# Why is the gay community afraid of "conversion therapy"?



## healthmyths

Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.

So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?

So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com

Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?

I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?

People are gay for two reasons:
1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality 
2) The behavior is learned.

Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.

I would like anyone to refute that.


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## occupied

I wonder if there is a conversion therapy for willfully ignorant people. A better question is why do you care who other people sleep with?


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## skookerasbil

They should convert......think of the reduction in the misery/confusion level of these people?


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## JakeStarkey

Because conversion therapy is based on a false premise.

hm, once again you post material that undermines your OP.


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## NYcarbineer

Then why not conversion-to-lesbianism therapy for poor women who might have too many children?

lol


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## JakeStarkey

Or far right wing conversion therapy to normality for people who just don't get it.


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## Zmrzlina

What consenting individuals do in the bedroom is their business alone.


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## Katzndogz

They aren't afraid of conversion therapy.  Just when it's used on them.  Gays have managed to get all different kinds of straight people sent to conversion therapy to make them more gay friendly.


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## shart_attack

Every (supposedly) "gay" man I've ever met has said he gets aroused watching heterosexual porn.

That tells me all I need to know about their supposedly genetic predisposition.


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## JakeStarkey

Katzndogz said:


> They aren't afraid of conversion therapy.  Just when it's used on them.  Gays have managed to get all different kinds of straight people sent to conversion therapy to make them more gay friendly.



One of the types of lies that is going to result in marriage equality by the of the SCOTUS term next year.


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## JakeStarkey

shart_attack said:


> Every (supposedly) "gay" man I've ever met has said he gets aroused watching heterosexual porn.
> 
> That tells me all I need to know about their supposedly genetic predisposition.



No gay man has told you any such thing.


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## shart_attack

JakeStarkey said:


> shart_attack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every (supposedly) "gay" man I've ever met has said he gets aroused watching heterosexual porn.
> 
> That tells me all I need to know about their supposedly genetic predisposition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No gay man has told you any such thing.
Click to expand...


Yeah, they have.


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## Harry Dresden

shart_attack said:


> Every (supposedly) "gay" man I've ever met has said he gets aroused watching heterosexual porn.
> 
> That tells me all I need to know about their supposedly genetic predisposition.



lots of straight guys get turned on watching 2 woman go at it.....what does that say?.....


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## Disir

shart_attack said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shart_attack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every (supposedly) "gay" man I've ever met has said he gets aroused watching heterosexual porn.
> 
> That tells me all I need to know about their supposedly genetic predisposition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No gay man has told you any such thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, they have.
Click to expand...

[ame=http://youtu.be/iKB7vAFTdA8]Do Homophobes like Pr0n? - YouTube[/ame]


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## bodecea

shart_attack said:


> Every (supposedly) "gay" man I've ever met has said he gets aroused watching heterosexual porn.
> 
> That tells me all I need to know about their supposedly genetic predisposition.



Well...those have got to be some interesting conversations you have.


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## Nyvin

healthmyths said:


> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.



Because it overwhelmingly targets young males who are already in a state of identity confusion and development anyway.   The programs exploit any and all guilt and anxiety the person feels from society and confirms negative feelings they get from society for being gay.

You basically take negativity the person gets from peer pressure and capitalize on it to get the person to believe that they are "abnormal" and "different" and need to change.   It almost always leads to major depression and thoughts of suicide and the person is rarely if ever any better off after the conversion therapy is "done" (whatever "done" is...).   

It's not just gays that don't like it either, the American Medical Association, American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy, the American Counseling Association, the National Association of Social Workers, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the American Academy of Physician Assistants....................*ALL of them are against gay conversion therapy.  *

The only support gay conversion therapy gets is from...surprise surprise....religiously linked, church funded right wing groups who basically deny any and all scientific data and say "no no no, we do the right thing, we make these weirdos normal people!"


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## The Rabbi

Gays have a problem keeping things straight, so to speak.
First they claim that no one would choose to be gay.  Then they claim that they dont want any help in overcoming their perversion.
The truth is they not only embrace homsoexuality, defining themselves by it, but think it should be the preferential choice. Thus the efforts to inflate the number of homosexuals in America via discredited stats. And the efforts to introduce homosexuality as normative in schools at ever younger ages.


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## rdean

healthmyths said:


> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.



Tell us how easy is it so "learn" to suc..............


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## The Rabbi

Nyvin said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because it overwhelmingly targets young males who are already in a state of identity confusion and development anyway.   The programs exploit any and all guilt and anxiety the person feels from society and confirms negative feelings they get from society for being gay.
> 
> You basically take negativity the person gets from peer pressure and capitalize on it to get the person to believe that they are "abnormal" and "different" and need to change.   It almost always leads to major depression and thoughts of suicide and the person is rarely if ever any better off after the conversion therapy is "done" (whatever "done" is...).
> 
> It's not just gays that don't like it either, the American Medical Association, American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy, the American Counseling Association, the National Association of Social Workers, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the American Academy of Physician Assistants....................*ALL of them are against gay conversion therapy.  *
> 
> The only support gay conversion therapy gets is from...surprise surprise....religiously link, church funded right wing groups who basically deny any and all scientific data and say "no no no, we do the right thing, we make these weirdos normal people!"
Click to expand...


So attempts to help young men having identity crises are bad?  I thought libs cared about people.


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## Seawytch

shart_attack said:


> Every (supposedly) "gay" man I've ever met has said he gets aroused watching heterosexual porn.
> 
> That tells me all I need to know about their supposedly genetic predisposition.



You are full of shit. 

Study finds sex differences in relationship between arousal and orientation
_New evidence has emerged suggesting that the tendency for gay men to become aroused only to same-sex images and heterosexual men to become aroused only to opposite-sex images is not true of women._

Now this is the one folks are ascairt of...

Homophobic Men Most Aroused by Gay Male Porn


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## Rozman

Katzndogz said:


> They aren't afraid of conversion therapy.  Just when it's used on them.  Gays have managed to get all different kinds of straight people sent to conversion therapy to make them more gay friendly.



I just got my orders from the DNC...
I'm scheduled to report in August at a camp in upstate NY.
Failure to do so may result in a fine.
They will provide adcommodations but not travel.
It seems I'm to room with a gay male over the weekend.
I hope the room has double beds.


This is so fucked.


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## hangover

> Why is the gay community afraid of "conversion therapy"?



Everyone should be avoid fascist mind control.


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## Moonglow

I am tired of being a man, I want conversion therapy to be a cute kitten..


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## Moonglow

Rozman said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> They aren't afraid of conversion therapy.  Just when it's used on them.  Gays have managed to get all different kinds of straight people sent to conversion therapy to make them more gay friendly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just got my orders from the DNC...
> I'm scheduled to report in August at a camp in upstate NY.
> Failure to do so may result in a fine.
> They will provide adcommodations but not travel.
> It seems I'm to room with a gay male over the weekend.
> I hope the room has double beds.
> 
> 
> This is so fucked.
Click to expand...


How much do you get paid to lie and do it very badly?


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## Moonglow

rdean said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell us how easy is it so "learn" to suc..............
Click to expand...


It's part of the R&D health was crowing about...


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## Zmrzlina

The Rabbi said:


> So attempts to help young men having identity crises are bad?  I thought libs cared about people.



Exploiting vulnerable people to make a quick buck is wrong.


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## Katzndogz

shart_attack said:


> Every (supposedly) "gay" man I've ever met has said he gets aroused watching heterosexual porn.
> 
> That tells me all I need to know about their supposedly genetic predisposition.



If gay men are looking at naked men they will get aroused.


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## Rozman

Moonglow said:


> Rozman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> They aren't afraid of conversion therapy.  Just when it's used on them.  Gays have managed to get all different kinds of straight people sent to conversion therapy to make them more gay friendly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just got my orders from the DNC...
> I'm scheduled to report in August at a camp in upstate NY.
> Failure to do so may result in a fine.
> They will provide adcommodations but not travel.
> It seems I'm to room with a gay male over the weekend.
> I hope the room has double beds.
> 
> 
> This is so fucked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How much do you get paid to lie and do it very badly?
Click to expand...


I don't get paid to post here...
Not like some of us...


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## Rozman

I do it for me....


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## shart_attack

Disir said:


> shart_attack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> No gay man has told you any such thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, they have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> [ame=http://youtu.be/iKB7vAFTdA8]Do Homophobes like Pr0n? - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...


Thank you for proving what I was saying!

You're a _genius_, Disir!!!


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## Zmrzlina

shart_attack said:


> Every (supposedly) "gay" man I've ever met has said he gets aroused watching heterosexual porn.
> 
> That tells me all I need to know about their supposedly genetic predisposition.



You mean to tell me that sexually explicit materials causes arousal in the viewer?!  What is this nonsense!


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## Disir

The question is, why use something that has already been discredited and considered by many to be harmful?
http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/therapeutic-response.pdf


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## hazlnut

Why is the far-right afraid of progress?


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## aaronleland

shart_attack said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shart_attack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every (supposedly) "gay" man I've ever met has said he gets aroused watching heterosexual porn.
> 
> That tells me all I need to know about their supposedly genetic predisposition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No gay man has told you any such thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, they have.
Click to expand...


No they haven't.


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## JakeStarkey

aaronleland said:


> shart_attack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> No gay man has told you any such thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, they have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No they haven't.
Click to expand...


No, they haven't, Shart.  We can tell when you lie: you post.


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## GreenBean

occupied said:


> I wonder if there is a conversion therapy for willfully ignorant people.?





> I wonder if there is a conversion therapy for willfully ignorant people.?



You should try it - it might help.


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## GreenBean

JakeStarkey said:


> shart_attack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every (supposedly) "gay" man I've ever met has said he gets aroused watching heterosexual porn.
> 
> That tells me all I need to know about their supposedly genetic predisposition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No gay man has told you any such thing.
Click to expand...


*And how could you possibly know that ?  *

The fact is , you simply don't want it to be true - so you are in denial - it's probably true.  You're still a funny guy Jake.


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## GreenBean

hazlnut said:


> Why is the far-right afraid of progress?



You're definition of progress is degeneration.


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## healthmyths

Zmrzlina said:


> What consenting individuals do in the bedroom is their business alone.



But it may NOT be between consenting people... if one of the gay's has a problem why is he being forced into sex?
Of course you don't know what the situations are so you can't comment about "consenting"...

So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."


----------



## Harry Dresden

Katzndogz said:


> shart_attack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every (supposedly) "gay" man I've ever met has said he gets aroused watching heterosexual porn.
> 
> That tells me all I need to know about their supposedly genetic predisposition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If gay men are looking at naked men they will get aroused.
Click to expand...


you think?.......and i hear that a heterosexual guy looking at naked woman will get aroused too.....


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## Luddly Neddite

shart_attack said:


> Every (supposedly) "gay" man I've ever met has said he gets aroused watching heterosexual porn.
> 
> That tells me all I need to know about their supposedly genetic predisposition.



That you're so desperate that you make up something THIS dumb tells me all I need to know about your opinion of gays. 























Get help.


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## Moonglow

Why is the straight community afraid of "conversion therapy"?


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## Moonglow

Luddly Neddite said:


> shart_attack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every (supposedly) "gay" man I've ever met has said he gets aroused watching heterosexual porn.
> 
> That tells me all I need to know about their supposedly genetic predisposition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That you're so desperate that you make up something THIS dumb tells me all I need to know about your opinion of gays.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get help.
Click to expand...


He must be talking to those gay men at the porn theater again...while they are, you know, getting hairy palms....


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## Moonglow

Harry Dresden said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shart_attack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every (supposedly) "gay" man I've ever met has said he gets aroused watching heterosexual porn.
> 
> That tells me all I need to know about their supposedly genetic predisposition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If gay men are looking at naked men they will get aroused.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you think?.......and i hear that a heterosexual guy looking at naked woman will get aroused too.....
Click to expand...


What is even worse? They are getting aroused looking at a naked men performing sex and having no problem with it...their favorite moment is the facials, they love seeing the spunk fly!


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## Moonglow

healthmyths said:


> Zmrzlina said:
> 
> 
> 
> What consenting individuals do in the bedroom is their business alone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it may NOT be between consenting people... if one of the gay's has a problem why is he being forced into sex?
> Of course you don't know what the situations are so you can't comment about "consenting"...
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
Click to expand...


Yes, old Shakespeare sure did not involve hereto lovers killing themselves....


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## Zmrzlina

healthmyths said:


> Zmrzlina said:
> 
> 
> 
> What consenting individuals do in the bedroom is their business alone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it may NOT be between consenting people... if one of the gay's has a problem why is he being forced into sex?
> Of course you don't know what the situations are so you can't comment about "consenting"...
Click to expand...

You obviously don't fully grasp the concept of consent if you believe that homosexuals somehow are unable to give consent.


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## MaryL

Homosexuals like therapy. Anaylisis. But not so much being cured.


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## healthmyths

Moonglow said:


> Why is the straight community afraid of "conversion therapy"?



Haven't seen ONE single straight asking for laws making conversion therapy illegal.  Only gay community.


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## Seawytch

healthmyths said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is the straight community afraid of "conversion therapy"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't seen ONE single straight asking for laws making conversion therapy illegal.  Only gay community.
Click to expand...


Then you aren't looking. The American Psychological Association has soundly rejected this "voodoo" therapy.

Resolution on Appropriate Affirmative Responses to Sexual Orientation Distress and Change Efforts


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## rdean

Harry Dresden said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shart_attack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every (supposedly) "gay" man I've ever met has said he gets aroused watching heterosexual porn.
> 
> That tells me all I need to know about their supposedly genetic predisposition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If gay men are looking at naked men they will get aroused.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you think?.......and i hear that a heterosexual guy looking at naked woman will get aroused too.....
Click to expand...


Anyone can get aroused looking at the motion of the ocean, doesn't mean they are all sailors.


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## rdean

"conversion therapy"

Republicans always like torture.  Unless they are the ones being tortured.


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## BobPlumb

Did Anne Heche receive this therapy?


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## rdean

BobPlumb said:


> Did Anne Heche receive this therapy?



Of course.  She was forced to bob for apples.


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## NLT

> Why is the gay community afraid of "conversion therapy"?


you cant "fix"  fag


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## emilynghiem

healthmyths said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is the straight community afraid of "conversion therapy"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't seen ONE single straight asking for laws making conversion therapy illegal.  Only gay community.
Click to expand...


What?  [MENTION=32646]healthmyths[/MENTION]

Gov. Christie (R) spoke out publicly condemning the conversion therapy as abusive.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ie-gay-conversion-therapy-new-jersey/2671197/

That's why the Republic Party had to counteract and defend Reparative Therapy as an effective OPTION
that is NOT abusive but elected freely by people who have been helped VOLUNTARILY.
One of my closest friends said his therapist helped him overcome his issues with orientation, so he agreed NOT TO BAN therapy that can help people.
That is going TOO FAR: banning ABUSE is one thing, but not ALL practices where some are actually effective and proven to help people restore their natural state of health.

Note: I believe the abusive forced conversion approach is fraudulent and
AGAINST the effective methods of Spiritual Healing used to recover from abuses.
When the Natural Healing process is followed, the abuses, causes and symptoms
are healed, including any unnatural or addictive behavior whether heterosexual or homosexual. So this is not discrminatory but works on healing all types of abuse or addictions, not just sexual and not just homosexual. So that is the type of healing I have found that works, based on forgiveness therapy which is voluntary and natural, not forced.


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## emilynghiem

NLT said:


> Why is the gay community afraid of "conversion therapy"?
> 
> 
> 
> you cant "fix"  fag
Click to expand...


Yes and no.

If people are spiritually born and meant to be this way for life, no that cannot change.
Many Christians have even come out with this realization and accepted that
"some Eunuchs are made by God and some by man."

If people's sexual behavior is unnatural, caused by abuse,
this CAN be healed and changed, whether heterosexual or homosexual.

The issue is UNNATURAL sexual behavior, addiction and abuse.
Some cases CAN be healed and some cannot.

Some of the extreme cases of sexual or criminal addiction are so engrained,
the relapses are ongoing and the person cannot function in society.

With the applications of spiritual healing to cancer,
again, some cases are born, some are caused by environmental factors,
some can be healed by spiritual therapy (by identifiying the root cause of unforgiven conflicts otherwise blocking the natural healing of the mind and body) and some cannot.

With homosexuality, and other sexual/heterosexual patterns of behavior,
some of the cases of abuses or addictions may respond to spiritual healing and therapy
and some may not.

Sources: Dr. Francis MacNutt Home - Christian Healing Ministries
"Healing" 
"Homosexuality Can it be Healed"
This practictioner and trainer in spiritual healing presents the most fair explanation of why cases are different, and why people respond differently, some changing and some not.
He also denounces fraudulent practices as damaging, in contrast with how true spiritual healing works naturally with science and medicine as a free and voluntary process.


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## emilynghiem

rdean said:


> "conversion therapy"
> 
> Republicans always like torture.  Unless they are the ones being tortured.



Fraudulent forced conversion that is abusive
is NOT the same
as freely elected spiritual healing that addresses abuses and unnatural symptoms related.

These are totally different, complete opposites!

Spiritual healing is based on forgiveness which is freely chosen
and has a NATURAL healing effect on mind, body and relationships.

rdean, I even had a friend experience the "spiritual healing" process of forgiveness
and then COME OUT AS TRANSGENDER after he was healed of guilt and anger.

So that is how powerful the forgiveness and healing is.
Whatever is someone's NATURAL state, that is what they return to.
it is NOT converting someone to something they are not
(those false conditions based on fear are what spiritual healing seeks to REMOVE)

My friend admitted he was born with a female personality,
knew it all along but suppressed it because of social expectations,
and only after he forgave and let go of fear and judgment 
did he reclaim his true self.


----------



## emilynghiem

healthmyths said:


> Zmrzlina said:
> 
> 
> 
> What consenting individuals do in the bedroom is their business alone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it may NOT be between consenting people... if one of the gay's has a problem why is he being forced into sex?
> Of course you don't know what the situations are so you can't comment about "consenting"...
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
Click to expand...


I agree HM and would take it further.
That the sex involved in unwanted pregnancies, unwanted abortion, unwanted children
is not fully consensual either, where the people did not really want the pregnancy.
If the sex was CONDITIONED on the premise that no pregnancy occurs, then it is not fully wanted unconditionally by both partners.

People have very little concept of what CONSENT truly means
because we bully and coerce and compromise all the time.

Look at our political system: how much of the laws that pass
do we really CONSENT to? Very few. So it's no wonder people have no concept!

This issue of Consent affects society in more areas than just sex.


----------



## emilynghiem

Moonglow said:


> Why is the straight community afraid of "conversion therapy"?



The reports we hear about in the media involve cruel psychological torture, punishment, abuse using force, fear based and guilt tactics.

So this is blamed on religious groups which is an easy target and popular scapegoat to label.

What ISN'T so easily heard or researched
are the effective methods of spiritual healing that DON'T
involve abuse but do the opposite by HEALING abuse
through forgiveness and recovery therapy.

Because recovery can take 10 to 20 years in extreme cases of overcoming abuse/addiction,
we don't hear about the successful recovery, only the abusive fraud that fails.

In general, people today are so afraid to credit the Christian or religious right/conservative
with ANYTHING they may be right about, for FEAR they will abuse it to IMPOSE religious doctrines and practices.

So it is more common to reject and denounce religious beliefs or practices to counteract the history or risk of more imposition.


----------



## sealybobo

healthmyths said:


> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.



Don't forget us hetero's that are pro lgbt.  The reason we hate this is because it makes people who are born gay hate themselves.  I just saw a wonderful story about a transgender woman/man who was born a boy but was clearly a woman trapped in a boys body and his church told him it was a sin and he tried to kill himself.  Today, without the sadistic fucking church she's doing great.  Fuck religion.  It's holding us back in so many ways.  

If you are bi sexual then you can date whoever you want.  You shouldn't need therapy.  Just choose.  

But if you are struggling then that's just society fucking with you and what do they know?  Look at them.  Remember people who live in glass houses.  

Straight people.  What are the 7 deadly sins?  Why don't you focus on those sins, YOUR sins?  Why you got to worry about gays?


----------



## emilynghiem

healthmyths said:


> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.



1a) they are spiritually born to live as one orientation without changing
1b) they are spiritually born to change orientation within the same lifetime
These can be influenced by either nature or nurture. What makes the difference is what is someone's spiritual path in life and experiences in the process of growth over generations.
Studies on twins show a HIGHER correlation (53 to 47%) of twins being the same orientation.
Since it is NOT 100% it is not genetic alone.

2a) the behavior/attraction is natural for them  (whether heterosexual or homosexual)
2b) the behavior is unnatural and caused by abuse or other factors in this lifetime
(abuse is not freely chosen, some factors may be chosen or a mix of both)
2c) the behavior caused by spiritual karma NOT from this lifetime
(and may be natural or unnatural, heterosexual or homosexual)

Some behavior may be natural and not abusive, some may be abusive of relationships,
and some may be so abusive and sick as an unnatural criminally addiction or illness.

The issue is the ABUSE factor, which is independent of orientation.


----------



## BobPlumb

rdean said:


> BobPlumb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did Anne Heche receive this therapy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course.  She was forced to bob for apples.
Click to expand...


Just wondering since she made the switch.  Of course that could just mean she is bisexual.


----------



## Goddess_Ashtara

I have my own form of "conversion therapy" that I sometimes inflict on "straight" males.  Its called "forced feminization"


----------



## emilynghiem

BobPlumb said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BobPlumb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did Anne Heche receive this therapy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course.  She was forced to bob for apples.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just wondering since she made the switch.  Of course that could just mean she is bisexual.
Click to expand...


Heche stated she was "insane" for the first 31 years of her life, *and that this was triggered by being sexually abused by her father during her infancy and childhood.* [49][50] In a series of interviews with Barbara Walters, Matt Lauer, and Larry King to promote Call Me Crazy in 2001, Heche stated on national television that she created a fantasy world called the "Fourth Dimension" to make herself feel safe, and had an alter ego who was the daughter of God and half-sister of Jesus Christ named "Celestia", who had contacts with extraterrestrial life forms.[46][51] Heche said she recovered from her insanity following the incident in Cantua Creek and has put her alter ego behind her.[4]

Anne Heche - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please note that sexual abuse is in her family history.

Until such abuse is fully healed, it's hard to assess where a person is
because they can still be undergoing changes in stages of recovery.


----------



## Inevitable

​


healthmyths said:


> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> 
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.


That is a false dilemma. As well as a burden of proof fallacy. 

The false dilemma you have presented is that there are only two possibilities, this is logicalfallacy.

You have also made a claim that you have them said the burden of proof rests on others to prove your claim wrong. That also is a logical fallacy.  That isn't even touching your straw man fallacy.


----------



## GreenBean

occupied said:


> I wonder if there is a conversion therapy for willfully ignorant people. .....



I think you should be the first test subject .


----------



## GreenBean

healthmyths said:


> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.





> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality



Unlike conversion therapy  - this is an unproven theory with very litlle merit. There is miniscule scientific evidence to support it  - Not Zero evidence  -  but pretty darn close to zero.



> 2) The behavior is learned.



If by "learned" - you are trying to say that someone taught them to be Gay - also highly unlikely.  But it is closer to the Truth than the first option in that it is an acquired trait , not an inherited one. 

Mounting evidence tends to indicate the sexual dysphoria a/k/a homosexuality is the result of early chldhood trauma and oedipous issues.  Early Childhood trauma could be pre-pubescent or even pre-cognizant repressed memories of abuse or perceived abuse- sometimes of a sexual nature ,  sometimes not.


----------



## Inevitable

GreenBean said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unlike conversion therapy  - this is an unproven theory with very litlle merit. There is miniscule scientific evidence to support it  - Not Zero evidence  -  but pretty darn close to zero.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If by "learned" - you are trying to say that someone taught them to be Gay - also highly unlikely.  But it is closer to the Truth than the first option in that it is an acquired trait , not an inherited one.
> 
> Mounting evidence tends to indicate the sexual dysphoria a/k/a homosexuality is the result of early chldhood trauma and oedipous issues.  Early Childhood trauma could be pre-pubescent or even pre-cognizant repressed memories of abuse or perceived abuse- sometimes of a sexual nature ,  sometimes not.
Click to expand...

There is very little evidence supporting your claim. 

Also, dysphoria means a feeling of being unwell. Placing the term sexual in front of it would mean you are unwell with your sex, that would be a description of transgender people. Homosexuals aren't normally uncomfortable with their sex. 

Do you have any evidence to back up this claim that trauma during childhood is understood as a leading cause?


----------



## GreenBean

Inevitable said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike conversion therapy  - this is an unproven theory with very litlle merit. There is miniscule scientific evidence to support it  - Not Zero evidence  -  but pretty darn close to zero.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If by "learned" - you are trying to say that someone taught them to be Gay - also highly unlikely.  But it is closer to the Truth than the first option in that it is an acquired trait , not an inherited one.
> 
> Mounting evidence tends to indicate the sexual dysphoria a/k/a homosexuality is the result of early chldhood trauma and oedipous issues.  Early Childhood trauma could be pre-pubescent or even pre-cognizant repressed memories of abuse or perceived abuse- sometimes of a sexual nature ,  sometimes not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any evidence to back up this claim that trauma during childhood is understood as a leading cause?
Click to expand...


Greetings inevitable,  I see your new here and haven't yet learned how to be a nasty snide little gutter snipe like most of us - so *your courtesy warrants some respect*.  I thanked your post.



> There is very little evidence supporting your claim.
> 
> Also, dysphoria means a feeling of being unwell. Placing the term sexual in front of it would mean you are unwell with your sex, that would be a description of transgender people. Homosexuals aren't normally uncomfortable with their sex.



Dysphoria which is the verbal  opposite of euphoria,  is a termed used in the mental health field to describe a condition in which a person experiences  feelings of anxiety, depression, and discontent,not only with themselves but the world around them.

Gender dysphoria refers to a diagnosis made by mental health professionals to describe persons who experience discontent with the sex they were born as and/or the roles society assigns to that sex. [transgender]  Gender incongruence is a recently intriduced term also. 

So far as "dysphoria means a feeling of being unwell" - That is the whole basis of the debate - Homosexuals in general have a feeling of being unwell, *because they are unwell.* They are demented variations from the sexual norm.  The feeling of unwellness stems from a number of theoretical sources, Gay apologists and those striving for political correctness are fond of balming their dysphoria on societal oppression - which is an argument that has some credibility .



> Do you have any evidence to back up this claim that trauma during childhood is understood as a leading cause?



Although I applauded your courtesy, I can't applaud your knowledge, I won't call you stupid - because you're courteous and eloquent - but lets see what happens to you in another Month 
or so 

That's an assertion that shouldn't even have to be defended- in fact it's not an opinion but a fact acknowledged even by the high priesthood of Homosexual Propaganda .



> The bible of Gay Media Manipulators, a brilliant book *After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 90's* by two devious homosexuals, Marshall Kirk, a researcher in neuropsychiatry and Hunter Madsen .   This powerfully persuasive, perverse and popular 1989 book presents an impassioned plea, for homosexual activists to implement an aggressive, concerted and organized campaign to mold public perceptions. It is basically a blueprint for the Gay Agenda, it makes the following statement
> 
> *We argue that for all practical purposes, gays should be considered to have been born gay, even though sexual orientation, for most humans, seems to be the product of a complex interaction between innate predispositions and environmental factors during childhood and early adolescence* (page 184); Being Gay is Sick



So far as your challenge - I could probably fill a few pages with quotes adding wieghht to my assertion,but being that you feel comfortable challenging [ trauma during childhood is understood as a leading cause]  without any supporting evidence other than your opinion -please feel free to come back at me with whatever you can google up .


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Wow. 

Just look at all these authorities on homosexuality ... 

... most of whom haven't a frikken clue.


----------



## Inevitable

GreenBean said:


> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike conversion therapy  - this is an unproven theory with very litlle merit. There is miniscule scientific evidence to support it  - Not Zero evidence  -  but pretty darn close to zero.
> 
> 
> 
> If by "learned" - you are trying to say that someone taught them to be Gay - also highly unlikely.  But it is closer to the Truth than the first option in that it is an acquired trait , not an inherited one.
> 
> Mounting evidence tends to indicate the sexual dysphoria a/k/a homosexuality is the result of early chldhood trauma and oedipous issues.  Early Childhood trauma could be pre-pubescent or even pre-cognizant repressed memories of abuse or perceived abuse- sometimes of a sexual nature ,  sometimes not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any evidence to back up this claim that trauma during childhood is understood as a leading cause?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Greetings inevitable,  I see your new here and haven't yet learned how to be a nasty snide little gutter snipe like most of us - so *your courtesy warrants some respect*.  I thanked your post.
> 
> 
> 
> Dysphoria which is the verbal  opposite of euphoria,  is a termed used in the mental health field to describe a condition in which a person experiences  feelings of anxiety, depression, and discontent,not only with themselves but the world around them.
> 
> Gender dysphoria refers to a diagnosis made by mental health professionals to describe persons who experience discontent with the sex they were born as and/or the roles society assigns to that sex. [transgender]  Gender incongruence is a recently intriduced term also.
> 
> So far as "dysphoria means a feeling of being unwell" - That is the whole basis of the debate - Homosexuals in general have a feeling of being unwell, *because they are unwell.* They are demented variations from the sexual norm.  The feeling of unwellness stems from a number of theoretical sources, Gay apologists and those striving for political correctness are fond of balming their dysphoria on societal oppression - which is an argument that has some credibility .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any evidence to back up this claim that trauma during childhood is understood as a leading cause?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Although I applauded your courtesy, I can't applaud your knowledge, I won't call you stupid - because you're courteous and eloquent - but lets see what happens to you in another Month
> or so
> 
> That's an assertion that shouldn't even have to be defended- in fact it's not an opinion but a fact acknowledged even by the high priesthood of Homosexual Propaganda .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The bible of Gay Media Manipulators, a brilliant book *After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 90's* by two devious homosexuals, Marshall Kirk, a researcher in neuropsychiatry and Hunter Madsen .   This powerfully persuasive, perverse and popular 1989 book presents an impassioned plea, for homosexual activists to implement an aggressive, concerted and organized campaign to mold public perceptions. It is basically a blueprint for the Gay Agenda, it makes the following statement
> 
> *We argue that for all practical purposes, gays should be considered to have been born gay, even though sexual orientation, for most humans, seems to be the product of a complex interaction between innate predispositions and environmental factors during childhood and early adolescence* (page 184);
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So far as your challenge - I could probably fill a few pages with quotes adding wieghht to my assertion,but being that you feel comfortable challenging [ trauma during childhood is understood as a leading cause]  without any supporting evidence other than your opinion -please feel free to come back at me with whatever you can google up .
Click to expand...

No, you made the claim, you have to prove it. I have challanged your claim. I have no claim to prove.  Why would I come back at you with something. You made a claim. I am asking you to prove it. 

As far as your use of the term dysphoria, it still isn't the appropriate use.


----------



## GreenBean

Inevitable said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any evidence to back up this claim that trauma during childhood is understood as a leading cause?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Greetings inevitable,  I see your new here and haven't yet learned how to be a nasty snide little gutter snipe like most of us - so *your courtesy warrants some respect*.  I thanked your post.
> 
> 
> 
> Dysphoria which is the verbal  opposite of euphoria,  is a termed used in the mental health field to describe a condition in which a person experiences  feelings of anxiety, depression, and discontent,not only with themselves but the world around them.
> 
> Gender dysphoria refers to a diagnosis made by mental health professionals to describe persons who experience discontent with the sex they were born as and/or the roles society assigns to that sex. [transgender]  Gender incongruence is a recently intriduced term also.
> 
> So far as "dysphoria means a feeling of being unwell" - That is the whole basis of the debate - Homosexuals in general have a feeling of being unwell, *because they are unwell.* They are demented variations from the sexual norm.  The feeling of unwellness stems from a number of theoretical sources, Gay apologists and those striving for political correctness are fond of balming their dysphoria on societal oppression - which is an argument that has some credibility .
> 
> 
> 
> Although I applauded your courtesy, I can't applaud your knowledge, I won't call you stupid - because you're courteous and eloquent - but lets see what happens to you in another Month
> or so
> 
> That's an assertion that shouldn't even have to be defended- in fact it's not an opinion but a fact acknowledged even by the high priesthood of Homosexual Propaganda .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The bible of Gay Media Manipulators, a brilliant book *After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 90's* by two devious homosexuals, Marshall Kirk, a researcher in neuropsychiatry and Hunter Madsen .   This powerfully persuasive, perverse and popular 1989 book presents an impassioned plea, for homosexual activists to implement an aggressive, concerted and organized campaign to mold public perceptions. It is basically a blueprint for the Gay Agenda, it makes the following statement
> 
> *We argue that for all practical purposes, gays should be considered to have been born gay, even though sexual orientation, for most humans, seems to be the product of a complex interaction between innate predispositions and environmental factors during childhood and early adolescence* (page 184);
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So far as your challenge - I could probably fill a few pages with quotes adding wieghht to my assertion,but being that you feel comfortable challenging [ trauma during childhood is understood as a leading cause]  without any supporting evidence other than your opinion -please feel free to come back at me with whatever you can google up .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have challanged your claim. I have no claim to prove.  Why would I come back at you with something. You made a claim. I am asking you to prove it.
Click to expand...




> No, you made the claim, you have to prove it.


[/QUOTE]

LifeSiteNews Mobile | Study: Homosexuality Linked with Childhood Trauma


Ex-Gay Advocates Claim Homosexuality Is Caused By Parental Abuse | ThinkProgress

Study: Homosexuality Linked with Childhood Trauma

Homosexuality: Another Example of Trauma Conditioning

Homosexuality is Caused By Childhood Trauma - CafeMom

People Can Change: Resources

Homosexuality: The Use of Scientific Research in the Church's Moral Debate

The problem with the believe that abuse causes homosexuality



> I have no claim to prove.



Yes you do - a debate is a two way street - 



> As far as your use of the term dysphoria, it still isn't the appropriate use.



Uhhh -yes it is - perhaps not to you - because you dislike the implications - ---In fact when the Gay controlled APA first removed Homosexuality from the DSM  - it was initially reclassified as  sexual dysphoria .  *Just Curious Are you Gay ? *


----------



## Inevitable

GreenBean said:


> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> Greetings inevitable,  I see your new here and haven't yet learned how to be a nasty snide little gutter snipe like most of us - so *your courtesy warrants some respect*.  I thanked your post.
> 
> 
> 
> Dysphoria which is the verbal  opposite of euphoria,  is a termed used in the mental health field to describe a condition in which a person experiences  feelings of anxiety, depression, and discontent,not only with themselves but the world around them.
> 
> Gender dysphoria refers to a diagnosis made by mental health professionals to describe persons who experience discontent with the sex they were born as and/or the roles society assigns to that sex. [transgender]  Gender incongruence is a recently intriduced term also.
> 
> So far as "dysphoria means a feeling of being unwell" - That is the whole basis of the debate - Homosexuals in general have a feeling of being unwell, *because they are unwell.* They are demented variations from the sexual norm.  The feeling of unwellness stems from a number of theoretical sources, Gay apologists and those striving for political correctness are fond of balming their dysphoria on societal oppression - which is an argument that has some credibility .
> 
> 
> 
> Although I applauded your courtesy, I can't applaud your knowledge, I won't call you stupid - because you're courteous and eloquent - but lets see what happens to you in another Month
> or so
> 
> That's an assertion that shouldn't even have to be defended- in fact it's not an opinion but a fact acknowledged even by the high priesthood of Homosexual Propaganda .
> 
> 
> 
> So far as your challenge - I could probably fill a few pages with quotes adding wieghht to my assertion,but being that you feel comfortable challenging [ trauma during childhood is understood as a leading cause]  without any supporting evidence other than your opinion -please feel free to come back at me with whatever you can google up .
> 
> 
> 
> I have challanged your claim. I have no claim to prove.  Why would I come back at you with something. You made a claim. I am asking you to prove it.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


LifeSiteNews Mobile | Study: Homosexuality Linked with Childhood Trauma


Ex-Gay Advocates Claim Homosexuality Is Caused By Parental Abuse | ThinkProgress

Study: Homosexuality Linked with Childhood Trauma

Homosexuality: Another Example of Trauma Conditioning

Homosexuality is Caused By Childhood Trauma - CafeMom

People Can Change: Resources

Homosexuality: The Use of Scientific Research in the Church's Moral Debate

The problem with the believe that abuse causes homosexuality



> I have no claim to prove.





> Yes you do - a debate is a two way street -


No I did not make any claim. I simply challenged yours.



> As far as your use of the term dysphoria, it still isn't the appropriate use.





> Uhhh -yes it is - perhaps not to you


No sir, it is not. Sex refers to whether you are male or female the term sexual is in regards to your sex. Dysphoria with sex would mean you aren't comfortable or you aren't well with your sex.



> - because you dislike the implications


Hyperbole is a logicalfallacy. 





> ---In fact when the Gay controlled APA


Special pleading is logical fallacy, if this isn't specialpleading than it is a false cause fallacy. Unless you have credible proof supporting this rather bizarre conspiracy theory.


> first removed Homosexuality from the DSM  - it was initially reclassified as  sexual dysphoria .


It was clearly improperly named. 





> *Just Curious Are you Gay ? *


I don't answer personalquestions on the internet. 

You linked lifesitenews twice it's just that the arrival was borrowed from another place.  I am skeptical of it's claims. Everything else you linked is unsupported opinion


----------



## PoliticalTorch

You ask why the Gay Community is afraid of Conversion Therapy? Well, it should be intuitively obvious to the most casual observer that the short answer to that is that it is DANGEROUS and that it does not work. Included are really good websites many with references to medical, psychiatric, psychological, and other associations and organizations that speak of the ineffectiveness of Gay Conversion Therapy. Please read ALL of them so that you can thoroughly understand why the Gay Community will not use that stuff. 

Former Love In Action Director John Smid: Homosexuality Is Not a Choice and Can?t Be Changed | Truth Wins Out 

The Lies and Dangers of Efforts to Change Sexual Orientation or Gender Identity | Resources | Human Rights Campaign 

All 50 States Should Protect LGBT Youth From ?Ex-Gay? Charlatans | Truth Wins Out 

5 Things You Should Know About Gay Conversion Therapy


----------



## Noomi

The only reason conservatives push for gay conversion therapy is because they are deathly afraid of homosexuals.


----------



## GreenBean

Inevitable said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have challanged your claim. I have no claim to prove.  Why would I come back at you with something. You made a claim. I am asking you to prove it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LifeSiteNews Mobile | Study: Homosexuality Linked with Childhood Trauma
> 
> 
> Ex-Gay Advocates Claim Homosexuality Is Caused By Parental Abuse | ThinkProgress
> 
> Study: Homosexuality Linked with Childhood Trauma
> 
> Homosexuality: Another Example of Trauma Conditioning
> 
> Homosexuality is Caused By Childhood Trauma - CafeMom
> 
> People Can Change: Resources
> 
> Homosexuality: The Use of Scientific Research in the Church's Moral Debate
> 
> The problem with the believe that abuse causes homosexuality
> 
> 
> 
> No I did not make any claim. I simply challenged yours.
> 
> 
> 
> No sir, it is not. Sex refers to whether you are male or female the term sexual is in regards to your sex. Dysphoria with sex would mean you aren't comfortable or you aren't well with your sex.
> 
> Hyperbole is a logicalfallacy. Special pleading is logical fallacy, if this isn't specialpleading than it is a false cause fallacy. Unless you have credible proof supporting this rather bizarre conspiracy theory.
> 
> 
> 
> first removed Homosexuality from the DSM  - it was initially reclassified as  sexual dysphoria .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was clearly improperly named.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Just Curious Are you Gay ? *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't answer personalquestions on the internet.
> 
> You linked lifesitenews twice it's just that the arrival was borrowed from another place.  I am skeptical of it's claims. Everything else you linked is unsupported opinion
Click to expand...


I realize you are new , but kindly familiarize with the use of quotes and quote boxes , you have them somewhat fouled up -I know what I said - you know what you said but - this is an open forum and others may be a tad confused.

1. You state you have no claim to prove - but you do - and apparently are unable to - see you're learning newby , in no time what so ever you'll be just another cynical clueless left wing asshole - completely confortable wit the art of deflecting.

    A. You state - "No I did not make any claim. I simply challenged yours."   but you did
         make a few unsubtantiated claims such as the improper use of the word "Dysphoria"

----------------------------------------------

2. Inevitable: As far as your use of the term dysphoria, it still isn't the appropriate use.

Greenbean:  Uhhh -yes it is - perhaps not to you - because you dislike the implications - ---In fact when the Gay controlled APA first removed Homosexuality from the DSM - it was initially reclassified as sexual dysphoria . 

Inevitable: No sir, it is not. Sex refers to whether you are male or female the term sexual is in regards to your sex. Dysphoria with sex would mean you aren't comfortable or you aren't well with your sex.    

*NOW : Greenbean:  The word sex can be used as both a noun and a verb - it can be used to denote Gender or it can used to denote an act.  In the case of a man and a woman mating - they are "having Sex"  - in the case of two perverts getting it on they are having "Gay Sex"  or more correctly termed - they are sodomizing each other - *Capice ?*

Greenbean: -In fact when the Gay controlled APA first removed Homosexuality from the DSM - it was initially reclassified as sexual dysphoria .

Inevitable: It was clearly improperly named.

*NOW : Greenbean:   That's your Opinion - back it up or shut it up. 

Greenbean: Just Curious Are you Gay ?

Inevitable: I don't answer personal questions on the internet.

*NOW : Greenbean: You just did -you're a Fag 
--------------------------------



> You linked lifesitenews twice it's just that the arrival was borrowed from another place. I am skeptical of it's claims. Everything else you linked is unsupported opinion



You say it's opinion - you just made a claim - prove it


----------



## GreenBean

healthmyths said:


> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.



As is generally the case the OP on this thread has strayed off in several different directions. The OP being Conversion therapy.

Conversion therapy, Ex Gay or reparative therapy is primarily promoted by the mental health organization, NARTH. NARTH teaches that homosexuality is abnormal, unnatural,undesirable and changeable sexual behavior. 

Complete data on conversion theapy is quite often withheld or suppressed. This makes the actual success rate of conversion therapy difficult to guage with any real degree of accuracy. However, several studies have revealed sufficient data which can be utilized to arrive at crude estimate of the conversion success rate:

Studies on conversion therapy for unwanted homosexual attractions yield varying success rates, ranging from 30%-70%, these rates are no different than success rates for other therapeutic practices - However the other therapeutic practices, such as substance abuse and assorted phobias and fetishes are not politically incorrect - criticizing the Gay Agenda and lifestyle is.

A key word in the preceding statement is "unwanted homosexual attractions"  - as is the case with other therapeutic practices - treating somebody who doesn't want to be treated and believes they are confortable with their malady is statistically doomed to failure 

Being politically charged , politically correct science [Bad Science] will frequently totally disregard the facts,  and the agenda of he who shouts the loudest wins.

Socio-Fascists are currently blatantly promoting homosexuality, it is surmised as part of Big Brothers concerted effort to expedite the disintegration of the family structure and reduce the surplus population/ curtail population growth. 

So Why is the gay community afraid of "conversion therapy" 

It is an admission that their sexual dysphoria -homosexuality is abnormal and something which needs to be treated.  If there is no disease , there should not be a need for a cure .
The succes of Conversion Therapy, is the failure of the Gay Agenda - it flies in the face of their ideological agenda and propaganda.

Conversion Therapy is far from the voo-doo quackery preached by the politically correct socio-fascists and useful idiots - it is a viable and effective method of treating a psychologiocally degenerative disease - Homosexuality


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Noomi said:


> The only reason conservatives push for gay conversion therapy is because they are deathly afraid of homosexuals.



And of their own sexuality. 

They're screwed up so they want to screw up others. 

And they are completely opposed to personal and basic human rights.

The worst is that they believe they have the right to impose their craziness on others.


----------



## JakeStarkey

*The gay community has no need to discuss "conversion therapy" 

The hetero-fascist community has no moral right to discuss "conversion therapy" *


----------



## healthmyths

JakeStarkey said:


> *The gay community has no need to discuss "conversion therapy"
> 
> The hetero-fascist community has no moral right to discuss "conversion therapy" *



Funny but looked ALL through the US Constitution... for "moral rights"... didn't see anything!

Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and by many state constitutions and state and federal laws. 
Criticism of the government and advocacy of unpopular ideas that people may find distasteful or against public policy are almost always permitted. 
There are exceptions to these general protections, including the Miller test for obscenity, child pornography laws, speech that incites imminent lawless action, and regulation of commercial speech such as advertising.
Freedom of speech in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NOT one word regarding abridging my right to discuss "conversion therapy"!

But of course people that discuss "moral rights" should heed the old dictum  "'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye? "


----------



## TheJedi

healthmyths said:


> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.



OK. First of all there is a consensus amongst medical and mental health professionals that homosexuality is NOT a learned behavior. Is not about genetics either. It is about brain chemistry. The same place where gender dysphoria comes from. It can also manifest itself in people who have had traumatic childhood sexual abuse but, in most cases, it is about how one's brain is wired.

That being said, this link will educate you:

The Lies and Dangers of Efforts to Change Sexual Orientation or Gender Identity | Resources | Human Rights Campaign


----------



## TheJedi

GreenBean said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As is generally the case the OP on this thread has strayed off in several different directions. The OP being Conversion therapy.
> 
> Conversion therapy, Ex Gay or reparative therapy is primarily promoted by the mental health organization, NARTH. NARTH teaches that homosexuality is abnormal, unnatural,undesirable and changeable sexual behavior.
> 
> Complete data on conversion theapy is quite often withheld or suppressed. This makes the actual success rate of conversion therapy difficult to guage with any real degree of accuracy. However, several studies have revealed sufficient data which can be utilized to arrive at crude estimate of the conversion success rate:
> 
> Studies on conversion therapy for unwanted homosexual attractions yield varying success rates, ranging from 30%-70%, these rates are no different than success rates for other therapeutic practices - However the other therapeutic practices, such as substance abuse and assorted phobias and fetishes are not politically incorrect - criticizing the Gay Agenda and lifestyle is.
> 
> A key word in the preceding statement is "unwanted homosexual attractions"  - as is the case with other therapeutic practices - treating somebody who doesn't want to be treated and believes they are confortable with their malady is statistically doomed to failure
> 
> Being politically charged , politically correct science [Bad Science] will frequently totally disregard the facts,  and the agenda of he who shouts the loudest wins.
> 
> Socio-Fascists are currently blatantly promoting homosexuality, it is surmised as part of Big Brothers concerted effort to expedite the disintegration of the family structure and reduce the surplus population/ curtail population growth.
> 
> So Why is the gay community afraid of "conversion therapy"
> 
> It is an admission that their sexual dysphoria -homosexuality is abnormal and something which needs to be treated.  If there is no disease , there should not be a need for a cure .
> The succes of Conversion Therapy, is the failure of the Gay Agenda - it flies in the face of their ideological agenda and propaganda.
> 
> Conversion Therapy is far from the voo-doo quackery preached by the politically correct socio-fascists and useful idiots - it is a viable and effective method of treating a psychologiocally degenerative disease - Homosexuality
Click to expand...


NARTH is a religiously motivated, propagandist organization that has zero credibility in the world of psychology.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/spring/queer-science

National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From the Wiki:



> Position of professional organizations on sexual orientation change efforts
> Main article: Sexual orientation change efforts
> 
> In 2009 an American Psychological Association research summary[29] included the following statements:
> 
> The longstanding consensus of the behavioral and social sciences and the health and mental health professions is that homosexuality per se is a normal and positive variation of human sexual orientation.
> 
> SOCE [sexual orientation change efforts] has been controversial due to tensions between the values held by some faith-based organizations, on the one hand, and those held by lesbian, gay and bisexual rights organizations and professional and scientific organizations, on the other.
> 
> *There are no studies of adequate scientific rigor to conclude whether recent SOCE do work to change a person&#8217;s sexual orientation.*
> 
> Some individuals and groups have promoted the idea of homosexuality as symptomatic of developmental defects or spiritual and moral failings and have argued that SOCE, including psychotherapy and religious efforts, could alter homosexual feelings and behaviors. Many of these individuals and groups appeared to be embedded within the larger context of conservative religious political movements that have supported the stigmatization of homosexuality on political or religious grounds.
> 
> *No major mental health professional organization has sanctioned efforts to change sexual orientation and most of them have adopted policy statements cautioning the profession and the public about treatments that purport to change sexual orientation. These include the American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, American Counseling Association, National Association of Social Workers in the USA,[30] Royal College of Psychiatrists,[31] and Australian Psychological Society.[32]*
> 
> The American Psychological Association and the Royal College of Psychiatrists expressed concerns that the positions espoused by NARTH are not supported by science and create an environment in which prejudice and discrimination can flourish.[31][33]


----------



## jillian

healthmyths said:


> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.



how would you feel about conversion therapy to force you to like men sexually?

not so hot, right?

of course, it would be amusing to try.... right?


----------



## PoliticalTorch

JakeStarkey said:


> *The gay community has no need to discuss "conversion therapy"
> 
> The hetero-fascist community has no moral right to discuss "conversion therapy" *


Jake, you're so right about that! There is no need for Gays and Lesbians to change the way they were born and the way they are and whom they love. But you also have to realize that the "hetero-fascist community", great term for them by the way, has to keep harping away on this one issue because that's all they have. They can't solve the problems of this country, they have no new ideas for moving the country forward, so all they know is obstructionism and they excel at that! So, they pick on a minority group, Blacks, Latinos and Hispanics included, and they find people who oppose those folks also and who are unfortunately as narrow-minded as they are who will blindly follow them like the pied piper since their mentality apparently knows no better, being cut pretty much from the same fabric. Never mind the harm they are doing to those groups, they are only after them for the votes they hope to get from them and then it's Adios Amigos!


----------



## emilynghiem

Noomi said:


> The only reason conservatives push for gay conversion therapy is because they are deathly afraid of homosexuals.



????

1. Then why has the Gay "Log Cabin Republicans" been a successful membership, outreach and lobbying group for 30 years?

Why aren't they banned or kicked out?
Even the Democrats gave up on a candidate that was LaRouchian, and voted to exclude from procedures in the convention.

2. Why did the Republicans agree to change the traditional platform to REMOVE
the language against "homosexuality" and change it to "sexual sins" that are unraveling the fabric of society.

How did THAT get removed from the platform?

  [MENTION=38085]Noomi[/MENTION] people can be AGAINST "progay politics" and NOT be anti-gay.

There are GAYS who are against the gay politics that are discriminatory and going too far.

Are you implying that if these GAYS are against political legislation
then they are AFRAID of GAYS? 
What's wrong with being against the POLITICS imposing bad laws!

There is a HUGE difference!

I'm also against bad laws whether these are too biased prochoice or prolife and aren't fair or effective, but damaging.
I'm not FOR abortion and I'm not AGAINST choice.
I'm against the biased political abuses "excluding or dividing" these groups,
which I believe ALL deserve equal treatment and inclusion under law.

So anything discriminatory and punitive, I oppose and want replaced with better laws
that people AGREE are well written and solve problems instead of creating more conflict!

Thanks, Noomi!


----------



## GISMYS

God let go of them and let them do all these evil things, so that even their women turned against God&#8217;s natural plan for them and indulged in sex sin with each other.  27 And the men, instead of having normal sex relationships with women, burned with lust for each other, men doing shameful things with other men and, as a result,   Romans 1:24-27 TAKE SPECIAL NOTE== SEXUAL PERVERTS=Getting paid within their own souls with the penalty they so richly deserved.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

It seeks to propagate the ignorant, hateful lie that being gay is a "mental illness" or something to be "cured," when in fact it is not


----------



## emilynghiem

Whoa two birds with one stone
 [MENTION=49463]PoliticalTorch[/MENTION] and [MENTION=20412]JakeStarkey[/MENTION]

Do you want to set up a Bullring challenge:
* that there IS a natural therapy for recovery from sexual abuse that
has effectively changed people's orientations to whatever is NATURAL for them.
* that this discussion and distinction between ABUSIVE FRAUDULENT practice
and NATURAL HEALING that is consistent with science and medicine as beneficial
IS a positive subject for exploration, RESEARCH, and understanding for the public?

If I challenge both of you at the same time,
and if I can prove that there IS BENEFIT to both
* NATURAL spiritual healing and recovery therapy (NOT fraudulent forced or abusive practices that the EFFECTIVE METHODS demonstrate the DIFFERENCE between)
* and the DISCUSSION, RESEARCH and PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE of this difference

Will you both agree to post a public apology for your misjudgment and misconception
of the DIFFERENCE between natural spiritual healing versus fraudulent harmful practices.

I have some websites set up, where I could feature your statements and explanations.
I am ready to promote research into the DIFFERENCE between natural therapy and unnatural abuses.

Would you two care to step into the Bullring
if you truly believe there is no truth to what I offer?



PoliticalTorch said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The gay community has no need to discuss "conversion therapy"
> 
> The hetero-fascist community has no moral right to discuss "conversion therapy" *
> 
> 
> 
> Jake, you're so right about that! There is no need for Gays and Lesbians to change the way they were born and the way they are and whom they love. But you also have to realize that the "hetero-fascist community", great term for them by the way, has to keep harping away on this one issue because that's all they have. They can't solve the problems of this country, they have no new ideas for moving the country forward, so all they know is obstructionism and they excel at that! So, they pick on a minority group, Blacks, Latinos and Hispanics included, and they find people who oppose those folks also and who are unfortunately as narrow-minded as they are who will blindly follow them like the pied piper since their mentality apparently knows no better, being cut pretty much from the same fabric. Never mind the harm they are doing to those groups, they are only after them for the votes they hope to get from them and then it's Adios Amigos!
Click to expand...


----------



## GISMYS

LITTLE perverts!!! ALMIGHTY GOD MAKES THE RULES,NOT YOU!!!! ===God let go of them and let them do all these evil things, so that even their women turned against God&#8217;s natural plan for them and indulged in sex sin with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sex relationships with women, burned with lust for each other, men doing shameful things with other men and, as a result, Romans 1:24-27 TAKE SPECIAL NOTE== SEXUAL PERVERTS=Getting paid within their own souls with the penalty they so richly deserved.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

GISMYS said:


> God let go of them and let them do all these evil things, so that even their women turned against Gods natural plan for them and indulged in sex sin with each other.  27 And the men, instead of having normal sex relationships with women, burned with lust for each other, men doing shameful things with other men and, as a result,   Romans 1:24-27 TAKE SPECIAL NOTE== SEXUAL PERVERTS=Getting paid within their own souls with the penalty they so richly deserved.



And here's an example of that ignorance and hate.


----------



## emilynghiem

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> It seeks to propagate the ignorant, hateful lie that being gay is a "mental illness" or something to be "cured," when in fact it is not



 [MENTION=29614]C_Clayton_Jones[/MENTION]

If PoliticalTorch and JakeStarkey decline my invitation,
would you agree to step in? See above, thanks!

I am saying there is a DIFFERENCE between
natural therapy and unnatural abuses.

And that this discussion of the DIFFERENCE, and the research required to clarify it,
is beneficial to the public to have understanding and knowledge of.

Anyone else?
As many people as want to take on this challenge,
the more the merrier!

If this challenge goes public, I will ask help from the
Log Cabin Republicans to set up national forums to expand on this discussion,
on the DIFFERENCE between "natural and unnatural" and what distinguishes both.

A very important concept to establish!
There are no losers, everyone will win and benefit from the answers we share.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Emily, you believe it all you want.

It is not worth debating, anymore than the earth does not revolve around the sun.

Good heavens.


----------



## emilynghiem

GISMYS said:


> LITTLE perverts!!! ALMIGHTY GOD MAKES THE RULES,NOT YOU!!!! ===God let go of them and let them do all these evil things, so that even their women turned against God&#8217;s natural plan for them and indulged in sex sin with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sex relationships with women, burned with lust for each other, men doing shameful things with other men and, as a result, Romans 1:24-27 TAKE SPECIAL NOTE== SEXUAL PERVERTS=Getting paid within their own souls with the penalty they so richly deserved.



Please be it noted, Dear GISMYS
that the same deep level of divine "forgiveness" required to heal whatever
causes unnatural sexual sins addictions or abuses
ALSO would heal you and your words of your negative tone!

So whatever it is that you seek to get rid of,
it also shows in your words.

Please *speak the truth with love,* and leave the rest to the Lord.
It is not our place to judge and reject, which only begets same judgment and rejection.

Do not celebrate or gloat in such "inequity"
1 Corinthians 13:6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

The more you depart from "lack of love," and embrace God's love which rises above adverse conditions, the more you inspire others to do the same. In this, I support you!
My prayers that you are uplifted even more than before, and not tied to the ways of the past that have defeated your higher purpose,  [MENTION=42952]GISMYS[/MENTION].


----------



## GISMYS

emilynghiem said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> LITTLE perverts!!! ALMIGHTY GOD MAKES THE RULES,NOT YOU!!!! ===God let go of them and let them do all these evil things, so that even their women turned against Gods natural plan for them and indulged in sex sin with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sex relationships with women, burned with lust for each other, men doing shameful things with other men and, as a result, Romans 1:24-27 TAKE SPECIAL NOTE== SEXUAL PERVERTS=Getting paid within their own souls with the penalty they so richly deserved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please be it noted, Dear GISMYS
> that the same deep level of divine "forgiveness" required to heal whatever
> causes unnatural sexual sins addictions or abuses
> ALSO would heal you and your words of your negative tone!
> 
> So whatever it is that you seek to get rid of,
> it also shows in your words.
> 
> Please *speak the truth with love,* and leave the rest to the Lord.
> It is not our place to judge and reject, which only begets same judgment and rejection.
> 
> Do not celebrate or gloat in such "inequity"
> 1 Corinthians 13:6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
> 
> The more you depart from "lack of love," and embrace God's love which rises above adverse conditions, the more you inspire others to do the same. In this, I support you!
> My prayers that you are uplifted even more than before, and not tied to the ways of the past that have defeated your higher purpose,  [MENTION=42952]GISMYS[/MENTION].
Click to expand...


SO YOU WANT TO SAY THE WORD OF GOD TO HELL BOUND SEXUAL PERVERTS IS TOO NEGATIVE??? THINK AGAIN!!!===God let go of them and let them do all these evil things, so that even their women turned against Gods natural plan for them and indulged in sex sin with each other.  27 And the men, instead of having normal sex relationships with women, burned with lust for each other, men doing shameful things with other men and, as a result, getting paid within their own souls with the penalty they so richly deserved.


----------



## emilynghiem

JakeStarkey said:


> Emily, you believe it all you want.
> 
> It is not worth debating, anymore than the earth does not revolve around the sun.
> 
> Good heavens.



The same methods of "natural healing" can be proven by medical science
to cure cancer, schizophrenia, and other mental and physical illness.

Are you sure that is not worth researching?
Even if it would save lives or
"might save lives if it were true"
you would still dismiss it, assuming it is false.

Even if lives could be saved, you wouldn't recommend research in any such possibility?
Wow! Even an Atheist I know who hates Christians more than anything,
agreed to look into medical research. 

Are you that closeminded by politics? What makes you object so absolutely
without even considering the research that is already done and can be furthered?

I would love even to know that, Jake.
What makes the difference between people willing to look at research
and people who already assume they know it all. Wow! Very curious.

I think knowing this difference would be important in politics
in order to manage conflict resolution and "equal presentation" within "due process."

If we knew why and which factors cause negotiations to break down,
this could help perfect our democratic process! 
Thanks Jake sorry you don't see or agree with anything I'm saying.
That's even a good point to explore! 
Why does this happen? and can it be resolved?
(I might add this to the list as a third point, 
to give you a third chance not to strike out completely on all points)


----------



## emilynghiem

GISMYS said:


> SO YOU WANT TO SAY THE WORD OF GOD TO HELL BOUND SEXUAL PERVERTS IS TOO NEGATIVE??? THINK AGAIN!!!===God let go of them and let them do all these evil things, so that even their women turned against God&#8217;s natural plan for them and indulged in sex sin with each other.  27 And the men, instead of having normal sex relationships with women, burned with lust for each other, men doing shameful things with other men and, as a result, getting paid within their own souls with the penalty they so richly deserved.



Not at all my good GISMYS

I mean your spirit and temperament of YOUR WORDS is not "speaking the truth with God's perfect love"

You still impose some bias from personal "unforgiveness" or "fear" that God does not have.
Only Christ could speak and act perfectly with the will of God with no separation or bias.
He alone is perfect.

The rest of us have to "agree in Christ" for that spirit to speak through us.
In Christ we are made perfect and whole. We must reach agreement in Christ first, for that Justice and Truth to be established. Until then, we all fall short, you and I included.

There is still some bias separating you from speaking the words of God in the same spirit in which they are intended. 
You still have some of your own will and ways in there. Your own fears that are not perfect in love as God is yet.

None of us is perfect. There is only one Righteous, only one Mediator between us and God.
Your words are not perfect, your words are not a substitute, but will fall short
like all other people on the planet. We are equal in Christ, but none of us is equal to Him.


----------



## GISMYS

emilynghiem said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> SO YOU WANT TO SAY THE WORD OF GOD TO HELL BOUND SEXUAL PERVERTS IS TOO NEGATIVE??? THINK AGAIN!!!===God let go of them and let them do all these evil things, so that even their women turned against Gods natural plan for them and indulged in sex sin with each other.  27 And the men, instead of having normal sex relationships with women, burned with lust for each other, men doing shameful things with other men and, as a result, getting paid within their own souls with the penalty they so richly deserved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all my good GISMYS
> 
> I mean your spirit and temperament of YOUR WORDS is not "speaking the truth with God's perfect love"
> 
> You still impose some bias from personal "unforgiveness" or "fear" that God does not have.
> Only Christ could speak and act perfectly with the will of God with no separation or bias.
> 
> The rest of us have to "agree in Christ" for that spirit to speak through us.
> In Christ we are made perfect and whole.
> 
> There is still some bias separating you from speaking the words of God in the same spirit in which they are intended. You still have some of your own will and ways in there.
> 
> None of us is perfect. There is only one Righteous, only one Mediator between us and God.
> Your words are not perfect, your words are not a substitute, but will fall short
> like all other people on the planet. We are equal in Christ, but none of us is equal to Him.
Click to expand...


YOU ARE FREE TO HAVE YOUR OPINION BUT I REJECT YOUR OPINION,YOU ARE NOT MY JUDGE,GOD IS OUR ONLY JUDGE!!! PLEASE GOD NOT little man!!!  === You can see that I am not trying to please you by sweet talk and flattery; no, I am trying to please God. If I were still trying to please men I could not be Christs servant. Galations 1:10


----------



## JakeStarkey

When the research has come down solidly on one side or the other, the refusal to accept that, as you have, is merely immoral stubbornness.

I will leave you to it.


----------



## JakeStarkey

GISMYS said:


> YOU ARE FREE TO HAVE YOUR OPINION BUT I REJECT YOUR OPINION,YOU ARE NOT MY JUDGE,GOD IS OUR ONLY JUDGE!!! PLEASE GOD NOT little man!!!  === You can see that I am not trying to please you by sweet talk and flattery; no, I am trying to please God. If I were still trying to please men I could not be Christs servant. Galations 1:10



You have judged yourself with your own judgment, GISMYS.


----------



## GISMYS

JakeStarkey said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> YOU ARE FREE TO HAVE YOUR OPINION BUT I REJECT YOUR OPINION,YOU ARE NOT MY JUDGE,GOD IS OUR ONLY JUDGE!!! PLEASE GOD NOT little man!!!  === You can see that I am not trying to please you by sweet talk and flattery; no, I am trying to please God. If I were still trying to please men I could not be Christs servant. Galations 1:10
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have judged yourself with your own judgment, GISMYS.
Click to expand...


GET BEHIND ME SATAN!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can see that I am not trying to please you by sweet talk and flattery; no, I am trying to please God. If I were still trying to please men I could not be Christs servant.


----------



## JakeStarkey

GISMYS said:


> GET BEHIND ME SATAN!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can see that I am not trying to please you by sweet talk and flattery; no, I am trying to please God. If I were still trying to please men I could not be Christs servant.



Your have judged yourself with your own judgment, thus are not pleasing to God, Jesus, or man.

You have become your own God, GISMYS.


----------



## GISMYS

JakeStarkey said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> GET BEHIND ME SATAN!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can see that I am not trying to please you by sweet talk and flattery; no, I am trying to please God. If I were still trying to please men I could not be Christs servant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your have judged yourself with your own judgment, thus are not pleasing to God, Jesus, or man.
> 
> You have become your own God, GISMYS.
Click to expand...


NO!!! I AM A son OF GOD!!! PTL.


----------



## hadit

Interesting that, if you want it, you can get counseling on how to live like a gay person, how to act like a person of the opposite gender, or how to feel good about yourself even though you're attracted to your own gender, but even if you want it, you are not allowed to get counseling on how to go the other direction.


----------



## Seawytch

hadit said:


> Interesting that, if you want it, you can get counseling on how to live like a gay person, how to act like a person of the opposite gender, or how to feel good about yourself even though you're attracted to your own gender, but even if you want it, you are not allowed to get counseling on how to go the other direction.




Yes, you are. California and New Jersey said you can't make kids go to this harmful "therapy"...adults are free to fuck themselves up if they choose to.


----------



## Howey

healthmyths said:


> Conversion therapy



Since none of you nincompoop homophobic fuckwads has answered my question, here it is again"

*DOES CONVERSION THERAPY WORK ON HETEROSEXUALS TOO?*

I mean...it's obvious...if you believe it can work to "convert" a gay person, why can't it work to "convert" a straight person? 


Meanwhile, here's one for you to rub one off.








Want some more????

How about I add one in each homophobic post?


----------



## hadit

Seawytch said:


> hadit said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting that, if you want it, you can get counseling on how to live like a gay person, how to act like a person of the opposite gender, or how to feel good about yourself even though you're attracted to your own gender, but even if you want it, you are not allowed to get counseling on how to go the other direction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you are. California and New Jersey said you can't make kids go to this harmful "therapy"...adults are free to fuck themselves up if they choose to.
Click to expand...


But kids CAN be "counseled" on how to feel good about themselves despite being attracted to the same sex?  That is the point.


----------



## Pop23

Harry Dresden said:


> shart_attack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every (supposedly) "gay" man I've ever met has said he gets aroused watching heterosexual porn.
> 
> That tells me all I need to know about their supposedly genetic predisposition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lots of straight guys get turned on watching 2 woman go at it.....what does that say?.....
Click to expand...


Four boobs are better than two?

Btw, if the lesbos are ugly, even nice boobs won't help.


----------



## emilynghiem

GISMYS said:


> YOU ARE FREE TO HAVE YOUR OPINION BUT I REJECT YOUR OPINION,YOU ARE NOT MY JUDGE,GOD IS OUR ONLY JUDGE!!! PLEASE GOD NOT little man!!!  === You can see that I am not trying to please you by sweet talk and flattery; no, I am trying to please God. If I were still trying to please men I could not be Christ&#8217;s servant. Galations 1:10



You are judged as you judge others.

You are forgiven as you forgive others.

OTHERS HEAR YOU AS YOU HEAR THEM.

NOTE: It's NOT about trying to "please people"
it's about speaking effectively where they receive the message

If your words cause rejection of God, is this what you intend?

PS if you "fear" compromising God's word for "pleasing man"
then THAT is the fear that is preventing God's perfect love from speaking
which KNOWS NO FEAR. So you do fear something: you fear I am trying to
"flatter you," you FEAR compromising. Let perfect love CAST OUT all fear.

Then speak,  [MENTION=42952]GISMYS[/MENTION], from that Perfect Love which is from God, 
not from Fear which is manipulated by Satan. Get rid of all Fear!


----------



## GISMYS

emilynghiem said:


> gismys said:
> 
> 
> 
> you are free to have your opinion but i reject your opinion,you are not my judge,god is our only judge!!! Please god not little man!!!  === you can see that i am not trying to please you by sweet talk and flattery; no, i am trying to please god. If i were still trying to please men i could not be christs servant. Galations 1:10
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you are judged as you judge others.
> 
> You are forgiven as you forgive others.
> 
> Others hear you as you hear them.
> 
> Note: It's not about trying to "please people"
> it's about speaking effectively where they receive the message
> 
> if your words cause rejection of god, is this what you intend?
Click to expand...


begone satan's tool!!! Just begone!!!


----------



## GISMYS

&#9668; 2 Timothy 4:3 &#9658; 
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.  
I HAVE NO INTEREST IN BEING A EAR TICKLER!!!AND YOU??? GOD SAYS WARN MY PEOPLE!!!


----------



## emilynghiem

Howey said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conversion therapy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since none of you nincompoop homophobic fuckwads has answered my question, here it is again"
> 
> *DOES CONVERSION THERAPY WORK ON HETEROSEXUALS TOO?*
> 
> I mean...it's obvious...if you believe it can work to "convert" a gay person, why can't it work to "convert" a straight person?
Click to expand...


   [MENTION=42946]Howey[/MENTION]

*Y E S*

Spiritual healing helps people restore their NATURAL state, whatever that is spiritually.

So YES I have a friend who came out as Transgender AFTER receiving healing spiritually.
Before he was in a heterosexual marriage and unhappy suppressing guilt and blame of Christianity.

After we shared the true meaning of Christianity, and he let go of judgment and fears,
he came out as his true self, where his spiritually given personality was female.
For the first time in his life, he told me he felt God's love and knew he was loved unconditionally.

Lots of people come out and come to terms with their natural selves
after healing.

Just because you receive spiritual healing, doesn't mean you convert
to Christianity, other religions or orientations. That is NOT the point.
You come to peace with who you are, whatever that is which is between you and God.
And FORGIVE and heal whatever was unforgiven, conflicted, or blocking you from peace.


----------



## emilynghiem

GISMYS said:


> begone satan's tool!!! Just begone!!!



Again, spoken from fear, not from love.
Do you even know the difference?

If all this time you only focus on FEARING God
What do you know of LOVING God?

Where is that LOVE of God in you [MENTION=42952]GISMYS[/MENTION]?
I see the fear, but where is the love?


----------



## GISMYS

emilynghiem said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> begone satan's tool!!! Just begone!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, spoken from fear, not from love.
> Do you even know the difference?
> 
> If all this time you only focus on FEARING God
> What do you know of LOVING God?
> 
> Where is that LOVE of God in you [MENTION=42952]GISMYS[/MENTION]?
> I see the fear, but where is the love?
Click to expand...


ROFLMAO!!! THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM!!! I HAVE POSTED MANY TIMES THAT BELIEVERS LOVE THE SINNER BUT HATE HIS SIN!!! NOW I ASK YOU! WHAT WILL YOU PAY FOR ALLOWING SATAN TO use you as his tool,fool,puppet here??? BEGONE SATAN!!!


----------



## emilynghiem

GISMYS said:


> &#9668; 2 Timothy 4:3 &#9658;
> For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
> I HAVE NO INTEREST IN BEING A EAR TICKLER!!!AND YOU??? GOD SAYS WARN MY PEOPLE!!!



Neither do I
I am not trying to "tickle" your ear
but warn you gently where you can
better speak the Word of God with Love 
not fear

More Wisdom and Power to you [MENTION=42952]GISMYS[/MENTION]
I support your calling from God, not oppose it in any way.

Whatever fear is telling you otherwise, tell Satan to depart of such tricks.
It isn't coming from me, because I support you as having a calling from God.
How can I help you fulfill that calling and get rid of these "fears" in the way???


----------



## GISMYS

BOTTOMLINE==
Matthew 16:23
23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, &#8220;Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.&#8221;


----------



## PoliticalTorch

emilynghiem said:


> Whoa two birds with one stone
> [MENTION=49463]PoliticalTorch[/MENTION] and [MENTION=20412]JakeStarkey[/MENTION]
> 
> Do you want to set up a Bullring challenge:
> * that there IS a natural therapy for recovery from sexual abuse that
> has effectively changed people's orientations to whatever is NATURAL for them.
> * that this discussion and distinction between ABUSIVE FRAUDULENT practice
> and NATURAL HEALING that is consistent with science and medicine as beneficial
> IS a positive subject for exploration, RESEARCH, and understanding for the public?
> 
> If I challenge both of you at the same time,
> and if I can prove that there IS BENEFIT to both
> * NATURAL spiritual healing and recovery therapy (NOT fraudulent forced or abusive practices that the EFFECTIVE METHODS demonstrate the DIFFERENCE between)
> * and the DISCUSSION, RESEARCH and PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE of this difference
> 
> Will you both agree to post a public apology for your misjudgment and misconception
> of the DIFFERENCE between natural spiritual healing versus fraudulent harmful practices.
> 
> I have some websites set up, where I could feature your statements and explanations.
> I am ready to promote research into the DIFFERENCE between natural therapy and unnatural abuses.
> 
> Would you two care to step into the Bullring
> if you truly believe there is no truth to what I offer?
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalTorch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The gay community has no need to discuss "conversion therapy"
> 
> The hetero-fascist community has no moral right to discuss "conversion therapy" *
> 
> 
> 
> Jake, you're so right about that! There is no need for Gays and Lesbians to change the way they were born and the way they are and whom they love. But you also have to realize that the "hetero-fascist community", great term for them by the way, has to keep harping away on this one issue because that's all they have. They can't solve the problems of this country, they have no new ideas for moving the country forward, so all they know is obstructionism and they excel at that! So, they pick on a minority group, Blacks, Latinos and Hispanics included, and they find people who oppose those folks also and who are unfortunately as narrow-minded as they are who will blindly follow them like the pied piper since their mentality apparently knows no better, being cut pretty much from the same fabric. Never mind the harm they are doing to those groups, they are only after them for the votes they hope to get from them and then it's Adios Amigos!
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Emily, it appears that you have opened that door yourself therefore, I would like to ask you a few questions about the type of therapy you offer.

1. Are you licensed or certified by any state to offer this specific type of therapy? If so, by what state? And what is the name of the school you went to in order to study this type of therapy?

2. Have your therapies received peer-reviews by professional, medical associations and organizations? If so, which are they?

3. Have your therapies been proven to be efficacious to the overall professional healing and well-being of people who received them so that they would be able to provide a personal statement on how it worked out for them and if they experienced any trouble or pain from having received it to be forwarded to certain medical associations and state boards of medicine for their review?

4. Do you charge money for your services? And if so, how much? 

5. Do you provide these services in a professional setting? If so, where specifically and the physical location of your offices, or do you offer this out of your home or like place, and are you zoned and licensed by the City you reside in as a business and where would that be please? 

After hearing from you on that we might be able to talk further. As to an issue of an apology, none is needed from us and would however have to come from the source, the professional medical organizations and other places that reached those conclusions about Gay Conversion Therapy being Dangerous and Ineffective. Would you like for me to pass on your information (provided you first provide it to us) so they can check it out and take a look at what you are offering in order to be able to analyze it well so that it could be possibly recommended to others by them? You may indeed have all the proper answers to these questions so things may not apply to you if you do but I ask that as a mere precaution because I'm sure you are fully aware that there are many people out there offering bogus healing, etc. who have not received the proper training, been licensed, certified, or tested by professional sources first since it involves dealing with the public and that is always a very sensitive and delicate issue and I'm sure you can fully appreciate my concern on that. Outside of your not allowing for all these things listed, I cannot see any need for any further discussion and things will stand as they are. Thank you.


----------



## JakeStarkey

GISMYS said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> GET BEHIND ME SATAN!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can see that I am not trying to please you by sweet talk and flattery; no, I am trying to please God. If I were still trying to please men I could not be Christs servant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your have judged yourself with your own judgment, thus are not pleasing to God, Jesus, or man.
> 
> You have become your own God, GISMYS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> NO!!! I AM A son OF GOD!!! PTL.
Click to expand...


Your own judgment condemns you, GISMYS.


----------



## JakeStarkey

hadit said:


> Interesting that, if you want it, you can get counseling on how to live like a gay person, how to act like a person of the opposite gender, or how to feel good about yourself even though you're attracted to your own gender, but even if you want it, you are not allowed to get counseling on how to go the other direction.



Of course you can get such counseling, if you wish.

And those who are better informed know that it is worthless.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

Needless to say gay Americans arent afraid of hateful, ignorant lies such as "conversion therapy," they appropriately and correctly denounce it along with other manifestations of animus toward homosexuals.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Pop23 said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shart_attack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every (supposedly) "gay" man I've ever met has said he gets aroused watching heterosexual porn.
> 
> That tells me all I need to know about their supposedly genetic predisposition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lots of straight guys get turned on watching 2 woman go at it.....what does that say?.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Four boobs are better than two?
> 
> Btw, if the lesbos are ugly, even nice boobs won't help.
Click to expand...


Pop23, don't go with folks of your own sex is the best answer for you.


----------



## JakeStarkey

GISMYS said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gismys said:
> 
> 
> 
> you are free to have your opinion but i reject your opinion,you are not my judge,god is our only judge!!! Please god not little man!!!  === you can see that i am not trying to please you by sweet talk and flattery; no, i am trying to please god. If i were still trying to please men i could not be christs servant. Galations 1:10
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you are judged as you judge others.
> 
> You are forgiven as you forgive others.
> 
> Others hear you as you hear them.
> 
> Note: It's not about trying to "please people"
> it's about speaking effectively where they receive the message
> 
> if your words cause rejection of god, is this what you intend?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> begone satan's tool!!! Just begone!!!
Click to expand...


You remind of the new convert who offends others as if he were twenty devils.

So you are now GISMY_LEGION.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

hadit said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hadit said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting that, if you want it, you can get counseling on how to live like a gay person, how to act like a person of the opposite gender, or how to feel good about yourself even though you're attracted to your own gender, but even if you want it, you are not allowed to get counseling on how to go the other direction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you are. California and New Jersey said you can't make kids go to this harmful "therapy"...adults are free to fuck themselves up if they choose to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But kids CAN be "counseled" on how to feel good about themselves despite being attracted to the same sex?  That is the point.
Click to expand...


And this is an example of the ignorance associated with the myth of conversion therapy"; gay minors dont need to be counseled to feel good about being gay, as if it were some sort of disability. 

Given love, support, and guidance by their parents, young gay persons are perfecting capable of being happy as gay individuals and grow to be happy, well adjusted gay adults, secure and confident in who they are. 

Indeed, if theres any need for gay minors to receive counseling, its as a consequence of being subjected to the ignorance and hate of those hostile to gay Americans, where gay young people are being told the lie that theres something wrong with them and they need therapy, when in fact there is not, that in fact they are just as normal and just as healthy as heterosexual young people. 

The best thing that can be done to help young gay persons is the simply leave them alone.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

GISMYS said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gismys said:
> 
> 
> 
> you are free to have your opinion but i reject your opinion,you are not my judge,god is our only judge!!! Please god not little man!!!  === you can see that i am not trying to please you by sweet talk and flattery; no, i am trying to please god. If i were still trying to please men i could not be christs servant. Galations 1:10
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you are judged as you judge others.
> 
> You are forgiven as you forgive others.
> 
> Others hear you as you hear them.
> 
> Note: It's not about trying to "please people"
> it's about speaking effectively where they receive the message
> 
> if your words cause rejection of god, is this what you intend?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> begone satan's tool!!! Just begone!!!
Click to expand...


lol

You've got to be kidding.


----------



## Pop23

emilynghiem said:


> Howey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conversion therapy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since none of you nincompoop homophobic fuckwads has answered my question, here it is again"
> 
> *DOES CONVERSION THERAPY WORK ON HETEROSEXUALS TOO?*
> 
> I mean...it's obvious...if you believe it can work to "convert" a gay person, why can't it work to "convert" a straight person?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> [MENTION=42946]Howey[/MENTION]
> 
> *Y E S*
> 
> Spiritual healing helps people restore their NATURAL state, whatever that is spiritually.
> 
> So YES I have a friend who came out as Transgender AFTER receiving healing spiritually.
> Before he was in a heterosexual marriage and unhappy suppressing guilt and blame of Christianity.
> 
> After we shared the true meaning of Christianity, and he let go of judgment and fears,
> he came out as his true self, where his spiritually given personality was female.
> For the first time in his life, he told me he felt God's love and knew he was loved unconditionally.
> 
> Lots of people come out and come to terms with their natural selves
> after healing.
> 
> Just because you receive spiritual healing, doesn't mean you convert
> to Christianity, other religions or orientations. That is NOT the point.
> You come to peace with who you are, whatever that is which is between you and God.
> And FORGIVE and heal whatever was unforgiven, conflicted, or blocking you from peace.
Click to expand...


Ok, let's examine this

You took a male that slept with women and helped him understand that he should be with men. Check

He would then want to be with men. check

So then he became a women. Check

So men that are attracted to men would want to be with men. Check

And this guy became a women so he could be with men that want to be with men. Or did he think that men that want to be with other men would want to be with a woman?

Or was the thinking that a man that wanted to be with women would be attracted to a women that used to be a man?

Very confusing. 

If I wasn't already drunk I'd go get sloshed. 

This makes my head hurt.


----------



## emilynghiem

Hi PT I was referring to other reputable counselors and healing practitioners.
The only ones I refer are FREE and reputable, with no fraud or complaints on record.
Home - Christian Healing Ministries is one of those free resources with good reputation,
with a medically documented study on positive effects on healing rheumatoid arthritis.

We can talk more on a separate thread.
I thought you and Jake were "absolutely deadset" on rejecting without research.
If you are open to looking, then the challenge may not be necessary because
the results speak for themselves. If people would even consider the cases where this is medically valid.

I think just the research already out there would make it clear "much more is going on" than just the ABUSIVE "forced conversion" garbage that is opposed for obvious reasons.

The false, fraudulent malpractice and abuses we hear in the news have NOTHING to do with real therapy that is free, effective and voluntary. 
The successful methods are all based on "forgiveness" which by nature must be by choice and cannot be forced or it's false.

I am not a licensed therapist, and only help people like you see here online, through personal sharing and discussion, which is enough for most people to get what they need.

For the REALLY deep spiritual healing and prayer, my friend Olivia does that and has similar experience and years of effective outreach as Drs. Francis and Judith MacNutt.

I'm sure they and their other volunteers and teachers in this field are all licensed. Olivia is not licensed but works alongside doctors and professionals who are; she handles the healing prayer
and they handle any procedures requiring medical or mental health procedures.

The people who do "forgiveness counseling" on a very basic level, like helping friends through personal grief or conflicts, do not need to be licensed. 
(When I was talking with my friend online through his understanding of forgiveness, this was no different than me discussion or debating on here, and that was ENOUGH for him to come out as transgender
and work through his issues and decisions openly with his friends and family. I was just talking to him about not judging people or himself by the Bible but using it to teach forgiveness, and he came out.
That was not my intent at all, but that was the result of him forgiving and receiving a fuller understanding of God's love, it had that effect on him and changed how he looked at his life and what he wanted.)

No one I refer charges money, but helps for free because the healing is so needed, and the results multiply.

If you heal one person in a family or group, the whole family or group can receive healing.
So the efforts have greater reward on a spiritual level, and the most effective healers I recommend help for free because that is there calling. To help anyone who asks for help.

Thanks for being open to look into this.
I am happy to send you Dr. MacNutt's book on HEALING
for free, to aid in research in this important field. I believe it will change medicine, and
both mental health and prison systems, when healing methods are developed for medically diagnosing criminal illness using this same knowledge of spiritual causes of sickness, passed down from generations psychologically and physically. We could be treating diseases more effectively, and work alongside medicine and science so there is no conflict.



PoliticalTorch said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whoa two birds with one stone
> [MENTION=49463]PoliticalTorch[/MENTION] and [MENTION=20412]JakeStarkey[/MENTION]
> 
> Do you want to set up a Bullring challenge:
> * that there IS a natural therapy for recovery from sexual abuse that
> has effectively changed people's orientations to whatever is NATURAL for them.
> * that this discussion and distinction between ABUSIVE FRAUDULENT practice
> and NATURAL HEALING that is consistent with science and medicine as beneficial
> IS a positive subject for exploration, RESEARCH, and understanding for the public?
> 
> If I challenge both of you at the same time,
> and if I can prove that there IS BENEFIT to both
> * NATURAL spiritual healing and recovery therapy (NOT fraudulent forced or abusive practices that the EFFECTIVE METHODS demonstrate the DIFFERENCE between)
> * and the DISCUSSION, RESEARCH and PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE of this difference
> 
> Will you both agree to post a public apology for your misjudgment and misconception
> of the DIFFERENCE between natural spiritual healing versus fraudulent harmful practices.
> 
> I have some websites set up, where I could feature your statements and explanations.
> I am ready to promote research into the DIFFERENCE between natural therapy and unnatural abuses.
> 
> Would you two care to step into the Bullring
> if you truly believe there is no truth to what I offer?
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalTorch said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jake, you're so right about that! There is no need for Gays and Lesbians to change the way they were born and the way they are and whom they love. But you also have to realize that the "hetero-fascist community", great term for them by the way, has to keep harping away on this one issue because that's all they have. They can't solve the problems of this country, they have no new ideas for moving the country forward, so all they know is obstructionism and they excel at that! So, they pick on a minority group, Blacks, Latinos and Hispanics included, and they find people who oppose those folks also and who are unfortunately as narrow-minded as they are who will blindly follow them like the pied piper since their mentality apparently knows no better, being cut pretty much from the same fabric. Never mind the harm they are doing to those groups, they are only after them for the votes they hope to get from them and then it's Adios Amigos!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Emily, it appears that you have opened that door yourself therefore, I would like to ask you a few questions about the type of therapy you offer.
> 
> 1. Are you licensed or certified by any state to offer this specific type of therapy? If so, by what state? And what is the name of the school you went to in order to study this type of therapy?
> 
> 2. Have your therapies received peer-reviews by professional, medical associations and organizations? If so, which are they?
> 
> 3. Have your therapies been proven to be efficacious to the overall professional healing and well-being of people who received them so that they would be able to provide a personal statement on how it worked out for them and if they experienced any trouble or pain from having received it to be forwarded to certain medical associations and state boards of medicine for their review?
> 
> 4. Do you charge money for your services? And if so, how much?
> 
> 5. Do you provide these services in a professional setting? If so, where specifically and the physical location of your offices, or do you offer this out of your home or like place, and are you zoned and licensed by the City you reside in as a business and where would that be please?
> 
> After hearing from you on that we might be able to talk further. As to an issue of an apology, none is needed from us and would however have to come from the source, the professional medical organizations and other places that reached those conclusions about Gay Conversion Therapy being Dangerous and Ineffective. Would you like for me to pass on your information (provided you first provide it to us) so they can check it out and take a look at what you are offering in order to be able to analyze it well so that it could be possibly recommended to others by them? You may indeed have all the proper answers to these questions so things may not apply to you if you do but I ask that as a mere precaution because I'm sure you are fully aware that there are many people out there offering bogus healing, etc. who have not received the proper training, been licensed, certified, or tested by professional sources first since it involves dealing with the public and that is always a very sensitive and delicate issue and I'm sure you can fully appreciate my concern on that. Outside of your not allowing for all these things listed, I cannot see any need for any further discussion and things will stand as they are. Thank you.
Click to expand...


----------



## JakeStarkey

emilynghiem said:


> Hi PT I was referring to other reputable counselors and healing practitioners.
> The only ones I refer are FREE and reputable, with no fraud or complaints on record.
> Home - Christian Healing Ministries is one of those free resources with good reputation,
> with a medically documented study on positive effects on healing rheumatoid arthritis.
> 
> We can talk more on a separate thread.
> I thought you and Jake were "absolutely deadset" on rejecting without research.
> If you are open to looking, then the challenge may not be necessary because
> the results speak for themselves. If people would even consider the cases where this is medically valid.
> 
> I think just the research already out there would make it clear "much more is going on" than just the ABUSIVE "forced conversion" garbage that is opposed for obvious reasons.
> 
> The false, fraudulent malpractice and abuses we hear in the news have NOTHING to do with real therapy that is free, effective and voluntary.
> The successful methods are all based on "forgiveness" which by nature must be by choice and cannot be forced or it's false.
> 
> I am not a licensed therapist, and only help people like you see here online, through personal sharing and discussion, which is enough for most people to get what they need.
> 
> For the REALLY deep spiritual healing and prayer, my friend Olivia does that and has similar experience and years of effective outreach as Drs. Francis and Judith MacNutt.
> 
> I'm sure they and their other volunteers and teachers in this field are all licensed. Olivia is not licensed but works alongside doctors and professionals who are; she handles the healing prayer
> and they handle any procedures requiring medical or mental health procedures.
> 
> The people who do "forgiveness counseling" on a very basic level, like helping friends through personal grief or conflicts, do not need to be licensed.
> (When I was talking with my friend online through his understanding of forgiveness, this was no different than me discussion or debating on here, and that was ENOUGH for him to come out as transgender
> and work through his issues and decisions openly with his friends and family. I was just talking to him about not judging people or himself by the Bible but using it to teach forgiveness, and he came out.
> That was not my intent at all, but that was the result of him forgiving and receiving a fuller understanding of God's love, it had that effect on him and changed how he looked at his life and what he wanted.)
> 
> No one I refer charges money, but helps for free because the healing is so needed, and the results multiply.
> 
> If you heal one person in a family or group, the whole family or group can receive healing.
> So the efforts have greater reward on a spiritual level, and the most effective healers I recommend help for free because that is there calling. To help anyone who asks for help.
> 
> Thanks for being open to look into this.
> I am happy to send you Dr. MacNutt's book on HEALING
> for free, to aid in research in this important field. I believe it will change medicine, and
> both mental health and prison systems, when healing methods are developed for medically diagnosing criminal illness using this same knowledge of spiritual causes of sickness, passed down from generations psychologically and physically. We could be treating diseases more effectively, and work alongside medicine and science so there is no conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalTorch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whoa two birds with one stone
> [MENTION=49463]PoliticalTorch[/MENTION] and [MENTION=20412]JakeStarkey[/MENTION]
> 
> Do you want to set up a Bullring challenge:
> * that there IS a natural therapy for recovery from sexual abuse that
> has effectively changed people's orientations to whatever is NATURAL for them.
> * that this discussion and distinction between ABUSIVE FRAUDULENT practice
> and NATURAL HEALING that is consistent with science and medicine as beneficial
> IS a positive subject for exploration, RESEARCH, and understanding for the public?
> 
> If I challenge both of you at the same time,
> and if I can prove that there IS BENEFIT to both
> * NATURAL spiritual healing and recovery therapy (NOT fraudulent forced or abusive practices that the EFFECTIVE METHODS demonstrate the DIFFERENCE between)
> * and the DISCUSSION, RESEARCH and PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE of this difference
> 
> Will you both agree to post a public apology for your misjudgment and misconception
> of the DIFFERENCE between natural spiritual healing versus fraudulent harmful practices.
> 
> I have some websites set up, where I could feature your statements and explanations.
> I am ready to promote research into the DIFFERENCE between natural therapy and unnatural abuses.
> 
> Would you two care to step into the Bullring
> if you truly believe there is no truth to what I offer?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emily, it appears that you have opened that door yourself therefore, I would like to ask you a few questions about the type of therapy you offer.
> 
> 1. Are you licensed or certified by any state to offer this specific type of therapy? If so, by what state? And what is the name of the school you went to in order to study this type of therapy?
> 
> 2. Have your therapies received peer-reviews by professional, medical associations and organizations? If so, which are they?
> 
> 3. Have your therapies been proven to be efficacious to the overall professional healing and well-being of people who received them so that they would be able to provide a personal statement on how it worked out for them and if they experienced any trouble or pain from having received it to be forwarded to certain medical associations and state boards of medicine for their review?
> 
> 4. Do you charge money for your services? And if so, how much?
> 
> 5. Do you provide these services in a professional setting? If so, where specifically and the physical location of your offices, or do you offer this out of your home or like place, and are you zoned and licensed by the City you reside in as a business and where would that be please?
> 
> After hearing from you on that we might be able to talk further. As to an issue of an apology, none is needed from us and would however have to come from the source, the professional medical organizations and other places that reached those conclusions about Gay Conversion Therapy being Dangerous and Ineffective. Would you like for me to pass on your information (provided you first provide it to us) so they can check it out and take a look at what you are offering in order to be able to analyze it well so that it could be possibly recommended to others by them? You may indeed have all the proper answers to these questions so things may not apply to you if you do but I ask that as a mere precaution because I'm sure you are fully aware that there are many people out there offering bogus healing, etc. who have not received the proper training, been licensed, certified, or tested by professional sources first since it involves dealing with the public and that is always a very sensitive and delicate issue and I'm sure you can fully appreciate my concern on that. Outside of your not allowing for all these things listed, I cannot see any need for any further discussion and things will stand as they are. Thank you.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Emily states "I thought you and Jake were 'absolutely deadset' on rejecting without research."  I won't answer for you, but I will certainly tell Emily that (1) research overwhelmingly rejects her beliefs and (2) she is not qualified to lecture on the subject.


----------



## Inevitable

emilynghiem said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seeks to propagate the ignorant, hateful lie that being gay is a "mental illness" or something to be "cured," when in fact it is not
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [MENTION=29614]C_Clayton_Jones[/MENTION]
> 
> If PoliticalTorch and JakeStarkey decline my invitation,
> would you agree to step in? See above, thanks!
> 
> I am saying there is a DIFFERENCE between
> natural therapy and unnatural abuses.
> 
> And that this discussion of the DIFFERENCE, and the research required to clarify it,
> is beneficial to the public to have understanding and knowledge of.
> 
> Anyone else?
> As many people as want to take on this challenge,
> the more the merrier!
> 
> If this challenge goes public, I will ask help from the
> Log Cabin Republicans to set up national forums to expand on this discussion,
> on the DIFFERENCE between "natural and unnatural" and what distinguishes both.
> 
> A very important concept to establish!
> There are no losers, everyone will win and benefit from the answers we share.
Click to expand...

Explain what you mean by "natural therapy"


----------



## Seawytch

hadit said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hadit said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting that, if you want it, you can get counseling on how to live like a gay person, how to act like a person of the opposite gender, or how to feel good about yourself even though you're attracted to your own gender, but even if you want it, you are not allowed to get counseling on how to go the other direction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you are. California and New Jersey said you can't make kids go to this harmful "therapy"...adults are free to fuck themselves up if they choose to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But kids CAN be "counseled" on how to feel good about themselves despite being attracted to the same sex?  That is the point.
Click to expand...



Yes, that's proven to help, the other proven to harm.


----------



## emilynghiem

Pop23 said:


> Ok, let's examine this
> 
> You took a male that slept with women and helped him understand that he should be with men. Check
> 
> He would then want to be with men. check
> 
> So then he became a women. Check
> 
> So men that are attracted to men would want to be with men. Check
> 
> And this guy became a women so he could be with men that want to be with men. Or did he think that men that want to be with other men would want to be with a woman?
> 
> Or was the thinking that a man that wanted to be with women would be attracted to a women that used to be a man?
> 
> Very confusing.
> 
> If I wasn't already drunk I'd go get sloshed.
> 
> This makes my head hurt.



No I didn't take or make anyone do anything.
He was in a marriage and told me he rejected Christian teachings in the Bible that judged people for gender etc.

All I talked about going into the conversation was things like
* gender was spiritual, we are all male and female and the point is to accept the spiritual roles, so the physical roles will take care of themselves. We don't judge based on that.
things will work out naturally, and we will follow those natural laws,
but NOT by judging condemning and rejecting and trying to "control other people"

so that was most of the focus -- on stopping the judgment guilt fear and rejection

* that some eunuchs are made by God and some by man
I discussed spiritual "karma" from previous generations that may be causing people to incarnate as same sex or cross gender etc. The sin was in the past, and was not forgiven, so it passed down and seeks forgiveness and healing in this lifetime through other people.
These are not the "same people" being reincarnated, but the karma is.
The future generations may be effected by sins of the past until these are forgiven/healed.

So after my friend let go of all this fear of judgment and condemnation,
he admitted he always felt female, and resented that he couldn't be himself.
I spoke to him by addressing his "female side" and accepted him as he said. And he opened up and started to understand what unconditional love and forgiveness feels like.

That was all I sought to help him with -- to STOP the condemnation guilt and fear-based religious hangups or whatever made him distrust and reject Christianity or whatever.

After he let go, then he came to terms with himself on the inside.
That was all from his side, and I did not counsel or direct him one way or another.
He decided to come out to his wife, family and friends, see a professional counselor,
and decide how much to change his appearance and gender. I think he decided to go all the way, to take on the counseling process to prepare for actual gender reassignment.

I wanted him/her to take his time, and enjoy his new mindset and worldview and get used to it before making any lifechanging decisions. But he checked with his family and felt confident he knew what he wanted. I didn't even agree, and felt he was moving too fast and needed to take his time, but he was so happy with himself, he went on his own path.

The biggest sign that this had nothing to do with anything I said, is he didn't credit me with any of this. He knew the changes in his mind came from elsewhere. I was just the person who pointed out there were other churches and interpretations that didn't judge gay people, and he took it from there.  I explained how the sin/karma could be from past generations repeating, and he accepted this could apply to him; I told him the point is to forgive and heal it in this lifetime, and it breaks the cycle, and that is the meaning in the Bible -- 
for forgiveness/healing in Christ to 'break the cycle" of sin/abuse/karma otherwise repeating from the past. 
Whatever we forgive/heal of individually; collectively this brings salvation for all humanity to find peace. 
So there is nothing negative to fear about the Bible; it describes the spiritual process for all humanity, especially coming to peace with the male and female sides of our spiritual energy and relationships.

He said he told his wife and they planned to get divorced so she could marry someone else to have a family. That part was sad, but they agreed the sooner the better so she had time to start over.
He posted some transition photos for me, early on, when he was first changing his appearance, like his hair and eyebrows. He was going to focus on his change before deciding anything else with "relationships" (so I have no idea what he wanted to do with dating or orientation, he hadn't decided that far)

His friends were just surprised to see him so happy in ways they never saw him before. Genuinely happy, instead of stuffed suppressed and faked with guilt and resentment.
When his parents asked him to please wait until AFTER his sister's wedding, so they didn't have to explain this to others, I joked that for this wedding, they were losing a son and gaining a daughter. He said they were very supportive, so for traditional Christian parents to support him that way, I could only assume it had to be the right decision and not a fluke.

I only sought to help him get over his negative interpretation of Christian religion as unforgiving when the point is to forgive unconditionally on a spiritual level, and trust the physical things to take care of themselves by God's will. It is about letting go of judgment. 

I didn't foresee, expect, plan or want any of the other changes to happen, they just did.


----------



## Inevitable

GreenBean said:


> I realize you are new , but kindly familiarize with the use of quotes and quote boxes , you have them somewhat fouled up -I know what I said - you know what you said but - this is an open forum and others may be a tad confused.


I don't think anybody is going to be confused



> 1. You state you have no claim to prove - but you do - and apparently are unable to - see you're learning newby , in no time what so ever you'll be just another cynical clueless left wing asshole - completely confortable wit the art of deflecting.


Hyperbole is a logical fallacy.



> A. You state - "No I did not make any claim. I simply challenged yours."   but you did
> make a few unsubtantiated claims such as the improper use of the word "Dysphoria"


. Really the term "sexual disphoria" it means you are unwellwith your sex. I adressed that claim, you just didn't like it. 




> You say it's opinion - you just made a claim - prove it


Yes, in those links there were no studies referenced. I read some claims but I saw no proof of them.

Also, this is a logical fallacy. (I love how you ignore them.) Claiming the burden of proof is on me to prove your claim wrong is absolutely fallacy.

Lastly I don't buy that the Apa was taken over by homosexuals. That sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. You have anything to prove that claim?


----------



## Inevitable

emilynghiem said:


> Pop23 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, let's examine this
> 
> You took a male that slept with women and helped him understand that he should be with men. Check
> 
> He would then want to be with men. check
> 
> So then he became a women. Check
> 
> So men that are attracted to men would want to be with men. Check
> 
> And this guy became a women so he could be with men that want to be with men. Or did he think that men that want to be with other men would want to be with a woman?
> 
> Or was the thinking that a man that wanted to be with women would be attracted to a women that used to be a man?
> 
> Very confusing.
> 
> If I wasn't already drunk I'd go get sloshed.
> 
> This makes my head hurt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I didn't take or make anyone do anything.
> He was in a marriage and told me he rejected Christian teachings in the Bible that judged people for gender etc.
> 
> All I talked about going into the conversation was things like
> * gender was spiritual, we are all male and female and the point is to accept the spiritual roles, so the physical roles will take care of themselves. We don't judge based on that.
> things will work out naturally, and we will follow those natural laws,
> but NOT by judging condemning and rejecting and trying to "control other people"
> 
> so that was most of the focus -- on stopping the judgment guilt fear and rejection
> 
> * that some eunuchs are made by God and some by man
> I discussed spiritual "karma" from previous generations that may be causing people to incarnate as same sex or cross gender etc. The sin was in the past, and was not forgiven, so it passed down and seeks forgiveness and healing in this lifetime through other people.
> These are not the "same people" being reincarnated, but the karma is.
> The future generations may be effected by sins of the past until these are forgiven/healed.
> 
> So after my friend let go of all this fear of judgment and condemnation,
> he admitted he always felt female, and resented that he couldn't be himself.
> I spoke to him by addressing his "female side" and accepted him as he said. And he opened up and started to understand what unconditional love and forgiveness feels like.
> 
> That was all I sought to help him with -- to STOP the condemnation guilt and fear-based religious hangups or whatever made him distrust and reject Christianity or whatever.
> 
> After he let go, then he came to terms with himself on the inside.
> That was all from his side, and I did not counsel or direct him one way or another.
> He decided to come out to his wife, family and friends, see a professional counselor,
> and decide how much to change his appearance and gender. I think he decided to go all the way, to take on the counseling process to prepare for actual gender reassignment.
> 
> I wanted him/her to take his time, and enjoy his new mindset and worldview and get used to it before making any lifechanging decisions. But he checked with his family and felt confident he knew what he wanted. I didn't even agree, and felt he was moving too fast and needed to take his time, but he was so happy with himself, he went on his own path.
> 
> The biggest sign that this had nothing to do with anything I said, is he didn't credit me with any of this. He knew the changes in his mind came from elsewhere. I was just the person who pointed out there were other churches and interpretations that didn't judge gay people, and he took it from there.  I explained how the sin/karma could be from past generations repeating, and he accepted this could apply to him; I told him the point is to forgive and heal it in this lifetime, and it breaks the cycle, and that is the meaning in the Bible --
> for forgiveness/healing in Christ to 'break the cycle" of sin/abuse/karma otherwise repeating from the past.
> Whatever we forgive/heal of individually; collectively this brings salvation for all humanity to find peace.
> So there is nothing negative to fear about the Bible; it describes the spiritual process for all humanity, especially coming to peace with the male and female sides of our spiritual energy and relationships.
> 
> He said he told his wife and they planned to get divorced so she could marry someone else to have a family. That part was sad, but they agreed the sooner the better so she had time to start over.
> He posted some transition photos for me, early on, when he was first changing his appearance, like his hair and eyebrows. He was going to focus on his change before deciding anything else with "relationships" (so I have no idea what he wanted to do with dating or orientation, he hadn't decided that far)
> 
> His friends were just surprised to see him so happy in ways they never saw him before. Genuinely happy, instead of stuffed suppressed and faked with guilt and resentment.
> When his parents asked him to please wait until AFTER his sister's wedding, so they didn't have to explain this to others, I joked that for this wedding, they were losing a son and gaining a daughter. He said they were very supportive, so for traditional Christian parents to support him that way, I could only assume it had to be the right decision and not a fluke.
> 
> I only sought to help him get over his negative interpretation of Christian religion as unforgiving when the point is to forgive unconditionally on a spiritual level, and trust the physical things to take care of themselves by God's will. It is about letting go of judgment.
> 
> I didn't foresee, expect, plan or want any of the other changes to happen, they just did.
Click to expand...

This all hinges on a fallacy. Argumentum ad naturam. Basically you are appealing to nature, and saying because something is natural it is good.

Explain to me what you mean when you use the phrase "natural therapy." Also explainwhy it is good, simply being natural isn't enough to prove that it is good.


----------



## Inevitable

GreenBean said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As is generally the case the OP on this thread has strayed off in several different directions. The OP being Conversion therapy.
> 
> Conversion therapy, Ex Gay or reparative therapy is primarily promoted by the mental health organization, NARTH. NARTH teaches that homosexuality is abnormal, unnatural,undesirable and changeable sexual behavior.
> 
> Complete data on conversion theapy is quite often withheld or suppressed. This makes the actual success rate of conversion therapy difficult to guage with any real degree of accuracy. However, several studies have revealed sufficient data which can be utilized to arrive at crude estimate of the conversion success rate:
> 
> Studies on conversion therapy for unwanted homosexual attractions yield varying success rates, ranging from 30%-70%, these rates are no different than success rates for other therapeutic practices - However the other therapeutic practices, such as substance abuse and assorted phobias and fetishes are not politically incorrect - criticizing the Gay Agenda and lifestyle is.
> 
> A key word in the preceding statement is "unwanted homosexual attractions"  - as is the case with other therapeutic practices - treating somebody who doesn't want to be treated and believes they are confortable with their malady is statistically doomed to failure
> 
> Being politically charged , politically correct science [Bad Science] will frequently totally disregard the facts,  and the agenda of he who shouts the loudest wins.
> 
> Socio-Fascists are currently blatantly promoting homosexuality, it is surmised as part of Big Brothers concerted effort to expedite the disintegration of the family structure and reduce the surplus population/ curtail population growth.
> 
> So Why is the gay community afraid of "conversion therapy"
> 
> It is an admission that their sexual dysphoria -homosexuality is abnormal and something which needs to be treated.  If there is no disease , there should not be a need for a cure .
> The succes of Conversion Therapy, is the failure of the Gay Agenda - it flies in the face of their ideological agenda and propaganda.
> 
> Conversion Therapy is far from the voo-doo quackery preached by the politically correct socio-fascists and useful idiots - it is a viable and effective method of treating a psychologiocally degenerative disease - Homosexuality
Click to expand...

Narth goes against all science on this subject.
The Wild Reed: Debunking NARTH (Part I)

Basically they are trying to treat something that isn't a pathology. Homosexuality was removed from the DSM because there is no known pathology that exists in association with it. This hs been studied since the 1950s. I know you have a theory that gaypeople have taken over the APA or bought them out or something like that. Frankly there is no reason for me to believe that, so unless you have evidence, I will think of this like I do the builderburg group. Or Atlantis.


----------



## PoliticalTorch

JakeStarkey said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi PT I was referring to other reputable counselors and healing practitioners.
> The only ones I refer are FREE and reputable, with no fraud or complaints on record.
> Home - Christian Healing Ministries is one of those free resources with good reputation,
> with a medically documented study on positive effects on healing rheumatoid arthritis.
> 
> We can talk more on a separate thread.
> I thought you and Jake were "absolutely deadset" on rejecting without research.
> If you are open to looking, then the challenge may not be necessary because
> the results speak for themselves. If people would even consider the cases where this is medically valid.
> 
> I think just the research already out there would make it clear "much more is going on" than just the ABUSIVE "forced conversion" garbage that is opposed for obvious reasons.
> 
> The false, fraudulent malpractice and abuses we hear in the news have NOTHING to do with real therapy that is free, effective and voluntary.
> The successful methods are all based on "forgiveness" which by nature must be by choice and cannot be forced or it's false.
> 
> I am not a licensed therapist, and only help people like you see here online, through personal sharing and discussion, which is enough for most people to get what they need.
> 
> For the REALLY deep spiritual healing and prayer, my friend Olivia does that and has similar experience and years of effective outreach as Drs. Francis and Judith MacNutt.
> 
> I'm sure they and their other volunteers and teachers in this field are all licensed. Olivia is not licensed but works alongside doctors and professionals who are; she handles the healing prayer
> and they handle any procedures requiring medical or mental health procedures.
> 
> The people who do "forgiveness counseling" on a very basic level, like helping friends through personal grief or conflicts, do not need to be licensed.
> (When I was talking with my friend online through his understanding of forgiveness, this was no different than me discussion or debating on here, and that was ENOUGH for him to come out as transgender
> and work through his issues and decisions openly with his friends and family. I was just talking to him about not judging people or himself by the Bible but using it to teach forgiveness, and he came out.
> That was not my intent at all, but that was the result of him forgiving and receiving a fuller understanding of God's love, it had that effect on him and changed how he looked at his life and what he wanted.)
> 
> No one I refer charges money, but helps for free because the healing is so needed, and the results multiply.
> 
> If you heal one person in a family or group, the whole family or group can receive healing.
> So the efforts have greater reward on a spiritual level, and the most effective healers I recommend help for free because that is there calling. To help anyone who asks for help.
> 
> Thanks for being open to look into this.
> I am happy to send you Dr. MacNutt's book on HEALING
> for free, to aid in research in this important field. I believe it will change medicine, and
> both mental health and prison systems, when healing methods are developed for medically diagnosing criminal illness using this same knowledge of spiritual causes of sickness, passed down from generations psychologically and physically. We could be treating diseases more effectively, and work alongside medicine and science so there is no conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalTorch said:
> 
> 
> 
> Emily, it appears that you have opened that door yourself therefore, I would like to ask you a few questions about the type of therapy you offer.
> 
> 1. Are you licensed or certified by any state to offer this specific type of therapy? If so, by what state? And what is the name of the school you went to in order to study this type of therapy?
> 
> 2. Have your therapies received peer-reviews by professional, medical associations and organizations? If so, which are they?
> 
> 3. Have your therapies been proven to be efficacious to the overall professional healing and well-being of people who received them so that they would be able to provide a personal statement on how it worked out for them and if they experienced any trouble or pain from having received it to be forwarded to certain medical associations and state boards of medicine for their review?
> 
> 4. Do you charge money for your services? And if so, how much?
> 
> 5. Do you provide these services in a professional setting? If so, where specifically and the physical location of your offices, or do you offer this out of your home or like place, and are you zoned and licensed by the City you reside in as a business and where would that be please?
> 
> After hearing from you on that we might be able to talk further. As to an issue of an apology, none is needed from us and would however have to come from the source, the professional medical organizations and other places that reached those conclusions about Gay Conversion Therapy being Dangerous and Ineffective. Would you like for me to pass on your information (provided you first provide it to us) so they can check it out and take a look at what you are offering in order to be able to analyze it well so that it could be possibly recommended to others by them? You may indeed have all the proper answers to these questions so things may not apply to you if you do but I ask that as a mere precaution because I'm sure you are fully aware that there are many people out there offering bogus healing, etc. who have not received the proper training, been licensed, certified, or tested by professional sources first since it involves dealing with the public and that is always a very sensitive and delicate issue and I'm sure you can fully appreciate my concern on that. Outside of your not allowing for all these things listed, I cannot see any need for any further discussion and things will stand as they are. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Emily states "I thought you and Jake were 'absolutely deadset' on rejecting without research."  I won't answer for you, but I will certainly tell Emily that (1) research overwhelmingly rejects her beliefs and (2) she is not qualified to lecture on the subject.
Click to expand...

Agreed! Sane and unbiased research does reject the notion or belief that a person with a Gay or Lesbian orientation *has* to change. They do not as there is absolutely no reason to. It has also been brought out that some of those who do go in for such methods or therapies are not all actually same-sex oriented individuals but some straight people also go in just to say that the therapy worked for them in order to help sell it to others and that is not at all right to be doing. That is why some studies have been rejected due to subjective results produced that would be hard to verify. In essence, it could not withstand scrutiny. Thanks again, Jake. I believe it is going about it in the wrong way to give credence to people who are capricious and have a penchant for wanting to change others by hook or by crook based on their beliefs whether they be personal or what they believe is Biblical. All can be assured that God makes no mistakes in those He creates and that is EVERYONE. If people become promiscuous, both Straight and Gay, then that is something they have to contend with and deal with personally as it is a very personal matter and if there is any judging to be made on them God will make that judgment when the time comes. In the meantime, all others butt out, please! I would say to those who think they have a right to interfere that it is not their place to judge or try to change or convert anyone by any means.


----------



## PoliticalTorch

emilynghiem said:


> Hi PT I was referring to other reputable counselors and healing practitioners.
> The only ones I refer are FREE and reputable, with no fraud or complaints on record.
> Home - Christian Healing Ministries is one of those free resources with good reputation,
> with a medically documented study on positive effects on healing rheumatoid arthritis.
> 
> We can talk more on a separate thread.
> I thought you and Jake were "absolutely deadset" on rejecting without research.
> If you are open to looking, then the challenge may not be necessary because
> the results speak for themselves. If people would even consider the cases where this is medically valid.
> 
> I think just the research already out there would make it clear "much more is going on" than just the ABUSIVE "forced conversion" garbage that is opposed for obvious reasons.
> 
> The false, fraudulent malpractice and abuses we hear in the news have NOTHING to do with real therapy that is free, effective and voluntary.
> The successful methods are all based on "forgiveness" which by nature must be by choice and cannot be forced or it's false.
> 
> I am not a licensed therapist, and only help people like you see here online, through personal sharing and discussion, which is enough for most people to get what they need.
> 
> For the REALLY deep spiritual healing and prayer, my friend Olivia does that and has similar experience and years of effective outreach as Drs. Francis and Judith MacNutt.
> 
> I'm sure they and their other volunteers and teachers in this field are all licensed. Olivia is not licensed but works alongside doctors and professionals who are; she handles the healing prayer
> and they handle any procedures requiring medical or mental health procedures.
> 
> The people who do "forgiveness counseling" on a very basic level, like helping friends through personal grief or conflicts, do not need to be licensed.
> (When I was talking with my friend online through his understanding of forgiveness, this was no different than me discussion or debating on here, and that was ENOUGH for him to come out as transgender
> and work through his issues and decisions openly with his friends and family. I was just talking to him about not judging people or himself by the Bible but using it to teach forgiveness, and he came out.
> That was not my intent at all, but that was the result of him forgiving and receiving a fuller understanding of God's love, it had that effect on him and changed how he looked at his life and what he wanted.)
> 
> No one I refer charges money, but helps for free because the healing is so needed, and the results multiply.
> 
> If you heal one person in a family or group, the whole family or group can receive healing.
> So the efforts have greater reward on a spiritual level, and the most effective healers I recommend help for free because that is there calling. To help anyone who asks for help.
> 
> Thanks for being open to look into this.
> I am happy to send you Dr. MacNutt's book on HEALING
> for free, to aid in research in this important field. I believe it will change medicine, and
> both mental health and prison systems, when healing methods are developed for medically diagnosing criminal illness using this same knowledge of spiritual causes of sickness, passed down from generations psychologically and physically. We could be treating diseases more effectively, and work alongside medicine and science so there is no conflict.


Emily, I see what you're getting at now. What you are offering is in the realm of Spiritual Healing as opposed to allopathic medicine. I cannot speak for others but it appears that your premise is still that a person is in need of "forgiveness." And while it may be true that all could use forgiveness, I believe it should start with the Heterosexually-oriented groups like those who willfully commit Abortion, Divorce, get Herpes thorough illicit means, Covet their neighbor's husband or wife etc. But to mainly target GLBT people and intimidate them into thinking that they need to change in some way (the premise of this thread "Why is the gay community afraid of "conversion therapy") is just plain wrong and I cannot agree with such premise as neither you or anyone else is in any position to judge another in that regard. You may also feel free to read my more lengthy response to Jake.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Any adult can seek spiritual healing and help.

But the state can interfere in the best interest of the children, and reparative therapy is not in the best interest of the children.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

The better yet rhetorical question is: why are most conservatives afraid of gay Americans.


----------



## GISMYS

Jude 23
Rescue others by snatching them from the flames of judgment. Show mercy to still others, but do so with great caution, hating the sins that contaminate their lives


----------



## GreenBean

*GreenBean* I realize you are new , but kindly familiarize with the use of quotes and quote boxes , you have them somewhat fouled up -I know what I said - you know what you said but - this is an open forum and others may be a tad confused.

*Inevitable:*  I don't think anybody is going to be confused

*GreenBean*  The problem is you don't Think - period.  

*GreenBean*  You state you have no claim to prove - but you do - and apparently are unable to - see you're learning newby , in no time what so ever you'll be just another cynical clueless left wing asshole - completely confortable wit the art of deflecting.

*Inevitable:* Hyperbole is a logical fallacy.

*GreenBean*  Sonny Boy - hiding behind $5 words that you heard your teacher use does not drive a point home 

-------------------

*GreenBean*  You state - "No I did not make any claim. I simply challenged yours." but you did make a few unsubtantiated claims such as the improper use of the word "Dysphoria"

*Inevitable:*  Really the term "sexual disphoria" it means you are unwell with your sex. I adressed that claim, you just didn't like it. 

NOW - *GreenBean* I presented factual evidence , you presented your opinion little boy - now go back and ask your teacher the difference between fact and opinion and see if the academia nut you took lessons from can give you some more $5 words to hide behind. 

*Inevitable:*Yes, in those links there were no studies referenced. I read some claims but I saw no proof of them.

NOW - *GreenBean* *Obviously you didn't read them*, and you are once again practicing deflection - like your boyfriend Howey -*why let facts get in the way of your Opinons ?*


*Inevitable:* Lastly I don't buy that the Apa was taken over by homosexuals. That sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. You have anything to prove that claim?

*GreenBean*  Yup again and again it's been presented - but presenting proof to someone who refuses to back up his own opinions ,tries to present them as fact is an absolute  waste of my time - *I'm not your fucking errand boy !*   You can'tbackupyour statements - so take a hike troll


----------



## Inevitable

GreenBean said:


> *GreenBean* I realize you are new , but kindly familiarize with the use of quotes and quote boxes , you have them somewhat fouled up -I know what I said - you know what you said but - this is an open forum and others may be a tad confused.
> 
> *Inevitable:*  I don't think anybody is going to be confused
> 
> *GreenBean*  The problem is you don't Think - period.
> 
> *GreenBean*  You state you have no claim to prove - but you do - and apparently are unable to - see you're learning newby , in no time what so ever you'll be just another cynical clueless left wing asshole - completely confortable wit the art of deflecting.
> 
> *Inevitable:* Hyperbole is a logical fallacy.
> 
> *GreenBean*  Sonny Boy - hiding behind $5 words that you heard your teacher use does not drive a point home
> 
> -------------------
> 
> *GreenBean*  You state - "No I did not make any claim. I simply challenged yours." but you did make a few unsubtantiated claims such as the improper use of the word "Dysphoria"
> 
> *Inevitable:*  Really the term "sexual disphoria" it means you are unwell with your sex. I adressed that claim, you just didn't like it.
> 
> NOW - *GreenBean* I presented factual evidence , you presented your opinion little boy - now go back and ask your teacher the difference between fact and opinion and see if the academia nut you took lessons from can give you some more $5 words to hide behind.
> 
> *Inevitable:*Yes, in those links there were no studies referenced. I read some claims but I saw no proof of them.
> 
> NOW - *GreenBean* *Obviously you didn't read them*, and you are once again practicing deflection - like your boyfriend Howey -*why let facts get in the way of your Opinons ?*
> 
> 
> *Inevitable:* Lastly I don't buy that the Apa was taken over by homosexuals. That sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. You have anything to prove that claim?
> 
> *GreenBean*  Yup again and again it's been presented - but presenting proof to someone who refuses to back up his own opinions ,tries to present them as fact is an absolute  waste of my time - *I'm not your fucking errand boy !*   You can'tbackupyour statements - so take a hike troll


You presented an extremely paranoid conspiracy theory. I need a little more than the word of the nutcase that came up with it to believe that crap. Sorry. You have nothing you presented nothing but fallacy. Now add some ad hominem.

If your paranoid delusions were really real you wouldn't need to call me a troll.

Prove your case, it should be able to stand on it's own.


----------



## GreenBean

Inevitable said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GreenBean* I realize you are new , but kindly familiarize with the use of quotes and quote boxes , you have them somewhat fouled up -I know what I said - you know what you said but - this is an open forum and others may be a tad confused.
> 
> *Inevitable:*  I don't think anybody is going to be confused
> 
> *GreenBean*  The problem is you don't Think - period.
> 
> *GreenBean*  You state you have no claim to prove - but you do - and apparently are unable to - see you're learning newby , in no time what so ever you'll be just another cynical clueless left wing asshole - completely confortable wit the art of deflecting.
> 
> *Inevitable:* Hyperbole is a logical fallacy.
> 
> *GreenBean*  Sonny Boy - hiding behind $5 words that you heard your teacher use does not drive a point home
> 
> -------------------
> 
> *GreenBean*  You state - "No I did not make any claim. I simply challenged yours." but you did make a few unsubtantiated claims such as the improper use of the word "Dysphoria"
> 
> *Inevitable:*  Really the term "sexual disphoria" it means you are unwell with your sex. I adressed that claim, you just didn't like it.
> 
> NOW - *GreenBean* I presented factual evidence , you presented your opinion little boy - now go back and ask your teacher the difference between fact and opinion and see if the academia nut you took lessons from can give you some more $5 words to hide behind.
> 
> *Inevitable:*Yes, in those links there were no studies referenced. I read some claims but I saw no proof of them.
> 
> NOW - *GreenBean* *Obviously you didn't read them*, and you are once again practicing deflection - like your boyfriend Howey -*why let facts get in the way of your Opinons ?*
> 
> 
> *Inevitable:* Lastly I don't buy that the Apa was taken over by homosexuals. That sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. You have anything to prove that claim?
> 
> *GreenBean*  Yup again and again it's been presented - but presenting proof to someone who refuses to back up his own opinions ,tries to present them as fact is an absolute  waste of my time - *I'm not your fucking errand boy !*   You can'tbackupyour statements - so take a hike troll
> 
> 
> 
> You presented an extremely paranoid conspiracy theory. I need a little more than the word of the nutcase that came up with it to believe that crap. Sorry. You have nothing you presented nothing but fallacy. Now add some ad hominem.
> 
> If your paranoid delusions were really real you wouldn't need to call me a troll.
> 
> Prove your case, it should be able to stand on it's own.
Click to expand...


okay faggot -but if you can't present anything other than your assinine opinons from here on in -then *STFU !*

Here's something from Dr. Nicholas Cummings, a former president of the APA and also the man who authored the motion back in 70s to have Homosexuality removed from the DSM ... [Or actually it wasn't completely removed - just reclassified as "Sexual Dysphoria Disorder" ]



> Nicholas Cummings, former President of the American Psychological Association and one of the people who led the movement to have homosexuality declassified as a mental illness speaking to an audience of fellow professionals in 2005, stated the profession of Mental Health, psychology, psychiatry is dominated by social-activist groups. Dr. Cummings stated that he has had a life long commitment to promoting diversity, and has been appalled to see activists commandeer organizations such as the APA to further their own social agenda.
> 
> As per Dr. Cummings, when the APA conducts research, they do so only "when they know what the outcome is going to be...only predictably favorable outcomes are permissible."
> Beginning in the late 60s,  homosexual activist groups began lobbying leading psychiatric organizations to lay the groundwork for the deletion of homosexuality as a mental disorder.  Dr. Cummings in offering his proposal to declassify homosexuality as a Mental Disorder,  stated
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I made the resolution that being gay was not a mental illness, that it was characterological,.... I also said with that, that the APA, if it passes this resolution, will also vote to continue research that demonstrates whatever the research demonstrates. Unbiased, open research.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr. Rogers Wright, Cummings partner and co author of Destructive Trends in Mental Health: The Well Intentioned Path to Harm stated that "psychology has been ultra-liberal" Wright described the difficulties he has encountered with the American Psychological Association since they instituted a decision not to respond to their book in an effort to deny publicity for it. The APA actually banned the book and prohibited its members from reviewing or commenting on it. "So much for diversity and open-mindedness," Wright added.
> 
> American Psychological Association. Owned by the Gays
Click to expand...


*Even the US Congress* , in one of its more sane movements Censured the APA in the case known as The Rind Controversy ... this may be the first time in US history that the legislative branch of the federal government has officially condemned and censured a scientific publication, unless the socio-fascists completely take over the Government - which is the direction we seem to be headed - it shant be the last . 

In a related issue - In a letter to the APA, past and current presidents of the *Society for the Scientific Study of Sex* strongly objected to the APA&#8217;s  politicized pseudo-science - , saying that it &#8220;cast a chill on all such research&#8221;  and that in order to solve serious social problems, the* search for accurate information must be protected from political considerations and pressures*

Related Materials:
http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/00-017_politics_of_csa.htm

http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/00-018_uproar.htm


----------



## GreenBean

TheJedi said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As is generally the case the OP on this thread has strayed off in several different directions. The OP being Conversion therapy.
> 
> Conversion therapy, Ex Gay or reparative therapy is primarily promoted by the mental health organization, NARTH. NARTH teaches that homosexuality is abnormal, unnatural,undesirable and changeable sexual behavior.
> 
> Complete data on conversion theapy is quite often withheld or suppressed. This makes the actual success rate of conversion therapy difficult to guage with any real degree of accuracy. However, several studies have revealed sufficient data which can be utilized to arrive at crude estimate of the conversion success rate:
> 
> Studies on conversion therapy for unwanted homosexual attractions yield varying success rates, ranging from 30%-70%, these rates are no different than success rates for other therapeutic practices - However the other therapeutic practices, such as substance abuse and assorted phobias and fetishes are not politically incorrect - criticizing the Gay Agenda and lifestyle is.
> 
> A key word in the preceding statement is "unwanted homosexual attractions"  - as is the case with other therapeutic practices - treating somebody who doesn't want to be treated and believes they are confortable with their malady is statistically doomed to failure
> 
> Being politically charged , politically correct science [Bad Science] will frequently totally disregard the facts,  and the agenda of he who shouts the loudest wins.
> 
> Socio-Fascists are currently blatantly promoting homosexuality, it is surmised as part of Big Brothers concerted effort to expedite the disintegration of the family structure and reduce the surplus population/ curtail population growth.
> 
> So Why is the gay community afraid of "conversion therapy"
> 
> It is an admission that their sexual dysphoria -homosexuality is abnormal and something which needs to be treated.  If there is no disease , there should not be a need for a cure .
> The succes of Conversion Therapy, is the failure of the Gay Agenda - it flies in the face of their ideological agenda and propaganda.
> 
> Conversion Therapy is far from the voo-doo quackery preached by the politically correct socio-fascists and useful idiots - it is a viable and effective method of treating a psychologiocally degenerative disease - Homosexuality
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> NARTH is a religiously motivated, propagandist organization that has zero credibility in the world of psychology.
> 
> http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/spring/queer-science
> 
> National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> From the Wiki:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Position of professional organizations on sexual orientation change efforts
> Main article: Sexual orientation change efforts
> 
> In 2009 an American Psychological Association research summary[29] included the following statements:
> 
> The longstanding consensus of the behavioral and social sciences and the health and mental health professions is that homosexuality per se is a normal and positive variation of human sexual orientation.
> 
> SOCE [sexual orientation change efforts] has been controversial due to tensions between the values held by some faith-based organizations, on the one hand, and those held by lesbian, gay and bisexual rights organizations and professional and scientific organizations, on the other.
> 
> *There are no studies of adequate scientific rigor to conclude whether recent SOCE do work to change a persons sexual orientation.*
> 
> Some individuals and groups have promoted the idea of homosexuality as symptomatic of developmental defects or spiritual and moral failings and have argued that SOCE, including psychotherapy and religious efforts, could alter homosexual feelings and behaviors. Many of these individuals and groups appeared to be embedded within the larger context of conservative religious political movements that have supported the stigmatization of homosexuality on political or religious grounds.
> 
> *No major mental health professional organization has sanctioned efforts to change sexual orientation and most of them have adopted policy statements cautioning the profession and the public about treatments that purport to change sexual orientation. These include the American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, American Counseling Association, National Association of Social Workers in the USA,[30] Royal College of Psychiatrists,[31] and Australian Psychological Society.[32]*
> 
> The American Psychological Association and the Royal College of Psychiatrists expressed concerns that the positions espoused by NARTH are not supported by science and create an environment in which prejudice and discrimination can flourish.[31][33]
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...




> The American Psychological Association and the Royal College of Psychiatrists expressed concerns that the positions espoused by NARTH are not supported by science and create an environment in which prejudice and discrimination can flourish.



*They simply took the arguments directed against the APA and surplanted NARTH in it's place - that entire article is one the most brazen and blatant pseudo- scientific shitfests i've ever seen vomitted onto this board *

Nicholas Cummings, former President of the American Psychological Association and one of the people who led the movement to have homosexuality declassified as a mental illness speaking to an audience of fellow professionals in 2005, stated the profession of Mental Health, psychology, psychiatry is dominated by social-activist groups. Dr. Cummings stated that he has had a life long commitment to promoting diversity, and has been appalled to see activists commandeer organizations such as the APA to further their own social agenda.

As per Dr. Cummings, when the APA conducts research, they do so only "when they know what the outcome is going to be...only predictably favorable outcomes are permissible."
Beginning in the late 60s, homosexual activist groups began lobbying leading psychiatric organizations to lay the groundwork for the deletion of homosexuality as a mental disorder. Dr. Cummings in offering his proposal to declassify homosexuality as a Mental Disorder, stated 




> I made the resolution that being gay was not a mental illness, that it was characterological,.... I also said with that, that the APA, if it passes this resolution, will also vote to continue research that demonstrates whatever the research demonstrates. Unbiased, open research.





> Dr. Rogers Wright, Cummings partner and co author of Destructive Trends in Mental Health: The Well Intentioned Path to Harm stated that "psychology has been ultra-liberal" Wright described the difficulties he has encountered with the American Psychological Association since they instituted a decision not to respond to their book in an effort to deny publicity for it. The APA actually banned the book and prohibited its members from reviewing or commenting on it. "So much for diversity and open-mindedness," Wright added.



*American Psychological Association. Owned by the Gays*


----------



## Inevitable

GreenBean said:


> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> *GreenBean* I realize you are new , but kindly familiarize with the use of quotes and quote boxes , you have them somewhat fouled up -I know what I said - you know what you said but - this is an open forum and others may be a tad confused.
> 
> *Inevitable:*  I don't think anybody is going to be confused
> 
> *GreenBean*  The problem is you don't Think - period.
> 
> *GreenBean*  You state you have no claim to prove - but you do - and apparently are unable to - see you're learning newby , in no time what so ever you'll be just another cynical clueless left wing asshole - completely confortable wit the art of deflecting.
> 
> *Inevitable:* Hyperbole is a logical fallacy.
> 
> *GreenBean*  Sonny Boy - hiding behind $5 words that you heard your teacher use does not drive a point home
> 
> -------------------
> 
> *GreenBean*  You state - "No I did not make any claim. I simply challenged yours." but you did make a few unsubtantiated claims such as the improper use of the word "Dysphoria"
> 
> *Inevitable:*  Really the term "sexual disphoria" it means you are unwell with your sex. I adressed that claim, you just didn't like it.
> 
> NOW - *GreenBean* I presented factual evidence , you presented your opinion little boy - now go back and ask your teacher the difference between fact and opinion and see if the academia nut you took lessons from can give you some more $5 words to hide behind.
> 
> *Inevitable:*Yes, in those links there were no studies referenced. I read some claims but I saw no proof of them.
> 
> NOW - *GreenBean* *Obviously you didn't read them*, and you are once again practicing deflection - like your boyfriend Howey -*why let facts get in the way of your Opinons ?*
> 
> 
> *Inevitable:* Lastly I don't buy that the Apa was taken over by homosexuals. That sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. You have anything to prove that claim?
> 
> *GreenBean*  Yup again and again it's been presented - but presenting proof to someone who refuses to back up his own opinions ,tries to present them as fact is an absolute  waste of my time - *I'm not your fucking errand boy !*   You can'tbackupyour statements - so take a hike troll
> 
> 
> 
> You presented an extremely paranoid conspiracy theory. I need a little more than the word of the nutcase that came up with it to believe that crap. Sorry. You have nothing you presented nothing but fallacy. Now add some ad hominem.
> 
> If your paranoid delusions were really real you wouldn't need to call me a troll.
> 
> Prove your case, it should be able to stand on it's own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> okay faggot -but if you can't present anything other than your assinine opinons from here on in -then *STFU !*
> 
> Here's something from Dr. Nicholas Cummings, a former president of the APA and also the man who authored the motion back in 70s to have Homosexuality removed from the DSM ... [Or actually it wasn't completely removed - just reclassified as "Sexual Dysphoria Disorder" ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nicholas Cummings, former President of the American Psychological Association and one of the people who led the movement to have homosexuality declassified as a mental illness speaking to an audience of fellow professionals in 2005, stated the profession of Mental Health, psychology, psychiatry is dominated by social-activist groups. Dr. Cummings stated that he has had a life long commitment to promoting diversity, and has been appalled to see activists commandeer organizations such as the APA to further their own social agenda.
> 
> As per Dr. Cummings, when the APA conducts research, they do so only "when they know what the outcome is going to be...only predictably favorable outcomes are permissible."
> Beginning in the late 60s,  homosexual activist groups began lobbying leading psychiatric organizations to lay the groundwork for the deletion of homosexuality as a mental disorder.  Dr. Cummings in offering his proposal to declassify homosexuality as a Mental Disorder,  stated
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I made the resolution that being gay was not a mental illness, that it was characterological,.... I also said with that, that the APA, if it passes this resolution, will also vote to continue research that demonstrates whatever the research demonstrates. Unbiased, open research.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dr. Rogers Wright, Cummings partner and co author of Destructive Trends in Mental Health: The Well Intentioned Path to Harm stated that "psychology has been ultra-liberal" Wright described the difficulties he has encountered with the American Psychological Association since they instituted a decision not to respond to their book in an effort to deny publicity for it. The APA actually banned the book and prohibited its members from reviewing or commenting on it. "So much for diversity and open-mindedness," Wright added.
> 
> American Psychological Association. Owned by the Gays
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Even the US Congress* , in one of its more sane movements Censured the APA in the case known as The Rind Controversy ... this may be the first time in US history that the legislative branch of the federal government has officially condemned and censured a scientific publication, unless the socio-fascists completely take over the Government - which is the direction we seem to be headed - it shant be the last .
> 
> In a related issue - In a letter to the APA, past and current presidents of the *Society for the Scientific Study of Sex* strongly objected to the APAs  politicized pseudo-science - , saying that it cast a chill on all such research  and that in order to solve serious social problems, the* search for accurate information must be protected from political considerations and pressures*
> 
> Related Materials:
> http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/00-017_politics_of_csa.htm
> 
> http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/00-018_uproar.htm
Click to expand...


the tinfoil hat links you posted aren't credible.


----------



## Inevitable

GreenBean said:


> TheJedi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> As is generally the case the OP on this thread has strayed off in several different directions. The OP being Conversion therapy.
> 
> Conversion therapy, Ex Gay or reparative therapy is primarily promoted by the mental health organization, NARTH. NARTH teaches that homosexuality is abnormal, unnatural,undesirable and changeable sexual behavior.
> 
> Complete data on conversion theapy is quite often withheld or suppressed. This makes the actual success rate of conversion therapy difficult to guage with any real degree of accuracy. However, several studies have revealed sufficient data which can be utilized to arrive at crude estimate of the conversion success rate:
> 
> Studies on conversion therapy for unwanted homosexual attractions yield varying success rates, ranging from 30%-70%, these rates are no different than success rates for other therapeutic practices - However the other therapeutic practices, such as substance abuse and assorted phobias and fetishes are not politically incorrect - criticizing the Gay Agenda and lifestyle is.
> 
> A key word in the preceding statement is "unwanted homosexual attractions"  - as is the case with other therapeutic practices - treating somebody who doesn't want to be treated and believes they are confortable with their malady is statistically doomed to failure
> 
> Being politically charged , politically correct science [Bad Science] will frequently totally disregard the facts,  and the agenda of he who shouts the loudest wins.
> 
> Socio-Fascists are currently blatantly promoting homosexuality, it is surmised as part of Big Brothers concerted effort to expedite the disintegration of the family structure and reduce the surplus population/ curtail population growth.
> 
> So Why is the gay community afraid of "conversion therapy"
> 
> It is an admission that their sexual dysphoria -homosexuality is abnormal and something which needs to be treated.  If there is no disease , there should not be a need for a cure .
> The succes of Conversion Therapy, is the failure of the Gay Agenda - it flies in the face of their ideological agenda and propaganda.
> 
> Conversion Therapy is far from the voo-doo quackery preached by the politically correct socio-fascists and useful idiots - it is a viable and effective method of treating a psychologiocally degenerative disease - Homosexuality
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NARTH is a religiously motivated, propagandist organization that has zero credibility in the world of psychology.
> 
> http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/spring/queer-science
> 
> National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> From the Wiki:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *They simply took the arguments directed against the APA and surplanted NARTH in it's place - that entire article is one the most brazen and blatant pseudo- scientific shitfests i've ever seen vomitted onto this board *
> 
> Nicholas Cummings, former President of the American Psychological Association and one of the people who led the movement to have homosexuality declassified as a mental illness speaking to an audience of fellow professionals in 2005, stated the profession of Mental Health, psychology, psychiatry is dominated by social-activist groups. Dr. Cummings stated that he has had a life long commitment to promoting diversity, and has been appalled to see activists commandeer organizations such as the APA to further their own social agenda.
> 
> As per Dr. Cummings, when the APA conducts research, they do so only "when they know what the outcome is going to be...only predictably favorable outcomes are permissible."
> Beginning in the late 60s, homosexual activist groups began lobbying leading psychiatric organizations to lay the groundwork for the deletion of homosexuality as a mental disorder. Dr. Cummings in offering his proposal to declassify homosexuality as a Mental Disorder, stated
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I made the resolution that being gay was not a mental illness, that it was characterological,.... I also said with that, that the APA, if it passes this resolution, will also vote to continue research that demonstrates whatever the research demonstrates. Unbiased, open research.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr. Rogers Wright, Cummings partner and co author of Destructive Trends in Mental Health: The Well Intentioned Path to Harm stated that "psychology has been ultra-liberal" Wright described the difficulties he has encountered with the American Psychological Association since they instituted a decision not to respond to their book in an effort to deny publicity for it. The APA actually banned the book and prohibited its members from reviewing or commenting on it. "So much for diversity and open-mindedness," Wright added.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *American Psychological Association. Owned by the Gays*
Click to expand...

Narth isn't credible. They can't list any real pathology related to homosexuality.


----------



## GreenBean

Inevitable said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> You presented an extremely paranoid conspiracy theory. I need a little more than the word of the nutcase that came up with it to believe that crap. Sorry. You have nothing you presented nothing but fallacy. Now add some ad hominem.
> 
> If your paranoid delusions were really real you wouldn't need to call me a troll.
> 
> Prove your case, it should be able to stand on it's own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> okay faggot -but if you can't present anything other than your assinine opinons from here on in -then *STFU !*
> 
> Here's something from Dr. Nicholas Cummings, a former president of the APA and also the man who authored the motion back in 70s to have Homosexuality removed from the DSM ... [Or actually it wasn't completely removed - just reclassified as "Sexual Dysphoria Disorder" ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nicholas Cummings, former President of the American Psychological Association and one of the people who led the movement to have homosexuality declassified as a mental illness speaking to an audience of fellow professionals in 2005, stated the profession of Mental Health, psychology, psychiatry is dominated by social-activist groups. Dr. Cummings stated that he has had a life long commitment to promoting diversity, and has been appalled to see activists commandeer organizations such as the APA to further their own social agenda.
> 
> As per Dr. Cummings, when the APA conducts research, they do so only "when they know what the outcome is going to be...only predictably favorable outcomes are permissible."
> Beginning in the late 60s,  homosexual activist groups began lobbying leading psychiatric organizations to lay the groundwork for the deletion of homosexuality as a mental disorder.  Dr. Cummings in offering his proposal to declassify homosexuality as a Mental Disorder,  stated
> 
> 
> 
> Dr. Rogers Wright, Cummings partner and co author of Destructive Trends in Mental Health: The Well Intentioned Path to Harm stated that "psychology has been ultra-liberal" Wright described the difficulties he has encountered with the American Psychological Association since they instituted a decision not to respond to their book in an effort to deny publicity for it. The APA actually banned the book and prohibited its members from reviewing or commenting on it. "So much for diversity and open-mindedness," Wright added.
> 
> American Psychological Association. Owned by the Gays
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Even the US Congress* , in one of its more sane movements Censured the APA in the case known as The Rind Controversy ... this may be the first time in US history that the legislative branch of the federal government has officially condemned and censured a scientific publication, unless the socio-fascists completely take over the Government - which is the direction we seem to be headed - it shant be the last .
> 
> In a related issue - In a letter to the APA, past and current presidents of the *Society for the Scientific Study of Sex* strongly objected to the APA&#8217;s  politicized pseudo-science - , saying that it &#8220;cast a chill on all such research&#8221;  and that in order to solve serious social problems, the* search for accurate information must be protected from political considerations and pressures*
> 
> Related Materials:
> http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/00-017_politics_of_csa.htm
> 
> http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/00-018_uproar.htm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the tinfoil hat links you posted aren't credible.
Click to expand...


STFU - You have no argument  -the information from the IPCE site is peer reviewed , the  info regarding the congressionial censure is verifiable news -if you had half a brain you'd simply google "Rind Controversy"  THe APA Article is mirrored in similar format on multiple sites - if you had half a brain you could simply google Nicholas Cummings.

Get the penis pipe ouuta your mouth jerk off - and I do apologize for the comment in my previous post about your academia nut teacher - I was wrong you are definitely not college material , and certainly not worth my wasting any more time off  C YA


----------



## Inevitable

GreenBean said:


> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> okay faggot -but if you can't present anything other than your assinine opinons from here on in -then *STFU !*
> 
> Here's something from Dr. Nicholas Cummings, a former president of the APA and also the man who authored the motion back in 70s to have Homosexuality removed from the DSM ... [Or actually it wasn't completely removed - just reclassified as "Sexual Dysphoria Disorder" ]
> 
> 
> 
> *Even the US Congress* , in one of its more sane movements Censured the APA in the case known as The Rind Controversy ... this may be the first time in US history that the legislative branch of the federal government has officially condemned and censured a scientific publication, unless the socio-fascists completely take over the Government - which is the direction we seem to be headed - it shant be the last .
> 
> In a related issue - In a letter to the APA, past and current presidents of the *Society for the Scientific Study of Sex* strongly objected to the APA&#8217;s  politicized pseudo-science - , saying that it &#8220;cast a chill on all such research&#8221;  and that in order to solve serious social problems, the* search for accurate information must be protected from political considerations and pressures*
> 
> Related Materials:
> http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/00-017_politics_of_csa.htm
> 
> http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/00-018_uproar.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the tinfoil hat links you posted aren't credible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> STFU - You have no argument  -the information from the IPCE site is peer reviewed , the  info regarding the congressionial censure is verifiable news -if you had half a brain you'd simply google "Rind Controversy"  THe APA Article is mirrored in similar format on multiple sites - if you had helf a brain you could simply google Nicholas Cummings.
Click to expand...

It doesn't prove men from mars or what ever you have convinced yourself has taken over the APA really has.



> Get the penis pipe ouuta your mouth jerk off - and I do apologize for the comment in my previous post about your academia nut teacher - I was wrong you are definitely not college material , and certainly not worth my wasting any more time off  C YA


All you have is childish insults? I guess when you don't have anythingto back up your delusions and get called out on them that is what you have to fall back on

You are utterly obsessed with this, look at your signature. Why "us homosexuality such abig deal to you?


----------



## JakeStarkey

Greenbean Snow knows nothing, as Inevitable just went through GB's defensive conspiracies (in lieu of objective evidence) like a hot knife through butter.

Hetero-fascism will not die for some in America, but the fascists' children are rebuking that hatred in their lives.


----------



## Inevitable

JakeStarkey said:


> Greenbean Snow knows nothing, as Inevitable just went through GB's defensive conspiracies (in lieu of objective evidence) apart like a hot knife through butter.
> 
> Hetero-fascism will not die for some in America, but the fascists' children are rebuking that hatred in their lives.


I have ran into that assclown on other forums that he was subsequently removed from.

I just enjoy beating the argument.


----------



## GreenBean

JakeStarkey said:


> Greenbean Snow knows nothing, as Inevitable just went through GB's defensive conspiracies (in lieu of objective evidence) apart like a hot knife through butter.
> 
> Hetero-fascism will not die for some in America, but the fascists' children are rebuking that hatred in their lives.



Starkey Starkey full of shit and malarkey - the only reason I don't add you to my ignore list, as I just did with inevitable,  is because you make everybody else look so smart 

Greenbean "snow" whatever the fuck that is suppossed to mean - lmfao  *posts fact after fact that you penis puffers can't refute so you simply deflect *


----------



## emilynghiem

Sorry CCJ
But I know of too many teenagers kicked out of houses, on the streets, ending up in prostitution or drugs to survive, because they didn't get support to deal with these issues!

Why don't you talk to the parents of a 12 year old who shot himself dead, over a mix of gay issues, bullying at school, and his divorced parents that overwhelmed him.

This young man was WELL LOVED, had lots of support of friends and his parents who adored and accepted him, and it still wasn't enough when he lost his will to live.

Leaving young people "alone" is not enough! Heck, I know full grown adults who can't cope with multiple issues and need connection to counsel through so they don't lose it.



C_Clayton_Jones said:


> hadit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you are. California and New Jersey said you can't make kids go to this harmful "therapy"...adults are free to fuck themselves up if they choose to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But kids CAN be "counseled" on how to feel good about themselves despite being attracted to the same sex?  That is the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And this is an example of the ignorance associated with the myth of conversion therapy"; gay minors dont need to be counseled to feel good about being gay, as if it were some sort of disability.
> 
> Given love, support, and guidance by their parents, young gay persons are perfecting capable of being happy as gay individuals and grow to be happy, well adjusted gay adults, secure and confident in who they are.
> 
> Indeed, if theres any need for gay minors to receive counseling, its as a consequence of being subjected to the ignorance and hate of those hostile to gay Americans, where gay young people are being told the lie that theres something wrong with them and they need therapy, when in fact there is not, that in fact they are just as normal and just as healthy as heterosexual young people.
> 
> The best thing that can be done to help young gay persons is the simply leave them alone.
Click to expand...


----------



## Inevitable

GreenBean said:


> Starkey Starkey full of shit and malarkey - the only reason I don't add you to my ignore list, as I just did with inevitable,  is because you make everybody else look so smart
> 
> Greenbean "snow" whatever the fuck that is suppossed to mean - lmfao  *posts fact after fact that you penis puffers can't refute so you simply deflect *


I got ignored by somebody that can't argue with me.

It's okay greenbean take your ball and go home.

If I failed at making an argument why would you be putting me on ignore?

You just can't prove that men from mars have taken over the APA or whatever cockimamie paranoid conspiracy theory you cooked up in your little nugget. And you got so mad you want to ignore me. Aww...

All good though, basically it's a win when I get somebody to ignore me.


----------



## Howey

GreenBean said:


> NOW - *GreenBean* I presented factual evidence



lol...no you didn't. You presented the insane ramblings of an insane kook who's been discredited by the profession. Why has he claimed to have converted thousands of gays and has yet to name one name?

This guy has about as much credibility as Marcus "Sugar Daddy" Bachmann or your tiny dick.




Meanwhile, he and his boyfriend George Rekers were recently outed in a gay 

VIDEO: Rachel Maddow Spotlights Rekers? Hypocrisy and Harm to Youths | Truth Wins Out

and George Rekers Resigns From Anti-Gay Group In Wake Of 'Rentboy' Scandal (VIDEO: 'Rentboy' Speaks Out)



> Prominent anti-gay activist George Rekers, who was caught last week returning from a 10-day trip to Europe with a male escort he found on Rentboy.com, has terminated his association with a major anti-gay group.
> 
> Rekers has resigned from the board of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality, or NARTH, "to allow myself the time necessary to fight the false media reports that have been made against me," the retired professor said in a statement.
> 
> Once again, Rekers declined to dispute specific elements of the Miami New Times' coverage, choosing instead to contradict its obvious implications. "With the assistance of a defamation attorney, I will fight these false reports because I have not engaged in any homosexual behavior whatsoever," he said. "I am not gay and never have been."
> 
> NARTH, which advocates "therapy" to convert gays and fights scientific research suggesting that such treatment is ludicrous, attached a statement to Rekers' resignation asserting that his apparent hypocrisy does not reflect on their work. A NARTH spokesman told TPM that the extent of the organization's involvement in the Rentboy scandal is to tell Rekers "if he is innocent he needs to get a good lawyer."




There's your proof. All your so-called therapists just want to see boys strip naked and suck their dicks.


----------



## emilynghiem

JakeStarkey said:


> Greenbean Snow knows nothing, as Inevitable just went through GB's defensive conspiracies (in lieu of objective evidence) apart like a hot knife through butter.
> 
> Hetero-fascism will not die for some in America, but the fascists' children are rebuking that hatred in their lives.



 [MENTION=20412]JakeStarkey[/MENTION]

To Greenbean's credit, he does know there is denial on the left, and unresolved conflicts over the homosexual issue. He may not be diplomatic but self-defeating in trying to point out the problems, and go into personal attacks that don't help at all. But he knows something is wrong with this picture, and I agree with him on that point. Too bad he goes into sabotage mode, because whatever point he could make is lost in the gunfire.

As for you Jake
just because you have no experience, concept or background knowledge on
"spiritual healing" as applied to sexual abuse and behavior related to it,
does NOT mean "you know nothing and you are worthless"

You assume this about "conversion therapy" because you don't know the difference.
That is no reason to judge you, it's not your fault you don't have access to knowledge
like others do.

Greenbean has had experiences and knowledge that give him a different understanding.

Jake if you dismiss others as "worthless" just because you don't relate to our information,
then others do that to you. And they miss YOUR points because they shoot you down.

Is this what you want?
How do you expect to share YOUR points and information
if you dismiss other messengers with THEIR points "you deem worthless"

Do you really expect to succeed in communicating and CORRECTING
misinformation this way? By messengers competing to shoot each other down?

I don't agree when Greenbean does this, and don't think you need to resort to it either.

You have plenty of capability of researching and expressing points EFFECTIVELY
without resorting to games of blind denial and rejection to try to one-up anyone else.

I think you could win your arguments on content and principles,
not playing these same games that defeat the purpose. I thought the point was correction.
Are you sure you can't do better than this?


----------



## JakeStarkey

GreenBean said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Greenbean Snow knows nothing, as Inevitable just went through GB's defensive conspiracies (in lieu of objective evidence) apart like a hot knife through butter.
> 
> Hetero-fascism will not die for some in America, but the fascists' children are rebuking that hatred in their lives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Starkey Starkey full of shit and malarkey - the only reason I don't add you to my ignore list, as I just did with inevitable,  is because you make everybody else look so smart
> 
> Greenbean "snow" whatever the fuck that is suppossed to mean - lmfao  *posts fact after fact that you penis puffers can't refute so you simply deflect *
Click to expand...


Greenbean Snow has posted opinion and calls that fact.

He has added absolutely nothing of worth to the discussion.

When you have evidence, bring it.

Otherwise, you are going to keep getting hammered.


----------



## emilynghiem

Inevitable said:


> *American Psychological Association. Owned by the Gays*
> Narth isn't credible. They can't list any real pathology related to homosexuality.



1. Any "pathological condition" that could be found with homosexuality
can also be found with heterosexuality, ie regardless of orientation. these affect people in general, although homosexual behavior has been singled out as a more visible target.

If homosexual attraction is caused by "karma" so are other forms  of sexual attraction caused by "karma" that affect heterosexual populations as well (more so due to numbers alone)

Look at Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky -- how do you know THAT relationship or attraction wasn't caused by similar karma that makes homosexual partners or "soul mates" attracted to each other? 

Spiritual healing addresses ANY karma or conditions that is "unnatural" and a person wants to be freed from.

It is independent of gender or orientation. The same methods also heal a lot of other conditions, both physical or mental, so it's not just about sexual relationships.

Anything caused or related to "unnatural karma" any "unresolved/unforgiven" conflicts or abuses from the past, can be healed if these issues are identified, forgiven and healed.

Heterosexual people also suffer from sexual abuse, addiction, etc.
The same recovery and healing methods that apply to heterosexuals also apply to homosexuals.

==============

2. For resources, I recommend Francis MacNutt
* Healing (on the process of natural healing and distinctions between the different levels it is applied)
* Homosexuality Can it be Healed
where again he makes a distinction between approaches, instead of trying to judge all cases the same


----------



## Inevitable

emilynghiem said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Greenbean Snow knows nothing, as Inevitable just went through GB's defensive conspiracies (in lieu of objective evidence) apart like a hot knife through butter.
> 
> Hetero-fascism will not die for some in America, but the fascists' children are rebuking that hatred in their lives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [MENTION=20412]JakeStarkey[/MENTION]
> 
> To Greenbean's credit, he does know there is denial on the left, and unresolved conflicts over the homosexual issue. He may not be diplomatic but self-defeating in trying to point out the problems, and go into personal attacks that don't help at all. But he knows something is wrong with this picture, and I agree with him on that point. Too bad he goes into sabotage mode, because whatever point he could make is lost in the gunfire.
> 
> As for you Jake
> just because you have no experience, concept or background knowledge on
> "spiritual healing" as applied to sexual abuse and behavior related to it,
> does NOT mean "you know nothing and you are worthless"
> 
> You assume this about "conversion therapy" because you don't know the difference.
> That is no reason to judge you, it's not your fault you don't have access to knowledge
> like others do.
> 
> Greenbean has had experiences and knowledge that give him a different understanding.
> 
> Jake if you dismiss others as "worthless" just because you don't relate to our information,
> then others do that to you. And they miss YOUR points because they shoot you down.
> 
> Is this what you want?
> How do you expect to share YOUR points and information
> if you dismiss other messengers with THEIR points "you deem worthless"
> 
> Do you really expect to succeed in communicating and CORRECTING
> misinformation this way? By messengers competing to shoot each other down?
> 
> I don't agree when Greenbean does this, and don't think you need to resort to it either.
> 
> You have plenty of capability of researching and expressing points EFFECTIVELY
> without resorting to games of blind denial and rejection to try to one-up anyone else.
> 
> I think you could win your arguments on content and principles,
> not playing these same games that defeat the purpose. I thought the point was correction.
> Are you sure you can't do better than this?
Click to expand...

I wonthe argument on content.

Jake was just letting me know somebody saw it.


----------



## emilynghiem

JakeStarkey said:


> Greenbean Snow has posted opinion and calls that fact.
> 
> He has added absolutely nothing of worth to the discussion.
> 
> When you have evidence, bring it.
> 
> Otherwise, you are going to keep getting hammered.



I will agree he can obviously be worse than you,
and I expect more of you for that reason.

You also posted the presumption that "all conversion therapy"
was worthless and had nothing to offer.

So you took your opinion, based on not having any knowledge or experience
in the different TYPES of therapy out there, and posted this as if it were FACT.

So you make leaps, I do, everyone does.

If you make this leap, then Greenbean and I who have different sources of information
that tell us otherwise, will challenge you and seek to correct you on that point.

We are not anymore "worthless" than you are because you make leaps also,
and post opinions as facts if you truly believe that to be true. I can't fault
you for that, but do urge you to correct it when it happens, as I try to also.

If you and I want Greenbean NOT to post opinions as facts,
we should be careful not to do this either. And correct ourselves when we do.
(Three people caught me imposing biases on the legalization issue,
and I had to check myself on that, and realized it affected my response to other cases not directly related.
Everyone is going to have biases, holes in our range of knowledge and experience, that limit our perception and affect our opinions.)

I apologize if I come across that way when I do this,
I am willing to promote and support formal research into the spiritual healing therapy
I have found to be effective and natural, and causing no harm or risk to anyone,
as it works by free choice alongside medical and mental professional treatment.

I don't expect ANYONE to believe this without medical/scientific proof,
as the first natural response is "there is NO way this can be true."
So of course formal research studies "that can be replicated" are required
before any of this can be accepted or integrated as public knowledge.

Sources for setting up research: 
* Scott Peck, Glimpses of the Devil, where he observed this method applied to healing two severely schizophrenic patients otherwise deemed incureable until this method worked to restore their normal minds and will from obsessive "demonic" addictions
* Francis MacNutt, HEALING (also author of "Homosexuality Can it be healed")
both authors appealed to support medical research to understand this process of healing as natural so more people can benefit and, in the case of Peck's patients, more lives can be saved by earlier 
intervention (one of the patients made it to full recovery, the other died of complications from disease and medical conditions because she abused her body too long instead of getting the right help in time) 

Peck's first response to his friend's arguments that demons and deliverance were real was that these were DELUSIONS and had NO PLACE in science or medicine.
Upon observation, as a scientist seeking to debunk his friend's challenge, Peck changed his mind and urged formal medical research and development in this field as necessary for treating certain cases.
He knew he could not prove the spiritual source or process of the phenomena he witnessed; but he could quantify the symptoms, stages/changes, and resulting normalized state BEFORE and AFTER treatment, just like any other procedure that is supposed to cure an ill condition. So he advocated that that part of the process could be developed as a valid method of diagnosis and treatment.


----------



## GreenBean

emilynghiem said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Greenbean Snow knows nothing, as Inevitable just went through GB's defensive conspiracies (in lieu of objective evidence) apart like a hot knife through butter.
> 
> Hetero-fascism will not die for some in America, but the fascists' children are rebuking that hatred in their lives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [MENTION=20412]JakeStarkey[/MENTION]
> 
> To Greenbean's credit, he does know there is denial on the left, and unresolved conflicts over the homosexual issue. He may not be diplomatic but self-defeating in trying to point out the problems, and go into personal attacks that don't help at all. But he knows something is wrong with this picture, and I agree with him on that point. Too bad he goes into sabotage mode, because whatever point he could make is lost in the gunfire.
> 
> As for you Jake
> just because you have no experience, concept or background knowledge on
> "spiritual healing" as applied to sexual abuse and behavior related to it,
> does NOT mean "you know nothing and you are worthless"
> 
> You assume this about "conversion therapy" because you don't know the difference.
> That is no reason to judge you, it's not your fault you don't have access to knowledge
> like others do.
> 
> Greenbean has had experiences and knowledge that give him a different understanding.
> 
> Jake if you dismiss others as "worthless" just because you don't relate to our information,
> then others do that to you. And they miss YOUR points because they shoot you down.
> 
> Is this what you want?
> How do you expect to share YOUR points and information
> if you dismiss other messengers with THEIR points "you deem worthless"
> 
> Do you really expect to succeed in communicating and CORRECTING
> misinformation this way? By messengers competing to shoot each other down?
> 
> I don't agree when Greenbean does this, and don't think you need to resort to it either.
> 
> You have plenty of capability of researching and expressing points EFFECTIVELY
> without resorting to games of blind denial and rejection to try to one-up anyone else.
> 
> I think you could win your arguments on content and principles,
> not playing these same games that defeat the purpose. I thought the point was correction.
> Are you sure you can't do better than this?
Click to expand...




> To Greenbean's credit, he does know there is denial on the left, and unresolved conflicts over the homosexual issue



Emily , you are such a "gentile" person , who tried to see the good in everybody -  I can't be that charitable 



> Do you really expect to succeed in communicating and CORRECTING
> misinformation this way? By messengers competing to shoot each other down?
> 
> I don't agree when Greenbean does this, and don't think you need to resort to it either.



If you'll notice when inevitable first showed up - I treated him with the utmost respect -because he initially presented himself in an eloquent and respectable manner .  As the conversation progressed however , and he continued to deflect on issue after issue on which he was asked to present info. to back up his opinions - he refused and continued to deflect.  

Now I do notice another poster put upsome sort of rebutttal for him - as he was incapable of doing this himself, which I will address later tonight perhaps - [as the real world beckons and detracts from my interent rambles] 

And so far as his statemment that he has encountered me on other threads - quite possible - I've been kicked off alot of them - not so much for my vicous style, as for my Politically incorrect Opinions and I wear  it like a Badge of Honor .

Freedom is the Right to tell people what they do not want to hear [Orwell]  and to smack them up the side their heads while you're at it [GreeBean]


----------



## GreenBean

JakeStarkey said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Greenbean Snow knows nothing, as Inevitable just went through GB's defensive conspiracies (in lieu of objective evidence) apart like a hot knife through butter.
> 
> Hetero-fascism will not die for some in America, but the fascists' children are rebuking that hatred in their lives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Starkey Starkey full of shit and malarkey - the only reason I don't add you to my ignore list, as I just did with inevitable,  is because you make everybody else look so smart
> 
> Greenbean "snow" whatever the fuck that is suppossed to mean - lmfao  *posts fact after fact that you penis puffers can't refute so you simply deflect *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Greenbean Snow has posted opinion and calls that fact.
> 
> He has added absolutely nothing of worth to the discussion.
> 
> When you have evidence, bring it.
> 
> Otherwise, you are going to keep getting hammered.
Click to expand...


Where was I hammerred Jack Ass ?     Not in the realm of reality or factual evidence - drive by comments prove nothing.


----------



## Inevitable

emilynghiem said:


> 1. Any "pathological condition" that could be found with homosexuality
> can also be found with heterosexuality, ie regardless of orientation. these affect people in general, although homosexual behavior has been singled out as a more visible target.


That would mean that the pathological condition isn'tat all related to orientation. 



> If homosexual attraction is caused by "karma" so are other forms  of sexual attraction caused by "karma" that affect heterosexual populations as well (more so due to numbers alone)
> 
> Look at Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky -- how do you know THAT relationship or attraction wasn't caused by similar karma that makes homosexual partners or "soul mates" attracted to each other?
> 
> Spiritual healing addresses ANY karma or conditions that is "unnatural" and a person wants to be freed from.
> 
> It is independent of gender or orientation. The same methods also heal a lot of other conditions, both physical or mental, so it's not just about sexual relationships.
> 
> Anything caused or related to "unnatural karma" any "unresolved/unforgiven" conflicts or abuses from the past, can be healed if these issues are identified, forgiven and healed.


Karma? Sorry, that ship doesn't sail.



> Heterosexual people also suffer from sexual abuse, addiction, etc.
> The same recovery and healing methods that apply to heterosexuals also apply to homosexuals.


 For people recovering from sexual abuse yes. That hasn't anything to dowith homosexuality.  

==============



> 2. For resources, I recommend Francis MacNutt
> * Healing (on the process of natural healing and distinctions between the different levels it is applied)
> * Homosexuality Can it be Healed
> where again he makes a distinction between approaches, instead of trying to judge all cases the same


No thanks. And your last statement is a complete lie. He obviously judges of he thinks it needs to be healed.


----------



## Inevitable

GreenBean said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> Starkey Starkey full of shit and malarkey - the only reason I don't add you to my ignore list, as I just did with inevitable,  is because you make everybody else look so smart
> 
> Greenbean "snow" whatever the fuck that is suppossed to mean - lmfao  *posts fact after fact that you penis puffers can't refute so you simply deflect *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Greenbean Snow has posted opinion and calls that fact.
> 
> He has added absolutely nothing of worth to the discussion.
> 
> When you have evidence, bring it.
> 
> Otherwise, you are going to keep getting hammered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where was I hammerred Jack Ass ?     Not in the realm of reality or factual evidence - drive by comments prove nothing.
Click to expand...

You failed to prove your conspiracy theory, you put me on ignorebecause I call it what it is. Seems you were devastatingly hammered.


----------



## emilynghiem

Inevitable said:


> I wonthe argument on content.
> 
> Jake was just letting me know somebody saw it.



To be fair, let's dig up some content behind what
Greenbean and I are arguing, that there are some
forms of therapy that do heal people in beneficial, voluntary, and natural ways
and NOT abusive, coercive, fraudulent, forced/unnatural in any way.

Greenbean may lose on delivery and presentation.
But there is some truth to his objections he is not able to express,
just protest very loudly, insulting or attacking others which of course will fail.

The research speaks for itself. Let's try focusing on that content
and help show Greenbean better ways to share this information in the future.


----------



## Inevitable

emilynghiem said:


> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonthe argument on content.
> 
> Jake was just letting me know somebody saw it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair, let's dig up some content behind what
> Greenbean and I are arguing, that there are some
> forms of therapy that do heal people in beneficial, voluntary, and natural ways
> and NOT abusive, coercive, fraudulent, forced/unnatural in any way.
Click to expand...

Since there is nothing wrong with being homosexual why would anybody need healing k



> Greenbean may lose on delivery and presentation.


And facts


> But there is some truth to his objections


 No ma'am. His objections are pure bigotry. He apparently had you fooled. 





> he is not able to express,
> just protest very loudly, insulting or attacking others which of course will fail.


Its because it's complete hogwash.



> The research speaks for itself. Let's try focusing on that content
> and help show Greenbean better ways to share this information in the future.


The best way to share lies and hatred? Just don't.  You don't have to post unsupported malarkey, you don't have to fabricate conspiracy theories if he just wasn'tso insistent on the lie .


----------



## JakeStarkey

Seriously mannered.

Greenbean Snow, how has marriage equality injured your own personal and civil liberties


----------



## JakeStarkey

Emily, there is denial on the hetero-fascist front and confusion constitutionally, medically, and psychologically on this issue.

Tell us how marriage equality has harmed your personal and civil liberties?


----------



## TheJedi

hadit said:


> Interesting that, if you want it, you can get counseling on how to live like a gay person, how to act like a person of the opposite gender, or how to feel good about yourself even though you're attracted to your own gender, but even if you want it, you are not allowed to get counseling on how to go the other direction.



Because no gay person ever has wanted to change but rather they are coerced or, in the case of gay kids, forced into it which is why it is being banned. In other cases, when say, a married man is caught having an affair with another man because he was a closeted homosexual afraid to be open for fear of persecution, will lie and say he has a problem that needs to be fixed because he fears the backlash from his community.


----------



## Montrovant

TheJedi said:


> hadit said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting that, if you want it, you can get counseling on how to live like a gay person, how to act like a person of the opposite gender, or how to feel good about yourself even though you're attracted to your own gender, but even if you want it, you are not allowed to get counseling on how to go the other direction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because no gay person ever has wanted to change but rather they are coerced or, in the case of gay kids, forced into it which is why it is being banned. In other cases, when say, a married man is caught having an affair with another man because he was a closeted homosexual afraid to be open for fear of persecution, will lie and say he has a problem that needs to be fixed because he fears the backlash from his community.
Click to expand...


Wait, you can speak for all gay people?

Perhaps this gay conversion therapy is a crock, perhaps it is harmful, perhaps it should be banned.  None of that provides you the authority to speak for all gay people with any accuracy.


----------



## jillian

Inevitable said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Greenbean Snow has posted opinion and calls that fact.
> 
> He has added absolutely nothing of worth to the discussion.
> 
> When you have evidence, bring it.
> 
> Otherwise, you are going to keep getting hammered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where was I hammerred Jack Ass ?     Not in the realm of reality or factual evidence - drive by comments prove nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You failed to prove your conspiracy theory, you put me on ignorebecause I call it what it is. Seems you were devastatingly hammered.
Click to expand...


he was. but if he proclaims himself victor, he can feel better about himself.


----------



## jillian

Montrovant said:


> TheJedi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hadit said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting that, if you want it, you can get counseling on how to live like a gay person, how to act like a person of the opposite gender, or how to feel good about yourself even though you're attracted to your own gender, but even if you want it, you are not allowed to get counseling on how to go the other direction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because no gay person ever has wanted to change but rather they are coerced or, in the case of gay kids, forced into it which is why it is being banned. In other cases, when say, a married man is caught having an affair with another man because he was a closeted homosexual afraid to be open for fear of persecution, will lie and say he has a problem that needs to be fixed because he fears the backlash from his community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wait, you can speak for all gay people?
> 
> Perhaps this gay conversion therapy is a crock, perhaps it is harmful, perhaps it should be banned.  None of that provides you the authority to speak for all gay people with any accuracy.
Click to expand...


how is he speaking for all gay people? science is science. the reality is I suspect many gay people would love to be heterosexual because it's easier. it's easier because of people who talk about "conversion therapy" as if it is something to be desired. who chase them from their churches by judgmental and ugly treatment. and who, instead of saying "ok, this is who you are", spew garbage about them being aberrations and sinners.

gay people are gay. heteros are hetero. let me know when someone can force a straight man to want sex with other men.


----------



## Seawytch

Montrovant said:


> TheJedi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hadit said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting that, if you want it, you can get counseling on how to live like a gay person, how to act like a person of the opposite gender, or how to feel good about yourself even though you're attracted to your own gender, but even if you want it, you are not allowed to get counseling on how to go the other direction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because no gay person ever has wanted to change but rather they are coerced or, in the case of gay kids, forced into it which is why it is being banned. In other cases, when say, a married man is caught having an affair with another man because he was a closeted homosexual afraid to be open for fear of persecution, will lie and say he has a problem that needs to be fixed because he fears the backlash from his community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, you can speak for all gay people?
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps this gay conversion therapy is a crock, perhaps it is harmful, perhaps it should be banned.  None of that provides you the authority to speak for all gay people with any accuracy.
Click to expand...



An adult gay that thinks they can change their orientation can get unicorn fart therapy if they want to. In CA and NJ, you can't send kids to this bullshit, adults can do it all they want. In Texas, Rick Oops Perry wants to spend taxpayer money on it.


----------



## Montrovant

jillian said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheJedi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because no gay person ever has wanted to change but rather they are coerced or, in the case of gay kids, forced into it which is why it is being banned. In other cases, when say, a married man is caught having an affair with another man because he was a closeted homosexual afraid to be open for fear of persecution, will lie and say he has a problem that needs to be fixed because he fears the backlash from his community.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, you can speak for all gay people?
> 
> Perhaps this gay conversion therapy is a crock, perhaps it is harmful, perhaps it should be banned.  None of that provides you the authority to speak for all gay people with any accuracy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> how is he speaking for all gay people? science is science. the reality is I suspect many gay people would love to be heterosexual because it's easier. it's easier because of people who talk about "conversion therapy" as if it is something to be desired. who chase them from their churches by judgmental and ugly treatment. and who, instead of saying "ok, this is who you are", spew garbage about them being aberrations and sinners.
> 
> gay people are gay. heteros are hetero. let me know when someone can force a straight man to want sex with other men.
Click to expand...


He said, "no gay person ever has wanted to change".  I'm not trying to argue for conversion therapy, but I dislike when someone feels they can speak for the wants and desires of all gay people, or all people of any large group.


----------



## Inevitable

Montrovant said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, you can speak for all gay people?
> 
> Perhaps this gay conversion therapy is a crock, perhaps it is harmful, perhaps it should be banned.  None of that provides you the authority to speak for all gay people with any accuracy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how is he speaking for all gay people? science is science. the reality is I suspect many gay people would love to be heterosexual because it's easier. it's easier because of people who talk about "conversion therapy" as if it is something to be desired. who chase them from their churches by judgmental and ugly treatment. and who, instead of saying "ok, this is who you are", spew garbage about them being aberrations and sinners.
> 
> gay people are gay. heteros are hetero. let me know when someone can force a straight man to want sex with other men.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He said, "no gay person ever has wanted to change".  I'm not trying to argue for conversion therapy, but I dislike when someone feels they can speak for the wants and desires of all gay people, or all people of any large group.
Click to expand...

I am sure many gay people at one point or another in their lives would want to be straight. Just like at one point in people's lives they may want to have different patents or to be a different race, or girls wanting bigger breasts or straighter hair, perhaps to be thinner or have more muscle mass, so on. You have to learn to accept yourself, which is why this "therapy" should be scrutinized.


----------



## TheJedi

Inevitable said:


> I am sure many gay people at one point or another in their lives would want to be straight. Just like at one point in people's lives they may want to have different patents or to be a different race, or girls wanting bigger breasts or straighter hair, perhaps to be thinner or have more muscle mass, so on. You have to learn to accept yourself, which is why this "therapy" should be scrutinized.



It has been scrutinized and rejected by nearly every reputable mental health and medical organization on earth. Only ones that have not rejected it are ones backed by religious groups like NARTH which has been discredited multiple times.


----------



## Inevitable

TheJedi said:


> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am sure many gay people at one point or another in their lives would want to be straight. Just like at one point in people's lives they may want to have different patents or to be a different race, or girls wanting bigger breasts or straighter hair, perhaps to be thinner or have more muscle mass, so on. You have to learn to accept yourself, which is why this "therapy" should be scrutinized.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has been scrutinized and rejected by nearly every reputable mental health and medical organization on earth. Only ones that have not rejected it are ones backed by religious groups like NARTH which has been discredited multiple times.
Click to expand...

I agree, it has. The political climate rejects scrutiny.

I don't see why this is viewed any differently than plastic surgery for teens. Changing something you don't want to accept about yourself doesn't fix anything.


----------



## GreenBean

GreenBean said:


> NOW - *GreenBean* I presented factual evidence





Howey said:


> lol...no you didn't. You presented the insane ramblings of an insane kook who's been discredited by the profession. Why has he claimed to have converted thousands of gays and has yet to name one name?
> 
> This guy has about as much credibility as Marcus "Sugar Daddy" Bachmann or your tiny dick.



*GreenBean*
So you feel Dr Cummings was a "Kook" when he authored and supported the motion to remove Homosexuality from the DSM - effectively delisting it as a Mental Illness ??  Hmmm - intersting point and not without validity - I hoave to agree that was a assinine move -  so whatelse do you feelDr.Cummings has done that would classify him as a kook- other than to disagree with your wholly unqualified Opinion ?

And while you're at it what about *Dr. Rogers Wright*  former member of APA's Board of Directors, who stated that "psychology has been ultra-libera...and beholden to the Gay Rights movement" Wright described the difficulties he has encountered with the American Psychological Association - 

Or * Dr. A. Dean Byrd* another former APA officer who has bailed out of theorganization - because it has lost all crredibility

Or *Dr. Frank Farley* who stated that "...APA should give the widest possible hearing to Dr. Cummings' concern about APA's preoccupation with political correctness, and should instead focus efforts on the decline in psychological practice."

Or *Dr. Jeffrey Satinover, M.D*. In his talk entitled "Judicial Abuse of Scientific Literature on Homosexuality by the American Mental Health Professional Organizations," he offered a tediously referenced description of ethics and morals breeches in recent legal cases that have led to landmark changes in family-law policy.

Or *Dr. Richard Fitzgibbons* who has stated said that "the American Psychiatric Association (APA) has continuously ignored evidence that homosexuality is a manifestation of a psychiatric disorder."

Or *Dr. Apu Chakraborty* who has been blasted by the Gay Mafia for producing findings that were heresy to their ears and eyes  - he prooved that  the rates of mental disorder among gays were significantly higher,nay ridiculously higher than sane people.  Rates of depression, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, phobia, self-harm, suicidal thoughts, substance abuse , alcohol dependence. ......

*I guess they were all quacks Right ?*  And of course you are much more qualified to judge the issues because you're a cock sucker - I'd call you a dirty cock sucker- but I have no proof of that and couldn't really give a flying fuck either -  Oh and  FYI -if you truly are a dirty cock sucker watch out for shigelosis - you don know what shigelosis is don't you?  It's an extremely common disease among faggots - it comes from eating their partners feces


----------



## GreenBean

TheJedi said:


> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am sure many gay people at one point or another in their lives would want to be straight. Just like at one point in people's lives they may want to have different patents or to be a different race, or girls wanting bigger breasts or straighter hair, perhaps to be thinner or have more muscle mass, so on. You have to learn to accept yourself, which is why this "therapy" should be scrutinized.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has been scrutinized and rejected by nearly every reputable mental health and medical organization on earth. Only ones that have not rejected it are ones backed by religious groups like NARTH which has been discredited multiple times.
Click to expand...


You are sadly misinformed Mr.Vader - I fear you are heavily influenced by the Dark Side of the force.


----------



## GreenBean

jillian said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheJedi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because no gay person ever has wanted to change but rather they are coerced or, in the case of gay kids, forced into it which is why it is being banned. In other cases, when say, a married man is caught having an affair with another man because he was a closeted homosexual afraid to be open for fear of persecution, will lie and say he has a problem that needs to be fixed because he fears the backlash from his community.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, you can speak for all gay people?
> 
> Perhaps this gay conversion therapy is a crock, perhaps it is harmful, perhaps it should be banned.  None of that provides you the authority to speak for all gay people with any accuracy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> how is he speaking for all gay people? science is science. the reality is I suspect many gay people would love to be heterosexual because it's easier. it's easier because of people who talk about "conversion therapy" as if it is something to be desired. who chase them from their churches by judgmental and ugly treatment. and who, instead of saying "ok, this is who you are", spew garbage about them being aberrations and sinners.
> 
> gay people are gay. heteros are hetero. let me know when someone can force a straight man to want sex with other men.
Click to expand...


I don't believe an adult male without latent homosexual tendencies to begin with, can be converted to homosexuality  - Among Adult Females however - it is actually more common than you would imagine - theoretically it's relative to the differring gender based sex drives.

*The problem lies in conversion of Children* - which itself is not an easy task , but much more feasible when they are exposed to it as early as possible .  Which is one of the many reasons Gay Activists salivate at the prospects of getting into the School curriculum.



> I would very much *like for many of these young boys to grow up and start fucking men. I want lots of young ladies to develop into young women who voraciously munch box. * I want this just as badly as many parents want their own kids to grow up and rub urinary tracts together to trade proteins and forcefully excrete a baby.  *D.Villareal - Queerty.com*


----------



## GreenBean

jillian said:


> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where was I hammerred Jack Ass ?     Not in the realm of reality or factual evidence - drive by comments prove nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> You failed to prove your conspiracy theory, you put me on ignorebecause I call it what it is. Seems you were devastatingly hammered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> he was. but if he proclaims himself victor, he can feel better about himself.
Click to expand...


Inevitable:  Proven - and you've been refuted 

PS - I can still see your poorly informed and pathetic attempts to deflect when others quote you - but do please keep coming back at me - if you ever do manage to come up with a valid intellectual argument to justify your highly biased and wholly non-objective opinions - perhaps I'll get back to you -in the interim - fuck off.


----------



## Inevitable

GreenBean said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, you can speak for all gay people?
> 
> Perhaps this gay conversion therapy is a crock, perhaps it is harmful, perhaps it should be banned.  None of that provides you the authority to speak for all gay people with any accuracy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how is he speaking for all gay people? science is science. the reality is I suspect many gay people would love to be heterosexual because it's easier. it's easier because of people who talk about "conversion therapy" as if it is something to be desired. who chase them from their churches by judgmental and ugly treatment. and who, instead of saying "ok, this is who you are", spew garbage about them being aberrations and sinners.
> 
> gay people are gay. heteros are hetero. let me know when someone can force a straight man to want sex with other men.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't believe an adult male without latent homosexual tendencies to begin with, can be converted to homosexuality  - Among Adult Females however - it is actually more common than you would imagine - theoretically it's relative to the differring gender based sex drives.
> 
> *The problem lies in conversion of Children* - which itself is not an easy task , but much more feasible when they are exposed to it as early as possible .  Which is one of the many reasons Gay Activists salivate at the prospects of getting into the School curriculum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would very much *like for many of these young boys to grow up and start fucking men. I want lots of young ladies to develop into young women who voraciously munch box. * I want this just as badly as many parents want their own kids to grow up and rub urinary tracts together to trade proteins and forcefully excrete a baby.  *D.Villareal - Queerty.com*
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


you can't convert children into gay people. I am sure somebody hs told you that yet you likelyjust stomp off and ignore them like a petulant little child


----------



## Inevitable

GreenBean said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> You failed to prove your conspiracy theory, you put me on ignorebecause I call it what it is. Seems you were devastatingly hammered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> he was. but if he proclaims himself victor, he can feel better about himself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Inevitable:  Proven - and you've been refuted
> 
> PS - I can still see your poorly informed and pathetic attempts to deflect when others quote you - but do please keep coming back at me - if you ever do manage to come up with a valid intellectual argument to justify your highly biased and wholly non-objective opinions - perhaps I'll get back to you -in the interim - fuck off.
Click to expand...



You put me on ignore because you can't form an argument. I am ready to smash you again any time. You put me on ignore you lost. It's the best when you can make a cry baby run away.


----------



## GreenBean

Seawytch said:


> hadit said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting that, if you want it, you can get counseling on how to live like a gay person, how to act like a person of the opposite gender, or how to feel good about yourself even though you're attracted to your own gender, but even if you want it, you are not allowed to get counseling on how to go the other direction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you are. California and New Jersey said you can't make kids go to this harmful "therapy"...adults are free to fuck themselves up if they choose to.
Click to expand...




> Jun 11, 2014 : In New Jersey, Liberty Counsel has brought two separate lawsuits challenging New Jersey's virtually identical law known as Assembly Bill 3371 ("A3371"). ...... a licensed psychologist, and a licensed professional counselor. *One of those counselors is a former lesbian who received SOCE counseling and was successfully able to eliminate her unwanted same-sex attractions*. The district court denied Liberty Counsel's request  ... saying that A3371 was merely a professional regulation with no First Amendment implications     Liberty Counsel is appealing



There are elements in our society standing up to the Queer Agenda. Lberty Counsel is one of them.


----------



## Inevitable

GreenBean said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hadit said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting that, if you want it, you can get counseling on how to live like a gay person, how to act like a person of the opposite gender, or how to feel good about yourself even though you're attracted to your own gender, but even if you want it, you are not allowed to get counseling on how to go the other direction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you are. California and New Jersey said you can't make kids go to this harmful "therapy"...adults are free to fuck themselves up if they choose to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jun 11, 2014 : In New Jersey, Liberty Counsel has brought two separate lawsuits challenging New Jersey's virtually identical law known as Assembly Bill 3371 ("A3371"). ...... a licensed psychologist, and a licensed professional counselor. *One of those counselors is a former lesbian who received SOCE counseling and was successfully able to eliminate her unwanted same-sex attractions*. The district court denied Liberty Counsel's request  ... saying that A3371 was merely a professional regulation with no First Amendment implications     Liberty Counsel is appealing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are elements in our society standing up to the Queer Agenda. Lberty Counsel is one of them.
Click to expand...

Yes it's all a plot to get you.

Why are you so paranoid about this?


----------



## emilynghiem

GreenBean said:


> Where was I hammerred Jack Ass ?     Not in the realm of reality or factual evidence - drive by comments prove nothing.



  [MENTION=46353]GreenBean[/MENTION] I think you do enough to sabotage your own arguments
I don't think you need anyone's help with that

Arguing over  "which sources are valid or invalid"
"Which people are worthless or jackasses"

These are all BESIDES the point, those are distracting from content, and you will lose.
People will stick to their beliefs, you cannot win this way.

To change minds on something THIS profound, people need to see DIRECT PROOF.
If you can talk about how YOU changed and became a different person,
and how the SAME process CHANGED someone else regarding orientation.

Then if they see that case is valid, you might change minds or open them up to the POSSIBILITY.
But most people still need proof, or it doesn't make sense and isn't real to them.

With Scott Peck, who did not believe the process of deliverance was real,
it took witnessing the process applied to two Schizophrenic patients otherwise deemed incureable and beyond treatment.

He did NOT change his mind just because his friend argued "which source" was valid or not.

Peck had to SEE IT FOR HIMSELF. He changed his mind, but it took him 10 years to explain the observation in writing, because the changes were so profound.

It's going to take medical research, replicated consistently, to show the difference
between the ABUSIVE FRAUDULENT malpractice that people are protesting for banning,
versus the natural healing and recovery process that is consistent with medical therapy.

You are not going to change minds by insulting or attacking anyone, which makes you look
like a "jackass" if that's all you have to argue with!

Now Greenbean, do you have other medical research or sources to add?
Some resources I recommend for formal medical research to replicate studies are here:
freespiritualhealing | Resources for Healing and Forgiveness Therapy

If you have more references to ACTUAL cases, people or practices that are successful,
free, effective and without any issues of fraud/complaints/malpractice, please post those!
Thanks, Greenbean


----------



## emilynghiem

Inevitable said:


> you can't convert children into gay people. I am sure somebody hs told you that yet you likelyjust stomp off and ignore them like a petulant little child



A friend of mine who counsels people for healing and recovery for diverse conditions,
told me one woman she helped out of the cycle of abuse
was sexually abused which caused her to sexually abuse others as a lesbian.

Her defining moment in counseling was when she explained that "someone hurt her"
and had to come to understand that if she wanted to be forgiven for abusing others
that was MORE people she hurt than the one person who hurt her.

All that had to be forgiven before she could be freed from this abusive pattern.

Yes, you can argue she never was lesbian.
She was naturally heterosexual and the behavior was abusive (regardless what orientation in which it was expressed)

Because more of our population is heterosexual by %
of course more sexual abuse is going to be heterosexual.

Not ALL people with sexual abuse or sexual addiction patterns
were "sexually abused as children"

But if you talk with counselors and prison outreach,
the cycle of abuse of all kinds strongly correlates with childhood/parental relations.

Children of Incarcerated parents have a much higher risk of continuing in that same pattern.

And the same therapies and recovery, based on forgiveness to prevent abuses from repeating, apply to any number of conditions. Sexual abuses that are homosexual are just one area, that just happens to be targeted. The heterosexual abuses are far more common because of the greater population; but for some weird reason, not enough people cared to research healing of THOSE abuses until the homosexuality issue got targeted.

It is like the denial of other problems not getting addressed (like rapists and pedophiles) have built up, and all that got "projected" onto "homosexuality" as a visible target.

Instead of focusing and arguing there, why not EXPAND the real focus to address ALL areas where sexual abuse and mental and criminal illness could benefit from therapy?

This is the wisdom I see in the changes made to the Republican platform that took out the language targeting and blaming "homosexuality" and replaced it with "sexual sins" in general. I believe that is the better approach, to address ALL sexual abuse, and not just target homosexuality which is not the cause of the real problems.


----------



## Inevitable

emilynghiem said:


> A friend of mine who counsels people for healing and recovery for diverse conditions,
> told me one woman she helped out of the cycle of abuse
> was sexually abused which caused her to sexually abuse others as a lesbian.
> 
> Her defining moment in counseling was when she explained that "someone hurt her"
> and had to come to understand that if she wanted to be forgiven for abusing others
> that was MORE people she hurt than the one person who hurt her.


You need to get this out of your mind. Sexual abuse isn't the reason people are gay.



> All that had to be forgiven before she could be freed from this abusive pattern.
> 
> Yes, you can argue she never was lesbian.
> She was naturally heterosexual and the behavior was abusive (regardless what orientation in which it was expressed)
> 
> Because more of our population is heterosexual by %
> of course more sexual abuse is going to be heterosexual.
> 
> Not ALL people with sexual abuse or sexual addiction patterns
> were "sexually abused as children"
> 
> But if you talk with counselors and prison outreach,
> the cycle of abuse of all kinds strongly correlates with childhood/parental relations.
> 
> Children of Incarcerated parents have a much higher risk of continuing in that same pattern.
> 
> And the same therapies and recovery, based on forgiveness to prevent abuses from repeating, apply to any number of conditions. Sexual abuses that are homosexual are just one area, that just happens to be targeted. The heterosexual abuses are far more common because of the greater population; but for some weird reason, not enough people cared to research healing of THOSE abuses until the homosexuality issue got targeted.
> 
> It is like the denial of other problems not getting addressed (like rapists and pedophiles) have built up, and all that got "projected" onto "homosexuality" as a visible target.
> 
> Instead of focusing and arguing there, why not EXPAND the real focus to address ALL areas where sexual abuse and mental and criminal illness could benefit from therapy?


Talk about this in the appropriate thread none of this has anything to do with my statement. I wasn't talking about sexual abuse.

I was trying to explain the link between homosexuality and sexual abuse is not real. This needs to be in the law forum or you need to start a thread that is about sexual abuse.



> This is the wisdom I see in the changes made to the Republican platform that took out the language targeting and blaming "homosexuality" and replaced it with "sexual sins" in general.


That would be highly inappropriate setting as homosexuality isn't sexual necessarily or at all sinful  





> I believe that is the better approach, to address ALL sexual abuse, and not just target homosexuality which is not the cause of the real problems.


I think it's a bad move. Whenever the republicanparty becomes all bible thumpy it doesn't go well for them. The bible thumpers aren't conservative, they are progressive, the conservative party would be best served by dumping them. Most Christians aren't bible thumpers. I think using that language would alienate most ofthe party.

Simply being against Tahoe and sexual abuse would be plenty.


----------



## Montrovant

Inevitable said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> A friend of mine who counsels people for healing and recovery for diverse conditions,
> told me one woman she helped out of the cycle of abuse
> was sexually abused which caused her to sexually abuse others as a lesbian.
> 
> Her defining moment in counseling was when she explained that "someone hurt her"
> and had to come to understand that if she wanted to be forgiven for abusing others
> that was MORE people she hurt than the one person who hurt her.
> 
> 
> 
> You need to get this out of your mind. Sexual abuse isn't the reason people are gay.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that had to be forgiven before she could be freed from this abusive pattern.
> 
> Yes, you can argue she never was lesbian.
> She was naturally heterosexual and the behavior was abusive (regardless what orientation in which it was expressed)
> 
> Because more of our population is heterosexual by %
> of course more sexual abuse is going to be heterosexual.
> 
> Not ALL people with sexual abuse or sexual addiction patterns
> were "sexually abused as children"
> 
> But if you talk with counselors and prison outreach,
> the cycle of abuse of all kinds strongly correlates with childhood/parental relations.
> 
> Children of Incarcerated parents have a much higher risk of continuing in that same pattern.
> 
> And the same therapies and recovery, based on forgiveness to prevent abuses from repeating, apply to any number of conditions. Sexual abuses that are homosexual are just one area, that just happens to be targeted. The heterosexual abuses are far more common because of the greater population; but for some weird reason, not enough people cared to research healing of THOSE abuses until the homosexuality issue got targeted.
> 
> It is like the denial of other problems not getting addressed (like rapists and pedophiles) have built up, and all that got "projected" onto "homosexuality" as a visible target.
> 
> Instead of focusing and arguing there, why not EXPAND the real focus to address ALL areas where sexual abuse and mental and criminal illness could benefit from therapy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Talk about this in the appropriate thread none of this has anything to do with my statement. I wasn't talking about sexual abuse.
> 
> I was trying to explain the link between homosexuality and sexual abuse is not real. This needs to be in the law forum or you need to start a thread that is about sexual abuse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the wisdom I see in the changes made to the Republican platform that took out the language targeting and blaming "homosexuality" and replaced it with "sexual sins" in general.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That would be highly inappropriate setting as homosexuality isn't sexual necessarily or at all sinful
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I believe that is the better approach, to address ALL sexual abuse, and not just target homosexuality which is not the cause of the real problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it's a bad move. Whenever the republicanparty becomes all bible thumpy it doesn't go well for them. The bible thumpers aren't conservative, they are progressive, the conservative party would be best served by dumping them. Most Christians aren't bible thumpers. I think using that language would alienate most ofthe party.
> 
> Simply being against Tahoe and sexual abuse would be plenty.
Click to expand...


I just wanted to remark on one point you made.

Do you think that sexual abuse might be the reason that some people are gay?  Certainly I would think it could be the reason some people become sexual abusers themselves, or perhaps develop certain sexual tendencies or quirks.  It might make someone avoid sexuality entirely.  Why not lead someone to be gay, particularly if they tended towards bisexuality to begin with?

Perhaps it would be better to say it could be a factor for some people, rather than the sole cause.  

My point is that I find it more likely that sexuality runs on a scale rather than being an either/or proposition.  Because of that, and because various factors can cause people's sexual tastes to change with time, I don't see any reason that change can't be to homosexuality if one has lived as a heterosexual, or to heterosexuality if one has lived as a homosexual.  It may be rare, but it sounds completely plausible to me that sexual abuse might cause a shift in a person's sexual tastes or tendencies.

I understand that it might seem damaging to link abuse to homosexuality.  I don't want to imply that all or even most homosexuals are homosexual because of abuse, nor am I saying that it's a one way street; there's no reason abuse could not effect someone so that they grow to be heterosexual.  Again, as I tend to look at sexuality as more of a sliding scale than an either/or, it might be more accurate to say that abuse might push someone in either direction on that scale.

Anyway, I just wonder why you and others sometimes seem adamant that sexual abuse could not change someone's sexual inclinations.


----------



## Inevitable

Montrovant said:


> I just wanted to remark on one point you made.
> 
> Do you think that sexual abuse might be the reason that some people are gay?  Certainly I would think it could be the reason some people become sexual abusers themselves, or perhaps develop certain sexual tendencies or quirks.  It might make someone avoid sexuality entirely.  Why not lead someone to be gay, particularly if they tended towards bisexuality to begin with?


No, I don't think that abuse is a very large factor in sexual orientation



> Perhaps it would be better to say it could be a factor for some people, rather than the sole cause.


All evidence is to the contrary 



> My point is that I find it more likely that sexuality runs on a scale rather than being an either/or proposition.  Because of that, and because various factors can cause people's sexual tastes to change with time, I don't see any reason that change can't be to homosexuality if one has lived as a heterosexual, or to heterosexuality if one has lived as a homosexual.  It may be rare, but it sounds completely plausible to me that sexual abuse might cause a shift in a person's sexual tastes or tendencies.


Tastes and tendencies aren't really related to sexual orientation. I agree that it isn't a black and white thing but I don't think it is as fickle as taste.



> I understand that it might seem damaging to link abuse to homosexuality.  I don't want to imply that all or even most homosexuals are homosexual because of abuse, nor am I saying that it's a one way street; there's no reason abuse could not effect someone so that they grow to be heterosexual.  Again, as I tend to look at sexuality as more of a sliding scale than an either/or, it might be more accurate to say that abuse might push someone in either direction on that scale.


All evidence points to orientation not being influenced by such things. I understand that you aren't really clear about orientation being that you keep mentioning tastes inclinations and tendencies.



> Anyway, I just wonder why you and others sometimes seem adamant that sexual abuse could not change someone's sexual inclinations.


I think you are confused I never once mentioned that abuse couldn't alter somebody's sexual inclinations.

I don't think sexual orientation is a proclivity, inclination, tendency, or a taste.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Greenbean Snow complains that his opinion is not taken as fact.

A person is not necessarily worthless, but using that type of approach in the first line above is worthless.

Not one of you hetero-fascists have demonstrated in any way, shape, or form that marriage equality has harmed him or hers civil or personal liberties.

Guys, you are going to get that kicked up your hypothetical asses every time.

If you can't logically answer that question now, the millenials will probably take your voting rights based on stupidity: the ability but refusal to learn.


----------



## Inevitable

JakeStarkey said:


> Greenbean Snow complains that his opinion is not taken as fact.
> 
> A person is not necessarily worthless, but using that type of approach in the first line above is worthless.
> 
> Not one of you hetero-fascists have demonstrated in any way, shape, or form that marriage equality has harmed him or hers civil or personal liberties.
> 
> Guys, you are going to get that kicked up your hypothetical asses every time.
> 
> If you can't logically answer that question now, the millenials will probably take your voting rights based on stupidity: the ability but refusal to learn.


They will just put you on ignore. Greenbean ran away from logic.
That must mean hefe doesn't have any and he has to protect his opinion from it.

Emily just rants incessantly about irrelevant stuff.


----------



## rdean

healthmyths said:


> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.



How long did it take you to find out it could be "learned"?  Did you have to "practice"?


----------



## GreenBean

emilynghiem said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where was I hammerred Jack Ass ?     Not in the realm of reality or factual evidence - drive by comments prove nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [MENTION=46353]GreenBean[/MENTION] I think you do enough to sabotage your own arguments
> I don't think you need anyone's help with that
> 
> Arguing over  "which sources are valid or invalid"
> "Which people are worthless or jackasses"
> 
> These are all BESIDES the point, those are distracting from content, and you will lose.
> People will stick to their beliefs, you cannot win this way.
> 
> To change minds on something THIS profound, people need to see DIRECT PROOF.
> If you can talk about how YOU changed and became a different person,
> and how the SAME process CHANGED someone else regarding orientation.
> 
> Then if they see that case is valid, you might change minds or open them up to the POSSIBILITY.
> But most people still need proof, or it doesn't make sense and isn't real to them.
> 
> With Scott Peck, who did not believe the process of deliverance was real,
> it took witnessing the process applied to two Schizophrenic patients otherwise deemed incureable and beyond treatment.
> 
> He did NOT change his mind just because his friend argued "which source" was valid or not.
> 
> Peck had to SEE IT FOR HIMSELF. He changed his mind, but it took him 10 years to explain the observation in writing, because the changes were so profound.
> 
> It's going to take medical research, replicated consistently, to show the difference
> between the ABUSIVE FRAUDULENT malpractice that people are protesting for banning,
> versus the natural healing and recovery process that is consistent with medical therapy.
> 
> You are not going to change minds by insulting or attacking anyone, which makes you look
> like a "jackass" if that's all you have to argue with!
> 
> Now Greenbean, do you have other medical research or sources to add?
> Some resources I recommend for formal medical research to replicate studies are here:
> freespiritualhealing | Resources for Healing and Forgiveness Therapy
> 
> If you have more references to ACTUAL cases, people or practices that are successful,
> free, effective and without any issues of fraud/complaints/malpractice, please post those!
> Thanks, Greenbean
Click to expand...


Hi Emily, my apologies for the delay in responding - long hours and so forth. 

I believe we've had this conversation in the past - or one very similar to it - it basically boils down to methodology.  You are kind and caring person , I don't believe you are even capable of utterring an unkind word and I respect you for that .

I'm a mean green ornery S.O.B., at least thats the role I play on these forums . I don't expect any of these demented dysphoric individuals to concede so much as an inch in any of the rabid discussions we engage in - I expect them to depsise me - cause I'm the guy thats twisting the knife and rubbing salt in their wounds.  However - despite their intense dislike for me I feel that I am planting some seeds within their thought process .  Some of the tactics I use are based on neuro-linguistics ,  some are basic concepts repeated continuoslly untill it sinks in, if not on the consious, then on the uncons. level .  Over the long term - it's  a seed that is sewn and takes time to grow.



> Now Greenbean, do you have other medical research or sources to add?
> Some resources I recommend for formal medical research to replicate studies are here:
> freespiritualhealing | Resources for Healing and Forgiveness Therapy



I don't subscribe to the "spiritual healing" scenario.  Although , I'm sure it has it merits and success stories .  I spent many years working in the mental hygene field - I prospered - it treated  me well, and I sadly left it for greener pastures of Entrepeneurship, which has also been kind to me .  

Many of  the people I used to work with early in my career were homosexuals - many of them are dead now- many of those that are dead could have lead decent respectable healthy lives had it not been for Liberal Jack Asses who told them it was okay to gay,  it was something to be proud of ,  if it feels good do it . .....  well it didn't feel too good with those purple lessions eating their flesh,  gasping for every breath like someone who smoked a carton a day ....  then there was the guy who blew his brains out in the parking lot - tested HIV pos. because he experimented with Gay sodomy- infected his wife - don't know what happenned with her , lost contact ...  long time now. 

Anyway -   *Gay is Not Okay !  *


----------



## GreenBean

Inevitable said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Greenbean Snow complains that his opinion is not taken as fact.
> 
> A person is not necessarily worthless, but using that type of approach in the first line above is worthless.
> 
> Not one of you hetero-fascists have demonstrated in any way, shape, or form that marriage equality has harmed him or hers civil or personal liberties.
> 
> Guys, you are going to get that kicked up your hypothetical asses every time.
> 
> If you can't logically answer that question now, the millenials will probably take your voting rights based on stupidity: the ability but refusal to learn.
> 
> 
> 
> They will just put you on ignore. Greenbean ran away from logic.
> That must mean hefe doesn't have any and he has to protect his opinion from it.
> 
> Emily just rants incessantly about irrelevant stuff.
Click to expand...


So - what logic did you present other than your opinions, and they were just that opinions.

What facts did you post ?
What scholars did you quote ?
What Studies did you cite ?  

*Nothing nada zilch and zero added together still equals nothing *

When and if you can present some evidence , any evidence beyond your convoluted fuzzy opinions, and have something intelligent to add - perhaps I'll give you the distinguished honor of my attention again by responding .  In the interim Fuck Off.


----------



## hazlnut

healthmyths said:


> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.




Same reason you'd be afraid of straight to gay conversion... or maybe not.


----------



## JakeStarkey

> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Greenbean Snow complains that his opinion is not taken as fact.
> 
> A person is not necessarily worthless, but using that type of approach in the first line above is worthless.
> 
> Not one of you hetero-fascists have demonstrated in any way, shape, or form that marriage equality has harmed him or hers civil or personal liberties.
> 
> Guys, you are going to get that kicked up your hypothetical asses every time.
> 
> If you can't logically answer that question now, the millenials will probably take your voting rights based on stupidity: the ability but refusal to learn.
> 
> 
> 
> They will just put you on ignore. Greenbean ran away from logic.
> That must mean hefe doesn't have any and he has to protect his opinion from it.
> 
> Emily just rants incessantly about irrelevant stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So - what logic did you present other than your opinions, and they were just that opinions.  What facts did you post ?  What scholars did you quote ?  What Studies did you cite ?
Click to expand...


Far right social con TPdroid drones, the APA has done that, many and many studies etc have been posted here, and all you do is give us fuzzy comments, demonstrating you have fogged and brainwashed opinions.

So, you losers don't get "just once more."

SCOTUS is going to ram it up your asses (that's funny)and tell you, "Fuck off, losers."

Tis what tis.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Sadness rests in the hearts of true Christians for those hetero-fascists of the droid far right who simply cannot follow the Two Great Commandments.

Truly sad.


----------



## Noomi

Conversion therapy does not work as a person cannot change their sexual orientation.


----------



## Inevitable

GreenBean said:


> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Greenbean Snow complains that his opinion is not taken as fact.
> 
> A person is not necessarily worthless, but using that type of approach in the first line above is worthless.
> 
> Not one of you hetero-fascists have demonstrated in any way, shape, or form that marriage equality has harmed him or hers civil or personal liberties.
> 
> Guys, you are going to get that kicked up your hypothetical asses every time.
> 
> If you can't logically answer that question now, the millenials will probably take your voting rights based on stupidity: the ability but refusal to learn.
> 
> 
> 
> They will just put you on ignore. Greenbean ran away from logic.
> That must mean hefe doesn't have any and he has to protect his opinion from it.
> 
> Emily just rants incessantly about irrelevant stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So - what logic did you present other than your opinions, and they were just that opinions.
Click to expand...

I didn't insist that there was a conspiracy of gay people to control information. 



> What facts did you post ?


The fact that your conspiracy is a delusion


> What scholars did you quote ?


Don't really need a scholar to debunk your conspiracy there isn't any facts that you presented, just paranoid garbage. 


> What Studies did you cite ?


Studies? That prove the APA isn't controled by a secret conspiracy of gay people to um... You were never clear on their super villain plot. I don't think studies exist to debunk your delusions.



> *Nothing nada zilch and zero added together still equals nothing *


Yep so your paranoid delusions and make believe conspiracy theories thatyour entire argument hinges on is not really valid. 



> When and if you can present some evidence , any evidence beyond your convoluted fuzzy opinions, and have something intelligent to add - perhaps I'll give you the distinguished honor of my attention again by responding.  In the interim Fuck Off.


You ignored me because you are a pouty little child. Go on stock yourfingers inyour ears and scream conspiracy. You may want to fashion a tinfoil hat while you are at it.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Howey makes Greenbean look like a pouty screaming little child at the store, not getting a candy.  

Disgusting.  The courts state and federal are saying your side is wrong.

Tuff that.


----------



## Inevitable

GreenBean said:


> *GreenBean* I presented factual evidence
> 
> *HOWEY:*  lol...no you didn't. You presented the insane ramblings of an insane kook who's been discredited by the profession. Why has he claimed to have converted thousands of gays and has yet to name one name?
> 
> This guy has about as much credibility as Marcus "Sugar Daddy" Bachmann or your tiny dick.
> 
> *GreenBean*
> So you feel Dr Cummings was a "Kook" when he authored and supported the motion to remove Homosexuality from the DSM - effectively delisting it as a Mental Illness ??  Hmmm - intersting point and not without validity - I hoave to agree that was a assinine move -  so whatelse do you feelDr.Cummings has done that would classify him as a kook- other than to disagree with your wholly unqualified Opinion ?
> 
> And while you're at it what about *Dr. Rogers Wright*  former member of APA's Board of Directors, who stated that "psychology has been ultra-libera...and beholden to the Gay Rights movement" Wright described the difficulties he has encountered with the American Psychological Association -
> 
> Or * Dr. A. Dean Byrd* another former APA officer who has bailed out of theorganization - because it has lost all crredibility
> 
> Or *Dr. Frank Farley* who stated that "...APA should give the widest possible hearing to Dr. Cummings' concern about APA's preoccupation with political correctness, and should instead focus efforts on the decline in psychological practice."
> 
> Or *Dr. Jeffrey Satinover, M.D*. In his talk entitled "Judicial Abuse of Scientific Literature on Homosexuality by the American Mental Health Professional Organizations," he offered a tediously referenced description of ethics and morals breeches in recent legal cases that have led to landmark changes in family-law policy.
> 
> Or *Dr. Richard Fitzgibbons* who has stated said that "the American Psychiatric Association (APA) has continuously ignored evidence that homosexuality is a manifestation of a psychiatric disorder."
> 
> Or *Dr. Apu Chakraborty* who has been blasted by the Gay Mafia for producing findings that were heresy to their ears and eyes  - he prooved that  the rates of mental disorder among gays were significantly higher,nay ridiculously higher than sane people.  Rates of depression, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, phobia, self-harm, suicidal thoughts, substance abuse , alcohol dependence. ......
> 
> *I guess they were all quacks Right ?*  And of course you are much more qualified to judge the issues because you're a cock sucker - I'd call you a dirty cock sucker- but I have no proof of that and couldn't really give a flying fuck either -  Oh and  FYI -if you truly are a dirty cock sucker watch out for shigelosis - you don know what shigelosis is don't you?  It's an extremely common disease among faggots - it comes from eating their partners feces


For somebody who is so completely biased against homosexuals enough to call people you believe to have a mental disorder things like faggot, you most certainly area quack. Everything you view is through the prism of your own bias.

Nothing you say can be credible. 

I guess I should thank you for being such a hateful biased moron, you aredoing far more damage to your argument than to anybody else's.

Please keep talking. Tell me what other diseases faggots contract. And link more tinfoil hat websites like loony bird and narth.


----------



## Inevitable

JakeStarkey said:


> Howey makes Greenbean look like a pouty screaming little child at the store, not getting a candy.
> 
> Disgusting.  The courts state and federal are saying your side is wrong.
> 
> Tuff that.


I am beginning to think greenbean is homosexual but he hates that about himself and he absolutely has to believe that treatments work and that the APA is wrong.

The pathology is the fabrication of some global conspiracy that has taken over the APA and of course this conspiracy has entered into the schools to wipe out heterosexuality sothat the only thing right is homosexuality thus making his worst fears a reality.  This is a narcissistic paranoid delusion. The poor guy needs help.


----------



## JakeStarkey

shigellosis - definition of shigellosis in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

_Description  Shigellosis is a well-known cause of traveler's diarrhea and illness throughout the world. Shigella are extremely infectious bacteria, and ingestion of just 10 organisms is enough to cause severe diarrhea and dehydration. Shigella accounts for 10-20% of all cases of diarrhea worldwide, and in any given year infects over 140 million persons and kills 600,000, mostly children and the elderly. The most serious form of the disease is called dysentery, which is characterized by severe watery (and often blood- and mucous-streaked) diarrhea, abdominal cramping, rectal pain, and fever. Shigella is only one of several organisms that can cause dysentery, but the term bacillary dysentery is usually another name for shigellosis.

Most deaths are in less-developed or developing countries, but even in the United States, shigellosis can be a dangerous and potentially deadly disease. Poor hygiene, overcrowding, and improper storage of food are leading causes of infection. The following statistics show the marked difference in the frequency of cases between developed and less-developed countries; in the United States, about 30,000 individuals are hit by the disease each year or about 10 cases/100,000 population. On the other hand, infection in some areas of South America is 1,000 times more frequent. Shigellosis is most common in children below age five, and occurs less often in adults over 20.

Shigella infection spreads through food or water contaminated by human waste. Sources of transmission are:

&#8226;contaminated milk, ice cream, vegetables and other foods which often cause epidemics
&#8226;household contacts (40% of adults and 20% of children will develop infection from such a source)
&#8226;poor hygiene and overcrowded living conditions
&#8226;day care centers
&#8226;sexual practices which lead to oral-anal contact, directly or indirectly_

Nothing about homosexuals, but I imagine the last cause is overwhelmingly heterosexual.


----------



## guno

healthmyths said:


> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.



How about electro shock therapy for the bible banging christers, and it may be coming sooner then you think!!


----------



## HUGGY

shart_attack said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shart_attack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every (supposedly) "gay" man I've ever met has said he gets aroused watching heterosexual porn.
> 
> That tells me all I need to know about their supposedly genetic predisposition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No gay man has told you any such thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, they have.
Click to expand...


Why do you need to discuss sexual arousal with gay men ?


----------



## Inevitable

HUGGY said:


> shart_attack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> No gay man has told you any such thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, they have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you need to discuss sexual arousal with gay men ?
Click to expand...

I am homosexual and I have been aroused by heterosexual pornography there are normally guys in it and more often than not they are sexy.

What shart attack says doesn't surprise me.


----------



## Noomi

Gay men can get aroused watching straight porn the same as straight men can become aroused watching gay porn. Doesn't mean anything.


----------



## HUGGY

Inevitable said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shart_attack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, they have.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you need to discuss sexual arousal with gay men ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am homosexual and I have been aroused by heterosexual pornography there are normally guys in it and more often than not they are sexy.
> 
> What shart attack says doesn't surprise me.
Click to expand...


Some people make light of subjects they don't understand.


----------



## Inevitable

Noomi said:


> Gay men can get aroused watching straight porn the same as straight men can become aroused watching gay porn. Doesn't mean anything.



well porn involving 2 male actors performing homosexual acts on one another represents 25% of the market.

Like I said gay men may find the men in heterosexual porn attractive.


----------



## rdean

rdean said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How long did it take you to find out it could be "learned"?  Did you have to "practice"?
Click to expand...


Seems like a pretty simple and "straight" forward question.


----------



## GreenBean

Inevitable said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> They will just put you on ignore. Greenbean ran away from logic.
> That must mean hefe doesn't have any and he has to protect his opinion from it.
> 
> Emily just rants incessantly about irrelevant stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So - what logic did you present other than your opinions, and they were just that opinions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't insist that there was a conspiracy of gay people to control information.
> 
> The fact that your conspiracy is a delusion
> Don't really need a scholar to debunk your conspiracy there isn't any facts that you presented, just paranoid garbage.
> Studies? That prove the APA isn't controled by a secret conspiracy of gay people to um... You were never clear on their super villain plot. I don't think studies exist to debunk your delusions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Nothing nada zilch and zero added together still equals nothing *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep so your paranoid delusions and make believe conspiracy theories thatyour entire argument hinges on is not really valid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When and if you can present some evidence , any evidence beyond your convoluted fuzzy opinions, and have something intelligent to add - perhaps I'll give you the distinguished honor of my attention again by responding.  In the interim Fuck Off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You ignored me because you are a pouty little child. Go on stock yourfingers inyour ears and scream conspiracy. You may want to fashion a tinfoil hat while you are at it.
Click to expand...


I've temporarily unblocked you , so let's see if have some useful informationm to contribute....



> *Inevitable :  *I didn't insist that there was a conspiracy of gay people to control information.
> 
> *GreenBean :*  True , you insisted there wasn't - *but refused to present any evidence to back up your  opinion* - you failed


--------



> *GreenBean :* What scholars did you quote ?
> 
> *Inevitable :  * Don't really need a scholar to debunk your conspiracy there isn't any facts that you presented, just paranoid garbage.
> 
> *GreenBean :*  Translated  - you can't find  any evience to proove my argument incorrect  or yours correct.  *you refused to present any evidence to back up your  opinion* - you failed





> *GreenBean :* What Studies did you cite ?
> 
> *Inevitable :  * Studies? That prove the APA isn't controled by a secret conspiracy of gay people to um... You were never clear on their super villain plot. I don't think studies exist to debunk your delusions.
> 
> *GreenBean :* That was a portion of the Topic - in general the topic was the psychosis of homosexuality, it's dysphoric nature and how it is shielded by the APA -, now there are plenty of bogus pseudo-scientific studies , as well as a handful of credible ones that would tend to validate some of your opinions -but I forewarn you - I am familiar with almost anything you might come across -so be certain to dot your I and cross your T.  And if you're very good at prooving your point you might even stump  me - you may found this hard to believe - but I am only HUman and sometimes am wrong - very rarely , but sometimes.





> *GreenBean :* *Nothing nada zilch and zero added together still equals nothing*
> 
> *Inevitable :  * Yep so your paranoid delusions and make believe conspiracy theories thatyour entire argument hinges on is not really valid.
> 
> *GreenBean :* *you refused to present any evidence to back up your  opinion* - *you* failed





> *GreenBean :*When and if you can present some evidence , any evidence beyond your convoluted fuzzy opinions, and have something intelligent to add - perhaps I'll give you the distinguished honor of my attention again by responding. In the interim Fuck Off.
> 
> *Inevitable :  * You ignored me because you are a pouty little child. Go on stock yourfingers inyour ears and scream conspiracy. You may want to fashion a tinfoil hat while you are at it.
> 
> *GreenBean :*  I ignored you because you prooved yourself to be of no value , worthless and pointless - *everybody has opinions* and differring opinions at that - on a public debate  the idea is to give you an opportunity to present your opinions and evidence to back them up - you simply continue to spout your unsupported immature opinions - which mean nothing and prove nothing .  Grow and put up - or shut up .





> *GreenBean :*  I presented factual evidence
> 
> *HOWEY:* Why has he claimed to have converted thousands of gays and has yet to name one name?
> 
> *NOW >**GreenBean :* It has to do with client confidententiality and professional obligations to honor their wishes .  There have been ex-gays who have come forward with their stories and *all have hounded and harassed by the gaggles of gaydom. *  If you anything - I mean anything at all about the Medical or Mental Health field - you owuld know that he can't divulge their information - it's immoral, unethical , unprofessional and in many cases illegal - even were he ordered to divulge such information by a court of law - he would still have the right to invoke "client - counselor" privileges.   PS: I hope you don't mind me adressing your posts as Howey and Inevitable on he same quote box - just saving time .
> 
> *HOWEY:*  lol...no you didn't. You presented the insane ramblings of an insane kook who's been discredited by the profession.
> 
> *Now>**GreenBean :*  I noticed you and your alter ego conveniently ignored the post below - so I reposted it.
> 
> *Yesterday >**GreenBean :*
> 
> *So you feel Dr Cummings was a "Kook" when he authored and supported the motion to remove Homosexuality from the DSM - effectively delisting it as a Mental Illness ?? Hmmm - intersting point and not without validity - I hoave to agree that was a assinine move - so whatelse do you feelDr.Cummings has done that would classify him as a kook- other than to disagree with your wholly unqualified Opinion ?*
> 
> And while you're at it what about Dr. Rogers Wright former member of APA's Board of Directors, who stated that "psychology has been ultra-libera...and beholden to the Gay Rights movement" Wright described the difficulties he has encountered with the American Psychological Association -
> 
> Or *Dr. A. Dean Byrd* another former APA officer who has bailed out of theorganization - because it has lost all crredibility
> 
> Or Dr. Frank Farley who stated that "...APA should give the widest possible hearing to Dr. Cummings' concern about APA's preoccupation with political correctness, and should instead focus efforts on the decline in psychological practice."
> 
> Or *Dr. Jeffrey Satinover, M.D.* In his talk entitled "Judicial Abuse of Scientific Literature on Homosexuality by the American Mental Health Professional Organizations," he offered a tediously referenced description of ethics and morals breeches in recent legal cases that have led to landmark changes in family-law policy.
> 
> Or *Dr. Richard Fitzgibbons* who has stated said that "the American Psychiatric Association (APA) has continuously ignored evidence that homosexuality is a manifestation of a psychiatric disorder."
> 
> Or *Dr. Apu Chakraborty *who has been blasted by the Gay Mafia for producing findings that were heresy to their ears and eyes - he prooved that the rates of mental disorder among gays were significantly higher,nay ridiculously higher than sane people. Rates of depression, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, phobia, self-harm, suicidal thoughts, substance abuse , alcohol dependence. ......
> 
> *I guess they were all quacks Right ?* And of course you are much more qualified to judge the issues because you're a cock sucker - I'd call you a dirty cock sucker- but I have no proof of that and couldn't really give a flying fuck either - Oh and FYI -if you truly are a dirty cock sucker watch out for shigelosis - you don know what shigelosis is don't you? It's an extremely common disease among faggots - it comes from eating their partners feces [ when you suck off their dirty cocks ]


----------



## Howey

Noomi said:


> Gay men can get aroused watching straight porn the same as straight men can become aroused watching gay porn. Doesn't mean anything.



I was about to agree....but.

As a gay man who's seen straight porn, there's enough penis in it to keep one, ummm....going.

Gay porn has nothing to offer the straight man except penis after penis after penis. If he becomes aroused, there's only one answer.


----------



## Inevitable

GreenBean said:


> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> So - what logic did you present other than your opinions, and they were just that opinions.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't insist that there was a conspiracy of gay people to control information.
> 
> The fact that your conspiracy is a delusion
> Don't really need a scholar to debunk your conspiracy there isn't any facts that you presented, just paranoid garbage.
> Studies? That prove the APA isn't controled by a secret conspiracy of gay people to um... You were never clear on their super villain plot. I don't think studies exist to debunk your delusions.
> 
> Yep so your paranoid delusions and make believe conspiracy theories thatyour entire argument hinges on is not really valid.
> 
> 
> You ignored me because you are a pouty little child. Go on stock yourfingers inyour ears and scream conspiracy. You may want to fashion a tinfoil hat while you are at it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've temporarily unblocked you , so let's see if have some useful informationm to contribute....
> 
> 
> --------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GreenBean :*When and if you can present some evidence , any evidence beyond your convoluted fuzzy opinions, and have something intelligent to add - perhaps I'll give you the distinguished honor of my attention again by responding. In the interim Fuck Off.
> 
> *Inevitable :  * You ignored me because you are a pouty little child. Go on stock yourfingers inyour ears and scream conspiracy. You may want to fashion a tinfoil hat while you are at it.
> 
> *GreenBean :*  I ignored you because you prooved yourself to be of no value , worthless and pointless - *everybody has opinions* and differring opinions at that - on a public debate  the idea is to give you an opportunity to present your opinions and evidence to back them up - you simply continue to spout your unsupported immature opinions - which mean nothing and prove nothing .  Grow and put up - or shut up .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GreenBean :*  I presented factual evidence
> 
> *HOWEY:* Why has he claimed to have converted thousands of gays and has yet to name one name?
> 
> *NOW >**GreenBean :* It has to do with client confidententiality and professional obligations to honor their wishes .  There have been ex-gays who have come forward with their stories and *all have hounded and harassed by the gaggles of gaydom. *  If you anything - I mean anything at all about the Medical or Mental Health field - you owuld know that he can't divulge their information - it's immoral, unethical , unprofessional and in many cases illegal - even were he ordered to divulge such information by a court of law - he would still have the right to invoke "client - counselor" privileges.   PS: I hope you don't mind me adressing your posts as Howey and Inevitable on he same quote box - just saving time .
> 
> *HOWEY:*  lol...no you didn't. You presented the insane ramblings of an insane kook who's been discredited by the profession.
> 
> *Now>**GreenBean :*  I noticed you and your alter ego conveniently ignored the post below - so I reposted it.
> 
> *Yesterday >**GreenBean :*
> 
> *So you feel Dr Cummings was a "Kook" when he authored and supported the motion to remove Homosexuality from the DSM - effectively delisting it as a Mental Illness ?? Hmmm - intersting point and not without validity - I hoave to agree that was a assinine move - so whatelse do you feelDr.Cummings has done that would classify him as a kook- other than to disagree with your wholly unqualified Opinion ?*
> 
> And while you're at it what about Dr. Rogers Wright former member of APA's Board of Directors, who stated that "psychology has been ultra-libera...and beholden to the Gay Rights movement" Wright described the difficulties he has encountered with the American Psychological Association -
> 
> Or *Dr. A. Dean Byrd* another former APA officer who has bailed out of theorganization - because it has lost all crredibility
> 
> Or Dr. Frank Farley who stated that "...APA should give the widest possible hearing to Dr. Cummings' concern about APA's preoccupation with political correctness, and should instead focus efforts on the decline in psychological practice."
> 
> Or *Dr. Jeffrey Satinover, M.D.* In his talk entitled "Judicial Abuse of Scientific Literature on Homosexuality by the American Mental Health Professional Organizations," he offered a tediously referenced description of ethics and morals breeches in recent legal cases that have led to landmark changes in family-law policy.
> 
> Or *Dr. Richard Fitzgibbons* who has stated said that "the American Psychiatric Association (APA) has continuously ignored evidence that homosexuality is a manifestation of a psychiatric disorder."
> 
> Or *Dr. Apu Chakraborty *who has been blasted by the Gay Mafia for producing findings that were heresy to their ears and eyes - he prooved that the rates of mental disorder among gays were significantly higher,nay ridiculously higher than sane people. Rates of depression, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, phobia, self-harm, suicidal thoughts, substance abuse , alcohol dependence. ......
> 
> *I guess they were all quacks Right ?* And of course you are much more qualified to judge the issues because you're a cock sucker - I'd call you a dirty cock sucker- but I have no proof of that and couldn't really give a flying fuck either - Oh and FYI -if you truly are a dirty cock sucker watch out for shigelosis - you don know what shigelosis is don't you? It's an extremely common disease among faggots - it comes from eating their partners feces [ when you suck off their dirty cocks ]
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

only thing I really have to say to you green bean is that I need proof that theAPA was taken or by homos


----------



## MaryL

First things first, I resent  how homosexuals hijacked the word "GAY". Second of all, a loose affiliation of  wealthy people that identify with  a broken narcissistic sexual preference, is not a class of people that needs  civil rights or protection other than those already offered to  the mentally ill. On closer inspection, why are homosexuals so brazen as to demand "rights" one way or the other? We ALL have the same rights, but that isn't enough for the "GAYS"? Please, it is, and they just need to get help for that broken sexuality  of theirs. Not demand rights, acceptance or anything else.


----------



## GreenBean

Inevitable said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't insist that there was a conspiracy of gay people to control information.
> 
> The fact that your conspiracy is a delusion
> Don't really need a scholar to debunk your conspiracy there isn't any facts that you presented, just paranoid garbage.
> Studies? That prove the APA isn't controled by a secret conspiracy of gay people to um... You were never clear on their super villain plot. I don't think studies exist to debunk your delusions.
> 
> Yep so your paranoid delusions and make believe conspiracy theories thatyour entire argument hinges on is not really valid.
> 
> 
> You ignored me because you are a pouty little child. Go on stock yourfingers inyour ears and scream conspiracy. You may want to fashion a tinfoil hat while you are at it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've temporarily unblocked you , so let's see if have some useful informationm to contribute....
> 
> 
> --------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GreenBean :*  I presented factual evidence
> 
> *HOWEY:* Why has he claimed to have converted thousands of gays and has yet to name one name?
> 
> *NOW >**GreenBean :* It has to do with client confidententiality and professional obligations to honor their wishes .  There have been ex-gays who have come forward with their stories and *all have hounded and harassed by the gaggles of gaydom. *  If you anything - I mean anything at all about the Medical or Mental Health field - you owuld know that he can't divulge their information - it's immoral, unethical , unprofessional and in many cases illegal - even were he ordered to divulge such information by a court of law - he would still have the right to invoke "client - counselor" privileges.   PS: I hope you don't mind me adressing your posts as Howey and Inevitable on he same quote box - just saving time .
> 
> *HOWEY:*  lol...no you didn't. You presented the insane ramblings of an insane kook who's been discredited by the profession.
> 
> *Now>**GreenBean :*  I noticed you and your alter ego conveniently ignored the post below - so I reposted it.
> 
> *Yesterday >**GreenBean :*
> 
> *So you feel Dr Cummings was a "Kook" when he authored and supported the motion to remove Homosexuality from the DSM - effectively delisting it as a Mental Illness ?? Hmmm - intersting point and not without validity - I hoave to agree that was a assinine move - so whatelse do you feelDr.Cummings has done that would classify him as a kook- other than to disagree with your wholly unqualified Opinion ?*
> 
> And while you're at it what about Dr. Rogers Wright former member of APA's Board of Directors, who stated that "psychology has been ultra-libera...and beholden to the Gay Rights movement" Wright described the difficulties he has encountered with the American Psychological Association -
> 
> Or *Dr. A. Dean Byrd* another former APA officer who has bailed out of theorganization - because it has lost all crredibility
> 
> Or Dr. Frank Farley who stated that "...APA should give the widest possible hearing to Dr. Cummings' concern about APA's preoccupation with political correctness, and should instead focus efforts on the decline in psychological practice."
> 
> Or *Dr. Jeffrey Satinover, M.D.* In his talk entitled "Judicial Abuse of Scientific Literature on Homosexuality by the American Mental Health Professional Organizations," he offered a tediously referenced description of ethics and morals breeches in recent legal cases that have led to landmark changes in family-law policy.
> 
> Or *Dr. Richard Fitzgibbons* who has stated said that "the American Psychiatric Association (APA) has continuously ignored evidence that homosexuality is a manifestation of a psychiatric disorder."
> 
> Or *Dr. Apu Chakraborty *who has been blasted by the Gay Mafia for producing findings that were heresy to their ears and eyes - he prooved that the rates of mental disorder among gays were significantly higher,nay ridiculously higher than sane people. Rates of depression, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, phobia, self-harm, suicidal thoughts, substance abuse , alcohol dependence. ......
> 
> *I guess they were all quacks Right ?* And of course you are much more qualified to judge the issues because you're a cock sucker - I'd call you a dirty cock sucker- but I have no proof of that and couldn't really give a flying fuck either - Oh and FYI -if you truly are a dirty cock sucker watch out for shigelosis - you don know what shigelosis is don't you? It's an extremely common disease among faggots - it comes from eating their partners feces [ when you suck off their dirty cocks ]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> only thing I really have to say to you green bean is that I need proof that theAPA was taken or by homos
Click to expand...


You are a sad little person, not only are you a degenerate , but you're a low IQ, poorly informed, uneducated and ignorant one-

My points stand unrefuted,  you are a loser in life and probably always will be  - die young and do the world a favor - Regards and best wishes.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Greenbean needs to keep seeing his lie about shigella.

He has not responded to it yet, because he can't.

_shigellosis - definition of shigellosis in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Description Shigellosis is a well-known cause of traveler's diarrhea and illness throughout the world. Shigella are extremely infectious bacteria, and ingestion of just 10 organisms is enough to cause severe diarrhea and dehydration. Shigella accounts for 10-20% of all cases of diarrhea worldwide, and in any given year infects over 140 million persons and kills 600,000, mostly children and the elderly. The most serious form of the disease is called dysentery, which is characterized by severe watery (and often blood- and mucous-streaked) diarrhea, abdominal cramping, rectal pain, and fever. Shigella is only one of several organisms that can cause dysentery, but the term bacillary dysentery is usually another name for shigellosis.

Most deaths are in less-developed or developing countries, but even in the United States, shigellosis can be a dangerous and potentially deadly disease. Poor hygiene, overcrowding, and improper storage of food are leading causes of infection. The following statistics show the marked difference in the frequency of cases between developed and less-developed countries; in the United States, about 30,000 individuals are hit by the disease each year or about 10 cases/100,000 population. On the other hand, infection in some areas of South America is 1,000 times more frequent. Shigellosis is most common in children below age five, and occurs less often in adults over 20.

Shigella infection spreads through food or water contaminated by human waste. Sources of transmission are:

&#8226;contaminated milk, ice cream, vegetables and other foods which often cause epidemics
&#8226;household contacts (40% of adults and 20% of children will develop infection from such a source)
&#8226;poor hygiene and overcrowded living conditions
&#8226;day care centers
&#8226;sexual practices which lead to oral-anal contact, directly or indirectly

Nothing about homosexuals, but I imagine the last cause is overwhelmingly heterosexual. _


----------



## Inevitable

GreenBean said:


> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've temporarily unblocked you , so let's see if have some useful informationm to contribute....
> 
> 
> --------
> 
> 
> 
> only thing I really have to say to you green bean is that I need proof that theAPA was taken or by homos
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are a sad little person, not only are you a degenerate , but you're a low IQ, poorly informed, uneducated and ignorant one-
Click to expand...

I take that to mean you have no proof of the "homosexuals taking over the APA." And since your entire argument is based on discreditingthem you have utterly failed. 



> My points stand unrefuted,  you are a loser in life and probably always will be  - die young and do the world a favor - Regards and best wishes.


No your point is rubbish, it's a paranoid conspiracy theory.

That is likely why you have to lower yourself to calling me a "sad little person" and a "degenerate" with a "low IQ" that you ignorantly claim is "uninformed and uneducated." If you had an argument you wouldn't need to be reduced to slander and other such projections.

"When the argument is lost slander becomes the tool of the loser." - Socrates-

Basics, since all you can do is slander me, that must mean you lost the argument.


----------



## Inevitable

MaryL said:


> First things first, I resent  how homosexuals hijacked the word "GAY".


Tough cookies.



> Second of all, a loose affiliation of  wealthy people that identify with  a broken narcissistic sexual preference, is not a class of people that needs  civil rights or protection other than those already offered to  the mentally ill.


Homosexuality is neither"narcissistic sexual preference" or a mental illness. Sorry kiddo the research has been doneproving that to be the case.  



> On closer inspection, why are homosexuals so brazen as to demand "rights" one way or the other?


Because they are American citizens andit is their right guaranteed in the first amendment.  





> We ALL have the same rights, but that isn't enough for the "GAYS"? Please, it is, and they just need to get help for that broken sexuality  of theirs.


And if American people are allowed to marry the same gender, we would all still have equal rights, just more choice. What is broken about homosexuality? 





> Not demand rights, acceptance or anything else.


They can demand what ever they want.


----------



## Noomi

Why are straight men so concerned with what gay men do in the bedroom?


----------



## Inevitable

JakeStarkey said:


> Greenbean needs to keep seeing his lie about shigella.
> 
> He has not responded to it yet, because he can't.
> 
> _shigellosis - definition of shigellosis in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
> 
> Description Shigellosis is a well-known cause of traveler's diarrhea and illness throughout the world. Shigella are extremely infectious bacteria, and ingestion of just 10 organisms is enough to cause severe diarrhea and dehydration. Shigella accounts for 10-20% of all cases of diarrhea worldwide, and in any given year infects over 140 million persons and kills 600,000, mostly children and the elderly. The most serious form of the disease is called dysentery, which is characterized by severe watery (and often blood- and mucous-streaked) diarrhea, abdominal cramping, rectal pain, and fever. Shigella is only one of several organisms that can cause dysentery, but the term bacillary dysentery is usually another name for shigellosis.
> 
> Most deaths are in less-developed or developing countries, but even in the United States, shigellosis can be a dangerous and potentially deadly disease. Poor hygiene, overcrowding, and improper storage of food are leading causes of infection. The following statistics show the marked difference in the frequency of cases between developed and less-developed countries; in the United States, about 30,000 individuals are hit by the disease each year or about 10 cases/100,000 population. On the other hand, infection in some areas of South America is 1,000 times more frequent. Shigellosis is most common in children below age five, and occurs less often in adults over 20.
> 
> Shigella infection spreads through food or water contaminated by human waste. Sources of transmission are:
> 
> contaminated milk, ice cream, vegetables and other foods which often cause epidemics
> household contacts (40% of adults and 20% of children will develop infection from such a source)
> poor hygiene and overcrowded living conditions
> day care centers
> sexual practices which lead to oral-anal contact, directly or indirectly
> 
> Nothing about homosexuals, but I imagine the last cause is overwhelmingly heterosexual. _


his entire argument is based on discrediting the APA. He has used such ridiculous laughable sources as "loony bird" which is nothing more that a tinfoil hat wearer's blog, Narth, which seems completely biased against homosexuality for reasons they fail to articulate and a handful of other biased opinion blogs that either completely lack study or the authors have completely misrepresented the studies they reference.

There is no reason to believe the APA was taken over by something as ridiculous as the gay mafia. So until evidence is shown that they are corrupted by a criminal organization of gay people, don't hold your breath, there is no reason to doubt their findings. All the crap he posts about some disease that he claims is incredibly common yet no gay person I know has suffered with symptoms (likely because it is a fabrication) is just bologna propaganda he is getting from his silly blogs.

Don't bother with the disproving of his propaganda, focus on the lack of evidence he has to discredit the APA. Everything he says depends on that. He got his panties all in a bunch whenI held his feet to the fire on that, he posted fifteen different slandersbut not a solitary shred of evidence that the APA is not credible.

I think it's great when he slanders me, it proves he has no rational argument. He would argueinstead of slander.

Hammer him with the APA shtick. That seems to be his weak spot. I didn't expect to find it so quickly


----------



## Inevitable

Noomi said:


> Why are straight men so concerned with what gay men do in the bedroom?



They probably aren't straight.


----------



## Noomi

Inevitable said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why are straight men so concerned with what gay men do in the bedroom?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They probably aren't straight.
Click to expand...


Most of USMB must be gay then.


----------



## Montrovant

Inevitable said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why are straight men so concerned with what gay men do in the bedroom?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They probably aren't straight.
Click to expand...


Why do people so often respond to questions like that by assuming the people in question must not be straight?  People care about, discuss, argue about and insult things that they are not all the time.  

Sorry, not trying to single you out as this is a common response.  It just irks me, and reminds me too much of the thread I've been involved in for a while now claiming atheists who argue too strenuously with believers must secretly believe in god.

Straight men worrying about what consenting gay adults do in the bedroom may be asinine, but it's not indicative of being other than heterosexual.  Indicative of a lack of intelligence, perhaps.


----------



## Inevitable

Montrovant said:


> Why do people so often respond to questions like that by assuming the people in question must not be straight?  People care about, discuss, argue about and insult things that they are not all the time.


This was in specific reference to Some posters and I apologize for notmaking that clear. It isn't, that he disagrees with it or even insults it. It's deeper than that I will explain on the bottom of this post.



> Sorry, not trying to single you out as this is a common response.  It just irks me, and reminds me too much of the thread I've been involved in for a while now claiming atheists who argue too strenuously with believers must secretly believe in god.


I don't feel singled out, and furthermore I made a statement publicly, I will explain at the bottom. 



> Straight men worrying about what consenting gay adults do in the bedroom may be asinine, but it's not indicative of being other than heterosexual.  Indicative of a lack of intelligence, perhaps.


It's not the bedroom. It's the idea that men are gay. If you don't like what they do in their bedroom, don't watch them and don't join in. You don't even have to think about it. Why would any straight guy even think about it? Why aren't they thinking about Tits or women in general?

As promised above here is my explanation. Several members on this particular thread have repeated that homosexuality is a mental disorder, however, the APA says it isn't. They respond, "well the APA was taken over by gays." Okay, why was it added as a mental disorder in 1952? They respond either one of two ways. "........crickets......" Or "The homosexuals have removed all that data." Okay, than what is the pathology? Again the responses are the same as the previous question. Okay, what evidence do you have of this conspiracy of gays manipulating information? The response I have received from this question from two different posters was the same: "You are a stupid (explicit deleted) that doesn't know (explicit deleted) about (explicit deleted). You loser piece of (explicit deleted)...on and on and on."

Now I ask you, why would somebody need to fabricate a conspiracy and then attack me when I ask for proof of this? To believe that it is a mental disorder that can be treated? Why become so defensive when this position is challenged?

Many people that are homosexual, go through a period of time when they don't want to be homosexual, they are either in a religion, culture or society that looks down on it. And they want to believe there is a way not to be gay. If I am cutting one of those strings of hope with logic it's an assault on their beliefs they go on attack.

Now this board seems to be much less governed than other boards and there is a lot more license to really slander people. I have noticed people losing their patience. I argue with logic and not emotion. Now I may have minced a few less savory words on this board but it seems mild in comparison. That and people that make the same fallacy over and over frustrate me. But you should be able to defeat an argument without slander.

Basically some posters here protest way to much, they fabricate nonsense that people know and can verify isn't true. Who are they trying to convince? Gay people are reduced to a sexual act and only one sex. Forget that they enjoy other parts of a relationship, it's all about anal sex. This is a fixation first there are plenty of homosexual women, and straight people like to have anal sex as well. 

So I have listed delusions (gay conspiracy) I have listed emotional outbursts, and a laser beam fixation on the type of sex that people imagine gay people having, that is a pathology. It's clear that posters that exemplify these pathological behaviors are trying to convince themselves of something.


----------



## GreenBean

Inevitable said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> only thing I really have to say to you green bean is that I need proof that theAPA was taken or by homos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are a sad little person, not only are you a degenerate , but you're a low IQ, poorly informed, uneducated and ignorant one-
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I take that to mean you have no proof of the "homosexuals taking over the APA." And since your entire argument is based on discreditingthem you have utterly failed.
> 
> 
> 
> That is likely why you have to lower yourself to calling me a "sad little person" and a "degenerate" with a "low IQ" that you ignorantly claim is "uninformed and uneducated." If you had an argument you wouldn't need to be reduced to slander and other such projections.
> 
> "When the argument is lost slander becomes the tool of the loser." - Socrates-
> 
> Basics, since all you can do is slander me, that must mean you lost the argument.
Click to expand...



*GreenBean: *My points stand unrefuted,  you are a loser in life and probably always will be  - die young and do the world a favor - Regards and best wishes.

*Inevitable:* No your point is rubbish, it's a paranoid conspiracy theory.

*GreenBean: * In a conversation betweent Adults , which you apparently  are not - Opinions are supported by factual evidence - some of your opinions may be valid *-but-* you have yet to present a single fact to back up your opinions - so in effect you're a loser - 

.....

So you feel Dr Cummings was a "Kook" when* he authored and supported the motion to remove Homosexuality from the DSM *- effectively delisting it as a Mental Illness ?? Hmmm - intersting point and not without validity - I have to agree that was a assinine move - so *what else do you feel Dr.Cummings has done that would classify him as a kook*- other than to disagree with your wholly unqualified Opinion ?

And while you're at it what about *Dr. Rogers Wright* former member of APA's Board of Directors, who stated that "psychology has been ultra-libera...and beholden to the Gay Rights movement" Wright described the difficulties he has encountered with the American Psychological Association - 

Or* Dr. A. Dean Byrd *another former APA officer who has bailed out of theorganization - because it has lost all crredibility

Or *Dr. Frank Farley *who stated that "...APA should give the widest possible hearing to Dr. Cummings' concern about APA's preoccupation with political correctness, and should instead focus efforts on the decline in psychological practice."

Or *Dr. Jeffrey Satinover*, M.D. In his talk entitled "Judicial Abuse of Scientific Literature on Homosexuality by the American Mental Health Professional Organizations," he offered a tediously referenced description of ethics and morals breeches in recent legal cases that have led to landmark changes in family-law policy.

Or *Dr. Richard Fitzgibbons* who has stated said that "the American Psychiatric Association (APA) has continuously ignored evidence that homosexuality is a manifestation of a psychiatric disorder."

Or *Dr. Apu Chakraborty* who has been blasted by the Gay Mafia for producing findings that were heresy to their ears and eyes - he prooved that the rates of mental disorder among gays were significantly higher,nay ridiculously higher than sane people. Rates of depression, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, phobia, self-harm, suicidal thoughts, substance abuse , alcohol dependence. ......

*I guess they were all quacks Right ?* And of course you are much more qualified to judge the issues because you're a cock sucker - I'd call you a dirty cock sucker- but I have no proof of that and couldn't really give a flying fuck either - Oh and FYI -if you truly are a dirty cock sucker watch out for shigelosis - you don know what shigelosis is don't you? It's an extremely common disease among faggots - it comes from eating their partners feces [ when you suck off their dirty cocks ]


----------



## Stephanie

They  control freaks

one thread ask if homophobia can be cured and not a peep out of them

but talk about this therapy and they go nuts


----------



## Seawytch

Stephanie said:


> They  control freaks
> 
> one thread ask if homophobia can be cured and not a peep out of them
> 
> but talk about this therapy and they go nuts



Yes, homophobia can be "cured" because you aren't born hating people. 

"This therapy" as you put it has a history of harm. It _hurts _people. That's okay with you?


----------



## Stephanie

Seawytch said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> They  control freaks
> 
> one thread ask if homophobia can be cured and not a peep out of them
> 
> but talk about this therapy and they go nuts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, homophobia can be "cured" because you aren't born hating people.
> 
> "This therapy" as you put it has a history of harm. It _hurts _people. That's okay with you?
Click to expand...


If you aren't born haten people then why do you refer to someone who isn't homosexual, hetros?
and ANY therapy,  I don't care if it's witch craft to voodoo,  if a Person want's to use it's THEIR CHOICE
remember that WORD you all use for killing ones offspring, A WOMANS CHOICE


----------



## Inevitable

GreenBean said:


> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are a sad little person, not only are you a degenerate , but you're a low IQ, poorly informed, uneducated and ignorant one-
> 
> 
> 
> I take that to mean you have no proof of the "homosexuals taking over the APA." And since your entire argument is based on discreditingthem you have utterly failed.
> 
> 
> 
> That is likely why you have to lower yourself to calling me a "sad little person" and a "degenerate" with a "low IQ" that you ignorantly claim is "uninformed and uneducated." If you had an argument you wouldn't need to be reduced to slander and other such projections.
> 
> "When the argument is lost slander becomes the tool of the loser." - Socrates-
> 
> Basics, since all you can do is slander me, that must mean you lost the argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *GreenBean: *My points stand unrefuted,  you are a loser in life and probably always will be  - die young and do the world a favor - Regards and best wishes.
> 
> *Inevitable:* No your point is rubbish, it's a paranoid conspiracy theory.
> 
> *GreenBean: * In a conversation betweent Adults , which you apparently  are not - Opinions are supported by factual evidence - some of your opinions may be valid *-but-* you have yet to present a single fact to back up your opinions - so in effect you're a loser -
Click to expand...

I simply doubt your conspiracy theory.
.....



> So you feel Dr Cummings was a "Kook" when* he authored and supported the motion to remove Homosexuality from the DSM *


No, I believe it was improperlylisted in the first place. 



> And while you're at it what about *Dr. Rogers Wright* former member of APA's Board of Directors, who stated that "psychology has been ultra-libera...and beholden to the Gay Rights movement" Wright described the difficulties he has encountered with the American Psychological Association -


If he could explain why he believes that homosexuality was ever listed as a mental disorder, and lay off the political cry baby routine I might give what he said some weight.  



> Or* Dr. A. Dean Byrd *another former APA officer who has bailed out of theorganization - because it has lost all crredibility


How did it lose credibly? Explain why is opinion is of any validity.



> Or *Dr. Frank Farley *who stated that "...APA should give the widest possible hearing to Dr. Cummings' concern about APA's preoccupation with political correctness, and should instead focus efforts on the decline in psychological practice."


What political correctness?



> Or *Dr. Jeffrey Satinover*, M.D. In his talk entitled "Judicial Abuse of Scientific Literature on Homosexuality by the American Mental Health Professional Organizations," he offered a tediously referenced description of ethics and morals breeches in recent legal cases that have led to landmark changes in family-law policy.


Judicial abuse? Now the courts are in on it? When did that happen?



> Or *Dr. Richard Fitzgibbons* who has stated said that "the American Psychiatric Association (APA) has continuously ignored evidence that homosexuality is a manifestation of a psychiatric disorder."


What's the pathology?



> Or *Dr. Apu Chakraborty* who has been blasted by the Gay Mafia for producing findings that were heresy to their ears and eyes - he prooved that the rates of mental disorder among gays were significantly higher,nay ridiculously higher than sane people. Rates of depression, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, phobia, self-harm, suicidal thoughts, substance abuse , alcohol dependence.


 correlation is not causation. That's basic psychology 

It seems like these doctors disagree with the APA, that isn't unheard of. It doesn'tmake them quacks. But what you have posted is rather empty and without information. List the pathology show their opinions to have validity verses just pathetic target practice.



> *I guess they were all quacks Right ?* And of course you are much more qualified to judge the issues


No, they just disagree with the APA I don't know enough about their theories to claim they are quacks. They are definitely alternative. But psychologists have been disagreeing about this issue since long before it was ever put into theDSM. If the APA is so weak to political influence who is to say homosexuality wasn't put in the DSM based on political whims.


You don't need to carry on with the personal crap first it clouds your argument second it distracts you, you are so interested in telling me to perform oral sex on other men that you can't even make a point.

It's a wonder your argument is shop weak.


----------



## GreenBean

JakeStarkey said:


> Greenbean needs to keep seeing his lie about shigella.
> 
> He has not responded to it yet, because he can't.
> 
> _shigellosis - definition of shigellosis in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
> 
> Description Shigellosis is a well-known cause of traveler's diarrhea and illness throughout the world. Shigella are extremely infectious bacteria, and ingestion of just 10 organisms is enough to cause severe diarrhea and dehydration. Shigella accounts for 10-20% of all cases of diarrhea worldwide, and in any given year infects over 140 million persons and kills 600,000, mostly children and the elderly. The most serious form of the disease is called dysentery, which is characterized by severe watery (and often blood- and mucous-streaked) diarrhea, abdominal cramping, rectal pain, and fever. Shigella is only one of several organisms that can cause dysentery, but the term bacillary dysentery is usually another name for shigellosis.
> 
> Most deaths are in less-developed or developing countries, but even in the United States, shigellosis can be a dangerous and potentially deadly disease. Poor hygiene, overcrowding, and improper storage of food are leading causes of infection. The following statistics show the marked difference in the frequency of cases between developed and less-developed countries; in the United States, about 30,000 individuals are hit by the disease each year or about 10 cases/100,000 population. On the other hand, infection in some areas of South America is 1,000 times more frequent. Shigellosis is most common in children below age five, and occurs less often in adults over 20.
> 
> Shigella infection spreads through food or water contaminated by human waste. Sources of transmission are:
> 
> contaminated milk, ice cream, vegetables and other foods which often cause epidemics
> household contacts (40% of adults and 20% of children will develop infection from such a source)
> poor hygiene and overcrowded living conditions
> day care centers
> sexual practices which lead to oral-anal contact, directly or indirectly
> 
> Nothing about homosexuals, but I imagine the last cause is overwhelmingly heterosexual. _



Jake , coming from you I find that post an incredible improvement over your usual drive by nonsensical tripe -* I really must commend you for your efforts,* especially given the fact that are working such limited intellectual capacity   

The copy and paste job you just perpetrated outlines the conventional modes by which shigelosis has been known to be contracted.  It is not an STD - so the fact that as you stated  " the last cause is overwhelming heterosexual" is somewhat irrelevant - but I'll  address it anyway , because youre a somewhat irrelevant person ....

Were it a disease that could be conracted equally by all persons, than you would expect it to be dispersed equally at a per capita percentage [Please let me know if you understand *per capita* or not - I doubt they covered it when they were handing out coloring books and crayons at your educational institution].  *It is not dispersed equally - it is contracted by homosexuals at aprox. 5X the rate that sane people* [heterosexual] contract it. 

*It is contracted commonly by gays because they suck each others shit coated organs while they salivatiouslly sodomize one another . * [Now I'm sure our modern educational institutions , despite having some of the lowest test scores on the planet, are very keen at educating the milk and cookie crowds that you frolic with into the "Joys of queer sex"  - so I think you probably understand some of what I just said.


----------



## GreenBean

Inevitable said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> I take that to mean you have no proof of the "homosexuals taking over the APA." And since your entire argument is based on discreditingthem you have utterly failed.
> 
> 
> 
> That is likely why you have to lower yourself to calling me a "sad little person" and a "degenerate" with a "low IQ" that you ignorantly claim is "uninformed and uneducated." If you had an argument you wouldn't need to be reduced to slander and other such projections.
> 
> "When the argument is lost slander becomes the tool of the loser." - Socrates-
> 
> Basics, since all you can do is slander me, that must mean you lost the argument.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GreenBean: *My points stand unrefuted,  you are a loser in life and probably always will be  - die young and do the world a favor - Regards and best wishes.
> 
> *Inevitable:* No your point is rubbish, it's a paranoid conspiracy theory.
> 
> *GreenBean: * In a conversation betweent Adults , which you apparently  are not - Opinions are supported by factual evidence - some of your opinions may be valid *-but-* you have yet to present a single fact to back up your opinions - so in effect you're a loser -
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I simply doubt your conspiracy theory.
> .....
> 
> No, I believe it was improperlylisted in the first place.
> 
> If he could explain why he believes that homosexuality was ever listed as a mental disorder, and lay off the political cry baby routine I might give what he said some weight.
> 
> How did it lose credibly? Explain why is opinion is of any validity.
> 
> What political correctness?
> 
> Judicial abuse? Now the courts are in on it? When did that happen?
> 
> What's the pathology?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or *Dr. Apu Chakraborty* who has been blasted by the Gay Mafia for producing findings that were heresy to their ears and eyes - he prooved that the rates of mental disorder among gays were significantly higher,nay ridiculously higher than sane people. Rates of depression, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, phobia, self-harm, suicidal thoughts, substance abuse , alcohol dependence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> correlation is not causation. That's basic psychology
> 
> It seems like these doctors disagree with the APA, that isn't unheard of. It doesn'tmake them quacks. But what you have posted is rather empty and without information. List the pathology show their opinions to have validity verses just pathetic target practice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I guess they were all quacks Right ?* And of course you are much more qualified to judge the issues
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, they just disagree with the APA I don't know enough about their theories to claim they are quacks. They are definitely alternative. But psychologists have been disagreeing about this issue since long before it was ever put into theDSM. If the APA is so weak to political influence who is to say homosexuality wasn't put in the DSM based on political whims.
> 
> 
> You don't need to carry on with the personal crap first it clouds your argument second it distracts you, you are so interested in telling me to perform oral sex on other men that you can't even make a point.
> 
> It's a wonder your argument is shop weak.
Click to expand...


*GreenBean:* So you feel Dr Cummings was a "Kook" when he authored and supported the motion to remove Homosexuality from the DSM

*Inevitable: *No, I believe it was improperlylisted in the first place. 

*GreenBean:* And what are your qualifications ?   -there are some people , who are qualified that share your opinion - but they back up what they have to say with facts -  I don't agree with what they believe - but at least their opinions are informationally based - not simply based on a personal bias  .



> I guess they were all quacks Right ? And of course you are much more qualified to judge the issues because you're a cock sucker
> [ See Post - http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...aid-of-conversion-therapy-14.html#post9302766 ]




*GreenBean:*And while you're at it what about Dr. Rogers Wright former member of APA's Board of Directors, who stated that "psychology has been ultra-libera...and beholden to the Gay Rights movement" Wright described the difficulties he has encountered with the American Psychological Association -

*Inevitable: * If he could explain why he believes that homosexuality was ever listed as a mental disorder, and lay off the political cry baby routine I might give what he said some weight. 

*GreenBean:*  He has - on many occasios , google it or read one of his books

The rest of your post is simply more poorly informed and highly biased opinion - but I'llgive you credit for trying - maybe there's  hope for you - but I doubt it


----------



## Seawytch

Stephanie said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> They  control freaks
> 
> one thread ask if homophobia can be cured and not a peep out of them
> 
> but talk about this therapy and they go nuts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, homophobia can be "cured" because you aren't born hating people.
> 
> "This therapy" as you put it has a history of harm. It _hurts _people. That's okay with you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you aren't born haten people then why do you refer to someone who isn't homosexual, hetros?
Click to expand...


I'm sorry, you'll have to try that one again in English. 


> and ANY therapy,  I don't care if it's witch craft to voodoo,  if a Person want's to use it's THEIR CHOICE
> remember that WORD you all use for killing ones offspring, A WOMANS CHOICE



Yes, if an adult wants to harm themselves, that's fine with me. I don't have a problem with adults choosing this type of "therapy" anymore than I object to adults choosing Angel therapy. (yeah, it's a real thing)

But the Texas GOP actually put this bullshit akin to Angel Therapy in their _*platform*_ to the extent that they don't want ANY restrictions on it, like the restrictions in CA and NJ which limit it to ADULTS. Get it  now, Steph?


----------



## Inevitable

I removed the bits of your argument that was just trolling and childish insults. Seems there isn't much left, but I will precede 





GreenBean said:


> [It is not an STD - so the fact that as you stated  " the last cause is overwhelming heterosexual" is somewhat irrelevant.


Ooo this ought to be good.



> Were it a disease that could be conracted equally by all persons, than you would expect it to be dispersed equally at a per capita percentage


So you are saying that this illness targets homosexuals, I find that dubious but alas I will give you the benefit of the doubt.



> *It is not dispersed equally - it is contracted by homosexuals at aprox. 5X the rate that heterosexual contract it.*


*It would be nice to see a link to the CDC, you know facts. Since you aren't trustworthy. 




It is contracted commonly by gays because they suck each others shit coated organs while they salivatiouslly sodomize one another.

Click to expand...

Thank you doctor asshat butI would be interested in CDC statistics.

Boy there isn't much to your arguments out side of puffy superiority complex.*


----------



## JFK_USA

The Rabbi said:


> So attempts to help young men having identity crises are bad?  I thought libs cared about people.



You're not helping anyone with conversion therapy. It only helps the people sending their children to the therapy. It's pure crap and it doesn't work unless your goal is to get people to kill themselves over the torture and guilt you give them.


----------



## Inevitable

GreenBean said:


> *GreenBean:* So you feel Dr Cummings was a "Kook" when he authored and supported the motion to remove Homosexuality from the DSM
> 
> *Inevitable: *No, I believe it was improperlylisted in the first place.


Apparently Dr. Cummings did too.



> *GreenBean:* And what are your qualifications ?


To ask questions? I didn't think I needed any.





> -there are some people , who are qualified that share your opinion - but they back up what they have to say with facts


What opinions are those?    





> I don't agree with what they believe - but at least their opinions are informationally based - not simply based on a personal bias.


What opinions are those? That some doctors disagree? Meh I don't really feel the need to prove that seems relatively pointless.

Anything else would come from the APA and UCDavis and of courseyou think they are controlled by the gay Jedi or gay illuminati or some other such fictional boogeyman sowhy bother?  



> I guess they were all quacks Right ? And of course you are much more qualified to judge the issues


I can't make the judgment thatthey are quacks without reading their work, but I would bf skeptical due to missing peer review.



> *GreenBean:*And while you're at it what about Dr. Rogers Wright former member of APA's Board of Directors, who stated that "psychology has been ultra-libera...and beholden to the Gay Rights movement" Wright described the difficulties he has encountered with the American Psychological Association -
> 
> *Inevitable: * If he could explain why he believes that homosexuality was ever listed as a mental disorder, and lay off the political cry baby routine I might give what he said some weight.
> 
> *GreenBean:*  He has - on many occasios , google it or read one of his books
> 
> The rest of your post is simply more poorly informed and highly biased opinion - but I'llgive you credit for trying - maybe there's  hope for you - but I doubt it


Meh, don't care to read his books.

How convenient that you remove the parts of my post that you can't refute. What a wimp.


----------



## GreenBean

*GreenBean*:And what are your qualifications ?

*Inevitable:*To ask questions? I didn't think I needed any.

*GreenBean*:  To ask questions - No . You don't even need qualifications to spout your opinions - but when you somehow think your opinion carries more weught than troves of professionals - than you need some data to back those opinions up - or they are simply the laughable rants of a sexual degenerate.  

--------------------

*GreenBean* there are some people , who are qualified that share your opinion - but they back up what they have to say with facts

*Inevitable:*  What opinions are those?

*GreenBean*  Oh !  so now you're saying you have no opinion - yup okay 

------------------

*GreenBean*  I don't agree with what they believe - but at least their opinions are informationally based - not simply based on a personal bias.

*Inevitable:* What opinions are those? That some doctors disagree? Meh I don't really feel the need to prove that seems relatively pointless.

Anything else would come from the APA and UCDavis and of courseyou think they are controlled by the gay Jedi or gay illuminati or some other such fictional boogeyman sowhy bother? 

*GreenBean* I generally address the content of an article - but will also point out the unreliability of the source if that is the case.

Fell free to do the same - but at least first address the content - being that you are on a much lower level intellectually than the average poster is more than likely the reason you have been unable to cite a single viable argument, although sloven laziness could be another diagnosis. 

-------------------------

*GreenBean*:And while you're at it what about Dr. Rogers Wright former member of APA's Board of Directors, who stated that "psychology has been ultra-libera...and beholden to the Gay Rights movement" Wright described the difficulties he has encountered with the American Psychological Association -

*Inevitable:* If he could explain why he believes that homosexuality was ever listed as a mental disorder, and lay off the political cry baby routine I might give what he said some weight. 

*GreenBean* He has - on many occasios , google it or read one of his books

The rest of your post is simply more poorly informed and highly biased opinion - but I'llgive you credit for trying - maybe there's hope for you - but I doubt it 

--------------------

*GreenBean*I guess they were all quacks Right ? And of course you are much more qualified to judge the issues

*Inevitable:* 

I can't make the judgment thatthey are quacks without reading their work, but I would bf skeptical due to missing peer review.

*GreenBean* You have no clue - do you young man ?    You wouldn't know peer review if it bit you in the ass - and I sincerely doubt you would even be able to comprehend much of what you read even if you made the effort to.

I'm not saying you're stupid , but you are certainly not showing too many signs of intelligence here [/B]  could it possibly be due to the fact that you are just one lazy ass kid


----------



## RosieS

GreenBean - you detract from your own content with constant ad hominems.

Inevitable - libel comes from the written word; slander comes from the spoken word. The term you wish to use is "libelous".

Carry on carrying on!

Regards from Rosie


----------



## GISMYS

GOD'S WORD GIVES A STRONG WARNING ON THE SICK ABOMINATION OF SEXUAL PERVERSION===The Lord can rescue you and me from the temptations that surround us, and continue to punish the ungodly until the day of final judgment comes. 10 He is especially hard on those who follow their own evil, lustful thoughts. 2 PETER 2:9-10==God let go of them and let them do all these evil things, so that even their women turned against God&#8217;s natural plan for them and indulged in sex sin with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sex relationships with women, burned with lust for each other, men doing shameful things with other men and, as a result, getting paid within their own souls with the penalty they so richly deserved.

32 They were fully aware of God&#8217;s death penalty for these crimes, yet they went right ahead and did them anyway and encouraged others to do them, too.
Romans 1:26-32== Don&#8217;t you know that those doing such things have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don&#8217;t fool yourselves. Those who live immoral lives, who are idol worshipers, adulterers or homosexuals&#8212;will have no share in his Kingdom. 
1 corinthians 6:9


----------



## GreenBean

RosieS said:


> GreenBean - you detract from your own content with constant ad hominems.
> 
> Inevitable - libel comes from the written word; slander comes from the spoken word. The term you wish to use is "libelous".
> 
> Carry on carrying on!
> 
> Regards from Rosie



Sorry Rosie , being insulting and arrogant to degenerates aand half wits just seems to come naturally.  But you're not the first to state that - so ya think I should play nice ?


----------



## Inevitable

I had to prune the worthless garbage from your post





GreenBean said:


> To ask questions - No


Well that is all I did. 



GreenBean said:


> Oh !  so now you're saying you have no opinion


No, I have an opinion, but I simply haven't spoken about it here.



GreenBean said:


> I generally address the content of an article - but will also point out the unreliability of the source if that is the case.


Okay, here you go.
Answers to Your Questions For a Better Understanding of Sexual Orientation and Homosexuality

APA Resolution on "Reparative Therapy"

Homosexuality and Mental Health



GreenBean said:


> Fell free to do the same - but at least first address the content


I pointed out the unreliability in your articles. 



GreenBean said:


> You have no clue


What peer review is? Yes I actually do. Thank you.

When you remove all your babbling childish name calling and what not you really don't say much.,


----------



## Inevitable

GreenBean said:


> Sorry Rosie , being insulting and arrogant to degenerates aand half wits just seems to come naturally.  But you're not the first to state that - so ya think I should play nice ?


Well insults are all you have, because your argument falls flat.


----------



## Inevitable

RosieS said:


> GreenBean - you detract from your own content with constant ad hominems.
> 
> Inevitable - libel comes from the written word; slander comes from the spoken word. The term you wish to use is "libelous".
> 
> Carry on carrying on!
> 
> Regards from Rosie



Libel huh, learn something new every day thank you.


----------



## Noomi

GISMYS said:


> GOD'S WORD GIVES A STRONG WARNING ON THE SICK ABOMINATION OF SEXUAL PERVERSION===The Lord can rescue you and me from the temptations that surround us, and continue to punish the ungodly until the day of final judgment comes. 10 He is especially hard on those who follow their own evil, lustful thoughts. 2 PETER 2:9-10==God let go of them and let them do all these evil things, so that even their women turned against Gods natural plan for them and indulged in sex sin with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sex relationships with women, burned with lust for each other, men doing shameful things with other men and, as a result, getting paid within their own souls with the penalty they so richly deserved.
> 
> 32 They were fully aware of Gods death penalty for these crimes, yet they went right ahead and did them anyway and encouraged others to do them, too.
> Romans 1:26-32== Dont you know that those doing such things have no share in the Kingdom of God? Dont fool yourselves. Those who live immoral lives, who are idol worshipers, adulterers or homosexualswill have no share in his Kingdom.
> 1 corinthians 6:9



So how many gay people has God commanded you to kill?


----------



## GISMYS

Noomi said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> GOD'S WORD GIVES A STRONG WARNING ON THE SICK ABOMINATION OF SEXUAL PERVERSION===The Lord can rescue you and me from the temptations that surround us, and continue to punish the ungodly until the day of final judgment comes. 10 He is especially hard on those who follow their own evil, lustful thoughts. 2 PETER 2:9-10==God let go of them and let them do all these evil things, so that even their women turned against Gods natural plan for them and indulged in sex sin with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sex relationships with women, burned with lust for each other, men doing shameful things with other men and, as a result, getting paid within their own souls with the penalty they so richly deserved.
> 
> 32 They were fully aware of Gods death penalty for these crimes, yet they went right ahead and did them anyway and encouraged others to do them, too.
> Romans 1:26-32== Dont you know that those doing such things have no share in the Kingdom of God? Dont fool yourselves. Those who live immoral lives, who are idol worshipers, adulterers or homosexualswill have no share in his Kingdom.
> 1 corinthians 6:9
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So how many gay people has God commanded you to kill?
Click to expand...


THOSE LIVING IN THE ABOMINATION OF SEXUAL PERVERSION GET  paid within their own souls with the penalty they so richly deserved.Those who live immoral lives, who are idol worshipers, adulterers or homosexualswill have no share in his Kingdom. 
1 corinthians 6:9


----------



## Inevitable

Noomi said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> GOD'S WORD GIVES A STRONG WARNING ON THE SICK ABOMINATION OF SEXUAL PERVERSION===The Lord can rescue you and me from the temptations that surround us, and continue to punish the ungodly until the day of final judgment comes. 10 He is especially hard on those who follow their own evil, lustful thoughts. 2 PETER 2:9-10==God let go of them and let them do all these evil things, so that even their women turned against Gods natural plan for them and indulged in sex sin with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sex relationships with women, burned with lust for each other, men doing shameful things with other men and, as a result, getting paid within their own souls with the penalty they so richly deserved.
> 
> 32 They were fully aware of Gods death penalty for these crimes, yet they went right ahead and did them anyway and encouraged others to do them, too.
> Romans 1:26-32== Dont you know that those doing such things have no share in the Kingdom of God? Dont fool yourselves. Those who live immoral lives, who are idol worshipers, adulterers or homosexualswill have no share in his Kingdom.
> 1 corinthians 6:9
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So how many gay people has God commanded you to kill?
Click to expand...

it has been my experience that bible beaters aren't capableof independent thought. They only repeat what the hive mind tells them to.


----------



## hadit

Noomi said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> GOD'S WORD GIVES A STRONG WARNING ON THE SICK ABOMINATION OF SEXUAL PERVERSION===The Lord can rescue you and me from the temptations that surround us, and continue to punish the ungodly until the day of final judgment comes. 10 He is especially hard on those who follow their own evil, lustful thoughts. 2 PETER 2:9-10==God let go of them and let them do all these evil things, so that even their women turned against Gods natural plan for them and indulged in sex sin with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sex relationships with women, burned with lust for each other, men doing shameful things with other men and, as a result, getting paid within their own souls with the penalty they so richly deserved.
> 
> 32 They were fully aware of Gods death penalty for these crimes, yet they went right ahead and did them anyway and encouraged others to do them, too.
> Romans 1:26-32== Dont you know that those doing such things have no share in the Kingdom of God? Dont fool yourselves. Those who live immoral lives, who are idol worshipers, adulterers or homosexualswill have no share in his Kingdom.
> 1 corinthians 6:9
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So how many gay people has God commanded you to kill?
Click to expand...


Interesting and vast leap of illogic there.  Am I to assume that because you disagree with people who don't support homosexuality that you are commanded to kill them as well?


----------



## itfitzme

healthmyths said:


> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.



Who says they're "afraid"?

I think you are confused about what that feeling is.

Conversion " therapy" is like trying to force a left handed to be right handed.  Handedness is just some fundamental charcteristic that isn't modifiable.  You are one or the other. Then, you learn how to do things given your handedness.  

Attempting to force a left handed child to be right handed causes severe phsychological problems.  It is abusive.

Sexual orientation is a fundamental characteristic.  Conversion "therapy" shouldn't be called a therapy.  It is nothing less than abuse under the guise of being a treatment.  

The real illness is the obsessive compulsion that some people have with regard to other people sexual orientation.  If you are not in an intimate relationship with another person, it is simply none of your business what their intimate life is.


----------



## GreenBean

*Inevitable: *I had to prune the worthless garbage from your post

*GreenBean:  *Okay , so then why are you still here ? 


etcetra etcetra ecetra ....

*GreenBean:  * I generally address the content of an article - but will also point out the unreliability of the source if that is the case.

*Inevitable: * Okay, here you go.

Answers to Your Questions For a Better Understanding of Sexual Orientation and Homosexuality

APA Resolution on "Reparative Therapy"

Homosexuality and Mental Health

*GreenBean:  * 

*Link # 1 *- Fromn the *APA* [LMAO] 

16 Pages long ...I sincerely doubt your read it - and right now Im not willing to invest that amount of time from someone who is not making sense - what portion of the article would you like to discuss ?  what quotes or content from said article would you care to use to defend your positions ?

*Link # 2 *  Okay - so we all know the APA is oppossed to Reperative Therapy  , what exactly are you attempting to prove by posting the resolution ? I'm not trying to be snide or nasty -I'm just curious as to what your point is ? 

*Link # 3* UC Davis , another pro-gay website . The article you posted  has been adressed a number of times - it basically links religous history with anti-gay activities through History .  The first five paragraphs are simply a history lesson , by the end of the 5th they discuss the theories of an early 20th Century researcher  Havelock Ellis and attempt to link his theories re: your dementia with those of Freud - Ellis was a rogue researcher who was not  very respected - but he believed Homosexuality was not a dementia - he provided some logical hypothesis - which is still used by  Gay activists today - over a hundred years later - but was largely discredited - *do you have an opinion re: Ellis research and theories that you would like to defend ?*

*By the tenth paragraph* they delve into scientific objectivity and make some valid points re: some early studies that examined and used somewhat tainted data 


> ....only examined homosexuals who were already under psychiatric care &#8211; in other words, homosexuals who were seeking treatment or therapy.



*Which is a very valid reason to question the studies findings - and puts into Question the validity of research, some of which was used to label your dementia as an illness *  They are right in this claim that the early 20th Century studies they cited were not objective , in that their test and control groups were tainted , and not random - the results are not considered accurate or reliable under those conditions . 

*However *


They entirely destroy their own argument and shoot themselves in the foot by the eleventh paragraph when they defend he studies of Alfred Kinsey - which have proven to have been falsified , and even more tainted than the earlier studies they chastised . They engage in Blatant Hypocrisy and proove themselves to be biased propagandists and not respectable scholars. 



> ...the majority &#8212; feel desperately besieged on all sides by this "new morality" being promoted by the small but powerful minority of artistic, intellectual, academic, and scientific elite.
> 
> One of the important areas where I think my research has made a very significant contribution is in uncovering the legal subversion that Kinsey is greatly responsible for. Very few Americans have any knowledge or appreciation for the enormity of his influence in this important realm. One indicator of this is the fact that Kinsey is the most cited sex scientist by far in Westlaw and the other legal indices. In my latest book I give several pages listing hundreds of law journal citations. His bogus science has been cited in case after case to overturn laws, for instance, that protect society against sex offenders.
> 
> http://www.whale.to/b/reisman3.html




they continue with their hypocrisy by using the *Evelyn Hooker* Study which a travesty and an insult to the intelligemce of any serious scientist. 



> H*ookers Studies however were the product of a deliberate campaign by Gay activists to bring forward particular, pre-arranged outcomes, an approach that ignores scientific objectivity*.  Objectivity is a basic philosophical concept, related to reality and truth.  Objectivity means the state or quality of being true even outside of a subject's individual biases, interpretations, feelings, and imaginings. Scientific Objectivity is a value that informs how scientific studies are conducted and how scientific truths are arrived at. It is the idea that scientists, in attempting to uncover truths about the natural world, must aspire to eliminate personal biases, emotional involvement, etc ...   Hookers Studies failed the most basic of Litmus tests regarding Objectivity.  Hooker was an associate of the Mattachine Society and was lobbied and eventually convinced to conduct a research study of homosexuality for the sole purpose of advancing their Agenda.
> 
> The study, "The adjustment of the male overt homosexual", Hooker administered several standardized personality tests to two sets of men, the first group of 30 was homosexual and heavily screened by the Mattachine Society and the other heterosexual. The whole purpose of the study was to examine the instances of mental instability in homosexuals, However, individuals who showed the slightest signs of mental instability were excluded , it was not a random test and was designed to arrive at predetermined results.
> 
> The studies subjects were not randomly selected. on the contrary they were chosen and screened entirely by the Mattachine Society, an organization that Hooker herself admitted in the report had as its stated purpose " the development of a homosexual ethic in order to better integrate the homosexual into society."  The heterosexual subjects were obtained from "community organizations" which she refused to divulge. *The inadequacy of her methodology was even acknowledged by the Journal that published it.*
> 
> Hooker concluded her report by offering a set of "admissions" about the limitations of her study.  *In this section she concedes the possibility that homosexuals are indeed pathological, a point conveniently overlooked by the Gay Activists, but proven out by later and more reliable studies.  So even though Dr. Hooker prostituted herself to the Mattachine Society, some element of the scientist had to shine through.*
> 
> Scientific method describes a method for conducting an objective investigation. The scientific method involves making observations and conducting an experiment to test a hypothesis. An experiment or Study must be reproducible, which is important in science! If you have trouble duplicating results from one experiment to another then there is a flaw in your results.  Dr. Hookers study failed to remain within the parameters which are dictated by "Good Science" she did however remain within the parameters of "Good Propaganda' and served her sponsor well. The following studies are ones which remained within the parameters of Good Science.
> 
> Evelyn Hooker Study Flawed




They then go into the removal of Homosexuality from the DSM - a motion authored by Dr.Nicholas Cummings -the man you call a Quack -because he longer agrees with your side .

So what portion of the articles you cited [and probably never read]  would you care to defend or discuss ?


----------



## GreenBean

healthmyths said:


> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.



You covered both sides of the argument brillaintly 



> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.





> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but *HOW MANY ?*  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?



I really don't think it's about how many ACTUAL suicides as it about how many votes he can buy - 

Should Brown fail to embrace and bow down to the cult of LGBT  especially in their capital California - you can add one suicide to that list BROWNS  and it would be a *political suicide *


----------



## JakeStarkey

> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Greenbean needs to keep seeing his lie about shigella.
> 
> He has not responded to it yet, because he can't.
> 
> _shigellosis - definition of shigellosis in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
> 
> Description Shigellosis is a well-known cause of traveler's diarrhea and illness throughout the world. Shigella are extremely infectious bacteria, and ingestion of just 10 organisms is enough to cause severe diarrhea and dehydration. Shigella accounts for 10-20% of all cases of diarrhea worldwide, and in any given year infects over 140 million persons and kills 600,000, mostly children and the elderly. The most serious form of the disease is called dysentery, which is characterized by severe watery (and often blood- and mucous-streaked) diarrhea, abdominal cramping, rectal pain, and fever. Shigella is only one of several organisms that can cause dysentery, but the term bacillary dysentery is usually another name for shigellosis.
> 
> Most deaths are in less-developed or developing countries, but even in the United States, shigellosis can be a dangerous and potentially deadly disease. Poor hygiene, overcrowding, and improper storage of food are leading causes of infection. The following statistics show the marked difference in the frequency of cases between developed and less-developed countries; in the United States, about 30,000 individuals are hit by the disease each year or about 10 cases/100,000 population. On the other hand, infection in some areas of South America is 1,000 times more frequent. Shigellosis is most common in children below age five, and occurs less often in adults over 20.
> 
> Shigella infection spreads through food or water contaminated by human waste. Sources of transmission are:
> 
> contaminated milk, ice cream, vegetables and other foods which often cause epidemics
> household contacts (40% of adults and 20% of children will develop infection from such a source)
> poor hygiene and overcrowded living conditions
> day care centers
> sexual practices which lead to oral-anal contact, directly or indirectly
> 
> Nothing about homosexuals, but I imagine the last cause is overwhelmingly heterosexual. _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jake , coming from you I find that post an incredible improvement over your usual drive by nonsensical tripe
Click to expand...


You finally gave me something other than your opinion.

You were still wrong in ascribing it to homosexuality when the contacts are overwhelmingly heterosexual.

Keep this up, and I will keep correcting you, and you will grow more aware of how unaware you are.

Now Greenbean Snow, you know something: that you know almost nothing.


----------



## JakeStarkey

GreenBean said:


> RosieS said:
> 
> 
> 
> GreenBean - you detract from your own content with constant ad hominems.
> 
> Inevitable - libel comes from the written word; slander comes from the spoken word. The term you wish to use is "libelous".
> 
> Carry on carrying on!
> 
> Regards from Rosie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Rosie , being insulting and arrogant to degenerates aand half wits just seems to come naturally.  But you're not the first to state that - so ya think I should play nice ?
Click to expand...


Greenbean is indeed a mental half wit and a moral degenerate.

No need to play nice with him.


----------



## JakeStarkey

The APA finding stands without any blows from Greenbean.

He is entitled to (1) his opinion, and (2) being corrected every time he tells falsehoods, which has been the entirety of this thread.


----------



## Howey

GreenBean said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You covered both sides of the argument brillaintly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but *HOW MANY ?*  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I really don't think it's about how many ACTUAL suicides as it about how many votes he can buy -
> 
> Should Brown fail to embrace and bow down to the cult of LGBT  especially in their capital California - you can add one suicide to that list BROWNS  and it would be a *political suicide *
Click to expand...


No he didn't. 

If homosexuality it a learned behavior,  then how is it learned when the child is raised in a heterosexual home?


----------



## Inevitable

GreenBean said:


> *Link # 1 *- Fromn the *APA* [LMAO]


Loony bird isn't a credible link. 



GreenBean said:


> 16 Pages long ...I sincerely doubt your read it - and right now Im not willing to invest that amount of time from someone who is not making sense - what portion of the article would you like to discuss ?  what quotes or content from said article would you care to use to defend your positions ?


Don't be lazy it's a paragraph or two tops on every page. But it basically states the cause of homosexuality is unknown. 



GreenBean said:


> *Link # 2 *  Okay - so we all know the APA is oppossed to Reperative Therapy  , what exactly are you attempting to prove by posting the resolution ? I'm not trying to be snide or nasty -I'm just curious as to what your point is?


They are a reputable source for information. All reputable associations oppose it. Info from a gag website like loony bird who's title line in discrediting the APA is this paranoid delusional crap, "Some homosexuals have gone beyond the plane of defensiveness and
now argue that deviancy is a noble preferable way of life." Don't hold a candle to the real thing.



GreenBean said:


> *Link # 3* UC Davis , another pro-gay website.


Your opinions about their motives doesn't discredit them.  





GreenBean said:


> The article you posted  has been adressed a number of times - it basically links religous history with anti-gay activities through History .  The first five paragraphs are simply a history lesson


True history and important none the less., by 





GreenBean said:


> the end of the 5th they discuss the theories of an early 20th Century researcher  Havelock Ellis and attempt to link his theories re: your dementia with those of Freud - Ellis was a rogue researcher who was not  very respected - but he believed Homosexuality was not a dementia - he provided some logical hypothesis - which is still used by  Gay activists today - over a hundred years later - but was largely discredited


Discredited by whom? What difference does that make if his research was sound?- 



GreenBean said:


> *By the tenth paragraph* they delve into scientific objectivity and make some valid points re: some early studies that examined and used somewhat tainted data
> 
> 
> 
> ....only examined homosexuals who were already under psychiatric care  in other words, homosexuals who were seeking treatment or therapy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Which is a very valid reason to question the studies findings - and puts into Question the validity of research, some of which was used to label your dementia as an illness *  They are right in this claim that the early 20th Century studies they cited were not objective , in that their test and control groups were tainted , and not random - the results are not considered accurate or reliable under those conditions .
> 
> *However *
> 
> 
> They entirely destroy their own argument and shoot themselves in the foot by the eleventh paragraph when they defend he studies of Alfred Kinsey - which have proven to have been falsified , and even more tainted than the earlier studies they chastised . They engage in Blatant Hypocrisy and proove themselves to be biased propagandists and not respectable scholars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...the majority  feel desperately besieged on all sides by this "new morality" being promoted by the small but powerful minority of artistic, intellectual, academic, and scientific elite.
> 
> One of the important areas where I think my research has made a very significant contribution is in uncovering the legal subversion that Kinsey is greatly responsible for. Very few Americans have any knowledge or appreciation for the enormity of his influence in this important realm. One indicator of this is the fact that Kinsey is the most cited sex scientist by far in Westlaw and the other legal indices. In my latest book I give several pages listing hundreds of law journal citations. His bogus science has been cited in case after case to overturn laws, for instance, that protect society against sex offenders.
> 
> Fighting the Kinsey Fraud: Interview with Dr. Judith Reisman
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Right where you said "However" you went off on an irrelevant tangent. Even if Dr. Reisman thinks she has debunked Kinsey (I am not so sure that she did) itthat (iffy) fact wouldn't negate the biased confirmation.




GreenBean said:


> they continue with their hypocrisy by using the *Evelyn Hooker* Study which a travesty and an insult to the intelligemce of any serious scientist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> H*ookers Studies however were the product of a deliberate campaign by Gay activists to bring forward particular, pre-arranged outcomes, an approach that ignores scientific objectivity*.  Objectivity is a basic philosophical concept, related to reality and truth.  Objectivity means the state or quality of being true even outside of a subject's individual biases, interpretations, feelings, and imaginings. Scientific Objectivity is a value that informs how scientific studies are conducted and how scientific truths are arrived at. It is the idea that scientists, in attempting to uncover truths about the natural world, must aspire to eliminate personal biases, emotional involvement, etc ...   Hookers Studies failed the most basic of Litmus tests regarding Objectivity.  Hooker was an associate of the Mattachine Society and was lobbied and eventually convinced to conduct a research study of homosexuality for the sole purpose of advancing their Agenda.
> 
> The study, "The adjustment of the male overt homosexual", Hooker administered several standardized personality tests to two sets of men, the first group of 30 was homosexual and heavily screened by the Mattachine Society and the other heterosexual. The whole purpose of the study was to examine the instances of mental instability in homosexuals, However, individuals who showed the slightest signs of mental instability were excluded , it was not a random test and was designed to arrive at predetermined results.
> 
> The studies subjects were not randomly selected. on the contrary they were chosen and screened entirely by the Mattachine Society, an organization that Hooker herself admitted in the report had as its stated purpose " the development of a homosexual ethic in order to better integrate the homosexual into society."  The heterosexual subjects were obtained from "community organizations" which she refused to divulge. *The inadequacy of her methodology was even acknowledged by the Journal that published it.*
> 
> Hooker concluded her report by offering a set of "admissions" about the limitations of her study.  *In this section she concedes the possibility that homosexuals are indeed pathological, a point conveniently overlooked by the Gay Activists, but proven out by later and more reliable studies.  So even though Dr. Hooker prostituted herself to the Mattachine Society, some element of the scientist had to shine through.*
> 
> Scientific method describes a method for conducting an objective investigation. The scientific method involves making observations and conducting an experiment to test a hypothesis. An experiment or Study must be reproducible, which is important in science! If you have trouble duplicating results from one experiment to another then there is a flaw in your results.  Dr. Hookers study failed to remain within the parameters which are dictated by "Good Science" she did however remain within the parameters of "Good Propaganda' and served her sponsor well. The following studies are ones which remained within the parameters of Good Science.
> 
> Evelyn Hooker Study Flawed
Click to expand...

This still doesn't debunk earlier studies, or explain why it was admitted into theDSM IN the first place. And loony bird is a blog of paranoid delusions. So anything on that sight will come under heavy scrutiny.




> They then go into the removal of Homosexuality from the DSM - a motion authored by Dr.Nicholas Cummings -the man you call a Quack -because he longer agrees with your side.


Enough with your delusions, I never called him a quack andI don't have a side. If all you can do is produce ridiculous strawman arguments and pretend like this isa basketball game than I assume you can't defend your position.  



> So what portion of the articles you cited [and probably never read]  would you care to defend or discuss ?


They need no defense, they are published by UCDAVIS. You tried to debunk them with loony bird and Dr reisman's opinion. Sorry, bringsomething to the table besides this conspiracy theory. You mentioned "the gay agenda" and things being "pro gay" as a way to discredit them.  Sorry, your paranoid delusions, no matter what PhD shares them simply isn't enough.

Don't post crap from what other people think, people disagree all the time nomatter how many letters they have behind their name. Post facts.

Such as: 
What is the Psychosis?
Studies that weren't tainted.

That would be a good start.

Discredit the APA with facts, nit opinions of disagreeable doctors.


----------



## GreenBean

JakeStarkey said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Greenbean needs to keep seeing his lie about shigella.
> 
> He has not responded to it yet, because he can't.
> 
> _shigellosis - definition of shigellosis in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
> 
> Description Shigellosis is a well-known cause of traveler's diarrhea and illness throughout the world. Shigella are extremely infectious bacteria, and ingestion of just 10 organisms is enough to cause severe diarrhea and dehydration. Shigella accounts for 10-20% of all cases of diarrhea worldwide, and in any given year infects over 140 million persons and kills 600,000, mostly children and the elderly. The most serious form of the disease is called dysentery, which is characterized by severe watery (and often blood- and mucous-streaked) diarrhea, abdominal cramping, rectal pain, and fever. Shigella is only one of several organisms that can cause dysentery, but the term bacillary dysentery is usually another name for shigellosis.
> 
> Most deaths are in less-developed or developing countries, but even in the United States, shigellosis can be a dangerous and potentially deadly disease. Poor hygiene, overcrowding, and improper storage of food are leading causes of infection. The following statistics show the marked difference in the frequency of cases between developed and less-developed countries; in the United States, about 30,000 individuals are hit by the disease each year or about 10 cases/100,000 population. On the other hand, infection in some areas of South America is 1,000 times more frequent. Shigellosis is most common in children below age five, and occurs less often in adults over 20.
> 
> Shigella infection spreads through food or water contaminated by human waste. Sources of transmission are:
> 
> &#8226;contaminated milk, ice cream, vegetables and other foods which often cause epidemics
> &#8226;household contacts (40% of adults and 20% of children will develop infection from such a source)
> &#8226;poor hygiene and overcrowded living conditions
> &#8226;day care centers
> &#8226;sexual practices which lead to oral-anal contact, directly or indirectly
> 
> Nothing about homosexuals, but I imagine the last cause is overwhelmingly heterosexual. _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jake , coming from you I find that post an incredible improvement over your usual drive by nonsensical tripe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You finally gave me something other than your opinion.
> 
> You were still wrong in ascribing it to homosexuality when the contacts are overwhelmingly heterosexual.
> 
> Keep this up, and I will keep correcting you, and you will grow more aware of how unaware you are.
> 
> Now Greenbean Snow, you know something: that you know almost nothing.
Click to expand...


Wellwell well FakeMalarkey  - I see you conveniently left out the bulk of the post  *how convenient* 



> I really must commend you for your efforts, especially given the fact that are working such limited intellectual capacity
> 
> *The copy and paste job you just perpetrated outlines the conventional modes by which shigelosis has been known to be contracted.* It is not an STD - so the fact that as you stated " the last cause is overwhelming heterosexual" is somewhat irrelevant - but I'll address it anyway , because youre a somewhat irrelevant person ....
> 
> *Were it a disease that could be conracted equally by all persons, than you would expect it to be dispersed equally at a per capita percentage* [Please let me know if you understand per capita or not - I doubt they covered it when they were handing out coloring books and crayons at your educational institution]. It is not dispersed equally - it is contracted by homosexuals at aprox. 5X the rate that sane people [heterosexual] contract it.
> 
> It is contracted commonly by gays* because they suck each others shit coated organs while they salivatiouslly sodomize one another *. [Now I'm sure our modern educational institutions , despite having some of the lowest test scores on the planet, are very keen at educating the milk and cookie crowds that you frolic with into the "Joys of queer sex" - so I think you probably understand some of what I just said.


----------



## GreenBean

*Inevitable :*Loony bird isn't a credible link. 

*GreenBean: *  Proove it 

*Inevitable :* Don't be lazy it's a paragraph or two tops on every page. But it basically states the cause of homosexuality is unknown. 

*GreenBean: *  And this is correct - the cause of Homosexuality is unknown , although the bulk of the data seems to indicate it is not  something you are born with - there is minimal evidence o indicate  - that in some cases , and only some case it may well be a genetic defect.   However , both sides of he argument are both theories - - *do you understand the difference between theory and fact ?*

*Inevitable :*They are a reputable source for information. All reputable associations oppose it. Info from a gag website like loony bird who's title line in discrediting the APA is this paranoid delusional crap, "Some homosexuals have gone beyond the plane of defensiveness and
now argue that deviancy is a noble preferable way of life." Don't hold a candle to the real thing.

*GreenBean: *   Uhhh ... no ...sorry pal, hurt to burst your bubble , but the *APA is the laughing stock of the scientific community* - they become less and less credible each passing day. 


*GreenBean: * Link # 3 UC Davis , another pro-gay website.

*Inevitable :*Your opinions about their motives doesn't discredit them.

*GreenBean: * No, not my opinion itself, but the facts I presented m and others have also presented most certainly does.  They have not sunken to the depths of ridicule that the APA has brought upon itself [yet] - but as I pointed out - the hypocrisy of their article is blatant for any who are knowledgeable and objective on the topic

*Inevitable :*Right where you said "However" you went off on an irrelevant tangent. Even if Dr. Reisman thinks she has debunked Kinsey (I am not so sure that she did) itthat (iffy) fact wouldn't negate the biased confirmation.

*GreenBean: * The topic on Kinsey is not even worth discussing, and your stance betrays your lack of knowledge .  Reisman is only one of a many many many scholars who have successfully debunked him - to attempt to defend his crap is just plain silly .

*Inevitable :*This still doesn't debunk earlier studies

*GreenBean: * Such As  ? .....

*Inevitable :* And loony bird is a blog of paranoid delusions. So anything on that sight will come under heavy scrutiny.

*GreenBean: * I'm sure it has - but it comes down of a case of adress the content not a sites bizarre name.

*GreenBean: * So what portion of the articles you cited [and probably never read] would you care to defend or discuss ?

*Inevitable :* They need no defense, they are published by UCDAVIS. 

*GreenBean: * That's a cop out - question everything [University of California, Davis | UC Davis] is not a privileged God like organization that is unquestionable and has absolute and infinite knowledge - I chalk that statement you just made up to laziness - and leave it at that.

*Inevitable :* Don't post crap from what other people think, people disagree all the time nomatter how many letters they have behind their name. Post facts.

Such as: 
What is the Psychosis?

*GreenBean: *  Sexual Dysphoria 

From Cambridge - "The risk of psychotic symptoms is two to three times greater among homosexual ..."

Most mental illnesses [ Psychosis ] is accompanied by related psychotic disorders and  symptoms thereof- *homoseuxality is no exception*

&#8220;Homosexual study participants ... experienced a period during which they had psychotic perceptions or thoughts&#8221;  says Mr Gevonden, leading author of the paper. &#8220;...  depressive thoughts, or excessive drinking, or as in this case psychotic symptoms....hallucinations, .. hearing voices, or delusions, such as the idea that one is constantly being followed. Even if they are not serious and no help is sought, *psychotic symptoms have predictive value for the onset of a psychotic disorder such as schizophrenia.* Such disorders often result in the need for long-term care and are demanding to both the patient and his environment."   http://blog.journals.cambridge.org/2013/05/sexual-minorities-vulnerable-to-psychosis/

*Inevitable :*  ...Studies that weren't tainted.

*GreenBean: * *Okay ....*
1.} *Netherlands Mental Health Survey and Incidence Studies  Sexual minority status and psychotic symptoms Jan. 2014*

The aim of this study was to examine whether sexual minorities are at increased risk for psychotic symptoms and to explore mediating pathways. The study concluded that homosexual orientation is most definitely associated with psychotic symptoms and further states that the study adds to the growing body of literature linking minority status with psychosis and other mental health problems. In an effort to remain politically correct the paper presented goes on to suggest that their findings are possibly due to experiences of discrimination and social exclusion.

The risk of psychotic symptoms is two to three times greater among homosexual participants in the study than among heterosexual participants. The researchers found this result using data from the Netherlands Mental Health and Incidence Studies (NEMESIS-1 and NEMESIS-2), two large-scale epidemiological studies which aim to investigate how often mental health problems occur in the general population.   Sexual minority status and psychotic symptoms



2.} *Dr. Apu Chakraborty of University College London, UK.*

This Study explored the rates of mental disorder among 7,403 adults living in the UK, whose details were obtained from the Adult Psychiatric Morbidity Survey 2007. Rates of depression, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, phobia, self-harm, suicidal thoughts, and alcohol and drug dependence were significantly higher in homosexual respondents.  Hookers "study" only used two groups of 30 men each, and the homosexual respondents were hand picked, where as in the University College Study they were not.  Higher Risk of Mental Health Problems for Homosexuals

Elevated levels of psychiatric problems in nonheterosexual people are "very worrying and call not only for a response by professionals in primary care and mental health services but also efforts at prevention," Apu Chakraborty, PhD, MSc, MRCPsych, of the Department of Mental Health Sciences, University College London, United Kingdom, and colleagues conclude.  Medscape.com


*Inevitable :* Discredit the APA with facts, nit opinions of disagreeable doctors.

Here's another informed source for you -Jeffrey Santinover 

Santinover has been called as an expert witness in court cases, much to the dismay of the Gay lobby. He has been asked to assess briefs being submitted to state and the U.S. Supreme Courts, *Satinover has had the chance to tear apart hundreds of research papers offered as evidence by gay agenda activists who had been invited to represent the views of the major mental-health associations.*  Among Dr. Santinover other works are Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth , and The Quantum Brain: The Search for Freedom and the Next Generation of Man .

And lets have Dr. Richard Fitzgibbons chime in - Fitzgibbons has stated said that the American Psychiatric Association (APA) has continuously ignored evidence that homosexuality is a manifestation of a psychiatric disorder....Fitzgibbons, co-author of a Helping Clients Forgive, , said the .... It is being increasingly proven that children have a dire psychological need for a stable family with a mother and father, something the gay lifestyle simply can not accommodate.* Fitzgibbons presented a list of psychological difficulties endured by homosexuals. Which includes, but is certainly not limited to major depression, suicidal tendencies, sever anxiety disorders, addiction and substance abuse, lowered self-esteem ,inability to maintain committed relationships.*


----------



## Inevitable

GreenBean said:


> Proove it, I'm sure it has - but it comes down of a case of adress the content not a sites bizarre name.


Loony bird title line on the page attempting to debunk the APA: "Some homosexuals have gone beyond the plane of defensiveness and now argue that deviancy is a noble preferable way of life." It's a conspiracy theory.




GreenBean said:


> Uhhh ... no ...sorry pal, hurt to burst your bubble , but the *APA is the laughing stock of the scientific community* - they become less and less credible each passing day.


I don't care for your opinions of the APA, only facts.





GreenBean said:


> No, not my opinion itself, but the facts I presented m and others have also presented most certainly does.


Yes it is your opinion and you presentedno facts on it. 





GreenBean said:


> Such As  ? .....


See below.




GreenBean said:


> Sexual Dysphoria


Sexual disphoria is disphoria with your sex. This doesn't effect homosexuals, it's something linked to transgender people. 



GreenBean said:


> From Cambridge - "The risk of psychotic symptoms is two to three times greater among homosexual ..."
> 
> Most mental illnesses [ Psychosis ] is accompanied by related psychotic disorders and  symptoms thereof- *homoseuxality is no exception*
> 
> Homosexual study participants ... experienced a period during which they had psychotic perceptions or thoughts  says Mr Gevonden, leading author of the paper. ...  depressive thoughts, or excessive drinking, or as in this case psychotic symptoms....hallucinations, .. hearing voices, or delusions, such as the idea that one is constantly being followed. Even if they are not serious and no help is sought, *psychotic symptoms have predictive value for the onset of a psychotic disorder such as schizophrenia.* Such disorders often result in the need for long-term care and are demanding to both the patient and his environment."   Sexual minorities vulnerable to psychosis? « Medicine « Cambridge Journals Blog



(Copied from your link)
"possibly this is due to experiences of discrimination and social*exclusion."-Rivierduinen, Maastricht University

They seem to support that social negativity may create this psychosis and not homosexualityin and of itself 




GreenBean said:


> 1.} *Netherlands Mental Health Survey and Incidence Studies  Sexual minority status and psychotic symptoms Jan. 2014*
> 
> The aim of this study was to examine whether sexual minorities are at increased risk for psychotic symptoms and to explore mediating pathways. The study concluded that homosexual orientation is most definitely associated with psychotic symptoms and further states that the study adds to the growing body of literature linking minority status with psychosis and other mental health problems. In an effort to remain politically correct the paper presented goes on to suggest that their findings are possibly due to experiences of discrimination and social exclusion.
> 
> The risk of psychotic symptoms is two to three times greater among homosexual participants in the study than among heterosexual participants. The researchers found this result using data from the Netherlands Mental Health and Incidence Studies (NEMESIS-1 and NEMESIS-2), two large-scale epidemiological studies which aim to investigate how often mental health problems occur in the general population.   Sexual minority status and psychotic symptoms


(Copied from your link)
"Childhood trauma, bullying and experience of discrimination partly mediated the association."-NEMESIS

Partly mediated the association? How much?




GreenBean said:


> 2.} *Dr. Apu Chakraborty of University College London, UK.*
> 
> This Study explored the rates of mental disorder among 7,403 adults living in the UK, whose details were obtained from the Adult Psychiatric Morbidity Survey 2007. Rates of depression, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, phobia, self-harm, suicidal thoughts, and alcohol and drug dependence were significantly higher in homosexual respondents.  Hookers "study" only used two groups of 30 men each, and the homosexual respondents were hand picked, where as in the University College Study they were not.  Higher Risk of Mental Health Problems for Homosexuals
> 
> Elevated levels of psychiatric problems in nonheterosexual people are "very worrying and call not only for a response by professionals in primary care and mental health services but also efforts at prevention," Apu Chakraborty, PhD, MSc, MRCPsych, of the Department of Mental Health Sciences, University College London, United Kingdom, and colleagues conclude.  Medscape.com


(Copied from your link)
"This lends support to the idea that people who feel discriminated against experience social stressors, which in turn increases their risk of experiencing mental health problems, -Dr. Chakraborty

So the increase in psychosis might not be linked directly to homosexuality at all.



GreenBean said:


> Here's another informed source for you -Jeffrey Santinover
> 
> Santinover has been called as an expert witness in court cases, much to the dismay of the Gay lobby. He has been asked to assess briefs being submitted to state and the U.S. Supreme Courts, *Satinover has had the chance to tear apart hundreds of research papers offered as evidence by gay agenda activists who had been invited to represent the views of the major mental-health associations.*  Among Dr. Santinover other works are Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth , and The Quantum Brain: The Search for Freedom and the Next Generation of Man .
> 
> And lets have Dr. Richard Fitzgibbons chime in - Fitzgibbons has stated said that the American Psychiatric Association (APA) has continuously ignored evidence that homosexuality is a manifestation of a psychiatric disorder....Fitzgibbons, co-author of a Helping Clients Forgive, , said the .... It is being increasingly proven that children have a dire psychological need for a stable family with a mother and father, something the gay lifestyle simply can not accommodate.* Fitzgibbons presented a list of psychological difficulties endured by homosexuals. Which includes, but is certainly not limited to major depression, suicidal tendencies, sever anxiety disorders, addiction and substance abuse, lowered self-esteem ,inability to maintain committed relationships.*



The studies above seem to point out that these psychological issues aren't directly linked to homosexuality.


----------



## GreenBean

Inevitable said:


> .



*Inevitable :* Loony bird title line on the page attempting to debunk the APA: "Some homosexuals have gone beyond the plane of defensiveness and now argue that deviancy is a noble preferable way of life." It's a conspiracy theory.

*GreenBean: *  I see it was way too advanced for you , so *you copped out by resorting to your standard refusal to address content* that you either can not comprehend or that flies in the face of your opinions - and just when I was starting to think that there might be hope for you tsk tsk tsk.... 

*GreenBean: * Uhhh ... no ...sorry pal, hurt to burst your bubble , but the APA is the laughing stock of the scientific community - they become less and less credible each passing day.

*Inevitable :* I don't care for your opinions of the APA, only facts.


*GreenBean: * *The fact is you really don't care for my facts only your opinions *--- Now you are using the *circle jerk *- somewhat similar to Muhammed Alis  "rope a dope"  - sorry pal - but that's how we got to where we are in this discusiion  = you were unable to refute previosly posted factual evidence - scroll back -  and get back to me when you have something of substance .

*GreenBean: * No, not my opinion itself, but the facts I presented m and others have also presented most certainly does.  -- you are using the *circle jerk *- somewhat similar to Muhammed Alis  "rope a dope"  - sorry pal - but that's how we got to where we are in this discusiion  = you were unable to refute previosly posted factual evidence - scroll back -  and get back to me when you have something of substance .

*Inevitable :* Yes it is your opinion and you presentedno facts on it. 

*GreenBean: * *The fact is you really don't care for my facts only your opinions * you deflect and "circle jerk" any facts presented that fly in the face of your opinions.

*Inevitable :* Sexual disphoria is disphoria with your sex. This doesn't effect homosexuals, it's something linked to transgender people. 

*GreenBean: * It is also relevant to transgender queers - but in that case it is called gender dysphoria. Sexual Dysphoria more correctly refers to  homosexuals - I previously gave you the definition of the word dysphoria - you chose to ignore because in your warped little mind - your opinions even  outweigh the english language - you need help little fella .

From Cambridge - "The risk of psychotic symptoms is two to three times greater among homosexual ..."

Most mental illnesses [ Psychosis ] is accompanied by related psychotic disorders and symptoms thereof- homoseuxality is no exception

*GreenBean: *


> &#8220;Homosexual study participants ... experienced a period during which they had psychotic perceptions or thoughts&#8221; says Mr Gevonden, leading author of the paper. &#8220;... depressive thoughts, or excessive drinking, or as in this case psychotic symptoms....hallucinations, .. hearing voices, or delusions, such as the idea that one is constantly being followed. Even if they are not serious and no help is sought, psychotic symptoms have predictive value for the onset of a psychotic disorder such as schizophrenia. Such disorders often result in the need for long-term care and are demanding to both the patient and his environment." Sexual minorities vulnerable to psychosis? « Medicine « Cambridge Journals Blog



*Inevitable :*  (Copied from your link)
"*possibly *this is due to experiences of discrimination and social*exclusion."-Rivierduinen, Maastricht University

They seem to support that social negativity may create this psychosis and not homosexualityin and of itself 

*GreenBean: *  Thats a  valid opinion , but only an opinion and the key word is *possibly*  - the pre-requisites of the Doctors academic survival required that he pay homage to the Lords of politiocal correctness - but you *NEVER* will see him stating such as a fact .  It reminds of the Seinfeld show - whenever queers were mentioned they would insert the line "Not that there's anything wronmg with that "






*Inevitable :*  The studies above seem to point out that these psychological issues aren't directly linked to homosexuality.

*GreenBean: *   Okay , so that's a good start ... but finish what you wanted to say - back up your opinions [Oh I forgot it's *Inevitable *]


----------



## Inevitable

GreenBean said:


> address content


I addressed content. Repeatedlyloony bird references some gay agenda bogeyman.




> The fact is you really don't care for my facts only your opinions.


You STILL have presented no facts.


> No, not my opinion itself, but the facts I presented


Just because you keep insisting your opinions. are facts doesn'tmake it so. 



> The fact is you really don't care for my facts


 You presentedno facts. 


> Sexual Dysphoria more correctly refers to  homosexuals


No it does not. It refersto people dysphoric with their sex. 





> I previously gave you the definition of the word dysphoria


Yet you still refuse to understand the meaning. - 





> Thats a  valid opinion , but only an opinion and the key word is *possibly*  - the pre-requisites of the Doctors academic survival required that he pay homage to the Lords of politiocal correctness - but you *NEVER* will see him stating such as a fact


That crank conspiracy theory sure it's handy. Anytime doctorssay something that doesn't support your prejudice, it mustbe that darned omnipresent political agenda pulling imaginary levers behind the scenes.


----------



## emilynghiem

healthmyths said:


> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.



healthmyths
Because of the ABUSES and FRAUDS in the guise of conversion and reparative therapy, this has twisted and turned the public away from natural spiritual healing which is effective and voluntary.

Complaints of Frauds and Abuses that have shut down corrupt organizations:

 Ex-Gay Conversion Therapy Group Rebrands Stresses Rights of Clients Mother Jones

Ex-Gay Activists Demand Apology From Exodus International Right Wing Watch

Here is the approach to effective healing ministries that get sidelined and censored:
How To Defeat Homosexual Activists 101 A Real Education Page 4 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
(because of the fear that "all such therapy is fraud" which only applies to the abusive malpractice)

More testimonies of people who have changed:
People Can Change - An alternative healing response to unwanted homosexual desires.
De Blasio s wife Chirlane McCray talks about lesbian past - NY Daily News

How Exodus International Should Apologize to the Ex-Gay Community Voice of the Voiceless

_Dear Ex-Gay Community,_

_We are sorry that the leadership of Exodus International didn’t seek out professional psychotherapy to understand the roots of our homosexual feelings. Instead, we merely repressed our urges and hoped that God would take them away if we prayed hard enough._

_*We also deeply regret that we didn’t pursue advanced degrees in counseling or psychology so we could truly help others who were struggling with unwanted SSA resolve their issues and experience real change.*_

_Now that we look back at our leadership, relying on clichés, slogans, and simplistic answers to complex sexual orientation issues was not the way to go. Rather than embrace cutting-edge therapeutic techniques that were developed to help individuals heal the wounds that lead to SSA, we are deeply saddened that we attacked our allies in the psychological community, most of who are also people of faith. Out of fear and ignorance, we failed to embrace solutions that could bring about real and lasting change._

_We would like to ask for forgiveness for making statements, pronouncement, and judgments on behalf of dozens of Exodus member-ministries across the USA, instead of seeking their feedback and making decisions based on a consensus. In essence, our Board of Directors behaved as an oligarchy instead of a democracy. When the members we ruled over didn’t like our direction, instead of humbly listening to them, we promptly dismissed them, arrogantly condemned them, and swiftly exiled them._

_Finally, we are sorry that once we realized we were unable to effectively lead, we did not appoint more qualified individuals to take over Exodus International. Instead, our narcissism allowed us to mistakenly believe that if we couldn’t help individuals who experience SSA pursue heterosexuality, than no one could or should._

_How foolish of us to believe that our member ministries would stand aside and allow us to destroy their work and reputations. We are sorry that our bad leadership has fragmented the ex-gay community and caused over half of our member ministries to leave and form the Restored Hope Network. We also regret that this has created a great financial difficulty for our organization and caused many of us unemployment._

_Yours truly,_

_Exodus International Board of Directors_

_PS: Please forgive Alan Chambers for leaking confidential e-mails of our former colleagues to a homosexual activist website who used it against them. That was really bad!_
In summary, because the ex-gay community will never receive this apology from the leadership of Exodus International, I will summarize as to what you can expect from them moving forward.

They will continue to struggle with their own homosexual feelings. They will continue to walk in blindness over the causes and meaning of their SSA, and therefore, lead others into similar confusion. Lastly, they will continue to (try to) be buddies with homosexual activists while rejecting the truth that ex-gay ministries offer. How very sad that the largest and most influential ex-gay ministry has resorted to a popularity club for their narcissistic leaders.

_Christopher Doyle is the President and Co-Founder of Voice of the Voiceless, the only anti-defamation league for former homosexuals, individuals with unwanted same-sex attractions, and their families. For more information,visit: www.VoiceoftheVoiceless.info _

*Spread The Love, Share Our Article*


----------



## healthmyths

occupied said:


> I wonder if there is a conversion therapy for willfully ignorant people. A better question is why do you care who other people sleep with?


Why do the same sex couples care what I write unless they are afraid of the truth.


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## healthmyths

Zmrzlina said:


> What consenting individuals do in the bedroom is their business alone.


I agree... so why do the LBGT community care what I write or think?  It is my business.,,not theirs unless they are repression
conversion therapy....


----------



## emilynghiem

healthmyths said:


> occupied said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if there is a conversion therapy for willfully ignorant people. A better question is why do you care who other people sleep with?
> 
> 
> 
> Why do the same sex couples care what I write unless they are afraid of the truth.
Click to expand...


They are afraid of change. Same as the Christians who find out that even after people go through spiritual healing, some may remain homosexual. Or Atheist. Or come out transgender AFTER healing. So that goes against their theory that all such people can change. Some can, some cannot. Both sides are going to have to stretch to understand and include the cases that don't find their mindset. Both sides resist change and find it easier to blame the other for faults when both are biased.


----------



## healthmyths

rdean said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell us how easy is it so "learn" to suc..............
Click to expand...


Pretty easy for men!
Remember this line from full mental jacket movie???
Most men will NOT reject a blow job.  True.  
That doesn't make them candidates for the gay life style though!
The whole premise is men have millions of sperm so ejaculation is a good feeling whether done by man or woman!
So the majority of males who practice homosexuality is due to these men's desire for ejaculation.
The true "I gotta be me" homosexual as exemplified by the hugging and kissing of their same sex partner is probably a true feeling for their same sex partner and I have no problem with their activities...as long as it is not a PDA...just as I'm not comfortable
with hetrosexual PDA.

But I truly find it laughable how all these homosexual organizations plus medical, psychiatric,etc. are so fearful of these
conversion therapy groups!
If it doesn't work why are they concerned enough to write laws banning it?


----------



## healthmyths

emilynghiem said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> occupied said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if there is a conversion therapy for willfully ignorant people. A better question is why do you care who other people sleep with?
> 
> 
> 
> Why do the same sex couples care what I write unless they are afraid of the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are afraid of change. Same as the Christians who find out that even after people go through spiritual healing, some may remain homosexual. Or Atheist. Or come out transgender AFTER healing. So that goes against their theory that all such people can change. Some can, some cannot. Both sides are going to have to stretch to understand and include the cases that don't find their mindset. Both sides resist change and find it easier to blame the other for faults when both are biased.
Click to expand...


I agree with you!  So why are these anti-conversion groups so fearful then enough to write legislation?


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## healthmyths

hazlnut said:


> Why is the far-right afraid of progress?



That is funny.  The premise here is there are some homosexuals that no longer want that life style and need help which is  what
the conversion therapy offers.  How would the homosexual community like if legislation was written that made homosexuality illegal.
Wait... there was but these same hypocrites that WANT legislation to prevent conversion therapy picketed, etc. to get do away with
these laws.  Isn't that just so hypocritical??


----------



## healthmyths

GreenBean said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unlike conversion therapy  - this is an unproven theory with very litlle merit. There is miniscule scientific evidence to support it  - Not Zero evidence  -  but pretty darn close to zero.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If by "learned" - you are trying to say that someone taught them to be Gay - also highly unlikely.  But it is closer to the Truth than the first option in that it is an acquired trait , not an inherited one.
> 
> Mounting evidence tends to indicate the sexual dysphoria a/k/a homosexuality is the result of early chldhood trauma and oedipous issues.  Early Childhood trauma could be pre-pubescent or even pre-cognizant repressed memories of abuse or perceived abuse- sometimes of a sexual nature ,  sometimes not.
Click to expand...


"childhood trauma"...?
Then that is behavior modification...i.e. nurture versus nature.
"Childhood trauma behaviors" i.e. behaviors..not genetically predisposed.
Those are the only two ways exhibited behavior occurs.  Either you are predisposed or you learn.


----------



## emilynghiem

healthmyths said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> occupied said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if there is a conversion therapy for willfully ignorant people. A better question is why do you care who other people sleep with?
> 
> 
> 
> Why do the same sex couples care what I write unless they are afraid of the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are afraid of change. Same as the Christians who find out that even after people go through spiritual healing, some may remain homosexual. Or Atheist. Or come out transgender AFTER healing. So that goes against their theory that all such people can change. Some can, some cannot. Both sides are going to have to stretch to understand and include the cases that don't find their mindset. Both sides resist change and find it easier to blame the other for faults when both are biased.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree with you!  So why are these anti-conversion groups so fearful then enough to write legislation?
Click to expand...


It's overcompensation for not protecting youth from forced gender reassignment which is much more dangerous to push on teenagers, who haven't had the free choice of full information and therapy before making permanent decisions like surgery!

Boy Drugged By Lesbian Parents To Be A Girl US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


----------



## healthmyths

PoliticalTorch said:


> You ask why the Gay Community is afraid of Conversion Therapy? Well, it should be intuitively obvious to the most casual observer that the short answer to that is that it is DANGEROUS and that it does not work. Included are really good websites many with references to medical, psychiatric, psychological, and other associations and organizations that speak of the ineffectiveness of Gay Conversion Therapy. Please read ALL of them so that you can thoroughly understand why the Gay Community will not use that stuff.
> 
> Former Love In Action Director John Smid: Homosexuality Is Not a Choice and Can?t Be Changed | Truth Wins Out
> 
> The Lies and Dangers of Efforts to Change Sexual Orientation or Gender Identity | Resources | Human Rights Campaign
> 
> All 50 States Should Protect LGBT Youth From ?Ex-Gay? Charlatans | Truth Wins Out
> 
> 5 Things You Should Know About Gay Conversion Therapy



You said it is "DANGEROUS"... how?  What is the danger?

My simple point is if the majority of homosexuals are genetically predisposed... conversion therapy would not be helpful.
But if a small minority of homosexuals are because they have been exposed, i.e. young boys with same sex parents, 
young boys who are extremely sexually active need releases and gay behavior is synonymous with promiscuity.

There is absolutely NO logical rational reason to ban conversion therapy.  If there are physical/psychological dangers, those
should be regulated, but why if it doesn't work are homosexuals so angst about it?


----------



## healthmyths

TheJedi said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK. First of all there is a consensus amongst medical and mental health professionals that homosexuality is NOT a learned behavior. Is not about genetics either. It is about brain chemistry. The same place where gender dysphoria comes from. It can also manifest itself in people who have had traumatic childhood sexual abuse but, in most cases, it is about how one's brain is wired.
> 
> That being said, this link will educate you:
> 
> The Lies and Dangers of Efforts to Change Sexual Orientation or Gender Identity | Resources | Human Rights Campaign
Click to expand...


So the "wired" brain JUST happens to be wired "gay"??  Is that the point?  NO outside influences.  No special juices be drunk
that chemical alters the brain functions?   I mean explain how brain wiring just miraculously be straight or gay?
That is so funny!


----------



## healthmyths

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Needless to say gay Americans arent afraid of hateful, ignorant lies such as "conversion therapy," they appropriately and correctly denounce it along with other manifestations of animus toward homosexuals.


And I agree...they have every right to "denounce" conversion therapy!
Not in dispute here.  
What is though WHY when they wanted laws changed to allow homosexual behavior that's OK... but when free will conversion therapy electees want help they will be breaking the law, that is hypocritical!


----------



## emilynghiem

healthmyths said:


> If it doesn't work why are they concerned enough to write laws banning it?



What gets me is Liberal Democrats will defend the FREE CHOICE of ABORTION
and won't ban that, which is far more dangerous and risky of causing additional harmful complications.
How is the harm and damage of fraudulent conversion therapy abused to torture and scar people
any worse than the harms associated with abortion? The rightwing gets attacked for wanting to ban that!
Because "free choice" trumps trying to prevent the harms by banning it. Where's the "free choice" of conversion therapy?

drifter also pointed out if people defend teenagers "right to choose" abortion without consent of parents
what about teenagers' right of choice in other matters? this gets really crazy if you look at all the biases in different cases,
demanding choice in some cases but denying and banning free choice in others [including health care mandates]
Clearly it's all politicized. There are enough cases to prove that the Democrats should get sued for political discrimination.

You can rally behind your private political religion and beliefs all you want. Any group has the right to mandate policies for itself
and its own members that share those beliefs.
But if you abuse public office, public media to spread misrepresentation and misinformation, and legal and legislative
process to pass laws and rulings that exclude and discriminate against other people's beliefs by CREED,
that's conspiring to "violate civil rights" as a collective organization based on pushing discriminatory beliefs into law.


----------



## emilynghiem

healthmyths said:


> TheJedi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK. First of all there is a consensus amongst medical and mental health professionals that homosexuality is NOT a learned behavior. Is not about genetics either. It is about brain chemistry. The same place where gender dysphoria comes from. It can also manifest itself in people who have had traumatic childhood sexual abuse but, in most cases, it is about how one's brain is wired.
> 
> That being said, this link will educate you:
> 
> The Lies and Dangers of Efforts to Change Sexual Orientation or Gender Identity | Resources | Human Rights Campaign
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So the "wired" brain JUST happens to be wired "gay"??  Is that the point?  NO outside influences.  No special juices be drunk
> that chemical alters the brain functions?   I mean explain how brain wiring just miraculously be straight or gay?
> That is so funny!
Click to expand...


I find it is a spiritual process. And the govt cannot be abused to dictate what people can or cannot believe or practice with their spiritual process that is up to individual choice for each person.


----------



## healthmyths

Inevitable said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As is generally the case the OP on this thread has strayed off in several different directions. The OP being Conversion therapy.
> 
> Conversion therapy, Ex Gay or reparative therapy is primarily promoted by the mental health organization, NARTH. NARTH teaches that homosexuality is abnormal, unnatural,undesirable and changeable sexual behavior.
> 
> Complete data on conversion theapy is quite often withheld or suppressed. This makes the actual success rate of conversion therapy difficult to guage with any real degree of accuracy. However, several studies have revealed sufficient data which can be utilized to arrive at crude estimate of the conversion success rate:
> 
> Studies on conversion therapy for unwanted homosexual attractions yield varying success rates, ranging from 30%-70%, these rates are no different than success rates for other therapeutic practices - However the other therapeutic practices, such as substance abuse and assorted phobias and fetishes are not politically incorrect - criticizing the Gay Agenda and lifestyle is.
> 
> A key word in the preceding statement is "unwanted homosexual attractions"  - as is the case with other therapeutic practices - treating somebody who doesn't want to be treated and believes they are confortable with their malady is statistically doomed to failure
> 
> Being politically charged , politically correct science [Bad Science] will frequently totally disregard the facts,  and the agenda of he who shouts the loudest wins.
> 
> Socio-Fascists are currently blatantly promoting homosexuality, it is surmised as part of Big Brothers concerted effort to expedite the disintegration of the family structure and reduce the surplus population/ curtail population growth.
> 
> So Why is the gay community afraid of "conversion therapy"
> 
> It is an admission that their sexual dysphoria -homosexuality is abnormal and something which needs to be treated.  If there is no disease , there should not be a need for a cure .
> The succes of Conversion Therapy, is the failure of the Gay Agenda - it flies in the face of their ideological agenda and propaganda.
> 
> Conversion Therapy is far from the voo-doo quackery preached by the politically correct socio-fascists and useful idiots - it is a viable and effective method of treating a psychologiocally degenerative disease - Homosexuality
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Narth goes against all science on this subject.
> The Wild Reed: Debunking NARTH (Part I)
> 
> Basically they are trying to treat something that isn't a pathology. Homosexuality was removed from the DSM because there is no known pathology that exists in association with it. This hs been studied since the 1950s. I know you have a theory that gaypeople have taken over the APA or bought them out or something like that. Frankly there is no reason for me to believe that, so unless you have evidence, I will think of this like I do the builderburg group. Or Atlantis.
Click to expand...


The APA also approved prefrontal lobotomies as well as trepanning.  So they are not prone to following fads...i.e. supporting the "I gotta be me" crowd.

In 2008, the organizers of an APA panel on the relationship between religion and homosexuality canceled the event after gay activists objected that *"conversion therapists and their supporters on the religious right use these appearances as a public relations event to try and legitimize what they do.*"[64][65]

Conversion therapy - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## healthmyths

emilynghiem said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it doesn't work why are they concerned enough to write laws banning it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What gets me is Liberal Democrats will defend the FREE CHOICE of ABORTION
> and won't ban that, which is far more dangerous and risky of causing additional harmful complications.
> How is the harm and damage of fraudulent conversion therapy abused to torture and scar people
> any worse than the harms associated with abortion? The rightwing gets attacked for wanting to ban that!
> Because "free choice" trumps trying to prevent the harms by banning it. Where's the "free choice" of conversion therapy?
> 
> drifter also pointed out if people defend teenagers "right to choose" abortion without consent of parents
> what about teenagers' right of choice in other matters? this gets really crazy if you look at all the biases in different cases,
> demanding choice in some cases but denying and banning free choice in others [including health care mandates]
> Clearly it's all politicized. There are enough cases to prove that the Democrats should get sued for political discrimination.
> 
> You can rally behind your private political religion and beliefs all you want. Any group has the right to mandate policies for itself
> and its own members that share those beliefs.
> But if you abuse public office, public media to spread misrepresentation and misinformation, and legal and legislative
> process to pass laws and rulings that exclude and discriminate against other people's beliefs by CREED,
> that's conspiring to "violate civil rights" as a collective organization based on pushing discriminatory beliefs into law.
Click to expand...


PLUS  given this speech by the founder of Planned Parenthood, why would any conscientious gay be so quick to support abortions if they read this:
Facts about Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood:

The entire operation [Sanger's 1939 Negro Project] then was a ruse--a manipulative attempt to get Blacks to cooperate in their own elimination.
The project was quite successful. Its genocidal intentions were carefully camouflaged beneath several layers of condescending social-service rhetoric and organizational expertise. . . Soon clinics throughout the South were distributing contraceptives to Blacks and Margaret's dream of discouraging "the defective and diseased elements of humanity' from their 'reckless and irresponsible swarming and spawning" was at last being fulfilled.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/prolife/ppracism.txt

Tonight, Planned Parenthood Federation of America (PPFA) proudly honored reproductive health and rights advocates who have made significant contributions to the advancement of women’s health care through their work promoting prevention and family planning, and presented its highest honor, the PPFA Margaret Sanger Award, to U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton. Secretary Clinton received this award for her unwavering support of women’s health and rights throughout her public service career. Actor America Ferrera co-hosted the event with PPFA President Cecile Richards.  - See more at: Planned Parenthood Honors Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton for Her Commitment to Women s Health Care Planned Parenthood

In fact Planned Parenthood founders hated Black children so much their founder said the following:
Like Adolf Hitler, Margaret Sanger considered herself to be part of a  genetically superior elite who had to protect themselves against "hereditary  taints."    
She set out to start a "New  Race"  -  "A Race of Thoroughbreds."    
In 1921, Sanger founded the American Birth Control League, which was renamed "Planned  Parenthood" in 1942.    
In 1952 she helped found the International Planned Parenthood Federation  (IPPF), serving as its first president until 1959.    
Even today, Planned Parenthood proudly proclaims Margaret Sanger as its "visionary"  founder.
 The Nuremberg Files Abortion Birth Control Margaret Sanger Founder Planned Parenthood Lancaster PA Pa Abortion Clinic Birth Control Holocaust Murder Nazi German Dictator Adolf Hitler German Eugenics Murder Nazi Germany


YET......President Obama became the first sitting President to address Planned Parenthood this week, speaking to roughly a thousand supporters at the organization’s national conference in Washington, D.C.
The President lauded the organization’s efforts in helping pass Obamacare, particularly the preventative services mandate that is currently trampling on many employers’ fundamental freedom by forcing them to provide and pay for coverage of abortion-inducing drugs and contraception in their health plans.
Obama Vows Support for Planned Parenthood

So this attempt to help people who DON"T want the homosexual lifestyle change is small change compared to the support by obviously the LIP Homosexuals ignorance about abortion, planned parenthood, ethnic cleansing and they support that???


----------



## rightwinger

Gays have been through centuries of "conversion therapies". They often consisted of beatings, banishment and lynching

For some reason, they find them offensive


----------



## healthmyths

rightwinger said:


> Gays have been through centuries of "conversion therapies". They often consisted of beatings, banishment and lynching
> 
> For some reason, they find them offensive



So if they have been so badly treated it is OK then to treat others the same way?
so much for "compassion"  feeling people.


----------



## rightwinger

healthmyths said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gays have been through centuries of "conversion therapies". They often consisted of beatings, banishment and lynching
> 
> For some reason, they find them offensive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if they have been so badly treated it is OK then to treat others the same way?
> so much for "compassion"  feeling people.
Click to expand...

I have no idea what you are babbling about


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

rightwinger said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gays have been through centuries of "conversion therapies". They often consisted of beatings, banishment and lynching
> 
> For some reason, they find them offensive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if they have been so badly treated it is OK then to treat others the same way?
> so much for "compassion"  feeling people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have no idea what you are babbling about
Click to expand...

Neither does he.


----------



## Inevitable

healthmyths said:


> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As is generally the case the OP on this thread has strayed off in several different directions. The OP being Conversion therapy.
> 
> Conversion therapy, Ex Gay or reparative therapy is primarily promoted by the mental health organization, NARTH. NARTH teaches that homosexuality is abnormal, unnatural,undesirable and changeable sexual behavior.
> 
> Complete data on conversion theapy is quite often withheld or suppressed. This makes the actual success rate of conversion therapy difficult to guage with any real degree of accuracy. However, several studies have revealed sufficient data which can be utilized to arrive at crude estimate of the conversion success rate:
> 
> Studies on conversion therapy for unwanted homosexual attractions yield varying success rates, ranging from 30%-70%, these rates are no different than success rates for other therapeutic practices - However the other therapeutic practices, such as substance abuse and assorted phobias and fetishes are not politically incorrect - criticizing the Gay Agenda and lifestyle is.
> 
> A key word in the preceding statement is "unwanted homosexual attractions"  - as is the case with other therapeutic practices - treating somebody who doesn't want to be treated and believes they are confortable with their malady is statistically doomed to failure
> 
> Being politically charged , politically correct science [Bad Science] will frequently totally disregard the facts,  and the agenda of he who shouts the loudest wins.
> 
> Socio-Fascists are currently blatantly promoting homosexuality, it is surmised as part of Big Brothers concerted effort to expedite the disintegration of the family structure and reduce the surplus population/ curtail population growth.
> 
> So Why is the gay community afraid of "conversion therapy"
> 
> It is an admission that their sexual dysphoria -homosexuality is abnormal and something which needs to be treated.  If there is no disease , there should not be a need for a cure .
> The succes of Conversion Therapy, is the failure of the Gay Agenda - it flies in the face of their ideological agenda and propaganda.
> 
> Conversion Therapy is far from the voo-doo quackery preached by the politically correct socio-fascists and useful idiots - it is a viable and effective method of treating a psychologiocally degenerative disease - Homosexuality
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Narth goes against all science on this subject.
> The Wild Reed: Debunking NARTH (Part I)
> 
> Basically they are trying to treat something that isn't a pathology. Homosexuality was removed from the DSM because there is no known pathology that exists in association with it. This hs been studied since the 1950s. I know you have a theory that gaypeople have taken over the APA or bought them out or something like that. Frankly there is no reason for me to believe that, so unless you have evidence, I will think of this like I do the builderburg group. Or Atlantis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The APA also approved prefrontal lobotomies as well as trepanning.  So they are not prone to following fads...i.e. supporting the "I gotta be me" crowd.
> 
> In 2008, the organizers of an APA panel on the relationship between religion and homosexuality canceled the event after gay activists objected that *"conversion therapists and their supporters on the religious right use these appearances as a public relations event to try and legitimize what they do.*"[64][65]
> 
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

So you think the Apa is not credible because they don't support a so called "therapy" that has no clinical trials, no thesis, no method, and no understanding about the subject they intend to meddle with?

If they could legitimize it, it would be legitimate. Can we change somebody's sexual orientation? What purpose would there be for doing so? So far the misnamed "conversion therapy" has what kind of success rate?

I'm sorry, I don't buy the conspiracy theory that the Apa is controlled by the gays. 

If they supported any kind of church provided therapy they would lose credibility. That is wise of them not to.

Any "therapist" that supports converting people's sexuality, can start an association of their own and then battle for legitimacy. I wish them luck.


----------



## Inevitable

healthmyths said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gays have been through centuries of "conversion therapies". They often consisted of beatings, banishment and lynching
> 
> For some reason, they find them offensive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if they have been so badly treated it is OK then to treat others the same way?
> so much for "compassion"  feeling people.
Click to expand...

I don't see how gay people in general are treating others badly. So no it's not okay or relevant.


----------



## Delta4Embassy

healthmyths said:


> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.



Ask yourself how you'd feel about being locked up somewhere and people tried to make you gay.


----------



## healthmyths

Delta4Embassy said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ask yourself how you'd feel about being locked up somewhere and people tried to make you gay.
Click to expand...


Called an intervention and done ALL the time with smokers,drug users,etc. so?


----------



## Dogmaphobe

rightwinger said:


> I have no idea what you are babbling about




He is speaking of all those well-known straight to gay conversion camps where parents of children who do act a little too straight turn them over to a bunch of sadistic quacks who quote various Oscar Wilde passages as justification for torturing them to the point they think they are really gay.

It's all over the news, you know.


----------



## healthmyths

Dogmaphobe said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea what you are babbling about
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is speaking of all those well-known straight to gay conversion camps where parents of children who do act a little too straight turn them over to a bunch of sadistic quacks who quote various Oscar Wilde passages as justification for torturing them to the point they think they are really gay.
> 
> It's all over the news, you know.
Click to expand...

It's ALL over the GAY NEWS and MSM  Yes no question.
And once again blowing WAY WAY out of proportion!
You as most LIPs seem to think if it is written it is true!
Having been in journalism classes it is an old adage that "If it bleeds it leads"!
Do you really think ALL the conversion camps ALL have a bunch of SADISTS?  Really?  YOU really think ALL people that want to 
help people that ask for help are SADISTS???
It totally proves how successful the brainwashing of LIPs has been that you think ALL conversion camps are sadistic.
OK... using YOUR assumptions how about this picture of ALL people in the GAY community.  ARE all gays like this???


----------



## Inevitable

healthmyths said:


> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ask yourself how you'd feel about being locked up somewhere and people tried to make you gay.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Called an intervention and done ALL the time with smokers,drug users,etc. so?
Click to expand...

Smoking and drug use is a bad habit, or an addiction. Being homosexual isn't.


----------



## Inevitable

healthmyths said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea what you are babbling about
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is speaking of all those well-known straight to gay conversion camps where parents of children who do act a little too straight turn them over to a bunch of sadistic quacks who quote various Oscar Wilde passages as justification for torturing them to the point they think they are really gay.
> 
> It's all over the news, you know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's ALL over the GAY NEWS and MSM  Yes no question.
> And once again blowing WAY WAY out of proportion!
> You as most LIPs seem to think if it is written it is true!
> Having been in journalism classes it is an old adage that "If it bleeds it leads"!
> Do you really think ALL the conversion camps ALL have a bunch of SADISTS?  Really?  YOU really think ALL people that want to
> help people that ask for help are SADISTS???
> It totally proves how successful the brainwashing of LIPs has been that you think ALL conversion camps are sadistic.
> OK... using YOUR assumptions how about this picture of ALL people in the GAY community.  ARE all gays like this???
> View attachment 38216
Click to expand...

Of course they aren't all sadistic. But I don't think any of them operate in any sound psychological theory, or any psychological theory at all 

It isn't really understood why some people are homosexual. Thus it isn't understood that sexuality can be converted from one orientation to the other. 

They may be perfectly healthy human beings going into it and come out with a complex. We just don't know.

The most sound research I've seen in why some people are homosexual, is due to epimarks in the womb. I'm not saying it's genetic, just that there is a process that occurs in the womb that may influence it. If this turns out to be the major cause of it, conversion therapy is extremely unethical.


----------



## healthmyths

Inevitable said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea what you are babbling about
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is speaking of all those well-known straight to gay conversion camps where parents of children who do act a little too straight turn them over to a bunch of sadistic quacks who quote various Oscar Wilde passages as justification for torturing them to the point they think they are really gay.
> 
> It's all over the news, you know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's ALL over the GAY NEWS and MSM  Yes no question.
> And once again blowing WAY WAY out of proportion!
> You as most LIPs seem to think if it is written it is true!
> Having been in journalism classes it is an old adage that "If it bleeds it leads"!
> Do you really think ALL the conversion camps ALL have a bunch of SADISTS?  Really?  YOU really think ALL people that want to
> help people that ask for help are SADISTS???
> It totally proves how successful the brainwashing of LIPs has been that you think ALL conversion camps are sadistic.
> OK... using YOUR assumptions how about this picture of ALL people in the GAY community.  ARE all gays like this???
> View attachment 38216
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course they aren't all sadistic. But I don't think any of them operate in any sound psychological theory, or any psychological theory at all
> 
> It isn't really understood why some people are homosexual. Thus it isn't understood that sexuality can be converted from one orientation to the other.
> 
> They may be perfectly healthy human beings going into it and come out with a complex. We just don't know.
> 
> The most sound research I've seen in why some people are homosexual, is due to epimarks in the womb. I'm not saying it's genetic, just that there is a process that occurs in the womb that may influence it. If this turns out to be the major cause of it, conversion therapy is extremely unethical.
Click to expand...


So from your position you theorize nature always wins out over nurture?
This is contrary to ...
These epigenetic tags *react to stimuli presented from the outside world. It adjusts specific genes in the genome to respond to humans' rapidly changing environment. *
Epigenetic theories of homosexuality - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
That sounds like learned behavior modification, i.e. NURTURE.

Based on your antagonism against help for people that don't want to be homosexual, would you be adverse to the following?

Following a late 2012 publication on possible epigenetic origins of homosexuality,[10] some people[_who?_] have suggested that it might be possible to alter one's sexual orientation with epigenetic therapy,[11] similarly to treatment of diabetes, cancer or schizophrenia. Prenatal hormone therapy may also be used to reduce the probability of homosexuality in females by compensating the effects of androgen overexposure.[12]
Epigenetic theories of homosexuality - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## Inevitable

healthmyths said:


> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea what you are babbling about
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is speaking of all those well-known straight to gay conversion camps where parents of children who do act a little too straight turn them over to a bunch of sadistic quacks who quote various Oscar Wilde passages as justification for torturing them to the point they think they are really gay.
> 
> It's all over the news, you know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's ALL over the GAY NEWS and MSM  Yes no question.
> And once again blowing WAY WAY out of proportion!
> You as most LIPs seem to think if it is written it is true!
> Having been in journalism classes it is an old adage that "If it bleeds it leads"!
> Do you really think ALL the conversion camps ALL have a bunch of SADISTS?  Really?  YOU really think ALL people that want to
> help people that ask for help are SADISTS???
> It totally proves how successful the brainwashing of LIPs has been that you think ALL conversion camps are sadistic.
> OK... using YOUR assumptions how about this picture of ALL people in the GAY community.  ARE all gays like this???
> View attachment 38216
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course they aren't all sadistic. But I don't think any of them operate in any sound psychological theory, or any psychological theory at all
> 
> It isn't really understood why some people are homosexual. Thus it isn't understood that sexuality can be converted from one orientation to the other.
> 
> They may be perfectly healthy human beings going into it and come out with a complex. We just don't know.
> 
> The most sound research I've seen in why some people are homosexual, is due to epimarks in the womb. I'm not saying it's genetic, just that there is a process that occurs in the womb that may influence it. If this turns out to be the major cause of it, conversion therapy is extremely unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So from your position you theorize nature always wins out over nurture?
> This is contrary to ...
> These epigenetic tags *react to stimuli presented from the outside world. It adjusts specific genes in the genome to respond to humans' rapidly changing environment. *
> Epigenetic theories of homosexuality - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> That sounds like learned behavior modification, i.e. NURTURE.
Click to expand...

Learned behavior in the womb? That's a bit far fetched.



> Based on your antagonism against help for people that don't want to be homosexual, would you be adverse to the following?


I'm not against helping them. I just don't really think so called "therapies" that operate on no science are the way to do that.



> Following a late 2012 publication on possible epigenetic origins of homosexuality,[10] some people[_who?_] have suggested that it might be possible to alter one's sexual orientation with epigenetic therapy,[11] similarly to treatment of diabetes, cancer or schizophrenia. Prenatal hormone therapy may also be used to reduce the probability of homosexuality in females by compensating the effects of androgen overexposure.[12]
> Epigenetic theories of homosexuality - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


This would have to occur while the woman is pregnant. It wouldn't do anything for people who are already born.

But I don't have a problem with parents doing something like this while they are pregnant.


----------



## healthmyths

Inevitable said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea what you are babbling about
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is speaking of all those well-known straight to gay conversion camps where parents of children who do act a little too straight turn them over to a bunch of sadistic quacks who quote various Oscar Wilde passages as justification for torturing them to the point they think they are really gay.
> 
> It's all over the news, you know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's ALL over the GAY NEWS and MSM  Yes no question.
> And once again blowing WAY WAY out of proportion!
> You as most LIPs seem to think if it is written it is true!
> Having been in journalism classes it is an old adage that "If it bleeds it leads"!
> Do you really think ALL the conversion camps ALL have a bunch of SADISTS?  Really?  YOU really think ALL people that want to
> help people that ask for help are SADISTS???
> It totally proves how successful the brainwashing of LIPs has been that you think ALL conversion camps are sadistic.
> OK... using YOUR assumptions how about this picture of ALL people in the GAY community.  ARE all gays like this???
> View attachment 38216
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course they aren't all sadistic. But I don't think any of them operate in any sound psychological theory, or any psychological theory at all
> 
> It isn't really understood why some people are homosexual. Thus it isn't understood that sexuality can be converted from one orientation to the other.
> 
> They may be perfectly healthy human beings going into it and come out with a complex. We just don't know.
> 
> The most sound research I've seen in why some people are homosexual, is due to epimarks in the womb. I'm not saying it's genetic, just that there is a process that occurs in the womb that may influence it. If this turns out to be the major cause of it, conversion therapy is extremely unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So from your position you theorize nature always wins out over nurture?
> This is contrary to ...
> These epigenetic tags *react to stimuli presented from the outside world. It adjusts specific genes in the genome to respond to humans' rapidly changing environment. *
> Epigenetic theories of homosexuality - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> That sounds like learned behavior modification, i.e. NURTURE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Learned behavior in the womb? That's a bit far fetched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Based on your antagonism against help for people that don't want to be homosexual, would you be adverse to the following?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not against helping them. I just don't really think so called "therapies" that operate on no science are the way to do that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following a late 2012 publication on possible epigenetic origins of homosexuality,[10] some people[_who?_] have suggested that it might be possible to alter one's sexual orientation with epigenetic therapy,[11] similarly to treatment of diabetes, cancer or schizophrenia. Prenatal hormone therapy may also be used to reduce the probability of homosexuality in females by compensating the effects of androgen overexposure.[12]
> Epigenetic theories of homosexuality - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This would have to occur while the woman is pregnant. It wouldn't do anything for people who are already born.
> 
> But I don't have a problem with parents doing something like this while they are pregnant.
Click to expand...

But "epigenetic therapy" HAS BEEN suggested... not that it is proven...but conversion therapy HAS worked.

People Can Change Our Stories of Change


----------



## Inevitable

healthmyths said:


> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> He is speaking of all those well-known straight to gay conversion camps where parents of children who do act a little too straight turn them over to a bunch of sadistic quacks who quote various Oscar Wilde passages as justification for torturing them to the point they think they are really gay.
> 
> It's all over the news, you know.
> 
> 
> 
> It's ALL over the GAY NEWS and MSM  Yes no question.
> And once again blowing WAY WAY out of proportion!
> You as most LIPs seem to think if it is written it is true!
> Having been in journalism classes it is an old adage that "If it bleeds it leads"!
> Do you really think ALL the conversion camps ALL have a bunch of SADISTS?  Really?  YOU really think ALL people that want to
> help people that ask for help are SADISTS???
> It totally proves how successful the brainwashing of LIPs has been that you think ALL conversion camps are sadistic.
> OK... using YOUR assumptions how about this picture of ALL people in the GAY community.  ARE all gays like this???
> View attachment 38216
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course they aren't all sadistic. But I don't think any of them operate in any sound psychological theory, or any psychological theory at all
> 
> It isn't really understood why some people are homosexual. Thus it isn't understood that sexuality can be converted from one orientation to the other.
> 
> They may be perfectly healthy human beings going into it and come out with a complex. We just don't know.
> 
> The most sound research I've seen in why some people are homosexual, is due to epimarks in the womb. I'm not saying it's genetic, just that there is a process that occurs in the womb that may influence it. If this turns out to be the major cause of it, conversion therapy is extremely unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So from your position you theorize nature always wins out over nurture?
> This is contrary to ...
> These epigenetic tags *react to stimuli presented from the outside world. It adjusts specific genes in the genome to respond to humans' rapidly changing environment. *
> Epigenetic theories of homosexuality - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> That sounds like learned behavior modification, i.e. NURTURE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Learned behavior in the womb? That's a bit far fetched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Based on your antagonism against help for people that don't want to be homosexual, would you be adverse to the following?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not against helping them. I just don't really think so called "therapies" that operate on no science are the way to do that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following a late 2012 publication on possible epigenetic origins of homosexuality,[10] some people[_who?_] have suggested that it might be possible to alter one's sexual orientation with epigenetic therapy,[11] similarly to treatment of diabetes, cancer or schizophrenia. Prenatal hormone therapy may also be used to reduce the probability of homosexuality in females by compensating the effects of androgen overexposure.[12]
> Epigenetic theories of homosexuality - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This would have to occur while the woman is pregnant. It wouldn't do anything for people who are already born.
> 
> But I don't have a problem with parents doing something like this while they are pregnant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But "epigenetic therapy" HAS BEEN suggested... not that it is proven...but conversion therapy HAS worked.
> 
> People Can Change Our Stories of Change
> View attachment 38254
Click to expand...

That's anecdotal and it doesn't really prove anything. How did they change? Did they really change, are they just trying to show that they did, so forth.

I've read about these conversion therapies, there seems to be two types. One they talk somebody who thinks they are gay out of being gay. I find it a bit dubious. And the other is called aversion. They show the person homoerotic pictures while having them drink syrup if epicac. That just makes them feel nauseated while thinking about homosexual sex.

Nothing as far as theory.

What is epigenetic therapy? Does it work in an adult?


----------



## healthmyths

Inevitable said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's ALL over the GAY NEWS and MSM  Yes no question.
> And once again blowing WAY WAY out of proportion!
> You as most LIPs seem to think if it is written it is true!
> Having been in journalism classes it is an old adage that "If it bleeds it leads"!
> Do you really think ALL the conversion camps ALL have a bunch of SADISTS?  Really?  YOU really think ALL people that want to
> help people that ask for help are SADISTS???
> It totally proves how successful the brainwashing of LIPs has been that you think ALL conversion camps are sadistic.
> OK... using YOUR assumptions how about this picture of ALL people in the GAY community.  ARE all gays like this???
> View attachment 38216
> 
> 
> 
> Of course they aren't all sadistic. But I don't think any of them operate in any sound psychological theory, or any psychological theory at all
> 
> It isn't really understood why some people are homosexual. Thus it isn't understood that sexuality can be converted from one orientation to the other.
> 
> They may be perfectly healthy human beings going into it and come out with a complex. We just don't know.
> 
> The most sound research I've seen in why some people are homosexual, is due to epimarks in the womb. I'm not saying it's genetic, just that there is a process that occurs in the womb that may influence it. If this turns out to be the major cause of it, conversion therapy is extremely unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So from your position you theorize nature always wins out over nurture?
> This is contrary to ...
> These epigenetic tags *react to stimuli presented from the outside world. It adjusts specific genes in the genome to respond to humans' rapidly changing environment. *
> Epigenetic theories of homosexuality - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> That sounds like learned behavior modification, i.e. NURTURE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Learned behavior in the womb? That's a bit far fetched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Based on your antagonism against help for people that don't want to be homosexual, would you be adverse to the following?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not against helping them. I just don't really think so called "therapies" that operate on no science are the way to do that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following a late 2012 publication on possible epigenetic origins of homosexuality,[10] some people[_who?_] have suggested that it might be possible to alter one's sexual orientation with epigenetic therapy,[11] similarly to treatment of diabetes, cancer or schizophrenia. Prenatal hormone therapy may also be used to reduce the probability of homosexuality in females by compensating the effects of androgen overexposure.[12]
> Epigenetic theories of homosexuality - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This would have to occur while the woman is pregnant. It wouldn't do anything for people who are already born.
> 
> But I don't have a problem with parents doing something like this while they are pregnant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But "epigenetic therapy" HAS BEEN suggested... not that it is proven...but conversion therapy HAS worked.
> 
> People Can Change Our Stories of Change
> View attachment 38254
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's anecdotal and it doesn't really prove anything. How did they change? Did they really change, are they just trying to show that they did, so forth.
> 
> I've read about these conversion therapies, there seems to be two types. One they talk somebody who thinks they are gay out of being gay. I find it a bit dubious. And the other is called aversion. They show the person homoerotic pictures while having them drink syrup if epicac. That just makes them feel nauseated while thinking about homosexual sex.
> 
> Nothing as far as theory.
> 
> What is epigenetic therapy? Does it work in an adult?
Click to expand...


HEY... DID YOU NOT read my further posts!!!
THESE ARE ANECDOTAL!!!  NO question!
But you LIPs accepted all sorts of "anecdotals" about health care exceptions!  Obama has on the stage sob stories of people supposedly abused by those evil insurance companies..ANECDOTAL!!!
Even Obama in this story pulled an "anecdotal" that wasn't TRUE!
During the 2008 campaign, Obama frequently suggested his mother had to fight with her health-insurance company for treatment of her cancer because it considered her disease to be a pre-existing condition. In one of the presidential debates with GOP rival John McCain, Obama said: 

A Singular Woman: The Untold Story of Barack Obama’s mother.” Scott reviewed letters from Dunham to the CIGNA insurance company, and revealed the dispute was over disability coverage, not health insurance coverage (see pages 335-339).

Disability coverage will help replace wages lost to an illness. (Dunham received a base pay of $82,500, plus a housing allowance and a car, to work in Indonesia for Development Alternatives Inc. of Bethesda, according to Scott.) But that is different than health insurance coverage denied because of a pre-existing condition, which was a major part of the president’s health care law. 

Scott writes that Dunham, who died in 1995 of uterine and ovarian cancer, had health insurance that “covered most of the costs of her medical treatment…The hospital billed her insurance company directly, leaving Ann to pay only the deductible and any uncovered expenses, which, she said, came to several hundred dollars a month.”
So OK... Obama lied about that but here are again ANECDOTAL stories about conversion therapy successes!  EXCEPTIONS YES... but nevertheless you have
YOUR anecdotals and conversion therapy defenders should be able to have their own!
AGAIN I have to repeat... THESE ARE EXAMPLES of how ANECDOTALS were used to pass ACA... OK!!!
Here are ANECDOTALS why is that NOT OK???
FOLLOW THIS LINK!  People Can Change Our Stories of Change


----------



## Inevitable

healthmyths said:


> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course they aren't all sadistic. But I don't think any of them operate in any sound psychological theory, or any psychological theory at all
> 
> It isn't really understood why some people are homosexual. Thus it isn't understood that sexuality can be converted from one orientation to the other.
> 
> They may be perfectly healthy human beings going into it and come out with a complex. We just don't know.
> 
> The most sound research I've seen in why some people are homosexual, is due to epimarks in the womb. I'm not saying it's genetic, just that there is a process that occurs in the womb that may influence it. If this turns out to be the major cause of it, conversion therapy is extremely unethical.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So from your position you theorize nature always wins out over nurture?
> This is contrary to ...
> These epigenetic tags *react to stimuli presented from the outside world. It adjusts specific genes in the genome to respond to humans' rapidly changing environment. *
> Epigenetic theories of homosexuality - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> That sounds like learned behavior modification, i.e. NURTURE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Learned behavior in the womb? That's a bit far fetched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Based on your antagonism against help for people that don't want to be homosexual, would you be adverse to the following?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not against helping them. I just don't really think so called "therapies" that operate on no science are the way to do that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following a late 2012 publication on possible epigenetic origins of homosexuality,[10] some people[_who?_] have suggested that it might be possible to alter one's sexual orientation with epigenetic therapy,[11] similarly to treatment of diabetes, cancer or schizophrenia. Prenatal hormone therapy may also be used to reduce the probability of homosexuality in females by compensating the effects of androgen overexposure.[12]
> Epigenetic theories of homosexuality - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This would have to occur while the woman is pregnant. It wouldn't do anything for people who are already born.
> 
> But I don't have a problem with parents doing something like this while they are pregnant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But "epigenetic therapy" HAS BEEN suggested... not that it is proven...but conversion therapy HAS worked.
> 
> People Can Change Our Stories of Change
> View attachment 38254
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's anecdotal and it doesn't really prove anything. How did they change? Did they really change, are they just trying to show that they did, so forth.
> 
> I've read about these conversion therapies, there seems to be two types. One they talk somebody who thinks they are gay out of being gay. I find it a bit dubious. And the other is called aversion. They show the person homoerotic pictures while having them drink syrup if epicac. That just makes them feel nauseated while thinking about homosexual sex.
> 
> Nothing as far as theory.
> 
> What is epigenetic therapy? Does it work in an adult?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> HEY... DID YOU NOT read my further posts!!!
> THESE ARE ANECDOTAL!!!  NO question!
> But you LIPs accepted all sorts of "anecdotals" about health care exceptions!  Obama has on the stage sob stories of people supposedly abused by those evil insurance companies..ANECDOTAL!!!
> Even Obama in this story pulled an "anecdotal" that wasn't TRUE!
> During the 2008 campaign, Obama frequently suggested his mother had to fight with her health-insurance company for treatment of her cancer because it considered her disease to be a pre-existing condition. In one of the presidential debates with GOP rival John McCain, Obama said:
> 
> A Singular Woman: The Untold Story of Barack Obama’s mother.” Scott reviewed letters from Dunham to the CIGNA insurance company, and revealed the dispute was over disability coverage, not health insurance coverage (see pages 335-339).
> 
> Disability coverage will help replace wages lost to an illness. (Dunham received a base pay of $82,500, plus a housing allowance and a car, to work in Indonesia for Development Alternatives Inc. of Bethesda, according to Scott.) But that is different than health insurance coverage denied because of a pre-existing condition, which was a major part of the president’s health care law.
> 
> Scott writes that Dunham, who died in 1995 of uterine and ovarian cancer, had health insurance that “covered most of the costs of her medical treatment…The hospital billed her insurance company directly, leaving Ann to pay only the deductible and any uncovered expenses, which, she said, came to several hundred dollars a month.”
> So OK... Obama lied about that but here are again ANECDOTAL stories about conversion therapy successes!  EXCEPTIONS YES... but nevertheless you have
> YOUR anecdotals and conversion therapy defenders should be able to have their own!
> AGAIN I have to repeat... THESE ARE EXAMPLES of how ANECDOTALS were used to pass ACA... OK!!!
> Here are ANECDOTALS why is that NOT OK???
> FOLLOW THIS LINK!  People Can Change Our Stories of Change
Click to expand...

I know, and I don't support Obama, I didn't vote for him. The way ACA was jammed down our throats is wrong. Therefore because you compared it to your argument you are saying your argument is wrong.

I don't really care about platitudes. You made an assumption thinking I support our president and his actions. It was a bad move on your part. I'm conservative, I have only ever voted republican.

Anyway, back to the subject.

There is anecdotal evidence that says thus kind of "therapy" is harmful, causing psychological problems that can lead to suicide. And not taking those anecdotes seriously halting all "therapy" to verify, study and confirm or disprove, is an extreme breach of ethics.

No other psychological treatment, medical or any kind of treatment for any malady, supposed or existing, is that unethical. 

If all you can produce is a dozen anecdotes from people that didn't like their sexuality, it doesn't stand against the hundreds of them I have read that say this is harmful.

So, I'm sorry. "therapies" that don't take their patients well being into consideration are unethical.


----------



## healthmyths

Inevitable said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> So from your position you theorize nature always wins out over nurture?
> This is contrary to ...
> These epigenetic tags *react to stimuli presented from the outside world. It adjusts specific genes in the genome to respond to humans' rapidly changing environment. *
> Epigenetic theories of homosexuality - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> That sounds like learned behavior modification, i.e. NURTURE.
> 
> 
> 
> Learned behavior in the womb? That's a bit far fetched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Based on your antagonism against help for people that don't want to be homosexual, would you be adverse to the following?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not against helping them. I just don't really think so called "therapies" that operate on no science are the way to do that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following a late 2012 publication on possible epigenetic origins of homosexuality,[10] some people[_who?_] have suggested that it might be possible to alter one's sexual orientation with epigenetic therapy,[11] similarly to treatment of diabetes, cancer or schizophrenia. Prenatal hormone therapy may also be used to reduce the probability of homosexuality in females by compensating the effects of androgen overexposure.[12]
> Epigenetic theories of homosexuality - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This would have to occur while the woman is pregnant. It wouldn't do anything for people who are already born.
> 
> But I don't have a problem with parents doing something like this while they are pregnant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But "epigenetic therapy" HAS BEEN suggested... not that it is proven...but conversion therapy HAS worked.
> 
> People Can Change Our Stories of Change
> View attachment 38254
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's anecdotal and it doesn't really prove anything. How did they change? Did they really change, are they just trying to show that they did, so forth.
> 
> I've read about these conversion therapies, there seems to be two types. One they talk somebody who thinks they are gay out of being gay. I find it a bit dubious. And the other is called aversion. They show the person homoerotic pictures while having them drink syrup if epicac. That just makes them feel nauseated while thinking about homosexual sex.
> 
> Nothing as far as theory.
> 
> What is epigenetic therapy? Does it work in an adult?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> HEY... DID YOU NOT read my further posts!!!
> THESE ARE ANECDOTAL!!!  NO question!
> But you LIPs accepted all sorts of "anecdotals" about health care exceptions!  Obama has on the stage sob stories of people supposedly abused by those evil insurance companies..ANECDOTAL!!!
> Even Obama in this story pulled an "anecdotal" that wasn't TRUE!
> During the 2008 campaign, Obama frequently suggested his mother had to fight with her health-insurance company for treatment of her cancer because it considered her disease to be a pre-existing condition. In one of the presidential debates with GOP rival John McCain, Obama said:
> 
> A Singular Woman: The Untold Story of Barack Obama’s mother.” Scott reviewed letters from Dunham to the CIGNA insurance company, and revealed the dispute was over disability coverage, not health insurance coverage (see pages 335-339).
> 
> Disability coverage will help replace wages lost to an illness. (Dunham received a base pay of $82,500, plus a housing allowance and a car, to work in Indonesia for Development Alternatives Inc. of Bethesda, according to Scott.) But that is different than health insurance coverage denied because of a pre-existing condition, which was a major part of the president’s health care law.
> 
> Scott writes that Dunham, who died in 1995 of uterine and ovarian cancer, had health insurance that “covered most of the costs of her medical treatment…The hospital billed her insurance company directly, leaving Ann to pay only the deductible and any uncovered expenses, which, she said, came to several hundred dollars a month.”
> So OK... Obama lied about that but here are again ANECDOTAL stories about conversion therapy successes!  EXCEPTIONS YES... but nevertheless you have
> YOUR anecdotals and conversion therapy defenders should be able to have their own!
> AGAIN I have to repeat... THESE ARE EXAMPLES of how ANECDOTALS were used to pass ACA... OK!!!
> Here are ANECDOTALS why is that NOT OK???
> FOLLOW THIS LINK!  People Can Change Our Stories of Change
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know, and I don't support Obama, I didn't vote for him. The way ACA was jammed down our throats is wrong. Therefore because you compared it to your argument you are saying your argument is wrong.
> 
> I don't really care about platitudes. You made an assumption thinking I support our president and his actions. It was a bad move on your part. I'm conservative, I have only ever voted republican.
> 
> Anyway, back to the subject.
> 
> There is anecdotal evidence that says thus kind of "therapy" is harmful, causing psychological problems that can lead to suicide. And not taking those anecdotes seriously halting all "therapy" to verify, study and confirm or disprove, is an extreme breach of ethics.
> 
> No other psychological treatment, medical or any kind of treatment for any malady, supposed or existing, is that unethical.
> 
> If all you can produce is a dozen anecdotes from people that didn't like their sexuality, it doesn't stand against the hundreds of them I have read that say this is harmful.
> 
> So, I'm sorry. "therapies" that don't take their patients well being into consideration are unethical.
Click to expand...


Kind of like "pre-fontal lobotomies", "electro-shock" therapy.... they no longer are used but were they "unethical"?
Also, I am sure there are 100s of gay advocate stories saying how bad conversion therapy was.  No question.
But those too are anecdotal...just as my submissions which are by the way more then a dozen!

But the evidence is much more than anecdotal. In more than 50 years of research, including 48 studies we will reference here, there are data and published accounts documenting easily more than 3,000 cases of change from homosexual to heterosexual attraction, identity and functioning.
People Can Change Resources


----------



## rdean

healthmyths said:


> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.


Since Republicans keeps saying it's "learned", then it must be easy for them to "learn" to suck a d.....

Well, you know.


----------



## Inevitable

healthmyths said:


> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> Learned behavior in the womb? That's a bit far fetched.
> 
> I'm not against helping them. I just don't really think so called "therapies" that operate on no science are the way to do that.
> 
> This would have to occur while the woman is pregnant. It wouldn't do anything for people who are already born.
> 
> But I don't have a problem with parents doing something like this while they are pregnant.
> 
> 
> 
> But "epigenetic therapy" HAS BEEN suggested... not that it is proven...but conversion therapy HAS worked.
> 
> People Can Change Our Stories of Change
> View attachment 38254
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's anecdotal and it doesn't really prove anything. How did they change? Did they really change, are they just trying to show that they did, so forth.
> 
> I've read about these conversion therapies, there seems to be two types. One they talk somebody who thinks they are gay out of being gay. I find it a bit dubious. And the other is called aversion. They show the person homoerotic pictures while having them drink syrup if epicac. That just makes them feel nauseated while thinking about homosexual sex.
> 
> Nothing as far as theory.
> 
> What is epigenetic therapy? Does it work in an adult?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> HEY... DID YOU NOT read my further posts!!!
> THESE ARE ANECDOTAL!!!  NO question!
> But you LIPs accepted all sorts of "anecdotals" about health care exceptions!  Obama has on the stage sob stories of people supposedly abused by those evil insurance companies..ANECDOTAL!!!
> Even Obama in this story pulled an "anecdotal" that wasn't TRUE!
> During the 2008 campaign, Obama frequently suggested his mother had to fight with her health-insurance company for treatment of her cancer because it considered her disease to be a pre-existing condition. In one of the presidential debates with GOP rival John McCain, Obama said:
> 
> A Singular Woman: The Untold Story of Barack Obama’s mother.” Scott reviewed letters from Dunham to the CIGNA insurance company, and revealed the dispute was over disability coverage, not health insurance coverage (see pages 335-339).
> 
> Disability coverage will help replace wages lost to an illness. (Dunham received a base pay of $82,500, plus a housing allowance and a car, to work in Indonesia for Development Alternatives Inc. of Bethesda, according to Scott.) But that is different than health insurance coverage denied because of a pre-existing condition, which was a major part of the president’s health care law.
> 
> Scott writes that Dunham, who died in 1995 of uterine and ovarian cancer, had health insurance that “covered most of the costs of her medical treatment…The hospital billed her insurance company directly, leaving Ann to pay only the deductible and any uncovered expenses, which, she said, came to several hundred dollars a month.”
> So OK... Obama lied about that but here are again ANECDOTAL stories about conversion therapy successes!  EXCEPTIONS YES... but nevertheless you have
> YOUR anecdotals and conversion therapy defenders should be able to have their own!
> AGAIN I have to repeat... THESE ARE EXAMPLES of how ANECDOTALS were used to pass ACA... OK!!!
> Here are ANECDOTALS why is that NOT OK???
> FOLLOW THIS LINK!  People Can Change Our Stories of Change
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know, and I don't support Obama, I didn't vote for him. The way ACA was jammed down our throats is wrong. Therefore because you compared it to your argument you are saying your argument is wrong.
> 
> I don't really care about platitudes. You made an assumption thinking I support our president and his actions. It was a bad move on your part. I'm conservative, I have only ever voted republican.
> 
> Anyway, back to the subject.
> 
> There is anecdotal evidence that says thus kind of "therapy" is harmful, causing psychological problems that can lead to suicide. And not taking those anecdotes seriously halting all "therapy" to verify, study and confirm or disprove, is an extreme breach of ethics.
> 
> No other psychological treatment, medical or any kind of treatment for any malady, supposed or existing, is that unethical.
> 
> If all you can produce is a dozen anecdotes from people that didn't like their sexuality, it doesn't stand against the hundreds of them I have read that say this is harmful.
> 
> So, I'm sorry. "therapies" that don't take their patients well being into consideration are unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Kind of like "pre-fontal lobotomies", "electro-shock" therapy.... they no longer are used but were they "unethical"?
> Also, I am sure there are 100s of gay advocate stories saying how bad conversion therapy was.  No question.
> But those too are anecdotal...just as my submissions which are by the way more then a dozen!
> 
> But the evidence is much more than anecdotal. In more than 50 years of research, including 48 studies we will reference here, there are data and published accounts documenting easily more than 3,000 cases of change from homosexual to heterosexual attraction, identity and functioning.
> People Can Change Resources
> 
> 
> View attachment 38293
Click to expand...

It's strictly by luck or lie that someone changes their sexuality.

I am not interested in thousands of anecdotes.

Only legitimate science is valid.

Tell me how you know somebody is homosexual. How do you test for it?

When you show me a valid text, show me negative homosexuality and office heterosexuality in your 3000 cases. Anything less is purely anecdotal and thus not evidence.

Also whether the harm caused by this faux therapy is anecdotal or not, it is unethical to continue unless it is proven not to harm people.


----------



## rdean

Inevitable said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> But "epigenetic therapy" HAS BEEN suggested... not that it is proven...but conversion therapy HAS worked.
> 
> People Can Change Our Stories of Change
> View attachment 38254
> 
> 
> 
> That's anecdotal and it doesn't really prove anything. How did they change? Did they really change, are they just trying to show that they did, so forth.
> 
> I've read about these conversion therapies, there seems to be two types. One they talk somebody who thinks they are gay out of being gay. I find it a bit dubious. And the other is called aversion. They show the person homoerotic pictures while having them drink syrup if epicac. That just makes them feel nauseated while thinking about homosexual sex.
> 
> Nothing as far as theory.
> 
> What is epigenetic therapy? Does it work in an adult?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> HEY... DID YOU NOT read my further posts!!!
> THESE ARE ANECDOTAL!!!  NO question!
> But you LIPs accepted all sorts of "anecdotals" about health care exceptions!  Obama has on the stage sob stories of people supposedly abused by those evil insurance companies..ANECDOTAL!!!
> Even Obama in this story pulled an "anecdotal" that wasn't TRUE!
> During the 2008 campaign, Obama frequently suggested his mother had to fight with her health-insurance company for treatment of her cancer because it considered her disease to be a pre-existing condition. In one of the presidential debates with GOP rival John McCain, Obama said:
> 
> A Singular Woman: The Untold Story of Barack Obama’s mother.” Scott reviewed letters from Dunham to the CIGNA insurance company, and revealed the dispute was over disability coverage, not health insurance coverage (see pages 335-339).
> 
> Disability coverage will help replace wages lost to an illness. (Dunham received a base pay of $82,500, plus a housing allowance and a car, to work in Indonesia for Development Alternatives Inc. of Bethesda, according to Scott.) But that is different than health insurance coverage denied because of a pre-existing condition, which was a major part of the president’s health care law.
> 
> Scott writes that Dunham, who died in 1995 of uterine and ovarian cancer, had health insurance that “covered most of the costs of her medical treatment…The hospital billed her insurance company directly, leaving Ann to pay only the deductible and any uncovered expenses, which, she said, came to several hundred dollars a month.”
> So OK... Obama lied about that but here are again ANECDOTAL stories about conversion therapy successes!  EXCEPTIONS YES... but nevertheless you have
> YOUR anecdotals and conversion therapy defenders should be able to have their own!
> AGAIN I have to repeat... THESE ARE EXAMPLES of how ANECDOTALS were used to pass ACA... OK!!!
> Here are ANECDOTALS why is that NOT OK???
> FOLLOW THIS LINK!  People Can Change Our Stories of Change
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know, and I don't support Obama, I didn't vote for him. The way ACA was jammed down our throats is wrong. Therefore because you compared it to your argument you are saying your argument is wrong.
> 
> I don't really care about platitudes. You made an assumption thinking I support our president and his actions. It was a bad move on your part. I'm conservative, I have only ever voted republican.
> 
> Anyway, back to the subject.
> 
> There is anecdotal evidence that says thus kind of "therapy" is harmful, causing psychological problems that can lead to suicide. And not taking those anecdotes seriously halting all "therapy" to verify, study and confirm or disprove, is an extreme breach of ethics.
> 
> No other psychological treatment, medical or any kind of treatment for any malady, supposed or existing, is that unethical.
> 
> If all you can produce is a dozen anecdotes from people that didn't like their sexuality, it doesn't stand against the hundreds of them I have read that say this is harmful.
> 
> So, I'm sorry. "therapies" that don't take their patients well being into consideration are unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Kind of like "pre-fontal lobotomies", "electro-shock" therapy.... they no longer are used but were they "unethical"?
> Also, I am sure there are 100s of gay advocate stories saying how bad conversion therapy was.  No question.
> But those too are anecdotal...just as my submissions which are by the way more then a dozen!
> 
> But the evidence is much more than anecdotal. In more than 50 years of research, including 48 studies we will reference here, there are data and published accounts documenting easily more than 3,000 cases of change from homosexual to heterosexual attraction, identity and functioning.
> People Can Change Resources
> 
> 
> View attachment 38293
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's strictly by luck or lie that someone changes their sexuality.
> 
> I am not interested in thousands of anecdotes.
> 
> Only legitimate science is valid.
> 
> Tell me how you know somebody is homosexual. How do you test for it?
> 
> When you show me a valid text, show me negative homosexuality and office heterosexuality in your 3000 cases. Anything less is purely anecdotal and thus not evidence.
> 
> Also whether the harm caused by this faux therapy is anecdotal or not, it is unethical to continue unless it is proven not to harm people.
Click to expand...

Republicans have a history of terrible harm.  Look at Iraq.  They hate us for our freedom.  They are ungrateful.  The problem is that ignorant Republicans just "assume".  Thoughts based on zero legitimate study.  Not legitimate rape, but legitimate study.
It's easy to make fun of everything they say because there is no depth, no knowledge.


----------



## healthmyths

rdean said:


> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's anecdotal and it doesn't really prove anything. How did they change? Did they really change, are they just trying to show that they did, so forth.
> 
> I've read about these conversion therapies, there seems to be two types. One they talk somebody who thinks they are gay out of being gay. I find it a bit dubious. And the other is called aversion. They show the person homoerotic pictures while having them drink syrup if epicac. That just makes them feel nauseated while thinking about homosexual sex.
> 
> Nothing as far as theory.
> 
> What is epigenetic therapy? Does it work in an adult?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HEY... DID YOU NOT read my further posts!!!
> THESE ARE ANECDOTAL!!!  NO question!
> But you LIPs accepted all sorts of "anecdotals" about health care exceptions!  Obama has on the stage sob stories of people supposedly abused by those evil insurance companies..ANECDOTAL!!!
> Even Obama in this story pulled an "anecdotal" that wasn't TRUE!
> During the 2008 campaign, Obama frequently suggested his mother had to fight with her health-insurance company for treatment of her cancer because it considered her disease to be a pre-existing condition. In one of the presidential debates with GOP rival John McCain, Obama said:
> 
> A Singular Woman: The Untold Story of Barack Obama’s mother.” Scott reviewed letters from Dunham to the CIGNA insurance company, and revealed the dispute was over disability coverage, not health insurance coverage (see pages 335-339).
> 
> Disability coverage will help replace wages lost to an illness. (Dunham received a base pay of $82,500, plus a housing allowance and a car, to work in Indonesia for Development Alternatives Inc. of Bethesda, according to Scott.) But that is different than health insurance coverage denied because of a pre-existing condition, which was a major part of the president’s health care law.
> 
> Scott writes that Dunham, who died in 1995 of uterine and ovarian cancer, had health insurance that “covered most of the costs of her medical treatment…The hospital billed her insurance company directly, leaving Ann to pay only the deductible and any uncovered expenses, which, she said, came to several hundred dollars a month.”
> So OK... Obama lied about that but here are again ANECDOTAL stories about conversion therapy successes!  EXCEPTIONS YES... but nevertheless you have
> YOUR anecdotals and conversion therapy defenders should be able to have their own!
> AGAIN I have to repeat... THESE ARE EXAMPLES of how ANECDOTALS were used to pass ACA... OK!!!
> Here are ANECDOTALS why is that NOT OK???
> FOLLOW THIS LINK!  People Can Change Our Stories of Change
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know, and I don't support Obama, I didn't vote for him. The way ACA was jammed down our throats is wrong. Therefore because you compared it to your argument you are saying your argument is wrong.
> 
> I don't really care about platitudes. You made an assumption thinking I support our president and his actions. It was a bad move on your part. I'm conservative, I have only ever voted republican.
> 
> Anyway, back to the subject.
> 
> There is anecdotal evidence that says thus kind of "therapy" is harmful, causing psychological problems that can lead to suicide. And not taking those anecdotes seriously halting all "therapy" to verify, study and confirm or disprove, is an extreme breach of ethics.
> 
> No other psychological treatment, medical or any kind of treatment for any malady, supposed or existing, is that unethical.
> 
> If all you can produce is a dozen anecdotes from people that didn't like their sexuality, it doesn't stand against the hundreds of them I have read that say this is harmful.
> 
> So, I'm sorry. "therapies" that don't take their patients well being into consideration are unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Kind of like "pre-fontal lobotomies", "electro-shock" therapy.... they no longer are used but were they "unethical"?
> Also, I am sure there are 100s of gay advocate stories saying how bad conversion therapy was.  No question.
> But those too are anecdotal...just as my submissions which are by the way more then a dozen!
> 
> But the evidence is much more than anecdotal. In more than 50 years of research, including 48 studies we will reference here, there are data and published accounts documenting easily more than 3,000 cases of change from homosexual to heterosexual attraction, identity and functioning.
> People Can Change Resources
> 
> 
> View attachment 38293
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's strictly by luck or lie that someone changes their sexuality.
> 
> I am not interested in thousands of anecdotes.
> 
> Only legitimate science is valid.
> 
> Tell me how you know somebody is homosexual. How do you test for it?
> 
> When you show me a valid text, show me negative homosexuality and office heterosexuality in your 3000 cases. Anything less is purely anecdotal and thus not evidence.
> 
> Also whether the harm caused by this faux therapy is anecdotal or not, it is unethical to continue unless it is proven not to harm people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Republicans have a history of terrible harm.  Look at Iraq.  They hate us for our freedom.  They are ungrateful.  The problem is that ignorant Republicans just "assume".  Thoughts based on zero legitimate study.  Not legitimate rape, but legitimate study.
> It's easy to make fun of everything they say because there is no depth, no knowledge.
Click to expand...


YEA Right... based on the  above totally fabricated comments your credibility is surely impugnable!


----------



## rdean

healthmyths said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> HEY... DID YOU NOT read my further posts!!!
> THESE ARE ANECDOTAL!!!  NO question!
> But you LIPs accepted all sorts of "anecdotals" about health care exceptions!  Obama has on the stage sob stories of people supposedly abused by those evil insurance companies..ANECDOTAL!!!
> Even Obama in this story pulled an "anecdotal" that wasn't TRUE!
> During the 2008 campaign, Obama frequently suggested his mother had to fight with her health-insurance company for treatment of her cancer because it considered her disease to be a pre-existing condition. In one of the presidential debates with GOP rival John McCain, Obama said:
> 
> A Singular Woman: The Untold Story of Barack Obama’s mother.” Scott reviewed letters from Dunham to the CIGNA insurance company, and revealed the dispute was over disability coverage, not health insurance coverage (see pages 335-339).
> 
> Disability coverage will help replace wages lost to an illness. (Dunham received a base pay of $82,500, plus a housing allowance and a car, to work in Indonesia for Development Alternatives Inc. of Bethesda, according to Scott.) But that is different than health insurance coverage denied because of a pre-existing condition, which was a major part of the president’s health care law.
> 
> Scott writes that Dunham, who died in 1995 of uterine and ovarian cancer, had health insurance that “covered most of the costs of her medical treatment…The hospital billed her insurance company directly, leaving Ann to pay only the deductible and any uncovered expenses, which, she said, came to several hundred dollars a month.”
> So OK... Obama lied about that but here are again ANECDOTAL stories about conversion therapy successes!  EXCEPTIONS YES... but nevertheless you have
> YOUR anecdotals and conversion therapy defenders should be able to have their own!
> AGAIN I have to repeat... THESE ARE EXAMPLES of how ANECDOTALS were used to pass ACA... OK!!!
> Here are ANECDOTALS why is that NOT OK???
> FOLLOW THIS LINK!  People Can Change Our Stories of Change
> 
> 
> 
> I know, and I don't support Obama, I didn't vote for him. The way ACA was jammed down our throats is wrong. Therefore because you compared it to your argument you are saying your argument is wrong.
> 
> I don't really care about platitudes. You made an assumption thinking I support our president and his actions. It was a bad move on your part. I'm conservative, I have only ever voted republican.
> 
> Anyway, back to the subject.
> 
> There is anecdotal evidence that says thus kind of "therapy" is harmful, causing psychological problems that can lead to suicide. And not taking those anecdotes seriously halting all "therapy" to verify, study and confirm or disprove, is an extreme breach of ethics.
> 
> No other psychological treatment, medical or any kind of treatment for any malady, supposed or existing, is that unethical.
> 
> If all you can produce is a dozen anecdotes from people that didn't like their sexuality, it doesn't stand against the hundreds of them I have read that say this is harmful.
> 
> So, I'm sorry. "therapies" that don't take their patients well being into consideration are unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Kind of like "pre-fontal lobotomies", "electro-shock" therapy.... they no longer are used but were they "unethical"?
> Also, I am sure there are 100s of gay advocate stories saying how bad conversion therapy was.  No question.
> But those too are anecdotal...just as my submissions which are by the way more then a dozen!
> 
> But the evidence is much more than anecdotal. In more than 50 years of research, including 48 studies we will reference here, there are data and published accounts documenting easily more than 3,000 cases of change from homosexual to heterosexual attraction, identity and functioning.
> People Can Change Resources
> 
> 
> View attachment 38293
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's strictly by luck or lie that someone changes their sexuality.
> 
> I am not interested in thousands of anecdotes.
> 
> Only legitimate science is valid.
> 
> Tell me how you know somebody is homosexual. How do you test for it?
> 
> When you show me a valid text, show me negative homosexuality and office heterosexuality in your 3000 cases. Anything less is purely anecdotal and thus not evidence.
> 
> Also whether the harm caused by this faux therapy is anecdotal or not, it is unethical to continue unless it is proven not to harm people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Republicans have a history of terrible harm.  Look at Iraq.  They hate us for our freedom.  They are ungrateful.  The problem is that ignorant Republicans just "assume".  Thoughts based on zero legitimate study.  Not legitimate rape, but legitimate study.
> It's easy to make fun of everything they say because there is no depth, no knowledge.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YEA Right... based on the  above totally fabricated comments your credibility is surely impugnable!
Click to expand...

Totally fabricated comments?  Do you have examples?


----------



## healthmyths

rdean said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know, and I don't support Obama, I didn't vote for him. The way ACA was jammed down our throats is wrong. Therefore because you compared it to your argument you are saying your argument is wrong.
> 
> I don't really care about platitudes. You made an assumption thinking I support our president and his actions. It was a bad move on your part. I'm conservative, I have only ever voted republican.
> 
> Anyway, back to the subject.
> 
> There is anecdotal evidence that says thus kind of "therapy" is harmful, causing psychological problems that can lead to suicide. And not taking those anecdotes seriously halting all "therapy" to verify, study and confirm or disprove, is an extreme breach of ethics.
> 
> No other psychological treatment, medical or any kind of treatment for any malady, supposed or existing, is that unethical.
> 
> If all you can produce is a dozen anecdotes from people that didn't like their sexuality, it doesn't stand against the hundreds of them I have read that say this is harmful.
> 
> So, I'm sorry. "therapies" that don't take their patients well being into consideration are unethical.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kind of like "pre-fontal lobotomies", "electro-shock" therapy.... they no longer are used but were they "unethical"?
> Also, I am sure there are 100s of gay advocate stories saying how bad conversion therapy was.  No question.
> But those too are anecdotal...just as my submissions which are by the way more then a dozen!
> 
> But the evidence is much more than anecdotal. In more than 50 years of research, including 48 studies we will reference here, there are data and published accounts documenting easily more than 3,000 cases of change from homosexual to heterosexual attraction, identity and functioning.
> People Can Change Resources
> 
> 
> View attachment 38293
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's strictly by luck or lie that someone changes their sexuality.
> 
> I am not interested in thousands of anecdotes.
> 
> Only legitimate science is valid.
> 
> Tell me how you know somebody is homosexual. How do you test for it?
> 
> When you show me a valid text, show me negative homosexuality and office heterosexuality in your 3000 cases. Anything less is purely anecdotal and thus not evidence.
> 
> Also whether the harm caused by this faux therapy is anecdotal or not, it is unethical to continue unless it is proven not to harm people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Republicans have a history of terrible harm.  Look at Iraq.  They hate us for our freedom.  They are ungrateful.  The problem is that ignorant Republicans just "assume".  Thoughts based on zero legitimate study.  Not legitimate rape, but legitimate study.
> It's easy to make fun of everything they say because there is no depth, no knowledge.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YEA Right... based on the  above totally fabricated comments your credibility is surely impugnable!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Totally fabricated comments?  Do you have examples?
Click to expand...



YOU WROTE:
_"Republicans have a history of terrible harm. "_ 
Where in the hell is YOUR FACTS of "terrible harm"?  NONE!

" _Look at Iraq. They hate us for our freedom. "_
WHO hates US for our freedom??? Iraq??  What the hell do you mean?  YOU saying the "Liberation of Iraq" was bad?  That saving 1.2 million children from starvation was wrong?  That saving 28 million from a dictator and his sons that used drills, cut out tongues fed Iraqis to the lions literally!  And
that was WRONG??
"_They are ungrateful. "_
Who is "ungrateful"?  Quite the opposite... LIPs like you assume the government is the ONLY way to take care of ALL problems.  LIPs like you
with such limited information don't want people to become independent.  YOU want to be a zombie eating the flesh of the wealthy!!! 
The problem is that ignorant Republicans just "assume". 
_Thoughts based on zero legitimate study. Not legitimate rape, but legitimate study.
_
It's easy to make fun of everything they say because there is no depth, no knowledge.
Explain how your ANECDOTAL stories are deep!  any different the the anecdotal stories told by people that have had successful conversion therapy.
The problem with LIPs like you you have no problem believing in phony messiah Obama... but when people in real life have had life changing 
that they attribute to a Supreme Being YOU laugh at them!  
Just one thought to leave you... Did Newton's *law* of universal *gravitation *exist before Newton came up with the law?  
 Did it exist BEFORE Newton's observation?


----------



## emilynghiem

Inevitable said:


> 1. It's strictly by luck or lie that someone changes their sexuality.
> 
> I am not interested in thousands of anecdotes.
> 
> Only legitimate science is valid.
> 
> 2. Tell me how you know somebody is homosexual. How do you test for it?
> 
> When you show me a valid text, show me negative homosexuality and office heterosexuality in your 3000 cases. Anything less is purely anecdotal and thus not evidence.
> 
> Also whether the harm caused by this faux therapy is anecdotal or not, it is unethical to continue unless it is proven not to harm people.



Hi Inevitable I'm glad you're still here, I invited some friends from a humanist group to join this discussion who are equally concerned about false/harmful forced therapy and misguided psychiatric approaches.

1. I think you are talking about the fake cases then, that may be based on lies or luck.
The truly natural, effective and voluntary cases are NOT lies.
And the work it takes is clearly NOT "luck" but takes a very deep rooted spiritual process:
How To Defeat Homosexual Activists 101 A Real Education Page 4 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

2. RE: how do we even "test" if someone is homosexual (or transgender?)
EXACTLY
So if this cannot even be shown to be a physical "orientation"
that is why people are saying it is a BEHAVIOR which is not a protected class.
It is not PROVEN to be a set condition especially not genetic or congenital.

As for harm caused to people
a1. we can prove that the pedophile types are harmful, after they are proven to have a dangerous addiction or criminal illness condition,
a2. but that doesn't mean all are that way. so if homosexuality cannot be proven to cause harm or abuse it cannot be treated as a crime and start depriving people of liberties and equal protections of the law
b1. we can prove the fraudulent coercive/abusive types of therapy are harmful,
b2. but that doesn't meant the natural therapies cause any problems or harm since those are voluntary and not based on any "conditions" -- these are based on forgiving and letting go of all conditions so the person heals naturally

What can be proven is if someone doesn't want same sex attractions, and this is causing them personal distress, they deserve a free and equal choice to work with therapy that has no conditions either way -- neither pressuring/coercing them to accept and stay homosexual NOR pressure/coercion to change. The true healing therapy works on removing any such conditions so the person makes peace and accepts whoever they are naturally.


----------



## auditor0007

occupied said:


> I wonder if there is a conversion therapy for willfully ignorant people. A better question is why do you care who other people sleep with?



There is no chance of converting Health's ignorance.  It is buried much too deep within his psyche.


----------



## Inevitable

emilynghiem said:


> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. It's strictly by luck or lie that someone changes their sexuality.
> 
> I am not interested in thousands of anecdotes.
> 
> Only legitimate science is valid.
> 
> 2. Tell me how you know somebody is homosexual. How do you test for it?
> 
> When you show me a valid text, show me negative homosexuality and office heterosexuality in your 3000 cases. Anything less is purely anecdotal and thus not evidence.
> 
> Also whether the harm caused by this faux therapy is anecdotal or not, it is unethical to continue unless it is proven not to harm people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Inevitable I'm glad you're still here, I invited some friends from a humanist group to join this discussion who are equally concerned about false/harmful forced therapy and misguided psychiatric approaches.
> 
> 1. I think you are talking about the fake cases then, that may be based on lies or luck.
> The truly natural, effective and voluntary cases are NOT lies.
> And the work it takes is clearly NOT "luck" but takes a very deep rooted spiritual process:
> How To Defeat Homosexual Activists 101 A Real Education Page 4 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> 2. RE: how do we even "test" if someone is homosexual (or transgender?)
> EXACTLY
> So if this cannot even be shown to be a physical "orientation"
> that is why people are saying it is a BEHAVIOR which is not a protected class.
> It is not PROVEN to be a set condition especially not genetic or congenital.
> 
> As for harm caused to people
> a1. we can prove that the pedophile types are harmful, after they are proven to have a dangerous addiction or criminal illness condition,
> a2. but that doesn't mean all are that way. so if homosexuality cannot be proven to cause harm or abuse it cannot be treated as a crime and start depriving people of liberties and equal protections of the law
> b1. we can prove the fraudulent coercive/abusive types of therapy are harmful,
> b2. but that doesn't meant the natural therapies cause any problems or harm since those are voluntary and not based on any "conditions" -- these are based on forgiving and letting go of all conditions so the person heals naturally
> 
> What can be proven is if someone doesn't want same sex attractions, and this is causing them personal distress, they deserve a free and equal choice to work with therapy that has no conditions either way -- neither pressuring/coercing them to accept and stay homosexual NOR pressure/coercion to change. The true healing therapy works on removing any such conditions so the person makes peace and accepts whoever they are naturally.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Thus you must despise these faux therapies being marketed as conversion therapy.


----------



## Delta4Embassy

See the pretty girl? - Gay Conversion Therapy


----------



## GreenBean

Inevitable said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.
> 
> So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?
> 
> So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
> This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
> California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com
> 
> Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?
> 
> I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ?  Where are the facts Mr. Brown?
> 
> People are gay for two reasons:
> 1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
> 2) The behavior is learned.
> 
> Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.
> 
> I would like anyone to refute that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As is generally the case the OP on this thread has strayed off in several different directions. The OP being Conversion therapy.
> 
> Conversion therapy, Ex Gay or reparative therapy is primarily promoted by the mental health organization, NARTH. NARTH teaches that homosexuality is abnormal, unnatural,undesirable and changeable sexual behavior.
> 
> Complete data on conversion theapy is quite often withheld or suppressed. This makes the actual success rate of conversion therapy difficult to guage with any real degree of accuracy. However, several studies have revealed sufficient data which can be utilized to arrive at crude estimate of the conversion success rate:
> 
> Studies on conversion therapy for unwanted homosexual attractions yield varying success rates, ranging from 30%-70%, these rates are no different than success rates for other therapeutic practices - However the other therapeutic practices, such as substance abuse and assorted phobias and fetishes are not politically incorrect - criticizing the Gay Agenda and lifestyle is.
> 
> A key word in the preceding statement is "unwanted homosexual attractions"  - as is the case with other therapeutic practices - treating somebody who doesn't want to be treated and believes they are confortable with their malady is statistically doomed to failure
> 
> Being politically charged , politically correct science [Bad Science] will frequently totally disregard the facts,  and the agenda of he who shouts the loudest wins.
> 
> Socio-Fascists are currently blatantly promoting homosexuality, it is surmised as part of Big Brothers concerted effort to expedite the disintegration of the family structure and reduce the surplus population/ curtail population growth.
> 
> So Why is the gay community afraid of "conversion therapy"
> 
> It is an admission that their sexual dysphoria -homosexuality is abnormal and something which needs to be treated.  If there is no disease , there should not be a need for a cure .
> The succes of Conversion Therapy, is the failure of the Gay Agenda - it flies in the face of their ideological agenda and propaganda.
> 
> Conversion Therapy is far from the voo-doo quackery preached by the politically correct socio-fascists and useful idiots - it is a viable and effective method of treating a psychologiocally degenerative disease - Homosexuality
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Narth goes against all science on this subject.
> The Wild Reed: Debunking NARTH (Part I)
> 
> Basically they are trying to treat something that isn't a pathology. Homosexuality was removed from the DSM because there is no known pathology that exists in association with it. This hs been studied since the 1950s. I know you have a theory that gaypeople have taken over the APA or bought them out or something like that. Frankly there is no reason for me to believe that, so unless you have evidence, I will think of this like I do the builderburg group. Or Atlantis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The APA also approved prefrontal lobotomies as well as trepanning.  So they are not prone to following fads...i.e. supporting the "I gotta be me" crowd.
> 
> In 2008, the organizers of an APA panel on the relationship between religion and homosexuality canceled the event after gay activists objected that *"conversion therapists and their supporters on the religious right use these appearances as a public relations event to try and legitimize what they do.*"[64][65]
> 
> Conversion therapy - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you think the Apa is not credible because they don't support a so called "therapy" that has no clinical trials, no thesis, no method, and no understanding about the subject they intend to meddle with?
> 
> If they could legitimize it, it would be legitimate. Can we change somebody's sexual orientation? What purpose would there be for doing so? So far the misnamed "conversion therapy" has what kind of success rate?
> 
> I'm sorry, I don't buy the conspiracy theory that the Apa is controlled by the gays.
> 
> If they supported any kind of church provided therapy they would lose credibility. That is wise of them not to.
> 
> Any "therapist" that supports converting people's sexuality, can start an association of their own and then battle for legitimacy. I wish them luck.
Click to expand...



Hi Faggot - how ya been ?  My apologies for not replying to your half baked dribble in a timely fashion , but I've been busy existing in the real world.

.





> So you think the Apa is not credible because they don't support a so called "therapy" .



I and many others don't THINK the APA has no credibility -*WE Know the APA has no credibility*.  The list includes Some of its former leaders and at least one of their former Presidents  as well as the man who wrote the motion to have Homosexuality declassified back in the 70s - a move he now regrets . .... Oh yes add the United States Congress to that list - They have censured the APA in the past for their "Non-Scientific" Politically motivated activities.



> Can we change somebody's sexual orientation?



Yes , and it has been done although the success ratio is low - somewhat like substance abuse therapy. Oh and by the way-  my little cum-guzzling friend - YOU are not even remotely qualified to speculate on such an issue.  For starters you're a faggot - carrying my position further it's obvious that you are an uniformed, uneducated and ignorant faggot at that.

Regards and Fk Off


----------



## GreenBean

Delta4Embassy said:


> See the pretty girl? - Gay Conversion Therapy


----------



## GreenBean

occupied said:


> I wonder if there is a conversion therapy for willfully ignorant people. A better question is why do you care who other people sleep with?


A better question would be why are they so hell-bent on disseminating malevolent propaganda and presenting their dementia as an "alternative life-style" to young people.

The brainwashing and conditioning perpetrated against the public and in particular the youngest members of society under the guise of tolerance and diversity is nothing but a smoke screen .

So far as "Conversion Therapy for willfully ignorant people"  -I truly wish there was ... but alas ......Liberalism - unlike Homosexuality is not curable it's terminal.


----------



## GreenBean

Katzndogz said:


> They aren't afraid of conversion therapy.  Just when it's used on them.  Gays have managed to get all different kinds of straight people sent to conversion therapy to make them more gay friendly.


It's known as conditioning and Brainwashing - and it's done on a societal level.


----------



## GreenBean

JakeStarkey said:


> Because conversion therapy is based on a false premise.
> 
> hm, once again you post material that undermines your OP.


LMAO - Jake the Fake still pounding away ... kinda reminds me of the Million Monkeys hypothesis - if you put a million monkeys to peck away at a million typewriters for a million years eventually by shear random chance they will eventually come up with something intelligible in the English Language.  I see you haven't gotten there yet ...LOL


----------



## Mr.Right

Harry Dresden said:


> shart_attack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every (supposedly) "gay" man I've ever met has said he gets aroused watching heterosexual porn.
> 
> That tells me all I need to know about their supposedly genetic predisposition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lots of straight guys get turned on watching 2 woman go at it.....what does that say?.....
Click to expand...

It says a naked woman is hot, no matter what she's doing.


----------



## Mr.Right

The Rabbi said:


> Gays have a problem keeping things straight, so to speak.
> First they claim that no one would choose to be gay.  Then they claim that they dont want any help in overcoming their perversion.
> The truth is they not only embrace homsoexuality, defining themselves by it, but think it should be the preferential choice. Thus the efforts to inflate the number of homosexuals in America via discredited stats. And the efforts to introduce homosexuality as normative in schools at ever younger ages.


it is a well known fact that male homosexuals are extremely promiscuous. many of them have hundreds of sex partners over their lifetime. I'm thinking the reason they want other people to be gay is simply so they have someone else to bang.


----------



## Delta4Embassy

Related question occurs: why is the "straight" community so interested in the gay community?


----------



## GreenBean

Mr.Right said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gays have a problem keeping things straight, so to speak.
> First they claim that no one would choose to be gay.  Then they claim that they dont want any help in overcoming their perversion.
> The truth is they not only embrace homsoexuality, defining themselves by it, but think it should be the preferential choice. Thus the efforts to inflate the number of homosexuals in America via discredited stats. And the efforts to introduce homosexuality as normative in schools at ever younger ages.
> 
> 
> 
> it is a well known fact that male homosexuals are extremely promiscuous. many of them have hundreds of sex partners over their lifetime. I'm thinking the reason they want other people to be gay is simply so they have someone else to bang.
Click to expand...

Misery loves company - it's innately natural for Human Beings to mold our fellow man to suit our vision of people should be -  and i grudgingly admit that yes --- faggots are human --- degenerate human beings but still bound by the same psychological parameters as real people.


----------



## GreenBean

Delta4Embassy said:


> Related question occurs: why is the "straight" community so interested in the gay community?


Related Question - They wouldn't be if you'd *get the fk out of our faces !   Back in the closet faggot 


Only 1 - 4% of the U.S. population is Gay or Lesbian. Why in Gods name would so many allegedly educated {or indoctrinated as the case may be} and supposedly informed American Adults believe that so very many of their countrymen are homosexuals ? .... drum roll ..... the answer is ....Gross over representation and coverage by the Media, both in Entertainment Fiction {Soaps, Sitcoms, Movies..} as well as News coverage.*

*Chronology of Gay Activism and Terrorism*

1970  New York Post columnist Pete Hamill refers to gays as â€œslim-waisted freakcreepsâ€  Gay activists picketed the Post and demanded Hamill be fired. The editor apologized, but defended the editorial freedom of his writers.



1970 Gay activists occupied the offices of Harpers Magazine after the magazine ran a cover story â€œHomo/Hetero: The Struggle for Sexual Identity.â€ that described homosexuality as "an affront to our rationality living evidence of our despair of ever finding a sensible, an explainable design to the world."





1972 - The Gay Media Task Force is created by the National Gay Task Force to be an organization to manipulate and control network television programming, theoretically as it addressed gay issues.



1972 ..... the networks tilted against the guardians of morality. They began to send scripts to gay Gay consultants routinely. "Anything that crops up in a script that is even remotely gay"  said the writer Allan Burns , "They get it and they really make themselves heard"  **Inside Prime Time





 ** by Todd Gitlin

1972 Gay activist, turned journalist Mark Segal feigns disdain that he couldnâ€™t dance with a gay partner on a dance show, infiltrates an ABC affiliate in Philadelphia and interrupts the news broadcast. He later pulled similar charades against the Johnny Carson on the Tonight Show when he stormed out of the Audience during a live show, on the Mike Douglas show and Today shows. Variety claimed that the activities of Segal alone, not to mention other gay activities had cost the entertainment industry $750,000 in costs including lost advertising revenue.

1973 - Gay propagandist/activist invades CBS News with Walter Cronkite.

1974  A popular and long-running medical drama on ABC - Marcus Welby MD tells the story of a teen boy who is sexually molested by his gay science teacher. The episode, â€œThe Outrageâ€ aired October 8, 1974. Gays squawked immediately - a campaign against the network ensued, gays bombarded over 200 organizations with hate mail and lobbied vigorously. Many major sponsors pulled out ,17 affiliates dropped the program. Some of the affiliates dropping the program were coerced by threats of reprisal if they failed to pull it from their stations .  ..._Like other media activists Loretta Lotman already had established ties with the management of ... local ABC Affiliate.... she warned that if something were not done about the program they would be hit with protests the likes of which thaye had never  seen before.._  **Target: Prime Time: Advocacy Groups and the Struggle Over Entertainment Television (Communication and Society)





 **

1977 Florida gay rights/privileges ordinance sparks strong opposition .  Former Miss Oklahoma beauty pageant winner, and outspoken critic of homosexuality Anita Bryant led the campaign that successfully had the law repealed and she paid dearly. Her career came to a screeching halt, her credibility and reputation was viciously assaulted . She was at one point physically assaulted with a pie while attempting to exercise her right to Free Speech. *Beware all those who oppose the Gay Agenda  Anita Bryant's career was destroyed by her campaign against "militant homosexuality"  She ultimately suffered a divorce, needed counseling, and was bankrupted.*

**The Anita Bryant Story





 **

Anita Bryant assaulted - YouTube

Like Satan, Anita Bryant keeps coming back.  2009

Uma Thurman to Play Notorious Anti-Gay Activist in â€˜Anitaâ€™   2013



1978 - A Question of Love, ABC TV movie airs based on a lesbian mother and her struggle for custody of her children. Part of manipulated trend to positive TV images of gays , acknowledged as a result of gay activists.



1980 - CBS Reports Episode â€œGay Power, Gay Politicsâ€  draws strong criticism for what the gay camp referred to as malicious inaccuracies and slanting of the news. The program did heavily focus on the sexual practices of gay males , in particular sadomasochism. The National News Council, stated that CBS had violated journalistic standards through misrepresentation as well as through deceptive editing.  I find it curious that the National News Council never says anything when CBS manipulates in favor of the Left leaning liberals and democrats which it has consistently for decades. **See Dan Rather**



1983  NY Times did not cover a fundraiser for Gay Menâ€™s Health Crisis in Madison Square Garden - leads to protests and eventual apology from the Times for not helping in promoting the Gay Agenda



1985  "....You can handle homosexuality - as long as you handle it a lovely, tolerant fashion that will not upset the gay liberation lobby" - Earnest Kinov writer, screenwriter and playwright.



1987  Marshall K. Kirk and Erastes Pill wrote a strategy series of articles entitled "The Overhauling of Straight America" which appeared in Guide Magazine. They wrote ...  "In the early states of any campaign to reach straight America, the *masses should not be shocked and repelled by premature exposure to homosexual behavior itself.* Instead, the imagery of sex should be downplayed and gay rights should be reduced to an abstract social question as much as possible. *First let the camel get his nose inside the tent -- and only later his unsightly derriere! "*



1987 A study by The Center for Media and Public Affairs reported that only 9% of the characters depicted on TV with AIDS are identified as homosexual ,while in actuality, over 70 percent of such persons have AIDS or HIV. This is in accordance with the unwritten homosexual lobby's demand to define AIDS as non-gay disease.



1988, a conference of 175 gay activist leaders  convened near Washington, D.C. to establish an agenda.  After that meeting, Harvard-trained social scientists and homosexual activists Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen wrote the Gay manifesto After The Ball



1988 episode of NBC's "Midnight Caller" originally portrayed a homosexual as an AIDS carrier who deliberately infects straight woman, a gaggle of gays gathered and more rapidly flocked to NBC Studios and vigorously protested loudly outside the set. The script was changed to appease the pervs, and the program executives humbly kissed their royal infected derrieres while apologizing profusely.



1988, Cosmopolitan magazine published an article  "Reassuring News About AIDS: A Doctor Tells Why You May Not Be At Risk." which attempted to inform the public that in unprotected vaginal sex between a man and a woman , the risk of HIV transmission was basically nonexistant, even if the man was infected. This did not fit within the narrow confines of the warped reality that the Homosexual agenda was attempting to ram down societies throat. When lobbying and coercion against the Author and Cosmopolitan failed, the gay agendaites decided they "had to shut down Cosmo." They produced a video entitled, "Doctor, Liars, and Women: AIDS Activists Say No To Cosmo." Activists protested vigorously at the Hearst building (parent company of Cosmopolitan) chanting "Say no to Cosmo!"



1989 Andy Rooney states on air that the year had brought recognition â€œ_of the fact that many of the ills which kill us are self-induced: too much alcohol, too much food, drugs, homosexual unions, cigarettes. Theyâ€™re all known to lead quite often to premature death_.â€  shortly thereafter Rooney made a racial comment  â€œ_Iâ€™ve believed all along that most people are born with equal intelligence, but blacks have watered down their genes because the less intelligent ones are the ones that have the most children. They drop out of school early, do drugs, and get pregnant_.â€  he is suspended for the racial comment , a Gay uproar follows because he was not disciplined for the Gay comment.


1990 The Sacramento Union publishes several editorials against pro-homosexual activities. Vandals quickly destroyed over a hundred of the newspaper's vending machines. The vandalized machines were plastered with stickers from the AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power / ACT UP .

1990  The Wall Street Journal editorialized that it seems to be *entirely permissible to discuss homosexuality.....only if you maintain "the approved point of view."*



1991 During the height of Operation Desert Storm, ACT UP activist John Weir and two other activists entered the studio of the CBS Evening News at the beginning of the broadcast. They shouted "AIDS is news. Fight AIDS, not Arabs!" Even anchorman Dan Rather, that befuddled bastion of left wing lunacy was not immune to the Gay onslaught. . The same night ACT UP demonstrated at the studios of the MacNeil/Lehrer Newshour. The next day activists displayed banners in Grand Central Terminal that said "Money for AIDS, not for war" and "One AIDS death every 8 minutes." One of the banners was handheld and displayed across the train timetable and the other attached to bundles of balloons that lifted it up to the ceiling of the station's enormous main room. These actions were part of a coordinated protest called "Day of Desperation."[Wikipedia]

1992  Marketing reports indicate that gays have more expendable income than normal people, mainstream advertisers began pouring money into gay publications. Some advertising revenues nearly double.



1994  Roseanne TV episode features a kiss between two females.

1997  Lesbian Television personality Ellen Degenerate .... uh I mean Degeneres, has her TV character also come out, ratings climb.

1996 Los Angeles magazine cover story by gay journalist David Ehrenstein,, argued that gay material was more persuasive than the average viewer might have thought. "*You may not have noticed, but your favorite sitcoms are written by gays and lesbians*." informed readers with a tongue in cheek nod to the idea of a gay sitcom writer mafia." {Gay TV and Straight America





 Pg. 163}



2012 DC Comics relaunches its Green Lantern character as Gay, the original character was a married father of two who first appeared in 1940



2011 - Gallup poll shows that U.S. adults estimate that 25% of Americans are gay or lesbian.

  52% of American Adults estimate that at least one in five Americans are gay or lesbian

  35% estimate that more than one in four are.

  Few put the figure at less than 15%.



The actual number ???  .... drum roll .... envelope please ..... and the answer is ....... LESS THAN 4%  are Gay !!!!!

That's correct only 1 - 4% of the U.S. population is Gay or Lesbian.  Why in Gods name would so many allegedly educated {or indoctrinated as the case may be} and supposedly informed  American Adults believe that so very many of their countrymen are  homosexuals ?  .... drum roll ..... the answer is ....*Gross over representation and coverage by the Media*, both in Entertainment Fiction {Soaps, Sitcoms, Movies..} as well as News coverage.



Almost any show currently airing on television features at least one homosexual. Daytime talk shows, Soaps, and comedies are rampant with out of closet card carrying homosexual characters.  In addition, all these characters are not permitted to display character flaws,  they are either wealthy, educated,  and happy OR depressed and oppressed by perceived mistreatment from normal people.



2013 FemTechNet - A feminist internet group is organizing a program entitled "Storming Wikipedia," and are calling for women to edit the site and add  feminist stories .  Now I see nothing wrong with giving equal representation to the contributions of  Women to science , history, the arts and so on, the problem lies in the adverse and perverted agenda which the controlling agents for this organization espouse. A warped world view, generally completely out of context is what they envision and will attempt to implant within the pages of the most trafficked reference site available.



Yale University, Brown University, Pennsylvania State University  and many others will offer college credits to students who help to impose the feminist view on wikipedia readers. â€˜Storming Wikipediaâ€™: Colleges offer credit to students who enter â€˜feminist thinkingâ€™ into Wikipedia



2014  A Religious group known as Focus on the Family is trying to release a movie in theaters entitled â€œIrreplaceableâ€ which presents their views of the value of the traditional family, and dares to suggest the importance of fathers being involved in the lives of their children. I can't comment reliably on the entertainment value or worthiness of the film , as I haven't seen it, and if the Gay Mafia has their way I will never have the opportunity - nor will you.

LGBT advocates, pawns of the Gay Mafia, have launched an intensive campaign to discredit the movie online. The Campaign to shut the Movie Down are being coordinated on Facebook, Twitter and a Change.org petition begun by a gay teacher from California. They have petitioned against it and are working vigorously to ensure that â€œIrreplaceableâ€ is never seen in local theaters. The President of Focus on Family, Jim Daly reported that some of the more than 700 theaters nationwide scheduled to show the film are backing out under pressure from the Gay Mafia. [See Gay mafia' attacks Focus on the Family movie]

Where was all the righteous indignation when the gay propaganda film broke back mountain came out, Or when pedophile Bryan Singer and his co-conspirators blasted his self admitted subliminal gay propaganda at kids via XMen ? [See : Comic Books and the Gay Agenda] 

Gay and Lesbian Media influences


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## healthmyths

Delta4Embassy said:


> Related question occurs: why is the "straight" community so interested in the gay community?



I think you have it reversed.  Straights would prefer gays stay in the closet.  Gays prefer promiscuity.  Therefore gays are more interested in straights as there more of us then them!


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## WinterBorn

healthmyths said:


> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Related question occurs: why is the "straight" community so interested in the gay community?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you have it reversed.  Straights would prefer gays stay in the closet.  Gays prefer promiscuity.  Therefore gays are more interested in straights as there more of us then them!
Click to expand...


What straights are you talking about that prefer gays stay in the closet?

I am straight and do not care one bit.  In fact, I would find anyone who is that concerned about wanting gays to stay in the closet to be too interested in the gays.


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## healthmyths

WinterBorn said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Related question occurs: why is the "straight" community so interested in the gay community?
> 
> 
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> I think you have it reversed.  Straights would prefer gays stay in the closet.  Gays prefer promiscuity.  Therefore gays are more interested in straights as there more of us then them!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What straights are you talking about that prefer gays stay in the closet?
> 
> I am straight and do not care one bit.  In fact, I would find anyone who is that concerned about wanting gays to stay in the closet to be too interested in the gays.
Click to expand...


That's probably because you are also too promiscuous and you'd be happy to accommodate the gay communities taking advantage of young innocent mallable kids that would be susceptible to a gay's dick licking!  That is the ONLY reason the gay community is so high profile is they want to gain more converts to the gay life style.  
Which obviously you have no problem with which is another indication of your ignorance about the demise of a civilization when gays become prolific.


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## WinterBorn

healthmyths said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> healthmyths said:
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> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Related question occurs: why is the "straight" community so interested in the gay community?
> 
> 
> 
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> I think you have it reversed.  Straights would prefer gays stay in the closet.  Gays prefer promiscuity.  Therefore gays are more interested in straights as there more of us then them!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What straights are you talking about that prefer gays stay in the closet?
> 
> I am straight and do not care one bit.  In fact, I would find anyone who is that concerned about wanting gays to stay in the closet to be too interested in the gays.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's probably because you are also too promiscuous and you'd be happy to accommodate the gay communities taking advantage of young innocent mallable kids that would be susceptible to a gay's dick licking!  That is the ONLY reason the gay community is so high profile is they want to gain more converts to the gay life style.
> Which obviously you have no problem with which is another indication of your ignorance about the demise of a civilization when gays become prolific.
Click to expand...


Absolutely not.   Anyone who molests a child should be thrown into prison.  PERIOD.  

Now, what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home is none of my business and I do not care about it.  That people are openly gay has no effect at all on me.   I raised 3 kids to feel the same way, and none of them were molested.  If they had been, I would not be concerned about the gender of the molester.  I would be concerned about making sure they went to prison before I got my hands on them.   In fact, the only molestation in my extended family involves my ex-wife being molested by her father and step-father.   And the fact that it is heterosexual molestation does not make it any less horrific.


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## GreenBean

WinterBorn said:


> healthmyths said:
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> Delta4Embassy said:
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> Related question occurs: why is the "straight" community so interested in the gay community?
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> I think you have it reversed.  Straights would prefer gays stay in the closet.  Gays prefer promiscuity.  Therefore gays are more interested in straights as there more of us then them!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What straights are you talking about that prefer gays stay in the closet?
> 
> I am straight and do not care one bit.  In fact, I would find anyone who is that concerned about wanting gays to stay in the closet to be too interested in the gays.
Click to expand...




> I am straight and do not care one bit



That's because you have latent homosexual tendencies - basically you're a closet fag.


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## GreenBean

WinterBorn said:


> Anyone who molests a child should be thrown into prison. PERIOD.


How do you define "molest"  - do you consider molesting a child to be simply physical contact of a sexual nature - what about the "*Rape - Culture*" promoted by gay activists and aimed at Children - I for one consider that a type of Child Molestation.


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## WinterBorn

GreenBean said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> healthmyths said:
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> Delta4Embassy said:
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> Related question occurs: why is the "straight" community so interested in the gay community?
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> I think you have it reversed.  Straights would prefer gays stay in the closet.  Gays prefer promiscuity.  Therefore gays are more interested in straights as there more of us then them!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What straights are you talking about that prefer gays stay in the closet?
> 
> I am straight and do not care one bit.  In fact, I would find anyone who is that concerned about wanting gays to stay in the closet to be too interested in the gays.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> I am straight and do not care one bit
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> Click to expand...
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> That's because you have latent homosexual tendencies - basically you're a closet fag.
Click to expand...


LMAO!!    Oh please.  This is the sort of ignorant trolling that makes these forums so entertaining.   You are clueless about who I am, but somehow you know I am a "closet fag"?   Project much?


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## WinterBorn

GreenBean said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who molests a child should be thrown into prison. PERIOD.
> 
> 
> 
> How do you define "molest"  - do you consider molesting a child to be simply physical contact of a sexual nature - what about the "*Rape - Culture*" promoted by gay activists and aimed at Children - I for one consider that a type of Child Molestation.
Click to expand...


I am not aware of the "Rape Culture" you are talking about.   The gays I know are not interested in sex with children and do not advocate any sort of rape.

I am, however, aware of what some call "Rape Culture" among straight people (especially men).  Those are the ones who want to blame the women who were raped.  You know, the ones who say "Why was she out so late?" of "The way she was dressed she was asking for it".


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## GreenBean

WinterBorn said:


> GreenBean said:
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> WinterBorn said:
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> Anyone who molests a child should be thrown into prison. PERIOD.
> 
> 
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> How do you define "molest"  - do you consider molesting a child to be simply physical contact of a sexual nature - what about the "*Rape - Culture*" promoted by gay activists and aimed at Children - I for one consider that a type of Child Molestation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not aware of the "Rape Culture" you are talking about.   The gays I know are not interested in sex with children and do not advocate any sort of rape.
> 
> I am, however, aware of what some call "Rape Culture" among straight people (especially men).  Those are the ones who want to blame the women who were raped.  You know, the ones who say "Why was she out so late?" of "The way she was dressed she was asking for it".
Click to expand...


Yes - I am well aware of the Feminazi slant on Human Heterosexual Courting - which is why I used that phrase "Rape Culture" To sort of rub your libtard nose in it - but ceist la vie - it went boing- zoom right over your friggin head.

Rape is rape and should be severely punished   - However the term "rape culture" has been expanded on to the point of lunacy - where any aspect of male-female courting is twisted to encompass "rape culture".

The link below is only somewhat relevant - so don' t bother clicking on it - it's too advanced for you anyway - it's more there for the convenience of some of the more intellectually endowed people who wander by.

Pedophilia American Style Legitimizing Child Rape


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## WinterBorn

GreenBean said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> GreenBean said:
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> WinterBorn said:
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> Anyone who molests a child should be thrown into prison. PERIOD.
> 
> 
> 
> How do you define "molest"  - do you consider molesting a child to be simply physical contact of a sexual nature - what about the "*Rape - Culture*" promoted by gay activists and aimed at Children - I for one consider that a type of Child Molestation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not aware of the "Rape Culture" you are talking about.   The gays I know are not interested in sex with children and do not advocate any sort of rape.
> 
> I am, however, aware of what some call "Rape Culture" among straight people (especially men).  Those are the ones who want to blame the women who were raped.  You know, the ones who say "Why was she out so late?" of "The way she was dressed she was asking for it".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes - I am well aware of the Feminazi slant on Human Heterosexual Courting - which is why I used that phrase "Rape Culture" To sort of rub your libtard nose in it - but ceist la vie - it went boing- zoom right over your friggin head.
> 
> 
> The link below is only somewhat relevant - so don' t bother clicking on it - it's too advanced for you anyway - it's more there for the convenience of some of the more intellectually endowed people who wander by.
> 
> Pedophilia American Style Legitimizing Child Rape
Click to expand...


I read enough to get the gist of the article.  Not going to waste my time on more.  But the article starts out talking about men abusing underage girls.  Not exactly an indictment on homosexuality.

And how is it Feminazi slant when people blame the victim for being raped?   If she said no, the man stops.  Period.

Yeah, if labeling me as a "libtard" helps you think you made a point, feel free.   I get called both a "libtard" and a "conservatard".  It depends on the topic.


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## GreenBean

WinterBorn said:


> Those are the ones who want to blame the women who were raped





WinterBorn said:


> GreenBean said:
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> WinterBorn said:
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> healthmyths said:
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> Delta4Embassy said:
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> 
> Related question occurs: why is the "straight" community so interested in the gay community?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you have it reversed.  Straights would prefer gays stay in the closet.  Gays prefer promiscuity.  Therefore gays are more interested in straights as there more of us then them!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What straights are you talking about that prefer gays stay in the closet?
> 
> I am straight and do not care one bit.  In fact, I would find anyone who is that concerned about wanting gays to stay in the closet to be too interested in the gays.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am straight and do not care one bit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because you have latent homosexual tendencies - basically you're a closet fag.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LMAO!!    Oh please.  This is the sort of ignorant trolling that makes these forums so entertaining.   You are clueless about who I am, but somehow you know I am a "closet fag"?   Project much?
Click to expand...


Obviously in addition to a low intellect - you also have a relatively short memory span.  I've bitch smacked you a few times on this forum - you're easy.  And so far as "clueless as to who you are" ... don't know who you are - don't really care  either - you're a nobody - text on a screen.

So far as what you are - yes my pompous little pretentious minion ,* I know exactly what you are. 
*
Closet Fag - Latent Homosexual Tendencies yada yada yada ....   is a tactic used by your buddies in the queer militia aka the duckie boys or Gay Agenda - it's known as Jamming.



> The objective of jamming is to force opponents into silence by accusations of homophobia, latent homosexual tendencies and bigotry . The purpose being to create a social stigmatization of anyone whom opposes the Agenda. Jamming is to ridicule the opponent in the eyes of the world and to evoke the "pack mentality" .
> Gay Brainwashing Techniques



Just as the Feminazi comment - it was a libtard tactic thrown back in your face .

Conservatard ?  lol - i doubt anyone has called you that - although it's possible, you liberals are a pretty ignorant cluelless lot .  If it makes you feel any better - I know you're not a "conservatard"  too low info and low intellect.


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## WinterBorn

GreenBean said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> Those are the ones who want to blame the women who were raped
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> healthmyths said:
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> Delta4Embassy said:
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> 
> Related question occurs: why is the "straight" community so interested in the gay community?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think you have it reversed.  Straights would prefer gays stay in the closet.  Gays prefer promiscuity.  Therefore gays are more interested in straights as there more of us then them!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What straights are you talking about that prefer gays stay in the closet?
> 
> I am straight and do not care one bit.  In fact, I would find anyone who is that concerned about wanting gays to stay in the closet to be too interested in the gays.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am straight and do not care one bit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because you have latent homosexual tendencies - basically you're a closet fag.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LMAO!!    Oh please.  This is the sort of ignorant trolling that makes these forums so entertaining.   You are clueless about who I am, but somehow you know I am a "closet fag"?   Project much?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Obviously in addition to a low intellect - you also have a relatively short memory span.  I've bitch smacked you a few times on this forum - you're easy.  And so far as "clueless as to who you are" ... don't know who you are - don't really care  either - you're a nobody - text on a screen.
> 
> So far as what you are - yes my pompous little pretentious minion ,* I know exactly what you are.
> *
> Closet Fag - Latent Homosexual Tendencies yada yada yada ....   is a tactic used by your buddies in the queer militia aka the duckie boys or Gay Agenda - it's known as Jamming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The objective of jamming is to force opponents into silence by accusations of homophobia, latent homosexual tendencies and bigotry . The purpose being to create a social stigmatization of anyone whom opposes the Agenda. Jamming is to ridicule the opponent in the eyes of the world and to evoke the "pack mentality" .
> Gay Brainwashing Techniques
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just as the Feminazi comment - it was a libtard tactic thrown back in your face .
> 
> Conservatard ?  lol - i doubt anyone has called you that - although it's possible, you liberals are a pretty ignorant cluelless lot .  If it makes you feel any better - I know you're not a "conservatard"  too low info and low intellect.
Click to expand...


I have no idea when you THINK you bitch smacked me.   It is obviously a figment of your imagination.

And, on the onehand you claim not to know me, and then in the same post you claim to know my sexual orientation and my politics.   Kinda hypocritical, wouldn't you say?

As for any intellectual nature you think have been in your posts, all I have seen is name-calling and a link that did not support your claim.  Not setting the bar very high, are you?


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## GreenBean

WinterBorn said:


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> 
> 
> I think you have it reversed.  Straights would prefer gays stay in the closet.  Gays prefer promiscuity.  Therefore gays are more interested in straights as there more of us then them!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What straights are you talking about that prefer gays stay in the closet?
> 
> I am straight and do not care one bit.  In fact, I would find anyone who is that concerned about wanting gays to stay in the closet to be too interested in the gays.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am straight and do not care one bit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because you have latent homosexual tendencies - basically you're a closet fag.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LMAO!!    Oh please.  This is the sort of ignorant trolling that makes these forums so entertaining.   You are clueless about who I am, but somehow you know I am a "closet fag"?   Project much?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Obviously in addition to a low intellect - you also have a relatively short memory span.  I've bitch smacked you a few times on this forum - you're easy.  And so far as "clueless as to who you are" ... don't know who you are - don't really care  either - you're a nobody - text on a screen.
> 
> So far as what you are - yes my pompous little pretentious minion ,* I know exactly what you are.
> *
> Closet Fag - Latent Homosexual Tendencies yada yada yada ....   is a tactic used by your buddies in the queer militia aka the duckie boys or Gay Agenda - it's known as Jamming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The objective of jamming is to force opponents into silence by accusations of homophobia, latent homosexual tendencies and bigotry . The purpose being to create a social stigmatization of anyone whom opposes the Agenda. Jamming is to ridicule the opponent in the eyes of the world and to evoke the "pack mentality" .
> Gay Brainwashing Techniques
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just as the Feminazi comment - it was a libtard tactic thrown back in your face .
> 
> Conservatard ?  lol - i doubt anyone has called you that - although it's possible, you liberals are a pretty ignorant cluelless lot .  If it makes you feel any better - I know you're not a "conservatard"  too low info and low intellect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have no idea when you THINK you bitch smacked me.   It is obviously a figment of your imagination.
> 
> And, on the onehand you claim not to know me, and then in the same post you claim to know my sexual orientation and my politics.   Kinda hypocritical, wouldn't you say?
> 
> As for any intellectual nature you think have been in your posts, all I have seen is name-calling and a link that did not support your claim.  Not setting the bar very high, are you?
Click to expand...


Most of it went way over your head little buddy - I was simply feeling you out to see what you had - not much apparently -  I'll entertain myself with a higher caliber Libtard - have a nice life dumb ass


----------



## WinterBorn

GreenBean said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those are the ones who want to blame the women who were raped
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> What straights are you talking about that prefer gays stay in the closet?
> 
> I am straight and do not care one bit.  In fact, I would find anyone who is that concerned about wanting gays to stay in the closet to be too interested in the gays.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am straight and do not care one bit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because you have latent homosexual tendencies - basically you're a closet fag.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LMAO!!    Oh please.  This is the sort of ignorant trolling that makes these forums so entertaining.   You are clueless about who I am, but somehow you know I am a "closet fag"?   Project much?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Obviously in addition to a low intellect - you also have a relatively short memory span.  I've bitch smacked you a few times on this forum - you're easy.  And so far as "clueless as to who you are" ... don't know who you are - don't really care  either - you're a nobody - text on a screen.
> 
> So far as what you are - yes my pompous little pretentious minion ,* I know exactly what you are.
> *
> Closet Fag - Latent Homosexual Tendencies yada yada yada ....   is a tactic used by your buddies in the queer militia aka the duckie boys or Gay Agenda - it's known as Jamming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The objective of jamming is to force opponents into silence by accusations of homophobia, latent homosexual tendencies and bigotry . The purpose being to create a social stigmatization of anyone whom opposes the Agenda. Jamming is to ridicule the opponent in the eyes of the world and to evoke the "pack mentality" .
> Gay Brainwashing Techniques
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just as the Feminazi comment - it was a libtard tactic thrown back in your face .
> 
> Conservatard ?  lol - i doubt anyone has called you that - although it's possible, you liberals are a pretty ignorant cluelless lot .  If it makes you feel any better - I know you're not a "conservatard"  too low info and low intellect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have no idea when you THINK you bitch smacked me.   It is obviously a figment of your imagination.
> 
> And, on the onehand you claim not to know me, and then in the same post you claim to know my sexual orientation and my politics.   Kinda hypocritical, wouldn't you say?
> 
> As for any intellectual nature you think have been in your posts, all I have seen is name-calling and a link that did not support your claim.  Not setting the bar very high, are you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most of it went way over your head little buddy - I was simply feeling you out to see what you had - not much apparently -  I'll entertain myself with a higher caliber Libtard - have a nice life dumb ass
Click to expand...


Another delusional poster who takes it personally and offers little in the way of actual discussion.   What a surprise.


----------



## ninja007

gay people, most anyway say they wish they weren't gay. Other libs say why would anyone choose to be gay. Oh really?- here is your chance now.....


----------



## rdean

*Why is the gay community afraid of "conversion therapy"?*

More interesting is "Why are Republicans afraid of gays"?


----------



## rdean

ninja007 said:


> gay people, most anyway say they wish they weren't gay. Other libs say why would anyone choose to be gay. Oh really?- here is your chance now.....


So you are actually saying they couldn't choose.  They just were/are.


----------



## ninja007

rdean said:


> ninja007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> gay people, most anyway say they wish they weren't gay. Other libs say why would anyone choose to be gay. Oh really?- here is your chance now.....
> 
> 
> 
> So you are actually saying they couldn't choose.  They just were/are.
Click to expand...



libs say they were born that way, I don't believe that. BUT- IF they believe that, then whats the hesitation to try the therapy since supposedly they don't want to be gay....


----------



## rdean

ninja007 said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ninja007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> gay people, most anyway say they wish they weren't gay. Other libs say why would anyone choose to be gay. Oh really?- here is your chance now.....
> 
> 
> 
> So you are actually saying they couldn't choose.  They just were/are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> libs say they were born that way, I don't believe that. BUT- IF they believe that, then whats the hesitation to try the therapy since supposedly they don't want to be gay....
Click to expand...

Perhaps it's the fact it's never worked on any of the thousands who tried?


----------



## ninja007

rdean said:


> ninja007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ninja007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> gay people, most anyway say they wish they weren't gay. Other libs say why would anyone choose to be gay. Oh really?- here is your chance now.....
> 
> 
> 
> So you are actually saying they couldn't choose.  They just were/are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> libs say they were born that way, I don't believe that. BUT- IF they believe that, then whats the hesitation to try the therapy since supposedly they don't want to be gay....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps it's the fact it's never worked on any of the thousands who tried?
Click to expand...


it worked on many......


----------

