# Debunking Rape Epidemic Claims



## Coyote

...with a little science over hype


*How Anti-Immigration Activists Misuse Rape Statistics*
_The Internet has brought an enormous mass of knowledge to the fingertips of everyone with a computer, smartphone or tablet. Never before have so many individuals been so close to true scientific facts about the world, from fun facts about animals to the latest crime statistics. Large communities with blogs, forums and social media groups have grown up around a wide variety of special interests and it has become a powerful tool for communication, cooperation and the advancement of human knowledge.
*

However, this has also led to the creation of ideologically isolated Internet communities, where faulty claims and misunderstandings of statistics and empirical evidence gets repeated in an endless echo chamber and all refutations are either ignored, misrepresented or subjected to ideologically driven rejection, often with stale references to supposed “political correctness”, as if that was a statistically mature rebuttal.*


This article will show that according to crime victim surveys, *the actual rate of sex crimes has been more or less unchanged in Sweden between 2005 and 2014, despite the fact that immigration has increased during the same time period. *Instead, the increasing rates of reported rapes are influenced by expansion of the legal rape definition, an increase in the tendency to report rapes, police efforts to classify each individual rape as a separate crime and their tendency to classify any sex crime that could potentially be rape as rape. It will also demonstrate that reported rates between countries such as Sweden and Denmark cannot be naively compared to do the large difference in legal rape definition and police registration methods._

_
....
*Conclusion*


The moral of the story is that you should not get your information about crime statistics from shady blogs who make trivial statistical errors (like confusing reported and actual crimes) or Youtube videos*. Instead, go to the original scientific papers or crime victim surveys, read them and understand the methodology, results, limitations and conclusions. *There are no shortcuts to substantial knowledge.


The increasing rates of reported rape in Sweden is primarily caused by a repeated expansion of the rape definition, the fact that police is consciously reported all rapes as individual reports and an observed increase in the tendency to report rape. The differences between rates of reported rape between e. g. Sweden and Denmark is caused by differences in rape definition, differences in registration methods and efforts to rape all sex crimes that might be rape as rape.


In the end, it is doubly ironic that anti-immigration activists say that they refuse to read mainstream media because of its bias, yet (1) are strongly influenced by the increase in sensationalist coverage of violent crime by mainstream media and (2) are so willing to believe claims made by “alternative” media that are unsupported and often contradicted by actual crime victim survey results._​
*Edited to correct link.*


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## Luddly Neddite

_*However, this has also led to the creation of ideologically isolated Internet communities, where faulty claims and misunderstandings of statistics and empirical evidence gets repeated in an endless echo chamber and all refutations are either ignored, misrepresented or subjected to ideologically driven rejection, often with stale references to supposed “political correctness”, as if that was a statistically mature rebuttal.*_

Needless to say, its not just illegal immigrants who are victimized by wild and crazy lies. 

Remember when we thought the Internet would be the beginning of a true age of knowledge? All that information, right at our fingertips. What could possibly go wrong? 

I haven't seen figures but my bet is that facts constitute less than 1% of what we see on line. The rest is opinion, driven by various agendas.


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## TemplarKormac

Ahh, so we link to an image that says  "Only Jesus can build a bridge to heaven using only two pieces of wood."

But forget the other side of that deal. Not everyone gets into heaven, not everyone is allowed into heaven, not even on that bridge Jesus built with two pieces of wood. Hence the words Jesus spoke in Matthew 7:23.

Meaning, that just like immigration laws which set the standard for those who want to get into our country, there are also standards set by God for those who wish to enter into the kingdom of heaven.


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## Coyote

Imperius said:


> Ahh, so we link to an image that says  "Only Jesus can build a bridge to heaven using only two pieces of wood."
> 
> But forget the other side of that deal. Not everyone gets into heaven, not everyone is allowed into heaven, not even on that bridge Jesus built with two pieces. Hence the words Jesus spoke in Matthew 7:23.
> 
> Meaning, that just like immigration laws which set the standard for those who want to get into our country, there are also standards set by God for those who wish to enter into the kingdom of heaven.



I think you're stretching it a wee bit to compare immigration laws to Jesus....he didn't turn away the poor, needy, those seeking help.  He didn't build walls to keep them out of Heaven.



.....I'm thinking this may belong in another thread....


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## Luddly Neddite

Coyote said:


> Imperius said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh, so we link to an image that says  "Only Jesus can build a bridge to heaven using only two pieces of wood."
> 
> But forget the other side of that deal. Not everyone gets into heaven, not everyone is allowed into heaven, not even on that bridge Jesus built with two pieces. Hence the words Jesus spoke in Matthew 7:23.
> 
> Meaning, that just like immigration laws which set the standard for those who want to get into our country, there are also standards set by God for those who wish to enter into the kingdom of heaven.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you're stretching it a wee bit to compare immigration laws to Jesus....he didn't turn away the poor, needy, those seeking help.  He didn't build walls to keep them out of Heaven.
> 
> 
> 
> .....I'm thinking this may belong in another thread....
Click to expand...



The Jesus I learned about did the opposite of we're seeing now. And he told his followers to help those less fortunate. And I really doubt he ever demanded to see anyone's proof of citizenship.


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## TemplarKormac

Coyote said:


> I think you're stretching it a wee bit to compare immigration laws to Jesus....he didn't turn away the poor, needy, those seeking help. He didn't build walls to keep them out of Heaven.



No I'm not. And yes he did. Both are rules and stipulations regarding entry into their respective domains. Now here's a question, how many poor and needy people died without knowing Christ? Whatever number you come up with might be the number who weren't granted the blessing of heaven.

Oh by the way, God did build a wall around heaven, as described by John in Revelation 21:10-27:

_10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.

11 It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal._

_*12 It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel.*
_
*13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west.

14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

15 The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls. 

16 The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia (or 1,400 miles) in length, and as wide and high as it is long (1,400 miles both ways).

17 The angel measured the wall using human measurement, and it was 144 cubits (200 feet) thick.

18 The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass.

19 The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald, 

20 the fifth onyx, the sixth ruby, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth turquoise, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst 

21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass.*

_22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.

24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it.

25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there.

26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it.
_
*27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.*

So you see, not only was there a wall built around heaven, God had angels guarding each of the gates. So yes, he did build a wall, and yes he even posted guards at the gates. So, are we to call John a liar? God set standards and commands which governed the entry process into heaven. Even if that meant denying any "poor or needy" person who did shameful or deceitful things, who didn't know God or follow him, or whose names weren't written in the Lamb's book of life from entering the kingdom of heaven.

Which brings us to our immigration laws. Same concept. We have a border (pffft, border, hah!) and laws which govern entry into the country. If you've come here illegally, you don't belong here (anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful). If you aren't a naturalized citizen, you don't belong here (similar to not having your name written in the Lamb's book of life). So, how are these things different? How would building a wall change that?

I hope I've dispensed with this rose colored notion of yours that Jesus or God are both all-compassionate entities who only make life easy for everyone. Or whom would neeeever, eeeever subject any of their creations to negative consequences. That's not Jesus, nor is that God. In fact your view of them could be seen as flawed. They are capable of great love, compassion and altruism, but they are also capable of great wrath and judgement. The Bible points that out. Even the masters and creators of our universe have their own rules.

To paraphrase Luddly here, the Jesus I learned about would never withhold judgement or punishment from those who rightly deserved it. Nor would he withhold blessings from those who asked for and earned them. The whole idea here in context of immigration (or the illegality thereof), is that you can't just steal your way into heaven, no more than you can steal your citizenship from a country you don't belong to. You have to earn your way into both.


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## TemplarKormac

Playing the Jesus card took away from the main point of your thread. Which,  I might add, didn't link to any meaningful statistics about rapes in Sweden in correlation to the amount of Muslim immigrants entering the country.


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## Gracie

Probably a dumb question:

Why would God need a wall around heaven?????


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## RodISHI

Gracie said:


> Probably a dumb question:
> 
> Why would God need a wall around heaven?????


It insures satan and the angels that follow satan cannot enter in to places that their are barred out of. The kingdom of heaven is within you. Luke 17


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## TemplarKormac

Gracie said:


> Probably a dumb question:
> 
> Why would God need a wall around heaven?????


You'd have to ask him. Or perhaps read Revelation 21:27.


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## TemplarKormac

Luddly Neddite said:


> And I really doubt he ever demanded to see anyone's proof of citizenship.


Actually, to get into heaven, you need proof of faith.


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## TemplarKormac

Coyote said:


> the actual rate of sex crimes has been more or less unchanged in Sweden between 2005 and 2014, despite the fact that immigration has increased during the same time period.



True, but while the rate of sex crimes hasn't changed despite the rise in immigration, the rise in Muslim immigrants may effect who carries out those sex crimes. The rate doesn't have to change, but the demographics of the people who commit those sex crimes can.


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## TheOldSchool

Imperius said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you're stretching it a wee bit to compare immigration laws to Jesus....he didn't turn away the poor, needy, those seeking help. He didn't build walls to keep them out of Heaven.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I'm not. And yes he did. Both are rules and stipulations regarding entry. So, how many poor and needy people died without knowing God? Whatever number you come up with might be the number who weren't granted the blessing of heaven.
> 
> Oh by the way, God did build a wall around heaven, as described by John in Revelation 21:10-27:
> 
> _10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.
> 
> 11 It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal._
> 
> _*12 It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel.*
> _
> *13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west.
> 
> 14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
> 
> 15 The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls.
> 
> 16 The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia (or 1,400 miles) in length, and as wide and high as it is long (1,400 miles both ways).
> 
> 17 The angel measured the wall using human measurement, and it was 144 cubits (200 feet) thick.
> 
> 18 The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass.
> 
> 19 The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald,
> 
> 20 the fifth onyx, the sixth ruby, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth turquoise, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst
> 
> 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass.*
> 
> _22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
> 
> 23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.
> 
> 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it.
> 
> 25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there.
> 
> 26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it.
> _
> *27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.*
> 
> So you see, not only was there a wall built around heaven, God had angels guarding each of the gates. So yes, he did build a wall, and yes he even posted guards at the gates. So, are we to call John a liar? God set standards and commands which governed the entry process into heaven. Even if that meant denying any "poor or needy" person who did shameful or deceitful things, or whose names weren't written in the Lamb's book of life from entering heaven.
> 
> Which brings us to our immigration laws. Same concept. We have a border (pffft, border, hah!) and laws which govern entry into the country. If you've come here illegally, you don't belong here (anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful). If you aren't a naturalized citizen, you don't belong here (similar to not having your name written in the Lamb's book of life). So how are these things different?
Click to expand...

God needs a fucking wall?  

Omnipotent my ass!


----------



## TemplarKormac

TheOldSchool said:


> Imperius said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you're stretching it a wee bit to compare immigration laws to Jesus....he didn't turn away the poor, needy, those seeking help. He didn't build walls to keep them out of Heaven.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I'm not. And yes he did. Both are rules and stipulations regarding entry. So, how many poor and needy people died without knowing God? Whatever number you come up with might be the number who weren't granted the blessing of heaven.
> 
> Oh by the way, God did build a wall around heaven, as described by John in Revelation 21:10-27:
> 
> _10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.
> 
> 11 It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal._
> 
> _*12 It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel.*
> _
> *13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west.
> 
> 14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
> 
> 15 The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls.
> 
> 16 The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia (or 1,400 miles) in length, and as wide and high as it is long (1,400 miles both ways).
> 
> 17 The angel measured the wall using human measurement, and it was 144 cubits (200 feet) thick.
> 
> 18 The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass.
> 
> 19 The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald,
> 
> 20 the fifth onyx, the sixth ruby, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth turquoise, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst
> 
> 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass.*
> 
> _22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
> 
> 23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.
> 
> 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it.
> 
> 25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there.
> 
> 26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it.
> _
> *27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.*
> 
> So you see, not only was there a wall built around heaven, God had angels guarding each of the gates. So yes, he did build a wall, and yes he even posted guards at the gates. So, are we to call John a liar? God set standards and commands which governed the entry process into heaven. Even if that meant denying any "poor or needy" person who did shameful or deceitful things, or whose names weren't written in the Lamb's book of life from entering heaven.
> 
> Which brings us to our immigration laws. Same concept. We have a border (pffft, border, hah!) and laws which govern entry into the country. If you've come here illegally, you don't belong here (anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful). If you aren't a naturalized citizen, you don't belong here (similar to not having your name written in the Lamb's book of life). So how are these things different?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> God needs a fucking wall?
> 
> Omnipotent my ass!
Click to expand...


Lool, leave it to you to blow this out of context.

However, that little revelation I posted caused the OP's argument to completely collapse in on itself. As well as any rose colored perception of God and Christ that she and Luddly might of had.


----------



## TheOldSchool

Imperius said:


> TheOldSchool said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imperius said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you're stretching it a wee bit to compare immigration laws to Jesus....he didn't turn away the poor, needy, those seeking help. He didn't build walls to keep them out of Heaven.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I'm not. And yes he did. Both are rules and stipulations regarding entry. So, how many poor and needy people died without knowing God? Whatever number you come up with might be the number who weren't granted the blessing of heaven.
> 
> Oh by the way, God did build a wall around heaven, as described by John in Revelation 21:10-27:
> 
> _10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.
> 
> 11 It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal._
> 
> _*12 It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel.*
> _
> *13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west.
> 
> 14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
> 
> 15 The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls.
> 
> 16 The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia (or 1,400 miles) in length, and as wide and high as it is long (1,400 miles both ways).
> 
> 17 The angel measured the wall using human measurement, and it was 144 cubits (200 feet) thick.
> 
> 18 The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass.
> 
> 19 The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald,
> 
> 20 the fifth onyx, the sixth ruby, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth turquoise, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst
> 
> 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass.*
> 
> _22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
> 
> 23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.
> 
> 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it.
> 
> 25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there.
> 
> 26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it.
> _
> *27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.*
> 
> So you see, not only was there a wall built around heaven, God had angels guarding each of the gates. So yes, he did build a wall, and yes he even posted guards at the gates. So, are we to call John a liar? God set standards and commands which governed the entry process into heaven. Even if that meant denying any "poor or needy" person who did shameful or deceitful things, or whose names weren't written in the Lamb's book of life from entering heaven.
> 
> Which brings us to our immigration laws. Same concept. We have a border (pffft, border, hah!) and laws which govern entry into the country. If you've come here illegally, you don't belong here (anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful). If you aren't a naturalized citizen, you don't belong here (similar to not having your name written in the Lamb's book of life). So how are these things different?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> God needs a fucking wall?
> 
> Omnipotent my ass!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lool, leave it to you to blow this out of context.
Click to expand...

God damn right


----------



## TemplarKormac

TheOldSchool said:


> Imperius said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheOldSchool said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imperius said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you're stretching it a wee bit to compare immigration laws to Jesus....he didn't turn away the poor, needy, those seeking help. He didn't build walls to keep them out of Heaven.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I'm not. And yes he did. Both are rules and stipulations regarding entry. So, how many poor and needy people died without knowing God? Whatever number you come up with might be the number who weren't granted the blessing of heaven.
> 
> Oh by the way, God did build a wall around heaven, as described by John in Revelation 21:10-27:
> 
> _10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.
> 
> 11 It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal._
> 
> _*12 It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel.*
> _
> *13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west.
> 
> 14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
> 
> 15 The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls.
> 
> 16 The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia (or 1,400 miles) in length, and as wide and high as it is long (1,400 miles both ways).
> 
> 17 The angel measured the wall using human measurement, and it was 144 cubits (200 feet) thick.
> 
> 18 The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass.
> 
> 19 The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald,
> 
> 20 the fifth onyx, the sixth ruby, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth turquoise, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst
> 
> 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass.*
> 
> _22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
> 
> 23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.
> 
> 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it.
> 
> 25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there.
> 
> 26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it.
> _
> *27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.*
> 
> So you see, not only was there a wall built around heaven, God had angels guarding each of the gates. So yes, he did build a wall, and yes he even posted guards at the gates. So, are we to call John a liar? God set standards and commands which governed the entry process into heaven. Even if that meant denying any "poor or needy" person who did shameful or deceitful things, or whose names weren't written in the Lamb's book of life from entering heaven.
> 
> Which brings us to our immigration laws. Same concept. We have a border (pffft, border, hah!) and laws which govern entry into the country. If you've come here illegally, you don't belong here (anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful). If you aren't a naturalized citizen, you don't belong here (similar to not having your name written in the Lamb's book of life). So how are these things different?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> God needs a fucking wall?
> 
> Omnipotent my ass!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lool, leave it to you to blow this out of context.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> God damn right
Click to expand...


----------



## Coyote

Imperius said:


> Playing the Jesus card took away from the main point of your thread. Which,  I might add, didn't link to any meaningful statistics about rapes in Sweden in correlation to the amount of Muslim immigrants entering the country.



You're in the wrong thread with this - I posted that in another thread.  I didn't bring Jesus bridge meme into this thread, you did.  I think you meant your reply for that other thread?


----------



## Coyote

Imperius said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> the actual rate of sex crimes has been more or less unchanged in Sweden between 2005 and 2014, despite the fact that immigration has increased during the same time period.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True, but while the rate of sex crimes hasn't changed despite the rise in immigration, the rise in Muslim immigrants may effect who carries out those sex crimes. The rate doesn't have to change, but the demographics of the people who commit those sex crimes can.
Click to expand...


So, are you saying that imported rapists are pushing out native rapists?


----------



## Coyote

Imperius said:


> TheOldSchool said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imperius said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you're stretching it a wee bit to compare immigration laws to Jesus....he didn't turn away the poor, needy, those seeking help. He didn't build walls to keep them out of Heaven.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I'm not. And yes he did. Both are rules and stipulations regarding entry. So, how many poor and needy people died without knowing God? Whatever number you come up with might be the number who weren't granted the blessing of heaven.
> 
> Oh by the way, God did build a wall around heaven, as described by John in Revelation 21:10-27:
> 
> _10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.
> 
> 11 It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal._
> 
> _*12 It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel.*
> _
> *13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west.
> 
> 14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
> 
> 15 The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls.
> 
> 16 The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia (or 1,400 miles) in length, and as wide and high as it is long (1,400 miles both ways).
> 
> 17 The angel measured the wall using human measurement, and it was 144 cubits (200 feet) thick.
> 
> 18 The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass.
> 
> 19 The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald,
> 
> 20 the fifth onyx, the sixth ruby, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth turquoise, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst
> 
> 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass.*
> 
> _22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
> 
> 23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.
> 
> 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it.
> 
> 25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there.
> 
> 26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it.
> _
> *27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.*
> 
> So you see, not only was there a wall built around heaven, God had angels guarding each of the gates. So yes, he did build a wall, and yes he even posted guards at the gates. So, are we to call John a liar? God set standards and commands which governed the entry process into heaven. Even if that meant denying any "poor or needy" person who did shameful or deceitful things, or whose names weren't written in the Lamb's book of life from entering heaven.
> 
> Which brings us to our immigration laws. Same concept. We have a border (pffft, border, hah!) and laws which govern entry into the country. If you've come here illegally, you don't belong here (anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful). If you aren't a naturalized citizen, you don't belong here (similar to not having your name written in the Lamb's book of life). So how are these things different?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> God needs a fucking wall?
> 
> Omnipotent my ass!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lool, leave it to you to blow this out of context.
> 
> However, that little revelation I posted caused the OP's argument to completely collapse in on itself. As well as any rose colored perception of God and Christ that she and Luddly might of had.
Click to expand...


You're "revelation" doesn't appear to have anything to do with the OP.....


----------



## TemplarKormac

Coyote said:


> Imperius said:
> 
> 
> 
> Playing the Jesus card took away from the main point of your thread. Which,  I might add, didn't link to any meaningful statistics about rapes in Sweden in correlation to the amount of Muslim immigrants entering the country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're in the wrong thread with this - I posted that in another thread.  I didn't bring Jesus bridge meme into this thread, you did.  I think you meant your reply for that other thread?
Click to expand...


No I'm not. That link at the top of your thread linked to an image, not a to any article pertaining to how anti-immigrant activists misuse rape statistics. I don't think you realize the mistake you made. Since this board has a function which copy pastes not only words but those with embedded links within them, I copy and pasted this. In my browser, it opened a new tab showing the picture below. It didn't link to any article, just an image:

(Title)* How Anti-Immigration Activists Misuse Rape Statistics* =>

(Embedded link) https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/6f/5e/cc/6f5ecc76e208b3a1ae445ecb06d512b7.jpg

(Result when hotlink is clicked)


----------



## TemplarKormac

Coyote said:


> Imperius said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> the actual rate of sex crimes has been more or less unchanged in Sweden between 2005 and 2014, despite the fact that immigration has increased during the same time period.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True, but while the rate of sex crimes hasn't changed despite the rise in immigration, the rise in Muslim immigrants may effect who carries out those sex crimes. The rate doesn't have to change, but the demographics of the people who commit those sex crimes can.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, are you saying that imported rapists are pushing out native rapists?
Click to expand...


Something like that, yes.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Coyote said:


> I think you're stretching it a wee bit to compare immigration laws to Jesus....he didn't turn away the poor, needy, those seeking help.  He didn't build walls to keep them out of Heaven.
> 
> 
> 
> .....I'm thinking this may belong in another thread....



Actually, Christian doctrine holds that all of your ISIS buddies and Muslims allies will go to hell as non-believers.

Try again.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Coyote said:


> You're "revelation" doesn't appear to have anything to do with the OP.....



The OP was just your typical apologetics for Islamic savagery.


----------



## Meathead

Coyote said:


> ...with a little science over hype
> 
> 
> *How Anti-Immigration Activists Misuse Rape Statistics*
> _The Internet has brought an enormous mass of knowledge to the fingertips of everyone with a computer, smartphone or tablet. Never before have so many individuals been so close to true scientific facts about the world, from fun facts about animals to the latest crime statistics. Large communities with blogs, forums and social media groups have grown up around a wide variety of special interests and it has become a powerful tool for communication, cooperation and the advancement of human knowledge.
> *
> 
> However, this has also led to the creation of ideologically isolated Internet communities, where faulty claims and misunderstandings of statistics and empirical evidence gets repeated in an endless echo chamber and all refutations are either ignored, misrepresented or subjected to ideologically driven rejection, often with stale references to supposed “political correctness”, as if that was a statistically mature rebuttal.*
> 
> 
> This article will show that according to crime victim surveys, *the actual rate of sex crimes has been more or less unchanged in Sweden between 2005 and 2014, despite the fact that immigration has increased during the same time period. *Instead, the increasing rates of reported rapes are influenced by expansion of the legal rape definition, an increase in the tendency to report rapes, police efforts to classify each individual rape as a separate crime and their tendency to classify any sex crime that could potentially be rape as rape. It will also demonstrate that reported rates between countries such as Sweden and Denmark cannot be naively compared to do the large difference in legal rape definition and police registration methods._
> 
> _
> ....
> *Conclusion*
> 
> 
> The moral of the story is that you should not get your information about crime statistics from shady blogs who make trivial statistical errors (like confusing reported and actual crimes) or Youtube videos*. Instead, go to the original scientific papers or crime victim surveys, read them and understand the methodology, results, limitations and conclusions. *There are no shortcuts to substantial knowledge.
> 
> 
> The increasing rates of reported rape in Sweden is primarily caused by a repeated expansion of the rape definition, the fact that police is consciously reported all rapes as individual reports and an observed increase in the tendency to report rape. The differences between rates of reported rape between e. g. Sweden and Denmark is caused by differences in rape definition, differences in registration methods and efforts to rape all sex crimes that might be rape as rape.
> 
> 
> In the end, it is doubly ironic that anti-immigration activists say that they refuse to read mainstream media because of its bias, yet (1) are strongly influenced by the increase in sensationalist coverage of violent crime by mainstream media and (2) are so willing to believe claims made by “alternative” media that are unsupported and often contradicted by actual crime victim survey results._​


Here's a report from the alternative newspaper called the New York Times to consider:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/06/w...of-rape-and-groping-at-2-music-festivals.html


----------



## Coyote

Sweden’s rape crisis isn’t what it seems

_...Behind it you’ll find the resurrection of an old, deadly appeal to fear – that people of certain skin colours are natural-born predators who threaten white women. It’s a version of lynch-mob logic that happens to appeal to the liberal and tolerant as much as the hateful and intolerant.

And it falls apart as soon as you speak to anyone knowledgeable in Sweden.

*“What we’re hearing is a very, very extreme exaggeration based on a few isolated events, and the claim that it’s related to immigration is more or less not true at all,” says Jerzy Sarnecki, a criminologist at Stockholm University who has devoted his career to the study of criminality, ethnicity and age.*

Sweden does indeed have fa*r more reported cases of sexual assault than any other country. *But it’s not because Swedes – of any colour – are very criminal. It’s because they’re very feminist. In 2005, Sweden’s Social Democratic government introduced a new sex-crime law with the world’s most expansive definition of rape.

Imagine, for example, if your boss rubbed against you in an unwanted way at work once a week for a year. In Canada, this would potentially be a case of sexual assault. Under Germany’s more limited laws, it would be zero cases. *In Sweden, it would be tallied as 52 separate cases of rape. If you engaged in a half-dozen sex acts with your spouse, then later you felt you had not given consent, in Sweden that would be classified as six cases of rape.*

The marked increase in rape cases during the 2000s is almost entirely a reflection of Sweden’s deep public interest in sexual equality and the rights of women, not of attacks by newcomers.

But aren’t refugees and immigrants responsible for a greater share of Sweden’s sexual assaults?

In a sense. Statistics show that the foreign-born in Sweden, as in most European countries, do have a higher rate of criminal charges than the native-born, in everything from shoplifting to murder (though not enough to affect the crime rate by more than a tiny margin). The opposite is true in North America, where immigrants have lower-than-average crime rates.

Why the difference? Because people who go to Sweden are poorer, and crime rates are mostly a product not of ethnicity but of class. In a 2013 analysis of 63,000 Swedish residents, Prof. Sarnecki and his colleagues found that 75 per cent of the difference in foreign-born crime is accounted for by income and neighbourhood, both indicators of poverty. Among the Swedish-born children of immigrants, the crime rate falls in half (and is almost entirely concentrated in lesser property crimes) and is 100-per-cent attributable to class – they are no more likely to commit crimes, including rape, than ethnic Swedes of the same family income.

What also stands out is that almost all the victims of these crimes – especially sex crimes – are also foreign-born. But for a handful of headline-grabbing atrocities, it isn’t a case of swarthy men preying on white women, but of Sweden’s system turning refugees into victims of crime.

That is the real Swedish crisis. Refugee shelters are terrible, dangerous places, whoever is in them. When such shelters, then known as displaced persons camps, held millions of Europeans in the 1940s and 1950s, histories show they were at risk of sexual predation and organized attacks against Jewish refugees.

Because otherwise generous Sweden doesn’t allow refugees to seek work until they know the language, tens of thousands of people are stuck in these awful places, in similar conditions, or in welfare-dependent netherworlds.

There they become victims of violent crime, victims of economic exclusion and victims of a grotesque, viral story that portrays them as predators, entirely because of their skin colour._​


----------



## TemplarKormac

Coyote said:


> ...with a little science over hype
> 
> 
> *How Anti-Immigration Activists Misuse Rape Statistics*
> _The Internet has brought an enormous mass of knowledge to the fingertips of everyone with a computer, smartphone or tablet. Never before have so many individuals been so close to true scientific facts about the world, from fun facts about animals to the latest crime statistics. Large communities with blogs, forums and social media groups have grown up around a wide variety of special interests and it has become a powerful tool for communication, cooperation and the advancement of human knowledge.
> *
> 
> However, this has also led to the creation of ideologically isolated Internet communities, where faulty claims and misunderstandings of statistics and empirical evidence gets repeated in an endless echo chamber and all refutations are either ignored, misrepresented or subjected to ideologically driven rejection, often with stale references to supposed “political correctness”, as if that was a statistically mature rebuttal.*
> 
> 
> This article will show that according to crime victim surveys, *the actual rate of sex crimes has been more or less unchanged in Sweden between 2005 and 2014, despite the fact that immigration has increased during the same time period. *Instead, the increasing rates of reported rapes are influenced by expansion of the legal rape definition, an increase in the tendency to report rapes, police efforts to classify each individual rape as a separate crime and their tendency to classify any sex crime that could potentially be rape as rape. It will also demonstrate that reported rates between countries such as Sweden and Denmark cannot be naively compared to do the large difference in legal rape definition and police registration methods._
> 
> _
> ....
> *Conclusion*
> 
> 
> The moral of the story is that you should not get your information about crime statistics from shady blogs who make trivial statistical errors (like confusing reported and actual crimes) or Youtube videos*. Instead, go to the original scientific papers or crime victim surveys, read them and understand the methodology, results, limitations and conclusions. *There are no shortcuts to substantial knowledge.
> 
> 
> The increasing rates of reported rape in Sweden is primarily caused by a repeated expansion of the rape definition, the fact that police is consciously reported all rapes as individual reports and an observed increase in the tendency to report rape. The differences between rates of reported rape between e. g. Sweden and Denmark is caused by differences in rape definition, differences in registration methods and efforts to rape all sex crimes that might be rape as rape.
> 
> 
> In the end, it is doubly ironic that anti-immigration activists say that they refuse to read mainstream media because of its bias, yet (1) are strongly influenced by the increase in sensationalist coverage of violent crime by mainstream media and (2) are so willing to believe claims made by “alternative” media that are unsupported and often contradicted by actual crime victim survey results._​



And I wonder why nobody else in this thread bothered to tell you that the red link didn't link to what you copy pasted. I googled the paragraph in bold and got these matches which have the same paragraph verbatim:

How Anti-Immigration Activists Misuse Rape Statistics

Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention | Debunking Denialism

Is the EU Using Its Refugee Crisis As an Excuse to End Everyone's Freedom to Travel?

The first two belong to a left leaning blog. The last one belongs to Alternet, a left leaning news website. Either you were trying to hide that fact, or you embedded the wrong link in the title. I sincerely hope its the latter, because the former would be drastically unbecoming of you.


----------



## Meathead

Rape only matters if it's on US college campuses, even if it is only made up.


----------



## Coyote

Imperius said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...with a little science over hype
> 
> 
> *How Anti-Immigration Activists Misuse Rape Statistics*
> _The Internet has brought an enormous mass of knowledge to the fingertips of everyone with a computer, smartphone or tablet. Never before have so many individuals been so close to true scientific facts about the world, from fun facts about animals to the latest crime statistics. Large communities with blogs, forums and social media groups have grown up around a wide variety of special interests and it has become a powerful tool for communication, cooperation and the advancement of human knowledge.
> *
> 
> However, this has also led to the creation of ideologically isolated Internet communities, where faulty claims and misunderstandings of statistics and empirical evidence gets repeated in an endless echo chamber and all refutations are either ignored, misrepresented or subjected to ideologically driven rejection, often with stale references to supposed “political correctness”, as if that was a statistically mature rebuttal.*
> 
> 
> This article will show that according to crime victim surveys, *the actual rate of sex crimes has been more or less unchanged in Sweden between 2005 and 2014, despite the fact that immigration has increased during the same time period. *Instead, the increasing rates of reported rapes are influenced by expansion of the legal rape definition, an increase in the tendency to report rapes, police efforts to classify each individual rape as a separate crime and their tendency to classify any sex crime that could potentially be rape as rape. It will also demonstrate that reported rates between countries such as Sweden and Denmark cannot be naively compared to do the large difference in legal rape definition and police registration methods._
> 
> _
> ....
> *Conclusion*
> 
> 
> The moral of the story is that you should not get your information about crime statistics from shady blogs who make trivial statistical errors (like confusing reported and actual crimes) or Youtube videos*. Instead, go to the original scientific papers or crime victim surveys, read them and understand the methodology, results, limitations and conclusions. *There are no shortcuts to substantial knowledge.
> 
> 
> The increasing rates of reported rape in Sweden is primarily caused by a repeated expansion of the rape definition, the fact that police is consciously reported all rapes as individual reports and an observed increase in the tendency to report rape. The differences between rates of reported rape between e. g. Sweden and Denmark is caused by differences in rape definition, differences in registration methods and efforts to rape all sex crimes that might be rape as rape.
> 
> 
> In the end, it is doubly ironic that anti-immigration activists say that they refuse to read mainstream media because of its bias, yet (1) are strongly influenced by the increase in sensationalist coverage of violent crime by mainstream media and (2) are so willing to believe claims made by “alternative” media that are unsupported and often contradicted by actual crime victim survey results._​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I wonder why nobody else in this thread bothered to tell you that the red link didn't link to what you copy pasted. I googled the paragraph in bold and got these matches which have the same paragraph verbatim:
> 
> How Anti-Immigration Activists Misuse Rape Statistics
> 
> Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention | Debunking Denialism
> 
> Is the EU Using Its Refugee Crisis As an Excuse to End Everyone's Freedom to Travel?
> 
> The first two belong to a left leaning blog. The last one belongs to Alternet, a left leaning news website. Either you were trying to hide that fact, or you embedded the wrong link in the title. I sincerely hope its the latter, because the former would be drastically unbecoming of you.
Click to expand...



My apologies - I'll correct the link.  That explains then, why the discussion turned the way it did (I had posted that in another thread).


----------



## Coyote

Imperius said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...with a little science over hype
> 
> 
> *How Anti-Immigration Activists Misuse Rape Statistics*
> _The Internet has brought an enormous mass of knowledge to the fingertips of everyone with a computer, smartphone or tablet. Never before have so many individuals been so close to true scientific facts about the world, from fun facts about animals to the latest crime statistics. Large communities with blogs, forums and social media groups have grown up around a wide variety of special interests and it has become a powerful tool for communication, cooperation and the advancement of human knowledge.
> *
> 
> However, this has also led to the creation of ideologically isolated Internet communities, where faulty claims and misunderstandings of statistics and empirical evidence gets repeated in an endless echo chamber and all refutations are either ignored, misrepresented or subjected to ideologically driven rejection, often with stale references to supposed “political correctness”, as if that was a statistically mature rebuttal.*
> 
> 
> This article will show that according to crime victim surveys, *the actual rate of sex crimes has been more or less unchanged in Sweden between 2005 and 2014, despite the fact that immigration has increased during the same time period. *Instead, the increasing rates of reported rapes are influenced by expansion of the legal rape definition, an increase in the tendency to report rapes, police efforts to classify each individual rape as a separate crime and their tendency to classify any sex crime that could potentially be rape as rape. It will also demonstrate that reported rates between countries such as Sweden and Denmark cannot be naively compared to do the large difference in legal rape definition and police registration methods._
> 
> _
> ....
> *Conclusion*
> 
> 
> The moral of the story is that you should not get your information about crime statistics from shady blogs who make trivial statistical errors (like confusing reported and actual crimes) or Youtube videos*. Instead, go to the original scientific papers or crime victim surveys, read them and understand the methodology, results, limitations and conclusions. *There are no shortcuts to substantial knowledge.
> 
> 
> The increasing rates of reported rape in Sweden is primarily caused by a repeated expansion of the rape definition, the fact that police is consciously reported all rapes as individual reports and an observed increase in the tendency to report rape. The differences between rates of reported rape between e. g. Sweden and Denmark is caused by differences in rape definition, differences in registration methods and efforts to rape all sex crimes that might be rape as rape.
> 
> 
> In the end, it is doubly ironic that anti-immigration activists say that they refuse to read mainstream media because of its bias, yet (1) are strongly influenced by the increase in sensationalist coverage of violent crime by mainstream media and (2) are so willing to believe claims made by “alternative” media that are unsupported and often contradicted by actual crime victim survey results._​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I wonder why nobody else in this thread bothered to tell you that the red link didn't link to what you copy pasted. I googled the paragraph in bold and got these matches which have the same paragraph verbatim:
> 
> How Anti-Immigration Activists Misuse Rape Statistics
> 
> Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention | Debunking Denialism
> 
> Is the EU Using Its Refugee Crisis As an Excuse to End Everyone's Freedom to Travel?
> 
> The first two belong to a left leaning blog. The last one belongs to Alternet, a left leaning news website. Either you were trying to hide that fact, or you embedded the wrong link in the title. I sincerely hope its the latter, because the former would be drastically unbecoming of you.
Click to expand...



I fixed the link - it is this: How Anti-Immigration Activists Misuse Rape Statistics

I've never tried to hide links - certainly  not with a Jesus bridge meme


----------



## TemplarKormac

Coyote said:


> Imperius said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...with a little science over hype
> 
> 
> *How Anti-Immigration Activists Misuse Rape Statistics*
> _The Internet has brought an enormous mass of knowledge to the fingertips of everyone with a computer, smartphone or tablet. Never before have so many individuals been so close to true scientific facts about the world, from fun facts about animals to the latest crime statistics. Large communities with blogs, forums and social media groups have grown up around a wide variety of special interests and it has become a powerful tool for communication, cooperation and the advancement of human knowledge.
> *
> 
> However, this has also led to the creation of ideologically isolated Internet communities, where faulty claims and misunderstandings of statistics and empirical evidence gets repeated in an endless echo chamber and all refutations are either ignored, misrepresented or subjected to ideologically driven rejection, often with stale references to supposed “political correctness”, as if that was a statistically mature rebuttal.*
> 
> 
> This article will show that according to crime victim surveys, *the actual rate of sex crimes has been more or less unchanged in Sweden between 2005 and 2014, despite the fact that immigration has increased during the same time period. *Instead, the increasing rates of reported rapes are influenced by expansion of the legal rape definition, an increase in the tendency to report rapes, police efforts to classify each individual rape as a separate crime and their tendency to classify any sex crime that could potentially be rape as rape. It will also demonstrate that reported rates between countries such as Sweden and Denmark cannot be naively compared to do the large difference in legal rape definition and police registration methods._
> 
> _
> ....
> *Conclusion*
> 
> 
> The moral of the story is that you should not get your information about crime statistics from shady blogs who make trivial statistical errors (like confusing reported and actual crimes) or Youtube videos*. Instead, go to the original scientific papers or crime victim surveys, read them and understand the methodology, results, limitations and conclusions. *There are no shortcuts to substantial knowledge.
> 
> 
> The increasing rates of reported rape in Sweden is primarily caused by a repeated expansion of the rape definition, the fact that police is consciously reported all rapes as individual reports and an observed increase in the tendency to report rape. The differences between rates of reported rape between e. g. Sweden and Denmark is caused by differences in rape definition, differences in registration methods and efforts to rape all sex crimes that might be rape as rape.
> 
> 
> In the end, it is doubly ironic that anti-immigration activists say that they refuse to read mainstream media because of its bias, yet (1) are strongly influenced by the increase in sensationalist coverage of violent crime by mainstream media and (2) are so willing to believe claims made by “alternative” media that are unsupported and often contradicted by actual crime victim survey results._​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I wonder why nobody else in this thread bothered to tell you that the red link didn't link to what you copy pasted. I googled the paragraph in bold and got these matches which have the same paragraph verbatim:
> 
> How Anti-Immigration Activists Misuse Rape Statistics
> 
> Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention | Debunking Denialism
> 
> Is the EU Using Its Refugee Crisis As an Excuse to End Everyone's Freedom to Travel?
> 
> The first two belong to a left leaning blog. The last one belongs to Alternet, a left leaning news website. Either you were trying to hide that fact, or you embedded the wrong link in the title. I sincerely hope its the latter, because the former would be drastically unbecoming of you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> My apologies - I'll correct the link.  That explains then, why the discussion turned the way it did (I had posted that in another thread).
Click to expand...


Good deal. All is well then.


----------



## Coyote

*Report: Inflammatory German migrant rape story "made up"*


----------



## Coyote

*Using Crowdsourcing To Debunk Social Media Hoaxes About Refugee Crimes In Germany*


The problem with social media and "citizen journalists" is there is no incentive to fact check claims.  And no consequences for publishing false claims.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Dear lord you are actually defending the Islamic scum who are Raping European women?    

What about the German politician who lied about getting raped by a rapefugee to protect them from scrutiny?  

You can gerry mander the crime stats by changing definitions and playing that game.    The same way the left tries to do gun violence in comparison to Europe.      

Just try and explain why all these sexual assaults and rapes are happening in migrant areas?    This is an Islamic rapevasion.


----------



## Meathead

Coyote said:


> *Report: Inflammatory German migrant rape story "made up"*


Apparently, women in Cologne suffered mass hysteria on that night. You know how women are, but even so in that number it is a bit mind-boggling.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> Sweden’s rape crisis isn’t what it seems
> 
> _...Behind it you’ll find the resurrection of an old, deadly appeal to fear – that people of certain skin colours are natural-born predators who threaten white women. It’s a version of lynch-mob logic that happens to appeal to the liberal and tolerant as much as the hateful and intolerant.
> 
> And it falls apart as soon as you speak to anyone knowledgeable in Sweden.
> 
> *“What we’re hearing is a very, very extreme exaggeration based on a few isolated events, and the claim that it’s related to immigration is more or less not true at all,” says Jerzy Sarnecki, a criminologist at Stockholm University who has devoted his career to the study of criminality, ethnicity and age.*
> 
> Sweden does indeed have fa*r more reported cases of sexual assault than any other country. *But it’s not because Swedes – of any colour – are very criminal. It’s because they’re very feminist. In 2005, Sweden’s Social Democratic government introduced a new sex-crime law with the world’s most expansive definition of rape.
> 
> Imagine, for example, if your boss rubbed against you in an unwanted way at work once a week for a year. In Canada, this would potentially be a case of sexual assault. Under Germany’s more limited laws, it would be zero cases. *In Sweden, it would be tallied as 52 separate cases of rape. If you engaged in a half-dozen sex acts with your spouse, then later you felt you had not given consent, in Sweden that would be classified as six cases of rape.*
> 
> The marked increase in rape cases during the 2000s is almost entirely a reflection of Sweden’s deep public interest in sexual equality and the rights of women, not of attacks by newcomers.
> 
> But aren’t refugees and immigrants responsible for a greater share of Sweden’s sexual assaults?
> 
> In a sense. Statistics show that the foreign-born in Sweden, as in most European countries, do have a higher rate of criminal charges than the native-born, in everything from shoplifting to murder (though not enough to affect the crime rate by more than a tiny margin). The opposite is true in North America, where immigrants have lower-than-average crime rates.
> 
> Why the difference? Because people who go to Sweden are poorer, and crime rates are mostly a product not of ethnicity but of class. In a 2013 analysis of 63,000 Swedish residents, Prof. Sarnecki and his colleagues found that 75 per cent of the difference in foreign-born crime is accounted for by income and neighbourhood, both indicators of poverty. Among the Swedish-born children of immigrants, the crime rate falls in half (and is almost entirely concentrated in lesser property crimes) and is 100-per-cent attributable to class – they are no more likely to commit crimes, including rape, than ethnic Swedes of the same family income.
> 
> What also stands out is that almost all the victims of these crimes – especially sex crimes – are also foreign-born. But for a handful of headline-grabbing atrocities, it isn’t a case of swarthy men preying on white women, but of Sweden’s system turning refugees into victims of crime.
> 
> That is the real Swedish crisis. Refugee shelters are terrible, dangerous places, whoever is in them. When such shelters, then known as displaced persons camps, held millions of Europeans in the 1940s and 1950s, histories show they were at risk of sexual predation and organized attacks against Jewish refugees.
> 
> Because otherwise generous Sweden doesn’t allow refugees to seek work until they know the language, tens of thousands of people are stuck in these awful places, in similar conditions, or in welfare-dependent netherworlds.
> 
> There they become victims of violent crime, victims of economic exclusion and victims of a grotesque, viral story that portrays them as predators, entirely because of their skin colour._​



Class division is the cause of rape???? Few isolated events??

C'mon, how much of those 'personal' cases get to the mainstream media and how much are left to be quietly 'investigated'? Sure we hear mostly of the most vile cases, and even then it's mostly covered by political correctness out of fear.

Poor poor rapists, the money they get for free, the big welcome chants and the housing they get only makes them feel frustrated. Poor poor 20-something males who ran away from defending their home poor poor raping coward low-lifes.


----------



## Uncensored2008

StLucieBengal said:


> Dear lord you are actually defending the Islamic scum who are Raping European women?
> 
> What about the German politician who lied about getting raped by a rapefugee to protect them from scrutiny?
> 
> You can gerry mander the crime stats by changing definitions and playing that game.    The same way the left tries to do gun violence in comparison to Europe.
> 
> Just try and explain why all these sexual assaults and rapes are happening in migrant areas?    This is an Islamic rapevasion.




You have to understand, the democrats and radical Islam are such close allies that lying to cover for their good friends is just part of being a democrat.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Coyote said:


> *Report: Inflammatory German migrant rape story "made up"*



You and CBS are insanely dishonest. There is not question of the mass rapes, just that 13 year old "Lisa" - a single person, made up a tale.

Cute how you tried to present it as if the overall rape epidemic is "made up"

Well, not really cute; covering for rape is an act of promoting rape. 

Party above all though, and the party is in bed with radical Islam.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sweden’s rape crisis isn’t what it seems
> 
> _...Behind it you’ll find the resurrection of an old, deadly appeal to fear – that people of certain skin colours are natural-born predators who threaten white women. It’s a version of lynch-mob logic that happens to appeal to the liberal and tolerant as much as the hateful and intolerant.
> 
> And it falls apart as soon as you speak to anyone knowledgeable in Sweden.
> 
> *“What we’re hearing is a very, very extreme exaggeration based on a few isolated events, and the claim that it’s related to immigration is more or less not true at all,” says Jerzy Sarnecki, a criminologist at Stockholm University who has devoted his career to the study of criminality, ethnicity and age.*
> 
> Sweden does indeed have fa*r more reported cases of sexual assault than any other country. *But it’s not because Swedes – of any colour – are very criminal. It’s because they’re very feminist. In 2005, Sweden’s Social Democratic government introduced a new sex-crime law with the world’s most expansive definition of rape.
> 
> Imagine, for example, if your boss rubbed against you in an unwanted way at work once a week for a year. In Canada, this would potentially be a case of sexual assault. Under Germany’s more limited laws, it would be zero cases. *In Sweden, it would be tallied as 52 separate cases of rape. If you engaged in a half-dozen sex acts with your spouse, then later you felt you had not given consent, in Sweden that would be classified as six cases of rape.*
> 
> The marked increase in rape cases during the 2000s is almost entirely a reflection of Sweden’s deep public interest in sexual equality and the rights of women, not of attacks by newcomers.
> 
> But aren’t refugees and immigrants responsible for a greater share of Sweden’s sexual assaults?
> 
> In a sense. Statistics show that the foreign-born in Sweden, as in most European countries, do have a higher rate of criminal charges than the native-born, in everything from shoplifting to murder (though not enough to affect the crime rate by more than a tiny margin). The opposite is true in North America, where immigrants have lower-than-average crime rates.
> 
> Why the difference? Because people who go to Sweden are poorer, and crime rates are mostly a product not of ethnicity but of class. In a 2013 analysis of 63,000 Swedish residents, Prof. Sarnecki and his colleagues found that 75 per cent of the difference in foreign-born crime is accounted for by income and neighbourhood, both indicators of poverty. Among the Swedish-born children of immigrants, the crime rate falls in half (and is almost entirely concentrated in lesser property crimes) and is 100-per-cent attributable to class – they are no more likely to commit crimes, including rape, than ethnic Swedes of the same family income.
> 
> What also stands out is that almost all the victims of these crimes – especially sex crimes – are also foreign-born. But for a handful of headline-grabbing atrocities, it isn’t a case of swarthy men preying on white women, but of Sweden’s system turning refugees into victims of crime.
> 
> That is the real Swedish crisis. Refugee shelters are terrible, dangerous places, whoever is in them. When such shelters, then known as displaced persons camps, held millions of Europeans in the 1940s and 1950s, histories show they were at risk of sexual predation and organized attacks against Jewish refugees.
> 
> Because otherwise generous Sweden doesn’t allow refugees to seek work until they know the language, tens of thousands of people are stuck in these awful places, in similar conditions, or in welfare-dependent netherworlds.
> 
> There they become victims of violent crime, victims of economic exclusion and victims of a grotesque, viral story that portrays them as predators, entirely because of their skin colour._​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Class division is the cause of rape???? Few isolated events??
> 
> C'mon, how much of those 'personal' cases get to the mainstream media and how much are left to be quietly 'investigated'? Sure we hear mostly of the most vile cases, and even then it's mostly covered by political correctness out of fear.
> 
> Poor poor rapists, the money they get for free, the big welcome chants and the housing they get only makes them feel frustrated. Poor poor 20-something males who ran away from defending their home poor poor raping coward low-lifes.
Click to expand...


What do actual crime statistics say?

And, how does what you say relate to the differing legal definitions of rape in Sweden compared to other countries?

Maybe we should stick to fact rather than emotion here.


----------



## Coyote

Uncensored2008 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Report: Inflammatory German migrant rape story "made up"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You and CBS are insanely dishonest. There is not question of the mass rapes, just that 13 year old "Lisa" - a single person, made up a tale.
> 
> Cute how you tried to present it as if the overall rape epidemic is "made up"
> 
> Well, not really cute; covering for rape is an act of promoting rape.
> 
> Party above all though, and the party is in bed with radical Islam.
Click to expand...



No one presented the "overall rape epidemic" as made up - but rather, while rapes do occur, the claim of there being a "rape epidemic" is made up by fear mongering anti-immigrant groups.

Do you have any emperical data to show the OP is wrong? Something besides silly claims of "covering for rape"?


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Dear lord you are actually defending the Islamic scum who are Raping European women?
> 
> What about the German politician who lied about getting raped by a rapefugee to protect them from scrutiny?
> 
> You can gerry mander the crime stats by changing definitions and playing that game.    The same way the left tries to do gun violence in comparison to Europe.
> 
> Just try and explain why all these sexual assaults and rapes are happening in migrant areas?    This is an Islamic rapevasion.




Dear Lord,  no one is "defending" anything, just presenting facts over emotional fearmongering.

Can you provide any emperical data to support your claims that higher incidences of rape are reflected in crime stats and that immigrants are the cause of it?

You're rather silly if you think "definitions" have nothing to do with it or constitute "gerrymandering".  When the definition of what constitutes an act of rape, and how that is counted absolutely affects statistics from country to countyry.  The Op outlined that pretty succinctly.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Coyote said:


> No one presented the "overall rape epidemic" as made up - but rather, while rapes do occur, the claim of there being a "rape epidemic" is made up by fear mongering anti-immigrant groups.



If rape of infidel women pleases Allah, is it really even rape? Should these women actually be thanking your allies for doing them the favor of raping them in the name of Allah? Obama Akbar.



> Do you have any emperical data to show the OP is wrong? Something besides silly claims of "covering for rape"?



Do I have empirical evidence debunking your apologetics of RAPE by the allies of your filthy party?

Seriously?







{
Drawing only from German media reports, the list documents more than 160 instances of rape and sexual assault committed by migrants in train stations, swimming pools and other public places against victims as young as seven.

German police use terms such as “southerners” (südländer), men with “dark skin” (dunkelhäutig, dunklere gesichtsfarbe, dunklem hauttyp) or “southern skin colour” (südländische hautfarbe) to describe the alleged perpetrators.

Authorities across the country have been accused of downplaying the true extent of the problem by suppressing information about migrant-related crimes, ostensibly due to a “lack of public interest”.}

New democrat slogan; "what's wrong with rape?"

Hillary, promoting RAPE to please Allah.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sweden’s rape crisis isn’t what it seems
> 
> _...Behind it you’ll find the resurrection of an old, deadly appeal to fear – that people of certain skin colours are natural-born predators who threaten white women. It’s a version of lynch-mob logic that happens to appeal to the liberal and tolerant as much as the hateful and intolerant.
> 
> And it falls apart as soon as you speak to anyone knowledgeable in Sweden.
> 
> *“What we’re hearing is a very, very extreme exaggeration based on a few isolated events, and the claim that it’s related to immigration is more or less not true at all,” says Jerzy Sarnecki, a criminologist at Stockholm University who has devoted his career to the study of criminality, ethnicity and age.*
> 
> Sweden does indeed have fa*r more reported cases of sexual assault than any other country. *But it’s not because Swedes – of any colour – are very criminal. It’s because they’re very feminist. In 2005, Sweden’s Social Democratic government introduced a new sex-crime law with the world’s most expansive definition of rape.
> 
> Imagine, for example, if your boss rubbed against you in an unwanted way at work once a week for a year. In Canada, this would potentially be a case of sexual assault. Under Germany’s more limited laws, it would be zero cases. *In Sweden, it would be tallied as 52 separate cases of rape. If you engaged in a half-dozen sex acts with your spouse, then later you felt you had not given consent, in Sweden that would be classified as six cases of rape.*
> 
> The marked increase in rape cases during the 2000s is almost entirely a reflection of Sweden’s deep public interest in sexual equality and the rights of women, not of attacks by newcomers.
> 
> But aren’t refugees and immigrants responsible for a greater share of Sweden’s sexual assaults?
> 
> In a sense. Statistics show that the foreign-born in Sweden, as in most European countries, do have a higher rate of criminal charges than the native-born, in everything from shoplifting to murder (though not enough to affect the crime rate by more than a tiny margin). The opposite is true in North America, where immigrants have lower-than-average crime rates.
> 
> Why the difference? Because people who go to Sweden are poorer, and crime rates are mostly a product not of ethnicity but of class. In a 2013 analysis of 63,000 Swedish residents, Prof. Sarnecki and his colleagues found that 75 per cent of the difference in foreign-born crime is accounted for by income and neighbourhood, both indicators of poverty. Among the Swedish-born children of immigrants, the crime rate falls in half (and is almost entirely concentrated in lesser property crimes) and is 100-per-cent attributable to class – they are no more likely to commit crimes, including rape, than ethnic Swedes of the same family income.
> 
> What also stands out is that almost all the victims of these crimes – especially sex crimes – are also foreign-born. But for a handful of headline-grabbing atrocities, it isn’t a case of swarthy men preying on white women, but of Sweden’s system turning refugees into victims of crime.
> 
> That is the real Swedish crisis. Refugee shelters are terrible, dangerous places, whoever is in them. When such shelters, then known as displaced persons camps, held millions of Europeans in the 1940s and 1950s, histories show they were at risk of sexual predation and organized attacks against Jewish refugees.
> 
> Because otherwise generous Sweden doesn’t allow refugees to seek work until they know the language, tens of thousands of people are stuck in these awful places, in similar conditions, or in welfare-dependent netherworlds.
> 
> There they become victims of violent crime, victims of economic exclusion and victims of a grotesque, viral story that portrays them as predators, entirely because of their skin colour._​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Class division is the cause of rape???? Few isolated events??
> 
> C'mon, how much of those 'personal' cases get to the mainstream media and how much are left to be quietly 'investigated'? Sure we hear mostly of the most vile cases, and even then it's mostly covered by political correctness out of fear.
> 
> Poor poor rapists, the money they get for free, the big welcome chants and the housing they get only makes them feel frustrated. Poor poor 20-something males who ran away from defending their home poor poor raping coward low-lifes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do actual crime statistics say?
> 
> And, how does what you say relate to the differing legal definitions of rape in Sweden compared to other countries?
> 
> Maybe we should stick to fact rather than emotion here.
Click to expand...


Statistics can be altered to match any agenda...ask your commy-socialist friend Stalin.

Fact is we know it's not only Sweden, and fact is most cases don't reach the media. Another fact is nurses in hospitals try to convince *raped tourists not to report* or just invite a police officer to make a farce show...I personally know such cases.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sweden’s rape crisis isn’t what it seems
> 
> _...Behind it you’ll find the resurrection of an old, deadly appeal to fear – that people of certain skin colours are natural-born predators who threaten white women. It’s a version of lynch-mob logic that happens to appeal to the liberal and tolerant as much as the hateful and intolerant.
> 
> And it falls apart as soon as you speak to anyone knowledgeable in Sweden.
> 
> *“What we’re hearing is a very, very extreme exaggeration based on a few isolated events, and the claim that it’s related to immigration is more or less not true at all,” says Jerzy Sarnecki, a criminologist at Stockholm University who has devoted his career to the study of criminality, ethnicity and age.*
> 
> Sweden does indeed have fa*r more reported cases of sexual assault than any other country. *But it’s not because Swedes – of any colour – are very criminal. It’s because they’re very feminist. In 2005, Sweden’s Social Democratic government introduced a new sex-crime law with the world’s most expansive definition of rape.
> 
> Imagine, for example, if your boss rubbed against you in an unwanted way at work once a week for a year. In Canada, this would potentially be a case of sexual assault. Under Germany’s more limited laws, it would be zero cases. *In Sweden, it would be tallied as 52 separate cases of rape. If you engaged in a half-dozen sex acts with your spouse, then later you felt you had not given consent, in Sweden that would be classified as six cases of rape.*
> 
> The marked increase in rape cases during the 2000s is almost entirely a reflection of Sweden’s deep public interest in sexual equality and the rights of women, not of attacks by newcomers.
> 
> But aren’t refugees and immigrants responsible for a greater share of Sweden’s sexual assaults?
> 
> In a sense. Statistics show that the foreign-born in Sweden, as in most European countries, do have a higher rate of criminal charges than the native-born, in everything from shoplifting to murder (though not enough to affect the crime rate by more than a tiny margin). The opposite is true in North America, where immigrants have lower-than-average crime rates.
> 
> Why the difference? Because people who go to Sweden are poorer, and crime rates are mostly a product not of ethnicity but of class. In a 2013 analysis of 63,000 Swedish residents, Prof. Sarnecki and his colleagues found that 75 per cent of the difference in foreign-born crime is accounted for by income and neighbourhood, both indicators of poverty. Among the Swedish-born children of immigrants, the crime rate falls in half (and is almost entirely concentrated in lesser property crimes) and is 100-per-cent attributable to class – they are no more likely to commit crimes, including rape, than ethnic Swedes of the same family income.
> 
> What also stands out is that almost all the victims of these crimes – especially sex crimes – are also foreign-born. But for a handful of headline-grabbing atrocities, it isn’t a case of swarthy men preying on white women, but of Sweden’s system turning refugees into victims of crime.
> 
> That is the real Swedish crisis. Refugee shelters are terrible, dangerous places, whoever is in them. When such shelters, then known as displaced persons camps, held millions of Europeans in the 1940s and 1950s, histories show they were at risk of sexual predation and organized attacks against Jewish refugees.
> 
> Because otherwise generous Sweden doesn’t allow refugees to seek work until they know the language, tens of thousands of people are stuck in these awful places, in similar conditions, or in welfare-dependent netherworlds.
> 
> There they become victims of violent crime, victims of economic exclusion and victims of a grotesque, viral story that portrays them as predators, entirely because of their skin colour._​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Class division is the cause of rape???? Few isolated events??
> 
> C'mon, how much of those 'personal' cases get to the mainstream media and how much are left to be quietly 'investigated'? Sure we hear mostly of the most vile cases, and even then it's mostly covered by political correctness out of fear.
> 
> Poor poor rapists, the money they get for free, the big welcome chants and the housing they get only makes them feel frustrated. Poor poor 20-something males who ran away from defending their home poor poor raping coward low-lifes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do actual crime statistics say?
> 
> And, how does what you say relate to the differing legal definitions of rape in Sweden compared to other countries?
> 
> Maybe we should stick to fact rather than emotion here.
Click to expand...


Another fact is we know it's supported by those immigrant societies, who see rape of boys and girls as nothing special,  and encouraged by their religious law.

How can a woman apologize for this ??


----------



## Coyote

Uncensored2008 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one presented the "overall rape epidemic" as made up - but rather, while rapes do occur, the claim of there being a "rape epidemic" is made up by fear mongering anti-immigrant groups.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If rape of infidel women pleases Allah, is it really even rape? Should these women actually be thanking your allies for doing them the favor of raping them in the name of Allah? Obama Akbar.
Click to expand...


Now you're just sounding like a retard.




> Do you have any emperical data to show the OP is wrong? Something besides silly claims of "covering for rape"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do I have empirical evidence debunking your apologetics of RAPE by the allies of your filthy party?
> 
> Seriously?
Click to expand...


Yes, seriously.  All you offer is emotional hype.



> {
> Drawing only from German media reports, the list documents more than 160 instances of rape and sexual assault committed by migrants in train stations, swimming pools and other public places against victims as young as seven.



That article talks about 2 incidents, one involving 2 people and the other 1 person.

That's not exactly empirical data.



> German police use terms such as “southerners” (südländer), men with “dark skin” (dunkelhäutig, dunklere gesichtsfarbe, dunklem hauttyp) or “southern skin colour” (südländische hautfarbe) to describe the alleged perpetrators.
> 
> Authorities across the country have been accused of downplaying the true extent of the problem by suppressing information about migrant-related crimes, ostensibly due to a “lack of public interest”.}
> 
> You link to a German article, do you read German?  I don't.  Instead, when you cut and paste how about providing a link to the source?  Like Europe’s Muslim rape epidemic: ‘Cologne is every day’.
> 
> Lots of use of "alleged" and "claimed" and claims of "supressing" info.  What actual data is there?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New democrat slogan; "what's wrong with rape?"
> 
> Hillary, promoting RAPE to please Allah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh geez.  More stupidy.
Click to expand...


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sweden’s rape crisis isn’t what it seems
> 
> _...Behind it you’ll find the resurrection of an old, deadly appeal to fear – that people of certain skin colours are natural-born predators who threaten white women. It’s a version of lynch-mob logic that happens to appeal to the liberal and tolerant as much as the hateful and intolerant.
> 
> And it falls apart as soon as you speak to anyone knowledgeable in Sweden.
> 
> *“What we’re hearing is a very, very extreme exaggeration based on a few isolated events, and the claim that it’s related to immigration is more or less not true at all,” says Jerzy Sarnecki, a criminologist at Stockholm University who has devoted his career to the study of criminality, ethnicity and age.*
> 
> Sweden does indeed have fa*r more reported cases of sexual assault than any other country. *But it’s not because Swedes – of any colour – are very criminal. It’s because they’re very feminist. In 2005, Sweden’s Social Democratic government introduced a new sex-crime law with the world’s most expansive definition of rape.
> 
> Imagine, for example, if your boss rubbed against you in an unwanted way at work once a week for a year. In Canada, this would potentially be a case of sexual assault. Under Germany’s more limited laws, it would be zero cases. *In Sweden, it would be tallied as 52 separate cases of rape. If you engaged in a half-dozen sex acts with your spouse, then later you felt you had not given consent, in Sweden that would be classified as six cases of rape.*
> 
> The marked increase in rape cases during the 2000s is almost entirely a reflection of Sweden’s deep public interest in sexual equality and the rights of women, not of attacks by newcomers.
> 
> But aren’t refugees and immigrants responsible for a greater share of Sweden’s sexual assaults?
> 
> In a sense. Statistics show that the foreign-born in Sweden, as in most European countries, do have a higher rate of criminal charges than the native-born, in everything from shoplifting to murder (though not enough to affect the crime rate by more than a tiny margin). The opposite is true in North America, where immigrants have lower-than-average crime rates.
> 
> Why the difference? Because people who go to Sweden are poorer, and crime rates are mostly a product not of ethnicity but of class. In a 2013 analysis of 63,000 Swedish residents, Prof. Sarnecki and his colleagues found that 75 per cent of the difference in foreign-born crime is accounted for by income and neighbourhood, both indicators of poverty. Among the Swedish-born children of immigrants, the crime rate falls in half (and is almost entirely concentrated in lesser property crimes) and is 100-per-cent attributable to class – they are no more likely to commit crimes, including rape, than ethnic Swedes of the same family income.
> 
> What also stands out is that almost all the victims of these crimes – especially sex crimes – are also foreign-born. But for a handful of headline-grabbing atrocities, it isn’t a case of swarthy men preying on white women, but of Sweden’s system turning refugees into victims of crime.
> 
> That is the real Swedish crisis. Refugee shelters are terrible, dangerous places, whoever is in them. When such shelters, then known as displaced persons camps, held millions of Europeans in the 1940s and 1950s, histories show they were at risk of sexual predation and organized attacks against Jewish refugees.
> 
> Because otherwise generous Sweden doesn’t allow refugees to seek work until they know the language, tens of thousands of people are stuck in these awful places, in similar conditions, or in welfare-dependent netherworlds.
> 
> There they become victims of violent crime, victims of economic exclusion and victims of a grotesque, viral story that portrays them as predators, entirely because of their skin colour._​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Class division is the cause of rape???? Few isolated events??
> 
> C'mon, how much of those 'personal' cases get to the mainstream media and how much are left to be quietly 'investigated'? Sure we hear mostly of the most vile cases, and even then it's mostly covered by political correctness out of fear.
> 
> Poor poor rapists, the money they get for free, the big welcome chants and the housing they get only makes them feel frustrated. Poor poor 20-something males who ran away from defending their home poor poor raping coward low-lifes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do actual crime statistics say?
> 
> And, how does what you say relate to the differing legal definitions of rape in Sweden compared to other countries?
> 
> Maybe we should stick to fact rather than emotion here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Statistics can be altered to match any agenda...ask your commy-socialist friend Stalin.
> 
> Fact is we know it's not only Sweden, and fact is most cases don't reach the media. Another fact is nurses in hospitals try to convince *raped tourists not to report* or just invite a police officer to make a farce show...I personally know such cases.
Click to expand...


Crime data provides the best available evidence - far more than testimonials and unsubstantiated claims.  In any other instance, we'd probably rely on crime data so why not here?  hmmm?


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sweden’s rape crisis isn’t what it seems
> 
> _...Behind it you’ll find the resurrection of an old, deadly appeal to fear – that people of certain skin colours are natural-born predators who threaten white women. It’s a version of lynch-mob logic that happens to appeal to the liberal and tolerant as much as the hateful and intolerant.
> 
> And it falls apart as soon as you speak to anyone knowledgeable in Sweden.
> 
> *“What we’re hearing is a very, very extreme exaggeration based on a few isolated events, and the claim that it’s related to immigration is more or less not true at all,” says Jerzy Sarnecki, a criminologist at Stockholm University who has devoted his career to the study of criminality, ethnicity and age.*
> 
> Sweden does indeed have fa*r more reported cases of sexual assault than any other country. *But it’s not because Swedes – of any colour – are very criminal. It’s because they’re very feminist. In 2005, Sweden’s Social Democratic government introduced a new sex-crime law with the world’s most expansive definition of rape.
> 
> Imagine, for example, if your boss rubbed against you in an unwanted way at work once a week for a year. In Canada, this would potentially be a case of sexual assault. Under Germany’s more limited laws, it would be zero cases. *In Sweden, it would be tallied as 52 separate cases of rape. If you engaged in a half-dozen sex acts with your spouse, then later you felt you had not given consent, in Sweden that would be classified as six cases of rape.*
> 
> The marked increase in rape cases during the 2000s is almost entirely a reflection of Sweden’s deep public interest in sexual equality and the rights of women, not of attacks by newcomers.
> 
> But aren’t refugees and immigrants responsible for a greater share of Sweden’s sexual assaults?
> 
> In a sense. Statistics show that the foreign-born in Sweden, as in most European countries, do have a higher rate of criminal charges than the native-born, in everything from shoplifting to murder (though not enough to affect the crime rate by more than a tiny margin). The opposite is true in North America, where immigrants have lower-than-average crime rates.
> 
> Why the difference? Because people who go to Sweden are poorer, and crime rates are mostly a product not of ethnicity but of class. In a 2013 analysis of 63,000 Swedish residents, Prof. Sarnecki and his colleagues found that 75 per cent of the difference in foreign-born crime is accounted for by income and neighbourhood, both indicators of poverty. Among the Swedish-born children of immigrants, the crime rate falls in half (and is almost entirely concentrated in lesser property crimes) and is 100-per-cent attributable to class – they are no more likely to commit crimes, including rape, than ethnic Swedes of the same family income.
> 
> What also stands out is that almost all the victims of these crimes – especially sex crimes – are also foreign-born. But for a handful of headline-grabbing atrocities, it isn’t a case of swarthy men preying on white women, but of Sweden’s system turning refugees into victims of crime.
> 
> That is the real Swedish crisis. Refugee shelters are terrible, dangerous places, whoever is in them. When such shelters, then known as displaced persons camps, held millions of Europeans in the 1940s and 1950s, histories show they were at risk of sexual predation and organized attacks against Jewish refugees.
> 
> Because otherwise generous Sweden doesn’t allow refugees to seek work until they know the language, tens of thousands of people are stuck in these awful places, in similar conditions, or in welfare-dependent netherworlds.
> 
> There they become victims of violent crime, victims of economic exclusion and victims of a grotesque, viral story that portrays them as predators, entirely because of their skin colour._​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Class division is the cause of rape???? Few isolated events??
> 
> C'mon, how much of those 'personal' cases get to the mainstream media and how much are left to be quietly 'investigated'? Sure we hear mostly of the most vile cases, and even then it's mostly covered by political correctness out of fear.
> 
> Poor poor rapists, the money they get for free, the big welcome chants and the housing they get only makes them feel frustrated. Poor poor 20-something males who ran away from defending their home poor poor raping coward low-lifes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do actual crime statistics say?
> 
> And, how does what you say relate to the differing legal definitions of rape in Sweden compared to other countries?
> 
> Maybe we should stick to fact rather than emotion here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another fact is we know it's supported by those immigrant societies, who see rape of boys and girls as nothing special,  and encouraged by their religious law.
> 
> How can a woman apologize for this ??
Click to expand...


No one is apologizing for anything.

I simply want truth.  Not fear mongering or hate mongering.  These "immigrant societies" comprises a whole lot of different countries and cultures and you are claiming they all see the rape of boys and girls as nothing special and are "encouraged" by their religious law?

Again, let's see actual evidence that this is occurring in Sweden, for example.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sweden’s rape crisis isn’t what it seems
> 
> _...Behind it you’ll find the resurrection of an old, deadly appeal to fear – that people of certain skin colours are natural-born predators who threaten white women. It’s a version of lynch-mob logic that happens to appeal to the liberal and tolerant as much as the hateful and intolerant.
> 
> And it falls apart as soon as you speak to anyone knowledgeable in Sweden.
> 
> *“What we’re hearing is a very, very extreme exaggeration based on a few isolated events, and the claim that it’s related to immigration is more or less not true at all,” says Jerzy Sarnecki, a criminologist at Stockholm University who has devoted his career to the study of criminality, ethnicity and age.*
> 
> Sweden does indeed have fa*r more reported cases of sexual assault than any other country. *But it’s not because Swedes – of any colour – are very criminal. It’s because they’re very feminist. In 2005, Sweden’s Social Democratic government introduced a new sex-crime law with the world’s most expansive definition of rape.
> 
> Imagine, for example, if your boss rubbed against you in an unwanted way at work once a week for a year. In Canada, this would potentially be a case of sexual assault. Under Germany’s more limited laws, it would be zero cases. *In Sweden, it would be tallied as 52 separate cases of rape. If you engaged in a half-dozen sex acts with your spouse, then later you felt you had not given consent, in Sweden that would be classified as six cases of rape.*
> 
> The marked increase in rape cases during the 2000s is almost entirely a reflection of Sweden’s deep public interest in sexual equality and the rights of women, not of attacks by newcomers.
> 
> But aren’t refugees and immigrants responsible for a greater share of Sweden’s sexual assaults?
> 
> In a sense. Statistics show that the foreign-born in Sweden, as in most European countries, do have a higher rate of criminal charges than the native-born, in everything from shoplifting to murder (though not enough to affect the crime rate by more than a tiny margin). The opposite is true in North America, where immigrants have lower-than-average crime rates.
> 
> Why the difference? Because people who go to Sweden are poorer, and crime rates are mostly a product not of ethnicity but of class. In a 2013 analysis of 63,000 Swedish residents, Prof. Sarnecki and his colleagues found that 75 per cent of the difference in foreign-born crime is accounted for by income and neighbourhood, both indicators of poverty. Among the Swedish-born children of immigrants, the crime rate falls in half (and is almost entirely concentrated in lesser property crimes) and is 100-per-cent attributable to class – they are no more likely to commit crimes, including rape, than ethnic Swedes of the same family income.
> 
> What also stands out is that almost all the victims of these crimes – especially sex crimes – are also foreign-born. But for a handful of headline-grabbing atrocities, it isn’t a case of swarthy men preying on white women, but of Sweden’s system turning refugees into victims of crime.
> 
> That is the real Swedish crisis. Refugee shelters are terrible, dangerous places, whoever is in them. When such shelters, then known as displaced persons camps, held millions of Europeans in the 1940s and 1950s, histories show they were at risk of sexual predation and organized attacks against Jewish refugees.
> 
> Because otherwise generous Sweden doesn’t allow refugees to seek work until they know the language, tens of thousands of people are stuck in these awful places, in similar conditions, or in welfare-dependent netherworlds.
> 
> There they become victims of violent crime, victims of economic exclusion and victims of a grotesque, viral story that portrays them as predators, entirely because of their skin colour._​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Class division is the cause of rape???? Few isolated events??
> 
> C'mon, how much of those 'personal' cases get to the mainstream media and how much are left to be quietly 'investigated'? Sure we hear mostly of the most vile cases, and even then it's mostly covered by political correctness out of fear.
> 
> Poor poor rapists, the money they get for free, the big welcome chants and the housing they get only makes them feel frustrated. Poor poor 20-something males who ran away from defending their home poor poor raping coward low-lifes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do actual crime statistics say?
> 
> And, how does what you say relate to the differing legal definitions of rape in Sweden compared to other countries?
> 
> Maybe we should stick to fact rather than emotion here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another fact is we know it's supported by those immigrant societies, who see rape of boys and girls as nothing special,  and encouraged by their religious law.
> 
> How can a woman apologize for this ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No one is apologizing for anything.
> 
> I simply want truth.  Not fear mongering or hate mongering.  These "immigrant societies" comprises a whole lot of different countries and cultures and you are claiming they all see the rape of boys and girls as nothing special and are "encouraged" by their religious law?
> 
> Again, let's see actual evidence that this is occurring in Sweden, for example.
Click to expand...




Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sweden’s rape crisis isn’t what it seems
> 
> _...Behind it you’ll find the resurrection of an old, deadly appeal to fear – that people of certain skin colours are natural-born predators who threaten white women. It’s a version of lynch-mob logic that happens to appeal to the liberal and tolerant as much as the hateful and intolerant.
> 
> And it falls apart as soon as you speak to anyone knowledgeable in Sweden.
> 
> *“What we’re hearing is a very, very extreme exaggeration based on a few isolated events, and the claim that it’s related to immigration is more or less not true at all,” says Jerzy Sarnecki, a criminologist at Stockholm University who has devoted his career to the study of criminality, ethnicity and age.*
> 
> Sweden does indeed have fa*r more reported cases of sexual assault than any other country. *But it’s not because Swedes – of any colour – are very criminal. It’s because they’re very feminist. In 2005, Sweden’s Social Democratic government introduced a new sex-crime law with the world’s most expansive definition of rape.
> 
> Imagine, for example, if your boss rubbed against you in an unwanted way at work once a week for a year. In Canada, this would potentially be a case of sexual assault. Under Germany’s more limited laws, it would be zero cases. *In Sweden, it would be tallied as 52 separate cases of rape. If you engaged in a half-dozen sex acts with your spouse, then later you felt you had not given consent, in Sweden that would be classified as six cases of rape.*
> 
> The marked increase in rape cases during the 2000s is almost entirely a reflection of Sweden’s deep public interest in sexual equality and the rights of women, not of attacks by newcomers.
> 
> But aren’t refugees and immigrants responsible for a greater share of Sweden’s sexual assaults?
> 
> In a sense. Statistics show that the foreign-born in Sweden, as in most European countries, do have a higher rate of criminal charges than the native-born, in everything from shoplifting to murder (though not enough to affect the crime rate by more than a tiny margin). The opposite is true in North America, where immigrants have lower-than-average crime rates.
> 
> Why the difference? Because people who go to Sweden are poorer, and crime rates are mostly a product not of ethnicity but of class. In a 2013 analysis of 63,000 Swedish residents, Prof. Sarnecki and his colleagues found that 75 per cent of the difference in foreign-born crime is accounted for by income and neighbourhood, both indicators of poverty. Among the Swedish-born children of immigrants, the crime rate falls in half (and is almost entirely concentrated in lesser property crimes) and is 100-per-cent attributable to class – they are no more likely to commit crimes, including rape, than ethnic Swedes of the same family income.
> 
> What also stands out is that almost all the victims of these crimes – especially sex crimes – are also foreign-born. But for a handful of headline-grabbing atrocities, it isn’t a case of swarthy men preying on white women, but of Sweden’s system turning refugees into victims of crime.
> 
> That is the real Swedish crisis. Refugee shelters are terrible, dangerous places, whoever is in them. When such shelters, then known as displaced persons camps, held millions of Europeans in the 1940s and 1950s, histories show they were at risk of sexual predation and organized attacks against Jewish refugees.
> 
> Because otherwise generous Sweden doesn’t allow refugees to seek work until they know the language, tens of thousands of people are stuck in these awful places, in similar conditions, or in welfare-dependent netherworlds.
> 
> There they become victims of violent crime, victims of economic exclusion and victims of a grotesque, viral story that portrays them as predators, entirely because of their skin colour._​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Class division is the cause of rape???? Few isolated events??
> 
> C'mon, how much of those 'personal' cases get to the mainstream media and how much are left to be quietly 'investigated'? Sure we hear mostly of the most vile cases, and even then it's mostly covered by political correctness out of fear.
> 
> Poor poor rapists, the money they get for free, the big welcome chants and the housing they get only makes them feel frustrated. Poor poor 20-something males who ran away from defending their home poor poor raping coward low-lifes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do actual crime statistics say?
> 
> And, how does what you say relate to the differing legal definitions of rape in Sweden compared to other countries?
> 
> Maybe we should stick to fact rather than emotion here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Statistics can be altered to match any agenda...ask your commy-socialist friend Stalin.
> 
> Fact is we know it's not only Sweden, and fact is most cases don't reach the media. Another fact is nurses in hospitals try to convince *raped tourists not to report* or just invite a police officer to make a farce show...I personally know such cases.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Crime data provides the best available evidence - far more than testimonials and unsubstantiated claims.  In any other instance, we'd probably rely on crime data so why not here?  hmmm?
Click to expand...


Because here we can clearly see a bias in reporting those crimes.
Sweden has the most leftist govt with a clear agenda therefore the data is being tailored.

Do you think statistics coming from an immigrant dominated cities, where the police can't defend the citizens are representing the reality on the streets?


----------



## Coyote

Here's another article


Migrants linked to 69,000 would-be or actual crimes in Germany in first three months of 2016: police

_Migrants in Germany committed or tried to commit some 69,000 crimes in the first quarter of 2016, according to a police report that could raise unease, especially among anti-immigrant groups, about Chancellor Angela Merkel's liberal migrant policy.

There was a record influx of more than a million migrants into Germany last year and concerns are now widespread about how Europe's largest economy will manage to integrate them and ensure security.

The report from the BKA federal police showed that *migrants from northern Africa, Georgia and Serbia were disproportionately represented among the suspects*.

*Absolute numbers of crimes committed by Syrians, Afghans and Iraqis - the three biggest groups of asylum seekers in Germany - were high but given the proportion of migrants that they account for, their involvement in crimes was "clearly disproportionately low", the report said.*

*It gave no breakdown of the number of actual crimes and of would-be crimes, nor did it state what percentage the 69,000 figure represented with respect to the total number of crimes and would-be crimes committed in the first three months of 2016.*

The report stated that *the vast majority of migrants did not commit any crimes.*

It is the first time the BKA has published a report on crimes committed by migrants containing data from all of Germany's 16 states, so there is no comparable data.

The report showed that 29.2 percent of the crimes migrants committed or tried to commit in the first quarter were thefts, 28.3 percent were property or forgery offences and 23 percent offences such as bodily harm, robbery and unlawful detention.

Drug-related offences accounted for 6.6 percent and sex crimes accounted for 1.1 percent._​


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sweden’s rape crisis isn’t what it seems
> 
> _...Behind it you’ll find the resurrection of an old, deadly appeal to fear – that people of certain skin colours are natural-born predators who threaten white women. It’s a version of lynch-mob logic that happens to appeal to the liberal and tolerant as much as the hateful and intolerant.
> 
> And it falls apart as soon as you speak to anyone knowledgeable in Sweden.
> 
> *“What we’re hearing is a very, very extreme exaggeration based on a few isolated events, and the claim that it’s related to immigration is more or less not true at all,” says Jerzy Sarnecki, a criminologist at Stockholm University who has devoted his career to the study of criminality, ethnicity and age.*
> 
> Sweden does indeed have fa*r more reported cases of sexual assault than any other country. *But it’s not because Swedes – of any colour – are very criminal. It’s because they’re very feminist. In 2005, Sweden’s Social Democratic government introduced a new sex-crime law with the world’s most expansive definition of rape.
> 
> Imagine, for example, if your boss rubbed against you in an unwanted way at work once a week for a year. In Canada, this would potentially be a case of sexual assault. Under Germany’s more limited laws, it would be zero cases. *In Sweden, it would be tallied as 52 separate cases of rape. If you engaged in a half-dozen sex acts with your spouse, then later you felt you had not given consent, in Sweden that would be classified as six cases of rape.*
> 
> The marked increase in rape cases during the 2000s is almost entirely a reflection of Sweden’s deep public interest in sexual equality and the rights of women, not of attacks by newcomers.
> 
> But aren’t refugees and immigrants responsible for a greater share of Sweden’s sexual assaults?
> 
> In a sense. Statistics show that the foreign-born in Sweden, as in most European countries, do have a higher rate of criminal charges than the native-born, in everything from shoplifting to murder (though not enough to affect the crime rate by more than a tiny margin). The opposite is true in North America, where immigrants have lower-than-average crime rates.
> 
> Why the difference? Because people who go to Sweden are poorer, and crime rates are mostly a product not of ethnicity but of class. In a 2013 analysis of 63,000 Swedish residents, Prof. Sarnecki and his colleagues found that 75 per cent of the difference in foreign-born crime is accounted for by income and neighbourhood, both indicators of poverty. Among the Swedish-born children of immigrants, the crime rate falls in half (and is almost entirely concentrated in lesser property crimes) and is 100-per-cent attributable to class – they are no more likely to commit crimes, including rape, than ethnic Swedes of the same family income.
> 
> What also stands out is that almost all the victims of these crimes – especially sex crimes – are also foreign-born. But for a handful of headline-grabbing atrocities, it isn’t a case of swarthy men preying on white women, but of Sweden’s system turning refugees into victims of crime.
> 
> That is the real Swedish crisis. Refugee shelters are terrible, dangerous places, whoever is in them. When such shelters, then known as displaced persons camps, held millions of Europeans in the 1940s and 1950s, histories show they were at risk of sexual predation and organized attacks against Jewish refugees.
> 
> Because otherwise generous Sweden doesn’t allow refugees to seek work until they know the language, tens of thousands of people are stuck in these awful places, in similar conditions, or in welfare-dependent netherworlds.
> 
> There they become victims of violent crime, victims of economic exclusion and victims of a grotesque, viral story that portrays them as predators, entirely because of their skin colour._​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Class division is the cause of rape???? Few isolated events??
> 
> C'mon, how much of those 'personal' cases get to the mainstream media and how much are left to be quietly 'investigated'? Sure we hear mostly of the most vile cases, and even then it's mostly covered by political correctness out of fear.
> 
> Poor poor rapists, the money they get for free, the big welcome chants and the housing they get only makes them feel frustrated. Poor poor 20-something males who ran away from defending their home poor poor raping coward low-lifes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do actual crime statistics say?
> 
> And, how does what you say relate to the differing legal definitions of rape in Sweden compared to other countries?
> 
> Maybe we should stick to fact rather than emotion here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another fact is we know it's supported by those immigrant societies, who see rape of boys and girls as nothing special,  and encouraged by their religious law.
> 
> How can a woman apologize for this ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No one is apologizing for anything.
> 
> I simply want truth.  Not fear mongering or hate mongering.  These "immigrant societies" comprises a whole lot of different countries and cultures and you are claiming they all see the rape of boys and girls as nothing special and are "encouraged" by their religious law?
> 
> Again, let's see actual evidence that this is occurring in Sweden, for example.
Click to expand...


"Many different cultures"- i think there's one thing that is common to most immigrants who came illegally from the ME to Europe today.

Why isolate? Why not look at the situation in whole, Germany, Czech Republic, France, Denmark, Netherlands?


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sweden’s rape crisis isn’t what it seems
> 
> _...Behind it you’ll find the resurrection of an old, deadly appeal to fear – that people of certain skin colours are natural-born predators who threaten white women. It’s a version of lynch-mob logic that happens to appeal to the liberal and tolerant as much as the hateful and intolerant.
> 
> And it falls apart as soon as you speak to anyone knowledgeable in Sweden.
> 
> *“What we’re hearing is a very, very extreme exaggeration based on a few isolated events, and the claim that it’s related to immigration is more or less not true at all,” says Jerzy Sarnecki, a criminologist at Stockholm University who has devoted his career to the study of criminality, ethnicity and age.*
> 
> Sweden does indeed have fa*r more reported cases of sexual assault than any other country. *But it’s not because Swedes – of any colour – are very criminal. It’s because they’re very feminist. In 2005, Sweden’s Social Democratic government introduced a new sex-crime law with the world’s most expansive definition of rape.
> 
> Imagine, for example, if your boss rubbed against you in an unwanted way at work once a week for a year. In Canada, this would potentially be a case of sexual assault. Under Germany’s more limited laws, it would be zero cases. *In Sweden, it would be tallied as 52 separate cases of rape. If you engaged in a half-dozen sex acts with your spouse, then later you felt you had not given consent, in Sweden that would be classified as six cases of rape.*
> 
> The marked increase in rape cases during the 2000s is almost entirely a reflection of Sweden’s deep public interest in sexual equality and the rights of women, not of attacks by newcomers.
> 
> But aren’t refugees and immigrants responsible for a greater share of Sweden’s sexual assaults?
> 
> In a sense. Statistics show that the foreign-born in Sweden, as in most European countries, do have a higher rate of criminal charges than the native-born, in everything from shoplifting to murder (though not enough to affect the crime rate by more than a tiny margin). The opposite is true in North America, where immigrants have lower-than-average crime rates.
> 
> Why the difference? Because people who go to Sweden are poorer, and crime rates are mostly a product not of ethnicity but of class. In a 2013 analysis of 63,000 Swedish residents, Prof. Sarnecki and his colleagues found that 75 per cent of the difference in foreign-born crime is accounted for by income and neighbourhood, both indicators of poverty. Among the Swedish-born children of immigrants, the crime rate falls in half (and is almost entirely concentrated in lesser property crimes) and is 100-per-cent attributable to class – they are no more likely to commit crimes, including rape, than ethnic Swedes of the same family income.
> 
> What also stands out is that almost all the victims of these crimes – especially sex crimes – are also foreign-born. But for a handful of headline-grabbing atrocities, it isn’t a case of swarthy men preying on white women, but of Sweden’s system turning refugees into victims of crime.
> 
> That is the real Swedish crisis. Refugee shelters are terrible, dangerous places, whoever is in them. When such shelters, then known as displaced persons camps, held millions of Europeans in the 1940s and 1950s, histories show they were at risk of sexual predation and organized attacks against Jewish refugees.
> 
> Because otherwise generous Sweden doesn’t allow refugees to seek work until they know the language, tens of thousands of people are stuck in these awful places, in similar conditions, or in welfare-dependent netherworlds.
> 
> There they become victims of violent crime, victims of economic exclusion and victims of a grotesque, viral story that portrays them as predators, entirely because of their skin colour._​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Class division is the cause of rape???? Few isolated events??
> 
> C'mon, how much of those 'personal' cases get to the mainstream media and how much are left to be quietly 'investigated'? Sure we hear mostly of the most vile cases, and even then it's mostly covered by political correctness out of fear.
> 
> Poor poor rapists, the money they get for free, the big welcome chants and the housing they get only makes them feel frustrated. Poor poor 20-something males who ran away from defending their home poor poor raping coward low-lifes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do actual crime statistics say?
> 
> And, how does what you say relate to the differing legal definitions of rape in Sweden compared to other countries?
> 
> Maybe we should stick to fact rather than emotion here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another fact is we know it's supported by those immigrant societies, who see rape of boys and girls as nothing special,  and encouraged by their religious law.
> 
> How can a woman apologize for this ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No one is apologizing for anything.
> 
> I simply want truth.  Not fear mongering or hate mongering.  These "immigrant societies" comprises a whole lot of different countries and cultures and you are claiming they all see the rape of boys and girls as nothing special and are "encouraged" by their religious law?
> 
> Again, let's see actual evidence that this is occurring in Sweden, for example.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sweden’s rape crisis isn’t what it seems
> 
> _...Behind it you’ll find the resurrection of an old, deadly appeal to fear – that people of certain skin colours are natural-born predators who threaten white women. It’s a version of lynch-mob logic that happens to appeal to the liberal and tolerant as much as the hateful and intolerant.
> 
> And it falls apart as soon as you speak to anyone knowledgeable in Sweden.
> 
> *“What we’re hearing is a very, very extreme exaggeration based on a few isolated events, and the claim that it’s related to immigration is more or less not true at all,” says Jerzy Sarnecki, a criminologist at Stockholm University who has devoted his career to the study of criminality, ethnicity and age.*
> 
> Sweden does indeed have fa*r more reported cases of sexual assault than any other country. *But it’s not because Swedes – of any colour – are very criminal. It’s because they’re very feminist. In 2005, Sweden’s Social Democratic government introduced a new sex-crime law with the world’s most expansive definition of rape.
> 
> Imagine, for example, if your boss rubbed against you in an unwanted way at work once a week for a year. In Canada, this would potentially be a case of sexual assault. Under Germany’s more limited laws, it would be zero cases. *In Sweden, it would be tallied as 52 separate cases of rape. If you engaged in a half-dozen sex acts with your spouse, then later you felt you had not given consent, in Sweden that would be classified as six cases of rape.*
> 
> The marked increase in rape cases during the 2000s is almost entirely a reflection of Sweden’s deep public interest in sexual equality and the rights of women, not of attacks by newcomers.
> 
> But aren’t refugees and immigrants responsible for a greater share of Sweden’s sexual assaults?
> 
> In a sense. Statistics show that the foreign-born in Sweden, as in most European countries, do have a higher rate of criminal charges than the native-born, in everything from shoplifting to murder (though not enough to affect the crime rate by more than a tiny margin). The opposite is true in North America, where immigrants have lower-than-average crime rates.
> 
> Why the difference? Because people who go to Sweden are poorer, and crime rates are mostly a product not of ethnicity but of class. In a 2013 analysis of 63,000 Swedish residents, Prof. Sarnecki and his colleagues found that 75 per cent of the difference in foreign-born crime is accounted for by income and neighbourhood, both indicators of poverty. Among the Swedish-born children of immigrants, the crime rate falls in half (and is almost entirely concentrated in lesser property crimes) and is 100-per-cent attributable to class – they are no more likely to commit crimes, including rape, than ethnic Swedes of the same family income.
> 
> What also stands out is that almost all the victims of these crimes – especially sex crimes – are also foreign-born. But for a handful of headline-grabbing atrocities, it isn’t a case of swarthy men preying on white women, but of Sweden’s system turning refugees into victims of crime.
> 
> That is the real Swedish crisis. Refugee shelters are terrible, dangerous places, whoever is in them. When such shelters, then known as displaced persons camps, held millions of Europeans in the 1940s and 1950s, histories show they were at risk of sexual predation and organized attacks against Jewish refugees.
> 
> Because otherwise generous Sweden doesn’t allow refugees to seek work until they know the language, tens of thousands of people are stuck in these awful places, in similar conditions, or in welfare-dependent netherworlds.
> 
> There they become victims of violent crime, victims of economic exclusion and victims of a grotesque, viral story that portrays them as predators, entirely because of their skin colour._​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Class division is the cause of rape???? Few isolated events??
> 
> C'mon, how much of those 'personal' cases get to the mainstream media and how much are left to be quietly 'investigated'? Sure we hear mostly of the most vile cases, and even then it's mostly covered by political correctness out of fear.
> 
> Poor poor rapists, the money they get for free, the big welcome chants and the housing they get only makes them feel frustrated. Poor poor 20-something males who ran away from defending their home poor poor raping coward low-lifes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do actual crime statistics say?
> 
> And, how does what you say relate to the differing legal definitions of rape in Sweden compared to other countries?
> 
> Maybe we should stick to fact rather than emotion here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Statistics can be altered to match any agenda...ask your commy-socialist friend Stalin.
> 
> Fact is we know it's not only Sweden, and fact is most cases don't reach the media. Another fact is nurses in hospitals try to convince *raped tourists not to report* or just invite a police officer to make a farce show...I personally know such cases.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Crime data provides the best available evidence - far more than testimonials and unsubstantiated claims.  In any other instance, we'd probably rely on crime data so why not here?  hmmm?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because here we can clearly see a bias in reporting those crimes.
> Sweden has the most leftist govt with a clear agenda therefore the data is being tailored.
> 
> Do you think statistics coming from an immigrant dominated cities, where the police can't defend the citizens are representing the reality on the streets?
Click to expand...



If you think there is a bias in reporting then consider this:  Sweden is the most leftist and feminist country there is, with the broadest definition of rape and the strongest protection of women's rights.  Given that, don't you suppose that any bias would be in favor of women?

If you're talking about "No Go Zones" in Sweden (your last sentence) - you do realize that is a myth?


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sweden’s rape crisis isn’t what it seems
> 
> _...Behind it you’ll find the resurrection of an old, deadly appeal to fear – that people of certain skin colours are natural-born predators who threaten white women. It’s a version of lynch-mob logic that happens to appeal to the liberal and tolerant as much as the hateful and intolerant.
> 
> And it falls apart as soon as you speak to anyone knowledgeable in Sweden.
> 
> *“What we’re hearing is a very, very extreme exaggeration based on a few isolated events, and the claim that it’s related to immigration is more or less not true at all,” says Jerzy Sarnecki, a criminologist at Stockholm University who has devoted his career to the study of criminality, ethnicity and age.*
> 
> Sweden does indeed have fa*r more reported cases of sexual assault than any other country. *But it’s not because Swedes – of any colour – are very criminal. It’s because they’re very feminist. In 2005, Sweden’s Social Democratic government introduced a new sex-crime law with the world’s most expansive definition of rape.
> 
> Imagine, for example, if your boss rubbed against you in an unwanted way at work once a week for a year. In Canada, this would potentially be a case of sexual assault. Under Germany’s more limited laws, it would be zero cases. *In Sweden, it would be tallied as 52 separate cases of rape. If you engaged in a half-dozen sex acts with your spouse, then later you felt you had not given consent, in Sweden that would be classified as six cases of rape.*
> 
> The marked increase in rape cases during the 2000s is almost entirely a reflection of Sweden’s deep public interest in sexual equality and the rights of women, not of attacks by newcomers.
> 
> But aren’t refugees and immigrants responsible for a greater share of Sweden’s sexual assaults?
> 
> In a sense. Statistics show that the foreign-born in Sweden, as in most European countries, do have a higher rate of criminal charges than the native-born, in everything from shoplifting to murder (though not enough to affect the crime rate by more than a tiny margin). The opposite is true in North America, where immigrants have lower-than-average crime rates.
> 
> Why the difference? Because people who go to Sweden are poorer, and crime rates are mostly a product not of ethnicity but of class. In a 2013 analysis of 63,000 Swedish residents, Prof. Sarnecki and his colleagues found that 75 per cent of the difference in foreign-born crime is accounted for by income and neighbourhood, both indicators of poverty. Among the Swedish-born children of immigrants, the crime rate falls in half (and is almost entirely concentrated in lesser property crimes) and is 100-per-cent attributable to class – they are no more likely to commit crimes, including rape, than ethnic Swedes of the same family income.
> 
> What also stands out is that almost all the victims of these crimes – especially sex crimes – are also foreign-born. But for a handful of headline-grabbing atrocities, it isn’t a case of swarthy men preying on white women, but of Sweden’s system turning refugees into victims of crime.
> 
> That is the real Swedish crisis. Refugee shelters are terrible, dangerous places, whoever is in them. When such shelters, then known as displaced persons camps, held millions of Europeans in the 1940s and 1950s, histories show they were at risk of sexual predation and organized attacks against Jewish refugees.
> 
> Because otherwise generous Sweden doesn’t allow refugees to seek work until they know the language, tens of thousands of people are stuck in these awful places, in similar conditions, or in welfare-dependent netherworlds.
> 
> There they become victims of violent crime, victims of economic exclusion and victims of a grotesque, viral story that portrays them as predators, entirely because of their skin colour._​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Class division is the cause of rape???? Few isolated events??
> 
> C'mon, how much of those 'personal' cases get to the mainstream media and how much are left to be quietly 'investigated'? Sure we hear mostly of the most vile cases, and even then it's mostly covered by political correctness out of fear.
> 
> Poor poor rapists, the money they get for free, the big welcome chants and the housing they get only makes them feel frustrated. Poor poor 20-something males who ran away from defending their home poor poor raping coward low-lifes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do actual crime statistics say?
> 
> And, how does what you say relate to the differing legal definitions of rape in Sweden compared to other countries?
> 
> Maybe we should stick to fact rather than emotion here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another fact is we know it's supported by those immigrant societies, who see rape of boys and girls as nothing special,  and encouraged by their religious law.
> 
> How can a woman apologize for this ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No one is apologizing for anything.
> 
> I simply want truth.  Not fear mongering or hate mongering.  These "immigrant societies" comprises a whole lot of different countries and cultures and you are claiming they all see the rape of boys and girls as nothing special and are "encouraged" by their religious law?
> 
> Again, let's see actual evidence that this is occurring in Sweden, for example.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Many different cultures"- i think there's one thing that is common to most immigrants who came illegally from the ME to Europe today.
> 
> Why isolate? Why not look at the situation in whole, Germany, Czech Republic, France, Denmark, Netherlands?
Click to expand...


According to an article I just posted, the majority of crimes committed by immigrants in Germany are by those of N. Africa, Georgia and Serbia.  Syrians and Iraqi's are disproportionately low.

Explain how you can "look at it in whole" when rape is defined very differently across countries?


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Class division is the cause of rape???? Few isolated events??
> 
> C'mon, how much of those 'personal' cases get to the mainstream media and how much are left to be quietly 'investigated'? Sure we hear mostly of the most vile cases, and even then it's mostly covered by political correctness out of fear.
> 
> Poor poor rapists, the money they get for free, the big welcome chants and the housing they get only makes them feel frustrated. Poor poor 20-something males who ran away from defending their home poor poor raping coward low-lifes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do actual crime statistics say?
> 
> And, how does what you say relate to the differing legal definitions of rape in Sweden compared to other countries?
> 
> Maybe we should stick to fact rather than emotion here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another fact is we know it's supported by those immigrant societies, who see rape of boys and girls as nothing special,  and encouraged by their religious law.
> 
> How can a woman apologize for this ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No one is apologizing for anything.
> 
> I simply want truth.  Not fear mongering or hate mongering.  These "immigrant societies" comprises a whole lot of different countries and cultures and you are claiming they all see the rape of boys and girls as nothing special and are "encouraged" by their religious law?
> 
> Again, let's see actual evidence that this is occurring in Sweden, for example.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Class division is the cause of rape???? Few isolated events??
> 
> C'mon, how much of those 'personal' cases get to the mainstream media and how much are left to be quietly 'investigated'? Sure we hear mostly of the most vile cases, and even then it's mostly covered by political correctness out of fear.
> 
> Poor poor rapists, the money they get for free, the big welcome chants and the housing they get only makes them feel frustrated. Poor poor 20-something males who ran away from defending their home poor poor raping coward low-lifes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do actual crime statistics say?
> 
> And, how does what you say relate to the differing legal definitions of rape in Sweden compared to other countries?
> 
> Maybe we should stick to fact rather than emotion here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Statistics can be altered to match any agenda...ask your commy-socialist friend Stalin.
> 
> Fact is we know it's not only Sweden, and fact is most cases don't reach the media. Another fact is nurses in hospitals try to convince *raped tourists not to report* or just invite a police officer to make a farce show...I personally know such cases.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Crime data provides the best available evidence - far more than testimonials and unsubstantiated claims.  In any other instance, we'd probably rely on crime data so why not here?  hmmm?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because here we can clearly see a bias in reporting those crimes.
> Sweden has the most leftist govt with a clear agenda therefore the data is being tailored.
> 
> Do you think statistics coming from an immigrant dominated cities, where the police can't defend the citizens are representing the reality on the streets?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If you think there is a bias in reporting then consider this:  Sweden is the most leftist and feminist country there is, with the broadest definition of rape and the strongest protection of women's rights.  Given that, don't you suppose that any bias would be in favor of women?
> 
> If you're talking about "No Go Zones" in Sweden (your last sentence) - you do realize that is a myth?
Click to expand...


In fact women in Sweden are talking about 'getting used' to the new rules, some even change their clothing and cover their blond hair to be less seen. What protection are you talking about?


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
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> rylah said:
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> Coyote said:
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> 
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> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do actual crime statistics say?
> 
> And, how does what you say relate to the differing legal definitions of rape in Sweden compared to other countries?
> 
> Maybe we should stick to fact rather than emotion here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another fact is we know it's supported by those immigrant societies, who see rape of boys and girls as nothing special,  and encouraged by their religious law.
> 
> How can a woman apologize for this ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No one is apologizing for anything.
> 
> I simply want truth.  Not fear mongering or hate mongering.  These "immigrant societies" comprises a whole lot of different countries and cultures and you are claiming they all see the rape of boys and girls as nothing special and are "encouraged" by their religious law?
> 
> Again, let's see actual evidence that this is occurring in Sweden, for example.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do actual crime statistics say?
> 
> And, how does what you say relate to the differing legal definitions of rape in Sweden compared to other countries?
> 
> Maybe we should stick to fact rather than emotion here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Statistics can be altered to match any agenda...ask your commy-socialist friend Stalin.
> 
> Fact is we know it's not only Sweden, and fact is most cases don't reach the media. Another fact is nurses in hospitals try to convince *raped tourists not to report* or just invite a police officer to make a farce show...I personally know such cases.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Crime data provides the best available evidence - far more than testimonials and unsubstantiated claims.  In any other instance, we'd probably rely on crime data so why not here?  hmmm?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because here we can clearly see a bias in reporting those crimes.
> Sweden has the most leftist govt with a clear agenda therefore the data is being tailored.
> 
> Do you think statistics coming from an immigrant dominated cities, where the police can't defend the citizens are representing the reality on the streets?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If you think there is a bias in reporting then consider this:  Sweden is the most leftist and feminist country there is, with the broadest definition of rape and the strongest protection of women's rights.  Given that, don't you suppose that any bias would be in favor of women?
> 
> If you're talking about "No Go Zones" in Sweden (your last sentence) - you do realize that is a myth?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In fact women in Sweden are talking about 'getting used' to the new rules, some even change their clothing and cover their blond hair to be less seen. What protection are you talking about?
Click to expand...


How much is hearsay and how much is factual?  There is a lot of hearsay - but it doesn't seem supported by actual data.

How much do you rely on hearsay normally?

Do you have any actual evidence that there is a bias in crime stat reporting going on in Sweden, the world's most feminist country?


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Coyote said:
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> 
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> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another fact is we know it's supported by those immigrant societies, who see rape of boys and girls as nothing special,  and encouraged by their religious law.
> 
> How can a woman apologize for this ??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one is apologizing for anything.
> 
> I simply want truth.  Not fear mongering or hate mongering.  These "immigrant societies" comprises a whole lot of different countries and cultures and you are claiming they all see the rape of boys and girls as nothing special and are "encouraged" by their religious law?
> 
> Again, let's see actual evidence that this is occurring in Sweden, for example.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Statistics can be altered to match any agenda...ask your commy-socialist friend Stalin.
> 
> Fact is we know it's not only Sweden, and fact is most cases don't reach the media. Another fact is nurses in hospitals try to convince *raped tourists not to report* or just invite a police officer to make a farce show...I personally know such cases.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Crime data provides the best available evidence - far more than testimonials and unsubstantiated claims.  In any other instance, we'd probably rely on crime data so why not here?  hmmm?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because here we can clearly see a bias in reporting those crimes.
> Sweden has the most leftist govt with a clear agenda therefore the data is being tailored.
> 
> Do you think statistics coming from an immigrant dominated cities, where the police can't defend the citizens are representing the reality on the streets?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If you think there is a bias in reporting then consider this:  Sweden is the most leftist and feminist country there is, with the broadest definition of rape and the strongest protection of women's rights.  Given that, don't you suppose that any bias would be in favor of women?
> 
> If you're talking about "No Go Zones" in Sweden (your last sentence) - you do realize that is a myth?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In fact women in Sweden are talking about 'getting used' to the new rules, some even change their clothing and cover their blond hair to be less seen. What protection are you talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How much is hearsay and how much is factual?  There is a lot of hearsay - but it doesn't seem supported by actual data.
> 
> How much do you rely on hearsay normally?
> 
> Do you have any actual evidence that there is a bias in crime stat reporting going on in Sweden, the world's most feminist country?
Click to expand...


PM says police report’s failure to mention incidents at 2014 event amounts to ‘double betrayal’, while reports emerge on New Year’s Eve attacks in Malmö


----------



## Uncensored2008

rylah said:


> Another fact is we know it's supported by those immigrant societies, who see rape of boys and girls as nothing special,  and encouraged by their religious law.
> 
> How can a woman apologize for this ??



Coyote places party above all things.

The party is closely aligned with the goals of radical Islam, so Coyote support those goals. Rape by Muslims detracts from the goal of massive immigration of Muslims into America. Remember, the #1 priority  of the democrats is to end what they call "white, Christian America."  Radical Islam is a key ally in the war democrats are waging on the nation.

Rape is a minor issue, the goal of ending America is too important worry about such things for Coyote and the other democrats.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Coyote said:


> [
> 
> Now you're just sounding like a retard.



I know, I'm here covering for rape.

Oh wait, that's you.

Hey, party is WAY too important to let a little thing like rape get in the way. The close allies of the democrats are so important to the goal of crushing the life out of "white, Christian America" that you can't worry about little things like women being raped.

Besides, your allies use rape as an object of terror, to dishearten your enemy.



> Yes, seriously.  All you offer is emotional hype.



Well, that's false.

But hey, you're here supporting rape, so I guess on the scale, you lying is minor...




> That article talks about 2 incidents, one involving 2 people and the other 1 person.
> 
> That's not exactly empirical data.



LOL;

You saw the embedded links.



> Oh geez.  More stupidy.




The Hillary DNC - openly promoting rape.

Vote Hillary, she'll import millions of Muslims so YOUR wife or daughter can experience the joy of being raped for Allah.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dear lord you are actually defending the Islamic scum who are Raping European women?
> 
> What about the German politician who lied about getting raped by a rapefugee to protect them from scrutiny?
> 
> You can gerry mander the crime stats by changing definitions and playing that game.    The same way the left tries to do gun violence in comparison to Europe.
> 
> Just try and explain why all these sexual assaults and rapes are happening in migrant areas?    This is an Islamic rapevasion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Lord,  no one is "defending" anything, just presenting facts over emotional fearmongering.
> 
> Can you provide any emperical data to support your claims that higher incidences of rape are reflected in crime stats and that immigrants are the cause of it?
> 
> You're rather silly if you think "definitions" have nothing to do with it or constitute "gerrymandering".  When the definition of what constitutes an act of rape, and how that is counted absolutely affects statistics from country to countyry.  The Op outlined that pretty succinctly.
Click to expand...


Yeah you must be correct because I must have imagined that several nations have had to come up with classes for migrants to explain to them that raping women and children isn't allowed.     They also have had to show them that Inappropriate groping isn't allowed either.     

Yup the rape epidemic in Europe has zero to do with rapefugees.... So much so the governments and local police have spent money creating these classes and as campaigns.      

If the migrant rapes weren't a problem the pro migrant governments wouldn't be covering their own tails by providing these classes and ad campaigns.   They also wouldn't be telling white European women to wear more clothing.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one is apologizing for anything.
> 
> I simply want truth.  Not fear mongering or hate mongering.  These "immigrant societies" comprises a whole lot of different countries and cultures and you are claiming they all see the rape of boys and girls as nothing special and are "encouraged" by their religious law?
> 
> Again, let's see actual evidence that this is occurring in Sweden, for example.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Crime data provides the best available evidence - far more than testimonials and unsubstantiated claims.  In any other instance, we'd probably rely on crime data so why not here?  hmmm?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because here we can clearly see a bias in reporting those crimes.
> Sweden has the most leftist govt with a clear agenda therefore the data is being tailored.
> 
> Do you think statistics coming from an immigrant dominated cities, where the police can't defend the citizens are representing the reality on the streets?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If you think there is a bias in reporting then consider this:  Sweden is the most leftist and feminist country there is, with the broadest definition of rape and the strongest protection of women's rights.  Given that, don't you suppose that any bias would be in favor of women?
> 
> If you're talking about "No Go Zones" in Sweden (your last sentence) - you do realize that is a myth?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In fact women in Sweden are talking about 'getting used' to the new rules, some even change their clothing and cover their blond hair to be less seen. What protection are you talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How much is hearsay and how much is factual?  There is a lot of hearsay - but it doesn't seem supported by actual data.
> 
> How much do you rely on hearsay normally?
> 
> Do you have any actual evidence that there is a bias in crime stat reporting going on in Sweden, the world's most feminist country?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> PM says police report’s failure to mention incidents at 2014 event amounts to ‘double betrayal’, while reports emerge on New Year’s Eve attacks in Malmö
Click to expand...


Interesting article...sounds, on one hand - very political, with each side making different claims and claims, still be substantiated, that it was covered up..  In the end - 2015 music festival, there were 15-20 claims of harrassment (note - no rape claims) in an event of over 170,000 teens.  It is also interesting to note this:

_During the 2014 festival, organisers picked up on rumours of a new phenomenon, said Roger Ticoalu, head of events at the Stockholm city administration. 


“It was a modus operandi that we had never seen before: large groups of young men who surround girls and molest them,” Ticoalu said. “In the cases where we were able to apprehend suspects, they were with a foreign background, newly arrived refugees aged 17-20, who had come to Sweden without their families.”


He said festival organisers did not have enough facts at the time to say anything definitive, and it would have been “totally irresponsible on our side to make anything public”. After the festival the organisers launched a programme with police and NGOs to encourage girls and young women to report harassment and to identify culprits, he said.

Susanna Udvardi, director of the South-east Skåne Women’s Shelter, who has also led volunteer efforts to help refugees integrate in southern Sweden, said: “Vulgar and demeaning treatment of women, including serious harassment, is far from the preserve of immigrant men from the Middle East.

A spokesperson for the festival organisers, who wished to remain anonymous, said: “We have seen different waves of this sort of violence over time. Sexual harassment is something that happens in society, so everything that is happening in society will definitely happen there.”

*The number of reports of harassment in 2015, around 15, had to be viewed in the context of 170,000 people each day in an open access area with no control over people coming and going. “Of course it was serious: 15 cases is still too many, but it is also not very much,” Gyllander said.*_​
Question is - does this support the claim of "rape epidemics"?

Other points of interest - the culprits, those arrested or identified, seem to mostly belong to refugees classified as unaccompanied minors - youths who arrived without their parents.  That's a volatile group regardless.

Swedish police accused of covering up sex attacks by refugees at music festival
_Responding to the January incident in an editorial published by the Swedish magazine Mänsklig Säkerhet, Martina Lindberg, a former lecturer on women, peace, and security matters at Stockholm's Swedish Defense University, *notes a skewed gender imbalance among asylum seekers in Sweden, with an estimated two-thirds of refugees being male*. However, she argues that while the Swedish government should acknowledge this imbalance and adapt appropriate integration measures, it should not allow individual sex crimes to form what she calls "the basis for a simplified approach to the asylum-seeking man." 

"*Violence against women in the public sphere has been more or less constant in recent years," she wrote. "It seems as if the debate today depends more on who is assumed to be the perpetrator."*

Indeed, according to official statistics on file with The Swedish Crime Survey, t*he sexual violence rate in Sweden has remained about the same between 2005 and 2014. In fact, it actually decreased by .3 percent between 2013 and 2014.* That said, the country has the highest rate of rape in Europe, a statistic that has been partially attributed to both Swedish law, wherein rape is given a wider definition than in other countries, as well as a higher tendency among women to report the crimes to the police.

"It is much more complicated than the way the media are normally presenting it," Jerzy Sarnecki, a professor of criminology at Stockholm University, told The Daily Beast. "According to studies which I have done on general crime, most of the differences in recorded crimes between immigrants and Swedes are explained by socioeconomic factors. It doesn't mean of course, that one, a few, or several other incidents of that kind [sexual assaults perpetuated by immigrants] didn't happen. "


The xenophobic fear of the "other" is not limited to Sweden, certainly. In the United States, presumed Republican nominee Donald Trump made headlines around the world after describing Mexican immigrants as "rapists."


"One of the ghosts of all kinds of racial prejudices is allegations of sexual crimes against women," Sarnecki said, noting that in the 19th and 20th centuries many African-American men were executed based on (often unproven) allegations of raping white women. "It's an old, very well-used argument against immigrants."_​


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dear lord you are actually defending the Islamic scum who are Raping European women?
> 
> What about the German politician who lied about getting raped by a rapefugee to protect them from scrutiny?
> 
> You can gerry mander the crime stats by changing definitions and playing that game.    The same way the left tries to do gun violence in comparison to Europe.
> 
> Just try and explain why all these sexual assaults and rapes are happening in migrant areas?    This is an Islamic rapevasion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Lord,  no one is "defending" anything, just presenting facts over emotional fearmongering.
> 
> Can you provide any emperical data to support your claims that higher incidences of rape are reflected in crime stats and that immigrants are the cause of it?
> 
> You're rather silly if you think "definitions" have nothing to do with it or constitute "gerrymandering".  When the definition of what constitutes an act of rape, and how that is counted absolutely affects statistics from country to countyry.  The Op outlined that pretty succinctly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah you must be correct because I must have imagined that several nations have had to come up with classes for migrants to explain to them that raping women and children isn't allowed.     They also have had to show them that Inappropriate groping isn't allowed either.
> 
> Yup the rape epidemic in Europe has zero to do with rapefugees.... So much so the governments and local police have spent money creating these classes and as campaigns.
> 
> If the migrant rapes weren't a problem the pro migrant governments wouldn't be covering their own tails by providing these classes and ad campaigns.   They also wouldn't be telling white European women to wear more clothing.
Click to expand...


Hey, just provide data to support your points. 

Many western country provide classes on the new culture to immigrants, including how women are treated.  This has gone on for years.  The only reason they are offering more is Europe, for the first time, has a much larger number of immigrants to deal with and to assimilate.

According to Swedish crime reports over the last decade, rape has remained at a fairly consistent level and even gone down.  Where is this "rape epidemic" you refer to?


----------



## Coyote

Uncensored2008 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> Now you're just sounding like a retard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know, I'm here covering for rape.
> 
> Oh wait, that's you.
> 
> Hey, party is WAY too important to let a little thing like rape get in the way. The close allies of the democrats are so important to the goal of crushing the life out of "white, Christian America" that you can't worry about little things like women being raped.
> 
> Besides, your allies use rape as an object of terror, to dishearten your enemy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, seriously.  All you offer is emotional hype.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, that's false.
> 
> But hey, you're here supporting rape, so I guess on the scale, you lying is minor...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That article talks about 2 incidents, one involving 2 people and the other 1 person.
> 
> That's not exactly empirical data.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL;
> 
> You saw the embedded links.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh geez.  More stupidy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Hillary DNC - openly promoting rape.
> 
> Vote Hillary, she'll import millions of Muslims so YOUR wife or daughter can experience the joy of being raped for Allah.
Click to expand...



All that and you still can't offer up any actual data...just nya nya nya you support rape nya nya nya.

Ever consider growing up?


----------



## Coyote

Uncensored2008 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another fact is we know it's supported by those immigrant societies, who see rape of boys and girls as nothing special,  and encouraged by their religious law.
> 
> How can a woman apologize for this ??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote places party above all things.
> 
> The party is closely aligned with the goals of radical Islam, so Coyote support those goals. Rape by Muslims detracts from the goal of massive immigration of Muslims into America. Remember, the #1 priority  of the democrats is to end what they call "white, Christian America."  Radical Islam is a key ally in the war democrats are waging on the nation.
> 
> Rape is a minor issue, the goal of ending America is too important worry about such things for Coyote and the other democrats.
Click to expand...



Now you're wandering into Conspiracy Theoryland.


----------



## Ridgerunner

Coyote said:


> If you're talking about "No Go Zones" in Sweden (your last sentence) - you do realize that is a myth?



I call 

Police: Yes, there ARE No-Go Zones in Sweden

Swedish police: 55 official no-go zones

Swedish Police Release Extensive Report Detailing Control Of 55 'No-Go Zones' By Muslim Criminal Gangs


----------



## Tommy Tainant

The majority of claims are invented by right wing trash in order to inflame public opinion against immigrants.

Hoaxmap

The Case of the Murdered Goats: Exploring Germany's Far-Right Rumor Mill - SPIEGEL ONLINE

Time and again we see made up stories fall apart when the detail is checked.

The crime here is that genuine cases get ignored because they are submerged by hysterical stories that even children would not tell.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dear lord you are actually defending the Islamic scum who are Raping European women?
> 
> What about the German politician who lied about getting raped by a rapefugee to protect them from scrutiny?
> 
> You can gerry mander the crime stats by changing definitions and playing that game.    The same way the left tries to do gun violence in comparison to Europe.
> 
> Just try and explain why all these sexual assaults and rapes are happening in migrant areas?    This is an Islamic rapevasion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Lord,  no one is "defending" anything, just presenting facts over emotional fearmongering.
> 
> Can you provide any emperical data to support your claims that higher incidences of rape are reflected in crime stats and that immigrants are the cause of it?
> 
> You're rather silly if you think "definitions" have nothing to do with it or constitute "gerrymandering".  When the definition of what constitutes an act of rape, and how that is counted absolutely affects statistics from country to countyry.  The Op outlined that pretty succinctly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah you must be correct because I must have imagined that several nations have had to come up with classes for migrants to explain to them that raping women and children isn't allowed.     They also have had to show them that Inappropriate groping isn't allowed either.
> 
> Yup the rape epidemic in Europe has zero to do with rapefugees.... So much so the governments and local police have spent money creating these classes and as campaigns.
> 
> If the migrant rapes weren't a problem the pro migrant governments wouldn't be covering their own tails by providing these classes and ad campaigns.   They also wouldn't be telling white European women to wear more clothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey, just provide data to support your points.
> 
> Many western country provide classes on the new culture to immigrants, including how women are treated.  This has gone on for years.  The only reason they are offering more is Europe, for the first time, has a much larger number of immigrants to deal with and to assimilate.
> 
> According to Swedish crime reports over the last decade, rape has remained at a fairly consistent level and even gone down.  Where is this "rape epidemic" you refer to?
Click to expand...



You do realize that Sweden has suffered from an Islamic infestation for quite some time now.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because here we can clearly see a bias in reporting those crimes.
> Sweden has the most leftist govt with a clear agenda therefore the data is being tailored.
> 
> Do you think statistics coming from an immigrant dominated cities, where the police can't defend the citizens are representing the reality on the streets?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you think there is a bias in reporting then consider this:  Sweden is the most leftist and feminist country there is, with the broadest definition of rape and the strongest protection of women's rights.  Given that, don't you suppose that any bias would be in favor of women?
> 
> If you're talking about "No Go Zones" in Sweden (your last sentence) - you do realize that is a myth?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In fact women in Sweden are talking about 'getting used' to the new rules, some even change their clothing and cover their blond hair to be less seen. What protection are you talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How much is hearsay and how much is factual?  There is a lot of hearsay - but it doesn't seem supported by actual data.
> 
> How much do you rely on hearsay normally?
> 
> Do you have any actual evidence that there is a bias in crime stat reporting going on in Sweden, the world's most feminist country?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> PM says police report’s failure to mention incidents at 2014 event amounts to ‘double betrayal’, while reports emerge on New Year’s Eve attacks in Malmö
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting article...sounds, on one hand - very political, with each side making different claims and claims, still be substantiated, that it was covered up..  In the end - 2015 music festival, there were 15-20 claims of harrassment (note - no rape claims) in an event of over 170,000 teens.  It is also interesting to note this:
> 
> _During the 2014 festival, organisers picked up on rumours of a new phenomenon, said Roger Ticoalu, head of events at the Stockholm city administration.
> 
> 
> “It was a modus operandi that we had never seen before: large groups of young men who surround girls and molest them,” Ticoalu said. “In the cases where we were able to apprehend suspects, they were with a foreign background, newly arrived refugees aged 17-20, who had come to Sweden without their families.”
> 
> 
> He said festival organisers did not have enough facts at the time to say anything definitive, and it would have been “totally irresponsible on our side to make anything public”. After the festival the organisers launched a programme with police and NGOs to encourage girls and young women to report harassment and to identify culprits, he said.
> 
> Susanna Udvardi, director of the South-east Skåne Women’s Shelter, who has also led volunteer efforts to help refugees integrate in southern Sweden, said: “Vulgar and demeaning treatment of women, including serious harassment, is far from the preserve of immigrant men from the Middle East.
> 
> A spokesperson for the festival organisers, who wished to remain anonymous, said: “We have seen different waves of this sort of violence over time. Sexual harassment is something that happens in society, so everything that is happening in society will definitely happen there.”
> 
> *The number of reports of harassment in 2015, around 15, had to be viewed in the context of 170,000 people each day in an open access area with no control over people coming and going. “Of course it was serious: 15 cases is still too many, but it is also not very much,” Gyllander said.*_​
> Question is - does this support the claim of "rape epidemics"?
> 
> Other points of interest - the culprits, those arrested or identified, seem to mostly belong to refugees classified as unaccompanied minors - youths who arrived without their parents.  That's a volatile group regardless.
> 
> Swedish police accused of covering up sex attacks by refugees at music festival
> _Responding to the January incident in an editorial published by the Swedish magazine Mänsklig Säkerhet, Martina Lindberg, a former lecturer on women, peace, and security matters at Stockholm's Swedish Defense University, *notes a skewed gender imbalance among asylum seekers in Sweden, with an estimated two-thirds of refugees being male*. However, she argues that while the Swedish government should acknowledge this imbalance and adapt appropriate integration measures, it should not allow individual sex crimes to form what she calls "the basis for a simplified approach to the asylum-seeking man."
> 
> "*Violence against women in the public sphere has been more or less constant in recent years," she wrote. "It seems as if the debate today depends more on who is assumed to be the perpetrator."*
> 
> Indeed, according to official statistics on file with The Swedish Crime Survey, t*he sexual violence rate in Sweden has remained about the same between 2005 and 2014. In fact, it actually decreased by .3 percent between 2013 and 2014.* That said, the country has the highest rate of rape in Europe, a statistic that has been partially attributed to both Swedish law, wherein rape is given a wider definition than in other countries, as well as a higher tendency among women to report the crimes to the police.
> 
> "It is much more complicated than the way the media are normally presenting it," Jerzy Sarnecki, a professor of criminology at Stockholm University, told The Daily Beast. "According to studies which I have done on general crime, most of the differences in recorded crimes between immigrants and Swedes are explained by socioeconomic factors. It doesn't mean of course, that one, a few, or several other incidents of that kind [sexual assaults perpetuated by immigrants] didn't happen. "
> 
> 
> The xenophobic fear of the "other" is not limited to Sweden, certainly. In the United States, presumed Republican nominee Donald Trump made headlines around the world after describing Mexican immigrants as "rapists."
> 
> 
> "One of the ghosts of all kinds of racial prejudices is allegations of sexual crimes against women," Sarnecki said, noting that in the 19th and 20th centuries many African-American men were executed based on (often unproven) allegations of raping white women. "It's an old, very well-used argument against immigrants."_​
Click to expand...


You asked me about evidence for a bias in reporting those crimes.

I gave you a good, balanced report showing totally different opinions, however you cherry-picked the comments that were more apologetic, from the organizers who *"*_*did not have enough facts", *_but did have all the interest in promoting their production further.

Should we look at the facts in in the article as YOU asked?

_1."Sweden’s *prime minister* has condemned a “double betrayal” of women after allegations that* police covered up sexual harassment* by recent immigrants at a music festival in Stockholm
“These are so-called refugee youths, specifically from Afghanistan. *Several of the gang were arrested for sexual molestation*,” one police memo said.
*Yet the official police report* on the five-day festival attended by 170,000 young people aged mainly 13-19 *made no mention of sexual harassment or assaults.*
The prime minister, Stefan Löfven, said this amounted to a double betrayal since* no one was prosecuted for the crimes and the police did not make them public."
*
 2."*Officials say* *nearly all of the suspects* in the attacks were “people with an *immigrant background”.* Police and the media have been accused of *deliberately under-reporting the events *in order not to encourage anti-immigrant sentiment."_

_3. "*The pattern of harassment was repeated at the festival in 2015...*_
_It is police *policy not to comment on the ethnic background* of perpetrators, he said."
_
So what's your argument, that we better forget about sexual crimes and look at crimes overall to suit your agenda? Or that 15-20 rapes each festival isn't epidemic?


----------



## montelatici

Unfortunately, Muslim men are sexually repressed from birth.  Arabs especially.  They see a female's ankle and they get a hard on.  It's their backward culture that is the problem.  That has to change if they want to live in the West.  The women have to stop covering themselves and have to start as a start.


----------



## rylah

Interesting thing, but I haven't found any report of rape in Wacken Metal festival, considering that female partial nudity and mosh-pits are regular things there...

Maybe it's not even the organization or the effectiveness of police-
JUST DIFFERENT MEN,,but that's a totally different topic


----------



## Ridgerunner

Tommy Tainant said:


> The majority of claims are invented by right wing trash in order to inflame public opinion against immigrants.



Tommy, Tommy. Tommy poor deaf dumb and blind boy... Throwing the apology crap around for the rapists again? Go slam a few pints and go to sleep...


----------



## DarkFury




----------



## Tilly

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dear lord you are actually defending the Islamic scum who are Raping European women?
> 
> What about the German politician who lied about getting raped by a rapefugee to protect them from scrutiny?
> 
> You can gerry mander the crime stats by changing definitions and playing that game.    The same way the left tries to do gun violence in comparison to Europe.
> 
> Just try and explain why all these sexual assaults and rapes are happening in migrant areas?    This is an Islamic rapevasion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Lord,  no one is "defending" anything, just presenting facts over emotional fearmongering.
> 
> Can you provide any emperical data to support your claims that higher incidences of rape are reflected in crime stats and that immigrants are the cause of it?
> 
> You're rather silly if you think "definitions" have nothing to do with it or constitute "gerrymandering".  When the definition of what constitutes an act of rape, and how that is counted absolutely affects statistics from country to countyry.  The Op outlined that pretty succinctly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah you must be correct because I must have imagined that several nations have had to come up with classes for migrants to explain to them that raping women and children isn't allowed.     They also have had to show them that Inappropriate groping isn't allowed either.
> 
> Yup the rape epidemic in Europe has zero to do with rapefugees.... So much so the governments and local police have spent money creating these classes and as campaigns.
> 
> If the migrant rapes weren't a problem the pro migrant governments wouldn't be covering their own tails by providing these classes and ad campaigns.   They also wouldn't be telling white European women to wear more clothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey, just provide data to support your points.
> 
> Many western country provide classes on the new culture to immigrants, including how women are treated.  This has gone on for years.  The only reason they are offering more is Europe, for the first time, has a much larger number of immigrants to deal with and to assimilate.
> 
> According to Swedish crime reports over the last decade, rape has remained at a fairly consistent level and even gone down.  Where is this "rape epidemic" you refer to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize that Sweden has suffered from an Islamic infestation for quite some time now.
Click to expand...

Maybe Freja would care to throw some light on the subject.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

"How Anti-Immigration Activists Misuse Rape Statistics"

And how bigots with an unwarranted hatred of Muslims misuse rape statistics.


----------



## Tommy Tainant

Tilly said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dear lord you are actually defending the Islamic scum who are Raping European women?
> 
> What about the German politician who lied about getting raped by a rapefugee to protect them from scrutiny?
> 
> You can gerry mander the crime stats by changing definitions and playing that game.    The same way the left tries to do gun violence in comparison to Europe.
> 
> Just try and explain why all these sexual assaults and rapes are happening in migrant areas?    This is an Islamic rapevasion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Lord,  no one is "defending" anything, just presenting facts over emotional fearmongering.
> 
> Can you provide any emperical data to support your claims that higher incidences of rape are reflected in crime stats and that immigrants are the cause of it?
> 
> You're rather silly if you think "definitions" have nothing to do with it or constitute "gerrymandering".  When the definition of what constitutes an act of rape, and how that is counted absolutely affects statistics from country to countyry.  The Op outlined that pretty succinctly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah you must be correct because I must have imagined that several nations have had to come up with classes for migrants to explain to them that raping women and children isn't allowed.     They also have had to show them that Inappropriate groping isn't allowed either.
> 
> Yup the rape epidemic in Europe has zero to do with rapefugees.... So much so the governments and local police have spent money creating these classes and as campaigns.
> 
> If the migrant rapes weren't a problem the pro migrant governments wouldn't be covering their own tails by providing these classes and ad campaigns.   They also wouldn't be telling white European women to wear more clothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey, just provide data to support your points.
> 
> Many western country provide classes on the new culture to immigrants, including how women are treated.  This has gone on for years.  The only reason they are offering more is Europe, for the first time, has a much larger number of immigrants to deal with and to assimilate.
> 
> According to Swedish crime reports over the last decade, rape has remained at a fairly consistent level and even gone down.  Where is this "rape epidemic" you refer to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize that Sweden has suffered from an Islamic infestation for quite some time now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe Freja would care to throw some light on the subject.
Click to expand...

Freja is a 50 year old bloke with a cellar full of nazi memorabilia.

Only joking of course, her views would shed light on all this.


----------



## Ridgerunner

Tommy Tainant said:


> Freja is a 50 year old bloke with a cellar full of nazi memorabilia



Like your collection of naked Neville Chamberlain pics?


----------



## DarkFury

Ridgerunner said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Freja is a 50 year old bloke with a cellar full of nazi memorabilia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like your collection of naked Neville Chamberlain pics?
Click to expand...

*I just love these threads started by rape apologists.
They could give a damn less about the victims.*


----------



## Dogmaphobe

DarkFury said:


> Ridgerunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Freja is a 50 year old bloke with a cellar full of nazi memorabilia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like your collection of naked Neville Chamberlain pics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *I just love these threads started by rape apologists.
> They could give a damn less about the victims.*
Click to expand...



 There are any number of low functioning leftists out there who despise liberalism with such a vengeance that they run interference for Islamists, no matter WHAT they do.

  You would almost think what has happened in Rotherham, Cologne, Brussels and all over Europe HASN'T happened, so thoroughly do they stand in complete solidarity with Islamic rape Jihad.

 They are sick, sick individuals, indeed.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Uncensored2008 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another fact is we know it's supported by those immigrant societies, who see rape of boys and girls as nothing special,  and encouraged by their religious law.
> 
> How can a woman apologize for this ??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote places party above all things.
> 
> The party is closely aligned with the goals of radical Islam, so Coyote support those goals. Rape by Muslims detracts from the goal of massive immigration of Muslims into America. Remember, the #1 priority  of the democrats is to end what they call "white, Christian America."  Radical Islam is a key ally in the war democrats are waging on the nation.
> 
> Rape is a minor issue, the goal of ending America is too important worry about such things for Coyote and the other democrats.
Click to expand...



 What I find interesting is how Coyote claims she gets a few odd jobs here and there trimming dog's toenails, which certainly explains why she has 8-10 hours a day to devote to het internet Jihad, but it sure doesn't explain how she manages to make any sort of living.

 I think the "party" in question isn't the Democratic, but something more along the lines of C.A.I.R. or the Muslim Brotherhood  -- well, as if there was really any differences between the two.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Dogmaphobe said:


> [
> 
> 
> What I find interesting is how Coyote claims she gets a few odd jobs here and there trimming dog's toenails, which certainly explains why she has 8-10 hours a day to devote to het internet Jihad, but it sure doesn't explain how she manages to make any sort of living.
> 
> I think the "party" in question isn't the Democratic, but something more along the lines of C.A.I.R. or the Muslim Brotherhood  -- well, as if there was really any differences between the two.



I'm not convinced there IS a difference between the democrats and CAIR at this point.


----------



## Tilly

Only idiots or islamopologists 'can't' see the pattern emerging all over Europe.

*Teaching migrants how to behave*
*
Migrants arriving in Finland are being offered classes on Finnish values and how to behave towards women. Concerned about a rise in the number of sexual assaults in the country, *the government wants to make sure that people from very conservative cultures know what to expect in their new home. ...

Johanna is one of those energetic, animated teachers whose cheerful energy lures even the most reluctant pupil into engaging with the lesson. ...

..."So in Finland," she says softly, "you can't buy a wife. A woman will only be your wife if she wants to be - because here women are men's equals."...

...
you can go out to the disco with a woman here," adds Johanna brightly. "Although remember, even if she dances with you very closely and is wearing a short skirt, that doesn't mean she wants to have sex with you."

A Somali teenager pulls his woolly hat over his ears and cradles his head in his hands as if his brain can't cope with all this new information. ...

[Poor dear]


...
It's difficult to talk about,’ [Helsinki's deputy chief of police, Ilkka Koskimaki] admits as we drive in a patrol car through the icy streets of the city. ‘But we have to tell the truth. Usually we would not reveal the ethnic background of a suspect, *but these incidents, where groups of young foreign men,’ as he puts it, ‘surround a girl in a public place and harass her have become a phenomenon.’*”


Teaching migrants how to behave - BBC News


----------



## Tilly

That women engage in lying for Islam over what is happening in Europe is particularly egregious. Tammy now has a pal in his rapefugee denial.
He, incidentally, laughed at Freja when she recounted her own traumatic experience on another thread. Scum.

*Migrant rape fears spread across Europe: Women told not to go out at night alone after assaults carried out in Sweden, Finland, Germany, Austria and Switzerland amid warnings gangs are co-ordinating attacks*

*Sweden has issued warnings to women to be wary of potential attacks *
*15 young women have reported being groped by men in Kalmar, Sweden*
*Austrian police have come under fire after claims attacks were covered-up*
*Finnish police say they have information that the attacks are co-ordinated*
*Vienna's police chief advises women not to go out on the streets alone*
*Cologne police chief Wolfgang Albers relieved of his duties over handling of New Year's Eve sex attacks *
*Finnish police warn of plans by migrants to commit sexual assaults*


----------



## Tilly

Finnish police warn of plans by migrants to commit sexual assaults

*Security authorities are growing increasingly concerned by the rising number of sex attacks by gangs of migrants which appear to be spreading across Europe.*

Finland and Sweden today became the latest European countries to issue warnings to women to be wary of the threat of sex attacks following fresh reports of sexual assaults in the last week, while the Viennese police chief adviced women not to go outside alone in Vienna.
*
The warnings come as reports emerged that Austrian and German police tried to cover-up the issue over fears of reprisal attacks on asylum seekers and damage to the countries' tourist trade....*


----------



## Tilly

Finnish police warn of plans by migrants to commit sexual assaults

...
Finnish police said today that they had been tipped off about plans by groups of asylum seekers to sexually harass women following an unusually high level of sexual harassment cases in Helsinki.

'*There hasn't been this kind of harassment on previous New Year's Eves or other occasions for that matter... This is a completely new phenomenon in Helsinki,' said deputy police chief Ilkka Koskimaki.*

Police in Germany are investigating more than 150 cases across five German cities where women have been attacked by the 'organised Arab or North African gangs, police said.

Cologne has been at the centre of the problem with around 106 reported cases of assault by migrant gangs since New Year's Eve.

*Following criticism of the police's handling of the violent clashes in Cologne, the police chief of Cologne has been relieved of his duties today*.

Police chief Wolfgang Albers, 60, was informed by the state interior minister Ralf Jaeger that he would be given early retirement, a source told Reuters


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> 
> What I find interesting is how Coyote claims she gets a few odd jobs here and there trimming dog's toenails, which certainly explains why she has 8-10 hours a day to devote to het internet Jihad, but it sure doesn't explain how she manages to make any sort of living.
> 
> I think the "party" in question isn't the Democratic, but something more along the lines of C.A.I.R. or the Muslim Brotherhood  -- well, as if there was really any differences between the two.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not convinced there IS a difference between the democrats and CAIR at this point.
Click to expand...



Hillary's coronation sure made it look that way, didn't it?


----------



## Coyote

Ridgerunner said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you're talking about "No Go Zones" in Sweden (your last sentence) - you do realize that is a myth?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I call
> 
> Police: Yes, there ARE No-Go Zones in Sweden
> 
> Swedish police: 55 official no-go zones
> 
> Swedish Police Release Extensive Report Detailing Control Of 55 'No-Go Zones' By Muslim Criminal Gangs
Click to expand...


And I match your 

Sharia Law Muslim 'No-Go' Zones
Debunking the Myth of Muslim-Only Zones in Major European Cities
In supposed no-go zone, British Muslims, Christians say no to fanatics
How Did The Muslim 'No-Go Zones' Myth Get Started Anyway?
Paris moves to sue Fox News for false reporting on Muslim 'no-go zones'
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/19/w...im-only-areas-in-england-and-france.html?_r=0
Comment: The myth of Muslim no-go areas is being used to turn us against one another


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dear lord you are actually defending the Islamic scum who are Raping European women?
> 
> What about the German politician who lied about getting raped by a rapefugee to protect them from scrutiny?
> 
> You can gerry mander the crime stats by changing definitions and playing that game.    The same way the left tries to do gun violence in comparison to Europe.
> 
> Just try and explain why all these sexual assaults and rapes are happening in migrant areas?    This is an Islamic rapevasion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Lord,  no one is "defending" anything, just presenting facts over emotional fearmongering.
> 
> Can you provide any emperical data to support your claims that higher incidences of rape are reflected in crime stats and that immigrants are the cause of it?
> 
> You're rather silly if you think "definitions" have nothing to do with it or constitute "gerrymandering".  When the definition of what constitutes an act of rape, and how that is counted absolutely affects statistics from country to countyry.  The Op outlined that pretty succinctly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah you must be correct because I must have imagined that several nations have had to come up with classes for migrants to explain to them that raping women and children isn't allowed.     They also have had to show them that Inappropriate groping isn't allowed either.
> 
> Yup the rape epidemic in Europe has zero to do with rapefugees.... So much so the governments and local police have spent money creating these classes and as campaigns.
> 
> If the migrant rapes weren't a problem the pro migrant governments wouldn't be covering their own tails by providing these classes and ad campaigns.   They also wouldn't be telling white European women to wear more clothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey, just provide data to support your points.
> 
> Many western country provide classes on the new culture to immigrants, including how women are treated.  This has gone on for years.  The only reason they are offering more is Europe, for the first time, has a much larger number of immigrants to deal with and to assimilate.
> 
> According to Swedish crime reports over the last decade, rape has remained at a fairly consistent level and even gone down.  Where is this "rape epidemic" you refer to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize that Sweden has suffered from an Islamic infestation for quite some time now.
Click to expand...


What I realize is that you hate Muslims.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you think there is a bias in reporting then consider this:  Sweden is the most leftist and feminist country there is, with the broadest definition of rape and the strongest protection of women's rights.  Given that, don't you suppose that any bias would be in favor of women?
> 
> If you're talking about "No Go Zones" in Sweden (your last sentence) - you do realize that is a myth?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In fact women in Sweden are talking about 'getting used' to the new rules, some even change their clothing and cover their blond hair to be less seen. What protection are you talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How much is hearsay and how much is factual?  There is a lot of hearsay - but it doesn't seem supported by actual data.
> 
> How much do you rely on hearsay normally?
> 
> Do you have any actual evidence that there is a bias in crime stat reporting going on in Sweden, the world's most feminist country?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> PM says police report’s failure to mention incidents at 2014 event amounts to ‘double betrayal’, while reports emerge on New Year’s Eve attacks in Malmö
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting article...sounds, on one hand - very political, with each side making different claims and claims, still be substantiated, that it was covered up..  In the end - 2015 music festival, there were 15-20 claims of harrassment (note - no rape claims) in an event of over 170,000 teens.  It is also interesting to note this:
> 
> _During the 2014 festival, organisers picked up on rumours of a new phenomenon, said Roger Ticoalu, head of events at the Stockholm city administration.
> 
> 
> “It was a modus operandi that we had never seen before: large groups of young men who surround girls and molest them,” Ticoalu said. “In the cases where we were able to apprehend suspects, they were with a foreign background, newly arrived refugees aged 17-20, who had come to Sweden without their families.”
> 
> 
> He said festival organisers did not have enough facts at the time to say anything definitive, and it would have been “totally irresponsible on our side to make anything public”. After the festival the organisers launched a programme with police and NGOs to encourage girls and young women to report harassment and to identify culprits, he said.
> 
> Susanna Udvardi, director of the South-east Skåne Women’s Shelter, who has also led volunteer efforts to help refugees integrate in southern Sweden, said: “Vulgar and demeaning treatment of women, including serious harassment, is far from the preserve of immigrant men from the Middle East.
> 
> A spokesperson for the festival organisers, who wished to remain anonymous, said: “We have seen different waves of this sort of violence over time. Sexual harassment is something that happens in society, so everything that is happening in society will definitely happen there.”
> 
> *The number of reports of harassment in 2015, around 15, had to be viewed in the context of 170,000 people each day in an open access area with no control over people coming and going. “Of course it was serious: 15 cases is still too many, but it is also not very much,” Gyllander said.*_​
> Question is - does this support the claim of "rape epidemics"?
> 
> Other points of interest - the culprits, those arrested or identified, seem to mostly belong to refugees classified as unaccompanied minors - youths who arrived without their parents.  That's a volatile group regardless.
> 
> Swedish police accused of covering up sex attacks by refugees at music festival
> _Responding to the January incident in an editorial published by the Swedish magazine Mänsklig Säkerhet, Martina Lindberg, a former lecturer on women, peace, and security matters at Stockholm's Swedish Defense University, *notes a skewed gender imbalance among asylum seekers in Sweden, with an estimated two-thirds of refugees being male*. However, she argues that while the Swedish government should acknowledge this imbalance and adapt appropriate integration measures, it should not allow individual sex crimes to form what she calls "the basis for a simplified approach to the asylum-seeking man."
> 
> "*Violence against women in the public sphere has been more or less constant in recent years," she wrote. "It seems as if the debate today depends more on who is assumed to be the perpetrator."*
> 
> Indeed, according to official statistics on file with The Swedish Crime Survey, t*he sexual violence rate in Sweden has remained about the same between 2005 and 2014. In fact, it actually decreased by .3 percent between 2013 and 2014.* That said, the country has the highest rate of rape in Europe, a statistic that has been partially attributed to both Swedish law, wherein rape is given a wider definition than in other countries, as well as a higher tendency among women to report the crimes to the police.
> 
> "It is much more complicated than the way the media are normally presenting it," Jerzy Sarnecki, a professor of criminology at Stockholm University, told The Daily Beast. "According to studies which I have done on general crime, most of the differences in recorded crimes between immigrants and Swedes are explained by socioeconomic factors. It doesn't mean of course, that one, a few, or several other incidents of that kind [sexual assaults perpetuated by immigrants] didn't happen. "
> 
> 
> The xenophobic fear of the "other" is not limited to Sweden, certainly. In the United States, presumed Republican nominee Donald Trump made headlines around the world after describing Mexican immigrants as "rapists."
> 
> 
> "One of the ghosts of all kinds of racial prejudices is allegations of sexual crimes against women," Sarnecki said, noting that in the 19th and 20th centuries many African-American men were executed based on (often unproven) allegations of raping white women. "It's an old, very well-used argument against immigrants."_​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You asked me about evidence for a bias in reporting those crimes.
> 
> I gave you a good, balanced report showing totally different opinions, however you cherry-picked the comments that were more apologetic, from the organizers who *"*_*did not have enough facts", *_but did have all the interest in promoting their production further.
> 
> Should we look at the facts in in the article as YOU asked?
> 
> _1."Sweden’s *prime minister* has condemned a “double betrayal” of women after allegations that* police covered up sexual harassment* by recent immigrants at a music festival in Stockholm
> “These are so-called refugee youths, specifically from Afghanistan. *Several of the gang were arrested for sexual molestation*,” one police memo said.
> *Yet the official police report* on the five-day festival attended by 170,000 young people aged mainly 13-19 *made no mention of sexual harassment or assaults.*
> The prime minister, Stefan Löfven, said this amounted to a double betrayal since* no one was prosecuted for the crimes and the police did not make them public."
> *
> 2."*Officials say* *nearly all of the suspects* in the attacks were “people with an *immigrant background”.* Police and the media have been accused of *deliberately under-reporting the events *in order not to encourage anti-immigrant sentiment."_
> 
> _3. "*The pattern of harassment was repeated at the festival in 2015...*
> It is police *policy not to comment on the ethnic background* of perpetrators, he said."
> _
> So what's your argument, that we better forget about sexual crimes and look at crimes overall to suit your agenda? Or that 15-20 rapes each festival isn't epidemic?
Click to expand...


Are you not cherry picking here?


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Interesting thing, but I haven't found any report of rape in Wacken Metal festival, considering that female partial nudity and mosh-pits are regular things there...
> 
> Maybe it's not even the organization or the effectiveness of police-
> JUST DIFFERENT MEN,,but that's a totally different topic



According to the article you posted, there were no reports of rape at the Stockholm music festival.


----------



## Tilly

Tattoos to counter the 'growing issue of sex attacks' that isn't really happening. Lol.

*'NO’ German girls given TEMPORARY TATTOOS to help prevent swimming pool sex attacks*
*YOUNG girls are being given temporary tattoos in swimming pools spelling out word “NO” after a spate of sex attacks at public baths. *
By ZOIE O'BRIEN
PUBLISHED: 11:31, Mon, Aug 22, 2016 | UPDATED: 11:46, Mon, Aug 22, 2016







GETTY/ NC

Temporary tattoos are being handed to young German girls over sex assaults
The small press-on designs also sport angel-like wings and are part of a new prevention campaign launched in the Bodensee district in the state of Baden-Wurttemberg.

Veronika Wascher-Goggerle, the Women's and Family representative of the district, is behind the launch and said the press-on tattoos would also help raise awareness over the growing issue of sex attacks in swimming pools.

The Bodenseekreis is famous for its bathing and boasts numerous indoor and outdoor swimming pools.

Alleged sex attacks by migrants have caused heated debate in the area over the last few months and some pools are hiring extra security - or even banning asylum seekers altogether. ....

‘NO’ German girls given TEMPORARY TATTOOS to help prevent swimming pool sex attacks


----------



## skye

For the welfare Islamic invaders in Europe.....for the religion of Piss/peace

if a woman doesn't wear a hijab ....

she is asking to be raped.

Throw them out!  


Throw all these Middle Age savages...these terrorists  out of Europe!


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> What I realize is that you hate Muslims.




 How typical -- if a poster does not support the rape of women and children as a sign of cultural dominance, they "hate Islam".

 The question really shouldn't be why anybody would hate rape Jihad, but why you so obviously DON'T.


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I realize is that you hate Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How typical -- if a poster does not support the rape of women and children as a sign of cultural dominance, they "hate Islam".
> 
> The question really shouldn't be why anybody would hate rape Jihad, but why you so obviously DON'T.
Click to expand...


Aren't you so cute...as I recall...you're the guy who decided to choose a debunked poll from a disreputable hate site in lieu of a reputable poll from PEW, a source you've used before - simply because you hate American Muslims so much, you can't stand to tell the truth.

Gotta love the hypocrisy.  Been to Stormfront lately?  I hear they're missing an idiot


----------



## Coyote

Tilly said:


> Tattoos to counter the 'growing issue of sex attacks' that isn't really happening. Lol.
> 
> *'NO’ German girls given TEMPORARY TATTOOS to help prevent swimming pool sex attacks*
> *YOUNG girls are being given temporary tattoos in swimming pools spelling out word “NO” after a spate of sex attacks at public baths. *
> By ZOIE O'BRIEN
> PUBLISHED: 11:31, Mon, Aug 22, 2016 | UPDATED: 11:46, Mon, Aug 22, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GETTY/ NC
> 
> Temporary tattoos are being handed to young German girls over sex assaults
> The small press-on designs also sport angel-like wings and are part of a new prevention campaign launched in the Bodensee district in the state of Baden-Wurttemberg.
> 
> Veronika Wascher-Goggerle, the Women's and Family representative of the district, is behind the launch and said the press-on tattoos would also help raise awareness over the growing issue of sex attacks in swimming pools.
> 
> The Bodenseekreis is famous for its bathing and boasts numerous indoor and outdoor swimming pools.
> 
> Alleged sex attacks by migrants have caused heated debate in the area over the last few months and some pools are hiring extra security - or even banning asylum seekers altogether. ....
> 
> ‘NO’ German girls given TEMPORARY TATTOOS to help prevent swimming pool sex attacks



Alleged.


----------



## skye

These Muslim savages would want to make it legal when they take over Europe, to rape women there.

I feel so sad for everybody in what was once    such a great continent!

It's all  over  The Middle Ages/Dark Ages for them again.  

Will Europeans fight those Islamic worms?

Hope so.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

skye said:


> For the welfare Islamic invaders in Europe.....for the religion of Piss/peace
> 
> if a woman doesn't wear a hijab ....
> 
> she is asking to be raped.
> 
> Throw them out!
> 
> 
> Throw all these Middle Age savages...these terrorists  out of Europe!




 Does it get any more disgusting than Coyote's continuous mocking via her indicating she thinks Muslims raping women and children is FUNNY?


----------



## skye

Dogmaphobe said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the welfare Islamic invaders in Europe.....for the religion of Piss/peace
> 
> if a woman doesn't wear a hijab ....
> 
> she is asking to be raped.
> 
> Throw them out!
> 
> 
> Throw all these Middle Age savages...these terrorists  out of Europe!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does it get any more disgusting than Coyote's continuous mocking via her indicating she thinks Muslims raping women and children is FUNNY?
Click to expand...



I don't know why she does that.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

skye said:


> I don't know why she does that.



 The lack of a human soul is my current working theory.


----------



## Tilly

‘NO’ German girls given TEMPORARY TATTOOS to help prevent swimming pool sex attacks

....
Since the beginning of 2016 dozens of swimming pool sex attacks have been reported to German police.

Swimming centre Maximare in Hamm has had to hire security staff after at least six assault since the turn of the year.

Last month police in *Lower Saxony warned there is a "new phenomenon" of "sporadic group sexual assaults" in pools across the state and have accused "non German" men of the attacks. *

Germany recently introduced a new 'No Means No' law amid increasing levels of sexual assaults by migrants.


----------



## Weatherman2020

Coyote said:


> ...with a little science over hype
> 
> 
> *How Anti-Immigration Activists Misuse Rape Statistics*
> _The Internet has brought an enormous mass of knowledge to the fingertips of everyone with a computer, smartphone or tablet. Never before have so many individuals been so close to true scientific facts about the world, from fun facts about animals to the latest crime statistics. Large communities with blogs, forums and social media groups have grown up around a wide variety of special interests and it has become a powerful tool for communication, cooperation and the advancement of human knowledge.
> *
> 
> However, this has also led to the creation of ideologically isolated Internet communities, where faulty claims and misunderstandings of statistics and empirical evidence gets repeated in an endless echo chamber and all refutations are either ignored, misrepresented or subjected to ideologically driven rejection, often with stale references to supposed “political correctness”, as if that was a statistically mature rebuttal.*
> 
> 
> This article will show that according to crime victim surveys, *the actual rate of sex crimes has been more or less unchanged in Sweden between 2005 and 2014, despite the fact that immigration has increased during the same time period. *Instead, the increasing rates of reported rapes are influenced by expansion of the legal rape definition, an increase in the tendency to report rapes, police efforts to classify each individual rape as a separate crime and their tendency to classify any sex crime that could potentially be rape as rape. It will also demonstrate that reported rates between countries such as Sweden and Denmark cannot be naively compared to do the large difference in legal rape definition and police registration methods._
> 
> _
> ....
> *Conclusion*
> 
> 
> The moral of the story is that you should not get your information about crime statistics from shady blogs who make trivial statistical errors (like confusing reported and actual crimes) or Youtube videos*. Instead, go to the original scientific papers or crime victim surveys, read them and understand the methodology, results, limitations and conclusions. *There are no shortcuts to substantial knowledge.
> 
> 
> The increasing rates of reported rape in Sweden is primarily caused by a repeated expansion of the rape definition, the fact that police is consciously reported all rapes as individual reports and an observed increase in the tendency to report rape. The differences between rates of reported rape between e. g. Sweden and Denmark is caused by differences in rape definition, differences in registration methods and efforts to rape all sex crimes that might be rape as rape.
> 
> 
> In the end, it is doubly ironic that anti-immigration activists say that they refuse to read mainstream media because of its bias, yet (1) are strongly influenced by the increase in sensationalist coverage of violent crime by mainstream media and (2) are so willing to believe claims made by “alternative” media that are unsupported and often contradicted by actual crime victim survey results._​
> *Edited to correct link.*


The lefts war on women continues.


----------



## Coyote

Weatherman2020 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...with a little science over hype
> 
> 
> *How Anti-Immigration Activists Misuse Rape Statistics*
> _The Internet has brought an enormous mass of knowledge to the fingertips of everyone with a computer, smartphone or tablet. Never before have so many individuals been so close to true scientific facts about the world, from fun facts about animals to the latest crime statistics. Large communities with blogs, forums and social media groups have grown up around a wide variety of special interests and it has become a powerful tool for communication, cooperation and the advancement of human knowledge.
> *
> 
> However, this has also led to the creation of ideologically isolated Internet communities, where faulty claims and misunderstandings of statistics and empirical evidence gets repeated in an endless echo chamber and all refutations are either ignored, misrepresented or subjected to ideologically driven rejection, often with stale references to supposed “political correctness”, as if that was a statistically mature rebuttal.*
> 
> 
> This article will show that according to crime victim surveys, *the actual rate of sex crimes has been more or less unchanged in Sweden between 2005 and 2014, despite the fact that immigration has increased during the same time period. *Instead, the increasing rates of reported rapes are influenced by expansion of the legal rape definition, an increase in the tendency to report rapes, police efforts to classify each individual rape as a separate crime and their tendency to classify any sex crime that could potentially be rape as rape. It will also demonstrate that reported rates between countries such as Sweden and Denmark cannot be naively compared to do the large difference in legal rape definition and police registration methods._
> 
> _
> ....
> *Conclusion*
> 
> 
> The moral of the story is that you should not get your information about crime statistics from shady blogs who make trivial statistical errors (like confusing reported and actual crimes) or Youtube videos*. Instead, go to the original scientific papers or crime victim surveys, read them and understand the methodology, results, limitations and conclusions. *There are no shortcuts to substantial knowledge.
> 
> 
> The increasing rates of reported rape in Sweden is primarily caused by a repeated expansion of the rape definition, the fact that police is consciously reported all rapes as individual reports and an observed increase in the tendency to report rape. The differences between rates of reported rape between e. g. Sweden and Denmark is caused by differences in rape definition, differences in registration methods and efforts to rape all sex crimes that might be rape as rape.
> 
> 
> In the end, it is doubly ironic that anti-immigration activists say that they refuse to read mainstream media because of its bias, yet (1) are strongly influenced by the increase in sensationalist coverage of violent crime by mainstream media and (2) are so willing to believe claims made by “alternative” media that are unsupported and often contradicted by actual crime victim survey results._​
> *Edited to correct link.*
> 
> 
> 
> The lefts war on women continues.
Click to expand...


Funny how presenting and asking for facts constitutes a "war on women".


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Tilly said:


> ‘NO’ German girls given TEMPORARY TATTOOS to help prevent swimming pool sex attacks
> 
> ....
> Since the beginning of 2016 dozens of swimming pool sex attacks have been reported to German police.
> 
> Swimming centre Maximare in Hamm has had to hire security staff after at least six assault since the turn of the year.
> 
> Last month police in *Lower Saxony warned there is a "new phenomenon" of "sporadic group sexual assaults" in pools across the state and have accused "non German" men of the attacks. *
> 
> Germany recently introduced a new 'No Means No' law amid increasing levels of sexual assaults by migrants.




 Be careful, there, Tilly.

A senior moderator here thinks Muslim men raping European women and children is funny.

She keeps indicting such.


----------



## Weatherman2020

Coyote said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...with a little science over hype
> 
> 
> *How Anti-Immigration Activists Misuse Rape Statistics*
> _The Internet has brought an enormous mass of knowledge to the fingertips of everyone with a computer, smartphone or tablet. Never before have so many individuals been so close to true scientific facts about the world, from fun facts about animals to the latest crime statistics. Large communities with blogs, forums and social media groups have grown up around a wide variety of special interests and it has become a powerful tool for communication, cooperation and the advancement of human knowledge.
> *
> 
> However, this has also led to the creation of ideologically isolated Internet communities, where faulty claims and misunderstandings of statistics and empirical evidence gets repeated in an endless echo chamber and all refutations are either ignored, misrepresented or subjected to ideologically driven rejection, often with stale references to supposed “political correctness”, as if that was a statistically mature rebuttal.*
> 
> 
> This article will show that according to crime victim surveys, *the actual rate of sex crimes has been more or less unchanged in Sweden between 2005 and 2014, despite the fact that immigration has increased during the same time period. *Instead, the increasing rates of reported rapes are influenced by expansion of the legal rape definition, an increase in the tendency to report rapes, police efforts to classify each individual rape as a separate crime and their tendency to classify any sex crime that could potentially be rape as rape. It will also demonstrate that reported rates between countries such as Sweden and Denmark cannot be naively compared to do the large difference in legal rape definition and police registration methods._
> 
> _
> ....
> *Conclusion*
> 
> 
> The moral of the story is that you should not get your information about crime statistics from shady blogs who make trivial statistical errors (like confusing reported and actual crimes) or Youtube videos*. Instead, go to the original scientific papers or crime victim surveys, read them and understand the methodology, results, limitations and conclusions. *There are no shortcuts to substantial knowledge.
> 
> 
> The increasing rates of reported rape in Sweden is primarily caused by a repeated expansion of the rape definition, the fact that police is consciously reported all rapes as individual reports and an observed increase in the tendency to report rape. The differences between rates of reported rape between e. g. Sweden and Denmark is caused by differences in rape definition, differences in registration methods and efforts to rape all sex crimes that might be rape as rape.
> 
> 
> In the end, it is doubly ironic that anti-immigration activists say that they refuse to read mainstream media because of its bias, yet (1) are strongly influenced by the increase in sensationalist coverage of violent crime by mainstream media and (2) are so willing to believe claims made by “alternative” media that are unsupported and often contradicted by actual crime victim survey results._​
> *Edited to correct link.*
> 
> 
> 
> The lefts war on women continues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how presenting and asking for facts constitutes a "war on women".
Click to expand...

Yeah, Merkal is so anti immigration.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/07/11/cologne-germany-sexual-assaults/86939142/


----------



## Tilly

Dogmaphobe said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> ‘NO’ German girls given TEMPORARY TATTOOS to help prevent swimming pool sex attacks
> 
> ....
> Since the beginning of 2016 dozens of swimming pool sex attacks have been reported to German police.
> 
> Swimming centre Maximare in Hamm has had to hire security staff after at least six assault since the turn of the year.
> 
> Last month police in *Lower Saxony warned there is a "new phenomenon" of "sporadic group sexual assaults" in pools across the state and have accused "non German" men of the attacks. *
> 
> Germany recently introduced a new 'No Means No' law amid increasing levels of sexual assaults by migrants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful, there, Tilly.
> 
> A senior moderator here thinks Muslim men raping European women and children is funny.
> 
> She keeps indicting such.
Click to expand...

I know. Just when you think she can sink no lower, she manages! Utterly disgusting, but not exactly surprising.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

He stepped across the room. There was a memory hole in the opposite wall. O'Brien lifted the grating. Unseen, the frail slip of paper was whirling away on the current of warm air; it was vanishing in a flash of flame. O'Brien turned away from the wall.  'Ashes,' he said. 'Not even identifiable ashes. Dust. It does not exist. It never existed.'  'But it did exist! It does exist! It exists in memory. I remember it. You remember it.'  'I do not remember it,' said O'Brien.  Winston's heart sank. That was doublethink. He had a feeling of deadly helplessness. If he could have been certain that O'Brien was lying, it would not have seemed to matter. But it was perfectly possible that O'Brien had really forgotten the photograph. And if so, then already he would have forgotten his denial of remembering it, and forgotten the act of forgetting. How could one be sure that it was simple trickery? Perhaps that lunatic dislocation in the mind could really happen: that was the thought that defeated him.  O'Brien was looking down at him speculatively. More than ever he had the air of a teacher taking pains with a wayward but promising child.  'There is a Party slogan dealing with the control of the past,' he said. 'Repeat it, if you please.'  '"Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past,"' repeated Winston obediently.  '"Who controls the present controls the past,"' said O'Brien, nodding his head with slow approval. 'Is it your opinion, Winston, that the past has real existence?'  Again the feeling of helplessness descended upon Winston. His eyes flitted towards the dial. He not only did not know whether 'yes' or 'no' was the answer that would save him from pain; he did not even know which answer he believed to be the true one.  O'Brien smiled faintly. 'You are no metaphysician, Winston,' he said. 'Until this moment you had never considered what is meant by existence. I will put it more precisely. Does the past exist concretely, in space? Is there somewhere or other a place, a world of solid objects, where the past is still happening?'  'No.'  'Then where does the past exist, if at all?'  'In records. It is written down.'  'In records. And --?'  'In the mind. In human memories.'  'In memory. Very well, then. We, the Party, control all records, and we control all memories. Then we control the past, do we not?'


----------



## Tilly

Seems women are 'sexually harassed on a regular basis'. Must be their imagination. Lol.

HomeNews
*‘We can’t arrest them’: German police officer speaks out on refugees*
Published time: 12 Jan, 2016 13:01
Get short URL




© Kai Pfaffenbach / Reuters

A German police officer told media that law enforcement cannot efficiently tackle crime among refugees without being accused of excessive violence or racism, while many dangerous incidents are played down or kept secret to maintain desirable statistics.
TrendsEU refugee & migrant influx
The federal police officer, referred to as Bernd K., has shared his experiences with Bild newspaper, having worked for six months at Munich train station and also in the _“refugee hotspots”_ of Passau and Freilassing in Bavaria.

_“At first, mostly families with children – who looked educated and spoke English – were coming here,”_ the officer told. _“*Meanwhile, 95 percent of refugees are now single men.” ..

...
Referring to abuse and harassment against women, similar to those that took place in Cologne on New Year’s Eve, the officer said such cases are widespread in Bavaria as well.

“At the train station, women are sexually harassed and offended on regular basis. When we speak of an entry ban [to the area], they would shout on us: ‘You are not my police. You are a racist’.”*_

However, when a refugee needs to be controlled, the police cannot arrest him even for a while, the officer said, *citing “superior orders” prescribing not to use coercive actions. “Our domestic rule is – better to let him run away.” ...*

Vienna’s police chief under fire after advising women not to walk alone at night


...Police authorities in Germany and neighboring Austria and Sweden came under fire following an increased number of sexual abuse cases against women by suspects of allegedly _“North African”_ or “Middle Eastern” descent. The situation before and after New Year’s Eve mass assaults nearby Cologne train station and in the city center was at first reported by local police as a _“peaceful atmosphere,”_ prompting the Cologne police chief to resign.

*After continuous reports of sexual assaults against women in the Austrian city of Salzburg, Vienna Police Chief Gerhard Purstl told Krone newspaper “Women should in general not go out on the streets at night alone, they should avoid suspicious looking areas” in an interview that spurred a wave of criticism.*

Sexual assaults on New Year’s Eve took place in a number of European countries. The largest number of assaults was recorded in Cologne, where 516 criminal cases have been filed with Cologne Police, who said that these included two cases of rape.

‘We can’t arrest them’: German police officer speaks out on refugees


----------



## Coyote

Tilly said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> ‘NO’ German girls given TEMPORARY TATTOOS to help prevent swimming pool sex attacks
> 
> ....
> Since the beginning of 2016 dozens of swimming pool sex attacks have been reported to German police.
> 
> Swimming centre Maximare in Hamm has had to hire security staff after at least six assault since the turn of the year.
> 
> Last month police in *Lower Saxony warned there is a "new phenomenon" of "sporadic group sexual assaults" in pools across the state and have accused "non German" men of the attacks. *
> 
> Germany recently introduced a new 'No Means No' law amid increasing levels of sexual assaults by migrants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful, there, Tilly.
> 
> A senior moderator here thinks Muslim men raping European women and children is funny.
> 
> She keeps indicting such.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know. Just when you think she can sink no lower, she manages! Utterly disgusting, but not exactly surprising.
Click to expand...


Coming from a woman who thinks slaughtering Muslim children (because they might be indoctrinated) is a good idea...well, utterly disgusting but not exactly surprising pretty much fits


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> ‘NO’ German girls given TEMPORARY TATTOOS to help prevent swimming pool sex attacks
> 
> ....
> Since the beginning of 2016 dozens of swimming pool sex attacks have been reported to German police.
> 
> Swimming centre Maximare in Hamm has had to hire security staff after at least six assault since the turn of the year.
> 
> Last month police in *Lower Saxony warned there is a "new phenomenon" of "sporadic group sexual assaults" in pools across the state and have accused "non German" men of the attacks. *
> 
> Germany recently introduced a new 'No Means No' law amid increasing levels of sexual assaults by migrants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful, there, Tilly.
> 
> A senior moderator here thinks Muslim men raping European women and children is funny.
> 
> She keeps indicting such.
Click to expand...



So thin skinned... you just think everyone should take your every highly educated "opinion" as fact eh?


----------



## Coyote

Tilly said:


> ‘NO’ German girls given TEMPORARY TATTOOS to help prevent swimming pool sex attacks
> 
> ....
> Since the beginning of 2016 dozens of swimming pool sex attacks have been reported to German police.
> 
> Swimming centre Maximare in Hamm has had to hire security staff after at least six assault since the turn of the year.
> 
> Last month police in *Lower Saxony warned there is a "new phenomenon" of "sporadic group sexual assaults" in pools across the state and have accused "non German" men of the attacks. *
> 
> Germany recently introduced a new 'No Means No' law amid increasing levels of sexual assaults by migrants.




How many actual swimming pool attacks?  Six?  Must be those little Muslim kids you want to slaughter.


----------



## Tilly

Dogmaphobe said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> ‘NO’ German girls given TEMPORARY TATTOOS to help prevent swimming pool sex attacks
> 
> ....
> Since the beginning of 2016 dozens of swimming pool sex attacks have been reported to German police.
> 
> Swimming centre Maximare in Hamm has had to hire security staff after at least six assault since the turn of the year.
> 
> Last month police in *Lower Saxony warned there is a "new phenomenon" of "sporadic group sexual assaults" in pools across the state and have accused "non German" men of the attacks. *
> 
> Germany recently introduced a new 'No Means No' law amid increasing levels of sexual assaults by migrants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful, there, Tilly.
> 
> A senior moderator here thinks Muslim men raping European women and children is funny.
> 
> She keeps indicting such.
Click to expand...

Well, there are Muslim women who have publically approved of Muslim men waging rape jihad on non Muslim women, using the Quran for justification, so not surprising really. Utterly Disgusting though.


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ridgerunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Freja is a 50 year old bloke with a cellar full of nazi memorabilia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like your collection of naked Neville Chamberlain pics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *I just love these threads started by rape apologists.
> They could give a damn less about the victims.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There are any number of low functioning leftists out there who despise liberalism with such a vengeance that they run interference for Islamists, no matter WHAT they do.
> 
> You would almost think what has happened in Rotherham, Cologne, Brussels and all over Europe HASN'T happened, so thoroughly do they stand in complete solidarity with Islamic rape Jihad.
> 
> They are sick, sick individuals, indeed.
Click to expand...



What's sick is people who can seem to provide facts or crime statistics to support you're claim.  Got any Silly Tilly?


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> So thin skinned... you just think everyone should take your every highly educated "opinion" as fact eh?




I just point out what you are up to, filth.

It seems to be working, too, if your  little spate of doubling down on your use of the funny button to show your solidarity with rape jihad is any indication.

I am not the only one here who sees right through you, and it shows.  You are in a veritable froth of desperation and others find you just as pathetic and evil as do I


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> ‘  NO’ German girls given TEMPORARY TATTOOS to help prevent swimming pool sex attacks
> 
> ....
> Since the beginning of 2016 dozens of swimming pool sex attacks have been reported to German police.
> 
> Swimming centre Maximare in Hamm has had to hire security staff after at least six assault since the turn of the year.
> 
> Last month police in *Lower Saxony warned there is a "new phenomenon" of "sporadic group sexual assaults" in pools across the state and have accused "non German" men of the attacks. *
> 
> Germany recently introduced a new 'No Means No' law amid increasing levels of sexual assaults by migrants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> ‘NO’ German girls given TEMPORARY TATTOOS to help prevent swimming pool sex attacks
> 
> ....
> Since the beginning of 2016 dozens of swimming pool sex attacks have been reported to German police.
> 
> Swimming centre Maximare in Hamm has had to hire security staff after at least six assault since the turn of the year.
> 
> Last month police in *Lower Saxony warned there is a "new phenomenon" of "sporadic group sexual assaults" in pools across the state and have accused "non German" men of the attacks. *
> 
> Germany recently introduced a new 'No Means No' law amid increasing levels of sexual assaults by migrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful, there, Tilly.
> 
> A senior moderator here thinks Muslim men raping European women and children is funny.
> 
> She keeps indicting such.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So thin skinned... you just think everyone should take your every highly educated "opinion" as fact eh?[/QUOTE I just point out what you are up to, filth.
> 
> It seems to be working, too, if your  little spate of doubling down on your use of the funny button to show your solidarity with rape jihad is any indication.
> 
> I am not the only one here who sees right through you, and it shows.  You are in a veritable froth of desperation and others find you just as pathetic and evil as do I.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


So, tell us then, Mr. Embodiment of All that is Liberal, he who is the judge of all us poor inferior unwashed illiberal masses...

Why did you choose to use a discredited poll, from a disreputable site, about the views of American Muslims when you could have used the polling source you typically used, that is quite reputable - PEW ?  Could it be that the Pew poll completely contradicted the claims you were making about American Muslims?  You know...when you deliberately CHOOSE to pick a poll from a hate site rather than a reputable site, the taint sticks to you.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> ‘  NO’ German girls given TEMPORARY TATTOOS to help prevent swimming pool sex attacks
> 
> ....
> Since the beginning of 2016 dozens of swimming pool sex attacks have been reported to German police.
> 
> Swimming centre Maximare in Hamm has had to hire security staff after at least six assault since the turn of the year.
> 
> Last month police in *Lower Saxony warned there is a "new phenomenon" of "sporadic group sexual assaults" in pools across the state and have accused "non German" men of the attacks. *
> 
> Germany recently introduced a new 'No Means No' law amid increasing levels of sexual assaults by migrants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> ‘NO’ German girls given TEMPORARY TATTOOS to help prevent swimming pool sex attacks
> 
> ....
> Since the beginning of 2016 dozens of swimming pool sex attacks have been reported to German police.
> 
> Swimming centre Maximare in Hamm has had to hire security staff after at least six assault since the turn of the year.
> 
> Last month police in *Lower Saxony warned there is a "new phenomenon" of "sporadic group sexual assaults" in pools across the state and have accused "non German" men of the attacks. *
> 
> Germany recently introduced a new 'No Means No' law amid increasing levels of sexual assaults by migrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful, there, Tilly.
> 
> A senior moderator here thinks Muslim men raping European women and children is funny.
> 
> She keeps indicting such.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So thin skinned... you just think everyone should take your every highly educated "opinion" as fact eh?[/QUOTE I just point out what you are up to, filth.
> 
> It seems to be working, too, if your  little spate of doubling down on your use of the funny button to show your solidarity with rape jihad is any indication.
> 
> I am not the only one here who sees right through you, and it shows.  You are in a veritable froth of desperation and others find you just as pathetic and evil as do I.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, tell us then, Mr. Embodiment of All that is Liberal, he who is the judge of all us poor inferior unwashed illiberal masses...
> 
> Why did you choose to use a discredited poll, from a disreputable site, about the views of American Muslims when you could have used the polling source you typically used, that is quite reputable - PEW ?  Could it be that the Pew poll completely contradicted the claims you were making about American Muslims?  You know...when you deliberately CHOOSE to pick a poll from a hate site rather than a reputable site, the taint sticks to you.
Click to expand...



 You may be poor, inferior and unwashed, but I would NEVER call you liberal.

Liberals do not think raping children is as funny as you do, especially when it is motivated by ethnic and cultural hatred.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact women in Sweden are talking about 'getting used' to the new rules, some even change their clothing and cover their blond hair to be less seen. What protection are you talking about?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How much is hearsay and how much is factual?  There is a lot of hearsay - but it doesn't seem supported by actual data.
> 
> How much do you rely on hearsay normally?
> 
> Do you have any actual evidence that there is a bias in crime stat reporting going on in Sweden, the world's most feminist country?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> PM says police report’s failure to mention incidents at 2014 event amounts to ‘double betrayal’, while reports emerge on New Year’s Eve attacks in Malmö
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting article...sounds, on one hand - very political, with each side making different claims and claims, still be substantiated, that it was covered up..  In the end - 2015 music festival, there were 15-20 claims of harrassment (note - no rape claims) in an event of over 170,000 teens.  It is also interesting to note this:
> 
> _During the 2014 festival, organisers picked up on rumours of a new phenomenon, said Roger Ticoalu, head of events at the Stockholm city administration.
> 
> 
> “It was a modus operandi that we had never seen before: large groups of young men who surround girls and molest them,” Ticoalu said. “In the cases where we were able to apprehend suspects, they were with a foreign background, newly arrived refugees aged 17-20, who had come to Sweden without their families.”
> 
> 
> He said festival organisers did not have enough facts at the time to say anything definitive, and it would have been “totally irresponsible on our side to make anything public”. After the festival the organisers launched a programme with police and NGOs to encourage girls and young women to report harassment and to identify culprits, he said.
> 
> Susanna Udvardi, director of the South-east Skåne Women’s Shelter, who has also led volunteer efforts to help refugees integrate in southern Sweden, said: “Vulgar and demeaning treatment of women, including serious harassment, is far from the preserve of immigrant men from the Middle East.
> 
> A spokesperson for the festival organisers, who wished to remain anonymous, said: “We have seen different waves of this sort of violence over time. Sexual harassment is something that happens in society, so everything that is happening in society will definitely happen there.”
> 
> *The number of reports of harassment in 2015, around 15, had to be viewed in the context of 170,000 people each day in an open access area with no control over people coming and going. “Of course it was serious: 15 cases is still too many, but it is also not very much,” Gyllander said.*_​
> Question is - does this support the claim of "rape epidemics"?
> 
> Other points of interest - the culprits, those arrested or identified, seem to mostly belong to refugees classified as unaccompanied minors - youths who arrived without their parents.  That's a volatile group regardless.
> 
> Swedish police accused of covering up sex attacks by refugees at music festival
> _Responding to the January incident in an editorial published by the Swedish magazine Mänsklig Säkerhet, Martina Lindberg, a former lecturer on women, peace, and security matters at Stockholm's Swedish Defense University, *notes a skewed gender imbalance among asylum seekers in Sweden, with an estimated two-thirds of refugees being male*. However, she argues that while the Swedish government should acknowledge this imbalance and adapt appropriate integration measures, it should not allow individual sex crimes to form what she calls "the basis for a simplified approach to the asylum-seeking man."
> 
> "*Violence against women in the public sphere has been more or less constant in recent years," she wrote. "It seems as if the debate today depends more on who is assumed to be the perpetrator."*
> 
> Indeed, according to official statistics on file with The Swedish Crime Survey, t*he sexual violence rate in Sweden has remained about the same between 2005 and 2014. In fact, it actually decreased by .3 percent between 2013 and 2014.* That said, the country has the highest rate of rape in Europe, a statistic that has been partially attributed to both Swedish law, wherein rape is given a wider definition than in other countries, as well as a higher tendency among women to report the crimes to the police.
> 
> "It is much more complicated than the way the media are normally presenting it," Jerzy Sarnecki, a professor of criminology at Stockholm University, told The Daily Beast. "According to studies which I have done on general crime, most of the differences in recorded crimes between immigrants and Swedes are explained by socioeconomic factors. It doesn't mean of course, that one, a few, or several other incidents of that kind [sexual assaults perpetuated by immigrants] didn't happen. "
> 
> 
> The xenophobic fear of the "other" is not limited to Sweden, certainly. In the United States, presumed Republican nominee Donald Trump made headlines around the world after describing Mexican immigrants as "rapists."
> 
> 
> "One of the ghosts of all kinds of racial prejudices is allegations of sexual crimes against women," Sarnecki said, noting that in the 19th and 20th centuries many African-American men were executed based on (often unproven) allegations of raping white women. "It's an old, very well-used argument against immigrants."_​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You asked me about evidence for a bias in reporting those crimes.
> 
> I gave you a good, balanced report showing totally different opinions, however you cherry-picked the comments that were more apologetic, from the organizers who *"*_*did not have enough facts", *_but did have all the interest in promoting their production further.
> 
> Should we look at the facts in in the article as YOU asked?
> 
> _1."Sweden’s *prime minister* has condemned a “double betrayal” of women after allegations that* police covered up sexual harassment* by recent immigrants at a music festival in Stockholm
> “These are so-called refugee youths, specifically from Afghanistan. *Several of the gang were arrested for sexual molestation*,” one police memo said.
> *Yet the official police report* on the five-day festival attended by 170,000 young people aged mainly 13-19 *made no mention of sexual harassment or assaults.*
> The prime minister, Stefan Löfven, said this amounted to a double betrayal since* no one was prosecuted for the crimes and the police did not make them public."
> *
> 2."*Officials say* *nearly all of the suspects* in the attacks were “people with an *immigrant background”.* Police and the media have been accused of *deliberately under-reporting the events *in order not to encourage anti-immigrant sentiment."_
> 
> _3. "*The pattern of harassment was repeated at the festival in 2015...*
> It is police *policy not to comment on the ethnic background* of perpetrators, he said."
> _
> So what's your argument, that we better forget about sexual crimes and look at crimes overall to suit your agenda? Or that 15-20 rapes each festival isn't epidemic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you not cherry picking here?
Click to expand...


Really? You think your infantile games of a sore child should work?

You asked for facts about the reporting bias, you got 'em, I'm just balancing your vile tactics of cherry picking opinions by people who are closer to the rapists and those who *"did not have enough facts"* or had all the monetary interest.

So is it ok for rape apologists to cherry-pick non-factual comments but not ok for the sane to pick factual comments by PM and Police spokesmen?


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting thing, but I haven't found any report of rape in Wacken Metal festival, considering that female partial nudity and mosh-pits are regular things there...
> 
> Maybe it's not even the organization or the effectiveness of police-
> JUST DIFFERENT MEN,,but that's a totally different topic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to the article you posted, there were no reports of rape at the Stockholm music festival.
Click to expand...


First of all I showed you how reports and statistics being tailored, second all rapes start by harassment and molestations- I'm not going to get to your level of digging into small technicalities. Any coerced sexual violence is rape, *or the beginning of it*- and that's the only way sane MEN have to see it.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> Ridgerunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you're talking about "No Go Zones" in Sweden (your last sentence) - you do realize that is a myth?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I call
> 
> Police: Yes, there ARE No-Go Zones in Sweden
> 
> Swedish police: 55 official no-go zones
> 
> Swedish Police Release Extensive Report Detailing Control Of 55 'No-Go Zones' By Muslim Criminal Gangs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And I match your
> 
> Sharia Law Muslim 'No-Go' Zones
> Debunking the Myth of Muslim-Only Zones in Major European Cities
> In supposed no-go zone, British Muslims, Christians say no to fanatics
> How Did The Muslim 'No-Go Zones' Myth Get Started Anyway?
> Paris moves to sue Fox News for false reporting on Muslim 'no-go zones'
> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/19/w...im-only-areas-in-england-and-france.html?_r=0
> Comment: The myth of Muslim no-go areas is being used to turn us against one another
Click to expand...


Using your planted bait and switch, nice. stay on topic you MOD


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dear lord you are actually defending the Islamic scum who are Raping European women?
> 
> What about the German politician who lied about getting raped by a rapefugee to protect them from scrutiny?
> 
> You can gerry mander the crime stats by changing definitions and playing that game.    The same way the left tries to do gun violence in comparison to Europe.
> 
> Just try and explain why all these sexual assaults and rapes are happening in migrant areas?    This is an Islamic rapevasion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Lord,  no one is "defending" anything, just presenting facts over emotional fearmongering.
> 
> Can you provide any emperical data to support your claims that higher incidences of rape are reflected in crime stats and that immigrants are the cause of it?
> 
> You're rather silly if you think "definitions" have nothing to do with it or constitute "gerrymandering".  When the definition of what constitutes an act of rape, and how that is counted absolutely affects statistics from country to countyry.  The Op outlined that pretty succinctly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah you must be correct because I must have imagined that several nations have had to come up with classes for migrants to explain to them that raping women and children isn't allowed.     They also have had to show them that Inappropriate groping isn't allowed either.
> 
> Yup the rape epidemic in Europe has zero to do with rapefugees.... So much so the governments and local police have spent money creating these classes and as campaigns.
> 
> If the migrant rapes weren't a problem the pro migrant governments wouldn't be covering their own tails by providing these classes and ad campaigns.   They also wouldn't be telling white European women to wear more clothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey, just provide data to support your points.
> 
> Many western country provide classes on the new culture to immigrants, including how women are treated.  This has gone on for years.  The only reason they are offering more is Europe, for the first time, has a much larger number of immigrants to deal with and to assimilate.
> 
> According to Swedish crime reports over the last decade, rape has remained at a fairly consistent level and even gone down.  Where is this "rape epidemic" you refer to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize that Sweden has suffered from an Islamic infestation for quite some time now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What I realize is that you hate Muslims.
Click to expand...


No but I do hate anyone who oppresses women and children.    I think anyone who does that are worthless animals.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tattoos to counter the 'growing issue of sex attacks' that isn't really happening. Lol.
> 
> *'NO’ German girls given TEMPORARY TATTOOS to help prevent swimming pool sex attacks*
> *YOUNG girls are being given temporary tattoos in swimming pools spelling out word “NO” after a spate of sex attacks at public baths. *
> By ZOIE O'BRIEN
> PUBLISHED: 11:31, Mon, Aug 22, 2016 | UPDATED: 11:46, Mon, Aug 22, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GETTY/ NC
> 
> Temporary tattoos are being handed to young German girls over sex assaults
> The small press-on designs also sport angel-like wings and are part of a new prevention campaign launched in the Bodensee district in the state of Baden-Wurttemberg.
> 
> Veronika Wascher-Goggerle, the Women's and Family representative of the district, is behind the launch and said the press-on tattoos would also help raise awareness over the growing issue of sex attacks in swimming pools.
> 
> The Bodenseekreis is famous for its bathing and boasts numerous indoor and outdoor swimming pools.
> 
> Alleged sex attacks by migrants have caused heated debate in the area over the last few months and some pools are hiring extra security - or even banning asylum seekers altogether. ....
> 
> ‘NO’ German girls given TEMPORARY TATTOOS to help prevent swimming pool sex attacks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alleged.
Click to expand...


Glad to see you think so little of women and children that you constantly make any excuses for these sexual predators.    

I bet you were here posting the salon articles by the Pedo's trying to normalize that behavior.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> ‘NO’ German girls given TEMPORARY TATTOOS to help prevent swimming pool sex attacks
> 
> ....
> Since the beginning of 2016 dozens of swimming pool sex attacks have been reported to German police.
> 
> Swimming centre Maximare in Hamm has had to hire security staff after at least six assault since the turn of the year.
> 
> Last month police in *Lower Saxony warned there is a "new phenomenon" of "sporadic group sexual assaults" in pools across the state and have accused "non German" men of the attacks. *
> 
> Germany recently introduced a new 'No Means No' law amid increasing levels of sexual assaults by migrants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful, there, Tilly.
> 
> A senior moderator here thinks Muslim men raping European women and children is funny.
> 
> She keeps indicting such.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know. Just when you think she can sink no lower, she manages! Utterly disgusting, but not exactly surprising.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coming from a woman who thinks slaughtering Muslim children (because they might be indoctrinated) is a good idea...well, utterly disgusting but not exactly surprising pretty much fits
Click to expand...


You seem to be in denial that the Muslims rape women and children.   According to you it's nothing to see here....  

Bet you wouldn't leave your kids to be watched by these animals.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Imperius said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> the actual rate of sex crimes has been more or less unchanged in Sweden between 2005 and 2014, despite the fact that immigration has increased during the same time period.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True, but while the rate of sex crimes hasn't changed despite the rise in immigration, the rise in Muslim immigrants may effect who carries out those sex crimes. The rate doesn't have to change, but the demographics of the people who commit those sex crimes can.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, are you saying that imported rapists are pushing out native rapists?
Click to expand...







No they are just more active


----------



## Mindful

It took days for police to acknowledge the extent of the mass attacks on women celebrating New Year’s Eve in Cologne. The Germans were lucky; in Sweden, similar attacks have been taking place for more than a year and the authorities are still playing catch up. Only now is the truth emerging, both about the attacks and the cover-ups. Stefan Löfven, our Prime Minister, has denounced a ‘double betrayal’ of women and has promised an investigation. But he ought to be asking this: what made the police and even journalists cover up the truth?

The answer can be discovered in the reaction to the Cologne attacks. Sweden prides itself on its sexual equality and has even pioneered a feminist foreign policy. When hundreds of women were reported to have been molested and abused in Cologne — at the hands of an organised mob — the reaction from Swedish politicians and pundits ought to have been one of outrage.

Instead, we were told that the events in Cologne were not unusual. An article in _Aftonbladet_, Sweden’s largest tabloid, argued that it was racist to point out that the perpetrators in Cologne had been described as North African or Arab, since German men had carried out sexual assaults during Bavaria’s Oktober-fest. Another _Aftonbladet _article said that reporting on the Cologne attacks was bowing to right-wing extremism. Over the last week, we have been told over and over that the real issue is men, not any particular culture — that Swedish men are no better.

In the Arab world, it’s something of a phenomenon. It has a name: ‘Taharrush gamea’. Sometimes the girls are teased and have their veils torn off by gangs of young men; sometimes it escalates into rape. Five years ago, this form of attack was the subject of an award-winning Egyptian film, _678_. Instances of young men surrounding and attacking girls were reported throughout the Arab Spring protests in Cairo in 2011 and 2012. Lara Logan, a CNN journalist covering the fall of Hosni Mubarak, was raped in Tahrir Square. Taharrush gamea is a modern evil, and it’s being imported into Europe. Our authorities ought to be aware of it.

It’s not only Germany that covers up mass sex attacks by migrant men... Sweden’s record is shameful


----------



## Tommy Tainant

As we can see from this thread it is quite easy for the right to inflame hatred. Their targets are not too bright and they tend to only believe sources that confirm their low information prejudices.

Look at the cheerleaders on here for Islamophobia. One is a big supporter of Israel and would like to see all muslim children slaughtered. One is a rabid nazi who would like to see ALL people of colour chemically castrated.

You arent going to see a reasoned debate from this type of individual. 

Anybody who has a different view is denounced as a rape apologist or a muslim savage or a woman hater.

Its a classic Hilterian tactic for stifling debate. If you can scream loud enough you can win the debate.

Are there issues with migrants in Europe ? Of course there are.

Is the next apocalypse about to happen ? Is it fuck.

Maybe a bit more time spent understanding why these people are in Europe might enlighten the ignorant a little bit.


----------



## Ridgerunner

Tommy Tainant I would have thought you would be sober this early in the morning... Guess not...


----------



## Mindful

Tommy Tainant said:


> As we can see from this thread it is quite easy for the right to inflame hatred. Their targets are not too bright and they tend to only believe sources that confirm their low information prejudices.
> 
> Look at the cheerleaders on here for Islamophobia. One is a big supporter of Israel and would like to see all muslim children slaughtered. One is a rabid nazi who would like to see ALL people of colour chemically castrated.
> 
> You arent going to see a reasoned debate from this type of individual.
> 
> Anybody who has a different view is denounced as a rape apologist or a muslim savage or a woman hater.
> 
> Its a classic Hilterian tactic for stifling debate. If you can scream loud enough you can win the debate.
> 
> Are there issues with migrants in Europe ? Of course there are.
> 
> Is the next apocalypse about to happen ? Is it fuck.
> 
> Maybe a bit more time spent understanding why these people are in Europe might enlighten the ignorant a little bit.



Some of that stuff is slanderous. Even libellous.


----------



## Tommy Tainant

Mindful said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> As we can see from this thread it is quite easy for the right to inflame hatred. Their targets are not too bright and they tend to only believe sources that confirm their low information prejudices.
> 
> Look at the cheerleaders on here for Islamophobia. One is a big supporter of Israel and would like to see all muslim children slaughtered. One is a rabid nazi who would like to see ALL people of colour chemically castrated.
> 
> You arent going to see a reasoned debate from this type of individual.
> 
> Anybody who has a different view is denounced as a rape apologist or a muslim savage or a woman hater.
> 
> Its a classic Hilterian tactic for stifling debate. If you can scream loud enough you can win the debate.
> 
> Are there issues with migrants in Europe ? Of course there are.
> 
> Is the next apocalypse about to happen ? Is it fuck.
> 
> Maybe a bit more time spent understanding why these people are in Europe might enlighten the ignorant a little bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some of that stuff is slanderous. Even libellous.
Click to expand...

Oh dear.


----------



## Mindful

Tommy Tainant said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> As we can see from this thread it is quite easy for the right to inflame hatred. Their targets are not too bright and they tend to only believe sources that confirm their low information prejudices.
> 
> Look at the cheerleaders on here for Islamophobia. One is a big supporter of Israel and would like to see all muslim children slaughtered. One is a rabid nazi who would like to see ALL people of colour chemically castrated.
> 
> You arent going to see a reasoned debate from this type of individual.
> 
> Anybody who has a different view is denounced as a rape apologist or a muslim savage or a woman hater.
> 
> Its a classic Hilterian tactic for stifling debate. If you can scream loud enough you can win the debate.
> 
> Are there issues with migrants in Europe ? Of course there are.
> 
> Is the next apocalypse about to happen ? Is it fuck.
> 
> Maybe a bit more time spent understanding why these people are in Europe might enlighten the ignorant a little bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some of that stuff is slanderous. Even libellous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh dear.
Click to expand...


Oh dear what?

And what's funny about it?


----------



## Tommy Tainant

Mindful said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> As we can see from this thread it is quite easy for the right to inflame hatred. Their targets are not too bright and they tend to only believe sources that confirm their low information prejudices.
> 
> Look at the cheerleaders on here for Islamophobia. One is a big supporter of Israel and would like to see all muslim children slaughtered. One is a rabid nazi who would like to see ALL people of colour chemically castrated.
> 
> You arent going to see a reasoned debate from this type of individual.
> 
> Anybody who has a different view is denounced as a rape apologist or a muslim savage or a woman hater.
> 
> Its a classic Hilterian tactic for stifling debate. If you can scream loud enough you can win the debate.
> 
> Are there issues with migrants in Europe ? Of course there are.
> 
> Is the next apocalypse about to happen ? Is it fuck.
> 
> Maybe a bit more time spent understanding why these people are in Europe might enlighten the ignorant a little bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some of that stuff is slanderous. Even libellous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh dear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh dear what?
> 
> And what's funny about it?
Click to expand...

Your faux sensitivity.


----------



## Mindful

Tommy Tainant said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> As we can see from this thread it is quite easy for the right to inflame hatred. Their targets are not too bright and they tend to only believe sources that confirm their low information prejudices.
> 
> Look at the cheerleaders on here for Islamophobia. One is a big supporter of Israel and would like to see all muslim children slaughtered. One is a rabid nazi who would like to see ALL people of colour chemically castrated.
> 
> You arent going to see a reasoned debate from this type of individual.
> 
> Anybody who has a different view is denounced as a rape apologist or a muslim savage or a woman hater.
> 
> Its a classic Hilterian tactic for stifling debate. If you can scream loud enough you can win the debate.
> 
> Are there issues with migrants in Europe ? Of course there are.
> 
> Is the next apocalypse about to happen ? Is it fuck.
> 
> Maybe a bit more time spent understanding why these people are in Europe might enlighten the ignorant a little bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some of that stuff is slanderous. Even libellous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh dear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh dear what?
> 
> And what's funny about it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your faux sensitivity.
Click to expand...


That was unintelligible.


----------



## Phoenall

Mindful said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> As we can see from this thread it is quite easy for the right to inflame hatred. Their targets are not too bright and they tend to only believe sources that confirm their low information prejudices.
> 
> Look at the cheerleaders on here for Islamophobia. One is a big supporter of Israel and would like to see all muslim children slaughtered. One is a rabid nazi who would like to see ALL people of colour chemically castrated.
> 
> You arent going to see a reasoned debate from this type of individual.
> 
> Anybody who has a different view is denounced as a rape apologist or a muslim savage or a woman hater.
> 
> Its a classic Hilterian tactic for stifling debate. If you can scream loud enough you can win the debate.
> 
> Are there issues with migrants in Europe ? Of course there are.
> 
> Is the next apocalypse about to happen ? Is it fuck.
> 
> Maybe a bit more time spent understanding why these people are in Europe might enlighten the ignorant a little bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some of that stuff is slanderous. Even libellous.
Click to expand...








 Typical neo marxist tactics when they cant produce an argument, that is why tainted is wrong 100% of the time and has to round up his friends to back him up. They still believe that they are in charge and can do what they want, isnt it grand when they are shown they cant.


----------



## gtopa1

Tommy Tainant said:


> As we can see from this thread it is quite easy for the right to inflame hatred. Their targets are not too bright and they tend to only believe sources that confirm their low information prejudices.
> 
> Look at the cheerleaders on here for Islamophobia. One is a big supporter of Israel and would like to see all muslim children slaughtered. One is a rabid nazi who would like to see ALL people of colour chemically castrated.
> 
> You arent going to see a reasoned debate from this type of individual.
> 
> Anybody who has a different view is denounced as a rape apologist or a muslim savage or a woman hater.
> 
> Its a classic Hilterian tactic for stifling debate. If you can scream loud enough you can win the debate.
> 
> Are there issues with migrants in Europe ? Of course there are.
> 
> Is the next apocalypse about to happen ? Is it fuck.
> 
> Maybe a bit more time spent understanding why these people are in Europe might enlighten the ignorant a little bit.



Seems you are blind to the obvious. You are just as bad as the men who participate in the Taharrush gamea. 





> Over the last week, we have been told over and over that the real issue is men, not any particular culture — that Swedish men are no better.



You Welsh are no better either!!!!

Greg


----------



## gtopa1

‘Cologne is every day’: Europe’s rape epidemic

Berlin; we've had a problem here.

Greg


----------



## Tommy Tainant

Phoenall said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> As we can see from this thread it is quite easy for the right to inflame hatred. Their targets are not too bright and they tend to only believe sources that confirm their low information prejudices.
> 
> Look at the cheerleaders on here for Islamophobia. One is a big supporter of Israel and would like to see all muslim children slaughtered. One is a rabid nazi who would like to see ALL people of colour chemically castrated.
> 
> You arent going to see a reasoned debate from this type of individual.
> 
> Anybody who has a different view is denounced as a rape apologist or a muslim savage or a woman hater.
> 
> Its a classic Hilterian tactic for stifling debate. If you can scream loud enough you can win the debate.
> 
> Are there issues with migrants in Europe ? Of course there are.
> 
> Is the next apocalypse about to happen ? Is it fuck.
> 
> Maybe a bit more time spent understanding why these people are in Europe might enlighten the ignorant a little bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some of that stuff is slanderous. Even libellous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical neo marxist tactics when they cant produce an argument, that is why tainted is wrong 100% of the time and has to round up his friends to back him up. They still believe that they are in charge and can do what they want, isnt it grand when they are shown they cant.
Click to expand...


Here is a man who knows all about libel. He is saying that Gordon Brown is a paedo on another thread.
Such is the mentality of the haters.


----------



## Mindful

Tommy Tainant said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> As we can see from this thread it is quite easy for the right to inflame hatred. Their targets are not too bright and they tend to only believe sources that confirm their low information prejudices.
> 
> Look at the cheerleaders on here for Islamophobia. One is a big supporter of Israel and would like to see all muslim children slaughtered. One is a rabid nazi who would like to see ALL people of colour chemically castrated.
> 
> You arent going to see a reasoned debate from this type of individual.
> 
> Anybody who has a different view is denounced as a rape apologist or a muslim savage or a woman hater.
> 
> Its a classic Hilterian tactic for stifling debate. If you can scream loud enough you can win the debate.
> 
> Are there issues with migrants in Europe ? Of course there are.
> 
> Is the next apocalypse about to happen ? Is it fuck.
> 
> Maybe a bit more time spent understanding why these people are in Europe might enlighten the ignorant a little bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some of that stuff is slanderous. Even libellous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical neo marxist tactics when they cant produce an argument, that is why tainted is wrong 100% of the time and has to round up his friends to back him up. They still believe that they are in charge and can do what they want, isnt it grand when they are shown they cant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here is a man who knows all about libel. He is saying that Gordon Brown is a paedo on another thread.
> Such is the mentality of the haters.
Click to expand...


Does that exonerate you then?


----------



## Tommy Tainant

Mindful said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> As we can see from this thread it is quite easy for the right to inflame hatred. Their targets are not too bright and they tend to only believe sources that confirm their low information prejudices.
> 
> Look at the cheerleaders on here for Islamophobia. One is a big supporter of Israel and would like to see all muslim children slaughtered. One is a rabid nazi who would like to see ALL people of colour chemically castrated.
> 
> You arent going to see a reasoned debate from this type of individual.
> 
> Anybody who has a different view is denounced as a rape apologist or a muslim savage or a woman hater.
> 
> Its a classic Hilterian tactic for stifling debate. If you can scream loud enough you can win the debate.
> 
> Are there issues with migrants in Europe ? Of course there are.
> 
> Is the next apocalypse about to happen ? Is it fuck.
> 
> Maybe a bit more time spent understanding why these people are in Europe might enlighten the ignorant a little bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some of that stuff is slanderous. Even libellous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical neo marxist tactics when they cant produce an argument, that is why tainted is wrong 100% of the time and has to round up his friends to back him up. They still believe that they are in charge and can do what they want, isnt it grand when they are shown they cant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here is a man who knows all about libel. He is saying that Gordon Brown is a paedo on another thread.
> Such is the mentality of the haters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does that exonerate you then?
Click to expand...

From what ?


----------



## Tilly

Cover up began before NYE, it began with the welcoming party:

*MIGRANT SEX ATTACK 'COVER-UP': Welcome party for Cologne refugees turned into mass groping*
*FURY is growing in Germany over mounting evidence of ANOTHER cover-up of migrant sex crimes after it emerged a welcome party for refugees held two months before the Cologne rapes descended into a mass groping session. *
By NICK GUTTERIDGE
PUBLISHED: 05:01, Sat, Jan 16, 2016 | UPDATED: 12:06, Sat, Jan 16, 2016







GETTY

Anger is growing in Germany over suspicions of a migrant sex attack cover-up
Police and victims have furiously demanded to know why organisers did not warn them that refugees had committed abhorrent sexual harassment amid speculation such information could have helped avert the sickening attacks on New Year's Eve. 

*Young women had to flee the welcome event in terror after being groped by gangs of migrant men, even though organisers repeatedly interrupted the music with messages in Arabic urging them to stop their harassment. *

The revelations have raised the ugly prospect that some of those refugees were free to go on and commit the twisted sex crimes on New Year's Eve because politically correct council officials did not report them to the police. 

Angela Merkel's government is under increasing pressure to come clean over the true numbers of sex crimes linked to migrants after it emerged that authorities deliberately withheld the nationalities of the Cologne attackers for several days.

*They also "covered up" similar incidents in other cities including Dusseldorf and Hamburg, Munich and Berlin. *


Angela Merkel has come under pressure to expose the true level of sex crimes committed by migrants





EPA

There has been a heavy police presence in Cologne since the New Year's Eve attacks

*Today the council official responsible for the integration of refugees in the Cologne region admitted organisers knew about the sex attacks at the event but did not want to make a fuss. *

*She also shockingly said she "cannot remember" whether she advised the women w*ho were attacked to go to the police, but added she felt the event's student organisers "had learned from the situation". 


MIGRANT SEX ATTACK 'COVER-UP': Welcome party for Cologne refugees turned into mass groping


----------



## Tilly

Denmark having a similar imaginary problem as the rest of Europe:

*Desperate Danes found CITIZEN police force to protect young women from migrant sex attacks*

*MIGRANT sex pests have become so alarmingly common in one Danish city that locals have been forced to found a citizen police force to keep their women safe, it emerged today. *

By NICK GUTTERIDGE
PUBLISHED: 16:16, Thu, Jan 14, 2016 | UPDATED: 16:39, Thu, Jan 14, 2016







GETTY

Locals have set up a citizen's police force to stop migrant sex attacks in Denmark
Desperate residents in Thisted are patrolling the streets every night in a bid to deter migrants from sexually harassing young women in bars and clubs. 

The city has seen an alarming rise in the number of women reporting sexual harassment by migrants since the Government opened a centre to home 365 refugees two months ago. 

Worried locals are also set to put on sex awareness courses for the new arrivals, after admitting that a "cultural problem" has left many women feeling unsafe to go out at night. 

The alarming development comes after hundreds of women were raped and robbed by a 1,000-strong gang of migrants and refugees in the German city of Cologne on New Year's Eve. 






GETTY

Tensions are rising over the huge number of migrants being taken in by Denmark and Sweden





visitnordjylland.dk

Residents in Thisted are becoming increasingly concerned by harassment of young women
It will fuel further debate about the wisdom of Europe's open door immigration policy, championed by Angela Merkel, *with towns and cities across the continent warning that crime including sex assaults has rocketed with the influx of migrants. *

In Thisted there have been a series of clashes between migrants and locals in the streets after concerned residents stepped in to stop women from being molested and potentially raped. 

Migrants are reportedly roaming the city's nightlife hotspots after dark and harassing groups of young women, who have told authorities they are becoming too scared to go out. ...


Desperate Danes found CITIZEN police force to protect young women from migrant sex attacks


----------



## Coyote

DarkFury said:


> Ridgerunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Freja is a 50 year old bloke with a cellar full of nazi memorabilia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like your collection of naked Neville Chamberlain pics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *I just love these threads started by rape apologists.
> They could give a damn less about the victims.*
Click to expand...

Oh please, you know damn well you guys don't give a damn about rape, or other abusive crimes against women and girls such as child marriages UNLESS Muslims are involved


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another fact is we know it's supported by those immigrant societies, who see rape of boys and girls as nothing special,  and encouraged by their religious law.
> 
> How can a woman apologize for this ??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote places party above all things.
> 
> The party is closely aligned with the goals of radical Islam, so Coyote support those goals. Rape by Muslims detracts from the goal of massive immigration of Muslims into America. Remember, the #1 priority  of the democrats is to end what they call "white, Christian America."  Radical Islam is a key ally in the war democrats are waging on the nation.
> 
> Rape is a minor issue, the goal of ending America is too important worry about such things for Coyote and the other democrats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What I find interesting is how Coyote claims she gets a few odd jobs here and there trimming dog's toenails, which certainly explains why she has 8-10 hours a day to devote to het internet Jihad, but it sure doesn't explain how she manages to make any sort of living.
> 
> I think the "party" in question isn't the Democratic, but something more along the lines of C.A.I.R. or the Muslim Brotherhood  -- well, as if there was really any differences between the two.
Click to expand...


Hey, I'd rather be trimming dogs toenails then electrocute them on stage like your stated hero.  You have a strange choice in heros, hopefully people keep their dogs away from you.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another fact is we know it's supported by those immigrant societies, who see rape of boys and girls as nothing special,  and encouraged by their religious law.
> 
> How can a woman apologize for this ??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote places party above all things.
> 
> The party is closely aligned with the goals of radical Islam, so Coyote support those goals. Rape by Muslims detracts from the goal of massive immigration of Muslims into America. Remember, the #1 priority  of the democrats is to end what they call "white, Christian America."  Radical Islam is a key ally in the war democrats are waging on the nation.
> 
> Rape is a minor issue, the goal of ending America is too important worry about such things for Coyote and the other democrats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What I find interesting is how Coyote claims she gets a few odd jobs here and there trimming dog's toenails, which certainly explains why she has 8-10 hours a day to devote to het internet Jihad, but it sure doesn't explain how she manages to make any sort of living.
> 
> I think the "party" in question isn't the Democratic, but something more along the lines of C.A.I.R. or the Muslim Brotherhood  -- well, as if there was really any differences between the two.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey, I'd rather be trimming dogs toenails then electrocute them on stage like your stated hero.  You have a strange choice in heros, hopefully people keep their dogs away from you.
Click to expand...



Such desperation. You are like a rabid animal backed into a corner, snarling at anything that moves.

 How much does the Brotherhood pay you to embarrass yourself like this time after time like you do?


----------



## Mindful

Tommy Tainant said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> As we can see from this thread it is quite easy for the right to inflame hatred. Their targets are not too bright and they tend to only believe sources that confirm their low information prejudices.
> 
> Look at the cheerleaders on here for Islamophobia. One is a big supporter of Israel and would like to see all muslim children slaughtered. One is a rabid nazi who would like to see ALL people of colour chemically castrated.
> 
> You arent going to see a reasoned debate from this type of individual.
> 
> Anybody who has a different view is denounced as a rape apologist or a muslim savage or a woman hater.
> 
> Its a classic Hilterian tactic for stifling debate. If you can scream loud enough you can win the debate.
> 
> Are there issues with migrants in Europe ? Of course there are.
> 
> Is the next apocalypse about to happen ? Is it fuck.
> 
> Maybe a bit more time spent understanding why these people are in Europe might enlighten the ignorant a little bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some of that stuff is slanderous. Even libellous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical neo marxist tactics when they cant produce an argument, that is why tainted is wrong 100% of the time and has to round up his friends to back him up. They still believe that they are in charge and can do what they want, isnt it grand when they are shown they cant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here is a man who knows all about libel. He is saying that Gordon Brown is a paedo on another thread.
> Such is the mentality of the haters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does that exonerate you then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From what ?
Click to expand...


Don't try that coy act on me.

Are you fluttering your eyelashes too?


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Mindful said:


> . But he ought to be asking this: what made the police and even journalists cover up the truth?



Look no further than Tommy Taint and the Rabid Coyote, multiply by millions and you will find your answer.

They support Rape Jihad for no other reason than the fact they have been conditioned to do so, as their fear of being treated the same way they treat those who do not support such rapes trumps all else.


----------



## Coyote

So we have Tilly going into mass overdrive (must be hyperventilating now, probably more exercise then she's had in years) googling like crazy to find any article she can on migrants and rape.  Of course we all no how accurate the media is.

Where is any actual data that there is an increase in rape crimes for one, and that it is due to immigrants/migrants for another?

If I can find data supporting my claim, surely you can provide the same?

Otherwise there is little difference between you, Dogma, etc and those during Jim Crowe in the US.  If a black man touched a white woman, looked at her wrong, talked to her or was in the wrong place or rude, he could be accused of rape and a vigilante form of town justice would make sure he paid in the name of protecting women.  Just like one of the articles you posted.  

So I wonder, what is the difference between you two and those people?   Not much, they hated blacks, you hate Muslims, irregardless of what individuals do.

When a person hates one group so much he is willing to deliberately use discredited material from a known hate site in lieu of the credible source he previously used so he can demonize them, his fellow American citizens, then it's time to ask why?  

There is no difference between you and those people who inspired Billie Holiday's song, Strange Fruit.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> Oh please, you know damn well you guys don't give a damn about rape, or other abusive crimes against women and girls such as child marriages UNLESS Muslims are involved




 Your projection here reveals much about your twisted psychology.

 Just because your own attitude about rape and child abuse is entirely situational and based upon some truly evil double standards, that does not mean others suffer from the same sickness as you.

 Since you do not oppose rape and child abuse as long as Muslims are doing it, that does not mean others have similarly warped world views. This may be an alien concept to you, but some people oppose rape and child abuse because it is wrong.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Coyote said:


> [
> Oh please, you know damn well you guys don't give a damn about rape, or other abusive crimes against women and girls such as child marriages UNLESS Muslims are involved



That's a pretty stupid lie, even for a leftist Jihadi.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Mindful said:


> Are you fluttering your eyelashes too?




I think he saves that for when he sees several Pakistani men approaching him as a group.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Coyote said:


> [
> Hey, I'd rather be trimming dogs toenails then electrocute them on stage like your stated hero.  You have a strange choice in heros, hopefully people keep their dogs away from you.



Say, don't your ISIS buddies have a deep hatred of dogs? Their god Muhammad had a problem with dogs. Dogs and children can sense evil, so Muhammad would be attacked by any dog around. 

Isn't this a conflict between you and your radical Islamic allies?


----------



## Mindful

Uncensored2008 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> Oh please, you know damn well you guys don't give a damn about rape, or other abusive crimes against women and girls such as child marriages UNLESS Muslims are involved
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a pretty stupid lie, even for a leftist Jihadi.
Click to expand...


I make a distinction here.

There have not been problems with the Turkish Muslims in Germany. 

I observed deep cultural differences recently between them and Arab Muslims.


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> . But he ought to be asking this: what made the police and even journalists cover up the truth?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look no further than Tommy Taint and the Rabid Coyote, multiply by millions and you will find your answer.
> 
> They support Rape Jihad for no other reason than the fact they have been conditioned to do so, as their fear of being treated the same way they treat those who do not support such rapes trumps all else.
Click to expand...




Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I realize is that you hate Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How typical -- if a poster does not support the rape of women and children as a sign of cultural dominance, they "hate Islam".
> 
> The question really shouldn't be why anybody would hate rape Jihad, but why you so obviously DON'T.
Click to expand...

 Actually my summation of you has nothing to do with your claim that you hate rape.  We all do.  Its that that excuse is nothing more then a thin veneer.  You gave you self away.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Mindful said:


> [
> 
> I make a distinction here.
> 
> There have not been problems with the Turkish Muslims in Germany.
> 
> I observed deep cultural differences recently between them and Arab Muslims.



Turkey WAS a secular, European country for nearly a century. Islam had faded to a social status, similar to how Christianity is in Europe. Sadly,  Turkey will soon be the same sort of barbaric shit hole as the rest of the Islamic world.

Islam is a cancer that destroys civilization.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> . But he ought to be asking this: what made the police and even journalists cover up the truth?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look no further than Tommy Taint and the Rabid Coyote, multiply by millions and you will find your answer.
> 
> They support Rape Jihad for no other reason than the fact they have been conditioned to do so, as their fear of being treated the same way they treat those who do not support such rapes trumps all else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I realize is that you hate Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How typical -- if a poster does not support the rape of women and children as a sign of cultural dominance, they "hate Islam".
> 
> The question really shouldn't be why anybody would hate rape Jihad, but why you so obviously DON'T.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually my summation of you has nothing to do with your claim that you hate rape.  We all do.  Its that that excuse is nothing more then a thin veneer.  You gave you self away.
Click to expand...



So, is it by the hour or are you paid on salary?

 I'm thinking by the hour due to the astounding number of such you spend on your mission.


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tattoos to counter the 'growing issue of sex attacks' that isn't really happening. Lol.
> 
> *'NO’ German girls given TEMPORARY TATTOOS to help prevent swimming pool sex attacks*
> *YOUNG girls are being given temporary tattoos in swimming pools spelling out word “NO” after a spate of sex attacks at public baths. *
> By ZOIE O'BRIEN
> PUBLISHED: 11:31, Mon, Aug 22, 2016 | UPDATED: 11:46, Mon, Aug 22, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GETTY/ NC
> 
> Temporary tattoos are being handed to young German girls over sex assaults
> The small press-on designs also sport angel-like wings and are part of a new prevention campaign launched in the Bodensee district in the state of Baden-Wurttemberg.
> 
> Veronika Wascher-Goggerle, the Women's and Family representative of the district, is behind the launch and said the press-on tattoos would also help raise awareness over the growing issue of sex attacks in swimming pools.
> 
> The Bodenseekreis is famous for its bathing and boasts numerous indoor and outdoor swimming pools.
> 
> Alleged sex attacks by migrants have caused heated debate in the area over the last few months and some pools are hiring extra security - or even banning asylum seekers altogether. ....
> 
> ‘NO’ German girls given TEMPORARY TATTOOS to help prevent swimming pool sex attacks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alleged.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Glad to see you think so little of women and children that you constantly make any excuses for these sexual predators.
> 
> I bet you were here posting the salon articles by the Pedo's trying to normalize that behavior.
Click to expand...

We have a justice system for a reason, we are a people of laws, not mob justice. A person is innocent until proven guilty.  Is this such a problem for you that you now have to resort to accusing people of supporting pedos?


----------



## Uncensored2008

Coyote said:


> [
> Actually my summation of you has nothing to do with your claim that you hate rape.  We all do.  Its that that excuse is nothing more then a thin veneer.  You gave you self away.



You "hate" rape? 

Is it that spreading Islam is so important to you that you're willing to excuse a little rape for the glory of Allah?

I mean, your flaccid attempt to excuse rape Jihad shows hatred, but not hatred of rape.


----------



## Mindful

Uncensored2008 said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> I make a distinction here.
> 
> There have not been problems with the Turkish Muslims in Germany.
> 
> I observed deep cultural differences recently between them and Arab Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey WAS a secular, European country for nearly a decade. Islam had faded to a social status, similar to how Christianity is in Europe. Sadly,  Turkey will soon be the same sort of barbaric shit hole as the rest of the Islamic world.
> 
> Islam is a cancer that destroys civilization.
Click to expand...


Thank Attaturk.

Turks have been peacefully entrenched in German society for many years.  I don't see the Burka worn by the women. Some head coverings though.


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another fact is we know it's supported by those immigrant societies, who see rape of boys and girls as nothing special,  and encouraged by their religious law.
> 
> How can a woman apologize for this ??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote places party above all things.
> 
> The party is closely aligned with the goals of radical Islam, so Coyote support those goals. Rape by Muslims detracts from the goal of massive immigration of Muslims into America. Remember, the #1 priority  of the democrats is to end what they call "white, Christian America."  Radical Islam is a key ally in the war democrats are waging on the nation.
> 
> Rape is a minor issue, the goal of ending America is too important worry about such things for Coyote and the other democrats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What I find interesting is how Coyote claims she gets a few odd jobs here and there trimming dog's toenails, which certainly explains why she has 8-10 hours a day to devote to het internet Jihad, but it sure doesn't explain how she manages to make any sort of living.
> 
> I think the "party" in question isn't the Democratic, but something more along the lines of C.A.I.R. or the Muslim Brotherhood  -- well, as if there was really any differences between the two.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey, I'd rather be trimming dogs toenails then electrocute them on stage like your stated hero.  You have a strange choice in heros, hopefully people keep their dogs away from you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Such desperation. You are like a rabid animal backed into a corner, snarling at anything that moves.
> 
> How much does the Brotherhood pay you to embarrass yourself like this time after time like you do?
Click to expand...

Oh dear.  Must have hit a nerve.

Just stay away from dogs.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Mindful said:


> [
> 
> Thank Attaturk.
> 
> Turks have been peacefully entrenched in German society for many years.  I don't see the Burka worn by the women. *Some head coverings though.*



It is slowly infecting Turkish culture. 

Attaturk was a great man, and would weep over what is happening to the great nation he built.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Uncensored2008 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> Actually my summation of you has nothing to do with your claim that you hate rape.  We all do.  Its that that excuse is nothing more then a thin veneer.  You gave you self away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You "hate" rape?
> 
> Is it that spreading Islam is so important to you that you're willing to excuse a little rape for the glory of Allah?
> 
> I mean, your flaccid attempt to excuse rape Jihad shows hatred, but not hatred of rape.
Click to expand...



She is such a twisted, dysfunctional creature that she assumes anybody who opposes rape jihad must be doing so for the same reason she is defending it.


----------



## Coyote

Uncensored2008 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> Actually my summation of you has nothing to do with your claim that you hate rape.  We all do.  Its that that excuse is nothing more then a thin veneer.  You gave you self away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You "hate" rape?
> 
> Is it that spreading Islam is so important to you that you're willing to excuse a little rape for the glory of Allah?
> 
> I mean, your flaccid attempt to excuse rape Jihad shows hatred, but not hatred of rape.
Click to expand...

 
Your concern a out the abuse of women ends once Muslims are out of the picture .


----------



## Mindful

Uncensored2008 said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> Thank Attaturk.
> 
> Turks have been peacefully entrenched in German society for many years.  I don't see the Burka worn by the women. *Some head coverings though.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is slowly infecting Turkish culture.
> 
> Attaturk was a great man, and would weep over what is happening to the great nation he built.
Click to expand...


The thing is, the Turks and the Arabs here don't speak the same language. So they can't communicate.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Coyote said:


> [
> Your concern a out the abuse of women ends once Muslims are out of the picture .



That lie didn't work the first time, why do you think it will work now?


----------



## Uncensored2008

Mindful said:


> [
> 
> 
> The thing is, the Turks and the Arabs here don't speak the same language. So they can't communicate.





All faithful Muslims speak at least some Arabic. The infernal book of evil, the Koran, is to be read in Arabic.


----------



## Ridgerunner

Mindful said:


> I make a distinction here.
> 
> There have not been problems with the Turkish Muslims in Germany.
> 
> I observed deep cultural differences recently between them and Arab Muslims



Agreed Mindful... I maintained a room in a Barracks for the sake of Military foolishness. 3 story building with the U.S. Army having the first floor and German labor Force living on the remaining 2 floors. I estimate 75 to 80% were Turkish Muslims. This was in the late 70's. While these folks were definitely different than back home in Indiana, they were very cordial and enjoyed sneaking beer into their rooms.
What I am gathering now is these refugee knuckleheads coming in from the African Continent and the Middle East. Completely different mindset of the Muslims from Turkey...


----------



## Mindful

Uncensored2008 said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> 
> The thing is, the Turks and the Arabs here don't speak the same language. So they can't communicate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All faithful Muslims speak at least some Arabic. The infernal book of evil, the Koran, is to be read in Arabic.
Click to expand...


For the prayers, no doubt. But for everyday communications, no.

Also noticeable, the Turkish community in the US is very different to the one in Germany.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Mindful said:


> For the prayers, no doubt. But for everyday communications, no.
> 
> Also noticeable, the Turkish community in the US is very different to the one in Germany.



If the Turkish community in the US even practices Islam, it isn't evident. Even the Ottomans made sure not to take Islam too seriously.


----------



## Coyote

Ridgerunner said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> I make a distinction here.
> 
> There have not been problems with the Turkish Muslims in Germany.
> 
> I observed deep cultural differences recently between them and Arab Muslims
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed Mindful... I maintained a room in a Barracks for the sake of Military foolishness. 3 story building with the U.S. Army having the first floor and German labor Force living on the remaining 2 floors. I estimate 75 to 80% were Turkish Muslims. This was in the late 70's. While these folks were definitely different than back home in Indiana, they were very cordial and enjoyed sneaking beer into their rooms.
> What I am gathering now is these refugee knuckleheads coming in from the African Continent and the Middle East. Completely different mindset of the Muslims from Turkey...
Click to expand...

There is a widespread assumption that all Muslim cultures are the same for some reason.


----------



## Coyote

Uncensored2008 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> Your concern a out the abuse of women ends once Muslims are out of the picture .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That lie didn't work the first time, why do you think it will work now?
Click to expand...

Funny thing is...I simply can't find anything you've posted on it when it doesn't involve Muslims 

Surely you must have if I'm lying...


----------



## Coyote

Do tell..
.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> Oh dear.  Must have hit a nerve.
> 
> Just stay away from dogs.



 I have three dogs in my household, and they are pampered totally.

 This hysteria and mania of yours is not healthy. I have never particularly noticed your absence for any length of time, but I wouldn't rule out bi-polar disorder. The depressive episodes may just be quite limited in yours. Your obsessiveness, infatigable attention to just one subject,  wild flights of fantasy and utter disregard for the victims of rape all point in a similar direction by way of diagnosis. Those with bipolar disorder are also prone to sexual excess and risk-taking behavior -- factors that are not apparent over the internet, but if you find yourself as little able to contain your impulses in real life as you do here, perhaps you should seek some help.

 Now, I am taking you at face value when you describe yourself as an Appalachian woman who gets a few odd jobs trimming dogs toenails, as you can just as easily be pretending to be such as an application of taqiyya. Assuming you are what you say you are, however, this obsession of yours is simply not the product of a healthy psyche.


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please, you know damn well you guys don't give a damn about rape, or other abusive crimes against women and girls such as child marriages UNLESS Muslims are involved
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your projection here reveals much about your twisted psychology.
> 
> Just because your own attitude about rape and child abuse is entirely situational and based upon some truly evil double standards, that does not mean others suffer from the same sickness as you.
> 
> Since you do not oppose rape and child abuse as long as Muslims are doing it, that does not mean others have similarly warped world views. This may be an alien concept to you, but some people oppose rape and child abuse because it is wrong.
Click to expand...


I looked for all your posts condemning rape, forced child marriages, violence against st women...well, there just doesn't seem to be much there outside of a Muslim context does there? Cat  you say "a truly enjoyed I'll double standard" is at play in regards. To yourself?

While we're discussing your standards, I notice you keep ducking this.  Why did you choose a discredited poll from a hate site over Pew, a source you normally use, which is reputable?  Was it because you hate Muslims, even american muslims, so much you will use any means so possible to demonize them?

When you make a conscious choice to do so...what does that say about you, your honesty and your integrity. Strange Fruit indeed.


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh dear.  Must have hit a nerve.
> 
> Just stay away from dogs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have three dogs in my household, and they are pampered totally.
> 
> This hysteria and mania of yours is not healthy. I have never particularly noticed your absence for any length of time, but I wouldn't rule out bi-polar disorder. The depressive episodes may just be quite limited in yours. Your obsessiveness, infatigable attention to just one subject,  wild flights of fantasy and utter disregard for the victims of rape all point in a similar direction by way of diagnosis. Those with bipolar disorder are also prone to sexual excess and risk-taking behavior -- factors that are not apparent over the internet, but if you find yourself as little able to contain your impulses in real life as you do here, perhaps you should seek some help.
> 
> Now, I am taking you at face value when you describe yourself as an Appalachian woman who gets a few odd jobs trimming dogs toenails, as you can just as easily be pretending to be such as an application of taqiyya. Assuming you are what you say you are, however, this obsession of yours is simply not the product of a healthy psyche.
Click to expand...


Do tell.


----------



## guno

Imperius said:


> Ahh, so we link to an image that says  "Only Jesus can build a bridge to heaven using only two pieces of wood."
> 
> But forget the other side of that deal. Not everyone gets into heaven, not everyone is allowed into heaven, not even on that bridge Jesus built with two pieces of wood. Hence the words Jesus spoke in Matthew 7:23.
> 
> Meaning, that just like immigration laws which set the standard for those who want to get into our country, there are also standards set by God for those who wish to enter into the kingdom of heaven.


how  come you rightwing christer always leave this out of your jebus talks

Matthew 25:35-46


'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.' "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 

3 John 1:5

Beloved, you are acting faithfully in whatever you accomplish for the brethren, and especially when they are strangers;


 the Bible also reminds us that we are _all_ strangers, temporary sojourners. God says, “. . . [F]or the land is mine, and you are but strangers, resident with Me” (Leviticus 25:23). Muhammad makes the same point. When we forget that in a sense we too are strangers, we push God out of our world. An 18th century Hassidic teaching put it this way: “If we act as _gerim_ [strangers, sojourners] in the world . . . then God will be a permanent resident among us . . . But if we act as permanent residents . . . then God will at best be a _ger_ [stranger, sojourner] among us.”*


----------



## Coyote

So, to sum it up, we have this.

A lot of claims about sexual harassment and  rape by migrants.

If we break it down most of it seems to fall into harassment.  Countries are offering  classes on their culture and how women are to be treated.  This certainly makes sense given vast cultural differences among immigrants. What surprises me is it wasn't done  before. The US has long do everything that sort of thing going as part of the aculturation process. 

We also have a ton of news articles which seem to range from fairly factual to over the top fear mongering.

We have evidence that in a 2014 music festival police might have covered up reports of assault.  So in 2015, police took it more seriously, and out of 170000 participants, there were maybe 20 complaints filed.

When you have so much contradictory and emotion driven info, it's more helpful to look at each country individually since laws differ, and to look at actual criminal statics for trends.  Thus, far, in Sweden, over the last decade they have remained largely the same for violent crime and no one has offered any actual data to the contrary.

Looking at data and asking these questions rather the simply jumping on the bandwagon, is not supporting rape or so-called rape jihad, it's questioning conclusions that don't appear to be supported by data but by fear and anti-immigrant hysteria.  Like the no go zone claims.


----------



## Bleipriester

Coyote said:


> ...with a little science over hype
> 
> 
> *How Anti-Immigration Activists Misuse Rape Statistics*
> _The Internet has brought an enormous mass of knowledge to the fingertips of everyone with a computer, smartphone or tablet. Never before have so many individuals been so close to true scientific facts about the world, from fun facts about animals to the latest crime statistics. Large communities with blogs, forums and social media groups have grown up around a wide variety of special interests and it has become a powerful tool for communication, cooperation and the advancement of human knowledge.
> *
> 
> However, this has also led to the creation of ideologically isolated Internet communities, where faulty claims and misunderstandings of statistics and empirical evidence gets repeated in an endless echo chamber and all refutations are either ignored, misrepresented or subjected to ideologically driven rejection, often with stale references to supposed “political correctness”, as if that was a statistically mature rebuttal.*
> 
> 
> This article will show that according to crime victim surveys, *the actual rate of sex crimes has been more or less unchanged in Sweden between 2005 and 2014, despite the fact that immigration has increased during the same time period. *Instead, the increasing rates of reported rapes are influenced by expansion of the legal rape definition, an increase in the tendency to report rapes, police efforts to classify each individual rape as a separate crime and their tendency to classify any sex crime that could potentially be rape as rape. It will also demonstrate that reported rates between countries such as Sweden and Denmark cannot be naively compared to do the large difference in legal rape definition and police registration methods._
> 
> _
> ....
> *Conclusion*
> 
> 
> The moral of the story is that you should not get your information about crime statistics from shady blogs who make trivial statistical errors (like confusing reported and actual crimes) or Youtube videos*. Instead, go to the original scientific papers or crime victim surveys, read them and understand the methodology, results, limitations and conclusions. *There are no shortcuts to substantial knowledge.
> 
> 
> The increasing rates of reported rape in Sweden is primarily caused by a repeated expansion of the rape definition, the fact that police is consciously reported all rapes as individual reports and an observed increase in the tendency to report rape. The differences between rates of reported rape between e. g. Sweden and Denmark is caused by differences in rape definition, differences in registration methods and efforts to rape all sex crimes that might be rape as rape.
> 
> 
> In the end, it is doubly ironic that anti-immigration activists say that they refuse to read mainstream media because of its bias, yet (1) are strongly influenced by the increase in sensationalist coverage of violent crime by mainstream media and (2) are so willing to believe claims made by “alternative” media that are unsupported and often contradicted by actual crime victim survey results._​
> *Edited to correct link.*


Tell this the victims.


----------



## Meathead

Coyote said:


> So, to sum it up, we have this.
> 
> A lot of claims about sexual harassment and  rape by migrants.
> 
> If we break it down most of it seems to fall into harassment.  Countries are offering  classes on their culture and how women are to be treated.  This certainly makes sense given vast cultural differences among immigrants. What surprises me is it wasn't done  before. The US has long do everything that sort of thing going as part of the aculturation process.
> 
> We also have a ton of news articles which seem to range from fairly factual to over the top fear mongering.
> 
> We have evidence that in a 2014 music festival police might have covered up reports of assault.  So in 2015, police took it more seriously, and out of 170000 participants, there were maybe 20 complaints filed.
> 
> When you have so much contradictory and emotion driven info, it's more helpful to look at each country individually since laws differ, and to look at actual criminal statics for trends.  Thus, far, in Sweden, over the last decade they have remained largely the same for violent crime and no one has offered any actual data to the contrary.
> 
> Looking at data and asking these questions rather the simply jumping on the bandwagon, is not supporting rape or so-called rape jihad, it's questioning conclusions that don't appear to be supported by data but by fear and anti-immigrant hysteria.  Like the no go zone claims.


Learn to write. Stop supporting rape regardless of who commits it. Stop being a ditz.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Bleipriester said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...with a little science over hype
> 
> 
> *How Anti-Immigration Activists Misuse Rape Statistics*
> _The Internet has brought an enormous mass of knowledge to the fingertips of everyone with a computer, smartphone or tablet. Never before have so many individuals been so close to true scientific facts about the world, from fun facts about animals to the latest crime statistics. Large communities with blogs, forums and social media groups have grown up around a wide variety of special interests and it has become a powerful tool for communication, cooperation and the advancement of human knowledge.
> *
> 
> However, this has also led to the creation of ideologically isolated Internet communities, where faulty claims and misunderstandings of statistics and empirical evidence gets repeated in an endless echo chamber and all refutations are either ignored, misrepresented or subjected to ideologically driven rejection, often with stale references to supposed “political correctness”, as if that was a statistically mature rebuttal.*
> 
> 
> This article will show that according to crime victim surveys, *the actual rate of sex crimes has been more or less unchanged in Sweden between 2005 and 2014, despite the fact that immigration has increased during the same time period. *Instead, the increasing rates of reported rapes are influenced by expansion of the legal rape definition, an increase in the tendency to report rapes, police efforts to classify each individual rape as a separate crime and their tendency to classify any sex crime that could potentially be rape as rape. It will also demonstrate that reported rates between countries such as Sweden and Denmark cannot be naively compared to do the large difference in legal rape definition and police registration methods._
> 
> _
> ....
> *Conclusion*
> 
> 
> The moral of the story is that you should not get your information about crime statistics from shady blogs who make trivial statistical errors (like confusing reported and actual crimes) or Youtube videos*. Instead, go to the original scientific papers or crime victim surveys, read them and understand the methodology, results, limitations and conclusions. *There are no shortcuts to substantial knowledge.
> 
> 
> The increasing rates of reported rape in Sweden is primarily caused by a repeated expansion of the rape definition, the fact that police is consciously reported all rapes as individual reports and an observed increase in the tendency to report rape. The differences between rates of reported rape between e. g. Sweden and Denmark is caused by differences in rape definition, differences in registration methods and efforts to rape all sex crimes that might be rape as rape.
> 
> 
> In the end, it is doubly ironic that anti-immigration activists say that they refuse to read mainstream media because of its bias, yet (1) are strongly influenced by the increase in sensationalist coverage of violent crime by mainstream media and (2) are so willing to believe claims made by “alternative” media that are unsupported and often contradicted by actual crime victim survey results._​
> *Edited to correct link.*
> 
> 
> 
> Tell this the victims.
Click to expand...



 Better yet -- any defender of rape jihad should tell the brothers, fathers and uncles of the victims.

 I'm hoping that they have the good sense to share their revolting opinions in a dark alley, too.


----------



## Bleipriester

Dogmaphobe said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...with a little science over hype
> 
> 
> *How Anti-Immigration Activists Misuse Rape Statistics*
> _The Internet has brought an enormous mass of knowledge to the fingertips of everyone with a computer, smartphone or tablet. Never before have so many individuals been so close to true scientific facts about the world, from fun facts about animals to the latest crime statistics. Large communities with blogs, forums and social media groups have grown up around a wide variety of special interests and it has become a powerful tool for communication, cooperation and the advancement of human knowledge.
> *
> 
> However, this has also led to the creation of ideologically isolated Internet communities, where faulty claims and misunderstandings of statistics and empirical evidence gets repeated in an endless echo chamber and all refutations are either ignored, misrepresented or subjected to ideologically driven rejection, often with stale references to supposed “political correctness”, as if that was a statistically mature rebuttal.*
> 
> 
> This article will show that according to crime victim surveys, *the actual rate of sex crimes has been more or less unchanged in Sweden between 2005 and 2014, despite the fact that immigration has increased during the same time period. *Instead, the increasing rates of reported rapes are influenced by expansion of the legal rape definition, an increase in the tendency to report rapes, police efforts to classify each individual rape as a separate crime and their tendency to classify any sex crime that could potentially be rape as rape. It will also demonstrate that reported rates between countries such as Sweden and Denmark cannot be naively compared to do the large difference in legal rape definition and police registration methods._
> 
> _
> ....
> *Conclusion*
> 
> 
> The moral of the story is that you should not get your information about crime statistics from shady blogs who make trivial statistical errors (like confusing reported and actual crimes) or Youtube videos*. Instead, go to the original scientific papers or crime victim surveys, read them and understand the methodology, results, limitations and conclusions. *There are no shortcuts to substantial knowledge.
> 
> 
> The increasing rates of reported rape in Sweden is primarily caused by a repeated expansion of the rape definition, the fact that police is consciously reported all rapes as individual reports and an observed increase in the tendency to report rape. The differences between rates of reported rape between e. g. Sweden and Denmark is caused by differences in rape definition, differences in registration methods and efforts to rape all sex crimes that might be rape as rape.
> 
> 
> In the end, it is doubly ironic that anti-immigration activists say that they refuse to read mainstream media because of its bias, yet (1) are strongly influenced by the increase in sensationalist coverage of violent crime by mainstream media and (2) are so willing to believe claims made by “alternative” media that are unsupported and often contradicted by actual crime victim survey results._​
> *Edited to correct link.*
> 
> 
> 
> Tell this the victims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Better yet -- any defender of rape jihad should tell the brothers, fathers and uncles of the victims.
> 
> I'm hoping that they have the good sense to share their revolting opinions in a dark alley, too.
Click to expand...

We don´t have a defender here but a denier.


----------



## gtopa1

Tommy Tainant said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> As we can see from this thread it is quite easy for the right to inflame hatred. Their targets are not too bright and they tend to only believe sources that confirm their low information prejudices.
> 
> Look at the cheerleaders on here for Islamophobia. One is a big supporter of Israel and would like to see all muslim children slaughtered. One is a rabid nazi who would like to see ALL people of colour chemically castrated.
> 
> You arent going to see a reasoned debate from this type of individual.
> 
> Anybody who has a different view is denounced as a rape apologist or a muslim savage or a woman hater.
> 
> Its a classic Hilterian tactic for stifling debate. If you can scream loud enough you can win the debate.
> 
> Are there issues with migrants in Europe ? Of course there are.
> 
> Is the next apocalypse about to happen ? Is it fuck.
> 
> Maybe a bit more time spent understanding why these people are in Europe might enlighten the ignorant a little bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some of that stuff is slanderous. Even libellous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical neo marxist tactics when they cant produce an argument, that is why tainted is wrong 100% of the time and has to round up his friends to back him up. They still believe that they are in charge and can do what they want, isnt it grand when they are shown they cant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here is a man who knows all about libel. He is saying that Gordon Brown is a paedo on another thread.
> Such is the mentality of the haters.
Click to expand...


The allegations of the VIP paedophile plot further shred respect for key institutions | Andrew Rawnsley

I am so glad that a communist like yourself is so trusting of your Political leaders. I wouldn't be vouching for any of them until AFTER the inquiry. 

Greg


----------



## Meathead

Rape is great until it happens to you I guess.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Coyote said:


> Funny thing is...I simply can't find anything you've posted on it when it doesn't involve Muslims
> 
> Surely you must have if I'm lying...



If you can't "find anything," then you acknowledge that your claim that I "support it when it's no by Muslims" is a slanderous lie.

Hey, fish swim, leftists lie.

It's what you do.


----------



## Uncensored2008

guno said:


> Imperius said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh, so we link to an image that says  "Only Jesus can build a bridge to heaven using only two pieces of wood."
> 
> But forget the other side of that deal. Not everyone gets into heaven, not everyone is allowed into heaven, not even on that bridge Jesus built with two pieces of wood. Hence the words Jesus spoke in Matthew 7:23.
> 
> Meaning, that just like immigration laws which set the standard for those who want to get into our country, there are also standards set by God for those who wish to enter into the kingdom of heaven.
> 
> 
> 
> how  come you rightwing christer always leave this out of your jebus talks
> 
> Matthew 25:35-46
> 
> 
> 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.' "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?
> 
> 3 John 1:5
> 
> Beloved, you are acting faithfully in whatever you accomplish for the brethren, and especially when they are strangers;
> 
> 
> the Bible also reminds us that we are _all_ strangers, temporary sojourners. God says, “. . . [F]or the land is mine, and you are but strangers, resident with Me” (Leviticus 25:23). Muhammad makes the same point. When we forget that in a sense we too are strangers, we push God out of our world. An 18th century Hassidic teaching put it this way: “If we act as _gerim_ [strangers, sojourners] in the world . . . then God will be a permanent resident among us . . . But if we act as permanent residents . . . then God will at best be a _ger_ [stranger, sojourner] among us.”*
Click to expand...


Fuck off batshit.

Go pull the wings off of flies for Allah, or something.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Meathead said:


> Rape is great until it happens to you I guess.



Anything that furthers party goals is okay with Coyote.

Rape is only wrong if it doesn't further the goals of the party.


----------



## Tilly

Greece having imaginary sexual assault problems also:

*‘Sexual assaults on children’ at Greek refugee camps*
Charities claim youngsters and women are too afraid to leave tents after dark at government-run camps




 Children inside a camp for refugees and migrants in an abandoned factory in Thessaloniki. Photograph: Sakis Mitrolidis/AFP/Getty Images


Mark Townsend

@townsendmark
Saturday 13 August 2016 15.11 BSTLast modified on Monday 22 August 2016 14.54 BST


Children as young as seven have been sexually assaulted in official European refugee camps, the _Observer_ has been told. The claims come as testimony emerges suggesting that some camps are so unsafe that youngsters are too terrified to leave their tents at night.

Charities and human rights groups allege that children stranded in supposedly safe camps in Greece that were built to deal with Europe’s migration crisis – many of whom are likely to be eligible to claim asylum in the UK – have been sexually abused.

In one government-run camp, in a former Softex toilet roll factory on the outskirts of Thessaloniki, aid organisations claim that the level of risk of sexual attack is so acute that women are too afraid to visit the camp toilets alone at night...

‘Sexual assaults on children’ at Greek refugee camps


----------



## Tilly

Same abuses were also reported in Germany:

*Rape and child abuse 'are rife in German refugee camps': Unsegregated conditions blamed as women are 'seen as fair game' in overcrowded migrant centres*

*Abuses said to be taking place among 5,000 migrants at camp in Giessen*
*Fear the number of unreported rapes and sexual assaults is significant*
*It may be taking place at overcrowded refugee centres across the country*
By ALLAN HALL IN BERLIN FOR MAILONLINE

PUBLISHED: 19:23, 24 September 2015 | UPDATED: 05:37, 25 September 2015

A culture of rape and sexual abuse is being allowed to take hold in asylum centres across Germany as Europe struggles to cope with the migrant crisis, it has been alleged,

Women’s rights groups and politicians have highlighted assaults against women and children in at least one camp.

And they suggest such incidents may be widespread, with many going unreported to the police.

Campaigners also claimed some men saw unaccompanied women as ‘fair game’, and also blamed conditions in which occupants were unsegregated by gender or nationality....

...
 A letter addressed to the Minister of Integration and Social Affairs in the state of Hesse, where the centre is based, *from four women’s organisations described a ‘culture of rape and violence’.*

The letter, written on August 18, stated: ‘It is a fact that women and children are unprotected. This situation is opportune to those men who already regard women as their inferior and treat unaccompanied women as “fair game”. *As a consequence, there are reports of numerous rapes, sexual assaults and increasingly of forced prostitution. These are not isolated incidents.’*



There are fears the number of unreported cases of rape and sexual assault at the Geissen camp 


Women were often too afraid to walk around the camp even during the day, volunteers claimed, while some victims are too terrified to report sexual assaults by the men.

A police spokesman said there were ‘probably’ many unreported sexual abuses. Giessen City Councillor Astrid Eibelshaeuser said: ‘We know there is rape happening.’

Johannes-Wilhelm Roerig, the federal commissioner for child sexual abuse issues, said: ‘I am most concerned that refugee children in camps, gymnasiums, or former barracks are not sufficiently protected from sexual assault.’...


Rape and child abuse are 'rife in German asylum centres'


----------



## Coyote

Uncensored2008 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny thing is...I simply can't find anything you've posted on it when it doesn't involve Muslims
> 
> Surely you must have if I'm lying...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you can't "find anything," then you acknowledge that your claim that I "support it when it's no by Muslims" is a slanderous lie.
> 
> Hey, fish swim, leftists lie.
> 
> It's what you do.
Click to expand...

Funny how that works isn't? You can use that same tactic on others, but when it's thrown back at you it's a slanderous lie?


----------



## Coyote

Tilly said:


> Same abuses were also reported in Germany:
> 
> *Rape and child abuse 'are rife in German refugee camps': Unsegregated conditions blamed as women are 'seen as fair game' in overcrowded migrant centres*
> 
> *Abuses said to be taking place among 5,000 migrants at camp in Giessen*
> *Fear the number of unreported rapes and sexual assaults is significant*
> *It may be taking place at overcrowded refugee centres across the country*
> By ALLAN HALL IN BERLIN FOR MAILONLINE
> 
> PUBLISHED: 19:23, 24 September 2015 | UPDATED: 05:37, 25 September 2015
> 
> A culture of rape and sexual abuse is being allowed to take hold in asylum centres across Germany as Europe struggles to cope with the migrant crisis, it has been alleged,
> 
> Women’s rights groups and politicians have highlighted assaults against women and children in at least one camp.
> 
> And they suggest such incidents may be widespread, with many going unreported to the police.
> 
> Campaigners also claimed some men saw unaccompanied women as ‘fair game’, and also blamed conditions in which occupants were unsegregated by gender or nationality....
> 
> ...
> A letter addressed to the Minister of Integration and Social Affairs in the state of Hesse, where the centre is based, *from four women’s organisations described a ‘culture of rape and violence’.*
> 
> The letter, written on August 18, stated: ‘It is a fact that women and children are unprotected. This situation is opportune to those men who already regard women as their inferior and treat unaccompanied women as “fair game”. *As a consequence, there are reports of numerous rapes, sexual assaults and increasingly of forced prostitution. These are not isolated incidents.’*
> 
> 
> 
> There are fears the number of unreported cases of rape and sexual assault at the Geissen camp
> 
> 
> Women were often too afraid to walk around the camp even during the day, volunteers claimed, while some victims are too terrified to report sexual assaults by the men.
> 
> A police spokesman said there were ‘probably’ many unreported sexual abuses. Giessen City Councillor Astrid Eibelshaeuser said: ‘We know there is rape happening.’
> 
> Johannes-Wilhelm Roerig, the federal commissioner for child sexual abuse issues, said: ‘I am most concerned that refugee children in camps, gymnasiums, or former barracks are not sufficiently protected from sexual assault.’...
> 
> 
> Rape and child abuse are 'rife in German asylum centres'



This particular article illustrates exactly what is happening.  The conditions in these refugee centers are horrible and overcrowded and violence against women and children is endemic.  The article I posted also went into this issue, and noted it is endemic in all refugee centers regardless of religion.  There was a recent expose on an Australian migrant detention center on an island where abuse, especially against children was uncovered.  Women and girls in some of these facilities also become prey to human human traffickers or Arab men looking for cheap sex sanctified by a temporary marriage.

Few seem to really care what goes on in these places.

No one is saying it's all imaginary, but there is no data to support a rape epidemic or rape jihad.


----------



## Coyote

Meathead said:


> Rape is great until it happens to you I guess.



If you think so.


----------



## Coyote

Meathead said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, to sum it up, we have this.
> 
> A lot of claims about sexual harassment and  rape by migrants.
> 
> If we break it down most of it seems to fall into harassment.  Countries are offering  classes on their culture and how women are to be treated.  This certainly makes sense given vast cultural differences among immigrants. What surprises me is it wasn't done  before. The US has long do everything that sort of thing going as part of the aculturation process.
> 
> We also have a ton of news articles which seem to range from fairly factual to over the top fear mongering.
> 
> We have evidence that in a 2014 music festival police might have covered up reports of assault.  So in 2015, police took it more seriously, and out of 170000 participants, there were maybe 20 complaints filed.
> 
> When you have so much contradictory and emotion driven info, it's more helpful to look at each country individually since laws differ, and to look at actual criminal statics for trends.  Thus, far, in Sweden, over the last decade they have remained largely the same for violent crime and no one has offered any actual data to the contrary.
> 
> Looking at data and asking these questions rather the simply jumping on the bandwagon, is not supporting rape or so-called rape jihad, it's questioning conclusions that don't appear to be supported by data but by fear and anti-immigrant hysteria.  Like the no go zone claims.
> 
> 
> 
> Learn to write. Stop supporting rape regardless of who commits it. Stop being a ditz.
Click to expand...


Learn to apply critical thinking for a change.


----------



## Meathead

Coyote said:


> Learn to apply critical thinking for a change.


Critical thinking is exactly how I recognize convoluted BS to further a political agenda. Education is how I recognize semi-literacy. Common sense is how I recognize that you're a ditz. OK?


----------



## Uncensored2008

Coyote said:


> Funny how that works isn't? You can use that same tactic on others, but when it's thrown back at you it's a slanderous lie?



Of course, always accuse your opponent of doing what you yourself do, it's the Alinsky way, and you Bolsheviks follow it closely.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Coyote said:


> This particular article illustrates exactly what is happening.  The conditions in these refugee centers are horrible and overcrowded and violence against women and children is endemic.  The article I posted also went into this issue, and noted it is endemic in all refugee centers regardless of religion.  There was a recent expose on an Australian migrant detention center on an island where abuse, especially against children was uncovered.  Women and girls in some of these facilities also become prey to human human traffickers or Arab men looking for cheap sex sanctified by a temporary marriage.
> 
> Few seem to really care what goes on in these places.
> 
> No one is saying it's all imaginary, but there is no data to support a rape epidemic or rape jihad.



So to recap, the rape Jihad isn't happening; but if it is happening it isn't the fault of your Muslim allies and everyone else does it too.

No doubt the JOOOZZZZ are the real culprits, amirite?


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Uncensored2008 said:


> No doubt the JOOOZZZZ are the real culprits, amirite?




NOW, you've done it, Uncensored.  The floodgates are officially open.

I avidly await her to point out yet again how terrorists who kill Jews are heroic, and there is no reason why the mass murder of Jews should disqualify a terrorist from being nominated for the peace prize.

.....and yes -- she is THAT off her rocker, so thoroughly does she identify with Jihadists.  Whatever twisted psychological malady Rachel Dolezal when it came to her pretending to be black, this  creature has with Islamists. It is the complete rejection of one's own culture and the complete acceptance of a different one.


----------



## Tilly

Even the UNHCR acknowledge migrant rapefugees and paedophile refugees are a problem:

"Refugee and migrant children moving in Europe are at heightened risk of violence and abuse, including sexual violence, especially in overcrowded reception sites, or in many locations where refugees and migrants gather, such as parks, train stations, bus stations and roadsides,” UNHCR spokesperson Melissa Fleming told a news conference in Geneva.

UNHCR concerned at reports of sexual violence against refugee women and children


----------



## Tilly

Lest we forget:

*Iraqi asylum seeker pleads guilty to 'sexual emergency' rape of boy at Vienna public pool*

By Ananya Roy
April 28, 2016 12:25 BST
A 20-year-old Iraqi asylum seeker who was arrested for raping a 10-year-old boy at a public swimming pool in Vienna has plead guilty in an Austrian court on 26 April. During initial interrogations by police he stated the 2 December 2015 attack was due to a "sexual emergency" after not having sex for four months. ...

Iraqi asylum seeker pleads guilty to 'sexual emergency' rape of boy at Vienna public pool


----------



## Meathead

Tilly said:


> Lest we forget:
> 
> *Iraqi asylum seeker pleads guilty to 'sexual emergency' rape of boy at Vienna public pool*
> 
> By Ananya Roy
> April 28, 2016 12:25 BST
> A 20-year-old Iraqi asylum seeker who was arrested for raping a 10-year-old boy at a public swimming pool in Vienna has plead guilty in an Austrian court on 26 April. During initial interrogations by police he stated the 2 December 2015 attack was due to a "sexual emergency" after not having sex for four months. ...
> 
> Iraqi asylum seeker pleads guilty to 'sexual emergency' rape of boy at Vienna public pool


It's OK, shagging young boys and sheep is part of their culture. Unaccompanied young women who dress inappropriately are are obviously fair game - that's a given,


----------



## Tilly

Meathead said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lest we forget:
> 
> *Iraqi asylum seeker pleads guilty to 'sexual emergency' rape of boy at Vienna public pool*
> 
> By Ananya Roy
> April 28, 2016 12:25 BST
> A 20-year-old Iraqi asylum seeker who was arrested for raping a 10-year-old boy at a public swimming pool in Vienna has plead guilty in an Austrian court on 26 April. During initial interrogations by police he stated the 2 December 2015 attack was due to a "sexual emergency" after not having sex for four months. ...
> 
> Iraqi asylum seeker pleads guilty to 'sexual emergency' rape of boy at Vienna public pool
> 
> 
> 
> It's OK, shagging young boys and sheep is part of their culture. Unaccompanied young women who dress inappropriately are are obviously fair game - that's a given,
Click to expand...

Looks that way, doesn't it? Utterly disgusting that women in particular would go out of their way to pretend the rape of European women, children, and refugee women and children is a non event. If anything, an effort is made to cover up this stuff. Another story:

*Woman 'gang-raped in refugee camp ordered to stay SILENT by no-borders activists'*
*A HUMAN rights activist was raped a gang of migrants at a refugee camp – but she was pressured to stay silent in case she damaged the cause, it has been claimed.*

*
It is claimed she was trapped in a shower block near the camp but loud music meant her cries for help went unheard during the horror attack.

The woman was told not to report the alleged crime by colleagues working for far-left group No Borders, according to reports.

They are said to have told her speaking out would have damaged their cause – to support freedom of movement and oppose migration controls.

She reportedly remained silent for over a month as a result.

She and her colleagues were stationed at a makeshift camp in Ventimiglia, Italy, on the border with France.

It became a flashpoint at the start of Europe's humanitarian crisis earlier this year after a local crackdown on border controls. ...

Woman 'gang-raped in refugee camp ordered to stay SILENT by no-borders activists'*


----------



## Weatherman2020

Just remember - Obama insists one in four college women in America get sexually assaulted.....


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Tilly said:


> Utterly disgusting that women in particular would go out of their way to pretend the rape of European women, children, and refugee women and children is a non event.





.....or at least a creature that CLAIMS to be a woman.

 Considering the agenda involved and the track record of incredible deceit, I don't know if we really have any solid reasons to believe the claim.

 What we see happening in Europe where rape is part of the Islamization process, so, too, do Islamists work the internet. They play something akin to a good cop/bad cop routine where the rapists do the dirty work and the online propagandists provide the rhetorical.

If they can establish that it is the right, proper duty of Western leftists to defend the Jihad, half their work is done.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> So, to sum it up, we have this.
> 
> A lot of claims about sexual harassment and  rape by migrants.
> 
> If we break it down most of it seems to fall into harassment.  Countries are offering  classes on their culture and how women are to be treated.  This certainly makes sense given vast cultural differences among immigrants. What surprises me is it wasn't done  before. The US has long do everything that sort of thing going as part of the aculturation process.
> 
> We also have a ton of news articles which seem to range from fairly factual to over the top fear mongering.
> 
> We have evidence that in a 2014 music festival police might have covered up reports of assault.  So in 2015, police took it more seriously, and out of 170000 participants, there were maybe 20 complaints filed.
> 
> When you have so much contradictory and emotion driven info, it's more helpful to look at each country individually since laws differ, and to look at actual criminal statics for trends.  Thus, far, in Sweden, over the last decade they have remained largely the same for violent crime and no one has offered any actual data to the contrary.
> 
> Looking at data and asking these questions rather the simply jumping on the bandwagon, is not supporting rape or so-called rape jihad, it's questioning conclusions that don't appear to be supported by data but by fear and anti-immigrant hysteria.  Like the no go zone claims.



This is merely damage control, in conclusion, the tactics are clear:
muddy the waters, then mix the problem, turning a blind eye off the most obvious and clearly presented facts- to make it seem "casual". And A LOT of baiting, word play and or cherry picking to confuse.

Then suggesting that the cause is anything (class, racism, lack of competence by govt)* but the rapists themselves.
*
It's not "cultural difference" but exactly the lack of culture and any traits of basic human empathy. Men rape not because of culture but because they're weak cowards. And those who grow their boys this way must have an agenda or just don't think of women in terms of being human.

Thanks to others who still defend these moral boundaries.


----------



## Coyote

Meathead said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Learn to apply critical thinking for a change.
> 
> 
> 
> Critical thinking is exactly how I recognize convoluted BS to further a political agenda. Education is how I recognize semi-literacy. Common sense is how I recognize that you're a ditz. OK?
Click to expand...

Ok. I understand that critical thinking is not a skill you possess.  You may sit down now.


----------



## Tilly

The police cannot even go about their business:

*Police flee for their lives at Swedish migrant camp after they are surrounded by screaming mob as they try to relocate ten-year-old boy ‘who had been raped multiple times’ *

*The attack allegedly happened in the town of Västerås in central Sweden *
*Staff at the refugee centre feared the 10-year-old boy was being abused *
*They failed to remove the child after the refugee would not let the child go*
*Ten police officers failed to safe the child after being attacked by the mob*
*See more news on the migrant crisis at www.dailymail.co.uk/migrantcrisis*
By DARREN BOYLE FOR MAILONLINE

PUBLISHED: 16:21, 26 January 2016 | UPDATED: 18:27, 26 January 2016


Swedish police were forced to run for their lives after being attacked by a mob of asylum seekers as they tried to relocate amid allegations a 10-year-old boy had been 'raped repeatedly' at a refugee centre. 

Officers entered the centre in Västerås to save the young boy who had been reportedly attacked repeatedly by asylum seekers at the centre. 

Initially, staff in the centre tried to remove the boy but were stopped by the mob. Instead the staff called police for backup. ...

Police flee for their lives at Swedish migrant camp after mob attack


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Learn to apply critical thinking for a change.
> 
> 
> 
> Critical thinking is exactly how I recognize convoluted BS to further a political agenda. Education is how I recognize semi-literacy. Common sense is how I recognize that you're a ditz. OK?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok. I understand that critical thinking is not a skill you possess.  You may sit down now.
Click to expand...


Can one be more infantile while apologizing for rape?


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, to sum it up, we have this.
> 
> A lot of claims about sexual harassment and  rape by migrants.
> 
> If we break it down most of it seems to fall into harassment.  Countries are offering  classes on their culture and how women are to be treated.  This certainly makes sense given vast cultural differences among immigrants. What surprises me is it wasn't done  before. The US has long do everything that sort of thing going as part of the aculturation process.
> 
> We also have a ton of news articles which seem to range from fairly factual to over the top fear mongering.
> 
> We have evidence that in a 2014 music festival police might have covered up reports of assault.  So in 2015, police took it more seriously, and out of 170000 participants, there were maybe 20 complaints filed.
> 
> When you have so much contradictory and emotion driven info, it's more helpful to look at each country individually since laws differ, and to look at actual criminal statics for trends.  Thus, far, in Sweden, over the last decade they have remained largely the same for violent crime and no one has offered any actual data to the contrary.
> 
> Looking at data and asking these questions rather the simply jumping on the bandwagon, is not supporting rape or so-called rape jihad, it's questioning conclusions that don't appear to be supported by data but by fear and anti-immigrant hysteria.  Like the no go zone claims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is merely damage control, in conclusion, the tactics are clear:
> muddy the waters, then mix the problem, turning a blind eye off the most obvious and clearly presented facts- to make it seem "casual". And A LOT of baiting, word play and or cherry picking to confuse.
> 
> Then suggesting that the cause is anything (class, racism, lack of competence by govt)* but the rapists themselves.
> *
> It's not "cultural difference" but exactly the lack of culture and any traits of basic human empathy. Men rape not because of culture but because they're weak cowards. And those who grow their boys this way must have an agenda or just don't think of women in terms of being human.
> 
> Thanks to others who still defend these moral boundaries.
Click to expand...


Speaking of moral boundaries...you have yet to present actual data or crime stats showing there is a rape epidemic or rape jihad. I presented clear and obvious facts, which you choose to ignore.

Men rape for many reasons, it's far from being as simplistic as you try to present.  Men rape as a weapon of war. We see it in the Syrian civil war and in the decades old conflict in the Congo. Men rape because their culture places little value on women, or women of certain castes, classes, etc.  Men rape for power, because they can. The causes are many but only one person is RESPONSIBLE, and it is not excusable.  But neither is the concerted attempt to demonize a group of people when the evidence doesn't support it.

You totally discount crime stats, the fact that rape is legally defined quite differently across different countries and insist we look at it as a whole.

Where is this rape epidemic when violent crime rates remain unchanged in Sweden?


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Learn to apply critical thinking for a change.
> 
> 
> 
> Critical thinking is exactly how I recognize convoluted BS to further a political agenda. Education is how I recognize semi-literacy. Common sense is how I recognize that you're a ditz. OK?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok. I understand that critical thinking is not a skill you possess.  You may sit down now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can one be more infantile while apologizing for rape?
Click to expand...

Who's apologizing?  Oh, I see, asking for facts becomes "apologizing" when you can't supply the data.


----------



## Coyote

Uncensored2008 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> This particular article illustrates exactly what is happening.  The conditions in these refugee centers are horrible and overcrowded and violence against women and children is endemic.  The article I posted also went into this issue, and noted it is endemic in all refugee centers regardless of religion.  There was a recent expose on an Australian migrant detention center on an island where abuse, especially against children was uncovered.  Women and girls in some of these facilities also become prey to human human traffickers or Arab men looking for cheap sex sanctified by a temporary marriage.
> 
> Few seem to really care what goes on in these places.
> 
> No one is saying it's all imaginary, but there is no data to support a rape epidemic or rape jihad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So to recap, the rape Jihad isn't happening; but if it is happening it isn't the fault of your Muslim allies and everyone else does it too.
> 
> No doubt the JOOOZZZZ are the real culprits, amirite?
Click to expand...

What do Jews have to do with anything? Are you an antisemite then?


----------



## Coyote

Meathead said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Learn to apply critical thinking for a change.
> 
> 
> 
> Critical thinking is exactly how I recognize convoluted BS to further a political agenda. Education is how I recognize semi-literacy. Common sense is how I recognize that you're a ditz.
Click to expand...




Uncensored2008 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how that works isn't? You can use that same tactic on others, but when it's thrown back at you it's a slanderous lie?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, always accuse your opponent of doing what you yourself do, it's the Alinsky way, and you Bolsheviks follow it closely.
Click to expand...


In other words, you can't take what you dish out.  What a whiner.


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Utterly disgusting that women in particular would go out of their way to pretend the rape of European women, children, and refugee women and children is a non event.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .....or at least a creature that CLAIMS to be a woman.
> 
> Considering the agenda involved and the track record of incredible deceit, I don't know if we really have any solid reasons to believe the claim.
> 
> What we see happening in Europe where rape is part of the Islamization process, so, too, do Islamists work the internet. They play something akin to a good cop/bad cop routine where the rapists do the dirty work and the online propagandists provide the rhetorical.
> 
> If they can establish that it is the right, proper duty of Western leftists to defend the Jihad, half their work is done.
Click to expand...


So we get that you have a rabid and psychotic hatred of Muslims and heroize  a man who went across the country electrocuting live animals on stage...

Is this why you chose to use a discredited poll from a hate site instead of Pew, in order to slander American Muslims? 

You keep ducking, dodging and deflecting.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, to sum it up, we have this.
> 
> A lot of claims about sexual harassment and  rape by migrants.
> 
> If we break it down most of it seems to fall into harassment.  Countries are offering  classes on their culture and how women are to be treated.  This certainly makes sense given vast cultural differences among immigrants. What surprises me is it wasn't done  before. The US has long do everything that sort of thing going as part of the aculturation process.
> 
> We also have a ton of news articles which seem to range from fairly factual to over the top fear mongering.
> 
> We have evidence that in a 2014 music festival police might have covered up reports of assault.  So in 2015, police took it more seriously, and out of 170000 participants, there were maybe 20 complaints filed.
> 
> When you have so much contradictory and emotion driven info, it's more helpful to look at each country individually since laws differ, and to look at actual criminal statics for trends.  Thus, far, in Sweden, over the last decade they have remained largely the same for violent crime and no one has offered any actual data to the contrary.
> 
> Looking at data and asking these questions rather the simply jumping on the bandwagon, is not supporting rape or so-called rape jihad, it's questioning conclusions that don't appear to be supported by data but by fear and anti-immigrant hysteria.  Like the no go zone claims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is merely damage control, in conclusion, the tactics are clear:
> muddy the waters, then mix the problem, turning a blind eye off the most obvious and clearly presented facts- to make it seem "casual". And A LOT of baiting, word play and or cherry picking to confuse.
> 
> Then suggesting that the cause is anything (class, racism, lack of competence by govt)* but the rapists themselves.
> *
> It's not "cultural difference" but exactly the lack of culture and any traits of basic human empathy. Men rape not because of culture but because they're weak cowards. And those who grow their boys this way must have an agenda or just don't think of women in terms of being human.
> 
> Thanks to others who still defend these moral boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speaking of moral boundaries...you have yet to present actual data or crime stats showing there is a rape epidemic or rape jihad. I presented clear and obvious facts, which you choose to ignore.
> 
> Men rape for many reasons, it's far from being as simplistic as you try to present.  Men rape as a weapon of war. We see it in the Syrian civil war and in the decades old conflict in the Congo. Men rape because their culture places little value on women, or women of certain castes, classes, etc.  Men rape for power, because they can. The causes are many but only one person is RESPONSIBLE, and it is not excusable.  But neither is the concerted attempt to demonize a group of people when the evidence doesn't support it.
> 
> You totally discount crime stats, the fact that rape is legally defined quite differently across different countries and insist we look at it as a whole.
> 
> Where is this rape epidemic when violent crime rates remain unchanged in Sweden?
Click to expand...


merry go round....

I have presented actual data, you didn't like it.
It showed us what I've told you early in the conversation: that stats can, and definitely being tailored. But you keep on asking for the same thing over and over because it's the only data that suits you - but again TAILORED.

Just look at the German law, in those cases ethnicities are not mentioned.

However being reasonable, it's easy to find common basic denominator in all European laws to look at the picture wholly...but you keep repeating "Sweden changed the laws..." again and again.
That exactly why we HAVE to look at Europe at whole.

C'mon those rules are not from Mars and Saturn, they were formulated on one single continent by people of common history and they all deal with 1 common thing- rape and sexual assaults.

But even so, if we look and take in account each countries' specifics morals as transformed into those laws (which we should because that's the beauty of being a free independent state) we will see the DISRESPECT and actual RAPE as SEEN BY THEM..why should migrants be held to different standards if they come to live in peace (rather than dictate their own rules)?

It's not for you or the migrant rapists to claim what's rape and what's not- it's the right of the people and that's how you should look at it to be objective.

In conclusion- if x numbers of European countries claim together to "be raped" it's not your filthy business digging their laws- it's THEIR laws, and the foreigners must change their ways immediately.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, to sum it up, we have this.
> 
> A lot of claims about sexual harassment and  rape by migrants.
> 
> If we break it down most of it seems to fall into harassment.  Countries are offering  classes on their culture and how women are to be treated.  This certainly makes sense given vast cultural differences among immigrants. What surprises me is it wasn't done  before. The US has long do everything that sort of thing going as part of the aculturation process.
> 
> We also have a ton of news articles which seem to range from fairly factual to over the top fear mongering.
> 
> We have evidence that in a 2014 music festival police might have covered up reports of assault.  So in 2015, police took it more seriously, and out of 170000 participants, there were maybe 20 complaints filed.
> 
> When you have so much contradictory and emotion driven info, it's more helpful to look at each country individually since laws differ, and to look at actual criminal statics for trends.  Thus, far, in Sweden, over the last decade they have remained largely the same for violent crime and no one has offered any actual data to the contrary.
> 
> Looking at data and asking these questions rather the simply jumping on the bandwagon, is not supporting rape or so-called rape jihad, it's questioning conclusions that don't appear to be supported by data but by fear and anti-immigrant hysteria.  Like the no go zone claims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is merely damage control, in conclusion, the tactics are clear:
> muddy the waters, then mix the problem, turning a blind eye off the most obvious and clearly presented facts- to make it seem "casual". And A LOT of baiting, word play and or cherry picking to confuse.
> 
> Then suggesting that the cause is anything (class, racism, lack of competence by govt)* but the rapists themselves.
> *
> It's not "cultural difference" but exactly the lack of culture and any traits of basic human empathy. Men rape not because of culture but because they're weak cowards. And those who grow their boys this way must have an agenda or just don't think of women in terms of being human.
> 
> Thanks to others who still defend these moral boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speaking of moral boundaries...you have yet to present actual data or crime stats showing there is a rape epidemic or rape jihad. I presented clear and obvious facts, which you choose to ignore.
> 
> Men rape for many reasons, it's far from being as simplistic as you try to present.  Men rape as a weapon of war. We see it in the Syrian civil war and in the decades old conflict in the Congo. Men rape because their culture places little value on women, or women of certain castes, classes, etc.  Men rape for power, because they can. The causes are many but only one person is RESPONSIBLE, and it is not excusable.  But neither is the concerted attempt to demonize a group of people when the evidence doesn't support it.
> 
> You totally discount crime stats, the fact that rape is legally defined quite differently across different countries and insist we look at it as a whole.
> 
> Where is this rape epidemic when violent crime rates remain unchanged in Sweden?
Click to expand...


All the "reasons" you've mentioned to make it look more "cultural" are exactly the examples of - WEAKNESS (lack of self control) and COWARDICE (low self-esteem).

Those are not men, those are low lifes.


----------



## rylah

*Coyote*

Look I'll give it to you, maybe you have a point we ALL fail to see...maybe.

But you can clearly see that it's the wrong audience, and that you've overstepped many boundaries. It's not that you're 'bad'...it's our 'cultural difference'.

I just don't see a point for you to continue bothering, or even insulting people further, and us being disgusted.

No one benefits, especially since you've gained some really bad reputation in many views...

However if you're going to take advantage of being a mod and keep on communicating carelessly, I think you'll reach a point where people will never forgive you and it will show each time you're here.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it's too much tension, more than in Israel/Palestine.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Utterly disgusting that women in particular would go out of their way to pretend the rape of European women, children, and refugee women and children is a non event.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .....or at least a creature that CLAIMS to be a woman.
> 
> Considering the agenda involved and the track record of incredible deceit, I don't know if we really have any solid reasons to believe the claim.
> 
> What we see happening in Europe where rape is part of the Islamization process, so, too, do Islamists work the internet. They play something akin to a good cop/bad cop routine where the rapists do the dirty work and the online propagandists provide the rhetorical.
> 
> If they can establish that it is the right, proper duty of Western leftists to defend the Jihad, half their work is done.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So we get that you have a rabid and psychotic hatred of Muslims and heroize  a man who went across the country electrocuting live animals on stage...
> 
> Is this why you chose to use a discredited poll from a hate site instead of Pew, in order to slander American Muslims?
> 
> You keep ducking, dodging and deflecting.
Click to expand...



 You need help -- serious help.

 You are delusional.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, to sum it up, we have this.
> 
> A lot of claims about sexual harassment and  rape by migrants.
> 
> If we break it down most of it seems to fall into harassment.  Countries are offering  classes on their culture and how women are to be treated.  This certainly makes sense given vast cultural differences among immigrants. What surprises me is it wasn't done  before. The US has long do everything that sort of thing going as part of the aculturation process.
> 
> We also have a ton of news articles which seem to range from fairly factual to over the top fear mongering.
> 
> We have evidence that in a 2014 music festival police might have covered up reports of assault.  So in 2015, police took it more seriously, and out of 170000 participants, there were maybe 20 complaints filed.
> 
> When you have so much contradictory and emotion driven info, it's more helpful to look at each country individually since laws differ, and to look at actual criminal statics for trends.  Thus, far, in Sweden, over the last decade they have remained largely the same for violent crime and no one has offered any actual data to the contrary.
> 
> Looking at data and asking these questions rather the simply jumping on the bandwagon, is not supporting rape or so-called rape jihad, it's questioning conclusions that don't appear to be supported by data but by fear and anti-immigrant hysteria.  Like the no go zone claims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is merely damage control, in conclusion, the tactics are clear:
> muddy the waters, then mix the problem, turning a blind eye off the most obvious and clearly presented facts- to make it seem "casual". And A LOT of baiting, word play and or cherry picking to confuse.
> 
> Then suggesting that the cause is anything (class, racism, lack of competence by govt)* but the rapists themselves.
> *
> It's not "cultural difference" but exactly the lack of culture and any traits of basic human empathy. Men rape not because of culture but because they're weak cowards. And those who grow their boys this way must have an agenda or just don't think of women in terms of being human.
> 
> Thanks to others who still defend these moral boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speaking of moral boundaries...you have yet to present actual data or crime stats showing there is a rape epidemic or rape jihad. I presented clear and obvious facts, which you choose to ignore.
> 
> Men rape for many reasons, it's far from being as simplistic as you try to present.  Men rape as a weapon of war. We see it in the Syrian civil war and in the decades old conflict in the Congo. Men rape because their culture places little value on women, or women of certain castes, classes, etc.  Men rape for power, because they can. The causes are many but only one person is RESPONSIBLE, and it is not excusable.  But neither is the concerted attempt to demonize a group of people when the evidence doesn't support it.
> 
> You totally discount crime stats, the fact that rape is legally defined quite differently across different countries and insist we look at it as a whole.
> 
> Where is this rape epidemic when violent crime rates remain unchanged in Sweden?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All the "reasons" you've mentioned to make it look more "cultural" are exactly the examples of - WEAKNESS (lack of self control) and COWARDICE (low self-esteem).
> 
> Those are not men, those are low lifes.
Click to expand...


Of course they are low lives.  You really don't think culture has anything to do with how women are treated?


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> *Coyote*
> 
> Look I'll give it to you, maybe you have a point we ALL fail to see...maybe.
> 
> But you can clearly see that it's the wrong audience, and that you've overstepped many boundaries. It's not that you're 'bad'...it's our 'cultural difference'.
> 
> I just don't see a point for you to continue bothering, or even insulting people further, and us being disgusted.
> 
> No one benefits, especially since you've gained some really bad reputation in many views...
> 
> However if you're going to take advantage of being a mod and keep on communicating carelessly, I think you'll reach a point where people will never forgive you and it will show each time you're here.
> 
> Maybe I'm wrong, but it's too much tension, more than in Israel/Palestine.



*What boundaries have I overstepped Rylah?*

Who is "we ALL"?

I put up with a lot of insulting, slander, accusations that can't be backed by links to things I've said.  Are you suggesting I should not defend myself?  Or, give back what I get?  Because, Rylah - after it reaches a certain point with certain people, I no longer care to just ignore it and yes - boundaries have indeed been overstepped.

I am a mod, but I am also a member and everyone of us mods are allowed to post as members here.  I'm willing to bet if I was gung-ho anti-Muslim (or Pro-Israel) - the participants in this thread wouldn't be complaining one iota regardless of how many "boundaries" I overstep.

I put forth my argument with a decent OP and article and and tried to stick to presenting factual arguments.  I stand behind it.  I'm willing to discuss it.  I'm always willing to discuss the issues rather than the people.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, to sum it up, we have this.
> 
> A lot of claims about sexual harassment and  rape by migrants.
> 
> If we break it down most of it seems to fall into harassment.  Countries are offering  classes on their culture and how women are to be treated.  This certainly makes sense given vast cultural differences among immigrants. What surprises me is it wasn't done  before. The US has long do everything that sort of thing going as part of the aculturation process.
> 
> We also have a ton of news articles which seem to range from fairly factual to over the top fear mongering.
> 
> We have evidence that in a 2014 music festival police might have covered up reports of assault.  So in 2015, police took it more seriously, and out of 170000 participants, there were maybe 20 complaints filed.
> 
> When you have so much contradictory and emotion driven info, it's more helpful to look at each country individually since laws differ, and to look at actual criminal statics for trends.  Thus, far, in Sweden, over the last decade they have remained largely the same for violent crime and no one has offered any actual data to the contrary.
> 
> Looking at data and asking these questions rather the simply jumping on the bandwagon, is not supporting rape or so-called rape jihad, it's questioning conclusions that don't appear to be supported by data but by fear and anti-immigrant hysteria.  Like the no go zone claims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is merely damage control, in conclusion, the tactics are clear:
> muddy the waters, then mix the problem, turning a blind eye off the most obvious and clearly presented facts- to make it seem "casual". And A LOT of baiting, word play and or cherry picking to confuse.
> 
> Then suggesting that the cause is anything (class, racism, lack of competence by govt)* but the rapists themselves.
> *
> It's not "cultural difference" but exactly the lack of culture and any traits of basic human empathy. Men rape not because of culture but because they're weak cowards. And those who grow their boys this way must have an agenda or just don't think of women in terms of being human.
> 
> Thanks to others who still defend these moral boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speaking of moral boundaries...you have yet to present actual data or crime stats showing there is a rape epidemic or rape jihad. I presented clear and obvious facts, which you choose to ignore.
> 
> Men rape for many reasons, it's far from being as simplistic as you try to present.  Men rape as a weapon of war. We see it in the Syrian civil war and in the decades old conflict in the Congo. Men rape because their culture places little value on women, or women of certain castes, classes, etc.  Men rape for power, because they can. The causes are many but only one person is RESPONSIBLE, and it is not excusable.  But neither is the concerted attempt to demonize a group of people when the evidence doesn't support it.
> 
> You totally discount crime stats, the fact that rape is legally defined quite differently across different countries and insist we look at it as a whole.
> 
> Where is this rape epidemic when violent crime rates remain unchanged in Sweden?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All the "reasons" you've mentioned to make it look more "cultural" are exactly the examples of - WEAKNESS (lack of self control) and COWARDICE (low self-esteem).
> 
> Those are not men, those are low lifes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course they are low lives.  You really don't think culture has anything to do with how women are treated?
Click to expand...


Of course it has, but in my world "culture" is too high a word for this.
There're patterns in society, those patterns engraved by example figures (hero) for centuries of accepted fashionable activity.

It's like someone can call sacrificing children to Moloch a "culture"..to me it's the lack of it, the lack of basic humanity- savagery.

Rape is only slightly different, they still kill a person, even though maybe not totally physically.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, to sum it up, we have this.
> 
> A lot of claims about sexual harassment and  rape by migrants.
> 
> If we break it down most of it seems to fall into harassment.  Countries are offering  classes on their culture and how women are to be treated.  This certainly makes sense given vast cultural differences among immigrants. What surprises me is it wasn't done  before. The US has long do everything that sort of thing going as part of the aculturation process.
> 
> We also have a ton of news articles which seem to range from fairly factual to over the top fear mongering.
> 
> We have evidence that in a 2014 music festival police might have covered up reports of assault.  So in 2015, police took it more seriously, and out of 170000 participants, there were maybe 20 complaints filed.
> 
> When you have so much contradictory and emotion driven info, it's more helpful to look at each country individually since laws differ, and to look at actual criminal statics for trends.  Thus, far, in Sweden, over the last decade they have remained largely the same for violent crime and no one has offered any actual data to the contrary.
> 
> Looking at data and asking these questions rather the simply jumping on the bandwagon, is not supporting rape or so-called rape jihad, it's questioning conclusions that don't appear to be supported by data but by fear and anti-immigrant hysteria.  Like the no go zone claims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is merely damage control, in conclusion, the tactics are clear:
> muddy the waters, then mix the problem, turning a blind eye off the most obvious and clearly presented facts- to make it seem "casual". And A LOT of baiting, word play and or cherry picking to confuse.
> 
> Then suggesting that the cause is anything (class, racism, lack of competence by govt)* but the rapists themselves.
> *
> It's not "cultural difference" but exactly the lack of culture and any traits of basic human empathy. Men rape not because of culture but because they're weak cowards. And those who grow their boys this way must have an agenda or just don't think of women in terms of being human.
> 
> Thanks to others who still defend these moral boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speaking of moral boundaries...you have yet to present actual data or crime stats showing there is a rape epidemic or rape jihad. I presented clear and obvious facts, which you choose to ignore.
> 
> Men rape for many reasons, it's far from being as simplistic as you try to present.  Men rape as a weapon of war. We see it in the Syrian civil war and in the decades old conflict in the Congo. Men rape because their culture places little value on women, or women of certain castes, classes, etc.  Men rape for power, because they can. The causes are many but only one person is RESPONSIBLE, and it is not excusable.  But neither is the concerted attempt to demonize a group of people when the evidence doesn't support it.
> 
> You totally discount crime stats, the fact that rape is legally defined quite differently across different countries and insist we look at it as a whole.
> 
> Where is this rape epidemic when violent crime rates remain unchanged in Sweden?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> merry go round....
> 
> I have presented actual data, you didn't like it.
> It showed us what I've told you early in the conversation: that stats can, and definitely being tailored. But you keep on asking for the same thing over and over because it's the only data that suits you - but again TAILORED.
> 
> Just look at the German law, in those cases ethnicities are not mentioned.
> 
> However being reasonable, it's easy to find common basic denominator in all European laws to look at the picture wholly...but you keep repeating "Sweden changed the laws..." again and again.
> That exactly why we HAVE to look at Europe at whole.
Click to expand...


I disagree. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you but I don't see how you can.  I have not actually repeated "Sweden changed the laws" at all, but it was in the OP.  You can't look at European laws as a whole because they aren't necessarily comparable.  If Sweden has the broadest interpretation of what constitutes rape or sexual assault - for example, brushing suggestively past someone, could be considered sexual assault, and if Sweden counts every instance by the same perpetrator as a separate instance then you are going have very different statistics then you will in a country where that is not considered sexual assault, and multiple instances perpetrated by the same person on the same victim is only counted once.  Sweden will have a much higher incidence of rape, but it might only be because it tallies it and classifies it differently.   The other aspect of rape laws is how comfortable and willing are women to report this?  Egypt has a low incidence of rape, but does anyone really believe it's that rare?

Sweden has always had the most sweeping laws regarding sexual assault and harrassment, of any European country and Germany some of the worst.

Germany, just recently, passed a new law, giving a stricter interpretation of what sexual assault is:  Germany rape law: 'No means No' law passed - BBC News
The article starts out by stating: Critics believe Germany *has long lagged behind other developed nations when it comes to its rape laws*.

_Under the previous law, defined in Section 177 of the criminal code (in German), *victims should have defended themselves for an act to constitute rape*. Simply saying "No" was not sufficient to find the defendant guilty, and there was no attempt to define what constituted consent.

The inadequacy of the law meant *many perpetrators got away with rape*, according to a 2014 study of 107 cases by the German association of women's counselling centres and rape crisis centres (BFF).


The authors said that in every case, sexual assaults had been committed against the victim's unambiguous will, which had been communicated verbally to the perpetrator. However, they said, either charges were not filed or there was no court conviction.

The study went on to note that the law placed too much focus on whether the victim resisted and did not reflect real-life scenarios in which people were raped.
_
*Only one in 10 rapes is reported in Germany currently, according to Germany's n-tv news website. And of those, the conviction rate is only 10%.*​
Compare that to Sweden, where for one - women are comfortable being able to report it, there is no requirement that the woman has to resist for it to be considered rape, and "no means no".

Sweden and Germany represent two ends of the European spectrum, probably have similar rates of rape if the laws were the same but - Sweden comes off looking like the "rape capital" of Europe and Germany probably looks pretty damn good for women.  How can you make meaningful comparisons?



> C'mon those rules are not from Mars and Saturn, they were formulated on one single continent by people of common history and they all deal with 1 common thing- rape and sexual assaults.



Except ... while they deal with one common thing, as you say - they deal with it completely differently.  They also are not exactly a common culture - Germany, Italy, France, Spain, Sweden - very different.



> But even so, if we look and take in account each countries' specifics morals as transformed into those laws (which we should because that's the beauty of being a free independent state) we will see the DISRESPECT and actual RAPE as SEEN BY THEM..why should migrants be held to different standards if they come to live in peace (rather than dictate their own rules)?



Migrants SHOULDN'T be held to a different standard.  They should be held to what ever the standards and laws are of the country they migrated to.  No one is saying they should be held to different standards.



> It's not for you or the migrant rapists to claim what's rape and what's not- it's the right of the people and that's how you should look at it to be objective.



Of course it's not, and I'm not claiming what is and is not rape - that's up to the laws of the individual countries and they differ.



> In conclusion- if x numbers of European countries claim together to "be raped" it's not your filthy business digging their laws- it's THEIR laws, and the foreigners must change their ways immediately.



And this has what to do with what?  I'm not "digging their laws" - I'm pointing out that because laws are different you can't make menainful comparisons across countries.  I am not saying foreigners should not comply with their host countries laws - of course they should.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, to sum it up, we have this.
> 
> A lot of claims about sexual harassment and  rape by migrants.
> 
> If we break it down most of it seems to fall into harassment.  Countries are offering  classes on their culture and how women are to be treated.  This certainly makes sense given vast cultural differences among immigrants. What surprises me is it wasn't done  before. The US has long do everything that sort of thing going as part of the aculturation process.
> 
> We also have a ton of news articles which seem to range from fairly factual to over the top fear mongering.
> 
> We have evidence that in a 2014 music festival police might have covered up reports of assault.  So in 2015, police took it more seriously, and out of 170000 participants, there were maybe 20 complaints filed.
> 
> When you have so much contradictory and emotion driven info, it's more helpful to look at each country individually since laws differ, and to look at actual criminal statics for trends.  Thus, far, in Sweden, over the last decade they have remained largely the same for violent crime and no one has offered any actual data to the contrary.
> 
> Looking at data and asking these questions rather the simply jumping on the bandwagon, is not supporting rape or so-called rape jihad, it's questioning conclusions that don't appear to be supported by data but by fear and anti-immigrant hysteria.  Like the no go zone claims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is merely damage control, in conclusion, the tactics are clear:
> muddy the waters, then mix the problem, turning a blind eye off the most obvious and clearly presented facts- to make it seem "casual". And A LOT of baiting, word play and or cherry picking to confuse.
> 
> Then suggesting that the cause is anything (class, racism, lack of competence by govt)* but the rapists themselves.
> *
> It's not "cultural difference" but exactly the lack of culture and any traits of basic human empathy. Men rape not because of culture but because they're weak cowards. And those who grow their boys this way must have an agenda or just don't think of women in terms of being human.
> 
> Thanks to others who still defend these moral boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speaking of moral boundaries...you have yet to present actual data or crime stats showing there is a rape epidemic or rape jihad. I presented clear and obvious facts, which you choose to ignore.
> 
> Men rape for many reasons, it's far from being as simplistic as you try to present.  Men rape as a weapon of war. We see it in the Syrian civil war and in the decades old conflict in the Congo. Men rape because their culture places little value on women, or women of certain castes, classes, etc.  Men rape for power, because they can. The causes are many but only one person is RESPONSIBLE, and it is not excusable.  But neither is the concerted attempt to demonize a group of people when the evidence doesn't support it.
> 
> You totally discount crime stats, the fact that rape is legally defined quite differently across different countries and insist we look at it as a whole.
> 
> Where is this rape epidemic when violent crime rates remain unchanged in Sweden?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All the "reasons" you've mentioned to make it look more "cultural" are exactly the examples of - WEAKNESS (lack of self control) and COWARDICE (low self-esteem).
> 
> Those are not men, those are low lifes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course they are low lives.  You really don't think culture has anything to do with how women are treated?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course it has, but in my world "culture" is too high a word for this.
> There're patterns in society, those patterns engraved by example figures (hero) for centuries of accepted fashionable activity.
> 
> It's like someone can call sacrificing children to Moloch a "culture"..to me it's the lack of it, the lack of basic humanity- savagery.
> 
> Rape is only slightly different, they still kill a person, even though maybe not totally physically.
Click to expand...


I can agree with that.


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Utterly disgusting that women in particular would go out of their way to pretend the rape of European women, children, and refugee women and children is a non event.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .....or at least a creature that CLAIMS to be a woman.
> 
> Considering the agenda involved and the track record of incredible deceit, I don't know if we really have any solid reasons to believe the claim.
> 
> What we see happening in Europe where rape is part of the Islamization process, so, too, do Islamists work the internet. They play something akin to a good cop/bad cop routine where the rapists do the dirty work and the online propagandists provide the rhetorical.
> 
> If they can establish that it is the right, proper duty of Western leftists to defend the Jihad, half their work is done.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So we get that you have a rabid and psychotic hatred of Muslims and heroize  a man who went across the country electrocuting live animals on stage...
> 
> Is this why you chose to use a discredited poll from a hate site instead of Pew, in order to slander American Muslims?
> 
> You keep ducking, dodging and deflecting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You need help -- serious help.
> 
> You are delusional.
Click to expand...


Still deflecting - you just can't bring yourself to answer a direct question can you?


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> ‘  NO’ German girls given TEMPORARY TATTOOS to help prevent swimming pool sex attacks
> 
> ....
> Since the beginning of 2016 dozens of swimming pool sex attacks have been reported to German police.
> 
> Swimming centre Maximare in Hamm has had to hire security staff after at least six assault since the turn of the year.
> 
> Last month police in *Lower Saxony warned there is a "new phenomenon" of "sporadic group sexual assaults" in pools across the state and have accused "non German" men of the attacks. *
> 
> Germany recently introduced a new 'No Means No' law amid increasing levels of sexual assaults by migrants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> ‘NO’ German girls given TEMPORARY TATTOOS to help prevent swimming pool sex attacks
> 
> ....
> Since the beginning of 2016 dozens of swimming pool sex attacks have been reported to German police.
> 
> Swimming centre Maximare in Hamm has had to hire security staff after at least six assault since the turn of the year.
> 
> Last month police in *Lower Saxony warned there is a "new phenomenon" of "sporadic group sexual assaults" in pools across the state and have accused "non German" men of the attacks. *
> 
> Germany recently introduced a new 'No Means No' law amid increasing levels of sexual assaults by migrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful, there, Tilly.
> 
> A senior moderator here thinks Muslim men raping European women and children is funny.
> 
> She keeps indicting such.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So thin skinned... you just think everyone should take your every highly educated "opinion" as fact eh?[/QUOTE I just point out what you are up to, filth.
> 
> It seems to be working, too, if your  little spate of doubling down on your use of the funny button to show your solidarity with rape jihad is any indication.
> 
> I am not the only one here who sees right through you, and it shows.  You are in a veritable froth of desperation and others find you just as pathetic and evil as do I.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, tell us then, Mr. Embodiment of All that is Liberal, he who is the judge of all us poor inferior unwashed illiberal masses...
> 
> *Why did you choose to use a discredited poll, from a disreputable site, about the views of American Muslims when you could have used the polling source you typically used, that is quite reputable - PEW ?  Could it be that the Pew poll completely contradicted the claims you were making about American Muslims?  You know...when you deliberately CHOOSE to pick a poll from a hate site rather than a reputable site, the taint sticks to you*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You may be poor, inferior and unwashed, but I would NEVER call you liberal.
> 
> Liberals do not think raping children is as funny as you do, especially when it is motivated by ethnic and cultural hatred.
Click to expand...


And again, you dodge and deflect.  Can you not answer a simple question?


----------



## StLucieBengal

Tommy Tainant said:


> As we can see from this thread it is quite easy for the right to inflame hatred. Their targets are not too bright and they tend to only believe sources that confirm their low information prejudices.
> 
> Look at the cheerleaders on here for Islamophobia. One is a big supporter of Israel and would like to see all muslim children slaughtered. One is a rabid nazi who would like to see ALL people of colour chemically castrated.
> 
> You arent going to see a reasoned debate from this type of individual.
> 
> Anybody who has a different view is denounced as a rape apologist or a muslim savage or a woman hater.
> 
> Its a classic Hilterian tactic for stifling debate. If you can scream loud enough you can win the debate.
> 
> Are there issues with migrants in Europe ? Of course there are.
> 
> Is the next apocalypse about to happen ? Is it fuck.
> 
> *Maybe a bit more time spent understanding why these people are in Europe* might enlighten the ignorant a little bit.



Fighting aged men who ran away from the fight because they are scared.    I guess they feel it's easier to rape European women and children than stand up like a man and fight for their lands.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ridgerunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Freja is a 50 year old bloke with a cellar full of nazi memorabilia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like your collection of naked Neville Chamberlain pics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *I just love these threads started by rape apologists.
> They could give a damn less about the victims.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh please, you know damn well you guys don't give a damn about rape, or other abusive crimes against women and girls such as child marriages UNLESS Muslims are involved
Click to expand...


Feel free to test than theory and post a thread about a story of a pedo rapist and see what happens .


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tattoos to counter the 'growing issue of sex attacks' that isn't really happening. Lol.
> 
> *'NO’ German girls given TEMPORARY TATTOOS to help prevent swimming pool sex attacks*
> *YOUNG girls are being given temporary tattoos in swimming pools spelling out word “NO” after a spate of sex attacks at public baths. *
> By ZOIE O'BRIEN
> PUBLISHED: 11:31, Mon, Aug 22, 2016 | UPDATED: 11:46, Mon, Aug 22, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GETTY/ NC
> 
> Temporary tattoos are being handed to young German girls over sex assaults
> The small press-on designs also sport angel-like wings and are part of a new prevention campaign launched in the Bodensee district in the state of Baden-Wurttemberg.
> 
> Veronika Wascher-Goggerle, the Women's and Family representative of the district, is behind the launch and said the press-on tattoos would also help raise awareness over the growing issue of sex attacks in swimming pools.
> 
> The Bodenseekreis is famous for its bathing and boasts numerous indoor and outdoor swimming pools.
> 
> Alleged sex attacks by migrants have caused heated debate in the area over the last few months and some pools are hiring extra security - or even banning asylum seekers altogether. ....
> 
> ‘NO’ German girls given TEMPORARY TATTOOS to help prevent swimming pool sex attacks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alleged.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Glad to see you think so little of women and children that you constantly make any excuses for these sexual predators.
> 
> I bet you were here posting the salon articles by the Pedo's trying to normalize that behavior.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We have a justice system for a reason, we are a people of laws, not mob justice. A person is innocent until proven guilty.  Is this such a problem for you that you now have to resort to accusing people of supporting pedos?
Click to expand...


the same excuses the salon articles used to defend pedos is the same ones being used to defend the Muslims


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> Actually my summation of you has nothing to do with your claim that you hate rape.  We all do.  Its that that excuse is nothing more then a thin veneer.  You gave you self away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You "hate" rape?
> 
> Is it that spreading Islam is so important to you that you're willing to excuse a little rape for the glory of Allah?
> 
> I mean, your flaccid attempt to excuse rape Jihad shows hatred, but not hatred of rape.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your concern a out the abuse of women ends once Muslims are out of the picture .
Click to expand...


Feel free to show one post where uncensored has promoted abuse towards women when a Muslim wasn't involved.    

Or was that just another bs dodge ....


----------



## StLucieBengal

guno said:


> Imperius said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh, so we link to an image that says  "Only Jesus can build a bridge to heaven using only two pieces of wood."
> 
> But forget the other side of that deal. Not everyone gets into heaven, not everyone is allowed into heaven, not even on that bridge Jesus built with two pieces of wood. Hence the words Jesus spoke in Matthew 7:23.
> 
> Meaning, that just like immigration laws which set the standard for those who want to get into our country, there are also standards set by God for those who wish to enter into the kingdom of heaven.
> 
> 
> 
> how  come you rightwing christer always leave this out of your jebus talks
> 
> Matthew 25:35-46
> 
> 
> 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.' "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?
> 
> 3 John 1:5
> 
> Beloved, you are acting faithfully in whatever you accomplish for the brethren, and especially when they are strangers;
> 
> 
> the Bible also reminds us that we are _all_ strangers, temporary sojourners. God says, “. . . [F]or the land is mine, and you are but strangers, resident with Me” (Leviticus 25:23). Muhammad makes the same point. When we forget that in a sense we too are strangers, we push God out of our world. An 18th century Hassidic teaching put it this way: “If we act as _gerim_ [strangers, sojourners] in the world . . . then God will be a permanent resident among us . . . But if we act as permanent residents . . . then God will at best be a _ger_ [stranger, sojourner] among us.”*
Click to expand...



Ah the old bible verse defense.....     Liberal trick #205 

Sorry but even Jesus wouldn't allow needy people to rape away in the name of Allah.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> So, to sum it up, we have this.
> 
> A lot of claims about sexual harassment and  rape by migrants.
> 
> If we break it down most of it seems to fall into harassment.  Countries are offering  classes on their culture and how women are to be treated.  This certainly makes sense given vast cultural differences among immigrants. What surprises me is it wasn't done  before. The US has long do everything that sort of thing going as part of the aculturation process.
> 
> We also have a ton of news articles which seem to range from fairly factual to over the top fear mongering.
> 
> We have evidence that in a 2014 music festival police might have covered up reports of assault.  So in 2015, police took it more seriously, and out of 170000 participants, there were maybe 20 complaints filed.
> 
> When you have so much contradictory and emotion driven info, it's more helpful to look at each country individually since laws differ, and to look at actual criminal statics for trends.  Thus, far, in Sweden, over the last decade they have remained largely the same for violent crime and no one has offered any actual data to the contrary.
> 
> Looking at data and asking these questions rather the simply jumping on the bandwagon, is not supporting rape or so-called rape jihad, it's questioning conclusions that don't appear to be supported by data but by fear and anti-immigrant hysteria.  Like the no go zone claims.




If you need a class to know you can't rape women and children then you shouldn't be going anywhere.    

There is zero reason to take any of these animals into any western country.    

They shouldn't even leave their continent.    There are plenty of Asian countries they can go.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same abuses were also reported in Germany:
> 
> *Rape and child abuse 'are rife in German refugee camps': Unsegregated conditions blamed as women are 'seen as fair game' in overcrowded migrant centres*
> 
> *Abuses said to be taking place among 5,000 migrants at camp in Giessen*
> *Fear the number of unreported rapes and sexual assaults is significant*
> *It may be taking place at overcrowded refugee centres across the country*
> By ALLAN HALL IN BERLIN FOR MAILONLINE
> 
> PUBLISHED: 19:23, 24 September 2015 | UPDATED: 05:37, 25 September 2015
> 
> A culture of rape and sexual abuse is being allowed to take hold in asylum centres across Germany as Europe struggles to cope with the migrant crisis, it has been alleged,
> 
> Women’s rights groups and politicians have highlighted assaults against women and children in at least one camp.
> 
> And they suggest such incidents may be widespread, with many going unreported to the police.
> 
> Campaigners also claimed some men saw unaccompanied women as ‘fair game’, and also blamed conditions in which occupants were unsegregated by gender or nationality....
> 
> ...
> A letter addressed to the Minister of Integration and Social Affairs in the state of Hesse, where the centre is based, *from four women’s organisations described a ‘culture of rape and violence’.*
> 
> The letter, written on August 18, stated: ‘It is a fact that women and children are unprotected. This situation is opportune to those men who already regard women as their inferior and treat unaccompanied women as “fair game”. *As a consequence, there are reports of numerous rapes, sexual assaults and increasingly of forced prostitution. These are not isolated incidents.’*
> 
> 
> 
> There are fears the number of unreported cases of rape and sexual assault at the Geissen camp
> 
> 
> Women were often too afraid to walk around the camp even during the day, volunteers claimed, while some victims are too terrified to report sexual assaults by the men.
> 
> A police spokesman said there were ‘probably’ many unreported sexual abuses. Giessen City Councillor Astrid Eibelshaeuser said: ‘We know there is rape happening.’
> 
> Johannes-Wilhelm Roerig, the federal commissioner for child sexual abuse issues, said: ‘I am most concerned that refugee children in camps, gymnasiums, or former barracks are not sufficiently protected from sexual assault.’...
> 
> 
> Rape and child abuse are 'rife in German asylum centres'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This particular article illustrates exactly what is happening.  The conditions in these refugee centers are horrible and overcrowded and violence against women and children is endemic.  The article I posted also went into this issue, and noted it is endemic in all refugee centers regardless of religion.  There was a recent expose on an Australian migrant detention center on an island where abuse, especially against children was uncovered.  Women and girls in some of these facilities also become prey to human human traffickers or Arab men looking for cheap sex sanctified by a temporary marriage.
> 
> Few seem to really care what goes on in these places.
> 
> No one is saying it's all imaginary, but there is no data to support a rape epidemic or rape jihad.
Click to expand...


So it's happening in migrant centre's but it's not a big deal?   Or it's not Muslims .....  But it's happening in migrant centre's .... And European women are still being raped by Muslims ....


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Utterly disgusting that women in particular would go out of their way to pretend the rape of European women, children, and refugee women and children is a non event.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .....or at least a creature that CLAIMS to be a woman.
> 
> Considering the agenda involved and the track record of incredible deceit, I don't know if we really have any solid reasons to believe the claim.
> 
> What we see happening in Europe where rape is part of the Islamization process, so, too, do Islamists work the internet. They play something akin to a good cop/bad cop routine where the rapists do the dirty work and the online propagandists provide the rhetorical.
> 
> If they can establish that it is the right, proper duty of Western leftists to defend the Jihad, half their work is done.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So we get that you have a rabid and psychotic hatred of Muslims and heroize  a man who went across the country electrocuting live animals on stage...
> 
> Is this why you chose to use a discredited poll from a hate site instead of Pew, in order to slander American Muslims?
> 
> You keep ducking, dodging and deflecting.
Click to expand...



This thread is about Swedish rapes by migrants.   Why are you bringing up American Muslims?    

If you want to discuss them then please make a thread and we can discuss them.


----------



## Tilly

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Utterly disgusting that women in particular would go out of their way to pretend the rape of European women, children, and refugee women and children is a non event.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .....or at least a creature that CLAIMS to be a woman.
> 
> Considering the agenda involved and the track record of incredible deceit, I don't know if we really have any solid reasons to believe the claim.
> 
> What we see happening in Europe where rape is part of the Islamization process, so, too, do Islamists work the internet. They play something akin to a good cop/bad cop routine where the rapists do the dirty work and the online propagandists provide the rhetorical.
> 
> If they can establish that it is the right, proper duty of Western leftists to defend the Jihad, half their work is done.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So we get that you have a rabid and psychotic hatred of Muslims and heroize  a man who went across the country electrocuting live animals on stage...
> 
> Is this why you chose to use a discredited poll from a hate site instead of Pew, in order to slander American Muslims?
> 
> You keep ducking, dodging and deflecting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This thread is about Swedish rapes by migrants.   Why are you bringing up American Muslims?
> 
> If you want to discuss them then please make a thread and we can discuss them.
Click to expand...

This thread is full of Coyote Ugly's ad hominems, off topic crap about polls, electrocuting dogs, lies about posters (as usual), and of course excuses for refugee rapists and refugee paedophiles. She's hysterical, but not in the humorous way


----------



## Tilly

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same abuses were also reported in Germany:
> 
> *Rape and child abuse 'are rife in German refugee camps': Unsegregated conditions blamed as women are 'seen as fair game' in overcrowded migrant centres*
> 
> *Abuses said to be taking place among 5,000 migrants at camp in Giessen*
> *Fear the number of unreported rapes and sexual assaults is significant*
> *It may be taking place at overcrowded refugee centres across the country*
> By ALLAN HALL IN BERLIN FOR MAILONLINE
> 
> PUBLISHED: 19:23, 24 September 2015 | UPDATED: 05:37, 25 September 2015
> 
> A culture of rape and sexual abuse is being allowed to take hold in asylum centres across Germany as Europe struggles to cope with the migrant crisis, it has been alleged,
> 
> Women’s rights groups and politicians have highlighted assaults against women and children in at least one camp.
> 
> And they suggest such incidents may be widespread, with many going unreported to the police.
> 
> Campaigners also claimed some men saw unaccompanied women as ‘fair game’, and also blamed conditions in which occupants were unsegregated by gender or nationality....
> 
> ...
> A letter addressed to the Minister of Integration and Social Affairs in the state of Hesse, where the centre is based, *from four women’s organisations described a ‘culture of rape and violence’.*
> 
> The letter, written on August 18, stated: ‘It is a fact that women and children are unprotected. This situation is opportune to those men who already regard women as their inferior and treat unaccompanied women as “fair game”. *As a consequence, there are reports of numerous rapes, sexual assaults and increasingly of forced prostitution. These are not isolated incidents.’*
> 
> 
> 
> There are fears the number of unreported cases of rape and sexual assault at the Geissen camp
> 
> 
> Women were often too afraid to walk around the camp even during the day, volunteers claimed, while some victims are too terrified to report sexual assaults by the men.
> 
> A police spokesman said there were ‘probably’ many unreported sexual abuses. Giessen City Councillor Astrid Eibelshaeuser said: ‘We know there is rape happening.’
> 
> Johannes-Wilhelm Roerig, the federal commissioner for child sexual abuse issues, said: ‘I am most concerned that refugee children in camps, gymnasiums, or former barracks are not sufficiently protected from sexual assault.’...
> 
> 
> Rape and child abuse are 'rife in German asylum centres'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This particular article illustrates exactly what is happening.  The conditions in these refugee centers are horrible and overcrowded and violence against women and children is endemic.  The article I posted also went into this issue, and noted it is endemic in all refugee centers regardless of religion.  There was a recent expose on an Australian migrant detention center on an island where abuse, especially against children was uncovered.  Women and girls in some of these facilities also become prey to human human traffickers or Arab men looking for cheap sex sanctified by a temporary marriage.
> 
> Few seem to really care what goes on in these places.
> 
> No one is saying it's all imaginary, but there is no data to support a rape epidemic or rape jihad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So it's happening in migrant centre's but it's not a big deal?   Or it's not Muslims .....  But it's happening in migrant centre's .... And European women are still being raped by Muslims ....
Click to expand...

They are raping women and children in the migrant centres, and they are raping women and children outside the migrant centres. The people in Europe know what is happening and we know about the cover ups - it is considered that accurate open reporting 'plays into the hands of the right wing' so that's a good enough excuse for the authorities to obfuscate and lie. The rape jihad combined with the terrorism is resulting in more and more people becoming furious about immigration. Europes women and children have been thrown under the bus by politicians, and the refugee women and children have been too. That women make excuses for this is utterly sickening.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Tilly said:


> This thread is full of Coyote Ugly's ad hominems, off topic crap about polls, electrocuting dogs, lies about posters (as usual), and of course excuses for refugee rapists and refugee paedophiles. She's hysterical, but not in the humorous way





And she is a senior moderator who is the official representative of a website that asks for donations to support such behavior, no less.


----------



## Tilly

Dogmaphobe said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> This thread is full of Coyote Ugly's ad hominems, off topic crap about polls, electrocuting dogs, lies about posters (as usual), and of course excuses for refugee rapists and refugee paedophiles. She's hysterical, but not in the humorous way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And she is a senior moderator who is the official representative of a website that asks for donations to support such behavior, no less.
Click to expand...

Quite. It would be like PAYING to be stalked, lied about and harassed by a pernicious troll who abuses its position and who one can't even put on ignore. Lol.


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> Actually my summation of you has nothing to do with your claim that you hate rape.  We all do.  Its that that excuse is nothing more then a thin veneer.  You gave you self away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You "hate" rape?
> 
> Is it that spreading Islam is so important to you that you're willing to excuse a little rape for the glory of Allah?
> 
> I mean, your flaccid attempt to excuse rape Jihad shows hatred, but not hatred of rape.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your concern a out the abuse of women ends once Muslims are out of the picture .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to show one post where uncensored has promoted abuse towards women when a Muslim wasn't involved.
> 
> Or was that just another bs dodge ....
Click to expand...



She me one post where I have supported, promoted or made excuses for rape.  Show me one post where I have supported terrorists killing Jews.  Show me one post where I have supported the barbaric excesses of certain Muslims - their treatment of women, ISIS, any of that.

Don't like it when you're "misrepresented"?  *Well why do you keep doing it?*


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, to sum it up, we have this.
> 
> A lot of claims about sexual harassment and  rape by migrants.
> 
> If we break it down most of it seems to fall into harassment.  Countries are offering  classes on their culture and how women are to be treated.  This certainly makes sense given vast cultural differences among immigrants. What surprises me is it wasn't done  before. The US has long do everything that sort of thing going as part of the aculturation process.
> 
> We also have a ton of news articles which seem to range from fairly factual to over the top fear mongering.
> 
> We have evidence that in a 2014 music festival police might have covered up reports of assault.  So in 2015, police took it more seriously, and out of 170000 participants, there were maybe 20 complaints filed.
> 
> When you have so much contradictory and emotion driven info, it's more helpful to look at each country individually since laws differ, and to look at actual criminal statics for trends.  Thus, far, in Sweden, over the last decade they have remained largely the same for violent crime and no one has offered any actual data to the contrary.
> 
> Looking at data and asking these questions rather the simply jumping on the bandwagon, is not supporting rape or so-called rape jihad, it's questioning conclusions that don't appear to be supported by data but by fear and anti-immigrant hysteria.  Like the no go zone claims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you need a class to know you can't rape women and children then you shouldn't be going anywhere.
> 
> There is zero reason to take any of these animals into any western country.
> 
> They shouldn't even leave their continent.    There are plenty of Asian countries they can go.
Click to expand...



What is considered rape varies from country to country - witness the extreme difference between Germany and Sweden's laws.  Anyone new to a country needs to learn the laws and culture of that new country.  You can't expect it to be universal.  In addition, you're assuming that rape is perfectly ok in all those countries and cultures those people are coming from.  That isn't necessarily so.


----------



## Coyote

Tilly said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> This thread is full of Coyote Ugly's ad hominems, off topic crap about polls, electrocuting dogs, lies about posters (as usual), and of course excuses for refugee rapists and refugee paedophiles. She's hysterical, but not in the humorous way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And she is a senior moderator who is the official representative of a website that asks for donations to support such behavior, no less.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quite. It would be like paying *to be stalked, lied about and harassed *by a pernicious troll one can't even put on ignore. Lol.
Click to expand...


Which, I might add - you do quite well.


----------



## Coyote

Tilly said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Utterly disgusting that women in particular would go out of their way to pretend the rape of European women, children, and refugee women and children is a non event.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .....or at least a creature that CLAIMS to be a woman.
> 
> Considering the agenda involved and the track record of incredible deceit, I don't know if we really have any solid reasons to believe the claim.
> 
> What we see happening in Europe where rape is part of the Islamization process, so, too, do Islamists work the internet. They play something akin to a good cop/bad cop routine where the rapists do the dirty work and the online propagandists provide the rhetorical.
> 
> If they can establish that it is the right, proper duty of Western leftists to defend the Jihad, half their work is done.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So we get that you have a rabid and psychotic hatred of Muslims and heroize  a man who went across the country electrocuting live animals on stage...
> 
> Is this why you chose to use a discredited poll from a hate site instead of Pew, in order to slander American Muslims?
> 
> You keep ducking, dodging and deflecting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This thread is about Swedish rapes by migrants.   Why are you bringing up American Muslims?
> 
> If you want to discuss them then please make a thread and we can discuss them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This thread is full of Coyote Ugly's ad hominems, off topic crap about polls, electrocuting dogs, lies about posters (as usual), and of course excuses for refugee rapists and refugee paedophiles. She's hysterical, but not in the humorous way
Click to expand...


Have you taken the time to review your boyfriends posts?  I ignore him, but he won't leave me alone with his off topic crap, lies about me, and ad hominems.  What it seems like, Tilly, is you have quite a double standard.  I try very hard to engage people in discussion, politely - even you and Dogma, but get nothing but insults and lies in return, so I try to ignore you, but you can't leave me alone can you?  Eventually, enough is enough.  Leave me alone, I'll be happy to leave you alone.  Spread lies and adhoms - fine, I'm happy to participate in that as well.  The ball is in your court you passive aggressive twat.


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Utterly disgusting that women in particular would go out of their way to pretend the rape of European women, children, and refugee women and children is a non event.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .....or at least a creature that CLAIMS to be a woman.
> 
> Considering the agenda involved and the track record of incredible deceit, I don't know if we really have any solid reasons to believe the claim.
> 
> What we see happening in Europe where rape is part of the Islamization process, so, too, do Islamists work the internet. They play something akin to a good cop/bad cop routine where the rapists do the dirty work and the online propagandists provide the rhetorical.
> 
> If they can establish that it is the right, proper duty of Western leftists to defend the Jihad, half their work is done.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So we get that you have a rabid and psychotic hatred of Muslims and heroize  a man who went across the country electrocuting live animals on stage...
> 
> Is this why you chose to use a discredited poll from a hate site instead of Pew, in order to slander American Muslims?
> 
> You keep ducking, dodging and deflecting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This thread is about Swedish rapes by migrants.   Why are you bringing up American Muslims?
> 
> If you want to discuss them then please make a thread and we can discuss them.
Click to expand...


This thread is in Zone 3.

If Dogma is going to dodge and duck, one has to wonder why.


----------



## Coyote

Tilly said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same abuses were also reported in Germany:
> 
> *Rape and child abuse 'are rife in German refugee camps': Unsegregated conditions blamed as women are 'seen as fair game' in overcrowded migrant centres*
> 
> *Abuses said to be taking place among 5,000 migrants at camp in Giessen*
> *Fear the number of unreported rapes and sexual assaults is significant*
> *It may be taking place at overcrowded refugee centres across the country*
> By ALLAN HALL IN BERLIN FOR MAILONLINE
> 
> PUBLISHED: 19:23, 24 September 2015 | UPDATED: 05:37, 25 September 2015
> 
> A culture of rape and sexual abuse is being allowed to take hold in asylum centres across Germany as Europe struggles to cope with the migrant crisis, it has been alleged,
> 
> Women’s rights groups and politicians have highlighted assaults against women and children in at least one camp.
> 
> And they suggest such incidents may be widespread, with many going unreported to the police.
> 
> Campaigners also claimed some men saw unaccompanied women as ‘fair game’, and also blamed conditions in which occupants were unsegregated by gender or nationality....
> 
> ...
> A letter addressed to the Minister of Integration and Social Affairs in the state of Hesse, where the centre is based, *from four women’s organisations described a ‘culture of rape and violence’.*
> 
> The letter, written on August 18, stated: ‘It is a fact that women and children are unprotected. This situation is opportune to those men who already regard women as their inferior and treat unaccompanied women as “fair game”. *As a consequence, there are reports of numerous rapes, sexual assaults and increasingly of forced prostitution. These are not isolated incidents.’*
> 
> 
> 
> There are fears the number of unreported cases of rape and sexual assault at the Geissen camp
> 
> 
> Women were often too afraid to walk around the camp even during the day, volunteers claimed, while some victims are too terrified to report sexual assaults by the men.
> 
> A police spokesman said there were ‘probably’ many unreported sexual abuses. Giessen City Councillor Astrid Eibelshaeuser said: ‘We know there is rape happening.’
> 
> Johannes-Wilhelm Roerig, the federal commissioner for child sexual abuse issues, said: ‘I am most concerned that refugee children in camps, gymnasiums, or former barracks are not sufficiently protected from sexual assault.’...
> 
> 
> Rape and child abuse are 'rife in German asylum centres'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This particular article illustrates exactly what is happening.  The conditions in these refugee centers are horrible and overcrowded and violence against women and children is endemic.  The article I posted also went into this issue, and noted it is endemic in all refugee centers regardless of religion.  There was a recent expose on an Australian migrant detention center on an island where abuse, especially against children was uncovered.  Women and girls in some of these facilities also become prey to human human traffickers or Arab men looking for cheap sex sanctified by a temporary marriage.
> 
> Few seem to really care what goes on in these places.
> 
> No one is saying it's all imaginary, but there is no data to support a rape epidemic or rape jihad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So it's happening in migrant centre's but it's not a big deal?   Or it's not Muslims .....  But it's happening in migrant centre's .... And European women are still being raped by Muslims ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *They are raping women and children in the migrant centres,* and they are raping women and children outside the migrant centres. The people in Europe know what is happening and we know about the cover ups - it is considered that accurate open reporting 'plays into the hands of the right wing' so that's a good enough excuse for the authorities to obfuscate and lie. The rape jihad combined with the terrorism is resulting in more and more people becoming furious about immigration. Europes women and children have been thrown under the bus by politicians, and the refugee women and children have been too. That women make excuses for this is utterly sickening.
Click to expand...


The first was actually addressed in one of the articles I posted and is a common problem in migrant centres regardless of country of origin or religion - it's a problem when you have men, women, children all crowded together, to few people to oversee and insufficient resources.  When you google "rape epidemic" that is not what is being talked about.  What is being talked  about is brown and black people raping white european women.  They don't care about the migrants, or something would be done, it would be featured in as many news articles as the supposed "rape jihad" is.  But it isn't.  

Now, you sickening twat - *how about a link where I have made excuses for it*?  You whine about others misrepresenting you, but here you are doing the same thing.  

While you're at it - how is it you can claim this massive "rape jihad" in Sweden but no rise in Sweden's crime rates over the last decade?  SURELY, there would be something indicating this trend?


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same abuses were also reported in Germany:
> 
> *Rape and child abuse 'are rife in German refugee camps': Unsegregated conditions blamed as women are 'seen as fair game' in overcrowded migrant centres*
> 
> *Abuses said to be taking place among 5,000 migrants at camp in Giessen*
> *Fear the number of unreported rapes and sexual assaults is significant*
> *It may be taking place at overcrowded refugee centres across the country*
> By ALLAN HALL IN BERLIN FOR MAILONLINE
> 
> PUBLISHED: 19:23, 24 September 2015 | UPDATED: 05:37, 25 September 2015
> 
> A culture of rape and sexual abuse is being allowed to take hold in asylum centres across Germany as Europe struggles to cope with the migrant crisis, it has been alleged,
> 
> Women’s rights groups and politicians have highlighted assaults against women and children in at least one camp.
> 
> And they suggest such incidents may be widespread, with many going unreported to the police.
> 
> Campaigners also claimed some men saw unaccompanied women as ‘fair game’, and also blamed conditions in which occupants were unsegregated by gender or nationality....
> 
> ...
> A letter addressed to the Minister of Integration and Social Affairs in the state of Hesse, where the centre is based, *from four women’s organisations described a ‘culture of rape and violence’.*
> 
> The letter, written on August 18, stated: ‘It is a fact that women and children are unprotected. This situation is opportune to those men who already regard women as their inferior and treat unaccompanied women as “fair game”. *As a consequence, there are reports of numerous rapes, sexual assaults and increasingly of forced prostitution. These are not isolated incidents.’*
> 
> 
> 
> There are fears the number of unreported cases of rape and sexual assault at the Geissen camp
> 
> 
> Women were often too afraid to walk around the camp even during the day, volunteers claimed, while some victims are too terrified to report sexual assaults by the men.
> 
> A police spokesman said there were ‘probably’ many unreported sexual abuses. Giessen City Councillor Astrid Eibelshaeuser said: ‘We know there is rape happening.’
> 
> Johannes-Wilhelm Roerig, the federal commissioner for child sexual abuse issues, said: ‘I am most concerned that refugee children in camps, gymnasiums, or former barracks are not sufficiently protected from sexual assault.’...
> 
> 
> Rape and child abuse are 'rife in German asylum centres'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This particular article illustrates exactly what is happening.  The conditions in these refugee centers are horrible and overcrowded and violence against women and children is endemic.  The article I posted also went into this issue, and noted it is endemic in all refugee centers regardless of religion.  There was a recent expose on an Australian migrant detention center on an island where abuse, especially against children was uncovered.  Women and girls in some of these facilities also become prey to human human traffickers or Arab men looking for cheap sex sanctified by a temporary marriage.
> 
> Few seem to really care what goes on in these places.
> 
> No one is saying it's all imaginary, but there is no data to support a rape epidemic or rape jihad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So it's happening in migrant centre's but it's not a big deal?   Or it's not Muslims .....  But it's happening in migrant centre's .... And European women are still being raped by Muslims ....
Click to expand...


I'll repeat what I wrote to Tilly.  No one is saying it's not a big deal.  This is the first time however, I've heard you express an opinion on what is going on in migrant centers.  When you google "rape jihad" and "rape epidemic" what is happening in migrant centers is amazingly scarce.  It's all about a supposed rape epidemic on white European women.

If European women are being raped at such high rates in Sweden....why has there been NO corresponding increase in Sweden's crime rate reports over the past decade?  You can argue a cover-up, but a cover-up for an entire nation, for the past decade stretches even the most feverish imagination.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> Actually my summation of you has nothing to do with your claim that you hate rape.  We all do.  Its that that excuse is nothing more then a thin veneer.  You gave you self away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You "hate" rape?
> 
> Is it that spreading Islam is so important to you that you're willing to excuse a little rape for the glory of Allah?
> 
> I mean, your flaccid attempt to excuse rape Jihad shows hatred, but not hatred of rape.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your concern a out the abuse of women ends once Muslims are out of the picture .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to show one post where uncensored has promoted abuse towards women when a Muslim wasn't involved.
> 
> Or was that just another bs dodge ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> She me one post where I have supported, promoted or made excuses for rape.  Show me one post where I have supported terrorists killing Jews.  Show me one post where I have supported the barbaric excesses of certain Muslims - their treatment of women, ISIS, any of that.
> 
> Don't like it when you're "misrepresented"?  *Well why do you keep doing it?*
Click to expand...



You made an entire thread about a media conspiracy over migrant rapes and sexual assaults.    

This whole thread is you making an excuse for the migrants and their thirst for rape.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, to sum it up, we have this.
> 
> A lot of claims about sexual harassment and  rape by migrants.
> 
> If we break it down most of it seems to fall into harassment.  Countries are offering  classes on their culture and how women are to be treated.  This certainly makes sense given vast cultural differences among immigrants. What surprises me is it wasn't done  before. The US has long do everything that sort of thing going as part of the aculturation process.
> 
> We also have a ton of news articles which seem to range from fairly factual to over the top fear mongering.
> 
> We have evidence that in a 2014 music festival police might have covered up reports of assault.  So in 2015, police took it more seriously, and out of 170000 participants, there were maybe 20 complaints filed.
> 
> When you have so much contradictory and emotion driven info, it's more helpful to look at each country individually since laws differ, and to look at actual criminal statics for trends.  Thus, far, in Sweden, over the last decade they have remained largely the same for violent crime and no one has offered any actual data to the contrary.
> 
> Looking at data and asking these questions rather the simply jumping on the bandwagon, is not supporting rape or so-called rape jihad, it's questioning conclusions that don't appear to be supported by data but by fear and anti-immigrant hysteria.  Like the no go zone claims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you need a class to know you can't rape women and children then you shouldn't be going anywhere.
> 
> There is zero reason to take any of these animals into any western country.
> 
> They shouldn't even leave their continent.    There are plenty of Asian countries they can go.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What is considered rape varies from country to country - witness the extreme difference between Germany and Sweden's laws.  Anyone new to a country needs to learn the laws and culture of that new country.  You can't expect it to be universal.  In addition, you're assuming that rape is perfectly ok in all those countries and cultures those people are coming from.  That isn't necessarily so.
Click to expand...



Funny I never needed a rape or sexual assault class when I traveled internationally.   I just knew that I couldn't grope women or forcibly have sex with them.   

And to the last part of your post.... 
Rape is ok in Muslim countries.   Anytime you need 4 male witnesses to Verify rape there is a problem.    And also where women get charged when they are raped if they come forward.


----------



## Tilly

Uh oh, Coyote Ugly is having another meltdown, lol. Get a grip you silly rape jihad appeasing creature.
Now, 'refugees' are raping women and children (and sometimes men) all across Europe where they've been given shelter, both inside and outside of refugee accommodation. The rapefugees come from various countries, but the thing they have in common is Islam. Since politicians, police and press are determined to cover up the scale of the abuse, just as they did in Rotherham, they are ensuring, not preventing, a move to the right wing, and, inevitably, a backlash.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same abuses were also reported in Germany:
> 
> *Rape and child abuse 'are rife in German refugee camps': Unsegregated conditions blamed as women are 'seen as fair game' in overcrowded migrant centres*
> 
> *Abuses said to be taking place among 5,000 migrants at camp in Giessen*
> *Fear the number of unreported rapes and sexual assaults is significant*
> *It may be taking place at overcrowded refugee centres across the country*
> By ALLAN HALL IN BERLIN FOR MAILONLINE
> 
> PUBLISHED: 19:23, 24 September 2015 | UPDATED: 05:37, 25 September 2015
> 
> A culture of rape and sexual abuse is being allowed to take hold in asylum centres across Germany as Europe struggles to cope with the migrant crisis, it has been alleged,
> 
> Women’s rights groups and politicians have highlighted assaults against women and children in at least one camp.
> 
> And they suggest such incidents may be widespread, with many going unreported to the police.
> 
> Campaigners also claimed some men saw unaccompanied women as ‘fair game’, and also blamed conditions in which occupants were unsegregated by gender or nationality....
> 
> ...
> A letter addressed to the Minister of Integration and Social Affairs in the state of Hesse, where the centre is based, *from four women’s organisations described a ‘culture of rape and violence’.*
> 
> The letter, written on August 18, stated: ‘It is a fact that women and children are unprotected. This situation is opportune to those men who already regard women as their inferior and treat unaccompanied women as “fair game”. *As a consequence, there are reports of numerous rapes, sexual assaults and increasingly of forced prostitution. These are not isolated incidents.’*
> 
> 
> 
> There are fears the number of unreported cases of rape and sexual assault at the Geissen camp
> 
> 
> Women were often too afraid to walk around the camp even during the day, volunteers claimed, while some victims are too terrified to report sexual assaults by the men.
> 
> A police spokesman said there were ‘probably’ many unreported sexual abuses. Giessen City Councillor Astrid Eibelshaeuser said: ‘We know there is rape happening.’
> 
> Johannes-Wilhelm Roerig, the federal commissioner for child sexual abuse issues, said: ‘I am most concerned that refugee children in camps, gymnasiums, or former barracks are not sufficiently protected from sexual assault.’...
> 
> 
> Rape and child abuse are 'rife in German asylum centres'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This particular article illustrates exactly what is happening.  The conditions in these refugee centers are horrible and overcrowded and violence against women and children is endemic.  The article I posted also went into this issue, and noted it is endemic in all refugee centers regardless of religion.  There was a recent expose on an Australian migrant detention center on an island where abuse, especially against children was uncovered.  Women and girls in some of these facilities also become prey to human human traffickers or Arab men looking for cheap sex sanctified by a temporary marriage.
> 
> Few seem to really care what goes on in these places.
> 
> No one is saying it's all imaginary, but there is no data to support a rape epidemic or rape jihad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So it's happening in migrant centre's but it's not a big deal?   Or it's not Muslims .....  But it's happening in migrant centre's .... And European women are still being raped by Muslims ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll repeat what I wrote to Tilly.  No one is saying it's not a big deal.  This is the first time however, I've heard you express an opinion on what is going on in migrant centers.  When you google "rape jihad" and "rape epidemic" what is happening in migrant centers is amazingly scarce.  It's all about a supposed rape epidemic on white European women.
> 
> If European women are being raped at such high rates in Sweden....why has there been NO corresponding increase in Sweden's crime rate reports over the past decade?  You can argue a cover-up, but a cover-up for an entire nation, for the past decade stretches even the most feverish imagination.
Click to expand...


Hard for the stats to be accurate when the Swedish police has doctored the books.     Too bad it's at a boiling point with victims piling up.  

Swedish police accused of covering up sex attacks by refugees at music festival


----------



## Tilly

Coyote said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Utterly disgusting that women in particular would go out of their way to pretend the rape of European women, children, and refugee women and children is a non event.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .....or at least a creature that CLAIMS to be a woman.
> 
> Considering the agenda involved and the track record of incredible deceit, I don't know if we really have any solid reasons to believe the claim.
> 
> What we see happening in Europe where rape is part of the Islamization process, so, too, do Islamists work the internet. They play something akin to a good cop/bad cop routine where the rapists do the dirty work and the online propagandists provide the rhetorical.
> 
> If they can establish that it is the right, proper duty of Western leftists to defend the Jihad, half their work is done.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So we get that you have a rabid and psychotic hatred of Muslims and heroize  a man who went across the country electrocuting live animals on stage...
> 
> Is this why you chose to use a discredited poll from a hate site instead of Pew, in order to slander American Muslims?
> 
> You keep ducking, dodging and deflecting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This thread is about Swedish rapes by migrants.   Why are you bringing up American Muslims?
> 
> If you want to discuss them then please make a thread and we can discuss them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This thread is full of Coyote Ugly's ad hominems, off topic crap about polls, electrocuting dogs, lies about posters (as usual), and of course excuses for refugee rapists and refugee paedophiles. She's hysterical, but not in the humorous way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you taken the time to review your boyfriends posts?  I ignore him, but he won't leave me alone with his off topic crap, lies about me, and ad hominems.  What it seems like, Tilly, is you have quite a double standard.  I try very hard to engage people in discussion, politely - even you and Dogma, but get nothing but insults and lies in return, so I try to ignore you, but you can't leave me alone can you?  Eventually, enough is enough.  Leave me alone, I'll be happy to leave you alone.  Spread lies and adhoms - fine, I'm happy to participate in that as well.  The ball is in your court you passive aggressive twat.
Click to expand...

I can't leave you alone?  LOL.  I very rarely read or respond to your tripe - even when you are lying about me - as you've done in this thread - and even when you address my posts. 
 And as I've told you at least five times - I ignore you - but you are incapable of returning the favour. You are a stalker, and you stalk Dogmaphobe and you stalk me. Now, put your money where your fat feral mouth is and fuck off, there's a dear.


----------



## Tilly

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> Actually my summation of you has nothing to do with your claim that you hate rape.  We all do.  Its that that excuse is nothing more then a thin veneer.  You gave you self away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You "hate" rape?
> 
> Is it that spreading Islam is so important to you that you're willing to excuse a little rape for the glory of Allah?
> 
> I mean, your flaccid attempt to excuse rape Jihad shows hatred, but not hatred of rape.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your concern a out the abuse of women ends once Muslims are out of the picture .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to show one post where uncensored has promoted abuse towards women when a Muslim wasn't involved.
> 
> Or was that just another bs dodge ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> She me one post where I have supported, promoted or made excuses for rape.  Show me one post where I have supported terrorists killing Jews.  Show me one post where I have supported the barbaric excesses of certain Muslims - their treatment of women, ISIS, any of that.
> 
> Don't like it when you're "misrepresented"?  *Well why do you keep doing it?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You made an entire thread about a media conspiracy over migrant rapes and sexual assaults.
> 
> This whole thread is you making an excuse for the migrants and their thirst for rape.
Click to expand...

She also does the exact same thing for every act of brutality, stabbing and even terrorist attacks conducted by Muslims in Europe and the US, one excuse after another, claiming it has absolutley nothing to do with Islam, even when they scream alahu Akbar. She has become utterly ridiculous in the eyes of so many here.


----------



## Uncensored2008

StLucieBengal said:


> [
> 
> So it's happening in migrant centre's but it's not a big deal?   Or it's not Muslims .....  But it's happening in migrant centre's .... And European women are still being raped by Muslims ....



Rape has been part of war throughout human history. In the Hadith al Buquari, the Warlord Muhammad uses looting and rape as reward for his vicious troops. Coyote is fighting a war to end America, this is no joke to the left, they aim to crush the Constitutional Republic into dust. Destroying Western culture and the concepts of individual liberty are vital in the goal of establishing a central authoritarian regime, as the democrats desire.The Muslims are their main allies in this war on America, so it is no surprise Coyote promotes rape; it is a weapon of war the disheartens her enemy.


----------



## Tilly

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same abuses were also reported in Germany:
> 
> *Rape and child abuse 'are rife in German refugee camps': Unsegregated conditions blamed as women are 'seen as fair game' in overcrowded migrant centres*
> 
> *Abuses said to be taking place among 5,000 migrants at camp in Giessen*
> *Fear the number of unreported rapes and sexual assaults is significant*
> *It may be taking place at overcrowded refugee centres across the country*
> By ALLAN HALL IN BERLIN FOR MAILONLINE
> 
> PUBLISHED: 19:23, 24 September 2015 | UPDATED: 05:37, 25 September 2015
> 
> A culture of rape and sexual abuse is being allowed to take hold in asylum centres across Germany as Europe struggles to cope with the migrant crisis, it has been alleged,
> 
> Women’s rights groups and politicians have highlighted assaults against women and children in at least one camp.
> 
> And they suggest such incidents may be widespread, with many going unreported to the police.
> 
> Campaigners also claimed some men saw unaccompanied women as ‘fair game’, and also blamed conditions in which occupants were unsegregated by gender or nationality....
> 
> ...
> A letter addressed to the Minister of Integration and Social Affairs in the state of Hesse, where the centre is based, *from four women’s organisations described a ‘culture of rape and violence’.*
> 
> The letter, written on August 18, stated: ‘It is a fact that women and children are unprotected. This situation is opportune to those men who already regard women as their inferior and treat unaccompanied women as “fair game”. *As a consequence, there are reports of numerous rapes, sexual assaults and increasingly of forced prostitution. These are not isolated incidents.’*
> 
> 
> 
> There are fears the number of unreported cases of rape and sexual assault at the Geissen camp
> 
> 
> Women were often too afraid to walk around the camp even during the day, volunteers claimed, while some victims are too terrified to report sexual assaults by the men.
> 
> A police spokesman said there were ‘probably’ many unreported sexual abuses. Giessen City Councillor Astrid Eibelshaeuser said: ‘We know there is rape happening.’
> 
> Johannes-Wilhelm Roerig, the federal commissioner for child sexual abuse issues, said: ‘I am most concerned that refugee children in camps, gymnasiums, or former barracks are not sufficiently protected from sexual assault.’...
> 
> 
> Rape and child abuse are 'rife in German asylum centres'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This particular article illustrates exactly what is happening.  The conditions in these refugee centers are horrible and overcrowded and violence against women and children is endemic.  The article I posted also went into this issue, and noted it is endemic in all refugee centers regardless of religion.  There was a recent expose on an Australian migrant detention center on an island where abuse, especially against children was uncovered.  Women and girls in some of these facilities also become prey to human human traffickers or Arab men looking for cheap sex sanctified by a temporary marriage.
> 
> Few seem to really care what goes on in these places.
> 
> No one is saying it's all imaginary, but there is no data to support a rape epidemic or rape jihad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So it's happening in migrant centre's but it's not a big deal?   Or it's not Muslims .....  But it's happening in migrant centre's .... And European women are still being raped by Muslims ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll repeat what I wrote to Tilly.  No one is saying it's not a big deal.  This is the first time however, I've heard you express an opinion on what is going on in migrant centers.  When you google "rape jihad" and "rape epidemic" what is happening in migrant centers is amazingly scarce.  It's all about a supposed rape epidemic on white European women.
> 
> If European women are being raped at such high rates in Sweden....why has there been NO corresponding increase in Sweden's crime rate reports over the past decade?  You can argue a cover-up, but a cover-up for an entire nation, for the past decade stretches even the most feverish imagination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hard for the stats to be accurate when the Swedish police has doctored the books.     Too bad it's at a boiling point with victims piling up.
> 
> Swedish police accused of covering up sex attacks by refugees at music festival
Click to expand...

it's not just Sweden that does this, and coyote knows this, which is why she keeps demanding 'stats' lol.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Coyote said:


> [
> 
> She me one post where I have supported, promoted or made excuses for rape.



Debunking Rape Epidemic Claims

That was easy.



> Show me one post where I have supported terrorists killing Jews.  Show me one post where I have supported the barbaric excesses of certain Muslims - their treatment of women, ISIS, any of that.
> 
> Don't like it when you're "misrepresented"?  *Well why do you keep doing it?*



You honestly think your apologetics for rapists don't amount to support? 

Tell you what, show me one post of yours where you have *EVER* criticized Islam, for anything?


----------



## Uncensored2008

Coyote said:


> What is considered rape varies from country to country - witness the extreme difference between Germany and Sweden's laws.  Anyone new to a country needs to learn the laws and culture of that new country.  You can't expect it to be universal.  In addition, you're assuming that rape is perfectly ok in all those countries and cultures those people are coming from.  That isn't necessarily so.



Speaking of posts where you defend rape....


----------



## StLucieBengal

Tilly said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same abuses were also reported in Germany:
> 
> *Rape and child abuse 'are rife in German refugee camps': Unsegregated conditions blamed as women are 'seen as fair game' in overcrowded migrant centres*
> 
> *Abuses said to be taking place among 5,000 migrants at camp in Giessen*
> *Fear the number of unreported rapes and sexual assaults is significant*
> *It may be taking place at overcrowded refugee centres across the country*
> By ALLAN HALL IN BERLIN FOR MAILONLINE
> 
> PUBLISHED: 19:23, 24 September 2015 | UPDATED: 05:37, 25 September 2015
> 
> A culture of rape and sexual abuse is being allowed to take hold in asylum centres across Germany as Europe struggles to cope with the migrant crisis, it has been alleged,
> 
> Women’s rights groups and politicians have highlighted assaults against women and children in at least one camp.
> 
> And they suggest such incidents may be widespread, with many going unreported to the police.
> 
> Campaigners also claimed some men saw unaccompanied women as ‘fair game’, and also blamed conditions in which occupants were unsegregated by gender or nationality....
> 
> ...
> A letter addressed to the Minister of Integration and Social Affairs in the state of Hesse, where the centre is based, *from four women’s organisations described a ‘culture of rape and violence’.*
> 
> The letter, written on August 18, stated: ‘It is a fact that women and children are unprotected. This situation is opportune to those men who already regard women as their inferior and treat unaccompanied women as “fair game”. *As a consequence, there are reports of numerous rapes, sexual assaults and increasingly of forced prostitution. These are not isolated incidents.’*
> 
> 
> 
> There are fears the number of unreported cases of rape and sexual assault at the Geissen camp
> 
> 
> Women were often too afraid to walk around the camp even during the day, volunteers claimed, while some victims are too terrified to report sexual assaults by the men.
> 
> A police spokesman said there were ‘probably’ many unreported sexual abuses. Giessen City Councillor Astrid Eibelshaeuser said: ‘We know there is rape happening.’
> 
> Johannes-Wilhelm Roerig, the federal commissioner for child sexual abuse issues, said: ‘I am most concerned that refugee children in camps, gymnasiums, or former barracks are not sufficiently protected from sexual assault.’...
> 
> 
> Rape and child abuse are 'rife in German asylum centres'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This particular article illustrates exactly what is happening.  The conditions in these refugee centers are horrible and overcrowded and violence against women and children is endemic.  The article I posted also went into this issue, and noted it is endemic in all refugee centers regardless of religion.  There was a recent expose on an Australian migrant detention center on an island where abuse, especially against children was uncovered.  Women and girls in some of these facilities also become prey to human human traffickers or Arab men looking for cheap sex sanctified by a temporary marriage.
> 
> Few seem to really care what goes on in these places.
> 
> No one is saying it's all imaginary, but there is no data to support a rape epidemic or rape jihad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So it's happening in migrant centre's but it's not a big deal?   Or it's not Muslims .....  But it's happening in migrant centre's .... And European women are still being raped by Muslims ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll repeat what I wrote to Tilly.  No one is saying it's not a big deal.  This is the first time however, I've heard you express an opinion on what is going on in migrant centers.  When you google "rape jihad" and "rape epidemic" what is happening in migrant centers is amazingly scarce.  It's all about a supposed rape epidemic on white European women.
> 
> If European women are being raped at such high rates in Sweden....why has there been NO corresponding increase in Sweden's crime rate reports over the past decade?  You can argue a cover-up, but a cover-up for an entire nation, for the past decade stretches even the most feverish imagination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hard for the stats to be accurate when the Swedish police has doctored the books.     Too bad it's at a boiling point with victims piling up.
> 
> Swedish police accused of covering up sex attacks by refugees at music festival
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it's not just Sweden that does this, and coyote knows this, which is why she keeps demanding 'stats' lol.
Click to expand...



Yeah I am well versed in Alinsky tactics, it's the leftists go to moves.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote what is your fascination with Islam and these migrants?    

It seems you desperately want to make every known excuse in the book for them.


----------



## Tilly

Uncensored2008 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is considered rape varies from country to country - witness the extreme difference between Germany and Sweden's laws.  Anyone new to a country needs to learn the laws and culture of that new country.  You can't expect it to be universal.  In addition, you're assuming that rape is perfectly ok in all those countries and cultures those people are coming from.  That isn't necessarily so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of posts where you defend rape....
Click to expand...

Exactly! Ha ha ha. You can't expect it to be universal that men know they shouldn't rape and sexually assault women and children??? 
An excellent argument for not letting any of them in!


----------



## StLucieBengal

Tilly said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is considered rape varies from country to country - witness the extreme difference between Germany and Sweden's laws.  Anyone new to a country needs to learn the laws and culture of that new country.  You can't expect it to be universal.  In addition, you're assuming that rape is perfectly ok in all those countries and cultures those people are coming from.  That isn't necessarily so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of posts where you defend rape....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly! Ha ha ha. You can't expect it to be universal that men know they shouldn't rape women and children???
Click to expand...


It amazes me how I just know not to rape women and children when I travel.   No matter where I go I always know to not rape anyone let alone women or children.    

Maybe it's Magic?


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> Have you taken the time to review your boyfriends posts?  I ignore him, but he won't leave me alone with his off topic crap, lies about me, and ad hominems.  What it seems like, Tilly, is you have quite a double standard.  I try very hard to engage people in discussion, politely - even you and Dogma, but get nothing but insults and lies in return, so I try to ignore you, but you can't leave me alone can you?  Eventually, enough is enough.  Leave me alone, I'll be happy to leave you alone.  Spread lies and adhoms - fine, I'm happy to participate in that as well.  The ball is in your court you passive aggressive twat.




 You are frothing again, Coyote.

You know what your therapist said about your frothing and the deleterious effect it has on your potential for recovery.   Entertaining all these intrusive thoughts coursing through your head about imaginary boyfriends and claims that your following people around indicating that you think Muslim rapes are funny is actually a case of YOUR being persecuted is just not going to help you if you ever wish to seek some semblance of normalcy.


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is considered rape varies from country to country - witness the extreme difference between Germany and Sweden's laws.  Anyone new to a country needs to learn the laws and culture of that new country.  You can't expect it to be universal.  In addition, you're assuming that rape is perfectly ok in all those countries and cultures those people are coming from.  That isn't necessarily so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of posts where you defend rape....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly! Ha ha ha. You can't expect it to be universal that men know they shouldn't rape women and children???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It amazes me how I just know not to rape women and children when I travel.   No matter where I go I always know to not rape anyone let alone women or children.
> 
> Maybe it's Magic?
Click to expand...



It's how you were brought up.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> It's how you were brought up.



You were brought up to defend rapists as long as that is part of their culture?

That's really weird, Coyote.

Healthy people would criticize such a sick culture rather than making it their very raison d 'etre to defend it.


----------



## Tilly

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's how you were brought up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were brought up to defend rapists as long as that is part of their culture?
> 
> That's really weird, Coyote.
> 
> Healthy people would criticize such a sick culture rather than making it their very raison d 'etre to defend it.
Click to expand...

Exactly. And why would anyone want to import men who weren't brought up to at least know they must not sexually assault and rape women and children - and any unwilling person? Why are assaults and rapes by these ignorant animals an acceptable price for anyone to pay?
The poor 10 yr old boy who was raped by that filthy animal who had a 'sexual emergency' has had his life destroyed, for what?
All those who feel 'empathy' with filthy pigs who allegedly 'don't know' they should not rape and sexually assault women and children, PARTICULALRY THE FEMALE RAPE JIHAD APOLOGISTS -  should be sent off to these crap holes TO SEE HOW THEY DO EDUATING THEM THERE - rather than bringing the pigs here to rape to their hearts content.


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote what is your fascination with Islam and these migrants?
> 
> It seems you desperately want to make every known excuse in the book for them.




One.  I'm not making excuses.  Name one excuse I've given for rape, or any other violent behavior.  I want the truth.  What is the truth?  What are the facts when you strip emotional hype and fear?

Fear drives us to unspeakable things to our fellow people.

My fascination is less with Islam then it is with scapegoating and broadbrushing an entire group of people and right now, it's acceptable to scapegoat Muslims broadly and completely, with out regard to whether it's conspiracy theory, the actions of a few, or hype over fact.  Seems to be me any right thinking person should be concerned when a group gets scapegoated.  We don't tolerate it when it's Jews or Blacks do we?  How do our resident racists/anti-semites get treated?  Not with respect.  But when it comes to Muslims, it's the broad brush and if you question it, ask for facts, you are labeled.

I'll give an example.  Why do I press Dogma on the issue of a poll?  Because, in a thread on American Muslims, he wanted to show that American Muslims are just as violent, extremist, intolerant, etc as he views Muslims in other countries.  Previously he had used Pew, a well respected non-partisan source for views of Muslims around the world towards Sharia, apostacy, homosexuality and women's rights.  So did he use Pew in this thread?  No.  He chose a poll that who's methodology is roundly criticized and debunked, from a site widely considered way out there by many, and a hate site, who's results purported to show something like over 50% suppported religous violence and Sharia as law of the land, or something.  This completely contradicted Pew, which showed American Muslims are largely the same as other demographic groups in America in their opinions towards seperation of religion and state, violence, homosexuality, and women's rights.  So, Pew is "good enough" for worldwide opinion but suddenly not "good enough" for American Muslim opinion?  When a person deliberately chooses to use something from a disreputable site over something from a reputable site - I think it's reasonable to ask "why" and what are the motivations?

My "fascination" with migrants and refugees is because they are PEOPLE, living, breathing people who have gone through horrendous experiences in an attempt to escape what are often desperate situations.  It takes a particular desperation and courage to do that, and the death toll in those sea voyages and at the hands of traffickers is very high.  We tend to forget they are human beings.


----------



## Coyote

Uncensored2008 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is considered rape varies from country to country - witness the extreme difference between Germany and Sweden's laws.  Anyone new to a country needs to learn the laws and culture of that new country.  You can't expect it to be universal.  In addition, you're assuming that rape is perfectly ok in all those countries and cultures those people are coming from.  That isn't necessarily so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of posts where you defend rape....
Click to expand...


I'm defending rape just as much as you are.

Stating the LEGAL facts of what constitutes rape across countries, so people in those countries can be educated on it is not defending rape.

Are you one of those who thinks it's only rape if a woman actively resists it?
Maybe you're one of those who thinks it's not rape if it's a wife and husband?
Or is it only rape if there is penetration?

What one country or culture considers is not the same as another and I specifically gave as an example Sweden and Germany for widely divergent views so it's important that new immigrants are clear on what it is in their new country.

If you want to know what I consider rape, it's likely the same as what you consider rape.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is considered rape varies from country to country - witness the extreme difference between Germany and Sweden's laws.  Anyone new to a country needs to learn the laws and culture of that new country.  You can't expect it to be universal.  In addition, you're assuming that rape is perfectly ok in all those countries and cultures those people are coming from.  That isn't necessarily so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of posts where you defend rape....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly! Ha ha ha. You can't expect it to be universal that men know they shouldn't rape women and children???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It amazes me how I just know not to rape women and children when I travel.   No matter where I go I always know to not rape anyone let alone women or children.
> 
> Maybe it's Magic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's how you were brought up.
Click to expand...


yes of course 

I wasn't raised in Islam.


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> This particular article illustrates exactly what is happening.  The conditions in these refugee centers are horrible and overcrowded and violence against women and children is endemic.  The article I posted also went into this issue, and noted it is endemic in all refugee centers regardless of religion.  There was a recent expose on an Australian migrant detention center on an island where abuse, especially against children was uncovered.  Women and girls in some of these facilities also become prey to human human traffickers or Arab men looking for cheap sex sanctified by a temporary marriage.
> 
> Few seem to really care what goes on in these places.
> 
> No one is saying it's all imaginary, but there is no data to support a rape epidemic or rape jihad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So it's happening in migrant centre's but it's not a big deal?   Or it's not Muslims .....  But it's happening in migrant centre's .... And European women are still being raped by Muslims ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll repeat what I wrote to Tilly.  No one is saying it's not a big deal.  This is the first time however, I've heard you express an opinion on what is going on in migrant centers.  When you google "rape jihad" and "rape epidemic" what is happening in migrant centers is amazingly scarce.  It's all about a supposed rape epidemic on white European women.
> 
> If European women are being raped at such high rates in Sweden....why has there been NO corresponding increase in Sweden's crime rate reports over the past decade?  You can argue a cover-up, but a cover-up for an entire nation, for the past decade stretches even the most feverish imagination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hard for the stats to be accurate when the Swedish police has doctored the books.     Too bad it's at a boiling point with victims piling up.
> 
> Swedish police accused of covering up sex attacks by refugees at music festival
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it's not just Sweden that does this, and coyote knows this, which is why she keeps demanding 'stats' lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I am well versed in Alinsky tactics, it's the leftists go to moves.
Click to expand...


Ya, I see it from the right all the time.


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you taken the time to review your boyfriends posts?  I ignore him, but he won't leave me alone with his off topic crap, lies about me, and ad hominems.  What it seems like, Tilly, is you have quite a double standard.  I try very hard to engage people in discussion, politely - even you and Dogma, but get nothing but insults and lies in return, so I try to ignore you, but you can't leave me alone can you?  Eventually, enough is enough.  Leave me alone, I'll be happy to leave you alone.  Spread lies and adhoms - fine, I'm happy to participate in that as well.  The ball is in your court you passive aggressive twat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are frothing again, Coyote.
> 
> You know what your therapist said about your frothing and the deleterious effect it has on your potential for recovery.   Entertaining all these intrusive thoughts coursing through your head about imaginary boyfriends and claims that your following people around indicating that you think Muslim rapes are funny is actually a case of YOUR being persecuted is just not going to help you if you ever wish to seek some semblance of normalcy.
Click to expand...


Rape isn't funny.  You, however are.

Still deflecting....


----------



## Coyote

Tilly said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is considered rape varies from country to country - witness the extreme difference between Germany and Sweden's laws.  Anyone new to a country needs to learn the laws and culture of that new country.  You can't expect it to be universal.  In addition, you're assuming that rape is perfectly ok in all those countries and cultures those people are coming from.  That isn't necessarily so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of posts where you defend rape....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly! Ha ha ha. You can't expect it to be universal that men know they shouldn't rape and sexually assault women and children???
> An excellent argument for not letting any of them in!
Click to expand...



Or teaching them.  Of course, that is assuming you are correct in thinking the majority of them believe it's ok to assault women and children.


----------



## Tilly

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is considered rape varies from country to country - witness the extreme difference between Germany and Sweden's laws.  Anyone new to a country needs to learn the laws and culture of that new country.  You can't expect it to be universal.  In addition, you're assuming that rape is perfectly ok in all those countries and cultures those people are coming from.  That isn't necessarily so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of posts where you defend rape....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly! Ha ha ha. You can't expect it to be universal that men know they shouldn't rape women and children???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It amazes me how I just know not to rape women and children when I travel.   No matter where I go I always know to not rape anyone let alone women or children.
> 
> Maybe it's Magic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's how you were brought up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes of course
> 
> I wasn't raised in Islam.
Click to expand...

Exactly. And If people aren't raised not to rape, we have no business importing them and sacrificing our women and children to them.


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ridgerunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Freja is a 50 year old bloke with a cellar full of nazi memorabilia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like your collection of naked Neville Chamberlain pics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *I just love these threads started by rape apologists.
> They could give a damn less about the victims.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh please, you know damn well you guys don't give a damn about rape, or other abusive crimes against women and girls such as child marriages UNLESS Muslims are involved
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to test than theory and post a thread about a story of a pedo rapist and see what happens .
Click to expand...



Here is a list of threads involving abusive practices to women, rape, child rape, etc.  Feel free to join in.  Most didn't get much attention.

Ex-Employee Leaks Details About Refugee Abuse On Nauru
Child Marriages
Rape
Worst Places for Women
For India's Widows, A Riot Of Color, An Act Of Liberation
Congolese Doctor Denis Mukwege Receives Sakharov Prize
In Congo, Trapped In Violence And Forgotten


----------



## Uncensored2008

Coyote said:


> It's how you were brought up.



So what you're saying is that Muslims were brought up to believe that raping women and children is okay - Allahu Akbar.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Coyote said:


> I'm defending rape just as much as you are.



False.

I am not defending rape, where you are.



> Stating the LEGAL facts of what constitutes rape across countries, so people in those countries can be educated on it is not defending rape.



You are excusing the acts of Muslim barbarians based on your parsing of various laws. It impresses no one.



> Are you one of those who thinks it's only rape if a woman actively resists it?



My understanding is that the European rape victims, who you deny even exist, resist quite vigorously the rape jihad of your Muslim allies.



> Maybe you're one of those who thinks it's not rape if it's a wife and husband?
> Or is it only rape if there is penetration?
> 
> What one country or culture considers is not the same as another and I specifically gave as an example Sweden and Germany for widely divergent views so it's important that new immigrants are clear on what it is in their new country.
> 
> If you want to know what I consider rape, it's likely the same as what you consider rape.



Your desperation to defend rape by your allies is apparent, and disgusting.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote what is your fascination with Islam and these migrants?
> 
> It seems you desperately want to make every known excuse in the book for them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One.  I'm not making excuses.  Name one excuse I've given for rape, or any other violent behavior.  I want the truth.  What is the truth?  What are the facts when you strip emotional hype and fear?
> 
> Fear drives us to unspeakable things to our fellow people.
> 
> My fascination is less with Islam then it is with scapegoating and broadbrushing an entire group of people and right now, it's acceptable to scapegoat Muslims broadly and completely, with out regard to whether it's conspiracy theory, the actions of a few, or hype over fact.  Seems to be me any right thinking person should be concerned when a group gets scapegoated.  We don't tolerate it when it's Jews or Blacks do we?  How do our resident racists/anti-semites get treated?  Not with respect.  But when it comes to Muslims, it's the broad brush and if you question it, ask for facts, you are labeled.
> 
> I'll give an example.  Why do I press Dogma on the issue of a poll?  Because, in a thread on American Muslims, he wanted to show that American Muslims are just as violent, extremist, intolerant, etc as he views Muslims in other countries.  Previously he had used Pew, a well respected non-partisan source for views of Muslims around the world towards Sharia, apostacy, homosexuality and women's rights.  So did he use Pew in this thread?  No.  He chose a poll that who's methodology is roundly criticized and debunked, from a site widely considered way out there by many, and a hate site, who's results purported to show something like over 50% suppported religous violence and Sharia as law of the land, or something.  This completely contradicted Pew, which showed American Muslims are largely the same as other demographic groups in America in their opinions towards seperation of religion and state, violence, homosexuality, and women's rights.  So, Pew is "good enough" for worldwide opinion but suddenly not "good enough" for American Muslim opinion?  When a person deliberately chooses to use something from a disreputable site over something from a reputable site - I think it's reasonable to ask "why" and what are the motivations?
> 
> My "fascination" with migrants and refugees is because they are PEOPLE, living, breathing people who have gone through horrendous experiences in an attempt to escape what are often desperate situations.  It takes a particular desperation and courage to do that, and the death toll in those sea voyages and at the hands of traffickers is very high.  We tend to forget they are human beings.
Click to expand...


1. This entire thread is about a conspiracy against Muslims.  This is an excuse to the media reports of them rapefugees.   

2. On broad stroking a group of people....   If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck... It's a duck.   

Muslims worldwide share the belief in oppression of women and children.   Not all rape away in praise to Allah.    But they do support wearing oppressive garmets.    

This is my biggest issue with Islam.    Their constant oppression, which has no place in western society.   Which is why I would shut the borders to them.   Until they had a reformation to remove these beliefs and teachings .   My wife is Russian orthodox and wears a scarf in church but only wears it in church.   She doesn't wear it everywhere .... She still believes in God and isn't any less of an orthodox because of this ....  How is this any different than a Muslim?     

3. How you treat other posters is of no concern to me in this discussion.   That is between you and them.     I am more concerned with the topic and not a side argument over past threads.    

4. So you would be willing to take on any people as long as they can make it here?  

This type of belief is just not feasible in our society.    If we didn't have any social benefits then possibly....   But we  just can afford adding people from the 3rd world.    Not to mention the harm it would do our culture to be flooded with 3rd worlders.   

And it's not courageous for fighting aged men to flee the fight to go to the west.     Were you also cheering on the guy in titanic who got on the lifeboat ahead of women and children?    Was he courageous?    

As for being human beings....    If they are brought up to believe In oppression and rape of women and children....  Just how human are they?    Sounds more like how animals believe....


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it's happening in migrant centre's but it's not a big deal?   Or it's not Muslims .....  But it's happening in migrant centre's .... And European women are still being raped by Muslims ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll repeat what I wrote to Tilly.  No one is saying it's not a big deal.  This is the first time however, I've heard you express an opinion on what is going on in migrant centers.  When you google "rape jihad" and "rape epidemic" what is happening in migrant centers is amazingly scarce.  It's all about a supposed rape epidemic on white European women.
> 
> If European women are being raped at such high rates in Sweden....why has there been NO corresponding increase in Sweden's crime rate reports over the past decade?  You can argue a cover-up, but a cover-up for an entire nation, for the past decade stretches even the most feverish imagination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hard for the stats to be accurate when the Swedish police has doctored the books.     Too bad it's at a boiling point with victims piling up.
> 
> Swedish police accused of covering up sex attacks by refugees at music festival
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it's not just Sweden that does this, and coyote knows this, which is why she keeps demanding 'stats' lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I am well versed in Alinsky tactics, it's the leftists go to moves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya, I see it from the right all the time.
Click to expand...


Call them out if they are using Alinsky tactics.    Call it out for what it is ....


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is considered rape varies from country to country - witness the extreme difference between Germany and Sweden's laws.  Anyone new to a country needs to learn the laws and culture of that new country.  You can't expect it to be universal.  In addition, you're assuming that rape is perfectly ok in all those countries and cultures those people are coming from.  That isn't necessarily so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of posts where you defend rape....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly! Ha ha ha. You can't expect it to be universal that men know they shouldn't rape and sexually assault women and children???
> An excellent argument for not letting any of them in!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Or teaching them.  Of course, that is assuming you are correct in thinking the majority of them believe it's ok to assault women and children.
Click to expand...


The majority of them believe it's ok to oppress women and children.    

They may not all rape away but they all do spread around the oppression.


----------



## Coyote

Uncensored2008 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> She me one post where I have supported, promoted or made excuses for rape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Debunking Rape Epidemic Claims
> 
> That was easy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Show me one post where I have supported terrorists killing Jews.  Show me one post where I have supported the barbaric excesses of certain Muslims - their treatment of women, ISIS, any of that.
> 
> Don't like it when you're "misrepresented"?  *Well why do you keep doing it?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You honestly think your apologetics for rapists don't amount to support?
> 
> Tell you what, show me one post of yours where you have *EVER* criticized Islam, for anything?
Click to expand...


Talk about Alinski tactics ...

So, debunking false claims of an "epidemic" or "rape jihad" is now "defending rape".

That's quite stretch.

Here is one:  Child Marriages  Islam as practiced in UAE/Kuwait/SA allows men to have sex by temporarily marrying women, and then dumping them, it's not considered adultry, and allows them to essentially rape these young girls and dump them when they get pregnant.  This also fuels the human trafficking problem there.


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is considered rape varies from country to country - witness the extreme difference between Germany and Sweden's laws.  Anyone new to a country needs to learn the laws and culture of that new country.  You can't expect it to be universal.  In addition, you're assuming that rape is perfectly ok in all those countries and cultures those people are coming from.  That isn't necessarily so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of posts where you defend rape....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly! Ha ha ha. You can't expect it to be universal that men know they shouldn't rape and sexually assault women and children???
> An excellent argument for not letting any of them in!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Or teaching them.  Of course, that is assuming you are correct in thinking the majority of them believe it's ok to assault women and children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The majority of them believe it's ok to oppress women and children.
> 
> They may not all rape away but they all do spread around the oppression.
Click to expand...


How do you know the "majority" of the world's 1.6 billion muslims believe it's ok to oppress women and children, or assault them?  What do you base this on?


----------



## Coyote

Uncensored2008 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's how you were brought up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what you're saying is that Muslims were brought up to believe that raping women and children is okay - Allahu Akbar.
Click to expand...



No.  That is what you are saying.  I'm saying individuals are brought up and how they treat women is a reflection of that.


----------



## Coyote

Uncensored2008 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm defending rape just as much as you are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> False.
> 
> I am not defending rape, where you are.
Click to expand...


False.

Link to one post where I DEFEND rape.



> Stating the LEGAL facts of what constitutes rape across countries, so people in those countries can be educated on it is not defending rape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are excusing the acts of Muslim barbarians based on your parsing of various laws. It impresses no one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you one of those who thinks it's only rape if a woman actively resists it?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Link to one post where I am defending it.  You can't so you have to lie about it.  Typical.

In addition, you and Tilly are completely ignoring WHY law was brought up in this thread in the first place, in your typically dishonest fashion.  It was brought up, not to defend or even argue about what constitutes rape, but because one of the posters here was trying to insist we should should look at as a whole in terms of rape crime statistics - which you can't do if each country defines rape differently.  If you had an honest bone in your body you would realize that.



> My understanding is that the European rape victims, who you deny even exist, resist quite vigorously the rape jihad of your Muslim allies.



Once again, more lies from you.  I do not deny European rape victims exist.  What I deny is your claim of "rape jihad" which is NOT reflected in the Swedish crime statistics of the past decade.  A "rape epidemic" or "jihad" of such proportions could not be successfully covered up over an entire nation, for the past decade.  So why is there no discernable rise in the crime statistics?  Who's making excuses here?





> Maybe you're one of those who thinks it's not rape if it's a wife and husband?
> Or is it only rape if there is penetration?
> 
> What one country or culture considers is not the same as another and I specifically gave as an example Sweden and Germany for widely divergent views so it's important that new immigrants are clear on what it is in their new country.
> 
> If you want to know what I consider rape, it's likely the same as what you consider rape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your desperation to defend rape by your allies is apparent, and disgusting.
Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]

Again - show me ONE post where I defend or excuse rape.  Hint:  asking for facts and data to prove claims is not "defending" the act.  You do understand that don't you?


----------



## Uncensored2008

Coyote said:


> Talk about Alinski tactics ...
> 
> So, debunking false claims of an "epidemic" or "rape jihad" is now "defending rape".
> 
> That's quite stretch.
> 
> Here is one:  Child Marriages  Islam as practiced in UAE/Kuwait/SA allows men to have sex by temporarily marrying women, and then dumping them, it's not considered adultry, and allows them to essentially rape these young girls and dump them when they get pregnant.  This also fuels the human trafficking problem there.



So you claim not to defend rape, then turn around and defend it.

When you deny that women brutalized by your allies are even victims, that is some disgusting "blame the victim" bullshit.

When the violent and evil Warlord Muhammad was charging across the Arabian peninsula, the thugs who were his soldiers wanted to know what was in it for them? Muhammad granted them the right to rape and pillage as reward. "Temporary marriage" is how the evil fuck justified rape by his goons. A 15 minute "marriage"  meant that the rapist/Muslim was not committing adultery under Sharia.

Rape is a foundational part of Islam, granted by the filthy "prophet" himself.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Coyote said:


> No.  That is what you are saying.  I'm saying individuals are brought up and how they treat women is a reflection of that.



Ah, so you are reduced to the Peewee Herman "I know you are but what am I" routine.

This level of meltdown shows that you are utterly defeated.


----------



## Tilly

I wish Coyote Ugly could be locked in a room (it would have to be an enormous room) with the 10 yr old rape victim  who can no longer sleep and who lives with daily panic attacks, and with all the other children and women who have been raped and sexually assaulted across Europe. Somehow, I don't think they'd be comforted with her utterly gross defence of the filthy animal perps, nor with her whitterings about bringing them here to rape - whilst we hope that 'educating' them to ignore the religion and upbringing that tells them women are chattel - works at some point.
Wow. Just wow.


----------



## Coyote

Uncensored2008 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.  That is what you are saying.  I'm saying individuals are brought up and how they treat women is a reflection of that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so you are reduced to the Peewee Herman "I know you are but what am I" routine.
> 
> This level of meltdown shows that you are utterly defeated.
Click to expand...




How women are treated by men is a reflection of how they are brought up.  Yes? No?
Culture plays a role in this.  Yes? No?
Individual family values plays a role in this.  Yes? No?

What you WANT to say is Islam is one culture and as a whole it teaches men to assault and rape women and children.  It doesn't.

Are you capable of an honest discussion?  Or, are you just going to troll?


----------



## Coyote

Uncensored2008 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Talk about Alinski tactics ...
> 
> So, debunking false claims of an "epidemic" or "rape jihad" is now "defending rape".
> 
> That's quite stretch.
> 
> Here is one:  Child Marriages  Islam as practiced in UAE/Kuwait/SA allows men to have sex by temporarily marrying women, and then dumping them, it's not considered adultry, and allows them to essentially rape these young girls and dump them when they get pregnant.  This also fuels the human trafficking problem there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you claim not to defend rape, then turn around and defend it.
> 
> When you deny that women brutalized by your allies are even victims, that is some disgusting "blame the victim" bullshit.
> 
> When the violent and evil Warlord Muhammad was charging across the Arabian peninsula, the thugs who were his soldiers wanted to know what was in it for them? Muhammad granted them the right to rape and pillage as reward. "Temporary marriage" is how the evil fuck justified rape by his goons. A 15 minute "marriage"  meant that the rapist/Muslim was not committing adultery under Sharia.
> 
> Rape is a foundational part of Islam, granted by the filthy "prophet" himself.
Click to expand...


Strike out rational discussion with you then.  Using your rather distorted logic, I can only assume your concern with rape and child abuse starts and ends with Islam.

Thank you for our input.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Uncensored2008 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's how you were brought up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what you're saying is that Muslims were brought up to believe that raping women and children is okay - Allahu Akbar.
Click to expand...



 Yes, she acknowledges that their culture condones the actions.  She then proceeds to defend the culture as she has done in countless thousands of postings.

Despite her admitting that she is doing so knowingly, she is still lying about the nature of her defense.

 if she believes her own crap, she is simply too delusional to function in society..


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ridgerunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Freja is a 50 year old bloke with a cellar full of nazi memorabilia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like your collection of naked Neville Chamberlain pics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *I just love these threads started by rape apologists.
> They could give a damn less about the victims.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh please, you know damn well you guys don't give a damn about rape, or other abusive crimes against women and girls such as child marriages UNLESS Muslims are involved
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to test than theory and post a thread about a story of a pedo rapist and see what happens .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a list of threads involving abusive practices to women, rape, child rape, etc.  Feel free to join in.  Most didn't get much attention.
> 
> Ex-Employee Leaks Details About Refugee Abuse On Nauru
> Child Marriages
> Rape
> Worst Places for Women
> For India's Widows, A Riot Of Color, An Act Of Liberation
> Congolese Doctor Denis Mukwege Receives Sakharov Prize
> In Congo, Trapped In Violence And Forgotten
Click to expand...



I will check these as I go.    But if you are looking for sympathy for anyone who chooses not to live right then you are barking up the wrong tree.    

I would shut borders from any place that oppresses women and/or children.       I think we need less of these people and more of the people who know how to live right.    

My sister in law lives in Belarus and she would be a much better addition to any western country than anyone from the Middle East outside of Israel.   But she refuses to enter any country by hook or crook.  

If you want to discuss immigration policy then I would take a page from the US immigration 1924 and limit each country to 3% yearly of the foreign born population of legal citizens.       I would block the Middle East and Central America.   One being at war with Islamic terrorism and Central America for the purpose to allow us to work through all the current illegals in this country.   Given most are from Central America.    A 10 year hold on immigration from these parts should allow us to catch up and tackle the current illegals.    After we round up any of them who have had a felony and deported them immediately.    

Immigration should be a slow and steady drip so they can assimilate to our nation and our cultural beliefs since they are moving to be part of our culture.    

I love the Australian point system for immigration.   If you are not familiar then I encourage you to familiarize yourself.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is considered rape varies from country to country - witness the extreme difference between Germany and Sweden's laws.  Anyone new to a country needs to learn the laws and culture of that new country.  You can't expect it to be universal.  In addition, you're assuming that rape is perfectly ok in all those countries and cultures those people are coming from.  That isn't necessarily so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of posts where you defend rape....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly! Ha ha ha. You can't expect it to be universal that men know they shouldn't rape and sexually assault women and children???
> An excellent argument for not letting any of them in!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Or teaching them.  Of course, that is assuming you are correct in thinking the majority of them believe it's ok to assault women and children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The majority of them believe it's ok to oppress women and children.
> 
> They may not all rape away but they all do spread around the oppression.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How do you know the "majority" of the world's 1.6 billion muslims believe it's ok to oppress women and children, or assault them?  What do you base this on?
Click to expand...


Well we can start just by the amount who force/insist women to wear the hijab/burqa/or any head scarf.     They can chalk it up to religious this and that but you can't force anyone to wear certain clothes in the western world.   

As for the Muslims who don't require this to be worn that's a good start.    These are the types of reformations that need to happen.... This has happened in just about every other religion.   They have evolved with western culture.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Coyote said:


> Strike out rational discussion with you then.  Using your rather distorted logic, I can only assume your concern with rape and child abuse starts and ends with Islam.
> 
> Thank you for our input.



Rational? 

Nothing rational about your posts. 

Facts;

There is an epidemic of rape in Europe.

Your close allies, the Islamic radicals are the major perpetrators of these rapes.

You are so hostile to the victims that you deny that these rapes are even wrong.

{
*Sweden* has the highest rate of rape in Europe, with the UN reporting 69 rape cases per 100,000 inhabitants in 2011, according to author and advocate of power feminism Naomi Wolf on opinion website Project Syndicate.

In 2010, Swedish police recorded the highest number of offences - about 63 per 100,000 inhabitants - of any force in Europe. That was the second highest in the world after Lesotho.

"According to rape crisis advocates in Sweden, one-third of Swedish women have been sexually assaulted by the time they leave their teens. According to a study published in 2003, and other later studies through 2009, Sweden has the highest sexual assault rate in Europe, and among the lowest conviction rates," Wolf wrote.

A 2010 Amnesty report said: "In Sweden, according to official crime statistics, the number of reported rapes has quadrupled during the past 20 years. In 2008, there were just over 4,000 rapes of people over 15, the great majority of them girls and women."}

Top 5 countries with the highest rates of rape

Look, you exist to promote the Khmer Rouge democratic party, which is currently allied with ISIS/Radical Islam. I get it, you cover for the rape of Western women as loyalty to your party and the goals of the party to crush Western culture. STILL by denying a voice to the victims of rape, by denying that the trauma they suffered even exists, you engage in the most despicable act that anyone other than the perpetrator can.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.  That is what you are saying.  I'm saying individuals are brought up and how they treat women is a reflection of that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so you are reduced to the Peewee Herman "I know you are but what am I" routine.
> 
> This level of meltdown shows that you are utterly defeated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How women are treated by men is a reflection of how they are brought up.  Yes? No?
> Culture plays a role in this.  Yes? No?
> Individual family values plays a role in this.  Yes? No?
> 
> What you WANT to say is Islam is one culture and as a whole it teaches men to assault and rape women and children.  It doesn't.
> 
> Are you capable of an honest discussion?  Or, are you just going to troll?
Click to expand...


Yes your upbringing has a lot to do with your behavior.   If you are raised in the world where your mother and sisters can't speak unless spoken to, are forced to wear only certain clothing, and can't walk any closer than 6 feet behind their men.   You are bound to pick up on that learned behavior and treat women and children like animals.  

The Islamic culture teaches these lessons.   And we all know religion shapes how we raise our children with a particular set of values.    I was raised Catholic and my parents were Catholic and Methodist.    My wife is Russian orthodox and I am Catholic we actually go to both church services since they are really similar.   and these values shape how we raise our children.   I can promise you that if either church started preaching to oppress women or that raping them or children was ok then we would find a new church.      

The Muslims don't do this ....   The ones who disagree just sit there and stay quiet so they aren't shouted down.        

Very similar to the Obama's and how they just sat there in Jeremiah Wright's church and listened to his hatred for 20+ years ....   They sat there because they believed the words he was preaching.    

I am not here to troll anyone.   I am however, here to discuss the facts of the topics and to call things for what they are....  We don't get anywhere by trying to make everything look good when evil is present.    

And yes if you are oppressing women and children then you are evil.   

Below showing their religion allows them to take captives of women.   Jihad is only against non Muslims so treating non Muslim women like slaves is what they are taught.     Which explains the migrant rape epidemic in Europe.    

I am sure there are countless others who can post multiple Quran links to passages explaining this in greater detail.   If no one else posts them I will follow up with some of my own.    

_Muslim men can take “captives of the right hand” (Qur’an 4:3, 4:24, 33:50). The Qur’an says: “O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war” (33:50). 4:3 and 4:24 extend this privilege to Muslim men in general. The Qur’an says that a man may have sex with his wives and with these slave girls: “The believers must (eventually) win through, those who humble themselves in their prayers; who avoid vain talk; who are active in deeds of charity; who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess, for (in their case) they are free from blame.” (Qur’an 23:1-6)_


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Talk about Alinski tactics ...
> 
> So, debunking false claims of an "epidemic" or "rape jihad" is now "defending rape".
> 
> That's quite stretch.
> 
> Here is one:  Child Marriages  Islam as practiced in UAE/Kuwait/SA allows men to have sex by temporarily marrying women, and then dumping them, it's not considered adultry, and allows them to essentially rape these young girls and dump them when they get pregnant.  This also fuels the human trafficking problem there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you claim not to defend rape, then turn around and defend it.
> 
> When you deny that women brutalized by your allies are even victims, that is some disgusting "blame the victim" bullshit.
> 
> When the violent and evil Warlord Muhammad was charging across the Arabian peninsula, the thugs who were his soldiers wanted to know what was in it for them? Muhammad granted them the right to rape and pillage as reward. "Temporary marriage" is how the evil fuck justified rape by his goons. A 15 minute "marriage"  meant that the rapist/Muslim was not committing adultery under Sharia.
> 
> Rape is a foundational part of Islam, granted by the filthy "prophet" himself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Strike out rational discussion with you then.  Using your rather distorted logic, I can only assume your concern with rape and child abuse starts and ends with Islam.
> 
> Thank you for our input.
Click to expand...



I will leave you to figure out which rules for radical tactic you just used in that post.   

Will give you your due if you can correctly acknowledge which rule you used in that post.   

_
*Saul Alinsky’s 12 Rules for Radicals*

* RULE 1: “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.” Power is derived from 2 main sources – money and people. “Have-Nots” must build power from flesh and blood. (These are two things of which there is a plentiful supply. Government and corporations always have a difficult time appealing to people, and usually do so almost exclusively with economic arguments.)

* RULE 2: “Never go outside the expertise of your people.” It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone. (Organizations under attack wonder why radicals don’t address the “real” issues. This is why. They avoid things with which they have no knowledge.)

* RULE 3: “Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.” Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)

* RULE 4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.” If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. (This is a serious rule. The besieged entity’s very credibility and reputation is at stake, because if activists catch it lying or not living up to its commitments, they can continue to chip away at the damage.)

* RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.)

* RULE 6: “A good tactic is one your people enjoy.” They’ll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They’re doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones. (Radical activists, in this sense, are no different that any other human being. We all avoid “un-fun” activities, and but we revel at and enjoy the ones that work and bring results.)

* RULE 7: “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.” Don’t become old news. (Even radical activists get bored. So to keep them excited and involved, organizers are constantly coming up with new tactics.)

* RULE 8: “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.” Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new. (Attack, attack, attack from all sides, never giving the reeling organization a chance to rest, regroup, recover and re-strategize.)

* RULE 9: “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.” Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist. (Perception is reality. Large organizations always prepare a worst-case scenario, something that may be furthest from the activists’ minds. The upshot is that the organization will expend enormous time and energy, creating in its own collective mind the direst of conclusions. The possibilities can easily poison the mind and result in demoralization.)

* RULE 10: “If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.” Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog. (Unions used this tactic. Peaceful [albeit loud] demonstrations during the heyday of unions in the early to mid-20th Century incurred management’s wrath, often in the form of violence that eventually brought public sympathy to their side.)

* RULE 11: “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.” Never let the enemy score points because you’re caught without a solution to the problem. (Old saw: If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. Activist organizations have an agenda, and their strategy is to hold a place at the table, to be given a forum to wield their power. So, they have to have a compromise solution.)

* RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)
_


----------



## StLucieBengal

Tilly said:


> I wish Coyote Ugly could be locked in a room (it would have to be an enormous room) with the 10 yr old rape victim  who can no longer sleep and who lives with daily panic attacks, and with all the other children and women who have been raped and sexually assaulted across Europe. Somehow, I don't think they'd be comforted with her utterly gross defence of the filthy animal perps, nor with her whitterings about bringing them here to rape - whilst we hope that 'educating' them to ignore the religion and upbringing that tells them women are chattel - works at some point.
> Wow. Just wow.



To be fair I don't think she supports rape.   I do think she is turning a blind eye in the battle of the leftist mind between skin colour and women's rights.    The same justifications that they use to ok Muslim behaviors are the same ones they trash Christians.   (Like the bakers)....  But that is another dynamic of gays.   Which ironically gays are hated and considered animals by Islam.     So it's a weird dynamic....  A lot of demons she is fighting right now.   

From what I can tell the typical leftist pecking order for causes goes .... 

Islam > Gays 
Islam > Women's rights 

Skin Colour trumps all.   

The greatest times for democrats is when they used skin colour over everything else (1960's) so they try and replicate that today.


----------



## Meathead

StLucieBengal said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish Coyote Ugly could be locked in a room (it would have to be an enormous room) with the 10 yr old rape victim  who can no longer sleep and who lives with daily panic attacks, and with all the other children and women who have been raped and sexually assaulted across Europe. Somehow, I don't think they'd be comforted with her utterly gross defence of the filthy animal perps, nor with her whitterings about bringing them here to rape - whilst we hope that 'educating' them to ignore the religion and upbringing that tells them women are chattel - works at some point.
> Wow. Just wow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair I don't think she supports rape.   I do think she is turning a blind eye in the battle of the leftist mind between skin colour and women's rights.    The same justifications that they use to ok Muslim behaviors are the same ones they trash Christians.   (Like the bakers)....  But that is another dynamic of gays.   Which ironically gays are hated and considered animals by Islam.     So it's a weird dynamic....  A lot of demons she is fighting right now.
> 
> From what I can tell the typical leftist pecking order for causes goes ....
> 
> Islam > Gays
> Islam > Women's rights
> 
> Skin Colour trumps all.
> 
> The greatest times for democrats is when they used skin colour over everything else (1960's) so they try and replicate that today.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say Coyote supports rape, but she is undoubtedly an apologist for those who do, provided they're Muslims.

Exaggerating on-campus rape because they're mostly white boys while trying to minimize rape by Muslims is the hypocrisy of the left at its worst!


----------



## StLucieBengal

Meathead said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish Coyote Ugly could be locked in a room (it would have to be an enormous room) with the 10 yr old rape victim  who can no longer sleep and who lives with daily panic attacks, and with all the other children and women who have been raped and sexually assaulted across Europe. Somehow, I don't think they'd be comforted with her utterly gross defence of the filthy animal perps, nor with her whitterings about bringing them here to rape - whilst we hope that 'educating' them to ignore the religion and upbringing that tells them women are chattel - works at some point.
> Wow. Just wow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair I don't think she supports rape.   I do think she is turning a blind eye in the battle of the leftist mind between skin colour and women's rights.    The same justifications that they use to ok Muslim behaviors are the same ones they trash Christians.   (Like the bakers)....  But that is another dynamic of gays.   Which ironically gays are hated and considered animals by Islam.     So it's a weird dynamic....  A lot of demons she is fighting right now.
> 
> From what I can tell the typical leftist pecking order for causes goes ....
> 
> Islam > Gays
> Islam > Women's rights
> 
> Skin Colour trumps all.
> 
> The greatest times for democrats is when they used skin colour over everything else (1960's) so they try and replicate that today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wouldn't say Coyote supports rape, but she is undoubtedly an apologist for those who do, provided they're Muslims.
> 
> Exaggerating on-campus rape because they're mostly white boys while trying to minimize rape by Muslims is the hypocrisy of the left at its worst!
Click to expand...



Yup it's obvious for them skin colour trumps all.


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote what is your fascination with Islam and these migrants?
> 
> It seems you desperately want to make every known excuse in the book for them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One.  I'm not making excuses.  Name one excuse I've given for rape, or any other violent behavior.  I want the truth.  What is the truth?  What are the facts when you strip emotional hype and fear?
> 
> Fear drives us to unspeakable things to our fellow people.
> 
> My fascination is less with Islam then it is with scapegoating and broadbrushing an entire group of people and right now, it's acceptable to scapegoat Muslims broadly and completely, with out regard to whether it's conspiracy theory, the actions of a few, or hype over fact.  Seems to be me any right thinking person should be concerned when a group gets scapegoated.  We don't tolerate it when it's Jews or Blacks do we?  How do our resident racists/anti-semites get treated?  Not with respect.  But when it comes to Muslims, it's the broad brush and if you question it, ask for facts, you are labeled.
> 
> I'll give an example.  Why do I press Dogma on the issue of a poll?  Because, in a thread on American Muslims, he wanted to show that American Muslims are just as violent, extremist, intolerant, etc as he views Muslims in other countries.  Previously he had used Pew, a well respected non-partisan source for views of Muslims around the world towards Sharia, apostacy, homosexuality and women's rights.  So did he use Pew in this thread?  No.  He chose a poll that who's methodology is roundly criticized and debunked, from a site widely considered way out there by many, and a hate site, who's results purported to show something like over 50% suppported religous violence and Sharia as law of the land, or something.  This completely contradicted Pew, which showed American Muslims are largely the same as other demographic groups in America in their opinions towards seperation of religion and state, violence, homosexuality, and women's rights.  So, Pew is "good enough" for worldwide opinion but suddenly not "good enough" for American Muslim opinion?  When a person deliberately chooses to use something from a disreputable site over something from a reputable site - I think it's reasonable to ask "why" and what are the motivations?
> 
> My "fascination" with migrants and refugees is because they are PEOPLE, living, breathing people who have gone through horrendous experiences in an attempt to escape what are often desperate situations.  It takes a particular desperation and courage to do that, and the death toll in those sea voyages and at the hands of traffickers is very high.  We tend to forget they are human beings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. This entire thread is about a conspiracy against Muslims.  This is an excuse to the media reports of them rapefugees.
Click to expand...


Conspiracy theories aren't backed by data or facts.  My thread's OP is backed by crime statistics over a period of time.  The same sort of crime statistics, I might add, that are perfectly acceptable under other circumstances.  The fact that you refer to refugees/migrants as whole as "rapefugees" pretty much supports my position.



> 2. On broad stroking a group of people....   If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck... It's a duck.
> 
> Muslims worldwide share the belief in oppression of women and children.   Not all rape away in praise to Allah.    But they do support wearing oppressive garmets.
> 
> This is my biggest issue with Islam.    Their constant oppression, which has no place in western society.   Which is why I would shut the borders to them.   Until they had a reformation to remove these beliefs and teachings .   My wife is Russian orthodox and wears a scarf in church but only wears it in church.   She doesn't wear it everywhere .... She still believes in God and isn't any less of an orthodox because of this ....  How is this any different than a Muslim?



There I disagree with you, because it assumes two things - that all Muslims adhere to the most conservative aspects of Islam, that they all believe in oppressing women, and that Islam is unchangeable.   Attitudes towards women vary according to the culture of the people who practice that faith.  For example - look at FGM.  It's most prevalent in N. Africa, and in the countries where it is still practiced, it is done by Christian, Animaist and Muslims alike.  Yet, in other Muslim majority countries it is unheard of.  There is nothing in Islam itself that demands it - it's a cultural legacy.

Opinions of Muslims towards the role of women around the world may lag behind those of western countries, but within Western countries, like the US, Muslim opinions are in line with that of other demographic groups.

Muslims and Islam: Key findings in the U.S. and around the world

*What do American Muslims believe?*

_Our 2011 survey of Muslim Americans found that roughly half of U.S. Muslims (48%) say their own religious leaders have not done enough to speak out against Islamic extremists.


Living in a religiously pluralistic society, Muslim Americans are more likely than Muslims in many other nations to have many non-Muslim friends. Only about half (48%) of U.S. Muslims say all or most of their close friends are also Muslims, compared with a global median of 95% in the 39 countries we surveyed.


Roughly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (69%) say religion is very important in their lives. Virtually all (96%) say they believe in God, nearly two-thirds (65%) report praying at least daily and nearly half (47%) say they attend religious services at least weekly. By all of these traditional measures, Muslims in the U.S. are roughly as religious as U.S. Christians, although they are less religious than Muslims in many other nations.


When it comes to political and social views, Muslims are far more likely to identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party (70%) than the Republican Party (11%) and to say they prefer a bigger government providing more services (68%) over a smaller government providing fewer services (21%). As of 2011, U.S. Muslims were somewhat split between those who said homosexuality should be accepted by society (39%) and those who said it should be discouraged (45%), although the group had grown considerably more accepting of homosexuality since a similar survey was conducted in 2007._​
Section 5: Political Opinions and Social Values
_Muslim Americans show strong support for allowing women to join the workforce. Nine-in-ten either completely (72%) or mostly agree (18%) that women should be able to work outside the home. Among the U.S. general public, almost all either completely (81%) or mostly (16%) agree with this. 

Attitudes among Muslim Americans are similar to attitudes among Muslims in Lebanon and Turkey. But support for women working outside the home is considerably smaller in many other Muslim nations. For example, in Egypt, only about six-in-ten say they either completely agree (23%) or mostly agree (39%) that women should be allowed to work outside the home. About four-in-ten (39%) disagree.

Nearly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (68%) say gender makes no difference in the quality of political leaders. Still, about a quarter (27%) say men make better political leaders. Very few (4%) say women make better leaders. There are only slight differences in views on this between men and women and among various age groups. Among the U.S. public, 72% say gender does not determine who will be the better political leader. About one-in-ten each say men (12%) or women (13%) make better lead

_​


> 3. How you treat other posters is of no concern to me in this discussion.   That is between you and them.     I am more concerned with the topic and not a side argument over past threads.
> 
> 4. So you would be willing to take on any people as long as they can make it here?
> 
> This type of belief is just not feasible in our society.    If we didn't have any social benefits then possibly....   But we  just can afford adding people from the 3rd world.    Not to mention the harm it would do our culture to be flooded with 3rd worlders.



No, I would not be willing to take on any people.  I would not take those convicted of violent crimes for example.  I'm not "open borders".  I think there should be a good vetting process for people from certain countries and we do need to have limits.  I don't think it's because of our social benefits system, since few tend to utilize them, and when they do it's not for long.  Most want to work.  

The question I have though, is that your argument - " the harm it would do our culture to be flooded with 3rd worlders" - is the same argument that has been applied to many other immigrant groups over successive waves of immigration: Irish, Chinese, East European Jews, Italians etc. and the sky never fell.  



> And it's not courageous for fighting aged men to flee the fight to go to the west.     Were you also cheering on the guy in titanic who got on the lifeboat ahead of women and children?    Was he courageous?



I don't think it is that black and white.  Many of those "fighting age men" are not - they're just men, and there is no breakdown in ages in the data.  There is also considerable differences in the different groups.  For migrants and refugees trying to make it to Europe, 53% are men, with no age breakdown.  

That  number includes all migrants.  However, the number of Syrian refugees overall, is dominated by women and children, most of whom are in the camps.

I don't consider it comparable to the life boat situation because I can see why men would go first.  The journey is tremendously dangerous, with a high mortality rate and an uncertain future.  The family is usually left in relative safety by comparison. While the conditions are bad in the refugee camps, at least they aren't being straffed by barrel bombs or sold as sex slaves by ISIS.  I would think it would be the men who would take the risks to try and establish themselves and bring their families over.

I've heard the argument before that these men are cowardly and should stay and fight.  My response is this - who are we to judge them when we do not walk in their shoes?  Listening to interviews with refugees from the Syrian conflict - what they and their families have been through is horrendous.  It's a war with no clear sides and horrible atrocities perpetrated on civilians.   It's not a new argument.  In fact, the same arguments were made in taking Jewish refugees during the holocaust.  Some countries that were willing to take them, would only take the children.  So desperate parents sent their children to try and save them.  And of course, the parents died.  In a conflict like Syria - I wouldn't judge the men.  That's different than the migrants though, but even then - they are fleeing different things so you can't just broadly judge it, it's case by case.




> As for being human beings....    If they are brought up to believe In oppression and rape of women and children....  Just how human are they?    Sounds more like how animals believe....



Just how human are they?  Very.

You assume they are all rapists and abusers regardless of background, education, culture and individuality.  I disagree with that assumption.


----------



## Coyote

Meathead said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish Coyote Ugly could be locked in a room (it would have to be an enormous room) with the 10 yr old rape victim  who can no longer sleep and who lives with daily panic attacks, and with all the other children and women who have been raped and sexually assaulted across Europe. Somehow, I don't think they'd be comforted with her utterly gross defence of the filthy animal perps, nor with her whitterings about bringing them here to rape - whilst we hope that 'educating' them to ignore the religion and upbringing that tells them women are chattel - works at some point.
> Wow. Just wow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair I don't think she supports rape.   I do think she is turning a blind eye in the battle of the leftist mind between skin colour and women's rights.    The same justifications that they use to ok Muslim behaviors are the same ones they trash Christians.   (Like the bakers)....  But that is another dynamic of gays.   Which ironically gays are hated and considered animals by Islam.     So it's a weird dynamic....  A lot of demons she is fighting right now.
> 
> From what I can tell the typical leftist pecking order for causes goes ....
> 
> Islam > Gays
> Islam > Women's rights
> 
> Skin Colour trumps all.
> 
> The greatest times for democrats is when they used skin colour over everything else (1960's) so they try and replicate that today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wouldn't say Coyote supports rape, but she is undoubtedly an apologist for those who do, provided they're Muslims.
> 
> Exaggerating on-campus rape because they're mostly white boys while trying to minimize rape by Muslims is the hypocrisy of the left at its worst!
Click to expand...



Where have I ever exaggerated on-campus rape?


----------



## Meathead

Coyote said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish Coyote Ugly could be locked in a room (it would have to be an enormous room) with the 10 yr old rape victim  who can no longer sleep and who lives with daily panic attacks, and with all the other children and women who have been raped and sexually assaulted across Europe. Somehow, I don't think they'd be comforted with her utterly gross defence of the filthy animal perps, nor with her whitterings about bringing them here to rape - whilst we hope that 'educating' them to ignore the religion and upbringing that tells them women are chattel - works at some point.
> Wow. Just wow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair I don't think she supports rape.   I do think she is turning a blind eye in the battle of the leftist mind between skin colour and women's rights.    The same justifications that they use to ok Muslim behaviors are the same ones they trash Christians.   (Like the bakers)....  But that is another dynamic of gays.   Which ironically gays are hated and considered animals by Islam.     So it's a weird dynamic....  A lot of demons she is fighting right now.
> 
> From what I can tell the typical leftist pecking order for causes goes ....
> 
> Islam > Gays
> Islam > Women's rights
> 
> Skin Colour trumps all.
> 
> The greatest times for democrats is when they used skin colour over everything else (1960's) so they try and replicate that today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wouldn't say Coyote supports rape, but she is undoubtedly an apologist for those who do, provided they're Muslims.
> 
> Exaggerating on-campus rape because they're mostly white boys while trying to minimize rape by Muslims is the hypocrisy of the left at its worst!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Where have I ever exaggerated on-campus rape?
Click to expand...

I've little doubt you have, but please stop being silly by asking me where. I would have to go through more posts than the Beast's deleted emails. 

Regardless, the left exaggerates on-campus rape and minimizes that of Muslims because it fits into their agenda.

Enough sleaze, OK?


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish Coyote Ugly could be locked in a room (it would have to be an enormous room) with the 10 yr old rape victim  who can no longer sleep and who lives with daily panic attacks, and with all the other children and women who have been raped and sexually assaulted across Europe. Somehow, I don't think they'd be comforted with her utterly gross defence of the filthy animal perps, nor with her whitterings about bringing them here to rape - whilst we hope that 'educating' them to ignore the religion and upbringing that tells them women are chattel - works at some point.
> Wow. Just wow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair I don't think she supports rape.   I do think she is turning a blind eye in the battle of the leftist mind between skin colour and women's rights.    The same justifications that they use to ok Muslim behaviors are the same ones they trash Christians.   (Like the bakers)....  But that is another dynamic of gays.   Which ironically gays are hated and considered animals by Islam.     So it's a weird dynamic....  A lot of demons she is fighting right now.
> 
> From what I can tell the typical leftist pecking order for causes goes ....
> 
> Islam > Gays
> Islam > Women's rights
> 
> Skin Colour trumps all.
> 
> The greatest times for democrats is when they used skin colour over everything else (1960's) so they try and replicate that today.
Click to expand...



The dynamic is not that complicated.

I support basic rights, equality and freedoms for all regardless of gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, race, or religion until they have individually committed a crime or behave in such a way that strips them of those rights.

I support a secular government and our constitution and total separation of church and state.

That means if a Christian refuses to rent a hotel room to a gay couple or a Muslim refuses to rent a hotel room to a gay couple, I feel the same.  They're both wrong imo.  Religious rights do not mean you can discriminate against classes of people.  At this point, in the US, there haven't been many anti-gay bakers who are Muslim who have created a stir, because they represent a tiny portion of the population.

Homophobia is something I oppose, but I'm not going to and have not broad brushed all Christians for the actions of a few, and neither will I do that with all Muslims.  Polls of American Muslims indicate that attitudes towards acceptance of homosexuality are roughly in line with that of other US religious groups and in fact, there is a higher acceptance rate among Muslims then Evangelicals.  Among all groups, the trend is towards increasing acceptance.

Defending the right of all people to worship as they wish within the constraints of our laws should not be that controversial if you support laws that protect people from harassment, violence, discrimination based on their sexual identity - something which many people continue to fight against still.  Supporting those rights doesn't mean supporting religiously based discrimmination or hatred.


----------



## Coyote

Meathead said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish Coyote Ugly could be locked in a room (it would have to be an enormous room) with the 10 yr old rape victim  who can no longer sleep and who lives with daily panic attacks, and with all the other children and women who have been raped and sexually assaulted across Europe. Somehow, I don't think they'd be comforted with her utterly gross defence of the filthy animal perps, nor with her whitterings about bringing them here to rape - whilst we hope that 'educating' them to ignore the religion and upbringing that tells them women are chattel - works at some point.
> Wow. Just wow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair I don't think she supports rape.   I do think she is turning a blind eye in the battle of the leftist mind between skin colour and women's rights.    The same justifications that they use to ok Muslim behaviors are the same ones they trash Christians.   (Like the bakers)....  But that is another dynamic of gays.   Which ironically gays are hated and considered animals by Islam.     So it's a weird dynamic....  A lot of demons she is fighting right now.
> 
> From what I can tell the typical leftist pecking order for causes goes ....
> 
> Islam > Gays
> Islam > Women's rights
> 
> Skin Colour trumps all.
> 
> The greatest times for democrats is when they used skin colour over everything else (1960's) so they try and replicate that today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wouldn't say Coyote supports rape, but she is undoubtedly an apologist for those who do, provided they're Muslims.
> 
> Exaggerating on-campus rape because they're mostly white boys while trying to minimize rape by Muslims is the hypocrisy of the left at its worst!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Where have I ever exaggerated on-campus rape?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've little doubt you have, but please stop being silly by asking me where. I would have to go through more posts than the Beast's deleted emails.
> 
> Regardless, the left exaggerates on-campus rape and minimizes that of Muslims because it fits into their agenda.
> 
> Enough sleaze, OK?
Click to expand...



You're a liar.  I haven't.  And that is because I recognize the campus rape issue is very lopsided and frankly, unjust to the boys in the way it's applied by some institutions not to mention the scandals like Tawana Brawley where it was outright faked and their lives were basically ruined because of it.  

Yes.  Please stop your sleaze.


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ridgerunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like your collection of naked Neville Chamberlain pics?
> 
> 
> 
> *I just love these threads started by rape apologists.
> They could give a damn less about the victims.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh please, you know damn well you guys don't give a damn about rape, or other abusive crimes against women and girls such as child marriages UNLESS Muslims are involved
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to test than theory and post a thread about a story of a pedo rapist and see what happens .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a list of threads involving abusive practices to women, rape, child rape, etc.  Feel free to join in.  Most didn't get much attention.
> 
> Ex-Employee Leaks Details About Refugee Abuse On Nauru
> Child Marriages
> Rape
> Worst Places for Women
> For India's Widows, A Riot Of Color, An Act Of Liberation
> Congolese Doctor Denis Mukwege Receives Sakharov Prize
> In Congo, Trapped In Violence And Forgotten
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I will check these as I go.    But if you are looking for sympathy for anyone who chooses not to live right then you are barking up the wrong tree.
> 
> I would shut borders from any place that oppresses women and/or children.       I think we need less of these people and more of the people who know how to live right.
> 
> My sister in law lives in Belarus and she would be a much better addition to any western country than anyone from the Middle East outside of Israel.   But she refuses to enter any country by hook or crook.
> 
> If you want to discuss immigration policy then I would take a page from the US immigration 1924 and limit each country to 3% yearly of the foreign born population of legal citizens.       I would block the Middle East and Central America.   One being at war with Islamic terrorism and Central America for the purpose to allow us to work through all the current illegals in this country.   Given most are from Central America.    A 10 year hold on immigration from these parts should allow us to catch up and tackle the current illegals.    After we round up any of them who have had a felony and deported them immediately.
> 
> Immigration should be a slow and steady drip so they can assimilate to our nation and our cultural beliefs since they are moving to be part of our culture.
> 
> I love the Australian point system for immigration.   If you are not familiar then I encourage you to familiarize yourself.
Click to expand...



In light of your feelings about the oppression of women, you might want to rethink whether you want to bring in people from Belarus...

Empowering Belarusian Women to Combat Domestic Violence
_Every fourth woman in Belarus has been physically abused by her partner. Just in the last three months, 24 Belarusians have died as a result of domestic violence, a 41% increase from last year.


For decades, impunity for such abuse has persisted in Belarus, a country with a traditional view on a women’s place in society and a troublesome human rights record for both men and women. Domestic violence is finally becoming a public issue and preventative and punitive measures are being taken...

...A typical Belarusian domestic bully is a man in his thirties or forties, intoxicated and unemployed, according to Oleg Karazei, Head of the Prevention Office of the Central Department for Law Enforcement and Prevention of the Belarusian Interior Ministry. Thus, a high level of alcohol consumption, economic problems, and the lower status of women may contribute to the high prevalence of domestic violence in Belarus._

_*The Role of Culture and Gender Roles*


Most important, the prevalence of domestic violence correlates with the status of women and cultural norms regarding gender roles. On the one hand, the law treats women and men in Belarus equally. The country has acceded to all major relevant international conventions related to the rights of women, including the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women (Women’s Convention) and  its Optional Protocol.


On the other hand, discrimination against women on the job market and the so-called “glass ceiling” remain prevalent. Patriarchal notions of a woman's role in the family pervade the social and political sphere. Belarusian women are largely responsible for child upbringing, and President Lukashenka himself views women primarily as “keepers of hearth and home". For example, in 2010 he said, "It is undeniable that the Lord has ordained a woman to be a mother. Regardless of a woman's career, she has to care for her children. I want our women to give birth to at least three children." 


Gender stereotypes make violence easier to justify and can prevent women from reporting abuse. Cultural norms play a large role in the way women choose to respond to violence. Women in Belarus, as well as in other post-Soviet states, are expected "not to wash their dirty laundry in public"._​


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Talk about Alinski tactics ...
> 
> So, debunking false claims of an "epidemic" or "rape jihad" is now "defending rape".
> 
> That's quite stretch.
> 
> Here is one:  Child Marriages  Islam as practiced in UAE/Kuwait/SA allows men to have sex by temporarily marrying women, and then dumping them, it's not considered adultry, and allows them to essentially rape these young girls and dump them when they get pregnant.  This also fuels the human trafficking problem there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you claim not to defend rape, then turn around and defend it.
> 
> When you deny that women brutalized by your allies are even victims, that is some disgusting "blame the victim" bullshit.
> 
> When the violent and evil Warlord Muhammad was charging across the Arabian peninsula, the thugs who were his soldiers wanted to know what was in it for them? Muhammad granted them the right to rape and pillage as reward. "Temporary marriage" is how the evil fuck justified rape by his goons. A 15 minute "marriage"  meant that the rapist/Muslim was not committing adultery under Sharia.
> 
> Rape is a foundational part of Islam, granted by the filthy "prophet" himself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Strike out rational discussion with you then.  Using your rather distorted logic, I can only assume your concern with rape and child abuse starts and ends with Islam.
> 
> Thank you for our input.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I will leave you to figure out which rules for radical tactic you just used in that post.
> 
> Will give you your due if you can correctly acknowledge which rule you used in that post.
> 
> _
> *Saul Alinsky’s 12 Rules for Radicals*
> 
> * RULE 1: “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.” Power is derived from 2 main sources – money and people. “Have-Nots” must build power from flesh and blood. (These are two things of which there is a plentiful supply. Government and corporations always have a difficult time appealing to people, and usually do so almost exclusively with economic arguments.)
> 
> * RULE 2: “Never go outside the expertise of your people.” It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone. (Organizations under attack wonder why radicals don’t address the “real” issues. This is why. They avoid things with which they have no knowledge.)
> 
> * RULE 3: “Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.” Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)
> 
> * RULE 4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.” If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. (This is a serious rule. The besieged entity’s very credibility and reputation is at stake, because if activists catch it lying or not living up to its commitments, they can continue to chip away at the damage.)
> 
> * RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.)
> 
> * RULE 6: “A good tactic is one your people enjoy.” They’ll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They’re doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones. (Radical activists, in this sense, are no different that any other human being. We all avoid “un-fun” activities, and but we revel at and enjoy the ones that work and bring results.)
> 
> * RULE 7: “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.” Don’t become old news. (Even radical activists get bored. So to keep them excited and involved, organizers are constantly coming up with new tactics.)
> 
> * RULE 8: “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.” Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new. (Attack, attack, attack from all sides, never giving the reeling organization a chance to rest, regroup, recover and re-strategize.)
> 
> * RULE 9: “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.” Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist. (Perception is reality. Large organizations always prepare a worst-case scenario, something that may be furthest from the activists’ minds. The upshot is that the organization will expend enormous time and energy, creating in its own collective mind the direst of conclusions. The possibilities can easily poison the mind and result in demoralization.)
> 
> * RULE 10: “If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.” Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog. (Unions used this tactic. Peaceful [albeit loud] demonstrations during the heyday of unions in the early to mid-20th Century incurred management’s wrath, often in the form of violence that eventually brought public sympathy to their side.)
> 
> * RULE 11: “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.” Never let the enemy score points because you’re caught without a solution to the problem. (Old saw: If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. Activist organizations have an agenda, and their strategy is to hold a place at the table, to be given a forum to wield their power. So, they have to have a compromise solution.)
> 
> * RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)_
Click to expand...


Which one did the post I responded to violate or is this the usual double standard?


----------



## Meathead

Coyote said:


> You're a liar.  I haven't.  And that is because I recognize the campus rape issue is very lopsided and frankly, unjust to the boys in the way it's applied by some institutions not to mention the scandals like Tawana Brawley where it was outright faked and their lives were basically ruined because of it.
> 
> Yes.  Please stop your sleaze.


Stop your histrionics and tell me what I've lied about. Stop with the run-on sentences and the sleaze too. Thank you.


----------



## Tilly

Meathead said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're a liar.  I haven't.  And that is because I recognize the campus rape issue is very lopsided and frankly, unjust to the boys in the way it's applied by some institutions not to mention the scandals like Tawana Brawley where it was outright faked and their lives were basically ruined because of it.
> 
> Yes.  Please stop your sleaze.
> 
> 
> 
> Stop your histrionics and tell me what I've lied about. Stop with the run-on sentences and the sleaze too. Thank you.
Click to expand...

It never stops, Meathead, never!


----------



## Meathead

Tilly said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're a liar.  I haven't.  And that is because I recognize the campus rape issue is very lopsided and frankly, unjust to the boys in the way it's applied by some institutions not to mention the scandals like Tawana Brawley where it was outright faked and their lives were basically ruined because of it.
> 
> Yes.  Please stop your sleaze.
> 
> 
> 
> Stop your histrionics and tell me what I've lied about. Stop with the run-on sentences and the sleaze too. Thank you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It never stops, Meathead, never!
Click to expand...

I am not that familiar with her, but from what I can discern I gather your are right.


----------



## Coyote

Meathead said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're a liar.  I haven't.  And that is because I recognize the campus rape issue is very lopsided and frankly, unjust to the boys in the way it's applied by some institutions not to mention the scandals like Tawana Brawley where it was outright faked and their lives were basically ruined because of it.
> 
> Yes.  Please stop your sleaze.
> 
> 
> 
> Stop your histrionics and tell me what I've lied about. Stop with the run-on sentences and the sleaze too. Thank you.
Click to expand...



Please. Enough with your sleaze.  You lied about my position on campus rape, a behavior you and Tilly have in common it seems.

If you can't be honest, then just say so and I'll stop conversing with you.


----------



## Meathead

Coyote said:


> Please. Enough with your sleaze.  You lied about my position on campus rape, a behavior you and Tilly have in common it seems.
> 
> If you can't be honest, then just say so and I'll stop conversing with you.


I said that I've little doubt that you exaggerate campus rape and I know you mitigate that of Muslims. The former is because you're a dogmatic dingbat, and the latter goes to your OP in this thread.

Please feel free to stop conversing with me at any time. That, of course, does not mean I will not point out your sleaze and hypocrisy at any time I see fit.

Do we understand each other?


----------



## Tommy Tainant

There is a lot of gibberish talked about the role of women in Islam. It really isnt as straightforward as the frothers would make out.

*Afghanistan[edit]*

*Miss Kubra Nurzai*
First female minister of Afghanistan. The third Afghan Constitution (in 1964 under King Zahir Shah) gave women the right to vote and enter parliament as elected candidates for the first time. As a result, in elections the following year three women were elected as members of the parliament and two appointed as members of the senate. Kubra Nurzai was appointed Minister of Public Health in 1965 and re-appointed in 1967.[12]


*Massouda Jalal*
After graduating medical school in Kabul in 1988, she practiced as a physician until 1999 when the rule of the Taliban made this impossible. She began working for the women-led UN World Food Progamme (WFP) in 1999. After the Taliban was removed from power in 2002 she was one of 200 women who participated in the loya jirga. She ran for president in 2002, becoming the first woman to run for this position in Afghanistan. She won 171 votes (the second most ballots received) in the 2002 presidential election against Karzai.[13] She lost the election to Hamid Karzai but served within his cabinet as the Women's Affairs Minister from 2004-2006. Jalal was later nominated to study in Washington, DC at the Center for Development and Population Activities (CEDPA), which teaches women how to advance their leadership roles.[13]


*Azra Jafari*
One of 200 women who participated in the loya jirga after the fall of the Taliban in 2002. She is the first female mayor in Afghanistan. She is the current mayor of Nili, a town inDaykundi Province of Afghanistan.


*Fawzia Koofi*
In 2014 she became a candidate for President of Afghanistan after being elected as the Vice President of the National Assembly of Afghanistan in 2005. As Vice President she became the first female Second Deputy Speaker of Parliament.


*Sima Samar*
She served as the Afghanistan Ministry of Women's Affairs from 2001-2003.


*Frozan Fana*
Ran in the Afghan Presidential Election of 2009.


*Shahla Atta*
Ran in the Afghan Presidential Election of 2009.

*Azerbaijan[edit]*

*Lala Shevket*
She is a Professor and Doctor of medicine. She became the first female ambassador in Azerbaijan in 1993. She served as the Secretary of State in Azerbaijan from 1993-1994. She chose to resign from this position because of her dissatisfaction with corruption within the government. She founded the Azerbaijan Liberal Party in 1995 and has conducted Presidential runs as the head of this party.[14]

*Bahrain[edit]*

*Lateefa Al Gaood*
First female elected to the Council of Representatives of Bahrain in 2006 and is the only female to ever have been a council member.


*Nada Haffadh*
First ever female cabinet minister when she was appointed as the Minister of Health in 2004. She also served within the upper house of parliament in the Consultative Council in 2007.

*Bangladesh[edit]*
As the third most populous Muslim-majority country, Bangladesh has been ruled, as of 2016, for the last 25 years by female Prime Ministers[15] by electing Khaleda Zia[16] andSheikh Hasina as prime ministers.

*Sheikh Hasina*
Prime Minister of Bangladesh from 1996-2001 and 2009–Present. She is a member of the Council of Women World Leaders.

*Khaleda Zia*
Prime Minister of Bangladesh from 1991-1996 and 2001-2006. When elected in 1991 she became the first female Prime Minister of Bangladesh and the second female leader in the Muslim world to be a leader of a democratic government.[17] She is also the chairperson and leader of the Bangladesh Nationalist Party and has been ranked by _Forbes_ three times as the 100 Most Powerful Women in the World. [17][18][19]

*Egypt[edit]*
Nearly one-third of the Parliament of Egypt- the fifth most populous Muslim majority nation- also consists of women.[20]

*Rawya Ateya*
In 1956 she became the first woman to be commissioned as an officer in the Liberation Army of Egypt. She is considered to be a pioneer for female leaders in Muslim-majority countries. She was the first female Parliamentarian in the Arab world when in 1957 she served in the Parliament of Egypt.[21][22]

*Indonesia[edit]*
The most populous Muslim-majority country.

*Megawati Sukarnoputri*
She served as president of Indonesia from 2001-2004, becoming the first female president of Indonesia and the fourth female to lead a Muslim-majority nation.[23]

*Jordan[edit]*
*Toujan al-Faisal*
She became Jordan's first female member of Parliament when elected in 1993. She faced lots of backlash as a female in this position, including arrests and mistreatment while imprisoned, causing a global outcry and the assistance of Amnesty International.

*Kosovo[edit]*
*Atifete Jahjaga*
In the Muslim majority territory of Kosovo, President Atifete Jahjaga was unanimously elected by the Assembly of Kosovo on April 7, 2011.[24]

*Kyrgyzstan[edit]*
*Roza Otunbayeva*
As an atheist,[25] she was sworn in as President of the Muslim-majority Kyrgyzstan on 3 July 2010, after acting as interim leader following the Tulip Revolution.

*Pakistan[edit]*
The second most populous Muslim-majority country.



*Benazir Bhutto*
In 1982 she became the first female in Pakistan to lead a political party, the Pakistan People's Party. Her father, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, founded thePakistan People's Party in 1968.[26] She was elected twice as the Prime Minister [27] of Pakistan. Her first election to Prime Minister in 1988 made her the first woman to lead a Muslim-majority country. She served in this position from 1988-1990 and from 1992-1996. She was assassinated as a candidate in the 2008 election for Prime Minister.

*Senegal[edit]*
*Mame Madior Boye*
She was elected as the Minister of Justice in 2000 and was Prime Minister from 2001 to 2002. She is the first female in Senegal to hold this position.

*Turkey[edit]*
*Tansu Çiller*
Became Prime Minister of Turkey in 1993. Four Muslim countries have been or are currently led by women because of successions after deceased fathers, husbands, etc. Ciller, however, won her position as Prime Minister entirely on her own.[28] Ciller attended Robert College and later received her Master’s and Ph.D. Ciller returned to Turkey and taught economics at Bosphorus University after her husband was offered a good job. She entered politics in 1990 by joining the True Path Party (which she is now the president of) under Suleyman Demirel. Ciller quickly became assistant of the party, and then entered the 1991 election where she won and received the responsibility for ministry of economy in the government. President Turgu Ozal died in 1993, so Demirel took his position as president. Ciller saw her chance and took it, for she won the position as prime minister in June 1993. Tansu Ciller is one of Turkey’s most powerful politicians and is said to be the key to forming the next government. Ciller’s supporters favor her modernization/westernization ideas. Despite her followers, Ciller also had many people against her reforms. Ciller was forced to leave the government after she made some unpopular actions as prime minister. Her questionable decisions led to three different parliamentary investigations on her, so Ciller decided to leave office in 1995. Despite her mistakes, Ciller still remains very powerful today.[29]
All of these oppressed women have managed to make it to the top in savage third world shitholes. It doesnt really tally with a narrative of downtrodden submissive housewives who cant go out of the house without permission.

I do recognise that it isnt the full story but neither is the broad brush approach to 1.6bn people.

Meanwhile in the Land of the Free a woman who is standing for President is described as all sorts of disgusting things. Her daughter is castigated for the crime of being "fucking ugly" as well.

Another candidates wife is used as some sort of trophy to beat up a rivals wife who isnt a supermodel.

A tv reporter who has the cheek to do her job is thought to be having a period.

Women earn less than men and have the pleasure of men deciding what is best for their bodies.       

Male rapists in this country are set free if a conviction will damage their career prospects and all in all its a lot more nuanced than the idiocracy would have you believe.


----------



## Meathead

Tommy Tainant said:


> There is a lot of gibberish talked about the role of women in Islam. It really isnt as straightforward as the frothers would make out.
> 
> *Afghanistan[edit]*
> 
> *Miss Kubra Nurzai*
> First female minister of Afghanistan. The third Afghan Constitution (in 1964 under King Zahir Shah) gave women the right to vote and enter parliament as elected candidates for the first time. As a result, in elections the following year three women were elected as members of the parliament and two appointed as members of the senate. Kubra Nurzai was appointed Minister of Public Health in 1965 and re-appointed in 1967.[12]
> 
> 
> *Massouda Jalal*
> After graduating medical school in Kabul in 1988, she practiced as a physician until 1999 when the rule of the Taliban made this impossible. She began working for the women-led UN World Food Progamme (WFP) in 1999. After the Taliban was removed from power in 2002 she was one of 200 women who participated in the loya jirga. She ran for president in 2002, becoming the first woman to run for this position in Afghanistan. She won 171 votes (the second most ballots received) in the 2002 presidential election against Karzai.[13] She lost the election to Hamid Karzai but served within his cabinet as the Women's Affairs Minister from 2004-2006. Jalal was later nominated to study in Washington, DC at the Center for Development and Population Activities (CEDPA), which teaches women how to advance their leadership roles.[13]
> 
> 
> *Azra Jafari*
> One of 200 women who participated in the loya jirga after the fall of the Taliban in 2002. She is the first female mayor in Afghanistan. She is the current mayor of Nili, a town inDaykundi Province of Afghanistan.
> 
> 
> *Fawzia Koofi*
> In 2014 she became a candidate for President of Afghanistan after being elected as the Vice President of the National Assembly of Afghanistan in 2005. As Vice President she became the first female Second Deputy Speaker of Parliament.
> 
> 
> *Sima Samar*
> She served as the Afghanistan Ministry of Women's Affairs from 2001-2003.
> 
> 
> *Frozan Fana*
> Ran in the Afghan Presidential Election of 2009.
> 
> 
> *Shahla Atta*
> Ran in the Afghan Presidential Election of 2009.
> 
> *Azerbaijan[edit]*
> 
> *Lala Shevket*
> She is a Professor and Doctor of medicine. She became the first female ambassador in Azerbaijan in 1993. She served as the Secretary of State in Azerbaijan from 1993-1994. She chose to resign from this position because of her dissatisfaction with corruption within the government. She founded the Azerbaijan Liberal Party in 1995 and has conducted Presidential runs as the head of this party.[14]
> 
> *Bahrain[edit]*
> 
> *Lateefa Al Gaood*
> First female elected to the Council of Representatives of Bahrain in 2006 and is the only female to ever have been a council member.
> 
> 
> *Nada Haffadh*
> First ever female cabinet minister when she was appointed as the Minister of Health in 2004. She also served within the upper house of parliament in the Consultative Council in 2007.
> 
> *Bangladesh[edit]*
> As the third most populous Muslim-majority country, Bangladesh has been ruled, as of 2016, for the last 25 years by female Prime Ministers[15] by electing Khaleda Zia[16] andSheikh Hasina as prime ministers.
> *Sheikh Hasina*
> Prime Minister of Bangladesh from 1996-2001 and 2009–Present. She is a member of the Council of Women World Leaders.
> *Khaleda Zia*
> Prime Minister of Bangladesh from 1991-1996 and 2001-2006. When elected in 1991 she became the first female Prime Minister of Bangladesh and the second female leader in the Muslim world to be a leader of a democratic government.[17] She is also the chairperson and leader of the Bangladesh Nationalist Party and has been ranked by _Forbes_ three times as the 100 Most Powerful Women in the World. [17][18][19]
> 
> *Egypt[edit]*
> Nearly one-third of the Parliament of Egypt- the fifth most populous Muslim majority nation- also consists of women.[20]
> *Rawya Ateya*
> In 1956 she became the first woman to be commissioned as an officer in the Liberation Army of Egypt. She is considered to be a pioneer for female leaders in Muslim-majority countries. She was the first female Parliamentarian in the Arab world when in 1957 she served in the Parliament of Egypt.[21][22]
> 
> *Indonesia[edit]*
> The most populous Muslim-majority country.
> *Megawati Sukarnoputri*
> She served as president of Indonesia from 2001-2004, becoming the first female president of Indonesia and the fourth female to lead a Muslim-majority nation.[23]
> 
> *Jordan[edit]*
> *Toujan al-Faisal*
> She became Jordan's first female member of Parliament when elected in 1993. She faced lots of backlash as a female in this position, including arrests and mistreatment while imprisoned, causing a global outcry and the assistance of Amnesty International.
> 
> *Kosovo[edit]*
> *Atifete Jahjaga*
> In the Muslim majority territory of Kosovo, President Atifete Jahjaga was unanimously elected by the Assembly of Kosovo on April 7, 2011.[24]
> 
> *Kyrgyzstan[edit]*
> *Roza Otunbayeva*
> As an atheist,[25] she was sworn in as President of the Muslim-majority Kyrgyzstan on 3 July 2010, after acting as interim leader following the Tulip Revolution.
> 
> *Pakistan[edit]*
> The second most populous Muslim-majority country.
> 
> 
> 
> *Benazir Bhutto*
> In 1982 she became the first female in Pakistan to lead a political party, the Pakistan People's Party. Her father, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, founded thePakistan People's Party in 1968.[26] She was elected twice as the Prime Minister [27] of Pakistan. Her first election to Prime Minister in 1988 made her the first woman to lead a Muslim-majority country. She served in this position from 1988-1990 and from 1992-1996. She was assassinated as a candidate in the 2008 election for Prime Minister.
> 
> *Senegal[edit]*
> *Mame Madior Boye*
> She was elected as the Minister of Justice in 2000 and was Prime Minister from 2001 to 2002. She is the first female in Senegal to hold this position.
> 
> *Turkey[edit]*
> *Tansu Çiller*
> Became Prime Minister of Turkey in 1993. Four Muslim countries have been or are currently led by women because of successions after deceased fathers, husbands, etc. Ciller, however, won her position as Prime Minister entirely on her own.[28] Ciller attended Robert College and later received her Master’s and Ph.D. Ciller returned to Turkey and taught economics at Bosphorus University after her husband was offered a good job. She entered politics in 1990 by joining the True Path Party (which she is now the president of) under Suleyman Demirel. Ciller quickly became assistant of the party, and then entered the 1991 election where she won and received the responsibility for ministry of economy in the government. President Turgu Ozal died in 1993, so Demirel took his position as president. Ciller saw her chance and took it, for she won the position as prime minister in June 1993. Tansu Ciller is one of Turkey’s most powerful politicians and is said to be the key to forming the next government. Ciller’s supporters favor her modernization/westernization ideas. Despite her followers, Ciller also had many people against her reforms. Ciller was forced to leave the government after she made some unpopular actions as prime minister. Her questionable decisions led to three different parliamentary investigations on her, so Ciller decided to leave office in 1995. Despite her mistakes, Ciller still remains very powerful today.[29]
> All of these oppressed women have managed to make it to the top in savage third world shitholes. It doesnt really tally with a narrative of downtrodden submissive housewives who cant go out of the house without permission.
> 
> I do recognise that it isnt the full story but neither is the broad brush approach to 1.6bn people.
> 
> Meanwhile in the Land of the Free a woman who is standing for President is described as all sorts of disgusting things. Her daughter is castigated for the crime of being "fucking ugly" as well.
> 
> Another candidates wife is used as some sort of trophy to beat up a rivals wife who isnt a supermodel.
> 
> A tv reporter who has the cheek to do her job is thought to be having a period.
> 
> Women earn less than men and have the pleasure of men deciding what is best for their bodies.
> 
> Male rapists in this country are set free if a conviction will damage their career prospects and all in all its a lot more nuanced than the idiocracy would have you believe.


There are probably more gay men in your village than the "successful" Muslim women from all the shit holes in the world:


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of posts where you defend rape....
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly! Ha ha ha. You can't expect it to be universal that men know they shouldn't rape and sexually assault women and children???
> An excellent argument for not letting any of them in!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Or teaching them.  Of course, that is assuming you are correct in thinking the majority of them believe it's ok to assault women and children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The majority of them believe it's ok to oppress women and children.
> 
> They may not all rape away but they all do spread around the oppression.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How do you know the "majority" of the world's 1.6 billion muslims believe it's ok to oppress women and children, or assault them?  What do you base this on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well we can start just by the amount who force/insist women to wear the hijab/burqa/or any head scarf.     They can chalk it up to religious this and that but you can't force anyone to wear certain clothes in the western world.
> 
> As for the Muslims who don't require this to be worn that's a good start.    These are the types of reformations that need to happen.... This has happened in just about every other religion.   They have evolved with western culture.
Click to expand...


How many are "forced"?

How many choose?

How do you determine this?

Is this any different than orthodox Jewish women who are "forced" to wear a head covering when out in public?  Or do they choose to?

Why is it, around the world, there are many Muslim women who don't wear any head covering?

How do you know it's forced?


----------



## Coyote

Meathead said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please. Enough with your sleaze.  You lied about my position on campus rape, a behavior you and Tilly have in common it seems.
> 
> If you can't be honest, then just say so and I'll stop conversing with you.
> 
> 
> 
> I said that I've little doubt that you exaggerate campus rape and I know you mitigate that of Muslims. The former is because you're a dogmatic dingbat, and the latter goes to your OP in this thread.
> 
> Please feel free to stop conversing with me at any time. That, of course, does not mean I will not point out your sleaze and hypocrisy at any time I see fit.
> 
> Do we understand each other?
Click to expand...



Oh.  You now have "little doubt".

You're a liar and you don't even have the integrity to admit your claim was baseless.

Dismissed.


----------



## Tommy Tainant

Tommy Tainant said:


> There is a lot of gibberish talked about the role of women in Islam. It really isnt as straightforward as the frothers would make out.
> 
> *Afghanistan[edit]*
> 
> *Miss Kubra Nurzai*
> First female minister of Afghanistan. The third Afghan Constitution (in 1964 under King Zahir Shah) gave women the right to vote and enter parliament as elected candidates for the first time. As a result, in elections the following year three women were elected as members of the parliament and two appointed as members of the senate. Kubra Nurzai was appointed Minister of Public Health in 1965 and re-appointed in 1967.[12]
> 
> 
> *Massouda Jalal*
> After graduating medical school in Kabul in 1988, she practiced as a physician until 1999 when the rule of the Taliban made this impossible. She began working for the women-led UN World Food Progamme (WFP) in 1999. After the Taliban was removed from power in 2002 she was one of 200 women who participated in the loya jirga. She ran for president in 2002, becoming the first woman to run for this position in Afghanistan. She won 171 votes (the second most ballots received) in the 2002 presidential election against Karzai.[13] She lost the election to Hamid Karzai but served within his cabinet as the Women's Affairs Minister from 2004-2006. Jalal was later nominated to study in Washington, DC at the Center for Development and Population Activities (CEDPA), which teaches women how to advance their leadership roles.[13]
> 
> 
> *Azra Jafari*
> One of 200 women who participated in the loya jirga after the fall of the Taliban in 2002. She is the first female mayor in Afghanistan. She is the current mayor of Nili, a town inDaykundi Province of Afghanistan.
> 
> 
> *Fawzia Koofi*
> In 2014 she became a candidate for President of Afghanistan after being elected as the Vice President of the National Assembly of Afghanistan in 2005. As Vice President she became the first female Second Deputy Speaker of Parliament.
> 
> 
> *Sima Samar*
> She served as the Afghanistan Ministry of Women's Affairs from 2001-2003.
> 
> 
> *Frozan Fana*
> Ran in the Afghan Presidential Election of 2009.
> 
> 
> *Shahla Atta*
> Ran in the Afghan Presidential Election of 2009.
> 
> *Azerbaijan[edit]*
> 
> *Lala Shevket*
> She is a Professor and Doctor of medicine. She became the first female ambassador in Azerbaijan in 1993. She served as the Secretary of State in Azerbaijan from 1993-1994. She chose to resign from this position because of her dissatisfaction with corruption within the government. She founded the Azerbaijan Liberal Party in 1995 and has conducted Presidential runs as the head of this party.[14]
> 
> *Bahrain[edit]*
> 
> *Lateefa Al Gaood*
> First female elected to the Council of Representatives of Bahrain in 2006 and is the only female to ever have been a council member.
> 
> 
> *Nada Haffadh*
> First ever female cabinet minister when she was appointed as the Minister of Health in 2004. She also served within the upper house of parliament in the Consultative Council in 2007.
> 
> *Bangladesh[edit]*
> As the third most populous Muslim-majority country, Bangladesh has been ruled, as of 2016, for the last 25 years by female Prime Ministers[15] by electing Khaleda Zia[16] andSheikh Hasina as prime ministers.
> *Sheikh Hasina*
> Prime Minister of Bangladesh from 1996-2001 and 2009–Present. She is a member of the Council of Women World Leaders.
> *Khaleda Zia*
> Prime Minister of Bangladesh from 1991-1996 and 2001-2006. When elected in 1991 she became the first female Prime Minister of Bangladesh and the second female leader in the Muslim world to be a leader of a democratic government.[17] She is also the chairperson and leader of the Bangladesh Nationalist Party and has been ranked by _Forbes_ three times as the 100 Most Powerful Women in the World. [17][18][19]
> 
> *Egypt[edit]*
> Nearly one-third of the Parliament of Egypt- the fifth most populous Muslim majority nation- also consists of women.[20]
> *Rawya Ateya*
> In 1956 she became the first woman to be commissioned as an officer in the Liberation Army of Egypt. She is considered to be a pioneer for female leaders in Muslim-majority countries. She was the first female Parliamentarian in the Arab world when in 1957 she served in the Parliament of Egypt.[21][22]
> 
> *Indonesia[edit]*
> The most populous Muslim-majority country.
> *Megawati Sukarnoputri*
> She served as president of Indonesia from 2001-2004, becoming the first female president of Indonesia and the fourth female to lead a Muslim-majority nation.[23]
> 
> *Jordan[edit]*
> *Toujan al-Faisal*
> She became Jordan's first female member of Parliament when elected in 1993. She faced lots of backlash as a female in this position, including arrests and mistreatment while imprisoned, causing a global outcry and the assistance of Amnesty International.
> 
> *Kosovo[edit]*
> *Atifete Jahjaga*
> In the Muslim majority territory of Kosovo, President Atifete Jahjaga was unanimously elected by the Assembly of Kosovo on April 7, 2011.[24]
> 
> *Kyrgyzstan[edit]*
> *Roza Otunbayeva*
> As an atheist,[25] she was sworn in as President of the Muslim-majority Kyrgyzstan on 3 July 2010, after acting as interim leader following the Tulip Revolution.
> 
> *Pakistan[edit]*
> The second most populous Muslim-majority country.
> 
> 
> 
> *Benazir Bhutto*
> In 1982 she became the first female in Pakistan to lead a political party, the Pakistan People's Party. Her father, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, founded thePakistan People's Party in 1968.[26] She was elected twice as the Prime Minister [27] of Pakistan. Her first election to Prime Minister in 1988 made her the first woman to lead a Muslim-majority country. She served in this position from 1988-1990 and from 1992-1996. She was assassinated as a candidate in the 2008 election for Prime Minister.
> 
> *Senegal[edit]*
> *Mame Madior Boye*
> She was elected as the Minister of Justice in 2000 and was Prime Minister from 2001 to 2002. She is the first female in Senegal to hold this position.
> 
> *Turkey[edit]*
> *Tansu Çiller*
> Became Prime Minister of Turkey in 1993. Four Muslim countries have been or are currently led by women because of successions after deceased fathers, husbands, etc. Ciller, however, won her position as Prime Minister entirely on her own.[28] Ciller attended Robert College and later received her Master’s and Ph.D. Ciller returned to Turkey and taught economics at Bosphorus University after her husband was offered a good job. She entered politics in 1990 by joining the True Path Party (which she is now the president of) under Suleyman Demirel. Ciller quickly became assistant of the party, and then entered the 1991 election where she won and received the responsibility for ministry of economy in the government. President Turgu Ozal died in 1993, so Demirel took his position as president. Ciller saw her chance and took it, for she won the position as prime minister in June 1993. Tansu Ciller is one of Turkey’s most powerful politicians and is said to be the key to forming the next government. Ciller’s supporters favor her modernization/westernization ideas. Despite her followers, Ciller also had many people against her reforms. Ciller was forced to leave the government after she made some unpopular actions as prime minister. Her questionable decisions led to three different parliamentary investigations on her, so Ciller decided to leave office in 1995. Despite her mistakes, Ciller still remains very powerful today.[29]
> All of these oppressed women have managed to make it to the top in savage third world shitholes. It doesnt really tally with a narrative of downtrodden submissive housewives who cant go out of the house without permission.
> 
> I do recognise that it isnt the full story but neither is the broad brush approach to 1.6bn people.
> 
> Meanwhile in the Land of the Free a woman who is standing for President is described as all sorts of disgusting things. Her daughter is castigated for the crime of being "fucking ugly" as well.
> 
> Another candidates wife is used as some sort of trophy to beat up a rivals wife who isnt a supermodel.
> 
> A tv reporter who has the cheek to do her job is thought to be having a period.
> 
> Women earn less than men and have the pleasure of men deciding what is best for their bodies.
> 
> Male rapists in this country are set free if a conviction will damage their career prospects and all in all its a lot more nuanced than the idiocracy would have you believe.


I see that Tilly thinks that rape is funny.


----------



## Meathead

Meathead said:


> I've little doubt you have, but please stop being silly by asking me where. I would have to go through more posts than the Beast's deleted emails.
> 
> Regardless, the left exaggerates on-campus rape and minimizes that of Muslims because it fits into their agenda.
> 
> Enough sleaze, OK?


Exactly what I said in fact. Stop with the histrionics and sleaze. You are of course free to make a fool of yourself. As someone who has a commitment to this site, one would think it would give you pause, but whatever.


----------



## Tommy Tainant

What is clear is that people are not prepared to discuss the subject as adults.

The hysterical mindset does not allow for that.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Meathead said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're a liar.  I haven't.  And that is because I recognize the campus rape issue is very lopsided and frankly, unjust to the boys in the way it's applied by some institutions not to mention the scandals like Tawana Brawley where it was outright faked and their lives were basically ruined because of it.
> 
> Yes.  Please stop your sleaze.
> 
> 
> 
> Stop your histrionics and tell me what I've lied about. Stop with the run-on sentences and the sleaze too. Thank you.
Click to expand...



This maniac that calls itself Coyote literally cannot stop.

 It's defense of any and all things Islamic is so obsessive and so compulsive that it's very psyche would shatter if it ever stopped -- and I say "it" because this double-talking piece of excrement surely cannot be a woman. I mean, really now -- how many actual women show this degree of solidarity with rapists who target ethnicities different than their own?


----------



## Uncensored2008

Tommy Tainant said:


> There is a lot of gibberish talked about the role of women in Islam. It really isnt as straightforward as the frothers would make out.
> 
> *Afghanistan[edit]*
> 
> *Miss Kubra Nurzai*
> First female minister of Afghanistan. The third Afghan Constitution (in 1964 under King Zahir Shah) gave women the right to vote and enter parliament as elected candidates for the first time. As a result, in elections the following year three women were elected as members of the parliament and two appointed as members of the senate. Kubra Nurzai was appointed Minister of Public Health in 1965 and re-appointed in 1967.[12]
> 
> 
> *Massouda Jalal*
> After graduating medical school in Kabul in 1988, she practiced as a physician until 1999 when the rule of the Taliban made this impossible. She began working for the women-led UN World Food Progamme (WFP) in 1999. After the Taliban was removed from power in 2002 she was one of 200 women who participated in the loya jirga. She ran for president in 2002, becoming the first woman to run for this position in Afghanistan. She won 171 votes (the second most ballots received) in the 2002 presidential election against Karzai.[13] She lost the election to Hamid Karzai but served within his cabinet as the Women's Affairs Minister from 2004-2006. Jalal was later nominated to study in Washington, DC at the Center for Development and Population Activities (CEDPA), which teaches women how to advance their leadership roles.[13]
> 
> 
> *Azra Jafari*
> One of 200 women who participated in the loya jirga after the fall of the Taliban in 2002. She is the first female mayor in Afghanistan. She is the current mayor of Nili, a town inDaykundi Province of Afghanistan.
> 
> 
> *Fawzia Koofi*
> In 2014 she became a candidate for President of Afghanistan after being elected as the Vice President of the National Assembly of Afghanistan in 2005. As Vice President she became the first female Second Deputy Speaker of Parliament.
> 
> 
> *Sima Samar*
> She served as the Afghanistan Ministry of Women's Affairs from 2001-2003.
> 
> 
> *Frozan Fana*
> Ran in the Afghan Presidential Election of 2009.
> 
> 
> *Shahla Atta*
> Ran in the Afghan Presidential Election of 2009.
> 
> *Azerbaijan[edit]*
> 
> *Lala Shevket*
> She is a Professor and Doctor of medicine. She became the first female ambassador in Azerbaijan in 1993. She served as the Secretary of State in Azerbaijan from 1993-1994. She chose to resign from this position because of her dissatisfaction with corruption within the government. She founded the Azerbaijan Liberal Party in 1995 and has conducted Presidential runs as the head of this party.[14]
> 
> *Bahrain[edit]*
> 
> *Lateefa Al Gaood*
> First female elected to the Council of Representatives of Bahrain in 2006 and is the only female to ever have been a council member.
> 
> 
> *Nada Haffadh*
> First ever female cabinet minister when she was appointed as the Minister of Health in 2004. She also served within the upper house of parliament in the Consultative Council in 2007.
> 
> *Bangladesh[edit]*
> As the third most populous Muslim-majority country, Bangladesh has been ruled, as of 2016, for the last 25 years by female Prime Ministers[15] by electing Khaleda Zia[16] andSheikh Hasina as prime ministers.
> *Sheikh Hasina*
> Prime Minister of Bangladesh from 1996-2001 and 2009–Present. She is a member of the Council of Women World Leaders.
> *Khaleda Zia*
> Prime Minister of Bangladesh from 1991-1996 and 2001-2006. When elected in 1991 she became the first female Prime Minister of Bangladesh and the second female leader in the Muslim world to be a leader of a democratic government.[17] She is also the chairperson and leader of the Bangladesh Nationalist Party and has been ranked by _Forbes_ three times as the 100 Most Powerful Women in the World. [17][18][19]
> 
> *Egypt[edit]*
> Nearly one-third of the Parliament of Egypt- the fifth most populous Muslim majority nation- also consists of women.[20]
> *Rawya Ateya*
> In 1956 she became the first woman to be commissioned as an officer in the Liberation Army of Egypt. She is considered to be a pioneer for female leaders in Muslim-majority countries. She was the first female Parliamentarian in the Arab world when in 1957 she served in the Parliament of Egypt.[21][22]
> 
> *Indonesia[edit]*
> The most populous Muslim-majority country.
> *Megawati Sukarnoputri*
> She served as president of Indonesia from 2001-2004, becoming the first female president of Indonesia and the fourth female to lead a Muslim-majority nation.[23]
> 
> *Jordan[edit]*
> *Toujan al-Faisal*
> She became Jordan's first female member of Parliament when elected in 1993. She faced lots of backlash as a female in this position, including arrests and mistreatment while imprisoned, causing a global outcry and the assistance of Amnesty International.
> 
> *Kosovo[edit]*
> *Atifete Jahjaga*
> In the Muslim majority territory of Kosovo, President Atifete Jahjaga was unanimously elected by the Assembly of Kosovo on April 7, 2011.[24]
> 
> *Kyrgyzstan[edit]*
> *Roza Otunbayeva*
> As an atheist,[25] she was sworn in as President of the Muslim-majority Kyrgyzstan on 3 July 2010, after acting as interim leader following the Tulip Revolution.
> 
> *Pakistan[edit]*
> The second most populous Muslim-majority country.
> 
> 
> 
> *Benazir Bhutto*
> In 1982 she became the first female in Pakistan to lead a political party, the Pakistan People's Party. Her father, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, founded thePakistan People's Party in 1968.[26] She was elected twice as the Prime Minister [27] of Pakistan. Her first election to Prime Minister in 1988 made her the first woman to lead a Muslim-majority country. She served in this position from 1988-1990 and from 1992-1996. She was assassinated as a candidate in the 2008 election for Prime Minister.
> 
> *Senegal[edit]*
> *Mame Madior Boye*
> She was elected as the Minister of Justice in 2000 and was Prime Minister from 2001 to 2002. She is the first female in Senegal to hold this position.
> 
> *Turkey[edit]*
> *Tansu Çiller*
> Became Prime Minister of Turkey in 1993. Four Muslim countries have been or are currently led by women because of successions after deceased fathers, husbands, etc. Ciller, however, won her position as Prime Minister entirely on her own.[28] Ciller attended Robert College and later received her Master’s and Ph.D. Ciller returned to Turkey and taught economics at Bosphorus University after her husband was offered a good job. She entered politics in 1990 by joining the True Path Party (which she is now the president of) under Suleyman Demirel. Ciller quickly became assistant of the party, and then entered the 1991 election where she won and received the responsibility for ministry of economy in the government. President Turgu Ozal died in 1993, so Demirel took his position as president. Ciller saw her chance and took it, for she won the position as prime minister in June 1993. Tansu Ciller is one of Turkey’s most powerful politicians and is said to be the key to forming the next government. Ciller’s supporters favor her modernization/westernization ideas. Despite her followers, Ciller also had many people against her reforms. Ciller was forced to leave the government after she made some unpopular actions as prime minister. Her questionable decisions led to three different parliamentary investigations on her, so Ciller decided to leave office in 1995. Despite her mistakes, Ciller still remains very powerful today.[29]
> All of these oppressed women have managed to make it to the top in savage third world shitholes. It doesnt really tally with a narrative of downtrodden submissive housewives who cant go out of the house without permission.
> 
> I do recognise that it isnt the full story but neither is the broad brush approach to 1.6bn people.
> 
> Meanwhile in the Land of the Free a woman who is standing for President is described as all sorts of disgusting things. Her daughter is castigated for the crime of being "fucking ugly" as well.
> 
> Another candidates wife is used as some sort of trophy to beat up a rivals wife who isnt a supermodel.
> 
> A tv reporter who has the cheek to do her job is thought to be having a period.
> 
> Women earn less than men and have the pleasure of men deciding what is best for their bodies.
> 
> Male rapists in this country are set free if a conviction will damage their career prospects and all in all its a lot more nuanced than the idiocracy would have you believe.



It's good to know that Afghanistan is such a forward thinking nation with absolute rights for Women, Ahmed,

You're such an honest chap that I believe every word from your Pakistani ass...


----------



## Uncensored2008

Tommy Tainant said:


> What is clear is that people are not prepared to discuss the subject as adults.



What is clear is that your Jihadi ass lies incessantly.



> The hysterical mindset does not allow for that.



Allahu Akbar indeed, little Paki Pom.


----------



## Tommy Tainant

Uncensored2008 said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is clear is that people are not prepared to discuss the subject as adults.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is clear is that your Jihadi ass lies incessantly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The hysterical mindset does not allow for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Allahu Akbar indeed, little Paki Pom.
Click to expand...

Case in point.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Tommy Tainant said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is clear is that people are not prepared to discuss the subject as adults.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is clear is that your Jihadi ass lies incessantly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The hysterical mindset does not allow for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Allahu Akbar indeed, little Paki Pom.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Case in point.
Click to expand...


Indeed Ahmed.


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're a liar.  I haven't.  And that is because I recognize the campus rape issue is very lopsided and frankly, unjust to the boys in the way it's applied by some institutions not to mention the scandals like Tawana Brawley where it was outright faked and their lives were basically ruined because of it.
> 
> Yes.  Please stop your sleaze.
> 
> 
> 
> Stop your histrionics and tell me what I've lied about. Stop with the run-on sentences and the sleaze too. Thank you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This maniac that calls itself Coyote literally cannot stop.
> 
> It's defense of any and all things Islamic is so obsessive and so compulsive that it's very psyche would shatter if it ever stopped -- and I say "it" because this double-talking piece of excrement surely cannot be a woman. I mean, really now -- how many actual women show this degree of solidarity with rapists who target ethnicities different than their own?
Click to expand...


Thank you for you're valuable contribution to this discussion.  Perhaps, some day you can tell us why you chose to use a discredited poll from a hate site over a reputable source in your rabid efforts to demonize Muslims.  Think you can answer that sweetie or will it make it obvious to all what a bigot you are under that thin veneer of "liberal values"?


----------



## Coyote

Meathead seems to think that campus rape claims are exaggerated but Muslim rape claims are not.

Interesting double standards.

All claims of rape, sexual assault or harrassment should be taken seriously and thoroughly investigated.  And the names of all involved should be kept confidential until it's completed and any court cases resolved.  That way women will get taken seriously and, if the claims are falsified - no one's reputations will be ruined.


----------



## Coyote

The Myth of Rape Jihad

A new term coined by modern day bigots attempting to instill the fear of MOOOOOOSSSSLIIIIIMMMMMS in us white women.  I'm sure some are daily wetting their panties over this.  Rape has long been a tool of war, if you have any doubts, look at what has been occurring and is still occuring in the Congo civil war.  Of course, it's not of interest to some of the denizens in this thread because it doesn't involve Muslims as either victims or perpetrators of atrocities, and participants are all Africans, which probably even makes it less interesting to some but it is an example of exactly how horrifically "rape jihad" is being used as a weapon of war, even to brutalizing infants.  

For some reason, people now seem to think that every act of rape, sexual assault, or harrassment by someone who is foreign looking and possibly Muslim is a clear act of "rape jihad".  Not rape.  Not sexual assault.  Not sexual harrassment.  But this brand new made up term: rape jihad because the prevailing hysteria is all Muslims want to do is destroy us, and if they can't do it by propoganda (which is tough to comprehend how 1.6 billion Muslims, including groups that don't even get along with each other, can come up with an agreed-upon propoganda) then by gum, it's going to be rape jihad.  Sweden's crime statistics don't even come close to supporting this claim.

Perhaps it's largely fabricated out of fear and xenophobic hatred?  Or maybe it grew from a false claim from Pamela Gellar about a supposed fatwa calling for "sexual jihad".  This fatwa does not appear to exist outside of Gellar's imagination.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> The Myth of Rape Jihad
> 
> A new term coined by modern day bigots attempting to instill the fear of MOOOOOOSSSSLIIIIIMMMMMS in us white women.  I'm sure some are daily wetting their panties over this.  Rape has long been a tool of war, if you have any doubts, look at what has been occurring and is still occuring in the Congo civil war.  Of course, it's not of interest to some of the denizens in this thread because it doesn't involve Muslims as either victims or perpetrators of atrocities, and participants are all Africans, which probably even makes it less interesting to some but it is an example of exactly how horrifically "rape jihad" is being used as a weapon of war, even to brutalizing infants.
> 
> For some reason, people now seem to think that every act of rape, sexual assault, or harrassment by someone who is foreign looking and possibly Muslim is a clear act of "rape jihad".  Not rape.  Not sexual assault.  Not sexual harrassment.  But this brand new made up term: rape jihad because the prevailing hysteria is all Muslims want to do is destroy us, and if they can't do it by propoganda (which is tough to comprehend how 1.6 billion Muslims, including groups that don't even get along with each other, can come up with an agreed-upon propoganda) then by gum, it's going to be rape jihad.  Sweden's crime statistics don't even come close to supporting this claim.
> 
> Perhaps it's largely fabricated out of fear and xenophobic hatred?  Or maybe it grew from a false claim from Pamela Gellar about a supposed fatwa calling for "sexual jihad".  This fatwa does not appear to exist outside of Gellar's imagination.


No false claims, excrement. It has been a patten of Muslim behavior as they move into new territory for well over a millenium.  Mohammad, himself, ordered it.


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth of Rape Jihad
> 
> A new term coined by modern day bigots attempting to instill the fear of MOOOOOOSSSSLIIIIIMMMMMS in us white women.  I'm sure some are daily wetting their panties over this.  Rape has long been a tool of war, if you have any doubts, look at what has been occurring and is still occuring in the Congo civil war.  Of course, it's not of interest to some of the denizens in this thread because it doesn't involve Muslims as either victims or perpetrators of atrocities, and participants are all Africans, which probably even makes it less interesting to some but it is an example of exactly how horrifically "rape jihad" is being used as a weapon of war, even to brutalizing infants.
> 
> For some reason, people now seem to think that every act of rape, sexual assault, or harrassment by someone who is foreign looking and possibly Muslim is a clear act of "rape jihad".  Not rape.  Not sexual assault.  Not sexual harrassment.  But this brand new made up term: rape jihad because the prevailing hysteria is all Muslims want to do is destroy us, and if they can't do it by propoganda (which is tough to comprehend how 1.6 billion Muslims, including groups that don't even get along with each other, can come up with an agreed-upon propoganda) then by gum, it's going to be rape jihad.  Sweden's crime statistics don't even come close to supporting this claim.
> 
> Perhaps it's largely fabricated out of fear and xenophobic hatred?  Or maybe it grew from a false claim from Pamela Gellar about a supposed fatwa calling for "sexual jihad".  This fatwa does not appear to exist outside of Gellar's imagination.
> 
> 
> 
> No false claims, excrement. It has been a patten of Muslim behavior as they move into new territory for well over a millenium.  Mohammad, himself, ordered it.
Click to expand...


You'd be funny, if you weren't so pathetically bigoted.

Why did you choose that poll, eh?


----------



## Tilly

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth of Rape Jihad
> 
> A new term coined by modern day bigots attempting to instill the fear of MOOOOOOSSSSLIIIIIMMMMMS in us white women.  I'm sure some are daily wetting their panties over this.  Rape has long been a tool of war, if you have any doubts, look at what has been occurring and is still occuring in the Congo civil war.  Of course, it's not of interest to some of the denizens in this thread because it doesn't involve Muslims as either victims or perpetrators of atrocities, and participants are all Africans, which probably even makes it less interesting to some but it is an example of exactly how horrifically "rape jihad" is being used as a weapon of war, even to brutalizing infants.
> 
> For some reason, people now seem to think that every act of rape, sexual assault, or harrassment by someone who is foreign looking and possibly Muslim is a clear act of "rape jihad".  Not rape.  Not sexual assault.  Not sexual harrassment.  But this brand new made up term: rape jihad because the prevailing hysteria is all Muslims want to do is destroy us, and if they can't do it by propoganda (which is tough to comprehend how 1.6 billion Muslims, including groups that don't even get along with each other, can come up with an agreed-upon propoganda) then by gum, it's going to be rape jihad.  Sweden's crime statistics don't even come close to supporting this claim.
> 
> Perhaps it's largely fabricated out of fear and xenophobic hatred?  Or maybe it grew from a false claim from Pamela Gellar about a supposed fatwa calling for "sexual jihad".  This fatwa does not appear to exist outside of Gellar's imagination.
> 
> 
> 
> No false claims, excrement. It has been a patten of Muslim behavior as they move into new territory for well over a millenium.  Mohammad, himself, ordered it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You'd be funny, if you weren't so pathetically bigoted.
> 
> Why did you choose that poll, eh?
Click to expand...




 

Dear god, you are the most boring tedious pedant on this board. It's excruciating not to be able to put you on ignore.
 I wonder if a special case could be made where you are concerned? 
It's not even easy to scroll past your crap because you insist on posting a yard and a half of it in every other post. God save us from the unbelievably boring troll that is Coyote Ugly. Lol.


----------



## Coyote

Rape has been a weapon of war since time immemorial.  Some fools seem to think it started with Islam.  They call it "rape jihad", a recently coined term that did not exist a few decades ago.  Perhaps these fools should check out the Old Testement, and see what it has to say about rape and war.  Is that "rape jihad" too?


----------



## Coyote

Tilly said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth of Rape Jihad
> 
> A new term coined by modern day bigots attempting to instill the fear of MOOOOOOSSSSLIIIIIMMMMMS in us white women.  I'm sure some are daily wetting their panties over this.  Rape has long been a tool of war, if you have any doubts, look at what has been occurring and is still occuring in the Congo civil war.  Of course, it's not of interest to some of the denizens in this thread because it doesn't involve Muslims as either victims or perpetrators of atrocities, and participants are all Africans, which probably even makes it less interesting to some but it is an example of exactly how horrifically "rape jihad" is being used as a weapon of war, even to brutalizing infants.
> 
> For some reason, people now seem to think that every act of rape, sexual assault, or harrassment by someone who is foreign looking and possibly Muslim is a clear act of "rape jihad".  Not rape.  Not sexual assault.  Not sexual harrassment.  But this brand new made up term: rape jihad because the prevailing hysteria is all Muslims want to do is destroy us, and if they can't do it by propoganda (which is tough to comprehend how 1.6 billion Muslims, including groups that don't even get along with each other, can come up with an agreed-upon propoganda) then by gum, it's going to be rape jihad.  Sweden's crime statistics don't even come close to supporting this claim.
> 
> Perhaps it's largely fabricated out of fear and xenophobic hatred?  Or maybe it grew from a false claim from Pamela Gellar about a supposed fatwa calling for "sexual jihad".  This fatwa does not appear to exist outside of Gellar's imagination.
> 
> 
> 
> No false claims, excrement. It has been a patten of Muslim behavior as they move into new territory for well over a millenium.  Mohammad, himself, ordered it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You'd be funny, if you weren't so pathetically bigoted.
> 
> Why did you choose that poll, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> View attachment 86831
> 
> Dear god, you are the most boring tedious pedant on this board. It's excruciating not to be able to put you on ignore.
> I wonder if a special case could be made where you are concerned?
> It's not even easy to scroll past your crap because you insist on posting a yard and a half of it in every other post. God save us from the unbelievably boring troll that is Coyote Ugly. Lol.
Click to expand...


Some one is holding a gun to your head and keeping you in this thread you ridiculous cow?

You have free will.  Use it.

In the meantime, I'll work on simple bumper-sticker slogans and soundbytes so as not to tax your reading skills.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Only a piece of true excrement would call the rejection of rape an act of bigotry.


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Only a piece of true excrement would call the rejection of rape an act of bigotry.



Your "concern" for rape comes to a stuttering halt when it doesn't involve Muslims.  Your obsession with excrement is duly noted, Dogcrap.

By the way, why did you chose a poll from a hate site, instead of a reputable one like Pew, when you attempted to demonize American Muslims?  Was it because Pew didn't portray them as the evil intolerant thugs you wish them to be?


----------



## Tilly

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only a piece of true excrement would call the rejection of rape an act of bigotry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your "concern" for rape comes to a stuttering halt when it doesn't involve Muslims.  Your obsession with excrement is duly noted, Dogcrap.
> 
> By the way, why did you chose a poll from a hate site, instead of a reputable one like Pew, when you attempted to demonize American Muslims?  Was it because Pew didn't portray them as the evil intolerant thugs you wish them to be?
Click to expand...

Now you are SPAMMING and TROLLING. Lol.


----------



## Tilly

Coyote said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth of Rape Jihad
> 
> A new term coined by modern day bigots attempting to instill the fear of MOOOOOOSSSSLIIIIIMMMMMS in us white women.  I'm sure some are daily wetting their panties over this.  Rape has long been a tool of war, if you have any doubts, look at what has been occurring and is still occuring in the Congo civil war.  Of course, it's not of interest to some of the denizens in this thread because it doesn't involve Muslims as either victims or perpetrators of atrocities, and participants are all Africans, which probably even makes it less interesting to some but it is an example of exactly how horrifically "rape jihad" is being used as a weapon of war, even to brutalizing infants.
> 
> For some reason, people now seem to think that every act of rape, sexual assault, or harrassment by someone who is foreign looking and possibly Muslim is a clear act of "rape jihad".  Not rape.  Not sexual assault.  Not sexual harrassment.  But this brand new made up term: rape jihad because the prevailing hysteria is all Muslims want to do is destroy us, and if they can't do it by propoganda (which is tough to comprehend how 1.6 billion Muslims, including groups that don't even get along with each other, can come up with an agreed-upon propoganda) then by gum, it's going to be rape jihad.  Sweden's crime statistics don't even come close to supporting this claim.
> 
> Perhaps it's largely fabricated out of fear and xenophobic hatred?  Or maybe it grew from a false claim from Pamela Gellar about a supposed fatwa calling for "sexual jihad".  This fatwa does not appear to exist outside of Gellar's imagination.
> 
> 
> 
> No false claims, excrement. It has been a patten of Muslim behavior as they move into new territory for well over a millenium.  Mohammad, himself, ordered it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You'd be funny, if you weren't so pathetically bigoted.
> 
> Why did you choose that poll, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> View attachment 86831
> 
> Dear god, you are the most boring tedious pedant on this board. It's excruciating not to be able to put you on ignore.
> I wonder if a special case could be made where you are concerned?
> It's not even easy to scroll past your crap because you insist on posting a yard and a half of it in every other post. God save us from the unbelievably boring troll that is Coyote Ugly. Lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some one is holding a gun to your head and keeping you in this thread you ridiculous cow?
> 
> You have free will.  Use it.
> 
> In the meantime, I'll work on simple bumper-sticker slogans and soundbytes so as not to tax your reading skills.
Click to expand...

Ooooooooh, bitchy. Keep your mangy hair on  you silly obsessive old bore.


----------



## Tilly

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only a piece of true excrement would call the rejection of rape an act of bigotry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your "concern" for rape comes to a stuttering halt when it doesn't involve Muslims.  Your obsession with excrement is duly noted, Dogcrap.
> 
> By the way, why did you chose a poll from a hate site, instead of a reputable one like Pew, when you attempted to demonize American Muslims?  Was it because Pew didn't portray them as the evil intolerant thugs you wish them to be?
Click to expand...

Yawn.


----------



## Coyote

Tilly said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth of Rape Jihad
> 
> A new term coined by modern day bigots attempting to instill the fear of MOOOOOOSSSSLIIIIIMMMMMS in us white women.  I'm sure some are daily wetting their panties over this.  Rape has long been a tool of war, if you have any doubts, look at what has been occurring and is still occuring in the Congo civil war.  Of course, it's not of interest to some of the denizens in this thread because it doesn't involve Muslims as either victims or perpetrators of atrocities, and participants are all Africans, which probably even makes it less interesting to some but it is an example of exactly how horrifically "rape jihad" is being used as a weapon of war, even to brutalizing infants.
> 
> For some reason, people now seem to think that every act of rape, sexual assault, or harrassment by someone who is foreign looking and possibly Muslim is a clear act of "rape jihad".  Not rape.  Not sexual assault.  Not sexual harrassment.  But this brand new made up term: rape jihad because the prevailing hysteria is all Muslims want to do is destroy us, and if they can't do it by propoganda (which is tough to comprehend how 1.6 billion Muslims, including groups that don't even get along with each other, can come up with an agreed-upon propoganda) then by gum, it's going to be rape jihad.  Sweden's crime statistics don't even come close to supporting this claim.
> 
> Perhaps it's largely fabricated out of fear and xenophobic hatred?  Or maybe it grew from a false claim from Pamela Gellar about a supposed fatwa calling for "sexual jihad".  This fatwa does not appear to exist outside of Gellar's imagination.
> 
> 
> 
> No false claims, excrement. It has been a patten of Muslim behavior as they move into new territory for well over a millenium.  Mohammad, himself, ordered it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You'd be funny, if you weren't so pathetically bigoted.
> 
> Why did you choose that poll, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> View attachment 86831
> 
> Dear god, you are the most boring tedious pedant on this board. It's excruciating not to be able to put you on ignore.
> I wonder if a special case could be made where you are concerned?
> It's not even easy to scroll past your crap because you insist on posting a yard and a half of it in every other post. God save us from the unbelievably boring troll that is Coyote Ugly. Lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some one is holding a gun to your head and keeping you in this thread you ridiculous cow?
> 
> You have free will.  Use it.
> 
> In the meantime, I'll work on simple bumper-sticker slogans and soundbytes so as not to tax your reading skills.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ooooooooh, bitchy. Keep your mangy hair on  you silly obsessive old bore.
Click to expand...


----------



## Coyote

Tilly said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only a piece of true excrement would call the rejection of rape an act of bigotry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your "concern" for rape comes to a stuttering halt when it doesn't involve Muslims.  Your obsession with excrement is duly noted, Dogcrap.
> 
> By the way, why did you chose a poll from a hate site, instead of a reputable one like Pew, when you attempted to demonize American Muslims?  Was it because Pew didn't portray them as the evil intolerant thugs you wish them to be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yawn.
> View attachment 86842
Click to expand...


And yet...you're still here.  Spray doesn't seem very effective.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote what is your fascination with Islam and these migrants?
> 
> It seems you desperately want to make every known excuse in the book for them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One.  I'm not making excuses.  Name one excuse I've given for rape, or any other violent behavior.  I want the truth.  What is the truth?  What are the facts when you strip emotional hype and fear?
> 
> Fear drives us to unspeakable things to our fellow people.
> 
> My fascination is less with Islam then it is with scapegoating and broadbrushing an entire group of people and right now, it's acceptable to scapegoat Muslims broadly and completely, with out regard to whether it's conspiracy theory, the actions of a few, or hype over fact.  Seems to be me any right thinking person should be concerned when a group gets scapegoated.  We don't tolerate it when it's Jews or Blacks do we?  How do our resident racists/anti-semites get treated?  Not with respect.  But when it comes to Muslims, it's the broad brush and if you question it, ask for facts, you are labeled.
> 
> I'll give an example.  Why do I press Dogma on the issue of a poll?  Because, in a thread on American Muslims, he wanted to show that American Muslims are just as violent, extremist, intolerant, etc as he views Muslims in other countries.  Previously he had used Pew, a well respected non-partisan source for views of Muslims around the world towards Sharia, apostacy, homosexuality and women's rights.  So did he use Pew in this thread?  No.  He chose a poll that who's methodology is roundly criticized and debunked, from a site widely considered way out there by many, and a hate site, who's results purported to show something like over 50% suppported religous violence and Sharia as law of the land, or something.  This completely contradicted Pew, which showed American Muslims are largely the same as other demographic groups in America in their opinions towards seperation of religion and state, violence, homosexuality, and women's rights.  So, Pew is "good enough" for worldwide opinion but suddenly not "good enough" for American Muslim opinion?  When a person deliberately chooses to use something from a disreputable site over something from a reputable site - I think it's reasonable to ask "why" and what are the motivations?
> 
> My "fascination" with migrants and refugees is because they are PEOPLE, living, breathing people who have gone through horrendous experiences in an attempt to escape what are often desperate situations.  It takes a particular desperation and courage to do that, and the death toll in those sea voyages and at the hands of traffickers is very high.  We tend to forget they are human beings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. This entire thread is about a conspiracy against Muslims.  This is an excuse to the media reports of them rapefugees.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Conspiracy theories aren't backed by data or facts.  My thread's OP is backed by crime statistics over a period of time.  The same sort of crime statistics, I might add, that are perfectly acceptable under other circumstances.  The fact that you refer to refugees/migrants as whole as "rapefugees" pretty much supports my position.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. On broad stroking a group of people....   If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck... It's a duck.
> 
> Muslims worldwide share the belief in oppression of women and children.   Not all rape away in praise to Allah.    But they do support wearing oppressive garmets.
> 
> This is my biggest issue with Islam.    Their constant oppression, which has no place in western society.   Which is why I would shut the borders to them.   Until they had a reformation to remove these beliefs and teachings .   My wife is Russian orthodox and wears a scarf in church but only wears it in church.   She doesn't wear it everywhere .... She still believes in God and isn't any less of an orthodox because of this ....  How is this any different than a Muslim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There I disagree with you, because it assumes two things - that all Muslims adhere to the most conservative aspects of Islam, that they all believe in oppressing women, and that Islam is unchangeable.   Attitudes towards women vary according to the culture of the people who practice that faith.  For example - look at FGM.  It's most prevalent in N. Africa, and in the countries where it is still practiced, it is done by Christian, Animaist and Muslims alike.  Yet, in other Muslim majority countries it is unheard of.  There is nothing in Islam itself that demands it - it's a cultural legacy.
> 
> Opinions of Muslims towards the role of women around the world may lag behind those of western countries, but within Western countries, like the US, Muslim opinions are in line with that of other demographic groups.
> 
> Muslims and Islam: Key findings in the U.S. and around the world
> 
> *What do American Muslims believe?*
> 
> _Our 2011 survey of Muslim Americans found that roughly half of U.S. Muslims (48%) say their own religious leaders have not done enough to speak out against Islamic extremists.
> 
> 
> Living in a religiously pluralistic society, Muslim Americans are more likely than Muslims in many other nations to have many non-Muslim friends. Only about half (48%) of U.S. Muslims say all or most of their close friends are also Muslims, compared with a global median of 95% in the 39 countries we surveyed.
> 
> 
> Roughly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (69%) say religion is very important in their lives. Virtually all (96%) say they believe in God, nearly two-thirds (65%) report praying at least daily and nearly half (47%) say they attend religious services at least weekly. By all of these traditional measures, Muslims in the U.S. are roughly as religious as U.S. Christians, although they are less religious than Muslims in many other nations.
> 
> 
> When it comes to political and social views, Muslims are far more likely to identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party (70%) than the Republican Party (11%) and to say they prefer a bigger government providing more services (68%) over a smaller government providing fewer services (21%). As of 2011, U.S. Muslims were somewhat split between those who said homosexuality should be accepted by society (39%) and those who said it should be discouraged (45%), although the group had grown considerably more accepting of homosexuality since a similar survey was conducted in 2007._​
> Section 5: Political Opinions and Social Values
> _Muslim Americans show strong support for allowing women to join the workforce. Nine-in-ten either completely (72%) or mostly agree (18%) that women should be able to work outside the home. Among the U.S. general public, almost all either completely (81%) or mostly (16%) agree with this.
> 
> Attitudes among Muslim Americans are similar to attitudes among Muslims in Lebanon and Turkey. But support for women working outside the home is considerably smaller in many other Muslim nations. For example, in Egypt, only about six-in-ten say they either completely agree (23%) or mostly agree (39%) that women should be allowed to work outside the home. About four-in-ten (39%) disagree.
> 
> Nearly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (68%) say gender makes no difference in the quality of political leaders. Still, about a quarter (27%) say men make better political leaders. Very few (4%) say women make better leaders. There are only slight differences in views on this between men and women and among various age groups. Among the U.S. public, 72% say gender does not determine who will be the better political leader. About one-in-ten each say men (12%) or women (13%) make better lead
> 
> _​
> 
> 
> 
> 3. How you treat other posters is of no concern to me in this discussion.   That is between you and them.     I am more concerned with the topic and not a side argument over past threads.
> 
> 4. So you would be willing to take on any people as long as they can make it here?
> 
> This type of belief is just not feasible in our society.    If we didn't have any social benefits then possibly....   But we  just can afford adding people from the 3rd world.    Not to mention the harm it would do our culture to be flooded with 3rd worlders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I would not be willing to take on any people.  I would not take those convicted of violent crimes for example.  I'm not "open borders".  I think there should be a good vetting process for people from certain countries and we do need to have limits.  I don't think it's because of our social benefits system, since few tend to utilize them, and when they do it's not for long.  Most want to work.
> 
> The question I have though, is that your argument - " the harm it would do our culture to be flooded with 3rd worlders" - is the same argument that has been applied to many other immigrant groups over successive waves of immigration: Irish, Chinese, East European Jews, Italians etc. and the sky never fell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it's not courageous for fighting aged men to flee the fight to go to the west.     Were you also cheering on the guy in titanic who got on the lifeboat ahead of women and children?    Was he courageous?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think it is that black and white.  Many of those "fighting age men" are not - they're just men, and there is no breakdown in ages in the data.  There is also considerable differences in the different groups.  For migrants and refugees trying to make it to Europe, 53% are men, with no age breakdown.
> 
> That  number includes all migrants.  However, the number of Syrian refugees overall, is dominated by women and children, most of whom are in the camps.
> 
> I don't consider it comparable to the life boat situation because I can see why men would go first.  The journey is tremendously dangerous, with a high mortality rate and an uncertain future.  The family is usually left in relative safety by comparison. While the conditions are bad in the refugee camps, at least they aren't being straffed by barrel bombs or sold as sex slaves by ISIS.  I would think it would be the men who would take the risks to try and establish themselves and bring their families over.
> 
> I've heard the argument before that these men are cowardly and should stay and fight.  My response is this - who are we to judge them when we do not walk in their shoes?  Listening to interviews with refugees from the Syrian conflict - what they and their families have been through is horrendous.  It's a war with no clear sides and horrible atrocities perpetrated on civilians.   It's not a new argument.  In fact, the same arguments were made in taking Jewish refugees during the holocaust.  Some countries that were willing to take them, would only take the children.  So desperate parents sent their children to try and save them.  And of course, the parents died.  In a conflict like Syria - I wouldn't judge the men.  That's different than the migrants though, but even then - they are fleeing different things so you can't just broadly judge it, it's case by case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for being human beings....    If they are brought up to believe In oppression and rape of women and children....  Just how human are they?    Sounds more like how animals believe....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just how human are they?  Very.
> 
> You assume they are all rapists and abusers regardless of background, education, culture and individuality.  I disagree with that assumption.
Click to expand...


All We have is all these personal accounts of women who have been raped and sexually assaulted by Arab and African men.   Migrants are African and Arab.   

What's odd is that you take these personal accounts and dismiss them.  

Even if you live at the holy altar of government crime stats.  Where there is smoke there is fire.   Unless you think these women are making stuff up?    

Probably should consider that Sweden stopped charting gang rape stats in 2006 because it was rising.     Stats are kept to make police efforts look better.     There has been a long Muslim problem in Sweden for a time.   Same as Finland.


----------



## Tilly

Regardless of the rape apologists obfuscations and lies, Islam has a rape culture, and we've invited it into Europe. Now we are paying.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Tommy Tainant said:


> There is a lot of gibberish talked about the role of women in Islam. It really isnt as straightforward as the frothers would make out.
> 
> *Afghanistan[edit]*
> 
> *Miss Kubra Nurzai*
> First female minister of Afghanistan. The third Afghan Constitution (in 1964 under King Zahir Shah) gave women the right to vote and enter parliament as elected candidates for the first time. As a result, in elections the following year three women were elected as members of the parliament and two appointed as members of the senate. Kubra Nurzai was appointed Minister of Public Health in 1965 and re-appointed in 1967.[12]
> 
> 
> *Massouda Jalal*
> After graduating medical school in Kabul in 1988, she practiced as a physician until 1999 when the rule of the Taliban made this impossible. She began working for the women-led UN World Food Progamme (WFP) in 1999. After the Taliban was removed from power in 2002 she was one of 200 women who participated in the loya jirga. She ran for president in 2002, becoming the first woman to run for this position in Afghanistan. She won 171 votes (the second most ballots received) in the 2002 presidential election against Karzai.[13] She lost the election to Hamid Karzai but served within his cabinet as the Women's Affairs Minister from 2004-2006. Jalal was later nominated to study in Washington, DC at the Center for Development and Population Activities (CEDPA), which teaches women how to advance their leadership roles.[13]
> 
> 
> *Azra Jafari*
> One of 200 women who participated in the loya jirga after the fall of the Taliban in 2002. She is the first female mayor in Afghanistan. She is the current mayor of Nili, a town inDaykundi Province of Afghanistan.
> 
> 
> *Fawzia Koofi*
> In 2014 she became a candidate for President of Afghanistan after being elected as the Vice President of the National Assembly of Afghanistan in 2005. As Vice President she became the first female Second Deputy Speaker of Parliament.
> 
> 
> *Sima Samar*
> She served as the Afghanistan Ministry of Women's Affairs from 2001-2003.
> 
> 
> *Frozan Fana*
> Ran in the Afghan Presidential Election of 2009.
> 
> 
> *Shahla Atta*
> Ran in the Afghan Presidential Election of 2009.
> 
> *Azerbaijan[edit]*
> 
> *Lala Shevket*
> She is a Professor and Doctor of medicine. She became the first female ambassador in Azerbaijan in 1993. She served as the Secretary of State in Azerbaijan from 1993-1994. She chose to resign from this position because of her dissatisfaction with corruption within the government. She founded the Azerbaijan Liberal Party in 1995 and has conducted Presidential runs as the head of this party.[14]
> 
> *Bahrain[edit]*
> 
> *Lateefa Al Gaood*
> First female elected to the Council of Representatives of Bahrain in 2006 and is the only female to ever have been a council member.
> 
> 
> *Nada Haffadh*
> First ever female cabinet minister when she was appointed as the Minister of Health in 2004. She also served within the upper house of parliament in the Consultative Council in 2007.
> 
> *Bangladesh[edit]*
> As the third most populous Muslim-majority country, Bangladesh has been ruled, as of 2016, for the last 25 years by female Prime Ministers[15] by electing Khaleda Zia[16] andSheikh Hasina as prime ministers.
> *Sheikh Hasina*
> Prime Minister of Bangladesh from 1996-2001 and 2009–Present. She is a member of the Council of Women World Leaders.
> *Khaleda Zia*
> Prime Minister of Bangladesh from 1991-1996 and 2001-2006. When elected in 1991 she became the first female Prime Minister of Bangladesh and the second female leader in the Muslim world to be a leader of a democratic government.[17] She is also the chairperson and leader of the Bangladesh Nationalist Party and has been ranked by _Forbes_ three times as the 100 Most Powerful Women in the World. [17][18][19]
> 
> *Egypt[edit]*
> Nearly one-third of the Parliament of Egypt- the fifth most populous Muslim majority nation- also consists of women.[20]
> *Rawya Ateya*
> In 1956 she became the first woman to be commissioned as an officer in the Liberation Army of Egypt. She is considered to be a pioneer for female leaders in Muslim-majority countries. She was the first female Parliamentarian in the Arab world when in 1957 she served in the Parliament of Egypt.[21][22]
> 
> *Indonesia[edit]*
> The most populous Muslim-majority country.
> *Megawati Sukarnoputri*
> She served as president of Indonesia from 2001-2004, becoming the first female president of Indonesia and the fourth female to lead a Muslim-majority nation.[23]
> 
> *Jordan[edit]*
> *Toujan al-Faisal*
> She became Jordan's first female member of Parliament when elected in 1993. She faced lots of backlash as a female in this position, including arrests and mistreatment while imprisoned, causing a global outcry and the assistance of Amnesty International.
> 
> *Kosovo[edit]*
> *Atifete Jahjaga*
> In the Muslim majority territory of Kosovo, President Atifete Jahjaga was unanimously elected by the Assembly of Kosovo on April 7, 2011.[24]
> 
> *Kyrgyzstan[edit]*
> *Roza Otunbayeva*
> As an atheist,[25] she was sworn in as President of the Muslim-majority Kyrgyzstan on 3 July 2010, after acting as interim leader following the Tulip Revolution.
> 
> *Pakistan[edit]*
> The second most populous Muslim-majority country.
> 
> 
> 
> *Benazir Bhutto*
> In 1982 she became the first female in Pakistan to lead a political party, the Pakistan People's Party. Her father, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, founded thePakistan People's Party in 1968.[26] She was elected twice as the Prime Minister [27] of Pakistan. Her first election to Prime Minister in 1988 made her the first woman to lead a Muslim-majority country. She served in this position from 1988-1990 and from 1992-1996. She was assassinated as a candidate in the 2008 election for Prime Minister.
> 
> *Senegal[edit]*
> *Mame Madior Boye*
> She was elected as the Minister of Justice in 2000 and was Prime Minister from 2001 to 2002. She is the first female in Senegal to hold this position.
> 
> *Turkey[edit]*
> *Tansu Çiller*
> Became Prime Minister of Turkey in 1993. Four Muslim countries have been or are currently led by women because of successions after deceased fathers, husbands, etc. Ciller, however, won her position as Prime Minister entirely on her own.[28] Ciller attended Robert College and later received her Master’s and Ph.D. Ciller returned to Turkey and taught economics at Bosphorus University after her husband was offered a good job. She entered politics in 1990 by joining the True Path Party (which she is now the president of) under Suleyman Demirel. Ciller quickly became assistant of the party, and then entered the 1991 election where she won and received the responsibility for ministry of economy in the government. President Turgu Ozal died in 1993, so Demirel took his position as president. Ciller saw her chance and took it, for she won the position as prime minister in June 1993. Tansu Ciller is one of Turkey’s most powerful politicians and is said to be the key to forming the next government. Ciller’s supporters favor her modernization/westernization ideas. Despite her followers, Ciller also had many people against her reforms. Ciller was forced to leave the government after she made some unpopular actions as prime minister. Her questionable decisions led to three different parliamentary investigations on her, so Ciller decided to leave office in 1995. Despite her mistakes, Ciller still remains very powerful today.[29]
> All of these oppressed women have managed to make it to the top in savage third world shitholes. It doesnt really tally with a narrative of downtrodden submissive housewives who cant go out of the house without permission.
> 
> I do recognise that it isnt the full story but neither is the broad brush approach to 1.6bn people.
> 
> Meanwhile in the Land of the Free a woman who is standing for President is described as all sorts of disgusting things. Her daughter is castigated for the crime of being "fucking ugly" as well.
> 
> Another candidates wife is used as some sort of trophy to beat up a rivals wife who isnt a supermodel.
> 
> A tv reporter who has the cheek to do her job is thought to be having a period.
> 
> Women earn less than men and have the pleasure of men deciding what is best for their bodies.
> 
> Male rapists in this country are set free if a conviction will damage their career prospects and all in all its a lot more nuanced than the idiocracy would have you believe.




You think your slick posting a book so no one will actually go through this mess.   

How many of these women came to power under secular leadership?   

I know the Turkish PM was under a secular led government.    

It's funny to see you grandstand and the minions who like the post.     None of you have taken the time to educate yourselves on this list.    And that's why logic leaves these boards and makes it practically impossible to have a logical conversation because for you guys its all about emotion.   

I'm sure I am not the only one who. Called this out.  I haven't gotten that far in the thread yet to see the others blast this post.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Tommy Tainant said:


> What is clear is that people are not prepared to discuss the subject as adults.
> 
> The hysterical mindset does not allow for that.



Oh there is a lot of clear things in this thread.    Your lazy posts being one of them.    

Coyote at least engages and discusses even though she takes the emotional position over the logical one.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> Rape has been a weapon of war since time immemorial.  Some fools seem to think it started with Islam.  They call it "rape jihad", a recently coined term that did not exist a few decades ago.  Perhaps these fools should check out the Old Testement, and see what it has to say about rape and war.  Is that "rape jihad" too?



Rape jihad didn't exist when they did it to the Byzantines?   

Didn't become prominent out in the open in Egypt when The Muslim brotherhood took over.  (Thanks Obama) 

Rape jihad is just shaming women to the point they don't want to have non Muslim children or if they are lucky they pregnate the victims with a Muslim kid.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only a piece of true excrement would call the rejection of rape an act of bigotry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your "concern" for rape comes to a stuttering halt when it doesn't involve Muslims.  Your obsession with excrement is duly noted, Dogcrap.
> 
> By the way, why did you chose a poll from a hate site, instead of a reputable one like Pew, when you attempted to demonize American Muslims?  Was it because
> Pew didn't portray them as the evil intolerant thugs you wish them to be?
Click to expand...








 This will only work if you actually take it, filth.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Coyote said:


> Thank you for you're valuable contribution to this discussion.  Perhaps, some day you can tell us why you chose to use a discredited poll from a hate site over a reputable source in your rabid efforts to demonize Muslims.  Think you can answer that sweetie or will it make it obvious to all what a bigot you are under that thin veneer of "liberal values"?



He used a poll from the Huffington Post?


----------



## Uncensored2008

Coyote said:


> The Myth of Rape Jihad
> 
> A new term coined by modern day bigots attempting to instill the fear of MOOOOOOSSSSLIIIIIMMMMMS in us white women.  I'm sure some are daily wetting their panties over this.  Rape has long been a tool of war, if you have any doubts, look at what has been occurring and is still occuring in the Congo civil war.  Of course, it's not of interest to some of the denizens in this thread because it doesn't involve Muslims as either victims or perpetrators of atrocities, and participants are all Africans, which probably even makes it less interesting to some but it is an example of exactly how horrifically "rape jihad" is being used as a weapon of war, even to brutalizing infants.
> 
> For some reason, people now seem to think that every act of rape, sexual assault, or harrassment by someone who is foreign looking and possibly Muslim is a clear act of "rape jihad".  Not rape.  Not sexual assault.  Not sexual harrassment.  But this brand new made up term: rape jihad because the prevailing hysteria is all Muslims want to do is destroy us, and if they can't do it by propoganda (which is tough to comprehend how 1.6 billion Muslims, including groups that don't even get along with each other, can come up with an agreed-upon propoganda) then by gum, it's going to be rape jihad.  Sweden's crime statistics don't even come close to supporting this claim.
> 
> Perhaps it's largely fabricated out of fear and xenophobic hatred?  Or maybe it grew from a false claim from Pamela Gellar about a supposed fatwa calling for "sexual jihad".  This fatwa does not appear to exist outside of Gellar's imagination.



Rape is indeed a weapon of war, one which your Muslim allies are using liberally in Europe as part of your war on Western Civilization. You excuse it simply because of your goal to crush Western culture.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Coyote said:


> You'd be funny, if you weren't so pathetically bigoted.
> 
> Why did you choose that poll, eh?



Bigoted against rape?


----------



## Tilly

Such respect for women:

*Gang of French Muslims probed by police after group of British women assaulted in Spain*
*A GANG of French Muslims have been probed by police after a group of British women holidaymakers were assaulted at a popular Spanish tourist resort.*
By GERARD COUZENS
PUBLISHED: 14:20, Thu, Aug 25, 2016 | UPDATED: 14:21, Thu, Aug 25, 2016







GETTY

Puerto Banus is southwest of Marbella, Spain on the Costa del Sol
One woman, a 19-year-old from Farnborough in Hampshire, suffered a broken nose after being punched in the face.

A second woman, a 20-year-old from Essex, was taken to hospital semi-conscious with arm and head injuries.

Witnesses claimed the men, French-born but of Arabic origin, began to attack the young women in the upmarket resort of Puerto Banus near Marbella after one tried to touch up the teenager who suffered the broken nose.

One man was arrested for assault and three friends taken with him to a nearby police station so they could be identified as part of an ongoing investigation. ...

Gang of French Muslims probed by police after group of British women assaulted in Spain


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Uncensored2008 said:


> You excuse it simply because of your goal to crush Western culture.




Which, in turn, is caused by a lack of self-worth.

When those who lack a sense of self worth look inside themselves and recognize just how worthless they feel, the honest and courageous people take stock of themselves and take measures to improve their worth -- not only to themselves, but to others as well. Cowardly, simpering individuals, however, simply blame their worthlessness on everybody else, and so align themselves with those seeking to destroy their own culture in a childish exhibition of nihilistic acting out.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Tilly said:


> Such respect for women:
> 
> *Gang of French Muslims probed by police after group of British women assaulted in Spain*
> *A GANG of French Muslims have been probed by police after a group of British women holidaymakers were assaulted at a popular Spanish tourist resort.*
> By GERARD COUZENS
> PUBLISHED: 14:20, Thu, Aug 25, 2016 | UPDATED: 14:21, Thu, Aug 25, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GETTY
> 
> Puerto Banus is southwest of Marbella, Spain on the Costa del Sol
> One woman, a 19-year-old from Farnborough in Hampshire, suffered a broken nose after being punched in the face.
> 
> A second woman, a 20-year-old from Essex, was taken to hospital semi-conscious with arm and head injuries.
> 
> Witnesses claimed the men, French-born but of Arabic origin, began to attack the young women in the upmarket resort of Puerto Banus near Marbella after one tried to touch up the teenager who suffered the broken nose.
> 
> One man was arrested for assault and three friends taken with him to a nearby police station so they could be identified as part of an ongoing investigation. ...
> 
> Gang of French Muslims probed by police after group of British women assaulted in Spain



wait this article says that Muslims are in the wrong......   Must be a fake article from a hate site


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote what is your fascination with Islam and these migrants?
> 
> It seems you desperately want to make every known excuse in the book for them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One.  I'm not making excuses.  Name one excuse I've given for rape, or any other violent behavior.  I want the truth.  What is the truth?  What are the facts when you strip emotional hype and fear?
> 
> Fear drives us to unspeakable things to our fellow people.
> 
> My fascination is less with Islam then it is with scapegoating and broadbrushing an entire group of people and right now, it's acceptable to scapegoat Muslims broadly and completely, with out regard to whether it's conspiracy theory, the actions of a few, or hype over fact.  Seems to be me any right thinking person should be concerned when a group gets scapegoated.  We don't tolerate it when it's Jews or Blacks do we?  How do our resident racists/anti-semites get treated?  Not with respect.  But when it comes to Muslims, it's the broad brush and if you question it, ask for facts, you are labeled.
> 
> I'll give an example.  Why do I press Dogma on the issue of a poll?  Because, in a thread on American Muslims, he wanted to show that American Muslims are just as violent, extremist, intolerant, etc as he views Muslims in other countries.  Previously he had used Pew, a well respected non-partisan source for views of Muslims around the world towards Sharia, apostacy, homosexuality and women's rights.  So did he use Pew in this thread?  No.  He chose a poll that who's methodology is roundly criticized and debunked, from a site widely considered way out there by many, and a hate site, who's results purported to show something like over 50% suppported religous violence and Sharia as law of the land, or something.  This completely contradicted Pew, which showed American Muslims are largely the same as other demographic groups in America in their opinions towards seperation of religion and state, violence, homosexuality, and women's rights.  So, Pew is "good enough" for worldwide opinion but suddenly not "good enough" for American Muslim opinion?  When a person deliberately chooses to use something from a disreputable site over something from a reputable site - I think it's reasonable to ask "why" and what are the motivations?
> 
> My "fascination" with migrants and refugees is because they are PEOPLE, living, breathing people who have gone through horrendous experiences in an attempt to escape what are often desperate situations.  It takes a particular desperation and courage to do that, and the death toll in those sea voyages and at the hands of traffickers is very high.  We tend to forget they are human beings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. This entire thread is about a conspiracy against Muslims.  This is an excuse to the media reports of them rapefugees.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Conspiracy theories aren't backed by data or facts.  My thread's OP is backed by crime statistics over a period of time.  The same sort of crime statistics, I might add, that are perfectly acceptable under other circumstances.  The fact that you refer to refugees/migrants as whole as "rapefugees" pretty much supports my position.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. On broad stroking a group of people....   If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck... It's a duck.
> 
> Muslims worldwide share the belief in oppression of women and children.   Not all rape away in praise to Allah.    But they do support wearing oppressive garmets.
> 
> This is my biggest issue with Islam.    Their constant oppression, which has no place in western society.   Which is why I would shut the borders to them.   Until they had a reformation to remove these beliefs and teachings .   My wife is Russian orthodox and wears a scarf in church but only wears it in church.   She doesn't wear it everywhere .... She still believes in God and isn't any less of an orthodox because of this ....  How is this any different than a Muslim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There I disagree with you, because it assumes two things - that all Muslims adhere to the most conservative aspects of Islam, that they all believe in oppressing women, and that Islam is unchangeable.   Attitudes towards women vary according to the culture of the people who practice that faith.  For example - look at FGM.  It's most prevalent in N. Africa, and in the countries where it is still practiced, it is done by Christian, Animaist and Muslims alike.  Yet, in other Muslim majority countries it is unheard of.  There is nothing in Islam itself that demands it - it's a cultural legacy.
> 
> Opinions of Muslims towards the role of women around the world may lag behind those of western countries, but within Western countries, like the US, Muslim opinions are in line with that of other demographic groups.
> 
> Muslims and Islam: Key findings in the U.S. and around the world
> 
> *What do American Muslims believe?*
> 
> _Our 2011 survey of Muslim Americans found that roughly half of U.S. Muslims (48%) say their own religious leaders have not done enough to speak out against Islamic extremists.
> 
> 
> Living in a religiously pluralistic society, Muslim Americans are more likely than Muslims in many other nations to have many non-Muslim friends. Only about half (48%) of U.S. Muslims say all or most of their close friends are also Muslims, compared with a global median of 95% in the 39 countries we surveyed.
> 
> 
> Roughly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (69%) say religion is very important in their lives. Virtually all (96%) say they believe in God, nearly two-thirds (65%) report praying at least daily and nearly half (47%) say they attend religious services at least weekly. By all of these traditional measures, Muslims in the U.S. are roughly as religious as U.S. Christians, although they are less religious than Muslims in many other nations.
> 
> 
> When it comes to political and social views, Muslims are far more likely to identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party (70%) than the Republican Party (11%) and to say they prefer a bigger government providing more services (68%) over a smaller government providing fewer services (21%). As of 2011, U.S. Muslims were somewhat split between those who said homosexuality should be accepted by society (39%) and those who said it should be discouraged (45%), although the group had grown considerably more accepting of homosexuality since a similar survey was conducted in 2007._​
> Section 5: Political Opinions and Social Values
> _Muslim Americans show strong support for allowing women to join the workforce. Nine-in-ten either completely (72%) or mostly agree (18%) that women should be able to work outside the home. Among the U.S. general public, almost all either completely (81%) or mostly (16%) agree with this.
> 
> Attitudes among Muslim Americans are similar to attitudes among Muslims in Lebanon and Turkey. But support for women working outside the home is considerably smaller in many other Muslim nations. For example, in Egypt, only about six-in-ten say they either completely agree (23%) or mostly agree (39%) that women should be allowed to work outside the home. About four-in-ten (39%) disagree.
> 
> Nearly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (68%) say gender makes no difference in the quality of political leaders. Still, about a quarter (27%) say men make better political leaders. Very few (4%) say women make better leaders. There are only slight differences in views on this between men and women and among various age groups. Among the U.S. public, 72% say gender does not determine who will be the better political leader. About one-in-ten each say men (12%) or women (13%) make better lead
> 
> _​
> 
> 
> 
> 3. How you treat other posters is of no concern to me in this discussion.   That is between you and them.     I am more concerned with the topic and not a side argument over past threads.
> 
> 4. So you would be willing to take on any people as long as they can make it here?
> 
> This type of belief is just not feasible in our society.    If we didn't have any social benefits then possibly....   But we  just can afford adding people from the 3rd world.    Not to mention the harm it would do our culture to be flooded with 3rd worlders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I would not be willing to take on any people.  I would not take those convicted of violent crimes for example.  I'm not "open borders".  I think there should be a good vetting process for people from certain countries and we do need to have limits.  I don't think it's because of our social benefits system, since few tend to utilize them, and when they do it's not for long.  Most want to work.
> 
> The question I have though, is that your argument - " the harm it would do our culture to be flooded with 3rd worlders" - is the same argument that has been applied to many other immigrant groups over successive waves of immigration: Irish, Chinese, East European Jews, Italians etc. and the sky never fell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it's not courageous for fighting aged men to flee the fight to go to the west.     Were you also cheering on the guy in titanic who got on the lifeboat ahead of women and children?    Was he courageous?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think it is that black and white.  Many of those "fighting age men" are not - they're just men, and there is no breakdown in ages in the data.  There is also considerable differences in the different groups.  For migrants and refugees trying to make it to Europe, 53% are men, with no age breakdown.
> 
> That  number includes all migrants.  However, the number of Syrian refugees overall, is dominated by women and children, most of whom are in the camps.
> 
> I don't consider it comparable to the life boat situation because I can see why men would go first.  The journey is tremendously dangerous, with a high mortality rate and an uncertain future.  The family is usually left in relative safety by comparison. While the conditions are bad in the refugee camps, at least they aren't being straffed by barrel bombs or sold as sex slaves by ISIS.  I would think it would be the men who would take the risks to try and establish themselves and bring their families over.
> 
> I've heard the argument before that these men are cowardly and should stay and fight.  My response is this - who are we to judge them when we do not walk in their shoes?  Listening to interviews with refugees from the Syrian conflict - what they and their families have been through is horrendous.  It's a war with no clear sides and horrible atrocities perpetrated on civilians.   It's not a new argument.  In fact, the same arguments were made in taking Jewish refugees during the holocaust.  Some countries that were willing to take them, would only take the children.  So desperate parents sent their children to try and save them.  And of course, the parents died.  In a conflict like Syria - I wouldn't judge the men.  That's different than the migrants though, but even then - they are fleeing different things so you can't just broadly judge it, it's case by case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for being human beings....    If they are brought up to believe In oppression and rape of women and children....  Just how human are they?    Sounds more like how animals believe....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just how human are they?  Very.
> 
> You assume they are all rapists and abusers regardless of background, education, culture and individuality.  I disagree with that assumption.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All We have is all these personal accounts of women who have been raped and sexually assaulted by Arab and African men.   Migrants are African and Arab.
> 
> What's odd is that you take these personal accounts and dismiss them.
> 
> Even if you live at the holy altar of government crime stats.  Where there is smoke there is fire.   Unless you think these women are making stuff up?
> 
> Probably should consider that Sweden stopped charting gang rape stats in 2006 because it was rising.     Stats are kept to make police efforts look better.     There has been a long Muslim problem in Sweden for a time.   Same as Finland.
Click to expand...



Actually, what we have are personal accounts that actually include few rapes, lots of sexual harrassment and assault claims. 

I frankly think that the claim "where there is smoke there is fire" is a bad thing to go by.  It can ruin innocent people's lives and reputations.  Personal testimonials are iffy as reliable unless they are investigated.   If you think Sweden stopped charting crime stats in 2006, then offer some evidence for it.  Personally my thought is that a ten year conspiracy of silence and deliberate hiding of crime statistics throughout an entire nation, in a society as open as Sweden's would be difficult to pull off and not very believable.

I'm not outright dismissing claims - I'm saying  all claims should be investigated and some have been verified and even arrests made.  But I'm skeptical because there is a mass hysteria aspect to it that is not reflected in official crime rates.  When you couple that with increased xenophobia, a rise in rightwing nationalism and anti-immigrant sentiment overall that is looking for scapegoats, then any reasonable person should be careful of jumping to conclusions.  There are two things you can always count on to anger and mobilize a population:  outsiders raping their women and sexually abusing children and that occurs in every culture.

I mentioned earlier examples with attitudes of whites towards black men during Jim Crowe, and how innocent men were lynched for just looking at a white woman wrong.  A more recent example involves sexual abuse of children.  Some years ago...maybe the 80's or 90's?....there was a rash of claims of sexual abuse of children in daycares.  There was a fairly  new psychiatric method by which they interviewed extremely young children, I'm thinking as young as 1-2, barely verbal, and got them to give information leading them to believe the child had been molested.  The method was controversial and untested, there was no physical evidence supporting it, but it was used to charge people and take them to court.  The result was massive hysteria, news coverage, etc and parents wanting their children examined.  The outcome of it was, few convictions, I think, but also people subsequently found innocent, their lives completely ruined because of the "where there's smoke there's fire" and it led to descrediting of that particular pschological tool.  So, were these kids being molested?  In some cases, I'm sure they were.  In others, not.  But the hysteria that just the possibility it could have occurred created a mood that pushed events faster than they could be investigated responsibly, and into the court of public opinion.

That is why I'm skeptical of claims of "mass rapes on white women" and "sexual jihad".  And, I also suspect that now someone is going to claim I support abuse of children.


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rape has been a weapon of war since time immemorial.  Some fools seem to think it started with Islam.  They call it "rape jihad", a recently coined term that did not exist a few decades ago.  Perhaps these fools should check out the Old Testement, and see what it has to say about rape and war.  Is that "rape jihad" too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rape jihad didn't exist when they did it to the Byzantines?
> 
> Didn't become prominent out in the open in Egypt when The Muslim brotherhood took over.  (Thanks Obama)
> 
> Rape jihad is just shaming women to the point they don't want to have non Muslim children or if they are lucky they pregnate the victims with a Muslim kid.
Click to expand...



Rape jihad did not exist.  Rape as a tool of war certainly did, and I doubt you would find a single civilization in the pre-modern era that did not use it, and it is still used in many conflicts.  What people who are now calling it "rape jihad" are trying to do is make it seem as if it's unique to Islamic conflicts.


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rape has been a weapon of war since time immemorial.  Some fools seem to think it started with Islam.  They call it "rape jihad", a recently coined term that did not exist a few decades ago.  Perhaps these fools should check out the Old Testement, and see what it has to say about rape and war.  Is that "rape jihad" too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rape jihad didn't exist when they did it to the Byzantines?
> 
> Didn't become prominent out in the open in Egypt when The Muslim brotherhood took over.  (Thanks Obama)
> 
> Rape jihad is just *shaming women to the point they don't want to have non Muslim children* or if they are lucky they pregnate the victims with a Muslim kid.
Click to expand...


That occurs in a number of conservative religious groups - they don't want daughters marrying outside the faith or having children outside the faith.


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You excuse it simply because of your goal to crush Western culture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which, in turn, is caused by a lack of self-worth.
> 
> When those who lack a sense of self worth look inside themselves and recognize just how worthless they feel, the honest and courageous people take stock of themselves and take measures to improve their worth -- not only to themselves, but to others as well. Cowardly, simpering individuals, however, simply blame their worthlessness on everybody else, and so align themselves with those seeking to destroy their own culture in a childish exhibition of nihilistic acting out.
Click to expand...



Was it lack of self worth that caused you to select a discredited poll from a hate site over the reputable sources you normally use or is it simply that your pathological hatred of all Muslims, even Americans, has created a total breakdown in your integrity and honesty?

Not that I expect an honest answer from you


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I just love these threads started by rape apologists.
> They could give a damn less about the victims.*
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please, you know damn well you guys don't give a damn about rape, or other abusive crimes against women and girls such as child marriages UNLESS Muslims are involved
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to test than theory and post a thread about a story of a pedo rapist and see what happens .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a list of threads involving abusive practices to women, rape, child rape, etc.  Feel free to join in.  Most didn't get much attention.
> 
> Ex-Employee Leaks Details About Refugee Abuse On Nauru
> Child Marriages
> Rape
> Worst Places for Women
> For India's Widows, A Riot Of Color, An Act Of Liberation
> Congolese Doctor Denis Mukwege Receives Sakharov Prize
> In Congo, Trapped In Violence And Forgotten
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I will check these as I go.    But if you are looking for sympathy for anyone who chooses not to live right then you are barking up the wrong tree.
> 
> I would shut borders from any place that oppresses women and/or children.       I think we need less of these people and more of the people who know how to live right.
> 
> My sister in law lives in Belarus and she would be a much better addition to any western country than anyone from the Middle East outside of Israel.   But she refuses to enter any country by hook or crook.
> 
> If you want to discuss immigration policy then I would take a page from the US immigration 1924 and limit each country to 3% yearly of the foreign born population of legal citizens.       I would block the Middle East and Central America.   One being at war with Islamic terrorism and Central America for the purpose to allow us to work through all the current illegals in this country.   Given most are from Central America.    A 10 year hold on immigration from these parts should allow us to catch up and tackle the current illegals.    After we round up any of them who have had a felony and deported them immediately.
> 
> Immigration should be a slow and steady drip so they can assimilate to our nation and our cultural beliefs since they are moving to be part of our culture.
> 
> I love the Australian point system for immigration.   If you are not familiar then I encourage you to familiarize yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> In light of your feelings about the oppression of women, you might want to rethink whether you want to bring in people from Belarus...
> 
> Empowering Belarusian Women to Combat Domestic Violence
> _Every fourth woman in Belarus has been physically abused by her partner. Just in the last three months, 24 Belarusians have died as a result of domestic violence, a 41% increase from last year.
> 
> 
> For decades, impunity for such abuse has persisted in Belarus, a country with a traditional view on a women’s place in society and a troublesome human rights record for both men and women. Domestic violence is finally becoming a public issue and preventative and punitive measures are being taken...
> 
> ...A typical Belarusian domestic bully is a man in his thirties or forties, intoxicated and unemployed, according to Oleg Karazei, Head of the Prevention Office of the Central Department for Law Enforcement and Prevention of the Belarusian Interior Ministry. Thus, a high level of alcohol consumption, economic problems, and the lower status of women may contribute to the high prevalence of domestic violence in Belarus._
> 
> _*The Role of Culture and Gender Roles*
> 
> 
> Most important, the prevalence of domestic violence correlates with the status of women and cultural norms regarding gender roles. On the one hand, the law treats women and men in Belarus equally. The country has acceded to all major relevant international conventions related to the rights of women, including the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women (Women’s Convention) and  its Optional Protocol.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, discrimination against women on the job market and the so-called “glass ceiling” remain prevalent. Patriarchal notions of a woman's role in the family pervade the social and political sphere. Belarusian women are largely responsible for child upbringing, and President Lukashenka himself views women primarily as “keepers of hearth and home". For example, in 2010 he said, "It is undeniable that the Lord has ordained a woman to be a mother. Regardless of a woman's career, she has to care for her children. I want our women to give birth to at least three children."
> 
> 
> Gender stereotypes make violence easier to justify and can prevent women from reporting abuse. Cultural norms play a large role in the way women choose to respond to violence. Women in Belarus, as well as in other post-Soviet states, are expected "not to wash their dirty laundry in public"._​
Click to expand...



I can only assume this was supposed to be your "gotcha" post showing me that Belarusian women are victims as well.     Not sure what point you were trying to make especially when i said my sister in law.   Now I should make sure that you know that sister in law means a woman.   She isnt one of those trannies or delusional pretenders.   An actual real life woman here.....   

I am really not sure what point you are trying to make.   That men who drink get into violent fits and pick on someone weaker than them?   Belarusian culture doesn't oppress women.   They are equals in society....    

This was interesting...  


_*..A typical Belarusian domestic bully is a man in his thirties or forties, intoxicated and unemployed, according to Oleg Karazei, Head of the Prevention Office of the Central Department for Law Enforcement and Prevention of the Belarusian Interior Ministry. Thus, a high level of alcohol consumption, economic problems, and the lower status of women may contribute to the high prevalence of domestic violence in Belarus.*_

You know what we didnt see in there.......  Their religion telling them its ok and permitted to abuse, rape, or assault their women.   They have drinking problem when it comes to violence at home.    Not a religion problem.    Same as we have here.....


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rape has been a weapon of war since time immemorial.  Some fools seem to think it started with Islam.  They call it "rape jihad", a recently coined term that did not exist a few decades ago.  Perhaps these fools should check out the Old Testement, and see what it has to say about rape and war.  Is that "rape jihad" too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rape jihad didn't exist when they did it to the Byzantines?
> 
> Didn't become prominent out in the open in Egypt when The Muslim brotherhood took over.  (Thanks Obama)
> 
> Rape jihad is just *shaming women to the point they don't want to have non Muslim children* or if they are lucky they pregnate the victims with a Muslim kid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That occurs in a number of conservative religious groups - they don't want daughters marrying outside the faith or having children outside the faith.
Click to expand...



Yes but how many religions promote rape to hinder outsiders?


----------



## Uncensored2008

Coyote said:


> [
> 
> 
> Was it lack of self worth that caused you to select a discredited poll from a hate site over the reputable sources you normally use or is it simply that your pathological hatred of all Muslims, even Americans, has created a total breakdown in your integrity and honesty?
> 
> Not that I expect an honest answer from you



Which hate site did he use? DailyKOS? ThinkProgress? Alternet? Democratic Underground? MoveOn?

All that hatred has a common source...


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Such respect for women:
> 
> *Gang of French Muslims probed by police after group of British women assaulted in Spain*
> *A GANG of French Muslims have been probed by police after a group of British women holidaymakers were assaulted at a popular Spanish tourist resort.*
> By GERARD COUZENS
> PUBLISHED: 14:20, Thu, Aug 25, 2016 | UPDATED: 14:21, Thu, Aug 25, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GETTY
> 
> Puerto Banus is southwest of Marbella, Spain on the Costa del Sol
> One woman, a 19-year-old from Farnborough in Hampshire, suffered a broken nose after being punched in the face.
> 
> A second woman, a 20-year-old from Essex, was taken to hospital semi-conscious with arm and head injuries.
> 
> Witnesses claimed the men, French-born but of Arabic origin, began to attack the young women in the upmarket resort of Puerto Banus near Marbella after one tried to touch up the teenager who suffered the broken nose.
> 
> One man was arrested for assault and three friends taken with him to a nearby police station so they could be identified as part of an ongoing investigation. ...
> 
> Gang of French Muslims probed by police after group of British women assaulted in Spain
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wait this article says that Muslims are in the wrong......   Must be a fake article from a hate site
Click to expand...


You'd have a point if anyone was saying it never occurred, but they aren't.  There are always violent crimes, crimes against women, gang activity and assaults.   The question is - is it the  "rape epidemic" that is being claimed?  Sure you can find dozens of individual articles on individual events.  I can pull up many articles of crimes and assaults where the perpetrators weren't "arabic looking men".  Crime does occur.  But is it occuring out of proportion to prior  trends?


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rape has been a weapon of war since time immemorial.  Some fools seem to think it started with Islam.  They call it "rape jihad", a recently coined term that did not exist a few decades ago.  Perhaps these fools should check out the Old Testement, and see what it has to say about rape and war.  Is that "rape jihad" too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rape jihad didn't exist when they did it to the Byzantines?
> 
> Didn't become prominent out in the open in Egypt when The Muslim brotherhood took over.  (Thanks Obama)
> 
> Rape jihad is just *shaming women to the point they don't want to have non Muslim children* or if they are lucky they pregnate the victims with a Muslim kid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That occurs in a number of conservative religious groups - they don't want daughters marrying outside the faith or having children outside the faith.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes but how many religions promote rape to hinder outsiders?
Click to expand...


None.


----------



## Uncensored2008

StLucieBengal said:


> I can only assume this was supposed to be your "gotcha" post showing me that Belarusian women are victims as well.     Not sure what point you were trying to make especially when i said my sister in law.   Now I should make sure that you know that sister in law means a woman.   She isnt one of those trannies or delusional pretenders.   An actual real life woman here.....
> 
> I am really not sure what point you are trying to make.   That men who drink get into violent fits and pick on someone weaker than them?   Belarusian culture doesn't oppress women.   They are equals in society....
> 
> This was interesting...
> 
> 
> _*..A typical Belarusian domestic bully is a man in his thirties or forties, intoxicated and unemployed, according to Oleg Karazei, Head of the Prevention Office of the Central Department for Law Enforcement and Prevention of the Belarusian Interior Ministry. Thus, a high level of alcohol consumption, economic problems, and the lower status of women may contribute to the high prevalence of domestic violence in Belarus.*_
> 
> You know what we didnt see in there.......  Their religion telling them its ok and permitted to abuse, rape, or assault their women.   They have drinking problem when it comes to violence at home.    Not a religion problem.    Same as we have here.....



The other thing we didn't see is how many of the perpetrators are ethnic Chechens?

I'm just sayin....


----------



## Mindful

Coyote said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Such respect for women:
> 
> *Gang of French Muslims probed by police after group of British women assaulted in Spain*
> *A GANG of French Muslims have been probed by police after a group of British women holidaymakers were assaulted at a popular Spanish tourist resort.*
> By GERARD COUZENS
> PUBLISHED: 14:20, Thu, Aug 25, 2016 | UPDATED: 14:21, Thu, Aug 25, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GETTY
> 
> Puerto Banus is southwest of Marbella, Spain on the Costa del Sol
> One woman, a 19-year-old from Farnborough in Hampshire, suffered a broken nose after being punched in the face.
> 
> A second woman, a 20-year-old from Essex, was taken to hospital semi-conscious with arm and head injuries.
> 
> Witnesses claimed the men, French-born but of Arabic origin, began to attack the young women in the upmarket resort of Puerto Banus near Marbella after one tried to touch up the teenager who suffered the broken nose.
> 
> One man was arrested for assault and three friends taken with him to a nearby police station so they could be identified as part of an ongoing investigation. ...
> 
> Gang of French Muslims probed by police after group of British women assaulted in Spain
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wait this article says that Muslims are in the wrong......   Must be a fake article from a hate site
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You'd have a point if anyone was saying it never occurred, but they aren't.  There are always violent crimes, crimes against women, gang activity and assaults.   The question is - is it the  "rape epidemic" that is being claimed?  Sure you can find dozens of individual articles on individual events.  I can pull up many articles of crimes and assaults where the perpetrators weren't "arabic looking men".  Crime does occur.  But is it occuring out of proportion to prior  trends?
Click to expand...


In Germany, yes. 

Where it used to be one of the safest places to walk around. Even as a woman, and late at night.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Coyote said:


> None.



Now that's a lie. Muhammad himself approved of rape and used it as reward for his thugs.

You ignorantly posted on it yesterday.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Mindful said:


> [
> 
> 
> In Germany, yes.
> 
> Where it used to be one of the safest places to walk around. Even as a woman, and late at night.



Ain't multiculturalism grand?


----------



## Tilly

Uncensored2008 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> 
> Was it lack of self worth that caused you to select a discredited poll from a hate site over the reputable sources you normally use or is it simply that your pathological hatred of all Muslims, even Americans, has created a total breakdown in your integrity and honesty?
> 
> Not that I expect an honest answer from you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which hate site did he use? DailyKOS? ThinkProgress? Alternet? Democratic Underground? MoveOn?
> 
> All that hatred has a common source...
Click to expand...

It 'debunked' Dogmaphobes poll by using the Georgetown / Cair / Saudi bought and paid for radical Islamist apologists such as Esposito. Lol.


----------



## Mindful

Uncensored2008 said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> 
> In Germany, yes.
> 
> Where it used to be one of the safest places to walk around. Even as a woman, and late at night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ain't multiculturalism grand?
Click to expand...


The only country that's gone some way to achieving that aim is Great Britain.

Apart from the US.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Tilly said:


> ]
> It 'debunked' Dogmaphobes poll by using the Georgetown / Cair / Saudi bought and paid for radical Islamist apologists such as Esposito. Lol.



I know.

I'm just driving home the fact that Coyote uses hate sites all the time. A good chunk of the shit she posts comes from Soros funded hate sites.


----------



## Tilly

Uncensored2008 said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> ]
> It 'debunked' Dogmaphobes poll by using the Georgetown / Cair / Saudi bought and paid for radical Islamist apologists such as Esposito. Lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know.
> 
> I'm just driving home the fact that Coyote uses hate sites all the time. A good chunk of the shit she posts comes from Soros funded hate sites.
Click to expand...

I agree. Its hypocrisy knows no bounds. She doesn't get hounded for it though. I really think she should stop with the hounding and spamming the thread with this crap. I do wish she could get a grip.


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please, you know damn well you guys don't give a damn about rape, or other abusive crimes against women and girls such as child marriages UNLESS Muslims are involved
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to test than theory and post a thread about a story of a pedo rapist and see what happens .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a list of threads involving abusive practices to women, rape, child rape, etc.  Feel free to join in.  Most didn't get much attention.
> 
> Ex-Employee Leaks Details About Refugee Abuse On Nauru
> Child Marriages
> Rape
> Worst Places for Women
> For India's Widows, A Riot Of Color, An Act Of Liberation
> Congolese Doctor Denis Mukwege Receives Sakharov Prize
> In Congo, Trapped In Violence And Forgotten
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I will check these as I go.    But if you are looking for sympathy for anyone who chooses not to live right then you are barking up the wrong tree.
> 
> I would shut borders from any place that oppresses women and/or children.       I think we need less of these people and more of the people who know how to live right.
> 
> My sister in law lives in Belarus and she would be a much better addition to any western country than anyone from the Middle East outside of Israel.   But she refuses to enter any country by hook or crook.
> 
> If you want to discuss immigration policy then I would take a page from the US immigration 1924 and limit each country to 3% yearly of the foreign born population of legal citizens.       I would block the Middle East and Central America.   One being at war with Islamic terrorism and Central America for the purpose to allow us to work through all the current illegals in this country.   Given most are from Central America.    A 10 year hold on immigration from these parts should allow us to catch up and tackle the current illegals.    After we round up any of them who have had a felony and deported them immediately.
> 
> Immigration should be a slow and steady drip so they can assimilate to our nation and our cultural beliefs since they are moving to be part of our culture.
> 
> I love the Australian point system for immigration.   If you are not familiar then I encourage you to familiarize yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> In light of your feelings about the oppression of women, you might want to rethink whether you want to bring in people from Belarus...
> 
> Empowering Belarusian Women to Combat Domestic Violence
> _Every fourth woman in Belarus has been physically abused by her partner. Just in the last three months, 24 Belarusians have died as a result of domestic violence, a 41% increase from last year.
> 
> 
> For decades, impunity for such abuse has persisted in Belarus, a country with a traditional view on a women’s place in society and a troublesome human rights record for both men and women. Domestic violence is finally becoming a public issue and preventative and punitive measures are being taken...
> 
> ...A typical Belarusian domestic bully is a man in his thirties or forties, intoxicated and unemployed, according to Oleg Karazei, Head of the Prevention Office of the Central Department for Law Enforcement and Prevention of the Belarusian Interior Ministry. Thus, a high level of alcohol consumption, economic problems, and the lower status of women may contribute to the high prevalence of domestic violence in Belarus._
> 
> _*The Role of Culture and Gender Roles*
> 
> 
> Most important, the prevalence of domestic violence correlates with the status of women and cultural norms regarding gender roles. On the one hand, the law treats women and men in Belarus equally. The country has acceded to all major relevant international conventions related to the rights of women, including the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women (Women’s Convention) and  its Optional Protocol.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, discrimination against women on the job market and the so-called “glass ceiling” remain prevalent. Patriarchal notions of a woman's role in the family pervade the social and political sphere. Belarusian women are largely responsible for child upbringing, and President Lukashenka himself views women primarily as “keepers of hearth and home". For example, in 2010 he said, "It is undeniable that the Lord has ordained a woman to be a mother. Regardless of a woman's career, she has to care for her children. I want our women to give birth to at least three children."
> 
> 
> Gender stereotypes make violence easier to justify and can prevent women from reporting abuse. Cultural norms play a large role in the way women choose to respond to violence. Women in Belarus, as well as in other post-Soviet states, are expected "not to wash their dirty laundry in public"._​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I can only assume this was supposed to be your "gotcha" post showing me that Belarusian women are victims as well.     Not sure what point you were trying to make especially when i said my sister in law.   Now I should make sure that you know that sister in law means a woman.   She isnt one of those trannies or delusional pretenders.   An actual real life woman here.....
> 
> I am really not sure what point you are trying to make.   That men who drink get into violent fits and pick on someone weaker than them?   Belarusian culture doesn't oppress women.   They are equals in society....
> 
> This was interesting...
> 
> 
> _*..A typical Belarusian domestic bully is a man in his thirties or forties, intoxicated and unemployed, according to Oleg Karazei, Head of the Prevention Office of the Central Department for Law Enforcement and Prevention of the Belarusian Interior Ministry. Thus, a high level of alcohol consumption, economic problems, and the lower status of women may contribute to the high prevalence of domestic violence in Belarus.*_
> 
> You know what we didnt see in there.......  Their religion telling them its ok and permitted to abuse, rape, or assault their women.   They have drinking problem when it comes to violence at home.    Not a religion problem.    Same as we have here.....
Click to expand...


Culture has more to do with how men interact with women then religion alone, and that is evident by how the faith is practiced in different areas around the world.

Belarus, as a whole seems pretty religious and dominated by the Belarusian Orthodox Church - conservative religious institutions that promote a  conservative view of the role of women and men and the idea that men are over women, which can be and has been used to justify abuse.   The article I quoted pointed out the inferior status of women in that culture as a ongoing issue in domestic abuse.  Where do you suppose that status comes from?  It comes from the church.  The countries where women enjoy the greatest rights and freedoms, and laws that protect them from violence are typically the most secular in their religious practices.


----------



## Coyote

Tilly said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> 
> Was it lack of self worth that caused you to select a discredited poll from a hate site over the reputable sources you normally use or is it simply that your pathological hatred of all Muslims, even Americans, has created a total breakdown in your integrity and honesty?
> 
> Not that I expect an honest answer from you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which hate site did he use? DailyKOS? ThinkProgress? Alternet? Democratic Underground? MoveOn?
> 
> All that hatred has a common source...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It 'debunked' Dogmaphobes poll by using the Georgetown / Cair / Saudi bought and paid for radical Islamist apologists such as Esposito. Lol.
Click to expand...


I suggest you utilize your reading skills and look at the other links I provided which debunked the poll.


So, here's a question for you (if you have the guts to answer it).  Pew is a well respected source, respected by both sides of the partisan divide as being non-partisan.  It is not Cair/Saudi etc.  Your boyfriend has used it multiple times to provide information on Muslim views around the world.  Pew also has information on the views of American Muslims.  Yet he chose to use a discredited poll from a hate site instead.  A poll that portrayed American Muslims extremely badly.  Why is Pew "good enough" for international Muslim views but suddenly not "good enough" for American Muslim views?

Why?  And, why would *you *support that Tilly?


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote what is your fascination with Islam and these migrants?
> 
> It seems you desperately want to make every known excuse in the book for them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One.  I'm not making excuses.  Name one excuse I've given for rape, or any other violent behavior.  I want the truth.  What is the truth?  What are the facts when you strip emotional hype and fear?
> 
> Fear drives us to unspeakable things to our fellow people.
> 
> My fascination is less with Islam then it is with scapegoating and broadbrushing an entire group of people and right now, it's acceptable to scapegoat Muslims broadly and completely, with out regard to whether it's conspiracy theory, the actions of a few, or hype over fact.  Seems to be me any right thinking person should be concerned when a group gets scapegoated.  We don't tolerate it when it's Jews or Blacks do we?  How do our resident racists/anti-semites get treated?  Not with respect.  But when it comes to Muslims, it's the broad brush and if you question it, ask for facts, you are labeled.
> 
> I'll give an example.  Why do I press Dogma on the issue of a poll?  Because, in a thread on American Muslims, he wanted to show that American Muslims are just as violent, extremist, intolerant, etc as he views Muslims in other countries.  Previously he had used Pew, a well respected non-partisan source for views of Muslims around the world towards Sharia, apostacy, homosexuality and women's rights.  So did he use Pew in this thread?  No.  He chose a poll that who's methodology is roundly criticized and debunked, from a site widely considered way out there by many, and a hate site, who's results purported to show something like over 50% suppported religous violence and Sharia as law of the land, or something.  This completely contradicted Pew, which showed American Muslims are largely the same as other demographic groups in America in their opinions towards seperation of religion and state, violence, homosexuality, and women's rights.  So, Pew is "good enough" for worldwide opinion but suddenly not "good enough" for American Muslim opinion?  When a person deliberately chooses to use something from a disreputable site over something from a reputable site - I think it's reasonable to ask "why" and what are the motivations?
> 
> My "fascination" with migrants and refugees is because they are PEOPLE, living, breathing people who have gone through horrendous experiences in an attempt to escape what are often desperate situations.  It takes a particular desperation and courage to do that, and the death toll in those sea voyages and at the hands of traffickers is very high.  We tend to forget they are human beings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. This entire thread is about a conspiracy against Muslims.  This is an excuse to the media reports of them rapefugees.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Conspiracy theories aren't backed by data or facts.  My thread's OP is backed by crime statistics over a period of time.  The same sort of crime statistics, I might add, that are perfectly acceptable under other circumstances.  The fact that you refer to refugees/migrants as whole as "rapefugees" pretty much supports my position.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. On broad stroking a group of people....   If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck... It's a duck.
> 
> Muslims worldwide share the belief in oppression of women and children.   Not all rape away in praise to Allah.    But they do support wearing oppressive garmets.
> 
> This is my biggest issue with Islam.    Their constant oppression, which has no place in western society.   Which is why I would shut the borders to them.   Until they had a reformation to remove these beliefs and teachings .   My wife is Russian orthodox and wears a scarf in church but only wears it in church.   She doesn't wear it everywhere .... She still believes in God and isn't any less of an orthodox because of this ....  How is this any different than a Muslim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There I disagree with you, because it assumes two things - that all Muslims adhere to the most conservative aspects of Islam, that they all believe in oppressing women, and that Islam is unchangeable.   Attitudes towards women vary according to the culture of the people who practice that faith.  For example - look at FGM.  It's most prevalent in N. Africa, and in the countries where it is still practiced, it is done by Christian, Animaist and Muslims alike.  Yet, in other Muslim majority countries it is unheard of.  There is nothing in Islam itself that demands it - it's a cultural legacy.
> 
> Opinions of Muslims towards the role of women around the world may lag behind those of western countries, but within Western countries, like the US, Muslim opinions are in line with that of other demographic groups.
> 
> Muslims and Islam: Key findings in the U.S. and around the world
> 
> *What do American Muslims believe?*
> 
> _Our 2011 survey of Muslim Americans found that roughly half of U.S. Muslims (48%) say their own religious leaders have not done enough to speak out against Islamic extremists.
> 
> 
> Living in a religiously pluralistic society, Muslim Americans are more likely than Muslims in many other nations to have many non-Muslim friends. Only about half (48%) of U.S. Muslims say all or most of their close friends are also Muslims, compared with a global median of 95% in the 39 countries we surveyed.
> 
> 
> Roughly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (69%) say religion is very important in their lives. Virtually all (96%) say they believe in God, nearly two-thirds (65%) report praying at least daily and nearly half (47%) say they attend religious services at least weekly. By all of these traditional measures, Muslims in the U.S. are roughly as religious as U.S. Christians, although they are less religious than Muslims in many other nations.
> 
> 
> When it comes to political and social views, Muslims are far more likely to identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party (70%) than the Republican Party (11%) and to say they prefer a bigger government providing more services (68%) over a smaller government providing fewer services (21%). As of 2011, U.S. Muslims were somewhat split between those who said homosexuality should be accepted by society (39%) and those who said it should be discouraged (45%), although the group had grown considerably more accepting of homosexuality since a similar survey was conducted in 2007._​
> Section 5: Political Opinions and Social Values
> _Muslim Americans show strong support for allowing women to join the workforce. Nine-in-ten either completely (72%) or mostly agree (18%) that women should be able to work outside the home. Among the U.S. general public, almost all either completely (81%) or mostly (16%) agree with this.
> 
> Attitudes among Muslim Americans are similar to attitudes among Muslims in Lebanon and Turkey. But support for women working outside the home is considerably smaller in many other Muslim nations. For example, in Egypt, only about six-in-ten say they either completely agree (23%) or mostly agree (39%) that women should be allowed to work outside the home. About four-in-ten (39%) disagree.
> 
> Nearly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (68%) say gender makes no difference in the quality of political leaders. Still, about a quarter (27%) say men make better political leaders. Very few (4%) say women make better leaders. There are only slight differences in views on this between men and women and among various age groups. Among the U.S. public, 72% say gender does not determine who will be the better political leader. About one-in-ten each say men (12%) or women (13%) make better lead
> 
> _​
> 
> 
> 
> 3. How you treat other posters is of no concern to me in this discussion.   That is between you and them.     I am more concerned with the topic and not a side argument over past threads.
> 
> 4. So you would be willing to take on any people as long as they can make it here?
> 
> This type of belief is just not feasible in our society.    If we didn't have any social benefits then possibly....   But we  just can afford adding people from the 3rd world.    Not to mention the harm it would do our culture to be flooded with 3rd worlders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I would not be willing to take on any people.  I would not take those convicted of violent crimes for example.  I'm not "open borders".  I think there should be a good vetting process for people from certain countries and we do need to have limits.  I don't think it's because of our social benefits system, since few tend to utilize them, and when they do it's not for long.  Most want to work.
> 
> The question I have though, is that your argument - " the harm it would do our culture to be flooded with 3rd worlders" - is the same argument that has been applied to many other immigrant groups over successive waves of immigration: Irish, Chinese, East European Jews, Italians etc. and the sky never fell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it's not courageous for fighting aged men to flee the fight to go to the west.     Were you also cheering on the guy in titanic who got on the lifeboat ahead of women and children?    Was he courageous?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think it is that black and white.  Many of those "fighting age men" are not - they're just men, and there is no breakdown in ages in the data.  There is also considerable differences in the different groups.  For migrants and refugees trying to make it to Europe, 53% are men, with no age breakdown.
> 
> That  number includes all migrants.  However, the number of Syrian refugees overall, is dominated by women and children, most of whom are in the camps.
> 
> I don't consider it comparable to the life boat situation because I can see why men would go first.  The journey is tremendously dangerous, with a high mortality rate and an uncertain future.  The family is usually left in relative safety by comparison. While the conditions are bad in the refugee camps, at least they aren't being straffed by barrel bombs or sold as sex slaves by ISIS.  I would think it would be the men who would take the risks to try and establish themselves and bring their families over.
> 
> I've heard the argument before that these men are cowardly and should stay and fight.  My response is this - who are we to judge them when we do not walk in their shoes?  Listening to interviews with refugees from the Syrian conflict - what they and their families have been through is horrendous.  It's a war with no clear sides and horrible atrocities perpetrated on civilians.   It's not a new argument.  In fact, the same arguments were made in taking Jewish refugees during the holocaust.  Some countries that were willing to take them, would only take the children.  So desperate parents sent their children to try and save them.  And of course, the parents died.  In a conflict like Syria - I wouldn't judge the men.  That's different than the migrants though, but even then - they are fleeing different things so you can't just broadly judge it, it's case by case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for being human beings....    If they are brought up to believe In oppression and rape of women and children....  Just how human are they?    Sounds more like how animals believe....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just how human are they?  Very.
> 
> You assume they are all rapists and abusers regardless of background, education, culture and individuality.  I disagree with that assumption.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All We have is all these personal accounts of women who have been raped and sexually assaulted by Arab and African men.   Migrants are African and Arab.
> 
> What's odd is that you take these personal accounts and dismiss them.
> 
> Even if you live at the holy altar of government crime stats.  Where there is smoke there is fire.   Unless you think these women are making stuff up?
> 
> Probably should consider that Sweden stopped charting gang rape stats in 2006 because it was rising.     Stats are kept to make police efforts look better.     There has been a long Muslim problem in Sweden for a time.   Same as Finland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, what we have are personal accounts that actually include few rapes, lots of sexual harrassment and assault claims.
> 
> I frankly think that the claim "where there is smoke there is fire" is a bad thing to go by.  It can ruin innocent people's lives and reputations.  Personal testimonials are iffy as reliable unless they are investigated.   If you think Sweden stopped charting crime stats in 2006, then offer some evidence for it.  Personally my thought is that a ten year conspiracy of silence and deliberate hiding of crime statistics throughout an entire nation, in a society as open as Sweden's would be difficult to pull off and not very believable.
> 
> I'm not outright dismissing claims - I'm saying  all claims should be investigated and some have been verified and even arrests made.  But I'm skeptical because there is a mass hysteria aspect to it that is not reflected in official crime rates.  When you couple that with increased xenophobia, a rise in rightwing nationalism and anti-immigrant sentiment overall that is looking for scapegoats, then any reasonable person should be careful of jumping to conclusions.  There are two things you can always count on to anger and mobilize a population:  outsiders raping their women and sexually abusing children and that occurs in every culture.
> 
> I mentioned earlier examples with attitudes of whites towards black men during Jim Crowe, and how innocent men were lynched for just looking at a white woman wrong.  A more recent example involves sexual abuse of children.  Some years ago...maybe the 80's or 90's?....there was a rash of claims of sexual abuse of children in daycares.  There was a fairly  new psychiatric method by which they interviewed extremely young children, I'm thinking as young as 1-2, barely verbal, and got them to give information leading them to believe the child had been molested.  The method was controversial and untested, there was no physical evidence supporting it, but it was used to charge people and take them to court.  The result was massive hysteria, news coverage, etc and parents wanting their children examined.  The outcome of it was, few convictions, I think, but also people subsequently found innocent, their lives completely ruined because of the "where there's smoke there's fire" and it led to descrediting of that particular pschological tool.  So, were these kids being molested?  In some cases, I'm sure they were.  In others, not.  But the hysteria that just the possibility it could have occurred created a mood that pushed events faster than they could be investigated responsibly, and into the court of public opinion.
> 
> That is why I'm skeptical of claims of "mass rapes on white women" and "sexual jihad".  And, I also suspect that now someone is going to claim I support abuse of children.
Click to expand...



Muslims covet blue eyed and blonde Haired women.  Even back to the days of their fights with the Byzantines.    

now this will force a change of topic of we are going down the history of "rape jihad".  I know you don't like the phrase but it actually has historical relevance.         I am quite sure that not all that use it today understand that history but it doesn't change the facts.     

Does it bother you because it sounds violent and terrible?   Or do you actually believe that Muslims aren't told to wage war with other religions in the race to spread their beliefs around the globe.


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## Coyote

Uncensored2008 said:


> Tilly said:
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> ]
> It 'debunked' Dogmaphobes poll by using the Georgetown / Cair / Saudi bought and paid for radical Islamist apologists such as Esposito. Lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know.
> 
> I'm just driving home the fact that Coyote uses hate sites all the time. A good chunk of the shit she posts comes from Soros funded hate sites.
Click to expand...


Pew is a Soros funded hate site?


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## Uncensored2008

Coyote said:


> [
> 
> Pew is a Soros funded hate site?



I don't recall saying that, got a link?


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## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> StLucieBengal said:
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> Feel free to test than theory and post a thread about a story of a pedo rapist and see what happens .
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Here is a list of threads involving abusive practices to women, rape, child rape, etc.  Feel free to join in.  Most didn't get much attention.
> 
> Ex-Employee Leaks Details About Refugee Abuse On Nauru
> Child Marriages
> Rape
> Worst Places for Women
> For India's Widows, A Riot Of Color, An Act Of Liberation
> Congolese Doctor Denis Mukwege Receives Sakharov Prize
> In Congo, Trapped In Violence And Forgotten
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I will check these as I go.    But if you are looking for sympathy for anyone who chooses not to live right then you are barking up the wrong tree.
> 
> I would shut borders from any place that oppresses women and/or children.       I think we need less of these people and more of the people who know how to live right.
> 
> My sister in law lives in Belarus and she would be a much better addition to any western country than anyone from the Middle East outside of Israel.   But she refuses to enter any country by hook or crook.
> 
> If you want to discuss immigration policy then I would take a page from the US immigration 1924 and limit each country to 3% yearly of the foreign born population of legal citizens.       I would block the Middle East and Central America.   One being at war with Islamic terrorism and Central America for the purpose to allow us to work through all the current illegals in this country.   Given most are from Central America.    A 10 year hold on immigration from these parts should allow us to catch up and tackle the current illegals.    After we round up any of them who have had a felony and deported them immediately.
> 
> Immigration should be a slow and steady drip so they can assimilate to our nation and our cultural beliefs since they are moving to be part of our culture.
> 
> I love the Australian point system for immigration.   If you are not familiar then I encourage you to familiarize yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> In light of your feelings about the oppression of women, you might want to rethink whether you want to bring in people from Belarus...
> 
> Empowering Belarusian Women to Combat Domestic Violence
> _Every fourth woman in Belarus has been physically abused by her partner. Just in the last three months, 24 Belarusians have died as a result of domestic violence, a 41% increase from last year.
> 
> 
> For decades, impunity for such abuse has persisted in Belarus, a country with a traditional view on a women’s place in society and a troublesome human rights record for both men and women. Domestic violence is finally becoming a public issue and preventative and punitive measures are being taken...
> 
> ...A typical Belarusian domestic bully is a man in his thirties or forties, intoxicated and unemployed, according to Oleg Karazei, Head of the Prevention Office of the Central Department for Law Enforcement and Prevention of the Belarusian Interior Ministry. Thus, a high level of alcohol consumption, economic problems, and the lower status of women may contribute to the high prevalence of domestic violence in Belarus._
> 
> _*The Role of Culture and Gender Roles*
> 
> 
> Most important, the prevalence of domestic violence correlates with the status of women and cultural norms regarding gender roles. On the one hand, the law treats women and men in Belarus equally. The country has acceded to all major relevant international conventions related to the rights of women, including the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women (Women’s Convention) and  its Optional Protocol.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, discrimination against women on the job market and the so-called “glass ceiling” remain prevalent. Patriarchal notions of a woman's role in the family pervade the social and political sphere. Belarusian women are largely responsible for child upbringing, and President Lukashenka himself views women primarily as “keepers of hearth and home". For example, in 2010 he said, "It is undeniable that the Lord has ordained a woman to be a mother. Regardless of a woman's career, she has to care for her children. I want our women to give birth to at least three children."
> 
> 
> Gender stereotypes make violence easier to justify and can prevent women from reporting abuse. Cultural norms play a large role in the way women choose to respond to violence. Women in Belarus, as well as in other post-Soviet states, are expected "not to wash their dirty laundry in public"._​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I can only assume this was supposed to be your "gotcha" post showing me that Belarusian women are victims as well.     Not sure what point you were trying to make especially when i said my sister in law.   Now I should make sure that you know that sister in law means a woman.   She isnt one of those trannies or delusional pretenders.   An actual real life woman here.....
> 
> I am really not sure what point you are trying to make.   That men who drink get into violent fits and pick on someone weaker than them?   Belarusian culture doesn't oppress women.   They are equals in society....
> 
> This was interesting...
> 
> 
> _*..A typical Belarusian domestic bully is a man in his thirties or forties, intoxicated and unemployed, according to Oleg Karazei, Head of the Prevention Office of the Central Department for Law Enforcement and Prevention of the Belarusian Interior Ministry. Thus, a high level of alcohol consumption, economic problems, and the lower status of women may contribute to the high prevalence of domestic violence in Belarus.*_
> 
> You know what we didnt see in there.......  Their religion telling them its ok and permitted to abuse, rape, or assault their women.   They have drinking problem when it comes to violence at home.    Not a religion problem.    Same as we have here.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Culture has more to do with how men interact with women then religion alone, and that is evident by how the faith is practiced in different areas around the world.
> 
> Belarus, as a whole seems pretty religious and dominated by the Belarusian Orthodox Church - conservative religious institutions that promote a  conservative view of the role of women and men and the idea that men are over women, which can be and has been used to justify abuse.   The article I quoted pointed out the inferior status of women in that culture as a ongoing issue in domestic abuse.  Where do you suppose that status comes from?  It comes from the church.  The countries where women enjoy the greatest rights and freedoms, and laws that protect them from violence are typically the most secular in their religious practices.
Click to expand...


actually Russian orthodox is a lot like being old school Catholic.    There is zero oppression.   

Are you insinuating that being a homemaker makes you oppressed?   I realize you are trying to make a parallel to Muslims .... But I have never mentioned or said being a homemaker was a problem.   

Are Russian orthodox women forced to wear an oppressive shroud or face a beating?     No.

A woman wanting to be a mother is never oppressive.   It's a beautiful thing that gets dismissed too easily in our society today.    We need more of this belief instead of the feminism that has pushed girls away from motherhood.     

If Muslims brought this to the table without all the violence, rape, and oppression then it would be a welcome site.     

This is what the Former soviet states culture brings.    Those girls work tiressly in their job and at home.


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## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
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> One.  I'm not making excuses.  Name one excuse I've given for rape, or any other violent behavior.  I want the truth.  What is the truth?  What are the facts when you strip emotional hype and fear?
> 
> Fear drives us to unspeakable things to our fellow people.
> 
> My fascination is less with Islam then it is with scapegoating and broadbrushing an entire group of people and right now, it's acceptable to scapegoat Muslims broadly and completely, with out regard to whether it's conspiracy theory, the actions of a few, or hype over fact.  Seems to be me any right thinking person should be concerned when a group gets scapegoated.  We don't tolerate it when it's Jews or Blacks do we?  How do our resident racists/anti-semites get treated?  Not with respect.  But when it comes to Muslims, it's the broad brush and if you question it, ask for facts, you are labeled.
> 
> I'll give an example.  Why do I press Dogma on the issue of a poll?  Because, in a thread on American Muslims, he wanted to show that American Muslims are just as violent, extremist, intolerant, etc as he views Muslims in other countries.  Previously he had used Pew, a well respected non-partisan source for views of Muslims around the world towards Sharia, apostacy, homosexuality and women's rights.  So did he use Pew in this thread?  No.  He chose a poll that who's methodology is roundly criticized and debunked, from a site widely considered way out there by many, and a hate site, who's results purported to show something like over 50% suppported religous violence and Sharia as law of the land, or something.  This completely contradicted Pew, which showed American Muslims are largely the same as other demographic groups in America in their opinions towards seperation of religion and state, violence, homosexuality, and women's rights.  So, Pew is "good enough" for worldwide opinion but suddenly not "good enough" for American Muslim opinion?  When a person deliberately chooses to use something from a disreputable site over something from a reputable site - I think it's reasonable to ask "why" and what are the motivations?
> 
> My "fascination" with migrants and refugees is because they are PEOPLE, living, breathing people who have gone through horrendous experiences in an attempt to escape what are often desperate situations.  It takes a particular desperation and courage to do that, and the death toll in those sea voyages and at the hands of traffickers is very high.  We tend to forget they are human beings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. This entire thread is about a conspiracy against Muslims.  This is an excuse to the media reports of them rapefugees.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Conspiracy theories aren't backed by data or facts.  My thread's OP is backed by crime statistics over a period of time.  The same sort of crime statistics, I might add, that are perfectly acceptable under other circumstances.  The fact that you refer to refugees/migrants as whole as "rapefugees" pretty much supports my position.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. On broad stroking a group of people....   If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck... It's a duck.
> 
> Muslims worldwide share the belief in oppression of women and children.   Not all rape away in praise to Allah.    But they do support wearing oppressive garmets.
> 
> This is my biggest issue with Islam.    Their constant oppression, which has no place in western society.   Which is why I would shut the borders to them.   Until they had a reformation to remove these beliefs and teachings .   My wife is Russian orthodox and wears a scarf in church but only wears it in church.   She doesn't wear it everywhere .... She still believes in God and isn't any less of an orthodox because of this ....  How is this any different than a Muslim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There I disagree with you, because it assumes two things - that all Muslims adhere to the most conservative aspects of Islam, that they all believe in oppressing women, and that Islam is unchangeable.   Attitudes towards women vary according to the culture of the people who practice that faith.  For example - look at FGM.  It's most prevalent in N. Africa, and in the countries where it is still practiced, it is done by Christian, Animaist and Muslims alike.  Yet, in other Muslim majority countries it is unheard of.  There is nothing in Islam itself that demands it - it's a cultural legacy.
> 
> Opinions of Muslims towards the role of women around the world may lag behind those of western countries, but within Western countries, like the US, Muslim opinions are in line with that of other demographic groups.
> 
> Muslims and Islam: Key findings in the U.S. and around the world
> 
> *What do American Muslims believe?*
> 
> _Our 2011 survey of Muslim Americans found that roughly half of U.S. Muslims (48%) say their own religious leaders have not done enough to speak out against Islamic extremists.
> 
> 
> Living in a religiously pluralistic society, Muslim Americans are more likely than Muslims in many other nations to have many non-Muslim friends. Only about half (48%) of U.S. Muslims say all or most of their close friends are also Muslims, compared with a global median of 95% in the 39 countries we surveyed.
> 
> 
> Roughly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (69%) say religion is very important in their lives. Virtually all (96%) say they believe in God, nearly two-thirds (65%) report praying at least daily and nearly half (47%) say they attend religious services at least weekly. By all of these traditional measures, Muslims in the U.S. are roughly as religious as U.S. Christians, although they are less religious than Muslims in many other nations.
> 
> 
> When it comes to political and social views, Muslims are far more likely to identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party (70%) than the Republican Party (11%) and to say they prefer a bigger government providing more services (68%) over a smaller government providing fewer services (21%). As of 2011, U.S. Muslims were somewhat split between those who said homosexuality should be accepted by society (39%) and those who said it should be discouraged (45%), although the group had grown considerably more accepting of homosexuality since a similar survey was conducted in 2007._​
> Section 5: Political Opinions and Social Values
> _Muslim Americans show strong support for allowing women to join the workforce. Nine-in-ten either completely (72%) or mostly agree (18%) that women should be able to work outside the home. Among the U.S. general public, almost all either completely (81%) or mostly (16%) agree with this.
> 
> Attitudes among Muslim Americans are similar to attitudes among Muslims in Lebanon and Turkey. But support for women working outside the home is considerably smaller in many other Muslim nations. For example, in Egypt, only about six-in-ten say they either completely agree (23%) or mostly agree (39%) that women should be allowed to work outside the home. About four-in-ten (39%) disagree.
> 
> Nearly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (68%) say gender makes no difference in the quality of political leaders. Still, about a quarter (27%) say men make better political leaders. Very few (4%) say women make better leaders. There are only slight differences in views on this between men and women and among various age groups. Among the U.S. public, 72% say gender does not determine who will be the better political leader. About one-in-ten each say men (12%) or women (13%) make better lead
> 
> _​
> 
> 
> 
> 3. How you treat other posters is of no concern to me in this discussion.   That is between you and them.     I am more concerned with the topic and not a side argument over past threads.
> 
> 4. So you would be willing to take on any people as long as they can make it here?
> 
> This type of belief is just not feasible in our society.    If we didn't have any social benefits then possibly....   But we  just can afford adding people from the 3rd world.    Not to mention the harm it would do our culture to be flooded with 3rd worlders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I would not be willing to take on any people.  I would not take those convicted of violent crimes for example.  I'm not "open borders".  I think there should be a good vetting process for people from certain countries and we do need to have limits.  I don't think it's because of our social benefits system, since few tend to utilize them, and when they do it's not for long.  Most want to work.
> 
> The question I have though, is that your argument - " the harm it would do our culture to be flooded with 3rd worlders" - is the same argument that has been applied to many other immigrant groups over successive waves of immigration: Irish, Chinese, East European Jews, Italians etc. and the sky never fell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it's not courageous for fighting aged men to flee the fight to go to the west.     Were you also cheering on the guy in titanic who got on the lifeboat ahead of women and children?    Was he courageous?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think it is that black and white.  Many of those "fighting age men" are not - they're just men, and there is no breakdown in ages in the data.  There is also considerable differences in the different groups.  For migrants and refugees trying to make it to Europe, 53% are men, with no age breakdown.
> 
> That  number includes all migrants.  However, the number of Syrian refugees overall, is dominated by women and children, most of whom are in the camps.
> 
> I don't consider it comparable to the life boat situation because I can see why men would go first.  The journey is tremendously dangerous, with a high mortality rate and an uncertain future.  The family is usually left in relative safety by comparison. While the conditions are bad in the refugee camps, at least they aren't being straffed by barrel bombs or sold as sex slaves by ISIS.  I would think it would be the men who would take the risks to try and establish themselves and bring their families over.
> 
> I've heard the argument before that these men are cowardly and should stay and fight.  My response is this - who are we to judge them when we do not walk in their shoes?  Listening to interviews with refugees from the Syrian conflict - what they and their families have been through is horrendous.  It's a war with no clear sides and horrible atrocities perpetrated on civilians.   It's not a new argument.  In fact, the same arguments were made in taking Jewish refugees during the holocaust.  Some countries that were willing to take them, would only take the children.  So desperate parents sent their children to try and save them.  And of course, the parents died.  In a conflict like Syria - I wouldn't judge the men.  That's different than the migrants though, but even then - they are fleeing different things so you can't just broadly judge it, it's case by case.
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> As for being human beings....    If they are brought up to believe In oppression and rape of women and children....  Just how human are they?    Sounds more like how animals believe....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just how human are they?  Very.
> 
> You assume they are all rapists and abusers regardless of background, education, culture and individuality.  I disagree with that assumption.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All We have is all these personal accounts of women who have been raped and sexually assaulted by Arab and African men.   Migrants are African and Arab.
> 
> What's odd is that you take these personal accounts and dismiss them.
> 
> Even if you live at the holy altar of government crime stats.  Where there is smoke there is fire.   Unless you think these women are making stuff up?
> 
> Probably should consider that Sweden stopped charting gang rape stats in 2006 because it was rising.     Stats are kept to make police efforts look better.     There has been a long Muslim problem in Sweden for a time.   Same as Finland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, what we have are personal accounts that actually include few rapes, lots of sexual harrassment and assault claims.
> 
> I frankly think that the claim "where there is smoke there is fire" is a bad thing to go by.  It can ruin innocent people's lives and reputations.  Personal testimonials are iffy as reliable unless they are investigated.   If you think Sweden stopped charting crime stats in 2006, then offer some evidence for it.  Personally my thought is that a ten year conspiracy of silence and deliberate hiding of crime statistics throughout an entire nation, in a society as open as Sweden's would be difficult to pull off and not very believable.
> 
> I'm not outright dismissing claims - I'm saying  all claims should be investigated and some have been verified and even arrests made.  But I'm skeptical because there is a mass hysteria aspect to it that is not reflected in official crime rates.  When you couple that with increased xenophobia, a rise in rightwing nationalism and anti-immigrant sentiment overall that is looking for scapegoats, then any reasonable person should be careful of jumping to conclusions.  There are two things you can always count on to anger and mobilize a population:  outsiders raping their women and sexually abusing children and that occurs in every culture.
> 
> I mentioned earlier examples with attitudes of whites towards black men during Jim Crowe, and how innocent men were lynched for just looking at a white woman wrong.  A more recent example involves sexual abuse of children.  Some years ago...maybe the 80's or 90's?....there was a rash of claims of sexual abuse of children in daycares.  There was a fairly  new psychiatric method by which they interviewed extremely young children, I'm thinking as young as 1-2, barely verbal, and got them to give information leading them to believe the child had been molested.  The method was controversial and untested, there was no physical evidence supporting it, but it was used to charge people and take them to court.  The result was massive hysteria, news coverage, etc and parents wanting their children examined.  The outcome of it was, few convictions, I think, but also people subsequently found innocent, their lives completely ruined because of the "where there's smoke there's fire" and it led to descrediting of that particular pschological tool.  So, were these kids being molested?  In some cases, I'm sure they were.  In others, not.  But the hysteria that just the possibility it could have occurred created a mood that pushed events faster than they could be investigated responsibly, and into the court of public opinion.
> 
> That is why I'm skeptical of claims of "mass rapes on white women" and "sexual jihad".  And, I also suspect that now someone is going to claim I support abuse of children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims covet blue eyed and blonde Haired women.  Even back to the days of their fights with the Byzantines.
Click to expand...


I'd like to see some actual emperical data on whether that is true this day and age.



> now this will force a change of topic of we are going down the history of "rape jihad".  I know you don't like the phrase but it actually has historical relevance.         I am quite sure that not all that use it today understand that history but it doesn't change the facts.
> 
> Does it bother you because it sounds violent and terrible?   Or do you actually believe that Muslims aren't told to wage war with other religions in the race to spread their beliefs around the globe.



Let's look at the facts then.  As I pointed, all cultures have used rape as a tool of war, and that is all "rape jihad" really is.  The religions that dominate the world today, Islam and Christianity, have both used war as a means of spreading their faith, as did Judaism in it's heyday.  Rape is talked about and permitted, within certain rules in both the OT and the Quran, though I think the Quran as a whole as more rules surrounding it then the OT which is more open ended.

Personally I think most Muslims are not told to "wage war with other religions in the race to spread their beliefs around the globe" and they'd probably laugh in your face if you told them that.


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## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
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> Coyote said:
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> Here is a list of threads involving abusive practices to women, rape, child rape, etc.  Feel free to join in.  Most didn't get much attention.
> 
> Ex-Employee Leaks Details About Refugee Abuse On Nauru
> Child Marriages
> Rape
> Worst Places for Women
> For India's Widows, A Riot Of Color, An Act Of Liberation
> Congolese Doctor Denis Mukwege Receives Sakharov Prize
> In Congo, Trapped In Violence And Forgotten
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will check these as I go.    But if you are looking for sympathy for anyone who chooses not to live right then you are barking up the wrong tree.
> 
> I would shut borders from any place that oppresses women and/or children.       I think we need less of these people and more of the people who know how to live right.
> 
> My sister in law lives in Belarus and she would be a much better addition to any western country than anyone from the Middle East outside of Israel.   But she refuses to enter any country by hook or crook.
> 
> If you want to discuss immigration policy then I would take a page from the US immigration 1924 and limit each country to 3% yearly of the foreign born population of legal citizens.       I would block the Middle East and Central America.   One being at war with Islamic terrorism and Central America for the purpose to allow us to work through all the current illegals in this country.   Given most are from Central America.    A 10 year hold on immigration from these parts should allow us to catch up and tackle the current illegals.    After we round up any of them who have had a felony and deported them immediately.
> 
> Immigration should be a slow and steady drip so they can assimilate to our nation and our cultural beliefs since they are moving to be part of our culture.
> 
> I love the Australian point system for immigration.   If you are not familiar then I encourage you to familiarize yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> In light of your feelings about the oppression of women, you might want to rethink whether you want to bring in people from Belarus...
> 
> Empowering Belarusian Women to Combat Domestic Violence
> _Every fourth woman in Belarus has been physically abused by her partner. Just in the last three months, 24 Belarusians have died as a result of domestic violence, a 41% increase from last year.
> 
> 
> For decades, impunity for such abuse has persisted in Belarus, a country with a traditional view on a women’s place in society and a troublesome human rights record for both men and women. Domestic violence is finally becoming a public issue and preventative and punitive measures are being taken...
> 
> ...A typical Belarusian domestic bully is a man in his thirties or forties, intoxicated and unemployed, according to Oleg Karazei, Head of the Prevention Office of the Central Department for Law Enforcement and Prevention of the Belarusian Interior Ministry. Thus, a high level of alcohol consumption, economic problems, and the lower status of women may contribute to the high prevalence of domestic violence in Belarus._
> 
> _*The Role of Culture and Gender Roles*
> 
> 
> Most important, the prevalence of domestic violence correlates with the status of women and cultural norms regarding gender roles. On the one hand, the law treats women and men in Belarus equally. The country has acceded to all major relevant international conventions related to the rights of women, including the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women (Women’s Convention) and  its Optional Protocol.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, discrimination against women on the job market and the so-called “glass ceiling” remain prevalent. Patriarchal notions of a woman's role in the family pervade the social and political sphere. Belarusian women are largely responsible for child upbringing, and President Lukashenka himself views women primarily as “keepers of hearth and home". For example, in 2010 he said, "It is undeniable that the Lord has ordained a woman to be a mother. Regardless of a woman's career, she has to care for her children. I want our women to give birth to at least three children."
> 
> 
> Gender stereotypes make violence easier to justify and can prevent women from reporting abuse. Cultural norms play a large role in the way women choose to respond to violence. Women in Belarus, as well as in other post-Soviet states, are expected "not to wash their dirty laundry in public"._​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I can only assume this was supposed to be your "gotcha" post showing me that Belarusian women are victims as well.     Not sure what point you were trying to make especially when i said my sister in law.   Now I should make sure that you know that sister in law means a woman.   She isnt one of those trannies or delusional pretenders.   An actual real life woman here.....
> 
> I am really not sure what point you are trying to make.   That men who drink get into violent fits and pick on someone weaker than them?   Belarusian culture doesn't oppress women.   They are equals in society....
> 
> This was interesting...
> 
> 
> _*..A typical Belarusian domestic bully is a man in his thirties or forties, intoxicated and unemployed, according to Oleg Karazei, Head of the Prevention Office of the Central Department for Law Enforcement and Prevention of the Belarusian Interior Ministry. Thus, a high level of alcohol consumption, economic problems, and the lower status of women may contribute to the high prevalence of domestic violence in Belarus.*_
> 
> You know what we didnt see in there.......  Their religion telling them its ok and permitted to abuse, rape, or assault their women.   They have drinking problem when it comes to violence at home.    Not a religion problem.    Same as we have here.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Culture has more to do with how men interact with women then religion alone, and that is evident by how the faith is practiced in different areas around the world.
> 
> Belarus, as a whole seems pretty religious and dominated by the Belarusian Orthodox Church - conservative religious institutions that promote a  conservative view of the role of women and men and the idea that men are over women, which can be and has been used to justify abuse.   The article I quoted pointed out the inferior status of women in that culture as a ongoing issue in domestic abuse.  Where do you suppose that status comes from?  It comes from the church.  The countries where women enjoy the greatest rights and freedoms, and laws that protect them from violence are typically the most secular in their religious practices.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> actually Russian orthodox is a lot like being old school Catholic.    There is zero oppression.
> 
> *Are you insinuating that being a homemaker makes you oppressed?   I realize you are trying to make a parallel to Muslims .... But I have never mentioned or said being a homemaker was a problem.    *
> 
> Are Russian orthodox women forced to wear an oppressive shroud or face a beating?     No.
Click to expand...


No, being a homemaker does not make you oppressed unless you have no choice.  Choice makes the difference.

Are Muslim women "forced to wear an oppressive shroud or face a beating?"  Not necessarily.  Depends on what culture they live in.

Are Orthodox Jews "forced to wear an oppressive shroud or face a beating?"

Removal of choice is what turns something into oppression and you seem to assume that most Muslim women do not have that choice.


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## Tilly

Poor woman.

*Attack victim claims police told her to dye hair*

Published: 06 May 2016 11:41 GMT+02:00








*A student attacked by a gang of four men has accused police of blaming her because she had blonde hair and sexy clothing.*
The incident happened when the young woman, identified only by her first name Sabina, who lives in the capital Vienna had been waiting for a train on the S6 line at the city's main Westbahnhof station.

The 20-year-old, who was hospitalised after the attack by four men in which she was beaten and robbed, told Heute newspaper: "I felt so helpless."

"I had been standing on the platform waiting for the train when a man came up to me and spoke to me in a foreign language. He then started putting his hands through my hair and made it clear that in his cultural background there were hardly any blonde women. I told him to go away, and for a short while he really did go away."

"But it was only to get his pals and a bit later he came back with three others. They stole my handbag and my cards."

And if that was not enough, she said that the four had then attacked her, bashing her to the ground in a rage before running off.

She said that from what they had said she understood they were from Afghanistan and that as she lay on the floor in agony nobody on the platform had helped.

After being treated at hospital for bruising to her head, shoulder and elbow as well as her spine and hips, she went to police.
*
And her distress had turned to anger when police had told her that she should change her hair colour and should not have been travelling alone after 8pm on public transport*.

She said: "At first I was scared, but now I'm more angry than anything. After the attack they told me that women shouldn't be alone on the streets after 8pm. And they also gave me other advice, telling me I should dye my hair dark and also not dress in such a provocative way. Indirectly that means I was partly to blame for what happened to me. That is a massive insult."

The girl who is studying acting said the police advice is going in the completely wrong direction.

She said she will now avoid huge crowds and for example this year will not be attending the popular music concert Danube Island Festival.

She said: "*The police told me that attacks are now a daily routine. And it's going to get worse."*

Asked what she would say if she saw the men that attacked again, she replied: "Nothing, I would simply spray pepper-spray in their faces


Attack victim claims police told her to dye hair


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## Tilly

When does the 'debunking' happen?


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## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> StLucieBengal said:
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> Coyote said:
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> 
> Rape has been a weapon of war since time immemorial.  Some fools seem to think it started with Islam.  They call it "rape jihad", a recently coined term that did not exist a few decades ago.  Perhaps these fools should check out the Old Testement, and see what it has to say about rape and war.  Is that "rape jihad" too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rape jihad didn't exist when they did it to the Byzantines?
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> Didn't become prominent out in the open in Egypt when The Muslim brotherhood took over.  (Thanks Obama)
> 
> Rape jihad is just shaming women to the point they don't want to have non Muslim children or if they are lucky they pregnate the victims with a Muslim kid.
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> Click to expand...
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> 
> 
> Rape jihad did not exist.  Rape as a tool of war certainly did, and I doubt you would find a single civilization in the pre-modern era that did not use it, and it is still used in many conflicts.  What people who are now calling it "rape jihad" are trying to do is make it seem as if it's unique to Islamic conflicts.
Click to expand...


Doesn't Jihad mean war against a non Muslim?   

So when a Muslim attacks a non Muslim with their tools of war then it's jihad.    

Hence the use of rape Jihad


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## Tilly

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
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> StLucieBengal said:
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> Rape has been a weapon of war since time immemorial.  Some fools seem to think it started with Islam.  They call it "rape jihad", a recently coined term that did not exist a few decades ago.  Perhaps these fools should check out the Old Testement, and see what it has to say about rape and war.  Is that "rape jihad" too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rape jihad didn't exist when they did it to the Byzantines?
> 
> Didn't become prominent out in the open in Egypt when The Muslim brotherhood took over.  (Thanks Obama)
> 
> Rape jihad is just shaming women to the point they don't want to have non Muslim children or if they are lucky they pregnate the victims with a Muslim kid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Rape jihad did not exist.  Rape as a tool of war certainly did, and I doubt you would find a single civilization in the pre-modern era that did not use it, and it is still used in many conflicts.  What people who are now calling it "rape jihad" are trying to do is make it seem as if it's unique to Islamic conflicts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Doesn't Jihad mean war against a non Muslim?
> 
> So when a Muslim attacks a non Muslim with their tools of war then it's jihad.
> 
> Hence the use of rape Jihad
Click to expand...

It's not exactly complex, is it? Lol. Rape jihad arrived with Mohammed and has never gone away. It is important for islamopologists to separate this tactic from Islam, hence the need for them to get rid of the jihad part, IMHO.


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## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
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> StLucieBengal said:
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> Coyote said:
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> 
> Rape has been a weapon of war since time immemorial.  Some fools seem to think it started with Islam.  They call it "rape jihad", a recently coined term that did not exist a few decades ago.  Perhaps these fools should check out the Old Testement, and see what it has to say about rape and war.  Is that "rape jihad" too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rape jihad didn't exist when they did it to the Byzantines?
> 
> Didn't become prominent out in the open in Egypt when The Muslim brotherhood took over.  (Thanks Obama)
> 
> Rape jihad is just shaming women to the point they don't want to have non Muslim children or if they are lucky they pregnate the victims with a Muslim kid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Rape jihad did not exist.  Rape as a tool of war certainly did, and I doubt you would find a single civilization in the pre-modern era that did not use it, and it is still used in many conflicts.  What people who are now calling it "rape jihad" are trying to do is make it seem as if it's unique to Islamic conflicts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Doesn't Jihad mean war against a non Muslim?
> 
> So when a Muslim attacks a non Muslim with their tools of war then it's jihad.
> 
> Hence the use of rape Jihad
Click to expand...


I don't think it's that simple.

For one - while rape is a tool of war, that doesn't mean every rape is an act of war.  Most of the time, it's an act of power and violence against a woman that has nothing to do with ideology, just violence.  Ideology can provide a "rationalization" to the perpetrator, but in the end it's still about power and violence against that woman.

Your statement also implies that all Muslims are "at war" with non-Muslims, and therefore any act of violence is a tool of that war.  Most often violence is for other reasons.  Muslim gangs are no different than neo-nazi gangs, latin american gangs, etc. etc. They are thugs who relish violence.

As for what does Jihad mean?  It to is far from a simplistic concept in Islam: What Does "Jihad" Really Mean to Muslims?
It includes "Jihad by sword" - which is the most widely circulated meaning in western cultures, but it also includes an inner struggle, which is less widely circulated.
_
 The concept of jihad as a struggle for self-improvement is little known among non-believers. Yet Noha Aboulmagd-Forster, who teaches Arabic at the University of Chicago's Center for Middle Eastern Studies, stresses that it may be the most common interpretation of the term. 

 "Something widely quoted by the Muslim 'man on the street' is that the most difficult jihad is the one of the soul," she said. "The biggest trouble is not with your enemy but with yourself." 

 While inner struggle is one meaning of jihad, many others evidently use it to describe engagement with external enemies. It is there that the concept encounters the notions of other faiths. 

 "Religiously, jihad is the expending of utmost effort in upholding and defending justice," said Sheikh Jaafar Idris, of the Saudi Arabian Embassy. Idris explained that he recognizes two kinds of jihad because there are two kinds of violations of justice: jihad with words against false beliefs, and jihad with the sword against acts of injustice. "The first is the basic and continuous jihad," Idris said. "It was mentioned in the Qur'an very early in the history of Islam and at a time when Muslims were weak and even persecuted. God said to His Prophet, 'Do not obey the kafireen (those who reject the truth) but wage jihad with it (the Qur'an) against them. [25:52]'" _​


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## Tilly

Poor kids. Disgusting.

*'He used me and abused me' - girl told police after alleged rape, court hears*




'He used me and abused me' - girl told police after alleged rape, court hears

12 Nov 2015 / Jenny Loweth, T&A Reporter


A VULNERABLE schoolgirl was forced to her knees and held by the hair when she was raped in a disused underground car park, a jury heard.

She was giving evidence in the trial of 13 men and a youth who deny a total of 28 sexual offences alleged to have taken place in Keighley between May, 2011, and June, 2012.

All but one of the allegations involves the teenager, aged between 13 and 14 at the time, Bradford Crown Court has heard.

A series of interviews she had with police officers was yesterday played in the packed courtroom.

The girl said she was a 13-year-old virgin when a teenage drug dealer called Arif Choudhury raped her in the grounds of a church in Keighley.

Soon afterwards, she claimed, he introduced her to other men and forced her to have sex with them.

Choudhury, who is not on trial and has left the country, was dealing in heroin, cocaine, steroids, ecstasy, cannabis, MCAT and amphetamine, the girl told the police.

In May, 2011, he slapped her round the face, pulled her hair, pushed her to the ground and raped her when she refused to deliver drugs for him any more, she alleged.

She told how he used physical violence on other occasions, bruising her face and breaking her rib.

She said she never took drugs and got nothing out of delivering them for Choudhury, who was 14 when she first met him, aged 12.

The girl said he called her "a little white *slag*," before raping her....

'He used me and abused me' - girl told police after alleged rape, court hears


Hmmm...slag ...that word is strangely familiar here....


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## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> StLucieBengal said:
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> 1. This entire thread is about a conspiracy against Muslims.  This is an excuse to the media reports of them rapefugees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Conspiracy theories aren't backed by data or facts.  My thread's OP is backed by crime statistics over a period of time.  The same sort of crime statistics, I might add, that are perfectly acceptable under other circumstances.  The fact that you refer to refugees/migrants as whole as "rapefugees" pretty much supports my position.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. On broad stroking a group of people....   If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck... It's a duck.
> 
> Muslims worldwide share the belief in oppression of women and children.   Not all rape away in praise to Allah.    But they do support wearing oppressive garmets.
> 
> This is my biggest issue with Islam.    Their constant oppression, which has no place in western society.   Which is why I would shut the borders to them.   Until they had a reformation to remove these beliefs and teachings .   My wife is Russian orthodox and wears a scarf in church but only wears it in church.   She doesn't wear it everywhere .... She still believes in God and isn't any less of an orthodox because of this ....  How is this any different than a Muslim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There I disagree with you, because it assumes two things - that all Muslims adhere to the most conservative aspects of Islam, that they all believe in oppressing women, and that Islam is unchangeable.   Attitudes towards women vary according to the culture of the people who practice that faith.  For example - look at FGM.  It's most prevalent in N. Africa, and in the countries where it is still practiced, it is done by Christian, Animaist and Muslims alike.  Yet, in other Muslim majority countries it is unheard of.  There is nothing in Islam itself that demands it - it's a cultural legacy.
> 
> Opinions of Muslims towards the role of women around the world may lag behind those of western countries, but within Western countries, like the US, Muslim opinions are in line with that of other demographic groups.
> 
> Muslims and Islam: Key findings in the U.S. and around the world
> 
> *What do American Muslims believe?*
> 
> _Our 2011 survey of Muslim Americans found that roughly half of U.S. Muslims (48%) say their own religious leaders have not done enough to speak out against Islamic extremists.
> 
> 
> Living in a religiously pluralistic society, Muslim Americans are more likely than Muslims in many other nations to have many non-Muslim friends. Only about half (48%) of U.S. Muslims say all or most of their close friends are also Muslims, compared with a global median of 95% in the 39 countries we surveyed.
> 
> 
> Roughly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (69%) say religion is very important in their lives. Virtually all (96%) say they believe in God, nearly two-thirds (65%) report praying at least daily and nearly half (47%) say they attend religious services at least weekly. By all of these traditional measures, Muslims in the U.S. are roughly as religious as U.S. Christians, although they are less religious than Muslims in many other nations.
> 
> 
> When it comes to political and social views, Muslims are far more likely to identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party (70%) than the Republican Party (11%) and to say they prefer a bigger government providing more services (68%) over a smaller government providing fewer services (21%). As of 2011, U.S. Muslims were somewhat split between those who said homosexuality should be accepted by society (39%) and those who said it should be discouraged (45%), although the group had grown considerably more accepting of homosexuality since a similar survey was conducted in 2007._​
> Section 5: Political Opinions and Social Values
> _Muslim Americans show strong support for allowing women to join the workforce. Nine-in-ten either completely (72%) or mostly agree (18%) that women should be able to work outside the home. Among the U.S. general public, almost all either completely (81%) or mostly (16%) agree with this.
> 
> Attitudes among Muslim Americans are similar to attitudes among Muslims in Lebanon and Turkey. But support for women working outside the home is considerably smaller in many other Muslim nations. For example, in Egypt, only about six-in-ten say they either completely agree (23%) or mostly agree (39%) that women should be allowed to work outside the home. About four-in-ten (39%) disagree.
> 
> Nearly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (68%) say gender makes no difference in the quality of political leaders. Still, about a quarter (27%) say men make better political leaders. Very few (4%) say women make better leaders. There are only slight differences in views on this between men and women and among various age groups. Among the U.S. public, 72% say gender does not determine who will be the better political leader. About one-in-ten each say men (12%) or women (13%) make better lead
> 
> _​
> 
> 
> 
> 3. How you treat other posters is of no concern to me in this discussion.   That is between you and them.     I am more concerned with the topic and not a side argument over past threads.
> 
> 4. So you would be willing to take on any people as long as they can make it here?
> 
> This type of belief is just not feasible in our society.    If we didn't have any social benefits then possibly....   But we  just can afford adding people from the 3rd world.    Not to mention the harm it would do our culture to be flooded with 3rd worlders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I would not be willing to take on any people.  I would not take those convicted of violent crimes for example.  I'm not "open borders".  I think there should be a good vetting process for people from certain countries and we do need to have limits.  I don't think it's because of our social benefits system, since few tend to utilize them, and when they do it's not for long.  Most want to work.
> 
> The question I have though, is that your argument - " the harm it would do our culture to be flooded with 3rd worlders" - is the same argument that has been applied to many other immigrant groups over successive waves of immigration: Irish, Chinese, East European Jews, Italians etc. and the sky never fell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it's not courageous for fighting aged men to flee the fight to go to the west.     Were you also cheering on the guy in titanic who got on the lifeboat ahead of women and children?    Was he courageous?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think it is that black and white.  Many of those "fighting age men" are not - they're just men, and there is no breakdown in ages in the data.  There is also considerable differences in the different groups.  For migrants and refugees trying to make it to Europe, 53% are men, with no age breakdown.
> 
> That  number includes all migrants.  However, the number of Syrian refugees overall, is dominated by women and children, most of whom are in the camps.
> 
> I don't consider it comparable to the life boat situation because I can see why men would go first.  The journey is tremendously dangerous, with a high mortality rate and an uncertain future.  The family is usually left in relative safety by comparison. While the conditions are bad in the refugee camps, at least they aren't being straffed by barrel bombs or sold as sex slaves by ISIS.  I would think it would be the men who would take the risks to try and establish themselves and bring their families over.
> 
> I've heard the argument before that these men are cowardly and should stay and fight.  My response is this - who are we to judge them when we do not walk in their shoes?  Listening to interviews with refugees from the Syrian conflict - what they and their families have been through is horrendous.  It's a war with no clear sides and horrible atrocities perpetrated on civilians.   It's not a new argument.  In fact, the same arguments were made in taking Jewish refugees during the holocaust.  Some countries that were willing to take them, would only take the children.  So desperate parents sent their children to try and save them.  And of course, the parents died.  In a conflict like Syria - I wouldn't judge the men.  That's different than the migrants though, but even then - they are fleeing different things so you can't just broadly judge it, it's case by case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for being human beings....    If they are brought up to believe In oppression and rape of women and children....  Just how human are they?    Sounds more like how animals believe....
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> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just how human are they?  Very.
> 
> You assume they are all rapists and abusers regardless of background, education, culture and individuality.  I disagree with that assumption.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All We have is all these personal accounts of women who have been raped and sexually assaulted by Arab and African men.   Migrants are African and Arab.
> 
> What's odd is that you take these personal accounts and dismiss them.
> 
> Even if you live at the holy altar of government crime stats.  Where there is smoke there is fire.   Unless you think these women are making stuff up?
> 
> Probably should consider that Sweden stopped charting gang rape stats in 2006 because it was rising.     Stats are kept to make police efforts look better.     There has been a long Muslim problem in Sweden for a time.   Same as Finland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, what we have are personal accounts that actually include few rapes, lots of sexual harrassment and assault claims.
> 
> I frankly think that the claim "where there is smoke there is fire" is a bad thing to go by.  It can ruin innocent people's lives and reputations.  Personal testimonials are iffy as reliable unless they are investigated.   If you think Sweden stopped charting crime stats in 2006, then offer some evidence for it.  Personally my thought is that a ten year conspiracy of silence and deliberate hiding of crime statistics throughout an entire nation, in a society as open as Sweden's would be difficult to pull off and not very believable.
> 
> I'm not outright dismissing claims - I'm saying  all claims should be investigated and some have been verified and even arrests made.  But I'm skeptical because there is a mass hysteria aspect to it that is not reflected in official crime rates.  When you couple that with increased xenophobia, a rise in rightwing nationalism and anti-immigrant sentiment overall that is looking for scapegoats, then any reasonable person should be careful of jumping to conclusions.  There are two things you can always count on to anger and mobilize a population:  outsiders raping their women and sexually abusing children and that occurs in every culture.
> 
> I mentioned earlier examples with attitudes of whites towards black men during Jim Crowe, and how innocent men were lynched for just looking at a white woman wrong.  A more recent example involves sexual abuse of children.  Some years ago...maybe the 80's or 90's?....there was a rash of claims of sexual abuse of children in daycares.  There was a fairly  new psychiatric method by which they interviewed extremely young children, I'm thinking as young as 1-2, barely verbal, and got them to give information leading them to believe the child had been molested.  The method was controversial and untested, there was no physical evidence supporting it, but it was used to charge people and take them to court.  The result was massive hysteria, news coverage, etc and parents wanting their children examined.  The outcome of it was, few convictions, I think, but also people subsequently found innocent, their lives completely ruined because of the "where there's smoke there's fire" and it led to descrediting of that particular pschological tool.  So, were these kids being molested?  In some cases, I'm sure they were.  In others, not.  But the hysteria that just the possibility it could have occurred created a mood that pushed events faster than they could be investigated responsibly, and into the court of public opinion.
> 
> That is why I'm skeptical of claims of "mass rapes on white women" and "sexual jihad".  And, I also suspect that now someone is going to claim I support abuse of children.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> 
> Muslims covet blue eyed and blonde Haired women.  Even back to the days of their fights with the Byzantines.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'd like to see some actual emperical data on whether that is true this day and age.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now this will force a change of topic of we are going down the history of "rape jihad".  I know you don't like the phrase but it actually has historical relevance.         I am quite sure that not all that use it today understand that history but it doesn't change the facts.
> 
> Does it bother you because it sounds violent and terrible?   Or do you actually believe that Muslims aren't told to wage war with other religions in the race to spread their beliefs around the globe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's look at the facts then.  As I pointed, all cultures have used rape as a tool of war, and that is all "rape jihad" really is.  The religions that dominate the world today, Islam and Christianity, have both used war as a means of spreading their faith, as did Judaism in it's heyday.  Rape is talked about and permitted, within certain rules in both the OT and the Quran, though I think the Quran as a whole as more rules surrounding it then the OT which is more open ended.
> 
> Personally I think most Muslims are not told to "wage war with other religions in the race to spread their beliefs around the globe" and they'd probably laugh in your face if you told them that.
Click to expand...



Just quickly I found where they pay more blue and green eyed female slaves.    

Watch: A scene at ISIS slave market; '$500' for green-eyed girl

You are wanting your your cake and also have the ability to eat it as well when it comes to Muslims.   You support traditional beliefs and teachings like the oppressive shrouds. Walking behind men, and the ability to rape away.     But then In the same paragraph you want to dismiss the traditional beliefs and make light of them.     

If Muslims believe in the shroud then it's safe to say they believe in other traditional Muslim teachings as well.    

Now as for the history of violence of Christians and Muslims.   This topic would require a new thread to have a true discussion and relate it to today.    I will say that had Christianity not had their reformation then it would be massively bloody today.      This is why I encourage Muslims to have a true reformation of their own religion and join modern society.


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## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


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> Rape has been a weapon of war since time immemorial.  Some fools seem to think it started with Islam.  They call it "rape jihad", a recently coined term that did not exist a few decades ago.  Perhaps these fools should check out the Old Testement, and see what it has to say about rape and war.  Is that "rape jihad" too?
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> Rape jihad didn't exist when they did it to the Byzantines?
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> Didn't become prominent out in the open in Egypt when The Muslim brotherhood took over.  (Thanks Obama)
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> Rape jihad is just shaming women to the point they don't want to have non Muslim children or if they are lucky they pregnate the victims with a Muslim kid.
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> Click to expand...
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> 
> 
> Rape jihad did not exist.  Rape as a tool of war certainly did, and I doubt you would find a single civilization in the pre-modern era that did not use it, and it is still used in many conflicts.  What people who are now calling it "rape jihad" are trying to do is make it seem as if it's unique to Islamic conflicts.
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> Click to expand...
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> 
> Doesn't Jihad mean war against a non Muslim?
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> So when a Muslim attacks a non Muslim with their tools of war then it's jihad.
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> Hence the use of rape Jihad
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> Click to expand...
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> 
> I don't think it's that simple.
> 
> For one - while rape is a tool of war, that doesn't mean every rape is an act of war.  Most of the time, it's an act of power and violence against a woman that has nothing to do with ideology, just violence.  Ideology can provide a "rationalization" to the perpetrator, but in the end it's still about power and violence against that woman.
> 
> Your statement also implies that all Muslims are "at war" with non-Muslims, and therefore any act of violence is a tool of that war.  Most often violence is for other reasons.  Muslim gangs are no different than neo-nazi gangs, latin american gangs, etc. etc. They are thugs who relish violence.
> 
> As for what does Jihad mean?  It to is far from a simplistic concept in Islam: What Does "Jihad" Really Mean to Muslims?
> It includes "Jihad by sword" - which is the most widely circulated meaning in western cultures, but it also includes an inner struggle, which is less widely circulated.
> _
> The concept of jihad as a struggle for self-improvement is little known among non-believers. Yet Noha Aboulmagd-Forster, who teaches Arabic at the University of Chicago's Center for Middle Eastern Studies, stresses that it may be the most common interpretation of the term.
> 
> "Something widely quoted by the Muslim 'man on the street' is that the most difficult jihad is the one of the soul," she said. "The biggest trouble is not with your enemy but with yourself."
> 
> While inner struggle is one meaning of jihad, many others evidently use it to describe engagement with external enemies. It is there that the concept encounters the notions of other faiths.
> 
> "Religiously, jihad is the expending of utmost effort in upholding and defending justice," said Sheikh Jaafar Idris, of the Saudi Arabian Embassy. Idris explained that he recognizes two kinds of jihad because there are two kinds of violations of justice: jihad with words against false beliefs, and jihad with the sword against acts of injustice. "The first is the basic and continuous jihad," Idris said. "It was mentioned in the Qur'an very early in the history of Islam and at a time when Muslims were weak and even persecuted. God said to His Prophet, 'Do not obey the kafireen (those who reject the truth) but wage jihad with it (the Qur'an) against them. [25:52]'" _​
Click to expand...



Here you go again.   you can't have two standards for the same topic.    

Jihad means what it means here.    We are in the west.    

The burden is not on everyone to change to Islam.   It's on Islam to change to everyone else.    That's what a reformation does .....   

You mention rape is a violent act towards women.    Well so is making them wear a hijab.    At least here in the west.


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## Tilly

StLucieBengal said:


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> Conspiracy theories aren't backed by data or facts.  My thread's OP is backed by crime statistics over a period of time.  The same sort of crime statistics, I might add, that are perfectly acceptable under other circumstances.  The fact that you refer to refugees/migrants as whole as "rapefugees" pretty much supports my position.
> 
> There I disagree with you, because it assumes two things - that all Muslims adhere to the most conservative aspects of Islam, that they all believe in oppressing women, and that Islam is unchangeable.   Attitudes towards women vary according to the culture of the people who practice that faith.  For example - look at FGM.  It's most prevalent in N. Africa, and in the countries where it is still practiced, it is done by Christian, Animaist and Muslims alike.  Yet, in other Muslim majority countries it is unheard of.  There is nothing in Islam itself that demands it - it's a cultural legacy.
> 
> Opinions of Muslims towards the role of women around the world may lag behind those of western countries, but within Western countries, like the US, Muslim opinions are in line with that of other demographic groups.
> 
> Muslims and Islam: Key findings in the U.S. and around the world
> 
> *What do American Muslims believe?*
> 
> _Our 2011 survey of Muslim Americans found that roughly half of U.S. Muslims (48%) say their own religious leaders have not done enough to speak out against Islamic extremists.
> 
> 
> Living in a religiously pluralistic society, Muslim Americans are more likely than Muslims in many other nations to have many non-Muslim friends. Only about half (48%) of U.S. Muslims say all or most of their close friends are also Muslims, compared with a global median of 95% in the 39 countries we surveyed.
> 
> 
> Roughly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (69%) say religion is very important in their lives. Virtually all (96%) say they believe in God, nearly two-thirds (65%) report praying at least daily and nearly half (47%) say they attend religious services at least weekly. By all of these traditional measures, Muslims in the U.S. are roughly as religious as U.S. Christians, although they are less religious than Muslims in many other nations.
> 
> 
> When it comes to political and social views, Muslims are far more likely to identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party (70%) than the Republican Party (11%) and to say they prefer a bigger government providing more services (68%) over a smaller government providing fewer services (21%). As of 2011, U.S. Muslims were somewhat split between those who said homosexuality should be accepted by society (39%) and those who said it should be discouraged (45%), although the group had grown considerably more accepting of homosexuality since a similar survey was conducted in 2007._​
> Section 5: Political Opinions and Social Values
> _Muslim Americans show strong support for allowing women to join the workforce. Nine-in-ten either completely (72%) or mostly agree (18%) that women should be able to work outside the home. Among the U.S. general public, almost all either completely (81%) or mostly (16%) agree with this.
> 
> Attitudes among Muslim Americans are similar to attitudes among Muslims in Lebanon and Turkey. But support for women working outside the home is considerably smaller in many other Muslim nations. For example, in Egypt, only about six-in-ten say they either completely agree (23%) or mostly agree (39%) that women should be allowed to work outside the home. About four-in-ten (39%) disagree.
> 
> Nearly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (68%) say gender makes no difference in the quality of political leaders. Still, about a quarter (27%) say men make better political leaders. Very few (4%) say women make better leaders. There are only slight differences in views on this between men and women and among various age groups. Among the U.S. public, 72% say gender does not determine who will be the better political leader. About one-in-ten each say men (12%) or women (13%) make better lead
> 
> _​
> No, I would not be willing to take on any people.  I would not take those convicted of violent crimes for example.  I'm not "open borders".  I think there should be a good vetting process for people from certain countries and we do need to have limits.  I don't think it's because of our social benefits system, since few tend to utilize them, and when they do it's not for long.  Most want to work.
> 
> The question I have though, is that your argument - " the harm it would do our culture to be flooded with 3rd worlders" - is the same argument that has been applied to many other immigrant groups over successive waves of immigration: Irish, Chinese, East European Jews, Italians etc. and the sky never fell.
> 
> I don't think it is that black and white.  Many of those "fighting age men" are not - they're just men, and there is no breakdown in ages in the data.  There is also considerable differences in the different groups.  For migrants and refugees trying to make it to Europe, 53% are men, with no age breakdown.
> 
> That  number includes all migrants.  However, the number of Syrian refugees overall, is dominated by women and children, most of whom are in the camps.
> 
> I don't consider it comparable to the life boat situation because I can see why men would go first.  The journey is tremendously dangerous, with a high mortality rate and an uncertain future.  The family is usually left in relative safety by comparison. While the conditions are bad in the refugee camps, at least they aren't being straffed by barrel bombs or sold as sex slaves by ISIS.  I would think it would be the men who would take the risks to try and establish themselves and bring their families over.
> 
> I've heard the argument before that these men are cowardly and should stay and fight.  My response is this - who are we to judge them when we do not walk in their shoes?  Listening to interviews with refugees from the Syrian conflict - what they and their families have been through is horrendous.  It's a war with no clear sides and horrible atrocities perpetrated on civilians.   It's not a new argument.  In fact, the same arguments were made in taking Jewish refugees during the holocaust.  Some countries that were willing to take them, would only take the children.  So desperate parents sent their children to try and save them.  And of course, the parents died.  In a conflict like Syria - I wouldn't judge the men.  That's different than the migrants though, but even then - they are fleeing different things so you can't just broadly judge it, it's case by case.
> 
> 
> Just how human are they?  Very.
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> You assume they are all rapists and abusers regardless of background, education, culture and individuality.  I disagree with that assumption.
> 
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> All We have is all these personal accounts of women who have been raped and sexually assaulted by Arab and African men.   Migrants are African and Arab.
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> What's odd is that you take these personal accounts and dismiss them.
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> Even if you live at the holy altar of government crime stats.  Where there is smoke there is fire.   Unless you think these women are making stuff up?
> 
> Probably should consider that Sweden stopped charting gang rape stats in 2006 because it was rising.     Stats are kept to make police efforts look better.     There has been a long Muslim problem in Sweden for a time.   Same as Finland.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Actually, what we have are personal accounts that actually include few rapes, lots of sexual harrassment and assault claims.
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> I frankly think that the claim "where there is smoke there is fire" is a bad thing to go by.  It can ruin innocent people's lives and reputations.  Personal testimonials are iffy as reliable unless they are investigated.   If you think Sweden stopped charting crime stats in 2006, then offer some evidence for it.  Personally my thought is that a ten year conspiracy of silence and deliberate hiding of crime statistics throughout an entire nation, in a society as open as Sweden's would be difficult to pull off and not very believable.
> 
> I'm not outright dismissing claims - I'm saying  all claims should be investigated and some have been verified and even arrests made.  But I'm skeptical because there is a mass hysteria aspect to it that is not reflected in official crime rates.  When you couple that with increased xenophobia, a rise in rightwing nationalism and anti-immigrant sentiment overall that is looking for scapegoats, then any reasonable person should be careful of jumping to conclusions.  There are two things you can always count on to anger and mobilize a population:  outsiders raping their women and sexually abusing children and that occurs in every culture.
> 
> I mentioned earlier examples with attitudes of whites towards black men during Jim Crowe, and how innocent men were lynched for just looking at a white woman wrong.  A more recent example involves sexual abuse of children.  Some years ago...maybe the 80's or 90's?....there was a rash of claims of sexual abuse of children in daycares.  There was a fairly  new psychiatric method by which they interviewed extremely young children, I'm thinking as young as 1-2, barely verbal, and got them to give information leading them to believe the child had been molested.  The method was controversial and untested, there was no physical evidence supporting it, but it was used to charge people and take them to court.  The result was massive hysteria, news coverage, etc and parents wanting their children examined.  The outcome of it was, few convictions, I think, but also people subsequently found innocent, their lives completely ruined because of the "where there's smoke there's fire" and it led to descrediting of that particular pschological tool.  So, were these kids being molested?  In some cases, I'm sure they were.  In others, not.  But the hysteria that just the possibility it could have occurred created a mood that pushed events faster than they could be investigated responsibly, and into the court of public opinion.
> 
> That is why I'm skeptical of claims of "mass rapes on white women" and "sexual jihad".  And, I also suspect that now someone is going to claim I support abuse of children.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Muslims covet blue eyed and blonde Haired women.  Even back to the days of their fights with the Byzantines.
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> I'd like to see some actual emperical data on whether that is true this day and age.
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> now this will force a change of topic of we are going down the history of "rape jihad".  I know you don't like the phrase but it actually has historical relevance.         I am quite sure that not all that use it today understand that history but it doesn't change the facts.
> 
> Does it bother you because it sounds violent and terrible?   Or do you actually believe that Muslims aren't told to wage war with other religions in the race to spread their beliefs around the globe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's look at the facts then.  As I pointed, all cultures have used rape as a tool of war, and that is all "rape jihad" really is.  The religions that dominate the world today, Islam and Christianity, have both used war as a means of spreading their faith, as did Judaism in it's heyday.  Rape is talked about and permitted, within certain rules in both the OT and the Quran, though I think the Quran as a whole as more rules surrounding it then the OT which is more open ended.
> 
> Personally I think most Muslims are not told to "wage war with other religions in the race to spread their beliefs around the globe" and they'd probably laugh in your face if you told them that.
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> Just quickly I found where they pay more blue and green eyed female slaves.
> 
> Watch: A scene at ISIS slave market; '$500' for green-eyed girl
> 
> You are wanting your your cake and also have the ability to eat it as well when it comes to Muslims.   You support traditional beliefs and teachings like the oppressive shrouds. Walking behind men, and the ability to rape away.     But then In the same paragraph you want to dismiss the traditional beliefs and make light of them.
> 
> If Muslims believe in the shroud then it's safe to say they believe in other traditional Muslim teachings as well.
> 
> Now as for the history of violence of Christians and Muslims.   This topic would require a new thread to have a true discussion and relate it to today.    I will say that had Christianity not had their reformation then it would be massively bloody today.      This is why I encourage Muslims to have a true reformation of their own religion and join modern society.
Click to expand...

The blonde blue eyed girls and women of Byzantium were very very highly prized by Islamic rape jihadis and scum Muslim slave owners.


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## Coyote

Tilly said:


> When does the 'debunking' happen?



Donald Trump’s call to ban Muslim immigrants is based on a very shoddy poll
None
Here's Why You Shouldn't Trust the Latest Poll on American Muslims
Trump's 'Muslim lockdown': What is the Center for Security Policy? - BBC News

Now....can you answer my question?  Or...are we in for yet another round of ducking and dodging?


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## StLucieBengal

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> I will check these as I go.    But if you are looking for sympathy for anyone who chooses not to live right then you are barking up the wrong tree.
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> I would shut borders from any place that oppresses women and/or children.       I think we need less of these people and more of the people who know how to live right.
> 
> My sister in law lives in Belarus and she would be a much better addition to any western country than anyone from the Middle East outside of Israel.   But she refuses to enter any country by hook or crook.
> 
> If you want to discuss immigration policy then I would take a page from the US immigration 1924 and limit each country to 3% yearly of the foreign born population of legal citizens.       I would block the Middle East and Central America.   One being at war with Islamic terrorism and Central America for the purpose to allow us to work through all the current illegals in this country.   Given most are from Central America.    A 10 year hold on immigration from these parts should allow us to catch up and tackle the current illegals.    After we round up any of them who have had a felony and deported them immediately.
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> Immigration should be a slow and steady drip so they can assimilate to our nation and our cultural beliefs since they are moving to be part of our culture.
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> In light of your feelings about the oppression of women, you might want to rethink whether you want to bring in people from Belarus...
> 
> Empowering Belarusian Women to Combat Domestic Violence
> _Every fourth woman in Belarus has been physically abused by her partner. Just in the last three months, 24 Belarusians have died as a result of domestic violence, a 41% increase from last year.
> 
> 
> For decades, impunity for such abuse has persisted in Belarus, a country with a traditional view on a women’s place in society and a troublesome human rights record for both men and women. Domestic violence is finally becoming a public issue and preventative and punitive measures are being taken...
> 
> ...A typical Belarusian domestic bully is a man in his thirties or forties, intoxicated and unemployed, according to Oleg Karazei, Head of the Prevention Office of the Central Department for Law Enforcement and Prevention of the Belarusian Interior Ministry. Thus, a high level of alcohol consumption, economic problems, and the lower status of women may contribute to the high prevalence of domestic violence in Belarus._
> 
> _*The Role of Culture and Gender Roles*
> 
> 
> Most important, the prevalence of domestic violence correlates with the status of women and cultural norms regarding gender roles. On the one hand, the law treats women and men in Belarus equally. The country has acceded to all major relevant international conventions related to the rights of women, including the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women (Women’s Convention) and  its Optional Protocol.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, discrimination against women on the job market and the so-called “glass ceiling” remain prevalent. Patriarchal notions of a woman's role in the family pervade the social and political sphere. Belarusian women are largely responsible for child upbringing, and President Lukashenka himself views women primarily as “keepers of hearth and home". For example, in 2010 he said, "It is undeniable that the Lord has ordained a woman to be a mother. Regardless of a woman's career, she has to care for her children. I want our women to give birth to at least three children."
> 
> 
> Gender stereotypes make violence easier to justify and can prevent women from reporting abuse. Cultural norms play a large role in the way women choose to respond to violence. Women in Belarus, as well as in other post-Soviet states, are expected "not to wash their dirty laundry in public"._​
> 
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> I can only assume this was supposed to be your "gotcha" post showing me that Belarusian women are victims as well.     Not sure what point you were trying to make especially when i said my sister in law.   Now I should make sure that you know that sister in law means a woman.   She isnt one of those trannies or delusional pretenders.   An actual real life woman here.....
> 
> I am really not sure what point you are trying to make.   That men who drink get into violent fits and pick on someone weaker than them?   Belarusian culture doesn't oppress women.   They are equals in society....
> 
> This was interesting...
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> _*..A typical Belarusian domestic bully is a man in his thirties or forties, intoxicated and unemployed, according to Oleg Karazei, Head of the Prevention Office of the Central Department for Law Enforcement and Prevention of the Belarusian Interior Ministry. Thus, a high level of alcohol consumption, economic problems, and the lower status of women may contribute to the high prevalence of domestic violence in Belarus.*_
> 
> You know what we didnt see in there.......  Their religion telling them its ok and permitted to abuse, rape, or assault their women.   They have drinking problem when it comes to violence at home.    Not a religion problem.    Same as we have here.....
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> Culture has more to do with how men interact with women then religion alone, and that is evident by how the faith is practiced in different areas around the world.
> 
> Belarus, as a whole seems pretty religious and dominated by the Belarusian Orthodox Church - conservative religious institutions that promote a  conservative view of the role of women and men and the idea that men are over women, which can be and has been used to justify abuse.   The article I quoted pointed out the inferior status of women in that culture as a ongoing issue in domestic abuse.  Where do you suppose that status comes from?  It comes from the church.  The countries where women enjoy the greatest rights and freedoms, and laws that protect them from violence are typically the most secular in their religious practices.
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> Click to expand...
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> 
> actually Russian orthodox is a lot like being old school Catholic.    There is zero oppression.
> 
> *Are you insinuating that being a homemaker makes you oppressed?   I realize you are trying to make a parallel to Muslims .... But I have never mentioned or said being a homemaker was a problem.    *
> 
> Are Russian orthodox women forced to wear an oppressive shroud or face a beating?     No.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, being a homemaker does not make you oppressed unless you have no choice.  Choice makes the difference.
> 
> Are Muslim women "forced to wear an oppressive shroud or face a beating?"  Not necessarily.  Depends on what culture they live in.
> 
> Are Orthodox Jews "forced to wear an oppressive shroud or face a beating?"
> 
> Removal of choice is what turns something into oppression and you seem to assume that most Muslim women do not have that choice.
Click to expand...


Choice is a great thing.

Police: 14-Year-Old Slapped, Dragged Out of School by Her Hair for Not Wearing Muslim Headscarf. Where It Allegedly Happened Might Irritate You.

I was forced to wear the veil and I wish no other woman had to suffer it

Somali woman killed for not wearing veil, relatives say - BBC News


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## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


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> Rape has been a weapon of war since time immemorial.  Some fools seem to think it started with Islam.  They call it "rape jihad", a recently coined term that did not exist a few decades ago.  Perhaps these fools should check out the Old Testement, and see what it has to say about rape and war.  Is that "rape jihad" too?
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> Rape jihad didn't exist when they did it to the Byzantines?
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> Didn't become prominent out in the open in Egypt when The Muslim brotherhood took over.  (Thanks Obama)
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> Rape jihad is just shaming women to the point they don't want to have non Muslim children or if they are lucky they pregnate the victims with a Muslim kid.
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> Rape jihad did not exist.  Rape as a tool of war certainly did, and I doubt you would find a single civilization in the pre-modern era that did not use it, and it is still used in many conflicts.  What people who are now calling it "rape jihad" are trying to do is make it seem as if it's unique to Islamic conflicts.
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> Doesn't Jihad mean war against a non Muslim?
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> So when a Muslim attacks a non Muslim with their tools of war then it's jihad.
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> Hence the use of rape Jihad
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> I don't think it's that simple.
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> For one - while rape is a tool of war, that doesn't mean every rape is an act of war.  Most of the time, it's an act of power and violence against a woman that has nothing to do with ideology, just violence.  Ideology can provide a "rationalization" to the perpetrator, but in the end it's still about power and violence against that woman.
> 
> Your statement also implies that all Muslims are "at war" with non-Muslims, and therefore any act of violence is a tool of that war.  Most often violence is for other reasons.  Muslim gangs are no different than neo-nazi gangs, latin american gangs, etc. etc. They are thugs who relish violence.
> 
> As for what does Jihad mean?  It to is far from a simplistic concept in Islam: What Does "Jihad" Really Mean to Muslims?
> It includes "Jihad by sword" - which is the most widely circulated meaning in western cultures, but it also includes an inner struggle, which is less widely circulated.
> _
> The concept of jihad as a struggle for self-improvement is little known among non-believers. Yet Noha Aboulmagd-Forster, who teaches Arabic at the University of Chicago's Center for Middle Eastern Studies, stresses that it may be the most common interpretation of the term.
> 
> "Something widely quoted by the Muslim 'man on the street' is that the most difficult jihad is the one of the soul," she said. "The biggest trouble is not with your enemy but with yourself."
> 
> While inner struggle is one meaning of jihad, many others evidently use it to describe engagement with external enemies. It is there that the concept encounters the notions of other faiths.
> 
> "Religiously, jihad is the expending of utmost effort in upholding and defending justice," said Sheikh Jaafar Idris, of the Saudi Arabian Embassy. Idris explained that he recognizes two kinds of jihad because there are two kinds of violations of justice: jihad with words against false beliefs, and jihad with the sword against acts of injustice. "The first is the basic and continuous jihad," Idris said. "It was mentioned in the Qur'an very early in the history of Islam and at a time when Muslims were weak and even persecuted. God said to His Prophet, 'Do not obey the kafireen (those who reject the truth) but wage jihad with it (the Qur'an) against them. [25:52]'" _​
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> Here you go again.   you can't have two standards for the same topic.
> 
> Jihad means what it means here.    We are in the west.
Click to expand...


No.  It does not.  And it's not a matter of "standards".  It's a matter of accurate definitions.  You can't just claim something means something because you say so.  You can CHOOSE to only accept one meaning, but then that leaves you open to a hell of a lot of misunderstanding.  We are in the west, but the term "jihad" is not a western term.  If we are going to use it, then it's incumbent on US to understand it's meaning properly.



> The burden is not on everyone to change to Islam.   It's on Islam to change to everyone else.    That's what a reformation does .....



No, that is not what "reformation" does.  Did Christianity change to everyone else?  Are you allowed to create your own meaning for the Trinity and sacrements and insist that your definition be adhered to by all Christians?  Reformation is bringing a religion in line with modern principles, while still retaining it's essence.  That means, you find within that religion, what you need - and it's there in Islam.  It's all in what you choose to emphasize.



> You mention rape is a violent act towards women.    Well so is making them wear a hijab.    At least here in the west.



Forcing a woman to do or wear anything against her will can be a violent act...or not.  

If a woman wants to go shopping, totally nude - is forcing her to wear clothing in public a violent act toward women?

On the other hand, our culture has acceptable dress codes that are fairly minimal to prevent arrest - you just  need to keep the naughty bits covered.  But we do have other limitations that can be imposed, for example requiring a shirt and shoes to enter certain establishments.  Is that a violent act?

The reason I'm pointing this out is it isn't black and white.

The second aspect is CHOICE.  I'm totally for free choice.  If a Muslim woman chooses to wear a hijab as an expression of her faith - then she has every right to - just like a woman has a right to be a homemaker - or an Orthodox Jewish woman has a right to wear a headscarf as an expression of her faith.

It's all about free choice.


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## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
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> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> In light of your feelings about the oppression of women, you might want to rethink whether you want to bring in people from Belarus...
> 
> Empowering Belarusian Women to Combat Domestic Violence
> _Every fourth woman in Belarus has been physically abused by her partner. Just in the last three months, 24 Belarusians have died as a result of domestic violence, a 41% increase from last year.
> 
> 
> For decades, impunity for such abuse has persisted in Belarus, a country with a traditional view on a women’s place in society and a troublesome human rights record for both men and women. Domestic violence is finally becoming a public issue and preventative and punitive measures are being taken...
> 
> ...A typical Belarusian domestic bully is a man in his thirties or forties, intoxicated and unemployed, according to Oleg Karazei, Head of the Prevention Office of the Central Department for Law Enforcement and Prevention of the Belarusian Interior Ministry. Thus, a high level of alcohol consumption, economic problems, and the lower status of women may contribute to the high prevalence of domestic violence in Belarus._
> 
> _*The Role of Culture and Gender Roles*
> 
> 
> Most important, the prevalence of domestic violence correlates with the status of women and cultural norms regarding gender roles. On the one hand, the law treats women and men in Belarus equally. The country has acceded to all major relevant international conventions related to the rights of women, including the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women (Women’s Convention) and  its Optional Protocol.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, discrimination against women on the job market and the so-called “glass ceiling” remain prevalent. Patriarchal notions of a woman's role in the family pervade the social and political sphere. Belarusian women are largely responsible for child upbringing, and President Lukashenka himself views women primarily as “keepers of hearth and home". For example, in 2010 he said, "It is undeniable that the Lord has ordained a woman to be a mother. Regardless of a woman's career, she has to care for her children. I want our women to give birth to at least three children."
> 
> 
> Gender stereotypes make violence easier to justify and can prevent women from reporting abuse. Cultural norms play a large role in the way women choose to respond to violence. Women in Belarus, as well as in other post-Soviet states, are expected "not to wash their dirty laundry in public"._​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can only assume this was supposed to be your "gotcha" post showing me that Belarusian women are victims as well.     Not sure what point you were trying to make especially when i said my sister in law.   Now I should make sure that you know that sister in law means a woman.   She isnt one of those trannies or delusional pretenders.   An actual real life woman here.....
> 
> I am really not sure what point you are trying to make.   That men who drink get into violent fits and pick on someone weaker than them?   Belarusian culture doesn't oppress women.   They are equals in society....
> 
> This was interesting...
> 
> 
> _*..A typical Belarusian domestic bully is a man in his thirties or forties, intoxicated and unemployed, according to Oleg Karazei, Head of the Prevention Office of the Central Department for Law Enforcement and Prevention of the Belarusian Interior Ministry. Thus, a high level of alcohol consumption, economic problems, and the lower status of women may contribute to the high prevalence of domestic violence in Belarus.*_
> 
> You know what we didnt see in there.......  Their religion telling them its ok and permitted to abuse, rape, or assault their women.   They have drinking problem when it comes to violence at home.    Not a religion problem.    Same as we have here.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Culture has more to do with how men interact with women then religion alone, and that is evident by how the faith is practiced in different areas around the world.
> 
> Belarus, as a whole seems pretty religious and dominated by the Belarusian Orthodox Church - conservative religious institutions that promote a  conservative view of the role of women and men and the idea that men are over women, which can be and has been used to justify abuse.   The article I quoted pointed out the inferior status of women in that culture as a ongoing issue in domestic abuse.  Where do you suppose that status comes from?  It comes from the church.  The countries where women enjoy the greatest rights and freedoms, and laws that protect them from violence are typically the most secular in their religious practices.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> actually Russian orthodox is a lot like being old school Catholic.    There is zero oppression.
> 
> *Are you insinuating that being a homemaker makes you oppressed?   I realize you are trying to make a parallel to Muslims .... But I have never mentioned or said being a homemaker was a problem.    *
> 
> Are Russian orthodox women forced to wear an oppressive shroud or face a beating?     No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, being a homemaker does not make you oppressed unless you have no choice.  Choice makes the difference.
> 
> Are Muslim women "forced to wear an oppressive shroud or face a beating?"  Not necessarily.  Depends on what culture they live in.
> 
> Are Orthodox Jews "forced to wear an oppressive shroud or face a beating?"
> 
> Removal of choice is what turns something into oppression and you seem to assume that most Muslim women do not have that choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Choice is a great thing.
> 
> Police: 14-Year-Old Slapped, Dragged Out of School by Her Hair for Not Wearing Muslim Headscarf. Where It Allegedly Happened Might Irritate You.
> 
> I was forced to wear the veil and I wish no other woman had to suffer it
> 
> Somali woman killed for not wearing veil, relatives say - BBC News
Click to expand...


Choice is a great thing.  We are very fortunate, in this country, that we do have that choice - something that does not exist in Somalia or Saudi Arabia for women.  In the case of your first article - the man was arrested, appropriately, for child abuse, for his actions towards his daughter.


----------



## Meathead

Tilly said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> All We have is all these personal accounts of women who have been raped and sexually assaulted by Arab and African men.   Migrants are African and Arab.
> 
> What's odd is that you take these personal accounts and dismiss them.
> 
> Even if you live at the holy altar of government crime stats.  Where there is smoke there is fire.   Unless you think these women are making stuff up?
> 
> Probably should consider that Sweden stopped charting gang rape stats in 2006 because it was rising.     Stats are kept to make police efforts look better.     There has been a long Muslim problem in Sweden for a time.   Same as Finland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, what we have are personal accounts that actually include few rapes, lots of sexual harrassment and assault claims.
> 
> I frankly think that the claim "where there is smoke there is fire" is a bad thing to go by.  It can ruin innocent people's lives and reputations.  Personal testimonials are iffy as reliable unless they are investigated.   If you think Sweden stopped charting crime stats in 2006, then offer some evidence for it.  Personally my thought is that a ten year conspiracy of silence and deliberate hiding of crime statistics throughout an entire nation, in a society as open as Sweden's would be difficult to pull off and not very believable.
> 
> I'm not outright dismissing claims - I'm saying  all claims should be investigated and some have been verified and even arrests made.  But I'm skeptical because there is a mass hysteria aspect to it that is not reflected in official crime rates.  When you couple that with increased xenophobia, a rise in rightwing nationalism and anti-immigrant sentiment overall that is looking for scapegoats, then any reasonable person should be careful of jumping to conclusions.  There are two things you can always count on to anger and mobilize a population:  outsiders raping their women and sexually abusing children and that occurs in every culture.
> 
> I mentioned earlier examples with attitudes of whites towards black men during Jim Crowe, and how innocent men were lynched for just looking at a white woman wrong.  A more recent example involves sexual abuse of children.  Some years ago...maybe the 80's or 90's?....there was a rash of claims of sexual abuse of children in daycares.  There was a fairly  new psychiatric method by which they interviewed extremely young children, I'm thinking as young as 1-2, barely verbal, and got them to give information leading them to believe the child had been molested.  The method was controversial and untested, there was no physical evidence supporting it, but it was used to charge people and take them to court.  The result was massive hysteria, news coverage, etc and parents wanting their children examined.  The outcome of it was, few convictions, I think, but also people subsequently found innocent, their lives completely ruined because of the "where there's smoke there's fire" and it led to descrediting of that particular pschological tool.  So, were these kids being molested?  In some cases, I'm sure they were.  In others, not.  But the hysteria that just the possibility it could have occurred created a mood that pushed events faster than they could be investigated responsibly, and into the court of public opinion.
> 
> That is why I'm skeptical of claims of "mass rapes on white women" and "sexual jihad".  And, I also suspect that now someone is going to claim I support abuse of children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims covet blue eyed and blonde Haired women.  Even back to the days of their fights with the Byzantines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'd like to see some actual emperical data on whether that is true this day and age.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now this will force a change of topic of we are going down the history of "rape jihad".  I know you don't like the phrase but it actually has historical relevance.         I am quite sure that not all that use it today understand that history but it doesn't change the facts.
> 
> Does it bother you because it sounds violent and terrible?   Or do you actually believe that Muslims aren't told to wage war with other religions in the race to spread their beliefs around the globe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's look at the facts then.  As I pointed, all cultures have used rape as a tool of war, and that is all "rape jihad" really is.  The religions that dominate the world today, Islam and Christianity, have both used war as a means of spreading their faith, as did Judaism in it's heyday.  Rape is talked about and permitted, within certain rules in both the OT and the Quran, though I think the Quran as a whole as more rules surrounding it then the OT which is more open ended.
> 
> Personally I think most Muslims are not told to "wage war with other religions in the race to spread their beliefs around the globe" and they'd probably laugh in your face if you told them that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Just quickly I found where they pay more blue and green eyed female slaves.
> 
> Watch: A scene at ISIS slave market; '$500' for green-eyed girl
> 
> You are wanting your your cake and also have the ability to eat it as well when it comes to Muslims.   You support traditional beliefs and teachings like the oppressive shrouds. Walking behind men, and the ability to rape away.     But then In the same paragraph you want to dismiss the traditional beliefs and make light of them.
> 
> If Muslims believe in the shroud then it's safe to say they believe in other traditional Muslim teachings as well.
> 
> Now as for the history of violence of Christians and Muslims.   This topic would require a new thread to have a true discussion and relate it to today.    I will say that had Christianity not had their reformation then it would be massively bloody today.      This is why I encourage Muslims to have a true reformation of their own religion and join modern society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The blonde blue eyed girls and women of Byzantium were very very highly prized by Islamic rape jihadis and scum Muslim slave owners.
Click to expand...

Easy Tilly, the Byzantines were definitely not Muslims but the first line of defense against them. The fall of Constantinople was the beginning of a long siege of Europe all the way to the gates of Vienna.

Coyote, stop making a fool of yourself. You're too much of an airhead for anyone to take seriously. Trust them.


----------



## Coyote

One thing I'm going to add, about choice and I'd like to post it as a serious question that hopefully won't get trolled.

Children have very limited free choice.  Parents can dictate a lot when it comes to what they wear or do.  There are plenty of cases of non-Muslim families that insist their children dress "modestly" according to their religious principles - high collars, no bear arms or legs, or a hair covering.  Is forcing a child to dress according to religious principles any different than a conservative Muslim family insisting on hijab for an unemancipated child?  

Disclaimer:  this is NOT in any way excusing what that father did to his daughter, that was child abuse.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You excuse it simply because of your goal to crush Western culture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which, in turn, is caused by a lack of self-worth.
> 
> When those who lack a sense of self worth look inside themselves and recognize just how worthless they feel, the honest and courageous people take stock of themselves and take measures to improve their worth -- not only to themselves, but to others as well. Cowardly, simpering individuals, however, simply blame their worthlessness on everybody else, and so align themselves with those seeking to destroy their own culture in a childish exhibition of nihilistic acting out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Was it lack of self worth that caused you to select a discredited poll from a hate site over the reputable sources you normally use or is it simply that your pathological hatred of all Muslims, even Americans, has created a total breakdown in your integrity and honesty?
> 
> Not that I expect an honest answer from you
Click to expand...



 The Islamist site you used did not discredit or debunk anything.

 You are certainly a broken record, now, aren't you?  The Geodon could help with these manic repetitions of yours, but again -- only if you take the stuff.

 As far as these intrusive thoughts of yours that compel you to say the same things over and over again is concerned, you can also dispense with all the projecting. Just because you are unconcerned with Muslims raping European women and children -- in fact indicating time after time that you consider it funny when others oppose it -- that does not mean anybody else ONLY opposes rape when it is Muslims. It just means you assume that others are as hypocritical as you, as devoid of basic humanity as you and so utterly committed to an agenda as you that they have allowed it to dominate their life as you have allowed this mania to dominate yours.


----------



## Tilly

Meathead said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, what we have are personal accounts that actually include few rapes, lots of sexual harrassment and assault claims.
> 
> I frankly think that the claim "where there is smoke there is fire" is a bad thing to go by.  It can ruin innocent people's lives and reputations.  Personal testimonials are iffy as reliable unless they are investigated.   If you think Sweden stopped charting crime stats in 2006, then offer some evidence for it.  Personally my thought is that a ten year conspiracy of silence and deliberate hiding of crime statistics throughout an entire nation, in a society as open as Sweden's would be difficult to pull off and not very believable.
> 
> I'm not outright dismissing claims - I'm saying  all claims should be investigated and some have been verified and even arrests made.  But I'm skeptical because there is a mass hysteria aspect to it that is not reflected in official crime rates.  When you couple that with increased xenophobia, a rise in rightwing nationalism and anti-immigrant sentiment overall that is looking for scapegoats, then any reasonable person should be careful of jumping to conclusions.  There are two things you can always count on to anger and mobilize a population:  outsiders raping their women and sexually abusing children and that occurs in every culture.
> 
> I mentioned earlier examples with attitudes of whites towards black men during Jim Crowe, and how innocent men were lynched for just looking at a white woman wrong.  A more recent example involves sexual abuse of children.  Some years ago...maybe the 80's or 90's?....there was a rash of claims of sexual abuse of children in daycares.  There was a fairly  new psychiatric method by which they interviewed extremely young children, I'm thinking as young as 1-2, barely verbal, and got them to give information leading them to believe the child had been molested.  The method was controversial and untested, there was no physical evidence supporting it, but it was used to charge people and take them to court.  The result was massive hysteria, news coverage, etc and parents wanting their children examined.  The outcome of it was, few convictions, I think, but also people subsequently found innocent, their lives completely ruined because of the "where there's smoke there's fire" and it led to descrediting of that particular pschological tool.  So, were these kids being molested?  In some cases, I'm sure they were.  In others, not.  But the hysteria that just the possibility it could have occurred created a mood that pushed events faster than they could be investigated responsibly, and into the court of public opinion.
> 
> That is why I'm skeptical of claims of "mass rapes on white women" and "sexual jihad".  And, I also suspect that now someone is going to claim I support abuse of children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims covet blue eyed and blonde Haired women.  Even back to the days of their fights with the Byzantines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'd like to see some actual emperical data on whether that is true this day and age.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now this will force a change of topic of we are going down the history of "rape jihad".  I know you don't like the phrase but it actually has historical relevance.         I am quite sure that not all that use it today understand that history but it doesn't change the facts.
> 
> Does it bother you because it sounds violent and terrible?   Or do you actually believe that Muslims aren't told to wage war with other religions in the race to spread their beliefs around the globe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's look at the facts then.  As I pointed, all cultures have used rape as a tool of war, and that is all "rape jihad" really is.  The religions that dominate the world today, Islam and Christianity, have both used war as a means of spreading their faith, as did Judaism in it's heyday.  Rape is talked about and permitted, within certain rules in both the OT and the Quran, though I think the Quran as a whole as more rules surrounding it then the OT which is more open ended.
> 
> Personally I think most Muslims are not told to "wage war with other religions in the race to spread their beliefs around the globe" and they'd probably laugh in your face if you told them that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Just quickly I found where they pay more blue and green eyed female slaves.
> 
> Watch: A scene at ISIS slave market; '$500' for green-eyed girl
> 
> You are wanting your your cake and also have the ability to eat it as well when it comes to Muslims.   You support traditional beliefs and teachings like the oppressive shrouds. Walking behind men, and the ability to rape away.     But then In the same paragraph you want to dismiss the traditional beliefs and make light of them.
> 
> If Muslims believe in the shroud then it's safe to say they believe in other traditional Muslim teachings as well.
> 
> Now as for the history of violence of Christians and Muslims.   This topic would require a new thread to have a true discussion and relate it to today.    I will say that had Christianity not had their reformation then it would be massively bloody today.      This is why I encourage Muslims to have a true reformation of their own religion and join modern society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The blonde blue eyed girls and women of Byzantium were very very highly prized by Islamic rape jihadis and scum Muslim slave owners.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Easy Tilly, the Byzantines were definitely not Muslims but the first line of defense against them. The fall of Constantinople was the beginning of a long siege of Europe all the way to the gates of Vienna.
> 
> Coyote, stop making a fool of yourself. You're too much of an airhead for anyone to take seriously. Trust them.
Click to expand...

I agree. It was the Byzantines the Muslims lusted after.  My post wasn't very clear, sozzy.


----------



## Tilly

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You excuse it simply because of your goal to crush Western culture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which, in turn, is caused by a lack of self-worth.
> 
> When those who lack a sense of self worth look inside themselves and recognize just how worthless they feel, the honest and courageous people take stock of themselves and take measures to improve their worth -- not only to themselves, but to others as well. Cowardly, simpering individuals, however, simply blame their worthlessness on everybody else, and so align themselves with those seeking to destroy their own culture in a childish exhibition of nihilistic acting out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Was it lack of self worth that caused you to select a discredited poll from a hate site over the reputable sources you normally use or is it simply that your pathological hatred of all Muslims, even Americans, has created a total breakdown in your integrity and honesty?
> 
> Not that I expect an honest answer from you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamist site you used did not discredit or debunk anything.
> 
> You are certainly a broken record, now, aren't you?  The Geodon could help with these manic repetitions of yours, but again -- only if you take the stuff.
> 
> As far as these intrusive thoughts of yours that compel you to say the same things over and over again is concerned, you can also dispense with all the projecting. Just because you are unconcerned with Muslims raping European women and children -- in fact indicating time after time that you consider it funny when others oppose it -- that does not mean anybody else ONLY opposes rape when it is Muslims. It just means you assume that others are as hypocritical as you, as devoid of basic humanity as you and so utterly committed to an agenda as you that they have allowed it to dominate their life as you have allowed this mania to dominate yours.
Click to expand...

It has actually ruined its own thread through its stalking, lying about posters, and it's endless BORING BEYOND BELIEF spamming. If only someone could help it. Lol.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Meathead said:


> .
> 
> Coyote, stop making a fool of yourself. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While you are at it, would you mind asking my golden retriever to stop licking himself?
> 
> I'm sure you will have every bit as much success.
Click to expand...


----------



## Meathead

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You excuse it simply because of your goal to crush Western culture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which, in turn, is caused by a lack of self-worth.
> 
> When those who lack a sense of self worth look inside themselves and recognize just how worthless they feel, the honest and courageous people take stock of themselves and take measures to improve their worth -- not only to themselves, but to others as well. Cowardly, simpering individuals, however, simply blame their worthlessness on everybody else, and so align themselves with those seeking to destroy their own culture in a childish exhibition of nihilistic acting out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Was it lack of self worth that caused you to select a discredited poll from a hate site over the reputable sources you normally use or is it simply that your pathological hatred of all Muslims, even Americans, has created a total breakdown in your integrity and honesty?
> 
> Not that I expect an honest answer from you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamist site you used did not discredit or debunk anything.
> 
> You are certainly a broken record, now, aren't you?  The Geodon could help with these manic repetitions of yours, but again -- only if you take the stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speaking of broken records...I posted other links as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as these intrusive thoughts of yours that compel you to say the same things over and over again is concerned, you can also dispense with all the projecting. Just because you are unconcerned with Muslims raping European women and children -- in fact indicating time after time that you consider it funny when others oppose it -- that does not mean anybody else ONLY opposes rape when it is Muslims. It just means you assume that others are as hypocritical as you, as devoid of basic humanity as you and so utterly committed to an agenda as you that they have allowed it to dominate their life as you have allowed this mania to dominate yours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why can't you answer a simple question?
Click to expand...

Weird. I saw a quote and started reading some of Coyote's broken English which then disappeared from my screen.


----------



## Tilly

More rape jihad.

*"Algerian sex attacker shouted "Inshallah" - if Allah wills it - as he raped a 25-year-old German student - then asked her if she had enjoyed it'*

*The 37-year-old Algerian man is on trial in Hannover, accused of rape*
*His victim, 25, said he shouted 'if Allah wills it' during her horrific ordeal*
*She told the court that her attacker asked her afterwards if it was 'good'*
*He denies rape but prosecutors say DNA evidence links him to the crime*
By COREY CHARLTON FOR MAILONLINE

PUBLISHED: 14:30, 10 February 2016 | UPDATED: 15:12, 10 February 2016

An Algerian man who almost killed his 25-year-old student victim shouted out 'if Allah wills it' in Arabic as he raped her in a darkened alley, a court has heard.

The man, identified only by his first name Rheda, is accused of following the student as she walked home from a nightclub at 5am in Hannover, Germany.

Afterwards, with his victim badly beaten, he is alleged to have climbed off her and asked her if she enjoyed it...

She said: 'He asked me in broken German if I had [the] time. Before I could reply he then grabbed me by the arm and pulled me down an alleyway.

'He told me "I need sex". I opened my mouth to scream but he put his hand over my mouth. I had a pepper spray, and I tried to spray it at him but he grabbed it off me, and used it on me instead.

'Then he threw me onto the ground, and tried to pull off my trousers but he couldn't do it. Then he started screaming at me to get undressed.'

She told the court she had tried to win time by begging him to leave her alone and hoped that someone would come past.

Nobody did, and when she tried to scream again he started beating her in the face and he sprayed the pepper spray on her face again.

He had banged her head on the ground repeatedly until she was almost unconscious, and she thought she was going to die.

She said: 'He put his hand over my mouth and closed my nose, and I thought I was going to suffocate. I then indicated to him that I had given in, and would do what he wanted if he let me breathe.'

He then raped her and she said that throughout he was talking to himself, shouting 'Inshallah' - which is Arabic for 'if Allah wills it'.

She said: 'Afterwards he asked me if it was good, and if I had enjoyed it.'

Her voice then broke as she added: 'I never would have thought something like that could happen to me. I just couldn't comprehend it. I thought I was going to die.'...

'Algerian sex attacker shouted "Inshallah" as he raped student, 25'


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Tilly said:


> More rape jihad.
> 
> *"Algerian sex attacker shouted "Inshallah" - if Allah wills it - as he raped a 25-year-old German student - then asked her if she had enjoyed it'*
> 
> *The 37-year-old Algerian man is on trial in Hannover, accused of rape*
> *His victim, 25, said he shouted 'if Allah wills it' during her horrific ordeal*
> *She told the court that her attacker asked her afterwards if it was 'good'*
> *He denies rape but prosecutors say DNA evidence links him to the crime*
> By COREY CHARLTON FOR MAILONLINE
> 
> PUBLISHED: 14:30, 10 February 2016 | UPDATED: 15:12, 10 February 2016
> 
> An Algerian man who almost killed his 25-year-old student victim shouted out 'if Allah wills it' in Arabic as he raped her in a darkened alley, a court has heard.
> 
> The man, identified only by his first name Rheda, is accused of following the student as she walked home from a nightclub at 5am in Hannover, Germany.
> 
> Afterwards, with his victim badly beaten, he is alleged to have climbed off her and asked her if she enjoyed it...
> 
> She said: 'He asked me in broken German if I had [the] time. Before I could reply he then grabbed me by the arm and pulled me down an alleyway.
> 
> 'He told me "I need sex". I opened my mouth to scream but he put his hand over my mouth. I had a pepper spray, and I tried to spray it at him but he grabbed it off me, and used it on me instead.
> 
> 'Then he threw me onto the ground, and tried to pull off my trousers but he couldn't do it. Then he started screaming at me to get undressed.'
> 
> She told the court she had tried to win time by begging him to leave her alone and hoped that someone would come past.
> 
> Nobody did, and when she tried to scream again he started beating her in the face and he sprayed the pepper spray on her face again.
> 
> He had banged her head on the ground repeatedly until she was almost unconscious, and she thought she was going to die.
> 
> She said: 'He put his hand over my mouth and closed my nose, and I thought I was going to suffocate. I then indicated to him that I had given in, and would do what he wanted if he let me breathe.'
> 
> He then raped her and she said that throughout he was talking to himself, shouting 'Inshallah' - which is Arabic for 'if Allah wills it'.
> 
> She said: 'Afterwards he asked me if it was good, and if I had enjoyed it.'
> 
> Her voice then broke as she added: 'I never would have thought something like that could happen to me. I just couldn't comprehend it. I thought I was going to die.'...
> 
> 'Algerian sex attacker shouted "Inshallah" as he raped student, 25'




Now, you can't expect Coyote to be moved by such a horrific ordeal when she derives such a sense of smug, self-righteous satisfaction by supporting those doing it, can you?

  Get with the program, here.  This isn't about the victims! It is about Coyote and all the others Coyotes of the world and their needs, instead. By acting as champions for Islamic rape, they prove to each other that they are "tolerant". It acts like brownie points, where the more they support the rape, the more credits they get from their little peeps for their tolerance.[/QUOTE]


----------



## StLucieBengal

So if coyote is bothered by calling it rape jihad maybe we should just call it what it is....   Ethnic cleansing.    

So if the crime stats are muddled on rapes vs sexual assaults..    Then we can just call all this ethnic cleansing and move forward with how we are going to expel this evil from our midst.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

StLucieBengal said:


> So if coyote is bothered by calling it rape jihad maybe we should just call it what it is....   Ethnic cleansing.
> 
> So if the crime stats are muddled on rapes vs sexual assaults..    Then we can just call all this ethnic cleansing and move forward with how we are going to expel this evil from our midst.




 What is so ridiculous is the way this creature  admits that rape during war is common, yet when her heroes do just that during their assault on the west, she calls people bigots if they point quite correctly to the nature of such. She then has the utter temerity to claim she never supported the actions of the rapists involved.

 This is one thoroughly disturbed individual.


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> So if coyote is bothered by calling it rape jihad maybe we should just call it what it is....   Ethnic cleansing.



How about simply being accurate and calling it what it is - rape?  Is it so hard to do that?



> So if the crime stats are muddled on rapes vs sexual assaults..    Then we can just call all this ethnic cleansing and move forward with how we are *going to expel this evil from our midst*.



I suspect that's what they thought when they saw black men standing near white women.  Strange Fruit indeed....

The hysteria is rising - now it's "ethnic cleansing"....with the same lack of hard data to support it.


----------



## Coyote

If you google "rape jihad" - top two sites that come up are Frontpage Mag and Pamela Gellar.  Not exactly reputable, to put it mildly.  Hate sites, like Stormfront.

Rape is rape.  But some people seem to need to make it into something more sinister.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if coyote is bothered by calling it rape jihad maybe we should just call it what it is....   Ethnic cleansing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about simply being accurate and calling it what it is - rape?  Is it so hard to do that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if the crime stats are muddled on rapes vs sexual assaults..    Then we can just call all this ethnic cleansing and move forward with how we are *going to expel this evil from our midst*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suspect that's what they thought when they saw black men standing near white women.  Strange Fruit indeed....
> 
> The hysteria is rising - now it's "ethnic cleansing"....with the same lack of hard data to support it.
Click to expand...


1. So are you saying that America has a rape/sex assault epidemic at the hands of black men at any point?  

I can't remember when there has ever been a claim that it was even happening.   

2. Actually ethnic cleansing fits better when you compromise based on your points.   

3. Rape or sexual assault....  Neither should be permitted.    If you want to argue over gangs of Muslims groping white women in Europe vs actual penetration then that's on you.   As far as I am concerned both are power plays by these Muslim migrants and it comes from them not knowing anything different.  Which is why they need shipped back and those areas need closed off from the west until they have a reformation and calm this nonsense down.

4. Rape Jihad is a way to discuss this issue because it lets everyone know your talking about the Muslims Raping away.    If we just said rape then there would be question of non Muslims rape vs Muslim rape.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> If you google "rape jihad" - top two sites that come up are Frontpage Mag and Pamela Gellar.  Not exactly reputable, to put it mildly.  Hate sites, like Stormfront.
> 
> Rape is rape.  But some people seem to need to make it into something more sinister.



Rape is sinister.   The fact that you can't or won't acknowledge that is scary.    

You are caught up into phrasing.   Rape Jihad, ethnic cleansing, rape, sexual assaults, these are all despicable acts and as far as I am concerned there is no "best option"


----------



## Mindful

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you google "rape jihad" - top two sites that come up are Frontpage Mag and Pamela Gellar.  Not exactly reputable, to put it mildly.  Hate sites, like Stormfront.
> 
> Rape is rape.  But some people seem to need to make it into something more sinister.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rape is sinister.   The fact that you can't or won't acknowledge that is scary.
> 
> You are caught up into phrasing.   Rape Jihad, ethnic cleansing, rape, sexual assaults, these are all despicable acts and as far as I am concerned there is no "best option"
Click to expand...


I came across this:

When It Comes To Hate, The Left Beats The Right, Hands Down


----------



## StLucieBengal

Mindful said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you google "rape jihad" - top two sites that come up are Frontpage Mag and Pamela Gellar.  Not exactly reputable, to put it mildly.  Hate sites, like Stormfront.
> 
> Rape is rape.  But some people seem to need to make it into something more sinister.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rape is sinister.   The fact that you can't or won't acknowledge that is scary.
> 
> You are caught up into phrasing.   Rape Jihad, ethnic cleansing, rape, sexual assaults, these are all despicable acts and as far as I am concerned there is no "best option"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I came across this:
> 
> When It Comes To Hate, The Left Beats The Right, Hands Down
Click to expand...



Interesting article.   I have discussed this many times before... The new leftists are more into hate vs the classic liberals.    The younger they get the more hateful they become.     I think the opposite is happening on the right.  

We could be seeing a reset in parties.     The establishment GOP and establishment Dems might end up together since Hillary will be the last establishment candidate to get a nomination most likely.    

Personally I don't know where the alt right movement will go but I think with time they will meld with the conservative/libertarian base and just end up being he extreme version of new GOP.     

The dems are moving to a more socialist mindset.   Which is reflective in their candidates that have any passionate following.     

The only way for the establishments to make it is for them to come together in one place.   Either the dems or GOP or form their own deal.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

StLucieBengal said:


> Interesting article.   I have discussed this many times before... The new leftists are more into hate vs the classic liberals.    The younger they get the more hateful they become.     I think the opposite is happening on the right.
> 
> .




I agree.  What I have observed over the last 50 years is this:

1966 -- the left was non conformist.  Today it is ultra-conformist.

1966 -- the left was based upon liberal principles. Today, it is based upon no principles at all other than identity and an opposition to anything considered conservative.

1966 -- the left sought a color-blind society. Today, it's all ABOUT color with all colors being free, you know, but some just being much more free than others.

1966 -- the left was against authoritarianism. Today it is the veritable source thereof.

1966 -- the left was about freeing people from oppression.  Today, it is about creating an imaginary sense of such for some while ignoring egregious examples for others.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> If you google "rape jihad" - top two sites that come up are Frontpage Mag and Pamela Gellar.  Not exactly reputable, to put it mildly.  Hate sites, like Stormfront.
> 
> Rape is rape.  But some people seem to need to make it into something more sinister.




That's odd -- when I googled the term, I came up with 469 THOUSAND hits.

 As far as hate is concerned, yes, since it is Muslim men selecting a different ethnicity to rape, you defend it.  If the reverse were true, you would be all over it like shit on stink.

 Your trying to equate the rejection of systematic rape as a function of the ideology you support with "hate" only indicates how far down the rabbit hole you have travelled due to your mental illness.


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you google "rape jihad" - top two sites that come up are Frontpage Mag and Pamela Gellar.  Not exactly reputable, to put it mildly.  Hate sites, like Stormfront.
> 
> Rape is rape.  But some people seem to need to make it into something more sinister.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rape is sinister.   The fact that you can't or won't acknowledge that is scary.
> 
> You are caught up into phrasing.   Rape Jihad, ethnic cleansing, rape, sexual assaults, these are all despicable acts and as far as I am concerned there is no "best option"
Click to expand...


Rape is rape.  It's an expression of brutality and power over a woman by a person who considers a woman less than.  There is no ethnic cleansing going on and no "rape jihad".  Ethnic cleansing has a very specific term and what makes a joke out of this (not out of rape, but out of these claims) is that somehow - all these migrants, who come from dozens of different countries and backgrounds, and "united" in "rape jihad".  It's like people casually using Nazi references to modern day leaders and events.

And still, there is a lack of solid emperical evidence to support this "jihad".


----------



## Mindful

Coyote said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you google "rape jihad" - top two sites that come up are Frontpage Mag and Pamela Gellar.  Not exactly reputable, to put it mildly.  Hate sites, like Stormfront.
> 
> Rape is rape.  But some people seem to need to make it into something more sinister.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rape is sinister.   The fact that you can't or won't acknowledge that is scary.
> 
> You are caught up into phrasing.   Rape Jihad, ethnic cleansing, rape, sexual assaults, these are all despicable acts and as far as I am concerned there is no "best option"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rape is rape.  It's an expression of brutality and power over a woman by a person who considers a woman less than.  There is no ethnic cleansing going on and no "rape jihad".  Ethnic cleansing has a very specific term and what makes a joke out of this (not out of rape, but out of these claims) is that somehow - all these migrants, who come from dozens of different countries and backgrounds, and "united" in "rape jihad".  It's like people casually using Nazi references to modern day leaders and events.
> 
> And still, there is a lack of solid emperical evidence to support this "jihad".
Click to expand...


And rape of men? How would you describe that activity?


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if coyote is bothered by calling it rape jihad maybe we should just call it what it is....   Ethnic cleansing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about simply being accurate and calling it what it is - rape?  Is it so hard to do that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if the crime stats are muddled on rapes vs sexual assaults..    Then we can just call all this ethnic cleansing and move forward with how we are *going to expel this evil from our midst*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suspect that's what they thought when they saw black men standing near white women.  Strange Fruit indeed....
> 
> The hysteria is rising - now it's "ethnic cleansing"....with the same lack of hard data to support it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. So are you saying that America has a rape/sex assault epidemic at the hands of black men at any point?
> 
> I can't remember when there has ever been a claim that it was even happening.
Click to expand...


I'm talking about mindsets and perceptions, particularly during Jim Crow and civil rights era - in this case, the perception that black men want and try to rape white women, and it took very little for a black man to be accused, convicted and lynched whether or not there was evidence, people's statements were never questioned.  If a black man jostled a white woman, he could be accused of assaulting her.  The stereotype was that they were subhuman, uncivilized, etc.  The mindset is the same as that of certain people regarding migrants today.



> 2. Actually ethnic cleansing fits better when you compromise based on your points.



From wikipedia:
*Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory by a more powerful ethnic group, with the intent of making it ethnically homogeneous.[1] The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), intimidation, as well as mass murder and genocidal rape.

To even attempt to draw a parallel is ridiculous.  Again, it's like people trying to draw parallels between modern political figures and Hitler.



> 3. Rape or sexual assault....  Neither should be permitted.    If you want to argue over gangs of Muslims groping white women in Europe vs actual penetration then that's on you.   As far as I am concerned both are power plays by these Muslim migrants and it comes from them not knowing anything different.  Which is why they need shipped back and those areas need closed off from the west until they have a reformation and calm this nonsense down.



As far as I'm concerned, they are crimes, but there is a difference between rape, sexual assault and sexual harrassment.  Those differences exist in the laws.  It's like the difference between man-slaughter and murder.



> 4. Rape Jihad is a way to discuss this issue because it lets everyone know your talking about the Muslims Raping away.    If we just said rape then there would be question of non Muslims rape vs Muslim rape.



Rape Jihad is nothing more than a way of inflamming the issue and creating scapegoats.  There is no difference between non Muslim rape and Muslim rape.  None.  Rape is rape.


----------



## Coyote

Mindful said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you google "rape jihad" - top two sites that come up are Frontpage Mag and Pamela Gellar.  Not exactly reputable, to put it mildly.  Hate sites, like Stormfront.
> 
> Rape is rape.  But some people seem to need to make it into something more sinister.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rape is sinister.   The fact that you can't or won't acknowledge that is scary.
> 
> You are caught up into phrasing.   Rape Jihad, ethnic cleansing, rape, sexual assaults, these are all despicable acts and as far as I am concerned there is no "best option"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rape is rape.  It's an expression of brutality and power over a woman by a person who considers a woman less than.  There is no ethnic cleansing going on and no "rape jihad".  Ethnic cleansing has a very specific term and what makes a joke out of this (not out of rape, but out of these claims) is that somehow - all these migrants, who come from dozens of different countries and backgrounds, and "united" in "rape jihad".  It's like people casually using Nazi references to modern day leaders and events.
> 
> And still, there is a lack of solid emperical evidence to support this "jihad".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And rape of men? How would you describe that activity?
Click to expand...


Rape.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

To listen to the Islamist, one might actually think Mohammad DIDN'T order his followers to use rape as an instrument to subdue those in the lands being invaded instead of doing so quite plainly. 

Of course, what does truth matter when the Islamist supporters get to feel so good about themselves by defending them?


----------



## Tilly

UK rape jihad, covered up by police and politicians:

*Police withheld bombshell report revealing how gangs of Muslim men were grooming more than 100 schoolgirls as young as 13 in case it inflamed racial tensions ahead of General Election *

*West Midlands Police release March 2010 document for first time this week *
*It says 100 mainly white children were at serious risk of being groomed*
*Report says perpetrators were all Asian, which could cause tension locally*
*No appeal was made and the report was published for first time this week *
*Britain's second largest police force withheld a report about gangs of Muslim men grooming children in case it inflamed racial tensions ahead of a General Election, it was revealed today

Police withheld Muslim grooming report to avoid general election row*


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if coyote is bothered by calling it rape jihad maybe we should just call it what it is....   Ethnic cleansing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about simply being accurate and calling it what it is - rape?  Is it so hard to do that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if the crime stats are muddled on rapes vs sexual assaults..    Then we can just call all this ethnic cleansing and move forward with how we are *going to expel this evil from our midst*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suspect that's what they thought when they saw black men standing near white women.  Strange Fruit indeed....
> 
> The hysteria is rising - now it's "ethnic cleansing"....with the same lack of hard data to support it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. So are you saying that America has a rape/sex assault epidemic at the hands of black men at any point?
> 
> I can't remember when there has ever been a claim that it was even happening.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm talking about mindsets and perceptions, particularly during Jim Crow and civil rights era - in this case, the perception that black men want and try to rape white women, and it took very little for a black man to be accused, convicted and lynched whether or not there was evidence, people's statements were never questioned.  If a black man jostled a white woman, he could be accused of assaulting her.  The stereotype was that they were subhuman, uncivilized, etc.  The mindset is the same as that of certain people regarding migrants today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Actually ethnic cleansing fits better when you compromise based on your points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From wikipedia:
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory by a more powerful ethnic group, with the intent of making it ethnically homogeneous.[1] The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), intimidation, as well as mass murder and genocidal rape.
> 
> To even attempt to draw a parallel is ridiculous.  Again, it's like people trying to draw parallels between modern political figures and Hitler.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Rape or sexual assault....  Neither should be permitted.    If you want to argue over gangs of Muslims groping white women in Europe vs actual penetration then that's on you.   As far as I am concerned both are power plays by these Muslim migrants and it comes from them not knowing anything different.  Which is why they need shipped back and those areas need closed off from the west until they have a reformation and calm this nonsense down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, they are crimes, but there is a difference between rape, sexual assault and sexual harrassment.  Those differences exist in the laws.  It's like the difference between man-slaughter and murder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Rape Jihad is a way to discuss this issue because it lets everyone know your talking about the Muslims Raping away.    If we just said rape then there would be question of non Muslims rape vs Muslim rape.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rape Jihad is nothing more than a way of inflamming the issue and creating scapegoats.  There is no difference between non Muslim rape and Muslim rape.  None.  Rape is rape.
Click to expand...

You would be singing SUCH a different tune if it were Swedish men selecting Muslims to rape.  Instead of defending the rapists, you would be beside yourself with indignation.


----------



## saveliberty

Coyote is simply applying religious superiority of Muslims much the same as Fascists need to exert the same over others.  Combine that with the liberal ability to find an excuse for bad behavior by selective and isolated worse offenders and you end up with Coyote.


----------



## Coyote

saveliberty said:


> Coyote is simply applying religious superiority of Muslims much the same as Fascists need to exert the same over others.  Combine that with the liberal ability to find an excuse for bad behavior by selective and isolated worse offenders and you end up with Coyote.


So you are joining the trolls.


----------



## Tilly

Coyote said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote is simply applying religious superiority of Muslims much the same as Fascists need to exert the same over others.  Combine that with the liberal ability to find an excuse for bad behavior by selective and isolated worse offenders and you end up with Coyote.
> 
> 
> 
> So you are joining the trolls.
Click to expand...

You are the troll.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote is simply applying religious superiority of Muslims much the same as Fascists need to exert the same over others.  Combine that with the liberal ability to find an excuse for bad behavior by selective and isolated worse offenders and you end up with Coyote.
> 
> 
> 
> So you are joining the trolls.
Click to expand...



Trolls?    I guess leftist will over use any word until the meaning is irrelevant.


----------



## Andylusion

Coyote said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you google "rape jihad" - top two sites that come up are Frontpage Mag and Pamela Gellar.  Not exactly reputable, to put it mildly.  Hate sites, like Stormfront.
> 
> Rape is rape.  But some people seem to need to make it into something more sinister.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rape is sinister.   The fact that you can't or won't acknowledge that is scary.
> 
> You are caught up into phrasing.   Rape Jihad, ethnic cleansing, rape, sexual assaults, these are all despicable acts and as far as I am concerned there is no "best option"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rape is rape.  It's an expression of brutality and power over a woman by a person who considers a woman less than.  There is no ethnic cleansing going on and no "rape jihad".  Ethnic cleansing has a very specific term and what makes a joke out of this (not out of rape, but out of these claims) is that somehow - all these migrants, who come from dozens of different countries and backgrounds, and "united" in "rape jihad".  It's like people casually using Nazi references to modern day leaders and events.
> 
> And still, there is a lack of solid emperical evidence to support this "jihad".
Click to expand...


I would disagree.

Besides that, many of the described actions of these immigrants into Germany and other areas, is only shocking, if you don't know how it works in their home countries.   It's very normal single women, in rural and tribal settings, to be simply taken and given to men.  Syria even to this day has slavery of women, as a normal situation. Forced into slave labor, or prostitution, is normal in Syria, and other middle east countries.

The BBC did a documentary on this, where they interviewed existing, culturally adapted immigrants in Germany.   People who have lived there for some years, and are now German citizens who learned German, and are part of German society.   They themselves said, this wasn't surprising.  The actions of these immigrants, closely resembled how they would act in their own country.

Part of the reason women are still treated like property, and are closely guarded by their family and tribe, isn't just because of ancient views on women (though no doubt that is part of it), it's also for their protection.  You let your daughter wander outside the village, you are not likely to see her again.   Some men from another village, or other province, will come by and snatch them away.   

Granted the more cosmopolitan cities of Syria, that isn't the case.  But immigrants are coming from all over, not just the more acceptable upscale city areas.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Andylusion said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you google "rape jihad" - top two sites that come up are Frontpage Mag and Pamela Gellar.  Not exactly reputable, to put it mildly.  Hate sites, like Stormfront.
> 
> Rape is rape.  But some people seem to need to make it into something more sinister.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rape is sinister.   The fact that you can't or won't acknowledge that is scary.
> 
> You are caught up into phrasing.   Rape Jihad, ethnic cleansing, rape, sexual assaults, these are all despicable acts and as far as I am concerned there is no "best option"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rape is rape.  It's an expression of brutality and power over a woman by a person who considers a woman less than.  There is no ethnic cleansing going on and no "rape jihad".  Ethnic cleansing has a very specific term and what makes a joke out of this (not out of rape, but out of these claims) is that somehow - all these migrants, who come from dozens of different countries and backgrounds, and "united" in "rape jihad".  It's like people casually using Nazi references to modern day leaders and events.
> 
> And still, there is a lack of solid emperical evidence to support this "jihad".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would disagree.
> 
> Besides that, many of the described actions of these immigrants into Germany and other areas, is only shocking, if you don't know how it works in their home countries.   It's very normal single women, in rural and tribal settings, to be simply taken and given to men.  Syria even to this day has slavery of women, as a normal situation. Forced into slave labor, or prostitution, is normal in Syria, and other middle east countries.
> 
> The BBC did a documentary on this, where they interviewed existing, culturally adapted immigrants in Germany.   People who have lived there for some years, and are now German citizens who learned German, and are part of German society.   They themselves said, this wasn't surprising.  The actions of these immigrants, closely resembled how they would act in their own country.
> 
> Part of the reason women are still treated like property, and are closely guarded by their family and tribe, isn't just because of ancient views on women (though no doubt that is part of it), it's also for their protection.  You let your daughter wander outside the village, you are not likely to see her again.   Some men from another village, or other province, will come by and snatch them away.
> 
> Granted the more cosmopolitan cities of Syria, that isn't the case.  But immigrants are coming from all over, not just the more acceptable upscale city areas.
Click to expand...


Great post.    

This is the exact reason why I think none of these migrants should be allowed into the west.   It is too much of a burden on them to overcome.   

How can they be expected to change their animalistic behavior?    

A more reasonable destination for them is in other parts of their continents where this is permitted or accepted.     They would have a better chance to assimilate and fit in with those countries.     

Really we are setting the Muslims up for failure by accepting into the west.


----------



## Coyote

Muslims have long been a part of the west.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> Muslims have long been a part of the west.



once again you are confusing the Muslims who have reformed themselves to western living and left behind the oppression and violence.... To the ones we are trying to stop from entering the west now.     

Reformed Muslims have proven their women don't need to be oppressed and covered up in all that nonsense.   They raise their men to be respectful and supportive for women's rights.   

Don't worry we know you are a Muslim cheerleader.


----------



## Tilly

Islamic organised groping and raping:

*Taharrush Gamea: has a new form of sexual harassment arrived in Europe?*
Dan Hitchens

The Swedish and German authorities say they have never encountered anything like it: groups of men encircling then molesting women in large public gatherings. It happened in Cologne and Stockholm, but is it really unprecedented? Ivar Arpi argues in the new Spectator that it may well be connected to a phenomenon called ‘taharrush gamea’, a form of group harassment previously seen in Egypt.

So what is taharrush gamea, and should Western police be worried? Here’s what we know.

‘Taharrush’ means sexual harassment – it’s a relatively modern word, which political scholar As’ad Abukhalil says dates back to at least the 1950s. ‘Gamea’ just means ‘collective’. Taharrush gamea came to attention in Egypt in 2005, when female protesters against the Mubarak government were sexually assaulted by plain-clothes policemen. Many subsequent cases were political in nature, but not all: as Mariam Kirollos writes, in 2006 ‘Egyptian bloggers reported cases of group sexual assault in downtown Cairo, where large groups of men groped veiled and unveiled women, and in some cases ripped their clothes off’. There were also cases of rape.

After the revolution in 2011, the attacks became more organised. The following year, volunteer groups of men began patrolling parts of Cairo to protect women from collective assaults. These became horribly frequent: in summer 2013, in the ten days around the time President Morsi was deposed, there were 186 documented cases of mob harassment, assault and rape...

Taharrush Gamea: has a new form of sexual harassment arrived in Europe? | Coffee House


----------



## StLucieBengal

Tilly said:


> Islamic organised groping and raping:
> 
> *Taharrush Gamea: has a new form of sexual harassment arrived in Europe?*
> Dan Hitchens
> 
> The Swedish and German authorities say they have never encountered anything like it: groups of men encircling then molesting women in large public gatherings. It happened in Cologne and Stockholm, but is it really unprecedented? Ivar Arpi argues in the new Spectator that it may well be connected to a phenomenon called ‘taharrush gamea’, a form of group harassment previously seen in Egypt.
> 
> So what is taharrush gamea, and should Western police be worried? Here’s what we know.
> 
> ‘Taharrush’ means sexual harassment – it’s a relatively modern word, which political scholar As’ad Abukhalil says dates back to at least the 1950s. ‘Gamea’ just means ‘collective’. Taharrush gamea came to attention in Egypt in 2005, when female protesters against the Mubarak government were sexually assaulted by plain-clothes policemen. Many subsequent cases were political in nature, but not all: as Mariam Kirollos writes, in 2006 ‘Egyptian bloggers reported cases of group sexual assault in downtown Cairo, where large groups of men groped veiled and unveiled women, and in some cases ripped their clothes off’. There were also cases of rape.
> 
> After the revolution in 2011, the attacks became more organised. The following year, volunteer groups of men began patrolling parts of Cairo to protect women from collective assaults. These became horribly frequent: in summer 2013, in the ten days around the time President Morsi was deposed, there were 186 documented cases of mob harassment, assault and rape...
> 
> Taharrush Gamea: has a new form of sexual harassment arrived in Europe? | Coffee House




Nothing to see here .....    

They are just playing a friendly game of red rover.


----------



## Tilly

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims have long been a part of the west.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> once again you are confusing the Muslims who have reformed themselves to western living and left behind the oppression and violence.... To the ones we are trying to stop from entering the west now.
> 
> Reformed Muslims have proven their women don't need to be oppressed and covered up in all that nonsense.   They raise their men to be respectful and supportive for women's rights.
> 
> Don't worry we know you are a Muslim cheerleader.
Click to expand...


Until quite recently Muslims in the West existed in minuscule numbers. As their numbers have grown, so to have the problems. The more of them there are, the less they assimilate and the more they band together, the more they demand things be done their way, and the more they reveal their utter contempt for the women and the culture of the host nation.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Tilly said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims have long been a part of the west.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> once again you are confusing the Muslims who have reformed themselves to western living and left behind the oppression and violence.... To the ones we are trying to stop from entering the west now.
> 
> Reformed Muslims have proven their women don't need to be oppressed and covered up in all that nonsense.   They raise their men to be respectful and supportive for women's rights.
> 
> Don't worry we know you are a Muslim cheerleader.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Until quite recently Muslims in the West existed in minuscule numbers. As their numbers have grown, so to have the problems. The more of them there are, the less they assimilate and the more they band together, demand things be done their way, and the more they reveal their utter contempt for women and for the host nations culture.
Click to expand...


The west can't take on people who act like animals.  There is just too big of a gap for them to come to be normal.   It's a set up for failure situation.   

Just like we have done with black people since the 60's.


----------



## Andylusion

StLucieBengal said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you google "rape jihad" - top two sites that come up are Frontpage Mag and Pamela Gellar.  Not exactly reputable, to put it mildly.  Hate sites, like Stormfront.
> 
> Rape is rape.  But some people seem to need to make it into something more sinister.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rape is sinister.   The fact that you can't or won't acknowledge that is scary.
> 
> You are caught up into phrasing.   Rape Jihad, ethnic cleansing, rape, sexual assaults, these are all despicable acts and as far as I am concerned there is no "best option"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rape is rape.  It's an expression of brutality and power over a woman by a person who considers a woman less than.  There is no ethnic cleansing going on and no "rape jihad".  Ethnic cleansing has a very specific term and what makes a joke out of this (not out of rape, but out of these claims) is that somehow - all these migrants, who come from dozens of different countries and backgrounds, and "united" in "rape jihad".  It's like people casually using Nazi references to modern day leaders and events.
> 
> And still, there is a lack of solid emperical evidence to support this "jihad".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would disagree.
> 
> Besides that, many of the described actions of these immigrants into Germany and other areas, is only shocking, if you don't know how it works in their home countries.   It's very normal single women, in rural and tribal settings, to be simply taken and given to men.  Syria even to this day has slavery of women, as a normal situation. Forced into slave labor, or prostitution, is normal in Syria, and other middle east countries.
> 
> The BBC did a documentary on this, where they interviewed existing, culturally adapted immigrants in Germany.   People who have lived there for some years, and are now German citizens who learned German, and are part of German society.   They themselves said, this wasn't surprising.  The actions of these immigrants, closely resembled how they would act in their own country.
> 
> Part of the reason women are still treated like property, and are closely guarded by their family and tribe, isn't just because of ancient views on women (though no doubt that is part of it), it's also for their protection.  You let your daughter wander outside the village, you are not likely to see her again.   Some men from another village, or other province, will come by and snatch them away.
> 
> Granted the more cosmopolitan cities of Syria, that isn't the case.  But immigrants are coming from all over, not just the more acceptable upscale city areas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Great post.
> 
> This is the exact reason why I think none of these migrants should be allowed into the west.   It is too much of a burden on them to overcome.
> 
> How can they be expected to change their animalistic behavior?
> 
> A more reasonable destination for them is in other parts of their continents where this is permitted or accepted.     They would have a better chance to assimilate and fit in with those countries.
> 
> Really we are setting the Muslims up for failure by accepting into the west.
Click to expand...


I would actually agree with that view somewhat.   One thing that we could do, and should do, is require cultural adaptation.    Germany doesn't play around with immigrants.  You come, you must learn German.  Not "stop" and "go" and "Yes I want fries with that"... you have to be fluent in German, and the German government is willing to subsidize, (not 100% but to some level), German integration classes.

I support this.    I actually think that our STATE level government could encourage privately funded tax deducted, charities with subsidized English lessons, and basic American culture classes.

But beyond that, I agree with you.  Culturally, Islamic people's are completely and utterly different than us.  We have, no matter what the mindless left-wing anti-god people say, a Judaeo-Christian culture.   People from Christian based cultures will have a much easier time adapting to our culture, and we should encourage more Christian immigration.   But Islamic culture is fundamentally different, and causes all kinds of problems.

You can't shut down the entire assembly production plant, to have a dozen workers in Colorado, walk to the prayer room and face Mecca 3 times during the day.  And that is an unavoidable problem. 

We just had a double Saturday over-time work shift.   The manager purchased Pizza for the entire crew.   Unfortunately, he under-estimated the number of Islamist in the group.   10 people crowded around one Veg-Pizza, and then were disappointed when there was not enough.

This isn't going to go away.  Culture matters.   So on that I think we shouldn't encourage Islamic immigration.  Not just to avoid problems ourselves, but also because it simply isn't good for them.  Unless of course, they wish to be Christian, and adopt our culture.


----------



## Mindful

Tilly said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims have long been a part of the west.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> once again you are confusing the Muslims who have reformed themselves to western living and left behind the oppression and violence.... To the ones we are trying to stop from entering the west now.
> 
> Reformed Muslims have proven their women don't need to be oppressed and covered up in all that nonsense.   They raise their men to be respectful and supportive for women's rights.
> 
> Don't worry we know you are a Muslim cheerleader.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Until quite recently Muslims in the West existed in minuscule numbers. As their numbers have grown, so to have the problems. The more of them there are, the less they assimilate and the more they band together, the more they demand things be done their way, and the more they reveal their utter contempt for the women and the culture of the host nation.
Click to expand...


What do you think of Mayor Khan?

At least he's strengthening ties with Paris. (Despite Brexit)

And doesn't rate Jeremy Corbyn highly.


----------



## saveliberty

Coyote said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote is simply applying religious superiority of Muslims much the same as Fascists need to exert the same over others.  Combine that with the liberal ability to find an excuse for bad behavior by selective and isolated worse offenders and you end up with Coyote.
> 
> 
> 
> So you are joining the trolls.
Click to expand...


Since that would be easier than accepting your own limitations and motivations, sure go with that.

Opening the door to the subject of trolls as you have, it is also a good opportunity to point out your incredible personal bias against many posters on the board.  Hardly the kind of objectivity one might hope for in a mod.


----------



## Mindful

saveliberty said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote is simply applying religious superiority of Muslims much the same as Fascists need to exert the same over others.  Combine that with the liberal ability to find an excuse for bad behavior by selective and isolated worse offenders and you end up with Coyote.
> 
> 
> 
> So you are joining the trolls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since that would be easier than accepting your own limitations and motivations, sure go with that.
> 
> Opening the door to the subject of trolls as you have, it is also a good opportunity to point out your incredible personal bias against many posters on the board.  Hardly the kind of subjectivity one might hope for in a mod.
Click to expand...


Did you mean objectivity?


----------



## saveliberty

Mindful said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote is simply applying religious superiority of Muslims much the same as Fascists need to exert the same over others.  Combine that with the liberal ability to find an excuse for bad behavior by selective and isolated worse offenders and you end up with Coyote.
> 
> 
> 
> So you are joining the trolls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since that would be easier than accepting your own limitations and motivations, sure go with that.
> 
> Opening the door to the subject of trolls as you have, it is also a good opportunity to point out your incredible personal bias against many posters on the board.  Hardly the kind of subjectivity one might hope for in a mod.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you mean objectivity?
Click to expand...


I posted before 8am, God only knows what I meant.  

Thank you


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims have long been a part of the west.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> once again you are confusing the Muslims who have reformed themselves to western living and left behind the oppression and violence.... To the ones we are trying to stop from entering the west now.
> 
> Reformed Muslims have proven their women don't need to be oppressed and covered up in all that nonsense.   They raise their men to be respectful and supportive for women's rights.
> 
> Don't worry we know you are a Muslim cheerleader.
Click to expand...




StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims have long been a part of the west.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> once again you are confusing the Muslims who have reformed themselves to western living and left behind the oppression and violence.... To the ones we are trying to stop from entering the west now.
> 
> Reformed Muslims have proven their women don't need to be oppressed and covered up in all that nonsense.   They raise their men to be respectful and supportive for women's rights.
> 
> Don't worry we know you are a Muslim cheerleader.
Click to expand...

You are confusing religion and culture.


----------



## Coyote

Andylusion said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you google "rape jihad" - top two sites that come up are Frontpage Mag and Pamela Gellar.  Not exactly reputable, to put it mildly.  Hate sites, like Stormfront.
> 
> Rape is rape.  But some people seem to need to make it into something more sinister.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rape is sinister.   The fact that you can't or won't acknowledge that is scary.
> 
> You are caught up into phrasing.   Rape Jihad, ethnic cleansing, rape, sexual assaults, these are all despicable acts and as far as I am concerned there is no "best option"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rape is rape.  It's an expression of brutality and power over a woman by a person who considers a woman less than.  There is no ethnic cleansing going on and no "rape jihad".  Ethnic cleansing has a very specific term and what makes a joke out of this (not out of rape, but out of these claims) is that somehow - all these migrants, who come from dozens of different countries and backgrounds, and "united" in "rape jihad".  It's like people casually using Nazi references to modern day leaders and events.
> 
> And still, there is a lack of solid emperical evidence to support this "jihad".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would disagree.
> 
> Besides that, many of the described actions of these immigrants into Germany and other areas, is only shocking, if you don't know how it works in their home countries.   It's very normal single women, in rural and tribal settings, to be simply taken and given to men.  Syria even to this day has slavery of women, as a normal situation. Forced into slave labor, or prostitution, is normal in Syria, and other middle east countries.
> 
> The BBC did a documentary on this, where they interviewed existing, culturally adapted immigrants in Germany.   People who have lived there for some years, and are now German citizens who learned German, and are part of German society.   They themselves said, this wasn't surprising.  The actions of these immigrants, closely resembled how they would act in their own country.
> 
> Part of the reason women are still treated like property, and are closely guarded by their family and tribe, isn't just because of ancient views on women (though no doubt that is part of it), it's also for their protection.  You let your daughter wander outside the village, you are not likely to see her again.   Some men from another village, or other province, will come by and snatch them away.
> 
> Granted the more cosmopolitan cities of Syria, that isn't the case.  But immigrants are coming from all over, not just the more acceptable upscale city areas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Great post.
> 
> This is the exact reason why I think none of these migrants should be allowed into the west.   It is too much of a burden on them to overcome.
> 
> How can they be expected to change their animalistic behavior?
> 
> A more reasonable destination for them is in other parts of their continents where this is permitted or accepted.     They would have a better chance to assimilate and fit in with those countries.
> 
> Really we are setting the Muslims up for failure by accepting into the west.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would actually agree with that view somewhat.   One thing that we could do, and should do, is require cultural adaptation.    Germany doesn't play around with immigrants.  You come, you must learn German.  Not "stop" and "go" and "Yes I want fries with that"... you have to be fluent in German, and the German government is willing to subsidize, (not 100% but to some level), German integration classes.
> 
> I support this.    I actually think that our STATE level government could encourage privately funded tax deducted, charities with subsidized English lessons, and basic American culture classes.
> 
> But beyond that, I agree with you.  Culturally, Islamic people's are completely and utterly different than us.  We have, no matter what the mindless left-wing anti-god people say, a Judaeo-Christian culture.   People from Christian based cultures will have a much easier time adapting to our culture, and we should encourage more Christian immigration.   But Islamic culture is fundamentally different, and causes all kinds of problems.
> 
> You can't shut down the entire assembly production plant, to have a dozen workers in Colorado, walk to the prayer room and face Mecca 3 times during the day.  And that is an unavoidable problem.
> 
> We just had a double Saturday over-time work shift.   The manager purchased Pizza for the entire crew.   Unfortunately, he under-estimated the number of Islamist in the group.   10 people crowded around one Veg-Pizza, and then were disappointed when there was not enough.
> 
> This isn't going to go away.  Culture matters.   So on that I think we shouldn't encourage Islamic immigration.  Not just to avoid problems ourselves, but also because it simply isn't good for them.  Unless of course, they wish to be Christian, and adopt our culture.
Click to expand...


Fortunately we are a nation that has its foundation on religious freedom, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, or no religion at all.  

What if it had been the number of vegetarians and pizza?  No religion there to blame.  Or Jews who follow the same dietary restrictions? Why do you refer to them as islamists, a term with a very specific meaning?

There is a concept known as "reasonable accommodation" when it comes employers and employees and religious freedom. If you look it up you will find many of the cases involve Christians, not surprisingly since they are the majority by far.  It allows for an appropriate balance between religious rights and freedoms and accommodations that prove too onerous or impact safety or ones ability to do their job. It's like recognizing the difference between the hijab and burka.

Most people who come here fleeing oppressive regimes come here appreciating that very freedom, including Muslims.  I've pointed out before that reputable polls of American Muslims show that their views are in line with those of other American groups on cultural issues.


----------



## Coyote

saveliberty said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote is simply applying religious superiority of Muslims much the same as Fascists need to exert the same over others.  Combine that with the liberal ability to find an excuse for bad behavior by selective and isolated worse offenders and you end up with Coyote.
> 
> 
> 
> So you are joining the trolls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since that would be easier than accepting your own limitations and motivations, sure go with that.
> 
> Opening the door to the subject of trolls as you have, it is also a good opportunity to point out your incredible personal bias against many posters on the board.  Hardly the kind of subjectivity one might hope for in a mod.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you mean objectivity?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I posted before 8am, God only knows what I meant.
> 
> Thank you
Click to expand...

Good day.


----------



## saveliberty

Coyote said:


> Good day.



...for a cookie...


----------



## Tilly

More rape jihad, more children sexually abused and threatened:

*Two 10-year-old schoolgirls molested and a woman's trousers ripped off: Inside the sleepy Swedish town rocked by EIGHT sex attacks in three weeks by migrant men *

*A string of brutal sex attacks has left residents of Östersund, population 44,000, living in fear they could be next*
*The small town has seen eight separate sex attacks since February 20, with the latest occurring at the weekend*
*Girls as young as 10 have reported being groped and threatened, while others have fought off would-be rapists*
*Police have warned women they are no longer safe walking alone at night, turning the city into an empty ghost town*
*Local women spoken to by MailOnline have said they are 'terrified' and that the situation in the town is 'out of hand'*
By ULF ANDERSSON IN ÖSTERSUND, SWEDEN FOR MAILONLINE

PUBLISHED: 15:00, 11 March 2016 | UPDATED: 19:10, 16 March 2016



The streets are deserted after dark in a sleepy Swedish town which is a now no-go zone for women after eight sex attacks in three weeks.

Women have been warned by police not to walk alone at night after the once peaceful town of Östersund was shaken to its core by a string of vicious attacks on females and even children by groups of young men of 'foreign origin'.

First, two 10-year-old girls were groped at a bus stop by a gang of men who threatened to rape them.

The following day, a woman told police she was punched in the face, splitting her eyebrow, by a man who threatened to kill her after he made a rude comment to her.

Just five days later a woman walking on her own was attacked by three men, beaten and pushed to the ground.

They held her down and forced their fingers into her mouth while saying offensive, sexual words to her.

And in the latest incident just five days ago, a woman had to use martial arts to elbow her would-be rapist in the head and escape after three men surrounded her and punched to the ground and tried to pull her trousers down.
*
Police in Östersund, with a population of 45,000, say they have never seen anything like this before.

They took the unprecedented move of calling a press conference on Monday to warn women to stay indoors*.

*Stephen Jerand, the county police commissioner, admitted police in the town are struggling to cope – adding that the surge in attacks ‘seem unreal’.*


EXCLUSIVE: The small Swedish town terrorized by string of sex attacks


----------



## saveliberty

Coyote said:


> Fortunately we are a nation that has its foundation on religious freedom, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, or no religion at all.
> 
> What if it had been the number of vegetarians and pizza?  No religion there to blame.  Or Jews who follow the same dietary restrictions? Why do you refer to them as islamists, a term with a very specific meaning?
> 
> There is a concept known as "reasonable accommodation" when it comes employers and employees and religious freedom. If you look it up you will find many of the cases involve Christians, not surprisingly since they are the majority by far.  It allows for an appropriate balance between religious rights and freedoms and accommodations that prove too onerous or impact safety or ones ability to do their job. It's like recognizing the difference between the hijab and burka.
> 
> Most people who come here fleeing oppressive regimes come here appreciating that very freedom, including Muslims. * I've pointed out before that reputable polls of American Muslims show that their views are in line with those of other American groups on cultural issues*.



Thank Allah terrorists are so forthcoming about poll accuracy.


----------



## Tilly

Disgusting and sickening beyond belief. There are MANY gangs like this. It's a national scandal, and this horror still goes on in Telford and elsewhere. A PC aided epidemic.

*Telford sex gang*
The *Telford sex gang* was a group of seven men of Pakistani descent who preyed extensively on pre-teen and under-age teenage girls in Telford, England before their arrest and prosecution.[1] In cases stretching over two years to late 2012,[2] they were convicted of sexual offences including rape, controlling child prostitution, causing child prostitution and trafficking for the purpose of prostitution. A Channel 4 investigation into the gang revealed:

_There were accounts concerning men who would ejaculate and then urinate in children's mouths, violating them in every orifice, as well as gang-rape by queues of men while girls were held hostage for hours, sometimes days – all the while being forced to listen to the screams of girls in other rooms with other men._[3]
*Telford sex gang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*


*Operation Chalice: Child sex abuse case concludes*

*The animals.*
*


*

*Operation Chalice: Child sex abuse case concludes - BBC News*


----------



## StLucieBengal

Mindful said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims have long been a part of the west.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> once again you are confusing the Muslims who have reformed themselves to western living and left behind the oppression and violence.... To the ones we are trying to stop from entering the west now.
> 
> Reformed Muslims have proven their women don't need to be oppressed and covered up in all that nonsense.   They raise their men to be respectful and supportive for women's rights.
> 
> Don't worry we know you are a Muslim cheerleader.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Until quite recently Muslims in the West existed in minuscule numbers. As their numbers have grown, so to have the problems. The more of them there are, the less they assimilate and the more they band together, the more they demand things be done their way, and the more they reveal their utter contempt for the women and the culture of the host nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do you think of Mayor Khan?
> 
> At least he's strengthening ties with Paris. (Despite Brexit)
> 
> And doesn't rate Jeremy Corbyn highly.
Click to expand...



He is weak.    

The relationship between France and The UK will always be strong whether or not they are in the EU together or not.    

Corbyn .....  lol.    Labour is a joke .


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims have long been a part of the west.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> once again you are confusing the Muslims who have reformed themselves to western living and left behind the oppression and violence.... To the ones we are trying to stop from entering the west now.
> 
> Reformed Muslims have proven their women don't need to be oppressed and covered up in all that nonsense.   They raise their men to be respectful and supportive for women's rights.
> 
> Don't worry we know you are a Muslim cheerleader.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims have long been a part of the west.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> once again you are confusing the Muslims who have reformed themselves to western living and left behind the oppression and violence.... To the ones we are trying to stop from entering the west now.
> 
> Reformed Muslims have proven their women don't need to be oppressed and covered up in all that nonsense.   They raise their men to be respectful and supportive for women's rights.
> 
> Don't worry we know you are a Muslim cheerleader.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are confusing religion and culture.
Click to expand...



Religious belief fuels culture.


----------



## Tilly

Mindful said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims have long been a part of the west.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> once again you are confusing the Muslims who have reformed themselves to western living and left behind the oppression and violence.... To the ones we are trying to stop from entering the west now.
> 
> Reformed Muslims have proven their women don't need to be oppressed and covered up in all that nonsense.   They raise their men to be respectful and supportive for women's rights.
> 
> Don't worry we know you are a Muslim cheerleader.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Until quite recently Muslims in the West existed in minuscule numbers. As their numbers have grown, so to have the problems. The more of them there are, the less they assimilate and the more they band together, the more they demand things be done their way, and the more they reveal their utter contempt for the women and the culture of the host nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do you think of Mayor Khan?
> 
> At least he's strengthening ties with Paris. (Despite Brexit)
> 
> And doesn't rate Jeremy Corbyn highly.
Click to expand...

Not much. He has shared platforms with some vile misogynistic Islamists, he unilaterally banned 'bikini' adverts on London transport whilst allowing an allahu Akbar advert to be plastered over buses in London and several other cities.


----------



## StLucieBengal

Coyote said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rape is sinister.   The fact that you can't or won't acknowledge that is scary.
> 
> You are caught up into phrasing.   Rape Jihad, ethnic cleansing, rape, sexual assaults, these are all despicable acts and as far as I am concerned there is no "best option"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rape is rape.  It's an expression of brutality and power over a woman by a person who considers a woman less than.  There is no ethnic cleansing going on and no "rape jihad".  Ethnic cleansing has a very specific term and what makes a joke out of this (not out of rape, but out of these claims) is that somehow - all these migrants, who come from dozens of different countries and backgrounds, and "united" in "rape jihad".  It's like people casually using Nazi references to modern day leaders and events.
> 
> And still, there is a lack of solid emperical evidence to support this "jihad".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would disagree.
> 
> Besides that, many of the described actions of these immigrants into Germany and other areas, is only shocking, if you don't know how it works in their home countries.   It's very normal single women, in rural and tribal settings, to be simply taken and given to men.  Syria even to this day has slavery of women, as a normal situation. Forced into slave labor, or prostitution, is normal in Syria, and other middle east countries.
> 
> The BBC did a documentary on this, where they interviewed existing, culturally adapted immigrants in Germany.   People who have lived there for some years, and are now German citizens who learned German, and are part of German society.   They themselves said, this wasn't surprising.  The actions of these immigrants, closely resembled how they would act in their own country.
> 
> Part of the reason women are still treated like property, and are closely guarded by their family and tribe, isn't just because of ancient views on women (though no doubt that is part of it), it's also for their protection.  You let your daughter wander outside the village, you are not likely to see her again.   Some men from another village, or other province, will come by and snatch them away.
> 
> Granted the more cosmopolitan cities of Syria, that isn't the case.  But immigrants are coming from all over, not just the more acceptable upscale city areas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Great post.
> 
> This is the exact reason why I think none of these migrants should be allowed into the west.   It is too much of a burden on them to overcome.
> 
> How can they be expected to change their animalistic behavior?
> 
> A more reasonable destination for them is in other parts of their continents where this is permitted or accepted.     They would have a better chance to assimilate and fit in with those countries.
> 
> Really we are setting the Muslims up for failure by accepting into the west.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would actually agree with that view somewhat.   One thing that we could do, and should do, is require cultural adaptation.    Germany doesn't play around with immigrants.  You come, you must learn German.  Not "stop" and "go" and "Yes I want fries with that"... you have to be fluent in German, and the German government is willing to subsidize, (not 100% but to some level), German integration classes.
> 
> I support this.    I actually think that our STATE level government could encourage privately funded tax deducted, charities with subsidized English lessons, and basic American culture classes.
> 
> But beyond that, I agree with you.  Culturally, Islamic people's are completely and utterly different than us.  We have, no matter what the mindless left-wing anti-god people say, a Judaeo-Christian culture.   People from Christian based cultures will have a much easier time adapting to our culture, and we should encourage more Christian immigration.   But Islamic culture is fundamentally different, and causes all kinds of problems.
> 
> You can't shut down the entire assembly production plant, to have a dozen workers in Colorado, walk to the prayer room and face Mecca 3 times during the day.  And that is an unavoidable problem.
> 
> We just had a double Saturday over-time work shift.   The manager purchased Pizza for the entire crew.   Unfortunately, he under-estimated the number of Islamist in the group.   10 people crowded around one Veg-Pizza, and then were disappointed when there was not enough.
> 
> This isn't going to go away.  Culture matters.   So on that I think we shouldn't encourage Islamic immigration.  Not just to avoid problems ourselves, but also because it simply isn't good for them.  Unless of course, they wish to be Christian, and adopt our culture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fortunately we are a nation that has its foundation on religious freedom, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, or no religion at all.
> 
> What if it had been the number of vegetarians and pizza?  No religion there to blame.  Or Jews who follow the same dietary restrictions? Why do you refer to them as islamists, a term with a very specific meaning?
> 
> There is a concept known as "reasonable accommodation" when it comes employers and employees and religious freedom. If you look it up you will find many of the cases involve Christians, not surprisingly since they are the majority by far.  It allows for an appropriate balance between religious rights and freedoms and accommodations that prove too onerous or impact safety or ones ability to do their job. It's like recognizing the difference between the hijab and burka.
> 
> *Most people who come here fleeing oppressive regimes come here appreciating that very freedom, including Muslims. * I've pointed out before that reputable polls of American Muslims show that their views are in line with those of other American groups on cultural issues.
Click to expand...



Yes people flee oppression to come here but they also understand that we don't stand for oppression here either.    

Why would Muslims flee oppression to still self oppress their women and children.   

Sorry but we don't stand for that stuff here ether.


----------



## Tilly

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rape is rape.  It's an expression of brutality and power over a woman by a person who considers a woman less than.  There is no ethnic cleansing going on and no "rape jihad".  Ethnic cleansing has a very specific term and what makes a joke out of this (not out of rape, but out of these claims) is that somehow - all these migrants, who come from dozens of different countries and backgrounds, and "united" in "rape jihad".  It's like people casually using Nazi references to modern day leaders and events.
> 
> And still, there is a lack of solid emperical evidence to support this "jihad".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would disagree.
> 
> Besides that, many of the described actions of these immigrants into Germany and other areas, is only shocking, if you don't know how it works in their home countries.   It's very normal single women, in rural and tribal settings, to be simply taken and given to men.  Syria even to this day has slavery of women, as a normal situation. Forced into slave labor, or prostitution, is normal in Syria, and other middle east countries.
> 
> The BBC did a documentary on this, where they interviewed existing, culturally adapted immigrants in Germany.   People who have lived there for some years, and are now German citizens who learned German, and are part of German society.   They themselves said, this wasn't surprising.  The actions of these immigrants, closely resembled how they would act in their own country.
> 
> Part of the reason women are still treated like property, and are closely guarded by their family and tribe, isn't just because of ancient views on women (though no doubt that is part of it), it's also for their protection.  You let your daughter wander outside the village, you are not likely to see her again.   Some men from another village, or other province, will come by and snatch them away.
> 
> Granted the more cosmopolitan cities of Syria, that isn't the case.  But immigrants are coming from all over, not just the more acceptable upscale city areas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Great post.
> 
> This is the exact reason why I think none of these migrants should be allowed into the west.   It is too much of a burden on them to overcome.
> 
> How can they be expected to change their animalistic behavior?
> 
> A more reasonable destination for them is in other parts of their continents where this is permitted or accepted.     They would have a better chance to assimilate and fit in with those countries.
> 
> Really we are setting the Muslims up for failure by accepting into the west.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would actually agree with that view somewhat.   One thing that we could do, and should do, is require cultural adaptation.    Germany doesn't play around with immigrants.  You come, you must learn German.  Not "stop" and "go" and "Yes I want fries with that"... you have to be fluent in German, and the German government is willing to subsidize, (not 100% but to some level), German integration classes.
> 
> I support this.    I actually think that our STATE level government could encourage privately funded tax deducted, charities with subsidized English lessons, and basic American culture classes.
> 
> But beyond that, I agree with you.  Culturally, Islamic people's are completely and utterly different than us.  We have, no matter what the mindless left-wing anti-god people say, a Judaeo-Christian culture.   People from Christian based cultures will have a much easier time adapting to our culture, and we should encourage more Christian immigration.   But Islamic culture is fundamentally different, and causes all kinds of problems.
> 
> You can't shut down the entire assembly production plant, to have a dozen workers in Colorado, walk to the prayer room and face Mecca 3 times during the day.  And that is an unavoidable problem.
> 
> We just had a double Saturday over-time work shift.   The manager purchased Pizza for the entire crew.   Unfortunately, he under-estimated the number of Islamist in the group.   10 people crowded around one Veg-Pizza, and then were disappointed when there was not enough.
> 
> This isn't going to go away.  Culture matters.   So on that I think we shouldn't encourage Islamic immigration.  Not just to avoid problems ourselves, but also because it simply isn't good for them.  Unless of course, they wish to be Christian, and adopt our culture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fortunately we are a nation that has its foundation on religious freedom, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, or no religion at all.
> 
> What if it had been the number of vegetarians and pizza?  No religion there to blame.  Or Jews who follow the same dietary restrictions? Why do you refer to them as islamists, a term with a very specific meaning?
> 
> There is a concept known as "reasonable accommodation" when it comes employers and employees and religious freedom. If you look it up you will find many of the cases involve Christians, not surprisingly since they are the majority by far.  It allows for an appropriate balance between religious rights and freedoms and accommodations that prove too onerous or impact safety or ones ability to do their job. It's like recognizing the difference between the hijab and burka.
> 
> *Most people who come here fleeing oppressive regimes come here appreciating that very freedom, including Muslims. * I've pointed out before that reputable polls of American Muslims show that their views are in line with those of other American groups on cultural issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes people flee oppression to come here but they also understand that we don't stand for oppression here either.
> 
> Why would Muslims flee oppression to still self oppress their women and children.
> 
> Sorry but we don't stand for that stuff here ether.
Click to expand...

Muslim men 'fleeing oppression' aren't courageous enough to fight for their country, but are brave enough to oppress, rape and prostitute women and children when they are given shelter and safety. You couldn't make it up and we shouldn't be importing this since they've apparently been raised this way and 'don't know' they shouldn't be oppressing and raping women and children. Sadly we do put up with this crap to a degree in the UK and Europe, as we let them run paedophillic rape rings, we allow them to operate their misogynistic barbaric sharia courts, and we allow them to establish no go zones.


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rape is rape.  It's an expression of brutality and power over a woman by a person who considers a woman less than.  There is no ethnic cleansing going on and no "rape jihad".  Ethnic cleansing has a very specific term and what makes a joke out of this (not out of rape, but out of these claims) is that somehow - all these migrants, who come from dozens of different countries and backgrounds, and "united" in "rape jihad".  It's like people casually using Nazi references to modern day leaders and events.
> 
> And still, there is a lack of solid emperical evidence to support this "jihad".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would disagree.
> 
> Besides that, many of the described actions of these immigrants into Germany and other areas, is only shocking, if you don't know how it works in their home countries.   It's very normal single women, in rural and tribal settings, to be simply taken and given to men.  Syria even to this day has slavery of women, as a normal situation. Forced into slave labor, or prostitution, is normal in Syria, and other middle east countries.
> 
> The BBC did a documentary on this, where they interviewed existing, culturally adapted immigrants in Germany.   People who have lived there for some years, and are now German citizens who learned German, and are part of German society.   They themselves said, this wasn't surprising.  The actions of these immigrants, closely resembled how they would act in their own country.
> 
> Part of the reason women are still treated like property, and are closely guarded by their family and tribe, isn't just because of ancient views on women (though no doubt that is part of it), it's also for their protection.  You let your daughter wander outside the village, you are not likely to see her again.   Some men from another village, or other province, will come by and snatch them away.
> 
> Granted the more cosmopolitan cities of Syria, that isn't the case.  But immigrants are coming from all over, not just the more acceptable upscale city areas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Great post.
> 
> This is the exact reason why I think none of these migrants should be allowed into the west.   It is too much of a burden on them to overcome.
> 
> How can they be expected to change their animalistic behavior?
> 
> A more reasonable destination for them is in other parts of their continents where this is permitted or accepted.     They would have a better chance to assimilate and fit in with those countries.
> 
> Really we are setting the Muslims up for failure by accepting into the west.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would actually agree with that view somewhat.   One thing that we could do, and should do, is require cultural adaptation.    Germany doesn't play around with immigrants.  You come, you must learn German.  Not "stop" and "go" and "Yes I want fries with that"... you have to be fluent in German, and the German government is willing to subsidize, (not 100% but to some level), German integration classes.
> 
> I support this.    I actually think that our STATE level government could encourage privately funded tax deducted, charities with subsidized English lessons, and basic American culture classes.
> 
> But beyond that, I agree with you.  Culturally, Islamic people's are completely and utterly different than us.  We have, no matter what the mindless left-wing anti-god people say, a Judaeo-Christian culture.   People from Christian based cultures will have a much easier time adapting to our culture, and we should encourage more Christian immigration.   But Islamic culture is fundamentally different, and causes all kinds of problems.
> 
> You can't shut down the entire assembly production plant, to have a dozen workers in Colorado, walk to the prayer room and face Mecca 3 times during the day.  And that is an unavoidable problem.
> 
> We just had a double Saturday over-time work shift.   The manager purchased Pizza for the entire crew.   Unfortunately, he under-estimated the number of Islamist in the group.   10 people crowded around one Veg-Pizza, and then were disappointed when there was not enough.
> 
> This isn't going to go away.  Culture matters.   So on that I think we shouldn't encourage Islamic immigration.  Not just to avoid problems ourselves, but also because it simply isn't good for them.  Unless of course, they wish to be Christian, and adopt our culture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fortunately we are a nation that has its foundation on religious freedom, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, or no religion at all.
> 
> What if it had been the number of vegetarians and pizza?  No religion there to blame.  Or Jews who follow the same dietary restrictions? Why do you refer to them as islamists, a term with a very specific meaning?
> 
> There is a concept known as "reasonable accommodation" when it comes employers and employees and religious freedom. If you look it up you will find many of the cases involve Christians, not surprisingly since they are the majority by far.  It allows for an appropriate balance between religious rights and freedoms and accommodations that prove too onerous or impact safety or ones ability to do their job. It's like recognizing the difference between the hijab and burka.
> 
> *Most people who come here fleeing oppressive regimes come here appreciating that very freedom, including Muslims. * I've pointed out before that reputable polls of American Muslims show that their views are in line with those of other American groups on cultural issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes people flee oppression to come here but they also understand that we don't stand for oppression here either.
> 
> *Why would Muslims flee oppression to still self oppress their women and children.   *
> 
> Sorry but we don't stand for that stuff here ether.
Click to expand...


Oppressing women and children is hardly restricted to Muslims.

I would expect anyone coming here to follow our laws the same as citizens do.


----------



## Coyote

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims have long been a part of the west.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> once again you are confusing the Muslims who have reformed themselves to western living and left behind the oppression and violence.... To the ones we are trying to stop from entering the west now.
> 
> Reformed Muslims have proven their women don't need to be oppressed and covered up in all that nonsense.   They raise their men to be respectful and supportive for women's rights.
> 
> Don't worry we know you are a Muslim cheerleader.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims have long been a part of the west.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> once again you are confusing the Muslims who have reformed themselves to western living and left behind the oppression and violence.... To the ones we are trying to stop from entering the west now.
> 
> Reformed Muslims have proven their women don't need to be oppressed and covered up in all that nonsense.   They raise their men to be respectful and supportive for women's rights.
> 
> Don't worry we know you are a Muslim cheerleader.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are confusing religion and culture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Religious belief fuels culture.
Click to expand...


They are intertwined.  And certain things we attribute to "religious belief" are actually cultural - for example, FGM and honor killings.  Other things that common to more then one religion such as killing homosexuals, stoning adulterers, raping and enslaving the losers of wars - are cultural leftovers from ancient times that people today - in civilized cultures - no longer choose to follow.  In it's about choice and what in your religion you choose to follow and how it's interpreted.


----------



## Tilly

StLucieBengal said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims have long been a part of the west.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> once again you are confusing the Muslims who have reformed themselves to western living and left behind the oppression and violence.... To the ones we are trying to stop from entering the west now.
> 
> Reformed Muslims have proven their women don't need to be oppressed and covered up in all that nonsense.   They raise their men to be respectful and supportive for women's rights.
> 
> Don't worry we know you are a Muslim cheerleader.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims have long been a part of the west.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> once again you are confusing the Muslims who have reformed themselves to western living and left behind the oppression and violence.... To the ones we are trying to stop from entering the west now.
> 
> Reformed Muslims have proven their women don't need to be oppressed and covered up in all that nonsense.   They raise their men to be respectful and supportive for women's rights.
> 
> Don't worry we know you are a Muslim cheerleader.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are confusing religion and culture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Religious belief fuels culture.
Click to expand...

I agree. Allah conveniently told Mohammed and his men that they could rape women, even in front of their captive husbands.


----------



## Jroc




----------



## Andylusion

Coyote said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rape is sinister.   The fact that you can't or won't acknowledge that is scary.
> 
> You are caught up into phrasing.   Rape Jihad, ethnic cleansing, rape, sexual assaults, these are all despicable acts and as far as I am concerned there is no "best option"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rape is rape.  It's an expression of brutality and power over a woman by a person who considers a woman less than.  There is no ethnic cleansing going on and no "rape jihad".  Ethnic cleansing has a very specific term and what makes a joke out of this (not out of rape, but out of these claims) is that somehow - all these migrants, who come from dozens of different countries and backgrounds, and "united" in "rape jihad".  It's like people casually using Nazi references to modern day leaders and events.
> 
> And still, there is a lack of solid emperical evidence to support this "jihad".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would disagree.
> 
> Besides that, many of the described actions of these immigrants into Germany and other areas, is only shocking, if you don't know how it works in their home countries.   It's very normal single women, in rural and tribal settings, to be simply taken and given to men.  Syria even to this day has slavery of women, as a normal situation. Forced into slave labor, or prostitution, is normal in Syria, and other middle east countries.
> 
> The BBC did a documentary on this, where they interviewed existing, culturally adapted immigrants in Germany.   People who have lived there for some years, and are now German citizens who learned German, and are part of German society.   They themselves said, this wasn't surprising.  The actions of these immigrants, closely resembled how they would act in their own country.
> 
> Part of the reason women are still treated like property, and are closely guarded by their family and tribe, isn't just because of ancient views on women (though no doubt that is part of it), it's also for their protection.  You let your daughter wander outside the village, you are not likely to see her again.   Some men from another village, or other province, will come by and snatch them away.
> 
> Granted the more cosmopolitan cities of Syria, that isn't the case.  But immigrants are coming from all over, not just the more acceptable upscale city areas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Great post.
> 
> This is the exact reason why I think none of these migrants should be allowed into the west.   It is too much of a burden on them to overcome.
> 
> How can they be expected to change their animalistic behavior?
> 
> A more reasonable destination for them is in other parts of their continents where this is permitted or accepted.     They would have a better chance to assimilate and fit in with those countries.
> 
> Really we are setting the Muslims up for failure by accepting into the west.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would actually agree with that view somewhat.   One thing that we could do, and should do, is require cultural adaptation.    Germany doesn't play around with immigrants.  You come, you must learn German.  Not "stop" and "go" and "Yes I want fries with that"... you have to be fluent in German, and the German government is willing to subsidize, (not 100% but to some level), German integration classes.
> 
> I support this.    I actually think that our STATE level government could encourage privately funded tax deducted, charities with subsidized English lessons, and basic American culture classes.
> 
> But beyond that, I agree with you.  Culturally, Islamic people's are completely and utterly different than us.  We have, no matter what the mindless left-wing anti-god people say, a Judaeo-Christian culture.   People from Christian based cultures will have a much easier time adapting to our culture, and we should encourage more Christian immigration.   But Islamic culture is fundamentally different, and causes all kinds of problems.
> 
> You can't shut down the entire assembly production plant, to have a dozen workers in Colorado, walk to the prayer room and face Mecca 3 times during the day.  And that is an unavoidable problem.
> 
> We just had a double Saturday over-time work shift.   The manager purchased Pizza for the entire crew.   Unfortunately, he under-estimated the number of Islamist in the group.   10 people crowded around one Veg-Pizza, and then were disappointed when there was not enough.
> 
> This isn't going to go away.  Culture matters.   So on that I think we shouldn't encourage Islamic immigration.  Not just to avoid problems ourselves, but also because it simply isn't good for them.  Unless of course, they wish to be Christian, and adopt our culture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fortunately we are a nation that has its foundation on religious freedom, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, or no religion at all.
> 
> What if it had been the number of vegetarians and pizza?  No religion there to blame.  Or Jews who follow the same dietary restrictions? Why do you refer to them as islamists, a term with a very specific meaning?
> 
> There is a concept known as "reasonable accommodation" when it comes employers and employees and religious freedom. If you look it up you will find many of the cases involve Christians, not surprisingly since they are the majority by far.  It allows for an appropriate balance between religious rights and freedoms and accommodations that prove too onerous or impact safety or ones ability to do their job. It's like recognizing the difference between the hijab and burka.
> 
> Most people who come here fleeing oppressive regimes come here appreciating that very freedom, including Muslims.  I've pointed out before that reputable polls of American Muslims show that their views are in line with those of other American groups on cultural issues.
Click to expand...


I worked at a place, I like to call, little Arabia.

We had people building products, and cleaning them.  One day the manager came in, and said openly in front of everyone, cleaning the product is too easy for men.  Only women can clean them from now on.   The next day all the men were moved to other positions, and all the cleaners were veiled women.

3 times during the day, everyone would step up, and walk to the back, and bang their heads on the ground toward Mecca.

On Friday, everyone would stand up and walk out, to go to the Mosque. They would leave at 11, and come back at 1.   Many a time, I would be sitting there working, and suddenly realize how quiet the place was, look up and find I was one of only 3 people in the room.

Occasionally, an Imam would actually come in, and speak their prayers over the PA system in the building.   

After I had worked there for six or seven months, I found out that all the Christians and non-muslims, were paid a lower wage than all the Muslims.   In fact, I was the lowest paid guy in the building, even lower paid than their women 'easy-job' cleaners.

Additionally, I found out that the Muslims were paid, while they went to the Mosque on Friday.  While of course, Christians and other non-muslims were not paid for any time off the property.

*LASTLY....*

I want you to understand that I am not joking, and that I am not making any of this up.....  this job was in Hillard Ohio, off of Cemetery road, next to the Beacon Elementary School, on Lacon Rd.  43026.

While I was there, the co-worker next to me, was a Muslim man from Chicago.    He was born and raised American.   He and the two co-workers opposite us (one from Jordan, and one from Somalia, both Muslim) were quizzing him on Islam.   They questioned him on Arabic, on the pillars of Islam, and Islamic law.

Finally, the man from Jordan asked him about jihad.   Both the Somali and the Chicago man, announced openly that if the Imam's in the US called for holy war, they would fight with the Muslims to kill the non-believers. (they avoided 'infidels' for some reason).

All of them smiled at each other.... and then... I guess they remembered I was there.  All three looked at me... and then went back to work, not saying a word for the rest of the day.
*
You don't see any emotes on this post.  No jokes.  No sarcastic remarks.  This is a true statement of an actual event, that I am describing in accurate detail.*

Now for the record, I agree that all people who are US citizens, religious freedom is protected.    I would never claim that this event that happened to me, should be used as an excuse to do wrong, or commit evil acts against citizens.

However, I deny that anyone have a "right" to come to the US.  And the constitution clearly and directly states that the US Federal government, has the constitution authority to determine who can come to the US.   Once you are a citizen, yes, you have religious freedom.  But we can have whatever rules, conditions, or qualifications we want for you to come here, and that includes a limitation against Islamic people coming here.

No one has a "right" to another country.   What is odd, is if you drive to Mexico, and demand they let you in without meeting their qualifications, you to to prison.    Most other countries are that way too.

Why anyone thinks we shouldn't be allowed to determine the requirements for people to come to our country, when nearly every other country does, is beyond me.


----------



## Meathead

Coyote said:


> Oppressing women and children is hardly restricted to Muslims.
> 
> I would expect anyone coming here to follow our laws the same as citizens do.


Certainly we must make exceptions for "honor killing" when Muslim girls look at men or wear suggestive clothing!


----------



## StLucieBengal

Andylusion said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rape is rape.  It's an expression of brutality and power over a woman by a person who considers a woman less than.  There is no ethnic cleansing going on and no "rape jihad".  Ethnic cleansing has a very specific term and what makes a joke out of this (not out of rape, but out of these claims) is that somehow - all these migrants, who come from dozens of different countries and backgrounds, and "united" in "rape jihad".  It's like people casually using Nazi references to modern day leaders and events.
> 
> And still, there is a lack of solid emperical evidence to support this "jihad".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would disagree.
> 
> Besides that, many of the described actions of these immigrants into Germany and other areas, is only shocking, if you don't know how it works in their home countries.   It's very normal single women, in rural and tribal settings, to be simply taken and given to men.  Syria even to this day has slavery of women, as a normal situation. Forced into slave labor, or prostitution, is normal in Syria, and other middle east countries.
> 
> The BBC did a documentary on this, where they interviewed existing, culturally adapted immigrants in Germany.   People who have lived there for some years, and are now German citizens who learned German, and are part of German society.   They themselves said, this wasn't surprising.  The actions of these immigrants, closely resembled how they would act in their own country.
> 
> Part of the reason women are still treated like property, and are closely guarded by their family and tribe, isn't just because of ancient views on women (though no doubt that is part of it), it's also for their protection.  You let your daughter wander outside the village, you are not likely to see her again.   Some men from another village, or other province, will come by and snatch them away.
> 
> Granted the more cosmopolitan cities of Syria, that isn't the case.  But immigrants are coming from all over, not just the more acceptable upscale city areas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Great post.
> 
> This is the exact reason why I think none of these migrants should be allowed into the west.   It is too much of a burden on them to overcome.
> 
> How can they be expected to change their animalistic behavior?
> 
> A more reasonable destination for them is in other parts of their continents where this is permitted or accepted.     They would have a better chance to assimilate and fit in with those countries.
> 
> Really we are setting the Muslims up for failure by accepting into the west.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would actually agree with that view somewhat.   One thing that we could do, and should do, is require cultural adaptation.    Germany doesn't play around with immigrants.  You come, you must learn German.  Not "stop" and "go" and "Yes I want fries with that"... you have to be fluent in German, and the German government is willing to subsidize, (not 100% but to some level), German integration classes.
> 
> I support this.    I actually think that our STATE level government could encourage privately funded tax deducted, charities with subsidized English lessons, and basic American culture classes.
> 
> But beyond that, I agree with you.  Culturally, Islamic people's are completely and utterly different than us.  We have, no matter what the mindless left-wing anti-god people say, a Judaeo-Christian culture.   People from Christian based cultures will have a much easier time adapting to our culture, and we should encourage more Christian immigration.   But Islamic culture is fundamentally different, and causes all kinds of problems.
> 
> You can't shut down the entire assembly production plant, to have a dozen workers in Colorado, walk to the prayer room and face Mecca 3 times during the day.  And that is an unavoidable problem.
> 
> We just had a double Saturday over-time work shift.   The manager purchased Pizza for the entire crew.   Unfortunately, he under-estimated the number of Islamist in the group.   10 people crowded around one Veg-Pizza, and then were disappointed when there was not enough.
> 
> This isn't going to go away.  Culture matters.   So on that I think we shouldn't encourage Islamic immigration.  Not just to avoid problems ourselves, but also because it simply isn't good for them.  Unless of course, they wish to be Christian, and adopt our culture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fortunately we are a nation that has its foundation on religious freedom, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, or no religion at all.
> 
> What if it had been the number of vegetarians and pizza?  No religion there to blame.  Or Jews who follow the same dietary restrictions? Why do you refer to them as islamists, a term with a very specific meaning?
> 
> There is a concept known as "reasonable accommodation" when it comes employers and employees and religious freedom. If you look it up you will find many of the cases involve Christians, not surprisingly since they are the majority by far.  It allows for an appropriate balance between religious rights and freedoms and accommodations that prove too onerous or impact safety or ones ability to do their job. It's like recognizing the difference between the hijab and burka.
> 
> Most people who come here fleeing oppressive regimes come here appreciating that very freedom, including Muslims.  I've pointed out before that reputable polls of American Muslims show that their views are in line with those of other American groups on cultural issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I worked at a place, I like to call, little Arabia.
> 
> We had people building products, and cleaning them.  One day the manager came in, and said openly in front of everyone, cleaning the product is too easy for men.  Only women can clean them from now on.   The next day all the men were moved to other positions, and all the cleaners were veiled women.
> 
> 3 times during the day, everyone would step up, and walk to the back, and bang their heads on the ground toward Mecca.
> 
> On Friday, everyone would stand up and walk out, to go to the Mosque. They would leave at 11, and come back at 1.   Many a time, I would be sitting there working, and suddenly realize how quiet the place was, look up and find I was one of only 3 people in the room.
> 
> Occasionally, an Imam would actually come in, and speak their prayers over the PA system in the building.
> 
> After I had worked there for six or seven months, I found out that all the Christians and non-muslims, were paid a lower wage than all the Muslims.   In fact, I was the lowest paid guy in the building, even lower paid than their women 'easy-job' cleaners.
> 
> Additionally, I found out that the Muslims were paid, while they went to the Mosque on Friday.  While of course, Christians and other non-muslims were not paid for any time off the property.
> 
> *LASTLY....*
> 
> I want you to understand that I am not joking, and that I am not making any of this up.....  this job was in Hillard Ohio, off of Cemetery road, next to the Beacon Elementary School, on Lacon Rd.  43026.
> 
> While I was there, the co-worker next to me, was a Muslim man from Chicago.    He was born and raised American.   He and the two co-workers opposite us (one from Jordan, and one from Somalia, both Muslim) were quizzing him on Islam.   They questioned him on Arabic, on the pillars of Islam, and Islamic law.
> 
> Finally, the man from Jordan asked him about jihad.   Both the Somali and the Chicago man, announced openly that if the Imam's in the US called for holy war, they would fight with the Muslims to kill the non-believers. (they avoided 'infidels' for some reason).
> 
> All of them smiled at each other.... and then... I guess they remembered I was there.  All three looked at me... and then went back to work, not saying a word for the rest of the day.
> *
> You don't see any emotes on this post.  No jokes.  No sarcastic remarks.  This is a true statement of an actual event, that I am describing in accurate detail.*
> 
> Now for the record, I agree that all people who are US citizens, religious freedom is protected.    I would never claim that this event that happened to me, should be used as an excuse to do wrong, or commit evil acts against citizens.
> 
> However, I deny that anyone have a "right" to come to the US.  And the constitution clearly and directly states that the US Federal government, has the constitution authority to determine who can come to the US.   Once you are a citizen, yes, you have religious freedom.  But we can have whatever rules, conditions, or qualifications we want for you to come here, and that includes a limitation against Islamic people coming here.
> 
> No one has a "right" to another country.   What is odd, is if you drive to Mexico, and demand they let you in without meeting their qualifications, you to to prison.    Most other countries are that way too.
> 
> Why anyone thinks we shouldn't be allowed to determine the requirements for people to come to our country, when nearly every other country does, is beyond me.
Click to expand...


Good post.   I used to work on the west side.... Grove city area.    Loads of Somali Muslims there.    Columbus is riddled with them.   

I do not doubt this account for one moment.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

StLucieBengal said:


> Trolls?    I guess leftist will over use any word until the meaning is irrelevant.


.[/QUOTE]

 Thank you for speaking truth to power.

I am reminded of the old line by Orwell "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act".


----------



## Andylusion

StLucieBengal said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StLucieBengal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would disagree.
> 
> Besides that, many of the described actions of these immigrants into Germany and other areas, is only shocking, if you don't know how it works in their home countries.   It's very normal single women, in rural and tribal settings, to be simply taken and given to men.  Syria even to this day has slavery of women, as a normal situation. Forced into slave labor, or prostitution, is normal in Syria, and other middle east countries.
> 
> The BBC did a documentary on this, where they interviewed existing, culturally adapted immigrants in Germany.   People who have lived there for some years, and are now German citizens who learned German, and are part of German society.   They themselves said, this wasn't surprising.  The actions of these immigrants, closely resembled how they would act in their own country.
> 
> Part of the reason women are still treated like property, and are closely guarded by their family and tribe, isn't just because of ancient views on women (though no doubt that is part of it), it's also for their protection.  You let your daughter wander outside the village, you are not likely to see her again.   Some men from another village, or other province, will come by and snatch them away.
> 
> Granted the more cosmopolitan cities of Syria, that isn't the case.  But immigrants are coming from all over, not just the more acceptable upscale city areas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great post.
> 
> This is the exact reason why I think none of these migrants should be allowed into the west.   It is too much of a burden on them to overcome.
> 
> How can they be expected to change their animalistic behavior?
> 
> A more reasonable destination for them is in other parts of their continents where this is permitted or accepted.     They would have a better chance to assimilate and fit in with those countries.
> 
> Really we are setting the Muslims up for failure by accepting into the west.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would actually agree with that view somewhat.   One thing that we could do, and should do, is require cultural adaptation.    Germany doesn't play around with immigrants.  You come, you must learn German.  Not "stop" and "go" and "Yes I want fries with that"... you have to be fluent in German, and the German government is willing to subsidize, (not 100% but to some level), German integration classes.
> 
> I support this.    I actually think that our STATE level government could encourage privately funded tax deducted, charities with subsidized English lessons, and basic American culture classes.
> 
> But beyond that, I agree with you.  Culturally, Islamic people's are completely and utterly different than us.  We have, no matter what the mindless left-wing anti-god people say, a Judaeo-Christian culture.   People from Christian based cultures will have a much easier time adapting to our culture, and we should encourage more Christian immigration.   But Islamic culture is fundamentally different, and causes all kinds of problems.
> 
> You can't shut down the entire assembly production plant, to have a dozen workers in Colorado, walk to the prayer room and face Mecca 3 times during the day.  And that is an unavoidable problem.
> 
> We just had a double Saturday over-time work shift.   The manager purchased Pizza for the entire crew.   Unfortunately, he under-estimated the number of Islamist in the group.   10 people crowded around one Veg-Pizza, and then were disappointed when there was not enough.
> 
> This isn't going to go away.  Culture matters.   So on that I think we shouldn't encourage Islamic immigration.  Not just to avoid problems ourselves, but also because it simply isn't good for them.  Unless of course, they wish to be Christian, and adopt our culture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fortunately we are a nation that has its foundation on religious freedom, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, or no religion at all.
> 
> What if it had been the number of vegetarians and pizza?  No religion there to blame.  Or Jews who follow the same dietary restrictions? Why do you refer to them as islamists, a term with a very specific meaning?
> 
> There is a concept known as "reasonable accommodation" when it comes employers and employees and religious freedom. If you look it up you will find many of the cases involve Christians, not surprisingly since they are the majority by far.  It allows for an appropriate balance between religious rights and freedoms and accommodations that prove too onerous or impact safety or ones ability to do their job. It's like recognizing the difference between the hijab and burka.
> 
> Most people who come here fleeing oppressive regimes come here appreciating that very freedom, including Muslims.  I've pointed out before that reputable polls of American Muslims show that their views are in line with those of other American groups on cultural issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I worked at a place, I like to call, little Arabia.
> 
> We had people building products, and cleaning them.  One day the manager came in, and said openly in front of everyone, cleaning the product is too easy for men.  Only women can clean them from now on.   The next day all the men were moved to other positions, and all the cleaners were veiled women.
> 
> 3 times during the day, everyone would step up, and walk to the back, and bang their heads on the ground toward Mecca.
> 
> On Friday, everyone would stand up and walk out, to go to the Mosque. They would leave at 11, and come back at 1.   Many a time, I would be sitting there working, and suddenly realize how quiet the place was, look up and find I was one of only 3 people in the room.
> 
> Occasionally, an Imam would actually come in, and speak their prayers over the PA system in the building.
> 
> After I had worked there for six or seven months, I found out that all the Christians and non-muslims, were paid a lower wage than all the Muslims.   In fact, I was the lowest paid guy in the building, even lower paid than their women 'easy-job' cleaners.
> 
> Additionally, I found out that the Muslims were paid, while they went to the Mosque on Friday.  While of course, Christians and other non-muslims were not paid for any time off the property.
> 
> *LASTLY....*
> 
> I want you to understand that I am not joking, and that I am not making any of this up.....  this job was in Hillard Ohio, off of Cemetery road, next to the Beacon Elementary School, on Lacon Rd.  43026.
> 
> While I was there, the co-worker next to me, was a Muslim man from Chicago.    He was born and raised American.   He and the two co-workers opposite us (one from Jordan, and one from Somalia, both Muslim) were quizzing him on Islam.   They questioned him on Arabic, on the pillars of Islam, and Islamic law.
> 
> Finally, the man from Jordan asked him about jihad.   Both the Somali and the Chicago man, announced openly that if the Imam's in the US called for holy war, they would fight with the Muslims to kill the non-believers. (they avoided 'infidels' for some reason).
> 
> All of them smiled at each other.... and then... I guess they remembered I was there.  All three looked at me... and then went back to work, not saying a word for the rest of the day.
> *
> You don't see any emotes on this post.  No jokes.  No sarcastic remarks.  This is a true statement of an actual event, that I am describing in accurate detail.*
> 
> Now for the record, I agree that all people who are US citizens, religious freedom is protected.    I would never claim that this event that happened to me, should be used as an excuse to do wrong, or commit evil acts against citizens.
> 
> However, I deny that anyone have a "right" to come to the US.  And the constitution clearly and directly states that the US Federal government, has the constitution authority to determine who can come to the US.   Once you are a citizen, yes, you have religious freedom.  But we can have whatever rules, conditions, or qualifications we want for you to come here, and that includes a limitation against Islamic people coming here.
> 
> No one has a "right" to another country.   What is odd, is if you drive to Mexico, and demand they let you in without meeting their qualifications, you to to prison.    Most other countries are that way too.
> 
> Why anyone thinks we shouldn't be allowed to determine the requirements for people to come to our country, when nearly every other country does, is beyond me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good post.   I used to work on the west side.... Grove city area.    Loads of Somali Muslims there.    Columbus is riddled with them.
> 
> I do not doubt this account for one moment.
Click to expand...


Oh yes.  Our lovely governor invited the Somalians to come, and came they did, in mass.     Now we have machete attacks.

Cops kill man after machete attack at Ohio deli

Apparently we need machete control laws, and machete waiting periods, and back ground checks, and mental illness tests for buying sharp objects.

Now don't get me wrong, I've had very good experiences with the Somali Muslims.  Extremely good.    But when you have that many people swarm into any given area in a short time... culture clash is going to happen.

And like I said before, when you have that many un-cultured people come in at the same time, they start acting like they would in their own country.   Machete attacks are common in the area of Africa they came from.  Now they are happening here.

Kind of like Angela Merkel, openly inviting Syrians, and shockingly floods of Syrians show up.

Maybe if we didn't openly invite them, while still allowing immigration, we wouldn't have these floods of people.

Like Obama saying under age Mexicans won't be deported, and then magically we have thousands of under age Mexicans stranded in the US.    Politicians I swear.... they simply don't think.


----------

