# JFK Another Angle



## KokomoJojo (Oct 5, 2013)

they used to be large enough a person could easily fit in them


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## Godboy (Oct 5, 2013)

No


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 5, 2013)

the angles match


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## Godboy (Oct 5, 2013)

KokomoJojo said:


> the angles match



If they did, we wouldn't be debating it right now.


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## LA RAM FAN (Oct 5, 2013)

KokomoJojo said:


> they used to be large enough a person could easily fit in them



for a long time I thought it might be from the sewer drain there but it was really the the secret service driver Bill Greer.He had CIA connections.Seven eleven has exposed him on this thread here.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/consp...assination-who-s-who-on-the-grassy-knoll.html


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 5, 2013)

9/11 inside job said:


> for a long time I thought it might be from the sewer drain there but it was really the the secret service driver Bill Greer.He had CIA connections.Seven eleven has exposed him on this thread here.



Oh the greer with a pistol over the shoulder?   

My eyes see glare off the doods head sitting beside greer as they are bouncing around and compared to the rest of the glare from others and the car it does not seem out of order to me, then a nasty blur frame but that is afterward.  We gotta keep in mind that those were the days where the fad was slicked down greasy hair so I am not surprised to see the sun glinting off them.



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If you all told me greer purposely veered left a bit to give the guy a cleaner shot, you might possibly convince me on that one since I am not sure precisely when he did that.

the pistol over the shoulder I cant buy into from the videos I have checked out.



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witnesses and the NM said said the car came almost to a complete stop for a couple seconds after the shot and I expect that is why the precisely timed blur frames that look like sprocket snag, wouldnt want to take any heat for slowing to a near stop when they should have been a steppin.

Otherwise yeh good call, the angle that his head flies back matches perfectly from what I can see.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 5, 2013)

Godboy said:


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are we debating it now?


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## Godboy (Oct 6, 2013)

KokomoJojo said:


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Are you NOT debating it?


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 6, 2013)

Godboy said:


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I have no reason to debate myself.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 6, 2013)

9/11 inside job said:


> for a long time I thought it might be from the sewer drain there but it was really the the secret service driver Bill Greer.He had CIA connections.Seven eleven has exposed him on this thread here.
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> http://www.usmessageboard.com/consp...assination-who-s-who-on-the-grassy-knoll.html




ok took a look around in there and I am not sure what I should be looking at that shows greer to be the shooter.

Never have been much for what witnesses say and I may be missing something but I dont see greer as a shooter.

One thing to keep in mind is that connally and his wife and the guy immediately beside greer would have had substantial muzzle blast from a shot powerful enough to take the side of someones head apart like that 





 and I see none of those things that I would expect to see if that were the case.  Since we can see his brains being vaporized I would expect we would see something.

Moor thought the SS were shooting back, but did she see what she thought was a gun or my impression that she heard more shots fired and seen greer turn and just conjectured that he was shooting back.  If she heard them it is also reasonable to presume they were not silenced as if that really matters with high speed projectiles anyway.

If someone were shooting out of the sewer, to her, I expect she may have had a difficult time distinguishing the difference since the car would have been almost perfectly in line between her and the sewer when the shots were fired possibly giving her the impression they came from the car.  

So if not greer then that would lend even more credence to a shooter in the sewer.


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## Rockland (Oct 7, 2013)

9/11 inside job said:


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It figures you'd believe everything your best bud IQ of 7 says.  Neither one of you is playing with a full dick.

What you and 7 (a.k.a. Cheech and Chong) are calling the reflection of sunlight off the barrel of a gun is the top of the head of Greer's front seat passenger.  Even in this crappy gif, I can plainly see his entire head in side profile, the black suit jacket he was wearing, and the white collar of his shirt.  You two escapees will continue to see only what you *want* to see, though.

911 doses of psych meds missed responds with his usual "someone farted in here" in 5...4...3...


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## LA RAM FAN (Oct 7, 2013)

KokomoJojo said:


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the thing that proves beyond a doubt Greer fired the fatal head shot that the Greer apologists cant get around and ignore and what cinched it for me that Greer fired the fatal head shot,is that two of the main doctors who examined him determined  that the wound came from a HANDGUN fired at CLOSE RANGE,and there are a few supprssed witness testimonys that he had posted of a few saying they saw a secret service guy firing a gun.

Then there is the testimony of one of the ambulance crew at parkland as well who said when the limo got there,he smelled gunpowder coming from inside the limo.that smell wouldnt be there inside the limo from just gunsmoke floating around in the air that day in dealy plaza.

also for like 30 years,researchers mistakenly believed that the zapruder film was the smoking gun to the case when actually its not in the fact many photography experts have said that the film has been altered.You can tell it has been because in the  muchmoor and nix films taken that day,you can see the driver turning around raising his arm pointing it towards the back at kennedy where you dont see that in the zapruder film.

the greer apologists never have an answer for why if he did not do it,why does he turn around and raise his arm pointing it at him. 

there were also witnesses some being police officers,who said they saw the limo come to a COMPLETE stop which you dont see in the zapruder film. they altered the film so you dont see greer with the gun and so the car doesnt come to a complete stop so that people wouldnt figure out it was Greer.

there is a book that explains all this and talks about it all called the great zapruder film hoax.great book.


Greer obviously shot him in the head,and I would say the rifleman behind the picket fence witnesses told independent investigaters they saw but was suppressed and ignored by the  the warren commission never being mentioned,that he fired the shot in the throut that the dallas doctors said was an entrance wound which all the early reports going out that day in the news reported the doctors calling it as such.

there might have been a shooter in the sewer drainage system as well.the bullet in the windshield that police officers and medical personal saw but was removed later,a couple of police officers who examined it before it was removed,said they saw a bullet hole in the windshield and that it was an entrance wound coming from the FRONT so im thinking there might have been a shooter in the sewer who fired THAT shot in the windshield.


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## 7forever (Oct 7, 2013)

9/11 inside job said:


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*"Handgun used"*

2.* Dr. Charles Wilbur*: Interpretation of the fatal head wound by *several attending surgeons suggested a high velocity handgun bullet fired at close range*, 

3. Iona Antonov, On the Trail of the Presidents Killers: part 2, New Times, 1977, pp.26-30: New York Daily News quoted friends of John Rosselli to the effect that* Oswald a decoy while others ambushed Kennedy from closer range*.

5. Parkland Dr. McClelland's testimony as reproduced in Hearings volume 6, p.38: "*Dr. McClelland judged that the wound in the President's skull could be expected'from a very high velocity missile*with a heavy calibre bullet, *such as a .45 pistol fired at close range*' This would particularly apply to the skull 'where there was a sudden change in density from the brain to the skull cavity, as it entered. As it left the body, it would still have a great deal of force behind it and would blow up a large segment of tissue as it exited.'"

6. A.J. Millican: It sounded like a .45 automatic, or a high-powered rifle. <19WCH486>

7. *S.M. Holland*: It would be *like youre firing a .38 pistol *right beside a shotgun, or a .45 right beside a shotgun.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 7, 2013)

7forever said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
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> > the thing that proves beyond a doubt Greer fired the fatal head shot that the Greer apologists cant get around and ignore and what cinched it for me that Greer fired the fatal head shot,*is that two of the main doctors who examined him determined  that the wound came from a HANDGUN fired at CLOSE RANGE*,and there are a few supprssed witness testimonys that he had posted of a few saying they saw a secret service guy firing a gun.
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ok I have  lots of problems with this however.

first a 45 sounds nothing like a rifle and its not high velocity in fact they can be high[er] velocity but are typically subsonic.

Now a rifle and even a shotgun is supersonic.  shotgun starting at mach 1 and rifles up to mach 4 roughly.

Now my read on this is that the doctors are making a comparison that eludes to high velocity and larger lead.  To that extent I agree.  I do not see greer shooting but then its a foregone conclusion that all these films have been tampered with by the government.

you still have the issue of muzzle blast that would have been felt by everyone in the car in greer did the deed including jackie.

while its possible it could have come down that way its just not the way its usually done. Military style assassinations are usually 6 point triangulation for important targets and with the number of shots fired it sort of fits they may have had a similar arrangement.

One thing that is interesting is that everyone in the car is flying forward as if they stepped pretty hard on the brakes except kennedy who is flying backwards.

these witnesses did they name who they saw firing and which direction were they firing?  

If the car slowed way down and there was someone in the sewer, there would have been little gun movement to follow the the target making that a prime spot for the kill shot if others failed.  

People have said greer reached around but I have watched that ad noxiously and cannot see it.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 8, 2013)

here is a view of the sewer reference to the knoll





if the shooter was up on the knoll and there may have been someone up there too, they would have had to hit kennedy while jackie was nearly in line and up to 90 degrees from the direction of travel.

They would have had large barrel swing to track the target movement.

now someone in the sewer on the other hand would have a super easy nearly straight on shot with very little tracking correction needed and would have to be off by a mile to hit jackie. 

The street would smell like gun powder and anyone on the left side would make it sound (somewhat) like it came from the [general] direction of the knoll.
That and like


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## Politico (Oct 8, 2013)

KokomoJojo said:


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No.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 9, 2013)

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then why are you in this thread


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## Politico (Oct 9, 2013)

Because he asked for an answer derp...


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 9, 2013)

Politico said:


> Because he asked for an answer derp...




ok then dont let me hold ya up


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## LA RAM FAN (Oct 10, 2013)

7forever said:


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 18, 2013)

9/11 inside job said:


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I looked at that clip again, frame by frame, and I cannot see anything that remotely resembles anything that could be thought to be the driver wasting kennedy.

Just before the shot, the guy beside greer puts his hands up to his face then back down, greers left hand either slides around the steering wheel to the right or he turned the wheel a 1/4 turn to the right, his left hand never left the wheel, his right hand is not visible, kennedy flies backward everyone else forward, apparently he hit the brakes, connallys wife puts her hand over him and drags him lower, greer and passenger duck forward and the car accelerates.

Did I leave anything pertinent out?

Otherwise you will need to post whatever you think you guys are seeing that makes you think greer shot him because I cant find any evidence of it.

well thats what doctors are used to seeing, pistol wounds.

He does not say it was a pistol he said "looks like".

If you had someone in the sewer that would explain the smell of powder in the street and moor thinking the shot came from the car since the car would have been almost between her and the shooter and the angle perfectly matches the direction of body movement.


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## 7forever (Oct 19, 2013)

KokomoJojo said:


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You have to be disinfo. Both of Greer's hands were off the wheel, during which he transferred the gun. *You've been aware of these facts for years*.

Zapruder Frames - Costella Combined Edit

*Greer passes the gun starting at frame 242 with both his hands off the wheel at frame 241. The last frame you see the fitted gun is 278 and then the film pans upward with zero evidence his left hand ever returned to the wheel*. We know it didn't because his left arm crosses his right shoulder in the nix and muchmore films. 

*Frame 241 shows both hands off the wheel just before he passes gun.*.







*Greer passes gun and his left hand goes missing because they panned upward during the frames which Greer transferred the gun from the lower position to near his shoulder before he turned the second time to shoot jfk*. You can see the grip, barrel, and muzzle briefly while it fits to his left hand.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 19, 2013)

7forever said:


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I dont know where you got that clip from but they did some piss poor cgi work if you failed to notice.

the one I posted claims to be the original version shown on tv and it does not have mysterious black shadows like yours does.






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## LA RAM FAN (Oct 19, 2013)

KokomoJojo said:


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stick to the  9/11 subject. I see you have done very little research into this at all because all serious researchers know for a fact that the zapruder film has been altered.proof of that is in the muchmoore and nix films you see Greer turning around raising his left arm pointing it at kennedy CLEARLY taking his hand off the wheel.

yeah he didnt waste him thats why he turns around and points his arm at him and raises it. you are also ignoring what he has posted that two of the main doctors that examined him said his head wound came from a HANDGUN fired at CLOSE RANGE. your doing what the lone nut theorists do that defend the lies of the warren commission that oswald was the lone asssassin,ignoring what the dallas doctors said,ignoring that testimony they gave and ignoring that he turned around and raised his arm and pointed it at jfk. which the zapruder film altered but the muchmoore and nix films show did happen.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 19, 2013)

9/11 inside job said:


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I dint say the zap film was not altered.

Can you tell the difference between a wound was made by a handgun or a rifle?  

If so how?

All I see is the glare off the passengers head.

Where do you think you see a gun?


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## LA RAM FAN (Oct 19, 2013)

KokomoJojo said:


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youir missing the point of WHY the zapruder film was altered,so they could eliminate the gun.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 19, 2013)

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I cant draw that conclusion, the ballistics does not support it.


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## LA RAM FAN (Oct 19, 2013)

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except its not ME saying it,I didnt come up with that conclusion,PHOTOGRAPHY experts came up with the conclusion that the zapruder film was altered.you need to read the book THE GREAT ZAPRUDER FILM HOAX. again,your doing the same thing lone nut theorists do,ignore what the dallas doctors do therefore im wasting my time with you on this.you going to do what the trolls do who ignore facts that oswald was innocent and ignore the dallas doctors like they do,then agaim,stick to 9/11,a discussion your much better at. 

read that book then get back to me,till then,this discussion between us is over.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 19, 2013)

9/11 inside job said:


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I can see that it was altered but not as much as the one that 7 is using.

Its not hard to alter a film, pain in the ass in those days yes, hard not.

Hardly, I presented a different set of facts, and my set of facts the ballistics just happen to match.

You want to run with 7 on this fine, however then you implicate Jackie as an accessory to the murder of her own husband along with connally, his wife, the front seat passenger and anyone else who would have had seen or felt it.  Gun powder is a chemical expansion of gases and even silenced you still get the smell and easily detectable air blast.  

You cant settle for blobs in a video with complete disregard for the forensics.


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## 7forever (Oct 19, 2013)

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Hill saw Greer's gun and* Bertha smelled gunpowder on the Governor and President*. No surprise there, since *the gun was fired right over Connally's head*.

insidethearrb

Here is some collaborating information (on the SS Agent Greer being the source of the final headshot with his nickle plated revolver) 
*
Douglas P. Horne*, Chief Analyst for Military Records, Assassination Records Review Board (Pub 2010) details in volume five of this incredibly *detailed* and well-documented five volume set, *how a "prominent researcher" that he knows who requested confidentiality on his identity, describes video taping an interview (shortly before the witness died*) with an unnamed black steward on Air Force One, who related an incident on the Air Force One flight back to Washington after the assassination, *during which Secret Service Agent Clint Hill "*was changing his shirt (which was covered with the President's blood) and *in a moment of complete honesty*, while being assisted by the steward with his change of wardrobe, *confided to the steward that when he jumped onto the back of the limousine, 'the driver had his gun out and it was pointed right at my face'*." 

Horne continues, "As the interview was related to me, *Clint Hill *was quite shaken by what he saw, for the implications were obvious. Hill's *descriptions* of the sound of the head shot(s), in both his written statement and in his Warren Commission testimony, *were consistently that it resembled the sound a revolver makes when it is fired into a hard object*." 

Horne continues, "*The discharging of a firearm inside the limousine could also explain why the triage nurse at Parkland hospital, Bertha Lozano, smelled 'smoke' (i.e. gunpowder) when Kennedy and Connelly were rushed past her on gurneys to the trauma stations for treatment*." "The videotaped interview of *the steward also provides independent corroboration for Hugh Betzner's account in his Sheriff's Department affidavit of November 22, 1963, that he saw a nickel (plated) revolver in someones hand inside the limousine *during the assassination, and is consistent with *Jean Hill's account in her affidavit of November 22, 1963 that some men in plain clothes were 'shooting back' (at the assassins*)." "

One other Chrenshaw quote from High Treason 2 (page 114) is worth of mention here:
'The Secret Service men were there when we started to work on Mr. Kennedy (at Parkland Hospital). Clint Hill had a gun out and cocked and we were afraid he was going to shoot one of us. And Doris Nelson went around saying, 'he's okay, he's okay, he's okay,' and got him finally out of the room. It was sheer bedlam.

This makes sense to me only when I consider the revelation made by *Clint Hill *to the Air Force One steward. Consider his state of mind in Trauma Room One, given what Hill confided to the steward. He had just *seen (and heard) the driver of the President's limousine plug the President, the man they were all sworn to protect, with a coup de grace shot to the head*, and from that moment onward (until the end of his career when he was granted early retirement in 1975), his world was turned upside down. He was surrounded by known traitors: William Greer, Roy Kellerman, Floyd Boring, Emory Roberts -- and doubtless others, unknown to him. He didn't know whom to trust, and besides being infused with anger and overcome by sorrow, he might well even have been afraid for his own life, for having heard Greer fire his revolver, and seen it in his hand immediately after the head explosion, he was clearly, 'the man who knew too much'. 

Hill had enough intestinal fortitude to tell Arlen Specter about Floyd Boring's security stripping role under oath, and enough common sense to suddenly forget Boring's name when he was required to prepare a written statement about the matter later for Secret Service Chief James J. Rowley. The poor man suffered from deep depression and alcoholism for years, and his agony was still apparent, and right on the surface, in 1975 when he was interviewed for the television news magazine 60 Minutes by Mike Wallace. (During that interview, I believe Hill was as upset by what he could *not talk about, as he was by what he did talk about. The 'survivor's guilt' that he exhibited during the poignant interview may really have related more to his failure to blow the whistle on the 'dirty' Secret Service agents involved in the assassination, than to his failure to get to the limousine in time to protect the President."

Horne's five volumes, large format paperback set is incredibly inclusive and well documented and is available on both amazon.com and amazon.ca. I strongly recommend it.*


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 19, 2013)

so how does a bullet fired from forward left make the head and body fly backward left?


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## jon_berzerk (Oct 19, 2013)

KokomoJojo said:


> they used to be large enough a person could easily fit in them



a shot from the gutter would not cause the blowby pattern in the motion photo

the blood spray clearly starts by moving from head towards front seat

then is caught by the wind

and blown back again


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 19, 2013)

jon_berzerk said:


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well thats not exactly the way it works.







first kennedy was shot from the front be it the sewer (the ballistics match) or up past that sign on the hill (to close to argue)

The problem with all these so called investigations they always surround proving the government versions right or wrong rather then simply doing good forensic investigation work and coming up with correct answers to simple problems.

So they always are trying to pound round pegs into square holes, the result is you get shit for your tax dollars.

as you can see what you think would have happened to the brain matter is not correct and a frontal shot would definitely blow it to the front seat.

However I await anyone who can show a front left angle produces left back reaction, not only in the head but the whole body.


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## 7forever (Oct 20, 2013)

KokomoJojo said:


> so how does a bullet fired from forward left make the head and body fly backward left?



He went straight back, bounced off the seat, then slumped to *the left, the side he was leaning before the shot*. The angle between Greer and jfk was nil.


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## jon_berzerk (Oct 20, 2013)

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*well thats not exactly the way it works.*

well that is exactly the way it worked


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## jon_berzerk (Oct 20, 2013)

7forever said:


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*He went straight back*

actually forward then back

at the same time you can see  Connallys

reaction to being hit by the same bullet


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## 7forever (Oct 20, 2013)

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*Notice that jfk's nose never moves but his head appears to move forward because of the rear starting to gape open*.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 20, 2013)

7forever said:


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his position prior to being thrown to the left and back is irrelevant.

so you post one that he is thrown backward and to his left then you post another where he does not move at all.

thats a really quick way to get people to conclude that you have a few screws missing and to become the central focus of the argument.


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## 7forever (Oct 20, 2013)

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He wasn't thrown to his left. He slumped in that direction naturally, after Greer shot him in the forehead. *His torso was leaning left before the shot*.


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## rightwinger (Oct 20, 2013)

Damn

In super slow motion....it looks like Jackie did it


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## Rockland (Oct 20, 2013)

What 7 lines of cocaine is calling Greer's gun is the top of the head of Greer's passenger.  Any fool with even one working eye can see that.

Greer turned around after he heard the first shot, which went through JFK's throat.  Wouldn't *you* turn around in the direction of a gunshot?  It's a natural reaction.  "Holy crap!  Is someone shooting at us?"  Followed by, "Did the president just get shot?"  

Then, JFK got shot again.  This time, in the head, *from behind*.  What we're seeing here is a gaping *exit wound*.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 20, 2013)

Rockland said:


> What 7 lines of cocaine is calling Greer's gun is the top of the head of Greer's passenger.  Any fool with even one working eye can see that.
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> Greer turned around after he heard the first shot, which went through JFK's throat.  Wouldn't *you* turn around in the direction of a gunshot?  It's a natural reaction.  "Holy crap!  Is someone shooting at us?"  Followed by, "Did the president just get shot?"
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> Then, JFK got shot again.  This time, in the head, *from behind*.  What we're seeing here is a gaping *exit wound*.




what if its 55gr hp at 4000?

then what would you see?

as I said high level military assassinations are 6 man triangular


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## rightwinger (Oct 20, 2013)

Did anyone check to see if Jackie had a gun after the shooting?

I smell coverup


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 20, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Did anyone check to see if Jackie had a gun after the shooting?
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> I smell coverup



what if its 55gr hp at 4000?

then what would you see?


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## Rockland (Oct 20, 2013)

7forever said:


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You didn't blur the image enough.  I can still tell that it's the passenger's head.  Make a few more kinescopes and then get back to us.


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## 7forever (Oct 20, 2013)

Rockland said:


> What 7 lines of cocaine is calling Greer's gun is the top of the head of Greer's passenger. *Any fool with even one working eye can see that*.



Greer's left hand/arm motioning back toward jfk were edited out of Zapruder, but left in both other films. *The fake reflection is a moot point*, even if it had been added to the three other recordings. *This is Nix film which solved this case (three years ago)* and proved the simple fact that the driver really did shoot jfk. *Any fool with even one working eye can see Greer's left arm extending back toward jfk in the moments leading up to the headshot*.

*THIS CASE WAS CLOSED THREE YEARS AGO IN SEPTEMBER*.


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## Rockland (Oct 20, 2013)

Keep deleting and re-posting it, 7 turds in your diaper.  It's still the same load of doe snot.


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## 7forever (Oct 20, 2013)

KokomoJojo said:


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*The reflection was proven fake long ago*. It only appears in the Zapruder film. That means *it wasn't added to three other recordings where it must be present had it been real*. 

 -Mary Moorman took her *polaroid* at Zapruder frame 309, and in it *the white blob was not added*.
-The* Muchmore Film *is important and a bonus for proving Greer the real assassin. The capture below is the moment of the headshot and *no fake reflection was added to Roy's head either*.
-And finally,* the all-important Nix Film *provides a double whammy. Not only* is *it *missing the white blob*, but Roy's heads snaps back far enough to where his forehead faces the sky. Apparently they were able to curtail that movement in Zapruder. *His head moves perfectly with the white blob in Zapruder, but they didn't bother adding any fake imagery to these three other recordings*.

*-In Nix, Greer's left arm raises to the level of his right shoulder and retracts after the shot. THAT'S THE SMOKING GUN*.


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## 7forever (Oct 20, 2013)

*I did NOT write this. From another poster/forum, a few years ago*.

Funny thing about conspiracies, and theories, is that often times the other parts of the "plan" are important parts, but made to DISTRACT from* a very simple truth!*

This is how it has always been, and this is the most important aspect of it all. *If you confront people with the "simple" evidence (which is the driver landed fatal blow) people will reject it* having been so used to such a complex conspiracy theory that no one will ever figure out!

It is Genius when you think about it, formulate a massive plan to take out JFK who was a threat to national security of the secret government. But the one thing they were counting on was *the man hiding in plain sight, with the means to finish him directly*. While everyone around the grassy knoll, the buildings, and even people within the car were panicking, they had no idea what was going on, *greer took the final shot*. It was the perfect distraction.

*edit the film that proves it*.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 20, 2013)

7forever said:


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put up the unmodified clip before they made black shadows out of it.


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## 7forever (Oct 20, 2013)

KokomoJojo said:


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*Post 46*. I paid a guy thirty dollars to enhance it, which got rid of some blur and pixelation. Groden narrarates. *ADVANCE TO 1:09*

jfk assassination films-orville nix - Video Dailymotion


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 20, 2013)

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that clip in 46 is not the nix clip unless nix can be in 2 different places at the same time.  It is a completely different angle and it has been destroyed and is useless in the condition it is shown.

There is nothing useful in the actual nix clip either in so far as showing greer did what you claim.

the zap clip you can see the glint of sun through out the car and on everyone elses head as well, it moves with the passenger and disappears at the same rate he ducks behind the windshield.  In other words the more the windshield shadowed it the less glint we see.  

Granted you odnt have to be much of an expert at anything to see there are plenty of missing frames which is tampering with evidence and someone should hang for it.

So do you have the original of that clip?


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## 7forever (Oct 20, 2013)

KokomoJojo said:


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Yes. I posted the link I used over three years ago. Same clip. Same facts, proving Greer was the assassin.


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## 7forever (Oct 20, 2013)

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The fake reflection was not added to three of four recordings. You predictably ignore that. Kellerman's head moves back further in the nix film, another fact that proves Zapruder alteration. The first gif in 46 is the original from Groden's video. *The second was enhanced and zoomed a bit*.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 20, 2013)

7forever said:


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then its useless, there is a point where blur and pixelation makes a clip useless, that clip is useless.

it has opaque nondescript blobs, you wasted your money.


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## 7forever (Oct 20, 2013)

KokomoJojo said:


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Okay. That's your thing, not mine. *The film clearly shows Greer's left arm pushing back toward jfk*, which also happens in Muchmore. That's an expected consistency of evidence that is rendered throughout this case.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 20, 2013)

7forever said:


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What other other ones?  You think the sun moves around to each person with a camera gets the sale glare?

it would have had to been someone else standing beside zap to compare glare, not someone on the opposite side of the car.


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## 7forever (Oct 20, 2013)

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It's the same person with his head straight up. *It has to be there *but isn't because it wasn't added.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 20, 2013)

7forever said:


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it "clearly" shows nothing but blobs, for shit sake you cant even fill it, its so bad.  Get the original.  Its not nix either whos is it?


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 20, 2013)

7forever said:


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and the zap film would need to corroborate at least an elbow which is absent.  like I said I do not see his left hand leaving the wheel

once again the angle in the blob clip that you are using is not the same angle as the nix clip.  It is from someone else standing further down the road from mix


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## 7forever (Oct 20, 2013)

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It is the original and contradicts Zapruder in the most important way. Groden or someone zoomed on the limo, providing the irrefutable proof of Zapruder alteration.


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## 7forever (Oct 20, 2013)

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His elbow is seen in some clips at 313. It was edited out by adding those reflections that made it look exactly like his arm pushed back, but technically did not. That's why nix and muchmore solve this case, so clearly.


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## Rat in the Hat (Oct 20, 2013)

7forever said:


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*
ROBERT PREY* told me to tell you...

*THAT'S BALONEY!!*


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## 7forever (Oct 20, 2013)

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His elbow forms by the door and the reflection extends in sync with the headshot.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 20, 2013)

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you gotta be shittin me, that is a fucking mock up,  I want the original to that blob clip.  its not nix. whos is it?

What you are seeing that you think is his elbow is the sprocket jump that is blurring the image at the same time the passengers head is tipping down and slightly toward the center of the car as he is ducking



​ 

the angle changes and no more sun glint.


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## 7forever (Oct 20, 2013)

KokomoJojo said:


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His left arm is fist up and elbow down in 318 and his elbow forms by the door in 313. I don't care what you want or think. The nix film solved this case three years ago. If you want better evidence, then start searching.


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## Rockland (Oct 20, 2013)

7forever said:


> It is the original and contradicts Zapruder in the most important way. Groden or someone zoomed on the limo, providing the irrefutable proof of Zapruder alteration.



I do not think that word, "irrefutable", means what you think it means.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 20, 2013)

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its not nix, you cant see that its an entirely different angle?  and no black blobs prove nothing.  a blck blob can easily be drawn in.  Hell now days its easier to simply make it look real L>OL


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## 7forever (Oct 20, 2013)

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You aren't making any sense. The gun was witnessed by Betzner. There was a gun in Greer's hand and Hickey pulled out a rifle in the follow-up.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 20, 2013)

7forever said:


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that may very well be true, however you are not going to prove it in any of the clips provided.

and btw if you realize that affidavit is shit.  I wont go so far as to say greer could not have done it, since shooting living things is not purely scientific, however the ballistics still makes the sewer and the knoll behind the sign the location for the head and body to move the way it did.


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## 7forever (Oct 20, 2013)

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*The smell of Greer's shot was in the air*. According to Gary Mack the wind was blowing back east at 15 mph. That explains the Senators honest account. Not to mention the secret service shooting back. I wonder what agent could have been shooting back in the direction of jfk?

Look under 'Beats Fists Against Car'. "*The third shot he heard might have been a Secret Service man returning the fire", he said*. "The Senator was two or three cars behind Jfk's, with LBJ. *Look above 'Could Smell Gunpowder'*; *He smelled gunpowder all the way to Parkland Hospital*.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 20, 2013)

as I already said, if there was a shooter in the sewer you bet you would smell gp on the street.


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## 7forever (Oct 20, 2013)

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You are speaking for yourself, certainly not this case. That's your opinion. The films are not consistent in one crucial factor. *Was Greer's left arm moving back or not? It was not, in Zapruder, but did so clearly enough in both other films*. Another fact you must ignore, is* Greer's hands *being off the wheel in Zapruder before the shot.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 20, 2013)

7forever said:


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yeh and his arm looked like an arm in zap and not visible in nix and who ever made the other clip it there is simply a blob of meaningless indistinguishable black pixels that you are calling an arm.

in zap you can see that what you are calling his elbow is his shoulder and it rotates with him as he turns.

if he fired a revolver with enough power to do what we saw happen to kennedys head the guy beside him would be deaf in his left ear.  Far too many things make no sense and would not reasonably fit together with greer as the shooter.

if that settles it for you so be it.  It does not for me.


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## 7forever (Oct 20, 2013)

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It's called obfuscation. That's all you're doing. His left arm is visibly moving in nix and muchmore, but is not, in Zapruder during the shooting sequence. You can only play dumb when faced with facts that are not debatable such as everything I've posted about jfk and 911. *Greer's shot fits together with all the  headshot evidence, real or fake, especially in regards to the wound path, over the right eye out the right rear*.


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## 7forever (Oct 20, 2013)

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*Connally said he saw the fatal shot and quickly corrected himself but his reaction when looking at Greer proves he slipped up*. Watch him hit the floor in horror once he realized Greer shot JFK. *The Governor, logically starting turning toward the driver because he was braking before he shot the President*.

Obviously, at least the major wound that I took in the shoulder through the chest couldn't have been anything but the second shot. Obviously, it couldn't have been the third, because* when the third shot was fired I* was in a reclining position, and heard it, *saw it *and the effects of it, *rather--I didn't see it,* I saw the effects of it--so it obviously could not have been the third, and couldn't have been the first, in my judgment.






So I merely doubled up, and then turned to my right again and began to--I just sat there, and Mrs. Connally pulled me over to her lap. She was sitting, of course, on the jump seat, so I reclined with my head in her lap, conscious all the time, and with my eyes open; and then, of course, *the third shot sounded, and I heard the shot very clearly. I heard it hit him*. I heard the shot hit something, and I assumed again--it never entered my mind that it ever hit anybody but the President. *I heard it hit. It was a very loud noise, just that audible, very clear*.

*GREER FIRED RIGHT OVER CONNALLY'S HEAD and when he realized Greer fired it, he hit the floor, terrified*. WATCH THE GOVERNOR.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 21, 2013)

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WTG!

you just proved that greer did not do it LOL


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## 7forever (Oct 21, 2013)

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*Connally saw Greer shoot jfk*. That's exactly what it proves in no uncertain way. He saw the shot, meaning the headshot.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 21, 2013)

7forever said:


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no, it proves greer did not in no uncertain way.  lol


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## 7forever (Oct 21, 2013)

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You won't explain how, though. He was looking right at Greer. He saw the fatal headshot. Greer fired it....case closed over three years ago.


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## LA RAM FAN (Oct 21, 2013)

7forever said:


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*

Never gets old watching you take him to school.

Yeah Hill was pretty much the only agent in that detail who wasnt in on it it appears.*


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## LA RAM FAN (Oct 21, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Did anyone check to see if Jackie had a gun after the shooting?
> 
> I smell coverup



agent rightwingers and rat in the asses handlers are getting scared the lies of the warren commission are being exposed by seven here sening them here to troll the boards.these paid trolls of course defend the lies of the warren commission that oswald did it and was the lone assassin.


Damn

In super slow motion....it looks like Jackie did it 
__________________
.

true enough,but we know it wasnt jackie because unlike with Greer,you dont have a few witnesses there like Jean Hill and Clint Hill saying they saw Jackie do it so Jackie is in the clear.


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## LA RAM FAN (Oct 21, 2013)

7forever said:


> *I did NOT write this. From another poster/forum, a few years ago*.
> 
> Funny thing about conspiracies, and theories, is that often times the other parts of the "plan" are important parts, but made to DISTRACT from* a very simple truth!*
> 
> ...



He nailed it.


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## LA RAM FAN (Oct 21, 2013)

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seems like no matter how many times you spell it out to these paid shills dummies style they cant comprehend that.


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## LA RAM FAN (Oct 21, 2013)

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again,seems like no matter how many times you explain that fact to him dummies style,he acts like you never posted that.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 21, 2013)

9/11 inside job said:


> *The reflection was proven fake long ago*. It only appears in the Zapruder film. That means *it wasn't added to three other recordings where it must be present had it been real*.
> 
> 
> -Mary Moorman took her *polaroid* at Zapruder frame 309, and in it *the white blob was not added*.
> ...



So you disregard the white blob as fake and accept the black blob as real.   The black blob wasnt added to the Zap film either.

That strike me as being pretty fucked up.













so it appears to me that the passenger said something on a radio maybe, his hand goes up then after his hand goes down you get the head shot.

greers left hand also appears to go down and to right side of the steering wheel as if to turn the wheel to the right or hang on to it while he was twisting around to look backwards, (parents do that all the time when chewing naughty kids asses out in the back seat), his left shoulder comes into view, then after the head shot back up and left.  He would have had to shoot through connally from where his hand appears to be. 

Though I can find more fault than right with both of these clips.

What they did with the nix version is grossly painted it in or did a high contrast/chroma number on it and that totally destroys it for any kind of forensics work.

It was never my intention to argue your thread in this one but here we are and there you have it.​


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## 7forever (Oct 22, 2013)

What black blob are talking about? The film was enchanced and the movements are the same. It looks different in color but no alterations were made. His left extends over and the same thing occurs in Muchmore, or more directly his arm retracts in it, after the shot.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 22, 2013)

7forever said:


> *What black blob are talking about?* The film was enchanced and the movements are the same. It looks different in color but no alterations were made. His left extends over and the same thing occurs in Muchmore, or more directly his arm retracts in it, after the shot.




the invisible ones you dont see.

the movements cannot be confirmed in the zap film.


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## 7forever (Oct 22, 2013)

KokomoJojo said:


> 7forever said:
> 
> 
> > *What black blob are talking about?* The film was enchanced and the movements are the same. It looks different in color but no alterations were made. His left extends over and the same thing occurs in Muchmore, or more directly his arm retracts in it, after the shot.
> ...



You don't make any sense at all. Kellerman raised and immediately dropped his hand because he signaled Greer was to shoot back. No radio or other old worn out lies will work any longer.


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## 7forever (Oct 22, 2013)

KokomoJojo said:


> 7forever said:
> 
> 
> > *What black blob are talking about?* The film was enchanced and the movements are the same. It looks different in color but no alterations were made. His left extends over and the same thing occurs in Muchmore, or more directly his arm retracts in it, after the shot.
> ...



Exactly. *Greer's left arm does not motion back to jfk in Zap, but does so in both nix and muchmore*.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 22, 2013)

7forever said:


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wrong, modified blobs (enhanced video) have no probative value.


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## 7forever (Oct 22, 2013)

9/11 inside job said:


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*You, I, Koko and everyone see Greer's left arm push back in nix and much*, but NOT Zap. This case was closed three years ago.


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## LA RAM FAN (Oct 22, 2013)

7forever said:


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exactly.amazing how people only see what they want to see isnt it?


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## LA RAM FAN (Oct 22, 2013)

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## LA RAM FAN (Oct 22, 2013)

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stands up and gives standing ovation. could not have said it better myself.


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## LA RAM FAN (Oct 22, 2013)

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tthats why Connolly turned to the right because he saw greer shooting him and was getting away from the line of fire.


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## LA RAM FAN (Oct 22, 2013)

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He seems to have reading comprehension problems.I mean isnt that like the 100th time we have explained that to him?


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 22, 2013)

9/11 inside job said:


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I do not see a left arm, I see a painted in black blob.  When you can find me a version with a left arm let me know I will review it.  Until then the version you posted has no probative value.   In other words its trash.


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## LA RAM FAN (Oct 22, 2013)

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yep,yep and yep.


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## LA RAM FAN (Oct 22, 2013)

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took him to school as always handing his ass to him on a platter. NUFF SAID.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 22, 2013)

9/11 inside job said:


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whats the case number?

connallys own words fucked the greer theory.


all I see in YOUR nix version is *painted graphics** in the form of black blobs,* not an arm.

post something lit up in the light you know stuff people can SEE not that shadow shit.








​ 

What is so hard for you people to understand about get the fucking original not some fucked up back yard painted in version and then we talk.  Otherwise you are wasting everyones time with bullshit.


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## Rat in the Hat (Oct 22, 2013)

I hvae much big konsern of blob bullet angle. I will make much thought to figger out new angling of blobby bullet.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 22, 2013)

7forever said:


> What black blob are talking about? The film was enchanced and the movements are the same. It looks different in color but no alterations were made. His left extends over and the same thing occurs in Muchmore, or more directly his arm retracts in it, after the shot.




no they are not the same.  I see no arm, no head, no shoulders, just a fucking black blob.  the clip is worthless.

irrefutable proof greer did it.






treust me its greer behind that black blob!  LOL


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## Rockland (Oct 22, 2013)

7-watt bulb's black blobs:  The saga continues!


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 22, 2013)

well I dont care who ya are ya cant on one hand say they edited it out and its on the other tapes, then come in with the other tapes and they are so badly modified you cant even see greer at all, (because he is drawn over with black pen), and claim it was greer.  Even in a kangaroo court in cross ya ask greer or anyone else if they can identify the driver in the video as greer the answer is NO, NO and NO!  Despite the fact I have a different assessment it would be easier for me to buy into the oswald version, well maybe not.


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## 7forever (Oct 22, 2013)

KokomoJojo said:


> 7forever said:
> 
> 
> > What black blob are talking about? The film was enchanced and the movements are the same. It looks different in color but no alterations were made. His left extends over and the same thing occurs in Muchmore, or more directly his arm retracts in it, after the shot.
> ...



If they aren't the same then post them together. They are the same. The guy just made his arm extending over more clear. You've offered no evidence the movements of Greer or anyone else were altered compared to the raw footage from Groden's video. His shoulder is rotating. You might not be able to see his arm per se but the shoulder rotation is clear.


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## 7forever (Oct 22, 2013)

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Zapruder Frames - Costella Combined Edit

*Greer passes the gun starting at frame 242 with both his hands off the wheel at frame 241. The last frame you see the fitted gun is 278 and then the film pans upward with zero evidence his left hand ever returned to the wheel*. We know it didn't because his left arm crosses his right shoulder in nix proving. 

*Frame 241 shows both hands off the wheel just before he passes gun.*.






*Greer passes gun and his left hand goes missing because they panned upward during the frames which Greer transferred the gun from the lower position to near his shoulder before he turned the second time to shoot jfk*. You can see the grip, barrel, and muzzle briefly while it fits to his left hand.


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## 7forever (Oct 22, 2013)

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*We both see his left arm rotating back toward jfk*. So, your silly denial is rendered moot. The original from the video is less clear than after enhancement. Money well spent, I must say. It leaves no doubt that *Greer's left arm did in fact move back toward the President, exactly as it appeared to in the altered Zapruder film*.


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## 7forever (Oct 22, 2013)

Before killer* Bill Greer shot jfk*, _he braked the limo to an almost complete stop_. Notice the motorcycles and the follow-up car come to complete stops. This is the Orville Nix film.






http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/27th_Issue/59_1.html
1) Houston Chronicle Reporter Bo Byers (rode in White House Press Bus)---twice stated that *the Presidential Limousine "almost came to a stop, a dead stop"; in fact, he has had nightmares about this*. [C-SPAN, 11/20/93, "Journalists Remember The Kennedy Assassination"; see also the 1/94 "Fourth Decade": article by Sheldon Inkol]; 

2) ABC Reporter Bob Clark (rode in the National Press Pool Car)---Reported on the air that *the limousine stopped on Elm Street during the shooting *[WFAA/ ABC, 11/22/63]; 

3) UPI White House Reporter Merriman Smith (rode in the same car as Clark, above*)---"The President's car*, possibly as much as 150 or 200 yards ahead, *seemed to falter briefly*" [UPI story, 11/23/63, as reported in "Four Days", UPI, p. 32]; 

4) DPD motorcycle officer James W. Courson (one of two mid-motorcade motorcycles)--"*The limousine came to a stop and Mrs. Kennedy was on the back. I noticed that as I came around the corner at Elm. Then the Secret Service agent [Clint Hill] helped push her back into the car, and the motorcade took off at a high rate of speed*." ["No More Silence" by Larry Sneed (1998), p. 129]; 

5) DPD motorcycle officer Bobby Joe Dale (one of two rear mid-motorcade motorcycles)---"*After the shots were fired, the whole motorcade came to a stop. I stood and looked through the plaza, noticed there was commotion, and saw people running around his [JFK's] car. It started to move, then it slowed again*; that's when I saw Mrs. Kennedy coming back on the trunk and another guy [Clint Hill] pushing her back into the car." ["No More Silence" by Larry Sneed (1998), p. 134]; 

6) Clemon Earl Johnson*---"You could see it [the limo] speed up and then stop, then speed up, and you could see it stop while they [sic; Clint Hill] threw Mrs. Kennedy back up in the car*. Then they just left out of there like a bat of the eye and were just gone." ["No More Silence" by Larry Sneed (1998), p. 80];


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## 7forever (Oct 22, 2013)

KokomoJojo said:


> 7forever said:
> 
> 
> > *What black blob are talking about?* The film was enchanced and the movements are the same. It looks different in color but no alterations were made. His left extends over and the same thing occurs in Muchmore, or more directly his arm retracts in it, after the shot.
> ...



Liars will always lie. *Many eyewitnesses reported a shot in the limo *because there was one. Miller had a perfect, elevated view of the President. 

Posner vs Harris

(Miller was standing on the triple overpass)

Mr. BELIN - Where did the shots sound like they came from? 
Mr. MILLER - Well, the way it sounded like, it came from the, *I would say from right there in the car*. *Would be to my left, the way I was looking at him toward that incline*.


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## 7forever (Oct 22, 2013)

KokomoJojo said:


> 7forever said:
> 
> 
> > What black blob are talking about? The film was enchanced and the movements are the same. It looks different in color but no alterations were made. His left extends over and the same thing occurs in Muchmore, or more directly his arm retracts in it, after the shot.
> ...


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## 7forever (Oct 22, 2013)

7forever said:


> Before killer* Bill Greer shot jfk*, _he braked the limo to an almost complete stop_. Notice the motorcycles and the follow-up car come to complete stops. This is the Orville Nix film.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Greer pressed on the brakes in the Muchmore film. *The brake light illuminates*. 59 EYEWITNESSES ARE CONFIRMED BY 2 VIDEOS showing Greer brake during his second turn to shoot the already wounded President. 





[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrX8lsb2WTk]The Muchmore film suggests frames were removed from the Zapruder film - YouTube[/ame]


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## 7forever (Oct 22, 2013)

*7. James Altgens*: (photographer, south curb of Elm):&#8220;*The last shot sounded like it came from the left side of the car, if it was close range because, if it were a pistol it would have to be fired at close range for any degree of accuracy*," 7WCH518.

*8. Hugh Betzner, Jr*. (south curb of Elm, nr junction with Houston): &#8220;I cannot remember exactly where I was when I saw the following: *I heard at least two shots fired and I saw what looked like a firecracker going off in the president's car*. My assumption for this was because I saw fragments going up in the air,&#8221; *I also remember seeing what looked like a nickel revolver in someone's hand in the President's car or somewhere immediately around his car *19WCH467

James Altgens was a press photographer and shared some mighty fine testimony that supports Greer's shot from the driver's seat. *The pistol mention has some mighty fine company*.


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## Rat in the Hat (Oct 23, 2013)

Is muchly of bigg konsern for me aboot blobbity blob blobs.

I will has lot of konsern thiinking aboot things this.


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 23, 2013)

7forever said:


> *The pistol mention has some mighty fine company*.




the problem you have is that you need to go through and find out everything that has been faked to really get a good picture.

The JFK Assassination


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 26, 2013)

7forever said:


> Before killer* Bill Greer shot jfk*, _he braked the limo to an almost complete stop_. Notice the motorcycles and the follow-up car come to complete stops. This is the Orville Nix film.
> 
> http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/27th_Issue/59_1.html
> 1) Houston Chronicle Reporter Bo Byers (rode in White House Press Bus)---twice stated that *the Presidential Limousine "almost came to a stop, a dead stop"; in fact, he has had nightmares about this*. [C-SPAN, 11/20/93, "Journalists Remember The Kennedy Assassination"; see also the 1/94 "Fourth Decade": article by Sheldon Inkol];
> ...




most reports say the limo came to a stop after the head shot.


a sewer shot would have sounded like it came from the knoll to many, not all but many of the bystanders.  Of course like any good cover up the most reasonable and logical course is always the most ridiculed.




> I have heard about the possibility of a shot from the storm drain for  many years and even met the daughter of a woman who said she and friends witnessed someone firing from the drain opening. But the mother refused  to be interviewed and I have been unable to substantiate this story. I  have always hesitated to discuss the storm drain because many years ago one  of the earliest and best researchers, Penn Jones Jr., editor of the  Midlothian Mirror, was ridiculed incessantly. Debunkers said he was claiming that  Kennedy was shot "from a sewer." I have myself stood down in the storm  drain which is located a mere six feet from the point of Kennedy&#8217;s fatal head  shot. I could comfortably stand in this drain (I&#8217;m not too tall being 5&#8217;7&#8221 and it would have been an easy pistol shot to a person sitting  upright in an open convertible. Some witnesses said that one of the  shots sounded hollow, had a ringing sound to it. And it could have been  possible to leave the storm drain via a large drain pipe which connected  to an opening behind the wooden picket fence on the notorious Grassy Knoll.  But did a shot come from this drain? At the moment, there is not enough  evidence to state yes, but it remains an interesting premise.
> 
> An interesting sidebar to this speculation is the fact that in the 1980s  a section running vertically down the Grassy knoll collapsed. The  Dallas Street Dept. found that someone had dug up a section of this drain pipe  and cut away a piece about 2 feet X 4 feet and replaced the cut section.  But instead of welding the section back, whoever did this simply replaced  the section on the pipe and over time it gave way causing a collapse at  that point. There was some speculation that perhaps an assassin had stashed  his weapon in the drain pipe and was retrieved surreptitiously at a  later date. This drain was connected to the storm drain at the foot of the Grassy  Knoll.
> 
> ...






> Excellent trajectory from bridge storm drain side opening:
> But the biggest reason to have the 'real' shot from such a perspective would be the excellent trajectory.
> 
> 1. being in front, there would be no side-to-side tracking necessary.  One could hold on the sight picture for quite a while (many seconds).
> ...


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 26, 2013)

Brazen Deception by  Bill Smith  of the Secret Service:

 Bill Smith  of the Secret Service (and yes, Homer McMahon did express some degree of whimsical, bemused doubt about his true identity) [20]  lied his eyes out  to Homer McMahon about the origins of the assassination film he brought to NPIC with him from  Hawkeyeworks  in Rochester, New York. We know definitively from the examination of the four briefing board panels by both Homer McMahon and Ben Hunter, in the summer of 1997, that Bill Smith did bring with him to NPIC a version of the Zapruder film, and not  some other film.  This is crucially important, for from this basic fact we know that  Bill Smith of the Secret Service  lied to Homer McMahon and Bill Hunter about a number of things: (1) he lied when he said a private citizen donated the assassination film out of patriotism because he did not want to make any money on it; for Abraham Zapruder was determined to make as much money as he could off of the film, and did; (2) he lied when he said he carried the undeveloped film to Rochester and had it developed at  Hawkeyeworks;  for it is well documented that the camera-original Zapruder film was developed at the Kodak Plant in Dallas on Friday, November 22, 1963; (3) clearly, the film brought to NPIC from  Hawkeyeworks  by Bill Smith was created there, but it was not just  developed   it was a re-creation of the Zapruder film after its alteration at that facility, intended to masquerade as an original out-of-camera, unslit (16 mm wide),  double 8  film. It had to have been produced in an aerial-imaging optical printer with an animation stand affixed, such as that shown in Figures 9.4 and 9.5 of Professor Raymond Fielding's seminal 1965 textbook, The Technique of Special Effects Cinematography (Focal Press, Fourth Edition, 1985). The technique undoubtedly used  aerial imagery  was widely employed in Hollywood during the 1950s and 1960s, and can be read about on pages 224-232.

Those orchestrating the Zapruder film cover-up the weekend of the assassination were determined to call in a different work crew when the altered film (now  reassembled  optically in an  aerial imaging  optical printer as an unslit, 16 mm wide  double 8  film again) was returned to NPIC the night after Brugioni's  briefing board event.  The goal was obviously to make a  sanitized  set of briefing boards, from the  sanitized  film, which would now necessarily be absent the more egregious evidence of frontal shots, and therefore of crossfire, and conspiracy. This need is the only reasonable explanation for calling in a different work crew and telling them that the work was  need-to-know  and  above Top Secret,  and that not even their bosses were allowed to know what activity they had been involved in. Simply put, it was easy to fool McMahon and Hunter and whoever assembled the four panel briefing boards using their prints; the hard part, and the necessary part, was to keep the Brugioni team ignorant of the activity of the McMahon team. This succeeded remarkably well because of the culture of secrecy within the Agency, and Brugioni never found out about the second NPIC event until 2009. McMahon, who cannot be located today in 2012, and who is presumably deceased, never found out about it. This does not speak well for Arthur Lundahl, or Navy Captain Pierre Sands, however, who both must have understood the Big Picture, and known what was afoot at the facility they managed.

So the operative question remains, did the  Hawkeyeworks  facility have the capability to perform aerial imaging? Was there an optical printer with an aerial imaging animation stand installed, present at Hawkeyeworks?

 Hawkeyeworks  Explained:

After the Homer McMahon interview was released in 1998, JFK researchers loyal to the concept of an authentic Zapruder film that is  ground truth  in the Kennedy assassination downplayed the importance of the  Hawkeyeworks  story, either doubting its existence because there was no documentary proof, or alternately saying that the  Hawkeyeworks  lab was solely dedicated to U-2 and Corona satellite photography. But these critics were wrong on both counts.

First, Dino Brugioni, during his 2009 and 2011 interviews with Peter Janney and me, not only confirmed the existence of the state-of-the-art Kodak lab in Rochester used by the CIA for various classified purposes, but confirmed that he visited the place more than once, including once prior to the JFK assassination. (He also confirmed its existence in his recent book, Eyes in the Sky, on page 364.) Second, Dino Brugioni made clear to me, when I interviewed him in July of 2011, that the  Hawkeye Plant  (as he called it) was an enormous state-of-the-art private sector laboratory founded and run by Kodak, which performed far more tasks than  just  Corona satellite and U-2  special order  film services. He said that the Hawkeye Plant was involved in developing new film products and in manufacturing and testing special film products of all kinds, including new motion picture films, and that it definitely had the capability to process motion pictures. He did not see such equipment himself, but was told by Ed Green, a high-ranking Kodak manager at  Hawkeyeworks  with whom he had a relationship of trust, that the  Hawkeye Plant  could, and did, definitely process motion pictures. When repeatedly questioned about this capability by Peter Janney throughout the 2009 interviews, Brugioni said with great reverence, on several occasions,  They could do anything.  [21]

The CIA refused to provide me with any information about  Hawkeyeworks  when the Agency finally responded to my September 12, 2009 Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request on February 7, 2011. But that was hardly surprising, since over one year earlier, on January 27, 2010, the CIA wrote to me, cautioning:  The CIA Information Act, 50 U.S.C. Section 431, as amended, exempts CIA operational files from the search, review, publication, and disclosure requirements of the FOIA.  What this meant, in rather blunt language, was that if the CIA was running an  op,  such as the alteration of the Zapruder film immediately after JFK's assassination, then they didn't have to search for those records or tell me about it, in any way. So the failure by the CIA to answer any of my many questions about  Hawkeyeworks  means literally  nothing.

The plain facts are these: (1) the 8 mm (already slit!) camera-original Zapruder film was delivered to NPIC late on Saturday evening, 11/23/63, and the two Secret Service officials who brought it to NPIC for the making of briefing boards left with the film at about 3 AM Sunday morning; and (2) a 16 mm, unslit version of the Zapruder film was returned to NPIC the next night, after dark, on Sunday evening, 11/24/63; and its courier ( Bill Smith ) said it had been processed at  Hawkeyeworks,  and that he had brought it directly to NPIC in Washington, D.C. from Rochester (using the unmistakable code word  Hawkeyeworks ) himself.

 Double 8  home movies which have already been slit at the processing facility do not miraculously  reassemble  themselves from two 25-foot strips 8 mm in width, and connected with a splice in the middle, into 16 mm wide unslit double 8 films. A new Zapruder film was clearly created at  Hawkeyeworks  in Rochester, in an optical printer. Bill Smith told the truth when he said the film he carried had been developed there at  Hawkeyeworks;  he lied when he said that it was the camera-original film taken by the photographer in Dallas.

If  Hawkeyeworks  truly had the physical capability  to do anything,  as Ed Green informed Dino Brugioni, then all that would have been required that weekend would have been to bring in some experienced personnel  an animator or two, and a visual effects director  experienced in the  black arts  of Hollywood. Those personnel, if not already on-site, employed at  Hawkeyeworks,  could have been brought into Rochester on Saturday, November 23rd, the same day the JFK autopsy photographs were being developed in Washington, D.C. at Naval Photographic Center, Anacostia. The JFK autopsy photos developed on Saturday (per Robert Knudsen's 1978 HSCA deposition transcript) would have provided the guide for the image alteration necessary on the Zapruder film the next day, on Sunday. The JFK autopsy photos document the massive head wound created by clandestine, post mortem surgery on JFK's head wounds at Bethesda Naval Hospital, and would have provided a rough guide for the massive head wound in the top and right side of the skull that had to be painted onto selected Zapruder film frames the next day, on Sunday. No such parietal-temporal-frontal wound was seen at Parkland Hospital in Dallas by any of the treatment staff the day Kennedy was shot and treated there, but it had to be added to selected Zapruder film frames, to match the illicit post mortem cranial surgery at Bethesda that was being misrepresented in the autopsy photos as  damage from the assassin's bullet.  [22] In addition to painting on a false wound, of course, the forgers at  Hawkeyeworks  would have had to obscure  black out  the real exit wound, in the right rear of JFK's head, that was seen in Trauma Room One at Parkland Hospital. (More on this below.)

What is undeniable is that there are undisputed  facts on the ground  which indicate that an optically edited Zapruder film  a re-creation  arrived at NPIC in Washington, D.C. on Sunday night, 11/24/63, after the film had been in Rochester, at  Hawkeyeworks,  all day long. Remember, the two Secret Service officials who had the original 8 mm camera-original film departed NPIC with the film at about 3 AM (4 AM at the latest) on Sunday morning. They may have been at  Hawkeyeworks  with the film as early as 6 AM; and since the Zapruder film did not reappear at NPIC until well after dark on Sunday evening, approximately 12 hours (or more) may have been available to those at  Hawkeyeworks  who were engaged in its alteration.

A final comment here: those who insist upon injecting  Hollywood  expertise into the equation here, must respect  the facts on the ground.  The film that arrived at NPIC Sunday night did not come from anywhere else other than Rochester, N.Y.  it was not couriered from Hollywood, or New York City, or anywhere else other than Rochester  it came from  Hawkeyeworks,  per the words of the courier who brought it to NPIC Sunday night, Bill Smith. And the code word  Hawkeyeworks  meant one thing only  the state-of-the-art, Top Secret Kodak lab located at Kodak Headquarters, in Rochester, New York. Hollywood talent may very well have been involved in altering the Zapruder film, but if so, it was talent employed at the Kodak facilities at  Hawkeyeworks  in Rochester.
The Two NPIC Zapruder Film Events: Signposts Pointing to the Film's*Alteration ? LewRockwell.com


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 26, 2013)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJg2Iii55CQ"]JFK Autopsy Photo Switch and Jack Ruby Polygraph[/ame]


*Over and beyond the medical evidence, however, Horne&#8212;in Vol. IV of  INSIDE THE ARRB (2009), has also demonstrated that the home movie of the  assassination known as &#8220;the Zapruder film&#8221;&#8212;and others that correspond  to it, such as the Nix and Muchmore films&#8212;have been massively edited to  remove indications of Secret Service complicity in the crime and to add  other events to these films in order to sow confusion and conceal  evidence of the true causes of death of John F. Kennedy.  *For those  unfamiliar with this question, see &#8220;Kennedy Assassination Questions&#8221;,  in which I explain how even the consistent testimony of Clint Hill, the  Secret Service agent who rushed forward to assist Jackie during the  shooting in Dealey Plaza, confirms it.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aBqRB-DsFQ"]YouTube - Veterans Today -[/ame]​ There are many proofs that the film has been fabricated&#8212;including  that the driver brought the limo to a halt to make sure he would be  killed; that his brains were blown out to the left-rear; and that a  motorcycle patrolman accompanying the limo rode forward at the time of  the stop to inform Dallas Chief of Police Jessie Curry that the  president had been hit. But none of these events appears in the extant  version of the film, which has been massively edited. That these events  occurred has been established by more than 60 witness reports of the  limo stop, where the wound to the back of his head was confirmed by 40  witnesses, including virtually all the physicians at Parkland Hospital,  who described cerebellum as well as cerebral tissue extruding from the  wound. The blow-out to the right-front, as seen in the film, therefore,  is not authentic.
 Indeed, in an appendix to Vol. IV, Horne explains that a copy of the  film has now been studied by Hollywood exerts, who found that the  blow-out to the back of his head had been painted over in black in an  amateurish effort to obfuscate the blow out, which can actually be seen  in a few later frames, including 372 and 374. Those who have persisted  in defense of the authenticity of the film have offered three major  arguments&#8212;(1) that the features of the extant film correspond to those  of the original processed in Dallas, (2) that there was an unbroken  chain of custody, which precluded the film be changed; and (3) that the  Dealey Plaza films are not only consistent with themselves but with one  another, where the Zapruder could only have been faked if the others had  been as well.


 The following extracts from INSIDE THE ARRB (2009), Vol. IV,  demonstrate that all three arguments are fallacious: (1) there are five  features of the extant film that differ from those of the original and  (2) that different films were brought to the NPIC on consecutive days,  which vitiates the chain-of-custody argument. The consistency of the  films with one another (3) turns out to be an interesting question,  since they all seem to have been edited to remove the turn of the  presidential limousine from Houston onto Elm. More significantly, there  are subtle inconsistencies between the films and, most importantly, the  Zapruder film is not even consistent with itself, which proves that it  cannot possibly be authentic!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ0s9kspL4g"]YouTube - Veterans Today -Jim Fetzer at The Zapruder Film Conference[/ame]​ Horne&#8217;s new studies thus confirm the previous research that has previously been reported in [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Great-Zapruder-Film-Hoax-Deception/dp/081269547X"]THE GREAT ZAPRUDER FILM HOAX [/ame](2003), [ame="http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_jim_fetz_080205_new_proof_of_jfk_fil.htm"]&#8220;New Proof of JFK Film Fakery&#8221;[/ame] (2007), and [ame="http://www.opednews.com/articles/Zapruder-JFK-Film-Impeache-by-Jim-Fetzer-090324-48.html"]&#8220;Zapruder JFK Film impeached by Moorman JFK Polaroid&#8221;[/ame] (2008),  [ame="http://www.und.edu/instruct/jfkconference/UNDchapter30.pdf"]&#8220;Dealey Plaza Revisited: What Happened to JFK?&#8221;[/ame] (2009), [ame="http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/fetzer1.1.1.html"]&#8220;The JFK &#8216;Head Shot&#8217; Paradox&#8221;[/ame] (2010), where more can be found at [ame="http://assassinationscience.com"]assassinationscience.com[/ame].   An especially valuable study, which uses the new enhanced version of  the Zapruder film (by removing pincushion and aspect-ratio distortion  and adding missing frames and correcting the order of others) has been  produce by John P. Costella, Ph.D., as his [ame="http://www.assassinationscience.com/johncostella/jfk/intro/"]&#8220;JFK assassination film hoax&#8221; tutorial[/ame].


*The Turn from Houston Onto Elm May Have Been Removed from the Zapruder Film, the Nix Film, and the Muchmore Film*

_First,  let us examine the suggested identical alteration of the Zapruder film,  the Nix film, and the Muchmore film. Neither the Nix film, the Muchmore  film,nor the Zapruder film show the Presidential limousine turning left  from Houston Street onto Elm Street. Orville Nix told Mark Lane (on  film) in 1966 that his film has initially been &#8216;lost&#8217; by the processing  plant and that when the FBI returned his film to him, some of the frames  had been &#8216;damaged&#8217; and were missing. The originals of both the Nix film  and the Muchmore film (taken from the opposite side of thje plaza from  which Zapruder was shooting his film, and from much farther away) are  missing today. How convenient. The absence of first-frame overexposure  in frame 133 of the Zapruder film suggests, but in my view does not  prove, that the limousine&#8217;s turn from Houston onto Elm was removed when  the film was altered and recreated, using an optical printer. The fact  that the originals of the Nix and Muchmore films are missing is  extremely suspicious; they may have been removed from circulation to  prevent detection of their alteration&#8212;specifically, removal of the  limousine&#8217;s turn onto Elm from Houston and of the car stop during the  assassination. If ever found, one of the first things that should be  checked is to see if the limousine&#8217;s turn onto Elm Street in these two  films has been excised&#8212;either crudely, with splices, or via reprinting  those films in an optical printer._

*Clint  Hill&#8217;s Interactions with Jackie Kennedy on the Trunk of the Limousine  Appear to be Inconsistent in the Nix Film and the Zapruder Film*

_There  is also significant disagreement between the Nix film and the Zapruder  film. In Harry Livingstone&#8217;s 2004 book about the Zapruder film, he  discusses differences between the images of Clint Hall and Jackie  Kennedy on the trunk of the limousine in the Nix film, versus what is  shown in the Zapruder film. Livingstone correctly points out that in the  Nix Film, Clint Hill appears to place his left arm around Jackie  Kennedy&#8217;s right shoulder and push her back into her seat&#8212;where as in the  Zapruder film, he barely touches her with his right hand, and is not  seen embracing her with his left arm at all. (See pages 250&#8211;251 of  Livingstone for the pertinent Nix frames, and the MPI video of the  Zapruder film for comparison. A projected version of the portion of the  Nix film showing Clint Hill on the trunk of the limousine can been seen  in the 1973 film &#8220;Executive Action,&#8221; and it can be seen in its entirety  in the Groden DVD JFK Assassination Films: The Case for Conspiracy.)_

*Is the &#8220;Headsnap&#8221; Different in the Zapruder, Nix and Muchmore films*_?_

_The  &#8216;headsnap&#8221; in the Nix film appears to be slightly slower, and less  violent than in the Zapruder film; in the Muchmore film, there appears  to be no &#8216;headsnap&#8217; visible at all, but this may be inconclusive because  of the camera angle at the time of the headshot(s) and because the line  of sight to the President&#8217;s head is obstructed by Dealey Plaza  bystanders immediately afterwards. (See episode 3 of &#8220;The Men Who Killed  Kennedy&#8221; for footage oft he headshot(s) in both the Nix and the  Muchmore films; both films can also been seen in their entirety in  Robert Groden&#8217;s DVD JFK Assassination Films: The Case for Conspiracy.)  The perceived differences between the headshot(s) in the Zapruder, Nix,  and Muchmore films suggests that when debris exiting from the back of  President Kennedy&#8217;s head was removed from the three films, that it was  not done uniformly, resulting in three slightly different versions of  the motion of the President&#8217;s head caused by the fatal shot(s). This has  not been conclusively proven, but is worthy of further investigation. .  . ._


*Concluding Reflections*

There  is much more, but the Addendum, &#8220;The Zapruder Film Goes to Hollywood,&#8221;  pages 1352 to 1363, is of special interest, where highly qualified  experts on film restoration viewed a digital version of the forensic  copy of the Zapruder film obtained from the National Archives and found  that the massive blow out at the back of the head had been painted over  in black, which was a stunning confirmation of the observation of  Roderick Ryan, reported in Noel Twyman, BLOODY TREASON (1997), that the  bulging out of brains&#8212;called the &#8220;blob&#8221;&#8212;and the blood spray visible in  frames 314 and thereafter had also been painted in, where Ryan would  receive the Academy Award in 2000 for his contributions to  cinematography, where his area of specialization was special effects.



the zap film is modified but the nix film and the muchmoor film is gospel and absolute proof greer did it!  Lets hang em high!   LOL


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## Wolfstrike (Oct 27, 2013)

ther driver in front of full view of several people turned around, aimed a gun, and popped off a shot at the president?   ...all in a split second?


it's a stupid theory


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## KokomoJojo (Oct 27, 2013)

Wolfstrike said:


> ther driver in front of full view of several  people turned around, aimed a gun, and popped off a shot at the  president?   ...all in a split second?
> 
> 
> it's a stupid theory




that was a facetious comment.

The problem is that all the material out here is altered, and it has been altered in collusion with government agencies.

kennedy wanted to shut down the cia and we have a perfect example why.   There is only one reason those films would be so grossly modified.







a shot from the sewer would have sounded to many like it came from the knoll, others like it came from the depository depending on where you were situated and left the smell of gunpowder in the street fulfilling every angle of what people said in their testimony.

In re-reading the testimony I am not finding anyone who said they heard a bullet zing past their head.  That and the questioning of these witnesses is inconclusive.  In other words you will never get the correct answer if you dont ask the correct question.  The commission did not ask the correct questions, or at least if they did it is not showing up on any of the testimony put on the internet.


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## LA RAM FAN (Nov 2, 2013)

Wolfstrike said:


> ther driver in front of full view of several people turned around, aimed a gun, and popped off a shot at the president?   ...all in a split second?
> 
> 
> it's a stupid theory



actually its not at all in the fact that two of the main doctors as well as some physicians that examined him said the fatal head shot came for a HANDGUN fired at CLOSE range.a fact nobody here can get around and always plays dodgeball with. and they cant get around that he is clearly turning around raising his left arm pointing it at kennedy,oh and seven has posted here of a few witnesses saying they DID see a secret service agent in the limo firing a gun.


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## KokomoJojo (Nov 2, 2013)

9/11 inside job said:


> Wolfstrike said:
> 
> 
> > ther driver in front of full view of several people turned around, aimed a gun, and popped off a shot at the president?   ...all in a split second?
> ...




How can you know?

ALL the video, like 911, has been altered.  You dont need to be a forensics expert, it can be seen by simple cursory review. 

If you have a hp 55gr pill @3800 how can you tell what it came out of after the impact?  It would explode and turn his head into a canoe.

I read the statement about the SS firing a shot but that was completely inconclusive vague and nondescript as well.  The probability of someone in the car shooting over the top of connaly is low compared to the sewer or knoll or other vantage point since it would cause needless complications.


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## 7forever (Feb 22, 2014)

KokomoJojo said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > for a long time I thought it might be from the sewer drain there but it was really the the secret service driver Bill Greer.He had CIA connections.Seven eleven has exposed him on this thread here.
> ...



You started this thread for one reason: To post fictional bullshit about *the driver* not *shooting jfk. Of course you know that he did* because I've been posting about it for years. Some film alterations were done but evidence still remains in all three films. *The firecracker reference is consistent with the gun being fired in the limo*. Not to mention that *Betzner saw Greer's gun*.

Many eyewitnesses reported hearing a shot inside or near the Presidential limousine. The driver, Bill Greer was seated two rows in front of and slightly to Jfk's left.

*1.Bobby Hargis (Police motorcycle outrider, left rear of limousine*): 
Mr. Stern: Do you recall your impression at the time regarding the shots?
*Hargis: Well, at the time it sounded like the shots were right next to me*, 6WCH294.

*2. Austin Miller (railroad worker, on triple overpass*):
Mr. Belin: Where did the shots sound like they came from?
Miller: *Well, the way it sounded like, it came from the, I would say right there in the car*, 6WCH225.

*3. Charles Brehm *(carpet salesman, south curb of Elm St.): *Drehm seemed to think the shots came from in front or beside the President*. He explained the President did not slump forward as if  he would have after being shot from the rear, President Dead, Connally Shot, The Dallas Times Herald, 22 November 1963, p.2 

*4. Officer E. L. Boone *(policeman, corner of Main and Houston Streets):" *I heard three shots coming from the vicinity of where the President's car was*, 19WCH508. 

*5. Jack Franzen*: (south curb of Elm):* He said he heard the sound of an explosion which appeared to him to come from the President's car and ...small fragments flying inside the vehicle and immediately assumed someone had tossed a firecracker inside the automobile*, 22WCH840.

*6. Mrs. Jack Franzen *(south curb of Elm): Shortly after the Presidents automobile passed by*she heard a noise which sounded as if someone had thrown a firecracker into the Presidents automobileat approximately the same time she noticed dust or small pieces of debris flying from the Presidents automobile*, 24WCH525.

*7. James Altgens*: (photographer, south curb of Elm):*The last shot sounded like it came from the left side of the car, if it was close range because, if it were a pistol it would have to be fired at close range for any degree of accuracy*," 7WCH518.

*8. Hugh Betzner, Jr*. (south curb of Elm, nr junction with Houston): I cannot remember exactly where I was when I saw the following: *I heard at least two shots fired and I saw what looked like a firecracker going off in the president's car*. My assumption for this was because I saw fragments going up in the air, 

*I also remember seeing what looked like a nickel revolver in someone's hand in the President's car or somewhere immediately around his car *19WCH467


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## 7forever (Feb 22, 2014)

KokomoJojo said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > Wolfstrike said:
> ...



*Who else could Connally have seen that shot jfk?* He was looking at Greer when the shot was fired.

*Connally said he saw the fatal shot and quickly corrected himself but his reaction when looking at Greer proves he slipped up*. Watch him hit the floor in horror once he realized Greer shot JFK. *The Governor, logically starting turning toward the driver because he was braking before he shot the President*.

Obviously, at least the major wound that I took in the shoulder through the chest couldn't have been anything but the second shot. Obviously, it couldn't have been the third, because* when the third shot was fired I* was in a reclining position, and heard it, *saw it *and the effects of it, *rather--I didn't see it,* I saw the effects of it--so it obviously could not have been the third, and couldn't have been the first, in my judgment.







So I merely doubled up, and then turned to my right again and began to--I just sat there, and Mrs. Connally pulled me over to her lap. She was sitting, of course, on the jump seat, so I reclined with my head in her lap, conscious all the time, and with my eyes open; and then, of course, *the third shot sounded, and I heard the shot very clearly. I heard it hit him*. I heard the shot hit something, and I assumed again--it never entered my mind that it ever hit anybody but the President. *I heard it hit. It was a very loud noise, just that audible, very clear*.

*GREER FIRED RIGHT OVER CONNALLY'S HEAD and when he realized Greer fired it, he hit the floor, terrified*. WATCH THE GOVERNOR.


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## rightwinger (Feb 22, 2014)

Oswald did it


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## 7forever (Feb 23, 2014)

*I did NOT write this. From another poster/forum, a few years ago*.

Funny thing about conspiracies, and theories, is that often times the other parts of the "plan" are important parts, but made to DISTRACT from* a very simple truth!*

This is how it has always been, and this is the most important aspect of it all. *If you confront people with the "simple" evidence (which is the driver landed fatal blow) people will reject it* having been so used to such a complex conspiracy theory that no one will ever figure out!

It is Genius when you think about it, formulate a massive plan to take out JFK who was a threat to national security of the secret government. But the one thing they were counting on was *the man hiding in plain sight, with the means to finish him directly*. While everyone around the grassy knoll, the buildings, and even people within the car were panicking, they had no idea what was going on, *greer took the final shot*. It was the perfect distraction.

*edit the film that proves it*.


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## 7forever (Feb 23, 2014)

Here's the now infamous wink, back and to LBJ's right, just before being sworn in. The man to the left in the bowtie is *Congressman Albert Thomas, winking at LBJ*.


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## whitehall (Feb 23, 2014)

Congressional investigations aren't intended to uncover the truth. They are intended to cover the asses of the administration. The "grassy knoll" was just a dodge for the Warren commission so they wouldn't have to go into Oswald's background too deeply and explain to the Nation why the traitor was invited back into the US after he renounced his citizenship and fled to Russia. There is no doubt that Oswald shot Kennedy and killed Officer Tippit after he fled the scene. The question is why Ruby killed Oswald.


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## Freewill (Feb 23, 2014)

JFK Lancer


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## 7forever (Feb 23, 2014)

Freewill said:


> JFK Lancer



*The reflection was proven fake long ago*. It only appears in the Zapruder film. That means *it wasn't added to three other recordings where it must be present had it been real*. 

 -Mary Moorman took her *polaroid* at Zapruder frame 309, and in it *the white blob was not added*.

-The* Muchmore Film *is important and a bonus for proving Greer the real assassin. The capture below is the moment of the headshot and *no fake reflection was added to Roy's head either*.

-And finally,* the all-important Nix Film *provides a double whammy. Not only* is *it *missing the white blob*, but Roy's heads snaps back far enough to where his forehead faces the sky. Apparently they were able to curtail that movement in Zapruder. *His head moves perfectly with the white blob in Zapruder, but they didn't bother adding any fake imagery to these three other recordings*.

*-In Nix, Greer's left arm raises to the level of his right shoulder and retracts after the shot. THAT'S THE SMOKING GUN*.


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## Freewill (Feb 23, 2014)

Does anyone who subscribes to this BS actually look at the picutres/movie film?  Which way do we see the blood splatter?  Is it going to the front or the rear?  After you do that rationally think about it.  If the blood is going to the front does that not mean the shot was from the rear?  If you think it is traveling to the rear then maybe you are on to something.


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## Rockland (Feb 24, 2014)

7forever said:


> *The reflection was proven fake long ago*.



By whom?  You?  



7forever said:


> It only appears in the Zapruder film. That means *it wasn't added to three other recordings where it must be present had it been real*.



The Zapruder film is the only one shot from this angle, doofus.  You continue to show that you know *nothing* about how light reflects from different angles.


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## Freewill (Feb 24, 2014)

Rockland said:


> 7forever said:
> 
> 
> > *The reflection was proven fake long ago*.
> ...



Look HERE: JFK Lancer


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 24, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> Oswald did it



so says the government agent troll who runs off when cornered with facts he cant refute.


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## LA RAM FAN (Feb 24, 2014)

whitehall said:


> Congressional investigations aren't intended to uncover the truth. They are intended to cover the asses of the administration. The "grassy knoll" was just a dodge for the Warren commission so they wouldn't have to go into Oswald's background too deeply and explain to the Nation why the traitor was invited back into the US after he renounced his citizenship and fled to Russia. There is no doubt that Oswald shot Kennedy and killed Officer Tippit after he fled the scene. The question is why Ruby killed Oswald.



as always,you just come on here to troll blathering your inane nonsense without reading any other posts from anybody ignoring the facts that have been posted on how  all the dallas doctors all said the wound in the back of the head was an EXIT wound and the throut wound was an entrance wound as well as being ignorant of the fact witnesses saw agunman behind the fence firing a rifle.


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## Freewill (Feb 25, 2014)

Is the Zapruder Film Authentic or Fake? : The JFK Assassination


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## 7forever (Mar 1, 2014)

Freewill said:


> Rockland said:
> 
> 
> > 7forever said:
> ...



I used that years ago. It proves they (jfk lancer) omitted the fact that Greer's HANDS were off the wheel prior to those seven or eight frames that show no hand coming off the wheel. *Greer obviously shot jfk and no coverup was ever produced by anyone*. His guilt was simply ignored until I solved it over three years ago. *He starts passing the gun four seconds before he shoots jfk*.


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## 7forever (Mar 1, 2014)

Freewill said:


> Is the Zapruder Film Authentic or Fake? : The JFK Assassination



Stop posting links and start dealing with reality. The right lateral shows the right top and face removed. Do you understand how fucking crazy that is? *No frontal bone is listed as being part of the large wound described in the autopsy report*. Those metallic fragments were found behind the right eye where the shot really entered. *The smaller ones (lead snowstorm) are indicative of an impact in that area*. WAKE UP. *Two fragments were recovered by Humes, the same one is circled in both*.


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## 7forever (Mar 1, 2014)

Freewill,

Check this out. I did not make this gif. *Just note how fast Greer's left arm jerks back and then retracts. They did it and it was totally obvious* because there is no arm in Lancer's gif, it was going back with the headshot. *I think the left one is more clear*.


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## Freewill (Mar 1, 2014)

Really, a man in the car turns shoots the president and no one in the car even cares to notice?  Not Jackie or Mrs and Mr Conley?  Was he a suicide shooter who had no real concern for being caught?

Look at the blood splatter it is from back to front indicating very clearly the shot was from behind.


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## 7forever (Mar 1, 2014)

Freewill said:


> Really, a man in the car turns shoots the president and no one in the car even cares to notice?  Not Jackie or Mrs and Mr Conley?  Was he a suicide shooter who had no real concern for being caught?
> 
> Look at the blood splatter it is from back to front indicating very clearly the shot was from behind.



JFK: Eyewitness statements, assassination of President John F. Kennedy, murder of J. D. Tippit and arrest of Lee Harvey Oswald: Hugh William Betzner

*Hugh Betzner saw a nickel revolver in the President's car*. That's the gun that killed jfk. Betzner also witnessed Hickey's rifle which was photographed.

*I heard at least two shots fired and I saw what looked like a firecracker going off in the president's car*. My assumption for this was because I saw fragments going up in the air. I also saw a man in either the President's car or *the car behind his* and someone down in one of those cars *pulled out what looked like a rifle*. 

*I also remember seeing what looked like a nickel revolver in someone's hand in the President's car or somewhere immediately around his car*. Then the President's car sped on under the underpass.


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## Freewill (Mar 2, 2014)

You don't believe that the SS carries guns?

Seconds after Reagan was shot the SS had sub-machineguns.  So a SS agent pulling out a staged gun would only be a surprise if he didn't.

"nickel revolver *in someone's hand *in the President's car or *somewhere immediately around his car*"

Does this really sound reliable to you?


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## 7forever (Mar 2, 2014)

Freewill said:


> You don't believe that the SS carries guns?
> 
> Seconds after Reagan was shot the SS had sub-machineguns.  So a SS agent pulling out a staged gun would only be a surprise if he didn't.
> 
> ...



*It does because he passed a whited-out object*. That was the gun he used. 

*Jean Hill saw Greer shoot Kennedy* 

She died in 2000. Jean Hill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 

*She was just speculating that Greer was shooting back at whomever was shooting at the President*. This was an easy way of saying it without exactly saying it. But in those moments she may have thought it because it would be shocking to see your President killed intentionally by the men who took an oath to protect him from assassination attempts. *Mrs. Hill clearly turned to the left as the limo passed by in response to the shots and Greer suddenly braking during his second turn to execute the coup de grâce*.

Testimony Of Mrs. Jean Lollis Hill

Mr. SPECTER - What occurred at the time of the fourth shot which you believe you heard?
Mrs. HILL - Well, at that time, of course, there was a pause and I took the other shots---about that time Mary grabbed me and was yelling and I had looked away from what was going on here and *I thought*, because I guess from the TV and movies, *that it was Secret Service agents shooting back*. To me, *if somebody shoots at somebody they always shoot back and so I just thought that that's what it was and **I thought, well, they are getting him and shooting back, you know; I didn't know*.

Mr. SPECTER - Where was the President's car at the time you thought you heard the fourth shot?
*Mrs. HILL - The motorcade came to almost a halt at the time the shots rang out, and I would say it was just approximately, if not---it couldn't have been in the same position, I'm sure it wasn't, but just a very, very short distance from where it had been. It was just almost stunned*. 
Mr. SPECTER - And how about the time of the fifth shot, where do you think the President's car was?
Mrs. HILL - That was during those shots, I think it wasn't any further than a few feet---further down.
Mr. SPECTER - Which shots, now---you mean the fourth, and perhaps the fifth and perhaps the sixth shot? 
Mrs. HILL - Yes.

Mr. SPECTER - *You thought that perhaps the second burst of shots you heard were being directed toward him by the Secret Service*?

*Mrs. HILL - I Just thought, "Oh, goodness, the Secret Service is shooting back*." 

Mr. SPECTER - What was your impression as to the source of the second group of shots which you have described as the fourth, perhaps the fifth, and perhaps the sixth shot?
Mrs. HILL - Well, nothing, except that I thought that they were fired by someone else.
Mr. SPECTER - And did you have any idea where they were coming from?
Mrs. HILL - No; as I said, I thought they were coming from the general direction of that knoll.
Mr. SPECTER - Well, did you think that the Secret Service was firing them from that knoll?
Mrs. HILL - I said I didn't know-I really don't.
*Mr. SPECTER - You just had the general impression that shots were coming from the knoll?
Mrs. HILL - Yes.

Mr. SPECTER - And you had the general impression that the Secret Service was firing the second group of shots at the man who fired the first group of shots? 
Mrs. HILL - That's right*.

Mr. SPECTER - But you had no specific impression as to the source of those shots?
Mrs. HILL - No.

*Jean Hill was looking at the limo when Greer shot Jfk*. FRAME 310.


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## Freewill (Mar 2, 2014)

7forever said:


> Freewill said:
> 
> 
> > You don't believe that the SS carries guns?
> ...



OK, here is from your link, tell me, was there a dog in the car?

Mrs. HILL - Yes--I saw a dog in the car. They kept asking me, and I even gave that out on a radio or TV interview that I had seen a dog in the car. 
 Mr. SPECTER - In which car?
 Mrs. HILL - Between the President and Mrs. Kennedy, and they kept asking me what kind of a dog and I said, "I don't know, I wasn't interested in what was in the seat," but I said, "It was white and fuzzy," and I said, "It was something white and kind of fuzzy and it was in the seat between them," and I said, "I just got to thinking---it must be a small dog," because I had remarked to my girl friend as they were taking us in the police station, I said, "Why?" I said, "I could see Liz Taylor or the Gabors traveling with a bunch of dogs, but I can't see the Kennedys traveling with dogs. Why would they have a dog with them on tour?" And, when we remarked about that she and I both--and I said, "Did you see it? What kind of a dog was it? Why were they taking a dog?" I found out later that it was those roses in the seat, but I knew they were looking at something and I just barely glanced and I saw this.

Second: she says she saw Jack Ruby, Ruby was not there.

Thirdly: Mrs. HILL - Well, at that time, of course, there was a pause and I took the other shots---about that time Mary grabbed me and was yelling and I had looked away from what was going on here and I thought, because I guess from the TV and movies, that it was Secret Service agents shooting back. To me, if somebody shoots at somebody they always shoot back and so I just thought that that's what it was and I thought, well, they are getting him and shooting back, you know; I didn't know.

I think, "I didn't know" sums up her testimony...

Finally, if she testifies to more then three shots she is among the very, very small minority.


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## LA RAM FAN (Mar 5, 2014)

Freewill said:


> Is the Zapruder Film Authentic or Fake? : The JFK Assassination



thanks for proving you have done zero research into this case other than seeing what you WANT to see.  you prove in spades you have done no research into this case other than seeing what you want to see because if you had,you would know those lies posted on the NET there -where they can type in anything they want,have been exposed by the book THE ZAPRUDER FILM,THE GREATEST HOAX OF THE CENTURY.

 many hundreds of photography experts from around the world have said the zapruder film is a hoax, but trolls like you,have no interest in what EXPERTS say,only what our corrupt government institutions and the CIA controlled media tell you.

as always,you come here to get your ass handed to you on a platter.miserable fail as always just as you failed miserable on my thread to disprove the HSCA investigation in the 70's concluded the warren commission was wrong and there was a second shooter.


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## LA RAM FAN (Mar 5, 2014)

7forever said:


> Freewill said:
> 
> 
> > Rockland said:
> ...


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## Freewill (Mar 8, 2014)

Freewill said:


> 7forever said:
> 
> 
> > Freewill said:
> ...



Damn I just cracked the case wide open.  The DOG shot the president then jumped out and started humping Zapuder's leg to avoid suspicion.  Or do you think she is barking up the wrong tree?

And look in the background, the guy with the red shirt on the steps.  He definitely is shooting something.  I think he shot the dog.


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## 7forever (Mar 8, 2014)

Freewill said:


> Freewill said:
> 
> 
> > 7forever said:
> ...



She saw the secret service shoot back. All three videos verify Greer's shot, therefore anything she may have said that wasn't true does not refute what she really saw, the driver shooting back.


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## Freewill (Mar 9, 2014)

7forever said:


> Freewill said:
> 
> 
> > Freewill said:
> ...



Saying she saw a dog when there was not a dog certainly should bring into question here testimony which includes this which apparently you are ignoring.  And you two keep saying I am ignoring the evidence: 

Mrs. HILL - Well, at that time, of course, there was a pause and I took the other shots---about that time Mary grabbed me and was yelling and* I had looked away from what was going on here and I thought, because I guess from the TV and movies*, that it was Secret Service agents shooting back. *To me, if somebody shoots at somebody they always shoot back* and so I just thought that that's what it was and *I thought, well, they are getting him and shooting back, you know; I didn't know.*

OK, those are HER words not mine.  First bold, SHE LOOKED AWAY!  SHE THOUGHT THEY WERE SHOOTING BACK, THOUGHT!!!!  Second bold:  SHE INTERJECTS WHAT SHE THINKS AS LOGICAL WHICH IT IS NOT.  None the less she says she turned away and THOUGHT that they were shooting back.  Third Bold.  SHE!!!  SHE!! STATES SHE DID NOT KNOW.  What more do you need?  And no the pictures and videos do not prove what she is saying, I don't see a white dog in any of them.

So, Mrs. Connelly is sitting behind the driver.  He turns and shoots with a silver plated revolver which would have had to be held between her and Gov. Connelly and yet she does not know?  I listened to an interview with her and she did not sound like a nonsense person who would cover up someone shooting the president in very close range to where she was sitting.

Who would use a silver plated revolver?

Who would take such a chance?

Obviously the shot is from the rear if you view the pictures what you two provided.

No one has ever made the claim that a shot hit the president in the left side of his head.

Oh yeah, there is this too:  Mr. SPECTER - But you had no specific impression as to the source of those shots?
Mrs. HILL - No.


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## Freewill (Mar 9, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> Freewill said:
> 
> 
> > Is the Zapruder Film Authentic or Fake? : The JFK Assassination
> ...



Provide the link to ONE expert that makes the claim.  Time Magazine bought the film early on and made copies how could the conspirators change all the copies?  Why not just get rid of the film?  Any way here is a pro-conspiracy site that has the arguments that the film is real.  Here is their best reasoning:

_Finally, the most powerful and obvious point: the Zapruder film can hardly have been altered to cover up evidence of conspiracy, given that it contains almost irrefutable evidence of conspiracy:
When combined with certain uncontroversial facts, the Zapruder film provides explicit disproof of the singlebullet theory: Kennedys reaction to his throat wound occurs earlier than Connallys reaction to his back wound, which in turn occurs earlier than Connallys wrist wound.
Famously, the film reveals Kennedys sharp backandtotheleft movement in reaction to what can only plausibly be interpreted as a shot from in front.

If anyone did manage to alter the Zapruder film, they didnt make a very good job of it._

Is the Zapruder Film Authentic or Fake? : The JFK Assassination

I don't agree with their conclusion about what the film shows only that if you or I were to try and modify the film it first of all would be very hard in those days.  I don't even imagine how they could do such a thing with that type of media.  It would have taken weeks to do properly and the chain of custody just doesn't allow for that to happen.


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## Freewill (Mar 9, 2014)

Three cars back, are you freakin kidding me?  What Senator are you talking about please at least provide a name.

Again, no one in the car states that Greer fired anything.  Don't you think Jackie might have made mention if it were fact?  

You guys said that Hill saw the shot, she says she didn't.  Now you are trying to interject what someone thinks they smelled.  Whow.

OK, on edit I know see the name and the blurry reference.

Notes, he says he smelled smoke all the way to the hospital, do you think that is possible?

He says three shots coming from a deer rifle coming from the right rear.


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## 7forever (Mar 9, 2014)

Freewill said:


> 7forever said:
> 
> 
> > Freewill said:
> ...



The Senator saw, heard, and smelled Greer's shot. Your only defense for *Greer's shot* is that it *was an accident*, which is what Hill and the Senator are indirectly stating.  *Ralph Yarborough*

*The smell of Greer's shot was in the air*. According to Gary Mack the wind was blowing back east at 15 mph. That explains the Senators honest account. Not to mention the secret service shooting back. *I wonder what agent could have been shooting back in jfk's direction?* 

Look under 'Beats Fists Against Car'. "*The third shot he heard might have been a Secret Service man returning the fire", he said*. "The Senator was  three cars behind Jfk's, (*the white car*) with LBJ. *Look above 'Could Smell Gunpowder'*; *He smelled gunpowder all the way to Parkland Hospital*.


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## Freewill (Mar 9, 2014)

You are seeing things that are just not there.  The Senator is imagining things that just are not there.  Mrs. Connley was between Greer and the President, is she lying by omission?  

If you are going to ignore what you can see in your own presented evidence then I guess we are through here.  Look at the pictures you presented and see which way the blood is splattered.  If you would honestly do so you can not come to any other conclusion then the shot was from the rear.  little hole in, big hole out.


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## 7forever (Mar 10, 2014)

KokomoJojo said:


> they used to be large enough a person could easily fit in them



*It couldn't be the grassy knoll because the bullet only involved the right front impact, and right rear exit*. Slow motion confirmed that three years ago. The grassy knoll shot only could've entered the right temporal region. *The bullet entered over the right eye, which excludes the grassy snow job*. Of course this analysis conforms to the right rear exit.


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## Rockland (Mar 10, 2014)

7forever said:


> The bullet entered over the right eye



*How* did the bullet enter over the right eye, when Greer was seated to JFK's *left*?  It must truly have been a "Magic Bullet" for it to defy logic in this manner.  Then again, all of your posts defy logic.  

Please enlighten us, O Delusional One.


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## LA RAM FAN (Mar 10, 2014)

7forever said:


> Freewill said:
> 
> 
> > 7forever said:
> ...



paid trolls like freewill mention that part about Jean Hill saying she saw a dog in the limo to try and discredit her testimony about Greer firing the shot revealing they are agents of the government in the fact thats what the government  succeeded at for years discrediting her and her testimony because for years,they were able to supress a photo that we do not see in the zapruder film-remember the zapruder film has been altered,it shows things happening that contradict what MANY witnesses saw and and many of the best photography experts around the world have concluded its altered as well so thats where people like freewill troll fall flat on his face

the zapruder film was altered with them taking out the stuffed white dog that was in the limo that jean Hill saw. i cant remember the name of the witness but one of them who took film from a far distance and was not confiscated by the government,enhancements of that photo show there was indeed a stuffed white dog in the limo.

It wasnt a real LIVE dog,but that was the WHITE DOG she was referring to,the stuffed white puppet dog.it was well known that jackie wanted to take her stuffed white dog along for the ried that day so Hill was vindicated years later after the government unsuccessfully tried to discredit her.


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## LA RAM FAN (Mar 10, 2014)

Freewill said:


> You are seeing things that are just not there.  The Senator is imagining things that just are not there.  Mrs. Connley was between Greer and the President, is she lying by omission?
> 
> If you are going to ignore what you can see in your own presented evidence then I guess we are through here.  Look at the pictures you presented and see which way the blood is splattered.  If you would honestly do so you can not come to any other conclusion then the shot was from the rear.  little hole in, big hole out.



kinda like how YOU blatenly ignore  these 2 videos that shoot down your pitilful lies that oswald was the one assassin ignoring the actual photographs taken that day proving there were multiple shooters there that day with many several bullets photographed that day that could not be traced back to oswalds rifle.



and then refuse to listen to cyril wecht in his videos when he emphatically says the warren commission is bullshit,that the shot to head came from the front.

again your a fucking lying hypocrite.you post videos of YOUR version of events expecting people to look at them, but you refuse to watch videos that counter your lies as well.

 as well as dismissing what many credible witnesses saw and what the dallas doctors said and what photpgraphy experts from around the world say as well as ignoring the warren commission and secret service committed treason that day.the ss violating all standard op protocols and the warren commssion altering witness testimonys -a crime they should have all gone to jail for.

 you have been exposed for the lying fucking pathetic troll you are.

which is understandable since that mass murderer reagan is your hero,a guy who  as governor of california successully blocked jim garrisons probe into the case blocking extradiction requests of key high officials in government,something that had NEVER happened to him in his entire career.

Like Ford,reagan was rewarded handsomely for his role in the coverup also becoming future president.

Reagan was a traiter to the american people financing death squads so its obvious what your agenda here is.


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## Rockland (Mar 10, 2014)

Dear Whackjob,



> your (sic) a fucking lying hypocrite.you post videos of YOUR version of events expecting people to look at them, but you refuse to watch videos that counter your lies as well.
> 
> fucking pathetic troll you are.


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## Rockland (Mar 10, 2014)

"someone farted in here hurr hurr hurr" in 3...2...1...


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## LA RAM FAN (Mar 10, 2014)

why does these jfk thread only attract paid government trolls i got on my ignore list?


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## Rockland (Mar 10, 2014)

I see Whackjob altered his post to be even more paranoid and brain-dead.


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## LA RAM FAN (Mar 10, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> Freewill said:
> 
> 
> > You are seeing things that are just not there.  The Senator is imagining things that just are not there.  Mrs. Connley was between Greer and the President, is she lying by omission?
> ...



as always,the trolls have nothing but childish trolling posts when they cant refute the facts here posted.


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## Rockland (Mar 10, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> as always,the trolls have nothing but childish trolling posts when they cant refute the facts here posted.



I thought you had anyone who *dares* to have an opinion that upsets your delusions on ignore.  Liar.


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## Freewill (Mar 11, 2014)

the first video

1. the empty casket why?

If this story is true, so what?  Maybe they were trying to protect the body.  Doesn't prove a thing.

Body Alteration

2. LBJ have to gain?

Everything, so what?

3. Who is man on grassy knoll

At least three different investigations have concluded that JFK was hit from the rear not the grassy knoll.

4.  Why all witness die

People die everyday.

5.  Why as oswald arrested quickly.

He killed Tippets.  He ran from the scene.  He tried to kill the arresting officers.  Pretty clear.

6 who set up jack ruby

No one, he stumbled on Oswald purely by happenchance and acted on his own.

7 why was kennedys body alterned.

did not happen.

8 why did dalllas doctors change story

Again, didn't really happen

9 brain missing.

Only after the investigation, stolen by RFK most likely.

10.  I didn't get number 10

But let me point out.  The video uses the debunked Dictaphone evidence.  All this video is a selective use of evidence to prove what they want to prove.  Just like you are doing.

I am not watching two videos doing the same both of them over an hours.  Sorry I have heard them all before.


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## 7forever (Mar 11, 2014)

Freewill said:


> You are seeing things that are just not there.  The Senator is imagining things that just are not there. Mrs. Connley was between Greer and the President, is she lying by omission?
> 
> If you are going to ignore what you can see in your own presented evidence then I guess we are through here.  Look at the pictures you presented and see which way the blood is splattered.  If you would honestly do so you can not come to any other conclusion then the shot was from the rear.  little hole in, big hole out.



You are seeing things that are just not there. The Senator is seeing what the films show. He is corroborated by Jean Hill and many others who saw the shot in the car.    

If you are going to ignore what's in evidence then I guess we are through here. Look at the pictures you won't present and try to corroborate it with other evidence. *You'll see the blood splatter in the right front is not possible because it didn't happen*. If you would honestly do so, you would not come to any other conclusion than the shot was from the front. *A small hole over the right eye and large hole in the right rear, fired by Bill Greer*.


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## LA RAM FAN (Mar 11, 2014)

7forever said:


> Freewill said:
> 
> 
> > You are seeing things that are just not there.  The Senator is imagining things that just are not there. Mrs. Connley was between Greer and the President, is she lying by omission?
> ...



these agent trolls are always seeing things that arent there and never looking at films that show multiple bullets unnaccounted to oswalds rifle.
he wont look at those vidoes of mine i show that prove there were multiple shooters,ignores what the dallas doctors say,and whats witnesses saw,did you REALLY expect to get anywhere with the lying troll?


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## 7forever (Mar 11, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> 7forever said:
> 
> 
> > Freewill said:
> ...



Ya, and freewilly seems like such a nice boy. What a shame.


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## LA RAM FAN (Mar 11, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> 7forever said:
> 
> 
> > Freewill said:
> ...



further proof freewill is a lying paid troll.

Just like myself,Bob here below and others have seen the footage that shows Jean Hill is correct in her testimony about seeing a white dog.she was referring to  the stuff white dog a spectater gave Jackie  which Hill described seeing in the limo.

that footage was suppressed from the american people for years.then it emerged and vindicated jean hill.


Robert Harris 


I would like to thank Deanie Richards who just sent me the old news
footage which absolutely resolves the question of the little white stuffed
dog Jean Hill said she saw as the limousine approached her on Elm.
It appears that someone gave it to Jackie at Love Field. About a foot
long, it is very easy to see as she gets into the limo and then shows it
to JFK, who glances at it and then turns to shake someone's hand.

Jackie then places it on the seat between her and JKF, along with the
flowers. Of course, that is exactly where Jean said it was.

GP loses another one 

the below links dont work but any serious reseacher like myself knows about that supressed footage of the stuffed white dog jackie called Lambchops was indeed in the limo.further FACTS these agent trolls fall flat on their faces in their pathetic lies that zapruder film wasnt altered.


Robert Harris
JFK Assassination Home Page:   
http://www.thuntek.net/~rharris/jfk.html

FTP site:
ftp://thuntek.net/pub/users/sub/rharris/

Freewill was first exposed lying about cyril wecht,NOW he has been exposed as the paid agent troll he is trying unsuccessfully to discredit Jean Hill.


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## 7forever (Mar 11, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > 7forever said:
> ...



That's good stuff.


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## LA RAM FAN (Mar 11, 2014)

7forever said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



thanks.two more serious researchers who back up what Robert Harris says.

Jean Hill was discredited because of her observation of seeing a "little Dog" sitting between President Kennedy and Mrs. Kennedy at the time of the assasination , basically this observation appeared to make her a questionable witness. However the emergence of the lost TV tapes of the Kennedy's arriving at Love Field in Dallas clearly indicates that perhaps a spectator gave Mrs. Kennedy a "Lampchop" white dog puppet as she approached the Limousine to start the fatal motorcade ride through Dallas.Even people on this site contend there is noevidence of rhis in any of the above-view photos taken that day....I disagree. I know of a photo that shows a fluffy white object just to theright of Governor Connelly's shoulder and to the left of S.S.A. Roy Kellerman.
I think Jean Hill was credible and courageous and is another example of a profile in courage.
M.Moore
- Friday, August 31, 2001 at 1320 (CDT)


Jean Hill was villified by the Posner types because she said that she saw a dog in the car with JFk & Jackie! As it turns out, there was indeed a stuffed animal dog on the backseat at the time. I do beleive that she enhanced her story because of a couple of things. First and foremost is that she was a product of the times and people couldn't be as forthright as you might think. If you want to know who really planned the JFK hit, look no further than Texas and the Hunts!

In closing, I have a picture somewhere of myself, my daughter, and the lady in red from 1995! She was truly a nice lady who I believed for the most part!

Pedro Fernandez
Host-Talk America Radio Networks
Pedro Fernandez 
San Francisco, CA USA - Monday, June 18, 2001 at 13:33:37 (CDT)

the puppet white dog that Jean Hill saw was in fact a white puppet dog that Jackie brought along with her that she had nicknamed Lambchop.


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## LA RAM FAN (Mar 11, 2014)

KokomoJojo said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > Wolfstrike said:
> ...


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## Freewill (Mar 12, 2014)

Here is a video of the arrival of the Kennedys.  Anyone see a white dog?  Did they send the dog on its own plane like Obama does?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXcqKGev3KA&list=PL0O5WNzrZqIO8ncbT-_9268D_Khzxerpr&index=2]JFK ARRIVES IN DALLAS, TEXAS, ON 11/22/63 (VIDEO VERSION) - YouTube[/ame]

I can't produce a picture of the dog, you 9/11 nutjobs will have to produce a picture of a white dog in the car, should be rather easy, just doctor a real picture.


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## Freewill (Mar 12, 2014)

The Testimony of Jean Hill, underlined are her claims, the rest is the response to those claims.

Was in Dealey Plaza at the time of the shooting Yes She is plainly visible in several films and still photos in her red raincoat. 

She came to see "J.B. Marshall" [sic] her boyfriend, who was a motorcycle cop escorting the presidential limo No The officer she describes is not "J.B. Marshall," but rather B.J. Martin. 

She stepped into Elm Street and shouted "Hey, Mr. President, look this way. We want to take your picture." Almost touched front fender of limo. Sort of. Her Warren Commission testimony is that she was on the "edge" of the street. Contradicted by photographic evidence, which shows her several feet from the curb and not moving. 

Saw a little dog in the limo between John Kennedy and Jackie Yes An odd but doubtless sincere observation. May have mistaken bouquet of chrysanthemums in limo for small dog. Various photos show Jackie with flowers at Love Field, and in the limo. 

Heard four to six shots Yes This places her among a tiny minority of witnesses who heard more than three shots, although there is no reason to doubt her sincerity.

She saw a shooter on the Grassy Knoll in the "Badgeman" position No Flatly contradicts her statement on the day of the assassination (see above). 

The "whole back" of Kennedy's head exploded as he was hit No She told the Warren Commission that Kennedy's hair "rippled up" with no mention of the back of his head exploding. 
Ran across Elm Street up the Grassy Knoll so quickly she failed to see Jackie climbing out onto trunk of presidential limo, and was almost hit by motorcycle of officer escorting limo. Yes Photos by Wilma Bond show her first sitting, and then standing in position on Dealey Plaza infield for over a minute after the shooting, long after other bystanders had run up the Knoll. 

Saw Jack Ruby running from the corner of the Texas School Book Depository behind the Pergola toward the railroad yards Yes She doubtless saw a man running, but Jack Ruby was at the offices of the Dallas Morning News and could not have been in Dealey Plaza. 

Claims to have been waylaid by Secret Service agents immediately after the assassination, intimidated, and told she must say there were only three shots fired.  No Her affidavit of November 22nd, 1963, says that after the shooting she went with Mary Moorman and "Mr. Featherstone [sic] of the Times-Herald" to the press room of the Sheriff's office. Both Featherston and Moorman confirm that her original statement, rather than her current claims, is true. 

Her boyfriend, Officer "J.B. Marshall" [sic] told her that the presidential motorcade route was changed at the last minute No The "changed motorcade route" story is repeated in many books about the assassination, but in fact it did not happen. 

"Marshall" told her that Lyndon Johnson "ducked down" before any shots were fired. No Johnson was forced down by Secret Service agent Rufus W. Youngblood who reacted immediately when the shooting started. 

Her Warren Commission testimony, as reported in the Commission volumes, was very different from what she actually said. No Her published testimony is consistent with other statements she made in 1963-64, although not with her current claims. It also contains several elements that imply a conspiracy -- including four to six shots, hearing shots from the Knoll, and seeing Jack Ruby in Dealey Plaza. 

There have been attempts on her life No No supporting evidence has been produced. If attempts she describes in her book were real, they were extremely lame 

Sources: Anthony Summers, Conspiracy; pp. 28, 50-51, Jim Marrs, Crossfire, pp. 37-38, 322-324; Richard Trask, Pictures of the Pain, pp. 232-242; Bill Sloan with Jean Hill, The Last Dissenting Witness.


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## Freewill (Mar 12, 2014)

Here you can listen to Mary Ann Moorman.  This is number 2 number 1 is a waste and I didn't listen to any other.  She was with Mrs. Hill that day.  Note she contradicts Hill on many points.  She also believes that the limo came to a stop, AFTER the last shot was fired.  Of course it never really stopped but she honestly thought it did due to time compression, in my opinion.



Here is an essay on how time slows when scared and speeds up when we get older.

Among the most intriguing illustrations of &#8220;mind time&#8221; is the incredible elasticity of how we experience time. (&#8220;Where is it, this present?,&#8221; William James famously wondered. &#8220;It has melted in our grasp, fled ere we could touch it, gone in the instant of becoming.&#8221 For instance, Hammond points out, we slow time down when gripped by mortal fear &#8212; the cliche about the slow-motion car crash is, in fact, a cognitive reality. This plays out even in situations that aren&#8217;t life-or-death per se but are still associated with strong feelings of fear. Hammond points to a study in which people with arachnophobia were asked to look at spiders &#8212; the very object of their intense fear &#8212; for 45 seconds and they overestimated the elapsed time. The same pattern was observed in novice skydivers, who estimated the duration of their peers&#8217; falls as short, whereas their own, from the same altitude, were deemed longer. Why Time Slows Down When We?re Afraid, Speeds Up as We Age, and Gets Warped on Vacation | Brain Pickings

This type of brain reaction is why eyewitness accounts can be so unreliable.


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## 7forever (Mar 13, 2014)

Freewill said:


> Here is a video of the arrival of the Kennedys.  Anyone see a white dog?  Did they send the dog on its own plane like Obama does?
> 
> JFK ARRIVES IN DALLAS, TEXAS, ON 11/22/63 (VIDEO VERSION) - YouTube
> 
> I can't produce a picture of the dog, you 9/11 nutjobs will have to produce a picture of a white dog in the car, should be rather easy, just doctor a real picture.



None of those things matter in the least. *Greer passed the gun in the Zapruder film*. She's corroborated by me simply acknowledging that video fact.


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## Rockland (Mar 13, 2014)

7forever said:


> *Greer passed the gun in the Zapruder film*.



You mean the Zapruder film you keep insisting has been altered?  That Zapruder film?

You don't get to pick and choose which frames are real or fake in order to support your delirium, Sugarlump.


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## LA RAM FAN (Mar 13, 2014)

Freewill said:


> Here is a video of the arrival of the Kennedys.  Anyone see a white dog?  Did they send the dog on its own plane like Obama does?
> 
> JFK ARRIVES IN DALLAS, TEXAS, ON 11/22/63 (VIDEO VERSION) - YouTube
> 
> I can't produce a picture of the dog, you 9/11 nutjobs will have to produce a picture of a white dog in the car, should be rather easy, just doctor a real picture.



hey lying troll,not EVERYTHING is on the net. oh and you cant expect anybody to read your bible length lies when you keep blatanly ignoring facts that the zapruder film has been altered,not only do what some of the witnesses say contradict what it shows,so does the testimony of agent clint hill when he tesifified saying he shoved jackie back in the acr where he is not seen touching her,Hill i gues is not credible to you though?

you show off what a lying paid troll you are in the fact you ignore what all the dallas doctors say besides ignoring what witnesses saw ,as well as ignoring videos that show photographs taken that day of multiple bullets seen all over the place covered up since they could not be traced back to oswald rifle,ignoring the warren commission committed treason altering witness testimonys,ignoring people who had a version different than the governments,that most died in mysterious deaths,ect,ect,

till you stop being a lying troll and stop ignoring all these facts,your a joke and nobody here is going to read your bible length lies anymore the fact you wont watch vidoe that shoot down your lies.Im pretty sure everybody besides myself has stopped reading them since they know your such as joke ignoring as well that the HSCA investigation even concluded there was a second shooter.

for the hundreth time idiot,Blakey the lead investigater for the HSCA investigation,wrote a book about it how the HSCA investigation concluded the warren commission was wrong,that there was a second gunman involved behind the picket fence.you constantly prove you only see what you want to see constantly ignoring this link below. you constantly prove what a lying hyporite troll you are as well posting vidoes expecting people to watch them when you wont even watch videos that shoot down the lies of the warren commission.that proves how pathetic a troll you are.

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Plot-President-George-Robert-Blakey/dp/0812909291[/ame]

Individuals are walking the streets of American today who should be and eventually may be indicted for the unrequited murder of President John F. Kennedy. The President was not the victim of a nut gunman, Lee Harvey Oswald, alone, but of an organized crime conspiracy. This is the sensational scenario of the book that qualifies as the definitive account of the


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## LA RAM FAN (Mar 13, 2014)

7forever said:


> Freewill said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a video of the arrival of the Kennedys.  Anyone see a white dog?  Did they send the dog on its own plane like Obama does?
> ...



if this paid troll was a serious researcher,he would go to these JFK conferences around the country and see for himself they have shown the film of the white dog that I have seen like those others have from going to these conferences. unlike him,i am serious researcher.the troll is clueless that not EVERYTHING is on the net.


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## LA RAM FAN (Mar 13, 2014)

Freewill said:


> Here you can listen to Mary Ann Moorman.  This is number 2 number 1 is a waste and I didn't listen to any other.  She was with Mrs. Hill that day.  Note she contradicts Hill on many points.  She also believes that the limo came to a stop, AFTER the last shot was fired.  Of course it never really stopped but she honestly thought it did due to time compression, in my opinion.
> 
> Part 1 - JFK Assassination Photograph Taken By Mary Moorman - In Depth Interview - YouTube
> 
> ...



nice game of dogeball you play. like seven said,all that is irrelevent,who cares what she says NOW,what she said THEN its whats important. all that is irrelevent because we have two of the main doctors saying his gunshot wound to the head was from a HANDGUN fired at CLOSE RANGE ,and Greer as seven proved over on my thread,was shown to be LYING about everything eh said or did and for the hundreth time,we know the zapruder film has been altered,many witnesses said it came to either a near complet stop or complete stop and it does not show agent clint hill shove jackie back into the limo like he SAID he did so that patheitc video of yours is irrelevent just liek seven said.


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## LA RAM FAN (Mar 13, 2014)

Freewill said:


> Here is a video of the arrival of the Kennedys.  Anyone see a white dog?  Did they send the dog on its own plane like Obama does?
> 
> JFK ARRIVES IN DALLAS, TEXAS, ON 11/22/63 (VIDEO VERSION) - YouTube
> 
> I can't produce a picture of the dog, you 9/11 nutjobs will have to produce a picture of a white dog in the car, should be rather easy, just doctor a real picture.



not EVERYTHING is on the net Einstein

AGAIN if you werent a paid  shill,you would have talked to serious researchers around the country and have viewed that film taken by now, but you only see what you want to see and have no interest in the truth or talking with fellow independent researchers that have exposed the truth as you have demonstrated countless numbers of times even ADMITTING you wont watch my two videos since they expose there were multiple bullets photographed that day that could not be traced back to oswalds rifle which proves there were multiple gunman.


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## LA RAM FAN (Mar 13, 2014)

Freewill said:


> Here is a video of the arrival of the Kennedys.  Anyone see a white dog?  Did they send the dog on its own plane like Obama does?
> 
> JFK ARRIVES IN DALLAS, TEXAS, ON 11/22/63 (VIDEO VERSION) - YouTube
> 
> I can't produce a picture of the dog, you 9/11 nutjobs will have to produce a picture of a white dog in the car, should be rather easy, just doctor a real picture.



kinda like the FACTS you ignore that they doctored the autopsy photos and the zapruder film was altered.


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## LA RAM FAN (Mar 13, 2014)

Freewill said:


> the first video
> 
> 1. the empty casket why?
> 
> ...



thanks for proving all you ever do is when you DO look at a video,you only watched the first few minutes of it.you even confessed you did not watch the second one because the actual evidence in there shoots down your pitifulful lies.

1 you fail miserably as always in the fact that what the dallas doctors saw and what the photos taken at bethesda shown were completely different which proves the body was altered.this has been covered and proved in at least a couple books you wont read if i mention them.
2.LBJ had more to gain by the assassination that anybody.you demostrate your ignorance in the fact that there were investigations going on in congress about his murders of a few men and many scandals he was involved in.that very day on the assasination,there were hearings going on with lawyers intending to prosecute him with witnesses who knew about some murders he had ordered.that day in the court,when the assassination was announced,the judge said that everyting thats been talked about up to that point was all irrelevent now and sure enough,the case of murders LBJ was behind was dropped.
as president,he was able to shut down the investigation.

 He as well handpicked the members of the warren commission himself and it was also coined a PRESIDENTIAL BLUE RIBBON INVESTIGATION. effectively shutting down an independent investigation of congress that congress was trying to get started.

3.those 3 investigations you ramble about were all controlled by the government,they were hardly independent investigations. you ALSO troll here ignoring my thread that the HSCA investigation concluded in the 70's the warren commission was wrong,that there was a SECOND shooter on the grassy knoll as i proved HUNDREDS of times that you keep ignoing only taling about what the warren commission said.

4.only an idiot would believe the CIA  didnt kill many of the witnesses there that gave versions that did not go along with the governments version of events which your posts have demonstrated you are.

5.bullshit,there niot only is not a shread of evidence he killed jfk,there was no evidnece whatsoevber he killed tippet in the fact that none of the witnesses to the tippet shooting,could descirbe oswald as the shooter.they gave descriptions of a man who looked NOTHING at all like oswald running away,saying he was heavy set.their star witness helen markham who they relied on,changed her story so many times that even lawyer jospeh ball that intergated her said she was a screwball.thats all in the transcripts.

plus the officer that marked the shells that day proves Ball was right that she was a screwball.he reported over the dispatch radio that the slugs that killed tippet were from a 38 revolver,oswalds gun he was found with was a 38 special idiot.

6.yeah thats why in the video that you refused to watch ENTIRELY as you proved,Ruby tells reporters shortly before he got killed off,that had adlai stevenson been vice president during the time,kennedy would not have been assassinated.he is heard in the video saying the man in office now is responsible for the coverup.thanks for proving you did not watch it.Johnson and Nixon had deep ties to the mod and were long time buddies in the senate together.Nixon had a friendship with jack ruby going back to 1947 when he pardoned him from the house select committe hearings. proof of your ignorance.

7.bullshit,you have been caught lying and trolling as always.

8.bullshit and lies from you as always.

9.thats the lie thats been spread by the CIA controlled media and your handlers in the government instruct you to tell..

10.thats because you never listen,again,you just proved you only watched a small portion of it and not the entire thing ignoring all the photographs taken that day that prove multiple bullets were found all over the place proving there were multiple shooters.

you saw you were cornered by the rest of the facts coming up so you turned tail and ran and did not address any of the other much more imporatant stuff after that  knowing there was too much you could not counter.

and you also ASSUMED the next video was the same proving in spades you did not watch it because you have no interest in the truth  since that video also shreads to pices the lies of the warren commission.


you have been proven time and time again your a lying paid troll who ignores FACTS that HSCA investigation concluded there was a second shooter and contrary to your lies,the sound recording was never debunked and you cant debunk all the credible people who saw a gunman behind the picket fence or the dallas doctors what they ORIGIANLLY said which shoot down your b.s lies.

you keep failing miserably in your pathetic lies.


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## LA RAM FAN (Mar 13, 2014)

oh and like i said before,dont expect me to read any more of your bible length lies,you turn tail and run when cornered by facts in those videos there were multiple shooters and just proved what i have said about you all along,that your a hypocrite troll,posting irrelevent videos but you wont watch videos I post.you watched about 5 minutes of that video and then ran off from the rest of the facts covered after that only talking about the first five minute of the film.pathetic plus you mentioned you did nto watch the second one which is entirely different than the first.

its so obvious your agenda here is to spread lies but you fall miserably on your face EVERYTIME as all the non agents here can see.


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## Freewill (Mar 14, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> Freewill said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a video of the arrival of the Kennedys.  Anyone see a white dog?  Did they send the dog on its own plane like Obama does?
> ...



The HSCA found that the X-rays and photos were authentic. They also found that the Parkland doctors, honestly, were mistaken.  And that is the committee that had the conclusion of conspiracy.   For the Zapurder film to be altered they didn't do a very good job, now did they?  Time bought the film and made copies of that film.  Did those who altered the film alter those too?  Really?


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## 7forever (Mar 14, 2014)

Freewill said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > Freewill said:
> ...



It doesn't matter who says they are/were authentic. They are not unless jfk's face was removed. *What part of that do you not comprehend?*


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## LA RAM FAN (Mar 15, 2014)

I love how he kleeps evading those teo videos and even ADMITS he is trolling confessing he wont watch the second one since he knows he is cornered.Notice hoe he knows he is cornered by facts and has no comebacks either? the cat got the tongue. His handler obviously ran out of lnew lies to think of in evasion.

love how he worships the GOVERNMENTS word that because THEY say it wasnt faked,it WASNT.comedy gold.ignoring what the best photograpy experts from around the world say as well as ignoring what witnesses saw that backs up the dallas doctors and ignoring the fact the dallas doctors were the best trained professionals to examine him,believing THEM who relied on the what doctors Humes and Boswell said in bethesda  who had NO EXPERIENCE Iin doing autopsys.

I love how  he keeps evading facts that the zapruder film has been altered as well ignoring that the best photography experts from around the world have concluded it is and ignoring what witnesse said they saw which is totally different than what the zapruder film shows.


miserable fail.his bosses sure pay him well to embarrass himself here everyday.


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## 7forever (Mar 15, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> I love how he kleeps evading those teo videos and even ADMITS he is trolling confessing he wont watch the second one since he knows he is cornered.Notice hoe he knows he is cornered by facts and has no comebacks either? the cat got the tongue. His handler obviously ran out of lnew lies to think of in evasion.
> 
> love how he worships the GOVERNMENTS word that because THEY say it wasnt faked,it WASNT.comedy gold.ignoring what the best photograpy experts from around the world say as well as ignoring what witnesses saw that backs up the dallas doctors and ignoring the fact the dallas doctors were the best trained professionals to examine him,believing THEM who relied on the what doctors Humes and Boswell said in bethesda  who had NO EXPERIENCE Iin doing autopsys.
> 
> ...



At least he's not willing to say the right front is the right side. Good for him. I'm probably the first person to ever point out that some frames match the right lateral. *That right there is corroboration of fake and altered evidence*.


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## Rockland (Mar 15, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> I love how he kleeps evading those teo videos



Wanna try that again in Earthling?


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## Freewill (Mar 16, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> I love how he kleeps evading those teo videos and even ADMITS he is trolling confessing he wont watch the second one since he knows he is cornered.Notice hoe he knows he is cornered by facts and has no comebacks either? the cat got the tongue. His handler obviously ran out of lnew lies to think of in evasion.
> 
> .



Apparently the only thing you don't love is the truth.  Ignoring a 58 minute video based on false information is really logical, not avoidance.  I at least look at most of what you post you just ignore everything counter and just keep posting the same BS over and over.

Any way I tried to get you to admit that the blood splatter indicates as shot from the rear.  It not only indicates it, it proves it.

Tech puts JFK conspiracy theories to rest - Technology & science - Science - DiscoveryNews.com | NBC News


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