# Breeding Nazis in Ukraine, has American Media reported you about that?



## Stratford57

Soros and Obama’s administration have also tuned Ukraine into a cozy place for breeding, training and recruiting of Neo-Nazis. FBI agents and several Congressmen have been trying to attract the people attention but...American  Media has been sooooo silent about that.

1. Criminal Complaint of special FBI agent Scott Bierwirth
https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...laint/0f1e76cdeef814133f24/optimized/full.pdf

Page 9:
In August 2018 RAM members had a trip in Ukraine and met with Olena Semenyaka the leader of a political party in Ukraine which was found out of a military regiment  called Azov Battalion. *Azov Battalion is a paramilitary unit of Ukrainian National Guard which is known for its association with Neo-Nazi ideology and use of Nazi symbolism and which is believed to have participated in training and radicalizing United States-based white supremacy organizations.*

!!!! RAM is an extremist group headquartered in S. California.

Olena Semenyaka’s picture:





2. October 16, 2019 , *Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?*

“White supremacist violent extremism, one type of racially- and ethnically-motivated violent extremism, is one of the most potent forces driving domestic terrorism.” Rose’s letter names *Azov Battalion*, Nordic Resistance Movement, and National Action as three examples of foreign groups that have been *connected to recent terrorist attacks around the world as well as recruiting and influencing American citizens*.

The shooter in the Christchurch, New Zeeland, was also trained in Azov Battalion.
Rose Leads Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?


3. KYIV, Ukraine—When Deputy Secretary of State George Kent spoke at the U.S. House of Representatives impeachment hearings this week, he painted a powerful picture of Ukrainian bravery in the face of Russian aggression.

But Kent most likely did not have in mind the most famous—and infamous—of those volunteer units, the Azov Battalion, which *40 members of Congress have asked the State Department to designate as a Foreign Terrorist Organization.* Some of its members are neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and avowed anti-Semites.
Ukraine’s Anti-Russia Azov Battalion: ‘Minutemen’ or Neo-Nazi Terrorists?


4. Ex FBI agent Ali Soufan:

And what Syria did for jihadists, Ukraine is doing for white supremacists. “It’s had a galvanizing effect,” Blazakis said. “It’s given them, for lack of a better word, a playground in which there is turmoil and chaos, a kind of playground that doesn’t exist in a conventional sense in places like the United States.”

One of the most prominent destinations for these fighters is the *Azov Battalion, a pro-Ukrainian force that analysts say has embraced neo-Nazi views while targeting right-wing or white supremacist groups around the world for recruitment.*
Ukraine's Civil War Is a 'Playground' for White Supremacists. What Could Go Wrong?

Pictures of Azov Battalion:

















How come American journalists have not reported about such a Nazi nest in the middle of Europe? Russian journalists have been good about reporting this problem. All the facts above are from their Nov 22 news release:

www.1tv.ru/news/issue/2019-11-22/21:00#4


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## occupied

Fuck Russia and that faggot Putin as well. See that comrade? I get to live in a country where I can call your boss a pole smoker and I don't get killed.


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## Stratford57

occupied said:


> Fuck Russia and that faggot Putin as well. See that comrade? I get to live in a country where I can call your boss a pole smoker and I don't get killed.


The thread is about  training Nazis and terrorists in Ukraine, do you have anything to contribute to it besides your hate to Russia?


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## occupied

Stratford57 said:


> occupied said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck Russia and that faggot Putin as well. See that comrade? I get to live in a country where I can call your boss a pole smoker and I don't get killed.
> 
> 
> 
> The thread is about  training Nazis and terrorists in Ukraine, do you have anything to contribute to it besides your hate to Russia?
Click to expand...

Not really. I just dropped by to take a shit on your Russian propaganda. We are all aware that there are strong right wing nationalist movements across Europe. We are also aware that Russia supports most of them for their destabilizing effect on free societies.


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## Stratford57

occupied said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> occupied said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck Russia and that faggot Putin as well. See that comrade? I get to live in a country where I can call your boss a pole smoker and I don't get killed.
> 
> 
> 
> The thread is about  training Nazis and terrorists in Ukraine, do you have anything to contribute to it besides your hate to Russia?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. I just dropped by to take a shit on your Russian propaganda. We are all aware that there are strong right wing nationalist movements across Europe. We are also aware that Russia supports most of them for their destabilizing effect on free societies.
Click to expand...

Have you noticed that my "Russian propaganda" is based on the statements of US FBI agents and US Congressmen only?


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## Toddsterpatriot

Wow!

A Commie says Nazis are bad. DURR.


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## B. Kidd

Azov Battalion has been around before and after the Maiden.
Who do you think sniped all those protesters?


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## Death Angel

Stratford57 said:


> occupied said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck Russia and that faggot Putin as well. See that comrade? I get to live in a country where I can call your boss a pole smoker and I don't get killed.
> 
> 
> 
> The thread is about  training Nazis and terrorists in Ukraine, do you have anything to contribute to it besides your hate to Russia?
Click to expand...

Occupied actually loves the communists. Democrats just play this game for now


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## occupied

Stratford57 said:


> occupied said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> occupied said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck Russia and that faggot Putin as well. See that comrade? I get to live in a country where I can call your boss a pole smoker and I don't get killed.
> 
> 
> 
> The thread is about  training Nazis and terrorists in Ukraine, do you have anything to contribute to it besides your hate to Russia?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. I just dropped by to take a shit on your Russian propaganda. We are all aware that there are strong right wing nationalist movements across Europe. We are also aware that Russia supports most of them for their destabilizing effect on free societies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have you noticed that my "Russian propaganda" is based on the statements of US FBI agents and US Congressmen only?
Click to expand...

When you praised Russian journalists I knew who I was dealing with. Anything pro-Russia is suspect and not to be trusted.


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## Stratford57

B. Kidd said:


> Azov Battalion has been around before and after the Maiden.
> Who do you think sniped all those protesters?



Confession of snipers, who killed both police and protestors in Kiev 2014 in the new Italian film

"Ukraine-the hidden truth" an Italian film about snipers on the Maidan in Ukraine

^English subtitles

Long story of the Italian documentary short:

Feb 20, 2014: a group of unknown snipers starts shooting both at police and protesters, pretty soon almost 80 killed.. Until today *the official version is about slaughter conducted by order of Kremlin-backed government.*

Minister of foreign affairs of Estonia: evidence shows that the people who were killed by snipers from both sides (policemen and people from the street) that they were *the same snipers who killed the people from both sides. *It’s not Yanuckovitch who stands behind snipers but somebody from the new coalition.
Ukraine crisis: bugged call reveals conspiracy theory about Kiev snipers

They were *Georgian citizens who were among provokers* acting on the protester’s side. One of them says: “The story starts in Tbilisi and there are many personalities who are hidden behind the scenes, first of them is ex-president of Georgia Mikhail Saakashvili. He’s the main hero of the short bloody war against Russia in 2008. The second was his military adviser Mamuka Mamulashvili. Afterwards *he becomes the leader of “Georgian Legion”, a Georgian volunteer group to combat against pro-Russian protesters in Donbass. *This group was organized by Saakashvili, he gave $1000, promised to give $1500 later to each group member and ordered to go to Kiev.

Snipers:

“We had to make provocations, to provoke policemen to turn against the crowd and to attack the people. Mamulashvili presented an *American military guy* [Brian Christopher Boyenger, a sniper from 101 Airborne division USA] and told us *he would be our instructor*. After Maidan he went to Donbass where he would fight in “Georgian Legion”,* he was the one who gave them orders *”

The first suspicions that the protestors were using small arms were connected to Sergey Pashinsky, who was one of Maidan leaders and later became a deputy of Ukrainian parliament.

” In February one could see Parubiy, Pashinsky and Brian in hotel “Ukraine” very often and they were bringing bags with weapons (Makarov pistols, Kalashnikovs automatic rifles, carabines and packs of cartridges. Pashinsky said: *“We have to start shooting, we can’t allow early presidential elections”*. We had to shoot to make more chaos, mess and panic. *There were two Lithuanians in our group too.”*

“Pashinsky told us to take our things and to follow him to Conservatory building, the group was masked. *We were ordered to shoot both policemen (“Berkut”) and protesters without making any difference.* Only lated I realized: we were used, it was a set up.”

While there was shooting at the crowd from “Ukraine” hotel, the protesters were trying to hide inside the hotel. Thus the victims were next to their killers.

At the end of the documentary those snipers told why they decided to tell about this now, not 3 years ago.

Confession of snipers, who killed both police and protestors in Kiev 2014 in the new Italian film


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## JWBooth

*Breeding Nazis in Ukraine, has American Media reported you about that?*



Stratford57 said:


> Soros and Obama’s administration have also tuned Ukraine into a cozy place for breeding, training and recruiting of Neo-Nazis. FBI agents and several Congressmen have been trying to attract the people attention but...American  Media has been sooooo silent about that.
> 
> 1. Criminal Complaint of special FBI agent Scott Bierwirth
> https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...laint/0f1e76cdeef814133f24/optimized/full.pdf
> 
> Page 9:
> In August 2018 RAM members had a trip in Ukraine and met with Olena Semenyaka the leader of a political party in Ukraine which was found out of a military regiment  called Azov Battalion. *Azov Battalion is a paramilitary unit of Ukrainian National Guard which is known for its association with Neo-Nazi ideology and use of Nazi symbolism and which is believed to have participated in training and radicalizing United States-based white supremacy organizations.*
> 
> !!!! RAM is an extremist group headquartered in S. California.
> 
> Olena Semenyaka’s picture:
> View attachment 291322
> 
> 2. October 16, 2019 , *Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?*
> 
> “White supremacist violent extremism, one type of racially- and ethnically-motivated violent extremism, is one of the most potent forces driving domestic terrorism.” Rose’s letter names *Azov Battalion*, Nordic Resistance Movement, and National Action as three examples of foreign groups that have been *connected to recent terrorist attacks around the world as well as recruiting and influencing American citizens*.
> 
> The shooter in the Christchurch, New Zeeland, was also trained in Azov Battalion.
> Rose Leads Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?
> 
> 
> 3. KYIV, Ukraine—When Deputy Secretary of State George Kent spoke at the U.S. House of Representatives impeachment hearings this week, he painted a powerful picture of Ukrainian bravery in the face of Russian aggression.
> 
> But Kent most likely did not have in mind the most famous—and infamous—of those volunteer units, the Azov Battalion, which *40 members of Congress have asked the State Department to designate as a Foreign Terrorist Organization.* Some of its members are neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and avowed anti-Semites.
> Ukraine’s Anti-Russia Azov Battalion: ‘Minutemen’ or Neo-Nazi Terrorists?
> 
> 
> 4. Ex FBI agent Ali Soufan:
> 
> And what Syria did for jihadists, Ukraine is doing for white supremacists. “It’s had a galvanizing effect,” Blazakis said. “It’s given them, for lack of a better word, a playground in which there is turmoil and chaos, a kind of playground that doesn’t exist in a conventional sense in places like the United States.”
> 
> One of the most prominent destinations for these fighters is the *Azov Battalion, a pro-Ukrainian force that analysts say has embraced neo-Nazi views while targeting right-wing or white supremacist groups around the world for recruitment.*
> Ukraine's Civil War Is a 'Playground' for White Supremacists. What Could Go Wrong?
> 
> Pictures of Azov Battalion:
> 
> View attachment 291323
> 
> View attachment 291324
> 
> View attachment 291325
> 
> View attachment 291326
> 
> How come American journalists have not reported about such a Nazi nest in the middle of Europe? Russian journalists have been good about reporting this problem. All the facts above are from their Nov 22 news release:
> 
> www.1tv.ru/news/issue/2019-11-22/21:00#4



Like backing Al Qaeda terrorists in Libya and Syria, Ukronazis align with the dimpublicrat war party imperialist agenda.


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## B. Kidd

Stratford57 said:


> B. Kidd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Azov Battalion has been around before and after the Maiden.
> Who do you think sniped all those protesters?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Confession of snipers, who killed both police and protestors in Kiev 2014 in the new Italian film
> 
> "Ukraine-the hidden truth" an Italian film about snipers on the Maidan in Ukraine
> 
> ^English subtitles
> 
> Long story of the Italian documentary short:
> 
> Feb 20, 2014: a group of unknown snipers starts shooting both at police and protesters, pretty soon almost 80 killed.. Until today *the official version is about slaughter conducted by order of Kremlin-backed government.*
> 
> Minister of foreign affairs of Estonia: evidence shows that the people who were killed by snipers from both sides (policemen and people from the street) that they were *the same snipers who killed the people from both sides. *It’s not Yanuckovitch who stands behind snipers but somebody from the new coalition.
> 
> They were *Georgian citizens who were among provokers* acting on the protester’s side. One of them says: “The story starts in Tbilisi and there are many personalities who are hidden behind the scenes, first of them is ex-president of Georgia Mikhail Saakashvili. He’s the main hero of the short bloody war against Russia in 2008. The second was his military adviser Mamuka Mamulashvili. Afterwards *he becomes the leader of “Georgian Legion”, a Georgian volunteer group to combat against pro-Russian protesters in Donbass. *This group was organized by Saakashvili, he gave $1000, promised to give $1500 later to each group member and ordered to go to Kiev.
> 
> Snipers:
> 
> “We had to make provocations, to provoke policemen to turn against the crowd and to attack the people. Mamulashvili presented an *American military guy* [Brian Christopher Boyenger, a sniper from 101 Airborne division USA] and told us *he would be our instructor*. After Maidan he went to Donbass where he would fight in “Georgian Legion”,* he was the one who gave them orders *”
> 
> The first suspicions that the protestors were using small arms were connected to Sergey Pashinsky, who was one of Maidan leaders and later became a deputy of Ukrainian parliament.
> 
> ” In February one could see Parubiy, Pashinsky and Brian in hotel “Ukraine” very often and they were bringing bags with weapons (Makarov pistols, Kalashnikovs automatic rifles, carabines and packs of cartridges. Pashinsky said: *“We have to start shooting, we can’t allow early presidential elections”*. We had to shoot to make more chaos, mess and panic. *There were two Lithuanians in our group too.”*
> 
> “Pashinsky told us to take our things and to follow him to Conservatory building, the group was masked. *We were ordered to shoot both policemen (“Berkut”) and protesters without making any difference.* Only lated I realized: we were used, it was a set up.”
> 
> While there was shooting at the crowd from “Ukraine” hotel, the protesters were trying to hide inside the hotel. Thus the victims were next to their killers.
> 
> At the end of the documentary those snipers told why they decided to tell about this now, not 3 years ago.
> 
> Confession of snipers, who killed both police and protestors in Kiev 2014 in the new Italian film
Click to expand...


Thank you!
American Muppets media screens out the truth when it's not in American Gov't interests.


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## JGalt

Actually it's the other way around. Neo-Nazis and far right wing nationalists are rising in *defiance* of policies by those like Obama, Soros, socialism, and globalism. Given the state of the world where countries are being over-run by immigrants, criminals, radicalized Islamics, and terrorists, I can hardly say that I blame them for wanting to protect the integrity and autonomy of their country.

Until they they start trying to annex neighboring countries and blaming the Jews, I have no problem with them. After all, it's not those Neo-Nazis who consider the Jews their primary enemy, it's the radical Islamics and globalists who are invading their country, who seek the extermination of the Jews. That's pretty much common knowledge and like they say, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."


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## Stratford57

Now you know whom Dems want to supply the weapons with!

A shipment of 100 PSRL-1 systems reportedly arrived in Ukraine in April 2017, as confirmed by both the contract leaked by Southfront and Ukrainian journalist Yury Butusov. According to a Facebook post by Butusov, many of these 100 PSRL-1 systems were sent to military units in the Donbas, including military unit 3057 based in Mariupol—more widely known as the unit made up of soldiers from the “Azov Battalion,” the notorious detachment that has been integrated into the Ukrainian National Guard.

On July 20, 2017, in photographs shared by an Azov Battalion website, soldiers wearing Azov insignia in the Azov Battalion tested PSRL-1 systems.

American Lethal Weapons Could Already Be on the Ukrainian Front Line


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## JGalt

Stratford57 said:


> Now you know whom Dems want to supply the weapons with!
> 
> A shipment of 100 PSRL-1 systems reportedly arrived in Ukraine in April 2017, as confirmed by both the contract leaked by Southfront and Ukrainian journalist Yury Butusov. According to a Facebook post by Butusov, many of these 100 PSRL-1 systems were sent to military units in the Donbas, including military unit 3057 based in Mariupol—more widely known as the unit made up of soldiers from the “Azov Battalion,” the notorious detachment that has been integrated into the Ukrainian National Guard.
> 
> On July 20, 2017, in photographs shared by an Azov Battalion website, soldiers wearing Azov insignia in the Azov Battalion tested PSRL-1 systems.
> 
> American Lethal Weapons Could Already Be on the Ukrainian Front Line
> 
> View attachment 291329



The PSRL-1 is nothing more than our version of your RPG. I'd be more worried about those Javelin missiles the Ukes have. They can flat fuck up a Russian T-90M tank in a heartbeat.

Ever see what one of those things does to a T-72 tank? The turret sometimes pops off like a bottle cap on a shaken-up bottle of soda...


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## Stratford57

JWBooth said:


> *Breeding Nazis in Ukraine, has American Media reported you about that?*
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Soros and Obama’s administration have also tuned Ukraine into a cozy place for breeding, training and recruiting of Neo-Nazis. FBI agents and several Congressmen have been trying to attract the people attention but...American  Media has been sooooo silent about that.
> 
> 1. Criminal Complaint of special FBI agent Scott Bierwirth
> https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...laint/0f1e76cdeef814133f24/optimized/full.pdf
> 
> Page 9:
> In August 2018 RAM members had a trip in Ukraine and met with Olena Semenyaka the leader of a political party in Ukraine which was found out of a military regiment  called Azov Battalion. *Azov Battalion is a paramilitary unit of Ukrainian National Guard which is known for its association with Neo-Nazi ideology and use of Nazi symbolism and which is believed to have participated in training and radicalizing United States-based white supremacy organizations.*
> 
> !!!! RAM is an extremist group headquartered in S. California.
> 
> Olena Semenyaka’s picture:
> View attachment 291322
> 
> 2. October 16, 2019 , *Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?*
> 
> “White supremacist violent extremism, one type of racially- and ethnically-motivated violent extremism, is one of the most potent forces driving domestic terrorism.” Rose’s letter names *Azov Battalion*, Nordic Resistance Movement, and National Action as three examples of foreign groups that have been *connected to recent terrorist attacks around the world as well as recruiting and influencing American citizens*.
> 
> The shooter in the Christchurch, New Zeeland, was also trained in Azov Battalion.
> Rose Leads Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?
> 
> 
> 3. KYIV, Ukraine—When Deputy Secretary of State George Kent spoke at the U.S. House of Representatives impeachment hearings this week, he painted a powerful picture of Ukrainian bravery in the face of Russian aggression.
> 
> But Kent most likely did not have in mind the most famous—and infamous—of those volunteer units, the Azov Battalion, which *40 members of Congress have asked the State Department to designate as a Foreign Terrorist Organization.* Some of its members are neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and avowed anti-Semites.
> Ukraine’s Anti-Russia Azov Battalion: ‘Minutemen’ or Neo-Nazi Terrorists?
> 
> 
> 4. Ex FBI agent Ali Soufan:
> 
> And what Syria did for jihadists, Ukraine is doing for white supremacists. “It’s had a galvanizing effect,” Blazakis said. “It’s given them, for lack of a better word, a playground in which there is turmoil and chaos, a kind of playground that doesn’t exist in a conventional sense in places like the United States.”
> 
> One of the most prominent destinations for these fighters is the *Azov Battalion, a pro-Ukrainian force that analysts say has embraced neo-Nazi views while targeting right-wing or white supremacist groups around the world for recruitment.*
> Ukraine's Civil War Is a 'Playground' for White Supremacists. What Could Go Wrong?
> 
> Pictures of Azov Battalion:
> 
> View attachment 291323
> 
> View attachment 291324
> 
> View attachment 291325
> 
> View attachment 291326
> 
> How come American journalists have not reported about such a Nazi nest in the middle of Europe? Russian journalists have been good about reporting this problem. All the facts above are from their Nov 22 news release:
> 
> www.1tv.ru/news/issue/2019-11-22/21:00#4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like backing Al Qaeda terrorists in Libya and Syria, Ukronazis align with the dimpublicrat war party imperialist agenda.
Click to expand...

It's just a part of Deep State's plan of decreasing the population on the Earth, the civil people like you and me, like our children and parents....


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## Stratford57

occupied said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> occupied said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> occupied said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck Russia and that faggot Putin as well. See that comrade? I get to live in a country where I can call your boss a pole smoker and I don't get killed.
> 
> 
> 
> The thread is about  training Nazis and terrorists in Ukraine, do you have anything to contribute to it besides your hate to Russia?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. I just dropped by to take a shit on your Russian propaganda. We are all aware that there are strong right wing nationalist movements across Europe. We are also aware that Russia supports most of them for their destabilizing effect on free societies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have you noticed that my "Russian propaganda" is based on the statements of US FBI agents and US Congressmen only?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When you praised Russian journalists I knew who I was dealing with. Anything pro-Russia is suspect and not to be trusted.
Click to expand...

So far you can see with your own eyes that Russia has presented the true facts. My question still is: why no American journalists have informed you about Nazi threat coming from "democratic" Ukraine?


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## Stratford57

Now we've received a fresh confirmation of the subject of this thread. Coming from Spain.

*‘You f*cking Nazi!’: Fan chants at Ukrainian footballer Zozulya cause match to be abandoned in Spain*

Football Match Cancelled After Fans Chant Against Ukrainian Player With Known Nazi Ties
‘You f*cking Nazi!’: Fan chants at Ukrainian footballer Zozulya cause match to be abandoned in Spain

Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky wants to "shake the hand" of far-right linked "patriot" footballer Roman Zozulya.
Zelensky hailed Ukraine international footballer Zozulya _“a patriot”_ after Spanish fans showered the Albacete midfielder with chants of _*"You f*cking Nazi*!”_ during a Segunda Division match away to Rayo Vallecano at the weekend, which forced its abandonment.

Praise a Nazi: Ukraine President Zelensky's adulation of footballer Zozulya is backwards step in fight against fascism
Ukraine leader backs Zozulya after 'Nazi' chants by Rayo fans

Why do they call Roman Zozulya “Nazi”? The origin of his confrontation with the fans of Rayo Vallecano

For those who keep screaming they don't trust RT, I doubled the links with other news sources.


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## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Now we've received a fresh confirmation of the subject of this thread. Coming from Spain.
> 
> *‘You f*cking Nazi!’: Fan chants at Ukrainian footballer Zozulya cause match to be abandoned in Spain*
> 
> Football Match Cancelled After Fans Chant Against Ukrainian Player With Known Nazi Ties
> ‘You f*cking Nazi!’: Fan chants at Ukrainian footballer Zozulya cause match to be abandoned in Spain
> 
> Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky wants to "shake the hand" of far-right linked "patriot" footballer Roman Zozulya.
> Zelensky hailed Ukraine international footballer Zozulya _“a patriot”_ after Spanish fans showered the Albacete midfielder with chants of _*"You f*cking Nazi*!”_ during a Segunda Division match away to Rayo Vallecano at the weekend, which forced its abandonment.
> 
> Praise a Nazi: Ukraine President Zelensky's adulation of footballer Zozulya is backwards step in fight against fascism
> Ukraine leader backs Zozulya after 'Nazi' chants by Rayo fans
> 
> Why do they call Roman Zozulya “Nazi”? The origin of his confrontation with the fans of Rayo Vallecano
> 
> For those who keep screaming they don't trust RT, I doubled the links with other news sources.



*For those who keep screaming they don't trust RT, I doubled the links with other news sources.* 

Who doesn't trust RT?
All Commie sources are very trustworthy, eh comrade?


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## Crepitus

Stratford57 said:


> Soros and Obama’s administration have also tuned Ukraine into a cozy place for breeding, training and recruiting of Neo-Nazis. FBI agents and several Congressmen have been trying to attract the people attention but...American  Media has been sooooo silent about that.
> 
> 1. Criminal Complaint of special FBI agent Scott Bierwirth
> https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...laint/0f1e76cdeef814133f24/optimized/full.pdf
> 
> Page 9:
> In August 2018 RAM members had a trip in Ukraine and met with Olena Semenyaka the leader of a political party in Ukraine which was found out of a military regiment  called Azov Battalion. *Azov Battalion is a paramilitary unit of Ukrainian National Guard which is known for its association with Neo-Nazi ideology and use of Nazi symbolism and which is believed to have participated in training and radicalizing United States-based white supremacy organizations.*
> 
> !!!! RAM is an extremist group headquartered in S. California.
> 
> Olena Semenyaka’s picture:
> View attachment 291322
> 
> 2. October 16, 2019 , *Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?*
> 
> “White supremacist violent extremism, one type of racially- and ethnically-motivated violent extremism, is one of the most potent forces driving domestic terrorism.” Rose’s letter names *Azov Battalion*, Nordic Resistance Movement, and National Action as three examples of foreign groups that have been *connected to recent terrorist attacks around the world as well as recruiting and influencing American citizens*.
> 
> The shooter in the Christchurch, New Zeeland, was also trained in Azov Battalion.
> Rose Leads Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?
> 
> 
> 3. KYIV, Ukraine—When Deputy Secretary of State George Kent spoke at the U.S. House of Representatives impeachment hearings this week, he painted a powerful picture of Ukrainian bravery in the face of Russian aggression.
> 
> But Kent most likely did not have in mind the most famous—and infamous—of those volunteer units, the Azov Battalion, which *40 members of Congress have asked the State Department to designate as a Foreign Terrorist Organization.* Some of its members are neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and avowed anti-Semites.
> Ukraine’s Anti-Russia Azov Battalion: ‘Minutemen’ or Neo-Nazi Terrorists?
> 
> 
> 4. Ex FBI agent Ali Soufan:
> 
> And what Syria did for jihadists, Ukraine is doing for white supremacists. “It’s had a galvanizing effect,” Blazakis said. “It’s given them, for lack of a better word, a playground in which there is turmoil and chaos, a kind of playground that doesn’t exist in a conventional sense in places like the United States.”
> 
> One of the most prominent destinations for these fighters is the *Azov Battalion, a pro-Ukrainian force that analysts say has embraced neo-Nazi views while targeting right-wing or white supremacist groups around the world for recruitment.*
> Ukraine's Civil War Is a 'Playground' for White Supremacists. What Could Go Wrong?
> 
> Pictures of Azov Battalion:
> 
> View attachment 291323
> 
> View attachment 291324
> 
> View attachment 291325
> 
> View attachment 291326
> 
> How come American journalists have not reported about such a Nazi nest in the middle of Europe? Russian journalists have been good about reporting this problem. All the facts above are from their Nov 22 news release:
> 
> www.1tv.ru/news/issue/2019-11-22/21:00#4


Why don't we worry about the NAZIs you tRumplings are breeding here first.


----------



## Crepitus

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now we've received a fresh confirmation of the subject of this thread. Coming from Spain.
> 
> *‘You f*cking Nazi!’: Fan chants at Ukrainian footballer Zozulya cause match to be abandoned in Spain*
> 
> Football Match Cancelled After Fans Chant Against Ukrainian Player With Known Nazi Ties
> ‘You f*cking Nazi!’: Fan chants at Ukrainian footballer Zozulya cause match to be abandoned in Spain
> 
> Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky wants to "shake the hand" of far-right linked "patriot" footballer Roman Zozulya.
> Zelensky hailed Ukraine international footballer Zozulya _“a patriot”_ after Spanish fans showered the Albacete midfielder with chants of _*"You f*cking Nazi*!”_ during a Segunda Division match away to Rayo Vallecano at the weekend, which forced its abandonment.
> 
> Praise a Nazi: Ukraine President Zelensky's adulation of footballer Zozulya is backwards step in fight against fascism
> Ukraine leader backs Zozulya after 'Nazi' chants by Rayo fans
> 
> Why do they call Roman Zozulya “Nazi”? The origin of his confrontation with the fans of Rayo Vallecano
> 
> For those who keep screaming they don't trust RT, I doubled the links with other news sources.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *For those who keep screaming they don't trust RT, I doubled the links with other news sources.*
> 
> Who doesn't trust RT?
> All Commie sources are very trustworthy, eh comrade?
Click to expand...

Maybe to you.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Crepitus said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now we've received a fresh confirmation of the subject of this thread. Coming from Spain.
> 
> *‘You f*cking Nazi!’: Fan chants at Ukrainian footballer Zozulya cause match to be abandoned in Spain*
> 
> Football Match Cancelled After Fans Chant Against Ukrainian Player With Known Nazi Ties
> ‘You f*cking Nazi!’: Fan chants at Ukrainian footballer Zozulya cause match to be abandoned in Spain
> 
> Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky wants to "shake the hand" of far-right linked "patriot" footballer Roman Zozulya.
> Zelensky hailed Ukraine international footballer Zozulya _“a patriot”_ after Spanish fans showered the Albacete midfielder with chants of _*"You f*cking Nazi*!”_ during a Segunda Division match away to Rayo Vallecano at the weekend, which forced its abandonment.
> 
> Praise a Nazi: Ukraine President Zelensky's adulation of footballer Zozulya is backwards step in fight against fascism
> Ukraine leader backs Zozulya after 'Nazi' chants by Rayo fans
> 
> Why do they call Roman Zozulya “Nazi”? The origin of his confrontation with the fans of Rayo Vallecano
> 
> For those who keep screaming they don't trust RT, I doubled the links with other news sources.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *For those who keep screaming they don't trust RT, I doubled the links with other news sources.*
> 
> Who doesn't trust RT?
> All Commie sources are very trustworthy, eh comrade?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe to you.
Click to expand...


Maybe we need more reset buttons? More flexibility?


----------



## Crepitus

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now we've received a fresh confirmation of the subject of this thread. Coming from Spain.
> 
> *‘You f*cking Nazi!’: Fan chants at Ukrainian footballer Zozulya cause match to be abandoned in Spain*
> 
> Football Match Cancelled After Fans Chant Against Ukrainian Player With Known Nazi Ties
> ‘You f*cking Nazi!’: Fan chants at Ukrainian footballer Zozulya cause match to be abandoned in Spain
> 
> Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky wants to "shake the hand" of far-right linked "patriot" footballer Roman Zozulya.
> Zelensky hailed Ukraine international footballer Zozulya _“a patriot”_ after Spanish fans showered the Albacete midfielder with chants of _*"You f*cking Nazi*!”_ during a Segunda Division match away to Rayo Vallecano at the weekend, which forced its abandonment.
> 
> Praise a Nazi: Ukraine President Zelensky's adulation of footballer Zozulya is backwards step in fight against fascism
> Ukraine leader backs Zozulya after 'Nazi' chants by Rayo fans
> 
> Why do they call Roman Zozulya “Nazi”? The origin of his confrontation with the fans of Rayo Vallecano
> 
> For those who keep screaming they don't trust RT, I doubled the links with other news sources.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *For those who keep screaming they don't trust RT, I doubled the links with other news sources.*
> 
> Who doesn't trust RT?
> All Commie sources are very trustworthy, eh comrade?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe we need more reset buttons? More flexibility?
Click to expand...

Naw, I'm sure it'll be ok after a couple more secret meeting with confiscated noteds and such.

tRump is just hoping Vladimir remembers to bring condoms this time.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Crepitus said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now we've received a fresh confirmation of the subject of this thread. Coming from Spain.
> 
> *‘You f*cking Nazi!’: Fan chants at Ukrainian footballer Zozulya cause match to be abandoned in Spain*
> 
> Football Match Cancelled After Fans Chant Against Ukrainian Player With Known Nazi Ties
> ‘You f*cking Nazi!’: Fan chants at Ukrainian footballer Zozulya cause match to be abandoned in Spain
> 
> Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky wants to "shake the hand" of far-right linked "patriot" footballer Roman Zozulya.
> Zelensky hailed Ukraine international footballer Zozulya _“a patriot”_ after Spanish fans showered the Albacete midfielder with chants of _*"You f*cking Nazi*!”_ during a Segunda Division match away to Rayo Vallecano at the weekend, which forced its abandonment.
> 
> Praise a Nazi: Ukraine President Zelensky's adulation of footballer Zozulya is backwards step in fight against fascism
> Ukraine leader backs Zozulya after 'Nazi' chants by Rayo fans
> 
> Why do they call Roman Zozulya “Nazi”? The origin of his confrontation with the fans of Rayo Vallecano
> 
> For those who keep screaming they don't trust RT, I doubled the links with other news sources.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *For those who keep screaming they don't trust RT, I doubled the links with other news sources.*
> 
> Who doesn't trust RT?
> All Commie sources are very trustworthy, eh comrade?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe we need more reset buttons? More flexibility?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Naw, I'm sure it'll be ok after a couple more secret meeting with confiscated noteds and such.
> 
> tRump is just hoping Vladimir remembers to bring condoms this time.
Click to expand...


Secret meetings....open mics.....reset buttons.


----------



## Crepitus

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now we've received a fresh confirmation of the subject of this thread. Coming from Spain.
> 
> *‘You f*cking Nazi!’: Fan chants at Ukrainian footballer Zozulya cause match to be abandoned in Spain*
> 
> Football Match Cancelled After Fans Chant Against Ukrainian Player With Known Nazi Ties
> ‘You f*cking Nazi!’: Fan chants at Ukrainian footballer Zozulya cause match to be abandoned in Spain
> 
> Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky wants to "shake the hand" of far-right linked "patriot" footballer Roman Zozulya.
> Zelensky hailed Ukraine international footballer Zozulya _“a patriot”_ after Spanish fans showered the Albacete midfielder with chants of _*"You f*cking Nazi*!”_ during a Segunda Division match away to Rayo Vallecano at the weekend, which forced its abandonment.
> 
> Praise a Nazi: Ukraine President Zelensky's adulation of footballer Zozulya is backwards step in fight against fascism
> Ukraine leader backs Zozulya after 'Nazi' chants by Rayo fans
> 
> Why do they call Roman Zozulya “Nazi”? The origin of his confrontation with the fans of Rayo Vallecano
> 
> For those who keep screaming they don't trust RT, I doubled the links with other news sources.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *For those who keep screaming they don't trust RT, I doubled the links with other news sources.*
> 
> Who doesn't trust RT?
> All Commie sources are very trustworthy, eh comrade?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe we need more reset buttons? More flexibility?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Naw, I'm sure it'll be ok after a couple more secret meeting with confiscated noteds and such.
> 
> tRump is just hoping Vladimir remembers to bring condoms this time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Secret meetings....open mics.....reset buttons.
Click to expand...

100+ meetings during the campaign, secret meetings with no records, secrets spilled in the Whitehouse, and "I believe him" says tRump.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Crepitus said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> *For those who keep screaming they don't trust RT, I doubled the links with other news sources.*
> 
> Who doesn't trust RT?
> All Commie sources are very trustworthy, eh comrade?
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe we need more reset buttons? More flexibility?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Naw, I'm sure it'll be ok after a couple more secret meeting with confiscated noteds and such.
> 
> tRump is just hoping Vladimir remembers to bring condoms this time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Secret meetings....open mics.....reset buttons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 100+ meetings during the campaign, secret meetings with no records, secrets spilled in the Whitehouse, and "I believe him" says tRump.
Click to expand...


*100+ meetings during the campaign,*

Like being in the same room as a Russian.....and 100s of other people?


----------



## Crepitus

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe to you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe we need more reset buttons? More flexibility?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Naw, I'm sure it'll be ok after a couple more secret meeting with confiscated noteds and such.
> 
> tRump is just hoping Vladimir remembers to bring condoms this time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Secret meetings....open mics.....reset buttons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 100+ meetings during the campaign, secret meetings with no records, secrets spilled in the Whitehouse, and "I believe him" says tRump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *100+ meetings during the campaign,*
> 
> Like being in the same room as a Russian.....and 100s of other people?
Click to expand...

Nope.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Crepitus said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe we need more reset buttons? More flexibility?
> 
> 
> 
> Naw, I'm sure it'll be ok after a couple more secret meeting with confiscated noteds and such.
> 
> tRump is just hoping Vladimir remembers to bring condoms this time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Secret meetings....open mics.....reset buttons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 100+ meetings during the campaign, secret meetings with no records, secrets spilled in the Whitehouse, and "I believe him" says tRump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *100+ meetings during the campaign,*
> 
> Like being in the same room as a Russian.....and 100s of other people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope.
Click to expand...


Why was Obama going to be flexible with Putin?
Why did Obama mockingly say, "The 80s called, they want their foreign policy back"?
Why did Hillary create a misspelled "reset" button?

Is it because, after decades of fellating Russians, Dems suddenly became hawkish?


----------



## Crepitus

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Naw, I'm sure it'll be ok after a couple more secret meeting with confiscated noteds and such.
> 
> tRump is just hoping Vladimir remembers to bring condoms this time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secret meetings....open mics.....reset buttons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 100+ meetings during the campaign, secret meetings with no records, secrets spilled in the Whitehouse, and "I believe him" says tRump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *100+ meetings during the campaign,*
> 
> Like being in the same room as a Russian.....and 100s of other people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why was Obama going to be flexible with Putin?
> Why did Obama mockingly say, "The 80s called, they want their foreign policy back"?
> Why did Hillary create a misspelled "reset" button?
> 
> Is it because, after decades of fellating Russians, Dems suddenly became hawkish?
Click to expand...

Projection at its finest.  Do you suppose dOnald brings lube or takes it dry?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Crepitus said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Secret meetings....open mics.....reset buttons.
> 
> 
> 
> 100+ meetings during the campaign, secret meetings with no records, secrets spilled in the Whitehouse, and "I believe him" says tRump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *100+ meetings during the campaign,*
> 
> Like being in the same room as a Russian.....and 100s of other people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why was Obama going to be flexible with Putin?
> Why did Obama mockingly say, "The 80s called, they want their foreign policy back"?
> Why did Hillary create a misspelled "reset" button?
> 
> Is it because, after decades of fellating Russians, Dems suddenly became hawkish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Projection at its finest.  Do you suppose dOnald brings lube or takes it dry?
Click to expand...


Projection, because Dems have always been so tough on Russia? DURR


----------



## Crepitus

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 100+ meetings during the campaign, secret meetings with no records, secrets spilled in the Whitehouse, and "I believe him" says tRump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *100+ meetings during the campaign,*
> 
> Like being in the same room as a Russian.....and 100s of other people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why was Obama going to be flexible with Putin?
> Why did Obama mockingly say, "The 80s called, they want their foreign policy back"?
> Why did Hillary create a misspelled "reset" button?
> 
> Is it because, after decades of fellating Russians, Dems suddenly became hawkish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Projection at its finest.  Do you suppose dOnald brings lube or takes it dry?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Projection, because Dems have always been so tough on Russia? DURR
Click to expand...

No, projection because that's what you're doing.

DUH.


----------



## White 6

Crepitus said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now we've received a fresh confirmation of the subject of this thread. Coming from Spain.
> 
> *‘You f*cking Nazi!’: Fan chants at Ukrainian footballer Zozulya cause match to be abandoned in Spain*
> 
> Football Match Cancelled After Fans Chant Against Ukrainian Player With Known Nazi Ties
> ‘You f*cking Nazi!’: Fan chants at Ukrainian footballer Zozulya cause match to be abandoned in Spain
> 
> Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky wants to "shake the hand" of far-right linked "patriot" footballer Roman Zozulya.
> Zelensky hailed Ukraine international footballer Zozulya _“a patriot”_ after Spanish fans showered the Albacete midfielder with chants of _*"You f*cking Nazi*!”_ during a Segunda Division match away to Rayo Vallecano at the weekend, which forced its abandonment.
> 
> Praise a Nazi: Ukraine President Zelensky's adulation of footballer Zozulya is backwards step in fight against fascism
> Ukraine leader backs Zozulya after 'Nazi' chants by Rayo fans
> 
> Why do they call Roman Zozulya “Nazi”? The origin of his confrontation with the fans of Rayo Vallecano
> 
> For those who keep screaming they don't trust RT, I doubled the links with other news sources.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *For those who keep screaming they don't trust RT, I doubled the links with other news sources.*
> 
> Who doesn't trust RT?
> All Commie sources are very trustworthy, eh comrade?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe we need more reset buttons? More flexibility?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Naw, I'm sure it'll be ok after a couple more secret meeting with confiscated noteds and such.
> 
> tRump is just hoping Vladimir remembers to bring condoms this time.
Click to expand...


I think he is actually hoping for more Lube.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Crepitus said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> *100+ meetings during the campaign,*
> 
> Like being in the same room as a Russian.....and 100s of other people?
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why was Obama going to be flexible with Putin?
> Why did Obama mockingly say, "The 80s called, they want their foreign policy back"?
> Why did Hillary create a misspelled "reset" button?
> 
> Is it because, after decades of fellating Russians, Dems suddenly became hawkish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Projection at its finest.  Do you suppose dOnald brings lube or takes it dry?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Projection, because Dems have always been so tough on Russia? DURR
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, projection because that's what you're doing.
> 
> DUH.
Click to expand...



Obama being tough on Putin. DURR


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Crepitus said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> *100+ meetings during the campaign,*
> 
> Like being in the same room as a Russian.....and 100s of other people?
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why was Obama going to be flexible with Putin?
> Why did Obama mockingly say, "The 80s called, they want their foreign policy back"?
> Why did Hillary create a misspelled "reset" button?
> 
> Is it because, after decades of fellating Russians, Dems suddenly became hawkish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Projection at its finest.  Do you suppose dOnald brings lube or takes it dry?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Projection, because Dems have always been so tough on Russia? DURR
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, projection because that's what you're doing.
> 
> DUH.
Click to expand...



Hillary being tough on Russia.


----------



## White 6

White 6 said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now we've received a fresh confirmation of the subject of this thread. Coming from Spain.
> 
> *‘You f*cking Nazi!’: Fan chants at Ukrainian footballer Zozulya cause match to be abandoned in Spain*
> 
> Football Match Cancelled After Fans Chant Against Ukrainian Player With Known Nazi Ties
> ‘You f*cking Nazi!’: Fan chants at Ukrainian footballer Zozulya cause match to be abandoned in Spain
> 
> Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky wants to "shake the hand" of far-right linked "patriot" footballer Roman Zozulya.
> Zelensky hailed Ukraine international footballer Zozulya _“a patriot”_ after Spanish fans showered the Albacete midfielder with chants of _*"You f*cking Nazi*!”_ during a Segunda Division match away to Rayo Vallecano at the weekend, which forced its abandonment.
> 
> Praise a Nazi: Ukraine President Zelensky's adulation of footballer Zozulya is backwards step in fight against fascism
> Ukraine leader backs Zozulya after 'Nazi' chants by Rayo fans
> 
> Why do they call Roman Zozulya “Nazi”? The origin of his confrontation with the fans of Rayo Vallecano
> 
> For those who keep screaming they don't trust RT, I doubled the links with other news sources.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *For those who keep screaming they don't trust RT, I doubled the links with other news sources.*
> 
> Who doesn't trust RT?
> All Commie sources are very trustworthy, eh comrade?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe we need more reset buttons? More flexibility?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Naw, I'm sure it'll be ok after a couple more secret meeting with confiscated noteds and such.
> 
> tRump is just hoping Vladimir remembers to bring condoms this time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think he is actually hoping for more Lube.
Click to expand...


But, back to the subject of the thread for a moment.  We have always (Republicans and Democrats alike) historically tended to ignore the kicks and labor pains in Europe until it forced us to rush to the delivery room to deal with a pregnant situation when we realized it was threatening our economy and our society.  I had occasion to be in Europe before and after the fall of the wall, when the Soviet Union as we new it collapsed and we dubiously declared victory in the "cold war".  I tend to think of the influx of X-soviet, eastern Europeans into free Europe as part of an old school Spetsnaz forward deployment per doctrine.  Inciting declension, revolt and anarchy by any means to the civilian population is doctrinaire.  Inciting and re-awakening old divisions once thought to be put down is an excellent tried and true strategy for disruptions of society.  The differences in level of Nazism on the entire continent is stark, more prevalent in and the closer you get to former eastern block countries and has been rising ever since (WE) declared cold war victory.  It was a victory or Russia and the Soviets, not THE victory.  The cold war never ended.  The early declaration may have just aided non-unformed warriors easier access to the European populations.


----------



## Stratford57

Crepitus said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> *For those who keep screaming they don't trust RT, I doubled the links with other news sources.*
> 
> Who doesn't trust RT?
> All Commie sources are very trustworthy, eh comrade?
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe we need more reset buttons? More flexibility?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Naw, I'm sure it'll be ok after a couple more secret meeting with confiscated noteds and such.
> 
> tRump is just hoping Vladimir remembers to bring condoms this time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Secret meetings....open mics.....reset buttons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 100+ meetings during the campaign, secret meetings with no records, secrets spilled in the Whitehouse, and "I believe him" says tRump.
Click to expand...

Prove your BS.


----------



## anynameyouwish

Stratford57 said:


> Soros and Obama’s administration have also tuned Ukraine into a cozy place for breeding, training and recruiting of Neo-Nazis. FBI agents and several Congressmen have been trying to attract the people attention but...American  Media has been sooooo silent about that.
> 
> 1. Criminal Complaint of special FBI agent Scott Bierwirth
> https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...laint/0f1e76cdeef814133f24/optimized/full.pdf
> 
> Page 9:
> In August 2018 RAM members had a trip in Ukraine and met with Olena Semenyaka the leader of a political party in Ukraine which was found out of a military regiment  called Azov Battalion. *Azov Battalion is a paramilitary unit of Ukrainian National Guard which is known for its association with Neo-Nazi ideology and use of Nazi symbolism and which is believed to have participated in training and radicalizing United States-based white supremacy organizations.*
> 
> !!!! RAM is an extremist group headquartered in S. California.
> 
> Olena Semenyaka’s picture:
> View attachment 291322
> 
> 2. October 16, 2019 , *Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?*
> 
> “White supremacist violent extremism, one type of racially- and ethnically-motivated violent extremism, is one of the most potent forces driving domestic terrorism.” Rose’s letter names *Azov Battalion*, Nordic Resistance Movement, and National Action as three examples of foreign groups that have been *connected to recent terrorist attacks around the world as well as recruiting and influencing American citizens*.
> 
> The shooter in the Christchurch, New Zeeland, was also trained in Azov Battalion.
> Rose Leads Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?
> 
> 
> 3. KYIV, Ukraine—When Deputy Secretary of State George Kent spoke at the U.S. House of Representatives impeachment hearings this week, he painted a powerful picture of Ukrainian bravery in the face of Russian aggression.
> 
> But Kent most likely did not have in mind the most famous—and infamous—of those volunteer units, the Azov Battalion, which *40 members of Congress have asked the State Department to designate as a Foreign Terrorist Organization.* Some of its members are neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and avowed anti-Semites.
> Ukraine’s Anti-Russia Azov Battalion: ‘Minutemen’ or Neo-Nazi Terrorists?
> 
> 
> 4. Ex FBI agent Ali Soufan:
> 
> And what Syria did for jihadists, Ukraine is doing for white supremacists. “It’s had a galvanizing effect,” Blazakis said. “It’s given them, for lack of a better word, a playground in which there is turmoil and chaos, a kind of playground that doesn’t exist in a conventional sense in places like the United States.”
> 
> One of the most prominent destinations for these fighters is the *Azov Battalion, a pro-Ukrainian force that analysts say has embraced neo-Nazi views while targeting right-wing or white supremacist groups around the world for recruitment.*
> Ukraine's Civil War Is a 'Playground' for White Supremacists. What Could Go Wrong?
> 
> Pictures of Azov Battalion:
> 
> View attachment 291323
> 
> View attachment 291324
> 
> View attachment 291325
> 
> View attachment 291326
> 
> How come American journalists have not reported about such a Nazi nest in the middle of Europe? Russian journalists have been good about reporting this problem. All the facts above are from their Nov 22 news release:
> 
> www.1tv.ru/news/issue/2019-11-22/21:00#4




The russians are firmly entrenched in Venezuela.

Trump, pissing on the Monroe Doctrine, has allowed putin and russia to establish a base.

I don't see any media discussing THAT.


----------



## Deplorable Yankee

Stratford57 said:


> Soros and Obama’s administration have also tuned Ukraine into a cozy place for breeding, training and recruiting of Neo-Nazis. FBI agents and several Congressmen have been trying to attract the people attention but...American  Media has been sooooo silent about that.
> 
> 1. Criminal Complaint of special FBI agent Scott Bierwirth
> https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...laint/0f1e76cdeef814133f24/optimized/full.pdf
> 
> Page 9:
> In August 2018 RAM members had a trip in Ukraine and met with Olena Semenyaka the leader of a political party in Ukraine which was found out of a military regiment  called Azov Battalion. *Azov Battalion is a paramilitary unit of Ukrainian National Guard which is known for its association with Neo-Nazi ideology and use of Nazi symbolism and which is believed to have participated in training and radicalizing United States-based white supremacy organizations.*
> 
> !!!! RAM is an extremist group headquartered in S. California.
> 
> Olena Semenyaka’s picture:
> View attachment 291322
> 
> 2. October 16, 2019 , *Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?*
> 
> “White supremacist violent extremism, one type of racially- and ethnically-motivated violent extremism, is one of the most potent forces driving domestic terrorism.” Rose’s letter names *Azov Battalion*, Nordic Resistance Movement, and National Action as three examples of foreign groups that have been *connected to recent terrorist attacks around the world as well as recruiting and influencing American citizens*.
> 
> The shooter in the Christchurch, New Zeeland, was also trained in Azov Battalion.
> Rose Leads Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?
> 
> 
> 3. KYIV, Ukraine—When Deputy Secretary of State George Kent spoke at the U.S. House of Representatives impeachment hearings this week, he painted a powerful picture of Ukrainian bravery in the face of Russian aggression.
> 
> But Kent most likely did not have in mind the most famous—and infamous—of those volunteer units, the Azov Battalion, which *40 members of Congress have asked the State Department to designate as a Foreign Terrorist Organization.* Some of its members are neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and avowed anti-Semites.
> Ukraine’s Anti-Russia Azov Battalion: ‘Minutemen’ or Neo-Nazi Terrorists?
> 
> 
> 4. Ex FBI agent Ali Soufan:
> 
> And what Syria did for jihadists, Ukraine is doing for white supremacists. “It’s had a galvanizing effect,” Blazakis said. “It’s given them, for lack of a better word, a playground in which there is turmoil and chaos, a kind of playground that doesn’t exist in a conventional sense in places like the United States.”
> 
> One of the most prominent destinations for these fighters is the *Azov Battalion, a pro-Ukrainian force that analysts say has embraced neo-Nazi views while targeting right-wing or white supremacist groups around the world for recruitment.*
> Ukraine's Civil War Is a 'Playground' for White Supremacists. What Could Go Wrong?
> 
> Pictures of Azov Battalion:
> 
> View attachment 291323
> 
> View attachment 291324
> 
> View attachment 291325
> 
> View attachment 291326
> 
> How come American journalists have not reported about such a Nazi nest in the middle of Europe? Russian journalists have been good about reporting this problem. All the facts above are from their Nov 22 news release:
> 
> www.1tv.ru/news/issue/2019-11-22/21:00#4



No one cares fuck nuts
Go stop slavery in africa or something...its still going on


----------



## Stratford57

Deplorable Yankee said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Soros and Obama’s administration have also tuned Ukraine into a cozy place for breeding, training and recruiting of Neo-Nazis. FBI agents and several Congressmen have been trying to attract the people attention but...American  Media has been sooooo silent about that.
> 
> 1. Criminal Complaint of special FBI agent Scott Bierwirth
> https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...laint/0f1e76cdeef814133f24/optimized/full.pdf
> 
> Page 9:
> In August 2018 RAM members had a trip in Ukraine and met with Olena Semenyaka the leader of a political party in Ukraine which was found out of a military regiment  called Azov Battalion. *Azov Battalion is a paramilitary unit of Ukrainian National Guard which is known for its association with Neo-Nazi ideology and use of Nazi symbolism and which is believed to have participated in training and radicalizing United States-based white supremacy organizations.*
> 
> !!!! RAM is an extremist group headquartered in S. California.
> 
> Olena Semenyaka’s picture:
> View attachment 291322
> 
> 2. October 16, 2019 , *Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?*
> 
> “White supremacist violent extremism, one type of racially- and ethnically-motivated violent extremism, is one of the most potent forces driving domestic terrorism.” Rose’s letter names *Azov Battalion*, Nordic Resistance Movement, and National Action as three examples of foreign groups that have been *connected to recent terrorist attacks around the world as well as recruiting and influencing American citizens*.
> 
> The shooter in the Christchurch, New Zeeland, was also trained in Azov Battalion.
> Rose Leads Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?
> 
> 
> 3. KYIV, Ukraine—When Deputy Secretary of State George Kent spoke at the U.S. House of Representatives impeachment hearings this week, he painted a powerful picture of Ukrainian bravery in the face of Russian aggression.
> 
> But Kent most likely did not have in mind the most famous—and infamous—of those volunteer units, the Azov Battalion, which *40 members of Congress have asked the State Department to designate as a Foreign Terrorist Organization.* Some of its members are neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and avowed anti-Semites.
> Ukraine’s Anti-Russia Azov Battalion: ‘Minutemen’ or Neo-Nazi Terrorists?
> 
> 
> 4. Ex FBI agent Ali Soufan:
> 
> And what Syria did for jihadists, Ukraine is doing for white supremacists. “It’s had a galvanizing effect,” Blazakis said. “It’s given them, for lack of a better word, a playground in which there is turmoil and chaos, a kind of playground that doesn’t exist in a conventional sense in places like the United States.”
> 
> One of the most prominent destinations for these fighters is the *Azov Battalion, a pro-Ukrainian force that analysts say has embraced neo-Nazi views while targeting right-wing or white supremacist groups around the world for recruitment.*
> Ukraine's Civil War Is a 'Playground' for White Supremacists. What Could Go Wrong?
> 
> Pictures of Azov Battalion:
> 
> View attachment 291323
> 
> View attachment 291324
> 
> View attachment 291325
> 
> View attachment 291326
> 
> How come American journalists have not reported about such a Nazi nest in the middle of Europe? Russian journalists have been good about reporting this problem. All the facts above are from their Nov 22 news release:
> 
> www.1tv.ru/news/issue/2019-11-22/21:00#4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one cares fuck nuts
> Go stop slavery in africa or something...its still going on
Click to expand...

I don't know what's happening in Africa but Ukraine is my home country screwed up by Americans (Soros+ Obama's administration).


----------



## anynameyouwish

Stratford57 said:


> Deplorable Yankee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Soros and Obama’s administration have also tuned Ukraine into a cozy place for breeding, training and recruiting of Neo-Nazis. FBI agents and several Congressmen have been trying to attract the people attention but...American  Media has been sooooo silent about that.
> 
> 1. Criminal Complaint of special FBI agent Scott Bierwirth
> https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...laint/0f1e76cdeef814133f24/optimized/full.pdf
> 
> Page 9:
> In August 2018 RAM members had a trip in Ukraine and met with Olena Semenyaka the leader of a political party in Ukraine which was found out of a military regiment  called Azov Battalion. *Azov Battalion is a paramilitary unit of Ukrainian National Guard which is known for its association with Neo-Nazi ideology and use of Nazi symbolism and which is believed to have participated in training and radicalizing United States-based white supremacy organizations.*
> 
> !!!! RAM is an extremist group headquartered in S. California.
> 
> Olena Semenyaka’s picture:
> View attachment 291322
> 
> 2. October 16, 2019 , *Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?*
> 
> “White supremacist violent extremism, one type of racially- and ethnically-motivated violent extremism, is one of the most potent forces driving domestic terrorism.” Rose’s letter names *Azov Battalion*, Nordic Resistance Movement, and National Action as three examples of foreign groups that have been *connected to recent terrorist attacks around the world as well as recruiting and influencing American citizens*.
> 
> The shooter in the Christchurch, New Zeeland, was also trained in Azov Battalion.
> Rose Leads Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?
> 
> 
> 3. KYIV, Ukraine—When Deputy Secretary of State George Kent spoke at the U.S. House of Representatives impeachment hearings this week, he painted a powerful picture of Ukrainian bravery in the face of Russian aggression.
> 
> But Kent most likely did not have in mind the most famous—and infamous—of those volunteer units, the Azov Battalion, which *40 members of Congress have asked the State Department to designate as a Foreign Terrorist Organization.* Some of its members are neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and avowed anti-Semites.
> Ukraine’s Anti-Russia Azov Battalion: ‘Minutemen’ or Neo-Nazi Terrorists?
> 
> 
> 4. Ex FBI agent Ali Soufan:
> 
> And what Syria did for jihadists, Ukraine is doing for white supremacists. “It’s had a galvanizing effect,” Blazakis said. “It’s given them, for lack of a better word, a playground in which there is turmoil and chaos, a kind of playground that doesn’t exist in a conventional sense in places like the United States.”
> 
> One of the most prominent destinations for these fighters is the *Azov Battalion, a pro-Ukrainian force that analysts say has embraced neo-Nazi views while targeting right-wing or white supremacist groups around the world for recruitment.*
> Ukraine's Civil War Is a 'Playground' for White Supremacists. What Could Go Wrong?
> 
> Pictures of Azov Battalion:
> 
> View attachment 291323
> 
> View attachment 291324
> 
> View attachment 291325
> 
> View attachment 291326
> 
> How come American journalists have not reported about such a Nazi nest in the middle of Europe? Russian journalists have been good about reporting this problem. All the facts above are from their Nov 22 news release:
> 
> www.1tv.ru/news/issue/2019-11-22/21:00#4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one cares fuck nuts
> Go stop slavery in africa or something...its still going on
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know what's happening in Africa but Ukraine is my home country screwed up by Americans (Soros+ Obama's administration).
Click to expand...



so you love putin and how he is fuking with your country and just taking what he wants?


----------



## Deplorable Yankee

Stratford57 said:


> Deplorable Yankee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Soros and Obama’s administration have also tuned Ukraine into a cozy place for breeding, training and recruiting of Neo-Nazis. FBI agents and several Congressmen have been trying to attract the people attention but...American  Media has been sooooo silent about that.
> 
> 1. Criminal Complaint of special FBI agent Scott Bierwirth
> https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...laint/0f1e76cdeef814133f24/optimized/full.pdf
> 
> Page 9:
> In August 2018 RAM members had a trip in Ukraine and met with Olena Semenyaka the leader of a political party in Ukraine which was found out of a military regiment  called Azov Battalion. *Azov Battalion is a paramilitary unit of Ukrainian National Guard which is known for its association with Neo-Nazi ideology and use of Nazi symbolism and which is believed to have participated in training and radicalizing United States-based white supremacy organizations.*
> 
> !!!! RAM is an extremist group headquartered in S. California.
> 
> Olena Semenyaka’s picture:
> View attachment 291322
> 
> 2. October 16, 2019 , *Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?*
> 
> “White supremacist violent extremism, one type of racially- and ethnically-motivated violent extremism, is one of the most potent forces driving domestic terrorism.” Rose’s letter names *Azov Battalion*, Nordic Resistance Movement, and National Action as three examples of foreign groups that have been *connected to recent terrorist attacks around the world as well as recruiting and influencing American citizens*.
> 
> The shooter in the Christchurch, New Zeeland, was also trained in Azov Battalion.
> Rose Leads Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?
> 
> 
> 3. KYIV, Ukraine—When Deputy Secretary of State George Kent spoke at the U.S. House of Representatives impeachment hearings this week, he painted a powerful picture of Ukrainian bravery in the face of Russian aggression.
> 
> But Kent most likely did not have in mind the most famous—and infamous—of those volunteer units, the Azov Battalion, which *40 members of Congress have asked the State Department to designate as a Foreign Terrorist Organization.* Some of its members are neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and avowed anti-Semites.
> Ukraine’s Anti-Russia Azov Battalion: ‘Minutemen’ or Neo-Nazi Terrorists?
> 
> 
> 4. Ex FBI agent Ali Soufan:
> 
> And what Syria did for jihadists, Ukraine is doing for white supremacists. “It’s had a galvanizing effect,” Blazakis said. “It’s given them, for lack of a better word, a playground in which there is turmoil and chaos, a kind of playground that doesn’t exist in a conventional sense in places like the United States.”
> 
> One of the most prominent destinations for these fighters is the *Azov Battalion, a pro-Ukrainian force that analysts say has embraced neo-Nazi views while targeting right-wing or white supremacist groups around the world for recruitment.*
> Ukraine's Civil War Is a 'Playground' for White Supremacists. What Could Go Wrong?
> 
> Pictures of Azov Battalion:
> 
> View attachment 291323
> 
> View attachment 291324
> 
> View attachment 291325
> 
> View attachment 291326
> 
> How come American journalists have not reported about such a Nazi nest in the middle of Europe? Russian journalists have been good about reporting this problem. All the facts above are from their Nov 22 news release:
> 
> www.1tv.ru/news/issue/2019-11-22/21:00#4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one cares fuck nuts
> Go stop slavery in africa or something...its still going on
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know what's happening in Africa but Ukraine is my home country screwed up by Americans (Soros+ Obama's administration).
Click to expand...



Oh so now your bitching about my government

Americans first .....back of the line fuzzy lil foreign  fuck nuts




 q


----------



## Stratford57

Deplorable Yankee said:


> Oh so now your bitching about my government
> 
> Americans first .....back of the line fuzzy lil foreign  fuck nuts
> 
> View attachment 295721 q


If your government did not overthrow my government I wouldn't be bitching like you said.

Your liberals have been whining (_bitching,_ using your style of language) about alleged "Russian interference" for several years,  meanwhile your government is not shy to interfere in any country in the world.

"Don't blame a mirror if your face is ugly," - a Russian saying.


----------



## Deplorable Yankee

Stratford57 said:


> Deplorable Yankee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh so now your bitching about my government
> 
> Americans first .....back of the line fuzzy lil foreign  fuck nuts
> 
> View attachment 295721 q
> 
> 
> 
> if your government did not overthrow my government i wouldn't be bitching like you said.
> 
> Your liberals have been whining about alleged "Russian interference"for several years while your government is not shy to interfere in any country in the world.
> 
> "Don't blame a mirror if your face is ugly," - a Russian saying.
Click to expand...

The left is anything but liberal 

I believe your beef is with thier magic negro

And you Should of never gave up your nukes 30 years ago spineless slavic slope head


----------



## Stratford57

Deplorable Yankee said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deplorable Yankee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh so now your bitching about my government
> 
> Americans first .....back of the line fuzzy lil foreign  fuck nuts
> 
> View attachment 295721 q
> 
> 
> 
> if your government did not overthrow my government i wouldn't be bitching like you said.
> 
> Your liberals have been whining about alleged "Russian interference"for several years while your government is not shy to interfere in any country in the world.
> 
> "Don't blame a mirror if your face is ugly," - a Russian saying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The left is anything but liberal
> 
> I believe your beef is with thier magic negro
> 
> And you Should of never gave up your nukes 30 years ago spineless slavic slope head
Click to expand...

That ^ has NOTHING to do with what I just said.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Deplorable Yankee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh so now your bitching about my government
> 
> Americans first .....back of the line fuzzy lil foreign  fuck nuts
> 
> View attachment 295721 q
> 
> 
> 
> If your government did not overthrow my government I wouldn't be bitching like you said.
> 
> Your liberals have been whining (_bitching,_ using your style of language) about alleged "Russian interference" for several years,  meanwhile your government is not shy to interfere in any country in the world.
> 
> "Don't blame a mirror if your face is ugly," - a Russian saying.
Click to expand...


*If your government did not overthrow my government I wouldn't be bitching like you said.*

Don't you hate it when your Putin stooge flees to Russia instead of facing justice?


----------



## Deplorable Yankee

Stratford57 said:


> Deplorable Yankee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deplorable Yankee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh so now your bitching about my government
> 
> Americans first .....back of the line fuzzy lil foreign  fuck nuts
> 
> View attachment 295721 q
> 
> 
> 
> if your government did not overthrow my government i wouldn't be bitching like you said.
> 
> Your liberals have been whining about alleged "Russian interference"for several years while your government is not shy to interfere in any country in the world.
> 
> "Don't blame a mirror if your face is ugly," - a Russian saying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The left is anything but liberal
> 
> I believe your beef is with thier magic negro
> 
> And you Should of never gave up your nukes 30 years ago spineless slavic slope head
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That ^ has NOTHING to do with what I just said.
Click to expand...



Actually if ya had nukes putin wouldn't have been able to make you his bitcH...no matter what shenanigans the american government an our retarded intelligence agencies are up to 


I


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deplorable Yankee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh so now your bitching about my government
> 
> Americans first .....back of the line fuzzy lil foreign  fuck nuts
> 
> View attachment 295721 q
> 
> 
> 
> If your government did not overthrow my government I wouldn't be bitching like you said.
> 
> Your liberals have been whining (_bitching,_ using your style of language) about alleged "Russian interference" for several years,  meanwhile your government is not shy to interfere in any country in the world.
> 
> "Don't blame a mirror if your face is ugly," - a Russian saying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *If your government did not overthrow my government I wouldn't be bitching like you said.*
> 
> Don't you hate it when your Putin stooge flees to Russia instead of facing justice?
Click to expand...

Putin can't _flee_ to Russia, he actually _lives_ in Russia. You didn't know that?

BTW, you are making fun of liberals here but what makes you better than them? They hate Russia and you hate Russia while your president Trump has been constantly saying: he WANTS to deal with Russia and Putin. That's one of the reasons  Dems have been sticking his wheels so much: they are panically afraid to lose "Russia is an aggressor", "Russia is a monster", to lose huge military budgets and their cozy seats. 

If you keep spreading Soros propaganda about Russia you only keep harming your president and keep helping his enemies and the real enemies of your country: Democrats.


----------



## Stratford57

Deplorable Yankee said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deplorable Yankee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deplorable Yankee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh so now your bitching about my government
> 
> Americans first .....back of the line fuzzy lil foreign  fuck nuts
> 
> View attachment 295721 q
> 
> 
> 
> if your government did not overthrow my government i wouldn't be bitching like you said.
> 
> Your liberals have been whining about alleged "Russian interference"for several years while your government is not shy to interfere in any country in the world.
> 
> "Don't blame a mirror if your face is ugly," - a Russian saying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The left is anything but liberal
> 
> I believe your beef is with thier magic negro
> 
> And you Should of never gave up your nukes 30 years ago spineless slavic slope head
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That ^ has NOTHING to do with what I just said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Actually if ya had nukes putin wouldn't have been able to make you his bitcH...no matter what shenanigans the american government an our retarded intelligence agencies are up to
> 
> 
> I
Click to expand...

Putin has NOTHING to do with the conflict in Ukraine. If he did his army would have been in the capital of Ukraine in a week or less. Everything you think you know about Ukraine is lies. I live in Ukraine and have NEVER seen even one Russian soldier. Meanwhile Western press keeps telling Western audience that "Putin occupied Ukraine." What a nonsense. Actually, I wish he did, we could have an opportunity to live a normal life just like Russians have.

TheGuardian:
The poisoned former spy Sergei Skripal was initially reluctant to believe the Russian government had tried to kill him, according to a new book, and despite selling secrets to MI6 was an “unashamed Russian nationalist”.

Skripal, a former paratrooper, *supported Putin’s 2014* annexation of Crimea and *referred disparagingly to Ukrainians as “simply sheep who needed a good shepherd”*. Skripal also *refused to believe Russian troops had entered eastern Ukraine covertly, saying that if they had, they would have quickly reached the capital, Kiev.*

Sergei Skripal initially did not believe Russia tried to kill him – book


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deplorable Yankee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh so now your bitching about my government
> 
> Americans first .....back of the line fuzzy lil foreign  fuck nuts
> 
> View attachment 295721 q
> 
> 
> 
> If your government did not overthrow my government I wouldn't be bitching like you said.
> 
> Your liberals have been whining (_bitching,_ using your style of language) about alleged "Russian interference" for several years,  meanwhile your government is not shy to interfere in any country in the world.
> 
> "Don't blame a mirror if your face is ugly," - a Russian saying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *If your government did not overthrow my government I wouldn't be bitching like you said.*
> 
> Don't you hate it when your Putin stooge flees to Russia instead of facing justice?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin can't _flee_ to Russia, he actually _lives_ in Russia. You didn't know that?
> 
> BTW, you are making fun of liberals here but what makes you better than them? They hate Russia and you hate Russia while your president Trump has been constantly saying: he WANTS to deal with Russia and Putin. That's one of the reasons  Dems have been sticking his wheels so much: they are panically afraid to lose "Russia is an aggressor", "Russia is a monster", to lose huge military budgets and their cozy seats.
> 
> If you keep spreading Soros propaganda about Russia you only keep harming your president and keep helping his enemies and the real enemies of your country: Democrats.
Click to expand...


*Putin can't flee to Russia, he actually lives in Russia. You didn't know that?*

_Don't you hate it when your Putin stooge flees to Russia instead of facing justice?_

Your Putin stooge was Viktor Yanukovych. You didn't know that?

*If you keep spreading Soros propaganda about Russia *

Putin sucks, whether Soros says so or not.

*you only keep harming your president and keep helping his enemies and the real enemies of your country: Democrats.*

Nah, Putin and the Dems both suck, and I'm not afraid to say so.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Deplorable Yankee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deplorable Yankee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deplorable Yankee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh so now your bitching about my government
> 
> Americans first .....back of the line fuzzy lil foreign  fuck nuts
> 
> View attachment 295721 q
> 
> 
> 
> if your government did not overthrow my government i wouldn't be bitching like you said.
> 
> Your liberals have been whining about alleged "Russian interference"for several years while your government is not shy to interfere in any country in the world.
> 
> "Don't blame a mirror if your face is ugly," - a Russian saying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The left is anything but liberal
> 
> I believe your beef is with thier magic negro
> 
> And you Should of never gave up your nukes 30 years ago spineless slavic slope head
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That ^ has NOTHING to do with what I just said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Actually if ya had nukes putin wouldn't have been able to make you his bitcH...no matter what shenanigans the american government an our retarded intelligence agencies are up to
> 
> 
> I
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin has NOTHING to do with the conflict in Ukraine. If he did his army would have been in the capital of Ukraine in a week or less. Everything you think you know about Ukraine is lies. I live in Ukraine and have NEVER seen even one Russian soldier. Meanwhile Western press keeps telling Western audience that "Putin occupied Ukraine." What a nonsense. Actually, I wish he did, we could have an opportunity to live a normal life just like Russians have.
> 
> TheGuardian:
> The poisoned former spy Sergei Skripal was initially reluctant to believe the Russian government had tried to kill him, according to a new book, and despite selling secrets to MI6 was an “unashamed Russian nationalist”.
> 
> Skripal, a former paratrooper, *supported Putin’s 2014* annexation of Crimea and *referred disparagingly to Ukrainians as “simply sheep who needed a good shepherd”*. Skripal also *refused to believe Russian troops had entered eastern Ukraine covertly, saying that if they had, they would have quickly reached the capital, Kiev.*
> 
> Sergei Skripal initially did not believe Russia tried to kill him – book
Click to expand...


*Putin has NOTHING to do with the conflict in Ukraine.*

Just like he had nothing to do with Crimea? What happened there again?
Was it Russian soldiers on vacation in Crimea?


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Stratford57 said:


> occupied said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck Russia and that faggot Putin as well. See that comrade? I get to live in a country where I can call your boss a pole smoker and I don't get killed.
> 
> 
> 
> The thread is about  training Nazis and terrorists in Ukraine, do you have anything to contribute to it besides your hate to Russia?
Click to expand...


I'm not to fond of Russians or Ukrainians.

But, Ukraine is not a military threat to much of the World.

Besides Nazis got more right than Soviets.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

JGalt said:


> Actually it's the other way around. Neo-Nazis and far right wing nationalists are rising in *defiance* of policies by those like Obama, Soros, socialism, and globalism. Given the state of the world where countries are being over-run by immigrants, criminals, radicalized Islamics, and terrorists, I can hardly say that I blame them for wanting to protect the integrity and autonomy of their country.
> 
> Until they they start trying to annex neighboring countries and blaming the Jews, I have no problem with them. After all, it's not those Neo-Nazis who consider the Jews their primary enemy, it's the radical Islamics and globalists who are invading their country, who seek the extermination of the Jews. That's pretty much common knowledge and like they say, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."



The Globalists are Kosher, rather than Islamic.

Neo-Nazis are more with it than Republicans.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Stratford57 said:


> Deplorable Yankee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Soros and Obama’s administration have also tuned Ukraine into a cozy place for breeding, training and recruiting of Neo-Nazis. FBI agents and several Congressmen have been trying to attract the people attention but...American  Media has been sooooo silent about that.
> 
> 1. Criminal Complaint of special FBI agent Scott Bierwirth
> https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...laint/0f1e76cdeef814133f24/optimized/full.pdf
> 
> Page 9:
> In August 2018 RAM members had a trip in Ukraine and met with Olena Semenyaka the leader of a political party in Ukraine which was found out of a military regiment  called Azov Battalion. *Azov Battalion is a paramilitary unit of Ukrainian National Guard which is known for its association with Neo-Nazi ideology and use of Nazi symbolism and which is believed to have participated in training and radicalizing United States-based white supremacy organizations.*
> 
> !!!! RAM is an extremist group headquartered in S. California.
> 
> Olena Semenyaka’s picture:
> View attachment 291322
> 
> 2. October 16, 2019 , *Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?*
> 
> “White supremacist violent extremism, one type of racially- and ethnically-motivated violent extremism, is one of the most potent forces driving domestic terrorism.” Rose’s letter names *Azov Battalion*, Nordic Resistance Movement, and National Action as three examples of foreign groups that have been *connected to recent terrorist attacks around the world as well as recruiting and influencing American citizens*.
> 
> The shooter in the Christchurch, New Zeeland, was also trained in Azov Battalion.
> Rose Leads Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?
> 
> 
> 3. KYIV, Ukraine—When Deputy Secretary of State George Kent spoke at the U.S. House of Representatives impeachment hearings this week, he painted a powerful picture of Ukrainian bravery in the face of Russian aggression.
> 
> But Kent most likely did not have in mind the most famous—and infamous—of those volunteer units, the Azov Battalion, which *40 members of Congress have asked the State Department to designate as a Foreign Terrorist Organization.* Some of its members are neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and avowed anti-Semites.
> Ukraine’s Anti-Russia Azov Battalion: ‘Minutemen’ or Neo-Nazi Terrorists?
> 
> 
> 4. Ex FBI agent Ali Soufan:
> 
> And what Syria did for jihadists, Ukraine is doing for white supremacists. “It’s had a galvanizing effect,” Blazakis said. “It’s given them, for lack of a better word, a playground in which there is turmoil and chaos, a kind of playground that doesn’t exist in a conventional sense in places like the United States.”
> 
> One of the most prominent destinations for these fighters is the *Azov Battalion, a pro-Ukrainian force that analysts say has embraced neo-Nazi views while targeting right-wing or white supremacist groups around the world for recruitment.*
> Ukraine's Civil War Is a 'Playground' for White Supremacists. What Could Go Wrong?
> 
> Pictures of Azov Battalion:
> 
> View attachment 291323
> 
> View attachment 291324
> 
> View attachment 291325
> 
> View attachment 291326
> 
> How come American journalists have not reported about such a Nazi nest in the middle of Europe? Russian journalists have been good about reporting this problem. All the facts above are from their Nov 22 news release:
> 
> www.1tv.ru/news/issue/2019-11-22/21:00#4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one cares fuck nuts
> Go stop slavery in africa or something...its still going on
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know what's happening in Africa but Ukraine is my home country screwed up by Americans (Soros+ Obama's administration).
Click to expand...


Ukraine is largely messed up by pro- Soviet Russians.


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *Putin has NOTHING to do with the conflict in Ukraine.*
> 
> Just like he had nothing to do with Crimea? What happened there again?
> Was it Russian soldiers on vacation in Crimea?


First of all, let's separate  flies from cutlets: too much BS mixed up with some truth.

1. The conflict in Ukraine is in Donbass, not in Crimea. Crimea is happy to return back home, to Russia. Go to Crimea and ask the people there, may be after that you'll figure out something.

2.  American Conservative,
*If Ukraine had a right to break free of Russia in 1991, why do not Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk have the right to break free of Kiev?*
Why is Ukraine's Kerch Crisis Any of Our Business? | The American Conservative

3.The American Conservative,
Was it U.S. complicity in the Kiev coup that ousted the elected pro-Russian regime that caused Putin to seize Crimea to hold onto Russia’s Black Sea naval base at Sevastopol?

*Many Putin actions we condemn were reactions to what we did.*

*Russia annexed Crimea bloodlessly*. But did not the *U.S. bomb Serbia for 78 days* to force Belgrade to surrender her cradle province of Kosovo?

How was that more moral than what Putin did in Crimea?
Trump Calls Off Cold War II | The American Conservative

4. Russian soldiers were located in Crimea according to the agreement *singed by both countries.*

*The "Agreement between the Russian Federation and Ukraine o*n the Parameters of the Division of the Black Sea Fleet", the "Agreement between the Russian Federation and Ukraine on the Status and Conditions of the Presence of the Russian Federation Black Sea Fleet on the territory of Ukraine" and "Agreement between the Government of the Russian Federation and the Government of Ukraine on Payments Associated with the Division of the Black Sea Fleet and Its Presence on the territory of Ukraine" were the three treaties[2] signed between Russia and Ukraine on 28 May 1997 whereby the two countries established two independent national fleets, divided armaments and bases between them.,[3][4] and set out conditions for basing of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in Crimea.
Partition Treaty on the Status and Conditions of the Black Sea Fleet - Wikipedia


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> _Don't you hate it when your Putin stooge flees to Russia instead of facing justice?_
> 
> Your Putin stooge was Viktor Yanukovych. You didn't know that?
> 
> *If you keep spreading Soros propaganda about Russia *
> 
> Putin sucks, whether Soros says so or not.
> 
> *you only keep harming your president and keep helping his enemies and the real enemies of your country: Democrats.*
> 
> Nah, Putin and the Dems both suck, and I'm not afraid to say so.



1. What justice and where Putin is supposed to face? He was in Paris last week meeting with Macron, Merkel, Zelensky. so what?

2. Yanukovich was a dully elected president, was he pro-Russian or no it was decided not in America but by those who live in Ukraine and want to be pro-Russia, the majority. I thought that's what was called democracy.
Obama Congratulates Ukraine’s Election Winner

3. Dimitri Simes (Dimitri K. Simes – Center for the National Interest)  :
For years Manafort worked as a political operator in Ukraine, providing pro-American tilt in Ukrainian foreign policy and according to American Media was a law-abiding person. But Manafort was discouraging Yanukovich from entering the EU, on the contrary, he suggested to be very very careful about that (making current Ukrainian rulers pretty mad).

*We are seeing more and more Ukrainian fingerprints in 2016 elections*. As you know Manaforts’ problems started when Ukrainian prosecutors found a document (without Manafort’s signature) with his “confession” about receiving millions of dollars for serving Yanukovich. It’s interesting that *Ukrainian prosecutors launched that process during elections so that Manafort had to leave Trump’s team*. And shortly after that the case has died down and Ukrainian prosecutors have NEVER charged Manafort. Many Republicans think Kiev just wanted to create problems for Manafort during elections time.

Mueller has been “investigating” Russian collusion. *Manafort never has been involved with any Russians, *but they subscribe him working for pro-Russian president Yanukovich. How come Yanukovich is called pro-Russian if all his advisers were Americans?

4. Ukrainian officials have interfered in US elections a lot more than alleged Russians: they were trashing Trump when he was a candidate, donated money to Clinton, framed Manafort (who worked in Ukraine) to harm Trump.

*The Clinton foundation is also linked directly to Ukrainian oligarchs:*
Between 2009 and 2013, including when Mrs. Clinton was secretary of state, the Clinton Foundation received at least $8.6 million from the Victor Pinchuk Foundation, according to that foundation, which is based in Kiev, Ukraine. It was created by Mr. Pinchuk, whose fortune stems from a pipe-making company. He served two terms as an elected member of the Ukrainian Parliament and is a proponent of closer ties between Ukraine and the European Union.
clintonfoundationinvestigation.com

The Hill:
It turns out the group that Ukrainian law enforcement was probing was co-funded by the Obama administration and liberal mega-donor George Soros. And it was collaborating with the FBI agents investigating then-Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort’s business activities in Ukraine.
US Embassy pressed Ukraine to drop probe of George Soros group during 2016 election

Jan 11, 2017, Politico:
Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office. They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, a Politico investigation found.
Ukrainian efforts to sabotage Trump backfire

5. As you can see Ukrainians have been interfering in US elections *for Democrats against Trump*. Ukraine has been your enemy for 5 years, not Russia, Russia has been always on Trump's side (without interference!). Obama's administration openly participated in the overthrowing of Ukrainian president, that what needs to be investigated and the crooks both in USA and Ukraine must be judged. *After that no Democrats will ever win any elections in USA for quite a while.*

Is Russia your main enemy? I don't think so.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Putin has NOTHING to do with the conflict in Ukraine.*
> 
> Just like he had nothing to do with Crimea? What happened there again?
> Was it Russian soldiers on vacation in Crimea?
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, let's separate  flies from cutlets: too much BS mixed up with some truth.
> 
> 1. The conflict in Ukraine is in Donbass, not in Crimea. Crimea is happy to return back home, to Russia. Go to Crimea and ask the people there, may be after that you'll figure out something.
> 
> 2.  American Conservative,
> *If Ukraine had a right to break free of Russia in 1991, why do not Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk have the right to break free of Kiev?*
> Why is Ukraine's Kerch Crisis Any of Our Business? | The American Conservative
> 
> 3.The American Conservative,
> Was it U.S. complicity in the Kiev coup that ousted the elected pro-Russian regime that caused Putin to seize Crimea to hold onto Russia’s Black Sea naval base at Sevastopol?
> 
> *Many Putin actions we condemn were reactions to what we did.*
> 
> *Russia annexed Crimea bloodlessly*. But did not the *U.S. bomb Serbia for 78 days* to force Belgrade to surrender her cradle province of Kosovo?
> 
> How was that more moral than what Putin did in Crimea?
> Trump Calls Off Cold War II | The American Conservative
> 
> 4. Russian soldiers were located in Crimea according to the agreement *singed by both countries.*
> 
> *The "Agreement between the Russian Federation and Ukraine o*n the Parameters of the Division of the Black Sea Fleet", the "Agreement between the Russian Federation and Ukraine on the Status and Conditions of the Presence of the Russian Federation Black Sea Fleet on the territory of Ukraine" and "Agreement between the Government of the Russian Federation and the Government of Ukraine on Payments Associated with the Division of the Black Sea Fleet and Its Presence on the territory of Ukraine" were the three treaties[2] signed between Russia and Ukraine on 28 May 1997 whereby the two countries established two independent national fleets, divided armaments and bases between them.,[3][4] and set out conditions for basing of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in Crimea.
> Partition Treaty on the Status and Conditions of the Black Sea Fleet - Wikipedia
Click to expand...


*The conflict in Ukraine is in Donbass*

Yeah, Putting should take his troops back home.

*Crimea is happy to return back home, to Russia.*

Especially considering all the vacationing Russian soldiers hanging around, eh?

*Many Putin actions we condemn were reactions to what we did.*

Do you condemn Putin bombing buildings in Moscow?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Don't you hate it when your Putin stooge flees to Russia instead of facing justice?_
> 
> Your Putin stooge was Viktor Yanukovych. You didn't know that?
> 
> *If you keep spreading Soros propaganda about Russia *
> 
> Putin sucks, whether Soros says so or not.
> 
> *you only keep harming your president and keep helping his enemies and the real enemies of your country: Democrats.*
> 
> Nah, Putin and the Dems both suck, and I'm not afraid to say so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. What justice and where Putin is supposed to face? He was in Paris last week meeting with Macron, Merkel, Zelensky. so what?
> 
> 2. Yanukovich was a dully elected president, was he pro-Russian or no it was decided not in America but by those who live in Ukraine and want to be pro-Russia, the majority. I thought that's what was called democracy.
> Obama Congratulates Ukraine’s Election Winner
> 
> 3. Dimitri Simes (Dimitri K. Simes – Center for the National Interest)  :
> For years Manafort worked as a political operator in Ukraine, providing pro-American tilt in Ukrainian foreign policy and according to American Media was a law-abiding person. But Manafort was discouraging Yanukovich from entering the EU, on the contrary, he suggested to be very very careful about that (making current Ukrainian rulers pretty mad).
> 
> *We are seeing more and more Ukrainian fingerprints in 2016 elections*. As you know Manaforts’ problems started when Ukrainian prosecutors found a document (without Manafort’s signature) with his “confession” about receiving millions of dollars for serving Yanukovich. It’s interesting that *Ukrainian prosecutors launched that process during elections so that Manafort had to leave Trump’s team*. And shortly after that the case has died down and Ukrainian prosecutors have NEVER charged Manafort. Many Republicans think Kiev just wanted to create problems for Manafort during elections time.
> 
> Mueller has been “investigating” Russian collusion. *Manafort never has been involved with any Russians, *but they subscribe him working for pro-Russian president Yanukovich. How come Yanukovich is called pro-Russian if all his advisers were Americans?
> 
> 4. Ukrainian officials have interfered in US elections a lot more than alleged Russians: they were trashing Trump when he was a candidate, donated money to Clinton, framed Manafort (who worked in Ukraine) to harm Trump.
> 
> *The Clinton foundation is also linked directly to Ukrainian oligarchs:*
> Between 2009 and 2013, including when Mrs. Clinton was secretary of state, the Clinton Foundation received at least $8.6 million from the Victor Pinchuk Foundation, according to that foundation, which is based in Kiev, Ukraine. It was created by Mr. Pinchuk, whose fortune stems from a pipe-making company. He served two terms as an elected member of the Ukrainian Parliament and is a proponent of closer ties between Ukraine and the European Union.
> clintonfoundationinvestigation.com
> 
> The Hill:
> It turns out the group that Ukrainian law enforcement was probing was co-funded by the Obama administration and liberal mega-donor George Soros. And it was collaborating with the FBI agents investigating then-Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort’s business activities in Ukraine.
> US Embassy pressed Ukraine to drop probe of George Soros group during 2016 election
> 
> Jan 11, 2017, Politico:
> Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office. They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, a Politico investigation found.
> Ukrainian efforts to sabotage Trump backfire
> 
> 5. As you can see Ukrainians have been interfering in US elections *for Democrats against Trump*. Ukraine has been your enemy for 5 years, not Russia, Russia has been always on Trump's side (without interference!). Obama's administration openly participated in the overthrowing of Ukrainian president, that what needs to be investigated and the crooks both in USA and Ukraine must be judged. *After that no Democrats will ever win any elections in USA for quite a while.*
> 
> Is Russia your main enemy? I don't think so.
Click to expand...


*What justice and where Putin is supposed to face?*

Viktor Yanukovych. Fucktard.

*was he pro-Russian or no it was decided not in America but by those who live in Ukraine *

They decided, kicked his ass out.


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Yeah, Putting should take his troops back home.
> *Crimea is happy to return back home, to Russia.*
> 
> Especially considering all the vacationing Russian soldiers hanging around, eh?


To take his troops back home Putin needs first to bring them to Ukraine.

*WaPo:*

Italy's Interior Minister and deputy Prime Minister Matteo Salvini :

Q. What did you think of the recent meeting between Presidents Trump and Putin?

A. It was a very positive sign — a rapprochement between the U.S. and Russia is good news for Italy and for Europe.

Q. Why do you want to lift the sanctions on Russia?

A. Because they didn’t prove to be useful, and according to the data, they hurt Italian exports.

Q. You said that *Russia had a right to annex Crimea?*

A. There was a referendum.

Q. It was a fake referendum.

A. [That is your] point of view. . . . There was a referendum, and 90 percent of the people voted for the return of Crimea to the Russian Federation.

Q. What kind of referendum was it with Russian soldiers there?

A. Compare it to the *fake revolution in Ukraine, which was a pseudo-revolution funded by foreign powers* — similar to the Arab Spring revolutions. There are some historically Russian zones with Russian culture and traditions which legitimately belong to the Russian Federation.

*https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/italy-has-done-a-lot--maybe-too-much/2018/07/19/dc81a292-8acf-11e8-8aea-86e88ae760d8_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.411339e69a98*


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> They decided, kicked his ass out.


Who THEY?Obama's administration, Soros and a few hundred of thousands crowd in Kiev. But by that time Ukraine was a 40 million country. And basically, several thousands decided the fate of millions in Ukraine with the help of your enemies Obama's administration.

^ That is what you support. And that's what keeps harming your own president. It's time to realize it and to start playing in a right team for president, not in a wrong team against him, Toddster


----------



## Bleipriester

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> They decided, kicked his ass out.
> 
> 
> 
> Who THEY?Obama's administration, Soros and a few hundred of thousands crowd in Kiev. But by that time Ukraine was a 40 million country. And basically, several thousands decided the fate of millions in Ukraine with the help of your enemies Obama's administration.
> 
> ^ That is what you support. And that's what keeps harming your own president. It's time to realize it and to start playing in a right team for president, not in a wrong team against him, Toddster
Click to expand...

You should realize that Trump appropriated Obama´s policy and even names Ukraine as an example for his policy of sovereign countries.


----------



## Deplorable Yankee

The whole world 


Stratford57 said:


> Deplorable Yankee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deplorable Yankee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deplorable Yankee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh so now your bitching about my government
> 
> Americans first .....back of the line fuzzy lil foreign  fuck nuts
> 
> View attachment 295721 q
> 
> 
> 
> if your government did not overthrow my government i wouldn't be bitching like you said.
> 
> Your liberals have been whining about alleged "Russian interference"for several years while your government is not shy to interfere in any country in the world.
> 
> "Don't blame a mirror if your face is ugly," - a Russian saying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The left is anything but liberal
> 
> I believe your beef is with thier magic negro
> 
> And you Should of never gave up your nukes 30 years ago spineless slavic slope head
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That ^ has NOTHING to do with what I just said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Actually if ya had nukes putin wouldn't have been able to make you his bitcH...no matter what shenanigans the american government an our retarded intelligence agencies are up to
> 
> 
> I
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin has NOTHING to do with the conflict in Ukraine. If he did his army would have been in the capital of Ukraine in a week or less. Everything you think you know about Ukraine is lies. I live in Ukraine and have NEVER seen even one Russian soldier. Meanwhile Western press keeps telling Western audience that "Putin occupied Ukraine." What a nonsense. Actually, I wish he did, we could have an opportunity to live a normal life just like Russians have.
> 
> TheGuardian:
> The poisoned former spy Sergei Skripal was initially reluctant to believe the Russian government had tried to kill him, according to a new book, and despite selling secrets to MI6 was an “unashamed Russian nationalist”.
> 
> Skripal, a former paratrooper, *supported Putin’s 2014* annexation of Crimea and *referred disparagingly to Ukrainians as “simply sheep who needed a good shepherd”*. Skripal also *refused to believe Russian troops had entered eastern Ukraine covertly, saying that if they had, they would have quickly reached the capital, Kiev.*
> 
> Sergei Skripal initially did not believe Russia tried to kill him – book
Click to expand...



Wot ....hold on 
Crimea is on the phone


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> They decided, kicked his ass out.
> 
> 
> 
> Who THEY?Obama's administration, Soros and a few hundred of thousands crowd in Kiev. But by that time Ukraine was a 40 million country. And basically, several thousands decided the fate of millions in Ukraine with the help of your enemies Obama's administration.
> 
> ^ That is what you support. And that's what keeps harming your own president. It's time to realize it and to start playing in a right team for president, not in a wrong team against him, Toddster
Click to expand...


*Who THEY?*

The Ukrainian people.

*It's time to realize it and to start playing in a right team for president, not in a wrong team against him*

Go Trump, fuck Putin.


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> They decided, kicked his ass out.
> 
> 
> 
> Who THEY?Obama's administration, Soros and a few hundred of thousands crowd in Kiev. But by that time Ukraine was a 40 million country. And basically, several thousands decided the fate of millions in Ukraine with the help of your enemies Obama's administration.
> 
> ^ That is what you support. And that's what keeps harming your own president. It's time to realize it and to start playing in a right team for president, not in a wrong team against him, Toddster
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Who THEY?*
> 
> The Ukrainian people.
> 
> *It's time to realize it and to start playing in a right team for president, not in a wrong team against him*
> 
> Go Trump, fuck Putin.
Click to expand...

Can you put aside your "fuck Putin" for a while and realize that the same people who overthrew our dully elected president Yanukovich have been trying to overthrow your dully elected president Trump: Deep State (Soros for sure) and Democrats.

And they have been using the same methods for that: brainwashing everybody who believes their fake news (both in USA and Ukraine).

And we see how many lies they have been spreading about Trump. What makes you think everything bad they've been telling you about Putin is truth? It's all lies.






Ukraine has been harming Trump since 2016 and at the same time has been taking all kinds of "assistance" at your taxpayers' expense. Russia has been on Trump's side without begging any money from you.

The president you support (Mr. Trump) wants a partnership with Russia.

What makes YOU  stay on the side with your enemies, Democrats?


----------



## Stratford57

Bleipriester said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> They decided, kicked his ass out.
> 
> 
> 
> Who THEY?Obama's administration, Soros and a few hundred of thousands crowd in Kiev. But by that time Ukraine was a 40 million country. And basically, several thousands decided the fate of millions in Ukraine with the help of your enemies Obama's administration.
> 
> ^ That is what you support. And that's what keeps harming your own president. It's time to realize it and to start playing in a right team for president, not in a wrong team against him, Toddster
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should realize that Trump appropriated Obama´s policy and even names Ukraine as an example for his policy of sovereign countries.
Click to expand...

Obama was obviously protecting and serving Deep State, not American people.

Trump has been scrambling to serve American people in spite of all Deep State's attempts to slender him, to "investigate" him, to "impeach" him etc. Since Deep State has declared him their enemy, I support him. Because _Deep State is the enemy of the whole world_ . Everybody who stands in their way (like Trump and Putin) are playing on our side, the side of all mankind (even for those who are unable to differ sh*t from Shinola).

The Bible says:
“Every kingdom divided against itself will be laid waste, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. *26*If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can hiskingdom stand?

Matthew 12:26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand?


----------



## Bleipriester

Stratford57 said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> They decided, kicked his ass out.
> 
> 
> 
> Who THEY?Obama's administration, Soros and a few hundred of thousands crowd in Kiev. But by that time Ukraine was a 40 million country. And basically, several thousands decided the fate of millions in Ukraine with the help of your enemies Obama's administration.
> 
> ^ That is what you support. And that's what keeps harming your own president. It's time to realize it and to start playing in a right team for president, not in a wrong team against him, Toddster
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should realize that Trump appropriated Obama´s policy and even names Ukraine as an example for his policy of sovereign countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Obama was obviously protecting and serving Deep State, not American people.
> 
> Trump has been scrambling to serve American people in spite of all Deep State's attempts to slender him, to "investigate" him, to "impeach" him etc. Since Deep State has declared him their enemy, I support him. Because _Deep State is the enemy of the whole world_ . Everybody who stands in their way (like Trump and Putin) are playing on our side, the side of all mankind (even for those who are unable to differ sh*t from Shinola).
> 
> The Bible says:
> “Every kingdom divided against itself will be laid waste, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. *26*If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can hiskingdom stand?
> 
> Matthew 12:26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand?
Click to expand...

Phrump IS deep state. He girdles himself with all the deep state Boltons he can find. And he is worse than any other.

"President Donald Trump reportedly favored bombing Russian and Iranian targets in Syria, before Pentagon chief James Mattis talked the US leader out of it."
Trump wanted to bomb Russian & Iranian targets amid Syria strikes – report

I don´t think this news will take effect on you, however.


----------



## Stratford57

Bleipriester said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> They decided, kicked his ass out.
> 
> 
> 
> Who THEY?Obama's administration, Soros and a few hundred of thousands crowd in Kiev. But by that time Ukraine was a 40 million country. And basically, several thousands decided the fate of millions in Ukraine with the help of your enemies Obama's administration.
> 
> ^ That is what you support. And that's what keeps harming your own president. It's time to realize it and to start playing in a right team for president, not in a wrong team against him, Toddster
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should realize that Trump appropriated Obama´s policy and even names Ukraine as an example for his policy of sovereign countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Obama was obviously protecting and serving Deep State, not American people.
> 
> Trump has been scrambling to serve American people in spite of all Deep State's attempts to slender him, to "investigate" him, to "impeach" him etc. Since Deep State has declared him their enemy, I support him. Because _Deep State is the enemy of the whole world_ . Everybody who stands in their way (like Trump and Putin) are playing on our side, the side of all mankind (even for those who are unable to differ sh*t from Shinola).
> 
> The Bible says:
> “Every kingdom divided against itself will be laid waste, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. *26*If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can hiskingdom stand?
> 
> Matthew 12:26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Phrump IS deep state. He girdles himself with all the deep state Boltons he can find. And he is worse than any other.
> 
> "President Donald Trump reportedly favored bombing Russian and Iranian targets in Syria, before Pentagon chief James Mattis talked the US leader out of it."
> Trump wanted to bomb Russian & Iranian targets amid Syria strikes – report
> 
> I don´t think this news will take effect on you, however.
Click to expand...

It seems like a lot of people in his administration and advisers have been  Deep State representatives.


----------



## Bleipriester

Stratford57 said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> They decided, kicked his ass out.
> 
> 
> 
> Who THEY?Obama's administration, Soros and a few hundred of thousands crowd in Kiev. But by that time Ukraine was a 40 million country. And basically, several thousands decided the fate of millions in Ukraine with the help of your enemies Obama's administration.
> 
> ^ That is what you support. And that's what keeps harming your own president. It's time to realize it and to start playing in a right team for president, not in a wrong team against him, Toddster
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should realize that Trump appropriated Obama´s policy and even names Ukraine as an example for his policy of sovereign countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Obama was obviously protecting and serving Deep State, not American people.
> 
> Trump has been scrambling to serve American people in spite of all Deep State's attempts to slender him, to "investigate" him, to "impeach" him etc. Since Deep State has declared him their enemy, I support him. Because _Deep State is the enemy of the whole world_ . Everybody who stands in their way (like Trump and Putin) are playing on our side, the side of all mankind (even for those who are unable to differ sh*t from Shinola).
> 
> The Bible says:
> “Every kingdom divided against itself will be laid waste, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. *26*If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can hiskingdom stand?
> 
> Matthew 12:26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Phrump IS deep state. He girdles himself with all the deep state Boltons he can find. And he is worse than any other.
> 
> "President Donald Trump reportedly favored bombing Russian and Iranian targets in Syria, before Pentagon chief James Mattis talked the US leader out of it."
> Trump wanted to bomb Russian & Iranian targets amid Syria strikes – report
> 
> I don´t think this news will take effect on you, however.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It seems like a lot of people in his administration and advisers have been  Deep State representatives.
Click to expand...

Yes and guess who appointed them.

https://nypost.com/2019/09/12/trump-john-bolton-was-holding-me-back-on-cuba-venezuela/


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> They decided, kicked his ass out.
> 
> 
> 
> Who THEY?Obama's administration, Soros and a few hundred of thousands crowd in Kiev. But by that time Ukraine was a 40 million country. And basically, several thousands decided the fate of millions in Ukraine with the help of your enemies Obama's administration.
> 
> ^ That is what you support. And that's what keeps harming your own president. It's time to realize it and to start playing in a right team for president, not in a wrong team against him, Toddster
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Who THEY?*
> 
> The Ukrainian people.
> 
> *It's time to realize it and to start playing in a right team for president, not in a wrong team against him*
> 
> Go Trump, fuck Putin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you put aside your "fuck Putin" for a while and realize that the same people who overthrew our dully elected president Yanukovich have been trying to overthrow your dully elected president Trump: Deep State (Soros for sure) and Democrats.
> 
> And they have been using the same methods for that: brainwashing everybody who believes their fake news (both in USA and Ukraine).
> 
> And we see how many lies they have been spreading about Trump. What makes you think everything bad they've been telling you about Putin is truth? It's all lies.
> 
> View attachment 295766
> 
> Ukraine has been harming Trump since 2016 and at the same time has been taking all kinds of "assistance" at your taxpayers' expense. Russia has been on Trump's side without begging any money from you.
> 
> The president you support (Mr. Trump) wants a partnership with Russia.
> 
> What makes YOU  stay on the side with your enemies, Democrats?
Click to expand...


*the same people who overthrew our dully elected president Yanukovich have been trying to overthrow your dully elected president Trump:*

I deny your claim.

*What makes you think everything bad they've been telling you about Putin is truth?*

Putin bombed buildings in Moscow. That was okay with you?

*What makes YOU  stay on the side with your enemies, Democrats?*

The Dems have been on Russia's side for 100 years. 
Funny that Hillary's loss made them realize Russia sucks.
Even if for the wrong reason.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> They decided, kicked his ass out.
> 
> 
> 
> Who THEY?Obama's administration, Soros and a few hundred of thousands crowd in Kiev. But by that time Ukraine was a 40 million country. And basically, several thousands decided the fate of millions in Ukraine with the help of your enemies Obama's administration.
> 
> ^ That is what you support. And that's what keeps harming your own president. It's time to realize it and to start playing in a right team for president, not in a wrong team against him, Toddster
Click to expand...

Bullshit, as usually. 

Yanukovich had been despised by virtually a half of Ukraine since the very beginning (2004). And of course his internal and external policies afterwards didn't get him much support.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> They decided, kicked his ass out.
> 
> 
> 
> Who THEY?Obama's administration, Soros and a few hundred of thousands crowd in Kiev. But by that time Ukraine was a 40 million country. And basically, several thousands decided the fate of millions in Ukraine with the help of your enemies Obama's administration.
> 
> ^ That is what you support. And that's what keeps harming your own president. It's time to realize it and to start playing in a right team for president, not in a wrong team against him, Toddster
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit, as usually.
> 
> Yanukovich had been despised by virtually a half of Ukraine since the very beginning (2004). And of course his internal and external policies afterwards didn't get him much support.
Click to expand...

What exactly did I say wrong?


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> They decided, kicked his ass out.
> 
> 
> 
> Who THEY?Obama's administration, Soros and a few hundred of thousands crowd in Kiev. But by that time Ukraine was a 40 million country. And basically, several thousands decided the fate of millions in Ukraine with the help of your enemies Obama's administration.
> 
> ^ That is what you support. And that's what keeps harming your own president. It's time to realize it and to start playing in a right team for president, not in a wrong team against him, Toddster
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit, as usually.
> 
> Yanukovich had been despised by virtually a half of Ukraine since the very beginning (2004). And of course his internal and external policies afterwards didn't get him much support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What exactly did I say wrong?
Click to expand...

You said that it was a few hundred of thousands who made it possible for the Euromaidan to happen. The overthrowing of Yanukovich was possible because significant part of the country wanted that.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Stratford57 said:


> occupied said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> occupied said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck Russia and that faggot Putin as well. See that comrade? I get to live in a country where I can call your boss a pole smoker and I don't get killed.
> 
> 
> 
> The thread is about  training Nazis and terrorists in Ukraine, do you have anything to contribute to it besides your hate to Russia?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. I just dropped by to take a shit on your Russian propaganda. We are all aware that there are strong right wing nationalist movements across Europe. We are also aware that Russia supports most of them for their destabilizing effect on free societies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have you noticed that my "Russian propaganda" is based on the statements of US FBI agents and US Congressmen only?
Click to expand...


The USA is most definitely very hypocritical.

I mean Russia has done wrong, sure.

But, many things Russia has done wrong, the USA has done too.

A.) Kosovo was supported by the USA, when the situation is not unlike Crimea.

B.) Crimea being invaded is bad, but what about Israel invading Palestine this is good?

C.) The USA has annexed many territories in the past, like the USA South-West, Puerto Rico, Haiwaii, and Guam.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> They decided, kicked his ass out.
> 
> 
> 
> Who THEY?Obama's administration, Soros and a few hundred of thousands crowd in Kiev. But by that time Ukraine was a 40 million country. And basically, several thousands decided the fate of millions in Ukraine with the help of your enemies Obama's administration.
> 
> ^ That is what you support. And that's what keeps harming your own president. It's time to realize it and to start playing in a right team for president, not in a wrong team against him, Toddster
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit, as usually.
> 
> Yanukovich had been despised by virtually a half of Ukraine since the very beginning (2004). And of course his internal and external policies afterwards didn't get him much support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What exactly did I say wrong?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said that it was a few hundred of thousands who made it possible for the Euromaidan to happen. The overthrowing of Yanukovich was possible because significant part of the country wanted that.
Click to expand...

Yes, several hundred of thousands in Kiev + Soros money + Obama's administration made the coup possible in Ukraine.

And yes, like you said significant part of the country wanted that (as well as significant part of the country wanted to be with Russia).

But _significant_ is NOT yet majority. And since there was NO referendum about  that we do NOT know if majority wanted it or not. Such serious swings in the future of the country should NOT be decided in the street, don't you think? If we decided to join Russia in the street, would you be ok with that? I'm afraid we both know the answer.

By the way, Crimeans have had a referendum and we know now the majority wanted reunification with Russia, over 90%. However Ukrainians keep whining about that and calling Crimea "a temporary occupied territory" this rejecting the will of people.

P.S. Also referendums resulted in *90% of vote is in favour of 'people's republics' in Donetsk and Luhansk *(BBC)
Ukraine: pro-Russia separatists set for victory in eastern region referendum

and after that Kiev brought their tanks  and started killing Ukrainian civilians there (blaming Putin for that).


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> occupied said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> occupied said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck Russia and that faggot Putin as well. See that comrade? I get to live in a country where I can call your boss a pole smoker and I don't get killed.
> 
> 
> 
> The thread is about  training Nazis and terrorists in Ukraine, do you have anything to contribute to it besides your hate to Russia?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. I just dropped by to take a shit on your Russian propaganda. We are all aware that there are strong right wing nationalist movements across Europe. We are also aware that Russia supports most of them for their destabilizing effect on free societies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have you noticed that my "Russian propaganda" is based on the statements of US FBI agents and US Congressmen only?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The USA is most definitely very hypocritical.
> 
> I mean Russia has done wrong, sure.
> 
> But, many things Russia has done wrong, the USA has done too.
> 
> A.) Kosovo was supported by the USA, when the situation is not unlike Crimea.
> 
> B.) Crimea being invaded is bad, but what about Israel invading Palestine this is good?
> 
> C.) The USA has annexed many territories in the past, like the USA South-West, Puerto Rico, Haiwaii, and Guam.
Click to expand...



* But, many things Russia has done wrong, the USA has done too.*

Has the USA invaded Poland? Oppressed them for 40+ years?

*Crimea being invaded is bad, but what about Israel invading Palestine this is good?*

When did Israel invade Palestine? When did Palestine exist?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> They decided, kicked his ass out.
> 
> 
> 
> Who THEY?Obama's administration, Soros and a few hundred of thousands crowd in Kiev. But by that time Ukraine was a 40 million country. And basically, several thousands decided the fate of millions in Ukraine with the help of your enemies Obama's administration.
> 
> ^ That is what you support. And that's what keeps harming your own president. It's time to realize it and to start playing in a right team for president, not in a wrong team against him, Toddster
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit, as usually.
> 
> Yanukovich had been despised by virtually a half of Ukraine since the very beginning (2004). And of course his internal and external policies afterwards didn't get him much support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What exactly did I say wrong?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said that it was a few hundred of thousands who made it possible for the Euromaidan to happen. The overthrowing of Yanukovich was possible because significant part of the country wanted that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, several hundred of thousands in Kiev + Soros money + Obama's administration made the coup possible in Ukraine.
> 
> And yes, like you said significant part of the country wanted that (as well as significant part of the country wanted to be with Russia).
> 
> But _significant_ is NOT yet majority. And since there was NO referendum about  that we do NOT know if majority wanted it or not. Such serious swings in the future of the country should NOT be decided in the street, don't you think? If we decided to join Russia in the street, would you be ok with that? I'm afraid we both know the answer.
> 
> By the way, Crimeans have had a referendum and we know now the majority wanted reunification with Russia, over 90%. However Ukrainians keep whining about that and calling Crimea "a temporary occupied territory" this rejecting the will of people.
Click to expand...


*By the way, Crimeans have had a referendum and we know now the majority wanted reunification with Russia*

Can you post the English translation of the referendum?


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *By the way, Crimeans have had a referendum and we know now the majority wanted reunification with Russia*
> 
> Can you post the English translation of the referendum?


I'm not sure what you want, be more specific if you would. Are you talking about referendum _as a word_ or  ... ?


----------



## RodISHI

Deplorable Yankee said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deplorable Yankee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Soros and Obama’s administration have also tuned Ukraine into a cozy place for breeding, training and recruiting of Neo-Nazis. FBI agents and several Congressmen have been trying to attract the people attention but...American  Media has been sooooo silent about that.
> 
> 1. Criminal Complaint of special FBI agent Scott Bierwirth
> https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...laint/0f1e76cdeef814133f24/optimized/full.pdf
> 
> Page 9:
> In August 2018 RAM members had a trip in Ukraine and met with Olena Semenyaka the leader of a political party in Ukraine which was found out of a military regiment  called Azov Battalion. *Azov Battalion is a paramilitary unit of Ukrainian National Guard which is known for its association with Neo-Nazi ideology and use of Nazi symbolism and which is believed to have participated in training and radicalizing United States-based white supremacy organizations.*
> 
> !!!! RAM is an extremist group headquartered in S. California.
> 
> Olena Semenyaka’s picture:
> View attachment 291322
> 
> 2. October 16, 2019 , *Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?*
> 
> “White supremacist violent extremism, one type of racially- and ethnically-motivated violent extremism, is one of the most potent forces driving domestic terrorism.” Rose’s letter names *Azov Battalion*, Nordic Resistance Movement, and National Action as three examples of foreign groups that have been *connected to recent terrorist attacks around the world as well as recruiting and influencing American citizens*.
> 
> The shooter in the Christchurch, New Zeeland, was also trained in Azov Battalion.
> Rose Leads Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?
> 
> 
> 3. KYIV, Ukraine—When Deputy Secretary of State George Kent spoke at the U.S. House of Representatives impeachment hearings this week, he painted a powerful picture of Ukrainian bravery in the face of Russian aggression.
> 
> But Kent most likely did not have in mind the most famous—and infamous—of those volunteer units, the Azov Battalion, which *40 members of Congress have asked the State Department to designate as a Foreign Terrorist Organization.* Some of its members are neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and avowed anti-Semites.
> Ukraine’s Anti-Russia Azov Battalion: ‘Minutemen’ or Neo-Nazi Terrorists?
> 
> 
> 4. Ex FBI agent Ali Soufan:
> 
> And what Syria did for jihadists, Ukraine is doing for white supremacists. “It’s had a galvanizing effect,” Blazakis said. “It’s given them, for lack of a better word, a playground in which there is turmoil and chaos, a kind of playground that doesn’t exist in a conventional sense in places like the United States.”
> 
> One of the most prominent destinations for these fighters is the *Azov Battalion, a pro-Ukrainian force that analysts say has embraced neo-Nazi views while targeting right-wing or white supremacist groups around the world for recruitment.*
> Ukraine's Civil War Is a 'Playground' for White Supremacists. What Could Go Wrong?
> 
> Pictures of Azov Battalion:
> 
> View attachment 291323
> 
> View attachment 291324
> 
> View attachment 291325
> 
> View attachment 291326
> 
> How come American journalists have not reported about such a Nazi nest in the middle of Europe? Russian journalists have been good about reporting this problem. All the facts above are from their Nov 22 news release:
> 
> www.1tv.ru/news/issue/2019-11-22/21:00#4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one cares fuck nuts
> Go stop slavery in africa or something...its still going on
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know what's happening in Africa but Ukraine is my home country screwed up by Americans (Soros+ Obama's administration).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh so now your bitching about my government
> 
> Americans first .....back of the line fuzzy lil foreign  fuck nuts
> 
> View attachment 295721 q
Click to expand...

So are you saying you are okay with what the Clinton and their cabal has done? Stratford is trying to tell you her voice counts as it is her people that they had put at risk with all their thuggery over there.


----------



## Deplorable Yankee

RodISHI said:


> Deplorable Yankee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deplorable Yankee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Soros and Obama’s administration have also tuned Ukraine into a cozy place for breeding, training and recruiting of Neo-Nazis. FBI agents and several Congressmen have been trying to attract the people attention but...American  Media has been sooooo silent about that.
> 
> 1. Criminal Complaint of special FBI agent Scott Bierwirth
> https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...laint/0f1e76cdeef814133f24/optimized/full.pdf
> 
> Page 9:
> In August 2018 RAM members had a trip in Ukraine and met with Olena Semenyaka the leader of a political party in Ukraine which was found out of a military regiment  called Azov Battalion. *Azov Battalion is a paramilitary unit of Ukrainian National Guard which is known for its association with Neo-Nazi ideology and use of Nazi symbolism and which is believed to have participated in training and radicalizing United States-based white supremacy organizations.*
> 
> !!!! RAM is an extremist group headquartered in S. California.
> 
> Olena Semenyaka’s picture:
> View attachment 291322
> 
> 2. October 16, 2019 , *Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?*
> 
> “White supremacist violent extremism, one type of racially- and ethnically-motivated violent extremism, is one of the most potent forces driving domestic terrorism.” Rose’s letter names *Azov Battalion*, Nordic Resistance Movement, and National Action as three examples of foreign groups that have been *connected to recent terrorist attacks around the world as well as recruiting and influencing American citizens*.
> 
> The shooter in the Christchurch, New Zeeland, was also trained in Azov Battalion.
> Rose Leads Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?
> 
> 
> 3. KYIV, Ukraine—When Deputy Secretary of State George Kent spoke at the U.S. House of Representatives impeachment hearings this week, he painted a powerful picture of Ukrainian bravery in the face of Russian aggression.
> 
> But Kent most likely did not have in mind the most famous—and infamous—of those volunteer units, the Azov Battalion, which *40 members of Congress have asked the State Department to designate as a Foreign Terrorist Organization.* Some of its members are neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and avowed anti-Semites.
> Ukraine’s Anti-Russia Azov Battalion: ‘Minutemen’ or Neo-Nazi Terrorists?
> 
> 
> 4. Ex FBI agent Ali Soufan:
> 
> And what Syria did for jihadists, Ukraine is doing for white supremacists. “It’s had a galvanizing effect,” Blazakis said. “It’s given them, for lack of a better word, a playground in which there is turmoil and chaos, a kind of playground that doesn’t exist in a conventional sense in places like the United States.”
> 
> One of the most prominent destinations for these fighters is the *Azov Battalion, a pro-Ukrainian force that analysts say has embraced neo-Nazi views while targeting right-wing or white supremacist groups around the world for recruitment.*
> Ukraine's Civil War Is a 'Playground' for White Supremacists. What Could Go Wrong?
> 
> Pictures of Azov Battalion:
> 
> View attachment 291323
> 
> View attachment 291324
> 
> View attachment 291325
> 
> View attachment 291326
> 
> How come American journalists have not reported about such a Nazi nest in the middle of Europe? Russian journalists have been good about reporting this problem. All the facts above are from their Nov 22 news release:
> 
> www.1tv.ru/news/issue/2019-11-22/21:00#4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one cares fuck nuts
> Go stop slavery in africa or something...its still going on
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know what's happening in Africa but Ukraine is my home country screwed up by Americans (Soros+ Obama's administration).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh so now your bitching about my government
> 
> Americans first .....back of the line fuzzy lil foreign  fuck nuts
> 
> View attachment 295721 q
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So are you saying you are okay with what the Clinton and their cabal has done? Stratford is trying to tell you her voice counts as it is her people that they had put at risk with all their thuggery over there.
Click to expand...



I'm sayin our government..or rather our politicans suck and they should hang from street lamps


----------



## RodISHI

Deplorable Yankee said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deplorable Yankee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deplorable Yankee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Soros and Obama’s administration have also tuned Ukraine into a cozy place for breeding, training and recruiting of Neo-Nazis. FBI agents and several Congressmen have been trying to attract the people attention but...American  Media has been sooooo silent about that.
> 
> 1. Criminal Complaint of special FBI agent Scott Bierwirth
> https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...laint/0f1e76cdeef814133f24/optimized/full.pdf
> 
> Page 9:
> In August 2018 RAM members had a trip in Ukraine and met with Olena Semenyaka the leader of a political party in Ukraine which was found out of a military regiment  called Azov Battalion. *Azov Battalion is a paramilitary unit of Ukrainian National Guard which is known for its association with Neo-Nazi ideology and use of Nazi symbolism and which is believed to have participated in training and radicalizing United States-based white supremacy organizations.*
> 
> !!!! RAM is an extremist group headquartered in S. California.
> 
> Olena Semenyaka’s picture:
> View attachment 291322
> 
> 2. October 16, 2019 , *Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?*
> 
> “White supremacist violent extremism, one type of racially- and ethnically-motivated violent extremism, is one of the most potent forces driving domestic terrorism.” Rose’s letter names *Azov Battalion*, Nordic Resistance Movement, and National Action as three examples of foreign groups that have been *connected to recent terrorist attacks around the world as well as recruiting and influencing American citizens*.
> 
> The shooter in the Christchurch, New Zeeland, was also trained in Azov Battalion.
> Rose Leads Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?
> 
> 
> 3. KYIV, Ukraine—When Deputy Secretary of State George Kent spoke at the U.S. House of Representatives impeachment hearings this week, he painted a powerful picture of Ukrainian bravery in the face of Russian aggression.
> 
> But Kent most likely did not have in mind the most famous—and infamous—of those volunteer units, the Azov Battalion, which *40 members of Congress have asked the State Department to designate as a Foreign Terrorist Organization.* Some of its members are neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and avowed anti-Semites.
> Ukraine’s Anti-Russia Azov Battalion: ‘Minutemen’ or Neo-Nazi Terrorists?
> 
> 
> 4. Ex FBI agent Ali Soufan:
> 
> And what Syria did for jihadists, Ukraine is doing for white supremacists. “It’s had a galvanizing effect,” Blazakis said. “It’s given them, for lack of a better word, a playground in which there is turmoil and chaos, a kind of playground that doesn’t exist in a conventional sense in places like the United States.”
> 
> One of the most prominent destinations for these fighters is the *Azov Battalion, a pro-Ukrainian force that analysts say has embraced neo-Nazi views while targeting right-wing or white supremacist groups around the world for recruitment.*
> Ukraine's Civil War Is a 'Playground' for White Supremacists. What Could Go Wrong?
> 
> Pictures of Azov Battalion:
> 
> View attachment 291323
> 
> View attachment 291324
> 
> View attachment 291325
> 
> View attachment 291326
> 
> How come American journalists have not reported about such a Nazi nest in the middle of Europe? Russian journalists have been good about reporting this problem. All the facts above are from their Nov 22 news release:
> 
> www.1tv.ru/news/issue/2019-11-22/21:00#4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one cares fuck nuts
> Go stop slavery in africa or something...its still going on
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know what's happening in Africa but Ukraine is my home country screwed up by Americans (Soros+ Obama's administration).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh so now your bitching about my government
> 
> Americans first .....back of the line fuzzy lil foreign  fuck nuts
> 
> View attachment 295721 q
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So are you saying you are okay with what the Clinton and their cabal has done? Stratford is trying to tell you her voice counts as it is her people that they had put at risk with all their thuggery over there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sayin our government..or rather our politicans suck and they should hang from street lamps
Click to expand...

You can't separate the two when you have a criminal element running the whole mess and that is exactly what went on.


----------



## Andylusion

Stratford57 said:


> Soros and Obama’s administration have also tuned Ukraine into a cozy place for breeding, training and recruiting of Neo-Nazis. FBI agents and several Congressmen have been trying to attract the people attention but...American  Media has been sooooo silent about that.
> 
> 1. Criminal Complaint of special FBI agent Scott Bierwirth
> https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...laint/0f1e76cdeef814133f24/optimized/full.pdf
> 
> Page 9:
> In August 2018 RAM members had a trip in Ukraine and met with Olena Semenyaka the leader of a political party in Ukraine which was found out of a military regiment  called Azov Battalion. *Azov Battalion is a paramilitary unit of Ukrainian National Guard which is known for its association with Neo-Nazi ideology and use of Nazi symbolism and which is believed to have participated in training and radicalizing United States-based white supremacy organizations.*
> 
> !!!! RAM is an extremist group headquartered in S. California.
> 
> Olena Semenyaka’s picture:
> View attachment 291322
> 
> 2. October 16, 2019 , *Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?*
> 
> “White supremacist violent extremism, one type of racially- and ethnically-motivated violent extremism, is one of the most potent forces driving domestic terrorism.” Rose’s letter names *Azov Battalion*, Nordic Resistance Movement, and National Action as three examples of foreign groups that have been *connected to recent terrorist attacks around the world as well as recruiting and influencing American citizens*.
> 
> The shooter in the Christchurch, New Zeeland, was also trained in Azov Battalion.
> Rose Leads Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?
> 
> 
> 3. KYIV, Ukraine—When Deputy Secretary of State George Kent spoke at the U.S. House of Representatives impeachment hearings this week, he painted a powerful picture of Ukrainian bravery in the face of Russian aggression.
> 
> But Kent most likely did not have in mind the most famous—and infamous—of those volunteer units, the Azov Battalion, which *40 members of Congress have asked the State Department to designate as a Foreign Terrorist Organization.* Some of its members are neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and avowed anti-Semites.
> Ukraine’s Anti-Russia Azov Battalion: ‘Minutemen’ or Neo-Nazi Terrorists?
> 
> 
> 4. Ex FBI agent Ali Soufan:
> 
> And what Syria did for jihadists, Ukraine is doing for white supremacists. “It’s had a galvanizing effect,” Blazakis said. “It’s given them, for lack of a better word, a playground in which there is turmoil and chaos, a kind of playground that doesn’t exist in a conventional sense in places like the United States.”
> 
> One of the most prominent destinations for these fighters is the *Azov Battalion, a pro-Ukrainian force that analysts say has embraced neo-Nazi views while targeting right-wing or white supremacist groups around the world for recruitment.*
> Ukraine's Civil War Is a 'Playground' for White Supremacists. What Could Go Wrong?
> 
> Pictures of Azov Battalion:
> 
> View attachment 291323
> 
> View attachment 291324
> 
> View attachment 291325
> 
> View attachment 291326
> 
> How come American journalists have not reported about such a Nazi nest in the middle of Europe? Russian journalists have been good about reporting this problem. All the facts above are from their Nov 22 news release:
> 
> www.1tv.ru/news/issue/2019-11-22/21:00#4



Really?  The Russians who have no possible interest in undermining support for a country where they are slaughtering the citizens in order to confiscate land and power, is showing how everyone in the Ukraine is a white supremacist?  No kidding?   I'm shocked.  Shocked I say.


----------



## Stratford57

Andylusion said:


> Really?  The Russians who have no possible interest in undermining support for a country where they are slaughtering the citizens in order to confiscate land and power, is showing how everyone in the Ukraine is a white supremacist?  No kidding?   I'm shocked.  Shocked I say.


The parallel reality you've been living for years has just hit the truth, no wonder you are shocked.

Your post is absurd.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> *By the way, Crimeans have had a referendum and we know now the majority wanted reunification with Russia*
> 
> Can you post the English translation of the referendum?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what you want, be more specific if you would. Are you talking about referendum _as a word_ or  ... ?
Click to expand...


*Crimeans have had a referendum *

Can you post the entire text of the referendum, in English?


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Stratford57 said:


> occupied said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck Russia and that faggot Putin as well. See that comrade? I get to live in a country where I can call your boss a pole smoker and I don't get killed.
> 
> 
> 
> The thread is about  training Nazis and terrorists in Ukraine, do you have anything to contribute to it besides your hate to Russia?
Click to expand...


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Stratford57 said:


> occupied said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> occupied said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck Russia and that faggot Putin as well. See that comrade? I get to live in a country where I can call your boss a pole smoker and I don't get killed.
> 
> 
> 
> The thread is about  training Nazis and terrorists in Ukraine, do you have anything to contribute to it besides your hate to Russia?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. I just dropped by to take a shit on your Russian propaganda. We are all aware that there are strong right wing nationalist movements across Europe. We are also aware that Russia supports most of them for their destabilizing effect on free societies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have you noticed that my "Russian propaganda" is based on the statements of US FBI agents and US Congressmen only?
Click to expand...


you're making wayyy too much sense for the troll to comprehend.LOL


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Can you post the entire text of the referendum, in English?


Yes, after you post the entire text of UK referendum about Brexit.

Referendum is NOT _a text_, referendum is _a process_ of voting.


----------



## Andylusion

Stratford57 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  The Russians who have no possible interest in undermining support for a country where they are slaughtering the citizens in order to confiscate land and power, is showing how everyone in the Ukraine is a white supremacist?  No kidding?   I'm shocked.  Shocked I say.
> 
> 
> 
> The parallel reality you've been living for years has just hit the truth, no wonder you are shocked.
> 
> Your post is absurd.
Click to expand...


Yes, you got me.  Gee thanks for illuminating the truth......


----------



## LA RAM FAN

B. Kidd said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B. Kidd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Azov Battalion has been around before and after the Maiden.
> Who do you think sniped all those protesters?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Confession of snipers, who killed both police and protestors in Kiev 2014 in the new Italian film
> 
> "Ukraine-the hidden truth" an Italian film about snipers on the Maidan in Ukraine
> 
> ^English subtitles
> 
> Long story of the Italian documentary short:
> 
> Feb 20, 2014: a group of unknown snipers starts shooting both at police and protesters, pretty soon almost 80 killed.. Until today *the official version is about slaughter conducted by order of Kremlin-backed government.*
> 
> Minister of foreign affairs of Estonia: evidence shows that the people who were killed by snipers from both sides (policemen and people from the street) that they were *the same snipers who killed the people from both sides. *It’s not Yanuckovitch who stands behind snipers but somebody from the new coalition.
> 
> They were *Georgian citizens who were among provokers* acting on the protester’s side. One of them says: “The story starts in Tbilisi and there are many personalities who are hidden behind the scenes, first of them is ex-president of Georgia Mikhail Saakashvili. He’s the main hero of the short bloody war against Russia in 2008. The second was his military adviser Mamuka Mamulashvili. Afterwards *he becomes the leader of “Georgian Legion”, a Georgian volunteer group to combat against pro-Russian protesters in Donbass. *This group was organized by Saakashvili, he gave $1000, promised to give $1500 later to each group member and ordered to go to Kiev.
> 
> Snipers:
> 
> “We had to make provocations, to provoke policemen to turn against the crowd and to attack the people. Mamulashvili presented an *American military guy* [Brian Christopher Boyenger, a sniper from 101 Airborne division USA] and told us *he would be our instructor*. After Maidan he went to Donbass where he would fight in “Georgian Legion”,* he was the one who gave them orders *”
> 
> The first suspicions that the protestors were using small arms were connected to Sergey Pashinsky, who was one of Maidan leaders and later became a deputy of Ukrainian parliament.
> 
> ” In February one could see Parubiy, Pashinsky and Brian in hotel “Ukraine” very often and they were bringing bags with weapons (Makarov pistols, Kalashnikovs automatic rifles, carabines and packs of cartridges. Pashinsky said: *“We have to start shooting, we can’t allow early presidential elections”*. We had to shoot to make more chaos, mess and panic. *There were two Lithuanians in our group too.”*
> 
> “Pashinsky told us to take our things and to follow him to Conservatory building, the group was masked. *We were ordered to shoot both policemen (“Berkut”) and protesters without making any difference.* Only lated I realized: we were used, it was a set up.”
> 
> While there was shooting at the crowd from “Ukraine” hotel, the protesters were trying to hide inside the hotel. Thus the victims were next to their killers.
> 
> At the end of the documentary those snipers told why they decided to tell about this now, not 3 years ago.
> 
> Confession of snipers, who killed both police and protestors in Kiev 2014 in the new Italian film
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you!
> American Muppets media screens out the truth when it's not in American Gov't interests.
Click to expand...


amen to that. btw,what happened to you in the sports section? not that i dont blame you since the NFL is as corrupt as our government is and baseball is aa joke with small market teams unable to compete to go to playoffs anymore.


----------



## Andylusion

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you post the entire text of the referendum, in English?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, after you post the entire text of UK referendum about Brexit.
> 
> Referendum is NOT _a text_, referendum is _a process_ of voting.
Click to expand...


So you won't, because you know what he'll point out....


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you post the entire text of the referendum, in English?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, after you post the entire text of UK referendum about Brexit.
> 
> Referendum is NOT _a text_, referendum is _a process_ of voting.
Click to expand...


If you don't want to post the text of the ballot......just say so.


----------



## Stratford57

Andylusion said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you post the entire text of the referendum, in English?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, after you post the entire text of UK referendum about Brexit.
> 
> Referendum is NOT _a text_, referendum is _a process_ of voting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you won't, because you know what he'll point out....
Click to expand...

Yes, I will, but after I see _the text_ of other referendum (if it exists).


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Stratford57 said:


> JWBooth said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Breeding Nazis in Ukraine, has American Media reported you about that?*
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Soros and Obama’s administration have also tuned Ukraine into a cozy place for breeding, training and recruiting of Neo-Nazis. FBI agents and several Congressmen have been trying to attract the people attention but...American  Media has been sooooo silent about that.
> 
> 1. Criminal Complaint of special FBI agent Scott Bierwirth
> https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...laint/0f1e76cdeef814133f24/optimized/full.pdf
> 
> Page 9:
> In August 2018 RAM members had a trip in Ukraine and met with Olena Semenyaka the leader of a political party in Ukraine which was found out of a military regiment  called Azov Battalion. *Azov Battalion is a paramilitary unit of Ukrainian National Guard which is known for its association with Neo-Nazi ideology and use of Nazi symbolism and which is believed to have participated in training and radicalizing United States-based white supremacy organizations.*
> 
> !!!! RAM is an extremist group headquartered in S. California.
> 
> Olena Semenyaka’s picture:
> View attachment 291322
> 
> 2. October 16, 2019 , *Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?*
> 
> “White supremacist violent extremism, one type of racially- and ethnically-motivated violent extremism, is one of the most potent forces driving domestic terrorism.” Rose’s letter names *Azov Battalion*, Nordic Resistance Movement, and National Action as three examples of foreign groups that have been *connected to recent terrorist attacks around the world as well as recruiting and influencing American citizens*.
> 
> The shooter in the Christchurch, New Zeeland, was also trained in Azov Battalion.
> Rose Leads Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?
> 
> 
> 3. KYIV, Ukraine—When Deputy Secretary of State George Kent spoke at the U.S. House of Representatives impeachment hearings this week, he painted a powerful picture of Ukrainian bravery in the face of Russian aggression.
> 
> But Kent most likely did not have in mind the most famous—and infamous—of those volunteer units, the Azov Battalion, which *40 members of Congress have asked the State Department to designate as a Foreign Terrorist Organization.* Some of its members are neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and avowed anti-Semites.
> Ukraine’s Anti-Russia Azov Battalion: ‘Minutemen’ or Neo-Nazi Terrorists?
> 
> 
> 4. Ex FBI agent Ali Soufan:
> 
> And what Syria did for jihadists, Ukraine is doing for white supremacists. “It’s had a galvanizing effect,” Blazakis said. “It’s given them, for lack of a better word, a playground in which there is turmoil and chaos, a kind of playground that doesn’t exist in a conventional sense in places like the United States.”
> 
> One of the most prominent destinations for these fighters is the *Azov Battalion, a pro-Ukrainian force that analysts say has embraced neo-Nazi views while targeting right-wing or white supremacist groups around the world for recruitment.*
> Ukraine's Civil War Is a 'Playground' for White Supremacists. What Could Go Wrong?
> 
> Pictures of Azov Battalion:
> 
> View attachment 291323
> 
> View attachment 291324
> 
> View attachment 291325
> 
> View attachment 291326
> 
> How come American journalists have not reported about such a Nazi nest in the middle of Europe? Russian journalists have been good about reporting this problem. All the facts above are from their Nov 22 news release:
> 
> www.1tv.ru/news/issue/2019-11-22/21:00#4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like backing Al Qaeda terrorists in Libya and Syria, Ukronazis align with the dimpublicrat war party imperialist agenda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's just a part of Deep State's plan of decreasing the population on the Earth, the civil people like you and me, like our children and parents....
Click to expand...


many of the brainwashed trolls here like occupied just dont get that little fact. they are clueless how america has been a facist dictatership since 1913,that our last great president who tried to put a stop to it and change things,paid the deadly price for it on nov 22nd 1963.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you post the entire text of the referendum, in English?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, after you post the entire text of UK referendum about Brexit.
> 
> Referendum is NOT _a text_, referendum is _a process_ of voting.
Click to expand...


*Yes, after you post the entire text of UK referendum about Brexit.*






Your turn.


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you post the entire text of the referendum, in English?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, after you post the entire text of UK referendum about Brexit.
> 
> Referendum is NOT _a text_, referendum is _a process_ of voting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Yes, after you post the entire text of UK referendum about Brexit.*
> 
> View attachment 295830
> 
> Your turn.
Click to expand...

You asked about the text of the referendum, not the referendum question. No wonder I couldn't understand what you wanted.

Well, if BBC is right (seems to be for change) then:

*Crimea referendum: What does the ballot paper say?* 

A copy of the 16 March ballot paper - released by the Crimean parliament - appears to give voters two choices: to join Russia immediately or gain greater autonomy within Ukraine.


*1. Description*
The ballot paper is in three languages. Russian, Ukranian and Crimean Tatar - the language of the indigenous Tatar community of Crimea. The opening sentences explain that the ballot paper is for use in the referendum on the future of the Crimea set for 16 March.


*2. First option*
Voters are directed to check one of two boxes corresponding to two questions. The first asks: do you support reunifying Crimea with Russia as a subject of the Russian Federation?


*3. Second option*
The second question asked is: Do you support the restoration of the 1992 Crimean constitution and the status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine?


----------



## Stratford57

Bleipriester said:


> Yes and guess who appointed them.
> 
> https://nypost.com/2019/09/12/trump-john-bolton-was-holding-me-back-on-cuba-venezuela/


To me it looks like a desperate attempt to defend that moron Bolton. I'm very happy Trump fired that son of the bi*ch.




Putin to John Bolton: As I recall, there is a bald eagle pictured on the US coat of arms: it holds 13 arrows in one talon and an olive branch in the other as a symbol of peaceful policy: a branch with 13 olives. My question: has your eagle already eaten all the olives leaving only the arrows?
Meeting with Assistant to the US President for National Security Affairs John Bolton


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you post the entire text of the referendum, in English?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, after you post the entire text of UK referendum about Brexit.
> 
> Referendum is NOT _a text_, referendum is _a process_ of voting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Yes, after you post the entire text of UK referendum about Brexit.*
> 
> View attachment 295830
> 
> Your turn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You asked about the text of the referendum, not the referendum question. No wonder I couldn't understand what you wanted.
> 
> Well, if BBC is right (seems to be for change) then:
> 
> *Crimea referendum: What does the ballot paper say?*
> 
> A copy of the 16 March ballot paper - released by the Crimean parliament - appears to give voters two choices: to join Russia immediately or gain greater autonomy within Ukraine.
> 
> 
> *1. Description*
> The ballot paper is in three languages. Russian, Ukranian and Crimean Tatar - the language of the indigenous Tatar community of Crimea. The opening sentences explain that the ballot paper is for use in the referendum on the future of the Crimea set for 16 March.
> 
> 
> *2. First option*
> Voters are directed to check one of two boxes corresponding to two questions. The first asks: do you support reunifying Crimea with Russia as a subject of the Russian Federation?
> 
> 
> *3. Second option*
> The second question asked is: Do you support the restoration of the 1992 Crimean constitution and the status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine?
Click to expand...


*You asked about the text of the referendum, not the referendum question.*

In English, the text means "everything in the referendum document".

Questions, instructions, etc.

_The second question asked is: Do you support the restoration of the 1992 Crimean constitution _

What is the "1992 Crimean constitution"?
How is that different from leaving things unchanged?


----------



## Bleipriester

Stratford57 said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes and guess who appointed them.
> 
> https://nypost.com/2019/09/12/trump-john-bolton-was-holding-me-back-on-cuba-venezuela/
> 
> 
> 
> To me it looks like a desperate attempt to defend that moron Bolton. I'm very happy Trump fired that son of the bi*ch.
> View attachment 295835
> 
> Putin to John Bolton: As I recall, there is a bald eagle pictured on the US coat of arms: it holds 13 arrows in one talon and an olive branch in the other as a symbol of peaceful policy: a branch with 13 olives. My question: has your eagle already eaten all the olives leaving only the arrows?
> Meeting with Assistant to the US President for National Security Affairs John Bolton
Click to expand...

If Trump thinks he can score with being "tougher" than Bolton I know it is not the voters he´s addressing.
For voters he holds big rallies where he ends the wars and regime changes and takes the soldiers back home.


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> What is the "1992 Crimean constitution"?
> How is that different from leaving things unchanged?



In 1992, being at odds with national powers, Crimean leaders declared the independence of the peninsula and passed a constitution that proclaimed Crimea to be a republic within Ukraine, provided that Crimean laws would have priority over Ukrainian laws, established Russian as the official language of the territory, and allowed Crimea to conduct its own foreign policy.  Following a series of compromises with national Ukrainian authorities, this constitution was repealed, and the _Verkhovna Rada_ (parliament) of Ukraine granted Crimea the status of an autonomous republic within Ukraine and adopted a separate law which defines the jurisdiction of the Crimean authorities.  The law allows Crimea to pass its own normative acts provided they do not contradict the laws of Ukraine; adopt a budget and impose local taxes in accordance with the Ukrainian national tax system; implement its own policies in the fields of environmental regulation, social protection, culture, and humanities; and conduct local referendums on questions included in the republic’s jurisdiction.
*
Crimean History, Status, and Referendum | In Custodia Legis: Law Librarians of Congress*

P.S. Crimeans DID NOT want to leave the things unchanged, they have had huge protests against the coup.


----------



## B. Kidd

LA RAM FAN said:


> B. Kidd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B. Kidd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Azov Battalion has been around before and after the Maiden.
> Who do you think sniped all those protesters?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Confession of snipers, who killed both police and protestors in Kiev 2014 in the new Italian film
> 
> "Ukraine-the hidden truth" an Italian film about snipers on the Maidan in Ukraine
> 
> ^English subtitles
> 
> Long story of the Italian documentary short:
> 
> Feb 20, 2014: a group of unknown snipers starts shooting both at police and protesters, pretty soon almost 80 killed.. Until today *the official version is about slaughter conducted by order of Kremlin-backed government.*
> 
> Minister of foreign affairs of Estonia: evidence shows that the people who were killed by snipers from both sides (policemen and people from the street) that they were *the same snipers who killed the people from both sides. *It’s not Yanuckovitch who stands behind snipers but somebody from the new coalition.
> 
> They were *Georgian citizens who were among provokers* acting on the protester’s side. One of them says: “The story starts in Tbilisi and there are many personalities who are hidden behind the scenes, first of them is ex-president of Georgia Mikhail Saakashvili. He’s the main hero of the short bloody war against Russia in 2008. The second was his military adviser Mamuka Mamulashvili. Afterwards *he becomes the leader of “Georgian Legion”, a Georgian volunteer group to combat against pro-Russian protesters in Donbass. *This group was organized by Saakashvili, he gave $1000, promised to give $1500 later to each group member and ordered to go to Kiev.
> 
> Snipers:
> 
> “We had to make provocations, to provoke policemen to turn against the crowd and to attack the people. Mamulashvili presented an *American military guy* [Brian Christopher Boyenger, a sniper from 101 Airborne division USA] and told us *he would be our instructor*. After Maidan he went to Donbass where he would fight in “Georgian Legion”,* he was the one who gave them orders *”
> 
> The first suspicions that the protestors were using small arms were connected to Sergey Pashinsky, who was one of Maidan leaders and later became a deputy of Ukrainian parliament.
> 
> ” In February one could see Parubiy, Pashinsky and Brian in hotel “Ukraine” very often and they were bringing bags with weapons (Makarov pistols, Kalashnikovs automatic rifles, carabines and packs of cartridges. Pashinsky said: *“We have to start shooting, we can’t allow early presidential elections”*. We had to shoot to make more chaos, mess and panic. *There were two Lithuanians in our group too.”*
> 
> “Pashinsky told us to take our things and to follow him to Conservatory building, the group was masked. *We were ordered to shoot both policemen (“Berkut”) and protesters without making any difference.* Only lated I realized: we were used, it was a set up.”
> 
> While there was shooting at the crowd from “Ukraine” hotel, the protesters were trying to hide inside the hotel. Thus the victims were next to their killers.
> 
> At the end of the documentary those snipers told why they decided to tell about this now, not 3 years ago.
> 
> Confession of snipers, who killed both police and protestors in Kiev 2014 in the new Italian film
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you!
> American Muppets media screens out the truth when it's not in American Gov't interests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> amen to that. btw,what happened to you in the sports section? not that i dont blame you since the NFL is as corrupt as our government is and baseball is aa joke with small market teams unable to compete to go to playoffs anymore.
Click to expand...


I got tired of picking winners for ingrates!

BTW, Rams fans are *stuck *with Goff as their QB!


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

LA RAM FAN said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JWBooth said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Breeding Nazis in Ukraine, has American Media reported you about that?*
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Soros and Obama’s administration have also tuned Ukraine into a cozy place for breeding, training and recruiting of Neo-Nazis. FBI agents and several Congressmen have been trying to attract the people attention but...American  Media has been sooooo silent about that.
> 
> 1. Criminal Complaint of special FBI agent Scott Bierwirth
> https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...laint/0f1e76cdeef814133f24/optimized/full.pdf
> 
> Page 9:
> In August 2018 RAM members had a trip in Ukraine and met with Olena Semenyaka the leader of a political party in Ukraine which was found out of a military regiment  called Azov Battalion. *Azov Battalion is a paramilitary unit of Ukrainian National Guard which is known for its association with Neo-Nazi ideology and use of Nazi symbolism and which is believed to have participated in training and radicalizing United States-based white supremacy organizations.*
> 
> !!!! RAM is an extremist group headquartered in S. California.
> 
> Olena Semenyaka’s picture:
> View attachment 291322
> 
> 2. October 16, 2019 , *Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?*
> 
> “White supremacist violent extremism, one type of racially- and ethnically-motivated violent extremism, is one of the most potent forces driving domestic terrorism.” Rose’s letter names *Azov Battalion*, Nordic Resistance Movement, and National Action as three examples of foreign groups that have been *connected to recent terrorist attacks around the world as well as recruiting and influencing American citizens*.
> 
> The shooter in the Christchurch, New Zeeland, was also trained in Azov Battalion.
> Rose Leads Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?
> 
> 
> 3. KYIV, Ukraine—When Deputy Secretary of State George Kent spoke at the U.S. House of Representatives impeachment hearings this week, he painted a powerful picture of Ukrainian bravery in the face of Russian aggression.
> 
> But Kent most likely did not have in mind the most famous—and infamous—of those volunteer units, the Azov Battalion, which *40 members of Congress have asked the State Department to designate as a Foreign Terrorist Organization.* Some of its members are neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and avowed anti-Semites.
> Ukraine’s Anti-Russia Azov Battalion: ‘Minutemen’ or Neo-Nazi Terrorists?
> 
> 
> 4. Ex FBI agent Ali Soufan:
> 
> And what Syria did for jihadists, Ukraine is doing for white supremacists. “It’s had a galvanizing effect,” Blazakis said. “It’s given them, for lack of a better word, a playground in which there is turmoil and chaos, a kind of playground that doesn’t exist in a conventional sense in places like the United States.”
> 
> One of the most prominent destinations for these fighters is the *Azov Battalion, a pro-Ukrainian force that analysts say has embraced neo-Nazi views while targeting right-wing or white supremacist groups around the world for recruitment.*
> Ukraine's Civil War Is a 'Playground' for White Supremacists. What Could Go Wrong?
> 
> Pictures of Azov Battalion:
> 
> View attachment 291323
> 
> View attachment 291324
> 
> View attachment 291325
> 
> View attachment 291326
> 
> How come American journalists have not reported about such a Nazi nest in the middle of Europe? Russian journalists have been good about reporting this problem. All the facts above are from their Nov 22 news release:
> 
> www.1tv.ru/news/issue/2019-11-22/21:00#4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like backing Al Qaeda terrorists in Libya and Syria, Ukronazis align with the dimpublicrat war party imperialist agenda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's just a part of Deep State's plan of decreasing the population on the Earth, the civil people like you and me, like our children and parents....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> many of the brainwashed trolls here like occupied just dont get that little fact. they are clueless how america has been a facist dictatership since 1913,that our last great president who tried to put a stop to it and change things,paid the deadly price for it on nov 22nd 1963.
Click to expand...


Hmm, the USA has been Crony Capitalist since its start.

Well, maybe, maybe not at every turn, but a lot of it.

Fascism can effectively squash Globalism & Crony Capitalism, actually.

Why do you think the Globalists kick & scream the most about Fascism?
It puts them on a short leash.

Both Capitalism & Communism put us on a short leash.


----------



## Stratford57

Bleipriester said:


> For voters he holds big rallies where he ends the wars and regime changes and takes the soldiers back home.



He would do everything he says if Dems were not sticking his wheels constantly.

Sept 29, Russian political talk show “The Great Game” (already  interpreted into English), Minute 20
The Great Game. 29.09.2019

Question: Can you say president Trump would like to have better relations with Russia if he could?
Maria Zakharova: They want to have better relations with the whole globe. But all of their efforts are challenges with their issues at home. It’s not about Russia here, American internal political fights require 100% of their efforts and attention. The Trump administration simply has no time or energy for international relation.

Maria Zakharova - Wikipedia


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is the "1992 Crimean constitution"?
> How is that different from leaving things unchanged?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1992, being at odds with national powers, Crimean leaders declared the independence of the peninsula and passed a constitution that proclaimed Crimea to be a republic within Ukraine, provided that Crimean laws would have priority over Ukrainian laws, established Russian as the official language of the territory, and allowed Crimea to conduct its own foreign policy.  Following a series of compromises with national Ukrainian authorities, this constitution was repealed, and the _Verkhovna Rada_ (parliament) of Ukraine granted Crimea the status of an autonomous republic within Ukraine and adopted a separate law which defines the jurisdiction of the Crimean authorities.  The law allows Crimea to pass its own normative acts provided they do not contradict the laws of Ukraine; adopt a budget and impose local taxes in accordance with the Ukrainian national tax system; implement its own policies in the fields of environmental regulation, social protection, culture, and humanities; and conduct local referendums on questions included in the republic’s jurisdiction.
> *
> Crimean History, Status, and Referendum | In Custodia Legis: Law Librarians of Congress*
> 
> P.S. Crimeans DID NOT want to leave the things unchanged, they have had huge protests against the coup.
Click to expand...


So the two choices were leave Ukraine and become part of Russia or be independent.

Why not, "be part of Russia or leave things unchanged"?


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is the "1992 Crimean constitution"?
> How is that different from leaving things unchanged?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1992, being at odds with national powers, Crimean leaders declared the independence of the peninsula and passed a constitution that proclaimed Crimea to be a republic within Ukraine, provided that Crimean laws would have priority over Ukrainian laws, established Russian as the official language of the territory, and allowed Crimea to conduct its own foreign policy.  Following a series of compromises with national Ukrainian authorities, this constitution was repealed, and the _Verkhovna Rada_ (parliament) of Ukraine granted Crimea the status of an autonomous republic within Ukraine and adopted a separate law which defines the jurisdiction of the Crimean authorities.  The law allows Crimea to pass its own normative acts provided they do not contradict the laws of Ukraine; adopt a budget and impose local taxes in accordance with the Ukrainian national tax system; implement its own policies in the fields of environmental regulation, social protection, culture, and humanities; and conduct local referendums on questions included in the republic’s jurisdiction.
> *
> Crimean History, Status, and Referendum | In Custodia Legis: Law Librarians of Congress*
> 
> P.S. Crimeans DID NOT want to leave the things unchanged, they have had huge protests against the coup.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So the two choices were leave Ukraine and become part of Russia or be independent.
> 
> Why not, "be part of Russia or leave things unchanged"?
Click to expand...

The main question was to stay in Ukraine or not. The people said their *NO.*


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is the "1992 Crimean constitution"?
> How is that different from leaving things unchanged?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1992, being at odds with national powers, Crimean leaders declared the independence of the peninsula and passed a constitution that proclaimed Crimea to be a republic within Ukraine, provided that Crimean laws would have priority over Ukrainian laws, established Russian as the official language of the territory, and allowed Crimea to conduct its own foreign policy.  Following a series of compromises with national Ukrainian authorities, this constitution was repealed, and the _Verkhovna Rada_ (parliament) of Ukraine granted Crimea the status of an autonomous republic within Ukraine and adopted a separate law which defines the jurisdiction of the Crimean authorities.  The law allows Crimea to pass its own normative acts provided they do not contradict the laws of Ukraine; adopt a budget and impose local taxes in accordance with the Ukrainian national tax system; implement its own policies in the fields of environmental regulation, social protection, culture, and humanities; and conduct local referendums on questions included in the republic’s jurisdiction.
> *
> Crimean History, Status, and Referendum | In Custodia Legis: Law Librarians of Congress*
> 
> P.S. Crimeans DID NOT want to leave the things unchanged, they have had huge protests against the coup.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So the two choices were leave Ukraine and become part of Russia or be independent.
> 
> Why not, "be part of Russia or leave things unchanged"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The main question was to stay in Ukraine or not. The people said their *NO.*
Click to expand...


None of the questions allowed no change.

What was Putin afraid of?


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> None of the questions allowed no change.
> 
> What was Putin afraid of?


If there were no changes then what the West and Ukraine have been bitching about?

Putin was not afraid, he knew the vast majority of Crimeans were dreaming about reunification with Russia. As well as the vast majority of Eastern Ukraine where I live. But Ukrainians don't have balls to hold referendum in our areas.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> None of the questions allowed no change.
> 
> What was Putin afraid of?
> 
> 
> 
> If there were no changes then what the West and Ukraine have been bitching about?
> 
> Putin was not afraid, he knew the vast majority of Crimeans were dreaming about reunification with Russia. As well as the vast majority of Eastern Ukraine where I live. But Ukrainians don't have balls to hold referendum in our areas.
Click to expand...



*If there were no changes then what the West and Ukraine have been bitching about?*

No change was not one of the choices in the referendum.

*Putin was not afraid*

LOL!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> None of the questions allowed no change.
> 
> What was Putin afraid of?
> 
> 
> 
> If there were no changes then what the West and Ukraine have been bitching about?
> 
> Putin was not afraid, he knew the vast majority of Crimeans were dreaming about reunification with Russia. As well as the vast majority of Eastern Ukraine where I live. But Ukrainians don't have balls to hold referendum in our areas.
Click to expand...



Putin bombed buildings in Moscow. That was okay with you?

Why no answer?


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Putin bombed buildings in Moscow. That was okay with you?
> 
> Why no answer?


Because it's absurd.


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *If there were no changes then what the West and Ukraine have been bitching about?*
> 
> No change was not one of the choices in the referendum.


People in Crimea were given even more options than Brits on their referendum.

No change would be to stay with Ukrainian Nazis which nobody wanted.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin bombed buildings in Moscow. That was okay with you?
> 
> Why no answer?
> 
> 
> 
> Because it's absurd.
Click to expand...


Putin murdered his fellow Russians, that's evil, not absurd.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> *If there were no changes then what the West and Ukraine have been bitching about?*
> 
> No change was not one of the choices in the referendum.
> 
> 
> 
> People in Crimea were given even more options than Brits on their referendum.
> 
> No change would be to stay with Ukrainian Nazis which nobody wanted.
Click to expand...


What are the 5 biggest differences between Nazis and Commies?


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin bombed buildings in Moscow. That was okay with you?
> 
> Why no answer?
> 
> 
> 
> Because it's absurd.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Putin murdered his fellow Russians, that's evil, not absurd.
Click to expand...

When and where exactly? Link, please.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin bombed buildings in Moscow. That was okay with you?
> 
> Why no answer?
> 
> 
> 
> Because it's absurd.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Putin murdered his fellow Russians, that's evil, not absurd.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When and where exactly? Link, please.
Click to expand...


Russian apartment bombings - Wikipedia


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Russian apartment bombings - Wikipedia



How about all the other radical Muslims' attacks in Russia, why won't Wikipedia blame Putin for them as well? He did not need any presidency, Yeltsin retired on New Year Eve of 2000 and suggested Putin as his temporary sub. Pretty often Wikipedia substitutes facts with conspiracy theories, I didn't see any attempt to prove that alleged story.

The Guardian:
Timeline of Russian terror attacks

*June 1995* Chechen rebels seize hundreds of hostages in a hospital in the southern Russian town of Budennovsk. More than 100 people are killed during the assault and a botched Russian commando raid.

*January 1996 *Chechen fighters take hundreds hostage in another hospital, this time in Kizlyar, Dagestan, and move them by bus to Pervomayskoye on the Chechen border. Most rebels escape but many hostages are killed during a rescue attempt.

*September 1999* Bombs destroy apartment blocks in Moscow, Buynaksk and Volgodonsk. More than 200 people are killed. Moscow blames Chechens who in turn blame Russian secret services.

*23-26 October 2002 *Russian troops storm a Moscow theatre where rebels had taken 700 people captive three days earlier; 129 hostages and 41 Chechen guerrillas are killed. Most of the hostages die from the effects of gas used against the Chechens.

*1 August 2003 *A suicide bomber driving a truck packed with explosives blows up a military hospital at Mozdok in North Ossetia, bordering Chechnya. Fifty people are killed.

*5 December 2003 *An explosion tears through a morning commuter train just outside Yessentuki station in Russia's southern fringe, killing 46 people and injuring 160.

*6 February 2004 *A suicide bombing kills at least 39 people and wounds more than 100 on an underground train in Moscow.

*22 June 2004 *Rebels seize an interior ministry building in Ingushetia, near Chechnya, and attack other locations. At least 92 people are killed including the acting regional interior minister Abukar Kostoyev.

*24 August 2004 *Two Russian passenger planes are blown up almost simultaneously, killing 90 people. One Tu-134, flying to Volgograd, goes down south of Moscow. Moments later a Tu-154 bound for Sochi crashes near Rostov-on-Don.

*1-3 September 2004 *331 hostages – half of them children – die in a chaotic storming of a school in Beslan, after it is seized by rebels demanding Chechen independence.

*17 August 2009 *A suicide bomber drives a truck into the gates of the main police station in Nazran, the largest city in Ingushetia, killing 20 people and wounding 138 others.

*29 March 2010 *Moscow suffers its worst attack in six years when two female suicide bombers from Russia's volatile Dagestan region set off explosives on the subway system, killing 40 people.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russian apartment bombings - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about all the other radical Muslims' attacks in Russia, why won't Wikipedia blame Putin for them as well? He did not need any presidency, Yeltsin retired on New Year Eve of 2000 and suggested Putin as his temporary sub. Pretty often Wikipedia substitutes facts with conspiracy theories, I didn't see any attempt to prove that alleged story.
> 
> The Guardian:
> Timeline of Russian terror attacks
> 
> *June 1995* Chechen rebels seize hundreds of hostages in a hospital in the southern Russian town of Budennovsk. More than 100 people are killed during the assault and a botched Russian commando raid.
> 
> *January 1996 *Chechen fighters take hundreds hostage in another hospital, this time in Kizlyar, Dagestan, and move them by bus to Pervomayskoye on the Chechen border. Most rebels escape but many hostages are killed during a rescue attempt.
> 
> *September 1999* Bombs destroy apartment blocks in Moscow, Buynaksk and Volgodonsk. More than 200 people are killed. Moscow blames Chechens who in turn blame Russian secret services.
> 
> *23-26 October 2002 *Russian troops storm a Moscow theatre where rebels had taken 700 people captive three days earlier; 129 hostages and 41 Chechen guerrillas are killed. Most of the hostages die from the effects of gas used against the Chechens.
> 
> *1 August 2003 *A suicide bomber driving a truck packed with explosives blows up a military hospital at Mozdok in North Ossetia, bordering Chechnya. Fifty people are killed.
> 
> *5 December 2003 *An explosion tears through a morning commuter train just outside Yessentuki station in Russia's southern fringe, killing 46 people and injuring 160.
> 
> *6 February 2004 *A suicide bombing kills at least 39 people and wounds more than 100 on an underground train in Moscow.
> 
> *22 June 2004 *Rebels seize an interior ministry building in Ingushetia, near Chechnya, and attack other locations. At least 92 people are killed including the acting regional interior minister Abukar Kostoyev.
> 
> *24 August 2004 *Two Russian passenger planes are blown up almost simultaneously, killing 90 people. One Tu-134, flying to Volgograd, goes down south of Moscow. Moments later a Tu-154 bound for Sochi crashes near Rostov-on-Don.
> 
> *1-3 September 2004 *331 hostages – half of them children – die in a chaotic storming of a school in Beslan, after it is seized by rebels demanding Chechen independence.
> 
> *17 August 2009 *A suicide bomber drives a truck into the gates of the main police station in Nazran, the largest city in Ingushetia, killing 20 people and wounding 138 others.
> 
> *29 March 2010 *Moscow suffers its worst attack in six years when two female suicide bombers from Russia's volatile Dagestan region set off explosives on the subway system, killing 40 people.
Click to expand...


*How about all the other radical Muslims' attacks in Russia*

What does that have to do with Putin bombing his own people?


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *How about all the other radical Muslims' attacks in Russia*
> 
> What does that have to do with Putin bombing his own people?


Can you show me *the actual proof* that it was "Putin bombing his own people" not radical Muslims blowing Russians?

Which one makes more sense to you? Especially, after you saw how many more blow ups there have been in Russia before and after 1999. Or you just hate to drop your "love" to Putin?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> *How about all the other radical Muslims' attacks in Russia*
> 
> What does that have to do with Putin bombing his own people?
> 
> 
> 
> Can you show me *the actual proof* that it was "Putin bombing his own people" not radical Muslims blowing Russians?
> 
> Which one makes more sense to you? Especially, after you saw how many more blow ups there have been in Russia before and after 1999. Or you just hate to drop your "love" to Putin?
Click to expand...


*Which one makes more sense to you? Especially, after you saw how many more blow ups there have been in Russia before and after 1999. *

The Muslims were the intended scapegoats.


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> The Muslims were the intended scapegoats.


Really? Only in Russia or in NY city, Boston, Nice, London, Berlin as well? _The intended scapegoats_ blew up, stabbed, ran over the people there too?

May be Bush ordered to blow up Twin Towers using _the intended scapegoats_ to make it easy to start bombing Iraq, ha? (according to your own logic, I'm NOT responsible for it!)

Do you have an actual proof  of your accusations or nothing but blah-blah?


----------



## Bleipriester

Stratford57 said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> For voters he holds big rallies where he ends the wars and regime changes and takes the soldiers back home.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He would do everything he says if Dems were not sticking his wheels constantly.
> 
> Sept 29, Russian political talk show “The Great Game” (already  interpreted into English), Minute 20
> The Great Game. 29.09.2019
> 
> Question: Can you say president Trump would like to have better relations with Russia if he could?
> Maria Zakharova: They want to have better relations with the whole globe. But all of their efforts are challenges with their issues at home. It’s not about Russia here, American internal political fights require 100% of their efforts and attention. The Trump administration simply has no time or energy for international relation.
> 
> Maria Zakharova - Wikipedia
Click to expand...

But Trump is President, he can decide.


----------



## Stratford57

Bleipriester said:


> But Trump is President, he can decide.


Apparently, he can't. Constantly under some idiotic attacks from Dems.

Russian political talk show “The Great Game” (already  interpreted into English) Minute 36
The Great Game. 29.09.2019

Alexey Pushkov: Dems’ goal is to topple Trump. These past two years they’ve been in a non-stop hysteria. They started up with finding a porn star and when that didn’t work they decided to look into allegations of collusions with Russia. They have been investigating that for 2 years, 32.4 million dollars have been spent on the Mueller investigation and at the end Mueller said there was not any sufficient evidence to support the allegation that Trump has colluded with Russia. So, the collusion accusation was off the mark. The narrative that Russia meddled in US election has not gone away but it  is getting old, doesn’t touch the nerve any more, it’s not considered to be enough bate any more to catch such a big fish as Trump, he’s off this hook already. Only Hillary Clinton doesn’t seem to leave this topic alone.

So, they invented a new theory. And they appeared to have found that pretext initiating impeachment inquiry, nothing will come out of it of course. There is no doubt the Senate will not give Trump away.

Why are the Democrats are doing what they are doing then? By playing this card they seek to weaken Trump before the elections: the voters will “know” that the president has done something and nobody will look at the substance of the claim and the claim is completely unfounded. Moreover, f Trump chooses the right line of conduct (and I think he might). It’s Biden who will lose the most.

Aleksey Pushkov - Wikipedia


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Muslims were the intended scapegoats.
> 
> 
> 
> Really? Only in Russia or in NY city, Boston, Nice, London, Berlin as well? _The intended scapegoats_ blew up, stabbed, ran over the people there too?
> 
> May be Bush ordered to blow up Twin Towers using _the intended scapegoats_ to make it easy to start bombing Iraq, ha? (according to your own logic, I'm NOT responsible for it!)
> 
> Do you have an actual proof  of your accusations or nothing but blah-blah?
Click to expand...


*Do you have an actual proof of your accusations or nothing but blah-blah?*

You don't know what I'm talking about?
Pretending ignorance, or ignorant for real?


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> They decided, kicked his ass out.
> 
> 
> 
> Who THEY?Obama's administration, Soros and a few hundred of thousands crowd in Kiev. But by that time Ukraine was a 40 million country. And basically, several thousands decided the fate of millions in Ukraine with the help of your enemies Obama's administration.
> 
> ^ That is what you support. And that's what keeps harming your own president. It's time to realize it and to start playing in a right team for president, not in a wrong team against him, Toddster
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit, as usually.
> 
> Yanukovich had been despised by virtually a half of Ukraine since the very beginning (2004). And of course his internal and external policies afterwards didn't get him much support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What exactly did I say wrong?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said that it was a few hundred of thousands who made it possible for the Euromaidan to happen. The overthrowing of Yanukovich was possible because significant part of the country wanted that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, several hundred of thousands in Kiev + Soros money + Obama's administration made the coup possible in Ukraine.
> 
> And yes, like you said significant part of the country wanted that (as well as significant part of the country wanted to be with Russia).
> 
> But _significant_ is NOT yet majority. And since there was NO referendum about  that we do NOT know if majority wanted it or not. Such serious swings in the future of the country should NOT be decided in the street, don't you think? If we decided to join Russia in the street, would you be ok with that? I'm afraid we both know the answer.
> 
> By the way, Crimeans have had a referendum and we know now the majority wanted reunification with Russia, over 90%. However Ukrainians keep whining about that and calling Crimea "a temporary occupied territory" this rejecting the will of people.
> 
> P.S. Also referendums resulted in *90% of vote is in favour of 'people's republics' in Donetsk and Luhansk *(BBC)
> Ukraine: pro-Russia separatists set for victory in eastern region referendum
> 
> and after that Kiev brought their tanks  and started killing Ukrainian civilians there (blaming Putin for that).
Click to expand...

Yes, a referenda can give the best answer what people think. But it hasn't been held. All we have now is opinion polls. 

About so called Crimean referendum. Personally I believe that majority of Crimeans would vote for becoming a part of Russia. But about the exact numbers I can't say. I don't believe Putin, his cronies and their referendum.


----------



## theHawk

The media isn’t going to talk about Nazis in Ukraine because it’s George Soros, and his puppet Barack Hussein, who helped get them in power.


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *Do you have an actual proof of your accusations or nothing but blah-blah?
> *
> You don't know what I'm talking about?
> Pretending ignorance, or ignorant for real?



Yes, I do know what you’re talking about: it’s called absurd. And also I know you don’t have anything to prove it.

Meanwhile let’s see what Stephen Cohen writes:

_…for nearly a decade, the American media has so demonized Putin that we’ve lost sight of him, and we’ve obscured the possibilities that are there and that he’s offered to enhance, through some kind of steady, calm cooperation, American national security.…_

_Putin on the other hand has been an exceedingly successful national leader of Russia in foreign policy for 13 years. _
The Real Reason the US Media Hates Vladimir Putin - Daily Reckoning

For nearly 10 years, mainstream press reporting, editorials and op-ed articles have increasingly portrayed Putin as a czar-like “autocrat,” or alternatively a “KGB thug,” who imposed a “rollback of democratic reforms” under way in Russia when he succeeded Boris Yeltsin as president in 2000. He installed instead a “venal regime” that has permitted “corruptionism,” encouraged the assassination of a “growing number” of journalists and carried out the “killing of political opponents.” Not infrequently, Putin is compared to Saddam Hussein and even Stalin.

 but *there is no evidence that any of these allegations against him are true,* or at least entirely true. Most seem to have originated with Putin’s personal enemies, particularly Yeltsin-era oligarchs

The exceptionally vilifying charge that Putin has been behind the killing of political opponents focuses mainly on two victims – the investigative journalist Anna Politkovskaya, who was shot to death in Moscow in 2006; and a reputed KGB defector, Aleksandr Litvinenko, who died of radiation poisoning in London, also in 2006.

*Not a shred of evidence or an element of logic points to Putin in either case.*

Are U.S. policymakers aware of Putin’s extraordinary assistance to the U.S. war effort in Afghanistan after 9/11, his crucial help in supplying NATO troops now there or his support for harsher sanctions against Iran? Do they know that for these and other “pro-American” concessions he is viewed by many Russian national security officials as an “appeaser?”
Stop the pointless demonization of Putin


*Unfortunately, we have a short memory* and have already forgotten that after 9/11 Putin was the first who called Bush and said: “That was terrible. How can we help you guys?”

Then US went to war in Afghanistan to destroy Taliban and Putin helped US to get the victory in this war with minimum losses more than anybody else, *even more than any NATO country.*

Putin also shared his intelligence data with USA and so on and on. He was even criticized in Russia, so for a while he looked more like being pro-American leader, not even a bit anti-American.
Demonization of Putin is one of the biggest threats to American national security,Stephen Cohen.

And Putin warned CIA about Tsarnayev brothers who later were responsible for terror attack in Boston, but it’s not his fault CIA ignored his information.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Yes, a referenda can give the best answer what people think. But it hasn't been held. All we have now is opinion polls.
> 
> About so called Crimean referendum. Personally I believe that majority of Crimeans would vote for becoming a part of Russia. But about the exact numbers I can't say. I don't believe Putin, his cronies and their referendum.



According to the polls Mrs. Clinton is a president of USA and the NY morning newspapers the day after elections had her pictures and headlines “Congratulations. Madame President!” And we all know what happened.

BTW, replying your previous post, I’d like to post what Stephen Cohen thinks about the coup in “independent” Ukraine.

_The American media coverage of Ukraine is wrong and inflammatory from beginning to end. _

_Why did the European Union tell the democratically elected president of such a profoundly divided country, two Ukraines, in November, that he must decide either/or, you’re either with Europe, or you’re with Russia? That’s a provocation, and that’s where this began. And here’s what’s not reported._

Cohen referred to the leaked conversation between the top State Department official Victoria Nuland and the US ambassador in Kiev, in which she dismissed the EU with the F-word, as further proof that the *US wants a new anti-Russian Ukrainian government and is prepared to participate in a coup to achieve that end*:

_Stop and think how that story was covered in the American media. The first lead was oh my gosh, she said F the EU. The second lead was who leaked this story? Oh, it must’ve been the Russians. Look at those horrible Russians. But that wasn’t the story. _*The story is what the top State Department official said to the American ambassador in Kiev.*

_*And what she said is you and I are empowered to form a new Ukrainian government. And they’re actually discussing who should be in this government. And the new government is going to get rid of the democratically elected president of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych.*_

_Now we may hate Yanukovych. He may be a rat of the first magnitude. But in plain language, they were plotting a coup d’etat against a democratically elected president. And we know that in countries with fragile democratic traditions, when you overthrow an elected president, you are setting back democracy maybe decades [emphasis added]._

Details at:
The Real Reason the US Media Hates Vladimir Putin - Daily Reckoning


----------



## Stratford57

theHawk said:


> The media isn’t going to talk about Nazis in Ukraine because it’s George Soros, and his puppet Barack Hussein, who helped get them in power.


Absolutely.

Soros owns the Media not only in USA but abroad as well.

Today, the major outlets are almost all owned by  six conglomerates. They can easily hide the truth or spread all kinds of lies simultaneously. And that's basically what we have been witnessing lately. 

Big6:
The 6 Companies That Own (Almost) All Media [INFOGRAPHIC]


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Do you have an actual proof of your accusations or nothing but blah-blah?
> *
> You don't know what I'm talking about?
> Pretending ignorance, or ignorant for real?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I do know what you’re talking about: it’s called absurd. And also I know you don’t have anything to prove it.
> 
> Meanwhile let’s see what Stephen Cohen writes:
> 
> _…for nearly a decade, the American media has so demonized Putin that we’ve lost sight of him, and we’ve obscured the possibilities that are there and that he’s offered to enhance, through some kind of steady, calm cooperation, American national security.…_
> 
> _Putin on the other hand has been an exceedingly successful national leader of Russia in foreign policy for 13 years. _
> The Real Reason the US Media Hates Vladimir Putin - Daily Reckoning
> 
> For nearly 10 years, mainstream press reporting, editorials and op-ed articles have increasingly portrayed Putin as a czar-like “autocrat,” or alternatively a “KGB thug,” who imposed a “rollback of democratic reforms” under way in Russia when he succeeded Boris Yeltsin as president in 2000. He installed instead a “venal regime” that has permitted “corruptionism,” encouraged the assassination of a “growing number” of journalists and carried out the “killing of political opponents.” Not infrequently, Putin is compared to Saddam Hussein and even Stalin.
> 
> but *there is no evidence that any of these allegations against him are true,* or at least entirely true. Most seem to have originated with Putin’s personal enemies, particularly Yeltsin-era oligarchs
> 
> The exceptionally vilifying charge that Putin has been behind the killing of political opponents focuses mainly on two victims – the investigative journalist Anna Politkovskaya, who was shot to death in Moscow in 2006; and a reputed KGB defector, Aleksandr Litvinenko, who died of radiation poisoning in London, also in 2006.
> 
> *Not a shred of evidence or an element of logic points to Putin in either case.*
> 
> Are U.S. policymakers aware of Putin’s extraordinary assistance to the U.S. war effort in Afghanistan after 9/11, his crucial help in supplying NATO troops now there or his support for harsher sanctions against Iran? Do they know that for these and other “pro-American” concessions he is viewed by many Russian national security officials as an “appeaser?”
> Stop the pointless demonization of Putin
> 
> 
> *Unfortunately, we have a short memory* and have already forgotten that after 9/11 Putin was the first who called Bush and said: “That was terrible. How can we help you guys?”
> 
> Then US went to war in Afghanistan to destroy Taliban and Putin helped US to get the victory in this war with minimum losses more than anybody else, *even more than any NATO country.*
> 
> Putin also shared his intelligence data with USA and so on and on. He was even criticized in Russia, so for a while he looked more like being pro-American leader, not even a bit anti-American.
> Demonization of Putin is one of the biggest threats to American national security,Stephen Cohen.
> 
> And Putin warned CIA about Tsarnayev brothers who later were responsible for terror attack in Boston, but it’s not his fault CIA ignored his information.
Click to expand...


*Yes, I do know what you’re talking about: it’s called absurd. And also I know you don’t have anything to prove it.*

_All available evidence points to Putin’s complicity in the 1999 apartment-building bombings in Russia. Those who have tried to investigate have been killed off, one by one. _


_I believe that Vladimir Putin came to power as the result of an act of terror committed against his own people. The evidence is overwhelming that the apartment-house bombings in 1999 in Moscow, Buinaksk, and Volgodonsk, which provided a pretext for the second Chechen war and catapulted Putin into the presidency, were carried out by the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB). Yet, to this day, an indifferent world has made little attempt to grasp the significance of what was the greatest political provocation since the burning of the Reichstag._

_I have been trying to call attention to the facts behind the bombings since 1999. I consider this a moral obligation, because ignoring the fact that a man in charge of the world’s largest nuclear arsenal came to power through an act of terror is highly dangerous in itself._

_Russian human-rights defenders Sergei Yushenkov, Yuri Shchekochikhin, Anna Politkovskaya, and Alexander Litvinenko also worked to shed light on the apartment bombings. But all of them were murdered between 2003 and 2006. By 2007, when I testified before the House Foreign Affairs Committee about the bombings, I was the only person publicly accusing the regime of responsibility who had not been killed._

_The bombings terrorized Russia. The Russian authorities blamed Chechen rebels and thereby galvanized popular support for a new war in Chechnya. President Boris Yeltsin and his entourage were thoroughly hated for their role in the pillaging of the country. Putin, the head of the FSB, had just been named Yeltsin’s prime minister and achieved overnight popularity by vowing revenge against those who had murdered innocent civilians. He assumed direction of the war and, on the strength of initial successes, was elected president easily._

_Almost from the start, however, there were doubts about the provenance of the bombings, which could not have been better calculated to rescue the fortunes of Yeltsin and his entourage. Suspicions deepened when a fifth bomb was discovered in the basement of a building in Ryazan, a city southeast of Moscow, and those who had placed it turned out to be not Chechen terrorists but agents of the FSB. After these agents were arrested by local police, Nikolai Patrushev, the head of the FSB, said that the bomb had been a fake and that it had been planted in Ryazan as part of a training exercise. The bomb, however, tested positive for hexogen, the explosive used in the four successful apartment bombings. An investigation of the Ryazan incident was published in the newspaper Novaya Gazeta, and the public’s misgivings grew so widespread that the FSB agreed to a televised meeting between its top officials and residents of the affected building. The FSB in this way tried to demonstrate its openness, but the meeting was a disaster: It left the overwhelming impression that the incident in Ryazan was a failed political provocation._

_Three days after the broadcast, Putin was elected. Attention to the Ryazan incident faded, and it began to appear that the bombings would become just the latest in the long list of Russia’s unsolved crimes.

Vladimir Putin & 1999 Russian Apartment-House Bombings -- Was Putin Responsible? | National Review
_
Poor Putin. Always unfairly accused.


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Do you have an actual proof of your accusations or nothing but blah-blah?
> *
> You don't know what I'm talking about?
> Pretending ignorance, or ignorant for real?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I do know what you’re talking about: it’s called absurd. And also I know you don’t have anything to prove it.
> 
> Meanwhile let’s see what Stephen Cohen writes:
> 
> _…for nearly a decade, the American media has so demonized Putin that we’ve lost sight of him, and we’ve obscured the possibilities that are there and that he’s offered to enhance, through some kind of steady, calm cooperation, American national security.…_
> 
> _Putin on the other hand has been an exceedingly successful national leader of Russia in foreign policy for 13 years. _
> The Real Reason the US Media Hates Vladimir Putin - Daily Reckoning
> 
> For nearly 10 years, mainstream press reporting, editorials and op-ed articles have increasingly portrayed Putin as a czar-like “autocrat,” or alternatively a “KGB thug,” who imposed a “rollback of democratic reforms” under way in Russia when he succeeded Boris Yeltsin as president in 2000. He installed instead a “venal regime” that has permitted “corruptionism,” encouraged the assassination of a “growing number” of journalists and carried out the “killing of political opponents.” Not infrequently, Putin is compared to Saddam Hussein and even Stalin.
> 
> but *there is no evidence that any of these allegations against him are true,* or at least entirely true. Most seem to have originated with Putin’s personal enemies, particularly Yeltsin-era oligarchs
> 
> The exceptionally vilifying charge that Putin has been behind the killing of political opponents focuses mainly on two victims – the investigative journalist Anna Politkovskaya, who was shot to death in Moscow in 2006; and a reputed KGB defector, Aleksandr Litvinenko, who died of radiation poisoning in London, also in 2006.
> 
> *Not a shred of evidence or an element of logic points to Putin in either case.*
> 
> Are U.S. policymakers aware of Putin’s extraordinary assistance to the U.S. war effort in Afghanistan after 9/11, his crucial help in supplying NATO troops now there or his support for harsher sanctions against Iran? Do they know that for these and other “pro-American” concessions he is viewed by many Russian national security officials as an “appeaser?”
> Stop the pointless demonization of Putin
> 
> 
> *Unfortunately, we have a short memory* and have already forgotten that after 9/11 Putin was the first who called Bush and said: “That was terrible. How can we help you guys?”
> 
> Then US went to war in Afghanistan to destroy Taliban and Putin helped US to get the victory in this war with minimum losses more than anybody else, *even more than any NATO country.*
> 
> Putin also shared his intelligence data with USA and so on and on. He was even criticized in Russia, so for a while he looked more like being pro-American leader, not even a bit anti-American.
> Demonization of Putin is one of the biggest threats to American national security,Stephen Cohen.
> 
> And Putin warned CIA about Tsarnayev brothers who later were responsible for terror attack in Boston, but it’s not his fault CIA ignored his information.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Yes, I do know what you’re talking about: it’s called absurd. And also I know you don’t have anything to prove it.*
> 
> _All available evidence points to Putin’s complicity in the 1999 apartment-building bombings in Russia. Those who have tried to investigate have been killed off, one by one. _
> 
> 
> _I believe that Vladimir Putin came to power as the result of an act of terror committed against his own people. The evidence is overwhelming that the apartment-house bombings in 1999 in Moscow, Buinaksk, and Volgodonsk, which provided a pretext for the second Chechen war and catapulted Putin into the presidency, were carried out by the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB). Yet, to this day, an indifferent world has made little attempt to grasp the significance of what was the greatest political provocation since the burning of the Reichstag._
> 
> _I have been trying to call attention to the facts behind the bombings since 1999. I consider this a moral obligation, because ignoring the fact that a man in charge of the world’s largest nuclear arsenal came to power through an act of terror is highly dangerous in itself._
> 
> _Russian human-rights defenders Sergei Yushenkov, Yuri Shchekochikhin, Anna Politkovskaya, and Alexander Litvinenko also worked to shed light on the apartment bombings. But all of them were murdered between 2003 and 2006. By 2007, when I testified before the House Foreign Affairs Committee about the bombings, I was the only person publicly accusing the regime of responsibility who had not been killed._
> 
> _The bombings terrorized Russia. The Russian authorities blamed Chechen rebels and thereby galvanized popular support for a new war in Chechnya. President Boris Yeltsin and his entourage were thoroughly hated for their role in the pillaging of the country. Putin, the head of the FSB, had just been named Yeltsin’s prime minister and achieved overnight popularity by vowing revenge against those who had murdered innocent civilians. He assumed direction of the war and, on the strength of initial successes, was elected president easily._
> 
> _Almost from the start, however, there were doubts about the provenance of the bombings, which could not have been better calculated to rescue the fortunes of Yeltsin and his entourage. Suspicions deepened when a fifth bomb was discovered in the basement of a building in Ryazan, a city southeast of Moscow, and those who had placed it turned out to be not Chechen terrorists but agents of the FSB. After these agents were arrested by local police, Nikolai Patrushev, the head of the FSB, said that the bomb had been a fake and that it had been planted in Ryazan as part of a training exercise. The bomb, however, tested positive for hexogen, the explosive used in the four successful apartment bombings. An investigation of the Ryazan incident was published in the newspaper Novaya Gazeta, and the public’s misgivings grew so widespread that the FSB agreed to a televised meeting between its top officials and residents of the affected building. The FSB in this way tried to demonstrate its openness, but the meeting was a disaster: It left the overwhelming impression that the incident in Ryazan was a failed political provocation._
> 
> _Three days after the broadcast, Putin was elected. Attention to the Ryazan incident faded, and it began to appear that the bombings would become just the latest in the long list of Russia’s unsolved crimes.
> 
> Vladimir Putin & 1999 Russian Apartment-House Bombings -- Was Putin Responsible? | National Review
> _
> Poor Putin. Always unfairly accused.
Click to expand...

OK, then where IS that *All available evidence?
*
Except of "Putin was elected in 3 days" and some people were murdered. Nobody could murder them and blow up the building except for Putin? Nobody could kill those people but Putin? What a nonsense. Putin was already popular enough among Russians that's why he was elected.
Read what Cohen said (in my previous post, including Litvinenko mentioned in your article) : *Not a shred of evidence or an element of logic points to Putin in either case.*

You better tell me why Bush blew up the Twin Towers to invade Iraq. There are many articles about that on the Internet about that too. Shall we believe them too?

TheGuardian:
federal officials either participated in the attacks on the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon, or took no action to stop them, "because they wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East".
Who really blew up the twin towers?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Do you have an actual proof of your accusations or nothing but blah-blah?
> *
> You don't know what I'm talking about?
> Pretending ignorance, or ignorant for real?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I do know what you’re talking about: it’s called absurd. And also I know you don’t have anything to prove it.
> 
> Meanwhile let’s see what Stephen Cohen writes:
> 
> _…for nearly a decade, the American media has so demonized Putin that we’ve lost sight of him, and we’ve obscured the possibilities that are there and that he’s offered to enhance, through some kind of steady, calm cooperation, American national security.…_
> 
> _Putin on the other hand has been an exceedingly successful national leader of Russia in foreign policy for 13 years. _
> The Real Reason the US Media Hates Vladimir Putin - Daily Reckoning
> 
> For nearly 10 years, mainstream press reporting, editorials and op-ed articles have increasingly portrayed Putin as a czar-like “autocrat,” or alternatively a “KGB thug,” who imposed a “rollback of democratic reforms” under way in Russia when he succeeded Boris Yeltsin as president in 2000. He installed instead a “venal regime” that has permitted “corruptionism,” encouraged the assassination of a “growing number” of journalists and carried out the “killing of political opponents.” Not infrequently, Putin is compared to Saddam Hussein and even Stalin.
> 
> but *there is no evidence that any of these allegations against him are true,* or at least entirely true. Most seem to have originated with Putin’s personal enemies, particularly Yeltsin-era oligarchs
> 
> The exceptionally vilifying charge that Putin has been behind the killing of political opponents focuses mainly on two victims – the investigative journalist Anna Politkovskaya, who was shot to death in Moscow in 2006; and a reputed KGB defector, Aleksandr Litvinenko, who died of radiation poisoning in London, also in 2006.
> 
> *Not a shred of evidence or an element of logic points to Putin in either case.*
> 
> Are U.S. policymakers aware of Putin’s extraordinary assistance to the U.S. war effort in Afghanistan after 9/11, his crucial help in supplying NATO troops now there or his support for harsher sanctions against Iran? Do they know that for these and other “pro-American” concessions he is viewed by many Russian national security officials as an “appeaser?”
> Stop the pointless demonization of Putin
> 
> 
> *Unfortunately, we have a short memory* and have already forgotten that after 9/11 Putin was the first who called Bush and said: “That was terrible. How can we help you guys?”
> 
> Then US went to war in Afghanistan to destroy Taliban and Putin helped US to get the victory in this war with minimum losses more than anybody else, *even more than any NATO country.*
> 
> Putin also shared his intelligence data with USA and so on and on. He was even criticized in Russia, so for a while he looked more like being pro-American leader, not even a bit anti-American.
> Demonization of Putin is one of the biggest threats to American national security,Stephen Cohen.
> 
> And Putin warned CIA about Tsarnayev brothers who later were responsible for terror attack in Boston, but it’s not his fault CIA ignored his information.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Yes, I do know what you’re talking about: it’s called absurd. And also I know you don’t have anything to prove it.*
> 
> _All available evidence points to Putin’s complicity in the 1999 apartment-building bombings in Russia. Those who have tried to investigate have been killed off, one by one. _
> 
> 
> _I believe that Vladimir Putin came to power as the result of an act of terror committed against his own people. The evidence is overwhelming that the apartment-house bombings in 1999 in Moscow, Buinaksk, and Volgodonsk, which provided a pretext for the second Chechen war and catapulted Putin into the presidency, were carried out by the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB). Yet, to this day, an indifferent world has made little attempt to grasp the significance of what was the greatest political provocation since the burning of the Reichstag._
> 
> _I have been trying to call attention to the facts behind the bombings since 1999. I consider this a moral obligation, because ignoring the fact that a man in charge of the world’s largest nuclear arsenal came to power through an act of terror is highly dangerous in itself._
> 
> _Russian human-rights defenders Sergei Yushenkov, Yuri Shchekochikhin, Anna Politkovskaya, and Alexander Litvinenko also worked to shed light on the apartment bombings. But all of them were murdered between 2003 and 2006. By 2007, when I testified before the House Foreign Affairs Committee about the bombings, I was the only person publicly accusing the regime of responsibility who had not been killed._
> 
> _The bombings terrorized Russia. The Russian authorities blamed Chechen rebels and thereby galvanized popular support for a new war in Chechnya. President Boris Yeltsin and his entourage were thoroughly hated for their role in the pillaging of the country. Putin, the head of the FSB, had just been named Yeltsin’s prime minister and achieved overnight popularity by vowing revenge against those who had murdered innocent civilians. He assumed direction of the war and, on the strength of initial successes, was elected president easily._
> 
> _Almost from the start, however, there were doubts about the provenance of the bombings, which could not have been better calculated to rescue the fortunes of Yeltsin and his entourage. Suspicions deepened when a fifth bomb was discovered in the basement of a building in Ryazan, a city southeast of Moscow, and those who had placed it turned out to be not Chechen terrorists but agents of the FSB. After these agents were arrested by local police, Nikolai Patrushev, the head of the FSB, said that the bomb had been a fake and that it had been planted in Ryazan as part of a training exercise. The bomb, however, tested positive for hexogen, the explosive used in the four successful apartment bombings. An investigation of the Ryazan incident was published in the newspaper Novaya Gazeta, and the public’s misgivings grew so widespread that the FSB agreed to a televised meeting between its top officials and residents of the affected building. The FSB in this way tried to demonstrate its openness, but the meeting was a disaster: It left the overwhelming impression that the incident in Ryazan was a failed political provocation._
> 
> _Three days after the broadcast, Putin was elected. Attention to the Ryazan incident faded, and it began to appear that the bombings would become just the latest in the long list of Russia’s unsolved crimes.
> 
> Vladimir Putin & 1999 Russian Apartment-House Bombings -- Was Putin Responsible? | National Review
> _
> Poor Putin. Always unfairly accused.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, then where IS that *All available evidence?
> *
> Except of "Putin was elected in 3 days" and some people were murdered. Nobody could murder them and blow up the building except for Putin? Nobody could kill those people but Putin? What a nonsense. Putin was already popular enough among Russians that's why he was elected.
> Read what Cohen said (in my previous post, including Litvinenko mentioned in your article) : *Not a shred of evidence or an element of logic points to Putin in either case.*
> 
> You better tell me why Bush blew up the Twin Towers to invade Iraq. There are many articles about that on the Internet about that too. Shall we believe them too?
> 
> TheGuardian:
> federal officials either participated in the attacks on the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon, or took no action to stop them, "because they wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East".
> Who really blew up the twin towers?
Click to expand...


_OK, then where IS that *All available evidence?*_

Catching the FSB agents planting the bomb wasn't enough for you? LOL!

Poor pooty Poot, eh comrade?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Do you have an actual proof of your accusations or nothing but blah-blah?
> *
> You don't know what I'm talking about?
> Pretending ignorance, or ignorant for real?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I do know what you’re talking about: it’s called absurd. And also I know you don’t have anything to prove it.
> 
> Meanwhile let’s see what Stephen Cohen writes:
> 
> _…for nearly a decade, the American media has so demonized Putin that we’ve lost sight of him, and we’ve obscured the possibilities that are there and that he’s offered to enhance, through some kind of steady, calm cooperation, American national security.…_
> 
> _Putin on the other hand has been an exceedingly successful national leader of Russia in foreign policy for 13 years. _
> The Real Reason the US Media Hates Vladimir Putin - Daily Reckoning
> 
> For nearly 10 years, mainstream press reporting, editorials and op-ed articles have increasingly portrayed Putin as a czar-like “autocrat,” or alternatively a “KGB thug,” who imposed a “rollback of democratic reforms” under way in Russia when he succeeded Boris Yeltsin as president in 2000. He installed instead a “venal regime” that has permitted “corruptionism,” encouraged the assassination of a “growing number” of journalists and carried out the “killing of political opponents.” Not infrequently, Putin is compared to Saddam Hussein and even Stalin.
> 
> but *there is no evidence that any of these allegations against him are true,* or at least entirely true. Most seem to have originated with Putin’s personal enemies, particularly Yeltsin-era oligarchs
> 
> The exceptionally vilifying charge that Putin has been behind the killing of political opponents focuses mainly on two victims – the investigative journalist Anna Politkovskaya, who was shot to death in Moscow in 2006; and a reputed KGB defector, Aleksandr Litvinenko, who died of radiation poisoning in London, also in 2006.
> 
> *Not a shred of evidence or an element of logic points to Putin in either case.*
> 
> Are U.S. policymakers aware of Putin’s extraordinary assistance to the U.S. war effort in Afghanistan after 9/11, his crucial help in supplying NATO troops now there or his support for harsher sanctions against Iran? Do they know that for these and other “pro-American” concessions he is viewed by many Russian national security officials as an “appeaser?”
> Stop the pointless demonization of Putin
> 
> 
> *Unfortunately, we have a short memory* and have already forgotten that after 9/11 Putin was the first who called Bush and said: “That was terrible. How can we help you guys?”
> 
> Then US went to war in Afghanistan to destroy Taliban and Putin helped US to get the victory in this war with minimum losses more than anybody else, *even more than any NATO country.*
> 
> Putin also shared his intelligence data with USA and so on and on. He was even criticized in Russia, so for a while he looked more like being pro-American leader, not even a bit anti-American.
> Demonization of Putin is one of the biggest threats to American national security,Stephen Cohen.
> 
> And Putin warned CIA about Tsarnayev brothers who later were responsible for terror attack in Boston, but it’s not his fault CIA ignored his information.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Yes, I do know what you’re talking about: it’s called absurd. And also I know you don’t have anything to prove it.*
> 
> _All available evidence points to Putin’s complicity in the 1999 apartment-building bombings in Russia. Those who have tried to investigate have been killed off, one by one. _
> 
> 
> _I believe that Vladimir Putin came to power as the result of an act of terror committed against his own people. The evidence is overwhelming that the apartment-house bombings in 1999 in Moscow, Buinaksk, and Volgodonsk, which provided a pretext for the second Chechen war and catapulted Putin into the presidency, were carried out by the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB). Yet, to this day, an indifferent world has made little attempt to grasp the significance of what was the greatest political provocation since the burning of the Reichstag._
> 
> _I have been trying to call attention to the facts behind the bombings since 1999. I consider this a moral obligation, because ignoring the fact that a man in charge of the world’s largest nuclear arsenal came to power through an act of terror is highly dangerous in itself._
> 
> _Russian human-rights defenders Sergei Yushenkov, Yuri Shchekochikhin, Anna Politkovskaya, and Alexander Litvinenko also worked to shed light on the apartment bombings. But all of them were murdered between 2003 and 2006. By 2007, when I testified before the House Foreign Affairs Committee about the bombings, I was the only person publicly accusing the regime of responsibility who had not been killed._
> 
> _The bombings terrorized Russia. The Russian authorities blamed Chechen rebels and thereby galvanized popular support for a new war in Chechnya. President Boris Yeltsin and his entourage were thoroughly hated for their role in the pillaging of the country. Putin, the head of the FSB, had just been named Yeltsin’s prime minister and achieved overnight popularity by vowing revenge against those who had murdered innocent civilians. He assumed direction of the war and, on the strength of initial successes, was elected president easily._
> 
> _Almost from the start, however, there were doubts about the provenance of the bombings, which could not have been better calculated to rescue the fortunes of Yeltsin and his entourage. Suspicions deepened when a fifth bomb was discovered in the basement of a building in Ryazan, a city southeast of Moscow, and those who had placed it turned out to be not Chechen terrorists but agents of the FSB. After these agents were arrested by local police, Nikolai Patrushev, the head of the FSB, said that the bomb had been a fake and that it had been planted in Ryazan as part of a training exercise. The bomb, however, tested positive for hexogen, the explosive used in the four successful apartment bombings. An investigation of the Ryazan incident was published in the newspaper Novaya Gazeta, and the public’s misgivings grew so widespread that the FSB agreed to a televised meeting between its top officials and residents of the affected building. The FSB in this way tried to demonstrate its openness, but the meeting was a disaster: It left the overwhelming impression that the incident in Ryazan was a failed political provocation._
> 
> _Three days after the broadcast, Putin was elected. Attention to the Ryazan incident faded, and it began to appear that the bombings would become just the latest in the long list of Russia’s unsolved crimes.
> 
> Vladimir Putin & 1999 Russian Apartment-House Bombings -- Was Putin Responsible? | National Review
> _
> Poor Putin. Always unfairly accused.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, then where IS that *All available evidence?
> *
> Except of "Putin was elected in 3 days" and some people were murdered. Nobody could murder them and blow up the building except for Putin? Nobody could kill those people but Putin? What a nonsense. Putin was already popular enough among Russians that's why he was elected.
> Read what Cohen said (in my previous post, including Litvinenko mentioned in your article) : *Not a shred of evidence or an element of logic points to Putin in either case.*
> 
> You better tell me why Bush blew up the Twin Towers to invade Iraq. There are many articles about that on the Internet about that too. Shall we believe them too?
> 
> TheGuardian:
> federal officials either participated in the attacks on the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon, or took no action to stop them, "because they wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East".
> Who really blew up the twin towers?
Click to expand...


_but *there is no evidence that any of these allegations against him are true,* or at least entirely true. _

His political opponents just coincidentally all die. Weird.
It's almost like they're dying, on purpose, just to make poor, sweet, innocent Putin look bad.


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> _OK, then where IS that *All available evidence?*_
> 
> Catching the FSB agents planting the bomb wasn't enough for you? LOL!
> 
> Poor pooty Poot, eh comrade?


Who caught those FSB agents? Where is the evidence? Just hateful blah-blah. Read Cohen again: *Not a shred of evidence or an element of logic points to Putin in either case. *And that can be response to your other post. You are stuck in your hateful world carefully created for you by not only Putin's enemies but also the enemies of your own country and your own president.

Meanwhile there are several key statements in the article which contradict  facts,  logic and common sense. Here are the facts:

In 1999 Putin was a PM and Yeltsin was a president. The next elections were scheduled for March, while the terror attacks have happened in September 1999, just within a month after Putin became a PM (4+ months before the elections, not 3 days!).
If I  want to be a president I would rather try to show my electorate I can keep the country safe and blowing up the apartments can only hurt me, but will NOT help me to become a president (at least in Russia). Another reason to believe it was done by radical Muslims since Putin’s first visit was to Chechnya in August 1999 trying to clean that Muslim mess.
The population of both cities where the apartments were blown up is about 230 hundred. The population of Russia is more than 144 million. How 230 hundred (including the children who don’t vote) can affect the result of elections?
Putin was elected a president  4 times, not only after those apartments were blown up.

On 9 August 1999, Vladimir Putin was appointed one of three First Deputy Prime Ministers, by President Boris Yeltsin.

On 31 December 1999, Yeltsin unexpectedly resigned and, according to the constitution, Putin became Acting President of the Russian Federation.

 Yeltsin's resignation resulted in the Presidential elections being held within three months, on 26 March 2000; Putin won in the first round with 53% of the vote

On 14 March 2004, Putin was elected to the presidency for a second term, receiving 71% of the vote

On 4 March 2012, Putin won the 2012 Russian presidential elections in the first round, with 63.6% of the vote.

On 18 March 2018, Putin won the 2018 presidential election in the first round, with 76% of the vote
Political career of Vladimir Putin - Wikipedia


*Buynaksk *is a town in the Republic of Dagestan, Population: 62,623
Buynaksk - Wikipedia
*Volgodonsk *is a city in Rostov Oblast, Population: 170,841
Volgodonsk - Wikipedia
the population of Russia is 144,438,554 excluding Crimea and Sevastopol
Demographics of Russia - Wikipedia

P.S. Will you ever comment blowing Twin Towers?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> _OK, then where IS that *All available evidence?*_
> 
> Catching the FSB agents planting the bomb wasn't enough for you? LOL!
> 
> Poor pooty Poot, eh comrade?
> 
> 
> 
> Who caught those FSB agents? Where is the evidence? Just hateful blah-blah. Read Cohen again: *Not a shred of evidence or an element of logic points to Putin in either case. *And that can be response to your other post. You are stuck in your hateful world carefully created for you by not only Putin's enemies but also the enemies of your own country and your own president.
> 
> Meanwhile there are several key statements in the article which contradict  facts,  logic and common sense. Here are the facts:
> 
> In 1999 Putin was a PM and Yeltsin was a president. The next elections were scheduled for March, while the terror attacks have happened in September 1999, just within a month after Putin became a PM (4+ months before the elections, not 3 days!).
> If I  want to be a president I would rather try to show my electorate I can keep the country safe and blowing up the apartments can only hurt me, but will NOT help me to become a president (at least in Russia). Another reason to believe it was done by radical Muslims since Putin’s first visit was to Chechnya in August 1999 trying to clean that Muslim mess.
> The population of both cities where the apartments were blown up is about 230 hundred. The population of Russia is more than 144 million. How 230 hundred (including the children who don’t vote) can affect the result of elections?
> Putin was elected a president  4 times, not only after those apartments were blown up.
> 
> On 9 August 1999, Vladimir Putin was appointed one of three First Deputy Prime Ministers, by President Boris Yeltsin.
> 
> On 31 December 1999, Yeltsin unexpectedly resigned and, according to the constitution, Putin became Acting President of the Russian Federation.
> 
> Yeltsin's resignation resulted in the Presidential elections being held within three months, on 26 March 2000; Putin won in the first round with 53% of the vote
> 
> On 14 March 2004, Putin was elected to the presidency for a second term, receiving 71% of the vote
> 
> On 4 March 2012, Putin won the 2012 Russian presidential elections in the first round, with 63.6% of the vote.
> 
> On 18 March 2018, Putin won the 2018 presidential election in the first round, with 76% of the vote
> Political career of Vladimir Putin - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> *Buynaksk *is a town in the Republic of Dagestan, Population: 62,623
> Buynaksk - Wikipedia
> *Volgodonsk *is a city in Rostov Oblast, Population: 170,841
> Volgodonsk - Wikipedia
> the population of Russia is 144,438,554 excluding Crimea and Sevastopol
> Demographics of Russia - Wikipedia
> 
> P.S. Will you ever comment blowing Twin Towers?
Click to expand...


*Who caught those FSB agents? Where is the evidence?*

_After these agents were arrested by local police, Nikolai Patrushev, the head of the FSB, said that the bomb had been a fake and that it had been planted in Ryazan as part of a training exercise. The bomb, however, tested positive for hexogen, the explosive used in the four successful apartment bombings. An investigation of the Ryazan incident was published in the newspaper Novaya Gazeta, and the public’s misgivings grew so widespread that the FSB agreed to a televised meeting between its top officials and residents of the affected building. The FSB in this way tried to demonstrate its openness, but the meeting was a disaster: It left the overwhelming impression that the incident in Ryazan was a failed political provocation._

*If I  want to be a president I would rather try to show my electorate I can keep the country safe and blowing up the apartments can only hurt me, but will NOT help me to become a president *

"Elect me, I'll make those Chechens pay for blowing up our buildings and killing our people"


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> _OK, then where IS that *All available evidence?*_
> 
> Catching the FSB agents planting the bomb wasn't enough for you? LOL!
> 
> Poor pooty Poot, eh comrade?
> 
> 
> 
> Who caught those FSB agents? Where is the evidence? Just hateful blah-blah. Read Cohen again: *Not a shred of evidence or an element of logic points to Putin in either case. *And that can be response to your other post. You are stuck in your hateful world carefully created for you by not only Putin's enemies but also the enemies of your own country and your own president.
> 
> Meanwhile there are several key statements in the article which contradict  facts,  logic and common sense. Here are the facts:
> 
> In 1999 Putin was a PM and Yeltsin was a president. The next elections were scheduled for March, while the terror attacks have happened in September 1999, just within a month after Putin became a PM (4+ months before the elections, not 3 days!).
> If I  want to be a president I would rather try to show my electorate I can keep the country safe and blowing up the apartments can only hurt me, but will NOT help me to become a president (at least in Russia). Another reason to believe it was done by radical Muslims since Putin’s first visit was to Chechnya in August 1999 trying to clean that Muslim mess.
> The population of both cities where the apartments were blown up is about 230 hundred. The population of Russia is more than 144 million. How 230 hundred (including the children who don’t vote) can affect the result of elections?
> Putin was elected a president  4 times, not only after those apartments were blown up.
> 
> On 9 August 1999, Vladimir Putin was appointed one of three First Deputy Prime Ministers, by President Boris Yeltsin.
> 
> On 31 December 1999, Yeltsin unexpectedly resigned and, according to the constitution, Putin became Acting President of the Russian Federation.
> 
> Yeltsin's resignation resulted in the Presidential elections being held within three months, on 26 March 2000; Putin won in the first round with 53% of the vote
> 
> On 14 March 2004, Putin was elected to the presidency for a second term, receiving 71% of the vote
> 
> On 4 March 2012, Putin won the 2012 Russian presidential elections in the first round, with 63.6% of the vote.
> 
> On 18 March 2018, Putin won the 2018 presidential election in the first round, with 76% of the vote
> Political career of Vladimir Putin - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> *Buynaksk *is a town in the Republic of Dagestan, Population: 62,623
> Buynaksk - Wikipedia
> *Volgodonsk *is a city in Rostov Oblast, Population: 170,841
> Volgodonsk - Wikipedia
> the population of Russia is 144,438,554 excluding Crimea and Sevastopol
> Demographics of Russia - Wikipedia
> 
> P.S. Will you ever comment blowing Twin Towers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Who caught those FSB agents? Where is the evidence?*
> 
> _After these agents were arrested by local police, Nikolai Patrushev, the head of the FSB, said that the bomb had been a fake and that it had been planted in Ryazan as part of a training exercise. The bomb, however, tested positive for hexogen, the explosive used in the four successful apartment bombings. An investigation of the Ryazan incident was published in the newspaper Novaya Gazeta, and the public’s misgivings grew so widespread that the FSB agreed to a televised meeting between its top officials and residents of the affected building. The FSB in this way tried to demonstrate its openness, but the meeting was a disaster: It left the overwhelming impression that the incident in Ryazan was a failed political provocation._
> 
> *If I  want to be a president I would rather try to show my electorate I can keep the country safe and blowing up the apartments can only hurt me, but will NOT help me to become a president *
> 
> "Elect me, I'll make those Chechens pay for blowing up our buildings and killing our people"
Click to expand...

If somebody write something on the Internet i not enough to be considered an evidence. Otherwise Trump is a traitor, an idiot and a Putin's asset.

*The President Is A Traitor*
www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-traitor-anthony-scaramucci-cnn_n_5d97d8dae4b0fc935eda2dd3

The Traitors Among Us

Amazon.com: trump is an idiot

If you Google the word “idiot” the image of Donald Trump comes up.

... and tons of articles like that. Do you believe them? I don't think so. What makes you believe articles about Putin then?

P.S. When shall we see your comments on articles about blowing Twin Towers to invade Iraq? There are many of them on the Internet.

Shall we believe them as well?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> _OK, then where IS that *All available evidence?*_
> 
> Catching the FSB agents planting the bomb wasn't enough for you? LOL!
> 
> Poor pooty Poot, eh comrade?
> 
> 
> 
> Who caught those FSB agents? Where is the evidence? Just hateful blah-blah. Read Cohen again: *Not a shred of evidence or an element of logic points to Putin in either case. *And that can be response to your other post. You are stuck in your hateful world carefully created for you by not only Putin's enemies but also the enemies of your own country and your own president.
> 
> Meanwhile there are several key statements in the article which contradict  facts,  logic and common sense. Here are the facts:
> 
> In 1999 Putin was a PM and Yeltsin was a president. The next elections were scheduled for March, while the terror attacks have happened in September 1999, just within a month after Putin became a PM (4+ months before the elections, not 3 days!).
> If I  want to be a president I would rather try to show my electorate I can keep the country safe and blowing up the apartments can only hurt me, but will NOT help me to become a president (at least in Russia). Another reason to believe it was done by radical Muslims since Putin’s first visit was to Chechnya in August 1999 trying to clean that Muslim mess.
> The population of both cities where the apartments were blown up is about 230 hundred. The population of Russia is more than 144 million. How 230 hundred (including the children who don’t vote) can affect the result of elections?
> Putin was elected a president  4 times, not only after those apartments were blown up.
> 
> On 9 August 1999, Vladimir Putin was appointed one of three First Deputy Prime Ministers, by President Boris Yeltsin.
> 
> On 31 December 1999, Yeltsin unexpectedly resigned and, according to the constitution, Putin became Acting President of the Russian Federation.
> 
> Yeltsin's resignation resulted in the Presidential elections being held within three months, on 26 March 2000; Putin won in the first round with 53% of the vote
> 
> On 14 March 2004, Putin was elected to the presidency for a second term, receiving 71% of the vote
> 
> On 4 March 2012, Putin won the 2012 Russian presidential elections in the first round, with 63.6% of the vote.
> 
> On 18 March 2018, Putin won the 2018 presidential election in the first round, with 76% of the vote
> Political career of Vladimir Putin - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> *Buynaksk *is a town in the Republic of Dagestan, Population: 62,623
> Buynaksk - Wikipedia
> *Volgodonsk *is a city in Rostov Oblast, Population: 170,841
> Volgodonsk - Wikipedia
> the population of Russia is 144,438,554 excluding Crimea and Sevastopol
> Demographics of Russia - Wikipedia
> 
> P.S. Will you ever comment blowing Twin Towers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Who caught those FSB agents? Where is the evidence?*
> 
> _After these agents were arrested by local police, Nikolai Patrushev, the head of the FSB, said that the bomb had been a fake and that it had been planted in Ryazan as part of a training exercise. The bomb, however, tested positive for hexogen, the explosive used in the four successful apartment bombings. An investigation of the Ryazan incident was published in the newspaper Novaya Gazeta, and the public’s misgivings grew so widespread that the FSB agreed to a televised meeting between its top officials and residents of the affected building. The FSB in this way tried to demonstrate its openness, but the meeting was a disaster: It left the overwhelming impression that the incident in Ryazan was a failed political provocation._
> 
> *If I  want to be a president I would rather try to show my electorate I can keep the country safe and blowing up the apartments can only hurt me, but will NOT help me to become a president *
> 
> "Elect me, I'll make those Chechens pay for blowing up our buildings and killing our people"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If somebody write something on the Internet i not enough to be considered an evidence. Otherwise Trump is a traitor, an idiot and a Putin's asset.
> 
> *The President Is A Traitor*
> www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-traitor-anthony-scaramucci-cnn_n_5d97d8dae4b0fc935eda2dd3
> 
> The Traitors Among Us
> 
> Amazon.com: trump is an idiot
> 
> If you Google the word “idiot” the image of Donald Trump comes up.
> 
> ... and tons of articles like that. Do you believe them? I don't think so. What makes you believe articles about Putin then?
> 
> P.S. When shall we see your comments on articles about blowing Twin Towers to invade Iraq? There are many of them on the Internet.
> 
> Shall we believe them as well?
Click to expand...


Don't put any polonium in my tea...…...


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Don't put any polonium in my tea...…...


And that's your only comment? That's what I thought. Stay in your hateful hole rejecting the truth. Just like liberals, they hate Russia too. But guess what: your president does NOT.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, a referenda can give the best answer what people think. But it hasn't been held. All we have now is opinion polls.
> 
> About so called Crimean referendum. Personally I believe that majority of Crimeans would vote for becoming a part of Russia. But about the exact numbers I can't say. I don't believe Putin, his cronies and their referendum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to the polls Mrs. Clinton is a president of USA and the NY morning newspapers the day after elections had her pictures and headlines “Congratulations. Madame President!” And we all know what happened.
> 
> BTW, replying your previous post, I’d like to post what Stephen Cohen thinks about the coup in “independent” Ukraine.
> 
> _The American media coverage of Ukraine is wrong and inflammatory from beginning to end. _
> 
> _Why did the European Union tell the democratically elected president of such a profoundly divided country, two Ukraines, in November, that he must decide either/or, you’re either with Europe, or you’re with Russia? That’s a provocation, and that’s where this began. And here’s what’s not reported._
> 
> Cohen referred to the leaked conversation between the top State Department official Victoria Nuland and the US ambassador in Kiev, in which she dismissed the EU with the F-word, as further proof that the *US wants a new anti-Russian Ukrainian government and is prepared to participate in a coup to achieve that end*:
> 
> _Stop and think how that story was covered in the American media. The first lead was oh my gosh, she said F the EU. The second lead was who leaked this story? Oh, it must’ve been the Russians. Look at those horrible Russians. But that wasn’t the story. _*The story is what the top State Department official said to the American ambassador in Kiev.*
> 
> _*And what she said is you and I are empowered to form a new Ukrainian government. And they’re actually discussing who should be in this government. And the new government is going to get rid of the democratically elected president of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych.*_
> 
> _Now we may hate Yanukovych. He may be a rat of the first magnitude. But in plain language, they were plotting a coup d’etat against a democratically elected president. And we know that in countries with fragile democratic traditions, when you overthrow an elected president, you are setting back democracy maybe decades [emphasis added]._
> 
> Details at:
> The Real Reason the US Media Hates Vladimir Putin - Daily Reckoning
Click to expand...

I never said that the polls are ideal source of information. But we have only them about this matter. 

Likewise, you can't claim that majority of Ukraine wanted integration with Russia.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Likewise, you can't claim that majority of Ukraine wanted integration with Russia.


I don't know about the majority of Ukraine (Ukrainian officials never had balls to hold any referendum to get the real numbers), But the majority of Eastern Ukraine - for sure.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't put any polonium in my tea...…...
> 
> 
> 
> And that's your only comment? That's what I thought. Stay in your hateful hole rejecting the truth. Just like liberals, they hate Russia too. But guess what: your president does NOT.
Click to expand...


*And that's your only comment? *

You didn't like the info about the FSB planting a bomb......did you?

What about Garry Kasparov? Is he just another know-nothing American who hates Putin for no reason?


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Likewise, you can't claim that majority of Ukraine wanted integration with Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know about the majority of Ukraine (Ukrainian officials never had balls to hold any referendum to get the real numbers), But the majority of Eastern Ukraine - for sure.
Click to expand...

Actually, it is not about the balls. The reason of not holding the referendum is clear. 

The referendum should be held on the entire territory of Ukraine. And the result should be taken in consideration on all-Ukrainian scale. And all regions of Ukraine should accept this and agree with the majority. 

As was the case with the referendum in the UK. There were regions which voted to remain but that didn't mean that they automatically break with the UK and stay in the EU. 

The Ukrainian authorities rightfully decided that the results in some regions could be used by some forces to try to divide Ukraine.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Likewise, you can't claim that majority of Ukraine wanted integration with Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know about the majority of Ukraine (Ukrainian officials never had balls to hold any referendum to get the real numbers), But the majority of Eastern Ukraine - for sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, it is not about the balls. The reason of not holding the referendum is clear.
> 
> The referendum should be held on the entire territory of Ukraine. And the result should be taken in consideration on all-Ukrainian scale. And all regions of Ukraine should accept this and agree with the majority.
> 
> As was the case with the referendum in the UK. There were regions which voted to remain but that didn't mean that they automatically break with the UK and stay in the EU.
> 
> The Ukrainian authorities rightfully decided that the results in some regions could be used by some forces to try to divide Ukraine.
Click to expand...

Yes but too late now, Should have been done before the coup in 2914 when Crimea and Donbass were still in Ukraine.

Besides, with all those Nazis controlling everything (even the president's will to cooperate with the people in Donbass) it's not possible.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Likewise, you can't claim that majority of Ukraine wanted integration with Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know about the majority of Ukraine (Ukrainian officials never had balls to hold any referendum to get the real numbers), But the majority of Eastern Ukraine - for sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, it is not about the balls. The reason of not holding the referendum is clear.
> 
> The referendum should be held on the entire territory of Ukraine. And the result should be taken in consideration on all-Ukrainian scale. And all regions of Ukraine should accept this and agree with the majority.
> 
> As was the case with the referendum in the UK. There were regions which voted to remain but that didn't mean that they automatically break with the UK and stay in the EU.
> 
> The Ukrainian authorities rightfully decided that the results in some regions could be used by some forces to try to divide Ukraine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes but too late now, Should have been done before the coup in 2914 when Crimea and Donbass were still in Ukraine.
> 
> Besides, with all those Nazis controlling everything (even the president's will to cooperate with the people in Donbass) it's not possible.
Click to expand...


You have a list of the 5 biggest differences between Nazis and Commies?


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Likewise, you can't claim that majority of Ukraine wanted integration with Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know about the majority of Ukraine (Ukrainian officials never had balls to hold any referendum to get the real numbers), But the majority of Eastern Ukraine - for sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, it is not about the balls. The reason of not holding the referendum is clear.
> 
> The referendum should be held on the entire territory of Ukraine. And the result should be taken in consideration on all-Ukrainian scale. And all regions of Ukraine should accept this and agree with the majority.
> 
> As was the case with the referendum in the UK. There were regions which voted to remain but that didn't mean that they automatically break with the UK and stay in the EU.
> 
> The Ukrainian authorities rightfully decided that the results in some regions could be used by some forces to try to divide Ukraine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes but too late now, Should have been done before the coup in 2914 when Crimea and Donbass were still in Ukraine.
> 
> Besides, with all those Nazis controlling everything (even the president's will to cooperate with the people in Donbass) it's not possible.
Click to expand...

It is a question to the Yanukovich government. 

About 'Nazis controlling everything' is bullshit, as usual.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

B. Kidd said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B. Kidd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B. Kidd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Azov Battalion has been around before and after the Maiden.
> Who do you think sniped all those protesters?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Confession of snipers, who killed both police and protestors in Kiev 2014 in the new Italian film
> 
> "Ukraine-the hidden truth" an Italian film about snipers on the Maidan in Ukraine
> 
> ^English subtitles
> 
> Long story of the Italian documentary short:
> 
> Feb 20, 2014: a group of unknown snipers starts shooting both at police and protesters, pretty soon almost 80 killed.. Until today *the official version is about slaughter conducted by order of Kremlin-backed government.*
> 
> Minister of foreign affairs of Estonia: evidence shows that the people who were killed by snipers from both sides (policemen and people from the street) that they were *the same snipers who killed the people from both sides. *It’s not Yanuckovitch who stands behind snipers but somebody from the new coalition.
> 
> They were *Georgian citizens who were among provokers* acting on the protester’s side. One of them says: “The story starts in Tbilisi and there are many personalities who are hidden behind the scenes, first of them is ex-president of Georgia Mikhail Saakashvili. He’s the main hero of the short bloody war against Russia in 2008. The second was his military adviser Mamuka Mamulashvili. Afterwards *he becomes the leader of “Georgian Legion”, a Georgian volunteer group to combat against pro-Russian protesters in Donbass. *This group was organized by Saakashvili, he gave $1000, promised to give $1500 later to each group member and ordered to go to Kiev.
> 
> Snipers:
> 
> “We had to make provocations, to provoke policemen to turn against the crowd and to attack the people. Mamulashvili presented an *American military guy* [Brian Christopher Boyenger, a sniper from 101 Airborne division USA] and told us *he would be our instructor*. After Maidan he went to Donbass where he would fight in “Georgian Legion”,* he was the one who gave them orders *”
> 
> The first suspicions that the protestors were using small arms were connected to Sergey Pashinsky, who was one of Maidan leaders and later became a deputy of Ukrainian parliament.
> 
> ” In February one could see Parubiy, Pashinsky and Brian in hotel “Ukraine” very often and they were bringing bags with weapons (Makarov pistols, Kalashnikovs automatic rifles, carabines and packs of cartridges. Pashinsky said: *“We have to start shooting, we can’t allow early presidential elections”*. We had to shoot to make more chaos, mess and panic. *There were two Lithuanians in our group too.”*
> 
> “Pashinsky told us to take our things and to follow him to Conservatory building, the group was masked. *We were ordered to shoot both policemen (“Berkut”) and protesters without making any difference.* Only lated I realized: we were used, it was a set up.”
> 
> While there was shooting at the crowd from “Ukraine” hotel, the protesters were trying to hide inside the hotel. Thus the victims were next to their killers.
> 
> At the end of the documentary those snipers told why they decided to tell about this now, not 3 years ago.
> 
> Confession of snipers, who killed both police and protestors in Kiev 2014 in the new Italian film
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you!
> American Muppets media screens out the truth when it's not in American Gov't interests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> amen to that. btw,what happened to you in the sports section? not that i dont blame you since the NFL is as corrupt as our government is and baseball is aa joke with small market teams unable to compete to go to playoffs anymore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I got tired of picking winners for ingrates!
> 
> BTW, Rams fans are *stuck *with Goff as their QB!
Click to expand...


the only bright spot about it is he IS better than wentz who everybody thought they would take.wentz has been a MAJOR bust in THE nfl.lol


----------



## Bleipriester

Stratford57 said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> But Trump is President, he can decide.
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently, he can't. Constantly under some idiotic attacks from Dems.
> 
> Russian political talk show “The Great Game” (already  interpreted into English) Minute 36
> The Great Game. 29.09.2019
> 
> Alexey Pushkov: Dems’ goal is to topple Trump. These past two years they’ve been in a non-stop hysteria. They started up with finding a porn star and when that didn’t work they decided to look into allegations of collusions with Russia. They have been investigating that for 2 years, 32.4 million dollars have been spent on the Mueller investigation and at the end Mueller said there was not any sufficient evidence to support the allegation that Trump has colluded with Russia. So, the collusion accusation was off the mark. The narrative that Russia meddled in US election has not gone away but it  is getting old, doesn’t touch the nerve any more, it’s not considered to be enough bate any more to catch such a big fish as Trump, he’s off this hook already. Only Hillary Clinton doesn’t seem to leave this topic alone.
> 
> So, they invented a new theory. And they appeared to have found that pretext initiating impeachment inquiry, nothing will come out of it of course. There is no doubt the Senate will not give Trump away.
> 
> Why are the Democrats are doing what they are doing then? By playing this card they seek to weaken Trump before the elections: the voters will “know” that the president has done something and nobody will look at the substance of the claim and the claim is completely unfounded. Moreover, f Trump chooses the right line of conduct (and I think he might). It’s Biden who will lose the most.
> 
> Aleksey Pushkov - Wikipedia
Click to expand...

He can´t paint a yellow park bench green in the US but when he besieges, blackmails and bombs other countries there is no Democrat far and wide who even tries to stop him.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> About 'Nazis controlling everything' is bullshit, as usual.


Oh, I'm sorry, Nazis are officially called heroes in "democratic" Ukraine now.

Cohen: Trump should have spoken out against what many see as Ukraine’s troubling glorification of Nazi collaborators. Trump should have broadened the agenda to call out Kiev for its official state policy of honoring controversial figures from World War Two.

The latest example: local authorities in the capital recentlyvoted to rename a major street after a former Nazi collaborator and anti-Semite named Roman Shukhevych.

Shukhevych led the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), an organization responsible for the mass slaughter of Poles and Jews during the war. Even inside Ukraine the renaming is a disputed move, with hundreds of people taking to the streets last Friday to protest the decision – only to be attacked by an ultra-nationalist neo-Nazi group called C14.

Commentary: How Trump can show he’s tough on anti-Semitism

A Fascist Hero in Democratic Kiev


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> You have a list of the 5 biggest differences between Nazis and Commies?


Can you tell me 5 biggest differences between liars and those who reject the truth?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have a list of the 5 biggest differences between Nazis and Commies?
> 
> 
> 
> Can you tell me 5 biggest differences between liars and those who reject the truth?
Click to expand...


Commies are funny.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> About 'Nazis controlling everything' is bullshit, as usual.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I'm sorry, Nazis are officially called heroes in "democratic" Ukraine now.
> 
> Cohen: Trump should have spoken out against what many see as Ukraine’s troubling glorification of Nazi collaborators. Trump should have broadened the agenda to call out Kiev for its official state policy of honoring controversial figures from World War Two.
> 
> The latest example: local authorities in the capital recentlyvoted to rename a major street after a former Nazi collaborator and anti-Semite named Roman Shukhevych.
> 
> Shukhevych led the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), an organization responsible for the mass slaughter of Poles and Jews during the war. Even inside Ukraine the renaming is a disputed move, with hundreds of people taking to the streets last Friday to protest the decision – only to be attacked by an ultra-nationalist neo-Nazi group called C14.
> 
> Commentary: How Trump can show he’s tough on anti-Semitism
> 
> A Fascist Hero in Democratic Kiev
Click to expand...

Commemoration of those who cooperated with Nazis is a separate theme. And I am against it. 

But I can repeat once more - your claim 'Nazis controlling everything' is bullshit, as usual.


----------



## Bleipriester

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> About 'Nazis controlling everything' is bullshit, as usual.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I'm sorry, Nazis are officially called heroes in "democratic" Ukraine now.
> 
> Cohen: Trump should have spoken out against what many see as Ukraine’s troubling glorification of Nazi collaborators. Trump should have broadened the agenda to call out Kiev for its official state policy of honoring controversial figures from World War Two.
> 
> The latest example: local authorities in the capital recentlyvoted to rename a major street after a former Nazi collaborator and anti-Semite named Roman Shukhevych.
> 
> Shukhevych led the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), an organization responsible for the mass slaughter of Poles and Jews during the war. Even inside Ukraine the renaming is a disputed move, with hundreds of people taking to the streets last Friday to protest the decision – only to be attacked by an ultra-nationalist neo-Nazi group called C14.
> 
> Commentary: How Trump can show he’s tough on anti-Semitism
> 
> A Fascist Hero in Democratic Kiev
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Commemoration of those who cooperated with Nazis is a separate theme. And I am against it.
> 
> But I can repeat once more - your claim 'Nazis controlling everything' is bullshit, as usual.
Click to expand...

He is pro Trump so he has to get along with his Nazis.


----------



## ESay

Bleipriester said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> About 'Nazis controlling everything' is bullshit, as usual.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I'm sorry, Nazis are officially called heroes in "democratic" Ukraine now.
> 
> Cohen: Trump should have spoken out against what many see as Ukraine’s troubling glorification of Nazi collaborators. Trump should have broadened the agenda to call out Kiev for its official state policy of honoring controversial figures from World War Two.
> 
> The latest example: local authorities in the capital recentlyvoted to rename a major street after a former Nazi collaborator and anti-Semite named Roman Shukhevych.
> 
> Shukhevych led the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), an organization responsible for the mass slaughter of Poles and Jews during the war. Even inside Ukraine the renaming is a disputed move, with hundreds of people taking to the streets last Friday to protest the decision – only to be attacked by an ultra-nationalist neo-Nazi group called C14.
> 
> Commentary: How Trump can show he’s tough on anti-Semitism
> 
> A Fascist Hero in Democratic Kiev
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Commemoration of those who cooperated with Nazis is a separate theme. And I am against it.
> 
> But I can repeat once more - your claim 'Nazis controlling everything' is bullshit, as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is pro Trump so he has to get along with his Nazis.
Click to expand...

Who is he? Stratford? 'He' is actually she, IIRC. 

She isn't pro Trump actually. If Obama had praised joining Crimea to Russia and openly condemned so called coup, she would be the most staunch supporter of him here. IMO. 

And there is no Trump's Nazis in Ukraine.


----------



## Bleipriester

ESay said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> About 'Nazis controlling everything' is bullshit, as usual.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I'm sorry, Nazis are officially called heroes in "democratic" Ukraine now.
> 
> Cohen: Trump should have spoken out against what many see as Ukraine’s troubling glorification of Nazi collaborators. Trump should have broadened the agenda to call out Kiev for its official state policy of honoring controversial figures from World War Two.
> 
> The latest example: local authorities in the capital recentlyvoted to rename a major street after a former Nazi collaborator and anti-Semite named Roman Shukhevych.
> 
> Shukhevych led the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), an organization responsible for the mass slaughter of Poles and Jews during the war. Even inside Ukraine the renaming is a disputed move, with hundreds of people taking to the streets last Friday to protest the decision – only to be attacked by an ultra-nationalist neo-Nazi group called C14.
> 
> Commentary: How Trump can show he’s tough on anti-Semitism
> 
> A Fascist Hero in Democratic Kiev
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Commemoration of those who cooperated with Nazis is a separate theme. And I am against it.
> 
> But I can repeat once more - your claim 'Nazis controlling everything' is bullshit, as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is pro Trump so he has to get along with his Nazis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who is he? Stratford? 'He' is actually she, IIRC.
> 
> She isn't pro Trump actually. If Obama had praised joining Crimea to Russia and openly condemned so called coup, she would be the most staunch supporter of him here. IMO.
> 
> And there is no Trump's Nazis in Ukraine.
Click to expand...

Yes, all his or her posts are about the greatness of Trump. Trump, Trump, Trump. 
The coup was done by Nazileins, the government is still full of them. And they are not right wing or anything, but Nazis or covert Nazis in the meaning of Neonazis.












And Obama´s Nazis are now Trump´s Nazis.


----------



## ESay

Bleipriester said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> About 'Nazis controlling everything' is bullshit, as usual.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I'm sorry, Nazis are officially called heroes in "democratic" Ukraine now.
> 
> Cohen: Trump should have spoken out against what many see as Ukraine’s troubling glorification of Nazi collaborators. Trump should have broadened the agenda to call out Kiev for its official state policy of honoring controversial figures from World War Two.
> 
> The latest example: local authorities in the capital recentlyvoted to rename a major street after a former Nazi collaborator and anti-Semite named Roman Shukhevych.
> 
> Shukhevych led the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), an organization responsible for the mass slaughter of Poles and Jews during the war. Even inside Ukraine the renaming is a disputed move, with hundreds of people taking to the streets last Friday to protest the decision – only to be attacked by an ultra-nationalist neo-Nazi group called C14.
> 
> Commentary: How Trump can show he’s tough on anti-Semitism
> 
> A Fascist Hero in Democratic Kiev
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Commemoration of those who cooperated with Nazis is a separate theme. And I am against it.
> 
> But I can repeat once more - your claim 'Nazis controlling everything' is bullshit, as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is pro Trump so he has to get along with his Nazis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who is he? Stratford? 'He' is actually she, IIRC.
> 
> She isn't pro Trump actually. If Obama had praised joining Crimea to Russia and openly condemned so called coup, she would be the most staunch supporter of him here. IMO.
> 
> And there is no Trump's Nazis in Ukraine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, all his or her posts are about the greatness of Trump. Trump, Trump, Trump.
> The coup was done by Nazileins, the government is still full of them. And they are not right wing or anything, but Nazis or covert Nazis in the meaning of Neonazis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Obama´s Nazis are now Trump´s Nazis.
Click to expand...

Nonsense. It is the first government of Yatseniuk that included a handful of members of Svoboda party. Now they are sidelined completely. To say nothing about other nationalistic movements. 

The first pic is great. In line with Russian propaganda. You can have more in common with Stratford than you think. 

If I decide to wave my hand to someone, will I become a Nazi too?


----------



## eagle1462010

https://maxrose.house.gov/uploadedfiles/2019.10.16_rose_fto_letter_to_state.pdf

interesting........and interesting reads in Germany as well..........


----------



## Bleipriester

ESay said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I'm sorry, Nazis are officially called heroes in "democratic" Ukraine now.
> 
> Cohen: Trump should have spoken out against what many see as Ukraine’s troubling glorification of Nazi collaborators. Trump should have broadened the agenda to call out Kiev for its official state policy of honoring controversial figures from World War Two.
> 
> The latest example: local authorities in the capital recentlyvoted to rename a major street after a former Nazi collaborator and anti-Semite named Roman Shukhevych.
> 
> Shukhevych led the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), an organization responsible for the mass slaughter of Poles and Jews during the war. Even inside Ukraine the renaming is a disputed move, with hundreds of people taking to the streets last Friday to protest the decision – only to be attacked by an ultra-nationalist neo-Nazi group called C14.
> 
> Commentary: How Trump can show he’s tough on anti-Semitism
> 
> A Fascist Hero in Democratic Kiev
> 
> 
> 
> Commemoration of those who cooperated with Nazis is a separate theme. And I am against it.
> 
> But I can repeat once more - your claim 'Nazis controlling everything' is bullshit, as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is pro Trump so he has to get along with his Nazis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who is he? Stratford? 'He' is actually she, IIRC.
> 
> She isn't pro Trump actually. If Obama had praised joining Crimea to Russia and openly condemned so called coup, she would be the most staunch supporter of him here. IMO.
> 
> And there is no Trump's Nazis in Ukraine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, all his or her posts are about the greatness of Trump. Trump, Trump, Trump.
> The coup was done by Nazileins, the government is still full of them. And they are not right wing or anything, but Nazis or covert Nazis in the meaning of Neonazis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Obama´s Nazis are now Trump´s Nazis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nonsense. It is the first government of Yatseniuk that included a handful of members of Svoboda party. Now they are sidelined completely. To say nothing about other nationalistic movements.
> 
> The first pic is great. In line with Russian propaganda. You can have more in common with Stratford than you think.
> 
> If I decide to wave my hand to someone, will I become a Nazi too?
Click to expand...

Yatse is Nazi and torturer.
And the current government just introduced the Bandera day.


----------



## ESay

Bleipriester said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Commemoration of those who cooperated with Nazis is a separate theme. And I am against it.
> 
> But I can repeat once more - your claim 'Nazis controlling everything' is bullshit, as usual.
> 
> 
> 
> He is pro Trump so he has to get along with his Nazis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who is he? Stratford? 'He' is actually she, IIRC.
> 
> She isn't pro Trump actually. If Obama had praised joining Crimea to Russia and openly condemned so called coup, she would be the most staunch supporter of him here. IMO.
> 
> And there is no Trump's Nazis in Ukraine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, all his or her posts are about the greatness of Trump. Trump, Trump, Trump.
> The coup was done by Nazileins, the government is still full of them. And they are not right wing or anything, but Nazis or covert Nazis in the meaning of Neonazis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Obama´s Nazis are now Trump´s Nazis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nonsense. It is the first government of Yatseniuk that included a handful of members of Svoboda party. Now they are sidelined completely. To say nothing about other nationalistic movements.
> 
> The first pic is great. In line with Russian propaganda. You can have more in common with Stratford than you think.
> 
> If I decide to wave my hand to someone, will I become a Nazi too?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yatse is Nazi and torturer.
> And the current government just introduced the Bandera day.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and he fought in Chechnya and killed Russian servicemen there. I wonder, maybe Russian propaganda channels use some secret rays which damage brain of the victim. Hmm. 

Bandera was commemorated in Western Ukraine and by some people in Kiev since long ago.


----------



## Bleipriester

ESay said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> He is pro Trump so he has to get along with his Nazis.
> 
> 
> 
> Who is he? Stratford? 'He' is actually she, IIRC.
> 
> She isn't pro Trump actually. If Obama had praised joining Crimea to Russia and openly condemned so called coup, she would be the most staunch supporter of him here. IMO.
> 
> And there is no Trump's Nazis in Ukraine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, all his or her posts are about the greatness of Trump. Trump, Trump, Trump.
> The coup was done by Nazileins, the government is still full of them. And they are not right wing or anything, but Nazis or covert Nazis in the meaning of Neonazis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Obama´s Nazis are now Trump´s Nazis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nonsense. It is the first government of Yatseniuk that included a handful of members of Svoboda party. Now they are sidelined completely. To say nothing about other nationalistic movements.
> 
> The first pic is great. In line with Russian propaganda. You can have more in common with Stratford than you think.
> 
> If I decide to wave my hand to someone, will I become a Nazi too?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yatse is Nazi and torturer.
> And the current government just introduced the Bandera day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, and he fought in Chechnya and killed Russian servicemen there. I wonder, maybe Russian propaganda channels use some secret rays which damage brain of the victim. Hmm.
> 
> Bandera was commemorated in Western Ukraine and by some people in Kiev since long ago.
Click to expand...

He "fought" also Jews and Poles. He was just another Nazi. Too bad for him that his masters had different plans for his country than he did.


----------



## ESay

Bleipriester said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is he? Stratford? 'He' is actually she, IIRC.
> 
> She isn't pro Trump actually. If Obama had praised joining Crimea to Russia and openly condemned so called coup, she would be the most staunch supporter of him here. IMO.
> 
> And there is no Trump's Nazis in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, all his or her posts are about the greatness of Trump. Trump, Trump, Trump.
> The coup was done by Nazileins, the government is still full of them. And they are not right wing or anything, but Nazis or covert Nazis in the meaning of Neonazis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Obama´s Nazis are now Trump´s Nazis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nonsense. It is the first government of Yatseniuk that included a handful of members of Svoboda party. Now they are sidelined completely. To say nothing about other nationalistic movements.
> 
> The first pic is great. In line with Russian propaganda. You can have more in common with Stratford than you think.
> 
> If I decide to wave my hand to someone, will I become a Nazi too?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yatse is Nazi and torturer.
> And the current government just introduced the Bandera day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, and he fought in Chechnya and killed Russian servicemen there. I wonder, maybe Russian propaganda channels use some secret rays which damage brain of the victim. Hmm.
> 
> Bandera was commemorated in Western Ukraine and by some people in Kiev since long ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He "fought" also Jews and Poles. He was just another Nazi. Too bad for him that his masters had different plans for his country than he did.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I guessed. Secret X-rays...


----------



## eagle1462010

https://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Countries/UA/Ukraine_14th_HRMMU_Report.pdf

49. Other documented cases appear to be linked to the military presence in densely populated civilian areas, such as towns near the contact line, and general impunity. A man with a mental disability was subject to cruel treatment, rape and other forms of sexual violence by eight to 10 members of the ‘Azov’ and ‘Donbas’ battalions in August-September 2014. The victim’s health subsequently deteriorated and he was hospitalized in a psychiatric hospital34 .

 50. On 17 October 2015, a couple was attacked by two drunken soldiers from the 92nd Brigade in Kalanchak, Kherson region. As a result, the wife’s arm was broken. On 5 December 2015, her property was attacked by intoxicated members of the ‘Aidar’ battalion (some of them armed), reportedly involved in the ‘civil blockade’ of Crimea35. On 18 December 2015 the same perpetrators attacked her on the street, chased her, beat her, “saying dirty sexual words”. The police did not take any measures, and according to the victim were afraid to protect her for fear of antagonizing the perpetrators36. This case is now being investigated by the Prosecutor’s office in Kherson region.

52. Some Ukrainian soldiers who were held by armed groups for several months also provide accounts suggesting sexual violence against women in armed group custody. One of them, who was kept38 in the building of the ‘ministry of state security’ in Donetsk city, reported that some local women were deprived of their liberty for having violated the curfew or other violations of the ‘laws’. He referred to the frequent turnover of the women, “sometimes [they were] taken somewhere and never returned”. Although he never witnessed any incidents, he had serious concerns that those women could have been subjected to sexual violence. Another soldier, who was deprived of his liberty in Donetsk from February to April 2015, was kept in a cell with a man and a woman who had come to Donetsk to register their marriage. One day, drunken members of the armed group took the woman with them and brought her back several hours later. She was intoxicated, her hair and clothes were dishevelled and she was silent. The witness suspects that she was raped39. OHCHR will attempt to obtain more information on the situation of women kept by armed groups, but remains constrained by the lack of access to places of deprivation of liberty in armed group-controlled territories.

58. OHCHR documented allegations of unidentified armed men detaining people living near the conflict zone due to their alleged affiliation with armed groups. They complained about being subjected to ill-treatment and torture in order to extract confessions that they assisted armed groups. Following their confessions, they were taken to SBU premises and officially charged. OHCHR has consistently observed that the SBU fails to inquire into the condition of detainees and the circumstances of their capture. This pattern of conduct suggests that SBU investigators may either be involved in certain cases of arbitrary detention, or fail to act to prosecute perpetrators. 

59. A resident of Mariupol was detained by three servicemen of the ‘Azov’ battalion on 28 January 2015 for supporting the ‘Donetsk people’s republic’. He was taken to the basement of Athletic School No. 61 in Mariupol, where he was held until 6 February 2015. He was continuously interrogated and tortured. He complained about being handcuffed to a metal rod and left hanging on it, he was reportedly tortured with electricity, gas mask and subjected to waterboarding and he was also beaten in his genitals. As a result he confessed about sharing information with the armed groups about the locations of the Government checkpoints. Only on 7 February, he was taken to the Mariupol SBU, where he was officially detained.


----------



## Bleipriester

ESay said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, all his or her posts are about the greatness of Trump. Trump, Trump, Trump.
> The coup was done by Nazileins, the government is still full of them. And they are not right wing or anything, but Nazis or covert Nazis in the meaning of Neonazis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Obama´s Nazis are now Trump´s Nazis.
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense. It is the first government of Yatseniuk that included a handful of members of Svoboda party. Now they are sidelined completely. To say nothing about other nationalistic movements.
> 
> The first pic is great. In line with Russian propaganda. You can have more in common with Stratford than you think.
> 
> If I decide to wave my hand to someone, will I become a Nazi too?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yatse is Nazi and torturer.
> And the current government just introduced the Bandera day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, and he fought in Chechnya and killed Russian servicemen there. I wonder, maybe Russian propaganda channels use some secret rays which damage brain of the victim. Hmm.
> 
> Bandera was commemorated in Western Ukraine and by some people in Kiev since long ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He "fought" also Jews and Poles. He was just another Nazi. Too bad for him that his masters had different plans for his country than he did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, I guessed. Secret X-rays...
Click to expand...

So why do you oppose the Bandera day, then, if he just fought for independence?


----------



## eagle1462010

Donetsk People's Republic - Wikipedia

*Demands[edit]*
According to the _Kyiv Post_, a number of militants in a standoff with police in Mariupol demanded the abolition of biometric passports and an end to vaccinations.[43]

Denis Pushilin, the self-proclaimed chairman of the republic, said that he did not envision the Donetsk People's Republic becoming an independent state, instead preferring to join a renewed Russian Empire.[44]

After which, 200 separatists[55] (according to Igor Dyomin, a spokesman for Donetsk local police, about 1,000[15]) pro-Russian rebels stormed and took control of the first two floors of the building, breaking down doors and smashing windows. The administration headquarters were empty, with only guards inside, as government officials would not work there on Sundays.[53] The separatists demanded that if an extraordinary session was not held by officials, announcing a referendum to join Russia, they would declare unilateral control by forming a "People's Mandate" at noon on 7 April, and dismiss all elected council members and MPs.[56][57][58] The people who voted within the RSA were not elected to the positions they assumed.[59] According to the Russian ITAR-TASS the declaration was voted by some regional legislators; however, there are claims that neither the Donetsk city council nor district councils of the city delegated any representatives to the session.[60][61]


----------



## eagle1462010




----------



## eagle1462010




----------



## eagle1462010

What a shithole country.............why da fuck do we even care.....

Both sides have dirt bags there................both sides raping and killing.........

Which fucking dirt bag side should we take up for..............

Let Europe get off it's ass and deal with it.........it's their dang neighbors anyway.


----------



## eagle1462010

SBU Out Of Control? Secretive law enforcement agency accused of abusing war-time powers - Sep. 29, 2017


----------



## ESay

Bleipriester said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense. It is the first government of Yatseniuk that included a handful of members of Svoboda party. Now they are sidelined completely. To say nothing about other nationalistic movements.
> 
> The first pic is great. In line with Russian propaganda. You can have more in common with Stratford than you think.
> 
> If I decide to wave my hand to someone, will I become a Nazi too?
> 
> 
> 
> Yatse is Nazi and torturer.
> And the current government just introduced the Bandera day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, and he fought in Chechnya and killed Russian servicemen there. I wonder, maybe Russian propaganda channels use some secret rays which damage brain of the victim. Hmm.
> 
> Bandera was commemorated in Western Ukraine and by some people in Kiev since long ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He "fought" also Jews and Poles. He was just another Nazi. Too bad for him that his masters had different plans for his country than he did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, I guessed. Secret X-rays...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So why do you oppose the Bandera day, then, if he just fought for independence?
Click to expand...

I don't like his methods.


----------



## eagle1462010

NATO pushing for power and control

Putin pushing for power and control.

Both sides supporting dirt bags..............and our tax payer dollars going to support another fing cold war....

The Op is right.........they were using dang NeoNazi''s over there..........but the other side for Russia is doing the same damned thing............

Reminds me of Kosovo.............and the Serbs there..........same shit different day.....different place.


----------



## ESay

eagle1462010 said:


> What a shithole country.............why da fuck do we even care.....
> 
> Both sides have dirt bags there................both sides raping and killing.........
> 
> Which fucking dirt bag side should we take up for..............
> 
> Let Europe get off it's ass and deal with it.........it's their dang neighbors anyway.


Read about Vietnam and Iraq and shut up.


----------



## eagle1462010

ESay said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a shithole country.............why da fuck do we even care.....
> 
> Both sides have dirt bags there................both sides raping and killing.........
> 
> Which fucking dirt bag side should we take up for..............
> 
> Let Europe get off it's ass and deal with it.........it's their dang neighbors anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> Read about Vietnam and Iraq and shut up.
Click to expand...

I will use my Free Speech any dang time I please...

From what I'm reading there are scum bags on both sides of this equation.........I'm disgusted by both sides..........

Both power grabs and both sides using Fascist BS groups for it............Take Ukraine and shove it up your ass..........and anytime Russia expansion wants to dance.......Bring it......

Europe trending back to old BS as it did in the past drawing us into it as well.


----------



## ESay

eagle1462010 said:


> Both power grabs and both sides using Fascist BS groups for it............Take Ukraine and shove it up your ass..........and anytime Russia expansion wants to dance.......Bring it......
> 
> Europe trending back to old BS as it did in the past drawing us into it as well.


I value your advice much. And of course you can please Russia every way you want, not forgetting to talk about your greatness. Pussy.


----------



## eagle1462010

ESay said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Both power grabs and both sides using Fascist BS groups for it............Take Ukraine and shove it up your ass..........and anytime Russia expansion wants to dance.......Bring it......
> 
> Europe trending back to old BS as it did in the past drawing us into it as well.
> 
> 
> 
> I value your advice much. And of course you can please Russia every way you want, not forgetting to talk about your greatness. Pussy.
Click to expand...

My point stands..........I don't care about the Ukraine or Russia...........nor the geo BS politics over there.........

I'm tired of the U.S. having to deal with all this crap..........Europe needs to step up here...it's in their dang backyard anyways......

Pussy..........LOL..........whatever bro......I simply don't care.


----------



## ESay

eagle1462010 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Both power grabs and both sides using Fascist BS groups for it............Take Ukraine and shove it up your ass..........and anytime Russia expansion wants to dance.......Bring it......
> 
> Europe trending back to old BS as it did in the past drawing us into it as well.
> 
> 
> 
> I value your advice much. And of course you can please Russia every way you want, not forgetting to talk about your greatness. Pussy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My point stands..........I don't care about the Ukraine or Russia...........nor the geo BS politics over there.........
> 
> I'm tired of the U.S. having to deal with all this crap..........Europe needs to step up here...it's in their dang backyard anyways......
> 
> Pussy..........LOL..........whatever bro......I simply don't care.
Click to expand...

I am sorry for the word I used. 

Europe won't stand up against Russia. Western Europe. If they were to decide, they would sell Eastern Europe to Moscow in exchange for security guarantees and lucrative trade deals.


----------



## eagle1462010

ESay said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Both power grabs and both sides using Fascist BS groups for it............Take Ukraine and shove it up your ass..........and anytime Russia expansion wants to dance.......Bring it......
> 
> Europe trending back to old BS as it did in the past drawing us into it as well.
> 
> 
> 
> I value your advice much. And of course you can please Russia every way you want, not forgetting to talk about your greatness. Pussy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My point stands..........I don't care about the Ukraine or Russia...........nor the geo BS politics over there.........
> 
> I'm tired of the U.S. having to deal with all this crap..........Europe needs to step up here...it's in their dang backyard anyways......
> 
> Pussy..........LOL..........whatever bro......I simply don't care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am sorry for the word I used.
> 
> Europe won't stand up against Russia. Western Europe. If they were to decide, they would sell Eastern Europe to Moscow in exchange for security guarantees and lucrative trade deals.
Click to expand...

That is a trend I see with Germany and the IMF...........including stabbing us in the back over Iran.......

They use us...........and we are tired of it.


----------



## ESay

eagle1462010 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Both power grabs and both sides using Fascist BS groups for it............Take Ukraine and shove it up your ass..........and anytime Russia expansion wants to dance.......Bring it......
> 
> Europe trending back to old BS as it did in the past drawing us into it as well.
> 
> 
> 
> I value your advice much. And of course you can please Russia every way you want, not forgetting to talk about your greatness. Pussy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My point stands..........I don't care about the Ukraine or Russia...........nor the geo BS politics over there.........
> 
> I'm tired of the U.S. having to deal with all this crap..........Europe needs to step up here...it's in their dang backyard anyways......
> 
> Pussy..........LOL..........whatever bro......I simply don't care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am sorry for the word I used.
> 
> Europe won't stand up against Russia. Western Europe. If they were to decide, they would sell Eastern Europe to Moscow in exchange for security guarantees and lucrative trade deals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is a trend I see with Germany and the IMF...........including stabbing us in the back over Iran.......
> 
> They use us...........and we are tired of it.
Click to expand...

There should be absolutely new defense strategy and architecture in Europe. Nato is outdated and useful only for bureaucrats it feeds. But the cornerstone of a new alliance should be the US. I understand why the Americans say they are tired. And it may well be that they will decide to leave. In this case everything will be in vain. 

About the Iran deal I have a different opinion than you. Now the regime has nothing to lose. And that is not good.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> About 'Nazis controlling everything' is bullshit, as usual.



Believe me I would be more than happy to be wrong but so far I was only wrong in one thing: since the coup Ukraine has been controlled by Nazi and Americans (Deep State), not just Nazis.  In 2014 there were only about 2 thousands Nazis in Ukraine, *our anti-coup protests have been attacked by them several times* and police was protecting … them from us. Now Nazis are about 1-2% of the population but they are very aggressive and are allowed to attack anything or anybody they want: civilians, celebrities, politicians,  churches, buildings, etc. and policemen usually watch them from aside and never interfere. Usually those are people who’ve been to ATO (killing civilians in Donbass), are well trained, well organized and have lots of weapons. With a breaking heart I’m writing this.

Ukrainian Nazis attack churches (watch how they treat the police!):

Ukrainian Nazis attack a pop star

Nazis fight an old man and a woman with a broken arm with Georgian ribbon , threat to kill

And so on and on. Tons of videos of Nazis attacks on youtube.

The US Is Empowering Nazis in Ukraine


Zelensky is talking Nazi battalion Azov to pull out from Donbass and to stop shelling the civilians. But if he is a real chief and commander *he should have given them an order and to punish everybody who don’t execute the order.*


Ukrainian nationalists protest against *peace deal with Donbass calling it “Capitulation” *which they called Minsk Agreements signed in 2015 by Merkel, Holland, Poroshenko.
Thousands in Ukraine march against peace deal with Russia

Thousands in Kyiv Protest Zelenskiy's Plan For Local Elections in Eastern Ukraine


They protested in Paris:
D&B - “No capitulation” rally in Kyiv ahead of the Paris “Normandy summit”


Avakov in Paris: "No Zrada (capitulation)" even  before press conference of 4 leaders. Where else in the world you can see a minister talking to press before his president talks?
*
Avakov is a minister of interior affairs . *What was Avakov doing in Normandy negotiations if not  escorting Zelensky to control his “flexibility” in peace negotiations. *Avakov, Kolomoysky, Poroshenko have been making huge money on war in Donbass. *They do NOT want peace there, to bring Avakov to the negotiations about peace in Donbass is the same as to bring gasoline to the fire.

-----
"As Ukraine’s struggle against Russia and its proxies continues, Kiev must also contend with a growing problem behind the front lines: far-right vigilantes who are willing to use intimidation and even violence to advance their agendas, and who often do so with the tacit approval of law enforcement agencies.

Ukrainian extremists are rarely punished for acts of violence. In some cases — such as C14's January attack on a remembrance gathering for two murdered journalists — police actually detain peaceful demonstrators instead.

Though Avakov controls the Ukraine’s police and National Guard, Azov."
Commentary: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem


----------



## LA RAM FAN

occupied said:


> Fuck Russia and that faggot Putin as well. See that comrade? I get to live in a country where I can call your boss a pole smoker and I don't get killed.



the fact paid shill toddsterPARROT likes this post,is proof this is another paid troll just like him that has also penetrated this site,everybody knows PARROT is a shill that has penetrated this site.


----------



## Stratford57

Bleipriester , I do not agree with everything Trump says and does. But he's Deep State's wortst enemy and Deep State is our worst enemy . And an enemy of my enemy is my friend. In any case I think Trump is an honest and brave person and a patriot to be able to confront with the most powerful in the world Deep State machine which has destroyed lots of those tho dared to disagree with them.

But I would care less about USA if they just minded their own business and did NOT interfere in my home country of Ukraine. But they did and now "independent" Ukraine is totally dependent on Americans, their Deep State. Biden's case is just a tip of the iceberg of their corruption and crimes in Ukraine.

 Franko Frattini, Italian Minister of Foreign affairs: “*What happens in Washington doesn’t stay in Washington: it comes to my country, it affects everybody *I’d like to tell my USA colleagues: don’t make one sided decisions. EU sometimes is afraid to stand for its interests especially when its interests contradict USA interests. And it’s not right.”

Press conference during Moscow Festival of Youth and Students


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Stratford57 said:


> Bleipriester , I do not agree with everything Trump says and does. But he's Deep State's wortst enemy and Deep State is our worst enemy . And an enemy of my enemy is my friend. In any case I think Trump is an honest and brave person and a patriot to be able to confront with the most powerful in the world Deep State machine which has destroyed lots of those tho dared to disagree with them.
> 
> But I would care less about USA if they just minded their own business and did NOT interfere in my home country of Ukraine. But they did and now "independent" Ukraine is totally dependent on Americans, their Deep State. Biden's case is just a tip of the iceberg of their corruption and crimes in Ukraine.
> 
> Franko Frattini, Italian Minister of Foreign affairs: “*What happens in Washington doesn’t stay in Washington: it comes to my country, it affects everybody *I’d like to tell my USA colleagues: don’t make one sided decisions. EU sometimes is afraid to stand for its interests especially when its interests contradict USA interests. And it’s not right.”
> 
> Press conference during Moscow Festival of Youth and Students



well said,Trump is a loose cannon that they cant control sometimes.The ONLY  reason the deep state has not assassinated him is he does support Israel and caters to them. If he was not a supporter of Israel they would have taken him out a long time ago and Biden would have been the president these last few years instead.


----------



## Bleipriester

Stratford57 said:


> Bleipriester , I do not agree with everything Trump says and does. But he's Deep State's wortst enemy and Deep State is our worst enemy . And an enemy of my enemy is my friend. In any case I think Trump is an honest and brave person and a patriot to be able to confront with the most powerful in the world Deep State machine which has destroyed lots of those tho dared to disagree with them.
> 
> But I would care less about USA if they just minded their own business and did NOT interfere in my home country of Ukraine. But they did and now "independent" Ukraine is totally dependent on Americans, their Deep State. Biden's case is just a tip of the iceberg of their corruption and crimes in Ukraine.
> 
> Franko Frattini, Italian Minister of Foreign affairs: “*What happens in Washington doesn’t stay in Washington: it comes to my country, it affects everybody *I’d like to tell my USA colleagues: don’t make one sided decisions. EU sometimes is afraid to stand for its interests especially when its interests contradict USA interests. And it’s not right.”
> 
> Press conference during Moscow Festival of Youth and Students


Phrump is the filth of Deep State, shat into office by Deep State with false slogans of peace and taking back America.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> About 'Nazis controlling everything' is bullshit, as usual.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Believe me I would be more than happy to be wrong but so far I was only wrong in one thing: since the coup Ukraine has been controlled by Nazi and Americans (Deep State).  In 2014 there were only about 2 thousands Nazis in Ukraine, our anti-coup protests have been attacked by them and police was protecting … them from us. Now Nazis are about 1-2% of the population but they are very aggressive and are allowed to attack anything or anybody they want: civilians, celebrities, politicians churches, buildings, etc. and policemen usually watch them from aside and never interfere. Usually those are people who’ve been to ATO (killing civilians in Donbass), are well trained, well organized and have lots of weapons. With a breaking heart I’m writing this.
> 
> Ukrainian Nazis attack churches (watch how they treat the police!):
> 
> Ukrainian Nazis attack a pop star
> 
> Nazis fight an old man and a woman with a broken arm with Georgian ribbon , threat to kill
> 
> 
> The US Is Empowering Nazis in Ukraine
> 
> 
> Zelensky is talking Nazi battalion Azov to pull out from Donbass and to stop shelling the civilians. But if he is a real chief and commander *he should have given them an order and to punish everybody who don’t execute the order.*
> 
> 
> Ukrainian nationalists protest against peace deal with Donbass calling it “Capitulation” which they called Minsk Agreements signed in 2015 by Merkel, Holland, Poroshenko.
> Thousands in Ukraine march against peace deal with Russia
> 
> Thousands in Kyiv Protest Zelenskiy's Plan For Local Elections in Eastern Ukraine
> 
> 
> In Paris:
> D&B - “No capitulation” rally in Kyiv ahead of the Paris “Normandy summit”
> 
> 
> Avakov: "No Zrada (capitulation)" even  before press conference. *Avakov is a minister of interior affairs . *What was Avakov doing in Normandy negotiations if not  escorting Zelensky to control his “flexibility” in peace negotiations. *Avakov, Kolomoysky, Poroshenko have been making huge money on war in Donbass. *They do NOT want peace there, to bring Avakov to the negotiations about peace in Donbass is the same as to bring gasoline to the fire.
> 
> -----
> "As Ukraine’s struggle against Russia and its proxies continues, Kiev must also contend with a growing problem behind the front lines: far-right vigilantes who are willing to use intimidation and even violence to advance their agendas, and who often do so with the tacit approval of law enforcement agencies.
> 
> Ukrainian extremists are rarely punished for acts of violence. In some cases — such as C14's January attack on a remembrance gathering for two murdered journalists — police actually detain peaceful demonstrators instead.
> 
> Though Avakov controls the Ukraine’s police and National Guard, Azov."
> Commentary: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
Click to expand...


*since the coup Ukraine has been controlled by Nazi and Americans*

And Nazis are worse than Commies because...…….?


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Bleipriester said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester , I do not agree with everything Trump says and does. But he's Deep State's wortst enemy and Deep State is our worst enemy . And an enemy of my enemy is my friend. In any case I think Trump is an honest and brave person and a patriot to be able to confront with the most powerful in the world Deep State machine which has destroyed lots of those tho dared to disagree with them.
> 
> But I would care less about USA if they just minded their own business and did NOT interfere in my home country of Ukraine. But they did and now "independent" Ukraine is totally dependent on Americans, their Deep State. Biden's case is just a tip of the iceberg of their corruption and crimes in Ukraine.
> 
> Franko Frattini, Italian Minister of Foreign affairs: “*What happens in Washington doesn’t stay in Washington: it comes to my country, it affects everybody *I’d like to tell my USA colleagues: don’t make one sided decisions. EU sometimes is afraid to stand for its interests especially when its interests contradict USA interests. And it’s not right.”
> 
> Press conference during Moscow Festival of Youth and Students
> 
> 
> 
> Phrump is the filth of Deep State, shat into office by Deep State with false slogans of peace and taking back America.
Click to expand...


very true.He says what americans WANT to hear.I wanted to believe that he was our first real president since JFK not a puppet for the bankers and the evil CIA but his actions towards Israel prove otherwise and he is all talk and no action,he claims of draining the swamp but his administration is filled by the swamp.He has been a loyal servant to the CIA and that makes them happy. He talks a good game telling americans what they WANT TO hear but his actions dont back up what he says.

He tells the truth that the fed is an evil cancer and everything but he he has not done ANYTHING about them or even attempted to. All he has to do is reinstate JFK's executive order that Lyndon Johnson reversed and abolished after he took over.If he did that,that would end the fed right now but he is too afraid to stand up to the establishment obviously.


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> And Nazis are worse than Commies because...…….?


Because _somebody _posting here can't differ sh*t from Shinola.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

LA RAM FAN said:


> occupied said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck Russia and that faggot Putin as well. See that comrade? I get to live in a country where I can call your boss a pole smoker and I don't get killed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the fact paid shill toddsterPARROT likes this post,is proof this is another paid troll just like him that has also penetrated this site,everybody knows PARROT is a shill that has penetrated this site.
Click to expand...


When you say "penetrated", you're touching yourself, aren't you?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Nazis are worse than Commies because...…….?
> 
> 
> 
> Because _somebody _posting here can't differ sh*t from Shinola.
Click to expand...


If a Commie, such as yourself, can't explain the difference.....there is no difference.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

two farts in a row from the paid shill of Langley^


----------



## Stratford57

eagle1462010 said:


> Both sides have dirt bags there................both sides raping and killing.........


Putin is not near as guilty as Ukrainians and their Deep State puppeteers. There are no regular Russian troops in Donbass and Putin just saved Crimeans from "being sunk in blood" as promised by Ukrainian Nazis in 2014.

The American Conservative,
Was it U.S. complicity in the Kiev coup that ousted the elected pro-Russian regime that caused Putin to seize Crimea to hold onto Russia’s Black Sea naval base at Sevastopol?

*Many Putin actions we condemn were reactions to what we did.*

*Russia annexed Crimea bloodlessly*. But did not the *U.S. bomb Serbia for 78 days* to force Belgrade to surrender her cradle province of Kosovo?

How was that more moral than what Putin did in Crimea?
Trump Calls Off Cold War II | The American Conservative

If you need more  info I'll provide it.

Meanwhile, if Americans did as promised and investigated Biden's crimes in Ukraine the thread would lead to CIA, Soros, Obama's administration, lots of Democrats. The world would be shocked with the crimes against humanity they and their Ukrainian vassals have committed in Ukraine. No Democrat would win any more in USA for years.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> About 'Nazis controlling everything' is bullshit, as usual.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Believe me I would be more than happy to be wrong but so far I was only wrong in one thing: since the coup Ukraine has been controlled by Nazi and Americans (Deep State), not just Nazis.  In 2014 there were only about 2 thousands Nazis in Ukraine, *our anti-coup protests have been attacked by them several times* and police was protecting … them from us. Now Nazis are about 1-2% of the population but they are very aggressive and are allowed to attack anything or anybody they want: civilians, celebrities, politicians,  churches, buildings, etc. and policemen usually watch them from aside and never interfere. Usually those are people who’ve been to ATO (killing civilians in Donbass), are well trained, well organized and have lots of weapons. With a breaking heart I’m writing this.
> 
> Ukrainian Nazis attack churches (watch how they treat the police!):
> 
> Ukrainian Nazis attack a pop star
> 
> Nazis fight an old man and a woman with a broken arm with Georgian ribbon , threat to kill
> 
> And so on and on. Tons of videos of Nazis attacks on youtube.
> 
> The US Is Empowering Nazis in Ukraine
> 
> 
> Zelensky is talking Nazi battalion Azov to pull out from Donbass and to stop shelling the civilians. But if he is a real chief and commander *he should have given them an order and to punish everybody who don’t execute the order.*
> 
> 
> Ukrainian nationalists protest against *peace deal with Donbass calling it “Capitulation” *which they called Minsk Agreements signed in 2015 by Merkel, Holland, Poroshenko.
> Thousands in Ukraine march against peace deal with Russia
> 
> Thousands in Kyiv Protest Zelenskiy's Plan For Local Elections in Eastern Ukraine
> 
> 
> They protested in Paris:
> D&B - “No capitulation” rally in Kyiv ahead of the Paris “Normandy summit”
> 
> 
> Avakov in Paris: "No Zrada (capitulation)" even  before press conference of 4 leaders. Where else in the world you can see a minister talking to press before his president talks?
> *
> Avakov is a minister of interior affairs . *What was Avakov doing in Normandy negotiations if not  escorting Zelensky to control his “flexibility” in peace negotiations. *Avakov, Kolomoysky, Poroshenko have been making huge money on war in Donbass. *They do NOT want peace there, to bring Avakov to the negotiations about peace in Donbass is the same as to bring gasoline to the fire.
> 
> -----
> "As Ukraine’s struggle against Russia and its proxies continues, Kiev must also contend with a growing problem behind the front lines: far-right vigilantes who are willing to use intimidation and even violence to advance their agendas, and who often do so with the tacit approval of law enforcement agencies.
> 
> Ukrainian extremists are rarely punished for acts of violence. In some cases — such as C14's January attack on a remembrance gathering for two murdered journalists — police actually detain peaceful demonstrators instead.
> 
> Though Avakov controls the Ukraine’s police and National Guard, Azov."
> Commentary: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
Click to expand...

You can post a hundred similar videos, but this doesn't change the fact - your claim 'Nazis control everything ' is bullshit, as usual. 



Stratford57 said:


> Zelensky is talking Nazi battalion Azov to pull out from Donbass and to stop shelling the civilians. But if he is a real chief and commander *he should have given them an order and to punish everybody who don’t execute the order.*


If you weren't so ignorant, you would already know that those militants pulled back from that point, as Zekensky demanded.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> If you weren't so ignorant, you would already know that those militants pulled back from that point, as Zekensky demanded.


I'm "ignorant" to know the militiants pulled back from ... 3 villages. But there are 100+ villages/towns yet to pull back.

Huge success, congratulations.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you weren't so ignorant, you would already know that those militants pulled back from that point, as Zekensky demanded.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm "ignorant" to know the militiants pulled back from ... 3 villages. But there are 100+ villages/towns yet to pull back.
> 
> Huge success, congratulations.
Click to expand...

The video was about this particular site. And I want to underline that the argument wasnt with the servicemen, but with so called volunteers which got there to thwart the agreed pullback.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> . And I want to underline that the argument wasnt with the servicemen, but with so called volunteers which got there to thwart the agreed pullback.


Yes, "innocent" volunteers from Azov Battalion controlled by Avakov, whose boss is Zelensky, Or meant to be.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> . And I want to underline that the argument wasnt with the servicemen, but with so called volunteers which got there to thwart the agreed pullback.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, "innocent" volunteers from Azov Battalion controlled by Avakov, whose boss is Zelensky, Or meant to be.
Click to expand...

The fact still stands. They got out from there.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> . And I want to underline that the argument wasnt with the servicemen, but with so called volunteers which got there to thwart the agreed pullback.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, "innocent" volunteers from Azov Battalion controlled by Avakov, whose boss is Zelensky, Or meant to be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact still stands. They got out from there.
Click to expand...

At least something they did. But how about other 100+ places? Zelensky told Macron and Merkel it would take more than 10 years to withdraw from all those places. His presidency will be over by them. Even if he wins again.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

LA RAM FAN said:


> two farts in a row from the paid shill of Langley^



Yeah, because only the CIA notices the humor of Commies whining that Nazis are bad.


----------



## eagle1462010

Stratford57 said:


> Putin is not near as guilty as Ukrainians and their Deep State puppeteers. There are no regular Russian troops in Donbass and Putin just saved Crimeans from "being sunk in blood" as promised by Ukrainian Nazis in 2014.


Donbass militants are every bit as harsh as the Neo Nazi's under the SBU there.........From what I read there are Barbaric behavior on both sides of this.  Or is the UN detailed explanation wrong........



Stratford57 said:


> The American Conservative,
> Was it U.S. complicity in the Kiev coup that ousted the elected pro-Russian regime that caused Putin to seize Crimea to hold onto Russia’s Black Sea naval base at Sevastopol?
> 
> *Many Putin actions we condemn were reactions to what we did.*


In Crimea he did what we would do if a military base was about to be seized.........We would have done the same thing...........Of course I'll get a lot of flak for that......LOL



Stratford57 said:


> *Russia annexed Crimea bloodlessly*. But did not the *U.S. bomb Serbia for 78 days* to force Belgrade to surrender her cradle province of Kosovo?


And yet weren't the Serbs committing GENOCIDE THERE..........They were and you know it..........I served during that time..........Not there.............and the Serbs were performing mass murder.

What wasn't told is that the Muslims there were up to BS there against the Serbs as well.......which prompted the Bloodletting there.

You and I know we were close to going to War there.



Stratford57 said:


> Meanwhile, if Americans did as promised and investigated Biden's crimes in Ukraine the thread would lead to CIA, Soros, Obama's administration, lots of Democrats. The world would be shocked with the crimes against humanity they and their Ukrainian vassals have committed in Ukraine. No Democrat would win any more in USA for years.


My reading shows crimes against Humanity from both sides there in Ukraine................The UN report didn't hold back on either side.......

You are correct on the NeoNazi asshats.........but to what extent are they..........that is the real question.  Did our Politicians move in their like Biden........and hook up his son in a chance to make money .......Yeah........he did.


----------



## eagle1462010

https://www.history.com/topics/1990s/bosnian-genocide

*SREBRENICA MASSACRE*
By the summer of 1995, three towns in eastern Bosnia—Srebrenica, Zepa and Gorazde—remained under control of the Bosnian government. The U.N. had declared these enclaves “safe havens” in 1993, to be disarmed and protected by international peacekeeping forces.

On July 11, 1995, however, Bosnian Serb forces advanced on Srebrenica, overwhelming a battalion of Dutch peacekeeping forces stationed there. Serbian forces subsequently separated the Bosniak civilians at Srebrenica, putting the women and girls on buses and sending them to Bosnian-held territory.

Some of the women were raped or sexually assaulted, while the men and boys who remained behind were killed immediately or bussed to mass killing sites. Estimates of Bosniaks killed by Serb forces at Srebrenica range from around 7,000 to more than 8,000.

After Bosnian Serb forces captured Zepa that same month and exploded a bomb in a crowded Sarajevo market, the international community began to respond more forcefully to the ongoing conflict and its ever-growing civilian death toll.

In August 1995, after the Serbs refused to comply with a U.N. ultimatum, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) joined efforts with Bosnian and Croatian forces for three weeks of bombing Bosnian Serb positions and a ground offensive.


----------



## eagle1462010

I remember this...............the dang UN forces tucked tail and RAN........Had that been American forces there this NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED.............

That is why the U.S. went into Kosovo under NATO command.  The UN declared a Safe Haven........and then allowed the people in the Safe Haven to be slaughtered..........

The UN then came to us..........because they didn't have the back bone to fight.........when Clinton finally had the nerve to do it..........WE BUSTED THEIR ASSES UP.

Our forces nearly ran over Serb check points moving in.........daring them to fire on us.........and that ended the Genocide of the Serbs there........

The Russians moved into the area to SAVE THE SERBS........who took people into stadiums.......MEN WOMEN AND CHILDREN and Slaughtered them.............

I REMEMBER KOSOVO......and I remember that we were fully prepared to kill Russians there.......Had the Russians pulled the trigger there.......We would have WENT TO WAR.


----------



## eagle1462010

A commander in this video admits using NeoNazi's but said they are no longer in command on the front........yet on the front in this video...........the front lines were still militia and not Ukrainian army units......

So it's really hard to tell what's really going on here.


----------



## eagle1462010




----------



## eagle1462010

In pictures: Inside the palace Yanukovych didn't want Ukraine to see





One of Yankukovych's monogrammed golden golf driversPicture: ANDREW LUBIMOV/AP





Ostriches in Yanukovych's private zooPicture: KONSTANTIN CHERNICHKIN/REUTERS





Forty minutes drive north of Kiev, Mr Yanukovych’s residence at Mezhyhirya as long been seen as a symbol of the corruption and greed that protesters say was at the heart of his regimePicture: AP





Some of the extensive car collection housed in a purpose built building on the propertyPicture: JEFFREY J. MITCHELL/GETTY IMAGES


----------



## eagle1462010

Ukraine crisis: A timeline of the conflict from the Euromaidan

30 November: Public support grows for the “Euromaidan” anti-government protesters in Kiev demonstrating against Yanukovych’s refusal to sign the EU Association Agreement as images of them injured by police crackdown spread.

20 February: Kiev sees its worst day of violence for almost 70 years as at least 88 people are killed in 48 hours, with uniformed snipers shooting at protesters from rooftops.






22 February: Yanukovych flees the country after protest leaders and politicians agree to form a new government and hold elections. The imprisoned former Prime Minister, Yulia Tymoshenko, is freed from prison and protesters take control of Presidential administration buildings, including Mr Yanukovych's residence.

27 February: Pro-Russian militias seize government buildings in Crimea and the new Ukrainian government vows to prevent the country breaking up as the Crimean Parliament sets a referendum on secession from Ukraine in May.


16 March: Crimea votes overwhelmingly to secede from Ukraine and join Russia in a ballot condemned by the US and Europe as illegal. Russian troops had moved into the peninsula weeks before after pro-Russian separatists occupied buildings.

6 April: Pro-Russian rebels seize government buildings in the eastern cities of Donetsk, Luhansk and Kharkiv, calling for a referendum on independence and claiming independent republic. Ukraine authorities regain control of Kharkiv buildings on 8 April after launching an “anti-terror operation” but the rest remain out of their control.


----------



## eagle1462010

A War started over the removal of this dude...............you have got to be kidding me........

A Gold Golf club.......private Zoo.........WTF.

Ukraine Sentences Ex-President Yanukovych In Absentia To 13 Years In Prison


----------



## eagle1462010

Euromaidan - Wikipedia


----------



## eagle1462010

Merkel.........

The EU played a very big part in this.


----------



## Stratford57

eagle1462010 said:


> A War started over the removal of this dude...............you have got to be kidding me........
> 
> A Gold Golf club.......private Zoo.........WTF.



1. If we could see the properties of other Ukrainian top politicians, Yanukovich may have looked like a middle class.

NYT:
The scale of global kleptocracy has become so vast — by some accounts, more than one trillion dollars is stolen annually from developing countries — that it is almost impossible to imagine how the problem could ever be defeated.
Opinion | How Ukraine Is Fighting Corruption One Heart Stent at a Time

During Yanukovich times we in Ukraine had pretty high salaries and high retirement payments. Now average retirement payments are lower than utilities. Ukraine now is officially the poorest country in Europe and probably the most corrupt. Oligarchs  have increased their wealth several times  (while Maidan promised no corruption, no oligarchs).

2. I think Trump also has Golf clubs and may have other luxury things but how would you feel if somebody came and overthrew him? That's exactly what we (who voted for Yanukovich) felt. FYI, the same people [Deep State] who made it possible to overthrow Yanukovich in Ukraine in 2014, are trying to overthrow Trump in USA now.

3. The war started because Donbass had had a referendum, over 80% voted to separate from post coup Ukraine who started suppressing major rights of Russian speaking population (which all Eastern Ukraine is) and openly threatening to "hang all the Russians on the trees ". However it was NOT Donbass who brought it's tanks to Kiev:  it was official Kiev who brought its tanks to Donbass. Bloody civil war has started there. Official Kiev found a good "excuse" and blamed Putin for their own crimes. Just like Democrats are blaming Trump for Biden's crimes now.

That was long story short.


----------



## eagle1462010

Stratford57 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> A War started over the removal of this dude...............you have got to be kidding me........
> 
> A Gold Golf club.......private Zoo.........WTF.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. If we could see the properties of other Ukrainian top politicians, Yanukovich may have looked like a middle class.
> 
> NYT:
> The scale of global kleptocracy has become so vast — by some accounts, more than one trillion dollars is stolen annually from developing countries — that it is almost impossible to imagine how the problem could ever be defeated.
> Opinion | How Ukraine Is Fighting Corruption One Heart Stent at a Time
> 
> During Yanukovich times we in Ukraine had pretty high salaries and high retirement payments. Now average retirement payments are lower than utilities. Ukraine now is officially the poorest country in Europe and probably the most corrupt. Oligarchs  have increased their wealth several times  (while Maidan promised no corruption, no oligarchs).
> 
> 2. I think Trump also has Golf clubs and may have other luxury things but how would you feel if somebody came and overthrew him? That's exactly what we (who voted for Yanukovich) felt. FYI, the same people [Deep State] who made it possible to overthrow Yanukovich in Ukraine in 2014, are trying to overthrow Trump in USA now.
> 
> 3. The war started because Donbass had had a referendum, over 80% voted to separate from post coup Ukraine who started suppressing major rights of Russian speaking population (which all Eastern Ukraine is) and openly threatening to "hang all the Russians on the trees ". However it was NOT Donbass who brought it's tanks to Kiev:  it was official Kiev who brought its tanks to Donbass. Bloody civil war has started there. Official Kiev found a good "excuse" and blamed Putin for their own crimes. Just like Democrats are blaming Trump for Biden's crimes now.
> 
> That was long story short.
Click to expand...

And I read several polls that the entire nation was divided almost equally over going to the EU versus going to Russia.............Believe some said 45% to 48%.........in Crimea it's mostly pro Russia........

What that guy had was pretty crazy...........leads me to believe he was pilfering the countries money..  Also he was trending towards the EU, but after Sanctions from Russia went the other way.

It appears the country is divided between EU and Russia.......almost equally from east to west.  I watched the violence from both sides of the equation.  Takes 2 to tango


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> . And I want to underline that the argument wasnt with the servicemen, but with so called volunteers which got there to thwart the agreed pullback.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, "innocent" volunteers from Azov Battalion controlled by Avakov, whose boss is Zelensky, Or meant to be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact still stands. They got out from there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At least something they did. But how about other 100+ places? Zelensky told Macron and Merkel it would take more than 10 years to withdraw from all those places. His presidency will be over by them. Even if he wins again.
Click to expand...

The pullback from these three points was agreed back in 2016. But it was done only now and that took several months to do. If this pace remains, the pullback from the entire frontline will take not 10 years but enternity. 

Of course we need to accelerate this significantly. But this is possible only with realization of other plans of the settlement of the conflict.


----------



## Stratford57

eagle1462010 said:


> And I read several polls that the entire nation was divided almost equally over going to the EU versus going to Russia.............Believe some said 45% to 48%.........in Crimea it's mostly pro Russia........
> 
> What that guy had was pretty crazy...........leads me to believe he was pilfering the countries money..  Also he was trending towards the EU, but after Sanctions from Russia went the other way.
> 
> It appears the country is divided between EU and Russia.......almost equally from east to west.  I watched the violence from both sides of the equation.  Takes 2 to tango



Which sanctions? On the contrary, Russia loaned 3 billion to Ukraine in 2013 which Ukrainian officials refused to return after the coup.

The debt dates to 2013 when Moscow offered the loan to Ukraine under former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych,
Russia to sue Ukraine over $3 billion debt default | DW | 01.01.2016


Dimitri Simes to a Russian Channel One:
For years Manafort worked as a political operator in Ukraine, providing pro-American tilt in Ukrainian foreign policy and according to American Media was a law-abiding person. But Manafort was discouraging Yanukovich from entering the EU, on the contrary, he suggested to be very very careful about that (making current Ukrainian rulers pretty mad).

*We are seeing more and more Ukrainian fingerprints in 2016 elections*. As you know Manaforts’ problems started when Ukrainian prosecutors found a document (without Manafort’s signature) with his “confession” about receiving millions of dollars for serving Yanukovich. It’s interesting that *Ukrainian prosecutors launched that process during elections so that Manafort had to leave Trump’s team*. And shortly after that the case has died down and Ukrainian prosecutors have NEVER charged Manafort. Many Republicans think Kiev just wanted to create problems for Manafort during elections time.

Mueller has been “investigating” Russian collusion. *Manafort never has been involved with any Russians, *but they subscribe him working for pro-Russian president Yanukovich. *How come Yanukovich is called pro-Russian if all his advisers were Americans?*
Dimitri K. Simes – Center for the National Interest


Stephen Cohen: _The American media coverage of Ukraine is wrong and inflammatory from beginning to end. _

_Why did the European Union tell the democratically elected president of such a profoundly divided country, two Ukraines, in November, that he must decide either/or, you’re either with Europe, or you’re with Russia? *That’s a provocation, and that’s where this began.* And here’s what’s not reported._
The Real Reason the US Media Hates Vladimir Putin - Daily Reckoning

Merry Christmas, Eagle!


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> The pullback from these three points was agreed back in 2016. But it was done only now and that took several months to do. If this pace remains, the pullback from the entire frontline will take not 10 years but enternity.
> 
> Of course we need to accelerate this significantly. But this is possible only with realization of other plans of the settlement of the conflict.


So, does Ukrainian chief and commander control the troops on the border or not?

How do you like a minister Avakov's comment of his boss' actions in Paris "No capitulation" before his president even started press conference? Was it proper?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I read several polls that the entire nation was divided almost equally over going to the EU versus going to Russia.............Believe some said 45% to 48%.........in Crimea it's mostly pro Russia........
> 
> What that guy had was pretty crazy...........leads me to believe he was pilfering the countries money..  Also he was trending towards the EU, but after Sanctions from Russia went the other way.
> 
> It appears the country is divided between EU and Russia.......almost equally from east to west.  I watched the violence from both sides of the equation.  Takes 2 to tango
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which sanctions? On the contrary, Russia loaned 3 billion to Ukraine in 2013 which Ukrainian officials refused to return after the coup.
> 
> The debt dates to 2013 when Moscow offered the loan to Ukraine under former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych,
> Russia to sue Ukraine over $3 billion debt default | DW | 01.01.2016
> 
> 
> Dimitri Simes to a Russian Channel One:
> For years Manafort worked as a political operator in Ukraine, providing pro-American tilt in Ukrainian foreign policy and according to American Media was a law-abiding person. But Manafort was discouraging Yanukovich from entering the EU, on the contrary, he suggested to be very very careful about that (making current Ukrainian rulers pretty mad).
> 
> *We are seeing more and more Ukrainian fingerprints in 2016 elections*. As you know Manaforts’ problems started when Ukrainian prosecutors found a document (without Manafort’s signature) with his “confession” about receiving millions of dollars for serving Yanukovich. It’s interesting that *Ukrainian prosecutors launched that process during elections so that Manafort had to leave Trump’s team*. And shortly after that the case has died down and Ukrainian prosecutors have NEVER charged Manafort. Many Republicans think Kiev just wanted to create problems for Manafort during elections time.
> 
> Mueller has been “investigating” Russian collusion. *Manafort never has been involved with any Russians, *but they subscribe him working for pro-Russian president Yanukovich. *How come Yanukovich is called pro-Russian if all his advisers were Americans?*
> Dimitri K. Simes – Center for the National Interest
> 
> 
> Stephen Cohen: _The American media coverage of Ukraine is wrong and inflammatory from beginning to end. _
> 
> _Why did the European Union tell the democratically elected president of such a profoundly divided country, two Ukraines, in November, that he must decide either/or, you’re either with Europe, or you’re with Russia? *That’s a provocation, and that’s where this began.* And here’s what’s not reported._
> The Real Reason the US Media Hates Vladimir Putin - Daily Reckoning
> 
> Merry Christmas, Eagle!
Click to expand...


*The debt dates to 2013 when Moscow offered the loan to Ukraine under former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych,*

They have Yanukovych, they should collect from him.


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *The debt dates to 2013 when Moscow offered the loan to Ukraine under former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych,*
> 
> They have Yanukovych, they should collect from him.


Oh, wow! you must be smarter than the British judge!

Russia won an early verdict in a London lawsuit that may force Ukraine to repay part of a defaulted $3 billion bond, in a dispute that extended the battle over Russia’s annexation of Crimea into a U.K courtroom.

Judge William Blair threw out all of Ukraine’s arguments , saying he was at pains to distinguish between the law and the "troubling" political background. He ruled the case shouldn’t go to a full trial but gave Ukraine the right to appeal.
Russia Wins Early Verdict in $3 Billion Ukrainian Bond Case


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The debt dates to 2013 when Moscow offered the loan to Ukraine under former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych,*
> 
> They have Yanukovych, they should collect from him.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, wow! you must be smarter than the British judge!
> 
> Russia won an early verdict in a London lawsuit that may force Ukraine to repay part of a defaulted $3 billion bond, in a dispute that extended the battle over Russia’s annexation of Crimea into a U.K courtroom.
> 
> Judge William Blair threw out all of Ukraine’s arguments , saying he was at pains to distinguish between the law and the "troubling" political background. He ruled the case shouldn’t go to a full trial but gave Ukraine the right to appeal.
> Russia Wins Early Verdict in $3 Billion Ukrainian Bond Case
Click to expand...


That reminds me, when are the Commies going to pay off all the old Czarist debt?


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> That reminds me, when are the Commies going to pay off all the old Czarist debt?


May be after USA pay their debt, ha? 

BTW, when are USA going to pay their debt?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> That reminds me, when are the Commies going to pay off all the old Czarist debt?
> 
> 
> 
> May be after USA pay their debt, ha?
> 
> BTW, when are USA going to pay their debt?
Click to expand...


The USA hasn't defaulted on any debt, silly Commie.


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> That reminds me, when are the Commies going to pay off all the old Czarist debt?
> 
> 
> 
> May be after USA pay their debt, ha?
> 
> BTW, when are USA going to pay their debt?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The USA hasn't defaulted on any debt, silly Commie.
Click to expand...

Ok, and Commies actually killed the Czar, dear smart person. Stay with the subject of the thread if you would.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> That reminds me, when are the Commies going to pay off all the old Czarist debt?
> 
> 
> 
> May be after USA pay their debt, ha?
> 
> BTW, when are USA going to pay their debt?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The USA hasn't defaulted on any debt, silly Commie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, and Commies actually killed the Czar, dear smart person. Stay with the subject of the thread if you would.
Click to expand...


Killing the Czar doesn't mean Commies can just default on their debt.

Still working on the list of differences between Nazis and Commies?
Or are you admitting they're basically the same thing?


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> That reminds me, when are the Commies going to pay off all the old Czarist debt?
> 
> 
> 
> May be after USA pay their debt, ha?
> 
> BTW, when are USA going to pay their debt?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The USA hasn't defaulted on any debt, silly Commie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, and Commies actually killed the Czar, dear smart person. Stay with the subject of the thread if you would.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Killing the Czar doesn't mean Commies can just default on their debt.
> 
> Still working on the list of differences between Nazis and Commies?
> Or are you admitting they're basically the same thing?
Click to expand...

I can only admit you don't belong to the forum because you are constantly  trying to derail the threads.


----------



## ph3iron

Stratford57 said:


> Soros and Obama’s administration have also tuned Ukraine into a cozy place for breeding, training and recruiting of Neo-Nazis. FBI agents and several Congressmen have been trying to attract the people attention but...American  Media has been sooooo silent about that.
> 
> 1. Criminal Complaint of special FBI agent Scott Bierwirth
> https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...laint/0f1e76cdeef814133f24/optimized/full.pdf
> 
> Page 9:
> In August 2018 RAM members had a trip in Ukraine and met with Olena Semenyaka the leader of a political party in Ukraine which was found out of a military regiment  called Azov Battalion. *Azov Battalion is a paramilitary unit of Ukrainian National Guard which is known for its association with Neo-Nazi ideology and use of Nazi symbolism and which is believed to have participated in training and radicalizing United States-based white supremacy organizations.*
> 
> !!!! RAM is an extremist group headquartered in S. California.
> 
> Olena Semenyaka’s picture:
> View attachment 291322
> 
> 2. October 16, 2019 , *Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?*
> 
> “White supremacist violent extremism, one type of racially- and ethnically-motivated violent extremism, is one of the most potent forces driving domestic terrorism.” Rose’s letter names *Azov Battalion*, Nordic Resistance Movement, and National Action as three examples of foreign groups that have been *connected to recent terrorist attacks around the world as well as recruiting and influencing American citizens*.
> 
> The shooter in the Christchurch, New Zeeland, was also trained in Azov Battalion.
> Rose Leads Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?
> 
> 
> 3. KYIV, Ukraine—When Deputy Secretary of State George Kent spoke at the U.S. House of Representatives impeachment hearings this week, he painted a powerful picture of Ukrainian bravery in the face of Russian aggression.
> 
> But Kent most likely did not have in mind the most famous—and infamous—of those volunteer units, the Azov Battalion, which *40 members of Congress have asked the State Department to designate as a Foreign Terrorist Organization.* Some of its members are neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and avowed anti-Semites.
> Ukraine’s Anti-Russia Azov Battalion: ‘Minutemen’ or Neo-Nazi Terrorists?
> 
> 
> 4. Ex FBI agent Ali Soufan:
> 
> And what Syria did for jihadists, Ukraine is doing for white supremacists. “It’s had a galvanizing effect,” Blazakis said. “It’s given them, for lack of a better word, a playground in which there is turmoil and chaos, a kind of playground that doesn’t exist in a conventional sense in places like the United States.”
> 
> One of the most prominent destinations for these fighters is the *Azov Battalion, a pro-Ukrainian force that analysts say has embraced neo-Nazi views while targeting right-wing or white supremacist groups around the world for recruitment.*
> Ukraine's Civil War Is a 'Playground' for White Supremacists. What Could Go Wrong?
> 
> Pictures of Azov Battalion:
> 
> View attachment 291323
> 
> View attachment 291324
> 
> View attachment 291325
> 
> View attachment 291326
> 
> How come American journalists have not reported about such a Nazi nest in the middle of Europe? Russian journalists have been good about reporting this problem. All the facts above are from their Nov 22 news release:
> 
> www.1tv.ru/news/issue/2019-11-22/21:00#4


Maybe because there's a big Nazi nest here at home?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> That reminds me, when are the Commies going to pay off all the old Czarist debt?
> 
> 
> 
> May be after USA pay their debt, ha?
> 
> BTW, when are USA going to pay their debt?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The USA hasn't defaulted on any debt, silly Commie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, and Commies actually killed the Czar, dear smart person. Stay with the subject of the thread if you would.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Killing the Czar doesn't mean Commies can just default on their debt.
> 
> Still working on the list of differences between Nazis and Commies?
> Or are you admitting they're basically the same thing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can only admit you don't belong to the forum because you are constantly  trying to derail the threads.
Click to expand...


The subject was your whining about fake Nazis.

Nazis are the same as Commies, so clean up Russia before you worry about Ukraine.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Bleipriester said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester , I do not agree with everything Trump says and does. But he's Deep State's wortst enemy and Deep State is our worst enemy . And an enemy of my enemy is my friend. In any case I think Trump is an honest and brave person and a patriot to be able to confront with the most powerful in the world Deep State machine which has destroyed lots of those tho dared to disagree with them.
> 
> But I would care less about USA if they just minded their own business and did NOT interfere in my home country of Ukraine. But they did and now "independent" Ukraine is totally dependent on Americans, their Deep State. Biden's case is just a tip of the iceberg of their corruption and crimes in Ukraine.
> 
> Franko Frattini, Italian Minister of Foreign affairs: “*What happens in Washington doesn’t stay in Washington: it comes to my country, it affects everybody *I’d like to tell my USA colleagues: don’t make one sided decisions. EU sometimes is afraid to stand for its interests especially when its interests contradict USA interests. And it’s not right.”
> 
> Press conference during Moscow Festival of Youth and Students
> 
> 
> 
> Phrump is the filth of Deep State, shat into office by Deep State with false slogans of peace and taking back America.
Click to expand...


and anybody who thinks otherwise that he is any different than warmongers Bush and Obama and clinton before them,those doubts can be put to rest right here and now.

same as Bush clinton and obama,he is a servant to the bankers and the CIA.

Why Trump Is A Rothschild Tool


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> That reminds me, when are the Commies going to pay off all the old Czarist debt?
> 
> 
> 
> May be after USA pay their debt, ha?
> 
> BTW, when are USA going to pay their debt?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The USA hasn't defaulted on any debt, silly Commie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, and Commies actually killed the Czar, dear smart person. Stay with the subject of the thread if you would.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Killing the Czar doesn't mean Commies can just default on their debt.
> 
> Still working on the list of differences between Nazis and Commies?
> Or are you admitting they're basically the same thing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can only admit you don't belong to the forum because you are constantly  trying to derail the threads.
Click to expand...


best damn post on this thread.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> The pullback from these three points was agreed back in 2016. But it was done only now and that took several months to do. If this pace remains, the pullback from the entire frontline will take not 10 years but enternity.
> 
> Of course we need to accelerate this significantly. But this is possible only with realization of other plans of the settlement of the conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> So, does Ukrainian chief and commander control the troops on the border or not?
> 
> How do you like a minister Avakov's comment of his boss' actions in Paris "No capitulation" before his president even started press conference? Was it proper?
Click to expand...

Of course Zelensky controls the troops. But if we are talking about so called volunteers, then this is not so simple. 

Some journalist asked Avakov about the result of negotiations. He gave his answer. So, what is the problem?


----------



## Bleipriester

LA RAM FAN said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester , I do not agree with everything Trump says and does. But he's Deep State's wortst enemy and Deep State is our worst enemy . And an enemy of my enemy is my friend. In any case I think Trump is an honest and brave person and a patriot to be able to confront with the most powerful in the world Deep State machine which has destroyed lots of those tho dared to disagree with them.
> 
> But I would care less about USA if they just minded their own business and did NOT interfere in my home country of Ukraine. But they did and now "independent" Ukraine is totally dependent on Americans, their Deep State. Biden's case is just a tip of the iceberg of their corruption and crimes in Ukraine.
> 
> Franko Frattini, Italian Minister of Foreign affairs: “*What happens in Washington doesn’t stay in Washington: it comes to my country, it affects everybody *I’d like to tell my USA colleagues: don’t make one sided decisions. EU sometimes is afraid to stand for its interests especially when its interests contradict USA interests. And it’s not right.”
> 
> Press conference during Moscow Festival of Youth and Students
> 
> 
> 
> Phrump is the filth of Deep State, shat into office by Deep State with false slogans of peace and taking back America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and anybody who thinks otherwise that he is any different than warmongers Bush and Obama and clinton before them,those doubts can be put to rest right here and now.
> 
> same as Bush clinton and obama,he is a servant to the bankers and the CIA.
> 
> Why Trump Is A Rothschild Tool
Click to expand...

It is Christmas Eve, so lets not insult the orange phrump at least for this day.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Of course Zelensky controls the troops. But if we are talking about so called volunteers, then this is not so simple.


If he controlled the troops they could clean up the mess with those "volunteers" on the border (which is only 400+km if I'm not mistaken) and withdraw from it within several months, not 10 years. But the problem is that Ukrainian _chief and commander_ seems to be afraid of those "volunteers". I can't think about any other explanations.



ESay said:


> Some journalist asked Avakov about the result of negotiations. He gave his answer. So, what is the problem?



Talking "No Capitulation"  about his boss  in public seems normal to you?

To me it looked like Avakov brought a virgin to Paris and left her alone with machos for six hours. After that he was happy to tell the crowd: "She's still a virgin!" Unethical, stupid, ridiculous, embarrassing.


----------



## Stratford57

Bleipriester said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester , I do not agree with everything Trump says and does. But he's Deep State's wortst enemy and Deep State is our worst enemy . And an enemy of my enemy is my friend. In any case I think Trump is an honest and brave person and a patriot to be able to confront with the most powerful in the world Deep State machine which has destroyed lots of those tho dared to disagree with them.
> 
> But I would care less about USA if they just minded their own business and did NOT interfere in my home country of Ukraine. But they did and now "independent" Ukraine is totally dependent on Americans, their Deep State. Biden's case is just a tip of the iceberg of their corruption and crimes in Ukraine.
> 
> Franko Frattini, Italian Minister of Foreign affairs: “*What happens in Washington doesn’t stay in Washington: it comes to my country, it affects everybody *I’d like to tell my USA colleagues: don’t make one sided decisions. EU sometimes is afraid to stand for its interests especially when its interests contradict USA interests. And it’s not right.”
> 
> Press conference during Moscow Festival of Youth and Students
> 
> 
> 
> Phrump is the filth of Deep State, shat into office by Deep State with false slogans of peace and taking back America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and anybody who thinks otherwise that he is any different than warmongers Bush and Obama and clinton before them,those doubts can be put to rest right here and now.
> 
> same as Bush clinton and obama,he is a servant to the bankers and the CIA.
> 
> Why Trump Is A Rothschild Tool
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Christmas Eve, so lets not insult the orange phrump at least for this day.
Click to expand...

You guys better start thanking God that Hillary did not become POTUS. Otherwise you all would have already been transgenders and at war with Russia. Merry Christmas.


----------



## Bleipriester

Stratford57 said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester , I do not agree with everything Trump says and does. But he's Deep State's wortst enemy and Deep State is our worst enemy . And an enemy of my enemy is my friend. In any case I think Trump is an honest and brave person and a patriot to be able to confront with the most powerful in the world Deep State machine which has destroyed lots of those tho dared to disagree with them.
> 
> But I would care less about USA if they just minded their own business and did NOT interfere in my home country of Ukraine. But they did and now "independent" Ukraine is totally dependent on Americans, their Deep State. Biden's case is just a tip of the iceberg of their corruption and crimes in Ukraine.
> 
> Franko Frattini, Italian Minister of Foreign affairs: “*What happens in Washington doesn’t stay in Washington: it comes to my country, it affects everybody *I’d like to tell my USA colleagues: don’t make one sided decisions. EU sometimes is afraid to stand for its interests especially when its interests contradict USA interests. And it’s not right.”
> 
> Press conference during Moscow Festival of Youth and Students
> 
> 
> 
> Phrump is the filth of Deep State, shat into office by Deep State with false slogans of peace and taking back America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and anybody who thinks otherwise that he is any different than warmongers Bush and Obama and clinton before them,those doubts can be put to rest right here and now.
> 
> same as Bush clinton and obama,he is a servant to the bankers and the CIA.
> 
> Why Trump Is A Rothschild Tool
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Christmas Eve, so lets not insult the orange phrump at least for this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You guys better start thanking God that Hillary did not become POTUS. Otherwise you all would have already been transgenders and at war with Russia. Merry Christmas.
Click to expand...

Hillary is President.


----------



## eagle1462010




----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course Zelensky controls the troops. But if we are talking about so called volunteers, then this is not so simple.
> 
> 
> 
> If he controlled the troops they could clean up the mess with those "volunteers" on the border (which is only 400+km if I'm not mistaken) and withdraw from it within several months, not 10 years. But the problem is that Ukrainian _chief and commander_ seems to be afraid of those "volunteers". I can't think about any other explanations.
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some journalist asked Avakov about the result of negotiations. He gave his answer. So, what is the problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Talking "No Capitulation"  about his boss  in public seems normal to you?
> 
> To me it looked like Avakov brought a virgin to Paris and left her alone with machos for six hours. After that he was happy to tell the crowd: "She's still a virgin!" Unethical, stupid, ridiculous, embarrassing.
Click to expand...

First of all, it isn't a border. It is a frontline. 

As I said before, the pullback from the entire frontline isnt possible as an isolated action. The full scale pullback will be possible when political settlement of the conflict really begins. 

As I said before I don't consider the Avakov's comment as something special. Avakov didn't bring anyone. That is ridiculous. 

Zelensky hadn't had expierence in political and diplomatic affairs. And some people thought that he wasnt be able to hold pressure from his 'partners'. But it seems that he was good.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course Zelensky controls the troops. But if we are talking about so called volunteers, then this is not so simple.
> 
> 
> 
> If he controlled the troops they could clean up the mess with those "volunteers" on the border (which is only 400+km if I'm not mistaken) and withdraw from it within several months, not 10 years. But the problem is that Ukrainian _chief and commander_ seems to be afraid of those "volunteers". I can't think about any other explanations.
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some journalist asked Avakov about the result of negotiations. He gave his answer. So, what is the problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Talking "No Capitulation"  about his boss  in public seems normal to you?
> 
> To me it looked like Avakov brought a virgin to Paris and left her alone with machos for six hours. After that he was happy to tell the crowd: "She's still a virgin!" Unethical, stupid, ridiculous, embarrassing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> First of all, it isn't a border. It is a frontline.
> 
> As I said before, the pullback from the entire frontline isnt possible as an isolated action. The full scale pullback will be possible when political settlement of the conflict really begins.
> 
> As I said before I don't consider the Avakov's comment as something special. Avakov didn't bring anyone. That is ridiculous.
> 
> Zelensky hadn't had expierence in political and diplomatic affairs. And some people thought that he wasnt be able to hold pressure from his 'partners'. But it seems that he was good.
Click to expand...

And that's the major problem in Ukraine: those who support a new Washington project called "Independent Ukraine" consider normal the things which are far from normal and visa versa. Thanks to crooked  Media, politicians, teachers, etc. who keep working for  foreign agents [like Deep State] against their own people.

That's why Crimea has already left Ukraine, Donbass is about to leave and Eastern Ukraine is hoping to leave one day.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course Zelensky controls the troops. But if we are talking about so called volunteers, then this is not so simple.
> 
> 
> 
> If he controlled the troops they could clean up the mess with those "volunteers" on the border (which is only 400+km if I'm not mistaken) and withdraw from it within several months, not 10 years. But the problem is that Ukrainian _chief and commander_ seems to be afraid of those "volunteers". I can't think about any other explanations.
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some journalist asked Avakov about the result of negotiations. He gave his answer. So, what is the problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Talking "No Capitulation"  about his boss  in public seems normal to you?
> 
> To me it looked like Avakov brought a virgin to Paris and left her alone with machos for six hours. After that he was happy to tell the crowd: "She's still a virgin!" Unethical, stupid, ridiculous, embarrassing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> First of all, it isn't a border. It is a frontline.
> 
> As I said before, the pullback from the entire frontline isnt possible as an isolated action. The full scale pullback will be possible when political settlement of the conflict really begins.
> 
> As I said before I don't consider the Avakov's comment as something special. Avakov didn't bring anyone. That is ridiculous.
> 
> Zelensky hadn't had expierence in political and diplomatic affairs. And some people thought that he wasnt be able to hold pressure from his 'partners'. But it seems that he was good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And that's the major problem in Ukraine: those who support a new Washington project called "Independent Ukraine" consider normal the things which are far from normal and visa versa. Thanks to crooked  Media, politicians, teachers, etc. who keep working for  foreign agents [like Deep State] against their own people.
> 
> That's why Crimea has already left Ukraine, Donbass is about to leave and Eastern Ukraine is hoping to leave one day.
Click to expand...

How is that Donbas about to leave? Haven't you heard about the Minsk agreements? Haven't your musters of puppets from the Kremlin told you that it is official Kiev doesn't want Donbas returning and is doing everything to prevent this?


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course Zelensky controls the troops. But if we are talking about so called volunteers, then this is not so simple.
> 
> 
> 
> If he controlled the troops they could clean up the mess with those "volunteers" on the border (which is only 400+km if I'm not mistaken) and withdraw from it within several months, not 10 years. But the problem is that Ukrainian _chief and commander_ seems to be afraid of those "volunteers". I can't think about any other explanations.
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some journalist asked Avakov about the result of negotiations. He gave his answer. So, what is the problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Talking "No Capitulation"  about his boss  in public seems normal to you?
> 
> To me it looked like Avakov brought a virgin to Paris and left her alone with machos for six hours. After that he was happy to tell the crowd: "She's still a virgin!" Unethical, stupid, ridiculous, embarrassing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> First of all, it isn't a border. It is a frontline.
> 
> As I said before, the pullback from the entire frontline isnt possible as an isolated action. The full scale pullback will be possible when political settlement of the conflict really begins.
> 
> As I said before I don't consider the Avakov's comment as something special. Avakov didn't bring anyone. That is ridiculous.
> 
> Zelensky hadn't had expierence in political and diplomatic affairs. And some people thought that he wasnt be able to hold pressure from his 'partners'. But it seems that he was good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And that's the major problem in Ukraine: those who support a new Washington project called "Independent Ukraine" consider normal the things which are far from normal and visa versa. Thanks to crooked  Media, politicians, teachers, etc. who keep working for  foreign agents [like Deep State] against their own people.
> 
> That's why Crimea has already left Ukraine, Donbass is about to leave and Eastern Ukraine is hoping to leave one day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is that Donbas about to leave? Haven't you heard about the Minsk agreements? Haven't your musters of puppets from the Kremlin told you that it is official Kiev doesn't want Donbas returning and is doing everything to prevent this?
Click to expand...


As far as I know official Kiev calls DNR and LNR "terrorists organizations" and only wants to return "_the territories_" of Donbass.  With such a "friendly" approach and with withdrawing stretched for 10 years (and it's only one of many steps mentioned in Minsk Agreements) Ukraine can kiss Donbass good bye. Besides Ukrainian officials (unlike their brainwashed sheep) know who keeps shelling Donbass and killing its civilians for 5 last years, and it's not Putin. I doubt the Donbass people can ever trust Ukraine again  as long as it stays under Deep State and Nazi control.

CIS-EMO political analyst of an International Monitoring Organization, Stanislav Byshok :

Honestly, I don’t understand why Ukraine needs Donbass. Let’s suggest tomorrow all the rebels will put their weapons aside and Ukraine will have its border with Russia back, what will Ukraine gain? Four million people, who have a lot of reasons to hate Ukraine, all those people will have to be supplied with jobs and food.
http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/04/the-truth-about-ukraine-byshoks-lecture.html

These people will NEVER vote for Deep State Ukrainian puppets and those puppets know that pretty darn well.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course Zelensky controls the troops. But if we are talking about so called volunteers, then this is not so simple.
> 
> 
> 
> If he controlled the troops they could clean up the mess with those "volunteers" on the border (which is only 400+km if I'm not mistaken) and withdraw from it within several months, not 10 years. But the problem is that Ukrainian _chief and commander_ seems to be afraid of those "volunteers". I can't think about any other explanations.
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some journalist asked Avakov about the result of negotiations. He gave his answer. So, what is the problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Talking "No Capitulation"  about his boss  in public seems normal to you?
> 
> To me it looked like Avakov brought a virgin to Paris and left her alone with machos for six hours. After that he was happy to tell the crowd: "She's still a virgin!" Unethical, stupid, ridiculous, embarrassing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> First of all, it isn't a border. It is a frontline.
> 
> As I said before, the pullback from the entire frontline isnt possible as an isolated action. The full scale pullback will be possible when political settlement of the conflict really begins.
> 
> As I said before I don't consider the Avakov's comment as something special. Avakov didn't bring anyone. That is ridiculous.
> 
> Zelensky hadn't had expierence in political and diplomatic affairs. And some people thought that he wasnt be able to hold pressure from his 'partners'. But it seems that he was good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And that's the major problem in Ukraine: those who support a new Washington project called "Independent Ukraine" consider normal the things which are far from normal and visa versa. Thanks to crooked  Media, politicians, teachers, etc. who keep working for  foreign agents [like Deep State] against their own people.
> 
> That's why Crimea has already left Ukraine, Donbass is about to leave and Eastern Ukraine is hoping to leave one day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is that Donbas about to leave? Haven't you heard about the Minsk agreements? Haven't your musters of puppets from the Kremlin told you that it is official Kiev doesn't want Donbas returning and is doing everything to prevent this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As far as I know official Kiev calls DNR and LNR "terrorists organizations" and only wants to return "_the territories_" of Donbass.  With such a "friendly" approach and with withdrawing stretched for 10 years (and it's only one of many steps mentioned in Minsk Agreements) Ukraine can kiss Donbass good bye. Besides Ukrainian officials (unlike their brainwashed sheep) know who keeps shelling Donbass and killing its civilians for 5 last years, and it's not Putin. I doubt the Donbass people can ever trust Ukraine again  as long as it stays under Deep State and Nazi control.
> 
> CIS-EMO political analyst of an International Monitoring Organization, Stanislav Byshok :
> 
> Honestly, I don’t understand why Ukraine needs Donbass. Let’s suggest tomorrow all the rebels will put their weapons aside and Ukraine will have its border with Russia back, what will Ukraine gain? Four million people, who have a lot of reasons to hate Ukraine, all those people will have to be supplied with jobs and food.
> http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/04/the-truth-about-ukraine-byshoks-lecture.html
> 
> These people will NEVER vote for Deep State Ukrainian puppets and those puppets know that pretty darn well.
Click to expand...

I have one question - Have you ever read the Minsk agreements?


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If he controlled the troops they could clean up the mess with those "volunteers" on the border (which is only 400+km if I'm not mistaken) and withdraw from it within several months, not 10 years. But the problem is that Ukrainian _chief and commander_ seems to be afraid of those "volunteers". I can't think about any other explanations.
> 
> Talking "No Capitulation"  about his boss  in public seems normal to you?
> 
> To me it looked like Avakov brought a virgin to Paris and left her alone with machos for six hours. After that he was happy to tell the crowd: "She's still a virgin!" Unethical, stupid, ridiculous, embarrassing.
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, it isn't a border. It is a frontline.
> 
> As I said before, the pullback from the entire frontline isnt possible as an isolated action. The full scale pullback will be possible when political settlement of the conflict really begins.
> 
> As I said before I don't consider the Avakov's comment as something special. Avakov didn't bring anyone. That is ridiculous.
> 
> Zelensky hadn't had expierence in political and diplomatic affairs. And some people thought that he wasnt be able to hold pressure from his 'partners'. But it seems that he was good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And that's the major problem in Ukraine: those who support a new Washington project called "Independent Ukraine" consider normal the things which are far from normal and visa versa. Thanks to crooked  Media, politicians, teachers, etc. who keep working for  foreign agents [like Deep State] against their own people.
> 
> That's why Crimea has already left Ukraine, Donbass is about to leave and Eastern Ukraine is hoping to leave one day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is that Donbas about to leave? Haven't you heard about the Minsk agreements? Haven't your musters of puppets from the Kremlin told you that it is official Kiev doesn't want Donbas returning and is doing everything to prevent this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As far as I know official Kiev calls DNR and LNR "terrorists organizations" and only wants to return "_the territories_" of Donbass.  With such a "friendly" approach and with withdrawing stretched for 10 years (and it's only one of many steps mentioned in Minsk Agreements) Ukraine can kiss Donbass good bye. Besides Ukrainian officials (unlike their brainwashed sheep) know who keeps shelling Donbass and killing its civilians for 5 last years, and it's not Putin. I doubt the Donbass people can ever trust Ukraine again  as long as it stays under Deep State and Nazi control.
> 
> CIS-EMO political analyst of an International Monitoring Organization, Stanislav Byshok :
> 
> Honestly, I don’t understand why Ukraine needs Donbass. Let’s suggest tomorrow all the rebels will put their weapons aside and Ukraine will have its border with Russia back, what will Ukraine gain? Four million people, who have a lot of reasons to hate Ukraine, all those people will have to be supplied with jobs and food.
> http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/04/the-truth-about-ukraine-byshoks-lecture.html
> 
> These people will NEVER vote for Deep State Ukrainian puppets and those puppets know that pretty darn well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have one question - Have you ever read the Minsk agreements?
Click to expand...

Have you?

In case you haven't:

Here are the key points of the new plan :

*1. Immediate and full bilateral ceasefire*

To take effect in parts of Donetsk and Luhansk regions, from 00:00 local time on 15 February (22:00 GMT on 14 February).

*2. Withdrawal of all heavy weapons by both sides*

To equal distances to create a buffer zone of: at least 50km (30 miles) separating both sides for artillery systems of 100mm calibre or more; 70km for multiple rocket systems and 140km for the heaviest rocket and missile systems such as Tornado, Uragan, Smerch and Tochka.

Ukrainian troops to withdraw heavy weapons from the current frontline.

Separatist forces to withdraw theirs from the line of 19 September 2014.

Heavy weapons withdrawal must start no later than day two of the ceasefire and be completed within two weeks. The OSCE security body will assist in the process.

*3. Effective monitoring and verification regime for the ceasefire and withdrawal of heavy weapons*

To be carried out by the OSCE from day one, using all necessary technology such as satellites and radar.

*4. From day one of the withdrawal begin a dialogue on the holding of local elections*

In line with the Ukrainian law on temporary self-rule for parts of Donetsk and Luhansk. There will also be a dialogue on those areas' political future.

*5. Pardon and amnesty by banning any prosecution of figures involved in the Donetsk and Luhansk conflict*

*6. Release of all hostages and other illegally detained people*

On the basis of "all for all". To be completed at the latest on the fifth day after the military withdrawal.

Image copyrightAFPImage captionThe Minsk leaders (from left: Vladimir Putin, Francois Hollande, Angela Merkel, Petro Poroshenko)

*7. Unimpeded delivery of humanitarian aid to the needy, internationally supervised*

*8. Restoration of full social and economic links with affected areas*

Including social transfers, such as payment of pensions. To that end, Ukraine will restore its banking services in districts affected by the conflict.

*9. Full Ukrainian government control will be restored over the state border, throughout the conflict zone*

To begin on the first day after local elections, and be completed after a comprehensive political settlement, by the end of 2015. (Local elections in rebel-controlled Donetsk and Luhansk regions will be based on Ukrainian law and a constitutional reform.)

*10. Withdrawal of all foreign armed groups, weapons and mercenaries from Ukrainian territory*

To be monitored by the OSCE. All illegal groups to be disarmed.

*11. Constitutional reform in Ukraine, with adoption of a new constitution by the end of 2015*

Ukraine ceasefire: New Minsk agreement

Withdrawal still remains one step of many. So?


----------



## Stratford57

Bleipriester said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester , I do not agree with everything Trump says and does. But he's Deep State's wortst enemy and Deep State is our worst enemy . And an enemy of my enemy is my friend. In any case I think Trump is an honest and brave person and a patriot to be able to confront with the most powerful in the world Deep State machine which has destroyed lots of those tho dared to disagree with them.
> 
> But I would care less about USA if they just minded their own business and did NOT interfere in my home country of Ukraine. But they did and now "independent" Ukraine is totally dependent on Americans, their Deep State. Biden's case is just a tip of the iceberg of their corruption and crimes in Ukraine.
> 
> Franko Frattini, Italian Minister of Foreign affairs: “*What happens in Washington doesn’t stay in Washington: it comes to my country, it affects everybody *I’d like to tell my USA colleagues: don’t make one sided decisions. EU sometimes is afraid to stand for its interests especially when its interests contradict USA interests. And it’s not right.”
> 
> Press conference during Moscow Festival of Youth and Students
> 
> 
> 
> Phrump is the filth of Deep State, shat into office by Deep State with false slogans of peace and taking back America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and anybody who thinks otherwise that he is any different than warmongers Bush and Obama and clinton before them,those doubts can be put to rest right here and now.
> 
> same as Bush clinton and obama,he is a servant to the bankers and the CIA.
> 
> Why Trump Is A Rothschild Tool
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Christmas Eve, so lets not insult the orange phrump at least for this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You guys better start thanking God that Hillary did not become POTUS. Otherwise you all would have already been transgenders and at war with Russia. Merry Christmas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hillary is President.
Click to expand...


President of what? May be  of those:






or those:





?

Or all above? Choose wisely before you answer.


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## Bleipriester

Stratford57 said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Phrump is the filth of Deep State, shat into office by Deep State with false slogans of peace and taking back America.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and anybody who thinks otherwise that he is any different than warmongers Bush and Obama and clinton before them,those doubts can be put to rest right here and now.
> 
> same as Bush clinton and obama,he is a servant to the bankers and the CIA.
> 
> Why Trump Is A Rothschild Tool
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Christmas Eve, so lets not insult the orange phrump at least for this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You guys better start thanking God that Hillary did not become POTUS. Otherwise you all would have already been transgenders and at war with Russia. Merry Christmas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hillary is President.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> President of what? May be  of those:
> 
> View attachment 296676
> 
> 
> or those:
> 
> View attachment 296677
> 
> ?
> 
> Or all above? Choose wisely before you answer.
Click to expand...

Trump, Clinton, there is no difference for your country or mine. 
Again, you want Trump, you get him only together with your nazi puppets, deep state and all the other shit you didn´t like about Obama. So, stop the whining.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, it isn't a border. It is a frontline.
> 
> As I said before, the pullback from the entire frontline isnt possible as an isolated action. The full scale pullback will be possible when political settlement of the conflict really begins.
> 
> As I said before I don't consider the Avakov's comment as something special. Avakov didn't bring anyone. That is ridiculous.
> 
> Zelensky hadn't had expierence in political and diplomatic affairs. And some people thought that he wasnt be able to hold pressure from his 'partners'. But it seems that he was good.
> 
> 
> 
> And that's the major problem in Ukraine: those who support a new Washington project called "Independent Ukraine" consider normal the things which are far from normal and visa versa. Thanks to crooked  Media, politicians, teachers, etc. who keep working for  foreign agents [like Deep State] against their own people.
> 
> That's why Crimea has already left Ukraine, Donbass is about to leave and Eastern Ukraine is hoping to leave one day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is that Donbas about to leave? Haven't you heard about the Minsk agreements? Haven't your musters of puppets from the Kremlin told you that it is official Kiev doesn't want Donbas returning and is doing everything to prevent this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As far as I know official Kiev calls DNR and LNR "terrorists organizations" and only wants to return "_the territories_" of Donbass.  With such a "friendly" approach and with withdrawing stretched for 10 years (and it's only one of many steps mentioned in Minsk Agreements) Ukraine can kiss Donbass good bye. Besides Ukrainian officials (unlike their brainwashed sheep) know who keeps shelling Donbass and killing its civilians for 5 last years, and it's not Putin. I doubt the Donbass people can ever trust Ukraine again  as long as it stays under Deep State and Nazi control.
> 
> CIS-EMO political analyst of an International Monitoring Organization, Stanislav Byshok :
> 
> Honestly, I don’t understand why Ukraine needs Donbass. Let’s suggest tomorrow all the rebels will put their weapons aside and Ukraine will have its border with Russia back, what will Ukraine gain? Four million people, who have a lot of reasons to hate Ukraine, all those people will have to be supplied with jobs and food.
> http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/04/the-truth-about-ukraine-byshoks-lecture.html
> 
> These people will NEVER vote for Deep State Ukrainian puppets and those puppets know that pretty darn well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have one question - Have you ever read the Minsk agreements?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have you?
> 
> In case you haven't:
> 
> Here are the key points of the new plan :
> 
> *1. Immediate and full bilateral ceasefire*
> 
> To take effect in parts of Donetsk and Luhansk regions, from 00:00 local time on 15 February (22:00 GMT on 14 February).
> 
> *2. Withdrawal of all heavy weapons by both sides*
> 
> To equal distances to create a buffer zone of: at least 50km (30 miles) separating both sides for artillery systems of 100mm calibre or more; 70km for multiple rocket systems and 140km for the heaviest rocket and missile systems such as Tornado, Uragan, Smerch and Tochka.
> 
> Ukrainian troops to withdraw heavy weapons from the current frontline.
> 
> Separatist forces to withdraw theirs from the line of 19 September 2014.
> 
> Heavy weapons withdrawal must start no later than day two of the ceasefire and be completed within two weeks. The OSCE security body will assist in the process.
> 
> *3. Effective monitoring and verification regime for the ceasefire and withdrawal of heavy weapons*
> 
> To be carried out by the OSCE from day one, using all necessary technology such as satellites and radar.
> 
> *4. From day one of the withdrawal begin a dialogue on the holding of local elections*
> 
> In line with the Ukrainian law on temporary self-rule for parts of Donetsk and Luhansk. There will also be a dialogue on those areas' political future.
> 
> *5. Pardon and amnesty by banning any prosecution of figures involved in the Donetsk and Luhansk conflict*
> 
> *6. Release of all hostages and other illegally detained people*
> 
> On the basis of "all for all". To be completed at the latest on the fifth day after the military withdrawal.
> 
> Image copyrightAFPImage captionThe Minsk leaders (from left: Vladimir Putin, Francois Hollande, Angela Merkel, Petro Poroshenko)
> 
> *7. Unimpeded delivery of humanitarian aid to the needy, internationally supervised*
> 
> *8. Restoration of full social and economic links with affected areas*
> 
> Including social transfers, such as payment of pensions. To that end, Ukraine will restore its banking services in districts affected by the conflict.
> 
> *9. Full Ukrainian government control will be restored over the state border, throughout the conflict zone*
> 
> To begin on the first day after local elections, and be completed after a comprehensive political settlement, by the end of 2015. (Local elections in rebel-controlled Donetsk and Luhansk regions will be based on Ukrainian law and a constitutional reform.)
> 
> *10. Withdrawal of all foreign armed groups, weapons and mercenaries from Ukrainian territory*
> 
> To be monitored by the OSCE. All illegal groups to be disarmed.
> 
> *11. Constitutional reform in Ukraine, with adoption of a new constitution by the end of 2015*
> 
> Ukraine ceasefire: New Minsk agreement
> 
> Withdrawal still remains one step of many. So?
Click to expand...

Direct answer to the questions is a sign of respect to the one you are talking with and honesty. I am not particularly too high in expectations of this from you, but try not to answer questions with questions. Otherwise you are becoming boring. 

If you have read the agreements, you should know that the mutual pullback should de done from the frontline which was established as of 29 Sept 2014. Do you understand what this means in practice?


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Direct answer to the questions is a sign of respect to the one you are talking with and honesty. I am not particularly too high in expectations of this from you, but try not to answer questions with questions. Otherwise you are becoming boring.


I understand that you are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. BTW, I'm still waiting for your reply to my post #228 which you "replied" with a question. 



ESay said:


> If you have read the agreements, you should know that the mutual pullback should de done from the frontline which was established as of 29 Sept 2014. Do you understand what this means in practice?



I understand that "mutual pullback should be done from the front line " and it's just one step of many. And also I understand the words "be completed after a comprehensive political settlement, by the end of 2015" and it's the end of 2019 today.

Also I understand the words "Heavy weapons withdrawal must start no later than day two of the ceasefire and be completed within two weeks", not 10 years like Zelensky wants.

Anything else I need to understand?


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> I understand that you are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. BTW, I'm still waiting for your reply to my post #228 which you "replied" with a question.


I don't try to make anything. Something tells me that you hadn't read them before my answer. I just prove for myself how uninformed you are.

What should I reply to your post? There weren't any direct questions.

Yes, Ukraine considers DLNR as terrorist organizations. There are no these quasi-state entities in the agreements. There are 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts'. 

Why to return them? Because it is a Ukrainian territory. But we should find a way of co-existense in the single state. There are no simple answers how to do that.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> understand that "mutual pullback should be done from the front line " and it's just one step of many. And also I understand the words "be completed after a comprehensive political settlement, by the end of 2015" and it's the end of 2019 today.
> 
> Also I understand the words "Heavy weapons withdrawal must start no later than day two of the ceasefire and be completed within two weeks", not 10 years like Zelensky wants.
> 
> Anything else I need to understand?


Actually, you understand nothing. According to the Minsk agreements the pullback should be done from the frontline as of September 2014. According to this frontline the city of Debaltsevo belongs to the government held territory. If we are talking about the pullback from the entire frontline, then when the rebels will get out from the city and the surrounding area?


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Yes, Ukraine considers DLNR as terrorist organizations. There are no these quasi-state entities in the agreements. There are 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts'.
> 
> Why to return them? Because it is a Ukrainian territory. But we should find a way of co-existense in the single state. There are no simple answers how to do that.


So, Ukraine wants to return the "territories" without people or the people of DLNR as well (which Ukraine considers "terrorist organizations")?

It means either ethnic cleansing in Donbass (if Ukraine ever gets control of it) or  bringing 4 million of "terrorists" to Ukraine.

What exactly does official Kiev want?


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Actually, you understand nothing. According to the Minsk agreements the pullback should be done from the frontline as of September 2014. According to this frontline the city of Debaltsevo belongs to the government held territory. If we are talking about the pullback from the entire frontline, then when the rebels will get out from the city and the surrounding area?


No, I do not understand why Debaltsevo matters so much: it's just one of 100+ settlements which both sides have to withdraw from. And according to Minsk agreements it should be done a lot sooner that 10 years (which Zelensky has suggested).

Putin, on the contrary, wants to stay with Minsk agreements without revising them.

Putin: There is nothing more important than the Minsk Agreements. Of course, *I was worried by the statement made by President Zelensky after he left Paris to the effect that they could be revised. *If we revise the Minsk Agreements, the settlement process will hit a dead end, because the main element of the Minsk Agreements is a law on the special status of Donbass, which must be formalised in the Ukrainian Constitution. It has been extended for a year, but not permanently, although we keep saying – not only do I, but the other Normandy format leaders say so as well – that the law must be of unlimited duration and that its formula must be incorporated in the Constitution. However, *it appears that neither the previous nor the current Ukrainian leadership wants this.* But there is no way around it. This is the first point.
Vladimir Putin’s annual news conference

Putin: Mr Zelensky and I have different positions on this issue. *Our position is very simple: we stand for the implementation of the Minsk Agreements.* The Minsk Agreements say – _you can read it for yourself_ – that Ukraine will be able to start restoring control over that territory, over that section of the border on day one after the local elections. This is what it says. And this process should end after the completion of a comprehensive political settlement. _This is what the text of the agreement says_. Why should the Minsk Agreements be reopened and revised? All the measures set out in that package are interconnected. *If we revise one of them, this will lead to the revision of others and we will lose the agreements and create a situation where nothing can be done.* This is our logic, and I believe that it is justified.
Joint news conference following a Normandy format summit


----------



## eagle1462010

So..........are both sides still firing on each other and are they still manning front line positions there?


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Ukraine considers DLNR as terrorist organizations. There are no these quasi-state entities in the agreements. There are 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts'.
> 
> Why to return them? Because it is a Ukrainian territory. But we should find a way of co-existense in the single state. There are no simple answers how to do that.
> 
> 
> 
> So, Ukraine wants to return the "territories" without people or the people of DLNR as well (which Ukraine considers "terrorist organizations")?
> 
> It means either ethnic cleansing in Donbass (if Ukraine ever gets control of it) or  bringing 4 million of "terrorists" to Ukraine.
> 
> What exactly does official Kiev want?
Click to expand...

I am not a lawyer, but only those ones who participate in military units of the rebels are considered terrorists. Those ones who hold an official post in their pseudo state branches of authority can be considered as collaborators. It is my understanding. 

Saying that all people in Donbas are considered as terrorists is absurd.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you understand nothing. According to the Minsk agreements the pullback should be done from the frontline as of September 2014. According to this frontline the city of Debaltsevo belongs to the government held territory. If we are talking about the pullback from the entire frontline, then when the rebels will get out from the city and the surrounding area?
> 
> 
> 
> No, I do not understand why Debaltsevo matters so much: it's just one of 100+ settlements which both sides have to withdraw from. And according to Minsk agreements it should be done a lot sooner that 10 years (which Zelensky has suggested).
> 
> Putin, on the contrary, wants to stay with Minsk agreements without revising them.
> 
> Putin: There is nothing more important than the Minsk Agreements. Of course, *I was worried by the statement made by President Zelensky after he left Paris to the effect that they could be revised. *If we revise the Minsk Agreements, the settlement process will hit a dead end, because the main element of the Minsk Agreements is a law on the special status of Donbass, which must be formalised in the Ukrainian Constitution. It has been extended for a year, but not permanently, although we keep saying – not only do I, but the other Normandy format leaders say so as well – that the law must be of unlimited duration and that its formula must be incorporated in the Constitution. However, *it appears that neither the previous nor the current Ukrainian leadership wants this.* But there is no way around it. This is the first point.
> Vladimir Putin’s annual news conference
> 
> Putin: Mr Zelensky and I have different positions on this issue. *Our position is very simple: we stand for the implementation of the Minsk Agreements.* The Minsk Agreements say – _you can read it for yourself_ – that Ukraine will be able to start restoring control over that territory, over that section of the border on day one after the local elections. This is what it says. And this process should end after the completion of a comprehensive political settlement. _This is what the text of the agreement says_. Why should the Minsk Agreements be reopened and revised? All the measures set out in that package are interconnected. *If we revise one of them, this will lead to the revision of others and we will lose the agreements and create a situation where nothing can be done.* This is our logic, and I believe that it is justified.
> Joint news conference following a Normandy format summit
Click to expand...

Because if you want full and literal fulfillment of an agreement, it is understandable that the other part demands the same from you. 

Except of that, Debaltsevo is an important transportation center. Holding it has virtually a strategic importance for the government.


----------



## ESay

eagle1462010 said:


> So..........are both sides still firing on each other and are they still manning front line positions there?


Yes.


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## ph3iron

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> May be after USA pay their debt, ha?
> 
> BTW, when are USA going to pay their debt?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The USA hasn't defaulted on any debt, silly Commie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, and Commies actually killed the Czar, dear smart person. Stay with the subject of the thread if you would.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Killing the Czar doesn't mean Commies can just default on their debt.
> 
> Still working on the list of differences between Nazis and Commies?
> Or are you admitting they're basically the same thing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can only admit you don't belong to the forum because you are constantly  trying to derail the threads.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The subject was your whining about fake Nazis.
> 
> Nazis are the same as Commies, so clean up Russia before you worry about Ukraine.
Click to expand...

This why the cons dad went to a KKK rally?
Great genes


----------



## ph3iron

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> That reminds me, when are the Commies going to pay off all the old Czarist debt?
> 
> 
> 
> May be after USA pay their debt, ha?
> 
> BTW, when are USA going to pay their debt?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The USA hasn't defaulted on any debt, silly Commie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, and Commies actually killed the Czar, dear smart person. Stay with the subject of the thread if you would.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Killing the Czar doesn't mean Commies can just default on their debt.
> 
> Still working on the list of differences between Nazis and Commies?
> Or are you admitting they're basically the same thing?
Click to expand...


Ever bothered to look up the definitions?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

ph3iron said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> That reminds me, when are the Commies going to pay off all the old Czarist debt?
> 
> 
> 
> May be after USA pay their debt, ha?
> 
> BTW, when are USA going to pay their debt?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The USA hasn't defaulted on any debt, silly Commie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, and Commies actually killed the Czar, dear smart person. Stay with the subject of the thread if you would.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Killing the Czar doesn't mean Commies can just default on their debt.
> 
> Still working on the list of differences between Nazis and Commies?
> Or are you admitting they're basically the same thing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ever bothered to look up the definitions?
Click to expand...


You mean where they're both violent, big government forms of socialism?

Maybe you could list the 5 biggest differences?


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> I am not a lawyer, but only those ones who participate in military units of the rebels are considered terrorists. Those ones who hold an official post in their pseudo state branches of authority can be considered as collaborators. It is my understanding.
> 
> Saying that all people in Donbas are considered as terrorists is absurd.


 If you read Minsk Agreements you’ll find out that step #5 says:

*Pardon and amnesty by banning any prosecution of figures involved in the Donetsk and Luhansk conflict*

^ Those exactly are “the ones who participate in military units of the rebels are considered terrorists” as you said. They can NOT be prosecuted according to Minsk Agreements, you don’t have to be a lawyer to see that.

When you call some group of people “a terrorist organization” you mean “the terrorists are all those whom the group consists of ”. When Ukrainian officials call LNR and DNR “terrorist organizations” they obviously mean “all those who belong to those states are  terrorists” otherwise Ukrainian officials would phase their statements somewhat different. It’s absolute absurd, I agree, but so is basically everything they say. I’m surprised there  still are some people in Ukraine who buy that. I wonder why?...


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Because if you want full and literal fulfillment of an agreement, it is understandable that the other part demands the same from you.
> 
> Except of that, Debaltsevo is an important transportation center. Holding it has virtually a strategic importance for the government.


May be it would make sense to start withdrawal from other 100+ settlements and to leave Debaltsevo as is until everything else is done? In any case, Zelensky said he could guarantee withdrawal in another 3 settlements only  until the next Normandy meeting, it doesn’t make any sense to complain about one settlement of Debaltsevo when you have over hundred of others.

So far it sounds like a poor excuse.


----------



## Stratford57

ph3iron said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> That reminds me, when are the Commies going to pay off all the old Czarist debt?
> 
> 
> 
> May be after USA pay their debt, ha?
> 
> BTW, when are USA going to pay their debt?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The USA hasn't defaulted on any debt, silly Commie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, and Commies actually killed the Czar, dear smart person. Stay with the subject of the thread if you would.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Killing the Czar doesn't mean Commies can just default on their debt.
> 
> Still working on the list of differences between Nazis and Commies?
> Or are you admitting they're basically the same thing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ever bothered to look up the definitions?
Click to expand...

Never. He prefers to bother us instead.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> ph3iron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> May be after USA pay their debt, ha?
> 
> BTW, when are USA going to pay their debt?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The USA hasn't defaulted on any debt, silly Commie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, and Commies actually killed the Czar, dear smart person. Stay with the subject of the thread if you would.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Killing the Czar doesn't mean Commies can just default on their debt.
> 
> Still working on the list of differences between Nazis and Commies?
> Or are you admitting they're basically the same thing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ever bothered to look up the definitions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never. He prefers to bother us instead.
Click to expand...


I love when Commies pretend Nazis are more evil.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not a lawyer, but only those ones who participate in military units of the rebels are considered terrorists. Those ones who hold an official post in their pseudo state branches of authority can be considered as collaborators. It is my understanding.
> 
> Saying that all people in Donbas are considered as terrorists is absurd.
> 
> 
> 
> If you read Minsk Agreements you’ll find out that step #5 says:
> 
> *Pardon and amnesty by banning any prosecution of figures involved in the Donetsk and Luhansk conflict*
> 
> ^ Those exactly are “the ones who participate in military units of the rebels are considered terrorists” as you said. They can NOT be prosecuted according to Minsk Agreements, you don’t have to be a lawyer to see that.
> 
> When you call some group of people “a terrorist organization” you mean “the terrorists are all those whom the group consists of ”. When Ukrainian officials call LNR and DNR “terrorist organizations” they obviously mean “all those who belong to those states are  terrorists” otherwise Ukrainian officials would phase their statements somewhat different. It’s absolute absurd, I agree, but so is basically everything they say. I’m surprised there  still are some people in Ukraine who buy that. I wonder why?...
Click to expand...

According to the agreements, a law should be passed about the amnesty. This virtually hasn't be done. 

Predicting your question 'why?'. Because as Ukraine insists, the Minsk agreements should be realizing in complex, not from one clause to another. As I wrote that the pullback can't be an isolated action, similarly the amnesty can't be the same. 

I repeat it once more, there are no any 'states' DNR or LNR. The are 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts' and there are people who live there. Also, there are terrorist organizations DNR and LNR who established pseudo-state branches of authority there and operate military units.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because if you want full and literal fulfillment of an agreement, it is understandable that the other part demands the same from you.
> 
> Except of that, Debaltsevo is an important transportation center. Holding it has virtually a strategic importance for the government.
> 
> 
> 
> May be it would make sense to start withdrawal from other 100+ settlements and to leave Debaltsevo as is until everything else is done? In any case, Zelensky said he could guarantee withdrawal in another 3 settlements only  until the next Normandy meeting, it doesn’t make any sense to complain about one settlement of Debaltsevo when you have over hundred of others.
> 
> So far it sounds like a poor excuse.
Click to expand...

I already told you why Debaltsevo matters. And this town as any place can be included in those '3 settlements'.

I understand that you are playing on the rebels' tune, but why should Ukraine do the same? Follow the demands of your opponent or make concession in yours. That is how things work.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> I repeat it once more, there are no any 'states' DNR or LNR. The are 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts' and there are people who live there. Also, there are terrorist organizations DNR and LNR who established pseudo-state branches of authority there and operate military units.


Even if you repeat "halva" hundred times you won't have a sweet feeling in your mouth )ME saying).

It doesn’t matter if LNR and DNR are pseudo or not pseudo states: without a dialogue with THEM you’ll never see them back. And the longer official Kiev and  the people like yourself keep calling 3 to 4 million of their residents in Donbass “terrorist organizations” the fewer chances will remain for them to be anxious to come back to Ukraine. Also why do you think official Kiev even needs those 3+ million of “terrorists”  back to Ukraine. Please, explain.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> I already told you why Debaltsevo matters. And this town as any place can be included in those '3 settlements'.
> 
> I understand that you are playing on the rebels' tune, but why should Ukraine do the same? Follow the demands of your opponent or make concession in yours. That is how things work.


1. It’s written clearly in Minsk Agreements: Ukrainian control of the border follows  the elections in Donbass. Zelensky clearly said he wanted to do it visa versa: to the elections to follow his control of the border.

2. It’s written clearly in Minsk Agreements: Heavy weapons withdrawal must be completed within two weeks.  Zelensky wants more than 10 years.

3. It’s written clearly in Minsk Agreements: Ukrainian troops to withdraw heavy weapons from the current frontline. Zelensky wants to withdraw only from 3 settlements.

4. Item 5 says:*  Pardon and amnesty by banning any prosecution of figures involved in the Donetsk and Luhansk conflict *which Ukraine is responsible for, not Debaltsevo, not Donbass rebels.

Those^ are only 4 examples of many which clearly show how much Ukraine wants  (actually, does NOT want) “the Minsk agreements  be realizing in complex, not from one clause to another.” (as you said). But at the same time Ukraine tries to distract the attention and points her finger on Debaltsevo. What a farce.

P.S. That was what Putin called "revising of Minsk Agreements" and official Kiev calls "full implementation of Minsk Agreements".


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> I repeat it once more, there are no any 'states' DNR or LNR. The are 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts' and there are people who live there. Also, there are terrorist organizations DNR and LNR who established pseudo-state branches of authority there and operate military units.
> 
> 
> 
> Even if you repeat "halva" hundred times you won't have a sweet feeling in your mouth )ME saying).
> 
> It doesn’t matter if LNR and DNR are pseudo or not pseudo states: without a dialogue with THEM you’ll never see them back. And the longer official Kiev and  the people like yourself keep calling 3 to 4 million of their residents in Donbass “terrorist organizations” the fewer chances will remain for them to be anxious to come back to Ukraine. Also why do you think official Kiev even needs those 3+ million of “terrorists”  back to Ukraine. Please, explain.
Click to expand...

What can I explain to the likes as you are? I have already told you whom Ukraine considers terrorists. Do you have a reading comprehension issue?


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> I already told you why Debaltsevo matters. And this town as any place can be included in those '3 settlements'.
> 
> I understand that you are playing on the rebels' tune, but why should Ukraine do the same? Follow the demands of your opponent or make concession in yours. That is how things work.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. It’s written clearly in Minsk Agreements: Ukrainian control of the border follows  the elections in Donbass. Zelensky clearly said he wanted to do it visa versa: to the elections to follow his control of the border.
> 
> 2. It’s written clearly in Minsk Agreements: Heavy weapons withdrawal must be completed within two weeks.  Zelensky wants more than 10 years.
> 
> 3. It’s written clearly in Minsk Agreements: Ukrainian troops to withdraw heavy weapons from the current frontline. Zelensky wants to withdraw only from 3 settlements.
> 
> 4. Item 5 says:*  Pardon and amnesty by banning any prosecution of figures involved in the Donetsk and Luhansk conflict *which Ukraine is responsible for, not Debaltsevo, not Donbass rebels.
> 
> Those^ are only 4 examples of many which clearly show how much Ukraine wants  (actually, does NOT want) “the Minsk agreements  be realizing in complex, not from one clause to another.” (as you said). But at the same time Ukraine tries to distract the attention and points her finger on Debaltsevo. What a farce.
> 
> P.S. That was what Putin called "revising of Minsk Agreements" and official Kiev calls "full implementation of Minsk Agreements".
Click to expand...

Actually, it is a farce to talk with your ilk. 

Zelensky don't want 10 years to pull the troops back. He is disappointed by the pace and wants to speed up the process. 

It is not only the Ukrainian troops that must withdraw heavy weapons. The rebel militants must do the same. 

Debaltsevo is only one of a number of points in the agreements where the rebels must make concession. And they are not keen to do that. 

The Minsk agreements are a two way road. And it is silly to demand from Ukraine something not offering something back. But you even hadn't bothered to read them until a couple of days ago. What can be discussed with you about this matter? Your ignorance?


----------



## ph3iron

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ph3iron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> The USA hasn't defaulted on any debt, silly Commie.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, and Commyies actually killed the Czar, dear smart person. Stay with the subject of the thread if you would.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Killing the Czar doesn't mean Commies can just default on their debt.
> 
> Still working on the list of differences between Nazis and Commies?
> Or are you admitting they're basically the same thing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ever bothered to look up the definitions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never. He prefers to bother us instead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I love when Commies pretend Nazis are more evil.
Click to expand...


Yup, don't see ayran in the commie def.
Nazi 
a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, which controlled Germany from 1933 to 1945 under Adolf Hitler and advocated totalitarian government, territorial expansion, anti-Semitism, and Aryan supremacy, all these leading directly to World War II and the Holocaust.

Ah,info, too much to ask from trumpanzees/ trump u??


----------



## ph3iron

Toddsterpatriot said:


> ph3iron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> May be after USA pay their debt, ha?
> 
> BTW, when are USA going to pay their debt?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The USA hasn't defaulted on any debt, silly Commie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, and Commies actually killed the Czar, dear smart person. Stay with the subject of the thread if you would.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Killing the Czar doesn't mean Commies can just default on their debt.
> 
> Still working on the list of differences between Nazis and Commies?
> Or are you admitting they're basically the same thing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ever bothered to look up the definitions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean where they're both violent, big government forms of socialism?
> 
> Maybe you could list the 5 biggest differences?
Click to expand...


Why try to explain to a trumpanzee who hasn't had Latin and has no idea of the def of liberal


----------



## ph3iron

Stratford57 said:


> ph3iron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> May be after USA pay their debt, ha?
> 
> BTW, when are USA going to pay their debt?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The USA hasn't defaulted on any debt, silly Commie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, and Commies actually killed the Czar, dear smart person. Stay with the subject of the thread if you would.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Killing the Czar doesn't mean Commies can just default on their debt.
> 
> Still working on the list of differences between Nazis and Commies?
> Or are you admitting they're basically the same thing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ever bothered to look up the definitions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never. He prefers to bother us instead.
Click to expand...


I suspect our zero college patriot didn't know adolf hated commies and socialists.
That why he inserted "national" into his socialist perty.
And lost the war by attacking Russia in the winter.
Ah well


----------



## ph3iron

W


ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not a lawyer, but only those ones who participate in military units of the rebels are considered terrorists. Those ones who hold an official post in their pseudo state branches of authority can be considered as collaborators. It is my understanding.
> 
> Saying that all people in Donbas are considered as terrorists is absurd.
> 
> 
> 
> If you read Minsk Agreements you’ll find out that step #5 says:
> 
> *Pardon and amnesty by banning any prosecution of figures involved in the Donetsk and Luhansk conflict*
> 
> ^ Those exactly are “the ones who participate in military units of the rebels are considered terrorists” as you said. They can NOT be prosecuted according to Minsk Agreements, you don’t have to be a lawyer to see that.
> 
> When you call some group of people “a terrorist organization” you mean “the terrorists are all those whom the group consists of ”. When Ukrainian officials call LNR and DNR “terrorist organizations” they obviously mean “all those who belong to those states are  terrorists” otherwise Ukrainian officials would phase their statements somewhat different. It’s absolute absurd, I agree, but so is basically everything they say. I’m surprised there  still are some people in Ukraine who buy that. I wonder why?...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to the agreements, a law should be passed about the amnesty. This virtually hasn't be done.
> 
> Predicting your question 'why?'. Because as Ukraine insists, the Minsk agreements should be realizing in complex, not from one clause to another. As I wrote that the pullback can't be an isolated action, similarly the amnesty can't be the same.
> 
> I repeat it once more, there are no any 'states' DNR or LNR. The are 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts' and there are people who live there. Also, there are terrorist organizations DNR and LNR who established pseudo-state branches of authority there and operate military units.
Click to expand...

Wow I learned something.
I thought the forum was for zero college old white fart trumpanzees who just spewed knees news??


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> What can I explain to the likes as you are? I have already told you whom Ukraine considers terrorists. Do you have a reading comprehension issue?


Try to explain not to me but to the people of Donbass why Ukraine needs 3+ million people from Donbass (whom official Kiev  considers "terrorists") back to the country and what her officials will do with them afterwards. I'm afraid they already know the answer.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Zelensky don't want 10 years to pull the troops back. He is disappointed by the pace and wants to speed up the process.
> 
> The Minsk agreements are a two way road. And it is silly to demand from Ukraine something not offering something back. But you even hadn't bothered to read them until a couple of days ago. What can be discussed with you about this matter? Your ignorance?


Zelensky is disappointed with 10 years but demands 10 years and at the same he demands "full implementation of Minsk Agreements" from the other side. 10 years is NOT a "full implementation" from HIS side, do you at least understand that?

Who told you I had not read Minsk Agreements? It's you and your double standard official Kiev who seem to be confused with them. For more than 4 years now.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> What can I explain to the likes as you are? I have already told you whom Ukraine considers terrorists. Do you have a reading comprehension issue?
> 
> 
> 
> Try to explain not to me but to the people of Donbass why Ukraine needs 3+ million people from Donbass (whom official Kiev  considers "terrorists") back to the country and what her officials will do with them afterwards. I'm afraid they already know the answer.
Click to expand...

If official Kiev considers the common people terrorists, then why does he allow them to pass into the government held areas through official chekpoints? Why he allows them to register in administrative centers to get pensions, documents and so on? 

Why has the official Kiev (Kiev, not your fake republics) rebuilt a bridge through the Severskiy Donec to enable 'terrorists' to cross the fronlite easily and safely?


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zelensky don't want 10 years to pull the troops back. He is disappointed by the pace and wants to speed up the process.
> 
> The Minsk agreements are a two way road. And it is silly to demand from Ukraine something not offering something back. But you even hadn't bothered to read them until a couple of days ago. What can be discussed with you about this matter? Your ignorance?
> 
> 
> 
> Zelensky is disappointed with 10 years but demands 10 years and at the same he demands "full implementation of Minsk Agreements" from the other side. 10 years is NOT a "full implementation" from HIS side, do you at least understand that?
> 
> Who told you I had not read Minsk Agreements? It's you and your double standard official Kiev who seem to be confused with them. For more than 4 years now.
Click to expand...

The full pullback can take 1 or 5 or 10 or 20 or whatever it takes years, because it will be carried out on pair with political settlement of the conflict. 

Full implementation of the Minsk agreements is recognizing the fact that 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts' are an integral part of Ukraine.

That is alpha and omega. The other issues such as time frame of the pullback, Debaltsevo, and so on are derived from this.


----------



## Bleipriester

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zelensky don't want 10 years to pull the troops back. He is disappointed by the pace and wants to speed up the process.
> 
> The Minsk agreements are a two way road. And it is silly to demand from Ukraine something not offering something back. But you even hadn't bothered to read them until a couple of days ago. What can be discussed with you about this matter? Your ignorance?
> 
> 
> 
> Zelensky is disappointed with 10 years but demands 10 years and at the same he demands "full implementation of Minsk Agreements" from the other side. 10 years is NOT a "full implementation" from HIS side, do you at least understand that?
> 
> Who told you I had not read Minsk Agreements? It's you and your double standard official Kiev who seem to be confused with them. For more than 4 years now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The full pullback can take 1 or 5 or 10 or 20 or whatever it takes years, because it will be carried out on pair with political settlement of the conflict.
> 
> Full implementation of the Minsk agreements is recognizing the fact that 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts' are an integral part of Ukraine.
> 
> That is alpha and omega. The other issues such as time frame of the pullback, Debaltsevo, and so on are derived from this.
Click to expand...

It will be a shithole for decades due to the nazi putsch that you applaud.
You are far away from Ukraine and fling brown shit at the country.


----------



## ESay

Bleipriester said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zelensky don't want 10 years to pull the troops back. He is disappointed by the pace and wants to speed up the process.
> 
> The Minsk agreements are a two way road. And it is silly to demand from Ukraine something not offering something back. But you even hadn't bothered to read them until a couple of days ago. What can be discussed with you about this matter? Your ignorance?
> 
> 
> 
> Zelensky is disappointed with 10 years but demands 10 years and at the same he demands "full implementation of Minsk Agreements" from the other side. 10 years is NOT a "full implementation" from HIS side, do you at least understand that?
> 
> Who told you I had not read Minsk Agreements? It's you and your double standard official Kiev who seem to be confused with them. For more than 4 years now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The full pullback can take 1 or 5 or 10 or 20 or whatever it takes years, because it will be carried out on pair with political settlement of the conflict.
> 
> Full implementation of the Minsk agreements is recognizing the fact that 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts' are an integral part of Ukraine.
> 
> That is alpha and omega. The other issues such as time frame of the pullback, Debaltsevo, and so on are derived from this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It will be a shithole for decades due to the nazi putsch that you applaud.
> You are far away from Ukraine and fling brown shit at the country.
Click to expand...

I don't know what you mean that I am far away from Ukraine, but I am certainly far closer to her than you are.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> If official Kiev considers the common people terrorists, then why does he allow them to pass into the government held areas through official chekpoints? Why he allows them to register in administrative centers to get pensions, documents and so on?
> 
> Why has the official Kiev (Kiev, not your fake republics) rebuilt a bridge through the Severskiy Donec to enable 'terrorists' to cross the fronlite easily and safely?


Why, why, why…..

And the question remains: if official Kiev loves Donbass so much *why does it keeps calling them “terrorist organization”? *It’s not gonna male Donbass rush back to Ukraine.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> The full pullback can take 1 or 5 or 10 or 20 or whatever it takes years, because it will be carried out on pair with political settlement of the conflict.
> 
> Full implementation of the Minsk agreements is recognizing the fact that 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts' are an integral part of Ukraine.
> 
> That is alpha and omega. The other issues such as time frame of the pullback, Debaltsevo, and so on are derived from this.


Alpha and Omega is the road map I posted in my post #228  and which official Kiev keeps whining about (4  items from 11 have been written *only  for Ukraine to fulfill*, not for Donbass) . The only item Ukraine seems to be ready to fulfill is exchanging of hostages. And even with this item Medvedchuk (pro-Russian opposition to official Kiev) has done a lot more than official Kiev.

Instead of being happy Zelensky is mad at Medvedchuk for exchanging the hostages:


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> It will be a shithole for decades due to the nazi putsch that you applaud.
> You are far away from Ukraine and fling brown shit at the country.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what you mean that I am far away from Ukraine, but I am certainly far closer to her than you are.
Click to expand...

Just because Poland is "far closer" to Ukraine than Germany (where Bleipriester lives)?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ukraine has a Nazi problem. Yes, anyone paying attention knows this. A few countries in Europe also have a Nazi problem. But, unlike Ukraine, they are not fighting a war on their own soil. So the Nazis in those countries are masturbating in the public square, instead of forming militias to fight.


----------



## Alexander84

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Ukraine has a Nazi problem. Yes, anyone paying attention knows this.


But the current President of Ukraine is a half-Jew (he has a Jewish mother).

Four richest persons in Ukraine are not Ukrainians - one Tatar and three Jews.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Alexander84 said:


> But the current President of Ukraine is a half-Jew (he has a Jewish mother).


So what?  Do you have a point to make?


----------



## Stratford57

Alexander84 said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine has a Nazi problem. Yes, anyone paying attention knows this.
> 
> 
> 
> But the current President of Ukraine is a half-Jew (he has a Jewish mother).
> 
> Four richest persons in Ukraine are not Ukrainians - one Tatar and three Jews.
Click to expand...

The previous president Poroshenko was half-a-Jew. The current one seems to be a pure Jew. Moreover, all top candidates for president of Ukraine this year  were Jews as well.

Isn't it funny that post coup Ukraine has been run by Jews (with a Jew Soros patronizing)?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Stratford57 said:


> Isn't it funny that post coup Ukraine has been run by Jews


Funny, how?  Don't be shy. Let the crazy out.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> If official Kiev considers the common people terrorists, then why does he allow them to pass into the government held areas through official chekpoints? Why he allows them to register in administrative centers to get pensions, documents and so on?
> 
> Why has the official Kiev (Kiev, not your fake republics) rebuilt a bridge through the Severskiy Donec to enable 'terrorists' to cross the fronlite easily and safely?
> 
> 
> 
> Why, why, why…..
> 
> And the question remains: if official Kiev loves Donbass so much *why does it keeps calling them “terrorist organization”? *It’s not gonna male Donbass rush back to Ukraine.
Click to expand...

Yes, why, why, why... And your propaganda doesn't give you an answer.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> The full pullback can take 1 or 5 or 10 or 20 or whatever it takes years, because it will be carried out on pair with political settlement of the conflict.
> 
> Full implementation of the Minsk agreements is recognizing the fact that 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts' are an integral part of Ukraine.
> 
> That is alpha and omega. The other issues such as time frame of the pullback, Debaltsevo, and so on are derived from this.
> 
> 
> 
> Alpha and Omega is the road map I posted in my post #228  and which official Kiev keeps whining about (4  items from 11 have been written *only  for Ukraine to fulfill*, not for Donbass) . The only item Ukraine seems to be ready to fulfill is exchanging of hostages. And even with this item Medvedchuk (pro-Russian opposition to official Kiev) has done a lot more than official Kiev.
> 
> Instead of being happy Zelensky is mad at Medvedchuk for exchanging the hostages:
Click to expand...

Maybe in your parallel world.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> It will be a shithole for decades due to the nazi putsch that you applaud.
> You are far away from Ukraine and fling brown shit at the country.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what you mean that I am far away from Ukraine, but I am certainly far closer to her than you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just because Poland is "far closer" to Ukraine than Germany (where Bleipriester lives)?
Click to expand...

Poland?? What do I have to do with Poland?


----------



## Bleipriester

ESay said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zelensky don't want 10 years to pull the troops back. He is disappointed by the pace and wants to speed up the process.
> 
> The Minsk agreements are a two way road. And it is silly to demand from Ukraine something not offering something back. But you even hadn't bothered to read them until a couple of days ago. What can be discussed with you about this matter? Your ignorance?
> 
> 
> 
> Zelensky is disappointed with 10 years but demands 10 years and at the same he demands "full implementation of Minsk Agreements" from the other side. 10 years is NOT a "full implementation" from HIS side, do you at least understand that?
> 
> Who told you I had not read Minsk Agreements? It's you and your double standard official Kiev who seem to be confused with them. For more than 4 years now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The full pullback can take 1 or 5 or 10 or 20 or whatever it takes years, because it will be carried out on pair with political settlement of the conflict.
> 
> Full implementation of the Minsk agreements is recognizing the fact that 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts' are an integral part of Ukraine.
> 
> That is alpha and omega. The other issues such as time frame of the pullback, Debaltsevo, and so on are derived from this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It will be a shithole for decades due to the nazi putsch that you applaud.
> You are far away from Ukraine and fling brown shit at the country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know what you mean that I am far away from Ukraine, but I am certainly far closer to her than you are.
Click to expand...

No, you are in America, far away.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> If official Kiev considers the common people terrorists, then why does he allow them to pass into the government held areas through official chekpoints? Why he allows them to register in administrative centers to get pensions, documents and so on?
> 
> Why has the official Kiev (Kiev, not your fake republics) rebuilt a bridge through the Severskiy Donec to enable 'terrorists' to cross the fronlite easily and safely?
> 
> 
> 
> Why, why, why…..
> 
> And the question remains: if official Kiev loves Donbass so much *why does it keeps calling them “terrorist organization”? *It’s not gonna male Donbass rush back to Ukraine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, why, why, why... And your propaganda doesn't give you an answer.
Click to expand...

Now it's my propaganda. Whatever works when you can't answer *why does official Kiev keeps calling Donbass “terrorist organization”? *BTW, it's a fact, it's what official Kiev openly says, nothing to do with my propaganda. They have to be responsible for their own words, not Putin, don't you think?


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> The full pullback can take 1 or 5 or 10 or 20 or whatever it takes years, because it will be carried out on pair with political settlement of the conflict.
> 
> Full implementation of the Minsk agreements is recognizing the fact that 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts' are an integral part of Ukraine.
> 
> That is alpha and omega. The other issues such as time frame of the pullback, Debaltsevo, and so on are derived from this.
> 
> 
> 
> Alpha and Omega is the road map I posted in my post #228  and which official Kiev keeps whining about (4  items from 11 have been written *only  for Ukraine to fulfill*, not for Donbass) . The only item Ukraine seems to be ready to fulfill is exchanging of hostages. And even with this item Medvedchuk (pro-Russian opposition to official Kiev) has done a lot more than official Kiev.
> 
> Instead of being happy Zelensky is mad at Medvedchuk for exchanging the hostages:
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe in your parallel world.
Click to expand...

I presented nothing but facts. Sorry, your parallel world doesn't go well with them.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Stratford57 said:


> why does official Kiev keeps calling Donbass “terrorist organization”?


They don't. What is this nonsense? Donbass is a geographical region.


----------



## Stratford57

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> why does official Kiev keeps calling Donbass “terrorist organization”?
> 
> 
> 
> They don't. What is this nonsense? Donbass is a geographical region.
Click to expand...

They do. Everything is possible in "independent and democratic" post-coup Ukraine.


Topic: “Recognition of DNR and LNR as terrorist organizations”

LNR = Luhgansk People's Republic, DNR = Donetsk People's Republic and together they are half of geographical region of Donbass.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> If official Kiev considers the common people terrorists, then why does he allow them to pass into the government held areas through official chekpoints? Why he allows them to register in administrative centers to get pensions, documents and so on?
> 
> Why has the official Kiev (Kiev, not your fake republics) rebuilt a bridge through the Severskiy Donec to enable 'terrorists' to cross the fronlite easily and safely?
> 
> 
> 
> Why, why, why…..
> 
> And the question remains: if official Kiev loves Donbass so much *why does it keeps calling them “terrorist organization”? *It’s not gonna male Donbass rush back to Ukraine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, why, why, why... And your propaganda doesn't give you an answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now it's my propaganda. Whatever works when you can't answer *why does official Kiev keeps calling Donbass “terrorist organization”? *BTW, it's a fact, it's what official Kiev openly says, nothing to do with my propaganda. They have to be responsible for their own words, not Putin, don't you think?
Click to expand...

I think that you are a boring troll. When will you answer to my questions in the post 262?


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> I think that you are a boring troll. When will you answer to my questions in the post 262?


Well, I replied with #266, and still didn't get any explanation from you. I doubt you even know it yourself.

Nevertheless, Happy New Year.


"The DAY will come", a great song by Ukrainian kobzar Vasily Zhdankin, killed in a strange accident in Ternopol in September.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think that you are a boring troll. When will you answer to my questions in the post 262?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I replied with #266, and still didn't get any explanation from you. I doubt you even know it yourself.
> 
> Nevertheless, Happy New Year.
> 
> 
> "The DAY will come", a great song by Ukrainian kobzar Vasily Zhdankin, killed in a strange accident in Ternopol in September.
Click to expand...

You replied? Did you? Honey, find somebody else to play a fool with. Maybe this manner of conversation is acceptable in your circle of friends, but I can't abide it. 

Happy New Year.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think that you are a boring troll. When will you answer to my questions in the post 262?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I replied with #266, and still didn't get any explanation from you. I doubt you even know it yourself.
> 
> Nevertheless, Happy New Year.
> 
> 
> "The DAY will come", a great song by Ukrainian kobzar Vasily Zhdankin, killed in a strange accident in Ternopol in September.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You replied? Did you? Honey, find somebody else to play a fool with. Maybe this manner of conversation is acceptable in your circle of friends, but I can't abide it.
> 
> Happy New Year.
Click to expand...

I started talking about official Kiev calling DNR and LNR "terrorist organizations" in my post #228. Also I asked you to explain _to ignorant me_ WHY so? So far you keep spinning and avoiding the direct answer and on the top of everything _blaming me for that_. That's just ridiculous. Just like Democrats "impeached" Trump for Biden's crimes.

The reason I asked you was because YOU supported and keep supporting the unconstitutional coup in our country and that ugly Deep State project of "democratic and independent Ukraine". I instead have been participating in all possible peaceful protesting marches for several months even after new Ukrainian rulers threw our people in prisons and burnt  peaceful protectors alive in Odessa .

And I still DO NOT understand :
*why official Kiev calls DNR and LNR "terrorist organizations"*

If you can explain please explain if not just say so and we both will stop wasting our time on stupid arguments. But don't give me any more "bridges" and crap, if you would.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think that you are a boring troll. When will you answer to my questions in the post 262?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I replied with #266, and still didn't get any explanation from you. I doubt you even know it yourself.
> 
> Nevertheless, Happy New Year.
> 
> 
> "The DAY will come", a great song by Ukrainian kobzar Vasily Zhdankin, killed in a strange accident in Ternopol in September.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You replied? Did you? Honey, find somebody else to play a fool with. Maybe this manner of conversation is acceptable in your circle of friends, but I can't abide it.
> 
> Happy New Year.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I started talking about official Kiev calling DNR and LNR "terrorist organizations" in my post #228. Also I asked you to explain _to ignorant me_ WHY so? So far you keep spinning and avoiding the direct answer and on the top of everything _blaming me for that_. That's just ridiculous. Just like Democrats "impeached" Trump for Biden's crimes.
> 
> The reason I asked you was because YOU supported and keep supporting the unconstitutional coup in our country and that ugly Deep State project of "democratic and independent Ukraine". I instead have been participating in all possible peaceful protesting marches for several months even after new Ukrainian rulers threw our people in prisons and burnt  peaceful protectors alive in Odessa .
> 
> And I still DO NOT understand :
> *why official Kiev calls DNR and LNR "terrorist organizations"*
> 
> If you can explain please explain if not just say so and we both will stop wasting our time on stupid arguments. But don't give me any more "bridges" and crap, if you would.
Click to expand...


First of all, I want to underline that 'bridges and crap' I mentioned to disovaw your claims that Ukraine considers all people in Donbas as terrorists. An utterly false claim, I want to admit. 

Why he calls them so? How should official authorities call an armed group of people who kill their servicemen, seize military hardware, blow up bridges (again bridges, yes) and so on? 

It is the same why for example IRA and ETA are considered terrorist organizations in their home countries. 

How can I explain it more?


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> First of all, I want to underline that 'bridges and crap' I mentioned to disovaw your claims that Ukraine considers all people in Donbas as terrorists. An utterly false claim, I want to admit.



*It’s not me*, it’s official Kiev who calls DNR and Lnr and over 3 million people there “terrorist organizations’, don’t spin again.



ESay said:


> Why he calls them so? How should official authorities call an armed group of people who kill their servicemen, seize military hardware, blow up bridges (again bridges, yes) and so on?


Aren’t Ukrainians doing at least the same (I would say a lot worse) to Donbass? And I’ve never heard any DNR/LNR officially calling Ukraine a terrorist organization, even though  Ukrainian rulers since the coup seem to fit that definition. And it was NOT Donbass who came to Kiev and attacked it, it was official Kiev who sent its troops, tanks and even planes to tear Donbass down for voting for their own independence from Ukraine.

Video of 6 women torn apart after Ukrainian planes bombed Luhgansk.

And you are talking about some bridges.



ESay said:


> It is the same why for example IRA and ETA are considered terrorist organizations in their home countries.



DNR and LNR are half of Donbass and they form a geographical area with 3+ million people living there including millions of civilians. That is who Ukrainians  call a “terrorist organization”, the whole geographic area. And you seem to find it normal, right?


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, I want to underline that 'bridges and crap' I mentioned to disovaw your claims that Ukraine considers all people in Donbas as terrorists. An utterly false claim, I want to admit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *It’s not me*, it’s official Kiev who calls DNR and Lnr and over 3 million people there “terrorist organizations’, don’t spin again.
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why he calls them so? How should official authorities call an armed group of people who kill their servicemen, seize military hardware, blow up bridges (again bridges, yes) and so on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Aren’t Ukrainians doing at least the same (I would say a lot worse) to Donbass? And I’ve never heard any DNR/LNR officially calling Ukraine a terrorist organization, even though  Ukrainian rulers since the coup seem to fit that definition. And it was NOT Donbass who came to Kiev and attacked it, it was official Kiev who sent its troops, tanks and even planes to tear Donbass down for voting for their own independence from Ukraine.
> 
> Video of 6 women torn apart after Ukrainian planes bombed Luhgansk.
> 
> And you are talking about some bridges.
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is the same why for example IRA and ETA are considered terrorist organizations in their home countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> DNR and LNR are half of Donbass and they form a geographical area with 3+ million people living there including millions of civilians. That is who Ukrainians  call a “terrorist organization”, the whole geographic area. And you seem to find it normal, right?
Click to expand...


Ukrainian officials restore the territorial integrity of the state. Blame your hero Putin who gave the weapons to the rebels and provoked the answer from Kiev. 

The common people aren't considered as terrorists you dishonest troll. I already gave you an answer about that.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Ukrainian officials restore the territorial integrity of the state. Blame your hero Putin who gave the weapons to the rebels and provoked the answer from Kiev.
> 
> The common people aren't considered as terrorists you dishonest troll. I already gave you an answer about that.


You have been lecturing me on several pages telling me how “disrespectful” it was not to answering your questions. I thought you would demonstrate me a perfect example of a proper behavior and answer _all my questions_. But no, you came up with blaming Putin instead. In your previous post you blamed me because Ukrainian officials had been calling DNR, LNR “terrorist organizations”. I would NEVER call DNR and LNR "terrorist organizations", I'd rather call official Kiev and their overseas bosses a terrorist organization.

*This absurd of blaming the other side for your own faults and crimes has been a new trend in a failed state of post coup Ukraine *(which has also officially become the poorest country in Europe). Ukrainian officials are to cowardly to take responsibility for destroying the country from within.

BTW, during _bad_ Yanukovich times Ukrainian economy, salaries, retirement payments were on the rise. After the coup those above are on huge fall and the prices, the utilities, mortality rate, crimes, Nazis marches and many other “pleasant” things are on the rise. Only zombies can’t see that.

BTW, Happy Nazi Bandera’s day, dear Esay. Did you enjoy Nazis’ torchlight march in Kiev today? Is it Putin’s fault too?






2016:
*Is Ukraine becoming a failed state?*
https://www.quora.com/Is-Ukraine-becoming-a-failed-state

2018:
IMF ranks Ukraine as Europe's poorest country

CEPS EU: Almost three years after the Euromaidan revolution, *Ukraine’s leadership has fallen woefully short in delivering on its promises to fight against corruption within the judiciary*, clean up political party financing and decentralise government functions. The customs service has yet to be reformed, property rights are far from being ensured and state-owned enterprises have not been privatised. Major reforms aimed at combating corruption have consistently been resisted, delayed, manipulated or appear on paper only. The country’s elite must produce more tangible results in order to earn the trust of the citizens and ease the growing fatigue among Ukraine’s international partners.
https://www.ceps.eu/publications/ukraine’s-unimplemented-anti-corruption-reform

^All Putin's fault, ha?


----------



## Stratford57

Human Rights Watch about Ukraine (2018 report):

“For the last year, Kyiv has been treating its human rights obligation as though they were optional,” said Tanya Cooper, Ukraine researcher at Human Rights Watch. “*The authorities are carrying out some deeply undemocratic practices and proposing new laws that that undermine Ukrainians’ fundamental freedoms.”*

In recent months, Ukraine’s government took several steps to restrict freedom of expression, media freedom, and freedom of association,

The leadership of the State Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) denied its *responsibility for secret detention and enforced disappearances*, despite numerous, well-documented allegations by former detainees. The military prosecutor’s investigation into these practices yielded no meaningful results.

*Justice for crimes committed during the 2014 Maidan protests, which led to the ouster of the Ukrainian government, and for mass disturbances in Odesa remained elusive. *Four years after Maidan, authorities appear unwilling to pursue meaningful prosecutions of those responsible for more than 100 deaths and numerous other crimes.

Ukraine: Failing Its Human Rights Commitments

Must be all Putin's fault.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian officials restore the territorial integrity of the state. Blame your hero Putin who gave the weapons to the rebels and provoked the answer from Kiev.
> 
> The common people aren't considered as terrorists you dishonest troll. I already gave you an answer about that.
> 
> 
> 
> You have been lecturing me on several pages telling me how “disrespectful” it was not to answering your questions. I thought you would demonstrate me a perfect example of a proper behavior and answer _all my questions_. But no, you came up with blaming Putin instead. In your previous post you blamed me because Ukrainian officials had been calling DNR, LNR “terrorist organizations”. I would NEVER call DNR and LNR "terrorist organizations", I'd rather call official Kiev and their overseas bosses a terrorist organization.
> 
> *This absurd of blaming the other side for your own faults and crimes has been a new trend in a failed state of post coup Ukraine *(which has also officially become the poorest country in Europe). Ukrainian officials are to cowardly to take responsibility for destroying the country from within.
> 
> BTW, during _bad_ Yanukovich times Ukrainian economy, salaries, retirement payments were on the rise. After the coup those above are on huge fall and the prices, the utilities, mortality rate, crimes, Nazis marches and many other “pleasant” things are on the rise. Only zombies can’t see that.
> 
> BTW, Happy Nazi Bandera’s day, dear Esay. Did you enjoy Nazis’ torchlight march in Kiev today? Is it Putin’s fault too?
> 
> View attachment 297830
> 
> 2016:
> *Is Ukraine becoming a failed state?*
> https://www.quora.com/Is-Ukraine-becoming-a-failed-state
> 
> 2018:
> IMF ranks Ukraine as Europe's poorest country
> 
> CEPS EU: Almost three years after the Euromaidan revolution, *Ukraine’s leadership has fallen woefully short in delivering on its promises to fight against corruption within the judiciary*, clean up political party financing and decentralise government functions. The customs service has yet to be reformed, property rights are far from being ensured and state-owned enterprises have not been privatised. Major reforms aimed at combating corruption have consistently been resisted, delayed, manipulated or appear on paper only. The country’s elite must produce more tangible results in order to earn the trust of the citizens and ease the growing fatigue among Ukraine’s international partners.
> https://www.ceps.eu/publications/ukraine’s-unimplemented-anti-corruption-reform
> 
> ^All Putin's fault, ha?
Click to expand...

What question haven't I answered? Specify. If my answer doesn't please you, it doesn't mean that I didn't give an answer, btw. 

I blamed you because of your stupid and false claim that Ukraine considers all inhabitants of Donbass as terrorists. 

A huge decline in the economy happened in 2014-15. Since then the economy has been rising. Though it hasn't reached a level of 2013 yet. As a whole, the standard of living in Ukraine is disgrace for the country. But it has been so virtually all years since declaring independence. 

Btw, if your Yanukovich was so great economist, then why did he need an urgent loan from Russia even without a war inside the country, losing territories and shutting down the Russian market? 

I don't celebrate this day. So, there wasn't a need.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian officials restore the territorial integrity of the state. Blame your hero Putin who gave the weapons to the rebels and provoked the answer from Kiev.
> 
> The common people aren't considered as terrorists you dishonest troll. I already gave you an answer about that.
> 
> 
> 
> You have been lecturing me on several pages telling me how “disrespectful” it was not to answering your questions. I thought you would demonstrate me a perfect example of a proper behavior and answer _all my questions_. But no, you came up with blaming Putin instead. In your previous post you blamed me because Ukrainian officials had been calling DNR, LNR “terrorist organizations”. I would NEVER call DNR and LNR "terrorist organizations", I'd rather call official Kiev and their overseas bosses a terrorist organization.
> 
> *This absurd of blaming the other side for your own faults and crimes has been a new trend in a failed state of post coup Ukraine *(which has also officially become the poorest country in Europe). Ukrainian officials are to cowardly to take responsibility for destroying the country from within.
> 
> BTW, during _bad_ Yanukovich times Ukrainian economy, salaries, retirement payments were on the rise. After the coup those above are on huge fall and the prices, the utilities, mortality rate, crimes, Nazis marches and many other “pleasant” things are on the rise. Only zombies can’t see that.
> 
> BTW, Happy Nazi Bandera’s day, dear Esay. Did you enjoy Nazis’ torchlight march in Kiev today? Is it Putin’s fault too?
> 
> View attachment 297830
> 
> 2016: post coup
> *Is Ukraine becoming a failed state?*
> https://www.quora.com/Is-Ukraine-becoming-a-failed-state
> 
> 2018:
> IMF ranks Ukraine as Europe's poorest country
> 
> CEPS EU: Almost three years after the Euromaidan revolution, *Ukraine’s leadership has fallen woefully short in delivering on its promises to fight against corruption within the judiciary*, clean up political party financing and decentralise government functions. The customs service has yet to be reformed, property rights are far from being ensured and state-owned enterprises have not been privatised. Major reforms aimed at combating corruption have consistently been resisted, delayed, manipulated or appear on paper only. The country’s elite must produce more tangible results in order to earn the trust of the citizens and ease the growing fatigue among Ukraine’s international partners.
> https://www.ceps.eu/publications/ukraine’s-unimplemented-anti-corruption-reform
> 
> ^All Putin's fault, ha?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What question haven't I answered? Specify. If my answer doesn't please you, it doesn't mean that I didn't give an answer,
> 
> 
> I blamed you because of your stupid and false claim that Ukraine considers all inhabitants of Donbass as terrorists.
> 
> A huge decline in the economy happened in 2014-15. Since then the economy has been rising. Though it hasn't reached a level of 2013 yet. As a whole, the standard of living in Ukraine is disgrace for the country. But it has been so virtually all years since declaring independence.
> 
> Btw, if your Yanukovich was so great economist, then why did he need an urgent loan from Russia even without a war inside the country, losing territories and shutting down the Russian market?
> 
> I don't celebrate this day. So, there wasn't a need.
Click to expand...

1. If you don't know what's going on in Ukraine it's neither my nor Putin's fault.
Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk asked Ukraine's justice ministry, prosecutor general's office and security service Wednesday to take measures to ensure that the *DNR and LNR are recognized internationally as terrorist organizations.
*
 Ukraine's parliament passed a resolution calling on the European Union, the United States, Canada, Japan and Australia to put the two separatist entities on their lists of terrorist groups.
Ukraine FM: Peace Talks May Come in 'Next Few Days'

2. I'm not sure what Yanukovich needed 3 billion for but post coup Ukrainian officials borrowed from IMF a lot more and that doesn't seem to bother you. However yourself, your children and grandchildren (if they exist) will keep paying percentage of this debt for the rest of their lives especially with your "rising economy", ha-ha.
UAWire - Ukraine owes the IMF more than 12 billion dollars

3. Could you please go ahead and see which question of mine you did not answer by yourself, without a help of a "Russian troll"?


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian officials restore the territorial integrity of the state. Blame your hero Putin who gave the weapons to the rebels and provoked the answer from Kiev.
> 
> The common people aren't considered as terrorists you dishonest troll. I already gave you an answer about that.
> 
> 
> 
> You have been lecturing me on several pages telling me how “disrespectful” it was not to answering your questions. I thought you would demonstrate me a perfect example of a proper behavior and answer _all my questions_. But no, you came up with blaming Putin instead. In your previous post you blamed me because Ukrainian officials had been calling DNR, LNR “terrorist organizations”. I would NEVER call DNR and LNR "terrorist organizations", I'd rather call official Kiev and their overseas bosses a terrorist organization.
> 
> *This absurd of blaming the other side for your own faults and crimes has been a new trend in a failed state of post coup Ukraine *(which has also officially become the poorest country in Europe). Ukrainian officials are to cowardly to take responsibility for destroying the country from within.
> 
> BTW, during _bad_ Yanukovich times Ukrainian economy, salaries, retirement payments were on the rise. After the coup those above are on huge fall and the prices, the utilities, mortality rate, crimes, Nazis marches and many other “pleasant” things are on the rise. Only zombies can’t see that.
> 
> BTW, Happy Nazi Bandera’s day, dear Esay. Did you enjoy Nazis’ torchlight march in Kiev today? Is it Putin’s fault too?
> 
> View attachment 297830
> 
> 2016: post coup
> *Is Ukraine becoming a failed state?*
> https://www.quora.com/Is-Ukraine-becoming-a-failed-state
> 
> 2018:
> IMF ranks Ukraine as Europe's poorest country
> 
> CEPS EU: Almost three years after the Euromaidan revolution, *Ukraine’s leadership has fallen woefully short in delivering on its promises to fight against corruption within the judiciary*, clean up political party financing and decentralise government functions. The customs service has yet to be reformed, property rights are far from being ensured and state-owned enterprises have not been privatised. Major reforms aimed at combating corruption have consistently been resisted, delayed, manipulated or appear on paper only. The country’s elite must produce more tangible results in order to earn the trust of the citizens and ease the growing fatigue among Ukraine’s international partners.
> https://www.ceps.eu/publications/ukraine’s-unimplemented-anti-corruption-reform
> 
> ^All Putin's fault, ha?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What question haven't I answered? Specify. If my answer doesn't please you, it doesn't mean that I didn't give an answer,
> 
> 
> I blamed you because of your stupid and false claim that Ukraine considers all inhabitants of Donbass as terrorists.
> 
> A huge decline in the economy happened in 2014-15. Since then the economy has been rising. Though it hasn't reached a level of 2013 yet. As a whole, the standard of living in Ukraine is disgrace for the country. But it has been so virtually all years since declaring independence.
> 
> Btw, if your Yanukovich was so great economist, then why did he need an urgent loan from Russia even without a war inside the country, losing territories and shutting down the Russian market?
> 
> I don't celebrate this day. So, there wasn't a need.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1. If you don't know what's going on in Ukraine it's neither my nor Putin's fault.
> Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk asked Ukraine's justice ministry, prosecutor general's office and security service Wednesday to take measures to ensure that the *DNR and LNR are recognized internationally as terrorist organizations.
> *
> Ukraine's parliament passed a resolution calling on the European Union, the United States, Canada, Japan and Australia to put the two separatist entities on their lists of terrorist groups.
> Ukraine FM: Peace Talks May Come in 'Next Few Days'
> 
> 2. I'm not sure what Yanukovich needed 3 billion for but post coup Ukrainian officials borrowed from IMF a lot more and that doesn't seem to bother you. However yourself, your children and grandchildren (if they exist) will keep paying percentage of this debt for the rest of their lives especially with your "rising economy", ha-ha.
> UAWire - Ukraine owes the IMF more than 12 billion dollars
> 
> 3. Could you please go ahead and see which question of mine you did not answer by yourself, without a help of a "Russian troll"?
Click to expand...

Well, I repeat it once more what I wrote above. Maybe you are a little bit slow. 

Ukraine considers DLNR as terrorist organizations. In Ukraine's view the terrorist organizations DNR and LNR dont comprise of all people of Donbass or territories. The terrorist organizations comprise only of those who serve in the rebels' militant groups. Those ones who work in pseudo-state entities the rebels organized may be considered as collaborators. 

The territories on which these terrorist groups act are called 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts'. 

The common people who live on these territories are the citizens of Ukraine as anyone else who lives on various parts of the country. Various politicians say this, btw, including Zelensky. 

----------

A great economist Yanukovich also sought a cooperation with IMF, btw. 

Yeas, the amount of dept in comparison to GDP rose more than two- fold in the past several years. But it never reached more than 85% of GDP. And maybe you know that 2019 and 2020 are the years of the biggest payments. The biggest debt to GDP ratio was in 2016 IIRC (more than 80%). It is estimated that this year it will drop to the ratio of 65% or so. 

------

No, thanks. Repeat the question if you will. I don't have much desire to scroll back through all our fruitful conversation.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian officials restore the territorial integrity of the state. Blame your hero Putin who gave the weapons to the rebels and provoked the answer from Kiev.
> 
> The common people aren't considered as terrorists you dishonest troll. I already gave you an answer about that.
> 
> 
> 
> You have been lecturing me on several pages telling me how “disrespectful” it was not to answering your questions. I thought you would demonstrate me a perfect example of a proper behavior and answer _all my questions_. But no, you came up with blaming Putin instead. In your previous post you blamed me because Ukrainian officials had been calling DNR, LNR “terrorist organizations”. I would NEVER call DNR and LNR "terrorist organizations", I'd rather call official Kiev and their overseas bosses a terrorist organization.
> 
> *This absurd of blaming the other side for your own faults and crimes has been a new trend in a failed state of post coup Ukraine *(which has also officially become the poorest country in Europe). Ukrainian officials are to cowardly to take responsibility for destroying the country from within.
> 
> BTW, during _bad_ Yanukovich times Ukrainian economy, salaries, retirement payments were on the rise. After the coup those above are on huge fall and the prices, the utilities, mortality rate, crimes, Nazis marches and many other “pleasant” things are on the rise. Only zombies can’t see that.
> 
> BTW, Happy Nazi Bandera’s day, dear Esay. Did you enjoy Nazis’ torchlight march in Kiev today? Is it Putin’s fault too?
> 
> View attachment 297830
> 
> 2016: post coup
> *Is Ukraine becoming a failed state?*
> https://www.quora.com/Is-Ukraine-becoming-a-failed-state
> 
> 2018:
> IMF ranks Ukraine as Europe's poorest country
> 
> CEPS EU: Almost three years after the Euromaidan revolution, *Ukraine’s leadership has fallen woefully short in delivering on its promises to fight against corruption within the judiciary*, clean up political party financing and decentralise government functions. The customs service has yet to be reformed, property rights are far from being ensured and state-owned enterprises have not been privatised. Major reforms aimed at combating corruption have consistently been resisted, delayed, manipulated or appear on paper only. The country’s elite must produce more tangible results in order to earn the trust of the citizens and ease the growing fatigue among Ukraine’s international partners.
> https://www.ceps.eu/publications/ukraine’s-unimplemented-anti-corruption-reform
> 
> ^All Putin's fault, ha?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What question haven't I answered? Specify. If my answer doesn't please you, it doesn't mean that I didn't give an answer,
> 
> 
> I blamed you because of your stupid and false claim that Ukraine considers all inhabitants of Donbass as terrorists.
> 
> A huge decline in the economy happened in 2014-15. Since then the economy has been rising. Though it hasn't reached a level of 2013 yet. As a whole, the standard of living in Ukraine is disgrace for the country. But it has been so virtually all years since declaring independence.
> 
> Btw, if your Yanukovich was so great economist, then why did he need an urgent loan from Russia even without a war inside the country, losing territories and shutting down the Russian market?
> 
> I don't celebrate this day. So, there wasn't a need.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1. If you don't know what's going on in Ukraine it's neither my nor Putin's fault.
> Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk asked Ukraine's justice ministry, prosecutor general's office and security service Wednesday to take measures to ensure that the *DNR and LNR are recognized internationally as terrorist organizations.
> *
> Ukraine's parliament passed a resolution calling on the European Union, the United States, Canada, Japan and Australia to put the two separatist entities on their lists of terrorist groups.
> Ukraine FM: Peace Talks May Come in 'Next Few Days'
> 
> 2. I'm not sure what Yanukovich needed 3 billion for but post coup Ukrainian officials borrowed from IMF a lot more and that doesn't seem to bother you. However yourself, your children and grandchildren (if they exist) will keep paying percentage of this debt for the rest of their lives especially with your "rising economy", ha-ha.
> UAWire - Ukraine owes the IMF more than 12 billion dollars
> 
> 3. Could you please go ahead and see which question of mine you did not answer by yourself, without a help of a "Russian troll"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, I repeat it once more what I wrote above. Maybe you are a little bit slow.
> 
> Ukraine considers DLNR as terrorist organizations. In Ukraine's view the terrorist organizations DNR and LNR dont comprise of all people of Donbass or territories. The terrorist organizations comprise only of those who serve in the rebels' militant groups. Those ones who work in pseudo-state entities the rebels organized may be considered as collaborators.
> 
> The territories on which these terrorist groups act are called 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts'.
> 
> The common people who live on these territories are the citizens of Ukraine as anyone else who lives on various parts of the country. Various politicians say this, btw, including Zelensky.
> 
> ----------
> 
> A great economist Yanukovich also sought a cooperation with IMF, btw.
> 
> Yeas, the amount of dept in comparison to GDP rose more than two- fold in the past several years. But it never reached more than 85% of GDP. And maybe you know that 2019 and 2020 are the years of the biggest payments. The biggest debt to GDP ratio was in 2016 IIRC (more than 80%). It is estimated that this year it will drop to the ratio of 65% or so.
> 
> ------
> 
> No, thanks. Repeat the question if you will. I don't have much desire to scroll back through all our fruitful conversation.
Click to expand...


The conversation has been really "fruitful", I agree with that. On several pages you've been accusing me in calling LNR&DNR terrorist organizations and finally admitted that it was not me but official Ukraine who had invented that nonsense.

At least Russia, "the aggressor" (as you call her in Ukraine!) agreed to forgive Ukraine her debt (given to her during Yanukovich presidency which you were bitching about), good luck with the debt to IMF though.
Naftogaz Receives $2.9 Billion Payment From Gazprom With New Agreement

About the rest: learn how  help yourself.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian officials restore the territorial integrity of the state. Blame your hero Putin who gave the weapons to the rebels and provoked the answer from Kiev.
> 
> The common people aren't considered as terrorists you dishonest troll. I already gave you an answer about that.
> 
> 
> 
> You have been lecturing me on several pages telling me how “disrespectful” it was not to answering your questions. I thought you would demonstrate me a perfect example of a proper behavior and answer _all my questions_. But no, you came up with blaming Putin instead. In your previous post you blamed me because Ukrainian officials had been calling DNR, LNR “terrorist organizations”. I would NEVER call DNR and LNR "terrorist organizations", I'd rather call official Kiev and their overseas bosses a terrorist organization.
> 
> *This absurd of blaming the other side for your own faults and crimes has been a new trend in a failed state of post coup Ukraine *(which has also officially become the poorest country in Europe). Ukrainian officials are to cowardly to take responsibility for destroying the country from within.
> 
> BTW, during _bad_ Yanukovich times Ukrainian economy, salaries, retirement payments were on the rise. After the coup those above are on huge fall and the prices, the utilities, mortality rate, crimes, Nazis marches and many other “pleasant” things are on the rise. Only zombies can’t see that.
> 
> BTW, Happy Nazi Bandera’s day, dear Esay. Did you enjoy Nazis’ torchlight march in Kiev today? Is it Putin’s fault too?
> 
> View attachment 297830
> 
> 2016: post coup
> *Is Ukraine becoming a failed state?*
> https://www.quora.com/Is-Ukraine-becoming-a-failed-state
> 
> 2018:
> IMF ranks Ukraine as Europe's poorest country
> 
> CEPS EU: Almost three years after the Euromaidan revolution, *Ukraine’s leadership has fallen woefully short in delivering on its promises to fight against corruption within the judiciary*, clean up political party financing and decentralise government functions. The customs service has yet to be reformed, property rights are far from being ensured and state-owned enterprises have not been privatised. Major reforms aimed at combating corruption have consistently been resisted, delayed, manipulated or appear on paper only. The country’s elite must produce more tangible results in order to earn the trust of the citizens and ease the growing fatigue among Ukraine’s international partners.
> https://www.ceps.eu/publications/ukraine’s-unimplemented-anti-corruption-reform
> 
> ^All Putin's fault, ha?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What question haven't I answered? Specify. If my answer doesn't please you, it doesn't mean that I didn't give an answer,
> 
> 
> I blamed you because of your stupid and false claim that Ukraine considers all inhabitants of Donbass as terrorists.
> 
> A huge decline in the economy happened in 2014-15. Since then the economy has been rising. Though it hasn't reached a level of 2013 yet. As a whole, the standard of living in Ukraine is disgrace for the country. But it has been so virtually all years since declaring independence.
> 
> Btw, if your Yanukovich was so great economist, then why did he need an urgent loan from Russia even without a war inside the country, losing territories and shutting down the Russian market?
> 
> I don't celebrate this day. So, there wasn't a need.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1. If you don't know what's going on in Ukraine it's neither my nor Putin's fault.
> Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk asked Ukraine's justice ministry, prosecutor general's office and security service Wednesday to take measures to ensure that the *DNR and LNR are recognized internationally as terrorist organizations.
> *
> Ukraine's parliament passed a resolution calling on the European Union, the United States, Canada, Japan and Australia to put the two separatist entities on their lists of terrorist groups.
> Ukraine FM: Peace Talks May Come in 'Next Few Days'
> 
> 2. I'm not sure what Yanukovich needed 3 billion for but post coup Ukrainian officials borrowed from IMF a lot more and that doesn't seem to bother you. However yourself, your children and grandchildren (if they exist) will keep paying percentage of this debt for the rest of their lives especially with your "rising economy", ha-ha.
> UAWire - Ukraine owes the IMF more than 12 billion dollars
> 
> 3. Could you please go ahead and see which question of mine you did not answer by yourself, without a help of a "Russian troll"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, I repeat it once more what I wrote above. Maybe you are a little bit slow.
> 
> Ukraine considers DLNR as terrorist organizations. In Ukraine's view the terrorist organizations DNR and LNR dont comprise of all people of Donbass or territories. The terrorist organizations comprise only of those who serve in the rebels' militant groups. Those ones who work in pseudo-state entities the rebels organized may be considered as collaborators.
> 
> The territories on which these terrorist groups act are called 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts'.
> 
> The common people who live on these territories are the citizens of Ukraine as anyone else who lives on various parts of the country. Various politicians say this, btw, including Zelensky.
> 
> ----------
> 
> A great economist Yanukovich also sought a cooperation with IMF, btw.
> 
> Yeas, the amount of dept in comparison to GDP rose more than two- fold in the past several years. But it never reached more than 85% of GDP. And maybe you know that 2019 and 2020 are the years of the biggest payments. The biggest debt to GDP ratio was in 2016 IIRC (more than 80%). It is estimated that this year it will drop to the ratio of 65% or so.
> 
> ------
> 
> No, thanks. Repeat the question if you will. I don't have much desire to scroll back through all our fruitful conversation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The conversation has been really "fruitful", I agree with that. On several pages you've been accusing me in calling LNR&DNR terrorist organizations and finally admitted that it was not me but official Ukraine who had invented that nonsense.
> 
> At least Russia, "the aggressor" (as you call her in Ukraine!) agreed to forgive Ukraine her debt (given to her during Yanukovich presidency which you were bitching about), good luck with the debt to IMF though.
> Naftogaz Receives $2.9 Billion Payment From Gazprom With New Agreement
> 
> About the rest: learn how  help yourself.
Click to expand...

Oh, dear. 2.9 billion Naftogaz got from Gazprom have nothing to do whatsoever with so called debt of Yanukovich. 

The Gazprom's payment was according to the ruling of Stokholm arbitrage. And payment of this money was one of preconditions Ukraine put on the table before signing the transit contract. 

The case about the debt of Yanukovich has been considered in British courts. The final ruling is expected this year. 

It was weird to mix up these two separate cases, even for you.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have been lecturing me on several pages telling me how “disrespectful” it was not to answering your questions. I thought you would demonstrate me a perfect example of a proper behavior and answer _all my questions_. But no, you came up with blaming Putin instead. In your previous post you blamed me because Ukrainian officials had been calling DNR, LNR “terrorist organizations”. I would NEVER call DNR and LNR "terrorist organizations", I'd rather call official Kiev and their overseas bosses a terrorist organization.
> 
> *This absurd of blaming the other side for your own faults and crimes has been a new trend in a failed state of post coup Ukraine *(which has also officially become the poorest country in Europe). Ukrainian officials are to cowardly to take responsibility for destroying the country from within.
> 
> BTW, during _bad_ Yanukovich times Ukrainian economy, salaries, retirement payments were on the rise. After the coup those above are on huge fall and the prices, the utilities, mortality rate, crimes, Nazis marches and many other “pleasant” things are on the rise. Only zombies can’t see that.
> 
> BTW, Happy Nazi Bandera’s day, dear Esay. Did you enjoy Nazis’ torchlight march in Kiev today? Is it Putin’s fault too?
> 
> View attachment 297830
> 
> 2016: post coup
> *Is Ukraine becoming a failed state?*
> https://www.quora.com/Is-Ukraine-becoming-a-failed-state
> 
> 2018:
> IMF ranks Ukraine as Europe's poorest country
> 
> CEPS EU: Almost three years after the Euromaidan revolution, *Ukraine’s leadership has fallen woefully short in delivering on its promises to fight against corruption within the judiciary*, clean up political party financing and decentralise government functions. The customs service has yet to be reformed, property rights are far from being ensured and state-owned enterprises have not been privatised. Major reforms aimed at combating corruption have consistently been resisted, delayed, manipulated or appear on paper only. The country’s elite must produce more tangible results in order to earn the trust of the citizens and ease the growing fatigue among Ukraine’s international partners.
> https://www.ceps.eu/publications/ukraine’s-unimplemented-anti-corruption-reform
> 
> ^All Putin's fault, ha?
> 
> 
> 
> What question haven't I answered? Specify. If my answer doesn't please you, it doesn't mean that I didn't give an answer,
> 
> 
> I blamed you because of your stupid and false claim that Ukraine considers all inhabitants of Donbass as terrorists.
> 
> A huge decline in the economy happened in 2014-15. Since then the economy has been rising. Though it hasn't reached a level of 2013 yet. As a whole, the standard of living in Ukraine is disgrace for the country. But it has been so virtually all years since declaring independence.
> 
> Btw, if your Yanukovich was so great economist, then why did he need an urgent loan from Russia even without a war inside the country, losing territories and shutting down the Russian market?
> 
> I don't celebrate this day. So, there wasn't a need.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1. If you don't know what's going on in Ukraine it's neither my nor Putin's fault.
> Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk asked Ukraine's justice ministry, prosecutor general's office and security service Wednesday to take measures to ensure that the *DNR and LNR are recognized internationally as terrorist organizations.
> *
> Ukraine's parliament passed a resolution calling on the European Union, the United States, Canada, Japan and Australia to put the two separatist entities on their lists of terrorist groups.
> Ukraine FM: Peace Talks May Come in 'Next Few Days'
> 
> 2. I'm not sure what Yanukovich needed 3 billion for but post coup Ukrainian officials borrowed from IMF a lot more and that doesn't seem to bother you. However yourself, your children and grandchildren (if they exist) will keep paying percentage of this debt for the rest of their lives especially with your "rising economy", ha-ha.
> UAWire - Ukraine owes the IMF more than 12 billion dollars
> 
> 3. Could you please go ahead and see which question of mine you did not answer by yourself, without a help of a "Russian troll"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, I repeat it once more what I wrote above. Maybe you are a little bit slow.
> 
> Ukraine considers DLNR as terrorist organizations. In Ukraine's view the terrorist organizations DNR and LNR dont comprise of all people of Donbass or territories. The terrorist organizations comprise only of those who serve in the rebels' militant groups. Those ones who work in pseudo-state entities the rebels organized may be considered as collaborators.
> 
> The territories on which these terrorist groups act are called 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts'.
> 
> The common people who live on these territories are the citizens of Ukraine as anyone else who lives on various parts of the country. Various politicians say this, btw, including Zelensky.
> 
> ----------
> 
> A great economist Yanukovich also sought a cooperation with IMF, btw.
> 
> Yeas, the amount of dept in comparison to GDP rose more than two- fold in the past several years. But it never reached more than 85% of GDP. And maybe you know that 2019 and 2020 are the years of the biggest payments. The biggest debt to GDP ratio was in 2016 IIRC (more than 80%). It is estimated that this year it will drop to the ratio of 65% or so.
> 
> ------
> 
> No, thanks. Repeat the question if you will. I don't have much desire to scroll back through all our fruitful conversation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The conversation has been really "fruitful", I agree with that. On several pages you've been accusing me in calling LNR&DNR terrorist organizations and finally admitted that it was not me but official Ukraine who had invented that nonsense.
> 
> At least Russia, "the aggressor" (as you call her in Ukraine!) agreed to forgive Ukraine her debt (given to her during Yanukovich presidency which you were bitching about), good luck with the debt to IMF though.
> Naftogaz Receives $2.9 Billion Payment From Gazprom With New Agreement
> 
> About the rest: learn how  help yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, dear. 2.9 billion Naftogaz got from Gazprom have nothing to do whatsoever with so called debt of Yanukovich.
> 
> The Gazprom's payment was according to the ruling of Stokholm arbitrage. And payment of this money was one of preconditions Ukraine put on the table before signing the transit contract.
> 
> The case about the debt of Yanukovich has been considered in British courts. The final ruling is expected this year.
> 
> It was weird to mix up these two separate cases, even for you.
Click to expand...

Ok, seems like I misunderstood something, what a big deal. Thank you  for explaining it to me so kindly.

As far a I know Ukraine isn’t going to pay those 3 billion to Russia anyway.

But Ukraine still owes a lot more to IMF and so far is able to pay percentage while the debt keeps growing same way as the pockets of Ukrainian oligarchs.

 Over $12 billion disappears from Ukraine’s budget every year, and global graft watchdog Transparency International ranks the country as Europe’s most corrupt.
Why Ukraine Must Outsource Its Fight Against Corruption

Also new Ukrainian rulers are going to sell Ukrainian great farmers lands to foreigners cheap, that  was probably one of the main goals of arranging the coup (I doubt  bad Yanukovich would  allow it).* And what were they promising to you encouraging you to help them to remove a dully elected president: European future, no oligarchs, no corruption and so on and on.* Which promises have been fulfilled, may be you know? Only no visa for trips to Europe which the vast majority can't afford anyway.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> What question haven't I answered? Specify. If my answer doesn't please you, it doesn't mean that I didn't give an answer,
> 
> 
> I blamed you because of your stupid and false claim that Ukraine considers all inhabitants of Donbass as terrorists.
> 
> A huge decline in the economy happened in 2014-15. Since then the economy has been rising. Though it hasn't reached a level of 2013 yet. As a whole, the standard of living in Ukraine is disgrace for the country. But it has been so virtually all years since declaring independence.
> 
> Btw, if your Yanukovich was so great economist, then why did he need an urgent loan from Russia even without a war inside the country, losing territories and shutting down the Russian market?
> 
> I don't celebrate this day. So, there wasn't a need.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. If you don't know what's going on in Ukraine it's neither my nor Putin's fault.
> Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk asked Ukraine's justice ministry, prosecutor general's office and security service Wednesday to take measures to ensure that the *DNR and LNR are recognized internationally as terrorist organizations.
> *
> Ukraine's parliament passed a resolution calling on the European Union, the United States, Canada, Japan and Australia to put the two separatist entities on their lists of terrorist groups.
> Ukraine FM: Peace Talks May Come in 'Next Few Days'
> 
> 2. I'm not sure what Yanukovich needed 3 billion for but post coup Ukrainian officials borrowed from IMF a lot more and that doesn't seem to bother you. However yourself, your children and grandchildren (if they exist) will keep paying percentage of this debt for the rest of their lives especially with your "rising economy", ha-ha.
> UAWire - Ukraine owes the IMF more than 12 billion dollars
> 
> 3. Could you please go ahead and see which question of mine you did not answer by yourself, without a help of a "Russian troll"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, I repeat it once more what I wrote above. Maybe you are a little bit slow.
> 
> Ukraine considers DLNR as terrorist organizations. In Ukraine's view the terrorist organizations DNR and LNR dont comprise of all people of Donbass or territories. The terrorist organizations comprise only of those who serve in the rebels' militant groups. Those ones who work in pseudo-state entities the rebels organized may be considered as collaborators.
> 
> The territories on which these terrorist groups act are called 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts'.
> 
> The common people who live on these territories are the citizens of Ukraine as anyone else who lives on various parts of the country. Various politicians say this, btw, including Zelensky.
> 
> ----------
> 
> A great economist Yanukovich also sought a cooperation with IMF, btw.
> 
> Yeas, the amount of dept in comparison to GDP rose more than two- fold in the past several years. But it never reached more than 85% of GDP. And maybe you know that 2019 and 2020 are the years of the biggest payments. The biggest debt to GDP ratio was in 2016 IIRC (more than 80%). It is estimated that this year it will drop to the ratio of 65% or so.
> 
> ------
> 
> No, thanks. Repeat the question if you will. I don't have much desire to scroll back through all our fruitful conversation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The conversation has been really "fruitful", I agree with that. On several pages you've been accusing me in calling LNR&DNR terrorist organizations and finally admitted that it was not me but official Ukraine who had invented that nonsense.
> 
> At least Russia, "the aggressor" (as you call her in Ukraine!) agreed to forgive Ukraine her debt (given to her during Yanukovich presidency which you were bitching about), good luck with the debt to IMF though.
> Naftogaz Receives $2.9 Billion Payment From Gazprom With New Agreement
> 
> About the rest: learn how  help yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, dear. 2.9 billion Naftogaz got from Gazprom have nothing to do whatsoever with so called debt of Yanukovich.
> 
> The Gazprom's payment was according to the ruling of Stokholm arbitrage. And payment of this money was one of preconditions Ukraine put on the table before signing the transit contract.
> 
> The case about the debt of Yanukovich has been considered in British courts. The final ruling is expected this year.
> 
> It was weird to mix up these two separate cases, even for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, seems like I misunderstood something, what a big deal. Thank you  for explaining it to me so kindly.
> 
> As far a I know Ukraine isn’t going to pay those 3 billion to Russia anyway.
> 
> But Ukraine still owes a lot more to IMF and so far is able to pay percentage while the debt keeps growing same way as the pockets of Ukrainian oligarchs.
> 
> Over $12 billion disappears from Ukraine’s budget every year, and global graft watchdog Transparency International ranks the country as Europe’s most corrupt.
> Why Ukraine Must Outsource Its Fight Against Corruption
> 
> Also new Ukrainian rulers are going to sell Ukrainian great farmers lands to foreigners cheap, that  was probably one of the main goals of arranging the coup (I doubt  bad Yanukovich would  allow it).* And what were they promising to you encouraging you to help them to remove a dully elected president: European future, no oligarchs, no corruption and so on and on.* Which promises have been fulfilled, may be you know? Only no visa for trips to Europe which the vast majority can't afford anyway.
Click to expand...

I don't know about paying the debt. The odds are that Ukraine will lose the case against Russia. But at the same time, Ukraine has filled various lawsuits against Russia about state properties lost in Crimea. There is a possibility that this debt will be nullified as a form of compensation. 

Actually, in 2014 Ukraine proposed Russia to prolong and repay this debt at the terms proposed to private investors. But Moscow refused. 

As I wrote above, the debt-to-GDP ratio should drop to 65%. 

-----------
Yes, corruption is the foremost problem in Ukraine. Your articles are from 2015-16 years, but much of them is true today too, unfortunately. 

I fully support so called outsourcing of corruption fighting. And this possibility was seriously discussed a couple of years ago. But there are groups of people with big money who do everything to thwart that. 

--------

Actually, it is not the current rulers who want to do that. Formally, the law which allows to sell agricultural lands was passed in 2002. But this law established a five-year moratorium as a temporal measure. On the practice, the moratorium has been extended for almost 20 years. 

The law which will cancel this moratorium and establish land market will allow only Ukrainian citizens and companies to buy the land. The permission for foreigners to do that must be approved on a referendum. It is according to the government project.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. If you don't know what's going on in Ukraine it's neither my nor Putin's fault.
> Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk asked Ukraine's justice ministry, prosecutor general's office and security service Wednesday to take measures to ensure that the *DNR and LNR are recognized internationally as terrorist organizations.
> *
> Ukraine's parliament passed a resolution calling on the European Union, the United States, Canada, Japan and Australia to put the two separatist entities on their lists of terrorist groups.
> Ukraine FM: Peace Talks May Come in 'Next Few Days'
> 
> 2. I'm not sure what Yanukovich needed 3 billion for but post coup Ukrainian officials borrowed from IMF a lot more and that doesn't seem to bother you. However yourself, your children and grandchildren (if they exist) will keep paying percentage of this debt for the rest of their lives especially with your "rising economy", ha-ha.
> UAWire - Ukraine owes the IMF more than 12 billion dollars
> 
> 3. Could you please go ahead and see which question of mine you did not answer by yourself, without a help of a "Russian troll"?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I repeat it once more what I wrote above. Maybe you are a little bit slow.
> 
> Ukraine considers DLNR as terrorist organizations. In Ukraine's view the terrorist organizations DNR and LNR dont comprise of all people of Donbass or territories. The terrorist organizations comprise only of those who serve in the rebels' militant groups. Those ones who work in pseudo-state entities the rebels organized may be considered as collaborators.
> 
> The territories on which these terrorist groups act are called 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts'.
> 
> The common people who live on these territories are the citizens of Ukraine as anyone else who lives on various parts of the country. Various politicians say this, btw, including Zelensky.
> 
> ----------
> 
> A great economist Yanukovich also sought a cooperation with IMF, btw.
> 
> Yeas, the amount of dept in comparison to GDP rose more than two- fold in the past several years. But it never reached more than 85% of GDP. And maybe you know that 2019 and 2020 are the years of the biggest payments. The biggest debt to GDP ratio was in 2016 IIRC (more than 80%). It is estimated that this year it will drop to the ratio of 65% or so.
> 
> ------
> 
> No, thanks. Repeat the question if you will. I don't have much desire to scroll back through all our fruitful conversation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The conversation has been really "fruitful", I agree with that. On several pages you've been accusing me in calling LNR&DNR terrorist organizations and finally admitted that it was not me but official Ukraine who had invented that nonsense.
> 
> At least Russia, "the aggressor" (as you call her in Ukraine!) agreed to forgive Ukraine her debt (given to her during Yanukovich presidency which you were bitching about), good luck with the debt to IMF though.
> Naftogaz Receives $2.9 Billion Payment From Gazprom With New Agreement
> 
> About the rest: learn how  help yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, dear. 2.9 billion Naftogaz got from Gazprom have nothing to do whatsoever with so called debt of Yanukovich.
> 
> The Gazprom's payment was according to the ruling of Stokholm arbitrage. And payment of this money was one of preconditions Ukraine put on the table before signing the transit contract.
> 
> The case about the debt of Yanukovich has been considered in British courts. The final ruling is expected this year.
> 
> It was weird to mix up these two separate cases, even for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, seems like I misunderstood something, what a big deal. Thank you  for explaining it to me so kindly.
> 
> As far a I know Ukraine isn’t going to pay those 3 billion to Russia anyway.
> 
> But Ukraine still owes a lot more to IMF and so far is able to pay percentage while the debt keeps growing same way as the pockets of Ukrainian oligarchs.
> 
> Over $12 billion disappears from Ukraine’s budget every year, and global graft watchdog Transparency International ranks the country as Europe’s most corrupt.
> Why Ukraine Must Outsource Its Fight Against Corruption
> 
> Also new Ukrainian rulers are going to sell Ukrainian great farmers lands to foreigners cheap, that  was probably one of the main goals of arranging the coup (I doubt  bad Yanukovich would  allow it).* And what were they promising to you encouraging you to help them to remove a dully elected president: European future, no oligarchs, no corruption and so on and on.* Which promises have been fulfilled, may be you know? Only no visa for trips to Europe which the vast majority can't afford anyway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know about paying the debt. The odds are that Ukraine will lose the case against Russia. But at the same time, Ukraine has filled various lawsuits against Russia about state properties lost in Crimea. There is a possibility that this debt will be nullified as a form of compensation.
> 
> Actually, in 2014 Ukraine proposed Russia to prolong and repay this debt at the terms proposed to private investors. But Moscow refused.
> 
> As I wrote above, the debt-to-GDP ratio should drop to 65%.
> 
> -----------
> Yes, corruption is the foremost problem in Ukraine. Your articles are from 2015-16 years, but much of them is true today too, unfortunately.
> 
> I fully support so called outsourcing of corruption fighting. And this possibility was seriously discussed a couple of years ago. But there are groups of people with big money who do everything to thwart that.
> 
> --------
> 
> Actually, it is not the current rulers who want to do that. Formally, the law which allows to sell agricultural lands was passed in 2002. But this law established a five-year moratorium as a temporal measure. On the practice, the moratorium has been extended for almost 20 years.
> 
> The law which will cancel this moratorium and establish land market will allow only Ukrainian citizens and companies to buy the land. The permission for foreigners to do that must be approved on a referendum. It is according to the government project.
Click to expand...

And foreigners will easily buy our farm lands through some Ukrainian shell companies very cheap. In such a corrupt Ukrainian swamp that won't be a problem. And I bet there will be something like a _referendum_ among Ukrainian rulers, oligarchs and Soros about selling our lands. It seems to be a done deal, Soros paid for the coup, he wants his money back and Ukrainian lands will be a sweet piece for his old teeth.

We (who have been protesting against the coup) knew for sure: Americans had come to our country not to give us dolce vita (as they promised) but for their own profit (as always). I was coming to the marches with the protest signs (made by myself) like "Where comes America comes the war" written in 2 languages and it was in March and April, before Kiev brought its troops, tanks and planes to Donbass. 

 Those who needed your approval and help to overthrow _bad_ but dully elected Yanuckovich promised you a lot of good things which never came true. The situation in Ukraine with _bad _Yanukovich was incomparably  better than now and it will only get worse and worse regardless what they will tell you about "economy growth". So far living standards in Ukraine have been going down.

Was that coup worth all that (and many other unpleasant things) after all?


----------



## MaryL

The main stream media informs us about gay penguins. Not so much about esoteric facts. Ukraine  has lesser merit than gay penguins.  But we can trust the MSM to tell us about things that matter. They are good about being factual, objective and over all. unbiased.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I repeat it once more what I wrote above. Maybe you are a little bit slow.
> 
> Ukraine considers DLNR as terrorist organizations. In Ukraine's view the terrorist organizations DNR and LNR dont comprise of all people of Donbass or territories. The terrorist organizations comprise only of those who serve in the rebels' militant groups. Those ones who work in pseudo-state entities the rebels organized may be considered as collaborators.
> 
> The territories on which these terrorist groups act are called 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts'.
> 
> The common people who live on these territories are the citizens of Ukraine as anyone else who lives on various parts of the country. Various politicians say this, btw, including Zelensky.
> 
> ----------
> 
> A great economist Yanukovich also sought a cooperation with IMF, btw.
> 
> Yeas, the amount of dept in comparison to GDP rose more than two- fold in the past several years. But it never reached more than 85% of GDP. And maybe you know that 2019 and 2020 are the years of the biggest payments. The biggest debt to GDP ratio was in 2016 IIRC (more than 80%). It is estimated that this year it will drop to the ratio of 65% or so.
> 
> ------
> 
> No, thanks. Repeat the question if you will. I don't have much desire to scroll back through all our fruitful conversation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The conversation has been really "fruitful", I agree with that. On several pages you've been accusing me in calling LNR&DNR terrorist organizations and finally admitted that it was not me but official Ukraine who had invented that nonsense.
> 
> At least Russia, "the aggressor" (as you call her in Ukraine!) agreed to forgive Ukraine her debt (given to her during Yanukovich presidency which you were bitching about), good luck with the debt to IMF though.
> Naftogaz Receives $2.9 Billion Payment From Gazprom With New Agreement
> 
> About the rest: learn how  help yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, dear. 2.9 billion Naftogaz got from Gazprom have nothing to do whatsoever with so called debt of Yanukovich.
> 
> The Gazprom's payment was according to the ruling of Stokholm arbitrage. And payment of this money was one of preconditions Ukraine put on the table before signing the transit contract.
> 
> The case about the debt of Yanukovich has been considered in British courts. The final ruling is expected this year.
> 
> It was weird to mix up these two separate cases, even for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, seems like I misunderstood something, what a big deal. Thank you  for explaining it to me so kindly.
> 
> As far a I know Ukraine isn’t going to pay those 3 billion to Russia anyway.
> 
> But Ukraine still owes a lot more to IMF and so far is able to pay percentage while the debt keeps growing same way as the pockets of Ukrainian oligarchs.
> 
> Over $12 billion disappears from Ukraine’s budget every year, and global graft watchdog Transparency International ranks the country as Europe’s most corrupt.
> Why Ukraine Must Outsource Its Fight Against Corruption
> 
> Also new Ukrainian rulers are going to sell Ukrainian great farmers lands to foreigners cheap, that  was probably one of the main goals of arranging the coup (I doubt  bad Yanukovich would  allow it).* And what were they promising to you encouraging you to help them to remove a dully elected president: European future, no oligarchs, no corruption and so on and on.* Which promises have been fulfilled, may be you know? Only no visa for trips to Europe which the vast majority can't afford anyway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know about paying the debt. The odds are that Ukraine will lose the case against Russia. But at the same time, Ukraine has filled various lawsuits against Russia about state properties lost in Crimea. There is a possibility that this debt will be nullified as a form of compensation.
> 
> Actually, in 2014 Ukraine proposed Russia to prolong and repay this debt at the terms proposed to private investors. But Moscow refused.
> 
> As I wrote above, the debt-to-GDP ratio should drop to 65%.
> 
> -----------
> Yes, corruption is the foremost problem in Ukraine. Your articles are from 2015-16 years, but much of them is true today too, unfortunately.
> 
> I fully support so called outsourcing of corruption fighting. And this possibility was seriously discussed a couple of years ago. But there are groups of people with big money who do everything to thwart that.
> 
> --------
> 
> Actually, it is not the current rulers who want to do that. Formally, the law which allows to sell agricultural lands was passed in 2002. But this law established a five-year moratorium as a temporal measure. On the practice, the moratorium has been extended for almost 20 years.
> 
> The law which will cancel this moratorium and establish land market will allow only Ukrainian citizens and companies to buy the land. The permission for foreigners to do that must be approved on a referendum. It is according to the government project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And foreigners will easily buy our farm lands through some Ukrainian shell companies very cheap. In such a corrupt Ukrainian swamp that won't be a problem. And I bet there will be something like a _referendum_ among Ukrainian rulers, oligarchs and Soros about selling our lands. It seems to be a done deal, Soros paid for the coup, he wants his money back and Ukrainian lands will be a sweet piece for his old teeth.
> 
> We (who have been protesting against the coup) knew for sure: Americans had come to our country not to give us dolce vita (as they promised) but for their own profit (as always). I was coming to the marches with the protest signs (made by myself) like "Where comes America comes the war" written in 2 languages and it was in March and April, before Kiev brought its troops, tanks and planes to Donbass.
> 
> Those who needed your approval and help to overthrow _bad_ but dully elected Yanuckovich promised you a lot of good things which never came true. The situation in Ukraine with _bad _Yanukovich was incomparably  better than now and it will only get worse and worse regardless what they will tell you about "economy growth". So far living standards in Ukraine have been going down.
> 
> Was that coup worth all that (and many other unpleasant things) after all?
Click to expand...

I won't comment on the stuff about Soros. In a nutshell - I think you over-estimate his influence on global affair.

You use such strange rhetoric... Bad Yanukovich, promises from someone, someone should give you something. Are you a child?

No one owes you nothing in this world. You should trust only your close relatives and very close friends. No one is going to 'give' you anything.

You and I have absolutely different mentality. 
What irritated me the most in Yanukovich was not his refusing to sign an agreement with the EU per se. It was just a final drop. What I despised in him was his desire to create in Ukraine a second Russia - with a single ruling party, pocket opposition, with the parliament and the courts to be virtually offshoots of the administration, with large and totally subjued bureacratic apparat and so on. And on the top of it should stand his clan of course.

This system of power was going to fall anyway. Except of that, the economic situation was not so cloudless as you want to imply. In the last two years of his rule there was stagnation in the econony, the central bank annualy sold some of its reserves to support the exchange rate of the currency. And that is just two things which i remembered the first. 

For me the question 'was the coup worth it' sounds ridiculous. Because as I said above his system of power was going to fall anyway.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Bad Yanukovich, promises from someone, someone should give you something. Are you a child?
> 
> No one owes you nothing in this world. You should trust only your close relatives and very close friends. No one is going to 'give' you anything.
> 
> .


I didn't trust those who promised you "European future", no corruption and no oligarchs. You seemed to. So,  what are you preaching me about?



ESay said:


> What irritated me the most in Yanukovich was not his refusing to sign an agreement with the EU per se. It was just a final drop.
> 
> .


2014:
*As we **pointed out recently**, even the poll commissioned by the U.S. State Department found that only 37 percent of Ukrainians favored joining the EU. *

Why then, should Americans take direction from George Soros, Barack Obama, John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, the _New York Times_, _Washington Pos_t, CNN, John McCain *and other internationalist voices who insist it is Ukraine that must “choose” … but the only choice considered acceptable and legitimate to the globalist choir is for Ukraine to join the EU?*  Soros and his huge stable of “public intellectuals” at Project Syndicate have been flooding the global media with propaganda to that purpose.
George Soros’ Giant Globalist Footprint in Ukraine’s Turmoil

Stephen Cohen: _Why did the European Union tell the democratically elected president of such a profoundly divided country, two Ukraines, in November, that *he must decide either/or, you’re either with Europe, or you’re with Russia? That’s a provocation*, and that’s where this began. And here’s what’s not reported._
The Real Reason the US Media Hates Vladimir Putin - Daily Reckoning

There should have been a referendum to choose whom to be with: Russia or EU and Yanukovich wanted  only to prolong Ukraine's neutral status and to make a decision later. The coup was  anti-constitutional but _as long as it was not pro-Western president overthrown you were ok with that_. BTW, Eastern Ukraine hated Yuschenko quite a bit too but we waited until his term was over and ELECTED somebody different




ESay said:


> This system of power was going to fall anyway. Except of that, the economic situation was not so cloudless as you want to imply. In the last two years of his rule there was stagnation in the econony, the central bank annualy sold some of its reserves to support the exchange rate of the currency. And that is just two things which i remembered the first.
> 
> .


Then right thing to do was to wait until the next elections (they were supposed to be held the next year!)



ESay said:


> For me the question 'was the coup worth it' sounds ridiculous. Because as I said above his system of power was going to fall anyway.



With _bad_ Yanuckovich and his stagnation almost everybody could afford to buy food, medicine, clothes, to pay utilities. There was industry in Ukraine and people had jobs and were actually paid (now people keep losing the jobs and  their bosses delay the salaries or even don't pay at all). Now mainly crooks and those who work for crooks  have jobs and are paid (with a rear exception.) Ukraine was promised to be "another Switzerland " or "another France" to encourage the people to vote for "independence" in 1991. Now Ukraine reminds another Somalia.

With _bad_ Yanuckovich there was no war, there were no attacks of the churches and seizing the churches,  there were no attacks on singers and actors (just because they were pro-Western or pro-Russian), the people could choose their first language for education, Nazis were not marching in our streets, the people were not burnt alive (like in Odessa) and so on and on,


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> I didn't trust those who promised you "European future", no corruption and no oligarchs. You seemed to. So, what are you preaching me about


'European future' won't be brought to you by someone, child. Every person is a master of their own future. You still don't get it? How old are you? 



Stratford57 said:


> 2014:
> *As we **pointed out recently**, even the poll commissioned by the U.S. State Department found that only 37 percent of Ukrainians favored joining the EU.*


Why didn't you mention the second part of the paragraph, troll?  It says that those who favored the Customs Union comprise 33%. The third part, I suppose, either refused to answer or didn't decide. 



Stratford57 said:


> There should have been a referendum to choose whom to be with: Russia or EU and Yanukovich wanted only to prolong Ukraine's neutral status and to make a decision later. The coup was anti-constitutional but _as long as it was not pro-Western president overthrown you were ok with that_. BTW, Eastern Ukraine hated Yuschenko quite a bit too but we waited until his term was over and ELECTED somebody different


I doubt that with Yanukovich at the helm there would be a fair elections. You seem not to write carefully what I wrote above. 



Stratford57 said:


> With _bad_ Yanuckovich and his stagnation almost everybody could afford to buy food, medicine, clothes, to pay utilities. There was industry in Ukraine and people had jobs and were actually paid (now people keep losing the jobs and their bosses delay the salaries or even don't pay at all). Now mainly crooks and those who work for crooks have jobs and are paid (with a rear exception.) Ukraine was promised to be "another Switzerland " or "another France" to encourage the people to vote for "independence" in 1991. Now Ukraine reminds another Somalia.
> 
> With _bad_ Yanuckovich there was no war, there were no attacks of the churches and seizing the churches, there were no attacks on singers and actors (just because they were pro-Western or pro-Russian), the people could choose their first language for education, Nazis were not marching in our streets, the people were not burnt alive (like in Odessa) and so on and on,


Again this crap about prices, economy, Nazis. You don't have money to buy food? Do you see Nazis marching in your town? 

The system of power under Yanukovich was going to fall anyway. And I already wrote why.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> 'European future' won't be brought to you by someone, child. Every person is a master of their own future. You still don't get it? How old are you?


Hey dude, do you understand English?
 We don't need you "European future" and neither I nor you will ever see it anyway. That was just a cheese in a mousetrap for those who betrayed their country and helped the foreigners with the coup.



ESay said:


> Why didn't you mention the second part of the paragraph, troll?  It says that those who favored the Customs Union comprise 33%. The third part, I suppose, either refused to answer or didn't decide.


Yanukovich was NOT pupping you into Custom Union, that's WHY i didn't mention it.



ESay said:


> I doubt that with Yanukovich at the helm there would be a fair elections. You seem not to write carefully what I wrote above.


Doubts are not a good reason for the coup. Yuschenko was a lot less trustful personage (and having  wife  who had been an American official on the top of everything) but we, the East, were not even thinking to overthrow his as* and waited for 5 long years for get rid of him with the respect to Ukrainian Constitution. Those who supported the coup did not have any respect  either to the constitution nor to the millions of their countrymen from the East. That what Ukrainians like yourself call "independence and democracy"?
And that was a signal for Crimea and Donbass to get out of such a "democratic and independent" Ukraine.



ESay said:


> Again this crap about prices, economy, Nazis. You don't have money to buy food? Do you see Nazis marching in your town?
> 
> The system of power under Yanukovich was going to fall anyway. And I already wrote why.


Yes, I saw Nazis walking in the streets of my town and even if I didn't yet it's now just a matter of time.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> Hey dude, do you understand English?
> We don't need you "European future" and neither I nor you will ever see it anyway. That was just a cheese in a mousetrap for those who betrayed their country and helped the foreigners with the coup.


First of all, it depends on what one considers 'European future' to be. 

Second, in any case I am sure that our views won't coincide. 

Third. Support a party (or parties) which will bring you some other future, 'Russian' for example. There is already one, at least. 



Stratford57 said:


> Yanukovich was NOT pupping you into Custom Union, that's WHY i didn't mention it.


No, that wasn't a reason. And we both know it. 

Regardless. Yanukovich wasn't? It wasn't a choice between two vectors? Oh, I forgot. You couldn't now. You just fell from the Moon then. 



Stratford57 said:


> Doubts are not a good reason for the coup. Yuschenko was a lot less trustful personage (and having wife who had been an American official on the top of everything) but we, the East, were not even thinking to overthrow his as* and waited for 5 long years for get rid of him with the respect to Ukrainian Constitution. Those who supported the coup did not have any respect either to the constitution nor to the millions of their countrymen from the East. That what Ukrainians like yourself call "independence and democracy"?
> And that was a signal for Crimea and Donbass to get out of such a "democratic and independent" Ukraine.


Respect to Constitution))). You just made my day. 

Honey, you can sell this crap to someone else, ok? If your Russian masters had organized similar events in the East then, you would have praised it from every corner. 



Stratford57 said:


> Yes, I saw Nazis walking in the streets of my town and even if I didn't yet it's now just a matter of time.


I see. And who they were - the members of Svoboda, or Right Sector, or Azov, or...  just Nazis?


----------



## Stratford57

Not too much from what you just said made sense except for observing Ukrainian constitution and respecting  the will of the millions from the East looked ridiculous to you. That was expected.

If you read the Bible, which has been the wisest book in the world for the last 2000 years, you would know that:

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Matthew 7:17–18 - Wikipedia

With such ugly, evil and bitter fruits which post coup Ukraine has been producing no sane person can call her "a good tree" except for those who treat Ukrainians as useful idiots while taking advantage of their country.

Sooner or later even you and the people like yourself will wake up.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> Not too much from what you just said made sense except for observing Ukrainian constitution and respecting  the will of the millions from the East looked ridiculous to you. That was expected.
> 
> If you read the Bible, which has been the wisest book in the world for the last 2000 years, you would know that:
> 
> A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
> Matthew 7:17–18 - Wikipedia
> 
> With such ugly, evil and bitter fruits which post coup Ukraine has been producing no sane person can call her "a good tree" except for those who treat Ukrainians as useful idiots while taking advantage of their country.
> 
> Sooner or later even you and the people like yourself will wake up.


I am always amused when people like you cite the Bible. Okay, I want to offer another citation to you. It is also Matthew, and also chapter 7, but some other verse. 

_3 “And why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank that is in your own eye? 4 Or how will you say to your brother, ‘Let me pull the speck out of your eye,’ when a log is in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite! First take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye."_


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not too much from what you just said made sense except for observing Ukrainian constitution and respecting  the will of the millions from the East looked ridiculous to you. That was expected.
> 
> If you read the Bible, which has been the wisest book in the world for the last 2000 years, you would know that:
> 
> A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
> Matthew 7:17–18 - Wikipedia
> 
> With such ugly, evil and bitter fruits which post coup Ukraine has been producing no sane person can call her "a good tree" except for those who treat Ukrainians as useful idiots while taking advantage of their country.
> 
> Sooner or later even you and the people like yourself will wake up.
> 
> 
> 
> I am always amused when people like you cite the Bible. Okay, I want to offer another citation to you. It is also Matthew, and also chapter 7, but some other verse.
> 
> _3 “And why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank that is in your own eye? 4 Or how will you say to your brother, ‘Let me pull the speck out of your eye,’ when a log is in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite! First take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye."_
Click to expand...

Good quote, thank you. And it's about all of us, including yourself, isn't it?

BTW, Ukraine is also my home county. So if she's ever able to pull all the specks out of her eyes and to kick out the overseas bosses all Ukrainian will only benefit.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not too much from what you just said made sense except for observing Ukrainian constitution and respecting  the will of the millions from the East looked ridiculous to you. That was expected.
> 
> If you read the Bible, which has been the wisest book in the world for the last 2000 years, you would know that:
> 
> A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
> Matthew 7:17–18 - Wikipedia
> 
> With such ugly, evil and bitter fruits which post coup Ukraine has been producing no sane person can call her "a good tree" except for those who treat Ukrainians as useful idiots while taking advantage of their country.
> 
> Sooner or later even you and the people like yourself will wake up.
> 
> 
> 
> I am always amused when people like you cite the Bible. Okay, I want to offer another citation to you. It is also Matthew, and also chapter 7, but some other verse.
> 
> _3 “And why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank that is in your own eye? 4 Or how will you say to your brother, ‘Let me pull the speck out of your eye,’ when a log is in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite! First take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye."_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good quote, thank you. And it's about all of us, including yourself, isn't it?
> 
> BTW, Ukraine is also my home county. So if she's ever able to pull all the specks out of her eyes and to kick out the overseas bosses all Ukrainian will only benefit.
Click to expand...

Only 'oversees' bosses? It will be good if 'over-porebryk' bosses also follow the suit.


----------



## Alexander84

I have just made a thread in "US Politics" - The US President’s accusations against the Ukrainian President remain unproved for 6 years

The thread is about US support of coup d’état in Ukraine in 2014 and the US President Obama's allegations that the then Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovitch was a corrupt ruler.


----------



## ESay

Alexander84 said:


> I have just made a thread in "US Politics" - The US President’s accusations against the Ukrainian President remain unproved for 6 years
> 
> The thread is about US support of coup d’état in Ukraine in 2014 and the US President Obama's allegations that the then Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovitch was a corrupt ruler.


Dude, you missed the time with this stuff about Yanukovich, the 'coup' and the like. It had been widely discussed in 2014-15 years. 

Now you should accept how the things are and leave Yanukovich in your Rostov. There won't be any return to those times.


----------



## LuckyDuck

Stratford57 said:


> Soros and Obama’s administration have also tuned Ukraine into a cozy place for breeding, training and recruiting of Neo-Nazis. FBI agents and several Congressmen have been trying to attract the people attention but...American  Media has been sooooo silent about that.
> 
> 1. Criminal Complaint of special FBI agent Scott Bierwirth
> https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...laint/0f1e76cdeef814133f24/optimized/full.pdf
> 
> Page 9:
> In August 2018 RAM members had a trip in Ukraine and met with Olena Semenyaka the leader of a political party in Ukraine which was found out of a military regiment  called Azov Battalion. *Azov Battalion is a paramilitary unit of Ukrainian National Guard which is known for its association with Neo-Nazi ideology and use of Nazi symbolism and which is believed to have participated in training and radicalizing United States-based white supremacy organizations.*
> 
> !!!! RAM is an extremist group headquartered in S. California.
> 
> Olena Semenyaka’s picture:
> View attachment 291322
> 
> 2. October 16, 2019 , *Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?*
> 
> “White supremacist violent extremism, one type of racially- and ethnically-motivated violent extremism, is one of the most potent forces driving domestic terrorism.” Rose’s letter names *Azov Battalion*, Nordic Resistance Movement, and National Action as three examples of foreign groups that have been *connected to recent terrorist attacks around the world as well as recruiting and influencing American citizens*.
> 
> The shooter in the Christchurch, New Zeeland, was also trained in Azov Battalion.
> Rose Leads Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?
> 
> 
> 3. KYIV, Ukraine—When Deputy Secretary of State George Kent spoke at the U.S. House of Representatives impeachment hearings this week, he painted a powerful picture of Ukrainian bravery in the face of Russian aggression.
> 
> But Kent most likely did not have in mind the most famous—and infamous—of those volunteer units, the Azov Battalion, which *40 members of Congress have asked the State Department to designate as a Foreign Terrorist Organization.* Some of its members are neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and avowed anti-Semites.
> Ukraine’s Anti-Russia Azov Battalion: ‘Minutemen’ or Neo-Nazi Terrorists?
> 
> 
> 4. Ex FBI agent Ali Soufan:
> 
> And what Syria did for jihadists, Ukraine is doing for white supremacists. “It’s had a galvanizing effect,” Blazakis said. “It’s given them, for lack of a better word, a playground in which there is turmoil and chaos, a kind of playground that doesn’t exist in a conventional sense in places like the United States.”
> 
> One of the most prominent destinations for these fighters is the *Azov Battalion, a pro-Ukrainian force that analysts say has embraced neo-Nazi views while targeting right-wing or white supremacist groups around the world for recruitment.*
> Ukraine's Civil War Is a 'Playground' for White Supremacists. What Could Go Wrong?
> 
> Pictures of Azov Battalion:
> 
> View attachment 291323
> 
> View attachment 291324
> 
> View attachment 291325
> 
> View attachment 291326
> 
> How come American journalists have not reported about such a Nazi nest in the middle of Europe? Russian journalists have been good about reporting this problem. All the facts above are from their Nov 22 news release:
> 
> www.1tv.ru/news/issue/2019-11-22/21:00#4


Neo-Nazi groups are not an extremely huge group in the world; more threatening are Islam and Marxism.


----------



## Pamela Helpert

I think they are kind of nationalistic, not Neo-NAzi.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not too much from what you just said made sense except for observing Ukrainian constitution and respecting  the will of the millions from the East looked ridiculous to you. That was expected.
> 
> If you read the Bible, which has been the wisest book in the world for the last 2000 years, you would know that:
> 
> A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
> Matthew 7:17–18 - Wikipedia
> 
> With such ugly, evil and bitter fruits which post coup Ukraine has been producing no sane person can call her "a good tree" except for those who treat Ukrainians as useful idiots while taking advantage of their country.
> 
> Sooner or later even you and the people like yourself will wake up.
> 
> 
> 
> I am always amused when people like you cite the Bible. Okay, I want to offer another citation to you. It is also Matthew, and also chapter 7, but some other verse.
> 
> _3 “And why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank that is in your own eye? 4 Or how will you say to your brother, ‘Let me pull the speck out of your eye,’ when a log is in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite! First take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye."_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good quote, thank you. And it's about all of us, including yourself, isn't it?
> 
> BTW, Ukraine is also my home county. So if she's ever able to pull all the specks out of her eyes and to kick out the overseas bosses all Ukrainian will only benefit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only 'oversees' bosses? It will be good if 'over-porebryk' bosses also follow the suit.
Click to expand...

Ukraine has some other bosses besides the overseas ones? Well, then you admit Ukraine is not independent.

I have never had that illusion and I'm sure Ukraine was dragged away from Russia by the people who wanted to make Ukraine really dependent. And obviously they have succeeded.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not too much from what you just said made sense except for observing Ukrainian constitution and respecting  the will of the millions from the East looked ridiculous to you. That was expected.
> 
> If you read the Bible, which has been the wisest book in the world for the last 2000 years, you would know that:
> 
> A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
> Matthew 7:17–18 - Wikipedia
> 
> With such ugly, evil and bitter fruits which post coup Ukraine has been producing no sane person can call her "a good tree" except for those who treat Ukrainians as useful idiots while taking advantage of their country.
> 
> Sooner or later even you and the people like yourself will wake up.
> 
> 
> 
> I am always amused when people like you cite the Bible. Okay, I want to offer another citation to you. It is also Matthew, and also chapter 7, but some other verse.
> 
> _3 “And why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank that is in your own eye? 4 Or how will you say to your brother, ‘Let me pull the speck out of your eye,’ when a log is in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite! First take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye."_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good quote, thank you. And it's about all of us, including yourself, isn't it?
> 
> BTW, Ukraine is also my home county. So if she's ever able to pull all the specks out of her eyes and to kick out the overseas bosses all Ukrainian will only benefit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only 'oversees' bosses? It will be good if 'over-porebryk' bosses also follow the suit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ukraine has some other bosses besides the overseas ones? Well, then you admit Ukraine is not independent.
> 
> I have never had that illusion and I'm sure Ukraine was dragged away from Russia by the people who wanted to make Ukraine really dependent. And obviously they have succeeded.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the real world, child. There are no really independent countries. Countries depend on each other in economic ties, military treaties, political unions and so on. 

Ukraine dragged from Russia? Ok, you can call it this way. It changes nothing. It is a natural historical process and you should accept it. 

I still wait an answer about Nazis in your town.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not too much from what you just said made sense except for observing Ukrainian constitution and respecting  the will of the millions from the East looked ridiculous to you. That was expected.
> 
> If you read the Bible, which has been the wisest book in the world for the last 2000 years, you would know that:
> 
> A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
> Matthew 7:17–18 - Wikipedia
> 
> With such ugly, evil and bitter fruits which post coup Ukraine has been producing no sane person can call her "a good tree" except for those who treat Ukrainians as useful idiots while taking advantage of their country.
> 
> Sooner or later even you and the people like yourself will wake up.
> 
> 
> 
> I am always amused when people like you cite the Bible. Okay, I want to offer another citation to you. It is also Matthew, and also chapter 7, but some other verse.
> 
> _3 “And why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank that is in your own eye? 4 Or how will you say to your brother, ‘Let me pull the speck out of your eye,’ when a log is in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite! First take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye."_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good quote, thank you. And it's about all of us, including yourself, isn't it?
> 
> BTW, Ukraine is also my home county. So if she's ever able to pull all the specks out of her eyes and to kick out the overseas bosses all Ukrainian will only benefit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only 'oversees' bosses? It will be good if 'over-porebryk' bosses also follow the suit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ukraine has some other bosses besides the overseas ones? Well, then you admit Ukraine is not independent.
> 
> I have never had that illusion and I'm sure Ukraine was dragged away from Russia by the people who wanted to make Ukraine really dependent. And obviously they have succeeded.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Welcome to the real world, child. There are no really independent countries. Countries depend on each other in economic ties, military treaties, political unions and so on.
> 
> Ukraine dragged from Russia? Ok, you can call it this way. It changes nothing. It is a natural historical process and you should accept it.
> 
> I still wait an answer about Nazis in your town.
Click to expand...

Thanks for a lesson, dear teacher  (who can't differ sh*t from Shinola himself).

So, what has Ukraine  been celebrating on August 24 since last century? A fake independence? I'll gladly agree with that.


----------



## Stratford57

Alexander84 said:


> I have just made a thread in "US Politics" - The US President’s accusations against the Ukrainian President remain unproved for 6 years
> 
> The thread is about US support of coup d’état in Ukraine in 2014 and the US President Obama's allegations that the then Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovitch was a corrupt ruler.


They couldn't even prove that that famous golden toilet which was all over the Internet in 2014 belonged to Yanukovich as they claimed:

The photo gold toilet has been around since at least 2012, and there’s no evidence that it belongs to Yanukovych or anyone else in Ukraine.

Yulia Tymoshenko: “Our homeland will from today on be able to see the sun and sky as a dictatorship has ended,” she said Saturday. “Each drop of blood was not spilled in vain,” she added, referring to the 77 protesters who were killed.
Golden Toilet Fake: Ukraine President Viktor Yanukovych Doesnt' Have Gold Toilet

Besides, if the “protestors” leaders showed their own residences I bet we’d see not only golden toilets in their bathrooms but whole bunch of other valuable things there as well.

And now, almost 6 years after the coup we still can’t see any sun and sky over corrupt and miserable Ukraine.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am always amused when people like you cite the Bible. Okay, I want to offer another citation to you. It is also Matthew, and also chapter 7, but some other verse.
> 
> _3 “And why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank that is in your own eye? 4 Or how will you say to your brother, ‘Let me pull the speck out of your eye,’ when a log is in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite! First take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye."_
> 
> 
> 
> Good quote, thank you. And it's about all of us, including yourself, isn't it?
> 
> BTW, Ukraine is also my home county. So if she's ever able to pull all the specks out of her eyes and to kick out the overseas bosses all Ukrainian will only benefit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only 'oversees' bosses? It will be good if 'over-porebryk' bosses also follow the suit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ukraine has some other bosses besides the overseas ones? Well, then you admit Ukraine is not independent.
> 
> I have never had that illusion and I'm sure Ukraine was dragged away from Russia by the people who wanted to make Ukraine really dependent. And obviously they have succeeded.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Welcome to the real world, child. There are no really independent countries. Countries depend on each other in economic ties, military treaties, political unions and so on.
> 
> Ukraine dragged from Russia? Ok, you can call it this way. It changes nothing. It is a natural historical process and you should accept it.
> 
> I still wait an answer about Nazis in your town.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for a lesson, dear teacher  (who can't differ sh*t from Shinola himself).
> 
> So, what has Ukraine  been celebrating on August 24 since last century? A fake independence? I'll gladly agree with that.
Click to expand...

Ukraine celebrates the end of a political union with Russia which had lasted inexucasable long. 

It seems that your answer about the Nazis will never show up, as well as haven't the Nazis in your town. 

Haven't you been told, child, that the lie is not a good thing?


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## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Ukraine celebrates the end of a political union with Russia which had lasted inexucasable long.


"The end of a political union with Russia" and  "independence" are two different conceptions, you are trying to spin again. So, my dear teacher, INDEPENDENCE from what? Here is a little suggestion for you: independence from all common sense. Even the people from Western Ukraine admit that. Independent Ukraine has been a joke. However you seem to like a special ostrich position in the sand with your butt up.



ESay said:


> It seems that your answer about the Nazis will never show up, as well as haven't the Nazis in your town.


I have already answered  in my post #303. 



ESay said:


> Haven't you been told, child, that the lie is not a good thing?


You need to share that wisdom with Ukrainian politicians and their overseas bosses. I'm afraid they don't care though.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> The end of a political union with Russia" and "independence" are two different conceptions, you are trying to spin again. So, my dear teacher, INDEPENDENCE from what? Here is a little suggestion for you: independence from all common sense. Even the people from Western Ukraine admit that. Independent Ukraine has been a joke. However you seem to like a special ostrich position in the sand with your butt up.


At the first turn, political independence from Russia. Is it simple enough for you to understand? 



Stratford57 said:


> I have already answered in my post #303.


And I asked who these Nazis were. The members of Azov or Right Sector or what. My question still stands. 



Stratford57 said:


> You need to share that wisdom with Ukrainian politicians and their overseas bosses. I'm afraid they don't care though.


Start with yourself at first, honey.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The end of a political union with Russia" and "independence" are two different conceptions, you are trying to spin again. So, my dear teacher, INDEPENDENCE from what? Here is a little suggestion for you: independence from all common sense. Even the people from Western Ukraine admit that. Independent Ukraine has been a joke. However you seem to like a special ostrich position in the sand with your butt up.
> 
> 
> 
> At the first turn, political independence from Russia. Is it simple enough for you to understand?
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have already answered in my post #303.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I asked who these Nazis were. The members of Azov or Right Sector or what. My question still stands.
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to share that wisdom with Ukrainian politicians and their overseas bosses. I'm afraid they don't care though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Start with yourself at first, honey.
Click to expand...

Independence from Russia or any other country remains a joke. May be from Mozambique only. And complete independence of all the common sense,  dear ostrich.

Do you think I asked those Nazis whom they were? They were wearing black T-shorts with double wolf hook on them. It was at the same time a shameful and scary view. BTW, if you do live in Ukraine you know that Ukrainian police do not interfere if they decide to attack the people or offices or whatever. We do NOT need Nazis in the streets of our towns, period.

I don't want to argue with you if I lie or not and it doesn't really matter for Ukraine. What does matters is that basically all local and foreign "leaders" have been lying to Ukrainians. So, start preaching to them because your future depends on them, not on me.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The end of a political union with Russia" and "independence" are two different conceptions, you are trying to spin again. So, my dear teacher, INDEPENDENCE from what? Here is a little suggestion for you: independence from all common sense. Even the people from Western Ukraine admit that. Independent Ukraine has been a joke. However you seem to like a special ostrich position in the sand with your butt up.
> 
> 
> 
> At the first turn, political independence from Russia. Is it simple enough for you to understand?
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have already answered in my post #303.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I asked who these Nazis were. The members of Azov or Right Sector or what. My question still stands.
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to share that wisdom with Ukrainian politicians and their overseas bosses. I'm afraid they don't care though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Start with yourself at first, honey.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Independence from Russia or any other country remains a joke. May be from Mozambique only. And complete independence of all the common sense,  dear ostrich.
> 
> Do you think I asked those Nazis whom they were? They were wearing black T-shorts with double wolf hook on them. It was at the same time a shameful and scary view. BTW, if you do live in Ukraine you know that Ukrainian police do not interfere if they decide to attack the people or offices or whatever. We do NOT need Nazis in the streets of our towns, period.
> 
> I don't want to argue with you if I lie or not and it doesn't really matter for Ukraine. What does matters is that basically all local and foreign "leaders" have been lying to Ukrainians. So, start preaching to them because your future depends on them, not on me.
Click to expand...

As I said before, there is no country on the earth which is truly independent. Many countries depend on each other economically. Someone produces equipment, another one buys this equipment to mine coal, someone else buys the coal to produce electricity. 
I was taught these things in the middle school, I suppose. In what grade are you, child? 

The meaning of this holiday is breaking the political union with Russia. 

Many countries have such holiday with the same name. But somehow you aren't pissed off becsuse of that. 

What should I preach to them or someone else, kid?


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The end of a political union with Russia" and "independence" are two different conceptions, you are trying to spin again. So, my dear teacher, INDEPENDENCE from what? Here is a little suggestion for you: independence from all common sense. Even the people from Western Ukraine admit that. Independent Ukraine has been a joke. However you seem to like a special ostrich position in the sand with your butt up.
> 
> 
> 
> At the first turn, political independence from Russia. Is it simple enough for you to understand?
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have already answered in my post #303.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I asked who these Nazis were. The members of Azov or Right Sector or what. My question still stands.
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to share that wisdom with Ukrainian politicians and their overseas bosses. I'm afraid they don't care though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Start with yourself at first, honey.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Independence from Russia or any other country remains a joke. May be from Mozambique only. And complete independence of all the common sense,  dear ostrich.
> 
> Do you think I asked those Nazis whom they were? They were wearing black T-shorts with double wolf hook on them. It was at the same time a shameful and scary view. BTW, if you do live in Ukraine you know that Ukrainian police do not interfere if they decide to attack the people or offices or whatever. We do NOT need Nazis in the streets of our towns, period.
> 
> I don't want to argue with you if I lie or not and it doesn't really matter for Ukraine. What does matters is that basically all local and foreign "leaders" have been lying to Ukrainians. So, start preaching to them because your future depends on them, not on me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As I said before, there is no country on the earth which is truly independent. Many countries depend on each other economically. Someone produces equipment, another one buys this equipment to mine coal, someone else buys the coal to produce electricity.
> I was taught these things in the middle school, I suppose. In what grade are you, child?
> 
> The meaning of this holiday is breaking the political union with Russia.
> 
> Many countries have such holiday with the same name. But somehow you aren't pissed off becsuse of that.
> 
> What should I preach to them or someone else, kid?
Click to expand...

You'll taste your fake independence pretty darn soon when Ukrainian best farmers lands are sold and fake state of Ukraine collapses.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The end of a political union with Russia" and "independence" are two different conceptions, you are trying to spin again. So, my dear teacher, INDEPENDENCE from what? Here is a little suggestion for you: independence from all common sense. Even the people from Western Ukraine admit that. Independent Ukraine has been a joke. However you seem to like a special ostrich position in the sand with your butt up.
> 
> 
> 
> At the first turn, political independence from Russia. Is it simple enough for you to understand?
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have already answered in my post #303.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I asked who these Nazis were. The members of Azov or Right Sector or what. My question still stands.
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to share that wisdom with Ukrainian politicians and their overseas bosses. I'm afraid they don't care though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Start with yourself at first, honey.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Independence from Russia or any other country remains a joke. May be from Mozambique only. And complete independence of all the common sense,  dear ostrich.
> 
> Do you think I asked those Nazis whom they were? They were wearing black T-shorts with double wolf hook on them. It was at the same time a shameful and scary view. BTW, if you do live in Ukraine you know that Ukrainian police do not interfere if they decide to attack the people or offices or whatever. We do NOT need Nazis in the streets of our towns, period.
> 
> I don't want to argue with you if I lie or not and it doesn't really matter for Ukraine. What does matters is that basically all local and foreign "leaders" have been lying to Ukrainians. So, start preaching to them because your future depends on them, not on me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As I said before, there is no country on the earth which is truly independent. Many countries depend on each other economically. Someone produces equipment, another one buys this equipment to mine coal, someone else buys the coal to produce electricity.
> I was taught these things in the middle school, I suppose. In what grade are you, child?
> 
> The meaning of this holiday is breaking the political union with Russia.
> 
> Many countries have such holiday with the same name. But somehow you aren't pissed off becsuse of that.
> 
> What should I preach to them or someone else, kid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You'll taste your fake independence pretty darn soon when Ukrainian best farmers lands are sold and fake state of Ukraine collapses.
Click to expand...

Oh darling, during the last six years I have heard so many predictions from your ilk about soon collapse that I can't even count.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The end of a political union with Russia" and "independence" are two different conceptions, you are trying to spin again. So, my dear teacher, INDEPENDENCE from what? Here is a little suggestion for you: independence from all common sense. Even the people from Western Ukraine admit that. Independent Ukraine has been a joke. However you seem to like a special ostrich position in the sand with your butt up.
> 
> 
> 
> At the first turn, political independence from Russia. Is it simple enough for you to understand?
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have already answered in my post #303.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I asked who these Nazis were. The members of Azov or Right Sector or what. My question still stands.
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to share that wisdom with Ukrainian politicians and their overseas bosses. I'm afraid they don't care though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Start with yourself at first, honey.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Independence from Russia or any other country remains a joke. May be from Mozambique only. And complete independence of all the common sense,  dear ostrich.
> 
> Do you think I asked those Nazis whom they were? They were wearing black T-shorts with double wolf hook on them. It was at the same time a shameful and scary view. BTW, if you do live in Ukraine you know that Ukrainian police do not interfere if they decide to attack the people or offices or whatever. We do NOT need Nazis in the streets of our towns, period.
> 
> I don't want to argue with you if I lie or not and it doesn't really matter for Ukraine. What does matters is that basically all local and foreign "leaders" have been lying to Ukrainians. So, start preaching to them because your future depends on them, not on me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As I said before, there is no country on the earth which is truly independent. Many countries depend on each other economically. Someone produces equipment, another one buys this equipment to mine coal, someone else buys the coal to produce electricity.
> I was taught these things in the middle school, I suppose. In what grade are you, child?
> 
> The meaning of this holiday is breaking the political union with Russia.
> 
> Many countries have such holiday with the same name. But somehow you aren't pissed off becsuse of that.
> 
> What should I preach to them or someone else, kid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You'll taste your fake independence pretty darn soon when Ukrainian best farmers lands are sold and fake state of Ukraine collapses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh darling, during the last six years I have heard so many predictions from your ilk about soon collapse that I can't even count.
Click to expand...

1. Selling Ukrainian lands is NOT a prediction, it's a reality.
2. Thanks God I'm not your darling.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the first turn, political independence from Russia. Is it simple enough for you to understand?
> 
> And I asked who these Nazis were. The members of Azov or Right Sector or what. My question still stands.
> 
> Start with yourself at first, honey.
> 
> 
> 
> Independence from Russia or any other country remains a joke. May be from Mozambique only. And complete independence of all the common sense,  dear ostrich.
> 
> Do you think I asked those Nazis whom they were? They were wearing black T-shorts with double wolf hook on them. It was at the same time a shameful and scary view. BTW, if you do live in Ukraine you know that Ukrainian police do not interfere if they decide to attack the people or offices or whatever. We do NOT need Nazis in the streets of our towns, period.
> 
> I don't want to argue with you if I lie or not and it doesn't really matter for Ukraine. What does matters is that basically all local and foreign "leaders" have been lying to Ukrainians. So, start preaching to them because your future depends on them, not on me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As I said before, there is no country on the earth which is truly independent. Many countries depend on each other economically. Someone produces equipment, another one buys this equipment to mine coal, someone else buys the coal to produce electricity.
> I was taught these things in the middle school, I suppose. In what grade are you, child?
> 
> The meaning of this holiday is breaking the political union with Russia.
> 
> Many countries have such holiday with the same name. But somehow you aren't pissed off becsuse of that.
> 
> What should I preach to them or someone else, kid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You'll taste your fake independence pretty darn soon when Ukrainian best farmers lands are sold and fake state of Ukraine collapses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh darling, during the last six years I have heard so many predictions from your ilk about soon collapse that I can't even count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1. Selling Ukrainian lands is NOT a prediction, it's a reality.
> 2. Thanks God I'm not your darling.
Click to expand...

I want to remind you honey that these lands doesn't belong to the state. Since almost 20 years ago. And what to do with a property is a right of the owner to decide.

Predictions about the collapse, don't play a fool honey.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Independence from Russia or any other country remains a joke. May be from Mozambique only. And complete independence of all the common sense,  dear ostrich.
> 
> Do you think I asked those Nazis whom they were? They were wearing black T-shorts with double wolf hook on them. It was at the same time a shameful and scary view. BTW, if you do live in Ukraine you know that Ukrainian police do not interfere if they decide to attack the people or offices or whatever. We do NOT need Nazis in the streets of our towns, period.
> 
> I don't want to argue with you if I lie or not and it doesn't really matter for Ukraine. What does matters is that basically all local and foreign "leaders" have been lying to Ukrainians. So, start preaching to them because your future depends on them, not on me.
> 
> 
> 
> As I said before, there is no country on the earth which is truly independent. Many countries depend on each other economically. Someone produces equipment, another one buys this equipment to mine coal, someone else buys the coal to produce electricity.
> I was taught these things in the middle school, I suppose. In what grade are you, child?
> 
> The meaning of this holiday is breaking the political union with Russia.
> 
> Many countries have such holiday with the same name. But somehow you aren't pissed off becsuse of that.
> 
> What should I preach to them or someone else, kid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You'll taste your fake independence pretty darn soon when Ukrainian best farmers lands are sold and fake state of Ukraine collapses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh darling, during the last six years I have heard so many predictions from your ilk about soon collapse that I can't even count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1. Selling Ukrainian lands is NOT a prediction, it's a reality.
> 2. Thanks God I'm not your darling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I want to remind you honey that these lands doesn't belong to the state. Since almost 20 years ago. And what to do with a property is a right of the owner to decide.
> 
> Predictions about the collapse, don't play a fool honey.
Click to expand...

I knew there were a lot of Zombies living in  post coup Ukraine but you were able to surprise me with how deep the problem was.

We were talking about fake Ukrainian independence and you were  trying to play a fool but just clearly confirmed: the lands didn't belong to the state. So, what belongs to your "independent' state besides misery, chaos, corruption, unpunished crimes and Nazis?


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> As I said before, there is no country on the earth which is truly independent. Many countries depend on each other economically. Someone produces equipment, another one buys this equipment to mine coal, someone else buys the coal to produce electricity.
> I was taught these things in the middle school, I suppose. In what grade are you, child?
> 
> The meaning of this holiday is breaking the political union with Russia.
> 
> Many countries have such holiday with the same name. But somehow you aren't pissed off becsuse of that.
> 
> What should I preach to them or someone else, kid?
> 
> 
> 
> You'll taste your fake independence pretty darn soon when Ukrainian best farmers lands are sold and fake state of Ukraine collapses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh darling, during the last six years I have heard so many predictions from your ilk about soon collapse that I can't even count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1. Selling Ukrainian lands is NOT a prediction, it's a reality.
> 2. Thanks God I'm not your darling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I want to remind you honey that these lands doesn't belong to the state. Since almost 20 years ago. And what to do with a property is a right of the owner to decide.
> 
> Predictions about the collapse, don't play a fool honey.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I knew there were a lot of Zombies living in  post coup Ukraine but you were able to surprise me with how deep the problem was.
> 
> We were talking about fake Ukrainian independence and you were  trying to play a fool but just clearly confirmed: the lands didn't belong to the state. So, what belongs to your "independent' state besides misery, chaos, corruption, unpunished crimes and Nazis?
Click to expand...

What did you want to say with this flow of consciousness? Do you want to say that you think that it is the state land which will be allowed to sell or what? Have you heard the word 'pai'?


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You'll taste your fake independence pretty darn soon when Ukrainian best farmers lands are sold and fake state of Ukraine collapses.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh darling, during the last six years I have heard so many predictions from your ilk about soon collapse that I can't even count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1. Selling Ukrainian lands is NOT a prediction, it's a reality.
> 2. Thanks God I'm not your darling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I want to remind you honey that these lands doesn't belong to the state. Since almost 20 years ago. And what to do with a property is a right of the owner to decide.
> 
> Predictions about the collapse, don't play a fool honey.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I knew there were a lot of Zombies living in  post coup Ukraine but you were able to surprise me with how deep the problem was.
> 
> We were talking about fake Ukrainian independence and you were  trying to play a fool but just clearly confirmed: the lands didn't belong to the state. So, what belongs to your "independent' state besides misery, chaos, corruption, unpunished crimes and Nazis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What did you want to say with this flow of consciousness? Do you want to say that you think that it is the state land which will be allowed to sell or what? Have you heard the word 'pai'?
Click to expand...

\
I said what I said. Now you pretend not to understand English? Sorry, Russian and Ukrainian letters are forbidden on this forum. 

You seem to be pretty good at spinning, have you been doing it for living?


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh darling, during the last six years I have heard so many predictions from your ilk about soon collapse that I can't even count.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Selling Ukrainian lands is NOT a prediction, it's a reality.
> 2. Thanks God I'm not your darling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I want to remind you honey that these lands doesn't belong to the state. Since almost 20 years ago. And what to do with a property is a right of the owner to decide.
> 
> Predictions about the collapse, don't play a fool honey.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I knew there were a lot of Zombies living in  post coup Ukraine but you were able to surprise me with how deep the problem was.
> 
> We were talking about fake Ukrainian independence and you were  trying to play a fool but just clearly confirmed: the lands didn't belong to the state. So, what belongs to your "independent' state besides misery, chaos, corruption, unpunished crimes and Nazis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What did you want to say with this flow of consciousness? Do you want to say that you think that it is the state land which will be allowed to sell or what? Have you heard the word 'pai'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> \
> I said what I said. Now you pretend not to understand English? Sorry, Russian and Ukrainian letters are forbidden on this forum.
> 
> You seem to be pretty good at spinning, have you been doing it for living?
Click to expand...

You wrote a set of words with little meaning. And it seems you don't understand what you are talking about. 

I will ask once more - Do you understand that this law will allow the selling the land which already is in private property? Do you know what the word 'pai' means?


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Selling Ukrainian lands is NOT a prediction, it's a reality.
> 2. Thanks God I'm not your darling.
> 
> 
> 
> I want to remind you honey that these lands doesn't belong to the state. Since almost 20 years ago. And what to do with a property is a right of the owner to decide.
> 
> Predictions about the collapse, don't play a fool honey.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I knew there were a lot of Zombies living in  post coup Ukraine but you were able to surprise me with how deep the problem was.
> 
> We were talking about fake Ukrainian independence and you were  trying to play a fool but just clearly confirmed: the lands didn't belong to the state. So, what belongs to your "independent' state besides misery, chaos, corruption, unpunished crimes and Nazis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What did you want to say with this flow of consciousness? Do you want to say that you think that it is the state land which will be allowed to sell or what? Have you heard the word 'pai'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> \
> I said what I said. Now you pretend not to understand English? Sorry, Russian and Ukrainian letters are forbidden on this forum.
> 
> You seem to be pretty good at spinning, have you been doing it for living?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You wrote a set of words with little meaning. And it seems you don't understand what you are talking about.
> 
> I will ask once more - Do you understand that this law will allow the selling the land which already is in private property? Do you know what the word 'pai' means?
Click to expand...

Regardless of what this law allows on the paper in our 3rd world corrupt and very dependent on foreigners country technically it will allow whoever from wherever to do whatever they want on the lands they buy: to store/bury chemical and nuclear debris, to grow GMOs and so on and on. Anybody with any remains of brains should be able to understand it. You don't seem to or just pretend?


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to remind you honey that these lands doesn't belong to the state. Since almost 20 years ago. And what to do with a property is a right of the owner to decide.
> 
> Predictions about the collapse, don't play a fool honey.
> 
> 
> 
> I knew there were a lot of Zombies living in  post coup Ukraine but you were able to surprise me with how deep the problem was.
> 
> We were talking about fake Ukrainian independence and you were  trying to play a fool but just clearly confirmed: the lands didn't belong to the state. So, what belongs to your "independent' state besides misery, chaos, corruption, unpunished crimes and Nazis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What did you want to say with this flow of consciousness? Do you want to say that you think that it is the state land which will be allowed to sell or what? Have you heard the word 'pai'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> \
> I said what I said. Now you pretend not to understand English? Sorry, Russian and Ukrainian letters are forbidden on this forum.
> 
> You seem to be pretty good at spinning, have you been doing it for living?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You wrote a set of words with little meaning. And it seems you don't understand what you are talking about.
> 
> I will ask once more - Do you understand that this law will allow the selling the land which already is in private property? Do you know what the word 'pai' means?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Regardless of what this law allows on the paper in our 3rd world corrupt and very dependent on foreigners country technically it will allow whoever from wherever to do whatever they want on the lands they buy: to store/bury chemical and nuclear debris, to grow GMOs and so on and on. Anybody with any remains of brains should be able to understand it. You don't seem to or just pretend?
Click to expand...

It is waste of the money to use one of the best arable lands in the world to store some debris. 

I understand that you are a little bit slow, so I repeat it once more. This land is already private. Do you understand what this word means? And if it was possible no one could forbid the owners to do the things you described above.


----------



## Dissident

I don’t believe that there are many Nazis in Ukraine; in my opinion, the local nationalists are not Nazis, they are anti-Russian.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I knew there were a lot of Zombies living in  post coup Ukraine but you were able to surprise me with how deep the problem was.
> 
> We were talking about fake Ukrainian independence and you were  trying to play a fool but just clearly confirmed: the lands didn't belong to the state. So, what belongs to your "independent' state besides misery, chaos, corruption, unpunished crimes and Nazis?
> 
> 
> 
> What did you want to say with this flow of consciousness? Do you want to say that you think that it is the state land which will be allowed to sell or what? Have you heard the word 'pai'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> \
> I said what I said. Now you pretend not to understand English? Sorry, Russian and Ukrainian letters are forbidden on this forum.
> 
> You seem to be pretty good at spinning, have you been doing it for living?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You wrote a set of words with little meaning. And it seems you don't understand what you are talking about.
> 
> I will ask once more - Do you understand that this law will allow the selling the land which already is in private property? Do you know what the word 'pai' means?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Regardless of what this law allows on the paper in our 3rd world corrupt and very dependent on foreigners country technically it will allow whoever from wherever to do whatever they want on the lands they buy: to store/bury chemical and nuclear debris, to grow GMOs and so on and on. Anybody with any remains of brains should be able to understand it. You don't seem to or just pretend?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is waste of the money to use one of the best arable lands in the world to store some debris.
> 
> I understand that you are a little bit slow, so I repeat it once more. This land is already private. Do you understand what this word means? And if it was possible no one could forbid the owners to do the things you described above.
Click to expand...


Probably,  lands are not privet enough for those who want them. Besides, when whoever buys the lands they will be able to do WHATEVER they want on those lands regardless if it makes sense or not like a monkey with a grenade, you won't be able to control them. And in our corrupt country the laws have been just a joke as well as human rights, Constitution and other things which are supposed to be democratic.







Bright example is Biden who made Poroshenko fire the prosecutor Shokin because Biden didn't want any investigation of his son's criminal activities in  "independent" Ukraine. As we already know, it was pretty darn simple for Biden.

Also nobody has been punished for Busina assassination, for Odessa massacre, for Nazis attacks on churches, TV channels, offices etc.  Ukraine has become wide open for any criminal activity and very dangerous for those who wants to stay honest and fair. If you don't know that you don't live in Ukraine.

All that fake independence (from nobody, basically) has had one of its main goals, selling the lands,  almost achieved and it's coming to _finita la comedia_ now. How can some people be so blind?


----------



## Stratford57

Dissident said:


> I don’t believe that there are many Nazis in Ukraine; in my opinion, the local nationalists are not Nazis, they are anti-Russian.


Well, in 2014 there were about 2000 Nazis in Ukraine, now there are about 1% (of 35 million). It it many or not many? 

I have a lot of details about Ukrainian Nazis posted in this thread if you are interested. I certainly don't want to re-post them.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> What did you want to say with this flow of consciousness? Do you want to say that you think that it is the state land which will be allowed to sell or what? Have you heard the word 'pai'?
> 
> 
> 
> \
> I said what I said. Now you pretend not to understand English? Sorry, Russian and Ukrainian letters are forbidden on this forum.
> 
> You seem to be pretty good at spinning, have you been doing it for living?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You wrote a set of words with little meaning. And it seems you don't understand what you are talking about.
> 
> I will ask once more - Do you understand that this law will allow the selling the land which already is in private property? Do you know what the word 'pai' means?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Regardless of what this law allows on the paper in our 3rd world corrupt and very dependent on foreigners country technically it will allow whoever from wherever to do whatever they want on the lands they buy: to store/bury chemical and nuclear debris, to grow GMOs and so on and on. Anybody with any remains of brains should be able to understand it. You don't seem to or just pretend?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is waste of the money to use one of the best arable lands in the world to store some debris.
> 
> I understand that you are a little bit slow, so I repeat it once more. This land is already private. Do you understand what this word means? And if it was possible no one could forbid the owners to do the things you described above.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably,  lands are not privet enough for those who want them. Besides, when whoever buys the lands they will be able to do WHATEVER they want on those lands regardless if it makes sense or not like a monkey with a grenade, you won't be able to control them. And in our corrupt country the laws have been just a joke as well as human rights, Constitution and other things which are supposed to be democratic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bright example is Biden who made Poroshenko fire the prosecutor Shokin because Biden didn't want any investigation of his son's criminal activities in  "independent" Ukraine. As we already know, it was pretty darn simple for Biden.
> 
> Also nobody has been punished for Busina assassination, for Odessa massacre, for Nazis attacks on churches, TV channels, offices etc.  Ukraine has become wide open for any criminal activity and very dangerous for those who wants to stay honest and fair. If you don't know that you don't live in Ukraine.
> 
> All that fake independence (from nobody, basically) has had one of its main goals, selling the lands,  almost achieved and it's coming to _finita la comedia_ now. How can some people be so blind?
Click to expand...

You seem to be slower than I expected. Okay, I will repeat it once again. The land is already private. This law doesn't change the status. And according to you logic (well, I understand that this word isn't appropriate for you) the owners would already have the possibility to do whatever they want with it. No matters they bought it or something else. 

You can't do whatever you want with land you own. Because there are other laws which regulate producing GMOs for example or changing the status of the land. 

Funny that you are constantly bitching about how corrupt and criminal Ukrainian government is, but at the same time you advocate their control of the land market. That is some form of masochism?


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> Dissident said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t believe that there are many Nazis in Ukraine; in my opinion, the local nationalists are not Nazis, they are anti-Russian.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, in 2014 there were about 2000 Nazis in Ukraine, now there are about 1% (of 35 million). It it many or not many?
> 
> I have a lot of details about Ukrainian Nazis posted in this thread if you are interested. I certainly don't want to re-post them.
Click to expand...

Cool statistic. Where did you get it from? RT?


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> \
> I said what I said. Now you pretend not to understand English? Sorry, Russian and Ukrainian letters are forbidden on this forum.
> 
> You seem to be pretty good at spinning, have you been doing it for living?
> 
> 
> 
> You wrote a set of words with little meaning. And it seems you don't understand what you are talking about.
> 
> I will ask once more - Do you understand that this law will allow the selling the land which already is in private property? Do you know what the word 'pai' means?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Regardless of what this law allows on the paper in our 3rd world corrupt and very dependent on foreigners country technically it will allow whoever from wherever to do whatever they want on the lands they buy: to store/bury chemical and nuclear debris, to grow GMOs and so on and on. Anybody with any remains of brains should be able to understand it. You don't seem to or just pretend?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is waste of the money to use one of the best arable lands in the world to store some debris.
> 
> I understand that you are a little bit slow, so I repeat it once more. This land is already private. Do you understand what this word means? And if it was possible no one could forbid the owners to do the things you described above.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably,  lands are not privet enough for those who want them. Besides, when whoever buys the lands they will be able to do WHATEVER they want on those lands regardless if it makes sense or not like a monkey with a grenade, you won't be able to control them. And in our corrupt country the laws have been just a joke as well as human rights, Constitution and other things which are supposed to be democratic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bright example is Biden who made Poroshenko fire the prosecutor Shokin because Biden didn't want any investigation of his son's criminal activities in  "independent" Ukraine. As we already know, it was pretty darn simple for Biden.
> 
> Also nobody has been punished for Busina assassination, for Odessa massacre, for Nazis attacks on churches, TV channels, offices etc.  Ukraine has become wide open for any criminal activity and very dangerous for those who wants to stay honest and fair. If you don't know that you don't live in Ukraine.
> 
> All that fake independence (from nobody, basically) has had one of its main goals, selling the lands,  almost achieved and it's coming to _finita la comedia_ now. How can some people be so blind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seem to be slower than I expected. Okay, I will repeat it once again. The land is already private. This law doesn't change the status. And according to you logic (well, I understand that this word isn't appropriate for you) the owners would already have the possibility to do whatever they want with it. No matters they bought it or something else.
> 
> You can't do whatever you want with land you own. Because there are other laws which regulate producing GMOs for example or changing the status of the land.
> 
> Funny that you are constantly bitching about how corrupt and criminal Ukrainian government is, but at the same time you advocate their control of the land market. That is some form of masochism?
Click to expand...

So, you don't seem to be bothered with crimes flourishing in Ukraine and with the fact that Ukrainian laws can't (or don't want to) stop them (I tried to remind you about some well known unpunished crimes and you ignored that). But you expect some magic laws to control Ukrainian lands selling. Unbelievable. Be so kind, name some other countries which sold their lands.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dissident said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t believe that there are many Nazis in Ukraine; in my opinion, the local nationalists are not Nazis, they are anti-Russian.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, in 2014 there were about 2000 Nazis in Ukraine, now there are about 1% (of 35 million). It it many or not many?
> 
> I have a lot of details about Ukrainian Nazis posted in this thread if you are interested. I certainly don't want to re-post them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cool statistic. Where did you get it from? RT?
Click to expand...

I basically don't listen to Ukrainian Media, otherwise I would already been same deaf and blind like yourself and millions of other brainwashed Ukrainians. So, yes, I heard that either from Russian Media or from the opposition party. If you have more accurate statistics, please, present it.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> You wrote a set of words with little meaning. And it seems you don't understand what you are talking about.
> 
> I will ask once more - Do you understand that this law will allow the selling the land which already is in private property? Do you know what the word 'pai' means?
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless of what this law allows on the paper in our 3rd world corrupt and very dependent on foreigners country technically it will allow whoever from wherever to do whatever they want on the lands they buy: to store/bury chemical and nuclear debris, to grow GMOs and so on and on. Anybody with any remains of brains should be able to understand it. You don't seem to or just pretend?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is waste of the money to use one of the best arable lands in the world to store some debris.
> 
> I understand that you are a little bit slow, so I repeat it once more. This land is already private. Do you understand what this word means? And if it was possible no one could forbid the owners to do the things you described above.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably,  lands are not privet enough for those who want them. Besides, when whoever buys the lands they will be able to do WHATEVER they want on those lands regardless if it makes sense or not like a monkey with a grenade, you won't be able to control them. And in our corrupt country the laws have been just a joke as well as human rights, Constitution and other things which are supposed to be democratic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bright example is Biden who made Poroshenko fire the prosecutor Shokin because Biden didn't want any investigation of his son's criminal activities in  "independent" Ukraine. As we already know, it was pretty darn simple for Biden.
> 
> Also nobody has been punished for Busina assassination, for Odessa massacre, for Nazis attacks on churches, TV channels, offices etc.  Ukraine has become wide open for any criminal activity and very dangerous for those who wants to stay honest and fair. If you don't know that you don't live in Ukraine.
> 
> All that fake independence (from nobody, basically) has had one of its main goals, selling the lands,  almost achieved and it's coming to _finita la comedia_ now. How can some people be so blind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seem to be slower than I expected. Okay, I will repeat it once again. The land is already private. This law doesn't change the status. And according to you logic (well, I understand that this word isn't appropriate for you) the owners would already have the possibility to do whatever they want with it. No matters they bought it or something else.
> 
> You can't do whatever you want with land you own. Because there are other laws which regulate producing GMOs for example or changing the status of the land.
> 
> Funny that you are constantly bitching about how corrupt and criminal Ukrainian government is, but at the same time you advocate their control of the land market. That is some form of masochism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you don't seem to be bothered with crimes flourishing in Ukraine and with the fact that Ukrainian laws can't (or don't want to) stop them (I tried to remind you about some well known unpunished crimes and you ignored that). But you expect some magic laws to control Ukrainian lands selling. Unbelievable. Be so kind, name some other countries which sold their lands.
Click to expand...

What a stupid question - "sold their lands". Are you playing a fool, trolling or really that dense? Ukraine as a state won't be selling any lands. The owners of these lands are Mykola, Petro, Stepan and other citizens of Ukraine. They are owners, not the state. The fact that Mykola owns the land doesn't change the fact that this land is Ukrainian territory and Ukrainian laws are applied there. When Mykola will sell his land to Petro or some company, the land will change its owner, but at the same time it won't change the fact that the land will be the territory of Ukraine. 

The land market exists in the vast majority of countries. The US is among them for example. 

Yes unbelievable. Corrupt and unlawful government, as you constantly crying, and at the same time you are in favour of this government controlling the land market. That is what unbelievable.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dissident said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t believe that there are many Nazis in Ukraine; in my opinion, the local nationalists are not Nazis, they are anti-Russian.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, in 2014 there were about 2000 Nazis in Ukraine, now there are about 1% (of 35 million). It it many or not many?
> 
> I have a lot of details about Ukrainian Nazis posted in this thread if you are interested. I certainly don't want to re-post them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cool statistic. Where did you get it from? RT?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I basically don't listen to Ukrainian Media, otherwise I would already been same deaf and blind like yourself and millions of other brainwashed Ukrainians. So, yes, I heard that either from Russian Media or from the opposition party. If you have more accurate statistics, please, present it.
Click to expand...

Well, hearing to Russian media doesn't help you either. Or even makes the situation worse. You are the one of the most ignorant persons I have ever talked with. 

I have no statistics. Of course I can made up some figures as surely your sources of the information did (or even you yourself), but for what?


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> You wrote a set of words with little meaning. And it seems you don't understand what you are talking about.
> 
> I will ask once more - Do you understand that this law will allow the selling the land which already is in private property? Do you know what the word 'pai' means?
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless of what this law allows on the paper in our 3rd world corrupt and very dependent on foreigners country technically it will allow whoever from wherever to do whatever they want on the lands they buy: to store/bury chemical and nuclear debris, to grow GMOs and so on and on. Anybody with any remains of brains should be able to understand it. You don't seem to or just pretend?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is waste of the money to use one of the best arable lands in the world to store some debris.
> 
> I understand that you are a little bit slow, so I repeat it once more. This land is already private. Do you understand what this word means? And if it was possible no one could forbid the owners to do the things you described above.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably,  lands are not privet enough for those who want them. Besides, when whoever buys the lands they will be able to do WHATEVER they want on those lands regardless if it makes sense or not like a monkey with a grenade, you won't be able to control them. And in our corrupt country the laws have been just a joke as well as human rights, Constitution and other things which are supposed to be democratic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bright example is Biden who made Poroshenko fire the prosecutor Shokin because Biden didn't want any investigation of his son's criminal activities in  "independent" Ukraine. As we already know, it was pretty darn simple for Biden.
> 
> Also nobody has been punished for Busina assassination, for Odessa massacre, for Nazis attacks on churches, TV channels, offices etc.  Ukraine has become wide open for any criminal activity and very dangerous for those who wants to stay honest and fair. If you don't know that you don't live in Ukraine.
> 
> All that fake independence (from nobody, basically) has had one of its main goals, selling the lands,  almost achieved and it's coming to _finita la comedia_ now. How can some people be so blind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seem to be slower than I expected. Okay, I will repeat it once again. The land is already private. This law doesn't change the status. And according to you logic (well, I understand that this word isn't appropriate for you) the owners would already have the possibility to do whatever they want with it. No matters they bought it or something else.
> 
> You can't do whatever you want with land you own. Because there are other laws which regulate producing GMOs for example or changing the status of the land.
> 
> Funny that you are constantly bitching about how corrupt and criminal Ukrainian government is, but at the same time you advocate their control of the land market. That is some form of masochism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you don't seem to be bothered with crimes flourishing in Ukraine and with the fact that Ukrainian laws can't (or don't want to) stop them (I tried to remind you about some well known unpunished crimes and you ignored that). But you expect some magic laws to control Ukrainian lands selling. Unbelievable. Be so kind, name some other countries which sold their lands.
Click to expand...

That is a interesting short article for you. Japan wants to limit foreigners in buying some lands there. Foreigners will be forbidden to buy lands near military bases, nuclear plants and some other strategic entities. The law may be passed in 2021. Now there are no limits for foreigners to buy land in Japan. 

Does it mean Japan sold it lands, silly child? 

https://w ww.kommersant.ru/doc/4226915


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless of what this law allows on the paper in our 3rd world corrupt and very dependent on foreigners country technically it will allow whoever from wherever to do whatever they want on the lands they buy: to store/bury chemical and nuclear debris, to grow GMOs and so on and on. Anybody with any remains of brains should be able to understand it. You don't seem to or just pretend?
> 
> 
> 
> It is waste of the money to use one of the best arable lands in the world to store some debris.
> 
> I understand that you are a little bit slow, so I repeat it once more. This land is already private. Do you understand what this word means? And if it was possible no one could forbid the owners to do the things you described above.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably,  lands are not privet enough for those who want them. Besides, when whoever buys the lands they will be able to do WHATEVER they want on those lands regardless if it makes sense or not like a monkey with a grenade, you won't be able to control them. And in our corrupt country the laws have been just a joke as well as human rights, Constitution and other things which are supposed to be democratic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bright example is Biden who made Poroshenko fire the prosecutor Shokin because Biden didn't want any investigation of his son's criminal activities in  "independent" Ukraine. As we already know, it was pretty darn simple for Biden.
> 
> Also nobody has been punished for Busina assassination, for Odessa massacre, for Nazis attacks on churches, TV channels, offices etc.  Ukraine has become wide open for any criminal activity and very dangerous for those who wants to stay honest and fair. If you don't know that you don't live in Ukraine.
> 
> All that fake independence (from nobody, basically) has had one of its main goals, selling the lands,  almost achieved and it's coming to _finita la comedia_ now. How can some people be so blind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seem to be slower than I expected. Okay, I will repeat it once again. The land is already private. This law doesn't change the status. And according to you logic (well, I understand that this word isn't appropriate for you) the owners would already have the possibility to do whatever they want with it. No matters they bought it or something else.
> 
> You can't do whatever you want with land you own. Because there are other laws which regulate producing GMOs for example or changing the status of the land.
> 
> Funny that you are constantly bitching about how corrupt and criminal Ukrainian government is, but at the same time you advocate their control of the land market. That is some form of masochism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you don't seem to be bothered with crimes flourishing in Ukraine and with the fact that Ukrainian laws can't (or don't want to) stop them (I tried to remind you about some well known unpunished crimes and you ignored that). But you expect some magic laws to control Ukrainian lands selling. Unbelievable. Be so kind, name some other countries which sold their lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What a stupid question - "sold their lands". Are you playing a fool, trolling or really that dense? Ukraine as a state won't be selling any lands. The owners of these lands are Mykola, Petro, Stepan and other citizens of Ukraine. They are owners, not the state. The fact that Mykola owns the land doesn't change the fact that this land is Ukrainian territory and Ukrainian laws are applied there. When Mykola will sell his land to Petro or some company, the land will change its owner, but at the same time it won't change the fact that the land will be the territory of Ukraine.
> 
> The land market exists in the vast majority of countries. The US is among them for example.
> 
> Yes unbelievable. Corrupt and unlawful government, as you constantly crying, and at the same time you are in favour of this government controlling the land market. That is what unbelievable.
Click to expand...

Law enforcement is still strong in US (as well as in Japan mentioned by you) that’s why crooks like Biden prefer make their dirty money in 3rd world countries like Ukraine.

Same people who have been destroying USA (slowly) are now destroying Ukraine (very quickly).  Americans call them Deep State and Soros is one of them. Soros is going to buy the vast majority of Ukrainian lands (through shell companies, of course). I’m sure Ukrainian Media will never mention his name. But all your Mykolas and Petros will end up with the same last name: Soros. And you, ostriches, are welcoming it.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Well, hearing to Russian media doesn't help you either. Or even makes the situation worse. You are the one of the most ignorant persons I have ever talked with.
> 
> I have no statistics. Of course I can made up some figures as surely your sources of the information did (or even you yourself), but for what?



You have no statistics because Ukrainian Media hates to admit the amount of Nazis in Ukraine otherwise all the platform for "independent" post coup Ukraine based on hate to Russia and all Russian may collapse.

FYI, Russian Media has been delivering the truth about the events I know about from my own experience or the my people tell me about. Ukrainian Media is just bunch of aggressive lies.

Here is a French documentary (posted by RT)  about the Bidens’s crimes  in Ukraine (which I mentioned above) with the help of Ukrainian officials and supported with all kinds of documents. Watch and make up your own mind if it’s true or not and tell me how many lies you can find there.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is waste of the money to use one of the best arable lands in the world to store some debris.
> 
> I understand that you are a little bit slow, so I repeat it once more. This land is already private. Do you understand what this word means? And if it was possible no one could forbid the owners to do the things you described above.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably,  lands are not privet enough for those who want them. Besides, when whoever buys the lands they will be able to do WHATEVER they want on those lands regardless if it makes sense or not like a monkey with a grenade, you won't be able to control them. And in our corrupt country the laws have been just a joke as well as human rights, Constitution and other things which are supposed to be democratic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bright example is Biden who made Poroshenko fire the prosecutor Shokin because Biden didn't want any investigation of his son's criminal activities in  "independent" Ukraine. As we already know, it was pretty darn simple for Biden.
> 
> Also nobody has been punished for Busina assassination, for Odessa massacre, for Nazis attacks on churches, TV channels, offices etc.  Ukraine has become wide open for any criminal activity and very dangerous for those who wants to stay honest and fair. If you don't know that you don't live in Ukraine.
> 
> All that fake independence (from nobody, basically) has had one of its main goals, selling the lands,  almost achieved and it's coming to _finita la comedia_ now. How can some people be so blind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seem to be slower than I expected. Okay, I will repeat it once again. The land is already private. This law doesn't change the status. And according to you logic (well, I understand that this word isn't appropriate for you) the owners would already have the possibility to do whatever they want with it. No matters they bought it or something else.
> 
> You can't do whatever you want with land you own. Because there are other laws which regulate producing GMOs for example or changing the status of the land.
> 
> Funny that you are constantly bitching about how corrupt and criminal Ukrainian government is, but at the same time you advocate their control of the land market. That is some form of masochism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you don't seem to be bothered with crimes flourishing in Ukraine and with the fact that Ukrainian laws can't (or don't want to) stop them (I tried to remind you about some well known unpunished crimes and you ignored that). But you expect some magic laws to control Ukrainian lands selling. Unbelievable. Be so kind, name some other countries which sold their lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What a stupid question - "sold their lands". Are you playing a fool, trolling or really that dense? Ukraine as a state won't be selling any lands. The owners of these lands are Mykola, Petro, Stepan and other citizens of Ukraine. They are owners, not the state. The fact that Mykola owns the land doesn't change the fact that this land is Ukrainian territory and Ukrainian laws are applied there. When Mykola will sell his land to Petro or some company, the land will change its owner, but at the same time it won't change the fact that the land will be the territory of Ukraine.
> 
> The land market exists in the vast majority of countries. The US is among them for example.
> 
> Yes unbelievable. Corrupt and unlawful government, as you constantly crying, and at the same time you are in favour of this government controlling the land market. That is what unbelievable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Law enforcement is still strong in US (as well as in Japan mentioned by you) that’s why crooks like Biden prefer make their dirty money in 3rd world countries like Ukraine.
> 
> Same people who have been destroying USA (slowly) are now destroying Ukraine (very quickly).  Americans call them Deep State and Soros is one of them. Soros is going to buy the vast majority of Ukrainian lands (through shell companies, of course). I’m sure Ukrainian Media will never mention his name. But all your Mykolas and Petros will end up with the same last name: Soros. And you, ostriches, are welcoming it.
> 
> View attachment 301918
Click to expand...

Your obsession about Soros is just laughable and ridiculous. No honey, it is a boogyman for your first grade mates. 

Destroying Ukraine? You can call it this way. But unless you get rid of your 'sovok' mentality, you won't understand the processes unfolding in Ukraine. Including about the land market. It is a hard and difficult way. But I support it. 

Unfortunately, your one cell brain can only process the stories about the Nazis and Soros. Some time ago there was added the Biden function. That is the full capacity it seems.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> But unless you get rid of your 'sovok' mentality, you won't understand the processes unfolding in Ukraine. Including about the land market. It is a hard and difficult way. But I support it.



Ukrainians like yourself are lot more brainwashed than anybody in Soviet times, your posts have been clearly proving it. And you are still a sovok, just a new Ukrainian type of sovok buying Ukrainian Pravda.


The last but perhaps most important example is *media*. It holds the key to public opinion and, thus, ultimately to progress in the country. Today, *the majority of Ukrainian media rely on the financial support of oligarchs or international donors. Their business model is advocacy of interests of their funders against those of their opponents*. If reforms are successful, that model is dead.
How Ukraine’s Never Ending Transition Makes the Rich Richer and Everyone Else Poorer - Atlantic Council


----------



## Stratford57

I didn't attach the link to my previous post.

Here is a French documentary (posted by RT)  about the Bidens’s crimes  in Ukraine (which I mentioned above) with the help of Ukrainian officials and supported with all kinds of documents. Watch and make up your own mind if it’s true or not and tell me how many lies you can find there.
UkraineGate: MSM believed Biden’s narrative, but documentary reveals ousted prosecutor had 6 cases against Burisma


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> But unless you get rid of your 'sovok' mentality, you won't understand the processes unfolding in Ukraine. Including about the land market. It is a hard and difficult way. But I support it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainians like yourself are lot more brainwashed than anybody in Soviet times, your posts have been clearly proving it. And you are still a sovok, just a new Ukrainian type of sovok buying Ukrainian Pravda.
> 
> 
> The last but perhaps most important example is *media*. It holds the key to public opinion and, thus, ultimately to progress in the country. Today, *the majority of Ukrainian media rely on the financial support of oligarchs or international donors. Their business model is advocacy of interests of their funders against those of their opponents*. If reforms are successful, that model is dead.
> How Ukraine’s Never Ending Transition Makes the Rich Richer and Everyone Else Poorer - Atlantic Council
Click to expand...

One of the main sources of information for me is Russian media Kommersant, you silly child. 

Did you read the article you posted? It was written by Timofey Milovanov, the current Economy Minister, btw. There was written about the situation with the land market among others. But as I can understand your one cell brain wasn't able to fully comprehend the article.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> But unless you get rid of your 'sovok' mentality, you won't understand the processes unfolding in Ukraine. Including about the land market. It is a hard and difficult way. But I support it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainians like yourself are lot more brainwashed than anybody in Soviet times, your posts have been clearly proving it. And you are still a sovok, just a new Ukrainian type of sovok buying Ukrainian Pravda.
> 
> 
> The last but perhaps most important example is *media*. It holds the key to public opinion and, thus, ultimately to progress in the country. Today, *the majority of Ukrainian media rely on the financial support of oligarchs or international donors. Their business model is advocacy of interests of their funders against those of their opponents*. If reforms are successful, that model is dead.
> How Ukraine’s Never Ending Transition Makes the Rich Richer and Everyone Else Poorer - Atlantic Council
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One of the main sources of information for me is Russian media Kommersant, you silly child.
> 
> Did you read the article you posted? It was written by Timofey Milovanov, the current Economy Minister, btw. There was written about the situation with the land market among others. But as I can understand your one cell brain wasn't able to fully comprehend the article.
Click to expand...


The article  has made it sound as though land markets have been suspended a number of times and are still not in effect. Do you have any clue about what are you talking about, doesn't sound like it?  If you do please contrast and compare the differences between land markets and market economies. And discuss the weaknesses and strengths of either or both.

And how many lies have you found in :
UkraineGate: MSM believed Biden’s narrative, but documentary reveals ousted prosecutor had 6 cases against Burisma
which was presented by RT?


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> But unless you get rid of your 'sovok' mentality, you won't understand the processes unfolding in Ukraine. Including about the land market. It is a hard and difficult way. But I support it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainians like yourself are lot more brainwashed than anybody in Soviet times, your posts have been clearly proving it. And you are still a sovok, just a new Ukrainian type of sovok buying Ukrainian Pravda.
> 
> 
> The last but perhaps most important example is *media*. It holds the key to public opinion and, thus, ultimately to progress in the country. Today, *the majority of Ukrainian media rely on the financial support of oligarchs or international donors. Their business model is advocacy of interests of their funders against those of their opponents*. If reforms are successful, that model is dead.
> How Ukraine’s Never Ending Transition Makes the Rich Richer and Everyone Else Poorer - Atlantic Council
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One of the main sources of information for me is Russian media Kommersant, you silly child.
> 
> Did you read the article you posted? It was written by Timofey Milovanov, the current Economy Minister, btw. There was written about the situation with the land market among others. But as I can understand your one cell brain wasn't able to fully comprehend the article.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The article  has made it sound as though land markets have been suspended a number of times and are still not in effect. Do you have any clue about what are you talking about, doesn't sound like it?  If you do please contrast and compare the differences between land markets and market economies. And discuss the weaknesses and strengths of either or both.
> 
> And how many lies have you found in :
> UkraineGate: MSM believed Biden’s narrative, but documentary reveals ousted prosecutor had 6 cases against Burisma
> which was presented by RT?
Click to expand...

The article also says that in Ukraine so called grey market of the land came to existence. Do you understand what this means? It means that with the help of corrupt officials you can buy or sell land despite official moratorium.

In my opinion, establishing open land market is a strong counter-corruption measure.

Compare the differences between land markets and markets economies? What does it mean? The land market is a part of the market economy.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> The article also says that in Ukraine so called grey market of the land came to existence. Do you understand what this means? It means that with the help of corrupt officials you can buy or sell land despite official moratorium.


The article says only 2 things about land market:
1. There is a shadow market for land, but the legislature has extended the land market moratorium sixteen times.
2. Some oppose international competition that liberalizing the land market might bring.

I don’t see the author advocating the free land market here, it could mean number of solutions, getting rid of corruption (as Maidan leaders proclaimed and never did) could be one of them.



ESay said:


> In my opinion, establishing open land market is a strong counter-corruption measure.


If the government has proper regulations and zoning that it enforces then private individuals could be allowed to sell their private properties in a free market. Corruption can buy any regulations. Until there is a transparency in Ukraine the government can’t be trusted to do what is best for Ukrainian citizens.



ESay said:


> The land market is a part of the market economy.



Not true for the 3rd world corrupt countries like Ukraine: there is NO free market where corruption sets the price and determines the buyer, especially, for land.


P.S. Since you remain silent about RT article I posted, I guess there was NO lies there.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> The article also says that in Ukraine so called grey market of the land came to existence. Do you understand what this means? It means that with the help of corrupt officials you can buy or sell land despite official moratorium.
> 
> 
> 
> The article says only 2 things about land market:
> 1. There is a shadow market for land, but the legislature has extended the land market moratorium sixteen times.
> 2. Some oppose international competition that liberalizing the land market might bring.
> 
> I don’t see the author advocating the free land market here, it could mean number of solutions, getting rid of corruption (as Maidan leaders proclaimed and never did) could be one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> In my opinion, establishing open land market is a strong counter-corruption measure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If the government has proper regulations and zoning that it enforces then private individuals could be allowed to sell their private properties in a free market. Corruption can buy any regulations. Until there is a transparency in Ukraine the government can’t be trusted to do what is best for Ukrainian citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> The land market is a part of the market economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not true for the 3rd world corrupt countries like Ukraine: there is NO free market where corruption sets the price and determines the buyer, especially, for land.
> 
> 
> P.S. Since you remain silent about RT article I posted, I guess there was NO lies there.
Click to expand...

It is directly not said about free land market. But considering that the author is a member of the government now which is trying to establish this market, I suppose that he meant exactly that. 

I don't believe in big government. I think the more government has regulatory functions and the more it has ways to influence economy and private businesses, then the more chances are that the corruotion in this government will thrive. 

I haven't read the RT article and don't have much desire to do so. You can say in a nutshell what is written there if you want.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> It is directly not said about free land market. But considering that the author is a member of the government now which is trying to establish this market, I suppose that he meant exactly that.


 Ukraine as well as its government is under external control anyway. 



ESay said:


> I don't believe in big government. I think the more government has regulatory functions and the more it has ways to influence economy and private businesses, then the more chances are that the corruotion in this government will thrive.



Land market can't exist without regulations and without transparency corruption can easily get around any of them.



ESay said:


> I haven't read the RT article and don't have much desire to do so. You can say in a nutshell what is written there if you want.


Then you can't RT is lying. Also I have a feeling you are not happy that Rudy Guiliany  wants to investigate Biden's crimes in Ukraine because the world has a chance to know a lot of ugly truth about Ukraine. Don't worry, in our corrupt Ukraine it's not gonna happen.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is directly not said about free land market. But considering that the author is a member of the government now which is trying to establish this market, I suppose that he meant exactly that.
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine as well as its government is under external control anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe in big government. I think the more government has regulatory functions and the more it has ways to influence economy and private businesses, then the more chances are that the corruotion in this government will thrive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Land market can't exist without regulations and without transparency corruption can easily get around any of them.
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't read the RT article and don't have much desire to do so. You can say in a nutshell what is written there if you want.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then you can't RT is lying. Also I have a feeling you are not happy that Rudy Guiliany  wants to investigate Biden's crimes in Ukraine because the world has a chance to know a lot of ugly truth about Ukraine. Don't worry, in our corrupt Ukraine it's not gonna happen.
Click to expand...

There should be as few regulations as possible. The gevernment's influence on economy should be as low as possible. The government should be as small as possible. Do you get my idea? What else do you want to hear from me? 

I should underline that there are no easy and quick solutions to get out of the situation Ukraine is now because of the years of mismanagement and corruption. 

And establishing land market, full scale privatisation (except of a handful of strategic companies such as Energoatom) and significant lowering of state regulations are the steps which are inevitable. Of course they are not ideal and there are risks, but I am sure Ukraine should do them. 

There are many fields in Ukraine that must be reformed - the judicial system (including our police because the reform which was undertaken is far from sufficient), the elections system, the authority of local communities, health care, pensions and so on. 

----------
I am not much concerned about an investigation against Biden. I am not sure what crimes you mean. If you are about Burisma, then what I can say about it is that Burisma is a private company owned by a former Yanukovich's official Zlochevsky (he was an Ecology Minister, IIRC). Basically, it is a right of the owner to hire everyone he wants. Why there was a need to hire a son of high-ranked American official after the change of power, one can guess.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> There should be as few regulations as possible. The gevernment's influence on economy should be as low as possible. The government should be as small as possible. Do you get my idea? What else do you want to hear from me?


Quantity of regulations means a lot less than their quality. Transparency is the most important factor (which is impossible in our corrupt country)  which you don’t seem to care much about and ready to invite even more corruption. 



ESay said:


> I am not much concerned about an investigation against Biden. I am not sure what crimes you mean. If you are about Burisma, then what I can say about it is that Burisma is a private company owned by a former Yanukovich's official Zlochevsky (he was an Ecology Minister, IIRC). Basically, it is a right of the owner to hire everyone he wants. Why there was a need to hire a son of high-ranked American official after the change of power, one can guess.


1. A foreign country VP Biden was interfering in Ukrainian internal affairs by blackmailing Poroshenko with firing Shokin who was prosecuting his son’s suspicious  activities in Ukraine. Biden admitting it himself. Not a crime from your point of view?

2. Biden stole millions from your country (that’s just what became public) and never has been investigated in “independent” Ukraine which can’t even think about investigating her overseas bosses. Again you don’t  care about investigation and the finding out the truth.
BREAKING, Ukraine MP Says Hunter Biden Stole Millions From Ukrainian Citizens



ESay said:


> Burisma is a private company owned by a former Yanukovich's official Zlochevsky (he was an Ecology Minister, IIRC)..


Poroshenko was also in Yanukovich administration. Big problem of Ukraine is that  almost all Ukrainian politicians have been political prostitutes

Poroshenko saw the Orange parties swept from power in 2010. Poroshenko resumed his affiliation with the Party of Regions in 2012, when he became minister of trade in the cabinet of Pres. Viktor Yanukovych.
Petro Poroshenko | Facts & Biography

All that ^ doesn’t seem to bother "patriots" like you. Unbelievable… Why were you  preaching me about honesty then?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

ph3iron said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> ph3iron said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> The USA hasn't defaulted on any debt, silly Commie.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, and Commies actually killed the Czar, dear smart person. Stay with the subject of the thread if you would.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Killing the Czar doesn't mean Commies can just default on their debt.
> 
> Still working on the list of differences between Nazis and Commies?
> Or are you admitting they're basically the same thing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ever bothered to look up the definitions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never. He prefers to bother us instead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suspect our zero college patriot didn't know adolf hated commies and socialists.
> That why he inserted "national" into his socialist perty.
> And lost the war by attacking Russia in the winter.
> Ah well
Click to expand...


*adolf hated commies and socialists.*

Yup, big government fascists hate big government commies.
Stalinists hated Trotskyists hated Mensheviks etc.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

ph3iron said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> ph3iron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, and Commyies actually killed the Czar, dear smart person. Stay with the subject of the thread if you would.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Killing the Czar doesn't mean Commies can just default on their debt.
> 
> Still working on the list of differences between Nazis and Commies?
> Or are you admitting they're basically the same thing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ever bothered to look up the definitions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never. He prefers to bother us instead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I love when Commies pretend Nazis are more evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yup, don't see ayran in the commie def.
> Nazi
> a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, which controlled Germany from 1933 to 1945 under Adolf Hitler and advocated totalitarian government, territorial expansion, anti-Semitism, and Aryan supremacy, all these leading directly to World War II and the Holocaust.
> 
> Ah,info, too much to ask from trumpanzees/ trump u??
Click to expand...


*Yup, don't see ayran in the commie def.*

Oh, the tens of millions killed by communists feel better knowing that.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
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> ESay said:
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> Stratford57 said:
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> ESay said:
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> 
> 
> I want to remind you honey that these lands doesn't belong to the state. Since almost 20 years ago. And what to do with a property is a right of the owner to decide.
> 
> Predictions about the collapse, don't play a fool honey.
> 
> 
> 
> I knew there were a lot of Zombies living in  post coup Ukraine but you were able to surprise me with how deep the problem was.
> 
> We were talking about fake Ukrainian independence and you were  trying to play a fool but just clearly confirmed: the lands didn't belong to the state. So, what belongs to your "independent' state besides misery, chaos, corruption, unpunished crimes and Nazis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What did you want to say with this flow of consciousness? Do you want to say that you think that it is the state land which will be allowed to sell or what? Have you heard the word 'pai'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> \
> I said what I said. Now you pretend not to understand English? Sorry, Russian and Ukrainian letters are forbidden on this forum.
> 
> You seem to be pretty good at spinning, have you been doing it for living?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You wrote a set of words with little meaning. And it seems you don't understand what you are talking about.
> 
> I will ask once more - Do you understand that this law will allow the selling the land which already is in private property? Do you know what the word 'pai' means?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Regardless of what this law allows on the paper in our 3rd world corrupt and very dependent on foreigners country technically it will allow whoever from wherever to do whatever they want on the lands they buy: to store/bury chemical and nuclear debris, to grow GMOs and so on and on. Anybody with any remains of brains should be able to understand it. You don't seem to or just pretend?
Click to expand...


*it will allow whoever from wherever to do whatever they want on the lands they buy: to store/bury chemical and nuclear debris, *

Outrageous!!!

Only Mother Russia is allowed to do that to Ukraine, eh comrade?


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> ph3iron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
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> ph3iron said:
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> 
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> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, and Commies actually killed the Czar, dear smart person. Stay with the subject of the thread if you would.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Killing the Czar doesn't mean Commies can just default on their debt.
> 
> Still working on the list of differences between Nazis and Commies?
> Or are you admitting they're basically the same thing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ever bothered to look up the definitions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never. He prefers to bother us instead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suspect our zero college patriot didn't know adolf hated commies and socialists.
> That why he inserted "national" into his socialist perty.
> And lost the war by attacking Russia in the winter.
> Ah well
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *adolf hated commies and socialists.*
> 
> Yup, big government fascists hate big government commies.
> Stalinists hated Trotskyists hated Mensheviks etc.
Click to expand...

Trolling again, comrade?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
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> ESay said:
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> Stratford57 said:
> 
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> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is waste of the money to use one of the best arable lands in the world to store some debris.
> 
> I understand that you are a little bit slow, so I repeat it once more. This land is already private. Do you understand what this word means? And if it was possible no one could forbid the owners to do the things you described above.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably,  lands are not privet enough for those who want them. Besides, when whoever buys the lands they will be able to do WHATEVER they want on those lands regardless if it makes sense or not like a monkey with a grenade, you won't be able to control them. And in our corrupt country the laws have been just a joke as well as human rights, Constitution and other things which are supposed to be democratic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bright example is Biden who made Poroshenko fire the prosecutor Shokin because Biden didn't want any investigation of his son's criminal activities in  "independent" Ukraine. As we already know, it was pretty darn simple for Biden.
> 
> Also nobody has been punished for Busina assassination, for Odessa massacre, for Nazis attacks on churches, TV channels, offices etc.  Ukraine has become wide open for any criminal activity and very dangerous for those who wants to stay honest and fair. If you don't know that you don't live in Ukraine.
> 
> All that fake independence (from nobody, basically) has had one of its main goals, selling the lands,  almost achieved and it's coming to _finita la comedia_ now. How can some people be so blind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seem to be slower than I expected. Okay, I will repeat it once again. The land is already private. This law doesn't change the status. And according to you logic (well, I understand that this word isn't appropriate for you) the owners would already have the possibility to do whatever they want with it. No matters they bought it or something else.
> 
> You can't do whatever you want with land you own. Because there are other laws which regulate producing GMOs for example or changing the status of the land.
> 
> Funny that you are constantly bitching about how corrupt and criminal Ukrainian government is, but at the same time you advocate their control of the land market. That is some form of masochism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you don't seem to be bothered with crimes flourishing in Ukraine and with the fact that Ukrainian laws can't (or don't want to) stop them (I tried to remind you about some well known unpunished crimes and you ignored that). But you expect some magic laws to control Ukrainian lands selling. Unbelievable. Be so kind, name some other countries which sold their lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What a stupid question - "sold their lands". Are you playing a fool, trolling or really that dense? Ukraine as a state won't be selling any lands. The owners of these lands are Mykola, Petro, Stepan and other citizens of Ukraine. They are owners, not the state. The fact that Mykola owns the land doesn't change the fact that this land is Ukrainian territory and Ukrainian laws are applied there. When Mykola will sell his land to Petro or some company, the land will change its owner, but at the same time it won't change the fact that the land will be the territory of Ukraine.
> 
> The land market exists in the vast majority of countries. The US is among them for example.
> 
> Yes unbelievable. Corrupt and unlawful government, as you constantly crying, and at the same time you are in favour of this government controlling the land market. That is what unbelievable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Law enforcement is still strong in US (as well as in Japan mentioned by you) that’s why crooks like Biden prefer make their dirty money in 3rd world countries like Ukraine.
> 
> Same people who have been destroying USA (slowly) are now destroying Ukraine (very quickly).  Americans call them Deep State and Soros is one of them. Soros is going to buy the vast majority of Ukrainian lands (through shell companies, of course). I’m sure Ukrainian Media will never mention his name. But all your Mykolas and Petros will end up with the same last name: Soros. And you, ostriches, are welcoming it.
> 
> View attachment 301918
Click to expand...


*Soros is going to buy the vast majority of Ukrainian lands*

How many acres? Is he going to move them somewhere?

Is he going to take them with when he dies?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ph3iron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ph3iron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Killing the Czar doesn't mean Commies can just default on their debt.
> 
> Still working on the list of differences between Nazis and Commies?
> Or are you admitting they're basically the same thing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ever bothered to look up the definitions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never. He prefers to bother us instead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suspect our zero college patriot didn't know adolf hated commies and socialists.
> That why he inserted "national" into his socialist perty.
> And lost the war by attacking Russia in the winter.
> Ah well
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *adolf hated commies and socialists.*
> 
> Yup, big government fascists hate big government commies.
> Stalinists hated Trotskyists hated Mensheviks etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Trolling again, comrade?
Click to expand...


If that's what you call mocking Russian idiocy......sure.


----------



## Stratford57

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ph3iron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ph3iron said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ever bothered to look up the definitions?
> 
> 
> 
> Never. He prefers to bother us instead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suspect our zero college patriot didn't know adolf hated commies and socialists.
> That why he inserted "national" into his socialist perty.
> And lost the war by attacking Russia in the winter.
> Ah well
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *adolf hated commies and socialists.*
> 
> Yup, big government fascists hate big government commies.
> Stalinists hated Trotskyists hated Mensheviks etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Trolling again, comrade?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If that's what you call mocking Russian idiocy......sure.
Click to expand...

with demonstrating your idiocy? Be my guest.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ph3iron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Never. He prefers to bother us instead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect our zero college patriot didn't know adolf hated commies and socialists.
> That why he inserted "national" into his socialist perty.
> And lost the war by attacking Russia in the winter.
> Ah well
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *adolf hated commies and socialists.*
> 
> Yup, big government fascists hate big government commies.
> Stalinists hated Trotskyists hated Mensheviks etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Trolling again, comrade?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If that's what you call mocking Russian idiocy......sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> with demonstrating your idiocy? Be my guest.
Click to expand...


Poor Commies.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> Quantity of regulations means a lot less than their quality. Transparency is the most important factor (which is impossible in our corrupt country) which you don’t seem to care much about and ready to invite even more corruption.


Quantity, quality of regulations. What a crap. I think that even your class mates will understand that open market with little influence from state officials
should lead to lowering corruption. Because if you don't need their 'services' the why to bribe them? 



Stratford57 said:


> foreign country VP Biden was interfering in Ukrainian internal affairs by blackmailing Poroshenko with firing Shokin who was prosecuting his son’s suspicious activities in Ukraine. Biden admitting it himself. Not a crime from your point of view?


I associate Shokin with the case of so called diamond prosecutors which he closed. Also, he did his best to prevent the creation of Special counter-corruption prosecutors office. So, I gladly said him good bye. 

And what was the result of his investigation? 



Stratford57 said:


> Biden stole millions from your country (that’s just what became public) and never has been investigated in “independent” Ukraine which can’t even think about investigating her overseas bosses. Again you don’t care about investigation and the finding out the truth.
> BREAKING, Ukraine MP Says Hunter Biden Stole Millions From Ukrainian Citizens


As I said above Burisma is a private company and it is a right of the owner to hire everyone he wants and pay everything he wants. If Burisma used state money and spent them illegally, than this should be investigated. 

Derkach as a member of the parliament can send an official inquiry to General Prosecutor's office about this matter. Have he done that? 

Btw, your links refute your previous claims. It is said there that Yanukovich managed to laundry more that 7 billion dollars through an investment fund. But some pages ago you stated that there is no evidence of Yanukovich's corruption. And you want to be seriously taken? 



Stratford57 said:


> Poroshenko was also in Yanukovich administration. Big problem of Ukraine is that almost all Ukrainian politicians have been political prostitutes
> 
> Poroshenko saw the Orange parties swept from power in 2010. Poroshenko resumed his affiliation with the Party of Regions in 2012, when he became minister of trade in the cabinet of Pres. Viktor Yanukovych.
> Petro Poroshenko | Facts & Biography


Poroshenko is a member of the old system as well as Yanukovich, Kuchma and other former high ranked officials are. And I wrote about this here not once. 

The main achievement of Poroshenko is that he thwarted attempts to drag Ukraine back to Russia's orbit.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Quantity of regulations means a lot less than their quality. Transparency is the most important factor (which is impossible in our corrupt country) which you don’t seem to care much about and ready to invite even more corruption.
> 
> 
> 
> Quantity, quality of regulations. What a crap. I think that even your class mates will understand that open market with little influence from state officials
> should lead to lowering corruption. Because if you don't need their 'services' the why to bribe them?
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> foreign country VP Biden was interfering in Ukrainian internal affairs by blackmailing Poroshenko with firing Shokin who was prosecuting his son’s suspicious activities in Ukraine. Biden admitting it himself. Not a crime from your point of view?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I associate Shokin with the case of so called diamond prosecutors which he closed. Also, he did his best to prevent the creation of Special counter-corruption prosecutors office. So, I gladly said him good bye.
> 
> And what was the result of his investigation?
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Biden stole millions from your country (that’s just what became public) and never has been investigated in “independent” Ukraine which can’t even think about investigating her overseas bosses. Again you don’t care about investigation and the finding out the truth.
> BREAKING, Ukraine MP Says Hunter Biden Stole Millions From Ukrainian Citizens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As I said above Burisma is a private company and it is a right of the owner to hire everyone he wants and pay everything he wants. If Burisma used state money and spent them illegally, than this should be investigated.
> 
> Derkach as a member of the parliament can send an official inquiry to General Prosecutor's office about this matter. Have he done that?
> 
> Btw, your links refute your previous claims. It is said there that Yanukovich managed to laundry more that 7 billion dollars through an investment fund. But some pages ago you stated that there is no evidence of Yanukovich's corruption. And you want to be seriously taken?
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Poroshenko was also in Yanukovich administration. Big problem of Ukraine is that almost all Ukrainian politicians have been political prostitutes
> 
> Poroshenko saw the Orange parties swept from power in 2010. Poroshenko resumed his affiliation with the Party of Regions in 2012, when he became minister of trade in the cabinet of Pres. Viktor Yanukovych.
> Petro Poroshenko | Facts & Biography
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Poroshenko is a member of the old system as well as Yanukovich, Kuchma and other former high ranked officials are. And I wrote about this here not once.
> 
> The main achievement of Poroshenko is that he thwarted attempts to drag Ukraine back to Russia's orbit.
Click to expand...

1. Dude, either you  have no experience in a real world in buying/selling property you just  want to join those crooks who keep robbing our country. Biden&son were just two of many.

2. To say that poroshenko tried "to drag Ukraine back to Russia's orbit" is just insane. He was successfully dragging us to Washington's orbit, technically, turning us into a their colony. And starting the war with Donbass blaming Russia for that must have been "dragging Ukraine back to Russia's orbit"  too according to your logic?


How about Kolomoysky, the boss of our current president, which system he belongs: old or new? And what's "new system" if not the same old system with new faces?

BTW, interesting event has happened a couple of days ago: 
The CIA *declassified documents* under the law that requires the exposing of Nazi war criminals. 

*In the document*, American intelligence officials describe Bandera as a “fascist” and “agent of Hitler.”
New CIA Declassified Documents Expose Nazi War Criminals - Ukraine's Stepan Bandera is on the List - Communal News

That  knocks down one of the main stones  of Ukrainian platform: everybody who hates Russia is a patriot and if he kills Russians he's a hero. New president has not (and has not even tried to) change that. Now it sounds like he will have to.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Quantity of regulations means a lot less than their quality. Transparency is the most important factor (which is impossible in our corrupt country) which you don’t seem to care much about and ready to invite even more corruption.
> 
> 
> 
> Quantity, quality of regulations. What a crap. I think that even your class mates will understand that open market with little influence from state officials
> should lead to lowering corruption. Because if you don't need their 'services' the why to bribe them?
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> foreign country VP Biden was interfering in Ukrainian internal affairs by blackmailing Poroshenko with firing Shokin who was prosecuting his son’s suspicious activities in Ukraine. Biden admitting it himself. Not a crime from your point of view?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I associate Shokin with the case of so called diamond prosecutors which he closed. Also, he did his best to prevent the creation of Special counter-corruption prosecutors office. So, I gladly said him good bye.
> 
> And what was the result of his investigation?
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Biden stole millions from your country (that’s just what became public) and never has been investigated in “independent” Ukraine which can’t even think about investigating her overseas bosses. Again you don’t care about investigation and the finding out the truth.
> BREAKING, Ukraine MP Says Hunter Biden Stole Millions From Ukrainian Citizens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As I said above Burisma is a private company and it is a right of the owner to hire everyone he wants and pay everything he wants. If Burisma used state money and spent them illegally, than this should be investigated.
> 
> Derkach as a member of the parliament can send an official inquiry to General Prosecutor's office about this matter. Have he done that?
> 
> Btw, your links refute your previous claims. It is said there that Yanukovich managed to laundry more that 7 billion dollars through an investment fund. But some pages ago you stated that there is no evidence of Yanukovich's corruption. And you want to be seriously taken?
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Poroshenko was also in Yanukovich administration. Big problem of Ukraine is that almost all Ukrainian politicians have been political prostitutes
> 
> Poroshenko saw the Orange parties swept from power in 2010. Poroshenko resumed his affiliation with the Party of Regions in 2012, when he became minister of trade in the cabinet of Pres. Viktor Yanukovych.
> Petro Poroshenko | Facts & Biography
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Poroshenko is a member of the old system as well as Yanukovich, Kuchma and other former high ranked officials are. And I wrote about this here not once.
> 
> The main achievement of Poroshenko is that he thwarted attempts to drag Ukraine back to Russia's orbit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1. Dude, either you  have no experience in a real world in buying/selling property you just  want to join those crooks who keep robbing our country. Biden&son were just two of many.
> 
> 2. To say that poroshenko tried "to drag Ukraine back to Russia's orbit" is just insane. He was successfully dragging us to Washington's orbit, technically, turning us into a their colony. And starting the war with Donbass blaming Russia for that must have been "dragging Ukraine back to Russia's orbit"  too according to your logic?
> 
> 
> How about Kolomoysky, the boss of our current president, which system he belongs: old or new? And what's "new system" if not the same old system with new faces?
> 
> BTW, interesting event has happened a couple of days ago:
> The CIA *declassified documents* under the law that requires the exposing of Nazi war criminals.
> 
> *In the document*, American intelligence officials describe Bandera as a “fascist” and “agent of Hitler.”
> New CIA Declassified Documents Expose Nazi War Criminals - Ukraine's Stepan Bandera is on the List - Communal News
> 
> That  knocks down one of the main stones  of Ukrainian platform: everybody who hates Russia is a patriot and if he kills Russians he's a hero. New president has not (and has not even tried to) change that. Now it sounds like he will have to.
Click to expand...


Read once again what I wrote about Poroshenko. 

Yes, previously I thought that Zelensky is under influence of Kolomoisky. Now I tend to think that this influence may be exaggerated. The solving of issue with Privatbank will show whether it is true or not.


----------



## ph3iron

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ph3iron said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect our zero college patriot didn't know adolf hated commies and socialists.
> That why he inserted "national" into his socialist perty.
> And lost the war by attacking Russia in the winter.
> Ah well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *adolf hated commies and socialists.*
> 
> Yup, big government fascists hate big government commies.
> Stalinists hated Trotskyists hated Mensheviks etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Trolling again, comrade?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If that's what you call mocking Russian idiocy......sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> with demonstrating your idiocy? Be my guest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Poor Commies.
Click to expand...

Sucking off your commie SS Medicare VA benefits I assume?


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Btw, your links refute your previous claims. It is said there that Yanukovich managed to laundry more that 7 billion dollars through an investment fund. But some pages ago you stated that there is no evidence of Yanukovich's corruption.


When did I say Yanukovich was not corrupt? All Ukrainian presidents were thieves.



ESay said:


> Read once again what I wrote about Poroshenko.


And I already replied to what you had written about Poroshenko. Read it once again.



ESay said:


> Yes, previously I thought that Zelensky is under influence of Kolomoisky. Now I tend to think that this influence may be exaggerated. The solving of issue with Privatbank will show whether it is true or not.


Does it matter who is behind Zelensky, Kolomoysky or somebody else, he (or they) are obviously  from the "old system". 

Zelensky was lucky to get vast majority in Rada, he could change many things in Ukraine with that kind of support. But what has he done except for "puzzling the Jews on Holocaust" the other day? 
Mark Ames:
It’s a crime in Ukraine today to criticize Ukraine’s WW2 Nazi collaborators, rehabilitated as official heroes post-Maidan. So Ukraine’s first Jewish president, fearful of angering powerful neofascists back home, skulked away from Israel Holocaust event. 
Mark Ames on Twitter

Did he cancel the law about national heroes of Ukraine like Bandera, Shushkevich and other collaborators who were fighting on Hitler's side? Did he try to stop Nazis torch lights marches in our cities? Did he start any investigations of crooked previous Rada members (even "investigation" of Poroshenko is a joke)? Did he order to investigate any crimes like Busina assassination, Odessa massacre, shooting both sides (protesters and Berkut) on Maidan in Kiev and lots of others. No.
And probably he never will. I don't have any illusions about Zelensky, his election will only prolong the agony, it usually takes time for the illusions to fade away.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

ph3iron said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> *adolf hated commies and socialists.*
> 
> Yup, big government fascists hate big government commies.
> Stalinists hated Trotskyists hated Mensheviks etc.
> 
> 
> 
> Trolling again, comrade?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If that's what you call mocking Russian idiocy......sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> with demonstrating your idiocy? Be my guest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Poor Commies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sucking off your commie SS Medicare VA benefits I assume?
Click to expand...


Wrong.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> When did I say Yanukovich was not corrupt? All Ukrainian presidents were thieves.


You said there wasnt evidence still about Yanukovich's corruption. 



Stratford57 said:


> And I already replied to what you had written about Poroshenko. Read it once again.


Your answer is bullshit. I never said that Poroshenko tried to drag Ukraine back to Russia. I said quite the opposite - that he prevented such attempts. 

-----------

You must be totally retarded if you think it is possible to crush the old system in virtually six month's term. It will take years.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> You said there wasnt evidence still about Yanukovich's corruption.


Where did I say that?



ESay said:


> Your answer is bullshit. I never said that Poroshenko tried to drag Ukraine back to Russia. I said quite the opposite - that he prevented such attempts.


I misunderstood that, sorry. And that was the biggest mistake and a crime which placed Ukraine into a huge debt, chaos, misery, a lot more corruption and crimes, made Crimea leave for good and made it possible to start shelling civilians in Donbass and on the top of everything to blame Russia for all above. Meanwhile with corrupt Yanukovich the country was doing incomparably better and was going up, there were no gay parades and Nazis marches in our streets . Now it’s going down regardless what the politicians are telling us. The Ukrainian people’s fact check is looking into their wallets. If you are pleased with your income you must be either a crook (or Nazi), or working for crooks or working abroad or just belong to a very low percentage of Ukrainians who found some foreigners/Embassies  to work for.

Let’s now compare Ukraine (sinking in international debts) to Russia (under the international sanctions). You would think that it would make sense that Ukraine with all that international money should be doing a lot better than Russia? NO, not even close.

*US News 2019  Rating:
*United States* *#1* in *International Influence Rankings*
*Russia**#2* in *International Influence Rankings*
*Ukraine* *#40* in *International Influence Rankings*
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/best-international-influence

World bank, “Doing business” rating 2019
Russia named 28 (comparing to 120 in 2012 and in spite of numerous sanctions) between Austria and Japan
Ukraine named 71 (behind Vietnam and in spite of billions of dollars coming from IMF)
https://www.worldbank.org/content/d...Reports/English/DB2019-report_web-version.pdf

Russia has over $433 billion in foreign currency reserves and $107.9 million worth of gold. It is the largest reserves among the big emerging markets after China, which has more than $3 trillion.
For Wall Street, Russia Has Become ‘Bulletproof’

Russia Adds Another Huge Pile of Gold To its Growing Stack In February

Russia payed off the debts of all Soviet republics (including Ukraine) and almost payed off her own external debt.

And so on and on, dogs are barking but Russian caravan is moving ahead. I’ve been to Russia last summer, looked at everything with my own eyes  and talked to many foreigners whose Media at home was lying about Russia (that’s what they told me) and who praised Putin’s job and pace of improving the country.  What are Ukraine’s achievements besides destroying/dividing the country and glorification of all kinds of traitors and those who had been killing civilians both during WW2 and after 2014?



ESay said:


> You must be totally retarded if you think it is possible to crush the old system in virtually six month's term. It will take years.


Illusions and more illusions. How long does it take to make the orders to start doing something?


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> You said there wasnt evidence still about Yanukovich's corruption.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did I say that?
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your answer is bullshit. I never said that Poroshenko tried to drag Ukraine back to Russia. I said quite the opposite - that he prevented such attempts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I misunderstood that, sorry. And that was the biggest mistake and a crime which placed Ukraine into a huge debt, chaos, misery, a lot more corruption and crimes, made Crimea leave for good and made it possible to start shelling civilians in Donbass and on the top of everything to blame Russia for all above. Meanwhile with corrupt Yanukovich the country was doing incomparably better and was going up, there were no gay parades and Nazis marches in our streets . Now it’s going down regardless what the politicians are telling us. The Ukrainian people’s fact check is looking into their wallets. If you are pleased with your income you must be either a crook (or Nazi), or working for crooks or working abroad or just belong to a very low percentage of Ukrainians who found some foreigners/Embassies  to work for.
> 
> Let’s now compare Ukraine (sinking in international debts) to Russia (under the international sanctions). You would think that it would make sense that Ukraine with all that international money should be doing a lot better than Russia? NO, not even close.
> 
> *US News 2019  Rating:
> *United States* *#1* in *International Influence Rankings*
> *Russia**#2* in *International Influence Rankings*
> *Ukraine* *#40* in *International Influence Rankings*
> https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/best-international-influence
> 
> World bank, “Doing business” rating 2019
> Russia named 28 (comparing to 120 in 2012 and in spite of numerous sanctions) between Austria and Japan
> Ukraine named 71 (behind Vietnam and in spite of billions of dollars coming from IMF)
> https://www.worldbank.org/content/d...Reports/English/DB2019-report_web-version.pdf
> 
> Russia has over $433 billion in foreign currency reserves and $107.9 million worth of gold. It is the largest reserves among the big emerging markets after China, which has more than $3 trillion.
> For Wall Street, Russia Has Become ‘Bulletproof’
> 
> Russia Adds Another Huge Pile of Gold To its Growing Stack In February
> 
> Russia payed off the debts of all Soviet republics (including Ukraine) and almost payed off her own external debt.
> 
> And so on and on, dogs are barking but Russian caravan is moving ahead. I’ve been to Russia last summer, looked at everything with my own eyes  and talked to many foreigners whose Media at home was lying about Russia (that’s what they told me) and who praised Putin’s job and pace of improving the country.  What are Ukraine’s achievements besides destroying/dividing the country and glorification of all kinds of traitors and those who had been killing civilians both during WW2 and after 2014?
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> You must be totally retarded if you think it is possible to crush the old system in virtually six month's term. It will take years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Illusions and more illusions. How long does it take to make the orders to start doing something?
Click to expand...

You didn't? Okay, I take my words back. 

Great, move there and be happy. In any case, you don't belong to this state. 

What do you do for a living? Do you work somewhere?


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Great, move there and be happy. In any case, you don't belong to this state.


That's why Crimea moved there (like you said) and is happy now. That's why Donbass wanted to move and Ukrainian army started shelling it in response. That's why millions have already left Ukraine and millions would love to. In any case you are not the one whose advise I need about where to move and when. 



ESay said:


> What do you do for a living? Do you work somewhere?


And why does it matter?  I'm not gonna answer personal questions but if you don't mind answering them (certainly, you don't mind asking them) you are welcome to tell us that information about yourself. At least I could learn how to live in Ukraine and be pleased with your income honestly. (I'm sure you are a very honest person since you've been preaching me about honesty).


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great, move there and be happy. In any case, you don't belong to this state.
> 
> 
> 
> That's why Crimea moved there (like you said) and is happy now. That's why Donbass wanted to move and Ukrainian army started shelling it in response. That's why millions have already left Ukraine and millions would love to. In any case you are not the one whose advise I need about where to move and when.
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you do for a living? Do you work somewhere?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And why does it matter?  I'm not gonna answer personal questions but if you don't mind answering them (certainly, you don't mind asking them) you are welcome to tell us that information about yourself. At least I could learn how to live in Ukraine and be pleased with your income honestly. (I'm sure you are a very honest person since you've been preaching me about honesty).
Click to expand...


I couldn't care less about you, so it wasn't actually an advise. You can sit on your bottom and constantly whine and bitch about how things are bad around you all you want. It is your philosophy of life it seems - whine and wait when someone will do something for you. Typical sovok.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great, move there and be happy. In any case, you don't belong to this state.
> 
> 
> 
> That's why Crimea moved there (like you said) and is happy now. That's why Donbass wanted to move and Ukrainian army started shelling it in response. That's why millions have already left Ukraine and millions would love to. In any case you are not the one whose advise I need about where to move and when.
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you do for a living? Do you work somewhere?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And why does it matter?  I'm not gonna answer personal questions but if you don't mind answering them (certainly, you don't mind asking them) you are welcome to tell us that information about yourself. At least I could learn how to live in Ukraine and be pleased with your income honestly. (I'm sure you are a very honest person since you've been preaching me about honesty).
Click to expand...


*That's why millions have already left Ukraine and millions would love to. *

Millions more left the Soviet Union, eh comrade?


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great, move there and be happy. In any case, you don't belong to this state.
> 
> 
> 
> That's why Crimea moved there (like you said) and is happy now. That's why Donbass wanted to move and Ukrainian army started shelling it in response. That's why millions have already left Ukraine and millions would love to. In any case you are not the one whose advise I need about where to move and when.
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you do for a living? Do you work somewhere?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And why does it matter?  I'm not gonna answer personal questions but if you don't mind answering them (certainly, you don't mind asking them) you are welcome to tell us that information about yourself. At least I could learn how to live in Ukraine and be pleased with your income honestly. (I'm sure you are a very honest person since you've been preaching me about honesty).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I couldn't care less about you, so it wasn't actually an advise. You can sit on your bottom and constantly whine and bitch about how things are bad around you all you want. It is your philosophy of life it seems - whine and wait when someone will do something for you. Typical sovok.
Click to expand...

Any info about how to work in Ukraine and to be pleased with your income from you, honest Ukrainian?


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great, move there and be happy. In any case, you don't belong to this state.
> 
> 
> 
> That's why Crimea moved there (like you said) and is happy now. That's why Donbass wanted to move and Ukrainian army started shelling it in response. That's why millions have already left Ukraine and millions would love to. In any case you are not the one whose advise I need about where to move and when.
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you do for a living? Do you work somewhere?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And why does it matter?  I'm not gonna answer personal questions but if you don't mind answering them (certainly, you don't mind asking them) you are welcome to tell us that information about yourself. At least I could learn how to live in Ukraine and be pleased with your income honestly. (I'm sure you are a very honest person since you've been preaching me about honesty).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I couldn't care less about you, so it wasn't actually an advise. You can sit on your bottom and constantly whine and bitch about how things are bad around you all you want. It is your philosophy of life it seems - whine and wait when someone will do something for you. Typical sovok.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Any info about how to work in Ukraine and to be pleased with your income from you, honest Ukrainian?
Click to expand...

What for? You won't be pleased in any case. Whining is your style.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> What for? You won't be pleased in any case. Whining is your style.


I can say same thing about you. 

You asked me first about my occupation, I thought I could learn something from such an honest person like you. Oh, well....


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> What for? You won't be pleased in any case. Whining is your style.
> 
> 
> 
> I can say same thing about you.
> 
> You asked me first about my occupation, I thought I could learn something from such an honest person like you. Oh, well....
Click to expand...

You refused to answer my question about that. Okay, it is your choice. But after that, you want me to answer the same question from you. You are weird, aren't you?


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> What for? You won't be pleased in any case. Whining is your style.
> 
> 
> 
> I can say same thing about you.
> 
> You asked me first about my occupation, I thought I could learn something from such an honest person like you. Oh, well....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You refused to answer my question about that. Okay, it is your choice. But after that, you want me to answer the same question from you. You are weird, aren't you?
Click to expand...

Hey, dude, I just thought if somebody asks personal questions he's ready to answer personal questions. If you find it weird, I'm sorry. That only confirms my observations about who's paid well in Ukraine which I listed above.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> What for? You won't be pleased in any case. Whining is your style.
> 
> 
> 
> I can say same thing about you.
> 
> You asked me first about my occupation, I thought I could learn something from such an honest person like you. Oh, well....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You refused to answer my question about that. Okay, it is your choice. But after that, you want me to answer the same question from you. You are weird, aren't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey, dude, I just thought if somebody asks personal questions he's ready to answer personal questions. If you find it weird, I'm sorry. That only confirms my observations about who's paid well in Ukraine which I listed above.
Click to expand...

Honey, it is not the first time when I have to explain simple things to you. Okay. 

A conversation is a two way road. And if your 'partner' asks something, you are supposed to give an answer. Of course, you can refuse to give the answer because of some reason. 

But if you refuse to answer some questions and after that you demand an answer from me on the same questions, then you looks silly. But, okay, I understand that it is your usual normality.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> What for? You won't be pleased in any case. Whining is your style.
> 
> 
> 
> I can say same thing about you.
> 
> You asked me first about my occupation, I thought I could learn something from such an honest person like you. Oh, well....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You refused to answer my question about that. Okay, it is your choice. But after that, you want me to answer the same question from you. You are weird, aren't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey, dude, I just thought if somebody asks personal questions he's ready to answer personal questions. If you find it weird, I'm sorry. That only confirms my observations about who's paid well in Ukraine which I listed above.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Honey, it is not the first time when I have to explain simple things to you. Okay.
> 
> A conversation is a two way road. And if your 'partner' asks something, you are supposed to give an answer. Of course, you can refuse to give the answer because of some reason.
> 
> But if you refuse to answer some questions and after that you demand an answer from me on the same questions, then you looks silly. But, okay, I understand that it is your usual normality.
Click to expand...

Don't worry, nobody is gonna shake the answer out off you, you said enough, I made up my mind.

It looks like you, proud and honest Ukrainians, remember about a two way road when you need your way, otherwise you wouldn't support the overthrowing of our dully elected president, tearing Ukraine away from Russia, suppressing all the languages and make everybody speak only one Ukrainian language and so on and on. You knew millions of Ukraine residents wanted completely opposite, but that didn't make you think about "two way road".

Go preach about it to somebody else.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> What for? You won't be pleased in any case. Whining is your style.
> 
> 
> 
> I can say same thing about you.
> 
> You asked me first about my occupation, I thought I could learn something from such an honest person like you. Oh, well....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You refused to answer my question about that. Okay, it is your choice. But after that, you want me to answer the same question from you. You are weird, aren't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey, dude, I just thought if somebody asks personal questions he's ready to answer personal questions. If you find it weird, I'm sorry. That only confirms my observations about who's paid well in Ukraine which I listed above.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Honey, it is not the first time when I have to explain simple things to you. Okay.
> 
> A conversation is a two way road. And if your 'partner' asks something, you are supposed to give an answer. Of course, you can refuse to give the answer because of some reason.
> 
> But if you refuse to answer some questions and after that you demand an answer from me on the same questions, then you looks silly. But, okay, I understand that it is your usual normality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't worry, nobody is gonna shake the answer out off you, you said enough, I made up my mind.
> 
> It looks like you, proud and honest Ukrainians, remember about a two way road when you need your way, otherwise you wouldn't support the overthrowing of our dully elected president, tearing Ukraine away from Russia, suppressing all the languages and make everybody speak only one Ukrainian language and so on and on. You knew millions of Ukraine residents wanted completely opposite, but that didn't make you think about "two way road".
> 
> Go preach about it to somebody else.
Click to expand...

You are just a stupid child. 

The whole my life I have spoken Russian. And still speak Russian. Who makes me speak Ukrainian, fool? You are just a stinking piece of Russian propaganda.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can say same thing about you.
> 
> You asked me first about my occupation, I thought I could learn something from such an honest person like you. Oh, well....
> 
> 
> 
> You refused to answer my question about that. Okay, it is your choice. But after that, you want me to answer the same question from you. You are weird, aren't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey, dude, I just thought if somebody asks personal questions he's ready to answer personal questions. If you find it weird, I'm sorry. That only confirms my observations about who's paid well in Ukraine which I listed above.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Honey, it is not the first time when I have to explain simple things to you. Okay.
> 
> A conversation is a two way road. And if your 'partner' asks something, you are supposed to give an answer. Of course, you can refuse to give the answer because of some reason.
> 
> But if you refuse to answer some questions and after that you demand an answer from me on the same questions, then you looks silly. But, okay, I understand that it is your usual normality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't worry, nobody is gonna shake the answer out off you, you said enough, I made up my mind.
> 
> It looks like you, proud and honest Ukrainians, remember about a two way road when you need your way, otherwise you wouldn't support the overthrowing of our dully elected president, tearing Ukraine away from Russia, suppressing all the languages and make everybody speak only one Ukrainian language and so on and on. You knew millions of Ukraine residents wanted completely opposite, but that didn't make you think about "two way road".
> 
> Go preach about it to somebody else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just a stupid child.
> 
> The whole my life I have spoken Russian. And still speak Russian. Who makes me speak Ukrainian, fool? You are just a stinking piece of Russian propaganda.
Click to expand...

Are you good in anything else except for preaching and spinning? You know very well what I'm talking about: after the coup Ukrainian language is the only official language in 35 million Ukraine consisting from many nationalities. Even "occupied" Crimea with about 3 million of population has 3 official languages after reuniting with Russia.

Ukraine’s proposed legislative amendments, including the acts on education, nationality and language alike”, Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade of Hungary Péter Szijjártó  said.
“We continue to regard as shameful and outrageous the new Education Act, which drastically restricts the access of minorities, including the Hungarian national minority, to native language teaching in a manner that makes that practically impossible from the age of 10 and is incompatible with European values and regulations”, he stressed.
Our duty is to protect the Hungarian people

BUDAPEST, Hungary — Ukraine has “stabbed Hungary in the back” with a new education law that “drastically”* limits the rights of ethnic minorities to study in their mother tongue,* Hungary’s foreign minister said
*Hungary says Ukraine’s new school law hurts minority rights*
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...555caaeb8dc_story.html?utm_term=.e2848ba3b10e


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> You refused to answer my question about that. Okay, it is your choice. But after that, you want me to answer the same question from you. You are weird, aren't you?
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, dude, I just thought if somebody asks personal questions he's ready to answer personal questions. If you find it weird, I'm sorry. That only confirms my observations about who's paid well in Ukraine which I listed above.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Honey, it is not the first time when I have to explain simple things to you. Okay.
> 
> A conversation is a two way road. And if your 'partner' asks something, you are supposed to give an answer. Of course, you can refuse to give the answer because of some reason.
> 
> But if you refuse to answer some questions and after that you demand an answer from me on the same questions, then you looks silly. But, okay, I understand that it is your usual normality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't worry, nobody is gonna shake the answer out off you, you said enough, I made up my mind.
> 
> It looks like you, proud and honest Ukrainians, remember about a two way road when you need your way, otherwise you wouldn't support the overthrowing of our dully elected president, tearing Ukraine away from Russia, suppressing all the languages and make everybody speak only one Ukrainian language and so on and on. You knew millions of Ukraine residents wanted completely opposite, but that didn't make you think about "two way road".
> 
> Go preach about it to somebody else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just a stupid child.
> 
> The whole my life I have spoken Russian. And still speak Russian. Who makes me speak Ukrainian, fool? You are just a stinking piece of Russian propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you good in anything else except for preaching and spinning? You know very well what I'm talking about: after the coup Ukrainian language is the only official language in 35 million Ukraine consisting from many nationalities.
> 
> Ukraine’s proposed legislative amendments, including the acts on education, nationality and language alike”, Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade of Hungary Péter Szijjártó  said.
> “We continue to regard as shameful and outrageous the new Education Act, which drastically restricts the access of minorities, including the Hungarian national minority, to native language teaching in a manner that makes that practically impossible from the age of 10 and is incompatible with European values and regulations”, he stressed.
> Our duty is to protect the Hungarian people
> 
> BUDAPEST, Hungary — Ukraine has “stabbed Hungary in the back” with a new education law that “drastically”* limits the rights of ethnic minorities to study in their mother tongue,* Hungary’s foreign minister said
> *Hungary says Ukraine’s new school law hurts minority rights*
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...555caaeb8dc_story.html?utm_term=.e2848ba3b10e
Click to expand...

The Hungarian minister can go fuck himself. 

The Ukrainian language since 1991 is the only one official language of Ukraine, you ignorant piece. But only now the authorities begin realizing that on practice. 

Despite the fact I speak Russian, I have no hostility to the Ukrainian and I understand the policy. Every citizen of Ukraine should be able to understand, speak and write on this language. No matter you are Russian, Hungarian and someone else.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, dude, I just thought if somebody asks personal questions he's ready to answer personal questions. If you find it weird, I'm sorry. That only confirms my observations about who's paid well in Ukraine which I listed above.
> 
> 
> 
> Honey, it is not the first time when I have to explain simple things to you. Okay.
> 
> A conversation is a two way road. And if your 'partner' asks something, you are supposed to give an answer. Of course, you can refuse to give the answer because of some reason.
> 
> But if you refuse to answer some questions and after that you demand an answer from me on the same questions, then you looks silly. But, okay, I understand that it is your usual normality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't worry, nobody is gonna shake the answer out off you, you said enough, I made up my mind.
> 
> It looks like you, proud and honest Ukrainians, remember about a two way road when you need your way, otherwise you wouldn't support the overthrowing of our dully elected president, tearing Ukraine away from Russia, suppressing all the languages and make everybody speak only one Ukrainian language and so on and on. You knew millions of Ukraine residents wanted completely opposite, but that didn't make you think about "two way road".
> 
> Go preach about it to somebody else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just a stupid child.
> 
> The whole my life I have spoken Russian. And still speak Russian. Who makes me speak Ukrainian, fool? You are just a stinking piece of Russian propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you good in anything else except for preaching and spinning? You know very well what I'm talking about: after the coup Ukrainian language is the only official language in 35 million Ukraine consisting from many nationalities.
> 
> Ukraine’s proposed legislative amendments, including the acts on education, nationality and language alike”, Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade of Hungary Péter Szijjártó  said.
> “We continue to regard as shameful and outrageous the new Education Act, which drastically restricts the access of minorities, including the Hungarian national minority, to native language teaching in a manner that makes that practically impossible from the age of 10 and is incompatible with European values and regulations”, he stressed.
> Our duty is to protect the Hungarian people
> 
> BUDAPEST, Hungary — Ukraine has “stabbed Hungary in the back” with a new education law that “drastically”* limits the rights of ethnic minorities to study in their mother tongue,* Hungary’s foreign minister said
> *Hungary says Ukraine’s new school law hurts minority rights*
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...555caaeb8dc_story.html?utm_term=.e2848ba3b10e
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Hungarian minister can go fuck himself.
> 
> The Ukrainian language since 1991 is the only one official language of Ukraine, you ignorant piece. But only now the authorities begin realizing that on practice.
> 
> Despite the fact I speak Russian, I have no hostility to the Ukrainian and I understand the policy. Every citizen of Ukraine should be able to understand, speak and write on this language. No matter you are Russian, Hungarian and someone else.
Click to expand...

You can play fool as much as you want. Besides, originally, we were talking about your "two way road" and *the language is only one of many violations of "two way road"* for millions of Ukrainians. How about the others I've mentioned above?

Now a little lesson for you about something you pretend not to know.

On August 8, 2012 Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych signed a new law, “On the principles of language politics,” that allows cities and regions to pass legislation that would give Russian (or any other minority tongue) the status of an official language if 10 percent or more of the population of that region speaks it as a native tongue.

After much debate, the official status of the Ukrainian language was enshrined in Ukraine’s 1996 constitution.
What Ukraine’s New Language Law Means for National Unity
----
Ukraine’s parliament, the Verkhovna Rada, passed a new Law on Education on September 5. Article 7 of the legislation mandates the use of Ukrainian as the language of instruction in all state-funded secondary schools beginning in 2020. The rule stands to affect approximately 400,000 students, or 10 percent of the student population, who are educated in Russian, Polish, Hungarian, Bulgarian, Romanian, and Slovak schools across the country.

The foreign ministers of Hungary, Bulgaria, Greece, and Romania jointly signed a letter to the Council of Europe and the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) calling for the protection of minority linguistic rights in Ukraine.
Ukraine’s Education Law May Needlessly Harm European Aspirations

"In particular, the new law entails a heavy reduction in the rights previously recognized to 'national minorities' concerning their own language of education,"
PACE Criticizes Ukraine Over New Law On Education

You'll tell all of those ^ to F***  themselves or it will make a lot more sense if you'll go ahead and follow your own advice, our honest and fair Ukrainian friend?


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Honey, it is not the first time when I have to explain simple things to you. Okay.
> 
> A conversation is a two way road. And if your 'partner' asks something, you are supposed to give an answer. Of course, you can refuse to give the answer because of some reason.
> 
> But if you refuse to answer some questions and after that you demand an answer from me on the same questions, then you looks silly. But, okay, I understand that it is your usual normality.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry, nobody is gonna shake the answer out off you, you said enough, I made up my mind.
> 
> It looks like you, proud and honest Ukrainians, remember about a two way road when you need your way, otherwise you wouldn't support the overthrowing of our dully elected president, tearing Ukraine away from Russia, suppressing all the languages and make everybody speak only one Ukrainian language and so on and on. You knew millions of Ukraine residents wanted completely opposite, but that didn't make you think about "two way road".
> 
> Go preach about it to somebody else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just a stupid child.
> 
> The whole my life I have spoken Russian. And still speak Russian. Who makes me speak Ukrainian, fool? You are just a stinking piece of Russian propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you good in anything else except for preaching and spinning? You know very well what I'm talking about: after the coup Ukrainian language is the only official language in 35 million Ukraine consisting from many nationalities.
> 
> Ukraine’s proposed legislative amendments, including the acts on education, nationality and language alike”, Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade of Hungary Péter Szijjártó  said.
> “We continue to regard as shameful and outrageous the new Education Act, which drastically restricts the access of minorities, including the Hungarian national minority, to native language teaching in a manner that makes that practically impossible from the age of 10 and is incompatible with European values and regulations”, he stressed.
> Our duty is to protect the Hungarian people
> 
> BUDAPEST, Hungary — Ukraine has “stabbed Hungary in the back” with a new education law that “drastically”* limits the rights of ethnic minorities to study in their mother tongue,* Hungary’s foreign minister said
> *Hungary says Ukraine’s new school law hurts minority rights*
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...555caaeb8dc_story.html?utm_term=.e2848ba3b10e
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Hungarian minister can go fuck himself.
> 
> The Ukrainian language since 1991 is the only one official language of Ukraine, you ignorant piece. But only now the authorities begin realizing that on practice.
> 
> Despite the fact I speak Russian, I have no hostility to the Ukrainian and I understand the policy. Every citizen of Ukraine should be able to understand, speak and write on this language. No matter you are Russian, Hungarian and someone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can play fool as much as you want. Besides, originally, we were talking about your "two way road" and *the language is only one of many violations of "two way road"* for millions of Ukrainians. How about the others I've mentioned above?
> 
> Now a little lesson for you about something you pretend not to know.
> 
> On August 8, 2012 Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych signed a new law, “On the principles of language politics,” that allows cities and regions to pass legislation that would give Russian (or any other minority tongue) the status of an official language if 10 percent or more of the population of that region speaks it as a native tongue.
> 
> After much debate, the official status of the Ukrainian language was enshrined in Ukraine’s 1996 constitution.
> What Ukraine’s New Language Law Means for National Unity
> ----
> Ukraine’s parliament, the Verkhovna Rada, passed a new Law on Education on September 5. Article 7 of the legislation mandates the use of Ukrainian as the language of instruction in all state-funded secondary schools beginning in 2020. The rule stands to affect approximately 400,000 students, or 10 percent of the student population, who are educated in Russian, Polish, Hungarian, Bulgarian, Romanian, and Slovak schools across the country.
> 
> The foreign ministers of Hungary, Bulgaria, Greece, and Romania jointly signed a letter to the Council of Europe and the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) calling for the protection of minority linguistic rights in Ukraine.
> Ukraine’s Education Law May Needlessly Harm European Aspirations
> 
> "In particular, the new law entails a heavy reduction in the rights previously recognized to 'national minorities' concerning their own language of education,"
> PACE Criticizes Ukraine Over New Law On Education
> 
> You'll tell all of those ^ to F***  themselves or it will make a lot more sense if you'll go and F*** yourself, our honest and fair Ukrainian friend?
Click to expand...

That law introduced such term as a regional language. The official language of Ukraine has been only one language - Ukrainian. 

That law was abolished. Get used to it. 

It is that PACE which passed a number of resolutions concerning Crimea and Donbas, demanding some things from Russia and after that restoring the right of Russian delegation in full without any conditions? Sure, it can do what I advised the Hungarian minister. 

How many Ukrainian schools in Crimea?


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry, nobody is gonna shake the answer out off you, you said enough, I made up my mind.
> 
> It looks like you, proud and honest Ukrainians, remember about a two way road when you need your way, otherwise you wouldn't support the overthrowing of our dully elected president, tearing Ukraine away from Russia, suppressing all the languages and make everybody speak only one Ukrainian language and so on and on. You knew millions of Ukraine residents wanted completely opposite, but that didn't make you think about "two way road".
> 
> Go preach about it to somebody else.
> 
> 
> 
> You are just a stupid child.
> 
> The whole my life I have spoken Russian. And still speak Russian. Who makes me speak Ukrainian, fool? You are just a stinking piece of Russian propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you good in anything else except for preaching and spinning? You know very well what I'm talking about: after the coup Ukrainian language is the only official language in 35 million Ukraine consisting from many nationalities.
> 
> Ukraine’s proposed legislative amendments, including the acts on education, nationality and language alike”, Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade of Hungary Péter Szijjártó  said.
> “We continue to regard as shameful and outrageous the new Education Act, which drastically restricts the access of minorities, including the Hungarian national minority, to native language teaching in a manner that makes that practically impossible from the age of 10 and is incompatible with European values and regulations”, he stressed.
> Our duty is to protect the Hungarian people
> 
> BUDAPEST, Hungary — Ukraine has “stabbed Hungary in the back” with a new education law that “drastically”* limits the rights of ethnic minorities to study in their mother tongue,* Hungary’s foreign minister said
> *Hungary says Ukraine’s new school law hurts minority rights*
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...555caaeb8dc_story.html?utm_term=.e2848ba3b10e
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Hungarian minister can go fuck himself.
> 
> The Ukrainian language since 1991 is the only one official language of Ukraine, you ignorant piece. But only now the authorities begin realizing that on practice.
> 
> Despite the fact I speak Russian, I have no hostility to the Ukrainian and I understand the policy. Every citizen of Ukraine should be able to understand, speak and write on this language. No matter you are Russian, Hungarian and someone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can play fool as much as you want. Besides, originally, we were talking about your "two way road" and *the language is only one of many violations of "two way road"* for millions of Ukrainians. How about the others I've mentioned above?
> 
> Now a little lesson for you about something you pretend not to know.
> 
> On August 8, 2012 Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych signed a new law, “On the principles of language politics,” that allows cities and regions to pass legislation that would give Russian (or any other minority tongue) the status of an official language if 10 percent or more of the population of that region speaks it as a native tongue.
> 
> After much debate, the official status of the Ukrainian language was enshrined in Ukraine’s 1996 constitution.
> What Ukraine’s New Language Law Means for National Unity
> ----
> Ukraine’s parliament, the Verkhovna Rada, passed a new Law on Education on September 5. Article 7 of the legislation mandates the use of Ukrainian as the language of instruction in all state-funded secondary schools beginning in 2020. The rule stands to affect approximately 400,000 students, or 10 percent of the student population, who are educated in Russian, Polish, Hungarian, Bulgarian, Romanian, and Slovak schools across the country.
> 
> The foreign ministers of Hungary, Bulgaria, Greece, and Romania jointly signed a letter to the Council of Europe and the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) calling for the protection of minority linguistic rights in Ukraine.
> Ukraine’s Education Law May Needlessly Harm European Aspirations
> 
> "In particular, the new law entails a heavy reduction in the rights previously recognized to 'national minorities' concerning their own language of education,"
> PACE Criticizes Ukraine Over New Law On Education
> 
> You'll tell all of those ^ to F***  themselves or it will make a lot more sense if you'll go and F*** yourself, our honest and fair Ukrainian friend?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That law introduced such term as a regional language. The official language of Ukraine has been only one language - Ukrainian.
> 
> That law was abolished. Get used to it.
> 
> It is that PACE which passed a number of resolutions concerning Crimea and Donbas, demanding some things from Russia and after that restoring the right of Russian delegation in full without any conditions? Sure, it can do what I advised the Hungarian minister.
> 
> How many Ukrainian schools in Crimea?
Click to expand...

Will you ever be back to your "two way road" or continue to spin the details?

How many in Crimea need Ukrainian language? At least we know: if somebody needs it it's official there.  Don't blame the mirror if your face is ugly.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are just a stupid child.
> 
> The whole my life I have spoken Russian. And still speak Russian. Who makes me speak Ukrainian, fool? You are just a stinking piece of Russian propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you good in anything else except for preaching and spinning? You know very well what I'm talking about: after the coup Ukrainian language is the only official language in 35 million Ukraine consisting from many nationalities.
> 
> Ukraine’s proposed legislative amendments, including the acts on education, nationality and language alike”, Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade of Hungary Péter Szijjártó  said.
> “We continue to regard as shameful and outrageous the new Education Act, which drastically restricts the access of minorities, including the Hungarian national minority, to native language teaching in a manner that makes that practically impossible from the age of 10 and is incompatible with European values and regulations”, he stressed.
> Our duty is to protect the Hungarian people
> 
> BUDAPEST, Hungary — Ukraine has “stabbed Hungary in the back” with a new education law that “drastically”* limits the rights of ethnic minorities to study in their mother tongue,* Hungary’s foreign minister said
> *Hungary says Ukraine’s new school law hurts minority rights*
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...555caaeb8dc_story.html?utm_term=.e2848ba3b10e
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Hungarian minister can go fuck himself.
> 
> The Ukrainian language since 1991 is the only one official language of Ukraine, you ignorant piece. But only now the authorities begin realizing that on practice.
> 
> Despite the fact I speak Russian, I have no hostility to the Ukrainian and I understand the policy. Every citizen of Ukraine should be able to understand, speak and write on this language. No matter you are Russian, Hungarian and someone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can play fool as much as you want. Besides, originally, we were talking about your "two way road" and *the language is only one of many violations of "two way road"* for millions of Ukrainians. How about the others I've mentioned above?
> 
> Now a little lesson for you about something you pretend not to know.
> 
> On August 8, 2012 Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych signed a new law, “On the principles of language politics,” that allows cities and regions to pass legislation that would give Russian (or any other minority tongue) the status of an official language if 10 percent or more of the population of that region speaks it as a native tongue.
> 
> After much debate, the official status of the Ukrainian language was enshrined in Ukraine’s 1996 constitution.
> What Ukraine’s New Language Law Means for National Unity
> ----
> Ukraine’s parliament, the Verkhovna Rada, passed a new Law on Education on September 5. Article 7 of the legislation mandates the use of Ukrainian as the language of instruction in all state-funded secondary schools beginning in 2020. The rule stands to affect approximately 400,000 students, or 10 percent of the student population, who are educated in Russian, Polish, Hungarian, Bulgarian, Romanian, and Slovak schools across the country.
> 
> The foreign ministers of Hungary, Bulgaria, Greece, and Romania jointly signed a letter to the Council of Europe and the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) calling for the protection of minority linguistic rights in Ukraine.
> Ukraine’s Education Law May Needlessly Harm European Aspirations
> 
> "In particular, the new law entails a heavy reduction in the rights previously recognized to 'national minorities' concerning their own language of education,"
> PACE Criticizes Ukraine Over New Law On Education
> 
> You'll tell all of those ^ to F***  themselves or it will make a lot more sense if you'll go and F*** yourself, our honest and fair Ukrainian friend?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That law introduced such term as a regional language. The official language of Ukraine has been only one language - Ukrainian.
> 
> That law was abolished. Get used to it.
> 
> It is that PACE which passed a number of resolutions concerning Crimea and Donbas, demanding some things from Russia and after that restoring the right of Russian delegation in full without any conditions? Sure, it can do what I advised the Hungarian minister.
> 
> How many Ukrainian schools in Crimea?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Will you ever be back to your "two way road" or continue to spin the details?
> 
> How many in Crimea need Ukrainian language? At least we know: if somebody needs it it's official there.  Don't blame the mirror if your face is ugly.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it is so cute - to boast about an official status, while having closed all (except of one in Simferopol IIRC) Ukrainian schools there. 

What details I spin?


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you good in anything else except for preaching and spinning? You know very well what I'm talking about: after the coup Ukrainian language is the only official language in 35 million Ukraine consisting from many nationalities.
> 
> Ukraine’s proposed legislative amendments, including the acts on education, nationality and language alike”, Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade of Hungary Péter Szijjártó  said.
> “We continue to regard as shameful and outrageous the new Education Act, which drastically restricts the access of minorities, including the Hungarian national minority, to native language teaching in a manner that makes that practically impossible from the age of 10 and is incompatible with European values and regulations”, he stressed.
> Our duty is to protect the Hungarian people
> 
> BUDAPEST, Hungary — Ukraine has “stabbed Hungary in the back” with a new education law that “drastically”* limits the rights of ethnic minorities to study in their mother tongue,* Hungary’s foreign minister said
> *Hungary says Ukraine’s new school law hurts minority rights*
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...555caaeb8dc_story.html?utm_term=.e2848ba3b10e
> 
> 
> 
> The Hungarian minister can go fuck himself.
> 
> The Ukrainian language since 1991 is the only one official language of Ukraine, you ignorant piece. But only now the authorities begin realizing that on practice.
> 
> Despite the fact I speak Russian, I have no hostility to the Ukrainian and I understand the policy. Every citizen of Ukraine should be able to understand, speak and write on this language. No matter you are Russian, Hungarian and someone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can play fool as much as you want. Besides, originally, we were talking about your "two way road" and *the language is only one of many violations of "two way road"* for millions of Ukrainians. How about the others I've mentioned above?
> 
> Now a little lesson for you about something you pretend not to know.
> 
> On August 8, 2012 Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych signed a new law, “On the principles of language politics,” that allows cities and regions to pass legislation that would give Russian (or any other minority tongue) the status of an official language if 10 percent or more of the population of that region speaks it as a native tongue.
> 
> After much debate, the official status of the Ukrainian language was enshrined in Ukraine’s 1996 constitution.
> What Ukraine’s New Language Law Means for National Unity
> ----
> Ukraine’s parliament, the Verkhovna Rada, passed a new Law on Education on September 5. Article 7 of the legislation mandates the use of Ukrainian as the language of instruction in all state-funded secondary schools beginning in 2020. The rule stands to affect approximately 400,000 students, or 10 percent of the student population, who are educated in Russian, Polish, Hungarian, Bulgarian, Romanian, and Slovak schools across the country.
> 
> The foreign ministers of Hungary, Bulgaria, Greece, and Romania jointly signed a letter to the Council of Europe and the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) calling for the protection of minority linguistic rights in Ukraine.
> Ukraine’s Education Law May Needlessly Harm European Aspirations
> 
> "In particular, the new law entails a heavy reduction in the rights previously recognized to 'national minorities' concerning their own language of education,"
> PACE Criticizes Ukraine Over New Law On Education
> 
> You'll tell all of those ^ to F***  themselves or it will make a lot more sense if you'll go and F*** yourself, our honest and fair Ukrainian friend?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That law introduced such term as a regional language. The official language of Ukraine has been only one language - Ukrainian.
> 
> That law was abolished. Get used to it.
> 
> It is that PACE which passed a number of resolutions concerning Crimea and Donbas, demanding some things from Russia and after that restoring the right of Russian delegation in full without any conditions? Sure, it can do what I advised the Hungarian minister.
> 
> How many Ukrainian schools in Crimea?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Will you ever be back to your "two way road" or continue to spin the details?
> 
> How many in Crimea need Ukrainian language? At least we know: if somebody needs it it's official there.  Don't blame the mirror if your face is ugly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, it is so cute - to boast about an official status, while having closed all (except of one in Simferopol IIRC) Ukrainian schools there.
> 
> What details I spin?
Click to expand...

Hey, two ways road lover, will you bother to comment #381? Which details you spin you go ahead and watch yourself  but I'd like to hear how honest and fair Ukrainians (like yourself) feel about two way road when the other side needs it and you don't.

To refresh your memory here is #381:
It looks like you, proud and honest Ukrainians, remember about a two way road when you need your way, otherwise you wouldn't support the overthrowing of our dully elected president, tearing Ukraine away from Russia, suppressing all the languages  and so on and on. You knew millions of Ukraine residents wanted completely opposite, but that didn't make you think about "two way road".


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Hungarian minister can go fuck himself.
> 
> The Ukrainian language since 1991 is the only one official language of Ukraine, you ignorant piece. But only now the authorities begin realizing that on practice.
> 
> Despite the fact I speak Russian, I have no hostility to the Ukrainian and I understand the policy. Every citizen of Ukraine should be able to understand, speak and write on this language. No matter you are Russian, Hungarian and someone else.
> 
> 
> 
> You can play fool as much as you want. Besides, originally, we were talking about your "two way road" and *the language is only one of many violations of "two way road"* for millions of Ukrainians. How about the others I've mentioned above?
> 
> Now a little lesson for you about something you pretend not to know.
> 
> On August 8, 2012 Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych signed a new law, “On the principles of language politics,” that allows cities and regions to pass legislation that would give Russian (or any other minority tongue) the status of an official language if 10 percent or more of the population of that region speaks it as a native tongue.
> 
> After much debate, the official status of the Ukrainian language was enshrined in Ukraine’s 1996 constitution.
> What Ukraine’s New Language Law Means for National Unity
> ----
> Ukraine’s parliament, the Verkhovna Rada, passed a new Law on Education on September 5. Article 7 of the legislation mandates the use of Ukrainian as the language of instruction in all state-funded secondary schools beginning in 2020. The rule stands to affect approximately 400,000 students, or 10 percent of the student population, who are educated in Russian, Polish, Hungarian, Bulgarian, Romanian, and Slovak schools across the country.
> 
> The foreign ministers of Hungary, Bulgaria, Greece, and Romania jointly signed a letter to the Council of Europe and the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) calling for the protection of minority linguistic rights in Ukraine.
> Ukraine’s Education Law May Needlessly Harm European Aspirations
> 
> "In particular, the new law entails a heavy reduction in the rights previously recognized to 'national minorities' concerning their own language of education,"
> PACE Criticizes Ukraine Over New Law On Education
> 
> You'll tell all of those ^ to F***  themselves or it will make a lot more sense if you'll go and F*** yourself, our honest and fair Ukrainian friend?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That law introduced such term as a regional language. The official language of Ukraine has been only one language - Ukrainian.
> 
> That law was abolished. Get used to it.
> 
> It is that PACE which passed a number of resolutions concerning Crimea and Donbas, demanding some things from Russia and after that restoring the right of Russian delegation in full without any conditions? Sure, it can do what I advised the Hungarian minister.
> 
> How many Ukrainian schools in Crimea?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Will you ever be back to your "two way road" or continue to spin the details?
> 
> How many in Crimea need Ukrainian language? At least we know: if somebody needs it it's official there.  Don't blame the mirror if your face is ugly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, it is so cute - to boast about an official status, while having closed all (except of one in Simferopol IIRC) Ukrainian schools there.
> 
> What details I spin?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey, two ways road lover, will you bother to comment #381? Which details you spin you go ahead and watch yourself  but I'd like to hear how honest and fair Ukrainians (like yourself) feel about two way road when the other side needs it and you don't.
> 
> To refresh your memory here is #381:
> It looks like you, proud and honest Ukrainians, remember about a two way road when you need your way, otherwise you wouldn't support the overthrowing of our dully elected president, tearing Ukraine away from Russia, suppressing all the languages  and so on and on. You knew millions of Ukraine residents wanted completely opposite, but that didn't make you think about "two way road".
Click to expand...


No one forbade Yanukovich from organizing the joining Ukraine to the Customs Unon through a referenda. And with Crimea and Donbas as parts of Ukraine this decision had chances to be approved. He decided otherwise and got what he got. 

I fully support 'tearing Ukraine away from Russia'. It is a natural historical process. 

There has been and will be only one official language - Ukrainian. Every Ukrainian citizen should be able to understand, write and speak this language. Those one who hold an official post should use it while fulfilling their duties. Apart of that, everyone can choose any language they want in everyday life. It is as simple as that. There is no point for discussion.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can play fool as much as you want. Besides, originally, we were talking about your "two way road" and *the language is only one of many violations of "two way road"* for millions of Ukrainians. How about the others I've mentioned above?
> 
> Now a little lesson for you about something you pretend not to know.
> 
> On August 8, 2012 Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych signed a new law, “On the principles of language politics,” that allows cities and regions to pass legislation that would give Russian (or any other minority tongue) the status of an official language if 10 percent or more of the population of that region speaks it as a native tongue.
> 
> After much debate, the official status of the Ukrainian language was enshrined in Ukraine’s 1996 constitution.
> What Ukraine’s New Language Law Means for National Unity
> ----
> Ukraine’s parliament, the Verkhovna Rada, passed a new Law on Education on September 5. Article 7 of the legislation mandates the use of Ukrainian as the language of instruction in all state-funded secondary schools beginning in 2020. The rule stands to affect approximately 400,000 students, or 10 percent of the student population, who are educated in Russian, Polish, Hungarian, Bulgarian, Romanian, and Slovak schools across the country.
> 
> The foreign ministers of Hungary, Bulgaria, Greece, and Romania jointly signed a letter to the Council of Europe and the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) calling for the protection of minority linguistic rights in Ukraine.
> Ukraine’s Education Law May Needlessly Harm European Aspirations
> 
> "In particular, the new law entails a heavy reduction in the rights previously recognized to 'national minorities' concerning their own language of education,"
> PACE Criticizes Ukraine Over New Law On Education
> 
> You'll tell all of those ^ to F***  themselves or it will make a lot more sense if you'll go and F*** yourself, our honest and fair Ukrainian friend?
> 
> 
> 
> That law introduced such term as a regional language. The official language of Ukraine has been only one language - Ukrainian.
> 
> That law was abolished. Get used to it.
> 
> It is that PACE which passed a number of resolutions concerning Crimea and Donbas, demanding some things from Russia and after that restoring the right of Russian delegation in full without any conditions? Sure, it can do what I advised the Hungarian minister.
> 
> How many Ukrainian schools in Crimea?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Will you ever be back to your "two way road" or continue to spin the details?
> 
> How many in Crimea need Ukrainian language? At least we know: if somebody needs it it's official there.  Don't blame the mirror if your face is ugly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, it is so cute - to boast about an official status, while having closed all (except of one in Simferopol IIRC) Ukrainian schools there.
> 
> What details I spin?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey, two ways road lover, will you bother to comment #381? Which details you spin you go ahead and watch yourself  but I'd like to hear how honest and fair Ukrainians (like yourself) feel about two way road when the other side needs it and you don't.
> 
> To refresh your memory here is #381:
> It looks like you, proud and honest Ukrainians, remember about a two way road when you need your way, otherwise you wouldn't support the overthrowing of our dully elected president, tearing Ukraine away from Russia, suppressing all the languages  and so on and on. You knew millions of Ukraine residents wanted completely opposite, but that didn't make you think about "two way road".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No one forbade Yanukovich from organizing the joining Ukraine to the Customs Unon through a referenda. And with Crimea and Donbas as parts of Ukraine this decision had chances to be approved. He decided otherwise and got what he got.
> 
> I fully support 'tearing Ukraine away from Russia'. It is a natural historical process.
> 
> There has been and will be only one official language - Ukrainian. Every Ukrainian citizen should be able to understand, write and speak this language. Those one who hold an official post should use it while fulfilling their duties. Apart of that, everyone can choose any language they want in everyday life. It is as simple as that. There is no point for discussion.
Click to expand...

From what I read ^ I couldn't find your respect for the "two way road" for millions of Ukrainians who did not support all that crap.  Neither I can see it from the post coup Ukrainian officials.

Let me remind you: Yanukovich was overthrown just after he delayed signing Association with EU. His next step could have been a referendum about the future of Ukraine (Russia, EU or neither), it would make sense,  but such fair and honest two way roads lovers like yourself supported that anti-Constitutional act and didn't feel bad about others.



ESay said:


> That law was abolished. Get used to it.


^ that is what those two way road lovers tell us when we dare to talk about two way road for ourselves. Nothing new for me, you just clearly admitted that fact. Thank you.  (I'm not sarcastic now)


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> Let me remind you: Yanukovich was overthrown just after he delayed signing Association with EU. His next step could have been a referendum about the future of Ukraine (Russia, EU or neither), it would make sense, but such fair and honest two way roads lovers like yourself supported that anti-Constitutional act and didn't feel bad about others


Tell this crap to somebody else. Yanukovich wasn't going to organize any referendum. It was enough time from November to February to organize one if there would have been the will. 



Stratford57 said:


> that is what those two way road lovers tell us when we dare to talk about two way road for ourselves. Nothing new for me, you just clearly admitted that fact. Thank you. (I'm not sarcastic now)


You are welcome. I agree, with the personages like you it is impossible to build a two way road. You will be whining forever and follow the principle 'the worse - the better'. 

You are okay with closing Ukrainian schools in Crimea, hiding behind hilarious official status, but crying about closing Russian schools in Ukraine. Who are you in this case? Hypocrite? Fool? The Kremlin stooge? 

And don't hide behind the millions. These millions can say about themselves. The null can't dare to speak on their behalf.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Yanukovich wasn't going to organize any referendum. It was enough time from November to February to organize one if there would have been the will.
> .


Yanukovich was overthrown before his term was over, it's stupid to argue what he would or wouldn't do. The fact is: it was an unconstitutional act which the "honest and fair" Ukrainians supported and handle their country into foreigners hands and thus became traitors. The result of it is obvious for those who are not Zombies.



ESay said:


> You are welcome. I agree, with the personages like you it is impossible to build a two way road. You will be whining forever and follow the principle 'the worse - the better'.


You are denying your two way road for millions of the people in the East and blaming me. Remember the proverb: "Don't blame the mirror when your face is ugly"?



ESay said:


> You are okay with closing Ukrainian schools in Crimea, hiding behind hilarious official status, but crying about closing Russian schools in Ukraine. Who are you in this case? Hypocrite? Fool? The Kremlin stooge?


The people in Crimea are mainly Russian speaking and don't seem to need Ukrainian schools. I can't comment it because nobody whom I know personally from Crimea  complained about that. Everybody is just happy to be with Russia, especially, when they watch Ukraine going to hell.

What I do know is that not too many people in the Eastern Ukraine need Ukrainian schools, they want and need Russian schools,  but there are not too many Russian schools left and according to the new Ukrainian "democratic" law there won't be any by the beginning of the next school year. Don't blame the mirror when your face is ugly.


ESay said:


> And don't hide behind the millions. These millions can say about themselves. The null can't dare to speak on their behalf.


Millions remain millions and they need quite opposite to what you need, two way road lovers. If you prefer to ignore their needs stop preaching about two way road.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> Yanukovich was overthrown before his term was over, it's stupid to argue what he would or wouldn't do. The fact is: it was an unconstitutional act which the "honest and fair" Ukrainians supported and handle their country into foreigners hands and thus became traitors. The result of it is obvious for those who are not Zombies.


It is cool how you bother about foreigners hands, but are ready to greet the hands of other foreigners. 



Stratford57 said:


> What I do know is that not too many people in the Eastern Ukraine need Ukrainian schools, they want and need Russian schools, but there are not too many Russian schools left and according to the new Ukrainian "democratic" law there won't be any by the beginning of the next school year. Don't blame the mirror when your face is ugly.


The law allows private schools to teach on every language they choose. Go on. Organize these schools, there are millions like you as you claim. The state isn't a nun that should please everyone. And I don't see any reason why it should finance them (including with my money which I pay as taxes). 



Stratford57 said:


> Millions remain millions and they need quite opposite to what you need, two way road lovers. If you prefer to ignore their needs stop preaching about two way road.


Cool. Let these millions organize, create their political party, people movements; let they stage strikes, block roads; take the weapons in their hands, at least. Where are they all? 

I wasn't preaching you about two way road. I just compared a conversation of two people with a two way road. Dialogue, you ask a question and your partner gives an answer; your partner asks and you give an answer. Something like a car driving along the road and it meets another car riding in the opposite way. Is this explanation understandable for your brain, honey?


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> It is cool how you bother about foreigners hands, but are ready to greet the hands of other foreigners.


So far it’s a fact: you supported overthrowing a dully elected president with foreign interference which  was an unconstitutional and a crime. Blaming me for wanting to do something is ridiculous. When I actually do it, you can blame me for it, ok?



ESay said:


> The law allows private schools to teach on every language they choose. Go on. Organize these schools, there are millions like you as you claim. The state isn't a nun that should please everyone. And I don't see any reason why it should finance them (including with my money which I pay as taxes).



According to this law, Russian-language schools, ALL without exception, had to shift to the Ukrainian language from September 2020.
What's the fate of Russian-language schools in Ukraine?



ESay said:


> Cool. Let these millions organize, create their political party, people movements; let they stage strikes, block roads; take the weapons in their hands, at least. Where are they all?


Organize strikes? We did in 2014, not even strikes but peaceful protests. Our protests were constantly attacked by Nazis (whom police was protecting from us), our leaders ended up in prison  and the protesters  in Odessa were burned alive.

Human Rights Watch about Ukraine (2018 report):
“For the last year, Kyiv has been treating its human rights obligation as though they were optional,” said Tanya Cooper, Ukraine researcher at Human Rights Watch. “*The authorities are carrying out some deeply undemocratic practices and proposing new laws that that undermine Ukrainians’ fundamental freedoms.”*

In recent months, Ukraine’s government took several steps to restrict freedom of expression, media freedom, and freedom of association,

The leadership of the State Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) denied its *responsibility for secret detention and enforced disappearances*, despite numerous, well-documented allegations by former detainees. The military prosecutor’s investigation into these practices yielded no meaningful results.

*Justice for crimes committed during the 2014 Maidan protests, which led to the ouster of the Ukrainian government, and for mass disturbances in Odesa remained elusive. *Four years after Maidan, authorities appear unwilling to pursue meaningful prosecutions of those responsible for more than 100 deaths and numerous other crimes.
Ukraine: Failing Its Human Rights Commitments

You, Zombie, have been supporting a failed state controlled by US Deep State who turned  it into a pawn for their geopolitical interests (which have nothing to do with the interests of residents of Ukraine) and keep calling me all kinds of names for presenting the things as they are? Look around if you do live in Ukraine instead of posting tons of BS here.

Here is a song perfectly describing all those useful idiots who helped US Deep State to destroy their own country:

You don’t need a knife for a braggart
You’ll sing along with  him a little
And do what you want with him.

You don't need a knife for a greedy
Show him a penny
And do what you want with him.

You don't need a knife for a fool
Lie a little  to him
And do what you want with him.

Enjoy a  well known song which appears to describe how Deep State fooled Ukrainian useful idiots:


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> So far it’s a fact: you supported overthrowing a dully elected president with foreign interference which was an unconstitutional and a crime. Blaming me for wanting to do something is ridiculous. When I actually do it, you can blame me for it, ok?


My point still stands. You are blaming foreign hands, but at the same time you support foreign hands to interfere. 

I don't consider it ridiculous. I consider it hypocritical, from your part. 



Stratford57 said:


> According to this law, Russian-language schools, ALL without exception, had to shift to the Ukrainian language from September 2020.
> What's the fate of Russian-language schools in Ukraine?


I understand that you are a little bit slow, so I simply copy what I wrote in previous message:
The law allows private schools to teach on every language they choose. Go on. Organize these schools, there are millions like you as you claim. The state isn't a nun that should please everyone. And I don't see any reason why it should finance them (including with my money which I pay as taxes).

I will add. This law doesn't forbid the Russian language in the schools. It allows teaching in Russian in the elementary school, and in the middle and high school not less than 80% of curriculum must be in Ukrainian. So, the remaining 20% can be reserved for Russian. That is more than enough. 



Stratford57 said:


> Organize strikes? We did in 2014, not even strikes but peaceful protests. Our protests were constantly attacked by Nazis (whom police was protecting from us), our leaders ended up in prison and the protesters in Odessa were burned alive.


Political party. No? Millions. Great support. It will easily get to the parliament. 

Moreover, there is already one openly pro-Russian party there. You don't even need to organize something. Though, their seats aren't enough to decide anything. But go on, stop whining and do something about that. 



Stratford57 said:


> You, Zombie, have been supporting a failed state controlled by US Deep State who turned it into a pawn for their geopolitical interests (which have nothing to do with the interests of residents of Ukraine) and keep calling me all kinds of names for presenting the things as they are? Look around if you do live in Ukraine instead of posting tons of BS here.
> 
> Here is a song perfectly describing all those useful idiots who helped US Deep State to destroy their own country:


Cool movie. And now switch off the computer and run to the kindergarten spot. Outdoor activities are very useful for kids.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> You are blaming foreign hands, but at the same time you support foreign hands to interfere.


When and where did I support something unconstitutional?



ESay said:


> The law allows private schools to teach on every language they choose.


Not a fact but even in USA not too many can afford privet schools. And you recommend them for the poorest country in Europe? How nice.

IMF ranks Ukraine as Europe's poorest country


Though the *Ukrainian economy was the second largest in the Soviet Union,* after the dissolution of the union, independent Ukraine made a major transition from a planned economy to a market economy which plunged a major section of the country into poverty.
 The economy of Ukraine contracted severely, and people in the country struggled to live. As of 2018, the per capita *income in Ukraine is $2,963,* making it the poorest country in Europe.
The Poorest Countries In Europe

And that^ is an expected result of “Ukraine dragged from Russia”, which you are so happy about.



ESay said:


> Cool movie. And now switch off the computer and run to the kindergarten spot.



Yes, looks like US Deep State used that kindergarten song to turn you, braggarts, greedies and fools into pawns for their  own dirty purposes and for unconstitutional actions. Later many grew up from kindergarten and realized they had been used and tricked like Kuzma Skryabin, who first supported the coup but after a while said: the revolution was done by a fascist (Tyagnibok), a rabbit (Yatzenuk) and a boxer (Klichko) and even wrote a song which became very famous.


BTW, this song is in a pure Ukrainian language. Pretty soon after that he was killed in an accident.
----
Your numerous posts only keep proving one thing:  when you have your two way road and the others don’t it’s their problem and you don’t care much. Typical hypocrisy. Also we both know: Deep State and their local puppets have been trying to turn post coup Ukraine into anti-Russia (in spite of the will of millions in Ukraine).  It has been only one way road, and it’s been the quickest way to divide and to destroy the country (the only thing which has been successfully done since the coup).

*In Ukraine, in February 2019, 57% of the Ukrainians responded that they were positive or very positive about Russia, 27% were negative or very negative, 17% were hesitating; 77% of the Ukrainians had positive attitude to the Russians (the citizens of Russia), 13% – to the leadership of Russia (mainly at the expense of the East and Donbas). Positive attitude towards Russia is due mainly to a positive attitude towards the Russians (Russian citizens).*
Press releases and reports - Attitude of the population of Ukraine toward Russia and of the population of Russia toward Ukraine, February 2019


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> When and where did I support something unconstitutional?


Foreign troops taking over Ukrainian military bases and seizing Ukrainian property. 



Stratford57 said:


> Not a fact but even in USA not too many can afford privet schools. And you recommend them for the poorest country in Europe? How nice.


It is your problem how to organize them. Millions, I want to remind you. 

In either case, welcome to Ukrainian schools. Where you will be able to teach your kids in Russian in the elementary school and have 20% of curriculum in Russian in the middle and high school. 



Stratford57 said:


> *In Ukraine, in February 2019, 57% of the Ukrainians responded that they were positive or very positive about Russia, 27% were negative or very negative, 17% were hesitating; 77% of the Ukrainians had positive attitude to the Russians (the citizens of Russia), 13% – to the leadership of Russia (mainly at the expense of the East and Donbas). Positive attitude towards Russia is due mainly to a positive attitude towards the Russians (Russian citizens).*
> Press releases and reports - Attitude of the population of Ukraine toward Russia and of the population of Russia toward Ukraine, February 2019


This poll is somewhat strange. In the next paragraph it says: in February 2019, 34% of the population of Ukraine had good or very good attitude to Russia; 55% - bad or very bad. 

Btw, the same poll says that those who wants Ukraine to be an independent on Russia state remains 87%. I think it is s good figure. I can congratulate us with it.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Foreign troops taking over Ukrainian military bases and seizing Ukrainian property.


Russian troops were in Crimea according to the treaty and since 1997. Since Crimea voted to leave Ukraine what were they supposed to do with Ukrainian bases and properties, to mail them to Ukraine?

At least Russia returned 4 Ukrainian ships go back to Ukraine.
https:// gordonua.com/news/crimea/rossiya-vernula-ukraine-korabl-upravleniya-donbass-18476.html

And Putin invited Ukrainian officials to Crimea to discuss the return of other military techniques.
https:// korrespondent.net/world/russia/3927899-dobryi-putyn-rf-otdaet-ukrayne-korably-yz-kryma

The "*Agreement between the Russian Federation and Ukraine on the Parameters of the Division of the Black Sea Fleet*", the "*Agreement between the Russian Federation and Ukraine on the Status and Conditions of the Presence of the Russian Federation Black Sea Fleet on the territory of Ukraine*" and "*Agreement between the Government of the Russian Federation and the Government of Ukraine on Payments Associated with the Division of the Black Sea Fleet and Its Presence on the territory of Ukraine*" were the three treaties[2] signed between Russia and Ukraine on 28 May 1997 whereby the two countries established two independent national fleets, divided armaments and bases between them.,[3][4] and set out conditions for basing of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in Crimea.

The treaty also allowed Russia to maintain up to 25,000 troops, 24 artillery systems, 132 armored vehicles, and 22 military planes on the Crimean Peninsula.
Partition Treaty on the Status and Conditions of the Black Sea Fleet - Wikipedia

Let me remind you: Crimea never liked it to be with Ukraine but never thought about any unconstitutional actions up to the point when this unconstitutional action occurred in Kiev with your full support.. Since you supported Pandora Box opening don’t blame the others for their adequate reaction.

American Conservative:
Was it U.S. complicity in the Kiev coup that ousted the elected pro-Russian regime that caused Putin to seize Crimea to hold onto Russia’s Black Sea naval base at Sevastopol?
*Many Putin actions we condemn were reactions to what we did.
Russia annexed Crimea bloodlessly*.
Trump Calls Off Cold War II | The American Conservative



ESay said:


> Btw, the same poll says that those who wants Ukraine to be an independent on Russia state remains 87%. I think it is s good figure. I can congratulate us with it.


I’d like to remind you we were talking about good relationship with Russia, not independence. Not very convenient subject for you, ha?



ESay said:


> It is your problem how to organize them. Millions, I want to remind you.


Since you were preaching us for two way road, so you go ahead and organize them  even though I don’t thing you know what you are even talking about.

However it would make a lot more sense to leave the things as were (with Yanukovich) with the language and to preserve the people’s rights. But common sense doesn’t seem to be your strong side.

And look what usually happens when Russian speaking people want to arrange something in democratic Ukraine:

 January 30
Google Translate
*In the Dnieper, the National Corps in masks and with fireworks pickets the House of Trade Unions (Photo)*


January 31, in the Dnieper in the House of Trade Unions should be held the 2nd day of the Orthodox festival "International Film Assembly on the Dnieper", which organizes the cultural center "Ladder". This year, the event has been sharply criticized by activists who intend to picket the House of Trade Unions, where the festival takes place, the NM correspondent reports.

This year, filmmakers from Ukraine, Sweden, Serbia, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus and Russia present their work at the Cinema Assembly. It is the latter that cause the indignation f activists.
Google Translate














And yesterday they proudly reported:
*Scandalous festival with Russian cinema canceled in Dnipro*
Google Translate

Was anybody punished for that? I don’t think so.

*Mark Ames*
@MarkAmesExiled
It’s a crime in Ukraine today to criticize Ukraine’s WW2 Nazi collaborators, rehabilitated as official heroes post-Maidan. So Ukraine’s first Jewish president, fearful of angering powerful neofascists back home, skulked away from Israel Holocaust event:.
Mark Ames on Twitter

That’s  an ugly face of Ukrainian democracy and respecting two way road  and the rights of those who don’t hate Russia, the majority according to survey posted above.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> . Since you supported Pandora Box opening don’t blame the others for their adequate reaction.


Actually, this phrase would be enough to answer my question. 

Buy you again tried to look more silly than you even are with this nonsense about the Black See Fleet. 

This agreement didnt allow the Russian troops to seize Ukrainian military bases and administrative buildings. Moreover, it imposed restrictions on the movement of the troops. 

During annexation, there were deployed some Russian units from Russia which hadn't a right to be there. 

The referendum took place only after the annexation happened de facto. 



Stratford57 said:


> I’d like to remind you we were talking about good relationship with Russia, not independence. Not very convenient subject for you, ha?


Why is that? Go on. 



Stratford57 said:


> Since you were preaching us for two way road, so you go ahead and organize them even though I don’t thing you know what you are even talking about.


I understand that you are a little bit slow, so I will copy here what I wrote before:
I wasn't preaching you about two way road. I just compared a conversation of two people with a two way road. Dialogue, you ask a question and your partner gives an answer; your partner asks and you give an answer. Something like a car driving along the road and it meets another car riding in the opposite way. Is this explanation understandable for your brain, honey?

Yeah, someone should organize you something while you will be sitting on a sofa and whining about your bad life. Not going to happen. No one owes you nothing. If you want to achieve something - do it for yourself. 



Stratford57 said:


> And look what usually happens when Russian speaking people want to arrange something in democratic Ukraine:


I want to remind you - millions. Great force. Where are they?


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Actually, this phrase would be enough to answer my question.
> 
> Buy you again tried to look more silly than you even are with this nonsense about the Black See Fleet.
> 
> This agreement didnt allow the Russian troops to seize Ukrainian military bases and administrative buildings. Moreover, it imposed restrictions on the movement of the troops.
> 
> During annexation, there were deployed some Russian units from Russia which hadn't a right to be there.
> 
> The referendum took place only after the annexation happened de facto.


If there were no unconstitutional coup (which you supported) in Kiev Crimea would be within Ukraine with all your bases until now. What’s so difficult to understand?



ESay said:


> I understand that you are a little bit slow, so I will copy here what I wrote before:
> I wasn't preaching you about two way road. I just compared a conversation of two people with a two way road. Dialogue, you ask a question and your partner gives an answer; your partner asks and you give an answer. Something like a car driving along the road and it meets another car riding in the opposite way. Is this explanation understandable for your brain, honey?
> 
> Yeah, someone should organize you something while you will be sitting on a sofa and whining about your bad life. Not going to happen. No one owes you nothing. If you want to achieve something - do it for yourself.


Ok, let’s go back to a kindergarten. 

1. Why did a certain group of people grab the power from Yanukovich? Because they thought Yanukovich was bad for the country and they badly wanted to do something for the country which would be better, right? Some people like yourself believed them and supported that unconstitutional actions.

2. Were the local people who grabbed the power unaware that there were many nationalities living in Ukraine who wanted and finally obtained the right for their first language?

3. What this certain group of people should have done about it (if they really wanted to improve the life of Ukrainian residents)? Just NOTING, they should have left it as is, there was even no need for any money to spend.

4. What has this group of people done in reality? Violated the rights of millions, yes, millions, and you know that as well as I do. And did it make any sense? No, no sense unless their real intention was to suppress huge amount of Ukrainian residents.

Since you, a two way road lover, have your way already in Ukraine, use your own advice (if you know what you are talking about), go ahead and help the other side to feel comfortable in the country you support so much. If you are really that honest and fair as you want to look.


----------



## ESay

Stratford57 said:


> If there were no unconstitutional coup (which you supported) in Kiev Crimea would be within Ukraine with all your bases until now. What’s so difficult to understand?


Nothing. And as I already told you, such answer would be enouorganise


Stratford57 said:


> Since you, a two way road lover, have your way already in Ukraine, use your own advice (if you know what you are talking about), go ahead and help the other side to feel comfortable in the country you support so much. If you are really that honest and fair as you want to look.


Honey, I have met (personally) Hungarians from Zakarpatie who didn't understand Ukrainian, whatsoever. I think it isn't appropriate. 

Yes, there are many nations living in Ukraine. But they should be able to communicate with each other. So, there should be the language of inter-nations communication. And it is understandable that the official language of the state should be such a language. Everyone should be able to understand, write and speak on this language. 

The national minorities will have their quotas while studying, they can organise studying of their languages out of the state schools. I dont see any problems whatsoever. End of story.


----------



## Stratford57

ESay said:


> Nothing. And as I already told you, such answer would be enouorganise


A russian proverb may help me to answer many of your questions: Don’t blame a mirror when your face is ugly.



ESay said:


> Honey, I have met (personally) Hungarians from Zakarpatie who didn't understand Ukrainian, whatsoever. I think it isn't appropriate.
> 
> Yes, there are many nations living in Ukraine. But they should be able to communicate with each other. So, there should be the language of inter-nations communication. And it is understandable that the official language of the state should be such a language. Everyone should be able to understand, write and speak on this language.
> 
> The national minorities will have their quotas while studying, they can organise studying of their languages out of the state schools. I dont see any problems whatsoever. End of story.


I see, back to ABC:

You are  one of those who want “European future”, right? Then may be it makes sense to do something to look like them especially with the language, where your post coup morons did not have to do anything because a democratic law has already existed. Let me remind you: in small  European countries there are several official languages while in about *35 million* post coup Ukraine all official languages have been reduced up to just one. It did not make any sense except for suppressing the rights of millions of Russian speaking people and quotas you’ve been mumbling about are just a drop in a sea.

In Belgium there are 3 official languages: Dutch, French and German. Population = 11. 56 million.
In Switzerland there are 4 official languages: German, French, Italian and Romanish. Population = 8.57 million.

Those ^ examples illustrate in which countries the  government wants to make their citizens comfortable and in which countries like Ukraine the government just doesn’t give a sh*t about their needs.


----------



## Baron

Stratford57 said:


> Soros and Obama’s administration have also tuned Ukraine into a cozy place for breeding, training and recruiting of Neo-Nazis. FBI agents and several Congressmen have been trying to attract the people attention but...American  Media has been sooooo silent about that.
> 
> 1. Criminal Complaint of special FBI agent Scott Bierwirth
> https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...laint/0f1e76cdeef814133f24/optimized/full.pdf
> 
> Page 9:
> In August 2018 RAM members had a trip in Ukraine and met with Olena Semenyaka the leader of a political party in Ukraine which was found out of a military regiment  called Azov Battalion. *Azov Battalion is a paramilitary unit of Ukrainian National Guard which is known for its association with Neo-Nazi ideology and use of Nazi symbolism and which is believed to have participated in training and radicalizing United States-based white supremacy organizations.*
> 
> !!!! RAM is an extremist group headquartered in S. California.
> 
> Olena Semenyaka’s picture:
> View attachment 291322
> 
> 2. October 16, 2019 , *Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?*
> 
> “White supremacist violent extremism, one type of racially- and ethnically-motivated violent extremism, is one of the most potent forces driving domestic terrorism.” Rose’s letter names *Azov Battalion*, Nordic Resistance Movement, and National Action as three examples of foreign groups that have been *connected to recent terrorist attacks around the world as well as recruiting and influencing American citizens*.
> 
> The shooter in the Christchurch, New Zeeland, was also trained in Azov Battalion.
> Rose Leads Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?
> 
> 
> 3. KYIV, Ukraine—When Deputy Secretary of State George Kent spoke at the U.S. House of Representatives impeachment hearings this week, he painted a powerful picture of Ukrainian bravery in the face of Russian aggression.
> 
> But Kent most likely did not have in mind the most famous—and infamous—of those volunteer units, the Azov Battalion, which *40 members of Congress have asked the State Department to designate as a Foreign Terrorist Organization.* Some of its members are neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and avowed anti-Semites.
> Ukraine’s Anti-Russia Azov Battalion: ‘Minutemen’ or Neo-Nazi Terrorists?
> 
> 
> 4. Ex FBI agent Ali Soufan:
> 
> And what Syria did for jihadists, Ukraine is doing for white supremacists. “It’s had a galvanizing effect,” Blazakis said. “It’s given them, for lack of a better word, a playground in which there is turmoil and chaos, a kind of playground that doesn’t exist in a conventional sense in places like the United States.”
> 
> One of the most prominent destinations for these fighters is the *Azov Battalion, a pro-Ukrainian force that analysts say has embraced neo-Nazi views while targeting right-wing or white supremacist groups around the world for recruitment.*
> Ukraine's Civil War Is a 'Playground' for White Supremacists. What Could Go Wrong?
> 
> Pictures of Azov Battalion:
> 
> View attachment 291323
> 
> View attachment 291324
> 
> View attachment 291325
> 
> View attachment 291326
> 
> How come American journalists have not reported about such a Nazi nest in the middle of Europe? Russian journalists have been good about reporting this problem. All the facts above are from their Nov 22 news release:
> 
> www.1tv.ru/news/issue/2019-11-22/21:00#4



Just google who own the entirely US 'press'


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## Stratford57

Baron said:


> Just google who own the entirely US 'press'



Today, the major outlets are almost all owned by  six conglomerates. They can easily hide the truth or spread all kinds of lies simultaneously. And that's basically what we have been witnessing lately. 

Big6:
The 6 Companies That Own (Almost) All Media [INFOGRAPHIC]





That’s why it’s so easy to spread fake news and to spin any kind of lies: once created they “suddenly” appear in all news outlets.


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## Baron

Stratford57 said:


> Baron said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just google who own the entirely US 'press'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Today, the major outlets are almost all owned by  six conglomerates. They can easily hide the truth or spread all kinds of lies simultaneously. And that's basically what we have been witnessing lately.
> 
> Big6:
> The 6 Companies That Own (Almost) All Media [INFOGRAPHIC]
> 
> View attachment 306064
> 
> That’s why it’s so easy to spread fake news and to spin any kind of lies: once created they “suddenly” appear in all news outlets.
Click to expand...


There is a nice word: Presstitutes


----------



## Stratford57

Baron said:


> Stratford57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Baron said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just google who own the entirely US 'press'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Today, the major outlets are almost all owned by  six conglomerates. They can easily hide the truth or spread all kinds of lies simultaneously. And that's basically what we have been witnessing lately.
> 
> Big6:
> The 6 Companies That Own (Almost) All Media [INFOGRAPHIC]
> 
> View attachment 306064
> 
> That’s why it’s so easy to spread fake news and to spin any kind of lies: once created they “suddenly” appear in all news outlets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a nice word: Presstitutes
Click to expand...

Information is a way to influence and to control human minds: those humans are potential voters with the right of choosing  politicians who determine the policy of their countries. So, this is an easy way of invasion of sovereign internal politics of other countries, a big geopolitical game with serious political goals.

Facts:
-          Before 1953 USA created certain institutions which were waging a psychological war with USSR (definition of psychological war comes from their doctrine);
-          In 1953 USA called it an info-war;
-          In 1992 info-war  becomes a concept in US doctrine;
-          In 1998 USA gets  an exclusive copyright for Internet due to ICANN company exclusive right of assigning names and domains on the Internet.

USA were the first to create cyber-troops with more than 5500 units and with over $5.5 billion  financing.

American politicians accusations of somebody else in propaganda, influencing, interference etc.  is hypocritical because USA were the first (and are still successful) to  use information as a way of invasion of sovereign affairs of many other countries, producing colorful revolutions or adopting UN resolutions based on false accusations.

Today, lies are a political instrument which US establishment uses to make the people of different countries (including Ukraine) feel fear, anger, mistrust, indignation of those whom  they want to destroy (so far, mainly Trump and Putin) at the unconscious   level, all those negative reactions are allowing the US dirty politicians to take any aggressive actions. It makes it fairly easy to plant an image of the enemy by means of  false accusations.


----------



## anynameyouwish

Stratford57 said:


> Soros and Obama’s administration have also tuned Ukraine into a cozy place for breeding, training and recruiting of Neo-Nazis. FBI agents and several Congressmen have been trying to attract the people attention but...American  Media has been sooooo silent about that.
> 
> 1. Criminal Complaint of special FBI agent Scott Bierwirth
> https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...laint/0f1e76cdeef814133f24/optimized/full.pdf
> 
> Page 9:
> In August 2018 RAM members had a trip in Ukraine and met with Olena Semenyaka the leader of a political party in Ukraine which was found out of a military regiment  called Azov Battalion. *Azov Battalion is a paramilitary unit of Ukrainian National Guard which is known for its association with Neo-Nazi ideology and use of Nazi symbolism and which is believed to have participated in training and radicalizing United States-based white supremacy organizations.*
> 
> !!!! RAM is an extremist group headquartered in S. California.
> 
> Olena Semenyaka’s picture:
> View attachment 291322
> 
> 2. October 16, 2019 , *Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?*
> 
> “White supremacist violent extremism, one type of racially- and ethnically-motivated violent extremism, is one of the most potent forces driving domestic terrorism.” Rose’s letter names *Azov Battalion*, Nordic Resistance Movement, and National Action as three examples of foreign groups that have been *connected to recent terrorist attacks around the world as well as recruiting and influencing American citizens*.
> 
> The shooter in the Christchurch, New Zeeland, was also trained in Azov Battalion.
> Rose Leads Dozens of House Dems in Asking State Dept: Why Aren’t White Supremacist Groups Listed as Foreign Terrorist Organizations?
> 
> 
> 3. KYIV, Ukraine—When Deputy Secretary of State George Kent spoke at the U.S. House of Representatives impeachment hearings this week, he painted a powerful picture of Ukrainian bravery in the face of Russian aggression.
> 
> But Kent most likely did not have in mind the most famous—and infamous—of those volunteer units, the Azov Battalion, which *40 members of Congress have asked the State Department to designate as a Foreign Terrorist Organization.* Some of its members are neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and avowed anti-Semites.
> Ukraine’s Anti-Russia Azov Battalion: ‘Minutemen’ or Neo-Nazi Terrorists?
> 
> 
> 4. Ex FBI agent Ali Soufan:
> 
> And what Syria did for jihadists, Ukraine is doing for white supremacists. “It’s had a galvanizing effect,” Blazakis said. “It’s given them, for lack of a better word, a playground in which there is turmoil and chaos, a kind of playground that doesn’t exist in a conventional sense in places like the United States.”
> 
> One of the most prominent destinations for these fighters is the *Azov Battalion, a pro-Ukrainian force that analysts say has embraced neo-Nazi views while targeting right-wing or white supremacist groups around the world for recruitment.*
> Ukraine's Civil War Is a 'Playground' for White Supremacists. What Could Go Wrong?
> 
> Pictures of Azov Battalion:
> 
> View attachment 291323
> 
> View attachment 291324
> 
> View attachment 291325
> 
> View attachment 291326
> 
> How come American journalists have not reported about such a Nazi nest in the middle of Europe? Russian journalists have been good about reporting this problem. All the facts above are from their Nov 22 news release:
> 
> www.1tv.ru/news/issue/2019-11-22/21:00#4




Nazis in the Ukraine?

will Tomi Lahren be inviting them over soon?


----------



## Stratford57

anynameyouwish said:


> Nazis in the Ukraine?
> 
> will Tomi Lahren be inviting them over soon?


No need to invite, they are already there. Especially, since Trump had won the presidency.


----------

