# Popular Mechanics



## elvis (Mar 20, 2009)

I would like you troofers to explain to us why Popular Mechanics is wrong.


----------



## Toro (Mar 20, 2009)

It's not.  That's why they hate it so much and made ad hominem attacks against the staff of the magazine.


----------



## manu1959 (Mar 20, 2009)

they were part of the cover up.....

what i want to know is where are the four planes and all the people that didn't crash into anything....


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 20, 2009)

Contrary to what Toro and yourself want to believe it IS wrong.It has been debunked countless numbers of times by structural engineers,scientists,government intel officers,ect ect.AGAIN if you ever bothered to do any research and stop seeing only what you want to see,you would see the evidence is overwhelming that it was an inside job.The magazine just like the 9/11 commission.omits key facts,key testimonys by witnesses,ignores suppressed film footage,and only prints disinformation full of lies and propaganda.Its the warren commission report on the kennedy assassination.Another fairy tale.

The REAL truth to what actually happened on 9/11 is found here at THIS site.The 9/11 Truth Movement - 911truth.org but seeing as how you have allowed the government to brainwash you with their lies and propaganda on the kennedy assassination,I know you wont read through what this 911truth site has to say.it took me several dozens of hours to read through to come to the conclusion.thats how I know if someone is really interested in the truth or not is if they take the time to talk about what they talk about here.But nobody ever does.Not the ones who accept what popular mechanics  say anyways.


----------



## Toro (Mar 20, 2009)

But 9/11 Inside Job, if you just watched the 3,847 youtube videos I've posted here, you'd know I'm right!


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 20, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> they were part of the cover up.....
> 
> what i want to know is where are the four planes and all the people that didn't crash into anything....



exactly.Popular Mechanics has been proven to be a fairy tale.Their version of what happened is a complete joke and an insult to the 3000 people who lost their lives in those towers.Popular mechanics does a disservice to them.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 20, 2009)

Toro said:


> But 9/11 Inside Job, if you just watched the 3,847 youtube videos I've posted here, you'd know I'm right!



uh if you ever watched my 47 canada wants the truth videos-which you have proven in spades many times you havent,you would know your wrong.they debunk any of your 3,847 disinformation videos.


----------



## manu1959 (Mar 20, 2009)

what i want to know is where are the four planes and all the people that didn't crash into anything...


----------



## Mad Scientist (Mar 20, 2009)

I live in a house!


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 20, 2009)

Toro said:


> But 9/11 Inside Job, if you just watched the 3,847 youtube videos I've posted here, you'd know I'm right!



Btw Toro,instead of just talking the talk,why dont you actually walk the walk? Lets see these alleged 3,847 youtube.videos you CLAIM you have posted here cause ever since I been here,I cant EVER recall you posting any videos to watch.Eots has posted plenty of them,but you sure havent that I can recall.Just a bunch of posts consisting of blah blah blah and anytime  whenever I posted the link to my canada wants the truth site where you can watch all those 47 videos that debunk the official version,you always just ran off with your tail between your legs and never bothered to address what those videos talked about.Thats how I know you never watched them."I" have posted my videos for you to watch too many times to remember, only to watch them go ignored by you and the other 9/11 apologists here.Lets see you post YOURS.cause ever since I have been here,I have never seen you post a video.so lets see ALL these 3,000 plus videos right here on this thread that your talking about right now.


----------



## Toro (Mar 20, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > But 9/11 Inside Job, if you just watched the 3,847 youtube videos I've posted here, you'd know I'm right!
> ...



My 3,847 videos are WAAAAAAAAAAY better than your mere 47 girlie-man videos.


----------



## Toro (Mar 20, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> what i want to know is where are the four planes and all the people that didn't crash into anything...



Bush and Cheney all had them killed.

That's right, several hundred people were murdered.

Think about that for a minute.  All the people who were supposed to show up at the flight, not a single murder aroused suspicion.  Whether they were people who were on their way to the airport from their home and killed on the way, or people returning home on a business trip and killed in the largest and busiest cities in the country, or being driven by a friend who probably also would have been snuffed, without arousing a single complaints from spouses or significant others, or friends, or business colleagues, or taxi drivers, or the many people who would have surrounded them at any given time, they were all murdered.  Every single one of them.  And yet, there is no evidence of their remains (except for those limbs planted at the scenes of the crimes of course).  There are no suspects of the several hundreds of hit men that would have to have been involved.  Nothing.

But the planes didn't take off.  Got that?


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 20, 2009)

Toro said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > Toro said:
> ...



the ones that you never watched? again back it up.Lets see these alleged videos you brag about as the truth on this thread cause right now your just talking shit as always.


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 21, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...


i doubt anyone would actually waste their time watching anything YOU recommend to watch
you lack any semblance of credibility to warrant anyone devoting enough of their time to watch a 20 sec. video


----------



## eots (Mar 21, 2009)

HEARST - YELLOW JOURNALISM



http://www.5min.com/Video/What-is-Yellow-Journalism-99794927


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 21, 2009)

eots said:


> century of self part 1 - Google Video


as if anyone is gonna watch any video you post
LOL


----------



## eots (Mar 21, 2009)

YouTube - Popular Mechanics Debunked


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 21, 2009)

eots said:


> YouTube - Popular Mechanics Debunked


you cant debunk the truth


----------



## eots (Mar 21, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > century of self part 1 - Google Video
> ...



well a person in denial such as your self may not ..but the reality is many of these clips and films have been viewed by millions


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 21, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


and dismissed as nonsense by most

see, thats why i refuse to click on any link you provide
you would then claim me as someone supporting your bullshit


----------



## eots (Mar 21, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



no you refuse because your argument falls apart if you don't hide your head in the sand


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 21, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


your head is in the ass of alex jones
so if mine is in the sand, it still doesnt smell as bad as yours


----------



## eots (Mar 21, 2009)

*Capt. Daniel Davis, U.S. Army &#8211; Former U.S. Army Air Defense Officer and NORAD Tac Director.  Decorated with the Bronze Star and the Soldiers Medal for bravery under fire and the Purple Heart for injuries sustained in Viet Nam.  Also served in the Army Air Defense Command as Nike Missile Battery Control Officer for the Chicago-Milwaukee Defense Area.  Founder and former CEO of Turbine Technology Services Corp., a turbine (jet engine) services and maintenance company (15 years).  Former Senior Manager at General Electric Turbine (jet) Engine Division (15 years).  Private pilot.*

Statement to this website 3/23/07: "As a former General Electric Turbine engineering specialist and manager and then CEO of a turbine engineering company, I can guarantee that none of the high tech, high temperature alloy engines on any of the four planes that crashed on 9/11 would be completely destroyed, burned, shattered or melted in any crash or fire.  Wrecked, yes, but not destroyed.  Where are all of those engines, particularly at the Pentagon?  If jet powered aircraft crashed on 9/11, those engines, plus wings and tail assembly, would be there. 

Additionally, in my experience as an officer in NORAD as a Tactical Director for the Chicago-Milwaukee Air Defense and as a current private pilot, there is no way that an aircraft on instrument flight plans (all commercial flights are IFR) would not be intercepted when they deviate from their flight plan, turn off their transponders, or stop communication with Air Traffic Control.  No way!  With very bad luck, perhaps one could slip by, but no there's no way all four of them could! 

Finally, going over the hill and highway and crashing into the Pentagon right at the wall/ground interface is nearly impossible for even a small slow single engine airplane and no way for a 757. Maybe the best pilot in the world could accomplish that but not these unskilled "terrorists". 

*Attempts to obscure facts by calling them a "Conspiracy Theory" does not change the truth.  It seems, "Something is rotten in the State." *


Editor's note: For more information on the impact at the Pentagon, see General Stubblebine, Colonel Nelson, Commander Muga, Lt. Col. Kwiatkowski, Lt. Col. Latas, Major Rokke, Capt. Wittenberg, Barbara Honegger, April Gallop, Colonel Bunel, and Steve DeChiaro. 


Statement in support of Architects and Engineers petition: 
*
"The government conspiracy theory does not hold up to scrutiny. As a professional with over 30 years experience working with gas turbines (jet engines) and fuels - kerosene (jet fuel) does not burn in any open flame hot enough to effect steel - well under 1000 deg F. Also bogus are the explanations regarding why no planes were intercepted. SOP [Standard Operating Procedure] is they are always, always intercepted if they stray off course and/or turn off the transponder like these flights all did. No command decision needed. Has our government ever been untruthful to us?"  *AE911Truth 


Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11, signed by more than 600 Architects and Engineers: 

"On Behalf of the People of the United States of America, the undersigned Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and affiliates  hereby petition for, and demand, a truly independent investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01 - specifically the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7.  We believe that there is sufficient doubt about the official story and therefore that the 9/11 investigation must be re-opened and must include a full inquiry into the possible use of explosives that may have been the actual cause behind the destruction of the World Trade Center Towers and WTC Building 7." Sign the Petition 

Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report


----------



## editec (Mar 21, 2009)

Perhaps because few people I know much like most mechanics?


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 21, 2009)

This is the main reason that popular mechanics just like the 9/11 commission report has been proven to be a fairy tale.


Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report

Senator Bob Kerrey &#8211; Appointed to the 9/11 Commission upon the resignation of Senator Max Cleland in December 2003 and served on the Commission during the final seven months of its 19-month existence. U.S. Senator from Nebraska 1989 - 2000. Governor of Nebraska 1983 - 1987. Unsuccessful candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination in 1992. Former member, Navy SEAL special forces 1966 - 1969, serving in Vietnam. Combat injuries resulted in the amputation of the lower part of one leg. Awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor for "conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life" for his service in Vietnam. Currently, President, New School University 2001 - present. 
Statement of Richard Greene, Air America Radio host 3/2/08: [/b]

"All I care about is saving this democracy and saving this country and this world for my daughter and for our next generations. And on Air America, I'm doing every single thing I can. OK? 

Now I went to Senator Kerrey and I said. "Senator --" because he's associated with Air America -- I said, "Senator, are you still believing that there wasn't enough time and enough money to do an investigation?" 

And he said, "Absolutely." 

I said, "Are you calling for a new investigation?" 

And he said, "No, Richard, I am going further than that." He said, "I am calling for a permanent 9/11 Commission." 

And I said, "Senator, is this public? Can I announce that on the air? And are you willing to come on the air and say that?" 

And he said, "Yes." YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. 


Newsweek article by Philip Shenon 3/23/09: 

Not denial. Just the truth. We know who is responsible.

Lt. Col. Guy S. Razer, MS Aeronautical Science, U.S. Air Force (ret) &#8211; Retired U.S. Air Force command fighter pilot. Former instructor; U.S. Air Force Fighter Weapons School and NATO&#8217;s Tactical Leadership Program. As an Air Force weapons effects expert was responsible for wartime tasking of most appropriate aircraft/munition for target destruction to include steel and concrete superstructures. Former aeronautical structures flight test engineer with McDonnell Douglas, working on advanced DC-9 autopilot systems and DC-10 flight envelope expansion stress and flutter analysis. Tactical aircraft flown: General Dynamics F-111 Aardvark fighter/bomber, McDonnell Douglas F-15E Strike Eagle, General Dynamics / Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon, McDonnell Douglas F-18 Hornet, Boeing B-1 Bomber, MiG-29 (Russian fighter), and Su-22 (Russian fighter/bomber). 3,000+ fighter hours. Combat time over Iraq. 20-year Air Force career. 
Statement to this website 3/25/07: "After 4+ years of research since retirement in 2002, I am 100% convinced that the attacks of September 11, 2001 were planned, organized, and committed by treasonous perpetrators that have infiltrated the highest levels of our government. It is now time to take our country back. 

The "collapse" of WTC Building 7 shows beyond any doubt that the demolitions were pre-planned. There is simply no way to demolish a 47-story building (on fire) over a coffee break. It is also impossible to report the building&#8217;s collapse before it happened, as BBC News did, unless it was pre-planned. Further damning evidence is Larry Silverstein's video taped confession in which he states "they made that decision to pull [WTC 7] and we watched the building collapse." [Editor's note: WTC Building 7 was 610 feet tall, 47 stories. It would have been the tallest building in 33 states. Although it was not hit by an airplane, it completely collapsed into a pile of rubble in less than 7 seconds at 5:20 p.m. on 9/11, seven hours after the collapses of the Twin Towers. However, no mention of its collapse appears in the 9/11 Commission's "full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks." Watch the collapse video here. And six years after 9/11, the Federal government has yet to publish its promised final report that explains the cause of its collapse.] 

We cannot let the pursuit of justice fail. Those of us in the military took an oath to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic". Just because we have retired does not make that oath invalid, so it is not just our responsibility, it is our duty to expose the real perpetrators of 9/11 and bring them to justice, no matter how hard it is, how long it takes, or how much we have to suffer to do it. 

We owe it to those who have gone before us who executed that same oath, and who are doing the same thing in Iraq and Afghanistan right now. Those of us who joined the military and faithfully executed orders that were given us had to trust our leaders. The violation and abuse of that trust is not only heinous, but ultimately the most accurate definition of treason!"



Capt. Edgar Mitchell, DSc 

Capt. Edgar Mitchell, U.S. Navy (ret), BS Industrial Management, BS Aeronautical Engineering, Doctor of Science, Aeronautics and Astronautics from MIT &#8211; Pilot and Astronaut. Sixth man to walk on the moon (Apollo 14 mission). Patrol bomber and attack plane pilot, U.S. Navy. Test Pilot, Air Test and Evaluation Squadron 5 (VX-5). Chief of Project Management Division, Navy Field Office for the Manned Orbiting Laboratory Project. Graduated first in his class from the Aerospace Research Pilot School, and served as an instructor there. Recipient of many awards and honors including the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the USN Distinguished Medal and three NASA Group Achievement Awards. Inducted to the Space Hall of Fame in 1979 and the Astronaut Hall of Fame in 1998. Recipient of honorary doctorates in engineering from New Mexico State University, the University of Akron, Carnegie Mellon University, and a ScD from Embry-Riddle University. Founder of the Institute of Noetic Sciences. 
Endorser of and proposed Commissioner of a New Investigation into 9/11 as described in the New York City Ballot Initiative 11/08: "Petition to Create a NYC Independent Commission with Subpoena Power to Conduct a Comprehensive and Fact-Driven Investigation of All Relevant Aspects of the Tragic Events of September 11, 2001 and Issue a Report. 

WHEREAS, many New York City voters believe that there remain many unanswered questions critical to establishing the truth about all relevant events leading up to, during and subsequent to the tragic attacks occurring on September 11, 2001 (&#8220;9/11&#8221, and 

WHEREAS, no prior investigation by any New York City agency or any other governmental entity has resulted in the citizens being provided with those critical answers or information necessary to establish the truth about those tragic events, ... 

An independent, temporary New York City commission (the &#8220;Commission&#8221 is hereby created to conduct a comprehensive, factdriven investigation into the events that took place on 9/11, as well as to thoroughly examine related events before and after the attacks, including any activities attempting to hide, cover up, impede or obstruct any investigation into these 9/11 events, following wherever the facts may lead. The Commission shall publish one or more reports of their findings." 


Website: Ed Mitchell 







Lt. Col. Robert Bowman, PhD 

Lt. Col. Robert Bowman, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) &#8211; Director of Advanced Space Programs Development under Presidents Ford and Carter. U.S. Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions. (PhD in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering, Cal Tech). Former Head of the Department of Aeronautical Engineering and Assistant Dean at the U.S. Air Force Institute of Technology. 22-year Air Force career. Also taught Mathematics and English at the University of Southern California, the University of Maryland, and Phillips University. 
Member: Political Leaders for 9/11 Truth Association Statement: 

"Scholars and professionals with various kinds of expertise---including architects, engineers, firefighters, intelligence officers, lawyers, medical professionals, military officers, philosophers, religious leaders, physical scientists, and pilots---have spoken out about radical discrepancies between the official account of the 9/11 attacks and what they, as independent researchers, have learned. 

They have established beyond any reasonable doubt that the official account of 9/11 is false and that, therefore, the official &#8220;investigations&#8221; have really been cover-up operations. 

Thus far, however, there has been no response from political leaders in Washington or, for that matter, in other capitals around the world. Our organization, Political Leaders for 9/11 Truth, has been formed to help bring about such a response. 

We believe that the truth about 9/11 needs to be exposed now---not in 50 years as a footnote in the history books---so the policies that have been based on the Bush-Cheney administration&#8217;s interpretation of the 9/11 attacks can be changed. 

We are, therefore, calling for a new, independent investigation of 9/11 that takes account of evidence that has been documented by independent researchers but thus far ignored by governments and the mainstream media." 


Video 9/11/04: "A lot of these pieces of information, taken together, prove that the official story, the official conspiracy theory of 9/11 is a bunch of hogwash. It&#8217;s impossible. &#8230; There&#8217;s a second group of facts having to do with the cover up. &#8230; Taken together these things prove that high levels of our government don&#8217;t want us to know what happened and who&#8217;s responsible.&#8230; 

Who gained from 9/11? Who covered up crucial information about 9/11? And who put out the patently false stories about 9/11 in the first place? When you take those three things together, I think the case is pretty clear that it&#8217;s highly placed individuals in the administration with all roads passing through Dick Cheney. 
think the very kindest thing that we can say about George W. Bush and all the people in the U.S. Government that have been involved in this massive cover-up, the very kindest thing we can say is that they were aware of impending attacks and let them happen. Now some people will say that&#8217;s much too kind, however even that is high treason and conspiracy to commit murder." 
I thhttp://video.go 


Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11: 
"We want truthful answers to question. &#8230; As Americans of conscience, we ask for four things: 
An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer 
Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings. 
Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence. 
The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry." http://www.911truth.org/article 



Member: Pilots for 9/11 Truth Association Statement: "Pilots for 9/11 Truth is an organization of aviation professionals and pilots throughout the globe that have gathered together for one purpose. We are committed to seeking the truth surrounding the events of the 11th of September 2001. Our main focus concentrates on the four flights, maneuvers performed and the reported pilots. We do not offer theory or point blame. However, we are focused on determining the truth of that fateful day since the United States Government doesn't seem to be very forthcoming with answers."


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 21, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



yeah Divecon,thanks  for showing AGAIN like always, you 9/11 Bush dupes, put your tail between your legs and run off like cowards sprouting off  bullshit like this everytime someone like me or Eots or Terral comes on here  asking you to watch these videos  and to debunk them.You Bush dupes never bother to address what these videos talk about or ever  bother watching them -you just confessed that,since you know you cant counter what these videos say.that video shows overwhelming evidence that Popular Mechanics is lying their asses off about 9/11.thanks for proving that your too afraid to look at those videos and that your in so much denial as always here.

Eots I thank YOU for posting that video.I was just about to post that video myself but you beat me to the punch.Thats one of the 47 videos thats from the canada wants the truth site that I just mentioned I have posted countless numbers of times to the 9/11 apologists to debunk.They NEVER address what those videos talk about cause they never watch them.As just evidenced by Divecon,they always put their tail between their legs and run off and sprout off stupid crap and even CONFESS they dont watch them.proof that they,just like the 9/11 commission people and popular mechanics,that they only see what THEY want to see.what really cracks me up is they ignore terral's link in his sig to the pentagan link where in that video,that video shows high ranking intel military people and top ranked pilots around the  world talking about how the official version of the 9/11 commission report about the pentagon story is fake and impossible,yet the 9/11 apologists dont find THESE people as credible people.LOL.pretty pathetic isnt it?


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 21, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


why would i trust you that its not as stupid as every other video you post that are full of lies and deceptions

LOL
you've done it too many times for anyone to give you any benefit of doubt, since there is no doubt you morons are delusional


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 21, 2009)

by Kevin Ryan


Global Research, March 13, 2007 
9/11 blogspot  


 Email this article to a friend
 Print this article 





When Matthew Rothschild, editor of the online magazine The Progressive, wrote an article called &#8220;Enough of the 9/11 Conspiracies, Already&#8221;, we all knew he was not talking about the conspiracy theory that the US government sells us to justify the expanding 9/11 Wars.[1] To the contrary, in writing that article Mr. Rothschild was selling that same theory himself. What he actually meant was that people should not question the US government&#8217;s story of terror because credentialed experts have been found to support it. But the fact is that the experts found to support the official conspiracy theory of 9/11 are predominantly those who profit from doing so. That&#8217;s not to say that all of these people were &#8220;part of the conspiracy&#8221;. But they are, whether consciously or not, a part of the cover-up. And that, of course, is the greater crime.

The Bush Administration employed a number of such credentialed experts to give us multiple explanations for the unprecedented destruction of three tall steel-framed buildings at the World Trade Center (WTC). Unfortunately, all of those explanations have proven to be false, and this fact reminds us that academic credentials don&#8217;t necessarily make a person more capable, or more likely, to tell the truth. 

Exactly how they could find so many experts on the fire-induced collapse of tall buildings is not immediately clear, considering such an event had never happened before. But it did help that the questions were quickly framed as being solely matters of structural engineering, a sub-field of civil engineering, because structural engineers cannot find work without continual government approvals. A Chemistry laboratory manager like myself can work without permits or licenses, but people can&#8217;t just go out and build a bridge or a tall building on their own. The extensive paperwork necessary to complete civil engineering projects is obtained by working closely with, and staying on good terms with, local and national authorities. That fact may not be enough to ensure vocal support for the official story of &#8220;global collapse&#8221;, but it has been enough to keep most structural engineers from publicly opposing the intransigent government stance on the WTC events.

From where, then, has the vocal support come within the engineering community? Matthew Rothschild points to some interesting characters when he says that &#8220;I made a few calls myself&#8221;, including to Gene Corley and to Mete Sozen. Additionally, Rothschild says that he consulted &#8220;some of the top building design and engineering firms&#8221;, like Skidmore Owings & Merrill, and Greenhorne & O&#8217;Mara. To emphasize just how solid the government&#8217;s story is, he adds that he &#8220;also contacted engineering professors at MIT and other leading universities in the country, and none of them puts any stock in the 9/11 conspiracy theories.&#8221; 

What Mr. Rothschild failed to tell us is that Gene Corley and Mete Sozen not only created the reports that he is defending, but have also, for many years, worked for the US Department of Defense (DOD) through the Blast Mitigation for Structures Program (BMSP). Since 1997, this program has provided the DOD with expertise in explosives, and has been funded at $10 million annually.[2] After 9/11, astronomical increases in DOD funding were likely to have benefited all DOD partners and programs, like DOD&#8217;s Nunn-Perry award winner, Greenhorne & O&#8217;Mara, and those involved with the BMSP. Of course, the DOD was probably already awash in black-budget funds prior to 9/11, as indicated by the missing trillions reported by the DOD on 9/10/01.[3] 

Rothschild also failed to let us know that Skidmore Owings & Merrill (SOM), one of his independent engineering firms, is responsible for the architectural design of the new Freedom Tower. SOM gained that contract at the personal insistence of Larry Silverstein, the original owner of WTC 7 and the WTC towers&#8217; leaseholder. Mr. Rothschild may also not be aware that William Baker, a top executive at SOM, was involved in several of the official WTC investigations and reports that have been generated. In any case it is clear that the &#8220;Freedom Tower&#8221; would not be the publicity-rich project it is today if an alternative explanation forced us to rename it the &#8220;There Goes Our Freedom Tower&#8221;.


Getting back to those experts at BMSP, we see that DOD employs a number of consulting firms to help out Corley and Sozen, in what is called the Blast Mitigation Action Group (BMAG), including ARUP, ARA, SAIC, SGH, Thornton-Tomasetti and Weidlinger Associates.[4] It should be noted that most of these firms were major contributors to the various official explanations for collapse of the WTC buildings, as well as being government contractors in fields related to terrorism. Strangely, despite their overwhelming expertise in the use of explosives, none of their explanations for the WTC events had anything to do with explosives. 

That&#8217;s not to say that these characters never deal with explosives, however, as Corley and Sozen were two of the four members of the Oklahoma City (OKC) engineering investigation, along with Paul Mlakar and Charles Thornton. The work they did followed the damage estimates found within the Federal Emergency Management Administration&#8217;s (FEMA) OKC report, written by Greenhorne & O&#8217;Mara. Although none of these credentialed experts even toured the site at OKC, Corley and Sozen were able to produce an engineering report that was a highly questionable extrapolation of minimal evidence, primarily the size of a bomb crater, provided to them by the FBI.[5] Their report was created in support of the &#8220;One Guy, One Truck Bomb&#8221; political story that directly contradicted testimony given by several leading experts, including USAF General Benton Partin. 

After spending 25 years dealing with explosive weaponry, General Partin independently studied the damage done to the Murrah building in the month before the evidence was destroyed, and made several strong statements to members of the US Congress. In July of 1995, General Partin wrote to Senator Trent Lott, stating, &#8220;The attached report contains conclusive proof that the bombing of the Aflred P. Murrah Federal Building&#8230;was not caused solely by the truck bomb. Evidence shows that the massive destruction was primarily the result of four demolition charges placed at critical structural points at the third floor level.&#8221; He added &#8220;No government law enforcement agency should be permitted to demolish, smash and bury evidence of a&#8230;terrorist attack without a thorough examination by an independent, technically competent agency.&#8221;[6]

When speaking about the unprecedented destruction of evidence, General Partin was referring to the demolition of the Murrah Building by Mark Loizeaux&#8217;s company, just five days after Partin made his strong statements directly to the US Congress. But Partin might as well have been talking about the WTC six years later, where much of the steel evidence was destroyed in the month before engineering investigators began inspecting the scene. It was noted by the House Committee on Science, as they reviewed early shortcomings of the WTC investigation, that, &#8220;Some of the critical pieces of steel&#8230;were gone before the first BPAT team member ever reached the site.&#8221;[7] At the time of this destruction of evidence, Gene Corley was in charge of the investigation and his OKC partner Charles Thornton&#8217;s company was in charge of the site at Ground Zero.

In any case, it is clear that Rothschild&#8217;s primary experts have a long history of involvement in US government interests, and in highly questionable engineering reports. But surely the &#8220;engineering professors at MIT and other leading universities in the country&#8221; could not all be so tied to US government interests. There must be some objective members within the group of scientists supporting the Bush Administration&#8217;s theories, and some agreement among scientists around the world.

The truth is that interpretation of the events at the WTC does include some agreement from all parties. We all agree that no tall steel-framed building in history has ever collapsed uniformly at nearly free-fall speed into a pile of rubble for any reason whatsoever, outside of demolition. And we&#8217;re in agreement that the first three occasions of such an event supposedly occurred all on the same day, all in the same place. To round out a quick agreement, we can all safely say that these improbable events were the emotional basis for the passing of legislation that had already been written (e.g. the Patriot Act), and for the invasion of several strategically-important countries, the plans for which were already in the works. 


From there, however, the views of the government&#8217;s credentialed experts diverge from those who are more interested in objectively seeking the truth. The initial facts of agreement should lead any objective person to seek a detailed investigation that leaves no hypothesis un-examined. But for the government&#8217;s credentialed experts, only one hypothesis was worthy of consideration, a fire-based failure of all three buildings that jibed with the overall official version of the events of that day.

In support of that fire-based triple play, the experts gave us a progression of false stories. The media gave us the first false story, with help from PhD engineers, some of whom were contributors to the official reports. Eduardo Kausel, an &#8220;engineering professor at MIT&#8221; and contributor to the WTC report generated by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), suggested to us in Scientific American that this catastrophe was probably due to the jet fuel fires melting the steel in the buildings.[8] He was joined in this early theory by a handful of other PhD engineers and professors around the country, and by the US government&#8217;s top suspect - Osama Bin Laden. The US State Department still promotes the melting steel theory by promoting the alleged confession video of the alleged Bin Laden, which Matthew Rothschild finds convincing as well. In this confession video, the credentialed expert Bin Laden said -- &#8220;Due to my experience in this field, I was thinking that the fire from the gas in the plane would melt the iron structure of the building..."[9] Apparently Bin Laden&#8217;s plan was a complete failure after all, because even the experts now agree that jet fuel-accelerated office fires cannot melt steel (or Iron for that matter).

Another structural engineer who made early claims of melting steel, in the infamous 2002 Nova video &#8220;Why the Towers Fell&#8221;, was Matthys Levy. Mr. Levy was a principal at the BMAG consulting firm Weidlinger Associates that, later, with the help of many other PhD engineers, produced a report on the WTC disaster as part of an insurance claim by Larry Silverstein.[10] This Silverstein-Weidlinger investigation was based on extensive computer modeling and involved many of the same contractors that contributed to the government studies. Their final report told us that floor failure had nothing to do with the WTC disasters, but &#8220;that the failure of columns alone, independent of the floors, explains the collapses.&#8221;[11] At the time, Levy told us &#8220;There is no doubt left about the sequence of failure.&#8221;[12] 

Unfortunately, the credentialed experts were wrong again. Until NIST&#8217;s final report came out in 2005, the &#8220;Pancake Theory&#8221; had replaced the column failure theory as the most widely accepted explanation for collapse. FEMA, along with a professor of Engineering from Northwestern, Zdenek Bazant, championed this theory of pancaking floors as the major explanation for the collapse of both towers, directly contradicting the Silverstein-Weidlinger report. This was strange, considering many of the same experts were involved in both the FEMA and Weidlinger investigations, including Gene Corley. 

Amazingly enough, just last summer NIST finally admitted that the explanation could not involve pancaking floors either, by saying &#8220;NIST&#8217;s findings do not support the &#8220;pancake theory&#8221; of collapse&#8221;.[13] NIST&#8217;s findings, first reported in their final draft report of October 2004 and built over a period of several years, originally consisted of two considerably different stories for the two towers. But NIST modified this nine months later in their final, final draft report, giving just one story for both towers about &#8220;widely-dislodged&#8221; fireproofing and sagging floors pulling the external columns inward, with no mention of pancaking. Their final, final collapse initiation sequence, the essence of their report, is now known to be false in every aspect.[14]


Through the years, NIST and the other official investigators ignored the demolition hypothesis completely, as can be seen from their reports and archived presentations. That&#8217;s not surprising though, as the scientists working for FEMA and NIST, and therefore for the Bush Administration, would not likely lead their investigation toward a result that would limit or stop the 9/11 Wars. For example John Gross of NIST and Therese McAllister of Greenhorne & O&#8217;Mara, who not only co-authored the most important sections of NIST&#8217;s report, but were also primary authors of FEMA&#8217;s report, continue to act deaf, dumb and blind when it comes to evidence for the demolition hypothesis.[15] And we can imagine that all those &#8220;independent&#8221; contractors who contributed to the ever-changing story, who were also consulting firms for the DOD&#8217;s interesting Blast Mitigation Action Group, would be hard-pressed to offer an explanation that would require a less militarily focused solution. 

The only supposedly independent corroboration that the Bush scientists at NIST could produce for their appalling pack of lies was from that old respected scientific institution, Popular Mechanics. This Hearst magazine is not, as most people know, a scientific publication in any way, shape or form. When they talk about Mechanics, they do not mean Quantum Mechanics or Statistical Mechanics, or even Classical Mechanics. Popular Mechanics (PM) is simply a gloss-covered advertisement for numerous consumer items ranging from ATVs to lawn mowers. You know &#8211; mechanics.

This hasn&#8217;t prevented many who cling to the official story from using PM as their scientific champion. For example, in his poorly researched hit piece against &#8220;conspiracy theorists&#8221;, British essayist George Monbiot foists Popular Mechanics upon us, saying they &#8220;polled 300 experts&#8221; to support their findings.[16] But science is not about popularity, and PM&#8217;s &#8220;poll&#8221; of &#8220;structural engineering/building collapse experts&#8221; actually consisted of only about 33 people, some of them listed as photographers, media-relations staff and spokespersons. Of those that were engineering-related, most were in some way related to OKC, FEMA, NIST or DOD, and many were responsible for the Weidlinger report, the Pancake Theory, or the NIST report.[17] It turns out that, when it comes to scientific explanations for terrorist acts, it&#8217;s a small world after all.

It&#8217;s in PM&#8217;s book, &#8220;Debunking 9/11 Myths&#8221;, that we find this survey. Here they include other figures like Forman Williams, although they fail to tell you that Dr. Williams was also a member of NIST&#8217;s top advisory committee, and therefore was defending his own work. Williams is presented by PM as a disinterested academic expert, but one must wonder how disinterested Williams was when the University of California San Diego received $393 million in federal grants in 2005, the same year the NIST WTC report came out, with his own Engineering department receiving $44 million of that sum.[18] Another of PM&#8217;s disinterested experts was Engineering professor Richard Fruehan of Carnegie Mellon University, an institute that received $100 million in federal grants that same year, with Engineering and research grants accounting for approximately half of the total. 

In the case of Popular Mechanics, we see people being quite openly deceptive in their strong support of the Bush Administration&#8217;s terror story. In their book they promote false claims that the government no longer supports, including the Pancake Theory. They also promote other, more ridiculous ideas including the claim that massive damage was done to the basement levels of a WTC tower by a bolus of jet fuel that meandered its way through several elevator shafts in the jogged elevator system, moving carefully around the elevators themselves and waiting all the while to explode in the sub-basements over 90 stories below. Additionally, PM repeats the false and ludicrous claim that the buildings were designed for airliner impacts, but not for jet fuel fires. In fact, John Skilling, the actual chief engineer of the WTC, made it clear in 1993 that jet fuel fires were considered in the structural design.[19]

In the forward to PM&#8217;s book, Republican Senator John McCain describes how he feels the truth behind September 11th is more mundane than &#8220;conspiracy mongers&#8221; would have us believe. Strangely, he refers us to the &#8220;banality of Nazi evil&#8221; to show that 9/11 was probably not an elaborate conspiracy. That is, according to McCain, 9/11 was probably NOT part of a simple plan by corporate-funded politicians to maintain and expand their power, but was instead the work of a small group of powerless fanatics whose plans to bring about worldwide totalitarian rule were held back only by our own cherished freedoms. That&#8217;s a tough bit to swallow, to be sure, but the idea that a Hearst publication would resort to the &#8220;banality of Nazi evil&#8221; is absolutely astounding. That&#8217;s because in writing this forward, Senator McCain joined an infamous group of Hearst publication authors, including Adolf Hitler and Hermann Goering, who wrote for Hearst, the latter until 1938.[20] 

Those of us fighting for the truth about 9/11 owe it to the victims of the expanding 9/11 Wars, and to ourselves, to reveal these ongoing lies from corporate criminals and their credentialed &#8220;experts&#8221;. It is becoming increasingly obvious that those giving us one false story after another, while simultaneously ignoring much of the evidence of 9/11, might have more than just a cozy relationship with this government, and more than a benign past. It seems quite possible that some among those providing these explanations are knowingly complicit in the greater crime of a 9/11 cover-up.

It is also true that, like Matthew Rothschild, many of us simply want quick and easy answers, in order to relieve ourselves of any need to think about the facts of 9/11 and the changes in worldview that might be demanded of such an examination. The problem is, the easy answers have all been wrong, while at the same time the experts have ignored one fairly simple hypothesis that is now becoming obvious to many. It should be clear that this is because the credentialed experts we&#8217;ve been dealing with are all quite well invested in maintaining the official version of events. 

1. Enough of the 9/11 Conspiracies, Already, The Progressive, Matthew Rothschild, September 11, 2006 Enough of the 9/11 Conspiracies, Already | The Progressive 

2. For a short description of DOD&#8217;s BMSP, see &#8220;Department of Defense Should Broaden Communication Efforts to Protect Federal and Civilian Buildings From Bomb Attacks&#8221;, The National Academy of Sciences, November 2001, Protecting People and Buildings from Terrorism: Technology Transfer for Blast-Effects Mitigation 

3. Missing Trillions: Rumsfeld Buries Admission of Missing 2+ Trillion Dollars in 9/10/01 Press Conference, 911Research.com, 9-11 Research: Missing Trillions 

4. US Army Corps of Engineers, Blast Mitigation Action Group (BMAG), Consulting Firms, https://bmag.usace.army.mil/consulting_firms.php 

5. Blast Loading and Response of Murrah Building, Mlakar, Corley, Sozen, Thornton, 1997, http://www.terrorisminfo.mipt.org/pdf/forensicengineering2.pdf 

6. General Partin&#8217;s letter to Senator Lott can be found in its entirety in the Final Report on the Bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, April, 19,1995, The Oklahoma Bombing Investigation Committee, Appendix, page 378-380. This letter is also reproduced here -http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/PARTIN/ok8.htm 

7. See Context of 'March 6, 2002: House Committee on Science Holds Hearing on WTC Collapses Investigation, Cooperative Research, Context of 'March 6, 2002: House Committee on Science Holds Hearing on WTC Collapses Investigation' 

8.&#8220;When the Twin Towers Fell&#8221;, Scientific American, October 9, 2001 Scientific American: Explore!: When the Twin Towers Fell: October 09, 2001 

9. The US State Department still appears to be promoting this first false theory by promoting Osama (Fatty) Bin Laden&#8217;s baseless statements. US State Department website: The Top September 11 Conspiracy Theories, http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/d...6&m=August&x=20060828133846esnamfuaK0.2676355 

10. Profile: Weidlinger Associates, Cooperative Research Weidlinger Associates 

11. &#8220;Report Ties WTC Collapses to Column Failures&#8221;, Engineering News-Record, 10/25/02, McGraw Hill Construction, http://www.construction.com/NewsCenter/Headlines/ENR/20021025b.asp 

12. Study Absolves Twin Tower Trusses, Fireproofing, Engineering News-Record, 11/04/02 McGraw-Hill Construction | ENR - Study Absolves Twin Tower Trusses, Fireproofing 

13. Answers to Frequently Asked Questions, August 2006, National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster, NIST's Investigation of the Sept. 11 World Trade Center Disaster - Frequently Asked Questions 

14. See my essay, What is 9/11 Truth? &#8211; The First Steps, at the Journal of 911 Studies, Journal of 9/11 Studies . Also see the critique of my presentation Review of 'A New Standard For Deception: The NIST WTC Report' A Presentation by Kevin Ryan, Jim Hoffman, 911Research.com, 10/15/06 Review of 'A New Standard For Deception' A Presentation by Kevin Ryan 

15. See video of John Gross&#8217; presentation at the University of Texas Austin, with testimonies and evidence of molten metal at the WTC. Project for New American Citizens, NIST Engineer, John Gross, Denies Reports About Molten Steel at the WTC | 911Blogger.com 

16. &#8220;A 9/11 Conspiracy Virus is Sweeping the World, But it Has No Basis in Fact&#8221;, George Monbiot, The Guardian, February 6, 2007, George Monbiot: A 9/11 conspiracy virus is sweeping the world, but it has no basis in fact | Comment is free | The Guardian 

17. Debunking 9/11 Myths: Why Conspiracy Theories Can&#8217;t Stand up to the Facts, Dunbar & Reagan, Hearst Press, 2006. Note: See also Eduardo (melting steel) Kausel&#8217;s glowing review in the front cover.

18. See Fedspending.org, Grants, Welcome to FedSpending.org 

19. City in the Sky: The Rise and Fall of the World Trade Center, James Glanz and Eric Lipton, (New York: Times Books, 2003), 138

20. Remembering &#8220;The Chief&#8221;, PBS&#8217;s Online NewsHour, 9/07/00, Online NewsHour: The Chief -- September 7, 2000 


 Global Research Articles by Kevin Ryan 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please support Global Research 
Global Research relies on the financial support of its readers.


Your endorsement is greatly appreciated


Subscribe to the Global Research E-Newsletter 

Spread the word! Forward to a friend! 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Disclaimer: The views expressed in this article are the sole responsibility of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the Centre for Research on Globalization. The contents of this article are of sole responsibility of the author(s). The Centre for Research on Globalization will not be responsible or liable for any inaccurate or incorrect statements contained in this article.

To become a Member of Global Research

The CRG grants permission to cross-post original Global Research articles on community internet sites as long as the text & title are not modified. The source and the author's copyright must be displayed. For publication of Global Research articles in print or other forms including commercial internet sites, contact: crgeditor@yahoo.com 

GlobalResearch.ca - Centre for Research on Globalization contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available to our readers under the provisions of "fair use" in an effort to advance a better understanding of political, economic and social issues. The material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving it for research and educational purposes. If you wish to use copyrighted material for purposes other than "fair use" you must request permission from the copyright owner.

For media inquiries: crgeditor@yahoo.com

© Copyright Kevin Ryan, 9/11 blogspot, 2007 

The url address of this article is: 9/11: Looking for Truth in Credentials: The Peculiar WTC Experts 




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Privacy Policy 

© Copyright 2005-2009 GlobalResearch.ca
Web site engine by Polygraphx Multimedia © Copyright 2005-2009


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 21, 2009)

Accidental double post.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 21, 2009)

AboutF.A.Q.Site FeaturesContact UsRulesHelpUser Blog Ratings
Recent Headlines
Is it Science or Honesty that NIST Lacks?
Anthony Hall: Bush League Justice
Political Leaders for 9/11 Truth Launches
Baxter and the Avian Flu
The Kingdome & The WTC
Anthrax spores don't match dead researcher's samples
9/11 Truth at the American Citizens Summit
Medical Professionals for 9/11 Truth Launches
William Rodriguez Vindicated
Obama Administration Continues US Military Global Dominance
9/11 Truth and the "Big Tent" Approach
Nanotechnology: 9/11 and the Future
Truth & Deception: An Interview with Kevin Ryan on 9/11
Torture, Rendition, Terror & Oil: A Primer on "Deep Politics"
Obama: Reopen the 9/11 Investigation
Obama's 'War on Terror'
Religious Leaders for 9/11 Truth Launches
Additional Non-Pilot Control Capabilities of 9/11 Planes
New York Times: The Political Suspicions of 9/11 (Sunjata)
Australian Truth Conference Announced
Nafeez Ahmed - Obama: Regime Rotation
Rehearsing 9/11
Obama and 9/11
Terrorists Working for Western Countries
DOE EXERCISE 03-01 JACKAL CAVE
Whistleblower: NSA spied on everyone, targeted journalists
AE911Truth: 2009 - A New Year - More Success Ahead!
Michael Parenti: Capitalism&#8217;s Self-inflicted Apocalypse
Graeme MacQueen & Tony Szamboti: 'The Missing Jolt'

Recent Media
Video: David Slesinger talks to Howard Zinn
Video: "An Unholy Alliance"
Video: Professor Michael Keefer on Canada's "War on Terror"
Video: R.I.P. Beverly Eckert
Video: Peter Dale Scott - Saving American Politics from the Present Two-Party System
Video: OUTFOXED: Rupert Murdoch's War on Journalism
Video: R.I.P. Dan Wallace
Video: North Texans for 9/11 Truth on MLK Day
Video: Norman Finkelstein on Gaza
Video: Michel Chossudovsky: The Global Financial Crisis
Video: NEADS Operator at 9:16: Be Careful What You Say on Tape
Video: Anthony Cipriano 9/11 first Plane witness
Video: FDNY - Explosions
Video: William Rodriguez and Annie Machon ex MI5 whistle blower travel across Europe
Video: NEADS Staff Joke about Second Hijack
Audio: Visibility 9-11 Welcomes Singer/Songwriter Jesse Goplen
Video: Downward Acceleration of the North Tower
Nafeez Ahmed on 7/7 and 9/11
Canadian Academics discuss: "9/11 and the Global Community"
Kevin Ryan interviewed on Alex Jones show - 12.29.2008
Operation Northwoods Exposed

Action Items
Ask A Lawyer to Join Lawyers for 9/11 Truth
THURSDAY March 19 leave work & school to PROTEST the 6th anniversary of the Iraq War
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
Support 9/11 First Responders
9/11 Email
Pledge: No False Flags or Martial Law

Blogads
Blogad Sponsors
David Ray Griffin on Tour! An Evening with David Ray Griffin . . . 
Lecture:  "9/11: Time for a Second Look"

Tuesday, April 7th:
6:00 pm  Cocktails
6:30        Dinner
7:45        Lecture

MIMS Food & Drink (Upstairs)
110 N. Wayne Avenue
Wayne, PA  19087

$35 per person. Includes dinner, lecture and book.
Please call 610.688.0800 for reservations.    
Read more... AE911Truth.org
Read more...WAIT! THERE'S MORE PART II 
If you're Active, Retired or Ex-Military...

You know what MWR is.

If not, find out here.
Read more...NO LIES RADIO -- 24*7 Click Here To Listen!
NO LIES RADIO
Daily 911Truth Teach-in
24*7 Pacifica Radio Network
Music - Talk - News - 911Truth - Anti-War - Freedom - Justice - Earth - Spirit
Read more...Advertise here
Asbestos Dangers



Mesothelioma is a dreaded cancer that is nearly always caused by just one factor: asbestos exposure.

FACT: Family members of those who are regularly exposed to high levels of asbestos also have a high risk of developing malignant mesothelioma.

Get the news, get the facts. 

Banner Exchange

truthaction.org


911truth.org


visibility911.com


Washington, D.C. 9/11 Truth 
User login
Username: *

Password: *


Request new password

9/11 Inquiry Sites
Architects & Engineers
for 9/11 Truth
Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice
Journal of 9/11 Studies
CooperativeResearch
nyc911initiative.org 
9/11 Regional Sites
The 9/11 Working Group of Bloomington, Indiana
dc911truth.org
sf911truth.org
vt911.org
9-11.meetup.com
philly911truth.org 
9/11 Related Sites
0x1a.com
911Research.WTC7.net
9/11 Environmental Action
911review.com
911proof.com
911Truth.org
truthmove.org
911pressfortruth.com
patriotsquestion911.com
911revisited.com
william911.com
Family Steering Committee for the 9/11 Independent Commission
International Citizens' Inquiry Into 9/11
truthaction.org
911readingroom.org
9eleven.info
tyrannyalert.com
universalseed.org
deceptiondollar.com
legitgov.org
911omissionreport.com
timetowakeup.net
911tv.org
grandtheftcountry.com
Youth for 9/11 Truth
truth911.net
justacitizen.com
MartialLaw911.info
911truestory.com
911sharethetruth.com
wanttoknow.info
explosive911analysis.com
flight93crash.com
911bookshelf.com
summeroftruth.org
supportthetruth.com
mime11.com
physics911.net
911docs.net
nw0.info
investigate911.com
theultimateconspiracy.com
9/11 International Sites
torontochange.com
911sandhed.nu
i 11. time
investigar11s.org
911truth.no
911belgium.be
v911truth.org
stoplying.ca
911truth.eu
911truthpeterborough.com
luogocomune.net
911info.se
1192001.dk
11syyskuu.org
serendipity.li
eqgen.nl/aanslagen911
onderzoek911.nl
waarheid911.nl
zapruder.nl
911truthbristol.com
911truthtotnes.com
september11.se
vaken.se
911oz.com
nineeleven.co.uk
hintergrund.de
broeckers.com
thecoop.tv
operation911.de
medienanalyse-international.de
911komplott.de
deepjournal.com
truth4peace.co.uk
911truthskipton.com
wytruth.org.uk
reopen911.info
editionsdemilune.com
cremationofcare.com
Investigate 9/11
9/11 Truth Europe
911.yweb.sk 
9/11 Memorial Sites
fealgoodfoundation.com
gearupfoundation.org
twintowersalliance.com
9-11heroes.us
theheartofsteel.com 
Alternative News Sites
Dandelion Salad
The New American Dream
The Raw Story
The Real News.com
Featured Story
TV News Lies
Garlic & Grass
infowars.com
meria.net
whatreallyhappened.com
rinf.com
knowledgedrivenrevolution.com
informationclearinghouse.info
globalresearch.ca
globaloutlook.ca
The Revolutionist
mathaba.net
bushtrash.com
flybynews.com
fracturednews.com
thefairandbalancednews.com 
Blog Roll
Dandelion Salad
Mark Crispin Miller
Pimpin' Turtle
American's Journey
damien911.blogspot.com
RIGOROUS INTUITION
Loose Change blog
tvnewslies.org/blog
Rosie.com
George Washington
Not a Sheep
Questioning the War on Terrorism
culhavoc.blogsome.com
mackwhite.com
arabesque911.blogspot.com 
RSS Feeds

There,not that you 9/11 apologists will read it or anything but me and eots have supplied you there with tons of information and proof there that 9/11 was an inside job and that popular mechanics is nothing but a fairy tale.Nothing more to say.9/11 was an inside job and popular mechanics participated in the coverup.nuff said. case closed.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 21, 2009)

accidental double post.


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 21, 2009)

just more mindlkess C&P from a moronic troofer liar


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 21, 2009)

I wish someone who is actually open minded but has doubts about the official version  but isnt sold that 9/11 was an inside job like Philly to come on here and read what me and Eots have posted and address what  our posts said.someone like that who I actually enjoy debating with.anybody but this frady cat idiot Divecon.Kevin Ryan by the way is someone I used in these posts because he is a very credible source.He worked for the steel company that built the towers.He was a chemist who got fired shortly afterwards for going public criticising the NIST report as he just did here.as witnessed in my last post,he does an outstanding job of proving how you cant believe what the investigaters of popular mechanics say.that they are not independent investigaters like they were touted to be.that they all have government contracts so if they dont go along with the government version,they lose future government contract work.great piece of his.


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 21, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> I wish someone who is actually open minded but has doubts about the official version but isnt sold that 9/11 was an inside job like Philly to come on here and read what me and Eots have posted and address what our posts said.someone like that who I actually enjoy debating with.anybody but this frady cat idiot Divecon.kevin Ryan by the way is some I used in these posts because he is a very credible source.he worked for the steel company that built the towers and was a chemist who got fired shortly afterwards for going public criticising the NIST report as he just did here.


and who has who on ignore?
so, who is the "frady cat"
LOL


and you troofers are fucking MORONS
nothing you post changes anything because its all lies and twisted crap


----------



## eots (Mar 22, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > I wish someone who is actually open minded but has doubts about the official version but isnt sold that 9/11 was an inside job like Philly to come on here and read what me and Eots have posted and address what our posts said.someone like that who I actually enjoy debating with.anybody but this frady cat idiot Divecon.kevin Ryan by the way is some I used in these posts because he is a very credible source.he worked for the steel company that built the towers and was a chemist who got fired shortly afterwards for going public criticising the NIST report as he just did here.
> ...



divecon debates consist of childish denial...it is sad to wittiness..and the saddest part is poor little retarded divecon...actual believes he is of normal intelligence


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 22, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...


actually i have rather high IQ
which i doubt you would begin to understand


----------



## Xenophon (Mar 22, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> I would like you troofers to explain to us why Popular Mechanics is wrong.


And I'd like to win lotto, like that is going to happen soon either.


----------



## eots (Mar 22, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



stop lying...your below average at best


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 22, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


you need to stop YOUR lying
you troofers lie WAY too much


----------



## eots (Mar 22, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpckijMVe3I&feature=related]YouTube - 9/11 Debate: Loose Change vs. Popular Mechanics pt. 4[/ame]


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 22, 2009)

eots said:


> YouTube - 9/11 Debate: Loose Change vs. Popular Mechanics pt. 4


and the loose change morons had their asses handed to them


----------



## sitarro (Mar 22, 2009)

I stood under a Boeing 767-400 last night and what amazes me is that an aircraft that huge, full of freight, fuel and a bunch of people, flying in excess of 500 mph, could hit a building and not knock it over.


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 22, 2009)

sitarro said:


> I stood under a Boeing 767-400 last night and what amazes me is that an aircraft that huge, full of freight, fuel and a bunch of people, flying in excess of 500 mph, could hit a building and not knock it over.


most people, with common sense, reject this nonsense because it is nonsense
its only a small few that must be deficient in something(hormonal, or dietary) that makes them easy prey for that charlatan Alex Jones


----------



## Terral (Mar 22, 2009)

Hi Elvis:



elvis3577 said:


> I would like you troofers to explain to us why Popular Mechanics is wrong.


 
  No. Offer up Elvis evidence that *Jim Meigs* and his band of *Loyal Bushie LIARS* are right about anything at all. 

Serendipity Website



> [FONT=Callisto MT,Georgia,Book Antiqua,Palatino,Times New Roman,Serif]For those of you who have looked unemotionally at the events of 9/11, it is not unusual to be left wondering *how those members of the US government who were clearly complicit in the murder of 3,000 of their own citizens can remain so smug and seemingly self-assured*. To find the answer we need look no further than *the Jim Meigs' of this world*. [/FONT][FONT=Callisto MT,Georgia,Book Antiqua,Palatino,Times New Roman,Serif]
> [/FONT]
> [FONT=Callisto MT,Georgia,Book Antiqua,Palatino,Times New Roman,Serif]You see, it is people like Meigs who* lack any love or appreciation for the truth *and *worship only their subjective view of the world* that make it so easy for *big government to commit big crime*. At present there are *millions of Americans and others around the world* who, aided by the *years of social conditioning and media mind programming*, drew a very clear line around *what they would and would not believe *about their government and country. Most of what was inside the line was *"feel good" stuff *about* "greatest democracy on earth"* and other* jingoistic nonsense*, with perhaps a few admissions that *"sometimes bad things happen"* and *"not everyone is a saint"*. This mindset provided (and continues to provide) a perfect opportunity for *unscrupulous US politicians to literally get away with the murder* of which most of the US public refuse to believe they are capable.[/FONT]


I argue against their *Official Cover Story nonsense* on this *Loose Change thread* (here) if anybody is interested. If Elvis wants to quote from *any of Jim Meigs stupidity* then I am happy to come behind and present the opposing views and show that *Popular Mechanics has been running diversion for the out-of-control Bushie Administration* from the very beginning. 

  GL,

  Terral


----------



## Terral (Mar 22, 2009)

Hi Sitarro and Ms. Kitty (challenged to answer this post here):



sitarro said:


> I stood under a Boeing 767-400 last night and what amazes me is that an aircraft that huge, full of freight, fuel and a bunch of people, flying in excess of 500 mph, could hit a building and not knock it over.


 
  Try to imagine *a real 100-ton Jetliner crashing* (pic) into this *standing E-Ring Pentagon Wall . . . *







*. . . at 530 miles per hour* (This is what really happened). :0) Then Jim Meigs and his band of PM retards start *lying like there is no tomorrow* and We The People are just supposed to *act ridiculously STUPID* and swallow their nonsense. These Military Experts say no 100-ton Jetliner crashed into the Pentagon!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKhBzAh_eeA"]Believe Jim Meigs Or These Experts![/ame]

Here is the very location where Jim Meigs says a real 100-ton Jetliner did one of these numbers (pic = my thread):






  Just look into the empty hole and tell us what Sitarro sees, because all I see is the empty hole like the News Reports saw on 9/11:

  [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZekosYOmXc"]News About The Empty Hole[/ame]

  Why is Popular Mechanics WRONG? Let me count the ways . . . 






This is the size of a real 100-ton Jetliner versus the little *20-feet diameter hole* that has *grass growing on all the inclines* (pic) AND is *no more than just 4 feet deep* (pic). Go ahead and click on the *little video clip* (here) and tell everyone what you see. Then click on *this link* (here) to realize that this little hole was already there in *1994* from *a strip mining dig* that turned up nothing. 

*Jim Meigs is a LIAR* and I have tried to engage his pencil-neck sorry-ass staff (worthless cowards) in a real debate and they whine like babies.

  GL,

  Terral


----------



## KittenKoder (Mar 22, 2009)

sitarro said:


> I stood under a Boeing 767-400 last night and what amazes me is that an aircraft that huge, full of freight, fuel and a bunch of people, flying in excess of 500 mph, could hit a building and not knock it over.



Dude! Really?!?! Someone ... anyone ... please get this person a brain ... please.


----------



## KittenKoder (Mar 22, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



What ... conspiracy theories are based on lies? No way .. that's just not possible! Only the truth could possibly be based on lies, never a conspiracy theory!

(Sarcasm in case you missed it, and I can say that DiveCons IQ is much higher than anyone who thinks it's all a conspiracy.)


----------



## Terral (Mar 22, 2009)

Hi Kitten:



KittenKoder said:


> sitarro said:
> 
> 
> > I stood under a Boeing 767-400 last night and what amazes me is that an aircraft that huge, full of freight, fuel and a bunch of people, flying in excess of 500 mph, could hit a building and not knock it over.
> ...



Sitarro made an excellent observation that real 100-ton Jetliners are MASSIVE indeed. Let's see if Kitten has half a brain and can answer my supported arguments that you completely ignored in Post #45. 

Guess what? This *'real' 911Truther* is not holding his breath . . . 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2THs3oNooM"]Ms. Kitty And Terral In A Real 9/11 Debate?[/ame]

GL,

Terral


----------



## KittenKoder (Mar 22, 2009)

Again I say this, there are millions of links online and 99.999% are just rants and opinions. So meh to whatever you think is fact.

No, building don't "knock over" for anything, well anything short of a massive force. They can collapse if certain beams are broken, which is what happened. Conspiracy nutjobs just want to blame the government for everything. Here's a little fact you like to ignore: Bush is too stupid to orchistrate much less keep quiet about this anyway, so even if there was a tiny bit of fact to it being a conspiracy he would have dropped the ball a long time ago. It's been more than 6 years, still no ball dropped. So, either Bush was a genius who did everything on purpose, fucked himself over, and made us all think he was a baffoon for what reason? Just to blow up a couple of towers? Really now.

That's without even pointing out all the scientific flaws in this conspiracy theory ... fun times.


----------



## Toro (Mar 22, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



Its also, according Terral, part of a plan to destroy the US economy.


----------



## KittenKoder (Mar 22, 2009)

Toro said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



Eeek!


----------



## Terral (Mar 22, 2009)

Hi Kitten with Sitarro mentioned:

  No. I was not holding my breath, because Ms. Kitty has a 9/11 case for NOTHING.



KittenKoder said:


> Again I say this, there are millions of links online and 99.999% are just rants and opinions. So meh to whatever you think is fact.


 
  And this from the cartoon character who just tried to make Sitarro look foolish by saying:



KittenKoder said:


> Dude! Really?!?! *Someone ... anyone ... please get this person a brain* ... please.


 
  Where is Ms. Kitty showing ANYONE that she has BRAIN? Post #45 is sitting there waiting for *your &#8216;brainy&#8217; reply* . . . Lordy . . . 



KittenKoder said:


> No, building don't "knock over" for anything, well anything short of a massive force.


 
  Hey! Ms. Brain! Just show us *your pictures *of *Flight 93 crashed* in* the empty hole* (pic) and *AA77 crashed* into the *Pentagon* (pic) and stop all this foolishness! You either *&#8216;have&#8217; a case* supported by the EVIDENCE or *you do not!* Jim Meigs also says that two 100-ton Jetliners crashed into *this empty hole* (clip again) and into *this standing E-ring wall* (pic); JUST LIKE YOU. Are we clear on that fact? Show us your pictures or dry up! :0)  



KittenKoder said:


> They can collapse if certain beams are broken, which is what happened.


 
  Certain beams? Lord-Have-Mercy! We are talking about a 47-story skyscraper!






  Which one of these *&#8216;beams&#8217;* are you going to break (heh) to cause the entire building to collapse in 6.6 seconds???

  [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD06SAf0p9A"]Ms. Kitty&#8217;s Beam Must Have Broken :0)[/ame]

  Here is a picture of WTC-7 collapsing at freefall speed:






  How did your *&#8216;beams&#8217;* (heh) get broken through the *unbroken windows?* Do you see any sign of *fire *through any of the unbroken windows? No. How do you 'break' massive red-iron beams using fires anyway? :0) Ms. Kitty is saying that if I want to knock down a 47 story building &#8216;and&#8217; damage none of the buildings around it, then I go in and break a few beams and this happens:






  No way! All of the massive red-iron columns, beams, girders and bar-joists *HAVE BEEN SEVERED*, which is easy to understand once you realize the entire steel-frame network should be *bolted and welded together into a single unit*. This is clearly a Controlled Demolition Job (my thread) and nothing Ms. Kitty says changing that simple fact. 



KittenKoder said:


> Conspiracy nutjobs just want to blame the government for everything.


 
  People inside our own Government are the ONLY real terrorists with the* &#8220;means, motive and opportunity&#8221;* (Wiki), not only to plan and carry out these atrocities, but also to run the DoD Cover-up Operation using &#8216;assets&#8217; like Jim Meigs and his Popular Mechanic Cronies. Lots of people with &#8216;brains&#8217; know these things to be 100 percent truth:

911Review.com



> *The 9/11/01 Attack:
> Means, Motive, and Precedent*
> 
> The execution of the September 11, 2001 attack required means possessed *only by insiders in the U.S. government*, and not by the alleged perpetrators, Osama bin Laden and his minions. An examination of who benefited from the attack also points to an inside job. While this notion is widely ridiculed, numerous historical precedents of false-flag operations give it credence.
> ...



 


KittenKoder said:


> Here's a little fact you like to ignore: Bush is too stupid to orchistrate much less keep quiet about this anyway, so even if there was a tiny bit of fact to it being a conspiracy he would have dropped the ball a long time ago.



 I bet Senor Bushie 'can' spell 'orchestrate' unlike some of the people around here! Bush is obviously an idiot, but he is also only a puppet for the real bad guys like Obama, but that changes NOTHING about the fact that he is definitely a LIAR 'and' Jim Meigs is his lying accomplice eusa_liar, just like you. 




KittenKoder said:


> It's been more than 6 years, still no ball dropped. So, either Bush was a genius who did everything on purpose, fucked himself over, and made us all think he was a baffoon for what reason? Just to blow up a couple of towers? Really now.


Please forgive, Ms. Kitty, but Senor Bush, Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and John Ashcroft have made a big DUPE out of you for more than six years 'and' you seem very proud of that fact to boot! :0) 




KittenKoder said:


> That's without even pointing out all the scientific flaws in this conspiracy theory ... fun times.


Pointing out what? Ms. Kitty is standing on her soapbox singing *Loyal Bushie LIES* to beat the band and without offering up one shred of evidence for ANYTHING. Please post the links *to 'your' 911Truth threads* explaining how *the Official Cover Story 'is' supported by the evidence*. The fact is that Senor Bush and his inside-job cohorts became *the very first "Conspiracy Theorists"* in the day they pointed the finger at a group of men looking very much like these guys to say:







[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K5M0xtxQVQ"]This Is The GUILTY Party[/ame]

Then George Bush got caught in a BIG FAT LIE that Ms. Kitty might want to explain:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm73wOuPL60&NR=1"]Bush Has Been LYING From Day One!![/ame]

How many remember Senor Bushie's "Stay The Course" LIE?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_SDGb-TJcU&NR=1"]Senor Bush Believe His Own LIES[/ame]

The question then becomes: Who is more guilty of *deceiving We The People* about *these 9/11 atrocities* against innocent Americans? Would that be the *bad guys* who used Senor Bush 'and' now run the DoD/FBI Cover-up Operation, OR *the people* coming to *this USMessageBoard.com "Conspiracy Theory" Forum* to try and convince everyone that *there is no such thing as any conspiracy* at all?? :0)

These brainless idiots fail to realize that the *Official Cover Story is 'the' Conspiracy Theory* that *they are endorsing* 'and' *supporting* 'and' *shoving down our throats* every day around here. Guess what? Many of the supposed hijackers have been found very much alive!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7ixuf236Dk"]You Are Helping LIARS[/ame]

When Senor Bush and his partners are thrown into the *lake of fire* with *all liars* (Rev. 21:8), then those telling Loyal Bushie LIES will be right behind him. And we have all the evidence we need to convict you right here on this thread . . . Watch and see . . . 

GL,

Terral


----------



## KittenKoder (Mar 22, 2009)

You have no proof, only Bushisms that are funny and show he isn't intelligent enough to even cover a pebble. I know little about architecture but even I know you are so full of shit.


----------



## Terral (Mar 22, 2009)

Hi Kitten:



KittenKoder said:


> You have no proof, only Bushisms that are funny and show he isn't intelligent enough to even cover a pebble. I know little about architecture but even I know you are so full of shit.


 
  Well, I know a bunch about architecture, tearing commercial buildings down 'and' building them up again (link = check #3). I also remember Ms. Kitty saying something about getting somebody else a brain . . .




KittenKoder said:


> Dude! Really?!?! Someone ... anyone ... please get this person a brain ... please.


Just imagine what Ms. Kitty could do if she . . . 

  [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOKK8mAkiUI"]. . . Only Had A Brain. :0)[/ame]

  Be careful about *pointing fingers* and accusing others, because those three witnesses are definitely pointing straight back at you right now.

  GL,

  Terral


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 22, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



you lost your crediblity there big time.Divecon is easily head and shoulders by far the biggest idiot 9/11 apologist here at this site.no contest.He is the biggest liar of them all.Eots only posts FACTS.As I posted before,Divecon always puts his tail between his legs and posts nothing but B.S ANYTIME we challenge him to debunk a video we challenge him to watch.He NEVER watches them.He even admitted a few pages back he did not watch Eots video.Thats hardly a way to earn credibility in a debate and not the proper way to go about proving a point.

you need to look in the mirror when saying-please give this guy a brain.


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 22, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


you are such a moron
glad to know i own so much real estate in that puny mind of yours


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 22, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Again I say this, there are millions of links online and 99.999% are just rants and opinions. So meh to whatever you think is fact.
> 
> No, building don't "knock over" for anything, well anything short of a massive force. They can collapse if certain beams are broken, which is what happened. Conspiracy nutjobs just want to blame the government for everything. Here's a little fact you like to ignore: Bush is too stupid to orchistrate much less keep quiet about this anyway, so even if there was a tiny bit of fact to it being a conspiracy he would have dropped the ball a long time ago. It's been more than 6 years, still no ball dropped. So, either Bush was a genius who did everything on purpose, fucked himself over, and made us all think he was a baffoon for what reason? Just to blow up a couple of towers? Really now.
> 
> That's without even pointing out all the scientific flaws in this conspiracy theory ... fun times.



thats just it,that idiot Bush DID screw up by admitting that explosives were planted in the towers.Eots has posted that video before but the 9/11 apologists here such as yourself live in denial and say stuff like-thats not proof and crap like that.Also heres a little fact that your obviously not aware of that you 9/11 apologists always ignore.Bush Sr was the former director of the CIA and Bush's brother Marvin Bush was in charge of the security for the towers.There were unknown workmen going in and out of the buildings in the prior months leading up to 9/11.the workers reported hearing unusual construction work going on in the floors above them.the workers were not permitted to go in there and see what was going on.they call security on you if you do something like that.try entering a hard hat area sometime where construction is going on where they post signs that say KEEP OUT.you'll find out what i am talking about.

theres PLENTY of balls that have been dropped.just cause you dont want to see them doesnt mean they havent.the evidence is overwhelming that explosives brought the towers down.heres ANOTHER fact you 9/11 apologists always ignore.just seconds BEFORE the airliner struck the tower from above,witnesses reported hearing and seeing explosions going off in the BASEMENT floors below.a man came out of the elevater on fire yelling out-oh my god,theres explosions going on in the basements!!!! and bystanders walking by saw these coworkers carrying the man out of the towers on fire as well.the footage backs them up as well.There is ALSO repressed footage I have posted countless numbers of times showing the towers eminating black smoke from the ground below and the sounds of explosions going off even BEFORE the towers have fallen down.I would post it here but everytime I do,you apologists put your tail between your legs and run off without watching them.you already proved that by doing the divecon thing,not bothering to watch Eots video he posted.


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 22, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > Again I say this, there are millions of links online and 99.999% are just rants and opinions. So meh to whatever you think is fact.
> ...


why should we bother to watch the crap you post when it has already been debunked six ways from sunday

all your arguments have been debated and debunked, you guys have NOTHING
thats why i dont waste my time doing anything but make fun of you assholes


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 22, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Again I say this, there are millions of links online and 99.999% are just rants and opinions. So meh to whatever you think is fact.
> 
> No, building don't "knock over" for anything, well anything short of a massive force. They can collapse if certain beams are broken, which is what happened. Conspiracy nutjobs just want to blame the government for everything. Here's a little fact you like to ignore: Bush is too stupid to orchistrate much less keep quiet about this anyway, so even if there was a tiny bit of fact to it being a conspiracy he would have dropped the ball a long time ago. It's been more than 6 years, still no ball dropped. So, either Bush was a genius who did everything on purpose, fucked himself over, and made us all think he was a baffoon for what reason? Just to blow up a couple of towers? Really now.
> 
> That's without even pointing out all the scientific flaws in this conspiracy theory ... fun times.



theres one hundred times more scientific flaws in the official conspiracy theory than there is that it was an inside job and yeah the 99.999% links online that defend the official version, are the rants and opinions dude.As I just proved in my last post though,if you would actually take the time to watch one of my videos that has been repressed from the public,it shows billowing black smoke coming from the ground and you hear explosions going off before the towers fall.Seeing how you are idiotic enough to defend divecon though,I know it wwould be a waste of time though and you wont bother watching them since you did not bother watching Eots video.You can say  all you want about links having rants and opinions but the film footage taken that day you cant deny.the film footage shows overwhemling evidence explosives went off.stop listening to that idiot divecon,and START listening to what Terral  Eots  and myself post and take the time to watch the videos we post.that way you'll realise you have been brainwashed by the propaganda media.if you continue to do what divecon and the other 9/11 apologists do,bury your heads in the sand like an ostrich and dont watch those videos,you are a Bush dupe and they love you for being that.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 22, 2009)

and who has who on ignore?
so, who is the "frady cat"
LOL


and you troofers are fucking MORONS
nothing you post changes anything because its all lies and twisted crap[/QUOTE]

divecon debates consist of childish denial...it is sad to wittiness..and the saddest part is poor little retarded divecon...actual believes he is of normal intelligence[/QUOTE]

for the 100 freaking time you freaking moron I have you on ignore Divecon because anytime people like me and Eots or Terral  are trying to have a civilized discussion about 9/11 with someone who will discuss it with us without getting into name calling and insults you come in and start calling us childish names like the true child you are.YOUR the freaking idiot who posts lies and twisted crap..Eots is right about you,your retarded and it really IS sad that you actually believe you have normal intelligence. I wish to god Eots would stop quoting you because I like to read his posts but he always quotes you and makes my ignore button ineffective unfortunately.


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 22, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> for the 100 freaking time you freaking moron I have you on ignore Divecon because anytime people like me and Eots or Terral are trying to have a civilized discussion about 9/11 with someone who will discuss it with us without getting into name calling and insults you come in and start calling us childish names like the true child you are.YOUR the freaking idiot who posts lies and twisted crap..Eots is right about you,your retarded and it really IS sad that you actually believe you have normal intelligence. I wish to god Eots would stop quoting you because I like to read his posts but he always quotes you and makes my ignore button ineffective unfortunately.


you guys NEVER have a civalized debate
you are too fucking stupid to have them
you just post more bullshit and call it facts even though it has been debunked a thousand times


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 22, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > as if anyone is gonna watch any video you post
> ...


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 22, 2009)

that being said,come on Eots and Terral.Lets leave this thread.Eots you already proved that popular mechanics is a bunch of B.S full of lies and propaganda with your first post on page two with that video.I already proved it with my first and third post on that same page.Terral your link in your sig about the pentagan with that video they can click on and watch proves in spades that popular mechanics lied their asses off about the pentagon story.These frady cat Bush dupes like divecon wont take the time though obviously to watch the videos since they know they cant debunk them.so why bother with these frady cats anymore? The thread asked the question why popular mechanics cant be trusted,we proved it with our videos and posts here,lets move on and let these idiots talk to themselves and fill the thread with drivel and one liners,their not worth wasting your breath on anymore especially since they have proved in spades,they talk shit and wont watch any of our 9/11 truth videos.


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 22, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > as if anyone is gonna watch any video you post
> ...


yeah, why should i watch it the 1000nd time you post it when i did the very first time and it was all BULLSHIT


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 22, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> You have no proof, only Bushisms that are funny and show he isn't intelligent enough to even cover a pebble. I know little about architecture but even I know you are so full of shit.



yeah the 9/11 Bush dupes like yourself and Divecon are so full of shit.we know.No need to let us know about that.thats old news.


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 22, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > You have no proof, only Bushisms that are funny and show he isn't intelligent enough to even cover a pebble. I know little about architecture but even I know you are so full of shit.
> ...


sorry, but i didnt support bush, and neither did she
this has NOTHING to do with bush, this has to do with believeing reality and facts
you troofer morons dont deal with either


seek out professional help, you REALLY need it


----------



## eots (Mar 22, 2009)

*divecon here are some medical professionals that i think might be able to help you*


Respected Medical Professionals Launch New 9/11 Truth Group

In response to growing concerns about ommissions, distortions, and contradictions in the official account of 9/11, an alliance of doctors, dentists, nurses, therapists, researchers, and other medical professionals has formed a new 911 Truth group.  Calling themselves Medical Professionals for 9/11 Truth, the group has launched an online petition calling for a new investigation into the events of 9/11, which can be seen on the group&#8217;s website at Medical Professionals for 9/11 Truth.

OpEdNews » Respected Medical Professionals Launch New 9/11 Truth Group


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 22, 2009)

eots said:


> *divecon here are some medical professionals that i think might be able to help you*
> 
> 
> Respected Medical Professionals Launch New 9/11 Truth Group
> ...


ROFLMAO
so a bunch of morons formed a new group
so what else is new
i bet they are as valid as the rest of the groups you post


meaning THEY ARENT
you troofers are the biggest liars on the face of the earth


----------



## sitarro (Mar 22, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> sitarro said:
> 
> 
> > I stood under a Boeing 767-400 last night and what amazes me is that an aircraft that huge, full of freight, fuel and a bunch of people, flying in excess of 500 mph, could hit a building and not knock it over.
> ...



What's this suppose to mean? 

Have you ever gotten out from behind your lousy Windoze based pile of shit and stood close to something as large as a 767? Not inside but underneath. Have you watched as pallet upon pallet of very heavy freight is placed inside the belly of this giant plane? I was working on one last night and loaded 30,000 pounds of freight on it's way to Rio. There was also 250 passengers and their luggage averaging 2 at 50 pounds each, many weighed much more. Takeoff weight of a loaded 767 400 is over 400,000 pounds. That, taxiing, would cause a lot of damage hitting a building......... flying at 500 mph would pack quite a punch. The World Trade Center buildings weren't built the same way that all other buildings before them, they were firsts. They didn't have I-beams from the ground to the roof on 16' centers, the outer skin and the center core were the vertical structural members connected with much lighter space frames on each floor.


----------



## Toro (Mar 22, 2009)

sitarro said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > sitarro said:
> ...



I think it means she's being sarcastic...


----------



## sitarro (Mar 22, 2009)

It would appear that I am being confused with those that believe that September 11th was planned by the government, I'm not. I was merely pointing out the fact that something as large as a 767 hitting a building like the World Trade Center at 500 miles an hour would cause extreme damage and would easily cause enough structural damage to bring those buildings down. What I was saying is that the design of the World Trade Center buildings were amazingly strong to withstand such a hit and not get knocked over immediately, with the inherent weakness of the space frame's connections to the vertical structures, it is easy to see why they collapsed from the hits. Once the vertical structure was compromised in such a horrific way, gravity and the sheer weight of the upper floors would account for them falling.

It was a mere observation from someone that works with these aircraft and see first hand the size and the amount of weight that gets put on board them.


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 22, 2009)

sitarro said:


> It would appear that I am being confused with those that believe that September 11th was planned by the government, I'm not. I was merely pointing out the fact that something as large as a 767 hitting a building like the World Trade Center at 500 miles an hour would cause extreme damage and would easily cause enough structural damage to bring those buildings down. What I was saying is that the design of the World Trade Center buildings were amazingly strong to withstand such a hit and not get knocked over immediately, with the inherent weakness of the space frame's connections to the vertical structures, it is easy to see why they collapsed from the hits. Once the vertical structure was compromised in such a horrific way, gravity and the sheer weight of the upper floors would account for them falling.


could be
KK isnt a troofer moron
LOL


----------



## eots (Mar 22, 2009)

sitarro said:


> It would appear that I am being confused with those that believe that September 11th was planned by the government, I'm not. I was merely pointing out the fact that something as large as a 767 hitting a building like the World Trade Center at 500 miles an hour would cause extreme damage and would easily cause enough structural damage to bring those buildings down. What I was saying is that the design of the World Trade Center buildings were amazingly strong to withstand such a hit and not get knocked over immediately, with the inherent weakness of the space frame's connections to the vertical structures, it is easy to see why they collapsed from the hits. Once the vertical structure was compromised in such a horrific way, gravity and the sheer weight of the upper floors would account for them falling.
> 
> It was a mere observation from someone that works with these aircraft and see first hand the size and the amount of weight that gets put on board them.



*well it is a very ill informed opinion and does nothing to explain the free fall speed of the collapse  or the collapse of wtc 7 nor does it address all of the unanswered questions of the pentagon or prior knowledge*


*Lt. Col. Guy S. Razer, MS Aeronautical Science, U.S. Air Force (ret) &#8211; Retired U.S. Air Force command fighter pilot.  Former instructor; U.S. Air Force Fighter Weapons School and NATO&#8217;s Tactical Leadership Program*.  As an Air Force weapons effects expert was responsible for wartime tasking of most appropriate aircraft/munition for target destruction to include *steel and concrete superstructures.*  Former aeronautical structures flight test engineer with McDonnell Douglas, working on advanced DC-9 autopilot systems and DC-10 flight envelope expansion stress and flutter analysis.  Tactical aircraft flown: General Dynamics F-111 Aardvark fighter/bomber, McDonnell Douglas F-15E Strike Eagle, General Dynamics / Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon, McDonnell Douglas F-18 Hornet, Boeing B-1 Bomber, MiG-29 (Russian fighter), and Su-22 (Russian fighter/bomber).  3,000+ fighter hours.  Combat time over Iraq.  20-year Air Force career. 
Statement to this website 3/25/07: "After 4+ years of research since retirement in 2002, I am 100% convinced that the attacks of September 11, 2001 were planned, organized, and committed by treasonous perpetrators that have infiltrated the highest levels of our government.  It is now time to take our country back. 

The "collapse" of WTC Building 7 shows beyond any doubt that the demolitions were pre-planned.  There is simply no way to demolish a 47-story building (on fire) over a coffee break.  It is also impossible to report the building&#8217;s collapse before it happened, as BBC News did, unless it was pre-planned.  Further damning evidence is Larry Silverstein's video taped confession in which he states "they made that decision to pull [WTC 7] and we watched the building collapse." [Editor's note: WTC Building 7 was 610 feet tall, 47 stories.  It would have been the tallest building in 33 states.  Although it was not hit by an airplane, it completely collapsed into a pile of rubble in less than 7 seconds at 5:20 p.m. on 9/11, seven hours after the collapses of the Twin Towers.  However, no mention of its collapse appears in the 9/11 Commission's "full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks."  Watch the collapse video here.  And six years after 9/11, the Federal government has yet to publish its promised final report that explains the cause of its collapse.] 

We cannot let the pursuit of justice fail.  Those of us in the military took an oath to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic".  Just because we have retired does not make that oath invalid, so it is not just our responsibility, it is our duty to expose the real perpetrators of 9/11 and bring them to justice, no matter how hard it is, how long it takes, or how much we have to suffer to do it. 

We owe it to those who have gone before us who executed that same oath, and who are doing the same thing in Iraq and Afghanistan right now.  Those of us who joined the military and faithfully executed orders that were given us had to trust our leaders.  The violation and abuse of that trust is not only heinous, but ultimately the most accurate definition of treason!" 


Member: Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice   Association Statement: "Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice is a non-partisan organization consisting of independent researchers and activists engaged in uncovering the true nature of the September 11, 2001 attacks." 


Member: Pilots for 9/11 Truth  Association Statement: "Pilots for 9/11 Truth is an organization of aviation professionals and pilots throughout the globe that have gathered together for one purpose. We are committed to seeking the truth surrounding the events of the 11th of September 2001. Our main focus concentrates on the four flights, maneuvers performed and the reported pilots. We do not offer theory or point blame. However, we are focused on determining the truth of that fateful day since the United States Government doesn't seem to be very forthcoming with answers." 


*Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11, signed by more than 600 Architects and Engineers:* 

*"On Behalf of the People of the United States of America, the undersigned Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and affiliates  hereby petition for, and demand, a truly independent investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01 - specifically the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7.  We believe that there is sufficient doubt about the official story and therefore that the 9/11 investigation must be re-opened and must include a full inquiry into the possible use of explosives that may have been the actual cause behind the destruction of the World Trade Center Towers and WTC Building 7."* Sign the Petition 


Website: Google


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 22, 2009)

eots said:


> sitarro said:
> 
> 
> > It would appear that I am being confused with those that believe that September 11th was planned by the government, I'm not. I was merely pointing out the fact that something as large as a 767 hitting a building like the World Trade Center at 500 miles an hour would cause extreme damage and would easily cause enough structural damage to bring those buildings down. What I was saying is that the design of the World Trade Center buildings were amazingly strong to withstand such a hit and not get knocked over immediately, with the inherent weakness of the space frame's connections to the vertical structures, it is easy to see why they collapsed from the hits. Once the vertical structure was compromised in such a horrific way, gravity and the sheer weight of the upper floors would account for them falling.
> ...


this guy you are C&Ping clearly doesnt know the facts
WTC7 didnt colapse over a "coffee break"
it was over SEVERAL HOURS


----------



## Toro (Mar 22, 2009)

Popular Mechanics is right.

You all know that...


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 22, 2009)

Toro said:


> Popular Mechanics is right.
> 
> You all know that...


did you watch eots video of the loose change guys vs PM?


----------



## elvis (Mar 22, 2009)

It's basically a few college amateur film makers going up against structural engineers. Is that correct?


----------



## Toro (Mar 22, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > Popular Mechanics is right.
> ...



Yes, I did see the Loose Change video.  Here it is.

[youtube]saHs6J0OXVI[/youtube]


----------



## Toro (Mar 22, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> It's basically a few college amateur film makers going up against structural engineers. Is that correct?



Unemployed college amateur film makers living in a cabin in the woods going up against structural engineers. That is correct.


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 22, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > YouTube - 9/11 Debate: Loose Change vs. Popular Mechanics pt. 4
> ...


this one
its funny as hell
he posted it as if the loose change guys won the debate
LOL


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 22, 2009)

Toro said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Toro said:
> ...


seen that before


----------



## eots (Mar 22, 2009)

Toro said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > It's basically a few college amateur film makers going up against structural engineers. Is that correct?
> ...



*David L. Griscom, PhD  Research physicist, retired in 2001 from Naval Research Laboratory (NRL) in Washington, DC, after 33 years service.  Fellow of the American Physical Society*.  Fulbright-García Robles Fellow at Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México in Mexico City (1997).  Visiting professorships of research at the Universities of Paris and Saint-Etienne, France, and Tokyo Institute of Technology (2000 - 2003).  Adjunct Professor of Materials Science and Engineering, University of Arizona (2004 - 2005).  Winner of the 1993 N. F. Mott Award sponsored by the Journal of Non-Crystalline Solids, 

the 1995 Otto Schott Award offered by the Carl-Zeiss-Stiftung (Germany), a 1996 Outstanding Graduate School Alumnus Award at Brown University, and the 1997 Sigma Xi Pure Science Award at NRL. Principal author of 109 of his 185 published works, a body of work which is highly cited by his peers.  Officially credited with largest number of papers (5) by any author on list of 100 most cited articles authored at NRL between 1973 and 1988. 
Personal blog 1/5/07: "David Ray Griffin has web-published a splendid, highly footnoted account of The Destruction of the World Trade Center: Why the Official Account Cannot Be True:  This scholarly work, rich in eyewitness accounts, includes 11 separate pieces of evidence that the World Trade Center towers 1, 2 [each 1300+ feet tall, 110 stories], and 7 were brought down by explosives.  [Editor's note: WTC Building 7 was 610 feet tall, 47 stories.  It would have been the tallest building in 33 states.  Although it was not hit by an airplane, it completely collapsed into a pile of rubble in less than 7 seconds at 5:20 p.m. on 9/11, seven hours after the collapses of the Twin Towers.  However, no mention of its collapse appears in the 9/11 Commission's "full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks."  Watch the collapse video here.  And six years after 9/11, the Federal government has yet to publish its promised final report that explains the cause of its collapse.]

... I implore my fellow physicists and engineers who may have the time, expertise, and (ideally) supercomputer access to get to work on the physics of the World Trade Center collapses and publish their findings in refereed journals like, say, the Journal of Applied Physics. 

The issue of knowing who was really behind the 9/11 attacks is of paramount importance to the future of our country, because the "official" assumption that it was the work of 19 Arab amateurs (1) does not match the available facts and (2) has led directly to the deplorable Patriot Act, the illegal Iraq war, NSA spying on ordinary Americans, repudiation of the Geneva Conventions, and the repeal of habeas corpus (a fundamental point of law that has been with us since the signing of the Magna Carta in 1215). 

Surely these Orwellian consequences of public ignorance constitute more than sufficient motivation for any patriotic American physicist or engineer to join the search for 9/11 Truth!" http://impactglassman 


Member: Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice   Association Statement: "Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice is a non-partisan organization consisting of independent researchers and activists engaged in uncovering the true nature of the September 11, 2001 attacks." 


Bio: David L Griscom PhD Physicist bio 







Dwain Deets, MS Eng 

*Dwain Deets, MS Physics, MS Eng  Former Director, Aerospace Projects, NASA Dryden Flight Research Center.  Before this appointment, he served as Director, Research Engineering Division at Dryden.  Recipient of the NASA Exceptional Service Award and the Presidential Meritorious Rank Award in the Senior Executive Service (1988). * Selected presenter of the Wright Brothers Lectureship in Aeronautics, a distinguished speaking engagement sponsored by the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA) (1986).  Included in "Who's Who in Science and Engineering" 1993 - 2000.  Former Chairman of the Aerospace Control and Guidance Systems Committee of the Society of Automotive Engineers.  Former Member, AIAA Committee on Society and Aerospace Technology.  37 year NASA career. 
Statement in support of Architects and Engineers petition:

*"The many visual images (massive structural members being hurled horizontally, huge pyroclastic clouds, etc.) leave no doubt in my mind explosives were involved [in the destruction of the World Trade Center*]."  AE911Truth 


Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11, signed by more than 600 Architects and Engineers: 

"On Behalf of the People of the United States of America, the undersigned Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and affiliates  hereby petition for, and demand, a truly independent investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01 - specifically the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7.  We believe that there is sufficient doubt about the official story and therefore that the 9/11 investigation must be re-opened and must include a full inquiry into the possible use of explosives that may have been the actual cause behind the destruction of the World Trade Center Towers and WTC Building 7." Sign the Petition 


Editor's note: WTC Building 7 was 610 feet tall, 47 stories.  It would have been the tallest building in 33 states.  Although it was not hit by an airplane, it completely collapsed into a pile of rubble in less than 7 seconds at 5:20 p.m. on 9/11, seven hours after the collapses of the Twin Towers.  However, no mention of its collapse appears in the 9/11 Commission's "full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks."  Watch the collapse video here.  And six years after 9/11, the Federal government has yet to publish its promised final report that explains the cause of its collapse. 


Bio: NASA - Dryden Flight Research Center 




*Larry L. Erickson, MS, PhD*


*Larry L. Erickson, BS Aeronautical Eng, MS Aeronautical Eng, PhD Eng Mechanics  Retired NASA Aerospace Engineer and Research Scientist.  Conducted research in the fields of structural dynamics, *aerodynamics, aeroelasticity and flutter.  Recipient of NASA's Aerodynamics Division Researcher-of-the-Year Award.  33-year NASA career.  Member, American Institute of Aeronautics & Astronautics.  Instructor, Physics and Aerospace Engineering, California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo 1998 - present.  Author and co-author of several scientific papers on aerodynamic analysis.  Contributing author to Applied Computational Aerodynamics (1990). 
Statement in support of Architects and Engineers petition:

"*Serious technical investigations by experts seem to be lacking from the official explanations."* AE911Truth


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 22, 2009)

and there it is for the 3,000th time


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 23, 2009)

Toro said:


> Popular Mechanics is right.
> 
> You all know that...



this coming from someone who refuses to look at any of those 47 canada wants the truth videos.so far you have proved that you talk nothing but shit.you said you had 3000 plus videos to post.I challenged you to post them,you have YET to do so.what other fairy tales for the day you have to tell us,that elvis presley is alive.Im sure your buddy here elvis wont argue with you on that one.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 23, 2009)

eots said:


> sitarro said:
> 
> 
> > It would appear that I am being confused with those that believe that September 11th was planned by the government, I'm not. I was merely pointing out the fact that something as large as a 767 hitting a building like the World Trade Center at 500 miles an hour would cause extreme damage and would easily cause enough structural damage to bring those buildings down. What I was saying is that the design of the World Trade Center buildings were amazingly strong to withstand such a hit and not get knocked over immediately, with the inherent weakness of the space frame's connections to the vertical structures, it is easy to see why they collapsed from the hits. Once the vertical structure was compromised in such a horrific way, gravity and the sheer weight of the upper floors would account for them falling.
> ...


----------



## elvis (Mar 23, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > Popular Mechanics is right.
> ...



Elvis is dead, you fucknut.  Take note of my entire screenname.  He is my second favorite singer to Lennon, nothing more.  Still, the idea that the towers collapsed from controlled demolitions is about as plausible as Elvis shooting Kennedy.  After all, he WAS alive in 1963 and you can't PROVE he didn't kill him.


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 23, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > Toro said:
> ...


i'm pretty certain Elvis was in Holywood at the time


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 23, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > Toro said:
> ...



yeah but many loonies like you out there love him so much and think he is still alive.read my second post on this thread and it proves you look like an idiot saying the fires and plane caused the towers to collapse.are you trying to say that Elvis killed kennedy now? is that your latest fairy tale of the day besides your normal fairy tale that the planes caused the towers to collapse ?


----------



## eots (Mar 23, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> and there it is for the 3,000th time



the facts don't change...the false accusation that the questions of 911 are that of unemployed college kids vs engineers was made ...clearly this view is shared by many people of of the highest levels of education experience and service..so once again I will ;prove that 

*Col. George Nelson, MBA, U.S. Air Force (ret)  Former U.S. Air Force aircraft accident investigator and airplane parts authority.  Graduate, U.S. Air Force War College.  34-year Air Force career. *

Licensed commercial pilot.  Licensed airframe and powerplant mechanic. 
Essay: "In all my years of direct and indirect participation, I never witnessed nor even heard of an aircraft loss, where the wreckage was accessible, that prevented investigators from finding enough hard evidence to positively identify the make, model, and specific registration number of the aircraft -- and in most cases the precise cause of the accident. ... 

The government alleges that four wide-body airliners crashed on the morning of September 11 2001, resulting in the deaths of more than 3,000 human beings, yet not one piece of hard aircraft evidence has been produced in an attempt to positively identify any of the four aircraft. On the contrary, it seems only that all potential evidence was deliberately kept hidden from public view.  

*With all the evidence readily available at the Pentagon crash site, any unbiased rational investigator could only conclude that a Boeing 757 did not fly into the Pentagon as alleged. Similarly, with all the evidence available at the Pennsylvania crash site, it was most doubtful that a passenger airliner caused the obvious hole in the ground and certainly not the Boeing 757 as alleged.  *

As painful and heartbreaking as was the loss of innocent lives and the lingering health problems of thousands more, a most troublesome and nightmarish probability remains that so many Americans appear to be involved in the most heinous conspiracy in our country's history."   Physics911, by Scientific Panel Investigating Nine-Eleven, 9/11/2001 




*Capt. Daniel Davis, U.S. Army  Former U.S. Army Air Defense Officer and NORAD Tac Director.  Decorated with the Bronze Star and the Soldiers Medal for bravery under fire and the Purple Heart for injuries sustained in Viet Nam*.  Also served in the Army Air Defense Command as Nike Missile Battery Control Officer for the Chicago-Milwaukee Defense Area.  Founder and former CEO of Turbine Technology Services Corp., a turbine (jet engine) services and maintenance company (15 years).  Former Senior Manager at General Electric Turbine (jet) Engine Division (15 years).  Private pilot.

Statement to this website 3/23/07: "As a former General Electric Turbine engineering specialist and manager and then CEO of a turbine engineering company, I can guarantee that none of the high tech, high temperature alloy engines on any of the four planes that crashed on 9/11 would be completely destroyed, burned, shattered or melted in any crash or fire.  Wrecked, yes, but not destroyed.  Where are all of those engines, particularly at the Pentagon?  If jet powered aircraft crashed on 9/11, those engines, plus wings and tail assembly, would be there. 

Additionally, in my experience as an officer in NORAD as a Tactical Director for the Chicago-Milwaukee Air Defense and as a current private pilot, there is no way that an aircraft on instrument flight plans (all commercial flights are IFR) would not be intercepted when they deviate from their flight plan, turn off their transponders, or stop communication with Air Traffic Control.  No way!  With very bad luck, perhaps one could slip by, but no there's no way all four of them could! 

Finally, going over the hill and highway and crashing into the Pentagon right at the wall/ground interface is nearly impossible for even a small slow single engine airplane and no way for a 757. Maybe the best pilot in the world could accomplish that but not these unskilled "terrorists". 

*Attempts to obscure facts by calling them a "Conspiracy Theory" does not change the truth.  It seems, "Something is rotten in the State." *


*Dwain Deets, MS Physics, MS Eng  Former Director, Aerospace Projects, NASA Dryden Flight Research Center.  Before this appointment, he served as Director, Research Engineering Division at Dryden.  Recipient of the NASA Exceptional Service Award and the Presidential Meritorious Rank Award in the Senior Executive Service* (1988).  Selected presenter of the Wright Brothers Lectureship in Aeronautics, a distinguished speaking engagement sponsored by the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA) (1986).  Included in "Who's Who in Science and Engineering" 1993 - 2000.  Former Chairman of the Aerospace Control and Guidance Systems Committee of the Society of Automotive Engineers.  Former Member, AIAA Committee on Society and Aerospace Technology.  37 year NASA career. 
Statement in support of Architects and Engineers petition:


*"The many visual images (massive structural members being hurled horizontally, huge pyroclastic clouds, etc.) leave no doubt in my mind explosives were involved [in the destruction of the World Trade Center*]."  AE911Truth 


Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11, signed by more than 600 Architects and Engineers: 

"On Behalf of the People of the United States of America, the undersigned Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and affiliates  hereby petition for, and demand, a truly independent investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01 - specifically the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7.  We believe that there is sufficient doubt about the official story and therefore that the 9/11 investigation must be re-opened and must include a full inquiry into the possible use of explosives that may have been the actual cause behind the destruction of the World Trade Center Towers and WTC Building 7." Sign the Petition 

Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report


----------



## Terral (Mar 23, 2009)

Hi Dive:



DiveCon said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



What made you believe the Loose Change Brats (Dylan Avery and company) won any real debate? Both Jim Meigs 'and' the Loose Change retards are assets of the DoD playing their silly games, which is the reason that both sides give you a thousand rabbit holes to explore 'and' nobody is ever brought to justice for the 911 Inside-job attacks. Do a search of *"Dylan Avery"* and *"Russell Pickering"* (Google) and take a look around. Russell is the 'handler' who helped these 'kids' get started in the beginning like *"Michael Anderson"* (PilotsForTruth Aldo = CIT) works with the CIT retards (Craig, Aldo, Dominick) the very same way. I gained *'restricted' status* writing on the 911Oz Board in about 10 posts. Guess why? :0) This is my Intro thread and look at the first retard to reply. *Lin Kuei* is a mod over at the LooseChange Board and he has this to say (my highlights):

Link



> *Sigh* Still at it Terral? With* 'interpretations' like the one above*, it's *no wonder you got banned* at the Loose Change Forum. I help run the Loose Change Board, and have done since April 2007... does that mean I too am a disinformation operative?


Note that having certain *'interpretations' of the evidence *is 'grounds' in his book for being banned from the Board. :0) In reality they gave me a week suspension (link = "see you in a week") and just decided to leave the sock in my mouth like *Killtown* at 911Movement and *Painter* (Michael Anderson above) at PilotsForTruth and *Laura* at the Cassiopaea Board and *ChillZero *at the JREF Board (Gravy = Mark Roberts is their DoD Op), so on and so forth. These people all HATE (with a passion) my *9:31/9:32 AM First Explosion* (zero replies here) at the Pentagon Explanation, because that wrecks the Official Cover Story these goofballs work everyday to protect and endorse and support along with a dozen other theories. Here is Craig's *"No Missile At The Pentagon" OP* (link). The DoD is afraid for anyone to wake up and realize the *Navy Operations Center* was deliberately attacked by the DoD itself, so these guys go to work to convince everyone that ANYTHING hit the Pentagon but the DoD missle. If you want to see a funny sight, Dominick challenges Aldo to debate me by pasting my work on Aldo's thread and the retard refused (here). Dominick pasted my work in Post #2 and Aldo and Craig do everything but debate 'the' 911Truth, because they preaching 'something else.'  

The point is that I know these guys very well and any debate you see between Dylan Avery and Jim Meigs represents *DoD assets* working boths sides for a bunch of DUPES. :0) I explain some of what goes on over at the *ToughTalk Board* here if anybody is interested.

GL,

Terral


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 23, 2009)

ah, so now loose change is part of a diversionary tactic by the DoD


man, you cant make this comedy up
LOL


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 23, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > and there it is for the 3,000th time
> ...


 you are right, facts dont change
but everything you have posted has already been debunked ad naseum
it is insanity to think repeating the same lies over and over will somehow have a different effect the 100th time you posted it than it had the very first time


----------



## eots (Mar 23, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



debunked by who ?..a cheap ass  privately owned magazine ..the 911 commission ..????


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 23, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


OMG, debunked by THOUSANDS
and PM is not a "cheap ass magazine"

and all magazines are privately owned
would you rather they be government owned?


----------



## Terral (Mar 23, 2009)

Hi Dive:



DiveCon said:


> ah, so now loose change is part of a diversionary tactic by the DoD
> 
> 
> man, you cant make this comedy up
> LOL



I am telling you guys *'the' 911truth in every post*, whether you want to believe it or not. What you see above is the extremely short version . . . 



DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



No. Right here is where Eots has you pinned down begging for mercy! At the very MOST DiveBomb and his 911Deniers ever achieve in *ANY 911Truth Debate* is to *present 'your' opposing views using the 'evidence' *for one interpretation or another. I give *my side* 'and' *Dive gives his side* 'and' everyone else gets to decide. While I have not been around this place for very long, I know for A FACT that Dive refuses to support his version of the *Official Cover Story* using anything at all. I write *911Truth 'Presentations'* and Dive is using this Board as *his personal chat room*, while pretending that he is actually proving something; and he IS NOT proving anything at all except that he is in DENIAL of *the 911Truth*. The silly nonsense coming out of Dive might lead somebody astray, but that person is not even paying attention in the first place.  



DiveCon said:


> it is insanity to think repeating the same lies over and over will somehow have a different effect the 100th time you posted it than it had the very first time



Perhaps. But Dive coming to the *"Conspiracy Forum"* to try and convince everyone that *No Conspiracy Exists* is the same kind of insanity that you are talking about. The short of a long story is that those of you running diversion for the *Official Cover Story* will DEFINITELY join the inside-job bad guys in their fate and you can take *that 'effect'* to the bank . . . 

Gary Allen makes a great observation in his book *"None Dare Call It Conspiracy,"* saying,

Link



> "It must be remembered that *the first job of any conspiracy*, whether it be in politics, crime or within a business office, *is to convince everyone else that no conspiracy exists.*  The conspirators success will be determined largely by their ability to do this.  That the elite of the academic world and mass communications media *always pooh-pooh the existence of the Insiders* merely serves to *camouflage their operations.*  These *&#8220;artists&#8221;* hide the boy, the cart and the donkey."


My uncle gave me a copy of this book in the mid 1970's and my eyes have been open ever since. The problem with having your eyes wide open is the realization that you are surrounded by DUPES . . . 

GL,

Terral


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 23, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



exactly,they were debunked by evil corrupt men on the 9/11 commission and a magazine they hired to investigate it.thats really debunking something all right. funny how they always ignore the FACT that Max Clelland resigned because he was so disgusted with the investgation saying that Zelikow who oversaw much of it, skewed the facts and ignored witness testimony and made critical omissions.the Bush dupes of course will ignore that little fact.


----------



## sitarro (Mar 23, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



What was the purpose of doing this? Who benefits from creating this huge and extremely complex attack. If they were good enough to do all of this, why would they not crash the actual jets into the Pennsylvania field and the Pentagon? The two aircraft that crashed into the World Trade Center buildings were seen by everyone, why would they drop the ball with the Pentagon and flight 93? Why wouldn't they just say that there was a missile attack on the Pentagon and blame it on whomever they needed to blame it on for what ever purpose they had for doing all of this? If they have the power to pull off such a huge operation, why bother? They already have the power to get away with whatever they wanted to do so why bother?

On one hand, Bush was "the dumbest President ever" and yet he is smart enough and diabolical enough to pull this off....... really?


----------



## LOki (Mar 23, 2009)

It's just amazing how much effort a bunch of retarded douchebags will go through to demonstrate how planes were not responsible for the destruction of the WTC and the Pentagon, but rather that the government used demolition explosives and/or missiles and then cranked up it's scary propaganda machine to perpetrate this elaborate con, involving thousands of witnesses and experts, to convince us all into believing it was planes--as if our government was competent to engineer such a thing; as if our governement, if it were to do such a thing, had no means to simply get planes, fly them into the respective buildings and then say, . . . well, PLANES WERE FLOWN INTO THOSE BUILDINGS!


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 23, 2009)

LOki said:


> It's just amazing how much effort a bunch of retarded douchebags will go through to demonstrate how planes were not responsible for the destruction of the WTC and the Pentagon, but rather that the government used demolition explosives and/or missiles and then cranked up it's scary propaganda machine to perpetrate this elaborate con, involving thousands of witnesses and experts, to convince us all into believing it was planes--as if our government was competent to engineer such a thing; as if our governement, if it were to do such a thing, had no means to simply get planes, fly them into the respective buildings and then say, . . . well, PLANES WERE FLOWN INTO THOSE BUILDINGS!



the retarded douchbags are the Bush dupes  who go to such efforts to try and defend the fairy tale version that the planes and fires caused the towers to come down.if you actually bothered reading the posts of mine, Eots and terral you would see what an idiot you look like for making this statement.yes planes were flown into the buildings.NOBODY here on this thread is disputing that so why are you even bringing it up? the planes were flown into the towers and explosives were also set off to bring the towers down.they used planes to fly into the towers because if they confessed that explosives went off,people would know the government did that cause Al Queda could not have planted them.got news for you,our government has been doing things like this for YEARS to the people and have made a living for years on keeping secrets from the population of the world.after all,the CIA provoked a war in indonisia in the 40's and that was kept a secret till recently in 95 so enough of that crap nonsense that people in the government cant keep secrets.the reason 9/11 is so much discussed is because these are known facts around the world that it was an inside job.more and more by the thousands are waking up about that every year since 9/11.


----------



## Terral (Mar 23, 2009)

Hi Inside Job:

  A few points in your statement above can use some clarification: 



9/11 inside job said:


> Exactly, they were debunked by evil corrupt men on the 9/11 commission and a magazine they hired to investigate it. That&#8217;s really debunking something all right.   Funny how they always ignore the FACT that Max Clelland resigned because he was so disgusted with the investigation saying that Zelikow who oversaw much of it, *skewed the facts* and *ignored witness testimony* and *made critical omissions*. The Bush DUPES of course will ignore that little fact.


 
  The key point above regards critical omissions that some of you will simply refuse to believe:

911Commission Report:

Arlington County After-Action Report:

  For those of you who do not know: The ACAAR was put out by the Arlington County Fire Department (link) strictly pertaining to the Pentagon Case. Yes, I know those people very well too and have gone round and round and round with them about this very situation you are talking about above. Here are some of the high points:

  1. Both of these Government documents have been &#8216;keyword sanitized&#8217; to exclude the terms &#8216;explosions.&#8217;

  That&#8217;s right! Try to imagine about 1000 pages of Official &#8216;Sworn&#8217; Testimony from our Government about these related 9/11 attacks that &#8216;exclude&#8217; the term &#8216;explosions&#8217;!!!! :0) 

  2. Both of these documents include the term &#8216;explosion&#8217; (singular) exactly six (6) times. 

  That&#8217;s right again! The 911Commission Report contains the term &#8216;explosion&#8217; just six times for ALL of these related 9/11 cases. 

  3. The ACAAR includes the times of 9:31 AM and 9:32 AM exactly &#8216;zero&#8217; (0) times. 

  I cover this point in my letter to the Fire Department included below, but this just happens to be the very time that the Pentagon Clocks stopped (my 9:31 thread = first pic) and the same time that the FAA Timeline says the aircraft struck the Pentagon (link). The following is a letter I sent to Jacquelyn Brown from the Arlington County Fire Department who wanted some examples of errors. They eventually refused to continue communications . . . :0)  

  GL,

  Terral

  --------------------------------
  [FONT=&quot]Hi Jacquelyn Brown: Thu 11/08/07 2:50 PM[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Thank you for writing.[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]


> Ms. Brown >>  Good morning, Mr. Croft.  We received your email and would appreciate your sending us examples of the errors so that we may correct them.  Are these grammatical errors or factual errors?


[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Factual errors.  I have been investigating this Pentagon case for some time now and have found many errors in the ACAAR where your data contradicts information in other reports, timelines and time stamped News Video footage. All ACAAR page number references are from the PDF counter. Some examples are:[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]
http://www.arlingtonva.us/Departments/Fire/edu/about/docs/after_report.pdf [/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]
1. ACAAR Page 200 Timeline says, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]9:38 a.m.* American Airlines Flight #77, carrying 58 passengers and a crew of 6, crashes into the Pentagon.*[/FONT]
   [FONT=&quot]
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB165/faa5.pdf [/FONT]
   [FONT=&quot]
Page 2 of the FAA Timeline says, *&#8220;0932 ATC AEA reports aircraft crashes into west side of Pentagon.&#8221;*[/FONT]
   [FONT=&quot]
Conclusion: The ACAAR Timeline is *off by six minutes*. Your report records this error, because you fail to realize &#8216;on station&#8217; Fort Meyer Foam 161 firemen Alan Wallace and Mark Skipper ( http://web.telia.com/~u43109230/flight77/texts/Wallace.txt ) were injured *during the 9:31:39 AM First Explosion* when the Quartermaster-calibrated Navy Clock stopped at *exactly 9:31:39 AM* with the Army Heliport Clock stopping within the same minute.[/FONT]
   [FONT=&quot]




[/FONT]
   [FONT=&quot]
All of the *pre-9:32 AM &#8220;First Explosion&#8221;* evidence can be seen in Post #2 here: http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=16133 [/FONT]
   [FONT=&quot]
Both firemen hid under their vehicles for *the 4 minutes and 48 seconds* until the &#8216;second attack&#8217; taking place at *exactly *9:36:27 AM to stop the second series of Pentagon Clocks.[/FONT]
   [FONT=&quot]





   [FONT=&quot]
The West Wedge E-Ring Wall had a single small entry hole *between *9:31:39 AM* and *9:36:27 AM, when Terry Cohen rushed to the scene from just 100 feet away to report *&#8220;Just Smoke&#8221;* ( http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=5751351276150910098 ). Lloyd England the taxi driver standing in the middle of Washington Avenue between 9:30 AM and 9:36 AM reported to Barbara Honegger to seeing *only &#8220;inside-the-building fires&#8221;* ( http://blog.lege.net/content/Seven_Hours_in_September.pdf ), until the *&#8220;Big Boom&#8221;* ( http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=78448 ) at *9:36:27 AM* corresponding to *Terry Cohen&#8217;s &#8220;Terrible Explosion&#8221;* taking place &#8216;after&#8217; the original 9:31:39 AM attack. All of the evidence says your 9:38 AM Flight 77 crash time is much too late to coincide with either of these explosions.  [/FONT]
   [FONT=&quot]
2. The ACAAR says, 9:55 a.m.* Captain Gibbs evacuates impact area.*[/FONT]
   [FONT=&quot]
This is simply a misstatement of the facts, because we have Live News footage showing firemen in the impact area fighting the fire beyond the 9:55 am time.[/FONT]
   [FONT=&quot]
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6339188409899327677 [/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]
The News 4 footage shows the E-Ring roof standing at 10:22 AM and firemen fighting the fire, *between times* &#8216;you say&#8217; an evacuation order was underway. Your Report language is very clear that the area was evacuated four times:[/FONT]
   [FONT=&quot]
ACAAR Page 38 >>  "During the first 24 hours, it was necessary to *evacuate the Pentagon on four separate occasions* because of the risk of structural collapse or the threat of additional terrorist attacks. It is difficult to measure the full impact of repeated building evacuations, but it was clearly negative and significant. *Each time an evacuation was ordered, firefighters interrupted operations, abandoned equipment, shut off hoses, and ran several hundred yards to protected areas.* From there, they had to watch as flames reclaimed the parts of the Pentagon they had just evacuated."[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Since the &#8216;all clear&#8217; was given at 10:38 AM (Page 201), then quite obviously you have many contradictions in this Report.[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]
3. The ACAAR says, 9:57 a.m.* Structural collapse in impact area*[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]
This is one of the most blatant fabrications in the entire Report that places the E-Ring Roof collapse &#8216;before&#8217; 10:00 a.m. in direct contradiction to all the TV News &#8216;time stamped&#8217; evidence. You just saw a straight unbroken E-Ring roof line in the News 4 footage above at 10:22 am, even though they included a *second camera* cut of the E-Ring wall collapsed from a later time. This is my *Pentagon Timeline Thread* ( http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=16510 ) where the actual event times are broken down into seconds in many cases. The evidence for a 10:15 AM E-Ring wall collapse is here:[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]
Time Stamped 10:15 Collapse >>  http://www.archive.org/details/cbs200109110954-1036 [/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]
Personally I believe the E-Ring roof collapsed after 10:38 AM, because your firemen are busy fighting the fire &#8216;during&#8217; the collapse shown here:[/FONT]
   [FONT=&quot]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC_j1OsSVmo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC_j1OsSVmo[/ame]

Stop the counter at *00:26/00:37* and you will see Arlington County firemen manning the hose behind the *&#8220;Live9&#8221; News logo* and a firemen standing directly in the center of the screen walking to the left. You cannot have a &#8216;roof collapse time&#8217; during the same time that the &#8216;evacuation order&#8217; is given, because of your *&#8220;*[/FONT]*[FONT=&quot]Each time an evacuation was ordered, firefighters interrupted operations . . .&#8221;[/FONT]*[FONT=&quot] clause. Remember the &#8216;evacuation&#8217; orders are given at 9:55 am for the impact area and we are looking at the impact area. Even if you want to water down the evacuation order and back that up to *10:15 AM *with Chief Schwartz&#8217;s order, the E-Ring roof is collapsing &#8216;after&#8217; *10:22 AM* from the *News 4 time stamped video*, or the *10:15 AM* time from the *&#8220;9 Breaking News&#8221;* video. Since you definitely have firemen fighting the E-Ring fire at the time of the E-Ring roof collapse, then you need to decide if that was *&#8216;after&#8217; the 10:38 AM &#8220;all clear&#8221;* was given, OR if no evacuation order was given at the specified times. Personally I see no way for the ACAAR Board to revise your sworn statements apart from conducting a new investigation into the log entries of all Arlington County and attached fire trucks.  [/FONT]
   [FONT=&quot]
4. We have reports of *&#8216;many&#8217; explosions* taking place between 9:31:39 AM* and *10:15:16 AM from Official Timelines like this ( 9/11 Timeline of Chaos ) to actual Live time stamped News footage like this:[/FONT]

 [FONT=&quot][ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WefPzgxvfS4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WefPzgxvfS4[/ame][/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]
Listen to this witness telling his story about many *explosions* (plural with an &#8220;s&#8221, as they are going off in the background (4 of them) during this three minute interview between 10:12 AM* and *10:15 AM. However, the ACAAR uses the term *&#8220;explosion&#8221;* (singular) only six times with *&#8216;all&#8217;* of them references to your *errant 9:38 AM Explosion* that &#8216;never&#8217; even took place. I have studied all the available evidence in a vain attempt to find just one time stamped piece of 9:38 AM explosion evidence and &#8216;none&#8217; exists anywhere. Your entire 215 Page Report *never uses the term &#8220;explosions&#8221; even one time *telling this investigator that your ACAAR has been keyword sanitized to exclude evidence vital to any serious Pentagon investigation. You have no testimony from the two key trucks responsible for fighting this fire from the impact area. NONE. There is not one mention of *Fort Meyer Rescue Engine 161* or *Foam Unit 331* plainly visible in all these News videos and in the *Public Action Reports *( http://www.public-action.com/911/rescue/nfpa.html ) and supporting articles ( http://www.public-action.com/911/rescue/nfpa-article/ ). The testimony from these *Engine 161 and Foam 331 firemen* is vital to telling the story of what really happened at the Pentagon on 9/11 and that testimony has been purposely omitted to hide the evidence of &#8216;all&#8217; these explosions deliberately set off to bring the E-Ring roof down *as near 9:31:39 AM as humanly possible.*  Your *&#8216;cooked&#8217; 9:57 AM roof collapse Timeline entry* is a complete fabrication to give credibility to the *&#8220;Flight 77 Crashed Here&#8221; Cover Story*, when there is no evidence that any 100-Ton Jetliner crashed anywhere near the Pentagon.[/FONT]

 [FONT=&quot]



[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]



[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]



[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]
I can show you E-Ring wall pre-collapse pictures all day long that all say *&#8220;No 100-Ton Jetliner Crashed Here.&#8221;* A real 100-Jetliner has hundreds of time-change parts with serial numbers married into the aircraft registration numbers notifying maintenance personnel when those registered parts must be changed.* Retired Colonel George Nelson* is an expert in this field and gives his testimony here: [/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]
http://physics911.net/georgenelson [/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]
The FBI has failed to produce a single time-change part from &#8216;any&#8217; of the four 9/11 Jetliners including Flight 77. Until the ACAAR Board sees evidence that Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon, then your sworn testimony should reflect the evidence. The *FBI-produced Flight Data Recorder evidence* given to the *National Transportation Safety Board* . . . [/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]
http://web.archive.org/web/20061007032310/http://www.ntsb.gov/info/Flight_+Path_+Study_AA77.pdf [/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]
. . . places their phantom Flight 77 *&#8216;beyond&#8217; Pentagon airspace at the Official 9:32 AM FAA &#8216;aircraft crash&#8217; time*, which means their 100-Ton Jetliner had nothing to do with that First Explosion. *Jim Ritter&#8217;s testimony is completely fabricated* and cannot be supported by any evidence at all. NONE. If you read through his commentary, you will see the last time given to their bogey is 9:15:15 AM*.* His conclusion that Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon at 9:37:45 AM* going 530 miles per hour* is disproved by looking at one piece of evidence. First of all, this is the *Official NTSB &#8220;Brief of Accident&#8221; Report Adopted *03/07/2006 for *Flight 77 Aircraft Registry Number N644AA*:[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=DCA01MA064&rpt=fi [/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]
Look in the left-hand column to see *&#8220;Destroyed&#8221;* notation that fails to even mention the Engine Make/Model, Number of Engines, or other very important information for any serious investigation.  You must realize that no 6-Ton Rolls-Royce Engines were ever found at the Pentagon and no sign of the 60 tons of high grade aluminum/titanium Jetliner frame, seats, landing gear, cargo, wing sections or the massive tail section. The government excuse is that the 100-Ton Jetliner vaporized into thin air from a hydrocarbon explosion, which is very much impossible. Please prepare yourself to look at one picture of a Flight 77 victim from the Official Government Photos. I apologize, but this is very important to establishing &#8216;the truth&#8217; of what really happened for your Report:[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/humanremains.html[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]
You can likely picture yourself seated just like this victim on a typical Jetliner flight, as I too have sat back in my seat with both arms resting in exactly this manner many times.  However, if the 6-ton engines are missing from vaporization, then please explain how this victim can have *no broken bones* and *not even a chipped tooth?* Look down at his pants leg to realize his lower body is barely even burned. The victim&#8217;s expression says he was definitely unconscious when his body was burned using a torch held in a stationary position on his upper torso. Move down to the second picture and the victim on the left where his light blue stripped shirt has been pulled from inside his pants.  You can see his wallet tucked inside his right-hand pants pocket, just like many men move their wallets up front when traveling for comfort and avoiding the risk of a pickpocket encounter. This victim&#8217;s body was exposed to some kind of heat source, but all of his bones appear in perfect alignment inconsistent with going through any Jetliner crash moving 530 miles per hour where the entire Jetliner is &#8216;Destroyed&#8217; to leave no evidence. Look in the background of these pictures to realize there is plenty of debris, but none of that is stored in any aircraft hanger part of any real investigation. The government recovered DNA from 184 of 188 victims, excluding their fantasy Bearded Jihadist Radicals, but they cannot produce even one time-change part proving Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon for establishing FBI jurisdictional authority over this case. [/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]
If I may offer my opinion to the ACAAR Board from my insight into this Pentagon investigation: The ACAAR Board needs to gather together all the log entries from all your Arlington County and attached fire truck crews and amend your statements to coincide with what really happened on 9/11 without regard the DoD/FBI/Bush Administration cronies doing everything to micromanage ACAAR content for their well-orchestrated Cover-Up operation. Your &#8220;First Explosion&#8221; aircraft crash Timeline entry should agree 100 percent with the FAA Official Timeline entry and NOT what the Feds are forcing you to enter in your Report. The ACAAR Board should petition the State of Virginia to open an investigation into the 9:32 AM aircraft crash that definitely has NOTHING to do with any 100-Ton Jetliner or Flight 77. This Pentagon fire is being characterized as a *&#8220;60-Hour Witness Assassination&#8221;* ( http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/01/278515.shtml ) by *Carol Valentine the President of Pubic Action Incorporated* casting many shadows on Arlington County Firefighter Actions during this period. Navy Intelligence is on the case, as the Navy Operations Center was the target of the *9:31:39 AM missile strike* ( http://911research.com/sept11/victims/docs/pentagon_victims.jpg ) and the ACAAR Board does not want to be caught flatfooted holding up this piece of *&#8220;Loyal Bushie&#8221; Disinformation* pointing the finger straight back at you as an accomplice. At this point you do not need me to run down your Page 200 ACAAR Timeline and point out the obvious contradictions to the evidence, but you need to begin again and establish the facts from your own internal reports that &#8216;do&#8217; verify every single word in this email to be 100 percent 911Truth.  [/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]
My vision of firemen is that of heroes running into burning buildings to save our fellow Americans and I would very much like to continue holding our public servants up in the very best light possible. While I feel the Arlington County Fire Department has not purposely worked to mislead anyone, I do believe the DoD and Bush Administration has twisted many arms to deliver us a watered down version of what really happened on 9/11. I am happy to appear before your Board and give a presentation of the facts in this case, if that will help you in anyway. Please write or call if I can be of any service. [/FONT]
   [FONT=&quot]
More Expert Testimony >>  [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKhBzAh_eeA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKhBzAh_eeA[/ame]  

God bless you, [/FONT]
 
 [FONT=&quot]Terral  
Personal Info omitted 
[/FONT][/FONT]


----------



## KittenKoder (Mar 23, 2009)

Okay ... one question of those conspiracy nuts ... I mean theorists ... who think it was all an inside job or some such claim.

Why?


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 23, 2009)

What was the purpose of doing this? Who benefits from creating this huge and extremely complex attack. If they were good enough to do all of this, why would they not crash the actual jets into the Pennsylvania field and the Pentagon? The two aircraft that crashed into the World Trade Center buildings were seen by everyone, why would they drop the ball with the Pentagon and flight 93? Why wouldn't they just say that there was a missile attack on the Pentagon and blame it on whomever they needed to blame it on for what ever purpose they had for doing all of this? If they have the power to pull off such a huge operation, why bother? They already have the power to get away with whatever they wanted to do so why bother?

On one hand, Bush was "the dumbest President ever" and yet he is smart enough and diabolical enough to pull this off....... really?[/QUOTE]

are you serious? Bush and cheney profitted in the millions from this dissaster.Thats been documented.War means big business for corporations and Cheney and Bush were sr board members of Haliburton, a defense contracter in the war in Iraq.you should be asking them that question.I dont claim to have all the answers.I just point out and show the evidence through videos that it was an inside job.

Yes the aircraft that crashed into the towers were seen by everyone,again nobody said that any aircraft didnt crash into those towers so I dont know why you bring that up.something you SHOULD know though is witnesses were quoted saying-"that was not a commercial airliner." theres live footage of that in a video I have posted here many times.also, if you look at the photos of the second jet that slammed into the towers,you can see that there is something attached to the bottom of it.Many commercial pilots have said that its a drone aircraft-a military one.a drone aircraft is a military jet that they can pilot by remote control for thousands of miles.they have that technology to do that today believe it or not.commercial pilots have said that they have never seen a commercial airliner that looked like that in their whole life.im not quite sure what you mean when you say why would they drop the ball with the pentagon and flight 93,could you rephrase that for me?

They could never say that it was a missile from another country that took out the pentagon cause that right there,would make the 9/11 apologists know for sure it was an inside job cause the pentagan is the most heavily armed defense system in the world designed to stop such an attack.the american people would never fall for that one.The thing that I cant help but laugh my ass off over the idiots that defend the official version no matter how ludicrous it is,is that the pentagan is the most heavy air defense system in the world where they have the most advanced technology that if an airliner like that,strays off course,they have their fighters trained to scramble their jets in be in the air within 5 minutes of the attacks and to have their fighters escort an airliner off course back to normal and if worse comes to worse if they dont respond,to shoot them down if it becomes neccessary.yet over an hour after they learned about the twin towers high jackings,NOTHING was done to be prepared for them to penetrate washington.you going to tell me that our people in the pentagan are so incompetent after all these years and that they have the most shitty and crappy techology in the world that they could not have stopped this? that explanation doesnt work,thats just what the american people want to believe. I already stated,Bush being the idiot he is,acicidently through the slip of his tongue,admitted that explosives were used to bring down the towers.

Eots has posted the video here before,but the Bush dupes ignore it and come up with the most moronic explanations saying his video proved nothing. I already addressed that issue before as well,just go back and read through my posts cause i dont want to repeat it again.
also,the 9/11 Bush dupes always put their tail between their legs and run off never watching these videos I post that have overwhelming evidence that explosives brought down the towers cause their so much in denial but these 47 videos have all the answers for you that your asking,you might want to wacth them and get educated.anybody with logic,common sense and in open mind,will see the evidence in these 47 videos is overwhelming that it was an inside job and explosives brought the towers down.of course like i said,the 9/11 Bush dupes turn tail and run never bother addressing what these videos talk about cause they know it proves it and they cant counter them.here they are.get educated.
Canada 9/11 Truth - Videos
anybody who watches THOSE videos and STILL defends the official version is either 
A-in denial and did not watch them like all the Bush dupes on this thread
or B-on drugs and their brain has been fried.


----------



## eots (Mar 23, 2009)

order from kaos..problem ..reaction..slolution...its as old as man


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 23, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Okay ... one question of those conspiracy nuts ... I mean theorists ... who think it was all an inside job or some such claim.
> 
> Why?



uh the conspiracy nuts are the conspiracy THEORISTS who accept the fairy tale of the 9/11 commission report and popular mechanics version, the conspiracy THEORY,  that muslims and Bin laden were behind the attacks. I just backed it up with my link I just posted that it was an inside job with those 47 videos you can watch,not to mention I backed it up with my second post on page six as well that explosives brought down the towers that you never bothered addressing either.If you bother to read Terrals posts and look at the links on HIS posts,you would ALSO see he backs it up that it was an inside job as well.


----------



## KittenKoder (Mar 23, 2009)

Um ... Jr nor Cheney profited from 9-11 ... 9-11 was in no way connected to Iraq and there was already a war going on in Afghanistan, started by someone else. If you want a real conspiracy look at Clinton ... seriously ... at least any theory based on what he did behind the curtain would hold water.


----------



## eots (Mar 23, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WoV2dHzH1E&feature=related]YouTube - PROBLEM - REACTION - SOLUTION[/ame]


----------



## LOki (Mar 23, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> LOki said:
> 
> 
> > It's just amazing how much effort a bunch of retarded douchebags will go through to demonstrate how planes were not responsible for the destruction of the WTC and the Pentagon, but rather that the government used demolition explosives and/or missiles and then cranked up it's scary propaganda machine to perpetrate this elaborate con, involving thousands of witnesses and experts, to convince us all into believing it was planes--as if our government was competent to engineer such a thing; as if our governement, if it were to do such a thing, had no means to simply get planes, fly them into the respective buildings and then say, . . . well, PLANES WERE FLOWN INTO THOSE BUILDINGS!
> ...


Really? THe planes and fire just COULD NOT have brought down those buildings . . . BY ANY MEANS WHAT-SO-EVER?



9/11 inside job said:


> if you actually bothered reading the posts of mine, Eots and terral you would see what an idiot you look like for making this statement.yes planes were flown into the buildings.NOBODY here on this thread is disputing that so why are you even bringing it up?


Well, you're about to explain it:





9/11 inside job said:


> the planes were flown into the towers and explosives were also set off to bring the towers down.they used planes to fly into the towers because if they confessed that explosives went off,people would know the government did that cause Al Queda could not have planted them.


News flash for you . . . the governement couldnt plant the explosives necessary, in the manner necessary to cause the kind of controlled demolition you retards all think you're looking at . . . WITHOUT SOMEONE FUCKING NOTICING IT for what it was!Jeffy: "Hey Dan!" 
Dan: "Hey Jeffy, what's up?"(Unbeknownst to Jeffy, Dan is a top level government agent capable of Jedi mind tricks he learned is a secret government trianing center located underneath Virginia)
Jeffy: "What's with all this semtex and primer cord laying around the office?"
Dan: "Ahem, [Jedi mind trix0r activated!] that's not semtex and primer cord laying around the office."
Jeffy: [in monotone drone]"That's not semtex and primer cord laying around the office."
Dan: "That's all play-dough and kite strings."
Jeffy: [in monotone drone]"That's all play-dough and kite strings."
Jeffy: "Hey! That plane is headed right at us!"
Dan: "That's not a plane Jeffy, that's a pretty butterfly."
Jeffy: [in monotone drone]". . . pretty butterfly."
Dan: "I'm headed uptown for a cup of coffee, you stay here and watch the pretty butterfly, and don't touch the shiny red button until quarter to nine."
Jeffy: [in monotone drone]". . . pretty butterfly . . . quarter to nine."​


9/11 inside job said:


> got news for you,our government has been doing things like this for YEARS to the people and have made a living for years on keeping secrets from the population of the world.


Yeah. Mind tricks . . . .  woooooooOOOOOooooo!

Look dude, I'm not disputing any notions that the US government is capable of, and complicit in dirty dealings . . . I'm not even disputing your assertion that the US government was complicit in the 9/11 tragedies.  I'm just saying that if I'm to accept such complictiy, it makes a bajillion time more sense than your controlled demolition conspiracies, that the government simply got some planes, flew them into the respective buildings and then said, . . . well, "PLANES WERE FLOWN INTO THOSE BUILDINGS!"



9/11 inside job said:


> after all,the CIA provoked a war in indonisia in the 40's and that was kept a secret till recently in 95 so enough of that crap nonsense that people in the government cant keep secrets.the reason 9/11 is so much discussed is because these are known facts around the world that it was an inside job.more and more by the thousands are waking up about that every year since 9/11.


Well, so much for the fucking awesome secret keeping powers of the government. Oh yeah, right . . . INDONESIA!


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 23, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Um ... Jr nor Cheney profited from 9-11 ... 9-11 was in no way connected to Iraq and there was already a war going on in Afghanistan, started by someone else. If you want a real conspiracy look at Clinton ... seriously ... at least any theory based on what he did behind the curtain would hold water.



Do your research. JR and CHENEY profitted from 9/11.Yes you are correct.there was already a war going on in afghanistan,thats  one reason why Bush jr is an evil man.He sent us to Iraq when they had nothing to do with it.He should be in prison just alone for that.that would have been like FDR invading mexico after the japs bombed pearl harbour.I have talked quite a few times before here in the past about the autrocities that Clinton committed as president only NOBODY here wants to discuss that issue.Guess 9/11 hits more home with them than anything clinton did. oh and Clinton is involved as much in 9/11 as Bush is.oh and 9/11 being an inside job has OVERWHELMING FACTS to back it up.AGAIN watch my videos Iposted from that link,dont be afraid to watch them like all these 9/11 Bush dupes here on this thread are.the theory that holds no water is that muslins and Bin Laden were behind 9/11 and that the planes caused the towers to fall down.


----------



## KittenKoder (Mar 23, 2009)

Wow .. you really do like making things up. Jr. never claimed that Iraq had anything to do with 9-11, seriously, do you enjoy making things up like that? There are no facts backing up the ridiculous conclusion ... there is one fact that that proves it's ridiculous ... no one wanted it to happen.


----------



## eots (Mar 23, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJiNtpIpD6k]YouTube - Cheney: I never linked Iraq with 9/11. Oh really?[/ame]


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 23, 2009)

]Really? THe planes and fire just COULD NOT have brought down those buildings . . . BY ANY MEANS WHAT-SO-EVER?
Well, you're about to explain it:News flash for you . . . the governement couldnt plant the explosives necessary, in the manner necessary to cause the kind of controlled demolition you retards all think you're looking at . . . WITHOUT SOMEONE FUCKING NOTICING IT for what it was!Jeffy: "Hey Dan!" 
Dan: "Hey Jeffy, what's up?"(Unbeknownst to Jeffy, Dan is a top level government agent capable of Jedi mind tricks he learned is a secret government trianing center located underneath Virginia)
Jeffy: "What's with all this semtex and primer cord laying around the office?"
Dan: "Ahem, [Jedi mind trix0r activated!] that's not semtex and primer cord laying around the office."
Jeffy: [in monotone drone]"That's not semtex and primer cord laying around the office."
Dan: "That's all play-dough and kite strings."
Jeffy: [in monotone drone]"That's all play-dough and kite strings."
Jeffy: "Hey! That plane is headed right at us!"
Dan: "That's not a plane Jeffy, that's a pretty butterfly."
Jeffy: [in monotone drone]". . . pretty butterfly."
Dan: "I'm headed uptown for a cup of coffee, you stay here and watch the pretty butterfly, and don't touch the shiny red button until quarter to nine."
Jeffy: [in monotone drone]". . . pretty butterfly . . . quarter to nine."​


9/11 inside job said:


> got news for you,our government has been doing things like this for YEARS to the people and have made a living for years on keeping secrets from the population of the world.


Yeah. Mind tricks . . . .  woooooooOOOOOooooo!

Look dude, I'm not disputing any notions that the US government is capable of, and complicit in dirty dealings . . . I'm not even disputing your assertion that the US government was complicit in the 9/11 tragedies.  I'm just saying that if I'm to accept such complictiy, it makes a bajillion time more sense than your controlled demolition conspiracies, that the government simply got some planes, flew them into the respective buildings and then said, . . . well, "PLANES WERE FLOWN INTO THOSE BUILDINGS!"



9/11 inside job said:


> after all,the CIA provoked a war in indonisia in the 40's and that was kept a secret till recently in 95 so enough of that crap nonsense that people in the government cant keep secrets.the reason 9/11 is so much discussed is because these are known facts around the world that it was an inside job.more and more by the thousands are waking up about that every year since 9/11.


Well, so much for the fucking awesome secret keeping powers of the government. Oh yeah, right . . . INDONESIA! [/QUOTE]

No they could not!!!! if you ever bothered to get off your lazy ass and do some research instead of worshipping the government and media as the truth you would see how you have been brainwashed by them.the towers were designed to withstand the impact of an airliner slamming into them and the lead engineer john skilling said they designed it and anticipated what would happen if fires caught on fire in the towers.he was quoted saying-there would be a great loss of life "because of the fires" but the structures themselves would remain standing.I already explained that COUNTLESS numbers of times on this thread,just cause you dont want to read them doesnt mean they didnt keep it secret. you  ignored that they kept that a secret for over 50 years.thats just evidence that they do things like 9/11 to their own people all the time and DO keep secrets for many DECADES.oh and look at my next post,it will explain HOW they wired the towers and kept anyone noticing.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 23, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Wow .. you really do like making things up. Jr. never claimed that Iraq had anything to do with 9-11, seriously, do you enjoy making things up like that? There are no facts backing up the ridiculous conclusion ... there is one fact that that proves it's ridiculous ... no one wanted it to happen.



Jr LIED about weapons of mass destruction being there.I havent made ANYTHING up here in my posts.we INVADED Iraq when there was no reason to be doing so.THATS a FACT that we invaded Iraq,its a FACT that Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11 and there were no WMD'S.


----------



## KittenKoder (Mar 23, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> No they could not!!!! if you ever bothered to get off your lazy ass and do some research instead of worshipping the government and media as the truth you would see how you have been brainwashed by them



If this was so true of someone, then explain why I know your conspiracy is phony. I hate media and don't trust the government.


----------



## KittenKoder (Mar 23, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > Wow .. you really do like making things up. Jr. never claimed that Iraq had anything to do with 9-11, seriously, do you enjoy making things up like that? There are no facts backing up the ridiculous conclusion ... there is one fact that that proves it's ridiculous ... no one wanted it to happen.
> ...



Hmm ... so? Jr. was wrong for being a dumbass ... your point, I already mentioned that part. But everyone, even Jr., stated that 9-11 and Iraq were not connected, since you have gotten so good at parroting it seems you can't even keep you parroted statements straight.


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 23, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > Wow .. you really do like making things up. Jr. never claimed that Iraq had anything to do with 9-11, seriously, do you enjoy making things up like that? There are no facts backing up the ridiculous conclusion ... there is one fact that that proves it's ridiculous ... no one wanted it to happen.
> ...


prove he lied


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 23, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > No they could not!!!! if you ever bothered to get off your lazy ass and do some research instead of worshipping the government and media as the truth you would see how you have been brainwashed by them
> ...



thats just it,you HAVENT proved that the conspiracy theory that muslins were behind it is nothing but phony.


----------



## KittenKoder (Mar 23, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



Never said that either. But, because of all you nuts no matter who is responsible the evidence was skewed. If you had been halfway intelligent instead of so quick to jump on a band-wagon maybe you could have gotten the real story, but you didn't, too busy pointing fingers at ghosts to search the real evidence. Making up evidence to support a conspiracy myth does that.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 23, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > KittenKoder said:
> ...



yet the bastard isnt behind bars for invading Iraq and murdering Iraq civilians.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 23, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > KittenKoder said:
> ...



I havent made up evidence.i keep asking you to look at my second post on page six and address it and watch those 47 videos and you wont.you mean the conspiracy myth that Bin Laden was behind it?


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 23, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...


gee, show yourself to be a moron again, more people need to see what total fucking morons troofers are


----------



## Toro (Mar 23, 2009)

Terral said:


> Hi Dive:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Man, oh man.  This is the best one on USMB yet!  Loose Change creators are part of the conspiracy!

Love it!  Love it!

You know you've gone off the deep end when the conspiracists don't want to have anything to do with you...


----------



## eots (Mar 23, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > KittenKoder said:
> ...



poor little retarded divecon...posting is part of his rehabilitation..even tho his post are short
repetitive and of limited vocabulary....if he post often it is beneficial for his hand eye coordination...we thank you for you patience...


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 23, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...


you are such an asshole
but then, thats not a surprise coming from a fucking moron troofer


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 23, 2009)

THIS IS HOW THEY PULLED IT OFF WITHOUT ANYBODY NOTICING.anybody with logic and common sense would understand.


Well, you're about to explain it:News flash for you . . . the governement couldnt plant the explosives necessary, in the manner necessary to cause the kind of controlled demolition you retards all think you're looking at . . . WITHOUT SOMEONE FUCKING NOTICING IT for what it was!Jeffy: "Hey Dan!" 
Dan: "Hey Jeffy, what's up?"(Unbeknownst to Jeffy, Dan is a top level government agent capable of Jedi mind tricks he learned is a secret government trianing center located underneath Virginia)
Jeffy: "What's with all this semtex and primer cord laying around the office?"
Dan: "Ahem, [Jedi mind trix0r activated!] that's not semtex and primer cord laying around the office."
Jeffy: [in monotone drone]"That's not semtex and primer cord laying around the office."
Dan: "That's all play-dough and kite strings."
Jeffy: [in monotone drone]"That's all play-dough and kite strings."
Jeffy: "Hey! That plane is headed right at us!"
Dan: "That's not a plane Jeffy, that's a pretty butterfly."
Jeffy: [in monotone drone]". . . pretty butterfly."
Dan: "I'm headed uptown for a cup of coffee, you stay here and watch the pretty butterfly, and don't touch the shiny red button until quarter to nine."
Jeffy: [in monotone drone]". . . pretty butterfly . . . quarter to nine."​


9/11 inside job said:


> got news for you,our government has been doing things like this for YEARS to the people and have made a living for years on keeping secrets from the population of the world.


Yeah. Mind tricks . . . .  woooooooOOOOOooooo!

Look dude, I'm not disputing any notions that the US government is capable of, and complicit in dirty dealings . . . I'm not even disputing your assertion that the US government was complicit in the 9/11 tragedies.  I'm just saying that if I'm to accept such complictiy, it makes a bajillion time more sense than your controlled demolition conspiracies, that the government simply got some planes, flew them into the respective buildings and then said, . . . well, "PLANES WERE FLOWN INTO THOSE BUILDINGS!"


Here it is again for you Toro,the thread I posted where you then ran off with your tail between your legs that you and your 9/11 frady cats never bothered to address since you all knew you couldnt counter it.

Quote: Originally Posted by 9/11 inside job 
Toro,you brought up a good point on this thread not too long ago I wanted to address even further than I did before.You mentioned that if explosives were used,then it would not have gone unnoticed by people in the buildings cause they would have to wire the buildings.good point but as i said before,Marvin Bush was the head of the security towers for the towers in the prior months before 9/11.so was Bush jr's cousin-Wirt Walker.Because of that,they were able to keep the coworkers from seeing what they were really doing.They brought in dumpsters all the time with the explosives hidden in them obviously.we know they brought dumpsters in the towers prior to 9/11 cause many workers saw them and saw construction workers coming in and out of the towers.

As I said before,they weren't real construction workers though.They were CIA operatives disguised as construction workers.again BUSH SR was the former director of that evil organization the CIA back in the 70's.His son was running the country and his brother was in charge of the security for the towers.Havent you ever been to a construction site before and seen where they have fences and signs that say-hard hat area,keep out? and dont allow anybody other than the construction workers to enter in there?I have.I have worked before in temp jobs doing construction before.I saw it quite a few times while doing that kind of work. well thats what was going on then.They had service elevators that only the construction workers-CIA plants,could use to get to these floors and wire them.the workers said that they heard a lot of unusual constuction work going on and the elevaters THEY used,would not allow them to stop and enter on certain floors.they had no access to them.

They didnt use regular elevators so thats how the workers there didnt know what was going on.They didnt know that Marvin Bush was a criminal or his cousin.They just thought they were real construction workers working there doing what they told them they were OFFICIALLY doing which was putting in new floor panels.they were told that and thats what they just assumed.They couldnt just go in there and look at what was going on,they call security on you for that if you do something like that.you know that.Obviously your in denial here and never watched any of those canada wants the truth videos that I postred countless numbers ot times here cause if you had,you would have seen that video where those workers there that survived,talked about seeing them bring in dumpsters and hearing loud construction work going on in the floors above them and hearing a dumpster being moved around on the floors above them.as far as them doing the unprecedented thing of saying there was a power outage that weekend,well they obviously didnt get all that work done in just one weekend,it took them a few months obviously.

Now this IS a theory of why they had the power outage happen that weekend "which never had happened there before." according to some workers who had been there 20 plus years,my theory for why they had it was they just wanted to get the CIA plants to take a quick scan of the towers and make sure the explosives were all set where they had to be and everything was ready to go.unti a new investigation is opened up,thats all we can do is speculate about that.but like i said,anybody who has a brain who watches those canada wants the truth videos can see the evidence is overwhelming explosives brought the towers down.
THATS how they did it without people noticing to answer your question.Now that THAT has been cleared up,that supposedly debunking 9/11 conspiracy link you posted and others like that, that the 9/11 apologists here blindly worship as the truth cause their in denial, are disinformation sites with disinformation,lies and propaganda.

if you want to find out the REAL truth,watch these 47 videos here.they debunk those two fairy tales the 9/11 coverup commission report and the NIST report.everytime I ask people to watch them and debunk them,they never do watch them.This is how i can tell if someone is REALLY interested in the truth or is in complete denial and wants to keep their head buried in the sand by listening to the lies and propaganda of the corporate controlled media and the government.anybody who watches these 47 videos and STILL defends the official version of the 9/11 commission report,is either an idiot moron like divecon and godboy, or they didnt watch them.I have posted it countless numbers of times here but the 9/11 apologists never watch them because they know its the truth and the truth scares them so they wont attempt to debunk them.here they are if you want to learn the TRUTH.
Canada 9/11 Truth - Videos 

^ THATS how they pulled it off without anybody noticing.anybody with any logic and common sense would see that.


----------



## LOki (Mar 23, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> No they could not!!!! if you ever bothered to get off your lazy ass and do some research instead of worshipping the government and media as the truth you would see how you have been brainwashed by them.


I'm afraid you have completely stepped off dipshit. You obviously have no idea who you're talking to, or what research I've done--particularly if you even suspect that I worship the government.



9/11 inside job said:


> the towers were designed to withstand the impact of an airliner slamming into them and the lead engineer john skilling said they designed it and anticipated what would happen if fires caught on fire in the towers.he was quoted saying-there would be a great loss of life "because of the fires" but the structures themselves would remain standing.


The towers were certainly not designed to withstand the impact of an airliner AND the fires afterward with the towers' structural members rendered unprotected from fire by that impact. No one anticipated that the stuctures would remain standing in the face of fire, where the building was UNPROTECTED from fire (If they had, the buildings' structural members would not require fire-proofing.) AND structurally compromised by the impact of an airliner. You see, they fire-proof buildings for a reason, and when that fire-proofing goes *POOF* away, the bad shit that it was installed to prevent actually happens--particularly more so if the structure has already been seriously compromised; that bad shit is known as building collapse.  Don't be a dumbfuck.



9/11 inside job said:


> I already explained that COUNTLESS numbers of times on this thread,just cause you dont want to read them doesnt mean they didnt keep it secret.you  ignored that they kept that a secret for over 50 years.


Kept what a secret? The magically fire-proof nature of the structural steel in the WTC that no other structure in the world could have, and no engineer ever heard of? That secret? Or the secret Jedi mind powers of the government and the media?



9/11 inside job said:


> thats just evidence that they do things like 9/11 to their own people all the time and DO keep secrets for many DECADES.oh and look at my next post,it will explain HOW they wired the towers and kept anyone noticing.


Look dude, let me tell you AGAIN, *I'm not disputing any notions that the US government is capable of, and complicit in dirty dealings . . . I'm not even disputing your assertion that the US government was complicit in the 9/11 tragedies.* I'm just saying that if I'm to accept such complictiy, it makes a bajillion time more sense than your controlled demolition conspiracies, that the government simply got some planes, flew them into the respective buildings and then said, . . . well, "PLANES WERE FLOWN INTO THOSE BUILDINGS!"


----------



## elvis (Mar 23, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...


 NO, numbnuts.  I said Elvis killing Kennedy is JUST AS PLAUSIBLE as the controlled demolition theory that you dipshits keep spewing.  You are a fucking moron.


----------



## eots (Mar 23, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjfoXbyffso]YouTube - 911 Mysteries - Demolitions - Squibs[/ame]


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 23, 2009)

ROFLMAO

those are not squibs from demolitions
you asshole


----------



## Godboy (Mar 24, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> ROFLMAO
> 
> those are not squibs from demolitions
> you asshole



Eots is a crazy retard wackjob. The sheer amount of lies and nonsense he spews on a daily basis is mind boggling, and his little butt fucking buddies "Terral" and "911 inside job" arent any better. This triumvarate of fools spreads lies constantly, and they cut and paste other retards lies when they run out of their own. They believe the dumbest things and continually prove they dont understand the meaning of the words "fact" and "truth".

I enjoy watching the 3 of them being mocked and belittled everyday on these boards.


----------



## Terral (Mar 24, 2009)

Hi Godboy:



Godboy said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > ROFLMAO
> ...



In other words, the Godboy has no case for anything at all. This is the kind of name-calling stupidity that we see from *Official Cover Story cronies* who come to the *"Conspiracies Forum"* to pretend no conspiracies even exist. If the Godboy had any evidence to support Jim Meigs and 'his' Cover Story LIES, then we would be looking at 'that' instead of him *acting out* and thinking up silly names to call his debating opponents through these 911Truth diliberations . . . 

GL,

Terral


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 26, 2009)

LOki said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > No they could not!!!! if you ever bothered to get off your lazy ass and do some research instead of worshipping the government and media as the truth you would see how you have been brainwashed by them.
> ...


 is not a theory its a fact.what i think is hysterical is you can accept the theory that muslims highjacked the planes and flew them into the pentagan  penetrating the best defense in the world without getting shot down,something they are trained to doin that kind of situation.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 26, 2009)

Terral said:


> Hi Godboy:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No he sure doesnt.Since he has nothing to counter with,him and the rest of the 9/11 Bush dupes just engage in childish name calling since they cant counter our points.Like I said before,its time to leave this thread and just let the Bush dupes fill it up with their childish insults since they get off on that.They proved their in denial,I asked them to address my second post on page 6 and like always,they ran away with their tails between their legs hiding when i asked them to look at my 47 videos.Eots proved that popular mechaincs is a bunch of B.S with his video he showed that debunked it,they ignored it and called him names cause they know they cant counter it,and like I said before,they never bothered to look at your link in your sig about the pentagan which proves popular mechanics is lying as well.so just let them talk to each other and finish up the thread with their chilidish name calling cause the truth scares them.


----------



## elvis (Mar 26, 2009)

I think Madonna rigged the towers to explode.  You can't prove she didn't.  after all she lives in New York.


----------



## eots (Mar 26, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> I think Madonna rigged the towers to explode.  You can't prove she didn't.  after all she lives in New York.



I think your a complete idiot...not in least bit funny or witty...and you definitely cant prove your not...

Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report


----------



## manu1959 (Mar 26, 2009)

where are the airplanes and all the people.....


----------



## Godboy (Mar 26, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> where are the airplanes and all the people.....



Addressing that issue would require logic, which is something you have to have a complete lack of in order to believe in these dumbass conspiracies.


----------



## eots (Mar 26, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> where are the airplanes and all the people.....



*good question lets release all forensic evidence and flight data .. have a facts driven investigation and find out*

 Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11:     
"We want truthful answers to question.   As Americans of conscience, we ask for four things: 
An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer 
Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings. 
Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence. 
The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry." http://www.911truth.org/article 



Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report


----------



## manu1959 (Mar 26, 2009)

eots said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > where are the airplanes and all the people.....
> ...



i thought you all proved there were no planes that hit anything....where did everything and everyone go....


----------



## eots (Mar 26, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > manu1959 said:
> ...


----------



## manu1959 (Mar 26, 2009)

eots said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


----------



## eots (Mar 26, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > manu1959 said:
> ...


----------



## manu1959 (Mar 26, 2009)

eots said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


----------



## eots (Mar 26, 2009)

it goes beyond guessing that the official story is a lie...or there was prior knowledge ...and there is no question of a cover-up...but on the details .. all tho well reasoned..the arguments are indeed theory...


----------



## manu1959 (Mar 26, 2009)

eots said:


> it goes beyond guessing that the official story is a lie...or there was prior knowledge ...and there is no question of a cover-up...but on the details .. all tho well reasoned..the arguments are indeed theory...



there is no question people do not have the information they think they should have......

from there ..... people have gone where they like .....


----------



## manu1959 (Mar 26, 2009)

Godboy said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > where are the airplanes and all the people.....
> ...



what i find interesting is you can't break into an office building in dc without the press finding out.....but.....

 you can steal two elections, hide four airplanes make thousands of people disapear, blow up the pentagone, blow up buildings in downtown new york, invade two countries and destroy your your reputation in the process yet no one can prove you did any of it......oh yea and steall trillions of dollars via aig......


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 26, 2009)

a new investifgation would be a huge waste of tax payer funds
they would only find what we already know and these morons would STILL say it was an inside job


----------



## elvis (Mar 26, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> a new investifgation would be a huge waste of tax payer funds
> they would only find what we already know and these morons would STILL say it was an inside job



honestly, it's no more of a waste than some of the stuff in Obama's stimulus package.


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 26, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > a new investifgation would be a huge waste of tax payer funds
> ...


maybe so
but since it wouldnt convince these morons anyway, and they are the ONLY ones that want it

why bother?


----------



## elvis (Mar 26, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



agreed.


----------



## eots (Mar 28, 2009)

LET THE TRUTH BE KNOWN.....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u3JSEqNtlg]YouTube - Immortal Technique Cause Of Death Lyrics[/ame]


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 28, 2009)

eots said:


> LET THE TRUTH BE KNOWN.....
> 
> YouTube - Immortal Technique Cause Of Death Lyrics



LOL.great video Eots.It perfectly describes the moron Bush dupes here like Divecon.


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 28, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > LET THE TRUTH BE KNOWN.....
> ...


you are such a fucking moron


----------



## elvis (Mar 28, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > LET THE TRUTH BE KNOWN.....
> ...



Is Noam Chomsky a Bush dupe?


----------



## elvis (Mar 28, 2009)

Can anyone tell me in less than an entire page why Popular Mechanics is wrong?


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 28, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Can anyone tell me in less than an entire page why Popular Mechanics is wrong?


they cant even do it in 3 pages
because they arent


----------



## elvis (Mar 28, 2009)

I would just like basic points.


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 28, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> I would just like basic points.


come on, you know by now you wont ever get it
you will get a lot of C&P crap that never even addresses the point


----------



## eots (Mar 28, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Can anyone tell me in less than an entire page why Popular Mechanics is wrong?



well for one thing even the nist report is not even in agreement with the popular mechanics
theories

Former Chief of NIST's Fire Science Division Calls for Independent Review of World Trade Center Investigation

http://ww/articles/genera_alan_mil_070820_former_chief_of_nist.htm

This hypothesis may be supported or modified, or new hypotheses may be developed, through the course of the continuing investigation. NIST also is considering whether hypothetical blast events could have played a role in initiating the collapse. While NIST has found no evidence of a blast or controlled demolition event, NIST would like to determine the magnitude of hypothetical blast scenarios that could have led to the structural failure of one or more critical elements. 


NISTs findings do not support the pancake theory of collapse, which is premised on a progressive failure of the floor systems in the WTC towers (the composite floor systemthat connected the core columns and the perimeter columnsconsisted of a grid of steel trusses integrated with a concrete slab; see diagram below). Instead, the NIST investigation showed conclusively that the failure of the inwardly bowed perimeter columns initiated collapse and that the occurrence of this inward bowing required the sagging floors to remain connected to the columns and pull the columns inwards. Thus, the floors did not fail progressively to cause a pancaking phenomenon.


NIST's Investigation of the Sept. 11 World Trade Center Disaster - Frequently Asked Questions


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 28, 2009)

eots said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > Can anyone tell me in less than an entire page why Popular Mechanics is wrong?
> ...


interesting
your link to the NIST actually DOES say it was pancaked


----------



## eots (Mar 28, 2009)

*
NIST&#8217;s findings do not support the &#8220;pancake theory&#8221; of collapse*, which is premised on a progressive failure of the floor systems in the WTC towers (the composite floor system&#8212;that connected the core columns and the perimeter columns&#8212;consisted of a grid of steel &#8220;trusses&#8221; integrated with a concrete slab; see diagram below). Instead, the NIST investigation showed conclusively that the failure of the inwardly bowed perimeter columns initiated collapse and that the occurrence of this inward bowing required the sagging floors to remain connected to the columns and pull the columns inwards.* Thus, the floors did not fail progressively to cause a pancaking phenomenon.*


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 28, 2009)

*4. Weren't the puffs of smoke that were seen, as the collapse of each WTC tower starts, evidence of controlled demolition explosions?*
No. As stated in Section 6.14.4 of NIST NCSTAR 1, the falling mass of the building compressed the air ahead of it&#8212;much like the action of a piston&#8212;forcing smoke and debris out the windows as the stories below failed sequentially.
These puffs were observed at many locations as the towers collapsed. In all cases, they had the appearance of jets of gas being pushed from the building through windows or between columns on the mechanical floors. Such jets are expected since the air inside the building is compressed as the tower falls and must flow somewhere as the pressure builds. It is significant that similar &#8220;puffs&#8221; were observed numerous times on the fire floors in both towers prior to their collapses, perhaps due to falling walls or portions of a floor.  Puffs from WTC 1 were even observed when WTC 2 was struck by the aircraft. These observations confirm that even minor overpressures were transmitted through the towers and forced smoke and debris from the building.


----------



## eots (Mar 28, 2009)

and it says pancake collapse where >I agree however it implies a pancake collapse to explain the squibs
even tho in the next breath they don't support the theory


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 28, 2009)

eots said:


> and it says pancake collapse where >I agree however it implies a pancake collapse to explain the squibs
> even tho in the next breath they don't support the theory


in the earlier question where you are quoting from, seems like they are answering the CAUSE of the begining of the collapse and not the entire collapse
no, pancaking did not CAUSE it to begin with
but it DID pancake


----------



## elvis (Mar 28, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > and it says pancake collapse where >I agree however it implies a pancake collapse to explain the squibs
> ...



I thought everyone agreed that it pancaked.  The point the troofers usually make is that they collapsed at free fall speed AND pancaked, making explosives the only possible explanation.


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 28, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


it didn't fall at free fall speeds either
they use the full hight of the building and when it stopped the collapse
but they refuse to figure in that it stopped with a 4 story tall pile
but they still use those 4 stories in the free fall speed calculations


----------



## elvis (Mar 28, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



ah ok. seems like I remember hearing it didn't collapse at FFS.   still, I thought EVERYONE agreed they pancaked.


----------



## eots (Mar 28, 2009)

no pancakes ..in a pancake collapse the floors stay intact and the support between gives way...as opposed to the wtc where it was  turned to a fine dust


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 29, 2009)

eots said:


> no pancakes ..in a pancake collapse the floors stay intact and the support between gives way...as opposed to the wtc where it was  turned to a fine dust


and just what do you think cause it to turn into a dust?

which you are wrong on in the first place, but just to humor you


----------



## eots (Mar 29, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO_Tz3FhkMo]YouTube - WTC 7 Pyroclastic Flow[/ame]


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 29, 2009)

eots said:


> YouTube - WTC 7 Pyroclastic Flow


which as usual
doesnt answer my question


----------



## eots (Mar 29, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6KRJ4x82L0]YouTube - 9/11 Official Pancake Theory Debunked[/ame]


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 29, 2009)

eots said:


> YouTube - 9/11 Official Pancake Theory Debunked


and yet again, that does NOT answer my question


----------



## eots (Mar 29, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > YouTube - 9/11 Official Pancake Theory Debunked
> ...



or it does answer the question but is beyond your limited intelligence...or blocked out in your denial disorder


----------



## KittenKoder (Mar 29, 2009)

Wait ... you mean Eots thinks that a building collapsing will have the floors in tact ... what? *confused* How the hell is that possible, doesn't that completely negate a collapse?


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 29, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


i didn't even watch your stupid fucking videos
moron
i asked YOU a question, not that stupid shit in the video
YOU
answer the fucking question
in YOUR OWN WORDS
can you do that?
do you have the intellect to do so?


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 29, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Wait ... you mean Eots thinks that a building collapsing will have the floors in tact ... what? *confused* How the hell is that possible, doesn't that completely negate a collapse?


no shit
hes nutz


----------



## eots (Mar 29, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Wait ... you mean Eots thinks that a building collapsing will have the floors in tact ... what? *confused* How the hell is that possible, doesn't that completely negate a collapse?



oh just shut the fuck up..you have no clue ..you proved that with your retarded melting oven and exploding stove nonsense...


----------



## eots (Mar 29, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



well if that's the case you are the stupid one ...the video is my answer...if you don't view 
it ...you only further display your denial and avoidance of the facts


----------



## eots (Mar 29, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdQh18kvpRU]YouTube - Debunking Novas Pancake Theory of WTC using common sense[/ame]


----------



## eots (Mar 29, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8W-t57xnZg&feature=related]YouTube - MIT Engineer Disputes 911 Theory of the WTC Collapse-Part 1[/ame]


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 29, 2009)

eots said:


> YouTube - MIT Engineer Disputes 911 Theory of the WTC Collapse-Part 1


that guy is lying in the first 30 seconds
the site wasnt "scrubed" it was an active rescue event for DAYS
and then the material that was removed was put within access of those investigating and they got plenty of samples
you so called truthers are the biggest bunch of liars on the face of the earth


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 29, 2009)

eots said:


> YouTube - Debunking Novas Pancake Theory of WTC using common sense


this one was also lying


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 29, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


i dont deny FACTS but i WILL deny LIES
thats all your videos HAVE


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 29, 2009)

eots said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > Wait ... you mean Eots thinks that a building collapsing will have the floors in tact ... what? *confused* How the hell is that possible, doesn't that completely negate a collapse?
> ...


actually, you first lied about your wood stove and claimed it was made out of steel, then you lated admited it was made out of cast iron, then you started talking about an old gas kitchen stove you had and i believe she got confused with that and thought you were still talking about the same stove(wood stove)
so, dont get upset at her for getting confused by your bullshit


----------



## eots (Mar 29, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > KittenKoder said:
> ...




she is confused as a natural state ..your thoughts are a little more orderly but your denial makes up for it


----------



## eots (Mar 29, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3151MqXu52s&feature=related]YouTube - Fire Weakens Steel but not Woman Waving in WTC North Tower[/ame]


----------



## KittenKoder (Mar 29, 2009)

eots said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > Wait ... you mean Eots thinks that a building collapsing will have the floors in tact ... what? *confused* How the hell is that possible, doesn't that completely negate a collapse?
> ...



No, all that proved was that you are a liar and not smart enough to make it believable ...


----------



## KittenKoder (Mar 29, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



You can't even quote right on here. No, I never realized you had changed to gas stoves in the conversation as it would have nothing to do with steel melting ...


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 29, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


see, i was right


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 29, 2009)

eots said:


> YouTube - Fire Weakens Steel but not Woman Waving in WTC North Tower


more nonsense trying to make a case
it is not hard to figure out that she was on the very EDGE of the building and that the wind was blowing in to that point
the heat was further in and anyone with common sense could figure that out
but you LACK common sense


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 29, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



err dont know where on earth you ever came to that conclusion.NIST has said it pancaked which is impossible to do from a mere collapse of a tower since it would fall gradually.Not at free fall speed like it did.


----------



## manu1959 (Mar 29, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



in order to get a building to free fall at 32' / sec / sec .....what would you have to do to the structural system of the building.....in your own words....


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 29, 2009)

eots said:


> no pancakes ..in a pancake collapse the floors stay intact and the support between gives way...as opposed to the wtc where it was  turned to a fine dust



exactly.thats how we know it did not pancake like NIST and the NOVA propaganda series says it did.


----------



## eots (Mar 29, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...









> Quote: Originally Posted by eots
> call me a liar.. what a stupid bitch...what a waste of time... if your feeble little mind can not understand that i have had the same stove for 20 years now and so have many of my neighbours ,,and in fact *my gas stove was built in 1942*... all of which needed to be certified as safe for home insurance if you cant deal with these facts..just fuck off






> Just because something is certified doesn't mean you can't still kill yourself with it. Steak knifes are certified safe. Really, you have to be lying since what you state goes beyond all logic, the same logic you try to use to justify your conspiracy theories. But like the conspiracy logic it's based on lies and invented "facts". However, *if yours was built in 1942, you do realize that there is no way it would have held up that long under the heat you are using it, so thanks for proving that you are a liar even more. Non of the stoves made before 1960 could pass modern inspections. *





*liar*


----------



## manu1959 (Mar 29, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > no pancakes ..in a pancake collapse the floors stay intact and the support between gives way...as opposed to the wtc where it was  turned to a fine dust
> ...



was the sturctural system of the wtc a uniqe system...in other words has a similar building collapsed.....


----------



## elvis (Mar 29, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



one that was hit by an airplane at 500 mph.


----------



## eots (Mar 29, 2009)

ET FUEL TYPE A-1 
Flash point: 38 °C (100.4 °F) 
Autoignition temperature: 210 °C (410 °F) 
Freezing point: &#8722;47 °C (&#8722;52.6 °F). (&#8722;40 °C (&#8722;40 °F) for JET A) 
Open air burning temperatures: 287.5 °C (549.5 °F) 
Density at 15 °C (59 °F): 0.8075 kg/L 
Specific energy 43.15 MJ/kg [3] 

OK JUST SHUT UP RIGHT NOW WITH YOUR MADE UP FACTS AND GO CLEAN YOUR LITTER BOX OR SOMETHING


----------



## elvis (Mar 29, 2009)

eots said:


> ET FUEL TYPE A-1
> Flash point: 38 °C (100.4 °F)
> Autoignition temperature: 210 °C (410 °F)
> Freezing point: &#8722;47 °C (&#8722;52.6 °F). (&#8722;40 °C (&#8722;40 °F) for JET A)
> ...



Ok, I'll go clean the litter box.  Then I'll come back and you'll still be a moron.


----------



## manu1959 (Mar 29, 2009)

eots said:


> ET FUEL TYPE A-1
> Flash point: 38 °C (100.4 °F)
> Autoignition temperature: 210 °C (410 °F)
> Freezing point: &#8722;47 °C (&#8722;52.6 °F). (&#8722;40 °C (&#8722;40 °F) for JET A)
> ...



with the fireproofing blown off the steal due to the impact...

with the perimeter, truss and core structural system damged.....

with the fire supression system compromised.....

with the jet fuel used as an accelerante to ignite the contents of the office building....

with stored energy of mutiple floors above this point.....

how hot would the fire need to get to weaken the remaining connection and support points and release the stored energy above....


----------



## eots (Mar 29, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > ET FUEL TYPE A-1
> ...



ya good response to facts...you make a really strong argument......for how lame you are


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 29, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > elvis3577 said:
> ...



But it wouldnt be free fall speed if it was at 32 seconds.the way we know it came down at freefall speed is all you got to do is time it when it starts collapsing and its timed at 11 seconds which equals free fall speed.in order for the 9/11 Bush dupes such as Divecon to accept the official version,you got to say that the rules of physics that scientists have gone by for thousands of years dating back to Aristrophes no longer apply anymore and that Sir Issac newton is an idiot.

 As I talked with you about before,the evidence is overwhelming that explosives brought the towers down.all you got to do is look at the videos.there is one out there that the mainstream media has suppressed where it shows black billowing smoke rising from the street BEFORE the towers have collapse and you hear explosions going off as well.so the film footage backs up the witnesses testimonys that they heard and saw bright  orange yellow explosions going off that came from the BASEMENT below seconds BEFORE the plane struck the tower above.The CIA screwed up 
in their timing when setting off the charges obviously. Not only does the film footage prove explosions were going off before the towers fell but witnesses in the street saw the workers in the building carrying a man on fire who came from the elevator basement below  on fire   before the plane struck the tower above yelling out-oh my god,theres explosions going off in the basement.But the 9/11 Bush dupes like Divecon are so much in denial,they never watch our videos we show them that prove it all since the truth scares them.


----------



## manu1959 (Mar 29, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...




free fall is 32' / sec /sec......and you did not tell me what you would have to do to the building to free fall....and not pancake.....

and you are giving the cia credit for this op....no i know you have nothing to stand on.....


----------



## eots (Mar 29, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > ET FUEL TYPE A-1
> ...



a lot hotter than a kerosene fire can create ...by a 1000 degrees or so.....actually...and the firefighters made it to the 79th floor before reporting fires... and then said they could put them out with two hoses.....a few secs latter the building imploded 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkc0HG2Zssg]YouTube - 9/11 Firefighter Communications In WTC - Part 3[/ame]


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 29, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



Hell yeah.It was OVER designed by the engineers to withstand a jet airliner slamming into it.John Skilling the lead engineer-whom NOVA totally ignored the testimony of back in 93 after the first bombing occured,was quoted back in 93 by the new york times saying that when they constructed the towers,they designed it with the idea of an airliner slamming into at speeds up to 600 miles an hour.the highest speed the two airliners reached was 540 mph.They anticipated the fire.He was quoted back then saying-there would be a great loss of life due to the fires,but the structure itself would remain standing.the 9/11 Bush dupes of course will live in denial that he never said that but thats cause they never do any research cause he WAS quoted saying that back then. Not only that but the construction manager Frank Demartini back in jan 01 on MODERN MARVELS on the history channel was quoted saying it could withstand taking a hit from MULTIPLE airliners and it would remain standing.That the towers were like a mosquito netting,that it would be like puncturing a pencil hole through the screen netting on your door.it does absolutley nothjing to it because just like the screen netting,it is an intense grid that cant be harmed by even MULTIPLE airliners hitting it. you can see him on video talking about it if you go to youtube.com and type in 9/11 mysteries or 9/11 in plane site.I have posted those videos here countless numbers of times but the like always,the Bush dupes ignore it.


----------



## elvis (Mar 29, 2009)

eots said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



I was responding to your idiotic post...

so bite me.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 29, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > manu1959 said:
> ...



No YOU have nothing to stand on by choosing to only selectively address PARTS of my posts.you only address PARTS of it because you know you cant counter what it says.


----------



## eots (Mar 29, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iS-amgh0qw&feature=related]YouTube - 9/11 Firefighter Communications In WTC - Part 8[/ame]


----------



## manu1959 (Mar 29, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



so do i take it you agree that it is a one of a kind structural system and that there has been no other building like it to colapse ..... what was the size of the plane the building was designed to take a hit from .....


----------



## manu1959 (Mar 29, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



i only have one part to my post and you write an esay about nothing and avoid a very simply question.....

to get this building to "free fall" .....what would you have to do to the structural system....


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 29, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > ET FUEL TYPE A-1
> ...



stop listening to the fairy tales that NOVA tells you.They reinforced it after the 93 bombing with fireproofing to make sure that never happened.The Bush dupes here make themselves look like idiots when they say the firew weakened the steel because if you ever took any science classes,you would know that jet fuel only burns at 1800 degrees. to even begin to weaken steel fire temps have to reach temps of 2700 degrees.until the Bush dupes take some science classes and accept this fact,their just talking out of their ass.I know this cause i have a friend who worked on buildings for over 30 years an is a certified steel worker.


----------



## elvis (Mar 29, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



why don't you submit your argument to a scientific journal or to a physics department at a local university?


----------



## eots (Mar 29, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > manu1959 said:
> ...



blow it up...like in a controlled demolition


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 29, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > manu1959 said:
> ...



why are you asking ME,I have never claimed to be a demolition expert? you should be interviewing a demo expert if you want to know that question.I CAN say that the head of a huge demo company has said that if they were going to bring down a building,they would rig explosives at the BOTTOM of the base to bring the towers down which fits in perfectly with the witness testimony of the coworkers and the video footage that explosives brought the towers down.


----------



## manu1959 (Mar 29, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



it seemed a simple question ..... was there enough combustible material on the damaged floors to have a fire burn at a temperature hot enough to weaken the steel .....


----------



## manu1959 (Mar 29, 2009)

eots said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



do controlled demolitions pancake or free fall.....


----------



## manu1959 (Mar 29, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



so you have no idea ..... but you have a friend that works in the steel industry .... got it...


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 29, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Can anyone tell me in less than an entire page why Popular Mechanics is wrong?



Me, eots, and terral already answered that many times in our posts here but I'll repeat it in my next few posts,THEN its time to leave this thread since the answers are about to be given AGAIN.
Below in the next few posts of mine is WHY popular mechanics is wrong.


----------



## manu1959 (Mar 29, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > Can anyone tell me in less than an entire page why Popular Mechanics is wrong?
> ...



you can't be trusted.....you have no clue how to make a building free fall and your knowledge comes from some alledged friend that has been in the steel industry for 30 years.....probably some dude making plates upstate...


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 29, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> in order to get a building to free fall at 32' / sec / sec .....what would you have to do to the structural system of the building.....in your own words....



But it wouldnt be free fall speed if it was at 32 seconds.the way we know it came down at freefall speed is all you got to do is time it when it starts collapsing and its timed at 11 seconds which equals free fall speed.in order for the 9/11 Bush dupes such as Divecon to accept the official version,you got to say that the rules of physics that scientists have gone by for thousands of years dating back to Aristrophes no longer apply anymore and that Sir Issac newton is an idiot.

 As I talked with you about before,the evidence is overwhelming that explosives brought the towers down.all you got to do is look at the videos.there is one out there that the mainstream media has suppressed where it shows black billowing smoke rising from the street BEFORE the towers have collapse and you hear explosions going off as well.so the film footage backs up the witnesses testimonys that they heard and saw bright  orange yellow explosions going off that came from the BASEMENT below seconds BEFORE the plane struck the tower above.The CIA screwed up 
in their timing when setting off the charges obviously. Not only does the film footage prove explosions were going off before the towers fell but witnesses in the street saw the workers in the building carrying a man on fire who came from the elevator basement below  on fire   before the plane struck the tower above yelling out-oh my god,theres explosions going off in the basement.But the 9/11 Bush dupes like Divecon are so much in denial,they never watch our videos we show them that prove it all since the truth scares them.[/QUOTE]

THIS ^ is WHY we know POPULAR MECHANICS is wrong and a fairy tale.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 29, 2009)

eots said:


> YouTube - Popular Mechanics Debunked



we know from THIS VIDEO that Popular Mechanics is wrong and a fairy tale.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 29, 2009)

eots said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



THIS video of Eots is ALSO proof that Popular Mechanics is wrong and a  fairy tale.


----------



## elvis (Mar 29, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > manu1959 said:
> ...


So when are you submitting it to a scientific journal or to a physics/structural engr dept of a university?


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 29, 2009)

I cant quote it since it is so long but my second post on page two of this thread also proves that an article that Kevin Ryan wrote critising the NIST report and explaining WHY Popular Mechanics is wrong ALSO proves WHY Popular Mechanics is wrong and a fairy tale.


----------



## manu1959 (Mar 29, 2009)

so how do you all know the govt an cia set these alleged charges on every single floor and all the peremiter columns....


----------



## elvis (Mar 29, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> so how do you all know the govt an cia set these alleged charges on every single floor and all the peremiter columns....



because Marvin Bush worked for the security company that worked for the WTC.


----------



## eots (Mar 29, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



*you mean like MIT*

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pD6mfK_bKg]YouTube - 911 M.I.T. Professor[/ame]


----------



## manu1959 (Mar 29, 2009)

eots said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



how many of those columns both interior and exterior would need to have charges placed on them and on how many floors.....


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 29, 2009)

and FINALLY we also know that Popular Mechanics is wrong because Terrals first link on his first post on page three about the pentagan coverup proves it as well.not to mention my 47 canada wants the truth videos that the Bush dupes always put their tail between their legs and run off from and never watch because they know they cant counter the evidence in those videos that explosives brought the towers down and 9/11 was an inside job.anybody who wacthes those videos and still defends the official version are on drugs.


----------



## elvis (Mar 29, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > elvis3577 said:
> ...



Ask Marvin Bush.


----------



## eots (Mar 29, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leY9SJAQqnU]YouTube - 9/11 Truth: David Ray Griffin - "Confronting the Evidence"[/ame]


----------



## elvis (Mar 29, 2009)

eots said:


> YouTube - 9/11 Truth: David Ray Griffin - "Confronting the Evidence"



I've already watched that video and all Griffin's videos.  Zelikow wrote a book with Condi Rice.  Doesn't prove Bush put explosive in WTC.


----------



## eots (Mar 29, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



you just cant deal with the realities can you...this is your response to the MIT study ??
no wonder.....


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 29, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...


thanks for showing everyone how much real estate in own in that puny mind of yours


----------



## elvis (Mar 29, 2009)

eots said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > manu1959 said:
> ...




I know the theories.  I have already seen the videos.  They don't stand up to scrutiny.  it wasn'ta  response to the video, it was a response to manu.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 29, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > so how do you all know the govt an cia set these alleged charges on every single floor and all the peremiter columns....
> ...



Yes and Bush Sr used to work for the CIA,thats how the CIA was able to pull it off and plants the explosives in the towers.The workers did not have access to the floors to see what was going on during this whole time.the construction workers-CIA plants,used service elevators to go to these floors and plant these explosives,the workers did not have access to these floors.They had signs posted that said HARD HAT AREA,KEEP OUT.you try and enter a hard hat area like that and they call security on you and they arrest you for that.this is a fact the Bush dupes always try and ignore and try to explain away only to make fools of themselves in the procees.well its been proven now that explosives brought down the towers and WHY Popular mechanics is a fairy tale so its really time to ditch this thread and stop bumping it for good now.


----------



## manu1959 (Mar 29, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> and FINALLY we also know that Popular Mechanics is wrong because Terrals first link on his first post on page three about the pentagan coverup proves it as well.not to mention my 47 canada wants the truth videos that the Bush dupes always put their tail between their legs and run off from and never watch because they know they cant counter the evidence in those videos that explosives brought the towers down and 9/11 was an inside job.anybody who wacthes those videos and still defends the official version are on drugs.



if an airplane hit the wtc and if charges were placed to create a controled free fall demolition....

how do you know it wasn't someone other than the us that put the charges there.....


----------



## eots (Mar 29, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6Ls6sifFJo&feature=related]YouTube - Lt. Col. Bob Bowman: "Who Were the [9/11] Conspirators?"[/ame]

*Lt. Col. Robert Bowman, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) &#8211; Director of Advanced Space Programs Development under Presidents Ford and Carter.  U.S. Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions. (PhD in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering, Cal Tech).   Former Head of the Department of Aeronautical Engineering and Assistant Dean at the U.S. Air Force Institute of Technology.*  22-year Air Force career.  Also taught Mathematics and English at the University of Southern California, the University of Maryland, and Phillips University. 
Member: Political Leaders for 9/11 Truth Association Statement: 

"Scholars and professionals with various kinds of expertise---including architects, engineers, firefighters, intelligence officers, lawyers, medical professionals, military officers, philosophers, religious leaders, physical scientists, and pilots---have spoken out about radical discrepancies between the official account of the 9/11 attacks and what they, as independent researchers, have learned. 

They have established beyond any reasonable doubt that the official account of 9/11 is false and that, therefore, the official &#8220;investigations&#8221; have really been cover-up operations. 

Thus far, however, there has been no response from political leaders in Washington or, for that matter, in other capitals around the world. Our organization, Political Leaders for 9/11 Truth, has been formed to help bring about such a response. 

We believe that the truth about 9/11 needs to be exposed now---not in 50 years as a footnote in the history books---so the policies that have been based on the Bush-Cheney administration&#8217;s interpretation of the 9/11 attacks can be changed. 

We are, therefore, calling for a new, independent investigation of 9/11 that takes account of evidence that has been documented by independent researchers but thus far ignored by governments and the mainstream media." 


Video 9/11/04: "A lot of these pieces of information, taken together, prove that the official story, the official conspiracy theory of 9/11 is a bunch of hogwash.  It&#8217;s impossible. &#8230; There&#8217;s a second group of facts having to do with the cover up. &#8230; Taken together these things prove that high levels of our government don&#8217;t want us to know what happened and who&#8217;s responsible.&#8230; 

Who gained from 9/11?  Who covered up crucial information about 9/11?  And who put out the patently false stories about 9/11 in the first place?  When you take those three things together, I think the case is pretty clear that it&#8217;s highly placed individuals in the administration with all roads passing through Dick Cheney. 

I think the very kindest thing that we can say about George W. Bush and all the people in the U.S. Government that have been involved in this massive cover-up, the very kindest thing we can say is that they were aware of impending attacks and let them happen.  Now some people will say that&#8217;s much too kind, however even that is high treason and conspiracy to commit murder."  http://video.go


----------



## elvis (Mar 29, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > manu1959 said:
> ...




Bush Sr was head of the CIA.  That proves the Bush family blew up the towers.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 29, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > YouTube - 9/11 Truth: David Ray Griffin - "Confronting the Evidence"
> ...



the 47 videos prove that explosives brought the towers down,and who said anything about Griffin? only SOME of them are videos from Griffin,many are videos that Griffin had nothing to do with.IF explosives were planted,only the CIA could have done it.thats their speciality.with Bush Jr gets a call from Bush sr -former CIA director and arranges it all for son for his CIA buddies to plant them.Like I said,we already proved the explosives brought the towers down and it was an inside job,no sense going any further anymore.


----------



## manu1959 (Mar 29, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



so the cia is suddenly a reliable intelligence group.....that was able to plant explosive on everfloor in the building both at interior and exterior columns......


----------



## eots (Mar 29, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > elvis3577 said:
> ...



who ever said the CIA was incapable ???


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Mar 29, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > and FINALLY we also know that Popular Mechanics is wrong because Terrals first link on his first post on page three about the pentagan coverup proves it as well.not to mention my 47 canada wants the truth videos that the Bush dupes always put their tail between their legs and run off from and never watch because they know they cant counter the evidence in those videos that explosives brought the towers down and 9/11 was an inside job.anybody who wacthes those videos and still defends the official version are on drugs.
> ...



Like i said,the CIA specializes in these kind of operations.they are an evil organization that makes the third reich look like a bunch of choir boys.also look at Eots video above about Bob Bowman,Bowman knows his stuff.I have met him before.a real intelligent and smart guy.only the government could have done it under the guise of Marvin Bush heading the security of the towers.Ive posted it before,hundreds of times, but it always go ignored by the Bush dupes like Divecon since they know they cant counter what the videos show and prove, but anybody who watches these videos and STILL defends the official version,is on drugs.Canada 9/11 Truth - Videos  the evidence in these videos that explosives brought the towers down and was an inside job  is overwhelming.you got two choices.A-Be a coward like divecon and the other Bush dupes here and dont watch the videos and defend the official version or B-Be  patriot and watch those videos and email your friends them.its your choice.nuff said.


----------



## manu1959 (Mar 29, 2009)

eots said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



the wmds are a slam dunk cia....that cia....


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 29, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > manu1959 said:
> ...


the same CIA that didnt plan it out well enough to actually PLANT WMD to be found


----------



## eots (Mar 30, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



*clearly that was not necessary with victims such as yourself  who are....so easily duped...*
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQFb9cYawds]YouTube - 911 Holograms[/ame]


----------



## elvis (Mar 30, 2009)

we aren't going to believe what Alex Jones says.  we aren't going to watch his videos.  so pick something else.


----------



## eots (Mar 30, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> we aren't going to believe what Alex Jones says.  we aren't going to watch his videos.  so pick something else.



well then your a asshole ..its a clip about how the Hearst media corporation also uses television_ programs _to shape the opinions of assholes like divecon  and your self...but your loss....


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 30, 2009)

eots said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > we aren't going to believe what Alex Jones says.  we aren't going to watch his videos.  so pick something else.
> ...


except none of them shaped our opinions like Alex Jones does YOURS


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 30, 2009)

btw, eots, i highly doubt the CIA likes looking so much like morons like you troofers do
them being so massively wrong about stockpiles of WMD in Iraq has tainted their image


----------



## elvis (Mar 30, 2009)

eots said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > we aren't going to believe what Alex Jones says.  we aren't going to watch his videos.  so pick something else.
> ...



fuck you dickhead.  Alex Jones is a sensationalist liar.  I know what the media does, that's why I dont watch television.  I don't need some fuckhead like Alex Jones to tell me how the media and newspapers try to shape my opinion, especially when he does the very same thing to freaks like you. 
 Bush did NOT make the buildings collapse no matter how many times you pathetic motherfuckers say he did.  I have said over and over again that structural engineers who SPECIALIZE in controlled demolitions  have stated that a controlled demolition would not happen in that manner.  There would have been a larger MOUND of debris.  It wouldn't have gone down the street several blocks.  
But you're too fucking stupid and paranoid to understand that, so I won't waste any more time on your stupid ass.


----------



## eots (Mar 30, 2009)

or maybe they are beyond your _little look like  a moron_ fears and are instead concerned instead of their objectives...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4JuU7gxw6E]YouTube - Disinfo in the 9/11 Truth Movement[/ame].


----------



## elvis (Mar 30, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> btw, eots, i highly doubt the CIA likes looking so much like morons like you troofers do
> them being so massively wrong about stockpiles of WMD in Iraq has tainted their image



Nah, it all went according to plan.  The New World Order and illuminati wanted us the THINK there were WMD's in Iraq so they could bring the USA down.


----------



## eots (Mar 30, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > elvis3577 said:
> ...



bullshit ..popular mechanics and the disposers of the evidence .controled demolitions inc 
is all you have....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8W-t57xnZg]YouTube - MIT Engineer Disputes 911 Theory of the WTC Collapse-Part 1[/ame]


----------



## eots (Mar 30, 2009)

> *The Earth is flat. /B] Did bolding the letters make that statement any more true? *


*



no... but your response definitely maneged to make yourself even more lame ..as you screwed it up*


----------



## elvis (Mar 30, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > manu1959 said:
> ...



*The world is flat.*  There ya happy, cockmouth?


----------



## elvis (Mar 30, 2009)

eots said:


> > *The Earth is flat. /B] Did bolding the letters make that statement any more true? *
> 
> 
> *
> ...


*

Yeah I'm the lame one because I couldn't edit the post because my computer froze up.  

You're not the lame one because think Alex Jones is a god. *


----------



## elvis (Mar 30, 2009)

eots said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



No, it's not all I have.  It's all I'm GIVING  you.  to give you more would be to waste time on a paranoid deranged lunatic.  Enjoy your life in fantasyland.  I am sure you and your boyfriend 9/11 rimjob will have a lot of fun jerking each other to Alex Jones.  bye.


----------



## eots (Mar 30, 2009)

ya ..ok your computer froze..I see....uh huh.... 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LXQvcSdN38]YouTube - Attack of the Brain dead Sheeple...[/ame]


----------



## elvis (Mar 30, 2009)

Yes my flaw is my computer is a dinosaur. But you are a moronic douchebag and I can get a new computer.


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 30, 2009)

eots said:


> ya ..ok your computer froze..I see....uh huh....
> 
> YouTube - Attack of the Brain dead Sheeple...


HA HA,  thats actually good
you troofers are the epitome of braindead sheeple


----------



## eots (Mar 30, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Yes my flaw is my computer is a dinosaur. But you are a moronic douchebag and I can get a new computer.



your computer isn't the only dinosaur...I hear they had very small brains as well...just sayin


----------



## eots (Mar 30, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzDiecHdme8&feature=related]YouTube - Screw The Sheeple[/ame]


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 30, 2009)

yup, troofers are sheeple


----------



## elvis (Mar 30, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> yup, troofers are sheeple



I wonder if there is a 9/11 troofer compound somewhere.  you know, like a cult where the religious leader Alex Jones indoctrinates these poor bastards.  wait a minute.......

Alex Jones, Jim Jones,  Is there a connection?  Holy...


----------



## eots (Mar 30, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> yup, troofers are sheeple



*divcon giving scuba instruction to elvis  ?*

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDLQzFi7dAY]YouTube - Gay Diver[/ame]


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 30, 2009)

figures eots would have something like that


----------



## elvis (Mar 30, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> figures eots would have something like that



he's the clever one.


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 30, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > figures eots would have something like that
> ...


he also claims to be a commercial diver


----------



## eots (Mar 30, 2009)

CLAIMS !...as if...I have dove in shit you couldn't imagine ..total black water.. 5 knot currents..under the ice ..inside ballast tanks ..effluent ponds...inside outfall pipes...in- water repairs and hull cleanings on deep sea vessels.. as well as in the fishery's as a seafood harvester..I spent 12 years diving and logged thousands of hours in water...


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 30, 2009)

eots said:


> CLAIMS !...as if...I have dove in shit you couldn't imagine ..total black water.. 5 knot currents..under the ice ..inside ballast tanks ..effluent ponds...inside outfall pipes...in- water repairs and hull cleanings on deep sea vessels.. as well as in the fishery's as a seafood harvester..I spent 12 years diving and logged thousands of hours in water...


dont get your panties in a bunch, look up the meaning of the word "claim"
because you just claimed again, to be exactly what i said


----------



## eots (Mar 30, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > CLAIMS !...as if...I have dove in shit you couldn't imagine ..total black water.. 5 knot currents..under the ice ..inside ballast tanks ..effluent ponds...inside outfall pipes...in- water repairs and hull cleanings on deep sea vessels.. as well as in the fishery's as a seafood harvester..I spent 12 years diving and logged thousands of hours in water...
> ...



LOL...sorry..


SubSea Solutions Alliance | Underwater ship maintenance specialists


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 30, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


not sure just what that proves?


----------



## eots (Mar 30, 2009)

not trying to prove anything ..this is who I worked much of my diving career with


----------



## DiveCon (Mar 30, 2009)

eots said:


> not trying to prove anything ..this is who I worked much of my diving career with


ok, i never challeged your claim that you were a diver.
i didnt get into diving to make it a career, i did it for fun.


----------



## eots (Mar 30, 2009)

i harvested urchins...eventually i got spines in my knee it took a couple of years and three operations to repair my knee and then i just lost my drive for it..it wasnt fun anymore

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXQF7dhVDSY&feature=related[/ame]


----------



## diana (Apr 1, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > not trying to prove anything ..this is who I worked much of my diving career with
> ...



i do diving for fun too


----------



## DiveCon (Apr 1, 2009)

diana said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


funny how this thread turned
LOL


----------



## eots (Apr 1, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJs54953Jak]YouTube - Under Water Beer Drinking[/ame]


----------



## DiveCon (Apr 1, 2009)

eots said:


> YouTube - Under Water Beer Drinking


good thing they arent very deep


----------



## eots (Apr 2, 2009)

being naced is fun..you get use to it like booze or drugs and its all good fun...and the bubbles really do sound like bells ..you can come uo just a few feet sometimes and the effects are quicky gone.. its very strange


----------



## DiveCon (Apr 2, 2009)

eots said:


> being naced is fun..you get use to it like booze or drugs and its all good fun...and the bubbles really do sound like bells ..you can come uo just a few feet sometimes and the effects are quicky gone.. its very strange


but the effects of alchohol at depth are magnified
its not wise to dive drunk, or to drink while diving


do i know people that have and didnt get hurt? yes.

still, its not wise to do


----------



## eots (Apr 2, 2009)

I have this in book form...interesting if your into it..my favorite part is the deep dive tables where it gets to 1000 ft there is a footnote ..warning dives to 10000 ft or more can cause permanent personality changes WTF ??..wonder who the lucky navy diver guinea pig was they discovered that through ...


U.S NAVY DIVE MANUAL

http://www.coralspringsscuba.com/usn/Contents.pdf


----------



## kakarothusain (Apr 30, 2009)

Popular Mechanics is a service magazine covering a variety of information on home improvement, automotive needs, electronics, computers, telecommunications and i dont thing that it was wrong in any matter.


----------



## eots (Apr 30, 2009)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3uQI2msoDA[/ame]


----------



## C-101 (May 4, 2009)

9/11 Inside Job said:
			
		

> Lets see these alleged 3,847 youtube.videos



Be careful what you wish for.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8v8ai2-S0Q&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q20NmYGE-T4&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is_qBXqObes&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjaN8NqN8CE&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSQYOq71io8&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8B-AvIt6V4&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtyzsSL3Gaw&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySHgiUxnLC0&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVbw4tbq7jM&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j_c1tPMiG0&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwFGLIsIBuM&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9Mhhvl7vWk&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1g3OAOiOP0&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTNRkb7AaQk&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tacYjsS-g6k&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLShZOvxVe4&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tp8T2s96pg&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7iX_jHg_Uo&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kSq663m0G8&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBHi9CbrNf4&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhHzMttUKO0&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFW_T2QfjgY&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh8hErn2UZU&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTXFnAIP6A0&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XebFE_7N-Dk&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMZ-nkYr46w&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IergOYj63oE&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jir7yWTroN8&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDXNDZDATLg&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb-OFhxvEo8&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjcAoc3ZPwY&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsUYhrXonXQ&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=989BqQ0WF2A&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ikRc4ER2xY&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xjBbqRJT7Q&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhC3ElWQkEc&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1wQ2BJsgx0&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWpC_1WP8do&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z96MZOZyilo&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs5jWvu4tR8&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKcPA4heOOQ&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YXzjAKJQOg&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJpsxQ3UI30&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MRSr1MnFuk&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRCTkSJOViY&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3uq9zFT6xA&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6fe9YlHQwA&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAd_9zeldkI&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hBDXB6cifo&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lhwCM_dicc&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZrlNw-31R8&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkivdEGph9A&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgjWU6jXrdc&feature=channel_page[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43F54hR0NW8&feature=channel_page[/ame]

Let me know when you have disproved all these videos.

There's only about fifty of them, so it shouldn't take you that long.

The remaining 3800 or so videos will come once you get through these first 50 or so.


----------



## eots (May 4, 2009)

ya there s a lot of disinformation that that calls itself debunking ... that offers explanations that are ludicrous  and very often not in compliance with the official story or NIST or 9/11 commission and omits other key information....it is the facts and information contained in the videos  that is the issue ..not the volume of so called debunking nonsense you can find...pick 3 and and compare information and facts ...because they are all simply ridiculous and debunk nothing


----------



## DiveCon (May 4, 2009)

eots said:


> ya there s a lot of disinformation that that calls itself debunking ... that offers explanations that are ludicrous  and very often not in compliance with the official story or NIST or 9/11 commission and omits other key information....it is the facts and information contained in the videos  that is the issue ..not the volume of so called debunking nonsense you can find...pick 3 and and compare information and facts ...because they are all simply ridiculous and debunk nothing


did you actually watch any of them?


----------



## C-101 (May 4, 2009)

eots said:


> ya there s a lot of disinformation that that calls itself debunking ... that offers explanations that are ludicrous  and very often not in compliance with the official story or NIST or 9/11 commission and omits other key information....it is the facts and information contained in the videos  that is the issue ..not the volume of so called debunking nonsense you can find...pick 3 and and compare information and facts ...because they are all simply ridiculous and debunk nothing


That was my point in posting all those videos.  They are all different and they all point out various facts which "truthers" love to ignore.

Remember, it is the "truthers" that are making all allegations in this argument and it is up to them to address flaws in their argument no matter what their opinion is of the source.

Simply labeling 50 videos as "disinformation" was something I expected from at least one of you guys and further demonstrates that your side is not interested in the truth because:

A)  The space of time between my post and your post is around 30 minutes which isn't even enough time to view the majority of the videos let alone every video.

B)  That time may be even shorter depending upon when you noticed my post.

C)  You could have not effectively analyzed and debunked every video I posted in less than a half hour.

D)  Your failure to even mention one video that is wrong and proving why is disinformation in of itself.


----------



## DiveCon (May 4, 2009)

C-101 said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > ya there s a lot of disinformation that that calls itself debunking ... that offers explanations that are ludicrous  and very often not in compliance with the official story or NIST or 9/11 commission and omits other key information....it is the facts and information contained in the videos  that is the issue ..not the volume of so called debunking nonsense you can find...pick 3 and and compare information and facts ...because they are all simply ridiculous and debunk nothing
> ...


i loved how it exposed the troofer LIES about what Minetta said


----------



## eots (May 5, 2009)

C-101 said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > ya there s a lot of disinformation that that calls itself debunking ... that offers explanations that are ludicrous  and very often not in compliance with the official story or NIST or 9/11 commission and omits other key information....it is the facts and information contained in the videos  that is the issue ..not the volume of so called debunking nonsense you can find...pick 3 and and compare information and facts ...because they are all simply ridiculous and debunk nothing
> ...


----------



## DiveCon (May 5, 2009)

eots said:


> C-101 said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


----------



## eots (May 5, 2009)

Aaron Dykes / JonesReport | June 26, 2007 
Former Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta answered questions from members of 9/11 Truth Seattle.org about his testimony before the 9/11 Commission report.

Mineta says Vice President Cheney was "absolutely" already there when he arrived at approximately 9:25 a.m. in the PEOC (Presidential Emergency Operations Center) bunker on the morning of 9/11. Mineta seemed shocked to learn that the 9/11 Commission Report claimed Cheney had not arrived there until 9:58-- after the Pentagon had been hit, a report that Mineta definitively contradicted. 



Norman Mineta revealed that Lynn Cheney was also in the PEOC bunker already at the time of his arrival, along with a number of other staff.

well there are some problems with the 9/11 commission report timeline and omitted testomony and the fact Cheney and bush would not testify under oath or address the question of these discrepancies.. if this timeline is correct it could only of been a stand down order


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-5PKQTUz5o[/ame]



http://www.jonesreport.com/articles/260607_mineta.html


----------



## eots (May 5, 2009)

this video is a hoax is such photo imaging was available that should a cut out of a airliner-like this the government would of released and it would be case closed its laughable

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8v8ai2-S0Q[/ame]


and these inteligent and informed experts would not be saying this









Major General Albert Stubblebine

*Major General Albert Stubblebine, U.S. Army (ret) &#8211; Former Commanding General of U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command, 1981 - 1984.  Also commanded the U.S. Army&#8217;s Electronic Research and Development Command and the U.S. Army&#8217;s Intelligence School and Center. Former head of Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence. 32-year Army career*. 

Member, Military Intelligence Hall of Fame. 
Video 7/11/06: "One of my experiences in the Army was being in charge of the Army&#8217;s Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence during the Cold War.  I measured pieces of Soviet equipment from photographs. It was my job. I look at the hole in the Pentagon and I look at the size of an airplane that was supposed to have hit the Pentagon. And I said, &#8216;The plane does not fit in that hole&#8217;. So what did hit the Pentagon? What hit it? Where is it? What's going on?" http://www.und 


Editor's note: For more information on the impact at the Pentagon, see Colonel Nelson, Commander Muga, Lt. Col. Kwiatkowski, Lt. Col. Latas, Major Rokke, Capt. Wittenberg, Capt. Davis, Barbara Honegger, April Gallop, Colonel Bunel, and Steve DeChiaro. 




[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOtnvXMsWOo[/ame]



*
Lt. Col. Karen U. Kwiatkowski, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) &#8211; Former Political-Military Affairs Officer in the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Also served on the staff of the Director of the National Security Agency. 20-year Air Force career*.  Member adjunct faculty, Political Science Department, James Madison University.  Instructor, University of Maryland University College and American Public University System.  Author of African Crisis Response Initiative: Past Present and Future (2000) and Expeditionary Air Operations in Africa: Challenges and Solutions (2001). 


*Contributor to 9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out 8/23/06:  Account of Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski, Pentagon employee and eyewitness to the events at the Pentagon on 9/11*.  "I believe the Commission failed to deeply examine the topic at hand, failed to apply scientific rigor to its assessment of events leading up to and including 9/11, failed to produce a believable and unbiased summary of what happened, failed to fully examine why it happened, and even failed to include a set of unanswered questions for future research. ... 

It is as a scientist that I have the most trouble with the official government conspiracy theory, mainly because it does not satisfy the rules of probability or physics.  The collapses of the World Trade Center buildings clearly violate the laws of probability and physics. ... 

There was a dearth of visible debris on the relatively unmarked [Pentagon] lawn, where I stood only minutes after the impact.  Beyond this strange absence of airliner debris, there was no sign of the kind of damage to the Pentagon structure one would expect from the impact of a large airliner. This visible evidence or lack thereof may also have been apparent to the secretary of defense [Donald Rumsfeld], who in an unfortunate slip of the tongue referred to the aircraft that slammed into the Pentagon as a "missile". ... 

I saw nothing of significance at the point of impact - no airplane metal or cargo debris was blowing on the lawn in front of the damaged building as smoke billowed from within the Pentagon. ... all of us staring at the Pentagon that morning were indeed looking for such debris, but what we expected to see was not evident. 

The same is true with regard to the kind of damage we expected. ... But I did not see this kind of damage. Rather, the facade had a rather small hole, no larger than 20 feet in diameter. Although this facade later collapsed, it remained standing for 30 or 40 minutes, with the roof line remaining relatively straight.  

The scene, in short, was not what I would have expected from a strike by a large jetliner. It was, however, exactly what one would expect if a missile had struck the Pentagon. ... 

More information is certainly needed regarding the events of 9/11 and the events leading up to that terrible day."

http://patriotsquestion911.com/


----------



## eots (May 5, 2009)

lets see that debunkig molten steel NIST story holds up under questioning



[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9qEIlNVl5s[/ame]


----------



## eots (May 5, 2009)

*PULL IT*

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mvDcgf3x3I[/ame]


----------



## DiveCon (May 5, 2009)

eots said:


> Aaron Dykes / JonesReport | June 26, 2007
> Former Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta answered questions from members of 9/11 Truth Seattle.org about his testimony before the 9/11 Commission report.
> 
> Mineta says Vice President Cheney was "absolutely" already there when he arrived at approximately 9:25 a.m. in the PEOC (Presidential Emergency Operations Center) bunker on the morning of 9/11. Mineta seemed shocked to learn that the 9/11 Commission Report claimed Cheney had not arrived there until 9:58-- after the Pentagon had been hit, a report that Mineta definitively contradicted.
> ...


more lies from a troofer site
 another FAIL by eots


----------



## DiveCon (May 5, 2009)

eots said:


> *PULL IT*
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mvDcgf3x3I


ROFLMAO
you just keep up with the lies


----------



## eots (May 5, 2009)

thats your big debunk..just write..lies...ya big rebuttle loser


----------



## DiveCon (May 5, 2009)

eots said:


> thats your big debunk..just write..lies...ya big rebuttle loser


what you posted didnt debunk anything
except in your weak mind


----------



## eots (May 5, 2009)

Not much for details are you diveconman


----------



## DiveCon (May 5, 2009)

eots said:


> Not much for details are you diveconman


why should i waste my time looking up details you will ignore?
you have shown over and over what a fucking alex jones dupe you are


----------



## eots (May 6, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > Not much for details are you diveconman
> ...



don't pretend you do anything but make unsubstantiated denials and then give lame excuses for doing so



[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3151MqXu52s[/ame]


----------



## RetiredGySgt (May 6, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



This from the guy that cuts and pastes the same crap OVER and OVER. And even when proven to be wrong refuses to admit it. Reminds us again dumb ass how Thermite was used to cut Vertical Supports.


----------



## eots (May 6, 2009)

RetiredGySgt said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



So rgs if the fires where so intense how did these survivors stand at the impact point ?
and why do the flames appear so much more intense in the NIST than the same photos   broadcast from europe do you think Nist enhanced the flames or did the BBC reduce them
its the same still...so whats going on ?


----------



## DiveCon (May 6, 2009)

eots said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


if you had the building wired why would you bother flying airlines into them and risk disrupting the wiring??
why not just say Al Qaeda had infiltrated the buildings security and planted the explosives?


----------



## eots (May 16, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



I Could Only  surmise as to all  of their reasons.. but all-CIA-duh infiltrating the building to that extent may of been a harder sell ..as would be living it could happen at the pentagon and apparent other targets  at multiple locations...and the psychological impact and visual of the planes and collapse was important for this psyop and the tag line  9/11.. the date was no accident


----------



## DiveCon (May 16, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


of course it wasnt
it was a terrorist attack, not an accident
it was PLANNED


----------

