# Universal Healthcare



## Thinker101 (Jul 20, 2019)

Democrats/liberals seem to be gung ho on universal healthcare these days.  Ever wonder where that concept originated?

ADOLPH HITLER: The Real Father of Universal Health Care


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## Mac1958 (Jul 20, 2019)

And another Hitler thread.


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## Cellblock2429 (Jul 20, 2019)

Mac1958 said:


> And another Hitler thread.


/----/ NO - it's another Socialized Medicine thread.


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## Thinker101 (Jul 20, 2019)

Mac1958 said:


> And another Hitler thread.



Yep, much better to stay ignorant, you're free to pass on this thread.


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## Mac1958 (Jul 20, 2019)

Thinker101 said:


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Yes, I know the other tribe is Hitler.

One of the many goofy tactics each tribe shares.
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## jc456 (Jul 20, 2019)

Mac1958 said:


> And another Hitler thread.


Why are you opposed to informing where ideas originated? Odd


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## easyt65 (Jul 20, 2019)

I wonder if the Democrats call it / dubbed it ''Universal' health care because they want to give everyone in the universe 'free' health care - at Middle Class US citizen tax-payer expense?!


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## Harry Dresden (Jul 20, 2019)

hitlers health care was only for the right people.....


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## Mac1958 (Jul 20, 2019)

jc456 said:


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Obtuseness, one of many behaviors shared by wingers on both ends.
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## jc456 (Jul 20, 2019)

Mac1958 said:


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We learn from history, it’s a normal process


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## Rustic (Jul 20, 2019)

Mac1958 said:


> And another Hitler thread.


Hitler/socialism same difference, Why do you think there is such a strong resistance to socialism in this country?

Socialism is as repugnant... as it gets


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## MarathonMike (Jul 20, 2019)

Thinker101 said:


> Democrats/liberals seem to be gung ho on universal healthcare these days.  Ever wonder where that concept originated?
> 
> ADOLPH HITLER: The Real Father of Universal Health Care


The goal of Socialized Medical Care is transferring control from the individual to the State. Ronald Reagan warned us of this over half a century ago. No surprise then that Hitler was a big fan of Socialized Medicine. It's all about control over your people.


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## Thinker101 (Jul 20, 2019)

MarathonMike said:


> Thinker101 said:
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Yup, but I'm sure their *version *is much different.


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## jc456 (Jul 20, 2019)

Harry Dresden said:


> hitlers health care was only for the right people.....


And the others were buried


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## Cellblock2429 (Jul 20, 2019)

Harry Dresden said:


> hitlers health care was only for the right people.....


/----/ And the democRATs health care is only for the illegals.


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## Harry Dresden (Jul 20, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


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 us citizens are exempt?....can you prove that?..


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## Harry Dresden (Jul 20, 2019)

Harry Dresden said:


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well are you going to prove that?...


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## Cellblock2429 (Jul 20, 2019)

Harry Dresden said:


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/——/ yes, try and sign up and you’ll find high premiums, high deductibles and limited choices. But democRATs want feee health care for illegals.


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## Missouri_Mike (Jul 20, 2019)

Mac1958 said:


> And another Hitler thread.


It’s a history thread. Maybe you should pay attention.


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## Mac1958 (Jul 20, 2019)

Missouri_Mike said:


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Yeah, that's what it is.

Partisans.  Too funny.
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## Harry Dresden (Jul 20, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


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but you said american citizens are exempt....there lots of Americans getting free healthcare at the taxpayers expense....especially in California.......


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## Thinker101 (Jul 20, 2019)

Harry Dresden said:


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Yep, but they're all Latin Americans.


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## Harry Dresden (Jul 20, 2019)

Thinker101 said:


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all of them?....when i lived there i delivered to many people who were not brown getting California aide....


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## Thinker101 (Jul 20, 2019)

Harry Dresden said:


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Geez, we talking Healthcare or *any *aide?  Don't go changing the parameters.


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## jasonnfree (Jul 20, 2019)

One link to health care outcomes of other  countries compared to USA.   We' re like # 36 compared to the countries who have a more socialized way of handling their health care.  Notice this is including infant mortality.   

Findings International Comparison | 2018 Annual Report


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## Cellblock2429 (Jul 20, 2019)

jasonnfree said:


> One link to health care outcomes of other  countries compared to USA.   We' re like # 36 compared to the countries who have a more socialized way of handling their health care.
> 
> Findings International Comparison | 2018 Annual Report


/——/ And their national defense is paid by US taxpayers do they can afford to be generous. But now President Trump is making them pay their fair share of NATO. Bye bye freebies.


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## jasonnfree (Jul 20, 2019)

Still waiting for that Grreeat health insurance that trump promised when he was running for prez while badmouthing obamacare.


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## Cellblock2429 (Jul 20, 2019)

jasonnfree said:


> Still waiting for that Grreeat health insurance that trump promised when he was running for prez while badmouthing obamacare.


/—-/ It’s called free market.


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## jasonnfree (Jul 20, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


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So in the meantime health care suffers so the 'defense industry' can hog up more money.  What about the children and the infants?  Or is it  all about  winning and to hell with human lives?


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## Harry Dresden (Jul 20, 2019)

Thinker101 said:


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ok health care....hows that?....i used to deliver medical first class letters to many people in Anaheim and many were as white as you can be....


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## Thinker101 (Jul 20, 2019)

Harry Dresden said:


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There ya go, a medical first class letter....WTF.


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## Harry Dresden (Jul 20, 2019)

Thinker101 said:


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 you dont think they dont communicate with the people that have it?...you just have it magically?...


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## Thinker101 (Jul 20, 2019)

Harry Dresden said:


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And you feel a medical first class letter is the magic ticket?


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## Harry Dresden (Jul 20, 2019)

Thinker101 said:


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what the fuck do you think the letter says?...


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## Thinker101 (Jul 20, 2019)

Harry Dresden said:


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Well, I'm guessing they were in a sealed envelope.  Not that that would stop a low life letter carrier.


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## Cellblock2429 (Jul 21, 2019)

Thinker101 said:


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/——-/ You’re debating a mail man? Bwhahahaha Bwhahahaha


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## Harry Dresden (Jul 21, 2019)

Thinker101 said:


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aww whats the matter thinker?..did i say something you just cant comprehend?....have you never got a letter from your ins company?...or are you one of those california people getting aide yourself ?......


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## Thinker101 (Jul 21, 2019)

Harry Dresden said:


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Yes I have, many.  Should I be surprised that none of them said FREE insurance on the outside or the inside.


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## Harry Dresden (Jul 21, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


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as compared to a guy who wears a cellblock?...



Cellblock 13 Alpha Jockstrap
from eBay - ca_athlete_gear
Men · Spandex · Polyester · Striped
Official


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## Harry Dresden (Jul 21, 2019)

Thinker101 said:


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did i say it said free?....or was that you?..all i said was there are many non brown people that get letters from medical...but maybe you did not like it when i said non brown people get those letters too...which is it?....


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## Thinker101 (Jul 21, 2019)

Harry Dresden said:


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Well, if you go back to post #18, what started this conversation, you'll see the word "*free*".  That would be your first indication.


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## Harry Dresden (Jul 21, 2019)

Thinker101 said:


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all i said was more than just brown people get Medcal....and then i get called a lowlife....get out of california its eating you up...


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## Polishprince (Jul 21, 2019)

Mac1958 said:


> And another Hitler thread.



Socialized Medicine, Gun Control and Genocide are the 3 pillars of National socialism, Mac.


Mr. Hitler's plan was to impose his will upon the whole world, and that's why millions of men were conscripted into the military and many were sent to Europe to defeat his socialist ideology.

When Obama established his risky Obamacare Medical Scheme, a lot of WWII veterans who sacrificed so much felt they had done so in vain and Hitler was getting the last laugh from the grave.

A lot of these veterans were so heart broken, they actually died over this.  I've heard that there are stats indicating the an ACTUAL MAJORITY of surviving WWII vets keeled over dead between January 2009 and January 2017 during the Obama regime.  I don't know if it was a majority, but a lot of those guys did buy the farm in the O Era.


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## Flopper (Aug 1, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


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Yep, those with the most money get the best care.  Those with no money get no healthcare.  It's such a simple elegant system, you have to wonder why everyone is not embracing it.
It's also referred to as survival of the fittest.


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 1, 2019)

Flopper said:


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/—-/ Having spent the first half of my adult life in the free market. It was affordable, no deductibles, no referrals and no copay. All Rx was included. And I was earning slightly twice the minimum wage when I started.  Yeah that really sucked. Thank the bureaucrats for messing it all up and creating this nightmare.


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## Polishprince (Aug 1, 2019)

Mac1958 said:


> And another Hitler thread.




Mr. Hitler was one of the most influential thinkers of the 20th Century.  Even though he died in Berlin in 1945 and his government collapsed, in many ways he is the ultimate victor in WWII.

The 3 legged stool of national socialism was Genocide, Gun Control and Government Controlled Healthcare.   America drafted 10 million to stop Hitler's Holocaust program and more than 400,000 were killed including 700 African Americans,  countless others were injured.  Even those who weren't killed or injured, many gave up great jobs to fight Hitler.

And now, Mr. Hitler's program is finally coming to fruition- he has seized victory from the jaws of defeat.

So many WWII guys are crestfallen- realizing that their hard won victory is being nullified.  A lot of WWII guys have actually died because of their grief.   

I read the obits, every week WWII guys were croaking.  Now that Trump is President, these guys aren't dying at the same rate.


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 2, 2019)

Polishprince said:


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/——/ Hitler was a moron, and the democRATs have more in common with the Nazis than Republicans ever will have, like gun control, high taxes, anti semitism, and central planning.


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## Mac1958 (Aug 2, 2019)

Polishprince said:


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Invoking Hitler in any conversation, comparing that monster to Americans, is intellectually dishonest, intellectually lazy, ignorant, obtuse, or some combination therein.

Not to mention being an insult to MILLIONS who REALLY suffered, and those who still do.

And of course, it's yet another behavior shared by both ends of our crazed political spectrum, which appear to decay by the day.
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## JoeB131 (Aug 2, 2019)

Thinker101 said:


> Democrats/liberals seem to be gung ho on universal healthcare these days.  Ever wonder where that concept originated?
> 
> ADOLPH HITLER: The Real Father of Universal Health Care



Germany had universal health care long before Hitler got there. 

it actually goes back to Otto von Bismarck.  

HealthMatters: The Bismarck Model

Bismarck was the ultimate arch-conservative... but even he saw the wisdom of universal health care. 






_In 1883, the reactionary German chancellor Otto von Bismarck, a Prussian autocrat through and through, proposed the health care model that came to be adopted by many European nations and that echoes decisively today in the American health care apparatus. Though no social reformer, Bismarck viewed universal health insurance as an effective tactic in his grand design for German unification, which trumped his conservative tendencies. What has come to be known as the Bismarck Model survived the German militarism of World War I, the unstable democracy of the Weimar Republic, Naziism, World War II and its aftermath, and eventual reunification. Its durability cannot be doubted.

Today, the Bismarck Model serves as the predominant means of guaranteeing universal coverage in Europe, used in Germany, France, Switzerland, Belgium, Netherlands, and others. (Japan is also a Bismarck Model country.) The implementation varies, but all mandate insurance in one form or another. In Germany, for example, employers and employees jointly fund insurance via withholding; in Switzerland, individuals purchase their own policies._


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 2, 2019)

JoeB131 said:


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/—-/ Nice try, but Hitler was the the one who is credited as the father of universal healthcare, ADOLPH HITLER: The Real Father of Universal Health Care


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## Polishprince (Aug 2, 2019)

Mac1958 said:


> Invoking Hitler in any conversation, comparing that monster to Americans, is intellectually dishonest, intellectually lazy, ignorant, obtuse, or some combination therein.
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> Not to mention being an insult to MILLIONS who REALLY suffered, and those who still do.
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Tell that to the Liberals who started this ball rolling by referring to Romney, McCain and Dubya as all "Literally Hitler".

W was specifically targeted as a Nazi because of property that his grandfather owned in Germany when war broke out between America and Germany in 1941


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## Mac1958 (Aug 2, 2019)

Polishprince said:


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I tell it to both ends, neither of whom have either the balls or the maturity to  stop.
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## Polishprince (Aug 2, 2019)

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Fair enough.   But remember that Donald J. Trump is strictly a counter puncher.

If the libs quit with this kind of vitriol, they won't have to worry about any return fire.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Aug 2, 2019)

Thinker101 said:


> Democrats/liberals seem to be gung ho on universal healthcare these days.  Ever wonder where that concept originated?
> 
> ADOLPH HITLER: The Real Father of Universal Health Care



They are trying to emulate Canada where the people with serious issues flock to the US for treatment


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## Polishprince (Aug 2, 2019)

AzogtheDefiler said:


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The worst proposal out there that some libs are supporting is to not only actually outlaw not only private health insurance, but to outlaw private contracts for medical treatments.   This would force US citizens abroad for competent treatments, unless they are in the Inner Party or other high positions.  The rest of us would be shit out of luck, if we actually were in need of treatment from a doctor who knows English or knows your ass from a hole in the ground.


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## Flopper (Aug 2, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


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Oh yes, bureaucrats, a favorite scapegoat for those that don't understand the real causes a problem.  The fact is healthcare cost are high for a number of reasons as explained in the link below.
6 Reasons Healthcare Is So Expensive in the U.S.

You're talking about the increase in of out of pocket expenses for insurance and healthcare services.  That is not the same as the increase in the cost of healthcare. 

There are 3 entities that pay for healthcare and insurance bills, you, government, and your employer if you have one.  Employers began shifting healthcare costs more to employees in the 1990's which accelerated with Obamacare. 

Government spending has certainly increased but those increases have basically been for increased coverage and covering more people, not rising costs of healthcare.

If congress had passed the ACA as introduced, we would be arguing about the taxes, not how much we're spending on healthcare because the ACA as introduced would have paid for almost all the increases in cost of Obamacare.  What Americans care about is not the cost of healthcare but their insurance premiums, deductibles, and copay.


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## Polishprince (Aug 2, 2019)

Flopper said:


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If Obamacare is the panacea that you suggest, why aren't most of the Democrat candidates advocating for the ACA as introduced- instead of Medicare for All or Public Options?

What I've heard is that the ACA was actually designed to be a failure, to open up the door for more extremist measures.


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## JoeB131 (Aug 2, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


> /—-/ Nice try, but Hitler was the the one who is credited as the father of universal healthcare,



Credited by whom? Nuts who can't come up with any better arguments than inventing a Godwin. 

Let's try this one.  "Hitler was a vegetarian, so I refuse to eat my broccoli!"


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## Polishprince (Aug 2, 2019)

JoeB131 said:


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Hitler's love of Socialized Medicine is a historical fact, Joe.

Were you aware that Dr. Joe Mengele was a physician with the German Hitlercare Program?

And were you aware that even though Hitler was the author of this program that he inflicted on the Germans, he didn't use it himself?   Instead, he employed Dr. Theodor Morell- a private physician- for his own needs.  Morell was considered by his peers to be a tremendous doctor and BTW , was not part of the German government and NOT a war criminal.

Hitler was a typical lib,a total hypocrite.


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## Rocko (Aug 2, 2019)

None of the democrat proposals for universal healthcare have any plausible baselines. They’re lying to us, and they know they are.


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## Polishprince (Aug 2, 2019)

Rocko said:


> None of the democrat proposals for universal healthcare have any plausible baselines. They’re lying to us, and they know they are.




I think you're right.  If the D's were to get in, I think they'll just do what they want to do at the time, and just call it a "mandate".

Nothing they have supposedly planned is viable in the least.  

For sure, however, the D's will raise taxes and will increase the deficit- as they suddenly forget their deficit hawk stance of 2019.


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## Flopper (Aug 2, 2019)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Thinker101 said:
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Before you start criticizing, maybe you should learn something about it.


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## Wry Catcher (Aug 2, 2019)

Thinker101 said:


> Democrats/liberals seem to be gung ho on universal healthcare these days.  Ever wonder where that concept originated?
> 
> ADOLPH HITLER: The Real Father of Universal Health Care



Did it come with_ showers?
_
What is wrong with universal Health Care?


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## Wry Catcher (Aug 2, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


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Bullshit ^^^


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## Wry Catcher (Aug 2, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


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Credited by who, you?


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## Wry Catcher (Aug 2, 2019)

Polishprince said:


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LOL Trump is a counter-puncher?  He's a Bully, a coward who hits and runs.


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 2, 2019)

Flopper said:


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/—-/ That’s why Canadians come to New York for operations,


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## Wry Catcher (Aug 2, 2019)

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How many?  I'm sure you don't know, you are one of the many who echoes memes which are nothing more than digested propaganda you've eat.


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## Thinker101 (Aug 2, 2019)

Wry Catcher said:


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And how much are you willing to pay for Universal Health Care?


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## AzogtheDefiler (Aug 2, 2019)

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Google is your friend


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## AzogtheDefiler (Aug 2, 2019)

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You hypocrite


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## Polishprince (Aug 2, 2019)

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Those who CARE about the care they receive do.

And they come from further than that. 

Mick Jagger had his heart operation in New York instead of England where it would be free.

Because he gives a shit about his health


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## Thinker101 (Aug 2, 2019)

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63,000 Canadians left the country for medical treatment last year: Fraser Institute

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-co...dians-increasingly-come-to-us-for-health-care


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## AzogtheDefiler (Aug 2, 2019)

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Thank you, sir


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## Wry Catcher (Aug 2, 2019)

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CTVNews.ca Staff 
Published Sunday, July 2, 2017 10:11PM EDT 

"A new report from the Fraser Institute estimates that more than 63,000 Canadians travelled abroad for medical care in 2016.

"The think-tank says that's a nearly 40-per-cent increase over the previous year, and may be related to long wait times for medical procedures in Canada. *But one professor warns the data is based only on estimates, making it highly questionable.

Your second link is worth reading, though it is too long for the willfully ignorant (those who only read the headline).  At the end of the link, the top five best health care systems are Switzerland, Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Canada.*


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 2, 2019)

Wry Catcher said:


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/—-/ Why would any go abroad? Why isn’t everyone flocking to Canada for surgery?


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## Thinker101 (Aug 2, 2019)

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So you jump on the line about *one *professor..."granted the data is based on estimates", but the amazing thing is you don't know much higher it is, dumbass.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Aug 2, 2019)

Wry Catcher said:


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Yet their sick people come here. Go figure.


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## Polishprince (Aug 2, 2019)

AzogtheDefiler said:


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Not just their sick people, but their quality doctors as well.  My ophthalmologist is an immigrant from the Great White North, a graduate of McGill.

Really, medical freedom helps both doctors and patients.


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## Wry Catcher (Aug 2, 2019)

AzogtheDefiler said:


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Half-truth.  Very likely the wealthy come here, not the hoi polloi.


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## Polishprince (Aug 2, 2019)

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In other words, in Canada and other socialized medicine "paradises" , the poor are screwed.   They are stuck in a line waiting for treatment


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 3, 2019)

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/—-/“Very likely” 
So you’re guessing.


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## JoeB131 (Aug 3, 2019)

Polishprince said:


> Hitler's love of Socialized Medicine is a historical fact, Joe.



Germany had socialized medicine before Hitler was born.   



Polishprince said:


> And were you aware that even though Hitler was the author of this program that he inflicted on the Germans, he didn't use it himself? Instead, he employed Dr. Theodor Morell- a private physician- for his own needs. Morell was considered by his peers to be a tremendous doctor and BTW , was not part of the German government and NOT a war criminal.



Uh, Morell was a quack who got Hitler addicted to drugs...  which probably made him crazier than he already was.  

How many Poles does it take to fuck up history? Apparently just one.  

AH, I miss Polish Jokes... they were so much fun in my youth.


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## JoeB131 (Aug 3, 2019)

Polishprince said:


> In other words, in Canada and other socialized medicine "paradises" , the poor are screwed. They are stuck in a line waiting for treatment



Which means they can actually GET treatment, unlike this country..


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 3, 2019)

JoeB131 said:


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/——/ Ahhh you funny little girlie man with your Strawman arguments. Can an Uninsured Patient Be Denied Emergency Treatment?


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## JoeB131 (Aug 3, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


> /——/ Ahhh you funny little girlie man with your Strawman arguments. Can an Uninsured Patient Be Denied Emergency Treatment?



most medical needs are not an emergency... and a lot of people without insurance won't go to an emergency room and rack up thousands of dollars in debt for minor problems.. IT's why the cold that could have been treated for $100 doesn't get taken care of until it's a $2000 case of full pneumonia in an emergency room.


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 3, 2019)

JoeB131 said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> > /——/ Ahhh you funny little girlie man with your Strawman arguments. Can an Uninsured Patient Be Denied Emergency Treatment?
> ...


/—-/ There is no treatment for the common cold you moron. All you can do is treat the symptoms with OTC meds, and store brands are cheaper than any doctor visit. Batter up— next rant.


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## Dekster (Aug 3, 2019)

JoeB131 said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> > /——/ Ahhh you funny little girlie man with your Strawman arguments. Can an Uninsured Patient Be Denied Emergency Treatment?
> ...



$2K for an emergency room visit LOL.  You funny.  Last I went with a stomach virus, the before insurance cost was over $12K and my out of pockets on that were over $2K--a little under $2,500.00 as it was my first treatment for the year and I had my annual deductible to cover.

My uninsured cousin recently went after waking up with a swollen and painful eye.  They had no eye doc on duty so they shipped his arse by ambulance off to a level 1 trauma center all for a case of pink eye.  I told him he can pretty much forget ever buying a house in this area because it will have so many liens on it before it is over he would just be renting it in the end.


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## JoeB131 (Aug 3, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


> /—-/ There is no treatment for the common cold you moron. All you can do is treat the symptoms with OTC meds, and store brands are cheaper than any doctor visit. Batter up— next rant.



Uh, usually, when I get a cold that doesn't go away in a week (like the instructions on the OTC meds say), i see a doctor.  

If you are poor, and that cold doesn't go away, you wait until it flairs up into bronchitis or pneumonia, and then show up at the ER to treat it at 20 times the cost of a doctor's visit.


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## JoeB131 (Aug 3, 2019)

Dekster said:


> $2K for an emergency room visit LOL. You funny. Last I went with a stomach virus, the before insurance cost was over $12K and my out of pockets on that were over $2K--a little under $2,500.00 as it was my first treatment for the year and I had my annual deductible to cover.
> 
> My uninsured cousin recently went after waking up with a swollen and painful eye. They had no eye doc on duty so they shipped his arse by ambulance off to a level 1 trauma center all for a case of pink eye. I told him he can pretty much forget ever buying a house in this area because it will have so many liens on it before it is over he would just be renting it in the end.



I think you are reinforcing my point.  The system we have of million of uninsured using ER's for basic treatments make it a lot more expensive. 

The problem is, that hospital might put on liens your cousin will never pay, but the expenses will be spread out to those who can, which is why the hospital charged my insurance companies $100 for an aspirin after a surgery.


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## Polishprince (Aug 3, 2019)

JoeB131 said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> > /—-/ There is no treatment for the common cold you moron. All you can do is treat the symptoms with OTC meds, and store brands are cheaper than any doctor visit. Batter up— next rant.
> ...




A lot of the old school people didn't believe in going to the doctor at all.   My grandfather came to America as a teen in 1908, and NEVER went to a doctor for 60 years.  He wasn't feeling well for a while in his old age, and he finally broke down and called a doctor.

He was dead within a fortnight,  it seems as if he was right.


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## Polishprince (Aug 3, 2019)

JoeB131 said:


> Dekster said:
> 
> 
> > $2K for an emergency room visit LOL. You funny. Last I went with a stomach virus, the before insurance cost was over $12K and my out of pockets on that were over $2K--a little under $2,500.00 as it was my first treatment for the year and I had my annual deductible to cover.
> ...




I can appreciate the fact that indigent individuals and others living in destitution might be unable to afford needed medical treatment.

But that is no reason to force Socialized Medicine on the vast majority of Americans who don't have this problem.

Instead, help for the poor, from private charities as well as public county charity hospitals for the indigent can and should be developed more, if this problem is expanding.     No need to annoy, inconvenience or even kill the vast majority of Americans who deal with their own health care expenses.


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## Dekster (Aug 3, 2019)

JoeB131 said:


> Dekster said:
> 
> 
> > $2K for an emergency room visit LOL. You funny. Last I went with a stomach virus, the before insurance cost was over $12K and my out of pockets on that were over $2K--a little under $2,500.00 as it was my first treatment for the year and I had my annual deductible to cover.
> ...



And how much of that did your insurance actually pay--$5?  The problem isn't that they are treating the uninsured.  The problem is that the system is racketeering when I have to pay more a month for our health insurance than I do our mortgage because if not they will take everything I own because of their inflated prices for the uninsured that are outrageously high just to force people to buy insurance to begin with because it is more economically efficient for them than having a collections department etc.  It is also why they are so quick to turn the accounts over to collection--it costs them money to have to deal with it, but the collections companies cost them nothing.


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## debbiedowner (Aug 3, 2019)

Dekster said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Cellblock2429 said:
> ...



My last visit was a little over $16,000.


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## JoeB131 (Aug 3, 2019)

Polishprince said:


> I can appreciate the fact that indigent individuals and others living in destitution might be unable to afford needed medical treatment.
> 
> But that is no reason to force Socialized Medicine on the vast majority of Americans who don't have this problem.
> 
> Instead, help for the poor, from private charities as well as public county charity hospitals for the indigent can and should be developed more, if this problem is expanding. No need to annoy, inconvenience or even kill the vast majority of Americans who deal with their own health care expenses.



Okay, let's look at that, Pre- ACA, we had 43 million Americans with no insurance, and 25 million with inadequate insurance


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## Polishprince (Aug 3, 2019)

JoeB131 said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> > I can appreciate the fact that indigent individuals and others living in destitution might be unable to afford needed medical treatment.
> ...




Many of those 43 million didn't want insurance, because they didn't want to pay.

Its still a free country.

I'm just referring to those who need health CARE, but are indigent.

The people who you claim to be concerned about. 

BTW, if someone doesn't have health insurance, and doesn't have health care expenses- or at least those they aren't paying-  what difference should it make to anyone?   My grandfather went without medical insurance, although he was covered by medicare when they finally persuaded him to go to the hospital.   But he diid not need it.


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## Dekster (Aug 3, 2019)

JoeB131 said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> > I can appreciate the fact that indigent individuals and others living in destitution might be unable to afford needed medical treatment.
> ...



Most of those bronze plans look a hell of a lot like "inadequate insurance" to me.  Poor people buying them because that was the best they could do were not going to be spared by $8K ramps.  They could have just expanded medicaid, paid for it, and been done with it without all the sweetheart deals and political pandering.


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 3, 2019)

JoeB131 said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> > /—-/ There is no treatment for the common cold you moron. All you can do is treat the symptoms with OTC meds, and store brands are cheaper than any doctor visit. Batter up— next rant.
> ...


/----/ Walk in Doc in a Box - they are all over.  Yes, you need to pay for your own healthcare as I pay for mine.
MinuteClinic


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## Polishprince (Aug 3, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Cellblock2429 said:
> ...




I've been to Med Express- not real recently- and its a lot more convenient, less expensive and intrusive than an ER.   You just have to pay.


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## JoeB131 (Aug 3, 2019)

Polishprince said:


> Many of those 43 million didn't want insurance, because they didn't want to pay.
> 
> Its still a free country.
> 
> ...



The problem is, when one of those people who "didn't want it" got sick or injured, and had to go to the hospital, the rest of us end up paying. So, yeah, it does make a difference.  

Of course, the real problem is that big insurance is in it for a profit, and they subscribe to the First Rule of Acquisition






"Once you've got their money, you never give it back!"  

Trust me, you've never had to wrestle with an insurance company to get them to pay for something.   And before you blurt out, "The government is just as bad", no, it really isn't.


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 3, 2019)

JoeB131 said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> > Many of those 43 million didn't want insurance, because they didn't want to pay.
> ...


/---/ I had an operation in 1973. I didn't have insurance at the age of 22. So I asked the hospital and Dr to bill me and I'd make monthly payments to pay it off. I picked up part-time work on the weekend and paid everyone within a year.  It's called taking personal responsibility.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Aug 3, 2019)

Wry Catcher said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Wry Catcher said:
> ...



Define “wealthy”?


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## AzogtheDefiler (Aug 3, 2019)

JoeB131 said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> > Hitler's love of Socialized Medicine is a historical fact, Joe.
> ...



Your youth was in the 1800s.


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## Polishprince (Aug 3, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Polishprince said:
> ...





There are all kinds of uncovered expenses out there that people deal with.  I was reading the story about songstress Cardi B, who was plagued with the problem of an undersized caboose.       She was able to find someone to give her injections to resolve the problem, but she paid in cash and dealt with it like an adult.


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## Polishprince (Aug 3, 2019)

JoeB131 said:


> Uh, Morell was a quack who got Hitler addicted to drugs...  which probably made him crazier than he already was.
> .




Dr. Morell was a highly sought after, and highly paid private physicians.

A lot of the National Socialists who went to the gallows for crimes against humanity didn't like him.  

I can't say how tremendous or untremendous a doctor he was  as Morell was dead before my time.


But my point isn't on how actually fantastic his medical practice was, but how he was perceived and the fact that the devoted Socialist Hitler wouldn't trust his OWN health to Hitlercare.

You see the same thing with Hugo Chavez, the Castro boys and other socialists too.


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## JoeB131 (Aug 4, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


> /---/ I had an operation in 1973. I didn't have insurance at the age of 22. So I asked the hospital and Dr to bill me and I'd make monthly payments to pay it off. I picked up part-time work on the weekend and paid everyone within a year. It's called taking personal responsibility.



Yeah, good luck with that today. 

Today, they wouldn't even do that operation if you don't have insurance.


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## Flopper (Aug 5, 2019)

Polishprince said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


The poor are screwed in the US now.  Wait times to see specialists under Medicaid can easy run 6 months or more.  Doctors tell patients they can't take any more new Medicaid patients at this time and it doesn't matter how serious the illness or how sick you are.

The success of single payer depends on how much money the country wants to spend on healthcare.   Canada purposely keeps utilization rates high to keep costs down.  That mean long waits times for some specialized care.

However, unlike the US, Canada does use a triage system in which the most serious cases get shorter wait times.  We solve that problem in the US with those majestic words, "cash payment".


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## Polishprince (Aug 5, 2019)

Flopper said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> > Wry Catcher said:
> ...




The government doesn't pay much to physicians to treat Medicaid patients you know. Its basically a charity for doctors to treat these patients, as they lose money or break even at best. And considering the fact that the number of Medicaid patients has expanded exponentially under the ACA, that's what you would expect.

But I'm surprised you've given up on O-Care so quickly.  Why can't the libs support perhaps the idea of tweaking the program instead of shit canning it for Medicare for All.


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## gipper (Aug 5, 2019)

Flopper said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> > jasonnfree said:
> ...


In the richest nation the world has ever seen, we can’t have healthcare for all like much of the rest of the world. Somehow they make work, but we can’t.

Medicare for all would be cheaper than the shitshow we have now, but those big corporations wouldn’t be flush with cash to buy off the politicians. So, no go. Sorry. We Americans must protect the extraordinarily wealthy first and foremost.


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## Wry Catcher (Aug 5, 2019)

Polishprince said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > Polishprince said:
> ...



The details are way too complicated to discuss here.  The premise on the left, is everyone ought to receive affordable preventative health care; the premise on the right is, health care ought to be a free market enterprise.


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## Flopper (Aug 5, 2019)

Polishprince said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > Polishprince said:
> ...


You can not just shit can Obamacare.  The party that tries won't be in power very long because it is too deeply ingrained in our healthcare system.

What I favor is increasing goverment healthcare subsidies to bring down deductibles and premiums and at the same time beginning a slow transition to Medicare by gradually lowering the age requirement.  This would move the most expensive people to insure to Medicare pushing insurance rates down.  Within about 20 years, the health insurance risk pools would contain mostly young low risk customers.  What we call healthcare plans today would become real insurance in which customers would pay relatively small premiums to insure against major medical emergencies.  That's how health insurance use to work. 

We could stop lower the Medicare edibility age at any point leaving the younger workers in insurance pools.


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## gipper (Aug 5, 2019)

Flopper said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> > Flopper said:
> ...


Fuck that. Medicare for all is the best approach. If the rest of the civilized world can do it, why not the richest nation the world has ever seen?

HC in our nation is a fucking scam. It isn’t very effective, yet it is the most expensive in the world. It does greatly enrich the 1%.


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 5, 2019)

gipper said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > Cellblock2429 said:
> ...


/—-/  How thick can you be? They do it because the US supplies their national defense you dolt. As the president pushes them to pay their fair share of NATO expect those freebies to shrink drastically.


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 5, 2019)

gipper said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > Polishprince said:
> ...


/—-/ Talk about scams... Hey folks this is what the Progs have in mind for you: Socialized Medicine: A Dose of Reality


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## gipper (Aug 5, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Flopper said:
> ...


Fuck that too. We need to bring all our hired killers home. Mind our own business. Then turn the pentagon into affordable housing, terminate the CIA, NSA, NATO, ETC....

Please read....Koch-Backed Think Tank Finds That “Medicare for All” Would Cut Health Care Spending and Raise Wages. Whoops.


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## Polishprince (Aug 5, 2019)

gipper said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > Polishprince said:
> ...




In actuality, America has superb health care.    Customers can choose the kind of health care they want as well as the price point they want to pay.

People come from all over the world to practice the art of medicine and the allied health sciences here.   Every time you turn on TV, new ailments and new treatments are being discovered and promoted.  Plagues which have scourged mankind have been virtually conquered in America, everything from Polio to ED.

Although Joe Biden was charged by President Obama to cure cancer and that doofus failed.


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 5, 2019)

gipper said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...


/—-/ True, rationed care does cut costs. You’re denied care until you croak.


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## Polishprince (Aug 5, 2019)

gipper said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...




Medicare for All would reduce quality, especially if coupled with the liberal idea of outlawing private pay health care and insurance.


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## gipper (Aug 5, 2019)

Polishprince said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Flopper said:
> ...


Yet our life expectancy is dropping, while costs continue to rise. 

US life expectancy has been declining. Here's why


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## Wry Catcher (Aug 5, 2019)

gipper said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > Polishprince said:
> ...



Agree to an extent.  Before the ACA what you claimed was true.  The effort to make health insurance fair, affordable and available to all is half way to Medicare for all. 

The only Rebuttal of those 1% rs who profited from health insurance before the ACA, and while it was debated was their fear mongering, and claim it was Socialism, or a creeping form of Socialism.

If every citizen is provided affordable preventative health care, we would be dollars ahead in the long run.  Profiteer's don't look into the future, they want their money and as much as they can grab, immediately.


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## gipper (Aug 5, 2019)

Polishprince said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Cellblock2429 said:
> ...


No.


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## Polishprince (Aug 5, 2019)

gipper said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...



I haven't found that to be the case at all.   Most of my relatives have made it past 85, and many into their 90's.


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## gipper (Aug 5, 2019)

Polishprince said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Polishprince said:
> ...


Are you aware of the definition of anecdotal?


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## Thinker101 (Aug 5, 2019)

Flopper said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> > Wry Catcher said:
> ...



Yep, just wait until it's "free" for everyone, that 6 month wait time will become 9 months for *anything*.


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## Flopper (Aug 5, 2019)

gipper said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > Polishprince said:
> ...


What I'm proposing is Medicare for All but a slow implementation in which we can control the rate of transfer.  Sander's plan would probably end up with a long implementation.

Remember whatever plan goes to congress will be a compromise between the House and Senate, between Republicans and Democrats, and of course the president.  The elephant in the room will be big Pharma, the healthcare providers, and insurance companies. A lot of the problems in Obamacare was caused by comprises with rather divergent groups.

The best plan would be a plan that both parties would agree to or at least accept, otherwise with every election there will be an effort to repeal the plan when what is needed is changes to make our healthcare system work as best it can as problems become apparent.


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## Polishprince (Aug 5, 2019)

Wry Catcher said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Flopper said:
> ...





Right now, Medicare Tax is 1.45% for employers, 1.45% for employees, self employed pay both ends.   In addition, recipients pay $135 a month premium for Part B.

How much would it have to be raised to have "Medicare for All"?   Right now only a minority are on Medicare.

Further, Medicare only pays 80% of the UCR, people would still need medigap coverage.


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## Polishprince (Aug 5, 2019)

Flopper said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Flopper said:
> ...




So , you don't think it should be done the same as O'care was?    Where the details were hidden until it was passed?


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## gipper (Aug 5, 2019)

Thinker101 said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > Polishprince said:
> ...


Nothing is free and it won’t be free. 

How can any American think this crazy system works, when 40 million Americans have no insurance? When millions of us could easily go bankrupt, if hit by a terrible disease. When costs have risen exponentially for decades, while life expectancy drops and many Americans are sickly. 

It’s a scam.


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## Thinker101 (Aug 5, 2019)

gipper said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > Flopper said:
> ...



That's true, we've been waiting for these Democrat candidates to divulge just how much *free *costs.


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## gipper (Aug 5, 2019)

Flopper said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Flopper said:
> ...


Again, fuck that. Medicare for all has been proven to be cheaper and much more effective. Just do it.


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## Polishprince (Aug 5, 2019)

gipper said:


> How can any American think this crazy system works, when 40 million Americans have no insurance? When millions of us could easily go bankrupt, if hit by a terrible disease. When costs have risen exponentially for decades, while life expectancy drops and many Americans are sickly.
> 
> It’s a scam.




Everyone gets very sick and dies , if they live long enough.

And people are living longer, a lot longer, here in America.   The number of people making it to their 90's and beyond has gone up exponentially.

More Americans living to age 90 and older; number of nonagenarians tripled over past three decades


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## gipper (Aug 5, 2019)

Thinker101 said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...


When one cocksucker can game the system to attain $150 billion in net worth, I think we have the money.


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## Polishprince (Aug 5, 2019)

gipper said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...




MFA hasn't been enacted yet, how can it be determined "cheaper" or "more effective"?   Just because its liberal promoters say it will be, doesn't mean shit.

I guess it will be great for Medigap insurance agents, the tax collectors.


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## Polishprince (Aug 5, 2019)

gipper said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...



Who "gamed" the system to get $150 B in net worth?

No one I ever heard of.

Bezos may have $150 Billion, but he earned it.  Devised the Amazon system and is in the process of dominating retail or trying to.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Aug 5, 2019)

Wry Catcher said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> > Flopper said:
> ...



Pretty much


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## Thinker101 (Aug 5, 2019)

gipper said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...



Considering the last guesstimate I saw was $32 Trillion, "we" don't have enough money.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Aug 5, 2019)

gipper said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > Flopper said:
> ...



My insurance covers terrible diseases


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## Flopper (Aug 5, 2019)

gipper said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...


If you take a look at the link, you'll see the 3 major causes of the decrease in life span.  All 3 of these causes are associated mostly with younger to middle age adults.

Drug Overdoes which are most common among young to middle age adults
An increase in liver disease which is primarily due to increased alcohol consumption in men age 25 to 34.
Increases in National Suicide Rate with biggest increase in ages 25 to 44.
Although these are healthcare issues, they are also social issues that the healthcare system can not fix on it's on.


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## gipper (Aug 5, 2019)

Polishprince said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...


LMFAO. Bezos is a fucking psychopath. When millions of Americans are suffering this cocksucker could help, but doesn’t.


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## Thinker101 (Aug 5, 2019)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...




Sure hope it's not Obamacare, the deductible is far worse than most terrible diseases.


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## Thinker101 (Aug 5, 2019)

gipper said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...



Alrighty then, next three in line are:

Bill Gates 
Warren Buffett
Mark Zuckerberg 
Which one(s) do you figure are going to help?


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## Polishprince (Aug 5, 2019)

gipper said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...





Bezos actually does help a lot. Provides jobs to many thousands of people, delivers people pills and books and other crap.

He is definitely helping out in his own way.

BTW, I don't care for the character, but he earns an honest living


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## gipper (Aug 5, 2019)

Thinker101 said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Polishprince said:
> ...


Fuck em all. Our system is set up for the wealthy to run it. They know it. Do You?  
Billionaires from George Soros to Abigail Disney are begging to be taxed more


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## gipper (Aug 5, 2019)

Polishprince said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Polishprince said:
> ...


Yeah works his employees to death and pays them shit wages. Good deal.


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## gipper (Aug 5, 2019)

Flopper said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Polishprince said:
> ...


Yeah...and death by doctor is the third leading cause of death. My guess is this is a lie. It likely is the first.


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## Thinker101 (Aug 5, 2019)

gipper said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...



Quit being such an idiot, we know Soros and Buffett owe back taxes...and now for some stupid ass reason you figure they're willing to pay more?


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## gipper (Aug 5, 2019)

Thinker101 said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...


Don’t be stupid. Read the link.


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## Thinker101 (Aug 5, 2019)

gipper said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...


$
And BTW, Soros net worth is $8.3 billion, Buffet net worth is $78.3 billion....way short of the $32 trillion price tag.


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## gipper (Aug 5, 2019)

Thinker101 said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Thinker101 said:
> ...


Means nothing.


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## Flopper (Aug 5, 2019)

Thinker101 said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > Polishprince said:
> ...


That argument is made often, mostly by people that do not utilize healthcare services or their brain a lot.   Theory goes something like this: If we make movies, ice cream, and candy free, their will be huge lines with long waits for these free products.  Thus, the same thing will happen with  healthcare

The difference of course is that people love movies, ice cream, and candy but hate going to doctors, hospitals, and dentists.  They go because they feel they have to go, not because they want to.

Following your line of reason, if we made burials and cremations free, the bodies would be stacked up at funeral homes in order to take advantage of the free service.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Aug 5, 2019)

Flopper said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > Flopper said:
> ...



No. People who are bored, especially the elderly do go because it gives them something to do. My grandmother used to look forward to them and would make needless appointments constantly.


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## Thinker101 (Aug 5, 2019)

Flopper said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > Flopper said:
> ...



No kidding, what a dumbass analogy.


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## Thinker101 (Aug 5, 2019)

Flopper said:


> Thinker101 said:
> 
> 
> > Flopper said:
> ...



Maybe you ought to stop by and visit a County run ER, just to see first hand how expedient they are.


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 5, 2019)

gipper said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...


/——-/ VA with vets committing suicide in the parking lot. Nuff said.


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## Flopper (Aug 5, 2019)

Polishprince said:


> gipper said:
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$2 billion fund to support homeless families and education programs in undeserved communities.


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 5, 2019)

gipper said:


> Polishprince said:
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/—-/ Drugs and gang violence


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## Flopper (Aug 5, 2019)

Thinker101 said:


> Flopper said:
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I think I've visited every damn ER in this county. My experience is wait time in an ER is very short if you have a real life threatening emergency.  The time between the EMS person transferring you to the ER doctor is often only a minute or so.

However, if you use the ER the way many people do, that is your tummy is upset and you have a headache and you don't want to wait two days to see your doctor, then you should plan on a good 8 to 10 hours in the ER. An ER does not work on a first come first serve basis. They triage.  You get a quick evaluation when you check in to determinate if it appears you have a life threaten emergency.  If not they assign an ER room when one's available.  After connecting you up to monitoring, a doctor checks you again to see if your condition appears life threatening.  If not, he orders appropriate diagnostic tests and blood draws. Chances are you want see the the doctor until all tests are in. I've been through this with my wife, my kids, my grand kids, and myself many times.

Just because you wait in an ER a long time is not a sign they are short on personnel.  If an ER provides immediate medical services for everyone that walks in the door, their staff would be twice as large as would their bill.


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## Flopper (Aug 5, 2019)

Thinker101 said:


> Flopper said:
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So you think people will go to the doctor or ER and spend hours sitting  there so they can be poked with needles and be told a lot of stuff they don't want to hear just because there's little or no cost.


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 5, 2019)

Polishprince said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > How can any American think this crazy system works, when 40 million Americans have no insurance? When millions of us could easily go bankrupt, if hit by a terrible disease. When costs have risen exponentially for decades, while life expectancy drops and many Americans are sickly.
> ...


/——/ Everyone who eats English peas dies—— eventually. Just sayin


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## Thinker101 (Aug 5, 2019)

Flopper said:


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Seems to work pretty good for illegals.


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## Wry Catcher (Aug 5, 2019)

Thinker101 said:


> Flopper said:
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Q.  How would he know

A.  Trump told him.


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 6, 2019)

Flopper said:


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/——/ Yes.


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## Thinker101 (Aug 6, 2019)

Wry Catcher said:


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Q. Who would post such a stupid ass comment.

A. You


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## Manonthestreet (Aug 11, 2019)

Aug. 8 (UPI) -- Britain's national healthcare system said Thursday a record 4.4 million Britons are waiting for surgery -- a figure one medical leader called "unacceptable."

New statistics posted by the National Health Service also showed a 16 percent increase of patients who'd waited for more than 18 weeks for non-emergency operations, such as hip or knee replacements.  Record 4.4M Britons waiting for non-urgent surgery, gov't figures show


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## Manonthestreet (Aug 11, 2019)

The following events did not take place in the Soviet Union or Cuba.  None of this inhumanity was a figment of my imagination.  I'm narrating the details without hyperbole.

Recently, I took a ride through one amazingly affordable health care system — the one Obama and other notable Democrats paint as the "envy of the world."  See how quickly you can figure out where this envy of the world dwells.

Got your seat belt on? This liberal utopia is a bit bumpy. https://www.americanthinker.com/art..._care_system_thats_the_envy_of_the_world.html


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## idb (Aug 11, 2019)

Thinker101 said:


> Democrats/liberals seem to be gung ho on universal healthcare these days.  Ever wonder where that concept originated?
> 
> ADOLPH HITLER: The Real Father of Universal Health Care


Hitler also built motorways...I hope you never use those symbols of Fascist oppression.


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## Thinker101 (Aug 11, 2019)

idb said:


> Thinker101 said:
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> > Democrats/liberals seem to be gung ho on universal healthcare these days.  Ever wonder where that concept originated?
> ...



Not to worry, the new Green Deal should be removing that association.


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 11, 2019)

idb said:


> Thinker101 said:
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> > Democrats/liberals seem to be gung ho on universal healthcare these days.  Ever wonder where that concept originated?
> ...


/—-/ Hitler also made the trains run on time. That’s why I ride the Long Island Railroad. It’s never on time.


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## dblack (Aug 12, 2019)

Flopper said:


> Thinker101 said:
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And here's the argument you always hide from when you try to make this point: We don't have enough money to give everyone in the country all the health care they want. That much wealth doesn't even exist. If they're not spending their own money, every single person will be willing to break the bank on health care to save their own ass. That not your "over utilization" horseshit. That's just basic human survival instinct.


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## Flopper (Aug 13, 2019)

Manonthestreet said:


> The following events did not take place in the Soviet Union or Cuba.  None of this inhumanity was a figment of my imagination.  I'm narrating the details without hyperbole.
> 
> Recently, I took a ride through one amazingly affordable health care system — the one Obama and other notable Democrats paint as the "envy of the world."  See how quickly you can figure out where this envy of the world dwells.
> 
> Got your seat belt on? This liberal utopia is a bit bumpy. https://www.americanthinker.com/art..._care_system_thats_the_envy_of_the_world.html


An what other fairly tales do have for us today?


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## debbiedowner (Aug 14, 2019)

Flopper said:


> Manonthestreet said:
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> 
> > The following events did not take place in the Soviet Union or Cuba.  None of this inhumanity was a figment of my imagination.  I'm narrating the details without hyperbole.
> ...



That story brought tears to my eyes from excessive laughter, what a fucking lie.


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## Manonthestreet (Aug 14, 2019)

debbiedowner said:


> Flopper said:
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Truth is always Inconvenient for libs. Obama Admin proclaims they will Gruber the people and libs rejoice.


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## debbiedowner (Aug 14, 2019)

Manonthestreet said:


> debbiedowner said:
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the story was pure fiction, what a dupe.


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 14, 2019)

debbiedowner said:


> Manonthestreet said:
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/---/ Try refuting the claims in the article. Here's another source:
You are being redirected...
More detailed statistics from other sources paint an even grimmer picture. For example, the Fraser Institute’s most recent wait times report finds that wait times (GP to treatment) have almost doubled since 1993. Worse, physicians report that patients generally wait almost three weeks longer than what they consider clinically reasonable (after consultation with a specialist).


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## dblack (Aug 14, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


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You clearly don't follow US politics. The proper response when reality doesn't fit your narrative is mocking laughter. Duh.


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## debbiedowner (Aug 14, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


> debbiedowner said:
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Hey dummy I'm not talking about Canada pay attention and read the article I was replying to.


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## Cellblock2429 (Aug 14, 2019)

debbiedowner said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
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/——/ The first link was the failure of Canadian healthcare and you said  it was pure fiction.


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## debbiedowner (Aug 14, 2019)

Cellblock2429 said:


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Ok asshole I was clearly replying to mano american thinker link.


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## debbiedowner (Aug 14, 2019)

Medicare for all: fears and facts


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## Manonthestreet (Aug 20, 2019)

Unions want no part of this either, thanks for more votes libs


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