# U.S. Marines To Investigate Video of Soldiers Urinating on Corpses



## Ancient lion

> The United States Marine Corps is launching an investigation into a video which appears to show Marines in full combat gear urinating on several dead bodies ... TMZ has learned.
> 
> In the extremely graphic video, which appeared on various websites this morning, at least 4 male Marines expose their genitals and urinate on the bodies.
> 
> The mystery person who posted the video included a caption that reads, "scout sniper team 4 with 3rd battalion 2nd marines out of camp lejeune peeing on dead talibans."
> 
> Now, Captain Kendra N. Hardesty -- a Media Officer for the USMC -- tells us, "While we have not yet verified the origin or authenticity of this video, the actions portrayed are not consistent with our core values and are not indicative of the character of the Marines in our Corps."


The video
U.S. Marines to Launch Investigation into Soldiers Urinating on Dead Bodies | TMZ.com


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## Crackerjack

A stern talking to is definitely in order.


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## Mr. H.

No big deal.


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## The Gadfly

New ROE?


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## MikeK

Expose and condition people to organized insanity and that's what you get.  

We don't need to be there.  And if we weren't there this kind of thing wouldn't be happening.


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## The Infidel

I say 



*WHO GIVES A FLYING FUCK??
*
If thats all they did... good for them


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## Sunni Man

The Gadfly said:


> New ROE?



PC ROE


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## SayMyName

I see this two ways. We send people off to kill other people, but we can't urinate on their corpse, which most likely was done by these Marines to "psych out" some nearby enemy supporters watching them.

We can also look at this just as the Marine Corps spokesman stated, that it does not reflect the core values that are held. In other words, discipline, and the perception that we are better than the enemy, must be maintained.

I would give them a good talking to for being dumb by getting filmed, then order them to do better in the future. No extra duty assigned as a consequence.


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## High_Gravity

So?


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## Prevail

I only see one problem with this whole situation...if your going to do something stupid don't record it, and if you do record it, definitely don't let it make its way to youtube.  

Young soldiers have trouble separating killing from emotion.  To bring themselves to a point where they are able to take the life of another human being, they have to dehumanize the individual.  This is done in a variety of ways, starting in basic training, and continuing after they get to their unit.  Right or wrong, it helps these young men cope with what they are doing.  

Those who have been in combat know that the humor which emerges from it is dark and twisted.  This is done out of necessity, because the norms and standards of civilized society don't hold up to the horrors of war.  So things like this happen.  I hate to break it to the armchair generals out there, but when you send 19 year old kids to a place like this, and train them to kill efficiently and without remorse, you cant expect them to turn around and treat their "targets" as human.  

I'm not excusing it by any means, what I'm saying is that the civilian world (and the non-combat arms side of the military for that matter) is simply getting a glimpse into the dark mind of a young Infantryman.  I'm not saying that all of us are like that, or that we have all done this.  What I am saying is that your standards of civilization and humanity would be a serious impediment to the goal of "locating, closing with, and neutralizing the enemy".

So, speaking as a former young Infantryman myself, the American public should take this as a chance to see the kind of emotional angst that these young men go through.  These are your sons, and friends.  Instead of condemning the act, consider what they have been through that would bring them to do it.  Just imagine the frustration of losing a friend to an IED, and knowing that you possess the ability to unleash the fury of God himself upon the attacker, but he is nowhere to be found.  Then, when you finally catch up to the bad guy, the bomb maker who has killed your friends and plagued your nightmares for months, do you really believe you would treat his corpse with all the respect of a saint?


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## High_Gravity

Prevail said:


> I only see one problem with this whole situation...if your going to do something stupid don't record it, and if you do record it, definitely don't let it make its way to youtube.
> 
> Young soldiers have trouble separating killing from emotion.  To bring themselves to a point where they are able to take the life of another human being, they have to dehumanize the individual.  This is done in a variety of ways, starting in basic training, and continuing after they get to their unit.  Right or wrong, it helps these young men cope with what they are doing.
> 
> Those who have been in combat know that the humor which emerges from it is dark and twisted.  This is done out of necessity, because the norms and standards of civilized society don't hold up to the horrors of war.  So things like this happen.  I hate to break it to the armchair generals out there, but when you send 19 year old kids to a place like this, and train them to kill efficiently and without remorse, you cant expect them to turn around and treat their "targets" as human.
> 
> I'm not excusing it by any means, what I'm saying is that the civilian world (and the non-combat arms side of the military for that matter) is simply getting a glimpse into the dark mind of a young Infantryman.  I'm not saying that all of us are like that, or that we have all done this.  What I am saying is that your standards of civilization and humanity would be a serious impediment to the goal of "locating, closing with, and neutralizing the enemy".
> 
> So, speaking as a former young Infantryman myself, the American public should take this as a chance to see the kind of emotional angst that these young men go through.  These are your sons, and friends.  Instead of condemning the act, consider what they have been through that would bring them to do it.  Just imagine the frustration of losing a friend to an IED, and knowing that you possess the ability to unleash the fury of God himself upon the attacker, but he is nowhere to be found.  Then, when you finally catch up to the bad guy, the bomb maker who has killed your friends and plagued your nightmares for months, do you really believe you would treat his corpse with all the respect of a saint?



You are spot on my friend, not to mention for some of these guys they have probably been on multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan, this kind of thing takes its toll on a man after a while.


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## MikeK

SayMyName said:


> I see this two ways. We send people off to kill other people, but we can't urinate on their corpse, which most likely was done by these Marines to "psych out" some nearby enemy supporters watching them.
> 
> [...]


_"Psych out"_  What exactly does that mean?


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## 007

They gotta piss somewhere... why not on a sheet head cowards dead face?

I'd do it.


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## uscitizen

MikeK said:


> SayMyName said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see this two ways. We send people off to kill other people, but we can't urinate on their corpse, which most likely was done by these Marines to "psych out" some nearby enemy supporters watching them.
> 
> [...]
> 
> 
> 
> _"Psych out"_  What exactly does that mean?
Click to expand...


Make em want to kill more Americans I would think to be the outcome.


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## High_Gravity

This is all over the web now, this isn't good. These Marines can kiss their careers goodbye, people will want heads on a platter for this.


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## eots

MikeK said:


> SayMyName said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see this two ways. We send people off to kill other people, but we can't urinate on their corpse, which most likely was done by these Marines to "psych out" some nearby enemy supporters watching them.
> 
> [...]
> 
> 
> 
> _"Psych out"_  What exactly does that mean?
Click to expand...


it means to openly display your combat related mental illness  so the "enemy" will know you are so far gone you are capable of almost anything


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## eots

I just hope none of these poor bastards doesn't comes home and kills themselves


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## ABikerSailor

Several things here.........

Yes.  Our military is highly trained and very efficient.  Yes.  Our military is trained to follow the Geneva conventions and other rules when it comes to war.

These Marines pissing on the corpses of people they've just killed goes against good order and discipline, as well as shows them to be lacking in a certain amount of discipline.

Combine that with the fact that what they did is now posted on YouTube and is visible to the world, it reflects BADLY on the rest of the Marines and the US Military as a result, because it tells the world that our military is just a bunch of undisciplined thugs.

Me personally?  As a 20 year U.S. Navy veteran who has been in 4 combat zones, what these Marines did was not right and they should be prosecuted, not only for what they did, but for the unwanted attention that it has generated.

According to the news this morning, they've figured out the unit and are fast closing in on who these Marines were.  I hope they are given a courts martial and are immediately discharged with a BCD or lower.


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## High_Gravity

ABikerSailor said:


> Several things here.........
> 
> Yes.  Our military is highly trained and very efficient.  Yes.  Our military is trained to follow the Geneva conventions and other rules when it comes to war.
> 
> These Marines pissing on the corpses of people they've just killed goes against good order and discipline, as well as shows them to be lacking in a certain amount of discipline.
> 
> Combine that with the fact that what they did is now posted on YouTube and is visible to the world, it reflects BADLY on the rest of the Marines and the US Military as a result, because it tells the world that our military is just a bunch of undisciplined thugs.
> 
> Me personally?  As a 20 year U.S. Navy veteran who has been in 4 combat zones, what these Marines did was not right and they should be prosecuted, not only for what they did, but for the unwanted attention that it has generated.
> 
> *According to the news this morning, they've figured out the unit and are fast closing in on who these Marines were.  I hope they are given a courts martial and are immediately discharged with a BCD or lower.*



That's probably what's going to happen, this is all over the web now and heads have to roll. Me personally I am more curious about these Marines, how many deployments have they been on?  alot of these guys have been on multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan and are stressed the fuck out from all the combat they are seeing.


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## ABikerSailor

High_Gravity said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Several things here.........
> 
> Yes.  Our military is highly trained and very efficient.  Yes.  Our military is trained to follow the Geneva conventions and other rules when it comes to war.
> 
> These Marines pissing on the corpses of people they've just killed goes against good order and discipline, as well as shows them to be lacking in a certain amount of discipline.
> 
> Combine that with the fact that what they did is now posted on YouTube and is visible to the world, it reflects BADLY on the rest of the Marines and the US Military as a result, because it tells the world that our military is just a bunch of undisciplined thugs.
> 
> Me personally?  As a 20 year U.S. Navy veteran who has been in 4 combat zones, what these Marines did was not right and they should be prosecuted, not only for what they did, but for the unwanted attention that it has generated.
> 
> *According to the news this morning, they've figured out the unit and are fast closing in on who these Marines were.  I hope they are given a courts martial and are immediately discharged with a BCD or lower.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's probably what's going to happen, this is all over the web now and heads have to roll. Me personally I am more curious about these Marines, how many deployments have they been on?  alot of these guys have been on multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan and are stressed the fuck out from all the combat they are seeing.
Click to expand...


That is why I said courts martial, so that kind of evidence can also be taken into consideration.

But after the black eye that they've given my military, I don't want 'em to be a part of it anymore.


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## High_Gravity

ABikerSailor said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Several things here.........
> 
> Yes.  Our military is highly trained and very efficient.  Yes.  Our military is trained to follow the Geneva conventions and other rules when it comes to war.
> 
> These Marines pissing on the corpses of people they've just killed goes against good order and discipline, as well as shows them to be lacking in a certain amount of discipline.
> 
> Combine that with the fact that what they did is now posted on YouTube and is visible to the world, it reflects BADLY on the rest of the Marines and the US Military as a result, because it tells the world that our military is just a bunch of undisciplined thugs.
> 
> Me personally?  As a 20 year U.S. Navy veteran who has been in 4 combat zones, what these Marines did was not right and they should be prosecuted, not only for what they did, but for the unwanted attention that it has generated.
> 
> *According to the news this morning, they've figured out the unit and are fast closing in on who these Marines were.  I hope they are given a courts martial and are immediately discharged with a BCD or lower.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's probably what's going to happen, this is all over the web now and heads have to roll. Me personally I am more curious about these Marines, how many deployments have they been on?  alot of these guys have been on multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan and are stressed the fuck out from all the combat they are seeing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is why I said courts martial, so that kind of evidence can also be taken into consideration.
> 
> But after the black eye that they've given my military, I don't want 'em to be a part of it anymore.
Click to expand...


I don't know man, after 10 years of this war I think its starting to change us. If I read a story like this before 9/11 I would have found it absolutely horrible, now 10 years into this war I see this video and can hardly blink, and I can even understand why the Marines would do this, although I do agree it is wrong. Things like and the stories about the Air Force hacking off body parts to make bodies fit into caskets, dropping off cremated Soldiers remains into garbage dumps etc, it just tells me we are losing our humanity with this war, these are all things that would absolutely horrify us befor 9/11, now we can read this, maybe condemn it, and than go about our day like nothing. It's fucked up.


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## 007

The only thing they did wrong was film it.

War is hell.


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## MikeK

ABikerSailor said:


> Several things here.........
> 
> Yes.  Our military is highly trained and very efficient.  Yes.  Our military is trained to follow the Geneva conventions and other rules when it comes to war.
> 
> These Marines pissing on the corpses of people they've just killed goes against good order and discipline, as well as shows them to be lacking in a certain amount of discipline.
> 
> Combine that with the fact that what they did is now posted on YouTube and is visible to the world, it reflects BADLY on the rest of the Marines and the US Military as a result, because it tells the world that our military is just a bunch of undisciplined thugs.
> 
> Me personally?  As a 20 year U.S. Navy veteran who has been in 4 combat zones, what these Marines did was not right and they should be prosecuted, not only for what they did, but for the unwanted attention that it has generated.
> 
> According to the news this morning, they've figured out the unit and are fast closing in on who these Marines were.  I hope they are given a courts martial and are immediately discharged with a BCD or lower.


I'm not proud of what these guys did, either.  But some consideration must be given to the circumstances our government has exposed our troops to in the Middle East for longer than World War Two.  The best term to apply to what is and has been going on over there is organized madness.  

It's not as if these troops were flown directly from their home towns and normal lifestyles into that environment within a 24 hour time frame.  Some of them have been there for years, living and breathing it.  I don't know about you, but because of my relatively sane daily experience I am incapable of understanding the kind of emotional pressures these snipers have had to deal with for weeks, months, some of them years.  

I was in the Marine Corps.  Fortunately during peacetime.  But I know what Parris Island does to the mind and I am quite familiar with the primary objective of Marine Corps training after boot camp and ITR, which is to transform the normal personality into one which is perfectly comfortable with the motivation to kill.  As I've later learned, and as any behaviorist will attest, that is a rather basic definition of insanity.  

These men have been killing other humans, presumably their _designated_ enemies on a daily basis, possibly for months.  Imagine doing that.  Now try to imagine what thinking of other humans only as _targets_ would do to your personality.  

Pissing on corpses is no big deal to men whose daily experience is producing corpses.  And those officers who will prosecute these Marines need to be mindful of that.  What those Marines did is crazy.  Because they are crazy.  But they didn't start out that way.


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## whitehall

I guess we are lucky that it was almost impossible for a member of the Military to make a movie much less take a photograph of combat situations during WW2 but then again it wouldn't be any big deal to piss on the bodies of Nazis or Japs back then.


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## High_Gravity

whitehall said:


> I guess we are lucky that it was almost impossible for a member of the Military to make a movie much less take a photograph of combat situations during WW2 but then again it wouldn't be any big deal to piss on the bodies of Nazis or Japs back then.



I am sure the troops back in WW2 did their share of "pissing" and god knows what else, its just that none of it was recorded plus we are much more PC now than we were back than, now we are trying to "win the hearts and minds" of the people we are fighting against.


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## MikeK

whitehall said:


> I guess we are lucky that it was almost impossible for a member of the Military to make a movie much less take a photograph of combat situations during WW2 but then again it wouldn't be any big deal to piss on the bodies of Nazis or Japs back then.


The situational difference being our Nation was at war with the Japanese and Germans and we all had cause to fear those enemies.  And because fear is the essential precursor of hatred all of us hated the Japs and the Germans as much as our troops did.  Whereas the enemies of today's troops in the Middle East, much like the enemies of our troops in Vietnam, are mere abstractions to us here at home.  We have no cause to fear them.  To us these pajama-clad abstractions are equivalent to characters in an adventure novel or a movie.  And the public indignation which will flow from this pissing incident will derive from equally casual piety.  

Of course, what these Marines did was done in our names.  And that is true because we allowed the likes of George W. Bush, Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Colin Powell to get over on us and bring it about.   There is just as much justification for pissing on the corpses of those persons, whoever and whatever they were, as there is for our being in that country in the first place.   And whose fault is it that we are there?


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## ABikerSailor

MikeK said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Several things here.........
> 
> Yes.  Our military is highly trained and very efficient.  Yes.  Our military is trained to follow the Geneva conventions and other rules when it comes to war.
> 
> These Marines pissing on the corpses of people they've just killed goes against good order and discipline, as well as shows them to be lacking in a certain amount of discipline.
> 
> Combine that with the fact that what they did is now posted on YouTube and is visible to the world, it reflects BADLY on the rest of the Marines and the US Military as a result, because it tells the world that our military is just a bunch of undisciplined thugs.
> 
> Me personally?  As a 20 year U.S. Navy veteran who has been in 4 combat zones, what these Marines did was not right and they should be prosecuted, not only for what they did, but for the unwanted attention that it has generated.
> 
> According to the news this morning, they've figured out the unit and are fast closing in on who these Marines were.  I hope they are given a courts martial and are immediately discharged with a BCD or lower.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not proud of what these guys did, either.  But some consideration must be given to the circumstances our government has exposed our troops to in the Middle East for longer than World War Two.  The best term to apply to what is and has been going on over there is organized madness.
> 
> It's not as if these troops were flown directly from their home towns and normal lifestyles into that environment within a 24 hour time frame.  Some of them have been there for years, living and breathing it.  I don't know about you, but because of my relatively sane daily experience I am incapable of understanding the kind of emotional pressures these snipers have had to deal with for weeks, months, some of them years.
> 
> I was in the Marine Corps.  Fortunately during peacetime.  But I know what Parris Island does to the mind and I am quite familiar with the primary objective of Marine Corps training after boot camp and ITR, which is to transform the normal personality into one which is perfectly comfortable with the motivation to kill.  As I've later learned, and as any behaviorist will attest, that is a rather basic definition of insanity.
> 
> These men have been killing other humans, presumably their _designated_ enemies on a daily basis, possibly for months.  Imagine doing that.  Now try to imagine what thinking of other humans only as _targets_ would do to your personality.
> 
> Pissing on corpses is no big deal to men whose daily experience is producing corpses.  And those officers who will prosecute these Marines need to be mindful of that.  What those Marines did is crazy.  Because they are crazy.  But they didn't start out that way.
Click to expand...


Sorry, but to my way of thinking it shows a SEVERE lack of discipline and order.  I don't care what kind of situations they are thrown into, they should keep their military bearing.

Yes, their deployment schedule should be taken into account, yes, those Marines should also be given psych evaluations which should also be taken into account.

But even with those excuses, it still doesn't wash.  

And, I consider this to be a WORSE fuckup than Abu Grahib, because at Abu Grahib, the people there were just a bunch of reservists who probably didn't know any better, but these Marines?  No.  They are active duty AND probably get the same Code of Conduct briefing that everyone else in the military gets annually.

Like I said, give 'em a courts martial (Leon Panetta even stated he wanted to be part of the investigation so it will probably be a General Courts Martial), take the evidence into account (hey.........if part of it was stress induced, it could give the military a better way to deal with the troops) and then kick 'em the fuck out of my military.


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## Dr Grump

Anybody who doesn't think that these guys are douches, are douches. The American military is something that others should look up to, not down at..


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## ABikerSailor

Dr Grump said:


> Anybody who doesn't think that these guys are douches are douches. The American military is something that others should look up to, not down at..



I don't think these guys are douches, I FUCKING KNOW IT!!!!

Which is why I want them to face a courts martial and get the fuck out of my military.


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## old navy

These Marines are fucking idiots.


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## Ringel05

Another in the win column for the Taliban and their allies in the propaganda war.


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## The Gadfly

ABikerSailor said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Several things here.........
> 
> Yes.  Our military is highly trained and very efficient.  Yes.  Our military is trained to follow the Geneva conventions and other rules when it comes to war.
> 
> These Marines pissing on the corpses of people they've just killed goes against good order and discipline, as well as shows them to be lacking in a certain amount of discipline.
> 
> Combine that with the fact that what they did is now posted on YouTube and is visible to the world, it reflects BADLY on the rest of the Marines and the US Military as a result, because it tells the world that our military is just a bunch of undisciplined thugs.
> 
> Me personally?  As a 20 year U.S. Navy veteran who has been in 4 combat zones, what these Marines did was not right and they should be prosecuted, not only for what they did, but for the unwanted attention that it has generated.
> 
> According to the news this morning, they've figured out the unit and are fast closing in on who these Marines were.  I hope they are given a courts martial and are immediately discharged with a BCD or lower.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not proud of what these guys did, either.  But some consideration must be given to the circumstances our government has exposed our troops to in the Middle East for longer than World War Two.  The best term to apply to what is and has been going on over there is organized madness.
> 
> It's not as if these troops were flown directly from their home towns and normal lifestyles into that environment within a 24 hour time frame.  Some of them have been there for years, living and breathing it.  I don't know about you, but because of my relatively sane daily experience I am incapable of understanding the kind of emotional pressures these snipers have had to deal with for weeks, months, some of them years.
> 
> I was in the Marine Corps.  Fortunately during peacetime.  But I know what Parris Island does to the mind and I am quite familiar with the primary objective of Marine Corps training after boot camp and ITR, which is to transform the normal personality into one which is perfectly comfortable with the motivation to kill.  As I've later learned, and as any behaviorist will attest, that is a rather basic definition of insanity.
> 
> These men have been killing other humans, presumably their _designated_ enemies on a daily basis, possibly for months.  Imagine doing that.  Now try to imagine what thinking of other humans only as _targets_ would do to your personality.
> 
> Pissing on corpses is no big deal to men whose daily experience is producing corpses.  And those officers who will prosecute these Marines need to be mindful of that.  What those Marines did is crazy.  Because they are crazy.  But they didn't start out that way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, but to my way of thinking it shows a SEVERE lack of discipline and order.  I don't care what kind of situations they are thrown into, they should keep their military bearing.
> 
> Yes, their deployment schedule should be taken into account, yes, those Marines should also be given psych evaluations which should also be taken into account.
> 
> But even with those excuses, it still doesn't wash.
> 
> And, I consider this to be a WORSE fuckup than Abu Grahib, because at Abu Grahib, the people there were just a bunch of reservists who probably didn't know any better, but these Marines?  No.  They are active duty AND probably get the same Code of Conduct briefing that everyone else in the military gets annually.
> 
> Like I said, give 'em a courts martial (Leon Panetta even stated he wanted to be part of the investigation so it will probably be a General Courts Martial), take the evidence into account (hey.........if part of it was stress induced, it could give the military a better way to deal with the troops) and then kick 'em the fuck out of my military.
Click to expand...


Can I ask you just one question? Have YOU ever been in infantry combat?  I ask, because it seems to me that you are passing judgement from the point of view of someone who has never had to kill an enemy, on a daily basis, up close and personal, where you can see their faces. Ever slit a man's throat? Ever stick a bayonet in someone? Ever looked at someone through a scope, put the crosshairs right in the middle of that face, and pulled the trigger? I have; and that is what these men are doing, every day. When you do that, you hate the enemy; you fear him, you despise him, and in your eyes, he is not a human being, just a target. I don't recall, when I was in Vietnam, getting any orders about pissing on dead Cong or NVA, and I don't recall any mention of or lectures on "human rights violations". About the most I remember is being told to "watch it" if and when there were any reporters around. I do remember "death cards" being placed on enemy bodies for them to find, among other things; we *wanted* to let them know who did it. I apologize for absolutely NONE of that. I hated the nasty little sonsofbitches, killed as many as I could and would have gladly killed more. My men felt the same way, and whatever they did, they were smart enough not to document it, and I was smart enough to not "see" it.

I suppose the standards are different now, and I doubt I'd fit in with the new, PC, sensitive to civilian and non-combatant military sensibilities military. I understand they are proud to have gotten rid of us old "throat slitters" and maybe it's for the best. All I know, is that expecting a grunt to turn his feelings about his enemy on and off like flipping a switch, does not square with the human emotional factors inherent in ground combat, in my humble opinion. It's OK though; I'm sure the permanent civilians and staff officers and others who have never been shot at, know a lot more about infantry combat than I ever will.

For what it's worth, I think I'd confiscate those video cameras for the duration, and give those guys a reprimand and a week's worth of extra duty, for poor judgment in taping something which should have remained private. Of course, in this environment, they will probably get canned anyway, just to placate public opinion. One more thing; what article of the UCMJ prescribes the punishment for pissing on an enemy corpse? I'm not sure I've ever seen that one, but I'm sure some creative JAG officer can find something.


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## Sunshine

> "Islam gives values and respect to every human being," regardless of which religion the individual follows, said Islamic scholar Mawlawi Enayatullah Baligh. "The value and respect is the same for an alive person and a dead body. Even the body of your enemy in the battleground is respectable in Islam."



Marines ID two of the men in urination video - CNN.com

They might try telling that to Nick Berg's family:




> Nicholas Evan Berg
> Born April 2, 1978(1978-04-02)
> Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
> Died May 7, 2004(2004-05-07) (aged 26)
> 
> Nicholas Evan "Nick" Berg (April 2, 1978  May 7, 2004) was an American businessman who went to Iraq after the US invasion of Iraq. He was abducted and later beheaded according to a video released in May 2004 by Islamist militants. The CIA claimed that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi personally beheaded Berg.[1]



Nick Berg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Firehorse

They may have been OWS people, saw that pissing on things other then toilets gets one called a 'hero' and looked up to and thought 'WTF, maybe I can be a hero pissing here'


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## The Gadfly

Sunshine said:


> "Islam gives values and respect to every human being," regardless of which religion the individual follows, said Islamic scholar Mawlawi Enayatullah Baligh. "The value and respect is the same for an alive person and a dead body. Even the body of your enemy in the battleground is respectable in Islam."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marines ID two of the men in urination video - CNN.com
> 
> They might try telling that to Nick Berg's family:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nicholas Evan Berg
> Born April 2, 1978(1978-04-02)
> Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
> Died May 7, 2004(2004-05-07) (aged 26)
> 
> Nicholas Evan "Nick" Berg (April 2, 1978  May 7, 2004) was an American businessman who went to Iraq after the US invasion of Iraq. He was abducted and later beheaded according to a video released in May 2004 by Islamist militants. The CIA claimed that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi personally beheaded Berg.[1]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nick Berg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


So do Buddhists, which most Vietnamese are. Didn't seem to have much effect on how they treated OUR dead, or anyone they captured. And people wonder why we were inclined to reciprocate..... Once upon a time, we replied to savages in the language they seemed to understand. How terribly insensitive of us! /sarcasm


----------



## Sunshine

Crackerjack said:


> A stern talking to is definitely in order.



And nothing more!  



The Infidel said:


> I say
> 
> 
> 
> *WHO GIVES A FLYING FUCK??
> *
> If thats all they did... good for them




Agree



SayMyName said:


> I see this two ways. We send people off to kill other people, but we can't urinate on their corpse, which most likely was done by these Marines to "psych out" some nearby enemy supporters watching them.
> 
> We can also look at this just as the Marine Corps spokesman stated, that it does not reflect the core values that are held. In other words, discipline, and the perception that we are better than the enemy, must be maintained.
> 
> I *would give them a good talking to for being dumb by getting filmed, *then order them to do better in the future. No extra duty assigned as a consequence.



Cameras should not be allowed and reporters should not be embedded.  I know they must have felt like this was a real victory for them, but do our fighting forces really know how little support they can have on the home front?  I recall Vietnam.  Vividly.





High_Gravity said:


> So?



So mote it be.  



uscitizen said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SayMyName said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see this two ways. We send people off to kill other people, but we can't urinate on their corpse, which most likely was done by these Marines to "psych out" some nearby enemy supporters watching them.
> 
> [...]
> 
> 
> 
> _"Psych out"_  What exactly does that mean?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Make em want to kill more Americans I would think to be the outcome.
Click to expand...


Projection.  It makes YOU want it to make them want to kill more Americans.



High_Gravity said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Several things here.........
> 
> Yes.  Our military is highly trained and very efficient.  Yes.  Our military is trained to follow the Geneva conventions and other rules when it comes to war.
> 
> These Marines pissing on the corpses of people they've just killed goes against good order and discipline, as well as shows them to be lacking in a certain amount of discipline.
> 
> Combine that with the fact that what they did is now posted on YouTube and is visible to the world, it reflects BADLY on the rest of the Marines and the US Military as a result, because it tells the world that our military is just a bunch of undisciplined thugs.
> 
> Me personally?  As a 20 year U.S. Navy veteran who has been in 4 combat zones, what these Marines did was not right and they should be prosecuted, not only for what they did, but for the unwanted attention that it has generated.
> 
> *According to the news this morning, they've figured out the unit and are fast closing in on who these Marines were.  I hope they are given a courts martial and are immediately discharged with a BCD or lower.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's probably what's going to happen, this is all over the web now and heads have to roll. Me personally I am more curious about these Marines, how many deployments have they been on?  alot of these guys have been on multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan and are stressed the fuck out from all the combat they are seeing.
Click to expand...




So you would decapitate someone for pissing on a corpse?

.


----------



## Sunshine

The Gadfly said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Islam gives values and respect to every human being," regardless of which religion the individual follows, said Islamic scholar Mawlawi Enayatullah Baligh. "The value and respect is the same for an alive person and a dead body. Even the body of your enemy in the battleground is respectable in Islam."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marines ID two of the men in urination video - CNN.com
> 
> They might try telling that to Nick Berg's family:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nicholas Evan Berg
> Born April 2, 1978(1978-04-02)
> Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
> Died May 7, 2004(2004-05-07) (aged 26)
> 
> Nicholas Evan "Nick" Berg (April 2, 1978  May 7, 2004) was an American businessman who went to Iraq after the US invasion of Iraq. He was abducted and later beheaded according to a video released in May 2004 by Islamist militants. The CIA claimed that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi personally beheaded Berg.[1]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nick Berg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So do Buddhists, which most Vietnamese are. Didn't seem to have much effect on how they treated OUR dead, or anyone they captured. And people wonder why we were inclined to reciprocate..... Once upon a time, we replied to savages in the language they seemed to understand. How terribly insensitive of us! /sarcasm
Click to expand...


I am Vietnam era.  Believe me, I know!


----------



## old navy

The Gadfly said:


> One more thing; what article of the UCMJ prescribes the punishment for pissing on an enemy corpse? I'm not sure I've ever seen that one, but I'm sure some creative JAG officer can find something.



They will probably be charged under Article 134 of the UCMJ.


----------



## Sunshine

Prevail said:


> I only see one problem with this whole situation...if your going to do something stupid don't record it, and if you do record it, definitely don't let it make its way to youtube.
> 
> Young soldiers have trouble separating killing from emotion.  To bring themselves to a point where they are able to take the life of another human being, they have to dehumanize the individual.  This is done in a variety of ways, starting in basic training, and continuing after they get to their unit.  Right or wrong, it helps these young men cope with what they are doing.
> 
> Those who have been in combat know that the humor which emerges from it is dark and twisted.  This is done out of necessity, because the norms and standards of civilized society don't hold up to the horrors of war.  So things like this happen.  I hate to break it to the armchair generals out there, but when you send 19 year old kids to a place like this, and train them to kill efficiently and without remorse, you cant expect them to turn around and treat their "targets" as human.
> 
> I'm not excusing it by any means, what I'm saying is that the civilian world (and the non-combat arms side of the military for that matter) is simply getting a glimpse into the dark mind of a young Infantryman.  I'm not saying that all of us are like that, or that we have all done this.  What I am saying is that your standards of civilization and humanity would be a serious impediment to the goal of "locating, closing with, and neutralizing the enemy".
> 
> So, speaking as a former young Infantryman myself, the American public should take this as a chance to see the kind of emotional angst that these young men go through.  These are your sons, and friends.  Instead of condemning the act, consider what they have been through that would bring them to do it.  Just imagine the frustration of losing a friend to an IED, and knowing that you possess the ability to unleash the fury of God himself upon the attacker, but he is nowhere to be found.  Then, when you finally catch up to the bad guy, the bomb maker who has killed your friends and plagued your nightmares for months, do you really believe you would treat his corpse with all the respect of a saint?



I've never been in combat.  But I've worked 23 years in a field that is filled with death and violence, and the worst of humankind.  Gallow humor is how we deal with thing.  Remember M*A*S*H?  Everyone thought it OH so cool.  But the reality is it is OH so much worse.  I would never talk the talk with a non nurse, or even a student nurse before a certain point.


----------



## Sunshine

High_Gravity said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's probably what's going to happen, this is all over the web now and heads have to roll. Me personally I am more curious about these Marines, how many deployments have they been on?  alot of these guys have been on multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan and are stressed the fuck out from all the combat they are seeing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is why I said courts martial, so that kind of evidence can also be taken into consideration.
> 
> But after the black eye that they've given my military, I don't want 'em to be a part of it anymore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know man, after 10 years of this war I think its starting to change us. If I read a story like this before 9/11 I would have found it absolutely horrible, now 10 years into this war I see this video and can hardly blink, and I can even understand why the Marines would do this, although I do agree it is wrong. Things like and the stories about the Air Force hacking off body parts to make bodies fit into caskets, dropping off cremated Soldiers remains into garbage dumps etc, it just tells me we are losing our humanity with this war, these are all things that would absolutely horrify us befor 9/11, now we can read this, maybe condemn it, and than go about our day like nothing. It's fucked up.
Click to expand...


I don't agree.  Nurses and doctors see horrible things every day.  We deal by using black humor, but we don't lose our humanity.  And I think if you follow me, I stand up for what I believe to be the right thing.  I've taken plenty of hits on here for it too and not posted one single whine thread!

We are at war.  It would seem the enemy doesn't have the technology to do to our fighting men what they do to themselves unknowing, of course, that there are so many Americans who are agaisnt them.

Cameras shouldn't have been in Abu Graibe and they shouldn't be where these guys are!


----------



## logical4u

uscitizen said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SayMyName said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see this two ways. We send people off to kill other people, but we can't urinate on their corpse, which most likely was done by these Marines to "psych out" some nearby enemy supporters watching them.
> 
> [...]
> 
> 
> 
> _"Psych out"_  What exactly does that mean?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Make em want to kill more Americans I would think to be the outcome.
Click to expand...


Not that I particularly agree with those actions, but I do understand them; the incidents that stopped islam's march were even worse, historically.  In the past, it was the only way to stop islam from killing, converting or subjugating others' lands.  Today, the "civilized" are allowing themselves to be systematically destroyed by people with ruthless ideologies that punish the productive and the generous while elevating the immoral and destroyers.  Just an observation....


----------



## The Gadfly

old navy said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> One more thing; what article of the UCMJ prescribes the punishment for pissing on an enemy corpse? I'm not sure I've ever seen that one, but I'm sure some creative JAG officer can find something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They will probably be charged under Article 134 of the UCMJ.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I'm sure it can be made to fit clause 1 or clause 2 of that article somehow; I'm not sure that SHOULD happen, but in today's climate, it likely will. I feel conflicted on this one; I've got little patience with the kind of gross stupidity that led them to film this, but no great problem with the act itself. Hell, that's been done for ages; back during the American revolution, after the battle of King's Mountain, a number of Patriot militiamen relieved themselves on British Major Patrick Ferguson's corpse; I can't say I've ever seen anything decrying THAT.


----------



## logical4u

MikeK said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess we are lucky that it was almost impossible for a member of the Military to make a movie much less take a photograph of combat situations during WW2 but then again it wouldn't be any big deal to piss on the bodies of Nazis or Japs back then.
> 
> 
> 
> The situational difference being our Nation was at war with the Japanese and Germans and we all had cause to fear those enemies.  And because fear is the essential precursor of hatred all of us hated the Japs and the Germans as much as our troops did.  Whereas the enemies of today's troops in the Middle East, much like the enemies of our troops in Vietnam, are mere abstractions to us here at home.  We have no cause to fear them.  To us these pajama-clad abstractions are equivalent to characters in an adventure novel or a movie.  And the public indignation which will flow from this pissing incident will derive from equally casual piety.
> 
> Of course, what these Marines did was done in our names.  And that is true because we allowed the likes of George W. Bush, Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Colin Powell to get over on us and bring it about.   There is just as much justification for pissing on the corpses of those persons, whoever and whatever they were, as there is for our being in that country in the first place.   And whose fault is it that we are there?
Click to expand...



How many Americans need to die in their everyday schedule by bombing before you say "that is it"?  Please give us a number, because islam has been murdering westerners and Jews for centuries, and treating them like honorable people has just gotten more people murdered.


----------



## logical4u

Firehorse said:


> They may have been OWS people, saw that pissing on things other then toilets gets one called a 'hero' and looked up to and thought 'WTF, maybe I can be a hero pissing here'


----------



## uscitizen

logical4u said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"Psych out"_  What exactly does that mean?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Make em want to kill more Americans I would think to be the outcome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not that I particularly agree with those actions, but I do understand them; the incidents that stopped islam's march were even worse, historically.  In the past, it was the only way to stop islam from killing, converting or subjugating others' lands.  Today, the "civilized" are allowing themselves to be systematically destroyed by people with ruthless ideologies that punish the productive and the generous while elevating the immoral and destroyers.  Just an observation....
Click to expand...


Yep like God Ordering the Israelites to slaughter all women and children who did not flee before them.

All religion sucks when they use it for power and conquest.


----------



## uscitizen

The Gadfly said:


> old navy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> One more thing; what article of the UCMJ prescribes the punishment for pissing on an enemy corpse? I'm not sure I've ever seen that one, but I'm sure some creative JAG officer can find something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They will probably be charged under Article 134 of the UCMJ.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, I'm sure it can be made to fit clause 1 or clause 2 of that article somehow; I'm not sure that SHOULD happen, but in today's climate, it likely will. I feel conflicted on this one; I've got little patience with the kind of gross stupidity that led them to film this, but no great problem with the act itself. Hell, that's been done for ages; back during the American revolution, after the battle of King's Mountain, a number of Patriot militiamen relieved themselves on British Major Patrick Ferguson's corpse; I can't say I've ever seen anything decrying THAT.
Click to expand...


Thanks for that info.  They did not teach it to me in school US history class.
ntw this was a time when beheading was an accepted western form of execution.


----------



## The Gadfly

Prevail said:


> I only see one problem with this whole situation...if your going to do something stupid don't record it, and if you do record it, definitely don't let it make its way to youtube.
> 
> Young soldiers have trouble separating killing from emotion.  To bring themselves to a point where they are able to take the life of another human being, they have to dehumanize the individual.  This is done in a variety of ways, starting in basic training, and continuing after they get to their unit.  Right or wrong, it helps these young men cope with what they are doing.
> 
> Those who have been in combat know that the humor which emerges from it is dark and twisted.  This is done out of necessity, because the norms and standards of civilized society don't hold up to the horrors of war.  So things like this happen.  I hate to break it to the armchair generals out there, but when you send 19 year old kids to a place like this, and train them to kill efficiently and without remorse, you cant expect them to turn around and treat their "targets" as human.
> 
> I'm not excusing it by any means, what I'm saying is that the civilian world (and the non-combat arms side of the military for that matter) is simply getting a glimpse into the dark mind of a young Infantryman.  I'm not saying that all of us are like that, or that we have all done this.  What I am saying is that your standards of civilization and humanity would be a serious impediment to the goal of "locating, closing with, and neutralizing the enemy".
> 
> So, speaking as a former young Infantryman myself, the American public should take this as a chance to see the kind of emotional angst that these young men go through.  These are your sons, and friends.  Instead of condemning the act, consider what they have been through that would bring them to do it.  Just imagine the frustration of losing a friend to an IED, and knowing that you possess the ability to unleash the fury of God himself upon the attacker, but he is nowhere to be found.  Then, when you finally catch up to the bad guy, the bomb maker who has killed your friends and plagued your nightmares for months, do you really believe you would treat his corpse with all the respect of a saint?



Anyone who has ever been a combat grunt knows this. Unfortunately, it's difficult for civilians, and even non=ground combat military personnel to fully comprehend. The level of brutality that is commonplace on a battlefield is almost incomprehensible to anyone who has not experienced it firsthand; even the tamest of it is so far beyond their concept of anything remotely normal. I swear for most of them, I really believe it is better, if they don't know (not the details, anyway). Hell, I wish I didn't know, and you probably do too.


----------



## logical4u

uscitizen said:


> logical4u said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Make em want to kill more Americans I would think to be the outcome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not that I particularly agree with those actions, but I do understand them; the incidents that stopped islam's march were even worse, historically.  In the past, it was the only way to stop islam from killing, converting or subjugating others' lands.  Today, the "civilized" are allowing themselves to be systematically destroyed by people with ruthless ideologies that punish the productive and the generous while elevating the immoral and destroyers.  Just an observation....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep like God Ordering the Israelites to slaughter all women and children who did not flee before them.
> 
> All religion sucks when they use it for power and conquest.
Click to expand...


And yet, not one harsh word against those that perpetuate your worst nightmare of religion?  Instead bash the religion that gave us modern day conveniences, modern medicine, cleaner environments, easier transportation, and raised the average standard of living for the entire world.  Why don't you join Jerimiah Wright's congregation?


----------



## Liability

Taliban corpses get pissed on and we are supposed to care because ....

uhm ....

it's a -- errr -- kind of ... that is ... ahhhh ....


----------



## The Gadfly

uscitizen said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> old navy said:
> 
> 
> 
> They will probably be charged under Article 134 of the UCMJ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I'm sure it can be made to fit clause 1 or clause 2 of that article somehow; I'm not sure that SHOULD happen, but in today's climate, it likely will. I feel conflicted on this one; I've got little patience with the kind of gross stupidity that led them to film this, but no great problem with the act itself. Hell, that's been done for ages; back during the American revolution, after the battle of King's Mountain, a number of Patriot militiamen relieved themselves on British Major Patrick Ferguson's corpse; I can't say I've ever seen anything decrying THAT.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for that info.  They did not teach it to me in school US history class.
> ntw this was a time when beheading was an accepted western form of execution.
Click to expand...

Well, you're a bit late on the "beheading" part (except for the French Revolution). The British and Americans usually preferred hanging. That bit of history IS accurate, according to the best first hand accounts we have of the battle and its aftermath. The Revolution as fought in the South, especially the Carolinas, is often not taught in great detail; mostly partisan warfare, and very nasty; some of it not so unlike what we saw in Vietnam, in a qualitative if not quantitative sense.


----------



## uscitizen

logical4u said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> logical4u said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not that I particularly agree with those actions, but I do understand them; the incidents that stopped islam's march were even worse, historically.  In the past, it was the only way to stop islam from killing, converting or subjugating others' lands.  Today, the "civilized" are allowing themselves to be systematically destroyed by people with ruthless ideologies that punish the productive and the generous while elevating the immoral and destroyers.  Just an observation....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep like God Ordering the Israelites to slaughter all women and children who did not flee before them.
> 
> All religion sucks when they use it for power and conquest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet, not one harsh word against those that perpetuate your worst nightmare of religion?  Instead bash the religion that gave us modern day conveniences, modern medicine, cleaner environments, easier transportation, and raised the average standard of living for the entire world.  Why don't you join Jerimiah Wright's congregation?
Click to expand...


Why?
I do not believe in any supreme being/god or an after life of any type.


----------



## uscitizen

The Gadfly said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I'm sure it can be made to fit clause 1 or clause 2 of that article somehow; I'm not sure that SHOULD happen, but in today's climate, it likely will. I feel conflicted on this one; I've got little patience with the kind of gross stupidity that led them to film this, but no great problem with the act itself. Hell, that's been done for ages; back during the American revolution, after the battle of King's Mountain, a number of Patriot militiamen relieved themselves on British Major Patrick Ferguson's corpse; I can't say I've ever seen anything decrying THAT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for that info.  They did not teach it to me in school US history class.
> ntw this was a time when beheading was an accepted western form of execution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, you're a bit late on the "beheading" part (except for the French Revolution). The British and Americans usually preferred hanging. That bit of history IS accurate, according to the best first hand accounts we have of the battle and its aftermath. The Revolution as fought in the South, especially the Carolinas, is often not taught in great detail; mostly partisan warfare, and very nasty; some of it not so unlike what we saw in Vietnam, in a qualitative if not quantitative sense.
Click to expand...


Another interesting point is that according to the civilized europeans thos Americans fought like barbarians.
Shooting from ambush, not standing up and fighting in orderly lines.


----------



## The Gadfly

uscitizen said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for that info.  They did not teach it to me in school US history class.
> ntw this was a time when beheading was an accepted western form of execution.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you're a bit late on the "beheading" part (except for the French Revolution). The British and Americans usually preferred hanging. That bit of history IS accurate, according to the best first hand accounts we have of the battle and its aftermath. The Revolution as fought in the South, especially the Carolinas, is often not taught in great detail; mostly partisan warfare, and very nasty; some of it not so unlike what we saw in Vietnam, in a qualitative if not quantitative sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another interesting point is that according to the civilized europeans thos Americans fought like barbarians.
> Shooting from ambush, not standing up and fighting in orderly lines.
Click to expand...

 That part of it was a backwoods war; most of the worst of it was between Patriot and Tory partisan bands; not exactly "fair", but as we both know, war never is, really; it's hardly a gentleman's game (if indeed it ever was). Unfortunately we tend to like our history nice, neat, mythologized and sanitized, rather than the way it really was. I know a lot of people would like to, but we really can't ever clean up war, can't take the essential ugliness out of it. It's an awful business; sometimes necessary, but still awful.


----------



## MaryL

Some grunt with a camera and a lack of discretion is NOT something new.  Technology doesn&#8217;t improve the species. Back in 1978, I had a co-worker share a dirty little secret with me. It came in the form of Polaroids taken during a war crime he and his fellow platoon mates committed during the Vietnam war. It was disgusting.  What do  can I do with that? My father didn't have a cheap camera and you tube account  when he was wounded in the pacific in 1943, either. Somewhere, I think there is a balance between the good soldiers and the  ones that were wounded mentally and have no discretion.


----------



## Salt Jones

whitehall said:


> I guess we are lucky that it was almost impossible for a member of the Military to make a movie much less take a photograph of combat situations during WW2 but then again it wouldn't be any big deal to piss on the bodies of Nazis or Japs back then.



Or black, Hispanic or Jewish Americans.


----------



## Salt Jones

It's not the war that made this happen. I've seen Marines, in peacetime, wipe their penises on the mouth piece of a fellow Marines hydration pack and then laugh when he found out. I've seen them injure fellow Marines giving them "blood Stripes" when they got promoted. I've seen them duck tape a fellow Marine to a chair, tape a sling to the chair and hoist the taped Marine about 35 feet to the top of an aircraft hanger and leave him there. I've seen a Marine shit in a pizza box and deliver the "pizza" to his unsuspecting fellow Marines.

If they do that to each other, why is it so hard to fathom them pissing on a dead Taliban?


----------



## Sunshine

Salt Jones said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess we are lucky that it was almost impossible for a member of the Military to make a movie much less take a photograph of combat situations during WW2 but then again it wouldn't be any big deal to piss on the bodies of Nazis or Japs back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or black, Hispanic or Jewish Americans.
Click to expand...


One of the pissers was black.


----------



## Salt Jones

Sunshine said:


> Salt Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess we are lucky that it was almost impossible for a member of the Military to make a movie much less take a photograph of combat situations during WW2 but then again it wouldn't be any big deal to piss on the bodies of Nazis or Japs back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or black, Hispanic or Jewish Americans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One of the pissers was black.
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6lR3ZGFwvI]U.S. Marines Urinate on Taliban Corpses (Warning: GRAPHIC FOOTAGE) 11-JAN-2012 - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...


So, Malcolm X's, along with thousands of other blacks, killers were black.


----------



## eots

salt jones said:


> it's not the war that made this happen. I've seen marines, in peacetime, wipe their penises on the mouth piece of a fellow marines hydration pack and then laugh when he found out. I've seen them injure fellow marines giving them "blood stripes" when they got promoted. I've seen them duck tape a fellow marine to a chair, tape a sling to the chair and hoist the taped marine about 35 feet to the top of an aircraft hanger and leave him there. I've seen a marine shit in a pizza box and deliver the "pizza" to his unsuspecting fellow marines.
> 
> If they do that to each other, why is it so hard to fathom them pissing on a dead taliban?



Wow does that ever sound...well..._.gay_


----------



## Synthaholic

This is a failure of training.  These men were put in the field before learning what it is to be Marines.


----------



## nitroz

My views are controversial, but don't fret)


Well, I applaud the Marines.
Islam has done nothing but taken innocent lives by the most brutal means possible. Stoning to death, Beheaddings with hand knives, Lashes to death, Public hangings, Dragging corpses through the streets while partying, etc. And then you WANT to cater to Islam aster 9/11 and such violence directed towards others? That's absurd.


Of course heads will roll. They started the mess in the first place but other than because we are not muslim. And now they have ok'd the making of the Taliban embassy in Afghanistan's capital, after they sent suicide bombers to kill everyone at OUR embassy and then blow the damn place up, helped Al Qeada with the 9/11 bombings which killed 3,000 innocent people, killed countless service members, kurdered many innocent civillans over in the middle east for no reason, and this is all so they can have power and create an islamic state so MORE can suffer!


DO *NOT* CATER TO ISLAM, THINKING THINGS WILL GET BETTER!!!
Let this be shown all over to show what really happens when they "die a hero". 72 virgins my ass. You are dead and will get pissed on.




The message should be "FUCK YOU DIRTY SCUMBAGS! WE ARE GOING TO FINISH WHAT YOU STARTED ONCE AND FOR ALL!". Not "well, you murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent people for no reason. I guess you can open up your office to help recruit more people to kill more innocent people."

Deplorable acts my ass. They had it coming!


----------



## Salt Jones

nitroz said:


> My views are controversial, but don't fret)
> 
> 
> Well, I applaud the Marines.
> Islam has done nothing but taken innocent lives by the most brutal means possible. Stoning to death, Beheaddings with hand knives, Lashes to death, Public hangings, Dragging corpses through the streets while partying, etc. And then you WANT to cater to Islam aster 9/11 and such violence directed towards others? That's absurd.
> 
> 
> Of course heads will roll. They started the mess in the first place but other than because we are not muslim. And now they have ok'd the making of the Taliban embassy in Afghanistan's capital, after they sent suicide bombers to kill everyone at OUR embassy and then blow the damn place up, helped Al Qeada with the 9/11 bombings which killed 3,000 innocent people, killed countless service members, kurdered many innocent civillans over in the middle east for no reason, and this is all so they can have power and create an islamic state so MORE can suffer!
> 
> 
> DO *NOT* CATER TO ISLAM, THINKING THINGS WILL GET BETTER!!!
> Let this be shown all over to show what really happens when they "die a hero". 72 virgins my ass. You are dead and will get pissed on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The message should be "FUCK YOU DIRTY SCUMBAGS! WE ARE GOING TO FINISH WHAT YOU STARTED ONCE AND FOR ALL!". Not "well, you murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent people for no reason. I guess you can open up your office to help recruit more people to kill more innocent people."
> 
> Deplorable acts my ass. They had it coming!



Who, Christians?


----------



## Firehorse

Throwing acid in young womans face = Totally Fine

Pissing on dead someone that tried to kill you = Totally Bad

Oh yeah, I Totally Understand what Islam is all about


----------



## Firehorse

The marines that did this violated OUR sociaties laws against desiceation of dead bodies. There are likely reasons for this (they were trying to kill said marines before they became dead) and as such the marines that did the pissing should get a light penalty (extra duty, extra watch, loss of 'smoke and coke' for a few days ... But nothing more. The marine that posted the video on YouTube is in dire need of a bunk party to ensure that he doesn't do anything that stupid again.

The terrorist that complain that it's the crime of the century ... I don't give a flying fudge about


----------



## Ancient lion

A Marine official said Thursday that the four seen in the video were members of *the 3rd Battalion, 2nd Marines*, which returned to its home base in North Carolina last fall after a tour in Afghanistan. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because a criminal investigation is under way.

The Marine Corps has *identified two *of the four Marines in an Internet video that shows them urinating on the dead bodies of Taliban fighters in Afghanistan.



> After a video surfaced on youtube of U.S. military personnel urinating on the dead bodies of Afghans, many individuals and organizations objected to such behavior.
> 
> Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said such behavior is &#8220;entirely inappropriate for members of the United States military.  I have seen the footage, and I find the behavior depicted in it utterly deplorable. I condemn it in the strongest possible terms.  Those found to have engaged in such conduct will be held accountable to the fullest extent.&#8221;
> 
> Carsten Jacobson, a spokesman for Nato&#8217;s international security assistance force in Afghanistan said such an act was &#8216;despicable&#8217; and &#8216;grossly against all the moral values the coalition forces stand for&#8217;.
> 
> Gen. Jim Amos, the Marine Corps commandant said  &#8220;The behavior depicted in the video is wholly inconsistent with the high standards of conduct and warrior ethos that we have demonstrated throughout our history.  Accordingly, late yesterday I requested that the Naval Criminal Investigative Service pull together a team of their very best agents and immediately assign them responsibility to thoroughly investigate every aspect of the filmed event.&#8221;


The American Muslim (TAM)


----------



## logical4u

uscitizen said:


> logical4u said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep like God Ordering the Israelites to slaughter all women and children who did not flee before them.
> 
> All religion sucks when they use it for power and conquest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet, not one harsh word against those that perpetuate your worst nightmare of religion?  Instead bash the religion that gave us modern day conveniences, modern medicine, cleaner environments, easier transportation, and raised the average standard of living for the entire world.  Why don't you join Jerimiah Wright's congregation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why?
> I do not believe in any supreme being/god or an after life of any type.
Click to expand...


Yes, that was my point.  Not one harsh word against "Allah", yet the Christian Lord, no kind word.  The Christians that are the most charitable of all the people in the world = bad.  Islamists = natural = good.  The silence of the condemnation of islamist practices is deafening.


----------



## High_Gravity

Sunshine said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is why I said courts martial, so that kind of evidence can also be taken into consideration.
> 
> But after the black eye that they've given my military, I don't want 'em to be a part of it anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know man, after 10 years of this war I think its starting to change us. If I read a story like this before 9/11 I would have found it absolutely horrible, now 10 years into this war I see this video and can hardly blink, and I can even understand why the Marines would do this, although I do agree it is wrong. Things like and the stories about the Air Force hacking off body parts to make bodies fit into caskets, dropping off cremated Soldiers remains into garbage dumps etc, it just tells me we are losing our humanity with this war, these are all things that would absolutely horrify us befor 9/11, now we can read this, maybe condemn it, and than go about our day like nothing. It's fucked up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't agree.  Nurses and doctors see horrible things every day.  We deal by using black humor, but we don't lose our humanity.  And I think if you follow me, I stand up for what I believe to be the right thing.  I've taken plenty of hits on here for it too and not posted one single whine thread!
> 
> We are at war.  It would seem the enemy doesn't have the technology to do to our fighting men what they do to themselves unknowing, of course, that there are so many Americans who are agaisnt them.
> 
> Cameras shouldn't have been in Abu Graibe and they shouldn't be where these guys are!
Click to expand...


Nurses and Doctors are not in a foreign country fighting for their lives, they do their jobs here in the US and get to go home to their families, that is not a good comparison and those are 2 completely different things, I don't even see how you could compare those 2 career fields, being a Marine Infantry man is nothing like being a medic civilian state side.


----------



## theHawk

We should be covering the corpses of these dead Muslim terrorists with pig's blood.

As for these Marines, I have no doubt the Hussein will throw them to the wolves.


----------



## Warrior102

Is the U.S. enraging Muslims and Liberals again? 

*sniff sniff*


----------



## High_Gravity

Synthaholic said:


> This is a failure of training.  These men were put in the field before learning what it is to be Marines.



Hmm are you sure? because according to the reports these men are part of a sniper team, and the training for that is VERY hard, grueling, and challenging, Marine Snipers are some of the best on the planet at what they do.


----------



## CaughtInTheMid

Mr. H. said:


> No big deal.



yeah, i agree that it's no big deal to a number of americans. but i'd say their CO and chain of command are mad that they have yet something else to deal with (you know, since fighting terrorism is a walk in the park). all this did was create extra work for military personnel and make us look bad when we need help from crazy people/groups around the world. but i don't think many people care about any of that.


----------



## old navy

High_Gravity said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a failure of training.  These men were put in the field before learning what it is to be Marines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm are you sure? because according to the reports these men are part of a sniper team, and the training for that is VERY hard, grueling, and challenging, Marine Snipers are some of the best on the planet at what they do.
Click to expand...


Great point. Maybe more a failure in leadership. I realize that all troops cannot be supervised 24/7, especially in the USMC which is all about small unit leadership with corporals and sergeants enjoying huge responsibilities.

As you stated, Marine snipers are well trained and are among the world's best. This group was probably operating fairly independently with not a lot of SNCO or officer supervision. In fact, STA platoons get assigned officers with the MOS 0203. They are intell ofiicers who have been to the infantry officer course at Quantico but have not been through sniper school. Not all platoons get these officers but if these dumbasses had an 0203 as a platoon leader, that would further distance them from supervision.

As a CAR wearing Corpsman with three FMF tours from when I was an E-3 through the ranks to E-8, I understand the stresses of combat, multiple tours, etc, blah, blah and whatnot. The fact remains that these highly trained US Marines who have been trusted with making the decision on who lives or dies, knew that pissing on dead bodies, regardless of nationality, religion, enemy, or otherwise, was wrong as hell. They will pay a heavy price for their deeds.


----------



## High_Gravity

old navy said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a failure of training.  These men were put in the field before learning what it is to be Marines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm are you sure? because according to the reports these men are part of a sniper team, and the training for that is VERY hard, grueling, and challenging, Marine Snipers are some of the best on the planet at what they do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Great point. Maybe more a failure in leadership. I realize that all troops cannot be supervised 24/7, especially in the USMC which is all about small unit leadership with corporals and sergeants enjoying huge responsibilities.
> 
> As you stated, Marine snipers are well trained and are among the world's best. This group was probably operating fairly independently with not a lot of SNCO or officer supervision. In fact, STA platoons get assigned officers with the MOS 0203. They are intell ofiicers who have been to the infantry officer course at Quantico but have not been through sniper school. Not all platoons get these officers but if these dumbasses had an 0203 as a platoon leader, that would further distance them from supervision.
> 
> As a CAR wearing Corpsman with three FMF tours from when I was an E-3 through the ranks to E-8, I understand the stresses of combat, multiple tours, etc, blah, blah and whatnot. The fact remains that these highly trained US Marines who have been trusted with making the decision on who lives or dies, knew that pissing on dead bodies, regardless of nationality, religion, enemy, or otherwise, was wrong as hell. They will pay a heavy price for their deeds.
Click to expand...


In your opinion what "heavy price" should they pay? I am under no illusions I'm pretty sure these guys careers are done, this is all over the news and internet now around the world, the White House will demand heads on a plate for this. But what do you think should happen to them? should their careers really end for this? we send them over there to kill, but we punish them for urinating on Taliban?  

Now don't get me wrong, I know what the Marine's did was wrong and they made the Military look bad, however if these guys have been on multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan I can see why the Marines had this much contempt for the enemy, these guys are getting to see the enemy up close and personal and see what they are doing to our troops over there. They were probably in a fire fight for hours with the guys they pissed on for all we know.


----------



## plt42

ABikerSailor said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody who doesn't think that these guys are douches are douches. The American military is something that others should look up to, not down at..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think these guys are douches, I FUCKING KNOW IT!!!!
> 
> Which is why I want them to face a courts martial and get the fuck out of my military.
Click to expand...


May we assume that you're willing to take their place?


----------



## old navy

High_Gravity said:


> old navy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm are you sure? because according to the reports these men are part of a sniper team, and the training for that is VERY hard, grueling, and challenging, Marine Snipers are some of the best on the planet at what they do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great point. Maybe more a failure in leadership. I realize that all troops cannot be supervised 24/7, especially in the USMC which is all about small unit leadership with corporals and sergeants enjoying huge responsibilities.
> 
> As you stated, Marine snipers are well trained and are among the world's best. This group was probably operating fairly independently with not a lot of SNCO or officer supervision. In fact, STA platoons get assigned officers with the MOS 0203. They are intell ofiicers who have been to the infantry officer course at Quantico but have not been through sniper school. Not all platoons get these officers but if these dumbasses had an 0203 as a platoon leader, that would further distance them from supervision.
> 
> As a CAR wearing Corpsman with three FMF tours from when I was an E-3 through the ranks to E-8, I understand the stresses of combat, multiple tours, etc, blah, blah and whatnot. The fact remains that these highly trained US Marines who have been trusted with making the decision on who lives or dies, knew that pissing on dead bodies, regardless of nationality, religion, enemy, or otherwise, was wrong as hell. They will pay a heavy price for their deeds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In your opinion what "heavy price" should they pay? I am under no illusions I'm pretty sure these guys careers are done, this is all over the news and internet now around the world, the White House will demand heads on a plate for this. But what do you think should happen to them? should their careers really end for this? we send them over there to kill, but we punish them for urinating on Taliban?
> 
> Now don't get me wrong, I know what the Marine's did was wrong and they made the Military look bad, however if these guys have been on multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan I can see why the Marines had this much contempt for the enemy, these guys are getting to see the enemy up close and personal and see what they are doing to our troops over there. They were probably in a fire fight for hours with the guys they pissed on for all we know.
Click to expand...


I didn't say they should. I said they will. Chances are that they would have gotten out anyway. Regardless, I would bet that these Marines will be staying with Uncle Sam a bit longer than their EAS. I am just guessing here when I say they will go to a GCM as well as possibly those one or two levels up in their chain of command. Probably get a BCD.

As you said, we sent them there to kill, not to abuse a corpse and cause an international incident. I doubt these men were in a firefight with the pissees. One Marine was still holding his sniper rifle while urinating. Marine snipers are also trained in small arms and other weapons but chances are they killed from afar. I don't write this in sympathy for the enemy. Everyone is saying how this is no big deal. Yes it is. These Marines failed in maintaining their discipline and professionalism and in the process, let down the country that employs them.


----------



## Synthaholic

old navy said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a failure of training.  These men were put in the field before learning what it is to be Marines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm are you sure? because according to the reports these men are part of a sniper team, and the training for that is VERY hard, grueling, and challenging, Marine Snipers are some of the best on the planet at what they do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Great point. Maybe more a failure in leadership.* I realize that all troops cannot be supervised 24/7, especially in the USMC which is all about small unit leadership with corporals and sergeants enjoying huge responsibilities.*
> 
> As you stated, Marine snipers are well trained and are among the world's best. This group was probably operating fairly independently with not a lot of SNCO or officer supervision. In fact, STA platoons get assigned officers with the MOS 0203. They are intell ofiicers who have been to the infantry officer course at Quantico but have not been through sniper school. Not all platoons get these officers but if these dumbasses had an 0203 as a platoon leader, that would further distance them from supervision.
> 
> As a CAR wearing Corpsman with three FMF tours from when I was an E-3 through the ranks to E-8, I understand the stresses of combat, multiple tours, etc, blah, blah and whatnot. The fact remains that these highly trained US Marines who have been trusted with making the decision on who lives or dies, knew that pissing on dead bodies, regardless of nationality, religion, enemy, or otherwise, was wrong as hell. They will pay a heavy price for their deeds.
Click to expand...



I'm not talking about their combat training, or their proficiency with all things military.  I am talking about what it means to *be *a Marine.  Marines do not need supervision to make sure they are acting with honor and living up to the Corp's high standards.


----------



## old navy

Synthaholic said:


> I'm not talking about their combat training, or their proficiency with all things military.  I am talking about what it means to *be *a Marine.  Marines do not need supervision to make sure they are acting with honor and living up to the Corp's high standards.



Agreed.

My post appeared to disagree with your comment but that was not my intention. You make a good point.


----------



## High_Gravity

old navy said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> old navy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great point. Maybe more a failure in leadership. I realize that all troops cannot be supervised 24/7, especially in the USMC which is all about small unit leadership with corporals and sergeants enjoying huge responsibilities.
> 
> As you stated, Marine snipers are well trained and are among the world's best. This group was probably operating fairly independently with not a lot of SNCO or officer supervision. In fact, STA platoons get assigned officers with the MOS 0203. They are intell ofiicers who have been to the infantry officer course at Quantico but have not been through sniper school. Not all platoons get these officers but if these dumbasses had an 0203 as a platoon leader, that would further distance them from supervision.
> 
> As a CAR wearing Corpsman with three FMF tours from when I was an E-3 through the ranks to E-8, I understand the stresses of combat, multiple tours, etc, blah, blah and whatnot. The fact remains that these highly trained US Marines who have been trusted with making the decision on who lives or dies, knew that pissing on dead bodies, regardless of nationality, religion, enemy, or otherwise, was wrong as hell. They will pay a heavy price for their deeds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In your opinion what "heavy price" should they pay? I am under no illusions I'm pretty sure these guys careers are done, this is all over the news and internet now around the world, the White House will demand heads on a plate for this. But what do you think should happen to them? should their careers really end for this? we send them over there to kill, but we punish them for urinating on Taliban?
> 
> Now don't get me wrong, I know what the Marine's did was wrong and they made the Military look bad, however if these guys have been on multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan I can see why the Marines had this much contempt for the enemy, these guys are getting to see the enemy up close and personal and see what they are doing to our troops over there. They were probably in a fire fight for hours with the guys they pissed on for all we know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't say they should. I said they will. *Chances are that they would have gotten out anyway*. Regardless, I would bet that these Marines will be staying with Uncle Sam a bit longer than their EAS. I am just guessing here when I say they will go to a GCM as well as possibly those one or two levels up in their chain of command. Probably get a BCD.
> 
> As you said, we sent them there to kill, not to abuse a corpse and cause an international incident. I doubt these men were in a firefight with the pissees. One Marine was still holding his sniper rifle while urinating. Marine snipers are also trained in small arms and other weapons but chances are they killed from afar. I don't write this in sympathy for the enemy. Everyone is saying how this is no big deal. Yes it is. These Marines failed in maintaining their discipline and professionalism and in the process, let down the country that employs them.
Click to expand...


Yes they probably should have, and I have a feeling ALOT of our troops fall in that same category, going on multiple deployments to war zones can take a huge toll on anyone, and alot of our troops are in that same position.


----------



## PredFan

It's a good thing I wasn't there, I'd have shit on them too.

Good luck trying to get your 72 virgins to fuck you when you smell like shit and piss for all eternity.


----------



## old navy

High_Gravity said:


> Yes they probably should have, and I have a feeling ALOT of our troops fall in that same category, going on multiple deployments to war zones can take a huge toll on anyone, and alot of our troops are in that same position.



yep


----------



## paulitician

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9IA9IMfBy8]US Marines urinating on dead Afghans Censored - YouTube[/ame]








&#8220;While we have not yet verified the origin or authenticity of this video, the actions portrayed are not consistent with our core values and are not indicative of the character of the Marines in our Corps,&#8221; the USMC said in a statement. &#8220;The matter will be fully investigated.&#8221;

A Department of Defense spokesman offered scathing criticism of the conduct.

&#8220;Regardless of the circumstances or who is in the video, this is egregious, disgusting behavior,&#8221; defense spokesman Capt. John Kirby said, according to CNN. &#8220;It&#8217;s hideous. It turned my stomach.&#8221;

U.S. military law prohibits corpse desecration and the Geneva Convention requires honorable treatment for combatants and civilians after death.

"The government of Afghanistan is deeply disturbed by a video that shows American soldiers desecrating dead bodies of three Afghans," Afghan President Hamid Karzai said in a statement Thursday.

"This act by American soldiers is simply inhuman and condemnable in the strongest possible terms,&#8221; he said. &#8220;We expressly ask the US government to urgently investigate the video and apply the most severe punishment to anyone found guilty in this crime."

United States Marine Corps investigate desecration video, Afghanistan's Hamid Karzai calls footage 'simply inhuman' - NY Daily News
DRUDGE REPORT 2012®

merged


----------



## bodecea

Why do these stupid idiots take pictures?   Geesh.


----------



## truthsaga

"The humanity that goes into war" - Rumsfeld

This is more evidence of what effects this continual warfare is having on our troops.  The suicides, the post traumatic stress, and the pressures on the family life.  I wonder who the troops support as their commander and chief?


----------



## High_Gravity

This is just one of the horrors or war.


----------



## paulitician

bodecea said:


> Why do these stupid idiots take pictures?   Geesh.



Yeah,i often wonder about that myself. I think it has to do with this generation. It's all about the Facebook & Twitter for them. They feel an urgent need to photograph and video everything they do. This one really is gonna bite em.


----------



## BlindBoo

No it's not the next Abu Ghraib.  Unless it turns out that their actions were the results of a standing policy of pissing on the dead, like the inhuman treatment at all of our detention facilities in both Iraq and Afghanistan.


----------



## occupied

When you make monsters for national defense, they cannot be unmade.


----------



## High_Gravity

paulitician said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do these stupid idiots take pictures?   Geesh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah,i often wonder about that myself. I think it has to do with this generation. It's all about the Facebook & Twitter for them. They feel an urgent need to photograph and video everything they do. This one really is gonna bite em.
Click to expand...


You are right my man, personal satisfaction just isn't enough anymore, these kids want everyone to see what they've done.


----------



## The Infidel

I just wish a big wig in The Marines would get on camera and tell the media to suck their (Marines) collectives dicks! 

Maybe the guys were just trying to 'clean' the corpses


----------



## High_Gravity

The Infidel said:


> I just wish a big wig in The Marines would get on camera and tell the media to suck their (Marines) collectives dicks!
> 
> Maybe the guys were just trying to 'clean' the corpses



Maybe they really had to go, the wind knocked open their zippers and it just came out, and some leafs got blown in their faces and tickled them so they laughed?


----------



## The Infidel

occupied said:


> When you make monsters for national defense, they cannot be unmade.



You dickhead..... THEY ARE NOT MONSTERS!

FUCK YOU!


----------



## bodecea

paulitician said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do these stupid idiots take pictures?   Geesh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah,i often wonder about that myself. I think it has to do with this generation. It's all about the Facebook & Twitter for them. They feel an urgent need to photograph and video everything they do. This one really is gonna bite em.
Click to expand...


It's not just now, tho definitely more prevalent.   I've seen private pics from Nam.   But, if they take pics, the chances of it getting out are increased....stupid, stupid, stupid.


----------



## paulitician

High_Gravity said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do these stupid idiots take pictures?   Geesh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah,i often wonder about that myself. I think it has to do with this generation. It's all about the Facebook & Twitter for them. They feel an urgent need to photograph and video everything they do. This one really is gonna bite em.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are right my man, personal satisfaction just isn't enough anymore, these kids want everyone to see what they've done.
Click to expand...


Surprised they didn't post the video & photos on Facebook & Twitter themselves.


----------



## VaYank5150

bodecea said:


> Why do these stupid idiots take pictures?   Geesh.



Maybe we should send them to Gitmo and waterboard them until the tell us why?


----------



## occupied

The Infidel said:


> occupied said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you make monsters for national defense, they cannot be unmade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You dickhead..... THEY ARE NOT MONSTERS!
> 
> FUCK YOU!
Click to expand...


Are you trying somehow to defend this behavior? Indefensible.


----------



## VaYank5150

truthsaga said:


> "The humanity that goes into war" - Rumsfeld
> 
> This is more evidence of what effects this continual warfare is having on our troops.  The suicides, the post traumatic stress, and the pressures on the family life.  I wonder who the troops support as their commander and chief?



What is a commander and chief?


----------



## The Gadfly

old navy said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> old navy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great point. Maybe more a failure in leadership. I realize that all troops cannot be supervised 24/7, especially in the USMC which is all about small unit leadership with corporals and sergeants enjoying huge responsibilities.
> 
> As you stated, Marine snipers are well trained and are among the world's best. This group was probably operating fairly independently with not a lot of SNCO or officer supervision. In fact, STA platoons get assigned officers with the MOS 0203. They are intell ofiicers who have been to the infantry officer course at Quantico but have not been through sniper school. Not all platoons get these officers but if these dumbasses had an 0203 as a platoon leader, that would further distance them from supervision.
> 
> As a CAR wearing Corpsman with three FMF tours from when I was an E-3 through the ranks to E-8, I understand the stresses of combat, multiple tours, etc, blah, blah and whatnot. The fact remains that these highly trained US Marines who have been trusted with making the decision on who lives or dies, knew that pissing on dead bodies, regardless of nationality, religion, enemy, or otherwise, was wrong as hell. They will pay a heavy price for their deeds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In your opinion what "heavy price" should they pay? I am under no illusions I'm pretty sure these guys careers are done, this is all over the news and internet now around the world, the White House will demand heads on a plate for this. But what do you think should happen to them? should their careers really end for this? we send them over there to kill, but we punish them for urinating on Taliban?
> 
> Now don't get me wrong, I know what the Marine's did was wrong and they made the Military look bad, however if these guys have been on multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan I can see why the Marines had this much contempt for the enemy, these guys are getting to see the enemy up close and personal and see what they are doing to our troops over there. They were probably in a fire fight for hours with the guys they pissed on for all we know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't say they should. I said they will. Chances are that they would have gotten out anyway. Regardless, I would bet that these Marines will be staying with Uncle Sam a bit longer than their EAS. I am just guessing here when I say they will go to a GCM as well as possibly those one or two levels up in their chain of command. Probably get a BCD.
> 
> As you said, we sent them there to kill, not to abuse a corpse and cause an international incident. I doubt these men were in a firefight with the pissees. One Marine was still holding his sniper rifle while urinating. Marine snipers are also trained in small arms and other weapons but chances are they killed from afar. I don't write this in sympathy for the enemy. Everyone is saying how this is no big deal. Yes it is. These Marines failed in maintaining their discipline and professionalism and in the process, let down the country that employs them.
Click to expand...


I think you nailed it. These individuals probably had no direct supervision at the time; if they had, we probably would not be having this discussion.

My experience was with an army that included a fair percentage of conscripts. I would think it is possible (and probably desirable) to maintain a higher level of discipline and professionalism with an all-volunteer force. Obviously this is a different military than we fought WW II, or even Vietnam with. In any case, one cannot simply let his troops run amok in combat without the risk of having behavior that is distasteful escalate into something completely beyond the pale. The question then becomes on of where the line is drawn Some of the standards you were taught, and which are in place now, are in some measure a result of our experience in Vietnam, where the loose discipline found in many units eventually led to acts that were (and frankly ought to be) unacceptable.

I do wonder, though, where the point comes that a higher standard of discipline collides with the psychological realities of high operational tempo and repeated combat deployments, especially for troops in high-intensity, high-demand specialties (of which Marine Scout Sniper is one).  This is no longer one or two tours and done; I don't know that we can tell yet what the full psychological impacts of so many and so frequent repeated exposures to intensive combat actually are. What we do know suggests that the emotional impacts are cumulative. It may be that personnel in these billets need more supervision, with special attention paid to their apparent psychological status; absent that, we may well see more "lapses in judgment/professionalism".

You are likely correct that these men will eventually get BCD's. The natural response of command when embarrassed is punitive. What we have to ask, is whether that is the best approach in this instance. I don't think we know yet.


----------



## The Infidel

occupied said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> occupied said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you make monsters for national defense, they cannot be unmade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You dickhead..... THEY ARE NOT MONSTERS!
> 
> FUCK YOU!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you trying somehow to defend this behavior? Indefensible.
Click to expand...


No.... I am defending the Marines!

THEY ARE NOT MONSTERS!

Plus... I am not going to judge these guys for their actions. This is nothing compared to what they have seen the ENEMY do to their friends and fellow Marines.

So yes.... they were wrong for doing it, but SO THE FUCK WHAT!


----------



## occupied

The Infidel said:


> occupied said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You dickhead..... THEY ARE NOT MONSTERS!
> 
> FUCK YOU!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you trying somehow to defend this behavior? Indefensible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.... I am defending the Marines!
> 
> THEY ARE NOT MONSTERS!
> 
> Plus... I am not going to judge these guys for their actions. This is nothing compared to what they have seen the ENEMY do to their friends and fellow Marines.
> 
> So no.... they were wrong for doing it, but SO THE FUCK WHAT!
Click to expand...


Other than being soldiers, they are our representatives in a foreign land. This kind of thing reflects very badly on us as a nation and puts their fellow soldiers in danger of retribution from the enemy. You may not judge them but I have no such blind spot, they are doing the kind of thing we went to war to fight and have no business wearing that uniform.


----------



## bodecea

The Infidel said:


> occupied said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You dickhead..... THEY ARE NOT MONSTERS!
> 
> FUCK YOU!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you trying somehow to defend this behavior? Indefensible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.... I am defending the Marines!
> 
> THEY ARE NOT MONSTERS!
> 
> Plus... I am not going to judge these guys for their actions. This is nothing compared to what they have seen the ENEMY do to their friends and fellow Marines.
> 
> So yes.... *they were wrong for doing it, but SO THE FUCK WHAT!*
Click to expand...



I was with you til that last line.


----------



## The Infidel

bodecea said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> occupied said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you trying somehow to defend this behavior? Indefensible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.... I am defending the Marines!
> 
> THEY ARE NOT MONSTERS!
> 
> Plus... I am not going to judge these guys for their actions. This is nothing compared to what they have seen the ENEMY do to their friends and fellow Marines.
> 
> So yes.... *they were wrong for doing it, but SO THE FUCK WHAT!*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I was with you til that last line.
Click to expand...



Sorry... I am just not as outraged about it as some folks.

I wouldnt have done it. I think its stupid and frankly disgusting.


----------



## High_Gravity

The Infidel said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.... I am defending the Marines!
> 
> THEY ARE NOT MONSTERS!
> 
> Plus... I am not going to judge these guys for their actions. This is nothing compared to what they have seen the ENEMY do to their friends and fellow Marines.
> 
> So yes.... *they were wrong for doing it, but SO THE FUCK WHAT!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was with you til that last line.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry... I am just not as outraged about it as some folks.
> 
> I wouldnt have done it. I think its stupid and frankly disgusting.
Click to expand...


We have been at war with the Taliban for 10 years, so many Soldiers and Marines keep going back on multiple deployments over there, the lines are starting to get blurred. This is the longest war in our history, and unlike Vietnam you don't just get to go once or maybe twice, alot of these guys have been to Iraq and Afghanistan 4, 5, 6 times! This takes a toll on you after a while, you start to dehumanize the enemy, for these young men it is acceptable for them to disembowel the Talib's in combat or blow their fucking heads open like a melon from 200 yards with a sniper rifle, but pissing is a no no, very thin line there. I'm not saying I agree with or condone what they did, I can understand why though.


----------



## Crackerjack

The Infidel said:


> Maybe the guys were just trying to 'clean' the corpses


Y'know, urine is sterile when it first leaves the body.

Hell, Bear Grylls drinks that stuff all the time.  It can't be that bad for ya?

Anyway, those Taliban shitstains aren't going to get any sicker.


----------



## The Gadfly

High_Gravity said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was with you til that last line.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry... I am just not as outraged about it as some folks.
> 
> I wouldnt have done it. I think its stupid and frankly disgusting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We have been at war with the Taliban for 10 years, so many Soldiers and Marines keep going back on multiple deployments over there, the lines are starting to get blurred. This is the longest war in our history, and unlike Vietnam you don't just get to go once or maybe twice, alot of these guys have been to Iraq and Afghanistan 4, 5, 6 times! This takes a toll on you after a while, you start to dehumanize the enemy, for these young men it is acceptable for them to disembowel the Talib's in combat or blow their fucking heads open like a melon from 200 yards with a sniper rifle, but pissing is a no no, very thin line there. I'm not saying I agree with or condone what they did, I can understand why though.
Click to expand...


I don't know, HG. On the one hand, in the old days, if I had drawn up charges on every man who did something in the heat of the moment that I or someone else might find disgusting, well I'd have been sending a goodly portion of my guys off to the Long Binh Jail. On the other hand, you can't simply blow this kind of stuff off, either, or it's likely to escalate; I saw that, in some units. I don't recall the pissing thing ever being an issue, but turn a blind eye toward some things just a little worse, and the next thing you know, you have someone abusing civilians, or worse. There HAVE to be limits. That said, when a man begins acting uncharacteristically brutal or nasty, that's often a sign of someone who has reached the end of his tether and is about to snap; seen that too many times, unfortunately.

The real question here, is how culpable these Marines are for their actions; we don't have all the answers, but hopefully an investigation and a General Court will carefully look into that, instead of having a knee-jerk reaction to simply make an example of them. I'll tell you this; just from what I have seen anecdotally with some who have been on five or six combat deployments in the Sandbox, I am getting seriously concerned about the long-term psychological effects on these personnel.


----------



## Crackerjack

High_Gravity said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was with you til that last line.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry... I am just not as outraged about it as some folks.
> 
> I wouldnt have done it. I think its stupid and frankly disgusting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We have been at war with the Taliban for 10 years, so many Soldiers and Marines keep going back on multiple deployments over there, the lines are starting to get blurred. This is the longest war in our history, and unlike Vietnam you don't just get to go once or maybe twice, alot of these guys have been to Iraq and Afghanistan 4, 5, 6 times! This takes a toll on you after a while, you start to dehumanize the enemy, for these young men it is acceptable for them to disembowel the Talib's in combat or blow their fucking heads open like a melon from 200 yards with a sniper rifle, but pissing is a no no, very thin line there. I'm not saying I agree with or condone what they did, I can understand why though.
Click to expand...

The problem, in my humble estimation, is the "winning hearts and minds" portion of these military actions.  We've been there ten years and still haven't done it, and we can be there for the next hundred and probably still won't.  Regardless of which side is right or wrong, if a foreign force comes to your country uninvited and blows away your brother, you will *never* win his heart and/or mind.  

The tragedy is that old men in Washington are sending young men to Afghanistan on this fool's errand because the old men want to be able to achieve a military objective but still have everyone like them.  You know what?  *Fuck that.*  Our stance should be: your country attacks us, we're going to come and turn it into a smouldering crater, and then it's gonna be up to you to decide whether it's worth it to try again or not, because you damn well know we're going to destroy your country again and again, every time you choose to come at us.  You don't like it?  Tough titties, because we don't care.  Just leave us the fuck alone.

I know the military has certain standards of conduct that they must uphold for reasons of good order and discipline, but I'm sick to fucking death of seeing kids fresh out of high school coming back in pieces, in body bags, or as mental cases and nobody gives a shit about it, but yet when a few of them get together and take a piss on the scum of the earth, every damn politician in DC races to a mic to apologize and try to suck dick in order to appease people that already fucking hate us.  And by the way, fuck off Karzai.  If it wasn't for us knocking over the Taliban, you'd still be fucking goats off in the mountains somewhere, so your opinion is worthless.

Dammit, I wish there was someone in charge in DC who had a pair of balls.


----------



## High_Gravity

The Gadfly said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry... I am just not as outraged about it as some folks.
> 
> I wouldnt have done it. I think its stupid and frankly disgusting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have been at war with the Taliban for 10 years, so many Soldiers and Marines keep going back on multiple deployments over there, the lines are starting to get blurred. This is the longest war in our history, and unlike Vietnam you don't just get to go once or maybe twice, alot of these guys have been to Iraq and Afghanistan 4, 5, 6 times! This takes a toll on you after a while, you start to dehumanize the enemy, for these young men it is acceptable for them to disembowel the Talib's in combat or blow their fucking heads open like a melon from 200 yards with a sniper rifle, but pissing is a no no, very thin line there. I'm not saying I agree with or condone what they did, I can understand why though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know, HG. On the one hand, in the old days, if I had drawn up charges on every man who did something in the heat of the moment that I or someone else might find disgusting, well I'd have been sending a goodly portion of my guys off to the Long Binh Jail. On the other hand, you can't simply blow this kind of stuff off, either, or it's likely to escalate; I saw that, in some units. I don't recall the pissing thing ever being an issue, but turn a blind eye toward some things just a little worse, and the next thing you know, you have someone abusing civilians, or worse. There HAVE to be limits. That said, when a man begins acting uncharacteristically brutal or nasty, that's often a sign of someone who has reached the end of his tether and is about to snap; seen that too many times, unfortunately.
> 
> The real question here, is how culpable these Marines are for their actions; we don't have all the answers, but hopefully an investigation and a General Court will carefully look into that, instead of having a knee-jerk reaction to simply make an example of them. I'll tell you this; just from what I have seen anecdotally with some who have been on five or six combat deployments in the Sandbox, I am getting seriously concerned about the long-term psychological effects on these personnel.
Click to expand...


I think they do need to be punished, I'm not condoning what they did but at the same time I don't think they should get dishonorable discharges either. I am curious to know the ranks of these Marines and how many deployment's they have been on, that will tell us alot right there.


----------



## High_Gravity

Crackerjack said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry... I am just not as outraged about it as some folks.
> 
> I wouldnt have done it. I think its stupid and frankly disgusting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have been at war with the Taliban for 10 years, so many Soldiers and Marines keep going back on multiple deployments over there, the lines are starting to get blurred. This is the longest war in our history, and unlike Vietnam you don't just get to go once or maybe twice, alot of these guys have been to Iraq and Afghanistan 4, 5, 6 times! This takes a toll on you after a while, you start to dehumanize the enemy, for these young men it is acceptable for them to disembowel the Talib's in combat or blow their fucking heads open like a melon from 200 yards with a sniper rifle, but pissing is a no no, very thin line there. I'm not saying I agree with or condone what they did, I can understand why though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The problem, in my humble estimation, is the "winning hearts and minds" portion of these military actions.  We've been there ten years and still haven't done it, and we can be there for the next hundred and probably still won't.  Regardless of which side is right or wrong, if a foreign force comes to your country uninvited and blows away your brother, you will *never* win his heart and/or mind.
> 
> The tragedy is that old men in Washington are sending young men to Afghanistan on this fool's errand because the old men want to be able to achieve a military objective but still have everyone like them.  You know what?  *Fuck that.*  Our stance should be: your country attacks us, we're going to come and turn it into a smouldering crater, and then it's gonna be up to you to decide whether it's worth it to try again or not, because you damn well know we're going to destroy your country again and again, every time you choose to come at us.  You don't like it?  Tough titties, because we don't care.  Just leave us the fuck alone.
> 
> I know the military has certain standards of conduct that they must uphold for reasons of good order and discipline, but I'm sick to fucking death of seeing kids fresh out of high school coming back in pieces, in body bags, or as mental cases and nobody gives a shit about it, but yet when a few of them get together and take a piss on the scum of the earth, every damn politician in DC races to a mic to apologize and try to suck dick in order to appease people that already fucking hate us.  And by the way, fuck off Karzai.  If it wasn't for us knocking over the Taliban, you'd still be fucking goats off in the mountains somewhere, so your opinion is worthless.
> 
> Dammit, I wish there was someone in charge in DC who had a pair of balls.
Click to expand...


I agree with you 100% bro, the nation building part of this war and the "hearts and minds" thing is a fucking disaster, Afghanistan is almost like a different planet when you compare it to America, the Afghans for the most part are a backwards primitive people dominated by Islam, its all they want and know, and most of the people there are illiterare and live in mud huts. Not just that, but they would prefer to stay that way, how is a 20 year old Marine from Tampa Bay supposed to go over there and relate to these people? most of the people in combat in Afghanistan are young Americans and for most of them going to Afghanistan is their first visit to a country outside the US, there is no way a young American to going to be able to get through to an Afghan and even understand that culture, its just time to bring our men and women home, its time.


----------



## High_Gravity

> The real question here, is how culpable these Marines are for their actions; we don't have all the answers, but hopefully an investigation and a General Court will carefully look into that, instead of having a knee-jerk reaction to simply make an example of them. I'll tell you this; just from what I have seen anecdotally with some who have been on five or six combat deployments in the Sandbox, *I am getting seriously concerned about the long-term psychological effects on these personnel*.



That's some real shit right there Gadly, especially the last part. When this is all said and done and our men and women come home, we are going to be in unchartered territory dealing with Troops who have to come face to face with psychological terrors from 5 or 6 combat deployments, that is something we have never seen before, even in Vietnam.


----------



## Crackerjack

High_Gravity said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have been at war with the Taliban for 10 years, so many Soldiers and Marines keep going back on multiple deployments over there, the lines are starting to get blurred. This is the longest war in our history, and unlike Vietnam you don't just get to go once or maybe twice, alot of these guys have been to Iraq and Afghanistan 4, 5, 6 times! This takes a toll on you after a while, you start to dehumanize the enemy, for these young men it is acceptable for them to disembowel the Talib's in combat or blow their fucking heads open like a melon from 200 yards with a sniper rifle, but pissing is a no no, very thin line there. I'm not saying I agree with or condone what they did, I can understand why though.
> 
> 
> 
> The problem, in my humble estimation, is the "winning hearts and minds" portion of these military actions.  We've been there ten years and still haven't done it, and we can be there for the next hundred and probably still won't.  Regardless of which side is right or wrong, if a foreign force comes to your country uninvited and blows away your brother, you will *never* win his heart and/or mind.
> 
> The tragedy is that old men in Washington are sending young men to Afghanistan on this fool's errand because the old men want to be able to achieve a military objective but still have everyone like them.  You know what?  *Fuck that.*  Our stance should be: your country attacks us, we're going to come and turn it into a smouldering crater, and then it's gonna be up to you to decide whether it's worth it to try again or not, because you damn well know we're going to destroy your country again and again, every time you choose to come at us.  You don't like it?  Tough titties, because we don't care.  Just leave us the fuck alone.
> 
> I know the military has certain standards of conduct that they must uphold for reasons of good order and discipline, but I'm sick to fucking death of seeing kids fresh out of high school coming back in pieces, in body bags, or as mental cases and nobody gives a shit about it, but yet when a few of them get together and take a piss on the scum of the earth, every damn politician in DC races to a mic to apologize and try to suck dick in order to appease people that already fucking hate us.  And by the way, fuck off Karzai.  If it wasn't for us knocking over the Taliban, you'd still be fucking goats off in the mountains somewhere, so your opinion is worthless.
> 
> Dammit, I wish there was someone in charge in DC who had a pair of balls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree with you 100% bro, the nation building part of this war and the "hearts and minds" thing is a fucking disaster, Afghanistan is almost like a different planet when you compare it to America, the Afghans for the most part are a backwards primitive people dominated by Islam, its all they want and know, and most of the people there are illiterare and live in mud huts. Not just that, but they would prefer to stay that way, how is a 20 year old Marine from Tampa Bay supposed to go over there and relate to these people? most of the people in combat in Afghanistan are young Americans and for most of them going to Afghanistan is their first visit to a country outside the US, there is no way a young American to going to be able to get through to an Afghan and even understand that culture, its just time to bring our men and women home, its time.
Click to expand...

That's the thing that kills me -- they've been blowing each other up since before the idea of an independent state in North America was even a wet dream.  To think that we're going to put a stop to all that noise is utterly ridiculous.  Let 'em go back to killing each other.  Not one drop of American blood should be spilled on it.  We should have sent about two dozen B-52's over there with a full compliment of dumb bombs in the middle of the night and carpet bombed their shit and said, "Okay folks, you figure it out now.  But remember, come at us again, and there's plenty more whup-ass where that came from."  And if they want help sorting it out, they can petition the UN to send over some bureaucrats or whatever.  And if they don't, they can go right on back to the Middle Ages, living in mud huts without a pot to piss in and playing Hatfields and McCoys and sending each other to Allah instead of building infrastructure and putting together a real country.  Pigs wallow in shit because they like it, so just leave them to it.

But no, every swinging dick in Washington thinks we have to "win their hearts and minds" by playing nice with them.  Except that none of them have any skin in the game.  Convenient, ain't it?


----------



## High_Gravity

Crackerjack said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem, in my humble estimation, is the "winning hearts and minds" portion of these military actions.  We've been there ten years and still haven't done it, and we can be there for the next hundred and probably still won't.  Regardless of which side is right or wrong, if a foreign force comes to your country uninvited and blows away your brother, you will *never* win his heart and/or mind.
> 
> The tragedy is that old men in Washington are sending young men to Afghanistan on this fool's errand because the old men want to be able to achieve a military objective but still have everyone like them.  You know what?  *Fuck that.*  Our stance should be: your country attacks us, we're going to come and turn it into a smouldering crater, and then it's gonna be up to you to decide whether it's worth it to try again or not, because you damn well know we're going to destroy your country again and again, every time you choose to come at us.  You don't like it?  Tough titties, because we don't care.  Just leave us the fuck alone.
> 
> I know the military has certain standards of conduct that they must uphold for reasons of good order and discipline, but I'm sick to fucking death of seeing kids fresh out of high school coming back in pieces, in body bags, or as mental cases and nobody gives a shit about it, but yet when a few of them get together and take a piss on the scum of the earth, every damn politician in DC races to a mic to apologize and try to suck dick in order to appease people that already fucking hate us.  And by the way, fuck off Karzai.  If it wasn't for us knocking over the Taliban, you'd still be fucking goats off in the mountains somewhere, so your opinion is worthless.
> 
> Dammit, I wish there was someone in charge in DC who had a pair of balls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you 100% bro, the nation building part of this war and the "hearts and minds" thing is a fucking disaster, Afghanistan is almost like a different planet when you compare it to America, the Afghans for the most part are a backwards primitive people dominated by Islam, its all they want and know, and most of the people there are illiterare and live in mud huts. Not just that, but they would prefer to stay that way, how is a 20 year old Marine from Tampa Bay supposed to go over there and relate to these people? most of the people in combat in Afghanistan are young Americans and for most of them going to Afghanistan is their first visit to a country outside the US, there is no way a young American to going to be able to get through to an Afghan and even understand that culture, its just time to bring our men and women home, its time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's the thing that kills me -- they've been blowing each other up since before the idea of an independent state in North America was even a wet dream.  To think that we're going to put a stop to all that noise is utterly ridiculous.  Let 'em go back to killing each other.  Not one drop of American blood should be spilled on it.  We should have sent about two dozen B-52's over there with a full compliment of dumb bombs in the middle of the night and carpet bombed their shit and said, "Okay folks, you figure it out now.  But remember, come at us again, and there's plenty more whup-ass where that came from."  And if they want help sorting it out, they can petition the UN to send over some bureaucrats or whatever.  And if they don't, they can go right on back to the Middle Ages, living in mud huts without a pot to piss in and playing Hatfields and McCoys and sending each other to Allah instead of building infrastructure and putting together a real country.  Pigs wallow in shit because they like it, so just leave them to it.
> 
> But no, every swinging dick in Washington thinks we have to "win their hearts and minds" by playing nice with them.  Except that none of them have any skin in the game.  Convenient, ain't it?
Click to expand...


Winning "hearts and minds" sounds nice when you are sitting  in a nice comfortable air conditioned office in Washington DC, but when you are a young American having to leave your family behind to deploy to these shit holes, not so much.


----------



## ABikerSailor

plt42 said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody who doesn't think that these guys are douches are douches. The American military is something that others should look up to, not down at..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think these guys are douches, I FUCKING KNOW IT!!!!
> 
> Which is why I want them to face a courts martial and get the fuck out of my military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> May we assume that you're willing to take their place?
Click to expand...


I've already served 20 years in the U.S. Navy and have been in 4 war zones, starting with Beruit in 1983.  I retired in 2002.

Like I said, they are re-trained on the Code of Conduct for the U.S. Military annually, and apparently forgot their military bearing.


----------



## The Infidel

High_Gravity said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have been at war with the Taliban for 10 years, so many Soldiers and Marines keep going back on multiple deployments over there, the lines are starting to get blurred. This is the longest war in our history, and unlike Vietnam you don't just get to go once or maybe twice, alot of these guys have been to Iraq and Afghanistan 4, 5, 6 times! This takes a toll on you after a while, you start to dehumanize the enemy, for these young men it is acceptable for them to disembowel the Talib's in combat or blow their fucking heads open like a melon from 200 yards with a sniper rifle, but pissing is a no no, very thin line there. I'm not saying I agree with or condone what they did, I can understand why though.
> 
> 
> 
> The problem, in my humble estimation, is the "winning hearts and minds" portion of these military actions.  We've been there ten years and still haven't done it, and we can be there for the next hundred and probably still won't.  Regardless of which side is right or wrong, if a foreign force comes to your country uninvited and blows away your brother, you will *never* win his heart and/or mind.
> 
> The tragedy is that old men in Washington are sending young men to Afghanistan on this fool's errand because the old men want to be able to achieve a military objective but still have everyone like them.  You know what?  *Fuck that.*  Our stance should be: your country attacks us, we're going to come and turn it into a smouldering crater, and then it's gonna be up to you to decide whether it's worth it to try again or not, because you damn well know we're going to destroy your country again and again, every time you choose to come at us.  You don't like it?  Tough titties, because we don't care.  Just leave us the fuck alone.
> 
> I know the military has certain standards of conduct that they must uphold for reasons of good order and discipline, but I'm sick to fucking death of seeing kids fresh out of high school coming back in pieces, in body bags, or as mental cases and nobody gives a shit about it, but yet when a few of them get together and take a piss on the scum of the earth, every damn politician in DC races to a mic to apologize and try to suck dick in order to appease people that already fucking hate us.  And by the way, fuck off Karzai.  If it wasn't for us knocking over the Taliban, you'd still be fucking goats off in the mountains somewhere, so your opinion is worthless.
> 
> Dammit, I wish there was someone in charge in DC who had a pair of balls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree with you 100% bro, the nation building part of this war and the "hearts and minds" thing is a fucking disaster, Afghanistan is almost like a different planet when you compare it to America, the Afghans for the most part are a backwards primitive people dominated by Islam, its all they want and know, and most of the people there are illiterare and live in mud huts. Not just that, but they would prefer to stay that way, how is a 20 year old Marine from Tampa Bay supposed to go over there and relate to these people? most of the people in combat in Afghanistan are young Americans and for most of them going to Afghanistan is their first visit to a country outside the US, there is no way a young American to going to be able to get through to an Afghan and even understand that culture, its just time to bring our men and women home, its time.
Click to expand...



 with both of you guys


----------



## The Infidel

Crackerjack said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem, in my humble estimation, is the "winning hearts and minds" portion of these military actions.  We've been there ten years and still haven't done it, and we can be there for the next hundred and probably still won't.  Regardless of which side is right or wrong, if a foreign force comes to your country uninvited and blows away your brother, you will *never* win his heart and/or mind.
> 
> The tragedy is that old men in Washington are sending young men to Afghanistan on this fool's errand because the old men want to be able to achieve a military objective but still have everyone like them.  You know what?  *Fuck that.*  Our stance should be: your country attacks us, we're going to come and turn it into a smouldering crater, and then it's gonna be up to you to decide whether it's worth it to try again or not, because you damn well know we're going to destroy your country again and again, every time you choose to come at us.  You don't like it?  Tough titties, because we don't care.  Just leave us the fuck alone.
> 
> I know the military has certain standards of conduct that they must uphold for reasons of good order and discipline, but I'm sick to fucking death of seeing kids fresh out of high school coming back in pieces, in body bags, or as mental cases and nobody gives a shit about it, but yet when a few of them get together and take a piss on the scum of the earth, every damn politician in DC races to a mic to apologize and try to suck dick in order to appease people that already fucking hate us.  And by the way, fuck off Karzai.  If it wasn't for us knocking over the Taliban, you'd still be fucking goats off in the mountains somewhere, so your opinion is worthless.
> 
> Dammit, I wish there was someone in charge in DC who had a pair of balls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you 100% bro, the nation building part of this war and the "hearts and minds" thing is a fucking disaster, Afghanistan is almost like a different planet when you compare it to America, the Afghans for the most part are a backwards primitive people dominated by Islam, its all they want and know, and most of the people there are illiterare and live in mud huts. Not just that, but they would prefer to stay that way, how is a 20 year old Marine from Tampa Bay supposed to go over there and relate to these people? most of the people in combat in Afghanistan are young Americans and for most of them going to Afghanistan is their first visit to a country outside the US, there is no way a young American to going to be able to get through to an Afghan and even understand that culture, its just time to bring our men and women home, its time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's the thing that kills me -- they've been blowing each other up since before the idea of an independent state in North America was even a wet dream.  To think that we're going to put a stop to all that noise is utterly ridiculous.  Let 'em go back to killing each other.  Not one drop of American blood should be spilled on it.  We should have sent about two dozen B-52's over there with a full compliment of dumb bombs in the middle of the night and carpet bombed their shit and said, "Okay folks, you figure it out now.  But remember, come at us again, and there's plenty more whup-ass where that came from."  And if they want help sorting it out, they can petition the UN to send over some bureaucrats or whatever.  And if they don't, they can go right on back to the Middle Ages, living in mud huts without a pot to piss in and playing Hatfields and McCoys and sending each other to Allah instead of building infrastructure and putting together a real country.  Pigs wallow in shit because they like it, so just leave them to it.
> 
> But no, every swinging dick in Washington thinks we have to* "win their hearts and minds"* by playing nice with them.  Except that none of them have any skin in the game.  Convenient, ain't it?
Click to expand...


I always thought the military was there to break stuff and kill people


----------



## High_Gravity

The Infidel said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you 100% bro, the nation building part of this war and the "hearts and minds" thing is a fucking disaster, Afghanistan is almost like a different planet when you compare it to America, the Afghans for the most part are a backwards primitive people dominated by Islam, its all they want and know, and most of the people there are illiterare and live in mud huts. Not just that, but they would prefer to stay that way, how is a 20 year old Marine from Tampa Bay supposed to go over there and relate to these people? most of the people in combat in Afghanistan are young Americans and for most of them going to Afghanistan is their first visit to a country outside the US, there is no way a young American to going to be able to get through to an Afghan and even understand that culture, its just time to bring our men and women home, its time.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the thing that kills me -- they've been blowing each other up since before the idea of an independent state in North America was even a wet dream.  To think that we're going to put a stop to all that noise is utterly ridiculous.  Let 'em go back to killing each other.  Not one drop of American blood should be spilled on it.  We should have sent about two dozen B-52's over there with a full compliment of dumb bombs in the middle of the night and carpet bombed their shit and said, "Okay folks, you figure it out now.  But remember, come at us again, and there's plenty more whup-ass where that came from."  And if they want help sorting it out, they can petition the UN to send over some bureaucrats or whatever.  And if they don't, they can go right on back to the Middle Ages, living in mud huts without a pot to piss in and playing Hatfields and McCoys and sending each other to Allah instead of building infrastructure and putting together a real country.  Pigs wallow in shit because they like it, so just leave them to it.
> 
> But no, every swinging dick in Washington thinks we have to* "win their hearts and minds"* by playing nice with them.  Except that none of them have any skin in the game.  Convenient, ain't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I always thought the military was there to break stuff and kill people
Click to expand...


Not anymore, now Washington wants our men and women to be social workers and baby sitters in Afghanistan.


----------



## ABikerSailor

For me, it's not a question of anything other than they violated the Geneva Conventions (desecration of a corpse in combat) as well as have violated the Marine code of good order and discipline.

Like I said, have a General Courts Martial, check all the evidence and see what happened.  If it was stress induced from multiple deployments, treat 'em and kick 'em out.

If they did it just because they thought it was cool?  Give 'em brig time and a BCD.

Either way, they violated the Geneva Conventions and the Marine code of good order and discipline.


----------



## The Infidel

ABikerSailor said:


> For me, it's not a question of anything other than they violated the Geneva Conventions (desecration of a corpse in combat) as well as have violated the Marine code of good order and discipline.
> 
> Like I said, have a General Courts Martial, check all the evidence and see what happened.  If it was stress induced from multiple deployments, treat 'em and kick 'em out.
> 
> If they did it just because they thought it was cool?  Give 'em brig time and a BCD.
> 
> Either way, they violated the Geneva Conventions and the Marine code of good order and discipline.



You are correct.

I still dont like the fact that it is being made into such a shit storm.

The guys were silly for video taping their silliness though.

Its a shame this will be reflected on all of them though. 
Our soldiers are the best of the best regardless of what some may think.


----------



## old navy

High_Gravity said:


> The real question here, is how culpable these Marines are for their actions; we don't have all the answers, but hopefully an investigation and a General Court will carefully look into that, instead of having a knee-jerk reaction to simply make an example of them. I'll tell you this; just from what I have seen anecdotally with some who have been on five or six combat deployments in the Sandbox, *I am getting seriously concerned about the long-term psychological effects on these personnel*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's some real shit right there Gadly, especially the last part. When this is all said and done and our men and women come home, we are going to be in unchartered territory dealing with Troops who have to come face to face with psychological terrors from 5 or 6 combat deployments, that is something we have never seen before, even in Vietnam.
Click to expand...


yep, our men and women are coming home with broken bodies and broken minds. Their care and treatment must be high on the list of national prioities.


----------



## old navy

The Infidel said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> For me, it's not a question of anything other than they violated the Geneva Conventions (desecration of a corpse in combat) as well as have violated the Marine code of good order and discipline.
> 
> Like I said, have a General Courts Martial, check all the evidence and see what happened.  If it was stress induced from multiple deployments, treat 'em and kick 'em out.
> 
> If they did it just because they thought it was cool?  Give 'em brig time and a BCD.
> 
> Either way, they violated the Geneva Conventions and the Marine code of good order and discipline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct.
> 
> I still dont like the fact that it is being made into such a shit storm.
> 
> The guys were silly for video taping their silliness though.
> 
> Its a shame this will be reflected on all of them though.
> Our soldiers are the best of the best regardless of what some may think.
Click to expand...


I agree. This incident is an anomaly and very regretable. Our military branches are the best in the world's history and the Marine Corps will survive. There will be many months of pain and knashing of teeth though until this thing blows over.


----------



## Synthaholic

VaYank5150 said:


> truthsaga said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The humanity that goes into war" - Rumsfeld
> 
> This is more evidence of what effects this continual warfare is having on our troops.  The suicides, the post traumatic stress, and the pressures on the family life.  I wonder who the troops support as their commander and chief?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is a commander and chief?
Click to expand...


----------



## High_Gravity

old navy said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The real question here, is how culpable these Marines are for their actions; we don't have all the answers, but hopefully an investigation and a General Court will carefully look into that, instead of having a knee-jerk reaction to simply make an example of them. I'll tell you this; just from what I have seen anecdotally with some who have been on five or six combat deployments in the Sandbox, *I am getting seriously concerned about the long-term psychological effects on these personnel*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's some real shit right there Gadly, especially the last part. When this is all said and done and our men and women come home, we are going to be in unchartered territory dealing with Troops who have to come face to face with psychological terrors from 5 or 6 combat deployments, that is something we have never seen before, even in Vietnam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yep, our men and women are coming home with broken bodies and broken minds. Their care and treatment must be high on the list of national prioities.
Click to expand...


It better be, but I have a feeling the VA is not going to be ready to deal with this.


----------



## Mr.Nick

SayMyName said:


> I see this two ways. We send people off to kill other people, but we can't urinate on their corpse, which most likely was done by these Marines to "psych out" some nearby enemy supporters watching them.
> 
> We can also look at this just as the Marine Corps spokesman stated, that it does not reflect the core values that are held. In other words, discipline, and the perception that we are better than the enemy, must be maintained.
> 
> I would give them a good talking to for being dumb by getting filmed, then order them to do better in the future. No extra duty assigned as a consequence.



I see this as retribution for how those animals treat our dead solders.

When they manage to get one of our guys bodies they cut the corpse head then drag the headless corpse through the streets while the villagers tear it apart like a pride of lions.

Of course the animal extremists are quite proud of it, yet our pussy terrorist sympathizing government and the military brass go on an apology tour over our soldiers pissing on a corpse??

The US is one pathetic apologetic country...


----------



## ABikerSailor

Mr.Nick said:


> SayMyName said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see this two ways. We send people off to kill other people, but we can't urinate on their corpse, which most likely was done by these Marines to "psych out" some nearby enemy supporters watching them.
> 
> We can also look at this just as the Marine Corps spokesman stated, that it does not reflect the core values that are held. In other words, discipline, and the perception that we are better than the enemy, must be maintained.
> 
> I would give them a good talking to for being dumb by getting filmed, then order them to do better in the future. No extra duty assigned as a consequence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see this as retribution for how those animals treat our dead solders.
> 
> When they manage to get one of our guys bodies they cut the corpse head then drag the headless corpse through the streets while the villagers tear it apart like a pride of lions.
> 
> Of course the animal extremists are quite proud of it, yet our pussy terrorist sympathizing government and the military brass go on an apology tour over our soldiers pissing on a corpse??
> 
> The US is one pathetic apologetic country...
Click to expand...


Got an actual link for that, or are you blaming the Taliban for what happened in Mogadishu during Black Hawk Down?


----------



## paulitician

Me Chinese me play joke me put pee pee in your Coke... Too soon?


----------



## ABikerSailor

Interesting that most people on this thread have no idea about Standards of Conduct or the Geneva Conventions (if you've served, you know what those are as you get annual lectures on them), yet they keep saying that it's okay for those Marines to violate BOTH and they should just get extra duty and a chewing out.

No.  That is not okay, especially since their behavior has turned this into an international incident as well as violated conduct standards and the Geneva Convention.

Like I said..........get all the information together, give 'em a courts martial.  If it was stress induced from too many deployments, treat 'em before kicking 'em out with a BCD (Bad Conduct Discharge).

If they did it because they were showing off?  Brig time and a BCD.


----------



## paulitician

Me Chinese me play joke me put pee pee on your stinky rotting carcas... Still too soon?


----------



## nitroz

bodecea said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> occupied said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you trying somehow to defend this behavior? Indefensible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.... I am defending the Marines!
> 
> THEY ARE NOT MONSTERS!
> 
> Plus... I am not going to judge these guys for their actions. This is nothing compared to what they have seen the ENEMY do to their friends and fellow Marines.
> 
> So yes.... *they were wrong for doing it, but SO THE FUCK WHAT!*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I was with you til that last line.
Click to expand...




Well, it's nothing compared what the taliban do.

Beheaddings
Genocide because others aren't muslim and/or want their freedom
Stonings
Lashes to death
forced marriage
public executions
public hangings
rape
adultery

















THESE IMAGES ARE GRAPHIC!
VIEWER DISCRETION ADVISED! (But I encourage you to still look if you claim that the Marine's actions should be punished to the fullest extent instead of pardoned and given a very small consequence)

Here, a razorblade is taken to a baby's head in the name of islam
http://kamangir.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/r2493103858.jpg

A jewish family slaughtered by the religion of peace
http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/religion-of-peace-murders-1.jpg
http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/religion-of-peace-murders-2.jpg


*CAUTION!!! THESE ARE IMAGES OF BEHEADDED PEOPLE!!!!!!!*

http://barenakedislam.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/thailand-family-children-beheaded.jpg?w=590
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mrxM7PBQy...liJwEztVAY/s1600/tucker_menchaca_beheaded.jpg
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/iraqi_soldier_beheaded_graphic_3.jpg
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/cap2.gif
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/cap3.gif




So don't you fucking dare start that shit, saying we are in the wrong.


----------



## Sunni Man

ABikerSailor said:


> Like I said..........get all the information together, give 'em a courts martial.  If it was stress induced from too many deployments, treat 'em before kicking 'em out with a BCD (Bad Conduct Discharge).
> 
> If they did it because they were showing off?  Brig time and a BCD.


An Article 15 would be more than enough punishment.

Giving them a BCD is way to extreme.  

The punishment should fit the crime.


----------



## The Infidel

Pee on a flag, piss a conservative off....

Pee on a dead terrorist, piss a liberal off....


----------



## The Gadfly

old navy said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The real question here, is how culpable these Marines are for their actions; we don't have all the answers, but hopefully an investigation and a General Court will carefully look into that, instead of having a knee-jerk reaction to simply make an example of them. I'll tell you this; just from what I have seen anecdotally with some who have been on five or six combat deployments in the Sandbox, *I am getting seriously concerned about the long-term psychological effects on these personnel*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's some real shit right there Gadly, especially the last part. When this is all said and done and our men and women come home, we are going to be in unchartered territory dealing with Troops who have to come face to face with psychological terrors from 5 or 6 combat deployments, that is something we have never seen before, even in Vietnam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yep, our men and women are coming home with broken bodies and broken minds. Their care and treatment must be high on the list of national prioities.
Click to expand...


Well, it damn well ought to be, but considering what happened (or more precisely, DID NOT happen) after Vietnam, I'll believe it when I see it. If they treat our physically and mentally wounded like broken equipment for the scrap heap again, I am going to be one seriously pissed-off American vet.


----------



## nitroz

The Infidel said:


> Pee on a flag, piss a conservative off....
> 
> Pee on a dead terrorist, piss a liberal off....



Fuck liberals.

They are only useful for when ACTUAL citizens need it.

Instead they need to be liberal with their own liberalism and stop extending their wrongly directed powers to non-citizens.

Boo-Hoo. Someone's feelings will eventually get hurt.


----------



## The Gadfly

Sunni Man said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said..........get all the information together, give 'em a courts martial.  If it was stress induced from too many deployments, treat 'em before kicking 'em out with a BCD (Bad Conduct Discharge).
> 
> If they did it because they were showing off?  Brig time and a BCD.
> 
> 
> 
> An Article 15 would be more than enough punishment.
> 
> Giving them a BCD is way to extreme.
> 
> The punishment should fit the crime.
Click to expand...


And in the army we served in, Sunni, that's about how it would have been. For better or worse, we have been replaced by the new, politically-correct, PR-conscious military. We, my friend, are officially obsolete. I guess we should feel all warm and fuzzy about that, but somehow, I don't.


----------



## eots

nitroz said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pee on a flag, piss a conservative off....
> 
> Pee on a dead terrorist, piss a liberal off....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck liberals.
> 
> They are only useful for when ACTUAL citizens need it.
> 
> Instead they need to be liberal with their own liberalism and stop extending their wrongly directed powers to non-citizens.
> 
> Boo-Hoo. Someone's feelings will eventually get hurt.
Click to expand...


 blah ,blah, blah what ???


----------



## JStone

Sunni Man said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said..........get all the information together, give 'em a courts martial.  If it was stress induced from too many deployments, treat 'em before kicking 'em out with a BCD (Bad Conduct Discharge).
> 
> If they did it because they were showing off?  Brig time and a BCD.
> 
> 
> 
> An Article 15 would be more than enough punishment.
> 
> Giving them a BCD is way to extreme.
> 
> The punishment should fit the crime.
Click to expand...


A parade should be held for soldiers pissing on muslimes.  Piss and muslime excrement go together.


----------



## The Gadfly

ABikerSailor said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SayMyName said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see this two ways. We send people off to kill other people, but we can't urinate on their corpse, which most likely was done by these Marines to "psych out" some nearby enemy supporters watching them.
> 
> We can also look at this just as the Marine Corps spokesman stated, that it does not reflect the core values that are held. In other words, discipline, and the perception that we are better than the enemy, must be maintained.
> 
> I would give them a good talking to for being dumb by getting filmed, then order them to do better in the future. No extra duty assigned as a consequence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see this as retribution for how those animals treat our dead solders.
> 
> When they manage to get one of our guys bodies they cut the corpse head then drag the headless corpse through the streets while the villagers tear it apart like a pride of lions.
> 
> Of course the animal extremists are quite proud of it, yet our pussy terrorist sympathizing government and the military brass go on an apology tour over our soldiers pissing on a corpse??
> 
> The US is one pathetic apologetic country...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Got an actual link for that, or are you blaming the Taliban for what happened in Mogadishu during Black Hawk Down?
Click to expand...

Remember what happened in Fallujah? (I know it doesn't matter, in the new, post-Vietnam military, but it does illustrate what kind of vermin we are fighting).


----------



## Sunshine

High_Gravity said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know man, after 10 years of this war I think its starting to change us. If I read a story like this before 9/11 I would have found it absolutely horrible, now 10 years into this war I see this video and can hardly blink, and I can even understand why the Marines would do this, although I do agree it is wrong. Things like and the stories about the Air Force hacking off body parts to make bodies fit into caskets, dropping off cremated Soldiers remains into garbage dumps etc, it just tells me we are losing our humanity with this war, these are all things that would absolutely horrify us befor 9/11, now we can read this, maybe condemn it, and than go about our day like nothing. It's fucked up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't agree.  Nurses and doctors see horrible things every day.  We deal by using black humor, but we don't lose our humanity.  And I think if you follow me, I stand up for what I believe to be the right thing.  I've taken plenty of hits on here for it too and not posted one single whine thread!
> 
> We are at war.  It would seem the enemy doesn't have the technology to do to our fighting men what they do to themselves unknowing, of course, that there are so many Americans who are agaisnt them.
> 
> Cameras shouldn't have been in Abu Graibe and they shouldn't be where these guys are!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nurses and Doctors are not in a foreign country fighting for their lives, they do their jobs here in the US and get to go home to their families, that is not a good comparison and those are 2 completely different things, I don't even see how you could compare those 2 career fields, being a Marine Infantry man is nothing like being a medic civilian state side.
Click to expand...



Then you simply are not aware of the horrible things we see on a daily basis.  Nor of the black humor we use to deal with it.  MDs and Nurses are not 'medics.'  Medics only do the fetching and toting.  WE have to deal with the horrors.  Go to a children's cancer unit.  And be the one having to administer an experimental medication.


----------



## Sunni Man

The Gadfly said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said..........get all the information together, give 'em a courts martial.  If it was stress induced from too many deployments, treat 'em before kicking 'em out with a BCD (Bad Conduct Discharge).
> 
> If they did it because they were showing off?  Brig time and a BCD.
> 
> 
> 
> An Article 15 would be more than enough punishment.
> 
> Giving them a BCD is way to extreme.
> 
> The punishment should fit the crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And in the army we served in, Sunni, that's about how it would have been. For better or worse, we have been replaced by the new, politically-correct, PR-conscious military. We, my friend, are officially obsolete. I guess we should feel all warm and fuzzy about that, but somehow, I don't.
Click to expand...

LOL, I know exactly what you mean.

Gadfly we are like Gunny Highway in this movie clip where Major Powers calls him an "anachronism" and a "relic"


----------



## Sunshine

High_Gravity said:


> The real question here, is how culpable these Marines are for their actions; we don't have all the answers, but hopefully an investigation and a General Court will carefully look into that, instead of having a knee-jerk reaction to simply make an example of them. I'll tell you this; just from what I have seen anecdotally with some who have been on five or six combat deployments in the Sandbox, *I am getting seriously concerned about the long-term psychological effects on these personnel*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's some real shit right there Gadly, especially the last part. When this is all said and done and our men and women come home, we are going to be in unchartered territory dealing with Troops who have to come face to face with psychological terrors from 5 or 6 combat deployments, that is something we have never seen before, even in Vietnam.
Click to expand...


But these were not conscripted as the Vietnam vets were.  They joined of their own free will.  Many have signed up for redeployment because that means they have a job and a regular income for their families.  I know one right now who is pissed off he was called back from Afghanistan and is awaiting another deployment elsewhere because he will be working again.  He enlisted.  He was not drafted.  Big difference.


----------



## The Infidel

Sunshine said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The real question here, is how culpable these Marines are for their actions; we don't have all the answers, but hopefully an investigation and a General Court will carefully look into that, instead of having a knee-jerk reaction to simply make an example of them. I'll tell you this; just from what I have seen anecdotally with some who have been on five or six combat deployments in the Sandbox, *I am getting seriously concerned about the long-term psychological effects on these personnel*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's some real shit right there Gadly, especially the last part. When this is all said and done and our men and women come home, we are going to be in unchartered territory dealing with Troops who have to come face to face with psychological terrors from 5 or 6 combat deployments, that is something we have never seen before, even in Vietnam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But these were not conscripted as the Vietnam vets were.  They joined of their own free will.  Many have signed up for redeployment because that means they have a job and a regular income for their families.  I know one right now who is pissed off he was called back from Afghanistan and is awaiting another deployment elsewhere because he will be working again.  He enlisted.  He was not drafted.  Big difference.
Click to expand...



So your saying since they asked for it (ask to be at the tip of the sword for the rest of us) they can come face to face with psychological terrors and deal with it with super human strength.

Nahh... I dont buy it.


----------



## The Gadfly

Sunshine said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The real question here, is how culpable these Marines are for their actions; we don't have all the answers, but hopefully an investigation and a General Court will carefully look into that, instead of having a knee-jerk reaction to simply make an example of them. I'll tell you this; just from what I have seen anecdotally with some who have been on five or six combat deployments in the Sandbox, *I am getting seriously concerned about the long-term psychological effects on these personnel*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's some real shit right there Gadly, especially the last part. When this is all said and done and our men and women come home, we are going to be in unchartered territory dealing with Troops who have to come face to face with psychological terrors from 5 or 6 combat deployments, that is something we have never seen before, even in Vietnam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But these were not conscripted as the Vietnam vets were.  They joined of their own free will.  Many have signed up for redeployment because that means they have a job and a regular income for their families.  I know one right now who is pissed off he was called back from Afghanistan and is awaiting another deployment elsewhere because he will be working again.  He enlisted.  He was not drafted.  Big difference.
Click to expand...


Sunshine, like about two-thirds of us who served in combat in Vietnam, I wasn't drafted either. Neither PTSD nor enemy fire made any distinction between draftee and volunteer, officer and enlisted. Both are equal opportunity destroyers of soldiers, regardless of age, rank or status. Battle is terrifying, for the officer, the NCO, or the conscript private; the first two will try not to show it in order to lead, but they feel it. Everyone has a breaking point, and given enough exposure to combat, anyone, however brave and dedicated, may find his. I suspect virtually all of us who fought in 'Nam have some degree or form of PTSD, and always will. If we are lucky it hasn't destroyed us. I've known draftees who came out in comparatively good shape, and professional soldiers so broken by PTSD that they eventually took their own lives.

In spite of all the advances in diagnosis and treatment of PTSD, these kids today are subject to combat every bit as intense as anything we experienced. In Vietnam, most did only one tour; no one was supposed to serve more than two (thought a comparative few did so). These people are doing more and more frequent deployments, often at a higher operational tempo than we experienced. There's no reason to believe they won't have the same problems we did, if not worse. They will have access to better, earlier, and hopefully more effective treatment than we did; and many of them will need it. I am not willing to see even one of them left to deal with it on his or her own, because I know how that feels; the flashbacks, the nightmares, the depression that comes with feeling it will never end, all of it; and worst of all, the feeling that no one understands, or cares.

We are getting old now, but we were there for each other over there, we've been there for each other back here, and we are going to be there for these kids, supporting them, advocating for them, and looking out for them, as long as there are any of us left.


----------



## Zoom

If you embarrass the military, they will screw you.  Bad.

They are marines and are better than this.  I feel for those guys because they will get a little more than just a "stern talking to".


----------



## logical4u

occupied said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> occupied said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you trying somehow to defend this behavior? Indefensible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.... I am defending the Marines!
> 
> THEY ARE NOT MONSTERS!
> 
> Plus... I am not going to judge these guys for their actions. This is nothing compared to what they have seen the ENEMY do to their friends and fellow Marines.
> 
> So no.... they were wrong for doing it, but SO THE FUCK WHAT!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Other than being soldiers, they are our representatives in a foreign land. This kind of thing reflects very badly on us as a nation and puts their fellow soldiers in danger of retribution from the enemy. You may not judge them but I have no such blind spot, they are doing the kind of thing we went to war to fight and have no business wearing that uniform.
Click to expand...



These guys do not receive "ambassador pay".  They are sent to war to "destroy" the enemy.  If the enemy does not "fear" death, killing them all day does not make a difference.  If "pissing on them" makes them believe they cannot join their god in paradise (therefore what is the use in fighting), that is the tool that needs to be used.  Pershing did something similar in the Phillipines: he ordered muslim bodies to be desecrated with pig's blood, and then released the last one of that bunch of terrorists to get out the word.  If you want to be ugly (deceit, destruction and death), we will "end you" (never get to paradise under "your" beliefs).

We think it is horrible to desecrate the dead.  We are not there.  Our guys are given a mission; we can either tell them what to do or we can tell them how to act.  We cannot tell them both.

How long do you want this "war" to continue?  The islamist extremists have committed their resources and lives to ending all things "Western" (the great Satan), and murdering every Jew.  Just killing islamists will not end the war.  The muslims have huge families, and the families that cannot support their children, well, have those children recruited for terrorism (jihad).  Historically, the only way to stop islamists on the march is to do something to the bodies that (under islamic beliefs) stops them from entering paradise.  "Pissing on them" is probably the least evil way to accomplish this.

But you probably know better, please tell us how to stop islamists from killing us.


----------



## Sunni Man

LOL  desecrating the bodies of dead muslims does zero to keep them from Paradise.

Sure, a hundred years ago in the Phillipines some uneducated superstitious muslims who didn't know their religion were afraid of desecration.

But today that tactic no longer has any affect.


----------



## nitroz

Okay, since we can't piss on them. 


Lets just put some bacon in their mouths instead.


----------



## Crackerjack

nitroz said:


> Okay, since we can't piss on them.
> 
> 
> Lets just put some bacon in their mouths instead.


Why would you waste perfectly good bacon??

Now I'm hungry for bacon, asshole.


----------



## Sunni Man

nitroz said:


> Okay, since we can't piss on them.
> 
> 
> Lets just put some bacon in their mouths instead.


Besides upsetting the local people.

Exactly how would that further the militaries mission?


----------



## nitroz

Crackerjack said:


> nitroz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, since we can't piss on them.
> 
> 
> Lets just put some bacon in their mouths instead.
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you waste perfectly good bacon??
> 
> Now I'm hungry for bacon, asshole.
Click to expand...


idk. they hate bacon.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjnrbVxcRXw]Muslim KFC Worker goes nuts when asked for Bacon! - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## The Infidel

Sunni Man said:


> LOL  desecrating the bodies of dead muslims does zero to keep them from Paradise.
> 
> Sure, a hundred years ago in the Phillipines some uneducated superstitious muslims who didn't know their religion were afraid of desecration.
> 
> But today that tactic no longer has any affect.



Why the Hell did we give Osama a 'proper' burial?


----------



## nitroz

Sunni Man said:


> nitroz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, since we can't piss on them.
> 
> 
> Lets just put some bacon in their mouths instead.
> 
> 
> 
> Besides upsetting the local people.
> 
> Exactly how would that further the militaries mission?
Click to expand...


We aren't getting anywhere in the first place.

They are trying to change islam or water it down. :/



I say just kill the terrorists and contain them in the middle east. 
We will have to stay to take care of any future terrorists.


----------



## The Infidel

Sunni Man said:


> nitroz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, since we can't piss on them.
> 
> 
> Lets just put some bacon in their mouths instead.
> 
> 
> 
> Besides upsetting the local people.
> 
> Exactly how would that further the militaries mission?
Click to expand...


Its like spraying a can of Raid in an old house.... the roaches come out of the woodwork 


Hell, post a pic of the pedophile Mahomed and see what happens


----------



## Crackerjack

nitroz said:


> idk. they hate bacon.
> 
> 
> Muslim KFC Worker goes nuts when asked for Bacon! - YouTube


That was a pretty funny video.

"Bacon?!?  BACON?!?  Mrrahhhhhagh!!  BACON!!!"


----------



## nitroz

Crackerjack said:


> nitroz said:
> 
> 
> 
> idk. they hate bacon.
> 
> 
> Muslim KFC Worker goes nuts when asked for Bacon! - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> That was a pretty funny video.
> 
> "Bacon?!?  BACON?!?  Mrrahhhhhagh!!  BACON!!!"
Click to expand...


told you they hate it.


----------



## The Infidel

nitroz said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nitroz said:
> 
> 
> 
> idk. they hate bacon.
> 
> 
> Muslim KFC Worker goes nuts when asked for Bacon! - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> That was a pretty funny video.
> 
> "Bacon?!?  BACON?!?  Mrrahhhhhagh!!  BACON!!!"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> told you they hate it.
Click to expand...



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug_iluxQ1IQ]It&#39;s Beggin Time - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## nitroz

The Infidel said:


> nitroz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> That was a pretty funny video.
> 
> "Bacon?!?  BACON?!?  Mrrahhhhhagh!!  BACON!!!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> told you they hate it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug_iluxQ1IQ]It's Beggin Time - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...


LOLOLOLOLOLOL

I miss that commercial!!!


----------



## Crackerjack

The Infidel said:


> nitroz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> That was a pretty funny video.
> 
> "Bacon?!?  BACON?!?  Mrrahhhhhagh!!  BACON!!!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> told you they hate it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug_iluxQ1IQ"]It's Beggin Time - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...

This is one reason why I've preferred the company of most dogs over that of many people.


----------



## The Infidel

Crackerjack said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nitroz said:
> 
> 
> 
> told you they hate it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug_iluxQ1IQ"]It's Beggin Time - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is one reason why I've preferred the company of most dogs over that of many people.
Click to expand...




Ironically, mooslums hate dogs too 


MOOslums generally cast dogs in a negative light because of their ritual impurity and their love of all things BACON...!!!


----------



## Synthaholic

Mr.Nick said:


> SayMyName said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see this two ways. We send people off to kill other people, but we can't urinate on their corpse, which most likely was done by these Marines to "psych out" some nearby enemy supporters watching them.
> 
> We can also look at this just as the Marine Corps spokesman stated, that it does not reflect the core values that are held. In other words, discipline, and the perception that we are better than the enemy, must be maintained.
> 
> I would give them a good talking to for being dumb by getting filmed, then order them to do better in the future. No extra duty assigned as a consequence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I see this as retribution for how those animals treat our dead solders.*
> 
> When they manage to get one of our guys bodies they cut the corpse head then drag the headless corpse through the streets while the villagers tear it apart like a pride of lions.
> 
> Of course the animal extremists are quite proud of it, yet our pussy terrorist sympathizing government and the military brass go on an apology tour over our soldiers pissing on a corpse??
> 
> The US is one pathetic apologetic country...
Click to expand...



Because we can show that we are no better than they are?

Is this a race to the bottom?


----------



## Synthaholic

nitroz said:


> Okay, since we can't piss on them.
> 
> 
> Lets just put some bacon in their mouths instead.


What's wrong with just killing them?


----------



## The Infidel

Synthaholic said:


> nitroz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, since we can't piss on them.
> 
> 
> Lets just put some bacon in their mouths instead.
> 
> 
> 
> What's wrong with just killing them?
Click to expand...




To be serious for one sec... its a psychological thing. (I'm guessing)


----------



## Synthaholic

The Infidel said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL  desecrating the bodies of dead muslims does zero to keep them from Paradise.
> 
> Sure, a hundred years ago in the Phillipines some uneducated superstitious muslims who didn't know their religion were afraid of desecration.
> 
> But today that tactic no longer has any affect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why the Hell did we give Osama a 'proper' burial?
Click to expand...

So that his burial would not be another rallying cry for al Qaeda recruitment.  Like Abu Grahab.  Like GTMO.  Like torture.

They are the ones who are supposed to be the animals, not us.


----------



## The Infidel

Synthaholic said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL  desecrating the bodies of dead muslims does zero to keep them from Paradise.
> 
> Sure, a hundred years ago in the Phillipines some uneducated superstitious muslims who didn't know their religion were afraid of desecration.
> 
> But today that tactic no longer has any affect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why the Hell did we give Osama a 'proper' burial?
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So that his burial would not be another rallying cry for al Qaeda recruitment.  Like Abu Grahab.  Like GTMO.  Like torture.
> 
> They are the ones who are supposed to be the animals, not us.
Click to expand...



Oh I see.... so we have been doing this stuff to them for centuries then?

Those animals only need one reason to hate us.... WE ARE ALL INFIDELS in their eyes.

They dont need some sorry ass excuse like those to want us dead.


----------



## The Infidel




----------



## Synthaholic

The Infidel said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nitroz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, since we can't piss on them.
> 
> 
> Lets just put some bacon in their mouths instead.
> 
> 
> 
> What's wrong with just killing them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be serious for one sec... its a psychological thing. (I'm guessing)
Click to expand...

I don't have a problem with them posing, victoriously, with their Taliban kills.  Not "Weekend At Bernie's", propping them up with cigarettes in their mouth, but just a commemoration of the event.

Pissing on them is disgraceful.


----------



## paulitician

Me Chinese me play joke me put pee pee on your stinky rotting carcas... Too soon?


----------



## The Infidel

Synthaholic said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's wrong with just killing them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be serious for one sec... its a psychological thing. (I'm guessing)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't have a problem with them posing, victoriously, with their Taliban kills.  Not "Weekend At Bernie's", propping them up with cigarettes in their mouth, but just a commemoration of the event.
> 
> *Pissing on them is disgraceful*.
Click to expand...



Me... I couldnt do it. I couldnt even pee in front of my probation officer, much less on camera 

Even posing with them... too gruesome for me.

The last thing I am going to do is condemn these guys though.

Hell, in WWII guys scalped the Japs. 

War is Hell is all I can say.


----------



## paulitician

Ever hear the saying,"I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire?" Well those Taliban carcases were clearly on fire. Our boys were actually showing compassion. They were just trying to put the fires out. So cut em some slack and get off their backs.


----------



## Toome

War is ugly, but this isn't the ugliest thing that's ever happened in war.  Yeah, perhaps some measure of discipline is in order but nothing major.  No, I don't condone this type of behavior but I also don't go around pretending that these sort of things don't happen.

I fear that some hard-charging warriors are going to have to pay the price because of faint-hearted pansies who don't understand the brutality that naturally comes with war.


----------



## sfcalifornia

Warrior102 said:


> Is the U.S. enraging Muslims and Liberals again?
> 
> *sniff sniff*



Since you're too much of a pussy to accept visitor messages:

You can neg rep away ALL of my rep power because once I don't have any, you'll have to argue with me with your brain instead of the stroke of a keyboard and _that_ should be good for a laugh!!  LOL

You sure do use ass a lot in your insults, have you noticed?  Anally-fixated much?

So you like it when US soldiers urinate on dead corpses?  Do you feel the same way when the Taliban or al Qaeda urinates on dead American soldiers?  Two wrongs make a right?


----------



## The Infidel

sfcalifornia said:


> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is the U.S. enraging Muslims and Liberals again?
> 
> *sniff sniff*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you're too much of a pussy to accept visitor messages:
> 
> You can neg rep away ALL of my rep power because once I don't have any, you'll have to argue with me with your brain instead of the stroke of a keyboard and _that_ should be good for a laugh!!  LOL
> 
> You sure do use ass a lot in your insults, have you noticed?  Anally-fixated much?
> 
> So you like it when US soldiers urinate on dead corpses?  Do you feel the same way when the Taliban or al Qaeda urinates on dead American soldiers?  Two wrongs make a right?
Click to expand...




Here, is this better?

 *sfcalifornia*


----------



## sfcalifornia

The Infidel said:


> sfcalifornia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is the U.S. enraging Muslims and Liberals again?
> 
> *sniff sniff*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you're too much of a pussy to accept visitor messages:
> 
> You can neg rep away ALL of my rep power because once I don't have any, you'll have to argue with me with your brain instead of the stroke of a keyboard and _that_ should be good for a laugh!!  LOL
> 
> You sure do use ass a lot in your insults, have you noticed?  Anally-fixated much?
> 
> So you like it when US soldiers urinate on dead corpses?  Do you feel the same way when the Taliban or al Qaeda urinates on dead American soldiers?  Two wrongs make a right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here, is this better?
> 
> *sfcalifornia*
Click to expand...


You mean three wrongs make a right?  LOL  Yeah...  sure...


----------



## The Infidel

sfcalifornia said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sfcalifornia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since you're too much of a pussy to accept visitor messages:
> 
> You can neg rep away ALL of my rep power because once I don't have any, you'll have to argue with me with your brain instead of the stroke of a keyboard and _that_ should be good for a laugh!!  LOL
> 
> You sure do use ass a lot in your insults, have you noticed?  Anally-fixated much?
> 
> So you like it when US soldiers urinate on dead corpses?  Do you feel the same way when the Taliban or al Qaeda urinates on dead American soldiers?  Two wrongs make a right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here, is this better?
> 
> *sfcalifornia*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean three wrongs make a right?  LOL  Yeah...  sure...
Click to expand...




Nope.... but it sure was fun!


----------



## Liability

We all know that the Marines in question "done wrong."   Bad training?  Bad manners?  Poor discipline?

On the other hand, to be blunt, it is more than passing strange that so many people pretend to care all that much.

I mean, truth be told, the fuckers were already lying there all dead and shit.  Nature was getting started on the road to decomposition which makes a urine stream seem like a bath.

And it is just a bunch of fucking Taliban scumbags, anyway.  What those scumbags do to living people is far more depraved than the petty act of pissing on their corpses could ever be.

Bottom line?  I find it difficult to believe this is worth getting worked up over.  

And Mohammed (PB&J) was a racist, hate-filled, psychotic, pedophile, murdering, savage asshole, too.


----------



## Warrior102

Ancient lion said:


> The United States Marine Corps is launching an investigation into a video which appears to show Marines in full combat gear urinating on several dead bodies ... TMZ has learned.
> 
> In the extremely graphic video, which appeared on various websites this morning, at least 4 male Marines expose their genitals and urinate on the bodies.
> 
> The mystery person who posted the video included a caption that reads, "scout sniper team 4 with 3rd battalion 2nd marines out of camp lejeune peeing on dead talibans."
> 
> Now, Captain Kendra N. Hardesty -- a Media Officer for the USMC -- tells us, "While we have not yet verified the origin or authenticity of this video, the actions portrayed are not consistent with our core values and are not indicative of the character of the Marines in our Corps."
> 
> 
> 
> The video
> U.S. Marines to Launch Investigation into Soldiers Urinating on Dead Bodies | TMZ.com
Click to expand...


They're not Soldiers diumbfuck


----------



## The Infidel

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-lY4OHD6P8]Family Guy Everybody Pee Now - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## nitroz

The Infidel said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nitroz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, since we can't piss on them.
> 
> 
> Lets just put some bacon in their mouths instead.
> 
> 
> 
> What's wrong with just killing them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be serious for one sec... its a psychological thing. (I'm guessing)
Click to expand...


yep.

It's kinda funny, though.


They might start some silly shit over the bacon.


----------



## The Gadfly

sfcalifornia said:


> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is the U.S. enraging Muslims and Liberals again?
> 
> *sniff sniff*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you're too much of a pussy to accept visitor messages:
> 
> You can neg rep away ALL of my rep power because once I don't have any, you'll have to argue with me with your brain instead of the stroke of a keyboard and _that_ should be good for a laugh!!  LOL
> 
> You sure do use ass a lot in your insults, have you noticed?  Anally-fixated much?
> 
> So you like it when US soldiers urinate on dead corpses?  Do you feel the same way when the Taliban or al Qaeda urinates on dead American soldiers?  Two wrongs make a right?
Click to expand...


I tell you what; you name me ONE enemy we have fought since WW II, that paid ANY attention whatever to the Geneva Conventions or any of the other niceties our troops are now FORCED to observe (primarily for the purpose of placating the uninformed opinions of  a permanent civilian public who have ZERO understanding of the emotions a soldier feels in combat), and we can talk about right and wrong. Alternatively, you can put your own combat experience out here, and we can talk about right and wrong. Until then, whether the new, politically correct military that came out of the decade after Vietnam learned the right lessons from that conflict and its aftermath is a matter of opinion, and my opinion is that I am getting a bit tired of troops being pilloried in the court of public opinion, here and abroad, so people like you can FEEL good.


----------



## Crackerjack

The Gadfly said:


> I tell you what; you name me ONE enemy we have fought since WW II, that paid ANY attention whatever to the Geneva Conventions or any of the other niceties our troops are now FORCED to observe (primarily for the purpose of placating the uninformed opinions of  a permanent civilian public who have ZERO understanding of the emotions a soldier feels in combat), and we can talk about right and wrong. Alternatively, you can put your own combat experience out here, and we can talk about right and wrong. Until then, whether the new, politically correct military that came out of the decade after Vietnam learned the right lessons from that conflict and its aftermath is a matter of opinion, and my opinion is that I am getting a bit tired of troops being pilloried in the court of public opinion, here and abroad, so people like you can FEEL good.


I don't disagree with the sentiment, but the problem is that we're the good guys.  What makes us different than our enemies is that we _don't_ act like animals and we _don't_ tolerate soldiers who, for whatever reason, cave to their baser instincts.  I've never served in the military, so I won't pretend to have any idea what the stress of combat does to a man's mind and body.  But I don't think it's unreasonable to advocate that there be a standard of conduct that a soldier follows in a war zone with respect to the enemy.  I'm not exactly wringing my hands in anxiety over a couple of marines taking a leak on some dead Talibans, but I do think that it's an action that those in charge need to warn those at the tip of the spear against doing, as it's a lot easier to send a gentle message now on a mostly insignificant thing than it is to wait until we have another My Lai or the like and have to wind up sending soldiers to Leavenworth.

I understand the frustration, but I'm afraid of the pendulum swinging too far in one direction or the other.  All I'm really asking for is a professional fighting force, which, for the most part I think we've had so far throughout our country's existence.


----------



## nitroz

sfcalifornia said:


> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is the U.S. enraging Muslims and Liberals again?
> 
> *sniff sniff*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you're too much of a pussy to accept visitor messages:
> 
> You can neg rep away ALL of my rep power because once I don't have any, you'll have to argue with me with your brain instead of the stroke of a keyboard and _that_ should be good for a laugh!!  LOL
> 
> You sure do use ass a lot in your insults, have you noticed?  Anally-fixated much?
> 
> So you like it when US soldiers urinate on dead corpses?  Do you feel the same way when the Taliban or al Qaeda urinates on dead American soldiers?  Two wrongs make a right?
Click to expand...


He has ALWAYS been a cowardly asshole.

Report the negative rep abuse to a moderator or shoot some back his way.



(Honestly, I encourage everyone to give negative rep to warrior102. The asswipe deserves it and abusively gives negative rep with hateful or obscene messages.)


----------



## nitroz

disagreement shouldn't lead to abuse.

Negative rep is only for those who are childish or treat you with absolutely no respect.


----------



## nitroz

The Infidel said:


> sfcalifornia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is the U.S. enraging Muslims and Liberals again?
> 
> *sniff sniff*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you're too much of a pussy to accept visitor messages:
> 
> You can neg rep away ALL of my rep power because once I don't have any, you'll have to argue with me with your brain instead of the stroke of a keyboard and _that_ should be good for a laugh!!  LOL
> 
> You sure do use ass a lot in your insults, have you noticed?  Anally-fixated much?
> 
> So you like it when US soldiers urinate on dead corpses?  Do you feel the same way when the Taliban or al Qaeda urinates on dead American soldiers?  Two wrongs make a right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here, is this better?
> 
> *Warrior102*
> 
> better
Click to expand...


----------



## The Gadfly

Crackerjack said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I tell you what; you name me ONE enemy we have fought since WW II, that paid ANY attention whatever to the Geneva Conventions or any of the other niceties our troops are now FORCED to observe (primarily for the purpose of placating the uninformed opinions of  a permanent civilian public who have ZERO understanding of the emotions a soldier feels in combat), and we can talk about right and wrong. Alternatively, you can put your own combat experience out here, and we can talk about right and wrong. Until then, whether the new, politically correct military that came out of the decade after Vietnam learned the right lessons from that conflict and its aftermath is a matter of opinion, and my opinion is that I am getting a bit tired of troops being pilloried in the court of public opinion, here and abroad, so people like you can FEEL good.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't disagree with the sentiment, but the problem is that we're the good guys.  What makes us different than our enemies is that we _don't_ act like animals and we _don't_ tolerate soldiers who, for whatever reason, cave to their baser instincts.  I've never served in the military, so I won't pretend to have any idea what the stress of combat does to a man's mind and body.  But I don't think it's unreasonable to advocate that there be a standard of conduct that a soldier follows in a war zone with respect to the enemy.  I'm not exactly wringing my hands in anxiety over a couple of marines taking a leak on some dead Talibans, but I do think that it's an action that those in charge need to warn those at the tip of the spear against doing, as it's a lot easier to send a gentle message now on a mostly insignificant thing than it is to wait until we have another My Lai or the like and have to wind up sending soldiers to Leavenworth.
> 
> I understand the frustration, but I'm afraid of the pendulum swinging too far in one direction or the other.  All I'm really asking for is a professional fighting force, which, for the most part I think we've had so far throughout our country's existence.
Click to expand...


I don't completely disagree with what you're saying. As I mentioned in an earlier post, we can't let our troops simply run amok in combat, no matter how nasty it gets. I've seen the results, where that was allowed to happen. My Lai, and a number of lesser atrocities and excesses, occurred precisely because of a lack of discipline and leadership. The kind of military we have today, a smaller, professional force with a stronger emphasis on values and ethics, in part represents an attempt to prevent such things. I can understand ABS and others who have served under that system buying into it, and being emotionally invested in it (as they should be, if they were going to serve in it). At the same timeI am well aware of the emotions combat against an enemy who routinely commits atrocities that make My Lai look tame create in the troops who have to fight them. I'll freely admit that I saw the Cong and the NVA as something less then human; if you had seen the things they did, you might feel the same. The current enemy is little different; if anything, he is worse. It is asking a lot, to ask a man to fight and kill such an enemy, and then, when the fight is over to switch off the hatred, and be humane, compassionate, and decent with his dead and wounded. That runs smack up against human nature, and ugly things are bound to happen, and in spite of everything, they inevitably will. In this age, sometimes those ugly things get splashed all across the net and the media, for everyone to see. That's what happened here.

The problem I have, is that some here want to send the men who did this straight to the Navy/Marine Corps equivalent of Leavenworth. That seems excessive, to me. Administrative punishment, and a reprimand; absolutely; but sending them to the brig and giving them BCD's is overkill. Chew them out? You bet, but scapegoating them to pacify civilian sensitivities is another matter entirely.


----------



## Katzndogz

No one wins wars by being the nice guy.  Part of warfare is psychological.  That what we have forgotten.  Part of winning wars is to break the will to fight.  This is what's done to us, but we are much too nice to do it to them.

To win a war against a barbaric culture,  we must be more barbaric than them, to fight on their terms.  Otherwise we are weak, more fearful of our own punishments than theirs.

Our actions against these young men is a travesty, disgusting.


----------



## Katzndogz

Crackerjack said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I tell you what; you name me ONE enemy we have fought since WW II, that paid ANY attention whatever to the Geneva Conventions or any of the other niceties our troops are now FORCED to observe (primarily for the purpose of placating the uninformed opinions of  a permanent civilian public who have ZERO understanding of the emotions a soldier feels in combat), and we can talk about right and wrong. Alternatively, you can put your own combat experience out here, and we can talk about right and wrong. Until then, whether the new, politically correct military that came out of the decade after Vietnam learned the right lessons from that conflict and its aftermath is a matter of opinion, and my opinion is that I am getting a bit tired of troops being pilloried in the court of public opinion, here and abroad, so people like you can FEEL good.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't disagree with the sentiment, but the problem is that we're the good guys.  What makes us different than our enemies is that we _don't_ act like animals and we _don't_ tolerate soldiers who, for whatever reason, cave to their baser instincts.  I've never served in the military, so I won't pretend to have any idea what the stress of combat does to a man's mind and body.  But I don't think it's unreasonable to advocate that there be a standard of conduct that a soldier follows in a war zone with respect to the enemy.  I'm not exactly wringing my hands in anxiety over a couple of marines taking a leak on some dead Talibans, but I do think that it's an action that those in charge need to warn those at the tip of the spear against doing, as it's a lot easier to send a gentle message now on a mostly insignificant thing than it is to wait until we have another My Lai or the like and have to wind up sending soldiers to Leavenworth.
> 
> I understand the frustration, but I'm afraid of the pendulum swinging too far in one direction or the other.  All I'm really asking for is a professional fighting force, which, for the most part I think we've had so far throughout our country's existence.
Click to expand...


This is what happens when politicians run wars instead of warriors.   One would think that the civilian politicos are looking to the taliban for votes instead of protecting Americans in battle.


----------



## Crackerjack

Katzndogz said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I tell you what; you name me ONE enemy we have fought since WW II, that paid ANY attention whatever to the Geneva Conventions or any of the other niceties our troops are now FORCED to observe (primarily for the purpose of placating the uninformed opinions of  a permanent civilian public who have ZERO understanding of the emotions a soldier feels in combat), and we can talk about right and wrong. Alternatively, you can put your own combat experience out here, and we can talk about right and wrong. Until then, whether the new, politically correct military that came out of the decade after Vietnam learned the right lessons from that conflict and its aftermath is a matter of opinion, and my opinion is that I am getting a bit tired of troops being pilloried in the court of public opinion, here and abroad, so people like you can FEEL good.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't disagree with the sentiment, but the problem is that we're the good guys.  What makes us different than our enemies is that we _don't_ act like animals and we _don't_ tolerate soldiers who, for whatever reason, cave to their baser instincts.  I've never served in the military, so I won't pretend to have any idea what the stress of combat does to a man's mind and body.  But I don't think it's unreasonable to advocate that there be a standard of conduct that a soldier follows in a war zone with respect to the enemy.  I'm not exactly wringing my hands in anxiety over a couple of marines taking a leak on some dead Talibans, but I do think that it's an action that those in charge need to warn those at the tip of the spear against doing, as it's a lot easier to send a gentle message now on a mostly insignificant thing than it is to wait until we have another My Lai or the like and have to wind up sending soldiers to Leavenworth.
> 
> I understand the frustration, but I'm afraid of the pendulum swinging too far in one direction or the other.  All I'm really asking for is a professional fighting force, which, for the most part I think we've had so far throughout our country's existence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is what happens when politicians run wars instead of warriors.   One would think that the civilian politicos are looking to the taliban for votes instead of protecting Americans in battle.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm all for the Taliban.  You got me pegged.  

Fucking idiot ...


----------



## Douger

High_Gravity said:


> This is all over the web now, this isn't good. These Marines can kiss their careers goodbye, people will want heads on a platter for this.


Meat heads. Meat platter.
 The various law "enforcement' Nazi's and private security freaks will welcome them with open arms........if not ? The TSA will take anyone with a pulse.


----------



## Sunshine

So what about if the soldiers had scalped those dead people?  Would that have enraged so many?  Of course, I have to agree with Liablity, about being amazed there are so many who act like they give a shit.


----------



## ABikerSailor

I'll put it simple for you civilians that think pissing on dead combatants is a good thing, as well as remind those who actually have served who also think pissing on the dead is a good thing..........

Whatever happened to following orders of those appointed over you?  What about following the Geneva Conventions like they're supposed to?  What about the Code of Conduct briefings that every military member receives annually?

We should just throw all those rules out and start acting like the Taliban?

Listen.  The Geneva Conventions were put in place BECAUSE of crap like this going on during wartime.  Any country that is a NATO country is expected to follow them.

To the best of my understanding, the Taliban and the Viet Cong never signed onto the conventions, which is why they ignore them.

The military I was part of from 1982 until 2002 (and yeah.......I saw conflict starting with Beruit in '83) followed the rules and provided humane treatment of prisoners, as well as didn't desecrate the dead.

Sad to see that so many people think the rules should be thrown out.


----------



## Sunshine

ABikerSailor said:


> I'll put it simple for you civilians that think pissing on dead combatants is a good thing, as well as remind those who actually have served who also think pissing on the dead is a good thing..........
> 
> Whatever happened to following orders of those appointed over you?  What about following the Geneva Conventions like they're supposed to?  What about the Code of Conduct briefings that every military member receives annually?
> 
> We should just throw all those rules out and start acting like the Taliban?
> 
> Listen.  The Geneva Conventions were put in place BECAUSE of crap like this going on during wartime.  Any country that is a NATO country is expected to follow them.
> 
> To the best of my understanding, the Taliban and the Viet Cong never signed onto the conventions, which is why they ignore them.
> 
> The military I was part of from 1982 until 2002 (and yeah.......I saw conflict starting with Beruit in '83) followed the rules and provided humane treatment of prisoners, as well as didn't desecrate the dead.
> 
> Sad to see that so many people think the rules should be thrown out.



What about scalping?


----------



## ABikerSailor

Sunshine said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll put it simple for you civilians that think pissing on dead combatants is a good thing, as well as remind those who actually have served who also think pissing on the dead is a good thing..........
> 
> Whatever happened to following orders of those appointed over you?  What about following the Geneva Conventions like they're supposed to?  What about the Code of Conduct briefings that every military member receives annually?
> 
> We should just throw all those rules out and start acting like the Taliban?
> 
> Listen.  The Geneva Conventions were put in place BECAUSE of crap like this going on during wartime.  Any country that is a NATO country is expected to follow them.
> 
> To the best of my understanding, the Taliban and the Viet Cong never signed onto the conventions, which is why they ignore them.
> 
> The military I was part of from 1982 until 2002 (and yeah.......I saw conflict starting with Beruit in '83) followed the rules and provided humane treatment of prisoners, as well as didn't desecrate the dead.
> 
> Sad to see that so many people think the rules should be thrown out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about scalping?
Click to expand...


That is desecration of the dead.


----------



## Sunshine

ABikerSailor said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll put it simple for you civilians that think pissing on dead combatants is a good thing, as well as remind those who actually have served who also think pissing on the dead is a good thing..........
> 
> Whatever happened to following orders of those appointed over you?  What about following the Geneva Conventions like they're supposed to?  What about the Code of Conduct briefings that every military member receives annually?
> 
> We should just throw all those rules out and start acting like the Taliban?
> 
> Listen.  The Geneva Conventions were put in place BECAUSE of crap like this going on during wartime.  Any country that is a NATO country is expected to follow them.
> 
> To the best of my understanding, the Taliban and the Viet Cong never signed onto the conventions, which is why they ignore them.
> 
> The military I was part of from 1982 until 2002 (and yeah.......I saw conflict starting with Beruit in '83) followed the rules and provided humane treatment of prisoners, as well as didn't desecrate the dead.
> 
> Sad to see that so many people think the rules should be thrown out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about scalping?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is desecration of the dead.
Click to expand...


Scalping - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> Scalping is often associated with frontier warfare in North America, and was practiced by Native Americans, colonists, and frontiersmen across centuries of violent conflict. Some Mexican (e.g., Sonora and Chihuahua) and American territories (e.g., Arizona) paid bounties for enemy Native American scalps.[1] Contrary to popular belief, scalping was far from universal amongst Native Americans.[2]





> North America
> Buffalo hunter Ralph Morrison was killed and scalped December 7, 1868, near Fort Dodge, Kansas, by Cheyennes. The photo is by William S. Soule. Officer is Lt Reade of the 3rd Infantry {left} and John O. Austin Chief of scouts at right.[8]Certain tribes of Native Americans practiced scalping, in some instances up until the end of the 19th century. According to Haines and Steckel (2000), "Probably the most dramatic skeletal example of prehistoric violence in North America comes from the Crow Creek site in central South Dakota. Archaeological excavations revealed about 486 skeletons within a fortification ditch on the periphery of the habitation area. The site represents the Initial Coalescent period and dates to about 1325 A.D. P. Willey's analysis revealed that 90% of the individuals had cut marks characteristic of scalping."[9]
> 
> In the 1710s and 1720s, New France engaged in frontier warfare with the Natchez people and the Meskwaki people.
> 
> While scalping was used in the Pequot War, scalping did not appear in the laws of the American colonies until the mid-1760s. [10] According to historian John Grenier, scalping became one of the three pillars of American frontier warfare during the colonial period (the other two were ranging and extirpative war).[11]
> 
> [edit] Colonial WarsThere were six colonial wars with New England and the Iroquois Confederacy fighting New France and the Wabanaki Confederacy over a seventy-four year period, starting with King William's War in 1689 (See the French and Indian Wars, Father Rale's War and Father Le Loutre's War). Frontier warfare (i.e., scalping) against families was the approach to warfare used by all parties during these wars.[12]
> 
> 
> 1890 photograph of Robert McGee, scalped as a child by Sioux Chief Little Turtle, in 1864.During Queen Anne's War, by 1703, the Massachusetts Bay Colony was offering $60 for each native scalp.[13] During Father Rale's War (1722&#8211;1725), on August 8, 1722, Massachusettes put a bounty on native families.[14] Ranger John Lovewell is known to have conducted scalp-hunting expeditions, the most famous being the Battle of Pequawket in New Hampshire.
> 
> During King George's War, in response to repeated massacres of British families by the French and their native allies, Governor of Massachusetts William Shirley reluctantly issued a bounty for the scalps of Indian men, women, and children (1744).[15]
> 
> During Father Le Loutre's War and the French and Indian War in Nova Scotia and Acadia, French colonists offered payments to Indians for British scalps.[16] In 1749, British Governor Edward Cornwallis offered payment to New England Rangers for Indian scalps. Both the Mi'kmaq people and the British killed combatants and non-combatants (i.e., women, children and infants). During the French and Indian War, Governor of Nova Scotia Charles Lawrence also offered a reward for male Mi'kmaq scalps in 1756.[17]
> 
> 
> Indian Warrior with Scalp, 1789, by Barlow.During the French and Indian War, in June 12, 1755, Lieutenant Governor Spencer Phips of Massachusetts Bay colony was offering a bounty of £40 for a male Indian scalp, and £20 for scalps of females or of children under 12 years old.[18] In 1756, Pennsylvania Governor Morris, in his Declaration of War against the Lenni Lenape (Delaware) people, offered "130 Pieces of Eight, for the Scalp of Every Male Indian Enemy, above the Age of Twelve Years," and "50 Pieces of Eight for the Scalp of Every Indian Woman, produced as evidence of their being killed."[19]
> 
> [edit] American RevolutionIn the American Revolutionary War, Henry Hamilton, the British lieutenant-governor of Province of Quebec (1763-1791), was known by American Patriots as the "hair-buyer general" because they believed he encouraged and paid his Native American allies to scalp American settlers. When Hamilton was captured in the war by the colonists, he was treated as a war criminal instead of a prisoner of war because of this. However, American historians have conceded that there was no positive proof that he had ever offered rewards for scalps.[20] It is now assumed that during the American Revolution, no British officer paid for scalps.[21]
> 
> 
> Native American Big Mouth Spring with decorated scalp lock on right shoulder. 1910 photograph by Edward S. CurtisSupposedly, General Custer (who was known for his hair) was not scalped after the Battle of the Little Bighorn because he was deemed filthy in the eyes of the Sioux &#8211; to lay hands on him would sully the hands of the warrior.[22]
> 
> Some scalping incidents even occurred during the American Civil War; for example, Confederate guerrillas led by Bloody Bill Anderson were well known for decorating their saddles with the scalps of Union soldiers they had killed.[23] Archie Clement had the reputation of being Anderson&#8217;s &#8220;chief scalper&#8221;.



Scalping has been practiced extensively in war.  Largely by Native Americans.  But commissioned by others as well.  So now you offend Native Americans.


----------



## gallantwarrior

High_Gravity said:


> This is all over the web now, this isn't good. These Marines can kiss their careers goodbye, people will want heads on a platter for this.



And more the shame.  Where's the outrage about what the Taliban does to its prisoners?  I'm sure these peons asses will cover those of higher-ranking asses.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

ABikerSailor said:


> I'll put it simple for you civilians that think pissing on dead combatants is a good thing, as well as remind those who actually have served who also think pissing on the dead is a good thing..........
> 
> Whatever happened to following orders of those appointed over you?  What about following the Geneva Conventions like they're supposed to?  What about the Code of Conduct briefings that every military member receives annually?
> 
> We should just throw all those rules out and start acting like the Taliban?
> 
> Listen.  The Geneva Conventions were put in place BECAUSE of crap like this going on during wartime.  Any country that is a NATO country is expected to follow them.
> 
> To the best of my understanding, the Taliban and the Viet Cong never signed onto the conventions, which is why they ignore them.
> 
> The military I was part of from 1982 until 2002 (and yeah.......I saw conflict starting with Beruit in '83) followed the rules and provided humane treatment of prisoners, as well as didn't desecrate the dead.
> 
> Sad to see that so many people think the rules should be thrown out.



Well lets see here...according to the Geneva Convention I should have been running around Vietnam _without_ a weapon but _with_  big red and white targets painted on my chest, back, and head. If you know of anyone who did that and survived I would like to hear about them.


----------



## The Gadfly

ABikerSailor said:


> I'll put it simple for you civilians that think pissing on dead combatants is a good thing, as well as remind those who actually have served who also think pissing on the dead is a good thing..........
> 
> Whatever happened to following orders of those appointed over you?  What about following the Geneva Conventions like they're supposed to?  What about the Code of Conduct briefings that every military member receives annually?
> 
> We should just throw all those rules out and start acting like the Taliban?
> 
> Listen.  The Geneva Conventions were put in place BECAUSE of crap like this going on during wartime.  Any country that is a NATO country is expected to follow them.
> 
> To the best of my understanding, the Taliban and the Viet Cong never signed onto the conventions, which is why they ignore them.
> 
> The military I was part of from 1982 until 2002 (and yeah.......I saw conflict starting with Beruit in '83) followed the rules and provided humane treatment of prisoners, as well as didn't desecrate the dead.
> 
> Sad to see that so many people think the rules should be thrown out.



You served in the military that pretty much re-invented itself after Vietnam. It's a bit different from the military that preceded it. Instead of being designed primarily to beat any potential adversary into the ground in an all-out war until he surrenders unconditionally, this system was designed by TPTB at the time to primarily fight limited conflicts with limited  (read political) objectives. It was assumed that Vietnam was the model for such conflicts, and accordingly, changes were made to reflect what were supposed to be lessons learned from that conflict. One of these was that (again supposedly) that conflict had been lost by loss of public support. All these "values and ethics" lectures, along with new ROE were conceived to make war-fighting more palatable to world opinion, and public opinion at home. Along with this came a migration to a smaller, technologically augmented professional force. Because the "hearts and minds" approach had met with some (limited) success in Vietnam, that was to be a preferred approach in future. The end product was a military force that was to be far more image-conscious and media-friendly, in keeping with the new "media-age". That, (one supposes) is what the civilians wanted, and they got it. Those were the values inculcated in you in training, you bought into them (as indeed you should have), and invested a career in them. Well and good.

As it turned out, most of this has worked out well enough in the conflicts we have faced since: they have been of the nature predicted, whether by choice, or limitations of the system.  Of course, there have been a few embarrassments, mostly when the new way of doing things bumped up against the realities of ground combat, but these were resolved rather easily by scapegoating the relatively few personnel involved, complete with draconian punishment of the same; after all what was the sacrifice of a few for the good of the institution. Of course, we have not had to fight a war where the only acceptable outcome was total victory, but of course, THAT will never happen...we hope.

AT this point, I'm going to ask some rather heretical questions that either were not asked, or were shouted down during the "re-invention". The first of these, is whether or not the entire concept of "limited war with limited objectives" is sound to begin with. One could ask, after the failure in Vietnam, a failure not on the battlefield, but rather a failure of civilian policy,  leadership and will, whether the fault lay with the military's approach to the conflict, or with the civilian-generated concept of limited war itself. It is fair to ask whether a military doctrine that accepts or even encourages that methodology as an alternative to total victory is sound, whether it is as effective as national policy as the alternative, and whether it does not generate more unnecessary conflicts and attendant casualties. In simple terms, is "limited war" the best and most efficient way to wield national power, or does the apparent ease of it only encourage more of the same?

The second,question, is whether the Geneva Conventions are worth the paper they are written on, considering that we and our allies are the only nations on the planet that actually observe them)? It is fair to ask whether the mostly illusory protection accorded to our own personnel by the Conventions is in fact worth giving up the demoralizing effect upon the enemy which could be achieved by waging war on him without restraint, specifically by targeting his cultural, religious, and societal fears, inhibitions and sensitivities. (We could, of course, expect the same from the enemy, but that, after all, is precisely what we get now anyway.)

I don't suppose I need mention the failures of nation-building, and the abuse of military personnel by in effect using them as diplomats and police, or that we ought to ask whether presenting the politicians with the opportunity was something that should have been questioned in the beginning.

Last but not least, (and I know this is the ultimate heresy of them all), does what has happened in the last fifty years really tell us that war is too important to be left to civilians, and that once war is declared, perhaps the conduct of it should be left entirely to the military chain of command? 

Unpleasant and inconvenient questions, perhaps, but just maybe they should be asked, in light of a half-century of conflicts with many casualties and very mixed results, several absolute debacles of civilian leadership (by BOTH political parties), and yet another incident where lofty standards (however noble) collide with the realities of the battlefield.


----------



## sfcalifornia

The Gadfly said:


> sfcalifornia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is the U.S. enraging Muslims and Liberals again?
> 
> *sniff sniff*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you're too much of a pussy to accept visitor messages:
> 
> You can neg rep away ALL of my rep power because once I don't have any, you'll have to argue with me with your brain instead of the stroke of a keyboard and _that_ should be good for a laugh!!  LOL
> 
> You sure do use ass a lot in your insults, have you noticed?  Anally-fixated much?
> 
> So you like it when US soldiers urinate on dead corpses?  Do you feel the same way when the Taliban or al Qaeda urinates on dead American soldiers?  Two wrongs make a right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I tell you what; you name me ONE enemy we have fought since WW II, that paid ANY attention whatever to the Geneva Conventions or any of the other niceties our troops are now FORCED to observe (primarily for the purpose of placating the uninformed opinions of  a permanent civilian public who have ZERO understanding of the emotions a soldier feels in combat), and we can talk about right and wrong. Alternatively, you can put your own combat experience out here, and we can talk about right and wrong. Until then, whether the new, politically correct military that came out of the decade after Vietnam learned the right lessons from that conflict and its aftermath is a matter of opinion, and my opinion is that I am getting a bit tired of troops being pilloried in the court of public opinion, here and abroad, so people like you can FEEL good.
Click to expand...


So people like me can FEEL good?  About what?  

Don't be so quick to judge.  People like me can imagine soldiers, whether American or Taliban, so filled with hate for the enemy, that it would drive them to urinate on each other corpses.  There is a difference between American soldiers and Taliban soldiers though.  We're supposed to be the civilized ones.


----------



## Cowman

Let's rape their corpses too to show not only our dominance, but also our sexual dominance.


----------



## The Gadfly

sfcalifornia said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sfcalifornia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since you're too much of a pussy to accept visitor messages:
> 
> You can neg rep away ALL of my rep power because once I don't have any, you'll have to argue with me with your brain instead of the stroke of a keyboard and _that_ should be good for a laugh!!  LOL
> 
> You sure do use ass a lot in your insults, have you noticed?  Anally-fixated much?
> 
> So you like it when US soldiers urinate on dead corpses?  Do you feel the same way when the Taliban or al Qaeda urinates on dead American soldiers?  Two wrongs make a right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tell you what; you name me ONE enemy we have fought since WW II, that paid ANY attention whatever to the Geneva Conventions or any of the other niceties our troops are now FORCED to observe (primarily for the purpose of placating the uninformed opinions of  a permanent civilian public who have ZERO understanding of the emotions a soldier feels in combat), and we can talk about right and wrong. Alternatively, you can put your own combat experience out here, and we can talk about right and wrong. Until then, whether the new, politically correct military that came out of the decade after Vietnam learned the right lessons from that conflict and its aftermath is a matter of opinion, and my opinion is that I am getting a bit tired of troops being pilloried in the court of public opinion, here and abroad, so people like you can FEEL good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So people like me can FEEL good?  About what?
> 
> Don't be so quick to judge.  People like me can imagine soldiers, whether American or Taliban, so filled with hate for the enemy, that it would drive them to urinate on each other corpses.  There is a difference between American soldiers and Taliban soldiers though.  We're supposed to be the civilized ones.
Click to expand...


You know, that last sentence is a really nice sentiment. There's only one little problem with it: the violence, fear, sheer brutality and terror of infantry combat has a way of stripping the veneer of civilization, even the basic humanity, right off a man-ANY man from ANY country. Try to imagine, when your entire world is reduced to a few feet of dirt, the men around you, and the enemy, and you are fighting for your life, just how civilized ANYONE is. Because that is the reality of it; in intense combat, you are NOT fighting for God, country, flag, the honor of the service, or your girl back home; you are fighting for your life and the lives of your buddies, because that is the only thing that has any meaning at all in those moments. Don't lecture me about being "civilized"-not after I've seen even the best of men reduced to little more than animal survival, fighting on instinct. War is not civilized; never has been, never can be, because right there at the core of it is the darkest, blackest pit of barbarism and cruelty. It is about the ugliest, nastiest enterprise a human can engage in, which is why anyone who has ever fought one never wants to fight another one. That is the hard, cold reality of it, and so long as infantry combat consists of one soldier imposing his will on another, it won't change. One more thing; if you think it is easy, or even possible for men to just switch off that level of sheer primal rage and act completely rational, human and civilized again as soon as the last round is fired, you are deluding yourself. That is not how the human mind works under those conditions. You may sweat and shake, or puke; you may kick your enemy (dead or alive), you may put another bullet in him, you may bayonet him, mutilate him, or yes, piss on him; or do anything else but what you would normally do, but you won't be completely civilized, or rational, until that moment passes, and you will know you are not; and you will live with that little revelation about yourself, for the rest of your life.


----------



## IndependntLogic

Ancient lion said:


> The United States Marine Corps is launching an investigation into a video which appears to show Marines in full combat gear urinating on several dead bodies ... TMZ has learned.
> 
> In the extremely graphic video, which appeared on various websites this morning, at least 4 male Marines expose their genitals and urinate on the bodies.
> 
> The mystery person who posted the video included a caption that reads, "scout sniper team 4 with 3rd battalion 2nd marines out of camp lejeune peeing on dead talibans."
> 
> Now, Captain Kendra N. Hardesty -- a Media Officer for the USMC -- tells us, "While we have not yet verified the origin or authenticity of this video, the actions portrayed are not consistent with our core values and are not indicative of the character of the Marines in our Corps."
> 
> 
> 
> The video
> U.S. Marines to Launch Investigation into Soldiers Urinating on Dead Bodies | TMZ.com
Click to expand...


This is sad to me. Snipers and their spotters are kind of an elite group. So yes, they go there to kill the enemy. And they're really good at it. They see their friends killed or blown up and they get really pissed off. So they pissed on a corpse AND they were stupid enough to let someone get art. Their careers are tanked because although they're really good at what we want them to do, they have no political sense at all. 

And really, now that we've eliminated bin Laden and virtually every leader of Al Qaeda in the region, we should get the hell out of there anyway. It's not like there ever was or ever will be peace in the Middle East.


----------



## The Gadfly

I have just one more question. Does anyone else think it ironic, that some here and elsewhere want severe punishment, even jail time, for these Marines for poor judgment in pissing on a corpse, while the likes of Robert S. McNamara, Les Aspin, and Donald Rumsfeld retained positions of honor and trust, after exhibiting judgement so poor that it amounted to criminal negligence, and was directly responsible for the deaths of many military personnel? Somehow, I think that is just maybe a tiny bit worse than pissing on a dead Taliban, and the way I see it, I would think those entrusted with national command authority would be held to at least as high a standard as a lowly enlisted Marine, but I can't recall anyone suggesting that they should have been sentenced to a term in Leavenworth or Portsmouth. I guess it's who you are, not what you did, that really matters, huh? Speaking of pissing, I think I want a concrete bust of each of those three "illustrious gentlemen", so that I may place same on a back corner of my place, where my dog and I can relieve ourselves on each one of them at least once a day. It's a piss-poor substitute for the real thing, but it will make me feel better, until I have departed this life and can then personally hunt down their sorry souls in hell, and piss on them there!


----------



## old navy

The Gadfly said:


> I have just one more question. Does anyone else think it ironic, that some here and elsewhere want severe punishment, even jail time, for these Marines for poor judgment in pissing on a corpse, while the likes of Robert S. McNamara, Les Aspin, and Donald Rumsfeld retained positions of honor and trust, after exhibiting judgement so poor that it amounted to criminal negligence, and was directly responsible for the deaths of many military personnel? Somehow, I think that is just maybe a tiny bit worse than pissing on a dead Taliban, and the way I see it, I would think those entrusted with national command authority would be held to at least as high a standard as a lowly enlisted Marine, but I can't recall anyone suggesting that they should have been sentenced to a term in Leavenworth or Portsmouth. I guess it's who you are, not what you did, that really matters, huh? Speaking of pissing, I think I want a concrete bust of each of those three "illustrious gentlemen", so that I may place same on a back corner of my place, where my dog and I can relieve ourselves on each one of them at least once a day. It's a piss-poor substitute for the real thing, but it will make me feel better, until I have departed this life and can then personally hunt down their sorry souls in hell, and piss on them there!



This is another great post gadfly. 

I stopped posting on this thread because I did not want to appear to be a taliban sympathizer. Some of my comments were what I think will happen to these Marines, not what I want to happen to them. I agree that a terrible irony in our system of government is that those in leadership positions can get away with executing policy and actions based on poor judgement. Our military is in turn held to a higher standard with less tolerance for lapses in their judgement.

My main problems with this incident are: The foundation of the Marine Corps warrior ethos is built on discipline. That discipline took a few minutes off that day but these few minutes were seen around the world. Too much time, money, and tradition is invested in Marine snipers granting them the decision power as to who lives or dies, and they chose to tarnish that with a public display of disgusting behavior.

This violation of trust will affect others who enjoy a certain level of independence and they will now come under closer scrutiny and supervision. As an Independent Duty Corpsman, I served as a Detachment Commander and Platoon Commander in these environments and cringe when I think what would happen if any of my people would have done that. If troops want less micro-management and more responsibility, they have to earn it. My son is a Marine officer with a degree in Conflict Analysis and Resolution with a Middle East terrorism concentration. He hates the enemy more than most and has his personal opinions on pissing on the enemy that are not shared in mixed company. My advice to him on leading Marines is to still trust but verify. Let them do their jobs but keep a finger on the pulse of the unit. Be involved yet let the NCOs do their job.

I met Carlos Hathcock when we both lived in Virginia Beach. He had long since retired and had already fallen ill but his mind was still sharp and he loved his Corps. I wonder what the most famous of all Marine snipers would think about this.


----------



## Sunshine

9thIDdoc said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll put it simple for you civilians that think pissing on dead combatants is a good thing, as well as remind those who actually have served who also think pissing on the dead is a good thing..........
> 
> Whatever happened to following orders of those appointed over you?  What about following the Geneva Conventions like they're supposed to?  What about the Code of Conduct briefings that every military member receives annually?
> 
> We should just throw all those rules out and start acting like the Taliban?
> 
> Listen.  The Geneva Conventions were put in place BECAUSE of crap like this going on during wartime.  Any country that is a NATO country is expected to follow them.
> 
> To the best of my understanding, the Taliban and the Viet Cong never signed onto the conventions, which is why they ignore them.
> 
> The military I was part of from 1982 until 2002 (and yeah.......I saw conflict starting with Beruit in '83) followed the rules and provided humane treatment of prisoners, as well as didn't desecrate the dead.
> 
> Sad to see that so many people think the rules should be thrown out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well lets see here...according to the Geneva Convention I should have been running around Vietnam _without_ a weapon but _with_  big red and white targets painted on my chest, back, and head. If you know of anyone who did that and survived I would like to hear about them.
Click to expand...


You must be a Vietnam vet.  You know, on the home front during that war they showed American corpses with flies all over them on the 6:00 news.  I got to see that shit as a teenager.  Right now, I can tell you that IMO military matters are military matters.  I want to be able to sit on my deck here on the lake for the remaining few days of my life.  I want my children and my grandchild to be safe from foreign savages.  Therefore, I do not care how our military functions and if, in order to have those things, America has to be the biggest baddest ass on the block, the so be it.  My taxes go to pay the military to do a job for me the mechanics of which I don't really care to understand.  Whatever it takes.  

On the home front, I will declare my issues with the police, the schools, the feds, the state, any government organization that I think has erred accidentally or on purpose.  But the military is its own, animal.  They can do what they like, and when they come home, I will support helping them in whatever way it takes so they can again live in the world.


----------



## Warrior102

All I gotta say is *SEMPER FI*


----------



## sfcalifornia

The Gadfly said:


> sfcalifornia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I tell you what; you name me ONE enemy we have fought since WW II, that paid ANY attention whatever to the Geneva Conventions or any of the other niceties our troops are now FORCED to observe (primarily for the purpose of placating the uninformed opinions of  a permanent civilian public who have ZERO understanding of the emotions a soldier feels in combat), and we can talk about right and wrong. Alternatively, you can put your own combat experience out here, and we can talk about right and wrong. Until then, whether the new, politically correct military that came out of the decade after Vietnam learned the right lessons from that conflict and its aftermath is a matter of opinion, and my opinion is that I am getting a bit tired of troops being pilloried in the court of public opinion, here and abroad, so people like you can FEEL good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So people like me can FEEL good?  About what?
> 
> Don't be so quick to judge.  People like me can imagine soldiers, whether American or Taliban, so filled with hate for the enemy, that it would drive them to urinate on each other corpses.  There is a difference between American soldiers and Taliban soldiers though.  We're supposed to be the civilized ones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know, that last sentence is a really nice sentiment. There's only one little problem with it: *the violence, fear, sheer brutality and terror of infantry combat has a way of stripping the veneer of civilization, even the basic humanity,* right off a man-ANY man from ANY country. Try to imagine, when your entire world is reduced to a few feet of dirt, the men around you, and the enemy, and you are fighting for your life, just how civilized ANYONE is. Because that is the reality of it; in intense combat, you are NOT fighting for God, country, flag, the honor of the service, or your girl back home; you are fighting for your life and the lives of your buddies, because that is the only thing that has any meaning at all in those moments. Don't lecture me about being "civilized"-not after I've seen even the best of men reduced to little more than animal survival, fighting on instinct. War is not civilized; never has been, never can be, because right there at the core of it is the darkest, blackest pit of barbarism and cruelty. It is about the ugliest, nastiest enterprise a human can engage in, which is why anyone who has ever fought one never wants to fight another one. That is the hard, cold reality of it, and so long as infantry combat consists of one soldier imposing his will on another, it won't change. One more thing; if you think it is easy, or even possible for men to just switch off that level of sheer primal rage and act completely rational, human and civilized again as soon as the last round is fired, you are deluding yourself. That is not how the human mind works under those conditions. You may sweat and shake, or puke; you may kick your enemy (dead or alive), you may put another bullet in him, you may bayonet him, mutilate him, or yes, piss on him; or do anything else but what you would normally do, but you won't be completely civilized, or rational, until that moment passes, and you will know you are not; and you will live with that little revelation about yourself, for the rest of your life.
Click to expand...


Yes, I saw the violence, fear, sheer brutality and terror of infantry combat in the eyes of the soldiers as they laughed and joked while pissing away.

Give me a break.

I can understand fighting a battle and during the course of that battle, killing an enemy and being so ramped up at the time that it would compel you to put another bullet in him, bayonet him, mutilate him or even piss on him but that moment obviously passed with this group and this video was OBVIOUSLY STAGED.  It was made to be a big show.  It was a bunch of soldiers who did something dumb.  They should get a reprimand by the military.  Their faces and participation in the viral video will determine their futures in civilian life if they ever leave the military.


----------



## Cowman

Sunshine said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll put it simple for you civilians that think pissing on dead combatants is a good thing, as well as remind those who actually have served who also think pissing on the dead is a good thing..........
> 
> Whatever happened to following orders of those appointed over you?  What about following the Geneva Conventions like they're supposed to?  What about the Code of Conduct briefings that every military member receives annually?
> 
> We should just throw all those rules out and start acting like the Taliban?
> 
> Listen.  The Geneva Conventions were put in place BECAUSE of crap like this going on during wartime.  Any country that is a NATO country is expected to follow them.
> 
> To the best of my understanding, the Taliban and the Viet Cong never signed onto the conventions, which is why they ignore them.
> 
> The military I was part of from 1982 until 2002 (and yeah.......I saw conflict starting with Beruit in '83) followed the rules and provided humane treatment of prisoners, as well as didn't desecrate the dead.
> 
> Sad to see that so many people think the rules should be thrown out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well lets see here...according to the Geneva Convention I should have been running around Vietnam _without_ a weapon but _with_  big red and white targets painted on my chest, back, and head. If you know of anyone who did that and survived I would like to hear about them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You must be a Vietnam vet.  You know, on the home front during that war they showed American corpses with flies all over them on the 6:00 news.  I got to see that shit as a teenager.  Right now, I can tell you that IMO military matters are military matters.  I want to be able to sit on my deck here on the lake for the remaining few days of my life.  I want my children and my grandchild to be safe from foreign savages.  Therefore, I do not care how our military functions and if, in order to have those things, America has to be the biggest baddest ass on the block, the so be it.  My taxes go to pay the military to do a job for me the mechanics of which I don't really care to understand.  Whatever it takes.
> 
> On the home front, I will declare my issues with the police, the schools, the feds, the state, any government organization that I think has erred accidentally or on purpose.  But the military is its own, animal.  They can do what they like, and when they come home, I will support helping them in whatever way it takes so they can again live in the world.
Click to expand...


The military is NOT its own animal. How careless and lazy of a human being and American are you? Herp, I don't care what they do as long as they make me safe! Derp!

You're what's wrong with the state of affairs regarding our freedoms today. You're why we have the NDAA, because you want the artificial feeling of safety at any cost, no matter how much you or your fellow countrymen have to sacrifice to attain it.


Our military is supposed to be disciplined, and they should exercise that discipline when on the battlefield. When they debase themselves, they show their lack of discipline to world.


----------



## Douger

Lemme see here. Tape and photos. Dicks out. Liquid falling from end of dicks to diapers on heads.
Investigation over. Can I have my $ixty million now? 
The meatheads will make a career out of it.


----------



## Sunshine

Cowman said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well lets see here...according to the Geneva Convention I should have been running around Vietnam _without_ a weapon but _with_  big red and white targets painted on my chest, back, and head. If you know of anyone who did that and survived I would like to hear about them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You must be a Vietnam vet.  You know, on the home front during that war they showed American corpses with flies all over them on the 6:00 news.  I got to see that shit as a teenager.  Right now, I can tell you that IMO military matters are military matters.  I want to be able to sit on my deck here on the lake for the remaining few days of my life.  I want my children and my grandchild to be safe from foreign savages.  Therefore, I do not care how our military functions and if, in order to have those things, America has to be the biggest baddest ass on the block, the so be it.  My taxes go to pay the military to do a job for me the mechanics of which I don't really care to understand.  Whatever it takes.
> 
> On the home front, I will declare my issues with the police, the schools, the feds, the state, any government organization that I think has erred accidentally or on purpose.  But the military is its own, animal.  They can do what they like, and when they come home, I will support helping them in whatever way it takes so they can again live in the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The military is NOT its own animal. How careless and lazy of a human being and American are you? Herp, I don't care what they do as long as they make me safe! Derp!
> 
> You're what's wrong with the state of affairs regarding our freedoms today. You're why we have the NDAA, because you want the artificial feeling of safety at any cost, no matter how much you or your fellow countrymen have to sacrifice to attain it.
> 
> 
> Our military is supposed to be disciplined, and they should exercise that discipline when on the battlefield. When they debase themselves, they show their lack of discipline to world.
Click to expand...


And you are a fucking idiot.  But hey, we all gotta be something!


----------



## The Infidel

Sunshine said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> You must be a Vietnam vet.  You know, on the home front during that war they showed American corpses with flies all over them on the 6:00 news.  I got to see that shit as a teenager.  Right now, I can tell you that IMO military matters are military matters.  I want to be able to sit on my deck here on the lake for the remaining few days of my life.  I want my children and my grandchild to be safe from foreign savages.  Therefore, I do not care how our military functions and if, in order to have those things, America has to be the biggest baddest ass on the block, the so be it.  My taxes go to pay the military to do a job for me the mechanics of which I don't really care to understand.  Whatever it takes.
> 
> On the home front, I will declare my issues with the police, the schools, the feds, the state, any government organization that I think has erred accidentally or on purpose.  But the military is its own, animal.  They can do what they like, and when they come home, I will support helping them in whatever way it takes so they can again live in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The military is NOT its own animal. How careless and lazy of a human being and American are you? Herp, I don't care what they do as long as they make me safe! Derp!
> 
> You're what's wrong with the state of affairs regarding our freedoms today. You're why we have the NDAA, because you want the artificial feeling of safety at any cost, no matter how much you or your fellow countrymen have to sacrifice to attain it.
> 
> 
> Our military is supposed to be disciplined, and they should exercise that discipline when on the battlefield. When they debase themselves, they show their lack of discipline to world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And you are a fucking idiot.  But hey, we all gotta be something!
Click to expand...


----------



## Cowman

Sunshine said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> You must be a Vietnam vet.  You know, on the home front during that war they showed American corpses with flies all over them on the 6:00 news.  I got to see that shit as a teenager.  Right now, I can tell you that IMO military matters are military matters.  I want to be able to sit on my deck here on the lake for the remaining few days of my life.  I want my children and my grandchild to be safe from foreign savages.  Therefore, I do not care how our military functions and if, in order to have those things, America has to be the biggest baddest ass on the block, the so be it.  My taxes go to pay the military to do a job for me the mechanics of which I don't really care to understand.  Whatever it takes.
> 
> On the home front, I will declare my issues with the police, the schools, the feds, the state, any government organization that I think has erred accidentally or on purpose.  But the military is its own, animal.  They can do what they like, and when they come home, I will support helping them in whatever way it takes so they can again live in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The military is NOT its own animal. How careless and lazy of a human being and American are you? Herp, I don't care what they do as long as they make me safe! Derp!
> 
> You're what's wrong with the state of affairs regarding our freedoms today. You're why we have the NDAA, because you want the artificial feeling of safety at any cost, no matter how much you or your fellow countrymen have to sacrifice to attain it.
> 
> 
> Our military is supposed to be disciplined, and they should exercise that discipline when on the battlefield. When they debase themselves, they show their lack of discipline to world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And you are a fucking idiot.  But hey, we all gotta be something!
Click to expand...


Says the person who doesn't give a shit about what the military does to represent the United States, and only wishes to plug their ears and cover their eyes while living the rest of their days on the fucking deck.

A person who actually respects the military would demand that they act professional... and not like a ragtag group of militants or the enemy they are presently fighting. War doesn't have to debase disciplined soldiers. Those soldiers are simply undisciplined.

Admit it... If it was the other way around, and they were defecating on and urinating on our boys corpses, you would be calling them savages.

I remember that the reaction during the Battle of Mogadishu when our soldiers corpses were dragged through the streets and horribly maimed... we had many bad words to say about that. I guess it didn't matter though right? War is hell... gotta show intimidation by defiling the dead! If you were on the streets of Mogadishu, you'd probably rip apart our soldiers with your bare hands to show how big of a dick you have. Weak.


----------



## Sunshine

Cowman said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> The military is NOT its own animal. How careless and lazy of a human being and American are you? Herp, I don't care what they do as long as they make me safe! Derp!
> 
> You're what's wrong with the state of affairs regarding our freedoms today. You're why we have the NDAA, because you want the artificial feeling of safety at any cost, no matter how much you or your fellow countrymen have to sacrifice to attain it.
> 
> 
> Our military is supposed to be disciplined, and they should exercise that discipline when on the battlefield. When they debase themselves, they show their lack of discipline to world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you are a fucking idiot.  But hey, we all gotta be something!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says the person who doesn't give a shit about what the military does to represent the United States, and only wishes to plug their ears and cover their eyes while living the rest of their days on the fucking deck.
> 
> A person who actually respects the military would demand that they act professional... and not like a ragtag group of militants or the enemy they are presently fighting. War doesn't have to debase disciplined soldiers. Those soldiers are simply undisciplined.
> 
> Admit it... If it was the other way around, and they were defecating on and urinating on our boys corpses, you would be calling them savages.
> 
> I remember that the reaction during the Battle of Mogadishu when our soldiers corpses were dragged through the streets and horribly maimed... we had many bad words to say about that. I guess it didn't matter though right? War is hell... gotta show intimidation by defiling the dead! If you were on the streets of Mogadishu, you'd probably rip apart our soldiers with your bare hands to show how big of a dick you have. Weak.
Click to expand...


I see your info doesn't show where you are from.  You are parroting that silly shit from GWTW about how the South can't lose because we are oh so much more chivalrous than the north.  Well here's a clue.  We don't win wars by being chivalrous.  YOUR GOVERNMENT taught that to MY government in the 1800s.  We win our wars by subduing and destroying our enemies.  How people in this counry have tagged on to that shit is beyond me.  Now you can blow it out your ass.


----------



## The Infidel

Cowman said:


> Admit it... If it was the other way around, and they were defecating on and urinating on our boys corpses, you would be calling them savages.



Yep.... they NEVER do that do they?

You asshole... tell that to this guy!









*FUCK YOU Cowpunk*


----------



## Cowman

Sunshine said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you are a fucking idiot.  But hey, we all gotta be something!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Says the person who doesn't give a shit about what the military does to represent the United States, and only wishes to plug their ears and cover their eyes while living the rest of their days on the fucking deck.
> 
> A person who actually respects the military would demand that they act professional... and not like a ragtag group of militants or the enemy they are presently fighting. War doesn't have to debase disciplined soldiers. Those soldiers are simply undisciplined.
> 
> Admit it... If it was the other way around, and they were defecating on and urinating on our boys corpses, you would be calling them savages.
> 
> I remember that the reaction during the Battle of Mogadishu when our soldiers corpses were dragged through the streets and horribly maimed... we had many bad words to say about that. I guess it didn't matter though right? War is hell... gotta show intimidation by defiling the dead! If you were on the streets of Mogadishu, you'd probably rip apart our soldiers with your bare hands to show how big of a dick you have. Weak.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see your info doesn't show where you are from.  You are parroting that silly shit from GWTW about how the South can't lose because we are oh so much more chivalrous than the north.  Well here's a clue.  We don't win wars by being chivalrous.  YOUR GOVERNMENT taught that to MY government in the 1800s.  We win our wars by subduing and destroying our enemies.  How people in this counry have tagged on to that shit is beyond me.  Now you can blow it out your ass.
Click to expand...


I currently reside in Texas, and have for the past ten years.

My government taught that to your government in the 1800's? What is your government, the Confederacy? Slavery was awesome? What are you trying to get at?

Just go sit on your deck and don't worry your pretty little head about the awful things in the world like you prefer.


----------



## Cowman

The Infidel said:


> Yep.... they NEVER do that do they?
> 
> You asshole... tell that to this guy!
> 
> 
> *FUCK YOU Cowpunk*




Comic Sans? What a joke.

And do you not think I know that they do those things? Why else would you think I'm saying that you're just like them? You don't mind if our soldiers did those things, so why would you mind them doing it too?

Not much of a difference between your mentality and theirs, except you're on the winning side. So at least have peace with that, my friend.


----------



## The Infidel

Cowman said:


> I currently reside in Texas, and have for the past ten years.



You obviously were not born here.

I revoke your Texas citizenship


----------



## Cowman

The Infidel said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I currently reside in Texas, and have for the past ten years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You obviously were not born here.
> 
> I revoke your Texas citizenship
Click to expand...


What a retard. There are lots of liberals living in Texas. And no, I wasn't born in Texas. I don't even consider myself a Texan. But I am a citizen of Texas.

Your constant use of Comic Sans shows you what a joke you are.


----------



## The Infidel

Cowman said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I currently reside in Texas, and have for the past ten years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You obviously were not born here.
> 
> I revoke your Texas citizenship
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a retard. There are lots of liberals living in Texas. *And no, I wasn't born in Texas.* I don't even consider myself a Texan. But I am a citizen of Texas.
> 
> Your constant use of Comic Sans shows you what a joke you are.
Click to expand...



Thank GAWD... your an insult to Texans everywhere


Oh yeah.... comic sans this


----------



## Synthaholic

The Infidel said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Admit it... If it was the other way around, and they were defecating on and urinating on our boys corpses, you would be calling them savages.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep.... they NEVER do that do they?
> 
> You asshole... tell that to this guy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *FUCK YOU Cowpunk*
Click to expand...

Was that Taliban or al Qaeda?


----------



## The Gadfly

old navy said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have just one more question. Does anyone else think it ironic, that some here and elsewhere want severe punishment, even jail time, for these Marines for poor judgment in pissing on a corpse, while the likes of Robert S. McNamara, Les Aspin, and Donald Rumsfeld retained positions of honor and trust, after exhibiting judgement so poor that it amounted to criminal negligence, and was directly responsible for the deaths of many military personnel? Somehow, I think that is just maybe a tiny bit worse than pissing on a dead Taliban, and the way I see it, I would think those entrusted with national command authority would be held to at least as high a standard as a lowly enlisted Marine, but I can't recall anyone suggesting that they should have been sentenced to a term in Leavenworth or Portsmouth. I guess it's who you are, not what you did, that really matters, huh? Speaking of pissing, I think I want a concrete bust of each of those three "illustrious gentlemen", so that I may place same on a back corner of my place, where my dog and I can relieve ourselves on each one of them at least once a day. It's a piss-poor substitute for the real thing, but it will make me feel better, until I have departed this life and can then personally hunt down their sorry souls in hell, and piss on them there!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is another great post gadfly.
> 
> I stopped posting on this thread because I did not want to appear to be a taliban sympathizer. Some of my comments were what I think will happen to these Marines, not what I want to happen to them. I agree that a terrible irony in our system of government is that those in leadership positions can get away with executing policy and actions based on poor judgement. Our military is in turn held to a higher standard with less tolerance for lapses in their judgement.
> 
> My main problems with this incident are: The foundation of the Marine Corps warrior ethos is built on discipline. That discipline took a few minutes off that day but these few minutes were seen around the world. Too much time, money, and tradition is invested in Marine snipers granting them the decision power as to who lives or dies, and they chose to tarnish that with a public display of disgusting behavior.
> 
> This violation of trust will affect others who enjoy a certain level of independence and they will now come under closer scrutiny and supervision. As an Independent Duty Corpsman, I served as a Detachment Commander and Platoon Commander in these environments and cringe when I think what would happen if any of my people would have done that. If troops want less micro-management and more responsibility, they have to earn it. My son is a Marine officer with a degree in Conflict Analysis and Resolution with a Middle East terrorism concentration. He hates the enemy more than most and has his personal opinions on pissing on the enemy that are not shared in mixed company. My advice to him on leading Marines is to still trust but verify. Let them do their jobs but keep a finger on the pulse of the unit. Be involved yet let the NCOs do their job.
> 
> I met Carlos Hathcock when we both lived in Virginia Beach. He had long since retired and had already fallen ill but his mind was still sharp and he loved his Corps. I wonder what the most famous of all Marine snipers would think about this.
Click to expand...


Thanks, Navy. I don't believe anyone who actually read your posts here would consider you a "Taliban sympathizer"-I don't, anyway. Now, as to these particular Marines, it's pretty obvious that both common sense and discipline took a hike  on this occasion, for whatever reason. I admit to being surprised that Marine snipers, who normally strike me as a highly-skilled, disciplined, and intelligent group, would do this. Staging and recording something like this is utterly stupid, it's distasteful, and yes, it's an embarrassment. On the other hand, it is also orders of magnitude below a certain Stryker Brigade "kill squad" and their acts of wanton murder just a little while back, or what happened at Abu Ghraib, for that matter. These men need to face disciplinary proceedings, but those need to be commensurate with the offense, not elevated to the same level as for those despicable atrocities. This is NOT murder or torture. In my judgment, to cast this lesser incident in a similar light, is a disservice to the Marine Corps, to the armed forces in general, to the nation, and to the personnel involved.

The unfortunate thing, sadly most likely inevitable in this age of instant communication, is that once something like this gets into the spotlight, the sense of proportion gets lost in the unpleasant glare. I've seen a "throw the book at them" mentality here (before all the circumstances and facts are even known), on the part of some contributors. It is possible, even likely, that this same attitude will affect command decisions as to what measure of discipline is appropriate. I hope it does not, but if there is a knee-jerk reaction to this, I think we both agree as to the likely outcome. What would better serve everyone in this instance, I think, is a careful consideration of how and why this breach of discipline occurred, and appropriate remedial action and disciplinary measures for the offenders.

I have gotten the impression, from several highly publicized cases in the last few years, that in the process of changing the culture from that of the Vietnam era, the military of late seem to have adopted a rather cavalier attitude with regard to throwing individuals before an Article 32 hearing and a GCM in an attempt to "make an example of them", any time there is an alleged incident that reflects negatively on the service. In several instances, it has subsequently been found that the accused were actually innocent of ANY wrongdoing whatsoever. I get the distinct and uncomfortable feeling, that there is just a little too much enthusiasm for this draconian approach; there are, after all, other options available under the UCMJ.


----------



## Salt Jones

I think some kids who were molested by Catholic priests should have pissed on the corpse of Pope John Paul II.


----------



## paulitician

Me Chinese me play joke me put pee pee...


----------



## Cowman

The Infidel said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> You obviously were not born here.
> 
> I revoke your Texas citizenship
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a retard. There are lots of liberals living in Texas. *And no, I wasn't born in Texas.* I don't even consider myself a Texan. But I am a citizen of Texas.
> 
> Your constant use of Comic Sans shows you what a joke you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Thank GAWD... your an insult to Texans everywhere
> 
> 
> Oh yeah.... comic sans this
Click to expand...


Comic sans what? Your childish antics are represented beautifully by Comic Sans.

And I'm an insult to Texans everywhere because I wasn't born here? What kind of logic is that? Do you have any idea how many people have moved to Texas who weren't born here? A huge ass number. You insult the Texans who have moved here to find better opportunities, like some kind of xenophobic pussy.


----------



## The Infidel

Cowman said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a retard. There are lots of liberals living in Texas. *And no, I wasn't born in Texas.* I don't even consider myself a Texan. But I am a citizen of Texas.
> 
> Your constant use of Comic Sans shows you what a joke you are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank GAWD... your an insult to Texans everywhere
> 
> 
> Oh yeah.... comic sans this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Comic sans what? Your childish antics are represented beautifully by Comic Sans.
> 
> And I'm an insult to Texans everywhere because I wasn't born here? What kind of logic is that? Do you have any idea how many people have moved to Texas who weren't born here? A huge ass number. You insult the Texans who have moved here to find better opportunities, like some kind of xenophobic pussy.
Click to expand...





Aww... did your feewing get hurt?


----------



## The Infidel

Synthaholic said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Admit it... If it was the other way around, and they were defecating on and urinating on our boys corpses, you would be calling them savages.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep.... they NEVER do that do they?
> 
> You asshole... tell that to this guy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *FUCK YOU Cowpunk*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was that Taliban or al Qaeda?
Click to expand...



They are all terrorists, so I could give a fuck.


----------



## Cowman

The Infidel said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank GAWD... your an insult to Texans everywhere
> 
> 
> Oh yeah.... comic sans this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comic sans what? Your childish antics are represented beautifully by Comic Sans.
> 
> And I'm an insult to Texans everywhere because I wasn't born here? What kind of logic is that? Do you have any idea how many people have moved to Texas who weren't born here? A huge ass number. You insult the Texans who have moved here to find better opportunities, like some kind of xenophobic pussy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aww... did your feewing get hurt?
Click to expand...


No. Did you even read what I said? I wasn't born in Texas and I don't consider myself a Texan. So why would my feelings be hurt? I was pointing out your illogical arguments.




The Infidel said:


> They are all terrorists, so I could give a fuck.



You could give a fuck? So why don't you? You mean to say you couldn't give a fuck.


----------



## IndependntLogic

Cowman said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well lets see here...according to the Geneva Convention I should have been running around Vietnam _without_ a weapon but _with_  big red and white targets painted on my chest, back, and head. If you know of anyone who did that and survived I would like to hear about them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You must be a Vietnam vet.  You know, on the home front during that war they showed American corpses with flies all over them on the 6:00 news.  I got to see that shit as a teenager.  Right now, I can tell you that IMO military matters are military matters.  I want to be able to sit on my deck here on the lake for the remaining few days of my life.  I want my children and my grandchild to be safe from foreign savages.  Therefore, I do not care how our military functions and if, in order to have those things, America has to be the biggest baddest ass on the block, the so be it.  My taxes go to pay the military to do a job for me the mechanics of which I don't really care to understand.  Whatever it takes.
> 
> On the home front, I will declare my issues with the police, the schools, the feds, the state, any government organization that I think has erred accidentally or on purpose.  But the military is its own, animal.  They can do what they like, and when they come home, I will support helping them in whatever way it takes so they can again live in the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The military is NOT its own animal. How careless and lazy of a human being and American are you? Herp, I don't care what they do as long as they make me safe! Derp!
> 
> You're what's wrong with the state of affairs regarding our freedoms today. You're why we have the NDAA, because you want the artificial feeling of safety at any cost, no matter how much you or your fellow countrymen have to sacrifice to attain it.
> 
> 
> Our military is supposed to be disciplined, and they should exercise that discipline when on the battlefield. When they debase themselves, they show their lack of discipline to world.
Click to expand...


I'm curious there Cowman. How many times have you been in battle? How about in a life threatening situation on behalf of your country? How many months have you lived in enemy territory?
The answer's obvious to anyone reading your posts. 
You know what Afghans do to our troops? The women have a kind of ceremony. You're bound. Then they carefully cut open your stomach and pull out your intenstines and lay them on your chest. You can live for hours in excrutiating pain that way. 
Yes what they did was politically incorrect. But forward snipers have it tougher than most troops. Guess who find the bodies that are left behind with their guts left out? ForeCons and 317's. Guess who sees their friends getting arms and legs getting blown off every day? 
The real crime here? Being stupid enough to let it get on film. They're not politicians but now their careers are tanked for political reasons. 
That's a shame.
You want to show us all how one should behave after months or more of battle stress? Fine. Pack your weapon and drop us a postcard from Afghanistan.


----------



## The Infidel

Cowman said:


> No. Did you even read what I said? I wasn't born in Texas and I don't consider myself a Texan. So why would my feelings be hurt? I was pointing out your illogical arguments.



Not trying to be logical, just toying with the mouse


----------



## SFC Ollie

When I think of the abuse of American corpses and abuse of American POW's and the various beheadings of Americans..........

I say give these guys some extra duty, a promotion, and a medal.............


----------



## The Infidel

SFC Ollie said:


> When I think of the abuse of American corpses and abuse of American POW's and the various beheadings of Americans..........
> 
> I say give these guys some extra duty, a promotion, and a medal.............


----------



## Sunshine

Cowman said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Says the person who doesn't give a shit about what the military does to represent the United States, and only wishes to plug their ears and cover their eyes while living the rest of their days on the fucking deck.
> 
> A person who actually respects the military would demand that they act professional... and not like a ragtag group of militants or the enemy they are presently fighting. War doesn't have to debase disciplined soldiers. Those soldiers are simply undisciplined.
> 
> Admit it... If it was the other way around, and they were defecating on and urinating on our boys corpses, you would be calling them savages.
> 
> I remember that the reaction during the Battle of Mogadishu when our soldiers corpses were dragged through the streets and horribly maimed... we had many bad words to say about that. I guess it didn't matter though right? War is hell... gotta show intimidation by defiling the dead! If you were on the streets of Mogadishu, you'd probably rip apart our soldiers with your bare hands to show how big of a dick you have. Weak.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see your info doesn't show where you are from.  You are parroting that silly shit from GWTW about how the South can't lose because we are oh so much more chivalrous than the north.  Well here's a clue.  We don't win wars by being chivalrous.  YOUR GOVERNMENT taught that to MY government in the 1800s.  We win our wars by subduing and destroying our enemies.  How people in this counry have tagged on to that shit is beyond me.  Now you can blow it out your ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I currently reside in Texas, and have for the past ten years.
> 
> My government taught that to your government in the 1800's? What is your government, the Confederacy? Slavery was awesome? What are you trying to get at?
> 
> *Just go sit on your deck and don't worry your pretty little head about the awful things in the world like you prefer.*
Click to expand...


That's exactly what I plan to do.  And I can.  No thanks to dumbasses like you.


----------



## Cowman

Sunshine said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see your info doesn't show where you are from.  You are parroting that silly shit from GWTW about how the South can't lose because we are oh so much more chivalrous than the north.  Well here's a clue.  We don't win wars by being chivalrous.  YOUR GOVERNMENT taught that to MY government in the 1800s.  We win our wars by subduing and destroying our enemies.  How people in this counry have tagged on to that shit is beyond me.  Now you can blow it out your ass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I currently reside in Texas, and have for the past ten years.
> 
> My government taught that to your government in the 1800's? What is your government, the Confederacy? Slavery was awesome? What are you trying to get at?
> 
> *Just go sit on your deck and don't worry your pretty little head about the awful things in the world like you prefer.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's exactly what I plan to do.  And I can.  No thanks to dumbasses like you.
Click to expand...


Why? Because I actually respect the military? You see, the commanding officers of these soldiers think it's a bad thing they did.

No thanks to those men either, huh?


----------



## The Infidel

Cowman said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I currently reside in Texas, and have for the past ten years.
> 
> My government taught that to your government in the 1800's? What is your government, the Confederacy? Slavery was awesome? What are you trying to get at?
> 
> *Just go sit on your deck and don't worry your pretty little head about the awful things in the world like you prefer.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's exactly what I plan to do.  And I can.  No thanks to dumbasses like you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why? Because I actually respect the military? You see, *the commanding officers of these soldiers think it's a bad thing they did.*
> 
> No thanks to those men either, huh?
Click to expand...


Because its the PC thing to do....DUUHHH!!


----------



## Cowman

The Infidel said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's exactly what I plan to do.  And I can.  No thanks to dumbasses like you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why? Because I actually respect the military? You see, *the commanding officers of these soldiers think it's a bad thing they did.*
> 
> No thanks to those men either, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because its the PC thing to do....DUUHHH!!
Click to expand...


Right. Because that's all our military commanders think. PC. They don't think about what could further negatively impact the campaign.

Yeah... you guys don't respect or understand the military at all.


----------



## IndependntLogic

Cowman said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why? Because I actually respect the military? You see, *the commanding officers of these soldiers think it's a bad thing they did.*
> 
> No thanks to those men either, huh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because its the PC thing to do....DUUHHH!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right. Because that's all our military commanders think. PC. They don't think about what could further negatively impact the campaign.
> 
> Yeah... you guys don't respect or understand the military at all.
Click to expand...


You wanna say that about me, Cowman?
I'm curious there Cowman. How many times have you been in battle? How about in a life threatening situation on behalf of your country? How many months have you lived in enemy territory?
The answer's obvious to anyone reading your posts. 
You know what Afghans do to our troops? The women have a kind of ceremony. You're bound. Then they carefully cut open your stomach and pull out your intenstines and lay them on your chest. You can live for hours in excrutiating pain that way. 
Yes what they did was politically incorrect. But forward snipers have it tougher than most troops. Guess who find the bodies that are left behind with their guts left out? ForeCons and 317's. Guess who sees their friends getting arms and legs getting blown off every day? 
The real crime here? Being stupid enough to let it get on film. They're not politicians but now their careers are tanked for political reasons. 
That's a shame.
You want to show us all how one should behave after months or more of battle stress? Fine. Pack your weapon and drop us a postcard from Afghanistan.


----------



## Cowman

IndependntLogic said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because its the PC thing to do....DUUHHH!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right. Because that's all our military commanders think. PC. They don't think about what could further negatively impact the campaign.
> 
> Yeah... you guys don't respect or understand the military at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You wanna say that about me, Cowman?
> I'm curious there Cowman. How many times have you been in battle? How about in a life threatening situation on behalf of your country? How many months have you lived in enemy territory?
> The answer's obvious to anyone reading your posts.
> You know what Afghans do to our troops? The women have a kind of ceremony. You're bound. Then they carefully cut open your stomach and pull out your intenstines and lay them on your chest. You can live for hours in excrutiating pain that way.
> Yes what they did was politically incorrect. But forward snipers have it tougher than most troops. Guess who find the bodies that are left behind with their guts left out? ForeCons and 317's. Guess who sees their friends getting arms and legs getting blown off every day?
> The real crime here? Being stupid enough to let it get on film. They're not politicians but now their careers are tanked for political reasons.
> That's a shame.
> You want to show us all how one should behave after months or more of battle stress? Fine. Pack your weapon and drop us a postcard from Afghanistan.
Click to expand...


Sure, I'd say it about you. Every soldier knows they have to respect the chain of command. There's a reason why there are ranks and higher authority in the military.

Also, yes I see you know how to copy and paste.

Military Law and the commanding officers tell you how to conduct yourself in battle.


----------



## IndependntLogic

Cowman said:


> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right. Because that's all our military commanders think. PC. They don't think about what could further negatively impact the campaign.
> 
> Yeah... you guys don't respect or understand the military at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You wanna say that about me, Cowman?
> I'm curious there Cowman. How many times have you been in battle? How about in a life threatening situation on behalf of your country? How many months have you lived in enemy territory?
> The answer's obvious to anyone reading your posts.
> You know what Afghans do to our troops? The women have a kind of ceremony. You're bound. Then they carefully cut open your stomach and pull out your intenstines and lay them on your chest. You can live for hours in excrutiating pain that way.
> Yes what they did was politically incorrect. But forward snipers have it tougher than most troops. Guess who find the bodies that are left behind with their guts left out? ForeCons and 317's. Guess who sees their friends getting arms and legs getting blown off every day?
> The real crime here? Being stupid enough to let it get on film. They're not politicians but now their careers are tanked for political reasons.
> That's a shame.
> You want to show us all how one should behave after months or more of battle stress? Fine. Pack your weapon and drop us a postcard from Afghanistan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure, I'd say it about you. Every soldier knows they have to respect the chain of command. There's a reason why there are ranks and higher authority in the military.
> 
> Also, yes I see you know how to copy and paste.
> 
> Military Law and the commanding officers tell you how to conduct yourself in battle.
Click to expand...


So in other words you never spent a day in uniform or a day in battle. No surprise.

Respect the chain of command? Do you know how many pink-faced Boot Louie nonhackers have Samuari'd their own to be John Wayne? No you don't. You don't even know wtf I'm talking about so go google it. Then you'll understand why smart ones listen to their non-coms. 

Yes I copied and pasted it again - since you dodged it the first time. 

So basically, you can judge from the safety of your home and having never experienced what those men have been through. Your understanding of the military comes from Tom Clancy books and Tom Cruise movies. Got it. 

Yeah. We all take you ever so seriously.


----------



## The Gadfly

IndependntLogic said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> You must be a Vietnam vet.  You know, on the home front during that war they showed American corpses with flies all over them on the 6:00 news.  I got to see that shit as a teenager.  Right now, I can tell you that IMO military matters are military matters.  I want to be able to sit on my deck here on the lake for the remaining few days of my life.  I want my children and my grandchild to be safe from foreign savages.  Therefore, I do not care how our military functions and if, in order to have those things, America has to be the biggest baddest ass on the block, the so be it.  My taxes go to pay the military to do a job for me the mechanics of which I don't really care to understand.  Whatever it takes.
> 
> On the home front, I will declare my issues with the police, the schools, the feds, the state, any government organization that I think has erred accidentally or on purpose.  But the military is its own, animal.  They can do what they like, and when they come home, I will support helping them in whatever way it takes so they can again live in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The military is NOT its own animal. How careless and lazy of a human being and American are you? Herp, I don't care what they do as long as they make me safe! Derp!
> 
> You're what's wrong with the state of affairs regarding our freedoms today. You're why we have the NDAA, because you want the artificial feeling of safety at any cost, no matter how much you or your fellow countrymen have to sacrifice to attain it.
> 
> 
> Our military is supposed to be disciplined, and they should exercise that discipline when on the battlefield. When they debase themselves, they show their lack of discipline to world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm curious there Cowman. How many times have you been in battle? How about in a life threatening situation on behalf of your country? How many months have you lived in enemy territory?
> The answer's obvious to anyone reading your posts.
> You know what Afghans do to our troops? The women have a kind of ceremony. You're bound. Then they carefully cut open your stomach and pull out your intenstines and lay them on your chest. You can live for hours in excrutiating pain that way.
> Yes what they did was politically incorrect. But forward snipers have it tougher than most troops. Guess who find the bodies that are left behind with their guts left out? ForeCons and 317's. Guess who sees their friends getting arms and legs getting blown off every day?
> The real crime here? Being stupid enough to let it get on film. They're not politicians but now their careers are tanked for political reasons.
> That's a shame.
> You want to show us all how one should behave after months or more of battle stress? Fine. Pack your weapon and drop us a postcard from Afghanistan.
Click to expand...


Let me tell you what we have here with Cow(ard)man. I know his species well. Armchair commando, rank  Second-guesser First Class, and while he's never faced a bullet, or seen the enemy, he'll be happy to tell anyone who has exactly how to fight a war, because he's an expert on all things military, at least in his own exaggerated opinion of his own worth and intellect; truly a legend in his own mind. Back during Vietnam, his type would spit in your face; today, he "supports the troops" (well, so long as you don't spit on a Taliban corpse, anyway). He's never worn the uniform, not even for one day, but he knows all about Duty, Honor, Country and valor, and he'll be happy to let you die for him, as long as you do it when, where, and how he wants; hell, he'll even shed a few crocodile tears for you, so long as he thinks the image of your dead carcass is worth a vote for his side in the next election. Yessir, he is a true blue nephew nephew of Uncle Sam, a REAL AMERICAN who knows his rights, and after all, since there's no draft (it's not his fault, really), he'll let us killers be the suckers who defend those rights, so long as we remember our disgraceful place when we come home. He wouldn't be much use in a fight, why, he'd wet himself and soil his drawers, but he's good at telling you and me how we should feel, think and act under fire. 

So let's see what we've got; never served, check; pretty much useless, check; intellectual, check; head up ass, check; has all the right answers to all the wrong questions, check; always eager to tell someone where to go, what to do, and how to do it, check. Looks like a perfect candidate for SecDef, if you ask me.


----------



## Cowman

IndependntLogic said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> You wanna say that about me, Cowman?
> I'm curious there Cowman. How many times have you been in battle? How about in a life threatening situation on behalf of your country? How many months have you lived in enemy territory?
> The answer's obvious to anyone reading your posts.
> You know what Afghans do to our troops? The women have a kind of ceremony. You're bound. Then they carefully cut open your stomach and pull out your intenstines and lay them on your chest. You can live for hours in excrutiating pain that way.
> Yes what they did was politically incorrect. But forward snipers have it tougher than most troops. Guess who find the bodies that are left behind with their guts left out? ForeCons and 317's. Guess who sees their friends getting arms and legs getting blown off every day?
> The real crime here? Being stupid enough to let it get on film. They're not politicians but now their careers are tanked for political reasons.
> That's a shame.
> You want to show us all how one should behave after months or more of battle stress? Fine. Pack your weapon and drop us a postcard from Afghanistan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, I'd say it about you. Every soldier knows they have to respect the chain of command. There's a reason why there are ranks and higher authority in the military.
> 
> Also, yes I see you know how to copy and paste.
> 
> Military Law and the commanding officers tell you how to conduct yourself in battle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So in other words you never spent a day in uniform or a day in battle. No surprise.
> 
> Respect the chain of command? Do you know how many pink-faced Boot Louie nonhackers have Samuari'd their own to be John Wayne? No you don't. You don't even know wtf I'm talking about so go google it. Then you'll understand why smart ones listen to their non-coms.
> 
> Yes I copied and pasted it again - since you dodged it the first time.
> 
> So basically, you can judge from the safety of your home and having never experienced what those men have been through. Your understanding of the military comes from Tom Clancy books and Tom Cruise movies. Got it.
> 
> Yeah. We all take you ever so seriously.
Click to expand...


Did I ever claim to have served? Most Americans have not served, and there's nothing wrong with that. The thing is, I respect our soldiers, and I also demand that they act professionally and becoming of the uniform they wear. They serve their country and they fight for their citizens. It is my right as an American citizen to speak out. I respect our troops, that's why I fight every day to have them come back home unlike you who would like them to stay in those countries indefinitely getting shot at and killed so you feel safe for another day.

I want them home.


----------



## IndependntLogic

Cowman said:


> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, I'd say it about you. Every soldier knows they have to respect the chain of command. There's a reason why there are ranks and higher authority in the military.
> 
> Also, yes I see you know how to copy and paste.
> 
> Military Law and the commanding officers tell you how to conduct yourself in battle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So in other words you never spent a day in uniform or a day in battle. No surprise.
> 
> Respect the chain of command? Do you know how many pink-faced Boot Louie nonhackers have Samuari'd their own to be John Wayne? No you don't. You don't even know wtf I'm talking about so go google it. Then you'll understand why smart ones listen to their non-coms.
> 
> Yes I copied and pasted it again - since you dodged it the first time.
> 
> So basically, you can judge from the safety of your home and having never experienced what those men have been through. Your understanding of the military comes from Tom Clancy books and Tom Cruise movies. Got it.
> 
> Yeah. We all take you ever so seriously.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did I ever claim to have served? Most Americans have not served, and there's nothing wrong with that. The thing is, I respect our soldiers, and I also demand that they act professionally and becoming of the uniform they wear. They serve their country and they fight for their citizens. It is my right as an American citizen to speak out. I respect our troops, that's why I fight every day to have them come back home *unlike you who would like them to stay in those countries indefinitely getting shot at and killed *so you feel safe for another day.
> 
> I want them home.
Click to expand...


Your stupid is leaking out again. I'm all over this board saying I want them home and have been for a long time.


----------



## Cowman

IndependntLogic said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> So in other words you never spent a day in uniform or a day in battle. No surprise.
> 
> Respect the chain of command? Do you know how many pink-faced Boot Louie nonhackers have Samuari'd their own to be John Wayne? No you don't. You don't even know wtf I'm talking about so go google it. Then you'll understand why smart ones listen to their non-coms.
> 
> Yes I copied and pasted it again - since you dodged it the first time.
> 
> So basically, you can judge from the safety of your home and having never experienced what those men have been through. Your understanding of the military comes from Tom Clancy books and Tom Cruise movies. Got it.
> 
> Yeah. We all take you ever so seriously.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did I ever claim to have served? Most Americans have not served, and there's nothing wrong with that. The thing is, I respect our soldiers, and I also demand that they act professionally and becoming of the uniform they wear. They serve their country and they fight for their citizens. It is my right as an American citizen to speak out. I respect our troops, that's why I fight every day to have them come back home *unlike you who would like them to stay in those countries indefinitely getting shot at and killed *so you feel safe for another day.
> 
> I want them home.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your stupid is leaking out again. I'm all over this board saying I want them home and have been for a long time.
Click to expand...


Ohhh... color me genuinely surprised! You come off as the type that you associate with who calls people like me who want our soldiers home and away from harms way unpatriotic and un-American... because we DARE wish to not have our soldiers fighting terrorists and insurgents in foreign lands.


----------



## The Infidel

cowman said:


> independntlogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> did i ever claim to have served? Most americans have not served, and there's nothing wrong with that. The thing is, i respect our soldiers, and i also demand that they act professionally and becoming of the uniform they wear. They serve their country and they fight for their citizens. It is my right as an american citizen to speak out. I respect our troops, that's why i fight every day to have them come back home *unlike you who would like them to stay in those countries indefinitely getting shot at and killed *so you feel safe for another day.
> 
> I want them home.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> your stupid is leaking out again. I'm all over this board saying i want them home and have been for a long time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ohhh... Color me genuinely surprised! You come off as the type that you associate with who calls people like me who want our soldiers home and away from harms way unpatriotic and un-american... Because we dare wish to not have our soldiers fighting terrorists and insurgents in foreign lands.
Click to expand...


*
your a pussy with your head in the sand!*


----------



## Cowman

The Infidel said:


> cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> independntlogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> your stupid is leaking out again. I'm all over this board saying i want them home and have been for a long time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ohhh... Color me genuinely surprised! You come off as the type that you associate with who calls people like me who want our soldiers home and away from harms way unpatriotic and un-american... Because we dare wish to not have our soldiers fighting terrorists and insurgents in foreign lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *
> your a pussy with your head in the sand!*
Click to expand...


You're. You're a pussy with your head in the sand!

That's the proper way to say it.


----------



## Sunshine

IndependntLogic said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> You wanna say that about me, Cowman?
> I'm curious there Cowman. How many times have you been in battle? How about in a life threatening situation on behalf of your country? How many months have you lived in enemy territory?
> The answer's obvious to anyone reading your posts.
> You know what Afghans do to our troops? The women have a kind of ceremony. You're bound. Then they carefully cut open your stomach and pull out your intenstines and lay them on your chest. You can live for hours in excrutiating pain that way.
> Yes what they did was politically incorrect. But forward snipers have it tougher than most troops. Guess who find the bodies that are left behind with their guts left out? ForeCons and 317's. Guess who sees their friends getting arms and legs getting blown off every day?
> The real crime here? Being stupid enough to let it get on film. They're not politicians but now their careers are tanked for political reasons.
> That's a shame.
> You want to show us all how one should behave after months or more of battle stress? Fine. Pack your weapon and drop us a postcard from Afghanistan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, I'd say it about you. Every soldier knows they have to respect the chain of command. There's a reason why there are ranks and higher authority in the military.
> 
> Also, yes I see you know how to copy and paste.
> 
> Military Law and the commanding officers tell you how to conduct yourself in battle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So in other words you never spent a day in uniform or a day in battle. No surprise.
> 
> Respect the chain of command? Do you know how many pink-faced Boot Louie nonhackers have Samuari'd their own to be John Wayne? No you don't. You don't even know wtf I'm talking about so go google it. Then you'll understand why smart ones listen to their non-coms.
> 
> Yes I copied and pasted it again - since you dodged it the first time.
> 
> So basically, you can judge from the safety of your home and having never experienced what those men have been through. Your understanding of the military comes from Tom Clancy books and Tom Cruise movies. Got it.
> 
> Yeah. We all take you ever so seriously.
Click to expand...


So in essence he wants to sit on HIS deck too.  Only difference he is a hypocrite of the highest water.  AND he wants to play the old Southern chivalry card on top of it all.  Now how funny is THAT!


----------



## The Infidel

Cowman said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> ohhh... Color me genuinely surprised! You come off as the type that you associate with who calls people like me who want our soldiers home and away from harms way unpatriotic and un-american... Because we dare wish to not have our soldiers fighting terrorists and insurgents in foreign lands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> your a pussy with your head in the sand!*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're. You're a pussy with your head in the sand!
> 
> That's the proper way to say it.
Click to expand...







You lefties are such grammar nazi's!!!!


----------



## Sunshine

The Infidel said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> your a pussy with your head in the sand!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're. You're a pussy with your head in the sand!
> 
> That's the proper way to say it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You lefties are such grammar nazi's!!!!
Click to expand...


That's just distraction from the fact that the argument has been lost.


----------



## ABikerSailor

The Infidel said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I think of the abuse of American corpses and abuse of American POW's and the various beheadings of Americans..........
> 
> I say give these guys some extra duty, a promotion, and a medal.............
Click to expand...


Interesting...........SFC Ollie has been on this board talking about homosexuality and that it shouldn't be allowed in the military (see some of the older DADT threads on here), and has stated that I must have been a bad First Class because I would not turn in people who were gay that I knew.

SFC Ollie is now doing the same thing, promoting a flagrant violation of both the Code of Conduct and the Geneva Conventions (both rules that the military has to follow) and thinks there is nothing wrong with it.

And.........some idiot civilian (who knows nothing about being in the military) is applauding him.

Quick question.............would you be as supportive of someone looking the other way for gay servicemembers as you are of looking the other way for these Marines who broke the rules as well?


----------



## The Infidel

ABikerSailor said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I think of the abuse of American corpses and abuse of American POW's and the various beheadings of Americans..........
> 
> I say give these guys some extra duty, a promotion, and a medal.............
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting...........SFC Ollie has been on this board talking about homosexuality and that it shouldn't be allowed in the military (see some of the older DADT threads on here), and has stated that I must have been a bad First Class because I would not turn in people who were gay that I knew.
> 
> SFC Ollie is now doing the same thing, promoting a flagrant violation of both the Code of Conduct and the Geneva Conventions (both rules that the military has to follow) and thinks there is nothing wrong with it.
> 
> And.........some idiot civilian (who knows nothing about being in the military) is applauding him.
> 
> Quick question.............would you be as supportive of someone looking the other way for gay servicemembers as you are of looking the other way for these Marines who broke the rules as well?
Click to expand...



ABS... you are not wrong in what you are saying.


Its just I understand why they did it, thats all I am saying.

I wouldnt have done it. I cant even bring myself to hunt deer, much less point a gun at another living human, but I understand why they did it.

I think it is unfortunate that these guys are putting our military in a bad light. We have the best soldiers in the world. For the most part they are more compassionate than any others on earth.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Hey.......the military is just like civilian society in that if you don't follow the rules, you have to pay the price.

And..........fwiw..........not everyone who is in the military is a great person.  Over the 20 years that I've served, I've seen one or two doozies...............

I've seen a prostitution ring at NATTC.

I've seen a guy get arrrested at the command for raping another male (yes, and he was married).

I've seen a guy carry around his wife in the trunk of his car for a week after he'd accidentally killed her.

I've seen a Master Chief get the brig for raping his stepson.

No.  Not everyone in the military is a good person.


----------



## Douger

IndependntLogic said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because its the PC thing to do....DUUHHH!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right. Because that's all our military commanders think. PC. They don't think about what could further negatively impact the campaign.
> 
> Yeah... you guys don't respect or understand the military at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You wanna say that about me, Cowman?
> I'm curious there Cowman. *How many times have you been in battle? How about in a life threatening situation on behalf of your country? How many months have you lived in enemy territory?*
> The answer's obvious to anyone reading your posts.
> You know what Afghans do to our troops? The women have a kind of ceremony. You're bound. Then they carefully cut open your stomach and pull out your intenstines and lay them on your chest. You can live for hours in excrutiating pain that way.
> Yes what they did was politically incorrect. But forward snipers have it tougher than most troops. Guess who find the bodies that are left behind with their guts left out? ForeCons and 317's. Guess who sees their friends getting arms and legs getting blown off every day?
> The real crime here? Being stupid enough to let it get on film. They're not politicians but now their careers are tanked for political reasons.
> That's a shame.
> You want to show us all how one should behave after months or more of battle stress? Fine. Pack your weapon and drop us a postcard from Afghanistan.
Click to expand...

Life threatening situation in murka ? I fought many a forest fire !
You're funny ! The only time I was in "enemy territory" was at the airport in Miami international.
Korea had great weed ! murkins were not allowed access to any ammo.Kick ass equipment. Kinda like a big dildo.
Including the party animals with artillery at the DMZ. We didn't care. The yobos gargled for another $4.
Paradise !
Go wave your flag....idiot.


----------



## IndependntLogic

Cowman said:


> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did I ever claim to have served? Most Americans have not served, and there's nothing wrong with that. The thing is, I respect our soldiers, and I also demand that they act professionally and becoming of the uniform they wear. They serve their country and they fight for their citizens. It is my right as an American citizen to speak out. I respect our troops, that's why I fight every day to have them come back home *unlike you who would like them to stay in those countries indefinitely getting shot at and killed *so you feel safe for another day.
> 
> I want them home.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your stupid is leaking out again. I'm all over this board saying I want them home and have been for a long time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ohhh... color me genuinely surprised! You come off as the type that you associate with who calls people like me who want our soldiers home and away from harms way unpatriotic and un-American... because we DARE wish to not have our soldiers fighting terrorists and insurgents in foreign lands.
Click to expand...


"The type" eh? Most of the people disagreeing with you on this thread have called me a "Liberal", "Leftist" etc... at least once or twice because I am as strong in my opinions that are labeled "Liberal" as I am in my opinions that are labeled "Conservative".

Look, I get it. You think our soldiers should be held to a higher standard than was displayed here. While you and I are probably in agreement about what happened at Abu Graihb or Git-Mo (although for VERY different reasons - I actually condone effective interrogation but that was not done at either facility), here we depart.
Tell you what. I used to volunteer at the ER at Children's hospital. Go do that for a few months. Then imagine what it would be like if everything you saw had been done _intentionally_. Then tell me that you would never make a mistake. You would never be so emotionally rattled that you might do something that people back home just couldn't understand.
BTW, I'm the Director of Operations for the New Terrain Foundation. What do we do? We offer an alternative to the VA (a LOT of our guys won't go there) for emotional repair and boosting. 
If you see a homeless man, chances are 1 in 3 he's a Vet. That's right. 1 in 3 homeless men in America are veterans. I promise you, you have NO idea what they have gone through over there since the first Gulf War. Some of them still wear flea collars around their boots. 
So while it's easy for you to hold everyone else to these high standards and lofty ideals, you might consider being a little more understanding and compassionate. Marines don't piss on corpses for entertainment or because they're angry. Especially not those who have the discipline to get through 317 training. They do it because some of their circuits have been fried through the trauma and they want to explode.

But okay fine. Judge. Screw understanding when it doesn't conform to Liberal prejudices. Just don't point your finger at Conservatives when they do the same thing because while you do this, you're no different. Just something to think about.


----------



## The Infidel

ABikerSailor said:


> Hey.......the military is just like civilian society in that if you don't follow the rules, you have to pay the price.
> 
> And..........fwiw..........not everyone who is in the military is a great person.  Over the 20 years that I've served, I've seen one or two doozies...............
> 
> I've seen a prostitution ring at NATTC.
> 
> I've seen a guy get arrrested at the command for raping another male (yes, and he was married).
> 
> I've seen a guy carry around his wife in the trunk of his car for a week after he'd accidentally killed her.
> 
> I've seen a Master Chief get the brig for raping his stepson.
> 
> No.  Not everyone in the military is a good person.



That goes without saying.... there are some real animals out there in ALL walks of life.

The entire incident is unfortunate.


I think we can walk away from this as friends... watcha think ABS?


----------



## Cowman

The Infidel said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> your a pussy with your head in the sand!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're. You're a pussy with your head in the sand!
> 
> That's the proper way to say it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You lefties are such grammar nazi's!!!!
Click to expand...


Well, when you're always demanding that people learn to speak English, you best have a fairly good grasp of it yourself.


----------



## Cowman

IndependntLogic said:


> Marines don't piss on corpses for entertainment or because they're angry. Especially not those who have the discipline to get through 317 training. They do it because some of their circuits have been fried through the trauma and they want to explode.



That's bullshit and you know it. You can't apply Post Traumatic Stress disorder to every fucking thing that a soldier does. There are bad eggs out there and you know it... people who get a kick out of the stuff that they do.

Believe it or not, not everybody in the military is a good person or there for the right reasons. There are gang members in the military by the thousands who go there to receive training and combat experience and come back home to teach their fellow thugs. Don't believe me? Look up the military investigations into the matter. I don't automatically assume every soldier is there for the right reasons or is a good natured human being. I judge a person based on their actions, and you can't always chalk up the actions of a soldier to the ravages of war.

There's a reason why this sort of thing only comes out so often, it's because the rest of the soldiers are disciplined and they actually act like a soldier, not a barbarian.

And for the record, much of my family is military, even if I am not. I have an uncle in the Air Force, I have a cousin who will be joining the Air Force in his fathers footsteps, I have another cousin in the Navy as a Navy Hospital Corpsman, and I have a cousin who is a marine who is staying with us right now in our home while he works a job because he's down on his luck. I know and I respect the military in as great of a capacity as a civilian can.


----------



## bodecea

The Infidel said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> You obviously were not born here.
> 
> I revoke your Texas citizenship
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a retard. There are lots of liberals living in Texas. *And no, I wasn't born in Texas.* I don't even consider myself a Texan. But I am a citizen of Texas.
> 
> Your constant use of Comic Sans shows you what a joke you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Thank GAWD... your an insult to Texans everywhere
> 
> 
> Oh yeah.... comic sans this
Click to expand...

Texan?   Explains a great deal.


----------



## IndependntLogic

Cowman said:


> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Marines don't piss on corpses for entertainment or because they're angry. Especially not those who have the discipline to get through 317 training. They do it because some of their circuits have been fried through the trauma and they want to explode.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's bullshit and you know it. You can't apply Post Traumatic Stress disorder to every fucking thing that a soldier does. There are bad eggs out there and you know it... people who get a kick out of the stuff that they do.
> 
> Believe it or not, not everybody in the military is a good person or there for the right reasons. There are gang members in the military by the thousands who go there to receive training and combat experience and come back home to teach their fellow thugs. Don't believe me? Look up the military investigations into the matter. I don't automatically assume every soldier is there for the right reasons or is a good natured human being. I judge a person based on their actions, and you can't always chalk up the actions of a soldier to the ravages of war.
> 
> There's a reason why this sort of thing only comes out so often, it's because the rest of the soldiers are disciplined and they actually act like a soldier, not a barbarian.
> 
> And for the record, much of my family is military, even if I am not. I have an uncle in the Air Force, I have a cousin who will be joining the Air Force in his fathers footsteps, I have another cousin in the Navy as a Navy Hospital Corpsman, and I have a cousin who is a marine who is staying with us right now in our home while he works a job because he's down on his luck. I know and I respect the military in as great of a capacity as a civilian can.
Click to expand...


Of course not everyone in the military is a good person. Obviously you've made up your mind without any direct experience. I get it. Many Conservatives are only understanding and / or sympathetic toward those who fit neatly in the "worthy of sympathy by Conservatives" box.
You're exactly the same - just the Liberal version.


----------



## SFC Ollie

Gaybiker, when I want shit from you I'll ring your bell.

I am still against repealing DADT (Did you know at least one state is attempting to overturn that for their National Guard?)

And I am following the rules, first thing i said was to give these troops extra duty. Not my fault that the enemy we are fighting does much worse than this to our troops and gets a pass from you pussy fucks.............


----------



## ABikerSailor

IndependntLogic said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Marines don't piss on corpses for entertainment or because they're angry. Especially not those who have the discipline to get through 317 training. They do it because some of their circuits have been fried through the trauma and they want to explode.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's bullshit and you know it. You can't apply Post Traumatic Stress disorder to every fucking thing that a soldier does. There are bad eggs out there and you know it... people who get a kick out of the stuff that they do.
> 
> Believe it or not, not everybody in the military is a good person or there for the right reasons. There are gang members in the military by the thousands who go there to receive training and combat experience and come back home to teach their fellow thugs. Don't believe me? Look up the military investigations into the matter. I don't automatically assume every soldier is there for the right reasons or is a good natured human being. I judge a person based on their actions, and you can't always chalk up the actions of a soldier to the ravages of war.
> 
> There's a reason why this sort of thing only comes out so often, it's because the rest of the soldiers are disciplined and they actually act like a soldier, not a barbarian.
> 
> And for the record, much of my family is military, even if I am not. I have an uncle in the Air Force, I have a cousin who will be joining the Air Force in his fathers footsteps, I have another cousin in the Navy as a Navy Hospital Corpsman, and I have a cousin who is a marine who is staying with us right now in our home while he works a job because he's down on his luck. I know and I respect the military in as great of a capacity as a civilian can.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not everyone in the military is a good person. Obviously you've made up your mind without any direct experience. I get it. Many Conservatives are only understanding and / or sympathetic toward those who fit neatly in the "worthy of sympathy by Conservatives" box.
> You're exactly the same - just the Liberal version.
Click to expand...


Actually, not everyone in the military is a good person.  Over the 20 years that I served from 1982 until 2002, here are some of the things that I saw...........

Working at NATTC in the mid 80's, there was a prostitution ring ran by female Marines.

During that time, I also saw a man accidentally kill his wife and carry her around in the trunk of her car for a week.  The reason he was caught?  The gate guard smelled the body.  Apparently, he'd pushed her, she fell and caught a corner on the way down.

Also have processed paperwork on an MCPO who got kicked out and lost his retirement.  What did he do?  He was caught molesting his stepson.

In the mid 90's while stationed with a squadron, saw one of the mechs get arrested at the command by civilian AND military police.  He'd raped one of his airmen at a party at his house, and yes......he was married.

So no.  Not everyone in the military is a good person.


----------



## ABikerSailor

SFC Ollie said:


> Gaybiker, when I want shit from you I'll ring your bell.
> 
> I am still against repealing DADT (Did you know at least one state is attempting to overturn that for their National Guard?)
> 
> And I am following the rules, first thing i said was to give these troops extra duty. Not my fault that the enemy we are fighting does much worse than this to our troops and gets a pass from you pussy fucks.............



Like I said Stupid Fucker Called Ollie, you support troops breaking the Geneva Conventions and the Code of Conduct.

Good to know that such a great NCO such as yourself supports breaking international as well as military rules.


----------



## Cowman

IndependntLogic said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Marines don't piss on corpses for entertainment or because they're angry. Especially not those who have the discipline to get through 317 training. They do it because some of their circuits have been fried through the trauma and they want to explode.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's bullshit and you know it. You can't apply Post Traumatic Stress disorder to every fucking thing that a soldier does. There are bad eggs out there and you know it... people who get a kick out of the stuff that they do.
> 
> Believe it or not, not everybody in the military is a good person or there for the right reasons. There are gang members in the military by the thousands who go there to receive training and combat experience and come back home to teach their fellow thugs. Don't believe me? Look up the military investigations into the matter. I don't automatically assume every soldier is there for the right reasons or is a good natured human being. I judge a person based on their actions, and you can't always chalk up the actions of a soldier to the ravages of war.
> 
> There's a reason why this sort of thing only comes out so often, it's because the rest of the soldiers are disciplined and they actually act like a soldier, not a barbarian.
> 
> And for the record, much of my family is military, even if I am not. I have an uncle in the Air Force, I have a cousin who will be joining the Air Force in his fathers footsteps, I have another cousin in the Navy as a Navy Hospital Corpsman, and I have a cousin who is a marine who is staying with us right now in our home while he works a job because he's down on his luck. I know and I respect the military in as great of a capacity as a civilian can.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not everyone in the military is a good person. Obviously you've made up your mind without any direct experience. I get it. Many Conservatives are only understanding and / or sympathetic toward those who fit neatly in the "worthy of sympathy by Conservatives" box.
> You're exactly the same - just the Liberal version.
Click to expand...


Wrong again my friend. Pretty much my entire family is conservative(why the hell do you think we're in Texas to begin with?), and I am entirely understanding, sympathetic and loving towards all of them. I live and work among conservatives. My humanity doesn't have a political filter.


----------



## Sunshine

Cowman said:


> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's bullshit and you know it. You can't apply Post Traumatic Stress disorder to every fucking thing that a soldier does. There are bad eggs out there and you know it... people who get a kick out of the stuff that they do.
> 
> Believe it or not, not everybody in the military is a good person or there for the right reasons. There are gang members in the military by the thousands who go there to receive training and combat experience and come back home to teach their fellow thugs. Don't believe me? Look up the military investigations into the matter. I don't automatically assume every soldier is there for the right reasons or is a good natured human being. I judge a person based on their actions, and you can't always chalk up the actions of a soldier to the ravages of war.
> 
> There's a reason why this sort of thing only comes out so often, it's because the rest of the soldiers are disciplined and they actually act like a soldier, not a barbarian.
> 
> And for the record, much of my family is military, even if I am not. I have an uncle in the Air Force, I have a cousin who will be joining the Air Force in his fathers footsteps, I have another cousin in the Navy as a Navy Hospital Corpsman, and I have a cousin who is a marine who is staying with us right now in our home while he works a job because he's down on his luck. I know and I respect the military in as great of a capacity as a civilian can.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course not everyone in the military is a good person. Obviously you've made up your mind without any direct experience. I get it. Many Conservatives are only understanding and / or sympathetic toward those who fit neatly in the "worthy of sympathy by Conservatives" box.
> You're exactly the same - just the Liberal version.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong again my friend. Pretty much my entire family is conservative(why the hell do you think we're in Texas to begin with?), and I am entirely understanding, sympathetic and loving towards all of them. My humanity doesn't have a political filter.
Click to expand...


The problem is that people like cowpile are so adamant for war to be politically correct that eventually the US will end up in the same place the Confederacy with all its talk of chivalry ended up.  

This is America.  We can criticize the government, even the military if we so choose.  I have no problem with that.  The problem I have is the miltary weakening itself in order to placate them.  The response to this should have been 'Ladies and gentlemen we are at war.  We will fight that war the way we see fit with or without your approval.'

My only beef with this is the camera.


----------



## IndependntLogic

ABikerSailor said:


> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's bullshit and you know it. You can't apply Post Traumatic Stress disorder to every fucking thing that a soldier does. There are bad eggs out there and you know it... people who get a kick out of the stuff that they do.
> 
> Believe it or not, not everybody in the military is a good person or there for the right reasons. There are gang members in the military by the thousands who go there to receive training and combat experience and come back home to teach their fellow thugs. Don't believe me? Look up the military investigations into the matter. I don't automatically assume every soldier is there for the right reasons or is a good natured human being. I judge a person based on their actions, and you can't always chalk up the actions of a soldier to the ravages of war.
> 
> There's a reason why this sort of thing only comes out so often, it's because the rest of the soldiers are disciplined and they actually act like a soldier, not a barbarian.
> 
> And for the record, much of my family is military, even if I am not. I have an uncle in the Air Force, I have a cousin who will be joining the Air Force in his fathers footsteps, I have another cousin in the Navy as a Navy Hospital Corpsman, and I have a cousin who is a marine who is staying with us right now in our home while he works a job because he's down on his luck. I know and I respect the military in as great of a capacity as a civilian can.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course not everyone in the military is a good person. Obviously you've made up your mind without any direct experience. I get it. Many Conservatives are only understanding and / or sympathetic toward those who fit neatly in the "worthy of sympathy by Conservatives" box.
> You're exactly the same - just the Liberal version.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, not everyone in the military is a good person.  Over the 20 years that I served from 1982 until 2002, here are some of the things that I saw...........
> 
> Working at NATTC in the mid 80's, there was a prostitution ring ran by female Marines.
> 
> During that time, I also saw a man accidentally kill his wife and carry her around in the trunk of her car for a week.  The reason he was caught?  The gate guard smelled the body.  Apparently, he'd pushed her, she fell and caught a corner on the way down.
> 
> Also have processed paperwork on an MCPO who got kicked out and lost his retirement.  What did he do?  He was caught molesting his stepson.
> 
> In the mid 90's while stationed with a squadron, saw one of the mechs get arrested at the command by civilian AND military police.  He'd raped one of his airmen at a party at his house, and yes......he was married.
> 
> So no.  Not everyone in the military is a good person.
Click to expand...


You realize I just said "not everyone in the military is a good person" right? 

I've seen what you've seen and worse. Oh and if I gave the impression that I don't think these guys should be disciplined, let me correct that. They should. What I think is sad, is that it probably will be WAY disproportionate to the offense because this thing has become a PR and policital clusterfck.


----------



## bodecea

Sunshine said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course not everyone in the military is a good person. Obviously you've made up your mind without any direct experience. I get it. Many Conservatives are only understanding and / or sympathetic toward those who fit neatly in the "worthy of sympathy by Conservatives" box.
> You're exactly the same - just the Liberal version.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again my friend. Pretty much my entire family is conservative(why the hell do you think we're in Texas to begin with?), and I am entirely understanding, sympathetic and loving towards all of them. My humanity doesn't have a political filter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem is that people like cowpile are so adamant for war to be politically correct that eventually *the US will end up in the same place the Confederacy with all its talk of chivalry ended up.  *
> 
> This is America.  We can criticize the government, even the military if we so choose.  I have no problem with that.  The problem I have is the miltary weakening itself in order to placate them.  The response to this should have been 'Ladies and gentlemen we are at war.  We will fight that war the way we see fit with or without your approval.'
> 
> My only beef with this is the camera.
Click to expand...


Wait.   Are you saying that the Confederacy lost because they were chivalous?


----------



## SFC Ollie

ABikerSailor said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gaybiker, when I want shit from you I'll ring your bell.
> 
> I am still against repealing DADT (Did you know at least one state is attempting to overturn that for their National Guard?)
> 
> And I am following the rules, first thing i said was to give these troops extra duty. Not my fault that the enemy we are fighting does much worse than this to our troops and gets a pass from you pussy fucks.............
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said Stupid Fucker Called Ollie, you support troops breaking the Geneva Conventions and the Code of Conduct.
> 
> Good to know that such a great NCO such as yourself supports breaking international as well as military rules.
Click to expand...


Sergeant First Class to you fuckface..........


----------



## Sunshine

bodecea said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again my friend. Pretty much my entire family is conservative(why the hell do you think we're in Texas to begin with?), and I am entirely understanding, sympathetic and loving towards all of them. My humanity doesn't have a political filter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is that people like cowpile are so adamant for war to be politically correct that eventually *the US will end up in the same place the Confederacy with all its talk of chivalry ended up.  *
> 
> This is America.  We can criticize the government, even the military if we so choose.  I have no problem with that.  The problem I have is the miltary weakening itself in order to placate them.  The response to this should have been 'Ladies and gentlemen we are at war.  We will fight that war the way we see fit with or without your approval.'
> 
> My only beef with this is the camera.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wait.   Are you saying that the Confederacy lost because they were chivalous?
Click to expand...


They thought they could not lose because they were chivalrous.  Just like the inane bullshitters on here who think we have to be PC in our wars.  We will PC ourselves into oblivion.  Sometimes higher ground is just an ant hill that will collapse the minute someone steps on it!  We need to win our wars and THEN clean  up the mess.


----------



## ABikerSailor

IndependntLogic said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course not everyone in the military is a good person. Obviously you've made up your mind without any direct experience. I get it. Many Conservatives are only understanding and / or sympathetic toward those who fit neatly in the "worthy of sympathy by Conservatives" box.
> You're exactly the same - just the Liberal version.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, not everyone in the military is a good person.  Over the 20 years that I served from 1982 until 2002, here are some of the things that I saw...........
> 
> Working at NATTC in the mid 80's, there was a prostitution ring ran by female Marines.
> 
> During that time, I also saw a man accidentally kill his wife and carry her around in the trunk of her car for a week.  The reason he was caught?  The gate guard smelled the body.  Apparently, he'd pushed her, she fell and caught a corner on the way down.
> 
> Also have processed paperwork on an MCPO who got kicked out and lost his retirement.  What did he do?  He was caught molesting his stepson.
> 
> In the mid 90's while stationed with a squadron, saw one of the mechs get arrested at the command by civilian AND military police.  He'd raped one of his airmen at a party at his house, and yes......he was married.
> 
> So no.  Not everyone in the military is a good person.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You realize I just said "not everyone in the military is a good person" right?
> 
> I've seen what you've seen and worse. Oh and if I gave the impression that I don't think these guys should be disciplined, let me correct that. They should. What I think is sad, is that it probably will be WAY disproportionate to the offense because this thing has become a PR and policital clusterfck.
Click to expand...


Well.......these are 4 men I would rank in the category of those I just listed.  Why?  Violation of not only military, but INTERNATIONAL rules of war, and that, combined with the clusterfuck it has caused (international incident), these men should be given a General Courts Martial (because of the Geneva Conventions thing), and then if found guilty, should be given a Bad Conduct Discharge.


----------



## Sunshine

ABikerSailor said:


> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, not everyone in the military is a good person.  Over the 20 years that I served from 1982 until 2002, here are some of the things that I saw...........
> 
> Working at NATTC in the mid 80's, there was a prostitution ring ran by female Marines.
> 
> During that time, I also saw a man accidentally kill his wife and carry her around in the trunk of her car for a week.  The reason he was caught?  The gate guard smelled the body.  Apparently, he'd pushed her, she fell and caught a corner on the way down.
> 
> Also have processed paperwork on an MCPO who got kicked out and lost his retirement.  What did he do?  He was caught molesting his stepson.
> 
> In the mid 90's while stationed with a squadron, saw one of the mechs get arrested at the command by civilian AND military police.  He'd raped one of his airmen at a party at his house, and yes......he was married.
> 
> So no.  Not everyone in the military is a good person.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You realize I just said "not everyone in the military is a good person" right?
> 
> I've seen what you've seen and worse. Oh and if I gave the impression that I don't think these guys should be disciplined, let me correct that. They should. What I think is sad, is that it probably will be WAY disproportionate to the offense because this thing has become a PR and policital clusterfck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well.......these are 4 men I would rank in the category of those I just listed.  Why?  Violation of not only military, but INTERNATIONAL rules of war, and that, combined with the clusterfuck it has caused (international incident), these men should be given a General Courts Martial (because of the Geneva Conventions thing), and then if found guilty, should be given a Bad Conduct Discharge.
Click to expand...


Why yeyus!  Why don't we just let INTERNATIONAL law dictate to us in all matters.   Do you really think interantional 'rules of engagement' are meant to facilitate a win by the US?  I, personally, want a win by the US in every battle we fight.


----------



## Cowman

Sunshine said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course not everyone in the military is a good person. Obviously you've made up your mind without any direct experience. I get it. Many Conservatives are only understanding and / or sympathetic toward those who fit neatly in the "worthy of sympathy by Conservatives" box.
> You're exactly the same - just the Liberal version.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again my friend. Pretty much my entire family is conservative(why the hell do you think we're in Texas to begin with?), and I am entirely understanding, sympathetic and loving towards all of them. My humanity doesn't have a political filter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem is that people like cowpile are so adamant for war to be politically correct that eventually the US will end up in the same place the Confederacy with all its talk of chivalry ended up.
> 
> This is America.  We can criticize the government, even the military if we so choose.  I have no problem with that.  The problem I have is the miltary weakening itself in order to placate them.  The response to this should have been 'Ladies and gentlemen we are at war.  We will fight that war the way we see fit with or without your approval.'
> 
> My only beef with this is the camera.
Click to expand...


Not urinating on the corpses of our enemies doesn't weaken us, you idiot. It shows our strength of will and discipline when our soldiers act professionally and not like a rag tag group of radical militants.

Why do you even have a beef with the camera? You should applaud that it was filmed since it shows to the world how big our dicks are, and how low our soldiers are willing to debase themselves in shows of intimidation.


----------



## Sunshine

Cowman said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again my friend. Pretty much my entire family is conservative(why the hell do you think we're in Texas to begin with?), and I am entirely understanding, sympathetic and loving towards all of them. My humanity doesn't have a political filter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is that people like cowpile are so adamant for war to be politically correct that eventually the US will end up in the same place the Confederacy with all its talk of chivalry ended up.
> 
> This is America.  We can criticize the government, even the military if we so choose.  I have no problem with that.  The problem I have is the miltary weakening itself in order to placate them.  The response to this should have been 'Ladies and gentlemen we are at war.  We will fight that war the way we see fit with or without your approval.'
> 
> My only beef with this is the camera.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not urinating on the corpses of our enemies doesn't weaken us, you idiot. It shows our strength of will and discipline when our soldiers act professionally and not like a rag tag group of radical militants.
> 
> Why do you even have a beef with the camera? You should applaud that it was filmed since it shows to the world how big our dicks are, and how low our soldiers are willing to debase themselves in shows of intimidation.
Click to expand...


Yeah. So I gues have issue with American Indians for scalping their kill!   

Why don't you enlist, you idiot.  Then you can speak with authority.  Oh wait!  I know why you don't.  Because you are chicken shit!


----------



## ABikerSailor

Sunshine said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> You realize I just said "not everyone in the military is a good person" right?
> 
> I've seen what you've seen and worse. Oh and if I gave the impression that I don't think these guys should be disciplined, let me correct that. They should. What I think is sad, is that it probably will be WAY disproportionate to the offense because this thing has become a PR and policital clusterfck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well.......these are 4 men I would rank in the category of those I just listed.  Why?  Violation of not only military, but INTERNATIONAL rules of war, and that, combined with the clusterfuck it has caused (international incident), these men should be given a General Courts Martial (because of the Geneva Conventions thing), and then if found guilty, should be given a Bad Conduct Discharge.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why yeyus!  Why don't we just let INTERNATIONAL law dictate to us in all matters.   Do you really think interantional 'rules of engagement' are meant to facilitate a win by the US?  I, personally, want a win by the US in every battle we fight.
Click to expand...


Apparently, you've never been in the military, otherwise you would understand just how stupid that statement was.  ALL NATO countries have signed them, and ALL NATO countries (of which we are one) has to comply with them.

Then..........there's the whole Code of Conduct thing which was created by our military for our troops, to define exactly how we as members of the military would conduct ourselves.  That is local, not international, and incidentally.............the Code of Conduct follows pretty much what the Geneva Conventions say when it comes to warfare.

Try again ya partisan hack with no understanding.


----------



## Sunshine

ABikerSailor said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well.......these are 4 men I would rank in the category of those I just listed.  Why?  Violation of not only military, but INTERNATIONAL rules of war, and that, combined with the clusterfuck it has caused (international incident), these men should be given a General Courts Martial (because of the Geneva Conventions thing), and then if found guilty, should be given a Bad Conduct Discharge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why yeyus!  Why don't we just let INTERNATIONAL law dictate to us in all matters.   Do you really think interantional 'rules of engagement' are meant to facilitate a win by the US?  I, personally, want a win by the US in every battle we fight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently, you've never been in the military, otherwise you would understand just how stupid that statement was.  ALL NATO countries have signed them, and ALL NATO countries (of which we are one) has to comply with them.
> 
> Then..........there's the whole Code of Conduct thing which was created by our military for our troops, to define exactly how we as members of the military would conduct ourselves.  That is local, not international, and incidentally.............the Code of Conduct follows pretty much what the Geneva Conventions say when it comes to warfare.
> 
> Try again ya partisan hack with no understanding.
Click to expand...



So you want all NATO countries dictating how we fight our wars!  Groovy!

PS:  I never claimed to have ever been in the military.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Sunshine said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why yeyus!  Why don't we just let INTERNATIONAL law dictate to us in all matters.   Do you really think interantional 'rules of engagement' are meant to facilitate a win by the US?  I, personally, want a win by the US in every battle we fight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently, you've never been in the military, otherwise you would understand just how stupid that statement was.  ALL NATO countries have signed them, and ALL NATO countries (of which we are one) has to comply with them.
> 
> Then..........there's the whole Code of Conduct thing which was created by our military for our troops, to define exactly how we as members of the military would conduct ourselves.  That is local, not international, and incidentally.............the Code of Conduct follows pretty much what the Geneva Conventions say when it comes to warfare.
> 
> Try again ya partisan hack with no understanding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So you want all NATO countries dictating how we fight our wars!  Groovy!
> 
> PS:  I never claimed to have ever been in the military.
Click to expand...


Do you even know what they are?



> The Geneva Conventions comprise four treaties, and three additional protocols, that establish the standards of international law for the humanitarian treatment of the victims of war. The singular term Geneva Convention denotes the agreements of 1949, negotiated in the aftermath of the Second World War (193945), which updated the terms of the first three treaties (1864, 1906, 1929), and added a fourth treaty. The articles of the Fourth Geneva Convention (1949) extensively defined the basic rights of prisoners (civil and military) during war; established protections for the wounded; and established protections for the civilians in and around a war zone. The treaties of 1949 were ratified, in whole or with reservations, by 194 countries.[1] The Geneva Convention also defines the rights and protections of non-combatants.
> 
> Moreover, because the Geneva Conventions are about people in war, the articles do not address warfare proper  the use of weapons of war  which is the subject of the Hague Conventions (First Hague Conference, 1899; Second Hague Conference 1907), and the biochemical warfare Geneva Protocol (Protocol for the Prohibition of the Use in War of Asphyxiating, Poisonous or other Gases, and of Bacteriological Methods of Warfare, 1929).



Geneva Conventions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And........fwiw...........since I came on active duty in 1982, until I retired in 2002, I had ANNUAL briefings (usually 2-3 days) on both the Code of Conduct for the military (like I said, locally made by the U.S.) as well as briefings on the Geneva Conventions, which the Code of Conduct follows.

Might wanna read up on some of this stuff and why the rules are in place before spewing bullshit.


----------



## IndependntLogic

ABikerSailor said:


> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, not everyone in the military is a good person.  Over the 20 years that I served from 1982 until 2002, here are some of the things that I saw...........
> 
> Working at NATTC in the mid 80's, there was a prostitution ring ran by female Marines.
> 
> During that time, I also saw a man accidentally kill his wife and carry her around in the trunk of her car for a week.  The reason he was caught?  The gate guard smelled the body.  Apparently, he'd pushed her, she fell and caught a corner on the way down.
> 
> Also have processed paperwork on an MCPO who got kicked out and lost his retirement.  What did he do?  He was caught molesting his stepson.
> 
> In the mid 90's while stationed with a squadron, saw one of the mechs get arrested at the command by civilian AND military police.  He'd raped one of his airmen at a party at his house, and yes......he was married.
> 
> So no.  Not everyone in the military is a good person.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You realize I just said "not everyone in the military is a good person" right?
> 
> I've seen what you've seen and worse. Oh and if I gave the impression that I don't think these guys should be disciplined, let me correct that. They should. What I think is sad, is that it probably will be WAY disproportionate to the offense because this thing has become a PR and policital clusterfck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well.......these are 4 men I would rank in the category of those I just listed.  Why?  Violation of not only military, but INTERNATIONAL rules of war, and that, combined with the clusterfuck it has caused (international incident), these men should be given a General Courts Martial (because of the Geneva Conventions thing), and then if found guilty, should be given a Bad Conduct Discharge.
Click to expand...


I'm tracking but I disagree. They were stupid but I wouldn't cut em on a BCD. 
I've got a lot of friends who have come back from over there and I dunno, maybe I just have a soft spot in my heart for them. This is unlike any war we've ever been in and I wish we'd get the hell out.


----------



## bodecea

SFC Ollie said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gaybiker, when I want shit from you I'll ring your bell.
> 
> I am still against repealing DADT (Did you know at least one state is attempting to overturn that for their National Guard?)
> 
> And I am following the rules, first thing i said was to give these troops extra duty. Not my fault that the enemy we are fighting does much worse than this to our troops and gets a pass from you pussy fucks.............
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said Stupid Fucker Called Ollie, you support troops breaking the Geneva Conventions and the Code of Conduct.
> 
> Good to know that such a great NCO such as yourself supports breaking international as well as military rules.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sergeant First Class to you fuckface..........
Click to expand...


Oh, you're still in?   And Biker's still in?


----------



## ABikerSailor

IndependntLogic said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> You realize I just said "not everyone in the military is a good person" right?
> 
> I've seen what you've seen and worse. Oh and if I gave the impression that I don't think these guys should be disciplined, let me correct that. They should. What I think is sad, is that it probably will be WAY disproportionate to the offense because this thing has become a PR and policital clusterfck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well.......these are 4 men I would rank in the category of those I just listed.  Why?  Violation of not only military, but INTERNATIONAL rules of war, and that, combined with the clusterfuck it has caused (international incident), these men should be given a General Courts Martial (because of the Geneva Conventions thing), and then if found guilty, should be given a Bad Conduct Discharge.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm tracking but I disagree. They were stupid but I wouldn't cut em on a BCD.
> I've got a lot of friends who have come back from over there and I dunno, maybe I just have a soft spot in my heart for them. This is unlike any war we've ever been in and I wish we'd get the hell out.
Click to expand...


You know......I've got 2 friends over there right now.  One is the nephew of my roomie and one is a nephew of someone who was a good friend of mine, both are in Afghanistan.

One is a medic who travels in an MRAP and the other is working on being a sniper.

Factor in the fact that I'm retired military myself, yeah, I've got a soft spot myself for my fellow brothers and sisters in arms.

But no..................I cannot and will not condone or make excuses for anyone who has commited such a blatant act which violates not only the U.S. Military Code of Conduct, but also violates the Geneva Conventions.

And I AM being easy on them.........if I had my way, it would be a Dishonorable.


----------



## bodecea

Sunshine said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is that people like cowpile are so adamant for war to be politically correct that eventually the US will end up in the same place the Confederacy with all its talk of chivalry ended up.
> 
> This is America.  We can criticize the government, even the military if we so choose.  I have no problem with that.  The problem I have is the miltary weakening itself in order to placate them.  The response to this should have been 'Ladies and gentlemen we are at war.  We will fight that war the way we see fit with or without your approval.'
> 
> My only beef with this is the camera.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not urinating on the corpses of our enemies doesn't weaken us, you idiot. It shows our strength of will and discipline when our soldiers act professionally and not like a rag tag group of radical militants.
> 
> Why do you even have a beef with the camera? You should applaud that it was filmed since it shows to the world how big our dicks are, and how low our soldiers are willing to debase themselves in shows of intimidation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah. So I gues have issue with American Indians for scalping their kill!
> 
> Why don't you enlist, you idiot.  Then you can speak with authority.  Oh wait!  I know why you don't.  Because you are chicken shit!
Click to expand...


YOu mean, scalping them to show the English....the Spanish....the French....that they'd killed an enemy colonist?


----------



## bodecea

Sunshine said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why yeyus!  Why don't we just let INTERNATIONAL law dictate to us in all matters.   Do you really think interantional 'rules of engagement' are meant to facilitate a win by the US?  I, personally, want a win by the US in every battle we fight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently, you've never been in the military, otherwise you would understand just how stupid that statement was.  ALL NATO countries have signed them, and ALL NATO countries (of which we are one) has to comply with them.
> 
> Then..........there's the whole Code of Conduct thing which was created by our military for our troops, to define exactly how we as members of the military would conduct ourselves.  That is local, not international, and incidentally.............the Code of Conduct follows pretty much what the Geneva Conventions say when it comes to warfare.
> 
> Try again ya partisan hack with no understanding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So you want all NATO countries dictating how we fight our wars!  Groovy!
> 
> PS:  I never claimed to have ever been in the military.
Click to expand...



WE ARE a NATO country and the prime mover in it's creation.


PS:   You didn't have to tell us you weren't in the military.


----------



## Cowman

Sunshine said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is that people like cowpile are so adamant for war to be politically correct that eventually the US will end up in the same place the Confederacy with all its talk of chivalry ended up.
> 
> This is America.  We can criticize the government, even the military if we so choose.  I have no problem with that.  The problem I have is the miltary weakening itself in order to placate them.  The response to this should have been 'Ladies and gentlemen we are at war.  We will fight that war the way we see fit with or without your approval.'
> 
> My only beef with this is the camera.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not urinating on the corpses of our enemies doesn't weaken us, you idiot. It shows our strength of will and discipline when our soldiers act professionally and not like a rag tag group of radical militants.
> 
> Why do you even have a beef with the camera? You should applaud that it was filmed since it shows to the world how big our dicks are, and how low our soldiers are willing to debase themselves in shows of intimidation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah. So I gues have issue with American Indians for scalping their kill!
> 
> Why don't you enlist, you idiot.  Then you can speak with authority.  Oh wait!  I know why you don't.  Because you are chicken shit!
Click to expand...


I don't have to enlist or speak with authority... the authorities speak the same as I do, that it's wrong to do it, and that it goes against everything the US military stands for.

So try again.


----------



## Sunshine

ABikerSailor said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently, you've never been in the military, otherwise you would understand just how stupid that statement was.  ALL NATO countries have signed them, and ALL NATO countries (of which we are one) has to comply with them.
> 
> Then..........there's the whole Code of Conduct thing which was created by our military for our troops, to define exactly how we as members of the military would conduct ourselves.  That is local, not international, and incidentally.............the Code of Conduct follows pretty much what the Geneva Conventions say when it comes to warfare.
> 
> Try again ya partisan hack with no understanding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you want all NATO countries dictating how we fight our wars!  Groovy!
> 
> PS:  I never claimed to have ever been in the military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you even know what they are?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Geneva Conventions comprise four treaties, and three additional protocols, that establish the standards of international law for the humanitarian treatment of the victims of war. The singular term Geneva Convention denotes the agreements of 1949, negotiated in the aftermath of the Second World War (193945), which updated the terms of the first three treaties (1864, 1906, 1929), and added a fourth treaty. The articles of the Fourth Geneva Convention (1949) extensively defined the basic rights of prisoners (civil and military) during war; established protections for the wounded; and established protections for the civilians in and around a war zone. The treaties of 1949 were ratified, in whole or with reservations, by 194 countries.[1] The Geneva Convention also defines the rights and protections of non-combatants.
> 
> Moreover, because the Geneva Conventions are about people in war, the articles do not address warfare proper  the use of weapons of war  which is the subject of the Hague Conventions (First Hague Conference, 1899; Second Hague Conference 1907), and the biochemical warfare Geneva Protocol (Protocol for the Prohibition of the Use in War of Asphyxiating, Poisonous or other Gases, and of Bacteriological Methods of Warfare, 1929).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Geneva Conventions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> And........fwiw...........since I came on active duty in 1982, until I retired in 2002, I had ANNUAL briefings (usually 2-3 days) on both the Code of Conduct for the military (like I said, locally made by the U.S.) as well as briefings on the Geneva Conventions, which the Code of Conduct follows.
> 
> Might wanna read up on some of this stuff and why the rules are in place before spewing bullshit.
Click to expand...


I have studied more law than you will ever see in your lifetime.  

If you are such a big bad ass, then why don't you reinlist.  You claim active duty.  You do not claim any combat experience.  Let me guess.  You don't have any!  How easy was that, now!


----------



## bodecea

Sunshine said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you want all NATO countries dictating how we fight our wars!  Groovy!
> 
> PS:  I never claimed to have ever been in the military.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you even know what they are?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Geneva Conventions comprise four treaties, and three additional protocols, that establish the standards of international law for the humanitarian treatment of the victims of war. The singular term Geneva Convention denotes the agreements of 1949, negotiated in the aftermath of the Second World War (193945), which updated the terms of the first three treaties (1864, 1906, 1929), and added a fourth treaty. The articles of the Fourth Geneva Convention (1949) extensively defined the basic rights of prisoners (civil and military) during war; established protections for the wounded; and established protections for the civilians in and around a war zone. The treaties of 1949 were ratified, in whole or with reservations, by 194 countries.[1] The Geneva Convention also defines the rights and protections of non-combatants.
> 
> Moreover, because the Geneva Conventions are about people in war, the articles do not address warfare proper  the use of weapons of war  which is the subject of the Hague Conventions (First Hague Conference, 1899; Second Hague Conference 1907), and the biochemical warfare Geneva Protocol (Protocol for the Prohibition of the Use in War of Asphyxiating, Poisonous or other Gases, and of Bacteriological Methods of Warfare, 1929).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Geneva Conventions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> And........fwiw...........since I came on active duty in 1982, until I retired in 2002, I had ANNUAL briefings (usually 2-3 days) on both the Code of Conduct for the military (like I said, locally made by the U.S.) as well as briefings on the Geneva Conventions, which the Code of Conduct follows.
> 
> Might wanna read up on some of this stuff and why the rules are in place before spewing bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have studied more law than you will ever see in your lifetime.
> 
> If you are such a big bad ass, then why don't you reinlist.  You claim active duty.  You do not claim any combat experience.  Let me guess.  You don't have any!  How easy was that, now!
Click to expand...


Fascinating.   Tell us your expertise in the UCMJ, Sunshine.   I'm listening.


----------



## Sunshine

bodecea said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently, you've never been in the military, otherwise you would understand just how stupid that statement was.  ALL NATO countries have signed them, and ALL NATO countries (of which we are one) has to comply with them.
> 
> Then..........there's the whole Code of Conduct thing which was created by our military for our troops, to define exactly how we as members of the military would conduct ourselves.  That is local, not international, and incidentally.............the Code of Conduct follows pretty much what the Geneva Conventions say when it comes to warfare.
> 
> Try again ya partisan hack with no understanding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you want all NATO countries dictating how we fight our wars!  Groovy!
> 
> PS:  I never claimed to have ever been in the military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> WE ARE a NATO country and the prime mover in it's creation.
> 
> 
> PS:   You didn't have to tell us you weren't in the military.
Click to expand...


Right now the US needs out of any and ALL foreign entanglements like NATO or the UN.  I was actually around when this was all created, but I seriously doubt that you were.  It is obvious you have never been in the military or even out of your own back yard.  We do NOT need foreign powers dictating to us at home or in a foreign battlefield.  

Right now, we have troops in over 150 countries.  We are an empire, like it or not.  And it is the US who needs to be in charge.  That 'hearts and minds' bullshit is just that.  Bullshit.  We got here by winning, not by kowtowing.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_deployments


----------



## Cowman

Sunshine said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you want all NATO countries dictating how we fight our wars!  Groovy!
> 
> PS:  I never claimed to have ever been in the military.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you even know what they are?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Geneva Conventions comprise four treaties, and three additional protocols, that establish the standards of international law for the humanitarian treatment of the victims of war. The singular term Geneva Convention denotes the agreements of 1949, negotiated in the aftermath of the Second World War (193945), which updated the terms of the first three treaties (1864, 1906, 1929), and added a fourth treaty. The articles of the Fourth Geneva Convention (1949) extensively defined the basic rights of prisoners (civil and military) during war; established protections for the wounded; and established protections for the civilians in and around a war zone. The treaties of 1949 were ratified, in whole or with reservations, by 194 countries.[1] The Geneva Convention also defines the rights and protections of non-combatants.
> 
> Moreover, because the Geneva Conventions are about people in war, the articles do not address warfare proper  the use of weapons of war  which is the subject of the Hague Conventions (First Hague Conference, 1899; Second Hague Conference 1907), and the biochemical warfare Geneva Protocol (Protocol for the Prohibition of the Use in War of Asphyxiating, Poisonous or other Gases, and of Bacteriological Methods of Warfare, 1929).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Geneva Conventions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> And........fwiw...........since I came on active duty in 1982, until I retired in 2002, I had ANNUAL briefings (usually 2-3 days) on both the Code of Conduct for the military (like I said, locally made by the U.S.) as well as briefings on the Geneva Conventions, which the Code of Conduct follows.
> 
> Might wanna read up on some of this stuff and why the rules are in place before spewing bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have studied more law than you will ever see in your lifetime.
> 
> If you are such a big bad ass, then why don't you reinlist.  You claim active duty.  You do not claim any combat experience.  Let me guess.  You don't have any!  How easy was that, now!
Click to expand...


What is up with all this stupid talk about enlisting and re-enlisting. Is that really all you have to say? You don't believe citizens of this country should be able to speak about the military?

Such a shallow, petty woman. Oh and thanks for the signature material. It shows how shallow and petty of a human being you actually are.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Sunshine said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you want all NATO countries dictating how we fight our wars!  Groovy!
> 
> PS:  I never claimed to have ever been in the military.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you even know what they are?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Geneva Conventions comprise four treaties, and three additional protocols, that establish the standards of international law for the humanitarian treatment of the victims of war. The singular term Geneva Convention denotes the agreements of 1949, negotiated in the aftermath of the Second World War (193945), which updated the terms of the first three treaties (1864, 1906, 1929), and added a fourth treaty. The articles of the Fourth Geneva Convention (1949) extensively defined the basic rights of prisoners (civil and military) during war; established protections for the wounded; and established protections for the civilians in and around a war zone. The treaties of 1949 were ratified, in whole or with reservations, by 194 countries.[1] The Geneva Convention also defines the rights and protections of non-combatants.
> 
> Moreover, because the Geneva Conventions are about people in war, the articles do not address warfare proper  the use of weapons of war  which is the subject of the Hague Conventions (First Hague Conference, 1899; Second Hague Conference 1907), and the biochemical warfare Geneva Protocol (Protocol for the Prohibition of the Use in War of Asphyxiating, Poisonous or other Gases, and of Bacteriological Methods of Warfare, 1929).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Geneva Conventions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> And........fwiw...........since I came on active duty in 1982, until I retired in 2002, I had ANNUAL briefings (usually 2-3 days) on both the Code of Conduct for the military (like I said, locally made by the U.S.) as well as briefings on the Geneva Conventions, which the Code of Conduct follows.
> 
> Might wanna read up on some of this stuff and why the rules are in place before spewing bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have studied more law than you will ever see in your lifetime.
> 
> If you are such a big bad ass, then why don't you reinlist.  You claim active duty.  You do not claim any combat experience.  Let me guess.  You don't have any!  How easy was that, now!
Click to expand...


Actually, I can't reenlist because I have an RE-2 code on my DD214, which means that I'M FUCKING RETIRED YOU DUMB BITCH.

As far as war service?  Not that I have to tell you but I was in Beruit in 1983, 1984 and 1985........you remember what it was like then?



> Modern era
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Green Line that separated west and east Beirut, 1982
> After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire following World War I, Beirut, along with the rest of Lebanon, was placed under the French Mandate. After Lebanon achieved independence in 1943, Beirut became its capital city. The city remained a regional intellectual capital, becoming a major tourist destination and a banking haven, especially for the Persian Gulf Oil Boom. This era of relative prosperity ended in 1975 when the Lebanese Civil War broke out throughout the country.[37][38] During most of the war, Beirut was divided between a Muslim west part and the Christian east.[39] The downtown area, previously the home of much of the city's commercial and cultural activities, became a no man's land known as the "Green Line." Many inhabitants fled to other countries. About 60,000 people died in the first two years of the war (19751976), and much of the city was devastated. One particularly destructive period was the 1978 Syrian siege against Achrafiyeh, the main Christian district of Beirut. Syrian troops relentlessly bombed the eastern quarter of the city; however, Christian militias managed to counter and defeat multiple attempts by Syria's elite forces to capture the strategic area in a three-month campaign later known as the "100 days war". *Another destructive chapter was the 1982 Israeli invasion, during which most of West Beirut was under siege by Israeli troops. In 1983, French and US barracks were bombed, killing 241 American servicemen, 58 French servicemen, 6 civilians and the 2 suicide bombers*.[40][41][42]



Beirut - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I was also part of Desert Storm, pts 1 and 2, as well as was floating in a combat zone around Kosovo in the late 90's, and yes, I've been under artillery fire.

Oh.........and by the way.........I've also been awarded 3 Navy Achievement Medals, all of them signed by Admirals.

Go fuck yourself Sunshine.


----------



## Sunshine

ABikerSailor said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you even know what they are?
> 
> 
> 
> Geneva Conventions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> And........fwiw...........since I came on active duty in 1982, until I retired in 2002, I had ANNUAL briefings (usually 2-3 days) on both the Code of Conduct for the military (like I said, locally made by the U.S.) as well as briefings on the Geneva Conventions, which the Code of Conduct follows.
> 
> Might wanna read up on some of this stuff and why the rules are in place before spewing bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have studied more law than you will ever see in your lifetime.
> 
> If you are such a big bad ass, then why don't you reinlist.  You claim active duty.  You do not claim any combat experience.  Let me guess.  You don't have any!  How easy was that, now!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I can't reenlist because I have an RE-2 code on my DD214, which means that I'M FUCKING RETIRED YOU DUMB BITCH.
> 
> As far as war service?  Not that I have to tell you but I was in Beruit in 1983, 1984 and 1985........you remember what it was like then?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Modern era
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Green Line that separated west and east Beirut, 1982
> After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire following World War I, Beirut, along with the rest of Lebanon, was placed under the French Mandate. After Lebanon achieved independence in 1943, Beirut became its capital city. The city remained a regional intellectual capital, becoming a major tourist destination and a banking haven, especially for the Persian Gulf Oil Boom. This era of relative prosperity ended in 1975 when the Lebanese Civil War broke out throughout the country.[37][38] During most of the war, Beirut was divided between a Muslim west part and the Christian east.[39] The downtown area, previously the home of much of the city's commercial and cultural activities, became a no man's land known as the "Green Line." Many inhabitants fled to other countries. About 60,000 people died in the first two years of the war (19751976), and much of the city was devastated. One particularly destructive period was the 1978 Syrian siege against Achrafiyeh, the main Christian district of Beirut. Syrian troops relentlessly bombed the eastern quarter of the city; however, Christian militias managed to counter and defeat multiple attempts by Syria's elite forces to capture the strategic area in a three-month campaign later known as the "100 days war". *Another destructive chapter was the 1982 Israeli invasion, during which most of West Beirut was under siege by Israeli troops. In 1983, French and US barracks were bombed, killing 241 American servicemen, 58 French servicemen, 6 civilians and the 2 suicide bombers*.[40][41][42]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Beirut - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> I was also part of Desert Storm, pts 1 and 2, as well as was floating in a combat zone around Kosovo in the late 90's, and yes, I've been under artillery fire.
> 
> Oh.........and by the way.........I've also been awarded 3 Navy Achievement Medals, all of them signed by Admirals.
> 
> Go fuck yourself Sunshine.
Click to expand...


Desert Storm started in 1990.  And it was not fought in Beirut.  

You are a Liar.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Sunshine said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have studied more law than you will ever see in your lifetime.
> 
> If you are such a big bad ass, then why don't you reinlist.  You claim active duty.  You do not claim any combat experience.  Let me guess.  You don't have any!  How easy was that, now!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I can't reenlist because I have an RE-2 code on my DD214, which means that I'M FUCKING RETIRED YOU DUMB BITCH.
> 
> *As far as war service?  Not that I have to tell you but I was in Beruit in 1983, 1984 and 1985........you remember what it was like then?*
> 
> 
> 
> Modern era
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Green Line that separated west and east Beirut, 1982
> After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire following World War I, Beirut, along with the rest of Lebanon, was placed under the French Mandate. After Lebanon achieved independence in 1943, Beirut became its capital city. The city remained a regional intellectual capital, becoming a major tourist destination and a banking haven, especially for the Persian Gulf Oil Boom. This era of relative prosperity ended in 1975 when the Lebanese Civil War broke out throughout the country.[37][38] During most of the war, Beirut was divided between a Muslim west part and the Christian east.[39] The downtown area, previously the home of much of the city's commercial and cultural activities, became a no man's land known as the "Green Line." Many inhabitants fled to other countries. About 60,000 people died in the first two years of the war (19751976), and much of the city was devastated. One particularly destructive period was the 1978 Syrian siege against Achrafiyeh, the main Christian district of Beirut. Syrian troops relentlessly bombed the eastern quarter of the city; however, Christian militias managed to counter and defeat multiple attempts by Syria's elite forces to capture the strategic area in a three-month campaign later known as the "100 days war". *Another destructive chapter was the 1982 Israeli invasion, during which most of West Beirut was under siege by Israeli troops. In 1983, French and US barracks were bombed, killing 241 American servicemen, 58 French servicemen, 6 civilians and the 2 suicide bombers*.[40][41][42]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Beirut - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> I was also part of Desert Storm, pts 1 and 2, as well as was floating in a combat zone around Kosovo in the late 90's, and yes, I've been under artillery fire.
> 
> Oh.........and by the way.........I've also been awarded 3 Navy Achievement Medals, all of them signed by Admirals.
> 
> Go fuck yourself Sunshine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Desert Storm started in 1990.  And it was not fought in Beirut.
> 
> You are a Liar.
Click to expand...


Apparently you can't read either you dumb whore, because now, I've bolded it for you in the part where I'd said that I was in Beruit in '83, 84 and '85.  Matter of fact, it was onboard the USS CONCORD, and we stopped there every month to resupply the Marines as well as UNREP and VERTREP the ships that were watching over them.  That is also where I got fired at by heavy artillery, because we used to anchor out and let the helos do the resupply until someone started taking pot shots at us.  Afterwards, we were required to do little boxes up and down the coast.

Try again you dumb skeevy bitch.


----------



## IndependntLogic

ABikerSailor said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you even know what they are?
> 
> 
> 
> Geneva Conventions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> And........fwiw...........since I came on active duty in 1982, until I retired in 2002, I had ANNUAL briefings (usually 2-3 days) on both the Code of Conduct for the military (like I said, locally made by the U.S.) as well as briefings on the Geneva Conventions, which the Code of Conduct follows.
> 
> Might wanna read up on some of this stuff and why the rules are in place before spewing bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have studied more law than you will ever see in your lifetime.
> 
> If you are such a big bad ass, then why don't you reinlist.  You claim active duty.  You do not claim any combat experience.  Let me guess.  You don't have any!  How easy was that, now!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I can't reenlist because I have an RE-2 code on my DD214, which means that I'M FUCKING RETIRED YOU DUMB BITCH.
> 
> As far as war service?  Not that I have to tell you but I was in Beruit in 1983, 1984 and 1985........you remember what it was like then?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Modern era
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Green Line that separated west and east Beirut, 1982
> After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire following World War I, Beirut, along with the rest of Lebanon, was placed under the French Mandate. After Lebanon achieved independence in 1943, Beirut became its capital city. The city remained a regional intellectual capital, becoming a major tourist destination and a banking haven, especially for the Persian Gulf Oil Boom. This era of relative prosperity ended in 1975 when the Lebanese Civil War broke out throughout the country.[37][38] During most of the war, Beirut was divided between a Muslim west part and the Christian east.[39] The downtown area, previously the home of much of the city's commercial and cultural activities, became a no man's land known as the "Green Line." Many inhabitants fled to other countries. About 60,000 people died in the first two years of the war (19751976), and much of the city was devastated. One particularly destructive period was the 1978 Syrian siege against Achrafiyeh, the main Christian district of Beirut. Syrian troops relentlessly bombed the eastern quarter of the city; however, Christian militias managed to counter and defeat multiple attempts by Syria's elite forces to capture the strategic area in a three-month campaign later known as the "100 days war". *Another destructive chapter was the 1982 Israeli invasion, during which most of West Beirut was under siege by Israeli troops. In 1983, French and US barracks were bombed, killing 241 American servicemen, 58 French servicemen, 6 civilians and the 2 suicide bombers*.[40][41][42]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Beirut - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> I was also part of Desert Storm, pts 1 and 2, as well as was floating in a combat zone around Kosovo in the late 90's, and yes, I've been under artillery fire.
> 
> Oh.........and by the way.........I've also been awarded 3 Navy Achievement Medals, all of them signed by Admirals.
> 
> Go fuck yourself Sunshine.
Click to expand...


Not to get between the love affair here but I just wanted to thank you for your service.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Like I tell everyone, serving for 20 years in the military was a privledge and fun.  Where else could you get the government to send you to 26 different countries and 49 different States (only missing Alaska)?

Best part?  I've been places and seen things that lots of people here in the States can only read about.  I've been to the place in Rhodes where the Colossus once stood, walked around a castle built in the year 1000, as well as have been in an INCREDIBLE church in Palma Mallorca Spain.

Best part of my entire career?  Being selected to serve independent duty tours back to back, one onboard an MSC vessel, followed up by running the MEPS here in Amarillo.

And no..........there's no love lost between me and Sunshine, just wish the stupid bitch would read the entire post prior to calling someone a liar.

Just more partisan hackery on her part.


----------



## logical4u

Cowman said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep.... they NEVER do that do they?
> 
> You asshole... tell that to this guy!
> 
> 
> *FUCK YOU Cowpunk*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comic Sans? What a joke.
> 
> And do you not think I know that they do those things? Why else would you think I'm saying that you're just like them? You don't mind if our soldiers did those things, so why would you mind them doing it too?
> 
> Not much of a difference between your mentality and theirs, except you're on the winning side. So at least have peace with that, my friend.
Click to expand...


We are on the winning side?  Is that because we have been "nation building"?  Assisting in natural disaster in their part of the world?  Have they stopped killing "westerners"?  Are they reforming islam to eliminate Shariah (a sytem of deceit, destruction, and death)?  Please explain to us how islam is on the decline, so we can all feel safer.


----------



## SFC Ollie

bodecea said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said Stupid Fucker Called Ollie, you support troops breaking the Geneva Conventions and the Code of Conduct.
> 
> Good to know that such a great NCO such as yourself supports breaking international as well as military rules.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sergeant First Class to you fuckface..........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, you're still in?   And Biker's still in?
Click to expand...


It's a title. a legal title which I have earned and Use. You have a problem with that?


----------



## ABikerSailor

SFC Ollie said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gaybiker, when I want shit from you I'll ring your bell.
> 
> I am still against repealing DADT (Did you know at least one state is attempting to overturn that for their National Guard?)
> 
> And I am following the rules, first thing i said was to give these troops extra duty. Not my fault that the enemy we are fighting does much worse than this to our troops and gets a pass from you pussy fucks.............
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said Stupid Fucker Called Ollie, you support troops breaking the Geneva Conventions and the Code of Conduct.
> 
> Good to know that such a great NCO such as yourself supports breaking international as well as military rules.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sergeant First Class to you fuckface..........
Click to expand...


No.......to me you're a Stupid Fucker Called Ollie because you support breaking both regular military law, as well as international law.

Glad I never had to take a Code of Conduct class from your stupid lawbreaking ass.


----------



## The Gadfly

IndependntLogic said:


> I've seen what you've seen and worse. Oh and if I gave the impression that I don't think these guys should be disciplined, let me correct that. They should. What I think is sad, is that it probably will be WAY disproportionate to the offense because this thing has become a PR and policital clusterfck.



Precisely the point several of us have been trying to make throughout this thread! I'm not suggesting letting these guys entirely off the hook. I'm fine with a Summary Court on this! What I DON'T want to see, is these men going before a GCM and getting brig time and a BCD; that would be over the top. One more time, we are NOT talking murder or torture here. There are reasons why the UCMJ has other options for discipline; some of you, including some who SHOULD know better, seem to think any public breach of regulations deserves to be recommended for an Article 32 investigation; horseshit! It's the Uniform Code of Military JUSTICE, NOT the Uniform Code of Military CRUCIFIXION, for God's sake! I'm not pulling out the PTSD card here either; those of you who think that a good troop cannot become temporarily unhinged and do something off the wall after a firefight have never seen much ground combat. IT CAN happen, and it DOES happen. Is it desirable? NO. Is it a good thing? Absolutely NOT. Normally, an officer or senior NCO is present to tell the offending parties to knock it off, NOW, and that's the end of it. That didn't happen in this case, and now we have this mess.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with our good friend Ollie here; I DO NOT advocate pinning any medals on these Marines. I want that slap on the wrist to sting, enough so that they and everyone else understands that this was stupid, and NOT a good idea. That's enough. A General Court on this is like using a sledgehammer to swat a fly; it's overkill, and it tears up the furniture and walls in the house up more than just leaving the fly alone would; that's why they make flyswatters. It's also why the UCMJ provides for non-judicial punishment.

Those of you who want to be so hardass on this, let me ask you something; if one of those boys were YOUR kid, and I were his commanding officer, would you want me to throw him under the bus, or treat him fairly and with some degree of compassion and regard for the circumstances?


----------



## ABikerSailor

The Gadfly said:


> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen what you've seen and worse. Oh and if I gave the impression that I don't think these guys should be disciplined, let me correct that. They should. What I think is sad, is that it probably will be WAY disproportionate to the offense because this thing has become a PR and policital clusterfck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Precisely the point several of us have been trying to make throughout this thread! I'm not suggesting letting these guys entirely off the hook. I'm fine with a Summary Court on this! What I DON'T want to see, is these men going before a GCM and getting brig time and a BCD; that would be over the top. One more time, we are NOT talking murder or torture here. There are reasons why the UCMJ has other options for discipline; some of you, including some who SHOULD know better, seem to think any public breach of regulations deserves to be recommended for an Article 32 investigation; horseshit! It's the Uniform Code of Military JUSTICE, NOT the Uniform Code of Military CRUCIFIXION, for God's sake! I'm not pulling out the PTSD card here either; those of you who think that a good troop cannot become temporarily unhinged and do something off the wall after a firefight have never seen much ground combat. IT CAN happen, and it DOES happen. Is it desirable? NO. Is it a good thing? Absolutely NOT. Normally, an officer or senior NCO is present to tell the offending parties to knock it off, NOW, and that's the end of it. That didn't happen in this case, and now we have this mess.
> 
> I'm going to respectfully disagree with our good friend Ollie here; I DO NOT advocate pinning any medals on these Marines. I want that slap on the wrist to sting, enough so that they and everyone else understands that this was stupid, and NOT a good idea. That's enough. A General Court on this is like using a sledgehammer to swat a fly; it's overkill, and it tears up the furniture and walls in the house up more than just leaving the fly alone would; that's why they make flyswatters. It's also why the UCMJ provides for non-judicial punishment.
> 
> Those of you who want to be so hardass on this, let me ask you something; if one of those boys were YOUR kid, and I were his commanding officer, would you want me to throw him under the bus, or treat him fairly and with some degree of compassion and regard for the circumstances?
Click to expand...


Actually, if I was stupid enough to do something like this, I would expect to receive a GCM and a BCD.  

The main reason I would expect as much, is because it is now an international incident.

However...........never in 20 years did I lose my cool so much as to do something along the lines of that, nor did my shipmates.


----------



## SFC Ollie

ABikerSailor said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said Stupid Fucker Called Ollie, you support troops breaking the Geneva Conventions and the Code of Conduct.
> 
> Good to know that such a great NCO such as yourself supports breaking international as well as military rules.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sergeant First Class to you fuckface..........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.......to me you're a Stupid Fucker Called Ollie because you support breaking both regular military law, as well as international law.
> 
> Glad I never had to take a Code of Conduct class from your stupid lawbreaking ass.
Click to expand...


Hey gaybikerbitch, fuck off.........

And since you want to pat yourself on the back so hard I wonder is the Navy achievement medal equal to the Army achievement medal? My bet is that they are. Which means it's almost a fucking give away ribbon. I have 3 or 4 Army Achievement medals and 3 Army Commendation Medals, along with others.

But the only one I wear on my caps is the National Defense Ribbon, of which I have 2 and which if i remember right you talked shit about........

So listen, I really don't give a fuck what some loser E6 thinks about what I think.
I pinned on my Stripes about the time you were getting your ass busted by your first NCO. So talk all you want about sitting on your ass in a ship 5 miles off shore in a Combat Zone, Getting 3 hots and a cot every fucking day. You haven't a damned clue what those troops were facing every day............


----------



## ABikerSailor

SFC Ollie said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sergeant First Class to you fuckface..........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.......to me you're a Stupid Fucker Called Ollie because you support breaking both regular military law, as well as international law.
> 
> Glad I never had to take a Code of Conduct class from your stupid lawbreaking ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey gaybikerbitch, fuck off.........
> 
> And since you want to pat yourself on the back so hard I wonder is the Navy achievement medal equal to the Army achievement medal? My bet is that they are. Which means it's almost a fucking give away ribbon. I have 3 or 4 Army Achievement medals and 3 Army Commendation Medals, along with others.
> 
> But the only one I wear on my caps is the National Defense Ribbon, of which I have 2 and which if i remember right you talked shit about........
> 
> So listen, I really don't give a fuck what some loser E6 thinks about what I think.
> I pinned on my Stripes about the time you were getting your ass busted by your first NCO. So talk all you want about sitting on your ass in a ship 5 miles off shore in a Combat Zone, Getting 3 hots and a cot every fucking day. You haven't a damned clue what those troops were facing every day............
Click to expand...


Never got busted in rank, because I never advocated breaking the rules Stupid Fucker Called Olivia.

And......as far as NAM's?  Most of 'em are signed by the CO, and it takes doing something special to have them signed by the Battle Group commanders (i.e. Admirals).

It also takes a special type of person to fill 2 independent duty billets back to back, both of whom I relieved E-7's, and was REPLACED by an E-7.  Also had special dispensation from BUPERS to administer and carry Navy Wide Advancement Exams as an E-6 because again........I followed the rules and didn't advocate breaking any of them.

Also helped that my error rate for payroll was less than 2 percent, and outstanding by Navy standards was to have less than 5 percent, and I was half that.

But like I said.......while I was in, I followed the rules and didn't advocate breaking them like you seem to be doing.


----------



## SFC Ollie

Yawn


----------



## Sunshine

SFC Ollie said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sergeant First Class to you fuckface..........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.......to me you're a Stupid Fucker Called Ollie because you support breaking both regular military law, as well as international law.
> 
> Glad I never had to take a Code of Conduct class from your stupid lawbreaking ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey gaybikerbitch, fuck off.........
> 
> And since you want to pat yourself on the back so hard I wonder is the Navy achievement medal equal to the Army achievement medal? My bet is that they are. Which means it's almost a fucking give away ribbon. I have 3 or 4 Army Achievement medals and 3 Army Commendation Medals, along with others.
> 
> But the only one I wear on my caps is the National Defense Ribbon, of which I have 2 and which if i remember right you talked shit about........
> 
> So listen, I really don't give a fuck what some loser E6 thinks about what I think.
> I pinned on my Stripes about the time you were getting your ass busted by your first NCO. So talk all you want about sitting on your ass in a ship 5 miles off shore in a Combat Zone, Getting 3 hots and a cot every fucking day. You haven't a damned clue what those troops were facing every day............
Click to expand...




> Join Date: Aug 2008
> Location: Amarillo TX
> Posts: 17,057
> Thanks: 2,067
> Thanked 2,095 Times in 1,649 Posts
> Rep Power: 376



He's in the same league with T(doesn't)M.  Almost 20K posts and only 376 rep power!  LOL


----------



## Sunshine

ABikerSailor said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I can't reenlist because I have an RE-2 code on my DD214, which means that I'M FUCKING RETIRED YOU DUMB BITCH.
> 
> *As far as war service?  Not that I have to tell you but I was in Beruit in 1983, 1984 and 1985........you remember what it was like then?*
> 
> 
> Beirut - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> I was also part of Desert Storm, pts 1 and 2, as well as was floating in a combat zone around Kosovo in the late 90's, and yes, I've been under artillery fire.
> 
> Oh.........and by the way.........I've also been awarded 3 Navy Achievement Medals, all of them signed by Admirals.
> 
> Go fuck yourself Sunshine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Desert Storm started in 1990.  And it was not fought in Beirut.
> 
> You are a Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently you can't read either you dumb whore, because now, I've bolded it for you in the part where I'd said that I was in Beruit in '83, 84 and '85.  Matter of fact, it was onboard the USS CONCORD, and we stopped there every month to resupply the Marines as well as UNREP and VERTREP the ships that were watching over them.  That is also where I got fired at by heavy artillery, because we used to anchor out and let the helos do the resupply until someone started taking pot shots at us.  Afterwards, we were required to do little boxes up and down the coast.
> 
> Try again you dumb skeevy bitch.
Click to expand...


You were never in the military.  Military men are taught to respect women.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Sunshine said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Desert Storm started in 1990.  And it was not fought in Beirut.
> 
> You are a Liar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently you can't read either you dumb whore, because now, I've bolded it for you in the part where I'd said that I was in Beruit in '83, 84 and '85.  Matter of fact, it was onboard the USS CONCORD, and we stopped there every month to resupply the Marines as well as UNREP and VERTREP the ships that were watching over them.  That is also where I got fired at by heavy artillery, because we used to anchor out and let the helos do the resupply until someone started taking pot shots at us.  Afterwards, we were required to do little boxes up and down the coast.
> 
> Try again you dumb skeevy bitch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You were never in the military.  Military men are taught to respect women.
Click to expand...


Well.........the blue ID card that I have, as well as the military retirement check that I draw, combined with an LES that comes to my house whenever there is a change in my check, those things may beg to differ with you.

And yeah.............I do respect women, not shallow skeevy whores who call others liars when they fail to read the whole fucking post ya stupid twat.

Besides.............the chances of someone like you being a lawyer?  Doubtful at best, because you appear too stupid.

(See...........I can make baseless accusations through the computer like you!)


----------



## Zoom

Sunshine said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Desert Storm started in 1990.  And it was not fought in Beirut.
> 
> You are a Liar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently you can't read either you dumb whore, because now, I've bolded it for you in the part where I'd said that I was in Beruit in '83, 84 and '85.  Matter of fact, it was onboard the USS CONCORD, and we stopped there every month to resupply the Marines as well as UNREP and VERTREP the ships that were watching over them.  That is also where I got fired at by heavy artillery, because we used to anchor out and let the helos do the resupply until someone started taking pot shots at us.  Afterwards, we were required to do little boxes up and down the coast.
> 
> Try again you dumb skeevy bitch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You were never in the military.  Military men are taught to respect women.
Click to expand...

and dead bodies of killed enemies.

Marines are better than this and so is America.  We all know how upset we get when we see them dragging dead american bodies.  Do we say, war is hell to them?  Of course not. 

WE ARE BETTER THAN THIS.


----------



## Sunshine

ABikerSailor said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently you can't read either you dumb whore, because now, I've bolded it for you in the part where I'd said that I was in Beruit in '83, 84 and '85.  Matter of fact, it was onboard the USS CONCORD, and we stopped there every month to resupply the Marines as well as UNREP and VERTREP the ships that were watching over them.  That is also where I got fired at by heavy artillery, because we used to anchor out and let the helos do the resupply until someone started taking pot shots at us.  Afterwards, we were required to do little boxes up and down the coast.
> 
> Try again you dumb skeevy bitch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were never in the military.  Military men are taught to respect women.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well.........the blue ID card that I have, as well as the military retirement check that I draw, combined with an LES that comes to my house whenever there is a change in my check, those things may beg to differ with you.
> 
> And yeah.............I do respect women, not shallow skeevy whores who call others liars when they fail to read the whole fucking post ya stupid twat.
> 
> Besides.............the chances of someone like you being a lawyer?  Doubtful at best, because you appear too stupid.
> 
> (See...........I can make baseless accusations through the computer like you!)
Click to expand...


You were never in the military.

Ollie was in the military.  AND is probably a Freemason as well.  He has been respectful to me when I have not been respectful to him.


----------



## Sunshine

Zoom said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently you can't read either you dumb whore, because now, I've bolded it for you in the part where I'd said that I was in Beruit in '83, 84 and '85.  Matter of fact, it was onboard the USS CONCORD, and we stopped there every month to resupply the Marines as well as UNREP and VERTREP the ships that were watching over them.  That is also where I got fired at by heavy artillery, because we used to anchor out and let the helos do the resupply until someone started taking pot shots at us.  Afterwards, we were required to do little boxes up and down the coast.
> 
> Try again you dumb skeevy bitch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were never in the military.  Military men are taught to respect women.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> and dead bodies of killed enemies.
> 
> Marines are better than this and so is America.  We all know how upset we get when we see them dragging dead american bodies.  Do we say, war is hell to them?  Of course not.
> 
> WE ARE BETTER THAN THIS.
Click to expand...


Thank you Rhet Butler.  

Oh wait.  It was Rhet Butler who didn't have any delusions!  

Thank you, Ashley Wilkes.


----------



## Zoom

ABikerSailor said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently you can't read either you dumb whore, because now, I've bolded it for you in the part where I'd said that I was in Beruit in '83, 84 and '85.  Matter of fact, it was onboard the USS CONCORD, and we stopped there every month to resupply the Marines as well as UNREP and VERTREP the ships that were watching over them.  That is also where I got fired at by heavy artillery, because we used to anchor out and let the helos do the resupply until someone started taking pot shots at us.  Afterwards, we were required to do little boxes up and down the coast.
> 
> Try again you dumb skeevy bitch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were never in the military.  Military men are taught to respect women.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well.........the blue ID card that I have, as well as the military retirement check that I draw, combined with an LES that comes to my house whenever there is a change in my check, those things may beg to differ with you.
> 
> And yeah.............I do respect women, not shallow skeevy whores who call others liars when they fail to read the whole fucking post ya stupid twat.
> 
> Besides.............the chances of someone like you being a lawyer?  Doubtful at best, because you appear too stupid.
> 
> (See...........I can make baseless accusations through the computer like you!)
Click to expand...


I know your rank....did you enjoy your nice little 60 buck raise?  I look at it as better than them taking that money away.


----------



## Zoom

Sunshine said:


> Zoom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> You were never in the military.  Military men are taught to respect women.
> 
> 
> 
> and dead bodies of killed enemies.
> 
> Marines are better than this and so is America.  We all know how upset we get when we see them dragging dead american bodies.  Do we say, war is hell to them?  Of course not.
> 
> WE ARE BETTER THAN THIS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you Rhet Butler.
> 
> Oh wait.  It was Rhet Butler who didn't have any delusions!
> 
> Thank you, Ashley Wilkes.
Click to expand...


I can tell, You were never in the military. Military women are taught to respect men.


----------



## bodecea

Sunshine said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Desert Storm started in 1990.  And it was not fought in Beirut.
> 
> You are a Liar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently you can't read either you dumb whore, because now, I've bolded it for you in the part where I'd said that I was in Beruit in '83, 84 and '85.  Matter of fact, it was onboard the USS CONCORD, and we stopped there every month to resupply the Marines as well as UNREP and VERTREP the ships that were watching over them.  That is also where I got fired at by heavy artillery, because we used to anchor out and let the helos do the resupply until someone started taking pot shots at us.  Afterwards, we were required to do little boxes up and down the coast.
> 
> Try again you dumb skeevy bitch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You were never in the military.  Military men are taught to respect women.
Click to expand...







That just about made my soda come back up thru my nose!


----------



## SFC Ollie

Sunshine said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.......to me you're a Stupid Fucker Called Ollie because you support breaking both regular military law, as well as international law.
> 
> Glad I never had to take a Code of Conduct class from your stupid lawbreaking ass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey gaybikerbitch, fuck off.........
> 
> And since you want to pat yourself on the back so hard I wonder is the Navy achievement medal equal to the Army achievement medal? My bet is that they are. Which means it's almost a fucking give away ribbon. I have 3 or 4 Army Achievement medals and 3 Army Commendation Medals, along with others.
> 
> But the only one I wear on my caps is the National Defense Ribbon, of which I have 2 and which if i remember right you talked shit about........
> 
> So listen, I really don't give a fuck what some loser E6 thinks about what I think.
> I pinned on my Stripes about the time you were getting your ass busted by your first NCO. So talk all you want about sitting on your ass in a ship 5 miles off shore in a Combat Zone, Getting 3 hots and a cot every fucking day. You haven't a damned clue what those troops were facing every day............
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Join Date: Aug 2008
> Location: Amarillo TX
> Posts: 17,057
> Thanks: 2,067
> Thanked 2,095 Times in 1,649 Posts
> Rep Power: 376
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's in the same league with T(doesn't)M.  Almost 20K posts and only 376 rep power!  LOL
Click to expand...


Now now, don't go hurting his poor little feelings..........


----------



## Sunshine

SFC Ollie said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey gaybikerbitch, fuck off.........
> 
> And since you want to pat yourself on the back so hard I wonder is the Navy achievement medal equal to the Army achievement medal? My bet is that they are. Which means it's almost a fucking give away ribbon. I have 3 or 4 Army Achievement medals and 3 Army Commendation Medals, along with others.
> 
> But the only one I wear on my caps is the National Defense Ribbon, of which I have 2 and which if i remember right you talked shit about........
> 
> So listen, I really don't give a fuck what some loser E6 thinks about what I think.
> I pinned on my Stripes about the time you were getting your ass busted by your first NCO. So talk all you want about sitting on your ass in a ship 5 miles off shore in a Combat Zone, Getting 3 hots and a cot every fucking day. You haven't a damned clue what those troops were facing every day............
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Join Date: Aug 2008
> Location: Amarillo TX
> Posts: 17,057
> Thanks: 2,067
> Thanked 2,095 Times in 1,649 Posts
> Rep Power: 376
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's in the same league with T(doesn't)M.  Almost 20K posts and only 376 rep power!  LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now now, don't go hurting his poor little feelings..........
Click to expand...




I'll try not.  He is so adamant that dead enemies deserve respect, it is somewhat odd the blantant lack of respect he shows his fellow country men and women.  He verbally pisses on live Americans.  Not hard to figure which side HE fought for!


----------



## Sunshine

Zoom said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoom said:
> 
> 
> 
> and dead bodies of killed enemies.
> 
> Marines are better than this and so is America.  We all know how upset we get when we see them dragging dead american bodies.  Do we say, war is hell to them?  Of course not.
> 
> WE ARE BETTER THAN THIS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you Rhet Butler.
> 
> Oh wait.  It was Rhet Butler who didn't have any delusions!
> 
> Thank you, Ashley Wilkes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can tell, You were never in the military. Military women are taught to respect men.
Click to expand...








At no point in time, have I ever claimed I was in the military.


----------



## Zoom

Sunshine said:


> Zoom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you Rhet Butler.
> 
> Oh wait.  It was Rhet Butler who didn't have any delusions!
> 
> Thank you, Ashley Wilkes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can tell, You were never in the military. Military women are taught to respect men.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At no point in time, have I ever claimed I was in the military.
Click to expand...


Never said you did.  I said I could tell you werent in.  I understand you are a lawyer.  Sort of like how Bachmann is a lawyer?


----------



## Sunshine

Zoom said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoom said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can tell, You were never in the military. Military women are taught to respect men.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At no point in time, have I ever claimed I was in the military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never said you did.  I said I could tell you werent in.  I understand you are a lawyer.  Sort of like how Bachmann is a lawyer?
Click to expand...









I have a JD.  I have not at any time claimed to be a licensed practicing attorney.


----------



## Cowman

Don't worry, you may not be a licensed practicing attorney but you have the unscrupulous personality of a great deal of them down pat.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Sunshine said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> You were never in the military.  Military men are taught to respect women.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well.........the blue ID card that I have, as well as the military retirement check that I draw, combined with an LES that comes to my house whenever there is a change in my check, those things may beg to differ with you.
> 
> And yeah.............I do respect women, not shallow skeevy whores who call others liars when they fail to read the whole fucking post ya stupid twat.
> 
> Besides.............the chances of someone like you being a lawyer?  Doubtful at best, because you appear too stupid.
> 
> (See...........I can make baseless accusations through the computer like you!)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You were never in the military.
> 
> Ollie was in the military.  AND is probably a Freemason as well.  He has been respectful to me when I have not been respectful to him.
Click to expand...


Tell ya what chick........go ahead.......ask Ollie if I served and if I'm retired.  He's seen enough of my posts and verified that I actually served and have retired.

We've talked quite a bit about military things, and he knows that I know my shit, as well as have served.  Ask him about the dual ID card thing.

As far as being respectful?  Wanna talk about the PM's you've sent?  By the way, I still think that you're a brainless bimbo because you didn't bother to read the whole post before calling me a liar.

Try again bitch.


----------



## The Infidel

Cowman said:


> Don't worry, you may not be a licensed practicing attorney but you have the unscrupulous personality of a great deal of them down pat.






Pot meet kettle...





Comic Sans


----------



## ABikerSailor

Nope..........sorry.........Cowman is right........StuntShit is an idiot.

I mean, c'mon Infidel, have I ever lied about being in the military?  You as well as many others know that I've served.

Fucking bitch even called me on it, and decided to skip over salient points before calling me a liar.

Do I sound a bit miffed?  Yeah..........because the dumb fucking whore didn't read the whole thing before going on her bitch tirade.


----------



## Cowman

The Infidel said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry, you may not be a licensed practicing attorney but you have the unscrupulous personality of a great deal of them down pat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pot meet kettle...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comic Sans
Click to expand...


Oh yes... my wanting social programs for the poor, jobs for the unemployed, food and clothing for the homeless and needy in this country around the world, my desire for a free internet, desire for us to be involved in no wars, my fight for equality for women and minorities and so much more. So shady. So unscrupulous. Humanitarians are dastardly fellows yes?


----------



## The Gadfly

ABikerSailor said:


> Nope..........sorry.........Cowman is right........StuntShit is an idiot.
> 
> I mean, c'mon Infidel, have I ever lied about being in the military?  You as well as many others know that I've served.
> 
> Fucking bitch even called me on it, and decided to skip over salient points before calling me a liar.
> 
> Do I sound a bit miffed?  Yeah..........because the dumb fucking whore didn't read the whole thing before going on her bitch tirade.



I think the vets here understand you served, ABS. I have many times expressed the wish that we vets here not quarrel with each other over our service. I hate to see that, maybe because I am one of a generation of vets who learned we had to be there for each other, because for quite a few years, there were damned few other people who gave a damn what happened to any of us.


----------



## Sunshine

The Gadfly said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope..........sorry.........Cowman is right........StuntShit is an idiot.
> 
> I mean, c'mon Infidel, have I ever lied about being in the military?  You as well as many others know that I've served.
> 
> Fucking bitch even called me on it, and decided to skip over salient points before calling me a liar.
> 
> Do I sound a bit miffed?  Yeah..........because the dumb fucking whore didn't read the whole thing before going on her bitch tirade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the vets here understand you served, ABS. I have many times expressed the wish that we vets here not quarrel with each other over our service. I hate to see that, maybe because I am one of a generation of vets who learned we had to be there for each other, because for quite a few years, there were damned few other people who gave a damn what happened to any of us.
Click to expand...


Yeah, and if you all stuck together our fighting men and women would have at least a semblence of support.  This thread has made it perfectly clear the extent to which some of our so called retired _soldiers _sympathize with the enemies of America.  I stand my ground that this is a military matter and civilians just need to suck it up.  And that includes those who _claim_ to be retired military.  

Unless the army decides to publicize names, this will not result in the demise of any future careers.  The video to date has only had about 500k views and that doesn't even come close to equating with everyone having seen it.  Like everything else, this will fade away, and there will even be plenty out there who do not see them as dirty rotten curs even if their names are publicized.  I would likely hire them.  My experience with veterans during my time in academia was largely a positive one. Their work ethic, their respect for authority, their empathy with patients is stellar.  There was only one exception and that guy didn't give himself enough time to decompress before he took on a difficult course of study.  He behaved about like ABS on here only in person, abusing, threatening, etc.  No one held it against him in the long run, but he still left the course of study for something else.


----------



## Sunshine

Cowman said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry, you may not be a licensed practicing attorney but you have the unscrupulous personality of a great deal of them down pat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pot meet kettle...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comic Sans
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh yes... my wanting social programs for the poor, jobs for the unemployed, food and clothing for the homeless and needy in this country around the world, my desire for a free internet, desire for us to be involved in no wars, my fight for equality for women and minorities and so much more. So shady. So unscrupulous. Humanitarians are dastardly fellows yes?
Click to expand...


You are a crock.  You stand for nothing.  You claim to fight for 'equality for women' but you encounter one who has the type of education a man gets, and all you can do is insult it.  You are full of more shit than a bubbly fart!


----------



## Sunshine

ABikerSailor said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well.........the blue ID card that I have, as well as the military retirement check that I draw, combined with an LES that comes to my house whenever there is a change in my check, those things may beg to differ with you.
> 
> And yeah.............I do respect women, not shallow skeevy whores who call others liars when they fail to read the whole fucking post ya stupid twat.
> 
> Besides.............the chances of someone like you being a lawyer?  Doubtful at best, because you appear too stupid.
> 
> (See...........I can make baseless accusations through the computer like you!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were never in the military.
> 
> Ollie was in the military.  AND is probably a Freemason as well.  He has been respectful to me when I have not been respectful to him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell ya what chick........go ahead.......ask Ollie if I served and if I'm retired.  He's seen enough of my posts and verified that I actually served and have retired.
> 
> We've talked quite a bit about military things, and he knows that I know my shit, as well as have served.  Ask him about the dual ID card thing.
> 
> As far as being respectful?  Wanna talk about the PM's you've sent?  By the way, I still think that you're a brainless bimbo because you didn't bother to read the whole post before calling me a liar.
> 
> Try again bitch.
Click to expand...


What makes you special?  Everyone who negs me gets told they can return to fucking their little dog. Just ask Ollie. And a lot of others. Most just laugh it off, but you,  you went bat shit crazy and followed it with a barrage of verbal abuse the likes of which I have never seen.  What you have posted here is only a drop in the bucket. I had to disable my private messaging except for contacts to get a break from it.  You are a hot head and a loose cannon.  Your being loose in the world is concerning for those of us who are sane.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

The Marines in question appear to have made a simple PR mistake about as serious as running a stop sign and they should be delt with accordingly. 

And no, civilians do *NOT* have a right-much less a duty-to hold military individuals to some "higher standard" than the UCMJ. 

"I can understand..."
"I can imagine..."
*Bullshit!* Combat is so far outside normal human experience that-unless you have actually been there and done that-you cannot help but remain clueless as to the contex in which incidents may have ocurred. And soldiers and Marines have a right to be judged by those who can understand the actual situation. And, no, having seen a Rambo movie once doesn't qualify.

Sunshine understands. I fail to see why this is such a dificult concept for some others.


----------



## Warrior102

Ancient lion said:


> The United States Marine Corps is launching an investigation into a video which appears to show Marines in full combat gear urinating on several dead bodies ... TMZ has learned.
> 
> In the extremely graphic video, which appeared on various websites this morning, at least 4 male Marines expose their genitals and urinate on the bodies.
> 
> The mystery person who posted the video included a caption that reads, "scout sniper team 4 with 3rd battalion 2nd marines out of camp lejeune peeing on dead talibans."
> 
> Now, Captain Kendra N. Hardesty -- a Media Officer for the USMC -- tells us, "While we have not yet verified the origin or authenticity of this video, the actions portrayed are not consistent with our core values and are not indicative of the character of the Marines in our Corps."
> 
> 
> 
> The video
> U.S. Marines to Launch Investigation into Soldiers Urinating on Dead Bodies | TMZ.com
Click to expand...


First off, asswipe - they're NOT Soldiers. 

You can proceed now.


----------



## bodecea

Sunshine said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope..........sorry.........Cowman is right........StuntShit is an idiot.
> 
> I mean, c'mon Infidel, have I ever lied about being in the military?  You as well as many others know that I've served.
> 
> Fucking bitch even called me on it, and decided to skip over salient points before calling me a liar.
> 
> Do I sound a bit miffed?  Yeah..........because the dumb fucking whore didn't read the whole thing before going on her bitch tirade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the vets here understand you served, ABS. I have many times expressed the wish that we vets here not quarrel with each other over our service. I hate to see that, maybe because I am one of a generation of vets who learned we had to be there for each other, because for quite a few years, there were damned few other people who gave a damn what happened to any of us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, and if you all stuck together our fighting men and women would have at least a semblence of support.  This thread has made it perfectly clear the* extent to which some of our so called retired soldiers sympathize with the enemies of America*.  I stand my ground that this is a military matter and civilians just need to suck it up.  And that includes those who _claim_ to be retired military.
> 
> Unless the army decides to publicize names, this will not result in the demise of any future careers.  The video to date has only had about 500k views and that doesn't even come close to equating with everyone having seen it.  Like everything else, this will fade away, and there will even be plenty out there who do not see them as dirty rotten curs even if their names are publicized.  I would likely hire them.  My experience with veterans during my time in academia was largely a positive one. Their work ethic, their respect for authority, their empathy with patients is stellar.  There was only one exception and that guy didn't give himself enough time to decompress before he took on a difficult course of study.  He behaved about like ABS on here only in person, abusing, threatening, etc.  No one held it against him in the long run, but he still left the course of study for something else.
Click to expand...


If you are going to make such an inflammatory statement,   you need to name names and give examples.


----------



## Sunshine

bodecea said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the vets here understand you served, ABS. I have many times expressed the wish that we vets here not quarrel with each other over our service. I hate to see that, maybe because I am one of a generation of vets who learned we had to be there for each other, because for quite a few years, there were damned few other people who gave a damn what happened to any of us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, and if you all stuck together our fighting men and women would have at least a semblence of support.  This thread has made it perfectly clear the* extent to which some of our so called retired soldiers sympathize with the enemies of America*.  I stand my ground that this is a military matter and civilians just need to suck it up.  And that includes those who _claim_ to be retired military.
> 
> Unless the army decides to publicize names, this will not result in the demise of any future careers.  The video to date has only had about 500k views and that doesn't even come close to equating with everyone having seen it.  Like everything else, this will fade away, and there will even be plenty out there who do not see them as dirty rotten curs even if their names are publicized.  I would likely hire them.  My experience with veterans during my time in academia was largely a positive one. Their work ethic, their respect for authority, their empathy with patients is stellar.  There was only one exception and that guy didn't give himself enough time to decompress before he took on a difficult course of study.  He behaved about like ABS on here only in person, abusing, threatening, etc.  No one held it against him in the long run, but he still left the course of study for something else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you are going to make such an inflammatory statement,   you need to name names and give examples.
Click to expand...




Read the thread.    Some of the so called veterans on here have verbally pissed on American citizens.  

And of course it MUST be true since _YOUR_ president's cronies called returning vets 'lone wolf terrorists.'  And that has been the topic of a thread here as well.

But if you want acutall names and examples start with the Fort Hood shooter and go back.  There was one on the base at Fort Campbell who killed fellow soldiers as well.  He is doing time right about now.


----------



## Sunshine

9thIDdoc said:


> The Marines in question appear to have made a simple PR mistake about as serious as running a stop sign and they should be delt with accordingly.
> 
> And no, civilians do *NOT* have a right-much less a duty-to hold military individuals to some "higher standard" than the UCMJ.
> 
> "I can understand..."
> "I can imagine..."
> *Bullshit!* Combat is so far outside normal human experience that-unless you have actually been there and done that-you cannot help but remain clueless as to the contex in which incidents may have ocurred. And soldiers and Marines have a right to be judged by those who can understand the actual situation. *And, no, having seen a Rambo movie once doesn't qualify.*
> 
> Sunshine understands. I fail to see why this is such a dificult concept for some others.



Well, they all think they understand what my mentally ill patients suffer at the hands of their brutal illnesses because they have seen One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.  They make some banal platitudinous attempt at conversation with me, but they have never seen a really sick patient, or even visited anyone in a psych facility.  I just have to tell them that it is an unseen and unknown world.  Most people like it that way.  Mental illness can be hidden away and not affect their daily comings and goings.  We on the inside help with the medications and skills we have.  Of course there is usually some 'outcry' about the treatments when something hits the media.  They have never seen a decompensated schizophrenic, but they think he/she is better off without meds because they have a few side effects.

This is a side effect of war.  I think we and our government should support them.  Regardless.  Maybe they went a little crazy.  Maybe they have poor judgment.  But good judgment isn't an issue when one follows orders.  Maybe, as Ollie suggested, they deserve a medal!  Did they have an order not to do this.  Does it spell it out in terms of 'thou shalt not piss on our enemies?'  If not, some people simply wouldn't get it.  And given that 'piss on it' is a much used metaphor in our society, and given that some people don't get the difference in figurative and literal, well, it can happen.


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

We have high standards of conduct in our military.

If you want to piss on corpses, renounce your citizenship and join the fucking Taliban or go fight for mercenaries in Africa.

Otherwise, pay the consequences for your actions.


----------



## Liability

Corpse pissing is also a cultural taboo in some societies.

I think those Marines showed a decided lack of discipline.  

Somebody should give them a time out.  I hate to be unduly harsh, but I think they might even be in line for a loss of a day's pay.


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

Liability said:


> Corpse pissing is also a cultural taboo in some societies.
> 
> I think those Marines showed a decided lack of discipline.
> 
> Somebody should give them a time out.  I hate to be unduly harsh, but I think they might even be in line for a loss of a day's pay.



They should be punished and sentenced according to the law, not according to you.


----------



## SFC Ollie

OohPooPahDoo said:


> We have high standards of conduct in our military.
> 
> If you want to piss on corpses, renounce your citizenship and join the fucking Taliban or go fight for mercenaries in Africa.
> 
> Otherwise, pay the consequences for your actions.



Yes we do, and more cases than not those standards are upheld and excelled. But how many combat tours had these guys been on? How many have you been on?

Renounce your own citizenship and leave the military to take care of the military...........


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

SFC Ollie said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have high standards of conduct in our military.
> 
> If you want to piss on corpses, renounce your citizenship and join the fucking Taliban or go fight for mercenaries in Africa.
> 
> Otherwise, pay the consequences for your actions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes we do, and more cases than not those standards are upheld and excelled. But how many combat tours had these guys been on? How many have you been on?
> 
> Renounce your own citizenship and leave the military to take care of the military...........
Click to expand...

Are you saying that everyone who has been on as many combat tours as they have just can't resist pissing on corpses? This should be accepted behavior? Is that what you are saying? 


I would bet good money that at least 99% of those who have seen as much combat as them have never pissed on a corpse.


----------



## Warrior102

OohPooPahDoo said:


> We have high standards of conduct in our military.



Yes we do

You served when/where?


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

Warrior102 said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have high standards of conduct in our military.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes we do
> 
> You served when/where?
Click to expand...


I never did. 

I presume you have. How many corpses did you piss on? Was it zero? I'm betting it was.

Did you know even one fellow soldier that had pissed on a corpse? I bet not.

The idea that one cannot help but to piss on corpses once one has seen enough combat flies in the face of the fact that the overwhelming majority of people who have served in combat have never pissed on a corpse, wouldn't you say?


----------



## Sunshine

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have high standards of conduct in our military.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes we do
> 
> You served when/where?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never did.
> 
> I presume you have. How many corpses did you piss on? Was it zero? I'm betting it was.
> 
> Did you know even one fellow soldier that had pissed on a corpse? I bet not.
> 
> The idea that one cannot help but to piss on corpses once one has seen enough combat flies in the face of the fact that the overwhelming majority of people who have served in combat have never pissed on a corpse, wouldn't you say?
Click to expand...


The overwhelming majority of people who have served the US in combat have not been killed.  What does that fly in the face of.  Oh.  Right.  Our enemies!


----------



## Sunshine

Liability said:


> Corpse pissing is also a cultural taboo in some societies.
> 
> I think those Marines showed a decided lack of discipline.
> 
> Somebody should give them a time out.  I hate to be unduly harsh, but I think they might even be in line for a loss of a day's pay.



Well, I do know a therapist who assigned one of her patients the task of pouring a jar of piss on the grave of the patients abusive husband who killed himself.  He managed to abuse her for most of her life, then he gave her the ultimate 'fuck you' - suicide.  She did it and it helped her to attain closure.


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

Sunshine said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes we do
> 
> You served when/where?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never did.
> 
> I presume you have. How many corpses did you piss on? Was it zero? I'm betting it was.
> 
> Did you know even one fellow soldier that had pissed on a corpse? I bet not.
> 
> The idea that one cannot help but to piss on corpses once one has seen enough combat flies in the face of the fact that the overwhelming majority of people who have served in combat have never pissed on a corpse, wouldn't you say?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The overwhelming majority of people who have served the US in combat have not been killed.  What does that fly in the face of.  Oh.  Right.  Our enemies!
Click to expand...


 Nonsensical response of the day.


----------



## Zoom

OohPooPahDoo said:


> We have high standards of conduct in our military.
> 
> If you want to piss on corpses, renounce your citizenship and join the fucking Taliban or go fight for mercenaries in Africa.
> 
> Otherwise, pay the consequences for your actions.



Well, that pretty much sums it all up nicely.


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

Sunshine said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> Corpse pissing is also a cultural taboo in some societies.
> 
> I think those Marines showed a decided lack of discipline.
> 
> Somebody should give them a time out.  I hate to be unduly harsh, but I think they might even be in line for a loss of a day's pay.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I do know a therapist who assigned one of her patients the task of pouring a jar of piss on the grave of the patients abusive husband who killed himself.  He managed to abuse her for most of her life, then he gave her the ultimate 'fuck you' - suicide.  She did it and it helped her to attain closure.
Click to expand...




Good for her. 


BTW, I'm happy we hold our military to higher standards than we hold our licensed therapists.


----------



## SFC Ollie

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have high standards of conduct in our military.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes we do
> 
> You served when/where?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *I never did.*
> 
> I presume you have. How many corpses did you piss on? Was it zero? I'm betting it was.
> 
> Did you know even one fellow soldier that had pissed on a corpse? I bet not.
> 
> The idea that one cannot help but to piss on corpses once one has seen enough combat flies in the face of the fact that the overwhelming majority of people who have served in combat have never pissed on a corpse, wouldn't you say?
Click to expand...



You will never understand then will you? So leave the military to police it's own and go back to your warm fireplace. All is right with the world...........


----------



## Liability

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> Corpse pissing is also a cultural taboo in some societies.
> 
> I think those Marines showed a decided lack of discipline.
> 
> Somebody should give them a time out.  I hate to be unduly harsh, but I think they might even be in line for a loss of a day's pay.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They should be punished and sentenced according to the law, not according to you.
Click to expand...


Interesting how you jump to punishment before a conviction.

In any event, you also seem utterly unfamiliar with the notion of prosecutorial discretiion.  

Let's say that pissing on the recently dead body of the enemy is desecrating a corpse.  Let's agree that the U.C.M.J. forbids desecrating corpses.  Then let's assume that the Marines were indeed urinating on dead Taliban fighters.  

Is that absolutely and unquestionably the same thing as desecrating a corpse?

Are there no mitigation factors to be considered?

Also, let's say that the maximum possible sentence for the UCMJ violation of descrating a corpse could be 20 years.  Are you one of those who would call for maximum time in the event of a conviction at a Court Martial?

I am inclined to stick with what I said before.  I realize it's harsh: but dock them a day's pay!


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

SFC Ollie said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes we do
> 
> You served when/where?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I never did.*
> 
> I presume you have. How many corpses did you piss on? Was it zero? I'm betting it was.
> 
> Did you know even one fellow soldier that had pissed on a corpse? I bet not.
> 
> The idea that one cannot help but to piss on corpses once one has seen enough combat flies in the face of the fact that the overwhelming majority of people who have served in combat have never pissed on a corpse, wouldn't you say?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You will never understand then will you? So leave the military to police it's own and go back to your warm fireplace. All is right with the world...........
Click to expand...

*
How many corpses did you piss on?*


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

Liability said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> Corpse pissing is also a cultural taboo in some societies.
> 
> I think those Marines showed a decided lack of discipline.
> 
> Somebody should give them a time out.  I hate to be unduly harsh, but I think they might even be in line for a loss of a day's pay.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They should be punished and sentenced according to the law, not according to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting how you jump to punishment before a conviction.
Click to expand...


I said they should be punished according to the law. The law does not allow for people to be punished without conviction. I figure since you're so smart you already knew that. My bad.



> In any event, you also seem utterly unfamiliar with the notion of prosecutorial discretiion.


I'm familiar with it. Its also a decision left up to the prosecutor. 


> Let's say that pissing on the recently dead body of the enemy is desecrating a corpse.  Let's agree that the U.C.M.J. forbids desecrating corpses.  Then let's assume that the Marines were indeed urinating on dead Taliban fighters.
> 
> Is that absolutely and unquestionably the same thing as desecrating a corpse?
> 
> Are there no mitigation factors to be considered?


If there are mitigating factors their defense can bring that up.


> Also, let's say that the maximum possible sentence for the UCMJ violation of descrating a corpse could be 20 years.  Are you one of those who would call for maximum time in the event of a conviction at a Court Martial?


Which particular sentence is given out of the range of available sentences is a decision for the court to make. Not you, me or the media.


----------



## SFC Ollie

OohPooPahDoo said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I never did.*
> 
> I presume you have. How many corpses did you piss on? Was it zero? I'm betting it was.
> 
> Did you know even one fellow soldier that had pissed on a corpse? I bet not.
> 
> The idea that one cannot help but to piss on corpses once one has seen enough combat flies in the face of the fact that the overwhelming majority of people who have served in combat have never pissed on a corpse, wouldn't you say?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You will never understand then will you? So leave the military to police it's own and go back to your warm fireplace. All is right with the world...........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> How many corpses did you piss on?*
Click to expand...


If that were any of your business I might answer that.
Now go stoke your fire and calm down. The professionals will handle it........


----------



## 9thIDdoc

OohPooPahDoo said:


> We have high standards of conduct in our military.
> 
> If you want to piss on corpses, renounce your citizenship and join the fucking Taliban or go fight for mercenaries in Africa.
> 
> Otherwise, pay the consequences for your actions.



And one of those standards for both civilians and military is the right to be judged by our peers. The last thing America needs is one more idiotic armchair general. Maybe you should move to France; their military is probably already beyond help anyway.

We have civilians who publicly dishonor our flag and spit on our soldiers but believe they know the moral high ground when it comes to killing in a civilized manner. Cute but silly.


----------



## Liability

BTW:  I believe that the action of photographing (videoing) the dead bodies of the enemy was a separate violation of a Marine General Order.

So, although I still cannot get overly worked up over the admittedly improper behavior of pissing on the dead body of a Taliban scumbag, I do recognize that the Marines are probably headed for more serious disciplinary actions.


----------



## Liability

OohPooPahDoo said:


> * * * *
> I said they should be punished according to the law. The law does not allow for people to be punished without conviction. I figure since you're so smart you already knew that. My bad.



Nice effort to extricate yourself from what you wrote.  But since it's on record, you fail. 

You STARTED off with "punishment."

You don't GET there without a conviction.

So, you remain an objective fail.

Thanks for playing, though.


----------



## Cowman

SFC Ollie said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You will never understand then will you? So leave the military to police it's own and go back to your warm fireplace. All is right with the world...........
> 
> 
> 
> *
> How many corpses did you piss on?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If that were any of your business I might answer that.
> Now go stoke your fire and calm down. The professionals will handle it........
Click to expand...


United States Military professionals don't urinate on corpses.


----------



## Cowman

Sunshine said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope..........sorry.........Cowman is right........StuntShit is an idiot.
> 
> I mean, c'mon Infidel, have I ever lied about being in the military?  You as well as many others know that I've served.
> 
> Fucking bitch even called me on it, and decided to skip over salient points before calling me a liar.
> 
> Do I sound a bit miffed?  Yeah..........because the dumb fucking whore didn't read the whole thing before going on her bitch tirade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the vets here understand you served, ABS. I have many times expressed the wish that we vets here not quarrel with each other over our service. I hate to see that, maybe because I am one of a generation of vets who learned we had to be there for each other, because for quite a few years, there were damned few other people who gave a damn what happened to any of us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, and if you all stuck together our fighting men and women would have at least a semblence of support.  This thread has made it perfectly clear the extent to which some of our so called retired _soldiers _sympathize with the enemies of America.  I stand my ground that this is a military matter and civilians just need to suck it up.  And that includes those who _claim_ to be retired military.
> 
> Unless the army decides to publicize names, this will not result in the demise of any future careers.  The video to date has only had about 500k views and that doesn't even come close to equating with everyone having seen it.  Like everything else, this will fade away, and there will even be plenty out there who do not see them as dirty rotten curs even if their names are publicized.  I would likely hire them.  My experience with veterans during my time in academia was largely a positive one. Their work ethic, their respect for authority, their empathy with patients is stellar.  There was only one exception and that guy didn't give himself enough time to decompress before he took on a difficult course of study.  He behaved about like ABS on here only in person, abusing, threatening, etc.  No one held it against him in the long run, but he still left the course of study for something else.
Click to expand...


Wow... so now you're attacking retired veterans saying that they sympathize with the enemies of America, the enemies that their brethren are currently fighting.

Not wanting them to urinate on corpses has NOTHING to do with sympathy. It has EVERYTHING to do with understanding the need for a professional military who does not engage in such antics.

How disgusting can you get?




Sunshine said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pot meet kettle...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comic Sans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yes... my wanting social programs for the poor, jobs for the unemployed, food and clothing for the homeless and needy in this country around the world, my desire for a free internet, desire for us to be involved in no wars, my fight for equality for women and minorities and so much more. So shady. So unscrupulous. Humanitarians are dastardly fellows yes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are a crock.  You stand for nothing.  You claim to fight for 'equality for women' but you encounter one who has the type of education a man gets, and all you can do is insult it.  You are full of more shit than a bubbly fart!
Click to expand...


What are you talking about? In my profession I work with women all the time who have college education. bachelor degrees, master degrees, postgraduate degrees... you name it. So what are you talking about? What you say makes no sense. The type of education a 'man' gets? What does that even mean? You know that women participate in the educational system in this country too right, without having to have any special privileges? Education has no bearing at all in my opinion of a man or a woman unless it's simply something for job qualification which is not my job description.. It's their character that counts. And yours is tarnished.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Cowman said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> How many corpses did you piss on?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that were any of your business I might answer that.
> Now go stoke your fire and calm down. The professionals will handle it........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> United States Military professionals don't urinate on corpses.
Click to expand...


Ahhhhh the sweet illlusions of a virgin! So sad reality sometimes makes an appearance.
If they were not United States Military professionals where did the corpses come from.


----------



## Cowman

9thIDdoc said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> If that were any of your business I might answer that.
> Now go stoke your fire and calm down. The professionals will handle it........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United States Military professionals don't urinate on corpses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ahhhhh the sweet illlusions of a virgin! So sad reality sometimes makes an appearance.
> If they were not United States Military professionals where did the corpses come from.
Click to expand...


What the hell kind of logic is that? I know that the United States Military killed them, idiot. Corpses do not come pre-urinated on.

What the hell are you trying to get at? Because it makes no sense and has nothing to do with what I said.


----------



## SFC Ollie

Cowman said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> How many corpses did you piss on?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that were any of your business I might answer that.
> Now go stoke your fire and calm down. The professionals will handle it........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> United States Military professionals don't urinate on corpses.
Click to expand...


But they do tell people to fuck off..............


----------



## The Gadfly

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have high standards of conduct in our military.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes we do
> 
> You served when/where?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never did.
> 
> I presume you have. How many corpses did you piss on? Was it zero? I'm betting it was.
> 
> Did you know even one fellow soldier that had pissed on a corpse? I bet not.
> 
> The idea that one cannot help but to piss on corpses once one has seen enough combat flies in the face of the fact that the overwhelming majority of people who have served in combat have never pissed on a corpse, wouldn't you say?
Click to expand...

I don't know. I do know I saw worse, in Vietnam.You ASSUME a lot. You ASSUME that no American military personnel have ever had a moment when they "lost it" in the aftermath of a firefight. You ASSUME that you know what emotions arise in combat, and that every troop, all the time, "should be able to handle that". You ASSUME that YOU would NEVER do any such thing. How the hell would YOU know-you've never been in combat.

Now, you and everyone else with your permanent civilian faux outrage over this incident can rest assured, these Marines WILL be disciplined, according to law- as defined in the UCMJ, NOT in your permanent civilian imagination. I do not know what that punishment will be, but the UCMJ provides a number of possibilities short of a General Court Martial. If I were their commanding officer (and unlike you, I have actually commanded troops in combat), I would recommend them for an Article 15-Summary Court Martial (google that, if you don't know what that is). As I have said repeatedly in this thread, that is the level this offense rises to. That's fair, from what I can see, and I do NOT want to see command railroad these Marines into anything more, just to appease a bunch of ignorant, pantywaist civilians like yourself. You got that?

P.S Have you ever actually READ the Geneva Conventions, or do you just ASSUME you understand those too?


----------



## ABikerSailor

First.......let's talk about docking them a days pay like Liability wants to do......can't be done, because here are the punishments that can be awarded under NJP and who can award them.......



> For Enlisted members Accused Of Misconduct
> 
> There are three types of non-judicial punishment commonly imposed.
> 
> Summary Article 15: commanders (O-3 and below) and commissioned OIC may impose:
> Restriction to specific limits (normally work, barracks, place of worship, mess hall, and medical facilities) for not more than 14 days
> Extra duties, including fatigue or other duties, for not more than 14 days
> Restriction with extra duties for not more than 14 days
> 
> Company Grade (O-3 or below) commanders may impose the above plus:
> Correctional Custody for not more than 7 days (only if accused is in the grades E-3 and below)
> Forfeiture of 7 days base pay
> Reduction by one grade, if original rank in promotion authority of imposing officer (USA/USAF E-4 and below.)
> Confinement on diminished rations or bread and water for not more than 3 days (USN/USMC E-3 and below only, and only when embarked on a vessel)
> Admonition or reprimand, either written or verbal
> 
> Field Grade (O-4 to O-6) may impose:
> Restriction for not more than 60 days
> Extra duties for not more than 45 days
> Restriction with extra duties for not more than 45 days
> Correctional Custody for not more than 30 days (only if accused is in the grades E-3 and below)
> Forfeiture of ½ of base pay for two months
> Reduction by one grade if (USA/USAF E-6 or E-5; USMC E-5 or below; USN E-6 or below); or reduction to E-1 (USA/USAF E-4 to E-2)
> Confinement on diminished rations or bread and water for not more than 3 days (USN/USMC E-3 and below only, and only when embarked on a vessel)
> Admonition or reprimand, either written or verbal
> 
> If the member considers the punishment to be unjust or to be disproportionate to the misconduct committed, he or she may appeal the NJP to a higher authority. This is usually the next officer in the chain of command. Upon considering the appeal, the higher authority may set aside the NJP, decrease the severity of the punishment, or may deny the appeal. They may not increase the severity of the punishment.
> 
> Personnel are permitted to refuse NJP in favor of a court-martial; this might be done in cases where they do not feel their Commanding Officer will give them a fair hearing. But this option exposes them to a possible criminal court conviction. Navy and Marine Corps personnel assigned to or embarked aboard ship do not have the option of refusing NJP, nor can they appeal the decision of the officer imposing punishment; they may only appeal the severity of the punishment.



Non-judicial punishment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, that's where you start.  However, like I said, based on the actions of these Marines (as well as the circumstances involved like deployment, etc.) as well as the international ramifications this has brought, they should be given at the very least a courts martial, as well as be kicked out.

I mean.........I've seen people kicked out for a LOT less than what these Marines did.


----------



## The Gadfly

ABS,
You got a problem with a Summary Article 15 (Field Grade) on this one?  I would think that about what this deserves (absent some aggravating factor we don't know about).


----------



## ABikerSailor

The Gadfly said:


> ABS,
> You got a problem with a Summary Article 15 (Field Grade) on this one?  I would think that about what this deserves (absent some aggravating factor we don't know about).



Yes, I do, because the punishments that can be imposed are much less than what these guys deserve.  Me personally?  I'd push for a Special or General Courts Martial.  I personally don't think that a CO alone would be able to take in all the mitigating factors, that could only be done at a Special or General.



> Types of court-martial
> 
> There are three types of courts-martial&#8212;summary, special and general. A conviction at a general court-martial is equivalent to a civilian conviction in a federal district court. Special courts-martial are considered "federal misdemeanor courts" because they cannot impose confinement longer than one year. Summary courts-martial have no civilian equivalent.
> 
> [edit] Summary Court-Martial
> 
> Trial by summary court-martial provides a simple procedure for resolution of charges of relatively minor misconduct committed by enlisted members of the military. The summary court-martial consists of one individual. That one officer acts both as prosecuting attorney and defense counsel. The maximum punishment at a summary court-martial varies with the accused's paygrade. If the accused is in the pay grade of E-4 or below, he or she can be sentenced to 30 days of confinement, reduction to pay grade E-1, or restriction for 60 days. Punishments for servicemembers in paygrades E-5 and higher are similar, except that they can only be reduced one paygrade and cannot be confined.
> 
> Military members who refuse UCMJ Article 15 nonjudicial punishment can be referred for special court-martial. Usually this decision is made after the commanding officer consults with the command's JAG officer. The accused must consent to trial by summary court-martial before the court can commence.
> 
> [edit] Special Court-Martial
> 
> A special court-martial is the intermediate court level. It consists of a military judge, trial counsel (prosecutor), defense counsel, and a minimum of three officers sitting as a panel of court members or jury. An enlisted accused may request a court composed of at least one-third enlisted personnel. An accused may also request trial by judge alone. Regardless of the offenses involved, a special court-martial sentence is limited to no more than forfeiture of two-thirds basic pay per month for one year, and additionally for enlisted personnel, one year confinement (or a lesser amount if the offenses have a lower maximum), and/or a bad-conduct discharge.
> 
> [edit] General Court-Martial
> 
> In a general court-martial, the maximum punishment is that set for each offense under the Manual for Courts-Martial (MCM), and may include death (for certain offenses), confinement, a dishonorable or bad conduct discharge for enlisted personnel, a dismissal for officers, or a number of other forms of punishment. Before a case goes to a general court-martial, a pretrial investigation under Article 32 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice must be conducted, unless waived by the accused. An accused before any court-martial is entitled to free legal representation by military defense counsel (ADC-area defense counsel), and can also retain civilian counsel at his or her expense.



Courts-martial in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

CO's Mast (what Article 15 is called in the Navy) doesn't come with a jury, and I think these men need to stand trial, not only because of the seriousness of the crime, but also so all evidence can be taken into account.

And........fwiw..........they may be able to be found not guilty.


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

SFC Ollie said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You will never understand then will you? So leave the military to police it's own and go back to your warm fireplace. All is right with the world...........
> 
> 
> 
> *
> How many corpses did you piss on?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If that were any of your business I might answer that.
> Now go stoke your fire and calm down. The professionals will handle it........
Click to expand...


So military law should NOT apply to those in the military? Yes or no?


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

9thIDdoc said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have high standards of conduct in our military.
> 
> If you want to piss on corpses, renounce your citizenship and join the fucking Taliban or go fight for mercenaries in Africa.
> 
> Otherwise, pay the consequences for your actions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And one of those standards for both civilians and military is the right to be judged by our peers. The last thing America needs is one more idiotic armchair general. Maybe you should move to France; their military is probably already beyond help anyway.
Click to expand...


These soldiers ARE being accused by and may ultimately judged by their military peers - and all I have stated is that those guilty of violating the law should be punished - so I don't see where you get off.



> We have civilians who publicly dishonor our flag and spit on our soldiers but believe they know the moral high ground when it comes to killing in a civilized manner. Cute but silly.



Spitting on people is a criminal misdemeanor assault and those who spit on soldiers should be punished in accordance with the law.* Do you disagree?*


----------



## The Gadfly

OohPooPahDoo said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> How many corpses did you piss on?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that were any of your business I might answer that.
> Now go stoke your fire and calm down. The professionals will handle it........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So military law should NOT apply to those in the military? Yes or no?
Click to expand...

False dichotomy. It does, and it will. The point is that it should be applied, and judgment rendered, BY THE APPROPRIATE MILITARY AUTHORITIES, NOT BY YOU.


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

The Gadfly said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> If that were any of your business I might answer that.
> Now go stoke your fire and calm down. The professionals will handle it........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So military law should NOT apply to those in the military? Yes or no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> False dichotomy. It does, and it will. Period.
Click to expand...


??? OK, thanks for the answer SFC Ollie.


----------



## SFC Ollie

OohPooPahDoo said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> How many corpses did you piss on?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that were any of your business I might answer that.
> Now go stoke your fire and calm down. The professionals will handle it........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So military law should NOT apply to those in the military? Yes or no?
Click to expand...


Of course, And military professionals will use military Law. It's called the uniform Code of military justice or UCMJ. I hope that they are offered a company grade Article 15 and that the press is never told their names.... Because it really should never have gotten this far.......


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

SFC Ollie said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> If that were any of your business I might answer that.
> Now go stoke your fire and calm down. The professionals will handle it........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So military law should NOT apply to those in the military? Yes or no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course,
Click to expand...


Then I fail to see what we are arguing over, as we don't seem to have a point of disagreement



> And military professionals will use military Law. It's called the uniform Code of military justice or UCMJ. I hope that they are offered a company grade Article 15 and that the press is never told their names.... Because it really should never have gotten this far.......


what should have never gotten this far?


----------



## SFC Ollie

OohPooPahDoo said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> So military law should NOT apply to those in the military? Yes or no?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then I fail to see what we are arguing over, as we don't seem to have a point of disagreement
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And military professionals will use military Law. It's called the uniform Code of military justice or UCMJ. I hope that they are offered a company grade Article 15 and that the press is never told their names.... Because it really should never have gotten this far.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what should have never gotten this far?
Click to expand...



You, I, and the NYT should never have even heard about this............


----------



## ABikerSailor

SFC Ollie said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I fail to see what we are arguing over, as we don't seem to have a point of disagreement
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And military professionals will use military Law. It's called the uniform Code of military justice or UCMJ. I hope that they are offered a company grade Article 15 and that the press is never told their names.... Because it really should never have gotten this far.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what should have never gotten this far?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You, I, and the NYT should never have even heard about this............
Click to expand...


Well, we WOULDN'T have if those men hadn't been stupid enough to post the video.

Shows a severe lack of discipline and good order.

By the way........quick question...........if you did something against military regs, and people found out about it 6 months to a year later, should you get to skate past punishment, because you saw someone else do it too?


----------



## MaryL

These guys kill people for a living. They are paid to kill the enemy. Violently. With extreme prejudice. Isn't this a little petty, to worry what they do with the enemy dead? Isn't this remarkably small minded? Pathetic. Tempest in a teapot. Killing them was BAD enough. Peeing on them and filming it and posting on the internet was stupid. But a crime? Youthful indiscretion, that's what  this is. Stupid, yes. Petty and not worth bothering with, though.


----------



## The Gadfly

SFC Ollie said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> If that were any of your business I might answer that.
> Now go stoke your fire and calm down. The professionals will handle it........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So military law should NOT apply to those in the military? Yes or no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course, And military professionals will use military Law. It's called the uniform Code of military justice or UCMJ. I hope that they are offered a company grade Article 15 and that the press is never told their names.... Because it really should never have gotten this far.......
Click to expand...


Unfortunately Ollie, it did, if only because some idiot recorded it. If someone had simply caught them doing it, it could have been kept at the company level. As it is, this really has to be field grade, I think. That's assuming it's an Article 134 (general) charge.


----------



## Warrior102

OohPooPahDoo said:


> These soldiers ARE being accused by and may ultimately judged by their military peers - and all I have stated is that those guilty of violating the law should be punished - so I don't see where you get off.



They are not Soldiers, dumbfuck.


----------



## MaryL

The Taliban blew up a 1000+ year old Buddhist shrine, they threaten and  kill schoolgirls for the crime of JUST  trying to get an education. They slaughtered thousands in a soccer field in Kabul for little or no reason.  They helped  Osama bin Laden and his crew. Remind me again, why  I am supposed to be outraged at what these Marines did?


----------



## Sunshine

Cowman said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> United States Military professionals don't urinate on corpses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhhhh the sweet illlusions of a virgin! So sad reality sometimes makes an appearance.
> If they were not United States Military professionals where did the corpses come from.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the hell kind of logic is that? I know that the United States Military killed them, idiot. Corpses do not come pre-urinated on.
> 
> What the hell are you trying to get at? Because it makes no sense and has nothing to do with what I said.
Click to expand...


Regarding your signature line which says:  [Sunshine: "AHh so you think you will one day get to retire with health care. LOL. You will not. I'm using it all up so there won't be any left for you." ]

Fuck you.  Some of us had enough sense to prepare for a rainy day.  You will be out in the rain faster and longer that I ever will!


----------



## Sunshine

Cowman said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the vets here understand you served, ABS. I have many times expressed the wish that we vets here not quarrel with each other over our service. I hate to see that, maybe because I am one of a generation of vets who learned we had to be there for each other, because for quite a few years, there were damned few other people who gave a damn what happened to any of us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, and if you all stuck together our fighting men and women would have at least a semblence of support.  This thread has made it perfectly clear the extent to which some of our so called retired _soldiers _sympathize with the enemies of America.  I stand my ground that this is a military matter and civilians just need to suck it up.  And that includes those who _claim_ to be retired military.
> 
> Unless the army decides to publicize names, this will not result in the demise of any future careers.  The video to date has only had about 500k views and that doesn't even come close to equating with everyone having seen it.  Like everything else, this will fade away, and there will even be plenty out there who do not see them as dirty rotten curs even if their names are publicized.  I would likely hire them.  My experience with veterans during my time in academia was largely a positive one. Their work ethic, their respect for authority, their empathy with patients is stellar.  There was only one exception and that guy didn't give himself enough time to decompress before he took on a difficult course of study.  He behaved about like ABS on here only in person, abusing, threatening, etc.  No one held it against him in the long run, but he still left the course of study for something else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow... so now you're attacking retired veterans saying that they sympathize with the enemies of America, the enemies that their brethren are currently fighting.
> 
> Not wanting them to urinate on corpses has NOTHING to do with sympathy. It has EVERYTHING to do with understanding the need for a professional military who does not engage in such antics.
> 
> How disgusting can you get?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yes... my wanting social programs for the poor, jobs for the unemployed, food and clothing for the homeless and needy in this country around the world, my desire for a free internet, desire for us to be involved in no wars, my fight for equality for women and minorities and so much more. So shady. So unscrupulous. Humanitarians are dastardly fellows yes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are a crock.  You stand for nothing.  You claim to fight for 'equality for women' but you encounter one who has the type of education a man gets, and all you can do is insult it.  You are full of more shit than a bubbly fart!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What are you talking about? In my profession I work with women all the time who have college education. bachelor degrees, master degrees, postgraduate degrees... you name it. So what are you talking about? What you say makes no sense. The type of education a 'man' gets? What does that even mean? You know that women participate in the educational system in this country too right, without having to have any special privileges? Education has no bearing at all in my opinion of a man or a woman unless it's simply something for job qualification which is not my job description.. It's their character that counts. And yours is tarnished.
Click to expand...


Says cow shit man.


----------



## ginscpy

when you gotta go you gotta go...................


----------



## eots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KbQVtFU-4s&feature=g-all-lik&context=G2ed4d75FAAAAAAAAAAA]Corpse urinating fan Dana Loesch attacks RT - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## SFC Ollie

eots said:


> Corpse urinating fan Dana Loesch attacks RT - YouTube





RT ?  Russian Times?


----------



## ABikerSailor

MaryL said:


> The Taliban blew up a 1000+ year old Buddhist shrine, they threaten and  kill schoolgirls for the crime of JUST  trying to get an education. They slaughtered thousands in a soccer field in Kabul for little or no reason.  They helped  Osama bin Laden and his crew. Remind me again, why  I am supposed to be outraged at what these Marines did?



Because the Marines broke the rules under both the UCMJ and the Geneva Conventions, as well as have caused an international incident.

Unless..........of course............you think it's okay for our military to be undisciplined?

I don't, and didn't tolerate it for 20 years in the U.S. Navy.


----------



## eots

SFC Ollie said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> Corpse urinating fan Dana Loesch attacks RT - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RT ?  Russian Times?
Click to expand...


compared to CNN it is a right wing anti-communist network....sad but true


----------



## Warrior102

ABikerSailor said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Taliban blew up a 1000+ year old Buddhist shrine, they threaten and  kill schoolgirls for the crime of JUST  trying to get an education. They slaughtered thousands in a soccer field in Kabul for little or no reason.  They helped  Osama bin Laden and his crew. Remind me again, why  I am supposed to be outraged at what these Marines did?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Marines broke the rules under both the UCMJ and the Geneva Conventions, as well as have caused an international incident.
> 
> Unless..........of course............you think it's okay for our military to be undisciplined?
> 
> I don't, and didn't tolerate it for 20 years in the U.S. Navy.
Click to expand...


They've been convicted?
Where, Murtha?


----------



## logical4u

Cowman said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry, you may not be a licensed practicing attorney but you have the unscrupulous personality of a great deal of them down pat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pot meet kettle...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comic Sans
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh yes... my wanting social programs for the poor, jobs for the unemployed, food and clothing for the homeless and needy in this country around the world, my desire for a free internet, desire for us to be involved in no wars, my fight for equality for women and minorities and so much more. So shady. So unscrupulous. Humanitarians are dastardly fellows yes?
Click to expand...


That is the great thing about the USA: you can spend "your money" however you want.    Another great thing about the USA: other people cannot "force" you (yet), how to spend "your money".

Hit it dude!  Take your money and help all those poor people.  You are "free" to do that.  I think the Lord talked about the people that were obvious in their "piety" and "generosity" when it came to the spiritual thing (did it as a show.....); He was not impressed.  He suggested if you were true to your charity, it would be done, privately, even without the recipient knowing the benefactor.   Just sayin'......


----------



## ABikerSailor

Warrior102 said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Taliban blew up a 1000+ year old Buddhist shrine, they threaten and  kill schoolgirls for the crime of JUST  trying to get an education. They slaughtered thousands in a soccer field in Kabul for little or no reason.  They helped  Osama bin Laden and his crew. Remind me again, why  I am supposed to be outraged at what these Marines did?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Marines broke the rules under both the UCMJ and the Geneva Conventions, as well as have caused an international incident.
> 
> Unless..........of course............you think it's okay for our military to be undisciplined?
> 
> I don't, and didn't tolerate it for 20 years in the U.S. Navy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They've been convicted?
> Where, Murtha?
Click to expand...


Never said they were convicted idiot, I said that they broke rules (which, according to the tape they did), which is why there is an investigation RIGHT NOW going on.

And yeah...........they should be investigated and if the evidence supports it, sent to Courts Martial.


----------



## logical4u

Sunshine said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> You were never in the military.
> 
> Ollie was in the military.  AND is probably a Freemason as well.  He has been respectful to me when I have not been respectful to him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell ya what chick........go ahead.......ask Ollie if I served and if I'm retired.  He's seen enough of my posts and verified that I actually served and have retired.
> 
> We've talked quite a bit about military things, and he knows that I know my shit, as well as have served.  Ask him about the dual ID card thing.
> 
> As far as being respectful?  Wanna talk about the PM's you've sent?  By the way, I still think that you're a brainless bimbo because you didn't bother to read the whole post before calling me a liar.
> 
> Try again bitch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What makes you special?  Everyone who negs me gets told they can return to fucking their little dog. Just ask Ollie. And a lot of others. Most just laugh it off, but you,  you went bat shit crazy and followed it with a barrage of verbal abuse the likes of which I have never seen.  What you have posted here is only a drop in the bucket. I had to disable my private messaging except for contacts to get a break from it.  You are a hot head and a loose cannon.  Your being loose in the world is concerning for those of us who are sane.
Click to expand...


ABS exhibits the classic actions of someone that was abused as a child.  He really cannot stop himself.  Please go easy on him.  It really doesn't benefit anyone to get in a "mud-wrestling match" with him, you both get dirty and he likes it.


----------



## SFC Ollie

ABikerSailor said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Taliban blew up a 1000+ year old Buddhist shrine, they threaten and  kill schoolgirls for the crime of JUST  trying to get an education. They slaughtered thousands in a soccer field in Kabul for little or no reason.  They helped  Osama bin Laden and his crew. Remind me again, why  I am supposed to be outraged at what these Marines did?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Marines broke the rules under both the UCMJ and the Geneva Conventions, as well as have caused an international incident.
> 
> Unless..........of course............you think it's okay for our military to be undisciplined?
> 
> I don't, and didn't tolerate it for 20 years in the U.S. Navy.
Click to expand...


So you chose what regulations to follow and which not to follow? Figures.........


----------



## eots

clearly they need to be reprimanded and then they need help before they become the next  military wife beater or suicide statistic


----------



## Salt Jones

eots said:


> clearly they need to be reprimanded and then they need help before they become the next  military wife beater or suicide statistic



Odds are they already beat their wives or girlfriends, probably both.


----------



## Salt Jones

SFC Ollie said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Taliban blew up a 1000+ year old Buddhist shrine, they threaten and  kill schoolgirls for the crime of JUST  trying to get an education. They slaughtered thousands in a soccer field in Kabul for little or no reason.  They helped  Osama bin Laden and his crew. Remind me again, why  I am supposed to be outraged at what these Marines did?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Marines broke the rules under both the UCMJ and the Geneva Conventions, as well as have caused an international incident.
> 
> Unless..........of course............you think it's okay for our military to be undisciplined?
> 
> I don't, and didn't tolerate it for 20 years in the U.S. Navy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you chose what regulations to follow and which not to follow? Figures.........
Click to expand...


These Marines did.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Sadly...........Salt Jones and eots, both of you may be more correct than you think.


----------



## bodecea

Salt Jones said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> clearly they need to be reprimanded and then they need help before they become the next  military wife beater or suicide statistic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Odds are they already beat their wives or girlfriends, probably both.
Click to expand...



Oh Geesh!    Dude!


----------



## eots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UQzKuE69XE]DOMESTIC VIOLENCE IN THE MILITARY - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## ABikerSailor

SFC Ollie said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Taliban blew up a 1000+ year old Buddhist shrine, they threaten and  kill schoolgirls for the crime of JUST  trying to get an education. They slaughtered thousands in a soccer field in Kabul for little or no reason.  They helped  Osama bin Laden and his crew. Remind me again, why  I am supposed to be outraged at what these Marines did?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Marines broke the rules under both the UCMJ and the Geneva Conventions, as well as have caused an international incident.
> 
> Unless..........of course............you think it's okay for our military to be undisciplined?
> 
> I don't, and didn't tolerate it for 20 years in the U.S. Navy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you chose what regulations to follow and which not to follow? Figures.........
Click to expand...


Actually, if someone states that they are gay, but don't display any homosexual behavior around you, all you have is heresay, and to report a good worker on heresay is not my thing.  Besides.........many people have claimed to be gay just to get out of the military.  Matter of fact, had an ET3 who had just completed the Navy Advanced Electronics Field, and had just signed his extension for 2 years on top of the 2 remaining on his enlistment.  When he checked onboard, he stated quite clearly to me and the shop supervisor that he was gay and he was processed out.  Saw the same guy about a year later, and he was in a convertible with 2 girls.  Asked him what he was doing now, and he said that he was earning 50,000/yr at a local company that did DOD work, and planning to get married to a woman.  I asked him about being gay, and he stated he did that just to get out of the military, so no..........reporting someone just on heresay isn't what I'd do.

However.............if they did actually get caught and were screened, I had no problem working up their discharge.


----------



## SFC Ollie

I see the idiot brigade has arrived.........


----------



## SFC Ollie

ABikerSailor said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Marines broke the rules under both the UCMJ and the Geneva Conventions, as well as have caused an international incident.
> 
> Unless..........of course............you think it's okay for our military to be undisciplined?
> 
> I don't, and didn't tolerate it for 20 years in the U.S. Navy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you chose what regulations to follow and which not to follow? Figures.........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, if someone states that they are gay, but don't display any homosexual behavior around you, all you have is heresay, and to report a good worker on heresay is not my thing.  Besides.........many people have claimed to be gay just to get out of the military.  Matter of fact, had an ET3 who had just completed the Navy Advanced Electronics Field, and had just signed his extension for 2 years on top of the 2 remaining on his enlistment.  When he checked onboard, he stated quite clearly to me and the shop supervisor that he was gay and he was processed out.  Saw the same guy about a year later, and he was in a convertible with 2 girls.  Asked him what he was doing now, and he said that he was earning 50,000/yr at a local company that did DOD work, and planning to get married to a woman.  I asked him about being gay, and he stated he did that just to get out of the military, so no..........reporting someone just on heresay isn't what I'd do.
> 
> However.............if they did actually get caught and were screened, I had no problem working up their discharge.
Click to expand...


Any excuse is better than none.........


----------



## Salt Jones

ABikerSailor said:


> Sadly...........Salt Jones and eots, both of you may be more correct than you think.



I spent 8 of my 20 years in the Navy stationed in joint Navy/Marine or Marine/Navy squadrons or commands. I know of what I speak.


----------



## Salt Jones

SFC Ollie said:


> I see the idiot brigade has arrived.........



Weren't you already here, Tin Soldier?


----------



## MaryL

ABikerSailor said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Taliban blew up a 1000+ year old Buddhist shrine, they threaten and  kill schoolgirls for the crime of JUST  trying to get an education. They slaughtered thousands in a soccer field in Kabul for little or no reason.  They helped  Osama bin Laden and his crew. Remind me again, why  I am supposed to be outraged at what these Marines did?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Marines broke the rules under both the UCMJ and the Geneva Conventions, as well as have caused an international incident.
> 
> Unless..........of course............you think it's okay for our military to be undisciplined?
> 
> I don't, and didn't tolerate it for 20 years in the U.S. Navy.
Click to expand...


No, it isn't OK.  But given the circumstances they are under, I dont think what they did is of as much significance as it is being given here.  Were you ever under direct enemy fire?  How can you relate to these guys?


----------



## eots

MaryL said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Taliban blew up a 1000+ year old Buddhist shrine, they threaten and  kill schoolgirls for the crime of JUST  trying to get an education. They slaughtered thousands in a soccer field in Kabul for little or no reason.  They helped  Osama bin Laden and his crew. Remind me again, why  I am supposed to be outraged at what these Marines did?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Marines broke the rules under both the UCMJ and the Geneva Conventions, as well as have caused an international incident.
> 
> Unless..........of course............you think it's okay for our military to be undisciplined?
> 
> I don't, and didn't tolerate it for 20 years in the U.S. Navy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, it isn't OK.  But given the circumstances they are under, I dont think what they did is of as much significance as it is being given here.  Were you ever under direct enemy fire?  How can you relate to these guys?
Click to expand...


ultimately they will be judged by their own


----------



## MaryL

eots said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Marines broke the rules under both the UCMJ and the Geneva Conventions, as well as have caused an international incident.
> 
> Unless..........of course............you think it's okay for our military to be undisciplined?
> 
> I don't, and didn't tolerate it for 20 years in the U.S. Navy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it isn't OK.  But given the circumstances they are under, I dont think what they did is of as much significance as it is being given here.  Were you ever under direct enemy fire?  How can you relate to these guys?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ultimately they will be judged by their own
Click to expand...

 
Hmm. Ok. But meanwhile, back here in the court of popular opinion...I said it before, these guys KILL people, peeing on their enemies mortal remains is rather a trivial offense. Come on now! My father was in WWII,  if I saw a grainy B&W video of him and his platoon  crapping on some NAZIS after what they did to  jews and captured allied troops, I might be inclined to forgive them of their lack of discretion or discipline.  This is a piddly waste of time here.


----------



## eots

MaryL said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, it isn't OK.  But given the circumstances they are under, I don&#8217;t think what they did is of as much significance as it is being given here.  Were you ever under direct enemy fire?  How can you relate to these guys?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ultimately they will be judged by their own
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmm. Ok. But meanwhile, back here in the court of popular opinion...I said it before, these guys KILL people, peeing on their enemies mortal remains is rather a trivial offense. Come on now! My father was in WWII,  if I saw a grainy B&W video of him and his platoon  crapping on some NAZIS after what they did to  jews and captured allied troops, I might be inclined to forgive them of their lack of discretion or discipline.  This is a piddly waste of time here.
Click to expand...


then what ? cutting off ears, scalping ? playing with corpses placing them in sexual positions.. where does it end ?


----------



## Cowman

MaryL said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, it isn't OK.  But given the circumstances they are under, I don&#8217;t think what they did is of as much significance as it is being given here.  Were you ever under direct enemy fire?  How can you relate to these guys?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ultimately they will be judged by their own
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmm. Ok. But meanwhile, back here in the court of popular opinion...I said it before, these guys KILL people, peeing on their enemies mortal remains is rather a trivial offense. Come on now! My father was in WWII,  if I saw a grainy B&W video of him and his platoon  crapping on some NAZIS after what they did to  jews and captured allied troops, I might be inclined to forgive them of their lack of discretion or discipline.  This is a piddly waste of time here.
Click to expand...


Yeah no shit they kill people. They're in the military in a warzone. So you admit though, that urinating on corpses of enemy combatants is a lack of discipline. That's what it shows the world, and that's what the leadership sees. Though that's not all they see, because they are in a warzone and they see that such actions could vastly negatively impact operations within the theater both with locals and the Taliban themselves.

Desecration of corpses is something that is taboo in almost all cultures, even ours. That's not even where my problem lies though, it's with the utter lack of discipline and character.


----------



## SFC Ollie

Cowman said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> ultimately they will be judged by their own
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm. Ok. But meanwhile, back here in the court of popular opinion...I said it before, these guys KILL people, peeing on their enemies mortal remains is rather a trivial offense. Come on now! My father was in WWII,  if I saw a grainy B&W video of him and his platoon  crapping on some NAZIS after what they did to  jews and captured allied troops, I might be inclined to forgive them of their lack of discretion or discipline.  This is a piddly waste of time here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah no shit they kill people. They're in the military in a warzone. So you admit though, that urinating on corpses of enemy combatants is a lack of discipline. That's what it shows the world, and that's what the leadership sees. Though that's not all they see, because they are in a warzone and they see that such actions could vastly negatively impact operations within the theater both with locals and the Taliban themselves.
> 
> Desecration of corpses is something that is taboo in almost all cultures, even ours. That's not even where my problem lies though, it's with the utter lack of discipline and character.
Click to expand...


Truth is you know nothing of the discipline and character of these troops, the day after this video one of them may have earned a silver star or MOH.... Funny thing about real life combat, you simply never know.........


----------



## eots

SFC Ollie said:


> Cowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm. Ok. But meanwhile, back here in the court of popular opinion...I said it before, these guys KILL people, peeing on their enemies mortal remains is rather a trivial offense. Come on now! My father was in WWII,  if I saw a grainy B&W video of him and his platoon  crapping on some NAZIS after what they did to  jews and captured allied troops, I might be inclined to forgive them of their lack of discretion or discipline.  This is a piddly waste of time here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah no shit they kill people. They're in the military in a warzone. So you admit though, that urinating on corpses of enemy combatants is a lack of discipline. That's what it shows the world, and that's what the leadership sees. Though that's not all they see, because they are in a warzone and they see that such actions could vastly negatively impact operations within the theater both with locals and the Taliban themselves.
> 
> Desecration of corpses is something that is taboo in almost all cultures, even ours. That's not even where my problem lies though, it's with the utter lack of discipline and character.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Truth is you know nothing of the discipline and character of these troops, the day after this video one of them may have earned a silver star or MOH.... Funny thing about real life combat, you simply never know.........
Click to expand...


history shows a piece of tin is no guarantee of a mans true character


----------



## Dr Grump

It is disgusting what they did. What I find bothersome most of all though, is that they are urinating on dead people. Does anybody else find that just plain weird? Forget that they might or might not have been Taliban or insurgents. Pissing on dead people? Not exactly normal behaviour.

That aside, there are citizens in Afghanistan and Iraq who think US troops see them as animals. This goes a long way to reinforcing those thoughts...


----------



## ABikerSailor

MaryL said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Taliban blew up a 1000+ year old Buddhist shrine, they threaten and  kill schoolgirls for the crime of JUST  trying to get an education. They slaughtered thousands in a soccer field in Kabul for little or no reason.  They helped  Osama bin Laden and his crew. Remind me again, why  I am supposed to be outraged at what these Marines did?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Marines broke the rules under both the UCMJ and the Geneva Conventions, as well as have caused an international incident.
> 
> Unless..........of course............you think it's okay for our military to be undisciplined?
> 
> I don't, and didn't tolerate it for 20 years in the U.S. Navy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, it isn't OK.  But given the circumstances they are under, I dont think what they did is of as much significance as it is being given here.  Were you ever under direct enemy fire?  How can you relate to these guys?
Click to expand...


Yeah......I have been fired at by heavy artillery.  Beruit back in '83, '84 and '85 when my ship was there to UNREP all the troops that were there, 'bout a 14 hour evolution.  Was on VERTREP bridge phone talker watch when I heard a sound like a big zipper go down.  Then, there was the water column about 100 yards off the starboard bow.

We were underway in less than 5 minutes, but until we got anchor up and started moving, it was some of the longest minutes in my life.

Also spent time in a couple other war zones.  So what?

It still doesn't excuse what these guys did.  If we denigrate down to their level, we are no better than them.

And the military that I knew and still love, would NEVER stoop to their level.


----------



## Warrior102

ABikerSailor said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Marines broke the rules under both the UCMJ and the Geneva Conventions, as well as have caused an international incident.
> 
> Unless..........of course............you think it's okay for our military to be undisciplined?
> 
> I don't, and didn't tolerate it for 20 years in the U.S. Navy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it isn't OK.  But given the circumstances they are under, I dont think what they did is of as much significance as it is being given here.  Were you ever under direct enemy fire?  How can you relate to these guys?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah......I have been fired at by heavy artillery.  Beruit back in '83, '84 and '85 when my ship was there to UNREP all the troops that were there, 'bout a 14 hour evolution.  Was on VERTREP bridge phone talker watch when I heard a sound like a big zipper go down.  Then, there was the water column about 100 yards off the starboard bow.
> 
> We were underway in less than 5 minutes, but until we got anchor up and started moving, it was some of the longest minutes in my life.
> 
> Also spent time in a couple other war zones.  So what?
> 
> It still doesn't excuse what these guys did.  If we denigrate down to their level, we are no better than them.
> 
> And the military that I knew and still love, would NEVER stoop to their level.
Click to expand...


What "heavy artillery" fired on you in Beirut in 83?
I was on LKA 117 - sat there for seven months - May - Nov. 83, one mile off coast and all we got shot at were asshole farmers up in the mountains. 
Please do tell...


----------



## SFC Ollie

Bullshit, You assholes think this is something so terrible and want to believe that the US Military is so Lilly White and Honorable....

Bull SHit Bull Shit Bull Shit......

You would gag over some of the things our soldiers did in Nam. And probably in Iraq and Afghanistan.....

We are not innocent little choir boys....They couldn't handle the facts of war.............


----------



## Warrior102

Me smells a posing, lying sack of shit here....12 o'clock beyond me Ollie....


----------



## ABikerSailor

Warrior102 said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, it isn't OK.  But given the circumstances they are under, I don&#8217;t think what they did is of as much significance as it is being given here.  Were you ever under direct enemy fire?  How can you relate to these guys?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah......I have been fired at by heavy artillery.  Beruit back in '83, '84 and '85 when my ship was there to UNREP all the troops that were there, 'bout a 14 hour evolution.  Was on VERTREP bridge phone talker watch when I heard a sound like a big zipper go down.  Then, there was the water column about 100 yards off the starboard bow.
> 
> We were underway in less than 5 minutes, but until we got anchor up and started moving, it was some of the longest minutes in my life.
> 
> Also spent time in a couple other war zones.  So what?
> 
> It still doesn't excuse what these guys did.  If we denigrate down to their level, we are no better than them.
> 
> And the military that I knew and still love, would NEVER stoop to their level.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What "heavy artillery" fired on you in Beirut in 83?
> I was on LKA 117 - sat there for seven months - May - Nov. 83, one mile off coast and all we got shot at were asshole farmers up in the mountains.
> Please do tell...
Click to expand...


Dunno exactly what the shell was, just know that the entire bridge filled with officers, the QM's were reporting that we'd been fired at by artillery.

Besides.........we were anchored about a half to a mile off shore, I don't think a gun is gonna get that far.

FWIW.........the ship I was deployed on was the USS CONCORD (AFS-5).  Interestingly enough, we never anchored out after that, because they changed the rules and we had to make narrow rectangles up and down the coast.


----------



## Warrior102

ABikerSailor said:


> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah......I have been fired at by heavy artillery.  Beruit back in '83, '84 and '85 when my ship was there to UNREP all the troops that were there, 'bout a 14 hour evolution.  Was on VERTREP bridge phone talker watch when I heard a sound like a big zipper go down.  Then, there was the water column about 100 yards off the starboard bow.
> 
> We were underway in less than 5 minutes, but until we got anchor up and started moving, it was some of the longest minutes in my life.
> 
> Also spent time in a couple other war zones.  So what?
> 
> It still doesn't excuse what these guys did.  If we denigrate down to their level, we are no better than them.
> 
> And the military that I knew and still love, would NEVER stoop to their level.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "heavy artillery" fired on you in Beirut in 83?
> I was on LKA 117 - sat there for seven months - May - Nov. 83, one mile off coast and all we got shot at were asshole farmers up in the mountains.
> Please do tell...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dunno exactly what the shell was, just know that the entire bridge filled with officers, the QM's were reporting that we'd been fired at by artillery.
> 
> Besides.........we were anchored about a half to a mile off shore, I don't think a gun is gonna get that far.
> 
> FWIW.........the ship I was deployed on was the USS CONCORD (AFS-5).  Interestingly enough, we never anchored out after that, because they changed the rules and we had to make narrow rectangles up and down the coast.
Click to expand...


Artillery from who? I sat there for seven months, at anchor. You did not. We were sniped at nightly - from assholes up in the hills. It was so common and morale was so miserably low - we didn't give a flying fuck. You're going to tell us some "war story" about UNREPPING while being shot at by artillery? Christ son, you're a posing fucking liar. Seriously. Those fuckers never shot anything larger than a handgun at us. Those disfunctional Arab fucks couldn't coodinate a good shit, nevermind a military operation.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Warrior102 said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What "heavy artillery" fired on you in Beirut in 83?
> I was on LKA 117 - sat there for seven months - May - Nov. 83, one mile off coast and all we got shot at were asshole farmers up in the mountains.
> Please do tell...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dunno exactly what the shell was, just know that the entire bridge filled with officers, the QM's were reporting that we'd been fired at by artillery.
> 
> Besides.........we were anchored about a half to a mile off shore, I don't think a gun is gonna get that far.
> 
> FWIW.........the ship I was deployed on was the USS CONCORD (AFS-5).  Interestingly enough, we never anchored out after that, because they changed the rules and we had to make narrow rectangles up and down the coast.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Artillery from who? I sat there for seven months, at anchor. You did not. We were sniped at nightly - from assholes up in the hills. It was so common and morale was so miserably low - we didn't give a flying fuck. You're going to tell us some "war story" about UNREPPING while being shot at by artillery? Christ son, you're a posing fucking liar. Seriously. Those fuckers never shot anything larger than a handgun at us. Those disfunctional Arab fucks couldn't coodinate a good shit, nevermind a military operation.
Click to expand...


Like I said.......we used to anchor off the coast, but after that incident we didn't.  BTW, did you go back to Beruit after your 7 months there?  I did, because that's how I know we (as well as the others) had to steam up and down the coast.


----------



## eots

You know it ain't easy
You know it ain't fair
So don't try to please me
Because I really don't care

Don't tell me stories 'cause yesterday's glories
Have gone away, so far away
I've heard it said there's a light up ahead
Lord I hope and pray I'm here to stay...

OZZY OSBOURNE - I DON'T WANT TO CHANGE THE WORLD LYRICS


----------



## Warrior102

You know you're full of shit. 
I know you're full of shit. 
Leave it at that. 
Try peddling your shit somewhere else. 
Been there, done that my friend. 
Nite nite.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Warrior102 said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What "heavy artillery" fired on you in Beirut in 83?
> I was on LKA 117 - sat there for seven months - May - Nov. 83, one mile off coast and all we got shot at were asshole farmers up in the mountains.
> Please do tell...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dunno exactly what the shell was, just know that the entire bridge filled with officers, the QM's were reporting that we'd been fired at by artillery.
> 
> Besides.........we were anchored about a half to a mile off shore, I don't think a gun is gonna get that far.
> 
> FWIW.........the ship I was deployed on was the USS CONCORD (AFS-5).  Interestingly enough, we never anchored out after that, because they changed the rules and we had to make narrow rectangles up and down the coast.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Artillery from who? I sat there for seven months, at anchor. You did not. We were sniped at nightly - from assholes up in the hills. It was so common and morale was so miserably low - we didn't give a flying fuck. You're going to tell us some "war story" about UNREPPING while being shot at by artillery? Christ son, you're a posing fucking liar. Seriously. Those fuckers never shot anything larger than a handgun at us. Those disfunctional Arab fucks couldn't coodinate a good shit, nevermind a military operation.
Click to expand...


Like I've asked before..........did YOU go back on the next cruise?  I made 3 of them over there, and we did UNREP there once a month.  What ship was your UNREP coming from, the Saturn?  Because if it was, you and I were on the opposite sides of the cruise deployment.


----------



## Dr Grump

SFC Ollie said:


> Bullshit, You assholes think this is something so terrible and want to believe that the US Military is so Lilly White and Honorable....
> 
> Bull SHit Bull Shit Bull Shit......
> 
> You would gag over some of the things our soldiers did in Nam. And probably in Iraq and Afghanistan.....
> 
> We are not innocent little choir boys....They couldn't handle the facts of war.............



Nobody expects the US military to be lillywhite and honorable. We do expect you to take action against those who are not fit to wear the uniform. What they did reflects on all marines.


----------



## eots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTYEOAX3sjM]Village People - In the Navy - Live les années bonheur - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Dr Grump

An interesting perspective. Some have you might have already read it in the Post.

All war has desecration


----------



## eots

I wonder if people would feel differently if they knew they where gay snipers pissing on corpses ??....shhhh...dont ask dont tell


----------



## Warrior102

ABikerSailor said:


> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dunno exactly what the shell was, just know that the entire bridge filled with officers, the QM's were reporting that we'd been fired at by artillery.
> 
> Besides.........we were anchored about a half to a mile off shore, I don't think a gun is gonna get that far.
> 
> FWIW.........the ship I was deployed on was the USS CONCORD (AFS-5).  Interestingly enough, we never anchored out after that, because they changed the rules and we had to make narrow rectangles up and down the coast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Artillery from who? I sat there for seven months, at anchor. You did not. We were sniped at nightly - from assholes up in the hills. It was so common and morale was so miserably low - we didn't give a flying fuck. You're going to tell us some "war story" about UNREPPING while being shot at by artillery? Christ son, you're a posing fucking liar. Seriously. Those fuckers never shot anything larger than a handgun at us. Those disfunctional Arab fucks couldn't coodinate a good shit, nevermind a military operation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like I've asked before..........did YOU go back on the next cruise?  I made 3 of them over there, and we did UNREP there once a month.  What ship was your UNREP coming from, the Saturn?  Because if it was, you and I were on the opposite sides of the cruise deployment.
Click to expand...



Got off the LKA in April 84, after a North Atlantic and REFTRA in GTMO. Cross-decked to Nimitz - CODded on 60 miles off the coast of Lebanon, again. 


Check the ship's history, poser. It matches up. 

The only time I saw your ass on a USNS was when your ass was comfortably way the fuck off shore. 

Trypeddling your heroics to some dumbfuck who's never served. You're about as "combative" as a tampon.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Dr Grump said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit, You assholes think this is something so terrible and want to believe that the US Military is so Lilly White and Honorable....
> 
> Bull SHit Bull Shit Bull Shit......
> 
> You would gag over some of the things our soldiers did in Nam. And probably in Iraq and Afghanistan.....
> 
> We are not innocent little choir boys....They couldn't handle the facts of war.............
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody expects the US military to be lillywhite and honorable. We do expect you to take action against those who are not fit to wear the uniform. What they did reflects on all marines.
Click to expand...


You nailed it perfectly Dr. Grump.

I'm just wondering why others keep making excuses for these people.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Warrior102 said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Artillery from who? I sat there for seven months, at anchor. You did not. We were sniped at nightly - from assholes up in the hills. It was so common and morale was so miserably low - we didn't give a flying fuck. You're going to tell us some "war story" about UNREPPING while being shot at by artillery? Christ son, you're a posing fucking liar. Seriously. Those fuckers never shot anything larger than a handgun at us. Those disfunctional Arab fucks couldn't coodinate a good shit, nevermind a military operation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I've asked before..........did YOU go back on the next cruise?  I made 3 of them over there, and we did UNREP there once a month.  What ship was your UNREP coming from, the Saturn?  Because if it was, you and I were on the opposite sides of the cruise deployment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Got off the LKA in April 84, after a North Atlantic and REFTRA in GTMO. Cross-decked to Nimitz - CODded on 60 miles off the coast of Lebanon, again.
> 
> 
> Check the ship's history, poser. It matches up.
> 
> The only time I saw your ass on a USNS was when your ass was comfortably way the fuck off shore.
> 
> Trypeddling your heroics to some dumbfuck who's never served. You're about as "combative" as a tampon.
Click to expand...


Actually, the CONCORD didn't convert to USNS until around 91 or 92, and by that time I was stationed with VFA-131 in Jacksonville.

Wanna try again?


----------



## Dr Grump

Warrior102 said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Artillery from who? I sat there for seven months, at anchor. You did not. We were sniped at nightly - from assholes up in the hills. It was so common and morale was so miserably low - we didn't give a flying fuck. You're going to tell us some "war story" about UNREPPING while being shot at by artillery? Christ son, you're a posing fucking liar. Seriously. Those fuckers never shot anything larger than a handgun at us. Those disfunctional Arab fucks couldn't coodinate a good shit, nevermind a military operation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I've asked before..........did YOU go back on the next cruise?  I made 3 of them over there, and we did UNREP there once a month.  What ship was your UNREP coming from, the Saturn?  Because if it was, you and I were on the opposite sides of the cruise deployment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Got off the LKA in April 84, after a North Atlantic and REFTRA in GTMO. Cross-decked to Nimitz - CODded on 60 miles off the coast of Lebanon, again.
> 
> 
> Check the ship's history, poser. It matches up.
> 
> The only time I saw your ass on a USNS was when your ass was comfortably way the fuck off shore.
> 
> Trypeddling your heroics to some dumbfuck who's never served. You're about as "combative" as a tampon.
Click to expand...


Great, another internet tough guy. Just what this board needs....


----------



## eots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0cNgQbSZLU]Autopsy - I Sodomize Your Corpse - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## bodecea

Warrior102 said:


> You know you're full of shit.
> I know you're full of shit.
> Leave it at that.
> Try peddling your shit somewhere else.
> Been there, done that my friend.
> Nite nite.



Degree in Scatology now?


----------



## The Gadfly

ABikerSailor said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Marines broke the rules under both the UCMJ and the Geneva Conventions, as well as have caused an international incident.
> 
> Unless..........of course............you think it's okay for our military to be undisciplined?
> 
> I don't, and didn't tolerate it for 20 years in the U.S. Navy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it isn't OK.  But given the circumstances they are under, I dont think what they did is of as much significance as it is being given here.  Were you ever under direct enemy fire?  How can you relate to these guys?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah......I have been fired at by heavy artillery.  Beruit back in '83, '84 and '85 when my ship was there to UNREP all the troops that were there, 'bout a 14 hour evolution.  Was on VERTREP bridge phone talker watch when I heard a sound like a big zipper go down.  Then, there was the water column about 100 yards off the starboard bow.
> 
> We were underway in less than 5 minutes, but until we got anchor up and started moving, it was some of the longest minutes in my life....
Click to expand...


Yeah, and when whatever Charlie was shooting on a given evening was landing a hundred meters outside the wire, we didn't even bother to wake everybody up; if we had, we'd have *never* gotten any sleep. Seriously, are you *really* comparing THAT to being in an infantry firefight? Geez Louise, you squids! I do hope none of you got wet from the splash (other than in your own drawers, that is); why, goodness me, you might have melted! Then again, I don't know, but I've been told, the Navy awards Purple Hearts for scratches.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

_"I'm just wondering why others keep making excuses for these people." 
___________________

And the rest of us continue to wonder why you are so intent to throw your "comrades in arms" under the bus because of an incident in which noone was harmed.


----------



## The Gadfly

9thIDdoc said:


> _"I'm just wondering why others keep making excuses for these people."
> ___________________
> 
> And the rest of us continue to wonder why you are so intent to throw your "comrades in arms" under the bus because of an incident in which noone was harmed.


----------



## eots

> Yeah, and when whatever Charlie was shooting on a given evening was landing a hundred meters outside the wire, we didn't even bother to wake everybody up; if we had, we'd have never gotten any sleep. Seriously, are you really comparing THAT to being in an infantry firefight? Geez Louise, you squids! I do hope none of you got wet from the splash (other than in your own drawers, that is); why, goodness me, you might have melted! Then again, I don't know, but I've been told, the Navy awards Purple Hearts for scratches.


----------



## paulitician

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZN565uhnGc]Dave Chappelle - Piss on You - YouTube[/ame]



Too soon for jokes on this?


----------



## The Gadfly

paulitician said:


> Dave Chappelle - Piss on You - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> Too soon for jokes on this?



Oh, why not? We already got the inter-service thing going. I hate to pick on the squids, I really do, it's just that *some* of them are so, well....sensitive.


----------

