# Under obamacare ER visits will be prohibited



## Katzndogz (Aug 23, 2012)

Under provisions of obamacare, if you get discharged from the hospital and have a complication, you won't get seen in an emergency room.  

More than 2,200 hospitals face penalties under ObamaCare rules | Fox News

A provision of ObamaCare is set to punish roughly two-thirds of U.S. hospitals starting this fall over high readmission rates, according to an analysis by Kaiser Health News.
Starting in October, Medicare will reduce reimbursements to hospitals with high 30-day readmission rates -- which refers to patients who return within a month -- by as much as 1 percent. The maximum penalty increases to 2 percent the following year and 3 percent in 2014. 
Doctors are concerned the penalty is unfair, since sometimes they have to accept patients more than once in a brief period of time but could be penalized for doing so -- even for accepting seniors who are sick. 
"Among patients with heart failure, hospitals that have higher readmission rates actually have lower mortality rates," said Sunil Kripalani, MD, a professor with Vanderbilt University Medical Center who studies hospital readmissions. "So, which would we rather have -- a hospital readmission or a death?"

obama's answer, he'd rather have a death.


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## AmyNation (Aug 23, 2012)

The hospitals deserve to be punished.


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## Katzndogz (Aug 23, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> The hospitals deserve to be punished.



Really punish them, close them all.


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## AmyNation (Aug 23, 2012)

Maybe you should do some independent research on reasons for high readmission rates.


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## Katzndogz (Aug 23, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Maybe you should do some independent research on reasons for high readmission rates.



Don't care.   

obama intends to force people who need emergency care to die in the streets, right at the ER door.   It's part of his rationing scheme.


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## driveby (Aug 23, 2012)

Death Panels.....


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## Caroljo (Aug 23, 2012)

Costs to get in the ER are so high now, i can imagine what they'll be when this takes effect....does anyone think the hospitals are going to not pass these costs on to the patient?  Most people wouldn't be able to even go to the ER anymore!  Except the ones that don't have to pay anyway, because we do it for them!


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## AmyNation (Aug 23, 2012)

Got it, youre a nut.

I will try to remember that least I waste my time responding to your future posts with anything more than laughter.


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## Katzndogz (Aug 23, 2012)

Caroljo said:


> Costs to get in the ER are so high now, i can imagine what they'll be when this takes effect....does anyone think the hospitals are going to not pass these costs on to the patient?  Most people wouldn't be able to even go to the ER anymore!  Except the ones that don't have to pay anyway, because we do it for them!



Not for illegals, they always get treated for free.

This provision doesn't address costs.  It punishes hospitals that readmit patients to an Emergency Room within 30 days.   Hospitals just won't admit patients who have been discharged within 30 days prior.  They will send them home to die.


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## Caroljo (Aug 23, 2012)

You don't think people arent going to die because of this?


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## AmyNation (Aug 23, 2012)

Caroljo said:


> You don't think people arent going to die because of this?



The intention of the law is for less people to die.


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## syrenn (Aug 23, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> The hospitals deserve to be punished.




I am more for punishing the people who abuse the hospitals and ER system. 


I am a paying customer....and am damn pissed that the obamacare leaches are going to fuck up my medical care...or punish my providers.


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## syrenn (Aug 23, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Caroljo said:
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> > You don't think people arent going to die because of this?
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The intention of the law is for more people to avail themselves of services they cannot pay for.


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## Caroljo (Aug 23, 2012)

Do you think the hospitals are not going to charge more for their services?  I don't think hospitals will turn you away, but the cost of going there are going to be astonomical, the penalties will come back to the patients, most people wouldn't be able to afford it so they'll stay home.  And possibly die......


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## Againsheila (Aug 23, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Under provisions of obamacare, if you get discharged from the hospital and have a complication, you won't get seen in an emergency room.
> 
> More than 2,200 hospitals face penalties under ObamaCare rules | Fox News
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Here's a novel idea, keep the patients until they are well.


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## AmyNation (Aug 23, 2012)

syrenn said:


> AmyNation said:
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How is that the intention of this law?


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## syrenn (Aug 23, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> Katzndogz said:
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> > Under provisions of obamacare, if you get discharged from the hospital and have a complication, you won't get seen in an emergency room.
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here is a novel idea...... if you cant pay for your hospital visit...don't complain about what you get for free....and or demand ....more.


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## syrenn (Aug 23, 2012)

AmyNation said:


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*knocks on your head* 


think about it....its not that hard to do.


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## AmyNation (Aug 23, 2012)

syrenn said:


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Penalizing hospitals with high readmission rates( which FYI, is usually do to infection and hospitals errors) is going to lead to more patients?

Or are you ranting about the ACA and not this specific provision?


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## syrenn (Aug 23, 2012)

AmyNation said:


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A hospital bed runs you at a minimum 1k a day.......so again.....The intention of the law is for more people to avail themselves of services they cannot pay for.


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## AmyNation (Aug 23, 2012)

syrenn said:


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The intention of the law is to punish hospitals for pushing patients out before they are ready.

Do you think it's cheaper to re-admit someone for an infection that could have been caught by the hospital had they not been released too soon?


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 23, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Got it, youre a nut.
> 
> I will try to remember that least I waste my time responding to your future posts with anything more than laughter.



The crazy person here is you. Obama care will punish hospitals for treating people that need emergency care. Meaning either the Hospitals charge the patients or they refuse to see them. Meaning they DIE.

Good to see you don't care about deaths because the Government wants to save money.


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## AmyNation (Aug 23, 2012)

RetiredGySgt said:


> AmyNation said:
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What?

There is no punishment for emergency care, there is a penality to hospitals who are above the average in re-admitting patients within 30 days of being discharged by that hospital.


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## OohPooPahDoo (Aug 23, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Under provisions of obamacare, if you get discharged from the hospital and have a complication, you won't get seen in an emergency room.



That's not what the law says.


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## syrenn (Aug 23, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> syrenn said:
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The intention of the law is to force hospitals one way or the other....keep them...or pay a fine.  The bottom line it is all about patients receiving care they cannot pay for. 

Remember....this is about obamacare.... and not about paying customers. I don't blame hospitals for moving out patients who cannot pay as soon as they can. Its a money loser for them.


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## AmyNation (Aug 23, 2012)

I bet this provision will be part of the new federal RomneyCare if he wins


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## syrenn (Aug 23, 2012)

On the flip side.... would hospitals be able to force you to stay against your will? Can they now lock up for 30 days and force treatment upon you to avoid....punishment? 



Interesting question don't you think?


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## syrenn (Aug 23, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> I bet this provision will be part of the new federal RomneyCare if he wins





and if it is.... HE is wrong too.


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## OohPooPahDoo (Aug 23, 2012)

syrenn said:


> On the flip side.... would hospitals be able to force you to stay against your will? Can they now lock up for 30 days and force treatment upon you to avoid....punishment?
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> Interesting question don't you think?



Sure, lets go ahead and say that's true. Doesn't really matter what the law actually says anyway, we just need to cook some shit up to make Obama look bad.


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## AmyNation (Aug 23, 2012)

syrenn said:


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I simply disagree.

I think it's a good thing. Most bounce backs are preventable, by either doing the proper follow up with patients or not early releasing those who aren't ready yet.


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## syrenn (Aug 23, 2012)

AmyNation said:


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And who is to say....they are ready? The patient or the doctor?  Ever think the  "preventible infections" you speak of are due to patients not taking their meds when they get home?  Should a hospital be responsible if a patient does not follow orders?


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## Greenbeard (Aug 23, 2012)

syrenn said:


> The intention of the law is to force hospitals one way or the other....keep them...or pay a fine.  The bottom line it is all about patients receiving care they cannot pay for.
> 
> Remember....this is about obamacare.... and not about paying customers. I don't blame hospitals for moving out patients who cannot pay as soon as they can. Its a money loser for them.



Medicare beneficiaries aren't "paying customers"? I'm not really even sure what point you're trying to make here.

You understand that the Readmissions Reduction Program is a Medicare initiative, right? Medicare (Part A), that program that pays some of your hospital bills after you pay payroll taxes for all of your working lifetime?


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## AmyNation (Aug 23, 2012)

syrenn said:


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We are not talking about all bounce backs. We are talking about hospitals who are over the national average, and stats say most bounce backs are preventable.


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## Againsheila (Aug 23, 2012)

syrenn said:


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So the poor should just die?


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## Rozman (Aug 23, 2012)

I have been hearing many stories of Doctors 
refusing to take on new Medicare patients because Obamacare
really cuts reimbursements.


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## Greenbeard (Aug 23, 2012)

Rozman said:


> I have been hearing many stories of Doctors
> refusing to take on new Medicare patients because Obamacare
> really cuts reimbursements.



Physician payments under Medicare are set by the Balanced Budget Act of 1997, not Obamacare.


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## Rozman (Aug 23, 2012)

I guess you are calling all these Doctors,and the rest liars....
I am just passing this along...I have been hearing this for some time now.
I am willing to take the word of these folks over Obama followers.


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## Greenbeard (Aug 23, 2012)

Rozman said:


> I guess you are calling all these Doctors,and the rest liars....



I prefer "idiots"; I hate to impugn motives.

Medicare Sustainable Growth Rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Nova78 (Aug 23, 2012)

*By all means vote for obama if you like seeing your Country going down the shitter....*


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## Politico (Aug 23, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Under obamacare ER visits will be prohibited



Bullshit.


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## jillian (Aug 23, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Under provisions of obamacare, if you get discharged from the hospital and have a complication, you won't get seen in an emergency room.
> 
> More than 2,200 hospitals face penalties under ObamaCare rules | Fox News
> 
> ...



you mean like the GOP "House" trying to pass a law to absolve hospitals of liability for letting women die by not giving them a life-saving abortion or even directing them to someplace where one would be performed? that kind of death?

or does it not count because it's only a woman?

thanks for playing.


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## geauxtohell (Aug 23, 2012)

While the merits of core control measures can be debated, the OP has missed the point and misconstrued the issue so badly, that it's just comical.


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## HUGGY (Aug 23, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Under provisions of obamacare, if you get discharged from the hospital and have a complication, you won't get seen in an emergency room.
> 
> More than 2,200 hospitals face penalties under ObamaCare rules | Fox News
> 
> ...



You really are one stupid bat shit crazy lying moron.  It does not say all ER's.  It says those with high return rates only will be penalized 1% the first year the 2% and so on.  It is supposed to encourage hospitals with ER's to give better treatment in the first place and not kick patients out too early.

It does not say ANYTHING about ER admitting.  Where does it say a hospital is free to reject patients? So they will start rejecting former recent hospital patients from returning through the ER to avoid paying 1% penalty on reimbursements if too many patients have to return do to inadequit care during their first visit?  Really?  THAT'S how you interpreted what you used as evidense for your rediculous thread title?  Really?

It must hurt for you to think.  Have you had an MRI to see if you have blockages in your skull?  Seriously..something ain't right in your noggin.


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## HUGGY (Aug 23, 2012)

syrenn said:


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Really?  You really think like that?  Where in the OP does it say that someone is getting hospital care for free?  The OP concerns a tiny reduction in reimbursements for hospitals with cronic poor outcomes resulting in the patient needing to return to the hospital through the ER..as in AN EMERGENCY!  Nothing in the OP has anything to do with indegent patients.  Under ObamaCare nobody is indegent.  

Your statement is stupid.   Not trying to be rude.  I thought you were smarter than that.  I mean I already knew the OP was an idiot.  You I had a much higher opinion of.


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## CrusaderFrank (Aug 24, 2012)

Killing off elderly patients is how Obamacare will reduces costs.

That's what happens when you let Eugenicists who talk about "untermenschen" run the US healthcare system


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## Katzndogz (Aug 24, 2012)

Greenbeard said:


> Rozman said:
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obamacare supercedes all prior acts.

The purpose is to prevent the sick and injured from getting care.  Just like cutting the payments to doctors is to prevent the sick and injured from getting care.


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## Againsheila (Aug 24, 2012)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Killing off elderly patients is how Obamacare will reduces costs.
> 
> That's what happens when you let Eugenicists who talk about "untermenschen" run the US healthcare system



I think we already have that.  Many of the elderly are encouraged to forgo chemo and radiation therapy.  And we have the nerve to criticize Canada's healthcare system.


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## Katzndogz (Aug 24, 2012)

Againsheila said:


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The elderly might be encouraged to forego treatment, under obamacare treatment will be prohibited.

When questioned whether or not an elderly woman should receive a pacemaker, obama said to just give her a pill instead.  Pacemakers is something the elderly would no longer get, particularly since it is a medical device that would also have enormous taxes attached.


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## oldernwiser (Aug 24, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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This topic never ceases to amaze me. Faux news babbles something about ACA dropping hospitals that care more for the dollar than they do for your health, and you right wingnuts come out in droves.

My mother died of breast cancer that was caught early enough that she could have been wearing a pink ribbon on a flat chest today. She died in a hospital right after she elected to stop treatment due to the COST OF TREATMENT AND HER LACK OF INSURANCE OR PERSONAL ASSETS. Pre-Obamacare = voluntary eugenics.

Don't let facts get in the way of your stupidly myopic view. And whatever you do, don't actually try to understand what the wingnut news tells you - and that goes for both sides. I'd post links to the actual text of ACA, but apparently you'd rather have Hannity eat it first so you don't have to chew.


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## hjmick (Aug 24, 2012)

AmyNation said:


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The road to Hell is paved with good intentions...


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## Katzndogz (Aug 24, 2012)

oldernwiser said:


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Dying from lack of treatment is somehow worse than dying because the hospital won't admit you.

My son's sister in law had breast cancer.   By the time they found it it had spread.  They had to crack open her ribs to get it.   The surgery was at City of Hope with follow up treatment at the Samuel Oschin Cancer Center at Cedars Sinai Hospital.    She has since had reconstructive surgery and is doing fine.  But then she went to charity hospitals.   No out of pocket.  Which is a good thing because she has five kids and is penniless.


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## OohPooPahDoo (Aug 24, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


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Had to rely on charity? Must not have been very personally responsible.


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## Greenbeard (Aug 24, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> obamacare supercedes all prior acts.



Not in this case it doesn't. To its discredit, the ACA does not attempt to fix the BBA's flawed methodology for reimbursing physician services under Medicare. Hence the continuing search for the elusive "permanent doc fix" that will replace the terms of the Balanced Budget Act.


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## Greenbeard (Aug 24, 2012)

In response to the OP:



> Many of the hospitals being penalized say they have already launched efforts to reduce their readmissions.
> 
> In Western Pennsylvania, an official at UPMCs McKeesport hospital told the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review that it has begun placing nurse practitioners in nursing homes where many of its elderly patients are discharged. Readmissions have dropped by 40 percent since the effort began 18 months ago, but Medicares penalty of 0.68 percent is based on its readmission rates for the three years ending in June 2011, so any improvements werent factored in to the penalty calculation.
> 
> In Southwest Florida, Lee Memorial Health System told the News-Press that it used electronic monitoring to keep taps on its sicker patients who had returned home. Patients also receive follow-up calls from staffers and even physician house calls to avoid them returning to the hospital. The hospital will receive a 0.11 percent penalty.



Oh no, they're killing old people!

Oh wait, no--they're getting better at caring for them.


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## oldernwiser (Aug 24, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


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A slight misdirection there... My mother "chose" her path because the hospital told her what the bill would be, what her responsibility was, and required her to show her financial responsibility before they did ANYTHING more than make her comfortable - as required under the EMTALA Act.

In essence, they had to admit her due to her pain. They were forced to treat that pain. But, no money, no living, no excuses, no IOUs. This would NOT have been the case under ACA.


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## CrusaderFrank (Aug 24, 2012)

"Back so soon, Untermenschen? What is it today? Short of breath? Here, read The Audacity of Hope. You'll understand true suffering"


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## oldernwiser (Aug 24, 2012)

Must be Tequila Night for CrusaderFrank too.


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## CrusaderFrank (Aug 24, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbpWonUzlrc]Obama Gaffe - YouTube[/ame]


Why Obama called in Bill Clinton instead of running on Obamacare


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## CrusaderFrank (Aug 24, 2012)

Obamacare: Paralegals handing out breathalyzers in all 57 states.

Yeah, that'll work


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## Noomi (Aug 24, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> Katzndogz said:
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> > Under provisions of obamacare, if you get discharged from the hospital and have a complication, you won't get seen in an emergency room.
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Unheard of! And stop being so logical. You are confusing the conservatives!


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## Katzndogz (Aug 25, 2012)

When someone has a heart attack and is discharged, then 28 days later has another, the hospital can just tell him "We made a mistake in discharging you too early, but we can't readmit you so go home, take an aspirin and hope for the best."


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## CrusaderFrank (Aug 25, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> When someone has a heart attack and is discharged, then 28 days later has another, the hospital can just tell him "We made a mistake in discharging you too early, but we can't readmit you so go home, take an aspirin and hope for the best."



They can always call a paralegal


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## Katzndogz (Aug 25, 2012)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Katzndogz said:
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> > When someone has a heart attack and is discharged, then 28 days later has another, the hospital can just tell him "We made a mistake in discharging you too early, but we can't readmit you so go home, take an aspirin and hope for the best."
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Who will give them a breathalyzer.


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## CrusaderFrank (Aug 25, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


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You get the exact sane treatment across all 57 states


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## HUGGY (Aug 25, 2012)

Ratz and KrustyFrank...  A liar and a certifiably crazy person.  They need each other.  

Until they need health care...then they need to zip it so they don't get put away in the rubber room with the protective helmet on.


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## Katzndogz (Aug 25, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> Ratz and KrustyFrank...  A liar and a certifiably crazy person.  They need each other.
> 
> Until they need health care...then they need to zip it so they don't get put away in the rubber room with the protective helmet on.



It depends on when you need the health care.  If its twice in 30 days, you won't get it.  Or, you will get some pretty massive fraud.  Someone who has a subsequent heart attack will still be admitted, but it will be called stomach pain, or a broken leg.


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## CrusaderFrank (Aug 25, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> HUGGY said:
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Huggies like to fantasize about mass murder, once he's committed he'll be there for the long haul


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## rdean (Aug 25, 2012)

katzndogz said:


> under provisions of obamacare, if you get discharged from the hospital and have a complication, you won't get seen in an emergency room.
> 
> more than 2,200 hospitals face penalties under obamacare rules | fox news
> 
> ...



how can you say something so fucking stupid???????????????????????


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## gallantwarrior (Aug 25, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> syrenn said:
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No, we don't.  Obama makes himself look bad enough every time he 'evolves'.


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## rdean (Aug 25, 2012)

gallantwarrior said:


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Right wingers don't believe in "evolution".


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## HUGGY (Aug 25, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Under provisions of obamacare, if you get discharged from the hospital and have a complication, you won't get seen in an emergency room.
> 
> More than 2,200 hospitals face penalties under ObamaCare rules | Fox News
> 
> ...



Under ObamaCare you will still be just as stupid as you were before it's implementation and just as much of a lying sack of liquid shit.

True Story.


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## OohPooPahDoo (Aug 25, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> When someone has a heart attack and is discharged, then 28 days later has another, the hospital can just tell him "We made a mistake in discharging you too early, but we can't readmit you so go home, take an aspirin and hope for the best."



They can readmit him.


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## Katzndogz (Aug 25, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Katzndogz said:
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The hospital will be fined if they do.

So they will lie.


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## OohPooPahDoo (Aug 25, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


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Then they will be liable for medical malpractice.


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## Katzndogz (Aug 25, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


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That's not malpractice.  It is medicare fraud which we should be used to by now since the government pays so little for care, medical providers have to make it up in fraud.


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## OohPooPahDoo (Aug 25, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


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Sending someone home who is in need of emergency services is medical malpractice and may be against the law.


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## Katzndogz (Aug 25, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


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So, they will simply lie.  They won't send someone home knowing the person will die.  They won't admit someone under circumstances that will result in a massive fine.  They will lie.  They won't say someone had a subsequent stroke, it will be headaches.   Chest pain for a prior heart attack victim will be stomach pain.  

The government has already created the necessity for a massive fraud by refusing to pay for tests that were given, until the bill is padded with tests that were never given.   Medicare reimbursement for an MRI might be $12.00.  So the hospital charges for an MRI, CT scan, and anything else they can throw in there.   Now you see reports that medicare fraud is in the billions of dollars.  Sure.  They have to.  There's no choice.  The government starts out being unfair, now they will get even more unfair resulting in yet more fraud.


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## daveman (Aug 25, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Caroljo said:
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But the reality is far different.

But, hey, the intention is all that matters, right?


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## daveman (Aug 25, 2012)

Caroljo said:


> You don't think people arent going to die because of this?


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## daveman (Aug 25, 2012)

AmyNation said:


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So, we have _more_ people with coverage, and you want to keep them in the hospital _longer_.

Do you want a private hallway, or a semi-private?


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## daveman (Aug 25, 2012)

syrenn said:


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Pffft.  Don't you know that bureaucrats know more about healthcare than medical professionals?


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## daveman (Aug 25, 2012)

jillian said:


> Katzndogz said:
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How many people will that affect?


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## daveman (Aug 25, 2012)

oldernwiser said:


> This topic never ceases to amaze me. Faux news babbles something about ACA dropping hospitals that care more for the dollar than they do for your health, and you right wingnuts come out in droves.


Yes, healthcare should be free, because doctors, nurses, lab techs, and all healthcare professionals don't work for money, and hospital buildings and equipment don't cost anything.


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## Katzndogz (Aug 25, 2012)

How many women have died because they didn't have a lifesaving abortion?   Suppose we give abortions to all women who will die if they don't have an abortion and prohibit women who want an abortion so they can go on vacation and fit in a bikini.


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## Katzndogz (Aug 25, 2012)

daveman said:


> oldernwiser said:
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> > This topic never ceases to amaze me. Faux news babbles something about ACA dropping hospitals that care more for the dollar than they do for your health, and you right wingnuts come out in droves.
> ...



If doctors and nurses really cared, they wouldn't charge in the first place.   The obamatax on medical devices will ensure that they aren't available anyway.


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## daveman (Aug 25, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> How many women have died because they didn't have a lifesaving abortion?   Suppose we give abortions to all women who will die if they don't have an abortion and prohibit women who want an abortion so they can go on vacation and fit in a bikini.


Having to miss cosmetology school because you have a bastard to raise because you couldn't be bothered to keep from getting pregnant is apparently a life-ending event.


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## daveman (Aug 25, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > oldernwiser said:
> ...


Doctors and nurses gotta buy groceries too.  And Kroger doesn't accept a smug feeling as payment for a cart full of food.


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## rightwinger (Aug 25, 2012)

Amazing how stupid rightwing propaganda can be

Right up there with Death Panels


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## auditor0007 (Aug 26, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe you should do some independent research on reasons for high readmission rates.
> ...



The premise of your argument is stupid to say the least.  This has nothing to do with rationing care.  If you think it does, than you are a dope.


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## auditor0007 (Aug 26, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Amazing how stupid rightwing propaganda can be
> 
> Right up there with Death Panels



Some of the stupid stuff these people come up with is just amazing.  I thought they all had private educations, so they were smarter than that.  I guess those private educations didn't pay off after all.


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## OohPooPahDoo (Aug 26, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



Not admitting someone to emergency treatment to avoid paying a fine to their insurance company is medical malpractice. Lying about someone's medical condition to avoid paying a fine to their insurance company is criminal insurance fraud. 




> The government has already created the necessity for a massive fraud by refusing to pay for tests that were given, until the bill is padded with tests that were never given.   Medicare reimbursement for an MRI might be $12.00.



It might be? I'm sorry, am I supposed to be engaged in an argument in which the facts are taken to be whatever you, my opponent, thinks they "might" be?

EDIT: It isn't $12.00. It took me all of 60 seconds to use something called the _internet_ to find out you're wrong by a factor of around 30 or so. But hey, why don't we just keep going with your made up facts? I'd hate to have to impose the burden of reality on you.




> So the hospital charges for an MRI, CT scan, and anything else they can throw in there.   Now you see reports that medicare fraud is in the billions of dollars.  Sure.  They have to.  There's no choice.  The government starts out being unfair, now they will get even more unfair resulting in yet more fraud.



No one is forcing any hospital to accept Medicare. If you don't like the deal a patient's insurance company offers you, stop accepting that insurance.


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## LilOlLady (Aug 26, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Under provisions of obamacare, if you get discharged from the hospital and have a complication, you won't get seen in an emergency room.
> 
> More than 2,200 hospitals face penalties under ObamaCare rules | Fox News
> 
> ...



It is inconceivable that anyone can be so incredible stupid.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Aug 28, 2012)

LilOlLady said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > Under provisions of obamacare, if you get discharged from the hospital and have a complication, you won't get seen in an emergency room.
> ...



1) its "incredibly" stupid, stupid!!

2) his point is well taken. Think of the USSR. When the government runs an industry rather than  the laws of supply and demand you have huge waiting lines and shortages. This is our future with Barry the socialist in charge


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## geauxtohell (Aug 28, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> When someone has a heart attack and is discharged, then 28 days later has another, the hospital can just tell him "We made a mistake in discharging you too early, but we can't readmit you so go home, take an aspirin and hope for the best."



If a person has a heart attack, and is admitted, and has another heart attack 28 days later (assuming they got a stint); someone fucked up - and it could be the patient if they didn't take their plavix.

I'll spare you the details


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## Polk (Aug 28, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe you should do some independent research on reasons for high readmission rates.
> ...



Except that's not even remotely what the article states.


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## Polk (Aug 28, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Caroljo said:
> 
> 
> > Costs to get in the ER are so high now, i can imagine what they'll be when this takes effect....does anyone think the hospitals are going to not pass these costs on to the patient?  Most people wouldn't be able to even go to the ER anymore!  Except the ones that don't have to pay anyway, because we do it for them!
> ...



1. It does address costs because it gives hospitals incentives to improve practices so that they don't have high readmission rates.
2. Hospitals aren't going to turn patients away because of it. Having your payment rate fall is nothing compared to the liability from turning away patients.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Aug 30, 2012)

Polk said:


> 1. It does address costs because it gives hospitals incentives to improve practices so that they don't have high readmission rates.



dear, under capitalism the incentive is to beat the competition or go bankrupt and that is often barely enough!!

see why we are 100% positive a liberal will be slow, so very very slow. Have you no shame?


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## HUGGY (Aug 31, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



Except for the teensy weensie problem in the S and D theory ...that there is no supply problem.  We have plenty of hospitals and clinics and lots of doctors and nurses.  People are not being turned away now...what makes any of you think that all of a sudden people will be turned away as we absorb Obamacare?

Fear monger much?


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Sep 1, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > LilOlLady said:
> ...



1) 85% of MD's say they are thinking of leaving the profession

2) fewer will go into the profession as the baby boom retires because Barry care will drastically cut their wages and dictate  what they do.

3) Barry just put 35 million on Medicaid

4) all 45 million without insurance will soon have it!!!


See why we are 100% certain a liberal will be slow, oh so very very slow!!!


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## geauxtohell (Sep 1, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> 1) 85% of MD's say they are thinking of leaving the profession



Wrong.


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## AmyNation (Sep 1, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


I call bullshit on #1 and #2

Although I agree we are short on doctors, I disagree with the nonsense claim it's because of Obama. We've had a doctor shortage that has been getting worse for awhile now, however I don't think the solution is to limit medical care to those who can afford it.


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## geauxtohell (Sep 1, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



It takes at least four years to make a doctor.

Do the math.


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## Moonglow (Sep 1, 2012)

Well I go to the VA and there has been no memo on this at all, so, I doubt the story relates to the real case scenario. mainly, it's a Fox news story.


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## AmyNation (Sep 1, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...



It takes far more than 4 years to make a doctor. We had a shortage 4 years ago, and for years before that, and even without the ACA we would still have a serious shortage.


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## KLCB (Sep 1, 2012)

I am a geriatric nurse and social worker of over 20 years in Ohio. I have already seen the disaster taking place from this bill.The hospitals are already getting set for October 1st. I had a patient this week who was refused care because he was hospitalized the previous week. His family even took their attorney to the hospital with them to try and get him cared for--but the hospital still sent him home. We took him the next day to another hospital. They admitted him and found he had suffered a stroke. Believe me, the hospitals are not going to be the main ones to suffer over this bill-- it will be sick people that will suffer! How may of you have actually read this bill? I have read it and there are many problems!! Oh and by the way, I am a Democrat and have been since I registered years ago but the people I care for come before politics!


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## HUGGY (Sep 1, 2012)

Let's hire witch doctors!

Sarah Palin did!   So can we!


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## AmyNation (Sep 1, 2012)

KLCB said:


> I am a geriatric nurse and social worker of over 20 years in Ohio. I have already seen the disaster taking place from this bill.The hospitals are already getting set for October 1st. I had a patient this week who was refused care because he was hospitalized the previous week. His family even took their attorney to the hospital with them to try and get him cared for--but the hospital still sent him home. We took him the next day to another hospital. They admitted him and found he had suffered a stroke. Believe me, the hospitals are not going to be the main ones to suffer over this bill-- it will be sick people that will suffer! How may of you have actually read this bill? I have read it and there are many problems!! Oh and by the way, I am a Democrat and have been since I registered years ago but the people I care for come before politics!



Are you planning to testify at the trial where he sues the hospital for malpractice?


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## daveman (Sep 1, 2012)

KLCB said:


> I am a geriatric nurse and social worker of over 20 years in Ohio. I have already seen the disaster taking place from this bill.The hospitals are already getting set for October 1st. I had a patient this week who was refused care because he was hospitalized the previous week. His family even took their attorney to the hospital with them to try and get him cared for--but the hospital still sent him home. We took him the next day to another hospital. They admitted him and found he had suffered a stroke. Believe me, the hospitals are not going to be the main ones to suffer over this bill-- it will be sick people that will suffer! How may of you have actually read this bill? I have read it and there are many problems!! Oh and by the way, I am a Democrat and have been since I registered years ago but the people I care for come before politics!


Thank you for sharing your experiences.  Be advised that Obama supporters who know absolutely nothing about the healthcare industry will say you're lying.


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## CausingPAIN (Sep 2, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Under provisions of obamacare, if you get discharged from the hospital and have a complication, you won't get seen in an emergency room.
> 
> More than 2,200 hospitals face penalties under ObamaCare rules | Fox News
> 
> ...


I feel there's some other laws that apply here and I feel that the hospital's want billable patients regardless who, let collections run its course by the way collections is a pretty good activity they get to review the patients information not medical and buy the debt and we all know that it doesn't really cost $25,000 to set a broken arm generally speaking
Why emergency rooms don't close the health care gap​
Why emergency rooms don't close the health care gap - CNN.com


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## AmyNation (Sep 2, 2012)

daveman said:


> KLCB said:
> 
> 
> > I am a geriatric nurse and social worker of over 20 years in Ohio. I have already seen the disaster taking place from this bill.The hospitals are already getting set for October 1st. I had a patient this week who was refused care because he was hospitalized the previous week. His family even took their attorney to the hospital with them to try and get him cared for--but the hospital still sent him home. We took him the next day to another hospital. They admitted him and found he had suffered a stroke. Believe me, the hospitals are not going to be the main ones to suffer over this bill-- it will be sick people that will suffer! How may of you have actually read this bill? I have read it and there are many problems!! Oh and by the way, I am a Democrat and have been since I registered years ago but the people I care for come before politics!
> ...



When was the last time you were in an ER?


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## geauxtohell (Sep 2, 2012)

KLCB said:


> I am a geriatric nurse and social worker of over 20 years in Ohio. I have already seen the disaster taking place from this bill.The hospitals are already getting set for October 1st. I had a patient this week who was refused care because he was hospitalized the previous week. His family even took their attorney to the hospital with them to try and get him cared for--but the hospital still sent him home. We took him the next day to another hospital. They admitted him and found he had suffered a stroke. Believe me, the hospitals are not going to be the main ones to suffer over this bill-- it will be sick people that will suffer! How may of you have actually read this bill? I have read it and there are many problems!! Oh and by the way, I am a Democrat and have been since I registered years ago but the people I care for come before politics!



A hospital refused to treat an acute CVA because he had been in the hospital one week ago?

Does not compute...........


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## Care4all (Sep 2, 2012)

hmmm, this is not for ER visits....the article DID NOT say that....this is for medicare....

and no way would the hospital turn away a readmission of a patient that was sick...number 1, they would be sued from here to high heaven for malpractice...

This encourages the hospitals to treat the patient properly, the first time they were admitted, not release them too early....the law does not stop them from admitting patients a second or third time, IF this is what the patient needs, PERIOD.


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## geauxtohell (Sep 2, 2012)

Care4all said:


> hmmm, this is not for ER visits....the article DID NOT say that....this is for medicare....
> 
> and no way would the hospital turn away a readmission of a patient that was sick...number 1, they would be sued from here to high heaven for malpractice...
> 
> This encourages the hospitals to treat the patient properly, the first time they were admitted, not release them too early....the law does not stop them from admitting patients a second or third time, IF this is what the patient needs, PERIOD.



I suspect there is more to this story.  It's kind of hard to miss a stroke.  It kind of slaps you upside the face.


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## daveman (Sep 2, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > KLCB said:
> ...


About two weeks ago.  My wife's been having breathing issues since late last year, and we can't get a good diagnosis.  The pulmonologist who treated her earlier is a dick who won't listen to his patients, and the other ones in town work in the same practice as him and they won't second-guess each other.  

Meanwhile, I can't help but notice you've utterly disregarded KKLCB's post.


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## geauxtohell (Sep 2, 2012)

daveman said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



You have insurance.  Why not go to a different town?  

BTW, did you get poor care in the ED?  Did they refuse to treat your wife?  

I'd wager she got 1 to 2 breathing treatments/duonebs and a blast of steroids, improved, and went home.


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## AmyNation (Sep 2, 2012)

daveman said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Yes I am totally disregarding her post.

No ER will refuse a patient in need of care. It's agaisnt the law, and opens the hospital up to a lawsuit. Hospitals are required by law to treat you and stabilize you, after that they can transfer you if needed, but they can't say " we've already helped you this month, go somewhere else"


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## geauxtohell (Sep 2, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > AmyNation said:
> ...



EMTALA.

They can't just "transfer" them either.  It has to be an appropriate transfer.  

Again, I suspect there is more to this story.


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## daveman (Sep 2, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > AmyNation said:
> ...


Because the closest other pulmonologist is 2 hours away.  And in another zone for my insurance.


geauxtohell said:


> BTW, did you get poor care in the ED?  Did they refuse to treat your wife?


The intern on one visit basically did nothing.  He wasn't about to do anything that went against the pulmonologist's diagnosis...which kept changing, and the treatment he prescribed didn't work.


geauxtohell said:


> I'd wager she got 1 to 2 breathing treatments/duonebs and a blast of steroids, improved, and went home.


You'd lose.  And the treatments she did get were strictly temporary -- nothing to help the underlying cause...which we STILL don't know what is.


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## daveman (Sep 2, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > AmyNation said:
> ...


Not at all surprising, really.


AmyNation said:


> No ER will refuse a patient in need of care. It's agaisnt the law, and opens the hospital up to a lawsuit. Hospitals are required by law to treat you and stabilize you, after that they can transfer you if needed, but they can't say " we've already helped you this month, go somewhere else"


Ahh, but the law is changing, isn't it?

And nobody really knows how.  That's what happens when you rush through a poorly-written pile of crap that's had no thought given to the consequences.


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## geauxtohell (Sep 2, 2012)

daveman said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Sounds like you have it nailed.  Why not make the diagnosis and implement a plan of treatment yourself?

I mean, you obviously know more than the Pulm/critical care doctors and ED doctors in your town!

As an aside, I'll bet you hate "obamacare" don't you?  Rube.


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## geauxtohell (Sep 2, 2012)

daveman said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



No.  Obamacare does nothing to change EMTALA, which is a federal mandate from 1986.  

Nice try, though.


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## AmyNation (Sep 2, 2012)

daveman said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



*shrug* that's your opinion, I doubt anything I could type would change your opinion of the ACA.

On a side note, I spent last night in the ER with my daughter who was running a fever. There were signs, in several languages posted all over the place, declaring that the hospital would treat you, no matter if you could afford to pay, but that you would be required to pay something, if it was deemed you were able.

I was very greatful to have insurance, because unlike many I was able to focus on my sick child, and not what the cost was going to be at the end of the night.


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## geauxtohell (Sep 2, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > AmyNation said:
> ...



Either way, you're daughter would be treated.  Another consequence of EMTALA.

Some would say EMTALA was our first step towards socialized medicine as it prevented hospitals from basing treatment on ability to pay.  Which, de facto, meant that everybody got treated.

We owe Ronald Reagan a great debt of gratitude for signing it into law..........


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## Greenbeard (Sep 2, 2012)

daveman said:


> Ahh, but the law is changing, isn't it?
> 
> And nobody really knows how.



Actually, a great many people really know how.

It's been three years, you can stop with the "rushed through" stuff. If you don't know what's in it by now after _three years_, you were never going to know and you likely never will.


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## Polk (Sep 3, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



I don't think there's a story here. It's all outrage pimping.


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## Polk (Sep 3, 2012)

Greenbeard said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Ahh, but the law is changing, isn't it?
> ...



You actually expect him to read? Elitist snob.


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## daveman (Sep 3, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> Sounds like you have it nailed.  Why not make the diagnosis and implement a plan of treatment yourself?
> 
> I mean, you obviously know more than the Pulm/critical care doctors and ED doctors in your town!


When a doctor doesn't listen to his patient's description of symptoms, makes a diagnosis and prescribes a treatment that doesn't work, then changes the diagnosis and prescribes another treatment that doesn't work...something's wrong.  With the doctor.

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but doctors aren't gods.  They're human, and therefore fallible.


geauxtohell said:


> As an aside, I'll bet you hate "obamacare" don't you?  Rube.


Obama isn't a god, either.

No, really.

I'll give you a few moments to get over the shock.


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## daveman (Sep 3, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > AmyNation said:
> ...


True, but that doesn't alter my contention that Obamacare is a poorly-written pile of crap that's had no thought given to the consequences.


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## daveman (Sep 3, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > AmyNation said:
> ...



I hope your daughter's feeling better.  It's always terrifying to have a child in the ER.


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## daveman (Sep 3, 2012)

Greenbeard said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Ahh, but the law is changing, isn't it?
> ...


You're saying it wasn't rushed through?

Really?

Because it was, you know.  Hell, even the Democratic leadership didn't read it.


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## AmyNation (Sep 3, 2012)

daveman said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



She is, thank you


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## daveman (Sep 3, 2012)

Polk said:


> Greenbeard said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...


Speaking of elitist snobs...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoE1R-xH5To]Pelosi: we have to pass the health care bill so that you can find out what is in it - YouTube[/ame]

I guarantee you had no problem with Pelosi's statement.


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## daveman (Sep 3, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > AmyNation said:
> ...


Good!


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## Greenbeard (Sep 3, 2012)

daveman said:


> You're saying it wasn't rushed through?
> 
> Really?



I'm saying an extra month or two wouldn't have given you more time to read it if three years later you still haven't found the time.

Its contents are mysterious to you because you don't give a shit. I imagine it's easier to allow yourself to believe any wild claim the rightwing blogs make if you don't make any effort to ascertain the truth.


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