# remington 700...misfires??



## strollingbones

interesting special on the remington 700 and the deaths by misfire.  

a rifle you have to disengage the safety on to unload....


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## Madeline

OMG, I saw this bones.  Tragic.....and should be criminal.

Remington 700 under fire for deadly flaws - MSNBC - VideoWired.com - Get Wired!


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## Ringel05

If this is the case then something needs to be done and Remington needs to answer however a lot of people and police agencies do special modifications to these rifles which could also be causing the problem.  Hard to tell with only a short news blip that may or may not tell the whole story.


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## strollingbones

it was an hour show...you need to check it out ring....seems remington has known this for a while...

you have to disengage the safety to unload the gun....it fires if you touch the bolt...


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## strollingbones

Another Lawsuit Alleges Remington Model 700 Misfire


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## Mini 14

This has happened to me on a 700 in .270 I purchased in 2006. I was sitting in the woods in North Georgia one morning a couple of years ago, waiting on a deer. I raised the rifle on a coyote I saw behind a tree about 100 yards away. I decided to try a shot, as it was getting later in the morning and the deer just weren't moving. As I disengaged the safety, the rifle discharged with my finger alongside the outside of the trigger guard.

I've never loaded it again, and I never will.

I'm not a big fan of Remington (won't fire ANY of their ammo out of ANY gun), but they made some good stuff before 1960 or so. 

There is also a recall on the Remington .17s.....597 I think? And all of their 17HMR ammo.


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## Ringel05

strollingbones said:


> it was an hour show...you need to check it out ring....seems remington has known this for a while...
> 
> you have to disengage the safety to unload the gun....it fires if you touch the bolt...


I just did some initial online research and discovered a slew of articles concerning the 700.  There appears to be a flaw in the Walker trigger group that all 700s use, Remingtons contention (back in the late 70s) was only about 1% of all 700s were affected with this so called "tricking" and that was due to improper use of the safety mechanism, unfortunately the problem looks even worse as these rifles get older and wear begins to be a factor.  It also appears Remingtons decision not to do a recall based on the 1% finding was a bad decision as it was done for economic rather than safety reasons and they need to be held liable for that decision.


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## Ringel05

Mini 14 said:


> This has happened to me on a 700 in .270 I purchased in 2006. I was sitting in the woods in North Georgia one morning a couple of years ago, waiting on a deer. I raised the rifle on a coyote I saw behind a tree about 100 yards away. I decided to try a shot, as it was getting later in the morning and the deer just weren't moving. As I disengaged the safety, the rifle discharged with my finger alongside the outside of the trigger guard.
> 
> I've never loaded it again, and I never will.
> 
> I'm not a big fan of Remington (won't fire ANY of their ammo out of ANY gun), but they made some good stuff before 1960 or so.
> 
> There is also a recall on the Remington .17s.....597 I think? And all of their 17HMR ammo.



The 700 is a great rifle just replace the Walker trigger group with the Jewell and you'll have a great rifle again.
It ain't cheap but it's better than having an expensive club sitting around.
Jewell Rifle Trigger Remington 700, 40X with Safety 1-1/2 oz to 3 lb Stainless Steel - MidwayUSA


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## 52ndStreet

strollingbones said:


> interesting special on the remington 700 and the deaths by misfire.
> 
> a rifle you have to disengage the safety on to unload....



I saw the documentary on this Remington 700 rifle on msnbc. Very scary, and shocking.
To think that the company knew about the dangers of this Rilfe misfireing, and possibly causing deaths, well before mass production of the Rifle,and then proceeding to produce
the Rifle, and covering up the the desigh flaw, seems criminal, and satanic that a company 
can do something like this , and get away with it. People have been killed, and maimed because of this willfull negligence. Capitalism at its worse. A situation were money and profits are valued more than human life.


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## uscitizen

I will bet some executives got bonuses for the 700 production.


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## bigrebnc1775

Ringel05 said:


> If this is the case then something needs to be done and Remington needs to answer however a lot of people and police agencies do special modifications to these rifles which could also be causing the problem.  Hard to tell with only a short news blip that may or may not tell the whole story.


It's true the 700 will misfire when you engage the safety. Thats why I would never own one. Thats how regulating working. Be enformed and don't buy it. No need for government intervention.


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## bigrebnc1775

Mini 14 said:


> This has happened to me on a 700 in .270 I purchased in 2006. I was sitting in the woods in North Georgia one morning a couple of years ago, waiting on a deer. I raised the rifle on a coyote I saw behind a tree about 100 yards away. I decided to try a shot, as it was getting later in the morning and the deer just weren't moving. As I disengaged the safety, the rifle discharged with my finger alongside the outside of the trigger guard.
> 
> I've never loaded it again, and I never will.
> 
> I'm not a big fan of Remington (won't fire ANY of their ammo out of ANY gun), but they made some good stuff before 1960 or so.
> 
> There is also a recall on the Remington .17s.....597 I think? And all of their 17HMR ammo.



This is hoiw regulating works don't buy it and they will not produce it.. BTW Remiington makes a great shotgun the 870 12 gauge, used by many police depertments


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## strollingbones

surely you dont expect someone who knows little about guns to realize THE GUN WILL FIRE WITH THE SAFETY ON

kinda defeats the whole purpose of the safety now doesnt it....

yes the government should intervene..when you are sold a gun with a safety that the gun manufactorer knows doesnt work?  

it would be like selling a fire extinguisher that you know wont extinguish a fire.....

i am a gun owner and fully support the 2nd admn and our right to bear arms...but that does not give anyone the ability to produce a deadly product


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## Mini 14

strollingbones said:


> surely you dont expect someone who knows little about guns to realize THE GUN WILL FIRE WITH THE SAFETY ON
> 
> kinda defeats the whole purpose of the safety now doesnt it....
> 
> yes the government should intervene..when you are sold a gun with a safety that the gun manufactorer knows doesnt work?
> 
> it would be like selling a fire extinguisher that you know wont extinguish a fire.....
> 
> i am a gun owner and fully support the 2nd admn and our right to bear arms...but that does not give anyone the ability to produce a deadly product



I agree with Bones on this one. Remington has 2 guns that unquestionably need to be recalled (the 700 and the 597). They are trying to skirt their culpability, but how many have to die before they just do the right thing and admit they made a mistake. Its going to cost money, but if you can't make ass-loads of money in today's gun industry, you're an idiot.

For the most part, everything Remington has made since 1990 is vastly inferior to other products out there. Other than the VTR, I can't think of any new Remington I'm even remotely interested in, and though everything I've heard about the VTR is good, its built on the 700 platform and that is the reason I haven't bought or sold one yet.


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## CMike

strollingbones said:


> interesting special on the remington 700 and the deaths by misfire.
> 
> a rifle you have to disengage the safety on to unload....



A misfire doesn't fire, so how does it hurt anyone?


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## strollingbones

misfire referring to firing without touching the trigger....there have been deaths...imagine knowing you didnt touch the trigger and yet killed someone?  what kinda doubts would you have?  imagine shooting your leg off...cause you were carrying your rifle pointing down and with the safety on...imagine doing everything you have ever been taught about guns and still killing someone..cause it fires with the safety on and toss this in...without you touching the trigger...the military films showed it firing when someone touched the bolt...over and over


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## CMike

You mean an accidental discharge?

Do you have proof of this?


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## Mini 14

Mike,
Its for real:

Remington 700 under fire for deadly flaws - MSNBC - VideoWired.com - Get Wired!

And I have had it happen to me as well, on a 700 in 270 I bought in 2006 or 2007.


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## Ringel05

CMike said:


> You mean an accidental discharge?
> 
> Do you have proof of this?



Just Google it and you will find tons of evidence.  As I told Mini-14 previously if you own one replace the stock Weaver trigger group with a Jewell and that will eliminate the problem.
There are also supposedly adjustments you can make to the Weaver that will correct the problem but unless you know what you are doing I would leave that to a gunsmith.


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## strollingbones

mike you might wanna read the whole thread before jumping in and making an ass of yourself


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## Mini 14

Ringel......on an unrelated note......

Best trigger for a 10/22 ?


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## CMike

I will investigate it further, however, I don't trust MSNBC as a legitimate source. It has a left wing agenda.

As far as someone being injured that could have been avoided if the four rules of gun safety had been followed.

The 1st Law of Gun Safety - The Gun Is Always Loaded!

The 2nd Law of Gun Safety - Never Point A Gun At Something You're Not Prepared To Destroy!

The 3rd Law of Gun Safety - Always Be Sure Of Your Target And What Is Behind It!

The 4th Law of Gun Safety - Keep Your Finger Off The Trigger Until Your Sights Are On The Target!


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## CMike

strollingbones said:


> mike you might wanna read the whole thread before jumping in and making an ass of yourself



Really? What's a misfire?


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## strollingbones

a conversation with you?


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## CMike

strollingbones said:


> a conversation with you?



I wish


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## CMike

This is Remington's response.

Remington Model 700&#8482;


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## CMike

If it's from MSNBC the presumption is that the story is false.


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## bigrebnc1775

CMike said:


> If it's from MSNBC the presumption is that the story is false.



Mike it's true the 700 has mis fired a few times while being tested by the military


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## bigrebnc1775

strollingbones said:


> surely you dont expect someone who knows little about guns to realize THE GUN WILL FIRE WITH THE SAFETY ON
> 
> kinda defeats the whole purpose of the safety now doesnt it....
> 
> yes the government should intervene..when you are sold a gun with a safety that the gun manufactorer knows doesnt work?
> 
> it would be like selling a fire extinguisher that you know wont extinguish a fire.....
> 
> i am a gun owner and fully support the 2nd admn and our right to bear arms...but that does not give anyone the ability to produce a deadly product



10 years ago I would have agreed wih you, but since comncation are better all someone has to do is a search for what eve they are looking for. Word of mouth is the best regulation known to man. I


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## CMike

bigrebnc1775 said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it's from MSNBC the presumption is that the story is false.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike it's true the 700 has mis fired a few times while being tested by the military
Click to expand...


A misfire means it didn't fire.

You mean an accidental discharge.


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## bigrebnc1775

CMike said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it's from MSNBC the presumption is that the story is false.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike it's true the 700 has mis fired a few times while being tested by the military
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A misfire means it didn't fire.
> 
> You mean an accidental discharge.
Click to expand...


Sorry my bad


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## CMike

bigrebnc1775 said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it's from MSNBC the presumption is that the story is false.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike it's true the 700 has mis fired a few times while being tested by the military
Click to expand...


How do you know? Did you watch the Remington response?


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## bigrebnc1775

CMike said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it's from MSNBC the presumption is that the story is false.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike it's true the 700 has mis fired a few times while being tested by the military
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How do you know? Did you watch the Remington response?
Click to expand...


I've seen it happen and I have watched the military test them on the firing range.


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## CMike

Yet the AD can not be duplicated on well maintained 700 rifles.

Why is that?


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## bigrebnc1775

CMike said:


> Yet the AD can not be duplicated on well maintained 700 rifles.
> 
> Why is that?



Hopnestly I do not  have an answer. I'm just saying I seen it happen.


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## CMike

Why did the military buy zillions more?


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## bigrebnc1775

CMike said:


> Why did the military buy zillions more?



Why does the DOD do a lot of things they do already?

Mike I am not bashing the 700. I have TWO Hi Points and I think most gun owners know the history with the Hi Point. I like them so good I plan on getting the 4595 carbine.


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## CMike

bigrebnc1775 said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why did the military buy zillions more?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why does the DOD do a lot of things they do already?
> 
> Mike I am not bashing the 700. I have TWO Hi Points and I think most gun owners know the history with the Hi Point. I like them so good I plan on getting the 4595 carbine.
Click to expand...


I am having a hard time believing the MSNBC report.


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## strollingbones

think of this mike...if the msnbc report is wrong...why hasnt remington sued their asses off the air?

think of that...if you were producing a product and i was yapping on the air about it killing people....wouldnt you want to shut me down?


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## bigrebnc1775

strollingbones said:


> think of this mike...if the msnbc report is wrong...why hasnt remington sued their asses off the air?
> 
> think of that...if you were producing a product and i was yapping on the air about it killing people....wouldnt you want to shut me down?



Yes you would. Hell there are many liberal I would like to shut down for running my country down.


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## strollingbones

my point is simply....there is some truth to this matter...and who the hell makes a weapon that the safety must be disengaged to unload the rife?

i think the dod continues to buy them and use them with modification cause they are a solid rifle.  no one is advocating removing the 700 but simply thinking that the modification needed to make them safe should be done at the factory...and i think if its proven remington willingly and knowingly continued to manufactor with this defect then yes they must face the consequences of their actions.


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## Mini 14

I'll be happy to send them mine. The last time it was fired, the trigger was not pulled, and it hasn't been fired since. I am looking into replacing the trigger group to see if that would solve the problem, but have not done so yet. There is no question this one fired as the safety was disengaged, with my finger outside the trigger guard, and there is no question that as it is, I have absolutely no confidence in it, will not sell it, will never fire it again, and keep the bolt in a separate safe from the receiver.

That said, I own 2 other 700s that I have never had an issue with, and are among my most reliable hunting rifles. But this is the newest of the bunch, and likely the last "modern" Remington I will ever purchase.


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## Ringel05

Was it new when you purchased it?

I've been doing some more research on this and am finding many conflicting stories to include a good analysis of the MSNBC story.  It appears MSNBC did the usual "hatchet job" reporting that most every media outlet does when trying to sell a story for ratings or other motives.  What other sources suspect and in some incidents have proven is in most cases the trigger group has been improperly modified by the armorer or by the individual owner and/or simply the age and amount of use the rifle experienced, i.e. wear and tear.


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## strollingbones

it is a question that needs to be answered ...simple as that....

i dont know a whole lot about guns....never claim to be an expert....but i do know that the guns i have.....the safety works.....even the older than me guns....


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## Ringel05

strollingbones said:


> it is a question that needs to be answered ...simple as that....
> 
> i dont know a whole lot about guns....never claim to be an expert....but i do know that the guns i have.....the safety works.....even the older than me guns....



Bones, I'm not defending Remington, I'm simply letting you know I've found conflicting info/evidence and what that info/evidence is.
Wear and tear was just one possibility and the most minor one.  The military and police both modify these weapons to fit their needs and if someone screws up the modification..........
Same with a lot of "gun' enthusiasts, they like to "tinker" with the trigger groups for a variety of reasons, if the specs are really tight and the modification is done wrong, you will have issues.


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## strollingbones

o i understand your point ring....just still dont see this being all about wear and tear...it happens a lot...i realize this could be like the dog that bites the most is always a real popular dog....the remington is mainstay....but is it dangerous?  of course all guns are dangerous to a point.


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## strollingbones

mini says his fired without trigger action....mini seems to know his guns and they are one of his businesses...

mike seem to be simply upset that anyone suggests anything is wrong with the 700


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## CMike

strollingbones said:


> my point is simply....there is some truth to this matter...and who the hell makes a weapon that the safety must be disengaged to unload the rife?
> 
> i think the dod continues to buy them and use them with modification cause they are a solid rifle.  no one is advocating removing the 700 but simply thinking that the modification needed to make them safe should be done at the factory...and i think if its proven remington willingly and knowingly continued to manufactor with this defect then yes they must face the consequences of their actions.



If they are modified that is what the problem probably is.


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## CMike

Ringel05 said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> it is a question that needs to be answered ...simple as that....
> 
> i dont know a whole lot about guns....never claim to be an expert....but i do know that the guns i have.....the safety works.....even the older than me guns....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bones, I'm not defending Remington, I'm simply letting you know I've found conflicting info/evidence and what that info/evidence is.
> Wear and tear was just one possibility and the most minor one.  The military and police both modify these weapons to fit their needs and if someone screws up the modification..........
> Same with a lot of "gun' enthusiasts, they like to "tinker" with the trigger groups for a variety of reasons, if the specs are really tight and the modification is done wrong, you will have issues.
Click to expand...


That could be the problem.

If it's tinkered with or modified that could cause the problem.

I think it's rather strange that with a well maintained non modified gun the accidental discharge hasn't been able to be replicated.


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## Mini 14

Ringel05 said:


> Was it new when you purchased it?
> 
> I've been doing some more research on this and am finding many conflicting stories to include a good analysis of the MSNBC story.  It appears MSNBC did the usual "hatchet job" reporting that most every media outlet does when trying to sell a story for ratings or other motives.  What other sources suspect and in some incidents have proven is in most cases the trigger group has been improperly modified by the armorer or by the individual owner and/or simply the age and amount of use the rifle experienced, i.e. wear and tear.



Yes, mine was brand new when I bought it, having passed from Remington, to the wholesaler, to me (I am an FFL). It had approximately 50 rounds through it at the time of the discharge, and had been cleaned meticulously after each outing. I had made no alterations to the firearm, other than mounting a scope and sling.


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## 52ndStreet

52ndStreet said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> interesting special on the remington 700 and the deaths by misfire.
> 
> a rifle you have to disengage the safety on to unload....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saw the documentary on this Remington 700 rifle on msnbc. Very scary, and shocking.
> To think that the company knew about the dangers of this Rilfe misfireing, and possibly causing deaths, well before mass production of the Rifle,and then proceeding to produce
> the Rifle, and covering up the the desigh flaw, seems criminal, and satanic that a company
> can do something like this , and get away with it. People have been killed, and maimed because of this willfull negligence. Capitalism at its worse. A situation were money and profits are valued more than human life.
Click to expand...


You have got to see the msnbc documentary to see the people who were killed and maimed,
and the man that designed the Remington 700 rifle.To really feel the impact of this whole
situation with the Rifle and Remington.!


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## KissMy

I saw that CNBC Remington 700 special a month ago & have found it to be half bullshit. You can't believe anything you see on any NBC (Nothing But Communism) channel or production. If you watch closely you will notice that the lady who accidentally shot her son never utters a single word during the entire report. The paid witness tells a completely different story under oath.

Contrary to CNBCs report stating that in the 1970's Remington developed the Ten Commandments of Firearms Safety campaign instead of fixing the guns.  SAAMI documents "Beginning in the 1920s, the &#8220;Ten Commandments of Gun Safety&#8221; paved the way for a broad-based safety campaign that today"

I have been at the reporting location of 3 TEA Party events broadcast by these lier's & they totally edited video, misrepresented & flat out lied about what actually took place. If you believe anything you see on TV you are an idiot.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYKQJ4-N7LI"]MSNBC Report of Angry White TEA Activist toting Guns.[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jwg-f3dqN4&feature=related"]Fox News Busting MSNBC[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7syx26QtQIM&NR=1"]ABC Report of the same White I mean Black TEA Activist toting Guns.[/ame]

*NBC = Nothing But Communism
MSNBC = Marxist Socialist Network Broadcasting Communism
CNBC = Communist National Broadcasting Company*


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## CMike

Mini 14 said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was it new when you purchased it?
> 
> I've been doing some more research on this and am finding many conflicting stories to include a good analysis of the MSNBC story.  It appears MSNBC did the usual "hatchet job" reporting that most every media outlet does when trying to sell a story for ratings or other motives.  What other sources suspect and in some incidents have proven is in most cases the trigger group has been improperly modified by the armorer or by the individual owner and/or simply the age and amount of use the rifle experienced, i.e. wear and tear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, mine was brand new when I bought it, having passed from Remington, to the wholesaler, to me (I am an FFL). It had approximately 50 rounds through it at the time of the discharge, and had been cleaned meticulously after each outing. I had made no alterations to the firearm, other than mounting a scope and sling.
Click to expand...

Did you call Remington? Perhaps send it in?


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## jimbetty123

he Remington 700 is a line of bolt-action centerfire hunting rifles that is manufactured by Remington Arms, along with Remington Military and Remington Law Enforcement models. These rifles are considered by many to be the most accurate production rifles currently on the market, which come ready to use right out of the box.2 The Remington 700 was first produced in 1962 and continues to be available in many stock, barrel and caliber configurations.

In addition to new versions of the Remington 700, preowned Remington 700 rifles are available through various merchants and distributors nationwide.3 Even customized, competition chambered Remington 700 rifles with warranties can be purchased through shops and over the Internet.4 Previously owned but unfired Remington 700 rifles can also be found through online stores. These are rifles which are sold by private owners who have never used them


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## Mini 14

Update:

After all the discussion here, I was reminded of my 700, which as I've said has sat in the safe for over two years. As luck would have it, I have another interview with ATF later this week or early next. I called my agent to discuss the interview, and mentioned that I had a 700 I wanted them to look at. I'm going to let them have it for a while to play with. We'll see if they're able to replicate the problem and I'll post updates as I get them. Keep in mind, this isn't going to be a priority to them, so I either expect to hear something right away (my agent is a good buddy who likes to shoot, so he may take it himself and go play with it right away), or 6 months from now.....and "never" is a strong possibility as well  

In the meantime, I sighted in an older 700 I've used for decades, as well as a new VTR in .308 that I plan on using some this year. 95% of my "deer hunting" is now done with a Marlin 45/70 with iron sights (I just don't shoot at deer anymore, unless its Megarack or a small doe for jerkey.....wife and daughter hate venison), but the old 700 has killed many a coyote, and the new .308 is going to get a lot of chances to.


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## MikeK

I had a 700 in .243 back in the mid-60s.  I suppose I shot it 100 times or more and never had a problem.  About a year or two after I bought it I got interested in archery and sold it (along with several other guns) but I've always thought the Remington 700 BDL was an exceptionally beautiful rifle.  And as I recall it was deadly accurate.  

I recently saw the MSNBC special on the 700 and I hope the fellow I sold it to didn't have the problem with it and think that's why I sold it to him.


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## Missourian

strollingbones said:


> misfire referring to firing without touching the trigger....there have been deaths...imagine knowing you didnt touch the trigger and yet killed someone?  what kinda doubts would you have?  imagine shooting your leg off...cause you were carrying your rifle pointing down and with the safety on...*imagine doing everything you have ever been taught about guns and still killing someone*..cause it fires with the safety on and toss this in...without you touching the trigger...the military films showed it firing when someone touched the bolt...over and over




You couldn't do everything you were taught and still kill someone.

You couldn't even get past rule 1.
*1. ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.*
This  is the primary rule of gun safety. A safe direction means that the gun  is pointed so that even if it were to go off it would not cause injury  or damage. The key to this rule is to control where the muzzle or front  end of the barrel is pointed at all times. Common sense dictates the  safest direction, depending on different circumstances.​NRA Gun Safety Rules


EDIT - rereading this post,  it sounds kinda adversarial and preachy,  that's not my intention.  My point is ANY weapon can malfunction and it is extremely important it is to follow these safety guidelines when handling a firearm.


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