# What do Canadians think?



## MrMarbles (Nov 3, 2004)

What do the Canadians on this board think of the result of the elections in the US? What does and will this mean to us?


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## Isaac Brock (Nov 3, 2004)

Well it's no secret that most of Canada wanted Kerry to win, myself included, but we do not vote for US politicians.  Americans have democratically spoken both in term of electoral and popular vote.  Democracy has been justly served.

I hope the next 4 years with President Bush will be more fruitful diplomatically and economically than the last 4 with Canada.  Neither nation would want a throwback to LBJ/Nixon days.

I hope the US administration under Bush will:
- Re-open the border to Canadian beef
- Stop harassing the CWB after the WTO has already ruled
- Find a better compromise to Canadian sovereignty and immigration
- Stop ANWAR drilling
- Will abandon plans for missle defence with Canada as part of the shield
- Stop overfishing salmon joint waters off the west coast
- Recognize Canadian claims in the Arctic

I hope the Canadian administration under Martin will:
- Stop having high level bureaucrats and MP's verbally accost Bush and the US
- Understand that the US is right on stumping fees for softwood lumber
- Be more clear into Canadian positions on foreign policy
- Improve and reform the military to actually be an asset for our allies
- Integrate intelligence institutions with the US

One can only hope for ties as strong as they were with Regan-Bush/Mulroney and Chretien/Clinton.


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## Wolfe (Nov 3, 2004)

Isaac,
I can say I had hoped for  Kerry win but alas it is not to be. What we can expct is more of the same. Bush has never liked Canada and that won't change. Yes our government should quit insulting him in public. He should get the hell out of Iraq for starters.


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## Said1 (Nov 3, 2004)

Wolfe said:
			
		

> Isaac,
> I can say I had hoped for  Kerry win but alas it is not to be. What we can expct is more of the same. Bush has never liked Canada and tha won't change. Yes our governmebt should quit insulting him in public. He should get the hell out of Iraq for starters.




Parrish is not the entire government.


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## Isaac Brock (Nov 3, 2004)

Wolfe said:
			
		

> Isaac,
> I can say I had hoped for  Kerry win but alas it is not to be. What we can expct is more of the same. Bush has never liked Canada and tha won't change. Yes our governmebt should quit insulting him in public. He should get the hell out of Iraq for starters.



We shall see.  Though Canada needs the US more than the US needs Canada, the economic performance of the US is directly influenced by its relations with Canada.  It is in everyone's best interest to have good relations, but there is always a cost.


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## MrMarbles (Nov 4, 2004)

Isaac Brock said:
			
		

> We shall see.  Though Canada needs the US more than the US needs Canada, the economic performance of the US is directly influenced by its relations with Canada.  It is in everyone's best interest to have good relations, but there is always a cost.



I'm all for helping and working with America, as long as it does not compromise our ideals.

I don't think things between Bush and Martin will get too warm. They are of different molds. Regan/Mulroney, both conservatives, Clinton/Chretien, both liberal, Bush/Martin, one mean martini.


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## Said1 (Nov 4, 2004)

MrMarbles said:
			
		

> I'm all for helping and working with America, as long as it does not compromise our ideals.
> 
> I don't think things between Bush and Martin will get too warm. They are of different molds. Regan/Mulroney, both conservatives, Clinton/Chretien, both liberal, Bush/Martin, one mean martini.



I don't know, Martin and Bush may be a better match then Chretien/Bush. I think Martin will prove to be little more right leaning than we may think.I guess we'll see over the next few months exactly how well they are going to work together.


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## 5stringJeff (Nov 4, 2004)

Isaac Brock said:
			
		

> Well it's no secret that most of Canada wanted Kerry to win, myself included, but we do not vote for US politicians.  Americans have democratically spoken both in term of electoral and popular vote.  Democracy has been justly served.
> 
> I hope the next 4 years with President Bush will be more fruitful diplomatically and economically than the last 4 with Canada.  Neither nation would want a throwback to LBJ/Nixon days.
> 
> ...



Isaac, I'll have to admit ignorance on a couple of these.  Specifically, what Arctic claims is the US not recognizing?  And what are the problems between the US and Canada regarding immigration, other than our borders being too open?
And, just so you know, we never started drilling in ANWR.
All things said, though, the US has no more natural ally than Canada.  I hope our two countries always look for ways to help each other.


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## freeandfun1 (Nov 4, 2004)

gop_jeff said:
			
		

> Isaac, I'll have to admit ignorance on a couple of these.  Specifically, what Arctic claims is the US not recognizing?  And what are the problems between the US and Canada regarding immigration, other than our borders being too open?
> And, just so you know, we never started drilling in ANWR.
> All things said, though, the US has no more natural ally than Canada.  I hope our two countries always look for ways to help each other.



And even if we were drilling in ANWAR, how does that affect Canada?  You guys have your own oil wells in Artic regions, so why can't we???????


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## Shattered (Nov 4, 2004)

MrMarbles said:
			
		

> What do the Canadians on this board think of the result of the elections in the US? What does and will this mean to us?



Well, I know of one that instantly became suicidal...


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## Said1 (Nov 4, 2004)

Shattered said:
			
		

> Well, I know of one that instantly became suicidal...




Who?


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## Shattered (Nov 4, 2004)

Said1 said:
			
		

> Who?



Nobody from here...


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## Said1 (Nov 4, 2004)

Shattered said:
			
		

> Nobody from here...




I was kidding, sorta like "Do you know Bob from the states? He's American".


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## Shattered (Nov 4, 2004)

Said1 said:
			
		

> I was kidding, sorta like "Do you know Bob from the states? He's American".



Well, ya forgot the smiley face, and since I'm (still) on the phone with the phone company over a damn email problem, I'm a bit testy (to say the least).  

Grrrrrrrrr.

She mentioned something about getting drunk and jumping off a roof... But, she tends to overreact like that...


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## Said1 (Nov 4, 2004)

Shattered said:
			
		

> Well, ya forgot the smiley face, and since I'm (still) on the phone with the phone company over a damn email problem, I'm a bit testy (to say the least).
> 
> Grrrrrrrrr.
> 
> She mentioned something about getting drunk and jumping off a roof... But, she tends to overreact like that...


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## Shattered (Nov 4, 2004)

Said1 said:
			
		

>



Gee..can I interest you in a front row seat?  (You have to pay in US funds, tho - Canadian money ain't worth squat.  )


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## Said1 (Nov 4, 2004)

Shattered said:
			
		

> You have to pay in US funds, tho - Canadian money ain't worth squat.




 Touche eh?


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## Shattered (Nov 4, 2004)

Said1 said:
			
		

> Touche eh?



LMAO!!  Caught that, did ya..  Yer good.


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## Said1 (Nov 4, 2004)

Shattered said:
			
		

> LMAO!!  Caught that, did ya..  Yer good.




The cold keeps you alert.


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## Shattered (Nov 4, 2004)

(You have to be male for a minute)


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## Isaac Brock (Nov 4, 2004)

gop_jeff said:
			
		

> Isaac, I'll have to admit ignorance on a couple of these.  Specifically, what Arctic claims is the US not recognizing?  And what are the problems between the US and Canada regarding immigration, other than our borders being too open?
> And, just so you know, we never started drilling in ANWR.
> All things said, though, the US has no more natural ally than Canada.  I hope our two countries always look for ways to help each other.



First jeff, I agree wholeheartedly that Canada should always be and ally and friend of the Unites States.  Disagreements will always happen between friends.

The United States does not recognize the martime exclusion zone in between Canadian arctic islands in the Northwest Territories and Nunavut.  Essentially United States has maintained the right to free travel in those areas should it wish, which includes travel for both commercial and military activity.  Interestingly enough, Canada has little problem with military activity.  CF Navy just wants the US to ask permission and give a route plan, something which it hasn't (though the might change very soon.)  The real bone of contention become commercial shipping.  With the warming of the seas and receeding ice extents, the Northwest Passage will soon be navagable.  Canada does not want this passage to be used for shipping for environmental and cultural reasons (the path goes throught the Inuit self-governing territory).

The main problem with immigration is the the US is proposing only allowing one port of entry between both countries for immigrants.  The means if the US denies citizenship/refugee status, it will not allow travel to Canada for a second claim.  This is not implemented yet, but is strongly recommended by Ambassador Celluci.  The other matter refers to customs deporting Canadian citizens to countries other than Canada.  This has now happened three times and no apology, nor policy change has been implemented.  The US wants these intitutions to be more integrate and Canada is resisting and in my opinion, for good reason.

Lastly, I understand that ANWAR has not begun yet, but correct me if i'm wrong, but a bill has been passed that will allow the possibility for the drilling to occur.  The main reason Canada does not wanting it to happen is because it is very likely that it will impact Caribou migration that is an active source of food and lifestyle for northerner citizens in the Yukon.


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## Isaac Brock (Nov 4, 2004)

freeandfun1 said:
			
		

> And even if we were drilling in ANWAR, how does that affect Canada?  You guys have your own oil wells in Artic regions, so why can't we???????



Actually freeandfun, we have none.  

The closest is the, now defunct, Norman Wells, NWT rigs that were built to supply the US Navy during WW2 for 3 years by means of the Canol Trail and are no longer in use and are not situated in the Arctic but 600km south.  The only other plan is for natural gas development off-shore near the MacKenzie delta.


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## Merlin1047 (Nov 6, 2004)

Wolfe said:
			
		

> Isaac,
> I can say I had hoped for  Kerry win but alas it is not to be. What we can expct is more of the same. Bush has never liked Canada and that won't change. Yes our government should quit insulting him in public. He should get the hell out of Iraq for starters.



First, your assertion that Pres Bush "has never liked Canada" is pure bullshit.

Second, how has our presence in Iraq had any adverse effect on Canada or Canadians?


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## Wolfe (Nov 6, 2004)

Merlin1047 said:
			
		

> First, your assertion that Pres Bush "has never liked Canada" is pure bullshit.
> 
> Second, how has our presence in Iraq had any adverse effect on Canada or Canadians?


Pres. Bush has never had much use for Canadians or Canada since day one of his presidency. Secondly the US is in Iraq to get the oil and to make a presence in the middle east. The US government does not give a damn if democracy ever comes to Iraq.


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## Merlin1047 (Nov 6, 2004)

Isaac Brock said:
			
		

> The United States does not recognize the martime exclusion zone in between Canadian arctic islands in the Northwest Territories and Nunavut.  Essentially United States has maintained the right to free travel in those areas should it wish, which includes travel for both commercial and military activity.  Interestingly enough, Canada has little problem with military activity.  CF Navy just wants the US to ask permission and give a route plan, something which it hasn't (though the might change very soon.)  The real bone of contention become commercial shipping.  With the warming of the seas and receeding ice extents, the Northwest Passage will soon be navagable.  Canada does not want this passage to be used for shipping for environmental and cultural reasons (the path goes throught the Inuit self-governing territory).



Let's broaden that statement just a bit.  Isn't it true that NO nation has recognized either the exclusion zone or the Canadian claim to the North Pole?

And don't you think that it's more than just a little bit ridiculous to prohibit commercial ship traffic simply to avoid upsetting the delicate sensibilities of the local indigenous aborigines?


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## Merlin1047 (Nov 6, 2004)

Wolfe said:
			
		

> Pres. Bush has never had much use for Canadians or Canada since day one of his presidency. Secondly the US is in Iraq to get the oil and make a presence in the middle east.



Piling more bovine fecal material atop the first simply makes the pile higher - it does not make it any more credible.

PROVE your assertion with LINKS to public statements by Pres. Bush.  If you cannot do that, then at least have the honesty to admit that you are simply spouting your opinion and that it is based on nothing more than your personal assessment of Pres. Bush.

And I don't give a caribou's fart about your opinion as to why we are in Iraq.  If you think it's about oil, you're an incurable kool-aid drinker.  My question was "What effect does our presence in Iraq have on Canada or Canadians?".  Your answer did not address that.  Perhaps it's because the answer is "none".


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## Wolfe (Nov 6, 2004)

It may not affect Canadians directly your presence in Iraq but Bush has proven he is a war maker rather than a diplomat. And don't give me crap about the US trying to defend itself. Its only about econoimc gain.


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## Isaac Brock (Nov 6, 2004)

Merlin1047 said:
			
		

> Let's broaden that statement just a bit.  Isn't it true that NO nation has recognized either the exclusion zone or the Canadian claim to the North Pole?
> 
> And don't you think that it's more than just a little bit ridiculous to prohibit commercial ship traffic simply to avoid upsetting the delicate sensibilities of the local indigenous aborigines?



I'm not talking about the North pole.  I'm talking about the maritime zones between Arctic islands ie: Ellesmere Island, Victoria Island, Baffin Island.  The Northwest passage extends from the mouth south of Iqaluit, across Hudson's Bay, up to Resolution, under Victoria island out towards US territorial waters in Alaska and throught the Berring Strait. 

And no I don't it's ridiculous and frankly it's not up to me.  The Northwest Passage travels through self-governed Inuit land.   Under the Nunavut Act in place since 1999, Nunavut has the right to proscribe commerce through it's the sea exculsion zone around Inuit owned land.  If they want to negotiate a right-of-passage treaty, that's up to them.  Given that most of the economical activity in that area relates to whaling, sealing and fishing, I'm sure you can appericate that having large shipping boats travelling through the area will severely impact their way of life and livelihood.


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## Merlin1047 (Nov 6, 2004)

Wolfe said:
			
		

> It may not affect Canadians directly your presence in Iraq but Bush has proven he is a war maker rather than a diplomat. And don't give me crap about the US trying to defend itself. Its only about econoimc gain.



Have it your way.

I cannot discuss an issue with someone who refuses to be rational.


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## Wolfe (Nov 6, 2004)

Someday the US will learn that it cannot bully its way around the world. I would have thought Vietnam was lesson enough. I guess Americans are slow learners in that regard. Perhaps your asses will get kicked a little harder this time.


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## Merlin1047 (Nov 6, 2004)

Wolfe said:
			
		

> Someday the US will learn that it cannot bully its way around the world. I would have thought Vietnam was lesson enough. I guess Americans are slow learners in that regard. Perhaps your asses will get kicked a little harder this time.




And I guess you're an ignorant moron with a big mouth and narrow vision.

An unfortunate and often embarrassing combination.

This conversation is over.  I cannot bear someone determined to be stupid.  There's a saying that applies to attempting to discuss an issue with the likes of you.  It goes "Don't wrestle with pigs.  You only get muddy - and the pig likes it."

Dismissed.


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## Said1 (Nov 6, 2004)

Wolfe said:
			
		

> I would take a look in the mirror when you write stuff like that. What goes around comes around.




Are you drunk? You usually have much more to contribute than you have in this thread.


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## Wolfe (Nov 6, 2004)

Sorry I am completely sober. I over reacted to the thread.


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## Said1 (Nov 6, 2004)

Wolfe said:
			
		

> Sorry I am completely sober. I over reacted to the thread.



What pissed you off so much?


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## Wolfe (Nov 6, 2004)

The American attitude that they own the world and everyone must bow down to them.


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## MrMarbles (Nov 8, 2004)

Funny!


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## MrMarbles (Nov 8, 2004)

Also funny!

http://www.sorryeverybody.com/gallery/1/


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## theim (Nov 8, 2004)

Wolfe said:
			
		

> Someday the US will learn that it cannot bully its way around the world. I would have thought Vietnam was lesson enough. I guess Americans are slow learners in that regard. Perhaps your asses will get kicked a little harder this time.



Do you realize you have just repeated the words, nearly verbatim of Osama bin Laden?! You truly have lost it.

How about you grow a pair and get your ass over to Fallujah and kill some Yankee Imperialist Dogs? When the marines shoot your kneecaps out, just tell em your Canadian. Then they might let you live down in Gitmo for a few years.

you --->  <---marine


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## theim (Nov 8, 2004)

MrMarbles said:
			
		

> Funny!



Take 'em. please?


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## Wolfe (Nov 8, 2004)

theim said:
			
		

> Do you realize you have just repeated the words, nearly verbatim of Osama bin Laden?! You truly have lost it.
> 
> How about you grow a pair and get your ass over to Fallujah and kill some Yankee Imperialist Dogs? When the marines shoot your kneecaps out, just tell em your Canadian. Then they might let you live down in Gitmo for a few years.
> 
> you --->  <---marine


I never knew Bin  Laden said those words and if he truly did then I would not have said it out of respect for Americans. Do you realize that when other people in other countries get mad at Americans its because of the policies of your government? If the average American removed his blinders and looked out at the world through his own eyes and not those of your controlled media that your ideas may be challenged? Do you think I said that because I hate you? No Bin Laden may hate Americans but most Canadians, myself included like Americans. So what is Bush doing in Iraq? Do you really believe he wants to bring democracy to Iraq? I think there is an ulterior motive for being in Iraq. No you won't get your asses booted over there because of the power of the American military. But you will never get the hearts and minds of the Iraqi citizens.


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