# Florida Judge voids FLORIDA GOP created congressional map



## Statistikhengst (Jul 12, 2014)

This is a big story. A REAL big story, and one with some far-reaching implications:


TALLAHASSEE: Judge throws out Florida's congressional map - Florida - MiamiHerald.com




> TALLAHASSEE -- *A judge threw out Floridas congressional redistricting map Thursday, ruling that the Legislature allowed for a secret, organized campaign by partisan operatives to subvert the redistricting process in violation of the state Constitution.*
> 
> Leon County Circuit Court Judge Terry Lewis ruled that *two of the states 27 districts are invalid and must be redrawn, along with any other districts affected by them*, to bring the map into compliance with the states new Fair District amendments.
> 
> ...





Judge invalidates two Florida congressional districts | Tampa Bay Times




> Lewis drew no conclusions that House Speaker Will Weatherford, former House Speaker Dean Cannon and Senate President Don Gaetz were aware of the scheme, *but he raised doubts that they were not in some way complicit. The judge detailed the involvement of Cannon's aide, Kirk Pepper, and repeated evidence that came out at trial about Pepper forwarding draft maps to GOP operative Marc Reichelderfer.*
> 
> Lewis also noted that *legislative leaders and the political operatives destroyed almost all of their emails and other documents related to redistricting and concluded that the circumstantial evidence surrounding all of those developments, and the evidence that the consultants attempted to influence the same districts he has found problematic, proved the GOP operatives were trying to influence the process.*
> 
> ...




Florida's electoral map in flux after court ruling | Reuters




> "The court found that the Republican consultants made a mockery of fair districting and that there was a secretive, organized campaign, a shadow process of map-drawing," Macnab added.
> 
> The was the latest development in a protracted legal fight that began after the state House and Senate redrew Florida's congressional districts in 2012. Republicans control both houses of the state legislature.
> 
> ...




A Florida judge just voided the state?s congressional districts. Here?s what you need to know. - The Washington Post










> Lewis singles out the *5th District*, saying it is *"visually not compact, bizarrely shaped, and does not follow traditional political boundaries as it winds from Jacksonville to Orlando." Its finger-like appendage jutting into Seminole County "was done with the intent of benefitting the Republican Party."* The 5th District was originally drawn in the 90s with the intent of creating a majority-minority district, and by extension a safe Democratic seat. Democrat Corinne Brown has held that seat since 1992.
> 
> But as I've described in detail before, when you concentrate minority voting power in one district, you necessarily dilute it everywhere else. You end up with district-level segregation: minority districts for minority voters. Judge Lewis notes this in the Florida case -- the appendage  from District 5 going into Seminole County had the net effect of increasing the minority population in District 5, and decreasing it in neighboring District 7, making that district more friendly to Republicans...
> 
> ...




The WAPO article links to the judge's ruling, but I could not get the link to work:

Navigator

The site may have gotten overloaded. I will update as soon as possible.


*An important detail:* this ruling has no effect on the 2014 mid-terms, but it will have an effect on the 2016 elections.



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And a personal note, on this thread over electioneering, a very large OP that covers the first five postings:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/clean-debate-zone/333884-electioneering.html#post8424470

I gave recommendations for how to do fair and impartial redistricting in all 50 states.

When you read what is happening in Florida (and could well happen in other states), I think that the argument I made has more and more merit with time.

Also, I want to make a specific note that in terms of Gerrymandering, the Democratic Party is often every bit as guilty as the Republican Party.  This is a phenomenon that absolutely must stop.


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## Stephanie (Jul 12, 2014)

ah yes, you must find him a rock star? gives you thrills, orgasams? 

how about the supreme court? When did we ALLOW any judge to make policy, override the will of the voters, etc in this country?

and why doesn't it bother you?


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 12, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> ah yes, you must find him a rock star?





Do you actually ever read for content, Stephanie?

No one is a rock star for me. 

This is news.

Learn to discern, like adults do. The information is all there in the OP. 
And you might note the disclaimer at the end.


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## Stephanie (Jul 12, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> > ah yes, you must find him a rock star?
> ...



naaa, I don't take anything from you as "adult"
but answer my questions? why are you in favor of allowing lowly judges to overturn the will of the people? where is that in their POWERS?


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## eagle1462010 (Jul 12, 2014)

Perhaps the map down in Miami needs to be looked at as well then.............

I'd agree area 5 looks retarded.


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## Stephanie (Jul 12, 2014)

It's against the gop so it's AOK with you


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Jul 12, 2014)

What those on the partisan right fail to understand that the issue is not gerrymandering per se, but the fact that gerrymandering in Florida violates the state's constitution.


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 12, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> Statistikhengst said:
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> > Stephanie said:
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What makes this judge "lowly"?

The ruling is within his powers as a judge. It's the law of the land.

Why are Righties like you so against the law of the land?

The PEOPLE did not decide on new congressional districts. A political team, in this case, a GOP team, did.

Really, Stephanie, learn to read for content. It would make your life so much easier.


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 12, 2014)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> What those on the partisan right fail to understand that the issue is not gerrymandering per se, but the fact that gerrymandering in Florida violates the state's constitution.





Yepp.


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## eagle1462010 (Jul 12, 2014)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> What those on the partisan right fail to understand that the issue is not gerrymandering per se, but the fact that gerrymandering in Florida violates the state's constitution.



LOL

It's not about gerrymandering but it is...............


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## Stephanie (Jul 12, 2014)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> What those on the partisan right fail to understand that the issue is not gerrymandering per se, but the fact that gerrymandering in Florida violates the state's constitution.



Oooo, gerrymandering doesn't bother you partisan HACKS IF it  get people like, Jackson Lee, Pelosi, etc ..THEY have it SEWED up without fear of anyone running against them,. But damn them Republican
and I'm no favor of EITHER PARTY corrupting our political process


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 12, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> > What those on the partisan right fail to understand that the issue is not gerrymandering *per se*, but the fact that gerrymandering in Florida violates the state's constitution.
> ...



He wrote "per se", meaning that there is more to it than just Gerrymandering itself.

You do understand that, right?

Then again, maybe you didn't understand it.  This would not surprise me at all.

The judge is saying that the GOP violated the FL constitution by the way it redistricted 2 of 27 districts, which means that those two and any adjacent districts that would also be affected must be redrawn.

Did you understand that now?


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## Stephanie (Jul 12, 2014)

stats, you are nothing more than clay



partisan hack tool in my book

it's shameful really


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 12, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> stats, you are nothing more than clay
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Have anything to say about the information in the OP, or are you just here to attack members of USMB?

Still didn't read the disclaimer at the end of the OP, what?


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## eagle1462010 (Jul 12, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> eagle1462010 said:
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> > C_Clayton_Jones said:
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I understood per se, and was joking...........and when I need an education from you I'll ask for it.

http://censusvalidator.blob.core.wi...ticipation/Redistricting_-_By_the_Numbers.pdf

ideal populations of districts................for Florida...........

Perhaps explaining some weird shapes...........in order to get as close as possible to the numbers.


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## eagle1462010 (Jul 12, 2014)

My Congressional District

All of the populations are in the same ranges across the state.


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## Nyvin (Jul 12, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> stats, you are nothing more than clay
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Stephanie has nothing constructive to say...yet again....big surprise there.


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## whitehall (Jul 12, 2014)

How does a circut court judge have the power to order congressional districts changed? Oh yeah, guess which political party the governor who appointed judge Terry Lewis to the bench belonged to? Hint, it wasn't the GOP.


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 12, 2014)

lol....


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## Dot Com (Jul 12, 2014)

STOP WHINING/DERAILING STAPHANIE!!! [MENTION=1668]Stephanie[/MENTION] 

As to the OP, Republicorp always seems to be up to some chicanery of some sort in "Heaven's Waiting Room" AKA- Florida. Katherine Harris anyone? Katherine Harris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## whitehall (Jul 12, 2014)

For the record the most notorious gerrymandered district in history was created by the NC democrat majority in the early 1990's. In some areas NC district 12 is no wider than the interstate. Also for the record Fla circut court judge Terry Lewis was appointed by democrat gov Chiles.


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 12, 2014)

whitehall said:


> For the record the most notorious gerrymandered district in history was created by the NC democrat majority in the early 1990's. In some areas NC district 12 is no wider than the interstate. Also for the record Fla circut court judge Terry Lewis was appointed by democrat gov Chiles.




On this point, you are probably quite correct.

But this thread is not about NC-12 from the 1990's, now is it.

This thread is about a current happening RIGHT NOW.

Is this the best the Right has to offer? To deflect? To relativize?

In the OP, I wrote very clearly at the end that the Democratic Party is often every bit as guilty of Gerrymandering as the GOP, so quit the fucking bellyaching and actually take time to read and OP for once.

In other words, righties: grow up and learn to debate like adults.


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## PoliticalTorch (Jul 12, 2014)

*Protecting the GOP; E-mails destroyed; Unfair advantage in favor of Republicans; Secrecy....*

So, given the shenanigans going on in this redistricting case with gerrymandering in favor of Republicans as the judge ruled, there can be no doubt that we are seeing yet another example of what happens in Fla. as we saw during the presidential elections between Gore and Bush where even though Gore was to be awarded the presidency, it went to Bush instead. And the final say was with the U.S. Republican-led Supreme Court. So, it's Deja Vu all over again with Republicans caught with their hand in the cookie jar yet again! 

*Their Republican Congressional Map plan therefore was*




*and*


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## Yurt (Jul 12, 2014)

i doubt statist would have created this thread if it was about democrats.  he admits both parties are guilty of this, but of course, he only cares when it is about republicans.


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## Nyvin (Jul 12, 2014)

whitehall said:


> For the record the most notorious gerrymandered district in history was created by the NC democrat majority in the early 1990's. In some areas NC district 12 is no wider than the interstate. Also for the record Fla circut court judge Terry Lewis was appointed by democrat gov Chiles.



Who cares which party is doing it???  The bottom line is it's wrong and shouldn't be done!


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## Yurt (Jul 12, 2014)

Nyvin said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > For the record the most notorious gerrymandered district in history was created by the NC democrat majority in the early 1990's. In some areas NC district 12 is no wider than the interstate. Also for the record Fla circut court judge Terry Lewis was appointed by democrat gov Chiles.
> ...



statist cares very much which party is doing it.  hence his thread title and laser focus on only the GOP.


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 12, 2014)

No, that is not true, and Yurt is just trolling, as usual. 

As a matter of fact, I went out of my way to include information in the OP about Corinne Brown, a *DEMOCRAT*, who is also in on this.

It's a story that could have far-reaching implications in the house races in 2016.


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## Yurt (Jul 12, 2014)

statiststalker, your OP and the title are clear where your focus is:  on the GOP

you may think people are stupid, but they are smarter than you


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## Yurt (Jul 12, 2014)

> This is a big story. A REAL big story,


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## Missourian (Jul 12, 2014)

I'd void it too...district 5 is a joke.

Now,  who is going to void Maryland's far more hilarious DNC gerrymandering?


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## Nyvin (Jul 12, 2014)

Missourian said:


> I'd void it too...district 5 is a joke.
> 
> Now,  who is going to void Maryland's far more hilarious DNC gerrymandering?



I don't consider it worse then Florida's since it really just covers up 1 GOP seat with 1 Dem seat.

But anyway...go ahead and scrap Maryland's gerrymander too!   Get rid of all of them,  it doesn't matter which party does it, the fact is that it happens.


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## RetiredGySgt (Jul 12, 2014)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> What those on the partisan right fail to understand that the issue is not gerrymandering per se, but the fact that gerrymandering in Florida violates the state's constitution.



Yet in NC we have 2 districts that violate the State Constitution made by FEDERAL Judges. I notice no complaint by you because they are democrat districts.


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## Nyvin (Jul 12, 2014)

RetiredGySgt said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> > What those on the partisan right fail to understand that the issue is not gerrymandering per se, but the fact that gerrymandering in Florida violates the state's constitution.
> ...



North Carolina has a solid base of Democratic voters....split the districts up anyway you like...the Democrats are still going to win "some" seats.

Given how compact the blue districts are already...I would consider the status quo in NC the best the GOP is going to get.


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 12, 2014)

Missourian said:


> I'd void it too...district 5 is a joke.
> 
> Now,  who is going to void Maryland's far more hilarious DNC gerrymandering?




I agree with you - it is absolutely ridiculous and needs to go.
The only difference is, unfortunately, the Maryland law was not broken when that district was so grotesquely formed - another reason to rethink federalism vis-a-vis electioneeering.

See the last part of my OP, please.


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 12, 2014)

RetiredGySgt said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> > What those on the partisan right fail to understand that the issue is not gerrymandering per se, but the fact that gerrymandering in Florida violates the state's constitution.
> ...




Please name the two districts (by number) and the specific violations.  I will research it.


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## RetiredGySgt (Jul 12, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
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I believe it is 12 and 10 Or might be 12 and 1. Both were designed to get blacks elected and both were mandated by the feds. Further one of the bed wetters listed them as republican gerrymandering because they were to stupid to research the districts.

12 is the worst it stretches along an interstate for like 80 miles. he other is a big blob.


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 12, 2014)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Statistikhengst said:
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What, you don't even know the district numbers for sure, and you expect me to take you seriously? Really?

Let's start over again.

Please name the two districts (by number) and the specific violations.  I will research it.


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## RetiredGySgt (Jul 12, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
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MORON. they are 12 and 1 I just looked.


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 12, 2014)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Statistikhengst said:
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And the specific violations?  Why have they not made it into the news?


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## eagle1462010 (Jul 12, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
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> > Statistikhengst said:
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LMAO!

Because you haven't deemed it worthy yet.

LOL


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 12, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Statistikhengst said:
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> > RetiredGySgt said:
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Ok, let's try that again. What are the EXACT violations that you claim make these two redistrictings illegal?

Don't forget, YOU are the one who has made the claim.


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## eagle1462010 (Jul 12, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> eagle1462010 said:
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I didn't claim it, another poster did.  I'm laughing at you and your bigoted remarks..

Are you sure you are not German.  They can be snobs ya know.


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 12, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Statistikhengst said:
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You are right. Retired Sergeant made the claim and then you butt in, which is ok.
I am used to extreme Rightwingers like you acting this way, it's pretty par for the course.

Carry on.


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## eagle1462010 (Jul 12, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> eagle1462010 said:
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Not a problem...........

To the original thread, while the map is weird looking, the population per district is within the guidelines of the state.  As I posted back up sites for that data.

Where is the absolute truth of this gerrymandering as there is no way you are gonna get the populations to match without some weird maps.


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 12, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Statistikhengst said:
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Not necessarily. With a computer, equipped only with population (voting age) data and geography (mountains, lakes, rivers, etc), you can create districts with much more logical boundaries.


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## eagle1462010 (Jul 12, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> eagle1462010 said:
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Who decides and who writes the programs............................


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 12, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Statistikhengst said:
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Very good question, but this is really the kind of data you cannot fuck around with. For each state, a board of people, split along party lines, could input the data:

population
geography

That's it. With people of all parties looking over each other's shoulders, hanky-panky is pretty much precluded.

Nothing in the data to do with party affiliation or race or creed or religion.

Then, based on those two parameters alone, the computer draws logical districts.


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## JimH52 (Jul 12, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> ah yes, you must find him a rock star? gives you thrills, orgasams?
> 
> how about the supreme court? When did we ALLOW any judge to make policy, override the will of the voters, etc in this country?
> 
> and why doesn't it bother you?



Oh!  Referring to Bush vs. Gore are you?


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## Toro (Jul 12, 2014)

District 5 is awful.  It should be redrawn.

District 10 doesn't look bad.

The rest of the state looks fine.


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 12, 2014)

Toro said:


> District 5 is awful.  It should be redrawn.
> 
> District 10 doesn't look bad.
> 
> The rest of the state looks fine.




I assume you are talking about FL.

Yes, FL-05 looks terrible. There is no reason for this kind of shit.


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## RetiredGySgt (Jul 12, 2014)

Yet you have no problem with NC district 12. I wonder why? Could it be because the Feds forced it on NC so a black could get elected? Same with district 1.

The State Constitution requires that where possible whole Counties must be in a single district. By the way thanks to the violation in 1 and 12 the republicans got Court approval to do the same in 2011 for the whole State. A 3 Judge panel ruled no violation for the current arrangement by the State legislature.

So thanks to you bed wetters and your ignorance the republicans followed suit.


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## daveman (Jul 12, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > For the record the most notorious gerrymandered district in history was created by the NC democrat majority in the early 1990's. In some areas NC district 12 is no wider than the interstate. Also for the record Fla circut court judge Terry Lewis was appointed by democrat gov Chiles.
> ...


"Bush!  BUUUUUSH!!"


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## daveman (Jul 12, 2014)

PoliticalTorch said:


> *Protecting the GOP; E-mails destroyed; Unfair advantage in favor of Republicans; Secrecy....*
> 
> So, given the shenanigans going on in this redistricting case with gerrymandering in favor of Republicans as the judge ruled, there can be no doubt that we are seeing yet another example of what happens in Fla. as we saw during the presidential elections between Gore and Bush where even though Gore was to be awarded the presidency, it went to Bush instead. And the final say was with the U.S. Republican-led Supreme Court. So, it's Deja Vu all over again with Republicans caught with their hand in the cookie jar yet again!
> 
> ...



Gore lost, boy.  Get over it.


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## Missourian (Jul 12, 2014)

Nyvin said:


> Missourian said:
> 
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> > I'd void it too...district 5 is a joke.
> ...



Agreed,  scrap them all.

It would be nice if you could just trust politicians to do the right thing...but since you can't trust any of them outside your sight and hearing range,  what kind of ironclad legislation could be proposed.

Something along the line of "The length of longest possible NE to SW line of measurement Congressional District boundary and of the length of longest possible SE to NW line of measurement Congressional District boundary at the midpoint of and perpendicular to the NE to SW line must not vary more than (blank) percent without the consent of 3/4ths vote of the legislature.  the only exception being a circumstance where two opposing Congressional District boundaries are also boundaries of the state."

This isn't good enough,  but it is a starting point.


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## PoliticalTorch (Jul 12, 2014)

daveman said:


> PoliticalTorch said:
> 
> 
> > *Protecting the GOP; E-mails destroyed; Unfair advantage in favor of Republicans; Secrecy....*
> ...


Yeah, but with a little help from your friends.


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## daveman (Jul 12, 2014)

Missourian said:


> Nyvin said:
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## daveman (Jul 12, 2014)

PoliticalTorch said:


> daveman said:
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Yes...the voters.


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## RetiredGySgt (Jul 12, 2014)

PoliticalTorch said:


> daveman said:
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Bush won every RECOUNT, including those after the election done by biased sources. Further the Supreme Court ruled 7 to 2 that Bush was right that Gore recount as done was illegal.

Perhaps you can explain HOW THE GUY WITH THE LEAST NUMBER OF VOTES OF THE TWO SOMEHOW REALLY WON?


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## Missourian (Jul 12, 2014)

Nyvin said:


> Missourian said:
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> > I'd void it too...district 5 is a joke.
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daveman said:


> Missourian said:
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That made me 

Sorry Daveman...my mistake.


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## RetiredGySgt (Jul 12, 2014)

North Carolina 12th district 
North Carolina's 12th congressional district - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

North Carolina 1st district

North Carolina's 1st congressional district - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And as to why we have both of them as is.....

http://www.senate.leg.state.mn.us/departments/scr/redist/redsum/ncsum.htm


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## Nyvin (Jul 12, 2014)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Yet you have no problem with NC district 12. I wonder why? Could it be because the Feds forced it on NC so a black could get elected? Same with district 1.
> 
> The State Constitution requires that where possible whole Counties must be in a single district. By the way thanks to the violation in 1 and 12 the republicans got Court approval to do the same in 2011 for the whole State. A 3 Judge panel ruled no violation for the current arrangement by the State legislature.
> 
> So thanks to you bed wetters and your ignorance the republicans followed suit.



Districts 1 and 12 work out to the Republicans favor.   They pack the democrats into the two districts so all the surrounding districts are safely Republican.    It was the GOP who designed the maps in 2011.   

No matter how you slice up the map the Democrats are still going to win "some" of the districts in a state like North Carolina that is pretty fricking close to even partisan-wise with 13 districts.

District 12 is D+26....District 1 is D+19....That's probably somewhere in the range of ~80% or ~85% democrat.    Now imagine spreading all those Democrat votes around the surrounding districts if they weren't there or weren't drawn the way they are....Do you REALLY think NO democrats would get elected??????   (BTW the MOST Red leaning district in the state is *R+13*.....)


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## RetiredGySgt (Jul 13, 2014)

Nyvin said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Yet you have no problem with NC district 12. I wonder why? Could it be because the Feds forced it on NC so a black could get elected? Same with district 1.
> ...



The Federal Government enforced the illegal creation of 1 and 12 and now since they are allow3ed the Republicans have followed suit with their own Gerrymandering. And guess what? The Courts accepted it. Why? Because they have precedent due to the dems. And those two districts are about blacks they just happen to be dems.


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 13, 2014)

RetiredGySgt said:


> *Yet you have no problem with NC district 12*. I wonder why? Could it be because the Feds forced it on NC so a black could get elected? Same with district 1.
> 
> The State Constitution requires that where possible whole Counties must be in a single district. By the way thanks to the violation in 1 and 12 the republicans got Court approval to do the same in 2011 for the whole State. A 3 Judge panel ruled no violation for the current arrangement by the State legislature.
> 
> So thanks to you bed wetters and your ignorance the republicans followed suit.




No, you just lied, big time, [MENTION=5176]RetiredGySgt[/MENTION].

I never said that I had no problem with NC-12, ever.

I asked you to provide the reason for why you say it is illegal, and until this time, you have provided no such reason. As a matter of fact, you have still not provided actual information, including litigation material.

In other words, on a thread that has _nothing_ to do to NC-12 at all, but I see the connection due to the issue of redistricting/gerrymandering, I went out of my way to give you a chance to provide information, and then you bitch like a little schoolchild. What is this with extreme Right-Wing Conservatives and their never-ending need for deflection and relativism? Are your arguments so weak that you cannot say anything else?

Care to try again?


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 13, 2014)

Missourian said:


> Nyvin said:
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> > Missourian said:
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I concur with you and have been saying for years that gerrymandering should be illegal.

But it is an issue of Federalism.

Again, I point to a HUGE elections thread I created in January, one where the OP spans 5 postings.  And I wrote in specific about redistricting:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/clean-debate-zone/333884-electioneering.html#post8424470



> With redistricting done at a national level with a Super-Computer with only three parameters:
> 
> -State borders
> -population
> ...




-and-

http://www.usmessageboard.com/clean-debate-zone/333884-electioneering.html#post8424480



> -Automatic voter registration for all citizens when they reach the age of 18, with notification of such and information about polling place per postcard. The ID card for voting would be an exact duplicate of the first page of an American Passport, which means when you get a voter ID, it is easy to also apply for your passport at the same time and all of these things can be processed at BMV or SOS offices throughout the land. Oregon is currently the first state in the Union to seriously consider automatic voter registration, starting next year.
> 
> -The same Super-computer that did the redistricting also does a computation as to how many voting machines and precincts are necessary in order to get voting done by 9:30 pm and basta, done!
> 
> ...





It is because of Federalism that we have this gerrymandering mess, and there is no real reason for it, other than the desire for a naked power-grab on the part of the two parties, depending on the state we are talking about.


The KEY difference is, each state also gets to decide the exact rules for redistricting and those rules are not identical from state to state - again, because of Federalism, so what is obviously illegal in Florida may perhaps not be illegal in Maryland, or it may be illegal in North Carolina, but for different reasons.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Jul 13, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > *Yet you have no problem with NC district 12*. I wonder why? Could it be because the Feds forced it on NC so a black could get elected? Same with district 1.
> ...



Actual you retard I provided just that. But since NC 12 is National news I know you have heard of it. This thread is about Gerrymandering and NC 12 is a perfect example of it. But you don't care because it benefits Democrats.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Jul 13, 2014)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...




This thread is about the decision of a Florida judge about redistricting in 2 CDs of Florida, which he has declared as being in violation of the Florida constitution, and, unless this decision is overturned, those two districts (and adjacent districts) will have to be redrawn for the 2016 cycle.  Gerrymandering is a _sub-theme_ of the thread out of necessity. 

Unlike you, I see no reason to insult another member. And unlike you, I can discern.

You have still provided not actual linkage to the litigation about NC-12, now have you?

What in the world is this extreme Right-Wing _laziness_ about making a claim and then not having the energy to back it up? Are your fingers broken?

If you care to make a thread about NC-12, I will _gladly_ respond to it. Otherwise, all you are doing is trolling here in order to deflect from the actual OP.

Is there not even one extreme Right-Winger out there who can actually stay on topic without getting all pissed-off and insulting?

The piss-poor, low-level of Right-Wing input on so many threads here in USMB is becoming downright depressing. It's like debating a bunch of Kindergarden children.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jul 13, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Statistikhengst said:
> ...



Look in the mirror when you say that.  Your ego writes many of your posts and your arrogant responses cause people to fire back at you.

Your side of these boards flames threads all the time.  People return fire.  Are you criticizing them as well, or do you stick to the party line.

The OP is about one case, but looking at other areas of problem fits the OP because it is similar.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Jul 13, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



My side?  You don't even know which side is my side. I am a round peg and do not fit into the square hole you are thinking of.

And yes, your mention of NC-12 indeed is related, which is why I took time to respond. But arrogant? *No*. If you think that asking someone to back up his claim is arrogance, then go out to the playground with the other kids and leave real debate for adults.

It's time for extreme Right-Wing Conservatives to reach down, ascertain whether of not they actually have balls in their pants, and debate like adults. I am sick to death of the bellyaching from Righties, apparently, it is the only thing they have going right now. 

Time is precious, and I do not suffer fools gladly.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jul 13, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Statistikhengst said:
> ...



BS

Your posts to the other poster were egomaniac shit.  Again you sound like you are really a German. 

We are sick of your BS as well.  Ain't that skippy........Now go back and stroke your ego on that rep fest thread or something.............

I've agreed that the map in Florida looks retarded.  So have most of the other posters.  So it seems people agree that it should be remapped.  

So basically the thread is over anyway.


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 13, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...




"We"?





So, how many people are actually inside your head?


Actually, no, the thread is not over. The fat lady has not warmed up yet. Plus, much to my chagrin, not one poster (aside from myself) mentioned that this court decision could possibly be overturned by a higher court, but interestingly enough, the FL GOP is looking awfully sheepish right now.

Gee, I wonder why that would be the case? Hmmmm.... Now, why would that be?

So, if it is litigated further, then this thread lives.

Besides, threads can live forever. Or at least as long that the interweebs are here.

So, in spite of the fact that you are, like so many other extreme Right-Wing basers, nasty as fuck, I wish you good health and long life.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jul 13, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Statistikhengst said:
> ...



Whatever.  You've got business to deal with.  Back to the rep threads so you can further inflate that ego of yours.  Get to it.


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 13, 2014)

Tsk, tsk. 

Oh, well, maybe I can find a bona-fide Conservative who can actually debate without blowing a gasket.

Hope springs eternal.


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## Nyvin (Jul 13, 2014)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



NC-12 does not benefit democrats in anyway at all....

In 2012, the Democrats won 50.6% of the house votes in North Carolina....but they only won 4 of 13 seats...that's 31% of the seats.   The reason why the won the popular vote for house but won so few seats is specifically because the GOP gerrymandered the seats in 2011 using 12, 1 and 4.    In 2010 they won 7 out of 13 seats, roughly in line with their popular vote.    In 2012 it suddenly changes to 4 seats with roughly the same number of votes...the only thing that changed was the map.

Trying to make NC-12 or NC-1 something that benefits democrats is idiotic.


----------



## PoliticalTorch (Jul 13, 2014)

daveman said:


> PoliticalTorch said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...


Wrong! The Republican U.S. Supreme Court made the_ final_ decision. So you're  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Be Very Sure To READ This!

Yes, Bush v. Gore Did Steal the Election -- NYMag


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Jul 13, 2014)

RetiredGySgt said:


> North Carolina 12th district
> North Carolina's 12th congressional district - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> North Carolina 1st district
> ...



I guess you missed this post as you cried about Republicans and ignored democrats.


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## RetiredGySgt (Jul 13, 2014)

PoliticalTorch said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalTorch said:
> ...



Once again you dumb ass, 7 of 9 AGREED that the recount as conducted was illegal. Further Bush won every completed recount done legally. And he won every recount done after the fact even by biased sources.


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## PoliticalTorch (Jul 13, 2014)

RetiredGySgt said:


> PoliticalTorch said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...


You are Dead Wrong, mister! You and your cronies be sure to read this from top to bottom to dispel that lie that Bush won fairly.  

Yes, Bush v. Gore Did Steal the Election -- NYMag


----------



## Nyvin (Jul 13, 2014)

RetiredGySgt said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > North Carolina 12th district
> ...



Hiding behind the Majority-Minority district policy of the voting rights act doesn't change the fact that Republicans drew stupidly bias maps.   Bias to the point of absurdity with Democrats winning 50.6% of the vote and getting 31% of the seats.


----------



## PoliticalTorch (Jul 13, 2014)

RetiredGySgt said:


> PoliticalTorch said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...


And once again, fart wad, read this for the Actual Story!

Yes, Bush v. Gore Did Steal the Election -- NYMag


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Jul 13, 2014)

Nyvin said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



I notice you did not care that prior to 2010 when the dems controlled NC and drew all the maps and made shit like 12 and 1 there was no outrage from you. Not a peep. No complaints no hand wringing no outrage. Funny how that works.


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## RetiredGySgt (Jul 13, 2014)

PoliticalTorch said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalTorch said:
> ...



Sure thing retard.


----------



## Nyvin (Jul 13, 2014)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Nyvin said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



In 2008 the Democrats won 55% of the votes and got 60% of the seats...a whole 5% difference, whoop dee doo.    It's worth noting that this includes electing Mike McIntyre, who's pretty much a conservative republican in all but name.

Take out Mike McIntyre's win...and you have an election perfectly in line with what the votes say they should be.


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## Statistikhengst (Aug 5, 2014)

An update, and apparently, it WILL affect the 2014 mid-terms:


Florida judge: Redraw congressional map now - Tarini Parti - POLITICO.com






> A Florida judge has asked the state legislature to redraw the state&#8217;s congressional map by Aug. 15, holding out the possibility that Florida could postpone some or all of its House elections until after the scheduled general election on Nov. 4.
> 
> After weeks of nudging from Democratic groups and uncertainty for candidates running in House races, Circuit Court Judge Terry Lewis &#8212; who previously ruled the state&#8217;s congressional map violated the Florida Constitution &#8212; on Friday provided some clarity on how a new map could still affect the 2014 election...
> 
> ...&#8220;There is just no way, legally or logistically, to put in place a new map, amend the various deadlines and have elections on November 4th, as prescribed by Federal law. &#8230; However it might be possible to push the general election date back to allow for a special election in 2014 for any affected districts.&#8221;




I don't recall anything like this ever happening before in my lifetime. I think (but am not 100% sure) that this is a first in electoral pollitics.

This would affect FL-05 and F-10, but there are 7 other districts that border either one or both of the the CD's in question and some of all of their boundaries could also be affected:





That would be FL-03, FL-04, FL-06, FL-11, FL-10, FL-07 and FL-09:





Also, in a way, it is quite unfair, because the primaries are already over and people who voted for someone in one district may find that they are casting their general election vote in a newly drawn "other" district.

I can imagine that this ruling and request will be litigated.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Aug 5, 2014)

A friendly shout out to some folks about the posting above this one:  [MENTION=42916]Derideo_Te[/MENTION]  [MENTION=9429]AVG-JOE[/MENTION]  [MENTION=45886]Mad_Cabbie[/MENTION]  [MENTION=20412]JakeStarkey[/MENTION]  [MENTION=38281]Wolfsister77[/MENTION]  [MENTION=21679]william the wie[/MENTION]  [MENTION=43625]Mertex[/MENTION]  [MENTION=37250]aaronleland[/MENTION]  [MENTION=36767]Bloodrock44[/MENTION]  [MENTION=30999]daws101[/MENTION]  [MENTION=46449]Delta4Embassy[/MENTION]  [MENTION=33449]BreezeWood[/MENTION]  [MENTION=46750]Knightfall[/MENTION]  [MENTION=20450]MarcATL[/MENTION]  [MENTION=20594]Mr Clean[/MENTION]  [MENTION=20704]Nosmo King[/MENTION]  [MENTION=45320]Nyvin[/MENTION]  [MENTION=20321]rightwinger[/MENTION]  [MENTION=25283]Sallow[/MENTION]  [MENTION=21524]oldfart[/MENTION]  [MENTION=46193]Thx[/MENTION]  [MENTION=20614]candycorn[/MENTION]  [MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION]  [MENTION=29614]C_Clayton_Jones[/MENTION]  [MENTION=18990]Barb[/MENTION]  [MENTION=31057]JoeB131[/MENTION]  [MENTION=11278]editec[/MENTION]  [MENTION=22983]Flopper[/MENTION]  [MENTION=46136]dreolin[/MENTION]  [MENTION=34688]Grandma[/MENTION]  [MENTION=48060]guno[/MENTION]  [MENTION=42946]Howey[/MENTION]  [MENTION=20112]bodecea[/MENTION]  [MENTION=41527]Pogo[/MENTION]  [MENTION=48010]Machaut[/MENTION]  [MENTION=39530]AceRothstein[/MENTION]  [MENTION=25493]kiwiman127[/MENTION]  [MENTION=42949]bendog[/MENTION]  [MENTION=49463]PoliticalTorch[/MENTION]  [MENTION=39852]TheOldSchool[/MENTION]  [MENTION=45739]Jughead[/MENTION]  [MENTION=36528]cereal_killer[/MENTION] 


Anyone who doesn't want to be on this occasional mention list: just let me know, I will drop the name immediately. If you want onto the list, just let me know. I really am trying to make this a totally non-partisan list.

Thanks, 

-Stat

Folks, *please do not quote this posting, otherwise, you send out the mention list again*. Thanks.


----------



## Interpol (Aug 5, 2014)

Gosh, so many mouth-breathers on this site who seem to avoid thinking. 

Judge Lewis was the one who ruled in favor of Sec. of State Katherine Harris in Bush v. Gore both times that he was presiding over cases having to do with when votes needed to be tallied in that contentious election. 

Judge Lewis followed Florida State Law both times and it helped George W. Bush on his way to becoming President. Florida State Law put deadlines ahead of accuracy, which I think is poorly written law, but it was law all the same and Judge Lewis interpreted it correctly. 

He has also interpreted the law correctly in this case. Republicans agreed in secret to designing a map that would favor them and then they showed up to public hearings pretending to be average people from the general public who were simply giving their input as to how the maps should be redrawn. 

That's a violation of Florida's state constitution and I don't care what party you side with. 

Judge Lewis interpreted the law correctly in both of those cases, which are now probably his 3 biggest cases as a Judge. Two times it helped Republicans and one time it did not. 

Contrary to the opinion of his dissenters on this thread, there's no judicial activism here. His ruling has big consequences and is making for a complicated ride to the elections, but that's not his fault. He wouldn't have had to make the decision he did had Republicans not broken the law. 

It's telling that Republicans aren't appealing the decision, either. They've basically said, "Fine, but can the map just stay the way it is for this election and we'll come to a resolution for 2016?". Judge Lewis is considering that, and since he's fair and independent minded, I think he'll bend a little.


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## Mertex (Aug 5, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > Stephanie said:
> ...



Since when is *"The court found that the Republican consultants made a mockery of fair districting and that there was a secretive, organized campaign, a shadow process of map-drawing," * a will of the people?  Maybe crooked people, like you Steph?


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## jillian (Aug 5, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> It's against the gop so it's AOK with you



learn to read, steffie... and stop projecting.


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## jillian (Aug 5, 2014)

Nyvin said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



just to elaborate upon your point, democrats received 1 million more votes than the GOP in the House. the fact that they are the majority is an obscenity.


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## BreezeWood (Aug 5, 2014)

did the ruling include public proceedings and disclosures for the newly drawn map including plaintiff input ?

.


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## whitehall (Aug 5, 2014)

When a judge issues a ruling the judicial reasoning is important. Everyone is partisan and organized. How could it be secret?


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## Jroc (Aug 5, 2014)

jillian said:


> Nyvin said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



The constitution is an obscenity in the mind of the leftist.


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## PoliticalTorch (Aug 5, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> This is a big story. A REAL big story, and one with some far-reaching implications:
> 
> 
> TALLAHASSEE: Judge throws out Florida's congressional map - Florida - MiamiHerald.com
> ...


So, was Mr. Gerry Mandering at work here?


----------



## whitehall (Aug 5, 2014)

Using exactly the same judicial reasoning you could easily strike down the monstrosity ironically called "the affordable care act"


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## william the wie (Aug 5, 2014)

Corrine Brown will be torqued. You have to be in office to win that district and even though it is supposed to be a D/minority lock the only people I know from that district are hardcore Paulistas.


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## daws101 (Aug 5, 2014)

not to worry guys ..Florida will be under 20 feet of water very shortly ...


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## Statistikhengst (Aug 5, 2014)

Jroc said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Nyvin said:
> ...




Ok, that was pretty stupid, even for your standards.

Righties love the *C*onstitution. Oh, except for the parts they want to rip out of it when they are insanely butthurt, like the 17th amendment, maybe the 16th, and why in the fuck should women be allowed to vote, anyway? Dammit, it should be rich, WHITE plantation owners who vote, DAMMIT!!! Yepp, kill that amendment, too!


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## jillian (Aug 5, 2014)

BreezeWood said:


> did the ruling include public proceedings and disclosures for the newly drawn map including plaintiff input ?
> 
> .



Meaning what?


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## daws101 (Aug 5, 2014)

jillian said:


> BreezeWood said:
> 
> 
> > did the ruling include public proceedings and disclosures for the newly drawn map including plaintiff input ?
> ...


did the repubs do it in secret? that my guess,


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## william the wie (Aug 5, 2014)

To be exact Charlie Christ's appointees kept Corrine Brown in  office.


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## Grandma (Aug 5, 2014)

All districts in all states should be drawn up by people that are either independent, centrist, or completely uninterested in politics.

All states' districts should be in a simple grid, the districts being a collection of squares (or rectangles, or circles, or triangles...) varying in size only to accommodate population variances and irregular state line borders.


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## Statistikhengst (Aug 5, 2014)

Grandma said:


> All districts in all states should be drawn up by people that are either independent, centrist, or completely uninterested in politics.
> 
> All states' districts should be in a simple grid, the districts being a collection of squares (or rectangles, or circles, or triangles...) varying in size only to accommodate population variances and irregular state line borders.




As as I indicated here:


http://www.usmessageboard.com/clean-debate-zone/333884-electioneering.html#post8424470


Redistricting can easily be done with a supercomputer, programmed only with geography and population data, and by population data, I only mean, head count, nothing else.

The idea is at the link.


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## Interpol (Aug 5, 2014)

BreezeWood said:


> did the ruling include public proceedings and disclosures for the newly drawn map including plaintiff input ?
> 
> .



Yes, that was essentially why the ruling was made. It was proven that in the public proceedings, Republican operatives were playing the parts of "regular folks" and they were all backing the same plan they had drawn up themselves. 

That goes directly against Florida's state constitution. 

Personally, I think it should be federal law that says that political parties can not be allowed to draw their own maps because this kind of stuff happens on both sides. 

We should really have an independent elections commission that takes census data and gives us congressional districts that are fair and proportionate. Some of these gerrymandered districts throughout the country make a total mockery of our democracy, as the judge said. 

When Democrats are in charge during a census, they take the data and try to make it work for them and Republicans do the same, only the the GOP kind of went overboard 4 years ago and I think that's why it has made the issue come to a head. 

Just as employers should have nothing to do with one's healthcare, political parties should not be in charge of creating the electoral map. It only encourages bad behavior.


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## Statistikhengst (Aug 5, 2014)

Interpol said:


> BreezeWood said:
> 
> 
> > did the ruling include public proceedings and disclosures for the newly drawn map including plaintiff input ?
> ...



Yepp.


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## BreezeWood (Aug 5, 2014)

Interpol said:


> BreezeWood said:
> 
> 
> > did the ruling include public proceedings and disclosures for the newly drawn map including plaintiff input ?
> ...







> *Legislative staff told not to discuss congressional districts - ABC-7.com WZVN News for Fort Myers, Cape Coral & Naples, Florida*
> 
> Legislative staffers have been told not to discuss how new congressional districts are being crafted, as the House and Senate released schedules Tuesday for the upcoming special legislative session.
> 
> ...




*did the ( NEW ) ruling include public proceedings and disclosures for the newly drawn map including plaintiff input ?*


the question is directed as to whether there will be a public airing of the new district rewright or be conducted behind closed doors as done previously ? 

the above article is a preview for "business as usual" even though they pretend it is to not be unduly influenced as best accomplished by "closed door" deliberations.

that Judge may be a good smoke screen for them if plaintiff input is not a part of the deliberations - and done so in public.

same old same old.

.


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## Jroc (Aug 5, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...



What are you babbling about?... Constitutional amendments are constitutional


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## daws101 (Aug 6, 2014)

Jroc said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > Jroc said:
> ...


the award for stating the unnecessarily obvious goes to.....


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## BreezeWood (Aug 7, 2014)

> > http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/house-races/214646-*florida-republicans-propose-new-congressional-map*
> >
> > The new proposed maps, which are similar to current lines, would make Webster's Republican-leaning congressional district a bit more Democratic. The redraw would also shed parts of Rep. Corrine Brown's (D-Fla.) heavily African-American district to make it more compact and slightly less Democratic-heavy, along with making minor changes to five nearby districts.
> >
> ...




*The legislature is likely to vote on the map on Friday.*


they just convened today Thursday and they plan on voting on a (their) new map tomorrow ...

oh, and how did the public input work on that one - when caught cheating just have the cheaters do the rewrite because everyone knows they wouldn't think of doing it again ...  Judge Terry Lewis

 another Florida sham in the makings.

.


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## whitehall (Aug 7, 2014)

North Carolina's 12th district  (created by the democrat majority during the Clinton administration) is generally considered to be the most flagrant Gerrymandered district in history. At a couple of points is no wider than the interstate. The Wall Street Journal called it political pornography but the Supreme Court upheld it and it exists today in all it's politically pornographic splendor.


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## Howey (Aug 7, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> This is a big story. A REAL big story, and one with some far-reaching implications:
> 
> 
> TALLAHASSEE: Judge throws out Florida's congressional map - Florida - MiamiHerald.com
> ...




Au contraire. ..this will have a huge impact on the 2014 midterms inasmuch as we will be voting in the newly drawn districts.  A lot of previously red districts will have an influx of blue voters - enough to make an impact not only on our national representation but more importantly on the state level.

And getting that crooked bitch Corrine out of office would be wonderful!


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## Howey (Aug 7, 2014)

BreezeWood said:


> > > http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/house-races/214646-*florida-republicans-propose-new-congressional-map*
> > >
> > > The new proposed maps, which are similar to current lines, would make Webster's Republican-leaning congressional district a bit more Democratic. The redraw would also shed parts of Rep. Corrine Brown's (D-Fla.) heavily African-American district to make it more compact and slightly less Democratic-heavy, along with making minor changes to five nearby districts.
> > >
> ...



Neither link works but they won't succeed in cheating again.


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## whitehall (Aug 7, 2014)

NC's 12th was upheld and it makes Fla's 5th look like a day at the beach. What's the difference?


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## Nyvin (Aug 8, 2014)

whitehall said:


> NC's 12th was upheld and it makes Fla's 5th look like a day at the beach. What's the difference?



Do you know how happy the Democrats would be to get rid of NC's 12th?    It doesn't do them any good if you didn't know.


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## Shanty (Aug 8, 2014)

Maybe some of our resident conservatives are unfamiliar with the concept of theUS Constitution, and state constitutions, and how they, and the laws emanating from them, are to be followed. 

The law clearly had restrictions on how the districts were to be comprised. The judge, as is the duty of the courts, saw that the districts did not meet the law, as some pretty egregious gerrymandering was going on. 

Frankly, more judges should show the kind of courage that was exhibited here. These laws were put in place to end the gerrymandering that protects incumbents, waters down the political powers of certain groups (it was first used by right wingers in the South against African-Americans, to make sure they had little to no representation in congress).


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## Shanty (Aug 8, 2014)

whitehall said:


> NC's 12th was upheld and it makes Fla's 5th look like a day at the beach. What's the difference?



The unwillingness of the judge in the NC 12th case to have the courage to follow the law.


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## PoliticalChic (Aug 10, 2014)

Grandma said:


> All districts in all states should be drawn up by people that are either independent, centrist, or completely uninterested in politics.
> 
> All states' districts should be in a simple grid, the districts being a collection of squares (or rectangles, or circles, or triangles...) varying in size only to accommodate population variances and irregular state line borders.





You didn't happen to vote for the thug in the White House, did ya'?


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## Statistikhengst (Aug 10, 2014)

PoliticalChic said:


> Grandma said:
> 
> 
> > All districts in all states should be drawn up by people that are either independent, centrist, or completely uninterested in politics.
> ...




You know, the moment you call our sitting President, who was duly elected twice in a row, a thug, you already long lost the argument, whichever one it may have been.

Class bespeaks itself. Ditto for lack thereof.


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## Statistikhengst (Aug 10, 2014)

whitehall said:


> NC's 12th was upheld and it makes Fla's 5th look like a day at the beach. *What's the difference?*




It's called *FEDERALISM*, something you Righties are supposed to be all for.

You do realizing that this kind of bellyaching makes you look totally stupid, right?


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## william the wie (Aug 10, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Grandma said:
> ...


True Ds are the dupes not the employees of organized crime. By the way what do they have planned for the 200th anniversary, in 2028? This is after all one of the longest marriages in history.


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## Shanty (Aug 10, 2014)

william the wie said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



Democrats don't have to be invisible and impotent, like the third party, andf non party aligned dependents, like "Libertarians" or "Constitution" party dopes.


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## Old Rocks (Aug 11, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> ah yes, you must find him a rock star? gives you thrills, orgasams?
> 
> how about the supreme court? When did we ALLOW any judge to make policy, override the will of the voters, etc in this country?
> 
> and why doesn't it bother you?




Amercan Autumn!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Jroc (Aug 11, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Grandma said:
> ...




"I have a pen and a phone" He is a thug.... Wake up


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## PoliticalChic (Aug 11, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Grandma said:
> ...






I speak only the truth, and eschew 'political correctness.'


He is a lying Chicago thug.


Check out the IRS scandal, and correct yourself.






"....who was duly elected twice in a row,..."

Some catch on more slowly....you, case in point.

"New Poll Shows Americans Believe George W. Bush Is More Competent Than Obama"
http://www.ijreview.com/2014/06/144961-uh-oh-george-w-bush-seen-competent-barack-obama-new-poll/


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## Jroc (Aug 11, 2014)

PoliticalChic said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



Obama didn't know anything about that ask Stat he'll tell you


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## PoliticalChic (Aug 11, 2014)

Jroc said:


> PoliticalChic said:
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> 
> > Statistikhengst said:
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Not even a smidgen???


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## Statistikhengst (Aug 11, 2014)

Jroc said:


> PoliticalChic said:
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You really aren't very good at following flow of thought, now are you.

PC called our President a thug, I called her out for it.

And you write this drivel?

Are you always so perpetually butthurt, or what?

Do you have any idea how ridiculous this makes you look?


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## PoliticalChic (Aug 11, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> Jroc said:
> 
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> > PoliticalChic said:
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Thug, troublemaker, ruffian, bully, mobster, criminal, hood, gangster, goon.
Thug Synonyms, Thug Antonyms | Thesaurus.com


Perhaps one of the above better assuages your tender sensibilities.


All are true and accurate in describing this President.


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## Wry Catcher (Aug 11, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> stats, you are nothing more than clay
> 
> 
> 
> ...



YOU have a book?  In color with lots of pictures and _talking_ animals, I suspect.


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## Wry Catcher (Aug 11, 2014)

PoliticalChic said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > Jroc said:
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PC writes to her audience, Stephanie, CrusaderFrank, The T, and others who hate the President of the United States for no other reasons than the color of his skin, the birh place of his father, his middle name and having the audacity that someone with these characteristics and so different from them would have the audacity to run for the highest office in the land.  It must drive losers crazy (in the case of those noted above, it only took a putt).


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## daws101 (Aug 11, 2014)

btw folks "thug" is righty code for ******.


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## BreezeWood (Aug 11, 2014)

> Florida Senate approves new redistricting maps for Congress
> 
> *Florida lawmakers OK new redistricting maps*
> 
> ...




funny, the line waiting for the public hearing was told there was nothing to wait for - 


shortly we'll know whether the Judge will comply with the sham ... or ... be a patriot, true American and turn lose the Crakens.

.


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## Jroc (Aug 12, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> Jroc said:
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> > PoliticalChic said:
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He only seems to be a thug to constitutional loving American citizens who love liberty and you're a joke for blindly cheering him on as he does it. i don't think your Chancellor cares for him much either.


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## Wry Catcher (Aug 16, 2014)

Wry Catcher said:


> PoliticalChic said:
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Gee,  I forgot jroc, another sad loser without the intelligence of a rock.


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## Jroc (Aug 16, 2014)

Wry Catcher said:


> Wry Catcher said:
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You're a simpleton. Your previous post is an example of your simple mindedness


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## Political Junky (Aug 18, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> This is a big story. A REAL big story, and one with some far-reaching implications:
> 
> 
> TALLAHASSEE: Judge throws out Florida's congressional map - Florida - MiamiHerald.com
> ...


Thank God, there's hope for a fair election in Florida.


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## Statistikhengst (Aug 19, 2014)

Jroc said:


> He only seems to be a thug to constitutional loving American citizens who love liberty and you're a joke for blindly cheering him on as he does it. i don't think your Chancellor cares for him much either.



my "chancellor"?  That was just plain old weird and off-topic. Vintage Jroc.


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## Jroc (Aug 19, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> my "chancellor"?  That was just plain old weird and off-topic. Vintage Jroc.




You live in Germany you have a Chancellor there. What the problem?


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## Statistikhengst (Aug 20, 2014)

Jroc said:


> You live in Germany you have a Chancellor there. What the problem?




I am an American living and working in Germany. She is the Chancellor for BRD, she is not "my" Chancellor. I do not vote in German elections, I vote in US elections. Just to be crystal clear about this.


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## Jroc (Aug 20, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> I am an American living and working in Germany. She is the Chancellor for BRD, she is not "my" Chancellor. I do not vote in German elections, I vote in US elections. Just to be crystal clear about this.




I'm risking being off topis here, but you push Obama and his policies while living in another continent and not directly effected by them. Does Obamacare cover you in Germany ? "Just to be crystal clear"


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## Nyvin (Aug 20, 2014)

http://www.floridaredistricting.org/documents/Statewide_Map_H000C9057_8x11.pdf

The new map still has Jackson all carved up and jagged.   The district is still elongated and odd shape and not compact at all.   I really don't see how this solved anything.


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## Statistikhengst (Aug 20, 2014)

Jroc said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > I am an American living and working in Germany. She is the Chancellor for BRD, she is not "my" Chancellor. I do not vote in German elections, I vote in US elections. Just to be crystal clear about this.
> ...




The things I choose to talk about are my business, not yours.  Geography has nothing to do with it.
But since you were silly enough to bring it up, since I am working in a country with the oldest and most successful health care system in the world, I would say there is a lot that the USA could learn from Germany about practically every single facet of good, effective health care.

Your backhanded slap is noted. Guess that's what happens when you have no real argument to present, what?


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## BreezeWood (Aug 20, 2014)

> Fate of congressional district plan back in hands of judge | Post On Politics
> 
> Florida’s battle over redistricting went back before a judge Wednesday who is expected to rule soon on whether the Legislature met state and federal law in redrawing seven congressional boundaries.
> ...........
> ...




no telling how the judge will rule - it is an interesting coalition of Rs and black Ds against the reformers.

hopefully the Judge sides with the 2010 constitutional amendments against gerrymandering for political purposes and orders a redraw otherwise he will essentially be putting the icing on the Rs cake.

.


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## Jroc (Aug 21, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> Jroc said:
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> > Statistikhengst said:
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Yeah? well..... One: America isn't Germany. Two: our former free market healthcare system is responsible for most of the medical advances in the world. Three: the German socialist are responsible for for sending 6 million Jews to the gas chambers, and the deaths of 100 million people in WWII alone. Four: Obamacare is just a bunch of crony payoffs which caused my healthcare cost to rise 50%... So you can take your socialism and shove it....Hows that for a response bro?


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## Statistikhengst (Aug 21, 2014)

Jroc said:


> Statistikhengst said:
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> > Jroc said:
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Nice attempt at invoking Godwin, but it will not work.
The German health care system is still mostly free-market. I bet you didn't know that.

Perhaps, "bro", one day you will learn that ad hominem attacks do nothing to bolster your argument, assuming you had one to begin with.


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## Jroc (Aug 21, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> Jroc said:
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Sadly the larger point is lost to you...Oh well...it is what it is


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## Statistikhengst (Aug 22, 2014)

Jroc said:


> Statistikhengst said:
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There was no larger point. You were trolling, as usual, and when your last bit of semi-logic failed you, you went all Godwin.  Pretty damned sick when a Jew goes all Godwin on another Jew. That is just plain old weird.  Oh, well.... it is what it is.


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## Jroc (Aug 22, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> Jroc said:
> 
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> > Statistikhengst said:
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To you there isn't because your mired in your blind ideology......Clouds the thinking. I care a bit more about "other Jews" which is why it bothers me more with you, but I'm way off topic... I'll be around though


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## Desperado (Aug 22, 2014)

He voided the map because he did not want to screw up the previously democratic jerimandered map


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## BreezeWood (Aug 22, 2014)

> Florida judge approves new map for Congress - WINK-TV News
> 
> TALLAHASSEE, Fla.- A Florida judge is giving his approval to a new congressional map that was redrawn by state legislators.
> 
> But Circuit Judge Terry Lewis on Friday also said that this year's elections will not use the new boundaries. Instead voters will pick members of Congress based on a map he declared invalid back in July.  Lewis opted against calling a special election based on the new map.



total waste of time ...




> Capital Soup - Florida News Straight from the Source
> 
> *League of Women Voters of Florida Responds to Judge Lewis’ Decision About New Congressional Map*
> 
> ...



slight glimmer of hope for justice.

.


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## Mertex (Aug 28, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> An update, and apparently, it WILL affect the 2014 mid-terms:
> 
> 
> Florida judge: Redraw congressional map now - Tarini Parti - POLITICO.com
> ...



Hard to imagine a reason why District 5 would have to have that particular shape.  Someone went to great lengths to insure some type of partisanship, what other explanation could there be!  GEEZ!


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## Statistikhengst (Aug 29, 2014)

Mertex said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > An update, and apparently, it WILL affect the 2014 mid-terms:
> ...




Yes, it's absolutely ridiculous.


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## BreezeWood (Aug 29, 2014)

> Coalition appeals ruling on new map for Congress - WINK-TV News
> 
> Coalition appeals ruling on new map for Congress
> 
> ...




just why this is happening now with an election just around the corner is anyone's guess ...

at any rate I believe this only involves the US Congressional district elections - if the judges have the conviction, postponing the elections should not be a hindrance in regards to the validity of gerrymandering that has transpired that is expressly prohibited in the new Florida Constitution ratified in 2010.

*
... but the changes will not take effect this year.*

one must wonder, if the election is conducted using an illegal districting, how the judge could allow it to proceed ?

.


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