# 60 years ago, Edward Murrow took down Joe Mccarthy



## BDBoop (Mar 12, 2014)

60 Years Ago, Edward R. Murrow Took Down Joseph McCarthy

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEvEmkMNYHY]Murrow on McCarthy, no fear, 1954 - YouTube[/ame]



> This is no time for men who oppose Senator McCarthy's methods to keep silent, or for those who approve. We can deny our heritage and our history, but we cannot escape responsibility for the result. There is no way for a citizen of a republic to abdicate his responsibilities. As a nation we have come into our full inheritance at a tender age. We proclaim ourselves, as indeed we are, the defenders of freedom, wherever it continues to exist in the world, but we cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.





"He didn't create this situation of fear, he merely exploited it, and rather successfully."

1954 was four years before I was born. Has anybody here studied the McCarthy era?


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## NoNukes (Mar 12, 2014)

BDBoop said:


> 60 Years Ago, Edward R. Murrow Took Down Joseph McCarthy
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> Murrow on McCarthy, no fear, 1954 - YouTube
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> ...



Some people on the right, such as Political Chic, will give you a reviasionist version of what happened.


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## BDBoop (Mar 12, 2014)

My interest is piqued by this book;

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Blacklisted-History-Senator-McCarthy-Americas/dp/1400081068]Blacklisted by History: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarthy and His Fight Against America&#39;s Enemies: M. Stanton Evans: 9781400081066: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]



> Accused of creating a bogus Red Scare and smearing countless innocent victims in a five-year reign of terror, Senator Joseph McCarthy is universally remembered as a demagogue, a bully, and a liar. History has judged him such a loathsome figure that even today, a half century after his death, his name remains synonymous with witch hunts.
> 
> But that conventional image is all wrong, as veteran journalist and author M. Stanton Evans reveals in this groundbreaking book. The long-awaited Blacklisted by History, based on six years of intensive research, dismantles the myths surrounding Joe McCarthy and his campaign to unmask Communists, Soviet agents, and flagrant loyalty risks working within the U.S. government. Evans&#8217;s revelations completely overturn our understanding of McCarthy, McCarthyism, and the Cold War.
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> Drawing on primary sources&#8212;including never-before-published government records and FBI files, as well as recent research gleaned from Soviet archives and intercepted transmissions between Moscow spymasters and their agents in the United States&#8212;Evans presents irrefutable evidence of a relentless Communist drive to penetrate our government, influence its policies, and steal its secrets. Most shocking of all, he shows that U.S. officials supposedly guarding against this danger not only let it happen but actively covered up the penetration. All of this was precisely as Joe McCarthy contended.


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## BDBoop (Mar 12, 2014)

On the other hand ...



> "America, please read this book."
> -Glenn Beck
> 
> "the greatest book since the Bible"
> -Ann Coulter, Creators Syndicate


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## bripat9643 (Mar 12, 2014)

BDBoop said:


> 60 Years Ago, Edward R. Murrow Took Down Joseph McCarthy
> 
> Murrow on McCarthy, no fear, 1954 - YouTube
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> ...



Yep.  Murrow was a Communist fellow traveler.


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## NoNukes (Mar 12, 2014)

bripat9643 said:


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See what I mean?


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## bodecea (Mar 12, 2014)

NoNukes said:


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Indeed.  It's always rewarding to see one's point made for them with so little effort.


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## TakeAStepBack (Mar 12, 2014)

Then later, McCarthy was vindicated.


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## TakeAStepBack (Mar 12, 2014)

BDBoop said:


> My interest is piqued by this book;
> 
> Blacklisted by History: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarthy and His Fight Against America's Enemies: M. Stanton Evans: 9781400081066: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> ...



A great book. One anyone who has interest in full understanding of historical record should read. This 6 year (i believe) journalist investigation into the events, including the released FBI and Pravda records show why McCarthy was right, and who stoned walled and deliberately created the "witch hunts" that became the battle cry of the day.

in the end, McCarthy was right. There were communist infiltrators within high standing govt. ranks.


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## BDBoop (Mar 12, 2014)

NoNukes said:


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Yeah, well; I mean I saw when you took that moron off ignore for me. But quote him again if he provides proof that his delusions are real.


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## TakeAStepBack (Mar 12, 2014)

Murrow wasn't even the one who tooko down McCarthy. His broadcast came so late that the senator's popularity was already completely toasted by other journalists. The Murrow vs. McCarthy take down is largely hyperbolic and mythical.


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## natstew (Mar 12, 2014)

BDBoop said:


> 60 Years Ago, Edward R. Murrow Took Down Joseph McCarthy
> 
> Murrow on McCarthy, no fear, 1954 - YouTube
> 
> ...



As a child I lived it.(born in 1944 and already reading before I started first grade) McCarthy was right and we are living the results of the Left killing the anti-Communist movement. Edward R, Murrow was either a closet Commie or just a misguided fool!


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## regent (Mar 12, 2014)

The only response to McCarthy attackers, or those that belittle McCarthy's efforts is to label the attackers communists. That was always McCarthy's response to an attack and it still is the best defense. 
Murrow helped but it was McCarthy himself that brought down McCarthy. McCartthy's exhibition before the Army-McCarthy hearings is what did old Joe in. The Army-McCartyy tapes should be shown on tv on a regular basis so that America realizes how fear can be used to create more fear and finally put wedges into a nation.


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## Truthmatters (Mar 12, 2014)

the right doesn't do facts so giving them facts doesn't help


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## BDBoop (Mar 12, 2014)

regent said:


> The only response to McCarthy attackers, or those that belittle McCarthy's efforts is to label the attackers communists. That was always McCarthy's response to an attack and it still is the best defense.
> Murrow helped but it was McCarthy himself that brought down McCarthy. McCartthy's exhibition before the Army-McCarthy hearings is what did old Joe in. The Army-McCartyy tapes should be shown on tv on a regular basis so that America realizes how fear can be used to create more fear and finally put wedges into a nation.



McCarthy and Cruz have so very much in common.


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## Stephanie (Mar 12, 2014)

wow, the Boop is a communist sympathizer...

how special


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## Camp (Mar 12, 2014)

On the same day President Eisenhower called McCarthy "a pimple on the path of progress" in a conversation with Republican National Committee Chairman Leonad Hill.


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## Stephanie (Mar 12, 2014)

oh and we see the Huffingtonpost is a communist sympathizer too

shun that site folks


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## whitehall (Mar 12, 2014)

McCarthyism was a phrase coined by socialist cartoonist Herbert Block who worked for the Washington Post. Block only attacked republicans including McCarthy and Eisenhower but avoided criticizing Truman who presided over the most notorious anti-communist administration in history. Block's cartoon about McCarthy was printed during a democrat administration and senator McCarthy didn't even chair a committee. Senator Patrick McCurran, democrat from Nevada, chaired the notorious "senate internal security subcommittee" and he was an avowed anti-communist. They named a freaking airport in Vegas after McCurran and blamed the anti-communist era on a freaking republican. That's how the system worked then and still works.


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## Vandalshandle (Mar 12, 2014)

I remember the McCarthy era. It was as close as the USA ever came to outright fascism. He was eventually officially censured, and then quickly drank himself to death. A grateful nation gave thanks to God and the whiskey industry.

A little known fact. One of JFK's sisters used to date him.


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## Quantum Windbag (Mar 12, 2014)

Now the New York Times ignores the IRS scandal.


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## bripat9643 (Mar 12, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> I remember the McCarthy era. It was as close as the USA ever came to outright fascism.



BWAHAHAHAHAA!

Man, your killing me!

How is investigating people in sensitive positions to determine whether they have ties to the communist party "close to fascism?"  



Vandalshandle said:


> He was eventually officially censured, and then quickly drank himself to death. A grateful nation gave thanks to God and the whiskey industry..



That's all lies, of course.  Virtually everything the left says about McCarthy is a lie.

By the way, that whole Welch exchange was an utter distortion.  Welch asked McCarthy what evidence McCarthy had that Welch's aid was a communist, and McCarthy gave it to him.  Welch then staged some political theatre for the cameras which Edward R. Murrow played without context over and over and over again, sort of like the Rodney King arrest.

It was classic Goebbels style propaganda.


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## Political Junky (Mar 12, 2014)

BDBoop said:


> regent said:
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> > The only response to McCarthy attackers, or those that belittle McCarthy's efforts is to label the attackers communists. That was always McCarthy's response to an attack and it still is the best defense.
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One wonders if Cruz is modeling himself after McCarthy.


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## Vandalshandle (Mar 12, 2014)

bripat9643 said:


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...and this, ladies and gentleman, is the tragic result of home schooling....


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## Mojo2 (Mar 12, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


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And your posts are but tired cliches which state nothing more than the conventional dumbness of the day.

You help perpetuate other's ignorance like your own.


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## Vandalshandle (Mar 12, 2014)

Mojo2 said:


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Also, for trivia buffs, "Tailgunner Joe's" career was the inspiration for the movie, "The Manchurian Candidate" in 1962. The candidate for VP in the movie was based on Joe's career.  The character is an undercover dupe of the Chinese communists, forever waving pieces of paper purportedly listing names of communists in the State Department. When he complains to his "handler" (his wife), that she is always changing the number of communists that he is exposing, she replies, "Just keep yelling "point of order". to the chairman of the House un-American Activities Committee. Nobody is asking IF there are communists in the State Department. They are asking "How MANY communists are in the State department".

And Mojo, I was watching when Joe was destroying people and their careers, in order to advance his own career. You were not. Murrow took him down, and when Joe looked for support in his own party, even Ike turned his back on him. The man was evil personified. He was a fraud, and opportunist, and a drunk. He was also the most dangerous man in politics that this country has ever seen. He even went after George Marshall, who was the senior military officer in WW2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy


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## Mojo2 (Mar 12, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


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And the service he performed for this country, of ridding it of much of the Communist influences in Government is only now being appreciated.

With the sudden proliferation of Commies in the actual White House, in the West Wing and the Oval Office (!!!  !!!) it seems we need Tailgunner Joe to be revived so he can clean  'em out once more.

Just because you witness something doesn't mean you know what you are seeing.

Millions of Americans SAW Obama campaign for the nomination and then the job of POTUS.

But how many of you actually understood what you were seeing?

You didn't.

So, much for your having been witness to history meaning anything as far as proving a point.

It doesn't.


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## Mojo2 (Mar 13, 2014)

Political Junky said:


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Ladies and Gents,

That is a comment typical of the Liberal mindset, which actually believes that if your opponent LOOKS like someone who is demonized they will also think and behave like that demon.

One of my old sales managers looked like The Fonz. People sometimes asked him if he was The Fonz.

But he wasn't the coolest guy around. And he didn't ride a motorcycle.

Does that surprise you?



EDIT: OMG!!!

Then I might be the first person to tell you that you don't take on Cary Grant's persona just because he's your avi image.

Although, an argument to support the idea of people acting like those they resemble, MIGHT be made with the strange case of our poster, Candycorn and Sandra Flukke, the woman in her avi.

I think we captured lightning in a bottle with [MENTION=20614]candycorn[/MENTION].

She is as much a 'ho' as Ms. Flukke, the bitch who goes through $3k of Trojans a month.





j/k


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## bripat9643 (Mar 13, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


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Yes.  Knowing the facts instead of having a head full of left-wing propaganda is the reason home schooling is far superior to government schooling.

The Real McCarthy Record, Page 4



> The Fred Fisher Episode. On June 9th, the 30th day of the hearings, Welch was engaged in baiting Roy Cohn, challenging him to get 130 communists or subversives out of defense plants "before the sun goes down." The treatment of Cohn angered McCarthy and he said that if Welch were so concerned about persons aiding the Communist Party, he should check on a man in his Boston law office named Fred Fisher, who had once belonged to the National Lawyers Guild (NLG), which Attorney General Brownell had called "the legal mouthpiece of the Communist Party." Welch then delivered the most famous lines from the Army-McCarthy Hearings, accusing McCarthy of "reckless cruelty" and concluding: "Let us not assassinate this lad further, senator. You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last?"
> 
> The fact of the matter was that Fred Fisher's connection with the National Lawyers Guild had been widely publicized two months earlier. Page 12 of the April 16th New York Times had carried a picture of Fisher and a story about his removal from Welch's team because of his past association with the NLG. If Mr. Welch was so worried that McCarthy's remarks might inflict a lifelong "scar" on Fisher's reputation, why did he dramatize the incident in such histrionic fashion? The reason, of course, was that McCarthy had fallen into a trap in raising the Fisher issue, and Welch, superb showman that he was, played the scene for all it was worth. Was Fred Fisher hurt by the incident? Not at all. He became a partner in Welch's Boston law firm, Hale & Dorr, and was elected president of the Massachusetts Bar Association in the mid-1970s.


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## bripat9643 (Mar 13, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


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And the plot of a movie proves exactly what?



Vandalshandle said:


> And Mojo, I was watching when Joe was destroying people and their careers, in order to advance his own career. You were not. Murrow took him down, and when Joe looked for support in his own party, even Ike turned his back on him. The man was evil personified. He was a fraud, and opportunist, and a drunk. He was also the most dangerous man in politics that this country has ever seen. He even went after George Marshall, who was the senior military officer in WW2.



Who did McCarthy "destroy" who wasn't a communist?

Do you have anything on McCarthy that isn't a cheap ad hominem from the gutter?

George Marshall was something of a fellow traveler who played a large part in turning over China to the communists.  McCarthy's criticisms of Marshall were accurate.


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## bripat9643 (Mar 13, 2014)

Political Junky said:


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One wonders if you haven't had a frontal lobotomy.


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## Stephanie (Mar 13, 2014)

the left and the rewriting of history so people accept communism which they are now imposing on the people in this country

just shameful more people don't wake up to this


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## JakeStarkey (Mar 13, 2014)

TakeAStepBack said:


> Then later, McCarthy was vindicated.



In the minds of ignorant, weak headed folks.


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## JakeStarkey (Mar 13, 2014)

TakeAStepBack said:


> Murrow wasn't even the one who tooko down McCarthy. His broadcast came so late that the senator's popularity was already completely toasted by other journalists. The Murrow vs. McCarthy take down is largely hyperbolic and mythical.



The defenders of McCarthy today use the same old discarded rhetoric, call your enemies "communists."


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## Picaro (Mar 13, 2014)

McCarthy and HUAC both were detestable, not to mention none of them turned up any commie in important positions anywhere. 

I'm sure most people don't know that those wonderful Brothers Kennedy were 110% behind ole Joe, and just couldn't suck themselves enough Joe Mc ass. The Johnson/Kennedy hate fest was in no small part because of Johnson's loathing of McCarthy.

And, it was the Army lawyer Joseph Welch who humiliated McCarthy on national television, not Murrow, and Lyndon Johnson who was responsible for the Senate's censure of McCarthy following that appearance.

The Humiliation of Joseph McCarthy



> The new medium aired his worst traits for all of America to see. He was  argumentative, rude, annoying, and usually drunk. The Armys counsel  caught Roy Cohn citing doctored photos as evidence. At one point the  senator blurted out that the Armys chief lawyer, Joseph Welch, had a  young colleague with supposed Communist connections.
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> The dignified, bow-tied Welch coolly replied, Until this moment,  Senator, I think I never really gauged your cruelty, or your  recklessness. . . . Little did I dream you could be so reckless and so  cruel as to do an injury to that lad. It is, I regret to say, equally  true that I fear he shall always bear a scar needlessly inflicted by  you. If it were in my power to forgive you for your reckless cruelty, I  would do so. I like to think Im a gentle man, but your forgiveness will  have to come from someone other than me. The standing-room-only crowd  erupted in applause.
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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 13, 2014)

BDBoop said:


> 60 Years Ago, Edward R. Murrow Took Down Joseph McCarthy
> 
> Murrow on McCarthy, no fear, 1954 - YouTube
> 
> ...



Yes. 

In the 1940's, Soviet spies in the WH advised FDR to surrender Eastern Europe to Joe Stalin and give Mao control of China. FDR aided and abetted history's two biggest mass murderers: Stalin and Mao and was so in love with Totalitarianism that he called Stalin "Uncle Joe".

In 1948-49 the USSR tried to start WWIII with the Berlin Blockade. 

McCarthy made his first speech on Soviet infiltration of the White House in February 1951. 

The Summer of 1951 would see Communist and ChiComs killing US soldiers in Korea

And, in the Bizzaroland of the LMSM, this was how McCarthy started a "Red Scare"


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 13, 2014)

JakeStarkey said:


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^ Low Information Obama Supporter


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## editec (Mar 13, 2014)

The people AT THE TIME fully understood what a drunken, lying, wanker McCarthey was.

THAT is why the GOP got rid of the man.


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## TakeAStepBack (Mar 13, 2014)

JakeStarkey said:


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Unfortunately for you, Fake, the historical record paints an entirely different picture. I realize that anything fact related is far too advanced for a low info partisan like you, but rthe facts are just so stubborn.

There were coomunist members in high roles of government at that time, as McCarthy tried to show. It's all in the record, loser.


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## TakeAStepBack (Mar 13, 2014)

editec said:


> The people AT THE TIME fully understood what a drunken, lying, wanker McCarthey was.
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> THAT is why the GOP got rid of the man.



And in the end, he was vindicated and was correct. That you stopped paying attention, or failed to see the event through to when the files that proved him correct were released, only means you're ignorant. Dont worry about it, though. Many, many low info voters stopped paying attention.


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 13, 2014)

BDBoop said:


> My interest is piqued by this book;
> 
> Blacklisted by History: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarthy and His Fight Against America's Enemies: M. Stanton Evans: 9781400081066: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> ...



We had a thread on that book and the co-author chimed in and schooled Starkey who is apparently incapable of learning

http://www.usmessageboard.com/revie...-of-senator-joe-mccarthy-m-stanton-evans.html


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 13, 2014)

It's amazing how deep the Democrat support runs for Communists and Communism


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 13, 2014)

JakeStarkey said:


> TakeAStepBack said:
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If the shoe fits...


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 13, 2014)

editec said:


> The people AT THE TIME fully understood what a drunken, lying, wanker McCarthey was.
> 
> THAT is why the GOP got rid of the man.



At this time, people understand that McCarthy probably underestimated the level and degree to which the Democrat White House was subservient to Stalin and Communism


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 13, 2014)

Picaro said:


> McCarthy and HUAC both were detestable, not to mention none of them turned up any commie in important positions anywhere.
> 
> I'm sure most people don't know that those wonderful Brothers Kennedy were 110% behind ole Joe, and just couldn't suck themselves enough Joe Mc ass. The Johnson/Kennedy hate fest was in no small part because of Johnson's loathing of McCarthy.
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You're either a liar or a moron because McCarthy had NOTHING to do with the HUAC


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 13, 2014)

60 years ago communists defeated a concerned American patriot.

There, fixed the title

Sent from my Chinese Supercomputer made from XBox parts Bush sent to China


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## Picaro (Mar 13, 2014)

CrusaderFrank said:


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I didn't claim McCarthy and HUAC were the same, speaking of morons and liars. As for your revisionism, it's a load of rubbish; McCarthy never rooted out or found a single Red in any important capacity, so whether they existed or not is moot with regard to McCarthy; he was merely a drunken bully and posturing hack, which is why his own Party sent him out the back door.


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 13, 2014)

Picaro said:


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First things. Are you a Moron? If charged were filed against you, would you claim Diminished Capacity as a defense?


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## Truthmatters (Mar 13, 2014)

Picaro said:


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don't sweat it CF is just a liar


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 13, 2014)

Picaro said:


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Partial List of Communists "Rooted out" by McCarthy

Lauchlin Currie, Gustavo Duran, Theodore Geiger, Mary Jane Keeney, Edward Posniak, Haldore Hanson, John Carter Vincent, Owen Lattimore, Edward Rothschild, Irving Peress, and Annie Lee Moss.

So Liar or Moron, which is it?


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 13, 2014)

Truthmatters said:


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So back to playing with your Legos, the grown ups are talking


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## whitehall (Mar 13, 2014)

The dirty little secret is that 60 years ago well up to about 20 years ago the only information available to Americans was filtered through a liberal established media and slanted toward the democrat party. There was no Fox or talk radio and Morrow and Cronkite editorialized any way they wanted. It's reasonable to refer to  senator McCarthy as bellicose and perhaps a bit bombastic but it is ignorant to blame McCarthy for the anti-communist hearings and legislative agenda when the democrat party was in charge at the time the phrase McCarthyism was coined by a socialist pundit who hated republicans.


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 13, 2014)

Democrats hate McCarthy for pointing out Genuine Communist spies who worked at the White House and subverted US policy for their benefit and they hate Ronald Reagan for collapsing the USSR and freeing Eastern Europe

Do you see a pattern here?


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 13, 2014)

whitehall said:


> The dirty little secret is that 60 years ago well up to about 20 years ago the only information available to Americans was filtered through a liberal established media and slanted toward the democrat party. There was no Fox or talk radio and Morrow and Cronkite editorialized any way they wanted. It's reasonable to refer to  senator McCarthy as bellicose and perhaps a bit bombastic but it is ignorant to blame McCarthy for the anti-communist hearings and legislative agenda when the democrat party was in charge at the time the phrase McCarthyism was coined by a socialist pundit who hated republicans.



^ Winnah Winnah!


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 13, 2014)

So Picaro, will you admit you were  ignorant of the genuine Communist spies outed by McCarthy?


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## Picaro (Mar 13, 2014)

Truthmatters said:


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Yes, apparently so; after seeing his alleged 'list of communists' we can add 'Crank' to his reportorial failings, along with poor reading skills.


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 13, 2014)

Picaro said:


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I get it, you're ignorant. That's OK. It's not your fault, you were trained not to think and you've learned that lesson well.


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 13, 2014)

whitehall said:


> The dirty little secret is that 60 years ago well up to about 20 years ago the only information available to Americans was filtered through a liberal established media and slanted toward the democrat party. There was no Fox or talk radio and Morrow and Cronkite editorialized any way they wanted. It's reasonable to refer to  senator McCarthy as bellicose and perhaps a bit bombastic but it is ignorant to blame McCarthy for the anti-communist hearings and legislative agenda when the democrat party was in charge at the time the phrase McCarthyism was coined by a socialist pundit who hated republicans.



Progressive are pathological liars and have been telling us for generations that "McCarthy's HUAC Blacklisted Innocent people like Zero Mostel and started a Red Scare!!"

It's like LBJ's -- Civil Rights Hero or FDR -- Economic Savior, it's the exact OPPOSITE  of the Truth


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## whitehall (Mar 13, 2014)

Progressive union educated people are victims of pop-culture history. The truth is out there but it's easier to hate republicans than look for it.


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## Vandalshandle (Mar 13, 2014)

Up until now, I considered most of the ultra Right wing posters on this board to be nothing but a handful of cranks and nuts living in their parents basements, spinning their deluded paranoia and fantasies into vast conspiracy plots while worshiping Rush and Coulter. I have not thought of these people as actually dangerous, or even serious. 

But, with this worship cult of McCarthy developing, I see that I have been wrong. McCarthy thrived on an atmosphere of fear and distrust. He had absolutely no ethics or sense of right or wrong. Looking back on that period of my life, I actually remember how the USA became a country where nobody trusted anyone, and the worst thing that could happen to you was to be called a communist. In fact, my aunt got into a feud with my brother and she did what was considered normal in those days. She accused him of being a communist. The Hollywood blacklist destroyed careers of talented writers and actors. Musicians would find themselves blacklisted, simply for recording a folk song that the Right found objectionable. MLK was branded a commie on billboards throughout the South. Teachers and professors lost their jobs. Even the clergy joined in to this toxic atmosphere. Charlie Chaplin was exiled to Europe, for communist leanings, because he mentioned the sacrifice that our ally, the Soviet Union, made against our enemy, the Nazi's. J. Edgar Hoover was hunting for commies under everybody's bed, while denying that there was any such thing as organized crime. He wrote a best selling book about the commies everywhere. The John Birch Society was at it's height of paranoia. Truman was called a commie, having been blamed, somehow, as being responsible for the loss of china. Even he bowed to the pressure by instigating a loyalty oath that all government employees had to swear to. Joe accused George Marshall of being a "fellow traveler'. Even Ike became too timid to buck McCarthy, when he failed to back Marshall. The only other person who made in big in American politics who was as dangerous as McCarthy was Hughie Long.

No, you people are not just a handful of lunatics. You are, in fact, the latest wave of neo Nazis, who, if given the opportunity, would bring this country to it's knees and destroy freedom as we know it. I am not going to dignify your idolization with comment of McCarthy any further. Having lived through this tragic period of our history once, I do not want to have to deal with such thinking again. I'm out of here.


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 13, 2014)

Picaro said:


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Do you know who Owen Lattimore and Lauchlin Currie were? Look them up sometime


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## Picaro (Mar 14, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> Up until now, I considered most of the ultra Right wing posters on this board to be nothing but a handful of cranks and nuts living in their parents basements, spinning their deluded paranoia and fantasies into vast conspiracy plots while worshiping Rush and Coulter. I have not thought of these people as actually dangerous, or even serious.
> 
> But, with this worship cult of McCarthy developing, I see that I have been wrong. McCarthy thrived on an atmosphere of fear and distrust. He had absolutely no ethics or sense of right or wrong. Looking back on that period of my life, I actually remember how the USA became a country where nobody trusted anyone, and the worst thing that could happen to you was to be called a communist. In fact, my aunt got into a feud with my brother and she did what was considered normal in those days. She accused him of being a communist. The Hollywood blacklist destroyed careers of talented writers and actors. Musicians would find themselves blacklisted, simply for recording a folk song that the Right found objectionable. MLK was branded a commie on billboards throughout the South. Teachers and professors lost their jobs. Even the clergy joined in to this toxic atmosphere. Charlie Chaplin was exiled to Europe, for communist leanings, because he mentioned the sacrifice that our ally, the Soviet Union, made against our enemy, the Nazi's. J. Edgar Hoover was hunting for commies under everybody's bed, while denying that there was any such thing as organized crime. He wrote a best selling book about the commies everywhere. The John Birch Society was at it's height of paranoia. Truman was called a commie, having been blamed, somehow, as being responsible for the loss of china. Even he bowed to the pressure by instigating a loyalty oath that all government employees had to swear to. Joe accused George Marshall of being a "fellow traveler'. Even Ike became too timid to buck McCarthy, when he failed to back Marshall. The only other person who made in big in American politics who was as dangerous as McCarthy was Hughie Long.
> 
> No, you people are not just a handful of lunatics. You are, in fact, the latest wave of neo Nazis, who, if given the opportunity, would bring this country to it's knees and destroy freedom as we know it. I am not going to dignify your idolization with comment of McCarthy any further. Having lived through this tragic period of our history once, I do not want to have to deal with such thinking again. I'm out of here.



they're trying to revive all the old John Bircher inneundo. Ann Coulter had nothing new to get attention with so she came up with regurgitating this dumbass conspiritard gibberish again, and of course applying it to Obama and the Democrats, with zero new evidence, just the same old baseless hyperbolic repackaged narratives for a younger and dumber audience.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 14, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> Up until now, I considered most of the ultra Right wing posters on this board to be nothing but a handful of cranks and nuts living in their parents basements, spinning their deluded paranoia and fantasies into vast conspiracy plots while worshiping Rush and Coulter. I have not thought of these people as actually dangerous, or even serious.
> 
> But, with this worship cult of McCarthy developing, I see that I have been wrong. McCarthy thrived on an atmosphere of fear and distrust. He had absolutely no ethics or sense of right or wrong. Looking back on that period of my life, I actually remember how the USA became a country where nobody trusted anyone, and the worst thing that could happen to you was to be called a communist. In fact, my aunt got into a feud with my brother and she did what was considered normal in those days. She accused him of being a communist. The Hollywood blacklist destroyed careers of talented writers and actors. Musicians would find themselves blacklisted, simply for recording a folk song that the Right found objectionable. MLK was branded a commie on billboards throughout the South. Teachers and professors lost their jobs. Even the clergy joined in to this toxic atmosphere. Charlie Chaplin was exiled to Europe, for communist leanings, because he mentioned the sacrifice that our ally, the Soviet Union, made against our enemy, the Nazi's. J. Edgar Hoover was hunting for commies under everybody's bed, while denying that there was any such thing as organized crime. He wrote a best selling book about the commies everywhere. The John Birch Society was at it's height of paranoia. Truman was called a commie, having been blamed, somehow, as being responsible for the loss of china. Even he bowed to the pressure by instigating a loyalty oath that all government employees had to swear to. Joe accused George Marshall of being a "fellow traveler'. Even Ike became too timid to buck McCarthy, when he failed to back Marshall. The only other person who made in big in American politics who was as dangerous as McCarthy was Hughie Long.
> 
> No, you people are not just a handful of lunatics. You are, in fact, the latest wave of neo Nazis, who, if given the opportunity, would bring this country to it's knees and destroy freedom as we know it. I am not going to dignify your idolization with comment of McCarthy any further. Having lived through this tragic period of our history once, I do not want to have to deal with such thinking again. I'm out of here.



That's all horseshit, of course.  It's the commie version of American history.  It's unfortunate that it's the version students are spoon fed in college by commie professors.  People are right not to trust communist, and especially not when they hold sensitive positions in the government.  A communist, in those days, was someone who took orders from Joseph Stalin.  Getting these people out of our government was all McCarthy tried to do, and he was totally justified in doing it.  For that he is vilified.

BTW, numskull, McCarthy had nothing to do with the so-called "Hollywood blacklist."  Furthermore, everyone on it turned out to be a member of the communist party.


----------



## Camp (Mar 14, 2014)

bripat9643 said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > Up until now, I considered most of the ultra Right wing posters on this board to be nothing but a handful of cranks and nuts living in their parents basements, spinning their deluded paranoia and fantasies into vast conspiracy plots while worshiping Rush and Coulter. I have not thought of these people as actually dangerous, or even serious.
> ...



See how it works. This is the McCarthy legacy. Same old dumb stuff. Brainwashed students and commie professors!!!!!! Beware!!!!!


----------



## editec (Mar 14, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> Up until now, I considered most of the ultra Right wing posters on this board to be nothing but a handful of cranks and nuts living in their parents basements, spinning their deluded paranoia and fantasies into vast conspiracy plots while worshiping Rush and Coulter. I have not thought of these people as actually dangerous, or even serious.
> 
> But, with this worship cult of McCarthy developing, I see that I have been wrong. McCarthy thrived on an atmosphere of fear and distrust. He had absolutely no ethics or sense of right or wrong. Looking back on that period of my life, I actually remember how the USA became a country where nobody trusted anyone, and the worst thing that could happen to you was to be called a communist. In fact, my aunt got into a feud with my brother and she did what was considered normal in those days. She accused him of being a communist. The Hollywood blacklist destroyed careers of talented writers and actors. Musicians would find themselves blacklisted, simply for recording a folk song that the Right found objectionable. MLK was branded a commie on billboards throughout the South. Teachers and professors lost their jobs. Even the clergy joined in to this toxic atmosphere. Charlie Chaplin was exiled to Europe, for communist leanings, because he mentioned the sacrifice that our ally, the Soviet Union, made against our enemy, the Nazi's. J. Edgar Hoover was hunting for commies under everybody's bed, while denying that there was any such thing as organized crime. He wrote a best selling book about the commies everywhere. The John Birch Society was at it's height of paranoia. Truman was called a commie, having been blamed, somehow, as being responsible for the loss of china. Even he bowed to the pressure by instigating a loyalty oath that all government employees had to swear to. Joe accused George Marshall of being a "fellow traveler'. Even Ike became too timid to buck McCarthy, when he failed to back Marshall. The only other person who made in big in American politics who was as dangerous as McCarthy was Hughie Long.
> 
> No, you people are not just a handful of lunatics. You are, in fact, the latest wave of neo Nazis, who, if given the opportunity, would bring this country to it's knees and destroy freedom as we know it. I am not going to dignify your idolization with comment of McCarthy any further. Having lived through this tragic period of our history once, I do not want to have to deal with such thinking again. I'm out of here.




Don't despair, amigo. 

This is the second round of these idiots crawling out from under their rocks that I've lived through.


----------



## Picaro (Mar 14, 2014)

Camp said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > *See how it works. This is the McCarthy legacy. Same old dumb stuff. Brainwashed students and commie professors!!!!!! Beware!!!!*!
> ...


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 14, 2014)

Camp said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...



You mean truth?  Yeah, that does get old.  Propaganda makes you feel so much better.

BTW, did you ever consider trying to prove your moronic claims?

Do you think known communists should have been allowed to retain sensitive positions in the State Dept and other government agencies?


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## bripat9643 (Mar 14, 2014)

editec said:


> Don't despair, amigo.
> 
> This is the second round of these idiots crawling out from under their rocks that I've lived through.]



I don't think anyone with your intellectual credentials should go around calling anyone an idiot.


----------



## jillian (Mar 14, 2014)

bripat9643 said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > 60 Years Ago, Edward R. Murrow Took Down Joseph McCarthy
> ...



only to the braindead


----------



## Camp (Mar 15, 2014)

jillian said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...



McCarthy era translation of "fellow traveler" was an easy way to brand someone a communist sympathizer when actual allegations and accusations couldn't be proven. McCarthy and his kind were and are the bright lighted example of governnment institutionalized "bearing of false withness" to demonize, silence and punish individual citizens that challange the status quo and established political ideology that holds power, complete or shared. 
It was never against the law to attend communist meeting in the USA. It was never against the law to be curious about what communism, the new ideology that had taken hold in Russia and was growing in parts of Europe. It wasn't even against the law to be a member of the communist party. The vast majority of those attacked by the McCarthy era conspiracy theorist were attacked not for joining the party, but for attending one of even a few meetings or for having associations with members. Guilt by association and guilt for participating in constitutionally quaranteed rights because the right of the individual had been demonized.


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## Geaux4it (Mar 15, 2014)

BDBoop said:


> 60 Years Ago, Edward R. Murrow Took Down Joseph McCarthy
> 
> Murrow on McCarthy, no fear, 1954 - YouTube
> 
> ...



Turns out that McCarthy was right.

-Geaux


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## Camp (Mar 15, 2014)

Geaux4it said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > 60 Years Ago, Edward R. Murrow Took Down Joseph McCarthy
> ...



How was he right? At best you can bring up the Verona papers to indicate the Soviets had a normal and expected spying program. No larger or more significant than the one we maintained or what was normally maintained by most nations during that period.
McCathy was wrong.


----------



## Votto (Mar 15, 2014)

BDBoop said:


> 60 Years Ago, Edward R. Murrow Took Down Joseph McCarthy
> 
> Murrow on McCarthy, no fear, 1954 - YouTube
> 
> ...



Sadly, the press is not free enough for this to happen again.

When Obama took office the US was ranked about 20th in the world in terms of free press.  Today it is ranked around 47th in the world.


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## editec (Mar 15, 2014)

The man was such a drunken nasty embarrassment  _even the GOP got rid of him_.

Now some of you folks think that the GOP was mistaken.

Anticommie revisionism lives on.


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## Camp (Mar 15, 2014)

After over a half century since demonization was recognized as a method and technique to scare and mislead citizens it is still used successfully by segments of our political structure. It is not a coincedence that the supporters of those that continue to use these methods and techniques are the same ones who attempt to defend the methods and techniques of the McCarthy era.


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## Wry Catcher (Mar 15, 2014)

bripat9643 said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > 60 Years Ago, Edward R. Murrow Took Down Joseph McCarthy
> ...



What's truly scary is you believe the constant parroting of right wing propaganda, and you're not alone.  The more lies, half-truths and character assassinations posted on line by true believers like you, more demagogues and charlatans exploit the voters and some even get elected to high office (see the H. of Rep. for evidence).

Hillary was correct, there is a vast right wing conspiracy and you are a fellow traveler of that movement.


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## bripat9643 (Mar 15, 2014)

Wry Catcher said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...



So your criticism of my post boils down to this:  I'm a right-winger.  Other than that, you haven't said a thing.  You certainly haven't supported your claim that McCarthy was some kind of monster.  You've called him many names, but you haven't supported any of the charges against him.  For instance, can you name a single person whose life he supposedly ruined that wasn't a communist?

Feel free to post whatever evidence you have.  This is your chance to put McCarthy's reputation in a coffin once and for all.


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## bripat9643 (Mar 15, 2014)

Camp said:


> After over a half century since demonization was recognized as a method and technique to scare and mislead citizens it is still used successfully by segments of our political structure. It is not a coincedence that the supporters of those that continue to use these methods and techniques are the same ones who attempt to defend the methods and techniques of the McCarthy era.



Hmmmm . . . . . moron, you do realize, of course, that no one has been demonized more than McCarthy himself.  It's come to the point where liberals use stories about him to scare little children.  If any group is guilty of the crime of "McCarthyism," it's the left-wingers who demonize McCarthy.

The hypocrisy couldn't be more profound.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 15, 2014)

Camp said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...



"Normal and expected spying program?"  I've never seen such idiocy in print before, not even on the internet.  The Soviets had the most massive spying program every conceived.  They had spies in every level of the U.S. government, even right at the top.  The rest of the world had spy programs solely to deal with Soviet aggression.

Soviet espionage in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> During the 1920s Soviet intelligence focused on military and industrial espionage in the United States, specifically in the aircraft and munitions industries, and penetrating the mainline federal government bureaucracies, such as the United States Department of State and War Department.[citation needed] These efforts had mixed results. A front organization was created by a NKVD agent in 1928 for the infiltration and placement of scientists into industry and government: the Federation of Architects, Engineers, Chemists, and Technicians (FAECT). "The FAECT never attracted enough followers to make an impact in labor conditions, but it served the progressive cause in other ways."
> 
> One chief aim was the infiltration, placement, and subversion of American political life at all levels of society. Earl Browder, General Secretary of the Communist Party of the United States (CPUSA), served as an agent recruiter himself on behalf of Soviet intelligence.[1][5]
> 
> ...



The Russians even managed to infiltrate the Manahattan project and steal the secret of the atomic bomb.

The extent of Soviet spying was massive.  Nothing like it has ever been seen or ever will be seen in the future.

It's obvious that like all the dedicated McCarthy haters you're just another fellow traveler.


----------



## Camp (Mar 15, 2014)

bripat9643 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> > After over a half century since demonization was recognized as a method and technique to scare and mislead citizens it is still used successfully by segments of our political structure. It is not a coincedence that the supporters of those that continue to use these methods and techniques are the same ones who attempt to defend the methods and techniques of the McCarthy era.
> ...



McCarthy demonized himself. He publicly made claims and allegations against people and was exposed to be a liar and to have purposely and maliciously bore false witness against people. He was rejected by his own party and followers when they discovered how truely evil that man was. He helped put the country through a shameful era and was rightfully judged a horrible human being. Right wingers believed he was evil as much as left wingers. Everyone believed he was an evil POS by the time his circus master days were over. Republican leaders like President Eisenhower detested him.


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## regent (Mar 15, 2014)

Camp said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Camp said:
> ...



People that detested McCarthy were obviously communists. Ike chose to destest McCarthy so....


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## Wry Catcher (Mar 15, 2014)

bripat9643 said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



I don't have to name names, he was a drunk (see how he died) and there is an historical record of his excesses.  He was a monster who harmed the lives of others for personal gain.  

See: 
McCarthyTimeline


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## bripat9643 (Mar 15, 2014)

Wry Catcher said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Wry Catcher said:
> ...



The so-called "historical record" is all fellow traveler and commie propaganda.  Whether he was a "drunk" or not is beside the point.  For the record, McCarthy didn't drink anymore than a typical Washington politician.  he nursed a single drink all night.

You and the rest of your Komrades keep claiming he "harmed the lives of others for personal gain."  If that's so, then why can't you name anyone he supposedly harmed who wasn't a communist?  The answer is that you can't because there is no such person. 

Liberals denounced McCarthy because they were afraid of getting caught, so they fought back like animals to hide their own collaboration with a regime as evil as the Nazis."


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## bripat9643 (Mar 15, 2014)

regent said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



Ike was about as right-wing as FDR.  It's hardly surprising he didn't like McCarthy.


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## bripat9643 (Mar 15, 2014)

Camp said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Camp said:
> ...



Really?  Can you quote one of these supposed lies?  Can you name anyone he falsely maligned?  We're all waiting for one of you fellow travelers to produce at least a single name.



Camp said:


> He was rejected by his own party and followers when they discovered how truely evil that man was. .



That was pure political expediency that was a result of the fact that the propaganda campaign by communists and fellow travelers succeeded.  it was utterly disgraceful.



Camp said:


> He helped put the country through a shameful era and was rightfully judged a horrible human being. Right wingers believed he was evil as much as left wingers. Everyone believed he was an evil POS by the time his circus master days were over. Republican leaders like President Eisenhower detested him.



Eisenhower was no "right-winger."  He was as liberal as FDR.  Everything else you posted is pure bullshit.  It's fellow traveler propaganda.  McCarthy saved this country from communist infiltration and subversion. McCarthy threatened to expose all the filthy despicable communist traitors scurrying around in the dark.  He was the single greatest threat to the left of the 20th century.   That's why fellow travelers like you hate him so fiercely and fought so viciously and underhandedly to destroy him.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Mar 15, 2014)

Wry Catcher said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Wry Catcher said:
> ...



You don't to to name names, Freddo because there aren't any and you're too much of a partisan hack to admit it


----------



## Barb (Mar 15, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> Up until now, I considered most of the ultra Right wing posters on this board to be nothing but a handful of cranks and nuts living in their parents basements, spinning their deluded paranoia and fantasies into vast conspiracy plots while worshiping Rush and Coulter. I have not thought of these people as actually dangerous, or even serious.
> 
> But, with this worship cult of McCarthy developing, I see that I have been wrong. McCarthy thrived on an atmosphere of fear and distrust. He had absolutely no ethics or sense of right or wrong. Looking back on that period of my life, I actually remember how the USA became a country where nobody trusted anyone, and the worst thing that could happen to you was to be called a communist. In fact, my aunt got into a feud with my brother and she did what was considered normal in those days. She accused him of being a communist. The Hollywood blacklist destroyed careers of talented writers and actors. Musicians would find themselves blacklisted, simply for recording a folk song that the Right found objectionable. MLK was branded a commie on billboards throughout the South. Teachers and professors lost their jobs. Even the clergy joined in to this toxic atmosphere. Charlie Chaplin was exiled to Europe, for communist leanings, because he mentioned the sacrifice that our ally, the Soviet Union, made against our enemy, the Nazi's. J. Edgar Hoover was hunting for commies under everybody's bed, while denying that there was any such thing as organized crime. He wrote a best selling book about the commies everywhere. The John Birch Society was at it's height of paranoia. Truman was called a commie, having been blamed, somehow, as being responsible for the loss of china. Even he bowed to the pressure by instigating a loyalty oath that all government employees had to swear to. Joe accused George Marshall of being a "fellow traveler'. Even Ike became too timid to buck McCarthy, when he failed to back Marshall. The only other person who made in big in American politics who was as dangerous as McCarthy was Hughie Long.
> 
> No, you people are not just a handful of lunatics. You are, in fact, the latest wave of neo Nazis, who, if given the opportunity, would bring this country to it's knees and destroy freedom as we know it. I am not going to dignify your idolization with comment of McCarthy any further. Having lived through this tragic period of our history once, I do not want to have to deal with such thinking again. I'm out of here.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Vandalshandle again.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 16, 2014)

Camp said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



Who did McCarthy bear false witness against?  Can you name one person he lied about?   If anyone has been lied about, it's McCarthy.



Camp said:


> It was never against the law to attend communist meeting in the USA. It was never against the law to be curious about what communism, the new ideology that had taken hold in Russia and was growing in parts of Europe. It wasn't even against the law to be a member of the communist party.



Who ever said it was?  However, that doesn't make it good government policy to allow such people to have sensitive positions in the State Dept or in the Military.  No one was sent to prison by the McCarthy hearings.  The worst thing that happened is they lost their jobs, and they deserved to get fired.



Camp said:


> The vast majority of those attacked by the McCarthy era conspiracy theorist were attacked not for joining the party, but for attending one of even a few meetings or for having associations with members. Guilt by association and guilt for participating in constitutionally quaranteed rights because the right of the individual had been demonized.



"Attacked by the McCarthy era?"  That's certainly a nebulous category.  When discussing McCarthy himself, the only people who are relevant are the ones who were hauled in into the hearing to testify.  These people were not innocent.  They had done a lot more than attend a few meetings.  They were hardened communists, official members of the party.  They worked for communist front groups like the National Lawyers Guild.

Your characterization of the McCarthy era is pure bullshit.

It's obvious that you're a fellow traveler, chump.  There's no difference between what you believe and what Alger Hiss believed.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Mar 16, 2014)

"When discussing McCarthy himself, the only people who are relevant are" everyone tainted by suspicion and innuendo and slander.

If bripat had been hauled in to testify as the anarchist he is, he would be screaming to the high heavens.


----------



## S.J. (Mar 16, 2014)

Obama is living proof that McCarthy was right.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 16, 2014)

JakeStarkey said:


> "When discussing McCarthy himself, the only people who are relevant are" everyone tainted by suspicion and innuendo and slander.



Wrong.  Not everyone suspected of being a Communist is relevant because there were thousands upon thousands of such weasels, and McCarthy's hearings only concerned the few who held sensitive posts in the State Dept. and the Military.



JakeStarkey said:


> If bripat had been hauled in to testify as the anarchist he is, he would be screaming to the high heavens.



I would never have been hauled in to testify because I have never been a member of the Communist party.  I never took orders directly from Joseph Stalin, an official enemy of the United States, as did all members if the Communist Party during the McCarthy era.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Mar 16, 2014)

JakeStarkey said:


> "When discussing McCarthy himself, the only people who are relevant are" everyone tainted by suspicion and innuendo and slander.
> 
> If bripat had been hauled in to testify as the anarchist he is, he would be screaming to the high heavens.



Jake, how many times can you be proven wrong, yet you still continue posting your nonsense?


----------



## Luddly Neddite (Mar 16, 2014)

bripat9643 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > "When discussing McCarthy himself, the only people who are relevant are" everyone tainted by suspicion and innuendo and slander.
> ...



Neither did many of those whose careers and lives were ruined by his asssinine witchhunt. 

And, being communist is legal.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 16, 2014)

Luddly Neddite said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



McCarthy didn't call anyone in to testify who wasn't later proven to be a loyal member of the communist party.  He didn't ruin any innocent person's life.  I've asked this question many times in the past, and I've never got an answer.  I'll ask it one more time for your benefit:  Can you name a single innocent person whose life McCarthy ruined?  Just one?



Luddly Neddite said:


> And, being communist is legal.



It may be "legal," but they don't belong in sensitive positions in the State Dept or the military.  Being an alcoholic is legal, but we don't knowingly hire them to drive buses or fly airplanes.

Also, Communists are traitors to their country.  They owed fealty to Joseph Staling, a declared enemy of the United States.  What kind of scumbag pledges his allegiance to an enemy of his country?  These people deserved to be scorned.


----------



## Howey (Mar 16, 2014)

BDBoop said:


> 60 Years Ago, Edward R. Murrow Took Down Joseph McCarthy
> 
> Murrow on McCarthy, no fear, 1954 - YouTube
> 
> ...



The comparisons between McCarthy and Issa are incredible.


----------



## Wry Catcher (Mar 16, 2014)

bripat9643 said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



You are either the most ignorant person posting on this message board or one of the biggest liars.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 17, 2014)

Wry Catcher said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Wry Catcher said:
> ...



Translation:  You can't produce a single name of an innocent person who McCarthy "ruined."

You're just another fellow traveler.


----------



## bripat9643 (Mar 17, 2014)

Howey said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > 60 Years Ago, Edward R. Murrow Took Down Joseph McCarthy
> ...



Yep, incredibly moronic.


----------



## Picaro (Mar 17, 2014)

Joe McCarthy was a disaffected New Dealer who became a Communist agent, probably because of  his disillusion with the New Deal not being radical enough for him and being a homosexual, and was recruited by the Soviets; many of the Soviet agents in the West, both in the U.S. and Europe were homosexuals. Harry Hays, the 'Father' of the Gay Rights movement in California was a Communist, as were the Reds who infiltrated British intelligence during and after WW II. J. Edgar Hoover was a fellow homosexual who constantly fed McCarthy information, of dubious nature, against his 'enemies'; this isn't a coincidence that can be ignored. 

Joseph McCarthy : Biography



> The list of names was not a secret and had been in fact published by the Secretary of State in 1946. These people had been identified during a preliminary screening of 3,000 federal employees. Some had been communists but others had been fascists, alcoholics and sexual deviants. As it happens, if McCarthy had been screened, his own drink problems and sexual preferences would have resulted in him being put on the list.
> 
> &#8230;
> 
> ...


Pic of McCarthy with the notorious homosexual Roy Cohn, one of his 'boys':






The Soviets urged him to leave the Democratic Party and join the Republican Party and help take it over, as they needed it as a secure front from which to undermine the U.S.; what better front for a Communist disinformation and government sabotage than controlling an 'Anti-Communist' media campaign, especially one that managed to never find a single real Soviet agent in its years of 'investigating' Communists in the U.S. Government, after all? 

McCarthy first came to national attention not for anti-communist speeches but pro-Nazi activities in support of white-washing the Malmedy massacres, urging the release of the Nazi responsible. This media campaign was in reality an anti-American propaganda campaign, operated by a 'neo-Nazi' lawyer who was in fact a Soviet agent provocateur; McCarthy was recruited to promote it here, at the behest of his Soviet controllers.

Joe Conason Reviews Ann Coulter's Treason



> But somehow she neglects to mention McCarthy's first moment in the national spotlight. That was his infamous 1949 campaign on behalf of Nazi S.S. officers who were convicted of war crimes for the massacre of American troops in the town of Malmedy during the Battle of the Bulge. On their orders, 83 American prisoners of war had been murdered by Waffen S.S. machine-gunners. The S.S. officers were sentenced to death, but McCarthy insisted that the entire case was a frame-up, with confessions obtained by horrific torture. He intervened in Senate hearings on the case and lied repeatedly during his defense of the Nazi murderers. His most spectacular claim was that the American investigators had crushed the testicles of German prisoners as an interrogation technique. McCarthy was later shown to have served as the pawn of neo-Nazi and communist provocateurs who were using the Malmedy case to whip up anti-American sentiment in postwar Germany. The main source for his false charges concerning Malmedy was a Germany lawyer named Rudolf Aschenauer, whose closest ties were to the postwar Nazi underground and to American right-wing isolationists, but who has also been identified as a communist agent. Aschenauer testified at U.S. Senate hearings in Germany that he had passed information about Malmedy to McCarthy. The S.S. officers were guilty, as the Senate report confirmed -- although most of them later got their death sentences commuted in a gesture to former Nazi officials who aided the West in the Cold War. But McCarthy had succeeded in his larger purpose, winning publicity for himself and casting a negative light on the war-crimes trials.
> 
> By Coulter's loose definition, his involvement in the Malmedy incident proves that McCarthy was a "traitor." He lied publicly to advance totalitarian forces in Europe against American interests. He sided with enemy forces against American soldiers. He falsely accused American officials of crimes. Moreover, he took up this tainted cause at least in part because of heavy financial support from an ultra-right-wing German-American businessman in Wisconsin. He managed to help both Nazis and communists at once, a feat rarely seen since the end of the Hitler-Stalin pact.


We can also note that the vast majority of  those McCarthy claimed to be 'communist spies' were in fact China hands, with whom the Soviets had a falling out and had a real interest in sabotaging any detente between Washington and Peking, particularly after their rift over the Korean War, instigated and then abandoned by the Soviets, which China considered a betrayal, especially since the Soviets refused to either contribute arms to what became a Chinese show and demanding payments in gold for Soviet weapons sold to China. This rift lasted for decades afterward, and almost led to a war between the Soviet Union and China several times. Very convenient, isn't it?

So, to sum up, Joe McCarthy was a homosexual Communist and Soviet agent who worked to paralyze and divide and subvert the U.S. Government and its people from within, and deflect attention away from real Soviet spy rings operating in the U.S. And prevent any U.S. foreign policy that would lead to rapprochement with a Soviet rival state in Asia. And now, neo-Communist agents are trying to revive his 'legacy'; recycle, rinse, and repeat; we can see the results in the current GOP support for ex-KGB agent and Communist Vladimir Putin by the 'right wing' today, and its support for 'trade with Red China'.

*All the above evidence of Joe McCarthy's working for the Soviets is according to the 'rules' of evidence used by McCarthyites themselves, and therefore valid by their own standards of proof,* so pay no attention to communist operatives like Frank and his fellow travellers as they try to resurrect this old Soviet disinformation campaign as put forth by their fellow Commie Ann Coulter and false flag sites like Free Republic and Town Hall, as well as their advocacy of subversive and destructive economic policies that are guaranteed to destroy the U.S. from within. The so-called 'right wingers' are in fact the real Communist conspiracy working to destroy America.


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## Camp (Mar 17, 2014)

bripat9643 said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



No one wants to take your bait. It is obvious that you will use your own convenient interpretation and definitions for words like "innocent" and "ruined". All the people accused by McCarthy were technically innocent because non of them was convicted of being communist spys or agents. Not a single one. But McCarthites defend him by pointing out various testimonies and documents that "prove" McCarthy was right. They conveniently ignore the ultra all American constitutional concept that people are innocent until proven quilty. And what is "ruined"? Who decides what level of damage must be done to ones reputation to determine if it is in any way "ruined". Why should any person have the mark of suspicion placed on them by a powerful Senator who may decide to abuse his power for political gain.

Gen. Ralph Zwicker was a highly decorated WWII war hero who happened to have been the commander of an officier that was an Army dentist by the name of Irving Peress. Maj. Peress became a primary target of McCarthy for his "communist activities".  The Major was a stateside Dentist performing his duties of taking care of soldiers teeth in New Jersey. Unfortunately for the Major, he had refused to answer some questions about his past affiliations on some Army applications. McCarthy had learned about the officiers refusal. The Army was OK with it, happy to have a good Dentist and not the least bit concerned about who he had affiliated with in his youth or while in college. Nor did they seem concerned that the Major might be tempted to give dental secrets to Stalin.

Maj. Peress's commanding officier was required to testify at Sen. McCarthy's hearing and explain how he had allowed this communist infiltrator, in the form of a dentist to, infiltrate his command. So the battle hardened Gen, Zwicker, with two Silver Stars on his chest, was forced sit in front of McCarthy and politely take his abuse and listen to McCarthy's accusations and insults.
The General gave Maj. Peress an honorable discharge and the dispicable show put on by McCathy as he abused this hero of WWII  on live TV turned out to be more than the country was willing to tolerate. It was the beginning of the McCarthy take down. It was the turning point when even his supporters and friends turned against him. His fall and finish as a lonely drunken dispised looser is now history. Some of the country had accepted his ill treatment of actors, writers, artist and even government beauracrats to some degree, but when he applied his tricks to veterans, active military and war heroes his crap came to an end.


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## Picaro (Mar 17, 2014)

bripat9643 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > "When discussing McCarthy himself, the only people who are relevant are" everyone tainted by suspicion and innuendo and slander.
> ...



Communist agents will always lie, especially those operating under false flags and claiming to be 'anti-communists', so we can't take your posts as credible or truthful.


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## Picaro (Mar 17, 2014)

Camp said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Wry Catcher said:
> ...



Yes. An excellent way to lower morale and readiness is to undermine military health care for troops; sowing disinformation and generating paranoia about dentists would be on the commie agenda; McCarthy was well trained by Moscow.


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## bripat9643 (Mar 17, 2014)

Picaro said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



Your theory that McCarthy was a communist agent is charming.


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## Camp (Mar 17, 2014)

bripat9643 said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



Makes more sense than the generic propaganda you put out. At least it offers a different area and idea to consider.


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 17, 2014)

Luddly Neddite said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



I remember when Democrats used to at least pretend they were against Communism


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 17, 2014)

Wry Catcher said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Wry Catcher said:
> ...



So why can't you give us a single name, Freddo?

Zero Mostel?

Come on, someone, anyone!


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## TooTall (Mar 17, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> Mojo2 said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...



Why would a *Senator* be yelling "point of order" to the chairman of the* House* un-American committee?


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## bripat9643 (Mar 17, 2014)

Camp said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Wry Catcher said:
> ...



One thing everyone following this debate needs to understand is that the government doesn't require proof "beyond a reasonable doubt" to fire someone who is a security risk.  Anyone who has ever applied for a security clearance knows that even suspicion of questionable activities can get you canned.  I know a number of people who have security clearances, and they break out into a cold sweat if you even start discussing certain subjects, like anything that might be illegal.  they can lose their security clearances and their jobs simply by failing a polygraph test where the question asked was "have you discussed illegal activities with any friends or associates?"

The legal standards for a court trial don't apply to maintaining employment in sensitive government positions.  Fellow travelers like you have capitalized on the fact that the public doesn't understand such realities.  The so-called "victims" were "innocent" only according to a standard that isn't relevant.   Scumbags who want to destroy the United States take advantage of this ignorance to damage U.S security and those who work to preserve it.



Camp said:


> Gen. Ralph Zwicker was a highly decorated WWII war hero who happened to have been the commander of an officier that was an Army dentist by the name of Irving Peress. Maj. Peress became a primary target of McCarthy for his "communist activities".  The Major was a stateside Dentist performing his duties of taking care of soldiers teeth in New Jersey. Unfortunately for the Major, he had refused to answer some questions about his past affiliations on some Army applications. McCarthy had learned about the officiers refusal. The Army was OK with it, happy to have a good Dentist and not the least bit concerned about who he had affiliated with in his youth or while in college. Nor did they seem concerned that the Major might be tempted to give dental secrets to Stalin.
> 
> Maj. Peress's commanding officier was required to testify at Sen. McCarthy's hearing and explain how he had allowed this communist infiltrator, in the form of a dentist to, infiltrate his command. So the battle hardened Gen, Zwicker, with two Silver Stars on his chest, was forced sit in front of McCarthy and politely take his abuse and listen to McCarthy's accusations and insults.
> The General gave Maj. Peress an honorable discharge and the dispicable show put on by McCathy as he abused this hero of WWII  on live TV turned out to be more than the country was willing to tolerate. It was the beginning of the McCarthy take down. It was the turning point when even his supporters and friends turned against him. His fall and finish as a lonely drunken dispised looser is now history. Some of the country had accepted his ill treatment of actors, writers, artist and even government beauracrats to some degree, but when he applied his tricks to veterans, active military and war heroes his crap came to an end.



I agree with Ann Coulter


> McCarthy was castigated for attacking General Ralph Zwicker who was portrayed by the media and the liberals as a staunch and honest army officer. But in testimony before the McClellan Committee on March 23, 1955, Zwicker denied giving McCarthy aide George Anastos derogatory information about Irving Peress, &#8211; who McCarthy charged had been promoted despite the fact he was a communist &#8211; in their telephone conversation of January 22, 1954.
> 
> When Anastos and the secretary who had monitored the conversation both testified under oath and contradicted Zwicker, the McClellan Committee forwarded the transcript of the hearing to the Justice Department for possible prosecution of Zwicker for perjury.
> 
> ...



Your claim that "the army was OK with it" is pure bullshit.  In the first place, the army doesn't get to make that decision.  There are regulations about the kinds of outside activities that are allowed to officers in the military.  Being a member of the communist party isn't one that is allowed.

President Eisenhower, the Republican all you fellow travelers hold up as an example for the rest of us, signed executive order 10450, which states plainly that should extensive investigations reveal that if any questions existed concerning the fitness of a government employee from the standpoint of national security, that person should be discharged.  Gen. Zwicker failed to do his duty, and then he lied about it to Congress.

Gen. Zwicker wasn't innocent and neither was Irving Peress.


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 17, 2014)

TooTall said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > Mojo2 said:
> ...



Liberal response:

Er, McCarthyism! My uncle was a Hollywood writer and he was blacklisted by McCarthy!

Progressives are the biggest liars on the planet and they've been spreading the McCarthy lies for 3 generation now


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 17, 2014)

List of Innocent People who were named by McCarthy:

End of list


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## Howey (Mar 17, 2014)

bripat9643 said:


> Yep, incredibly moronic.



Yes. They both were. As are you.



CrusaderFrank said:


> List of Innocent People who were named by McCarthy:
> 
> End of list



Liar.

McCarthy charges communists are in the CIA ? History.com This Day in History ? 6/2/1954



> Senator Joseph McCarthy charges that communists have infiltrated the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the atomic weapons industry. Although McCarthy's accusations created a momentary controversy, *they were quickly dismissed as mere sensationalism from a man whose career was rapidly slipping away*.
> 
> Senator McCarthy first made a name for himself in 1950 when he charged that over 200 "known communists" were in the Department of State. During the next few years, he alleged that communists were in nearly every branch of the U.S. government. His reckless accusations helped to create what came to be known as the Red Scare, a time when Americans feared that communists were infiltrating all aspects of American government and life. *Despite the fact that McCarthy never managed to unearth a single communist, his ability to whip up public hysteria and smear opponents as communist sympathizers made him front-page news for several years*. By 1954, however, his power was slipping. His earlier charges had been leveled at the Democratic administration of President Harry S. Truman, and Republicans had embraced McCarthy as a useful weapon. *When Republican Dwight D. Eisenhower stepped into the presidency in 1953, however, McCarthy's wild accusations became a nuisance and source of embarrassment to the Republican Party.*
> 
> ...



Re: Bolded parts. Looks like I was absolutely right to compare McCarthy with Issa, huh?


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## Camp (Mar 17, 2014)

TooTall said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > Mojo2 said:
> ...



Because it was a movie and the part that portrayed McCarthy was made a Representative instead of a Senator.


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## TooTall (Mar 17, 2014)

Howey said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > 60 Years Ago, Edward R. Murrow Took Down Joseph McCarthy
> ...



No comparison whatsoever.  Issa is doing the oversight that is the sworn duty of members of Congress.  McCarthy was naming enemies of the United States who believed in the violent overthrow of our system of government.

That part of "both foreign and domestic" in the Constitution.


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## TooTall (Mar 17, 2014)

Camp said:


> TooTall said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...



What other outright nonsense did Hollywood put in the movie to poison the well against McCarthy?


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## Howey (Mar 17, 2014)

TooTall said:


> Howey said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...



Issa's Enemy List


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## Camp (Mar 17, 2014)

CrusaderFrank said:


> List of Innocent People who were named by McCarthy:
> 
> End of list



I named two. Gen. Zwicker and Maj. Peress. The ridiculous response I got in return was that the Gen. was a liar because a McCarthy aide claimed he lied in a phone conversation and the aide could prove it because his secretary heard the General lie too. The allegation was mocked and the request for a perjury charge be made against Zwicker was ignored.

Other evidence was that Sen. Goldwater, a friend of McCarthy, wrote a book. A conversation was mentioned in the book that another Senator told a story about having been told by some other Senators that some folks believed the story and that that was the cause of some specific action being taken against or for the Army to protect it from Gen. Zwicker and the communist at some specific New Jersey base. Oh ya, the base that got moved to Sen. Goldwater's state, Arizona. It had to be moved there because of the commie's and their influence over Gen. Zwicker the war hero. Please do better Frank. At least make your response interesting and a little believable.

Think you mentioned Owen Lattimore and Lauchin Currie awhile back. Were either one of them ever convicted of being spys or communist agents or do those cases come under the heresay, maybe, hey we believe it kind of categories? Those should be easy ones since a confession, albiet questionable, and the Verona papers should be of assistance.

And what was that Overseas Library Program that got over 30,000 books taken off library shelves all about? Did any of the authors of those books suffer from being accused of writing communist books and being "fellow travelers"? Probably didn't have much effect on Henry David Thoreau's CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE since it had been on the shelves for over a hundred years already by the time McCarthy decided it promoted communism.


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 17, 2014)

Howey said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Yep, incredibly moronic.
> ...



The Rosenberg's vindicate McCarthy on our nuclear program being penetrated, sockgirl

Also the person Welch was defending with his "no decency" hysteria turns out to have been a Commie

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk


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## bripat9643 (Mar 17, 2014)

Camp said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > List of Innocent People who were named by McCarthy:
> ...



So two witnesses testified that they heard General Zwicker make statements that contradicted his testimony before Congress, and we are not supposed to accept it as evidence?  Many people have gone to prison on less evidence than that. If two witnesses said they heard Skooter Libby revealing Valery Plames identity to the press, would you mock that?  Of course you wouldn't.  You'd engage in the usual libturd sanctimonious outrage,. and accuse Libby of being a traitor just like all the other leftwing hypocrites did.



Camp said:


> Other evidence was that Sen. Goldwater, a friend of McCarthy, wrote a book. A conversation was mentioned in the book that another Senator told a story about having been told by some other Senators that some folks believed the story and that that was the cause of some specific action being taken against or for the Army to protect it from Gen. Zwicker and the communist at some specific New Jersey base. Oh ya, the base that got moved to Sen. Goldwater's state, Arizona. It had to be moved there because of the commie's and their influence over Gen. Zwicker the war hero. Please do better Frank. At least make your response interesting and a little believable.



Huh?



Camp said:


> Think you mentioned Owen Lattimore and Lauchin Currie awhile back. Were either one of them ever convicted of being spys or communist agents or do those cases come under the heresay, maybe, hey we believe it kind of categories? Those should be easy ones since a confession, albiet questionable, and the Verona papers should be of assistance.



Lattimore may not have been a member of the Communist party, but he was certainly a fellow traveler who did everything in his power to assist the Communist regime of Joseph Stalin and to help Mao Tse Tung prevail in China.  He was a traitor.   You can read all about him and his subversive activities here:

FrontPage Magazine - Reviving Owen Lattimore's Slander

Lauchlin Currie's is mentioned in the Venona papers, and the evidence against him is even more incriminating.  You can read some of it here:

H-Net Discussion Networks - Venona and Lauchlin Currie [Haynes/Klehr]

Currie and Lattimore are the worst of the worst.  The evidence against them is massive.  Anyone who would defend these two has to be a fellow traveler.



Camp said:


> And what was that Overseas Library Program that got over 30,000 books taken off library shelves all about? Did any of the authors of those books suffer from being accused of writing communist books and being "fellow travelers"? Probably didn't have much effect on Henry David Thoreau's CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE since it had been on the shelves for over a hundred years already by the time McCarthy decided it promoted communism.



The Overseas Library Program was a government program.  The books were purchased by the US government.  The government is free to choose which books it purchases and stocks on its shelves and which books it doesn't.  Apparently your idea of "suffering" is for the government not to patronize your wares.   We're all "suffering" if that's the case.  The government didn't take any books "off the shelves" other than its own.  Your attempt to insinuate censorship of some kind is dishonest and contemptible.


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## bripat9643 (Mar 18, 2014)

Howey said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Yep, incredibly moronic.
> ...



Your claim that he never unearthed a single communist is clearly false.


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## bripat9643 (Mar 18, 2014)

Camp said:


> TooTall said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...



Yep, it was a movie.  That means it was fiction.  It proves exactly nothing.


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## bripat9643 (Mar 19, 2014)

It appears all the forum fellow travelers have run away from this discussion.

I win.


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## natstew (Mar 19, 2014)

bripat9643 said:


> It appears all the forum fellow travelers have run away from this discussion.
> 
> I win.



Not so fast, I'm still here. I have a life away from my PC so I'm absent here a lot, but I haven't quit.

BTW, I think we're on the same side, so maybe it should be, WE WIN!!


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## bripat9643 (Mar 19, 2014)

natstew said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > It appears all the forum fellow travelers have run away from this discussion.
> ...



It's too bad because I was having fun serving them a big can of whoop-ass.

One thing you have to note about the McCarthy haters is that their standard of "innocent" is "not convicted of espionage."  If that was the standard for kicking someone out of a sensitive government position, we would have lost the cold war a long time ago.  These numskulls actually believe a member of the Communist party should have access to secret information.


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 19, 2014)

Hey remember when McCarthys House Unamerican Activities Committee blacklisted Zero Mostel

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk


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## bripat9643 (Mar 19, 2014)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Hey remember when McCarthys House Unamerican Activities Committee blacklisted Zero Mostel
> 
> Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk



No, I don't remember that, but I'll bet Camp and other fellow travelers do.


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## Camp (Mar 20, 2014)

bripat9643 said:


> It appears all the forum fellow travelers have run away from this discussion.
> 
> I win.



You are boring because you don't have the slightest grasp or concept of what the debate is about. You simply don't know what Macarthyism is about. You don't recognize what the issue's are and thus, you maintian the discussion on a juvenile level. It seems to be beyond your intellectual ability to recognize the issue's that are the basis of the historical impact and lessons of the McCarthy era. Your debate points, questions and ideas were used and addressed over fifty years ago. Those issue's have been addressed in this thread repeatedly, but you either don't see them, refuse to aknowdledge them or just enjoy playing stupid.
Your posting are actually the best negative critiques of McCarthyism. You adhere to some of his methods. Your use of the method of bearing false witness is one of the basic prinicples of McCarthyism.


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## Camp (Mar 20, 2014)

bripat9643 said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Hey remember when McCarthys House Unamerican Activities Committee blacklisted Zero Mostel
> ...



See, like this example. You keep calling people fellow travelers. You looked the word up and discovered it meant a communist or communist supporter. So, like McCarthy, you call folks who disagree with you, or have different viewpoints "fellow travelers". The people who challange your views need to be demonized by accusing them of being communist. It's a form of "bearing false witness".

While doing that, you take the anti-American stance that anyone with even the slightest leaning towards the left does not have the right to their opinion. You make your anti-American action of denying free thought and speech indicate that the person enjoying constitutional rights is the anti-American demon. You are attempting to use old tricks that were exsposed as tricks before you were born. McCarthy didn't invent them, but McCarthy exposed those tricks to the mass's of American's. He educated the public about demonization and ethical corruption when the public got fed up with his immoral charactor.

Basicly he took what was created in the House by HUAC and Martin Dies and brought it to the Senate. This is why he gets blamed for lots that he was not actually responsible for. Things like the Hollywood blacklist. His defenders use this confusion to offer excuses for his overall dispicable nature. The greatest generation wasn't big on excuses. McCarthy tried fucking with the greatest generation, includeing some of it's heroes. He got caught and got sent packing. The nation told him to fuck off.

So keep calling folks fellow travelers. Continue to accuse folks of being communist whenever you find yourself lacking in debating skills or knowledge. Bearing false witness is a wonderful method of covert dishonesty. It works great on folks who lack critical thinking skills.


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 20, 2014)

Camp said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > CrusaderFrank said:
> ...



McCarthy's Biggest Mistake was woefully underestimating the extent to which the White House, State Dept, American Media and Democrat Party had been taken over by Communists


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## Camp (Mar 20, 2014)

Don't leave out the Republicans Frank. 60 years and 11 days ago Republican Senators and the Republican President turned on McCarthy and called him out on his nonsense and anti-American bullshit.  March 9, 1954 is the exact day the Republicans came out publicly attacked and rejected Tail Gunner Joe.


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## guno (Mar 20, 2014)

BDBoop said:


> 60 Years Ago, Edward R. Murrow Took Down Joseph McCarthy
> 
> Murrow on McCarthy, no fear, 1954 - YouTube
> 
> ...



I remember it and him and watching the The ArmyMcCarthy hearings on TV at the time , he was a drunk who had serve physiological issues who was finally brought down and  faded into history .  On December 2, 1954, the Senate voted 6722 to censure McCarthy, effectively eradicating his influence. He was and is an embarrassment to American history.


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## Camp (Mar 20, 2014)

The nails were put into the McCarthy coffin on December 2, 1954

HEADLINES - NEW YORK TIMES DEC. 2, 1954

"FINAL VOTE CONDEMNS McCARTHY, 67-22 FOR ABUSING  SENATE AND COMMITTEE:
ZWICKER COUNT ELIMINATED IN DEBATE"

Half the Senate Republicans, 22 of them voted to condemn McCarthy. 51 votes could not have been achieved without Republican votes.

"Senate votes to condemn Sen. McCarthy for contempt....for abuse of it's members and insults to the Senate...."   New York Times  Dec. 2, 1954


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 20, 2014)

McCarthy was a political Galileo. He was years ahead of his time and clearly saw and accurately described how the FDR White House orbited around Josef Stalin

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk


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## Mushroom (Apr 4, 2014)

Picaro said:


> McCarthy and HUAC both were detestable, not to mention none of them turned up any commie in important positions anywhere.



I am going to give a more full response later, but I just had to respond to this one.

And you simply have to look at Venona, the Gorsky Memo, statements by Elizabeth Bentley, and the Vassiliev Notes.

Gerald and Stanley Graze, named by both McCarthy and Gorsky.
Franz Neumann, named by McCarthy and Vassiliev.
Robert Miller, named by McCarthy and Bentley.
William Remmington, named by McCarthy and Bentley.
David Zablodgwskeim, named by McCarthy, and admitted to being the courier for Whittaker Chambers.
Mary Keeney, identified by McCarthy and Venona.
John Service, identified by McCarthy and the FBI.
David Karr, identified by McCarthy and Venona.
Lauchlin Currie, identified by McCarthy, Venona, and Bentley.
Harold Glasser, identified by McCarthy, Venona and Bentley.

And this is not even a complete rundown of comparisons.  But when this many people are identified by multiple sources (some even caught in the act), it is impossible to take serious a claim none of them turned up anything anywhere.


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## Vandalshandle (Apr 4, 2014)

One of his assistants was quoted some time after McCarthy's fall that when he made his first speech in which he claimed to holding in his hand a list of 205 communists in the State Department, it was actually a laundry list.


http://www.finfacts.com/news/senatorjosephmccarthy.htm


Fortunately for all of us, he drank himself to death.


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## CrusaderFrank (Apr 4, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> One of his assistants was quoted some time after McCarthy's fall that when he made his first speech in which he claimed to holding in his hand a list of 205 communists in the State Department, it was actually a laundry list.
> 
> 
> Senator Joseph McCarthy Irish American Demagogue Irish America's Shame; Joe, Fiftieth Anniversary, Welch, Murrow, Kennedy, Communists, Gays, Homosexuals,-Finfacts Ireland
> ...



Thankfully FDR died before he could give away even more of the world to his Communist Puppet Masters


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## Vandalshandle (Apr 5, 2014)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > One of his assistants was quoted some time after McCarthy's fall that when he made his first speech in which he claimed to holding in his hand a list of 205 communists in the State Department, it was actually a laundry list.
> ...



Ignorance of real history is no excuse for dumb posts.


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## JakeStarkey (Apr 5, 2014)

True Americans have no fear of the far right reactionary wing nuts political and religious or the libertarians or the anarchists.  

No fear, you hear


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## Mushroom (Apr 5, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> Fortunately for all of us, he drank himself to death.
> 
> Ignorance of real history is no excuse for dumb posts.



Yes, and I fully agree with you there.

Which is why it is important to correct you that Senator McCarthy did *not* "drink himself to death".  He died of hepatitis.


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## JakeStarkey (Apr 5, 2014)

Picaro said:


> McCarthy and HUAC both were detestable, not to mention none of them turned up any commie in important positions anywhere.
> 
> I'm sure most people don't know that those wonderful Brothers Kennedy were 110% behind ole Joe, and just couldn't suck themselves enough Joe Mc ass. The Johnson/Kennedy hate fest was in no small part because of Johnson's loathing of McCarthy.
> 
> ...



Don't downplay Murrow, podjo, at all.  You will be wrong if you do.

You got it right about Bobby Kennedy, but not John.


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## JakeStarkey (Apr 5, 2014)

CrusaderFrank said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > TakeAStepBack said:
> ...



^ No info libertarian know nothing


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## CrusaderFrank (Apr 5, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...



FDR backed history's two biggest mass murderers: Mao and "Uncle" Joe Stalin. They murdered about 100 million people between the two of them.

Mao got US backing because the Communist running our State Dept told FDR that Mao was "Democratic" and "Progressive" and they were right.

The USSR got Eastern Europe because the Communists in the WH and State thought it was a good idea.

As I said, Joe McCarthy noticed that the Democrat White House under FDR and Truman were Soviet satellites doing the bidding of the Communists and he was a little shy about saying so.

The USSR tried to start WWIII in 1949, the ChiComs were killing US troops in Korea in 1950 and between the 2 events Joe McCarthy made his first speech which only scratched the surface of Democrat subservience to the wishes of the Communists -- and for that they say he started a "Red Scare" 

McCarthy is with the Angels, FDR is in Satan's mouth with the other fucking traitors to their country and principles


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## JakeStarkey (Apr 5, 2014)

This "FDR backed history's two biggest mass murderers: Mao and "Uncle" Joe Stalin. They murdered about 100 million people between the two of them" ignores that the rest of the 'free' world, including UK and France and Poland, did the same.

See an idea (FDR loved Stalin) is not automatically a fact.


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## CrusaderFrank (Apr 5, 2014)

JakeStarkey said:


> This "FDR backed history's two biggest mass murderers: Mao and "Uncle" Joe Stalin. They murdered about 100 million people between the two of them" ignores that the rest of the 'free' world, including UK and France and Poland, did the same.
> 
> See an idea (FDR loved Stalin) is not automatically a fact.



I'm not saying FDR loved him, merely that he did Stalin's bidding; does every housemaid have to love their Master?

Also, who was looking to Poland for World Leadership during and after WWII?


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## Mushroom (Apr 6, 2014)

JakeStarkey said:


> You got it right about Bobby Kennedy, but not John.



Actually, he has it right.

Both Senators JFK and Nixon were strong supporters of Senator McCarthy (as was Joe Kennedy Sr), and this was one of the main reasons why Robert Kennedy got the job on the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations.

But please, surely you can provide some proof to back up your claims.


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## whitehall (Apr 7, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> Mojo2 said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...



It was a great movie and Sinatra was at his acting best. The problem was that Hollywood had to tread a fine line. On one hand they admitted that Communism was the enemy of democracy but they had to pretend that the McCarthy character was really a Communist dupe. It didn't work in that respect but the low information Americans bought the plot.


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## regent (Apr 8, 2014)

The Republican party must be proud and indebted to Senator McCarthy for his contributions to the America and the Republican party. Did the Republican party erect any monuments to McCarthy?


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## Mushroom (Apr 8, 2014)

regent said:


> The Republican party must be proud and indebted to Senator McCarthy for his contributions to the America and the Republican party. Did the Republican party erect any monuments to McCarthy?



Yes.

It stands right next to the HUAC, which was controlled by the Democrats.


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## whitehall (Apr 8, 2014)

regent said:


> The Republican party must be proud and indebted to Senator McCarthy for his contributions to the America and the Republican party. Did the Republican party erect any monuments to McCarthy?



Why would the republican party erect a monument to McCarthy? He wasn't even a committee chairman. The low information pop-culture educated left seems way too fixated in senator McCarthy when democrats were in power and freaking "give 'em hell" Harry Truman who created HUAC was president.


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## Mushroom (Apr 8, 2014)

whitehall said:


> Why would the republican party erect a monument to McCarthy? He wasn't even a committee chairman. The low information pop-culture educated left seems way too fixated in senator McCarthy when democrats were in power and freaking "give 'em hell" Harry Truman who created HUAC was president.



Actually, he was the Chair of the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations.

And it still exists to this day, with Democrat Carl Levin as Chair.


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## CrusaderFrank (Apr 8, 2014)

regent said:


> The Republican party must be proud and indebted to Senator McCarthy for his contributions to the America and the Republican party. Did the Republican party erect any monuments to McCarthy?



He exposed the FDR White House as being a Soviet Satellite; so yeah, he's good


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## JakeStarkey (Apr 8, 2014)

Mushroom said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > You got it right about Bobby Kennedy, but not John.
> ...



You were the one who made the claim about John and you can't back it up.  Straight fact.  There is no question that Bobby later repented of associating with the slime.


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## JakeStarkey (Apr 8, 2014)

CrusaderFrank said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > This "FDR backed history's two biggest mass murderers: Mao and "Uncle" Joe Stalin. They murdered about 100 million people between the two of them" ignores that the rest of the 'free' world, including UK and France and Poland, did the same.
> ...



Deflection will not work, CF; it never has for you.

No one did Stalin's bidding.  The rest of the free world, which you ignored, supported the USSR, UK, and USA.

Why you, like Political Chic, would want FDR to ally with Hitler rather than Stalin is absolutely insane.


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## CrusaderFrank (Apr 8, 2014)

JakeStarkey said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



FDR did Stalin's bidding. He might not have realized it. But that's what happened. He listened to Stalin's guys so there's no real difference


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## Mushroom (Apr 9, 2014)

JakeStarkey said:


> You were the one who made the claim about John and you can't back it up.  Straight fact.  There is no question that Bobby later repented of associating with the slime.





> There were also other deep personal bonds between JFK and McCarthy by the time McCarthy reached the peak of his power in 1952 and 1953. Not only had McCarthy been a frequent guest at the Kennedy compound in Hyannis, but McCarthy had also dated two Kenendy sisters, first Eunice (the mother of Maria Shriver) and then Pat (who later married actor Peter Lawford). McCarthy was invited to the wedding reception for Eunice and Sargent Shriver, and even presented Eunice with a silver cigarette case inscribed "To Eunice and Bob from one who lost."
> 
> The ties with Bobby were forged when he gave RFK a job as minority counsel to his Senate committee investigating domestic communism. Though RFK would later have an intense falling out with McCarthy's other counsel Roy Cohn, the younger Kennedy brother would maintain a deep loyalty to a man he loved enough to make the godfather of his first child. In 1955, Bobby displayed his residual feelings of loyalty for McCarthy even after the Senator's fall into disgrace at a dinner meeting described by the court historian of Camelot himself, Arthur Schlesinger, Jr.
> 
> ...


The Kennedys and McCarthyism

I encourage you to read the book referenced in the above, "Kennedy and Nixon:The Rivalry that Shaped Postwar America" by Chris Matthews.  A fascinating book, that shows sides of both men that few suspect.

I also find it ironic that after Chris Matthews became a political hack, he made a statement that "JFK would never support Richard Nixon".  He appeared on the Bill O'Riley show, and then Bill proceeded to tear apart his claim from his own writings (including the statement that JFK would have campaigned for Nixon if he had lost his party's nomination).  Poor Chris could not believe he was being refuted by his own book, it was classic.


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