# What is our purpose in life?



## pacer

If our only reason for being is to strive for everlasting life in heaven, how can we derive meaning and purpose out of this life?


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## Spiderman

You and you alone determine your purpose.

Personally I do not believe in the afterlife.


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## pacer

Spiderman said:


> You and you alone determine your purpose.
> 
> Persoanlly I do not believe in the afterlife.


I find it difficult to believe in an afterlife.  I simply cannot grasp the concept of _forever_never to end.


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## koshergrl

Do you deny the existence of everything you have difficulty grasping?


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## Chuckt

pacer said:


> Spiderman said:
> 
> 
> 
> You and you alone determine your purpose.
> 
> Persoanlly I do not believe in the afterlife.
> 
> 
> 
> I find it difficult to believe in an afterlife.  I simply cannot grasp the concept of _forever_never to end.
Click to expand...


It either always existed or it was created.

God always existed so therefore He will always be eternal.


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## BreezeWood

the OuterWorld of the Everlasting is where we came from and may return, or not - the Everlasting is Eternal, the Spirit may survive for however long it is able to.


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## Katzndogz

pacer said:


> Spiderman said:
> 
> 
> 
> You and you alone determine your purpose.
> 
> Persoanlly I do not believe in the afterlife.
> 
> 
> 
> I find it difficult to believe in an afterlife.  I simply cannot grasp the concept of _forever_never to end.
Click to expand...


Do you also have a problem with an infinite universe - that's CURVED?


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## koshergrl

And who said that our only purpose in life was to strive for everlasting life after death?

This thread belongs in philosophy. It's not about religion.


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## cereal_killer

pacer said:


> Spiderman said:
> 
> 
> 
> You and you alone determine your purpose.
> 
> Persoanlly I do not believe in the afterlife.
> 
> 
> 
> I find it difficult to believe in an afterlife.  I simply cannot grasp the concept of _forever_never to end.
Click to expand...

Because of the stigma attached to the "afterlife" It's been hijacked by religion and religious groups.


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## pacer

koshergrl said:


> Do you deny the existence of everything you have difficulty grasping?


I may find it difficult to grasp the notion we evolved from apes but I do not deny the possibility.


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## pacer

koshergrl said:


> This thread belongs in philosophy. It's not about religion.


Heaven is afterlife.


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## boedicca

pacer said:


> If our only reason for being is to strive for everlasting life after death, how can we derive meaning and purpose out of this life?




You are making a false assumption that striving for everlasting life after death is the only reason for life.

Life itself is a reason (personally, I believe self aware life is the universe's way of understanding itself).  So, making the most of one's life HERE ON EARTH is a perfectly valid purpose.


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## pacer

From a Christian standpoint, it seems our only purpose for being is in the service of God and our behavior in this life determines our destiny in the next.


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## koshergrl

pacer said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you deny the existence of everything you have difficulty grasping?
> 
> 
> 
> I may find it difficult to grasp the notion we evolved from apes but I do not deny the possibility.
Click to expand...

 
So you admit to bias.

Good for you.


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## koshergrl

pacer said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> This thread belongs in philosophy. It's not about religion.
> 
> 
> 
> Heaven is afterlife.
Click to expand...

 
You maintain you don't believe in heaven, and you didn't mention heaven in the op.

You aren't discussing religion. You're discussing your philosophy of life.


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## pacer

It was not my intention to be philosophical.  I was speaking of heaven.


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## koshergrl

You don't believe in heaven.


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## pacer

It depends on my mood.


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## koshergrl

Your question isn't about heaven, or religion. It's about the purpose of life in the absence of heaven, and God.

Which is a philosophical discussion.


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## pacer

It is about heaven.


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## pacer

I revised the opening post.


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## koshergrl

No, it's not. Re-read your OP. You aren't asking a question about heaven. You assert you don't believe in it. 

You're asking about LIFE and the purpose of life in the absence of heaven, or, alternately, the purpose of life based on your false premise that the *purpose* of a Christian life is to attain heaven.

Either way. It's a POS op.


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## koshergrl

Better on the  OP..it makes more sense..but now it even more obviously belongs in philosophy, lol.


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## syrenn

pacer said:


> If our only reason for being is to strive for everlasting life in heaven, how can we derive meaning and purpose out of this life?





the purpose of life is just that.... to live. Other then then that, there is no purpose.


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## koshergrl

So...this is related to religion and ethics...how again?


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## theword

pacer said:


> If our only reason for being is to strive for everlasting life in heaven, how can we derive meaning and purpose out of this life?



Since we are only God's created invisible "beings" called energy, we have no choice but to just experience life as it comes to us. We can't change anything so stop worrying about life and try enjoy what God gives us. 

I realize that God deceived us from knowing Him during this age with a very strong delusion called Lucifer and the beast but if you can trust my testimony in the invisible Christ within my mind, then you'll have less fear of the future and not be so concerned about the meaning of life that none of us will remember after the death of our flesh during this age. We're going to wake up in new bodies that will never die again in a New Earth with New information ( Heaven ) without any deception to confuse us like what happened in this age. 

The only purpose of life is for us created "beings" to enjoy what God created for us. It's difficult to enjoy life during this age but in the next one, we'll always be joyful and know who we are in the mind of our Creator.


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## PainefulTruth

pacer said:


> Spiderman said:
> 
> 
> 
> You and you alone determine your purpose.
> 
> Persoanlly I do not believe in the afterlife.
> 
> 
> 
> I find it difficult to believe in an afterlife.  I simply cannot grasp the concept of _forever_&#8230;never to end.
Click to expand...


If it gets boring or something, I imagine God would have offed Itself long ago.  God and any afterlife exist in a timeless state if they exist at all.  I imagine that God always existed, there being no time, and It always knew it would need the companionship of other sentient being with self-aware free will that chose to seek God (Truth) without knowing whether a sentient God existed.



pacer said:


> If our only reason for being is to strive for everlasting life after death, how can we derive meaning and purpose out of this life?



We don't even know if there's a God, much less an afterlife, which causes us to look at ourselves.  Our purpose, whether God exists or not, is to seek the Truth, which equates to the pursuit of knowledge, justice, love and beauty--and to honor the equal rights of all others in that pursuit.



> You are making a false assumption that striving for everlasting life after death is the only reason for life.



True, but it doesn't hurt to hope there's a reward for pursuing the aspects of Truth and being moral.  Even is it turns out there is no such reward, it can make us feel more comfortable while we're here--and we'll never know the difference if it doesn't.  Hope is the only difference between atheism and laissez-faire deism--which are in turn the only two reasonable positions on the existence of God.



			
				boedicca said:
			
		

> Life itself is a reason (personally, I believe self aware life is the universe's way of understanding itself).  So, making the most of one's life HERE ON EARTH is a perfectly valid purpose.



Excellent response, and you'll note, very similar to mine. 

But is simple survival all there is?  Or Fun?  I think fulfillment (making the most of your life) provides the greatest satisfaction, but that can sometimes mean nothing more than simply surviving morally.


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## AVG-JOE

pacer said:


> *What is our purpose in life?*
> 
> If our only reason for being is to strive for everlasting life in heaven, how can we derive meaning and purpose out of this life?



That's one of those questions that will have as many correct answers as there are souls dwelling in flesh at any given moment.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoxRFOr_sQ0]Rolling Stones: "Satisfaction!" - YouTube[/ame]

Satisfaction.
  There's a reason to live!​


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## AVG-JOE

cereal_killer said:


> pacer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spiderman said:
> 
> 
> 
> You and you alone determine your purpose.
> 
> Persoanlly I do not believe in the afterlife.
> 
> 
> 
> I find it difficult to believe in an afterlife.  I simply cannot grasp the concept of _forever_never to end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because of the stigma attached to the "afterlife" It's been hijacked by religion and religious groups.
Click to expand...


'Stigma'?


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## AVG-JOE

pacer said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you deny the existence of everything you have difficulty grasping?
> 
> 
> 
> I may find it difficult to grasp the notion we evolved from apes but I do not deny the possibility.
Click to expand...


Humans didn't evolve _from_ apes.  

Humans evolved along side apes from a common ancestor.  There's a difference between the two concepts.


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## koshergrl

That's a theory.

Again, how does this relate to religion or ethics?


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## PainefulTruth

AVG-JOE said:


> pacer said:
> 
> 
> 
> *What is our purpose in life?*
> 
> If our only reason for being is to strive for everlasting life in heaven, how can we derive meaning and purpose out of this life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's one of those questions that will have as many correct answers as there are souls dwelling in flesh at any given moment.
> 
> Satisfaction.
Click to expand...


Satisfaction, another word for fulfillment.  And yes, there are an infinite number of paths to follow in the moral pursuit of Truth (knowledge, justice, love and beauty).  Hell, Honky Tonk Women could easily be, and probably have been, one such path to satisfaction.  "She blew my nose and then she blew my mind"


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## AVG-JOE

PainefulTruth said:


> But is simple survival all there is?  Or Fun?  I think fulfillment (making the most of your life) provides the greatest satisfaction, but that can sometimes mean nothing more than simply surviving morally.



Simple survival.  Fun.  Fulfillment.  

Fortunately, satisfaction is as satisfaction does.  

The material aspect of modern Monkey life sure has been a weird and warped effect.


Simple survival is a life of luck in a low-tech world.


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## AVG-JOE

koshergrl said:


> That's a theory.
> 
> Again, how does this relate to religion or ethics?



*This thread would be moved by now if it was going anywhere.  

Please contribute substance or move along. *


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## koshergrl

This is relative to religion how?

BTW, avgjoe...your creed is pretty much the same as the Church of Satanism. Is that the religious statement you're making?

Maybe there's a Church of Troll? Is that the angle?


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## AVG-JOE

PainefulTruth said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pacer said:
> 
> 
> 
> *What is our purpose in life?*
> 
> If our only reason for being is to strive for everlasting life in heaven, how can we derive meaning and purpose out of this life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's one of those questions that will have as many correct answers as there are souls dwelling in flesh at any given moment.
> 
> Satisfaction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Satisfaction, another word for fulfillment.  And yes, *there are an infinite number of paths to follow in the moral pursuit* of Truth (knowledge, justice, love and beauty).  Hell, Honky Tonk Women could easily be, and probably have been, one such path to satisfaction.  "She blew my nose and then she blew my mind"
Click to expand...


Just imagine the number when you add in some of the more popular _immoral_ pursuits.
​


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## AquaAthena

pacer said:


> If our only reason for being is to strive for everlasting life in heaven, how can we derive meaning and purpose out of this life?



For me, it is to live my life by the Golden Rule. It is to do good to others and myself and make the best of every breath....


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## AVG-JOE

koshergrl said:


> This is relative to religion how?
> 
> BTW, avgjoe...your creed is pretty much the same as the Church of Satanism. Is that the religious statement you're making?
> 
> Maybe there's a Church of Troll? Is that the angle?



*Doesn't matter.  It's a discussion that's close enough.  If you are not finding religious satisfaction in this thread, find another or start your own.*

My 'creed', and by that I ass-u-me you ask of my beliefs concerning origins and afterlife, is as far from 'Satanism' as it is from the rest of the creeds whose origins lay in the ancient stories known as The Torah, New Testament and Koran.

To believe in Abraham's Devil one must first believe in the God of Abraham.


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## koshergrl

Here ya go, joe:

"...[SIZE=+1][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif] we are the first above-ground     organization in history openly dedicated to the acceptance of Man&#8217;s true nature&#8212;that     of a carnal beast, living in a cosmos that is indifferent to our existence."

"[/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=+1][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]  Man&#8212;using his brain&#8212;invented all the Gods, doing so because many of our  species cannot accept or control their personal egos, feeling compelled  to conjure up one or a multiplicity of characters who can act without  hindrance or guilt upon whims and desires. All Gods are thus  externalized forms, magnified projections of the true nature of their  creators, personifying aspects of the universe or personal temperaments  which many of their followers find to be troubling. Worshipping any God  is thus worshipping by proxy those who invented that God. Since the  Satanist understands that all Gods are fiction, instead of bending a  knee in worship to[SIZE=+1]&#8212;[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]or seeking friendship or unity with[/FONT][SIZE=+1][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+1]&#8212;[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]such  mythical entities, he places himself at the center of his own  subjective universe as his own highest value. We Satanists are thus our  own &#8220;Gods,&#8221;[SIZE=+1] and as beneficent &#8220;deities&#8221; we can offer  love to those who deserve it and deliver our wrath (within reasonable  limits) upon those who seek to cause us[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]&#8212;[/FONT]or that which we cherish[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]&#8212;[/FONT]harm."

Welcome to the Church of Satan
[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE]


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## theDoctorisIn

AVG-JOE said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is relative to religion how?
> 
> BTW, avgjoe...your creed is pretty much the same as the Church of Satanism. Is that the religious statement you're making?
> 
> Maybe there's a Church of Troll? Is that the angle?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Doesn't matter.  It's a discussion that's close enough.  If you are not finding religious satisfaction in this thread, find another or start your own.*
> 
> My 'creed', and by that I ass-u-me you ask of my beliefs concerning origins and afterlife, is as far from 'Satanism' as it is from the rest of the creeds whose origins lay in the ancient stories known as The Torah, New Testament and Koran.
> 
> To believe in Abraham's Devil one must first believe in the God of Abraham.
Click to expand...


The Church of Satan doesn't really have anything to do with the Devil of the Christian bible - they're more of an evolution of the old Aleister Crowley "Do what thou wilt" stuff, with some ridiculous rituals thrown in. There's no belief in any supernatural beings involved.

Anton LaVey just called it "The Church of Satan" to make it sound scary.


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## Unkotare

Spiderman said:


> You and you alone determine your purpose.





You alone? I don't think so.


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## koshergrl

Now it's a religious discussion, and not just a troll thread.


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## Unkotare

AquaAthena said:


> pacer said:
> 
> 
> 
> If our only reason for being is to strive for everlasting life in heaven, how can we derive meaning and purpose out of this life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For me, it is to live my life by the Golden Rule. It is to do good to others and myself and make the best of every breath....
Click to expand...



You must go through a lot of mouthwash.


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## koshergrl

"[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]7. Satan represents    man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those    that walk on all-fours, who, because of his &#8220;divine spiritual and intellectual    development,&#8221; has become the most vicious animal of all! "[/FONT]


The Nine Satanic Statements


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## koshergrl

"...[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]*1.* *Stupidity&#8212;*The    top of the list for Satanic Sins. The Cardinal Sin of Satanism. It&#8217;s too bad    that stupidity isn&#8217;t painful. Ignorance is one thing, but our society thrives    increasingly on stupidity. It depends on people going along with whatever    they are told. The media promotes a cultivated stupidity as a posture that    is not only acceptable but laudable. Satanists must learn to see through the    tricks and cannot afford to be stupid."

The Nine Satanic Sins

Sounds just like the garbage the anti-christers spew all over this forum.

So we've found you a church now. Make it formal, so you don't drive everybody nuts with your irrelevant and out of place blatherings.
[/FONT]


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## koshergrl

AVG-JOE said:


> PainefulTruth said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's one of those questions that will have as many correct answers as there are souls dwelling in flesh at any given moment.
> 
> Satisfaction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Satisfaction, another word for fulfillment.  And yes, *there are an infinite number of paths to follow in the moral pursuit* of Truth (knowledge, justice, love and beauty).  Hell, Honky Tonk Women could easily be, and probably have been, one such path to satisfaction.  "She blew my nose and then she blew my mind"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just imagine the number when you add in some of the more popular _immoral_ pursuits.​
Click to expand...








Church of Satan History


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## AVG-JOE

Interesting and fairly unexpected hobby you have there, koshergrl.


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## koshergrl

Just trying to keep the threads relevant there, Joe. See, this is a "religion & ethics" forum. That means, at least on the surface, the threads should deal with....religion. Or ethics. Since nobody in this particular thread seems interested in discussing real religion, and the majority seem committed to declaring there is no God and using a false premise to goad those who do believe in God, I thought I would give you a little boost, so you look a little less like a clueless idiot.

I seriously would pitch in for a night class or something for you, to help you improve your moderating (and comprehension) skills. I see you struggle, and my heart goes out to you. How sad to be you, living in that fog of incomprehension.


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## PainefulTruth

AVG-JOE said:


> Humans didn't evolve _from_ apes.
> 
> Humans evolved along side apes from a common ancestor.  There's a difference between the two concepts.



From our point of view what's the difference if we evolved from one ape or another.  We ultimately evolved from protozoa/bacteria/viruses/whatever.  All evolution says is that we didn't pop up out of the muck fully formed, and that flies in the face of a literal interpretation of Genesis.


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## koshergrl

Actually, evolution doesn't say that...but whatever.


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## Chuckt

PainefulTruth said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Humans didn't evolve _from_ apes.
> 
> Humans evolved along side apes from a common ancestor.  There's a difference between the two concepts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From our point of view what's the difference if we evolved from one ape or another.  We ultimately evolved from protozoa/bacteria/viruses/whatever.  All evolution says is that we didn't pop up out of the muck fully formed, and that flies in the face of a literal interpretation of Genesis.
Click to expand...


I want you to write a computer program that writes a more complex computer program that keeps replicating itself and becomes more advanced and meaningful.  To my knowledge, no one has been able to do it.  The idea that a lizard rubbed its face on a rock or a tree and an eye popped out is rediculous because life and dna requires information.  If I mixed up a dna sequence in some soup, who would arrange it?  You?  Design in dna requires a designer.


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## The Irish Ram

pacer said:


> If our only reason for being is to strive for everlasting life in heaven, how can we derive meaning and purpose out of this life?



We derive meaning while we are here, by doing good.

Where did you get the notion that our everlasting lives would be lived out in Heaven?  That's not a Biblical teaching. 
Pace, do you think maybe you wouldn't be so skeptical of Christianity if you had a better grasp of it?


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## koshergrl

The entire thread is built upon a false premise. It's ridiculous. A monument to stupidity.


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## The Irish Ram

PainefulTruth said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Humans didn't evolve _from_ apes.
> 
> Humans evolved along side apes from a common ancestor.  There's a difference between the two concepts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From our point of view what's the difference if we evolved from one ape or another.  We ultimately evolved from protozoa/bacteria/viruses/whatever.  All evolution says is that we didn't pop up out of the muck fully formed, and that flies in the face of a literal interpretation of Genesis.
Click to expand...


And yet eyes have been *extremely* complex and fully formed from the beginning.  How do you explain that?


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## The Irish Ram

Chuckt said:


> PainefulTruth said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Humans didn't evolve _from_ apes.
> 
> Humans evolved along side apes from a common ancestor.  There's a difference between the two concepts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From our point of view what's the difference if we evolved from one ape or another.  We ultimately evolved from protozoa/bacteria/viruses/whatever.  All evolution says is that we didn't pop up out of the muck fully formed, and that flies in the face of a literal interpretation of Genesis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I want you to write a computer program that writes a more complex computer program that keeps replicating itself and becomes more advanced and meaningful.  To my knowledge, no one has been able to do it.  The idea that a lizard rubbed its face on a rock or a tree and an eye popped out is rediculous because life and dna requires information.  If I mixed up a dna sequence in some soup, who would arrange it?  You?  Design in dna requires a designer.
Click to expand...




Evolution requires mutation.  For every one mutation in the + column,  or right direction, there would have been millions in the - column or wrong evolutionary direction.  Where are all the fossil rejects?


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## PainefulTruth

koshergrl said:


> Actually, evolution doesn't say that...but whatever.



What does it say?



Chuckt said:


> Humans didn't evolve _from_ apes.
> 
> Humans evolved along side apes from a common ancestor.  There's a difference between the two concepts.



A distinction without a relevant difference.



> I want you to write a computer program that writes a more complex computer program that keeps replicating itself and becomes more advanced and meaningful.  To my knowledge, no one has been able to do it.



Well, we've only had computers for 50 years.  I'm betting before another hundred go by (maybe 200) we'll have sentient computers.



> The idea that a lizard rubbed its face on a rock or a tree and an eye popped out is rediculous because life and dna requires information.  If I mixed up a dna sequence in some soup, who would arrange it?  You?  Design in dna requires a designer.



I don't disagree with the possibility of a designer, only that what we see is the natural result of a design built into it at its creation.



koshergrl said:


> The entire thread is built upon a false premise. It's ridiculous. A monument to stupidity.



It's stupid to contemplate our purpose in life?



The Irish Ram said:


> And yet eyes have been *extremely* complex and fully formed from the beginning.  How do you explain that?



I don't because they weren't fully formed from the beginning.



The Irish Ram said:


> Evolution requires mutation.  For every one mutation in the + column,  or right direction, there would have been millions in the - column or wrong evolutionary direction.  Where are all the fossil rejects?



For one thing it isn't one to a million, closer to the other way around.  How many normal babies are there for every mutant one.  And the simpler the organism, the more likely a mutant is to be viable and/or an improvement.  And as for the fossil record, essentially all extinct life forms were rejects.


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## daveman

PainefulTruth said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Humans didn't evolve _from_ apes.
> 
> Humans evolved along side apes from a common ancestor.  There's a difference between the two concepts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From our point of view what's the difference if we evolved from one ape or another.  We ultimately evolved from protozoa/bacteria/viruses/whatever.  All evolution says is that we didn't pop up out of the muck fully formed, and that flies in the face of a literal interpretation of Genesis.
Click to expand...

Yet evolution does not explain the origin of life.


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## daveman

pacer said:


> What is our purpose in life?


To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the women.

-- Conan


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## koshergrl

PainefulTruth said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, evolution doesn't say that...but whatever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does it say?
> 
> 
> 
> Chuckt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Humans didn't evolve _from_ apes.
> 
> Humans evolved along side apes from a common ancestor.  There's a difference between the two concepts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A distinction without a relevant difference.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, we've only had computers for 50 years.  I'm betting before another hundred go by (maybe 200) we'll have sentient computers.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't disagree with the possibility of a designer, only that what we see is the natural result of a design built into it at its creation.
> 
> 
> 
> It's stupid to contemplate our purpose in life?
> 
> 
> 
> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet eyes have been *extremely* complex and fully formed from the beginning.  How do you explain that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't because they weren't fully formed from the beginning.
> 
> 
> 
> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> Evolution requires mutation.  For every one mutation in the + column,  or right direction, there would have been millions in the - column or wrong evolutionary direction.  Where are all the fossil rejects?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For one thing it isn't one to a million, closer to the other way around.  How many normal babies are there for every mutant one.  And the simpler the organism, the more likely a mutant is to be viable and/or an improvement.  And as for the fossil record, essentially all extinct life forms were rejects.
Click to expand...



I didn't say it was stupid to contemplate the meaning of life. I said contemplating the meaning of life is not, in this case, a religious discussion. I also said that the thread is based upon a false premise, i.e., that the life of the unspecified religious is about earning entrance into an afterlife. 

Read more carefully before you start yammering. You'll look less foolish.


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## BreezeWood

Chuckt said:


> PainefulTruth said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Humans didn't evolve _from_ apes.
> 
> Humans evolved along side apes from a common ancestor.  There's a difference between the two concepts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From our point of view what's the difference if we evolved from one ape or another.  We ultimately evolved from protozoa/bacteria/viruses/whatever.  All evolution says is that we didn't pop up out of the muck fully formed, *and that flies in the face of a literal interpretation of Genesis.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I want you to write a computer program that writes a more complex computer program that keeps replicating itself and becomes more advanced and meaningful.  To my knowledge, no one has been able to do it.  The idea that a lizard rubbed its face on a rock or a tree and an eye popped out is rediculous because life and dna requires information.  If I mixed up a dna sequence in some soup, who would arrange it?  You?  *Design in dna requires a designer*.
Click to expand...




*All evolution says is that we didn't pop up out of the muck fully formed and that flies in the face of a literal interpretation of Genesis - Design in dna requires a designer.*


the two are not exclusive to a revisionist Genesis that already gives the purpose for the Spirit to survive its physiological presence ... as coincidentally I have considered myself pursuing as a DNA Engineer a possible endeavor in the Everlasting  - with a purely selfless motivation. . 

.


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## koshergrl

BreezeWood said:


> Chuckt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PainefulTruth said:
> 
> 
> 
> From our point of view what's the difference if we evolved from one ape or another.  We ultimately evolved from protozoa/bacteria/viruses/whatever.  All evolution says is that we didn't pop up out of the muck fully formed, *and that flies in the face of a literal interpretation of Genesis.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want you to write a computer program that writes a more complex computer program that keeps replicating itself and becomes more advanced and meaningful.  To my knowledge, no one has been able to do it.  The idea that a lizard rubbed its face on a rock or a tree and an eye popped out is rediculous because life and dna requires information.  If I mixed up a dna sequence in some soup, who would arrange it?  You?  *Design in dna requires a designer*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *All evolution says is that we didn't pop up out of the muck fully formed and that flies in the face of a literal interpretation of Genesis - Design in dna requires a designer.*
> 
> 
> the two are not exclusive to a revisionist Genesis that already gives the purpose for the Spirit to survive its physiological presence ... as coincidentally I have considered myself pursuing as a DNA Engineer a possible endeavor in the Everlasting  - with a purely selfless motivation. .
> 
> .
Click to expand...




Easy for _you_ to say.


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## KevinWestern

pacer said:


> If our only reason for being is to strive for everlasting life in heaven, how can we derive meaning and purpose out of this life?



I believe we are here to learn & ascend - that is the purpose of this manifestation.

I believe we chose to come here (sorta in a reincarnation type of way), and that our souls are multifaceted & multidimensional, and that this physical manifestation is only one aspect of our total being. I think this explains to a degree what "intuition" is, and why things at times seem like they're so in synch with one another (ever experience that?).

I believe in a 'heaven'/'hell' per-se, but not in the Christian fashion. If you let your mind fall victim to negativity, hate, greed, etc, you will descend into lower dimensions with like minded individuals and create your own personal hell.

But if you embrace peace, kindness, oneness, and love you will let your mind ascend upwards into higher and higher dimensions with the top being a sort of 'heaven' I suppose. 

Lol, that's enough I suppose...


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## BreezeWood

koshergrl said:


> Easy for _you_ to say.




your tribulations are not without notice ... unfortunately.


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## pacer

BreezeWood said:


> *All evolution says is that we didn't pop up out of the muck fully formed and that flies in the face of a literal interpretation of Genesis - Design in dna requires a designer.*
> 
> 
> the two are not exclusive to a revisionist Genesis that already gives the purpose for the Spirit to survive its physiological presence ... as coincidentally I have considered myself pursuing as a DNA Engineer a possible endeavor in the Everlasting  - with a purely selfless motivation. .
> 
> .


I do not understand.  How can they not be exclusive if one comes from muck and the other through a Creator.  What do you mean by "revisionist Genesis that already gives the purpose for the Spirit, etc."  Can you break down your sentences to be a little more concise?


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## koshergrl

The tribulations appear to be your own, breezy. Good luck in your future attempts to communicate with humans.


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## Asclepias

Chuckt said:


> PainefulTruth said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Humans didn't evolve _from_ apes.
> 
> Humans evolved along side apes from a common ancestor.  There's a difference between the two concepts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From our point of view what's the difference if we evolved from one ape or another.  We ultimately evolved from protozoa/bacteria/viruses/whatever.  All evolution says is that we didn't pop up out of the muck fully formed, and that flies in the face of a literal interpretation of Genesis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I want you to write a computer program that writes a more complex computer program that keeps replicating itself and becomes more advanced and meaningful.  To my knowledge, no one has been able to do it.  The idea that a lizard rubbed its face on a rock or a tree and an eye popped out is rediculous because life and dna requires information.  If I mixed up a dna sequence in some soup, who would arrange it?  You?  Design in dna requires a designer.
Click to expand...


Maybe no one has been able to do it because no one has the knowledge of a god.  Remember that some civilizations thought the Spanish were gods because they rode horses.


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## Chuckt

pacer said:


> From a Christian standpoint, it seems our only purpose for being is in the service of God and our behavior in this life determines our destiny in the next.



I think God's purpose is our purpose:

John 10:10   The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: *I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly*.


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## LittleNipper

Asclepias said:


> Chuckt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PainefulTruth said:
> 
> 
> 
> From our point of view what's the difference if we evolved from one ape or another.  We ultimately evolved from protozoa/bacteria/viruses/whatever.  All evolution says is that we didn't pop up out of the muck fully formed, and that flies in the face of a literal interpretation of Genesis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want you to write a computer program that writes a more complex computer program that keeps replicating itself and becomes more advanced and meaningful.  To my knowledge, no one has been able to do it.  The idea that a lizard rubbed its face on a rock or a tree and an eye popped out is rediculous because life and dna requires information.  If I mixed up a dna sequence in some soup, who would arrange it?  You?  Design in dna requires a designer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe no one has been able to do it because no one has the knowledge of a god.  Remember that some civilizations thought the Spanish were gods because they rode horses.
Click to expand...

If God existed, He'd have created the Bible.


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## Asclepias

LittleNipper said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chuckt said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want you to write a computer program that writes a more complex computer program that keeps replicating itself and becomes more advanced and meaningful.  To my knowledge, no one has been able to do it.  The idea that a lizard rubbed its face on a rock or a tree and an eye popped out is rediculous because life and dna requires information.  If I mixed up a dna sequence in some soup, who would arrange it?  You?  Design in dna requires a designer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe no one has been able to do it because no one has the knowledge of a god.  Remember that some civilizations thought the Spanish were gods because they rode horses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If God existed, He'd have created the Bible.
Click to expand...


The bible is man made.  God is real.


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## LittleNipper

Asclepias said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe no one has been able to do it because no one has the knowledge of a god.  Remember that some civilizations thought the Spanish were gods because they rode horses.
> 
> 
> 
> If God existed, He'd have created the Bible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The bible is man made.  God is real.
Click to expand...

If God is real, He would reveal Himself and present a purpose. The Bible is the only "religious " book that makes everyone in it seem stupid. I really doubt that human authors wish to appear ignorant and inept.... I mean were Adam and Eve smart? Didn't Noah get raped? Joseph could keep his mouth shut about himself.  Moses kept saying how bad he was at public speaking.  King Saul never followed the simplest of directions, King Davis took another man's wife and then arranged his death, King Solomon being the wisest married a lot of pagan women (is that wise?)...
The Egyptian Pharaohs were all gods, The Greeks were talented know-it-alls, and the Romans were all powerful. So much for pagan beliefs.


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## Asclepias

LittleNipper said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> If God existed, He'd have created the Bible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The bible is man made.  God is real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If God is real, He would reveal Himself and present a purpose. The Bible is the only "religious " book that makes everyone in it seem stupid. I really doubt that human authors wish to appear ignorant and inept.... I mean were Adam and Eve smart? Didn't Noah get raped? Joseph could keep his mouth shut about himself.  Moses kept saying how bad he was at public speaking.  King Saul never followed the simplest of directions, King Davis took another man's wife and then arranged his death, King Solomon being the wisest married a lot of pagan women (is that wise?)...
> The Egyptian Pharaohs were all gods, The Greeks were talented know-it-alls, and the Romans were all powerful. So much for pagan beliefs.
Click to expand...


What makes you think God would reveal himself in the manner you deem to be appropriate?  I dont put much stock in the bible except for historical purposes but God or something similar exists.


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## LittleNipper

Asclepias said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> 
> The bible is man made.  God is real.
> 
> 
> 
> If God is real, He would reveal Himself and present a purpose. The Bible is the only "religious " book that makes everyone in it seem stupid. I really doubt that human authors wish to appear ignorant and inept.... I mean were Adam and Eve smart? Didn't Noah get raped? Joseph could keep his mouth shut about himself.  Moses kept saying how bad he was at public speaking.  King Saul never followed the simplest of directions, King Davis took another man's wife and then arranged his death, King Solomon being the wisest married a lot of pagan women (is that wise?)...
> The Egyptian Pharaohs were all gods, The Greeks were talented know-it-alls, and the Romans were all powerful. So much for pagan beliefs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What makes you think God would reveal himself in the manner you deem to be appropriate?  I dont put much stock in the bible except for historical purposes but God or something similar exists.
Click to expand...


Because He needs to save us from our sinful selves, or we will be forever separated from a perfect and just God. And we are neither.


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## Asclepias

LittleNipper said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> If God is real, He would reveal Himself and present a purpose. The Bible is the only "religious " book that makes everyone in it seem stupid. I really doubt that human authors wish to appear ignorant and inept.... I mean were Adam and Eve smart? Didn't Noah get raped? Joseph could keep his mouth shut about himself.  Moses kept saying how bad he was at public speaking.  King Saul never followed the simplest of directions, King Davis took another man's wife and then arranged his death, King Solomon being the wisest married a lot of pagan women (is that wise?)...
> The Egyptian Pharaohs were all gods, The Greeks were talented know-it-alls, and the Romans were all powerful. So much for pagan beliefs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think God would reveal himself in the manner you deem to be appropriate?  I dont put much stock in the bible except for historical purposes but God or something similar exists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because He needs to save us from our sinful selves, or we will be forever separated from a perfect and just God. And we are neither.
Click to expand...


Does sound like a paradox doesnt it?


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## LittleNipper

Asclepias said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think God would reveal himself in the manner you deem to be appropriate?  I dont put much stock in the bible except for historical purposes but God or something similar exists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because He needs to save us from our sinful selves, or we will be forever separated from a perfect and just God. And we are neither.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does sound like a paradox doesnt it?
Click to expand...


No, "paradox" is what one parks his boat between.............


----------



## PainefulTruth

daveman said:


> Yet evolution does not explain the origin of life.



Not yet, but it's looking like the explanation will be a natural one, like everything else so far, since before the Big Bang.



LittleNipper said:


> If God existed, He'd have created the Bible.



If God _existed_?  If God exists, It is definitely laissez-faire and would not have created the Bible.



Asclepias said:


> The bible is man made.



True dat.



> God is real.



So far it's a 50/50 hung jury.



LittleNipper said:


> If God is real, He would reveal Himself and present a purpose.



Why would God present Itself?  The purpose is pretty self evident, but we haven't gotten it from God.




> The Egyptian Pharaohs were all gods, The Greeks were talented know-it-alls, and the Romans were all powerful. So much for pagan beliefs.



And so it goes with all revealed religions.


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## LittleNipper

The only reason man exists is to glorify God. We were made for God's glory. without God we would not exist and there would be no purpose.


----------



## LittleNipper

PainefulTruth said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yet evolution does not explain the origin of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not yet, but it's looking like the explanation will be a natural one, like everything else so far, since before the Big Bang.
> 
> 
> 
> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> If God existed, He'd have created the Bible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If God _existed_?  If God exists, It is definitely laissez-faire and would not have created the Bible.
> 
> 
> 
> True dat.
> 
> 
> 
> So far it's a 50/50 hung jury.
> 
> 
> 
> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> If God is real, He would reveal Himself and present a purpose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why would God present Itself?  The purpose is pretty self evident, but we haven't gotten it from God.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Egyptian Pharaohs were all gods, The Greeks were talented know-it-alls, and the Romans were all powerful. So much for pagan beliefs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And so it goes with all revealed religions.
Click to expand...


Here are two ends of life specified. 1. The glorifying of God. 2. The enjoying of God.

First. The glorifying of God, 1 Pet. 4:11. "That God in all things may be glorified." The glory of God is a silver thread which must run through all our actions. l Cor. 10:31. "Whether therefore ye eat or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God." Everything works to some end in things natural and artificial; now, man being a rational creature, must propose some end to himself, and that should be, that he may lift up God in the world. He had better lose his life than the end of his living. The great truth asserted is that the end of every man's living should be to glorify God. Glorifying God has respect to all the persons in the Trinity; it respects God the Father who gave us life; God the Son, who lost his life for us; and God the Holy Ghost, who produces a new life in us; we must bring glory to the whole Trinity.


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## PainefulTruth

LittleNipper said:


> The only reason man exists is to glorify God. We were made for God's glory. without God we would not exist and there would be no purpose.



When you equate God with Truth (knowledge, justice, love and beauty), you pretty well summed it up.  And we glorify/worship God/Truth by it's pursuit.


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## Delta4Embassy

Our purpose is whatever we think it is. Any planet that can sustain life will evolve life. But it's not any spiritual mystery, it's just chemistry. 

For myself, I think my purpose is to be an asset and not a liability. I make cupcakes and cookies twice every week and give them out to everyone I see (and people on my distribution list.) Giving joy in the form of a cokie or cupcake makes the recipiant happy, and me as well. Spreading posivity and joy is me being an asset. Maybe someone who got one will go home happier and spread their joy to their kids, spouse, or someone else. Like thinking of Tuesdays and Fridays (bake days) as days I knock a domino over and there's no telling how many dominoes fall because of the one. But the two gifts I've gotten in return so far suggest people are in fact doing the gift-giving thing as well.

Growing up, friends' mothers often made baked goodies for us kids and it stands out in my mind as one of the many positive experiences I had growing up. And I knew even then as a child, that where ever I lived as an adult I wanted to do that sort of thing too. And figure continuing the pattern with kids and adults here now is ensuring good things like this will continue even after I'm done and dusted.


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## syrenn

pacer said:


> If our only reason for being is to strive for everlasting life in heaven, how can we derive meaning and purpose out of this life?



the purpose of life....is to live before you die. 

end of story.


----------



## Drumhead

Maybe...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4CvFWCULuI]One Thing - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Delta4Embassy

"A preoccupation with the next world clearly shows an inability to cope credibly with this one." Richard K. Morgan (Broken Angels)


----------



## AquaAthena

pacer said:


> If our only reason for being is to strive for everlasting life in heaven, how can we derive meaning and purpose out of this life?



My purpose in life is to take it one day at a time and do the best I can, for myself and others. I don't think ahead, but do practice the Golden Rule. I know the difference between right and wrong, and hold myself to very high standards.


----------



## Unkotare

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Give-Damn-Frustrations-Challenges/dp/1466369094/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1387724117&sr=1-2&keywords=don%27t%27+give+a+damn]Don&#39;t Give a Damn: How to Cope with the Fears, Frustrations, and Challenges of Daily Life: Dr. Bill Chun MD: 9781466369092: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]


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## Jackson

I believe their are one or more purposes for each life and once you are no longer needed you are called back home.  So, as long as I am here, I do give thoughts to what reasons I am here.  I help with the children's home work give freely of my time and money and help especially strangers as Jesus did.  Not only does it make me think I might be hitting some of my reasons for being here, it just gives me a smile in my heart.


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## Wry Catcher

pacer said:


> If our only reason for being is to strive for everlasting life in heaven, how can we derive meaning and purpose out of this life?



I realize this may be a serious question, but ...

RockyMusic - Monty Python's Meaning of Life (1983 - Sex Education) video


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## schlock

religion is a poor mans philosophy
religion needs no education
religion only supports a theory that if you believe you will be saved
hopefully from a tyranny of evil
that religion also provides
it also provides hopefully a glimpse into the fourth dimension
the way I look at it
religion 1pt.


----------

