# The educational system requires an overhaul



## Damaged Eagle (Sep 6, 2017)

The educational system needs to overhauled, downsized, and have it's funding reduced.

Some steps to accomplish this are:

1. The Department Of Education needs to be downsized and the DOE politurk's positions eliminated.
2. Regulations at all levels need to be reviewed and groomed.
3. Funding at the local, state, and federal, levels need to be reduced.
4. Outsourcing to private industry should be considered.
>>>>>NOTE: It doesn't take a brick and mortar building to educate children in.
5. Educational requirements for educators should be reduced.
>>>>>NOTE: It doesn't take a four year degree to teach children (grades 1-4) basic reading, writing and arithmetic a high school grad can do that. An associates should be good for grades 5-8 and a bachelor's for high school. All these educators should have set wages. If you have a degree higher than those then you should be seeking a different job because you're overeducated for the position you're holding or seeking.
6. If the child has reached high school and is not inclined towards academics then classes for educating them in a skilled profession should be available.

*****SMILE*****


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## cnm (Sep 6, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> have it's funding reduced


Always amusing in threads about education.


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## mgh80 (Sep 8, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> View attachment 147941
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> The educational system needs to overhauled, downsized, and have it's funding reduced.
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Here's what I'm dealing with this year:

-For one of my preps (11th grade English) I was given 48 textbooks for the 82 students I teach (those extra students still have no textbooks after a month into the school year, with no timeline in site of when/if they'll receive them).

-The printer in my room hasn't worked for 2 years now

-My ELMO (overhead projector) has been broken for over a year now after a summer school teacher broken it (I'm able to project images from my computer on the screen, but not papers).

-I'm being paid a stipend of $1,000 for coaching a minimum of 90hours (assuming parents all pick up their kids on time). That's $11/hour....but that doesn't factor in driving to/from meets which I don't get paid for my gas. By the time it's all said and done I end up breaking even for my coaching. Luckily the parents and players I have are all awesome and make the experience worthy of my time, and is one of my favorite parts of my job.

-Despite me ordering new uniforms for my team at the end of last season, we still don't have them at the school (11 months later-literally).

-I have 32 desks in my classroom...two of my classes have more than 32 students enrolled. I will not be receiving the additional desks that I need for kids.

You're going to honestly tell me that there's too much funding going into the schools? Bullshit. The problem isn't the amount of money-it's how the money is spent.

I know what I signed up and you'll never see me whining about how much I make-the above is simply a list of facts...that aren't unique to me and nothing out of the ordinary.


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## BulletProof (Sep 8, 2017)

mgh80 said:


> You know what I had to teach my kids (10th grade) last week? The differences between a verb, noun, adverb, and adjective. You read that correctly.



That's not surprising.  In hindsight, I see my biggest problem in school was that the teachers didn't make the material relevant to me.  I was bored, so I tuned out.  A fifth of high school graduates are illiterate.  Even after gaining literacy, there's still another big jump to logical thinking. Everyone in this forum is reasonably literate, but every single person here who disagrees with me on anything is demonstrating dismal reasoning skills.


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## mgh80 (Sep 8, 2017)

BulletProof said:


> mgh80 said:
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> > You know what I had to teach my kids (10th grade) last week? The differences between a verb, noun, adverb, and adjective. You read that correctly.
> ...



Absolute agree, the problem is that the curriculum (not standards) can be fairly boring for students. 

Luckily I have a lot of autonomy, which not every teacher has. As a teacher I know the needs of my students more than anybody else, and I know how to get them to buy into the work and how to learn...the problem is that many teachers don't have that luxury or opportunity. Personally, I do more practical writing with them (for example I make upperclassman create a resume and cover letter)-and that usually gets them engaged and learning how to write formally, which is something they will obviously need later in life.


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## BulletProof (Sep 8, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> View attachment 147941
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> The educational system needs to overhauled, downsized, and have it's funding reduced.
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It's crazy how much money many public schools get, especially when it has been shown that there's very little benefit from high spending levels.  

Outsourcing to private industry should more than be considered. 

I've always found it funny that a teacher needs a four-year degree to teach grade school kids what every competent high school graduate has long mastered.  Yes, just a two-year degree should be required for grade school.   A private school can skip the four-year degree right now, as well as do countless other things better that the public schools aren't about to change.


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## Unkotare (Sep 8, 2017)

BulletProof said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
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.....


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## BulletProof (Sep 8, 2017)

Unkotare said:


> .....



Cr@p, just after I said everyone in this forum is reasonably literate, Unkotare shows up and proves me wrong.  Alright, I was being generous in my previous statement.  I'm just a generous guy.


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## Damaged Eagle (Sep 8, 2017)

mgh80 said:


> Here's what I'm dealing with this year:
> 
> -For one of my preps (11th grade English) I was given 48 textbooks for the 82 students I teach (those extra students still have no textbooks after a month into the school year, with no timeline in site of when/if they'll receive them).



How often are the text books changed? Every year? Every five years? Every ten years?

If it's every year...

Do you think the subject matter changes that much to justify the cost of getting new text books?

I doubt it.



mgh80 said:


> -The printer in my room hasn't worked for 2 years now



You're getting paid salary. Take the time to troubleshoot it, order the parts, and fix it.



mgh80 said:


> -My ELMO (overhead projector) has been broken for over a year now after a summer school teacher broken it (I'm able to project images from my computer on the screen, but not papers).



 You're getting paid salary. Take the time to troubleshoot it, order the parts, and fix it.



mgh80 said:


> -I'm being paid a stipend of $1,000 for coaching a minimum of 90hours (assuming parents all pick up their kids on time). That's $11/hour....but that doesn't factor in driving to/from meets which I don't get paid for my gas. By the time it's all said and done I end up breaking even for my coaching. Luckily the parents and players I have are all awesome and make the experience worthy of my time, and is one of my favorite parts of my job.



So you're complaining about being paid $11 an hour to babysit younglings. This above and beyond the salary you make. They don't pay for overtime in the military it's a 24/7 job. Most people don't get paid for their gas or time to and from.

So what are you complaining about?



mgh80 said:


> -Despite me ordering new uniforms for my team at the end of last season, we still don't have them at the school (11 months later-literally).



Are they already paid for? Sounds like a cancel and reorder from a different company to me.



mgh80 said:


> -I have 32 desks in my classroom...two of my classes have more than 32 students enrolled. I will not be receiving the additional desks that I need for kids.



Lots of thrift stores sell used desks cheap.



mgh80 said:


> You're going to honestly tell me that there's too much funding going into the schools? Bullshit. The problem isn't the amount of money-it's how the money is spent.



I do believe that's the whole point of my OP.



mgh80 said:


> I know what I signed up and you'll never see me whining about how much I make-the above is simply a list of facts...that aren't unique to me and nothing out of the ordinary.



Sounds to me like you have some rethinking to do about what it means to be paid salary. Even when I applied for a job with a private company (after I retired from thee service) it was a salary job. They told me outright that there was no such thing as overtime pay but they guaranteed that there would be overtime.





*****SMILE*****


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## BulletProof (Sep 8, 2017)

Teachers with not enough textbooks, broken equipment, whatever, that's almost certainly a management or bureaucracy problem, not a lack of funding.


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## Unkotare (Sep 8, 2017)

BulletProof said:


> Unkotare said:
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This from the genius who thinks that the key to improving education is less well educated teachers? Yeah, you've got credibility.....


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## Unkotare (Sep 8, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> mgh80 said:
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> > Here's what I'm dealing with this year:
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Sounds like you understand as little about teaching and coaching as your OP suggested.


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## BulletProof (Sep 8, 2017)

Unkotare said:


> This from the genius who thinks that the key to improving education is less well educated teachers? Yeah, you've got credibility.....



Hey, sh1t-for-brains, "improving education" at any cost is not my goal.  Lowering the degree requirements of teachers can offer significant savings with only a negligible impact on student performance.  Sh1thead, why don't you insist that all grade school teachers have PhDs?


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## Unkotare (Sep 8, 2017)

BulletProof said:


> Unkotare said:
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> > This from the genius who thinks that the key to improving education is less well educated teachers? Yeah, you've got credibility.....
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You just pulled that little notion straight out of your ass.


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## Damaged Eagle (Sep 8, 2017)

Unkotare said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
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I instructed at a training command in the service for over six years.

No one paid me overtime for the collateral duties they assigned. That comes with getting paid salary which means that's all you get for the possible 24/7 work you do. You're only guaranteed one hour sleep and one hot meal a day.

Suck it up if you work for the public school system get to work and quit whining if you have to be on duty during the holiday instead of with your family, because your family wasn't issued to you in your kit.

If you don't like it seek a career in the private sector.

*****SMILE*****


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## gallantwarrior (Sep 8, 2017)

mgh80 said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
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I fully agree that it's not the amount of money spent, but how it is spent that's the problem.  But like so many government run, bloated bureaucracies, too much money is wasted on bullshit and actual education is neglected in favor of funding some politically-motivated pet project shit.  I feel for you.  I just retired from teaching a "university" program (used to be community college) that focuses on a trade skill because I'm getting tired of teaching those entitled to an "A" by virtue of sucking oxygen out of the the same space I do for a required period of time. I love teaching, but what I am required to do anymore isn't teaching, it's ensuring that some snowflake doesn't get its panties in a bunch because I use a word they cannot deal with.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 8, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> View attachment 147941
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> The educational system needs to overhauled, downsized, and have it's funding reduced.
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My comments in blue.


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## DGS49 (Sep 8, 2017)

There is something about the public sector that almost always results in huge inefficiencies.  Money is spent on meaningless bullshit, and savings are sought where spending more would be wise.  I saw it in the Army, and when I worked for DoD as a civilian contract specialist.  Now, working as a volunteer for a "Habitat-like" agency, I see the same thing.  

The only sane solution is to identify the Administrators (principals, usually) who are successful, and try to replicate what they are doing in failing schools.  But this requires flexibility, and the ability to REMOVE THOSE WHO DON'T PRODUCE.  Good luck.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 8, 2017)

DGS49 said:


> There is something about the public sector that almost always results in huge inefficiencies.  Money is spent on meaningless bullshit, and savings are sought where spending more would be wise.  I saw it in the Army, and when I worked for DoD as a civilian contract specialist.  Now, working as a volunteer for a "Habitat-like" agency, I see the same thing.
> 
> The only sane solution is to identify the Administrators (principals, usually) who are successful, and try to replicate what they are doing in failing schools.  But this requires flexibility, and the ability to REMOVE THOSE WHO DON'T PRODUCE.  Good luck.



I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but do you honestly think that has not been tried before and is still being done?

You can be the best principal in the world, but you cannot make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

I have a student that is in two of my classes, because without both, he will not graduate.  He comes to class, and I spend all my time trying to keep his head of his desk or telling him to put his cell phone away.


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## initforme (Sep 8, 2017)

Those of you whining about it could never do it successfully...I stake everything I have on it.


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## Care4all (Sep 8, 2017)

Don't the States run their own schools and have their own State Boards of Education?  Doesn't the federal education funding for state schools K- 12 only include money for poor students school lunches and maybe a little for the federal testing mandates of no child left behind?  Otherwise the fed for k-12 doesn't fund squat?

WHY is this even a federal/national issue when States are who rule their own educational systems???


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## gallantwarrior (Sep 8, 2017)

Care4all said:


> Don't the States run their own schools and have their own State Boards of Education?  Doesn't the federal education funding for state schools K- 12 only include money for poor students school lunches and maybe a little for the federal testing mandates of no child left behind?  Otherwise the fed for k-12 doesn't fund squat?
> 
> WHY is this even a federal/national issue when States are who rule their own educational systems???


Because they don't.  State/local boards of education often only recognize the kaching of federal funding and will most often willing submit to federal mandates regarding so-called "educational" strictures.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 8, 2017)

gallantwarrior said:


> Care4all said:
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> > Don't the States run their own schools and have their own State Boards of Education?  Doesn't the federal education funding for state schools K- 12 only include money for poor students school lunches and maybe a little for the federal testing mandates of no child left behind?  Otherwise the fed for k-12 doesn't fund squat?
> ...



You don't realize that the federal funding accounts for less than 10% of the costs for a child's education and then it is only for poor children and those with handicaps or learning disabilities.

Your typical student doesn't get a dime of federal money.


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## Unkotare (Sep 8, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> ....
> 
> Suck it up if you work for the public school system get to work and quit whining ,,,




If you want to rub yourself, do it in private. No one is whining, and you have only proven that you do NOT have experience teaching or coaching relative to what the other poster was talking about. Your self-love is your own sticky business, and no one wants to hear it.


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## gallantwarrior (Sep 8, 2017)

I live in Alaska, where we waste more money per student than any other state for worse results.  A lot is attributed to federal funding.  There are other factors, as well.  It's just tragic that the students suffer for political posturing.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 8, 2017)

gallantwarrior said:


> I live in Alaska, where we waste more money per student than any other state for worse results.  A lot is attributed to federal funding.  There are other factors, as well.  It's just tragic that the students suffer for political posturing.



I think you need to research the actual amount the feds contribute to your school.  I am betting it is not nearly as large as you think it is.

Alaska gets $324 million of a $2.4 billion budget fro the federal government. 

That's about 13,5 percent.


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## Damaged Eagle (Sep 8, 2017)

Unkotare said:


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I only need that to know that a teacher works on salary and if they have a collateral duty, like coaching, then that's covered by the salary. As for fixing equipment or lack of equipment I already covered that.

Do I have to draw up you standard lesson plans and course curriculum for each grade also? Very little should require changes in a five year period if the lesson plans and curriculum is standardized nationwide.

*****SMILE*****


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## Damaged Eagle (Sep 8, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
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> > 2. Regulations at all levels need to be reviewed and groomed.
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Top heavy bureaucracy.





Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
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> > 3. Funding at the local, state, and federal, levels need to be reduced.





Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Being done all of the time.



Good!




Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
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> > 4. Outsourcing to private industry should be considered.





Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Was considered, was done, total and turned into a total and complete disaster.



Refer to first answer.




Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
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> > >>>>>NOTE: It doesn't take a brick and mortar building to educate children in.





Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Many children cannot learn from computers and videos.  They need that human contact to reinforce the learning or they forget it in a matter of minutes.



Not what I meant. I meant I can put up a metal building for a fraction of the cost of a brick and mortar building.




Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
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> > 5. Educational requirements for educators should be reduced.
> > >>>>>NOTE: It doesn't take a four year degree to teach children (grades 1-4) basic reading, writing and arithmetic a high school grad can do that. An associates should be good for grades 5-8 and a bachelor's for high school. All these educators should have set wages. If you have a degree higher than those then you should be seeking a different job because you're overeducated for the position you're holding or seeking.





Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Total and complete nonsense.  Knowing how to read does not mean you can teach someone to read.



^^^Big part of the problem^^^

Let's try this... Just because you have a bachelors degree in teaching doesn't mean you know how to teach someone.



Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
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> > 6. If the child has reached high school and is not inclined towards academics then classes for educating them in a skilled profession should be available.
> ...



Last time I looked at the course curriculum in the school's around here they no longer teach: mechanical drawing, woodworking, welding, basic engine repair, canning, gardening, etc,... 

Those used to be standards for those choosing a skill instead of academics.





Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> ^^^^^^^^^FROWN^^^^^^^^





Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> My comments in blue.



They still are.






*****SMILE*****


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 8, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> Unkotare said:
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Again, you would be wrong.

Coaching and extra duties are paid by supplements to their salaries.

I was a football, cross country, and academic team coach for many years.  I was paid extra.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 8, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


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That sounds like your problem.

This is from the county where I work:

Air & Space Academy
Air Conditioning Technology
Automotive Technology
Construction Carpentry Technology
Electrical Technology
Industrial Maintenance Technology
Masonry Technology
Welding Technology
We also have jobs programs with UPS and dual credit courses with the local community colleges and major universities.

I think you will likely find that your schools do also.

BTW, why on God's green earth would you teach mechanical drawing when that went the way of the buggy whip and typewriter?


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## Damaged Eagle (Sep 8, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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^^^Therein lies the problem.^^^

Entitlement expectations for being assigned a collateral duty.

Perhaps we need to hand out pink slips and bring in foreign nationals to replace the educators. Maybe we can get them cheap at half the going rate with empty promises that it counts as points to citizenship if they do a good job.

*****CHUCKLE*****


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## Damaged Eagle (Sep 8, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> That sounds like your problem.
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Those courses should be high school level.

Same reason would I expect a student to be able to work a math problem, even at college level, without a calculator.

*****SMILE*****


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 8, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


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Expectations?  Do you often expect to work for free?  Collateral duties are not supposed to take place outside the school day without compensation.

My father worked for General Electric for 27 years.  If he worked any additional hours past his shift, he damned sure got paid for it.  Most of these coaching supplements when divided by the actual hours worked do not even meet minimum wage requirements.

I just spent my own money this week buying supplies for my classroom because there is no funding for me to get anything except from my own pocket!  I even bought lamps for my classroom so my students can see to take notes from my projector because the light switches are all on or all off.

I had one of those foreign professors in college.  Almost every student in the class failed because the university forgot to ask him the most basic interview question before hiring him!  
They forgot to ask him if he could speak English without such a thick Chinese accent that we might be able to understand what "Tarke de varum of de rood brock" meant in his Physics class.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 8, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


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Those ARE at the high school level!


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## Damaged Eagle (Sep 8, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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So let's review:

1. You think you're entitled to extra pay when assigned a collateral duty or duty assignment.

2. You can't handle ordering for your classroom or the budget for your classroom.

3. You discriminate against foreign nationals because they can do the job just as well as most teachers appear to be doing in this country.

Does that about sum it up?

*****CHUCKLE*****


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## Damaged Eagle (Sep 8, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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You said they are at the community college. FYI..... That's not high school.

*****SMILE*****


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 8, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


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No, I did not.  The courses are taught in the vocational schools or at the community colleges where they receive both high school and college credit for the classes.

I am sorry you don't have the background knowledge to discuss this topic, but apparently you have some learning to do.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 8, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


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You really are quite laughable.

If I am expected to work 3 additional hours after school and attend sporting events in the evening and on weekends, yes, I expect to get paid.  Most people do.

There is no budget for my classroom.  That is the point!  Anything I need, I provide for my students out of my own pocket, from paper, to pencils, to tissues!

Those foreign nationals were NOT doing the job.  Do you have a serious reading comprehension problem?  Did you miss the part where I stated that most of the students failed?  If they cannot speak English, hwy were they hired?

If you really want to learn, try asking serious questions and I will give you serious answers.  Right now, I believe you are simply being contrary and arguing for the sake of argument and you don't even believe what you are posting.


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## Damaged Eagle (Sep 8, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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Most of the fundamentals in mechanics, woodworking, welding, electrical, etc,... were taught* at the high school* when I was in high school. Not at some campus inconveniently located somewhere on the other side of town.

It would appear that the growing bureaucracy and feudal mentality of craftsmen protecting their precious craft from plebeians runs deep in the educational systems today.

Was this so they could make room for all those feel good social programs at the high school level because someone under eighteen might learn something useful?

No! Don't answer that because I'm sure it'll only be an answer that supports perpetuating the ongoing deferment of receiving an education prior to graduating high school.

*****SMILE*****


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 8, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


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What makes you think they are located far away?

Most of my school's vocational/technical centers were collocated with the high schools.  The one exception was out school only had 650 students, so they attended an area technology center in the next county by bus for either a morning or afternoon session.  It is called economy of scale when multiple schools share these facilities.  

Some classes are taught at the school itself.  My last school taught medical, welding, and business classes in the same building as the high school.

You claimed these programs do not exist, when clearly they do.

In fact, my current principal was the principal of the vocational/technical center in an adjoining county before taking this position.

I do not understand the rest of your rant.  I think it has been shown that you really are not familiar with what is going on in public education today.  You have preconceived notions that are obviously in error, yet you simply deny the truth.


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## Damaged Eagle (Sep 9, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> You really are quite laughable.



I find your responses quite hilarious too.



Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> If I am expected to work 3 additional hours after school and attend sporting events in the evening and on weekends, yes, I expect to get paid.  Most people do.



Then I expect a full years work for a full years pay.

You get paid a set amount there should be no summer break.



Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> There is no budget for my classroom.  That is the point!  Anything I need, I provide for my students out of my own pocket, from paper, to pencils, to tissues!



That's your problem. Take it up with your school board about the principal and/or superintendent for mismanaging the budget.

There's no reason a teacher should not have a limited budget allotment for yearly classroom supplies that they can order after being scrutinized by a higher authority... How much do you think? $250? $500? $1000? More?



Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Those foreign nationals were NOT doing the job.  Do you have a serious reading comprehension problem?  Did you miss the part where I stated that most of the students failed?  If they cannot speak English, hwy were they hired?



If a student can't read, write, or count, when they 'supposedly' graduate high school today and there wasn't a foreign national to blame what difference does it make?

*****CHUCKLE*****



Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> If you really want to learn, try asking serious questions and I will give you serious answers.  Right now, I believe you are simply being contrary and arguing for the sake of argument and you don't even believe what you are posting.



For some things you might be correct with this statement. However there is a glimmering of truthfulness to some of my presentation also. It's for you to decide where I'm being contrary, where I'm being dead serious, and where a little bit of both is being incorporated.

However you'd best remember that I'm ex-military and have little sympathy for the bureaucracy and politics I'm seeing in the educational system. They waste money and leave our kids undereducated.






*****CHUCKLE*****


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## Unkotare (Sep 9, 2017)

Beginning to smell a fake...


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## BulletProof (Sep 9, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> My comments in blue.



All your bullsh1t comments prove is that you voted for Hillary


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## BulletProof (Sep 9, 2017)

DGS49 said:


> There is something about the public sector that almost always results in huge inefficiencies.



The reason is simple:  The public sector doesn't have to try to be efficient.  

The public sector gains customers by government threat of a gun, rather than winning them in a free market.  And, for a public sector organization, nothing gets them more money than failing.  Look at all the idiots who look at how bad the public schools do and conclude they need more money (it doesn't help that most of those PoS are clueless as to how much money the public schools already get).


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 9, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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I am ex-military also.  Being a teacher is NOT like being in the military.  It is a lot harder!


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## BulletProof (Sep 9, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> I am ex-military also.  Being a teacher is NOT like being in the military.  It is a lot harder!



Spare us the sanctimonious bullsh1t.

Being a teacher isn't hard (being an effective teacher is hard, but that doesn't apply to you). How hard is a job when all you have to do is show up to work (teachers have the highest absentee rate of any profession, not counting summers) without being productive (20% illiteracy rate of HS graduates).  How hard is a job when about the only way to get fired is to commit pedophilia with a student (ephebophilia)?

The things the teachers complain about are mostly the teachers' own fault (via their support of the teachers' unions and Democrats), like the difficulty of disciplining students.

Well, maybe teaching is hard for you... But not because teaching itself in a public school is hard.


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## Unkotare (Sep 9, 2017)

BulletProof said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > I am ex-military also.  Being a teacher is NOT like being in the military.  It is a lot harder!
> ...








How do you know? How long have you been working as a public school teacher?


----------



## psikeyhackr (Sep 9, 2017)

When you overhaul a machine usually the best you get is the original performance.

We need a redesign!  But that would be a serious potential threat to all of the people in the current system.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 9, 2017)

BulletProof said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > I am ex-military also.  Being a teacher is NOT like being in the military.  It is a lot harder!
> ...



Most people could not last through lunch. You'd be curled up in the fetal position and sucking your thumb 15 minutes into the first class.  I know your kind.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Sep 9, 2017)

mgh80 said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > View attachment 147941
> ...




First off, I worked for a school district for 6 years, your claims are dubious at best. (why don't you ride on the bus with the kids to meets? As and example), But there is a distinction between primary K-12 and higher education. Higher education is utterly out of control, charging students $200,000 for liberal arts educations that will not even secure them a job. Schools don't have to compete because the federal government is picking up the tab. Colleges and universities don't have to EARN the money they take in, they are just massive welfare queens with administrators pulling down 7 figure salaries and calling themselves "non-profit." 

I teach a sophomore level economics course as a working professional, because the institution I work for ONLY hires working professionals in the field to facilitate courses - one of the most legitimate institutions of higher learning in the nation.  I've got to tell you, I routinely get students who cannot compose a coherent sentence. None of them have any idea what the business cycle is, what fiat currency is, how the federal reserve and fractional banking works. The K-12 education never even touches on how our economy works. I have a Ph.D. in supply chain management and work as a lean/continuous improvement manager in my day job, hence I offer real world knowledge from actual business transactions. Most universities have deadbeat Marxists who have never even held a job outside of academia, yet are somehow going to impart knowledge of economics?

Want to fix this mess?

End non-profit status for colleges and universities, it is utter bullshit. Non-profit  Penn State brings in billions in profits from their football program alone.
End federal aid to colleges and universities
End guaranteed student loans, schools will have to learn to provide an education that students can actually afford, or cease to exist.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Sep 9, 2017)

psikeyhackr said:


> When you overhaul a machine usually the best you get is the original performance.





Dumbest thing I've ever heard.








> We need a redesign!  But that would be a serious potential threat to all of the people in the current system.



Yes, we need to look at what worked so well for so long and merge those elements with our technological prowess.


----------



## BulletProof (Sep 9, 2017)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Want to fix this mess?
> 
> End non-profit status for colleges and universities, it is utter bullshit. Non-profit  Penn State brings in billions in profits from their football program alone.
> End federal aid to colleges and universities
> End guaranteed student loans, schools will have to learn to provide an education that students can actually afford, or cease to exist.



Economics 101: Subsidizing something makes it more expensive while at the same time causing devaluation.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 10, 2017)

Uncensored2008 said:


> mgh80 said:
> 
> 
> > Damaged Eagle said:
> ...



You say you "worked for a school district".  It obviously was not as a teacher.  That is like the locker room towel boy saying he worked for the New England Patriots.

Could you possibly be a bigger, pompous windbag?

I don't know if that is possible.


----------



## Damaged Eagle (Sep 10, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...








I'm sure for a person such as yourself you would view it that way. If you're having difficulties getting your work done we can put you in a three section duty roster and you can bunk in the school when on duty. Or you can just kiss your spouse good bye and bunk at the school when it's in session and consider yourself on deployment or maneuvers. Will that give you time to catch up on all that hard work?

*****SMILE*****


----------



## Unkotare (Sep 10, 2017)

People just love to spout ignorant shit when it comes to education.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 10, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Damaged Eagle said:
> ...


You are nothing but a fucking troll.

No one should bother with conversing with you.


----------



## deanrd (Sep 10, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> View attachment 147941
> 
> The educational system needs to overhauled, downsized, and have it's funding reduced.
> 
> ...


6.2 million unfilled jobs:

Job Openings and Labor Turnover Summary

Majority of Republicans think college is bad for America:

The majority of Republicans say colleges are bad for America (yes, really)

87% of lost manufacturing jobs automated:

Mexico stealing factory jobs? Blame automation instead

Putting ignorant and delusional Republicans in charge of our educational system is like putting obese diabetic children in charge of a candy store.  The only thing that will come of it is terrible disaster.


----------



## Marion Morrison (Sep 10, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> View attachment 147941
> 
> The educational system needs to overhauled, downsized, and have it's funding reduced.
> 
> ...



I take issue with point 5.

Just because somebody is educated doesn't mean they need to be constrained in their job choices.

In many cases, the kids would end up winning by having someone "overeducated" for their position.


----------



## deanrd (Sep 10, 2017)

BulletProof said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Want to fix this mess?
> ...


See what I mean?


----------



## BulletProof (Sep 10, 2017)

deanrd said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > View attachment 147941
> ...




Republicans are just reacting the libtard synagogues that many universities have become.  Republicans don't object to professional jobs skills and "classical liberal arts" education, but to the cowardly leftist politics of many school officials.


----------



## deanrd (Sep 10, 2017)

BulletProof said:


> deanrd said:
> 
> 
> > Damaged Eagle said:
> ...


Bullsh!t.  So few Republicans stay in school, they have no idea what goes on in colleges.
What Republicans call terrible schools, the rest of the world calls the best in the world.  If Republicans really thought American schools were so bad, they wouldn't work so hard to keep people from other countries out of them.
The truth is, Republicans just can't compete.  They  think if they can keep other Americans from an education, employers will have to hire them.  Sadly for them, it just doesn't work that way.  One educated immigrant is worth more than thousand useless uneducated Republicans.


----------



## Unkotare (Sep 10, 2017)

deanrd said:


> BulletProof said:
> 
> 
> > deanrd said:
> ...





More idiotic, meaningless partisan bullshit.


----------



## Damaged Eagle (Sep 10, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > View attachment 147941
> ...









I didn't say they couldn't work that position. However just like any job if you choose to work it even though you're overqualified it doesn't entitle you to higher pay. At that point it is your choice to remain working at that position instead of seeking career opportunities that pay better.

If you have a degree in business management and choose to work as a 'chef' or in 'merchandise arrangement' it doesn't mean I'm going to pay you what you think your degree is worth.

*****SMILE*****


----------



## Damaged Eagle (Sep 10, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...







That's your choice to think that and mine at this time to think the same of you.

BTW... You didn't answer the question.

*****CHUCKLE*****


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 10, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Damaged Eagle said:
> ...



I don't work for assholes.  Enjoy!


----------



## Damaged Eagle (Sep 10, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...








I see... You think that teaching is harder work than the service offers yet when confronted with a service situation where you might be putting in 12-16 hour days, if not more, on a regular basis you consider it working for assholes.

*****ROFLMAO*****


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 10, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Damaged Eagle said:
> ...



I am giving you the courtesy of one last reply to your idiocy in hopes that you will realize how fucked up you are!

I started out as an ETSN in the Nuclear Field program, made 3rd class out of A School and was TAD to USS Yosemite where I worked CCTV.

While there I picked up a 4-year scholarship to NROTC.  A little over 4 years later and cruises on a boomer and a carrier, I was commissioned and served 3 years on a CG.  After nearly 3 years in Navy Recruiting where my command was tops in the Navy, I went back to sea as MPA on another CG during the Gulf War.  I then went to Department Head school and served in a Chief Engineer billet on an amphib carrier and took that through overhaul and a deployment to Haiti.

I probably spent more time on the shitter underway than you did in the military.

That being said, you are a pathetic blowhard who has accomplished complete idiocy on two completely separate topics in this thread. You should be ashamed.


----------



## Unkotare (Sep 10, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Damaged Eagle said:
> ...





What is the point of this trolling?


----------



## Damaged Eagle (Sep 10, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...







I spent twenty years in the service and spent over half that time on deployments. With tours at two training commands when not deployed.

So try again.

*****SMILE*****


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 10, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Damaged Eagle said:
> ...



You are either the world's worst liar  or you didn't learn anything during those deployments back in the 50s and 60s.


----------



## Damaged Eagle (Sep 10, 2017)

Unkotare said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...








The only trolling I'm seeing is people stating their cushy go home at the end of the day, or I need to be paid to babysit, jobs are so much harder than being in the service.

Other than that I don't know.

*****SMILE*****


----------



## Unkotare (Sep 10, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...






I vote for the former.


----------



## Unkotare (Sep 10, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Damaged Eagle said:
> ...








That's enough, kid. Show's over.


----------



## Damaged Eagle (Sep 10, 2017)

Unkotare said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...








Which part of it do you believe is an act?

If you'd like to discuss or propose realistic suggestions to educational reform I'm all for that also.

However supporting a unrealistic belief that schools need to be made one of the most expensive ways, out of brick and mortar, or that because someone who's overeducated for a position needs to be paid at the educational level they've reached instead of the position they wish to hold is now off the table.

*****SMILE*****


----------



## Disir (Sep 11, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> The educational system needs to overhauled, downsized, and have it's funding reduced.
> 
> Some steps to accomplish this are:
> 
> ...



You are in luck. The education system has already been reformed.  They are teaching to the test (where your money goes) as we speak. Charter schools are faux privatization. Many of them are tied up in real estate fraud (where your money goes).  Some states have decided a teaching degree isn't necessary.  AND it has bipartisan support. 

And we have vo-tech schools which are for those students that don't want to go to a university.  However, many of those want to make sure they can profit. You know, they get their "fair share" as well? So, they are often designed so that you have to go on for another one to two years to get what they you need. 



Damaged Eagle said:


> How often are the text books changed? Every year? Every five years? Every ten years?
> 
> If it's every year...
> 
> ...



Anything to do with science should be updated yearly because by the time the book is printed it's already outdated. Of the states I have lived in most of the text books are updated every 3 years.  The state I live in now the kids don't even get text books because there isn't enough money for it unless you are in an AP course.


----------



## deanrd (Sep 11, 2017)

Unkotare said:


> deanrd said:
> 
> 
> > BulletProof said:
> ...


Maybe not.

A majority of Republicans think college is bad for America

Majority of Republicans say colleges have negative impact on country, poll says

Republicans believe colleges are bad for America, survey finds; ranking of 'liberal' universities includes Portland surprise


----------



## BulletProof (Sep 11, 2017)

deanrd said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > deanrd said:
> ...



The irony is, the people who most think colleges (because of their libtard bent) have a negative impact on society, these people aren't going to vote for politicians who'll do anything about it.  To get the conservative Christian vote, all a politician has to do is pledge support for Antichrist (Israel and war), along with some tax cuts for the rich (flat tax, etc.).  And, so, the Republican party is worthless in moving this country in a conservative and free direction.

Republicans should be busy passing university Free Speech laws (that protects teachers, not just students), among other things.  But, very few are even trying.


----------



## Slyhunter (Sep 11, 2017)

Why do we still have text books. PDF's should be the norm.


----------



## bodecea (Sep 11, 2017)

BulletProof said:


> deanrd said:
> 
> 
> > Damaged Eagle said:
> ...


"synagogues"?   Ok, now we see what this is all about.........


----------



## bodecea (Sep 11, 2017)

BulletProof said:


> deanrd said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


so...this is really all about the evil Jews?


----------



## BulletProof (Sep 11, 2017)

bodecea said:


> BulletProof said:
> 
> 
> > deanrd said:
> ...



It's a figure of speech, PC moron.


----------



## psikeyhackr (Sep 11, 2017)

Uncensored2008 said:


> psikeyhackr said:
> 
> 
> > When you overhaul a machine usually the best you get is the original performance.
> ...



This is more than an overhaul:

Basler BT-67 - Wikipedia

Piston engines replaced by turboprops.



> It is a remanufactured and *modified* Douglas DC-3



psik


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 11, 2017)

Disir said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > The educational system needs to overhauled, downsized, and have it's funding reduced.
> ...



Textbooks?  What are those?

I have 27 books for 115 students.  They were published in 2009.


----------



## Disir (Sep 11, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> > Damaged Eagle said:
> ...



Ok. Once upon a time there were these things.........oh to hell with it.


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## Uncensored2008 (Sep 11, 2017)

bodecea said:


> BulletProof said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...



Spam - reported


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Sep 11, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> > Damaged Eagle said:
> ...



Yes, but you also have 115 iPads with electronic versions of the book.


----------



## flacaltenn (Sep 11, 2017)

Slyhunter said:


> Why do we still have text books. PDF's should be the norm.



There's this thing called curriculum. HISTORY doesn't vary. Neither does Physics. For the most part. And textbooks are just benchmark for a complete and agreed upon curriculum.  So supplement all you want. It's easier to communicate the REQUIREMENTS for students and teachers when the material doesn't swing WILDLY and with the political whims. Quality suffers and the outcomes TANK when everyone is being fed dissonant information about basic topics and courses.


----------



## Unkotare (Sep 12, 2017)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Disir said:
> ...






That's usually in the wealthy suburbs.


----------



## mgh80 (Sep 12, 2017)

Uncensored2008 said:


> mgh80 said:
> 
> 
> > Damaged Eagle said:
> ...



-I coach golf we are not given buses (since they're a total of 11 kids on the team). I have to drive to meets/practice (since practice is off-campus).

-As somebody who earned their MBA and worked in the corporate world before becoming a teacher I actually agree with much of your post.

However you claimed most of my post is bull shit? I'll gladly PM you proof or PM me your e-mail. I backup what I state.


----------



## mgh80 (Sep 12, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> mgh80 said:
> 
> 
> > Here's what I'm dealing with this year:
> ...


----------



## Damaged Eagle (Sep 13, 2017)

So the only solution to improving education and even possibly reducing inefficiencies is to maintain the status quo... at least that appears to be the answer from our 'professional' educators.

*****SMILE*****


----------



## Unkotare (Sep 13, 2017)

It's sure as heck not the impractical and I'll- considered nonsense spouted by some here.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Sep 13, 2017)

psikeyhackr said:


> When you overhaul a machine usually the best you get is the original performance.
> 
> We need a redesign!  But that would be a serious potential threat to all of the people in the current system.


We're not going to get any better alternatives if the only ones allowed to suggest them have been dumbed-down themselves.  And that logically includes those with the highest GPAs.  Being a success in a failed system is nothing to be proud of.


----------



## mgh80 (Sep 13, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> So the only solution to improving education and even possibly reducing inefficiencies is to maintain the status quo... at least that appears to be the answer from our 'professional' educators.
> 
> *****SMILE*****



Spend education money on things that help to improve children's education and you'll see improvement. Nearly half of my students have no text book...yet the football team (which does play an important role at the school) has a brand new locker room. This isn't rock science.


----------



## Moonglow (Sep 13, 2017)

mgh80 said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > View attachment 147941
> ...





> after a summer school teacher broken it




Where do you teach again?


----------



## Unkotare (Sep 13, 2017)

mgh80 said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > So the only solution to improving education and even possibly reducing inefficiencies is to maintain the status quo... at least that appears to be the answer from our 'professional' educators.
> ...







If the football team didn't get the locker room, it doesn't mean your kids would have gotten textbooks.


----------



## Damaged Eagle (Sep 15, 2017)

Impractical is spending an ever increasing amount of finances at a system that has steadily decreasing performance and expecting it to attain higher achievement.

*****SMILE*****


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 15, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> Impractical is spending an ever increasing amount of finances at a system that has steadily decreasing performance and expecting it to attain higher achievement.
> 
> *****SMILE*****




Where is your evidence of decreasing performance?  Without that, your argument is just hot air.  Where did you get any idea that the finances are increasing?

You know nothing except what you hear,  Anecdotes are not data.


----------



## psikeyhackr (Sep 15, 2017)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> We're not going to get any better alternatives if the only ones allowed to suggest them have been dumbed-down themselves.  And that logically includes those with the highest GPAs.  Being a success in a failed system is nothing to be proud of.



That is funny.  I used to beat the valedictorian at chess.  I got straight Ds in religion.  Getting straight As in everything requires some smarts but it also means doing every idiotic thing you are told.


----------



## mgh80 (Sep 15, 2017)

Unkotare said:


> mgh80 said:
> 
> 
> > Damaged Eagle said:
> ...



While this is very true, I do think it shows where the priorities of the district is (not in the classroom).


----------



## Damaged Eagle (Sep 15, 2017)

U.S. Education Spending & Student Performance vs. The World Infographic | MAT@USC | USC Rossier Online






^^^For the amount spent I'd say we should be leading in all the areas listed above.^^^

*****SMILE*****


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 16, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> U.S. Education Spending & Student Performance vs. The World Infographic | MAT@USC | USC Rossier Online
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The source is from 2011 and ignores the differences in the school systems,  In Germany, students are tested and placed on either the college track or vocational track.  Those on the vocational track are not tested.  That is why Germany has stopped participating in international testing because that little factoid makes their performance look even worse.  Also, have many of those countries have significant minority populations which dramatically lower test scores because of poor language skills? If a child struggles with reading English, how well do they score in math and science?


----------



## Damaged Eagle (Sep 17, 2017)

I don't see any counter information to prove anything's changed significantly since 2011. Since anything about educational funding is lacking for the last eight years I'm betting that means it's increased during Obama's reign... While in turn the quality of education itself has decreased if Berkley is utilized as a shining example for quality students.

So now you're saying those other minorities/ethnic groups who've lived here for generations are to stupid to learn the English language?

*****SMILE*****


----------



## Unkotare (Sep 17, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> ....
> 
> So now you're saying those other minorities/ethnic groups who've lived here for generations are to stupid to learn the English language?....




Who?


----------



## Damaged Eagle (Sep 17, 2017)

Unkotare said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > ....
> ...








I'm not the one who stated...



Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> ....Also, have many of those countries have significant minority populations which dramatically lower test scores because of poor language skills? If a child struggles with reading English, how well do they score in math and science?



...Perhaps you should ask the "Admiral".



*****CHUCKLE*****


----------



## mgh80 (Sep 17, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> I don't see any counter information to prove anything's changed significantly since 2011. Since anything about educational funding is lacking for the last eight years I'm betting that means it's increased during Obama's reign... While in turn the quality of education itself has decreased if Berkley is utilized as a shining example for quality students.
> 
> So now you're saying those other minorities/ethnic groups who've lived here for generations* are to stupid* to learn the English language?
> 
> *****SMILE*****



I don't know about that...but you're too stupid to know the difference between "too" and "to". 

PS: It's the immigrant population (kids who haven't grown up in America) that are mainly ELL students.


----------



## Damaged Eagle (Sep 17, 2017)

mgh80 said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > I don't see any counter information to prove anything's changed significantly since 2011. Since anything about educational funding is lacking for the last eight years I'm betting that means it's increased during Obama's reign... While in turn the quality of education itself has decreased if Berkley is utilized as a shining example for quality students.
> ...








Weren't you the one who used ''broken it" to describe something in a sentence earlier in this thread prior to the thread being cleansed?

I hire secretaries to groom my paperwork, who aren't you, when it's official.

PS: I highly doubt it's just the ELL population the good "admiral" is referring to.

*****CHUCKLE*****


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 17, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > U.S. Education Spending & Student Performance vs. The World Infographic | MAT@USC | USC Rossier Online
> ...




Is it humanly possible that you will ever direct your reply to my comments?  I don't think you have the minimum mental faculties to respond.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 17, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> mgh80 said:
> 
> 
> > Damaged Eagle said:
> ...



There you going being ignorant again!

Yes, that is exactly who I am talking about, but since you have no clue as to what ELL means, I didn't use those terms.

I once taught in an inner city middle school where I was the only person in the room for whom English was not a second language.  Ever teach World Civilizations to kids who know less English than you do their language?

The results are never good.

In my classes, the number of kids who were native born Americans could usually be counted on one hand.  That is unusual I know, but those are the kids you are complaining about doing poorly on the math and science tests.


----------



## mgh80 (Sep 17, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> mgh80 said:
> 
> 
> > Damaged Eagle said:
> ...



ELL=English Language Learner....so yes that's the exact demographic he was referring to.


----------



## Damaged Eagle (Sep 17, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Is it humanly possible that you will ever direct your reply to my comments?  I don't think you have the minimum mental faculties to respond.







You need someone to hold your hand and show you where the reply was made or is it your pretension that your superior intellect deems any response beneath you unless directly quoted?

*****CHUCKLE*****


----------



## Damaged Eagle (Sep 17, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> There you going being ignorant again!
> 
> Yes, that is exactly who I am talking about, but since you have no clue as to what ELL means, I didn't use those terms.
> 
> ...








So now you're making a case for my earlier observation of firing most the current educators and opening up the floodgates to foreign nationals to take those positions. We can screen them to ensure they're proficient in English and a couple other languages and let them teach at a reduced salary with empty promises of them attaining citizenship faster. Thanks!

*****CHUCKLE*****


----------



## Unkotare (Sep 17, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> .....
> 
> I once taught in an inner city middle school where I was the only person in the room for whom English was not a second language.  Ever teach World Civilizations to kids who know less English than you do their language?
> 
> The results are never good......




The results can be good. A lot of those kids are very bright and extremely hard working. There are kids who have been in the US and speaking English for less than a year who I would put up against any of their age group. A daunting challenge doesn't mean no one is up to it.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 17, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Is it humanly possible that you will ever direct your reply to my comments?  I don't think you have the minimum mental faculties to respond.
> ...



Oh, you respond, just not with anything that hasn't been washed, fluffed and dried through your ignorance.  That, and it still never addressees what I say, but repeats the propaganda that you dwell upon.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 17, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > There you going being ignorant again!
> ...



Bad news there sunshine.  Those foreign nationals that you want to hire don't speak these languages either!  Spanish and even some Arabic instructors would be fine for those students in their native tongues, but how will they speak to American kids?

I recently worked with a teacher from Bosnia.  No matter how hard he tried, he cannot rid himself of his definitive accent.  He is an incredible teacher and works more hours than is imaginable for his students, but some students cannot get past that language barrier.  Even his name is unpronounceable.


----------



## Damaged Eagle (Sep 17, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...







Still waiting on your proof that educational funding hasn't increased and that the learning curve has increased. Otherwise the only one touting what you're suggesting above is yourself as you aggressively adhere to the status quo. Is that what it takes to achieve your pretensions admiral?

*****CHUCKLE*****


----------



## Damaged Eagle (Sep 17, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Bad news there sunshine.  Those foreign nationals that you want to hire don't speak these languages either!  Spanish and even some Arabic instructors would be fine for those students in their native tongues, but how will they speak to American kids?



Didn't I state they needed to be proficient in English????? Why... Yes I did!



Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> I recently worked with a teacher from Bosnia.  No matter how hard he tried, he cannot rid himself of his definitive accent.  He is an incredible teacher and works more hours than is imaginable for his students, but some students cannot get past that language barrier.  Even his name is unpronounceable.



So now you're criticizing accents? I suppose you have issues with the variety of accents American English has too. Sounds like the one with an issue is yourself as you struggle to maintain your status quo.






*****CHUCKLE*****


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 17, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


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I never made that claim.  I asked you to support your contention that the learning curve had decreased, and you never did.

Why is it so difficult for you to handle?

Were you in special education classes?  Do you have an IEP that I need to review?


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## Damaged Eagle (Sep 17, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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Show me where you've made any attempt to disprove what I've stated admiral...

U.S. Education Slips In Rankings

U.S. Falls In World Education Rankings, Rated 'Average' | HuffPost

U.S. Students Slide In Global Ranking On Math, Reading, Science

...Or is it now your intention to institute some sort of IEP on the USMB. Perhaps you could also identify the at risk members also.

*****CHUCKLE*****


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 17, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


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U.S. Education Slips In Rankings - 

A 12 year-old article that references spending, but no real hard and fast data on education. - FAIL.

U.S. Falls In World Education Rankings, Rated 'Average' | HuffPost

A 10-year-old study based on the data referenced in your first link. Did you notice that they provided no data for any other country?  How can you compare without the data?  - FAIL.

U.S. Students Slide In Global Ranking On Math, Reading, Science

*"The top overall scores came from Shanghai, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, Macao and Japan".*

Now, what do all of those countries have in common?  Hmmmmmmmm......

Think you can figure that one out?

I doubt you can, so I will tell you.  Those are homogenous societies where education and educators are respected.  They have no minority populations with language issues to lower the average. Only high-performing students are including in their testing results while we include inner-city school where most will choose to drop out.  Don't do your homework in Singapore and see how many strikes with a cane you get! 

When the US society starts putting the same emphasis on education as those countries, maybe we can improve.  However, that has nothing to do with the teachers or schools.  All we do know is line them up for testing with some accommodations and then claim they are the same as kids in those countries.  They are not the same and will never be.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 17, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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> > Bad news there sunshine.  Those foreign nationals that you want to hire don't speak these languages either!  Spanish and even some Arabic instructors would be fine for those students in their native tongues, but how will they speak to American kids?
> ...



Proficient is a nebulous term.  Many African-American teachers I have encountered would not meet that requirement having lived in the US since their birth.


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## Damaged Eagle (Sep 17, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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OMG!!!!! Now we're getting somewhere. So your solution is to institute physical punishment to increase learning potential and eliminate those choosing not to learn from the testing results. We'll attempt to ignore you contempt for minorities while you're doing all this readjustment of the educational system to your satisfaction.

*****CHUCKLE*****


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## Damaged Eagle (Sep 17, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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So now you're rescinding your abusi... I mean aggressive statements towards me about how you meant ELL students who have only been in the United States since migrating here and returning to an all encompassing statement about minorities in general not being proficient in English?

I really do wish you'd make up your mind on how you're going to show me your superior intellect when... criticizing me.

Is this a pretension thingee?

*****CHUCKLE*****


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 17, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


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You posted: "So your solution is to institute physical punishment to increase learning potential and eliminate those choosing not to learn from the testing results."

Will you please post where I said anything even remotely like that?

I never did.

You are a troll of the highest caliber.

Take your bullshit and show it up your ass from whence it came.


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## Damaged Eagle (Sep 17, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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You stated and I quote...



Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> ...When the US society starts putting the same emphasis on education as those countries, maybe we can improve...



...This after explaining how those countries that are doing better in education than the United States.

If you didn't mean we should follow their example then perhaps you should explain your statement.

*****CHUCKLE*****


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## Unkotare (Sep 24, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


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> ...This after explaining how those countries that are doing better in education than the United States.
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Which countries?


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## Damaged Eagle (Sep 26, 2017)

Unkotare said:


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Read post #120 and direct your question at the admiral.

*****SMILE*****


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## Unkotare (Sep 26, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


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Answer the question, coward.


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## Damaged Eagle (Sep 26, 2017)

Unkotare said:


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I gave you all the information you required to understand your question troll.

*****SMILE*****


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## Unkotare (Sep 26, 2017)

Damaged Eagle said:


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= full of shit


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## SeaGal (Sep 26, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> *"The top overall scores came from Shanghai, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, Macao and Japan".*
> 
> Now, what do all of those countries have in common?  Hmmmmmmmm......
> 
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Critiquing our educational system, and making suggestions for improvement is not a reflection on teachers.  Teachers are  like any other group of public employees - many do a better job than some.  They are not a special group entitled to protections from criticism and accountability - they are, in fact, public servants.  And if the public doesn't feel they are getting the best bang for their educational buck, the public has the right to question and examine.  Federal funding is an impetus to conform to federal guidelines - miniscule as it may be, ask any school receiving Title One funding how they feel about losing it.

That said, I agree with the following - '_Those are homogenous societies where education and educators are respected.'  
When the US society starts putting the same emphasis on education as those countries, maybe then we can improve.
_
Just as all schools or teachers can't be blamed for the problems, neither can all parents.  I, for one, feel public education became politicized when the unions formed PAC's...I don't know about yours but the one I was a member of donated exclusively to one party the entire 26 years of my membership - this despite the affiliations of the members being spit 48-44 among the two predominant political parties.

I believe you will also find in most of the countries out performing the US, including those in the EU, competition is fierce to get 'accepted' into the best schools (a form of school choice, btw), discipline is strict, and education takes up a greater part of the day/week/school year.  We have operated for some time under the theory that skills diversity in the classroom is good - some local schools are re-thinking that policy at the elementary level.  The classes with the lowest performing students have a lower teacher/student ratio. 

It isn't good enough to dismiss the international results of testing and correlation of per student spending by saying, 'but we do education differently' because that _is_ the point.  Except, perhaps, the cost of transportation, custodial and food service is most likely greater in the US than in densely packed population centers with mass transit.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Sep 26, 2017)

SeaGal said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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That is one of the best well-reasoned responses I have ever had on this forum.  You are obviously well versed in this topic.

Our local paper has a huge article today on the problem of truancy throughout the state.  You cannot teach them, nor expect them to learn anything if they are never in school.  I had a student that was there the first day of school.  He was gone until I gave out progress reports at the four and a half week point in the grading period.  Of course, his grade was a zero.  How do we combat these incidents when there is no public support, nor any support from the judicial system.  We can haul these kids and parents into court, but nothing happens.


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## SeaGal (Sep 26, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> That is one of the best well-reasoned responses I have ever had on this forum.  You are obviously well versed in this topic.
> 
> Our local paper has a huge article today on the problem of truancy throughout the state.  You cannot teach them, nor expect them to learn anything if they are never in school.  I had a student that was there the first day of school.  He was gone until I gave out progress reports at the four and a half week point in the grading period.  Of course, his grade was a zero.  How do we combat these incidents when there is no public support, nor any support from the judicial system.  We can haul these kids and parents into court, but nothing happens.



I appreciate that - my family seems to have grown more than its fair share of educators and administrators.    We all care deeply...obviously so do you, as well as damaged eagle and others.  

Although I would prefer to see parents and teachers as allies rather than adversaries - there is no getting around the reality that some children have little to no support at home.  In your case, plainly speaking - your class is probably better off with a mia student than a resentfully disruptive one.  Yet that zero affects the schools rating...your hands are tied...and it ultimately hurts the community.  How to solve the issue of public and judicial indifference?...wish I knew. (in my area consequences would receive public support)

Important decisions made at the district and state level are often the results of lawsuits, or threat of legal action, initiated by a very small group of parents with special interests.  Not all of them are practical, beneficial to the majority of students, or cost effective, but in my state most districts do not have the funding to fight lawsuits.


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## Damaged Eagle (Oct 2, 2017)

*****SMILE*****


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