# Illegal immigration separates families.



## LilOlLady (Sep 8, 2011)

*ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION SEPARATES FAMILIES.
and amnesty will further separate them.*

Illegal immigration and Automatic Birthright Citizenship for children of illegal aliens separate families. Uniting families through amnesty in the U.S. is cruel and inhumane. Most illegal aliens have families and elderly parents who have lived their entire lives in Mexico and do not speak English or understand American culture. It would be cruel and inhumane to uproot elderly parents from their homes and families members (because some family members will be left behind) and bring them here to unite with their children.  The humane and compassionate thing to do is to deport illegal aliens, by enforcing our immigration laws, and their anchor babies and unite them with their elderly parents who need them. Anchor babies will have no problem assimilating in Mexico because they already know the language and culture and they need to know their families, especially grand parents, who some have never know. Bringing elderly families members here to unite them with their children is not compassionate but cruel.

Enforcing our immigration laws and deporting those here illegally will unite families. Unite anchor babies with grandparents they have never met. Amnesty by any name is not the answer to the illegal immigration problem. 

Why punish elderly parents by uprooting them and bringing them here just because our government is incompetent.


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## Russell (Sep 9, 2011)

The anchor baby solution is simple. Since few politicians are willing to enforce the immigration laws, it is time to amend the Constitution. "Children born of illegal immigrants/aliens shall not have automatic citizenship in the United States but will have the citizenship of their parents." Or something similar to that affect.

Thomas Jefferson would certainly approve. In his letter to James Madison, dated September 6, 1789, he wrote "...no society can make a perpetual constitution or even a perpetual law. The earth belongs always to the living generation."

Simply put, in the 18th and 19th centuries, this country needed people. Today, we have too many. Its time to close our borders. Times and circumstances change and we must change/adapt or become extinct.


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## Xchel (Sep 9, 2011)

and that would leave many children stateless so how is that humane?


LilOLady, many kids have grown up in the US with thier parents and have no connection to their parent's country..in fact, the first soldier to die in Iraq was born in Guatemala and came to the US as an illegal immigrant...many other soldiers who are US citizens with parents who are not legal are fighting our war for us...why should we send them home and just say oh well we don't care you were born here and were willing to sacrifice for our country that is of no consequence to us.  My oldest child would be one of those..why? his father who is deceased was not legal.


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## LilOlLady (Sep 10, 2011)

Russell said:


> The anchor baby solution is simple. Since few politicians are willing to enforce the immigration laws, it is time to amend the Constitution. *"Children born of illegal immigrants/aliens shall not have automatic citizenship in the United States but will have the citizenship of their parents." *Or something similar to that affect.
> 
> Thomas Jefferson would certainly approve. In his letter to James Madison, dated September 6, 1789, he wrote "...no society can make a perpetual constitution or even a perpetual law. The earth belongs always to the living generation."
> 
> Simply put, in the 18th and 19th centuries, *this country needed people*. Today, we have too many. Its time to close our borders. Times and circumstances change and we must change/adapt or become extinct.




We are no longer into nation building but nation survival. We do not have the natural resources to maintain a population explosion of another generation or poverty. 

*The Constitution refutes Automatic Birthright Citizenship*
Mothers Against Illegal Amnesty, formerly Mothers Against Illegal Aliens has for the last 5 years worked tirelessly to bring the PUBLIC the TRUTH about Illegal Alien Anchor Babies/Infants/Children
VIDEO &#8211; The Constitution refutes &#8220;Automatic Birthright Citizenship&#8221;


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## LilOlLady (Sep 10, 2011)

Xchel said:


> and that would leave many children stateless so how is that humane?
> 
> 
> LilOLady, many kids have grown up in the US with thier parents and have *no connection to their parent's country*..in fact, the first soldier to die in Iraq was born in Guatemala and came to the US as an illegal immigrant...many other soldiers who are US citizens with parents who are not legal are fighting our war for us...why should we send them home and just say oh well we don't care you were born here and were willing to *sacrifice for our country *that is of no consequence to us.  My oldest child would be one of those..why? his father who is deceased was not legal.



Their parents are their connection. 
How may parents are fight our war?
Many illegal aliens bring children here also who do not know the language or culture and they have not really adjusted because their parent have not learned english or assimilated. Remember these children are also Mexican citizens according to Mexico's constitituion. They have a better chance of assimilating in Mexico because they are Mexicans as their parents and they most all have relatives in Mexico. Grandparent they may have never met. 
These anchor babies are already being punished by the 14th amendment that separate them from their parents.
Being deported back to Mexico is not a punishment. Mexico is not a third world country where people are starving. If you have watched Border War you will see fat Mexican in designer clothing and shoes running from agents. Just last week I saw a man with Filas on.
Mexico needs it's young to survive and contribute to the economy and military.


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## LilOlLady (Sep 10, 2011)

*The original intent of the 14th Amendment.*
The 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution - Fourteenth Amendment - anchor babies and birthright citizenship - interpretations and misinterpretations - US Constitution

The Supreme court has already set precedent. It does not have to be amended but only interpreted correctly.


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## Xchel (Sep 10, 2011)

LilOlLady said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> > and that would leave many children stateless so how is that humane?
> ...



I pointed out to you the first soldier to die in Iraq was an illegal immigrant.  You seem to forget not all illegal immigrants are Mexican so it doesn't matter what the Mexican constitution said for somenoe that is say from Costa Rica.


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## LilOlLady (Sep 10, 2011)

I strongly believe that one day in the near future Mexico will summon it's people home.


*Mexico Claims Anchor Babies by Law*
By admin, on January 7th, 2011

Chapter II
Mexicans
Article 30. Mexican nationality is acquired by birth or by naturalization:
A. *Mexicans by birth are:*I. 
Those born in the territory of the Republic, *regardless of the nationality of their parents*:
II. *Those born in a foreign country of Mexican parents*; of a Mexican father and a foreign mother; or *of a Mexican mother and an unknown father*;
III. Those born on Mexican vessels or airships, either war or merchant vessels.

. According to the laws that cover their citizens, it doens&#8217;t matter where they have children, they are still Mexican citizens.


Mexico Claims Anchor Babies by Law &#171; rjjrdq&#039;s America II


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## Xchel (Sep 10, 2011)

It doesn't matter what Mexico says when it comes to children from Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Costa Rica, Panama, Dominican Republic, Brazil, Venezuela, etc..now does it? After all Mexico isn't the only country illegal immigrants come from.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Sep 10, 2011)

> It would be cruel and inhumane to uproot elderly parents from their homes and families members (because some family members will be left behind) and bring them here to unite with their children. The humane and compassionate thing to do is to deport illegal aliens, by enforcing our immigration laws, and their anchor babies and unite them with their elderly parents who need them.



Children born in the United States are US citizens, there is no legal provision to deport them, and Mexico or any other country will not accept American citizens to live in their country even if such a legal process existed. 



> The anchor baby solution is simple. Since few politicians are willing to enforce the immigration laws, it is time to amend the Constitution. "Children born of illegal immigrants/aliens shall not have automatic citizenship in the United States but will have the citizenship of their parents." Or something similar to that affect.



There is no such thing as an anchor baby, and no solution is needed. Any person born in the Untied States is a citizen, as hes known no other country per the 14th Amendment. Indeed, the Constitution cant be amended with wording as noted above without first repealing the 14th Amendment, as the two amendments would conflict. Such a new amendment would also conflict with existing Constitutional case law based on the 14th Amendment, and may require further action with regard to_ Dred Scott v. Sandford_ (1857).



> and that would leave many children stateless so how is that humane?



No, they would be US citizens, as the status of ones parents is irrelevant per _Weber_ and _Plyler_. 



> The original intent of the 14th Amendment.
> The 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution - Fourteenth Amendment - anchor babies and birthright citizenship - interpretations and misinterpretations - US Constitution
> 
> The Supreme court has already set precedent. It does not have to be amended but only interpreted correctly.



The authors of that site clearly have no idea what theyre talking about with regard to _Wong Kim Ark_, as the Court indeed ruled that children born in the United States are citizens. 

From the text of the actual ruling: 



> It is conceded that, if he is a citizen of the United States, the acts of congress known as the 'Chinese Exclusion Acts,' prohibiting persons of the Chinese race, and especially Chinese laborers, from coming into the United States, do not and cannot apply to him.
> 
> The question presented by the record is whether a child born in the United States, of parents of Chinese descent, who at the time of his birth are subjects of the emperor of China, but have a permanent domicile and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the emperor of China, becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States, by virtue of the first clause of the fourteenth amendment of the constitution:
> 
> ...



And the thread author makes no mention whatsoever as to families where one parent is a US citizen, one parent not, and their child a US citizen, born in the United States. It is truly your position that the mother and US citizen child be both forced to return to the mothers birth country  why is such a family break-up not equally inhumane. 

This thread is clearly predicated on ignorance and hate.


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## LilOlLady (Sep 11, 2011)

Xchel said:


> and that would leave many children stateless so how is that humane?
> 
> 
> LilOLady, many kids have grown up in the US with thier parents and have no connection to their parent's country..in fact, the first soldier to die in Iraq was born in Guatemala and came to the US as an illegal immigrant...many other soldiers who are US citizens with parents who are not legal are fighting our war for us...why should we send them home and just say oh well we don't care you were born here and were willing to sacrifice for our country that is of no consequence to us.  My oldest child would be one of those..why? his father who is deceased was not legal.



*Automatic Birthright Citizenship Another Entitlement Program.*That needs to be cut.

That anchor baby or yours does not belong to America. He or she belongs to you and belongs with you no matter where you are. Just like the children you brought with you when you came here, you should take them with you when you leave.

Being deported to Mexico is not a  punishment. Each deportation is going home and uniting a family. You are responsible for your child and not America. If you think your anchor baby entitles you to America, you are sadly mistaken. But you do entitle them to Mexico. 

Automatic birthright citizenship for children of illegal aliens is another entitlement program that need to be eliminated. Permanently. *Affirmative Actions *for illegal aliens.

Anchor babies are Mexican citizens and we should send Mexico the bill for their education, healthcare and living expenses that the American taxpayer is paying. And wait and see how fast Mexico will summon them home.


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## LilOlLady (Sep 11, 2011)

Xchel said:


> It doesn't matter what Mexico says when it comes to children from Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Costa Rica, Panama, Dominican Republic, Brazil, Venezuela, etc..now does it? After all Mexico isn't the only country illegal immigrants come from.



I am evidently speaking about Mexico since the majority of anchor babies are of Mexican parents. When ever advocates of illegal immigration speak of illegal aliens they usually use Mexico as an example.


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## LilOlLady (Sep 11, 2011)

Xchel said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> > Xchel said:
> ...



Illegal aliens should not be allowed to serve in U.S. military. And just because ONE died do not entitle all 20 million to amnesty?


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## California Girl (Sep 11, 2011)

If the kids want to stay, fine. Send their parents home.


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## MeBelle (Sep 11, 2011)

Xchel said:


> and that would leave many children stateless so how is that humane?
> 
> 
> LilOLady, many kids have grown up in the US with thier parents and have no connection to their parent's country..in fact, the first soldier to die in Iraq was born in Guatemala and came to the US as an illegal immigrant...many other soldiers who are US citizens with parents who are not legal are fighting our war for us...why should we send them home and just say oh well we don't care you were born here and were willing to sacrifice for our country that is of no consequence to us.  My oldest child would be one of those..why? his father who is deceased was not legal.



 U.S. Army Private Armando Soriano was born in Houston, Texas, USA. He was not the 'first' soldier to die in Iraq.


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## Xchel (Sep 11, 2011)

LilOlLady said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> > It doesn't matter what Mexico says when it comes to children from Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Costa Rica, Panama, Dominican Republic, Brazil, Venezuela, etc..now does it? After all Mexico isn't the only country illegal immigrants come from.
> ...



Half come from Mexico the other half come from somewhere else.  That said, there are children born every day into mixed status families..the majority of children born in the US to immigrant families are from mixed status households, which means the mother is from one country and the father from another....many times the mother being a US citizen and the father not being one, but sometimes it is visa versa or perhaps the mother is from El Salvador and the father from Peru.  This senerio is not unusual.  You think there are blanket fixes and there are not, but then of course as someone pointed out you think invading Mexico is a good idea too...you think you had a problem with illegal immigration before, try invading Mexico..you will have a bigger problem and they will be refugees so you can't do anything about them, because then they become protected by international law called the Geneva Convention.  Secondly, invading countries to solve our social ills is just a really stupid idea.  We have been in Afghanistan and Iraq for how long now? And we haven't learned one thing from it.


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## Wolfmoon (Sep 11, 2011)

Cut off the welfare and you would see a dramatic reduction in Anchor Babies. The illegal aliens don't have their children out of love they procreate for welfare dollars they could care less about their children.  They're no better than puppy mills. *They don't come for the jobs they come for the benefits.*

----

An illegal alien parent receives welfare benefits on behalf of his or her U.S. citizen child. Regardless of the parents immigration status may receive welfare and other benefits. When such a child receives assistance, the aid also helps support the child&#8217;s family. 

SOURCE: 

Illegal Aliens Extent of Welfare Benefits, Page 1. 
http://www.gao.gov/archive/1998/he98030.pdf


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## Xchel (Sep 11, 2011)

there is no welfare as you see it is only allowed for 2 to 4 years total in a life time depending on the state you are in..and the parents have to legally qualify so as you see legal status has nothing to do with it.  If it is all about welfare why do they have a higher birth rate in their countries?


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## Wolfmoon (Sep 11, 2011)

The only logical solution is to *End Birthright Citizenship* or sterilize the illegal alien mother and her infant at birth like they did to the Northwest American Indians right up until 1964 whats the difference?


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## SW2SILVER (Sep 11, 2011)

LilOlLady said:


> *ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION SEPARATES FAMILIES.
> and amnesty will further separate them.*
> 
> Illegal immigration and Automatic Birthright Citizenship for children of illegal aliens separate families. Uniting families through amnesty in the U.S. is cruel and inhumane. Most illegal aliens have families and elderly parents who have lived their entire lives in Mexico and do not speak English or understand American culture. It would be cruel and inhumane to uproot elderly parents from their homes and families members (because some family members will be left behind) and bring them here to unite with their children.  The humane and compassionate thing to do is to deport illegal aliens, by enforcing our immigration laws, and their anchor babies and unite them with their elderly parents who need them. Anchor babies will have no problem assimilating in Mexico because they already know the language and culture and they need to know their families, especially grand parents, who some have never know. Bringing elderly families members here to unite them with their children is not compassionate but cruel.
> ...




Our government is incompetent. We made them that  way, my friend.  Our government, the same ones that invaded Iraq for WMD's that were not there , or that deregulated banks that led to this current economic crisis. Those assholes aren&#8217;t MY government. They LIKE illegal aliens. Those rich greedy Republicrats LOVE "poor" illegal aliens. The hell with poor AMERICANS. Illegal aliens  work cheap, and they  breed like cucarachas, too!  Forget all those unemployed Americanos, they are &#8220;lazy &#8220;. Forget America. Profit uber alles! That is the message I get here.


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## Xchel (Sep 12, 2011)

Wolfmoon said:


> The only logical solution is to *End Birthright Citizenship* or sterilize the illegal alien mother and her infant at birth like they did to the Northwest American Indians right up until 1964 whats the difference?



Sounds like something from Hitler's brown shirt guides...sorry but that is awful.


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## jerryh60 (Sep 12, 2011)

This subject has beat up over and over. Most of the people who oppose this offer ways for those who have been here for their entire lives to become citizens. thus not disrupting the only life they know. Anchor babies mostly refers to the families who come over here for the sole purpose of having their baby so they are a citizen and the whole family sucks on the government teat. That is the only reason they swim the river to come here. Amending the constitution to read one parent has to be a us citizen for the baby to have citizenship is not inhumane. It would insure that their primary goal isn't to come live off the government. If a baby is born here from illegal immigrant parents, immigration officials should be notified and once baby and mother are well enough to travel, they should all be sent home. Thus insuring that both receive the best medical treatment available, but then are sent back to where they belong.


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## Xchel (Sep 12, 2011)

jerryh60 said:


> This subject has beat up over and over. Most of the people who oppose this offer ways for those who have been here for their entire lives to become citizens. thus not disrupting the only life they know. Anchor babies mostly refers to the families who come over here for the sole purpose of having their baby so they are a citizen and the whole family sucks on the government teat. That is the only reason they swim the river to come here. Amending the constitution to read one parent has to be a us citizen for the baby to have citizenship is not inhumane. It would insure that their primary goal isn't to come live off the government. If a baby is born here from illegal immigrant parents, immigration officials should be notified and once baby and mother are well enough to travel, they should all be sent home. Thus insuring that both receive the best medical treatment available, but then are sent back to where they belong.



the way to ensure no one comes to live off the government is to eliminate welfare period or to make welfare eligibility based on the parent's status not to amend the constitution and eliminate the 14th amendment.


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## jerryh60 (Sep 12, 2011)

I think we would have better luck amending the 14th amendment, and would be a better approach.


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## AnnieInMexico (Sep 12, 2011)

Xchel said:


> there is no welfare as you see it is only allowed for 2 to 4 years total in a life time depending on the state you are in..and the parents have to legally qualify so as you see legal status has nothing to do with it.  If it is all about welfare why do they have a higher birth rate in their countries?



Not accurate.  They don't cut off medicaid due to time limits.  They also do not cut off food stamps.  They cut off cash assistance, the least of our worries.


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## Xchel (Sep 12, 2011)

AnnieInMexico said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> > there is no welfare as you see it is only allowed for 2 to 4 years total in a life time depending on the state you are in..and the parents have to legally qualify so as you see legal status has nothing to do with it.  If it is all about welfare why do they have a higher birth rate in their countries?
> ...


They do cut off food stamps after 48 months in most states./


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## signelect (Sep 12, 2011)

When you break the law you must suffer the consequences.  I am sorry about the families but I am also sorry for mine, we are working and paying our bills and those of illegals every day.  No other country in the world puts up with this kind of krap.  We need ID's for everyone but the libs don't like that because they will lose the illegal vote.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 12, 2011)

LilOlLady said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> > LilOlLady said:
> ...



I thought a foreigner had to at least have a Green Card to serve in the Military, in fact I am pretty sure of it because if illegals were allowed to serve out Military would be flooded with them so they could stay.


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## Angelhair (Sep 12, 2011)

Russell said:


> The anchor baby solution is simple. Since few politicians are willing to enforce the immigration laws, it is time to amend the Constitution. "Children born of illegal immigrants/aliens shall not have automatic citizenship in the United States but will have the citizenship of their parents." Or something similar to that affect.
> 
> Thomas Jefferson would certainly approve. In his letter to James Madison, dated September 6, 1789, he wrote "...no society can make a perpetual constitution or even a perpetual law. The earth belongs always to the living generation."
> 
> Simply put, in the 18th and 19th centuries, this country needed people. Today, we have too many. Its time to close our borders. Times and circumstances change and we must change/adapt or become extinct.



_Nobody has the guts.  If they ever do, they should NOT make it retroactive.  It should start the minute the bill is passed._


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## Xchel (Sep 12, 2011)

they idea we have too many people is hillarious..we have more empty space per square mile than any other country in the world.


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## Angelhair (Sep 12, 2011)

MeBelle60 said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> > and that would leave many children stateless so how is that humane?
> ...



_First, last, tenth - what does it matter.  But the law is still the law.  We have a voluntary military.  If illegals join and get away with serving even though it's not legal to do so, they take the risk.  If we are going to be a country of laws, then BE a country of laws!!!  Otherwise just be like any other third world nation.  Problem solved._


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## Xchel (Sep 12, 2011)

I am not speaking about Soriano...I am speaking about Lance Cpl Jose Guttierrez of Guatemala.

He was an orphan that grew up in the streets of Guatemala City and walked to the US..to later become a Marine.


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## LilOlLady (Sep 12, 2011)

Xchel said:


> I am not speaking about Soriano...I am speaking about Lance Cpl Jose Guttierrez of Guatemala.
> 
> He was an orphan that grew up in the streets of Guatemala City and walked to the US..to later become a Marine.




So because of Jose we legalize ALL Guatemalians that are here illegally.



But here&#8217;s a controversial wrinkle to weigh: Should the U.S. allow illegal immigrants to serve in the military? *Only citizens and legal permanent residents can enlist now*.
This debate simmered in 2003 when we learned that one of the first U.S. soldiers killed in combat in Iraq had been an illegal immigrant. Marine Lance Cpl. Jose Gutierrez died in a firefight March 21, 2003. The Guatemalan was 14 when he left behind his dead parents and trekked 2,000 miles to cross into the U.S. illegally. At the time, the U.S. didn&#8217;t deport Guatemalan children who arrived without family. He was allowed to stay and became *a legal resident at age 18*.



http://blog.chron.com/immigration/2008/03/should-illegal-immigrants-serve-in-u-s-military/


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## Xchel (Sep 12, 2011)

LilOlLady said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> > I am not speaking about Soriano...I am speaking about Lance Cpl Jose Guttierrez of Guatemala.
> ...



my reference to him was on the comments that people who are either immigrants or illegal immigrants do not love the US and only come for one purpose to burden society...that in and of itself shows that to be untrue..how is a man dying in Iraq a burden on our society or make him a dead beat that does not love the US..things I have heard quite often from your side..blanket statements never fit...it is sort of like saying all West Virginians are dead beats that want to live off welfare or backwood hicks that have no education are what people from Tennessee are....


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## Unkotare (Sep 12, 2011)

Xchel said:


> they idea we have too many people is hillarious..we have more empty space per square mile than any other country in the world.




Really? Proof? Link?


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## Wolfmoon (Sep 12, 2011)

Xchel said:


> Wolfmoon said:
> 
> 
> > The only logical solution is to *End Birthright Citizenship* or sterilize the illegal alien mother and her infant at birth like they did to the Northwest American Indians right up until 1964 whats the difference?
> ...


 
I guess the only humane thing would be to End Birthright Citizenship and deport ALL the illegal aliens!


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

In the US, there are 87.3 persons per square mile...the world average is 107 people per square mile.
Population densities in 2020. (Bureau of Census report on developing countries) - The Futurist | HighBeam Research

we have miles and miles of open space and are not running out of room..


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## Unkotare (Sep 13, 2011)

Xchel said:


> In the US, there are 87.3 persons per square mile...the world average is 107 people per square mile.
> Population densities in 2020. (Bureau of Census report on developing countries) - The Futurist | HighBeam Research
> 
> we have miles and miles of open space and are not running out of room..




You didn't mention the world average, you said we have "more empty space per square mile than any other country in the world." If you cannot support that statement (or have already found out you are wrong) retract it.


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## jerryh60 (Sep 13, 2011)

Xchel, it seems that from reading your posts that since we have so much space, we need to let anyone and everyone just come on down. And from our conversations of the past, you were complaining about the time it takes to get visa's for relatives to be allowed in, and that you were born in Houston, Tx. But I don't recall a reply to my question as to whether or not your parents were legal at the time. As much as you are promoting anchor babies, seems you might be one yourself. And as far as those immigrants coming in illegally from Honduras and Guatemala and the other places you mentioned. The largest gang in the USA right now is MS 13, who come from Honduras. They smuggle guns, money, and drugs for the Cartels in exchange for their help getting more of them into the USA. Seems if we eliminated illegal immigration and enforced it, that would eliminate a lot more things than most of you here are aware of.


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

Unkotare said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> > In the US, there are 87.3 persons per square mile...the world average is 107 people per square mile.
> ...



the point is we are not overpopulated we are number 179 on a list of 241 countries yet we are the third largest population in the world..so it is pretty much backed up with that..there are less densely populated countries..with more open space...the example being Canada, but we are underpopulated not overpopulated..that is why in Europe trains work for transportation and they do not work in the US..because of space...we have the third largest population in the world yet we only have 87 people per square mile...that is really very few people when you compare it to China. China has 1655 people per square mile.


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

jerryh60 said:


> Xchel, it seems that from reading your posts that since we have so much space, we need to let anyone and everyone just come on down. And from our conversations of the past, you were complaining about the time it takes to get visa's for relatives to be allowed in, and that you were born in Houston, Tx. But I don't recall a reply to my question as to whether or not your parents were legal at the time. As much as you are promoting anchor babies, seems you might be one yourself. And as far as those immigrants coming in illegally from Honduras and Guatemala and the other places you mentioned. The largest gang in the USA right now is MS 13, who come from Honduras. They smuggle guns, money, and drugs for the Cartels in exchange for their help getting more of them into the USA. Seems if we eliminated illegal immigration and enforced it, that would eliminate a lot more things than most of you here are aware of.



I never said I was born in Houston...I was born in Dallas. If you had read closely my posts would tell you that my grandparents were born on the reservation in Oklahoma so my parents aren't immigrants.  You are wrong that the MS 13 comes from Honduras..their name is Salvatrucha which is a left over from the SALVADORAN civil war..they formed in Los Angeles and were refugees from El Salvador, not Honduras.  There is a vigilante gang in my neighborhood that gets paid to kill them...what you do not realize is most of those MS13 are legally in the US because they were protected refugees and children of those refugees.


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## jerryh60 (Sep 13, 2011)

It's all the same xchel, and you never replied with any of that about anyone being born in OK. And to nit pick the origin of that gang is pretty lame. The fact that they are being aided by the cartels in exchange for smuggling is a very good reason to do more to enforce and secure the borders. And yes, you did say Houston and not dallas. Get off the per square foot people crap. It doesn't have anything to do with anything since the law is the law. If you feel motivated to change it, go for it. that" what makes this country so great. We all have the ability to voice our opinions and do what we can to make changes. But just because we don't have a whole lot of people living on every square mile makes absolutely no sense and has no bearing on illegal immigration whatsoever.


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

> It's all the same xchel, and you never replied with any of that about anyone being born in OK.


No, it isn't all the same..the gang did not start in Honduras as you allege it started in Los Angeles and it was Salvadorans and not Hondurans that started the gang..the gang is now transnational, but saying Hondurans and Salvadorans are all the same is like saying people from the US are Canadian.



> you never replied with any of that about anyone being born in OK


It is in the information about me and yes, I ahve mentioned it..which is why Oracle complains about me saying perhaps Cherokee should be our national language instead of English...I am Cherokee.



> he fact that they are being aided by the cartels in exchange for smuggling is a very good reason to do more to enforce and secure the borders.



You really don't know much about the drug war do you? Let me give you some education on this.  They are not aided by the cartels they give reinforcement aid to the Sinaloa Cartel which is in a war with the Zetas.



> And yes, you did say Houston and not dallas.


No, I didn't...if you seem so certain perhaps you can show the rest of us where I have ever said I was born in Houston? Especially since in my profile it says I was born in Dallas.  Think you owe me an apology there, because I am quite certain I was born in Dallas, especially since my birth certificate says so.


> Get off the per square foot people crap. It doesn't have anything to do with anything since the law is the law.


the crap you are referring to was in response to a false allegation that we have no more room in the US that we are overpopulated..which is a myth.



> If you feel motivated to change it, go for it


If you had bothered to read my profile you would know it has been a lifelong commitment for me in the fight to reform immigration laws.

Also, might I direct you to my introduction thread

http://www.usmessageboard.com/introduce-yourself/183907-hi-ixchel-here.html

No where did I say Houston, and I did clearly say my grandparents are from Oklahoma.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 13, 2011)

jerryh60 said:


> Xchel, it seems that from reading your posts that since we have so much space, we need to let anyone and everyone just come on down. And from our conversations of the past, you were complaining about the time it takes to get visa's for relatives to be allowed in, and that you were born in Houston, Tx. But I don't recall a reply to my question as to whether or not your parents were legal at the time. As much as you are promoting anchor babies, seems you might be one yourself. And as far as those immigrants coming in illegally from Honduras and Guatemala and the other places you mentioned. The largest gang in the USA right now is MS 13, who come from Honduras. They smuggle guns, money, and drugs for the Cartels in exchange for their help getting more of them into the USA. Seems if we eliminated illegal immigration and enforced it, that would eliminate a lot more things than most of you here are aware of.



I thought MS 13 was from El Salvador originally?


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> jerryh60 said:
> 
> 
> > Xchel, it seems that from reading your posts that since we have so much space, we need to let anyone and everyone just come on down. And from our conversations of the past, you were complaining about the time it takes to get visa's for relatives to be allowed in, and that you were born in Houston, Tx. But I don't recall a reply to my question as to whether or not your parents were legal at the time. As much as you are promoting anchor babies, seems you might be one yourself. And as far as those immigrants coming in illegally from Honduras and Guatemala and the other places you mentioned. The largest gang in the USA right now is MS 13, who come from Honduras. They smuggle guns, money, and drugs for the Cartels in exchange for their help getting more of them into the USA. Seems if we eliminated illegal immigration and enforced it, that would eliminate a lot more things than most of you here are aware of.
> ...



well no not exactly..Ms 13 started in Los Angeles, California, but the originators of the gang were Salvadorans trying to protect their community from other gangs and they turned into a gang themselves.  Deportation of some of these folks made it a transnational problem.  They were Salvadoran though..and he thinks that there is no difference in Salvadoran or Honduran..sort of like no difference between being either Canadian or from the US..or even saying that there is no difference between saying someone who is from the US is English...which would really get a rise out of some folks.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 13, 2011)

Xchel said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > jerryh60 said:
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Thats also like saying there is no difference between a Korean and a Japanese person, or an Iranian and a Iraqi. Sometimes people here in the US just assume if 2 people speak the same language and look kind of similar they are probably pretty much the same, but that is often totally false.


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Xchel said:
> 
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> > High_Gravity said:
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exactly...


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## Unkotare (Sep 13, 2011)

Xchel said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
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> > Xchel said:
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The point is that you made a very specific statement. Can you back it up or not? Show some character and either support your claim or clearly and without equivocation retract it. I assume you are at least an adult.


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

It has been backed up.  I admitted it is not the lowest but that it is one of the countries with the fewest people per square mile which I did back up with a link.


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## Unkotare (Sep 13, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Xchel said:
> 
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> > High_Gravity said:
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The people in your examples there do not speak the same languages.


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## Unkotare (Sep 13, 2011)

Xchel said:


> It has been backed up.  I admitted it is not the lowest but that it is one of the countries with the fewest people per square mile which I did back up with a link.





Are you a dishonest person, or just unwilling to admit without condition that you were wrong?


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

Unkotare said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
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> > Xchel said:
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Um Canadians, English and US citizens all do speak English...yet I bet if someone said you were from Canada and that it was all the same you would be pissed.


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

Unkotare said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> > It has been backed up.  I admitted it is not the lowest but that it is one of the countries with the fewest people per square mile which I did back up with a link.
> ...



where is it dishonest to admit that it isn't the lowest population but one of the lowest? especially when backed up with a link? Sounds like you want a fight bud and you aren't going to find it here..take it elsewhere.


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## Unkotare (Sep 13, 2011)

Xchel said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
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> > High_Gravity said:
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Do you read the posts before you resond? Are you fucking stupid?


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## jerryh60 (Sep 13, 2011)

It didn't start in Los Angeles, ur right high gravity, el salavador. ny information comes from 9 years in a maximum security prison working for the gang task force. Heck, all you gotta do is watch some gangland when they focus on MS 13 and you would get a real awakening in this area. It showed the many times the leaders in El Salvador had to send someone into the country to enforce some things that the leadership wasn't happy with. Lets just clump them into South American  just to keep you happy. And what are you doing in Honduras if I may be as bold to ask.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 13, 2011)

Unkotare said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
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> > Xchel said:
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You are right they don't but how many people in the US can tell the difference between Arabic and Farsi, or even Korean and Japanese? Iranians get mistaken for Arabs all the time here in the US.


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## Unkotare (Sep 13, 2011)

Xchel said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
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> > Xchel said:
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That's it then. In addition to being very obviously of limited intelligence, you are a person of low character and no integrity. I had been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but this explains many of your previous comments.


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## jerryh60 (Sep 13, 2011)

Your very right High Gravity. Most of us (including myself) have no clue as to how to distinguish them apart based our very limited information. But for anyone to say MS 13 came from Los Andgeles is totally blind. I have had the distinct pleasure to interview 2 MS 13 gang members ( through and interpreter) and can assure you that their roots of origin are El Salvador and not Los Angeles. Up until about 18 months ago, the city here had never had any MA 13 gang members here. But once we had the 2 of their members here, they show up with a small group for support. Now we have an estimated 25 locally.


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## AnnieInMexico (Sep 13, 2011)

Wolfmoon said:


> I guess the only humane thing would be to End Birthright Citizenship and deport ALL the illegal aliens!



In a word, yes.


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## Angelhair (Sep 13, 2011)

Unkotare said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> > they idea we have too many people is hillarious..we have more empty space per square mile than any other country in the world.
> ...



_Do any of you realize that space is the least of our worries/problems???  We are talking about resources - natural and otherwise.  Geez people, get a clue._


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

jerryh60 said:


> Your very right High Gravity. Most of us (including myself) have no clue as to how to distinguish them apart based our very limited information. But for anyone to say MS 13 came from Los Andgeles is totally blind. I have had the distinct pleasure to interview 2 MS 13 gang members ( through and interpreter) and can assure you that their roots of origin are El Salvador and not Los Angeles. Up until about 18 months ago, the city here had never had any MA 13 gang members here. But once we had the 2 of their members here, they show up with a small group for support. Now we have an estimated 25 locally.



I am totally blind or you don't know what you are talking about? You have the distinct pleasure of an interview...I live in a neighborhood that borders by an area controlled by MS13 so I have the distinct displeasure of living by them.  I have to wonder how hard this is to understand...



> Mara Salvatrucha (commonly abbreviated as MS, Mara, and MS-13) is a transnational criminal gang that originated in Los Angeles and has spread to other parts of the United States, Canada, Mexico, and Central America.





> *The Mara Salvatrucha gang originated in Los Angeles, set up in the 1980s by Salvadoran immigrants in the city's Pico-Union neighborhood who immigrated to the United States after the Central American civil wars of the 1980s*.[5][6]



Mara Salvatrucha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

Unkotare said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



ok you are on ignore till you can play nice..I told you take your desire to pick a fight elsewhere you aren't going to find it here.


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## AnnieInMexico (Sep 13, 2011)

Xchel said:


> ok you are on ignore till you can play nice..I told you take your desire to pick a fight elsewhere you aren't going to find it here.



May I please be added to that list?  It does quickly grow old to see you add in your two cents and claim these tidbits come from factual sources.

Examples available upon request.


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

Annie, the same can be said about you...you rant and add nothing to the solution you are part of the problem because you say a bunch of nonsense that is backed up by nothing.


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## AnnieInMexico (Sep 13, 2011)

Xchel said:


> Annie, the same can be said about you...you rant and add nothing to the solution you are part of the problem because you say a bunch of nonsense that is backed up by nothing.



Again, may I be added to your blocked list?


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

Annie, the way to avoid me is just friggin don't respond...but I have to wonder why someone who is so anti immigrant would live in Mexico in the first place? Seems pretty hypocritical to me.


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## LilOlLady (Sep 13, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
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Does not matter where they are from. THEY are just one of the many Hispanics gangs in this country and all are dangerous criminals and need to go. Then start with the other gangs. Here is Nevada they are Hispanic and who gives a damn where they are from. Some are anchor babies who join  gangs and drop out of school because they don't fit in and there is a constant struggle between American and they parents who do not assimilate and still hold on to the language and culture.


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## LilOlLady (Sep 13, 2011)

Xchel said:


> Annie, the way to avoid me is just friggin don't respond...but I have to wonder why someone who is so anti immigrant would live in Mexico in the first place? Seems pretty hypocritical to me.



You like many are confusing aliens with immigrants. Mexico is a very nice place to vist and live if you have a job. Illegal immigration is about illegal aliens that come here and do not take personal responsibility and not Mexicans or Mexico.


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## AnnieInMexico (Sep 13, 2011)

Xchel said:


> Annie, the way to avoid me is just friggin don't respond...but I have to wonder why someone who is so anti immigrant would live in Mexico in the first place? Seems pretty hypocritical to me.



You are a manipulative liar and not even a good one at that.  I have NEVER written ANYTHING that shows I am anti-immigrant.  I have been extremely vocal that I am pro immigrant and anti ILLEGAL.  Someday we can only hope you'll be able to see the difference between the two but I for one, an not holding my breath.  Have you ever noticed that those who pay the least in taxes and usually tend to suck off the teats of the govt are the ones advocating spending money in all the wrong places?  They have no dog in the fight.  They are merely bystanders cheering on a team they do not understand.

It's very hard to read your posts full of nonsense where you can't even begin to hold your own and not respond.  It's a bit like an 8 y/o child try to participate in an adult conversation and the child really honestly believes they have valid points on politics, health care, and social issues.  You almost cringe for them when you see they don't have a clue how clobbered they are getting.


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

LilOlLady said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Xchel said:
> ...



and what about the white and black gangs? Remember Bloods, Crips, Aryan Low Riders...


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## AnnieInMexico (Sep 13, 2011)

Xchel said:


> and what about the white and black gangs? Remember Bloods, Crips, Aryan Low Riders...



They are not deportable.  We don't ignore the entire problem because only a portion of it can be fixed.


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## Unkotare (Sep 13, 2011)

Xchel said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Xchel said:
> ...




I know I'm sure as hell not going to find an honest person wherever you are.


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

AnnieInMexico said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> > and what about the white and black gangs? Remember Bloods, Crips, Aryan Low Riders...
> ...



and all Hispanics are you think even those born in the USA?


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## AnnieInMexico (Sep 13, 2011)

Xchel said:


> AnnieInMexico said:
> 
> 
> > Xchel said:
> ...



Where did I write this?  Show me.  Prove just ONE of your bizarre comments, please.


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

So these are not your words ?



> Does not matter where they are from. THEY are *just one of the many Hispanics gangs in this country and all are dangerous criminals and need to go. *


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## AnnieInMexico (Sep 13, 2011)

Xchel said:


> So these are not your words ?
> 
> 
> 
> > Does not matter where they are from. THEY are *just one of the many Hispanics gangs in this country and all are dangerous criminals and need to go. *



Link please?  I'd like to see the entire conversation.


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

AnnieInMexico said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> > So these are not your words ?
> ...


Oh good lord it is a few posts up in this same thread...why do you need a link to a thread you are already in?


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## AnnieInMexico (Sep 13, 2011)

Xchel said:


> AnnieInMexico said:
> 
> 
> > Xchel said:
> ...



Link.  I don't go searching to defend the evidence of manipulative liars.


EDT:  You ignorant little twat.  You just PMed me telling me I claim it is 'cool' to murder 9 year old children.  OMG, prove it you bitch.  Show me the quote.


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

AnnieInMexico said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> > AnnieInMexico said:
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evidence? Go fly a kite if you can't read the same thread you are in no one can help you!


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## AnnieInMexico (Sep 13, 2011)

Xchel said:


> AnnieInMexico said:
> 
> 
> > Xchel said:
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Can't back up your claims without taking things out of context?

Bitch.  Don't you EVER EVER PM me again suggesting I think it is cool to murder little 9 year old children.  You are sick and twisted.  Go take your meds.  They are clearly overdue.


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

AnnieInMexico said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> > AnnieInMexico said:
> ...



the only meds I take is Advair..which is an asthma med...lol.  Don't dictate to me what I am or am not going to do..it wasn't a pm either it was a neg rep.  I can neg rep you when I want to.  After all you were the one who brushed off that it was no big deal and did not bother to check on the claim that minute men murdered a nine year old girl because she was hispanic..they in fact shot her at point blank range in the living room of her home right in front of her parents so yeah I will say what I want to you and you have lost control..it is clear because your name calling shows your lack of ability to reason and construct an argument.


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## AnnieInMexico (Sep 13, 2011)

Xchel said:


> AnnieInMexico said:
> 
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You seriously need to treat your emotional instability.

What kind of person does it take to ****PM**** a person and suggest they think it's 'cool' to murder a little 9 year old girl just so you can throw an insult.

All bets are off.  Now I'm watching you carefully.  I will call you on every lie, fabrication, injustice, piece of dishonesty, and total BS and nonsense on your part.

I didn't verify your story, that makes it so I think it is f'en cool to kill children?

You are sick, twisted, and seriously mentally unstable.  When you use dead children to throw insults, that tells far more about you than you realize.


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

um sort of at the moment you said fire the border patrol and hire the minutement that is when it came to it being cool in your opinion...You watch me carefully..oooh I am so scared...lmao...what exactly are you going to do o me? It seems that you might want to go take a long look in the mirror since I am not the one screeching profanities and losing control.


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## jerryh60 (Sep 13, 2011)

Why are you in Honduras xchel if I may ask for a second or third time?


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## Wolfmoon (Sep 13, 2011)

Xchel said:


> um sort of at the moment you said fire the border patrol and hire the minutement that is when it came to it being cool in your opinion...You watch me carefully..oooh I am so scared...lmao...what exactly are you going to do o me? It seems that you might want to go take a long look in the mirror since I am not the one screeching profanities and losing control.


 
We need to hire Soldiers of Fortune to guard our Southern Border!


It cost $5.8 billion for years 2001 - 2004 to incarcerate criminal aliens this was a 15 % increase, most inmates were from Mexico. The percentage of all federal prisoners who are criminal aliens has remained the same over the last 3 yearsabout 27 percent.
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05337r.pdf


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

jerryh60 said:


> Why are you in Honduras xchel if I may ask for a second or third time?



Why does it matter why I am here? I am here because I want to be here and it has been my home for about 11 years. Does it really matter why I am here?


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## jerryh60 (Sep 13, 2011)

11 years,,, very interesting, so you really don't have a clue what's going on over here. Should have known


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

jerryh60 said:


> 11 years,,, very interesting, so you really don't have a clue what's going on over here. Should have known


I have plenty of clue what is going..living here does not mean I haven't been back to the US..travel back and forth quite frequently in fact.  Like I said..none of your buisness.


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## jerryh60 (Sep 13, 2011)

Your becoming very defensive, that makes me wonder even more.


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## Wolfmoon (Sep 13, 2011)

Mexican drug smugglers tied to California wild fire. http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE57G4SB20090818?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%253A+reuters%252FtopNews+%2528News+%252F+US+%252F+Top+News%2529


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

not defensive at all Jerry just telling you to mind your own business..or do you think it impossible for a US citizen born in the US to live outside of the US somewhere in Central America? Might I invite you to take a look at Honduran Living..a group in Yahoo for those of us who are from the US living in Honduras???? I am not the only one here dear and most of us travel back and forth on a regular basis because of immigration requirements in Honduras that we do so.  

I am still waiting for that proof from you that MS 13 originated in Honduras as you so wierdly claimed.


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## jerryh60 (Sep 13, 2011)

smoooooch


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## Wolfmoon (Sep 13, 2011)

"Estimate for Deporting Illegal Immigrants: $94 Billion", the number was arrived at by multiplying 12 million illegal aliens by the average cost of detaining people for a day: $97. That was multiplied by detention time: 32 days. They also added transportation cost of $ 1,000. per person. 

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/09/13/estimate-for-deporting-illegal-immigrants-94-billion/?hp
OR 
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/12/deportation.cost/index.html


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

jerryh60 said:


> smoooooch



that proof Jerry? how about it?


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## Wolfmoon (Sep 13, 2011)

Members of Mara Salvatrucha, better known as MS-13, who are mostly Salvadoran nationals or first generation Salvadoran-Americans, but also Hondurans, Guatemalans, Mexicans, and other Central and South American immigrants. And according to our recent national threat assessment of this growing, mobile street gang, they could be operating in your community...now or in the near future.

Source:

FBI
The MS-13 Threat
*A National Assessment*
FBI  MS-13 Threat Assessment


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## Wolfmoon (Sep 13, 2011)

*MS-13 operates in at least 42 states and the District of Columbia and has about 6,000-10,000 members nationwide.* Currently, the threat is highest in the western and northeastern parts of the country, which coincides with elevated Salvadoran immigrant populations in those areas. In the southeast and central regions, the current threat is moderate to low, but recently, we've seen an influx of MS-13 members into the southeast, causing an increase in violent crimes there.

*MS-13 members engage in a wide range of criminal activity, *including drug distribution, murder, rape, prostitution, robbery, home invasions, immigration offenses, kidnapping, carjackings/auto thefts, and vandalism. Most of these crimes, you'll notice, have one thing in commonthey are exceedingly violent. And while most of the violence is directed toward other MS-13 members or rival street gangs, innocent citizens often get caught in the crossfire.

Source:

FBI
FBI  MS-13 Threat Assessment


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

Wolfmoon said:


> Members of Mara Salvatrucha, better known as MS-13, who are mostly Salvadoran nationals or first generation Salvadoran-Americans, but also Hondurans, Guatemalans, Mexicans, and other Central and South American immigrants. And according to our recent national threat assessment of this growing, mobile street gang, they could be operating in your community...now or in the near future.
> 
> Source:
> 
> ...



yes, they are NOW a transnational gang wolf...but Jerry said they originated in Honduras which they did not..they originated in Los Angeles and the people who started the gang were Salvadoran Refugees not Honduran. Deporting them made them a transnational gang that caused a huge problem that could have been contained but now is out of control


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## Wolfmoon (Sep 13, 2011)

MS-13 are some bad dudes who like to kill people.


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

Wolfmoon said:


> MS-13 are some bad dudes who like to kill people.



I agree with you on that Wolf, but since Jerry was arguing that they were Honduran and he was wrong it got into a semantics game.  The issue though was made much more difficult by our deportation policies...no it wasn't wrong to deport them..it was wrong to deport them without informing their home countries how dangerous they were and that they belonged to Ms 13 now they are the rats that protect the Sinaloa cartel from Zetas.  So we don't have a problem just in Los Angeles we have a problem that spreads across the continent...


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## Wolfmoon (Sep 13, 2011)

Don't sweat the small stuff!


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## yidnar (Sep 13, 2011)

LilOlLady said:


> *ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION SEPARATES FAMILIES.
> and amnesty will further separate them.*
> 
> Illegal immigration and Automatic Birthright Citizenship for children of illegal aliens separate families. Uniting families through amnesty in the U.S. is cruel and inhumane. Most illegal aliens have families and elderly parents who have lived their entire lives in Mexico and do not speak English or understand American culture. It would be cruel and inhumane to uproot elderly parents from their homes and families members (because some family members will be left behind) and bring them here to unite with their children.  The humane and compassionate thing to do is to deport illegal aliens, by enforcing our immigration laws, and their anchor babies and unite them with their elderly parents who need them. Anchor babies will have no problem assimilating in Mexico because they already know the language and culture and they need to know their families, especially grand parents, who some have never know. Bringing elderly families members here to unite them with their children is not compassionate but cruel.
> ...


hell ....ship the whole damn family back !!


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## Unkotare (Sep 13, 2011)

Xchel said:


> jerryh60 said:
> 
> 
> > Why are you in Honduras xchel if I may ask for a second or third time?
> ...





..........veeeeeeeerrrrry interesting...


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## AnnieInMexico (Sep 13, 2011)

Unkotare said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> > jerryh60 said:
> ...



After using dead innocent little children to slam people, they probably chased her out of the US.  I'm sure the deceased child's parents would be honored to see the horrible things she writes about their child.  //sarcasm off//


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## Xchel (Sep 13, 2011)

AnnieInMexico said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Xchel said:
> ...



um it was you advocating to shoot to kill every thing that moved across the border..not me...and why would I be chased out of the US when I was born in the US and am Cherokee? hmm? It is much more likely that with your nazi attitude that you would be chased out of the US than me.  I have no intention of telling you personal details of my life that are none of your business.


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## Unkotare (Sep 14, 2011)

Veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry interesting........................


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## Xchel (Sep 14, 2011)

why is it very interesting that I told him to mind his own business? My STBX is Honduran so now does that make any sense to you?


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## LilOlLady (Sep 16, 2011)

If Obama is an anchor baby he can petition for this uncle and aunt to remain in the country?
Black men served and died in the military. Does that entitle all black men in prison to a pardon?
No more than illegal aliens serving and dying in the military entitle all illegal aliens to amnesty.
Do we want Obama&#8217;s aunt and uncle separated from him. If we must do everything we can to keep families together then it should apply to all criminals in jail and Obama.


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## LilOlLady (Sep 16, 2011)

Read some of these sad stories and keep a barf bucket near by. 
Does anyone understand that illegal aliens left families in Mexico, *separating families*, when they came here?
My Immigration Story - Home


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## domonkoz (Sep 17, 2011)

If I was in Mexico and the cartels were killing everyone in sight and my kids were starving.  I wouldn't find it "cruel" to move them to a place where they had a fighting chance for a better life.

This theory that comes from "do whatever it takes to get rich" of capatalists, that the poverty stricken won't do whatever it takes to survive.  I've been to Mexico, Baviacora to be exact where I was mining gold in a placer mine with my Dad and hired Mexicans.  (long story.)

Anyway I left a few months later, no gold and it was about 115 degrees everyday.  My dad stayed behind to sell off the equipment and tie up all the lose ends.  I got a call about a month later while I was on a patio at my local pub in that lovely half drunk bliss where everything just feals great.

He had been stopped by some militario's on the road leading from the mine going into what some might call "town."  The men and children with machine guns that had stopped him looked the part, full camo and all.  But then he noticed they were wearing tennis shoes and that was not the official combat boots most of the corrupt swine wear.  (their were rumors in town that he was taking pounds of gold out of the mountain, think in total we pulled out a half once.)  He told them he had his ID in his truck and the second he got in he peeled out and took off down the road.

The Mexicans chased him and opened fire, hitting his truck several times.  My Dad (Who always leaned a bit to the left) told me his only wish in the world was to have a gun at that point so he could return fire.  

This road was intense, I remember it still.  Bavicora is in the Sonora desert and this road goes up through the hills and winds around dangerously tight corners with about a 100 foot drop in some spots.  Eventually the Mexicans tried to squeeze up next to his truck and it didn't work out so well for them and they went off the side. 

My Dad did not stop.  He said he even gunned it through the next checkpoint at about 90.  He kept on going till he was in Texas, where he called me from a hotel room (he was very shooken up and I think it still affects him to this day.)  

This is everday thing in Mexico.  Violence and cruelty.  The people are beyond poor and the government is run by drug dealers.  

If I was born there, I would make it my lifes goal to get out, to get to the US and have a fighting chance.


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## Angelhair (Sep 17, 2011)

_Well, would you mind telling these people to find another country to move to????  This country is too crowded as it is and our natural resources will NOT last forever!  And while you are at it, tell their government to get off their corrupted duff and help their people.   The USA is not here to solve the  problems for every country on this planet._


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## LilOlLady (Sep 17, 2011)

domonkoz said:


> If I was in Mexico and the cartels were *killing everyone in sight and my kids were starving*.  I wouldn't find it* "cruel" to move them* to a place where they had a fighting chance for a better life.
> 
> This theory that comes from *"do whatever it takes to get rich" *of capatalists, that the poverty stricken won't do whatever it takes to survive.  *I've been to Mexico*, Baviacora to be exact where I was mining gold in a placer mine with my Dad and hired Mexicans.  (long story.)
> 
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You know damn well drug cartels don't bother with those who are not envolve in drugs. And *NO ONE is starving in Mexico*. Have you watched Border Wars on NGC where Mexicans are caught because they are *too fat to run *and they are* wearing designer shoes and clothes*? And some pay as much as  *$10,000 *to smugglers to take them cross the border.
They don't all bring children with them when the cross the border but through visas and *they leave children and wives back in Mexico and never send them anything and start new families.*
They don't come for a better life but for a *free loading life*. Mother collect welfare for their anchor babies and the father are working.

*Mexico is not a third world country *and if the government is the problem, stay and fight to make a change for ALL Mexicans is the right thing to do. With an unemployment rate at a *historical high of 5.4% *and average of 3.4%.

*Nearly 13 million American children live in families with incomes below the federal poverty level, which is $20000 a year for a family of four.*NCCP | Who are America&rsquo;s Poor Children?


_Mexican economy is Mexico is the eleventh (11) largest economy in the world (2009),(*3rd in North Ameria*)  with a *GDP of US$1.5 trillion *(PPP).  _Where does Mexico's economy rank in the world

Sorry if I don't feel sorry for Maria and Jose.


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## LilOlLady (Sep 17, 2011)

domonkoz said:


> If I was in Mexico and the cartels were killing everyone in sight and my kids were starving.  I wouldn't find it "cruel" to move them to a place where they had a fighting chance for a better life.
> 
> This theory that comes from "do whatever it takes to get rich" of capatalists, that the poverty stricken won't do whatever it takes to survive.  I've been to Mexico, Baviacora to be exact where I was mining gold in a placer mine with my Dad and hired Mexicans.  (long story.)
> 
> ...



Believe me. If drug cartels had wanted your dad they would have got him.

If you think Mexico is bad, you have never been to some of the inner cities here in the U.S. An example, East L.A. (which is little Tiajuana) Oakland and Richmond Ca. and hundreds of others. And what some children are doing just to survive?
You have no idea what *crime, cruelty and hunger and poor *is until you have been to some of these places. Any one can be in the wrong place and on the wrong side of the law at any given moment.  They call them bandido in Mexico and they just call them poor here is america. or just MS13. they kill anyone for no reason.


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## Xchel (Sep 17, 2011)

> You know damn well drug cartels don't bother with those who are not envolve in drugs. And NO ONE is starving in Mexico.



Wrong, they do kill innocent people that are not involved in drugs..remember the Casino fire? Those people trapped inside had nothing to do with the drug war and they aren't the only ones or did you forget about the US diplomat killed as well because of the drug war?

btw, Starvation kills 25 people a day in Mexico city alone..so where do you get that people do not starve to death in Mexico? STARVATION KILLS 25 A DAY IN MEXICO CITY - Only Heavy Food Imports Can Avert a Higher Death Rate. - Article - NYTimes.com

I wonder how long you could stay healthy on tortillas and salt alone?


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## Unkotare (Sep 17, 2011)

Angelhair said:


> [ This country is too crowded as it is ]




No it's not. Illegal immigration is wrong for many reasons, but we are not "too crowded."


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## LilOlLady (Sep 17, 2011)

Unkotare said:


> Angelhair said:
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> > [ This country is too crowded as it is ]
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Maybe not too crowded but to many people for the resources, jobs. Too many in poverty.



____________________________________________________________
*"We're where we are because we've forgot where we've been and how we got to where we are."*James Pence


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## LilOlLady (Sep 17, 2011)

Xchel said:


> > You know damn well drug cartels don't bother with those who are not envolve in drugs. And NO ONE is starving in Mexico.
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I for one do not believe this propaganda for one minute.
I have not seen any pictures of this as I have coming out of Africa.
If this was really happening we would be the first to know because Mexico would have their hands out for more.
I'll be back in a minute.



Just as I thought.* 1915 article*.

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F60811FA3A5C13738DDDAD0A94D0405B858DF1D3


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## Xchel (Sep 17, 2011)

LilOlLady said:


> Xchel said:
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> > > You know damn well drug cartels don't bother with those who are not envolve in drugs. And NO ONE is starving in Mexico.
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propaganda? I live it first hand.  Right around me I know people personally who live off of 1 pound of beans, 1 pound of maseca, and salt for an entire week.  Some are lucky to find that.


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## LilOlLady (Sep 17, 2011)

Xchel said:


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If you knew those peole personally, then you should be doing something about it personally.


According to the World Health Organization, *120 Americans died from "lack of food" in 2004*. 

Starvation rates in the United States are generally not recorded due to the relative infrequency of the occurrence. Generally speaking, most people do not starve to death in America as a result of lack of access to food. A combination of *government food programs *and *private charities *help to ensure this. However,* Americans do have a serious problem with malnutrition*. Starvation (that is, death due to lack of food) in America, in the *relatively rare instances that it does occur*, is not usually an indication of poverty but rather a variety of other social issues.

How many people die from starvation each year in America


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## LilOlLady (Sep 17, 2011)

Xchel said:


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Not yet STARVING to death. These peole can go into dumps behind resturants, super markets, etc.  and get food that will substain them.

I know a man that go behind stores and get food to feed a senior complex every week. Stores and resturants throw away perfectly good food and Mexico City must have a lot of resturants and stores.


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## Angelhair (Sep 17, 2011)

Unkotare said:


> Angelhair said:
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_You go to any big city and see how many latinos live there.  And many are illegals!  It's mind boggling how many of you live in a fantasy world!  And you can bet they ARE crowded!  This country has grown by leaps and bounds the last 10/15 years and all due to illegal immigration and latino births.  Don't ask for proof - do the investigating yourselves._


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## LilOlLady (Sep 17, 2011)

Up to 10 million people in *Somalia, Eritrea and Ethiopia *are starving because of a severe drought. Otherwise the land produce enough food for them and even then they live of nothing but what the land produce. *Mexico has productive land *and there is no exucse for people to be starving to death in Mexico. Most of imported fruits and vegetables come from Mexico. Mexico has a very long growing season because of climate.





As is the case with other foods, the United States imports billions of dollars' worth of vegetables from other countries. *Mexico dominates the supply of imported vegetables*, supplying peppers, cucumbers, tomatoes, corn, pinto beans, broccoli, cabbage, onions, lettuce, celery, squash and spinach, to name a few. Other important suppliers like Canada and Peru supply carrots, cauliflower, asparagus, mushrooms and potatoes.
List of Foods Imported Into the U.S. | eHow.com


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## LilOlLady (Sep 17, 2011)

Angelhair said:


> Unkotare said:
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Maybe not crowed, per se, bet crowding out american from neighborhood they grew up in and lower the property value. The neighborhood I raised by children in is not livable any more because of illegal aliens and the crime, gangs and drugs that come with it. And it is spreading. I have had to move three times since I retired because of the neighbor hood was over run by gangs, crime and drugs, They even ran off the black gangs, etc. Hispanic gangs ran the out of the city.
They are crowding people out of the city up into the hills here is Reno where wild horses, coyotes, bear,etc use to live. We have been rationing water for years. And when the water goes so with civilization. There has to be a limitation of population.


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## LilOlLady (Sep 17, 2011)

Most of our red meat, fruits and vegetable, nuts, fish and shell fish is imported. We don't have enough food to feed Americans much less illegal aliens. Mostly because *its grown cheaper *and *we pay less than if it had to be grown here*. So* if illegal aliens were deported and farmers had to move to Mexico, lettuce would be cheaper than if grown here and harvested by ilegals*. Not the *propaganda that it would cost $4 if illegal left*.


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## Unkotare (Sep 17, 2011)

LilOlLady said:


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There would be too many in poverty if there were only one. The rest is just nonsense.


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## Unkotare (Sep 17, 2011)

LilOlLady said:


> We have been rationing water for years. And when the water goes so with civilization. There has to be a limitation of population.




That is not a problem of population, it is a problem that inevitably arose when people decided to build cities in unwise locations (like a fucking desert!)


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## Unkotare (Sep 17, 2011)

Angelhair said:


> Unkotare said:
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You are confusing population in general with population density in specific areas, idiot. What "fantasy world" are you referring to?

Illegal immigration is wrong and the government is negligent in allowing it to go on to the degree it has. However, if US citizens who happen to be Latino want to have large families and can support them financially then it is none of YOUR fucking business.


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## Xchel (Sep 17, 2011)

LilOlLady said:


> Xchel said:
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I cannot feed several million people.  I watch it around me in Honduras.  What you seem to not understand is that it is the US corporations in these countries producing the massive amounts of veggies and fruits and shipping them back to the US..these foods do not stay in the Central American countries or Mexico..and in fact, NAFTA drove up the price of corn so high that people could barely afford tortillas which is a staple in these countries one that means the difference between eating and starving.  It is easy for you to judge sitting inside your three bedroom home with hot and cold water, airconditioning and central heat, and a refrigerator, television and all of the normal comforts and my bet is you have at least a week if not two weeks supply of meat and vegetables.  I want you to see if you can find the same in rural areas here in Honduras or Mexico either one.  NAFTA is what did that...yeah it is wonderful to argue that they have all this production..too bad it is the US doing the producing and none of it stays in the home country and the US corporations don't even pay any taxes on it either.  Remember the H1N1 virus? Some believe it mutated in a massive US owned pig farm in Mexico...a US owned one mind you.  If you think this is a new thing it isn't...just look at where the name Banana Republic originated from and then look up who Standard Fruit is.


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## Angelhair (Sep 18, 2011)

_Get rid of NAFTA._


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## Xchel (Sep 18, 2011)

Um...how do you suppose you are going to convince US corporations or the US government that is a good idea? Especially after they already signed the deal and they are the ones that win not anyone else...the US government has a history of exploiting those around them.


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## Angelhair (Sep 18, 2011)

Xchel said:


> LilOlLady said:
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_Boo-Hoo!  It's ALL the fault of the 'evil' United States of America!  The government in those countries are NOT to blame one iota.  Have you ever wondered why YOUR governments allow these corps into YOUR countries to 'exploit' their own people????  Where are their brains and their empathy towards their own people???_


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## Xchel (Sep 19, 2011)

Angelhair, the US has to deal with reeping what they sow.  When you go into another country and maninpulate and bribe the government and even threaten the government with invasion if they don't do your bidding and then steal their resources...don't be surprised when the citizens flood your borders in the form of illegal immigration because you have depleted their resources for your own benefit.  Question...why doesn't the US deplete their own land instead of everyone else's? Why the need to do it at the point of a gun?


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## Angelhair (Sep 19, 2011)

Xchel said:


> Angelhair, the US has to deal with reeping what they sow.  When you go into another country and maninpulate and bribe the government and even threaten the government with invasion if they don't do your bidding and then steal their resources...don't be surprised when the citizens flood your borders in the form of illegal immigration because you have depleted their resources for your own benefit.  Question...why doesn't the US deplete their own land instead of everyone else's? Why the need to do it at the point of a gun?



_As I said before - you suffer from severe brainwashing.  It's understandable as you are not to blame.  The problem being that you should read up on the history of the USA with an open mind and stop believing the lies you were told.  It's tragic to see so many people who come here to reap the opportunities bring with them your type of anti-USA mentality.  It boggles the mind that all those governments whose countries are in misery and chaos end up with no dirt on THEIR hands.   And yet so many of their people die trying to reach the shores/land of the country which is considered by people such as you to be the most 'evil' of all nations!  It is what is considered the third world mentality - born out of poverty, lawlessness, chaos, misery - and in many instances - ignorance.  You have proven my point._


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## Xchel (Sep 19, 2011)

Bring with them? I am not an immigrant moron..I am a US citizen born and bred and I am a NATIVE AMERICAN INDIAN. Cherokee to be exact.  There is no brainwashing done to me..it is living a reality that clearly you have never lived...walk sometime in those shoes and get back to me when you do.


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## Unkotare (Sep 19, 2011)

Xchel said:


> Angelhair, the US has to deal with reeping what they sow.  When you go into another country and maninpulate and bribe the government and even threaten the government with invasion if they don't do your bidding and then steal their resources...don't be surprised when the citizens flood your borders in the form of illegal immigration because you have depleted their resources for your own benefit.  Question...why doesn't the US deplete their own land instead of everyone else's? Why the need to do it at the point of a gun?





Are you high? Are you literally high on drugs right now? You are the most incoherent, ignorant, illogical, inconsistent lame brain on this forum, which is saying a lot.


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## Unkotare (Sep 19, 2011)

Xchel said:


> Bring with them? I am not an immigrant moron..I am a US citizen born and bred and I am a NATIVE AMERICAN INDIAN. Cherokee to be exact.  There is no brainwashing done to me..it is living a reality that clearly you have never lived...walk sometime in those shoes and get back to me when you do.





I thought you said you were living in Honduras.


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## Xchel (Sep 19, 2011)

Unkotare said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> > Bring with them? I am not an immigrant moron..I am a US citizen born and bred and I am a NATIVE AMERICAN INDIAN. Cherokee to be exact.  There is no brainwashing done to me..it is living a reality that clearly you have never lived...walk sometime in those shoes and get back to me when you do.
> ...



so you never heard of the word ex pat?


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## Unkotare (Sep 19, 2011)

Xchel said:


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I've heard of a lot of words you don't understand.


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## Xchel (Sep 20, 2011)

sweetheart if you understood the word you would not have had to make such a silly statement like ´I thought you were in Honduras´to the words of me being Native American Indian, specifically Cherokee and born in Texas...someone who has half a brain would understand that millions of people from the US do not live in the US.  I have a blog on my experiences in Honduras in general as an ex pat in Honduras http://lagringasps.blogspot.com/


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## Unkotare (Sep 20, 2011)

Bitch, sometimes it seems you don't even bother to read_ your own _words.


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## LilOlLady (Sep 20, 2011)

Xchel said:


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NATIVE AMERICANS is not that far removed from being an immigrant. I am a Chicksaw born and bred. So what? Much like a "anchor baby."


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## LilOlLady (Sep 20, 2011)

Unkotare said:


> LilOlLady said:
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> > We have been rationing water for years. And when the water goes so with civilization. There has to be a limitation of population.
> ...



Like the desert of Saudi Arabia? All the fucking oil they pump out of the desert?
Saudi Arabia has the world's largest oil reserves and is the world's largest oil exporter and the worlds largest desert.
Arizona may be sitting on a large reserve of oil say geologist?


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## Xchel (Sep 20, 2011)

Lil O Lady yeah but they don't have much water do they? That is a resource that is important and scarce when you build in a desert like Arizona.

Oh and no Native Americans are very different from being an immigrant....we are often treated as if we had no rights to be in the US but any true Native American Indian knows our history and knows that we are certainly not anchor babies. White men denying us citizenship in their union until 1924 didn't erase the fact that we were already here.


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## LilOlLady (Sep 20, 2011)

Xchel said:


> Unkotare said:
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Why not be just a little more specific?
*expat* - a person who is *voluntarily absent from home or country*.


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## Xchel (Sep 20, 2011)

LilOlLady said:


> Xchel said:
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had he bothered to read my introduction here he would have known the answer to his silly question.  Why do I need to be specific? After all it would seem a bit obvious.


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## uscitizen (Sep 20, 2011)

ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION SEPARATES FAMILIES.

Yep it does and the base blame lies on the one who illegally immigrated.


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## LilOlLady (Sep 30, 2011)

Xchel said:


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If you want people to understand what you are saying. BE SPECIFIC and don't keep people guessing.


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