# Free mental health treatment for gun enthusiasts



## Otis Mayfield (Dec 29, 2021)

Lyndon McLeod aka Roman McClay: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
					

Lyndon James McLeod was named as the active shooter In Denver and Lakewood, Colorado.




					heavy.com
				





Guy loses his mind, kills 4 people. 

So why don't we provide free government sponsored mental health care to mentally ill gun enthusiasts. 

If the psychiatrist says they're too crazy for guns, they don't get to have access to guns anymore.

This would be a small group of people. The decision of the psychiatrist can be appealed.

What do you think?


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## hjmick (Dec 29, 2021)

How do you think that would work? How do you intend to have a person evaluated? Does your plan have every citizen undergoing psychiatric evaluation and the expense of the taxpayer? Only people who choose to exercise a Constitutionally protected right?

You're going to need more specifics before any discussion can begin...


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## Rye Catcher (Dec 29, 2021)

But, but, but A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, *the right of the people to keep and bear Arms*, shall not be infringed.



*SARCASM ALERT*


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## BlackSand (Dec 29, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> ...
> 
> If the psychiatrist says they're too crazy for guns, they don't get to have access to guns anymore.
> This would be a small group of people. The decision of the psychiatrist can be appealed.
> ...


.

I have a Bachelor of Science in Psychology and say you are too crazy to talk ...
So you can kiss your Constitutionally Protected Right to Free Speech goodbye, and just shut the fuck up ... 

Sounds fair, I guess.

.​


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Dec 29, 2021)

BlackSand said:


> .
> 
> I have a Bachelor of Science in Psychology and say you are too crazy to talk ...
> So you can kiss your Constitutionally Protected Right to Free Speech goodbye, and just shut the fuck up ...
> ...


Well there is some crazy on parade....


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## BlackSand (Dec 29, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Well there is some crazy on parade....


.

Every time you Loons open your mouth, and exercise your Right to Full Retard ...  

.​


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## Peace (Dec 29, 2021)

No, because it could be weaponize by any political party to revoke someone right to bear arms…

This idea is as stupid as having the no-fly list to judge if someone constitutional right should be voided.


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## Canon Shooter (Dec 29, 2021)

I don't like how you think or what you say.

So, despite the fact that you have the right to think and say what you want, let's have you examined by a psychiatrist so he can determine if how you think and what you say are crazy. If the psychiatrist says you're too crazy to be allowed to share your beliefs, you're no longer allowed to speak.

I figure this would apply to only a small group of people and, hey, you can always appeal the decision of the psychiatrist.

Sound good?


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## Mikeoxenormous (Dec 29, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Lyndon McLeod aka Roman McClay: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
> 
> 
> Lyndon James McLeod was named as the active shooter In Denver and Lakewood, Colorado.
> ...


Why dont we provide free mental health care to anyone who is gay?  Because homosexuality is insane.
Why dont we provide free mental health care to anyone who voted for Joe Biteme, an known racist who called black kids roaches and black men predators?
Shall we continue to play the game?


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Dec 29, 2021)

Canon Shooter said:


> If the psychiatrist says you're too crazy to be allowed to share your beliefs, you're no longer allowed to speak.


Slippery slope nonsense. 

This is why happy meals are $55 now, and people are marrying their dogs.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Dec 29, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> So why don't we provide free government sponsored mental health care to mentally ill gun enthusiasts.


How about, to anyone and everyone? Not forced, just voluntary. Make it accessible and available. Even the craziest people sometimes have moments of clarity, guilt, etc.


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## Concerned American (Dec 29, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Lyndon McLeod aka Roman McClay: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
> 
> 
> Lyndon James McLeod was named as the active shooter In Denver and Lakewood, Colorado.
> ...


Why limit it to gun enthusiasts.  I think you would be a fine candidate for it--along with anyone who voted for sleepy joe.  Maybe we could limit their ability to vote because they are mentally incompetent.


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## okfine (Dec 29, 2021)

andaronjim said:


> Why dont we provide free mental health care to anyone who is gay?  Because homosexuality is insane.
> Why dont we provide free mental health care to anyone who voted for Joe Biteme, an known racist who called black kids roaches and black men predators?
> Shall we continue to play the game?


Are you seeking therapy?


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## Otis Mayfield (Dec 29, 2021)

*There are specific jobs that require for the applicant to be whole mentally. These include:*


*Psychiatry. You cannot treat people if you are sick.*
*Medical doctor. You must be well placed mentally to take care of others.*
*Teacher. A teacher deals with younger people mostly and must therefore be very stable to handle them.*
*Lawyer. A defendant may plead insanity but not a lawyer.*
*A detective. Most criminals are mentally sick, so, the detective has to be very strong.*
*An athlete. If you are going to perform well, you must not only pass a doping test but also a mental health test.*
*A food tester.*
*Law enforcement*
*Nuclear power plant employment*
*Executive employment in many fortune 500 companies use psych evals as an integral part of the selection process.*
*Evals are used in penal institutions for classification and assignment. This is an important part of the reception process.*
*The military conducts preliminary evals in many places.*
*In general, any civil service position which allows access to classified information requires a psych eval.*









						What jobs and careers require you to pass a mental health and psychology test?
					

Answer (1 of 4): Psychological testing is often used for jobs with a high stress factor such as law enforcement, the medical field, aviation or firefighting. While this is not a fail-proof method to determine a person’s ability to work under high stress it can help help a company hire more suitab...




					www.quora.com
				




It's a great responsibility to own a gun. If those around you, family, school, thing you're nutts, shouldn't there be a way for you to get treatment?

Especially if you're a gun owner?


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## marvin martian (Dec 29, 2021)

Rye Catcher said:


> But, but, but A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, *the right of the people to keep and bear Arms*, shall not be infringed.
> 
> 
> 
> *SARCASM ALERT*



Why are our civil rights sarcastic to you?


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## Mikeoxenormous (Dec 29, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> *There are specific jobs that require for the applicant to be whole mentally. These include:*
> 
> 
> *Psychiatry. You cannot treat people if you are sick.*
> ...


So this person should be required to have a mental examination?


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## BlackSand (Dec 29, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> It's a great responsibility to own a gun. If those around you, family, school, thing you're nutts, shouldn't there be a way for you to get treatment?
> Especially if you're a gun owner?


.

It's already against the law to purchase/possess a firearm if you have been declared insane,
incompetent, or involuntarily committed to a facility, you ignorant twat ...  

Of course, that doesn't mean you cannot lie on the questionnaire like Hunter Biden did ...
Nor does it support the idea the background checks are worth a fuck either.

.​


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Dec 29, 2021)

BlackSand said:


> .
> 
> It's already against the law to purchase/possess a firearm if you have been declared insane,
> incompetent, or involuntarily committed to a facility, you ignorant twat ...
> ...


Yes dumbass, he is suggesting more people be diagnosed. Welcome to post #1 of the thread, please pay attention and try to keep up.


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## BlackSand (Dec 29, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Yes dumbass, he is suggesting more people be diagnosed. Welcome to post #1 of the thread, please pay attention and try to keep up.


.

Keep up?
You nit-wits are ten steps behind.
The services are there, the laws are in place, but that doesn't mean that someone won't be missed by either, or both.

You goof-wads try to empower the federal government more and more,
with knee-jerk bullshit trying to Monday Morning Quarterback the whole country and ignore the Constitution.
The post you quoted above specifically states what a clusterfuck the government's efforts already are.

They keep screwing up and you keep asking them to do more ... 
It's why we don't trust your retarded ass.

.​


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Dec 29, 2021)

BlackSand said:


> The services are there, the laws are in place, but that doesn't mean that someone won't be missed by either, or both.


Yes, we know that. That's why an extra effort is being suggested.

Wow, still at square one. Dude, we can't spend the whole thread trying to hep along the slow kids. Go catch up.


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## Otis Mayfield (Dec 29, 2021)

In order for you to get sent to psych eval, you'd need to have your parents, school, place of work talk to police. The police would then decide if there was a good enough case. If the police agree they would refer you to the program. The program would screen people out so that only the crazy were admitted.

Or something like that. It wouldn't be a trivial thing to get sent to psych eval. 

And it would save lives.


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## Mikeoxenormous (Dec 29, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> In order for you to get sent to psych eval, you'd need to have your parents, school, place of work talk to police. The police would then decide if there was a good enough case. If the police agree they would refer you to the program. The program would screen people out so that only the crazy were admitted.
> 
> Or something like that. It wouldn't be a trivial thing to get sent to psych eval.
> 
> And it would save lives.


Sandy Hook, police were notified that the boy had mental issues, was allowed to murder children.

Parkland, police were notified that the boy had mental issues, was allowed to murder children.

Seems that the government keeps failing to do what it is paid to do, protect its citizens.  Let teachers carry their own weapons, and soon the massacres would go away.
My daughter is a legal CCP holder, there hasnt been a single incident where she works.


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## BlackSand (Dec 29, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Yes, we know that. That's why an extra effort is being suggested.
> 
> Wow, still at square one. Dude, we can't spend the whole thread trying to hep along the slow kids. Go catch up.


.

Sweetie, it's not that I don't understand what you want ... Just that you aren't going to get it ... 


.​


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## Anathema (Dec 29, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> So why don't we provide free government sponsored mental health care to mentally ill gun enthusiasts.
> 
> *If the psychiatrist says they're too crazy for guns, they don't get to have access to guns anymore*.
> 
> ...


The section I bolder is the reason it would never work. No gun owner in America is going to attend any sort of “session” with someone who has been given the power to disarm them. Not one. Not ever.


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## RetiredGySgt (Dec 29, 2021)

One does not have to pass a test to exersize a right. In Fact that is Unconstitutional.


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## 2aguy (Dec 29, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Lyndon McLeod aka Roman McClay: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
> 
> 
> Lyndon James McLeod was named as the active shooter In Denver and Lakewood, Colorado.
> ...





The ones who need mental health treatment are the democrats who keep releasing known, violent killers.......

Only the insane would bitch about gun violence, then keep releasing violent gun criminals...

*Seattle, Washington’s most populous city, had a record number of drive-by shootings in 2021. By July, the city’s drive-by shootings had doubled over the year before.*
*
It’s a problem.

So why are Washington Democrats offering up a bill in the state legislature to lower the penalties for drive-by shootings? Well, there’s woke and then there’s just plain stupid. Washington state Democrats are vying to become the best stupid they can be, bless ’em.

Currently, Washington law holds that a drive-by shooter should get an aggravated enhancement if he is arrested and prosecuted—and that’s a big if. Such an enhancement could land a drive-by murderer a life prison sentence.
*
*But under a bill proposed for the upcoming Washington state legislature by white, woke ex-con state Rep. Tarra Simmons and her co-sponsor David Hackney, the reduction in penalties is a move toward “racial equity.” That’s right, drive-by shooting prosecutorial outcomes are racist. Never mind all the black and brown people who are the disproportionate victims of drive-by shootings.*









						Washington State Democrats Want Decreased Penalties for Drive-By Shooters Because... Aw, You Guessed
					

In July, 17-year-old Tay’Zauhn Burns-Miller’s life was snuffed out by a drive-by murderer.  Just days before, Seattle was riven by a swarm of shootings in which six people were mowed down...




					pjmedia.com


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## Rye Catcher (Dec 29, 2021)

marvin martian said:


> Why are our civil rights sarcastic to you?


*Do to the fact that you are not very bright, I'll try to write a simple answer to your dumb question.*

*The sarcasm was based on this part of the 2nd A.:

"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms*, *shall not be infringed.

Some of the people are infringed and denied the right to keep and bear arms: *

*Those who have a civil commitment as a danger to themselves or others;*
*Those convicted of violent crimes, i.e. felonies and misdemeanors;*
*Those who have a dishonorable discharge from our armed forces;*
*Anyone to bring a gun or other weapon to a civil or criminal courtroom, and in most states in any public building.*


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## Rye Catcher (Dec 29, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> One does not have to pass a test to exersize a right. In Fact that is Unconstitutional.


Please post the article, section and clause in COTUS to prove your claim; or, STFU.


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## RetiredGySgt (Dec 29, 2021)

Rye Catcher said:


> Please post the article, section and clause in COTUS to prove your claim; or, STFU.


Supreme Court ruling on a test to vote remember that one?


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## Rye Catcher (Dec 29, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Supreme Court ruling on a test to vote remember that one?


No bozo, that is not anywhere in the Constitution.


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## Rye Catcher (Dec 29, 2021)

Rye Catcher said:


> No bozo, that is not anywhere in the Constitution.


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## Jarlaxle (Dec 30, 2021)

Rye Catcher said:


> No bozo, that is not anywhere in the Constitution.


Talking to yourself again, dude?


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> So why don't we provide free government sponsored mental health care to mentally ill gun enthusiasts.


The mental illness is conservativism, not being a gun enthusiast.


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## Bob Blaylock (Dec 30, 2021)

hjmick said:


> How do you think that would work? How do you intend to have a person evaluated? Does your plan have every citizen undergoing psychiatric evaluation and the expense of the taxpayer? Only people who choose to exercise a Constitutionally protected right?
> 
> You're going to need more specifics before any discussion can begin...



  My guess is that Otis Mayfield intends to look to the Союз Советских Социалистических Республик for guidance.  Desiring to exercise one's Second Amendment rights is to be treated as a form of вялотеку́щая шизофрени́я.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> In order for you to get sent to psych eval, you'd need to have your parents, school, place of work talk to police. The police would then decide if there was a good enough case. If the police agree they would refer you to the program. The program would screen people out so that only the crazy were admitted.
> 
> Or something like that. It wouldn't be a trivial thing to get sent to psych eval.
> 
> And it would save lives.


There needs to be a Second Amendment Satire sub-sub forum, that’s where this belongs, assuming you’re not serious.

Otherwise, you should know this will never happen – and appropriately so; such a ‘program’ would be a violation of the Second, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, and Fourteenth Amendments to the Constitution.


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## NewsVine_Mariyam (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Lyndon McLeod aka Roman McClay: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
> 
> 
> Lyndon James McLeod was named as the active shooter In Denver and Lakewood, Colorado.
> ...


So the photos above are why the female officer hesitated and ended up getting shot?

Oh and it's way more than just "a few"


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## NewsVine_Mariyam (Dec 30, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> How about, to anyone and everyone? Not forced, just voluntary. Make it accessible and available. Even the craziest people sometimes have moments of clarity, guilt, etc.


You know that if you go on record as being troubled (anxious, depressed, worried, etc.) that someone, somewhere will find a way to use that against you and relieve you of your 2nd Amendment rights if they are allowed to do so.


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## NewsVine_Mariyam (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> In general, any civil service position which allows access to classified information requires a psych eval.


My experience has been that they're not so much interested in whether you're 'crazy' or not but if you're financially stable with no huge debts.  They're concerned with you possibly being persuaded or coerced into stealing and selling classified and secret information in exchange for having said debt forgiven.


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## fncceo (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Lyndon McLeod aka Roman McClay: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
> 
> 
> Lyndon James McLeod was named as the active shooter In Denver and Lakewood, Colorado.
> ...



I'd be willing to accept this if we put the same program in place for every single one of the Constitutional Rights ... no bill of mental health, no rights.


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## Otis Mayfield (Dec 30, 2021)

fncceo said:


> I'd be willing to accept this if we put the same program in place for every single one of the Constitutional Rights ... no bill of mental health, no rights.



lol

If you're crazy, and you say crazy things, who cares?

If you're crazy, take your gun and kill tattooists, that's a problem.


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## Blues Man (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Lyndon McLeod aka Roman McClay: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
> 
> 
> Lyndon James McLeod was named as the active shooter In Denver and Lakewood, Colorado.
> ...


It's already part of federal gun laws that those adjudicated to be mentally ill are prohibited from owning guns


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## Otis Mayfield (Dec 30, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> It's already part of federal gun laws that those adjudicated to be mentally ill are prohibited from owning guns



That's true.

The only thing I would add is that parents, school or place of work could report you to police. The police would look into it and see if there was evidence that you were crazy. If the cops think you're crazy too, they could put you in the program where you receive free mental health care.

It could even be that the psychiatrist says that you can get your guns back as long as you agree to take your meds.


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## Mikeoxenormous (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> lol
> 
> If you're crazy, and you say crazy things, who cares?
> 
> If you're crazy, take your gun and kill tattooists, that's a problem.


Otis here is a product of progressive indoctrination, because he doesnt believe a baby should be protected inside or outside the womb, then he wonders why some progressive people go out and murder others.  It all starts with the definition of "The Sanctity of Life".  Too many people dont give a shit about life, which is why they murder others...


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## M14 Shooter (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> If the psychiatrist says they're too crazy for guns, they don't get to have access to guns anymore.
> This would be a small group of people. The decision of the psychiatrist can be appealed.
> What do you think?


Due process requires the state take their case to a court before a right can be removed.
You propose exactly the opposite.
So...  no.


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## westwall (Dec 30, 2021)

marvin martian said:


> Why are our civil rights sarcastic to you?





Because he's a fascist.


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## M14 Shooter (Dec 30, 2021)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> The mental illness is conservativism, not being a gun enthusiast.


Says the known liar.


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## Smokin' OP (Dec 30, 2021)

In December 2016, The Social Security Administration finalized President Barack Obama’s rule that required the SSA to identify and report to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) individuals unable to work because of severe mental impairment and can't manage their own Social Security financial benefits. The thought was that those certain Social Security recipients could pose a danger to themselves or others and should not be able to buy guns.

This regulation was first proposed in the summer of 2015 and finalized it in December 2016, Obama's last full month in office.

On February 28, 2017, within two months of taking office, Trump repealed that restriction. It was one of the few times he didn’t have the media in the Oval Office so after signing something he could hold it up for all to see.

This was done quietly.

Earlier in February, the GOP led House had also voted to reverses the SSA rule on reporting possibly dangerous individuals to NICS that had been signed by George W. Bush after the Virginia Tech massacre to ensure that individuals who are deemed unqualified to possess guns due to mental health or other reasons could be easily identified through NICS.

Acting White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney did his job in removing any responsibility from the president’s rhetoric.
_We need to figure out how to kind of create less of those kinds of people as a society and not trying to figure out who gets blamed going into the next election.”

"There's no benefit here to trying to make this a political issue. This is a social issue."

Mulvaney called the shooters "crazy people" who "should not be able to get guns. Sick people who are intent on doing things like this should not be able to buy guns legally."_


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## M14 Shooter (Dec 30, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> In December 2016, The Social Security Administration finalized President Barack Obama’s rule that required the SSA to identify and report to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) individuals unable to work because of severe mental impairment and can't manage their own Social Security financial benefits. The thought was that those certain Social Security recipients could pose a danger to themselves or others and should not be able to buy guns.


Yes.   And this violates the constitution in several ways.
Thus, Trump rightfully threw it out.


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## Smokin' OP (Dec 30, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> Yes.   And this violates the constitution in several ways.
> Thus, Trump rightfully threw it out.


No, it doesn't.
Not even once.
How does it violate the constitution?


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## M14 Shooter (Dec 30, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> No, it doesn't.
> Not even once.


Glad to see you aren't afraid to put your ignorance on display, yet again.


Smokin' OP said:


> How does it violate the constitution?


5th Amendment - due process.


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## M14 Shooter (Dec 30, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> No, it doesn't.
> Not even once.
> How does it violate the constitution?


Speaking of your ignorance...
Still warting for your response:




__





						My annual report on the 'assault weapon' scourge
					

Yes, I did, moron.  ^^^^ This is a lie. You are fully aware of the fact you cannot cite the post where you made such a demonstration, or copy/paste the text to that effect.



					www.usmessageboard.com


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## Otis Mayfield (Dec 30, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> Due process requires the state take their case to a court before a right can be removed.
> You propose exactly the opposite.
> So...  no.




So parents, school, or place of work report the suspect to police.

Police investigate, decide the guy is too crazy to have guns.

Police refer him to the program. If the nutt agrees to go to the program, he receives free mental health care.

If he refuses, a judge can order him to go. (There's your due process.)

It will save tattooists lives.


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## Smokin' OP (Dec 30, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> Glad to see you aren't afraid to put your ignorance on display, yet again.


That would be you, moron.


M14 Shooter said:


> 5th Amendment - due process.


WTF?
You name one and *that *is wrong.

They had 'due process' with a Social Security judge.


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## M14 Shooter (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> So parents, school, or place of work report the suspect to police.


Your expectedly ignoranrt and dishonest response does nothign to change the fact Obama's order violated the 5th Amendment.


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## Smokin' OP (Dec 30, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> Speaking of your ignorance...
> Still warting for your response:
> 
> 
> ...


It's been days, you moron.
I'm done arguing with an idiot, about hunting rifles.
Go ahead, hunt with an AR-15 I don't give a fuck.


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## M14 Shooter (Dec 30, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> They had 'due process' with a Social Security judge.


Your expectedly ignoranrt and dishonest response does nothing to change the fact Obama's order violated the 5th Amendment.


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## M14 Shooter (Dec 30, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> It's been days, you moron.
> I'm done arguing with an idiot, about hunting rifles.


It has.  Because you know you were wrong and hoped no one would notice you running away.


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## Smokin' OP (Dec 30, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> Your expectedly ignoranrt and dishonest response does nothing to change the fact Obama's order violated the 5th Amendment.


AGAIN, you're FOS, as usual.
HOW?


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## Mikeoxenormous (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> So parents, school, or place of work report the suspect to police.
> 
> Police investigate, decide the guy is too crazy to have guns.
> 
> ...











						FBI: Police were told Sandy Hook shooter threatened to kill mom, students
					

One person told investigators they overheard Adam Lanza say he "planned to kill his mother and children at Sandy Hook in Newtown, Connecticut"




					www.cbsnews.com
				








The problem you have is that you keep relying on the worthless government to do something, yet both incidents could of been avoided but thanks to the brown turd Obammy, the police couldnt do anything until it was too late.









						Federal Obama-era policies helped keep Parkland shooter off police radar and out of jail
					

Top-down edicts from the feds may have allowed Nikolas Cruz to remain free to commit the atrocities he did.




					conventionofstates.com
				





Thanks Obama...


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## M14 Shooter (Dec 30, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> AGAIN, you're FOS, as usual


^^^^
This is a lie


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## Smokin' OP (Dec 30, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> It has.  Because you know you were wrong and hoped no one would notice you running away.


You can't fix stupid, you're just as FOS, as you are on the 5th amendment.
Same stupid response.


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## M14 Shooter (Dec 30, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> HOW?


These people were not adjucated mentally infirm; under federal law, they have the right to own a gun
As such, the The President cannot constitutionally simply add their names to the list of people who cannot own a gun.
If you were not intentionally ignorant and dishonest, you'd know this.


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## M14 Shooter (Dec 30, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> You can't fix stupid, you're just as FOS, as you are on the 5th amendment.
> Same stupid response.


^^^^
This is a lie


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## M14 Shooter (Dec 30, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> You can't fix stupid, you're just as FOS, as you are on the 5th amendment.
> Same stupid response.


Nothing here changes the fact you knew you were wrong and hoped no one would notice you running away.


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## SmokeALib (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> That's true.
> 
> The only thing I would add is that parents, school or place of work could report you to police. The police would look into it and see if there was evidence that you were crazy. If the cops think you're crazy too, they could put you in the program where you receive free mental health care.
> 
> It could even be that the psychiatrist says that you can get your guns back as long as you agree to take your meds.


Ah, the defunded police are already broke. Resources already stretched. We all know the reasons why. You were saying....


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## Smokin' OP (Dec 30, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> ^^^^
> This is a lie


You don't know the 5th amendment dumbass.
Trump U. constitutional 'law degree.


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## M14 Shooter (Dec 30, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> You don't know the 5th amendment dumbass.
> Trump U. constitutional 'law degree.


Your expectedly ignorant and dishonest response does nothing to change the fact Obama's order violated the 5th Amendment.


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## Cellblock2429 (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Lyndon McLeod aka Roman McClay: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
> 
> 
> Lyndon James McLeod was named as the active shooter In Denver and Lakewood, Colorado.
> ...


/----/ As soon as democRATs provide mental health services for this feak


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## Smokin' OP (Dec 30, 2021)

andaronjim said:


> FBI: Police were told Sandy Hook shooter threatened to kill mom, students
> 
> 
> One person told investigators they overheard Adam Lanza say he "planned to kill his mother and children at Sandy Hook in Newtown, Connecticut"
> ...


Ignoring Trump let the crazy come out.

May 8 2019
The U.S. was shaken by two mass shootings last weekend that claimed at least 31 lives and injured dozens.

Saturday's attack in El Paso, Texas, was one of the most deadly in the country's history, where 22 people were killed and as many more wounded in a shooting at a shopping mall.

The suspect, Patrick Crusius, 21, is a white male from Allen, Texas -- almost 700 miles away.

Another massacre in Dayton, Ohio followed just 13 hours after Texas. Nine victims were killed along with the lone suspect who was shot dead by local police. More than a dozen others were wounded.

The 24-year-old suspect, Connor Betts, from Ohio.

Stephen Paddock, a 54-year-old white man, opened gunfire at a concert from the 32nd floor of a hotel, killing 58 people in the city in 2017.

A white shooter, Devin Patrick Kelley, opened fire on a small church in Sutherland Springs claiming 25 lives and an unborn child.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Dec 30, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> Your expectedly ignorant and dishonest response does nothing to change the fact Obama's order violated the 5th Amendment.


You're a moron, you keep saying that with no proof.
Just like a Trumptard.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Dec 30, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> Ignoring Trump let the crazy come out.
> May 8 2019
> The U.S. was shaken by two mass shootings last weekend that claimed at least 31 lives and injured dozens.


Your expectedly ignorant and dishonest response does nothing to change the fact Obama's order violated the 5th Amendment.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Dec 30, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> You're a moron, you keep saying that with no proof.


^^^
A statement of ignorance and dishonesty.
See post #62.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Dec 30, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> These people were not adjucated mentally infirm; under federal law, they have the right to own a gun
> As such, the The President cannot constitutionally simply add their names to the list of people who cannot own a gun.
> If you were not intentionally ignorant and dishonest, you'd know this.


HOLY FUCK, what a retard.

WTf?
Why do think their claim for SSI was for?
Mental fucking, illness, like you, idiot.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Dec 30, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> ^^^
> A statement of ignorance and dishonesty.
> See post #62


^^^^^^Retard.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Dec 30, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> HOLY FUCK, what a retard.


Noted here is your absence of a meaningful, cogent response - not because of your usual inability to present once, but because one does not exist.


----------



## Mac-7 (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> What do you think?


I think its a stupid idea


----------



## M14 Shooter (Dec 30, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> ^^^^^^Retard.


^^^
A statement of ignorance and dishonesty.


----------



## Otis Mayfield (Dec 30, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> Your expectedly ignoranrt and dishonest response does nothign to change the fact Obama's order violated the 5th Amendment.



Obama?

Who's talking about Obama?

Black man bad?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Obama?
> Who's talking about Obama?


Follow the responses back, and you'll see who brought up Obama.


----------



## Rye Catcher (Dec 30, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> One does not have to pass a test to exersize a right. In Fact that is Unconstitutional.


"nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, *without due process of law*; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


----------



## marvin martian (Dec 30, 2021)

Rye Catcher said:


> *Do *to the fact that you are not very bright,



Hahahahahaha! Oh boy, this one is a keeper!


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Dec 30, 2021)

Rye Catcher said:


> "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, *without due process of law*; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


Again retard you can not force a person to take a test to get a right.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Dec 30, 2021)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> The mental illness is conservativism, not being a gun enthusiast.



  The Russians had a name for it.  вялотеку́щая шизофрени́я.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Dec 30, 2021)

Rye Catcher said:


> "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, *without due process of law*; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


Correct.
This means the state has to take its case before a court before it can deprive someone of their rights.


----------



## Otis Mayfield (Dec 30, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> Correct.
> This means the state has to take its case before a court before it can deprive someone of their rights.




There's been at least 2 airline pilots who committed suicide by diving their fully loaded passenger planes into a mountain or ocean.

How much due process would we need to take these pilots jobs away from them so that they couldn't murder dozens of people?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> There's been at least 2 airline pilots who committed suicide by diving their fully loaded passenger planes into a mountain or ocean.
> How much due process would we need to take these pilots jobs away from them so that they couldn't murder dozens of people?


Apples and cinder blocks.
Flying an airliner is not a right, it is a privilege granted by the FAA and the airline.
Both have procedures for this and do not require due process.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> There's been at least 2 airline pilots who committed suicide by diving their fully loaded passenger planes into a mountain or ocean.
> 
> How much due process would we need to take these pilots jobs away from them so that they couldn't murder dozens of people?


Really? American pilots? Name them and link to story.


----------



## Otis Mayfield (Dec 30, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Really? American pilots? Name them and link to story.












						Germanwings crash: Who was co-pilot Andreas Lubitz?
					

What we know about the young German co-pilot whio crashed an airliner into the Alps.



					www.bbc.com
				




Can you find the other on your own?

Took 2 seconds to google it.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Germanwings crash: Who was co-pilot Andreas Lubitz?
> 
> 
> What we know about the young German co-pilot whio crashed an airliner into the Alps.
> ...


I said AMERICAN pilots retard since our rights only apply to citizens of THIS Country.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Germanwings crash: Who was co-pilot Andreas Lubitz?
> 
> 
> What we know about the young German co-pilot whio crashed an airliner into the Alps.
> ...


You cited a German pilot.
He asked for American pilots.


----------



## Otis Mayfield (Dec 30, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> You cited a German pilot.
> He asked for American pilots.



I never said they were American!

lol

How is piloting a plane all that different from owning a gun?

You can do great damage with both, and you have a great responsibility not to do damage.

If you're mentally unfit, your ability to kill dozens of innocents should be taken away.


----------



## Mikeoxenormous (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Obama?
> 
> Who's talking about Obama?
> 
> Black man bad?


I guess you ignored my link about the brown turd and his action that kept the police from keeping the parkland shooter from murdering children...


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> I never said they were American!
> 
> lol
> 
> ...


Our rights are the topic dumb ass. We dont make laws or grant rights to NON Americans.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> I never said they were American!


Which only makes your comparison even more irrelevant.


Otis Mayfield said:


> How is piloting a plane all that different from owning a gun
> You can do great damage with both, and you have a great responsibility not to do damage.
> If you're mentally unfit, your ability to kill dozens of innocents should be taken away.


Apples and cinder blocks.
Flying an airliner is not a right, it is a privilege granted by the FAA and the airline.
Both have procedures for this and do not require due process.-


----------



## Mikeoxenormous (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> I never said they were American!
> 
> lol
> 
> ...


How about a truck on the interstate crashing into many cars?  Or how about a train that goes off the tracks?  Why are you so scared of an inanimate object?
Which one of these is an Assault Rife?


----------



## Otis Mayfield (Dec 30, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Our rights are the topic dumb ass. We dont make laws or grant rights to NON Americans.




Taint licker!


Take my hand. I will guide you:









						Suicide by pilot - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				





It's tough being the least retarded guy on this site.


----------



## Mikeoxenormous (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Taint licker!
> 
> 
> Take my hand. I will guide you:
> ...


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> It's tough being the least retarded guy on this site.



  I guess you would know about that.

  But really, you do not need to be so hard on yourself.

  There are at least three or four guys on this site who are even more poorly regarded than you are.


----------



## Blues Man (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> That's true.
> 
> The only thing I would add is that parents, school or place of work could report you to police. The police would look into it and see if there was evidence that you were crazy. If the cops think you're crazy too, they could put you in the program where you receive free mental health care.
> 
> It could even be that the psychiatrist says that you can get your guns back as long as you agree to take your meds.


The last thing you want is cops to have the power to commit people.


----------



## Otis Mayfield (Dec 30, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> The last thing you want is cops to have the power to commit people.



True.

There are safeguards though. It's parents, school or place of work that has to report the guy. And then the cops check into it, just like they do with every other report, to see if it's legit. And then the guy is put in the program. The first thing that happens is the psychiatrist in charge decides if he's legit crazy or was just having a bad day.

And if the guy protests, he can go before a judge for a legal hearing.


----------



## Rye Catcher (Dec 30, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> Correct.
> This means the state has to take its case before a court before it can deprive someone of their rights.


Due Process


M14 Shooter said:


> Correct.
> This means the state has to take its case before a court before it can deprive someone of their rights.


You make stuff up.  









						due process | Definition, Examples, & Facts
					

due process,  a course of legal proceedings according to rules and principles that have been established in a system of jurisprudence for the enforcement and protection of private rights. In each case, due process contemplates an exercise of the powers of government as the law permits and...



					www.britannica.com
				




"The meaning of due process as it relates to substantive enactments and procedural legislation has evolved over decades of controversial interpretation by the Supreme Court. *Today, if a law may reasonably be deemed to promote the public welfare and the means selected bear a reasonable relationship to the legitimate public interest, then the law has met the due process standard. *If the law seeks to regulate a fundamental right, such as the right to travel or the right to vote, then this enactment must meet a stricter judicial scrutiny, known as the compelling interest test. Economic legislation is generally upheld if the state can point to any conceivable public benefit resulting from its enactment.

In United States constitutional law, a Due Process Clause is found in both the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution, which *prohibits arbitrary deprivation of "life, liberty, or property" by the government except as authorized by law*.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Dec 30, 2021)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> You know that if you go on record as being troubled (anxious, depressed, worried, etc.) that someone, somewhere will find a way to use that against you and relieve you of your 2nd Amendment rights if they are allowed to do so.


Actually not.

One cannot be designated a prohibited person unless he has been adjudicated as being mentally ill or committed to a mental institution the consequence of a court order.

That means a mental health professional would need to testify under oath in a court of law that the person in question is not mentally fit to possess a firearm and provide documented evidence in support of that testimony.

Absent such due process, someone cannot be denied possession of a firearm due to mental illness.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Dec 30, 2021)

Rye Catcher said:


> Due Process
> You make stuff up.


You didn't read your own post

*. *If the law seeks to regulate a fundamental right, such as the right to travel or the right to vote, then this enactment must meet a stricter judicial scrutiny, known as the compelling interest test.

Where does this happen?
A court.


----------



## Rye Catcher (Dec 30, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> The last thing you want is cops to have the power to commit people.


True, 5150 of Welfare and Institutions Code allows for Law Enforcement to detain and deliver a person as noted here:


(a) When a person, as a result of a mental health disorder, is a danger to others, or to himself or herself, or gravely disabled, a peace officer, professional person in charge of a facility designated by the county for evaluation and treatment, member of the attending staff, as defined by regulation, of a facility designated by the county for evaluation and treatment, designated members of a mobile crisis team, or professional person designated by the county may, upon probable cause, take, or cause to be taken, the person into custody for a period of up to 72 hours for assessment, evaluation, and crisis intervention, or placement for evaluation and treatment in a facility designated by the county for evaluation and treatment and approved by the State Department of Health Care Services. At a minimum, assessment, as defined in Section 5150.4, and evaluation, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 5008, shall be conducted and provided on an ongoing basis. Crisis intervention, as defined in subdivision (e) of Section 5008, may be provided concurrently with assessment, evaluation, or any other service.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> If the cops think you're crazy too, they could put you in the program where you receive free mental health care.


Which – again – is un-Constitutional.

Law enforcement can only refer a case to a judge to make that determination.

And – yet again – that would require providing the court with evidence and testimony from mental health professionals.


----------



## Rye Catcher (Dec 30, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> You didn't read your own post
> 
> *. *If the law seeks to regulate a fundamental right, such as the right to travel or the right to vote, then this enactment must meet a stricter judicial scrutiny, known as the compelling interest test.
> 
> ...


A probate court which will assign a conservator in the case of mental illness.  I'm beginning to think you need a conservator to protect your liberty.  In terms of guns, attempt to enter a public building or a commercial aircraft with a gun in plain sight.  Due Process will be in effect immediately.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Dec 30, 2021)

Rye Catcher said:


> A probate court which will assign a conservator in the case of mental illness.  I'm beginning to think you need a conservator to protect your liberty.  In terms of guns, attempt to enter a public building or a commercial aircraft with a gun in plain sight.  Due Process will be in effect immediately.


Thank you for your thoughtless, zero-content response.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> There's been at least 2 airline pilots who committed suicide by diving their fully loaded passenger planes into a mountain or ocean.
> 
> How much due process would we need to take these pilots jobs away from them so that they couldn't murder dozens of people?


False comparison fallacy.

There is no right to be an airline pilot – there is an individual right to possess firearms.


----------



## Papageorgio (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Lyndon McLeod aka Roman McClay: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
> 
> 
> Lyndon James McLeod was named as the active shooter In Denver and Lakewood, Colorado.
> ...


It would be way to easy for those with an agenda to grant gun privileges to the insane or take away gun privileges to the sane. To leave the decision to a person that may or may not be subjective is a terrible idea.


----------



## Papageorgio (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> There's been at least 2 airline pilots who committed suicide by diving their fully loaded passenger planes into a mountain or ocean.
> 
> How much due process would we need to take these pilots jobs away from them so that they couldn't murder dozens of people?


Flying an airplane is not a right. Try again.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Dec 30, 2021)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Actually not.
> 
> One cannot be designated a prohibited person unless he has been adjudicated as being mentally ill or committed to a mental institution the consequence of a court order.
> 
> ...


Did you Bother to read this thread? That is NOT what Otis wants.


----------



## Rye Catcher (Dec 30, 2021)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Which – again – is un-Constitutional.
> 
> Law enforcement can only refer a case to a judge to make that determination.
> 
> And – yet again – that would require providing the court with evidence and testimony from mental health professionals.


Wrong, LE can detain a person as to 5150 W&I.  





__





						Codes Display Text
					





					leginfo.legislature.ca.gov


----------



## Otis Mayfield (Dec 30, 2021)

James Holmes set off tear gas grenades and shot into the audience with multiple firearms. Twelve people were killed and 70 others were injured, 58 of them from gunfire. It was the deadliest shooting in Colorado since the Columbine High School massacre in 1999. At the time, the event had the largest number of victims (82) in one shooting in modern U.S. history.[4] This number was eventually surpassed by the 107 victims in the 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting.









						2012 Aurora, Colorado shooting - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				





Another Colorado lunatic that we didn't stop.

Why do you want maniacs to have access to firearms?


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Lyndon McLeod aka Roman McClay: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
> 
> 
> Lyndon James McLeod was named as the active shooter In Denver and Lakewood, Colorado.
> ...


I think it's a stupid fucking idea.  It would be too subject to abuse by anti-gun shrinks.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> James Holmes set off tear gas grenades and shot into the audience with multiple firearms. Twelve people were killed and 70 others were injured, 58 of them from gunfire. It was the deadliest shooting in Colorado since the Columbine High School massacre in 1999. At the time, the event had the largest number of victims (82) in one shooting in modern U.S. history.[4] This number was eventually surpassed by the 107 victims in the 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why do you want to violate people's rights.


----------



## Otis Mayfield (Dec 30, 2021)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Why do you want to violate people's rights.




Are you insane?

Because if you aren't insane, it doesn't affect you.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Are you insane?
> 
> Because if you aren't insane, it doesn't affect you.


It won't matter if I'm actually insane.  It'll only matter if some anti-gun dumbass shrink SAYS I'm insane.  Get the picture, now?


----------



## MaryL (Dec 30, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Lyndon McLeod aka Roman McClay: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
> 
> 
> Lyndon James McLeod was named as the active shooter In Denver and Lakewood, Colorado.
> ...


Remember the black guy that ran down 5 little old white ladies and little kids in Waukesha? he just vanished off the radar. It wasn't terrorism OR racism, because the media says so. The same media that focused on Nick Sandman racist but downplayed Jesse Smollett faux racism. The media and social activists come off more like the boy that cried wolf than actually concerned with...anything.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Dec 30, 2021)

What's the yearly financial cost of firearm crime on America? You have to add on any compensation paid to claim victims.

And what's the cost of yearly firearm and ammunition sales?

Then one good therapy would be to add a sales tax on top of the different State's taxes on firearm and ammo sales to recoup the crime costs.

Seems fair to me.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Dec 30, 2021)

Captain Caveman said:


> What's the yearly financial cost of firearm crime on America? You have to add on any compensation paid to claim victims.
> 
> And what's the cost of yearly firearm and ammunition sales?
> 
> ...


Are all murderers insane?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Dec 30, 2021)

Captain Caveman said:


> What's the yearly financial cost of firearm crime on America? You have to add on any compensation paid to claim victims.


No we don't.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Dec 31, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> It's already part of federal gun laws that those adjudicated to be mentally ill are prohibited from owning guns


True, but where and how does adjudication begin?  

That's one of the worries about these Red Flag law that allow Extreme Protection Orders to be issued without the protections of the 4th Amendment (think of exigent circuumstances when the police claim an immediate emergency allows them to violate the 4th Amendment and break into a vehicle or home without the requisite conditions for doing so being present, primarily having a warrant signed by a judge allowing them to do so).

While I haven't seen anything too concerning on this front other than just the mere nature of this legislation, I also haven't been tracking their issuance due to other time-sensative items on my plate, but the fact that the first one in the country was issued here in King County in Washington State a year or so back is what caught my attention in the first place.  

I believe it or at least one of the early one was issued against a "person of interest" who is alleged to be the leader of the white supremacist group AtomWaffen (Leader of ‘Atomwaffen’ hate group convicted of five federal felonies for conspiracy to threaten journalists and Anti-Defamation League employees)

The thing is, that many people will see white supremacist hate group and think yeah that's a good call, however once precedence is made, if they can do this to them, they can do it to any one of us, because everything is secret, it's done behind closed doors, and your ability to contest what they want done only comes after the damage is done (due process comes after the fact not before).

This may not seem any different than the way things are done normally but it is and worthy of further research for anyone interested.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Dec 31, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> That's true.
> 
> The only thing I would add is that parents, school or place of work could report you to police. The police would look into it and see if there was evidence that you were crazy. If the cops think you're crazy too, they could put you in the program where you receive free mental health care.
> 
> It could even be that the psychiatrist says that you can get your guns back as long as you agree to take your meds.


I'm pretty sure all of that happened to Nicklaus (sp) Cruz, the Parkland Florida shooter who killed 17 of his classmates and although one police officer tried to get him held temporarily under the Baker Act, and the FBI was allegedly sent social media posts where Cruz indicated that he wanted to be the next school shooter or something to that affect, no one did anything about him.  

Well nothing besides attempting to prosecute the school resource officer Scot Petersen whom it seems was the ONLY person who tried to 'get Cruz help/protect his charges'.

I personally think the prosecutors who charged Petersen should be brought up on malicious prosecution.  I understand the parents are devastated by the loss of their children but we have got to get away from this line of thinking of "somebody has to pay" even if it's not the right somebody.


----------



## Blues Man (Dec 31, 2021)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> True, but where and how does adjudication begin?
> 
> That's one of the worries about these Red Flag law that allow Extreme Protection Orders to be issued without the protections of the 4th Amendment (think of exigent circuumstances when the police claim an immediate emergency allows them to violate the 4th Amendment and break into a vehicle or home without the requisite conditions for doing so being present, primarily having a warrant signed by a judge allowing them to do so).
> 
> ...



With families and medical doctors.

Red flag laws are entirely unconstitutional IMO as a person is given no opportunity to face his accusers in court, is given no time to hire a lawyer and prepare a defense and the claims of persons other than professional mental health or medical providers is not needed.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Dec 31, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> With families and medical doctors.
> 
> Red flag laws are entirely unconstitutional IMO as a person is given no opportunity to face his accusers in court, is given no time to hire a lawyer and prepare a defense and the claims of persons other than professional mental health or medical providers is not needed.


And one shouldn't be too trustworthy of a person simply because they are a medical professional.  There are plenty of them who are anti 2nd amendment, that use children to try to get information on whether or not their parents have weapons and determine if they are in a perceived unsafe environment.

I detest the term "gun violence" because the gun is simply the vehicle with which the violence is exercised.  If they want to work on something, they should start with all of the demonstrably violent individuals in society who repeatedly show up in the criminal justice system as violent towards others, especially domestic violence abusers.  For some reason they are often overlooked as perpetrating crimes of violence even though it says it right there in the name.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Dec 31, 2021)

Rye Catcher said:


> Wrong, LE can detain a person as to 5150 W&I.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not wrong.

Law enforcement may only sequester a person’s firearms due to mental health concerns pursuant to a court order.

One cannot be designated a prohibited person if not adjudicated to be mentally incompetent. 

The OP is advocating for a mental health evaluation as a prerequisite to taking possession of a firearm absent evidence of a mental health disorder and due process, which is un-Constitutional.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Dec 31, 2021)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> exigent circuumstances when the police claim an immediate emergency allows them to violate the 4th Amendment


If a situation is considered an exigent circumstance as a matter of Constitutional law, then it doesn’t violate the 4th Amendment.

Otherwise, your post is a slippery slope fallacy – such protection orders can be issued pursuant only to a court order, everyone must be afforded due process, including white supremacists.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Dec 31, 2021)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> And one shouldn't be too trustworthy of a person simply because they are a medical professional.


Which is why the testimony and evidence is evaluated by a neutral magistrate, who will make a ruling based on the law.

And the gunowner is afforded due process, the right to a hearing on his behalf.


----------



## Otis Mayfield (Dec 31, 2021)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Which is why the testimony and evidence is evaluated by a neutral magistrate, who will make a ruling based on the law.
> 
> And the gunowner is afforded due process, the right to a hearing on his behalf.



Yes, if you're running around the back 40, buck naked, chasing the goat, shooting over the goat's head, yelling at it to stop, and the cops throw a net over you.

They can submit you to the program.

You yell that you're not crazy, and that everyone else is crazy, and where did that goat go?

You get a hearing before a judge. The judge makes a ruling.

And the psychiatrist will check you out and see if you're truly nutts.

A lot of this is already in place. You can be admitted to a mental hospital involuntarily, if you're a threat to yourself or others. That's been the law for decades.

I'm just saying we should make it easier for officials to get guns out of the hands of crazy people.


----------



## 2aguy (Dec 31, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> With families and medical doctors.
> 
> Red flag laws are entirely unconstitutional IMO as a person is given no opportunity to face his accusers in court, is given no time to hire a lawyer and prepare a defense and the claims of persons other than professional mental health or medical providers is not needed.




And then the entire burden of proving their defense, and getting their guns back is on them........

Any stupid Red Flag law needs the state to pay all legal fees and other fees of the person targeted, including reimbursment for lost time at work......


----------

