# Ahmadinejad says Israel will soon disappear



## Toro

Ol' crazy Mahmoud is at it again.

And like Pastor Hagee, he waits for the apocalypse.



> Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad predicted on Monday that Muslims would uproot "satanic powers" and repeated his controversial belief that Israel will soon disappear, the Mehr news agency reported.
> 
> "I must announce that the Zionist regime (Israel), with a 60-year record of genocide, plunder, invasion and betrayal is about to die and will soon be erased from the geographical scene," he said.
> 
> "Today, the time for the fall of the satanic power of the United States has come and the countdown to the annihilation of the emperor of power and wealth has started."
> 
> Since taking the presidency in August 2005, Ahmadinejad has repeatedly provoked international outrage by predicting Israel is doomed to disappear.
> 
> "I tell you that with the unity and awareness of all the Islamic countries all the satanic powers will soon be destroyed," he said to a group of foreign visitors ahead of the 19th anniversary of the death of revolutionary leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.
> 
> Ahmadinejad also again expressed his apocalyptic vision that tyranny in the world be abolished by the return to earth of the Mahdi, the 12th imam of Shiite Islam, alongside great religious figures including Jesus Christ.
> 
> "With the appearance of the promised saviour... and his companions such as Jesus Christ, tyranny will be soon be eradicated in the world."
> 
> Ahmadinejad has always been a devotee of the Mahdi, who Shiites believe disappeared more than a thousand years ago and who will return one day to usher in a new era of peace and harmony.
> 
> His emphasis on the Mahdi has been a cause of controversy inside Iran with critics saying he would be better solving bread-and-butter domestic problems rather than talking about Iran's divine responsibility.



Ahmadinejad says Israel will soon disappear - Yahoo! News

Good stuff


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## ReillyT

Toro said:


> Ol' crazy Mahmoud is at it again.
> 
> And like Pastor Hagee, he waits for the apocalypse.
> 
> 
> 
> Ahmadinejad says Israel will soon disappear - Yahoo! News
> 
> Good stuff



Our politicians draw our attention away with the devilry of gay marriage.  He takes a slightly less... subtle track.

Khatami sure was boring compared to this guy.


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## José

With "friends" like the iranian theocrats the palestinian people doesn't even need the jewish racial dictatorship and the IDF.

The only thing that makes a lot of sense is the thread's title.


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## jreeves

Toro said:


> *Ol' crazy *Mahmoud is at it again.
> 
> And like Pastor Hagee, he waits for the apocalypse.
> 
> 
> 
> Ahmadinejad says Israel will soon disappear - Yahoo! News
> 
> Good stuff



Just imagine the negotiations, Obama is going to have with this loon.


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## Gunny

Toro said:


> Ol' crazy Mahmoud is at it again.
> 
> And like Pastor Hagee, he waits for the apocalypse.
> 
> 
> 
> Ahmadinejad says Israel will soon disappear - Yahoo! News
> 
> Good stuff



The Iranian version of "Baghdad Bob."


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## Swamp Fox

The problem with this nutjob is that he's not waiting for the apocalypse, he wants to start it.


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## Shogun

HA!

yea.. HE"S the one who wants to instigate the second coming.. sure..  thats the ticket.


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## dread

Shogun said:


> HA!
> 
> yea.. HE"S the one who wants to instigate the second coming.. sure..  thats the ticket.





So are you saying that if someone wanted you dead you would JUST poo-poo them?


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## Shogun

im saying that statements have been purposefully poo-pooed before and the timing is awfully circumspect.  


and, THAT particular statement was poking fun at the hagee irony of the idea that muslims are trying to force a CHRISTIAN prophecy.


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## dread

Well the Muslims seem to think that it is their prophecy.


http://revolution.muslimpad.com/2008/06/06/signs-of-the-last-day-in-islaam-and-christianity/



In Islaam, our beliefs of the events of the last day are a part of our creed and hence, our knowledge on certain events are more developed than the Christians. For some Christians, they seem quite firm whereas others play the guessing game. This speech and dialog between the two tells us the following:

1. Christianity does not have much of a response to the strange events developing with Israel whereas Islaam does.

2. Christianity is not precise on the anti-Christ whereas Islaam is very specific.

3. The plethora of minor signs of the last day in Islaam are so great in abundance that it shows the prophesy of truth of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.


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## Shogun

everyone has a reason to rationalize, dont they?


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## Dirt McGirt

GunnyL said:


> The Iranian version of "Baghdad Bob."



...or the US Messageboard version of Jose.


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## José

> Originally Posted by *GunnyL*
> The Iranian version of "Baghdad Bob."





> Originally posted by *Dirt McGirt*
> ...or the US Messageboard version of Jose.



People hopelessly disconnected from reality, a.k.a., Baghdad Bob, is you and your idol, Obama, who, after 60 years, still believe those arabs will someday stop fighting for their homeland and *live in a palestinian state, existing side by side with Israel, in peace and security, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...*

If only I had that proverbial bridge to sell you...


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## José

I dont even know why I still bother to reply to McGirt. I should put him on ignore cause he doesnt fight fair.

McGirt shamelessly hitting below the waistline:

*"I'd say it's not nearly as destructive as the wife beating culture you identify with. Hit any women lately, Jose?"*


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## RetiredGySgt

José;699312 said:
			
		

> I dont even know why I still bother to reply to McGirt. I should put him on ignore cause he doesnt fight fair.
> 
> McGirt shamelessly hitting below the waistline:
> 
> *"I'd say it's not nearly as destructive as the wife beating culture you identify with. Hit any women lately, Jose?"*



Funny I vaguely recall why that comment is appropriate. But of course you won't admit to that , now will ya? So tell me, Have you stopped beating your wife yet?


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## Paulie

dread said:


> Well the Muslims seem to think that it is their prophecy.
> 
> 
> http://revolution.muslimpad.com/2008/06/06/signs-of-the-last-day-in-islaam-and-christianity/
> 
> 
> 
> In Islaam, our beliefs of the events of the last day are a part of our creed and hence, our knowledge on certain events are more developed than the Christians. For some Christians, they seem quite firm whereas others play the guessing game. This speech and dialog between the two tells us the following:
> 
> 1. Christianity does not have much of a response to the strange events developing with Israel whereas Islaam does.
> 
> 2. Christianity is not precise on the anti-Christ whereas Islaam is very specific.
> 
> 3. The plethora of minor signs of the last day in Islaam are so great in abundance that it shows the prophesy of truth of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.



I don't know, this seems like a good example of why religion is hurting this world more than helping it.

Imagine Christians, Muslims, and Jews not being Christians, Muslims, and Jews, and instead viewing each other merely as co-inhabitants of Earth.

What would there be to bicker about?  I mean, the fight for land is because of their religious beliefs.  They won't agree to divide Jerusalem for religious reasons.

Each religion is guilty of its own conquests throughout history.  Why put Islam on a pedestal?


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## dilloduck

Paulitics said:


> I don't know, this seems like a good example of why religion is hurting this world more than helping it.
> 
> Imagine Christians, Muslims, and Jews not being Christians, Muslims, and Jews, and instead viewing each other merely as co-inhabitants of Earth.
> 
> What would there be to bicker about?  I mean, the fight for land is because of their religious beliefs.  They won't agree to divide Jerusalem for religious reasons.
> 
> Each religion is guilty of its own conquests throughout history.  Why put Islam on a pedestal?



Anyone who uses religion to back up a claim that land should belong to them is a bit goofy.


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## Shogun

dilloduck said:


> Anyone who uses religion to back up a claim that land should belong to them is a bit goofy.



including burning bush israel?


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## dread

Paulitics said:


> I don't know, this seems like a good example of why religion is hurting this world more than helping it.
> 
> Imagine Christians, Muslims, and Jews not being Christians, Muslims, and Jews, and instead viewing each other merely as co-inhabitants of Earth.
> 
> What would there be to bicker about?  I mean, the fight for land is because of their religious beliefs.  They won't agree to divide Jerusalem for religious reasons.
> 
> Each religion is guilty of its own conquests throughout history.  Why put Islam on a pedestal?





Islam is the one who wants Sharia law thruoughout the world. And will kill you if you dont comply. 


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owCki_Wip5Q]YouTube - Islam: "Whoever Changes His Religion, Kill Him" II[/ame]


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## BrianH

Swamp Fox said:


> The problem with this nutjob is that he's not waiting for the apocalypse, he wants to start it.



makes me wonder if he's shipping a few nukes that direction under the radar....maybe he really means "disappear."


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## Chris

Israel has over 200 nuclear weapons. Israel is going to make Iran disappear.


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## Toro

Kirk said:


> Israel has over 200 nuclear weapons. Israel is going to make Iran disappear.



This is speculation.  Nobody knows how many nuclear weapons Israel has.


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## Chris

Here is a detailed analysis of Israeli nukes.......

Nuclear Weapons - Israel


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## jillian

Kirk said:


> Israel has over 200 nuclear weapons. Israel is going to make Iran disappear.



Because, of course, Israeli leadership are calling for the destruction of Iran just like Irani leadership call for the destruction of Israel, right?

Difference between Israel and Iran is that Israel's not an unstable government that could fall to fundies at any moment.

And I'm sure we'd all love the idea of fundies having nukes, right?


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## dilloduck

Shogun said:


> including burning bush israel?



Of course---I may even have a vision that God gave me Texas and do some ass kicking !!!


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## Gunny

dilloduck said:


> Of course---I may even have a vision that God gave me Texas and do some ass kicking !!!






He already gave it to me.


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## Toro

Kirk said:


> Here is a detailed analysis of Israeli nukes.......
> 
> Nuclear Weapons - Israel



Yes, thanks for proving my point.  Nobody knows how many nukes Israel has.  Those are estimates.


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## Annie

Toro said:


> Yes, thanks for proving my point.  Nobody knows how many nukes Israel has.  Those are estimates.



I do believe Israel has never acknowledged having nukes, correct? Who's to say they do? Has the UN ever found radiation? Have they ever used one? Threatened to?


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## Chris

Proving what point?

Israel will not hesitate to destroy Iran, if Iran threatens them. That is the point. They have plenty of nukes to get the job done.


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## Annie

Kirk said:


> Proving what point?
> 
> Israel will not hesitate to destroy Iran, if Iran threatens them. That is the point. They have plenty of nukes to get the job done.



You know this, how? Could they do it conventionally?


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## RetiredGySgt

Paulitics said:


> I don't know, this seems like a good example of why religion is hurting this world more than helping it.
> 
> Imagine Christians, Muslims, and Jews not being Christians, Muslims, and Jews, and instead viewing each other merely as co-inhabitants of Earth.
> 
> What would there be to bicker about?  I mean, the fight for land is because of their religious beliefs.  They won't agree to divide Jerusalem for religious reasons.
> 
> Each religion is guilty of its own conquests throughout history.  Why put Islam on a pedestal?



No religion would not solve man's squables with other men. If you believe that you are a fool.


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## editec

> Difference between Israel and Iran is that Israel's not an unstable government that could fall to fundies at any moment.



You ARE kidding, right?


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## jillian

editec said:


> You ARE kidding, right?



no. but i look forward to hearing you opine about Israeli fundies who could suddenly go nuke crazy....


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## jillian

Kirk said:


> Proving what point?
> 
> Israel will not hesitate to destroy Iran, if Iran threatens them. That is the point. They have plenty of nukes to get the job done.



just a threat would cause Israel to destroy Iran? And you know that because that's so very much how Israel has behaved historically, right?

might wanna rethink that, chief.


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## Chris

jillian said:


> just a threat would cause Israel to destroy Iran? And you know that because that's so very much how Israel has behaved historically, right?
> 
> might wanna rethink that, chief.



What happened to Iraq's nuclear reactor? What happened to the U.S.S. Liberty?


----------



## jillian

Kirk said:


> What happened to Iraq's nuclear reactor? What happened to the U.S.S. Liberty?



Did Israel nuke Iraq?

Did they occupy Iraq and depose the leader of a sovereign nation like Baby Bush did?

Nope... they did a targeted strike at a nuclear reactor that Iraq would have threatened Israel with. I know it troubles you that Israel couldn't get nuked, but you'll have to get over that.

Try again.

As for the U.S.S. Liberty, what a ridiculous point to raise. The Liberty was off the coast of the Sinai during the six day war and Israel acknowledged immediately it had hit the Liberty in error.

Your point? Other than Israel bashing, of course...

Now stop changing the subject and provide proof of Israel threatening to destroy Iran for no reason.


----------



## Chris

jillian said:


> Did Israel nuke Iraq?
> 
> Did they occupy Iraq and depose the leader of a sovereign nation like Baby Bush did?
> 
> Nope... they did a targeted strike at a nuclear reactor that Iraq would have threatened Israel with. I know it troubles you that Israel couldn't get nuked, but you'll have to get over that.
> 
> Try again.
> 
> As for the U.S.S. Liberty, what a ridiculous point to raise. The Liberty was off the coast of the Sinai during the six day war and Israel acknowledged immediately it had hit the Liberty in error.
> 
> Your point? Other than Israel bashing, of course...
> 
> Now stop changing the subject and provide proof of Israel threatening to destroy Iran for no reason.



The men of the American ship, U.S.S. Liberty, have a website. You need to look at it.

USS Liberty Memorial Main Page


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## Chris

The U.S.S. Liberty after the attack....


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## Chris

The bombing of the King David Hotel........


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## jillian

Yeah, and?

Again, answer the question. And stop changing the subject. I'm not really interested in 60 and and 39 year old propaganda.

What threats has Israel made to destroy Iran?

Stop obfuscating.


----------



## Chris

U.S. sidesteps questions on Israeli threat against Iran
Fri Jun 6, 2008 10:59pm IST  Email | Print | Share| Single Page[-] Text [+] WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The White House on Friday sidestepped questions about an Israeli threat to attack Iranian nuclear sites if it continues uranium enrichment, saying it was committed to dealing with Tehran through multilateral diplomacy.

Israeli Transport Minister Shaul Mofaz was quoted as telling an Israeli newspaper that an attack on Iran looks "unavoidable" given the apparent failure of sanctions to deny Tehran technology with bomb-making potential.

"I understand that Israel is very concerned about their future and their safety when they have a neighbor in their region -- Iran -- that says they want to wipe them off the map," White House spokeswoman Dana Perino told reporters.

"We are trying to solve this diplomatically," she said.

Asked whether the United States was keeping military options open as a last resort with Iran, she said President George W. Bush had always said he "would never take any options off the table" but that Washington was pursuing multilateral diplomacy.


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## jillian

What's the problem with attacking nuclear sites of a country that said it will destroy Israel?

That isn't saying it will destroy Iran. That's just smart.

Again, stop obfuscating..and answer the question.

Putting my moderator hat on now... link your post, please. thanks.


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## Gunny

Kirk said:


> What happened to Iraq's nuclear reactor? What happened to the U.S.S. Liberty?




Neither were nuked.


----------



## Gunny

jillian said:


> What's the problem with attacking nuclear sites of a country that said it will destroy Israel?
> 
> That isn't saying it will destroy Iran. That's just smart.
> 
> Again, stop obfuscating..and answer the question.
> 
> Putting my moderator hat on now... link your post, please. thanks.



You are arguing with this moron, WHY, exactly?  He's spewing incoherently all over the place and has yet to make a valid point at all.

Just sayin ....


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## jillian

GunnyL said:


> You are arguing with this moron, WHY, exactly?  He's spewing incoherently all over the place and has yet to make a valid point at all.
> 
> Just sayin ....



just trying to focus his spewings.


----------



## Gunny

jillian said:


> just trying to focus his spewings.



First he claims Israel will nuke Iraq and references the USS Liberty and Iraq's nuclear reactor as evidence and if he backpeddals any harder he's going to pull something.

Poor Iran ... doomed to be picked on by that colossal superpower Israel.


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## jillian

GunnyL said:


> First he claims Israel will nuke Iraq and references the USS Liberty and Iraq's nuclear reactor as evidence and if he backpeddals any harder he's going to pull something.[/QUOTE
> 
> I know... a mind is a terrible thing to waste.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poor Iran ... doomed to be picked on by that colossal superpower Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I feel so... sad.... somehow... want to hug Iran.... comfort it.
Click to expand...


----------



## Gunny

jillian said:


> GunnyL said:
> 
> 
> 
> First he claims Israel will nuke Iraq and references the USS Liberty and Iraq's nuclear reactor as evidence and if he backpeddals any harder he's going to pull something.[/QUOTE
> 
> I know... a mind is a terrible thing to waste.
> 
> 
> 
> *I feel so... sad.... somehow... want to hug Iran.... comfort it. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Freakin' liberal ....
Click to expand...


----------



## Chris

GunnyL said:


> First he claims Israel will nuke Iraq and references the USS Liberty and Iraq's nuclear reactor as evidence and if he backpeddals any harder he's going to pull something.
> 
> Poor Iran ... doomed to be picked on by that colossal superpower Israel.



Backpedals? She asked for examples of when Israel had threatened anyone. I gave examples of how the Israelis always strike when threatened. They blew up the King David hotel, they attacked the U.S.S. Liberty, and they attacked the Iraqi nuclear power plant. Then I referrenced an Israeli government official threatening Iran.....LAST WEEK. 

Israel will destroy Iran one day. They will have to in order to survive.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Kirk said:


> Backpedals? She asked for examples of when Israel had threatened anyone. I gave examples of how the Israelis always strike when threatened. They blew up the King David hotel, they attacked the U.S.S. Liberty, and they attacked the Iraqi nuclear power plant. Then I referrenced an Israeli government official threatening Iran.....LAST WEEK.
> 
> Israel will destroy Iran one day. They will have to in order to survive.



King David Hotel was one group of Israelis acting against the wishes of the bigger and more organized group that eventually would lead Israel. It was not sanctioned by the "Israeli" Government, since no such entity existed at the time.

The USS Liberty was not nuked, it was strafed by Israeli war planes in an active war zone, Israel claims they mistakenly thought it was an enemy vessel.

The Iraqi Nuclear reactor was not nuked, it was attacked with conventional munitions in an air raid designed to destroy the facility before it came on line to prevent the threat of a Nuclear Iraq.

We are still waiting for you to provide a single source or cite some evidence that Israel has ever or will ever use Nukes. Be particualr on the use of nukes with no nuclear attack on Israel it self.


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## jillian

Kirk said:


> Backpedals? She asked for examples of when Israel had threatened anyone. I gave examples of how the Israelis always strike when threatened. They blew up the King David hotel, they attacked the U.S.S. Liberty, and they attacked the Iraqi nuclear power plant. Then I referrenced an Israeli government official threatening Iran.....LAST WEEK.
> 
> Israel will destroy Iran one day. They will have to in order to survive.



No. I didn't ask when Israel threatened anyone. That wasn't the question. Every country threatens others when it's safety is at stake. Now, read carefully... I asked when Israel threatened to "destroy" another country. Even in victory, it's never done that.. and, in fact, allowed other countries to survive when it wouldn't have been the recipient of such largesse.

Now...answer the question. When has Israel threatened to destroy another country? Stop twisting and turning to try to maintain your premise.


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## editec

> King David Hotel was one group of Israelis acting against the wishes of the bigger and more organized group that eventually would lead Israel.



Wrong.



> The King David Hotel bombing (July 22, 1946) was a bomb attack against the British Mandate government of Palestine and its armed forces by members of the Irgun, a militant Zionist organization, *which was led at the time by Menachem Begin, a future Prime Minister of Israel.*



Zionists were  terrorists, too.


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## Gunny

editec said:


> Wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists were  terrorists, too.



Going to try playing semanitcs on this one? Were you not the one in another thread on freedom of speech stating that we know what words mean based on the context of their use?  

"Terrorism" is in the eyes of the beholder.  Bad guys are terrorists and good guys aren't.  The former for the purposes of this topic would be Islamic fundamentalist morons waging a war of attrition against noncombatants via suicide bombings and any other manner of cold-blooded murder they can think up.  That would include those Arabs calling themselves Palestinians waging a genocidal war against Israel.  

The latter would be those who defend themselves against such scumbags.

There's something wrong with the so-called "civilized" mind of Western eltists who take removing all morality from an argument to the point they can no longer discern between right and wrong, or even worse, begin justifying the immoral actions of an enemy because they cannot divorce themselves from the societal construct of always rooting for the underdog.

Sometimes, as in the case, the underdog can STILL be the bad guys.


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## editec

> Going to try playing semanitcs on this one?



Okay, I'll play.

What is YOUR  definition of terrorism?

This one works pretty well for me...



> Terrorism
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> [1]Terrorism is "the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion."[2] There is is no internationally agreed legal definition.[3] In one modern definition of terrorism, it is violence against civilians to achieve political or ideological objectives by creating fear.[4] Most common definitions of terrorism include only those acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a lone attack), and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants. Some definitions also include acts of unlawful violence and war.
> 
> Terrorism is also a form of unconventional warfare and psychological warfare. The word is politically and emotionally charged,[5] and this greatly compounds the difficulty of providing a precise definition. One 1988 study by the US Army found that over 100 definitions of the word "terrorism" have been used.[6]. A person who practices terrorism is a terrorist.



If you have a different definition, I'm more than willing to look at it.

Based on the above definition, Zionists clearly used terror tactics to force the Brits to open the borders for Jewish immigrants into Palestine pre 1948.

Did you NOT know this fact?

It's not like it's an historical  fact that is in dispute, or anything.

Begin admitted his role is this act of terror, after all.

One presumes that the definition of a terrorist is one who commits violence against civilians to achieve political or ideological objectives by creating fear.

The Zionists did it.

The Anti-Zionists did it.

I don't see much room for debate about that.


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## Chris

jillian said:


> No. I didn't ask when Israel threatened anyone. That wasn't the question. Every country threatens others when it's safety is at stake. Now, read carefully... I asked when Israel threatened to "destroy" another country. Even in victory, it's never done that.. and, in fact, allowed other countries to survive when it wouldn't have been the recipient of such largesse.
> 
> Now...answer the question. When has Israel threatened to destroy another country? Stop twisting and turning to try to maintain your premise.



Whatever....

If Iran gets the bomb. Israel will destroy them. Mark my words. Ahmadinejad is leading his country to destruction. He is the Iranian George Bush.


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## editec

> If Iran gets the bomb. Israel will destroy them.



By "them" do you mean the enite nation of Iran or just their ability to create nuclear bombs?

If you mean the latter, that Israel will attack their nuke facilities, then I'm inclined to think you may be right.

If the former ,than I'd like to suggest that Israel isn't likely to be crazy enough to nuke the whole nation of Iran.

Regardless of how one feels about the State of Israel, regardless of how you view its history, or even its right to exist, suggesting that the Israeli are stoned cold crazy is a mistake.

No saying what happens if the extremist elements of Israel take over, just as with every nation, of course, but their current government isn't  nuts.


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## Shogun

HA!

a zionist supporter accused someone of playing games with SEMANTICS!

RICH.

indeed, the uss liberty, DESPITE THE TESTIMONY OF SURVIVORS, was "merely" strafed by israel.   Only a flesh wound, right?  AND, apparerntly, clandestine JEWS are not terrorists.. they are "rebels" while clandestine muslimis?  fuckit.. they were BORN a terrorist!  I mean, in another 30 years we can all revise history and insist that it was an ARAB that killed Rabin instead of, you guessed it, a JEWISH terrorist.  im probably an antisemite for even entertaining actual history anyway.

having fun with this semantics game yet?  Killing civilians is OK as long as it's "israeli defense" but let a PAL defend some homeland and, youguessed it.. TERRORIST.  We have israeli tanks, snipers, jets, NUKES and the whole gamut against, uh, ROCKS and jerry rigged third party rockets.  Indeed.  Isn't this semantic game FUN?  Refugees are no longer the previous residents of palestine.. nope..  Since there was no official charter written in hebrew THEY DONT COUNT!  "apartheid walls are "merely" for "security".  Prisoners only count if a jew takes custody; otherwise they are called HOSTAGES.  And, my personal favorite, a JEWISH NATION, though being exactly the same goal as the ARYAN NATION, is now a worthwhile endeavor.  Somehow, since ww2, ethnic based predominance of a state is A GOOD THING and, of course, requires the support of the west in propping up a provable cohon surname while evicting pals in the name of a burning bush myth.


Yes, SEMANTICS sure are fun, arent they?


----------



## Chris

editec said:


> By "them" do you mean the enite nation of Iran or just their ability to create nuclear bombs?
> 
> If you mean the latter, that Israel will attack their nuke facilities, then I'm inclined to think you may be right.
> 
> If the former ,than I'd like to suggest that Israel isn't likely to be crazy enough to nuke the whole nation of Iran.
> 
> Regardless of how one feels about the State of Israel, regardless of how you view its history, or even its right to exist, suggesting that the Israeli are stoned cold crazy is a mistake.
> 
> No saying what happens if the extremist elements of Israel take over, just as with every nation, of course, but their current government isn't  nuts.



I don't think they will nuke the entire nation of Iran, but Israel will do whatever is necessary to destory Iran's nuclear capability. I think they will have to use nukes because Iran's nuclear facilities are deep underground.


----------



## jillian

Kirk said:


> Whatever....
> 
> If Iran gets the bomb. Israel will destroy them. Mark my words. Ahmadinejad is leading his country to destruction. He is the Iraninan George Bush.



Not whatever... are you 10? My son does the "whatever" thing when he knows he's wrong.

Israel has no history of destroying it's enemies or threatening to, even in the face of its enemies making EXACTLY those types of efforts. And if your focus is on Ahmadinejad, then you should say so, rather than focusing on Israel just to make (false) anti-Israel points.

BTW, I don't think Ahmadinejad is insane either... but do I think it entirely possible Israel would destroy Iran's nuclear capablity if it had to? Yes, but I think they'd do it as OUR surrogate, as well as for its own benefit.


----------



## Shogun

jillian said:


> Not whatever... are you 10? My son does the "whatever" thing when he knows he's wrong.
> 
> *Israel has no history of destroying it's enemies or threatening to,* even in the face of its enemies making EXACTLY those types of efforts. And if your focus is on Ahmadinejad, then you should say so, rather than focusing on Israel just to make (false) anti-Israel points.
> 
> BTW, I don't think Ahmadinejad is insane either... but do I think it entirely possible Israel would destroy Iran's nuclear capablity if it had to? Yes, but I think they'd do it as OUR surrogate, as well as for its own benefit.





yea.. tell that to a lebonese civilian circa 2006.


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## Chris

jillian said:


> Not whatever... are you 10? My son does the "whatever" thing when he knows he's wrong.
> 
> Israel has no history of destroying it's enemies or threatening to, even in the face of its enemies making EXACTLY those types of efforts. And if your focus is on Ahmadinejad, then you should say so, rather than focusing on Israel just to make (false) anti-Israel points.
> 
> BTW, I don't think Ahmadinejad is insane either... but do I think it entirely possible Israel would destroy Iran's nuclear capablity if it had to? Yes, but I think they'd do it as OUR surrogate, as well as for its own benefit.



Personal insults are not convincing arguments. Israel has no history of destroying their enemies? Have you read the Bible? Their whole history is about trying to destroy their enemies.

What made you think that my points were anti-Israeli?


----------



## jillian

Kirk said:


> What made you think that my points were anti-Israeli?



Puleeze tell me you're kidding...

and we're talking about contemporary Israel over the last 60 years... we could go back to the crusades, too... but we're not doing that, are we?


----------



## Shogun

dude.. she can READ YOUR MIND!


----------



## Chris

jillian said:


> Puleeze tell me you're kidding...
> 
> and we're talking about contemporary Israel over the last 60 years... we could go back to the crusades, too... but we're not doing that, are we?



The British were against Israel, so the Israelis blew up the King David hotel and killed innocent people. The U.S.S. Liberty was spying on Israel in the 1967 war, so the Israelis attacked it for almost an hour and killed American sailors. Israel attacked Lebanon in the 1980's and again in 2006. Whenever Israel is threatened, Israel attacks. They will do the same with Iran.

Ahmadinejad is dancing around playing with fire. Literally.


----------



## jillian

Kirk said:


> The British were against Israel, so the Israelis blew up the King David hotel and killed innocent people. The U.S.S. Liberty was spying on Israel in the 1967 war, so the Israelis attacked it for almost an hour and killed American sailors. Israel attacked Lebanon in the 1980's and again in 2006. Whenever Israel is threatened, Israel attacks. They will do the same with Iran.
> 
> Ahmadinejad is dancing around playing with fire. Literally.



There was no official "israeli" government when the King David was blown up. The Irgun blew up the King David.. not because the Brits were against Israel... but because they wouldn't turn over the mandate. The Irgun was never the ISraeli government, though, admittedly a member of the Irgun, the one who planned

BTW, the King David Hotel was the center of British Military Ops. It wasn't a CIVILIAN target. The Irgun also warned the Brits to evacuate the building. They refused.

As for Ahmadinejad... I've already said my piece on that.


----------



## Shogun

jillian said:


> There was no official "israeli" government when the King David was blown up. The Irgun blew up the King David.. not because the Brits were against Israel... *but because they wouldn't turn over the mandate.* The Irgun was never the ISraeli government, though, admittedly a member of the Irgun, the one who planned
> 
> BTW, the King David Hotel was the center of British Military Ops. *It wasn't a CIVILIAN target.* The Irgun also warned the Brits to evacuate the building. They refused.
> 
> As for Ahmadinejad... I've already said my piece on that.



talk about polishing a turd.

indeed, the hotel, the liberty and everyone else better LEARN the lesson.

you don't fuck with the zohan, apparently, or you become an easily rationalized excuse for zionism.


----------



## jillian

alll of which fails to refute a single fact I stated. I know how messy facts can be for you. You do seem to have problems not misrepresenting things.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

jillian said:


> alll of which fails to refute a single fact I stated. I know how messy facts can be for you. You do seem to have problems not misrepresenting things.



His whole schtick depends on ignoring facts. 

There is a HUGE difference between attacking military targets and randomly attacking civilian targets, as well as warning the target it will be attacked in enough time to evacuate.

Big difference between attacking soldiers that are disarming you so that you can die when they leave to other soldiers and blowing up bus loads of children and women.

Irgun were terrorists, indeed, but not the same as the Arabs. But then American militia in the revolutionary war were terrorists by that definition.


----------



## Zoomie1980

Toro said:


> This is speculation.  Nobody knows how many nuclear weapons Israel has.



Well, I do.  At least pretty close.  And it's enough to turn Iran into an obsidian wasteland.


----------



## Zoomie1980

jillian said:


> Did Israel nuke Iraq?
> 
> Did they occupy Iraq and depose the leader of a sovereign nation like Baby Bush did?
> 
> Nope... they did a targeted strike at a nuclear reactor that Iraq would have threatened Israel with. I know it troubles you that Israel couldn't get nuked, but you'll have to get over that.
> 
> Try again.
> 
> As for the U.S.S. Liberty, what a ridiculous point to raise. The Liberty was off the coast of the Sinai during the six day war and Israel acknowledged immediately it had hit the Liberty in error.
> 
> Your point? Other than Israel bashing, of course...
> 
> Now stop changing the subject and provide proof of Israel threatening to destroy Iran for no reason.



One thing we can count on out of Israel is that they will do EXACTLY what they have to do to ensure their safety and survival.  No more and no less.  They generally will not attack unless attacked or imminently threatened.  And they are the absolute masters of their part of the world, militarily.  If Iran does develop a nuclear plant that Israel confirms is a threat they WILL take it out, but no more.

In 1967 they took on the combined Arab armed forces of Egypt, Jordan and Syria and took them out, completely and utterly in six short days.  In 1973 they did it again. Took longer, but they did it.  In 1982, in less than one hour they shot down the ENTIRE SYRIAN AIR FORCE without a single loss.  82-0.  I was there, as a FAC for the Israeli Air Force..


----------



## Zoomie1980

Kirk said:


> Whatever....
> 
> If Iran gets the bomb. Israel will destroy them. Mark my words. Ahmadinejad is leading his country to destruction. He is the Iranian George Bush.



Israel will never allow it to get that far.  They will take out facilities long before Iran ever reaches weapon grade production capability.  And with their usual pinpoint precision.


----------



## Zoomie1980

Kirk said:


> Personal insults are not convincing arguments. Israel has no history of destroying their enemies? Have you read the Bible? Their whole history is about trying to destroy their enemies.
> 
> What made you think that my points were anti-Israeli?



Five times since 1947 Israel could have pressed CRUSHING victories against their attackers to occupy and take their their enemy's capitals and countries.  Especially in 1967 when they completely wiped out all three of their attacker's armed forces in six days.  Did they march to Damascus? Amman?  Cairo?  They could have, very easily.  NO.  That's not their way.


----------



## Zoomie1980

Kirk said:


> The British were against Israel, so the Israelis blew up the King David hotel and killed innocent people. The U.S.S. Liberty was spying on Israel in the 1967 war, so the Israelis attacked it for almost an hour and killed American sailors. Israel attacked Lebanon in the 1980's and again in 2006. Whenever Israel is threatened, Israel attacks. They will do the same with Iran.
> 
> Ahmadinejad is dancing around playing with fire. Literally.



Israel will attack ONLY when ATTACKED.  Period.  They struck in 1982 because Hezbollah was attacking them with Syrian backing.  Same thing in 2006.  Leave them alone and they live quietly.  Attack them and they will destroy the attacking force, but no more.


----------



## jillian

Zoomie1980 said:


> Five times since 1947 Israel could have pressed CRUSHING victories against their attackers to occupy and take their their enemy's capitals and countries.  Especially in 1967 when they completely wiped out all three of their attacker's armed forces in six days.  Did they march to Damascus? Amman?  Cairo?  They could have, very easily.  NO.  That's not their way.



Doesn't matter, they'll still defend the people who try to kill Israelis and blame Israel for all of the ills in the world.


----------



## Shogun

jillian said:


> alll of which fails to refute a single fact I stated. I know how messy facts can be for you. You do seem to have problems not misrepresenting things.



tell it to the pali video cam, jill.  Indeed, your lecture on misrepresentation is RICH.


----------



## Shogun

RetiredGySgt said:


> His whole schtick depends on ignoring facts.
> There is a HUGE difference between attacking military targets and randomly attacking civilian targets, as well as warning the target it will be attacked in enough time to evacuate.
> Big difference between attacking soldiers that are disarming you so that you can die when they leave to other soldiers and blowing up bus loads of children and women.
> Irgun were terrorists, indeed, but not the same as the Arabs. But then American militia in the revolutionary war were terrorists by that definition.




NOT the same, eh?  Tell it to the ghosts of those who died on the USS liberty.  You would make any excuse necessary to rationalize YOUR VERSION of a 72 virgin promise, buddy.


----------



## jillian

oh no! an error in wartime.

where are your threads about missiiles sent into Israel by pals and hezbollah...

we'll wait, i'm sure...


----------



## editec

Israel will defend its right to exist.

The Palestinians will continue to kill Israelis by terrorist means.

This actually reminds me of the 700 year conflict for Ireland, only the music isn't nearly as good.


----------



## jillian

lol... true enough, but I do kinda like Yael Naim's "New Soul"


----------



## editec

What the Israeli Palestinian conflict needs is a really stirring Klezmer/Meyjana musical sound tract.


----------



## Shogun

jillian said:


> oh no! an error in wartime.
> 
> where are your threads about missiiles sent into Israel by pals and hezbollah...
> 
> we'll wait, i'm sure...



an ERROR, eh?

HAHAHA!

awsome.  And the holocaust was just a clerical mistake, eh?


careful bringing up Ireland since, clearly, Jillian doesn't really enjoy comparative circumstances that unravel the zionism.  You know, like Nelson Mandela's TERRORIST BACKGROUND.

if only South Africa tried to put a premiusm of an ethnicity like israel does with jews.. oh wait...


----------



## jillian

blah blah blah blah blah....

again, where's your threads on missiles from hezbollah and the gaza.

I suspect I'm going to be very old before you post one.

No bias there, for sure.

again, i'm not particularly interested in your pro palestinian propaganda BS... 

since you claim you're not anti-jewish, lets see how fair you are. post threads on attacks on Israelis from the Gaza and Lebanon that actually show some outrage about those things.

Come on Mighty Mouth, I double dare you.


----------



## Shogun

.dsrtfjdgh,mgh


there is a glitch in the matrix.  this posted 3 times and each time I try and edit #1 and #2 I can only edit #1.


----------



## Shogun

Seems to me israel ALREADY has a nice comfy spot behind the pantleg of the west to make your challenge amount to chamberlain rationalizing nazi complaints about jews and landmass.  When jews in israel feel the same DAS BOOT as pals do then i'll post em.  Otherwise, i don't find it necessary to  follow your  instructions on what I should or should not be posting.  Trust me, your laughable silence in the "jew whopping an old palis ass" thread speaks volumes about your honesty.  You calling me out is pretty much like dracula calling Renfield evil.


----------



## jillian

sorry, baby. i had such high hopes. 

you got no game.


----------



## Shogun

or, rather, i'm impervious to your dark jedi use of the force.  As much as you want to believe otherwise, Jillian, you are not defending the downtrodden population in this equasion.  If jews were being treated like israel treats pals id be all over it in a heartbeat.  But, thats simply not the case.  


and, you know, im just not a fan of state governments that put a premium on any particular ethnicity; be they hebrew or aryan.  trust me, Im not the one holding racist tendencies here between the two of us no matter how much standard zionist bullshit you pull in these threads.


----------



## Charles_Main

If Iran ever attack Israel it will be Iran who ceases to exsist I assure you. Lets all hope that never happens. It will not be pretty at all.


----------



## dilloduck

Charles_Main said:


> If Iran ever attack Israel it will be Iran who ceases to exsist I assure you. Lets all hope that never happens. It will not be pretty at all.



How is it that you are so sure of this ? Seriously.


----------



## Charles_Main

Because I know the mind set of the Israeli people when it comes to Iran, and am pretty sure of Israels nuclear capabilities. If Iran were ever to attack Israel would wipe them off the face of the earth. The general mind set in Israel is Never again, refering to the mass murder of Jews in WWII of course. while many Israelis actually oppose many of their governments actions, they are almost of one mind on Iran. They are prepared to decimate any nation who attacks them, and generally feel they can count on no one, not even the US for support when push comes to shove.

Israel does have Nukes, and not some small atom bombs like Iran is trying to build but full fledged thermal Nuclear weapons in the 10 mega ton range. 

I can only assume Iran is aware of this, and their threats are just bluster and not real.

I Hope anyways. A nuclear war in the middle east would screw us all.


----------



## jillian

Charles_Main said:


> I can only assume Iran is aware of this, and their threats are just bluster and not real.



I think a lot of it is bluster and wishful thinking; same as with Saddam.



> I Hope anyways. A nuclear war in the middle east would screw us all.



It might behoove us to explore alternative energy before such a thing happens.


----------



## Charles_Main

jillian said:


> I think a lot of it is bluster and wishful thinking; same as with Saddam.
> 
> 
> 
> It might behoove us to explore alternative energy before such a thing happens.



developing alternative fuels will do nothing to stop a war between Israel and Iran. That conflict has nothing to do with oil, it is about land and religion. However I am with you, I totally support developing alternatives to Oil, as well as supporting going after all the oil we can.

See we can agree on some things


----------



## Shogun

yea dude.. iran sure is trying to steal land in israel.  ironic as that would be.


isreal would be an easier pill for muslim nations to swallow if there were a single state solution instead of rationalized racism that puts pals behind an apartheid wall.


----------



## Charles_Main

where did I say Iran was trying to steal land in Israel bud? get a grip. Iran opposes Israel because Israel is occupying muslim holy sites, and on basic religious grounds. Also Iran is trying to support or thinks they are supporting the Palistinian people by opposing Israels right to exsist. 

As far as a single state solution, I do not see either side ever actually accepting that, further more with the level of hate between the 2 sides I am not so sure it would be a good Idea anyways, but I could be wrong.

Stop putting words in my mouth ok.


----------



## Shogun

I apologize.  

Imagine if Palestine were used as a compromise location to house nuclear energy facilities for Iran and Palestine so that iran could have a power source and Pal could develop as a nation.  I don't think war is unavoidable.


----------



## Charles_Main

I have had a long held belief that the international community should occupy Jerusalem and the 1967 Borders. Force Israel to return to those borders. Make Jerusalem an International Free city. Open to all but owned by none, check your guns at the door.

Now it may shock you I feel this way being part Jewish, but In my mind the most important thing is to stop the killing on both sides. Neither side are saints or devils IMO, and they will not stop fighting with out some kind of intervention. IMO anyways.


----------



## Annie

Charles_Main said:


> I have had a long held belief that the international community should occupy Jerusalem and the 1967 Borders. Force Israel to return to those borders. Make Jerusalem an International Free city. Open to all but owned by none, check your guns at the door.
> 
> Now it may shock you I feel this way being part Jewish, but In my mind the most important thing is to stop the killing on both sides. Neither side are saints or devils IMO, and they will not stop fighting with out some kind of intervention. IMO anyways.



You really believe making Jerusalem a 'open' city will stop the carnage?


----------



## Charles_Main

Kathianne said:


> You really believe making Jerusalem a 'open' city will stop the carnage?




Well taking it out of Israels hands would be a start. The fact Israel occupies that city is a very sore point in the conflict. Would it stop the carnage, I don't know, but it would be a start I think.

One of the worst, and most provacative  things Israel has ever done, was moving its Capital from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. It was a deliberate slap in the face of not only Muslims but many Chirstians as well. The city is Holy to 3 of the worlds major religions, It only makes sense to me that none of them alone should be able to own it.

I am not alone in the opinion nor am I the first to suggest it, Believe it or not many Israelis feel the same way. Contrary to popular belief Israel is a pretty Liberal Nation where the People often strongly disagree with their government and say so loudly.


----------



## Annie

Charles_Main said:


> Well taking it out of Israels hands would be a start. The fact Israel occupies that city is a very sore point in the conflict. Would it stop the carnage, I don't know, but it would be a start I think.
> 
> One of the worst, and most provacative things Israel ever did IMO is moving their capital for Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.



Start of what? Seriously you are hoping, against hope, that the Palestinians and their master, (Iran), want peace. You are wrong, sorry. 

If that is what it took for peace, would have been done 20 years ago.


----------



## Charles_Main

Kathianne said:


> Start of what? Seriously you are hoping, against hope, that the Palestinians and their master, (Iran), want peace. You are wrong, sorry.
> 
> If that is what it took for peace, would have been done 20 years ago.



Well I can't argue with that at all. At the least it would help Israels Image with the rest of the world though, also I think it would take some of the fuel away from those who stir up anti Israeli feelings amongst the Palestinians

I am pleased to see someone else who recognizes that those who are in control of the Palestinians are not after peace, Regardless of what they say. Their goal has always been, and always will be the destruction of Israel.


----------



## Annie

Charles_Main said:


> Well I can't argue with that at all. At the least it would help Israels Image with the rest of the world though.



There is NOTHING Israel can do to help its image with 'the rest of the world'. That should be obvious by the 'resolutions' passed in the UN.


----------



## Charles_Main

again I cant argue with that either. 

You are pleasing me more and more.


----------



## Shogun

Charles_Main said:


> I have had a long held belief that the international community should occupy Jerusalem and the 1967 Borders. Force Israel to return to those borders. Make Jerusalem an International Free city. Open to all but owned by none, check your guns at the door.
> 
> Now it may shock you I feel this way being part Jewish, but In my mind the most important thing is to stop the killing on both sides. Neither side are saints or devils IMO, and they will not stop fighting with out some kind of intervention. IMO anyways.



It doesnt shock me at all.  Im not fool enough to assume that all jews are diehard zionists.  


I'd rather see Palisrael combine the entire landmass similar to the union of east and west germany where both ethnic and religious populations SHARE jerusalem and a single common nation.  It's beyond me how israel, as a nation, is allowed to hold an ethnic premium for citizenship anyway.  Both peoples have history on that land.  Giving it to one marginalizes the other.  


Either way.  it all ends at temple mount.


----------



## Shogun

Kathianne said:


> Start of what? Seriously you are hoping, against hope, that the Palestinians and their master, (Iran), want peace. You are wrong, sorry.
> 
> If that is what it took for peace, would have been done 20 years ago.



palestines master is no more iran than cuba's was russia.  Israel's irony is their treatment of the pals.  By showing an effort to assimilate them would gain more ground than crying martyr and hiding behind the pantleg of the US.


----------



## Shogun

Charles_Main said:


> Well I can't argue with that at all. At the least it would help Israels Image with the rest of the world though, also I think it would take some of the fuel away from those who stir up anti Israeli feelings amongst the Palestinians
> 
> I am pleased to see someone else who recognizes that those who are in control of the Palestinians are not after peace, Regardless of what they say. Their goal has always been, and always will be the destruction of Israel.



Much like Geronimo's goal was the ejecting of white men from their land?  Dare I bring up the Nelson Mandella example?  He was also a "terrorist", you know.


----------



## Annie

Shogun said:


> palestines master is no more iran than cuba's was russia.  Israel's irony is their treatment of the pals.  By showing an effort to assimilate them would gain more ground than crying martyr and hiding behind the pantleg of the US.



Hello? Who gave Cuba the missiles that led to the crisis of October? You're right, there are analogies.

When has Israel turned down any effort at peace?


----------



## Shogun

Kathianne said:


> There is NOTHING Israel can do to help its image with 'the rest of the world'. That should be obvious by the 'resolutions' passed in the UN.



thats bullshit, kath.


----------



## Annie

Shogun said:


> thats bullshit, kath.



Quite the contrary. Look at who and what.


----------



## Charles_Main

Israel has long taken the land for peace approach, which of course is not working. Each time they give up land they are thanked with more suicide attacks and rockets. They have literally bent over backwards recently for peace, and each time it has brought nothing but more carnage.

As far as Iran being the Palestinians master. It is true. Follow the money.

Just as with hezzbollah in Lebanon. Iran funds them and calls the shots, Hamas acts out the will of Iran as much as they do their own will. Often at the cost of Palestinian lives.

The recent war between Israel and hezzbollah in Lebanon is proof of my point that they are doing Iran's will. Israel was not occupying one inch of Lebanon when that war was started by Hezzbollah making raids into Israel. So how can Hezzbollah claim they were fighting for Lebanon? All they did was act out the will of Iran and cost many people in Lebanon and many Israelis their lives. 

It is the same with Hamas. They act out the will of their masters regardless of the cost to the people they are supposedly fighting for. 

The day the Palestinians take page from MLK and Ghandis books and become peacfull protesters, is the day Israel will really be in a world of shit.

as far as your single state solution, like I said, I just do not see it working, Better to keep the 2 sides apart I think.


----------



## dilloduck

Charles_Main said:


> Because I know the mind set of the Israeli people when it comes to Iran, and am pretty sure of Israels nuclear capabilities. If Iran were ever to attack Israel would wipe them off the face of the earth. The general mind set in Israel is Never again, refering to the mass murder of Jews in WWII of course. while many Israelis actually oppose many of their governments actions, they are almost of one mind on Iran. They are prepared to decimate any nation who attacks them, and generally feel they can count on no one, not even the US for support when push comes to shove.
> 
> Israel does have Nukes, and not some small atom bombs like Iran is trying to build but full fledged thermal Nuclear weapons in the 10 mega ton range.
> 
> I can only assume Iran is aware of this, and their threats are just bluster and not real.
> 
> I Hope anyways. A nuclear war in the middle east would screw us all.



I have no doubts of Israel's determination to fend off enemies yet they had their hands full in their recent engagement with Huzbullies. I can't imagine the world condemnation if the fling a nuke, whether it is warranted or not.


----------



## editec

Shogun said:


> It's beyond me how israel, as a nation, is allowed to hold an ethnic premium for citizenship anyway. Both peoples have history on that land. Giving it to one marginalizes the other.
> 
> 
> 
> Hence the problem, eh?
> 
> BOTH people _now_ have a valid claim to the entire land.
> 
> BOTH people are victims of history.
> 
> And only THEY can resolve the issue.
> 
> If the Christian and the Islamic nations had stayed the hell out of it, this problem would have been solved decades ago.
Click to expand...


----------



## Shogun

Kathianne said:


> Quite the contrary. Look at who and what.



I see the same thing you do, kath.  Im just not willing to swallow the martyr routine hook, line and sinker.


----------



## Shogun

editec said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's beyond me how israel, as a nation, is allowed to hold an ethnic premium for citizenship anyway. Both peoples have history on that land. Giving it to one marginalizes the other.
> 
> 
> 
> Hence the problem, eh?
> 
> BOTH people _now_ have a valid claim to the entire land.
> 
> BOTH people are victims of history.
> 
> And only THEY can resolve the issue.
> 
> If the Christian and the Islamic nations had stayed the hell out of it, this problem would have been solved decades ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, it's amazing that we demonize aryans for doing the exact same thing zionist ARE doing.  I don't agree with either.  They both have a valid claim to the land.  Like I said, favoring one over the other is pretty transparent.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Chris

Charles_Main said:


> Israel has long taken the land for peace approach, which of course is not working. Each time they give up land they are thanked with more suicide attacks and rockets. They have literally bent over backwards recently for peace, and each time it has brought nothing but more carnage.
> 
> As far as Iran being the Palestinians master. It is true. Follow the money.
> 
> Just as with hezzbollah in Lebanon. Iran funds them and calls the shots, Hamas acts out the will of Iran as much as they do their own will. Often at the cost of Palestinian lives.
> 
> The recent war between Israel and hezzbollah in Lebanon is proof of my point that they are doing Iran's will. Israel was not occupying one inch of Lebanon when that war was started by Hezzbollah making raids into Israel. So how can Hezzbollah claim they were fighting for Lebanon? All they did was act out the will of Iran and cost many people in Lebanon and many Israelis their lives.
> 
> It is the same with Hamas. They act out the will of their masters regardless of the cost to the people they are supposedly fighting for.
> 
> The day the Palestinians take page from MLK and Ghandis books and become peacfull protesters, is the day Israel will really be in a world of shit.
> 
> as far as your single state solution, like I said, I just do not see it working, Better to keep the 2 sides apart I think.



Land for peace approach is not working? What about Egypt?


----------



## sealybobo

Swamp Fox said:


> The problem with this nutjob is that he's not waiting for the apocalypse, he wants to start it.



You could say the same thing about Bush.  

I would be shocked with amadenijad if we didn't have a nut like Bush in charge.

ps he isn't  in charge of iran's military.


----------



## jreeves

sealybobo said:


> You could say the same thing about Bush.
> 
> I would be shocked with amadenijad if we didn't have a nut like Bush in charge.
> 
> ps he isn't  in charge of iran's military.



PS it doesn't matter....


----------



## Charles_Main

sealybobo said:


> You could say the same thing about Bush.
> 
> I would be shocked with amadenijad if we didn't have a nut like Bush in charge.
> 
> ps he isn't  in charge of iran's military.



You could say it, but you would be an idiot if you did.


----------



## jillian

Shogun said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's beyond me how israel, as a nation, is allowed to hold an ethnic premium for citizenship anyway. Both peoples have history on that land. Giving it to one marginalizes the other.
> 
> 
> Indeed, it's amazing that we demonize aryans for doing the exact same thing zionist ARE doing.  I don't agree with either.  They both have a valid claim to the land.  Like I said, favoring one over the other is pretty transparent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aryans? What about what Muslims are doing?
> 
> Or does it not make your little nazi analogy as well.......
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Charles_Main

Kirk said:


> Land for peace approach is not working? What about Egypt?



So what you point out the one time it has worked and ignore the times it has not?


----------



## Epsilon Delta

Charles_Main said:


> You could say it, but you would be an idiot if you did.



Uhrrr, actually he'd be quite right, and in that case, would you be the idiot? People seem to forget that Ahmedinejad doesn't really run shit in Iran. That's why they have a SUPREME LEADER, in case you forgot, who actually runs the show. It is actually quite surprising that the nutjob's empty words are trumpeted endlessly in the media while nobody ever, EVER have I heard a single reporter bring up the real commander's opinion, which Khomenei has stated before, the official stance is that Iran accepts the Arab Conference's decision on the 2 state solution based on the 1967 borders which has been repeatedly approved by every single country in the world at the UN except for, of course, the US and Israel.


----------



## editec

Charles_Main said:


> The day the Palestinians take page from MLK and Ghandis books and become peacfull protesters, is the day Israel will really be in a world of shit.


 
True dat.

Sadly I doubt that will ever happen because even though some Palestinians have long ago found some way to live with Isreal, the majority of them are living in conditions that breed anger and resentment.

They have their terrorists, we in american have our homies.  Not all that much difference really in my mind.

Young men, regardless of their religion or ethnic, are prone to violent solutions when they are thrwarted in the rest of their lives.

What's the unemployment rate, again?

50% or so?

Not a formula for peace, that.


----------



## Shogun

bullshit.


the day Pals take a peaceful route and use video cameras to document their troubles we'll hear about how no one can prove they didn't goad jews into beating the shit out of them with baseball bats..


oh wait.. that already happened.


----------



## Shogun

jillian said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aryans? What about what Muslims are doing?
> 
> Or does it not make your little nazi analogy as well.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> since when do we act like ANY muslim nation is reflective of the west?  So, if the USSR was around could you extend your blank check?  It's a laughable farce that you try so hard to deflect, jill.
> 
> 
> I mean hey, why should we have pounced on Germany in WW2 when some bushman in the fucking jungles of Africa were still conducting tribal holocausts?
> 
> 
> Indeed, you know damn well my nazi allusion sticks every time you insist that israel is a JEWISH state.  Your secret is no more impressive than Olmerts fear of democracy.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## Charles_Main

editec said:


> True dat.
> 
> 
> They have their terrorists, we in american have our homies.  Not all that much difference really in my mind.



Sigh, I don't even want to bother debating you on this.


----------



## jillian

editec said:


> True dat.
> 
> Sadly I doubt that will ever happen because even though some Palestinians have long ago found some way to live with Isreal, the majority of them are living in conditions that breed anger and resentment.
> 
> They have their terrorists, we in american have our homies.  Not all that much difference really in my mind.
> 
> Young men, regardless of their religion or ethnic, are prone to violent solutions when they are thrwarted in the rest of their lives.
> 
> What's the unemployment rate, again?
> 
> 50% or so?
> 
> Not a formula for peace, that.



And who's responsibility is their standard of living? The PA was given billions of dollars in American money to help the Palestinians. How much of it ended up in Suha Arafat's French bank accounts?

Who's responsibility was it that after the Oslo Accord was worked out, and after he took all of the U.S. aid for just going to the table, Arafat said he couldn't sign off because he'd be "drinking tea with Rabin"?

At some point, they needed to stop blowing themselves up to kill innocents. They'd have had a two-state solution a long time ago. Their economic sitution would have improved. They don't want that. Do you think they started off so differently from the Israelis? Israel spent its time irrigating; building; advancing scientifically; building universities; etc.

And that's after the UN gave the Arabs all of the high ground; all of the fortresses; all of the defensible positions; and after Israel got attacked seriatim by its neighbors.  And, if you recall, the soviets gave weapons to the Arabs but the US wouldn't give any to Israel after the division of the mandate.

So who's responsibility is the condition of the palestinians? How much is choice? How much is dead on hatred and ignorance?

You want to lay blame? Blame the PA.... blame the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem for allowing his nazi hatred of jews to help create this situation.

But you can't lay all of the blame for the palestinian condition at the feet of Israel. Does Israel always do everything right? Of course not. But they aren't the boogie man either.


----------



## Shogun

silly dirty goyim.. 

did he not hop high enough when you said jump?


If whitey held the same standard in the US and you allow in israel we'd be hearing your martyr routine for fucking miles.   Wash your hands Pilate.  Germany's population tried to play coy too.


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## jillian

Shogun said:


> silly dirty goyim..
> 
> did he not hop high enough when you said jump?
> 
> 
> If whitey held the same standard in the US and you allow in israel we'd be hearing your martyr routine for fucking miles.   Wash your hands Pilate.  Germany's population tried to play coy too.



ok, i'll play... I defy you to find anyplace where I ever expressed anything remotely like that.

You need to stop stamping your feet.... and you need to stop confusing issues.


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## Shogun

I was directing that at Charles Main, jill.


what, is your martyr quiver getting low?


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## jillian

Shogun said:


> I was directing that at Charles Main, jill.
> 
> 
> what, is your martyr quiver getting low?



Then you might want to try familiarizing yourself with the quote function because you posted your comment immediately following *my* post.


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## Shogun

eat me.  I'll take a play from your book and say that i'll post however I feel like it.


now, did you ever find that elusive "dead jews" quote?


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## Charles_Main

Epsilon Delta said:


> Uhrrr, actually he'd be quite right, and in that case, would you be the idiot? People seem to forget that Ahmedinejad doesn't really run shit in Iran. That's why they have a SUPREME LEADER, in case you forgot, who actually runs the show. It is actually quite surprising that the nutjob's empty words are trumpeted endlessly in the media while nobody ever, EVER have I heard a single reporter bring up the real commander's opinion, which Khomenei has stated before, the official stance is that Iran accepts the Arab Conference's decision on the 2 state solution based on the 1967 borders which has been repeatedly approved by every single country in the world at the UN except for, of course, the US and Israel.



If you actually think Ahmedinejad holds not sway you are indeed foolish.


----------



## Shogun

Charles_Main said:


> If you actually think Ahmedinejad holds not sway you are indeed foolish.



toss out another ad hominem as rebuttal, dude.  It works better than trouncing his point with evidence, it seems.


----------



## Charles_Main

Shogun said:


> toss out another ad hominem as rebuttal, dude.  It works better than trouncing his point with evidence, it seems.



Yes, because you never do that.


----------



## Shogun

Charles_Main said:


> Yes, because you never do that.



Oh I do.. but I also back up my point with evidence beyond the standard martyr routine and goofy fucking accusation of antisemitism.


like this:









now, would you like to make another snarky fucking comment about germany's conquests and how winning military battles validates the treatment of dominated populations?


----------



## Charles_Main

Shogun said:


> Oh I do.. but I also back up my point with evidence beyond the standard martyr routine and goofy fucking accusation of antisemitism.
> 
> 
> like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now, would you like to make another snarky fucking comment about germany's conquests and how winning military battles validates the treatment of dominated populations?



I have never said any such thing, and I could show you a map where germany was broken and divided after losing that war. However I think I will let you have your delusions, Debating with the closed minded is pointless.

But do have a good day, Me I am gonna take my kid outside and let him swim i in his pool awhile, It is to damn hot for arguing on line.


----------



## Shogun

Charles_Main said:


> I have never said any such thing, and I could show you a map where germany was broken and divided after losing that war. However I think I will let you have your delusions, Debating with the closed minded is pointless.
> 
> But do have a good day, Me I am gonna take my kid outside and let him swim i in his pool awhile, It is to damn hot for arguing on line.



Yea.. broken after the US stepped in.. But, until then, GERMANY had europe in a headlock.  Evidence, bitch.  it's antisemitic!


run away, dude.  it's cool.  racists have swimming pools too.  Segregated ones but hey..


----------



## Charles_Main

Shogun said:


> Yea.. broken after the US stepped in.. But, until then, GERMANY had europe in a headlock.  Evidence, bitch.  it's antisemitic!
> 
> 
> run away, dude.  it's cool.  racists have swimming pools too.  Segregated ones but hey..



yes yes I am a racist now. Man you are a piece of garbage, plain and simple. I know you are upset the Nazis lost and all but geesh.

Oh and for everyone else reading this. I am just using Shogs own pathetic Tactics against him. If you do not agree with me, you are a racist piece of Garbage. Read his ideas on Israel and who is a racist becomes crystal clear.


----------



## Epsilon Delta

Charles_Main said:


> If you actually think Ahmedinejad holds not sway you are indeed foolish.



Ahmedinejad is a joke, man. He holds some sway, yeah, but it's like quoting the Minister of Interior on foreign policy matters. I'm sure you'd find a wealth of difference between the opinion of government functionaries anywhere in the world, but if you want to talk foreign policy, then it's the real leader's call, not some puppet. Ahmedinejads may come and go, but Khomeini stays till he drops, and he's already taken the stance- 1967s borders, two-state solution.


----------



## Charles_Main

Epsilon Delta said:


> Ahmedinejad is a joke, man. He holds some sway, yeah, but it's like quoting the Minister of Interior on foreign policy matters. I'm sure you'd find a wealth of difference between the opinion of government functionaries anywhere in the world, but if you want to talk foreign policy, then it's the real leader's call, not some puppet. Ahmedinejads may come and go, but Khomeini stays till he drops, and he's already taken the stance- 1967s borders, two-state solution.




Actually I think he hold more sway over Muslims in other countries than in his own. He is the hero of Radical Islamic movements around the world.


----------



## Shogun

Charles_Main said:


> yes yes I am a racist now. Man you are a piece of garbage, plain and simple. I know you are upset the Nazis lost and all but geesh.
> 
> Oh and for everyone else reading this. I am just using Shogs own pathetic Tactics against him. If you do not agree with me, you are a racist piece of Garbage. Read his ideas on Israel and who is a racist becomes crystal clear.



im not upset that nazis lost at all.  I freely admit that their racist aryian standard goes against humanity.  Can you admit the same about your zionist standard?

Face it, puss.  if you had anything to offer, like the evidence above, you'd have posted it.. BUT, in typical zionist fashion all you can do is resort to the accusation of the hatred of jews.  I bet you used the same excuse on your midterms and finals every time you got an answer wrong.  

I think you are a piece of shit too.  So what.  Maybe you should call aipac and hunt me down nuremburg style.  Anything less would indicate antisemitism, im sure.

And no, you haven't used my tactics against me, dude.  You see, I sent you into a foaming frenzy with EVIDENCE like the european map during ww2... What have you posted other than the same ole predictable zionist knee jerk reaction to any dirty goyim that DARES question zion?

nadda.  zilch.  not a goddamn thing.

Indeed, READ my ideals on isreal.  If you think a single state solutions where every person, PAL OR JEW, gets equal input (like we here in the US) boils down to antismetism then so be it.  "Crystal Clear" seems to be yiddish for "wahh wahhhhh, Im gonna call you an anti semite, WAHHHHHHHHHH!"


----------



## Epsilon Delta

the same radical islamic movements that some 0.00001% of Muslims follow? To be fair, the US and Israel have probably had more sway in recruiting radical islamists than Ahmedinejad would ever hope of.


----------



## Shogun

Epsilon Delta said:


> the same radical islamic movements that some 0.00001% of Muslims follow? To be fair, the US and Israel have probably had more sway in recruiting radical islamists than Ahmedinejad would ever hope of.



OH shit.. well dude.. I hope you like that nice Scarlet A you are about to get handed to you...


----------



## Charles_Main

Again I am not sure how my many stated positions on Israel qualify as Zionist, but then I could care less. Think what ever you want about me, but saying it does not make it true.


----------



## Shogun

Charles_Main said:


> Again I am not sure how my many stated positions on Israel qualify as Zionist, but then I could care less. Think what ever you want about me, but saying it does not make it true.



ditto, motherfucker.


and, what makes you a zionist is your racist standard for israeli ethnic participation.  

Feel free to miss the irony of your post though as your antisemite button is stuck on repeat.


----------



## Charles_Main

Shogun said:


> ditto, motherfucker.
> 
> 
> and, what makes you a zionist is your racist standard for israeli ethnic participation.
> 
> Feel free to miss the irony of your post though as your antisemite button is stuck on repeat.



Dude where have I ever even stated my position on Israels ethnic participation?

Feel free to keep labeling me as well.


----------



## Ravi

Charles_Main said:


> Dude where have I ever even stated my position on Israels ethnic participation?
> 
> Feel free to keep labeling me as well.



Hey, aren't you part Jewish? Of course you are a racist bahstard, because Shog says so. You only get to rule your country be religious law if it's Islamic law.


----------



## Charles_Main

Ravi said:


> Hey, aren't you part Jewish? Of course you are a racist bahstard, because Shog says so. You only get to rule your country be religious law if it's Islamic law.



Oh now I get it.


----------



## Shogun

Charles_Main said:


> Dude where have I ever even stated my position on Israels ethnic participation?
> 
> Feel free to keep labeling me as well.



oh good grief.  were we go with the victim routine.


indeed, calling me an antisemite more often tha making a valid point sure does gel with your victimhood!


----------



## Shogun

Ravi said:


> Hey, aren't you part Jewish? Of course you are a racist bahstard, because Shog says so. You only get to rule your country be religious law if it's Islamic law.



it's not because he's jewish.. it's because he doesnt give a fuck about non-jews who also have a claim to zion.  


But it's cute to see that you still wear your cheerleader outfit and pom pons, ravi.  i guess it beats making a valid point.


lemme guess.. FRESH from crying about labels ole chuck will bust out the...


----------



## Shogun

Charles_Main said:


> Oh now I get it.



THERE IT IS!





like Ive said.. predictable.  now cry about assumptions again, dude.. pointing out the irony of your crybaby posts is kinda like throwing darts at a wall of balloons at the county fair.


----------



## Paulie

What I find most ironic, is that Chuck here went out of his way to state that he would not be discussing Israeli matters because he was part Jewish, and since then he's been neck deep.


----------



## dilloduck

Paulitics said:


> What I find most ironic, is that Chuck here went out of his way to state that he would not be discussing Israeli matters because he was part Jewish, and since then he's been neck deep.



He was reminded of his 1/8th jewish obligation and all of the sudden everything was kosher.


----------



## Ravi

Shogun said:


> it's not because he's jewish..



Yet oddly enough you aren't calling me a racist Zionist. Would you if I told you I was Jewish? I'm thinking yes, you would.


----------

