# Captain America: Civil War



## Never3ndr (May 7, 2016)

Best comic book movie since "The Dark Knight"

Highly recommended to go see in theaters.


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## aaronleland (May 7, 2016)

Never heard of it.


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## Blackrook (May 7, 2016)

My wife wants to see it tomorrow for Mother's Day, and then she requested we surprise her by taking her to Famous Dave's.


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## Harry Dresden (May 7, 2016)

aaronleland said:


> Never heard of it.


Captain America: Civil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## JoeB131 (May 8, 2016)

Never3ndr said:


> Best comic book movie since "The Dark Knight"
> 
> Highly recommended to go see in theaters.



I thought it was pretty good, but I didn't think it was that good. It was really m ore of an Avengers movie than a Captain America Movie.  Maybe they should title it "Avengers 2 1/2"


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## Harry Dresden (May 9, 2016)

JoeB131 said:


> Never3ndr said:
> 
> 
> > Best comic book movie since "The Dark Knight"
> ...


if you followed comics you would know better.....


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## Blackrook (May 9, 2016)

I was bored because I couldn't follow the story.  I saw the previous movies, but forgot all about them, so my son had to explain who the Winter Soldier was, and why he was important to Captain America, and what he did that caused all the problems to begin with.

Because they showed a small scene where he caused a car to crash on the side of the road, but that's the only hint they gave until way into the movie when I was already confused.

And I thought they made the story move forward by having Tony Stark carry the "idiot ball."  He basically acted really stupid and refused to listen to anything Captain America had to say, and then after he started listening, he became stupid again and demanded revenge, even though he knew the guy had been brainwashed.  So really, I didn't buy any of it.


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## JoeB131 (May 9, 2016)

Blackrook said:


> And I thought they made the story move forward by having Tony Stark carry the "idiot ball." He basically acted really stupid and refused to listen to anything Captain America had to say, and then after he started listening, he became stupid again and demanded revenge, even though he knew the guy had been brainwashed. So really, I didn't buy any of it.



Okay, that's one way of looking at it. 

Another way of looking at it was that the Stark character has gone from being someone who wanted to use his technical genius to help people, but over the course of five movies, has seen his technologies perverted into ways that hurt people. 

So by this movie, he has largely given up being Iron Man, and is perfectly willing to let the UN make decisions because, frankly, he hasn't had a really good track record up to this point. The confrontration with the mother whose son was killed in the last movie was pretty good. 

The thing that made this movie work for me was that you could see both Iron Man and Cap's point of view. Neither one of them was "wrong", and both of them were trying to find solutions to the problem.


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## Blackrook (May 9, 2016)

My sympathies were always on the side of Captain America.  For a superhero team to submit to the will of the United Nations, you might as well hang it up, because they will have you peacekeeping in some hellhole African country, while real problems are ignored.


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## JoeB131 (May 9, 2016)

Blackrook said:


> My sympathies were always on the side of Captain America.  For a superhero team to submit to the will of the United Nations, you might as well hang it up, because they will have you peacekeeping in some hellhole African country, while real problems are ignored.



Well, of course they are, because you are a Libertarian Loon with a dog-eared copy of Atlas Shrugged. 

Frankly, I look at Cap's character, and see a character that is totally at odds with the one from _Captain America II: The Winter Soldier_ who questioned unchecked authority when SHIELD wanted to put high-altitude helicarriers in the air, and was proven right when we found out SHIELD had been infiltrated by HYDRA.  

I had a harder time accepting his character's arc than I did Iron Man's.


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## Never3ndr (May 10, 2016)

Blackrook said:


> My sympathies were always on the side of Captain America.  For a superhero team to submit to the will of the United Nations, you might as well hang it up, because they will have you peacekeeping in some hellhole African country, while real problems are ignored.


I was actually against Captain America, and thought Stark had the right idea.  The only reason that Cap and the Avenger's actions are acceptable, in our eyes, are because they are doing what we think is "right".  But that is oftentimes pretty debatable.  Now, when it comes to world saving, like in the 1st or 2nd Avengers movies, I think that crying over collateral damage is missing the big picture...as the planet has been saved.  However, taking the specific incident in the movie that sparks all of this, the African incident, let's examine this from their perspective.  

Imagine that a foreign staffed and owned band of elite military personnel came into America.  In this case let us just say that they come from China.  Now, imagine that they came to fight a band of "terrorists" conducting operations on our soil, but that they had not told any of our leaders, military, or people that they were conducting said operations.  Now, let us put them in a highly populated city, maybe Boston, and have shit go south and have them end up killing (unintentionally) and injuring hundreds of American citizens.  Now, given this hypothetical scenario, where Chinese special forces came into our nation, didn't work with our people and caused a ton of collateral damage...would ANY of this by okay with the majority of Americans?  Hell no.  

Well, this is what they did in the opening sequence.  Now Cap is well-intentioned and he is, literally, an archetypal good guy superhero.  We are okay with his actions because we trust in his judgment and see it from his perspective.  However, if he was named Captain China and was running amok in our nation unchecked I'd hazard to say we may very well be on the opposite side...and with that in mind, I think that Stark is in the right here.


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## frigidweirdo (May 10, 2016)

Never3ndr said:


> Best comic book movie since "The Dark Knight"
> 
> Highly recommended to go see in theaters.



Seems like most films out now are comic book hero movies. I don't watch them, not my thing.


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## there4eyeM (May 10, 2016)

The movie certainly had high receipts; $181.79 million according to a source.


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## Blackrook (May 10, 2016)

Never3ndr said:


> Blackrook said:
> 
> 
> > My sympathies were always on the side of Captain America.  For a superhero team to submit to the will of the United Nations, you might as well hang it up, because they will have you peacekeeping in some hellhole African country, while real problems are ignored.
> ...


Captain America puts his faith in individuals, including himself.  Tony Stark puts his faith in the collective.  I think that's what this movie is about.


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## Harry Dresden (May 14, 2016)

Blackrook said:


> Never3ndr said:
> 
> 
> > Blackrook said:
> ...


Captain America has always been about protecting America even before he was given his abilities.....Tony Stark.....sometimes.....


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## 2aguy (May 19, 2016)

Never3ndr said:


> Blackrook said:
> 
> 
> > My sympathies were always on the side of Captain America.  For a superhero team to submit to the will of the United Nations, you might as well hang it up, because they will have you peacekeeping in some hellhole African country, while real problems are ignored.
> ...




And that is the thing...in a real world with the Avengers...do you think they would actually behave like that....that Steve Rogers would not coordinate with a government before the operation....?  That is where the movie forces the issue because they need to generate conflict.....

I haven't seen the movie yet.....is it true they want them supervised by the U.N..........the guys who stood by in Rwanda during the genocide of about 800,000 people...whose military are constantly implicated in sex trafficking in the countries they set up shop?  Who puts Iran, and Syria and other 3rd world monsters on human rights commisions....those are the people who should be in charge of calling on the Avengers?


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## 2aguy (May 19, 2016)

Seems like Stark has become a big government statist in this movie.....


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## 2aguy (May 19, 2016)

JoeB131 said:


> Blackrook said:
> 
> 
> > And I thought they made the story move forward by having Tony Stark carry the "idiot ball." He basically acted really stupid and refused to listen to anything Captain America had to say, and then after he started listening, he became stupid again and demanded revenge, even though he knew the guy had been brainwashed. So really, I didn't buy any of it.
> ...




Yeah....and he makes an even dumber decision to give up power to the U.N.....they have a great track record.......just ask the Rwandans.....


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## JoeB131 (May 19, 2016)

2aguy said:


> And that is the thing...in a real world with the Avengers...do you think they would actually behave like that....that Steve Rogers would not coordinate with a government before the operation....? That is where the movie forces the issue because they need to generate conflict.....
> 
> I haven't seen the movie yet.....is it true they want them supervised by the U.N..........the guys who stood by in Rwanda during the genocide of about 800,000 people...whose military are constantly implicated in sex trafficking in the countries they set up shop? Who puts Iran, and Syria and other 3rd world monsters on human rights commisions....those are the people who should be in charge of calling on the Avengers?



I'm sure the UN in their  universe is different than the one in ours.. 

But to the point, I can see why this movie upsets you.  The concept that people who are capable of doing some really dangerous stuff should be registered and monitored by the government.  Oh, the horror of it all.


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## JoeB131 (May 19, 2016)

2aguy said:


> Yeah....and he makes an even dumber decision to give up power to the U.N.....they have a great track record.......just ask the Rwandans.....



Are there Rawandans in the Marvel Universe? Weren't they annexed by Wakanda (The Black Panthers fictional country) 

I'm not sure what your complaint is with the UN? Could they have done something to prevent the Hutus and Tutsi's from killing each other?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  Theres just not a lot you can do when a whole country loses its mind.


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## 2aguy (May 19, 2016)

JoeB131 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah....and he makes an even dumber decision to give up power to the U.N.....they have a great track record.......just ask the Rwandans.....
> ...




Not maybe...they had stand down orders and watched slaughters take place....and the sex trafficking by U.N. Soldiers and workers is a well known scandal.....the U.N. Is a joke....and in the actual Marvel universe...how did SHIELD work out?  And the U.N. In their world would be any better?


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## JoeB131 (May 19, 2016)

2aguy said:


> Not maybe...they had stand down orders and watched slaughters take place....and the sex trafficking by U.N. Soldiers and workers is a well known scandal.....the U.N. Is a joke....and in the actual Marvel universe...how did SHIELD work out? And the U.N. In their world would be any better?



Again, not sure what you really expected a  few hundred UN peacekeeper to do when thousands of people were fighting with machetes and guns.. 

Now, SHIELD is on every Tuesday for hte last four seasons... oh, wait, that's not what you were going for, eh?  

Okay, seriously, I thought both sides made a good case for their positions, but they turned Cap into a Liberatarian Weenie who was insisting on the right to go into other people's countries and do whatever the fuck he wanted. And if innocent people got caught in the crossfire, that was their bad luck.


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## Blackrook (May 19, 2016)

The U.N. is controlled by third-world dictators who hate Israel and hate Jews.  I don't see why an American-based superhero team would want to recognize their authority.


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## JoeB131 (May 19, 2016)

Blackrook said:


> The U.N. is controlled by third-world dictators who hate Israel and hate Jews.  I don't see why an American-based superhero team would want to recognize their authority.



You really don't know how the UN works, do you?


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## Blackrook (May 19, 2016)

JoeB131 said:


> Blackrook said:
> 
> 
> > The U.N. is controlled by third-world dictators who hate Israel and hate Jews.  I don't see why an American-based superhero team would want to recognize their authority.
> ...


I'm sure I know a lot more about the UN than you do.


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## BlueGin (May 19, 2016)

Only a leftist loon pussy would expect super Hero's to allow themselves to be controlled by the government .


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## Blackrook (May 19, 2016)

The UN isn't the government, it is an organization of member states mostly consisting of backwards third-world countries in the Middle East and Africa that have a hostile view towards democracy and Western civilization.


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## JoeB131 (May 20, 2016)

Blackrook said:


> I'm sure I know a lot more about the UN than you do.



Yeah, you read all about it at the John Birch Society.


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## JoeB131 (May 20, 2016)

Blackrook said:


> The UN isn't the government, it is an organization of member states mostly consisting of backwards third-world countries in the Middle East and Africa that have a hostile view towards democracy and Western civilization.



Yeah, you mean the majority of it's members were at one time European Colonies that got looted by European Empires, and they don't have a particularly favorable view of the countries that stole their shit and killed their people. 

Hmmmmm... I wonder why.


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## Syriusly (May 20, 2016)

I liked Winter Soldier quite a bit more.

What I liked about Civil War:
The new Spider Man- very fun, great retro Spider Man
Ant Man was great comic relief
I liked the basic struggle between the two groups- though I thought it was overplayed more than it was in Winter Soldier. The point was not about 'The United Nations'- it could have just as easily have been the United States insisting on the control and registration of the "Enhanced Individuals".

And at its base the movie showed two viewpoints of allowing individuals to decide what is best- Captain American and his band ignore the governments demands and pursue the bad guy- for the best of reasons.

But the bad guy- is acting according to what he thinks is best for humanity- and in the end he is the one who permanently eliminated super individuals who might have been able to beat Captain America or the Winter Soldier. But the bad guy intentionally kills innocent people along the way, and tortures to get his information. 

On the bad side- I thought the movie was too busy. Probably unavoidable with all of the characters involved. I thought Avengers 1 did a fine job of portraying each character well, and Avengers 2 did a good job- this movie much less so.


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## Fiero425 (May 20, 2016)

Syriusly said:


> I liked Winter Soldier quite a bit more.
> 
> What I liked about Civil War:
> The new Spider Man- very fun, great retro Spider Man
> ...



I can't wait to see it; but I will! I usually never go to the theater and either buy the DVD or wait until it hits cable! I hate these new multi-cineplexes; blasting sound enough to bust an eardrum! People talk louder to be heard and they still allow these losers to use their cells inside! I haven't been to one since taking my nieces and nephew to see "Poppins' Penguins!" That's been many years! I've only been 5 or 6 times in 30 years when I used to really enjoy going all the time in the 70's! I can still remember the movies I did check out; "Clue, J Carpenter's, Prince of Darkness, Hell's Gate, and someone took me to see Interview W/ A Vampire!" I can wait patiently to see in my own good time even if it's something great! ;-/


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## Syriusly (May 20, 2016)

Fiero425 said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > I liked Winter Soldier quite a bit more.
> ...



Each to his own.

We enjoy going to the movies, luckily we have some theaters which are not the typical multiplexes even when they are mulitple theaters.

Some movies I just want to see the big screen.


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