# #1 problem with USA? Compare Japan disaster vs NO/Katrina



## bucs90

We are seeing an absolutely perfect contrast and comparison in two cultures. And it shows the #1 problem our country faces. It's bigger than healthcare, bigger than the economy, bigger than terrorism, bigger than global warming or gas prices or Obama or Palin or unions or guns or flying spaghetti monsters.

It is a simple lack of morality, respect, integrity, self-discipline and personal accountability.

This disaster in Japan is 10X WORSE than Katrina was for New Orleans. Easily.

Yet, the Japanese are not looting, not killing each other, not shooting at rescue helicopters, not calling their president, or ours, racist. They are in a horrible situation, and acting with as much class as anyone could expect in such a situation.

Meanwhile, our people are in a near riot over having to actually pay a small bit towards their own pension and insurance. 

We could learn a lot about how to behave and handle adversity from the Japanese right now. Remember Katrina? Remember the LA riots?


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## Tank

Replace black people with Japanese ones?


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## Liberty

i can't disagree. maybe if the USA was on an island, with 1/3 as many people and 2000+ years of history shared amongst all the citizens it would be more similar. alas, we are a young country and are simply losing the American identity to those who would seek division. *glares at race baiting liberalls* that is all from me.


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## bucs90

Nah, I think it's more about culture than race. I mean look at the unions in Wisconsin! 99.9% white people. And in the 2nd worst economic situation in American history, they are near rioting over having to pay a few %'s more for their own pension and insurance....while STILL paying less than the private sector. We have the Starbucks Baristas Union striking in some spots (Its a real union). We have people filing lawsuits over getting their feelings hurt. Our society has just become selfish, fat, lazy, whiny, easily offended morons.

But yeah, look at how the people of New Orleans reacted to disaster compared the those in Japan. Cultural differences are blinding they are so bright.


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## bucs90

Liberty said:


> i can't disagree. maybe if the USA was on an island, with 1/3 as many people and 2000+ years of history shared amongst all the citizens it would be more similar. alas, we are a young country and are simply losing the American identity to those who would seek division. *glares at race baiting liberalls* that is all from me.



Good point.

I think the forced diversity of our country is part of the issue. Everyone wants to be part of their own special victimized group. It's actually desirable to be considered an oppressed or victimized group. In other cultures, it is dishonorable to show mental weakness in that way. Our country moved beyond racial and gender discrimination, and have laws to protect against that. But my God, we've gotten so obsessed with it that we think we are owed everything by everyone because of our race, gender, ethnicity, social group, income class, geographical location, etc, etc, etc. We've lost our sense of community, because we've been forced to diversify our community so much that it no longer has identity. That chips away at a sense of "us" and creates a free-for-all of individuals acting only on their on behalf.


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## boedicca

This is not a race issue - it is cultural.

Compare and contrast this:

_Amid the horror and devastation of the nuclear crisis in Japan, it can be easy to miss the heroism of the 50 emergency workers trying to prevent the full meltdown of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear facility. It's not exaggeration to say that the safety of thousands of Japanese citizens hinges on the efforts of the crew of cleanup workers left behind after the remainder of the facility's roughly 800 employees have been evacuated amid hazardous levels of radiation. Even in a culture that places a premium on self-sacrifice, these ordinary workers are being extraordinarily selfless -- and could conceivably make the ultimate sacrifice for their fellow citizens' well-being.

Who these 50 workers are remains something of a mystery. Their employer, the Tokyo Electric Company, has not provided their details. But after a new explosion at the plant this morning, their fate may be becoming more perilous by the minute. As nuclear power consultant Arnold Gundersen told the New York Times, it's likely the company has approached older plant retirees with a sobering invitation to reinforce the plant safety crew. Plant managers "may also be asking for people to volunteer to receive additional exposure,"  Gundersen told the Times' Henry Fountain._

Japanese nuclear plant workers emerging as heroic figures in tragedy - Yahoo! News

with this:

_Union thuggery against Althouse and Meade: "We will hang up wanted posters of you everywhere you like to go."

"We will picket on public property as close to your house as we can every day. We will harrass the ever loving shit out of you all the time. Campus is OCCUPIED. State street is OCCUPIED. The Square is OCCUPIED. Vilas, Schenk's Corners, Atwood, Willy Street  Occupied, Occupied, Occupied, Occupied. Did you really think it was all about the Capitol? Fuck the Capitol, we are the CITY... We have the numbers and we don't back down from anyone. We all know each other. We all know each other. We know each other from Service Industry Night at the Orpheum, because we're regulars at the same coffee shops, restaurants and bars, we know each other from the co-ops, we know each other because we've had a million jobs each (and we all worked at CapTel at least once), because we live in every shitty townie house in ever-changing groups of 2  7 people, because we are young and horny and screw each other incessantly, because we're all on facebook, and because we aren't anti-social, life-denying, world-sterilizing pieces of human garbage like the two of you. WE WILL FUCK YOU UP. We will throw our baseballs in your lawn, you cranky old pieces of shit, and then we will come get them back. What are you gonna do? Shoot us? Get Wausau Tea Patriots to form an ad hoc militia on your front lawn? That would be fucking HILAROUS to us. You could get to know the assholes on your side in real fucking life instead of sponging off the civil society we provide for you every single day you draw breath."_

Althouse: Union thuggery against Althouse and Meade: "We will hang up wanted posters of you everywhere you like to go."


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## Liberty

yep, to be fair though japan is in much worse economic shape than the USA isnt it? Inflation over there is ridiculous I thought.


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## Liberty

It's pretty embarrassing to be an American these days. The way we handle serious issues, to put nicely, is childish in general. Way too few people have any sort of long-term view of themselves, their family, and the country. It's always right here right now and deal with the consequences when they come later. I think that's part of the problem. And the supreme US federal government really sets the example on that one...


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## boedicca

Japan doesn't suffer from hyperinflation - it suffers from an aging, shrinking population (demographics), low economic growth, and enormous government debt relative to GDP (200%+).

They are proof that Keynesianism is an Epic Fail.


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## Liberty

boedicca said:


> Japan doesn't suffer from hyperinflation - it suffers from an aging, shrinking population (demographics), low economic growth, and enormous government debt relative to GDP (200%+).
> 
> They are proof that Keynesianism is an Epic Fail.



Ah, yeah that is my conclusion too. Hazlitt > Keynes any day.


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## bucs90

Liberty said:


> It's pretty embarrassing to be an American these days. The way we handle serious issues, to put nicely, is childish in general. Way too few people have any sort of long-term view of themselves, their family, and the country. It's always right here right now and deal with the consequences when they come later. I think that's part of the problem. And the supreme US federal government really sets the example on that one...



In a way it's a compliment to our great nation. It's a compliment to capitalism, to our military, to our police, etc, that we built a country so rich, so safe, so secure, so free that we can be worried about stupid shit that we do worry about. That we can get so fat, so soft, so spoiled, so pampered that mere spoken sound waves can offend us more than we've ever been offended before........in an ironic way, our greatness is proven through the absolute lack of necessary survival skills our citizens have.


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## Liberty

thats true.


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## Flopper

There's reason why tsunami is a Japanese word.


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## Political Junky

bucs90 said:


> We are seeing an absolutely perfect contrast and comparison in two cultures. And it shows the #1 problem our country faces. It's bigger than healthcare, bigger than the economy, bigger than terrorism, bigger than global warming or gas prices or Obama or Palin or unions or guns or flying spaghetti monsters.
> 
> It is a simple lack of morality, respect, integrity, self-discipline and personal accountability.
> 
> This disaster in Japan is 10X WORSE than Katrina was for New Orleans. Easily.
> 
> Yet, the Japanese are not looting, not killing each other, not shooting at rescue helicopters, not calling their president, or ours, racist. They are in a horrible situation, and acting with as much class as anyone could expect in such a situation.
> 
> Meanwhile, our people are in a near riot over having to actually pay a small bit towards their own pension and insurance.
> 
> We could learn a lot about how to behave and handle adversity from the Japanese right now. Remember Katrina? Remember the LA riots?


You're quoting Glenn Beck, but you're both wrong. I saw instances of looting in Japan on TV.


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## xsited1

Political Junky said:


> ...
> 
> You're quoting Glenn Beck, but you're both wrong. I saw instances of looting in Japan on TV.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9zRc6z8JbU



The two black people in Japan must've done this.  You know it's true!


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## bucs90

OH,,,,,you're right. I did see those Japanese people smashing windows, stealing Nike Air Jordan shoes, plasma big screen TVs, jewelry, etc, etc.

And it was O'Reilly who motivated my post, not Beck.


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## bucs90

BTW, it looks like it was food being taken. Not basketball shoes and TV's.


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## bucs90

Flopper said:


> There's reason why tsunami is a Japanese word.



Yep. Because no American would be able to spell it, so Asians had to come up with it.


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## Political Junky

bucs90 said:


> BTW, it looks like it was food being taken. Not basketball shoes and TV's.


So, you're OK with looting *some* things.


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## FA_Q2

Political Junky said:


> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, it looks like it was food being taken. Not basketball shoes and TV's.
> 
> 
> 
> So, you're OK with looting *some* things.
Click to expand...


It is a question of magnitude.  There is VERY little looting in Japan after such a disaster.  Here, we loot entire cities if someone gets beat up by the cops.  There is a STARK difference between the two situations.  

All this can be broken down to two little words: personal responsibility.  We have lost it and need to get it back.


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## Douger

bucs90 said:


> Liberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's pretty embarrassing to be an American these days. The way we handle serious issues, to put nicely, is childish in general. Way too few people have any sort of long-term view of themselves, their family, and the country. It's always right here right now and deal with the consequences when they come later. I think that's part of the problem. And the supreme US federal government really sets the example on that one...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a way it's a compliment to our great nation. It's a compliment to capitalism, to our military, to our police, etc, that we built a country so rich, so safe, so secure, so free that we can be worried about stupid shit that we do worry about. That we can get so fat, so soft, so spoiled, so pampered that mere spoken sound waves can offend us more than we've ever been offended before........in an ironic way, our greatness is proven through the absolute lack of necessary survival skills our citizens have.
Click to expand...

Which leads you to a demise never witnessed before.


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## The T

boedicca said:


> Japan doesn't suffer from hyperinflation - it suffers from an aging, shrinking population (demographics), low economic growth, and enormous government debt relative to GDP (200%+).
> 
> They are proof that Keynesianism is an Epic Fail.


 
And Japan is the second largest holder of US Debt...

[SNIP]

Meanwhile, Japan continued its net buying of Treasurys, hitting another record level in January. Japan remained the second-largest holder of Treasurys, boosting its holdings to $885.9 billion from $882.3 billion in December. It's unclear yet what the full impact of the country's earthquake and tsunami will be on U.S. capital flows, but there are widespread reports of repatriation of funds to help shore up the nation as its recovers from its catastrophe. 

Before a congressional panel later Tuesday, U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said Japan is capable of handling the cost of recovering from the earthquake and tsunami and won't have to resort to selling Treasury securities. 

[/SNIP]

*LINK*


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## mudwhistle

Political Junky said:


> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We are seeing an absolutely perfect contrast and comparison in two cultures. And it shows the #1 problem our country faces. It's bigger than healthcare, bigger than the economy, bigger than terrorism, bigger than global warming or gas prices or Obama or Palin or unions or guns or flying spaghetti monsters.
> 
> It is a simple lack of morality, respect, integrity, self-discipline and personal accountability.
> 
> This disaster in Japan is 10X WORSE than Katrina was for New Orleans. Easily.
> 
> Yet, the Japanese are not looting, not killing each other, not shooting at rescue helicopters, not calling their president, or ours, racist. They are in a horrible situation, and acting with as much class as anyone could expect in such a situation.
> 
> Meanwhile, our people are in a near riot over having to actually pay a small bit towards their own pension and insurance.
> 
> We could learn a lot about how to behave and handle adversity from the Japanese right now. Remember Katrina? Remember the LA riots?
> 
> 
> 
> You're quoting Glenn Beck, but you're both wrong. I saw instances of looting in Japan on TV.
Click to expand...


Wow. Somebody found some looting. Took awhile though. 

I don't understand Japanese. What were those guys talking about? That the perps got chucked in jail for stealing? 

I think it's possible that there was somebody caught looting. Course nobody has any videos of massed crowds carrying off priceless works of art like they did in Iraq after Saddam fell, or Plazma screen TVs like they do in the US after every Rodney King beating or natural disaster. 

The point is that this kind of thing isn't accepted in Japan. Chances are the looters would get their asses beat by crowds instead of getting away with it.


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## Douger

Tokyo workers start busy day with soothing tai chi | Reuters


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## Douger

murkins start the day.........


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## mudwhistle

Douger said:


> murkins start the day.........
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvU3m3oHS1s



Now they need bouncers at Dunkin Donuts. 

Bitch, just give her her cigarettes next time.


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## Ravi

> That reflects the Japanese value of unquestioningly following the orders of a leader, a master or an employer.
> 
> 
> Whether  a 17th-century swordsman in the service of a local warlord or a  21st-century turbine engineer, Japanese are brought up with a strong  sense of fealty and duty.


Wearing goggles and duct tape, workers race to repair reactor | Reuters

The Japanese do not value individualism, rather they value the collective whole.

Not that there's anything wrong with it but it is pretty funny watching the rightwingloons wanting to be more like a collectivist, obedient society and less like a democracy, warts and all.


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## editec

These sorts of national comparisons, while sort of valid, are also wildly misleading.

They invite us to simplify WHY nations have such different characters, usually with the idea of leading us to the author's highly simplified conclusion.

What makes a national character?

Well first of all, the idea that there is a national character is moot, because character (even national , social or cultural characters) can change over time as circumstances change.

But the character that appears to us to exist _at the moment?_

Eeerything they are, now, and everything they ever were, everything that is happening to them now, and everthing happened to them leads to what some of us think is their national character.

More succinctly put:

*National character manifests as the the sum total of a people's ENTIRE history plays our within the state of affairs in which they currently find themselves.*


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## skookerasbil

Definately the culture.........in Japan, you dont have this progressive/entitlement mentality like you have here in the US. Can bring some pronounced nausea if you think about it enough............

What a fcukking disgrace.............

ps.....Katrina was a damn rainstorm by comparison...........


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## skookerasbil

editec said:


> These sorts of national comparisons, while sort of valid, are also wildly misleading.
> 
> They invite us to simplify WHY nations have such different characters, usually with the idea of leading us to the author's highly simplified conclusion.
> 
> What makes a national character?
> 
> Well first of all, the idea that there is a national character is moot, because character (even national , social or cultural characters) can change over time as circumstances change.
> 
> But the character that appears to us to exist _at the moment?_
> 
> Eeerything they are, now, and everything they ever were, everything that is happening to them now, and everthing happened to them leads to what some of us think is their national character.
> 
> More succinctly put:
> 
> *National character manifests as the the sum total of a people's ENTIRE history plays our within the state of affairs in which they currently find themselves.*




fAiL.......the sentiments of the progressive k00ks.


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## Harry Dresden

bucs90 said:


> We are seeing an absolutely perfect contrast and comparison in two cultures. And it shows the #1 problem our country faces. It's bigger than healthcare, bigger than the economy, bigger than terrorism, bigger than global warming or gas prices or Obama or Palin or unions or guns or flying spaghetti monsters.
> 
> It is a simple lack of morality, respect, integrity, self-discipline and personal accountability.
> 
> This disaster in Japan is 10X WORSE than Katrina was for New Orleans. Easily.
> 
> Yet, the Japanese are not looting, not killing each other, not shooting at rescue helicopters, not calling their president, or ours, racist. They are in a horrible situation, and acting with as much class as anyone could expect in such a situation.
> 
> Meanwhile, our people are in a near riot over having to actually pay a small bit towards their own pension and insurance.
> 
> We could learn a lot about how to behave and handle adversity from the Japanese right now. Remember Katrina? Remember the LA riots?



never happen Buc....we have to many different types of people here......the Japs are BASICALLY all on the same page with a small portion being a page ahead or behind......in this country to many people are not only on a different page but are in a different chapter....


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## Harry Dresden

Liberty said:


> It's pretty embarrassing to be an American these days. The way we handle serious issues, to put nicely, is childish in general. Way too few people have any sort of long-term view of themselves, their family, and the country. It's always right here right now and deal with the consequences when they come later. I think that's part of the problem. And the supreme US federal government really sets the example on that one...



its called lack of leadership.....and the guy in the center chair is....well lets just say....he aint much of a leader....but then neither are the other "leaders" in the Country at the moment....hopefully that will change in time.....this Country needs leadership.....not "squabbleship"....


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## 8537

boedicca said:


> They are proof that Keynesianism is an Epic Fail.



When did the Japanese attempt Keynesian economic policy?

<Hint: the closest Japan ever got to Keynesian strategies was the postwar period.>


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## Harry Dresden

Douger said:


> murkins start the day.........
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvU3m3oHS1s



and you start the day picking up horse shit.....so whats your point?.....


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## bodecea

Can you imagine all the people on this thread giving up against the Japanese in WWII?


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## The Rabbi

boedicca said:


> This is not a race issue - it is cultural.
> 
> ]



Unfortunately inner city blacks seem to share the same culture, one not much shared by whites. It is a culture of "sticking it to Da Man" and get while the getting is good.
BUt the Japanese have a very different culture.  So what?  We sure don't want to be like them.  That myth was destroyed in the early 1980s I think.


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## mudwhistle

Ravi said:


> That reflects the Japanese value of unquestioningly following the orders of a leader, a master or an employer.
> 
> 
> Whether  a 17th-century swordsman in the service of a local warlord or a  21st-century turbine engineer, Japanese are brought up with a strong  sense of fealty and duty.
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing goggles and duct tape, workers race to repair reactor | Reuters
> 
> The Japanese do not value individualism, rather they value the collective whole.
> 
> Not that there's anything wrong with it but it is pretty funny watching the rightwingloons wanting to be more like a collectivist, obedient society and less like a democracy, warts and all.
Click to expand...


You're confusing a Borg-like mentality with working toward a common good. 

What's the use of bitching and pointing fingers when there's work to be done?

Once things are back to normal then you can speculate who was at fault, not during an emergency. It's plain to see that Japanese society is better suited to handling emergencies then the United Nations, a prime example of the faults inherent in true Democracies.


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## Ravi

mudwhistle said:


> *What's the use of bitching and pointing fingers *when there's work to be done?


No idea, and yet it is all you ever do.


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## Valerie

How come people want to turn a blind eye to all the good things American communities have done to come together during a crisis?  Why harp on only one element of one situation?  


How about every community who sent help to NYC after 9/11 or all of the other communities across the country who always come together during natural disasters such as massive flooding, hurricanes, tornadoes, blizzards, etc...?

How about all the financial aid our tax dollars provide for all sorts of crises around the country and around the world...?


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## boedicca

FA_Q2 said:


> Political Junky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, it looks like it was food being taken. Not basketball shoes and TV's.
> 
> 
> 
> So, you're OK with looting *some* things.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is a question of magnitude.  There is VERY little looting in Japan after such a disaster.  Here, we loot entire cities if someone gets beat up by the cops.  There is a STARK difference between the two situations.
> 
> All this can be broken down to two little words: personal responsibility.  We have lost it and need to get it back.
Click to expand...



Here we loot cities if when somebody wins the Superbowl.

Go figure.


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## bodecea

Valerie said:


> How come people want to turn a blind eye to all the good things American communities have done to come together during a crisis?  Why harp on only one element of one situation?
> 
> 
> How about every community who sent help to NYC after 9/11 or all of the other communities across the country who always come together during natural disasters such as massive flooding, hurricanes, tornadoes, blizzards, etc...?
> 
> How about all the financial aid our tax dollars provide for all sorts of crises around the country and around the world...?



Apparently, they are no longer proud to be American.


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## boedicca

mudwhistle said:


> Once things are back to normal then you can speculate who was at fault, not during an emergency. It's plain to see that Japanese society is better suited to handling emergencies then the United Nations, a prime example of the faults inherent in true Democracies.




The United Nations is not a democracy.  It's a club for the legitimization and mutual protection of thugocracies around the world.  

The few free societies which belong to it provide a veneer of respectability.  We're chumps to do so.


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## Valerie

Oh, isn't America just sooo awful!  






> This Is USAID
> 
> The United States has a long history of extending a helping hand to those people overseas struggling to make a better life, recover from a disaster or striving to live in a free and democratic country. It is this caring that stands as a hallmark of the United States around the world -- and shows the world our true character as a nation.
> 
> U.S. foreign assistance has always had the twofold purpose of furthering America's foreign policy interests in expanding democracy and free markets while improving the lives of the citizens of the developing world. Spending less than one-half of 1 percent of the federal budget, USAID works around the world to achieve these goals.
> 
> USAID's history goes back to the Marshall Plan reconstruction of Europe after World War Two and the Truman Administration's Point Four Program. In 1961, the Foreign Assistance Act was signed into law and USAID was created by executive order.
> 
> Since that time, USAID has been the principal U.S. agency to extend assistance to countries recovering from disaster, trying to escape poverty, and engaging in democratic reforms.
> 
> USAID is an independent federal government agency that receives overall foreign policy guidance from the Secretary of State. Our Work supports long-term and equitable economic growth and advances U.S. foreign policy objectives by supporting:
> 
> * economic growth, agriculture and trade;
> * global health; and,
> * democracy, conflict prevention and humanitarian assistance.
> 
> We provide assistance in five regions of the world:
> 
> * Sub-Saharan Africa;
> * Asia;
> * Latin America and the Caribbean,
> * Europe and Eurasia; and
> * The Middle East.
> 
> With headquarters in Washington, D.C., USAID's strength is its field offices around the world. We work in close partnership with private voluntary organizations, indigenous organizations, universities, American businesses, international agencies, other governments, and other U.S. government agencies. USAID has working relationships with more than 3,500 American companies and over 300 U.S.-based private voluntary organizations.
> 
> For more information on our business and procurement opportunities, please visit our Business section. If you would like to know more about employment opportunities with USAID, please visit our Careers section of our web site.
> 
> U.S. Agency for International Development


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## boedicca

8537 said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are proof that Keynesianism is an Epic Fail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When did the Japanese attempt Keynesian economic policy?
> 
> <Hint: the closest Japan ever got to Keynesian strategies was the postwar period.>
Click to expand...



Were you in a coma in the 1990s?   

_To be clear, the Keynesian Endgame is a scenario whereby big government intervention (known in academic circles as "countercyclical government stimulus") in the form deficit spending, debt buildup, and cheap money monetary policy fail to produce the desired results. Instead, it produces depressed growth rates, which we have seen from Japan over the past two decades._

How Keynes failed Japan - Fortune Finance

If you knew how to use a search engine, you could find many articles such as this one for 2009:

_apan's debt-laden government said Monday it planned a new round of stimulus spending worth more than 31 billion US dollars to prop up a feeble economic recovery that is threatened by the strong yen.

Japan, which has this year been digging itself out of its worst post-war recession, now faces the threat of the yen trading at a 14-year high against the dollar, which hurts the profits of exporters such as Toyota and Sony.

Prime Minister Yukio Hatoyama at the weekend ordered his cabinet to work out measures to cope with the surging yen and its effects on the stock market.
Advertisement: Story continues below

Chief government spokesman Hirofumi Hirano Monday announced spending of "no less than 2.7 trillion yen (31 billion US dollars)," calling it "policy action in view of the strengthening yen and problems surrounding share prices."

It would be the second extra budget for the current fiscal year to March 2010, reinforcing a market view that government bond issuance for the year would by far exceed the initially planned 44 trillion yen.

The spending will further stretch state coffers in Japan, which already has a massive public debt after trying to spend its way out of the economic "lost decade" of the 1990s with a series of large stimulus packages.

*The outstanding balance of state debt reached 864.5 trillion yen at the end of September -- some 180 percent of expected gross domestic product for the 2009 fiscal year, according to the finance ministry...*._

Japan's debt-ridden govt plans new stimulus


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## boedicca

More on Japan's failed Keynesian Stimulus policies:

_To review a little history: After a stunning rise in Japan's real-estate and stock prices in the 1980s, both bubbles burst to create a mess similar to the one the United States. is experiencing now. Over the next several years, the Japanese government launched several stimulus packages to jump start the economy through public-works projects and loan programs. And yet from 1996 to 2002, the country's economy stalled: per capita GDP grew a paltry 0.2%.

...

For one thing, there was dubious logic behind too many of Japan's infrastructure projects. "It was the epitome of bridges to nowhere," says economist Ed Lincoln, director of the Center for Japan-U.S. Business and Economic Studies at New York University. "There was apparently a $2 billion bridge built to an island of 800 people."

And even before the financial crisis hit, Japan was wasting money on pork-barrel projects, so by the time the Japanese ramped up spending in the 1990s, they had run out of worthy projects to fund. The United States, by comparison, has a long list of needy spots. (Witness the Minneapolis bridge collapse in 2007.)

Lincoln adds that at its peak in the 1990s, the government was spending 8% of GDP on public works projects. By comparison, the United States now spends about 3% - even several hundred billion dollars in proposed projects would not get the United States to Japan's peak....

...

*One thing is certain: Japan still faces a mountain of debt from all its spending; debt is now around 200% of GDP, vs. 45% for the U.S. And the U.S. can count on a similar situation if it embarks on more big-government spending.[/b[*_*

Myths and truths about Japan's stimulus - Jan. 21, 2009



And tragically for the U.S., Obama is bound and determined to emulate Japan.  Note, our debt level is now 100% of GDP.*


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## bodecea

Harry Dresden said:


> Liberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's pretty embarrassing to be an American these days. The way we handle serious issues, to put nicely, is childish in general. Way too few people have any sort of long-term view of themselves, their family, and the country. It's always right here right now and deal with the consequences when they come later. I think that's part of the problem. And the supreme US federal government really sets the example on that one...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> its called lack of leadership.....and the guy in the center chair is....well lets just say....he aint much of a leader....but then neither are the other "leaders" in the Country at the moment....hopefully that will change in time.....this Country needs leadership.....not "squabbleship"....
Click to expand...


You, of course, are slamming the guy in the center chair during Katrina, right?


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## 8537

boedicca said:


> 8537 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are proof that Keynesianism is an Epic Fail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When did the Japanese attempt Keynesian economic policy?
> 
> <Hint: the closest Japan ever got to Keynesian strategies was the postwar period.>
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Were you in a coma in the 1990s?
Click to expand...


No.



> _To be clear, the Keynesian Endgame is a scenario whereby big government intervention (known in academic circles as "countercyclical government stimulus") in the form deficit spending, debt buildup, and cheap money monetary policy fail to produce the desired results. Instead, it produces depressed growth rates, which we have seen from Japan over the past two decades._



^This is not a description of Keynesian policies.




> How Keynes failed Japan - Fortune Finance
> 
> If you knew how to use a search engine, you could find many articles such as this one for 2009:
> 
> _apan's debt-laden government said Monday it planned a new round of stimulus spending worth more than 31 billion US dollars to prop up a feeble economic recovery that is threatened by the strong yen._


_

That's not Keynesian economic policy.




			Japan, which has this year been digging itself out of its worst post-war recession, now faces the threat of the yen trading at a 14-year high against the dollar, which hurts the profits of exporters such as Toyota and Sony.

Prime Minister Yukio Hatoyama at the weekend ordered his cabinet to work out measures to cope with the surging yen and its effects on the stock market.
Advertisement: Story continues below

Chief government spokesman Hirofumi Hirano Monday announced spending of "no less than 2.7 trillion yen (31 billion US dollars)," calling it "policy action in view of the strengthening yen and problems surrounding share prices."
		
Click to expand...



I'm afraid you actually think any of the above is Keynesian policy.

Hint:  It's not._


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## The Rabbi

What you know about economics could be fit into the letter o in the word "idiot."



8537 said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8537 said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did the Japanese attempt Keynesian economic policy?
> 
> <Hint: the closest Japan ever got to Keynesian strategies was the postwar period.>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Were you in a coma in the 1990s?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> 
> 
> ^This is not a description of Keynesian policies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How Keynes failed Japan - Fortune Finance
> 
> If you knew how to use a search engine, you could find many articles such as this one for 2009:
> 
> _apan's debt-laden government said Monday it planned a new round of stimulus spending worth more than 31 billion US dollars to prop up a feeble economic recovery that is threatened by the strong yen._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> 
> That's not Keynesian economic policy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Japan, which has this year been digging itself out of its worst post-war recession, now faces the threat of the yen trading at a 14-year high against the dollar, which hurts the profits of exporters such as Toyota and Sony.
> 
> Prime Minister Yukio Hatoyama at the weekend ordered his cabinet to work out measures to cope with the surging yen and its effects on the stock market.
> Advertisement: Story continues below
> 
> Chief government spokesman Hirofumi Hirano Monday announced spending of "no less than 2.7 trillion yen (31 billion US dollars)," calling it "policy action in view of the strengthening yen and problems surrounding share prices."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm afraid you actually think any of the above is Keynesian policy.
> 
> Hint:  It's not._
Click to expand...


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## 8537

The Rabbi said:


> What you know about economics could be fit into the letter o in the word "idiot."


Sadly, it appears the rabbit has chose to take me off ignore in order to spew his ignorance.

Did you have something constructive to add?


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## The Rabbi

8537 said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> 
> What you know about economics could be fit into the letter o in the word "idiot."
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly, it appears the rabbit has chose to take me off ignore in order to spew his ignorance.
> 
> Did you have something constructive to add?
Click to expand...


Yes.  You're an ignoramus.  Virtually everything you post on economics is woefully uininformed and simply incorrect.  Someone reading your posts would do well to think the opposite and they would likely be right.


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## Harry Dresden

bodecea said:


> Can you imagine all the people on this thread giving up against the Japanese in WWII?



yea im sure that would have gave the Japanese a big advantage.....the numbers are just staggering....


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## Harry Dresden

bodecea said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's pretty embarrassing to be an American these days. The way we handle serious issues, to put nicely, is childish in general. Way too few people have any sort of long-term view of themselves, their family, and the country. It's always right here right now and deal with the consequences when they come later. I think that's part of the problem. And the supreme US federal government really sets the example on that one...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> its called lack of leadership.....and the guy in the center chair is....well lets just say....he aint much of a leader....but then neither are the other "leaders" in the Country at the moment....hopefully that will change in time.....this Country needs leadership.....not "squabbleship"....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You, of course, are slamming the guy in the center chair during Katrina, right?
Click to expand...


i have said more than once that Bush and Obama were and are, two piss poor leaders......Bill Clinton had more leadership in his Pecker, then both of those clowns combined, have in their whole being.....


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