing out what does not qualify as facts.  Regarding immigration, facts are twisted to support hating anyone entering the USA, even  those doing so legally...and mostly those from  Latin America.


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## Gunny

Luissa27 said:


> Well good thing we get vaccines and by the way you have to get a tb test if you are working in close contact with the public such as a nursing home or as a teacher. And they have a cure for leprosy along with the fact the number of illegal aliens coming into the US is down. But hey lets spread some more fear around.



Illegals can't get tb tests without exposing themselves as illegals.  Here, most work in construction and restaurants.  Outside the city, it's mostly agriculture.  

They don't hold jobs as teachers or doctors that require credentials.  

Bearing in mind that is a general statement.  I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule, and how illegals are emplyed is going to vary by location, I'm sure.


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## Againsheila

Gunny said:


> I'm all for enforcing our laws and our borders but you're not going to spam this subforum with sensationalist crap.



<<<

Define "senstionalist crap" please.


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## Grismonda

Againsheila said:


> <<<
> 
> Define "senstionalist crap" please.



Welcome Sheila!  Choco here.
_
# subject matter that is calculated to excite and please vulgar tastes
# the journalistic use of subject matter that appeals to vulgar tastes; "the tabloids relied on sensationalism to maintain their circulation"
# sensualism: (philosophy) the ethical doctrine that feeling is the only criterion for what is good
# empiricism: (philosophy) the doctrine that knowledge derives from experience_
Defined by Princeton Universtiy in Wordnet.


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## Shogun

you new people really do need to figure out the pecking order around here.  You came to our house.  Acting like a drama queen when our admins and mods help you figure out our rules just doesn't float.  


and i'm someone who is firmly against illegal immigration.


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## Againsheila

Gunny said:


> I'm all for enforcing our laws and our borders but you're not going to spam this subforum with sensationalist crap.





Gunny said:


> I don't see facts.  I see generalizations and baseless stats reported as "fact."  For example, the first post in this thread makes statistical claims with no sources provided to substantiate those claims.
> 
> Your thread titles are overly-generalized claims that are not substantiated by fact in the threads themselves, and are misleading.
> 
> My point being this:  I am completely against illegal immigrants.  They are criminals by their mere presence in this country.  They do not pay taxes yet cannot be denied support from our social infrastructure and we, the taxpayers, foot that bill.
> 
> Our government can't avoid the topic fast enough and pays only lip service to it just long enough to get another issue and front and get this one back on the back burner.
> 
> BUT, just as I will argue with those enablers and their bogus claims supporting the criminal activities of these criminals, I will also argue against people on my side of the issus sensationalizing and/or contriving/misrepresenting facts.
> 
> Mexicans are not a bunch of child molesting plague carriers.  That's bullshit.  Use the truth.  It can't be denied.  Regardless the goddy-two-shoes reasons presented by advocates of allowing these illegals to hang on our purse strings and destroy the base of our social infrastructure, they're criminals.  The law is clear.  They need to be detained and deported where found.  Support the law.
> 
> End of story.



<<<

I think you've lost the highground here, gunny.  Each of the topics with cites is about illegal immigrants, then you cry out that "mexicans are not a bunch of child molesting plague carriers".  There wasn't anything in the 3 posts you quoted that said that.  BTW, not all illegals are Mexicans but all illegals have broken our laws and if they'll break one law why not another?  To top that off, they take jobs from the American people and they keep our wages low.  Don't believe me, just read what the Mexicans are saying about the massive numbers going home and how it's lowering their wages and taking their jobs.


Legal immigrants go through medical and background checks.  They almost denied my sister inlaw entry because she had a bullet in her and she also had been exposed to TB, though it wasn't active.  Once she got here, she had to go on the medicine for a year.  The bullet apparently happened when she was 6 and her mother refused to talk about it.  My sister in law came here LEGALLY from Thailand.  I lived in Mexico for a while back when I was in college and when I came back, I tested positive for TB.  That means I was exposed while I was there.  I had to take the pills for a year and I have a chest xray now anytime a tb test is required as mine will always show as possitive.  The truth is that TB is prevelent in 3rd world nations and when they come here legally, they do not go through the medical treatment and so they spread it and that's why TB is increasing in our country.  I fully expect that as the numbers of illegals diminishes (they are going home now that they ruined our economy), the number of new people with TB will go down as well.


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## Againsheila

Shogun said:


> you new people really do need to figure out the pecking order around here.  You came to our house.  Acting like a drama queen when our admins and mods help you figure out our rules just doesn't float.
> 
> 
> and i'm someone who is firmly against illegal immigration.



<<

Please explain to us "newbies" what exactly is the pecking order and why is there one in the first place.  I always thought in a public forum everyone was equal, now I find there is a "pecking order"?

If so, I think perhaps this place won't work for us.  Sorry Rip, you tried, but these people don't seem to want anyone new here.

Somehow I don't think calling quotes from real articles "sensationalist crap" to be a proper adminishment.  Nor do I believe an admonishment was called for, though I will admit I'm new here and don't know all the rules yet.  Are we only to discuss what Gunny says we can?  Exactly which articles are we allowed to site?


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## Grismonda

Againsheila said:


> <<
> 
> Somehow I don't think calling quotes from real articles "sensationalist crap" to be a proper adminishment.



Sheila, William Randolph Hearst stoked the beginning of the Spanish-American War because he allowed to be printed in his newspapers "sensationalist crap".  I think what Gunny is saying, is research, compare..come up with empirical data to support posts.  

I have seen threads on other boards, ie; aol, in which posters truly believe Mexicans are soley responsilbe for lice outbreaks.  This type of bigotry does not solve our pressing immigration issues.  Now I know I have been called names like "Mexican lover"...etc. on aol by some of the more viseral posters..which is meant as insulting.  All because I defend "humans" of all nations...  Not often, over there, have I had good discussion and debate regarding real issues surrounding illegal immigration.  This is why I have stopped visiting that board and have only posted on political discussion boards.  

BTW, I'm against ALL immigration, legal and illegal, except for marriages and some off spring.  Our country can not handle this type of influx of people.


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## Againsheila

Grismonda said:


> Sheila, William Randolph Hearst stoked the beginning of the Spanish-American War because he allowed to be printed in his newspapers "sensationalist crap".  I think what Gunny is saying, is research, compare..come up with empirical data to support posts.
> 
> I have seen threads on other boards, ie; aol, in which posters truly believe Mexicans are soley responsilbe for lice outbreaks.  This type of bigotry does not solve our pressing immigration issues.  Now I know I have been called names like "Mexican lover"...etc. on aol by some of the more viseral posters..which is meant as insulting.  All because I defend "humans" of all nations...  Not often, over there, have I had good discussion and debate regarding real issues surrounding illegal immigration.  This is why I have stopped visiting that board and have only posted on political discussion boards.
> 
> BTW, I'm against ALL immigration, legal and illegal, except for marriages and some off spring.  Our country can not handle this type of influx of people.



<<<

One of those quotes called "sensationalist crap" came from the Department of Homeland Security.


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## tigerbob

don57texas said:


> Gunny, after being here only two days and reading your flacid response, I'll be leaving the board. Your pronouncement of the post as 'spam' is enough for me. I perceive your position to be that as an apologist for mexicans and their illegal invasion behavior..Don't bother responding, I won't be reading it. See you in the re-education camps,vato.
> Rip, we appreciate your hard work finding a new board but this isn't it for me, not with an Admin like Gunny.
> 
> 
> " We will fight you until Hell freezes over, then we will fight you on ice "



Our loss is the rest of the internet's gain.


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## Grismonda

Againsheila said:


> <<<
> 
> One of those quotes called "sensationalist crap" came from the Department of Homeland Security.



So you are saying one quote from the Dept. of Homeland Security validates all other posts by the OP?  Inquiring minds would like to know.  For starters, the title of this thread is a fallacy.


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## tigerbob

Grismonda said:


> So you are saying one quote from the Dept. of Homeland Security validates all other posts by the OP?  Inquiring minds would like to know.  For starters, the title of this thread is a fallacy.



I'm glad to hear that.  I checked out the link to the Homeland Security thing and waded through several pages without finding it before eventually giving up in exasperation.

Nothing bugs me more than substantiation being provided 'somewhere' in a multiple page document.


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## Shogun

Againsheila said:


> <<
> 
> Please explain to us "newbies" what exactly is the pecking order and why is there one in the first place.  I always thought in a public forum everyone was equal, now I find there is a "pecking order"?
> 
> If so, I think perhaps this place won't work for us.  Sorry Rip, you tried, but these people don't seem to want anyone new here.
> 
> Somehow I don't think calling quotes from real articles "sensationalist crap" to be a proper adminishment.  Nor do I believe an admonishment was called for, though I will admit I'm new here and don't know all the rules yet.  Are we only to discuss what Gunny says we can?  Exactly which articles are we allowed to site?



The pecking order places Gunny, the ADMIN, at the top of the food chain.  the forum rules are evident.  You can either conform and enjoy the forum or keep walking down highway interweb 109.  Before you launch into some "this is a public forum and I have the freedom of speech" diatribe you might wanna actually browse our site rules.  We didn't come to Aol.  You came to USMB.


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## strollingbones

Againsheila said:


> <<
> 
> Please explain to us "newbies" what exactly is the pecking order and why is there one in the first place.  I always thought in a public forum everyone was equal, now I find there is a "pecking order"?
> 
> If so, I think perhaps this place won't work for us.  Sorry Rip, you tried, but these people don't seem to want anyone new here.
> 
> Somehow I don't think calling quotes from real articles "sensationalist crap" to be a proper adminishment.  Nor do I believe an admonishment was called for, though I will admit I'm new here and don't know all the rules yet.  Are we only to discuss what Gunny says we can?  Exactly which articles are we allowed to site?




newbies are very welcomed here...hence the introduction thread.  what was not welcomed was the demand for aol refugees to have their own forum etc.
perhaps a good read of the introduction threads will show you where the aols jumped in with large fonts etc..demanding this and that....hardly the way to make a good first impression.  and now...all this sillie crap about...we didnt get our way...we are leaving.. do you realize how childish you sound??

you gave the board what...7 posts....do you have a spine...if so..what do you use it for?


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## AVG-JOE

Gunny said:


> I don't see facts.  I see generalizations and baseless stats reported as "fact."  For example, the first post in this thread makes statistical claims with no sources provided to substantiate those claims.
> 
> Your thread titles are overly-generalized claims that are not substantiated by fact in the threads themselves, and are misleading.
> 
> My point being this:  I am completely against illegal immigrants.  They are criminals by their mere presence in this country.  They do not pay taxes yet cannot be denied support from our social infrastructure and we, the taxpayers, foot that bill.
> 
> Our government can't avoid the topic fast enough and pays only lip service to it just long enough to get another issue and front and get this one back on the back burner.
> 
> BUT, just as I will argue with those enablers and their bogus claims supporting the criminal activities of these criminals, I will also argue against people on my side of the issus sensationalizing and/or contriving/misrepresenting facts.
> 
> *Mexicans are not a bunch of child molesting plague carriers.  That's bullshit.*  Use the truth.  It can't be denied.  Regardless the goddy-two-shoes reasons presented by advocates of allowing these illegals to hang on our purse strings and destroy the base of our social infrastructure, they're criminals.  The law is clear.  They need to be detained and deported where found.  Support the law.
> 
> End of story.



*This is the truth.*  Pointing it out does not make one a sympathizer of _illegal_ immigration.  Like any other 'discussion' based on such extremes, any discussion on illegal immigration with this kind of foundation is moot sensationalism.

-Joe


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## Againsheila

Grismonda said:


> So you are saying one quote from the Dept. of Homeland Security validates all other posts by the OP?  Inquiring minds would like to know.  For starters, the title of this thread is a fallacy.



<<<

No, the op had 3 quotes, one of which was from the Department of Homeland Security.  Gunny called all of it "sensationalist crap" and said this was not going to be allowed here.  IMO, if you don't like the source, you should provide something to disprove it, not just call it "sensationalist crap" and not allow it.  I remember when Clinton was in power "Capital Hill Blue" was considered a biased source and no one believed it, but when it started talking about about Bush, suddenly it was a reliable source.  The truth is that the only way you are going to find the real truth is to get it from several sources.  I know for a fact that the increase in TB in this country comes from ILLEGAL aliens.  Legal aliens have to go through a health check and if they have tb, they can't come, if they have been exposed to tb, they have to take the pills to insure they won't affect the rest of the country.  30 years ago, we didn't have the amount of tb we have  now, but then again, we didn't have the number of illegals we have now either.  Every American gets a tb test regularly, even in school, or they did when I was a kid.  I even got one before I went to Mexico and again when I came back.  I traveled all over Mexico, I lived with a Mexican family and I was exposed to TB.  I don't think it's sensationalist crap to claim that the increase in TB comes from illegals who sneak into our country and don't have to go through a health check or a background check.

The truth is that while they may not have it when they come here, they most likely were exposed to it in their own country and because of they don't get a health check and don't take the pills, it becomes active here and they infect 100s and 1000s of people.  TB can remain dormant for years before an outbreak, that's why we have had regular tb tests in America for years.  That's why we give peopel who test positive those pills to take for a year.


----------



## Againsheila

Grismonda said:


> Sheila, William Randolph Hearst stoked the beginning of the Spanish-American War because he allowed to be printed in his newspapers "sensationalist crap".  I think what Gunny is saying, is research, compare..come up with empirical data to support posts.
> 
> I have seen threads on other boards, ie; aol, in which posters truly believe Mexicans are soley responsilbe for lice outbreaks.  This type of bigotry does not solve our pressing immigration issues.  Now I know I have been called names like "Mexican lover"...etc. on aol by some of the more viseral posters..which is meant as insulting.  All because I defend "humans" of all nations...  Not often, over there, have I had good discussion and debate regarding real issues surrounding illegal immigration.  This is why I have stopped visiting that board and have only posted on political discussion boards.
> 
> BTW, I'm against ALL immigration, legal and illegal, except for marriages and some off spring.  Our country can not handle this type of influx of people.



<<<

I agree that blaming mexicans solely for lice outbreaks is a little rediculous.  I too have defended Mexicans.  Heck I used to live in Mexico with a Mexican family.  The problem is that the Mexicans that are sneaking across the border are the poorest of the poor or the criminals.  Ocassionally there will be a middleclass Mexican that comes here to make money so they can go home and live like kings.  Elivra, the woman that stayed in the Chicago Church was not poor in Mexico, she was building her own home, she had a college education in Mexico, she came up here because she realized she could make more money here than there, and she could live comfortably on our money.  She got paid lots of money for her son from our government.  ADHD is considered a health impairment and since she was working under the table, she would have collected ssi on him plus MPC, which can be over $1500 a month.  How many Americans that are working to do you know that make that much?  Add what she made on top of that and she made quite a little bundle to send home.  

Mexico is sending their poor here so that we will take care of them and they are having children here so that we will pay them.  In fact, though i didn't keep the report, I read that Mexican citizens in America have more children than Mexican citizens in Mexico, what does that tell you?


----------



## Againsheila

Shogun said:


> The pecking order places Gunny, the ADMIN, at the top of the food chain.  the forum rules are evident.  You can either conform and enjoy the forum or keep walking down highway interweb 109.  Before you launch into some "this is a public forum and I have the freedom of speech" diatribe you might wanna actually browse our site rules.  We didn't come to Aol.  You came to USMB.



<<<

Don't worry, I won't launch one of those "this is a public forum" speeches.  I have come to the conclusion that it's obvious this isn't a public forum, it's a private one, with their own rules, the only question is, do I wish to abide by those rules, is this the place for me.  I have a problem with an ADMIN lambasting someone for providing quotes to prove his point.  I've always believed you should be able to back up your opinion with facts but if those facts are dismissed out of hand, how do you debate on a fair level?

The words "pecking order" really bother me.  I can understand having a board monitor, but that's a monitor, someone who insures the rules are being followed that doesn't make him/her any better or worse than anyone else here, it just means they have a job to do.  If they do their job well, it can make the board a good experience.  My first experience with Gunny was not a positive one.  I will see how this plays out but if everyone who posts articles on here that Gunny disagrees with is lambasted or kicked out, then this obviously won't work out for me.  I happen to like hearing differing viewpoints, otherwise, why be here in the first place?


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## Againsheila

strollingbones said:


> newbies are very welcomed here...hence the introduction thread.  what was not welcomed was the demand for aol refugees to have their own forum etc.
> perhaps a good read of the introduction threads will show you where the aols jumped in with large fonts etc..demanding this and that....hardly the way to make a good first impression.  and now...all this sillie crap about...we didnt get our way...we are leaving.. do you realize how childish you sound??
> 
> you gave the board what...7 posts....*do you have a spine...if so..what do you use it for?*



<<<

OHHH, my first personal attack, maybe this is a good place after all.  lol


----------



## Grismonda

Againsheila said:


> <<<
> 
> No, the op had 3 quotes, one of which was from the Department of Homeland Security.  Gunny called all of it "sensationalist crap" and said this was not going to be allowed here.  IMO, if you don't like the source, you should provide something to disprove it, not just call it "sensationalist crap" and not allow it.  I remember when Clinton was in power "Capital Hill Blue" was considered a biased source and no one believed it, but when it started talking about about Bush, suddenly it was a reliable source.  The truth is that the only way you are going to find the real truth is to get it from several sources.  I know for a fact that the increase in TB in this country comes from ILLEGAL aliens.  Legal aliens have to go through a health check and if they have tb, they can't come, if they have been exposed to tb, they have to take the pills to insure they won't affect the rest of the country.  30 years ago, we didn't have the amount of tb we have  now, but then again, we didn't have the number of illegals we have now either.  Every American gets a tb test regularly, even in school, or they did when I was a kid.  I even got one before I went to Mexico and again when I came back.  I traveled all over Mexico, I lived with a Mexican family and I was exposed to TB.  I don't think it's sensationalist crap to claim that the increase in TB comes from illegals who sneak into our country and don't have to go through a health check or a background check.
> 
> The truth is that while they may not have it when they come here, they most likely were exposed to it in their own country and because of they don't get a health check and don't take the pills, it becomes active here and they infect 100s and 1000s of people.  TB can remain dormant for years before an outbreak, that's why we have had regular tb tests in America for years.  That's why we give peopel who test positive those pills to take for a year.



What I read was an article by author Madeleine Pelner Cosner, self proclaimed medievalist who founded Institute for Medieval and Renaissance Studies among other things.  Her article regarding foreigners bringing over disease lacks empirical support data for her claims.  

We are living in a global society, thousands of planes fly into America from foreign countries everyday, carrying millions of visitors.  Of course disease will be spread...and I do not doubt stoways or those sneaky enough to cross into the US carry any more or any less than those coming from China for a vacation to Las Vegas and Disneyland.  

Remember, AIDS was spread by someone traveling legally.


----------



## Againsheila

Grismonda said:


> What I read was an article by author Madeleine Pelner Cosner, self proclaimed medievalist who founded Institute for Medieval and Renaissance Studies among other things.  Her article regarding foreigners bringing over disease lacks empirical support data for her claims.
> 
> We are living in a global society, thousands of planes fly into America from foreign countries everyday, carrying millions of visitors.  Of course disease will be spread...and I do not doubt stoways or those sneaky enough to cross into the US carry any more or any less than those coming from China for a vacation to Las Vegas and Disneyland.
> 
> Remember, AIDS was spread by someone traveling legally.



<<<

Those flying on those planes are not poor and most likely had a recent medical check up.  Many of them have to pass certain tests before they can even come here on a tourist visa.  Though there was one man recently that came on those planes legally something like 68 times and he had that violent strain of tb.  How many did he expose.  What's worse, our government did nothing about it, he was an upperclass Mexican.  An American who flew to Europe on his honeymoon comes home and is locked up but they let this man cross the border 68 times with that same disease.

The poor coming across the border though, are much more likely to bring diseases with them as they haven't had the medical checks, nor the money for regular healthcare.  If you think about it, it's common sense.


----------



## Grismonda

Againsheila said:


> <<<
> 
> Those flying on those planes are not poor and most likely had a recent medical check up.  Many of them have to pass certain tests before they can even come here on a tourist visa.  Though there was one man recently that came on those planes legally something like 68 times and he had that violent strain of tb.  How many did he expose.  What's worse, our government did nothing about it, he was an upperclass Mexican.  An American who flew to Europe on his honeymoon comes home and is locked up but they let this man cross the border 68 times with that same disease.
> 
> The poor coming across the border though, are much more likely to bring diseases with them as they haven't had the medical checks, nor the money for regular healthcare.  If you think about it, it's common sense.



WHAT are you talking about?  Regardless whether a traveler comes here from China or France, s/he is not required to pass a medical test....and probably they have not been to a doctor.  

I traveled to China last month...and I did not have to visit a doctor before traveling.  I also visited Japan.  No requirements there either.  I did take comfort when arriving in China, passengers are required to step through a portal which takes the passenger's temperature.  Those over normal are held by immigration for further medical inspection.  Bird flu and SARS are bad news...  Chinese and other Asian countries are approaching this problem with intelligence, using scientific data and technological methods available to combat it.  This is the the paradigm the US should adopt.  It is effective and works.


----------



## Shogun

Againsheila said:


> <<<
> 
> Don't worry, I won't launch one of those "this is a public forum" speeches.  I have come to the conclusion that it's obvious this isn't a public forum, it's a private one, with their own rules, the only question is, do I wish to abide by those rules, is this the place for me.  I have a problem with an ADMIN lambasting someone for providing quotes to prove his point.  I've always believed you should be able to back up your opinion with facts but if those facts are dismissed out of hand, how do you debate on a fair level?
> 
> The words "pecking order" really bother me.  I can understand having a board monitor, but that's a monitor, someone who insures the rules are being followed that doesn't make him/her any better or worse than anyone else here, it just means they have a job to do.  If they do their job well, it can make the board a good experience.  My first experience with Gunny was not a positive one.  I will see how this plays out but if everyone who posts articles on here that Gunny disagrees with is lambasted or kicked out, then this obviously won't work out for me.  I happen to like hearing differing viewpoints, otherwise, why be here in the first place?




Gunny is a fair man.  I say this as both king troll around these here parts and a former mod.  You are free to disagree with the application of his administrative role but i'd suggest you use PMs.  If this place isn't what you are looking for then good luck finding you new internet home.


LONG LIVE THE MOTHERFUCKING KING.


----------



## Againsheila

Grismonda said:


> WHAT are you talking about?  Regardless whether a traveler comes here from China or France, s/he is not required to pass a medical test....and probably they have not been to a doctor.
> 
> I traveled to China last month...and I did not have to visit a doctor before traveling.  I also visited Japan.  No requirements there either.  I did take comfort when arriving in China, passengers are required to step through a portal which takes the passenger's temperature.  Those over normal are held by immigration for further medical inspection.  Bird flu and SARS are bad news...  Chinese and other Asian countries are approaching this problem with intelligence, using scientific data and technological methods available to combat it.  This is the the paradigm the US should adopt.  It is effective and works.



So you have never had a physical or a tb test?  

A temperature test will not tell if you've been exposed to tb.  TB as well as other diseases are prevelent in the poor of 3rd world countries, common sense tells you that they are bringing these disease in when they sneak across the border.

Do you really believe I was exposed to TB by the middle class Mexican family I was living with?  No it was from visiting the poor outlying villages where the people can't afford medical care.

And there are different requirements for different countries.  We face fewer restrictions visiting 3rd world countries than their people face coming here, again, for obvious reasons.  I used to work with United Airlines and I can tell you that the requirements for visiting other countries are different with each country you visit, some, like Japan, don't require anything more than a passport, others require a recent medical check up and proof of vaccinations.  I had to have that to get my tourist visa to go to mexico, granted that was 30 years ago and things may have changed.  Today,I don't think you even need a visa to go to Mexico.  Each country has it's own requirements.


----------



## Grismonda

Againsheila said:


> So you have never had a physical or a tb test?
> 
> A temperature test will not tell if you've been exposed to tb.  TB as well as other diseases are prevelent in the poor of 3rd world countries, common sense tells you that they are bringing these disease in when they sneak across the border.
> 
> Do you really believe I was exposed to TB by the middle class Mexican family I was living with?  No it was from visiting the poor outlying villages where the people can't afford medical care.
> 
> And there are different requirements for different countries.  We face fewer restrictions visiting 3rd world countries than their people face coming here, again, for obvious reasons.  I used to work with United Airlines and I can tell you that the requirements for visiting other countries are different with each country you visit, some, like Japan, don't require anything more than a passport, others require a recent medical check up and proof of vaccinations.  I had to have that to get my tourist visa to go to mexico, granted that was 30 years ago and things may have changed.  Today,I don't think you even need a visa to go to Mexico.  Each country has it's own requirements.




Sheila, stick to the facts.  Here are the latest stats regarding TB provided by the CDC, a far more reliable source than some medieval expert.  By your own standard, Asians in America by far carry more TB than Mexicans.  

USA: What are the rates of TB for different racial and ethnic populations?

    *

      American Indians or Alaska Natives: 5.9 cases per 100,000 persons
    *

      Asians: 26.3 cases per 100,000 persons
    *

      Blacks: 9.4 cases per 100,000 persons
    *

      Native Hawaiians and other Pacific Islanders: 23.0 cases per 100,000 persons
    *

      Hispanics or Latinos: 8.5 cases per 100,000 persons
    *

      Whites: 1.1 cases per 100,000 persons


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## Sovereignty

If you click on the blue links provided in each of my posts, you'll find the Source of the information.  I&#8217;m amazed that people refuse to acknowledge reputable facts!  

When you set up an immigration message board, people are going to talk about illegal immigration.  Americans have no problem with LEGAL immigration.  We welcome immigrants that come the right way and become American citizens.

People have to distinguish between the two: Legal Immigrants and illegal aliens.  They are not the same.  It&#8217;s like a bank customer making a legal lawful withdrawal from his bank account and a person robbing a bank, there is quite a difference between the two.


Department of Homeland Security Report:
http://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdf 


***

The Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons 
Volume 10 Spring 2005
Journal of the American Physicians and Surgeons - Vol. 10 No. 1

Journal of the American Physicians and Surgeons - Vol. 10 No. 1

***
&#8220;The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States&#8221;.

Deborah Schurman-Kauflin, Ph.D. - Criminal Profiler : Crime & Terrorism investigation resources

Deborah Schurman-Kauflin, Ph.D. - Criminal Profiler : Crime & Terrorism investigation resources

***


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## Luissa

Gunny said:


> Illegals can't get tb tests without exposing themselves as illegals.  Here, most work in construction and restaurants.  Outside the city, it's mostly agriculture.
> 
> They don't hold jobs as teachers or doctors that require credentials.
> 
> Bearing in mind that is a general statement.  I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule, and how illegals are emplyed is going to vary by location, I'm sure.


Yeah in those places they will be only exposing themselves, tb isn't that easy to get, it isn't hard but it is not as easy as one would think. Plus one can be exposed to TB and still not get it which can also give you a postive test. 
And my statement was just saying one needs to have a test if they are going to be in close enough contact where they can spread the disease. If you go to rehab you even have to get a tb test. And my other point is, it is not something we really need to worry to much about. Other legal immigrants can carry such disease as tb, it is not just something mexicans carry!


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## Sovereignty

Illegal Aliens are not considered a Race.

I know a person that contracted TB from and illegal alien.  The point is many people would still be alive if the illegal aliens entered the country the right way and got MEDICAL EXAMS before entering.

Cases of Leprosy on The Rise In The U.S., The New York Times.  &#8220;While there were some 900 recorded cases in the United States 40 years ago, today more than 7,000 people have leprosy.&#8221;  Leprosy is an airborne virus, it can also be spread by touching and coughing 

Steve Quayle News Alerts
Leprosy in America: new cause for concern &mdash; JSCMS
LP: LEPROSY, HEPATITIS AND TUBERCULOSIS RISING FAST IN THE U.S.


----------



## Ravi

lol, that bullshit was already discredited. Look around you, how many people have you seen with leprosy? 7,000 cases in thirty years...my God, you can make your case against illegals without mouthing lies and hate. People like you are more dangerous than any group of Mexicans will ever be.


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## tigerbob

Ravi said:


> lol, that bullshit was already discredited. Look around you, how many people have you seen with leprosy? 7,000 cases in thirty years...my God, you can make your case against illegals without mouthing lies and hate. People like you are more dangerous than any group of Mexicans will ever be.



How do you spot someone with leprosy?  Unless they lost a limb while walking down the street in front of me I would probably have no idea.


----------



## Sovereignty

Ravi said:


> lol, that bullshit was already discredited. Look around you, how many people have you seen with leprosy? 7,000 cases in thirty years...my God, you can make your case against illegals without mouthing lies and hate. People like you are more dangerous than any group of Mexicans will ever be.



You are very prejudice against your own race.  Don't be so hard on yourself.  The illegal aliens are not one race of people, they're from all over the world.  Why take it so personal?  If you don't like the story go sue the New York Times their the ones who printed the story WORLDWIDE to begin with!

Now, go and drink your KOOLAID.  OR do you even know what that is?


----------



## Ravi

Sovereignty said:


> You are very prejudice against your own race.  Don't be so hard on yourself.  The illegal aliens are not one race of people, they're from all over the world.  Why take it so personal?  If you don't like the story go sue the New York Times their the ones who printed the story WORLDWIDE to begin with!
> 
> Now, go and drink your KOOLAID.  OR do you even know what that is?


You've no idea what race I am, dope.

I don't take it personal, I see you for what you are...an extremist hater with no care about understanding anything but some bullshit fearmongering. 

But please, continue, because people like you do nothing but earn the disgust of anyone rational.


----------



## random3434

tigerbob said:


> How do you spot someone with leprosy?  Unless they lost a limb while walking down the street in front of me I would probably have no idea.



Leprosy!

My Gosh I have Leprosy!

There goes my ear again, into my beer again!


Leprosy!

My Gosh I have Leprosy!


There goes my eye again, into my pie again!


Leprosy!

My Gosh I have Leprosy!



There goes my tooth again, into my stew again!


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## Ravi

echo Zulu said:


> leprosy!
> 
> My Gosh I Have Leprosy!
> 
> There Goes My Ear Again, Into My Beer Again!
> 
> 
> Leprosy!
> 
> My Gosh I Have Leprosy!
> 
> 
> There Goes My Eye Again, Into My Pie Again!
> 
> 
> Leprosy!
> 
> My Gosh I Have Leprosy!
> 
> 
> 
> There Goes My Tooth Again, Into My Stew Again!


:d


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## Sovereignty

Ravi said:


> You've no idea what race I am, dope.
> 
> I don't take it personal, I see you for what you are...an extremist hater with no care about understanding anything but some bullshit fearmongering.
> 
> But please, continue, because people like you do nothing but earn the disgust of anyone rational.



Now Ravi,

*This is what I don't understand. * Perhaps you could explain it to me.  Since your sooo up on illegal alien issues.
How will we pay for the illegal aliens Free Medical if we take our Honkey arses back to Europe?


----------



## random3434

Don't you just love playing around with photoshop?


----------



## tigerbob

Echo Zulu said:


> Leprosy!
> 
> My Gosh I have Leprosy!
> 
> There goes my ear again, into my beer again!
> 
> 
> Leprosy!
> 
> My Gosh I have Leprosy!
> 
> 
> There goes my eye again, into my pie again!
> 
> 
> Leprosy!
> 
> My Gosh I have Leprosy!
> 
> 
> 
> There goes my tooth again, into my stew again!


----------



## Sovereignty

Sovereignty said:


> [/url]



I just wanted to say, these 3 threads were put by the administrators in to one thread.  

I posted them as separate threads for discussion.  As it worked out this thread reached a lot of readers eyes.  So, I guess it worked out for the best.

Thanks, 

Sov


----------



## Ravi

Sovereignty said:


> I just wanted to say, these 3 threads were put by the administrators in to one thread.
> 
> I posted them as separate threads for discussion.  As it worked out this thread reached a lot of readers eyes.  So, I guess it worked out for the best.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Sov


DAMMIT!!! I meant that as a neg rep. Somebody fix it for me, puhlease!


----------



## Sovereignty

Ravi said:


> DAMMIT!!! I meant that as a neg rep. Somebody fix it for me, puhlease!



Don't worry Ravi one of your *Anit-American* friends will come to your rescue.


----------



## Againsheila

Ravi said:


> DAMMIT!!! I meant that as a neg rep. Somebody fix it for me, puhlease!





Sovereignty said:


> I just wanted to say, these 3 threads were put by the administrators in to one thread.
> 
> I posted them as separate threads for discussion.  As it worked out this thread reached a lot of readers eyes.  So, I guess it worked out for the best.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Sov



I'm confused, what is it sovereignty said that you object to?


----------



## Grismonda

Sovereignty said:


> Don't worry Ravi one of your *Anit-American* friends will come to your rescue.



Guess who?  _Anit_ Americans like Ravi wonderful?


----------



## Ravi

Grismonda said:


> Guess who?  _Anit_ Americans like Ravi wonderful?


I have a t-shirt that says, "Proud Anit-American."


----------



## del

Ravi said:


> I have a t-shirt that says, "Proud Anit-American."



yo es un hombre sincero.


----------

