# Obama and McCain Debate: Round 2



## Modbert

Round 2 folks, here we go!


----------



## AVG-JOE

With a couple of cold ones at the ready...

 Set...

 GO!

-Joe


----------



## Modbert

McCain making somewhat eye contact with Obama in the opening handshake.

That's more then the whole time last debate.


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## Modbert

AVG-JOE said:


> With a couple of cold ones at the ready...
> 
> Set...
> 
> GO!
> 
> -Joe



Obama I have "Change and Bush" while McCain I have "Experience and Maverick."

Haha


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## Modbert

If Obama shines here tonight, then McCain is cooked like a thanksgiving turkey.


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## Modbert

Well he said Bush once already, if I were drinking that be one for me. Haha


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## AVG-JOE

PEACE!

There's me!!



-Joe


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## Modbert

AVG-JOE said:


> PEACE!
> 
> There's me!!
> 
> 
> 
> -Joe



I'm changing from experience to "my friends" by McCain. I'll be drunk when McCain is done answering his next question.


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## clane1987

Have we not been "reforming" for the last 8 years?


----------



## Modbert

Is it just me or does McCain have a lisp when it comes to his S?

Sounds like he keeps whistling.


----------



## Modbert

2nd highest in history being paid by Frannie & Freddie Mac? I don't believe it's that high.

Though McCain ought to mention how Merrill Lynch is his #1 contributor.


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## Modbert

"This is not the end of the process but the beginning of the process."

Nice line


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## CrimsonWhite

Robert_Santurri said:


> 2nd highest in history being paid by Frannie & Freddie Mac? I don't believe it's that high.
> 
> Though McCain ought to mention how Merrill Lynch is his #1 contributor.



McCain went on the attack first. Not a good move. Obama also looks and sounds good tonight.


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## AVG-JOE

The economy question is a bullshit question - No one can predict the future...

Baddddd journalist Mr Brokaw

-Joe


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## CrimsonWhite

I like McCain's buy out plan for home mortgages.


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## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> McCain went on the attack first. Not a good move. Obama also looks and sounds good tonight.



He does, and McCain can't directly answer a simple question.

Will the economy get better before it gets worse? 

He doesn't want to say better because he did before and then later said this is the worst crisis since "The Great Depression."

McCain took this long for a simple yes or no question.


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## DavidS

Obama is getting nasty. Cut it out, Barrack.


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## CrimsonWhite

Robert_Santurri said:


> He does, and McCain can't directly answer a simple question.
> 
> Will the economy get better before it gets worse?
> 
> He doesn't want to say better because he did before and then later said this is the worst crisis since "The Great Depression."
> 
> McCain took this long for a simple yes or no question.



Loaded question. I would have deflected as well.


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## Modbert

Dubya again, and again. That's #3 for me on that alone! Haha


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## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> Loaded question. I would have deflected as well.



It is a loaded question, but McCain knows that the economy will get worse before it gets better. We've not yet hit rock bottom.


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## CrimsonWhite

There you go, Obama just deflected as well. The question was: how can we trust you with our money?


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## clane1987

Yay! Maverick talk! LOL


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## notomccain

obama is  doing  great!!


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## AVG-JOE

McCain talking points helping anyone?

-J


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## jillian

CrimsonWhite said:


> Loaded question. I would have deflected as well.



you answer it by saying we've only just begun to address the financial mess left by this administration. 

mccain fibbied, too, when he said that he "suspended" his campaign. i'm surprised obama didn't call him on it. but i guess he wants to focus on the issues.


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## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> There you go, Obama just deflected as well. The question was: how can we trust you with our money?



I thought he gave a good answer. Enough blame to go around for everybody, nobody is completely innocent.

It basically comes down to who do you trust more then the other sadly, but that's always been Washington Politics.

Obama I think is staying with McCain so far, which isn't good for McCain since this is what his supporters bragged what Obama couldn't do well.


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## notomccain

i think this  is a great setting  for  obama.


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## Kevin_Kennedy

Obama says he's cutting spending more than adding to it.  Absolute bullshit.


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## CrimsonWhite

notomccain said:


> obama is  doing  great!!



Keep telling yourself that sweety.


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## strollingbones

CrimsonWhite said:


> There you go, Obama just deflected as well. The question was: how can we trust you with our money?




i just got off work and missed a bit of it...so far both seem to be holding their own...why trust any of them with our money?


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## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> There you go, Obama just deflected as well. The question was: how can we trust you with our money?



Meanwhile McCain goes off attacking Obama and earmarks.

Least Obama answered the damn question.

Oh and McCain said "my friends" again. Man, If I were drinking I'd be just about bombed right about now.


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## strollingbones

o bullshit mccain says he knows how to fix the economy and oil crisis...i got to call bullshit on that one


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## chapstic

Robert_Santurri said:


> It is a loaded question, but McCain knows that the economy will get worse before it gets better. We've not yet hit rock bottom.



if the economy is that bad, why is every restaurant i go to completely packed.  the mall of america has +5% earnings over last year.  every ball game i watch is sold out.  if the economy is that bad, why are people spending money?  are they just running up their credit cards? if so, how do you know?


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## jillian

CrimsonWhite said:


> Keep telling yourself that sweety.



Obama is doing great. McCain is holding his own. So far no errors... HE just looks old and tired next to Obama and his sibilent "s" is annoying. lol..


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## Modbert

McCain deflects another question Crimson.

This man says we don't have enough money to fund everything Obama is proposing yet he says we can do all of this at once?


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## strollingbones

o mccain is messing up....workers instead of retirees if he says reaching across the aisle one more time...i will drink


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## DavidS

CrimsonWhite said:


> I like McCain's buy out plan for home mortgages.



Uh, that isn't a new idea. That was part of the rescue plan that they voted for. We're already doing that.


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## Modbert

chapstic said:


> if the economy is that bad, why is every restaurant i go to completely packed.  the mall of america has +5% earnings over last year.  every ball game i watch is sold out.  if the economy is that bad, why are people spending money?  are they just running up their credit cards? if so, how do you know?



Depends on where you live.

In economic crisis, people turn to entertainment to get their minds off the crisis. So things like movies and baseball games will always be sold out.

Mall of America is one mall and restaurants across the nation are being affected over this crisis. The rising cost of food makes it tougher on these businesses.


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## AVG-JOE

I'm thirsty.

I'm switching from 'peace' to 'budget'.

See you in de-tox!

-Joe


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## DavidS

This is the nastiest town hall debate I've ever seen.


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## CrimsonWhite

DavidS said:


> Uh, that isn't a new idea. That was part of the rescue plan that they voted for. We're already doing that.



No we are not. SecTres hasn't executed that policy yet. McCain sad that he would order SecTreas to do it.


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## Modbert

AVG-JOE said:


> I'm thirsty.
> 
> I'm switching from 'peace' to 'budget'.
> 
> See you in de-tox!
> 
> -Joe



Have "my friends" for McCain. Trust me, you won't be thirsty long. Obama said bush again too. I picked some pretty great words.


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## strollingbones

obama is doing good on the priority question....hitting mccain on taxcuts for big companies


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## strollingbones

ooooooooo good question on sacrifices...mccain has on a power tie...now lets look for flag pens


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## Modbert

McCain's always gotten breaks due to his father and of course then he married Cindy.

He's never had to worry about the American Dream being a myth to him.


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## jillian

Robert_Santurri said:


> Depends on where you live.
> 
> In economic crisis, people turn to entertainment to get their minds off the crisis. So things like movies and baseball games will always be sold out.
> 
> Mall of America is one mall and restaurants across the nation are being affected over this crisis. The rising cost of food makes it tougher on these businesses.



you also don't know if +5 is half of what it was last year... 

and you're going by anecdotes...no real figures. so i wouldn't put much stock in it.


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## CrimsonWhite

McCain deflected on sacrifices, let's see what Obama does.


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## clane1987

"taking on" or "take on" will get you done as well as "ear marks"


Its pathetic how McCain is attack, attack, and more attack while Obama is answering the questions with just a few attacks.


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## strollingbones

obama's tie is not a good color and he has a flag pen on.  o across the board freeze...that means no cost of living increase...he just lost florida


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## Modbert

Wait what the hell? McCain just said a couple minutes ago how we can spend on all this stuff at once, now we don't have it/spending freeze?

Somebody fucked up on that logic for his campaign.


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## chapstic

Robert_Santurri said:


> Depends on where you live.
> 
> In economic crisis, people turn to entertainment to get their minds off the crisis. So things like movies and baseball games will always be sold out.
> 
> Mall of America is one mall and restaurants across the nation are being affected over this crisis. The rising cost of food makes it tougher on these businesses.



what a very naive answer, "i have no money so lets spend more to get my mind off it"

i'll tell ya what, if i were in an economic crisis the last thing i'd be doing is spending 5 bucks on a hotdog and 10 bucks on a beer. 


id love to see some proof that other restaurants and other malls are suffering across the nation.


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## sealybobo

Obama will prioritize.  He will also stop spending on Iraq.  Iraq oil should be paying for iraq.  But the gop have us paying $10 billion a month.  Hard to fathum if bush didn't just ask us for $700 bill.

Instead of projectors for schools, mccain want bombs.  No roi.


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## DavidS

CrimsonWhite said:


> No we are not. SecTres hasn't executed that policy yet. McCain sad that he would order SecTreas to do it.



It's law. It was part of the bill. SecTres hasn't had time to get to page 100 yet. The bill was only made law on Friday. Today is Tuesday. The re-negotiation of mortgages was part of the bill that was passed.


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## AVG-JOE

Robert_Santurri said:


> Have "my friends" for McCain. Trust me, you won't be thirsty long. Obama said bush again too. I picked some pretty great words.



O.k. - I'm switching to 'priorities'... give me a minute to chugg this six-pack and catch up!

-J


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## strollingbones

obama is gonna go off on 9/11 and bush's handling of it.  o good comment on "call to service"


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## WillowTree

if he says aaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnna one more time I'm gonna hurl


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## CrimsonWhite

DavidS said:


> It's law. It was part of the bill. SecTres hasn't had time to get to page 100 yet. The bill was only made law on Friday. Today is Tuesday. The re-negotiation of mortgages was part of the bill that was passed.



Should have been on page one. I like that it is a priority of McCain.


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## strollingbones

ahh damn it ...i got beer, wine and scotch...kill me now...there should be vodka somewhere


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## Modbert

chapstic said:


> what a very naive answer, "i have no money so lets spend more to get my mind off it"
> 
> i'll tell ya what, if i were in an economic crisis the last thing i'd be doing is spending 5 bucks on a hotdog and 10 bucks on a beer.
> 
> 
> id love to see some proof that other restaurants and other malls are suffering across the nation.



Naive answer? No

During "The Great Depression", the movie business expanded greatly due to the escape from the rest of the world.

Well I guess since you think so high and mighty of yourself chapstic then I guess you don't have to worry about the economic crisis then?

Wrong link.


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## CrimsonWhite

Obama does look good. This remnds me of old tapes of Kennedy and Nixon.


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## jillian

CrimsonWhite said:


> Obama does look good. This remnds me of old tapes of Kennedy and Nixon.



my husband just said he's making mccain look like a doddering old man. i wouldn't go that far, but I think he seems angry while obama seems much steadier.


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## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> Obama does look good. This remnds me of old tapes of Kennedy and Nixon.



Nixon err McCain is going to start sweating. Though McCain has the same problem as Palin, smiling when talking about scary stuff.


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## DavidS

CrimsonWhite said:


> Should have been on page one. I like that it is a priority of McCain.



Page one was the title of the bill.

Did Obama say it wasn't a priority for him?


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## strollingbones

o good comment about living high on the hog for the upper class...o good comment on hatchet and scaple.  mccain attacks...jello to the wall...mccain is not answering with his attacks...he is using scare tatics with small businesses.  ooooo mccain just looks like an ass now...i dont have a dep child...the tax credit for insurance is totally crap.  you can not get insurance for 5 k a year.  O let him respond tom...come on.


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## Modbert

Tom Brokaw let McCain speak well more over the time limit that is suppose to be set.

"The rules are pretty loose"

Then what was he just told Obama?

Brokaw's logic is not computing here.


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## AVG-JOE

McCains bullshit additional tax deductions and loopholes won't help me any...

How about you all?

-Joe


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## CrimsonWhite

DavidS said:


> Page one was the title of the bill.
> 
> Did Obama say it wasn't a priority for him?



Good God man, All I said was that I liked McCain's statement. Let it go.


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## Modbert

AVG-JOE said:


> McCains bullshit additional tax deductions and loopholes won't help me any...
> 
> How about you all?
> 
> -Joe



Help drive my family and plenty of others like yours into the poor house probably.


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## clane1987

McCain is coming at Obama with a lot of misleading facts to try and contradict what Obama has said.


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## sealybobo

mccain's one liners are lame and so is his game.  Poor grampa.  

All these tax breaks and $10 billion a month in iraq?  Really?  And possibly iran if mccain wins?

Do you guys realize mccain is in fairytale land?  He sounds like he's telling a story to kids from mother goose.


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## strollingbones

chapstic said:


> what a very naive answer, "i have no money so lets spend more to get my mind off it"
> 
> i'll tell ya what, if i were in an economic crisis the last thing i'd be doing is spending 5 bucks on a hotdog and 10 bucks on a beer.
> 
> 
> id love to see some proof that other restaurants and other malls are suffering across the nation.



i consider myself a foodie and a shopper.  I like sales etc.  I no longer spend my saturdays at the mall.  The last expensive meal i had was for my 55th birthday.  I have cut back spending as much as I can.  there is a high cost to excess.  i can see the cutbacks in the business i work in also.  People are having to choose between groceries, gas and other things.  I see groceries and gas winning.


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## Modbert

"It's not that tough to fix Social Security."

Well gee McCain, where have you been all these years? Why haven't you proposed solutions then if it's not that tough?


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## strollingbones

Robert_Santurri said:


> Help drive my family and plenty of others like yours into the poor house probably.



you wont be able to afford to drive....you must walk to the poor house.


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## sealybobo

clane1987 said:


> McCain is coming at Obama with a lot of misleading facts to try and contradict what Obama has said.



That's what republicans do.  Now you gotta answer the question and defend yourself against their bullshit.  As long as you see mccain is not coming off well.


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## Modbert

strollingbones said:


> you wont be able to afford to drive....you must walk to the poor house.



That's if they don't take our legs.

Well McCain, your buddy Sawwah Palin doesn't believe that Global Warming is man made. So I guess it's okay to keep throwing toxic waste into our rivers because it doesn't do anything. Right?


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## CrimsonWhite

Point to McCain on the Obama Middle class tax cut that was never proposed.


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## DavidS

The gloves ARE off. I wonder if they were OJ's.


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## strollingbones

mccain is now sounding too rehearsed.


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## Modbert

Obama doesn't want companies that outsource their jobs to other countries to get tax cuts. 

Obama has made plenty of proposals for Alternative Energy. Obama has also talked about safe nuclear power.


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## CrimsonWhite

Point to Obama on energy policy. I do like his energy plan.


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## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> Point to Obama on energy policy. I do like his energy plan.



Nuclear Energy will not be the only thing in his plan which I like. We need to focus on things like Solar, Wind, etc.


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## strollingbones

slam on 26 yrs and the 23 times against alternative fuels....good points there.


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## AVG-JOE

strollingbones said:


> o good comment about living high on the hog for the upper class...o good comment on hatchet and scaple.  mccain attacks...jello to the wall...mccain is not answering with his attacks...he is using scare tatics with small businesses.  ooooo mccain just looks like an ass now...i dont have a dep child...the tax credit for insurance is totally crap.  you can not get insurance for 5 k a year.  O let him respond tom...come on.



Yup!

-J


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## CrimsonWhite

strollingbones said:


> mccain is now sounding too rehearsed.



That's a sign of a good speaker. You have been listening to Bush for 8 years so you have forgotten what a good speaker sounds like.


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## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> That's a sgn of a good speaker. You have been listening to Bush for 8 years so you have forgotten what a good speaker sounds like.



Repeating talk points is only good to a extent.

If McCain says "my friends" one more time, I'm posting the video "Why can't we be friends".

McCain goes back to earmarks, this is not earmarks.


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## AVG-JOE

Now that's a good question, Tom!

(Manhattan Project -vs- Silicon Valley)

-Joe


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## CrimsonWhite

McCain just got him on the Bush energy bill. This is nasty.


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## kane3o1

Obama is such a classy individual. He's just like a regular nice guy you would see in the streets.


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## Modbert

I want to see McCain bring up his health plan here. So perhaps Obama can slam him on the fact he wants to tax your $5,000 health care credit.


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## strollingbones

CrimsonWhite said:


> That's a sign of a good speaker. You have been listening to Bush for 8 years so you have forgotten what a good speaker sounds like.




actually when i took public speaking...it was not a good sign for a debater.
obama is the better public speaker.  i dont think anyone will argue that.
unfortunately this is what passes for debate in this country now, when in reality its nothing more than "pagent" answers.


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## AVG-JOE

The 'health care as a commodity' chic is a wet dream for Obama!

What a great lead in question!

-J


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## Modbert

strollingbones said:


> actually when i took public speaking...it was not a good sign for a debater.
> obama is the better public speaker.  i dont think anyone will argue that.
> unfortunately this is what passes for debate in this country now, when in reality its nothing more than "pagent" answers.



A good sign of a debater is being able to speak off the cuff and on the fly without rehearsed answers.


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## Modbert

Health records online? So what if a hacker gets ahold of the system?

Everyone health records then go on the internet to the highest bid and such. Lovely idea McCain.


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## jillian

CrimsonWhite said:


> That's a sign of a good speaker. You have been listening to Bush for 8 years so you have forgotten what a good speaker sounds like.



I disagree. The best lawyers I know are the ones who listen to what's being said and modify their approach accordingly. Being a good listener is at least as important as being a good speaker.


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## kane3o1

McCain polls are declining...lol


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## CrimsonWhite

Robert_Santurri said:


> A good sign of a debater is being able to speak off the cuff and on the fly without rehearsed answers.



Bullshit as an attorney, my job is to debate. I never go to work without prearranged answers to every possible question.


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## AVG-JOE

Did a republican actually use the phrase 'impose efficiency' in a presidential campaign?

What planet did I land on this week?

-Joe


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## Modbert

He brings up his plan!

Liar!

He doesn't bring up how he's going to tax your credit.


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## Gem

Brokaw needs to rein in the time issue...


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## MichaelCollins

McCain has said "my friends"  876 times so far.

He is a really friendly guy..

You are his friend.


----------



## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> Bullshit as an attorney, my job is to debate. I never go to work without prearranged answers to every possible question.



What Jillian said and this is debating/politics.

Being a attorney is telling a jury of twelve why you think you should win with rehearsed answers. Being a lawyer is different then being a debater.

I've been on a debate team for three years now in high school, Varsity does not have rehearsed case topics when we debate in a tournament. We speak off the cuff, with our extensive knowledge on a subject if we have any and don't know what we are debating ahead of time as opposition.

Government team will write out the case FIFTEEN MINUTES before the round, so there is little to no time to practice that case to each other.


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## Jon

I'm not watching the debate, but it's fun to watch the Obamabots here agree with everything Obama says and disagree with everything McCain says. Then you have nonpartisans like CrimsonWhite actually giving a play-by-play of who does well on what. Props to him.

The rest of you are sad.


----------



## CrimsonWhite

Robert_Santurri said:


> What Jillian said and this is debating/politics.
> 
> Being a attorney is telling a jury of twelve why you think you should win with rehearsed answers. Being a lawyer is different then being a debater.
> 
> I've been on a debate team for three years now in high school, Varsity does not have rehearsed case topics when we debate in a tournament.



I don't argue in front of juries.


----------



## jillian

Gem said:


> Brokaw needs to rein in the time issue...



he tried... obama got a little pissy about it. but seems calmed down now.


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## sealybobo

Pretty funny crack about hairplugs John.  Why did you call your wife a **** when she joked about your thinning hair?  Do you call all women that?  You call all asians gooks. 

Sorry, that's what came to mind.


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## Gem

Obama:  Health care is a _right_ for all Americans.

This is a big statement, in my opinion.


----------



## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> I don't argue in front of juries.



Then in front of who then? A judge?

The point I'm trying to make is you argue in front of somebody with rehearsed answers for questions you knew ahead of time. That's not a debate.


----------



## Jon

Gem said:


> Obama:  Health care is a _right_ for all Americans.
> 
> This is a big statement, in my opinion.



He's right, health CARE is a right. Health insurance is not.


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## kane3o1

DAMN, look @ the lines @ the bottom for Obama! It's through the roof...lol


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## Modbert

Gem said:


> Obama:  Health care is a _right_ for all Americans.
> 
> This is a big statement, in my opinion.



Well hell bells, the UN doesn't even believe water is a right for everybody in the world.

I agree that is a big statement to make, and I believe he is right.


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## sealybobo

Let me guess the big story tomorrow.  The size of the fine.


----------



## AVG-JOE

MichaelCollins said:


> McCain has said "my friends"  876 times so far.
> 
> He is a really friendly guy..
> 
> You are his friend.



Nice to see you Mikey!

You're up late over in London... What's your drinkin' word tonight?  

-Joe


----------



## MichaelCollins

That is the funniest thing that i have ever heard...

US peacemakers!  lmao!

US only ever acts militarily out of the interest of a small group of people.

US have committed more acts of genocide... vietnam, cambodia, Iraq etc.. than any nation in history..


----------



## Modbert

His judgement? He's switched so many of his policies over the years.

It'd be great to figure out if he has great judgement if he actually stuck to one side of the issue.


----------



## Gem

> Well hell bells, the UN doesn't even believe water is a right for everybody in the world.
> 
> I agree that is a big statement to make, and I believe he is right.



The question then becomes however, whose responsibility is it to provide the healthcare...and what responsibilities do those who have this right to healthcare have in return?


----------



## strollingbones

oooo wrong about iraq and the surge...oooooooo the hit on "on the job" training..bitchslap him obama


----------



## CrimsonWhite

Robert_Santurri said:


> Then in front of who then? A judge?
> 
> The point I'm trying to make is you argue in front of somebody with rehearsed answers for questions you knew ahead of time. That's not a debate.



I don't know the questions ahead of time. I anticipate. Every case has a predictable set of questions. When I haven't got answer, I think on my feet. That is what McCain is doing as well. He has mostly rehearsed answers, as does Obama.


----------



## Modbert

Obama hits McCain on the Liberators and the "quick and easy" comment.

Nice point.


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## kane3o1

McCain was cheerleading the president...lol


----------



## jillian

mccain did well on that answer. but obama just got in a good wallop with the comment about mccain cheerleading bush


----------



## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> I don't know the questions ahead of time. I anticipate. Every case has a predictable set of questions. When I haven't got answer, I think on my feet. That is what McCain is doing as well. He has mostly rehearsed answers, as does Obama.



Well of course they have mostly rehearsed answers if they are answering the same questions everyday for months to the same topics.

I'd like to see some topics that never get asked to be brought up but I'm doubtful.


----------



## MichaelCollins

AVG-JOE said:


> Nice to see you Mikey!
> 
> You're up late over in London... What's your drinkin' word tonight?
> 
> -Joe




I decided to go for it tonight... and i have plunged for "my friends".


----------



## DavidS

Gem said:


> Obama:  Health care is a _right_ for all Americans.
> 
> This is a big statement, in my opinion.


----------



## Gem

Absolutely...but it looks a bit silly when compared to his putting his fingers in his ears and screaming "la la la I can't hear you" about the surge.


----------



## Red Dawn

I kind of feel sorry for the old man. 

This is a slaughter.


----------



## Modbert

Gem said:


> The question then becomes however, whose responsibility is it to provide the healthcare...and what responsibilities do those who have this right to healthcare have in return?



And that's what seperates these two. I agree with Obama's plan more then McCain's plan because McCain's plan is very flawed.


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## DavidS

Did McCain suggest a spending freeze at the same time he suggested buying up all mortgages? His age is getting the best of him.


----------



## Modbert

MichaelCollins said:


> I decided to go for it tonight... and i have plunged for "my friends".



Your a brave man to actually be drinking for everytime he says that.

Too bad you'll run out of alcohol first before the debate is over.


----------



## Jon

Robert_Santurri said:


> And that's what seperates these two. I agree with Obama's plan more then McCain's plan because McCain's plan is very flawed.



Both plans are flawed. But at least McCain's plan doesn't have me paying for everyone else's healthcare.


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## strollingbones

i think obama made a good point that americans should be entitled to health care that he and mccain get


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## jillian

Gem said:


> Absolutely...but it looks a bit silly when compared to his putting his fingers in his ears and screaming "la la la I can't hear you" about the surge.



because ultimately, had there been any type of rational judgment about Iraq, there wouldn't have been a need for a "surge". We shouldn't have been there in the first place. And if we DID insist on going in, the "surge" should have been our troop level on day one after entering baghdad.


----------



## Modbert

DavidS said:


> Did McCain suggest a spending freeze at the same time he suggested buying up all mortgages?



He also suggests we can solve Social Security and Energy at the same time.

You can't have a spending freeze and spend money.

Mumbles doesn't get that logic I suppose. But that's coming from the man who thought interest rates being zero was a great idea.


----------



## MichaelCollins

strollingbones said:


> oooo wrong about iraq and the surge...oooooooo the hit on "on the job" training..bitchslap him obama



When is BUSHTARD doing to get his training?


----------



## strollingbones

CrimsonWhite said:


> I don't know the questions ahead of time. I anticipate. Every case has a predictable set of questions. When I haven't got answer, I think on my feet. That is what McCain is doing as well. He has mostly rehearsed answers, as does Obama.



the old saying..dont ask a question you dont know the answer too...comes to mind


----------



## DavidS

Robert_Santurri said:


> He also suggests we can solve Social Security and Energy at the same time.
> 
> You can't have a spending freeze and spend money.
> 
> Mumbles doesn't get that logic I suppose. But that's coming from the man who thought interest rates being zero was a great idea.



McCain is getting slaughtered. This is almost like what I hoped the VP debate to be like last week.

I predict Alabama will become a swing state.


----------



## Jon

jillian said:


> because ultimately, had there been any type of rational judgment about Iraq, there wouldn't have been a need for a "surge". We shouldn't have been there in the first place. And if we DID insist on going in, the "surge" should have been our troop level on day one after entering baghdad.



So your argument (not Obama's, ironically) is that the surge was bad because the war itself was bad?

Horrible logic. We made a mistake. McCain at least supported an idea that helped fix the mistake, instead of sitting around pointing fingers going, "They did it!"


----------



## Red Dawn

jsanders said:


> Both plans are flawed. But at least McCain's plan doesn't have me paying for everyone else's healthcare.



You must still be on your Daddy's health insurance. 

Your Daddy IS paying for the uninsured now.    You think when the uninsured go to the emergency room, its just a freebie?  LOL.  That cost gets passed on to your daddy's insurance premiums. 

If you get the uninsured covered, it ends up costing your daddy less.


----------



## Jon

DavidS said:


> McCain is getting slaughtered. This is almost like what I hoped the VP debate to be like last week.
> 
> I predict Alabama will become a swing state.


----------



## AVG-JOE

MichaelCollins said:


> When is BUSHTARD doing to get his training?



Switch words Mike - you're slurring.  And with that accent it just sounds goofy...

-Joe


----------



## DavidS

1001th time McCain has said "my friends."


----------



## Modbert

jillian said:


> because ultimately, had there been any type of rational judgment about Iraq, there wouldn't have been a need for a "surge". We shouldn't have been there in the first place. And if we DID insist on going in, the "surge" should have been our troop level on day one after entering baghdad.



The US conducted wargames in the late 90's to see how many troops it would take to invade Iraq in case of something like this and how long it would take.

It ended up being around 250,000-280,000 troops and we'd only be there between two and six years.

We never had anything near that number at any point. The surge also only brought troop levels back to where they were the year before.

We also made a mistake in rushing to Baghdad in order to look good and go take down a statue. Meanwhile the terrorists went back to their bunkers and forts that were set up that we ran past without setting up the perimeter correctly.

Bush wanted his "Mission Accomplished" so damn badly that he didn't give a damn about how he got it. The invasion of Iraq despite how wrong it was could of worked if done right.

However, Dubya must of been thinking ahead for all his oil and defense contract friends whom he gave no-bid contracts to.


----------



## Modbert

And this is for you McCain:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DmYLrxR0Y8]YouTube - WAR - WHY CAN'T WE BE FRIENDS[/ame]


----------



## Gem

Jillian Wrote:


> because ultimately, had there been any type of rational judgment about Iraq, there wouldn't have been a need for a "surge". We shouldn't have been there in the first place. And if we DID insist on going in, the "surge" should have been our troop level on day one after entering baghdad.



While mistakes were made in the planning and carrying out of the war in Iraq, it is undeniable that McCain fought for the surge that has brought true hope and a reduction in violence - putting his own candidacy on the line during the primary race.  Obama, on the other hand, ignored the statements of the commanders on the ground and would have gladly lost the war completely, rather than try the surge - which he refused, like a child, to admit was working despite, again, the word from commanders on the ground and even the main-stream media that it was wildly successful.

He practically had to be tied down and beaten before he begrudgingly admitted that it worked.  Not very professional NOR bipartisan.

There was no reason why Obama could not have continued to state that the war should not have been fought the way it was...AND state that the surge was a success.

The fact that he was so incapable of doing so is an indication of his inability and/or unwillingness to give credit to the other side when it might make him look like he had been wrong.  Not a strong character trait in a wannabe president.

For someone like you, Jillian, who has spent the last 8 years angry about a President who made up his mind and then refused to listen to others when they expressed opposing views...I would think that this would trouble you.  Obama ignored people with more information and experience than him - in order to continue to forward his own, incorrect and partisan beliefs.


----------



## Jon

Red Dawn said:


> You must still be on your Daddy's health insurance.
> 
> Your Daddy IS paying for the uninsured now.    You think when the uninsured go to the emergency room, its just a freebie?  LOL.  That cost gets passed on to your daddy's insurance premiums.
> 
> If you get the uninsured covered, it ends up costing your daddy less.



Wow, it's nice when people try to insult someone by stating complete bullshit. I haven't been on my parent's insurance since I was 18 years old. I've had my own health insurance plan since right out of high school. Now, I don't even pay for my health insurance because my company pays for it.

Believe it or not, some uninsured people who go into emergency rooms actually do pay their bills. Believe it or not, not all uninsured people need healthcare. But under Obama's plan, we're going to pay for insurance for all of them. The fact that Obama's plan mostly benefits people who already get government handouts is enough reason for me not to support it. When I was making $20,000 a year, I could afford health insurance. It was expensive, but guess what, I budgeted for it. It's not my fault that not every American understands their own financial burdens.


----------



## DavidS

*The security of your young men and women who are serving in the military are my first priority right after our nation's security.*

What about the economy, John McCain? What about unemployment, John McCain? What about energy, John McCain? GODDAMNIT you embarass the fuck out of the Republican party.


----------



## Modbert

Gem said:


> Jillian Wrote:
> 
> 
> While mistakes were made in the planning and carrying out of the war in Iraq, it is undeniable that McCain fought for the surge that has brought true hope and a reduction in violence - putting his own candidacy on the line during the primary race.  Obama, on the other hand, ignored the statements of the commanders on the ground and would have gladly lost the war completely, rather than try the surge - which he refused, like a child, to admit was working despite, again, the word from commanders on the ground and even the main-stream media that it was wildly successful.
> 
> He practically had to be tied down and beaten before he begrudgingly admitted that it worked.  Not very professional NOR bipartisan.
> 
> There was no reason why Obama could not have continued to state that the war should not have been fought the way it was...AND state that the surge was a success.
> 
> The fact that he was so incapable of doing so is an indication of his inability and/or unwillingness to give credit to the other side when it might make him look like he had been wrong.  Not a strong character trait in a wannabe president.
> 
> For someone like you, Jillian, who has spent the last 8 years angry about a President who made up his mind and then refused to listen to others when they expressed opposing views...I would think that this would trouble you.  Obama ignored people with more information and experience than him - in order to continue to forward his own, incorrect and partisan beliefs.



Yet McCain seems to ignore what his buddy David Petraeus is saying, Afghanistan is the biggest threat. Iraq was never a threat in the first place, but the terrorists in those countries are now even no longer the biggest threat because of the piss poor job we've done in Afghanistan.


----------



## Jon

DavidS said:


> *The security of your young men and women who are serving in the military are my first priority right after our nation's security.*
> 
> What about the economy, John McCain? What about unemployment, John McCain? What about energy, John McCain? GODDAMNIT you embarass the fuck out of the Republican party.



Trust me, those things fall in line where they should. What good is an economy when we have people blowing us up?


----------



## Red Dawn

LMAO!  

"Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran!"


----------



## Toro

Obama just nailed McCain on Pakistan.


----------



## kane3o1

McCain is


----------



## AVG-JOE

Red Dawn said:


> LMAO!
> 
> "Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran!"



Sung to the tune of Barbra Ann - by the Beach Boys...

-Joe


----------



## Red Dawn

Obama is on fire.  

Can y'all imagine poor Sarah Palin answering these questions in a deliberative, intellectual, and articulate way?


----------



## jillian

Gem said:


> For someone like you, Jillian, who has spent the last 8 years angry about a President who made up his mind and then refused to listen to others when they expressed opposing views...I would think that this would trouble you.  Obama ignored people with more information and experience than him - in order to continue to forward his own, incorrect and partisan beliefs.



No. It doesn't particularly trouble me. Because I think that the 'surge' is a mixed thing, myself. I, personally, think of it as "wack-a-mole" Put troops in location a..quell the violence there. move them out of area B... violence goes up. Then we paid off the sectariaan loonies to stop attacking our troops. So, I don't think the characterization of Obama as rigid is accurate. What I do think is that after the last campaign, and the whole BS "he voted for it before he voted against it", someone who wanted the presidency would have a difficult time engaging in a nuanced discussion on the issue. So I don't really fault him.

I find far more fault with someone who thinks judicial review should be done away with. I find far more fault with someone who supported Bush 90% of the time and now has the chutzpa to talk about change. I find far more fault with someone who says we should de-regulate health care after seeing the mess de-regulation made in banking. I find far more fault with someone who won't acknowledge that had anyone listened to him, our social security money would now be in the stock market and worth about 1/4 today of what it would have been worth two weeks ago.

So I guess it's about what tweaks us.


----------



## Modbert

McCain just said Obama is right.

*Watches all the Republicans still supporting McCain flip out*


----------



## strollingbones

Red Dawn said:


> Obama is on fire.
> 
> Can y'all imagine poor Sarah Palin answering these questions in a deliberative, intellectual, and articulate way?




no


----------



## AVG-JOE

Red Dawn said:


> Obama is on fire.
> 
> Can y'all imagine poor Sarah Palin answering these questions in a deliberative, intellectual, and articulate way?



Is that a trick question?  Am I on Candid Camera?

-Joe


----------



## sealybobo

jsanders said:


> He's right, health CARE is a right. Health insurance is not.



omg, shut up.

did you see the meter spike for obama and flatline for mccain?  

good bye ohio.


----------



## Modbert

AVG-JOE said:


> Sung to the tune of Barbra Ann - by the Beach Boys...
> 
> -Joe



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXyhD5yiY6s]YouTube - BOMB BOMB BOMB BOMB IRAN (The John McCain Dance)![/ame]



McCain busting a move.


----------



## Red Dawn

Grandpa, nobody under the age of 50 knows what "KGB apparatchiks" means.


----------



## strollingbones

o the looked into putins eyes comment ...again...


----------



## AVG-JOE

Red Dawn said:


> Grandpa, nobody under the age of 50 knows what "KGB apparatchiks" means.



HEY!!!

I'm only 49 1/2, thank you very much!

-Joe


----------



## Red Dawn

AVG-JOE said:


> Is that a trick question?  Am I on Candid Camera?
> 
> -Joe




I think there would be a lot of winking, and "you betcha!" nonsense, if poor Sarah had to face this kind of forum.


----------



## Modbert

strollingbones said:


> o the looked into putins eyes comment ...again...



McCain looked into Obama's eyes and ---


Oh wait, McCain doesn't look into Obama's eyes so he wouldn't know.


----------



## strollingbones

o good comment on being "reactive" ...  o good question...evil empire shit lol


----------



## jillian

Red Dawn said:


> I think there would be a lot of winking, and "you betcha!" nonsense, if poor Sarah had to face this kind of forum.



she'd just ask herself what a maverick would do. lol..


----------



## Modbert

McCain reminds me of Darth Vader.

He use to be on the Light side and defended the rights of the people.

However, the greed of power was too great and now he is a member of the Dark Side. He sold out everything he use to believe in.

The interesting question is who would be the emperor.


----------



## Gem

So is anyone keeping a tally on how many issues BOTH candidates have listed as "a top priority" for them when they get into office?


----------



## strollingbones

o mccain is playing to the chief petty officier...mccain is not answering the question.


----------



## xsited1




----------



## strollingbones

Gem said:


> So is anyone keeping a tally on how many issues BOTH candidates have listed as "a top priority" for them when they get into office?



no, are you?


----------



## jillian

Is he starting that idiotic "precondition" thing again? sheesh...


----------



## Modbert

"If Iran gets nukes, everybody does"?

How does that logic work out? Iran is being secretive as is, McCain thinks they are going to share their secrets all of a sudden once they make them?

Meanwhile the U.S.A is trying to hide the biggest open secret in the world, Israel not only has nukes but they store some of ours.


----------



## Red Dawn

jillian said:


> she'd Just Ask Herself What A Maverick Would Do. Lol..




Lol


----------



## Modbert

xsited1 said:


>



*Draws the line between the baby and *"God"*

Seperation of Church and State.

If you don't want that, go vote for Chuck Baldwin or McCain.


----------



## strollingbones

we cannot stop iran from getting a nuclear weapon give that chase up.  we already have the possibity of nuclear weapons falling into the hands of terrorist...pay attention obama...pakistan has nukes


----------



## DavidS

jsanders said:


> Trust me, those things fall in line where they should. What good is an economy when we have people blowing us up?



How can we defend ourselves if the state and local governments aren't making enough money to defend themselves and protect themselves against these threats? Their income comes from sales tax and from income tax. If no one's buying anything and no one's making income, the terrorists won't have anything to blow up except a big dust bowl.


----------



## sealybobo

Red Dawn said:


> Obama is on fire.
> 
> Can y'all imagine poor Sarah Palin answering these questions in a deliberative, intellectual, and articulate way?



No.  Obama is schooling a 28 yr veteran.  

oh no, the spikes are going up for mccain now.  Now its back down.  

I was going to say people can sense bullshit but they liked what they heard, but now its evn higher for obama.  whew.  lol


----------



## jillian

Robert_Santurri said:


> "If Iran gets nukes, everybody does"?
> 
> How does that logic work out? Iran is being secretive as is, McCain thinks they are going to share their secrets all of a sudden once they make them?
> 
> Meanwhile the U.S.A is trying to hide the biggest open secret in the world, Israel not only has nukes but they store some of ours.



I give him that one. If Iran gets nukes, so do the fundie terrorists.

Israel wouldn't use them aggressively. They aren't a rogue nation. Nor are they threatening to wipe anyone else off the face of the earth.


----------



## Red Dawn

sealybobo said:


> No.  Obama is schooling a 28 yr veteran.
> 
> oh no, the spikes are going up for mccain now.  Now its back down.
> 
> I was going to say people can sense bullshit but they liked what they heard, but now its evn higher for obama.  whew.  lol




McCain still thinks its 1980. 

That "get government out of the way", and let the free markets decide crap ain't selling.


----------



## strollingbones

last question.... zen like...jeezes tom...o this one should be good


----------



## Modbert

jillian said:


> I give him that one. If Iran gets nukes, so do the fundie terrorists.
> 
> Israel wouldn't use them aggressively. They aren't a rogue nation. Nor are they threatening to wipe anyone else off the face of the earth.



All I know is America has at least 10,300 nukes.

We don't need that many unless we plan on bombing some countries off the face of the earth.


----------



## xsited1

Robert_Santurri said:


> *Draws the line between the baby and *"God"*
> 
> Seperation of Church and State.
> 
> If you don't want that, go vote for Chuck Baldwin or McCain.



Kill a live baby = murder.

Someone who supports that position = murderer.

This is common sense.


----------



## AVG-JOE

What don't you know... Pretty good lead in for a closing statement.

-Joe


----------



## user_name_guest

sealybobo said:


> No.  Obama is schooling a 28 yr veteran.
> 
> oh no, the spikes are going up for mccain now.  Now its back down.
> 
> I was going to say people can sense bullshit but they liked what they heard, but now its evn higher for obama.  whew.  lol



He's good with words.  But let's see if he can turn that into action. He talks about change now, but what evidence of change has he shown since going into Washington.


----------



## strollingbones

xsited1 said:


> Kill a live baby = murder.
> 
> Someone who supports that position = murderer.
> 
> This is common sense.



if abortion was really an issue...why has nothing been done about it by either party?
abortion is a multi million dollar business is why.


----------



## clane1987

McCain's closing statement is kind of lame.


----------



## strollingbones

clane1987 said:


> McCain's closing statement is kind of lame.



he was preaching to the choir...i didnt think it was lame.  it was a pretty good close imho


----------



## user_name_guest

clane1987 said:


> McCain's closing statement is kind of lame.



He is lame. He works in Congress. Last week, they showed the world how lame it is.  Failed economic policies of Bush.  Yet they voted "yes" for another one.  These candidates aren't change agent. Anyone can say words that people want, but most likely will never get.


----------



## AVG-JOE

strollingbones said:


> if abortion was really an issue...why has nothing been done about it by either party?
> abortion is a multi million dollar business is why.



You nailed it Bones.  The greasy wheel gets the squeak around here.

-Joe


----------



## xsited1

strollingbones said:


> if abortion was really an issue...why has nothing been done about it by either party?
> abortion is a multi million dollar business is why.



True.  Planned Parenthood makes millions.  They even give away inferior condoms so they can make even more money on abortions.


----------



## clane1987

Did McCain just ignore Obama's handshake? I noticed Obama went on to shake Mrs. McCain's hand.


----------



## kane3o1

Obama wins again! ^_^


----------



## Stoner

Just finished watching the debates and I must say I am dissapointed in Obama.  After being owned in the first one and how Palin clearly shined in the VP debate, Obama needed to come out and excel.  He didn't.  He continued to come off like a slick, fast-talking, used car salesman.  I don't think he answered one question without delving into libbie rhetoric and talking points.

I was very impressed with McCain.  He came off more experienced and far more presidential.  He really made Obama appear foolish.  McCain answered the questions directly and clearly had a plan for getting us out of our current situation.


----------



## strollingbones

do you think abortions are free?  except thur planned parent hood?  and i have not heard of them giving out inferior condoms...you are aware your local county health agency gives out condoms too.  what do you have against condoms...seems if you are against abortion you would be in full support of condoms.


----------



## Red Dawn

kane3o1 said:


> Obama wins again! ^_^




Obama won hands down.  I predict the post-debate scientific polls will reflect it. 

Obama looked more presidential, more articulate, more informed, and his policies are more foward looking and popular.


----------



## strollingbones

mccain did refuse to shakehands..the reference to "that one" wont ring well tomorrow


----------



## Red Dawn

Stoner said:


> Just finished watching the debates and I must say I am dissapointed in Obama.  After being owned in the first one and how Palin clearly shined in the VP debate, Obama needed to come out and excel.  He didn't.  He continued to come off like a slick, fast-talking, used car salesman.  I don't think he answered one question without delving into libbie rhetoric and talking points.
> 
> I was very impressed with McCain.  He came off more experienced and far more presidential.  He really made Obama appear foolish.  McCain answered the questions directly and clearly had a plan for getting us out of our current situation.




LOL

Thanks for the laugh.


----------



## clane1987

Wonder how the minutes split?


----------



## AVG-JOE

Stoner said:


> Just finished watching the debates and I must say I am dissapointed in Obama.  After being owned in the first one and how Palin clearly shined in the VP debate, Obama needed to come out and excel.  He didn't.  He continued to come off like a slick, fast-talking, used car salesman.  I don't think he answered one question without delving into libbie rhetoric and talking points.
> 
> I was very impressed with McCain.  He came off more experienced and far more presidential.  He really made Obama appear foolish.




I want what you're smokin'...

-Joe


----------



## Gem

I don't think the debate was particularly impressive on either side.  Obama did well, but so did McCain.  Neither of them had any majorly obvious gaffes at this point...neither of them had any major scores that would win over undecided voters.

I think that this debate will do little or nothing in the polls...which, of course, is far worse for McCain than for Obama.


----------



## Modbert

AVG-JOE said:


> I want what you're smokin'...
> 
> -Joe



Same here! Puff Puff Pass!


----------



## strollingbones

i didnt find either being that impressive.  mccain seems old school at best....a continum of bush..obama seemed hesitant to go on the attack.


----------



## Modbert

clane1987 said:


> Did McCain just ignore Obama's handshake? I noticed Obama went on to shake Mrs. McCain's hand.



That won't look good tomorrow.


----------



## random3434

Did anyone on here learn anything new about either candidate?

Geez, I about fell asleep. The talking points, the he said/she said, the finger pointing......



zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Just my humble opinion folks.


----------



## I Missthe North

Echo Zulu said:


> Did anyone on here learn anything new about either candidate?
> 
> Geez, I about fell asleep. The talking points, the he said/she said, the finger pointing......
> 
> 
> 
> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
> 
> 
> Just my humble opinion folks.



It sounded almost exactly like the last debate.  Nothing really new at all.  I thought McCain took the reins at the beginning, but Obama came on strong at the end.  But you are right, nothing special.


----------



## kane3o1

Biden and Palin debate>>>>>>>>>>>>>>this one

Obama (2-0)
Biden (1-0) ^_^


McCain (0-2)
Palin (0-1)


----------



## AVG-JOE

And now...






The talking heads.

Nothing.  In 700 billion words.  At least.

-Joe


----------



## The Paperboy

Snoooooooooooozzzzzzzze.


----------



## random3434

kane3o1 said:


> Biden and Palin debate>>>>>>>>>>>>>>this one
> 
> Obama (2-0)
> Biden (1-0) ^_^
> 
> 
> McCain (0-2)
> Palin (0-1)



Maybe we could make this into a fantasy football type thing to make it more exciting!


----------



## Modbert

McCain considers Obama a threat, so therefore McCain's next musical hit will be "Bomb Bomb Bomb Chicago?"


----------



## jschuck12001

I noticed Obama wouldnt shake Mccains hand, I'm glad, he takes cheap shots and doesnt deserve respect anymore.  All 3 Republicans on CNN had Obama winning, they looked depressed.  Obama scored big with Ohio women, looks good all around.


----------



## Gunny

Robert_Santurri said:


> Round 2 folks, here we go!



Who cares?  I'd as soon watch the dog and cat fight over a toy.


----------



## random3434

Gunny said:


> Who cares?  I'd as soon watch the dog and cat fight over a toy.



Wasn't that the Vice President Debate?


----------



## Dirt McGirt

McCain was on the ropes going into the debate and Obama could have knocked him out...but nobody landed shit. Nothing but talking points. Best 40 minutes of sleep I've gotten in a long time.


----------



## sealybobo

Robert_Santurri said:


> If Obama shines here tonight, then McCain is cooked like a thanksgiving turkey.



You ever see 8 mile with eminem?  This was mccains one shot do not miss ya chance to blow cause opportunity comes once in a lifetime....

And instead all he gave us was a one man quartet.


----------



## The Paperboy

The Loser: Tom Brokaw

What's the point of having a Town Hall format with a bunch of boring frickin' questions???

What a waste of time.


----------



## Silence

Gunny said:


> Who cares?  I'd as soon watch the dog and cat fight over a toy.



Hey, my cat and dog do that but they are just playing most of the time...


----------



## mdjgirl7

CrimsonWhite said:


> McCain went on the attack first. Not a good move. Obama also looks and sounds good tonight.



Turn on Cnn none of the posters are singing anyone's praises. Apparently the messiah did not just thrill everyone like the obamanites thought he would.


----------



## random3434

Dirt McGirt said:


> McCain was on the ropes going into the debate and Obama could have knocked him out...but nobody landed shit. Nothing but talking points. Best 40 minutes of sleep I've gotten in a long time.




Hell, I was so bored at one point I turned the t.v. to the Kentucky/Alabama football game, it was a repeat  that had been played last Saturday!


----------



## Silence

The Paperboy said:


> The Loser: Tom Brokaw
> 
> What's the point of having a Town Hall format with a bunch of boring frickin' questions???
> 
> What a waste of time.



yeah, the whole thing was a total waste of time IMO..

neither one really answered the questions and the questions were fucking weak!


----------



## NOBama

LOL! Over 200 posts regarding a debate that just ended 10 minutes ago. You guys are _FAST!!!_


----------



## I Missthe North

The Paperboy said:


> The Loser: Tom Brokaw
> 
> What's the point of having a Town Hall format with a bunch of boring frickin' questions???
> 
> What a waste of time.



Yea, they completely got away from the town hall format.  That was kind of disappointing.  I was looking to seeing the public actually get to grill some candidates and that definitely did not happen.  Although, it is not like either of the candidates even attempted to stick the rules they agree upon beforehand.  That could not have made it easy for Ole Tom.


----------



## kane3o1

Echo Zulu said:


> Maybe we could make this into a fantasy football type thing to make it more exciting!



LOL


----------



## AVG-JOE

Gunny said:


> Who cares?  I'd as soon watch the dog and cat fight over a toy.



Who are you and what the _fuck_ have you done with Gunny?!?

-Joe


----------



## jillian

Silence said:


> yeah, the whole thing was a total waste of time IMO..
> 
> neither one really answered the questions and the questions were fucking weak!



he's just cranky that it didn't turn into a free-for-all about ayers and the "chicago mafia'...


----------



## Modbert

NObama said:


> LOL! Over 200 posts regarding a debate that just ended 10 minutes ago. You guys are _FAST!!!_



We've been talking the entire debate. So epic fail is you.


----------



## jschuck12001

mdjgirl7 said:


> Turn on Cnn none of the posters are singing anyone's praises. Apparently the messiah did not just thrill everyone like the obamanites thought he would.



I watched CNN, All 6 judges(3 republican, 3 dem) scored Obama the winner, these people arent going to go on a limb until they get the polls and hear what people thought.  Bottom line is that Obama did well whether he won, or tied so how is Mccain going to makeup ground.


----------



## DavidS

Echo Zulu said:


> Did anyone on here learn anything new about either candidate?
> 
> Geez, I about fell asleep. The talking points, the he said/she said, the finger pointing......
> 
> 
> 
> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
> 
> 
> Just my humble opinion folks.



It's time for a 3rd party.


----------



## xsited1

I was too busy playing unreal tournament to watch the debate.  Did I miss anything?


----------



## kane3o1

robert_santurri said:


> we've Been Talking The Entire Debate. So Epic Fail Is You.



Lol


----------



## jillian

Gem said:


> I don't think the debate was particularly impressive on either side.  Obama did well, but so did McCain.  Neither of them had any majorly obvious gaffes at this point...neither of them had any major scores that would win over undecided voters.
> 
> I think that this debate will do little or nothing in the polls...which, of course, is far worse for McCain than for Obama.



I agree 100%


----------



## I Missthe North

xsited1 said:


> I was too busy playing unreal tournament to watch the debate.  Did I miss anything?



Not a thing.  You were actually probably doing something more productive then the rest of us who did.


----------



## Modbert

jillian said:


> he's just cranky that it didn't turn into a free-for-all about ayers and the "chicago mafia'...



Which I'm surprised that McCain hasn't accused Obama of being a member of yet.


----------



## xsited1

I Missthe North said:


> Not a thing.  You were actually probably doing something more productive then the rest of us who did.



I did win the match!  

(BTW, the drug war IS a failure.)


----------



## random3434

DavidS said:


> It's time for a 3rd party.



You know, I really think 4 years from now we will have one that will make some noise. 

I think American's are fed up with the 2 party system, and more and more "mainstream" dems and repubs will start leaving to go to the third or even fourth party. 


4 years is a long time to get things going, I think it's possible!


----------



## Modbert

xsited1 said:


> I did win the match!
> 
> (BTW, the drug war IS a failure.)



A $39 billion dollar failure so far this year.

War On Drugs Clock


----------



## kane3o1

Obama and his wife are STILL talking to the voters/audience!!! Classy IMO.


----------



## Gunny

Robert_Santurri said:


> Which I'm surprised that McCain hasn't accused Obama of being a member of yet.



I'm surprised people like you can get all giddy over an idiot and the idiot running against him.  And trust me, NOTHING partisan about that.  

What is partisan though is I love reading the claims of victory and or how badly the GOP did by you lefties.  I remember them from last Presidential election too.

All that wishful thinking really worked then.


----------



## I Missthe North

xsited1 said:


> I did win the match!
> 
> (BTW, the drug war IS a failure.)



Talk about unnecessary spending...wow...but that is for another day and another thread...Sure could use it to prop up the economy these days.


----------



## DavidS

Holy shit! Drudge has a headline of B O R I N G on his website with the focus of the picture on McCain!!! No "McCain wins!" in red white and blue letters!


----------



## Modbert

Gunny said:


> I'm surprised people like you can get all giddy over an idiot and the idiot running against him.  And trust me, NOTHING partisan about that.
> 
> What is partisan though is I love reading the claims of victory and or how badly the GOP did by you lefties.  I remember them from last Presidential election too.
> 
> All that wishful thinking really worked then.



I'm a leftie? You must be getting your facts from the same place John McCain is Gunny.


----------



## kane3o1

McCain= classless


----------



## NOBama

Robert_Santurri said:


> We've been talking the entire debate. So epic fail is you.




I'll get over it...
.
.
.
Okay, I'm over it now!


----------



## kane3o1

Robert_Santurri said:


> We've been talking the entire debate. So epic fail is you.





NObama said:


> I'll get over it...
> .
> .
> .
> Okay, I'm over it now!




Your still failing.......


----------



## jillian

strollingbones said:


> he was preaching to the choir...i didnt think it was lame.  it was a pretty good close imho



I agree. won't change any minds, but spoke to the choir.


----------



## mdjgirl7

jschuck12001 said:


> I noticed Obama wouldnt shake Mccains hand, I'm glad, he takes cheap shots and doesnt deserve respect anymore.  All 3 Republicans on CNN had Obama winning, they looked depressed.  Obama scored big with Ohio women, looks good all around.



The only thing I have heard was how good Obama looked what a good speaker he is blah blah this was a beauty contest obviously. How Obama can work a room how he stayed and shook hands tiring to win the room over. 

Now they are making a big deal out of how McCain said that one to Obama oh please I have never seen such crap in all my life. McCain was talking about how he went against his own party tiring to pass a big hoooge deal with lots of pork in it he voted against it and that one he points to Obama voted for it. The big picture is Obama did not deny it. They fall to mention that one.


----------



## Silence

the polling numbers are coming in and once again it looks like the people are picking Obama for the win.

I didn't realize McCain and his wife left the hall while Obama stayed to meet the people who took their time to participate.  Ultimately I don't think McCain gives a fuck about this election.


----------



## Modbert

NObama said:


> I'll get over it...
> .
> .
> .
> Okay, I'm over it now!



Epic fail is still you.


----------



## AVG-JOE

Gunny said:


> I'm surprised people like you can get all giddy over an idiot and the idiot running against him.  And trust me, NOTHING partisan about that.
> 
> What is partisan though is I love reading the claims of victory and or how badly the GOP did by you lefties.  I remember them from last Presidential election too.
> 
> All that wishful thinking really worked then.



Now there's the Gunny we know and love!

I _knew_ you cared, bro'!  I _knew_ it!

-Joe


----------



## Red Dawn

mdjgirl7 said:


> Now they are making a big deal out of how McCain said that one to Obama oh please I have never seen such crap in all my life. .



That's because you're a hyper partisan, bush loving republican. 

We had to hear about Al Gore's sighs in the 2000 debate, for about three weeks.


----------



## clane1987

If the numbers Obama is pulling in on CNN stay, its over.


----------



## jschuck12001

Silence said:


> the polling numbers are coming in and once again it looks like the people are picking Obama for the win.
> 
> I didn't realize McCain and his wife left the hall while Obama stayed to meet the people who took their time to participate.  Ultimately I don't think McCain gives a fuck about this election.



I agree, he looked pissed after the debate, like a defeated man.  I am not saying Obama will win the election but Mccain is just sloppy and annoying and seemed worried after it was over.


----------



## Red Dawn

CNN scientific Instapoll

Obama 54%
McCain 30%


----------



## Modbert

Silence said:


> the polling numbers are coming in and once again it looks like the people are picking Obama for the win.
> 
> I didn't realize McCain and his wife left the hall while Obama stayed to meet the people who took their time to participate.  Ultimately I don't think McCain gives a fuck about this election.



Agreed, they showed Barack and Michelle talking to people after casually.


----------



## Dirt McGirt

Red Dawn said:


> CNN scientific Instapoll
> 
> Obama 54%
> McCain 30%




CNN Scientific Instapoll

Made It Through the Debate 3%
Visually Induced Coma 96%


----------



## CrimsonWhite

kane3o1 said:


> McCain= classless



kane3o1= asshole

McCain has class. It takes class to do what he has done his entire life.


----------



## kane3o1

*CNN Poll so far:*

Who fared better in Tuesday's presidential debate?

Sen. John McCain 	14% 	9482
Sen. Barack Obama 	82% 	54507
No clear winner 	3% 	2212


----------



## kane3o1

CrimsonWhite said:


> kane3o1= asshole
> 
> McCain has class. It takes class to do what he has done his entire life.



McCain referring to Obama as "that one" is classy? 
You sir, are an idiot


----------



## Modbert

kane3o1 said:


> *CNN Poll so far:*
> 
> Who fared better in Tuesday's presidential debate?
> 
> Sen. John McCain 	14% 	9482
> Sen. Barack Obama 	82% 	54507
> No clear winner 	3% 	2212



I want to see the Fox News poll too, that's if they are allowing votes for the Democrat to actually count this time.


----------



## Red Dawn

Obama is even crushing, on the Fox News web poll.   lol.


----------



## DavidS

According to NBC News, John McCain's campaign has complained that this debate was not truly a townhall debate.


----------



## DavidS

Dirt McGirt said:


> CNN Scientific Instapoll
> 
> Made It Through the Debate 3%
> Visually Induced Coma 96%


----------



## Modbert

DavidS said:


> According to NBC News, John McCain's campaign has complained that this debate was not truly a townhall debate.



Of course not, McCain actually had to explain himself.


----------



## CrimsonWhite

kane3o1 said:


> McCain referring to Obama as "that one" is classy?
> You sir, are an idiot



Of course he did, as the older, more experienced candidate, he established seniority. Same as Reagan over Mondale. That's how things are. Now, if McCain had called him "boy" then you would have a case. Since this isn't the case, your comment is nothing more than a partisan crack at a man that you already had a predetermined opinion of. That makes you an asshole.


----------



## jschuck12001

Robert_Santurri said:


> I want to see the Fox News poll too, that's if they are allowing votes for the Democrat to actually count this time.



I turned it to fox and the text mail vote was 86% Mccain 12% Obama, I'm not surprised.


----------



## DavidS

Robert_Santurri said:


> Of course not, McCain actually had to explain himself.



Seriously, how many questions did the audience get to ask vs. how many the moderator asked?

Let them do another town hall. This time in Ohio.


----------



## Red Dawn

Devastating. 

More from CNN's instapoll:


Who expressed his views more clearly in the debate?

Obama 60
McCain 30

Who spent more time attacking his opponent?

Obama 17
McCain 63

Who seemed to be the stronger leader?

Obama 54
McCain 43

Who was most likeable?

Obama 65
McCain 28


----------



## clane1987

Red Dawn said:


> Obama is even crushing, on the Fox News web poll.   lol.



what is the percentages on the fox news polls? I refuse to watch that channel.


----------



## Modbert

DavidS said:


> Seriously, how many questions did the audience get to ask vs. how many the moderator asked?
> 
> Let them do another town hall. This time in Ohio.



To be honest, I wouldn't mind a audience townhall but you have to be careful with that.

Otherwise you might get questions for Obama like in the sham ABC debate when he debated Hillary.


----------



## Red Dawn

clane1987 said:


> what is the percentages on the fox news polls? I refuse to watch that channel.




their web poll was something like 62% Obama 38% McCain last I checked.


----------



## Silence

CrimsonWhite said:


> kane3o1= asshole
> 
> McCain has class. It takes class to do what he has done his entire life.



In 2000 I would've agreed with you. The McCain of today is not the same man who ran against Bush in 2000.  I don't know, maybe something in him broke when his own party turned so viciously against him.  he seems to have lost his integrity and honor in the waning days of this election and it's truly a sad sight to behold.


----------



## Modbert

Not even the McCain followers can deny that John McCain was on the offensive more instead of answering the questions really.

I heard at least third times about Obama and earmarks while he ignores the hypocrisy that the people he supports has.


----------



## clane1987

Red Dawn said:


> their web poll was something like 62% Obama 38% McCain last I checked.



can you give me a link please. Sorry I'm not good at navigating the foxnews site


----------



## Red Dawn

clane1987 said:


> can you give me a link please. Sorry I'm not good at navigating the foxnews site




Home - FOXNews.com Elections


----------



## kane3o1

CrimsonWhite said:


> Of course he did, as the older, more experienced candidate, he established seniority. Same as Reagan over Mondale. That's how things are. Now, if McCain had called him "boy" then you would have a case. Since this isn't the case, your comment is nothing more than a partisan crack at a man that you already had a predetermined opinion of. That makes you an asshole.



Cry Moar.
I think your just bitter that Obama will be your next president 

Obama= classy
McCain= classless
CrimsonWhite= McCain's intern


----------



## Modbert

Silence said:


> In 2000 I would've agreed with you. The McCain of today is not the same man who ran against Bush in 2000.  I don't know, maybe something in him broke when his own party turned so viciously against him.  he seems to have lost his integrity and honor in the waning days of this election and it's truly a sad sight to behold.



John McCain from 2000 to today reminds me of Star Wars.

He use to believe in justice, good, and defending what is right. But then the power of the dark side eventually was too much of a temptation. And in exchange for getting the Republican Nomination, he had to sell his soul basically.


----------



## kane3o1

*FoxNews.com*

Question of the Day
Who won the second presidential debate in Nashville?

John McCain 39%

Barack Obama 61%

Total Voters:8208


----------



## kane3o1

Who would make a better first lady?
Cindy McCain 	14% 	1050
Michelle Obama 	86% 	6591
Total Votes: 7641


----------



## jschuck12001

Thats funny because they wont bring it up on air, they have the text vote at the bottom of the screen and its heavy towards Mccain.


----------



## sealybobo

clane1987 said:


> what is the percentages on the fox news polls? I refuse to watch that channel.



I blocked that pornography.  I only watch now when the daily show makes fun of those two douches.  one, the blonde guy, is actually named douche, or close to it.  But the questions he proposes are insane.  Like when he kept saying madrasa.  I wouldn't even know that word if it weren't for him.  I should watch them in the morning tomorr, NO!  I refuse!

omg, I just saw the scariest thing.  Obama won every cnn poll, but then the lady asked 25 ppl who would they vote for and 14 said mccain, 11 obama.  wtf!


----------



## Modbert

MSNBC - "10:43" McCain and his wife left.

Obama stayed for least twenty minutes after the debate.

What was John McCain's excuse? On his way back to Washington for another bill?


----------



## Red Dawn

I don't know why so many of y'all think this debate was so horrible, or boring. 

Debates are pretty much never entertaining.  They never get into the nuts and bolts of policy wonkery.   They're job interviews. 

I thought the questions were substantive and important.  The economy, national security, and the worst financial meltdown since the great depression.  Those are weighty issues. 

I don't know if y'all remember, but those 2000  debates, and even to some extent the 2004 debates had a lot of shit questions about bibles, guns, and gays. 

Which seem absolutely trivial now, in retrospect.


----------



## CrimsonWhite

Robert_Santurri said:


> MSNBC - "10:43" McCain and his wife left.
> 
> Obama stayed for least twenty minutes after the debate.
> 
> What was John McCain's excuse? On his way back to Washington for another bill?



Maybe he didn't need an excuse, but it could be that walking to the bathroom is painful for him. You know, cause the gooks(word used with heavy sarcasmand a word perfectly acceptable to use about enemy combatants that made a living beating the shit out of American GI's) beat the shit out of him for like 5 years or something.


----------



## jschuck12001

sealybobo said:


> I blocked that pornography.  I only watch now when the daily show makes fun of those two douches.  one, the blonde guy, is actually named douche, or close to it.  But the questions he proposes are insane.  Like when he kept saying madrasa.  I wouldn't even know that word if it weren't for him.  I should watch them in the morning tomorr, NO!  I refuse!
> 
> omg, I just saw the scariest thing.  Obama won every cnn poll, but then the lady asked 25 ppl who would they vote for and 14 said mccain, 11 obama.  wtf!



I saw the same thing but only 4 of the 25 people said they made up their mind, I think they want to vote Mccain but are running out of excuses for him.


----------



## CrimsonWhite

kane3o1 said:


> Cry Moar.
> I think your just bitter that Obama will be your next president
> 
> Obama= classy
> McCain= classless
> CrimsonWhite= McCain's intern



When you have been around here longer than a week, you can comment on where i stand and whom I support. Until then, you just look like a dumbass.


----------



## jschuck12001

CrimsonWhite said:


> Maybe he didn't need an excuse, but it could be that walking to the bathroom is painful for him. You cause the gooks beat the shit out of him for like 5 years or something.



I think his diaper was full.


----------



## CrimsonWhite

jschuck12001 said:


> I think his diaper was full.



not cool, Like him or not, he deserves more respect than you just gave him.


----------



## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> Maybe he didn't need an excuse, but it could be that walking to the bathroom is painful for him. You cause the gooks beat the shit out of him for like 5 years or something.



Stop using his time as a POW for a excuse of his not giving a damn about people.

Walking to the bathroom doesn't mean anything if he doesn't even come back to the room. He LEFT the building.

(Unless your sarcastic in that post, then I dunno what to tell you.)


----------



## jschuck12001

CrimsonWhite said:


> not cool, Like him or not, he deserves more respect than you just gave him.



This coming from the guy that uses the word "Gooks"  whatever pal, he's an ass and deserves little respect.


----------



## kane3o1

CrimsonWhite said:


> When you have been around here longer than a week, you can comment on where i stand and whom I support. Until then, you just look like a dumbass.



You supported the current 8 years of George Bush's policies but it's now time for a change


----------



## CrimsonWhite

jschuck12001 said:


> This coming from the guy that uses the word "Gooks"  whatever pal, he's an ass and deserves little respect.



It was sarcasm. The word is used in context, McCain's word.


----------



## Silence

CrimsonWhite said:


> Maybe he didn't need an excuse, but it could be that walking to the bathroom is painful for him. You cause the gooks beat the shit out of him for like 5 years or something.



so he had to go take a piss Crimson?  and did you use the term gook to be funny?


----------



## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> It was sarcasm. The word is used in context, McCain's word.



Well McCain has made some pretty offensive irish jokes in the past.

Did they torture him in a cell for five years too in Ireland?


----------



## jschuck12001

CrimsonWhite said:


> It was sarcasm. The word is used in context, McCain's word.



Wow, you neg repped me, sorry I disappointed you.  I respect he fought for the country, I dont respect him as a man, does that work for you.


----------



## CrimsonWhite

Robert_Santurri said:


> Well McCain has made some pretty offensive irish jokes in the past.
> 
> Did they torture him in a cell for five years too in Ireland?



Uh, he is of Irish heritage. This would be like me telling honky jokes. Geez people get a grip.

At what point in time did we stop respecting war heros. Or more importantly anyone who has served something greater than self. We are really gonna make jokes about this man shitting himself and bitch that he can't stand up as long as Obama? Give me a fucking break.


----------



## CrimsonWhite

Silence said:


> so he had to go take a piss Crimson?  and did you use the term gook to be funny?



It was used with heavy sarcasm.


----------



## Silence

CrimsonWhite said:


> It was used with heavy sarcasm.



yeah I saw you used it as a McCainism


----------



## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> Uh, he is of Irish heritage. This would be like me telling honky jokes. Geez people get a grip.
> 
> At what point in time did we stop respecting war heros. Or more importantly anyone who has served something greater than self. We are really gonna make jokes about this man shitting himself and bitch that he can't stand up as long as Obama? Give me a fucking break.



Alright, how about the jokes about female? Or that rape joke he did in the past?

He's not of the female gender.

Do I respect John McCain for his service in the war? Of course

Will I mock the man for his policies, actions, and every stupid comment? Yes

I'm not giving him a free pass because he was a war hero.

Hell any republicans bitching and moaning now about John McCain and his war record being attacked in 08, I have this question for you?

Where the fuck were you in 04 when it was happening to Kerry?


----------



## CrimsonWhite

jschuck12001 said:


> Wow, you neg repped me, sorry I disappointed you.  I respect he fought for the country, I dont respect him as a man, does that work for you.



I get a little touchy about Vietnam Vets. My Dad's stories of being spit on resonate every time someone insults this man. I don't agree wth all of his politics and after the debate tonight, I probably won't vote for him, but I'll be damned if I'll ever insult him, or stop getting pissed when someone else does as well.


----------



## Modbert

Silence said:


> yeah I saw you used it as a McCainism



Well hells bells, he called Obama "that one."

I was waiting for McCain to pull one of these:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv_ac-op8IA]YouTube - Michael Richards' Racist Rant[/ame]

(N word thrown around in this video, so sorry if anyone is offended then I wouldn't look at it).


----------



## CrimsonWhite

Robert_Santurri said:


> Where the fuck were you in 04 when it was happening to Kerry?



Defending Kerry the same way I am defending McCain. Swiftboat was disgraceful. As a Republican, I am ashamed of everything that Karl Rove has masterminded.


----------



## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> Defending Kerry the same way I am defending McCain. Swiftboat was disgraceful. As a Republican, I am ashamed of everything that Karl Rove has masterminded.



He's the reason why all this swiftboat shit happened in the first place. (Rove)

I just hate it how many times Republicans act like they are the only one who serve their country. When that just isn't true.


----------



## jschuck12001

CrimsonWhite said:


> Defending Kerry the same way I am defending McCain. Swiftboat was disgraceful. As a Republican, I am ashamed of everything that Karl Rove has masterminded.



Karl rove has masterminded the whole republican party, maybe you need to make a change.


----------



## CrimsonWhite

jschuck12001 said:


> Karl rove has masterminded the whole republican party, maybe you need to make a change.



I won't abandon my principles due to the indiscretions of one man and hs administration. My Republican principles haven't changed.


----------



## CrimsonWhite

Silence said:


> so he had to go take a piss Crimson?  and did you use the term gook to be funny?



Perhaps he is unable to stand as long as Obama. He does fell a hell of a lot of pain. 

As for the use of the word gook, I am unapologetic about this description of enemy combatants that made their living beating the shit out of American GI's in violation of the Geneva Convention.


----------



## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> Perhaps he is unable to stand as long as Obama. He does fell a hell of a lot of pain.
> 
> As for the use of the word gook, I am unapologetic about this description of enemy combatants that made their living beating the shit out of American GI's in violation of the Geneva Convention.



And how would you then describe the Americans in Guantanamo Bay that make their living beating the shit out of people who are supposedly America's enemies in violation of the Geneva Convention through ways of torture?

And lets not give the bullshit explaination if you support that in belief that "It's not in America so therefore it's not in violation."


----------



## jschuck12001

CrimsonWhite said:


> I won't abandon my principles due to the indiscretions of one man and hs administration. My Republican principles haven't changed.



See I dont buy into the party thing, I'm actually registered republican but thats out of laziness, I'm an independent that has voted Republican and Dem and I will always vote for people not parties.  I have some conservative views but not enough to go for Mccain.


----------



## AVG-JOE

Dirt McGirt said:


> CNN Scientific Instapoll
> 
> Made It Through the Debate 3%
> Visually Induced Coma 96%



Does that mean only 1% was alcohol induced?

More of us should have chosen 'my friends'...

-Joe


----------



## OohRah Mama

CrimsonWhite said:


> I get a little touchy about Vietnam Vets. My Dad's stories of being spit on resonate every time someone insults this man. I don't agree wth all of his politics and after the debate tonight, I probably won't vote for him, but I'll be damned if I'll ever insult him, or stop getting pissed when someone else does as well.



CW, my dad was a tailgunner on B52s during Vietnam, and we lived on/near bases. I remember not only my dad being spit on, but we kids got spit on (and worse) as well. My kids are combat vets, too. I respect McCain's service and his time as a POW. 

I'd get pissed off if somebody insulted his service. But I'll never believe that his service should shield him from the criticism he so richly deserves - especially for his abominable failures to help his fellow vets.

And as for "abandoning principles" - I keep my principles, standards and morals intact no matter for what candidate I vote. I didn't go from All-American Apple Pie Mom to a terrorist-loving slut because I now am a Dem.


----------



## CrimsonWhite

Robert_Santurri said:


> And how would you then describe the Americans in Guantanamo Bay that make their living beating the shit out of people who are supposedly America's enemies in violation of the Geneva Convention through ways of torture?
> 
> And lets not give the bullshit explaination if you support that in belief that "It's not in America so therefore it's not in violation."



Not even pertinent to the discussion, but I am sure that those in Guantanamo have a name for us as well. I believe it is "infidel."


----------



## Modbert

AVG-JOE said:


> Doe that mean only 1% was alcohol induced?
> 
> More of us should have chosen 'my friends'...
> 
> -Joe



See, if I were a gambling man I would of been rich on the over/under for "my friends".

I wish someone would take the terms to have a little bing sound with a counter for everytime McCain said that. "My friends" was spoken least twenty times.


----------



## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> Not even pertinent to the discussion, but I am sure that those in Guantanamo have a name for us as well. I believe it is "infidel."



Certainly pertinent to the discussion since the Republican party principles is to torture them.

That's why McCain doesn't talk about that and illegal immigration. Because he supports Amnesty for the Illegal immigrants, if alot of McCain's supporters realized that then I think the supporters would be ex-supporters.


----------



## CrimsonWhite

OohRah Mama said:


> CW, my dad was a tailgunner on B52s during Vietnam, and we lived on/near bases. I remember not only my dad being spit on, but we kids got spit on (and worse) as well. My kids are combat vets, too. I respect McCain's service and his time as a POW.
> 
> I'd get pissed off if somebody insulted his service. But I'll never believe that his service should shield him from the criticism he so richly deserves - especially for his abominable failures to help his fellow vets.



I have no problem with critcizing him politically. I have a problem with pettiness. Such as "Obama stayed longer than McCain, what is McCain's problem?" Or "he probably left because his diaper was full." That is a disrespect that is uncalled for Especially because of the reason he stays in a perpetual state of pain.


----------



## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> I have no problem with critcizing him politically. I have a problem with pettiness. Such as "Obama stayed longer than McCain, what is McCain's problem?" Or "he probably left because his diaper was full." That is a disrespect that is uncalled for Especially because of the reason he stays in a perpetual state of pain.



Well I would certainly like to know why McCain left as soon as the debate was over. I understand if you have to go to the bathroom, but not even come back?


----------



## Red Dawn

Robert_Santurri said:


> Well I would certainly like to know why McCain left as soon as the debate was over.
> 
> *I understand if you have to go to the bathroom, but not even come back?*



Its possible the old man had an accident in his Depends adult undergarments. 

You can't really clean up a mess like that in short order, and return to shake hands.


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## jschuck12001

I'm not a expert in military and dont talk much about it because I'm not as educated as some of the folks on this board like Navy and others but it seems like Obama's answer on attacking terrorism at the root in Afghanistan makes more sense than Mccain always trying to prove he was right about the surge and not giving us specifics on what he will do because its secret.  I feel like he talks down to us as we should just trust him because he is an ex pow instead of telling us with conviction how he will attack the "REAL" terrorists.


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## jschuck12001

Red Dawn said:


> Its possible the old man had an accident in his Depends adult undergarments.
> 
> You can't really clean up a mess like that in short order, and return to shake hands.



Damn, your gonna get neg repped by Crimson tide.


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## N4mddissent

As an Obama supporter I want to say that I disagree with irrelevant insults directed at either candidate.  I do think John McCain deserves a certain amount of personal respect due to his service.  However, I think sometimes, his service is placed on an overly high pedastal in the sense that those who died in service did not sacrifice any less than John McCain, they just don't have a physical presence to remind us of our soldiers who sacrifice.  I will treat John McCain with a certain amount of dignity.  His polices, and his statements made in the political forum, are open game.  They are unrelated to his service and are a choice he makes in becoming a public figure.  I do not think he should use his service as a political tool as much as he does, but he earned his status and so it is his to choose to hold as sacred or profane.  

That being said, I have a cousin who is really more like a brother to me that I often talk politics with.  This cousin is retired from the military and attended West Point.  For years, he has held McCain in the highest respect and indeed, Bush lost his support completely when he ran the diry primary campaign in 2000.  The republicans in general, except for McCain who did the right thing and called it dishonorable, lost his respect when they did not speak out in harshest terms against the swift-boating of John Kerry which he felt were disgraceful and insulting to anyone who ever won a bronze star or purple heart.  He thought McCain might be his guy this year, but to be honest, he was bothered by McCain's willingness to endorse Bush and "buddy" up to him since the 2000 smear campaign.  He felt McCain was allowing his ambition to compromise his values a little.  And throughout this campaign year, he has slowly come to the decision that though he cannot ever disregard or disrespect McCain's service or sacrifice, he does not believe McCain has demonstrated the character or leadership he was hoping for, and furthermore, is supporting policies that are not in the best interest of the country, but rather ideologically driven.  He is disappointed and has stated flatly that he will not vote for McCain.  Whether he will vote for Obama he has not yet decided.  

I think, in many ways this reflects my perception on McCain.  I respect his past, but it in no way makes me feel he is more appropriate to lead this country.  And though I fundamentally disagree with him and think he has made some poor decisions as a politician, I would be disappointed to see other progressives insulting him personally.  Just as I am disappointed seeing a man with honor in his service record, be so dishonorable as to attack a rival with this nonsensical William Ayers stuff.


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## CrimsonWhite

Robert_Santurri said:


> Well I would certainly like to know why McCain left as soon as the debate was over. I understand if you have to go to the bathroom, but not even come back?



Perhaps he was in pain? As I have said three times.


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## CrimsonWhite

Red Dawn said:


> Its possible the old man had an accident in his Depends adult undergarments.
> 
> You can't really clean up a mess like that in short order, and return to shake hands.



wow, we really are a nation assholes aren't we?


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## CrimsonWhite

N4mddissent said:


> As an Obama supporter I want to say that I disagree with irrelevant insults directed at either candidate.  I do think John McCain deserves a certain amount of personal respect due to his service.  However, I think sometimes, his service is placed on an overly high pedastal in the sense that those who died in service did not sacrifice any less than John McCain, they just don't have a physical presence to remind us of our soldiers who sacrifice.  I will treat John McCain with a certain amount of dignity.  His polices, and his statements made in the political forum, are open game.  They are unrelated to his service and are a choice he makes in becoming a public figure.  I do not think he should use his service as a political tool as much as he does, but he earned his status and so it is his to choose to hold as sacred or profane.
> 
> That being said, I have a cousin who is really more like a brother to me that I often talk politics with.  This cousin is retired from the military and attended West Point.  For years, he has held McCain in the highest respect and indeed, Bush lost his support completely when he ran the diry primary campaign in 2000.  The republicans in general, except for McCain who did the right thing and called it dishonorable, lost his respect when they did not speak out in harshest terms against the swift-boating of John Kerry which he felt were disgraceful and insulting to anyone who ever won a bronze star or purple heart.  He thought McCain might be his guy this year, but to be honest, he was bothered by McCain's willingness to endorse Bush and "buddy" up to him since the 2000 smear campaign.  He felt McCain was allowing his ambition to compromise his values a little.  And throughout this campaign year, he has slowly come to the decision that though he cannot ever disregard or disrespect McCain's service or sacrifice, he does not believe McCain has demonstrated the character or leadership he was hoping for, and furthermore, is supporting policies that are not in the best interest of the country, but rather ideologically driven.  He is disappointed and has stated flatly that he will not vote for McCain.  Whether he will vote for Obama he has not yet decided.
> 
> I think, in many ways this reflects my perception on McCain.  I respect his past, but it in no way makes me feel he is more appropriate to lead this country.  And though I fundamentally disagree with him and think he has made some poor decisions as a politician, I would be disappointed to see other progressives insulting him personally.  Just as I am disappointed seeing a man with honor in his service record, be so dishonorable as to attack a rival with this nonsensical William Ayers stuff.



I feel the same way, but I won't show disrespect by making old man shits his pants jokes.


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## N4mddissent

> I feel the same way, but I won't show disrespect by making old man shits his pants jokes.



And I agree with you.  Those are unncessary and irrelevant and disrespectful.  As I have said to fellow progressives in the past, you should learn that sometimes you do more to help your cause by learning to shut the hell up.  I personally believe that most (not all) progressive policies can be defended and supported on a factual basis or at least through reason and logic.  Juvenile insults just make your cause look hollow and tarnish your allies.


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## jschuck12001

CrimsonWhite said:


> I feel the same way, but I won't show disrespect by making old man shits his pants jokes.



If he did shit his pants it wouldnt be because he was old but because he just lost his beloved town hall meeting he has sought for so long.


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## Chris

McCain left to call Mitt Romney to see if he would agree to replace Palin on the ticket.


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## kane3o1

Robert_Santurri said:


> MSNBC - "10:43" McCain and his wife left.
> 
> Obama stayed for least twenty minutes after the debate.
> 
> What was John McCain's excuse? On his way back to Washington for another bill?


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## N4mddissent

By the way, to my fellow Obama supporters, let the "that one" comment die.  It's silly.  Just I have defended comments made by progressives, whether it is Obama's "lipstick on a pig" comment, or people trying to manipulate something Joe Biden said about coal plants in America, this is a simple off-hand comment that I don't believe had any deeper meaning than McCain saying guess which candidate voted for it, that one.  He just didn't say the "guess which candidate" part.  Reading racial or dismissiveness into it is reaching.  I did notice the not shaking hands at the end, and body language tells me there is a certain amount of disdain toward Obama by McCain, but in all honesty, that doesn't matter nearly as much as the issues and it's just speculation.  Speculation wasted on unimportant matters.  Don't waste time on this progressives.


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## N4mddissent

> What was John McCain's excuse? On his way back to Washington for another bill?



This however, is an acceptable piece of humor at McCain's expense in my opinion.


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## CrimsonWhite

N4mddissent said:


> And I agree with you.  Those are unncessary and irrelevant and disrespectful.  As I have said to fellow progressives in the past, you should learn that sometimes you do more to help your cause by learning to shut the hell up.  I personally believe that most (not all) progressive policies can be defended and supported on a factual basis or at least through reason and logic.  Juvenile insults just make your cause look hollow and tarnish your allies.



I agree wholly. There are several progressive issues that I could get behind.


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## CrimsonWhite

Chris said:


> McCain left to call Mitt Romney to see if he would agree to replace Palin on the ticket.



Now that's funny.


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## kane3o1

ATTN: CrimsonWhite

Would you feel comfortable with Sarah Palin as President of the United States? Do you think she is qualified? Do you think McCain put the country 1st by choosing her or do you think he chose her sorely just to lure in those Hillary Clinton female votes?


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## kane3o1

*Updated CNN.com poll:*

Who fared better in Tuesday's presidential debate?

Sen. John McCain 	17% 	30754
Sen. Barack Obama 	79% 	146520
No clear winner 	4% 	7756
Total Votes: 185030


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## N4mddissent

> I agree wholly. There are several progressive issues that I could get behind.



And there are times when I find myself on the conservative side of issues. (Just not very frequently).  Primarily, I tend to be with conservatives on certain issues of gun control, but my ideas on that are a little wacky and unrealistic as I will readily admit.  I think that the free market is an engine that drives ingenuity and creativity, but also that is inherently weak to subversion through greed and human fallibility.  I believe multi-culturalism is a good thing, but post-modernism as I understand it is ridiculous.  I believe science trumps superstition, that liberty trumps security, and that being elite isn't a bad thing.  If I want my doctor or lawyer to have the best education possible, I think it is only consistent that I want an educated president as well.


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## DavidS

kane3o1 said:


> *Updated CNN.com poll:*
> 
> Who fared better in Tuesday's presidential debate?
> 
> Sen. John McCain 	17% 	30754
> Sen. Barack Obama 	79% 	146520
> No clear winner 	4% 	7756
> Total Votes: 185030



Ouch.


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## N4mddissent

MSNBC Poll Obama 83  McCain 13
Fox News online poll: Obama 69  McCain 31
Obama won among undecided voters in the CBS Poll. 40-26
CNN/ORC Obama 54 McCain 30

The other CNN result was the online poll.  The CNN/ORC is a national poll with over 600 respondents.  One of the more outstanding stats in the CNN/ORC poll in my opinion was this: 





> A majority, 54 percent, said Obama seemed to be the stronger leader during the debate, to 43 percent for McCain.


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## Epsilon Delta

That about sums it up:

CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - CNN Poll: Obama won the night  - Blogs from CNN.com



			
				CNN said:
			
		

> NASHVILLE, Tennessee (CNN) &#8212; A national poll of debate watchers suggests that Barack Obama won the second presidential debate.
> 
> Fifty-four percent of those questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey conducted after the debate ended said that Obama did the best job in the debate, with 30 percent saying John McCain performed better.
> 
> A majority, 54 percent, said Obama seemed to be the stronger leader during the debate, to 43 percent for McCain. By a greater than two to one margin &#8212; 65 percent to 28 percent &#8212; viewers thought Obama was more likeable during the debate.
> 
> A majority of debate watchers polled thought Obama was more intelligent, by a 57 percent to 25 percent margin over McCain. Twice as many debate watchers also thought Obama more clearly expressed than McCain, with 60 percent giving the nod to the Democratic nominee and 30 percent to his GOP opponent.
> 
> Hands down, debate watchers questioned thought McCain rather than Obama spent more time attacking his opponent: 63 percent said McCain went more negative, as opposed to 17 percent who pointed to Obama.
> 
> Half of those polled say Obama answered questions more directly, 13 points ahead of McCain, and by a 14 point advantage debate watchers thought Obama seemed to care more about the probelms of audience members who asked questions.
> 
> McCain did come out on top in one category that neither candidate wants to win: By a 16 point margin, debate watchers thought McCain seemed more like a typical politician during the debate.



Ouch, indeed.


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## Modbert

N4mddissent said:


> MSNBC Poll Obama 83  McCain 13
> Fox News online poll: Obama 69  McCain 31
> Obama won among undecided voters in the CBS Poll. 40-26
> CNN/ORC Obama 54 McCain 30
> 
> The other CNN result was the online poll.  The CNN/ORC is a national poll with over 600 respondents.  One of the more outstanding stats in the CNN/ORC poll in my opinion was this:



You know it's a rough night for McCain campaign when McCain loses the fox poll.


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## jillian

Robert_Santurri said:


> You know it's a rough night for McCain campaign when McCain loses the fox poll.



Heh... But he lost last time, too. And the debate really WAS boring. This was supposed to be McCain's milleau, but was a snorefest.


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## editec

CrimsonWhite said:


> I won't abandon my principles due to the indiscretions of one man and hs administration. My Republican principles haven't changed.


 
I don't blame you, CW.

the thing is, Republicans like yourself have to wrestle the party out of the hand sof the like of Rove.

Good luck with that.

You saw what they did to McCain when he got in their way.

The people currently running your party have zero integrity. They are an insult to honest Republicans (and there are a LOT of those, I think)

Not the rank and file Republican's faults, of course, but you guys DID put them in power because of parety loyalty.


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## bigdaddygtr

But my friend, don't you know we're in a crises?  My friend, cmon my friend, you know what I mean my friend


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## rayboyusmc

Once more Obama came across as the more "Presidential"

Why doesn't John just pack up his wife and her 60 million and stay in his 2.7 million home in Arizona?  Oh - Sorry, it's a power thing.

Hell, he could buy a small island, stock it with old mavericks, and then he would be the trail boss. Getr along little doggies.  It's all your misfortune and most of my own.


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## mdjgirl7

jillian said:


> Obama is doing great. McCain is holding his own. So far no errors... HE just looks old and tired next to Obama and his sibilent "s" is annoying. lol..



shame on you for making fun of one of our war hero's he was maimed in a POW camp. Did you stop and think gosh maybe he has a lisp because he nearly beaten to death. Who knows what they did to those poor men in captivity. That is just cruel of you to say that and the rest of you who are playing that game.


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## mdjgirl7

kane3o1 said:


> *Updated CNN.com poll:*
> 
> Who fared better in Tuesday's presidential debate?
> 
> Sen. John McCain 	17% 	30754
> Sen. Barack Obama 	79% 	146520
> No clear winner 	4% 	7756
> Total Votes: 185030




You know the very odd thing I find in the polls. I watched a group of pollsters afterwords and they twisted their joy sticks or whatever they had everytime Obama spoke but when the girl asked who they were going to vote for McCain had more raised hands then Obama she seemed dumb founded as to why that was. Even some of the undecided went for McCain. I though huh that is odd. Considering nobody has actually voted yet we shall see.


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## kane3o1

mdjgirl7 said:


> shame on you for making fun of one of our war hero's he was maimed in a POW camp. Did you stop and think gosh maybe he has a lisp because he nearly beaten to death. Who knows what they did to those poor men in captivity. That is just cruel of you to say that and the rest of you who are playing that game.




Shame on the McCain campaign for linking Obama to terrorists. Then he goes out and shakes the hand of someone his campaign says is "paling around with a terrorist." But sense he's a "war hero", I guess it's not a problem, right my friend?


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## Silence

mdjgirl7 said:


> shame on you for making fun of one of our war hero's he was maimed in a POW camp. Did you stop and think gosh maybe he has a lisp because he nearly beaten to death. Who knows what they did to those poor men in captivity. That is just cruel of you to say that and the rest of you who are playing that game.



OMG could you blame ONE MORE thing on McCain being a POW, PLEASE!?  is he going bald because he was a POW?  is his hair white because he was a POW?  

I'm *so* sick and tired of seeing this POW thing thrown around like it's an excuse for everything wrong with Mccain.  

He's not the first and certainly not the last POW this country has ever had.  

[youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/EbJtgpS2Jjc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/EbJtgpS2Jjc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> [/youtube]

and perhaps someone can explain to me why this man in the video, who is clearly McCain seems to have all his teeth, and those teeth seem to be in pretty good shape AND he's limping slightly, probably from breaking his leg in the plane crash and he's able to properly salute.

It seems from this footage that McCain's injuries weren't as severe as some would have us believe


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## editec

He was a POW.

He was tortured.

A little respect for what he went though is in order.

Making him POTUS for that is, of course, simply goofy.


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## mdjgirl7

Silence said:


> OMG could you blame ONE MORE thing on McCain being a POW, PLEASE!?  is he going bald because he was a POW?  is his hair white because he was a POW?
> 
> I'm *so* sick and tired of seeing this POW thing thrown around like it's an excuse for everything wrong with McCain.
> 
> He's not the first and certainly not the last POW this country has ever had.
> 
> [youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/EbJtgpS2Jjc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/EbJtgpS2Jjc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> [/youtube]
> 
> and perhaps someone can explain to me why this man in the video, who is clearly McCain seems to have all his teeth, and those teeth seem to be in pretty good shape AND he's limping slightly, probably from breaking his leg in the plane crash and he's able to properly salute.
> 
> It seems from this footage that McCain's injuries weren't as severe as some would have us believe



Wow can you really be that stupid? Stop being such a freaking drama queen. Nobody is using the time McCain spent in a POW camp as an excuse for anything other then his physical condition. And nobody has implied he is the only POW there was or is. 

But that does not give anyone the right to criticize his obviously injuries which might include a lisp. He may not be our next president but I hope so since the Dems have not produced a viable candidate IMO. 

Even if McCain does not make president I am grateful for his service in the military and the sacrifices he made as we all should be and to make fun of his injuries are just beyond cruel it is just ignorant. And that is what is going on. You have no idea what his injuries included are you his doctor? Have his medical records been released concerning his injuries he sustained no. You assume things you have no proof of. Let it go.


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## CrimsonWhite

Silence said:


> OMG could you blame ONE MORE thing on McCain being a POW, PLEASE!?  is he going bald because he was a POW?  is his hair white because he was a POW?
> 
> I'm *so* sick and tired of seeing this POW thing thrown around like it's an excuse for everything wrong with Mccain.
> 
> He's not the first and certainly not the last POW this country has ever had.
> 
> [youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/EbJtgpS2Jjc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/EbJtgpS2Jjc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> [/youtube]
> 
> and perhaps someone can explain to me why this man in the video, who is clearly McCain seems to have all his teeth, and those teeth seem to be in pretty good shape AND he's limping slightly, probably from breaking his leg in the plane crash and he's able to properly salute.
> 
> It seems from this footage that McCain's injuries weren't as severe as some would have us believe



So you're a doctor?


----------

