# Barack Hussein Obama



## The Infidel (Jul 30, 2012)

Aside from "He's not Romney" What do you seriously believe that he has brought to the Office of the President. Name what he has done that has actually helped America.

Specifics would be greatly appreciated....


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## High_Gravity (Jul 30, 2012)

Getting our guys out of Iraq, increasing the GI Bill.


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## Caroljo (Jul 30, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Getting our guys out of Iraq, increasing the GI Bill.



He didn't have a choice in removing our guys from Iraq...the time to do this was set by the Bush admin, and Obama wanted them to stay....but since the leaders in Iraq wouldn't give our soldier's immunity to their laws he had no choice but to get them out.  I think it'll be a bigger accomplishment if he ever gets us completely out of the ME.  But i don't see that happening either.

My answer to the OP is....I can't think of a thing!


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## strollingbones (Jul 30, 2012)

and in the 3rd post the debate stops


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## strollingbones (Jul 30, 2012)

the capture of bin laden....

health care mandate....


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## High_Gravity (Jul 30, 2012)

Ordering the Killing of Anwar Al-Awlaki.


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## Katzndogz (Jul 30, 2012)

strollingbones said:


> the capture of bin laden....
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> health care mandate....



Bin Laden was captured????????


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## Zander (Jul 30, 2012)

He promised to never use negative ads in his campaign!!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnXChAX5_c0]Obama in April in 2008 Promising to Not Run Negative Ads - YouTube[/ame]


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## WillowTree (Jul 30, 2012)

The biggest tax hike on Americans in the history of the US.


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## BDBoop (Jul 30, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> Aside from "He's not Romney" What do you seriously believe that he has brought to the Office of the President. Name what he has done that has actually helped America.
> 
> Specifics would be greatly appreciated....



It's never been 'he's not Romney.' He IS the President, I voted for him and I will vote for him again, based on his many accomplishments with regard to the men and women of the armed forces and his support thereof, repeal of DADT, support of SSM, The American Jobs Act (so what if it got killed by the Republicans), the ACA, his constant vigilance to help the least among us (poverty-stricken, elderly and infirm.)


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## cereal_killer (Jul 30, 2012)

strollingbones said:


> the capture of bin laden....
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I'm very skeptical over this one. I think that whole ordeal was staged and they came up empty handed. Too many things point to it being nothing more than a government lie (which is nothing new) He's been dead for years. BBC did a piece on it as well...


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## Zander (Jul 30, 2012)

He's overseen the largest increase in debt in the history of the world.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 30, 2012)

cereal_killer said:


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If that were true Pakistan and Bin Ladens widows wouldn't be so pissed, US Navy Seals killed Bin Laden case closed.


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## Some Guy (Jul 30, 2012)

cereal_killer said:


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If you've got a link to that piece then i'd love to see it.  Until then, i'll credit Obama with that.  Of all the things I was worried about when he took office, it was his his ability to be an even passable commander in chief.  I give him props for the job he's done there including the killing of Bin Laden.


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## IGetItAlready (Jul 30, 2012)

Obama's done one thing very well in the mind of a conservative like me who never voted for him but after his election held out hope for all the transparency and unity he touted while campaigning. 

He's made it quite clear that nothing short of a total reversal of the roles between master and slave will EVER be enough to satisfy race baiting political hacks who have built their entire careers on the perpetuation of black oppression. 

Good lookin' out buddy...


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## Foxfyre (Jul 30, 2012)

Like CK, I don't KNOW what the truth is re the killing of Bin Laden, but I find it really suspicious that the public has not been provided any evidence that they actually did get him.  But I don't know that they didn't either, so that isn't an issue that will sway my vote one way or the other.

Going back to Boop's praise of all he has done for the troops though, I'm not buying that at all.  Nobody, and I mean nobody did as much for the troops and our veterans than did George W. Bush even with the very legitimate debate over whether we should have invaded Iraq and/or whether we should have stayed in Afghanistan and Iraq to 'nation build.'   And there is no way to know if the same decisions would have been made if somebody else had been in the White House since both parties were calling for it until after the fact.

And though neither Romney nor Obama can claim any personal military experience, our veterans are still supporting Romney at this time at a higher level than they were supporting George W. Bush and they strongly prefer Romney to Obama.
Poll: Veterans Overwhelmingly Support Romney Over Obama - The Ballot 2012 (usnews.com)

My reasons for opposing Obama, however, have nothing to do with Bin Laden or the military.


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## Moonglow (Jul 30, 2012)

I believe he has help the USA with the stimulus(which was recommended by top economist), and other economic plans. Obamacare, the continuation of the bush era tax cuts, his handling of illegals, the observation that others are discriminated against and he wants to end it. His military objectives.
Finally, he does not think like the rest of the old white pasty male/female candidates.


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## Wry Catcher (Jul 30, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> Aside from "He's not Romney" What do you seriously believe that he has brought to the Office of the President. Name what he has done that has actually helped America.
> 
> Specifics would be greatly appreciated....



 1.  Class.

 2.  A steady hand

 3.  Intelligence.

 4.  Thoughtfulness

 5.  A sense of humor

 6.  A self effacing personality

 7.  Moderation

 8.  A stable economy

 9.  Civility (for the contrast see anything stated by VP Cheney)

10.  A role model for the next generation of leaders.


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## Liability (Jul 30, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


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Yes.  Then snuffed.


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## Liability (Jul 30, 2012)

He earned America its first credit downgrade in history.



Where can we get more guys like him?


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## Buford (Jul 30, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


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Obama:  "If they bring a knife, we bring a gun".  Yeah, Obama is a wonderful "role model".


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## cereal_killer (Jul 30, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


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Strictly opinion. There are absolutely no facts only what we were told and there are holes all over it. Our government routinely lies to us and this smells of yet another one.


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## Buford (Jul 30, 2012)

cereal_killer said:


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I think the stench you're smelling is eminating from the Oval Office.


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## Moonglow (Jul 30, 2012)

Buford said:


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That is a line out of the FBI story, Sean Connery said that when talking about wops.


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## Some Guy (Jul 30, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


> 1.  Class.
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We're looking for things that make a good president, not things that make a good boyfriend.


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## Moonglow (Jul 30, 2012)

cereal_killer said:


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How about the doctor that ran the front operation to get DNA from Osama to identify the correct target, he was tried and convicted in Pakistan for it.


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## catzmeow (Jul 30, 2012)

Buford said:


> Obama:  "If they bring a knife, we bring a gun".  Yeah, Obama is a wonderful "role model".



In wartime, it's advisable to bring a gun.  And, they're damn handy in many other instances, as well.  If someone engages in use of force against you, it's also smart to use superior force.

I'm not sure why you consider this bad role-modeling.


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## Buford (Jul 30, 2012)

Moonglow said:


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The President of the Unites States used it.


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## Buford (Jul 30, 2012)

catzmeow said:


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The President wasn't referring to our enemies we are at war with.  He appeases them.  He was referring to politics.  So you're endorsing using guns to get your way in politics.  Looks like the left is pulling off the mask.


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## catzmeow (Jul 30, 2012)

Buford said:


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Everything is war, particularly politics.  I'm recommending Sun Tzu's Art of War.

First, I'm not a leftist, nor am I a pacifist.  If you're going into battle, and you know that your opponent is armed with a knife, you'd be well-advised to pack heat.  This is common sense.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 30, 2012)

cereal_killer said:


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I do wish we had put pics of his corpse out, thats the only way to silence these rumours.


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## mal (Jul 30, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Getting our guys out of Iraq, increasing the GI Bill.



He followed the Bush Withdrawal Plans in Iraq and we aren't _out_...

And the way things are Trending there, we are likely to be back. 



peace...


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## mal (Jul 30, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


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bin Laden was Supposedly Dying and on Dialysis in the Hills of Pakistan back in the early Oughts...

I can find endless Stories about that.

How did he Survive?... Did he go to Cuba for Medical Care?



peace...


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## catzmeow (Jul 30, 2012)

About Obama's use of the quote:  FactCheck.org : Obama, Guns and &#8216;The Untouchables&#8217;

Money quote:



> Chozick, June 13, 2008: He [Obama] warned that the general election campaign could get ugly. Theyre going to try to scare people. Theyre going to try to say that that Obama is a scary guy,  he said. A donor yelled out a deep accented Dont give in!
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> I wont but that sounded pretty scary. Youre a tough guy, Obama said.
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> If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun, Obama said. Because from what I understand folks in Philly like a good brawl. Ive seen Eagles fans.


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## Moonglow (Jul 30, 2012)

well, wouldn't you? I would.


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## Buford (Jul 30, 2012)

catzmeow said:


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Do you endorse the President's comments in the light of his asking for a more civil discourse in our political rhetoric?  Barky sounds like a lying hypocrite to me.


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## catzmeow (Jul 30, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


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Even if they'd published photos, people would have claimed they were fakes.  There's no way to unconspiracy a conspiracy theorist.


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## mal (Jul 30, 2012)

Buford said:


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It was 2008... We are a Kindler and Gentler Politic these days. 



peace...


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## Moonglow (Jul 30, 2012)

Buford said:


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Yes he ask for it and did not get any, at that point you, me, him would consider that the only way to put up with aggression is aggression.


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## catzmeow (Jul 30, 2012)

Buford said:


> Do you endorse the President's comments in the light of his asking for a more civil discourse in our political rhetoric?  Barky sounds like a lying hypocrite to me.



Of course, because I realize that his comments were metaphoric.  He wasn't actually talking about bringing a gun to a political rally; he was talking about addressing a political opponent and beating him at his game through superior preparation and strategy.  i always endorse winning.  

I've often heard people talk about bringing a knife to a gun fight...in most cases, it was understood that there was no actual stabbing or shooting occuring.  The quote addresses being prepared to scrap with your opponent and take it to the mattress.


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## mal (Jul 30, 2012)

catzmeow said:


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Do you remember the Reports of how Ill he was back in 2002?...

Widespread.

Why so quickly Dispose of his Body and why do it in a way that is Respectful of his "Faith" (And Conveniently Eliminates ALL Evidence) when so many say that he was Molesting Islam?



peace...


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## Wry Catcher (Jul 30, 2012)

Some Guy said:


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11.  Vision

12.  Patience

13.  Common Sense

14.  Temperance

15.  Diligence

All 15 are qualities which President Obama has brought to the Oval Office.  That he is hated by the radical right extremists and roadblocked by a radical dishonorable opposition and is still able to demonstrate these character traits everyday is remarkable.

Nice traits in a friend, essential traits in a president.


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## Foxfyre (Jul 30, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


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Hmmm.

1.  Class is relative.  I don't consider it too classy to automatically accuse a police department of stupidity or racism before knowing the facts.  I don't consider it classy to be told that I owe him and the government a cut of my profits because I didn't build my business.  I don't consider it classy to tell hard working rural folks that they are bitterly clinging to their guns and Bibles.   I don't call it classy to infer that it is the Tea Partiers who incite violence while giving the OWS a pass.   I could go on and on, but this illustrates my point.

2.  I don't call constantly changing rhetoric or positions on things or greviously violating campaign promises or not seeming to hold a single conviction other than the government is the end all of everything to be a 'steady hand.'

3.  I don't think visiting 57 states or calling for more Arabic translators for Afghanistan where no Arabic is spoken or calling for action from the U.N. Security Council in a matter in which it has no authority or being incapable of articulating a complex thought without benefit of a teleprompter demonstrates a great deal of intelligence.

4.  Thoughtfulness.  If that was the case he wouldn't be so out of touch and saying so many things that anger so many of us.

5.  A sense of humor.  Yeah right, unless it is somebody teasing or criticizing him.  I don't find much humor in a website in which people are encouraged to report anybody who criticizes him or the government.

6.  A self effacing personality.   Oh yeah.  His "I won" line to dismiss Republicans who were invited to offer ideas and his bragging about all HIS accomplishments is really self effacing.

7.  Moderation.  You have to be kidding.  A 16 trillion dollar debt, Obamacare, and he is STILL calling for another huge stimulus package?  This is moderation?

8.  A stable economy.  Oh yeah.  I guess that's one way to look at an economy that has been stuck in stagnation for four years.  At least it is stable.

9.  Civility.  See No. 1 above.

10.  A role model for the next generation of leaders?   If that is the case, we're all doomed to an ever more autocratic, authoritarian government, runaway inflation, deficits that will absolutely bankrupt the country, destruction of the upper class, and absorption of all others into the government.  Not something I will look forward to.


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## cereal_killer (Jul 30, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


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.. a highly trained SPEC OPS group goes in and kills, not capture, the most wanted man in the world, gets his body onto a aircraft carrier, cleans him up and throws him into the ocean lol. Zip, bam, boom. Yeah ok 

"Yeah he's dead, we got him. Sorry no pictures we're not going to spike the ball, but trust us he's dead."

They wouldn't show any pictures because there are no pictures. Then some "leaked" ones got out that were proven to be hoaxes. It's all theatre and the American audience sops it up. 

We've become a nation of sheep


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## Buford (Jul 30, 2012)

mal said:


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LOL.  Yeah, insinuating the mass shooter was a member of the Tea Party without checking it out was really Kinder and Gentler.


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## mal (Jul 30, 2012)

Buford said:


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Or is it?



peace...


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## cereal_killer (Jul 30, 2012)

mal said:


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exactly..days before 9/11 he was in a hospital on Dialysis. Tom Brokaw did that story.


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## Buford (Jul 30, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


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This President and his congress were unopposed for two years.  The economy is still in a shambles.  Time to grow up and accept responsibility.


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## Moonglow (Jul 30, 2012)

mal said:


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to lessen martyaridom of Osama


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## Moonglow (Jul 30, 2012)

mal said:


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and there was a report that he was a Muslim, that he was a tea partyier, a leftist, blah, blah. Poor reporting does not a man make.


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## BDBoop (Jul 30, 2012)

Buford said:


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Ah. I assume you mean Barack.


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## IGetItAlready (Jul 30, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


> The Infidel said:
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1. Class - *Knee-jerking to a racist conclusion and making up for it with a hella classy "beer summit". *
2. A steady hand - *Yeah, I hear his short game is really coming around*
3. Intelligence - *The options are endless here but let's go with the 57 states comment*
4. Thoughtfulness - *You bring a knife, we'll bring a gun*
5. A sense of humor - *Michelle didn't go all the way down*
6. A self effacing personality - *I'm sure you meant self aggrandizing* 
7. Moderation - *First two years of his term wasted on his healthcare power grab while totally ignoring the economy, sky rocketing unemployment etc*
8. A stable economy - *My fingers just burst into flames from typing that...*
9. Civility - *As long as you're not white, christian, conservative, American, American ally etc. *
10. A role model for the next generation - *God help us*


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## Moonglow (Jul 30, 2012)

> On August 22, 1862, just a few weeks before signing the Proclamation and after he had already discussed a draft of it with his cabinet in July, he wrote a letter in response to an editorial by Horace Greeley of the New York Tribune which had urged complete abolition. Lincoln differentiates between "my view of official duty" --that is, what he can do in his official capacity as President--and his personal views. Officially he must save the Union above all else; personally he wanted to free all the slaves:
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> I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause.* I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.*
> I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men everywhere could be free.


The office of president carries a heavy burden. Each choice will not please all or many, but is the right thing to do. Obama like Lincoln and other presidents say and do things which they must alter later, it is no sin to change ones mind.


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## Moonglow (Jul 30, 2012)

IGetItAlready said:


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Nothing in the Constitution states that Christianity should be the most favored religion.
The economy is more stable than in 2008.
Read the letter from Abe lincoln. See how many time the word I appears. Wouldn't you be self aggrandizing being the pres?
They had a beer together and came out with a settled issue, even the Bible advocates that.
57 states, you never made a mistake, gaph or error in your life, when will you get back to telling God what he is doing wrong?


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## Moonglow (Jul 30, 2012)

Maybe for a moment the hateful posters could consider that Obama is no perfect man, no one is. We have all made mistakes that made us look like fools. you should not judge so harshly when the question arises of,  could you do the presidents job? Who knows. But trying to be petty and bring out every fold just shows how you could not do his job, because you can't clearly state a position without extreme retorts.
This is the reason the government is in deadlock.


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## Buford (Jul 30, 2012)

BDBoop said:


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yeah, I call him Barky.  Looks like more bad news for Barky.

Three New Polls, More Bad News for Obama - Guy Benson


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## Buford (Jul 30, 2012)

Moonglow said:


> Maybe for a moment the hateful posters could consider that Obama is no perfect man, no one is. We have all made mistakes that made us look like fools. you should not judge so harshly when the question arises of,  could you do the presidents job? Who knows. But trying to be petty and bring out every fold just shows how you could not do his job, because you can't clearly state a position without extreme retorts.
> This is the reason the government is in deadlock.



Your President is a race hustler and a liar.  That is far worse than making "mistakes".  Those are deliberate acts to divide the American people and that is why he needs to be removed from office.


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## Avorysuds (Jul 30, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Getting our guys out of Iraq, increasing the GI Bill.



Didn't Bush do that seeing as he set up the timetable for pulling out and it was followed, despite Obama trying to keep them there?


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## Caroljo (Jul 30, 2012)

Moonglow said:


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"What I was suggesting -- you're absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith..." --in an interview with ABC's George Stephanopoulos, who jumped in to correct Obama by saying "your Christian faith," which Obama quickly clarified 

"The Cambridge police acted stupidly." commenting on a white police officer's arrest of black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. at his home in Cambridge, Mass., at a news conference, July 22, 2009

"On this Memorial Day, as our nation honors its unbroken line of fallen heroes -- and I see many of them in the audience here today -- our sense of patriotism is particularly strong."

"In case you missed it, this week, there was a tragedy in Kansas. Ten thousand people died -- an entire town destroyed." --on a Kansas tornado that killed 12 people

Want more???....there's MANY more of these to entertain yourself with!


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## Foxfyre (Jul 30, 2012)

Moonglow said:


> Maybe for a moment the hateful posters could consider that Obama is no perfect man, no one is. We have all made mistakes that made us look like fools. you should not judge so harshly when the question arises of,  could you do the presidents job? Who knows. But trying to be petty and bring out every fold just shows how you could not do his job, because you can't clearly state a position without extreme retorts.
> This is the reason the government is in deadlock.



Actually I cut Obama a LOT of slack and will even defend him when he is falsely accused. Much more so than I have ever seen most of the left, including you, do for Romney.

But honestly, as reflected in my response to Wry Catcher, when there is so much to criticize and so little to praise, at what point do you admit that it is a failed Presidency and it is time for the President, however well intended he might have been, to step down or be voted out?  Do you think we should be trying to get George Bush re-elected had his second term been his first?  Should Jimmy Carter have been elected after creating one of the worst misery indexes since the Great Depression?   The current misery index is beginning to approximate that.  Once we have double digit inflation, double digit interest rates, plus unacceptable high employment we'll be there.


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## catzmeow (Jul 30, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


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I don't consider Obama a failed president.  I consider him more effective than GWB.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 30, 2012)

Avorysuds said:


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The SOFA expired and he pulled them out, basically yes this was Bush's plan also.


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## Avorysuds (Jul 30, 2012)

I don't have any plans to vote for Mitt but the only difference I see is Obama failed to fix anything as President and Mitt has not had that chance to fail yet.


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## Avorysuds (Jul 30, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


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Correct, but we were kicked out seeing as Obama tried to keep them there... So if Obama had his way he would have in fact kept troops in Iraq. I don't see the difference between you claiming Mitt would have not removed them and that Obama did when the only reason Obama removed them was because Bush's timetable was up and the Iraq Government kicked Obama out, wouldn't that have happened to Mitt too?


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## High_Gravity (Jul 30, 2012)

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I don't know if Mitt would have removed them or not.


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## BDBoop (Jul 30, 2012)

Buford said:


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What country are you from, that he is not your President.


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## Buford (Jul 30, 2012)

BDBoop said:


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Obama stopped being my President when he used race for political gain.  He's done it a couple times now.  The President of the United States is above that kind of crap.


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## BDBoop (Jul 30, 2012)

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No he didn't. You are in this country, he is the President of this country. To believe anything else would involve an irrational mindset.


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## Foxfyre (Jul 30, 2012)

catzmeow said:


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Well it is a free country and it is a wonderful thing that we are not penalized for holding whatever opinions we hold.

But in my opinion, if you compare the accomplishments and the consequences of both guys, I wouldn't want either one as my President for the next four years, but neverthless GWB was head and shoulders more effective and less destructive than has been Barack Hussein Obama.

I was so frustrated with President Bush by the end of his second term, that I couldn't imagine that Obama could be worse.   I was wrong.  You know that sign. . . . 







. . . .by the end of Obama's second year I was emphatically thinking, yeah I do.


----------



## Avorysuds (Jul 30, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Avorysuds said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



lol, ok but you did say that was the difference between Obama and Mitt at the start of the thread.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 30, 2012)

Avorysuds said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Avorysuds said:
> ...



I was listing that as one of the things he did to benefit America.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Jul 30, 2012)

Better attention to veterans.

Out of Iraq, downsizing Afghanistan, leading from the rear in Libya and Egypt, killing terrorist leadership.

Evolving leadership in civilian and military matters in gay affairs.


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## Wry Catcher (Jul 30, 2012)

16.  Experienced

17.  Only Jackie Robinson was able to  shoulder the vile comments of racist bores and hold composure better than our President.


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## Avorysuds (Jul 30, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Avorysuds said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



Ahh ok, my bad then. Yes it was a good thing, it was sad to see him try and stay there until the Iraq Government kicked us out. It was also sad seeing Obama claim he ended the Iraq war 2 times.

I never thought Obama would be as bad as a President as he has been. I honestly thought after Bush all someone had to do was show up and they would be a "great President," but Obama expanded almost ever Bush era policy and made so many mistakes and simply wouldn't listen to anyone that disagreed with him.

I never voted for Bush or Obama, I did a write in instead. I have no bias between Reps or Dems, just for the record. If anything listing by policy where Reps and Dems are different is very hard to do.


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## Buford (Jul 30, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> Buford said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...



Yes, he did.  He did it with the Black professor and the "beer summit" and he did it with the Martin-Zimmerman tragedy.  My opinion is not "irrational".  You're teetering on the edge.


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## Avorysuds (Jul 30, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


> 16.  Experienced
> 
> 17.  Only Jackie Robinson was able to  shoulder the vile comments of racist bores and hold composure better than our President.



Of course Obama can take shoulder racist comments well, he spent 20 years going to a well known racist church learning how.

It would be very interesting to see you provide links/videos to your list, it in fact comes across as more trolling when you just say things that most people, even liberals know to not even be in the realm of truth when describing Obama. What kind of reaction do you expect from saying experience when listing Obamas good qualities when he is in fact the least experienced President in this courtiers history?


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## Buford (Jul 30, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Better attention to veterans.
> 
> Out of Iraq, downsizing Afghanistan, leading from the rear in Libya and Egypt, killing terrorist leadership.
> 
> Evolving leadership in civilian and military matters in gay affairs.



So why aren't you voting for him?


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## catzmeow (Jul 30, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Well it is a free country and it is a wonderful thing that we are not penalized for holding whatever opinions we hold.
> 
> But in my opinion, if you compare the accomplishments and the consequences of both guys, I wouldn't want either one as my President for the next four years, but neverthless GWB was head and shoulders more effective and less destructive than has been Barack Hussein Obama.
> 
> ...



I never had this feeling.  My entire feeling during Obama's presidency has been one of relief that he was not Bush2 or Palin.  I don't love the guy, I voted for him reluctantly, but he has not been nearly as bad as I imagined he might be.


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## The Infidel (Jul 30, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > Aside from "He's not Romney" What do you seriously believe that he has brought to the Office of the President. Name what he has done that has actually helped America.
> ...





*1.  Class. *

I would not call sending the bust of Churchill back to England a classy move.. I would not call giving the queen of England a CD of his speeches classy.... 

 *2.  A steady hand*

Having Valerie Jarred tell ya three times to not do Osama raid a steady hand... Having a letter blaming someone else in case it went bad, is not having a steady hand.

* 3.  Intelligence.*

Proof...? I dont know about you, but have you seen his grades? 57 states?? Navy corpse men??? Breathalizers for kids...??? 

*4.  Thoughtfulness*

The cops acted stupidly.... I will say no more 

 *5.  A sense of humor*

OK... maybe

*6.  A self effacing personality *



* 7.  Moderation*

Have you seen the deficit lately?

* 8.  A stable economy*

You are joking right 

 *9.  Civility (for the contrast see anything stated by VP Cheney)*

he has been guilty of it too... just look at how he talked about Hannity and Rush in the past.
Look at how he says I want dirty air and water... how I want to toss granny over a cliff...

*10.  A role model for the next generation of leaders.*

Its not his fault... blame Boosh... yeah, what a leader and roll model.


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## catzmeow (Jul 30, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Avorysuds said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...


McCain was making noises about keeping the troops in Iraq past the deadline; that would have likely meant a return visit for my husband.  Thanks, but no thanks.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 30, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Getting our guys out of Iraq, increasing the GI Bill.



We still have people there.


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## Avorysuds (Jul 30, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Better attention to veterans.
> 
> Out of Iraq, downsizing Afghanistan, leading from the rear in Libya and Egypt, killing terrorist leadership.
> 
> Evolving leadership in civilian and military matters in gay affairs.



I fully understand people can have their opinions about what Obama has done but Im at a loss with a few of the points people are making.

We have covered that Obama in fact tried to stay in Iraq, he was kicked out and literality only followed Bushs timetable. As far as I know Obama expanded Afghanistan, and there is no such thing as leading from behind when you start the wars, not to mention the UN does not overrule the US constitution. Obama provided intell, money, weapons, bombing and so on with Libya, there was no leading from behind. The us is the UN, the UN is the US's way to start wars without following the constitution.

I guess I could give you that Obama killed big heads in the war on terror, but he certainly didnt do that by getting out of Iraq and shrinking the US role in Afghanistan


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## BDBoop (Jul 30, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > Aside from "He's not Romney" What do you seriously believe that he has brought to the Office of the President. Name what he has done that has actually helped America.
> ...



I'm not seeing much feedback on my points.


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## Buford (Jul 30, 2012)

The best thing the Obama administration is good at is propaganda and speaking to emotionally immature people on their level.


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## JakeStarkey (Jul 30, 2012)

Because I am essentially conservative, and I believe that the economic strategy of the USA will be better served by Romney than Obama.

Romney is not against regulation, simply for smart regulation.

Romney, as a Mormon (traditionally non-confrontational when possible), will lead from the rear where possible in foreign affairs.  Iran may be a real exception where he may be very, very pro-active.  He will be for a strong defense but does not think a US defense budget larger than the next 26 nations' budgets is necessary.  He will make some solid cuts in it.

He will be able to work with the Dems in the Senate (if they keep it this fall) and has absolutely no fear of the McConnels and more conservative GOP senators.  He will cut some reform in SS (no privatization, though he wants it), and I would not be surprised if he tries some expansion of Medicaid in lieu of ACA.

Better balance over all without disrupting the nation.



Buford said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Better attention to veterans.
> ...


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## The Infidel (Jul 30, 2012)

Wry Catcher said:


> 16.  Experienced
> 
> 17.  Only Jackie Robinson was able to  shoulder the vile comments of racist bores and hold composure better than our President.



Experienced..???? 

At what, being a community organizor?

And give me a break on the race BS.... That is a myth perpetrated by Dems


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## catzmeow (Jul 30, 2012)

Buford said:


> The best thing the Obama administration is good at is propaganda and speaking to emotionally immature people on their level.



And the Republican propaganda machine is best at distorting facts and scaring people who are already scared of the bogeyman.

Smart people would avoid both like the plague and try to develop the ability to think independently and a little cynically about them.


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## Buford (Jul 30, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...



Allowing sexual perverts to come out of the closet in the military is not what many Americans consider an "accomplishment".  Many see it as just another attack on traditional American values that Romney will have to bring back.


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## Buford (Jul 30, 2012)

catzmeow said:


> Buford said:
> 
> 
> > The best thing the Obama administration is good at is propaganda and speaking to emotionally immature people on their level.
> ...



Obama took half a trillion out of medicare right when the baby boomers are retiring.  I don't need to scare anyone.


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## catzmeow (Jul 30, 2012)

Buford said:


> catzmeow said:
> 
> 
> > Buford said:
> ...



The baby boomers voted themselves an unprecedented level of benefits, and they did it on their kids' dime.  They are the first American generation to enrich themselves by borrowing from their kids.  It's unconscionable.  Medicare needs to be revamped to fee for service, and a sliding income scale.


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## JakeStarkey (Jul 30, 2012)

Infidel, you are wrong.  We have a lot of racism in the GOP, particularly in my area of the South.

That does not mean the Dems are free of it, not by a long shot.



The Infidel said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > 16.  Experienced
> ...


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## IGetItAlready (Jul 30, 2012)

Buford said:


> The best thing the Obama administration is good at is propaganda and speaking to emotionally immature people on their level.



The worst thing about Obama is the embarrassing image of the presidency as an office of blame gaming he has created in our youth. 

Remember back when the word "inheritance" never made it into our political discourse?


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## Buford (Jul 30, 2012)

catzmeow said:


> Buford said:
> 
> 
> > catzmeow said:
> ...



No, that's not correct.  This President and his congress passed a massive tax called Obamacare and they needed more money to fund it.  That's what happened.


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## Buford (Jul 30, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Infidel, you are wrong.  We have a lot of racism in the GOP, particularly in my area of the South.
> 
> That does not mean the Dems are free of it, not by a long shot.
> 
> ...



We never had a President who used race for political gain until this President.


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## The Infidel (Jul 30, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...




Ok... Its your turn.

The accomplishments you listed have done nothing good in my opinion.
Repealing DADT... How is that beneficial to MOST Americans?

His support of SSM... What exactly has he changed legislatively for "gays"?

The American Jobs Act, so what if it got killed by the Republicans?
What good would it have done?

We have NO IDEA what good the ACA will do... it is not in full affect till 2014, and I wonder why that is....  

Im sorry BD, but I just dont see how Obama has "helped" America as a country.
Sure he is carrying out the liberal agenda, and attempting to "fundamentally change America", but what good is he doing for us as a whole?


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## The Infidel (Jul 30, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Infidel, you are wrong.  We have a lot of racism in the GOP, particularly in my area of the South.
> 
> That does not mean the Dems are free of it, not by a long shot.
> 
> ...



Well I live in the South and the only racism I have seen on a large scale is from the black community.
I have only came across a couple of typical redneck racists... and they are idiots to begin with.

Not saying it is not a problem on both sides, but to the extent it is claimed.... no way.


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## Avorysuds (Jul 30, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...



To be honest, they are not very good points. 

Obama is a welfare President, it's very hard to attack a welfare President because "they care." You actually have to understand the blowback of welfare, when you understand that the ACA, stimulus, bailouts and so on simply buy votes while destroying middle class wealth then it's near impossible to like Obama, or Bush.

Obamas challenges were not to push HC or start more wars Obamas challenge of the time he was President was to get spending under control, to work on the economy and make the hard choices. This is what Obama ran off of but then became the most stereotypical President in US history. I honestly am not sure Obama made a single hard choice in his whole Presidency, and by hard choice I mean did something politically unpopular to solve a real problem.

Near every single politically unpopular position Obama has taken was to secure future votes by providing some form of welfare. Obama has been very predictable once he showed what his real goals were. Obama ran on cutting and less spending, look back at his speeches and interviews if you dont believe me What Obama has done is expand the Neoconservative policies merging them seamlessly with the Progressive policies of the left. 

I keep saying it, the country needed a Harding but got and FDR This is what it was really like in the FDR depression, excuse after excuse why spending and programs didnt solve anything.


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## JakeStarkey (Jul 30, 2012)

Of course we have.  Just a few:

The GOP through the late 1860s right up to 1876 ran campaigns based on the black enfranchised vote in the South to deny the democrats majorities in those states.

Samuel Tilden and the dems in the south and the midwest through the 1870s and the 1880s.  The dems in the south at the state level for more than a century after the Civil War.  

The Dixiecrats of 1948 were infuriated with President Truman's enforcement of integration in the Armed Forces and ran Strom Thurmond on a racist platform, which won a number of states. 

Nixon's Southern Strategy in 1968 was designed to pull former dems upset with their party's support of federally-enforced era of civil rights, a brilliant move politically which has transformed the South.






Buford said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Infidel, you are wrong.  We have a lot of racism in the GOP, particularly in my area of the South.
> ...


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## catzmeow (Jul 30, 2012)

Buford said:


> No, that's not correct.  This President and his congress passed a massive tax called Obamacare and they needed more money to fund it.  That's what happened.



Have you been in an Emergency Room recently?  I have, 3 times in the past year (my son has had athletic injuries).  It's hell.  The system is broken.  if the tax requires people to get insurance and stop clogging the ER to get free treatment that is non-emergency, good.

I'm already paying for deadbeats to obtain treatment (via inflated ER costs, which in turn affects the costs of my health insurance).  If that cost is shifted to the deadbeats, I win.


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## JakeStarkey (Jul 30, 2012)

West Florida to East Texas, race and racism plays a major role in local politics.  Now, a Latinos grow in numbers, they entering the realm of voting based on color.

This is a simple fact.  It happens, happens in both parties all the time, and sometimes is a major factor.



The Infidel said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Infidel, you are wrong.  We have a lot of racism in the GOP, particularly in my area of the South.
> ...


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## catzmeow (Jul 30, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> Repealing DADT... How is that beneficial to MOST Americans?



We stop flushing good service personnel because of where they put their penis.



> His support of SSM... What exactly has he changed legislatively for "gays"?



Legislative changes aren't required.  Getting rid of government incursions on people's civil liberties is something that should always be stopped.



> The American Jobs Act, so what if it got killed by the Republicans?
> What good would it have done?
> 
> We have NO IDEA what good the ACA will do... it is not in full affect till 2014, and I wonder why that is....
> ...



I don't consider him all that liberal, nor do I think that we're being fundamentally changed.  The healthcare system has been broken for a while now.


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## The Infidel (Jul 30, 2012)

catzmeow said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > Repealing DADT... How is that beneficial to MOST Americans?
> ...



Well how about that.... we are carrying on a "clean debate" 

BUT YOUR WRONG..!!!! 




 J/K 

Thanks Cat  we obviously see it differently.


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## Interpol (Jul 30, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> Aside from "He's not Romney" What do you seriously believe that he has brought to the Office of the President. Name what he has done that has actually helped America.
> 
> Specifics would be greatly appreciated....




I will be voting to re-elect the President in November in part because of his stellar foreign policy cred. 

I find myself surprised to even be writing that as a former George W. Bush supporter from 2000. 

President Obama said he'd withdraw from Iraq, and he did what he said. 

On Afghanistan, I would personally like to see a faster withdrawal, but Obama is exercising prudence and caution. I disagree with him on that one, but oddly, I trust him. 

In the presidential debate, he said that if he had Bin Laden in his sights, he would get the guy even if he was in Pakistan. 

Well, we got him in our sights, he was in Pakistan, and Obama could have chosen to outsource the job to them or he could have chosen to bomb the compound into smithereens, leaving us with no evidence. 

Instead, he risked his entire presidency by doing things the hard way. The killing of Osama Bin Laden was a total success on every level, from the President to the SEALS. 

It took the previous administration $1 trillion, 10 years and 4,500 dead Americans to kill one American killing dictator. 

In Libya, it took this President 6 months, $1 billion, and no dead Americans to kill the American killing Gaddafi. Obama got everybody else to pay for that one, and the job was done well. Kudos to him on that one. 

I support Ronald Reagan's legacy of reducing the world's nuke supply. President Obama has continued this legacy, re-signing the ABM treaty with Russia. 

The cyber attacks on Iran. Awesome. 

---------------

On the domestic front, President Obama is the first to sign major health care reforms into law in more than 40 years. 

After the dust has settled and folks learn what is in it, we see that it is imperfect, but that it contains common sense measures like forcing the industry to cover folks with pre-existing conditions. 

Small businesses are already taking advantage of many of the things in it for them, contrary to the beliefs of some that they will simply drop coverage for everyone in the country. If they could drop people and pay a fine instead, than why aren't they dropping everyone now when there is no fine? The answer? Because the fearmongering by some of us is unfounded. 

The Affordable Care Act is a moderate to conservative bill that keeps health care in private hands, while it demands a little sacrifice from all ends. Republicans of the past would have been happy to pass this legislation. 

Mitt Romney said "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt", while this President came to the rescue of America's auto industry. It was not an easy thing to do, but he did it. And he did it at the urging of the auto industry. 

I support tougher Wall St. regulations, like Glass-Steagall. I wish it had been put back into law. The Volcker Rule is something we can all support. That's the pesky regulation that says we the public are no longer on the hook to bailout too-big-to-fail banks. 

A conservative, prudent person is one who wishes to see the free market preserved for generations to come, therefore we must drive with one hand on the steering wheel in order so that some folks can't abuse our capitalist system. Not all regulations are bad. 

President Obama's administration has passed fewer regulations that the previous administration. 

Under President Obama, deportations are up 10% over the previous administration. 

President Obama has lowered taxes for 95% of us. 

The Stimulus worked to bring us back from being in the ditch. The jobs bill he wishes to pass is stuff that conservatives used to pass in their sleep. 

So, even though he is imperfect, I support President Obama because he is a fellow moderate like myself who places common sense and compromise over dogmatic ideologies of the past. 

But he gets a huge thumbs up from me on his foreign policy credentials, which are stellar.  

This country can really get moving again with him at the wheel, and I am tired of his legitimacy coming into question from blowhards, Birchers, birthers, flat-earthers and racists. 

I want the jobs bill passed, not another abortion bill or another motion to cut taxes on the Mitt Romneys of the world while raising taxes on the working poor, which is un-Christian like in my humble opinion.


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## jillian (Jul 30, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> Aside from "He's not Romney" What do you seriously believe that he has brought to the Office of the President. Name what he has done that has actually helped America.
> 
> Specifics would be greatly appreciated....



while i understand your question. the thread title is clearly not intended to lead to "clean debate". i've never known anyone to use the president's middle name without a specific purpose.

i'd prefer to hear what there is about going back to all of the failed policies of the bush administration that would appeal to anyone.


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## The Infidel (Jul 30, 2012)

jillian said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > Aside from "He's not Romney" What do you seriously believe that he has brought to the Office of the President. Name what he has done that has actually helped America.
> ...



Oh freeking quit it already...!

Is that not his name Jillian???

Plus, if ya want to hear what there is GOOD about going back to all of the failed policies of the bush administration and how that would appeal to anyone.... start a thread.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 30, 2012)

jillian said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > Aside from "He's not Romney" What do you seriously believe that he has brought to the Office of the President. Name what he has done that has actually helped America.
> ...



How many democrats supported Bushes failed policy?


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## Buford (Jul 30, 2012)

jillian said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > Aside from "He's not Romney" What do you seriously believe that he has brought to the Office of the President. Name what he has done that has actually helped America.
> ...



Are you ashamed of the President's middle name?  Are you offended by the President's middle name?  Why aren't you tolerant of those who use his middle name?


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## Foxfyre (Jul 30, 2012)

catzmeow said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Well it is a free country and it is a wonderful thing that we are not penalized for holding whatever opinions we hold.
> ...



And I had high hopes that he would be the man who campaigned for the office.  He isn't.  He has proved to be disingenous about almost all of the 'high sounding' rhetoric he used back then, and most of his views are not defensible.  I think he has added the least amount of positive influence and has been the most destructive President of my lifetime.  And that is getting to be quite a long lifetime.

By contrast, we got exactly the President Bush he promised to be and still is.   We were just so anxious to get a Republican in there that we didn't vet him properly re a number of important issues during the nomination or he might not have won the nomination.


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## BDBoop (Jul 30, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...



I already spoke my truth. If you're going to blow off every last word, fair game, then. We have nothing further to discuss.


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## Buford (Jul 30, 2012)

Another instance of lying to the American people and using race to further their agenda.

Obstruction of Justice: DC Judge Rules Obama's Political Appointees Interfered With New Black Panther Case - Katie Pavlich


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## The Infidel (Jul 30, 2012)

Buford said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...



Reminds me of John McCain....


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## BDBoop (Jul 30, 2012)

jillian said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > Aside from "He's not Romney" What do you seriously believe that he has brought to the Office of the President. Name what he has done that has actually helped America.
> ...



Another good thread needs starting.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 30, 2012)

catzmeow said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Well it is a free country and it is a wonderful thing that we are not penalized for holding whatever opinions we hold.
> ...



obama is far worse than bush. how can you over look that?


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## The Infidel (Jul 30, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...



Did you not ask for feedback?

Damn, why you got to be such a baby about it?

Are we not having an adult conversation here??? 

WTF?


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## BDBoop (Jul 30, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...



She's not BD.


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## BDBoop (Jul 30, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...



Stop crying. I was polite in my response, I don't know why you are so upset.

And the large font is irritating.


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## The Infidel (Jul 30, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...



I fixed it... you guys Avies confused me 



Sorry Dear


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## Buford (Jul 30, 2012)

Is Romney going to govern with failed Bush policies?


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## Buford (Jul 30, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...


*
Is it so hard to not make things personal?*

The large font seems to be personally irritating to someone.  Using Barky's middle name seems to be personally irritating also.  Anything else?


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## The Infidel (Jul 30, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...



ok.... look.... I meesed up and thought it was you on both posts...

Big mistake.... can we start over? 


And the font is because everybody kept telling me they could not see my writing, said it was too small.... ugh, I cant win for losing


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## BDBoop (Jul 30, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...



Start over.


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## Buford (Jul 30, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...



Trying to please everyone will only make you as sick as they are.


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## Avorysuds (Jul 30, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...



The problem is you made issue of people not giving you feedback. You gave near meaningless points that can&#8217;t even be measured as accomplishments.

If my goal was to mow the lawn and make it healthy but I instead cut the lawn to low with dull blades ripping the grass so that much of the lawn died did I accomplish my goal?

You use Obamacare as if it has lived up to a single benchmark Obama and his team set. The Stimulus and Obamacare both failed to do ANYTHING they claimed, so you and they count passing of the bills as the accomplishment instead of fixing the issue.

Obamacare&#8217;s goal was to immediately lower HC costs and create jobs, in fact there are less jobs and HC costs are growing faster now due to Obamacare. So the accomplishment of passing the bill is meaningless if the accomplishment of fixing the problem never happens.

You asked for feedback on talking points, if you don't like that feedback it's your choice to blow off every last word.

I quickly got a video to show Obama talking about HC costs and Obamacare, I don't care if you like the video or what the Video is about.


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## Buford (Jul 30, 2012)

Obama has failed but he meant well, which is all Americans need to know to give him another term.  And don't you dare call him Barack Hussein Obama.  Some of his supporters are offended by that.


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## BDBoop (Jul 30, 2012)

Avorysuds said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...



Exactly.

But I never mentioned the stimulus.

My mouse is behaving badly, so until I can get a new one, C&P is not really my friend. But visit the following link, with citations for every line, to see why I believe as I do.

A LONG List of President Obama&#8217;s Accomplishments! With Citations! | Addicting Info

Edit: Finally got the mouse to click & grab - at least once.



> *Treating  Soldiers and Veterans with Respect
> *
> He made sure that families of fallen soldiers could be on hand when the body arrives at Dover AFB, by providing funding for it.  He also ended the media blackout on coverage of the return of fallen soldiers.http://nyti.ms/glqN66 http://bbc.in/gWSSkA
> 
> ...


----------



## Buford (Jul 30, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> Avorysuds said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...



You can use your keyboard to C&P


----------



## Buford (Jul 30, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> Avorysuds said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...



You can use your keyboard to C&P


----------



## The Infidel (Jul 30, 2012)

Duplication is good when making babies, but not when posting


----------



## JakeStarkey (Jul 30, 2012)

Far too many dems and far too many pubs



bigrebnc1775 said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...


----------



## Avorysuds (Jul 30, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> Avorysuds said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...



And in about 45 seconds I can google Bush's list, then Clintons, then Bush's then Reagan's list... Would you like me to do that?

More simply put you&#8217;re not debating. You&#8217;re tossing out meaningless lists or talking points and not backing any of it up with how it fixed anything. I don&#8217;t care about Obama&#8217;s huge massive list of spending, the economy is compared to that of the great depression, so obviously that grand accomplishments list lacks the policies that help an economy and jobs. 

This is where talking points and trolling comes into play&#8230; This is where this section hopes to stem that flow. What I mean to say is please don&#8217;t link me that &#8220;massive Obama accomplishments list&#8221; then tell me that the economy still sucks because Republicans block everything Obama tries to do&#8230; Obviously by such a large list if Obama wanted to get something done with the economy and UE he very well could have.


----------



## BDBoop (Jul 30, 2012)

Avorysuds said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > Avorysuds said:
> ...



To what point. This thread is about Obama.


----------



## BDBoop (Jul 30, 2012)

Buford said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > Avorysuds said:
> ...



But how to hilite before cutting.


----------



## Avorysuds (Jul 30, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> Avorysuds said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...



I did an edit on that post.

More simply put youre not debating. Youre tossing out meaningless lists or talking points and not backing any of it up with how it fixed anything. I dont care about Obamas huge massive list of spending, the economy is compared to that of the great depression, so obviously that grand accomplishments list lacks the policies that help an economy and jobs. 

This is where talking points and trolling comes into play This is where this section hopes to stem that flow. What I mean to say is please dont link me that massive Obama accomplishments list then tell me that the economy still sucks because Republicans block everything Obama tries to do Obviously by such a large list if Obama wanted to get something done with the economy and UE he very well could have.


----------



## Intense (Jul 30, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Getting our guys out of Iraq, increasing the GI Bill.



I thought that was in line with the Bush Time Line?


----------



## BDBoop (Jul 30, 2012)

Avorysuds said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > Avorysuds said:
> ...



I posted what he is accomplished, because it is what I am proud of him accomplishing. That is not talking points. That is statement of facts. Apparently I am fine with what was done. You, not so much. The fact that we are polar opposites in our beliefs and how we perceive things does not make either one of us right OR wrong.


----------



## Big Black Dog (Jul 30, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> Aside from "He's not Romney" What do you seriously believe that he has brought to the Office of the President. Name what he has done that has actually helped America.
> 
> Specifics would be greatly appreciated....



Obama has shown us what a "one term" President looks like.  In my opinion, he is the worst President this country has ever had.  His "I'm sorry" world tour at the beginning of his Presidency was very ugly for America and shameful.  There is no subject that he hasn't lied about in public.  His legacy will be to show us a point in history that we never want to return to again.


----------



## NLT (Jul 30, 2012)

Some Guy said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > 1.  Class.
> ...



List them then...Tell us what makes Obama a good President..list all his accomplishments that justifies a 2nd term, besides the death of bin laden, which any president with the same intel would have ordered.


----------



## 007 (Jul 30, 2012)

I can name one thing that he WILL do that will help America, and that's GET OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE!

Until then, he hasn't done one damn thing to help this country. His term in office has been one massive push for wealth redistribution, aka-socialism, massive government take over and growth, MIND NUMBING spending and debt growth, and pushing back race relations 75 years. He's the worst president this country has ever seen, and he's not even done yet.


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## Sallow (Jul 30, 2012)

-Killing Osama Bin Laden.
-Passing the Lilly Ledbetter Act.
-Passing the ACA.
-Saving the Financial Industry.
-Saving the Auto Industry.
-Steady job growth.
-Securing the borders with National Guard.
-Deporting Illegals at a record pace.
-Normalizing relations with our Allies.
-SALT agreement with Russia.
-Made BP pay to clean up their mess.
-Saved 2 journalists from North Korea.
-Killing Al Qaeda leaders and members at a record pace.
-Backed the factions that killed Mommar Gaddafi.
-Middle Class and Small Business Tax cut.
-Is serious about paying down the debt.
-Brought Iraq to a successful conclusion.
-Stabilized Afghanistan.


----------



## Avorysuds (Jul 30, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> Avorysuds said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...



Oddly Obama's list is strikingly similar to that of Bush's list.

Anyways, you are not debating and you were the one that asked for feedback. I honestly think you need to look up how debating works. Sure, you can claim Obamacare!!! but thats not debate debate is you using Obamacare as a starting point and then showing *why* you think it was a good thing, usually consisting of sources factual information that lead you to believe Obamacare or whatever youre debating is something you agree with.

Again, you asked for feed back of a list, not a list with your personal reasons for supporting that list, just a list.


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## edthecynic (Jul 30, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> The biggest tax hike on Americans in the history of the US.


Sorry, Reagan owns that distinction.


----------



## edthecynic (Jul 30, 2012)

Zander said:


> He's overseen the largest increase in debt in the history of the world.


Nope Bush still owns that one.


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## The Infidel (Jul 30, 2012)

edthecynic said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> > He's overseen the largest increase in debt in the history of the world.
> ...



Can you lie in the "clean the bait zone"?


----------



## edthecynic (Jul 30, 2012)

Buford said:


> catzmeow said:
> 
> 
> > Buford said:
> ...


THe Right has to exaggerate everything to the extreme because otherwise they would have nothing to debate! Everyone knows Obama was speaking figuratively and not literally, but without taking him literally the Right would have no argument, and they know it.


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## 007 (Jul 30, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Zander said:
> ...



From what I've seen so far, yes.


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## WillowTree (Jul 30, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Zander said:
> ...



Why yes you can. You, however are not allowed to ask questions.


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## The Infidel (Jul 30, 2012)

Sallow said:


> -Killing Osama Bin Laden.
> -Passing the Lilly Ledbetter Act. *Thats why women make less in Obama WH*
> -Passing the ACA. *fUNNY none of the "good stuff starts till 2014*
> -Saving the Financial Industry. *Why are folks still broke and banks not loaning?*
> ...




Nice job


----------



## The Infidel (Jul 30, 2012)

edthecynic said:


> Buford said:
> 
> 
> > catzmeow said:
> ...



Remember all the little cross hairs on districts in Arizona, and all the trouble it was for a certain lovely woman???


We here on the right have memories ya know....


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## The Infidel (Jul 30, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



But but.... diversity and all


----------



## Trajan (Jul 30, 2012)

Sallow said:


> -Killing Osama Bin Laden.
> -Passing the Lilly Ledbetter Act.
> -Passing the ACA.
> -Saving the Financial Industry.
> ...



-Killing Osama Bin Laden.- check
-Passing the Lilly Ledbetter Act. Big deal she hustled the system with his happy help. 
-Passing the ACA. And half the country doesn&#8217;t like it and he laid about the budget neutrality and the tax hits it will evolve&#8230;
-Saving the Financial Industry. Hello dodd frank?
-Saving the Auto Industry. By breaking contracts, giving parts of the co. to its workers, the stock price is in the shitter, their finance arm will need a bailout , they still owe us at least $15Bn, what about Delphi? 
-Steady job growth. Don&#8217;t make me laugh
-Securing the borders with National Guard. When Arrrnnnnooolld  did it, he was scolded by the left, oh so now its cool, got it. 
-Deporting Illegals at a record pace.check
-Normalizing relations with our Allies. like Poland and Israel? 
-SALT agreement with Russia. A bomb and he got taken&#8230;&#8230;
-Made BP pay to clean up their mess. Who wouldn&#8217;t, whooppe&#8230;the sun rose he get credit for that too? 
-Saved 2 journalists from North Korea. You mean the idiots that got caught? What about the kids in iran? 
-Killing Al Qaeda leaders and members at a record pace. So killing folks is now accepted practice amongst the left,  noted. "rolleyes:
-Backed the factions that killed Mommar Gaddafi. Lead from behind&#8230;.what about yemen, Bahrain and&#8230;Syria? 
-Middle Class and Small Business Tax cut. That were temporary that&#8217;s why they never did much and the gop owns that too btw
-Is serious about paying down the debt.     
-Brought Iraq to a successful conclusion. No status of forces agreement, have you been reading the paper? 
-Stabilized Afghanistan. Check, for now. 


who about the ECONOMY?


----------



## Trajan (Jul 30, 2012)

edthecynic said:


> Buford said:
> 
> 
> > catzmeow said:
> ...



then hold yourself to the same standards you hold the right- 

was that a statement he should have made?

yes, or no?


----------



## jillian (Jul 30, 2012)

strollingbones said:


> and in the 3rd post the debate stops



did you expect anything else with a thread using the president's middle name?


----------



## JakeStarkey (Jul 30, 2012)

Yes, Jake, it's the economy, stupid.

Nothing else.



Trajan said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > -Killing Osama Bin Laden.
> ...


----------



## koshergrl (Jul 30, 2012)

jillian said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> > and in the 3rd post the debate stops
> ...


 
Sounds like flames.


----------



## Dr Grump (Jul 30, 2012)

cereal_killer said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> > the capture of bin laden....
> ...



I disagree. Didn't know the BBC were conspiracy theorists. Too many people involved for it to be a conspiracy theory. Unless there is hard evidence otherwise, it happened.


----------



## WillowTree (Jul 30, 2012)

I wonder if Barack's mom knew it was going to upset Jillian when she named him Hussein? I'm very curious about that.


----------



## koshergrl (Jul 30, 2012)

Is Hussein not his middle name?

Ultimately, asking people what they think about Obama is not a debate. In a debate, you present a viewpoint, support it, and then take on the opposition.


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## Dr Grump (Jul 30, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...



Yeah, because I always heard George Bush referred to as George Walker Bush; Ditto Ronald Wilson Reagan; and James Earl Carter.....


----------



## Trajan (Jul 30, 2012)

the topic is;


_Aside from "He's not Romney" What do you seriously believe that he has brought to the Office of the President. Name what he has done that has actually helped America.

Specifics would be greatly appreciated.... _


IF there are those that wonder why the OP used obamas middle name, I suggest you start a thread....and ask him?


----------



## WillowTree (Jul 30, 2012)

Trajan said:


> the topic is;
> 
> 
> _Aside from "He's not Romney" What do you seriously believe that he has brought to the Office of the President. Name what he has done that has actually helped America.
> ...







Oh my! A man with a spine.


----------



## jillian (Jul 30, 2012)

Trajan said:


> the topic is;
> 
> 
> _Aside from "He's not Romney" What do you seriously believe that he has brought to the Office of the President. Name what he has done that has actually helped America.
> ...



why would i ask a question that i already know the answer to?

thanks.


----------



## jillian (Jul 30, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > strollingbones said:
> ...



no.


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## jillian (Jul 30, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...



those middle names don't have the same visceral effect.


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## WillowTree (Jul 30, 2012)

jillian said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > the topic is;
> ...



So you purposefully went off topic to derail the thread? Really


----------



## Caroljo (Jul 30, 2012)

jillian said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...




Sounds like you're ashamed of it.....are you ashamed of it?


----------



## JakeStarkey (Jul 30, 2012)

Carol "jolting jo" Jolson


----------



## Dr Grump (Jul 30, 2012)

jillian said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...



I know that 
You know that
They know that.
We're just being honest about it....


----------



## jillian (Jul 30, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



i knew it was something like that.


----------



## The Infidel (Jul 30, 2012)

jillian said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...



What is your hang up with the president's middle name?


----------



## Foxfyre (Jul 30, 2012)

Well one thing that President Obama has brought to the office is a middle name that is politically incorrect to use?   Why so with our President and not so with King Hussein of Jordan?  Add to that any number of questions about his fairly recent and more distant past that it is not considered proper to ask.

So here we are in the fourth year and facing an upcoming election and we haven't vetted the man much more than we did originally.  Huffington Post did have an article today suggesting that President Obama has discovered that he descends from American slaves.  

So what is fair game?  Discuss his record?   The unanswered questions?   His name?  The people with which he has surrounded himself?   Those who support and defend him seem determined to make it all off limits.  And there are those of us who think at least some of this has not been good for America.

But I honestly believe we are all idiots if we don't sort of insist on taking it all on this time.


----------



## Dr Grump (Jul 30, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



Nothing. What's yours?


----------



## The Infidel (Jul 30, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...



Dont think I was asking you... but OK, I have no problem with it.

Seems that others do though.

I dont get it... its his real name right?

Watch at 40 seconds:

Barack Hussein Obama used it as well


----------



## Dr Grump (Jul 30, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> Barack Hussein Obama used it as well



As already stated. I know why you use his full name, you know why you do, and so does everybody else. From day one, the only people who have used his full name have done so out of hate. 

Hey, we can all play pretend. Whatever floats your boat....


----------



## The Infidel (Jul 30, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > Barack Hussein Obama used it as well
> ...



I feel sorry for you folks who lie to yourself in order to make yourselves feel better about the person in the mirror.

That is the mans name... you need to get over it.


----------



## Dr Grump (Jul 30, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...



Sure...
Because after all, I'm the one obssessed with using his full name, just remind us all that he is an Indonesian Muslim of Kenyan heritage. Thanks for reminding me...;o)


----------



## P@triot (Jul 30, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> his constant vigilance to help the least among us (poverty-stricken, elderly and infirm.)



The problem is, that's *not* the job of the President of the United States. And that's where the arguments start. The left believes they can simply break the law. The fact is, if they want the President to "help the least among us" then they need to properly ammend the Constitution.


----------



## bodecea (Jul 30, 2012)

Pale Rider said:


> I can name one thing that he WILL do that will help America, and that's GET OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE!
> 
> Until then, he hasn't done one damn thing to help this country. His term in office has been one massive push for wealth redistribution, aka-socialism, massive government take over and growth, MIND NUMBING spending and debt growth, and pushing back race relations 75 years. He's the worst president this country has ever seen, and he's not even done yet.



DADT has done a great deal to get us out of the dark ages when it comes to equal rights for all Americans serving our country.

And I don't believe OBL is still with us.   That did not happen during the Bush presidency, did it?


----------



## The Infidel (Jul 30, 2012)

Another win for Barack Hussein Obama 

Record number of coal-fired generators to shut down in 2012 | The Daily Caller

_Facing declining demand for electricity and stiff federal environmental regulations, coal plant operators are planning to retire 175 coal-fired generators, or 8.5 percent of the total coal-fired capacity in the United States, according to an analysis by the Energy Information Administration (EIA).

A record-high 57 generators will shut down in 2012, representing 9 gigawatts of electrical capacity, according to EIA. In 2015, nearly 10 gigawatts of capacity from 61 coal-fired generators will be retired.

While many of those coal plants are old and relatively inefficient, the scope of this new planned shutdown is unprecedented.

The coal-fired capacity expected to be retired over the next five years is more than four times greater than retirements performed during the preceding five-year period, EIA noted in the analysis.

The generators that will be retired between 2012 and 2016 are approximately 12% more efficient than the group of units, on average, that retired during 2009-2011, according to the EIA.

The low price of natural gas resulting from the shale boom has led to reduced coal consumption and made the shutdowns necessary, experts say.

But federal and state regulations have also damaged the industry and contributed to plant closures._


----------



## The Infidel (Jul 30, 2012)

bodecea said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > I can name one thing that he WILL do that will help America, and that's GET OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE!
> ...



But the preparations for it did... that can not be denied.

After all, we don't torture... we kill


----------



## P@triot (Jul 30, 2012)

Why are some listing the "killing of terrorists" as an "accomplishment"? A few points in the flaws of this logic:


When George W. Bush did this, he was bashed

Stopping terrorists is not really an "accomplishment", it's the bear minimum expectation for the job. What's he going to do, let these people attack us?

The President is rarely involved with the death of a terrorist. Yes, he gave the orders on Bin Laden (well done). But most of them, the trigger was pulled by our military based on predefined rules of engagement and/or orders and the president had no idea it was going on.


----------



## koshergrl (Jul 31, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



She doesn't have a hang up with it, everybody else does, see the flames she and Grump engaged in above. Which is why she doesn't want them to use it, and if they do, she will use the fact that the have used it to marginalize their post.


----------



## Dr Grump (Jul 31, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...



Can we have that in English please...


----------



## koshergrl (Jul 31, 2012)

^^flame

Nice going.


----------



## BDBoop (Jul 31, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Well one thing that President Obama has brought to the office is a middle name that is politically incorrect to use?   Why so with our President and not so with King Hussein of Jordan?  Add to that any number of questions about his fairly recent and more distant past that it is not considered proper to ask.
> 
> So here we are in the fourth year and facing an upcoming election and we haven't vetted the man much more than we did originally.  Huffington Post did have an article today suggesting that President Obama has discovered that he descends from American slaves.
> 
> ...



Guess it depends on age. I hear it, I think the King of Jordan. Younger people most likely relate it to Saddam.


----------



## Dr Grump (Jul 31, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> ^^flame
> 
> Nice going.



^^^^
Not making sense...





....for a change...


----------



## BDBoop (Jul 31, 2012)

Rottweiler said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > his constant vigilance to help the least among us (poverty-stricken, elderly and infirm.)
> ...



Be more specific. I see some attacks, but nothing explaining why a) the left believes they can simply break the law, and b) why the President defending those folks by not raising their taxes when they can least afford it is "breaking the law."


----------



## koshergrl (Jul 31, 2012)

Have you provided any supporting evidence for your claims, Boop?

I'd like to see what you have that shows Obama has actually  helped the least among us. Our medical programs are still closed to new applicants in my state, and the medical coverage of our Medicare clients and those who already have medical (TANF medical, for example) is lessening.

So who has he helped? And how?


----------



## BDBoop (Jul 31, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> Have you provided any supporting evidence for your claims, Boop?
> 
> I'd like to see what you have that shows Obama has actually  helped the least among us. Our medical programs are still closed to new applicants in my state, and the medical coverage of our Medicare clients and those who already have medical (TANF medical, for example) is lessening.
> 
> So who has he helped? And how?



I believe that to be the fault of your state.

He fights to keep the social safety net in place. Planned Parenthood is part of that net, in giving women in the lower social strata access to testing and birth control. He fights not to have Medicare and Medicaid reduced for those who can least afford it. In fact, that video that he did for helping women from birth to earth was decried by the right as 'nanny government.' 

He gives tax breaks to the middle class, he extends unemployment when there are no jobs to be found. Everything that he does to help, the right either refuses to help pass, or attacks him for doing with an executive order.


----------



## koshergrl (Jul 31, 2012)

That's not supporting evidence. That's just more opinion and vague assertions, for which you give no particulars.

I'm trying really hard here, but I don't see the point. You are demanding specifics and have created this forum...but you aren't playing by the rules and appear to have no clue what a debate is, let alone how to participate in one.


----------



## Interpol (Jul 31, 2012)

Sallow said:


> -Killing Osama Bin Laden.
> -Passing the Lilly Ledbetter Act.
> -Passing the ACA.
> -Saving the Financial Industry.
> ...




That's a pretty fine list whether it's for a Democrat or a Republican in the Oval. 

Democrats are wimps though, and they don't make a case for themselves based on this, while Republicans are stronger and George W. Bush et al would be hammering it home that an overall competence by the White House has returned. 

I can't believe I'm saying this (I'm a Jeff Daniels Repub from Newsroom) but if Obama had been able to do his thing on the debt bill and not face obstruction for obstruction's sake, we would have seen $2 trillion in additional revenue over 10 years, and $2 trillion in spending cuts. 

I like the sound of that. I would have voted for that, but see, these days you can't even admit that Obama is legitimately the President if you're conservative or else the teabaggers jump all over you. 

President Obama's a fair moderate while Mitt Romney is beholden to neo-cons and teabaggers.


----------



## edthecynic (Jul 31, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > Barack Hussein Obama used it as well
> ...


A dead giveaway that the Right uses his middle name as a sign of disrespect is when confronted with the use of his middle name, the "Big Voice On The Right" denied using the name until AFTER Bob Kerrey used it on Dec 16, 2007 even though he himself beat Kerrey by over a year on Dec 13, 2006 and he wasn't the first Right winger to do so in 2006! 

If the Right only use it out of "respect" why would they deny using it until after the Left first used it??????? Actions speak louder than words!

March 3, 2008
RUSH:  *Who was it that first used Obama's middle name of Hussein? It was not us.* It was Bob Kerrey, over and over again, former Democrat senator of Nebraska.

*12/16/2007*
KERREY: I like the fact that his name is Barack Hussein Obama,

Stop the Tape: Sexy Rock Star Obama Whines About His Ears
*Dec 13, 2006* 
RUSH:    (interruption) Snerdley is convinced that Maureen wants Barack Hussein Obama.
(sigh) I don't even want to go there.

    * On *November 27, 2006*,  MSNBC host Tucker Carlson referred to radio host Bill Press as "a true member of the Barack Hussein Obama fan club."

    * During the *November 28, 2006*, edition of MSNBC's Hardball, Republican strategist Ed Rogers referred to "Barack Hussein Obama." 

    * On the *December 5, 2006*, edition of Fox News' Special Report with Brit Hume, senior political correspondent Carl Cameron told viewers: "Though he's written two books about himself already, most people know very little about Barack Hussein Obama Junior's uncommonly privileged life." 

    * On the *December 14, 2006*, broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio program, Rush Limbaugh gave Obama a "nickname" -- "Barack Hussein Odumbo" (in reference to Obama's "big ears").







    * On the *December 14, 2006*, edition of Hardball, NBC's Mike Viqueira announced "a man named Barack Obama, whose middle name, incidentally, is Hussein, running for president."


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 31, 2012)

Sallow said:


> -Killing Osama Bin Laden. Bush got the master mind of 9/11 and all key people who were behind the attack
> -Passing the Lilly Ledbetter Act.
> -Passing the ACA.  Created a new tax and against the will of the people
> -Saving the Financial Industry. allowed CEO's to keep their bonuses
> ...



*Not Allowed Here.*


----------



## BDBoop (Jul 31, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > -Killing Osama Bin Laden. Bush got the master mind of 9/11 and all key people who were behind the attack
> ...



Then refute.


----------



## mal (Jul 31, 2012)

Interpol said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > -Killing Osama Bin Laden.
> ...



It's a list of a Continuation of Bush II Policies. 

And a LOT of it ain't True.

My Favorite of Sallow's List is "Serious about Paying Down the Debt"...

I almost Cried I Laughed so hard.

That's Blind Faith in the Face of Reality right there. 



peace...


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 31, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...


Read the red part.


----------



## BDBoop (Jul 31, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Oh, got it. So you were just saying *Not Allowed Here.*  apropos of nothing.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 31, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...



No the *Not Allowed Here.*  was for Stabilized Afghanistan I couldn't put it with the quote part because the board want allow it.
But all in all hius post was *Not Allowed Here.*


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## mal (Jul 31, 2012)

KSM was the Mastermind behind 9/11...

KSM and Iraqi Ramzi Yousef Attacked the Trade Center in 1993 Killing Americans on American Soil in a Terrorist Attack that Clinton Pursued as a "Crime"...

Clinton FAILED to get the Future Mastermind behind 9/11 for the duration of his 8 years in Office...

KSM finally finished the job 2 years AFTER Clinton was Warned that al Qaeda wanted to use Airliners as Missiles Against Targets such as the Pentagon...

Not a PDB that said "bin Laden Determined to Strike" something that was Obvious from 1996 on after bin Laden Declared War on us...

No, a DETAILED Report that named the Pentagon as a Target of a Hijacked Airliner...

That sounds Familiar doesn't it?...

Bush "got" the Mastermind behind 9/11... Quickly.

Obama used the System Bush put into place, including the Seal Team and the Patriot Act, to take bin Laden out once found.

Obama did nothing Special to "find" bin Laden he simply gave the order once it was Established that bin Laden wasn't in Afghanistan like all of the Dishonest Liberals Insisted he was for the duration of Bush's Presidency as a Excuse to Attack Bush on Iraq...

Nope, he was in Pakistan.

Anyway, History is what it is and bin Laden denied Involvement in 9/11 after the Attack...

Something that Terrorists NEVER do.

And in FACT KSM, NOT bin Laden was the Mastermind of 9/11...

Get it yet people?



peace...


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## JakeStarkey (Jul 31, 2012)

Those who protest they don't have  a problem with the pres's middle name, of course, protest too much.  And, I believe, many of them are acting childishly in their denials about the little game they are playing.

I will vote for Romney, but that we of the right waste our time on silly games is not amusing.  It's a waste of time.


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## koshergrl (Jul 31, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



You don't refute *Not Allowed Here.*


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 31, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



It was whether easy if you ask me.


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## Trajan (Jul 31, 2012)

Dr Grump said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > Barack Hussein Obama used it as well
> ...



I think some have gotten ratholed into the thread title and missed the OP......


maybe we can discuss something of real substance. 

like the 1.5% gdp rate for last Q and the downgrade to under 1.5 for the year? Year 3.3 of Barack Hussein Obamas  term? 

any thoughts on that ?


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## Trajan (Jul 31, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



No you!!!!!


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## koshergrl (Jul 31, 2012)

No kidding.


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## Foxfyre (Jul 31, 2012)

Yes, I agree that the thread took a serious derail there or at least an unrelated siderail.  Discussing the pros and cons of Osama bin Laden or KSM is relevant to an evaluation of the President only to the extent of whether he should have given such orders and/or whether he takes credit for what he himself did not do.   The details of either operation are more appropriate in their own thread.

But back to Osama Hussein Obama.  Every president in this modern era has to make some decisions re judicious use of the military.  And yes, there is room for more than one point of view whether it is appropriate to give the order to invade another sovereign country for the purpose of assassinating somebody or whether it is appropriate to use unmanned drones to target somebody or whether we should send air cover to Lybia without Congressional approval, etc. etc. etc.  Whether a President as Commamder in Chief is competent in judicious use of the military is fair game in his evaluation.

And so far, while I have not agreed with Obama on everything in that category, I can't see that he has done anything more egregious or controversial than most presidents in modern times.  Has he been honest about everything he has ordered or done?  No, I don't think so.  But does he deserve an "F" as Commander in Chief?  I don't see that either.

Now on the economy, I will give him a HUGE F minus minus minus.  I can't think of anything he has done so far that has been beneficial to pull us out of the interminable economic slump we are in, and I see a whole lot of thngs he has done to prolong it and/or make it much worse than it had to be.


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## Trajan (Jul 31, 2012)

> And so far, while I have not agreed with Obama on everything in that category, I can't see that he has done anything more egregious or controversial than most presidents in modern times. Has he been honest about everything he has ordered or done? No, I don't think so. But does he deserve an "F" as Commander in Chief? I don't see that either.
> 
> Now on the economy, I will give him a HUGE F minus minus minus. I can't think of anything he has done so far that has been beneficial to pull us out of the interminable economic slump we are in, and I see a whole lot of thngs he has done to prolong it and/or make it much worse than it had to be.




well said FF, thank you for taking the time to craft a coherent, reasoned,  topical post....


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## Borillar (Jul 31, 2012)

Buford said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Infidel, you are wrong.  We have a lot of racism in the GOP, particularly in my area of the South.
> ...



Willie Horton ring a bell?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 31, 2012)

Buford said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Infidel, you are wrong.  We have a lot of racism in the GOP, particularly in my area of the South.
> ...



LBJ "I'll have those n*ggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years."

These Negroes, theyre getting pretty uppity these days and thats a problem for us since theyve got something now they never had before, the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now weve got to do something about this, weve got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference. For if we dont move at all, then their allies will line up against us and therell be no way of stopping them, well lose the filibuster and therell be no way of putting a brake on all sorts of wild legislation. Itll be Reconstruction all over again.
Lyndon B. Johnson


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## Borillar (Jul 31, 2012)

Rottweiler said:


> Why are some listing the "killing of terrorists" as an "accomplishment"? A few points in the flaws of this logic:
> 
> 
> When George W. Bush did this, he was bashed
> ...



Bush was bashed because he didn't go after Bin Laden.

If stopping terrorists is a bare minimum expectation, then GW Bush is the biggest failure in history.

Of course Obama didn't pull the trigger himself. You can minimize Obama's involvement in getting Bin Laden, but the fact remains that Bush didn't get him in 8 years. Obama got him in 2.


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## JakeStarkey (Jul 31, 2012)

I have no doubt both parties use race.

Shoot, Strom Thurmond used it when a Dem and used when a Pub.

*We Don't Judge Here. Not Allowed.*



bigrebnc1775 said:


> Buford said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...


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## JakeStarkey (Jul 31, 2012)

Shoot, *Edited. We don't Judge Here. *  Cuteness!



bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > I have no doubt both parties use race.
> ...


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## Liability (Jul 31, 2012)

I am seeing instances of a violation of the rules here.  I think.

Now back ON topic:

President Obama is a fail not because of his middle name.

And he certainly isn't a fail on the basis of authorizing the strike against Osama bin Laden.  It was a good call.

President Obama is a fail based on his own metric.  The unemployment rate has never gotten down to as "low" as 8% in his entire tenure in Office.  He once said that if he couldn't do better than that in 3 years, he would not be getting re-elected.

I think he may have finally been right about something concerning the People.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 31, 2012)

Liability said:


> I am seeing instances of a violation of the rules here.  I think.
> 
> Now back ON topic:
> 
> ...



Yes I did violate the rule of the new board sorry about that.


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## Liability (Jul 31, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > I am seeing instances of a violation of the rules here.  I think.
> ...



On the very first day of this social experiment, I violated da rulez, too.  I went back (a suggestion I had gotten) and edited.  I am not known for maturity, but there's no harm, I figure, in TRYING to draw within the lines.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 31, 2012)

Liability said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...



Well I'm not going to edit what I said after posting it. It's dishonest.


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## Liability (Jul 31, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Nah.  That's silly.

If (as an example) I had suggested that somebody was brain dead, there is no dishonesty in deleting the _ad hominem_ nonsense in THIS particular "zone."


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## JakeStarkey (Jul 31, 2012)

Doggone it, if you guys are gonna act mature, then I will as well, too.

Where I was wrong to you  in this thread, my apologies.


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## Liability (Jul 31, 2012)

More on Topic (to support what I said earlier about the President):

"You know, a year from now, I think people are going to see that we're starting to make some progress but there is still going to be some pain out there. *If I don't have this done in three years, then there's going to be a one-term proposition.*"  -- Barack Hussein Obama in 2009.


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## edthecynic (Jul 31, 2012)

Liability said:


> More on Topic (to support what I said earlier about the President):
> 
> "You know, a year from now, I think people are going to see that we're starting to make some progress but there is still going to be some pain out there. *If I don't have this done in three years, then there's going to be a one-term proposition.*"  -- Barack Hussein Obama in 2009.


Of course, the optimist that he is, he underestimated the GOP's disregard of the American people in their determined obstructionism. He foolishly expected the GOP to put country over Party when he made that statement.


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## JakeStarkey (Jul 31, 2012)

Regardless, Ed, it will be one term, but the far right of the GOP are going to be in for a heck of a surprise when Romney treats them as they deserve to be treated: scantily and less.


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## P@triot (Aug 4, 2012)

I've noticed that his supporters do nothing but list perceived soft skills (he's nice, he's patient, he's intelligent, etc.).

The only thing that truly matters are the results. And here are the FACTS with regards to the results from his policies and the results from conservative policy:

*The first 3 years under Barack Obama (inheriting a mediocre economy):*

1.) Added more to the national debt than all US Presidents in history _combined_ during the same period

2.) Unemployment skyrocketed - the longest period of +8% unemployment sans the Great Depression.

3.) Energy prices skyrocketed - gas prices nearly tripled from the time he took office

4.) Erosion of freedoms - federal government now mandates that every citizen must engage in commerce with regards to health insurance

*The first 3 years under Ronald Reagan (inheriting the second worse economy in US history):*

1.) Grew the economy at a rate of 6%

2.) Unemployment was dropping like a rock from the double-digits experienced under Jimmy Carter. The US was creating 600,000 jobs per month

3.) Dropped inflation from 13.5% in 1980 to 5.1% in 1982

By the end of the Reagan Administration, the US had created over 20 million new jobs; expeirenced economic growth for 25 years like the nation had not seen in a century; and *produced one of the lowest unemployment rates in modern U.S. history (unemployment hit a 14 year low in June of 1988). As Reagan left office, the nation was experiencing its sixth consecutive year of economic prosperity.


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## edthecynic (Aug 5, 2012)

Rottweiler said:


> I've noticed that his supporters do nothing but list perceived soft skills (he's nice, he's patient, he's intelligent, etc.).
> 
> The only thing that truly matters are the results. And here are the FACTS with regards to the results from his policies and the results from conservative policy:
> 
> ...


CON$ervoFascists know that all of that is a complete lie, but lying is the Holy Eucharist of CON$ervoFascism.

I highlighted some of the most obvious.
Obama inherited the worst economy since the Reagan Recession which at the time was the worst recession since the Great Depression. Reagan CREATED the second worst recession, he didn't inherit it. 
There was never a time during the Carter administration when unemployment was double digits. The highest it ever reached was 7.8%. Reagan on the other hand jacked UE up to 10.8% by the end of his second year. And that was the U-3 rate which CON$ tell us is much less that the real rate. CON$ say the real rate is more than double the U-3 rate which would probably make Reagan's real rate around 25%.
Reagan did not create 20 million new jobs, the most he created was 15 million as opposed to Clinton's 25 million.
Economic growth ended with the Bush I recession, hardly 25 years.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Aug 5, 2012)

How did obama inherit the economy when he was a member of the democratic controlled Senate when the economy crashed? That's like a home owner doing his own plumbing and not knowing what he's doing and does damage to his plumbing and blames the plumber that came to fix his mess.


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## edthecynic (Aug 5, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> How did obama inherit the economy when he was a member of the democratic controlled Senate when the economy crashed? That's like a home owner doing his own plumbing and not knowing what he's doing and does damage to his plumbing and blames the plumber that came to fix his mess.


Sorry, I keep forgetting that Bush was the president who wasn't president and a first year junior Senator was infinitely more powerful. :cockoo:

BTW, does that apply to St Ronnie also? Did the Dems win the Cold War, create 15 million jobs, etc.?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Aug 5, 2012)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > How did obama inherit the economy when he was a member of the democratic controlled Senate when the economy crashed? That's like a home owner doing his own plumbing and not knowing what he's doing and does damage to his plumbing and blames the plumber that came to fix his mess.
> ...



One more time how did obama inherit anything? He was part of the problem


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## edthecynic (Aug 5, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


One more time BUSH was president.


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## Rozman (Aug 5, 2012)

Zander said:


> He's overseen the largest increase in debt in the history of the world.



Heh ehh heh ...If Obama gets a second term can you picture him
going off teleprompter and he starts bitchin about the mess he inherited 
from the prior administration.He has given that speech so often he just
stays with it.

Finally his suck up boot licking adviser Valerie Jarrett gets his attention and he
just stares off into space...and his staff has to get Michelle to take him back to the 
residence.


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## midcan5 (Aug 5, 2012)

Not sure this thread qualifies for the Clean room as the immediate assumption is biased.

President Obama has attempted and in many ways changed America internally and externally, the nation after our last president was looked at as the 'Honey Boo Boo' nation. Remember the headlines in the British papers. One can argue, if they were fair, but results demonstration they were right. If I were to consider one thing that has had immediate help it is his Court appointees, the opposition wants control of government, and controlling law controls the nation and its people. 

"The probability, then, is that the next election will be close. It could also be fateful. Not because it is apt to enable the kind of electoral transformation the country urgently needs. But the Republican Party already has a majority on the Supreme Court, which increasingly attacks the rights of workers and consumers. If it captures the White House and both houses of Congress it will pass Draconian measures and deploy repressive tactics to stifle public dissent. All in the name of freedom. What to do?"  William E. Connolly  See The Contemporary Condition: The Republican Pincer Machine


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## JakeStarkey (Aug 5, 2012)

Several quick contradictions concerning Rottweiler's posts underlines his mistaken material when put into content: 10.8% unemployment in RR's 34th month in office, raised taxes three times, raised the debt ceiling sixteen times, lied about Iran-Contra.


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## JakeStarkey (Aug 5, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> One more time how did obama inherit anything? He was part of the problem


  Bush was president, not Obama.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Aug 5, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > One more time how did obama inherit anything? He was part of the problem
> ...



obama was a senator in the Democratic controlled congress.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Aug 5, 2012)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



And? Who controls spending and legislation?


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## Liability (Aug 5, 2012)

edthecynic said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > More on Topic (to support what I said earlier about the President):
> ...



It's so adorable and completely predictable that you looney loopey lefties are still going to refuse to accept that The ONE bears responsibility.


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## edthecynic (Aug 5, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


The president who signs the bills sent to his desk. Congress can only be responsible if it passes the bill over the president's veto. No veto, the president owns it, that's the rule CON$ have been using to credit Reagan economically for everything the Dems "controlled" in the 1980s.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Aug 5, 2012)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



The president can only spend what congress allows.


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## JakeStarkey (Aug 5, 2012)

Bush signed the bill.  He owns it.


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## Foxfyre (Aug 5, 2012)

Reminder that this thread is in the CDZ folks.

Reagan inherited double digit inflation, double digit interest rates, high gasoline prices, and a very high misery index when he took office.  And in an effort to get things under control, he went along with the Democratic Congress's push to raise taxes in return for a promise of three dollars of spending cuts for every dollar in new taxes.

We got the taxes.  We didn't get the promised spending cuts.  And the unemployment rate continued to rise to 9.5% in Reagans, second and third years.  So he went over the head of Congress to the people who supported him in getting tax reform--reduction of tax rates--that brought the recession to an end and prompted a strong economic surge.  Unemployment was back down to just over 7% in 1984.  He carried every state but Mondale's Minnesota in that election and almost won that.

Throughout his second term, unemployement continued to fall to 5.4% when he left office and he handed George H.W. Bush a strong economy but unacceptable (for that time) deficits.  Unfortunately President Bush 41 tried to deal with the deficits in the same way Reagan did--by raising taxes in return for promised spending cuts.  Again we got the taxes without the cuts.  The economy  faltered, unemployement was increasing sharply, and it cost Bush that election.

Clinton raised taxes in his first two years with poor results, but when the GOP reformers took over Congress in 1994, the tax rates were again brought down, the economy soared (with some help from the dot.com bubble) and unemployment came down.  They also managed to balance the budget for the first time in a very long time.

George W. Bush early on had to deal with 9/11 and later on Katrina, plus the costs of two wars; however his tax reforms put the economy on an even keel and we did well until the housing bubble crash of 2008.

I can't find a single thing in Obama's resume for the past four years that has made anything better, and he seems to be hell bent on policy that will make things worse.  On purpose?  There is a great deal of speculation about that, but whatever the motives may or may not be, I don't want another four years of making things worse.


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## edthecynic (Aug 5, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Reminder that this thread is in the CDZ folks.
> 
> Reagan inherited double digit inflation, double digit interest rates, high gasoline prices, and a very high misery index when he took office.  And *in an effort to get things under control, he went along with the Democratic Congress's push to raise taxes in return for a promise of three dollars of spending cuts for every dollar in new taxes.
> 
> ...


Talk about revisionist history!!!!!

St Ronnie CUT taxes his FIRST year and unemployment soared from 7.6% to 10.8% by the end of his second year. Reagan then RAISED taxes, the largest peacetime tax increase in history, and the economy recovered.  And it was Reagan who welshed on the spending cuts because he would not go along with cuts to his Star Wars boondoggle!!! If you remember Senator Dole gave him hell when he would not support the deal he had worked out with Tip O'Neill.

And Clinton's tax reforms, which raised taxes on the rich and cut them on the middle class, are what got the economy moving again. The GOP had nothing to do with it as not a single one voted for it. After it succeeded the GOP then tried to take credit for it, at least until the tech bubble burst and then suddenly it was Clinton's economy again.


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## Foxfyre (Aug 5, 2012)

Yes, there was a tax cut in 1981 followed by a series of tax increases throughout Reagan's tenure.  I believe the unemployment rate did not exceed 9.5% (both in 82 and 83) however.  And had dropped to something over 7% by 1984 and we had close to full employment when he left office.  (With 5% considered essentially full employment at that time.)



> Soon after taking office in 1981, Reagan signed into law one of the largest tax cuts in the postwar period.
> 
> That legislation -- phased in over three years -- pushed through a 23% across-the-board cut of individual income tax rates. It also called for tax brackets, the standard deduction and personal exemptions to be adjusted for inflation starting in 1984. That would reduce "bracket creep" since the high inflation of the 1970s and early 1980s meant incomes rose very fast, pushing taxpayers into ever higher brackets even though the real value of their income hadn't changed.
> 
> ...



The tax increases were to deal with deficits resulting from massive spending, mostly to rebuild the military that Carter had so decimated to the point it was almost gutted.  Reagan rebuilt our defense capabilities, increased military pay and veteran's benefits, and made us again so powerful that the U.S.S.R. could not keep pace and bankrupted itself trying.

The fact remains that Reagan was able to create a positive spirit in America again and that is why he carried 49 of 50 states in 1984.  And if you look at the maps that included almost all the counties in all those states too.  He carried 58.8% of the vote to Mondale's 40.6%.
And he did it with one simple line:  "Are you better off than you were four years ago?"

Do you think Barack Obama would dare use that line this year?


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## edthecynic (Aug 5, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Yes, there was a tax cut in 1981 followed by a series of tax increases throughout Reagan's tenure.*  I believe the unemployment rate did not exceed 9.5%* (both in 82 and 83) however.  And had dropped to something over 7% by 1984 and we had close to full employment when he left office.  (With 5% considered essentially full employment at that time.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There it is, the Right chooses to "believe" their disinformation even after they were told the truth!!! St Ronnie's unemployment peaked at 10.8% in both November and December of 1982.

Carter decimated nothing in the military and Reagan ran up the generational debt on boondoggles like Star Wars, not rebuilding the already most powerful in the world American military. The USSR was collapsing from within independent of Reagan and would have fallen without Reagan bankrupting this country. Reagan turned America from a creditor nation into a permanent debtor nation.


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## JakeStarkey (Aug 5, 2012)

Reagan's unemployment numbers (I believe late 1983) was at 10.8%

What happened in his second term does matter for comparison to Obama in his first term


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## bigrebnc1775 (Aug 5, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Reagan's unemployment numbers (I believe late 1983) was at 10.8%
> 
> What happened in his second term does matter for comparison to Obama in his first term



Why does Reagan's second term have anything to do with obama, since obama has yet to make it out of his first term.
How about 4th years?


Reagans 4th Year in Office: 7.75 GDP Obamas 4th Year in Office: 2.2 GDP
The Death of Keynesian Economics&#8230; Reagan&#8217;s 4th Year in Office: 7.75 GDP&#8230; Obama&#8217;s 4th Year in Office: 2.2 GDP | The Gateway Pundit


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