# Texas’ complex relationship with firearms: Leading America in gun sales, but with a declining gun ownership rate



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jul 28, 2022)

“Background checks for gun purchases in Texas rose during the weeks after the mass shooting in Uvalde that left 19 children and two teachers dead, according to the latest count from the federal government. It wasn’t the largest jump in background checks so far this year, but it’s part of a pattern that has followed most mass shootings for over a decade.

Background checks for guns rose an average of almost 10% following the El Paso, Santa Fe and Sutherland Springs mass shootings. But those events and their aftermath only provided a snapshot of the full, complicated picture of Texans’ relationship with guns and gun violence.









						Texas’ complex relationship with firearms: Leading America in gun sales, but with a declining gun ownership rate
					

We examine decades of data on gun ownership and gun violence to show trends across the state. Some of them might surprise you.




					www.texastribune.org
				




What isn’t complicated is the fact that guns aren’t going to be ‘banned’ the consequence of mass shootings.

Rushing out to buy guns after a mass shooting only results in shortages of both guns and ammunition.


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## miketx (Jul 28, 2022)

Lol, nothing but lies.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Jul 28, 2022)

And it’s not just the unwarranted fear that mass shootings will result in ‘bans’ – we see the same ignorance and stupidity from conservatives when a Democratic administration comes into office: shortages and the unavailability of ammunition and firearms based on the moronic lie that guns are going to be ‘banned.’


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## White 6 (Jul 28, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> And it’s not just the unwarranted fear that mass shootings will result in ‘bans’ – we see the same ignorance and stupidity from conservatives when a Democratic administration comes into office: shortages and the unavailability of ammunition and firearms based on the moronic lie that guns are going to be ‘banned.’


It get whistled up like callin Pavlov's dog and dinner time, and they lap it up.


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## miketx (Jul 28, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> And it’s not just the unwarranted fear that mass shootings will result in ‘bans’ – we see the same ignorance and stupidity from conservatives when a Democratic administration comes into office: shortages and the unavailability of ammunition and firearms based on the moronic lie that guns are going to be ‘banned.’


Oh really? So democrats aren't trying to get an assault weapon ban passed? Your lies are laughable.


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## 1srelluc (Jul 28, 2022)

I live for the next "panic".


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## johngaltshrugged (Jul 28, 2022)

miketx said:


> Oh really? So democrats aren't trying to get an assault weapon ban passed? Your lies are laughable.


I guess we are supposed to forget or ignore that they are actively trying to ban guns.
And that every time there is another incident they come out screeching about gun owners & how we are to blame.

Dems can't run on the truth so they have to resort to lying about what they are actually doing


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## BULLDOG (Jul 28, 2022)

miketx said:


> Oh really? So democrats aren't trying to get an assault weapon ban passed? Your lies are laughable.


Banning the one specific style gun that is universally accepted as the best, most effective weapon for a school shooter, or a mass shooter is not the same as banning every other type gun, dumb ass.


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## 1srelluc (Jul 28, 2022)

500K get-a-ways on our southern border and you wonder why Texans are arming themselves?


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## BULLDOG (Jul 28, 2022)

johngaltshrugged said:


> I guess we are supposed to forget or ignore that they are actively trying to ban guns.
> And that every time there is another incident they come out screeching about gun owners & how we are to blame.
> 
> Dems can't run on the truth so they have to resort to lying about what they are actually doing


Are all guns AR15 style guns? Other than the Military style Ar15 based guns, please list all the other type guns that are in danger of being regulated?


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## miketx (Jul 28, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> Are all guns AR15 style guns? Other than the Military style Ar15 based guns, please list all the other type guns that are in danger of being regulated?


All of them.


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## BULLDOG (Jul 28, 2022)

1srelluc said:


> 500K get-a-ways on our southern border and you wonder why Texans are arming themselves?


Nothing to wonder about. Hystrionic gun nuts are hystrionic and nuts.


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## BULLDOG (Jul 28, 2022)

miketx said:


> All of them.


Pull down your skirt. Your crazy is showing.


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## JGalt (Jul 28, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> “Background checks for gun purchases in Texas rose during the weeks after the mass shooting in Uvalde that left 19 children and two teachers dead, according to the latest count from the federal government. It wasn’t the largest jump in background checks so far this year, but it’s part of a pattern that has followed most mass shootings for over a decade.
> 
> Background checks for guns rose an average of almost 10% following the El Paso, Santa Fe and Sutherland Springs mass shootings. But those events and their aftermath only provided a snapshot of the full, complicated picture of Texans’ relationship with guns and gun violence.
> 
> ...



The idiots are using 2016 figures for the percentage of Texas adults living in a household with a firearm.  

What bullshit they're trying to get people to believe. The morons don't understand that if you didn't buy all the guns you needed by 2020, you weren't going to find them in 2021.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jul 28, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> Are all guns AR15 style guns? Other than the Military style Ar15 based guns, please list all the other type guns that are in danger of being regulated?



9mm pistols.
Remember biden said it was capable of removing a lung from a body.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jul 28, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> Nothing to wonder about. Hystrionic gun nuts are hystrionic and nuts.



  No,you're just ill informed or a fucken liar.


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## miketx (Jul 28, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> Pull down your skirt. Your crazy is showing.


Typical babble-ese. Always.


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## BULLDOG (Jul 28, 2022)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> 9mm pistols.
> Remember biden said it was capable of removing a lung from a body.


Please show any speeches, bills, or public statements proposing the ban of all 9mm weapons. If there is a real effort to ban all 9mm weapons I want to know about it.


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## JGalt (Jul 28, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> Are all guns AR15 style guns? Other than the Military style Ar15 based guns, please list all the other type guns that are in danger of being regulated?



Please educate yourself. I don't have the time to deal with your ignorance.


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## BULLDOG (Jul 28, 2022)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> No,you're just ill informed or a fucken liar.


My mistake. I should have added that they are also cowards.


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## BULLDOG (Jul 28, 2022)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> No,you're just ill informed or a fucken liar.


So inform me. What efforts has Biden taken to ban 9mm weapons?


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## johngaltshrugged (Jul 28, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> Are all guns AR15 style guns? Other than the Military style Ar15 based guns, please list all the other type guns that are in danger of being regulated?


You really are an uniformed prog aren't you?
Let's forget the AR15 is already the most popular rifle in America and just see the other guns this latest bill tried to ban:

_But the language of H.R. 1808 also makes clear the legislation bans numerous semiautomatic pistols as well.

The ban applies to *semiautomatic pistols with detachable magazines and threaded barrels.* Because of the popularity of suppressors for hearing protection, nearly every semiautomatic pistol manufacturer makes pistol models with threaded barrels. This means an untold number of semiautomatic pistols would be banned by H.R. 1808.

Also, any *semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine capable of holding more than ten rounds* would be banned, as would any *semiautomatic shotgun with a fixed magazine holding more than five rounds.*

H.R. 1808 also bans *semiautomatic shotguns that accept detachable magazines and have a pistol grip.*_









						Democrats' 'Assault Weapons' Ban Prohibits Semiautomatic Pistols Too
					

The "assault weapons" ban legislation that passed the House Judiciary Committee Wednesday not only prohibits AR-15s and AK-47s.




					www.breitbart.com
				




I won't give up any of my guns. Ever. No amount of crying & fear engineered fear porn will change my mind


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Jul 28, 2022)

miketx said:


> Oh really? So democrats aren't trying to get an assault weapon ban passed? Your lies are laughable.


Yes, really.

In October of 2020 I bought an SAA clone, and there was a plentiful selection; .45 Colt was also readily available and reasonably priced.

In the spring of 2021, I thought about adding another SAA clone to the collection – but none were to be found; .45 Colt was also hard to find, and what could be found was ridiculously expensive.

Some of that was pandemic-related – material shortages, supply line problems; but much of it was due to idiot conservatives buying up guns and ammunition because they wrongly believed the lie President Biden was going to ‘ban’ firearms.


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## miketx (Jul 28, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Yes, really.
> 
> In October of 2020 I bought an SAA clone, and there was a plentiful selection; .45 Colt was also readily available and reasonably priced.
> 
> ...


He's trying to ban them right now liar.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Jul 28, 2022)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> 9mm pistols.
> Remember biden said it was capable of removing a lung from a body.


And nothing about ‘banning’ 9mm pistols.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Jul 28, 2022)

miketx said:


> He's trying to ban them right now liar.


Mass shootings will result in ‘bans,’ a Democratic president taking office will result in ‘bans’ – nothing but lies and demagoguery from the right.

For eight years conservatives lied about President Obama ‘banning’ guns – it never happened.

Scores of mass shootings over the years and not one gun ‘banned.’

Guns being ‘banned’ is among the right’s most moronic and reprehensible lies.


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## BULLDOG (Jul 28, 2022)

johngaltshrugged said:


> You really are an uniformed prog aren't you?
> Let's forget the AR15 is already the most popular rifle in America and just see the other guns this latest bill tried to ban:
> 
> _But the language of H.R. 1808 also makes clear the legislation bans numerous semiautomatic pistols as well.
> ...


So all pistols that ever had a version with a threaded barrel would be banned and confiscated, right? Sounds to me like they were just stopping the future manufacture of threaded barrels, and extended capacity magazines. Of course, existing guns with those features would still be legal just like fully automatic rifles are available today. Quit exaggerating, you big baby.


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## Seymour Flops (Jul 28, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> And it’s not just the unwarranted fear that mass shootings will result in ‘bans’ – we see the same ignorance and stupidity from conservatives when a Democratic administration comes into office: shortages and the unavailability of ammunition and firearms based on the moronic lie that guns are going to be ‘banned.’


No, they are not going to be banned.  But that won't be for lack of trying.









						O'Rourke Promises To 'Take Your AR-15,' But Americans Are Split On Buybacks
					

The former Texas congressman promised a mandatory buyback program for assault-style weapons. Public support for such a program is divided.




					www.npr.org
				




*Quoting the candidate's past comment about selling back AR-15s and AK-47s, moderator David Muir asked O'Rourke: "Are you proposing taking away their guns? And how would this work?"

O'Rourke answered, "Hell, yes, we're going to take your AR-15, your AK-47."*


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## Vrenn (Jul 28, 2022)

johngaltshrugged said:


> You really are an uniformed prog aren't you?
> Let's forget the AR15 is already the most popular rifle in America and just see the other guns this latest bill tried to ban:
> 
> _But the language of H.R. 1808 also makes clear the legislation bans numerous semiautomatic pistols as well.
> ...



I just read it.  What I see is a ban on the AR/AKsl and submachine guns that fire semiauto.  It also lists one model of the Mini14 but not all of them.  It's pretty specific on what it bans.  And not a single one of these have any use other than a serious target shooter or a mass murderer.  And most Serious Target Shooters don't mind to be registered because that registration also covers firearms covered in the 1934 law.  

Now about you gunnutters claiming that anything with a 10 round or more would be banned.  Actually, using the Heller V ruling and a few other rulings at the Federal Court level, that figure is 15 and the HR does say excess of 15.    And it includes the semiauto M249 and other belt fed firearms as being "Banned".

I don't like the word banned.  Most of the guns that are prohibited on the HR can be legal if you file a EFL license and pay for the permits.  They aren't really banned and any US Citizen in good standings can qualify to not only possess them but to also operate them.  

HR 1808 is very comprehensive and definately was drawn up by a bunch of people highly well versed in firearms.


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## Vrenn (Jul 28, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> So all pistols that ever had a version with a threaded barrel would be banned and confiscated, right? Sounds to me like they were just stopping the future manufacture of threaded barrels, and extended capacity magazines. Of course, existing guns with those features would still be legal just like fully automatic rifles are available today. Quit exaggerating, you big baby.



 They would be regulated and any US citizen in good standings can have them with the proper permits.


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## johngaltshrugged (Jul 28, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> They would be regulated and any US citizen in good standings can have them with the proper permits.


So, in your mind, the 2A isn't a right, it is a permission. Sounds like an infringement & that won't work for me


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## miketx (Jul 28, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> “Background checks for gun purchases in Texas rose during the weeks after the mass shooting in Uvalde that left 19 children and two teachers dead, according to the latest count from the federal government. It wasn’t the largest jump in background checks so far this year, but it’s part of a pattern that has followed most mass shootings for over a decade.
> 
> Background checks for guns rose an average of almost 10% following the El Paso, Santa Fe and Sutherland Springs mass shootings. But those events and their aftermath only provided a snapshot of the full, complicated picture of Texans’ relationship with guns and gun violence.
> 
> ...





C_Clayton_Jones said:


> And it’s not just the unwarranted fear that mass shootings will result in ‘bans’ – we see the same ignorance and stupidity from conservatives when a Democratic administration comes into office: shortages and the unavailability of ammunition and firearms based on the moronic lie that guns are going to be ‘banned.’





White 6 said:


> It get whistled up like callin Pavlov's dog and dinner time, and they lap it up.





BULLDOG said:


> Banning the one specific style gun that is universally accepted as the best, most effective weapon for a school shooter, or a mass shooter is not the same as banning every other type gun, dumb ass.





BULLDOG said:


> Are all guns AR15 style guns? Other than the Military style Ar15 based guns, please list all the other type guns that are in danger of being regulated?





BULLDOG said:


> Nothing to wonder about. Hystrionic gun nuts are hystrionic and nuts.





BULLDOG said:


> Pull down your skirt. Your crazy is showing.





BULLDOG said:


> Please show any speeches, bills, or public statements proposing the ban of all 9mm weapons. If there is a real effort to ban all 9mm weapons I want to know about it.





BULLDOG said:


> My mistake. I should have added that they are also cowards.





BULLDOG said:


> So inform me. What efforts has Biden taken to ban 9mm weapons?





C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Yes, really.
> 
> In October of 2020 I bought an SAA clone, and there was a plentiful selection; .45 Colt was also readily available and reasonably priced.
> 
> ...





C_Clayton_Jones said:


> And nothing about ‘banning’ 9mm pistols.





C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Mass shootings will result in ‘bans,’ a Democratic president taking office will result in ‘bans’ – nothing but lies and demagoguery from the right.
> 
> For eight years conservatives lied about President Obama ‘banning’ guns – it never happened.
> 
> ...





BULLDOG said:


> So all pistols that ever had a version with a threaded barrel would be banned and confiscated, right? Sounds to me like they were just stopping the future manufacture of threaded barrels, and extended capacity magazines. Of course, existing guns with those features would still be legal just like fully automatic rifles are available today. Quit exaggerating, you big baby.





Vrenn said:


> I just read it.  What I see is a ban on the AR/AKsl and submachine guns that fire semiauto.  It also lists one model of the Mini14 but not all of them.  It's pretty specific on what it bans.  And not a single one of these have any use other than a serious target shooter or a mass murderer.  And most Serious Target Shooters don't mind to be registered because that registration also covers firearms covered in the 1934 law.
> 
> Now about you gunnutters claiming that anything with a 10 round or more would be banned.  Actually, using the Heller V ruling and a few other rulings at the Federal Court level, that figure is 15 and the HR does say excess of 15.    And it includes the semiauto M249 and other belt fed firearms as being "Banned".
> 
> ...





Vrenn said:


> They would be regulated and any US citizen in good standings can have them with the proper permits.


This is what desperate lying traitors look like!


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jul 28, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> Please show any speeches, bills, or public statements proposing the ban of all 9mm weapons. If there is a real effort to ban all 9mm weapons I want to know about it.



  Do you agree that biden said a 9mm is capable of blowing a lung clean out of a body?


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jul 28, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> My mistake. I should have added that they are also cowards.



So you're gonna go with liar....


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jul 28, 2022)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> 9mm pistols.
> Remember biden said it was capable of removing a lung from a body.



  I see Clayton doesnt believe biden said a 9mm will remove a lung.
Is that true Clayton?


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jul 28, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> So inform me. What efforts has Biden taken to ban 9mm weapons?



   Here's a reading list for you.




__





						biden wants to ban 9mm hand guns - Google Search
					





					www.google.com


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jul 28, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> And nothing about ‘banning’ 9mm pistols.



    Ask yourself this.
If a 9mm was capable of removing a lung when even a 5.56 cant do that wouldnt you think he'd want to ban the 9mm along with the 5.56?
    I realize thinking is tough for you but I'd like you to really try,if you start smelling burning wood just ignore it.


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## White 6 (Jul 28, 2022)

miketx said:


> This is what desperate lying traitors look like!


You are pretty loose about who you label as traitors.  Whose flag did you salute daily for 20 plus years?


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## Calypso Jones (Jul 28, 2022)

declining gun ownership rate........that sorta sounds to me like people are on longer registering their guns.


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## miketx (Jul 28, 2022)

White 6 said:


> You are pretty loose about who you label as traitors.  Whose flag did you salute daily for 20 plus years?


Not yours.


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## White 6 (Jul 28, 2022)

miketx said:


> Not yours.


Then you should go back to your home country.


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## BULLDOG (Jul 28, 2022)

miketx said:


> This is what desperate lying traitors look like!


Yet you can't point out where any of it is wrong.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jul 28, 2022)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Do you agree that biden said a 9mm is capable of blowing a lung clean out of a body?



What are you laughing at White 6?


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## BULLDOG (Jul 28, 2022)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Do you agree that biden said a 9mm is capable of blowing a lung clean out of a body?


I guess he could have. I didn't hear it. Is he trying to ban all bullets big enough to blow a lung out? Where is the lung saving gun regulation bill that you are referencing?


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## frigidweirdo (Jul 28, 2022)

1srelluc said:


> 500K get-a-ways on our southern border and you wonder why Texans are arming themselves?



As if that's the reason they're buying guns.


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## BULLDOG (Jul 28, 2022)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Here's a reading list for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


fuck your reading list. credible link?


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## 1srelluc (Jul 28, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> Nothing to wonder about. Hystrionic gun nuts are hystrionic and nuts.


Us "gun nuts" have ours already.....It's the casual gun-owner that might have a Fudd gun or three that's currently up-arming to a AR and some flavor of 9mm "lung-buster" handgun, that and first time gun owners getting into the game.

Back during the *B*urn-*L*oot-*M*urder troubles you could not find a 12 ga shotgun. Hell, $250 Mossberg 88 HD shotguns were selling for $600+.....00 Buckshot was going for $2.00 a round if you could find it....I saw two 5' tall pallets of Turkish-made HD pump shotguns sell-out in a weekend at one shop.

It was not "gun nuts" buying them, it was a concerned citizenry.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jul 28, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> fuck your reading list. credible link?



 What? bidens own words aren't enough for you?
    You and your leftwing buddies are a fucken joke.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jul 28, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> fuck your reading list. credible link?



   You've always been the biggest joke on this board.
  You can be shown pages of info that proves you wrong yet you continue to flap your gums.
     How about you give me a credible link proving me wrong?
   You cant because that link doesn't exist.


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## westwall (Jul 28, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> “Background checks for gun purchases in Texas rose during the weeks after the mass shooting in Uvalde that left 19 children and two teachers dead, according to the latest count from the federal government. It wasn’t the largest jump in background checks so far this year, but it’s part of a pattern that has followed most mass shootings for over a decade.
> 
> Background checks for guns rose an average of almost 10% following the El Paso, Santa Fe and Sutherland Springs mass shootings. But those events and their aftermath only provided a snapshot of the full, complicated picture of Texans’ relationship with guns and gun violence.
> 
> ...





Texans have enough, dumbass.  There is no decrease in gun owners.   There is an INCREASE.

These are NEW buyers.

DURRRRRR


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## Papageorgio (Jul 28, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> “Background checks for gun purchases in Texas rose during the weeks after the mass shooting in Uvalde that left 19 children and two teachers dead, according to the latest count from the federal government. It wasn’t the largest jump in background checks so far this year, but it’s part of a pattern that has followed most mass shootings for over a decade.
> 
> Background checks for guns rose an average of almost 10% following the El Paso, Santa Fe and Sutherland Springs mass shootings. But those events and their aftermath only provided a snapshot of the full, complicated picture of Texans’ relationship with guns and gun violence.
> 
> ...


None of your busines, why do you feel a need to control others?


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## BULLDOG (Jul 28, 2022)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> What? bidens own words aren't enough for you?
> You and your leftwing buddies are a fucken joke.


And exactly what were Biden's own words?


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## 1srelluc (Jul 28, 2022)

westwall said:


> Texans have enough, dumbass.  There is no decrease in gun owners.   There is an INCREASE.
> 
> These are NEW buyers.
> 
> DURRRRRR


LOL....Maybe the leftists will feel safer if they mistakenly think less people are buying guns.....Leftists should be scared because the trouble they gin-up might come back to bite them in the ass.


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## BULLDOG (Jul 28, 2022)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> You've always been the biggest joke on this board.
> You can be shown pages of info that proves you wrong yet you continue to flap your gums.
> How about you give me a credible link proving me wrong?
> You cant because that link doesn't exist.


Not my job to prove your stoooopid claim. You should have at least 1 credible link that hows Biden attempting to ban all 9mm guns.


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## 1srelluc (Jul 28, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> Not my job to prove your stoooopid claim. You should have at least 1 credible link that hows Biden attempting to ban all 9mm guns.


LOL.....Good luck with that.


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## Failzero (Jul 28, 2022)

miketx said:


> All of them.


All Semi Auto Centerfire with detachable magazine


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## BULLDOG (Jul 29, 2022)

Failzero said:


> All Semi Auto Centerfire with detachable magazine


credible link?


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## miketx (Jul 29, 2022)

Failzero said:


> All Semi Auto Centerfire with detachable magazine


Revolvers next.


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## miketx (Jul 29, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> Yet you can't point out where any of it is wrong.


All is wrong, liar. Now keep on spewing your lies.


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## 2aguy (Jul 29, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> Banning the one specific style gun that is universally accepted as the best, most effective weapon for a school shooter, or a mass shooter is not the same as banning every other type gun, dumb ass.



moron….the AR-15 is the Trojan horse gun….if you idiots can ban that, then there would be no argument against banning all other semi-automatic guns…rifles, pistols and shotguns since they all operate the same way…………

When two mass public shooters armed with AR-15 rifles were stopped by two normal people, not cops, not soldiers, armed with just hand guns..your stupid point is meaningless…


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## 2aguy (Jul 29, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> Are all guns AR15 style guns? Other than the Military style Ar15 based guns, please list all the other type guns that are in danger of being regulated?



Semi-automatic guns………I posted a thread on the latest demands that make them illegal if the democrats get their way.


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## westwall (Jul 29, 2022)

2aguy said:


> moron….the AR-15 is the Trojan horse gun….if you idiots can ban that, then there would be no argument against banning all other semi-automatic guns…rifles, pistols and shotguns since they all operate the same way…………
> 
> When two mass public shooters armed with AR-15 rifles were stopped by two normal people, not cops, not soldiers, armed with just hand guns..your stupid point is meaningless…




Not just meaningless,  but patently wrong.


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## 2aguy (Jul 29, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> Please show any speeches, bills, or public statements proposing the ban of all 9mm weapons. If there is a real effort to ban all 9mm weapons I want to know about it.



You idiot….

*This video from pro-freedom patriot Colion Noir gives a good rundown on the facts in this case.

Most damning is this exchange between Dan Bishop (R) and chairman of the Judiciary Committee Jerry Nadler (D) in a congressional committee meeting during the markup of the bill on July 20, 2022:

Bishop: Is there anyone on the other side that would dispute that this bill would ban weapons that are in common use in the United States today?

Nadler: Yeah, that's the point of the bill.


Bishop: To clarify, Mr. Chairman, you're saying it is the point of the bill to ban weapons that are in common use in the United States today?

Nadler: Yes, the problem is they are in common use.
————————
The bottom line is that if you have a semi-automatic rifle with a detachable magazine with "any other characteristic that can function as a grip," or a semi-automatic pistol that has a magazine that is not a fixed magazine with one of the myriad features listed, then congratulations! You're now the proud owner of an "assault weapon."

Does anyone want to wager that the phrase "function as a grip" is going to be subjectively interpreted in the same manner that a piece of plastic was deemed to be a "machine gun"? Because that might be the only way of distinguishing between a gun that is "allowed" under this unconstitutional monstrosity and an "assault weapon."

Unlike the old ban, you need only one feature, not two, to be in the "assault weapon" club these days. Plus, to sweeten the deal, they've decided to also ban standard-capacity magazines. Because tyranny is never satisfied with halfway measures.

But not to worry: the anti-liberty left ever so graciously exempts — for now — certain types of firearms:*


> *(3) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to any firearm that—
> (A) is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever, or slide action ...*











						Yep, it's true! They're coming for your guns.
					

Democrat Rep. David N




					www.americanthinker.com


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## BULLDOG (Jul 29, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Semi-automatic guns………I posted a thread on the latest demands that make them illegal if the democrats get their way.


You've posted lots of crazy shit. Your imagination plus your paranoia makes you a truly pathetic pile of Jello.


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## Missourian (Jul 29, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> Please show any speeches, bills, or public statements proposing the ban of all 9mm weapons. If there is a real effort to ban all 9mm weapons I want to know about it.











						Biden calls 9mm ‘high-caliber weapons,’ suggests banning them
					

President Biden spoke to reporters about his thoughts on 9mm handguns, calling them "high-caliber" and claiming that the Constitution is not "absolute."




					www.foxnews.com


----------



## woodwork201 (Jul 29, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> “Background checks for gun purchases in Texas rose during the weeks after the mass shooting in Uvalde that left 19 children and two teachers dead, according to the latest count from the federal government. It wasn’t the largest jump in background checks so far this year, but it’s part of a pattern that has followed most mass shootings for over a decade.
> 
> Background checks for guns rose an average of almost 10% following the El Paso, Santa Fe and Sutherland Springs mass shootings. But those events and their aftermath only provided a snapshot of the full, complicated picture of Texans’ relationship with guns and gun violence.
> 
> ...


Why am I not surprised that your thread title is so misleading?

The number of gun owners is up but the population growth (you know, millions of illegal aliens) is outpacing the gun sales.  It's not that the rate of citizens owning guns is down as if fewer people owned more guns each.

And the rush on guns and ammunition doesn't create shortages except for those who didn't think ahead.  The rush on guns and ammunition actually means that there are more guns and ammunition in the hands of those who need them the most: the people.   If you didn't get what you want, well,  tough shit.


----------



## jbrownson0831 (Jul 29, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> And it’s not just the unwarranted fear that mass shootings will result in ‘bans’ – we see the same ignorance and stupidity from conservatives when a Democratic administration comes into office: shortages and the unavailability of ammunition and firearms based on the moronic lie that guns are going to be ‘banned.’


Sooo....you Dimmers dont buy guns?


----------



## jbrownson0831 (Jul 29, 2022)

White 6 said:


> It get whistled up like callin Pavlov's dog and dinner time, and they lap it up.


A lefty comparing us to Pavlov's dog?  Hahahahaha good one.


----------



## jbrownson0831 (Jul 29, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Yes, really.
> 
> In October of 2020 I bought an SAA clone, and there was a plentiful selection; .45 Colt was also readily available and reasonably priced.
> 
> ...


So you are one of the idiots who goes out and buys in a panic??


----------



## woodwork201 (Jul 29, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> And it’s not just the unwarranted fear that mass shootings will result in ‘bans’ – we see the same ignorance and stupidity from conservatives when a Democratic administration comes into office: shortages and the unavailability of ammunition and firearms based on the moronic lie that guns are going to be ‘banned.’


Why would the threat of bans cause people to buy more guns? Are you suggesting that people want to buy them just so the government can take them away?  That's not too smart on the part of anyone that thinks like you do.

How is there a shortage of firearms or ammunition?  I'm not really seeing either.  

I know that there's 10% inflation.  

I know that the prices for metals and other component parts used in ammunition are increasing at a far higher pace than even the ridiculously high Biden inflation rate - and not just for ammunition suppliers but for everyone.  For instance, Copper is up 50% since Biden took office.  It's down in recent weeks so maybe that will help ammunition prices soon - depending on stability and other metals, too, but with the recession combined with 400+ billion new spending and 300+ billion new taxes?  No; the price won't stay down.





__





						Copper - 2022 Data - 1988-2021 Historical - 2023 Forecast - Price - Quote - Chart
					

Copper futures fell to below $3.5 per pound, retreating from the six-week high of $3.6 hit on October 26 amid prolonged recession fears and expectations of low demand for industrial inputs. Fresh data showed that industrial profits in top consumer China fell 2.3% annually in the first three...




					tradingeconomics.com
				




I know that there are still hundreds of ships piled up outside our ports waiting to unload because Democrats won't open the ports to capacity and Biden is still paying workers to not work.  This is leading to shortages and delays in critical components for every industry, leading to more increased prices.





__





						Live Map of Vessels Outside the Port of LA and Port of Long Beach – M.E. Dey & Co.
					






					www.medey.com
				




I know that a lot of new gun owners are purchasing guns with well over 5 million new gun owners buying guns and ammunition since the pandemic began so there's that whole supply and demand thing there, too.  



			https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-12-21/5-million-more-americans-became-gun-owners-during-pandemic
		


But those new gun owners aren't panicking about confiscation - only an idiot would put their money into something they thought was going to be confiscated.  Those 5+ million people saw 400 cops do nothing while children were slowly, methodically, evilly, killed and realized that their safety and the safety of their families is in their own hands.

I remember when I first started buying guns.  There were a lot of guns in the manufacturers' catalogs that I wanted but they just weren't available.  That goes clear back to the 80s.  There have always been ebbs and flows of particular model availability, as manufacturers focus on one model over others. There's nothing new there and I don't see anything changed today.  Guns I can't get today will be available in a few weeks/months.  The guns I can get today will likely not be on the shelves with 100% consistency over the next year or years.  Nothing new.


So,  yes, there's some increased demand.  Between demand and Biden, prices are way up for ammunition.  But, really, I don't see any problem.  I can get just about any gun I want.  You're really making a mountain out of a molehill.


----------



## White 6 (Jul 29, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Why would the threat of bans cause people to buy more guns? Are you suggesting that people want to buy them just so the government can take them away?  That's not too smart on the part of anyone that thinks like you do.
> 
> How is there a shortage of firearms or ammunition?  I'm not really seeing either.
> 
> ...


They might want to buy them to get in before the ban, possibly being grandfathered.  This does come up, every time somebody talks about a ban.


----------



## White 6 (Jul 29, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Semi-automatic guns………I posted a thread on the latest demands that make them illegal if the democrats get their way.


2aguy,  I still do not see them getting their way, nor should they.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jul 29, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> Banning the one specific style gun that is universally accepted as the best, most effective weapon for a school shooter, or a mass shooter is not the same as banning every other type gun, dumb ass.


Are you seriously suggesting that the AR-15 is the best, most effective, weapon for a school shooter?  You don't really know much about guns, do you?

An AR-15 is a terrible choice for a school shooter.  They're popular because of the computer games that these psycho, isolated, kids play and the movies they watch, but they're far from the best suited to the task.

I'm not going to give you a how to so you can go try it out but there are a lot of handguns with high capacity factory mags, much more maneuverable in close quarters, far more concealable, easier to handle.

The best solution to school shootings is to quit telling kids that they're evil and everyone hates them and that everyone is justified in hating them.  

Of course we need an interim solution for dealing with the millions of kids that were raised on those public school lessons, and for that, arm the teachers, teacher assistants, let parents put together an armed patrol in schools.  Or, even just let the parents that want to go stop the shooter, and the cops that want to go stop the shooter, go stop the shooter.  Instead, in Uvalde, they forcibly stopped parents and real cops from ending it far sooner.  

The Uvalde shooter had to be shocked that he was allowed to keep shooting for so long.  He was probably secretly wishing they'd come in and end it, but they didn't.


----------



## marvin martian (Jul 29, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> “Background checks for gun purchases in Texas rose during the weeks after the mass shooting in Uvalde that left 19 children and two teachers dead, according to the latest count from the federal government. It wasn’t the largest jump in background checks so far this year, but it’s part of a pattern that has followed most mass shootings for over a decade.
> 
> Background checks for guns rose an average of almost 10% following the El Paso, Santa Fe and Sutherland Springs mass shootings. But those events and their aftermath only provided a snapshot of the full, complicated picture of Texans’ relationship with guns and gun violence.
> 
> ...



I thought your lie was that we don't do background checks.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jul 29, 2022)

johngaltshrugged said:


> You really are an uniformed prog aren't you?
> Let's forget the AR15 is already the most popular rifle in America and just see the other guns this latest bill tried to ban:
> 
> _But the language of H.R. 1808 also makes clear the legislation bans numerous semiautomatic pistols as well.
> ...


The gun that amazes me that they would ban is any shotgun with a revolving cylinder magazine like the Taurus/Rossi Circuit Judge .410/.45LC.  Just how fucking stupid is banning that and what scares them so much about it?


----------



## woodwork201 (Jul 29, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Yes, really.
> 
> In October of 2020 I bought an SAA clone, and there was a plentiful selection; .45 Colt was also readily available and reasonably priced.
> 
> ...


Because the SAA is the primary gun for gangland thugs and home defense, right?

SAAs have been hard to get for decades, mostly driven by the Cowboy Action Shooting enthusiasts and other collectors.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jul 29, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> What isn’t complicated is the fact that guns aren’t going to be ‘banned’ the consequence of mass shootings.


He says as House Democrats prepare to pass the 2022 'assault weapon' ban.


----------



## Failzero (Jul 29, 2022)

It passed 215-210 ( No Republicans voted for it )


----------



## woodwork201 (Jul 29, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> I just read it.  What I see is a ban on the AR/AKsl and submachine guns that fire semiauto.  It also lists one model of the Mini14 but not all of them.  It's pretty specific on what it bans.  And not a single one of these have any use other than a serious target shooter or a mass murderer.  And most Serious Target Shooters don't mind to be registered because that registration also covers firearms covered in the 1934 law.


What is a semiauto machine gun?  So any semi-automatic is a machine gun and should be banned?   Or is it only the ugly black ones?  Why do you hate ugly black things?  You really have some deep seated racial fears, don't you? 

And you're also wrong about the use of semi-automatic weapons.  Ever go shooting prairie dogs?  You have to stay a few hundred yards off and shoot a lot of them.  The holes they create injure domestic and while animals.

There have been plenty of posts on this site of ARs being used successfully in defense against a gang of attackers or home invaders and plenty of posts showing that even cops can shoot many rounds and not hit a thing when they're under fire as well so high-capacity mags on an AR are critical for many home defense scenarios.

And, no, target shooters are not willing to register their guns.  What would be the purpose for registering them?  Are you suggesting NFA style taxes and regulations to own a semi-automatic weapon?


Vrenn said:


> Now about you gunnutters claiming that anything with a 10 round or more would be banned.  Actually, using the Heller V ruling and a few other rulings at the Federal Court level, that figure is 15 and the HR does say excess of 15.    And it includes the semiauto M249 and other belt fed firearms as being "Banned".


Please explain where you see a 10-round or 15-round legal limitation?  New York's is 7 rounds.  Others have suggested a 6-round limit.


Vrenn said:


> I don't like the word banned.  Most of the guns that are prohibited on the HR can be legal if you file a EFL license and pay for the permits.  They aren't really banned and any US Citizen in good standings can qualify to not only possess them but to also operate them.


Just as soon as you support voter ID, background checks, voting tax, then get back to me.  It won't change the Constitution but your argument is filled with ignorance, stupidity, and hypocrisy.



Vrenn said:


> HR 1808 is very comprehensive and definately was drawn up by a bunch of people highly well versed in firearms.


Actually, HR-1808 was drawn up by a bunch of people who know nothing at all about firearms.  For instance:

A collapsible stock does not make the gun concealable.  With the collapsible stock fully collapsed (you know, like a petite woman might want to shoot safely - but Dems hate women) the gun must still meet minimum length requirements so the law does nothing.

Banning shotguns with a revolving cylinder?  Really?  Are they that afraid of the .410 shotgun?  There are no revolver shotguns other than a .410.  What pussies the left are.

They are calling the Hi-Point carbine an assault rifle.  Really!  They're absolutely nuts.  It's a great little camp gun or farm gun for protection against varmints, coyotes, etc., but it's not even close to being an AR.

They just don't like ugly guns.

There's not a single attribute of what they're calling an assault rifle that makes the gun any more dangerous or deadly than any other gun.

Since an assault weapons ban would not do a thing to stop crime, it is not possible that this would be the end.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jul 29, 2022)

miketx said:


> Revolvers next.


There have been proposed laws that define a semi-automatic as any gun where a single pull of the trigger fires a round and leaves the gun in the position such that another pull of the trigger fires another round.  

That description includes revolvers as semi-automatic weapons.  They want single-shot only with the slight exception of a bolt-action.  Some descriptions have explicitly included lever-actions, too... because, you know... The Rifleman..


----------



## AMart (Jul 29, 2022)

LOL Texas Tribune 1 look at the corporate donors page yuck.


----------



## BULLDOG (Jul 29, 2022)

Missourian said:


> Biden calls 9mm ‘high-caliber weapons,’ suggests banning them
> 
> 
> President Biden spoke to reporters about his thoughts on 9mm handguns, calling them "high-caliber" and claiming that the Constitution is not "absolute."
> ...


From your link
"President Biden on Monday took aim at 9mm handguns, appearing to suggest that the "high-caliber weapons" ought to be banned."

Appearing to suggest something might be is not the same as trying to do that thing.  The claim that they are the same as an exaggerated lie. It might help you stir up the gun nuts, but we both know it's just more conspiracy theory bullshit. If you have any legitimate , credible reason to believe your crap, I would be interested, but your current whining is just childish exaggeration.


----------



## Missourian (Jul 29, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> From your link
> "President Biden on Monday took aim at 9mm handguns, appearing to suggest that the "high-caliber weapons" ought to be banned."
> 
> Appearing to suggest something might be is not the same as trying to do that thing.  The claim that they are the same as an exaggerated lie. It might help you stir up the gun nuts, but we both know it's just more conspiracy theory bullshit. If you have any legitimate , credible reason to believe your crap, I would be interested, but your current whining is just childish exaggeration.


It's not an exaggerated lie...this is exactly how it starts.

When the President of the United States appears to suggest that 9mm pistols are "high-caliber weapons" that ought to be banned...I sit up and take notice.

So does everyone else.


----------



## BULLDOG (Jul 29, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> There have been proposed laws that define a semi-automatic as any gun where a single pull of the trigger fires a round and leaves the gun in the position such that another pull of the trigger fires another round.
> 
> That description includes revolvers as semi-automatic weapons.  They want single-shot only with the slight exception of a bolt-action.  Some descriptions have explicitly included lever-actions, too... because, you know... The Rifleman..


And how many of those definitions you mention actually became law?


----------



## BULLDOG (Jul 29, 2022)

Missourian said:


> It's not an exaggerated lie...this is exactly how it starts.
> 
> When the President of the United States appears to suggest that 9mm pistols are "high-caliber weapons" that ought to be banned...I sit up and take notice.
> 
> So does everyone else.


Take notice all you want, but if you claim that is an effort to ban guns, it is an exaggerated lie.


----------



## westwall (Jul 29, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> Take notice all you want, but if you claim that is an effort to ban guns, it is an exaggerated lie.





Not according to nadler.


----------



## Missourian (Jul 29, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> Take notice all you want, but if you claim that is an effort to ban guns, it is an exaggerated lie.


Is that the rule?  Cuz team leftist is making hay over banning gay marriage...

If just mentioning it isn't the same as an effort to remove a right...have you taken any if them to task?

Of course not "because they just overturned Roe".

And Pelosi introduce another AWB, and the President claimed that a 9mm would "blow a lung right out of your body".

So,  yeah...it sounds like laying the groundwork...and IMO...if public opinion wasn't 80% against it...they'd do it tomorrow.

Just look to Canada ... bet those gun owner were lulled by either willfully ignorant or intentionally deceitful folk into beleiving ...oh, it will only be AR15s....oh, it will only be a handgun registration...oh,  don't fret,  they'll never come for your guns ...









						The complete ban list of newly prohibited firearms in Canada as of May 1 2020
					

Ensure you are properly covered, Join The Silvercore Club Regulations Amending the Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and Other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridg…



					silvercore.ca


----------



## Vrenn (Jul 29, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> What is a semiauto machine gun?  So any semi-automatic is a machine gun and should be banned?   Or is it only the ugly black ones?  Why do you hate ugly black things?  You really have some deep seated racial fears, don't you?
> 
> And you're also wrong about the use of semi-automatic weapons.  Ever go shooting prairie dogs?  You have to stay a few hundred yards off and shoot a lot of them.  The holes they create injure domestic and while animals.
> 
> ...



And you need that collapsible stock to hunt prairie chickens.  And what other mods is done?  




woodwork201 said:


> Banning shotguns with a revolving cylinder?  Really?  Are they that afraid of the .410 shotgun?  There are no revolver shotguns other than a .410.  What pussies the left are.



It isn't banning a thing.  You want that weapon, file the proper paperwork and don't be a criminal or Excon.  




woodwork201 said:


> They are calling the Hi-Point carbine an assault rifle.  Really!  They're absolutely nuts.  It's a great little camp gun or farm gun for protection against varmints, coyotes, etc., but it's not even close to being an AR.



It has accessories that would make many ARs jealous.  Including a threaded barrel designed to use a silencer.  And subsonic ammo like the 9mm and 45ACP which can benefit from that silencer.   If they offered it without the threaded barrel then it wouldn't make the list.    And again, it's not being banned, it's being regulated.




woodwork201 said:


> They just don't like ugly guns.
> 
> There's not a single attribute of what they're calling an assault rifle that makes the gun any more dangerous or deadly than any other gun.
> 
> Since an assault weapons ban would not do a thing to stop crime, it is not possible that this would be the end.



There are many items that can qualify as an Assault Rifle.  The Caliber doesn't mean a thing.  It's the fact it can be used as a Military Rifle first and everything else after that.

All this type of law does is make you, the gunnutter, have to register certain weapons and have proper permits.  But if you really want to be banned, fine.  You are banned.  See how easy that was?


----------



## miketx (Jul 29, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> It's the fact it can be used as a Military Rifle first and everything else after that.


Any gun can be used as a military gun, commie. Even a snub nosed revolver. Do you have a point other than being a commie gun banner?


----------



## Missourian (Jul 29, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> It's the fact it can be used as a Military Rifle first and everything else after that


You show me a substantive difference between an M1903 and a Remington 700 or a Winchester Model 70 and this will be a valid argument.

Until then (which will be never) it is poppycock.











						M1903 Springfield - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org
				












						Remington Model 700 - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org
				









						Winchester Model 70 - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## BULLDOG (Jul 29, 2022)

westwall said:


> Not according to nadler.


Don't be silly. He did't say all guns in common use did he? The right wing conspiracy theory is that someone will be at your door soon to confiscate all your guns. Just more hysterical exaggeration, dumb ass.


----------



## BULLDOG (Jul 29, 2022)

Missourian said:


> Is that the rule?  Cuz team leftist is making hay over banning gay marriage...
> 
> If just mentioning it isn't the same as an effort to remove a right...have you taken any if them to task?
> 
> ...


Qit whining. This isn't Canada dumb ass.


----------



## Missourian (Jul 29, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> Qit whining. This isn't Canada dumb ass.


^^^Triggered by logical responses with zero name calling.  Just can't handle a reasonable argument.


----------



## BULLDOG (Jul 29, 2022)

Missourian said:


> ^^^Triggered by logical responses with zero name calling.  Just can't handle a reasonable argument.


One day you might make a reasonable argument, and then we will know.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 29, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> “Background checks for gun purchases in Texas rose during the weeks after the mass shooting in Uvalde that left 19 children and two teachers dead, according to the latest count from the federal government. It wasn’t the largest jump in background checks so far this year, but it’s part of a pattern that has followed most mass shootings for over a decade.
> 
> Background checks for guns rose an average of almost 10% following the El Paso, Santa Fe and Sutherland Springs mass shootings. But those events and their aftermath only provided a snapshot of the full, complicated picture of Texans’ relationship with guns and gun violence.
> 
> ...


Dumbass that makes no sense what happened to all those who previously owned firearms?


----------



## woodwork201 (Jul 29, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> From your link
> "President Biden on Monday took aim at 9mm handguns, appearing to suggest that the "high-caliber weapons" ought to be banned."
> 
> Appearing to suggest something might be is not the same as trying to do that thing.  The claim that they are the same as an exaggerated lie. It might help you stir up the gun nuts, but we both know it's just more conspiracy theory bullshit. If you have any legitimate , credible reason to believe your crap, I would be interested, but your current whining is just childish exaggeration.


The first step of a ban has to be to set up that it's evil.  They can't just go to Congress and say, "ban 9mm guns".


----------



## woodwork201 (Jul 29, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> And how many of those definitions you mention actually became law?


That's a very good point.   Because, in a similar fashion last year, someone proposed a law adding 85 billion dollars to the IRS to increase investigators.  The law would have supplemented the wealthy who buy electric vehicles at the expense of those of the poor and middle class who pay taxes.  It was going to subsidize China in manufacturing wind power and tax coal. It was going to increase taxes by over 300 billion dollars.  But, like you say about those definitions and bans, it didn't become law....

Oh, wait.  Joe Manchin just agreed to be the 50th vote in the Senate so Harris can break the tie...


----------



## woodwork201 (Jul 29, 2022)

Missourian said:


> Is that the rule?  Cuz team leftist is making hay over banning gay marriage...
> 
> If just mentioning it isn't the same as an effort to remove a right...have you taken any if them to task?
> 
> ...


Yeah, the Canadians started with all those "reasonable gun control" laws that so many so-called, self-proclaimed, gun privilege supporters on this site support...  You know, mandatory background checks and so forth.  And, as always, background checks = registration = confiscation.  

Yep.  I bet Canadian gun owners are rethinking that whole idea of "reasonable gun control".


----------



## woodwork201 (Jul 29, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> And you need that collapsible stock to hunt prairie chickens.  And what other mods is done?


A woman needs a shorter stock than does a man.  A collapsible stock is the perfect solution.  And what about other mods?  You're suggesting banning adjustable stocks because that might lead to someone putting on a forward vertical grip?



Vrenn said:


> It isn't banning a thing.  You want that weapon, file the proper paperwork and don't be a criminal or Excon.


Nowhere in the proposed ban is there any option for NFA paperwork to purchase or transfer anything that the law defines as an assault weapon.  You're lying.



Vrenn said:


> It has accessories that would make many ARs jealous.  Including a threaded barrel designed to use a silencer.  And subsonic ammo like the 9mm and 45ACP which can benefit from that silencer.   If they offered it without the threaded barrel then it wouldn't make the list.    And again, it's not being banned, it's being regulated.


Interesting.  So everyone should only shoot supersonic ammunition?  I thought you didn't like the 5.56mm because of it's high velocity.  Now you're going to say that subsonic ammunition is dangerous because a silencer reduces the sound more than on a 5.56?

Next you'll be suggesting, as White6 did, that all .22 caliber and other lightweight ammunition should be regulated because they're lightweight so we should only carry ammunition heavier than 5.56 -  you know, such as .308 or .50 BMG.


Vrenn said:


> There are many items that can qualify as an Assault Rifle.  The Caliber doesn't mean a thing.  It's the fact it can be used as a Military Rifle first and everything else after that.


What rifle can't be used as a military rifle?  What handgun can't be used as a military handgun? You haven't read Heller or Miller, have you?  Or the 2nd Amendment, either.  The Constitution likes guns that can be used as a military rifle and, in the opinion of some very smart people, even prefers those.



Vrenn said:


> All this type of law does is make you, the gunnutter, have to register certain weapons and have proper permits.  But if you really want to be banned, fine.  You are banned.  See how easy that was?


No, that's not what HB 1808 does.  And don't talk about permits for owning a gun until you have permits to talk, permits to vote, permits to get a trial or an attorney.   But I'll fight you on all of those permits, as well.


----------



## BULLDOG (Jul 29, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> The first step of a ban has to be to set up that it's evil.  They can't just go to Congress and say, "ban 9mm guns".


If it can be proven to be evil, then it should be banned.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jul 30, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> If it can be proven to be evil, then it should be banned.


I totally agree and there's no stronger defender of the 2nd Amendment than me.  Just as soon as you can prove that a gun is evil, independent of the hands which hold it, Constitution be damned, I'll support its ban because that would be some scary shit.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 30, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> And you need that collapsible stock to hunt prairie chickens.  And what other mods is done?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Moron...the collapsable stock makes it easier to shoot for all body types and easier to store and take to the range....

And if you want to write that book, no problem, just submit a copy to the government censors and get the proper permit.....you want to write a political column...no problem, just submit it first to the government, file the proper paperwork and I'm sure you will be allowed to publish it........see, that's how stupid your idea is..........

The AR-15 has never been a military rifle, and, you idiot....military rifles are specifically protected by the Supreme Court ruling in Miller....

Registering guns has always been the first step to confiscation.....and in Europe, they registered their guns in the 1920s, and by the mid 1930s they began the process of murdering 15 million innocent men, women and children...

You see, you anti-gun fascist....we know human history, we know human nature........it is idiots like you who made the exact same arguments, the exact same promises that fooled Europeans into giving up their guns in the 1920s.......and then their governments who made your arguments and made your promises went on to murder 15 million people.....


We know who you are, we know where what you want leads......and we aren't going to be part of that....


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 30, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> If it can be proven to be evil, then it should be banned.




You want to ban the democrat party?  The party of racism, slavery, the klan, misogyny?  I'm all for that.....


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 30, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> Don't be silly. He did't say all guns in common use did he? The right wing conspiracy theory is that someone will be at your door soon to confiscate all your guns. Just more hysterical exaggeration, dumb ass.




They don't have to be at your door.........they just have to make them illegal, then every interaction with the police becomes a felony arrest if you didn't turn in your Constitutionally protected gun.....

You make a call about a neighbors loud party?   Oh, by the way Mr. Smith, our records show that you never turned in your 9mm semi-automatic assault pistol......we are placing you under arrest....you are now facing felony charges for illegal possession...you will be sent to prison, unlike actual criminals who  get no cash bail, you will lose your job, your house and any chance of decent, future employment....

That is how it will be done....


----------



## Man of Ethics (Jul 30, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> And it’s not just the unwarranted fear that mass shootings will result in ‘bans’ – we see the same ignorance and stupidity from conservatives when a Democratic administration comes into office: shortages and the unavailability of ammunition and firearms based on the moronic lie that guns are going to be ‘banned.’


Sadly, even Conservatives, most of whom believe the Tanakh (Old Testament) are willing to supply murder and suicide perpetrators with weapons.


----------



## Man of Ethics (Jul 30, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> If it can be proven to be evil, then it should be banned.


Agree 100%.

Fortunately, most dangerous narcotics are in fact banned.


----------



## westwall (Jul 30, 2022)

Man of Ethics said:


> Agree 100%.
> 
> Fortunately, most dangerous narcotics are in fact banned.





Yeah.....look how effective those laws are.....

DURRRRRR


----------



## Man of Ethics (Jul 30, 2022)

westwall said:


> Yeah.....look how effective those laws are.....
> 
> DURRRRRR


Perhaps, if fentanyl was legal, *overdose deaths* would have numbered in hundreds of thousands.


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## westwall (Jul 30, 2022)

Man of Ethics said:


> Perhaps, if fentanyl was legal, *overdose deaths* would have numbered in hundreds of thousands.





They number over 3 million over the last 6 years.

DURRRRRR


----------



## Man of Ethics (Jul 30, 2022)

westwall said:


> They number over 3 million over the last 6 years.
> 
> DURRRRRR


There were about 100,000 overdose deaths in 2021.  Less before.  Here.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jul 31, 2022)

Man of Ethics said:


> Sadly, even Conservatives, most of whom believe the Tanakh (Old Testament) are willing to supply murder and suicide perpetrators with weapons.


Who provided Cain with a weapon?   Or have murderers, from the very first murder, been able to find a weapon when they wanted one?

To suggest that me defending my right to have the tools of self-defense implicates me in the murders or suicide of others is just sanctimonious.


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## Man of Ethics (Jul 31, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Who provided Cain with a weapon?   Or have murderers, from the very first murder, been able to find a weapon when they wanted one?


Of course, it is possible to commit murder and suicide without guns, but it is more difficult.  Most murder and suicide attempts without guns fail.


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## woodwork201 (Jul 31, 2022)

Man of Ethics said:


> Perhaps, if fentanyl was legal, *overdose deaths* would have numbered in hundreds of thousands.


Actually, if it were legal, the deaths would be far, far, less because it would be manufactured to standards and not sold on the black market, put into other narcotics as a poison.  Most fentanyl deaths aren't overdoses at all, they're poisonings where people didn't know they were taking fentanyl.

More people die because of sanctimonious authoritarians try to force people to live by the beliefs of the sanctimonious rather than choosing for themselves.

And, no, abortionists, this is not an argument for you to choose to kill babies.   Your right to choose for yourself doesn't include choosing death for someone else.


----------



## Man of Ethics (Jul 31, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Actually, if it were legal, the deaths would be far, far, less because it would be manufactured to standards and not sold on the black market, put into other narcotics as a poison.  Most fentanyl deaths aren't overdoses at all, they're poisonings where people didn't know they were taking fentanyl.
> 
> More people die because of sanctimonious authoritarians try to force people to live by the beliefs of the sanctimonious rather than choosing for themselves.
> 
> And, no, abortionists, this is not an argument for you to choose to kill babies.   Your right to choose for yourself doesn't include choosing death for someone else.


I oppose late term abortion.  I oppose guns.  I oppose drug legalization.  I oppose smoking and alcohol.


I believe Human Life is a Sacred Creation of G-d!


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## westwall (Jul 31, 2022)

Man of Ethics said:


> Of course, it is possible to commit murder and suicide without guns, but it is more difficult.  Most murder and suicide attempts without guns fail.




Tell that to the country's with higher suicide rates, but no guns.

DURRRRRR


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## woodwork201 (Jul 31, 2022)

Man of Ethics said:


> Of course, it is possible to commit murder and suicide without guns, but it is more difficult.  Most murder and suicide attempts without guns fail.


Really?  How is it, then, that Japan has a higher suicide rate than the US with virtually no guns in civilian hands, Mr. Sanctimonious?


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## woodwork201 (Jul 31, 2022)

Man of Ethics said:


> I oppose late term abortion.  I oppose guns.  I oppose drug legalization.  I oppose smoking and alcohol.
> 
> 
> I believe Human Life is a Sacred Creation of G-d!


You oppose late term abortion?  How about first trimester abortion?  Are you OK with that?


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## woodwork201 (Jul 31, 2022)

Man of Ethics said:


> I oppose late term abortion.  I oppose guns.  I oppose drug legalization.  I oppose smoking and alcohol.
> 
> 
> I believe Human Life is a Sacred Creation of G-d!


You oppose free will and support the idea that men can be forced to keep the commandments, being without sin by force rather than by free will and self determination.  Got it. 

Of course that has never been God's plan but the self-righteous like you have never let God's plan, His will, or His law, get in your way any more than you or the left let the Constitution get in your way with Man's law.


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## Man of Ethics (Jul 31, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Really?  How is it, then, that Japan has a higher suicide rate than the US with virtually no guns in civilian hands, Mr. Sanctimonious?


Sadly, most Japanese people do not view suicide as a sin.


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## Man of Ethics (Jul 31, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> You oppose free will and support the idea that men can be forced to keep the commandments, being without sin by force rather than by free will and self determination.  Got it.


Some sins like suicide and murder must be opposed rather then enabled.


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## westwall (Jul 31, 2022)

Man of Ethics said:


> Sadly, most Japanese people do not view suicide as a sin.




So....why the name change?


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## woodwork201 (Jul 31, 2022)

Man of Ethics said:


> Sadly, most Japanese people do not view suicide as a sin.


The question is not about their view of sin; it was about their ability to kill themselves without guns.  When people choose to die, they're going to die and you can't prevent it - nor is it your right to prevent it.  If they have chosen death in their hearts have they not already committed suicide in their heart?


----------



## woodwork201 (Jul 31, 2022)

And answer the abortion question, Man of Ethics.  Are you OK with first trimester abortions?  Abortion for rape, incest?


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## Man of Ethics (Jul 31, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> And answer the abortion question, Man of Ethics.  Are you OK with first trimester abortions?  Abortion for rape, incest?


I do not think this sin can be legislated.  These abortions should be legal.


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## Man of Ethics (Jul 31, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> The question is not about their view of sin; it was about their ability to kill themselves without guns.  When people choose to die, they're going to die and you can't prevent it - nor is it your right to prevent it.  If they have chosen death in their hearts have they not already committed suicide in their heart?


Availability of guns does increase the chance for carrying out suicide.


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## Smokin' OP (Jul 31, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> And it’s not just the unwarranted fear that mass shootings will result in ‘bans’ – we see the same ignorance and stupidity from conservatives when a Democratic administration comes into office: shortages and the unavailability of ammunition and firearms based on the moronic lie that guns are going to be ‘banned.’


Why would anyone go out and purchase something they are convinced, will be banned?

A "special' kind of stupid?


----------



## woodwork201 (Jul 31, 2022)

Man of Ethics said:


> I do not think this sin can be legislated.  These abortions should be legal.


So you're just another leftist, abortion loving, baby murderer who supports going to a woman's womb and ripping the limbs off of her living, feeling, infant, and sucking the remains out with a vacuum.

Don't fucking tell me about how you value human life, you abortion-loving scum.  You're just another anti-gun communist pretending to take the high ground.  You're a fraud and everything you post about human life and helping others is fraudulent code words for loving abortion and communism.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 31, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> Why would anyone go out and purchase something they are convinced, will be banned?
> 
> A "special' kind of stupid?


Good luck against the red wave.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Jul 31, 2022)

White 6 said:


> They might want to buy them to get in before the ban, possibly being grandfathered.  This does come up, every time somebody talks about a ban.


Which is ignorant idiocy – there isn’t going to be a ‘ban.’

And because of this ignorant idiocy, ammunition prices skyrocket – many calibers becoming unavailable.

The same happens to guns – it becomes impossible to find the gun you want and what is available is ridiculously priced.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jul 31, 2022)

Missourian said:


> It's not an exaggerated lie...this is exactly how it starts.
> 
> When the President of the United States appears to suggest that 9mm pistols are "high-caliber weapons" that ought to be banned...I sit up and take notice.
> 
> So does everyone else.


Wrong.

It’s a moronic lie – believed by those only ignorant, stupid, or dishonest.

Handguns can’t be ‘banned’ per _Heller_.


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## Blues Man (Jul 31, 2022)

BULLDOG said:


> Banning the one specific style gun that is universally accepted as the best, most effective weapon for a school shooter, or a mass shooter is not the same as banning every other type gun, dumb ass.


It's the first step towards that very thing.

Tell me what's the point of banning one style of rifle when all the next wannabe school shooter has to do is buy another rifle that fires the exact same round at the exact same rate of fire ?

When the next wannabe school shooter uses that other rifle that was not banned then you will be calling for a new ban on that rifle and the circle jerk logic of gun ban advocates continues


----------



## Missourian (Jul 31, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Wrong.
> 
> It’s a moronic lie – believed by those only .
> 
> Handguns can’t be ‘banned’ per _Heller_.



Democrats will try it.

It's the next logical step.

Do you think AR-15s are "fueling the epidemic of gun violence"?

Since hands and feet, clubs and blunt instruments, knives, and swimming pools kill more people in the US than all rifles...only an "ignorant, stupid, or dishonest" person would believe anything else.


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 31, 2022)

Missourian said:


> Democrats will try it.
> 
> It's the next logical step.
> 
> ...


DEMOCRATS FUCKING LIE

They lie about being communist. They lie about wanting to take all your fucking guns. They are fucking liars.

They are liars.

They are not trustworthy.

They want to ban all guns.

The only solution is to fuck them in the face and repeal all gun laws so that they have nothing. It's what they deserve.


----------



## Man of Ethics (Jul 31, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> So you're just another leftist, abortion loving, baby murderer who supports going to a woman's womb and ripping the limbs off of her living, feeling, infant, and sucking the remains out with a vacuum.


*I support prohibition of late-term abortions.*

Early term abortion is as much a sin as looking at Playboy magazine.  Religion can not be legislated.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jul 31, 2022)

Man of Ethics said:


> Religion can not be legislated.


But conservatives will try anyway – the First Amendment be damned.


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## Peace (Jul 31, 2022)

As I stated before the AR-15 can be regulated just like the Uzi and Tommy Gun have been and this argument one is fully automatic vs semi-automatic does not fly seeing we were once able to buy the Uzi and Tommy Gun a lot easier but laws were passed and sign into law to make it harder.

Your right to own a firearm isn’t being infringed on but the government can regulate what type you can own and have done so and will do so…


----------



## westwall (Jul 31, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Wrong.
> 
> It’s a moronic lie – believed by those only ignorant, stupid, or dishonest.
> 
> Handguns can’t be ‘banned’ per _Heller_.




Your hero, fat nadler, says otherwise. 

DURRRRRR


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 31, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Wrong.
> 
> It’s a moronic lie – believed by those only ignorant, stupid, or dishonest.
> 
> Handguns can’t be ‘banned’ per _Heller_.


Dumbass neither can AR 15s


----------



## White 6 (Jul 31, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Which is ignorant idiocy – there isn’t going to be a ‘ban.’
> 
> And because of this ignorant idiocy, ammunition prices skyrocket – many calibers becoming unavailable.
> 
> The same happens to guns – it becomes impossible to find the gun you want and what is available is ridiculously priced.


I don't think so either, but I bought all the parts to assemble mine, from multiple manufacturers, and multiple sales organizations on the internet, selecting the specific components to suit my needs and wants before people started talking about ghost guns.
It is a very utilitarian firearm.  I enjoy shooting it on the range, with my son (formerly 82nd Airborne, veteran of Afghanistan duty tour) and my retired Chief Warrant Officer and at least once with my still active  Lieutenant Colonel sister-in-law, (whom I recruited years ago, her parents never forgiving me), and also another Middle East veteran.  AR15s are just one of the many weapons we maintain skills and shoot for recreation.  When we are on a range, it is a safe range, as we are all highly trained and disciplined.
None of our various weapons were ridiculously priced.  It pays to shop, not just buy.
We are not having difficulty maintain ammunition stocking level as none of us pinched for expendable income.  Plus my son, has modern reload equipment, and we have time to spare.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 31, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> But conservatives will try anyway – the First Amendment be damned.


And that justifies your tyranny, you gun-grabbing twat?  2nd be damned?

You're a lying asshole.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jul 31, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Which is ignorant idiocy – there isn’t going to be a ‘ban.’
> 
> And because of this ignorant idiocy, ammunition prices skyrocket – many calibers becoming unavailable.
> 
> The same happens to guns – it becomes impossible to find the gun you want and what is available is ridiculously priced.


I took a scan at a popular online gun retailer today.  They had literally over a hundred models of in-stock revolvers.  More than a hundred model, across many big-name handgun manufacturers, in 9mm and .40 S&W.  It didn't say how many of each model they had but there was no indication of any shortage.

Oh, you were complaining about unavailability of SAAs because of the right-wing extremist rush to get single-action revolvers to fight the government.  They had over a dozen different models, again - who knows how many of any or each model, of Single-action Army pistols.

There's also no shortage of ammunition.  I can get all of the ammunition I want in any caliber I want.  Yes, it's more expensive - everything is more expensive, especially the core metals in ammunition manufacturing.  Blame Biden for the hugely increased prices of the metals required to make ammunition; don't blame gun owners.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jul 31, 2022)

Man of Ethics said:


> *I support prohibition of late-term abortions.*
> 
> Early term abortion is as much a sin as looking at Playboy magazine.  Religion can not be legislated.


Wow.  Please quit pretending to be a man of God.  You know nothing of God or of morals or of ethics.

Are you suggesting that murder cannot be outlawed because it is a tenet of virtually all religions that murder is a sin?  Since we can't legislate religion, we must allow murder.

You know, because no one ever, even the purest atheist, ever thought that murder might be wrong because it takes a life.  Murder is a religious law and just can't be legislated.


----------



## Missourian (Jul 31, 2022)

Peace said:


> As I stated before the AR-15 can be regulated just like the Uzi and Tommy Gun have been and this argument one is fully automatic vs semi-automatic does not fly seeing we were once able to buy the Uzi and Tommy Gun a lot easier but laws were passed and sign into law to make it harder.
> 
> Your right to own a firearm isn’t being infringed on but the government can regulate what type you can own and have done so and will do so…


By that logic they could also ban every semi-automatic handgun and "your right to own a firearm isn't infringed".

And that argument is the one the gun grabbers will make when they come for your 9mm..."Here's your single shot matchlock...we've 'regulated' everything else out of existence...but your right to bear arms hasn't been infringed.  Enjoy!" 








Better to fight this battle here over AR15s IMO.


----------



## westwall (Jul 31, 2022)

Missourian said:


> By that logic they could also ban every semi-automatic handgun and "your right to own a firearm isn't infringed".
> 
> And that argument is the one the gun grabbers will make when they come for your 9mm..."Here's your single shot matchlock...we've 'regulated' everything else out of existence...but your right to bear arms hasn't been infringed.  Enjoy!"
> 
> ...





And WIN IT.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Aug 1, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Good luck against the red wave.


Trumptards better stock up.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Aug 1, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> Trumptards better stock up.
> 
> View attachment 676879


Sorry I will never use one to save the life of a leftist that has several bullet hole in their bodies.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Aug 1, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Sorry I will never use one to save the life of a leftist that has several bullet hole in their bodies.



Likely not, RWNJ's probably put the bullet holes in the body.....................after unloading 30 rounds from their AR or AK, likely a ricochet anyway.


----------



## westwall (Aug 1, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> Likely not, RWNJ's probably put the bullet holes in the body.....................after unloading 30 rounds from their AR or AK, likely a ricochet anyway.





Poor dumbass you.  You leftwingers shoot yourselves.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Aug 1, 2022)

westwall said:


> Poor dumbass you.  You leftwingers shoot yourselves.


Sure. NUT JOB.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Aug 1, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> Likely not, RWNJ's probably put the bullet holes in the body.....................after unloading 30 rounds from their AR or AK, likely a ricochet anyway.


And don't count on it.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Aug 1, 2022)

Peace said:


> As I stated before the AR-15 can be regulated just like the Uzi and Tommy Gun have been and this argument one is fully automatic vs semi-automatic does not fly seeing we were once able to buy the Uzi and Tommy Gun a lot easier but laws were passed and sign into law to make it harder.
> 
> Your right to own a firearm isn’t being infringed on but the government can regulate what type you can own and have done so and will do so…


 There is no gray area on infringement.

Infringement is infringement is infringement.  No two ways about it.

"Shall not" means must not

"Infringed" means ANYTHING limiting the right.....ANYTHING....

We have tolerated certain infringement but the current 20+ year over-the-top push has taken all tolerance off the table.

I want machine guns and I want them know.  Anything less is infringement and is UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!!


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Aug 1, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> There is no gray area on infringement.
> 
> Infringement is infringement is infringement.  No two ways about it.
> 
> ...


I'm with you repeal the NFA. It's time for the antiguners to compromise.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Aug 2, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> And don't count on it.


Never count on anything but my wife and dog.

Kids ?????????????????????


----------

