# Gov. Rick Scott Rejects Funding for High Speed Rail.



## WillowTree (Feb 16, 2011)

Gov. Rick Scott rejects funding for high-speed rail - St. Petersburg Times





*Florida is the third large state to reject the rail funding, joining Ohio and Wisconsin. Florida's share would have been much larger that of the other two states.*




Good for Rick Scott.


----------



## Anachronism (Feb 16, 2011)

Whether I agree with it or not; at least he's putting his convictions into ACTION rather than claiming to be against it and taking the money anyway. That's something I can admire, either way.


----------



## peach174 (Feb 16, 2011)

Good for him.
High speed rail means private citizens are going to lose some or perhaps all of their land in order to put the rail tracks down.
Not only that but we can't afford it. These things always cost more than they ever project in spending.


----------



## Mad Scientist (Feb 16, 2011)

As my wife and I were watching the new this morning this subject came up and my wife asked: "AmTrak looses money and apparently people don't use it much. Why would High Speed Rail be any different?"


----------



## boedicca (Feb 16, 2011)

Good for him.  He avoided an expensive maintenance headache for his state.


----------



## EdSchultzIsFat (Feb 16, 2011)

I live in Florida, first of all, we dont need high speed rail, we need jobs for almost a million residents! and we aren't that dumb! where does Obama get his estimates on the cost of a High Speed Rail? From Senator Stuart Smalley? And whats the point of a high speed rail in a state with 12% Unemployment? you can create alot of jobs with those Billions that were about to go to waist on that project!
You should post this under Politics, you would get alot of responses!


----------



## peach174 (Feb 16, 2011)

Mad Scientist said:


> As my wife and I were watching the new this morning this subject came up and my wife asked: "AmTrak looses money and apparently people don't use it much. Why would High Speed Rail be any different?"



It's a pet peeve of VP Joe Biden's that's why.


----------



## EdSchultzIsFat (Feb 16, 2011)

and Obama wanted to put a speed rail from LA to Vegas? Did Obama forget that they have earthquakes there>?


----------



## JamesInFlorida (Feb 16, 2011)

EdSchultzIsFat said:


> I live in Florida, first of all, we dont need high speed rail, we need jobs for almost a million residents! and we aren't that dumb! where does Obama get his estimates on the cost of a High Speed Rail? From Senator Stuart Smalley? And whats the point of a high speed rail in a state with 12% Unemployment? you can create alot of jobs with those Billions that were about to go to waist on that project!
> You should post this under Politics, you would get alot of responses!



First of all Rick Scott has been meeting with private-sector business people about potentially investing in the high speed rails. It was about a month ago when he met with business people from Japan over it. So no he's not against high speed rail-he's against federal funding for it.

Gov. Scott meets with Japanese Foreign Minister to discuss high-speed rail


Now why would a high speed rail be good for our state? Well our economy is obviously dependent on tourism. Sales tax alone from them brings in TONS of cash to the state, and allows us nice benefits-we don't cringe as much as others on these boards when it's time to pay our income taxes.

Now the high speed rail would make it easy for tourists to get around to different areas of the state. A tourist in Orlando might not get down to Miami, or Tampa-but with a high speed rail system, they'd be much more likely to. Therefore they'd spend more money-and in different areas of the state-boosting our economy.

Our state's economy is different from other states-and has to be viewed as such.


----------



## Claudette (Feb 16, 2011)

JamesInFlorida said:


> EdSchultzIsFat said:
> 
> 
> > I live in Florida, first of all, we dont need high speed rail, we need jobs for almost a million residents! and we aren't that dumb! where does Obama get his estimates on the cost of a High Speed Rail? From Senator Stuart Smalley? And whats the point of a high speed rail in a state with 12% Unemployment? you can create alot of jobs with those Billions that were about to go to waist on that project!
> ...



I live down her in Florida also and agree that a Statwide high speed rail would be a good thing for the tourist trade. We have plenty of that. It would be nice to visit all parts of the State and not take hours to drive there. 

The Japanese say they would foot 60% of the cost so thats even better. 

Gov Scott is supposed to be visiting Japan to speak with folks. We could sure use jobs what with the Space program closing down. 

I for one will be hoping he is successfull.


----------



## uscitizen (Feb 16, 2011)

How many people realize that the people of Florida thru a balloot measure approved high speed rail years ago and Jeb Bush killed it against the democratic choice?


----------



## JamesInFlorida (Feb 16, 2011)

uscitizen said:


> How many people realize that the people of Florida thru a balloot measure approved high speed rail years ago and Jeb Bush killed it against the democratic choice?



The people of Florida then voted against funding it, in all fairness. It was even on the ballot this past election-and lost.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Feb 16, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> Gov. Rick Scott rejects funding for high-speed rail - St. Petersburg Times
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He must have some brains if he is against letting the government run another rail system in this country...just look to AMTRACK for why I say this  (hint amtrack is a money losing operation funded by our tax dollars)


----------



## Sallow (Feb 16, 2011)

Big surprise here. Backward thinking conservatives thinking..um..backwards.


----------



## ogibillm (Feb 16, 2011)

Mad Scientist said:


> As my wife and I were watching the new this morning this subject came up and my wife asked: "AmTrak looses money and apparently people don't use it much. Why would High Speed Rail be any different?"



your wife is dumb.

amtrak is not high-speed, and still some people use it.

right now you can take a train from st. louis to chicago - a 6 hour trip - for about $40. It cousts 6 to 7 times that to fly - but the flight only takes one hour. of course, you need to get to the airport an hour before hand for security - and you get the 'pleasure' of going through all of that so really you're saving only about 4 hours tops.

now what if the train made the trip in 3.5 hours? would avoiding airport security and saving hundreds of dollars be worth your 90 minutes? it would be for a lot of people.


----------



## Mr Natural (Feb 16, 2011)

Fuck 'em!

No high speed rail service for them then.


----------



## AmericanFirst (Feb 16, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Gov. Rick Scott rejects funding for high-speed rail - St. Petersburg Times
> ...


Everything the gov't. gets its fingers into is a failure.Wait till obamacare takes affect!


----------



## AmericanFirst (Feb 16, 2011)

Sallow said:


> Big surprise here. Backward thinking conservatives thinking..um..backwards.


Thinking better than socialist dimwit liberals.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Feb 16, 2011)




----------



## WillowTree (Feb 16, 2011)

ogibillm said:


> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> > As my wife and I were watching the new this morning this subject came up and my wife asked: "AmTrak looses money and apparently people don't use it much. Why would High Speed Rail be any different?"
> ...



How's that Amtrak budget working out? You D
U M     b


----------



## midcan5 (Feb 16, 2011)

Imagine if Queen Isabella were a republican, or even think back a bit longer, imagine the first caveman to say we can farm, and live outside. Jeez, thankfully not everyone is a conservative republican as we would still be living in a cave howling at the moon. 

Lord, what sad people these republicans are, they too shall pass.

"President Eisenhower describes his administration's political philosophy as 'dynamic conservatism,' then as 'progressive, dynamic conservatism,' then as 'progressive moderation,' then as 'moderate progressivism,' and then as 'positive progressivism.'"  William Manchester

"All progress is based upon a universal innate desire on the part of every organism to live beyond its income."  Samuel Butler 

In the mid fifties, "generosity was voted the most conspicuous American characteristic, followed by friendliness, understanding, piety, love of freedom, and progressivism.  The American faults listed were petty: shallowness, egotism, extravagance, preoccupation with money, and selfishness." William Manchester in "The Glory and the Dream" quoting George Gallup's Institute of public opinion.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Feb 16, 2011)

23,000 construction jobs, there's a good chance the private sector would pick up the state's share of the funding, and the contracts were to stipulate the contractors would absorb the cost overruns.



Scott is moron.

Rick Scott rejects high-speed rail: Gov. Rick Scott says he's rejecting federal high-speed rail money - OrlandoSentinel.com.


----------



## Old Rocks (Feb 16, 2011)

Scott? The same Scott that stole 1.7 billion from Medicare that we know of? Probably figures he has a better chance on getting his hands on a few billion of the funds if he is working with the Japanese.


----------



## auditor0007 (Feb 17, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Gov. Rick Scott rejects funding for high-speed rail - St. Petersburg Times
> ...



A couple of quick points; first off Amtrack is not high speed rail.  It takes forever to get anywhere on Amtrack.  Secondly, we are going to need high speed rail sooner than most think.  It's hard to say how long it will be until gas prices hit $5 to $7 per gallon, but when that time comes, air travel is going to become extremely expensive.

The need for high speed rail is here, and the need for it is only going to increase in time.  What doesn't make sense is starting with high speed rail in places like Florida, Ohio, and Wisconsin.  What would make sense is to start with states like California and the entire Northeast where population density is the greatest.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Feb 17, 2011)

auditor0007 said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



I'm not against a High Speed Rail system at all.

 Right now with our current debt and defecit we can't afford to let the government start a new program like this, especially when the government has proven inept at staying within budget and making a profit.


----------



## Toro (Feb 17, 2011)

There is an article in today's St Pete Times saying that he may not have the power to reject the funds. The governor of Florida is actually one of the weaker governorships in the country. I will post the link later.


----------



## mdn2000 (Feb 17, 2011)

California is starting High Speed rail, its going to start in Fresno, nice place to start, I have never been to Fresno, I will never go to Fresno, Fresno is actually out of the way if your going to San Fransico, at best this is public transportation for people on welfare. 

Will I ever use high speed rail, no, to dangerous, one bomb along the tracks and thats it. 

I did use Amtrack a few times between Pittsburg and Detroit, it took about 12 hours, a good 4 hours longer then if I drove. 

Another time I took Amtrack from Chicago to Los Angeles, it took two days, nice to see the country, the entire coach section was White Trash and Hip Hop gang bangers bragging about their deals in the hood. 

It was not to bad, they stayed in the smoking lounge and never spent any time in the Dinner car or the at the bar. 

Another time, between Orange county and San Diego I took the Amtrack. It took almost four hours. I was furious. When I bought the ticket I complained about the 20$ price, the government ticket agent said the price is good, they sell out all the time, I looked at the train, looked at the agent and stated, your a train, you have two cars, you can add more. She was dumbfounded, it never occured to her that you could add cars to a train. 

High Speed rail, what for, if its a short distance a car is best, if its any further I prefer to rack up frequent flyer miles.

So who wants to be the first to lose a loved one on the government run, taxpayer paid, free transportation for welfare receipents, money pit bullet train.


----------



## The T (Feb 17, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> Gov. Rick Scott rejects funding for high-speed rail - St. Petersburg Times
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Agreed. And the point is that IF there was a market for such a thing? The private sector would have met it a long time ago...and why AMTRAK continues to be subsidized, and at a loss.

All it is is payoff for Obama's Union pals...and will be another unwanted/uneeded burden on taxpayers AFTER it is built. US private railroads got OUT of the passenger business in 1971 because it was a drain on their resources and thus the advent of AMTRAK.

Private Autos and Airlines kicked the butts of the passenger rail service. It continues on the backs of taxpayers to this day...a losing proposition.


----------



## Yurt (Feb 17, 2011)

great!

i hope california gets the money


----------



## Wicked Jester (Feb 17, 2011)

Plasmaball said:


> > Private Autos and Airlines kicked the butts of the passenger rail service. It continues on the backs of taxpayers to this day...a losing proposition.
> 
> 
> 
> Except for the fact they failed and had to be bailed out. Once again proving why you shouldn't think and post ever.


Government run AMTRAK has been nothing but a perpetual bailout on the tax payers backs.

Ya' might wanna try thinking before you speak, ya' liberal douchebag.


----------



## Toro (Feb 17, 2011)

> In Tallahassee, a veto-proof majority of the Florida Senate rebuked Scott in a letter that urged the federal government to give the state the money Scott has refused.
> 
> "Politics should have no place in the future of Florida's transportation, as evidenced by this letter of bipartisan support," said the letter, signed by 26 members of the Republican-controlled Florida Senate. ...
> 
> ...



Florida lawmakers fight to keep rail money Gov. Rick Scott rejected - St. Petersburg Times

It will be very interesting to see how Scott acts.  Unlike a CEO, the governor of Florida is a relatively weak position, and Senators don't like being told what to do.


----------



## Toro (Feb 17, 2011)

More.

Senator makes point about Rick Scott's authority to nix rail deal, but Scott still holds most cards - St. Petersburg Times


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 17, 2011)

Sallow said:


> Big surprise here. Backward thinking conservatives thinking..um..backwards.


yeah, its so backwards to spend government money for something he already has PRIVATE funding to cover


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 17, 2011)

Mr Clean said:


> Fuck 'em!
> 
> No high speed rail service for them then.


naw, they're just gonna do it without federal money

so fuck you


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 17, 2011)

NYcarbineer said:


> 23,000 construction jobs, there's a good chance the private sector would pick up the state's share of the funding, and the contracts were to stipulate the contractors would absorb the cost overruns.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yeah, that moron has PRIVATE INVESTORS doing it

you're the fucking moron


----------



## The T (Feb 17, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > Fuck 'em!
> ...


 
Voters in Florida have poo=pooed the notion of HSR a long time ago. Governor Scott is acting upon the sentiment as he should, as he was elected to do.


----------



## The T (Feb 17, 2011)

Wicked Jester said:


> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> > > Private Autos and Airlines kicked the butts of the passenger rail service. It continues on the backs of taxpayers to this day...a losing proposition.
> ...


 
That person is incapable of independent thought.


----------



## Wicked Jester (Feb 17, 2011)

The T said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > Plasmaball said:
> ...


Obviously.

Must suck for him that he no longer has ol' Keith Olbermann feeding him his loony liberal talking points any longer.


----------



## uscitizen (Feb 17, 2011)

I think high speed rail from Miami and Tampa with Orlando being the hub would do fine.
Then later make a line from Orlando to Atlanta.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 17, 2011)

uscitizen said:


> I think high speed rail from Miami and Tampa with Orlando being the hub would do fine.
> Then later make a line from Orlando to Atlanta.


and what about those communities in between?
the ones that will have the tracks and the noise, but the trains wont stop there, or if they DO stop, BOOM, there goes the "high speed"


----------



## mdn2000 (Feb 18, 2011)

This is another example of Government having too much power to collect money and spend it. If the government can tax us, make us pay a fee, pay for a passport, any way they steal our money, if the government has the power to collect, this power to tax and make money off the people who work will always corrupt those who control it. 

There is only one solution, cut the government down to size, take away its power to tax and collect.

We should compromise and give everything to the Liberals that the Liberals want. Everything, that is the compromise Liberals demand.

The train is going to be real fast, only problem is buying the ticket from the government agent, that will take forever, I bet it will be worst than getting a new Driver's liscence or buying stamps.


----------



## Old Rocks (Feb 18, 2011)

Yep, let us just cut our government to the point that the EU, Japan, China, and India are considered the leading nations, the US will just be a third world has been. A place with some very rich people, and a lot of poor working class people. That is the Conservative dream.


----------



## editec (Feb 18, 2011)

*



State legislators questioned whether the governor has the authority to unilaterally kill high-speed rail, and members of Florida's congressional delegation discussed with U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood ways to circumvent Scott's decision.

One possibility: Cut the state out of the equation and have cities along the rail line form a partnership to receive the federal dollars.

Click to expand...

 
No doubt many of you right wingers will applaude this move as I KNOW how much you guys are all onboard with LOCAL CONTROL, right?

Hey maybe the cites of FLA ought to stage a CIVIL WAR against their state, too.

And then after the cities become independent, perhaps the neighborhoods ought to break away from the cities, too, so they have even more LOCAL CONTROL.

And then after that perhaps the individual families can break away from the neighborhoods so that the control is even more LOCAL.

Eventurally every human being can declare himself as sovereign nation and everybody will enjoy the benefits of LOCAL CONTROL.

*


----------



## Ravi (Feb 18, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> > I think high speed rail from Miami and Tampa with Orlando being the hub would do fine.
> ...


What communities would those be? There is virtually nothing between Miami and Orlando once you get away from the coast.

Scott is a toad. I would certainly use this train as would a gazillion south American tourists.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 18, 2011)

Ravi said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > uscitizen said:
> ...


ah, the "fly-over people"
they dont matter


----------



## boedicca (Feb 18, 2011)

editec said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Wow.  Talk about unclear on the concept regarding our form of government.


----------



## JamesInFlorida (Feb 19, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



You haven't driven from Tampa-Orlando-Miami before have you? A lot of Florida is just wilderness. For example if you were to drive from Tampa to Miami, you'd come accross a stretch of highway with literally no exits (1 gas station in the middle, maybe a couple rest stops every now and then), for about 85 miles or so.

It wouldn't bother nearly anybody if it were built from Tampa to Orlando to Miami-it would be relatively easy to build it where it wouldn't interfere with towns. Those people could also take full advantage of it. If you live in the middle of Tampa and Orlando for example-you would be half hour-absolute TOPS-away from the train station.

PS-How can I speak on behalf of "fly-over people"? Well I can't speak for all of them-but I can speak for one-myself.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2011)

JamesInFlorida said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


actually, i have
i used to live in Port Charlotte FL and visited Miami and west palm a few times
as well as Sarasota and Tampa areas


btw, i dont oppose a rail system there
just have private investors do it
if it has a profitable potential, and high ridership, that shouldnt be a problem


----------



## JamesInFlorida (Feb 19, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



I actually agree that there needs to be private investors. My main point of arguing was that I think the high speed rail is a good idea in itself (depending on the area it's being built), not so much saying Scott should, or should not have accepted the funding. 

People forget and/or don't know he's going to Japan to meet with several potential, private investors-and already had them in Florida discussing it.

And I will admit to assuming before (we all know assuming makes someone)-I made a mistake-and I'm sure it wont be the last time. But I still think it could be built without intruding on fly-over towns.


----------



## The Infidel (Feb 19, 2011)

uscitizen said:


> How many people realize that the people of Florida thru a balloot measure approved high speed rail years ago and Jeb Bush killed it against the democratic choice?



Well..... my kids want an amusement park in my backyard, but Im a dictator who knows WE CANT AFFORD IT..... wow, how much sense does that make?

Guess I had better go tell my bank (china) to float me a loan.... I will just make my kids great grandchildren saddle the burden of paying it off 


Yeah.... those evil conservatives just dont want Floridians to have any fun on a toy train of their own


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2011)

JamesInFlorida said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > JamesInFlorida said:
> ...


the thing is, those towns are going to want SOMETHING
either train stations or possibly financial compensation
the problem with the stations is, the more stations you have, the more stops the train has to make
and frankly, those smaller towns would likely have more use for the trains than the larger ones

and if they need financial compensation, it will increase the operating costs of the train system


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2011)

The Infidel said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> > How many people realize that the people of Florida thru a balloot measure approved high speed rail years ago and Jeb Bush killed it against the democratic choice?
> ...


the state also had a ballot measure to FUND that project, and it was rejected by the voters
so, they wanted it, till they found out they had to PAY FOR IT


----------



## The Infidel (Feb 19, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> the state also had a ballot measure to FUND that project, and it was rejected by the voters
> so, they wanted it, till they found out they had to PAY FOR IT



Funny how that works huh?


----------



## asterism (Feb 19, 2011)

JamesInFlorida said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



One problem with the Tampa-Orlando line is that as "high speed" it is it would take longer than driving.  Currently there are 5 stops planned.  That's already an hour.  Also, once the train stops in Tampa what does one do without a car?  Where do they go?

Also, there is a problem with ridership and population density.  This area of Florida isn't as dense as Atlanta, which has regional rail but still needs to be subsidized.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2011)

asterism said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


5 STOPS between Tampa and Orlando???????


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2011)

the driving time from Tampa to Orlando would be about 1 hour and 35 minutes
downtown to downtown


----------



## blu (Feb 19, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



yea because private investors magically invest in everything that would be beneficial to society


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2011)

blu said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > JamesInFlorida said:
> ...


how would it be "beneficial" to add an additional cost to the tax base to run a train system that would fail otherwise?


----------



## blu (Feb 19, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> blu said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



I am not sure what your question has to do with my post


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2011)

blu said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > blu said:
> ...


really?
you are saying that investors wouldnt build a train
if investors wouldnt build it, it would be because there is no profit potential
thus having the government build it would mean it would never be self sufficient and would require constant government funding
thus is become a burden on the tax base and NOT "Beneficial"


----------



## Sarah G (Feb 19, 2011)

Ravi said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > uscitizen said:
> ...



Scott is a tool and he might be beginning to understand this right about now.  Here is where we begin to create jobs, jobs, jobs AND millions would use it.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2011)

Sarah G said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


typical, both you and ravi have no clue on the realities of this


----------



## The T (Feb 19, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> blu said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


 
Exactly. If there is a market demand for these things private industry would have done it, or woud be seeking investors.

All this si is trying to spend our way out of debt for what? Temporary jobs? Another losing proposition as AMTRAK?


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2011)

The T said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > blu said:
> ...


hey, more government employees that could unionize

a double whammy


----------



## The T (Feb 19, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> The T said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


 
Exactly.


----------



## Sarah G (Feb 19, 2011)

The T said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > blu said:
> ...



Temporary?  This could take a generation and then be ongoing work for a lot of people.  

If congress ever starts thinking about jobs rather than how big and hard they can screw working people, they might actually earn their own keep.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2011)

Sarah G said:


> The T said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


sorry, that was the congress that got booted out on their ASS last election


btw, this story has ZERO to do with congress


----------



## Sarah G (Feb 19, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > The T said:
> ...



You're right, jobs has zero to do with this congress.


----------



## The T (Feb 19, 2011)

Sarah G said:


> The T said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


 
Ongoing _Gubmint Susidized_ a-la AMTRAK you mean.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2011)

Sarah G said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Sarah G said:
> ...


you cant understand the facts sarah, but thats nothing NEW for you, is it?


----------



## Toro (Feb 19, 2011)

I'm not sure if a high-speed train makes sense.  I don't know if there would be enough of a ridership for it.

Instead, if they were dying to spend the money, it might be better to beef up commuter rail service on the southeast coast from Miami to West Palm.  It can be a bitch driving down there.


----------



## Toro (Feb 19, 2011)

I really don't think this makes much sense, to be honest.  The train works best when there is a high density of people and cities are condensed.  You don't need a car to get around in NY, Boston or Washington for example.  But the Florida cities really aren't like that.  For the most part, Florida is spread out, with lots of wide roads and suburbs.  You really don't have the infrastructure in Tampa and Orlando to ferry people around the cities because there extensive networks of highways, though it might work in Miami.  FFS, driving the 50 miles north of St Petersburg along Hwy 19 is a bitch because it is all suburb after suburb.  The drive from Tampa to Orlando can be a nightmare though.


----------



## The T (Feb 19, 2011)

Toro said:


> I really don't think this makes much sense, to be honest. The train works best when there is a high density of people and cities are condensed. You don't need a car to get around in NY, Boston or Washington for example. But the Florida cities really aren't like that. For the most part, Florida is spread out, with lots of wide roads and suburbs. You really don't have the infrastructure in Tampa and Orlando to ferry people around the cities because there extensive networks of highways, though it might work in Miami. FFS, driving the 50 miles north of St Petersburg along Hwy 19 is a bitch because it is all suburb after suburb. The drive from Tampa to Orlando can be a nightmare though.


 
Agreed. As to the large cities that have the need (and frankly forced into mass transit such as Amtrak's Acelea for congestion woes) I would have to agree. AMTRAK continues to lose money however...


----------



## Immanuel (Feb 19, 2011)

JamesInFlorida said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



I heard yesterday, they were considering a stop in Lakeland, probably one in Plant City as well.  I have not heard this, but my guess is Brandon too.  Brandon is a suburb of Tampa.  Lakeland is roughly 25 miles from Tampa with Plant City in between the two.  So three stops in 25 miles?  There is not much between Lakeland and Orlando.  From Orlando to Miami would depend upon the route taken.  If it goes down the center of the state there are plenty of small towns such as Sebring and Avon Park.  If it pushes out to the coast there would be dozens of places to stop.

My personal opinion is that HSR is a great idea, however, I am afraid that the federal government cannot afford to take this project on the right way which would be to take it all the way across the country.  Tampa/Orlando/Miami won't do anything for the nation as a whole.  

The U.S. simply does not need to add trillions more to its deficit for this project.

Immie


----------



## The T (Feb 19, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


 
No it won't. It will probably interface with AMTRAK...or other _modes..._


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2011)

The T said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > JamesInFlorida said:
> ...


Amtrak already services these exact areas


----------



## asterism (Feb 19, 2011)

Sarah G said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



$4 Billion to create 20,000 temporary jobs and then untold other millions in state and local government expense to create 10,000 maintenance jobs is not a sound policy.


----------



## asterism (Feb 19, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> The T said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



It's more sinister than that.  It's a federal intrusion into a regional issue for nothing but political power.  It's like MARTA in Atlanta.  Too big to undo, too inefficient to pay for itself, and now too many people are dependent on it.


----------



## asterism (Feb 19, 2011)

Sarah G said:


> The T said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



Instead of doing make-work, how about just pass out the money?


----------



## asterism (Feb 19, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



And since there is no way to get anywhere from any of those stops without a car it won't be used for any local traffic.  It's slower, more expensive, and one still needs a car.

The long term prospect of having high speed rail from Tampa International Airport, one stop in Lakeland at the new college and technology center being built, one stop at the Orlando Convention Center/Disney Megaplex, and one stop at Orlando International Airport does make sense.  But it's going to take 30 years or more for the traffic trends to support that ridership and in the meantime it would be much cheaper to develop the right of way as a set of private lanes with limousines ferrying all that traffic.

But then again it would be more cost effective to replace most of the bus systems out here with town cars used on-demand in taxi queue.  It's not done that way because it would remove an entire government department.


----------



## The T (Feb 19, 2011)

asterism said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > The T said:
> ...


 
Same effect, isn't it?


----------



## The T (Feb 19, 2011)

asterism said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > The T said:
> ...


 
Just like the 'Riderless Express' we have here where I live...

*JTA SKYWAY*


----------



## asterism (Feb 19, 2011)

The T said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > Sarah G said:
> ...



No long term government bureaucracy and cost if they just handed out $280,000 to each of the $20,000 new job candidates.  Lesseee, if the average salary is $50K that would provide capital for each person to live for over 5 years while they either retrained or started their own businesses.  Not that I'm a fan of handouts because I'm not.  But if the purpose of this project is to create jobs for income then let's do it with the least amount of long term boat-anchor costs.


----------



## The T (Feb 19, 2011)

asterism said:


> The T said:
> 
> 
> > asterism said:
> ...


 

Hmmmm...50k Salary...x 20K candidates...comes out to $1B, No?


----------



## asterism (Feb 19, 2011)

The T said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



Oh absolutely!  The whole purpose of of that thing was to get federal dollars to "provide jobs" (sound familiar?) and now the city, state, and federal governments have to subsidize the cost or give back all the federal money used to build it.  Jacksonville is stuck with this.

1700 daily riders at a cost of $200 Million just to build.  Not maintain, just build.  In the 22 years it has been built, that's a cost of $14 per rider per day and they've only been paying 35 cents to a dollar per trip.  This is just what it cost to build the damn thing.  Not including maintenance and operating costs, a 22 year payback on this boondoggle is $14 per day.  Who in the world is going to pay $14 to ride 2 miles?

None of this makes any sense.


----------



## The T (Feb 19, 2011)

asterism said:


> The T said:
> 
> 
> > asterism said:
> ...


 
Just build things that leaves taxpayers holding the bag...the liability.

A terriffic waste. Istated early in this thread of 'short term gains'.

This is an example of Symbolism over substance.

Same with HSR...as it is with AMTRAK...it will always be in the red leaving the taxpayers paying for it in perpetuity...until funding is KILLED.


----------



## Ravi (Feb 19, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


The fly over people already contend with car and air traffic.


----------



## Ravi (Feb 19, 2011)

Sarah G said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


With any luck the conservatives will mow him down. Since they (or at least the Republicans) are currently unhappy with his turning down the money. But hey, they usually fall into line and back the rethuglican wing...sigh.


----------



## The T (Feb 19, 2011)

Ravi said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


 

...*AND* They are Content with it AND aren't SCREAMING for HSR.

_Are they?_


----------



## Ravi (Feb 19, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


Well...I know I live in Florida and you don't so what business is it of yours, exactly?


----------



## Ravi (Feb 19, 2011)

Toro said:


> I'm not sure if a high-speed train makes sense.  I don't know if there would be enough of a ridership for it.
> 
> Instead, if they were dying to spend the money, it might be better to beef up commuter rail service on the southeast coast from Miami to West Palm.  It can be a bitch driving down there.


There is already Amtrak between those two cities.

I don't see a huge need for Tampa to Orlando, but Miami to Orlando to Tampa would be excellent.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2011)

Ravi said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Sarah G said:
> ...


ok then, you STFU about anything north and west of the FL state borders


your asking for FEDERAL MONEY to do this
that makes it MY BUSINESS


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2011)

Ravi said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not sure if a high-speed train makes sense.  I don't know if there would be enough of a ridership for it.
> ...


there is already AmTrak service there too


----------



## Ravi (Feb 19, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


uh...no. the money will be spent. If not in Florida, then in Cali, or some other state.

State's rights are fine until you feel the need to mouth off about some one else's state...


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2011)

http://www.amtrak.com/pdf/factsheets/FLORIDA08.pdf


----------



## Ravi (Feb 19, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Toro said:
> ...


Not a fast service. Basically a cow train.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2011)

Ravi said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


with all the stops this train will have to make
it wont be much faster
going by car would still be faster


----------



## Finnguy (Feb 19, 2011)

Ravi said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



With all the other states rejecting the money, looks like Cali is going to get a shitload.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2011)

Ravi said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


and i will STILL have a right to talk about what happens to that money in THOSE states too


btw, dipshit, this is a state (yours) saying it doesnt want it


----------



## Ravi (Feb 19, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


When is the last time you drove I4 from Tampa to Orlando, exactly?


----------



## Ravi (Feb 19, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


Actually, it a toad saying he doesn't want it...not the state, or its residents.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2011)

Ravi said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


it would only take an hour and a half


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2011)

Ravi said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


he was elected
so tough shit most of your fellow Floridians voted for him


----------



## Ravi (Feb 19, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


Tuesday at midnight, yeah, good point.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2011)

Ravi said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


yeah, you are nuts


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 19, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> Gov. Rick Scott rejects funding for high-speed rail - St. Petersburg Times
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No, dope - not good for Rick Scott, and not good for Florida.  That money is going somewhere else if not Florida.  New York immediately said that if Florida doesn't want it, New York will take it, and they will probably get it.  It's been allocated and will be spent.








Sam Stein 		HuffPost Reporting 		stein@huffingtonpost.com 

White House To Rick Scott: We'll Spend Florida's High-Speed Rail Money Elsewhere



WASHINGTON -- In a bit of political hardball, the Obama  administration on Wednesday said it would send $2.4 billion in stimulus  money to other states should Florida Gov. Rick Scott not back down on  his rejection of the federal government's national high-speed rail  project.
  Speaking just hours after Scott announced he was abandoning the  project due to cost concerns for the state, White House Press Secretary  Jay Carney relayed the president's preparedness to simply send the  allocated money to other locales rather than, say, use it to lower the  federal deficit.


"We think that is an unfortunate decision," Carney said. "This goes  right to the essence of what we have been talking about here. There has  been a lot of bipartisan support for the need to create the kind of  modern infrastructure in this country that will enable us to compete.  High speed rail is very much a part of that and we will make sure that  that money is used elsewhere to advance the infrastructure and  innovation agenda that is essential for economic growth.


"We believe that the money that is allocated for high-speed rail as  part of the Recovery Act is essential to the infrastructure agenda that  this president has," Carney added later. "Again, it is part of the  president's priority and it is essential to us to build an  infrastructure that allows us to compete in the 21st Century."


Carney's posture, delivered during his inaugural briefing, isn't the  first time that the specter of one state building its own high-speed  rail system on another state's dime has been raised. Shortly after Gov.  Scott Walker (R-Wisc.) took office he declined to accept federal money  for Wisconsin's rail system upgrades. Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D-N.Y.)  responded quickly by affirming that New York would gladly take the  un-cashed checks.


All of which has caused Democrats in Florida to lash back at their newly elected governor for his conservative braggadocio.


"It's eating our seed corn," said Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.),  referencing the colloquialism that when times are tough, and one is  hungry, you're supposed to plant seeds for crop, not eat them.


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 19, 2011)

*Republican Fl. Gov. Rick Scott angers Republicans over refusing to accept high speed rail money*


U.S. Rep. John Mica, R-Winter Park, who chairs the House  Transportation and  Infrastructure Committee and is as far right as a  Tea Party politician can be, said this about Scott's decision:
"I am deeply disappointed," said U.S. Rep. John Mica, a  Republican whose district reaches from Orlando to the Atlantic Coast,  where the rail  service could have been expanded. *"This is a huge  setback for the state  of Florida, our transportation, economic  development, and important  tourism industry."*​ In one fell swoop, Scott has helped reelect Democratic Senator Bill  Nelson and restricted Florida's competitive balance as a state. 





This is what happens when you elect amateurs and morons to the Governorship.  Rick Scott is an unindicted felon, and belongs in jail.


----------



## Toro (Feb 19, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



Well, actually, the Republican-controlled Senate has said they wanted it.  

I'm not sure what the House has said yet.


----------



## Wicked Jester (Feb 19, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Gov. Rick Scott rejects funding for high-speed rail - St. Petersburg Times
> ...


Better plan, do away with the thought of high speed rail all together.....It's a fucking joke. And it will be a bigger fucking joke watching the really really really fast trains speeding by with ten passengers on 'em. Basically, Joe Biden with his family on 'em.

The government can't run slow speed trains, and the fools out there think they're going to run high speed trains.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2011)

Toro said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


good thing they had common sense in the governors office then


----------



## WillowTree (Feb 19, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



I think the residents of Florida have voted high speed rail down more than once. I don't know which Florida you live in but it's true of the one I live in.. Tough shit rabid.


----------



## WillowTree (Feb 19, 2011)

Wicked Jester said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


----------



## WillowTree (Feb 19, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> *Republican Fl. Gov. Rick Scott angers Republicans over refusing to accept high speed rail money*
> 
> 
> U.S. Rep. John Mica, R-Winter Park, who chairs the House  Transportation and  Infrastructure Committee and is as far right as a  Tea Party politician can be, said this about Scott's decision:
> ...




sucks to be a loser democrat donut?


----------



## Toro (Feb 19, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> *Republican Fl. Gov. Rick Scott angers Republicans over refusing to accept high speed rail money*
> 
> 
> U.S. Rep. John Mica, R-Winter Park, who chairs the House  Transportation and  Infrastructure Committee and is as far right as a  Tea Party politician can be, said this about Scott's decision:
> ...



This is going to be an interesting dynamic. 

Scott was elected as an outsider who pissed off much of the state's Republican establishment going after McCollum the way he did.  During the election, many Republicans jumped back on board the bandwagon since they had a vested interest in getting as many Republicans elected statewide as they could.  He has also been splashing around money here in Tallahassee hiring old Republican hands as aides.  However, the local pols have no allegiance to him whatsoever.  In fact, there is some resentment towards him due to the way he acted in the primaries.  So, unlike Jeb Bush who was popular in the party establishment, the local Republicans will go along with him if they think it is politically expedient to do so.  But if they feel it is in their own political interests to do so, they'll drop Scott like a hot rock, which they never would have with Bush.  I think Scott is probably right in his decision but my guess is that rejecting funding will be unpopular amongst the state's electorate in general, so it will be interesting to see how the Republican state Senators and Congressmen work with Scott in the upcoming session.


----------



## Toro (Feb 19, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



They did at least once.



> November 2004 Florida HSR Constitutional Amendment Repealed
> 
> Florida voters repeal the high speed rail amendment.  The fiscal impact statement with the repeal amendment estimates the state cost savings from between $20 to $25 billion during a 30 year period.
> 
> Prominent opponents note lack of federal financial support for HSR.  FDOTs current estimates, based upon engineering design and analysis, the Tampa-Orlando-Miami corridor will cost approximately $13 billion to build, with more than 80 percent of these funds coming from the federal rail program.



History - Florida High Speed Rail


----------



## WillowTree (Feb 19, 2011)

Toro said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...









And, ya know what I heard on Fox News Today? Fox News the best and most useful source of News in America??? That China is very much regretting their investment in "high speed rail".


----------



## Trajan (Feb 19, 2011)

The Orlando-Tampa line. Around 100 miles...a high speed rail would cut the average commute time by car by 30 minutes....the cost of gas driving 30 minutes at 65 mile per hour? Lets say you have an average vehicle,  20 mpg.,  32.5 miles = 1.5 gallons of gas, less than $6,  a ticket for a comparable train ride now, between Washington DC and Philadelphia, a trip of 140 miles, on Acela is between $67 and $102. So lets take $50 dollars as a price point, hell make it $40. I can drive for 5 gallons of gas at a cost of roughly $15 and take a half hour  longer but have the freedom of my vehicle,  leaving when I want or pay the extra $25 ?

And to be fair, you may have to pay for parking...$10...$15 maxxxxxx?

Will the public ride it enough to make it a viable self sppting. Service? I very seriously doubt it. 


Some interesting tidbits......reposted-



Rail buffs argue that subsidies for passenger service simply offset the huge government support of highways and airways. The subsidies "level the playing field." Wrong. In 2004, the Department of Transportation evaluated federal transportation subsidies for the period 1990-2002. It found passenger rail service had the highest subsidy ($186.35 per thousand passenger-miles) followed by mass transit ($118.26 per thousand miles). By contrast, drivers received no net subsidy; their fuel taxes more than covered federal spending. Subsidies for airline passengers were about $5 per thousand miles traveled. (All figures are in inflation-adjusted year 2000 dollars.) 

High-speed rail would transform Amtrak's small drain into a much larger drain. Once built, high-speed rail systems would face a dilemma. To recoup initial capital costs -- construction and train purchases -- ticket prices would have to be set so high that few people would choose rail. But lower prices, even with favorable passenger loads, might not cover costs. Government would be stuck with huge subsidies. Even without recovering capital costs, high-speed rail systems would probably run in the red. Most mass-transit systems, despite high ridership, routinely have deficits.

RealClearPolitics - The Enemies of Good Government

And


Even California, that famous incubator of pipedreams, is having second thoughts. The state has proposed an 800-mile high-speed rail plan from San Diego to San Francisco. Bay area residents are now protesting that the line will damage property values, while Central Valley farmers complain the line will ruin their land. The greater wonder is how the state will pay for a $43 billion train even as it's facing a $28 billion budget gap over the next 18 months and $20 billion annual deficits four years after that. 

Two years ago California taxpayers approved a $9.95 billion bond initiative to fund the train, buying the pitch that it would create hundreds of thousands of jobs and attract 94 million riders. The state's high-speed rail authority told voters a one-way ticket from San Francisco to Los Angeles would cost $55&#8212;about the price of a Southwest flight. They said private equity firms were dying to invest, and that the train would operate without a public subsidy. 

Snip-

The only area of the United States where high-speed rail begins to make sense is along the high-traffic, high-population Northeast Corridor from Washington, D.C., to Boston. Amtrak's Acela peaks at 150 miles per hour but averages only about 70 miles per hour because it has to share tracks with other trains. A truly high-speed rail that runs on its own dedicated track could reach 220 mph and cut the travel time nearly in half.


More at-
Review & Outlook: Runaway Trains - WSJ.com


----------



## bradt93 (Feb 19, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > The T said:
> ...



 They did huh,we still control the senate and white house you freaks!!!


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2011)

bradt93 said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Sarah G said:
> ...


but not as much as you did before the last election, FREAK


----------



## Immanuel (Feb 19, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



Until you get East of Disney.  From then on into Downtown, the last 8 miles or so, it is an hour drive minimum and that is on a good day.

Immie


----------



## Toro (Feb 19, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



The I4 is terrible.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


so, you'd get on the train, and end up in downtown Orlando and then have to get to disney
LOL


----------



## Immanuel (Feb 19, 2011)

Toro said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



I would never want anyone from FDOT to read this, but since they expanded I-4 from Tampa to Orlando it has improved a lot, but I don't think there is any saving Orlando's traffic.  It is a frigging nightmare almost as bad as Silicon Valley... almost!

Immie


----------



## Immanuel (Feb 19, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



No, _I_ wouldn't, but then, I also said earlier that I don't think the plan is a good one... definitely not something the U.S. Government should be going further into debt over.

About the only thing I can see HSR being useful for is to get across the country on.  I could see the value of two E/W corridors say SF to NY and LA to Washington with a few NS lines to hit major metro areas, but the expense of that would be down right astronomical and out of the question when one wants to be reasonable.

I for one support Gov. Scott's decision.  Unfortunately, it appears the U.S. Government is damned well going to spend that money come hell or high water.  

What the hell is wrong with these idiots in Washington?  Money doesn't grown on cherry trees, which I understand are prevalent in the Washington area.

Immie


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...


might be a better use to put this money into expanding I-4


----------



## Immanuel (Feb 19, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > Toro said:
> ...



Someone earlier said something about 10 riders per train.  Having lived in Silicon Valley after they put in their version of Light Rail, I know exactly what that person means.  That was exactly what happened with the Light Rail in Silicon Valley.  Last year, Hillsborough County voters (where Tampa is) shot down a light rail proposal... Thank God!!!  I suspect that this version of HSR would be very similar to the Light Rail in SV.  I simply don't see the need for it.  People living in Miami are not going to commute to Orlando to work, it just is not going to happen.  People do commute from Tampa to Orlando, about 80 miles, but, unless the daily ticket price including parking is less than $15-$20, HSR is not likely to end the nightmare of that commute.

Immie


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 19, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...


the best place for light rail is not inter city, but intra city
to help people in the suburbs get into the city to work and then back home again


----------



## Immanuel (Feb 19, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



The problem with Tampa is that there is no real "inner-city"  We have a Downtown, but most of the work force is spread out.  There is no "central hub" to bring the light rail too.  Silicon Valley was the same way.  It was too spread out.  The Light Rail system basically went NS and literally destroyed the traffic pattern that went EW.  

I used to cross the LR at Montague Expressway in SJ.  The lights would change to red usually two seconds after going green, and the crossing guards would come down, 45 seconds later (okay, that is probably stretching it, it was most likely more like 15 seconds) a train with two cars would go by... you could actually count the number of heads that were visible on one hand, that train would go by the crossing guards would stay down, then another train going northbound would pass and again, you could count the number of heads on the train on one hand (by the way this was at commute times), that train would pass and before the crossing guards came up another SB train would go by with fewer than five people on board.  In the meantime, EW traffic was stacking up.  EW traffic never cleared because of the LR.

Immie


----------



## Trajan (Feb 19, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...



I live in san Jose and I can attest to that. The fact that, for a gallon of gas, you can get anywhere in san jose you want, in less time than the LR easily, made is ridiculous from the git go, even for  one working for just 10 an hour, a gallon of gas to go to and from work, will not compensate for a $3 ticket price adding in the extra time and freedom...... 

Now bringing BART down the peninsula to San Jose makes sense,  to much sense,  thats why they have not done it yet, and yet, Oh and they are really curtailing  Cal-train(s) to Stockton for instance and Tracy and  other bedroom commuter suburbs.

 Its just nuts, they are totally out to lunch. 

and as far as the ticket price point you mentioned in another post of 15-20 dollars, that will never ever happen. Its not even comparable anywhere in the US.


----------



## Wicked Jester (Feb 19, 2011)

If the people of Florida want to ride a high speed train, they can take their asses to Disneyworld and ride the friggin' monorail.......It's faster than Amtrak and most definitely runs more on schedule.


----------



## reason10 (Feb 20, 2011)

We don't have an income tax in Florida.


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 20, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


Yeah, I've been hearing this from wingnuts about Walker, too - he was elected, blah, blah, blah.

Where was this attitude from the Right when Obama was elected?

Hypocrite.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 20, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


didnt have to
Obama was already saying it

idiot


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 20, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



BULLSHIT!  Why do you resort to lying through your teeth?

Florida voters amended their state's constitution in 2000. The amendment *required *the state to build high-speed rail.

Republicans, led by another fuckup named Bush, *ignored *voter wishes.

You are either a bald-faced liar or an ignoramus - which is it?


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 20, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


then they voter later not to FUND it


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 20, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > *Republican Fl. Gov. Rick Scott angers Republicans over refusing to accept high speed rail money*
> ...




That's the best you can do when I call out your bullshit?

Save your retard act for the Republicans who think Rick Scott is a moron, like John Mica.


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 20, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



Well, that just says it all!


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 20, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



VERY true.  And it's no better on the Tampa end.

As someone from Central Florida, I have cursed Orlando traffic for decades now.  Man was not meant to sit still on an Interstate, yet thousands do every day on I-4, crawling along.  Even back in 1985, I remember sitting through 6 or 7 light changes to finally get through an intersection on SR436, close to the Altamonte Mall, only to sit through another 6 at the next intersection.  Ever try to drive SR50?  A nightmare.

Orlando built up the city on Disney and Sea World, then realized _"hey - we have no roads!"_


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 20, 2011)

how many lanes is I-4 now?


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 20, 2011)

and if you think thats bad, you should try I-40 heading into dallas at 8 am


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 20, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...



I am not sold on high speed rail as a people mover, unless they make it an AutoTrain.  I AM sold on rail as a better way to move goods around the country than long-haul 18 wheelers.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 20, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


high speed freight makes sense
but you have to limit the numbe of stops and slowdowns it has to make
like elevating the places where it would intersect with roads
no stops and stations few and far between


----------



## Wicked Jester (Feb 20, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...


Only problem with that is the fact that freight doesn't really need to move that quickly. Thousands of truck drivers will lose their jobs, as well as mechanics. Small business parts manufacturers and suppliers for trucks will go out of business, and on and on and on. It will be one big jobs killer in the end.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 20, 2011)

Wicked Jester said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...


i only said it makes sense
and those truckers would still be needed for short hauls
and i still think it should be done by PRIVATE investors


----------



## Wicked Jester (Feb 20, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


Private investment is the only way it would work. The government would turn it into a money losing permanent bail out entity strapped to the taxpayers backs like AMTRAK is.

Funny thing is, I want to know where all these promised shovel ready projects are, along with the jobs it was promised they would create. And this administration is talking about high speed rail?.......Give me a friggin break!


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 20, 2011)

Wicked Jester said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Wicked Jester said:
> ...


you didnt hear?
Obama already admitted there were no such thing as "shovel ready jobs"


----------



## Wicked Jester (Feb 20, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


The only thing I can say is god help us and, RUN CHRISTIE RUN!

We need a man who says what he means, and means what he says!......Obama has fully proven he isn't that man.


----------



## Sarah G (Feb 20, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



I understand some facts, that's why I usually reject your version of things, DiveCon.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 20, 2011)

Sarah G said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Sarah G said:
> ...


very very few, you usually have no clue what you are talking about, i highly doubt this time is any different


----------



## Sarah G (Feb 20, 2011)

Wicked Jester said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Wicked Jester said:
> ...



Christie might run but he won't be the Republican hack you want him to be.  If you knew anything about him, you wouldn't make such dumb comments all the time.

If you're for Palin or any other knee jerk R for president, you won't be that happy with Christie.


----------



## Wicked Jester (Feb 20, 2011)

Sarah G said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


Trust me, I know more about him than you do, ya box o' rocks.

Face it, he's your worst nightmare. He'll steamroll Obama. 

Yeah, I like Palin but, I don't want her anywhere near the oval office. I like her for the simple fact that she isn't affraid to tell Obama and you liberals that you're all a bunch o' friggin idiots!


----------



## WillowTree (Feb 20, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...













You didn't get the memo I see.


----------



## Immanuel (Feb 20, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



Not me!

I despise CSX Railroad.  I sat for 45 minutes one time waiting for some jackass to get off his lunch break while he had traffic blocked.  Then on Highway 41 in several places they block the highway for up to thirty minutes nearly daily while they switch trains from one track to another at traffic time.  

The arrogant SOBs!  They think they own the world.  

HSR would be a great way to get across the country, if it was not so expensive to build.  As for your thoughts about it being an autotrain, I don't find that to be a requirement as far as I am concerned.  Rental cars are so easy to obtain that I probably would never consider transporting my vehicle anyway.

Immie


----------



## WillowTree (Feb 20, 2011)

Wicked Jester said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > Wicked Jester said:
> ...



Oh come on now. Where's yer sense of humor. I'd like to see President Palin for the simple reason it would cause millions of librul heads to explode simultaneously.. Would that be a fourth of July bang for the next hundret yars or so???


----------



## Tom Clancy (Feb 20, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



You mean the news station that purposely used last years CPAC crowd reaction to Ron Paul's straw poll win instead of the cheering in this years? 

Such a trusted name in news.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 20, 2011)

Tom Clancy said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Toro said:
> ...


meh, all news stations fuck up

Hanlons razor


----------



## JamesInFlorida (Feb 20, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...



This is true. If they were to build one, I'd guess they'd build it at TIA.


----------



## The T (Feb 20, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...


 
Isn't CSX's fault. These guys are _UNION_ and can do as they want.


----------



## Retread Ol' 37 (Feb 20, 2011)

ogibillm said:


> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> > As my wife and I were watching the new this morning this subject came up and my wife asked: "AmTrak looses money and apparently people don't use it much. Why would High Speed Rail be any different?"
> ...


And it would possibly do a lot of damage to the st. Louis/Chicago route for the airline, causing a loss of business and jobs.

As for Amtrak, the northeast corridor is the only profitable line, but that is because, well, try driving around there.

Florida may be a tourist spot around Orlando, Tampa and to a lesser extent Miami, but I don't know of many tourists who wish to go to Orlando and Miami or Tampa at the same trip. Not enough to make a rail like that profitable. And the demographics simply don't call for it either. The residents may be older but the car ownership rates are higher than many other urban spots.


----------



## The T (Feb 20, 2011)

Wicked Jester said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Wicked Jester said:
> ...


 
Obama was forced to _admit _there was no such thing as 'shovel ready jobs'...therefore lending creedence to the LIE of Government Stim...err...ummm...PORKULUS...



> Throughout the 2009 stimulus debate early in his term, President Barack Obama and other Democrats argue it was time to put America to work with the aid of the government and so-called shovel-ready jobs. But in a startling admission in an interview with The New York Times White House correspondent Peter Baker, Obama said theres no such thing as shovel-ready projects.


 
*SOURCE

*


----------



## JamesInFlorida (Feb 20, 2011)

Retread Ol' 37 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > Mad Scientist said:
> ...



I run into them all the time down here. It's not uncommon for tourists to visit both Orlando and Tampa.


----------



## Immanuel (Feb 20, 2011)

JamesInFlorida said:


> Retread Ol' 37 said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



Those are the snowbirds and they drive in the fast lane doing 45 - 50 MPH all the way between Orlando and Tampa.  Come to think of it, that may be why I-4 traffic sucks so bad.

Immie


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 20, 2011)

Wicked Jester said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Wicked Jester said:
> ...


 
So what would happen if Christie did run and win, and then Democrats did like Republicans have done, and obstruct, obstruct, obstruct?

Would Christie no longer be a man who says what he means and means what he says?  Would that fully prove Christie wasn't that man?


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 20, 2011)

Wicked Jester said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > Wicked Jester said:
> ...


 
What has Christie done, besides kill thousands of jobs for New Jersey by turning down the new route to NY?


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 20, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


Which one - that you're a liar or an ignoramus?


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 20, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Tom Clancy said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


Fuckups are one thing.  Deliberate deception is quite another.

How does this 'mistake' occur?  How does the footage from last year get out of the vault, or wherever they keep year-old stories, and get spliced into this year's story?

How could that ever be considered not deliberate?  Give me a plausible scenario.


----------



## Wicked Jester (Feb 20, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


Christie isn't dumb enough to make outlandish, impossible promises.

Christie isn't dumb enough to shove unpopular crap like the healthcare bill down the throats of americans whether they liked it or not.

Christie isn't dumb enough to make promises of troop withdrawals without all the facts.

Christie isn't dumb enough to fill his administration with anti-american dirtbags.

Christie is dumb enough to promise he'll close Gitmo without having a solid plan.

Christie isn't dumb enough to allow himself to have his pockets lined by corrupt unions. Unions hate the man.......GOOD! 

Christie has shown he's willing to work across the aisle, as long as the other side of the aisle isn't acting stupid........Obama spent his first two years deliberately trying to alienate the other side of the aisle. Wouldn't listen to a god damn thing. Spent his time lecturing and belittling like he knew what the hell he was talking about. As he has fully proven, he wa wrong on so many levels and didn't know what he though he did.

Christie isn't the polarizing figure Obama has fully proven to be......Moderate dem's are gravitating towards Christie's style. That's Obama's worst nightmare........Moderate repubs are not, and will not, gravitate towards Obama's style. His polarizing style has doomed him in that respect. And that goes for the indepentents.


----------



## Rozman (Feb 20, 2011)

We just saw what happened with the tunnel from NJ to NY...Gov.Christie had to stop it because the cost overruns were too much.The Federal Government stepped in with some funding but NJ would be responsible for any costs over that.The Gov. did the right thing and put a stop to it...If we can't pay for things we can't do them...

That makes sense...


----------



## rightwinger (Feb 20, 2011)

High Speed Rail would be wasted in Florida...it would never have the ridership


----------



## Wicked Jester (Feb 20, 2011)

Rozman said:


> We just saw what happened with the tunnel from NJ to NY...Gov.Christie had to stop it because the cost overruns were too much.The Federal Government stepped in with some funding but NJ would be responsible for any costs over that.The Gov. did the right thing and put a stop to it...If we can't pay for things we can't do them...
> 
> That makes sense...


Ya' beat me to it.......It's called being fiscally responsible. Something Obama and politicians on both sides are have trouble understanding.


----------



## EriktheRed (Feb 20, 2011)

> GOP Gov. Rick Scott has killed the high speed rail project in central Florida, but *that doesn't mean it's dead*.  House Republicans and Democrats from along the I-4 corridor are trying to do everything they can to get the money and create badly needed jobs in their districts.






> Rick Scott might not give a damn about rail in Florida, but John Mica's been in Congress for almost 20 years and I'm betting he wants to still be in Congress after Scott has burned down Tallahassee.  Odds are pretty good that won't happen if they can't sell Ray LaHood on a new plan by Friday.
> 
> 
> The bigger issue is that there's already bipartisan support for telling Rick Scott to go to hell.  Going to be very interesting to see how this all plays out.




No More Mister Nice Blog


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 20, 2011)

The T said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...


Your belief that just because someone joins a union they become lazy is a reflection of your character, and what you would do if you joined a union, not hard-working Americans.


----------



## JamesInFlorida (Feb 20, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> > Retread Ol' 37 said:
> ...



Yeah, but snowbirds are pretty much tourists (the many who own winter homes). It can be annoying putting up with them, but they bring our state a lot of revenue-and without them we would probably have a state income tax.


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 20, 2011)

Wicked Jester said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Wicked Jester said:
> ...


That wasn't what I asked, but nice deflection.

WHATEVER Christie promises, if the Democrats obstruct like Republicans have, would that prove that Christie is not a man who means what he says and says what he means?

You are trying to rationalize and make excuses for Republicans obstructing, but the American public elected Obama based on the promises he made on the campaign trail, so they didn't think it was 'dumb'.  

What gives the Republicans the right to obstruct what Americans said, by ballot, that they want?


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 20, 2011)

Rozman said:


> We just saw what happened with the tunnel from NJ to NY...*Gov.Christie had to stop it because the cost overruns were too much*.The Federal Government stepped in with some funding but NJ would be responsible for any costs over that.The Gov. did the right thing and put a stop to it...If we can't pay for things we can't do them...
> 
> That makes sense...


 
Who says?


----------



## Wicked Jester (Feb 20, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...


What did the republicans obstruct?......The dem's held the power. The repub's tried to warn Obama that the healthcare bill as written was a mistake. He didn't listen. Chose to lecture instead and then rammed it through......It cost the dem's dearly last november. Same goes for the stimulus. He was warned, didn't listen, and the dem's paid the price.

It becomes "dumb" when a politician whips up the masses with promises he had no idea whether or not he could keep, in due part to the fact that he had ZERO executive experience IN ANY CAPACITY, and very little experience as to how things work in government and abroad. He then filled his administration with inexperienced cronies of the Soros machine. And the dem's paid the price.

Christie isn't that way. As we are seeing, even the moderate dem's are liking what they are seeing.......Obama never had the guts to call out his party for ANY of their failings. Christie has shown he has no problem calling out both sides of the aisle for their failings. That is exactly what this country needs. DESPERATELY.

So Synth, in a nutshell, I don't think we'll see the level of obstruction you envision when we have a leader who knows what the hell he's doing. And isn't controlled by a far faction of his party as Obama is.


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 20, 2011)

Wicked Jester said:


> What did the republicans obstruct?


 
*372 Bills That Have Been Passed by the House & Not Yet &#8232;Acted Upon By the Senate&#8232; (as of 8/23/10)*


By The Hill Staff - 02/22/10 08:45 PM ET 


1)    H.R. 12, Paycheck Fairness Act
2)    H.R. 20, Melanie Blocker Stokes Moms Opportunity to Access Health, Education, Research, and Support for Postpartum Depression Act
3)    H.R. 22, U.S. Postal Service Financial Relief Act
4)    H.R. 23, Belated Thank You to the Merchant Mariners of World War II Act
5)    H.R. 24, Redesignating Department of Navy as Department of Navy and Marine Corps
6)    H.R. 31, Lumbee Recognition Act
7)    H.R. 35, Presidential Records Act Amendments
8)    H.R. 36, Presidential Library Donation Reform Act
9)    H.R. 44, Guam World War II Loyalty Recognition Act
10)    H.R. 46, Family Self Sufficiency Act
11)    H.R. 80, Captive Primate Safety Act
12)    H.R. 81, Shark Conservation Act
13)    H.R. 86, Regarding California Coastal National Monument
14)    H.R. 118, Regarding Morristown National Historical Park
15)    H.R. 129, Conveying Certain National Forest System Lands in Los Padres National Forest in California
16)    H.R. 151, Daniel Webster Congressional Clerkship  Act
17)    H.R. 174, Establishing a national cemetery for veterans in the southern Colorado region
18)    H.R. 310, HALE Scouts Act
19)    H.R. 320, CJs Home Protection Act










20)    H.R. 325, Avra/Black Wash Reclamation and Riparian Restoration Project
21)    H.R. 326, Cocopah Lands Act
22)    H.R. 347, Congressional Gold Medal for 100th Infantry Battalion in World War II

23)    H.R. 388, Crane Conservation Act
24)    H.R. 403, Homes for Heroes Act
25)    H.R. 409, Conveying Land to the Las Vegas Motor Speedway
26)    H.R. 411, Great Cats and Rare Canids Act
27)    H.R. 445, Heavy Duty Hybrid Vehicle Research, Development and Demonstration Act
28)    H.R. 448, Elder Abuse Victims Act
29)    H.R. 466, Wounded Veteran Job Security Act
30)    H.R. 469, Produced Water Utilization Act
31)    H.R. 479, Wakefield Act
32)    H.R. 509, Marine Turtle Conservation Reauthorization Act
33)    H.R. 515, Radioactive Import Deterrence Act
34)    H.R. 548, Civil War Battlefield Preservation Act
35)    H.R. 549, National Bombing Prevention Act
36)    H.R. 553, Reducing Over-Classification Act
37)    H.R. 554, National Nanotechnology Initiative Amendments Act
38)    H.R. 556, Southern Sea Otter Recovery and Research Act
39)    H.R. 559, Fair, Accurate, Secure and Timely Redress Act
40)    H.R. 577, Vision Care for Kids Act
41)    H.R. 601, Box Elder Utah Land Conveyance Act
42)    H.R. 603, Utah National Guard  Readiness Act
43)    H.R. 626, Federal Employees Paid Parental Leave Act
44)    H.R. 628, Encouraging enhancement of expertise in patent cases among district judges









45)    H.R. 631, Water Use Efficiency and Conservation Research Act
46)    H.R. 632, Encouraging Silver Alert Plans
47)    H.R. 637, South Orange County Recycled Water Enhancement Act
48)    H.R. 685, United States Civil Rights Trail Special Resource Study Act
49)    H.R. 729, Phylicias Law
50)    H.R. 738, Death in Custody Reporting Act
51)    H.R. 748, CAMPUS Safety Act
52)    H.R. 749, Technical Amendment to Federal Election Campaign Act
53)    H.R. 756, National Pain Care Policy Act
54)    H.R. 762, Validating a final patent number
55)    H.R. 780, Student Internet Safety Act
56)    H.R. 842, Naming R. Jess Brown U.S. Courthouse in Jackson, Mississippi
57)    H.R. 844, Marine Mammal Rescue Assistance Amendments
58)    H.R. 860, Coral Reef Conservation Act Reauthorization 
59)    H.R. 869, Naming Scott Reed Federal Building and U.S. Courthouse in Lexington, Kentucky
60)    H.R. 885, Improved Financial and Commodity Markets Oversight and Accountability Act
61)    H.R. 887, Naming James A. Leach U.S. Courthouse in Davenport, Iowa
62)    H.R. 905, Thunder Bay National Marine Sanctuary and Underwater Preserve Boundary Modification Act
63)    H.R. 908, Missing Alzheimers Disease Patient Alert Program Reauthorization
64)    H.R. 911, Stop Child Abuse in Residential Programs for Teens Act
65)    H.R. 934, Conveying certain submerged lands to Commonwealth of Mariana Islands
66)    H.R. 940, Conveyance of certain National Forest System land in Louisiana
67)    H.R. 946, Plain Writing Act
68)    H.R. 957, Green Energy Education Act
69)    H.R. 959, Officer Daniel Faulkner Children of Fallen Heroes Scholarship Act
70)    H.R. 965, Chesapeake Bay Gateways and Watertrails Network Continuing Authorization Act
71)    H.R. 985, Free Flow of Information Act
72)    H.R. 1002, Pisgah National Forest Boundary Adjustment Act
73)    H.R. 1017, Chiropractic Care Available to All Veterans Act
74)    H.R. 1018, Restore Our American Mustangs Act
75)    H.R. 1029, Alien  Smuggling and Terrorism Prevention Act
76)    H.R. 1043, Deafy Glade Land Exchange Act
77)    H.R. 1044, Port Chicago Naval Magazine
78)    H.R. 1053, Chesapeake Bay Accountability and Recovery Act









79)    H.R. 1061, Hoh Indian Tribe Safe Homelands Act
80)    H.R. 1065, White Mountain Apache Tribe Water Rights Quantification Act
81)    H.R. 1080, Illegal, Unreported, and Unregulated Fishing Enforcement Act
82)    H.R. 1084,  CALM Act
83)    H.R. 1088, Mandatory Veteran Specialist Training Act
84)    H.R. 1089, Veterans Employment Rights Realignment Act
85)    H.R. 1107, Relating to certain public contracts
86)    H.R. 1110, PHONE Act
87)    H.R. 1120, Central Texas Water Recycling Act
88)    H.R. 1129, Authorizing iron working training program for Native Americans
89)    H.R. 1139, COPS Improvements Act
90)    H.R. 1145, National Water Research and Development Initiative Act
91)    H.R. 1147, Local Community Radio Act
92)    H.R. 1168, Veterans Retraining Act
93)    H.R. 1170, New Assistive Technologies for Specially Adapted Housing
94)    H.R. 1171, Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program Reauthorization
95)    H.R. 1172, Requiring List on VA Website of Organizations Providing Scholarships for Veterans
96)    H.R. 1177, 5-Star Generals Commemorative Coin Act
97)    H.R. 1178, Requiring a study on the use of Civil Air Patrol personnel and resources to support homeland security missions
98)    H.R. 1216, Naming Lance Corporal Matthew P. Pathenos Post Office in Chesterfield, Missouri
99)    H.R. 1217, Naming Specialist Peter J. Navarro Post Office in Ballwin, Missouri
100)    H.R. 1218, Naming Lance Corporal Drew W. Weaver Post Office in Saint Charles, Missouri
101)    H.R. 1219, Lake Hodges Surface Water Improvement and Reclamation Act
102)    H.R. 1246, Early Hearing Detection and Intervention Act
103)    H.R. 1253, Health Insurance Restrictions and Limitations Clarification Act
104)    H.R. 1258, Truth in Caller ID Act
105)    H.R. 1259, Dextromethorphan Distribution Act
106)    H.R. 1262, Water Quality Investment Act
107)    H.R. 1280, Modifying A Land Grant Issued by the Secretary of the Interior
108)    H.R. 1287, Dorothy Buell Memorial Visitor Center Partnership Act
109)    H.R. 1293, Disabled Veterans Home Improvement and Structural Alteration Grant Increase Act 
110)    H.R. 1319, Informed P2P User Act
111)    H.R. 1323, Reducing Information Control Designations Act
112)    H.R. 1333, Regarding shipment of certain explosive materials to federally recognized Indian tribes









113)    H.R. 1345, District of Columbia Hatch Act Reform
114)    H.R. 1376, Waco Mammoth National Monument Establishment Act
115)    H.R. 1380, Josh Miller HEARTS Act
116)    H.R. 1385, Thomasina E. Jordan Indian Tribes of Virginia Federal Recognition Act
117)    H.R. 1387, Electronic Message Preservation Act
118)    H.R. 1393, Lower Rio Grande Valley Water Resources Conservation and Improvement Act
119)    H.R. 1404, Federal Land Assistance, Management and Enhancement (FLAME) Act
120)    H.R. 1429, Stop AIDS in Prison Act
121)    H.R. 1469, Child Protection Improvements Act
122)    H.R. 1471, Designating Jimmy Carter National Historic Site as a National Historical Park
123)    H.R. 1511, Torture Victims Relief Reauthorization Act
124)    H.R. 1514, Juvenile Accountability Block Grants Program Reauthorization Act
125)    H.R. 1554, Fountainhead Property Land Transfer Act
126)    H.R. 1580, Electronic Waste Research and Development Act
127)    H.R. 1585, FIT Kids Act
128)    H.R. 1593, Adding a segment of Illabot Creek in State of  Washington to the National Wild and Scenic Rivers System
129)    H.R. 1612, Public Lands Service Corps Act
130)    H.R. 1617, Department of Homeland Security Component Privacy Officer Act
131)    H.R. 1622, R&D on Natural Gas Vehicles
132)    H.R. 1641, Cascadia Marine Trail Study Act
133)    H.R. 1662, Anthony DeJuan Boatwright Act
134)    H.R. 1672, Northwest Straits Marine Conservation Initiative Reauthorization
135)    H.R. 1674, National Consumer Cooperative Bank Act Amendments
136)    H.R. 1675, Frank  Melville Supportive Housing Investment Act
137)    H.R. 1679, House Reservists Pay Adjustment Act
138)    H.R. 1694, Revolutionary War and War of 1812 Battlefield Protection Act
139)    H.R. 1700, National Womens History Museum Act
140)    H.R. 1709, STEM (Science-Technology-Engineering-Math) Education Coordination Act
141)    H.R. 1722, Telework Improvements Act
142)    H.R. 1727, Managing Arson Through Criminal History (MATCH) Act
143)    H.R. 1736, International Science and Technology Cooperation Act










144)    H.R. 1741, Witness Security and Protection Grant Program Act
145)    H.R. 1746, Pre-Disaster Mitigation Act
146)    H.R. 1769, Alpine Lakes Wilderness Additions Act
147)    H.R. 1771, Chesapeake Bay Science, Education and  Ecosystem Enhancement Act
148)    H.R. 1796, Carbon Monoxide Poisoning Prevention Act
149)    H.R. 1803, Veterans Business  Center Act
150)    H.R. 1807, Educating Entrepreneurs through Todays Technology Act
151)    H.R. 1824, Best  Buddies Empowerment for People with Intellectual Disabilities Act
152)    H.R. 1834, Native American Business Development Enhancement Act
153)    H.R. 1838, Amending Small Business Act to modify certain provisions regarding womens business centers
154)    H.R. 1839, To amend the Small Business Act to improve SCORE
155)    H.R. 1842, Expanding Entrepreneurship Act
156)    H.R. 1845, Small Business Development Centers Modernization Act
157)    H.R. 1849, World War I Memorial and Centennial Act
158)    H.R. 1854, Modifying an environmental infrastructure project for Big Bear Lake, California
159)    H.R. 1855, SECTORS Act
160)    H.R. 1858, Providing for a boundary adjustment for Roosevelt National Forest in Colorado
161)    H.R. 1875, End the Trade Deficit Act
162)    H.R. 1879, National Guard Employment Protection Act
163)    H.R. 1933, A Child Is Missing Alert and Recovery Center Act
164)    H.R. 1945, Tule River Tribe Water Development Act
165)    H.R. 2008, Bonneville Unit Clean Hydropower Facilitation Act
166)    H.R. 2020, Networking and Information Technology Research and Development Act
167)    H.R. 2034, Rural Homeowners Protection Act
168)    H.R. 2062, Migratory Bird Treaty Act Penalty and Enforcement Act
169)    H.R. 2092, Kingman and Heritage Islands Act
170)    H.R. 2093, Clean Coastal Environment and Public Health Act
171)    H.R. 2134, Western Hemisphere Drug Policy Commission Act
172)    H.R. 2136, Honorable Stephanie Tubbs Jones College Fire Prevention Act









173)    H.R. 2142, Government Efficiency, Effectiveness, and Performance Improvement Act
174)    H.R. 2173, Naming Carl B. Smith Post Office in Island Falls, Maine
175)    H.R. 2174, Naming Clyde Hichborn Post Office in Howland, Maine
176)    H.R. 2187, 21st Century Green High-Performing Public School Facilities Act
177)    H.R. 2188, Joint Ventures for Bird Habitat Conservation Act
178)    H.R. 2200, Transportation Security Administration Authorization Act
179)    H.R. 2221, Data Accountability and Trust Act
180)    H.R. 2247, Congressional Review Act Improvement Act
181)    H.R. 2265, Magna Water District Water Reuse and Groundwater Recharge Act
182)    H.R. 2278, Directing President to submit a report to Congress a report on anti-American incitement to violence in the Middle East
183)    H.R. 2288, Endangered Fish Recovery Programs Improvement Act
184)    H.R. 2314, Native Hawaiian Government Reorganization Act
185)    H.R. 2330, Camp Hale Study Act
186)    H.R. 2340, Salmon Lake Land Selection Resolution Act
187)    H.R. 2352, Job Creation Through Entrepreneurship Act
188)    H.R. 2377, Establishing an awards program recognizing excellence exhibited by public school system employees
189)    H.R. 2410, Foreign Relations Authorization Act, FY 2010 and FY 2011
190)    H.R. 2421, Mothers Day Centennial Commemorative Coin Act
191)    H.R. 2423, Naming George P. Kazen Federal Building and U.S. Courthouse in Laredo, Texas
192)    H.R. 2430, Directing the Secretary of Interior to continue stocking fish in certain lakes
193)    H.R. 2442, Bay Area Regional Water Recycling Program Expansion
194)    H.R. 2454, American Clean Energy and Security Act
195)    H.R. 2476, Ski Area Recreational Opportunity Enhancement Act
196)    H.R. 2480, Truth in Fur Labeling Act
197)    H.R. 2489, National Land Remote Sensing Outreach Act
198)    H.R. 2499, Puerto Rico Democracy Act
199)    H.R. 2510, Absentee Ballot Track, Receive and Confirm Act
200)    H.R. 2522, Regarding Calleguas Municipal Water District Recycling Project
201)    H.R. 2529, Neighborhood Preservation Act
202)    H.R. 2546, Blue Star/Gold Star Flag Act
203)    H.R. 2554, National Association of Registered Agents and Brokers Reform Act
204)    H.R. 2571, Nonadmitted and Reinsurance Reform Act
205)    H.R. 2611, Authorizing the Securing the Cities Initiative of the Department of Homeland Security
206)    H.R. 2623, Clarifying and expanding the definition of certain persons under the federal securities law
207)    H.R. 2646, Government Accountability Office Improvement Act
208)    H.R. 2661, Court Security Enhancement Act
209)    H.R. 2664, Promoting Transparency in Financial Reporting Act









210)    H.R. 2693, Oil Pollution Research and Development Program Reauthorization Act
211)    H.R. 2728, William Orton Law Library Improvement and Modernization Act
212)    H.R. 2729, Authorizing designation of National Environmental Research Parks
213)    H.R. 2741, Regarding water recycling and reuse project in Hermiston, Oregon
214)    H.R. 2749, Food Safety Enhancement Act
215)    H.R. 2751, Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Act
216)    H.R. 2770, Veterans Nonprofit Research and Education Corporations Enhancement Act
217)    H.R. 2780, Federal Restricted Buildings and Grounds Improvement Act
218)    H.R. 2781, Designating segment of Molalla River in Oregon as part of National Wild and Scenic Rivers System
219)    H.R. 2788, Distinguished Flying Cross National Memorial Act
220)    H.R. 2806, Adjusting border of Stephen Mather Wilderness and the North Cascades National Park
221)    H.R. 2843, Architect of the Capitol Appointment Act
222)    H.R. 2864, Amending the Hydrographic Services Improvement Act
223)    H.R. 2868,  Chemical and Water Security Act
224)    H.R. 2873, Enhanced SEC Enforcement Authority Act
225)    H.R. 2947, Securities Law Technical Corrections Act
226)    H.R. 2950, Regarding prepayment of contracts between U.S. and Uintah Water Conservancy District
227)    H.R. 3014, Small Business Health Information Technology Financing Act
228)    H.R. 3029, Improving Efficiency of Gas Turbines
229)    H.R. 3040, Senior Financial Empowerment Act
230)    H.R. 3101, 21st Century Communications and Video Accessibility Act
231)    H.R. 3113, Upper Elk River Wild and Scenic Study Act
232)    H.R. 3123, Regarding collapsed drainage tunnel in Leadville, Colorado
233)    H.R. 3125, Radio Spectrum Inventory Act
234)    H.R. 3137, Regarding authority of U.S. Postal Service to accept donations as an additional source of funding for commemorative plaques
235)    H.R. 3146, 21st Century FHA Housing Act
236)    H.R. 3157, Naming Max J. Beilke Department of Veterans Affairs Outpatient Clinic
237)    H.R. 3165, Wind Energy Research and Development Act
238)    H.R. 3175, Conveying to Miami-Dade County certain federally owned land in Florida
239)    H.R. 3193, Naming Alto Lee Adams, Sr., U.S. Courthouse in Fort Pierce, Florida
240)    H.R. 3224, Building a vehicle maintenance building for Smithsonian Institution









241)    H.R. 3237, Enacting certain laws relating to national and commercial space programs
242)    H.R. 3246, Advanced Vehicle Technology Act
243)    H.R. 3254, Taos Pueblo Indian Water Rights Settlement Act
244)    H.R. 3276, American Medical Isotopes Production Act
245)    H.R. 3305, Naming H. Dale Cook Federal Building and U.S. Courthouse in Tulsa, Oklahoma
246)    H.R. 3342, Aamodt Litigation Settlement Act
247)    H.R. 3388, Petersburg National Battlefield Boundary Modification Act
248)    H.R. 3476, Reauthorizing the Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area Citizen Advisory Commission
249)    H.R. 3506, Eliminate Privacy Notice Confusion Act
250)    H.R. 3527, FHA Multifamily Loan Limit Adjustment Act
251)    H.R. 3534, CLEAR Act (Hold BP Responsible for Oil Spill)
252)    H.R. 3537, Junior  Duck Stamp Conservation and Design Program Reauthorization Act
253)    H.R. 3542, State Admission Day Recognition Act
254)    H.R. 3553, Indian Veterans Housing Opportunity Act
255)    H.R. 3570,  Satellite Home Viewer Reauthorization Act
256)    H.R. 3585, Solar Technology Roadmap Act
257)    H.R. 3598,  Energy and Water Research Integration Act
258)    H.R. 3603, Renaming the Ocmulgee National Monument
259)    H.R. 3618, Clean Hull Act
260)    H.R. 3631, Medicare Premium Fairness Act
261)    H.R. 3644, Ocean, Coastal, and Watershed Education Act
262)    H.R. 3650, Harmful Algal Blooms and Hypoxia Research and Control Amendments Act
263)    H.R. 3671, Upper Mississippi River Basin Protection Act
264)    H.R. 3689, Extending legislative authority of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Fund
265)    H.R. 3695, Billys Law (relating to National Missing and Unidentified Persons System)
266)    H.R. 3726, Castle Nugent National Historic Site Establishment Act
267)    H.R. 3737,  Small Business Microlending Expansion Act
268)    H.R. 3738, Small Business Early-Stage Investment Act
269)    H.R. 3743, Small Business Disaster Readiness and Reform Act
270)    H.R. 3759, BLM Contract Extension Act
271)    H.R. 3763, Making Certain Amendments to Fair Credit Reporting Act
272)    H.R. 3791, Fire Grants Reauthorization Act
273)    H.R. 3804, National Park Service Authorities and Corrections Act
274)    H.R. 3808, Interstate Recognition of Notarizations Act 
275)    H.R. 3820, Natural Hazards Risk Reduction Act
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








276)    H.R. 3854,  Small Business Financing and Investment Act
277)    H.R. 3885, Veterans Dog Training Therapy Act
278)    H.R. 3913, Directing Mayor of District of Columbia to establish a District of Columbia National Guard Educational Assistance Program
279)    H.R. 3923, Sugar Loaf Fire Protection District Land Exchange Act
280)    H.R. 3940, Facilitating public education programs in the non-self-governing territories of the United States
281)    H.R. 3949, Veterans  Small Business Assistance and Servicemembers Protection Act
282)    H.R. 3954, Florida National Forest Land Adjustment Act
283)    H.R. 3963, Criminal Investigative Training Restoration Act
284)    H.R. 3967, Extending National Great Black Americans Commemoration Act
285)    H.R. 3976, Helping Heroes Keep Their Homes Act
286)    H.R. 3980, Redundancy Elimination and Enhanced Performance for Preparedness Grants Act
287)    H.R. 3989, Heart Mountain Relocation Center Study Act
288)    H.R. 3993, Calling Card Consumer Protection Act
289)    H.R. 4003, Hudson River Valley Special Resource Study Act
290)    H.R. 4061, Cybersecurity Enhancement Act
291)    H.R. 4098, Secure Federal File Sharing Act
292)    H.R. 4154, Permanent Estate Tax Relief for Families, Farmers and Small Businesses Act
293)    H.R. 4178, Deposit Restricted Qualified Tuition Programs Act
294)    H.R. 4194, Law Student Clinic Participation Act
295)    H.R. 4247, Keeping All Students Safe Act
296)    H.R. 4252, Inland Empire Perchlorate Ground Water Plume Assessment Act
297)    H.R. 4307, Naming Alejandro Renteria Ruiz Department of Veterans Affairs Clinic
298)    H.R. 4349, Hoover Power Allocation Act
299)    H.R. 4395, Revising the boundaries of the Gettysburg National Military Park
300)    H.R. 4438, San Antonio Missions National Historical Park Boundary Expansion Act
301)    H.R. 4445, Indian Pueblo Cultural Center Clarification Act
302)    H.R. 4451, Collinsville Renewable Energy Promotion Act
303)    H.R. 4474, Idaho Wilderness Water Facilities Act
304)    H.R. 4491, Buffalo Soldiers in the National Parks Study Act
305)    H.R. 4495, Naming Jim Kolbe Post Office in Patagonia, Arizona
306)    H.R. 4505, Enabling State homes to furnish nursing home care to parents any of whose children died while serving in the Armed Forces
307)    H.R. 4506, Bankruptcy Judgeship Act
308)    H.R. 4514, Colonel Charles Young Home Study Act
309)    H.R. 4543, Naming Anthony J. Cortese Post Offie Building in San Jose, California
310)    H.R. 4592, Energy Jobs for Veterans Act
311)    H.R. 4614, Katie Sepich Enhanced DNA Collection Act
312)    H.R. 4624, Naming SPC Nicholas Scott Hartge Post Office in Rome City, Indiana
313)    H.R. 4626, Health Insurance Industry Fair Competition Act
314)    H.R. 4658, Benton MacKaye Cherokee National Forest Land Consolidation Act
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








315)    H.R. 4667, Veterans Compensation Cost-of-Living Adjustment Act
316)    H.R. 4686, Rota Cultural and Natural Resources Study Act
317)    H.R. 4692, National Manufacturing Strategy Act
318)    H.R. 4748, Northern Border Counternarcotics Strategy Act
319)    H.R. 4773, Fort Pulaski National Monument Lease Authorization Act
320)    H.R. 4783, Accelerating income tax benefits for charitable cash contributions for the relief of victims of the earthquake in Chile
321)    H.R. 4810, End Veteran Homelessness Act
322)    H.R. 4825, Directing unused appropriations for Members Representational Allowances to be deposited in the Treasury and used for deficit reduction or to reduce the federal debt
323)    H.R. 4842, Homeland Security Science and Technology Authorization Act
324)    H.R. 4849, Small Business and Infrastructure Jobs Tax Act
325)    H.R. 4973, National Wildlife Refuge Volunteer Improvement Act
326)    H.R. 4994, Taxpayer Assistance Act
327)    H.R. 5013, IMPROVE Acquisition Act
328)    H.R. 5017, Rural Housing Preservation and Stabilization Act
329)    H.R. 5019, Home Star Jobs Act
330)    H.R. 5026, GRID Act
331)    H.R. 5072, FHA Reform Act
332)    H.R. 5114, Flood Insurance Reform Priorities Act
333)    H.R. 5116, America COMPETES Reauthorization Act
334)    H.R. 5133, Naming Staff Sergeant Frank T. Carvill and Lance Corporal Michael A. Schwarz Post Office Building in Carlstadt, New Jersey
335)    H.R. 5136, National Defense Authorization Act for FY 2011
336)    H.R. 5138, International Megans Law
337)    H.R. 5143, National Criminal Justice Commission Act
338)    H.R. 5145, Assuring Quality Care for Veterans Act
339)    H.R. 5156, Clean Energy Technology Manufacturing and Export Assistance Act
340)    H.R. 5175, DISCLOSE Act
341)    H.R. 5220, Eunice Kennedy Shriver Act (reauthorizing the Special Olympics Sport and Empowerment Act of 2004)
342)    H.R. 5266, National Commission on Children and Disasters Reauthorization Act
343)    H.R. 5281, Removal Clarification Act
344)    H.R. 5297, Small Business Jobs and Credit Act
345)    H.R. 5320, Assistance, Quality and Affordability Act (Amendments to Safe Drinking Water Act)
346)    H.R. 5327, United States-Israel Rocket and Missile Defense Cooperation and Support Act
347)    H.R. 5341, Naming Joyce Rogers Post Office Building in Brighton, Michigan
348)    H.R. 5390, Naming David John Donafee Post Office Building in Cleveland, Ohio
349)    H.R. 5414, Conveying small parcel of National Forest System land in the Francis Marion National Forest in South Carolina
350)    H.R. 5450, Naming Tom Bradley Post Office Building in Los Angeles, California
351)    H.R. 5481, Giving Subpoena Power to the National Commission on the BP Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill
352)    H.R. 5503, Just Compensation for Families of BP Oil Spill Victims (SPILL Act)
353)    H.R. 5532, International Adoption Harmonization Act









354)    H.R. 5545, Deauthorizing a portion of Potomac River navigation water project, under the jurisdiction of the Corps of Engineers
355)    H.R. 5551, Requiring Secretary of Treasury to certify that determinations on the disbursements from the Small Business Lending Fund are based on economic need
356)    H.R. 5566, Prevention of Interstate Commerce in Animal Crush Videos Act
357)    H.R. 5604, Surface Transportation Savings Act
358)    H.R. 5609, Amending the Lobbyist Disclosure Act to prohibit lobbying activities on behalf of nations determined to be state sponsors of terrorism
359)    H.R. 5662, STALKERS Act
360)    H.R. 5669, Directing Secretary of Agriculture to convey certain federally owned land located in Story County, Iowa
361)    H.R. 5681, Improving Administrative Operations at the Library of Congress
362)    H.R. 5682, Improving Operation of Certain Facilities and Programs of the House of Representatives
363)    H.R. 5712, Veterans, Seniors, and  Childrens Health Technical Corrections Act
364)    H.R. 5716, Safer Oil and Natural Gas Drilling Technology Research and Development Act









365)    H.R. 5730, Surface Transportation Earmark Rescission, Savings and Accountability Act
366)    H.R. 5751, Lobbying Disclosure Enhancement Act
367)    H.R. 5810, Securing Aircraft Cockpits Against Lasers Act
368)    H.R. 5822, FY 2011 Military Construction and Veterans Affairs Appropriations Act
369)    H.R. 5825, Multi-State Disaster Relief Act
370)    H.R. 5827, Protecting Gun Owners in Bankruptcy Act
371)    H.R. 5850, FY 2011 Transportation-HUD Appropriations Act
372)    H.R. 5901, Real Estate Jobs and Investment Act


----------



## Wicked Jester (Feb 20, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > What did the republicans obstruct?
> ...


And who holds the majority in the senate?........They need to get off their asses.

That's the republicans fault?.......Give me a break.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 21, 2011)

Wicked Jester said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Wicked Jester said:
> ...


thats not republican obstruction
thats DEMOCRAT obstruction


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 21, 2011)

Wicked Jester said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Wicked Jester said:
> ...


 
The Republicans filibustered every one of those.

Don't you know anything? Why the fuck are you here?


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 21, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...


I know why YOU'RE here. You have absolutely nothing else to do.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 21, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Wicked Jester said:
> ...


hey, your democrats had 59 seats in the senate and they couldnt get ANYTHING done on all those bills?
dont blame the GOP for dem ineffectiveness


----------



## Wicked Jester (Feb 21, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...


Good for them........Better to fillibuster and see just what the hell the dem's are wasting their money on before going to vote. As we've seen these last few years as the dems held both majorities and two years under a president who spends money in eleven different directions without knowing where one penny is going, it's better safe than sorry. Better to see just what kind of ridiculous crap the dem's tried to stuff in those bills.

Face it, the dem's have been spending like a bunch of drunken sailors. They are not very bright people. theye've trashed this economy to no end. It's time their drunken spending days come to an and.

And besides, just look at the idiocy of quite a few of those bills. They should be tossed forthwit.....But then the dem's need to be tossed forthwit. They're useless!


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 21, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


You need 60 votes to overcome a filibuster, dumbass.


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 21, 2011)

Wicked Jester said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Wicked Jester said:
> ...


 

You just admitted that the Republicans did nothing but obstruct.


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 21, 2011)

Keeping Up With the Christies



There is no sound economic justification for the decision by Gov. Rick Scott of Florida to reject $2.4 billion in federal financing for the vital Tampa-to-Orlando high-speed rail project. *Political pandering to his Tea Party supporters is the only explanation we can come up with.*

Over a decade in the planning, the 84-mile corridor was on the verge of construction, *with guarantees from private entrepreneurs that they would absorb any cost overruns and operating deficits for the state*. They anticipated 24,000 new jobs and a cornucopia of business growth for recession-mired Florida. 

The 90 percent federal share was nevertheless rejected by Mr. Scott, *whose deliberations included a 30-minute meeting with Tea Party opponents of the project. Instead of waiting for a state study, as he had promised*, Mr. Scott offered his own pound-foolish bromides, as he insisted that Florida would not chip in $280 million. 

He contended that state taxpayers could ultimately be on the hook for the whole project &#8212; *but had no evidence to support that claim*. &#8220;I don&#8217;t see any way anyone is going to get a return,&#8221; he insisted, *ignoring the fact that sponsors included eight business consortiums from 11 countries*. They saw opportunities rolling from the Orlando airport to downtown Tampa, Orange County, Walt Disney World and Lakeland. 

Mr. Scott isn&#8217;t the only Republican governor who has decided to play politics with his state&#8217;s economic future. *New Jersey&#8217;s Chris Christie killed off a much-needed mass-transit tunnel under the Hudson River, and lost $3 billion in pledged federal funds.* Wisconsin&#8217;s Scott Walker and Ohio&#8217;s John Kasich made a show of rebuffing a total of $1.2 billion in federal high-speed rail help.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 21, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...


no shit, dumbfuck
yet the GOP was able to get 60 votes when they had less seats
the dems only needed to get ONE and couldnt
thats the DEMS fault
too bad they never learned how to compromise


----------



## Wicked Jester (Feb 21, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...


Fillibusterng to buy time time to ensure the dem's aren't further screwing this great countries citizens is not obstruction, it's necessity. They can no longer be trusted.


----------



## Old Rocks (Feb 21, 2011)

Let's see. The Repukes lied us into a war, then managed that war in such a way as to gaurentee failure. They let the mastermind of the murder of 3000 Americans on American soil get away, go unpunished for that. They managed to take an economy that was running a surplus and turn it into a huge deficit by cutting taxes in the midst of two wars. Then they totally crashed the economy. A crash that we are still trying to recover from.

And you state the Dems cannot be trusted?


----------



## Trajan (Feb 21, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



they had a supra majority for what? 8, 9 months?...they could have voted cloture and moved and enacted anything they wanted to and  in some cases did..... they blame the reps because reid and pelosi were incompetent and short sighed,  when they should be blaming their own caucus. .... denial runs deep.


----------



## Wicked Jester (Feb 21, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Let's see. The Repukes lied us into a war, then managed that war in such a way as to gaurentee failure. They let the mastermind of the murder of 3000 Americans on American soil get away, go unpunished for that. They managed to take an economy that was running a surplus and turn it into a huge deficit by cutting taxes in the midst of two wars. Then they totally crashed the economy. A crash that we are still trying to recover from.
> 
> And you state the Dems cannot be trusted?


Still trying to hold the loony liberal line, "they lied us into war". Keep riding that horse with no legs and attempt to nail Jello to the wall. We'll keep laughin' at your sorry asses.

Yeah, you WISH Iraq was a failure. That's what you far left loons want to see. The more dead american troops you see, the harder your lil' needledicks become. You fucks just love dead american troops......Fact is, we won, douchebag.......We did the right thing.....DEAL WITH IT.

And isn't it quite interesting that we now have a president who is so spineless he just sits back and allows China to lecture us and tell us how to run our affairs?

You would have never seen any other president in the last fifty years, save for Carter (white Obama), sit back and take that shit.......JFK, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, REAGAN, GHW Bush, Clinton, and GW Bush would have told 'em to take that shit and shove it up their ass.

No, Not Obama. That would require having a fuckin' spine.


----------



## Toro (Feb 21, 2011)

FTR, talk is that this is all a part of the bald skinny guy running for President.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 21, 2011)

Toro said:


> FTR, talk is that this is all a part of *the bald skinny guy* running for President.


what guy is that?


----------



## rdean (Feb 21, 2011)

Republicans work tirelessly to make sure Americans come in dead last.  Seems to be working.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 21, 2011)

rdean said:


> Republicans work tirelessly to make sure Americans come in dead last.  Seems to be working.


no, thats what you do


----------



## Toro (Feb 21, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > FTR, talk is that this is all a part of *the bald skinny guy* running for President.
> ...


----------



## asterism (Feb 21, 2011)

Toro said:


> FTR, talk is that this is all a part of the bald skinny guy running for President.



He won't get my vote unless he survives the primary and runs against Obama.  I can't think of any other somewhat viable candidate in any party who wouldn't get my vote against Rick Scott.  I voted for him for Governor and I think he'll do an okay job there (as opposed to Alex Sink who I think would have done an absolutely horrible job) but he's not what I want in a President.


----------



## asterism (Feb 21, 2011)

Trajan said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



During the time they had a full 60 vote majority they tried to pass things without the votes instead of concentrating on those things on which they had the votes.  Big time lack of leadership.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Feb 21, 2011)

Mad Scientist said:


> As my wife and I were watching the new this morning this subject came up and my wife asked: "AmTrak looses money and apparently people don't use it much. Why would High Speed Rail be any different?"



I go to Oralano on a regular basis .
It takes less 1 1/2 to get to the resort.
It cost about 10 bucks round trip maybe .
If we took the train it would cost for tickets and parking and then taxis  and be very inconvenient. I wouldnt go.


----------



## Cuyo (Feb 21, 2011)

peach174 said:


> Good for him.
> High speed rail means private citizens are going to lose some or perhaps all of their land in order to put the rail tracks down.
> Not only that but we can't afford it. These things always cost more than they ever project in spending.



Yeah, like the Interstate Highway System.  What a waste of money that was.


----------



## asterism (Feb 21, 2011)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> > As my wife and I were watching the new this morning this subject came up and my wife asked: "AmTrak looses money and apparently people don't use it much. Why would High Speed Rail be any different?"
> ...



That's the point.  You aren't supposed to be pro-choice in resorts.  You are supposed to be locked into the government approved resorts, those on the line.


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 21, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> Keeping Up With the Christies
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No one commented on any of this.  How telling.  Wingnuts don't want their ideological talking points challenged.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Feb 22, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Keeping Up With the Christies
> ...



That is because it is  bullshit Sure they  promise to absorb the cost until they cant and if falls of the  tax payers  who get to subsidies the  coperations .
Remember the  chant, public risk private profit?
This is it.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Feb 22, 2011)

So I still haven't seen a post justifying letting the federal government, which is broke, running up defecits, and has shown it failed to run a rail system profitably for years.....run a new rail system


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 22, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> So I still haven't seen a post justifying letting the federal government, which is broke, running up defecits, and has shown it failed to run a rail system profitably for years.....run a new rail system


nope, havent seen any justification


----------



## BolshevikHunter (Feb 22, 2011)

Waste of money. Good for him. ~BH


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 22, 2011)

BolshevikHunter said:


> Waste of money. Good for him. ~BH


whats funny in all this, RIck Scott has PRIVATE investors interested in developing this very train system
except then it would be a private corp and not be a quasi-governmental org that would be a drag on the tax base instead of contributing to it


----------



## Charles_Main (Feb 22, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> Gov. Rick Scott rejects funding for high-speed rail - St. Petersburg Times
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As I understand it, they are rejecting it because it isn't enough to fully fund them, and would set the states up for Massive Future Costs they would have to fund themselves.

A trend in this Administration. Say you are not raising taxes, then lump Mandates on the states which will force them to raise taxes.


----------



## Trajan (Feb 22, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > What did the republicans obstruct?
> ...



first off reading all of the above, I am reminded that this is a very good reason why we should have a 6 month session, these people have way to much time on their hands,  yet cannot get the big stuff done...because they feel there is nothing they should leave alone and no section, function of life in the US they pass up addressing, looking to solve issues where none exists, because they are elected to...what? find work to do? ..what a joke. 


so synth...wheres the budget, you know the one for this year that was supposed to be done last year? reps fault? Oh I don't think so......

why is the senate off this week with  a drop dead March 4th date for raising the debt limit? 

Who runs the senate?


----------



## AquaAthena (Feb 22, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> Gov. Rick Scott rejects funding for high-speed rail - St. Petersburg Times
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Boy yeah, this country really needs that `spensive high-speed rail. Amtrak is just so overcrowded ya know???  Big demand for high-speed rail. A real Sputnik moment in thinking...

From Thomas Sowell: Reckless Spending - Page 1 - Thomas Sowell - Townhall Conservative

"Nothing more clearly illustrates the utter irresponsibility of Barack Obama than his advocacy of "high-speed rail." The man is not stupid. He knows how to use words that will sound wonderful to people who do not bother to stop and think. 

"High-speed rail may be feasible in parts of Europe or Japan, where the population density is much higher than in the United States. But, without enough people packed into a given space, there will never be enough riders to repay the high cost of building and maintaining a high-speed rail system.

"Building a high-speed rail system between Los Angeles and San Francisco may sound great to people who don't give it any serious thought. But we are a more spread-out country than England, France or Japan. The distance between Los Angeles and San Francisco is greater than the distance from London to Paris-- by more than 100 miles. 

"In Japan, the distance between Tokyo and Osaka is comparable to the distance between Los Angeles and San Francisco. But the population of Osaka alone is larger than the combined populations of Los Angeles and San Francisco-- and Tokyo has millions more people than Osaka. That is why it can make sense to have a "bullet train" running between Osaka and Tokyo, but makes no sense to build one between Los Angeles and San Francisco.

"However little President Obama knows or cares about economics, he knows a lot about politics-- and especially political rhetoric. "*High-speed rail" is simply another set of lofty words to justify continued expansion of government spending. So are words like "investment in education" or "investment" in any number of other things, which serves the same political purpose.*


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 22, 2011)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...


You're talking out your ass again.  You can't seem to kontrol yourself.


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 22, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> > Waste of money. Good for him. ~BH
> ...


Links?

Why isn't he doing it, then?


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 22, 2011)

Charles_Main said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Gov. Rick Scott rejects funding for high-speed rail - St. Petersburg Times
> ...



Try reading the thread.  At least go back to post #205.  Jeez.


----------



## BolshevikHunter (Feb 22, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > BolshevikHunter said:
> ...



I dunno, Might want to ask Dive about that comment. However, It still stands as a waste of fucking money. Anytime the Government is involved, you can bet that money will be wasted and taken and abused by the corruption of Labor politics. They don't need a fucking rail down there, they need roads and bridges upgraded so that the same crybabies won't be blaming the State for not keeping up on it all. ~BH


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 22, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > BolshevikHunter said:
> ...


LOL oh this is rich

take your own advice
read the thread


----------



## BolshevikHunter (Feb 22, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



Yep. Not really a suprise bro. It's a regular circus side show when it comes to this delusional character. ~BH


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 22, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


You have posted links in this thread that back up your bullshit?


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 22, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...


who said I had to post them, and it isnt bullshit
moron
you grow up


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 23, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


Like I said - you're a bullshitter.  You said:



			
				DiveLiar said:
			
		

> RIck Scott has PRIVATE investors interested in developing this very train system
> except then it would be a private corp and not be a quasi-governmental  org that would be a drag on the tax base instead of contributing to it



Then you say that you can't prove it.  Typical for you, really.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 23, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...


grow the fuck up you pathetic PoS
read the THREAD
like YOU told someone else to do rather than give a link
so you fucked YOURSELF MORON


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 23, 2011)

what?? its been 15 minutes and you havent found it yet?
are you really THAT fucking pathetic?


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 23, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


I gave him the post #, asshole.  Give me the post # to prove your bullshit.

You think that neg repping me alleviates the need to prove the shit you constantly spew.  FAIL.


----------



## Ravi (Feb 23, 2011)

What private investors?


----------



## Immanuel (Feb 23, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> > Waste of money. Good for him. ~BH
> ...



I hate to say this, but I am no fan of this move either.  It will more than likely end up that we the tax payers in Florida would still end up footing the bill for this just as we have done for the Bucs stadium.  

I simply do not believe that HSR from Tampa/Orlando/Miami will serve a whole heck of a lot of people, whether they are tourist or residents.

Immie


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 23, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...


you claimed you read the thread
if you did you would have seen it even on the FIRST page
but do continue to be an asshole and make yourself look like an even bigger IDIOT

btw, whine some more about a neg rep


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 23, 2011)

Ravi said:


> What private investors?


another one that didn't read the fucking thread


----------



## Ravi (Feb 23, 2011)

Japan is not a private investor.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 23, 2011)

Ravi said:


> Japan is not a private investor.


go back and read it again


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 23, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Japan is not a private investor.
> ...


Why don't you just point to the post?


----------



## Ravi (Feb 23, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Japan is not a private investor.
> ...


I did...the Japanese foreign minister said:


> Maehara continued in saying that Japan would like to be a financial backer for up to 60% of Floridas share in the system.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 23, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


check the first page, dipshit
Ravi found it


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 23, 2011)

Ravi said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


yes, speaking for PRIVATE INVESTORS IN JAPAN


----------



## Ravi (Feb 23, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


so you say...rumor is all it is at this point.


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 23, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


It doesn't say that.  It says that Japanese companies want the contract to build the trains.  It doesn't say that Japanese companies want to invest in building the system.  The initial construction costs are what is so expensive.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 23, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


wrong
but you are wrong on so many things and you still haven't apologized


----------



## Ravi (Feb 23, 2011)

If he has all these private investors waiting in the wings then he is even more of a moron to turn down the federal money.


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 23, 2011)

Ravi said:


> If he has all these private investors waiting in the wings then he is even more of a moron to turn down the federal money.


do you not understand that if the government is doing it, the private investors wont


----------



## Immanuel (Feb 23, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > If he has all these private investors waiting in the wings then he is even more of a moron to turn down the federal money.
> ...



Are you saying that the private investors would not accept $1.25 Billion of government funding for a program they would like to see completed?

I find that hard to believe and if that is the case, then the private investors you are speaking of are "Off their frigging rockers"!

Immie


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 23, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


you would put your money in something that the government was going to do anyway?


----------



## Immanuel (Feb 23, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



The $1.25 Billion is a far cry from what it is going to take to build this.  If the government gives that kind of money (tax-free) and the private investors are not only going to benefit from the "gift" but keep the revenue for themselves?  Hell yes!

Edit: especially, if the government will cover any losses as they are wont to do with Amtrak!

Immie


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 23, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...


sorry, but i wouldnt go into business on something like that with that much government money involved
you lose control


----------



## Immanuel (Feb 23, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



What?  Do you think the government has any control?  

If they are footing the bill for losses and I keep the revenues?  Damn right I am going to think seriously about going into business like that.  

Who says they are going to control anything?  They will provide the seed money.  The private investors will get the revenue.  Should things go sour like Amtrak, the government will provide incentives to keep the trains rolling... sounds like a win for the private investors all the way around.

Immie


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 23, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...


that aint what would happen
they would end up taking over your project


----------



## Immanuel (Feb 23, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



I can't say for sure, but I think you would be wrong on that account. 

Immie


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 23, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...


they didnt take over amtrak?


----------



## asterism (Feb 23, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



Government funding would mean government micromanagement of the operation.  That's not a good idea for private investors.  Look at what happened to GM's bondholders.


----------



## Immanuel (Feb 23, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



Amtrak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> The National Railroad Passenger Corporation, doing business as Amtrak (reporting mark AMTK), is a government-owned corporation that was organized on May 1, 1971, to provide intercity passenger train service in the United States. "Amtrak" is a portmanteau of the words "America" and "track".[1] It is headquartered at Union Station in Washington, D.C.[2]



I'm not following you.  As far as I know, Amtrak is government owned and always has been.  

There is more at the link.

Amtrak came about because the passenger railways were failing.  The way I understand it is that the government did not "take over" from the railways rather they had it thrown in their laps.  It was either fund it or watch the industry go "Buh Bye".  

Immie


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 23, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...


they took over other failing railroads and made Amtrak out of it


----------



## Immanuel (Feb 23, 2011)

asterism said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



That is a completely different set of circumstances than what we have here.

My personal opinion is that the auto industry and the banks cried wolf and we bailed them out when we should not have done so.  Basically, I would have called their bluff.

I have not been following the issue with the bondholders, so, I am only answering this from what I can see in the few minutes that I have been looking for this. 

Buying bonds is a risk.  Anyone who buys a bond is taking the risk that the issuer will default.  In this case, that is what has happened although it seems that they are being offered stock to replace their losses... that is more than most bondholders of defaulting companies receive.

GM bonds to keep trading after IPO | Business News for Wichita Kansas | Local Journal of Wichita Business News and Kansas Business News | Wichita Eagle



> During GM's bankruptcy last year, the bondholders were given a 10 percent stake in the new GM. But they won't receive the shares until the liquidation of the cast-off portion of the old GM that is still in bankruptcy. That's expected to take three to six months, according to an insider from a firm that's a major bondholder. Until then, GM's bonds will continue to trade.



In the case of the HSR, it seems more like this would be seed money to start the process not control the rails.  It does not appear that the money offered to the State of Florida came with "strings attached" it was just seed money.

Immie


----------



## Immanuel (Feb 23, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



A) Took over or 

B) Had the rails dumped in their laps?  

Hint:  choose B.

Immie


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 23, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...


took over


question, has Amtrak ever been in the black?


----------



## Immanuel (Feb 23, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



Not to my knowledge, but I think you are wrong in the answer to my question.

Immie


----------



## rightwinger (Feb 23, 2011)

I am on the Acela right now, moving along at about 30 mph waiting for traffic ahead to clear


----------



## Immanuel (Feb 23, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> I am on the Acela right now, moving along at about 30 mph waiting for traffic ahead to clear



I had to look up "Acela".  I had no idea what it was.  30 mph?  Dang, if it were any slower you could outrun it!  Well, if you could go the distance that is.  

Immie


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 23, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > I am on the Acela right now, moving along at about 30 mph waiting for traffic ahead to clear
> ...


i assumed it was some local service in NJ
but i had to bing it too
it takes them 7 hours to get from Boston to DC
shoot, i can take a turbo prop from Portland ME and get to DC in a couple hours


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 23, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...


Yes, that is correct.


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 23, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


"took over" is loaded language, and incorrect.  "Saved" the passenger rail industry from extinction is closer to the truth.

Do you remember 'truth'?


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 23, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



What is the cost?


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 23, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...


it was part of a flight to another location, so i dont know


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 23, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...


yes, too bad you dont
the truth is they took over FAILING railroads


----------



## rightwinger (Feb 24, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



It hits around 130 MPH but then you hit stretches where it creeps because of conjestion ahead. Most of the time saved is because it doesn't make as many local stops. I can basically drive in about the same time as the train does it in.

High Speed Rail in the Boston-Washington corridor could still make money and have the ridership.  I can't imagine any other route in the US that makes sense


----------



## DiveCon (Feb 24, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...


i think the Boston/Washington corridor is the only place Amtrak actually breaks even


----------



## The T (Mar 7, 2011)

*Follow up:*

*Fla. high court: Governor can reject rail funding*


[SNIP]
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. &#8212; U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood announced Friday that he plans to send $2.4 billion in high-speed rail funding intended for Florida to other states after the state Supreme Court upheld Gov. Rick Scott's decision to reject the money.
The Republican governor's decision effectively kills the Tampa-Orlando route, but Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., said LaHood later agreed to consider a last-ditch attempt to revive the project. His idea is to let a regional rail authority in central Florida compete with other states for the money Scott rejected.
"If it can't be done, then we're done," Nelson said, calling the proposal a "Hail Mary pass."

[/SNIP]

He's smart. He knows that once the Fed Camel's nose gets under the tent...States become liable holding the bag.

IF this is to be done in Florida...it will be done privately...and when the market dictates (shows interest) such a thing for the State.


----------



## Trajan (Mar 7, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> I am on the Acela right now, moving along at about 30 mph waiting for traffic ahead to clear



hot damn!!! 30 mph? man you're just zipping along! how much was your ticket, where did you start and where are you going?


----------



## Trajan (Mar 7, 2011)

DiveCon said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



yes,correct,  I posted a link to that in one of these rail threads. They BARELY make a profit.BUT to get someone delivered from DC to  to bean town absent the rail congestion which as RW noted slows them down requires a dedicated line, the cost to build and price point for a DC to Boston ticket would put people on the plane....*shrugs*


----------



## The T (Mar 7, 2011)

Trajan said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > I am on the Acela right now, moving along at about 30 mph waiting for traffic ahead to clear
> ...


 
Musa been freight traffic, you know? _Commerce_ flowing that slowed him down...


----------

