# Texans are fools to pass up on Johnny Football.here is why.



## LA RAM FAN (Apr 6, 2014)

I remember hearing a couple years ago from a friend of mine to look out for a guy known as Johnny Football and I never forgot his name because what he told me blew me away.

That he was at some stadium and before a live crowd, he threw a football from the VERY TOP of the stadium nosebleed seats in the upper level and made a basket through the hoop of basketball goal they had on the stadium.Not once,but TWICE!!!!

Once you can chalk it up to a miracle fluke but TWICE!!!! no way.the guy is an extremely rare talent.from what all the experts are saying,they expect the texans to pass on him though. I guess they must not be aware of that amazing accomplishment he achived. Kurt Warner also thinks basically thinks they  are crazy pretty much if they pass up on him.listen to his comments.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 6, 2014)

Manziel is one of the most accurate QBs I have ever seen.  THAT is a big part of why he is so dangerous.


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## Rocko (Apr 6, 2014)

I think the Bills should take him at number 9. I'm not sold on EJ manuel.


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## HUGGY (Apr 6, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> I remember hearing a couple years ago from a friend of mine to look out for a guy known as Johnny Football and I never forgot his name because what he told me blew me away.
> 
> That he was at some stadium and before a live crowd, he threw a football from the VERY TOP of the stadium nosebleed seats in the upper level and made a basket through the hoop of basketball goal they had on the stadium.Not once,but TWICE!!!!
> 
> ...



Unfortunately for Johnnie Football there will be defenders like Richard Sherman and Kam Chancellor defending the basketball hoop in the NFL and the "hoop" will be moving at the speed of a world class sprinter.

If you think Manzeil is more accurate than Peyton Manning you have officially lost your mind.

There won't be any points scored this season with trick shots.

I'm sure Johnnie will be taken in the first round because this draft has no Andrew Lucks or RGIII's.. and they were not even the best of 2012.  

Manzeil got more than his share of hype.  No doubt he got over on some scouts and GMs.

I've seen several Texas A & M games and Johnnie missed plenty of throws that are fairly routine in the NFL.

I wouldn't trade him for Russell Wilson and ANY amount of money.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 7, 2014)

HUGGY said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > I remember hearing a couple years ago from a friend of mine to look out for a guy known as Johnny Football and I never forgot his name because what he told me blew me away.
> ...



I never follow college football, but it looks like you missed the games that Winterborn saw where he was EXTREMLY accurate when his receivers were covered.

Oh and this thread isnt about Russel Wilson being the greatest quarterback in the NFL right now or being better than Manziel.

Its about the texans being idiots enough to pass up on Manziel.Johnny Football IS available for the Texans,Wilson isnt..

 If you have other quarterbacks in the draft you think should go ahead before manziel, then by all means list them and your reasons why you think so,but leave Wilson out of this thread since its about Johnny Football and how the texans are going to be idiots if the sports writers are indeed right,that they arent going to draft a quarterback in the first round. 

why the Texans WOULDNT use their first round draft pick in a year when there are many good choices is beyond me and makes me flabbergasted and confused as hell especially since they still dont have a proven quarterback.

 I cant possisbly understand WHY they would not draft a quarterback with the golden opportunity they have now before them and why not Johnny Football. He is too much of a you can pass up prospect. The Raiders and The Vikings would like to get  them the writers are saying but they think the same thing i do that he wont be around that long and will go by the 4th or 5th pick. 

sorry Hug,but as much as I hate Kurt Warner,I think he knows a little something more about quarterbacks than you.lol.

I guantee,if he can stay out of trouble,he is going to be a force to be reckoned with in the NFL in the future.IF the Texans ARE as stupid as these sports writers seem to think they are,The Lambs will be equally as stupid since they are saying they dont think they will take him either which will be a major mistake on their part as well since Bradford is CLEARLY not the answer that they seem to think he will be.they STILL actually think he will amount to something.

If The Lambs move back to LA like they are expected to next year and once again are that TRUE team,The LA RAMS,I will be pissed as hell they blew this chance to pass up on such a great talent.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 7, 2014)

Rocko said:


> I think the Bills should take him at number 9. I'm not sold on EJ manuel.



Im not sold on him either but I dont think your Bills will get the chance to draft him since like I said,he will probably be gone by the 4th or 5th round with either  Cleveland or jacksonville probably  taking him.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 7, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Manziel is one of the most accurate QBs I have ever seen.  THAT is a big part of why he is so dangerous.



as I said,Kurt Warner seems to share your view as well.Warner if you heard in that video,was watching all the quarterbacks throw to recievers and while a couple of them impressed him,they did not wow him like johnny football did because there were some throws they made that were off taget and hit the ground where NONE of Manziels hit the ground.

Warner said that Manziel just made him go wow!!!!! at the football combine watching his throws and how he was so accurate,none of them hit the floor like they did with the other quarterbacks throwing.Warner also said that he would take Manziel ahead of the others bases on his pocket presence and what he brings to the game with his intangilbles.

The first couple seasons he'll struggle i think,but after his second season in the NFL,I think he'll learn  to stay more patient in the pocket and get used to the fast pace and  speed of the game and by that time,I think he will start wowing people by his third season and turn that organization that drafts him around into a constant winner like Tom Brady did and Russell Wilson has done with the Seahawks.


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## hjmick (Apr 7, 2014)

Speaking as a Texans and Aggies fan, it's a tough call...


Manziel or Clowney...


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 7, 2014)

hjmick said:


> Speaking as a Texans and Aggies fan, it's a tough call...
> 
> 
> Manziel or Clowney...



thats what the majority of the sportswriters are saying that they think the texans will take Clowney with their first pick or The Lambs will take him with the second if they pass him up.

Tell me,being a Texans fan,WHY is it not a no brainer,why do you even consider taking Clowney over Manziel? the quarterback position is the most important position that you make the right choice at and when you have a cant miss prospect like Manziel,seems to me its a no brainer.

Especially since they dont even have a quarterback.You can build a team around a quarterback like manziel,sometimes a special quarterback like Tom Brady or Russel wilson comes along in a great blue moon that makes everyone on the team much better players than they are. I believe Manziel is in that same catagory,WHY pass on him for Clowney?

Defensive players dont have that kind of an effect on a team like the quarterback does.Well Ray Lewis was the rare exception

 you cant build a team around a defensive player.to me,its a no brainer,you go with johnny football and take your chance that your right,that he is every bit the hype they give him.after all,you got Kurt warner saying you got to take him when you have that chance.that to me,is another reason why its a no brainer.


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## hjmick (Apr 7, 2014)

For me, it's a combination of things...


As an Aggies fan, I love Johnny Fucking Football. After what happened with David Carr and Matt Schaub, I'd like my favorite college QB to go somewhere his offensive line won't get him killed and shorten his career. As a Texans fan I recognize their need for a QB, but I also know they need some work on the offensive line.

As for Clowney, the dude is a force to be reckoned with and I am reminded of the Texans' first, first round pick, Mario Williams. I was pissed they went with a defensive player, but I was wrong. Williams was clutch.

Either way, I'll be watching. Even after last season. The Season of Tears...


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 7, 2014)

hjmick said:


> For me, it's a combination of things...
> 
> 
> As an Aggies fan, I love Johnny Fucking Football. After what happened with David Carr and Matt Schaub, I'd like my favorite college QB to go somewhere his offensive line won't get him killed and shorten his career. As a Texans fan I recognize their need for a QB, but I also know they need some work on the offensive line.
> ...



Well good luck to your Texans.I kinda have a soft spot for them since the football fans in that city got screwed by A hole Bud Adams with the oilers leaving. I hate football teams that have moved their teams,colts,Rams,Cards,ect ect.

as you can see from my FIRST reply to Huggy on this thread,I am a die hard LA RAMS fan and wish i could be there to see Georgia Frontier  burn in hell for moving that team not even respecting her husbands wishes to keep them in LA.If he was STILL alive,they would still be in LA.

I expect that to change though.That fraud team in st louis,their lease expires at the end of this year and they are free to move if they desire because of a clause in their lease and their owner recently purchased some land next to the staples center where the Lakers play big enough for a football field and there has been all kinds of talk in LA that they think there is an excellent chance they will move back there in LA next year.

that stadium in st louis  is half empty all the time with terrible fan support,they rank 31st in the league of all 32 teams and unlike in LA,they have no following out there with terrible attendance and horrible viewership. that would change drastically with the move to LA.that place was packed all the time,I remember.

their new owner stan kronike also has a home in LA so I see him moving that team back there next year.dont want to get my hopes up TOO high though so I get dissapointed if things dont go my way.

Adams at least isnt evil since he left the TEAM name there in Houston changing it to the Titans.Dont know why the city of Houston didnt demand the name Oilers back.

Back to Johnny Football.For your sake,the best thing that can happen is if they do the wise thing and sign Johnny Football.

They just might do that and those sportswriters around the country just might be idiots thinking they will take Clowney after all, look at this.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...ake-bortles-scheduled-to-visit-houston-texans


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 7, 2014)

on the other hand,that link I just posted in my last post doesnt really mean anything.He is going to visit the Raiders as well.Being a california boy at HEART and all,I hope the Raiders do sign him.

My favorite team the past 20 years has been The chargers -dont live and die with them like I did with the LA RAMS,but they replaced them as my favorite team-same colors and being in california and all, so i wish THEY were in position to sign him but their not so it will be either the Browns or The Raiders that get Manziel according to what most the writers think so again,I am crossing my fingers its the Raiders. 

Would love to have the chance as a chargers fan,to get that chance to watch him twice a year.

It really looks like your Texans will indeed take Clowney though as you can see from this link below of a mock draft from ESPN.

NFL Mock Draft 2014: What Every Team Should Do with 1st-Round Pick | Bleacher Report


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## hjmick (Apr 7, 2014)

Damn. I hate the Raiders. Used to like them, back in the day. Even went to the Coliseum to watch them play _(I lived in Ventura County for 30+ years)_. The Davis fucked L.A.

Then Georgia fucked L.A....

The Oilers moved _(my childhood team)_...


I've been getting screwed by football teams for years...


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 8, 2014)

hjmick said:


> Damn. I hate the Raiders. Used to like them, back in the day. Even went to the Coliseum to watch them play _(I lived in Ventura County for 30+ years)_. The Davis fucked L.A.
> 
> Then Georgia fucked L.A....
> 
> ...



Dude if you supported the Oakland Faders when they were in LA then you along with thousands of others there in california,should be ashamed of yourself. thats the trouble with the world,there are too many thiefs in it. those fans i st louis,indy,and arizona are thiefs.keeping something that was stolen from someone else knowingly.

All those fans in arizona that cheer on the cardinals or the ones in Indy that cheer on the colts and the ones in stank louis that cheer on the lambs,they are a disgrace to the NFL because they  all have supported those thief owners who took them away from their loyal fans who should burn in hell for taking their team away from the fans that all supported them. those owners are all thiefs and should have been sent to  jail for stealing.

the fans are jerks as well for supporting a thief owner like they do.

Now if you ONLY supported the Raiders when they were in Oakland,thats one thing.But thats not the way it sounds to me. 

Davis didnt fuck LA.He fucked Oakland moving them away from that city and invading LA like he did.I wish I could go visit hell to watch him and Georgia suffer for their evil deeds that i guarantee,they are paying for now as is that fucking late owner of the colts .

Davis might not suffer eternally because HE at least  did the right thing in the end.He at least moved them BACK to Oakland where they belong with all those other scumbag sewer dwelling rats in Oakland so his suffering wont last near as long as Georgia or the colts owner who both  will burn in hell eternally for NEVER doing the right thing and moving them back.

 Im not even a colts fan but I hate asshole owners who move their team away from their founding city like those 3 did and Bill Bidwell of the cardinals have done.

The only time in my lifetime that i WAS happy about an NFL team moving away from a city to another was when Davis did the right thing and moved them BACK to Oakland where they belong.

I guess I actually have Davis to thank in the end it turns out  for being the A hole that he was moving the team away twice like he did because when the Rams move back to LA next year,the NFL has said they would like to have two NFL teams play there in the future.

But it WONT be the Raiders joining them because the owners dont want the raiders back there again because of mark davis whos father was a traiter.the apple doesnt fall very far from the tree.also all the business establishments and the politicinas dont want them in LA either because they dont want any of I belong here you dont bickering going on like what transpired when the raiders and Rams were both here so thank god for that that it at least wont be the Raiders in the future if there is another one.

the only one that would be possible would be my chargers which i would be okay with I guess.I would of course prefer them to do the right thing and stay  in san diego for the fans sake and have an expansion team go there to LA if the owners just HAVE to have two teams in the NFL play there. thats stupid though because chicago doesnt have two teams in the NFL so why should LA have to have two of them?

 Chicago has two BASEBALL teams yeah,but not football so the Rams are the one and ONLY team that should be allowed to play in LA.thats where they belong and they were there first way way before that asshole Davis brought them there.


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## HUGGY (Apr 8, 2014)

I'm sorry if I don't get it...but what does ANY of this have to do with the success of Russell Wilson or the Seattle Seahawks?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tloHnOtq_l0]The Crystals (Blossoms) - He's A Rebel (original recording) - YouTube[/ame]


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## Truthseeker420 (Apr 8, 2014)

I'm not sure I would take Manziel with the first pick....but what do I know I picked Denver....


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## rightwinger (Apr 8, 2014)

Manziel is Doug Flutie

Texans would be crazy to pass on Clowney

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENuZHnQlqX0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENuZHnQlqX0[/ame]


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 8, 2014)

HUGGY said:


> I'm sorry if I don't get it...but what does ANY of this have to do with the success of Russell Wilson or the Seattle Seahawks?
> 
> The Crystals (Blossoms) - He's A Rebel (original recording) - YouTube



Noboby is going over to your wilson thread to post Huggy because we have all heard you say that over a million times.Its not exactly the first time we have heard you say that before.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 8, 2014)

Truthseeker420 said:


> I'm not sure I would take Manziel with the first pick....but what do I know I picked Denver....



yeah as I told you before,stick to politics.thats a subject you at LEAST have a great knowledge of.

or stay away from football and stick with baseball or basketball.you got to be much more knowledgeble about those two sports than you are on football.

see If you had picked the NINERS in the superbowl the year before,I wouldnt think you ignorant about football because even though i thought the Ravens were going to win that superbowl,unlike the Hawks/donkeys game,I wasnt confidant they would win like I was with the Hawks game.

The Hawks game I was so confidant,I put down a thousand dollars that I won. and Im not a rich guy.Thats not a bet I would have ever taken on the Ravens the year before.Normally in superbowls,I'll just bet something like 50 bucks or a dinner,but this one was so obvious they would lose and would be a blowout.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 8, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> Manziel is Doug Flutie
> 
> Texans would be crazy to pass on Clowney
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENuZHnQlqX0



this coming from a fool who thought the donkeys actually had a prayer against Huggys Hawks.

DESPITE the fact he had said way back in the middle of the season the year before when they lost to the falcons in the playoffs,that they would get to the superbowl by the next season,this past season.

 Even AFTER he said all that to you,and even AFTER they beat the team that was in the superbowl the previous season,the niners,you STILL doubted Huggy.

man what drugs were you taking that whole time?

even I wasnt  stupid as you were.I picked them to lose against the niners in the NFC championsip game but I at LEAST was smart enough to say that entire week leading up to the game,the winner of the NFC championship game would win the supernbowl.I at least wasnt a fool not to realise that those were the two best teams in the NFL and that THAT was the real superbowl.

I at least learned my lesson.you NEVER learn.

the fact two posters who were actually dense enough to pick the donkeys to win,I can pretty much take it to the bank now that he will be a great quarterback in the NFL now.

you both made sure of that with your predictions.two people dense enough to pick the donkeys. you two sealed the deal for Johnny right there


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## Truthseeker420 (Apr 8, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not sure I would take Manziel with the first pick....but what do I know I picked Denver....
> ...



The last Superbowl pool I won was when I picked Rams over the Titans. I was just down the street from where Lewis gang murdered those guys.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 8, 2014)

Truthseeker420 said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > Truthseeker420 said:
> ...



I see. Like I said,stick to politics.Now THATS a subject your very knowledgeble and good at. or like I said,baseball and basketball.Im sure you cant do any worse with those two than you do with football.

Man that was probably the most depressing moment in my life was when that team in st louis,the LAMBS won the superbowl other than when that evil bitch Georgia moved them from LA of course.

.It was bad enough them being in the superbowl,but winning it all? that was the final dagger in the heart for me. Thats why Tom Brady and the rest of the patriot players that played in that superbowl are my heros.

for BEATING that Lambs team in st louis. i have to laugh my ass off when  I toon in to watch the Hawks play the Lambs in st louis and see that stadium HALF FULL. that team is ranked 31st of all the 32 teams in attendance for home games. I have a few friends that live there who have been to a couple of their games the past couple years and they say they can easily  get good seats up close there,the attendance is so horrible.

That place is simply not a football town,they did not deserve them in the first place.The first 3 or 4 years when they got there when they were horrible and only winning like 2 or 3 games a year,that place was LUCKY if it was halfway full then same as now.you could easily get seats up close in the lower level same as now.

they all jumped on the bandwagin of course and sold out when Warner was there,but ever since just those three good years they had when he was there,they have been horrible since then with the worst attendendace in the league the last several years.

that team has no following whatsoever there.They would always pack them in LA when they were playing there.Its nothing but a lose lose situation if Stan keeps them in st Louis after this year,its nothing but a win win situation if he brings em back to LA.the owners badly want  a team there.Its gonna be my Rams next year baby. the only REAL RAMS football team is in LA.

I live here in the midwest and people said to me back then when the rams moved to st louis,-why are you sad and depressed they are moving,they will be much closer to you now? they couldnt get it that yeah,I have physically been living here in the midwset my whole life but my HEART has always been in california.That I am a california boy at heart since I love hollywood so much and everything. because of that,i was every bit as devasted as the fans in LA were when they moved here to the midwest where I live.

they just couldnt understand that I only loved the rams because of the CITY name LOS ANGELES RAMS,their ONE AND ONLY TRUE FOOTBALL NAME.

after they departed,i switched to being a charger fan but its just not the same,I dont live and die with them like I did with the LA RAMS.

what I loved about it when they lost the superbowl to the pats,was they pretty much jinxed themselves losing that game because they switched uniform colors the year before after they won the superbowl with their CLASSIC BLUE AND YELLOW uni's from their days in LA. why fix something thats not broken? duh. Georgia ran that team into the ground. I hear that when they bring them back to LA next year,they are going to bring back those classic uniforms as well. thank god,those are the coolest looking unis in the NFL league history hands down,no contest.

Not even my chargers rival their colors.at least not now since they took away their yellow pants and made them blue instead.that pissed me off. Now they came close to looking as impressive back then when they DID have the yellow pants-my chargers.


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## hjmick (Apr 8, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> hjmick said:
> 
> 
> > Damn. I hate the Raiders. Used to like them, back in the day. Even went to the Coliseum to watch them play _(I lived in Ventura County for 30+ years)_. The Davis fucked L.A.
> ...




No, I supported them when they were in Oakland. Big fan of Plunkett, Alzado, and the lot. Old school Raiders. When they were in L.A. I simply took the opportunity to go see them play, much as I did the Rams...


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 8, 2014)

hjmick said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > hjmick said:
> ...



oh good. glad to hear that.I hope you did the RIGHT thing with the raiders when they were in LA that I do with the Lambs team playing here in st louis,root for the other team to win that played them?

Like I just got done saying,the Rams moving away from LA was easily the most depressing moment in my life,it was like losing your only true friend you have in the world that you've had and loved for so many years in your life,your dog.

The SECOND worst moment in my life was having the Lambs WIN the superbowl.that was the final dagger in the heart for me. just like when they moved away,I was depressed for YEARS after that.both times.

the third most depressing moment in my life was when the Raiders lost the last superbowl. Living here in kansas city and all,I met an aquintance who introduced me to rich gannon when he was here playing for the chiefs.

I got to sit down and talk to Rich one time and get to know him so I so badly wanted his Raiders to win the superbowl.It took years for me to get over that one as well

why did he have to go and pick the superbowl to have his worst game in his career.why?.

especially since they were back where they belong and were once again,THE OAKLAND RAIDERS.I have always used that hope that the raiders moving back to LA-something I did not think would be possible,that The Rams would move back as well and that moment looks good for me now baby.

for one thing,I know for a FACT through talking to people out in california part of the bring back the rams to LA club,that there are people from st louis that have been up there inquiring about the cost of homes out there.If theres nothing to it,why are they up there asking about the prices of homes? 

seems to me if there was nothing to it at all,the owner stan kronike would just come out and say that he just bought the land out there for some personal propery or something like thatthat the rams are staying   but he isnt saying a word about it.

He wont make the announcement till after the season is over which is smart.

the vikings for a while were making a threat to move out there but nobody really belived back then that was ever really going to happen like they do with the Rams right now so thats good news also.The vibes are just so much different than they were back then with the vikings. you dint have people all over the newscasts out there talking about a possible vikings move like they are with the rams.

there are former LA RAMS players like eric dickerson and vince ferragamo and fred dreyor out there on newscasts doing interviews all the time saying it s a very stong possibility.that kind of talk never happend with the vikings thank god.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 8, 2014)

ANYWAYS,if anybody thinks there are better quarterbacks in the draft that should go ahead of johnny football.Lets here them and WHY?-unless you are people that predicted the donkeys to win like truthseeker and rightwinger. guys who obviously arent very bright about football.

 give some actual REASONS why he shouldnt be number one. so far nobody has made any VALID ones.


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## HUGGY (Apr 8, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> ANYWAYS,if anybody thinks there are better quarterbacks in the draft that should go ahead of johnny football.Lets here them and WHY?-unless you are people that predicted the donkeys to win like truthseeker and rightwinger. guys who obviously arent very bright about football.
> 
> give some actual REASONS why he shouldnt be number one. so far nobody has made any VALID ones.



Maybe because he got an NCAA rulebook when he became a Texas A & M football player and he immediataly went out and made a deal with an agent to sell his signed football gear.

He got lucky ..it could have gone very badly the other way.

He uses extremely bad judgement at times.  His rich daddy and school administration won't be there to pull his ass out of the fire at the next level.

Johnnie thinks he is smarter than the rest of the players and authority.

I think A & M was happy to get rid of him.


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## rightwinger (Apr 8, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Manziel is Doug Flutie
> ...



More reason to take Clowney over an overrated, undersized quarterback

Ask Huggy how valuable his defense is.  Ask about the QB they got in the third round

Manziel is not worth an overall number one pick, Clowney is


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 8, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
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> > rightwinger said:
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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 10, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
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coming from YOU,a fool stupid enough to pick the donkeys to win,its no surprising to see this post cause you  just crippled your arguments. 

With Huggys,I can understand why you would pass him up and take a chance on another quarterback before him,your post though to no surprise,just is all the more reason to take him though which again,is no surprise coming form someone who couldnt  see the obvious,that the superbowl would be a blowout with the seahawks winning.

undersized quarterback? 

yeah thats what they said about Wilson also and every team in the NFL is regretting right now juding him by that.


 OVERRATED?
how many other quarterbacks out there in the history of the sport have ever been able to make a shot from a nosebleed section of the upper level into the net swishing it not once,but TWICE in a row? not another one that Im aware of. yeah thats being overrated alright.

Ask about the quarterback Huggy got in the 3rd round? 

Uh thats because seattle wasnt even sure he would be as great a quarterback as he has blossomed into obviously.the fact they waited that long instead of snaching him in the first.
and its also extremely rare when a late round pick blossoms into an excellent quarterback.thats not the norm.Wison,Brady,and Montana are  rare excceptions.Thats not a normal thing that happens all the time.

AGAIN,Brady,Wilson,and Montana are such great gifted players that come around just once in a great blue moon that makes everybody on the roster much better players than they really are who get overlooked.thats very rare when that Happens.

Brady being the last GREAT querterback before Wilson who was extremely overlooked by everybody in the league. Brady makes everybody on that team much better players than they really are and wills them to excel just as wilson does.how many years has that been between wilson and brady? something like 13 or 14. got to go with the QB,he will make the defense perform and excel. again you can build a team around a QB just like they did with manning when he was with the colts.

Manziel has his off field troubles as Huggy pointed out no doubt.But its not like he has been linked to drugs or anything.

You have to take the chance that he  will grow up in the NFL when he gets into the real world as long  as he has a good coach to guide him like Wilson did with Carrol for example.He is just way too much of a talented prospect you got to take the chance on.

another undersized doug flutie? seriously you REALLY need to get off that crack you been smoking everyday your whole life.

to say he is undersized and comparable to flutie, thats just as asinine as your posts that oswald was the one assassin.

Flutie was like 5'7 or 5'8.  Wilson is 5'11''. Manziel is 6'1'' and 210 pounds which the same weight wilson is.

I can only say this so many times,you REALLY need to get off that crack you been smokiing everyday your entire life.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 11, 2014)

I'd take Clowney, QB's as first picks, they sometimes work, however more often than not, they fail, its a risky position, if you hit it big, like with Luck or take a big hit by drafting Marinovich, tough to say. 

Manziel scored 32 on the Wonderlic, however Luck and Kapernick scored 37. 

I like the defensive guy instead the offensive guy. Defense still wins championships.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 11, 2014)

Papageorgio said:


> I'd take Clowney, QB's as first picks, they sometimes work, however more often than not, they fail, its a risky position, if you hit it big, like with Luck or take a big hit by drafting Marinovich, tough to say.
> 
> Manziel scored 32 on the Wonderlic, however Luck and Kapernick scored 37.
> 
> I like the defensive guy instead the offensive guy. Defense still wins championships.



Fair enough.

 I still go with Manziel though for the same reason i stated that you can build a team around a quarterback as they did with both Aikman and Manning of the colts and Cowboys.Defense wins championships no doubt,but if you have a quarterback who is disasterous,then having a great defense can only take you only so far into the playoffs.Just ask the kc chiefs from 1995 and 1997. 

Those two years they had the most dominating defense in the league.In 97 they set an NFL record at the time for most games played without giving up a touchdown,8 or 9 games.Having an excellent great defense carried them to the playoffs,but having a disasterous quarterback both seasons was their gloom and doom both times with steve bonehead in 95 and elvis garbage in 97.  Elvis Garbage then joined the Ravens after the chiefs let him go a couple years later and got them to the playoffs, but then went one and done in the first round that year.

Then there is The Bears as well from the year the colts and them played in the superbowl.The Bears made it to the superbowl on the strength of their defense and special teams carrying tthem to the big game that year but once they got there,having a disasterous quarterback who is now a journeyman backup quarterback in the league,FINALLY caught up to them with his weak inaccurate throws leaving the bears defense on the field all day long which eventually got too tired to rush the passer anymore letting Manning pick them apart and win the superbowl of course.

The Bears didnt want to merely just get to the superbowl that year,they obviously wanted to win it all.I guarantee the fans would much have rather seen them not get to the superbowl that year instead of lose it all like they did.I know because i spoke to many Bears fans back then and they were very depressed about them lossing back then. Im not even a Bears fan myself but I was very unhappy about it back then seeing them lose hating the colts and manning and everything so I  can just imiagine how sad THEY were back then.


you dont knew where your going to be able to get a a decent quarterback who wont hurt you like grossman of the bears,grbek and bonehead of the chiefs did.Its too risky to pass up. 

again,the last time a late round quarterback in the NFL that everyone overlooked who turned out to be a quarterback who could get you to the big dance before wilson 2 years ago,was Brady.and how many years has that been,14,15? the risk is just too great to take and pass up.


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## rightwinger (Apr 12, 2014)

They should take Derek Carr


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 12, 2014)

after how disasterous his brother was,i dont think so.


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## rightwinger (Apr 12, 2014)

I would not risk an overall #1 on Manziel. If you want an undersized QB you can get one in the second round 

A player like Clowney comes around every five years or so. If they want a stretch, take Khalil Mack...he will be a better player than Manziel


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## Papageorgio (Apr 12, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> I would not risk an overall #1 on Manziel. If you want an undersized QB you can get one in the second round
> 
> A player like Clowney comes around every five years or so. If they want a stretch, take Khalil Mack...he will be a better player than Manziel



I agree, Luck was a once in a generation QB, Manziel, maybe good but he isn't a sure pick, Clowney is a anchor for a defense and a problem for any offense he goes up against.


Sent from my iPad using an Android.


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## HUGGY (Apr 12, 2014)

Papageorgio said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > I would not risk an overall #1 on Manziel. If you want an undersized QB you can get one in the second round
> ...



Ya... that was the book on Lucky Luck.. *Once In A Generation*..   He should probably go ahead on and write his autobiography and play himself in the movie of the same title.

Luck was the 27 th rated passer in 2012 and 17 th last season while that midget 3 rd rounder Wilson was 4 th and 7 th respectively...THAT with generally accepted as "pedestrian" receivers.  

Call me a doubting Thomas but I'm starting to wonder which "generation" he is supposed to star in.. 

Luck also plays in the same conference that gave up Mannings crazy good numbers last season and the runt had to beat any number of NFC teams that would probably have had their way with the Broncos had they made it to the Super Bowl.

I'm really just having more and more trouble seeing what the big deal is with Luck.  If he has another so-so season it might just be time to nudge him off the pedestal everyone seems to have placed him on.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 13, 2014)

HUGGY said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



The team he is on has little talent, one decent WR, the offensive line is not good, take Luck off the team and you win 5 maybe 6 games and they certainly would not have beaten the Hawks. Take Wilson off the team, the still win 10-12 games. 


Sent from my iPad using an Android.


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## HUGGY (Apr 13, 2014)

Papageorgio said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
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I've heard that a lot also.  Nonsense.  A lot of teams that have great defenses went nowhere.  10-12 is a bigger spread than a quick glance suggests.  10-6 is a whole lot more comon than 12-4.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 13, 2014)

HUGGY said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



Great, I happy for you.


Sent from my iPad using an Android.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 13, 2014)

Papageorgio said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > I would not risk an overall #1 on Manziel. If you want an undersized QB you can get one in the second round
> ...



  Yep...just think. JJ Watt and Clowney? QBs all over the NFL would be pissing themselves.


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## Samson (Apr 13, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> I would not risk an overall #1 on Manziel. If you want an undersized QB you can get one in the second round
> 
> A player like Clowney comes around every five years or so. If they want a stretch, take Khalil Mack...he will be a better player than Manziel



If size mattered as much as this thread has emphasises it could, then how did Manziel play out the last season?

How different in size are Manziel and Wilson?



Frankly all this noise about size seems to be only a red herring, diverting attention from other key components of successful quarterbacks: Scrambing Talent, speed, intelligence, ice under pressure, passion to win, loyalty of team, great receivers.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 13, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> I remember hearing a couple years ago from a friend of mine to look out for a guy known as Johnny Football and I never forgot his name because what he told me blew me away.
> 
> That he was at some stadium and before a live crowd, he threw a football from the VERY TOP of the stadium nosebleed seats in the upper level and made a basket through the hoop of basketball goal they had on the stadium.Not once,but TWICE!!!!
> 
> ...



   Good thing he was in the nosebleed seats. If you put in the lower tier he wouldnt be able to see above the rim.
   No doubt the guy is accurate,but we saw what happened to RG III.
Scrambling QB's eventually get killed,especially one's as small as Johnny.
  The Texans will take Clowney in the first because there are no QBs worth a first in this years draft.
   Just look at Brady,he was picked 199 over all.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 13, 2014)

Samson said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > I would not risk an overall #1 on Manziel. If you want an undersized QB you can get one in the second round
> ...



   He wasnt playing against NFL quality players. 
While scrambling is a good quality to have you still need to be able to sit in the pocket,you cant run an offense with that ability alone.


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## Samson (Apr 13, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
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In college football they don't allow saccing a quarterback?

In college football college players don't play defensive linemen?




Try Again.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 13, 2014)

Samson said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
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   So you're saying college players are as good as pro's?  You do realize most college players dont make it to the NFL right?


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## Samson (Apr 13, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Samson said:
> 
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> > HereWeGoAgain said:
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Lemme 'splain somethin to you:

In college, quarterbacks get sacced.

TAMU's offensive line may have been the best in the SEC during 2013, but that didn't mean LSU, Alabama, and Auburn had a bunch of pussies running defense against them.

Try thinking a little deeper than the obvious: It won't make your ears bleed.

Get the picture now?


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## Papageorgio (Apr 13, 2014)

The fact that you debate whether Manziel will be a good NFL QB or not, means he is not the first pick in the draft. 


Sent from my iPad using an Android.


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## Samson (Apr 13, 2014)

Papageorgio said:


> The fact that you debate whether Manziel will be a good NFL QB or not, means he is not the first pick in the draft.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using an Android.



Deep Thoughts.

Perhaps I should more actively debate whether or not Hillary will be our next President...thereby insuring she will not be, simply be virtue of the fact that it is debateable.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 13, 2014)

Samson said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
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   You can bet Johnny will get "sacked" way more often in the NFL.
And as small as he is you can bet he'll be get broke,just like RGIII.
   And the Texans have a history of taking BPA,and I expect that to continue.
There isn't a single QB in this years draft worth the first pick and I expect the Texans to go with Clowney and pick up a QB with the 33 pick or possibly work a trade with the Patriots for Mallett.
  And Johnny doesnt fit what O'brien considers his ideal QB and since the guy is considered a genius when it comes to offense and QBs? I'll take his word over some guy on the internet.


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## Samson (Apr 13, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > HereWeGoAgain said:
> ...



Well, I attempted to let you try to turn the page on your script, and the best you could do was repeat an regurgitate the same hackneyed blather about size.

Stick to your comfort zone.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 13, 2014)

Papageorgio said:


> The fact that you debate whether Manziel will be a good NFL QB or not, means he is not the first pick in the draft.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using an Android.



  Exactly. I dont see any QBs worth a first pick this year.
And Seattle won with good D,not because Wilson is a stand out QB.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 13, 2014)

bottles is considered a better prospect than Manziel. Manziel is a run then throw QB, it doesn't work real well. He is short, which doesn't mean he won't be good but name all the short QB's that are top tier QBs. 

He has never been in a pro-style offense, he already is carrying baggage from his last collegiate year. He gets rattled under pressure. His Wonderlic score is good but the NFL doesn't fit his style. Tebow was a good college QB and couldn't make it. 

He may prove me wrong but I don't see him as a first pick. Vince Young was a sure no fire miss, where is he?

Sent from my iPad using an Android.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 13, 2014)

Samson said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
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> > Samson said:
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   Are you an Aggie? 
Script? Dude,you haven't said anything other then your opinion. 
   1.1 QBs fail more often then not. Stop being an ignoranus.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 13, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > The fact that you debate whether Manziel will be a good NFL QB or not, means he is not the first pick in the draft.
> ...



Yep, without the D Seattle was finished. Their D came up big all day, almost every game.


Sent from my iPad using an Android.


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## Samson (Apr 13, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Samson said:
> 
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> > HereWeGoAgain said:
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Here's another opinion: I'm astonished you could write a post without the word "small" included.

That's you're "genius."


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 13, 2014)

Papageorgio said:


> bottles is considered a better prospect than Manziel. Manziel is a run then throw QB, it doesn't work real well. He is short, which doesn't mean he won't be good but name all the short QB's that are top tier QBs.
> 
> He has never been in a pro-style offense, he already is carrying baggage from his last collegiate year. He gets rattled under pressure. His Wonderlic score is good but the NFL doesn't fit his style. Tebow was a good college QB and couldn't make it.
> 
> ...



   I would take Bortles over Johnny all day and on Sunday. But he isnt worth the 1.1 pick either.
The only stand out short QB right now that I can think of is Drew Brees.
   In this draft you take the BPA even if you need a QB ...and thats Clowney.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 13, 2014)

Samson said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...



  Are you an Aggie?


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## Samson (Apr 13, 2014)

Papageorgio said:


> bottles is considered a better prospect than Manziel. Manziel is a run then throw QB, it doesn't work real well. He is short, which doesn't mean he won't be good but name all the short QB's that are top tier QBs.
> 
> He has never been in a pro-style offense, he already is carrying baggage from his last collegiate year. He gets rattled under pressure. His Wonderlic score is good but the NFL doesn't fit his style. Tebow was a good college QB and couldn't make it.
> 
> ...



Continue to parrot the blogs from Jeric Griffin.

I'll believe the seasoned warrior's opinions:

I think Manziel is a Russell Wilson-type player. He doesnt have the height; he has a strong arm and he throws with accuracy. I just think theres something about this kid. I think Manziel is going to be a valuable player in the NFL.- Roger Staubach


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 13, 2014)

Samson said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > bottles is considered a better prospect than Manziel. Manziel is a run then throw QB, it doesn't work real well. He is short, which doesn't mean he won't be good but name all the short QB's that are top tier QBs.
> ...




    He "might" turn out to be another Drew Brees. But thats unlikely.
You dont make your decision on the first pick in the draft on a hunch. 
   Obviously if you have someone like Luck out there you take him,but Johnny is not close to Luck in ability.
   And I'll ask for the third time,are you an Aggie?


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## natstew (Apr 13, 2014)

I'm a Texans fan, and as one I hope they pick Clowney first, then pray that Bortles is left for the second round.

Better yet, trade up and get them both in the first round.


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## natstew (Apr 13, 2014)

I don't think Manziel will last in the NFL.

Of course I could be wrong, I once was.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 13, 2014)

natstew said:


> I'm a Texans fan, and as one I hope they pick Clowney first, then pray that Bortles is left for the second round.
> 
> Better yet, trade up and get them both in the first round.



   Texans fan Myself.
I see us taking Clowney and finding a QB elsewhere,whether it's through a trade or the draft.
  Whatever happens you just have to trust in BoB. The guys an offensive genius.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 13, 2014)

Samson said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > bottles is considered a better prospect than Manziel. Manziel is a run then throw QB, it doesn't work real well. He is short, which doesn't mean he won't be good but name all the short QB's that are top tier QBs.
> ...



I see Manziel as a look and throw QB and if the first guy is covered, he will run, not a good NFL trait to have. He also rely's on forcing plays which lead to TO. 

Staubach has his opinion, he maybe right or wrong.


Sent from my iPad using an Android.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 13, 2014)

Samson said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...



  What the hell is this about? 

"That's you're "genius."

   "You are opinion" doesnt sound quite right....ya ignoranus.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 13, 2014)

Papageorgio said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



  Yeah,I've heard that Johnny doesnt go through his progressions and flee's the pocket way to early myself. And he's known to go deep in risky situations. You wont get away with that in the NFL.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 13, 2014)

HUGGY said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



you and me both.This guy so far has only shown me that he follows his predesser up in Indy that when he gets to the playoffs,he chokes.I figured after he screwed up and threw all those interceptions against the chiefs that surely he would be much more careful the next time against the pats.Little did i know how wrong i would be. If he had just thrown the ball away all those times instead of being stupid trying to force it in there,they would have had a much better chance of winning that game. He is still young but so far,im not impressed with him at all like I am with wilson and RG 3 before he got hurt.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 13, 2014)

HUGGY said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
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yeah like the texans for example. great defense,no offence.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 13, 2014)

[OTE=Samson;8927140]





rightwinger said:


> I would not risk an overall #1 on Manziel. If you want an undersized QB you can get one in the second round
> 
> A player like Clowney comes around every five years or so. If they want a stretch, take Khalil Mack...he will be a better player than Manziel



If size mattered as much as this thread has emphasises it could, then how did Manziel play out the last season?QU

How different in size are Manziel and Wilson?



Frankly all this noise about size seems to be only a red herring, diverting attention from other key components of successful quarterbacks: Scrambing Talent, speed, intelligence, ice under pressure, passion to win, loyalty of team, great receivers.[/QUOTE]

i mentioned that earlier,put agent rightwinger whenever he is cornered,played dodgeball like he always does and ignored it when i shot down that argument of his size. thats WHY i keep saying you just dont pass him up cause he has all those traits you just mentioned which are more valuable than size.


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## HUGGY (Apr 13, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...



I'm thinking Johnnie Football would fare better in the AFC than the NFC.  It seems to me that the better corners and safeties are in the NFC.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 13, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > I remember hearing a couple years ago from a friend of mine to look out for a guy known as Johnny Football and I never forgot his name because what he told me blew me away.
> ...



but thats what I keep saying,the last time the NFL drafted a quarterback in a late round that turned out to be great before wilson was brady and that was like what,15 years ago?. the risk is just too great. you want to merely just make the playoffs and never get to the superbowl,take clowney then.having a great QB and a so so QB can only take you so far,it cant get you to the big dance that is unless you have the best special teams in the league which is how ther bears did it last time,great defense and the best special teams in the NFL.


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## JWBooth (Apr 13, 2014)

hjmick said:


> For me, it's a combination of things...
> 
> 
> As an Aggies fan, I love Johnny Fucking Football. After what happened with David Carr and Matt Schaub, I'd like my favorite college QB to go somewhere his offensive line won't get him killed and shorten his career. As a Texans fan I recognize their need for a QB, but I also know they need some work on the offensive line.
> ...


Carr never recovered from being a tackling dummy for NFL defenses.
You got no offensive line, it don't matter how good your quarterback is.
Archie Manning was a great QB, but he spent his career face down or on his back in Tulane stadium.


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## rightwinger (Apr 13, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> [OTE=Samson;8927140]
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i mentioned that earlier,put agent rightwinger whenever he is cornered,played dodgeball like he always does and ignored it when i shot down that argument of his size. thats WHY i keep saying you just dont pass him up cause he has all those traits you just mentioned which are more valuable than size.[/QUOTE]

He is about the size of Wilson. You can pick up a Wilson type QB in the second or third round.  Waste an overall number one on Manziel?  I don't think so. 

If Wilson were available in the draft right now, I would not take him as an overall  number one


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 13, 2014)

HUGGY said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



oh yeah the AFC is so weak I think he would do well in that conference a couple years from now.The Texans,Jags and the Browns will be one of the teams he winds up with.i again am hoping the raiders take him so when I see him play twice a year when my chargers face them.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 13, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



  I'd still take Luck over Johnny.
Luck's still young and I believe he has the ability to get better. Was he a world beater last year? Absolutely not,but he did show he can be a top notch QB.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 13, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> [OTE=Samson;8927140]
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i mentioned that earlier,put agent rightwinger whenever he is cornered,played dodgeball like he always does and ignored it when i shot down that argument of his size. thats WHY i keep saying you just dont pass him up cause he has all those traits you just mentioned which are more valuable than size.[/QUOTE]

   Seattle didnt win because of Wilson. Few undersized QBs win in the NFL which is why the Texans wont gamble on Johnny.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 13, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
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  There are more QBs picked in later rounds that went to the Super Bowl then 1.1 picks over the years.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 13, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > [OTE=Samson;8927140]
> ...



   Seattle didnt win because of Wilson. Few undersized QBs win in the NFL which is why the Texans wont gamble on Johnny.[/QUOTE]


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## rightwinger (Apr 13, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
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[/QUOTE]

Manziel= Doug Flutie

If he is lucky


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 13, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > HereWeGoAgain said:
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Manziel= Doug Flutie

If he is lucky[/QUOTE]


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 13, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > HereWeGoAgain said:
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[/QUOTE]

  Why do my post keep coming up under the name of the person I'm trying to quote?


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 13, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > HereWeGoAgain said:
> ...


[/QUOTE]

  We dont often agree. But you obviously know your shit when it comes to football.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 14, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > I remember hearing a couple years ago from a friend of mine to look out for a guy known as Johnny Football and I never forgot his name because what he told me blew me away.
> ...



Wilson has yet to get killed.RG wouldnt have been hurt near as bad as he was and been inaccurate this past year if not for that dipshit idiot Shannahan who let him keep playing hurt knowing the risks.shannahan should never be allowed to be a coach again. the proof is in the pudding he is overrated and it was john elway that made him look like a genius.Since he lost Elway,he has shown what an ovarrated hack he is. and that thing on tom brady is just my point ibeen saying all along,you got to go back 15 years or so before wilson to find a quarterback in the late round that panned out.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 14, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > Manziel= Doug Flutie
> ...



  We dont often agree. But you obviously know your shit when it comes to football. [/QUOTE]

He obviously has reading and memory comprehension problems cause thats how he ALWAYS acts in his debates.

I love that warped logic of his,Manzeil at 6'1" is somehow comparable to being undersized to flutie who was around 5'8".He sure does provide comedy relief arouind here doesnt he?


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 14, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > HereWeGoAgain said:
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thats because most dont have the rare talent that mr football has.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 14, 2014)

Samson said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > The fact that you debate whether Manziel will be a good NFL QB or not, means he is not the first pick in the draft.
> ...


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 14, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > The fact that you debate whether Manziel will be a good NFL QB or not, means he is not the first pick in the draft.
> ...



Looks like you were asleep when wilson and the seahawks had the ball.Lets see they were down 10- nothing agaisnt the niners who had been in the championship game the year before,he only hit kearse in the end zone on a 3rd and 15 i believe it was with two defenders all over him,and hit doug baldwin on a 4th and 9 keeping the drive alive against the saints,a key to their victory in that game as they later scored a touchdown.Yep wilsons not a stand out quarterback alright.thats typical of youir average normal qb to make plays like that in clutch situations.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 14, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > HereWeGoAgain said:
> ...



He obviously has reading and memory comprehension problems cause thats how he ALWAYS acts in his debates.

I love that warped logic of his,Manzeil at 6'1" is somehow comparable to being undersized to flutie who was around 5'8".He sure does provide comedy relief arouind here doesnt he?[/QUOTE]

   He's actually 5'11" and 3/4"


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 14, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > HereWeGoAgain said:
> ...



which assures them of becoming like the kansas city chiefs of the 90's making it to the playoffs but never advancing to the superbowl  if they follow your lead.

pass up on Manziel and build a great defense with your first choice being used on Clowner and settle for an unproven quarterback over an entire season in mallet.thats the formula to take if yeah,you just want to settle for making it to the playoffs but never making it to the big dance.

I'll take the formula the colts and cowboys did with manning and aikman any day of the year,use the no 1 pick on manziel and buiold the the team around the quarterback,without the cool hand of a talented QB,you can forget the big dance,just ask the chiefs from the 1990's or the steelers from that decade as well who had an excellent defense but a flash in the pan QB named kordell stewart who never could advance them any further than the AFC title game.

got to go with the quarterback.its way too risky to pass up and HOPE mallet pans out.that seldom ever works out.


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## rightwinger (Apr 14, 2014)

Don't be surprised if the Texans trade out of the number one spot for a shitload of picks. If the Texans don't want Clowney, I think Atlanta would trade up to get him


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 14, 2014)

Russel was ranked 13th overall last year,but no doubt he stepped up when it counted. But that doesnt change the fact that Seattle won with D.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 14, 2014)

Papageorgio said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



yet they never would have advanced to the superbowl with an incompetent QB had they not drafted wilson.just ask the chiefs and the steelers in the 90's how things worked out for them with a great defense but not a good competent proven quarterback..


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 14, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > bottles is considered a better prospect than Manziel. Manziel is a run then throw QB, it doesn't work real well. He is short, which doesn't mean he won't be good but name all the short QB's that are top tier QBs.
> ...



yeah wilson is not a stand out QB thats why he made all these clutchaccurate throws downfield in ther playoffs  under extreme pressure all the time.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 14, 2014)

Samson said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > bottles is considered a better prospect than Manziel. Manziel is a run then throw QB, it doesn't work real well. He is short, which doesn't mean he won't be good but name all the short QB's that are top tier QBs.
> ...



there you have it,



First Kurt warner has nothing but great praise for him,Now Roger Staubach.two guys who know a little something about being a great quarterback more than any of us do thats for sure.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 14, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...



  He's rare talent in college ball. I just dont think his style of football translates well to the NFL. I could be wrong but history is on my side.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 14, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



   Whoever BoB picks I'll get behind,the guy is an offensive genius. If he picks Manziel so be it.
    But from what I've gleaned over the last few months Johnny doesnt fit his ideal of a   QB in his style offense.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 15, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> natstew said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a Texans fan, and as one I hope they pick Clowney first, then pray that Bortles is left for the second round.
> ...



where you going to find one to take you to the big dance though.It  wont be Mallek..


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 15, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



well duh,Luck has had TWO years under his belt in the NFL starting so thats a bad comparison.Its too early to tell right now since its only his second year but so far Luck has shown me with his play he is another Peyton Manning and Dan Marino.someone who looks great during the regular season but chokes in big games.

Luck has not impressed me like wilson has.again that was pretty asinine for him to throw 3 interceptions against the pats not learning his lesson the week before against the chiefs.wilson,he never makes the same mistake twice in back to back games,he corrects those mistake the following week.Till Luck does that,Im not impressed with him so far.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 15, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Russel was ranked 13th overall last year,but no doubt he stepped up when it counted. But that doesnt change the fact that Seattle won with D.



Yeah during the last 4 games of the season  wilson struggled  and the defense won it for them in that stretch.However without his amazing plays he made in the clutch when the game was on the line in the playoffs,no way do the Hawks defense alone advance them to the superbowl and win it.Had the Hawks had a QB like Grbec,Bonehead,or Slash Stewart,they go nowhere past the first round without having a clutch QB like russel.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 15, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...



I dont care if the Texans dont take him,I just think they are fools if they dont.since it looks like they will pass up on him,they will be doing me a favor.I hope the raiders take him so when my Chargers play them,I will have a chance to see him play twice a year.so its all good for me if the Texans want to pass up on him.that is if The Browns dont  take him first.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 15, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > Manziel= Doug Flutie
> ...



  We dont often agree. But you obviously know your shit when it comes to football. [/QUOTE]

actually no he doesnt.He was dense enough to pick the donkeys to win the superbowl. despite how Huggy said the seahawks would win the superbowl before the season started.He couldnt grasp it that the real superbwol was the Hawks/niners game.I kept saying the whole week leading up that that game the winner of that game was going to win the superbowl.It was so obvious they would win it easily.The hawks were healthy where the donkesy were banged up and had too many key injurys. I would have thought since he was aware that manning always chokes in the big game that he would have wised up about him by now. some people never learn though.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 15, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > We dont often agree. But you obviously know your shit when it comes to football.
> ...



   He's actually 5'11" and 3/4"[/QUOTE]

Oh Really? Better call wiki and tell them you have facts to disprove them then.

Johnny Manziel
Football player


Jonathan Paul Manziel, also known by his nickname "Johnny Football", is an American football quarterback. He was nationally recruited out of high school as a dual-threat quarterback. Wikipedia

Born: December 6, 1992 (age 21), Tyler, TX

Weight: 209 lbs (95 kg)

"Height: 6' 1" (1.85 m):


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 15, 2014)

I can tottally understand why Kurt Warner and Roger Staubach after looking at this footage said WOW!!! 

amazing is right.

Notice that while there indeed were many times he took off and ran with the ball,He also dropped back in the pocket and threw the ball down the field accurately? 

Its extremely rare that you see a QB like this who makes something out of nothing like when he went up the middle in the video and it looked like the end of him,only he bounced off it and completed the pass.That just made me go wow!!!!  He also reminded me of Russel wilson there the way he dropped back and turned around and completed the pass.

Wilson is the same kind of scrambler Johnny is and unlike his counterpart Kapernick,he has learned from being in the NFL to instead of automatically running with the ball most the time when he drops back,he looks to pass FIRST now that he is in the pros.

Johnny can do the same thing.Learn to look to pass first in the pocket and only take off when nothings there like Wilson does.

you wont like this Hug,but his play reminds me an awful lot of Wilson.This guy has some major potential that I would not pass up on if I was the texans or the Lambs in st louis according to all the mock drafts apparently are going to do.


You also got to remember,Steve Young was exactly like Johnny Football in college as well.Would always take off and run first when he got the ball instead of dropping back to look downfield and pass first but after his first couple years he made the adjustment.

Young and Wilson, two college scramblers in their heydey converted to being a passer and one is in the hall of fame and there is no reason to believe the other wont join him in the future.

Young made it through most his career without any major injurys till late in his career when he could not take hit to the helmet anymore and Wilson has yet to sustain any injurys either. 

If the Texans want to be fools and pass up a major talent with great potential like this guy has,well then I feel sorry for them.This is rare talent you dont see everyday. someone mentioned they would take Borders and bridgewater first over manziel.okay whatever.

and you want to tell me there arent any quarterbacks in the college draft that are not worth a first round pick? okay,whatever.

If this was any other year I would alugh my ass off that that team in st louis would pass on him since i alwasy root for them to lose all the time but since my Rams look to be back in LA next year,I will be pissed if they pass up on him like they are talking about and they are indeed the LA RAMS again knowing they could have had such a great talent in their long history of great quarterback in their 49 history out there on the west coast.

Johnny may not succeed immediately right off the bat like wilson did,but give him a couple years and look out. Bortles and Bridgewater I think will be good to and they look impressive also.Not to the extremes Johnny does though.This kid looks to be special.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 15, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



Oh Really? Better call wiki and tell them you have facts to disprove them then.

Johnny Manziel
Football player


Jonathan Paul Manziel, also known by his nickname "Johnny Football", is an American football quarterback. He was nationally recruited out of high school as a dual-threat quarterback. Wikipedia

Born: December 6, 1992 (age 21), Tyler, TX

Weight: 209 lbs (95 kg)

"Height: 6' 1" (1.85 m):[/QUOTE]

The NFL's official reports:Johnny Manziel?s official measurements released | Q

 511 and ¾ inches, 207 pound. 

Looks like Wikipedia is wrong and so are you. Nice try though.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 15, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > [OTE=Samson;8927140]
> ...



   Seattle didnt win because of Wilson. Few undersized QBs win in the NFL which is why the Texans wont gamble on Johnny.[/QUOTE]

you go to seattle and tell Huggy or anybody there that Wilsons clutch throws in the playoffs and his scrambing keeping plays alive to keep the chains moving were not major factors in them getting to and winning the superbowl and they will laugh their asses off at you.

sure seattle had a great defense that  was a major factor in getting them there and winning games in the regular season but had they had not a great quarterback who makes all the players on the team better players than they are in wilson whos key leadership was just as much of a major factor,had they not had him and he had been injury prone and they were stuck with their worthless backup Tavarious jackson in the playoffs down the stretch,they go one and done in the playoffs without his steady hand at quarterback. again wilson makes all the players around him better than they are,they feed off him.He is a rare talent.

This kid johnny football looks to be an extremely rare talant as well that I just dont pass up and hope the rams sure as hell dont either.


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## rightwinger (Apr 15, 2014)

Manziel can be a decent QB in the right system where he isn't expected to carry the team. Overall number one QBs are not afforded that luxury

Look at Jim Plunkett, David Carr and Alex Smith

Mid first round is about right. Texans should either take Clowney or trade down


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 15, 2014)

Papageorgio said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > HereWeGoAgain said:
> ...



The NFL's official reports:Johnny Manziel?s official measurements released | Q

 511 and ¾ inches, 207 pound. 


Looks like Wikipedia is wrong and so are you. Nice try though.[/QUOTE]

they are always wrong on things about the government always holding back key facts so I usually dont use them,I figured they at LEAST would get facts right about sports though since you CANT cover that up. just shows you cant believe a single thing wiki ever posts.


Oh well. everybody passed up wilson as well who is the same height and they are all kicking themselves now.

further proof you cant believe a single word wiki ever says.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 16, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > HereWeGoAgain said:
> ...



actually no he doesnt.He was dense enough to pick the donkeys to win the superbowl. despite how Huggy said the seahawks would win the superbowl before the season started.He couldnt grasp it that the real superbwol was the Hawks/niners game.I kept saying the whole week leading up that that game the winner of that game was going to win the superbowl.It was so obvious they would win it easily.The hawks were healthy where the donkesy were banged up and had too many key injurys. I would have thought since he was aware that manning always chokes in the big game that he would have wised up about him by now. some people never learn though.[/QUOTE]

  True that. As good as Manning is,he does have a disturbing habit of choking in big games.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 16, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> Manziel can be a decent QB in the right system where he isn't expected to carry the team. Overall number one QBs are not afforded that luxury
> 
> Look at Jim Plunkett, David Carr and Alex Smith
> 
> Mid first round is about right. Texans should either take Clowney or trade down



  I wouldnt mind if they picked Khalil Mack.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 16, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



Oh Really? Better call wiki and tell them you have facts to disprove them then.

Johnny Manziel
Football player


Jonathan Paul Manziel, also known by his nickname "Johnny Football", is an American football quarterback. He was nationally recruited out of high school as a dual-threat quarterback. Wikipedia

Born: December 6, 1992 (age 21), Tyler, TX

Weight: 209 lbs (95 kg)

"Height: 6' 1" (1.85 m):[/QUOTE]

   Yes really...


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## rightwinger (Apr 16, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Manziel can be a decent QB in the right system where he isn't expected to carry the team. Overall number one QBs are not afforded that luxury
> ...



University of Buffalo


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 16, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



  Yep. He's a bad ass no doubt. Love to see him and Cushing bustin heads.
Would arguably be the best LB duo in the NFL.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 19, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> Manziel can be a decent QB in the right system where he isn't expected to carry the team. Overall number one QBs are not afforded that luxury
> 
> Look at Jim Plunkett, David Carr and Alex Smith
> 
> Mid first round is about right. Texans should either take Clowney or trade down



The problem if they take clowney with their first pick though is you got to hope that you snatch a Wilson in the middle round somewhere and like i have said many times,that is rare that ever happens.Brady being the last one before wilson  that was snached in a late round everyone overlooked which was like,what 15 years ago.If i am the GM,i draft him in the first round,keep him on the bench a couple years like san fran did with steve young,then make him the starter and build the team around him.just because he is first round pick,they shouldnt put the pressure on him to start immediately.

oh and glad you liked my last post.thats a rare thing from you.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 19, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > We dont often agree. But you obviously know your shit when it comes to football.
> ...



  True that. As good as Manning is,he does have a disturbing habit of choking in big games.[/QUOTE]

yeah he only won the superbowl game against the bears because the only reason the bears got there that year was because of their defense and special teams despite the play of a lousy quarterback.thats the only time i can remember a really lousy quarterback getting you to teh big game was that year when now journeyman rex grossman was the qb. they got to the superbowl and their luck of special teams running kickoffs back for touchdowns and defense winning the game for them ran out on them because the plays on special teams were there and the defense was on the field all day long cause of grossmans innacurate throws.

they could have had the Bears 85 defense on the field that day and it would not have made a difference.when you are on the field all day long,you cant hold them off forever,they did for a while but the bears had so many 3 and outs on offense,their defense was on the field all day long and eventually got too tired to rush the passer.because of that,Manning was eventually able to pick them apart having all day long to stay back there and make reads down the field.


lets look at the three superbowls he was in. the one he won came against a reject washed up quarterback who is now a journeyman backup that hasnt thrown a pass in several years. the two losses came against two quarterbacks who both look to be sure future hall of famers. when he plays against top notch competion in big games,he chokes unlike little brother.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 19, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > HereWeGoAgain said:
> ...



   Yes really...[/QUOTE]

I already acknowledged i was wrong about that.read post #6.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 19, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



I already acknowledged i was wrong about that.read post #6.[/QUOTE]

Just reinforcing how knowledgable you are.


Sent from my iPad using an Android.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 21, 2014)

Papageorgio said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > HereWeGoAgain said:
> ...



Just reinforcing how knowledgable you are.


Sent from my iPad using an Android.[/QUOTE]

I would say thats correct that Im very knowledgeable about football.


 was I fool that so many others were here to actually believe the donkeys would win the superbowl  despite having a QB that had a long history of choking in big games?

I fail to see how many people could have been so dense to think he would have any chance against that defense. you cant complete a pass when your receiver is covered all the time and your line is getting manhandled.I tried to explain that to everybody here but it just went through one ear and out the other with the majority.

Here is the proof in the pudding I knew beyond a doubt it was going to be a blowout.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/sport...ng-the-broncos-to-win-forget-these-facts.html

amazing how there were only a couple others out there i saw who was smart enough to understand what i knew,that the team that won the NFC championship game was the team that would win the superbowl.that only a couple others here understood that here besides me.Understanding the REAL superbowl was going to be the niners/seahawks game.

even Richard Sherman grugingly said the same thing here below.he said this grudgingly about the niners because of the rivalry.

The NFC Championship was the Super Bowl,&#8221; Sherman says. &#8220;The 49ers were the second-best team in the NFL.&#8221;


It didnt take a genius to see what was right in front of everybodys faces that myself and only a couple others saw.It doesnt take a genius to see that a team that was going into the game healthy but the other team had some key injurys,who would win,plus a quarterback who always chokes against top notch competition.it hardly took a genus to be able to figure out what the obvious outcome would be,yet most posters here couldnt somehow see what was right on front of their eyes.

oh and as I said before,seldom do i ever use wikipedia because they leave out key facts in their version of events when it concerns government corruption. you would think they would be accurate though on something like this they CANT coverup.

Like the newspapers people receive,what the papers report on events that happen as far as government corruption is concerned is altogether different than what actually happened,they leave out key details and facts that dont go along with their version of events but when it comes to the sports page,thats too big a thing, so they cant lie and HAVE to report the facts about a  football team for instance.they cant say they  won when they really lost because of too many witnesses there who know better.

well i figured wikipedia would follow the same pattern,yeah they lie about government corruption all the time,but why would they be stupid enough to lie about sports,what do they gain by THAT? Government events i understand lying about,the media is only a tool for the government,they dont do any real investigation,buy WHY would they lie about a fact like that/ that doesnt make any sense,what do they have to gain on lying about manziel? that just doesnt make any sense so i figured i could at LEAST trust them abotu sports.

looks like you cant trust wiki on ANYTHING though obviously.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 21, 2014)

heres a really good article on manziel. It lists both his strengths and weakenesses,His strenghts looks like they oversome his weaknesses though. I liked what Kurt warner had to say about him.again I cant believe anybody like the texans and ramsn  here would want to pass up a guy who made a swish shot from nosebleed sections in a football stadium acting as though its a normal regular everyday thing that quarterbacks do all the time.someone was talking about a once in a generation quarterback,if he disciplines himself and can tame his off field activites,this is that once in a generation quarterback someone mentioned earlier.

2014 NFL draft top 64, No. 13: Quarterback Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M | Audibles - SI.com


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## HUGGY (Apr 21, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



I would say thats correct that Im very knowledgeable about football.


 was I fool that so many others were here to actually believe the donkeys would win the superbowl  despite having a QB that had a long history of choking in big games?

I fail to see how many people could have been so dense to think he would have any chance against that defense. you cant complete a pass when your receiver is covered all the time and your line is getting manhandled.I tried to explain that to everybody here but it just went through one ear and other the other with the majority.

Here is the proof in the pudding I knew beyond a doubt it was going to be a blowout.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/sport...ng-the-broncos-to-win-forget-these-facts.html

amazing how there were only a couple others out there i saw who was smart enough to understand what i knew,that the team that won the NFC championship game was the team that would win the superbowl.that only a couple others here understood that here besides me.Understanding the REAL superbowl was going to be the niners/seahawks game.

It didnt take a genius to see what was right in front of everybodys faces that myself and only a couple others saw.It doesnt take a genius to see that a team that was going into the game healthy but the other team had some key injurys,who would win,plus a quarterback who always chokes against top notch competition.it hardly took a genus to be able to figure out what the obvious outcome would be,yet most posters here couldnt somehow see what was right on front of their eyes.

oh and as I said before,seldom do i ever use wikipedia because they leave out key facts in their version of events when it concerns government corruption. you would think they would be accurate though on something like this they CANT coverup.

Like the newspapers people receive,what the papers report on events that happen as far as government corruption is concerned is altogether different than what actually happened,they leave out key details and facts that dont go along with their version of events but when it comes to the sports page,thats too big a thing, so they cant lie and HAVE to report the facts about a  football team for instance.they cant say they  won when they really lost because of too many witnesses there who know better.

well i figured wikipedia would follow the same pattern,yeah they lie about government corruption all the time,but why would they be stupid enough to lie about sports,what do they gain by THAT? Government events i understand lying about,the media is only a tool for the government,they dont do any real investigation,buy WHY would they lie about a fact like that/ that doesnt make any sense,what do they have to gain on lying about manziel? that just doesnt make any sense so i figured i could at LEAST trust them abotu sports.

looks like you cant trust wiki on ANYTHING though obviously.[/QUOTE]

Wiki doesn't lie.  Exactly...The problem is that anybody can edit Wiki and "facts" get changed or ommited by people with an axe to grind.  The problem is that Wiki doesn't police very effectively.  Manzeil probably changed the height thing himself.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 21, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



I would say thats correct that Im very knowledgeable about football.


 was I fool that so many others were here to actually believe the donkeys would win the superbowl  despite having a QB that had a long history of choking in big games?

I fail to see how many people could have been so dense to think he would have any chance against that defense. you cant complete a pass when your receiver is covered all the time and your line is getting manhandled.I tried to explain that to everybody here but it just went through one ear and out the other with the majority.

Here is the proof in the pudding I knew beyond a doubt it was going to be a blowout.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/sport...ng-the-broncos-to-win-forget-these-facts.html

amazing how there were only a couple others out there i saw who was smart enough to understand what i knew,that the team that won the NFC championship game was the team that would win the superbowl.that only a couple others here understood that here besides me.Understanding the REAL superbowl was going to be the niners/seahawks game.

even Richard Sherman grugingly said the same thing here below.he said this grudgingly about the niners because of the rivalry.

The NFC Championship was the Super Bowl, Sherman says. The 49ers were the second-best team in the NFL.


It didnt take a genius to see what was right in front of everybodys faces that myself and only a couple others saw.It doesnt take a genius to see that a team that was going into the game healthy but the other team had some key injurys,who would win,plus a quarterback who always chokes against top notch competition.it hardly took a genus to be able to figure out what the obvious outcome would be,yet most posters here couldnt somehow see what was right on front of their eyes.

oh and as I said before,seldom do i ever use wikipedia because they leave out key facts in their version of events when it concerns government corruption. you would think they would be accurate though on something like this they CANT coverup.

Like the newspapers people receive,what the papers report on events that happen as far as government corruption is concerned is altogether different than what actually happened,they leave out key details and facts that dont go along with their version of events but when it comes to the sports page,thats too big a thing, so they cant lie and HAVE to report the facts about a  football team for instance.they cant say they  won when they really lost because of too many witnesses there who know better.

well i figured wikipedia would follow the same pattern,yeah they lie about government corruption all the time,but why would they be stupid enough to lie about sports,what do they gain by THAT? Government events i understand lying about,the media is only a tool for the government,they dont do any real investigation,buy WHY would they lie about a fact like that/ that doesnt make any sense,what do they have to gain on lying about manziel? that just doesnt make any sense so i figured i could at LEAST trust them abotu sports.

looks like you cant trust wiki on ANYTHING though obviously.[/QUOTE]

You jumped from the Seattle ship against the 49ers, you were wrong.

So you are not any better than others. 


Sent from my iPad using an Android.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 22, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Manziel can be a decent QB in the right system where he isn't expected to carry the team. Overall number one QBs are not afforded that luxury
> ...



I saw that predicted.  Looks like an excellent choice.  Manziel is a potential nightmare with some serious skills.  Clowney has tons of talent but questionable work ethic, so he may be a bust too.

Mack looks like the real deal and would be an instant asset.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 22, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> heres a really good article on manziel. It lists both his strengths and weakenesses,His strenghts looks like they oversome his weaknesses though. I liked what Kurt warner had to say about him.again I cant believe anybody like the texans and ramsn  here would want to pass up a guy who made a swish shot from nosebleed sections in a football stadium acting as though its a normal regular everyday thing that quarterbacks do all the time.someone was talking about a once in a generation quarterback,if he disciplines himself and can tame his off field activites,this is that once in a generation quarterback someone mentioned earlier.
> 
> 2014 NFL draft top 64, No. 13: Quarterback Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M | Audibles - SI.com



But the question of whether he can discipline himself is a big one.  He started a world of shit flying last year, and it looked like he never slowed down.  I see him self-destructing in a very short time.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 22, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



  In my mind it's between Mack and Clowney,with BQBA in the second.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 22, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > heres a really good article on manziel. It lists both his strengths and weakenesses,His strenghts looks like they oversome his weaknesses though. I liked what Kurt warner had to say about him.again I cant believe anybody like the texans and ramsn  here would want to pass up a guy who made a swish shot from nosebleed sections in a football stadium acting as though its a normal regular everyday thing that quarterbacks do all the time.someone was talking about a once in a generation quarterback,if he disciplines himself and can tame his off field activites,this is that once in a generation quarterback someone mentioned earlier.
> ...



   Way to many questions as far as Johnny goes. No way I would take him in the first or second for that matter.
  I just dont believe his style of football will work in the NFL.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 22, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> WinterBorn said:
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He is a very accurate passer, but his style of scrambling will see him hurt in his first season.


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## rightwinger (Apr 22, 2014)

Report: Texans prefer Khalil Mack over Jadeveon Clowney | FOX Sports on MSN


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 22, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


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yeah they had a special on him the other night.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 22, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
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> 
> > heres a really good article on manziel. It lists both his strengths and weakenesses,His strenghts looks like they oversome his weaknesses though. I liked what Kurt warner had to say about him.again I cant believe anybody like the texans and ramsn  here would want to pass up a guy who made a swish shot from nosebleed sections in a football stadium acting as though its a normal regular everyday thing that quarterbacks do all the time.someone was talking about a once in a generation quarterback,if he disciplines himself and can tame his off field activites,this is that once in a generation quarterback someone mentioned earlier.
> ...


It depends on if he is alined with an excellent mentor or not.Somone like pete carrol for instance would be able to reel him in.now if he got stuck with a coach like harbaugh then thats trouble for him.


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## rightwinger (Apr 22, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


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As a University of Buffalo grad, I would love to see Mack go number 1

I think Buffalo only has one player in  the NFL right now


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 22, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


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roger staubach and kurt warner disagree with you.sorry im going to listen to staubach and warner.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 22, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


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not if he can be reeled in and be more discilined in the pocket.steve young and breat farve had the same style he has and it worked out pretty good for both of them.they bother in their very early careers played recklessly as well scarmbing around first  and not looking to pass.Young in the very beginning especially ,was always looking to run first before passing but later made the adustment to pass first in the pocket and THEN scramble only if nothing was there,no reason to believe the same thing cant happen for manziel.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 22, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


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He is a grown man.  Are you telling me that his success depends on whether he can get a nanny to try and control him??

So the millions of dollars to play a sport isn't enough, he has to have someone cajole him into behaving like a grownup??

I think that speaks volumes about why teams are questioning his value.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 22, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


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No reason except that Manziel has shown he does not listen to his coaching staff particularly well.

Look, he has tons of talent.  Whether that could translate into a good NFL career is up to him.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 22, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


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   Steve Young and Brett Favre are both 6"2'. When you're 5" 11' 3/4' standing in the pocket becomes a little more problematic. Leaving the pocket is a sign he cant see over the linemen,which will only get worse in the NFL.
   That and of course having the physique of a stickman aint gonna help when they catch up to him.....which we all know is going to happen at some point.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 22, 2014)

2,169 yards rushing in two seasons at Texas A&M, 30 rushing TDs. Too many running yards, in the NFL that means injuries. 

7,820 yds passing 63 TDs, 22 Int. Good numbers, his style is not a typical NFL QB.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 22, 2014)

Papageorgio said:


> 2,169 yards rushing in two seasons at Texas A&M, 30 rushing TDs. Too many running yards, in the NFL that means injuries.
> 
> 7,820 yds passing 63 TDs, 22 Int. Good numbers, his style is not a typical NFL QB.



  Not questioning his college skills by any stretch.
If he is around and all our other choices were gone in the second? I'd hold my nose and pick him.


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## hangover (Apr 24, 2014)

I think I heard Manziel is going to Dallas, and Shaub went to the Raiders. I thought the Raiders were going to get smarter when Al Davis checked out. Pft!


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 24, 2014)

hangover said:


> I think I heard Manziel is going to Dallas, and Shaub went to the Raiders. I thought the Raiders were going to get smarter when Al Davis checked out. Pft!



  Who knows whats going to happen with Ben Taub Schaub.
The guy has set some passing records over the years and could actually get his game back in new surroundings.
   But it's possible that Lisfranc injury ended his career. It appears that he's never been the same since.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 24, 2014)

HUGGY said:


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Wiki doesn't lie.  Exactly...The problem is that anybody can edit Wiki and "facts" get changed or ommited by people with an axe to grind.  The problem is that Wiki doesn't police very effectively.  Manzeil probably changed the height thing himself.[/QUOTE]

yep,that pretty much sumes it up,they can edit anything they want to there so its unriable.


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## Rocko (Apr 24, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> > I think the Bills should take him at number 9. I'm not sold on EJ manuel.
> ...



True. There has been rumors of the bills trading up to 1 to take Clowney, which I think would be a mistake. We're already good enough on the defensive side of the ball, while I'm sure Clowney is a stud, what we need is a QB. If the Bills are going to trade up it should be for either Manziel or Bortles. Now I'm not really a college football fan, so I can't say I've seen either of those guys play, but judging by their highlights (which I know there's more to it than that) I take Manziel without much consideration.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 24, 2014)

hangover said:


> I think I heard Manziel is going to Dallas, and Shaub went to the Raiders. I thought the Raiders were going to get smarter when Al Davis checked out. Pft!



like father like son. Naw I dont think manziel will be around for dallas to take him.I see jacksonville surprising everyone and taking him with the 3rd pick.they need something to get that doorman franchise excited again and mack as good as he is,wont do it in jacksonville if they sign him like some in the mock draft think they will.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 24, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


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as I said earlier,Wilson is 5"11' as well,i guarantee you every NFL team is cursing themselves for passing up on him right now,a guy who is very similair to manziel but listens more carefully to his coach. we've seen lots of prospects grow up once they got into the NFL and shed their ways in college.no reason manziel cant do the same.just have to wait and see how badly he wants to play in the NFL.that is something none of us know but him.that if he is hungry like wilson


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 24, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


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he already has the money,his family is rich so money isnt an issue for him.the fact he is coming out of college so early tells me he has the passion and love to play pro football the same way that farve always did.farve wasnt playing the game for the love of the money like most players in the NFL do,he was doing it for the love of the game and cause he had so much fun with it.

He would take a hit and pat that guy on the shoulder and say good hit while on the ground.a rare player that loved the game till the end. I see lots of similaritys between him and farve.I see him as  the same type of a wilson,farve,and young,mostly farve with his improvisation and reckless skills.farve was reckless as well but was tough and never got hurt. 

 you ALSO got to remember,that a lot of people around the NFL didnt think farve was going to amount to anything either in the beginning being as undisciplined in the pocket  when he came into the NFL which is why every team passed him up and he went in the second round.The Falcons were so much worried about that thinking his recklessness would be a disaster,they made the worst mistake in their lives that they could kills themselves for now.trading him away that fatefal day to the green bay packers who overlooked that and saw the greatness that was waiting in him. 

you just KNOW all those teams were cursing themselves all those years while farve was playing with the packers knowing some of them had a chance to get him just like they are kicking themselves right now at this very minute for listening to people here like yourself to all the negatives about wilson,that he would be a project and would take a couple years of seasoning before being succesful in the league,questioning if he would succeeed because of his height.

 i guarantee thay hate themselves right now for listening to all the naysayers that he would be a project,that he is risky because of his height.they are all pulling the hair out of their head right now.

not many are as tough as farve was granted but wilson has yet to get hurt and he plays somewhat like him.

there have been lots  of players coming out of college that were immature coming out but got reeled in later.No reason to think manziel cant grow up just liek they did.that will be his choice though of course.

I see no reason why he cant make the adjustment like young did after a few years in the NFL from a scrambler to a pocket passer.Wilson at 5'11 as well has done the same thing,no reason to think manziel cant do it as well within two years. 

I dont see him being a colin kapernick who unlike wilson,looks to run FIRST before passing.I see him in two years down the road,playing alot like wilson,inspiring people and making them better players just like wilson does.

Lots of players coming straight out of college had to have coachs cajol them to reel them in to become mature in later years ever since the existance of football so would johnny be the first one to have neeeded it? obviously not.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 24, 2014)

Papageorgio said:


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You jumped from the Seattle ship against the 49ers, you were wrong.

So you are not any better than others. 


Sent from my iPad using an Android.[/QUOTE]

uh i never said i was any better than others,most people here kept saying the donkeys would win,being too stupid to not figure out what sherman already knew,that the niners were the second best team in the league. 

again you keep ignoring i said all the way up till that week whoever wins that game is gonna beat the donkeys cause only a fool would have picked them knowing how manning always chokes in the big game against top notch competition. only a fool would have picked them after forgetting the only reason the niners game was close was cause of kappys scrambling,that the hawks would be in heaven not having to worry about a qb that is the staute of liberty. i picked the ravens to beat the niners last year,but that time i did not go and say people were fools for picking the niners cause they didnt have a quarterback that was a statue of liberty playing who had a LONNGGGGGGG history of choking in the big game.

people who picked the niners to win that superbowl werent fools,the niners have a tough physical defense with a qb that can sramble and make soemthing out of nothing,the donkeys have neither of those ingrediants.plus a qb who panicks in big games so i at least wised uop and wasnt a fool like those fools were.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 24, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


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yeah if the texans pass on johnny,i think they should go after mack because i read what you just said,that clowney has questionable work ethic,that is a randy moss on defense,takes some plays off.they want to go with defense,then they should go with mack for the first pick.if they think jt whats his name is reliable enough to get them to the big dance under a strong defense,good luck to them,but thats quite a risk to take.


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## HUGGY (Apr 24, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


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More first round QBs fail than succeed.  

As far as comparing Wilson to Manzeil I don't see many parallels.  Wilson has stuck to his OWN developement program being dropped by NC State not for lack of skills but Wilson was told he could play baseball also and the school changed it's mind as Wilson completed his Junior year.  He transferred to Wisconsin where he was voted the team captain in Spring training and without missing a beat learned their system and took them to the Rose Bowl in his senior year.  Wilson's ability to set goals and acheive them are becoming legendary.  The comparison drawn to those two players has been for the most part been promoted by Johnnie Football.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 24, 2014)

Samson said:


> rightwinger said:
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> > I would not risk an overall #1 on Manziel. If you want an undersized QB you can get one in the second round
> ...



yeah WHY is that everytime someone wants to talk about his negatives,they ALWAYS bring up  the size thing when wilson,the same height of johnny,has proved,height is overrated.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 24, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> I can tottally understand why Kurt Warner and Roger Staubach after looking at this footage said WOW!!!
> 
> Johnny Manziel || The Amazing Johnny Football || 2013-14 Highlights - YouTube
> amazing is right.
> ...




he already has the money,his family is rich so money isnt an issue for him.the fact he is coming out of college so early tells me he has the passion and love to play pro football the same way that farve always did.farve wasnt playing the game for the love of the money like most players in the NFL do,he was doing it for the love of the game and cause he had so much fun with it.

He would take a hit and pat that guy on the shoulder and say good hit while on the ground.a rare player that loved the game till the end. I see lots of similaritys between him and farve.I see him as the same type of a wilson,farve,and young,mostly farve with his improvisation and reckless skills.farve was reckless as well but was tough and never got hurt. 

you ALSO got to remember,that a lot of people around the NFL didnt think farve was going to amount to anything either in the beginning being as unddisciplined in the pocket when he came into the NFL which is why many of them passed on him when the falcons released him. 

you just KNOW all those teams were cursing themselves all those years while farve was playing with the packers knowing some of them had a chance to get him just like they are kicking themselves right now at this very minute for listening to people here like yourself to all the negatives about wilson,that he would be a project and would take a couple years of seasoning before being succesful in the league,questioning if he would succeeed because of his height.

i guarantee thay hate themselves right now for listening to all the naysayers that he would be a project,that he is risky because of his height.they are all pulling the hair out of their head right now.

not many are as tough as farve was granted but wilson has yet to get hurt and he plays somewhat like him.

there have been lots of players coming out of college that were immature coming out but got reeled in later.No reason to think manziel cant grow up just liek they did.that will be his choice though of course.

I see no reason why he cant make the adjustment like young did after a few years in the NFL from a scrambler to a pocket passer.Wilson at 5'11 as well has done the same thing,no reason to think manziel cant do it as well within two years. 

I dont see him being a colin kapernick who unlike wilson,looks to run FIRST before passing.I see him in two years down the road,playing alot like wilson,inspiring people and making them better players just like wilson does.

Lots of players coming straight out of college had to have coachs cajol them to reel them in to become mature in later years ever since the existance of football so would johnny be the first one to have neeeded it? obviously not. 
__________________






I dont mean to toot my own horn here from these two previous posts I made above  but without trying to sound arrogant,I am really looking like a genius for saying those comments above earlier because John Gruden is pretty much saying the exact same thing that I just said in these two posts above  and through out  this thread  and I was making the comparison of manziel to both young and  farve even BEFORE I saw this article of John Gruden making the same comparison.

Here is an article I saw in USA TODAY this past weekend with Gruden talking saying he agrees with me,that Manziel is too good to pass up,that the texans should take him with the first pick.Here is is. the headline goes on to read-

MANZIEL'S "MAGIC" WORTH RISK,GRUDEN SAYS.it then goes on to say in the whole article-


The Houston texans are wrestling with a potential what-if nightmare with the No.1 pick in next months NFL draft.

what if they pass on Texas A&M star Johnny Manziel and the small town Texas quarterback with big play improvisational skills turns out to be the next Brett Farve?

John Gruden,who recently worked with manziel for his  GRUDEN QB CAMP series on ESPN,says the 2012 heisman trophy winner has the type of rare improvisational skills you wont want to regret passing up." 

"Its a big concern," Gruden,the superbowl XXXVII-winning coach of the tampa bay buccaneers,told USA TODAY sports."Johnny has a lot of magic to him.Theres not a more exciting college football player I've seen in the last few years.You want that club in your bag."

Gruden,who worked with Farve as a Green Bay Packers assistant coach from 1992 to 1994,says manziel stood out among the nine top quarterback draft prospects he interviewed and worked out.

"I had more fun with manziel than I did most guys." Gruden said."I'd love to have him.It takes courage to pull the ball down and reverse field and do some of the crazy things that farve and manziel do.Theres going to be consequences when sometimes it doesnt work out.But it takes a tremendous amount of guts and courage to go make a play when theres nothing there instead of throwing the ball away."

Gruden ALSO compared manziel to hall of fame quarterback steve young,who improvised and ran more earlier in his career.with some polish and direction,Gruden thinks the former AGGIES quarterback could have a bright future in the NFL.

"this kid [would have] two years left in the NCCA," Gruden said."so if you get him with a quarterback coach or anybody that aspires to be a quarterback coach and spend the time teaching this kid NFL defenses and your system,I cant imiagine Johnny not being successful."

Gruden thinks Manziel is a dynamic playmaker who would fit with Bill O' Brien and the former new england offensive coordinater would be the right coach to rein in manziel as a more disciplined pocket passer.

Gruden called Manziel out on his johnny football image and thinks manziel is sincere about distancing himself from the perceptions of him as a bad boy celebrity quarterback.

"Nobody is perfect,but you certainly dont want your quarterback flying around during the week-you dont want to read about your quarterback in the newspaper every day of the week." Gruden said."I think he's learned a lesson,but he's got to prove that."


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 24, 2014)

HUGGY said:


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yeah but were all those ones that failed highly rated by credible people like roger staubach,kurt warner,john gruden and many others? did they all go WOW,this guy is a rare extreme talent? I cant remember that far back, but im pretty sure they did not say that about san diego chargers bust from the past Ryan Leaf for example.

I serioulsy doubt all the others that were first round picks were an EXTREME RARE talent like johnny though.i would say thats the difference between him and the ones that failed.

I dont  recall well known people like those three for instance, raving over him like they did with peyton manning saying he is a must pick like they did with manning. amazing what a difference it makes having the number one pick over the second pick with leaf being the second pick in the draft behind manning doesnt it?

 I dont see Manziel being anything like the troublemaker Leaf was.Leaf was disaterous off the field getting into all kinds of trouble and let having bad games get to him unable to shrug it off which was eventually his downfall. Johnny looks too talented and determined to let things get to him likebust Leaf did.

Well there are a couple Parallels while not many.Manziel just like wilson,is only 5'11' right?
people have their doubts about manziel if he will do well in the pros right? 

Look how many people have come on here and questiond his height. Now if it werent for wilson I could see that but come on.

every team in the NFL also had very high doubts about wilson,never thinking he had a chance in the world to be great in the beginning,thinking he would be a long term project HOPING eventally 3 or 4 years down the road he would start playing well not seeing the greatness in him in the very beginning..overlooking him cause of his height.major mistake.

they both are the same height but not tall by quarterback standards.wilson they didnt think would be great obviously and people have their questions on johnny as well cause of the height being one of the factors. wilson heard his whole life he wouldnt make it to the pros cause of his height.well johnny is hearing the same thing.thats one.

johhny can reverse field and scramble around on the run just like wilson.thats two.

johnny has great improve skills as does wilson.just ask gruden.thats three.



has a strong accurate arm just like wilson did when he was in college.thats four.

Like i said,he has at least a COUPLE of them.


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## HUGGY (Apr 24, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


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I don't see abandoning your last two years as a college QB a smart choice.  Of all the positions in football the QB position takes the longest to develope.  Wilson busted his ass to get AS MUCH as he could out of his college football experience.  Not so with Manzeil.  

I don't think there are any short cuts to becoming a QB in the NFL.  All of this is predicated on a supposed first round pick.  A first rounder needs to be ready to play in this day and age.  Manzeil has far too much to learn to make it as a starting QB in the NFL.

This is all just speculation but I don't think he is NFL ready.  If he gets to start somewhere and succeeds good for him.  I just don't see it happening.  I believe if he is put in that position in the 2014 season he will fail.


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## hangover (Apr 25, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> hangover said:
> 
> 
> > I think I heard Manziel is going to Dallas, and Shaub went to the Raiders. I thought the Raiders were going to get smarter when Al Davis checked out. Pft!
> ...



I think you underestimate Jerry Jones' buying power. Since the rich can buy the government, Jones buying Manziel is chump change.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 25, 2014)

HUGGY said:


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well i agree with you on that.I think that would be a major mistake for them to make him a starter immediately his first year not finishing out the last two years.I think he should still be the number one pick,i just dont think that just because he is the number one pick that you start him immediately in his first year our of college like they did with Luck and with Rg3.that would be a mistake telling him "you were one of the top choices in the first round so were going make you a starter right now." I would hope the coach and the GM would sit down and explain that to him. that would be stupid to throw him in the mix starting this year,thats no question..the NFL needs to stop this nonsense of cause your the number one pick or your a first round pick so you need to start now nonsense.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 25, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


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Im sure the atlanta falcons thought the same exact same thing when they made the worst mistake of their life trading away farve for some draft picks.that because of his recklessness and crazy improvisational skills,that he was a potential disaster waiting to happen. you know they were thinking that.They obvioulsy didnt see the greatness waiting in him and understand that he would mature later one.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 25, 2014)

And Johnny doesnt fit what O'brien considers his ideal QB and since the guy is considered a genius when it comes to offense and QBs? I'll take his word over some guy on the internet. 

Its ironic that you mentioned that about O brien above because this is what Gruden has to say about him playing for him below.this was part of what I posted in post #147. Gruden must be psychic or something.Its like he is reading our minds.First he compares manziel to Young and Farve AFTER i did,and now he is talking about how he thinks he would work in O Briens system AFTER you mention it.is that cosmic ot what?

Gruden thinks Manziel is a dynamic playmaker who would fit with Bill O' Brien and the former new england offensive coordinater would be the right coach to rein in manziel as a more disciplined pocket passer.

sit johnny on the bench his first year and have him watch and learn under cant remember that QB they have now,but have him watch and learn from him his first year,and by 2015,I see him ready to go.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 25, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> And Johnny doesnt fit what O'brien considers his ideal QB and since the guy is considered a genius when it comes to offense and QBs? I'll take his word over some guy on the internet.
> 
> Its ironic that you mentioned that about O brien above because this is what Gruden has to say about him playing for him below.this was part of what I posted in post #147. Gruden must be psychic ro soemthing.its like he is reading our minds.First he compares manziel to Young and farve AFTER i did,and now he is talking about how he thinks he would work in o briens system AFTER you mention it.is that cosmic ot what?
> 
> Gruden thinks Manziel is a dynamic playmaker who would fit with Bill O' Brien and the former new england offensive coordinater would be the right coach to rein in manziel as a more disciplined pocket passer.




    Why would he want a QB that has to be groomed(forced)to stay in the pocket?
Thats not Johnny's game.
    The kid may turn out to be a dynamo....but I doubt it.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 26, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > And Johnny doesnt fit what O'brien considers his ideal QB and since the guy is considered a genius when it comes to offense and QBs? I'll take his word over some guy on the internet.
> ...



It wasnt Young,or Farves game  coming out of college either,but they eventually made the adjustment looking to pass first and only take off when the pocket broke down and everyone was covered.

No reason to believe that he cant be groomed to make the same adjustment.Gruden thinks he can and he knows him firsthand MUCH better than any of us here on the board.what Gruden said is good enough for me to take him as the first pick.He knows much more about football and talented players that any of us do thats for sure.

It will all depend on Johnnys willingness to WANT to make the adjustment of course.He may turn out to be like Kapernick and Rg3 who are both always looking to run first before throwing it waiting to throw it while on the run.Its not RG3 or Kappernicks game to be a pocket passer.They havent made the adjustment and while it hasnt hurt Kapernick YET,it has hurt RG3. Gruden though thinks he is discipined enough to adjust his game and be effective as a pocket passer,so thats good enough for me and justification enough for me for them to take him as a number one pick.

I like Grudens analasysts of Manziel.He is thinking outside the box about him just like I am.The fact he ALSO thinks he compares favorably to Young and Farve AFTER I said the same thing its quite a good feeling seeing someone else out there who knows a little something abotu football who has the same agreements on me about this.

and he also isnt coming out saying anything nutty either like he has got to be a first year starter this year or anything like that.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 26, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> WinterBorn said:
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I'm sure the Titans would like their Vince Young pick back. I also recall that Todd Marinovich, Ryan Leaf or in 1999, it went Tim Couch, Donavan McNabb and Akili Smith, 1, 2, 3. How about the can't miss QB Heath Schuller? 

Sorry but Manziel is not a sure pick, two better picks on the defensive side of the ball I think have a better shot of impacting the team.






Sent from my iPad using an Android.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 26, 2014)

Papageorgio said:


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And a great defense is what wins championships.

Look at the most recent Super Bowl.  Peyton Manning is one of the best QBs to ever play the game.  But the defense he faced stopped him.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 26, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


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> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



thats an unfair comparison using manning as an example.a guy who panicks and gets scared when he plays in big games like a deer with the headlights on him in the middle of the road.


It ONLY wins championships though if you have a reliable clutch quarterback to go along WITH IT.just ask the bears when they had rex grossman,or the steelers when they had kordell stewart and neil o'donnel,or the chiefs when they had steve bonehead and elvis garbage in 95 and 97 when they had the most fearsome defense in the league both those years..it can take you as far as the playoffs and to the superbowl if your lucky like the bears were or if you have great coaching like the steelers did with cowher,but to WIN the whole thing at the big dance,if you dont have a quarterback who can make some great plays and make clutch throws in key crucial situatuions,you can forget about winning the whole thing at the big dance.

and dont forget the superbowls with Eli manning,the opposite manning who actually remains calm and plays well under pressure in the big game.without his clutch throw he made under pressure on 4th and 10 against the pats in the superbowl late in the game during the 4th quarter and their last chance to do something on offense,and also the one on 3rd and long in his own territory in the next superbowl against them,having a great defense but not a quarterback who makes clutch throws under pressure would have only taken the giants so far that year.without ELIA'S excellent improvisation skills in those big games,the giants go home unhappy both times not winning at the big dance either time.

you can always build a team around a quarterback as the cowboys did with aikman and the colts with manning,much harder to do to WIN  a superbowl championship with just an excellent defense but a lousy QB though.the steeler players remember it all too well with neil bonhead o donnel and kordell flash in the pan stewart.

think the seahawks go to the superbowl last year with tavarious jackson at quarterback with wilson out for just a few games like 3 or 4? if you do,then I have some property in russia I want to sell you.

Look at the seahawks,where they were before wilson got there.Carrol had built a defense that could get them to the big dance and was ready to get there after his second season there.But he knew as long as he had jackson as his starter,they would never go anywhere.they couldnt even mount a winning season with him which is why they traded for matt flynn,they then got very fortunate drafting wilson who was the missing piece in the puzzle. as i have said a million times before here,when was the last time a quarterback was drsafted in the late round and turned out to be a great QB before wilson? tom brady.why do i have to keep on repeating that over and over?

speaking of brady,there another example that just helps my case.Look at what happened to Belecheat his first season there in boston when drew bledsoe was his quarterback.a losing season.Tom Brady comes in the next year out of nowhere and with pretty much all the same players from the year before,transforms that team into a superbowl winner.

sure draft clowney and HOPE TJ Yate or whatever his name is,turns them around? good luck on that.


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## Papageorgio (Apr 26, 2014)

Trent Dilfer, Joe Flacco, Mark Rypien, Brad Johnson, Ben Roethlisberger, Jeff Hostetler. 

These guys aren't world class QB's, they all won Super Bowls, defense was the difference.


Sent from my iPad using an Android.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 30, 2014)

Im starting to thinkt eh texans are wising up that they are going to take johnny football because the GM is saying they dont want to make the same mistake of taking a QB high in the draft and starting him immediately his first season.why else even bring that up if they are not going to use that 1st round pick for johnny?


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## rightwinger (Apr 30, 2014)

Pretty set that the Texans will take Clowney and draft a QB in the second round

Good strategy


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## Rocko (May 1, 2014)

Papageorgio said:


> Trent Dilfer, Joe Flacco, Mark Rypien, Brad Johnson, Ben Roethlisberger, Jeff Hostetler.
> 
> These guys aren't world class QB's, they all won Super Bowls, defense was the difference.
> 
> ...



True, but in general teams that win superbowls do so with superb quarterback play.


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## LA RAM FAN (May 1, 2014)

Papageorgio said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



Young didnt have the amazing skills that johnny has and couldnt make a basketball shot from nosebleed sections either. Marinovich and Leaf are poor examples because the general managers that drafted them were not very bright in the fact they overlooked how marinovich and leaf were easy to rattle.

they could not keep their composure if things went wrong for them and had an extremely negative bad attitide. johnny has the same confidance that wilson and brady had,both of them when they came out of the draft, both told their owners it was the best decision they ever made and they were right.they both are players that have a rare confidance about themsleves KNOWING they will succeed.Johnny has that as well.

I remember marinovichs last game after he screwed up so badly knowing he would never be back with the raiders or with the NFL again,he started crying on the bench. all the more funny that it was with the RAIDERS,a team thats suppose to be bad ass and fearless.

cant remember a single thing about smith,but heath schular didnt have any scrambling ability or the great improvisation skills like johnny,cam newton,kapernick and wilson have and I fail to see why you even put Mcnabb in that mix since he WAS a success making it to a few pro bowls while he was in the league.lol.

Tim Coach would have been good had he been drafted by another team with a different coach.He never was fortunate enough to hook up with a good coach or a good system.Cleveland has historically hired bad coaches. it was a very bad situation for him that he never recovered from.


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## LA RAM FAN (May 1, 2014)

Papageorgio said:


> Trent Dilfer, Joe Flacco, Mark Rypien, Brad Johnson, Ben Roethlisberger, Jeff Hostetler.
> 
> These guys aren't world class QB's, they all won Super Bowls, defense was the difference.
> 
> ...



The ONLY two players that you mentioned that are valid here is Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson. This argument only helps my case for me WHY you draft the QB and build the team around him like they did with Aikman and Peyton Manning.

Sure Rypien,Flacco,and Hostetler arent world class but they are nowhere anywhere in the same catagory of quarterbacks who scare you in hurting your team like Dilfer and Johnson were. Dilfer and Johnson are the ONLY two RARE cases where not having a very good quarterback but an excellent defense was good enough to get you to the superbowl and win it alll. again those are just "TWO" extremely rare cases where the quarterback wasnt that good but a great defense won the superbowl for you.

No way in hell does Hostletler belong in the same catagory as johnson and dilfer as not very good Quarterbacks.Hoss was super tough,he took a major pounding in the superbowl against the bills and time after time got back up and came back with accurate throws.He was very accurate down the field and had very good mobility,he lasted in the NFL for quite some time because of his deep downfield accuracy and mobility he had.

Flacco? get serious.while not flashy,his teammates believe in him.you obviously dont remember the playoff games against the broncos.Not very many quarterbacks can keep their poise going into denver and winning up there during that time of year,the second toughest place to play and win at because of the roudy mile high crowd and how loud they get there and how tough it it to keep up pace wise because of the mile high thin air. 

He completed a VERY long pass down the field on 4th and 23 towards the end of the game when the game was on the line.He never panicked in that game and remained calm keeping his poise the entire game.It takes a special quarterback to do that. just watch,not this year,but next year,they'll be a good team again.Flacoos clutch quarterback play was a key in them winning that game AND the superbowl,not just the defense.

Mark Rypien? get real.He also was a good quarterback his teammates all believed in.He had a strong accurate arm down the field and had very good leadership skills.

Big Ben? thats the joke of the century that you would even put him in the mix.

I guarantee you most teams in the NFL would kill to have this guy as their quarterback.

great leadership skills,escapes the pocket and gets away from being dragged down cause of his size,something hardly any other quarterback in the league can do.he makes plays out of nothing with his great improvisational skills keeping alive in the pocket.while he was not much of a factor in the first superbowl letting the big stage get to him,he WAS  a huge factor in the cardinals game.somehow you seem to forget how he won the gaem for them at the end under two minutes completing a long pass down the field in the end zone on a third and long with just under a minute left in the ball game.thats something any quarterback in the NFL can do anytime.


you seem to have the same irrational hate for big ben that you do over kurt warner.

again this post only helps my case FOR ME,that they should draft manziel. since AGAIN,Johnson and dilfer are the two rare exceptions where not having a good reliable quarterback but a strong defense was good enough to win the superbowl. oh and what happened to the ravens and bucs after those superbowls? it took the ravens 8 years to get back to it again trying to find a good quarterback again and the bucs have failed to make it back since so that just reinforces my point for me.


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## LA RAM FAN (May 1, 2014)

Rocko said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Trent Dilfer, Joe Flacco, Mark Rypien, Brad Johnson, Ben Roethlisberger, Jeff Hostetler.
> ...



exactly.Johnson and Dilfer are the only rare exceptions where not having a good reliable quarterback was good enough to get them to win the superbowls and look what happened to those teams after that in trying to get back to the superbowl again.it took the ravens 13 years to make it back. again trying to find a good quarterback that could lead the way for them and the bucs have failed ever since to even make it to the playoffs since then. thats been 10 years now. 13 and 10 years is a long time.

in SHORT,Rypien,Hostletler and Flacco were not world class quarterbacks,TRUE.HOWEVER,they had strong accurate arms that they used to hit recievers deep down the field with and had leadership skills their teammates belived in.they were not GREAT quarterbacks,but they were GOOD RELIABLE ones that could make clutch throws when the game was on the line.

Flacco his first couple years in the league,he was terrible but he blossomed.Him,Rypien and Hoss,nither of those 3 except for flacco in the very beginning two or 3 years like i said,neither of those 3 made me say when they got on the field-on no,he is going to screw it up for them.except flacoo of course his first two or 3 years.NOW of course though,he is an entirely different quarterback and makes clutch throws like the one in denver.

JOHNSON AND DILFER were the only two of that mix where when they came out,you said-Oh no,he will screw it up for them.Those are the ONLY two rare cases where a team was able to win with a great defense but not a very good quarterback and like i said,look how long it was before the ravens made it back to the superbowl after that and look hhow long its been since the bucs made it back? 10 years and counting for the Bucs and 13 years before the ravens made it back.10 years or longer is a LONNGGGG time.history is on my side that having a great defense but not a really good reliable quarterback to go along with it,doesnt get you very far and seldom EVER wins the game for you at the big dance.

AGAIN,I dont care if the texans pass him up.I dont know why people are coming on here acting like I give a shit if they do.Just if i am the GM,theire is no way in hell i take the chance of passing him up.you can always build a team around a quarterback,you seldom ever get to the big dance and win it though with a great defense and a QB that scares you with his play though.Johnson and Dilfer being the lone RARE two exceptions.


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## HUGGY (May 1, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



Johnnie Football didn't prove "leadership" by being in college for only two years.

Manzeil's ability to escape the pocket has not been proven at the NFL level.

He MAY show these important characteristics ...he MAY not.

What examples do you have of a team building around a backup?  

Texas needs a QB NOW...not in two years.  Two years is an eternity in the NFL.  If they keep losing the coach may very well be gone along with the plans of working manzeil into the starting position.


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## LA RAM FAN (May 1, 2014)

HUGGY said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



well they arent going to get that quarterback NOW though because as i said,the owner  has said he doesnt want their next quarterback coming in and starting immediately.They learned their lesson the hard way with david carr,that was a mistake.Not everyone can be like your man wilson or luck or manning,players that were able to handle it their first year.they realise that and arent going to do that.they plan on being wise and developing him.so expect him to sit a couple years.see below.

Bob McNair hints rookie Texans QB would sit at first - NFL.com


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## HUGGY (May 3, 2014)

* Texans are fools to pass up on Johnny Football.here is why...*

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FPGJrzzq_I]Mr. T Stops Saying "I Pity the Fool" - YouTube[/ame]


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## LA RAM FAN (May 8, 2014)

I think the texans are gonna be smart and take johnny football with the first pick cause again,think about it,WHY would the owner come out and say they would like to have the quarterback they pick in THIS years draft,on the bench for at least the first year in this years draft if it was going to be a 2nd or 3rd choice? makes no sense.I think they just dont want to tip their hand so they have been giving the media false hints of drafting clowney mentioning things off record,that they would like to start it off by building a strong defense ao thats why clowneys name is mentioned all the time in all the mock drafts. i could be wrong,im not perfect,nobody is.but thats something to think about though.


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## rightwinger (May 8, 2014)

They are better off taking Clowney and using their first pick in the second round to take a QB.  There will still be some good ones available


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## Papageorgio (May 8, 2014)

Manziel won't go 1, 2 or 3. Raiders have their pick. Manziel after all the hype will go 7-11th pick. 

Time will tell if he has the skills to play in the NFL.


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## Rocko (May 8, 2014)

Papageorgio said:


> Manziel won't go 1, 2 or 3. Raiders have their pick. Manziel after all the hype will go 7-11th pick.
> 
> Time will tell if he has the skills to play in the NFL.



If he's available at 9 and the bills don't pick him I'll cry.


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## rightwinger (May 8, 2014)

Clowney it is....good pick


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## WinterBorn (May 8, 2014)

Last I checked, we have 18 players drafted and Johnny is still available.


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## HUGGY (May 8, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Last I checked, we have 18 players drafted and Johnny is still available.



Make that 20.


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## WinterBorn (May 8, 2014)

HUGGY said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Last I checked, we have 18 players drafted and Johnny is still available.
> ...



Johnny Football goes at #22, and was the 3rd QB picked.  

The Cleveland Browns?  Not exactly where 9/11 thought he would be.


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## HUGGY (May 8, 2014)

I was starting to feel bad for Johnnie Football.

Can you imagine the embarrassment if he had to go back to his hotel room and wait to get picked in the second round...???


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## Quantum Windbag (May 8, 2014)

HUGGY said:


> I was starting to feel bad for Johnnie Football.
> 
> Can you imagine the embarrassment if he had to go back to his hotel room and wait to get picked in the second round...???



You think Cleveland is better than the 2nd round?


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## auditor0007 (May 9, 2014)

Quantum Windbag said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > I was starting to feel bad for Johnnie Football.
> ...



Cleveland got exactly what they wanted, and Manziel is going to be happy going there.  He expected to go there anyway, just via the fourth pick rather than the 22nd.  Cleveland did their homework and got what they wanted where they wanted.  I'm thinking the Browns next pick will be Carlos Hyde at running back.  I'm really starting to like their draft.  The thing with Manziel is that he may not even start this year.  Brian Hoyer has a lot more experience and isn't half bad with the receivers Cleveland has.  As for the rest of the draft, Cleveland has quite a few picks left, and they will have two first round picks again next year, potentially two top 10 picks.  The best either Cleveland or Buffalo can really hope for this year is 8-8, so those two picks will be significant next year.  2015/16 will  be the year to see if these moves pay off for the Browns.


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## FuelRod (May 9, 2014)

And "walked across the stage rubbing his fingers together the ol' money sign" tweeted by Buster Olney ESPN.  Way to stay classy and showing his true colors at pick #22 all I noticed was the "King of the World" arms raised at lower than expected pick 22.  
Bust written all over him IMHO.


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## rightwinger (May 9, 2014)

Could it be that the Texans take their second Carr brother as their QB?

Deja vu all over again


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## Billo_Really (May 9, 2014)

What do you expect?  

Everything is fucked in Texas (especially my aunt).

The only thing that is not fucked in Texas is:

SRV
ZZ Top
that laundrymat on the beach in Galvastan


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## LA RAM FAN (May 18, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> They are better off taking Clowney and using their first pick in the second round to take a QB.  There will still be some good ones available



well looks like they hav assured themselves of being like the chiefs from the 90's,a great defense that can take them to the playoffs but no quarterback keeping them from making it to the superbowl.unles yate somehow materilizes in the future somehow and we havent seen the real yate emerge yet which is highly unlikely.


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## LA RAM FAN (May 18, 2014)

Rocko said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Manziel won't go 1, 2 or 3. Raiders have their pick. Manziel after all the hype will go 7-11th pick.
> ...



time to get out that crying towel.I know i hear you.I wish the rams had picked him since they are going to be back in LA next year and be my favorite team again.


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## LA RAM FAN (May 18, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



yes and no.some of the mock drafts had cleveland taking him with their FIRST pick saying they needed something to energize the fanbase so i though clelveland might be one that would draft him,i just never imaigined they would not use their first pick on him to do so.


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## LA RAM FAN (May 18, 2014)

auditor0007 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...





I sure hope you are right about manziel not starting this year.He isnt ready yet.he needs to sit on the bench for at LEAST one year before starting.If they throw him in as a starter immediately THIS year,then all bets are off on everything i have said that he will be a great quarterback in the future.he wont be able to recover if they do that to him.Hoyer needs to be the starter this year.

Yeah The Browns finally look like they know what they are doing in their drafts.they must have got a new personal man.i like their picks.They were able to get manziel AND a high quality pick as well.your right,they wont do any better than 8 and 8 this year so they will be in good position next year for a good pick as well. This is a good fit for Manziel.sit on the sideline for one year and learn from Hoyer and get tutured by Kyle shannahan in the process.He is in a good position.


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## LA RAM FAN (May 18, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> Could it be that the Texans take their second Carr brother as their QB?
> 
> Deja vu all over again



they really fucked up.they had a chance to get him and get a quarterback in the process as well yet they bailed on that. guess they were afraid to take another carr.
expect them to be like the chiefs and steelers from the 90's.be good enough to make it to the playoffs every year but not having a quarterback keeps them from advancing to the superbowl just like i called it.they MIGHT have avoided that though HAD they taken carr whern they had the chance is whats crazy about it all.


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## HereWeGoAgain (May 18, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Could it be that the Texans take their second Carr brother as their QB?
> ...



   Not a single QB worth a first or second round pick this year. I'm extremely happy about the direction the Texans went in the draft.
 I expect the Texans to give up a shitload of picks next year for Mariota and solve their QB problems...thats assuming Savage doesnt work out.


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## LA RAM FAN (May 19, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



thats what a lot of teams thought about joe montana,tom brady and russell wilson as well.


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## rightwinger (May 19, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



49ers, Patriots, Seahawks.....all were asked to fit into a great system

Browns?  Manziel is doomed


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## HereWeGoAgain (May 19, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



  Brady was a sixth round pick. Thanks for proving my point.
There were no clear cut first round QBs this year. Everyone of them is a project. Had Mariota came out this year I could see using a first on him.


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## HereWeGoAgain (May 19, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > HereWeGoAgain said:
> ...



   Looking forward to watching all the QBs from this years draft to see if my opinion is correct. And yeah,Johnny is screwed,as are the Browns for picking him......maybe.


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## rightwinger (May 19, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



Joe Montana was the greatest QB I ever saw. But if he were a top first round pick of the Cardinals, Saints or Lions he would have been an average QB at best


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## HereWeGoAgain (May 19, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



   I completely understand why Bill O'brien wanted Savage. He fits his idea of the ideal QB better then say a Teddy or Johnny.
     I cant remember where I saw it,or whose grading system was used,but Savage beat out all QBs in the draft. I'll see if I can find it.


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