# Is It Wrong to Think Homosexuality is a Sin?



## Bonzi (Aug 25, 2017)

What do you think?

If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?


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## TNHarley (Aug 25, 2017)

Being gay is fine. I mean, really, who cares? It doesnt effect anyone except for that person and who he/she chooses to be with
You can think of it in any way you want. Being wrong or "sinful" is completely subjective. 
Voice it if you want!


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## Votto (Aug 25, 2017)

Hater!  Bigot!  Sadist!  Homophobe!  Misogynist!   Racist!   Hoodwinker!   Cheapskate! 

I'm running out of name calling terms.

Anyone?

Where is my safe zone?


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## Votto (Aug 25, 2017)

TNHarley said:


> Being gay is fine. I mean, really, who cares? It doesnt effect anyone except for that person and who he/she chooses to be with
> You can think of it in any way you want. Being wrong or "sinful" is completely subjective.
> Voice it if you want!



Gay men in the US account for under 10% of the population, yet they account for well over half off all AIDS and STD cases in the US.  This is a fact supported by the CDC.

However, even though the economic costs to society Dims will never see this as a reason to not encourage such behavior as "normal" and "good".

Meanwhile, they will ban soda drinks in New York cuz they are not healthy and seaways in San Fran cuz they want people to exercise so they will be healthier.

It's all part of the Dim brain rot.


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## ZZ PUPPS (Aug 25, 2017)

Absolutely.  The same as it is to think and say the exact opposite.


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## RodISHI (Aug 25, 2017)

People need to be left alone to make their own choices in the matter. If they sin or are an abomination in the lord's sight that is between their god(s) and themselves. To attempt to force others find it acceptable is as bad as trying to get someone else to accept that drug addiction, alcoholism, prostitution and all the other traps that humans can fall into is good for you and all fine and dandy.

I think the open sexual society in your face shit is disgusting regardless of who is doing it.


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## Ringel05 (Aug 25, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
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> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?


If it's a sin then it is but I'm too focused on the log in my eye to worry about the splinter in someone else's........... 
Except when I'm dealing with hacks, conspiracy nutjobs and racists........


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## Pogo (Aug 25, 2017)

TNHarley said:


> Being gay is fine. I mean, really, who cares? It doesnt effect anyone except for that person and who he/she chooses to be with
> You can think of it in any way you want. Being wrong or "sinful" is completely subjective.
> Voice it if you want!





I believe it goes something like, "judge not, lest ye be judged".

We choose and discipline our own personal behavior.  The moment we start exporting that to choosing and controlling other people's behavior, the sinkhole yawns.  And there's the pitfall of preachy punitive-style religion.


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## Rambunctious (Aug 25, 2017)

Loving another human being is normal and fine. It's what the heavens want most for us. But when sex enters the picture that is where the problem starts. The good book states sex after marriage between one man and one women in the eyes of God is the preferred way of life. Beyond that it's up to us all to choose our own path in life.
The sin, the really big sin in my opinion is using homosexuality as a political club to divide the population...that is a real sin.


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## RodISHI (Aug 25, 2017)

Pogo said:


> TNHarley said:
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It also goes like this, '*a spiritual man judges all things*'. That is because the 'spiritual human' is aware that people in judgment are subjecting themselves to the ills of the worldly things.


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## BreezeWood (Aug 25, 2017)

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Votto said:


> Gay men in the US account for under 10% of the population, yet they account for well over half off all AIDS and STD cases in the US. This is a fact supported by the CDC.



strange how priest went for little boys, for centuries with little concern that certainly is a crime again for that awful religion, christianity - speaking of AID's - - so according to Votto it was ok because AID'S is a recent phenom .... the priest's were holy.


not my choice but for consenting Adults the issue is simply their freedom to chose.


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## Syriusly (Aug 25, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
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> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?



That is actually an interesting question. 

But lets look at it is a broader way- rather than just choose 'homosexuality'- lets add a few more to provide context to the concept of 'sin'.

Is it wrong to think that women wearing pants is a sin?
Is it wrong to think that eating pork is a sin?
Is it wrong to think that women driving cars is a sin?
Is it wrong to think that working on a Saturday is a sin?
Is it wrong to think that black and whites marrying each other is a sin?
Is it wrong to think that people who marry after divorce is a sin?

There are lots of things that various religions consider sins. Do we condemn those who believe those things? Do we condemn those who insist that everyone else not be/do what they consider sinful?

I really don't have an easy answer to it- other than as long as you don't try to pass laws to enforce your ideas of what is 'sinful' I really don't care much.


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## Syriusly (Aug 25, 2017)

Votto said:


> TNHarley said:
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Christian Conservatives passed laws to imprison gays long before there was AIDs and when the deadly STD of the day was syphillis- which was rampant among straight men. 

And of course, you and your fellow travellers would just as happily imprison lesbians- regardless of their levels of AIDs and STDS.


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## Syriusly (Aug 25, 2017)

BreezeWood said:


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Just to clarify- priests have been guilty of raping both boys and girls.


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## Rocko (Aug 25, 2017)

Pogo said:


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The thought police chimes in


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## ZZ PUPPS (Aug 25, 2017)

Syriusly said:


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As have, homos...


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## Syriusly (Aug 25, 2017)

ZZ PUPPS said:


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As have heteros....

Essentially the persons who rape kids are men.


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## ZZ PUPPS (Aug 25, 2017)

Syriusly said:


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What about those hot to trot teachers that just gotta have some of Tyrone's tool?


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## Pogo (Aug 25, 2017)

Rocko said:


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I wouldn't characterize the OP as "thought police".  She asked an open question, and kept it sparklingly neutral.


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## Rocko (Aug 25, 2017)

Pogo said:


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## Bonzi (Aug 25, 2017)

TNHarley said:


> Being gay is fine. I mean, really, who cares? It doesnt effect anyone except for that person and who he/she chooses to be with
> You can think of it in any way you want. Being wrong or "sinful" is completely subjective.
> Voice it if you want!


Do you view it in bad taste to wave a hetero flag?


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## Bonzi (Aug 25, 2017)

Pogo said:


> TNHarley said:
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For Christians, it should not be about judging as much as caring about your fellow man, and, for a Christian that would be shown by sharing the Gospel


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## Votto (Aug 25, 2017)

BreezeWood said:


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Wait.........wut?

Who said anything about priests?

How did the leftist Pope who is pushing for bigger government and less walls get into this conversation?


According to the rubes in the Catholic church, gay sex and abortion never gets talked about even though abortion is considered murder according to their doctrine and gay sex is an abomination to God.  Instead, building walls will send you straight to hell.

Hilarious.

And no, none of them represent Jesus.  If Jesus were here today he would not give sermons on the evils of global warming and the virtue of big government to solve all our problems, nor would he be abusing children.

Thanks for that.


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## Votto (Aug 25, 2017)

Syriusly said:


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And your point is?

Why did you leave out the Salem witch trials and Crusades?

WTH is wrong with you?

Jesus never advocated about locking anyone up, neither did he condemn anyone except the religious leaders of his day.  Neither did he advocate for government to save us all.

As for the Catholic church...............well.


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## Syriusly (Aug 25, 2017)

Votto said:


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Nothing. 

I am not the one who is upset about homosexuals- that would be you.


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## PredFan (Aug 25, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
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> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?



Define "wrong " do you mean morally wrong or factually wrong.


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## Syriusly (Aug 25, 2017)

Votto said:


> Jesus never advocated about locking anyone up, neither did he condemn anyone except the religious leaders of his day.  Neither did he advocate for government to save us all..



Yep- Jesus never once condemned homosexuality.


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## emilynghiem (Aug 25, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?



Dear Bonzi: Technically since all views for or against homosexuality are faith based beliefs, they should all be respected and included equally under religious freedom. it's just govt and public policy that should never be abused to establish or prohibit any of these coming from either side or direction of reasoning.

if we look at all the studies and quit skewing the research to suit agenda,
the results will show some people are naturally homosexual where there is nothing they are doing wrong causing this; while others who do report they feel something is wrong and this is unnatural, are able to go through healing therapy to resolve the conflicts, and some change while others do not.  Whatever "sin" is involved can be addressed and resolved. But this doesn't mean the person will always change.

From my understanding that includes people of diverse experiences from one extreme to the other, the causes of many of these issues are karmic: some involve issues from previous generations (what Christians call generational sins while Buddhists call this past life karma) and some involve abuses or conflicts from this life.  The point is to  heal these issues, so the cycle of sin or suffering is broken and the person is set free.

What Christians end up learning is that not all people who receive healing prayer change, but some remain homosexual or even come out transgender after healing.

What secular and LGBT supporters end up learning is some people DO change after living and identifying fully as homosexual.  They aren't lying either.

so both sides have much to learn as to why the others hold their beliefs.
There are both cases that are natural or unnatural, changeable or unchangeable.

The common good that can come of this is healing people and relations, regardless of the cause and of the effect or result.  

if we agree to overcome the sin of unforgiveness, the rest will follow.
We cannot predict or dictate right or wrong in all cases which are not the same,
but we can make the choice to forgive and correct mutual misperceptions of intent.
And start the healing process that can change hearts and minds
instead of being "separated by sin."


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## Darkwind (Aug 25, 2017)

Why is it no one is actually addressing what she really asked?

Do you think it is acceptable for someone to think this?  I don't think she, or anyone really, care what spin you put on it.  The question is basic.

Do we, as a free people, have the right to think that homosexuality is wrong?  This implies that if you disagree, that means you think it is acceptable to control what one believes and thinks.


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## BreezeWood (Aug 25, 2017)

Votto said:


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Votto said:


> If Jesus were here today he would not give sermons on the evils of global warming




please, Jesus was not a fundamentalist christian if one at all, it's better you reserve that praise for yourself.


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## Bonzi (Aug 25, 2017)

emilynghiem said:


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Christians do realize people are born that way but feel if they live good should abstain


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## emilynghiem (Aug 25, 2017)

Darkwind said:


> Why is it no one is actually addressing what she really asked?
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> Do you think it is acceptable for someone to think this?  I don't think she, or anyone really, care what spin you put on it.  The question is basic.
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> Do we, as a free people, have the right to think that homosexuality is wrong?  This implies that if you disagree, that means you think it is acceptable to control what one believes and thinks.


That may be one way to look at it as wanting to "control" what people believe and think.

But what if you want to wait to answer until after people see more scientific study and proof what is going on with homosexuality? What if you want to wait until after people come to a conclusion and understanding spiritually of what is involved as a process?

I don't want people to be judged one way or another, but just held to be consistent. If you are going to ask to keep Christian beliefs in private then why not allow Christian's to ask to keep LGBT beliefs in private? If you insist on accepting LGBT beliefs as naturally occurring instead of rejecting this, then why not allow Christian's to teach those beliefs as natural truths to be included as well?

In general Darkwind I have as much trouble judging ppl for their beliefs if they don't have full information from all sources and sides, as I do with ppl who insist they already know but  they refuse to include cases or information that shows their beliefs are not the only rule that applies. This happens on both sides, unfortunately, so it's unfair to judge one side without judging the other for this same tactic of discounting any evidence which might prove the other side is right in some cases but not others.

That's why I'd rather establish all the cases and evidence that explain why ppl on different sides have different views, and then ask ppl what they believe. Whatever is inconsistent or conflicting should take care of itself in the process. Thus there is no need to judge, since ppl ' s views are going to change to include each other instead of rejecting each other. I'd rather wait until ppl have fully informed choices before I assess who believes what. And by then there wont be any reason to judge because everyone will be equally right on some points and equally wrong on others. Everyone's thinking will expand to understand better where each other is coming from.


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## shockedcanadian (Aug 25, 2017)

I believe firmly in the ideal "to each their own".  Jesus forgave an adulterer.  Jesus suggested the Golden Rule is "Do unto others as you want them to do unto you."  Even suggesting it was from the law of Moses.

Therefore, by simple deduction if we take just these two very important and well known facts about Jesus then I cannot believe Jesus would judge someone who is gay with any extreme malice.  In the Ten Commandments there is no mention of homosexuality, these were words directly from God and presented by Moses for all of humanity to know.  

So, in the end, I look at life this way, I'm the one who has to die when I die and I have to face judgement for my sins, not you.  Obviously vice versa.  So, let the Lord judge and love thy neighbour, be they gay or otherwise.


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## LittleNipper (Aug 25, 2017)

emilynghiem said:


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Scientific studies are not always correct. As an example, I firmly believe that the theory of evolution has a lot to be desired. Since everyone is born a sinner, I see no reason that everyone is NOT born with different sinful tendencies.  There are liars, cheaters, thieves, sexual deviants, people with anger issues, etc., etc, etc... Just because some people may feel a closeness to someone of the same sex or have an artistic flair, doesn't mean that GOD cannot have an entirely different application for such an individual. Just because someone is drawn to others of the same sex doesn't mean that such an individual must fulfill his/her sexual appetite in that regard. In fact, I honestly feel that friendship is a blessing from GOD, it is Satan that wants to ruin it and abuse it through sexual confusion. GOD created sex for procreation --- which doesn't mean sex isn't enjoyable. It does mean that sex only performed for one's personal gratification is a slippery slope leading to abuse because it excludes GOD as its designer. Adultery, fornication, bestiality, homosexuality, prostitution, molestation, pornography are all evil and abusive in their nature.


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## LittleNipper (Aug 25, 2017)

shockedcanadian said:


> I believe firmly in the ideal "to each their own".  Jesus forgave an adulterer.  Jesus suggested the Golden Rule is "Do unto others as you want them to do unto you."  Even suggesting it was from the law of Moses.
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> Therefore, by simple deduction if we take just these two very important and well known facts about Jesus then I cannot believe Jesus would judge someone who is gay with any extreme malice.  In the Ten Commandments there is no mention of homosexuality, these were words directly from God and presented by Moses for all of humanity to know.
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> So, in the end, I look at life this way, I'm the one who has to die when I die and I have to face judgement for my sins, not you.  Obviously vice versa.  So, let the Lord judge and love thy neighbour, be they gay or otherwise.


I can appreciate what you have stated. Do not forget that Jesus told the woman caught in the act of adultery, "Go and sin NO MORE." So the fact is that Jesus never said that what she did was not wrong. What Jesus did was both demonstrate that HE was able to forgive sin, and was not without compassion for this individual who was being used to try to destroy Christ's ministry. One must remember that Christ also was writing something in the sand. It has been suggested that Jesus was convicting all the men standing there with their own sins --- and this is why they all went away...


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## Bonzi (Aug 26, 2017)

The proper Christian view on homosexuality is like any other sin.
If you are a believer/Christian, you are to turn away from your sin.

There is nothing in the Bible that says if you are born with a sexual preference, it is OK.  It clearly states throughout the Bible that it's an abomination to God

If you are not a Christian, you would not worry about sin of any kind....you might your own moral code, but that is entirely different.


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## Mudda (Aug 26, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
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> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?


Homosexuality is found throughout nature. So if you think that god created everything...

And Jesus died on the cross for our sins, so that point is moot.


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## Marion Morrison (Aug 26, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
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> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?



That's between them and God. Absolutely people have the right to voice their opinion, doubly so because it's a religious matter. (See 1st amendment)

I believe in live and let live.

I don't believe in introducing children to homosexuality as being normal, because it isn't.

Even worse to do it before they reach puberty, that's egregiously wrong. Children are not sexual.


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## Dogmaphobe (Aug 26, 2017)

I have poured through the New Testament thoroughly, and have compiled an exhaustive list of statements by Jesus telling us that homosexuality is a sin.  Any good Christian should realize that He said "believe in ME and ye shall be saved" rather than "believe in Saul of Tarsus and ye shall me saved", and so His words are of utmost import here. In any case, please read below all of the statements Jesus made to His followers regarding the evils of homosexuality.  Here goes:


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## Vastator (Aug 26, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
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> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?


There is no such thing as sin. Sin is a construct of religion, that is used to keep those under its sway controlled. There is no magical sky genie lurking overhead watching to see what you stick in your butt. The idea alone is a barrel of laughs.
On a side note; when someone invents a religion that is all about freaky unhindered hetero sex; let me know. I'll be all in. Now that would be something to believe in...


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## tecoyah (Aug 26, 2017)

What would you think of a man who wore a dress, spent his whole life hanging out with men, never got married or was seen with a woman in "That" way?


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## Bonzi (Aug 26, 2017)

Vastator said:


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In the spirit of freedom and tolerance, was just seeing if there was tolerance for those that choose to believe in a God that requires us to strive to suppress our sins out of love for Him


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## Bonzi (Aug 26, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


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Promoting agendas in a public school setting is a no no. If you want your kid to have an agenda pushed on him, send him to a private school.


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## Bonzi (Aug 26, 2017)

Mudda said:


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God holds us higher than other species. Animals don't have souls


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## Vastator (Aug 26, 2017)

Bonzi said:


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...does...not...compute...?


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## Vastator (Aug 26, 2017)

Bonzi said:


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Who says? Do people? Can you substantiate either claim?


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## Bonzi (Aug 26, 2017)

Vastator said:


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For some it does, thus, tolerance


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## Bonzi (Aug 26, 2017)

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Nope, but this is what many Christians believe, which, they have a right to. And, the theory is that we can exert self control to behave in a way pleasing to God if we love Him


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## Vastator (Aug 26, 2017)

Bonzi said:


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Whereby; if "He" really loved me... he could exert self control to behave in a way that is pleasing to me... "Love" after all, in the classical sense has to be a two way street. Most would settle for him simply making himself known. And no... other people telling you about it through word of mouth, or writing doesn't cut it.


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## Mudda (Aug 26, 2017)

Bonzi said:


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Some people's god think that even rocks have souls, let alone animals. What makes you think that your god is the right one and that animals don't have souls?


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## Bonzi (Aug 26, 2017)

Vastator said:


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Those that choose to believe this way, defer to God as the ultimate rule maker. They are after all believers, so, they worship Him and realize as an unfallible being he is always right and perfect.  Those that don't believe make their own rules and live by their own moral code


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## Vastator (Aug 26, 2017)

Bonzi said:


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And by doing the latter; are they not by default... following this Gods example. If so in a twist of irony, it would make the latter more Godly...


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## petro (Aug 26, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
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> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?


Non religious,  so don't think of it as a sin. If it wasn't for the constant pushing of an agenda by the media I really wouldn't be thinking of it at all or really care.
I find public displays of affection simply inappropriate by anyone and really don't care to have the imagery of gay lifestyle constantly thrown in my face.
No one has a right to tell you what to do in the bedroom. How about keeping it there. Goes for heteros and homos.
Not agreeing with a lifestyle somehow has been equated with hate and bigotry and fear. None of which I practice or believe. I just disagree.


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## Bonzi (Aug 26, 2017)

Mudda said:


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I was just stating what Christians believe. I am not knowledgable of other religions but they obviously have a right to voice their beliefs


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## Bonzi (Aug 26, 2017)

Vastator said:


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Really? How so?


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## fncceo (Aug 26, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
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> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?



Belief that a certain act is immoral is just fine, that's a personal belief.  Believing it to be based on scripture becomes problematic.  Leviticus specifically mentions male homosexuality (and tantalizingly ignores girl on girl action) as a forbidden act and labels it a capital crime.  However, there are many prohibitions, specifically the prohibitions on diet, that modern day xtians specifically ignore.  It's hard to condemn homosexuality based on scripture while one is eating cheeseburgers guilt free because they are both forbidden by scripture.

So, if your belief that homosexuality is immoral is based on your own personal morality and you're not imposing that morality on others, go nuts.  Believe what you want.

However, if you're seeking to foist your religious views on others based on scripture, you've got some theological problems to overcome.


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## Marion Morrison (Aug 26, 2017)

In b4 Progfaggapatriot Prime shows up.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 26, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
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> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?


People have a right to think and believe as they like.  Anyone who thinks they can legislate thoughts, beliefs or stupidity is an idiot.

What we can do is ensure that laws don't strip a person's rights for religious or political reasons.


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## Bonzi (Aug 26, 2017)

fncceo said:


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Those folks believe in one nation under God and feel we are smiting God by legalizing this aggregious sin. They argue that many Levitical sins were before Jesus, however, Homosexuality (and divorce except under certain condition) were unacceptable on Gods sight even after Jesus


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## fncceo (Aug 26, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Homosexuality (and divorce except under certain condition) were unacceptable on Gods sight even after Jesus



I'm no expert on the xtian scriptures, but where is homosexuality specifically forbidden in their texts?


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## Marion Morrison (Aug 26, 2017)

fncceo said:


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Not forbidden, not smiled upon, either.

God rained fire and brimstone down on Sodom and Gomorrah because they were so perverse and corrupted..


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## Divine Wind (Aug 26, 2017)

fncceo said:


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25 Top Bible Verses about Homosexuality - Scriptures

It's not just Christian, but Jewish and Muslim AKA Abrahamic religions.

FWIW, similar passages are equally against incest, adultery, sex outside of marriage, etc.


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## Vastator (Aug 26, 2017)

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By emulating what this "God" does.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 26, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


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There was a lot more said to be going on in Sodom and Gomorrah than homosexuality.  Rape, murder, orgies, etc.


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## fncceo (Aug 26, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


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That's the basis of my conundrum.  If homosexuality between consenting adults is forbidden based on scripture, why isn't eating bacon, which is just a specifically forbidden.

The argument is that Jesus nullified the previous biblical prohibitions but that would have to include homosexuality (as well as murder and adultery) as well.


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## Marion Morrison (Aug 26, 2017)

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They tried to rape angels.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 26, 2017)

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God is God.  The Bible is mankind's interpretation of God and what God wants.  Those are two different concepts.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 26, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


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Lesson Learned:  Don't fuck with the Angels!


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 26, 2017)

fncceo said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Homosexuality (and divorce except under certain condition) were unacceptable on Gods sight even after Jesus
> ...


----------



## Marion Morrison (Aug 26, 2017)

tecoyah This is right up your alley.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 26, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


Passages such as that belie the concept that God is all powerful, all knowing and all merciful.   So which is it?  Is God really all of those things or is the Bible 100% correct?


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 26, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > fncceo said:
> ...


Well some believe it is....not sure what you mean that this indicates God is not all powerful...


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 26, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


Yes, they do.  Some believe Jesus was a Liberal and some believe in talking in tongues and playing with snakes. 

God can't hate or condemn someone forever to Hell if God is all merciful.  God isn't all knowing if God didn't know that a person was born gay and would act according to what their heart tells them.


----------



## yiostheoy (Aug 26, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?


Everyone should believe in something.

I believe I will have another drink.

Everyone should be tolerant of others so that everyone can coexist.

With 7 billion people on the planet at the moment -- and growing -- there is no one ideology or religion or philosophy or scientific school that fits all.

Ergo tolerance and coexistence are critical for world peace.

The Catholics and the Muslims have each already tried to force a world religion on everybody an it did not work.  It would never work.

As for homo's being sinners or not, that depends on the doctrines and the dogmas of your own religion.

You can believe anything you want.

You can believe in Santa Clause.  You can believe in the Tooth Faerie.  You can believe in the Easter Bunny.  And you can believe in the Faerie Godmother.  But you can also bet the Boogieman will get you if you try to force your religion or your lack of religion on anybody else.

Q.E.D.


----------



## yiostheoy (Aug 26, 2017)

Dogmaphobe said:


> I have poured through the New Testament thoroughly, and have compiled an exhaustive list of statements by Jesus telling us that homosexuality is a sin.  Any good Christian should realize that He said "believe in ME and ye shall be saved" rather than "believe in Saul of Tarsus and ye shall me saved", and so His words are of utmost import here. In any case, please read below all of the statements Jesus made to His followers regarding the evils of homosexuality.  Here goes:


It's PORED not POURED.

FYI.


----------



## LittleNipper (Aug 26, 2017)

Vastator said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think?
> ...


So, if I were to shoot you in a society that says that there is nothing wrong with shooting people, it would be fine? And so if you were to take a 13 year old boy into the closet in say the city of Sodom and introduce him to the wild world of sexuality and the rest to the city was entirely OK with that, that would be acceptable?

Thank GOD that a belief in GOD totally disagrees with you! Good and bad is not based on what we think or want, but what GOD proclaims.  

It is peculiar when it is comprehended that people imagine that modern man is superior to some poor barbarian living in a cave --- the reality is that they are both one and the very same --- it's only the excuses that are different...


----------



## Mudda (Aug 26, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


So basically, it's ok with you for people to live in a fantasy world.


----------



## Mudda (Aug 26, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Mudda said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


So you don't believe it yourself? Good for you.


----------



## LittleNipper (Aug 26, 2017)

Mudda said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think?
> ...


Again, GOD created a perfect universe. When Adam and Eve decided to listen to Satan, they corrupted not only themselves but the entire Creation. Nature groans under the weight of sin. Animals now attack each other, insects carry diseases, plants are poisonous and give rashes, mountains and oceans now separate people. What you are trying to promote is corrupted lies and half-truths. You either never read the Bible or you simply close your eyes and ears to those things that annoy you!


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 26, 2017)

Mudda said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Mudda said:
> ...


I believe in God, yes, but I am not committed to faith that much....if that makes sense


----------



## LittleNipper (Aug 26, 2017)

Mudda said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Vastator said:
> ...


And the world you are creating around your feelings/desires is real? I have found GOD and I notice that there is a big difference between those that have a regard for GOD and those that deny HIM. The difference is that the ungodly have no ideals, they only have a list of their personal demands. The godly seek what is best for everyone and not simply for their moment in the sun.


----------



## petro (Aug 26, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Mudda said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


Actually yes. Spirituality really has nothing to do with human organized religion.


----------



## Darkwind (Aug 26, 2017)

emilynghiem said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> > Why is it no one is actually addressing what she really asked?
> ...


This is not what is being asked.  Sometimes, people overthink things.  

Its simple.  Does anyone in this country have the right to have a moral position that homosexuality is a sin?

It is a yes/no question.  Either they do have that right, or they don't.  If you believe they don't, how, exactly, will that be enforced?


----------



## Vastator (Aug 26, 2017)

Darkwind said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> > Darkwind said:
> ...


Its not that simple. The question presupposes that all respondents believe in "sin". Which isnt true.


----------



## Darkwind (Aug 26, 2017)

Vastator said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> > emilynghiem said:
> ...


They don't have to believe in it inorder to know what it is.  However, that too is not the focus of the question.

I could easily rephrase the question to say, "Do people have a right to hold the moral position that abortion is wrong?"

It is the exact same question.  The focuse of the sentence is on a person have a right to a moral position.  The position can be anything.   The issue is the right to have a moral belief.


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## Vastator (Aug 26, 2017)

Darkwind said:


> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> > Darkwind said:
> ...


Could you prevent a person from having a belief begin with...? If "no"; where do rights enter the picture?


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## Tommy Tainant (Aug 26, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?


It is wrong to think so but you have every right to believe it.


----------



## Michelle420 (Aug 26, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?



It's not a sin imo. I have a right to my opinion.


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 26, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?


Just remember that God hates Fags


----------



## Darkwind (Aug 26, 2017)

Vastator said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> > Vastator said:
> ...


We're going to find out soon.  It seems that there are many who think that having a moral belief contrary to what the ones they hold is grounds for removing them from this country.  That is what the phrase, "No room in this country for that kind of belief," means.

I was just curious as to why everyone was avoding the real questio asked in the OP.  This just lends itself to My belief that people on this forum will argue anything, just for the sake of arguing.  Have a good one.


----------



## Marion Morrison (Aug 26, 2017)

tecoyah said:


> What would you think of a man who wore a dress, spent his whole life hanging out with men, never got married or was seen with a woman in "That" way?



I would think men look strange in dresses, and that's between him and God.


----------



## Vastator (Aug 26, 2017)

Roman Soldier

 Greek Hopelite

 


I would think men look strange in dresses, and that's between him and God.[/QUOTE]


----------



## tecoyah (Aug 26, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> tecoyah said:
> 
> 
> > What would you think of a man who wore a dress, spent his whole life hanging out with men, never got married or was seen with a woman in "That" way?
> ...


What if he IS God?


----------



## Marion Morrison (Aug 26, 2017)

tecoyah said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> > tecoyah said:
> ...


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Aug 26, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


For most – if not all – gay theists who believe with whom one is intimate is not a ‘sin,’ there’s nothing to ‘suppress.’

The lack of tolerance, unfortunately, manifests with those who are not gay yet perceive homosexuality to be a ‘sin.’


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Aug 26, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Mudda said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


With regard to homosexuality, there is no consensus among Christians as how to believe – hence gay Christians, gay members of the clergy, and the marrying of same-sex couples in Christian churches; none of whom consider homosexuality a sin.


----------



## Mudda (Aug 26, 2017)

LittleNipper said:


> Mudda said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


If god created the perfect universe, why do babies get cancer and die? And didn't god created homosexuality in nature?


----------



## Mudda (Aug 26, 2017)

LittleNipper said:


> Mudda said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


I am open to god contacting me. And if the godly seek what is best for everyone then why do some of them vote republican?


----------



## Mudda (Aug 26, 2017)

God said to Adam: don't fuck the woman or I'll ban you. Now how gay is that?


----------



## Papageorgio (Aug 26, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think?
> ...



No it's not wrong. Just because you disagree with an opinion doesn't mean it is wrong. Where is your liberal tolerance?


----------



## HenryBHough (Aug 26, 2017)

To think homosexuality isn't nice definitely IS a sin to progressives.  Sin for  having thought at all.


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## Tommy Tainant (Aug 26, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


Where is your tolerance for my opinion ?


----------



## Papageorgio (Aug 26, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



You have a right to it, I am saying just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean it is wrong.


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## Tommy Tainant (Aug 26, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Thanks, that work both ways of course.


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 26, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


You look like a dorky version of Hitler. Who could even take you seriously. Loser


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 26, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Doesn't mean it's right either


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 26, 2017)

drifter said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think?
> ...


Absolutely! I'm just saying we need not get angry about our differences. It's all good


----------



## Tommy Tainant (Aug 26, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Because I am generally right about everything.


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## Papageorgio (Aug 26, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



Sure it does, except the left doesn't like for it to work both ways.


----------



## Papageorgio (Aug 26, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



Nope, they are all opinion and it is based on individual perceptions.


----------



## Papageorgio (Aug 26, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



You need to start doing that on this message board, because it seems you are always wrong on here.


----------



## Tommy Tainant (Aug 26, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Im the left. Im  cool with it.


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## Tommy Tainant (Aug 26, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


Link !!


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## Papageorgio (Aug 26, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



Just look at all your post, you are always wrong. It's okay.


----------



## Tommy Tainant (Aug 26, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


No, you just dont agree with my point of view.


----------



## Papageorgio (Aug 26, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



The only reason you think you are right is because of your intolerant view. You aren't right however in your fantasy world you always be.


----------



## Tommy Tainant (Aug 26, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


How am I intolerant ? I treat people the way I would want to be treated. The only people I have a problem with are those who wish to condemn and oppress those who are different from themselves.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 27, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


Tolerance ≠ agreement or condoning. 

Some people think adultery is a sin and do not condone it, but they tolerate is as a personal choice and between the adulterers and God.


----------



## Papageorgio (Aug 27, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



Nicely put. That is pretty much my viewpoint.


----------



## Taz (Aug 27, 2017)

People who are against homosexuality spend WAY too much time thinking about gay sex. I wonder why that is?


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 27, 2017)

Taz said:


> People who are against homosexuality spend WAY too much time thinking about gay sex. I wonder why that is?


Agreed.  Especially since adultery is just as great a sin as homosexuality. 

Then there's the fact that some ardent anti-homosexuals are latent homosexuals.

Homophobes Might Be Hidden Homosexuals
_"Sometimes people are threatened by gays and lesbians because they are fearing their own impulses, in a sense they 'doth protest too much,'" Ryan told LiveScience. "In addition, it appears that sometimes those who would oppress others have been oppressed themselves, and we can have some compassion for them too, they may be unaccepting of others because they cannot be accepting of themselves."_


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## Tommy Tainant (Aug 27, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Adultery is "sinful" because there is an element of deceit and dishonesty involved in the act. I dont think that you can equate that with homosexuality.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 27, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


Sure I can.  You equate the US with the Third Reich all the time.  

Dude, pull your head out of wherever it is a get a clue; we're talking about the Bible, the source of what is sinful or not.  IMHO, I don't give a shit what consenting adults do in their own homes.


----------



## Tommy Tainant (Aug 27, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


You make things up to wriggle out of an argument that you have lost.


----------



## Papageorgio (Aug 27, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



The Bible says that men that lie with men is a sin, just like other sins. 

I tolerate homosexuality, adultery, I don't have to accept it. To me it is wrong behavior, that is my opinion, I don't expect anyone else to follow it. Sin is sin, I have enough of my own shortcomings to worry about others.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 27, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...


Feel better now?  When you man up, please post what argument I've "lost", in your opinion.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 27, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


Agreed 100% about not worrying about the sins of others.  That's _their_ problem.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Aug 27, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?


It is wrong for Christianity to monopolize the Straight Rights movement.


----------



## Avatar4321 (Aug 27, 2017)

No. It's not wrong to recognize the truth.

But I think that unless we struggle with that sin personally we should focus on overcoming the sins we struggle with in our life.

Are we sexually immoral? Lets repent and stop?

Do we lie? Let us repent and speak the truth.

Do we covet? Let us learn to give freely what the Lord has blessed us with.

Do we rob God? Let us pay our tithes and offerings to the Lord.

Do we take the Lords name in vain? Or use crass communications? Let us purify our heart and our language?

Are we rude or mean to others? Let us be kind.

Lets pull the beams from our eyes so we can better help our brethren with their motes.


----------



## BreezeWood (Aug 27, 2017)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think?
> ...


.


The Sage of Main Street said:


> It is wrong for Christianity to monopolize the Straight Rights movement.




they've been at it since writing their 4th century book -






and continue to enjoy themselves to the present day.

the 1st century events were liberation the antithesis of 4th century christian prosecution.


----------



## Avatar4321 (Aug 27, 2017)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Tommy Tainant said:
> ...



Adultery is sinful because it is an unlawful use of the powers to create life. It is also a violation of integrity


----------



## Dragonlady (Aug 27, 2017)

RodISHI said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > TNHarley said:
> ...



Well so much for "Judge not lest you be judged", which is what Jesus said. Jesus also said "Let those among you who are without sin, cast the first stone". 

The Lord told us to love one another and not to judge others. Some people seem to think He wasn't talking about them. They're perfectly free to judge, to discriminate, and to shun. 

I try to show kindness and compassion to all. Even those who don't believe as I do.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Aug 27, 2017)

Votto said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Votto said:
> ...



*Quit Whimpering or You Will Go Out With a Bang*

The Crusades set back Islamic World Conquest 500 years.  By the time the jihadis got to the gates of Vienna in 1683, they were corrupt and had lost their religious commitment.  They dawdled for weeks; their last chance to save the jihad came on SEPTEMBER ELEVENTH of that year.

Why do you Dhimmis take it for granted that everybody thinks the Crusaders were evildoers?  Eisenhower titled his World War II book "Crusade in Europe."  Under a language polluted by New Age sewage, that would imply he fought for the Nazis.


----------



## basquebromance (Aug 27, 2017)

we gays think heterosexuality is a sin. and gross.


----------



## Papageorgio (Aug 27, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



I see tolerance, not seeing much judging. I show kindness and compassion to all, however that doesn't mean I have to accept a person's actions. I have got my own imperfections to worry about anyone else's.


----------



## BreezeWood (Aug 27, 2017)

Avatar4321 said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


.


Avatar4321 said:


> Adultery is sinful because it is an unlawful use of the powers to create life. It is also a violation of integrity




biology says otherwise, what vows are taken and received determine adultery. integrity.


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 27, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



I'm not sure why any one would care of someone else is judging you.
You should not even give another person that kind of power... so if it bothers you that is your problem.


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 27, 2017)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think?
> ...



Do they?


----------



## Dragonlady (Aug 27, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...



I don't care what others think of me. I know who I am. God knows who I am. I'm just trying to live a good life, helping others when I can.


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## rightwinger (Aug 27, 2017)

Is it wrong to think that hating people for whom they choose to love is a sin?


----------



## Papageorgio (Aug 27, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Is it wrong to think that hating people for whom they choose to love is a sin?



Again, the left is bringing up the word hate. Love who you want, I don't care, however I don't need to approve of the behavior, and I can be tolerant at the same time. 

I'm not sure why those on the left can't understand that concept.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 27, 2017)

Homosexuality is a sin.
Does it make the homosexual evil?
No.
Does making an asshole of one's self in public make one evil?
No
It just makes one an asshole.

Your sexual inclination is your own business; keep it that way.


----------



## LittleNipper (Aug 27, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think?
> ...


God doesn't hate anyone! God hates what they do!


----------



## Marion Morrison (Aug 27, 2017)

Mudda said:


> God said to Adam: don't fuck the woman or I'll ban you. Now how gay is that?



Proof? Sounds like bullshit to me.

Proof or you're fulla bull, k?


----------



## LittleNipper (Aug 27, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...


GOD doesn't want us to apply our own standards to judge people. GOD wants us to use HIS standards as spelled out scripturally. The entire issue concerning homosexual marriage is founded upon governmental/secular values that are contrary to GOD's standards. And now the government is slowly forcing their standards on people who practice God's higher standards in an effort to undermined those religious beliefs.


----------



## RodISHI (Aug 27, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Well so much for "Judge not lest you be judged", which is what Jesus said. Jesus also said "Let those among you who are without sin, cast the first stone".
> 
> The Lord told us to love one another and not to judge others. Some people seem to think He wasn't talking about them. They're perfectly free to judge, to discriminate, and to shun.
> 
> I try to show kindness and compassion to all. Even those who don't believe as I do.


So who is it casting stones? If you subject yourself that is on you. Jesus never said to anyone 'try not to discern good from evil'. Fact is he taught about those who are blinded in their own sins. If you read through the rest of the good book it also warns about not attaching yourself to men and women with evil intent. Yet even so it is left up to each to make those choices on paths that they will go down and what they will let into their abodes. 

Feel free to go hug a viper if you like. After all it is your right. Just do not think for one moment that I will freely give you the right to tell me that I must accept and embrace your personal problems or pay the price for your personal choices.


----------



## Dragonlady (Aug 27, 2017)

RodISHI said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > Well so much for "Judge not lest you be judged", which is what Jesus said. Jesus also said "Let those among you who are without sin, cast the first stone".
> ...



I have not suggested that anyone embrace evil or let it into their homes. I pay for my own life and my own choices and always have. I have also taken a homeless pregnant woman into my home because she had nowhere else to go, fostered a profoundly abused child, and helped those less fortunate than me, without being asked. 

When I was a teenager, I met a man who told me he lived his life for JOY. By JOY, he meant Jesus, Others, Yourself, in that order. 

That you choose to put Yourself first, is your choice because it's your life.


----------



## RodISHI (Aug 27, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...


I met the leader of the hells angels when I was a youngster. He asked me to give the community a warning for him not to go into their camp or they would be subject to whatever goes on in that camp. Pretty simple really, just don't go there as if you do you are subject to whatever goes on in their camp. 

When it comes to a personal relationship with the spirit and kingdom of God in you that is YOUR choice and obligation. If you choose to put that second in your life that is a personal choice also.


----------



## Dragonlady (Aug 27, 2017)

LittleNipper said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...



God doesn't want US to judge anyone. That's his job. Jesus spent his life among social outcasts, helping leppars, sinners, the poor, the sick and those the priests and the religious leaders cast out or ignored, and urged his followers to do the same. 

He also said "Love one another as I have loved you". He didn't put qualifiers on that. He didn't say "Love the righteous", or "Love people who are of your race", or even "Love good people". He said "Love one another". 

Most of the people posting here are willing to be tolerant, at best. That's not what Jesus said. He also said "That what did not do for the least of my brothers and sisters, you did not do for me". 

Every kindness I have ever done, has come back to me ten or twenty fold. Every unselfish deed has been rewarded even when none was asked for. I can't imagine going through life telling others they're on their own in times of trouble. When I say "If there's anything I can do to help" I genuinely mean it. 

Thats the way I was raised and it's how I choose to live my life. 

JOY!


----------



## Pogo (Aug 27, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Is it wrong to think that hating people for whom they choose to love is a sin?
> ...



And yet --- the very next post after yours.....

Oh well.  Strawmen are fun while they last huh.  Especially the ones that bring their own blankets.  SO much easier than breaking a thought sweat.


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 27, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Is it wrong to think that hating people for whom they choose to love is a sin?
> ...



I think hate is the correct term. Extreme hate

Hate to the point you don't want them in the military, don't want them teaching your kids, don't want them adopting kids, don't want them to be able to marry


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## RodISHI (Aug 27, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


You don't seem to be able to recognize the difference between hate and common sense. Hypothetically let's assume you could breed your own human children between you and your same sex partner. Do you want someone with totally different values and precepts teaching your children?


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## rightwinger (Aug 27, 2017)

RodISHI said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



What difference does it make?
Your child's homosexual teacher may be an excellent, caring teacher 

Maybe your child will learn that homosexuals are not as bad as you have been telling them


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## RodISHI (Aug 27, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


You did not answer the question. Not only that you have no clue as to what I or anyone else has relayed or taught to our children. You do though give a clue to your mindset. If your sexual issues are that important to you, personally I would not want you anywhere near my children but the fact is they are grown now and so are many of my grandchildren so they make their own choices.


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## rightwinger (Aug 27, 2017)

RodISHI said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...


Actually, you do not have a clue

Your child's teacher wil be teaching Algebra, Chemistry, a language
They will not be teaching sexual techniques

In spite of the hate you have been teaching, your child may actually learn that homosexuals are not so bad


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## RodISHI (Aug 27, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Actually mine decided on their own after they were adults that faggots were deviants. One of them told me that they were funny sometimes but never the less deviants that they didn't want to be around. Like I said if your sexual issues are a consideration at all when it comes to teaching children you don't belong around them. Nor would I want an avid porn pusher, pedo, drug addict, alcoholic or any other openly deviant person around children teaching them that life those styles are fine and dandy. Call it "teaching hate" if you wish.


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## Dragonlady (Aug 27, 2017)

RodISHI said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



Yes, I do. I want my children to know many people who are different from themselves so they won't grow up fearing or hating those who are different from them.  I learn so much from people who aren't like me and I am a better person for having met them. 

Over the years my children have had gay teachers, Muslim teachers, and atheist teachers, black teachers. 

One of the best teachers I know is a gay man and a devout Christian. One of his grade 4 students died a couple of years ago. She had a sudden illness and passed away. He was so upset by this loss you would have thought this was his own child, but he pulled himself together and helped his entire class deal with this trauma. It was touching. 

The best thing we can do for our children is to expose them to ideas, cultures and good people who can broaden their experiences, their ideas and their respect for others.


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## rightwinger (Aug 27, 2017)

RodISHI said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...


The Apple does not fall far from the tree

Hate can span generations


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## RodISHI (Aug 27, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Sorry my children didn't need to get to know or be intimate with Lester the molester down the road, Jenny the crackhead, Jug-head the street prostitute or father Dickhead or Mohammedan the pedophile and I sure as hell wouldn't have been of a mind to introduce them to them on purpose and tell the children its all good honey just explore away.


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## RodISHI (Aug 27, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


So can demonic spirits   and generational curses


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## GreenBean (Aug 27, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Re;  1.] ...."you don't want them in the military"  Not true , they'd make great fodder for the machine guns.

2.]  "don't want them teaching your kids,"  Teachers should be someone to look up to ... a closeted fag or dike would be just fine as a teacher but the minute they come out of the closet - see ya !


 3. ] "don't want them adopting kids'   ... there's little reason Lesbians shouldn't be able to adopt, they are not the greatest role models but they are certainly better than an orphanage.  So far as Gay men are concerned absolutely fkng no way should they ever be permitted to adopt children Gay males are the most prolific child molesters Humanity has ever produced.


4.]  "don't want them to be able to marry" ....  don't really give a rats ass if they wallow in their own cum infested diseased degeneracy alone or together ..


5.] You seem to be confused or are trying to confuse others ... aren't you the same guy who used to be Norton the sewer guy and then Mugs mahoney ???


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## rightwinger (Aug 27, 2017)

GreenBean said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


Thanks for proving my point about who the real sinners are


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## Votto (Aug 27, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



To be fair, there are some serious concerns with gays being in the military and raising kids.

I simply think having soldiers together who are attracted to each other adds an unnecessary complication to the task of warfare.  Do you really want soldiers bunking with each other whom they want to have sex with?  Do you even understand that this can lead to disastrous results in a life and death situation on the battle field?

And it is not just the battle field.  In todays army there is an epidemic of women you are sexually assaulted or harassed.  Do we even want to continue this problem?    If you removed women this problem would go away over night, but because the military is just another social lab for Progs they refuse to even consider removing women, even if it costs the lives of soldiers and possibly those they are trying to protect cuz it's not PC.

As for children, I've personally witnessed homes where children have two mothers.  The outcomes were not promising.  These children we wild and almost uncontrollable .  Is there any unbiased statistical analysis to drive this point home?  If there is, it would probably be from sources you reject, that is, if there are any at all who dare to enter the un-PC abyss to die and never get funding again for future research.

Could it be that there is something to offer from both male and female that is needed to help raise a child?  God forbid that a persons sex imposes and substantial differences cuz we all gotta be equal, right?


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## Votto (Aug 27, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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> > rightwinger said:
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\


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## onefour1 (Aug 27, 2017)

It is the will of God that man and woman join together eternally as a married couple. 

*Matthew 19:3-6*
3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

*1 Corinthians 11:11*
11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

*Doctrine and Covenants 132:15-22*
15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.
16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.
18 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.
19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.
20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.
21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.
22 For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.

The will of God concerning mankind on earth is for them to join together as man and woman eternally.  Anything that goes against this eternal plan of God is against his will.  For this reason homosexuality, which thwarts the will of God is considered an abomination.  God wants his children to marry the opposite sex and to have families and raise them in righteousness.  Anything that goes against the will of God is sin.  Laws in society that promote the will of God are good.  Those that go against the will of God are not good.  People who follow the will of God are righteous and those who do not are in need of repentance.

Does this mean that we as Christians should persecute those who chose to go against God?  No, we should love and pray for them and hope that they will repent and choose the right.  However, if they organize and come against us and seek our utter destruction, then we have an obligation to protect our wives and children from such wickedness.  We should always stand for that which is right and true and teach against such behaviors and promote righteousness in our schools and societies.  As Christians we should keep the faith by striving to live by every word which proceedeth forth from the mouth of God and continually repent of our short comings.  We should love one another and seek to reclaim ourselves and others from sin so we can rejoice together in the resurrection of the just when Christ shall come again upon the earth.


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## Papageorgio (Aug 27, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



So you can't answer the question. Okay.


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## westwall (Aug 27, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?







No.  It is not "wrong" to believe that.  But it is wrong to use that as an excuse to harm them in any way.


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## Papageorgio (Aug 27, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



You get the points on this one. What an ignorant idiot green bean is.


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## xotoxi (Aug 27, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> > Being gay is fine. I mean, really, who cares? It doesnt effect anyone except for that person and who he/she chooses to be with
> ...



What does the hetero flag look like?


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## Syriusly (Aug 28, 2017)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> Votto said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...



Of course the Crusaders weren't 'evildoers' when they sacked the Christian city of Constantinople- setting up the eventual fall of Constantinople to Islam. 

They were just good Christians doing God's work.


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## Syriusly (Aug 28, 2017)

LittleNipper said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...



Still fairly sure no one is going to make you get 'gay married'

You do realize that according to 'God's higher standards'- Donald Trump is just as sinful as any gay man married to another man- right?


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## Bonzi (Aug 28, 2017)

xotoxi said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > TNHarley said:
> ...


I think they came out with one for a while... I guess it didn't get too popular....






There may have been a pink and blue version too, not sure...


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## Bonzi (Aug 28, 2017)

westwall said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think?
> ...



Any Christian that believes we should intentionally harm anyone for Christian sexual sins are exactly like those that wanted to stone the prostitute.  If they read the Bible at all, they know it's wrong.


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## rightwinger (Aug 28, 2017)

Votto said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



The military has always faced the challenge of soldiers who do not get along or soldiers who victimize another soldier. In the past, it was because of race, ethnicity or gender.  The solution was to discipline the soldier who is victimizing other soldiers not removing potential victims


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## The Sage of Main Street (Aug 28, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> The Sage of Main Street said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


You know they do.


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## G.T. (Aug 28, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?


I think its a childish view of the world, and born of stubborn knowitall...ness.


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## Moonglow (Aug 28, 2017)

I think if you treat people the way you want to be treated there would be a whole lot less trouble in the world...But that was another pipe dream in the Bible...


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## Votto (Aug 28, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Votto said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



 My point is why add to the conflicts knowing that natural attraction will be a problem?

As for racism, etc., that is an unforeseeable issue to deal with.


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## Votto (Aug 28, 2017)

Moonglow said:


> I think if you treat people the way you want to be treated there would be a whole lot less trouble in the world...But that was another pipe dream in the Bible...



Treat others the way you wish to be treated?

Crucify him!!!!!!!!!!


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## The Sage of Main Street (Aug 28, 2017)

LittleNipper said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...


From experience, instinct, and wisdom, the Hebrew patriarchs knew  that tolerance of homosexuality would destroy society.  They made it a religious issue in order to make doubly sure their flock would expel it.


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## Moonglow (Aug 28, 2017)

Votto said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > I think if you treat people the way you want to be treated there would be a whole lot less trouble in the world...But that was another pipe dream in the Bible...
> ...


Him who?


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## BreezeWood (Aug 28, 2017)

.
christians have been crucifying the free spirited throughout history using their book as a pretext for violence this thread is an example for those type of individuals.


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## Bonzi (Aug 28, 2017)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > The Sage of Main Street said:
> ...


I know plenty of non Christians that don't approve of the gay lifestyle/culture....but as for an official movement, didn't even know there was one


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## Bonzi (Aug 28, 2017)

G.T. said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think?
> ...


If believing the Bible is childish, sure. I think any non believer would feel this way, yet we do have freedom of religion and I would hope living harmoniously as possible in spite of conflicting beliefs would be the goal, even if living harmoniously means as little interaction with those who beliefs anger you


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## Bonzi (Aug 28, 2017)

BreezeWood said:


> .
> christians have been crucifying the free spirited throughout history using their book as a pretext for violence this thread is an example for those type of individuals.


Who?


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## Bonzi (Aug 28, 2017)

Moonglow said:


> I think if you treat people the way you want to be treated there would be a whole lot less trouble in the world...But that was another pipe dream in the Bible...


I would find it hard to believe anyone could debate the Golden Rule....then again, some people like to be abused


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## Moonglow (Aug 28, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > I think if you treat people the way you want to be treated there would be a whole lot less trouble in the world...But that was another pipe dream in the Bible...
> ...


Do you have their phone number?


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## Bonzi (Aug 28, 2017)

Moonglow said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...


No, but Darkwind might


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## Moonglow (Aug 28, 2017)

BreezeWood said:


> .
> christians have been crucifying the free spirited throughout history using their book as a pretext for violence this thread is an example for those type of individuals.


So have none christians..


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## Moonglow (Aug 28, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


Darkwind is just another name for a fart...


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## Votto (Aug 28, 2017)

xotoxi said:


> Votto said:
> 
> 
> > I simply think having soldiers together who are attracted to each other adds an unnecessary complication to the task of warfare.  Do you really want soldiers bunking with each other whom they want to have sex with?  Do you even understand that this can lead to disastrous results in a life and death situation on the battle field?
> ...



I just think about Nanci Pelosi.  The urges just vanish immediately.






Thank God I don't have to bath and sleep with them as well.  That would be tricky.


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## ChrisL (Aug 28, 2017)

Only if you believe the Bible word for word, I suppose.


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## G.T. (Aug 28, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


theres no anger, its more like thinking people are scared by nature and so their brain will be blind to the fact theyre fulla shit....despite that something deep inside that tells them once in a blue theyre fulla shit.

castigating some as sinners for their perfectly legal and probably biological lifestyle.... is not harmonious living.


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## ChrisL (Aug 28, 2017)

I wonder why religious people put so much of their energy into gay issues?  There are much worse sins out there.  If there is a god, I doubt he cares if two men or two women decide to be together in the "biblical sense."  (heh-heh!)


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## Dragonlady (Aug 28, 2017)

Homosexuality has existed in every culture and throughout history. It has also been observed in animal species. This would indicate that it is not "deviant" behaviour at all, but rather normal behaviour for a small percentage of the population.

The idea that homosexuality is destructive to society is a falsehood.  It has no effect on straight people at all.


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## westwall (Aug 28, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...







Yes indeed.  The problem is progressives feel they have the right to regulate how a person thinks.  Which is wrong.  You regulate what a person does, not how they think.


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## Bonzi (Aug 28, 2017)

G.T. said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...


I don't disagree, but feel we need to be careful not to put everyone in the same basket


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## Bonzi (Aug 28, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> I wonder why religious people put so much of their energy into gay issues?  There are much worse sins out there.  If there is a god, I doubt he cares if two men or two women decide to be together in the "biblical sense."  (heh-heh!)


I agree. If you're a Christian, sin is sin. Just seems to be more of a hot spot no for them because of the legalization


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## ChrisL (Aug 28, 2017)

I would think that adultery would be considered a bigger sin.  After all, you made a commitment and an oath before your god with a "man of God" witnessing your oath to be faithful to your wife or husband.  So you actually made a promise to God that you broke.


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## xotoxi (Aug 28, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



Other than being incredibly bland, who would consider the hetero flag to be in bad taste?


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## ChrisL (Aug 28, 2017)

I think that most people, gay or straight, don't really feel a need to march around with a flag and making announcements.  At least that's what I would hope.  Otherwise, I would have to think it is nothing more than an "attention" issue.  Why does anyone have to know or approve?


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## Bonzi (Aug 28, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> I would think that adultery would be considered a bigger sin.  After all, you made a commitment and an oath before your god with a "man of God" witnessing your oath to be faithful to your wife or husband.  So you actually made a promise to God that you broke.


I don't personally disagree
 The Christian folk done in on scripture on Homosexuality because they say it is an "abomination", but, either way, God abhors sins of all kinds


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## Dragonlady (Aug 28, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> I would think that adultery would be considered a bigger sin.  After all, you made a commitment and an oath before your god with a "man of God" witnessing your oath to be faithful to your wife or husband.  So you actually made a promise to God that you broke.



Not to mention that adultery is listed in the 10 Commandments and homosexuality isn't even mentioned. 

My objection to the bakers claiming they wouldn't bake a wedding cake for gays on religious grounds was that they didn't discriminate against adulterers or other sinners, only homosexuals. 

If you're claiming religious freedom in discriminating against gays, you'd better be refusing to bake cakes for adulterers, liars, murderers, and blasphemers as well. Anyone who commits a sin which violates the 10 Commandments. Otherwise, you're just a homophobic bigot.


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## ChrisL (Aug 28, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > I would think that adultery would be considered a bigger sin.  After all, you made a commitment and an oath before your god with a "man of God" witnessing your oath to be faithful to your wife or husband.  So you actually made a promise to God that you broke.
> ...



Well, I don't think it is included in the Ten Commandments, which I would think are the THE most important Christian laws.  Violating any of those would be more of an abomination since the message is quite clear, no?


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## Bonzi (Aug 28, 2017)

westwall said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


I think part of the problem too is that it is felt if it's legal we need to personally be ok with it....this goes for any law .... Just as it's frustrating for Christians that others don't feel as they do, because in their mind, if we all felt and believed as they do it would be a better world, well, Progressives feel the same way...


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## Bonzi (Aug 28, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


Many Christians, unfortunately, are notorious for picking and choosing what biblical passages suit their lifestyle and agenda best.....


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## ChrisL (Aug 28, 2017)

There are things that are legal that plenty of people accept as a necessary evil in our society, like abortion, the death penalty, etc.  I don't see how two people who find love (whether that be with another of their same sex or the opposite sex) is considered bad or sinful.  What is more important is how do they treat one another?  Did they take their oaths seriously?


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## Votto (Aug 28, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Homosexuality has existed in every culture and throughout history. It has also been observed in animal species. This would indicate that it is not "deviant" behaviour at all, but rather normal behaviour for a small percentage of the population.
> 
> The idea that homosexuality is destructive to society is a falsehood.  It has no effect on straight people at all.



In Sparta, homosexuality was practiced by pretty much everyone.

In modern society, it is down to around 10%.

It would then indicate that it is culturally influenced in large part.


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## Votto (Aug 28, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> There are things that are legal that plenty of people accept as a necessary evil in our society, like abortion, the death penalty, etc.  I don't see how two people who find love (whether that be with another of their same sex or the opposite sex) is considered bad or sinful.  What is more important is how do they treat one another?  Did they take their oaths seriously?



Who cares if they took their oaths seriously?  Since when did someone make you the monogamy police?

Lots of people like to swing or are into polygamy.

So tell us, do you think polygamists are "yucky"?  Should the state continue to discriminate against them by not letting them marry?


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## ChrisL (Aug 28, 2017)

Votto said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > There are things that are legal that plenty of people accept as a necessary evil in our society, like abortion, the death penalty, etc.  I don't see how two people who find love (whether that be with another of their same sex or the opposite sex) is considered bad or sinful.  What is more important is how do they treat one another?  Did they take their oaths seriously?
> ...



I'm talking about what a god would care about.  Why would a god care about which sex you marry as long as you make each other happy?

Not to mention, keeping your oath that you made to him.


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## Votto (Aug 28, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Votto said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



Why would God care so long as people are "happy" and treat each other well?

In fact, why not just marry your dog assuming both you and your dog ae "happy" and treat each other well?


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## ChrisL (Aug 28, 2017)

Votto said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Votto said:
> ...



Because dogs can't consent to marrying.  Duh.  Dogs aren't people, stupid.


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## BreezeWood (Aug 28, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> BreezeWood said:
> 
> 
> > .
> ...


.


Bonzi said:


> If believing the Bible is childish, sure. I think any non believer would feel this way, yet we do have freedom of religion and I would hope living _*harmoniously*_ as possible in spite of conflicting beliefs would be the goal, even if living harmoniously means as little interaction with those who beliefs anger you





your type, those in this thread that defend the 4th century christian bible ...








until the crucifiers are brought to Justice the 1st century will never be realized part of that will be the thorough cleansing of the 4th century book that has had periods of revisions but lacks the necessary effort for its dismissal as heresy in regards to its purpose and idolatry.


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## Votto (Aug 28, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Votto said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



Do animals consent to being locked away in zoos or killed and eaten?

You're telling me they need a consent to have sex?   Really?

What about the dog that humps your leg?

And you call me stupid?


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## Dragonlady (Aug 28, 2017)

Votto said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > There are things that are legal that plenty of people accept as a necessary evil in our society, like abortion, the death penalty, etc.  I don't see how two people who find love (whether that be with another of their same sex or the opposite sex) is considered bad or sinful.  What is more important is how do they treat one another?  Did they take their oaths seriously?
> ...



Yes and yes.


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## Dragonlady (Aug 28, 2017)

Votto said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Votto said:
> ...


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## Votto (Aug 28, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Votto said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



What place is it of yours in a secular utopia to say that someone's sex choices are "yucky"?

Are you a polygophobe?


----------



## GreenBean (Aug 28, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Still can't come up with a decent comeback - I would have thought you honed your skills but alas you'll always be a dumbass


----------



## GreenBean (Aug 28, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> The Sage of Main Street said:
> 
> 
> > Votto said:
> ...


That was the Liberal faction ....


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 28, 2017)

GreenBean said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > The Sage of Main Street said:
> ...



That was the Crusader faction. 

Tragic story actually

The Crusaders looted, terrorized, and vandalized Constantinople for three days, during which many ancient and medieval Roman and Greek works were either stolen or destroyed. The famous bronze horses from the Hippodrome were sent back to adorn the façade of St Mark's Basilica in Venice, where they remain. As well as being stolen, works of immeasurable artistic value were destroyed merely for their material value. One of the most precious works to suffer such a fate was a large bronze statue of Hercules, created by the legendary Lysippos, court sculptor of Alexander the Great. Like so many other priceless artworks made of bronze, the statue was melted down for its content by the Crusaders. The great Library of Constantinople was destroyed as well.[9]

Despite their oaths and the threat of excommunication, the Crusaders systematically violated the city's holy sanctuaries, destroying or stealing all they could lay hands on; nothing was spared, not even the tombs of the emperors inside the St Apostles church.[10] The civilian population of Constantinople were subject to the Crusaders' ruthless lust for spoils and glory; thousands of them were killed in cold blood.[11] Women, including nuns, were raped by the Crusader army,[12] which also sacked churches, monasteries and convents.[11] The very altars of these churches were smashed and torn to pieces for their gold and marble by the warriors.[10]


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## Syriusly (Aug 28, 2017)

Votto said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Votto said:
> ...



Silly contards who think that dogs can consent to marriage.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 28, 2017)

Votto said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > There are things that are legal that plenty of people accept as a necessary evil in our society, like abortion, the death penalty, etc.  I don't see how two people who find love (whether that be with another of their same sex or the opposite sex) is considered bad or sinful.  What is more important is how do they treat one another?  Did they take their oaths seriously?
> ...



Do you think polygamists should be allowed to marry? Certainly the Bible provides examples of polygamy so it isn't a religious issue. 

Not that that has anything to do with marriage between a couple of consenting adults.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 28, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> BreezeWood said:
> 
> 
> > .
> ...



Literally?  I don't think any. 

But Christians have passed morality laws to punish those who violate 'Christian' sins- most notably in context the laws against consensual male sodomy- laws still on the book, and defended by the Christian right- overturned only because of the Supreme Court.


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## Syriusly (Aug 28, 2017)

westwall said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



How do we regulate how someone thinks? 

We know that Christians for decades tried to regulate speech- which by extension I believe would be 'thinking'- with book bannings and boycotts.

We also know that Christians were happy to try to regulate what a person does- because of how the person thinks- such as the bans- and attempted bans by the Christian Right of teachers suspected of being homosexual. These were not attempts to ban an action- but the teachers own sexual orientation- i.e. their thinking.


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## Syriusly (Aug 28, 2017)

Votto said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > Homosexuality has existed in every culture and throughout history. It has also been observed in animal species. This would indicate that it is not "deviant" behaviour at all, but rather normal behaviour for a small percentage of the population.
> ...



Not really- any more than men having homosexual sex in prison is a 'cultural thing'

Sparta didn't care what a persons sexual orientation was- in Sparta men were paired up with boys. But those same men were expected to get married, have sex with women and have children. 

Certainly there can be a social construct to it- a society where homosexuality is rigidly repressed- like certain Muslim countries- and earlier Christian countries will have fewer people admitting their homosexuality. 

It doesn't mean necessarily that there are fewer(or more) persons who have sexual attraction to people of the same gender.


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## Syriusly (Aug 28, 2017)

Votto said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Votto said:
> ...



Yeah- because you are the stupid contard who thinks that dogs can consent to be married or consent to have sex with a human.

Apparently this consent thing is problematic for you.


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## Bonzi (Aug 28, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


Obviously that doesn't work, the only way true change happens is born out of wisdom or love. Never coersion or oppression


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## Dragonlady (Aug 28, 2017)

People having homosexual sex in a single sex environment is not indicative of the prevalence of homosexuality. Sailors often had homosexual relations on long sea voyages too during colonial times too, and "cabin boys" were taken on board as a sexual outlet for the captain. It doesn't mean the captain, or his crew were homosexuals. Prisons are notorious for homosexual behaviours but most people revert to heterosexual behaviour when they return to normal environment.


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## westwall (Aug 28, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...








The thought police are everywhere dude.  They want to make it illegal for people to believe anything that is counter to the progressive paradigm.  The problem is you can't regulate what people think.  No matter who you look at throughout history, they have always managed to dislike someone else.  It is human nature.  The way you fight wrong headed thinking is to allow them to think the way they do without rancor, but to educate them slowly, but ever so slowly why what they think is wrong headed.  

Progressives don't believe in allowing people the time to evolve.  It is quite apparent that they would rather just kill them.


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## Bonzi (Aug 28, 2017)

Some men would prefer masturbation to same sex sex tho


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## Boss (Aug 28, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?



I approach this from a completely neutral perspective. I'm not a Christian but I have a broad familiarity with Christian religion. I have close friends and family who are homosexual. I don't hate them, obviously. My judgement of people is based solely on character of the individual. I didn't support Gay Marriage because I don't believe governments should be in the business of defining what IS or ISN'T a marriage between two consenting adults. I think it sets a very dangerous precedent to establish legal marriage, sanctioned by government, on the basis of sexual proclivities. 

SO... let's tackle your question... Do I think homosexuality is a sin? First, there is a clear distinction that needs to be considered. Homosexuality, from my viewpoint, is a condition. Maybe you're born with it or maybe you aren't? Perhaps it's some of both? In any event, the condition of homosexuality is not the same thing as acting on the condition. For example, you could be a sociopathic person but it doesn't mean you are going to chop people up and put them in your freezer like Jeffery Dahmer. 

I have personally known people who are homosexual but they don't engage in homosexual acts because they believe it's wrong. (i.e.; sinful) I've even known some who are in heterosexual marriages and have children. So there is a clear distinction between homosexuality and homosexual behavior. 

Now, getting into the "sinful" part. The Bible's beef is not with the sexual act itself. After all, if people can't have sex, they can't procreate. Obviously, homosexual acts can't result in procreation. So these become what is known as "sins of the flesh." Therefore, it becomes no different than merely having casual sex with someone you don't intend to procreate with. The "sin" is equal... but here's the thing... according to The Bible, God knows that humans are sinful. We aren't expected to be without sin, that's the whole entire purpose of salvation.


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## Syriusly (Aug 28, 2017)

westwall said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



Yeah- because the 'progressives' are all out there 'killing' those they disagree with......

Just as its apparent that for the last 300 years Christians would rather just kill those who don't follow Christian rules.....


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## Syriusly (Aug 28, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Some men would prefer masturbation to same sex sex tho



And that goes to the nature of sexual orientation- if one gender turns you off- of course masturbation would be preferred.


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## Syriusly (Aug 28, 2017)

Boss said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think?
> ...



I don't quite get that- since the government has been in the business of defining marriage for quite a long time before same sex couples wanted to be legally married too. 

If you just oppose state controlled legal marriage- then oppose that- not just when it includes same gender couples.


----------



## westwall (Aug 28, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...







Christians haven't been murderous swine on a grand scale for two hundred years.  Progressive governments on the other hand have managed to murder orders of magnitude more people in less than 125 years, than all of the various religions have managed to murder over the last two THOUSAND years.  Quite a group you associate with there, sport.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 28, 2017)

westwall said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



Actually Christians have been murderous swine on a grand scale for centuries.

Meanwhile- who are those progressives in America you that are all killing those that they disagree with?


----------



## westwall (Aug 28, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...







They were.  Progressives like you have managed to murder well over 180 million people in the last 125 years.  The most outrageous estimates for religious murders OF ALL RELIGIONS, is just over 10 million.  Horrible no doubt, but they are pikers compared to you murderous swine.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 28, 2017)

westwall said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



Progressives like me?

Tell me how I am like Joseph Stalin- a man raised to be Christian and whose mother wanted him to be a priest?

Tell me how I am like Adolf Hitler- another man raised in the Christian faith and who belonged to the Catholic Church until his death.

Please enlighten me. I am fascinated to find how I am like them in your opinion.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 28, 2017)

westwall said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



I do love it when Christians like to proclaim "But we didn't murder as many millions as you did!"


----------



## Gracie (Aug 28, 2017)

*Is It Wrong to Think Homosexuality is a Sin?*
*If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?*

No.
Yes.


----------



## westwall (Aug 28, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...








I'm not a christian dumb ass.  If anything I'm a pagan seeing's how my wife is Wiccan.  I am however a student of history so have read far more about what scum, like the progressives, have done compared to the religious nutters of old.  Like I said cupcake, you know so little it is truly amazing.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 28, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think?
> ...


Yet many of those same Christians have little problem with masturbation and adultery compared to homosexuality even though the Scriptures treat them the same. 

Let's be clear; I'm straight.  I was also an atheist from about 13 to 17 until I had a NDE.  I just question people who cherry-pick from the Bible to suit their personal agendas, not God's nor Jesus.


----------



## Tommy Tainant (Aug 28, 2017)

westwall said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think?
> ...


Fuck me,you sound human.


----------



## Dragonlady (Aug 28, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder why religious people put so much of their energy into gay issues?  There are much worse sins out there.  If there is a god, I doubt he cares if two men or two women decide to be together in the "biblical sense."  (heh-heh!)
> ...



These seems to be an American thing. Gay marriage was legalized in Canada more than 10 years ago and by and large, the general public yawned. There was some concern about increased health insurance costs for gay families but that was it. 

By the same token, the Catholic Church in Canada pays health taxes which fund birth control and abortions with nary a whisper. In the US the Church filed suit to prevent them from purchasing health insurance which pays for birth control. 

Americans make a huge fucking deal about every little thing.


----------



## xotoxi (Aug 28, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> I think part of the problem too is that it is felt if it's legal we need to personally be ok with it....this goes for any law .... Just as it's frustrating for Christians that others don't feel as they do, because in their mind, if we all felt and believed as they do it would be a better world, well, Progressives feel the same way...



It's legal for women in the United States to go outside of the house without their husband and without their heads covered.  This may not be okay with many Muslims, but the progressives feel it would be a better world for women to be given these extra-special rights.


----------



## BreezeWood (Aug 28, 2017)

westwall said:


> Christians haven't been murderous swine on a grand scale for _*two hundred years*_. Progressive governments on the other hand have managed to murder orders of magnitude more people in less than 125 years, than all of the various religions have managed to murder over the last two THOUSAND years. Quite a group you associate with there, sport.




westwalls no.s, christian murdering swine - 200 years from 400 AD (4th century) to 2017 = *1417 years* - westwalls, murdering progressives, _*125 years*_ ...

the proof isn't the number of people slain but for how long the _injustice_ has continued that matters and for christians / (desert religions) their reign has continued uninterrupted from their beginning to the present day without the least amount of remorse or initiative to correct their errors.

westwalls progressives are nowhere today to be found.


----------



## westwall (Aug 28, 2017)

BreezeWood said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Christians haven't been murderous swine on a grand scale for _*two hundred years*_. Progressive governments on the other hand have managed to murder orders of magnitude more people in less than 125 years, than all of the various religions have managed to murder over the last two THOUSAND years. Quite a group you associate with there, sport.
> ...








Sure they are.  Pol Pot and his favored defender chomskey are excellent examples of modern day progressives.  You need to read more silly boy.


----------



## LittleNipper (Aug 28, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...


I'm sorry but Jesus also stated that as He was hated, so too, His followers would be hated for their righteousness. When the owners of photography studios, bed and breakfasts, and bakeries are faced with exorbitant fines simply because they reject Homosexuality as a bases for marriage on the grounds of their CHRISTIAN CONVICTIONS, one can only imagine that there is enough judgement originating from many directions, and not all of it is biblically inspired. Where is the freedom of religion? Where is the tolerance of Christian ideals?


----------



## frigidweirdo (Aug 28, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?



Actually the worst thing is this.

The Bible says things about Homosexuality, and this means that homosexuals shouldn't be considered first class citizens.

The Bible also says things about divorce and many other things, yet the religious people seem to ignore this.


----------



## Marion Morrison (Aug 28, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



We're also way freer than Socialist Canada,aye?


----------



## BreezeWood (Aug 28, 2017)

westwall said:


> BreezeWood said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


.



westwall said:


> Sure they are. Pol Pot and his favored defender chomskey are excellent examples of modern day progressives. You need to read more silly boy.



_*
...are excellent examples of modern day progressives.  .*_


hey dummy, are they still alive,  - did they die of natural cause ...




> Already enfeebled from malaria, Pol Pot had become seriously ill in recent months while under house arrest by some of his former allies. In the last two weeks he was encircled by the Cambodian Government Army and had retreated farther into the jungle. His wife said he died in his sleep.
> 
> ... He concluded that "Pol Pot died of a lethal dose of a combination of Valium and chloroquine, Ta Mok's assertion that "no one poisoned him" encouraged speculation that this was exactly what had happened. Thus some sources state that he was murdered by his own colleagues.




mr. librarian, what about the phony 4th century book, has it ever been modified by any means other than persecution and bloodshed ... have they ever been brought to justice for their crimes. even afterwards.


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## LittleNipper (Aug 28, 2017)

frigidweirdo said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think?
> ...


Everyone does not ignore this --- though I'm sure homosexuals do.


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## frigidweirdo (Aug 28, 2017)

LittleNipper said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



Well, you find me someone who thinks gay marriage is bad and will protest against this, and will do the same for divorcees too. I'm sure they're out there.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

xotoxi said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > I think part of the problem too is that it is felt if it's legal we need to personally be ok with it....this goes for any law .... Just as it's frustrating for Christians that others don't feel as they do, because in their mind, if we all felt and believed as they do it would be a better world, well, Progressives feel the same way...
> ...


Yet they can't go bare breasted while men can. 

While there are Muslim countries requiring women cover their heads, for most it's an option.  Besides Muslims, there are many in the US where both men and women choose to cover their heads just like the Bible says.


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Yet they can't go bare breasted while men can



Why would any woman want to go around bare breasted?  As if men are not horn dogs enough while we are dressed....


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

frigidweirdo said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> > frigidweirdo said:
> ...



Also, adulterers don't have their own flag and run around announcing it


----------



## Gracie (Aug 29, 2017)

I never understood the fascination that men have with breasts.


----------



## Gracie (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> > LittleNipper said:
> ...


neither do heterosexuals.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Yet they can't go bare breasted while men can
> ...


1) It's a choice, not a requirement.  Women don't have the choice.  Just another example of women having less rights than men.

2) A little over a century ago, the sight of a woman's ankle under a long dress was a turn on for "horn dogs".   Women go bare breasted on Euro beaches.....and Miami's South Beach.  Not a big deal except to the religious-based oppressors.


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Boss said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



I believe there is a difference between 'legal marriage' and 'religious marriage'.  Some people just want the benefits from marriage (economic) while others want to make a vow to each other, their families, and their God if they so believe or choose AND have the legal advantages of marriage.

To me they can be two different things.  The government doesn't care if you love each other or anything like that.... it's just a job to do.... another paper to file....


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> > LittleNipper said:
> ...


Yes they do, it's called "trophy wives".


----------



## Skull Pilot (Aug 29, 2017)

Why do you care if someone else is homosexual?


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



True, was talking about this with my husband the other day, how African tribes etc., the men don't view breasts as sexual at all, so, 'tis true....


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## Moonglow (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Yet they can't go bare breasted while men can
> ...


Maybe men would not if the breasts were bared and it was not a taboo item?


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 29, 2017)

Gracie said:


> I never understood the fascination that men have with breasts.


It's because they are hidden and it takes us back to those old days...


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> Why do you care if someone else is homosexual?



I don't.  But I care that people who believe in a religion that believes it is sinful and destructive are chastised or criticized for it.


----------



## Gracie (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Boss said:
> ...


Yes, I want gays to have the same RIGHTS as a husband and wife but not under Gods law of man and woman SPIRITUALLY. Give them rights with MANS law so they are not cut off from those they love with things they bought and shared together as a couple. Just don't call it marriage. It isn't. Its a civil RIGHT.  And should be. But also not force people of different faiths to be pc and say oh sure its ok when to them..its not.

That probably didn't make sense. It's the wee hours and my brain is shutting down. It made sense to me, so....there ya go!


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Why do you care if someone else is homosexual?
> ...


You poor things, maybe tolerance would be a nice thing also, like Jesus taught, instead of homophobes which authored parts of the Bible...


----------



## Gracie (Aug 29, 2017)

Moonglow said:


> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> > I never understood the fascination that men have with breasts.
> ...


Pshaw, my friend. You will make me turn my ankle and swoon.


----------



## frigidweirdo (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> > LittleNipper said:
> ...



So what? Also adulterers don't get treated badly by society, treated like second class citizens, and also adulterers weren't born as adulterers. They had a choice. 

But then you have a problem with people who try and gain an identity huh?


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 29, 2017)

Gracie said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > Gracie said:
> ...


Post haste..


----------



## Skull Pilot (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Why do you care if someone else is homosexual?
> ...


They should be criticized for it.

After all doesn't the bible have a saying judge not lest ye be judged?

Or how about the age old wisdom of do unto others.... If people criticize and discriminate others shouldn't they themselves be criticized and discriminated against?


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

Moonglow said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...



Eh, please explain how I am intolerant.  Thanks!


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Boss said:
> ...


Agreed.  Religious marriage is protected from government interference by the First Amendment.  However, the 1138 Federal laws, tax breaks and other benefits provided by the Feds for married couples is a 14th Amendment issue.


----------



## Gracie (Aug 29, 2017)

Moonglow said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...


Tolerance needs to be shown on ALL sides. Like, not sue if someone doesn't wanna bake a cake with two grooms on it. Instead of suing and FORCING them, go to a damn baker that wants their money! Common sense.


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

frigidweirdo said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > frigidweirdo said:
> ...



I bet they would be if they ran around bragging about it and carrying a "cheaters flag"!


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...



they don't dislike gay people, they feel the lifestyle is counter productive to Godly living and a healthy community.  their opinion.... which they have a right to


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

frigidweirdo said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > frigidweirdo said:
> ...


They used to be.   It wasn't that long ago that adultery would ruin a man's career.  Now they run _as_ adulterers.  Go figure.


----------



## frigidweirdo (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



You bet they would be what? Born like it?


----------



## Skull Pilot (Aug 29, 2017)

Gracie said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



Tell me which is against our current laws?

Denying service or suing those that illegally deny service

We have these things called public accommodation laws and business are bound to follow them


----------



## Gracie (Aug 29, 2017)

Moonglow said:


> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...


----------



## Skull Pilot (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



They have a right to think whatever they want the problem is they don't just think it.  They act on their prejudices.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


Yet the Bible equally condemns adultery, blasphemy and several other sins/crimes.  Why do those now get a pass, but homosexuality doesn't?


----------



## Gracie (Aug 29, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...


Not in my book or in MY store. I pay the damn rent. I pay for the overhead. I have the right to refuse service to anyone. Period. And that is exactly how I ran my store.


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

frigidweirdo said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > frigidweirdo said:
> ...



I bet they would be treated badly and people would protest against them.... but even today, people are not like Europeans yet, where it's acceptable to have a "side" mate...


----------



## frigidweirdo (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



What?


----------



## Gracie (Aug 29, 2017)

Its a slippery slope. What if a muslim goes in a restaurant and demands they serve* no bacon or pork*? Is the restaurant to comply?


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...



they don't get a pass, it's just not in the news.... but sermons are preached on these things as well.... homosexuality is the "sin of the day" ...


----------



## Skull Pilot (Aug 29, 2017)

Gracie said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Gracie said:
> ...



So you got away with violating our laws count yourself lucky.

And you may have the right to refuse service but you do not have the right to do so simply because of sex, race, religious affiliation or sexual orientation and it's up to you to prove your reason for denying service if you are sued because of it


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

frigidweirdo said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > frigidweirdo said:
> ...



Actually, people ARE born as adulterers, we are not monogamous by nature.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Aug 29, 2017)

Gracie said:


> Its a slippery slope. What if a muslim goes in a restaurant and demands they serve* no bacon or pork*? Is the restaurant to comply?



Service is not being denied to the Muslims because of their religion

THAT is the difference


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

Gracie said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


Secular law is all we can, and should, give anyone.  Let God judge from there.  The whole "render unto Caesar...." thing.


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


You care for only half the involved parties. I understand that religious folks have their hang-ups just like homersexuals yet it is no reason to ostracise and exile the opposition..Notr is it a reason to make either a crime, it is simply a fact that some humans have perceptions that are not the same as others and it shouldn't be a sin or against the law for either as long as no one is getting hurt or infringing on other people's right to exist..


----------



## Skull Pilot (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


And we are no longer ruled by our nature as you put it.  We are in control of our actions.  One can choose to be monogamous


----------



## Taz (Aug 29, 2017)

If god created the universe and everything in it, then god created homosexuality. Get over it all you homophobes, god wanted it that way. Plus, he kicked Adam out of Eden for banging the woman. Now how gay is that?


----------



## Gracie (Aug 29, 2017)

Anyone know of any news stories of a christian going into a muslim cafe and demanding sausage or pork chops and when told they do not serve that and are refused, then SUE that cafe? I haven't heard of such a thing.


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


There is that perception thing, not everyone perceives  life in the same manner..One should be free to live it the way they perceive it...


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

Moonglow said:


> You care for only half the involved parties



What?  Which "half"?  You think I don't like homosexuals?


----------



## Skull Pilot (Aug 29, 2017)

Gracie said:


> Anyone know of any news stories of a christian going into a muslim cafe and demanding sausage or pork chops and when told they do not serve that and are refused, then SUE that cafe? I haven't heard of such a thing.


Again they are not being denied service.  They could order anything else on the menu


----------



## Gracie (Aug 29, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...


I got away with it because I had no schmucks come in my store.


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > frigidweirdo said:
> ...



One can also choose to abstain from sex with the same sex.
We all have sexual urges of varying kinds.
I'm not saying someone that is attracted to the same sex SHOULD abstain.
I'm saying that people who practice a religion that feels it is ungodly or counter-productive to society has the right to feel that way and express it.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Aug 29, 2017)

Gracie said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Gracie said:
> ...



Like I said count yourself lucky.  And is it my understanding that you think gay people are all schmucks?


----------



## Gracie (Aug 29, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone know of any news stories of a christian going into a muslim cafe and demanding sausage or pork chops and when told they do not serve that and are refused, then SUE that cafe? I haven't heard of such a thing.
> ...


Those bakers didn't deny service either. They said they would not bake a cake with two grooms on it, OR cater the wedding. Instead of saying ok and going to a baker that would love their business, they FORCED the baker to comply by SUING them. Now who was being intolerant?


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 29, 2017)

Gracie said:


> Anyone know of any news stories of a christian going into a muslim cafe and demanding sausage or pork chops and when told they do not serve that and are refused, then SUE that cafe? I haven't heard of such a thing.


There is no shortage of frivolous lawsuits brought on by people looking to make  a small pile of dough at someone else's expense..When rich folks buy out a broken man's possessions in hard times that is not taking advantage of the situation, it's getting a good deal...


----------



## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

Moonglow said:


> ... it shouldn't be a sin or against the law for either as long as no one is getting hurt or infringing on other people's right to exist..



I'll leave it to God to decide what is a sin, but I basically agree with you on the rest.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



They can feel and say whatever they want.  It's the acting on their prejudices that run afoul of the law


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > frigidweirdo said:
> ...



You're joking right?  How many people actually stay monogamous...?  Not many, and it's not cause they are assholes....


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > You care for only half the involved parties
> ...


How well do you like them?


----------



## Taz (Aug 29, 2017)

Gracie said:


> Anyone know of any news stories of a christian going into a muslim cafe and demanding sausage or pork chops and when told they do not serve that and are refused, then SUE that cafe? I haven't heard of such a thing.


It's not a human right to stick a sausage in your mouth. In your case, it's only an obsession to stick sausages in your mouth.


----------



## Gracie (Aug 29, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...


Reread what I wrote. Or do I have to repost it? Very well. I will repost it. I am a fag hag. Hello? LOVE gays. Just don't agree with what they do but I still love them and consider them friends. They love me too. They just don't like my bitchiness I exhibit from time to time..and my persnicketyness. 
AND, I want them to have the SAME RIGHTS married couple have. Just don't DEMAND it be called a marriage. Its a civil union contract that protects them. THAT is being TOLERANT.


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


So you admit to you know, doing it...


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...



They don't like the law.  they have a right to voice that as well.
And if they break a law, well, that's their choice as well, they would suffer the consequences...


----------



## Skull Pilot (Aug 29, 2017)

Gracie said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Gracie said:
> ...



They did deny service.  They wouldn't even bake the cake if the gay couple supplied the top ornament


----------



## Skull Pilot (Aug 29, 2017)

Gracie said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Gracie said:
> ...



IGDAF if you're gay or not


----------



## Taz (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


I banged enough broads before I met my wife, who is beautiful, so get a man who has already sowed his oats before trying to settle down with him.


----------



## Gracie (Aug 29, 2017)

Taz said:


> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone know of any news stories of a christian going into a muslim cafe and demanding sausage or pork chops and when told they do not serve that and are refused, then SUE that cafe? I haven't heard of such a thing.
> ...


Now you are just being a dick. Or a sausage. Whatever. 
Done with this. You're going to DEMAND I think as you do. Sorry, but not sorry. I will say and think as I wish and all the berating on your end will not change that fact.


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

Moonglow said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...



.. shush!


----------



## Skull Pilot (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



But they think because of their backwards religious views they should be allowed to break the laws


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

Taz said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...



women cheat too, just sayin'


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


I've shucked oysters also..


----------



## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



I believe in God and I am frequently telling fellow believers to let secular society be secular.  If Adam wants to "marry" Steve at the local courthouse, it's ok with me.  I'm not affected in any way.  Why should I care?  Why should they care?  

I will add that supposedly free people should be free to discriminate.  If a bakery doesn't want to make a same-sex wedding cake, they should be free to deny service.


----------



## Gracie (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


Speak for yourself. Once you say I DO, you do. Period. If you want to fuck around against your vows, you are the asshole.


----------



## Taz (Aug 29, 2017)

Gracie said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > Gracie said:
> ...


You can think what you want, but you'll still be wrong.


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...



Some do... that was way too much stereotyping and overgeneralizing in one sentence.


----------



## Gracie (Aug 29, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...


According to YOUR beliefs, they are backwards religious. Do you not even see what you say???

Oy.

Goodnight.


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

Gracie said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...



I actually agree with that, I'm just saying we have not "outgrown" out nature to want to have sex than more than one person for life.  Many still do, and only the ones that MEAN their vows will keep them.


----------



## Taz (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


Not the good ones.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Aug 29, 2017)

Gracie said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



Yes my belief and I have the right to say that.  But I do not have the right to deny service to people simply because of their religious affiliation or their backwards beliefs

Get it?


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

Taz said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...



I'm just debating "we are not ruled by our nature"
If your nature is to be homosexual or someone who likes variety (or both), well either way, you can let your nature rule you or not.  Ultimately, it's all a choice.


----------



## Taz (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


Not all women's nature is to be a slut. You just got the bad luck of the draw.


----------



## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

Taz said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...



How is she a slut?


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


Disagreed on being born adulterer.  Marriage is a choice.  Violating those vows is a choice.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

Taz said:


> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone know of any news stories of a christian going into a muslim cafe and demanding sausage or pork chops and when told they do not serve that and are refused, then SUE that cafe? I haven't heard of such a thing.
> ...


If your fantasy is to have someone stick sausages in your mouth, then I support your right to have as big a sausagefest as your heart desires.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Gracie said:
> ...


Agreed on all points....although the "bakery" scenario can become complicated, I think there are ways to make everyone happy without trampling all over the rights of private citizens.


----------



## Taz (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


Did you see her denying it?


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## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

Taz said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...



Perhaps she didn't want to dignify your statement with a response.


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## Taz (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...


She rated that post as "funny". So she responded, just not to deny anything.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

Taz said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


No, but I didn't see you denying you're gay either.  Did you deny being a male prostitute giving blowjobs for a dollar at truck stops?


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## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

Taz said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...



Ok.


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



The "bakery scenario" is a farce
If it is a strict Christian bakery, its service should restrict service to all sins

Why produce a cake for a known adulterer or pregnant bride?
Both are sinful

Why is the only "sin" under consideration homosexuality?


----------



## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



All fair points.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...


So, besides wanting to set up an authoritarian Socialist state, you seek to force all religions to conform to your standards?  Unsurprising.

It's the private bakery's, boutique, store, shop, etc, choice.  There's better ways than dictatorship or force of law such as only giving small business loans and tax breaks to businesses which conform to a specific standard.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

Anyone besides me notice that Taz hasn't denied being a truck stop prostitute?


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## rightwinger (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



I expect religions not to be hypocritical in how they choose to enforce morality


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## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Consistency is important.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Interesting that you've set yourself up to interpret Christianity for all the world's 2 billion Christians.   

No doubt you'd outlaw a Christian from selling hot dogs and Shrimp Po'boys.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


There's more than 9,000 Christian denominations.  How do you plan to enforce "consistency"?  The Spanish Inquisition?

World Christian Database - Denominations
_The World Christian Database represents over 9,000 Christian denominations throughout the world. The data regarding denominations is reconciled against people groups and country of residence. Because of this, complex reports can be generated about people groups or countries based on hundreds of possible variables.

Major traditions represented:_

_Anglicans_
_Catholics_
_Independents_
_Marginals_
_Orthodox_
_Protestants

_
_Charismatics_
_Neocharismatics_
_Pentecostals_
_Each denomination is also coded by their membership of Christian World Communions and Christian councils at world, regional and national levels._


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## rightwinger (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



No, only for those who use their Christianity as a cover for their bigotry
Jesus does not want me to bake this cake


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


You should go to a church. Another problem is different denominations believe different things within the Christian belief system


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...


It's not the Homosexuality, it's the marriage


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > frigidweirdo said:
> ...


More born to desire many people


----------



## Skull Pilot (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



Of course it's the homosexuality.  These bigots don't care about sin other than the gay sin.

They will gladly make cakes for murderers, adulterers, thieves,  rapists, etc.  but if you're gay no way


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


So, besides setting yourself up to rule on all things Christian, you claim the power of mind-reading too.  Fascinating how the Socialist Elite have so many powers.   Too bad they can never get a country to work under Socialism.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Link?


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


A natural part of human sexuality, but again, adultery has to do with violating marriage vows, not promiscuity or fornication.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


He's an atheist and, like many militant atheists, he claims to be an expert on all religions, especially Christianity.


----------



## Luddly Neddite (Aug 29, 2017)

"Sin" is a weird and fictional tool invented to relieve the gullible from at least 10% of their money. Religion divides people into US and THEM.

People certainly have the right to voice their opinions - like I just did ^^^ - And my opinion is that what consenting adults do is their business and I have no right to try to stop it.




Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

Luddly Neddite said:


> "Sin" is a weird and fictional tool invented to relieve the gullible from at least 10% of their money. Religion divides people into US and THEM.
> 
> People certainly have the right to voice their opinions - like I just did ^^^ - And my opinion is that what consenting adults do is their business and I have no right to try to stop it.
> 
> ...


Awesome.  So what is your plan to stamp out religion where both Stalin and Mao failed?

The key point here isn't being able to voice an opinion, but to be able to live as one desires without an all-powerful government dictating what to believe, how to live and what to think.


----------



## Luddly Neddite (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Anyone besides me notice that Taz hasn't denied being a truck stop prostitute?




Why should he?

And why is it your business?

A while back, I tried to make peace with you and you responded in much the same way as you are here. You really are a nasty person.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com


----------



## Luddly Neddite (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > "Sin" is a weird and fictional tool invented to relieve the gullible from at least 10% of their money. Religion divides people into US and THEM.
> ...




"stamp out"?

I'm atheist and have no respect for organized religion but post a link to where I have ever even hinted that I want to "stamp out" religion.

I agree and have often said that within the limitation of "consensual adults", govt should have no power or say in our private and most intimate lives.

Marriage equality, abortion, suicide - MYOB


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


How many Christian churches accept adultry is not a sin


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



It doesn't take an expert to call out hypocrisy and bigotry


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone besides me notice that Taz hasn't denied being a truck stop prostitute?
> ...


For the same reason he called Bonzi a slut.  Get a fucking clue, Luddie.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


No, but it's fascinating when hypocrites and bigots are the ones doing the calling.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


All of them.  How many deny membership to repentant sinners regardless of the sin?


----------



## hobelim (Aug 29, 2017)

Luddly Neddite said:


> "stamp out"?
> 
> I'm atheist and have no respect for organized religion but post a link to where I have ever even hinted that I want to "stamp out" religion.



 It seems that whenever a point is made that exposes hypocrisy, deception or some other unpleasant fact about religion some prick always accuses you of being a commie trying to stamp it out,, never mind if the point made is the irrefutable truth.

Unscrupulous bastards who do despicable things in the dark always hate the person who turns on the lights....


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


What I mean is what they preach in church is more vast than what you see in the media. Adultery is a frequent topic in church


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


....because it's a sin.  Since gays are only about 2% of the population and straights are  about 96.5% of the population, plus humans are 100% of the population (  ) then adultery is obviously a bigger problem than homosexuality.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

hobelim said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > "stamp out"?
> ...


Agreed.  Especially if they are militant atheists who claim to know more about religion than any person who is religious.


----------



## hobelim (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> hobelim said:
> 
> 
> > Luddly Neddite said:
> ...




Militant? give me a break..

Most atheists do know more about other peoples religions than believers know about their own.

Believers don't like being schooled because its embarrassing. like a person suddenly realizing that the invisible clothes that they invested everything they had in were a sham and they have been prancing around in public completely naked for decades .

Its a simple as that.


----------



## Luddly Neddite (Aug 29, 2017)

hobelim said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > hobelim said:
> ...





I agree that most atheists ARE very knowledgeable about religion.

And as rightwinger  pointed out, it does not require the knowledge that @Divine Wind implies he has.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

hobelim said:


> ....*Most atheists do know more about other peoples religions than believers know about their own.*
> 
> Believers don't like being schooled because its embarrassing. like a person suddenly realizing that the invisible clothes that they invested everything they had in were a sham and they have been prancing around in public completely naked for decades .
> 
> Its a simple as that.


Called it!  ROFL

If you're so smart, what is my religion?


----------



## hobelim (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


 


You like to talk about sin?

Is it a sin, even adulterous,  to reject the truth when it comes to light in preference for what has been proven irrefutably to be a lie?


----------



## hobelim (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> hobelim said:
> 
> 
> > ....*Most atheists do know more about other peoples religions than believers know about their own.*
> ...


 

Obstinate stupidity.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

Luddly Neddite said:


> I agree that most atheists ARE very knowledgeable about religion.
> 
> And as rightwinger  pointed out, it does not require the knowledge that @Divine Wind implies he has.


Nice twist and attempt at a save, but your buddy already confirmed my post: 


hobelim said:


> Most atheists do know more about other peoples religions than believers know about their own.
> 
> Believers don't like being schooled because its embarrassing. like a person suddenly realizing that the invisible clothes that they invested everything they had in were a sham and they have been prancing around in public completely naked for decades .
> 
> Its a simple as that.



What knowledge are you claiming I have, other than the proved one about atheists being know-it-alls?


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

hobelim said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > hobelim said:
> ...


Translation:  _You're right, DW_.


Now school me in my religion, smart guy.  Let's see if you're as smart as you claim.


----------



## hobelim (Aug 29, 2017)

Luddly Neddite said:


> hobelim said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...




That special knowledge is a delusion that the measure of a persons faith is determined by their ability to openly profess a belief in the ridiculous with a straight face.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

hobelim said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > hobelim said:
> ...


Translation:  _DW caught me in a lie since I can't school him on his religion because I don't know what religion he is.  _

Awesome that you are so comfortable wallowing in what you _think_ you know. 

The bottom line here is that, despite what the know-it-alls think or believe, they can't legislate thoughts or people's beliefs.  If someone wants to believe adultery, homosexuality, pedophilia, bestiality, incest and masturbation are sins, that's their choice.  If atheists want to believe we should pass laws allowing all of those things, they can try, but most voters will be against them for obvious reasons.

Six in 10 Americans Would Say "Yes" to Muslim President


----------



## hobelim (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Awesome that you are so comfortable wallowing in what you _think_ you know.
> 
> The bottom line here is that, despite what the know-it-alls think or believe, they can't legislate thoughts or people's beliefs. If someone wants to believe adultery, homosexuality, pedophilia, bestiality, incest and masturbation are sins, that's their choice. If atheists want to believe we should pass laws allowing all of those things, they can try, but most voters will be against them for obvious reasons.




What are those obvious reasons if not the delusional beliefs that are contradicted by actual reality based on misinterpretations of ancient Jewish children's stories ?


Do you think it matters what religion you are when all religious beliefs devoid of logic, based on faith that requires a person to suspend disbelief,  are all  just religious flotsam from the confusion and superstitions of your gentile ancestors who knew nothing about Jewish thought, belief, traditional figurative language,  or literary techniques and expressions used to educate children?


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

hobelim said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > hobelim said:
> ...


I don't know about other religions but we were taught about other religions, so it was not hidden from us.  Not that it really matters


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > I agree that most atheists ARE very knowledgeable about religion.
> ...



How are atheists anymore "know it alls" than the religious folks?  Lol!


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> hobelim said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



Who is we?


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Religious people are like, you are a sinner.  Our holy book tells us so, so end of discussion.  Lol.


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > hobelim said:
> ...


Me and the people at my old church...I'm no longer a member there (Southern Baptist)


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Luddly Neddite said:
> ...


Oh, they are not.  What's hypocritical about them, and funny to boot, is that they think they are so superior when, in fact, they're just as obnoxious and idiotic as anyone else.

As I keep challenging them, they can't "school" me on my religion since they don't even know what it is.  LOL


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



Well, I think that at one time most atheists were religious folks or at least somewhat, who came to an epiphany or an awakening, like what is this shit?  Lol!


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

hobelim said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Awesome that you are so comfortable wallowing in what you _think_ you know.
> ...


Nice blanket whitewash and full load of bovine excrement.  Now prove your statements, sir...or have the spine to admit it's just your opinion. 

For the record, you don't have a fucking clue as to my religious beliefs and you're simply pulling the "ancient Jewish children's stories" out of your ass where the rest of your thoughts reside.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


Possibly.  I think it varies.  As mentioned before, I used to be an atheist...but outgrew it.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



I think it works the opposite for most people.  They outgrow the fear of religion that was pounded into their brains as small children, the fear of gods, all mostly superstitious beliefs from ancient times, IMO.


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## Pete7469 (Aug 29, 2017)

It's never wrong to think anything. It's acting on thoughts that may or may not be a problem.

Too many fucking people (cough... cough... bed... cough... wetters... cough...) seem to lack any capacity to think at all.

If anything is wrong it's the failure to think.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


Which is why I became an atheist; not the fear, but the non sequiturs pushed by Bible literalists in a world of science.   It's common among intelligent teenagers to lose faith.  What's less common is for those same intelligent people to not grow past both blind faith in a two thousand year old text (revised and edited by a group of white guys in 325AD) and the idea that there is nothing more to existence then what they see in front of their noses.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



I don't believe in gods.  I'm sure the Greeks believed in their gods just as much as Christians of today believe.  Whatever, as long as their beliefs don't infringe on anyone's rights, then they are free to believe as they choose.


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## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



That's


ChrisL said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



I take it you're one of those scientific types that believes the universe created itself and that life just magically appeared out of nowhere.  Am I right?


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



I'm not really a "scientific" type.  No.  I do believe in evolution though, yes.  There are mountains of evidence to support evolution.


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## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



Evolution doesn't explain how life originated, let alone the universe.  It's easier for you to believe that the universe created itself than it is to believe it was created by a super-intellect, right?  You're smug with arrogance yet you have as much or as little proof as anyone else as to how the universe and life came to be.  Step back; you're not that smart.


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## rightwinger (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



Evolution is a FACT
God is a Theory


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## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



Evolution has some holes in it.  But that's not really what we're discussing.  Does evolution explain how the universe came to be?  Does evolution explain how life came into existence.  The answer to both is - no.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



I'm just giving my opinion on the matter like anyone else.  I don't have to step back or do anything else for that matter.  Get over yourself.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



Yes.  The answer is yes.  An inconvenient truth for the religious peeps.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

The theory of evolution makes a lot more sense to me than some big angry man who lives in the sky.


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## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



You don't have a theory.  You just parrot mindless drivel that you've heard from your atheist masters.  Get back to me when you can form an independent thought.


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## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> The theory of evolution makes a lot more sense to me than some big angry man who lives in the sky.



How did evolution create the universe?


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



My thoughts are all my own, thank you very much.  I've given this subject MUCH thought since I was a child actually.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


Agreed, a thought that applies to atheists stamping out religions or other "fairy tales".


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## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Evolution explains how the universe came into existence?  LMAO!  Ok, no point in talking to a moron.


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > The theory of evolution makes a lot more sense to me than some big angry man who lives in the sky.
> ...



How did a god create the universe?  Since you seem to have all the answers.  How does a big angry man in the sky controlling things make more sense than a natural occurrence?


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



Stamping out?  Well, maybe some of the more militant ones.  Most atheists or agnostics would just like to have a rational discussion about the topic without the religious extremists going off the rails, accusing you of all kinds of ridiculous things.  Lol.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

I don't know.  I guess I must be possessed by the devil or just born evil or something.  Lol.    Or God just hates me maybe?  Oh wait, maybe it's all been a test from the mighty god for me to prove my worthiness?


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## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



You just said that evolution explains how the universe came into existence.  Now you don't want to talk about it.  You're intellectually lazy, narrow-minded and disingenuous.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



Of course it explains everything that came into being, from the Big Bang theory to how human beings evolved.  Didn't you learn any of these things in school?


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



Why so nasty anyways?  I thought you religious folks were supposed to be nice and warm and welcoming and want to show us how "good" you all are?    Nope, you may talk the talk but you certainly don't walk to walk, so let's talk about being disingenuous?  Shall we?


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## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



You're not interested in a "rationale" discussion.  You're the one that sounds like a crazy soon, claiming evolution explains how the universe came to be and then, when called on it, you slither out of the conversation.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



So do tell.  How did the universe come into existence?


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



What is a crazy soon?


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## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



You lack the intellectual acumen necessary for an interesting conversation.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



Such hatefulness.  The meek shall inherit the world!


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## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



You're a liar and a coward.


----------



## Jim jones (Aug 29, 2017)

RodISHI said:


> People need to be left alone to make their own choices in the matter. If they sin or are an abomination in the lord's sight that is between their god(s) and themselves. To attempt to force others find it acceptable is as bad as trying to get someone else to accept that drug addiction, alcoholism, prostitution and all the other traps that humans can fall into is good for you and all fine and dandy.
> 
> I think the open sexual society in your face shit is disgusting regardless of who is doing it.


Yea they will just go to hell and drown in a lake of fire.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


No one knows.  There was the Big Bang and everything sprang from that moment on.  Why the Big Bang came to be is a mystery just like it's a mystery if there is anything outside of the Universe or multiverses.


----------



## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



You're going to have to really dumb it down a lot better than this for that dingbat to understand you.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


Scroll up; what rightwinger and hobelim were proposing wasn't any more rational discussion than K9Buck calling you a liar and a coward.


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



How so?  I've asked you several times now to explain your theory about how the universe and human beings, etc., were created, but all you've done is call me stupid, a liar and a coward.  Why all the name calling?  Do you claim to be a good representation of your religion?  Now, I'm still waiting for your own explanation about how the world came to be since you seem to say that those of us who believe in evolution are "stupid" "cowards" and "liars."


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## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


Why the anger and hate?  She's just voicing an opinion without being a complete ass like some further up the thread? 

WWJD?


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



So?  I am trying to have a discussion here.  What does someone else's behavior have to do with me?


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



I can understand him perfectly, thanks.  Now, perhaps you want to add to this discussion other than insulting other people like a 12-year-old child?


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## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


More correctly, God is a belief.  Mankind has a physical aspect, a mental aspect and a spiritual aspect.  Much of the former two fit within the realm of the Natural Universe but the spiritual aspect, although most people have it, is much fuzzier since it doesn't fit within the Natural Universe.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

And you see?  This is a perfect example of what I said earlier about trying to have a discussion about religion or your own views about religion with a religious person.  They are OUT of control, mean, rude, and totally devoid of adding much to their argument.  Some great debate tactic.  This is why many younger generations of people are moving away from religion.  They can see the hypocrisy as easy as anyone else.


----------



## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



You've hurled countless insults at believers and when questioned you dishonestly claimed that evolution explains how the universe came into existence and, when called on it, you didn't want to talk about it.  If you can laugh at others for believing that a super-intellect created the universe, then I can laugh at you for believing that the universe created itself.


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



When have I done this?  YOu are delusional.


----------



## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> And you see?  This is a perfect example of what I said earlier about trying to have a discussion about religion or your own views about religion with a religious person.  They are OUT of control, mean, rude, and totally devoid of adding much to their argument.  Some great debate tactic.  This is why many younger generations of people are moving away from religion.  They can see the hypocrisy as easy as anyone else.



Cry some more.  You were making below-the-belt remarks about believers before I ever confronted you for your mindless, idiotic beliefs.  That's typical of libtards like you.  You dish it out and when it gets returned in kind, you turn into a whiny ****.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


You're the one who made the statement "_Most atheists or agnostics would just like to have a rational discussion_ ".  I was simply challenging with evidence.  If you wanted it to be only you, then perhaps rephrasing it to _"I'd_ just like to have a rational discussion".


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## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



You're a fucking liar.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...


What part of the Bible is that from?


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



Again, I will ask.  What have I lied about?  I don't believe in gods.  I believe in evolution.  There are no lies there.


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



So?  What is your theory about how the universe was created?  Still waiting for you to add something or anything to this discussion?


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



Must be a troll.  Lol.  There are a lot of weird stalker trolls online.


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > And you see?  This is a perfect example of what I said earlier about trying to have a discussion about religion or your own views about religion with a religious person.  They are OUT of control, mean, rude, and totally devoid of adding much to their argument.  Some great debate tactic.  This is why many younger generations of people are moving away from religion.  They can see the hypocrisy as easy as anyone else.
> ...



Where did this happen?  I'm not a liberal either.  This just shows that you know ZERO about what you are speaking.  You should shut up before you make an even bigger fool of yourself, tough guy.    Are you going to threaten to beat me up next?


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## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

No, I'm just not going to argue any further with a FOOL.  Knock yourself out.


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> No, I'm just not going to argue any further with a FOOL.  Knock yourself out.



But you have made absolutely NO argument so far.  All you've done is call me names.  What argument are you making?  None that I can see.


----------



## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



She said that evolution explains how the universe came into existence.  That is a lie.


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> No, I'm just not going to argue any further with a FOOL.  Knock yourself out.



Good riddance to bad smelling rubbish.  You won't be missed, that is for SURE.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...


More of a misunderstanding.  That still doesn't explain why a self-avowed Christian would spread hate and call someone a fucking liar.

As for Evolution:  An all powerful God can certainly cause the Big Bang almost 14 Billion years ago and know what fruit it would bear.


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



A bad person.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...


Certainly very angry.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

westwall said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



Okay- i believe you are not a christian dumb ass.

Tell me more about how this progressive scum- and the millions he murdered- or wanted to murder. 





You are apparently a 'partisan' student of history who has read a carefully filtered history certain not to upset your delicate sensibilities.


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



I think it was a natural occurrence.  Nature is an amazing thing.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...


From whence did the Universe come?


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



Probably just a cranky old man.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

westwall said:


> BreezeWood said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



Tell us more about how Pol Pot is like President Obama silly snowflake.


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



I can't say, but I don't think it has anything to do with gods.    Just because you can't explain something, that doesn't automatically attribute it to the work of Gods, as we have learned over our many years of existence.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...



Still waiting for westwall to explain how I am like Joseph Stalin and Adolf Hitler.

Perhaps this is too big of a challenge.....


----------



## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



It created itself.  

Signed,

A rationale, logically thinking atheist


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## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

LittleNipper said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > LittleNipper said:
> ...



Christians were instructed in the New Testament to follow the law.

Very explicitly- yet nowhere in the Bible does it tell Christians not to serve homosexuals.

Yet- Christian disobey the very explicit guidance of the Bible- and have chosen to break the law- in the name of Christianity.

Why do you believe Christians should be exempt from the law?

* Romans 13New Century Version (NCV)*
*Christians Should Obey the Law*
13 All of you must yield to the government rulers. No one rules unless God has given him the power to rule, and no one rules now without that power from God.  2 So those who are against the government are really against what God has commanded. And they will bring punishment on themselves. 3 Those who do right do not have to fear the rulers; only those who do wrong fear them. Do you want to be unafraid of the rulers? Then do what is right, and they will praise you. 4 The ruler is God’s servant to help you. But if you do wrong, then be afraid. He has the power to punish; he is God’s servant to punish those who do wrong. 5 So you must yield to the government, not only because you might be punished, but because you know it is right.


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## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

LittleNipper said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



President Trump
Adulterer.
Married and divorced twice. 

Your dear leader ignored this- and you voted for him.


----------



## hobelim (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> hobelim said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...




What I am talking about isn't really about what you believed or don't believe. If you read a story where a talking serpent is introduced and don't immediately understand that it is a metaphor for a type of human being but instead imagine an invisible disembodied malevolent entity from another dimension speaking through a snake or dismiss the entire thing as some imaginary mythological creature the teaching is just as effectively kept from your comprehension as if was locked in a vault and buried 12 feet under a vast and featureless field.

so it doesn't matter at all what you believe about it if what you believe or don't believe is't even what the story is about.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

Gracie said:


> I never understood the fascination that men have with breasts.



its not to understand....its to enjoy.......


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## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Boss said:
> ...



I agree with you. That wasn't the point of my post which was a response to someone else- but I agree with you.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


LOL   Yes, that does seem to be the prevailing atheist theory although a secondary one is "It just popped into existence on its own just like presents under the Christmas tree".


----------



## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> > frigidweirdo said:
> ...



And the alternative was Hillary "The Abortionist" Clinton who should have been indicted but skated under Barry and who had been selling out the country for years.  Trump was a no-brainer choice.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

hobelim said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > hobelim said:
> ...


Written like a 17 year old soon-to-be Senior in High School.  I'm sure you know it all, kid.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

Gracie said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...



No one is forcing any religion to marry anyone that they don't want to marry. Nor is anyone forcing any religion to say that homosexuality is okay- or that adultery is okay.

But yes- we will call it marriage- since that is what we call it when two people are legally joined together.


----------



## RodISHI (Aug 29, 2017)

Jim jones said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > People need to be left alone to make their own choices in the matter. If they sin or are an abomination in the lord's sight that is between their god(s) and themselves. To attempt to force others find it acceptable is as bad as trying to get someone else to accept that drug addiction, alcoholism, prostitution and all the other traps that humans can fall into is good for you and all fine and dandy.
> ...


I am sure if the Lord desires to save them from their self destruction and self subjection HE can do it.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

frigidweirdo said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > frigidweirdo said:
> ...



There was a time when adulterers- heck even divorced people were treated badly by society. 

Now we elect them as President.


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## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > LittleNipper said:
> ...



So you elected Donald "The Abortionist" Trump- who has been selling out the United States for years.

Trump was certainly a no-brainer for those with no brains.


----------



## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



Nothing happens in our universe without something else causing it to happen.  Something had to come first.  I believe it points to a power that is beyond our universe and which is not bound by it.  That would be our creator.  I'd like to believe that the universe created itself and that life just spontaneously appeared out of nowhere but, I just don't have the faith.


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



Well, a faithful spouse doesn't necessarily mean a person will be good at the job either.  Faithfulness is a requirement of marriage and perhaps even friendship but not of politicians, I suppose.


----------



## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



Trump certainly doesn't have the moral fiber of the Clintons.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

Gracie said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



How many people have been 'sued' for refusing to cater a homosexual wedding? 1? 5? 

How many homosexuals have been refused the right to marry? 

Thousands.

Remember- the only reason that homosexuals can marry is because they went to court to be able to enjoy that right. 

There was no 'tolerance' in the majority of states.


----------



## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...



Has Slick Willie given any more $500K speeches lately and, if not, why not?


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

I suppose faithfulness does reflect on the overall integrity and trustworthiness of the individual in some cases though.  I think there are some reasons why people may cheat on their spouses (even though they should be honest with their spouse about their feelings or even break off the relationship even if on a temporary basis), but for others they are just dogs.  Lol.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



Well not all of them dislike gay people- but reading the posters here at USMB it is quite clear that a sizable portion despise homosexuals.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

Gracie said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Gracie said:
> ...



And you could get prosecuted for refusing to serve Christians or Muslims because of their faith- and you could get prosecuted for refusing to serve African Americans or Chinese for the color of their skin- or refusing to serve women because of their gender.

And in a few states and communities- for refusing to serve a homosexual because of his or her sexual orientation.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

Gracie said:


> Its a slippery slope. What if a muslim goes in a restaurant and demands they serve* no bacon or pork*? Is the restaurant to comply?



You really need to learn how public accommodation laws work.

You can't refuse to serve someone because of their religion, or their race, or their gender, or their national origin. In some communities you can't refuse to serve someone because of their sexual orientation or because of their military status.

That is it. Not going out and providing services or product you don't normally provide. 

Its not complicated- no more complicated than not refusing to rent to African Americans.


----------



## hobelim (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> hobelim said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


  LOL...

another example of divine wind?

oozing bile and giving off putrid smells?


Was it something I said?

..lol....


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

Gracie said:


> Anyone know of any news stories of a christian going into a muslim cafe and demanding sausage or pork chops and when told they do not serve that and are refused, then SUE that cafe? I haven't heard of such a thing.



You haven't because it would be incredibly stupid and ignorant.


----------



## RodISHI (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...


You always appear so confused. You do not seem to know the difference between rejection of someone who has determined to put themselves into that situation and hatred. The two words are very different.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > frigidweirdo said:
> ...



I agree frankly- I don't care that Trump is an adulterer, or has been married three times.

I do find it rather hypocritical of anyone who opposes gay marriage and also voted for Trump though- since Jesus is very clear in the Bible on adultery and divorce and remarriage.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

hobelim said:


> another example of divine wind?
> 
> oozing bile and giving off putrid smells?
> 
> ...


ROFL  

1) You don't have a clue as to the origin of my username.

2) Thanks for proving my previous point about your posts being like a 17 year old's.


----------



## Jim jones (Aug 29, 2017)

RodISHI said:


> Jim jones said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...


The Bible is very specific my friend.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

Gracie said:


> [
> AND, I want them to have the SAME RIGHTS married couple have. Just don't DEMAND it be called a marriage. Its a civil union contract that protects them. THAT is being TOLERANT.



Americans don't have a right to a civil union. And Christians fought very hard to prevent gays from even having that alternative to legal marriage- look at Georgia's anti-gay marriage law- it specifically denied recognition of civil unions.

But Americans do have a right to a legal marriage. So gays fought for their right- and eventually the courts came through for them- just as they had done before in Loving v. Virginia.


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## RodISHI (Aug 29, 2017)

Jim jones said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Jim jones said:
> ...


Yes it is and it is the Lord that chooses the time that he will awaken that adam "human" that is asleep in the garden of his own pleasure.


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## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...



Was it hypocritical for believers to vote for Hillary?


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


Agreed in principle, which is why I didn't vote for either Trump or Clinton; both are scumbag liars.  OTOH, most people voted for the two most viable candidates AKA "lesser of two evils" since 1) they felt it was a civic duty to vote and 2) those were the party choices.


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## hobelim (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> hobelim said:
> 
> 
> > another example of divine wind?
> ...


  the post wasn't even directed to you. It was to Bonzi. Why did you feel a need to respond like you did if not because of your own immaturity when being schooled?


nice try


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## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

Jim jones said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Jim jones said:
> ...



The Bible is very specific about a few things. About homosexuals- not so much.

If you go by the Old Testament- well we should be stoning adulterers....If you go by the New Testament- our President is and continues to be an adulterer since he is married to his third wife.


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



Well, the choices were poor.  A corrupt politician with a liberal agenda who wants to deny me one of my constitutional rights (the 2nd amendment) and who would appoint Supreme Court justices to accomplish those goals, or a clown like reality TV show actor/billionaire extraordinaire.  Lol!  I chose Trump.  He wasn't threatening to take something away from me, and I agreed with a lot of what he said during his campaign.  He also talked about what he was going to do for the country instead of specific little groups, like Hillary focused on so much.  She tried to run her campaign using her old vagina basically.


----------



## RodISHI (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Jim jones said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...


Apparently you have failed in comprehension as even the Old Testament tells us that it is by His spirit. Perhaps people should do some more studying and prayer before applying their own precepts to the word.


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Jim jones said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...



And what about the one getting a BJ in the oval office from an intern, who had no plans of ever leaving his wife to start up a life with said intern?!


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



Does it have to be valid?  Of course not

We don't know is a legitimate response. Just because we do not know all the details does nothing to prove.....since you don't know, that proves there must be a God


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



Evolution doesn't explain how life originated- just how life as it currently exist came to be.

As an atheist- I don't feel a need to have faith on how life came into being or how the universe came into being- though I find the current scientific theories more plausible- and fitting the known evidence better than any religious creation myths.


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



I feel the same.  It just makes a lot more sense to me.


----------



## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Dude, you're free to believe that the universe came into existence because of evolution.  I don't share that belief, but that doesn't matter.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



LOL- you are an angry little person. 

Tell us more about your fairy in the sky and how you believe he created the universe.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > The theory of evolution makes a lot more sense to me than some big angry man who lives in the sky.
> ...



Why do you ask?


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



He said "let there be light!" and Poof!  Der it is.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



One angry little person......


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



Matter cannot be created or destroyed.....meaning it always existed
The elements in the periodic table have always been the same
The basic building blocks of the universe


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



Apparently an 'interesting conversation with him/her means mindlessly accepting whatever he/she posts. FYI- appreciate your comments in this thread.


----------



## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



So believing that the universe created itself is scientific and believing that a higher power created the universe is a myth.  LOL.  Ok.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Jim jones said:
> ...



Well according to Christians, any adultery can be forgiven if the the transgressor seeks forgiveness. Of course not being a Christian, that wasn't an issue for me when I voted for Bill

But according to the New Testament- Trump can't seek forgiveness for his ongoing adultery with this third wife- because he lives a life of adultery right now.


----------



## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



So the universe wasn't created, it's just always been?


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



I will repeat what i believe

As an atheist- I don't feel a need to have faith on how life came into being or how the universe came into being- though I find the current scientific theories more plausible- and fitting the known evidence better than any religious creation myths.

If you think that your creation myth better fits the known evidence for the creation of the universe- I really don't care.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > And you see?  This is a perfect example of what I said earlier about trying to have a discussion about religion or your own views about religion with a religious person.  They are OUT of control, mean, rude, and totally devoid of adding much to their argument.  Some great debate tactic.  This is why many younger generations of people are moving away from religion.  They can see the hypocrisy as easy as anyone else.
> ...



LOL- your posts have been largely insult ridden tirades- while Chris has been posting pretty much insult free. 

Chris has challenged you to present your own beliefs- are you going to?


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



Just to point out- once again- you are the one insulting and using foul language here.

And you haven't provided a single example to prove your point.

At this point you are guilty of bearing false witness- something the Bible frown upon.


----------



## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...





Syriusly said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



I put that dingbat on "ignore".  I should probably put your hateful dumbass on there too.


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## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



And you're guilty of being a sniveling little twat.


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## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



Just to clarify- the Big Bang Theory and the Theory of Evolution are essentially unrelated.

Even if the Big Bang Theory is incorrect, it doesn't change the theory of evolution.

And neither theories explain the origin of life on earth.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



Not a surprise- cowards and liars like you tend to run away by putting people on ignore






Put me on ignore- it will just make it more fun to point out what an ass you are.


----------



## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



Your lying twat friend said evolution created the universe.  Do you want to make that argument you little twat?


----------



## deanrd (Aug 29, 2017)

Right wing Republicans will have to answer to Jesus for the awful and Satanic things they've done to the sick and the poor.  There will be a reckoning.  They have have gotten away with it up until now, but their day is coming.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



Wow- such a good Christian you are.

Oh wait- you probably wont' read this because you will run away like the little coward you are.


----------



## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...



I will.  The reader knows you're a fucking idiot.  Good riddance asshole.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



Sigh. 

I don't have any 'twat friend'- frankly only a real asshole would call any woman a 'twat'

I haven't seen any evidence that Chris lied about anything- though I have seen you lie repeatedly- but I am pointing out to Chris and others that the theory of evolution and the Big Bang Theory are unrelated.


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## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



Run away like the good little cowardly Christian you are.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > frigidweirdo said:
> ...



Well who is the better Christian- Trump or Bill Clinton?

Both are adulterers.

The difference is that Bill Clinton stayed married to his wife- while Trump committed adultery at least once- and then divorced and remarried twice.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



Don't know- don't care- any more than I care about the million dollar speeches Trump gave.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

RodISHI said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



I am not confused. 

There are tons of posters here at USMB who have posted their hatred of people because they are gay- hell Tipsy has even applauded ISIS for killing gay people.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



Not regarding adultery. Since Hillary Clinton has not committed adultery- or divorced and remarried.


----------



## RodISHI (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


You've cited one poster but the fact remains you are still confused; your own postings throughout are a testament to that fact.


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Well, the thing is that you don't have to approve of another person's life unless they are harming others by whatever it is they are doing.  Gay people are just people like anyone else and just want to have the same rights and privileges as anyone else.  I will agree that sometimes they go too far with their agenda, but I know a couple of gay people and they are just regular people.


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...



Gawd, what a jerk wad.  Lol.  I think real religious people would disown this freak of nature.


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



Thanks be to the Gods!


----------



## Skull Pilot (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > frigidweirdo said:
> ...


The only moral fibers Bill has are in the tissues he uses to clean up after getting a blow job


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Hopefully that jerk made his last appearance so we can get on with our interesting discussion.


----------



## Bonzi (Aug 29, 2017)

...and this thread had so much promise...


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Now, I want to ask, what makes evolution any more unbelievable or outrageous than a belief that there is a god who resides in a place called heaven that is, I don't know, in another dimension I guess, created the universe.  This single all power creature that exists and demands we live in a certain manner and worship him.  He used to demand animal sacrifices but now he is happy with just some of your income.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


The thing is we really don't know how the universe came into being.

I just don't feel the need to make up a god in the sky to explain things I don't understand.

If you look at the evolution of religion in humans you'll find that we used to have gods for everything we didn't understand.
As we came to understand these natural phenomena we discarded the gods thought to be responsible

Now we have one God for the two basic questions we as yet have answers for.

How was the universe brought into being and what happens after we die.

The latter being naught but the fear of death all sentient beings have


----------



## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Something beyond our universe had to give it that initial push, or so I believe.  It had a beginning.  What got it started?  I believe we have a creator.  If there is no creator, then I suppose we're left to believe that everything made itself.  That doesn't jive.


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Did Gods place the bacteria on Mars that have been found too?  Or did it just appear there naturally?  Diamonds are created out of coal, all natural processes.  No Gods are involved.  I'm sure at one time people probably thought that Gods created diamonds.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



I never said it didn't have a beginning.  We do not really know what that beginning was.  We may never know.

Personally I believe we might be incapable of actually understanding the universe in its entirety because our brains and senses are physically incapable of the processes necessary to do so.  It's much the same as my dogs being incapable of algebra.

But because we don't know there is no reason to say some magic all powerful being just snapped his fingers one day and everything came to be.


----------



## Jimmy_Chitwood (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Did Gods place the bacteria on Mars that have been found too?  Or did it just appear there naturally?  Diamonds are created out of coal, all natural processes.  No Gods are involved.  I'm sure at one time people probably thought that Gods created diamonds.




Education has likely worked against religion: all these fantastic stories of arks and whales and burning bushes and miracles sold much better to the uneducated.


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

People used to believe in vampires too, and in fact, they had MORE evidence for vampires than there is for any gods existing, but yet, vampires are just a superstition made up by superstitious people from long ago who did not understand the processes of death and decay.


----------



## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Another question.  If you have a "relationship" with god, aren't you supposed to be a serene and happy and secure person?  Well, given some of the examples shown in this thread of the anger and absolute miserableness of some so-called "religious" posters, I have my doubts.  Either you don't really have any relationship with any god or it is not as wonderful as you all make it sound.   

More often than not, I am attacked on this forum and have been on others by people who claim to be "religious" or "Christians" or "Catholics" or whatnot, and who will make the most rude, crude and disgusting comments ever and to a woman, no less, yet these are the "happy" religious people?  Yikes.  If this is what religious views bring you, I want no part of it.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

RodISHI said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...



Your reading comprehension problem is not the result of any confusion on my part.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Now, I want to ask, what makes evolution any more unbelievable or outrageous than a belief that there is a god who resides in a place called heaven that is, I don't know, in another dimension I guess, created the universe.  This single all power creature that exists and demands we live in a certain manner and worship him.  He used to demand animal sacrifices but now he is happy with just some of your income.



There are some who are offended by the mere idea that our existence was not planned, but the result of an extremely long unplanned process.

The theory of evolution best fits the evidence we now know- creation myths don't fit any of the evidence we know now- I will go with the one that best fits the evidence.


----------



## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> If you have a "relationship" with god, aren't you supposed to be a serene and happy and secure person?



Not necessarily.  Although being thankful and humble and understanding that suffering has meaning does help one through the storms in their lives.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



Well of course this always comes down to what became before the first thing.

If there was a 'creator'- who created the creator? With the creator fairy tale we are left to suppose that the creator created itself. Which doesn't jive.

Again- I don't care what people want to believe- nor do I believe we really understand all of the complexities of the creation of the universe.

But trying to argue that creation myths make more sense than current scientific theories.....is just an argument for faith.


----------



## westwall (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > BreezeWood said:
> ...








They are both authoritarians.


----------



## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Did Gods place the bacteria on Mars that have been found too?  Or did it just appear there naturally?  Diamonds are created out of coal, all natural processes.  No Gods are involved.  I'm sure at one time people probably thought that Gods created diamonds.


Indirectly?  Sure.  We live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that beings that know and create will eventually arise given the right conditions and enough time.


----------



## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> More often than not, I am attacked on this forum and have been on others by people who claim to be "religious" or "Christians" or "Catholics" or whatnot, and who will make the most rude, crude and disgusting comments ever and to a woman, no less, yet these are the "happy" religious people? Yikes. If this is what religious views bring you, I want no part of it.



Are you sure you don't go looking for that?


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

westwall said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



Okay- so you are saying that President Obama, President Trump, President Bush and President Clinton are all like Pol Pot- because they are all authoritarians.

Because of course- people on the right and left have all called each of those Presidents 'totalitarians'.

Pretty much can tell when a snowflake contard has lost an argument when he feels that a comparison between Pol Pot and President Obama is valid.


----------



## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> The thing is we really don't know how the universe came into being.



We have a pretty good idea.  It's called Inflation Theory.  All the matter and energy that we see today was created through a quantum tunneling event which obeyed the laws of conservation.


----------



## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> If there was a 'creator'- who created the creator?



The only solution to the first cause is something which is eternal and never changing.


----------



## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

Jimmy_Chitwood said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Did Gods place the bacteria on Mars that have been found too?  Or did it just appear there naturally?  Diamonds are created out of coal, all natural processes.  No Gods are involved.  I'm sure at one time people probably thought that Gods created diamonds.
> ...


Surprisingly enough the allegorical accounts of the Bible stand up pretty well.  For instance, the account of the Tower of Babel is an allegorical account of the great migration from the Cradle of Civilization (i.e. Mesopotamia).  In fact, this allegorical account explains how the account of Genesis ended being used as symbols in the written Chinese language 4500 years ago.  1500 years before Moses recorded it.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

deanrd said:


> Right wing Republicans will have to answer to Jesus for the awful and Satanic things they've done to the sick and the poor.  There will be a reckoning.  They have have gotten away with it up until now, but their day is coming.


Agreed.  Of course, that applies to all evil people regardless of political ideology.


----------



## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...


We exist in a universe where there has never been an uncaused event.  Which means that everything happened for a reason.  Otherwise known as cause and effect.  Everything has unfolded per the laws of nature.  Laws which existed before space and time.  Laws which controlled the creation of space and time.  The potential for beings that know and create existed before space and time because the laws existed before space and time.  Everything has unfolded by following rules (i.e. laws of nature).  It does not take a leap in logic to know that intelligence is behind rules.  And in this case the product of these rules is intelligence.  It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence.  So rather than being a late outgrowth of the universe, intelligence has always existed and is the source of the universe.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > If there was a 'creator'- who created the creator?
> ...



And what created the something which is eternal?


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...


Correct about Big Bang and Evolution.  The Big Bang has been proved through weight of evidence. 

What is unknown is the cause of the Big Bang and whether or not there is anything outside of our own universe.


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## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...



Now you just need some evidence to support that 'theory'

So far none does.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


By definition... nothing.  Eternal means always.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...


Can I use something you created as evidence?


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## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


You are trying to apply rules of the Natural Universe to something outside of it.  Do the laws of time and space apply outside the Universe?  When did time begin?  Space?  All at the Big Bang.  If time and space are predicated upon the Big Bang and only exist within the Natural Universe, then it is illogical to automatically apply those rules to anything beyond our Universe.


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## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> Jimmy_Chitwood said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



Oh allegories are a wonderful thing- easily bendable to whatever the person wants to see


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## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...



Use whatever 'evidence' that you believe supports the theory that intelligence has always existed and is the source of the universe.


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## Skull Pilot (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > The thing is we really don't know how the universe came into being.
> ...



You do know that a theory is NOT proven fact don't you?


----------



## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


No.  I don't think I am.  Inflation theory tells us what happens in a closed universe between the time of the vacuum and the initial expansion and cooling of space and time.  Space and time were created when all the matter and energy that we see was created though a quantum tunneling event and occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of an atom.  It did so following the laws of quantum mechanics and the conservation of mass and energy.


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## Skull Pilot (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



It just best fits our observations.  The flaw there is assuming our observations are not only accurate but complete


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## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

Jimmy_Chitwood said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Did Gods place the bacteria on Mars that have been found too?  Or did it just appear there naturally?  Diamonds are created out of coal, all natural processes.  No Gods are involved.  I'm sure at one time people probably thought that Gods created diamonds.
> ...


Which is why religion has fallen in numbers but spiritual beliefs have not.  There is a difference between believing in a spiritual existence and believing in a set of dogmatic beliefs such as not eating hot dogs or fucking your neighbor's wife.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...


Sure.  Let's discuss the limitations of science, ok?  Science proves the existence of laws, theories, principles, et al or it disproves the existence of laws, theories, principles, et al.  Science is never conclusive because laws, theories, principles, et al are always subject to revision if new data comes along - up to and including refuting the laws, theories, principles, et al.  Some people have said that science can't disprove the existence of something.  I say to those people, if science can't really disprove the existence of something, then science can't really prove the existence of something either. So, we are left with having to accept that practically speaking, science does prove and disprove the existence of laws, theories, principles, et al or that everything is taken on faith as nothing can really be proven.  So for the purposes of this discussion, we will assume the former; that practically speaking science does prove and disprove the existence of laws, theories, principles, et al.

Fair enough?


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## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


What are you observations of before the Big Bang?  

Agreed about the difference between accuracy and completeness.  It's similar to the maxim "an absence of evidence is not evidence of absence".


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Jimmy_Chitwood said:
> ...


No.  They are merely an allegorical description of something.  Are you arguing that the universe did not have a beginning?  You're going to lose that one.  Are you arguing that there was never a migration from the Cradle of Civilization?  You'll lose that one too.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Aug 29, 2017)

*


Bonzi said:





Moonglow said:



			I think if you treat people the way you want to be treated there would be a whole lot less trouble in the world...But that was another pipe dream in the Bible...
		
Click to expand...

I would find it hard to believe anyone could debate the Golden Rule....then again, some people like to be abused
		
Click to expand...

*
*If You Want to Rule, This Is Golden*


It lets designing people take advantage of you. Anything preached by the Establishment must be challenged. They want to turn us into suckers.

"I wouldn't shoot a robber first because I wouldn't have him shoot me first":  tombstone epitaph.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


Quantum tunneling?  Prove it.  All we know is that space and time began at the Big Bang.  Current evidence points strongly to a "Big Chill" end to the Universe, death by entropy, not a "Big Crunch" AKA Oscillating Universe as previously postulated. 

An Oscillating Universe required no creator or force of creation, something atheists loved.  A single-shot Universe begs a question.  A question several atheists on this forum are dancing around like bugs on a hot plate.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


Right, that's my point.  We have evidence.  It's called creation and everything which has happened since then.  You can never tell what something is by how it starts out.  You can only tell what it is by what it turns out to be.  And in the case of the evolution of matter, the pinnacle or end product is intelligence.  Name one thing which is more advanced or complex in the universe than intelligence?


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## westwall (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...









I actually like most of what Teddy was doing, it is his authoritarian bent that bothers me.  As in all things there are progressives who are murderous swine, and there are progressives who are not.  The problem is when the reasonable progressives get pushed out so that the real assholes can get their way.  Those are the first people to be killed because so long as they are around they are a threat to the truly evil ones, just look at what happened to Trotsky.

Progressivism as a movement has always ended in mass murder.  Not all progressives are bad, nor did I ever say that, but the philosophy is inherently authoritarian, it just needs the scumbags to get into power for the murder to begin.  It doesn't always happen, but the potential is always there.

You ignore that very well known historical fact at your peril.  The fascists have always used the gay community as tools as well.  They use them because they are the social outcasts.  Then, when they no longer have need of them they kill them.  That too is well documented history, and one that I take great pains to educate my sister on.  She's a lesbian you see, and like me a liberal, but she tends more towards the progressive side because she likes what they say.  I have spent a great deal of time educating her to look beyond that, and to focus in on what they do. 

She is moving ever closer to my viewpoint as she has witnessed the progressives defend the murderous scum that killed all of those poor people in the Pulse nightclub.  She now carries a gun (something she would have never even considered prior to that massacre) and her partner is now learning how to shoot, which I am very thankful for as I love them both very much.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> ...and this thread had so much promise...


All do dear.  Most play themselves out in the first few hundred posts.  Nothing to fret about.  It's normal for life on the 'Net.


----------



## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


It's called string theory and it is the leading cosmological model.  It addresses 5 of the 6 dilemma that cosmologists haven't been able to answer.  Look it up for yourself.  You'll never be convinced by me.  

No one believes in an oscillating universe anymore because of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.  The universe itself cannot be eternal because we would reach thermal equilibrium.  The universe had a beginning.


----------



## westwall (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...






Everyone but trump, yes.  trump, by the very fact that EVERY politician, for the most part, is against him, tells me that he is not a part of the authoritarian club, and that is good for the middle class.


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## RodISHI (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


It is not my reading comprehension. You believe that as an atheist you can tell another who is a believer what they believe in according to 'your' precepts. In that alone you are the one that is confused.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Another question.  If you have a "relationship" with god, aren't you supposed to be a serene and happy and secure person?  Well, given some of the examples shown in this thread of the anger and absolute miserableness of some so-called "religious" posters, I have my doubts.  Either you don't really have any relationship with any god or it is not as wonderful as you all make it sound.
> 
> More often than not, I am attacked on this forum and have been on others by people who claim to be "religious" or "Christians" or "Catholics" or whatnot, and who will make the most rude, crude and disgusting comments ever and to a woman, no less, yet these are the "happy" religious people?  Yikes.  If this is what religious views bring you, I want no part of it.


1) That's an ideal, an ideal most people don't live up to.   Has atheism made you happier?  Does knowing that none of this matters, that your life, my life and the lives of 8 billion others is completely worthless in the large scheme of things?  In some ways accepting that we are all worthless can provide a sense of serenity.  For others, it scares the shit out of them.

2) True. It's not very Christian.  OTOH, atheists often claim to be logical, factual, reasonable people and that's obviously not true either.  The common thread being they are all people.  FWIW, the only logical position is that of being an agnostic; neither believing nor disbelieving since there is no evidence either way.


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## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

westwall said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



And how is Trump not an authoritarian- but Bush was? 

So you think every politician is an authoritarian- and a progressive?


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## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > The thing is we really don't know how the universe came into being.
> ...


Link please.  Where did the quantum tunnel originate?  A tunnel implies an entrance and an exit.  If the exit is our Universe, where is the entrance?


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## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...



LOL- you are talking 'faith'- not evidence.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Aug 29, 2017)

G.T. said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...


*Apostrophe Catastrophe*

No matter if you yammer "OFF-TOPIC!" and "GRAMMAR NAZI!", your post proves that permissive punctuation leads to permissive thought.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


Strings imply a beginning and end.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


The same faith Atheists have that there's nothing beyond the Universe and that it just magically popped into existence out of nothing?


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## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

westwall said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



Tell me exactly how Teddy Roosevelt's 'progressivism' - and he frankly is our most famous 'progressive' President- since he ran as an actual 'progressive'- ended in mass murder?

And as far as 'reasonable' and 'real assholes'- the same of course can be spoken of regarding religions- and religious zealots. 

Generally most believers of most religions are 'reasonable'- but are too often pushed out so that the real assholes can get their way. In this way religion and Communism/Totalitarianism act very similarly- the zealots demand absolute agreement as to the orthodoxy, and dissent is an excuse to kill those who disagree.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


Technically it's called philosophy.  Science pretty much ends at the singularity.  But the logic behind the creation of space and time is pretty sound and better than anything you have come up with.  In fact, as near as I can tell you are devoid of any facts or logic in your belief.  

Why don't you tell me how it came to be that the universe came into existence and evolved into intelligence?


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## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

westwall said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



Yet we started this discussion with you making this claim:

_Progressives don't believe in allowing people the time to evolve. It is quite apparent that they would rather just kill them._


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...





Divine.Wind said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...


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## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

westwall said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



Please tell me more about how the 'fascists' use the gay community as tools as well.

Because looking at the history of the United States- the ones who made the laws that criminalized homosexuality were Christians- elected Christians. 

So far your 'well documented' history is pretty much just you saying it is.


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## westwall (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...








All I can say is read some history, preferably some that is in an actual book.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


I don't think so.  Just a beginning.  It can be eternal into the future (i.e. other tunneling events could occur) but for our space time continuum it had to have a beginning because it has had expansion.  There could be periods of contraction but as long as the net was expansion it had to have a beginning because you can work the equations back to that point where it occupied 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of an atom.  

Mind you the infinite expansion of the universe will lead to thermal equilibrium as per the 2nd Law of Thermo.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

RodISHI said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...



No- again your reading comprehension is the problem.

As I said- and I am glad to stand by it- It is quite clear that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about gays- despise gays. 

For being gay.

Prove me wrong if you can.


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## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

westwall said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



The history book I am currently reading is "The Line upon a Wind"- a history of the naval war during the Napoleonic Wars.

Oddly enough this book doesn't mention Teddy Roosevelt or the mass murders that his progressivism 'inevitably' led to.


----------



## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


No  It has been that way for the last 2000 years.  Socialism has always sought to subordinate religion.  They seek to replace loyalty to God, Country and Family with loyalty to state.  Every socialist movement has had a free love movement going all the way back to the Cathars and beyond.

The Socialist Phenomenon by Igor Shafarevich


----------



## RodISHI (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


And again I have read many of your other posts and you talk about something you know nothing about when it comes to your precepts. You have the gall to tell other people what you perceive about the written word of God without knowledge as you base your opinions on your personal precepts.

If they despise your lifestyle because they believe it is wrong that is their prerogative. That still doesn't mean it is hatred that fuels their emotions or beliefs. It is your problem if you are an atheist and a gay not theirs.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Did Gods place the bacteria on Mars that have been found too?  Or did it just appear there naturally?  Diamonds are created out of coal, all natural processes.  No Gods are involved.  I'm sure at one time people probably thought that Gods created diamonds.


Many Christians believe God is a "personal God".  I'm more inclined to Deism, a "watchmaker God".   More akin to Johnny Appleseed tossing out seeds, knowing many will grow, but not monitoring or interfering with the process.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


Still begging the question of why does a string have a beginning.


----------



## sartre play (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > LittleNipper said:
> ...


Poor Hillary, talk about God, the weather, your shoe size, no talk towards solutions, lets just blame it on Hillary.


----------



## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


Prove most posters who post negatively against gays despise gays.  I'll give you a few days to collect your thoughts.....then never see you post any evidence. 

While you're not doing that, please post any of your evidence that I'm anti-gay.  Again, I'm happy to wait for you never to respond.


----------



## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


I don't think you can take the string analogy the way you are doing it.  Sure a string has a beginning and and end.  I don't think that applies to quantum mechanics.  I don't know anyone who disagrees that about 14 billion years ago all the matter and energy in the universe occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of an atom and then began to expand and cool.  This belief is based on the red shift, cosmic background radiation and Friedman's solution to Einsteins General Theory of Relativity.  The 2nd Law of Thermo tells us that an infinite acting universe will reach thermal equilibrium so it is not possible for the universe to be infinite acting (i.e. cyclical) because we don't see a universe where thermal equilibrium exists.

But to answer your question more directly, I have given you an explanation for why the universe exists.  It is a philosophical answer based on philosophy and science.  Specifically, the science around the evolution of matter and what that tells us.  The answer to why the universe had a beginning is because that is what was required by the laws of nature for a universe to exist and serve its purpose which is to create intelligence.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Aug 29, 2017)

Gracie said:


> I never understood the fascination that men have with breasts.


*Think Wayback*

The jiggle gene (seismophile) survived because the tribal-survival imperative required a strong next generation.  A stacked rack meant that a woman would provide plenty of milk to nourish that.


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## G.T. (Aug 29, 2017)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


Dont be insecure, i wouldnt yell such things twattyburger


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## westwall (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...









I'm reading "Six Frigates", among others, also set during the Napoleonic era and it is remarkable that the government back then, was every bit as petty and ignorant as the government today.  You should read it.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


Nice theory.  No evidence.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


See it how you wish, bro.  No skin off my teeth.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> ...But to answer your question more directly, I have given you an explanation for why the universe exists.  It is a philosophical answer based on philosophy and science.  Specifically, the science around the evolution of matter and what that tells us.  The answer to why the universe had a beginning is because that is what was required by the laws of nature for a universe to exist and serve its purpose which is to create intelligence.


More directly, you've given an opinion on why the Universe exists.  There is no evidence on why it does exist.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


Mine neither.  It's all thought, zero evidence.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

Guth's Grand Guess | DiscoverMagazine.com

Inflation (cosmology) - Wikipedia


----------



## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > ...But to answer your question more directly, I have given you an explanation for why the universe exists.  It is a philosophical answer based on philosophy and science.  Specifically, the science around the evolution of matter and what that tells us.  The answer to why the universe had a beginning is because that is what was required by the laws of nature for a universe to exist and serve its purpose which is to create intelligence.
> ...


But there is.  Creation itself is the evidence.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


Creation obviously exists.  Now prove what created Creation.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Gracie said:
> ...



*Merrily, Life Is But a Dream*


"Homophobia" is a secular virtue, too.  Gayists and fairyphiles know that the majority of people are not very strictly religious.  Taking advantage of that, the devious deviants and their permissive enablers spin it as a Bible-banger issue.  The main stream of discussion here is headed for a waterfall as the doomed canoeists smirk at those standing off on firm ground.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


That's not what you asked.  You said, there's no evidence on why it does exist.  I said there is.  Now you are changing it to what created Creation.

Can I use something you create as evidence?  If so, what are the things I could learn from it?


----------



## danielpalos (Aug 29, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?


If it is about morals, then the abomination of hypocrisy, is also a sin, especially for known "and registered in a Bible, Original Sinners."

Our social Contract is about secular and temporal morals.

What is not covered by our Ten Amendments.

Consider this:

True Gamorrans and True Sodomites, make better Citizens, than False Christians.


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## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

westwall said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



Oh I am never surprised by pettiness and ignorance of men.


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## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



Wow- an obscure publication from 1975. 

And pointing out the Cathars- victims of a genocidal campaign by the Catholic church- which murdered men, women and children in order to stamp it out.

Particularly fascinating that you selected a religious movement as an example of a 'socialist' movement that 'sought to subordinate religion'

It was not the socialists who moved to criminalize homosexuality in America. It was Christians.


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## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

RodISHI said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...



LOL. How is it my 'problem' that I am an atheist? I am fine with not believing in any fairies in the sky. 

Tell me more about my 'lifestyle'......because you have read so many of my other posts and think you know so much about me.....lol


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## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...



LOL


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


Nope.  The most thorough and comprehensive analysis of the calculus of socialism that has ever been done.  One that has never been refuted.  

Absolutely, religions which were based on socialism attempted to subordinate the dominant religion of the day.  No different than today except it is the religion of atheism which is doing it.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


Can I take something you have created and use it as evidence?  If so, what can I learn from it?


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## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...



Please- if you want to challenge me- at least try to be honest enough to use my actual words- rather than make up things I have said.

Here is what I said: 
_It is quite clear that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about gays- despise gays.
_
I challenged all of you to prove me wrong. 

Off the top of my head- without evening straining- that includes Stevie the Racist, Tipsy- but I will be glad to share some of the posts of the members of USMB who have cheered the deaths of gays on, or who have suggested that the proper course for gays is to hope that they all die, or are killed- see my signature for that lovely sentiment from Tipsy.


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## Syriusly (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...



'dominant religion of the day'- lol

This is what you claimed;
_Socialism has always sought to subordinate religion.  They seek to replace loyalty to God, Country and Family with loyalty to state._

The Cathars rejected Catholicism- not religion. They put loyalty to God before loyalty to the Catholic Church- and remember the Catholic Church demanded loyalty to it before country or family.

The Cathars put loyalty to god before any state- which is why so many Cathars died rather than accept the imposition by the Catholic Death squads on the Cathar communities.

That you choice the Cathars as an example of the supposed proof of socialism objection to god.......when the Cathars were wiped out- slaughtered by Christians because of the Cathars religious beliefs....well just shows your own ignorance.

By the way- the author of your volume on Socialism rather glosses over how Catharism ended- not mentioning even one of the massacres of the Cathars by the Christian death squads.

Almost like he has an agenda.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


Obviously, you don't know anything about the Cathars.


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## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

Jimmy_Chitwood said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Did Gods place the bacteria on Mars that have been found too?  Or did it just appear there naturally?  Diamonds are created out of coal, all natural processes.  No Gods are involved.  I'm sure at one time people probably thought that Gods created diamonds.
> ...



Actually, and as this thread demonstrates, the preponderance of the evidence is for a creator.  It is the uneducated and willfully ignorant atheists that are the suckers.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

I'm not a socialist and I'm not religious.  I'm actually quite conservative with many of my beliefs and I would never EVER vote for a leftist, so I don't fall into your little "boxes."    Suckers are ones who fall for cons and lies and make believe fantasies.  I find religion to be just as convincing as transgenderism.


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## BreezeWood (Aug 29, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> All we know is that space and time began at the Big Bang. Current evidence points strongly to a "Big Chill" end to the Universe, death by entropy, not a "Big Crunch" AKA Oscillating Universe as previously postulated.




there are other options for compaction, matter in unison will return to its origin, the previous Singularity, without ever changing direction traversing in expansion at a finite angle trajectory, to recompact creating a new Singularity proving BB a cyclical event not related to time.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

I don't understand why religious people are not more outraged by infidelity/adultery.  That is one sin that is included in the Ten Commandments, makes a "mockery" out of marriage, and is breaking an actual vow or oath to your God.


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## westwall (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Jimmy_Chitwood said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...









Not at all.  There is neither evidence for, nor against a "creator".  That's why it is called "faith".


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## Moonglow (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


You are aware of what gnostic is in the Christian religion and how the papacy spent hundreds of years destroying any competition to their realm of control?


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## Moonglow (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Jimmy_Chitwood said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


The question resonates on which kind of creator since more than one is on the books...


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> I find religion to be just as convincing as transgenderism.



That's a pretty ignorant statement, especially coming from someone who claims to be conservative. What is so convincing about transgenderism?


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > I find religion to be just as convincing as transgenderism.
> ...



Nothing, and that is the point.  There is nothing convincing about it for me.  My opinion on religion is not "ignorant."  I've done a lot of studying into religion.  I've read the Bible.  I've been to church.  I reject those teachings as BS.  There is nothing to argue about.  You are entitled to your opinion.  I am entitled to mine.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

Moonglow said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > Jimmy_Chitwood said:
> ...


You can't begin to answer that question until you have accepted that a higher intelligence exists.  

But no, different understandings of God exists.  Not different Gods.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

What makes your god any more "real" than . . . ?


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## Moonglow (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
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More intelligent or a higher like weed smoking alien?






Causde I don't have to accept shit that we don't know about, Si senor frog? Mention this ad and get 10% off...Many restriction apply..


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


Except the case for religion is convincing.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...



Maybe to you it is.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> What makes your god any more "real" than . . . ?


Reason and experience.


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## Moonglow (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


Does it come with knee pads?


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


Throughout our nation's history, churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people's allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before putting their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation's Christian heritage.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > What makes your god any more "real" than . . . ?
> ...



Examples?  There is really no more evidence for any other Gods than there is for Zeus.  There are books about him too.  Lots of people used to believe in him.  Some people still might believe in him.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

Moonglow said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


You won't need them.  I promise.


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## Moonglow (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


So you are not catholic..


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
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> > ding said:
> ...



I don't think religion is a "bad" thing necessarily.  They do a lot of good.  They also do bad though.  The church is an institution made up of human beings who are ALL fallible.  As for God or Gods, I just simply don't believe in the concept.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Moonglow said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...



OMG.  Groan.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


Make up your mind what you want to talk about.  Religion?  A Higher Power?  Or a specific God?  Which is it.  Or would you like me to do all three?


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...



Religion?  Well that obviously exists.  Make your case for your god.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> ding said:
> 
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> > ChrisL said:
> ...


It is a sight better than a world without it.  Lot's of practical applications that naturally lead to success.  We've already seen what your world would look like.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
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God or Gods?


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## Moonglow (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
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While genuflecting and transubstantiation along with adoring Mary.....


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...



You have more than one god?  Okay, whatevs.  Make your case for all of your gods.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

westwall said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > Jimmy_Chitwood said:
> ...


So why can't what He created be used as evidence?


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
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> > ding said:
> ...



Sure, some people probably NEED religion in order to be "good."  I don't have this need.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
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Because there is no evidence that "He" created anything at all.  Do you think cavemen and women worshiped your same god?  If not, did all of those people burn in Hell?  I mean there was no Jesus to forgive them from the original sin, right?  Or do you not believe in cavemen (that would be a belief in the theory of evolution after all, and I've already been told how STUPID that theory is - lol).


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


Ummm... common sense says there's only one Creator.  Please tell me that you aren't one of those idiots who confuses understanding of God for multiple gods, ok?

So try not to bring up who God is while we are discussing the case for God.  Fair enough?


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## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

westwall said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > Jimmy_Chitwood said:
> ...



Someone had to give that initial push to "cause" the big bang, right?  Unless, of course, one makes the leap to believe that the universe caused itself to come into existence.  I agree this isn't proof, but I believe it is "evidence".


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


If you created a cell phone and I found it and didn't know who created it, could I use that cell phone as evidence?


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...



I said "make your case for your god," and you said "God or gods?"  Which one would think means that you believe in more than one god.


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## westwall (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...







We have no idea.  We KNOW that things spontaneously combust.  Who's to say the Big Bang wasn't spontaneous?


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Note to self, brainwashing is a *powerful *thing, that is for sure.  Lol.


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## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)

westwall said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
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I'd like to believe that matter, space and time created itself, I just don't have the faith.


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## K9Buck (Aug 29, 2017)




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## westwall (Aug 29, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...









I find it interesting that the description of creation in the book of genesis, and cosmological descriptions of the Big Bang, are remarkably close.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


No.  It's because your kind is disingenuous and switching back and forth between the three all the while trying to bring in specific theological precepts for the express purpose of muddying the water.  

I've already started establishing that what was created can be used as evidence.  

We exist in a universe where there has never been an uncaused event. Which means that everything happened for a reason. Otherwise known as cause and effect. Everything has unfolded per the laws of nature. Laws which existed before space and time. Laws which controlled the creation of space and time. We live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that beings that know and create were predestined to exist by the laws of nature.  Given enough time and the right conditions, beings that know and create will arise.  The potential for beings that know and create existed before space and time were created.   All energy and matter which exists today was created when space and time came into existence.  Since that time it has merely changed form.  Which means that the energy which makes up who we are was present when space and time were created.  You can't know what something is by how it starts.  You can only know what something is by what it is when it is finished.   In this case the product of these rules is intelligence. We live in a universe that is defined by rules.  Intelligence is behind rules.  Rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, mind has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

We can confirm this in a myriad of a number of ways.


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## westwall (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...









It is certainly the hypothesis of a theist.  But the logic is unsupported by fact.  You have supposition only.  Supposition is not fact.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Sure, some people probably NEED religion in order to be "good." I don't have this need.


Since I believe there is meaning from suffering, when I experience difficulties I see the meaning and look for other ways I can give more.  The best you can hope for is to suffer without complaint and I don't see you one who suffers without complaining.  



ChrisL said:


> Note to self, brainwashing is a *powerful *thing, that is for sure. Lol.



It's comments like this that lead me to hold the above opinion.  But putting that aside, I see it the other way around.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...



I am doing no such thing.  I am simply explaining how I feel about it and how it is not believable at all or in any way for me.  Like I said, it is just as believable as Zeus.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

westwall said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


I've got science all the way back to the beginning (as best we can) and I have reason and logic for before that point and I have what has unfolded since that time and what that tells us.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Sure, some people probably NEED religion in order to be "good." I don't have this need.
> ...



Well, who cares what you think you see.  I doubt if you see much, TBH.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Sure, some people probably NEED religion in order to be "good." I don't have this need.
> ...



Give?  Is that what you call what you do around here?  Ba-ha-ha!  That's hilarious.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


Great then make your case for Zeus because that is an ignorant statement.  There is no case.  I actually have a case so for you to say that is ridiculous.


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## westwall (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...









Yes, but your position is entirely based on supposition.  You declare that the Laws of Physics require an intellect to be.  I say that the Universe functions based on the Laws of Physics that simply are.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

I LOVE it when the so called "religious folks" try to act as if they are "good" or "better" than somebody else.  It is so . . . typical.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


Yep, that's right.  Of course you can't understand it.  You wouldn't get anything out of it.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...



Err.  Like I said, for me, God is just as believable as Zeus, which means it is not believable at all.  Lol.  

Now, you say you have evidence of a God (the one and only person in the WORLD apparently - lol), so show it.  Show your evidence.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...



Understand that you are a prick to everyone?  That is quite clear and there is nothing to understand about it.  Some things just ARE.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...



I wonder if you think you are a good spokesperson for your god?  Do you represent what He stands for?


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Are the so called "religious" and "god fearing" peeps in this thread setting an example of what we should all strive to be?


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

I see a lot of hate, anger and unhappiness.  That is what I see.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> I LOVE it when the so called "religious folks" try to act as if they are "good" or "better" than somebody else.  It is so . . . typical.


Ummm... I didn't see me making that argument.  I'm a real shit.  No saint at all.  You are equating the advantage my faith provides me as somehow me thinking I am better than you.  Not the case.  Nothing special about me.  

There are moral laws just like there are physical laws.  With physical laws the consequence of violating it is immediate, not so for moral laws.  Often time you get away with it.  But make no mistake failed behaviors naturally lead to failure just as surely  as successful behaviors lead to success.  It is just a matter of time and in this way consciousness evolves just like every other stage of evolution before it.  It actually follows a set pattern which is similar to the technology cycle.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > I LOVE it when the so called "religious folks" try to act as if they are "good" or "better" than somebody else.  It is so . . . typical.
> ...



I can have morals without having a religious belief.  In fact, I actually do have very strong moral values.  The entire concept of god or gods is just too ridiculous and outrageous for me to ever believe without some serious solid proof.  It is as simple as that.  I have no "faith" in a god.  There is nothing more to it.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Now, back to the topic at hand about homosexuals being sinners.  Is this a huge sin that should really worry you?  I would think there are a lot of sins that rate much higher on the list than a homosexual.  I've noticed very few responses when you bring adultery into the conversation.  Does anyone here feel that is a bigger sin than homosexuality?  My argument for it being a worse sin is that it is an actual promise that you made before and to your God that you broke.  You were CLEARLY taken over by devils or demons at the time of the infidelity.  You were weak and allowed these devils to enter your body and brain and make you do terrible things.  It is actually one of THE 10 commandments, which are THE moral code of most Christian people.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

westwall said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


Then everything in science is supposition as supposition can mean theory.  So, I'm not sure what your distinction is implying.  

Is the universe becoming self aware of itself supposition?


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


Sure.  But there's a good chance they are relativistic.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


Do you believe it is moral to end a human life?


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


I'm sure He thinks I'm horrible.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...



That depends upon the circumstances.  Is the person suffering from a terminal disease and is in constant pain and does the person want to die?  Is it a serial killer who is so far gone, there is no hope for any kind of meaningful rehabilitation and re-entrance into society because he or she is too dangerous?


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> I see a lot of hate, anger and unhappiness.  That is what I see.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


A baby in the womb.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...



I don't think it is moral to have an abortion.  I would not have one.  However, that is not my decision to make for another woman.  I am not her.  I am not in her shoes.  Some people are probably mentally/emotionally incapable of being parents.  There are cases of HORRIBLE abuse where children are actually murdered by their own parents.  Would those children have been better off never existing at all?  I don't know.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

How could any "god" allow such a thing to happen?  I don't care what his reasons are.  To allow a child to suffer horribly at the hands of the people he/she is supposed to love and trust???  That is THE most horrible crime and sin that there is, to murder your BORN child.  Much worse than getting an abortion, IMO.


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## skye (Aug 29, 2017)

It's a Sin to tell a lie...


what     funnyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

Imagine the horror of being a little baby or a child and having your parent beat you to death.  OMG.  If there are devils, those people are devils.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


But is it immoral?


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Imagine the horror of being a little baby or a child and having your parent beat you to death.  OMG.  If there are devils, those people are devils.


Yep, life is tough.  Are you saying you'd never want the chance because of a thought crime?


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...



To me it is, yes.  Anyways, why are you questioning MY moral beliefs?  What difference does it make to you?


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> How could any "god" allow such a thing to happen?  I don't care what his reasons are.  To allow a child to suffer horribly at the hands of the people he/she is supposed to love and trust???  That is THE most horrible crime and sin that there is, to murder your BORN child.  Much worse than getting an abortion, IMO.


And therein lies your problem.  You can't imagine a god unless everything is perfect.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > How could any "god" allow such a thing to happen?  I don't care what his reasons are.  To allow a child to suffer horribly at the hands of the people he/she is supposed to love and trust???  That is THE most horrible crime and sin that there is, to murder your BORN child.  Much worse than getting an abortion, IMO.
> ...



There is no such thing as "perfect."


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## skye (Aug 29, 2017)

the only sin is to tell a lie my possums....that's  the only sin on earth LOL


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


Just proving that since you don't believe in a higher power you're more willing to accept morally relativistic values.  Which is exactly what my siggie that you found so offensive says.


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## ding (Aug 29, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


Which is why you will never accept that God exists.


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## ChrisL (Aug 29, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...



Whatever.  Yawn.  Do you have something to add to thread topic?  Any response to my prior post about the sin of homosexuality versus the sin of infidelity?


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## westwall (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...






Do you understand the difference between a supposition and a fact?


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## Skull Pilot (Aug 30, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



As I have said before we may very well be incapable of understanding the universe in its entirety.  We know nothing of dark matter and dark energy other than something else exists in the universe that adds to the gravitational forces we see at work. 

We think Dark energy comprises 70% of the known universe and we do not understand dark energy at all so by admission we fail to understand 70% of the universe.  Add to that the estimated percentage of the known universe being what we think is cold dark matter and we find that we don't understand 95% of our observed universe

We already admit that the laws of physics as we understand them didn't exist or even apply at the time of the big bang if there was a big bang.  So we are trying to explain a phenomenon that may have happened with a set of laws that didn't exist at the time and might not even be able to explain the event.


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## sealybobo (Aug 30, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?


It's wrong because a man made religion said it's wrong. You have the right to be ignorant though.


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## Bonzi (Aug 30, 2017)

If we are incapable of understanding things, why is that limited to what we perceive as "science"?

People have no problem believing in evil forces, ghosts etc.  Why not a supreme being?


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## Bonzi (Aug 30, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think?
> ...



Biblically, laws are made for the benefit of US - if we followed the 10 commandments, we would be more well adjusted, happier people and thrive much better.  That is the Christian take anyway....


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## sealybobo (Aug 30, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


I could come up with ten thou shall nots too.

Thou shall not be a homophobe or racist would be one. Don't hate anything god made


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## Bonzi (Aug 30, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



God DOES want us to love each other.  It's the 2nd greatest commandment
#1 is love God
#2 is love others as yourself (of course if you hate yourself, that can be a problem)... (just kidding)


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## Marion Morrison (Aug 30, 2017)

Funny how 5 out of 6 engineers I know are avid churchgoers. 

Wait..make that 6 out of 7.

Right about now, I'm trying to remember who the outlier is. I know it's someone that's not related.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

westwall said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


Bingo.

No, he does not.

Prescriptive vs. descriptive is something I dont think he's sat and pondered much.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


The why part is still missing.  There is no evidence of "why".  The Universe obviously exists and it's existence can be traced back to the Big Bang, but not the why nor what caused the Big Bang.  Your theory of tunnels is interesting, but unproved.  Not to mention it doesn't say where that tunnel originated.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


Which religion?  Judaism?  Hinduism?  Buddhism?  Ancient writings are not necessarily religious.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


 the term creation itself is a misnomer, as it presupposes a creator

"just is" is a possibility that cannot be scientifically, nor philosophically taken off of the table ~ and so calling the universe a 'creation' is a fallacy.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 30, 2017)

Moonglow said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


Agreed there was a long, historical move to declare all other forms of Christianity as blasphemy, upon penalty of death.  The Council of Nicaea, especially 325AD, was tasked with the mission of setting both the mission of the church and the texts used.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


Not necessarily, but, yes, "creation" can imply a creator.  What would you call it?  "The Beginning?  Either way there is still the question of "why?"


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


the beginning implies it began

thats not scientifically n'or philosophically proven.

the universe as we know it collapses to a singularity if we look at the signatures of its past - but the singularity is not necessarily its beginning


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## Marion Morrison (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...



Were you there? No? God made the world and all that's in it. 

Prove me wrong.

Go>


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


i dont have to prove you wrong if you dont prove you right.

there'd be as much to talk about if you said willy wonka did it.


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## hobelim (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...




"In the beginning" suggests a fairy tale just like "once upon a time".....


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

hobelim said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


it also suggests we know something that we dont


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## Marion Morrison (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...



So you have no evidence aye?

I'm going to say everything works just a little too well in unison and harmony for things to be a coincidence.

All the cells and plants and animals, fish, everything.


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## hobelim (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> hobelim said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...




How many of you are there?


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## frigidweirdo (Aug 30, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > LittleNipper said:
> ...



Actually the alternative was vote for anyone else, try and get a better system in place so that people actually get CHOICE when they vote.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > Marion Morrison said:
> ...


no evidence of what?

and too well in comparison to what...you have no other universe to look at and compare this one to, so.i dont know what you base "well" on? your butt??

the universe as we know it now is BILLIONS of years from its singularity, and beings cant even live longer than a millisecond in comparison to that.......that we know of. is that efficiency???

i dunno, i see no evidence that thats efficient.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

hobelim said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > hobelim said:
> ...


in terms of my awareness, or in terms of physical reality.....or in terms of digital reality.....?

its either a malformed question, or.an unanswerable one. 

either way, its beyond anyone ive met's power to answer


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## frigidweirdo (Aug 30, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



Well yes, but the point is about consistency, isn't it? If you're claiming the Bible says something therefore you should act in this immoral way towards them because it's your relijon, then surely you should do the same thing to ALL people the Bible says "fuck you" to.


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## hobelim (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> hobelim said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...




Whenever someone speaks of themselves in the plural I notice. They are either speaking for a crowd or think of themselves as royalty. Either way the prognosis isn't very good.

It seems that a self-negating multiplicity is sitting in the place where an individual identity should be.


In case you really don't know, you are one person with one mind..Take charge of your own life. clean house.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 30, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


You can't prove your own claim?  No surprise there. 

Naming a few posters who have said hateful things doesn't equate to such even vague terms like "sizable portion" or equating posting "negatively" with "despise".

Example:  _It is quite clear that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about Christians - despise Christians_.

Now, like you said, "Prove me wrong".


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

hobelim said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > hobelim said:
> ...


prove that im one person with one mind.

prove im not a computer.

prove im not a program.

prove im not being operated, by several.....



youre taking leaps as well ~ and mine was merely a freakin expression.


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## Marion Morrison (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
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Hokay, glad to know you're the judge of all that. 

I don't think your deck was poorly built.


That wood came from somewhere. Or is it composite?

Screws and saws and all that came from somewhere too.

I still have my grandpas handsaw miter box, baby.


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## Marion Morrison (Aug 30, 2017)

I saw wood, but not in the manner of my forefathers.


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## hobelim (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> hobelim said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...


  Just an expression?

 why not try to express your self without any "we" or "us"..

If you find that it is difficult, you probably should take it seriously..


From where I stand you appear to be slowly disintegrating into nothingness.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > Marion Morrison said:
> ...


i didnt judge anything

i said ive got nothing to base a judgment on......to judge the harmony of nature....


i said compared to what??


youre the one judging


youre the one that called it.harmonious



im the one saying


we can only judge that in comparison to what??? ourselves???? thats illogical


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## Divine Wind (Aug 30, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> What makes your god any more "real" than . . . ?


When people put specific attributes, characteristics or history to a "god", then you are correct.  When using the term as an all powerful force that is both beyond the Universe, a force of creation and threads its way throughout our Universe, then it becomes a universal term.

What would you call such a force?  Add it to the list of "the Nine Billion Names of God".


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

hobelim said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > hobelim said:
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thats so sanctimonious and useless of a post, jesus titty fucking CHRIST


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## Divine Wind (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...


The Big Bang was the beginning of our Universe, but agreed, not necessarily the beginning of the singularity.  Since it was there before space and time began, then the only proper term is that it was there for eternity.  It's an area we can't explore scientifically as we can what happened at the moment of the Big Bang.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 30, 2017)

hobelim said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > hobelim said:
> ...


In general, I agree on the use of "we", but in this context, I take it as "the wealth of human knowledge" as in "We, the human race".


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> G.T. said:
> 
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> > Divine.Wind said:
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its fun though

i like the way the ego clouds these discussions almost inevitably, hell even mine

but ill never give up and say fuck it, religion


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## Marion Morrison (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> Marion Morrison said:
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> 
> > G.T. said:
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Dude, stop trying to go deep when you belong in the kiddie pool, k?

I'm shoving you in the shallow water now.

Me? I can swim. I can go to the bottom and come up again.

I can even even push a sunken Johnboat up from the bottom and have.


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## dblack (Aug 30, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?


Of course it is. Just don't get your sins mixed up with government and it's all good.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > Marion Morrison said:
> ...


you dont know me, just cuz i joke around in the flame zone doesnt mean i dont have an education and ponder existence itself, einstein

either try and stick to the discussion or buzz off....my post was legitimate and all it did to your brain was elicit a dunce like middle school response instead of a well thought out one

whats that tell anyone, do you suppose?


when you said that nature seems harmonious, i said in comparison to what...


are you mad at that question??


why???

ask yourself,  not me.


the universe is billions of years old. humans live to be 70 something. sounds pretty volatile, the nature we're experiencing.

thats just my opinion based on time....the 4th dimension

whats yours in comparison to??


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## Divine Wind (Aug 30, 2017)

BreezeWood said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > All we know is that space and time began at the Big Bang. Current evidence points strongly to a "Big Chill" end to the Universe, death by entropy, not a "Big Crunch" AKA Oscillating Universe as previously postulated.
> ...


The evidence at present points to an ever expanding universe unable to collapse and begin anew due to Dark Matter and Dark Energy.  In short, the jury is still out on how the Universe will end.


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## Marion Morrison (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...



You're really out there, G.T. What proof do you have that our world is billions of years old?

You witnessed it? No?

Rely on some scientist to tell you? What?

6 out of 7 engineers I know go to church every Sunday.

That includes my Japanese friend that's a civil engineer in Ohio. We used to have great fun, climbing walls and things.

It also includes the president of the "Engineer society of America" or something like that.


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## Marion Morrison (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. How is it the cycle of life works so well in perpetuation without someone setting it up?


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## Divine Wind (Aug 30, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> If we are incapable of understanding things, why is that limited to what we perceive as "science"?
> 
> People have no problem believing in evil forces, ghosts etc.  Why not a supreme being?


1)  We have brains and the Universe has set laws.  Regardless of our actual origin, it seems to be a good idea to use our brains to understand the Universe.

2) Agreed about "evil forces".  I see too many "Christians" who are quick to say something is the work of the Devil but not accept something as the will of God.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > Marion Morrison said:
> ...


the confirmation bias of who goes to church and why doesnt really tell me anything...literally at all, about the origins of...existence itself

what proof do i have regarding the age of the universe? that starts with the speed of light. i didnt calculate it myself, but i know that its used in the real world to make many, many things work and so in terms of the reality im experiencing, and i cant speak for you....
.but for me, the calculation for the speed of light seems legit......

and from that, many folks across a variety of disciplines are able to determine the age of the universe in its current state...


not like....just one guy, and everyone simply believes him


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## Divine Wind (Aug 30, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > Marion Morrison said:
> ...


The age of the universe is pretty well established by the same type of people who proved the Moon isn't made of cheese.  Putting it into a Western/John Wayne context, it's like a tracker being able to tell how old a campfire is or a hoof-print.  The tracker didn't have to witness the campfire being built or dying out nor the horse that left the print in order to know how old it is. 

WMAP- Age of the Universe

How Old is the Universe?


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> G.T. How is it the cycle of life works so well in perpetuation without someone setting it up?


i didnt say nobody set it up
i also didnt say someone did
and i also dont know the universal "how" it all works..


but i do know, logically.......that simply because im ignorant of that "how," doesnt then necessarily mean "god/creator,etc"

thats not rational thinking....not the logic ive ever heard taught.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

ive never seen a creator rationally proven
ive never seen a creator rationally disproven

but i can rationally say why i dont know of any, and havent seen any rational or obligatory reasoning to believe in any creator, and especially one of the ones born of our religions

i have these talks to double check i didnt miss that rationale....somewhere.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 30, 2017)

frigidweirdo said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


Feel free to postulate such a "better system".


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...


To me, its like eating a food thats nasty...

and like...im not a better cook to know how to make that food less nasty

but i know theres some cooks with the solution


(bad analogy cuz i can actually cook, quite sexily : 0    )


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## Divine Wind (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > frigidweirdo said:
> ...


I like what Churchill said 

"_Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. *Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time*.…_"

The problem, IMO, isn't our form of government but human nature.  Human nature is why Socialism always fails.  Human nature is why "Democracy is messy".  Human nature is the reason for all of the bad things in our society but also for all of the good things.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


I feel like we can do way better, but I dont have the how unfortunately.

Jaques Fresco has some very intriguing ideas, and personally I dont even believe in Nations.

Persuit of happiness and greed are intertwined...


for example, travelling the world makes me happy....and jet skis do, too.

eating briscuit.....makes me happy..


most things, aside from human to human relationships....that make me happy cost money.

not all...but...


most.

and even with the human to human relationships making me happy? im happy to see them happy......so, more wealth.

once we can think of a way outside of that, where happiness can be a mere circumstance of existence instead of something you have to pursue??

until then.


its gunna be majorly flawed, designed for many who will lose. (and win, and be mediocre)



im not saying winning, losing and being mediocre arent OK.....


but like the food i was talking about.....something just tells me that humanity can do better


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## Marion Morrison (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...



In other words, you're not really sure, correct?

Who are all these "Many folks"?

How do you know the speed of light calculation is correct?


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > Marion Morrison said:
> ...


i told you how i know.


theres things that wouldnt function, otherwise.

theres missions that wouldnt have worked, otherwise


im not really a conspiracy theorist


im not really sure the age of the universe is accurate??

i mean im pretty confident its accurate but i cant PROVE it.


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## Marion Morrison (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
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Didn't think so, don't be so quick to discount what others believe.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...


I think it's a technological limit.   Fareed Zakaria pointed out in one of his books that democracy requires a certain income level to sustain itself.  As the Bush administration found out in Iraq, it's hard to establish democracy when people are worried about water and electricity. 

We live in a world of increasing population, limited energy and decreasing resources.  Until those problems are resolved, we cannot focus upon better forms of government.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > Marion Morrison said:
> ...


i discount it based on being given no solid reasoning to believe it.

sorry you dont like that, either provide the logic or leave it at that


the speed of light has merit...i dont simply "believe" because someone said so.

theres experiments, that you can even do in your own damn house.


you asked me if i can prove the age of the universe
.....


i cant prove that we're not a fucking computer program....


but i can tell you, that based on the speed of light, the age of the universe can be extrapolated and thats the reasoning thats been provided


its pretty solid, i see not reason its not



prrrretty big difference between repeatable science and hearsay religion


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

westwall said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


Sure, I do.

Do you believe the conservation of energy to be supposition?
Is cosmic evolution supposition?
Is stellar evolution supposition?
Is chemical evolution supposition?
Is the leap from inorganic matter to a living organism supposition?
Is the evolution of life from a single cell to beings that know and create supposition?
Is consciousness a supposition?
Do you believe the universe becoming self aware of itself to be supposition?

Which one of these do you consider to be facts?

Can I use something you created as evidence even if I did not know who created it?


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


"self aware of itself" is redundant ding. less wpm, please


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


They all have the same core values, but there is only one revealed religion.  No other makes that claim.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


A where thousands of died fighting to prove.


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


Really?  When did the universe become self aware of itself?  

Did it happen during the cosmic evolution phase?  Nope
Did it happen during the stellar evolution phase?  Nope
Did it happen during the chemical evolution phase?  Nope
Did it happen when inorganic matter made the leap to living organisms?  Nope

It happened when man became self aware. So I don't see how it is redundant.  How exactly is that redundant, GT?


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


That has nothing to do with the other religions never making that claim.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


do.you know what i.meant by its redundant?

it means you say "self aware".....thats a stand alone.


you dont add "of itself"


self was already the subject


aye yaye yaye


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


also, aside from being grammatically incorrect - you cannot speak to the possibility of aliens and their awareness - 

but your theory has so many holes like that its like having a discussion with a wall


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...


I include aliens.  Intelligence is intelligence.  I never said we were special.  We live in a universe where the laws or such that given enough time and the right conditions beings that know and create will eventually arise.  Their existence was pre-ordained by the laws of nature which existed before space and time were created.


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...


Nope.  It is not redundant.  Self aware refers to the universe becoming aware of itself.  All matter and energy which exists today - including the energy and matter which makes you who you are - existed when space and time were created.  At that point the universe was not aware of itself.  The matter and energy had no consciousness.  There was a point in time where matter evolved to the point that the universe became aware (i.e. conscious) of itself (i.e. self aware).


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


"self aware of itself" is a redundant phrase...

sorry thats over your head.



you simply say "self aware"... and that covers it.


you dont add "of itself," it makes it a redundant statement.

and you keep doing it, so youre likely not self aware, in this case


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


"it happened when MAN became self aware"


is what you said.


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## Marion Morrison (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...



Okay, so you want to deny God, the creator of all around you, I get it. I suppose your cut fingers heal up by Darwin's evolution. 


Rod Serling was a Mormon.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > Marion Morrison said:
> ...


no, i dont deny or affirm and i see no logical reason for either case

and all thats around me isnt necessarily a creation.


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...


My goodness you are a nit picker, aren't you?


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...


More nit picking?


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


its not my fault it took you 4 fucking posts to understand, jesus fuckin christ


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## Marion Morrison (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...


\

So do tell: What is it?


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## Marion Morrison (Aug 30, 2017)

Sorry, I'm not ding, I'm more direct, to-the-point, and in tune with the world turning.


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...


It's just your fault for nit picking it in the first place, right?  If you had better arguments you wouldn't need to do that.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > Marion Morrison said:
> ...


did i say i knew?

i said im looking for reason....logic, something that dictates that things are a certain way because of the impossibility of the contrary

it doesnt mean i know, or am all knowing...
..it.means that nobodys yet to present the logic to me that proves god is



versus isnt


and vice versa


and you cant say creator without proving the subject was creatED.....in logic.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> Sorry, I'm not ding, I'm more direct, to-the-point, and in tune with the world turning.


its annoying to even TRY to keep with all.of.his errors and baseless assertions


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## Marion Morrison (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...



How can it all happen without some intelligent design?


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > Marion Morrison said:
> ...


do i have to answer that, to prove that it CAN happen without a designer?

is it contingent on my or anyones ability to explain it..


or rather contingent on reality??

in other words, just because humans cant explain something, doesnt mean its unexplainable.


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## Marion Morrison (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...




So who can explain it  then?


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## Marion Morrison (Aug 30, 2017)

The way life works on this earth is too complicated for human minds to have been the origins.


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, I'm not ding, I'm more direct, to-the-point, and in tune with the world turning.
> ...


GT, you are the one who has no basis for your belief.  Your belief is you don't know.  I have provided tons of basis for my beliefs.  Intelligence is the pinnacle of creation.  It arose through the laws of nature.  Laws which existed before space and time.  Intelligence is behind rules and we live in a universe defined by rules. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence.  So rather than being a late out growth, intelligence has always existed as the source or matrix for the universe.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > Marion Morrison said:
> ...


i cant answer that either....

but the way my brain works, is that im not taking someone's word for it ..




because its the ultimate question..


and in terms of god or not god, man has not proven it.

thats why it obviously requires faith, to believe.

if it was simply impossible to be anything BUT the way one of the books wrote it, there wouldnt be other books, there wouldnt be agnostics and atheists....and i doubt thered be so many sinners willing to face eternal punishment.


existence itself is not something yet explained in any way that makes it impossible to the contrary, and ill continue to hope that it is one day.....but it might be impossible for us


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## Marion Morrison (Aug 30, 2017)

Who is man to prove God's existence?

Think on that a minute.

Are you trying to justify self-faggotus tendencies or what?

The main reason God obliterated Sodom and Gomorrah is they tried to rape angels.

That's just foul.
They deserved what they got.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > Marion Morrison said:
> ...


1. you dont know what existed before space and time...thats an assertion

2. intelligence is the "pinnacle of creation," is an assertion

you make assertions and believe in your heart of hearts that thats how to prove something....

its nit, all it does is show your lack of logic and reasoning.



and also, imagination


making assertions doesnt prove the impossibility of the contrary, it simply proves your beliefs are not on solid ground, otherwise, the contrary WOULD be impossible.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> Who is man to prove God's existence?
> 
> Think on that a minute.
> 
> ...


so says some story that may be made up?


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...


Ummm... the creation of space and time followed rules (i.e. quantum mechanics and conservation) which means rules existed before space and time.  I have not read one cosmologist or physicist that does not believe the universe was created following the laws of nature.  So you are wrong, we do know that the laws of nature existed before space and time.  

Name something more advanced or complex in the universe than consciousness and intelligence.


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## Marion Morrison (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> > Who is man to prove God's existence?
> ...



Or not.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> G.T. said:
> 
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> > ding said:
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uh, no.

that it followed rules doesnt mean the rules didnt pop into existence when the object of discussion did...thats an assertion..JUST another one

and neil degrasse tyson his fucking self says the laws of physics dont necessarily precede the big bang

not that an appeal to.an authority even has much merit

assertion =/= logical proof


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> G.T. said:
> 
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> > Marion Morrison said:
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true but, im not presented anything in my consciousness or otherwise to take it at face value


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## Marion Morrison (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
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> > G.T. said:
> ...



Has Neil Degrasse Tyson proven there was a "big bang"?

No, he has not. Imo, he is a giant douche.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > Marion Morrison said:
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nobody has, but its the most likely supposition looking at the evidence to date

its def. not "irrefutable"


he is a douche.


a smart douche, but i dont like him


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## Marion Morrison (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. Just look at what information you've been presented with, and draw your conclusions from there, k?

Mine may be different than yours.

Grr. I gotta get a mobo with a ps2 keyboard.


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> ding said:
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Actually it does mean that space and time were created by rules, Einstein.


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> ding said:
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Can you name something more advanced or complex in the universe than consciousness and intelligence?


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> G.T. said:
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no, it doesnt.

thats the problem when you dont understand what prescriptive and descriptive's differences are...and the implications of said differences.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> G.T. Just look at what information you've been presented with, and draw your conclusions from there, k?
> 
> Mine may be different than yours.
> 
> Grr. I gotta get a mobo with a ps2 keyboard.


thats what i do do, but i also pry others FOR theirs

knocking info back and fro duddnt hurt nobody..

shouldnt

anyhoo, whats a mobo? ps2 like the gaming platform?


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> G.T. said:
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does its existence, or non existence.....depend on my knowledge of its existence or non existence?


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> ding said:
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Ummm... yes, since you claim it is not the pinnacle of creation.  Surely, you must know something that is more advanced or complex in the universe than consciousness and intelligence, right?


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> ding said:
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You are arguing with a world renowned cosmologist, not me.  Did you even listen to what he said?


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> G.T. said:
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no, i didnt claim its NOT

i claim you dont KNOW that it is


HUUUGGGGEEE


BIGLY BIGLY BIGLY difference, ding


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> G.T. said:
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i stream cosmologists, physicists, astrologers and philosophers in lieu of music in my headset for most of my waking hours


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> ding said:
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Do you know of anything more complex and advanced in our universe than intelligence and consciousness?  Yes or no?


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> G.T. said:
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i asked you the question that pre-refutes the line of reasoning you're attempting to follow.

its called saving TIME.

Does their existence, or non existence, DEPEND ON ME OR YOU KNOWING they exist, or dont?

That eliminates that line of reasoning before it even starts. Do i need to EXPLAIN THAT TOO?


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> ding said:
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"In the very beginning, there was a void, a curious form of vacuum, a nothingness containing no space, no time, no matter, no light, no sound. Yet the laws of nature were in place and this curious vacuum held potential.."  Leon Lederman, American experimental physicist and Nobel Laureate


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> ding said:
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If you don't know anything which is more complex and advanced than intelligence and consciousness, then intelligence and consciousness is the most advanced and complex thing that you know about in the universe, right?


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> G.T. said:
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Do you know why I dont like you? Thats an aside.


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## Taz (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


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No one can know what was before the Big Bang. Only fools pretend to know.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


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which means nothing.

knowing about something or not does not speak to its existence or not


dont you understand that?


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
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The laws of nature existed before space and time.  Space and time were created per the laws of quantum mechanics and the law of conservation.  


"In the very beginning, there was a void, a curious form of vacuum, a nothingness containing no space, no time, no matter, no light, no sound. Yet the laws of nature were in place and this curious vacuum held potential.." Leon Lederman, American experimental physicist and Nobel Laureate


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
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even physicists admit they dont know....despite any quote he can mine up.


thats why theres no "pre big bang" theory thats been accepted


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## Taz (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> G.T. said:
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God would be the pinnacle of creation.


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> ding said:
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It means that intelligence and consciousness is the most advanced and complex thing that you know about in the universe.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> G.T. said:
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uh, no it doesnt

it just means "that we currently know of"....not ultimately


thats an assertion, the thing you dont know is a flaw, in your reasoning capability.


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## Taz (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> Taz said:
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You and your slightly drunk friend in the video don't know what there was in the very beginning.


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
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Painters are not the painting.  Besides, you don't believe in God so you can't believe that God is the pinnacle of creation.


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## Taz (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> Taz said:
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But the painter is the most complex thing in the room. Isn't that what you're going after?


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

Taz said:


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You can't watch a 6 minute vid in 2 minutes.  It's not possible.

Alexander Vilenkin
Director, Institute of Cosmology, and
L. and J. Bernstein Professor of Evolutionary Science

Alexander Vilenkin

Alexander Vilenkin (Russian: Алекса́ндр Виле́нкин,Ukrainian: Олександр Віленкін; 13 May 1949, Kharkiv,[1] Ukraine, Soviet Union) is Professor of Physics and Director of the Institute of Cosmology at Tufts University. A theoretical physicist who has been working in the field of cosmology for 25 years, Vilenkin has written over 150 papers. Soon after Paul Steinhardt presented the first example of eternal inflation, Vilenkin showed that eternal inflation is generic.[2] Working with Arvin Borde and Alan Guth, In 2003, he showed that a period of inflation has to have a beginning and there has to be a period that precedes it.[3] This is a problem because, without a theory to explain the conditions before inflation, it is not possible to determine how likely it is for inflation ever to occur. Some considerations suggest that the probability is very small, resulting the "initial conditions problem.”

He also introduced the idea of quantum creation of the universe from a quantum vacuum. His work in cosmic strings has been pivotal.

Vilenkin received his undergraduate degree in physics in 1971 in the former Soviet Union (University of Kharkiv). He later moved to the United States, where he obtained his Ph.D. at Buffalo. His work has been featured in numerous newspaper and magazine articles in the United States, Europe, Soviet Union, and Japan, and in many popular books.

Vilenkin sometimes wears sunglasses when giving seminars which give him a characteristic appearance. Apparently these are because his eyes are sensitive to bright projector lights.

Alexander Vilenkin - Wikipedia


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## Taz (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


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"Vilenkin sometimes wears sunglasses when giving seminars which give him a characteristic appearance. Apparently these are because his eyes are sensitive to bright projector lights." I get that too when I'm hung over.


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
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Do you believe in God?  If not, you are making an argument even you don't believe.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> Taz said:
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putting aside that an appeal to an authority doesnt make a good logical argument...

because anyone can appeal to an authority thats an atheist and say herrr deee deerrrr seeeee!!!


but putting that aside, you dont even understand what hes saying.


if the laws of nature are DESCRIPTIVE, they are in effect patterns that nature follows and how we commuicate them..

not literal LAWS in the sense youre implying. 

aye yaye yayeee


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## Taz (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> Taz said:
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I believe that a god is possible, but not yet proven. But in the religious story of Creation, god is the most complex being. Not intelligence or being self-aware.


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## Marion Morrison (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. Just look at what information you've been presented with, and draw your conclusions from there, k?
> ...



A mobo=motherboard, and PS2 is the old-school keyboard interface that is mo' bettah!

This thing sucks.


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> ding said:
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Actually that is a fact, GT.  You don't know of anything in the universe which is more complex and advanced than intelligence and consciousness.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> G.T. said:
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No you have not rationally proven that it's a fact and I sincerely doubt you're going to and if you think that you've done so then you should start there with fixing your uhhh... reasoning


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> ding said:
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Anyone who scoffs at accepting knowledge on authority would have to go through life knowing next to nothing as over 90% of what we know has been accepted on authority of others.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> G.T. said:
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So if I post a theoretical physicist that is also an atheist than you no longer believe in God? see how dumb that is dingbat


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> ding said:
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I'm pretty sure I understand what he is saying.  Here's his own words on this subject.

If the universe is expanding then it must have a beginning. If you follow it backwards in time, then any object must come to a boundary of space time. You cannot continue that history indefinitely. This is still true even if a universe has periods of contraction. It still has to have a beginning if expansion over weights the contraction. Physicists have been uncomfortable with the idea of a beginning since the work of Friedman which showed that the solutions of Einstein's equation showed that the universe had a beginning. The problem with a cyclical universe is with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. If it is a periodic universe then the entropy will increase with each cycle. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is a fundamental law of nature which tells us that entropy can only increase or stay the same. Entropy can never decrease. Which means that in a finite amount of time, a finite system will reach a maximum state of disorder which is called thermal equilibrium and then it will stay in that state. A cyclical universe cannot avoid this problem. The model by Steinhardt and Turok does not have this problem. They have cycles but the size of the cycle increases with time. So the next cycle is bigger than the first. So in this sense the total entropy of the universe still increases but the entropy you see in your limited region may not grow. This model does no contradict the inflation model because since each cycle is bigger than the previous cycle you still have expansion. And since you still have expansion, it still has to have a beginning because if you follow it backwards in time, then any object must come to a boundary of space time. The best explanation for how the universe began is the inflation model. It is possible for matter to have a beginning.In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

ding, one authority to another - appealing to one guy who believes one thing doesnt make a factual case. aye yaye yaye


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> ding said:
> 
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Except that you'd be skipping steps.  I am not posting the beliefs of someone who is making an argument for God.  I am posting the scientific beliefs (from two scientists) that the laws of nature were in place before space and time were created.

So if you want to find a scientist who can explain how the laws of nature were not in place before space and time, I'd love to hear about it because I don't believe there is one out there who makes that claim.


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> ding, one authority to another - appealing to one guy who believes one thing doesnt make a factual case. aye yaye yaye


Do you know of any scientist who believes that the laws of nature were not in place before space and time were created?

Do you know of anything in the universe which is more complex or advanced than intelligence?


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> ding said:
> 
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Of course I have proven it.  It is a fact, GT, that you don't know of anything in the universe which is more complex and advanced than intelligence and consciousness.  Prove me wrong, name something?  You can't.


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## ding (Aug 30, 2017)

G.T. said:


> ding, one authority to another - appealing to one guy who believes one thing doesnt make a factual case. aye yaye yaye


I'm not the one who is arguing against science, GT, you are.  Name one scientist who believes the laws of nature were not in place before space and time were created.  You can't.  

Name one thing that is more complex than intelligence.  You can't.

Yet you persist in arguing about both.


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> G.T. said:
> 
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asserting something is not proving it dingbat


the only way you CAN even rationally prove whats the most complex and advanced aspect of this universe, is LITERALLY knowing ALL which exists in it

THATS THE ONLY WAY, goof


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > ding, one authority to another - appealing to one guy who believes one thing doesnt make a factual case. aye yaye yaye
> ...


of course i can

in fact, MOST physicists say they DONT KNOW if the laws of physics pre-existed the big bang

MOST!

You dont do much by way of research besides confirmation bias based research, seems like


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## G.T. (Aug 30, 2017)

It's not hard to find one when it's the very first search result in your browser of Millions


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## Taz (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > ding, one authority to another - appealing to one guy who believes one thing doesnt make a factual case. aye yaye yaye
> ...


Quantum physics is more complicated than human intelligence, which is why we don't understand it.

Real scientists don't make dumb claims like pretending to know what was before the BB.


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## sealybobo (Aug 30, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> Funny how 5 out of 6 engineers I know are avid churchgoers.
> 
> Wait..make that 6 out of 7.
> 
> Right about now, I'm trying to remember who the outlier is. I know it's someone that's not related.


What kind of engineers?  

This is called Cognitive Dissonance. 

the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioral decisions and attitude change.

In other words they believe despite the fact there is no facts logic or reason to believe other than wishful thinking.  
Ask them how they are able to block science out of their heads and believe in religion.


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## Marion Morrison (Aug 30, 2017)

sealybobo said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> > Funny how 5 out of 6 engineers I know are avid churchgoers.
> ...



*In other words GFY guy.

Your base is garbage,k?

I just got off the phone with one. You wanna dispute something or something?
Ask me the name of the Ohio Civil Engineer, in the meantime, GFY, k?*


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## BreezeWood (Aug 30, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> BreezeWood said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


.


Divine.Wind said:


> The evidence at present points to an ever expanding universe unable to collapse and begin anew due to Dark Matter and Dark Energy. In short, the jury is still out on how the Universe will end.




that is not true, matter was expelled from a sphere from its center outward / at a finite angle (trajectory) if so it will return in unison to its origin without ever changing direction. it does not collapse but recompacts on impact when all the mass in unison returns.


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## BreezeWood (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> Really? When did the universe become self aware of itself?
> 
> 
> It happened when man became self aware. So I don't see how it is redundant. How exactly is that redundant, GT?




redundant that you only include humanity when all beings are self aware, no blade of grass from 600 million years ago to eternity will never be the same.

who's to say elements are not also self aware. the periodic table, foundation for physiological life. 

Spirits may exist we are unaware of persistent before the Big Bang.


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## Syriusly (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
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that is a faith argument.

Nothing more- nothing less.


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## Syriusly (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> Syriusly said:
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Obviously you don't know anything about the Cathars. Not only have I read the very slanted Catholic accounts of the Cathars(Catholics did propaganda pretty well) I have been to Cathar country- and have seen some of the cities that the Christian death squads sacked.

Again- your choice of Cathars as an example of 'godless Socialism' just shows you own bias.


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## Syriusly (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
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To those believers of that religion. 

Not to anyone else. 

Hell not as if Hindus believe that your 'case' for Christianity is convincing, any more than Christians believe the Hindu 'case' for religion' is convincing.


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## Syriusly (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
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Code of Hammarabi.

Churches taught morality in many ways- and I will acknowledge that some church teachings have been good- and others bad.

Do you want to argue that churches were teaching the 'correct' morality when they taught it was moral to stone an adulterous woman to death?

To put to death a man for having sex with a man?

To tell slaves to mind their owners?

When the Church divided up the New World between the Portuguese and the Spanish to conquer and enslave?


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## Syriusly (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> ChrisL said:
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## Divine Wind (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> Divine.Wind said:
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Is that the requirement?  They have to say so?  Interesting.


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## Syriusly (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> G.T. said:
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No- just your opinion. Coupled with your faith.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 30, 2017)

ding said:


> Taz said:
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A favorite ploy by atheists.  They claim to have rules, but will never prove what rules they live by or why they should live by any rules.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 30, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> I see a lot of hate, anger and unhappiness.  That is what I see.


Yes.  Why do you think that is?  Are atheists any better at it than theists?  Or vice versa?  What is the fundamental problem, in your opinion?


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## Divine Wind (Aug 30, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
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Bump.  Sorry, I must have missed your reply since I was working all day.


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## featherlite (Aug 30, 2017)

This topic has been beat to hell and back. What outcome could come from this.
Unless your a christian or a gay person... you probably dont have an informed or experienced based opinion of either side.


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## Syriusly (Aug 30, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Divine.Wind said:
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Nope- frankly I have been busy and have forgotten.

_It is quite clear that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about gays- despise gays.
_
As I said- sizable portion hate gays.

Do you have any disagreement that when Tipsy said the one thing she found positive about ISIS was their killing gays- we can agree she 'despises' gays? 

I want to make sure we can find any agreement here. 

So I will go ahead and start compiling that list for you.


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## Syriusly (Aug 30, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ding said:
> 
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Okay- show me all the atheists who claim to have rules?

Matter of fact- use me as an example- when have I claimed to have rules- but will never prove what rules I live by.


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## Taz (Aug 30, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
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> > ding said:
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Atheists live by the rule of law. Now you know.


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## LittleNipper (Aug 30, 2017)

Taz said:


> Syriusly said:
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 The 10 Commandments?


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## Divine Wind (Aug 30, 2017)

Taz said:


> Syriusly said:
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Like Nazis?  The rule of law was killing kikes.  Are you good with that?  During WWII, the rule of law was to imprison that Japanese?  No problem for you there either?


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## Divine Wind (Aug 30, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
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People hate.  IMO, mostly out of fear.  Still, you seem to relish attacking the religious without looking at the bigger picture.  Why? 

I know little about "Tipsy" and cannot vouch an informed opinion.  I can vouch the opinion that killing anyone for anything is wrong.  I'm against the death penalty.  I'm also against laws condemning actions between consenting adults.


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## Syriusly (Aug 30, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
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Frankly I don't have a problem with 'the religious'- I have a problem with 'the religious' who want to tell Americans we should treat gays differently because of some fairy tale they believe in. 

I would say about half of my friends are religious- mostly Christian, a few Buddhists and Muslims-  I don't have a problem with any of them- nor do I attack their faith. And they are not telling everyone we know that gays should be thrown off of rooftops.


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## Syriusly (Aug 30, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
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So you can't have an informed opinion about whether someone 'hates' gays when they say:

Throwing gays off rooftops was the only decent thing Isis ever did.


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## Syriusly (Aug 30, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
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Maybe I missed your response to this.....


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## Divine Wind (Aug 30, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


Sure you can.  Does an intelligent person question some asshole who gives a quote, but doesn't link the source?  Your opinion, please.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 30, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


Stalin and Mao were atheists and had rules.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 30, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


We can agree on authoritarians.  We can agree on assholes who seek to tell others what to believe.  

Here's the thing: I see no difference between you and some of your friends than the biggest fucking religious asshole hypocrites on the planet.  

Please tell me why I should side with you rather than some dipshit religious asshole.


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## DGS49 (Aug 30, 2017)

Every major world religion condemns male - on - male sodomy.  Like it or not,

(1) homosexual "sex" is a biological adsurdity.  The commingling of the digestive system and the reproductive system may induce orgasm, but it's still sticking your dick up another man's ass, and engaging in a grotesque parody of sexual intercourse.

(2) normal men are repulsed by the very idea of homosexual intercourse, in all its forms, even while similar acts with a woman (i.e., oral and anal sex) are considered quite desirable.

(3) no rational moralist believes that there is a human right to copulate with whomever is the object of one's desire, even if that person consents.  (E.g., sibling, parent, someone else's spouse, etc.)

(4)  traditional religious teachings - even assuming their is no "god" - merely codify the wisdom of a thousand generations.  But that wisdom, in brief, is "hate the sin; love the sinner."  But the sinner who sins proudly?  The sinner who publicly asserts a right and intention to continue in  sin indefinitely (aka "gay marriage"), maybe not.


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## ChrisL (Aug 30, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...



Well, to be fair, the poster was probably not being serious.  People say all kinds of things around here, as you know.  And I actually did take the time to follow the quote in your signature line, and she did add "not because they are gay but because they are obnoxious."  So it is a bit disingenuous for you to exclude that important part of the quote, no?


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## mdk (Aug 30, 2017)

I don't care if anyone finds my marriage sinful. Just leave me the fuck alone and I promise to do the same.


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## ChrisL (Aug 30, 2017)

mdk said:


> I don't care if anyone finds my marriage sinful. Just leave me the fuck alone and I promise to do the same.



Don't let them make you feel bad about your marriage.  There is nothing wrong with it, and you have found a person that you love and enjoy, and that is the only thing that matters.    And you are a great person too.


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## K9Buck (Aug 30, 2017)

mdk said:


> I don't care if anyone finds my marriage sinful. Just leave me the fuck alone and I promise to do the same.



I'm a Christian and voted for Trump and I agree with you.


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## K9Buck (Aug 30, 2017)

Taz said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



Bullshit.


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## mdk (Aug 30, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> mdk said:
> 
> 
> > I don't care if anyone finds my marriage sinful. Just leave me the fuck alone and I promise to do the same.
> ...



Nothing said could make me feel bad about my relationship. I have the approval of my friends/family and that is all that matters. The rest can deal with it or get bent. lol


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## ChrisL (Aug 30, 2017)

mdk said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > mdk said:
> ...



Good.  I hate to think of you reading some of this crap and feeling bad.  Some people are ignoramuses.


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## K9Buck (Aug 30, 2017)

mdk said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > mdk said:
> ...



I don't know if you believe that we have a creator but, let me assure you, our creator loves you and your partner very much.  Our creator doesn't hate, only man does that.


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## mdk (Aug 30, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> mdk said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



The only people that can _really_ make me feel bad are already on my side. The rest is just noise.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 31, 2017)

DGS49 said:


> Every major world religion condemns male - on - male sodomy.  Like it or not,
> 
> (1) homosexual "sex" is a biological adsurdity.  The commingling of the digestive system and the reproductive system may induce orgasm, but it's still sticking your dick up another man's ass, and engaging in a grotesque parody of sexual intercourse.
> 
> ...


Yet female-on-female sex sells well in the porn industry.  Go figure.


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## Taz (Aug 31, 2017)

LittleNipper said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


That's the rule of make believe.


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## Taz (Aug 31, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


I invoke Godwin's Law, so you lose. Please try again.


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## Taz (Aug 31, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


GW Bush is a Christian who had rules but it didn't stop him from destroying 2 countries for no good reason.


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## Taz (Aug 31, 2017)

K9Buck said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
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So prove that atheists break the rule of law as a component of being atheist.


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## Bonzi (Aug 31, 2017)

mdk said:


> ChrisL said:
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> > mdk said:
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It's not like heterosexuals (and people of all categories) don't deal with the same thing.  If you are married and fall in love with someone else, it's considered a sin by Christians (well, if you act on it anyway).  In fact, it's WORSE actually, because not only do Christians frown on it, pretty much everyone one else does too (believer or not).  The difference is, homosexuality is in the process of moving from "taboo" to mainstream, so there is more outward resistance.


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## rightwinger (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> mdk said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



Christians have tended to "wink" at infidelity....sins of the flesh
While they frown upon it...they are pretty forgiving

Homosexuality cannot be forgiven because it is "yucky"
Homosexuals holding hands or showing affection enrages them

No cake for you!


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## mdk (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> It's not like heterosexuals (and people of all categories) don't deal with the same thing. If you are married and fall in love with someone else, it's considered a sin by Christians (well, if you act on it anyway). In fact, it's WORSE actually, because not only do Christians frown on it, pretty much everyone one else does too (believer or not). The difference is, homosexuality is in the process of moving from "taboo" to mainstream, so there is more outward resistance



Infidelity is about as frowned on as getting a speeding ticket in our society. Sure, you shouldn't do it, but it's mostly forgiven and forgot about rather quickly.


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## Bonzi (Aug 31, 2017)

mdk said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > It's not like heterosexuals (and people of all categories) don't deal with the same thing. If you are married and fall in love with someone else, it's considered a sin by Christians (well, if you act on it anyway). In fact, it's WORSE actually, because not only do Christians frown on it, pretty much everyone one else does too (believer or not). The difference is, homosexuality is in the process of moving from "taboo" to mainstream, so there is more outward resistance
> ...


In a sense, yet, if talking with people I know, at work etc., if someone is cheating on their mate, people are disgusted and talk badly about them, but if talking about a gay couple, it's looked at as a nice thing or at a minimum a too each their own thing


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## ChrisL (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> mdk said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



AS they should.  A married person made a commitment and an oath to God, so knowing that why would you go and "fall in love" with someone else?  Don't put yourself in those kinds of situations.  With homosexuality, they are not HURTING another person.


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## ChrisL (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> mdk said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



Because the gay couple has NOT done anything wrong, like cheat on their spouse.


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## ChrisL (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> mdk said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



So do you agree that adultery is a worse "sin" than homosexuality?


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## Bonzi (Aug 31, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > mdk said:
> ...


And you prove my point. Thanks!


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## ChrisL (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



Well, the gay couple hasn't committed any "sins."  They aren't harming anyone else.  Adulterers are selfish, self centered and hurt others.


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## Bonzi (Aug 31, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > mdk said:
> ...


I think it is frowned upon more in society for sure...as for win, if you believe in sin, God would be the judge


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## ChrisL (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



I didn't ask that.  I asked you if you felt that adultery was a bigger sin than homosexuality.  Yes or no?


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## mdk (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> In a sense, yet, if talking with people I know, at work etc., if someone is cheating on their mate, people are disgusted and talk badly about them, but if talking about a gay couple, it's looked at as a nice thing or at a minimum a too each their own thing



Cheating should be looked down upon, gay or straight. Breaking an oath is one of the most dishonorable things one can do; however, they are both sins at the end of the day if you're religious.


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## ChrisL (Aug 31, 2017)

mdk said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > In a sense, yet, if talking with people I know, at work etc., if someone is cheating on their mate, people are disgusted and talk badly about them, but if talking about a gay couple, it's looked at as a nice thing or at a minimum a too each their own thing
> ...



That is what SOME of the religious folks think apparently.  They just love judging except when it's done to them.  Lol.


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## rightwinger (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



Given the man we elected President

It does not appear that infidelity has much influence on the Christian vote


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## mdk (Aug 31, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> mdk said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



Yeah, some certainly do. Those types sure love to throw your sins in your face, but suddenly change their tune to "we're all sinners" when it's thrown back at them.


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## ChrisL (Aug 31, 2017)

mdk said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > mdk said:
> ...



Well, I really don't see how homosexuality is a sin at all.  You can't help that.  You aren't treating anyone else badly because of it.


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## ChrisL (Aug 31, 2017)




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## Bonzi (Aug 31, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> mdk said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


The only people that need concern themselves with sin are believers, should be irrelevant to others. If you believe anyway, only God is the ultimate judge. No person is really in any place to say, only have opinions


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## Bonzi (Aug 31, 2017)

mdk said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > mdk said:
> ...


That may be the dumbest and most defensive post I've ever seen from you....


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## ChrisL (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> mdk said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



It wasn't dumb at all.  It is totally true.


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## mdk (Aug 31, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Well, I really don't see how homosexuality is a sin at all. You can't help that. You aren't treating anyone else badly because of it.



Whether or not someone considers my life sinful is entirely irrelevant to me, that is until they attempt to use or craft laws to harm me.


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## ChrisL (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > mdk said:
> ...



Yet, you started the thread asking a question.  Maybe you should have specified that only other religious peoples can answer.


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## ChrisL (Aug 31, 2017)

mdk said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I really don't see how homosexuality is a sin at all. You can't help that. You aren't treating anyone else badly because of it.
> ...



Maybe so, but they are still hypocritical assholes.


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## mdk (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> That may be the dumbest and most defensive post I've ever seen from you....



The truth can be brutal at times.


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## ChrisL (Aug 31, 2017)

To think that your idea of "sin" which you accuse others of doing and which you shove in our faces every chance you get is IRRELEVANT to any of us is highly arrogant attitude.


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## rightwinger (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> mdk said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



I agree with him


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## ChrisL (Aug 31, 2017)

While I may not believe in any gods, that doesn't mean I don't RESPECT the teachings of Jesus.  He was a smart man, way ahead of his time.


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## Bonzi (Aug 31, 2017)

mdk said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I really don't see how homosexuality is a sin at all. You can't help that. You aren't treating anyone else badly because of it.
> ...


Seems to me the trend is laws passed to protect you, which, is as is should be if that is what "we the people" feel is best


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## ChrisL (Aug 31, 2017)

Well, gay people are tax paying American citizens, not criminals.  They should be able to enjoy all the rights and privileges (including marriage) that any other American citizen gets to enjoy.  Otherwise we are NOT the "land of the free" or the "home of the brave."


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## Bonzi (Aug 31, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > mdk said:
> ...


Okay, well...I admit some for sure do that....so don't say I never admit I'm wrong....


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## Bonzi (Aug 31, 2017)

So anyway, the question was are people wrong for believing Homosexuality is a sin? Simple yes or no question


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## Bonzi (Aug 31, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Well, gay people are tax paying American citizens, not criminals.  They should be able to enjoy all the rights and privileges (including marriage) that any other American citizen gets to enjoy.  Otherwise we are NOT the "land of the free" or the "home of the brave."


And they do


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## ChrisL (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Well, gay people are tax paying American citizens, not criminals.  They should be able to enjoy all the rights and privileges (including marriage) that any other American citizen gets to enjoy.  Otherwise we are NOT the "land of the free" or the "home of the brave."
> ...



Yet they had to fight for it, and they still have to fight against people who wish to condemn them to "second class citizenry" because they are "sinners" or because of another person's belief system.  Absurd!


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## ChrisL (Aug 31, 2017)

Anyways, I do like having these discussions with Bonzi or in Bonzi threads.  At least she *tries *to remain civil and respectful of other people's views.


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## Bonzi (Aug 31, 2017)

Some do, but someone truly vested in the Christian belief system would only want to not have it condoned by the government would not like it because they believe (rightly or wrongly) that God will remove a hedge of protection on our Nation. 
These same people, if they had their way, would prohibit divorce as well, except for situations specified by Jesus himself


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## ChrisL (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> So anyway, the question was are people wrong for believing Homosexuality is a sin? Simple yes or no question



People can believe anything they want to believe as long as they don't infringe on another person's rights or privileges as an American citizen because of their beliefs.  So, no, I can't say that their thoughts and/or opinions are "wrong" per se.  I think they are misguided and rather ignorant though.


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## mdk (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> mdk said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



In some states that is the case. I neither want nor require the law to advantage me for being gay, but it certainly shouldn't disadvantage me either.


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## mdk (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> So anyway, the question was are people wrong for believing Homosexuality is a sin? Simple yes or no question



No, they are not.


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## ChrisL (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Some do, but someone truly vested in the Christian belief system would only want to not have it condoned by the government would not like it because they believe (rightly or wrongly) that God will remove a hedge of protection on our Nation.
> These same people, if they had their way, would prohibit divorce as well, except for situations specified by Jesus himself



And so?  You are a religious person.  What are you opinions on these matters?  Why don't you make some contributions to your thread?


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## ChrisL (Aug 31, 2017)

Is Bonzi afraid to share her personal opinions on the matter because somebody may "judge" her?    Be brave, Bonzi.


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## hobelim (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> So anyway, the question was are people wrong for believing Homosexuality is a sin? Simple yes or no question




Yes, they are wrong.  I suspect God would have less puerile interests....


It is evidence of an indwelling perversion that makes people assume the law is about sexual conduct when there are many instances where men lie down with another man as if they were a submissive wife that has nothing whatever to do with gay sex..

Look at shimons obsession with Hashevs butt.  Isn't that queer?


Many men make their livings submitting to what some other man tells them to do....isn't  that gay?


How many men won't fart without consulting their pastor.   Isn't that a little light in the loafers?


Many men who claim to never have had sex give up natural relations with women and swear obedience to the Pope and as if they were a woman and he was their husband and master...for life.  isn't that an abomination?

Other peoples sexual preferences should be the least of these hypocrites concerns.

If four men were standing before God and two were married sexually active gay men that never went to church and the other two were married to the Pope, never had sex, and screwed up peoples minds as a religious duty,  who do you think God would have an issue with?


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## Bonzi (Aug 31, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Some do, but someone truly vested in the Christian belief system would only want to not have it condoned by the government would not like it because they believe (rightly or wrongly) that God will remove a hedge of protection on our Nation.
> ...


Personally, I'm pretty much a flake ... So, that being said, people will live how they want. I believe in a higher power and that there are ways to live and rules that if follow would give a society a better chance of being productive and healthy.  But no, I don't think it's "wrong" to believe anything.  

I don't think anyone can "force" beliefs on anyone either.

We all have a voice, and sometimes we just need to be patient with one another, but not allow ourselves to be doormats or someone's punching bag


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## ChrisL (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



Hmm.  A very carefully worded post while still avoiding really giving your own opinions on whether or not homosexuality is wrong to you.  Very clever.  Touche.  Lol.


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## Bonzi (Aug 31, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



Not really, I simply am not sure....I don't feel right making that judgment....


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## Syriusly (Aug 31, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...



Stalin and Mao were subject to no rules- they gave rules to others. 

Here was your claim:

A favorite ploy by atheists.  They claim to have rules, but will never prove what rules they live by or why they should live by any rules

I asked you to show how that applies to me- an atheist.

Remember you were the one who got your panties in a wad when I claimed that a large portion of USMB posters who posted against gays hate or detest gays.

You have claimed that 'atheists'- which includes all atheists- not a 'large portion' 'claim to have rules, but will never prove what rules they live by or why they should live by any rules'

Naming Mao and Stalin- infamous mass murderers- not only doesn't prove that they meet your claim- but has nothing to do with the millions and millions of atheists who are not murderers.

So prove that we atheists claim to have rules but will never prove what rules that they live by.

Start with me.


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## Syriusly (Aug 31, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



You can use the search function at USMB like i can. 

But please continue to rationalize about how this remark:
Throwing gays off rooftops was the only decent thing Isis ever did

Is not indicative of hatred towards gays. Hell- you haven't even disagreed with it.


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 31, 2017)

DGS49 said:


> (1) homosexual "sex" is a biological adsurdity.  The commingling of the digestive system and the reproductive system may induce orgasm, but it's still sticking your dick up another man's ass, and engaging in a grotesque parody of sexual intercourse.



By that measure, masturbation, and oral sex are both 'biological absurdities'. 

Basically you are just saying you find it 'icky' 

While apparently having no problem with a man sticking his dick up a woman's ass in 'grotesque parody of sexual intercourse'.


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## Syriusly (Aug 31, 2017)

DGS49 said:


> (2) normal men are repulsed by the very idea of homosexual intercourse, in all its forms, even while similar acts with a woman (i.e., oral and anal sex) are considered quite desirable..


So you are saying that hetero men are oriented towards women instead of men? Wow.

Just like homo men are oriented towards men instead of women.

Note how you consider anal sex with a woman to be desirable- but anal sex between men 'a grotesque parody of sexual intercourse'......


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## dblack (Aug 31, 2017)

The problem starts when people try to enforce morality with government


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## Syriusly (Aug 31, 2017)

DGS49 said:


> (3) no rational moralist believes that there is a human right to copulate with whomever is the object of one's desire, even if that person consents.  (E.g., sibling, parent, someone else's spouse, etc.)



Riddle me this:

Why is incest illegal- and considered immoral? 

(and it isn't about producing idiots)


----------



## Syriusly (Aug 31, 2017)

DGS49 said:


> (4)  traditional religious teachings - even assuming their is no "god" - merely codify the wisdom of a thousand generations.  But that wisdom, in brief, is "hate the sin; love the sinner."  But the sinner who sins proudly?  The sinner who publicly asserts a right and intention to continue in  sin indefinitely (aka "gay marriage"), maybe not.



Jesus says that to divorce and remarry is adultery- so persons like Donald Trump and Newt Gingrich- both on their third marriages are both sinners who have publicly asserted a right and intention to continue to sin indefinitely- both proud of their sinful marriages to their third wives. 

Do you view their marriages the same way as you view the marriage between two men?


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## Syriusly (Aug 31, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



So lets say that Tipsy had said this instead

"Hanging blacks was the only good thing the KKK did"

with the follow up:

"Not because they were black, but because they are obnoxious'

Would you be okay with that statement? 

Lets try another:

"Gassing Jews was the only good thing the Nazis did:

with the follow up:

"Not because they were Jews, but because they are obnoxious"

Would you be okay with that statement?


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## Syriusly (Aug 31, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> While I may not believe in any gods, that doesn't mean I don't RESPECT the teachings of Jesus.  He was a smart man, way ahead of his time.



IN many ways I agree- many of the teachings of Jesus are complex and HARD- the one that I agree with- yet struggle with- is his teaching to love your enemy.

I don't have to believe in any gods in order to appreciate the wisdom of many religious teachings- and I am a product of a civilization that has incorporated many of those teachings into our philosophies and law.


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## Syriusly (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> So anyway, the question was are people wrong for believing Homosexuality is a sin? Simple yes or no question


Hardly a simple yes or no question.

Let me ask you a similar question from the 1960's.

Are people wrong for believing that race mixing is a sin?


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## Syriusly (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Some do, but someone truly vested in the Christian belief system would only want to not have it condoned by the government would not like it because they believe (rightly or wrongly) that God will remove a hedge of protection on our Nation.
> These same people, if they had their way, would prohibit divorce as well, except for situations specified by Jesus himself



Not always- there are plenty who have condemned 'gay marriage' but who have divorced and remarried themselves.


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## Bonzi (Aug 31, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > So anyway, the question was are people wrong for believing Homosexuality is a sin? Simple yes or no question
> ...


If they're part of a religion that believes that sinful then no they're not wrong for believing that I don't know if you can ever say you're wrong in believing anything is when it comes to a religious concept


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## Bonzi (Aug 31, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Some do, but someone truly vested in the Christian belief system would only want to not have it condoned by the government would not like it because they believe (rightly or wrongly) that God will remove a hedge of protection on our Nation.
> ...


I agree there's always going to be people out there that rationalize their own behavior while condemning the behavior of others not limited to the topics we're talking about but absolutely it's true


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## Syriusly (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



Oh I have no problem with saying that people who believe- and act on certain religious concepts are wrong. 

When backward Muslims stone a woman to death for 'sin'- adultery- yeah that is wrong.

When backward Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin and push to pass laws to imprison homosexuals- yeah that is wrong.


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## Syriusly (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



And worthy of having their hypocrisy pointed out. 

Pretty much all followers of religions 'cherry pick' portions of the teachings to follow- or to ignore. That is one of the reason why there are so many sects.


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## Bonzi (Aug 31, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


That's the difference between beliefs and actions both can be right or wrong I don't know about believe so but even Jesus said render to Caesar what is


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## rightwinger (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> So anyway, the question was are people wrong for believing Homosexuality is a sin? Simple yes or no question



I think you can believe anything you want

The problem arises when you try to force your religious views about homosexuality onto the public. No, an elected county clerk should not be allowed to deny marriage licenses to gays because of her religious beliefs. No, a place of business should not be able to say......we don't serve gays here


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## Divine Wind (Aug 31, 2017)

Taz said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Atheists make up their own rules and, therefore, have no morals except what benefits them most. 

The only logical position for a person of science is agnostic.  Both Atheism and Theism are based upon _belief_...or, as atheists often claim, disbelief, but that's still a belief, not provable fact.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> mdk said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


Disagreed.  Two words:  Bill Clinton.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 31, 2017)

Taz said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


Afghanistan was fully justified.  Agreed on Iraq.  That was about greed, but I do not think it was GW's idea.  Both Cheney and Rumsfeld were both well known to be supporting a strong US presence in Iraq.  It cost us.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> mdk said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


To be fair, and apples to apples, Adultery is one of the Ten Commandments, homosexuality is not.  Probably for good reason as we've already discussed; there's a shitload more adulterers than homosexuals.

On the subject of the Ten Commandments, we see many of those broken all the time by self-avowed Christians.  Specifically bearing false witness, coveting, the Sabbath, honoring parents, stealing (by fraud which is still stealing).

 (I) I am the Lord thy God;thou shalt have no other gods before me. 
(II) Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain. 
(III) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 
(IV) Honor thy father and thy mother. 
(V) Thou shalt not kill.
(VI) Thou shalt not commit adultery. 
(VII) Thou shalt not steal. 
(VIII)Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. 
(IX) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house. 
(X) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife,nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbor's


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## Divine Wind (Aug 31, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


One nasty, horrible remark, especially taken out of context, does not justify saying "_It is quite clear that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about gays- despise gays._"


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## Divine Wind (Aug 31, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> *Stalin and Mao were subject to no rules- *they gave rules to others.
> 
> Here was your claim:
> 
> ...


Exactly.  Per my point, atheists have no rules.  Taz backed this up.

Yes, both were mass murderers.  Are you denying they were atheists?  Are you trying to say they did it in the name of Christianity?


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## Syriusly (Aug 31, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



Believers make up what 'rules' they believe that their religion tells them, and follow what benefits them the most.


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## Syriusly (Aug 31, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



a) I have never claimed that that single remark justifies saying that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about gays- despise gays- there have been lots of posts that justify my claim- that happened to be one that I found particularly 'informative' about the person who posted it.

b) You once again fail to take a position about whether that remark itself is indicative of hatred towards gays.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 31, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Translation: _You're correct, DW.  Atheists make up their own rules.  We'd never, ever take them from a book of wisdom thousands of years in the making.  We just make them up as suits us_.

Got it.  Thanks.  No worries, dude.  Do as you please.  Why should I care about your belief that we're all meat computers with no more value than a pile of shit?


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## Syriusly (Aug 31, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > *Stalin and Mao were subject to no rules- *they gave rules to others.
> ...



Wow- that is some fancy dancing away from the actual comments in my post- here let me dial you back to my actual post:

1)  This was your quote: _A favorite ploy by atheists.  They claim to have rules, but will never prove what rules they live by or why they should live by any rules_

I asked you to show how that applies to me- an atheist.

2) You have challenged me to prove that a large portion of USMB posters who post hateful things about gays actually hate gays- I have challenged you to prove that atheists- all atheists- claim to live with rules, but will never prove what rules that they live by, or why they should live by any rules.

Why won't you step up to prove your claim?

3) You named Stalin and Mao- and identified them as atheists. Are you saying that all atheists are mass murderers like Stalin and Mao? (that is of course what you do.....)

You claim that atheists don't live by rules, and claim to live by rules- prove it with me.

I am an atheist- prove it.


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## Syriusly (Aug 31, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
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> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



Translation: Divine Wind lies in his posts.


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## Syriusly (Aug 31, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...




My not believing in any gods is no more a belief than than my not collecting stamps is a hobby.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 31, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


a) it seems you did since you keep harping about it.

b) scroll up and have someone who reads and understands English explain to you what "_One nasty, horrible remark, especially taken out of context..._.." means.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 31, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Believe as you wish.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 31, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> ....I am an atheist- prove it.


Are you claiming you are not?  I thought you did.  Am I mistaken?  What are you religious beliefs, if you care to share.


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## Syriusly (Aug 31, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
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Nope- an you can't quote me saying it- but hey keep lying- it appears this is what you like to do

 I have never claimed that that single remark justifies saying that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about gays- despise gays- there have been lots of posts that justify my claim- that happened to be one that I found particularly 'informative' about the person who posted it


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## Syriusly (Aug 31, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > ....I am an atheist- prove it.
> ...



1) This was your quote: _A favorite ploy by atheists. They claim to have rules, but will never prove what rules they live by or why they should live by any rules_

I asked you to show how that applies to me- an atheist.

You claim that atheists don't live by rules, and claim to live by rules- prove it with me.

I am an atheist- prove it.

Or just keep lying.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 31, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


Awesome.  So why do you keep repeating the same post out of context to prove your point that Christians are fucking assholes?


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## Divine Wind (Aug 31, 2017)

As mentioned previously,  I used to be an atheist but had a life changing experience at 16 which caused me to think there is more out there than what was only in front of my nose.

My first experience with college was a community college; living at home, paying my own bills, yada, yada. One particular professor impressed me greatly; Ron Smith. He mostly taught philosophy, but also co-taught classes related to psychology...and religion.  He was an avowed atheist, drank Wild Turkey and smoked unfiltered Camels. I loved the guy and took every class he taught.  He didn't seem to be very happy, but he was certainly enthusiastic about his work and made a big impression upon me.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 31, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


How am I supposed to prove what rules you choose to live by?  You're an atheist.  You have not rules except those you make up.


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## Bonzi (Aug 31, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > mdk said:
> ...


The Christian take on this is that the 10 commandments are laws to show us how we just can't meet God's standards and how we need Jesus to be acceptable in His sight


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## Divine Wind (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


_Some_ Christians, not all.  Obviously the whole point of this thread is to point out that there are Christians who cherry-pick from the OT to condemn gays.

Bonzi, do you believe sexual preference is a choice or that people are born that way?


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## LittleNipper (Aug 31, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


 The issue seems to be that gays want to throw Christians in jail because Christians do not accept gay marriage as viable or worthy of respectability. The same can be said of drunks. Such behavior is not worthy of respectable regard.


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## Bonzi (Aug 31, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
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I understand from reading that there is evidence pointing to it being a born preference.  However, it don't think that is the point.


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## Divine Wind (Aug 31, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
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> > Bonzi said:
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Born preference?   Do heterosexuals choose to be heterosexual?  No.  We're all wired that way. 

Our only choice, like mentioned above, is what we do about it.  If we choose to be married, we have a choice as to be faithful to marriage vows or not, but that doesn't change our innate desires.

If a person is wired to be gay, then an all merciful God would take that into consideration.


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## Taz (Sep 1, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Taz said:
> 
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> > Divine.Wind said:
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Afghanistan wasn't justified, the Afghans had nothing to do with 9/11.  That's like invading Italy to get at the mafia.


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## Taz (Sep 1, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > *Stalin and Mao were subject to no rules- *they gave rules to others.
> ...


Just because 2 guys were like that doesn't mean that all atheists are like that.


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## Bonzi (Sep 1, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



I can only speak of my own personal experience.   I've had sexual feelings towards both.  I did choose to go one direction, and, my drive was more in one direction, and now is completely in one direction, so, not sure what that means... 

Maybe we can have sexual feelings towards both, but we are wired to be with the opposite sex in a relationship way....


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## Taz (Sep 1, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


You're just lazy and probably still want to munch a rug.


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## LittleNipper (Sep 1, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


Do all heterosexuals get married, have sex, and have children? You are correct --- such is a matter of CHOICE.


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## Syriusly (Sep 1, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



Nope- an you can't quote me saying it- but hey keep lying- it appears this is what you like to do

I have never claimed that that single remark justifies saying that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about gays- despise gays- there have been lots of posts that justify my claim- that happened to be one that I found particularly 'informative' about the person who posted it

Nor have I claimed that Christians are fucking assholes- though certainly some Christians are fucking assholes, as are some atheists and some Muslims and some Buddhists.


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## Syriusly (Sep 1, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



You claim that because I am an atheist- and that we atheists 'claim to have rules, but will never prove what rules they live by or why they should live by any rules'

You made the claim- why are you so unwilling to either 
a) Admit your claim was pulled out of your ass or
b) Back up your claim by showing how I have 'claimed to have rules, but will never prove what rules' I live by, or why I should live by any rules.

Or you can just keep lying.


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## Syriusly (Sep 1, 2017)

LittleNipper said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



You seem to be very confused Nipper.

Christians for centuries passed laws to throw gays in jail- for having private consensual sex- or for simply going to a gay bar. 

Gays have not passed any laws putting Christians in jail for not accepting anything. 

Throwing people in jail for the wrong kind of thinking, historically in the United States, has been a Christian preoccupation.

This is not to say that all Christians feel this way- just that the persons passing those laws were Christian.


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## Syriusly (Sep 1, 2017)

Taz said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...



The government of Afghanistan was shielding Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. They were given the opportunity to give them up- and decided against it. I am okay with our invasion of Afghanistan.

Iraq was a stupid distraction from our war in Afghanistan- and is in large part the reason why Afghanistan is such a mess today.


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## Taz (Sep 1, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


That's like saying that the Italian government was shielding the mafia, ok, they were, but still, we never invaded them.


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## Syriusly (Sep 1, 2017)

Taz said:


> Syriusly said:
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> > Taz said:
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If the Mafia had blown up a building and killed 3,000 people you can be damned sure we would have.

Hell we invaded Mexico to pursue Pancho Villa after he killed a few dozen Americans in Texas.


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## Taz (Sep 1, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Taz said:
> 
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> > Syriusly said:
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The mafia is killing our youths with heroin. And waaayyyy more than 3,000.


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## Bonzi (Sep 1, 2017)

Taz said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


How is that being lazy?


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## Dalia (Sep 1, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Votto said:
> 
> 
> > Jesus never advocated about locking anyone up, neither did he condemn anyone except the religious leaders of his day.  Neither did he advocate for government to save us all..
> ...


Yes, Yes he did...read the bible.

The Bible consistently tells us that homosexual activity is a sin (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Romans 1:26-27 teaches specifically that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When people continue in sin and unbelief, God “gives them over” to even more wicked and depraved sin in order to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God. 1 Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that homosexual “offenders” will not inherit the kingdom of God.


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## Syriusly (Sep 1, 2017)

Dalia said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Votto said:
> ...




Then why can't you provide a quote from Jesus condemning homosexuality?

I am hoping you don't believe that Jesus was speaking in Leviticus.

Here is an example of Jesus condemning 'activity'
Matthew 19
Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 19 - New International Version
Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

So we know that Jesus specifically said that activity like Donald Trump's- of divorcing his wife(he was the one committing sexual immorality- not her) and remarrying- both times- is committing adultery- as long as he is married.

Show me a quote of Jesus condemning homosexuality- so far no Christian has.


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## Syriusly (Sep 1, 2017)

Taz said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...



"the mafia is killing our youths with heroin"?

Really? What are you- stuck in the 1970's? Heroin coming into the United States comes primarily from Afghanistan.

Yeah- the same country you said we were wrong to invade. 

Look- I get it that you were okay with the Taliban shielding the Al Qaeda assholes who attacked America- but to me, the Taliban made a choice- and suffered because of it.


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## Dalia (Sep 1, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Dalia said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


It is a sin but it could be forgiven by God.

However, the Bible does not describe homosexuality as a “greater” sin than any other. All sin is offensive to God. Homosexuality is just one of the many things listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that will keep a person from the kingdom of God. According to the Bible, God’s forgiveness is just as available to a homosexual as it is to an adulterer, idol worshipper, murderer, thief, etc. God also promises the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation (1 Corinthians 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Philippians 4:13).


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## Syriusly (Sep 1, 2017)

Dalia said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Dalia said:
> ...



Great- now show me the quote where Jesus condemned homosexuality.


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## Dalia (Sep 1, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Dalia said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...



Read my posts and you have the explanation that for god it is a sin.


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## Syriusly (Sep 1, 2017)

Dalia said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Dalia said:
> ...



Bearing false witness is a sin.

I said:
Yep- Jesus never once condemned homosexuality.
You said: Yes, Yes he did...read the bible.

You have yet to show one example of Jesus condemning homosexuality- as you claimed he did in the Bible.

So now you are bearing false witness. But don't worry- God will forgive your sin.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Sep 1, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > Marion Morrison said:
> ...


* Intelligent Self-Design *

Those aren't the only alternatives.  Consider the single source of both sides of what we are always told to think.  It's always easier to obey than to be, at least until we pay the consequences by turning into parrots.  

Early life-forms were able to choose what they wanted to be.  They freely added to themselves what they chose to from their surroundings; they weren't passive receptacles.  Even today, we can choose our diet to change our shape.


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## Taz (Sep 1, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


You want to, but you just can't get up off the sofa to go find some.


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## Taz (Sep 1, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


Taliban weren't supporting anyone, they just hate us.

Btw, the Taliban are winning, we should just surrender and go home like the Russians did.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Sep 1, 2017)

* Poison the Drug Supply.  End of the Opioid "Crisis" *

Drug degeneracy is a choice; the users must be forced to pay the consequences. The defective people in power, who love weaklings, force us to think of the users as "victims."


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## Dalia (Sep 1, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Dalia said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


You wan't me to say it in French maybe ?


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## Syriusly (Sep 1, 2017)

Dalia said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Dalia said:
> ...



Saying your lie in French won't make it less of a lie.


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## Syriusly (Sep 1, 2017)

Taz said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
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The Taliban affirm their alliance with al-Qaida: Afghan peace talks in doubt

Al-Qaida in contrast always reaffirmed its loyalty to the Taliban, which had harbored it before and after 9/11. Without the Taliban safe haven before 9/11, the attacks would never have occurred; al-Qaida needed its Afghan sanctuary. Bin Laden’s son Hamza this week reaffirmed his loyalty to the Taliban in his first ever audio tape for al-Qaida.

The Taliban are winning- mostly because of our misguided war in Iraq.


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## Bonzi (Sep 1, 2017)

Taz said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


No, not interested. It was not any good actually


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## Borillar (Sep 1, 2017)

LittleNipper said:


> Mudda said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


God created everything and everything was perfect. Therefore God created Satan and he was perfect too. When did Satan become imperfect? How does imperfection come from perfection? If God is omniscient, and knows what is to come, why did he create Satan? Why did he create people and then be surprised that they were imperfect and wipe them out except for Noah and his family? Where did the concept of sin come from? If God created everything, did he also create sin? Was sin perfect too? If everything was perfect, why were some animals forbidden to eat? If animals used to live together peacefully, what did carnivores eat?


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## Dalia (Sep 1, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Dalia said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


It is not a lie...Homosexuality is a sin for god it is in the bible .Tu comprends ça ?


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## Syriusly (Sep 1, 2017)

Dalia said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Dalia said:
> ...



Bearing false witness is a sin.

I said:
Yep- Jesus never once condemned homosexuality.
You said: Yes, Yes he did...read the bible.

You have yet to show one example of Jesus condemning homosexuality- as you claimed he did in the Bible.

So now you are bearing false witness. But don't worry- God will forgive your sin.


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## Gracie (Sep 1, 2017)

Dalia said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Dalia said:
> ...


And He is the judge on who sins and who will be forgiven. Not you or any other human.


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## Dalia (Sep 1, 2017)

Did God creat Adam and Eve ? or did he create Adam and Adam ? or Eve and Eve ?


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## rightwinger (Sep 1, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


Yet when AlQaeda and Bin Laden escaped into Pakistan, we did nothing

Decided to invade Iraq instead


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## Divine Wind (Sep 1, 2017)

Dalia said:


> Did God creat Adam and Eve ? or did he create Adam and Adam ? or Eve and Eve ?


Everything and everybody.


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## Divine Wind (Sep 1, 2017)

Taz said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Your support for the Taliban and their atrocities are noted.  

Still, just because the Taliban were abusive assholes committing atrocities against humanity is not a reason to go to war.  When they gave safe haven to terrorists who had repeatedly attacked the United States but murdered almost 3000 in one day, then, yeah, that's justification for taking them down.


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## Marion Morrison (Sep 1, 2017)

i'm kinda for no buttsex


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## Divine Wind (Sep 1, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
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We worked with Pakistan on that issue, but the situation in Pakistan is delicate. 

OTOH, the night we "invaded" Pakistan to take down bin Laden, the Paki national defense radar just happened to go down.  Coincidence?


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## Divine Wind (Sep 1, 2017)

`


Marion Morrison said:


> i'm kinda for no buttsex


Agreed...for me...each to their own.  Barry Goldwater was correct about how the government shouldn't be snooping in people's bedrooms.


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## Divine Wind (Sep 1, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


Women are much more emotional than men, so it's not unusual they'd have feelings for all.  Sexual preference is a bit more complicated,  but I can see why more women would be bisexual than men.


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## Divine Wind (Sep 1, 2017)

LittleNipper said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


Yes, those are choices...or in the case of kids, negligence, but their heterosexuality isn't a choice.


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## Gracie (Sep 1, 2017)

Is adultry a sin? And is it ok to talk against it?

This question is specifically for you Bonzi.

I've been a tad slow in the ol noggin, but it hit me just now. You claim you are a christian, are against gay lifestyle because it is against God's law, yet...you are having an affair.

How is this not hypocritical?


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## Taz (Sep 2, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


Did it taste like fish?


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## Taz (Sep 2, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


Then why haven't we invaded all the other countries that have terrorists? Kenya, Sudan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Syria, ...?


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## Taz (Sep 2, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


Don't be a fool, we never killed Osama Bin Laden.


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## Divine Wind (Sep 2, 2017)

Taz said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Has Kenya murdered thousands of Americans?

At what point do you think the US should become involved in foreign relations?  At what point should we go to war with another country?

The US was justified to attack Afghanistan, but not Iraq.  We should have finished the job in Afghanistan in 2003 instead of diverting resources and focus to Iraq leaving Afghanistan half-finished. Now we're still in Afghanistan trying to get back to where we were in 2003.


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## Divine Wind (Sep 2, 2017)

Taz said:


> Don't be a fool, we never killed Osama Bin Laden.


Ahhh, an important clue.  No doubt you believe "9/11 was an inside job", that TWA 800 was shot down by the US Navy and that the CIA murdered JFK. 

Have a nice life.


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## ChrisL (Sep 2, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



What wasn't any good?  The pussy you ate?


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## Divine Wind (Sep 2, 2017)

Gracie said:


> Is adultry a sin? And is it ok to talk against it?
> 
> This question is specifically for you Bonzi.
> 
> ...


I missed the part about "an affair", but adultery is a mortal sin since it violates one of the Ten Commandments according to those who believe in the Bible. 

Now, some people cherry-pick from the Bible, which allows them to bitch about gays while munching down on a pulled-pork BBQ sandwich and working on a Saturday or Sunday.


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## ChrisL (Sep 2, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



I do think 9/11 was an excuse to attack Iraq.  I think the powers that be wanted that maniac out of power, and they would have used anything to get in there and take him out.  The "global economy" has to run smoothly after all, and Saddam was a thorn in the side of the "global community."  How can we have world peace and harmony with such lunatics running the asylum?


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## Divine Wind (Sep 2, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
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If you think we need to invade every country with a nutjob, there are much more dangerous targets.   Saddam was mostly dangerous to his own people.


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## ChrisL (Sep 2, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> > Is adultry a sin? And is it ok to talk against it?
> ...



They SURE do!  It is unbelievable how they can look upon another as a "sinner" and judge his or her actions, as if they are perfect people in the eyes of their God.  Lol!


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## ChrisL (Sep 2, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



Apparently the powers that be, who probably know a whole lot more than any of US nobodies, did not agree with your assessment.


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## ChrisL (Sep 2, 2017)

Is it not a GOOD thing that Saddam was taken out?  Sure ISIS filling the empty void is a shameful unintended consequence.  However, Saddam was NOT just a menace to his own people.  That is why so many wanted to take him out.


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## ChrisL (Sep 2, 2017)

Just think of it this way.  OIL makes the world go around.  Without oil, the world stops going around.  Now, you may be disgusted that oil is such an important commodity (more important than gold or diamonds), but it is what it is.  We cannot have these nut jobs being in control of such a valuable resource.  Whenever they throw a temper tantrum and make the prices of oil rise or cut off supply of oil or whatever they might do, it affects the rest of the world BIGLY.


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## Divine Wind (Sep 2, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Is it not a GOOD thing that Saddam was taken out?  Sure ISIS filling the empty void is a shameful unintended consequence.  However, Saddam was NOT just a menace to his own people.  That is why so many wanted to take him out.


A bomb would have taken Saddam out.  Was invading Iraq worth the lives of 4,424 Americans and 31,952 American wounded?


----------



## Divine Wind (Sep 2, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Just think of it this way.  OIL makes the world go around.  Without oil, the world stops going around.  Now, you may be disgusted that oil is such an important commodity (more important than gold or diamonds), but it is what it is.  We cannot have these nut jobs being in control of such a valuable resource.  Whenever they throw a temper tantrum and make the prices of oil rise or cut off supply of oil or whatever they might do, it affects the rest of the world BIGLY.


So, 1) You agree the war was over oil, not anything else and 2) Why aren't we invading Iran?


----------



## ChrisL (Sep 2, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Is it not a GOOD thing that Saddam was taken out?  Sure ISIS filling the empty void is a shameful unintended consequence.  However, Saddam was NOT just a menace to his own people.  That is why so many wanted to take him out.
> ...



They had to find him first.  Lol.  Did you expect them to just bomb Iraq indiscriminately.  Oh, well, we think he might be over there, so drop some bombs.  Besides, I think they wanted to get him alive and pump him for information.


----------



## ChrisL (Sep 2, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Just think of it this way.  OIL makes the world go around.  Without oil, the world stops going around.  Now, you may be disgusted that oil is such an important commodity (more important than gold or diamonds), but it is what it is.  We cannot have these nut jobs being in control of such a valuable resource.  Whenever they throw a temper tantrum and make the prices of oil rise or cut off supply of oil or whatever they might do, it affects the rest of the world BIGLY.
> ...



Who says it can't be about anything else?  Rarely are conflicts due to only ONE issue.  Why such a "black and white" perspective?


----------



## ChrisL (Sep 2, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Just think of it this way.  OIL makes the world go around.  Without oil, the world stops going around.  Now, you may be disgusted that oil is such an important commodity (more important than gold or diamonds), but it is what it is.  We cannot have these nut jobs being in control of such a valuable resource.  Whenever they throw a temper tantrum and make the prices of oil rise or cut off supply of oil or whatever they might do, it affects the rest of the world BIGLY.
> ...



I don't know.  I am NOT the powers the be.


----------



## ChrisL (Sep 2, 2017)

I don't know of secret intelligence gathered.  I don't know about "top secret" data the government or global powers may have on this one or that one.  Neither do.  Neither do any of us peons.


----------



## ChrisL (Sep 2, 2017)

WE are only important in our own little worlds.  In the bigger picture, we are nothing more than cogs in the machine, easily replaced.


----------



## Taz (Sep 2, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


Ok, so even if I give you that the invasion of Afghanistan was justified to get Al-Qaeda and Osama, What's the justification for staying there now? Apparently, the US army thinks that Osama is dead and I haven't heard anything about Al-Qaeda being there any more either. So why stay?


----------



## rightwinger (Sep 2, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


We had a double standard of what we tolerated from Afghanistan and what we tolerated from Pakistan


----------



## Taz (Sep 2, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > Don't be a fool, we never killed Osama Bin Laden.
> ...


When we killed Saddam's sons... anyone on the infamous deck of cards... Al-Zakarwy... we ALWAYS showed their dead bodies. It's possible that we CAPTURED Osama. But kill him? No proof. NONE!


----------



## Taz (Sep 2, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Then why haven't we attacked China? North Korea? Russia? Nearly every African nation? The whole Middle East? They all have lunatics running their show?


----------



## Taz (Sep 2, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Is it not a GOOD thing that Saddam was taken out?  Sure ISIS filling the empty void is a shameful unintended consequence.  However, Saddam was NOT just a menace to his own people.  That is why so many wanted to take him out.


Things are worse now in Iraq. Just ask the Iraqi people. They say things were better under Saddam. Google it.


----------



## ChrisL (Sep 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



There is a reason for that, I'm sure.  Lol.  It's not because "we like that one better."    Maybe they are easier to work with and more willing to give?


----------



## ChrisL (Sep 2, 2017)

Taz said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



Because apparently there is no good REASON to, according to the powers that be!  How should I know?  I'm just a lowly nobody.


----------



## ChrisL (Sep 2, 2017)

Just think about what it would be like to have to be in charge of the world and make sure things run smoothly?  You would have to do some horrible and distasteful things.  There is just no way around it.


----------



## ChrisL (Sep 2, 2017)

Liberals, you cannot have it BOTH ways.  You cannot let lunatics run the asylum and have "peace on earth."  Two opposing concepts are going to fight with one another.


----------



## rightwinger (Sep 2, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Liberals, you cannot have it BOTH ways.  You cannot let lunatics run the asylum and have "peace on earth."  Two opposing concepts are going to fight with one another.


Lunatics run the asylum?

You are the ones who elected Trump


----------



## ChrisL (Sep 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Liberals, you cannot have it BOTH ways.  You cannot let lunatics run the asylum and have "peace on earth."  Two opposing concepts are going to fight with one another.
> ...



Well who wouldn't over a corrupt old alcoholic?


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Sep 2, 2017)

Dalia said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Dalia said:
> ...


_"Qu'ils mangent de la brioche_."

"_Egorger vos fils!"_


----------



## Bonzi (Sep 2, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> i'm kinda for no buttsex



Well that would pretty much rule out homosexuality in men.  Unless they just do strictly oral


----------



## Bonzi (Sep 2, 2017)

Gracie said:


> Is adultry a sin? And is it ok to talk against it?
> 
> This question is specifically for you Bonzi.
> 
> ...



Okay, so, yes adultery is a sin.
Yes, it is ok to think adultery is a sin
I have not recently claimed I am a Christian, HOWEVER, I do believe that Jesus is God, but I would have to admit that I am a back slidden Christian, so, what I say means crap.  However, I do believe those sincere Christians have rights etc etc.  It's a subject I'm knowledgeable about (somewhat), and for whatever reason feel strongly about (the rights of Christians).  

Personally, I don't care about the gay lifestyle, unless it has an over all negative impact on society.  I'm not saying it does or it doesn't, but, that would be my only reason to not whole heartedly be okay with it.  

Lastly, I am not having an affair.


----------



## Bonzi (Sep 2, 2017)

Taz said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...



Nope


----------



## Bonzi (Sep 2, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...



The whole experience.  The fantasy was much better than the reality, it was weird, and actually kinda awkward and boring.  Much much more fun and exciting with men


----------



## Divine Wind (Sep 2, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


So, yes, killing Saddam was worth over 4400 American lives and about 32,000 American wounded, maimed and shattered?


----------



## danielpalos (Sep 2, 2017)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


AnCap theory?  "Capitalism" is bound to happen, given enough time and the right circumstances.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Sep 2, 2017)

Taz said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


NYETO ordered us to make it an outpost against Russia.


----------



## Divine Wind (Sep 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Disagreed.  We could work with the pro-Western forces in Pakistan, an element that largely didn't exist in Afghanistan because the Taliban had eliminated them.


----------



## Divine Wind (Sep 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Liberals, you cannot have it BOTH ways.  You cannot let lunatics run the asylum and have "peace on earth."  Two opposing concepts are going to fight with one another.
> ...


Maybe the Democrats shouldn't have been so corrupt that they put up Hillary as a candidate.  I would have voted for James Webb and a few other Democrats.   Given the only choices were Trump and Hillary, I voted Johnson rather than two deplorables.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Sep 2, 2017)

Taz said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


*Terminal America's Epitaph Will Be PROUD TO DIE TAKING A RICHKID'S PLACE*

Notice that Iraqi HeirHeads at least stayed and fought, unlike the spoiled sheltered sissyboys in the United States, South Vietnam, Lebanon, and Kuwait.


----------



## Taz (Sep 2, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


You must have been in the wrong hole.


----------



## danielpalos (Sep 2, 2017)

Gracie said:


> Is adultry a sin? And is it ok to talk against it?
> 
> This question is specifically for you Bonzi.
> 
> ...


Interesting point.  I request women have permission from their Man.


----------



## ding (Sep 2, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> > i'm kinda for no buttsex
> ...


Not so fast.  He only said he was kinda for no buttsex.  He didn't rule it out.


----------



## rightwinger (Sep 2, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


The same pro-Western forces that allowed bin Laden to live within their midst?


----------



## ding (Sep 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Don't hold that against Bill Clinton.


----------



## Divine Wind (Sep 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


That area, and several others, isn't pro-Western.  If you didn't know this, that explains a lot.

However,you're free to side with the terrorists and claim that what happened on 9/11 was both justice and that the US deserved it.


----------



## Taz (Sep 2, 2017)

ding said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Marion Morrison said:
> ...


So, are you a pitcher or a catcher?


----------



## rightwinger (Sep 2, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



No...but I don't think invasions costing 7000 American lives is an appropriate solution

I supported Afghanistan at the time and always opposed Iraq
Now, 16 years later, I doubt if either one was worth it


----------



## Syriusly (Sep 2, 2017)

Dalia said:


> Did God creat Adam and Eve ? or did he create Adam and Adam ? or Eve and Eve ?



Who did the children of Adam and Eve marry and have children with?

(by the way the answer to your question is 'no')


----------



## Syriusly (Sep 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...





rightwinger said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...



Well Pakistan didn't officially shield Al Qaeda like Afghanistan. 

The invasion of Iraq was a stupid, and expensive distraction from the mission.


----------



## Syriusly (Sep 2, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> i'm kinda for no buttsex



Well I am all for you not having buttsex then.


----------



## Syriusly (Sep 2, 2017)

Taz said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...



Divine answered your question before you asked. 

Re-read what he wrote.


----------



## Syriusly (Sep 2, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...



Well you are of course entitled to your opinion. 

But 9/11 was not related to Iraq in anyway. Hell Iraq actually persecuted Al Aqaeda in Iraq. 

There are plenty of lunatics out there- Syria's leader of the time was just as murderous- but we didn't bother to take him out. I can't figure out what justification there was for the loss of American and Iraqi lives and the cost to American tax payers that left us with mess in Iraq.

We can't and shouldn't be the regime change agent for the world.


----------



## Syriusly (Sep 2, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



So you will just blindly accept any invasion the United States government decides to make?


----------



## Syriusly (Sep 2, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Is it not a GOOD thing that Saddam was taken out?  Sure ISIS filling the empty void is a shameful unintended consequence.  However, Saddam was NOT just a menace to his own people.  That is why so many wanted to take him out.



I cry no tears for Saddam Hussein- glad the asshole got what was coming to him. 
But we had no good justification to remove him- an how we handled it turned into a nightmare. 


Iran was able to expand its power in the region
Multiple terrorists groups were able to work in Iraq- not just ISIS
100,000 Iraqi's died- and much of their infrastructure was destroyed.

More importantly- what has the U.S. gained by removing Saddam? Glad he is dead- just as I am glad Qaddafy is dead- but both Iraq and Libya demonstrate the problems with just removing a despot.


----------



## Syriusly (Sep 2, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> I don't know of secret intelligence gathered.  I don't know about "top secret" data the government or global powers may have on this one or that one.  Neither do.  Neither do any of us peons.



We are a Republic- if the government can't explain why the United States should go to war to we the citizens- then the government should not be allowed to go to war.


----------



## Syriusly (Sep 2, 2017)

Taz said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...



Actually Al Qaeda is still there. 

The only justification for staying in Afghanistan is to prevent groups like Isis and Al Qaeda for using it as a base.

But we are going to have to pull out eventually.


----------



## Syriusly (Sep 2, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Liberals, you cannot have it BOTH ways.  You cannot let lunatics run the asylum and have "peace on earth."  Two opposing concepts are going to fight with one another.



So this is a 'liberal' thing?

LOL

Tell me- do you think then that it is a 'Conservative' thing for the United States to go around and remove any government we think is a 'lunatic'?

Should we invade Syria? North Korea? Hell there are some really foul governments in Africa and in the former Soviet 'stans.

Is that what Conservatives think we should do?


----------



## Syriusly (Sep 2, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



You were the one who voted for the corrupt rapist.


----------



## Syriusly (Sep 2, 2017)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



Hussein and his boys had to be dragged out of their hidey holes- being the cowards that they were.

I disagree with our decision to invade Iraq- but 
a) Hussien and his cowardly asshole murderous sons were scum who deserved their cowardly deaths.
b) The U.S. military did a fantastic job of defeating Saddam's army.


----------



## deanrd (Sep 2, 2017)

*Is It Wrong to Think Homosexuality is a Sin?*

People that made Donald Trump, liar, pu$$y grabber and serial adulterer a role model for their children have no right to judge gays.  No right at all.


----------



## Taz (Sep 2, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


He said the Taliban were giving safe haven to terrorists as a reason to invade. So what about all the other countries that harbour terrorists, like Saudi Arabia? Why don't we take THEM down?


----------



## Taz (Sep 2, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


We shot our load into Afghanistan a long, long time ago. Time to pull out. 

Btw, we lost. A man should know when he's beaten.


----------



## Taz (Sep 2, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


Why? Where were YOU protesting about any invasion?


----------



## Bonzi (Sep 2, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


Why? Are you applying for a position?


----------



## Syriusly (Sep 2, 2017)

Taz said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...



If Saudi Arabia is harboring any of the terrorists that attacked us on 9/11- sure I am fine invading them if they wont' turn them over.


----------



## Syriusly (Sep 2, 2017)

Taz said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



I agreed with the invasion of Afghanistan.

I disagreed with the invasion of Iraq.

Not sure why you can't comprehend my posts.


----------



## rightwinger (Sep 2, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


Not officially.....wink, wink

But somehow...Osama bin Laden, Khalid Skeik Muhammad and other key leaders ended up living quite comfortably in Pakistan

And we invaded Iraq


----------



## rightwinger (Sep 2, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...



Somehow 17 of 19 9-11 terrorists were Saudis as was Bin Laden

But our government never suspected Saudi involvement


----------



## Bonzi (Sep 2, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> > Is adultry a sin? And is it ok to talk against it?
> ...



If men could get reciprocal permission, I'm sure many would be on board for that


----------



## Syriusly (Sep 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...



Don't get me started on the Saudi government.......


----------



## ding (Sep 2, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


Be nice.  I may be your daddy.


----------



## Gracie (Sep 2, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Gracie said:
> ...


You didn't answer my question.
Are you still married to the first husband? And did you not have an affair before you got divorced, IF you are divorced?


----------



## Taz (Sep 2, 2017)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


My dad wasn't a queer. Sorry.


----------



## Taz (Sep 2, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


Yes, I'll pitch one to you.


----------



## Taz (Sep 2, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


Most of the 9/11 guys came from there. We shoulda taken em down. Bigtime.


----------



## Divine Wind (Sep 2, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


Agreed such things aren't only only one issue.  Since Saddam (or his "palaces") could have easily been destroyed, what other issues do you think drew the US to kill over 4400 Americans and spend over $1 Trillion in taxpayer dollars?


----------



## Divine Wind (Sep 2, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


You've advocated support for invading Iraq.  Are you now admitting you don't know why?  That you just blindly support the PTB?


----------



## Divine Wind (Sep 2, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


The alledged concern about Saddam wasn't Saddam, but "Weapons of Mass Destruction".  While it would have taken some effort to hunt him down and kill him, any facilities AKA "palaces" which didn't comply with inspections should have been bombed into oblivion.  We didn't do that.  Why?


----------



## Divine Wind (Sep 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Afghanistan was worth it after 9/11 and we should have finished the job.  Not just the takedown, but the rebuild, a mistake which gave rise to the Taliban in the first place.  Now we are fighting just to regain on a stronger enemy.

In some ways I see it as the problem with antibiotics.  If you only take them until you feel better, there's a risk that the disease will come back stronger and antibiotic resistant.  Better to have just done it right in the first place.


----------



## Divine Wind (Sep 2, 2017)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


I think you're talking with someone at least under 25 and probably under 21.


----------



## Divine Wind (Sep 2, 2017)

Gracie said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


Data mining, dear.  Better to rephrase that, under strict Evangelistic interpretation of the Bible, all those who divorce and remarry are committing adultery.


----------



## Divine Wind (Sep 2, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Do your really believe our intelligence and military agencies never made that connection?  Wow!  You should write them a letter or run for office!


----------



## Divine Wind (Sep 2, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Dalia said:
> 
> 
> > Did God creat Adam and Eve ? or did he create Adam and Adam ? or Eve and Eve ?
> ...


A conundrum which points out that Genesis is more apocryphal than true. 

Another conundrum is that, dating back using events, the world is only 6000 years old according to the Bible.  

Part of the problem is that Moses is said to have written the first five books of the Bible, a timeline of about 4000BC to 1500BC.   The 2500 years in between weren't necessarily written and, probably, were passed around the campfires by designated storytellers as customary among many human tribal societies.  Like the game of "Telephone", 2500 years is a long time to misconstrue events.


----------



## Divine Wind (Sep 2, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know of secret intelligence gathered.  I don't know about "top secret" data the government or global powers may have on this one or that one.  Neither do.  Neither do any of us peons.
> ...


Which is what happens.  Part of the problem with Iraq was that too many people accepted the fear-mongering of WMDs.  Since it was just a few years after 9/11, it wasn't a large jump.  Didn't Hillary and John Kerry jump on the band wagon?  Wasn't that party of Kerry's campaign problems - "I was for the war before I was against it"?


----------



## Divine Wind (Sep 2, 2017)

deanrd said:


> *Is It Wrong to Think Homosexuality is a Sin?*
> 
> People that made Donald Trump, liar, pu$$y grabber and serial adulterer a role model for their children have no right to judge gays.  No right at all.


What gives you the right to judge them?


----------



## Marion Morrison (Sep 2, 2017)

Why the fuck was I paged here? Like 17x? GFY whoever is responsible for that.
If you can't handle your sexuality, that's your problem, not mine.


----------



## Bonzi (Sep 2, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


True, but their are exceptions like death of a spouse


----------



## Bonzi (Sep 2, 2017)

Gracie said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


I don't have to, but I will even though you are being a pushy little biatch....

No, no


----------



## Bonzi (Sep 2, 2017)

Taz said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Dream on Holmes


----------



## Gracie (Sep 2, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


I'm just trying to get your many stories straight. When you first got here, you said you were married, but you started threads about how wet you are and how you enjoyed licking butt holes because it was a turn on. You then went on to try to lure some of the male posters here to get all involved in pms with you. You also made fun of April and her situation with her widowhood. I figured you were looking for a new guy any way you could and mostly wrote you off as skankish. Now I hear you are having an affair with a guy here and MIGHT be married to him. So I asked. Cuz if you are married to him, that means you left your husband that you said you were married to ORIGINALLY while on the hunt for a replacement.

I could care less what you do with yourself, but I was curious as to what the fuck happened since I missed it all. I don't call that pushy. I call it nosey.

***I edited this post slightly. Before editing, it was definitely biatchy. Sorry***


----------



## Gracie (Sep 2, 2017)

AND...I find it just a tad hypocritical that you would claim to be a Christian, even though a backsliding one, while committing adultry. Don't you?


----------



## Divine Wind (Sep 3, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Gracie said:
> ...


Like divorce, remarry, former spouse later dies?


----------



## Divine Wind (Sep 3, 2017)

Gracie said:


> AND...I find it just a tad hypocritical that you would claim to be a Christian, even though a backsliding one, while committing adultry. Don't you?


Now you seem to be harping, Gracie.  Is your point to either accept all of the Bible 100%, including Adam and Eve, or none of it?  Are you an atheist?  Theist but with a different concept?


----------



## Divine Wind (Sep 3, 2017)

Marion Morrison said:


> Why the fuck was I paged here? Like 17x? GFY whoever is responsible for that.
> If you can't handle your sexuality, that's your problem, not mine.


Paged would be when someone deliberately tags you with the "@" sign in front of your user name: Marion Morrison.   If someone simply quotes someone which includes your quotes, you'll be alerted as being quoted, but not really.  It's a glitch or option depending upon whether or not it's a PITA.


----------



## Bonzi (Sep 3, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



well if you want to go "by the book" in the New Testament, here's the only way remarrying is not sinful:

Matthew 19:9
*9* I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, *except for sexual immorality*, and marries another woman commits adultery.” 

You can, obviously, also remarry if your spouse dies.  But for divorce, sexual immorality is the only acceptable reason according to Jesus.


----------



## danielpalos (Sep 3, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Gracie said:
> ...


Better communication?

In modern times, I watch a lot of porn (for continuing education in "cultural anthropology"); and,. try to port my findings to real life, whenever I have the presence of mind to do so.


----------



## danielpalos (Sep 3, 2017)

Gracie said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


If, the Internet had been as mature twenty years ago as it is now; I would not be the same person I am now.


----------



## danielpalos (Sep 3, 2017)

Gracie said:


> AND...I find it just a tad hypocritical that you would claim to be a Christian, even though a backsliding one, while committing adultry. Don't you?


I don't consider it morally wrong, if there is informed consent.


----------



## danielpalos (Sep 3, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


There was no welfare in those Iron Age times.


----------



## Divine Wind (Sep 3, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


1) It's allowing husbands to divorce wives, not vice versa.

2) While I agree death is a given, I'm not sure the Bible addresses it.

3) The Bible, IMO, is man's interpretations of leading a good, just life, but it's also several other things such as a medical/health guide (pork, shellfish), government (slaves, marriage, murder) along with spirituality.  Some are outdated, but the spiritual part is timeless.  Hence, why we should look at religious texts in total, not just cherry-pick.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Sep 3, 2017)

Borillar said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> > Mudda said:
> ...


The answer, of course, is there is no ‘god’ as perceived by theists.


----------



## danielpalos (Sep 3, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


I would argue that asking for permission is not adultery.  

Adulteration happens Only with deceit.


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

ChrisL said:


> How should I know? I'm just a lowly nobody.



Exactly.


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


How do you know?


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Dalia said:
> ...


Ummmm.... no, Genesis is an allegorical account of actual events.


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> > AND...I find it just a tad hypocritical that you would claim to be a Christian, even though a backsliding one, while committing adultry. Don't you?
> ...


We've had this conversation before.  Divinely inspired, written by men, latitude to put it into their words with the knowledge of concepts they possessed at the time.


----------



## danielpalos (Sep 3, 2017)

I think most guys would give consent, if women were better helpmeets, and became adept at better, "social management" for their Man; and, get their girl friends involved to "keep him busy", and claim you expect a better, "practitioner of the Art of the Husbandman".


----------



## Taz (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


He was nothing like you.


----------



## Taz (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


So the story of Noah is bullshit, but a worldwide flood did happen? Got proof?


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


So in other words you don't know if he was queer or not.


----------



## Taz (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


He was nothing like you, so not queer. Give up, you lost.


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


I'm sure they thought it was world wide.  Just exactly when did man know the extent of the world, Einstein?

As for proof, every ancient civilization has an account of a massive flood.  Heck, the account of the flood was encoded as symbols in the written Chinese language 4500 years ago, numb nuts.


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


How do you know?


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz's favorite destination is de Nile.


----------



## danielpalos (Sep 3, 2017)

Would guys consent to their woman having a night out with the girls or a boy friend, if you had girl friends who were willing to come over and keep you busy practicing?


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Normalization of deviance happens all the time.


----------



## Taz (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


So the ACTUAL story of the worldwide flood is also made up. 

So what about making a woman out of a man's rib? What real event is that depicting?


----------



## Taz (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


Why do you care? Thinking about queer dads make you feel good?


----------



## Taz (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> Taz's favorite destination is de Nile.


Why? Did you find a lot of queer dads there?


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Ummm.... no, I didn't say that.  It happened.  All the ancient civilizations had an account of the flood, Taz.  Stop being so obtuse.  

Maybe it's that queer gene you possess that makes you act contrary.


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz's favorite destination is de Nile.
> ...


You tell us.  You're the one in denial.


----------



## danielpalos (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> Normalization of deviance happens all the time.


So does, evolving civil rights.


----------



## danielpalos (Sep 3, 2017)

Why would Any guy have a problem if his woman asked for permission to "get used by some other guy"?


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


So you don't know, right?


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Why would Any guy have a problem if his woman asked for permission to "get used by some other guy"?


It sounds like you are speaking from experience.


----------



## danielpalos (Sep 3, 2017)

It cannot be "wrong" to ask women to, "bear true witness" to their Man.


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Normalization of deviance happens all the time.
> ...


Not the same thing unless it is a lowering of a standard, Einstein.


----------



## danielpalos (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Why would Any guy have a problem if his woman asked for permission to "get used by some other guy"?
> ...


Communication is still a challenge for me; I must need a lot more practice.  Know any nice girls?


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> It cannot be "wrong" to ask women to, "bear true witness" to their Man.


Way to normalize a deviance, bro.  Predictable surprises await!


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


Sure I do.  Don't you?


----------



## danielpalos (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


Individual Liberty is simply that; it is not an excuse for licentiousness, for Persons of morals.


----------



## danielpalos (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > It cannot be "wrong" to ask women to, "bear true witness" to their Man.
> ...


A woman bearing True Witness to her Man, deviant, to You?


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

They say you're not supposed to feed the trolls but I can't help it.  They are just so darn cute.


----------



## danielpalos (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


no.  it can be very difficult to find nice girls for free, when the guy doesn't have a petty cash fund for it, under Any form of Capitalism.


----------



## Taz (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


But it's not the story of a particular flood that wiped out all the people except for Noah's gang.

So what about the rib making a woman? What's that all about?


----------



## danielpalos (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> They say you're not supposed to feed the trolls but I can't help it.  They are just so darn cute.


No substance?  Are you pursuing a doctorate in fluff.


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


I can tell from your question that you don't quite grasp the concept of normalization of deviance.  That's understandable not everyone is knowledgeable enough or intelligent enough to understand.  But if you keep trying, I am sure you will be able to get it before you suffer too many predictable surprises.


----------



## danielpalos (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


This is the moral concept:

A woman bearing True Witness to her Man.


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > They say you're not supposed to feed the trolls but I can't help it.  They are just so darn cute.
> ...


Just having fun, bro, don't get your panties all wadded up.  

Besides, if you can't take it maybe you shouldn't be dishing it out.


----------



## Taz (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


Dude, you seem upset because your hassling me about being gay isn't working. Is that all you have?


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


Sure, and normalization of deviance can be applied to moral issues.


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


It's the same event, Einstein.  That's why all those cultures in that part of the world recorded it and passed it down verbally.  Yeesh... am I dealing with an idiot or something?


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Not at all.  I am having a great time messing with you, bro.  

Don't cry about it, Janeen.


----------



## Taz (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


So which flood in history wiped out all the people and animals except for someone's boat who had all the animals on it?


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Having a hard time understanding what allegorical means, I see.  That's understandable, it's an advanced concept.


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

While Taz is trying to think up something witty to say we have some time to discuss quantum mechanics.


----------



## Taz (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


So that story isn't based on any one actual event. So let's move on. So what about a woman made out of a man's rib, what's that's supposed to be depicting?


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Nope.  I already told you it was a single event that all of the civilizations witnessed at that time and what was recorded in the Bible was an allegorical account of it.  You're not very bright are you?


----------



## hobelim (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...




A rib is the bone closest to the heart.


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Well... to understand that we first need to go back to the point when the universe was contained in the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth of the size of an atom.  Can you tell me what happened next?


----------



## Taz (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


So there was no real event that wiped out all the humans and animals in the area. Ok, so what about the rib woman. What's her story?


----------



## Taz (Sep 3, 2017)

hobelim said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


LOL! Dude just comes and spouts any old thing.


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Again, you don't quite have what I was saying. Try again.


----------



## Taz (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


What does that have to do with making a woman out of a man's rib?


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz said:


> Ok, so what about the rib woman. What's her story?



To understand that you first need to go back to the point when the universe was contained in the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth of the size of an atom. Can you tell me what happened next?


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Every story naturally begins at the beginning, Taz.  

Can you tell me what happened after the universe was contained in the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth of the size of an atom?


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

It's a yes or no question, taz.  Don't spend too long hurting yourself to answer it, bro.


----------



## Taz (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


Is it called the point to which you deflect all the questions that you can't answer? Did I get it right?


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Who is having more fun here?  Me  or Taz?


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


No.  It's the point where you prove you are ignorant about science even though you think you are the smart one here.  I'm just proving beyond a shadow of doubt that you aren't.


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

This is a classic example of Taz's normalization of deviance.


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

I bet if Taz's locus of control was anymore external he would reside in a parallel universe.


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

I used to think that Taz was clueless and ignorant.  Now I realize I got that backwards, he's ignorant and clueless.


----------



## hobelim (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz said:


> hobelim said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...




  If you think thats funny the dust of the earth was a metaphor that translates more accurately into what we would think of as the scum of the earth,,, a lowlife.

He was take from scum of the earth formed into a living being, defiled and contaminated his mind against all warnings,  and, consequently,  was returned to the scum of the earth to live out the rest of his days like a numbskull.


----------



## Taz (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


So since you're the smart one, which real event is making a woman out of a man's rib referring to?


----------



## hobelim (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> I used to think that Taz was clueless and ignorant.  Now I realize I got that backwards, he's ignorant and clueless.


 

Note to Taz.


careful..Many believers think that being repulsive is a superpower.


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Sure, but we have to start at the beginning.  Can you tell me what happened after the universe was contained in the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth of the size of an atom?


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

hobelim said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > I used to think that Taz was clueless and ignorant.  Now I realize I got that backwards, he's ignorant and clueless.
> ...


And many bullies only respond to bigger bullies


----------



## hobelim (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> hobelim said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...




Hey, if you want to live out the rest of your days acting like a degenerate numbskull go right ahead.


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

hobelim said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > hobelim said:
> ...


Troll says what?


----------



## danielpalos (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


This is the moral issue:



> * Exodus 20:16King James Version (KJV)*
> 
> 16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


Are you confusing lying with bearing false witness.  While bearing false witness requires a lie, not all lies bear false witness.  Try again.


----------



## hobelim (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> hobelim said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...




You might not realize this in your critical condition but every time someone asks you a simple question like Taz did about Adams rib your veil of scientific pretensions disappears and you puke juvenile insults....

You don't even have enough presence of mind or objective self awareness to be embarrassed, let alone express any rational explanation for your irrational beliefs.

Basically a hell bent numbskull.

Did that help?


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

hobelim said:


> You might not realize this in your critical condition but every time someone asks you a simple question like Taz did about Adams rib your veil of scientific pretensions disappears and you puke juvenile insults....



Of course I realize it. 

I just disagree with your implication that they care about the answers.  In case you didn't notice I always start off answering them.  Then when they intentionally misstate what I say, I move on to playing their game except my game is to expose their ignorance on science.


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

hobelim said:


> You don't even have enough presence of mind or objective self awareness to be embarrassed, let alone express any rational explanation for your irrational beliefs.



Don't be silly.  Of course I am aware of what I am doing.  I don't rationalize it is right either.  You just make sure you don't fall off your high horse, ok?  

If you could explain how my beliefs were irrational you would, but since they aren't, you can't.


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

hobelim said:


> Basically a numbskull.
> 
> Did that help?



I don't believe I am.  I'm more of a dick.

Do you feel better now?


----------



## hobelim (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> hobelim said:
> 
> 
> > You might not realize this in your critical condition but every time someone asks you a simple question like Taz did about Adams rib your veil of scientific pretensions disappears and you puke juvenile insults....
> ...



Your game is to expose their ignorance on science?? ROFLMAO

  You would better spend your time if you quietly learned your A,B,C's, then how to read, then how to understand fairy tales. 

Then you can advance to basic arithmetic like 1+1+1= 3


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

hobelim said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > hobelim said:
> ...


I hope you don't mind if I see that the other way around.


----------



## hobelim (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> hobelim said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


 

Alright already, I'm convinced.

You are a dick....


----------



## Taz (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


So you have nothing. Figures.


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

hobelim said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > hobelim said:
> ...


Thank you. Now if you would only see that you are a dick too all would be right in the world.


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


I have it all.   In fact, you are walking around with nothing because I have it all.


----------



## danielpalos (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


We have a McCarthy era phrase in our pledge but no anti-hypocrisy laws on the books.

How important can morals be.


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


Only outcomes can answer that.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


*The Dutch?  Not Much.*

Maybe she thought all she had to was what Holland's Little Dike Boy did:  just put a finger in it.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


*Dykes Calling Strikes*

Maybe she was an umpire.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


*She Talks, She Walks, She Stalks, She Calls Balks.  She Does All Right for a Girl.*

Ray Chill Maddow will be the umpire.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Wreck-a- Mecca


----------



## Gracie (Sep 3, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> > AND...I find it just a tad hypocritical that you would claim to be a Christian, even though a backsliding one, while committing adultry. Don't you?
> ...


None of the above. I just  have little patience for those who commit sin while waggling their finger at other sinners. Or supposed sin/sinners. Some of the bible I believe...the rest, not so much.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Cannnibals having a barbecue. Plenty of ho'es attended, so maybe that's how the story got confused.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Sep 3, 2017)

hobelim said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > hobelim said:
> ...


You mean Obama?  I knew Michelle talked to snakes, but I didn't make the connection.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Sep 3, 2017)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Trading barbecue for *****?


----------



## Divine Wind (Sep 3, 2017)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Borillar said:
> 
> 
> > LittleNipper said:
> ...


Which is a belief in itself....Yes, I know atheists looooove to say "_No, dammit, it's disbelief!!!_"

You are free to believe that you're just a meat computer driven solely by chemical programming.  You are free to believe self-aware beings are no more valuable than a dead light bulb when their lives are snuffed out...and not worth anything when they are alive.  

If you do believe your life has value, please explain to me why.   What does it matter?


----------



## Divine Wind (Sep 3, 2017)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


Good trade.


----------



## Divine Wind (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


Ummmm, not according to the link below, but I'll readily agree some lies are worse than others. 

Thou Shall Not Bear False Witness
..._The bearing of false testimony is strictly prohibited by God, no matter how innovative we become! Any understanding of what God was saying to His children is greatly enhanced by a clear understanding of what it means to tell a lie. Bearing false testimony also carries with it the basic idea of fabrication, which, simply put, means to make something up. Exaggeration fits right in with God’s prohibition because any effort to stretch the truth is, in and of itself, a fabrication. When God said, “You shall not bear false witness” (Exodus 20:16), He was definitively pointing to the heart of man. Not even a person’s creativity with the truth is acceptable to God.._..


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


who said that link is right?


----------



## Divine Wind (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


The Billy Graham website supports that point of view.  Who says you are right?

Are you trying to absolve your own lies?


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


Common sense.  I already explained it to you.  Not all lies bear false witness.  

No.  Why would I do that?


----------



## Divine Wind (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


According to the link, all "false witness" is a lie.  It's fabrication.  It distorts the truth.  Most fisherman (note the irony!) notoriously bear false witness about their catch.  My point is that such a falsehood is minor to lying about something in order to cause a person harm.  Still, a lie is a lie.  Once on the path of deception, where does it stop?


----------



## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


But not all lies are false witness against your neighbor.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour - Wikipedia


----------



## Divine Wind (Sep 3, 2017)

ding said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


You can use Wiki, I'll use Billy Graham. 

The CBN weighs in here too: What Does It Mean To Bear False Witness?
_...A Christian might not be involved in drug addiction, drunkenness, fornication, adultery, or homosexuality, but a Christian may be big on slander and backbiting. I can think of no practice--other than deep-seated hatred and lack of forgiveness--that will so quickly cut off the blessing and power of God in a Christian's life_.

What does the Bible say about a false witness?
..._The lies told by a false witness come from the sinful human heart—along with murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, slander, and evil thoughts (Matthew 15:19). Jesus said that man is defiled by these evil things that come from the heart. The only possible cure for an evil heart that bears false witness is to receive a new, pure heart, which can only be given by God (Ezekiel 36:26). When a person is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, he will be like a fresh spring or a fruitful tree or a budding vine, bursting with good things (John 7:38; Psalm 1:1–6; John 15:4–5). The old is gone, and the new takes its place (Ephesians 4:22–24). Those who are in Christ have a new heart that speaks the truth: “Each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to your neighbor” (Ephesians 4:25). A person who bears false witness is controlled by the flesh rather than by the Spirit of God, and he should repent of that sin and turn to Christ.
_
*"There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to Him...a lying tongue...a false witness who breathes out lies..." (Proverbs 6:16–19).*


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## ding (Sep 3, 2017)

Works for me.


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## GreatestIam (Sep 4, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?



According to the standards of our courts and mens rea, yes, it would be immoral to discriminate against gays without a just cause.

No one has ever found a cause worthy of using to discriminate against gays and thus all who do are acting in an unethical and immoral way.

Regards
DL


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## danielpalos (Sep 4, 2017)

ding said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


Should we ask North Korea for monocultural leadership advice instead of our Own, Kentucky Colonels?


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## The Sage of Main Street (Sep 4, 2017)

*BIG BROUHAHA IS WATCHING YOU*

Homosexuality is not a religious issue, no matter what the Bigshots who sponsor and moderate the debate tell you.


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## Bonzi (Sep 4, 2017)

GreatestIam said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think?
> ...


Yet there is freedom of religion, no?


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## Taz (Sep 4, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> GreatestIam said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


No, sharia isn't allowed.


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## Borillar (Sep 4, 2017)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Borillar said:
> 
> 
> > LittleNipper said:
> ...


I am not going to claim there is no God, but I do agree that if a deity exists, it almost surely will not be anything like the character in biblical allegory. All these fantastic traits - knows all, sees all, all powerful, almighty, etc. Yet his creations have all sorts of faults. How can perfection create imperfection? If anything, God seems to be a pretty much hands off character. God put creation in motion, setting physical laws, creating life, and then left it all alone to carry on. He doesn't appear to intervene with hurricanes, earthquakes, typhoons, nor does he interfere with humans killing each other off in world wars, genocides, or religious crusades. If he exists, he doesn't appear to care very much about our doings.


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## ding (Sep 4, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


Feel free to do so.  I don't think there is a travel ban there just yet.


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## Divine Wind (Sep 4, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> GreatestIam said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


Correct. OTOH, US courts are secular and rule based on law, not morality..as they should be.  Lots of immoral, but lawful people.  Only a court based on religion such as Spain during the Inquisition, Iran, Saudi Arabia and the like would rule based on their views of morality.

By his own standard, the same applies to adultery and teen sex.   Obviously some people object to both based on moral reasons even if the courts are only concerned about legal reasons.  

If you don't know "Greatest I am", try Googling his username to learn about his typical posts across the Internet.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 4, 2017)

"*Is It Wrong to Think Homosexuality is a Sin?"
*

It's not really "wrong" to think anything. Think whatever you want. Just don't complain when you present these thoughts for public consumption and get pushback.  And especially don't  complain when you try to codify your opinion that "it is a sin" into law and your belief is completely destroyed by reason.


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## Divine Wind (Sep 4, 2017)

Borillar said:


> ....How can perfection create imperfection?....


By choice.


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## Borillar (Sep 4, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Borillar said:
> 
> 
> > ....How can perfection create imperfection?....
> ...


But that doesn't match the narrative of the earlier poster who claimed that God created a perfect world where the animals coexisted and plants weren't poisonous, etc. Clearly, that's a lot of bunk.


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## ding (Sep 4, 2017)

Borillar said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> > Borillar said:
> ...


Why would He?


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## danielpalos (Sep 5, 2017)

ding said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


Not for monocultural advocating, right wingers.


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## Divine Wind (Sep 5, 2017)

Borillar said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Borillar said:
> ...


Anyone who says people are perfect is obviously wrong.  As for poisonous plants, that's a self-defense mechanism.  Good for the plant, no so much for those trying to eat it.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Sep 5, 2017)

*A Sexually Confused Generation Loses the Will to Survive*

Things work both ways, not just the bossy fairyphile Liberals' way.  Therefore, "It is not a sin (or a practice that threatens a healthy society)" is also a minority group's personal dogma being forced on the majority through tyrannical methods such as legislative or judicial elitism.


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## danielpalos (Sep 5, 2017)

uncleanliness may be a sin and a public health hazard and public nuisance.  

better infrastructure!


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## impuretrash (Sep 5, 2017)

that's what it says in the book


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## danielpalos (Sep 5, 2017)

impuretrash said:


> that's what it says in the book


Proverbs 6:16-19:

_16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:


17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,


18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,


19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren._


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## impuretrash (Sep 5, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> impuretrash said:
> 
> 
> > that's what it says in the book
> ...




I know it mentions fags in there somewhere


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## danielpalos (Sep 5, 2017)

impuretrash said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > impuretrash said:
> ...


I believe true gamorrans and true sodomites make better citizens than false Christians.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 5, 2017)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> *A Sexually Confused Generation Loses the Will to Survive*
> 
> Things work both ways, not just the bossy fairyphile Liberals' way.  Therefore, "It is not a sin (or a practice that threatens a healthy society)" is also a minority group's personal dogma being forced on the majority through tyrannical methods such as legislative or judicial elitism.



What a bunch of embarrassing garbage.... somewhere along the line you cultist weirdos got confused into thinking that not letting you oppress people is oppression of you.  You're losing big time, check the scoreboard.


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## Syriusly (Sep 5, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



Actually according to the words of Jesus- not any interpretation- with the exception being if the wife cheated on the husband(but not the other way around)

8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”


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## Bonzi (Sep 5, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Gracie said:
> ...


I'm totally guilty either way


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## Syriusly (Sep 5, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> > Borillar said:
> ...



No more than not collecting stamps is a hobby the same as collecting stamps.

You of course can believe whatever you want about how I an atheist thinks- that is of course your belief.


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## Syriusly (Sep 5, 2017)

ding said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...



There are Christians who will rationalize that they can lie just so long as they are not 'bearing false witness' and then twist themselves into logical knots trying to rationalize why their lie is not 'bearing false witness'- but yes they are.


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## Syriusly (Sep 5, 2017)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> *A Sexually Confused Generation Loses the Will to Survive*
> 
> Things work both ways, not just the bossy fairyphile Liberals' way.  Therefore, "It is not a sin (or a practice that threatens a healthy society)" is also a minority group's personal dogma being forced on the majority through tyrannical methods such as legislative or judicial elitism.



And by 'being forced' on the majority- you mean no longer prosecuting Americans for private consensual sex, or preventing a couple from marrying because of their race or sexual orientation.


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## Taz (Sep 5, 2017)

Homosexuality is not a sin because Jesus died nailed to wood to wipe them all out.


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## Divine Wind (Sep 5, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > C_Clayton_Jones said:
> ...


Bad analogy since stamp collecting is, indeed, a hobby.  It can be proved to be a hobby and someone who isn't a stamp collector can be proved to not collect stamps.   Believing or _disbelieving_ in something completely intangible and unprovable is a matter of faith since whether or not there is anything beyond the physical universe cannot be proved or disproved.

Now, we can certainly agree that it can be proved that the Earth is older than 6000 years old, that the Big Bang happened and evolution is how life _developed_ on Earth.  What cannot be proved is why the Big Bang happened and whether or not life can spontaneously generate out of non-living matter.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Sep 6, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> The Sage of Main Street said:
> 
> 
> > *A Sexually Confused Generation Loses the Will to Survive*
> ...


*Warning Signs*

Once again, you malicious fairyphiles preach to your choir something shallow that sounds true only if you don't think about it.  You add to your deceit by calling punishment "oppression." In a nation with a future, punishment of homosexuality is self-defense against aggressive degenerates who have throughout history weakened society and contributed to its collapse.  But Liberals want to appease them, other criminals, and our foreign enemies.


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## Bonzi (Sep 6, 2017)

it is true.  historically, the more sexual freedom that is allowed, the weaker the state becomes....


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## Bonzi (Sep 6, 2017)

Unfortunately, we as humans don't always instinctively know what is best for ourselves.

We crave junk food
We do drugs knowing full well they are destructive to our bodies

Sexual deviancy is no different.  And it's not just limited to homosexuality, it includes fetishes and other things of all kinds that I really don't need to spell out here...


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## danielpalos (Sep 6, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> it is true.  historically, the more sexual freedom that is allowed, the weaker the state becomes....


Any examples?


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## danielpalos (Sep 6, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Unfortunately, we as humans don't always instinctively know what is best for ourselves.
> 
> We crave junk food
> We do drugs knowing full well they are destructive to our bodies
> ...


I am practicing tolerance regarding women being their modern selves in modern times.


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## Syriusly (Sep 6, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



How do you prove that someone does not collect stamps? Certainly you can search for proof that they do collect stamps- but you can't really prove that someone doesn't collect stamps. 

Now let us try another thought experiment.

A child is raised without any exposure to religion, without being told fairy tales, without any tales of the supernatural- with no exposure to the concept of gods or religion or faith.

That child- if she developed her own faith- would indeed have a faith. But if she didn't- she would be a clean slate- absent of any faith.  She would be an atheist. She would lack a belief in god.

Just like I do.

By taking their word for


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## Syriusly (Sep 6, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Sexual deviancy is no different.  And it's not just limited to homosexuality, it includes fetishes and other things of all kinds that I really don't need to spell out here...



"Sexual deviancy" is a moving target. Oral sex and masturbation were both once considered 'sexual deviancy'- hell even women having orgasms was considered by some puritans to be sexual deviancy. 

So I pretty much don't worry about what kind of sex consenting adults prefer to do.


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## Syriusly (Sep 6, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> it is true.  historically, the more sexual freedom that is allowed, the weaker the state becomes....



Tell us about how much weaker the United States has become since Lawrence vs. Texas. 

Or since the legalization of birth control.


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## Syriusly (Sep 6, 2017)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > The Sage of Main Street said:
> ...



Poor little homophobic snowflake- still pissed off that you can no longer gather up 5 or 6 of your toughest, bravest friends to find some some lone guy you consider to be a 'fairy' and bravely beat him up- and get away with hit.


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## Syriusly (Sep 6, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



I agree- we can't yet prove those things- and frankly I expect that there were be major tweaks to both theories.

That doesn't mean I have to believe that there might be a god.


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## Divine Wind (Sep 6, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


The same way you prove someone is a drug-dealer.  

Most people, regardless of culture and upbringing, have some kind of spiritual beliefs.  It's part of being human.  OTOH, like some people are born blind or deaf, some being born "blind" to their own spirituality is, no doubt, part of the human condition.  Not their fault.  Just the way it is.


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## Syriusly (Sep 6, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



How do you prove someone is not a drug dealer?


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## Syriusly (Sep 6, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



Most people have some kind of spiritual beliefs- because of their culture and upbringing. 

Virtually no one is raised without some exposure to culture and upbringing- but like i said- this is a thought experiment. 

You believe that is someone was raised without any exposure to religion or religious faith they would somehow automatically and inevitably invent some spiritual beliefs. 

I don't.


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## Divine Wind (Sep 6, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


As others have pointed out and as I've alluded before, "religion" is a tool towards learning about one's own spirituality just like learning TKD or Jujitsu is a tool towards learning self-defense.  The Bible, IMO, is man's perceptions of a power that created the Universe.  The caveat is that a power capable of creating the Universe is beyond our mortal ability to comprehend that even comparing it to an ant trying to comprehend the Solar System would be greatly underestimating the problem.  Still, we can try to understand what we can.  If someone just wants to believe WYSIWYG and that's all there is, that's their choice.  

Let's not forget that besides "religion", philosophy is a very big subject among human cultures.  It's often as intangible as spirituality and is often related to it.

An oldie but a goodie:


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## Divine Wind (Sep 6, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


Close and constant observation for 30 years should provide some clues.


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## Divine Wind (Sep 6, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


Hence my point.  Across all cultures, all history, no matter how diverse or how isolated.

How many cultures do you know of which were completely atheistic?


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## Divine Wind (Sep 6, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Most people have some kind of spiritual beliefs- because of their culture and upbringing.
> 
> Virtually no one is raised without some exposure to culture and upbringing- but like i said- this is a thought experiment.
> 
> ...


Understood, but disagreed.   If a bunch of babies were placed on an island and raised by machines, I believe they'd not only invent their own culture, but as they went through pubescence, would do what came natural.  Similarly, since spirituality not only seems to be a natural part of ourselves, including genetically (a dicey subject for some!), I think they'd become spiritual.

Sure, some would become "religious" just like B.F. Skinner's "religious pigeons", but the smart ones would contemplate existence itself thus exploring the same questions countless philosophers and spiritual-seekers have done throughout history.


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## Syriusly (Sep 6, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



Religion can be a tool for a person to 'learn about one's own spirtuality' - or it can be other things. 

And I agree that religion and philosophy are often related.


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## Syriusly (Sep 6, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Most people have some kind of spiritual beliefs- because of their culture and upbringing.
> ...



Why have them raised by machines?

If children were raised without any history of religion or teachings of 'spirituality' and taught of the hard sciences of biology and chemistry- I don't think that they would ever come up with the concept of spirits. 
A few might make up stories about what happens to them when they die but I think that would be about it.


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## Syriusly (Sep 6, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...



How many cultures developed with a working knowledge of chemistry and biology? 

I agree that humans have a tendency to create stories to explain what they do not comprehend. So lightning becomes gods fighting each other, and earthquakes a god rolling over, and a flood a god punishing humanity. 

But.....humans(generally) don't blame gods on floods, and earthquakes and lightning. Because we understand the science of behind them.


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## Divine Wind (Sep 6, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


To avoid the contamination of being culturally influenced as per your "thought experiment".






That's a hypothesis difficult to prove.  What we can prove is that, throughout the world and throughout history, all cultures have developed some form of spiritual awareness even though they were isolated from all the others.


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## Divine Wind (Sep 6, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


You are conjecturing that if children were raised educated in the sciences that they'd never develop any spiritual awareness.  Dude, human being's aren't "Vulcans".  Even though many very educated modern people are moving away from "religion", they are not without spiritual awareness. 

Religion and the Unaffiliated
_The religiously unaffiliated are comprised of three distinct subgroups. About three-in-ten of the unaffiliated describe their religion as either atheist (12%) or agnostic (17%), while about seven-in-ten describe their religion as “nothing in particular” (71%)._





_By contrast, among the religiously unaffiliated, 18% describe themselves as religious, 37% say they are spiritual but not religious, and about four-in-ten say they are neither (42%).

Among atheists and agnostics, 57% say they are neither spiritual nor religious, while a third consider themselves to be spiritual but not religious (34%). Just 7% of atheists and agnostics describe themselves as religious._


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## The Sage of Main Street (Sep 7, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> it is true.  historically, the more sexual freedom that is allowed, the weaker the state becomes....


*Whoever Controls Language Controls Thought *

Except that "homosexuality" is not sexual.  It is a symptom of a deep psychological deficiency.  Psychiatrists call it a sexuality because it is easier and more lucrative to pander to than to cure.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 7, 2017)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > it is true.  historically, the more sexual freedom that is allowed, the weaker the state becomes....
> ...



Ah, looks like we have us another blog-educated expert that has managed to fool himself into thinking he is more qualified in a scientific field than the people who have dedicated their lives to it.  This always fascinates me.


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## LittleNipper (Sep 7, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> The Sage of Main Street said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


No one is dedicated to homosexuality unless one thinks one has something to gain from it...  Homosexuality is in fact missing the master plan point of sex.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 7, 2017)

LittleNipper said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > The Sage of Main Street said:
> ...



Says you. That's not snark, that's actually the most important principle I hope you take away from this discussion. "Says you"...so don't have gay sex. Problem solved, thanks for coming.


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## LittleNipper (Sep 7, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


 So don't forget to buy your wedding cake from someone in full agreement ---forget the lawsuits --- problem solved.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 7, 2017)

LittleNipper said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > LittleNipper said:
> ...



That's not an appropriate response to what I said, as there is a stark, clear difference between forcing the maker's hand through legislation or existing laws, and by boycotting his store.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Sep 8, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> The Sage of Main Street said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


*Shrink and Sink*

Quit imagining things.  No blog informs us that "homosexuality" is not a sexuality at all. Next the psychiatric cartel will use its unearned prestige to invent "pedosexuality" in order to make money off a new victim group.  "Dedicated" people can be escapist fanatics trying to compensate for personal inadequacies, you know.


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## Bonzi (Sep 8, 2017)

I'm not sure of the statistics, but I would like to know the percentage of homosexuals that came from a solid mother(female)/father(male) household - where the parents loved each other and stayed together..... granted, that is rare but, even if the parents stayed together......

I have no proof, but, seems to me many gays come from single parent households, OR, where they FEMALE is the dominant parent.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 8, 2017)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > The Sage of Main Street said:
> ...




Yes yes, I know. You have it all figured out, while those educated in and practicing psychiatry somehow all lost their way. Or they are all lying just to push a new world faggy liberal agenda on people living in trailer parks. What they need is an expert like you to wake them up.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 8, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> I'm not sure of the statistics, but I would like to know the percentage of homosexuals that came from a solid mother(female)/father(male) household - where the parents loved each other and stayed together..... granted, that is rare but, even if the parents stayed together......
> 
> I have no proof, but, seems to me many gays come from single parent households, OR, where they FEMALE is the dominant parent.



Funny, I was thinking that uber reiligious, puritan bringers of judgment like you all come from households where the parents molest their children. We'll just have to agree we're both correct.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Sep 9, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> I'm not sure of the statistics, but I would like to know the percentage of homosexuals that came from a solid mother(female)/father(male) household - where the parents loved each other and stayed together..... granted, that is rare but, even if the parents stayed together......
> 
> I have no proof, but, seems to me many gays come from single parent households, OR, where they FEMALE is the dominant parent.


*Penis-Envy Piranhas*

Feminism is unnatural and causes unnatural behavior in sons and daughters.


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## danielpalos (Sep 9, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


Like gender studies?


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## danielpalos (Sep 9, 2017)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > it is true.  historically, the more sexual freedom that is allowed, the weaker the state becomes....
> ...


I believe it is "immoral for women to be lousy help-meets", and take a God's name in Vain, in that manner; regardless of Any form of Capitalism.


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## danielpalos (Sep 9, 2017)

LittleNipper said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > LittleNipper said:
> ...


Should we start with the right wing?


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## danielpalos (Sep 9, 2017)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > The Sage of Main Street said:
> ...


disambiguation.  

homo sexual means same sex 
hetero sexual means different sex.


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## Divine Wind (Sep 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


What about gender studies and how does that relate to Atheism vs. Theism?


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## danielpalos (Sep 9, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> I'm not sure of the statistics, but I would like to know the percentage of homosexuals that came from a solid mother(female)/father(male) household - where the parents loved each other and stayed together..... granted, that is rare but, even if the parents stayed together......
> 
> I have no proof, but, seems to me many gays come from single parent households, OR, where they FEMALE is the dominant parent.


Patriarchies usually do their own enforcing.


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## danielpalos (Sep 9, 2017)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not sure of the statistics, but I would like to know the percentage of homosexuals that came from a solid mother(female)/father(male) household - where the parents loved each other and stayed together..... granted, that is rare but, even if the parents stayed together......
> ...


Masculinsim in the good olde days, meant the Spartans could call men who wanted walls, "girly men".


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## danielpalos (Sep 9, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


I look at it, like this: We have a McCarthy era phrase in our pledge but no anti-hypocrisy laws on the books.  

How serious can the right wing be about morals.

It is like having an economy on a "wartime footing", and claiming we need to lower taxes.

It is simply, _incredible_.


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## Divine Wind (Sep 9, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> I'm not sure of the statistics, but I would like to know the percentage of homosexuals that came from a solid mother(female)/father(male) household - where the parents loved each other and stayed together..... granted, that is rare but, even if the parents stayed together......
> 
> I have no proof, but, seems to me many gays come from single parent households, OR, where they FEMALE is the dominant parent.


Sexual preference seems to be genetic albeit with some prenatal influences, especially in regards to anything not purely heterosexual.  Sure, having a two parents reinforces sexual roles and behaviors, but all that does is cause a homosexual to repress their impulses until they mature as an adult.  Hence why we see 50 year old males divorce Susie and move in with Billie.


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## Divine Wind (Sep 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


Okaaaaaay, what does that have to do with your statement "Like gender studies"?  

What does a 1950s addition of "Under God" have to do with RW morals?  We had Democratic Congresses and Presidents through the mid-90s.  Why didn't they change it?....or do you think LWers lack morals too?


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## danielpalos (Sep 9, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


At one "moving point in time", women claimed they could not handle uncommitted sex or the lack of a really really serious relationship.


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## Divine Wind (Sep 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


Dude, I don't know what going on with you this morning, but your cryptic posts are nonsensical. 

Please speak clearly and fully on your point(s).


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## danielpalos (Sep 9, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


Okaaaaaay, what does that have to do with your statement "Like gender studies"?


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## Mortimer (Sep 9, 2017)

No not wrong at all, its wrong to think its not a sin.


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## Divine Wind (Sep 9, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


So you got nothing?  Fine.  Your right to not explain your own posts.  

Have a nice day, sir.


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## danielpalos (Sep 10, 2017)

Divine.Wind said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Divine.Wind said:
> ...


Haven't kept up with any gender studies?


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## Mousterian (Sep 15, 2017)

Hey, some gods are cool with it!


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## Syriusly (Sep 15, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> I'm not sure of the statistics, but I would like to know the percentage of homosexuals that came from a solid mother(female)/father(male) household - where the parents loved each other and stayed together..... granted, that is rare but, even if the parents stayed together......
> 
> I have no proof, but, seems to me many gays come from single parent households, OR, where they FEMALE is the dominant parent.



Frankly I don't know of a single gay friend of mine that comes from that scenario.

Matter of fact- everyone I know whose parents divorced is heterosexual. Does that mean divorce creates heterosexual children?

LOL


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## GreenBean (Sep 15, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


Thanks for the History Lesson .... your point ?


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## Bonzi (Sep 15, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not sure of the statistics, but I would like to know the percentage of homosexuals that came from a solid mother(female)/father(male) household - where the parents loved each other and stayed together..... granted, that is rare but, even if the parents stayed together......
> ...


Honestly it's not like I know a plethora of homosexuals. Maybe I do tho and just don't know it


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## Taz (Sep 16, 2017)

Jesus was gay: he hung around with only guys, only banged a woman once (once means he didn't like it), wore a dress and rode a donkey, a woman's ride. Plus his father, god, threw adam out of eden for having sex with eve after god had asked him to not bang the girl and to stay in homo heaven with him, which is pretty gay in itself.


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## Bruce_T_Laney (Sep 16, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?



In the Abrahamic Religions it is a sin and if you belong to any of them then it is a sin.

Now with that written you have your right to not sit and eat with them, allow them into your home or even converse with one, but you can not deny them their Constitutional  rights.

They can not force your Church to Marry them or accept them nor can they force you to accept them nor should they deny you your Constitutional  rights. 

Because you do not like Homosexuals or Lesbians is your choice and let God judge us because neither side is God...


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## Bonzi (Sep 16, 2017)

Bruce_T_Laney said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think?
> ...



Many Christians don't dislike homosexuals.  Many do, however.  I would think that most people that understand what being a Christian is, will love others, BUT, first and foremost, love their God and do what the believe is pleasing to God (whatever that is) - God hates sin  -  OF ALL KINDS - yet, we can not be without sin, it's impossible.  Jesus died to cover that sin, so, the bottom line is acknowledging the free gift of salvation - that Jesus died so you can be acceptable in God's sight - and, if you do that, you will understand the sacrifice and want to live a life pleasing to God


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## Bruce_T_Laney (Sep 16, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



I live my life according to Bruce and the golden rule " Do onto others as you shall have done onto you " and the rest can be judged by a God, Divine, Chaos, Anu or whatever is after this.

In the end you have your rights just like everyone else under the Constitutuon...


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## Bonzi (Sep 16, 2017)

Bruce_T_Laney said:


> live my life according to Bruce and the golden rule " Do onto others as you shall have done onto you " and the rest can be judged by a God, Divine, Chaos, Anu or whatever is after this.
> 
> In the end you have your rights just like everyone else under the Constitutuon...



I actually agree with that.  You have to abide by the laws the Country makes, and deal with them as a part of life in this country.  Whether it's homosexual marriage, or the elected President.


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## Syriusly (Sep 17, 2017)

GreenBean said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > GreenBean said:
> ...



That was in response to the post that said
_
Why do you Dhimmis take it for granted that everybody thinks the Crusaders were evildoers? E_


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## GreenBean (Sep 17, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


gotcha ...


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## Aletheia4u (Sep 17, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?


 It comes from not obeying God. Let's say that you have eating a certain type of food that we are not to eat. But that food might have an effect on your seeds. But God is the only one  that can prevents your seeds from being infected by the affects that it causes, and or causing hormonal changes that the foods can cause. But It says that He will hand those over to whatever the foods can cause, to those that keeps on disobeying .


Romans 1:26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.


Leviticus 11:10 But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales—whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water—you are to regard as unclean.

Leviticus 11:42 You are not to eat any creature that moves along the ground, whether it moves on its belly or walks on all fours or on many feet; it is unclean. 43 Do not defile yourselves by any of these creatures. Do not make yourselves unclean by means of them or be made unclean by them. 44 I am the Lord your God; consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am holy. Do not make yourselves unclean by any creature that moves along the ground.


List of Hermaphrodite Animals


What Animals that contain both male and female sex organs are said to be be

How Your Diet Affects Your Hormones During Menopause


Deuteronomy 5:33 Walk in obedience to all that the Lord your God has commanded you, so that you may live and prosper and prolong your days in the land that you will possess.


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## Bonzi (Sep 18, 2017)

Aletheia4u said:


> It comes from not obeying God. Let's say that you have eating a certain type of food that we are not to eat.



So, I take it, you don't believe people are "born homosexual"?


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## Aletheia4u (Sep 18, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Aletheia4u said:
> 
> 
> > It comes from not obeying God. Let's say that you have eating a certain type of food that we are not to eat.
> ...


 Some were born in that condition and some were forced, and others made themselves to be in that condition. But it is all dealing with imbalance.  Doctors has already has found out that homosexuality is caused by faultiness of the sex glands. Like young girls that are molested, or raped, that for some reason in some cases  that it stimulates the pituitary. That the glands will grow a tumor, because of the early release of sex hormones and which some females , that it will causes Gigantism, or early development of  Breast and widen hips. Making the young child ready for having children. And so certain things at certain times can have an strange affect on development.
 But no, that God didn't made humans to have relations with the same sex. They will not be able to procreate that away. And homosexuality is not a normal functioning behavior for human beings. Incest is not a normal behavior as well. But a lot of people do practiced it for hundreds of years. But that doesn't make it to be categorized as a normal behavior.

The study of the *causes of transsexuality* investigates gender identity formation of transgender people, especially those who are transsexual. Transsexual people have a gender identity that does not match their assigned sex, often resulting in gender dysphoria.[1] The causes of transsexualism have been studied for decades. Causes of transsexuality - Wikipedia

 .   Gigantism

 Matthew 19:12  For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.


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## Bonzi (Sep 18, 2017)

Aletheia4u said:


> Some were born in that condition and some were forced, and others made themselves to be in that condition



I'm not saying if you are "born that way" that necessarily makes it productive to give in to those inclinations or urges.  I agree, there is always a reason for the "imbalance"


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## Taz (Sep 18, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Aletheia4u said:
> 
> 
> > Some were born in that condition and some were forced, and others made themselves to be in that condition
> ...


Homosexuality isn't an imbalance and can be found throughout nature. In other words, it's part of your god's plan. Now stop being so afraid.


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## Syriusly (Sep 18, 2017)

Aletheia4u said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > Aletheia4u said:
> ...



But incestuous couples can procreate. So procreation is not the issue that makes homosexuality and incest comparable. 

"Normal" of course is a concept fraught with danger. It was not 'normal' for women to wear pants until quite recently- and that is actually forbidden in the Old Testament. 

But you don't see too many Christians saying it is a sin for women to wear pants.


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## Bonzi (Sep 18, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Aletheia4u said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


But there are prices to pay for doing any of these AIDS, STDs deformities in pregnancies so unless you just stay with one partner for your entire life there's a very good risk of paying a price for that


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## g5000 (Sep 18, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?


Living together outside of marriage is a sin.

Divorcing and remarrying is adultery.  Matthew 19:9.

Why does this not bother you, but homosexuality does?

Why do you not care that adulterers can get as many marriage licenses as they wish, but get all pissy about gays getting one?

Anti-gay bigots should probably read the bible they claim to follow, and pay particular attention to the bits about hypocrisy.


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## EvilCat Breath (Sep 18, 2017)

Whether or not homosexuality is a sin is none of my business.  People are free to sin or not sin as they believe.  When it becomes my business is when their particular sin becomes so popular that it requires my participation.   Then it's my business.


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## g5000 (Sep 18, 2017)

Tipsycatlover said:


> Whether or not homosexuality is a sin is none of my business.  People are free to sin or not sin as they believe.  When it becomes my business is when their particular sin becomes so popular that it requires my participation.   Then it's my business.


When you were forced to participate in gay sex?


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 18, 2017)

Tipsycatlover said:


> Whether or not homosexuality is a sin is none of my business.  People are free to sin or not sin as they believe.  When it becomes my business is when their particular sin becomes so popular that it requires my participation.   Then it's my business.


Your participation...in gay sex?


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## EvilCat Breath (Sep 18, 2017)

g5000 said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think?
> ...



Adulterers remarry and that's a sin, but not a perversion.  Homosexuality is a perversion as well as a sin.  Why would you get all pissy about a man having sex with his horse?  Suppose the horse consents and cuddles up to the man nuzzling his crotch.  Would you object merely on the grounds that it's a perversion?


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 18, 2017)

Tipsycatlover said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


That's an idiotic point.  we acknowledge that animals can't give consent. Stop comparing people to horses, it's rude and dumb.


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## g5000 (Sep 18, 2017)

Tipsycatlover said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


A horse cannot consent to sex with a human.  Any more than a child can give consent to have sex with an adult.

It never fails you bigots try to equate gay sex with bestiality or pedophilia.  

You cannot give a rational reason for excluding gays from receiving equal protection of the laws.

The bible says remarrying is adultery.  It's a sin.  It is wrong.  Yet you don't have a problem giving someone like Kim Davis FOUR marriage licenses.


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## Aletheia4u (Sep 18, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Aletheia4u said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



 Some people has gotten so use of looking at children of incest, that as if it is normal look. Incest affects the physical features and mental behaviors. Long ago, people knows how to detect those that are from those that had practiced incest. As God had told the people in those days, that if they were to follow these laws, that they will live a good long prosperous life. Without any health issues or defects of any kind.


Children of incest 'cult' found living deformed and mute in Australian valley | Daily Mail Online




Deuteronomy 5:33 Walk in obedience to all that the Lord your God has commanded you, so that you may live and prosper and prolong your days in the land that you will possess.

Matthew 23:27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.

John 9:2 His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

 Back then, the people were ignorant, that they did not know what to eat or what to feed their cattle or flock. But now we has scientist. instead of God to show us the way how to live a long and prosperous life....


It is linked to this disease..


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## EvilCat Breath (Sep 18, 2017)

g5000 said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> > g5000 said:
> ...



No.  Kim Davis reptented and was born again.  Since she became a Christian she has no need of multiple marriage licenses.   Gays do not repent and sin no more.  Indeed, sin is an essential part of their behavior.  Which is none of my business.  They can all go to hell in a handbasket, or not.  What is my business is if I am required to participate in their marriage ceremonies.  Do I have to attend?  Bake them a wedding cake?  Arrange their flowers?  Take their pictures?  Paint their portraits?   THEN it becomes my business.  

Someone remarrying is committing a sin according to the bible.  If you believe it a sin, don't remarry.  It is NOT a perversion though and homosexuality is a perversion.


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## g5000 (Sep 18, 2017)

Tipsycatlover said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> > Tipsycatlover said:
> ...


So you believe everyone who has multiple marriages is a born again Christian who has repented?


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## g5000 (Sep 18, 2017)

See if you can identify...the people who are destroying the institution of marriage.

I did not want to derail the topic about the Oregon hillbillies who wouldn't bake a cake for a lesbian couple who were getting married, so I started this one.

Ready?  It's quiz time!

Is it this couple?


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 18, 2017)

Aletheia4u said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> > Aletheia4u said:
> ...


"Long ago, people knows how to detect those that are from those that had practiced incest.

No they didn't.  That's a lie you literally just made up. There is no birth defect or disease unique to children of incest, and they only display a slightly higher tendency to congenital defects.  Meaning, without a DNA test, the vast majority would never even be detected today, and those displaying any of the symptoms you mentioned could not be discerned as children of incest without a DNA test..  You're already on thin ice by using a bronze age religious text to address modern, scientific questions.  Making stuff up as well is not helping your position.


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## g5000 (Sep 18, 2017)

How about this family?  Newt Gingrich with his first wife and kids:







Newt cheated on his first wife with this woman, who he then made his second wife:







Well, once you get on an adultery roll, it is hard to stop.  Newt cheated on his second wife with this hoot owl, and then made her his third wife:


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## g5000 (Sep 18, 2017)

How about this couple? The Clintons:







Slick Willy couldn't keep his zipper up, and god only knows how many times he cheated on his wife.

Here are some of them:







But Hillary stood by her man. She must be a strong believer in keeping the family together, no matter what!


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## g5000 (Sep 18, 2017)

Here is The Donald with his first wife:









Maybe there was a language barrier, I don't know.  But Trump fooled around on her a lot.  The 80s were his "personal Vietnam", sex-wise.

So he made this mistress his second wife.  I think the "Trump Family Values" thing on the cover is a real treat, don't you?







Trump's second wife was an American, but he went back on a big outsourcing kick again, and dumped her so he could marry this woman:








You gotta love immigrants.  Doing the hard work Americans won't do.  She's gotta let this obese monster 30 years her senior climb on top of her.


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## EvilCat Breath (Sep 18, 2017)

g5000 said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> > g5000 said:
> ...



Your sentence construction is deficient.  I believe that everyone who has repented in Christ and is a born again Christian no longer bears the sin of adultery for multiple marriages.   Christ's admonishment is "go and sin no more".    Someone else's sin is not my responsibility.  I don't care as long as I am not required to celebrate their sin with them, I'm good.


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## g5000 (Sep 18, 2017)

Tipsycatlover said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> > Tipsycatlover said:
> ...


So you want anyone who desires a marriage license and has been married before to certify they are born again and will sin no more before they are allowed to get a second or third or fourth or fifth or sixth...marriage license.


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## g5000 (Sep 18, 2017)

Don't get the wrong impression about my previous posts showing all those guys who cheated and committed adultery.

I know gays commit adultery, too.  Here's a homosexual who cheated on his wife right here:


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## g5000 (Sep 18, 2017)

Rush Limbaugh with his first wife:









Rush Limbaugh with his second wife:








Rush Limbaugh with his third wife:






Isn't that a charming photo?



Rush Limbaugh with his fourth wife:


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## g5000 (Sep 18, 2017)




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## g5000 (Sep 18, 2017)

Now try to explain to me that fags are ruining the institution of marriage and heterosexuals have bible-compliant marriages without coming off as a fucking raging hypocrite!


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## EvilCat Breath (Sep 18, 2017)

g5000 said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> > Whether or not homosexuality is a sin is none of my business.  People are free to sin or not sin as they believe.  When it becomes my business is when their particular sin becomes so popular that it requires my participation.   Then it's my business.
> ...



Two lesbians attempted to force me into painting their wedding portraits.  That was my business.  They failed.  Better luck next time.   Is that what gay weddings are?  A huge orgy of gay sex?    That is a new one.  I had not heard that before.  Stop trying to drag unwilling participants into your perverted lives.


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## g5000 (Sep 18, 2017)

Tipsycatlover said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> > Tipsycatlover said:
> ...


You need to put STRAIGHTS ONLY signs around your business.  On the front door, on the bathrooms, on the water fountains.


So people know.



You should put that in your ads, too.




So people know.
.


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## Aletheia4u (Sep 18, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Aletheia4u said:
> 
> 
> > Syriusly said:
> ...


 Back in the days, Old women will sit on their porches looking at children that walks by. They will say, "The funny looking one is Clara 's child. And her daddy have given that baby to her".
 If you would of have watched the video. You would of have seen the part when one of the men stated about the young boys genetic development. But he was talking on the slide. Letting the other to know that the boy is from incest and which in the backwoods, which they have practiced it in those days. Like there was a joke back in the days, about being from Arkansas, which that is Hillbillies territories.


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## Aletheia4u (Sep 18, 2017)

g5000 said:


> Rush Limbaugh with his first wife:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I wonder how he does it? Able to get young nice looking women at his age. It might be the expensive cologne that he sprays on himself.


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## Bonzi (Sep 18, 2017)

g5000 said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think?
> ...


I do. Why do you think it doesn't?


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## Bonzi (Sep 18, 2017)

All sin is unacceptable in God's sight.
Remarriage is only acceptable in the case of adultery biblically, if you choose to live by biblical principles

You can choose to live be legal laws

Or just go rogue, anything goes


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## Picaro (Sep 18, 2017)

It's most certainly wrong to treat homosexual fetishists as 'normal'; it's a mental illness, and not a healthy one at all. You don't get public health agency warnings like these sent to Rotarian conventions or church picnics.

Hepatitis A outbreak among gay men sparks health warning

They aren't some 'oppressed minority, just like black people n stuff!', they're a public health menace and a threat to children as well.


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## Picaro (Sep 18, 2017)

g5000 said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> > g5000 said:
> ...



Actually businesses that cater to homosexuals need to do that, so people and their children can stay away and not expose themselves to who knows what epidemic is raging through the homosexual 'community' at the moment.


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## mudwhistle (Sep 18, 2017)

Votto said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> > Being gay is fine. I mean, really, who cares? It doesnt effect anyone except for that person and who he/she chooses to be with
> ...


Gays are about dangerous as big sodas and plastic bags.


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## Syriusly (Sep 18, 2017)

Picaro said:


> It's most certainly wrong to treat homosexual fetishists as 'normal'; it's a mental illness, and not a healthy one at all. You don't get public health agency warnings like these sent to Rotarian conventions or church picnics.
> 
> Hepatitis A outbreak among gay men sparks health warning
> 
> They aren't some 'oppressed minority, just like black people n stuff!', they're a public health menace and a threat to children as well.



That is what the bigots keep telling us. 

You know- just like people like you used to say about Jews and Blacks. 

Yeah- people like you used to lynch blacks because of their 'threat to white women'.

People just like you.


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## Syriusly (Sep 18, 2017)

Tipsycatlover said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> > Tipsycatlover said:
> ...



Someone remarrying according to the Bible is adultery- and adultery is every bit as much of a sin- and a perversion- as male homosexuality in the Bible- except of course Jesus specifically condemns divorce and remarriage- and not Bob and Barry marrying.

Bob and Barry in a marriage are exactly the same sinners, bibically, as Donald and Melania. 

And I agree- none of it is our business. 

And if your state doesn't have provisions that require business's to serve people regardless of their sexual preference, then it legally doesn't matter either. But you do still have to serve Christians, and Muslims and Jews.


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## EvilCat Breath (Sep 18, 2017)

Anyone walking into a business gets the same service.  Gays can buy as many cookies as straights can buy cupcakes.  When a special service is involved,  the vendor should be able to deny Adam and Steve as well as Donald and Melania.


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## Syriusly (Sep 18, 2017)

Tipsycatlover said:


> Anyone walking into a business gets the same service.  Gays can buy as many cookies as straights can buy cupcakes.  When a special service is involved,  the vendor should be able to deny Adam and Steve as well as Donald and Melania.



Well certainly everyone who walks into a business should get the same service. 

But legally, business's are only obligated to provide the same service to people because of their race, religion, gender, country of orgin- and in a few localities- sexual orientation, veteran status, weight, height and a few other things. 

So be careful not to refuse service to a Jew, just because you don't approve of Jews marrying.


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## xyz (Sep 18, 2017)

I don't think it's "wrong" to think homosexuality is a sin, but if you do, don't go commit homosexual acts yourself instead of pushing your beliefs on others.


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## g5000 (Sep 18, 2017)

Tipsycatlover said:


> Anyone walking into a business gets the same service.


When that "service" was government recognition, gays did NOT receive the same.  Because they weren't biblically compliant.

So why should adulterers?


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 18, 2017)

Aletheia4u said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Aletheia4u said:
> ...


And if they picked out children of incest due to their looks, they were almost always wrong. You were 100% incorrect when you said, "they had ways". No, they didn't.


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## g5000 (Sep 18, 2017)

Picaro said:


> It's most certainly wrong to treat homosexual fetishists as 'normal'; it's a mental illness, and not a healthy one at all. You don't get public health agency warnings like these sent to Rotarian conventions or church picnics.
> 
> Hepatitis A outbreak among gay men sparks health warning
> 
> They aren't some 'oppressed minority, just like black people n stuff!', they're a public health menace and a threat to children as well.


Syphilis and gonorrhea killed millions of heterosexuals for centuries.  And god only knows how many kids heteros have molested.

Hell, there are almost half a billion new cases of STDs every year.

So I guess heteros are a public health menace, too.

Here's a photo of a fake nose worn by a female victim of syphilis in the 19th century:


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## Picaro (Sep 18, 2017)

g5000 said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> > It's most certainly wrong to treat homosexual fetishists as 'normal'; it's a mental illness, and not a healthy one at all. You don't get public health agency warnings like these sent to Rotarian conventions or church picnics.
> ...



Yes, it sucks that people can still find out that homosexuals are almost single-handedly keeping syphilis and other diseases alive, are major spreaders of epidemics of all kinds, and rape kids at far higher percentages than heterosexual pedoes do. Your silly attempts at 'well uh uh straights do it too!!!' as if that makes it all okay for homos to do whatever it is they do fails yet again, as does your fellow pedo-friendly poster Syriously constantly fails to rebut.

The govt. should at least tattoo their foreheads or something so the public can have the choice of whether or not to get within 20 feet of them, especially if they have children they want to protect. This should especially be applied for homosexuals working in food service or medical fields, and businesses should also be required to post notices if they hire criminal illegal aliens as well; thanks to mindless lack of enforcement of criminal illegal immigration we're seeing revivals of diseases we eliminated decades ago making revivals.


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## Aletheia4u (Sep 18, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Aletheia4u said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


 Back then. Anyone who come out being deformed. That they blamed it on incest. because back then, almost the majority were practicing it. Especially in Arkansas.



“He was abused. When a mother does what she does, it affects you forever,’’ Franks recalled in her new book that Hillary said
According to Franks, she didn’t specify the type of abuse Bill allegedly endured, but she did blame that abuse for his infidelities. Hillary Clinton Blames Bill’s Mom for His Sex Addiction


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## g5000 (Sep 18, 2017)

Picaro said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> > Picaro said:
> ...


You don't do your cause or your integrity any good by lying, dolt.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 18, 2017)

Picaro said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> > Picaro said:
> ...


"Yes, it sucks that people can still find out that homosexuals are almost single-handedly keeping syphilis and other diseases alive"

Okay, you're nuts. DO tell what insane blog you are parroting.


----------



## Bonzi (Sep 19, 2017)

If you have a job that requires you to follow the law, you need to
You can refuse, but you will face consequences.  Simple.  No argument.

You can admire her for standing up for her beliefs, but in the law of the land, she was wrong and should have done her job.  If she didn't like her job and the changes it entailed, she should have resigned.


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## Syriusly (Sep 19, 2017)

Picaro said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> > Picaro said:
> ...



Yeah there was a government that did something like that- not surprised that you have similar plans for our government


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## Syriusly (Sep 19, 2017)

Aletheia4u said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Aletheia4u said:
> ...



So among other thing- you are a bigot towards people from Arkansas- and enjoy lying.


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## danielpalos (Sep 19, 2017)

I believe women should be able to bear true witness to guys and claim women should be able to fornicate us into relationships, simply for the sake of heterosexuality in modern times.


----------



## Aletheia4u (Sep 22, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Aletheia4u said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


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## danielpalos (Sep 22, 2017)

I agree to be, non-judgemental toward any lesbian couples who want a boyfriend.


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## Taz (Sep 23, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> I agree to be, non-judgemental toward any lesbian couples who want a boyfriend.


They're going to want to stick a strap-on rubber cock up your ass.


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## danielpalos (Sep 23, 2017)

Taz said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > I agree to be, non-judgemental toward any lesbian couples who want a boyfriend.
> ...


They may have to get me really drunk and proclaim their true love for me, first.


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## cnm (Sep 23, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> The proper Christian view on homosexuality is like any other sin.


Where does Christ define it as a sin? Or are you taking the Jewish view?


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## danielpalos (Sep 23, 2017)

cnm said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > The proper Christian view on homosexuality is like any other sin.
> ...


It is the bigotry view.  It should be about safer sex, whenever possible.


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## Bonzi (Sep 23, 2017)

cnm said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > The proper Christian view on homosexuality is like any other sin.
> ...


Naw, talking Christian, but Jewish view too if you'd like


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## cnm (Sep 23, 2017)

Bonzi said:


> Naw, talking Christian


So where does Christ talk about homosexuality?


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## danielpalos (Sep 23, 2017)

Is it wrong to ask cam chics who give me free access to their website, if I can pretend to be their boyfriend, and practice not being the jealous type?


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Sep 23, 2017)

cnm said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > The proper Christian view on homosexuality is like any other sin.
> ...


‘Christ’ doesn’t.

The wrongheaded notion of homosexuality being a ‘sin’ is the contrivance of fearful, bigoted, hateful Christians – having nothing to do with sanctioned Christian doctrine and dogma.

We know this to be a fact because there are Christian churches which have members who are gay, where members of the clergy are gay, and where gay marriages are performed and acknowledged.


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## danielpalos (Sep 23, 2017)

I watch porn in modern times to practice tolerance and not judging modern women in modern times, by the clothes they don't wear.


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## Aletheia4u (Sep 23, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Aletheia4u said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


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## Picaro (Sep 24, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Okay, you're nuts. DO tell what insane blog you are parroting.



Those zany cranks at the CDC, moron.


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## Picaro (Sep 24, 2017)

cnm said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > The proper Christian view on homosexuality is like any other sin.
> ...



the New Testament view *is* a Jewish view; it isn't a rejection of the OT, despite all the misinformation to the contrary.


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## Picaro (Sep 24, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> cnm said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...



Yes, mentally ill sex fetishists are all about being reasonable and practicing safer sex ... lol that's hilarious. After all these years of constant education homosexuals obviously remain the dumbest and least informed demographic in the U.S., going by their disease rates and how rapidly epidemics sweep through their 'community'.


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## Picaro (Sep 24, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> Yeah there was a government that did something like that- not surprised that you have similar plans for our government



hahaha, Sparky here just posted what atheist govts. did to homos and others.... Probably ignorance and being a fashion victim makes her so confused and stupid, or just a lack of education beyond third grade.


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## Picaro (Sep 24, 2017)

g5000 said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> > g5000 said:
> ...



I don't have a 'cause',  countering rubbish and  garbage isn't a 'cause', unlike peddling nonsense about homosexuality being 'safe' and 'normal', when it is in fact not even close to either. You and the  other NAMBLA fans will just have to get used to the fact your propaganda just doesn't work on everybody. And, nobody cares about your opinions on 'integrity'; you would have to have some yourself for that to matter to anybody.


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## danielpalos (Sep 24, 2017)

Picaro said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > cnm said:
> ...


I believe the abomination of hypocrisy is a worse sin, than simple homosexuality.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 24, 2017)

Picaro said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, you're nuts. DO tell what insane blog you are parroting.
> ...


That's a shameless lie.  The people at the CDC, given that they actually have education and class, would condemn your stupid remarks.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 24, 2017)

Picaro said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> > Picaro said:
> ...


"I don't have a 'cause'"

Of course you do.  You are a closet homosexual, and this is how you cope.


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## danielpalos (Sep 24, 2017)

I agree to practice "zone defense" and try to not judge homosexual women who want a boyfriend.


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## Picaro (Sep 24, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...



ah yes, the standard childish retort from the 'I'm rubber you're glue!' schoolyard repertoire; and you think you're not mentally ill ... lol. And as for the CDC data, you haven't read it so your sniveling is just more dishonesty and lying. Go hit a bathhouse and re-charge your Herpes habit.


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## Picaro (Sep 24, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...



What hypocrisy would that be, not sucking up to the fashion victims who buy the baseless rubbish re homosexuals and their mental illness, just because Jerry Falwell said some stuff and the PC Nazis will wag their fingers and make scary faces at people who don't?


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 24, 2017)

Picaro said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Picaro said:
> ...


 I think we can all be 100% certain that the educated people at the CDC -- and anywhere, really -- would point at your remarks as a misrepresentation and an utter lie, crafted to self-affirm your own stupid bigotry.  yes, you are a delusional bigot with a dangerous neurosis.  No,there are not facts to back up your vile little fantasies.  No, your crybabying has no bearing on any of this.


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## danielpalos (Sep 24, 2017)

Is it wrong to ask women to help us with manual penis enhancement, trust issues, and yoga at the same, simply Because, nice girl friends do in modern times?


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## Picaro (Sep 24, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...



Rubbish.

*
Discussion
After being on the verge of elimination in 2000 in the United States, syphilis cases have rebounded. Rates of primary and secondary syphilis continued to increase overall during 2005–2013; although rates stabilized during 2009–2010, rates have increased since 2011. Increases have occurred primarily among men, and particularly among MSM, who contributed the vast majority of male primary and secondary syphilis cases during 2009–2012.

The epidemiology of syphilis among men, including MSM, has shifted since 2009, with larger increases occurring among Hispanic and white men. Despite this increase, disparities in primary and secondary syphilis between black men and other racial/ethnic groups remain large. Many barriers to contacting and treating sex partners exist, including delays in reporting cases to the health department, anonymous partners, physicians who rely on patients to notify their partners (2), and the observed tendency of MSM to notify a smaller proportion of their sex partners than do heterosexuals (3).

These analyses indicate that syphilis prevention measures for MSM of all races/ethnicities need to be strengthened throughout the United States. This could be accomplished by working with private health-care providers because a substantial number of primary and secondary syphilis cases among MSM are reported by private physicians (1). Further, both private and public providers should be aware of the resurgence in syphilis and should be able to recognize the signs and symptoms of syphilis, conduct risk assessments, and screen all sexually active MSM for syphilis at least annually with syphilis serologic tests with confirmatory testing where indicated (4). More frequent screening (i.e., at 3–6 month intervals) is recommended for MSM who have multiple or anonymous sex partners. Disclosure of sexual practices remains difficult for some MSM (5); therefore, providers are encouraged to elicit sexual histories of their patients in a culturally appropriate manner, including recognition of sexual orientation, gender identity, and the sex of patients' sex partners. Additional resources and training for accomplishing this are available online.†

The increase in syphilis among MSM is a major public health concern, particularly because syphilis and the behaviors associated with acquiring it increase the likelihood of acquiring and transmitting human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) (6). There are reported rates of 50%–70% HIV coinfection among MSM infected with primary and secondary syphilis (7) and high HIV seroconversion rates following primary and secondary syphilis infection (8). The resurgence of syphilis, coupled with its strong link with HIV, underscores the need for programs and providers to 1) urge safer sexual practices (e.g., reduce the number of sex partners, use latex condoms, and have a long-term mutually monogamous relationship with a partner who has negative test results for sexually transmitted diseases); 2) promote syphilis awareness and screening as well as appropriate screening for gonorrhea, chlamydia, and HIV infection; and 3) notify and treat sex partners.
*

Primary and Secondary Syphilis — United States, 2005–2013

Now, you and the other deviants can start holding hysterical pogroms against the CDC for daring to report such un-PC facts about your mentally ill pet demographics.


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## danielpalos (Sep 24, 2017)

Safe sex whenever possible!  

Free extra thick condoms that may have ridges on them, for men willing to wear them.


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## Picaro (Sep 24, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> Safe sex whenever possible!
> 
> Free extra thick condoms that may have ridges on them, for men willing to wear them.



Yes, well it's been over30 years since the AIDS epidemic broke out among these neurotic fetishists, and it's clear they aren't the least interested in your advice after some 4 decades of whining about their own epidemics and demanding all kinds of attention for their self-inflicted problems, so I would say locking them up is what is left.


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## danielpalos (Sep 25, 2017)

Picaro said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > Safe sex whenever possible!
> ...


what about practitioners of the abomination of hypocrisy?  they tend to give us the most problems for free.  they should be "charged for it".


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 25, 2017)

Picaro said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Picaro said:
> ...


That doesn't say what you claimed, ya liar.  In fact, it says the exact opposite: "During 2005–2013, primary and secondary syphilis rates increased among men of all ages and races/ethnicities across all regions of the United States. "


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## Picaro (Sep 25, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...



It say what I said it says, liar, and lying about here when there is a direct link to it is typical of the brain dead muppet followers like yourself. Or is it you can only read one line a week or you migraines or something?


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 25, 2017)

Picaro said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Picaro said:
> ...





Picaro said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Picaro said:
> ...





Picaro said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Picaro said:
> ...


The lonk not only does not prove your claim, it disproves it. You are a lying delusional bigot.


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## sealybobo (Apr 8, 2018)

Dalia said:


> Did God creat Adam and Eve ? or did he create Adam and Adam ? or Eve and Eve ?


In genesis it says Adam and Eve had three sons. Think about that. Take all the time you need


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## Dalia (Apr 8, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Dalia said:
> 
> 
> > Did God creat Adam and Eve ? or did he create Adam and Adam ? or Eve and Eve ?
> ...


Wow, you just love old thread it is your cup of tea.


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## Taz (Apr 8, 2018)

God kicked Adam and Eve out of Eden for having hetero sex. Sounds pretty gay to me.


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## sealybobo (Apr 9, 2018)

Dalia said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Dalia said:
> ...


Do you really think I should have started a new thread or was it wise to just find an old thread where people are already talking about them


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## Dalia (Apr 10, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Dalia said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


You can not deny that you like old threads? i notice it


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## bodecea (Apr 10, 2018)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?


Go right ahead...just can't make secular laws about it.


----------



## bodecea (Apr 10, 2018)

Rambunctious said:


> Loving another human being is normal and fine. It's what the heavens want most for us. But when sex enters the picture that is where the problem starts. The good book states sex after marriage between one man and one women in the eyes of God is the preferred way of life. Beyond that it's up to us all to choose our own path in life.
> The sin, the really big sin in my opinion is using homosexuality as a political club to divide the population...that is a real sin.


So....sex not between a married man and woman is a sin.....in your opinion.  Should secular laws reflect that?


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## Indeependent (Apr 10, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Dalia said:
> 
> 
> > Did God creat Adam and Eve ? or did he create Adam and Adam ? or Eve and Eve ?
> ...


And if you can read Hebrew it indicates that Cain, Abel and Seth were born with at least one twin.
Plus you’re an atheist.


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## sealybobo (Apr 10, 2018)

Dalia said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Dalia said:
> ...


I love old threads.  And if you notice I haven't started a new thread in a long time.  Why start a new thread on a subject there is most definitely a thread already started on it?


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## sealybobo (Apr 10, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Dalia said:
> ...



I already got my answer.  The answer is that Adam and Eve weren't really the first two.  It's an allegory.  Because then later in the story it says their sons went east of eden to find their wives.  

What made me post this?  I saw this on facebook "In genesis it says Adam and Eve had three sons. Think about that. Take all the time you need" and thought it was clever and wanted to post that thought here.  Do you really think I should have started a new thread on that comment when there are dozens of Adam and Eve threads already created?


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## Dalia (Apr 10, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


It's Adam and Eve, Why do you want to change everything about a man and a woman? the question is simple


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Apr 10, 2018)

Rambunctious said:


> The sin, the really big sin in my opinion is using homosexuality as a political club to divide the population...that is a real sin.


The sin,  the really big sin in my opinion is using religion as a political club to divide the population....that is the real sin.


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Apr 10, 2018)

in


Votto said:


> Gay men in the US account for under 10% of the population, yet they account for well over half off all AIDS and STD cases in the US. This is a fact supported by the CDC.


If you're going to toss around statistics, why don't you be honest and use all of the available data instead of just that which casts gays in a bad light. The fact is that that cases among white gay men is on the decline in recent years  HIV in the United States | Statistics Overview | Statistics Center | HIV/AIDS | CDC

Yes it is high and yes, historically gay men engaged in risky sex with multiple anonymous partners.  Now, why do you suppose that is. ? Could it be, that until recently gays were relegated to the shadows of society and could not openly engage in a relationship? Could it be because that could not introduce their partner to family and friends? Because they were demeaned and marginalized for being gay? Is it possible that the new found acceptance of gays people and same sex relationships is responsible for the current trend of fewer cases ? Is it possible that the ability to marry is resulting in more stable relationships and les promiscuity. Think for Christ sake!!


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Apr 10, 2018)

Votto said:


> However, even though the economic costs to society Dims will never see this as a reason to not encourage such behavior as "normal" and "good".



This is beyond ignorant. Do you really think that by marginalizing gays  and condemning homosexuality, by perpetuating institutional discrimination, that you are going to reduce the number of gay people? That people will just choose to not be gay? It is not a behavior. A behavior is being a bigoted asshole. Being gay is the essence of who some people are, and just like with straight people - being gay is not just about sex and sexual BEHAVIOR.


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Apr 10, 2018)

Votto said:


> Meanwhile, they will ban soda drinks in New York cuz they are not healthy and seaways in San Fran cuz they want people to exercise so they will be healthier.
> 
> It's all part of the Dim brain rot.


Meanwhile, you dimwits blather about the costs of treating aids and blaming gays for it , while you blather and bloviate against the nanny state for trying to cut down on health care costs and the human misery that goes with it, while AT THE SAME TIME trying to take health care away from millions which will only cost us much more in the long run. Talk about brain rot!! Geeeezzzz


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## Meriweather (Apr 10, 2018)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> The sin,  the really big sin in my opinion is using religion as a political club to divide the population....that is the real sin.


Perhaps a greater catastrophe is for the political club to be used against religion so that the population will not have any allegiance to Church, only to the government, and be made to fall in line with whatever a current government mandates.


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## sealybobo (Apr 10, 2018)

Dalia said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


What are you talking about?


----------



## Rambunctious (Apr 10, 2018)

bodecea said:


> So....sex not between a married man and woman is a sin.....in your opinion. *Should secular laws reflect that?*


No not in a secular nation...we have the right to choose whether to follow the word of God or not...But I won't wait for thow at the gate while you explain yourself....lol


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Apr 10, 2018)

Meriweather said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > The sin,  the really big sin in my opinion is using religion as a political club to divide the population....that is the real sin.
> ...


No one is using a club against religion. That is just the paranoid, delusional bastardized use of religious freedom speaking. We do not want to interfere with your allegiance to the church. That is just more paranoid, victim mentality hype. We want the church to stay out of  civil affairs and secular law. Religion does not have to " fall in line with what government mandates" It does, however, have to recognize the fact that we are a secular constitutional republic and that te constitution takes precedent over the bible.


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## sealybobo (Apr 10, 2018)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Rambunctious said:
> 
> 
> > The sin, the really big sin in my opinion is using homosexuality as a political club to divide the population...that is a real sin.
> ...


Everyone should have a gay relative. Then they’d stop being so ignorant like Laura Ingram who saw the light after her gay brother died of aids.

Want to hear evil? When she was in college she outed a bunch of gay students. She actually published the names of the people who attended and sent letters to their parents.

Suck all the dicks you want you’re still not as evil as she is


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## tycho1572 (Apr 10, 2018)

For a religious person? No

Do I think homosexuality is the symptom of a  mental illnesses we don’t understand? Absolutely!


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## Meriweather (Apr 10, 2018)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> No one is using a club against religion. That is just the paranoid, delusional bastardized use of religious freedom speaking. We do not want to interfere with your allegiance to the church. That is just more paranoid, victim mentality hype. We want the church to stay out of  civil affairs and secular law. Religion does not have to " fall in line with what government mandates" It does, however, have to recognize the fact that we are a secular constitutional republic and that te constitution takes precedent over the bible.



And we do--or, at least the greatest majority of us.  We also recognize that we are free to practice our faith in public, in the marketplace, etc.  Homosexuality can be named a sin without it being considered unlawful.  Adultery is considered a sin, but it is not unlawful, either.  

By the way, we should be able to have a conversation without the hysterical, _*"That is just more paranoid, victim mentality hype. We want the church to stay out of  civil affairs and secular law" *_judgements always thrown our way.  We are neither paranoid, victims, nor interfere with secular law unless said law is a breach of the Second Amendment.  Labeling us as such does not help you or your case.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 10, 2018)

Meriweather said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > The sin,  the really big sin in my opinion is using religion as a political club to divide the population....that is the real sin.
> ...


Well that certainly is a whiny, verbose way of complainingabout secular government...which happens to be one of mankind's greatest acheivements....


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## Meriweather (Apr 10, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Meriweather said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...



My apologies.  I didn't realize a one sentence (forty-two word) response is now considered verbose.  I suppose I have Twitter to thank for that.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 10, 2018)

Meriweather said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Meriweather said:
> ...


It absolutely was verbose, because "seculah gubmint don't contain mah baby jaysus" is the equivalent and much, much shorter....


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Apr 10, 2018)

Meriweather said:


> And we do--or, at least the greatest majority of us. We also recognize that we are free to practice our faith in public, in the marketplace, etc. Homosexuality can be named a sin without it being considered unlawful. Adultery is considered a sin, but it is not unlawful, either.


You respect secular law? That's good to know , although, from the  zeal with which the religious right peruses it's agenda, it's hard to believe that it is "most of us" You can consider want a sin " No one is depriving you of that and you are in fact free to practice your faith where ever you wish, as long as you understand that  freedom from religion is the other side of that same coin that grants you freedom of religion.


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## TheProgressivePatriot (Apr 10, 2018)

Meriweather said:


> By the way, we should be able to have a conversation without the hysterical, _*"That is just more paranoid, victim mentality hype. We want the church to stay out of civil affairs and secular law" *_judgements always thrown our way. We are neither paranoid, victims, nor interfere with secular law unless said law is a breach of the Second Amendment. Labeling us as such does not help you or your case.


  Your words



> _Perhaps a greater catastrophe is for the political club to be used against religion so that the population will not have any allegiance to Church, only to the government, and be made to fall in line with whatever a current government mandates._



THAT is in fact hysteria. 

The second amendment? Are you on the right thread here?


----------



## Indeependent (Apr 10, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


Yawn...wrong.
“Allegory” is for the simple minded.


----------



## Meriweather (Apr 10, 2018)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> You respect secular law? That's good to know , although, from the  zeal with which the religious right peruses it's agenda, it's hard to believe that it is "most of us" You can consider want a sin " No one is depriving you of that and you are in fact free to practice your faith where ever you wish, as long as you understand that  freedom from religion is the other side of that same coin that grants you freedom of religion.



No, the Constitution makes no guarantee of Freedom From Religion.  Quite the opposite.  It states all religions (not no religion) are welcome.  This means I should be seeing many religions in the public square, not one or even a few.   Every religion should be seen.  

Keep in mind, the majority is often silent.  Perhaps that is why the fringe seems so loud--they are shouting into the silence.


----------



## Meriweather (Apr 10, 2018)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> THAT is in fact hysteria.


No, it's not.  It's paraphrasing a rather well-known quote, dating back decades.  



TheProgressivePatriot said:


> The second amendment? Are you on the right thread here?



Right thread, wrong Amendment.  What I get for reading about Second Amendment issues between responding to posts.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 10, 2018)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Meriweather said:
> 
> 
> > And we do--or, at least the greatest majority of us. We also recognize that we are free to practice our faith in public, in the marketplace, etc. Homosexuality can be named a sin without it being considered unlawful. Adultery is considered a sin, but it is not unlawful, either.
> ...


No such thing as "freedom from religion".


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 10, 2018)

BS Filter said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Meriweather said:
> ...


Of course there is...we are guaranteed freedom from state-sponsored religion. Oh wait, maybe you don't live in the United States...I should not assume...


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## GreenBean (Apr 10, 2018)

BS Filter said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Meriweather said:
> ...




I believe the phrase they're looking for is Freedom *OF* Religion .... if they choose to be free FROM rleigion that is their choice - but not imposable on other members of the community via legislation or any other form of governmental controls


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## Lysistrata (Apr 10, 2018)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?


You have a right to voice this opinion. You don't have right to think that anyone else cares about your opinion. You don't have any right to make your opinion into law.


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## BS Filter (Apr 10, 2018)

GreenBean said:


> BS Filter said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...


But that's exactly what they want, no religious practices.  Nothing public.


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## Dalia (Apr 11, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Dalia said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


----------



## Lysistrata (Apr 11, 2018)

BS Filter said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> > BS Filter said:
> ...


What one does in public is subject to public comment, even ridicule. LGBTs are just people out and about in society, regardless of their choice of religion (or none). They have a right to not be bothered by your  choice of religious practice. And what if they have chosen another form of religious practice than yours? There are many LGBT folks who are members of the Metropolitan Community Church, founded to provide a church home for LGBT Christians.


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## BS Filter (Apr 11, 2018)

Lysistrata said:


> BS Filter said:
> 
> 
> > GreenBean said:
> ...


The MCC is a wolf in sheep's clothing.  The Church of Jesus Christ believes in the authority of Scripture.


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## Lysistrata (Apr 11, 2018)

BS Filter said:


> Lysistrata said:
> 
> 
> > BS Filter said:
> ...



The MCC is just as much a church as your's is, snob. Bet your's believes in biblical "inerrancy" and "infallibility," which basically is post-Reformation protestant fundie stuff. Believe what you wish, but don't get in anyone else's way or stick your nose in anyone else's business.


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## BS Filter (Apr 11, 2018)

Lysistrata said:


> BS Filter said:
> 
> 
> > Lysistrata said:
> ...


I'll speak my mind here as I wish.  The Church of Jesus Christ believes the Bible to be the authoritative and inerrant Word of God.  There will always be wolves in sheep's clothing and tares among the wheat.  You go ahead and believe whatever you wish.  No skin off my nose.


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## GreenBean (Apr 11, 2018)

BS Filter said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
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> > BS Filter said:
> ...



Unless of course it's a minority religion such as Islam or Hare Krishna ....


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## BS Filter (Apr 11, 2018)

GreenBean said:


> BS Filter said:
> 
> 
> > GreenBean said:
> ...


Yes, "protected class".  The democrats know they aren't going to get the Bible believers, so they reach out to every freak and nut.


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## BULLDOG (Apr 11, 2018)

Votto said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> > Being gay is fine. I mean, really, who cares? It doesnt effect anyone except for that person and who he/she chooses to be with
> ...



Looks like you have your answer. If you are so afraid of those diseases, you should quit having gay sex.


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## Moonglow (Apr 11, 2018)

BS Filter said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> > BS Filter said:
> ...


There is no religious test in our govt.


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## hobelim (Apr 11, 2018)

Moonglow said:


> BS Filter said:
> 
> 
> > GreenBean said:
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There should be a test for sanity or at the very least literacy....


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## BS Filter (Apr 11, 2018)

Moonglow said:


> BS Filter said:
> 
> 
> > GreenBean said:
> ...


Oh, but there is.  The left will slander and demonize every bible believer they see that seeks an appointed office.  You know that.


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## BULLDOG (Apr 11, 2018)

BS Filter said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > BS Filter said:
> ...



It's not slander if they really did it.


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## hobelim (Apr 11, 2018)

BS Filter said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > BS Filter said:
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Thats not a religious test thats what happens when a person comes out and claims that they are a devout hypocrite to curry favor with people who do not think very deeply in order to get elected to positions of authority where they can legislate their perverse views of the world.


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## BS Filter (Apr 11, 2018)

BULLDOG said:


> BS Filter said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...


Did what?


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## BULLDOG (Apr 11, 2018)

BS Filter said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> > BS Filter said:
> ...


What ever you try to characterize as slander.


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## pismoe (Apr 11, 2018)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?


----------------------------------------   Sure , of course its OK to voice any opinion on homosexuality or anything else for awhile longer in the USA  Bonzi .   [answering the opening question]


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## Lysistrata (Apr 11, 2018)

BS Filter said:


> Lysistrata said:
> 
> 
> > BS Filter said:
> ...



Are you a Mormon? I don't really know what the Mormons believe.


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## BS Filter (Apr 11, 2018)

BULLDOG said:


> BS Filter said:
> 
> 
> > BULLDOG said:
> ...


Okay.  So why do democrats in congress slander and demonize bible believing Christians that are appointed to office?


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## BS Filter (Apr 11, 2018)

Lysistrata said:


> BS Filter said:
> 
> 
> > Lysistrata said:
> ...


No, I'm not a Mormon.  You're confused, dear.  The Church of Jesus Christ isn't an earthly organization.  The Church of Jesus Christ is comprised of everyone that believes the Bible and puts their faith in Jesus Christ, regardless of denomination.


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## BULLDOG (Apr 11, 2018)

BS Filter said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> > BS Filter said:
> ...



Example?


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## BS Filter (Apr 11, 2018)

BULLDOG said:


> BS Filter said:
> 
> 
> > BULLDOG said:
> ...


Sure.  Have you ever watched a congressional hearing for any appointment of a bible believing conservative?  Did you witness the hearing of Clarance Thomas?  How about Betsy Devoss?  How many examples do you need?  You know as well as I do that democrats put the screws to any bible believing Christian conservative.  This is the part where you play dumb, huh.  Here's a classic recent example.
'The Dogma Lives Loudly Within You': Senate Democrats Grill Appointee Over Catholic Faith


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## deanrd (Apr 11, 2018)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?


Being gay is OK.

It's divorce and adultery that are sins.


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## BULLDOG (Apr 11, 2018)

BS Filter said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> > BS Filter said:
> ...



Wow. You really picked Thomas and Devos to make your point? What an idiot.


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## frigidweirdo (Apr 11, 2018)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?



Well, it's okay to think it's a sin, but is it okay to then start treating sinners as second class citizens?

Trump is an adulterer. Yet they elected him. A sinner, not just a normal sinner, but a higher class sort of sinner. And they don't care.

But then when other sinners, maybe higher class sinners want wedding cakes, all of a sudden they have fucking principles which had gone missing for the whole of the election campaign.


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## BS Filter (Apr 11, 2018)

BULLDOG said:


> BS Filter said:
> 
> 
> > BULLDOG said:
> ...


If that's all you in response, then everyone can easily see which one of us is the idiot.


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## BS Filter (Apr 11, 2018)

frigidweirdo said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think?
> ...


You don't get it.  The Christian baker has a constitutional right to his religious views.  That's the point.


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## Lysistrata (Apr 11, 2018)

BS Filter said:


> Lysistrata said:
> 
> 
> > BS Filter said:
> ...



It's one thing to put one's faith in Jesus, but it's another to believe in a compendium of writings, many by unknown authors, that was put together years after Jesus left, does not include all writings on the subject, some of which may still lie out there in the desert, and is subject to interpretation by anybody and everybody. Believing literally in the protestant version of the bible is not a condition of Christianity, even if it is a condition of entry into your denomination.

Incidentally, the MCC is a Christian denomination. I'm not a member of the MCC. I'm not even LGBT. But I do know that MCC members don't need your permission in order to believe as they wish.


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## TheParser (Apr 11, 2018)

*IMHO:*

1. NO, it is NOT wrong if you want to believe that homosexuality is a sin.

a. It is your right to believe what you want.

2. BUT it is wrong to use your personal beliefs in order to harm gay people.

a. For example, not too many years ago, some police departments would try to get gay people kicked out of their apartments. Presumably, those officers felt that homosexuality was a sin and that those tenants  should be punished for their behavior.

3. IMHO, however,  you DO have the right to legally and peacefully try to affect public policy.

a. For example,  until recently, homosexuality was a crime, for enough people thought that it was a sin. Fortunately (IMHO), the Supreme Court listened to people who felt that it was wrong to smoke out gay men and throw them into jail. So the "Supremes"  decided that what people did in their bedrooms was no one else's business.

b. Personally, I do NOT believe that homosexuality is a so-called "sin," but I DO believe that people have a right to make sure that they are not impacted by the actions of gay men. That is to say,  for example, I feel strongly that gay men should NOT donate blood, lest one accidentally pass on HIV. I am disappointed that the Red Cross is now allowing gay men to donate blood IF they swear that they have not had intimate relations for a certain period of time. I am hoping that health professionals have a screening process that detects HIV-tainted blood.


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## BS Filter (Apr 11, 2018)

Lysistrata said:


> BS Filter said:
> 
> 
> > Lysistrata said:
> ...


Yes, you continually repeat that the bible is written years after Jesus and unknown authors, etc, etc.  The Christian believes the Bible is the authoritative inerrant Word of God.  You're not a Christian and I understand where you're coming from.


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## BS Filter (Apr 11, 2018)

TheParser said:


> *IMHO:*
> 
> 1. NO, it is NOT wrong if you want to believe that homosexuality is a sin.
> 
> ...


There is no harm in refusing to decorate a cake that violates a baker's religious beliefs.  The queer can get someone else to do it.  No harm.  The one that would be harmed is the baker for being FORCED to violate their religious beliefs.


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## Taz (Apr 11, 2018)

BS Filter said:


> TheParser said:
> 
> 
> > *IMHO:*
> ...


Jesus would not have refused to make a gay cake. You're just a fake Christian.


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## featherlite (Apr 12, 2018)

deanrd said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think?
> ...



Actually sin is sin. Divorce & adultery "came out" as acceptable years ago. Abusive marriages or, for those who only saw women as extensions of men... divorce is a good thing. 
There are always many downsides to normalizing needful behaviors. (ie. adultery)


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## featherlite (Apr 12, 2018)

BS Filter said:


> TheParser said:
> 
> 
> > *IMHO:*
> ...





Im sure people come in daily to order cakes that violate that bakers beliefs. He/she is doing business...not participating in anything.

What if someone wanted a cake for a communion or baptism celebration and the baker didnt like serving Christians. We could go elsewhere but most of us would be offended... wouldnt you?


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## BS Filter (Apr 12, 2018)

featherlite said:


> BS Filter said:
> 
> 
> > TheParser said:
> ...


The only time I needed to tell the baker what the cake was for was my wife's 60th birthday.  She is a huge fan of the Rock and I wanted his picture on the cake.  It was in their book of cake decorations.  There is no need to tell the baker what the cake is going to be used for unless you're looking to offend someone and test a new anti-discrimination law, which is why we are seeing this rash of lawsuits by the queer mafia lately.


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## featherlite (Apr 12, 2018)

BS Filter said:


> featherlite said:
> 
> 
> > BS Filter said:
> ...



What if they wrote on the cake order form to place 2 grooms on top and were fine with being  charged for breaking into another little plastic bride and groom toppers. 

but yes I agree  its bs if someone is obnoxiously trying to test a business for discrimination


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## BS Filter (Apr 12, 2018)

featherlite said:


> BS Filter said:
> 
> 
> > featherlite said:
> ...


It should be up to the baker.  It's not right to force someone to violate their religious beliefs.  Notice the queer mafia only attacks Christian businesses, never muslims.  Muslims treat queers much worse than Christians, but muslims are also a protected class by the left so they leave them alone.  Christians are the target.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 12, 2018)

GreenBean said:


> BS Filter said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...


Of course, you are 100% wrong, and freedom FROM  state-sponsored religion absolutely is imposed on everyone, and thank goodness for that....


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 12, 2018)

BS Filter said:


> The Church of Jesus Christ isn't an earthly organization.


Hahaha...oh man, hilarious...

Really, shaman? Is it a magical cloud church in the sky? 

It's an earthly organization madeup by humans, based on bronze age fairy tales.


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## ding (Apr 12, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> BS Filter said:
> 
> 
> > The Church of Jesus Christ isn't an earthly organization.
> ...


Actually belief in God has been the dominant belief since the beginning of man.


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## MaryL (Apr 12, 2018)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?


I am offended that people want to define the legitimacy of homosexuality by excusing it as victim of  past wrongs...No. Homosexuality is a just broken human sexuality, it doesn't need  to be excused. Or explained. Freud said,  sometimes a cigar is a cigar. Like THAT.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 12, 2018)

MaryL said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think?
> ...


It's "legitimate", because it is just not very important and is a natural occurrence, and the fact that homosexuals are still people harming nobody means we also excuse it.


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## MaryL (Apr 12, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


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## GreenBean (Apr 12, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> > BS Filter said:
> ...



You're a buffoon - stfu


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## GreenBean (Apr 12, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> still people harming nobody



If only that were truly the case we could ride unicorns off into the sunset while farting rainbows ......


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 12, 2018)

GreenBean said:


> You're a buffoon - stfu


That's nice.  get it all out of your system.

Nevertheless, it's true that we are all guaranteed, by law, the freedom from any state-sponsored religion and from laws respecting religion. Cry all night, cry tomorrow too, it's a fact.


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## MaryL (Apr 12, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


Homosexuals are a such a tiny tinsy  dysfunctional slice of humanity  they can afford lawyers instead of kids. They want KIDS to legitimize their cause? Well, beware of what you ask for...


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 12, 2018)

GreenBean said:


> If only that were truly the case


It is the case.  Homophobic, religious nutball fossils (know any?) are easily a bigger threat.  And even that threat is puny, so nothing to worry about on either end, really.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 12, 2018)

MaryL said:


> They want KIDS to legitimize their cause?


No, they want kids for the same reason anyone wants kids.  As anyone could puzzle out. what is wrong with your brain?  You have a real  and clear intellectual deficit, when it comes to this topic.  I think I will leave you to it, you freak.


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## GreenBean (Apr 12, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> > If only that were truly the case
> ...


Religous zealots, other than Islamics are marginalized and of  minimal threat. Queers, Faggots, Dikes, Assorted Cum guzzlers and muff divers are a threat to the morality of future generations - and yes - despite what simpletons such as yourself do believe morality does exist outside the scope of rligion.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 12, 2018)

GreenBean said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > GreenBean said:
> ...


They are no threat to anyone's morality , save for people with fucked up morality, like you. You fossils will die off without a bit of help from me, so ... rage on, bro.


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## GreenBean (Apr 12, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...



Don't Bro me if you don't know me mofo .... fucking another man up his ass may be just dandy for sissies like you and your boyfriend, and you're entitled to your perversion ....  but when you faggots try and get into the schools and preach to kids that it is somehow noble to be a cum guzzzler or a turd burglar that's where the bullshits gotta stop


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## danielpalos (Apr 12, 2018)

Women are always welcome to insist i not be selfish.


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## danielpalos (Apr 16, 2018)

Any women want to be friends, simply to overcome the homosexuality issue; and just for fun?


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 16, 2018)

GreenBean said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > GreenBean said:
> ...


Nobody does that, you embarrassing, whiny little freak. And it has become increasingly clear that you are a self-loathing, closet homosexual. Save your hate for yourself, bro.

Your morality is backwards, and idiots like you are going extinct at a furious pace. I can only imagine your sorrow when, on your death bed, you realize you are gay, Jaysus is fake, and you should have come out decades ago


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## ding (Apr 16, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


You are sounding pretty hateful yourself, bro.  Does that mean you are a self-loathing, closet homosexual?


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## Taz (Apr 17, 2018)

GreenBean said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > GreenBean said:
> ...


So you don’t “muff dive”?


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## Taz (Apr 17, 2018)

ding said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > GreenBean said:
> ...


God made homos.


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## GreenBean (Apr 17, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


He also made AIDS, Syphlis,  Down Syndrome, Hitler, Lenin, Mao, and Liberals - does that make them good ?   Here's a quote from your God

* If your genitals have been damaged, stay out of church: "He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord."(Deuteronomy 23:1)*


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## GreenBean (Apr 17, 2018)

Taz said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...



Yes Penis Breath I most certainly have - but I'm a


Fort Fun Indiana said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...



Re: "Nobody does that, you embarrassing, whiny little freak."

Here's a quote from a popular fag publication ......."*Recruiting children? You bet we are ! *I would very much like for many of these young boys to grow up and start f**ing men. - Daniel Villarreal - Queerty.com"

*Teaching The art of Fist Fucking ...   http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/200...-olds-spit-vs-swallow-is-it-rude-audio-video/*

Anti Bullying Charade, Gay Classroom Infiltration, 

Kevin Jennings, masterminded a scheme of gay infiltration into the classroom using "tolerance" and anti-bullying programs as a perfect path to classroom indoctrination,

In 1995 Jennings made a speech to a Gay Group in which he somewhat outlined the agendas strategy.

_'If the radical right can succeed in portraying us as preying on children, we will lose. Their language .... is laced with subtle and not-so-subtle innuendo that we are after their kids,'_- He then went on to propose a strategy of how they could get at our kids.

--  Gay Agenda in Public Schools


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## GreenBean (Apr 17, 2018)

ding said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > GreenBean said:
> ...



Classic example of Jamming - you're not very good at it Penis Breath are you - lmao


The objective of jamming is to force opponents into silence by accusations of Racism, Islamophobia, homophobia, latent homosexual tendencies, misogyny and so forth. The purpose being to create a social stigmatization of anyone whom opposes the Agenda - whatever aspect of Liberal pomposity is being being promoted at a given time. The command being to CONFORM to the will of Big Brother.

Any sign of opposition to the invading hoards of cheap labor, gang bangers and drug traffickers flowing across the Southern border - You're a Racist ! Any opposition to an influx of Moslem so-called 'refugees' many of whom are here to participate in Jihad many others who are here to take advantage of the opportunities made available to non-Americans at the expense of Americans and you are an Islamophobic Racist ! Gay propaganda will depict opponents as homophobic queer hating redneck bigots, as crude obnoxious loudmouths.

*Dude - you are way out of your fucking league* - *if you wanna pick a tiff with me first get someone with an IQ above room temperature. You can start Googling if you'd like but try to remember Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity that you seem to have in abundance.*


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## ding (Apr 18, 2018)

GreenBean said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


You mean like what Fort Fun did and you are doing now?

You are text book example of the dunning effect.


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## GreenBean (Apr 18, 2018)

ding said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...



I believe you are referring to the dunning kruger effect - nice try little fella. I don't claim to be a genuis but the Intelligence quoitent tests I have taken in the past have placed me in the ball park of 130 - which on the terman scale designates me as Very superior intelligence. A genuis rating would be over 140.  In your case I believe that if I were to climb your ego and jump down to your IQ I would most likely need a parachute to help break the fall.

Scientists say the universe is made up of Protons, Neutrons, and Electrons. They forgot to mention Morons such as yourself.


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## ding (Apr 18, 2018)

GreenBean said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > GreenBean said:
> ...


Keep reading, Einstein.  You only read the first part of it.  Or do you want me to explain it to you.


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## GreenBean (Apr 18, 2018)

ding said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...



Your entire post is 2 lines long - so WTF r u talking about ?


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## ding (Apr 18, 2018)

GreenBean said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > GreenBean said:
> ...


You over estimate your intelligence and under estimate the intelligence of others.  Now go and read up on the dunning kruger effect and see what that means. 

And then come back and let's discuss some quantum mechanics and how it relates to inflation theory.


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## GreenBean (Apr 19, 2018)

ding said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...



What a fkng cop out - you aren't even capable of holding an intelligent conversation, you have no clue as to what you're talking about.  Memorizing a few libtard talking points does not make for a debate, you aren't even worth my future efforts .  So far as dunning-kruger I studued that while working on my first Bachelors degree - you are heretofore on ignore - I enjoy bitch smacking libtards but you don't even warrant that .


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## ding (Apr 19, 2018)

GreenBean said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > GreenBean said:
> ...


Dunning Kruger states that people of lower intelligence over estimate their intelligence and under estimate the intelligence of others. Your behavior is a textbook example of that.


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## harmonica (Apr 19, 2018)

there is no such thing as sin
humans are humans....how can what they do be 'sinful'?


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## GreenBean (Apr 19, 2018)

harmonica said:


> there is no such thing as sin
> humans are humans....how can what they do be 'sinful'?




Sin is an antiquated religous concept used to define insults and abominations in the eye of the eye in the sky -  Basically it boils down to morals - and there are a number of moralistic trends that circumnavigate multiple branches of humanity - not libtards though  - they have no morals and are an abomination in of themselves.


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## ding (Apr 20, 2018)

GreenBean said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > there is no such thing as sin
> ...


Your blanket judging and disrespect of your fellow man proves your morals are lacking.  Do you believe other people are being moral when they disrespect you?


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## ding (Apr 20, 2018)

GreenBean said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > there is no such thing as sin
> ...


This is the respectful way to make your argument.  Unfortunately for you, you are aligned with the left when it comes to subordinating religion.  

Socialism intentionally denies examination because it is irrational. There is no formal defined dogma of socialism. Instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. Socialism seeks equality through uniformity and communal ownership. Socialism has an extraordinary ability to incite and inflame its adherents and inspire social movements. Socialists dismiss their defeats and ignore their incongruities. They desire big government and use big government to implement their morally relativistic social policies. Socialism is a religion. The religious nature of socialism explains their hostility towards traditional religions which is that of one rival religion over another. Their dogma is based on materialism, primitive instincts, atheism and the deification of man. They see no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. They practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural Marxism and normalization of deviance. They worship science but are the first to reject it when it suits their purposes. They can be identified by an external locus of control. Their religious doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and equality via uniformity and communal ownership. They practice critical theory which is the Cultural Marxist theory to criticize what they do not believe to arrive at what they do believe without ever having to examine what they believe. They confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something they never do.


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## harmonica (Apr 20, 2018)

everyone sins....''god'' made man to ''sin''....it is natural to ''sin''
so how can it be wrong?


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## ding (Apr 20, 2018)

GreenBean said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > there is no such thing as sin
> ...


Your way of seeing religion is diametrically opposed to the Founding Fathers of Freedom and Liberty.  

“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports...In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion...reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.” George Washington, Farewell Address, Sept 17, 1796

“Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand.” John Adams Letter of June 21, 1776

“Religion and good morals are the only solid foundations of public liberty and happiness.” Samuel Adams Letter to John Trumbull, October 16, 1778

“The great pillars of all government and of social life [are] virtue, morality, and religion. This is the armor…and this alone, that renders us invincible.” Patrick Henry Letter to Archibald Blair, January 8, 1799

“The only foundation for...a republic is to be laid in Religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments.” Benjamin Rush Essays, Literary, Moral and Philosophical, 1798

As our forefathers sought to build “one nation under God,” they purposely established their legal codes on the foundation of Natural Law. They believed that societies should be governed, as Jefferson put it, by “the moral law to which man has been subjected by his Creator, and of which his feelings, or conscience as it is sometimes called, are the evidence with which his Creator has furnished him. The moral duties which exist between individual and individual in a state of nature accompany them into a state of society,… their Maker not having released them from those duties on their forming themselves into a nation.” (Writings of Thomas Jefferson, 3:228)


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## ding (Apr 20, 2018)

GreenBean said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > there is no such thing as sin
> ...


Your way of seeing religion is exactly aligned with the founding fathers of communism.  

Communism is naturalized humanism. Karl Marx

The propaganda of atheism is necessary for our program. Vladimir Lenin

"Marxism is materialism. As such, it is as relentlessly hostile to religion..." Vladimir Lenin

"We must know how to combat religion..." Vladimir Lenin

"...The combating of religion cannot be confined to abstract ideological preaching, and it must not be reduced to such preaching. It must be linked up with the concrete practice of the class movement, which aims at eliminating the social roots of religion..." Vladimir Lenin

"A Marxist must be a materialist, i. e., an enemy of religion, but a dialectical materialist, i. e., one who treats the struggle against religion not in an abstract way, not on the basis of remote, purely theoretical, never varying preaching, but in a concrete way, on the basis of the class struggle which is going on in practice and is educating the masses more and better than anything else could."..." Vladimir Lenin

...in order to charm the golden birds, out of the pockets of his dearly beloved neighbours in Christ. He puts himself at the service of the other’s most depraved fancies, plays the pimp between him and his need, excites in him morbid appetites, lies in wait for each of his weaknesses – all so that he can then demand the cash for this service of love. (Every product is a bait with which to seduce away the other’s very being, his money; every real and possible need is a weakness which will lead the fly to the glue-pot. General exploitation of communal human nature, just as every imperfection in man, is a bond with heaven – an avenue giving the priest access to his heart; every need is an opportunity to approach one’s neighbour under the guise of the utmost amiability and to say to him: Dear friend, I give you what you need, but you know the conditio sine qua non; you know the ink in which you have to sign yourself over to me; in providing for your pleasure, I fleece you.)" Karl Marx


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## ding (Apr 20, 2018)

harmonica said:


> everyone sins....''god'' made man to ''sin''....it is natural to ''sin''
> so how can it be wrong?


Sin is anything which distances one from God, who is Truth and Existence.  Everything God made is good.  Which makes sense because things like evil, darkness and cold or not extant. They don't exist on their own. They exist as the absence of something else. Cold is the absence of heat. Darkness is the absence of light. And evil is the absence of good.

God did not make man to sin and it is not natural for man to sin.  We know this because man knows right from wrong, but when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong, he rationalizes that he didn't violate it. After Adam and Eve had sinned and realized they were naked, they hid when they heard God coming. They hid because they knew that they had done wrong. Then when God asked point blank if they had done it, they rationalized that it wasn't their fault. Adam, did you eat the apple? The woman you made gave it to me. Eve did you eat the apple? The serpent deceived me.

Man is the only animal capable of knowledge of good and evil. No other creature has this concept. Sure animals can have empathy, but not like man. Animals function on impulse and instinct. Man functions on these too, but in man's case he has the unique ability to override his impulses and instinct for the sake of good. That is free will. It's a choice. Everything is choice.

Genesis isn't implying that had Adam and Eve never committed the original sin, we would live in paradise forever. Genesis is saying that man has the capacity to do good and evil. So then the question begs why did God create such a world?  It is not virtuous if you are forced to be virtuous.  You must choose to be virtuous.  He is seeking a specific outcome under specific conditions.  We are being tested.


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## harmonica (Apr 20, 2018)

ding said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > everyone sins....''god'' made man to ''sin''....it is natural to ''sin''
> ...


I thought extramarital sex was a sin??
I thought *pride*, *greed*, *lust*, *envy*, *gluttony*, *wrath* and *sloth *were sins??these are all NATURAL--humans do these naturally


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## ding (Apr 20, 2018)

harmonica said:


> ding said:
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Why do you say we do these things naturally? How do you define and measure that exactly?


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## harmonica (Apr 20, 2018)

ding said:


> harmonica said:
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sex is not a natural ''act''/trait/etc???!!!....most of the animals even do it


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## harmonica (Apr 20, 2018)

ding said:


> harmonica said:
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sex is a ''necessity''  ...the species dies without it


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## mdk (Apr 20, 2018)




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## ding (Apr 20, 2018)

harmonica said:


> ding said:
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You said extramarital sex though, right?  What do animals have to do with that?


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## ding (Apr 20, 2018)

harmonica said:


> ding said:
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> > harmonica said:
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Sure, but we are discussing extramarital sex, right?  

What about pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath and sloth? Do you have an argument for why these are things that humans do naturally?


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## Taz (Apr 21, 2018)

ding said:


> harmonica said:
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Because god put them there?


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Apr 21, 2018)

ding said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
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> > harmonica said:
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And yet religion is used by far too many theists to ‘justify’ denying citizens their freedom and liberty – when they seek to deny gay and transgender Americans their right to equal protection of the law, when they seek to deny a woman her right to privacy, and when they seek to conjoin church and state contrary to the Framers’ mandate.

Indeed, the Framers knew all too well the danger of religion as a political weapon, and wisely sought to protect Americans from that danger.


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## Taz (Apr 21, 2018)

People who think that homosexuality is a sin spend way too much time thinking about assfucking.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Apr 21, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> GreenBean said:
> 
> 
> > BS Filter said:
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Correct.

The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment safeguards citizens from religious excess and overreach through force of law and government authority.

It prohibits the codification of religious doctrine and dogma into secular law.

It prohibits excessive entanglement of government and religion.

And it prohibits government action absent a secular purpose.


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## ding (Apr 21, 2018)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > GreenBean said:
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The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from interfering with state established religions.  Of which half of the states had at the time the Constitution was founded.


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## ding (Apr 21, 2018)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > GreenBean said:
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What people do in their own homes is between them and God.  The issue here is not that.  We live in a shared society with shared outcomes.  Just because I don't believe it is in our society's best interest to promote gay marriage as a standard doesn't mean I am a bigot or use the Bible as a basis for my belief. 

I have good reasons for opposing the codification of gay marriage in our society.  None of which are based on religious beliefs.


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## harmonica (Apr 21, 2018)

ding said:


> harmonica said:
> 
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??? you don't know???
sex is a ''necessity''...humans AND animals have to do it to keep the species going 
humans and animals do it = natural


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## ding (Apr 21, 2018)

harmonica said:


> ding said:
> 
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Animals don't get married.  So how can animals have extramarital sex?

How does pride occur naturally in nature?
How does greed occur naturally in nature?
How does lust occur naturally in nature?
How does envy occur naturally in nature?
How does gluttony occur naturally in nature?
How does wrath occur naturally in nature?
How does sloth occur naturally in nature?


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## harmonica (Apr 21, 2018)

ding said:


> harmonica said:
> 
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you just added to my evidence---that's RIGHT---they don't get married...they have extramarital sex!!  sex is natural--but god punishes us for it?? it's wrong??


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## ding (Apr 21, 2018)

harmonica said:


> ding said:
> 
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> > harmonica said:
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You logic is flawed.  We do get married.  Putting that aside, you made several other assertions that you have not addressed.  

How does pride occur naturally in nature?
How does greed occur naturally in nature?
How does lust occur naturally in nature?
How does envy occur naturally in nature?
How does gluttony occur naturally in nature?
How does wrath occur naturally in nature?
How does sloth occur naturally in nature?[


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## harmonica (Apr 21, 2018)

ding said:


> harmonica said:
> 
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but we have extra and pre marital sex!! like the animals
no--you can't deny it--sex is natural--a very strong ''need''--but then you say it is wrong???~!!!!!


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## ding (Apr 21, 2018)

harmonica said:


> ding said:
> 
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> > harmonica said:
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Animals don't have marriage.  So animals don't have extra and pre marital sex.  So humans can't have extra and pre marital sex like animals.  

You made several other assertions that you have not addressed. 

How does pride occur naturally in nature?
How does greed occur naturally in nature?
How does lust occur naturally in nature?
How does envy occur naturally in nature?
How does gluttony occur naturally in nature?
How does wrath occur naturally in nature?
How does sloth occur naturally in nature?

Are you ever going to address those, lol?


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## Taz (Apr 21, 2018)

ding said:


> harmonica said:
> 
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> > ding said:
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Why are you thinking of people assfucking each other, and why does it bother you?


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 21, 2018)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?




Yes, unless you're Muslim - then it is brave...


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## harmonica (Apr 21, 2018)

ding said:


> harmonica said:
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you have never been proud/greedy,etc --any of those?
if you say no--you are a LIAR
it's natural for humans to do all of those ''sins''
again EVERYONE sins---gee do you ever wonder why???!!!--it's natural

--now--out of ALL the people who should know NOT to sin, the priests sin by* sexual *molestation
---and don't say ''it's just a few''--because it is not

Jim Bakker
here's a big one:
*sinless*, god loving, Jimmy Swaggart tells Jim Bakker he's a SINNER for having a* SEX*ual affair


> a cancer on the body of Christ,''


but then Swaggart goes to prostitutes for *SEX !!!*
Swaggart Says He Has Sinned; Will Step Down
HYPOCRITES--you are ALL HYPOCRITES 
humans have extramarital sex all the time
Bill Clinton 
Arni Schwarzenegger 
Hugh Grant
JFK
etc etc to infinity ......
this is one of the most natural acts---you CAN"T deny it


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## ding (Apr 21, 2018)

harmonica said:


> ding said:
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No.  It is not natural to sin.  It is natural to be virtuous.  

If it were natural to sin, then no one would rationalize that they didn't.


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## ding (Apr 21, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
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Where did that come from?  You mad?


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Apr 21, 2018)

_"Is It Wrong to Think Homosexuality is a Sin?"_

For Christians it’s certainly inconsistent, given the fact that there are practicing gay Christians, gay members of the Christian clergy, and Churches that perform weddings for gay couples.


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## Taz (Apr 21, 2018)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
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You're always hanging out in the homo threads... Following Jesus...


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## harmonica (Apr 21, 2018)

ding said:


> harmonica said:
> 
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> > ding said:
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it is natural to ''sin''


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## ding (Apr 21, 2018)

harmonica said:


> ding said:
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No.  It is a choice to sin.


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## harmonica (Apr 21, 2018)

ding said:


> harmonica said:
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no it isn't


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## harmonica (Apr 21, 2018)

ding said:


> harmonica said:
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> > ding said:
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if that is true--why does every one sin??
why do you sin?  please answer--I'm waiting for a good one


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## ding (Apr 21, 2018)

harmonica said:


> ding said:
> 
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> > harmonica said:
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You have no choice?  

You have no control?


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## ding (Apr 21, 2018)

harmonica said:


> ding said:
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> > harmonica said:
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Because we are imperfect.

But we don't do it all the time.  It is the exception and not the rule.

Sort of like homosexuality in that regard.


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## Michelle420 (Apr 21, 2018)

ding said:


> harmonica said:
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> > ding said:
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## harmonica (Apr 21, 2018)

ding said:


> harmonica said:
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imperfect--meaning we are not perfect 
we were created/whatever as imperfect = we can't help it
we were created to be faulty --we can't help being faulty/wrong/sinning
im·per·fect
imˈpərfəkt/
_adjective_

*1*.
not perfect; *faulty *or incomplete.


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## harmonica (Apr 21, 2018)

ding said:


> harmonica said:
> 
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> > ding said:
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you are exactly right !! we are created to fail


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## ding (Apr 21, 2018)

harmonica said:


> ding said:
> 
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> > harmonica said:
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Not exactly.  We are being tested.  And for the most part we pass.

If it were as you say, we would sin all the time.


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## harmonica (Apr 21, 2018)

ding said:


> harmonica said:
> 
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> > ding said:
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no -no -no --you just said we are imperfect!! --that means we can't help being imperfect/failing/etc 
Freudian slip


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## ding (Apr 21, 2018)

harmonica said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > harmonica said:
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No Freudian slip at all.  We are imperfect.  That is why we are being tested, to purify us.  

We are all being pruned.  Even you.


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## ding (Apr 21, 2018)

harmonica said:


> ding said:
> 
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When you were first created ~14 billion years ago, you were perfect.  We all were.


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## harmonica (Apr 21, 2018)

ding said:


> harmonica said:
> 
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> > ding said:
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I don't sin --ok imperfect -slip
so he makes us imperfect and is testing us??  why??


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## ding (Apr 21, 2018)

harmonica said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > harmonica said:
> ...


No.  He made us perfect ~14 billion years ago.


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## harmonica (Apr 21, 2018)

ding said:


> harmonica said:
> 
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> > ding said:
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yes, I've heard this before 
blah blah blah


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## ding (Apr 21, 2018)

harmonica said:


> ding said:
> 
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> > harmonica said:
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It's true.  

"Did you know that the matter in your body is billions of years old? 

According to most astrophysicists, all the matter found in the universe today -- including the matter in people, plants, animals, the earth, stars, and galaxies -- was created at the very first moment of time, thought to be about 13 billion years ago."

Origins: CERN: Ideas: The Big Bang | Exploratorium


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## ding (Apr 21, 2018)

And another piece of the puzzle falls into place.

What they intended for evil, God is using for good.


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## ding (Apr 21, 2018)

harmonica said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > harmonica said:
> ...


To purify us.  To make us perfect again.  Just as we were when he created us.


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## harmonica (Apr 21, 2018)

ding said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


boy --we are sinful/evil/terrible--if we have to be purified
well--I don't need to be ...I'm fine 
if you think you need to be--fine


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## ding (Apr 21, 2018)

harmonica said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > harmonica said:
> ...


But you are being purified/pruned.  We all are.  You just don't realize it is happening to you, but it is.  You don't really have a choice in taking the test.  Just in learning the lessons.


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## there4eyeM (Apr 21, 2018)

The problem with "perfect" is that one would have to have a comparison. So, if we say no one is perfect, we mean we know what a perfect person would be while also saying such a being cannot be.
So, how do we know we aren't perfect? Isn't that really just saying we aren't satisfied? And, perhaps, being unsatisfied is the perfect thing to be.


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## harmonica (Apr 21, 2018)

there4eyeM said:


> The problem with "perfect" is that one would have to have a comparison. So, if we say no one is perfect, we mean we know what a perfect person would be while also saying such a being cannot be.
> So, how do we know we aren't perfect? Isn't that really just saying we aren't satisfied? And, perhaps, being unsatisfied is the perfect thing to be.


..to me, humans are imperfect 
..we murder for any number of reasons--nonsensical reasons 
..humans do the most nonsensical things--one of them is committing suicide along with murdering wives/children 
..they do things like jumping from cliffs/buildings/etc--that sometimes result in death
..most airplane crashes are human error 
..we know we are imperfect
...and we have wars--that kill millions/destroy/etc--!!!!  ''god creates'' humans that kill millions of other humans ??!!

no--we are imperfect and god creating us as ''perfect''' makes no reasonable sense 
..


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## ding (Apr 21, 2018)

there4eyeM said:


> The problem with "perfect" is that one would have to have a comparison. So, if we say no one is perfect, we mean we know what a perfect person would be while also saying such a being cannot be.
> So, how do we know we aren't perfect? Isn't that really just saying we aren't satisfied? And, perhaps, being unsatisfied is the perfect thing to be.


Being perfect does not mean doing perfect things.  It means BEING perfect.   Many a saint have pondered what this means.  

What do you think "being" means?


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## ding (Apr 21, 2018)

harmonica said:


> there4eyeM said:
> 
> 
> > The problem with "perfect" is that one would have to have a comparison. So, if we say no one is perfect, we mean we know what a perfect person would be while also saying such a being cannot be.
> ...


The moral law is what we ought to do, not what we do do.  

Why would you think that unless everything were perfect there could be no God?


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## Taz (Apr 22, 2018)

ding said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > there4eyeM said:
> ...


Nobody expected god to be perfect.


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## ding (Apr 22, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > harmonica said:
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We are to never think of God's power or perfection in terms of sheer omnipotence.  We are to think of God's power and perfection in terms of purpose.   Could God create perfection through his sheer omnipotence?  Sure, but then it would defeat his purpose which in reality would be a weakness.  God's purpose isn't to achieve a certain outcome.  God's purpose is to achieve a certain outcome under certain conditions.  You are being tested; purified.  It isn't virtuous for you to be made to be virtuous, Taz.  You have to choose to be virtuous to actually be virtuous.


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## Taz (Apr 23, 2018)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
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"God's purpose isn't to achieve a certain outcome. God's purpose is to achieve a certain outcome" 

You peeps sure have a lot of dumb excuses to scapegoat god's deficiencies. So god's not actually perfect, that's why we have deformed babies and cancer?


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## RodISHI (Apr 23, 2018)

Taz said:


> . So god's not actually perfect, that's why we have deformed babies and cancer?


Actually you should be asking why do humans keep messing up the creation with their crap that creates deformed babies.


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## Taz (Apr 23, 2018)

RodISHI said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > . So god's not actually perfect, that's why we have deformed babies and cancer?
> ...


Deformed babies, disease and cancer were happening a long time before the industrial revolution. Want to try again?


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## there4eyeM (Apr 23, 2018)

If we accept that we are imperfect, we accept that we cannot know what perfection is. If one accepts this and believes in 'God', then there is, thus, no basis upon which to criticize 'God'. If one accepts this and does not believe in 'God', then there can be no basis for criticism of others for not being perfect.


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## JW Frogen (Apr 23, 2018)

It depends on how much you think about it?

If it is more than once a day, you are probably gay.


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## Flash (Apr 23, 2018)

TNHarley said:


> Being gay is fine. I mean, really, who cares? It doesnt effect anyone except for that person and who he/she chooses to be with
> You can think of it in any way you want. Being wrong or "sinful" is completely subjective.
> Voice it if you want!



Queer butthurt sure as hell hurt the baker who had to pay out money because he didn't want to cater to a queer wedding.


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## cnm (Apr 23, 2018)

Taz said:


> "God's purpose isn't to achieve a certain outcome. God's purpose is to achieve a certain outcome"


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## cnm (Apr 23, 2018)

there4eyeM said:


> If we accept that we are imperfect, we accept that we cannot know what perfection is.


I'm not so sure. How can we say we haven't reached a mark if we don't know where the mark is?


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## RodISHI (Apr 23, 2018)

Taz said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


No need to try again. People have screwed (cursed) themselves up for ages.


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## Taz (Apr 23, 2018)

RodISHI said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...


How does a baby that hasn't been born yet screw things up for itself?


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## RodISHI (Apr 23, 2018)

Taz said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Its parents play a part in that.


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## Taz (Apr 23, 2018)

RodISHI said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
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So you're saying that parents are always responsible for a child with downs syndrome or cancer or deformed?


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## RodISHI (Apr 24, 2018)

Taz said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


I am saying that humankind in general are the cause their own miseries. You apparently seem to want to lay that off on God instead of putting the fault where it belongs with failed human precepts. 

God isn't going to stand in the way of you walking out in front of a bulldozer if that is what you determine you want to do. After all the Lord does give each its hearts desire and if you give yourself over to the son of perdition side in you and you desire to walk away from the spirit of truth or look the other way when it is there in front of you that is on you not the spirit of God.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 24, 2018)

RodISHI said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...


Humankind is the cause of down Syndrome?

What the hell is wrong with you?


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## RodISHI (Apr 24, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Are your mutated chromosomes having a meltdown?


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 24, 2018)

RodISHI said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...


So you do or do not believe that? A high intellect like yours should have no problem with this question.


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## RodISHI (Apr 24, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


I already stated what I believe if you do not like that statement press on.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 24, 2018)

RodISHI said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...


Yes, you stated that humanity is responsible for it's own problems. By inclusion, that would include Down Syndrome. Since this makes you seem like a fucking moron, we are giving you the chance to clarify your comments .

So....go ahead.


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## RodISHI (Apr 24, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


You are entitled to your opinion and your thoughts.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 24, 2018)

RodISHI said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...


That's adorable, but you avoided the question.

As of now, your stated position is that humans are responsible for their own problems, which includes things like down syndrome and cancer  

Would you like to double down on this bizarre set of beliefs, or would you like to better articulate your thoughts?


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## Taz (Apr 24, 2018)

RodISHI said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...


We're not talking about an adult making a bad decision, but rather a baby that hasn't lived yet and is born deformed, retarded or with cancer. It's not always the fault of the parents, sometimes it's genetic. That's on god. God doesn't have to let that happen.


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## RodISHI (Apr 24, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


I didn't avoid anything and my beliefs are merely bizarre in your opinion. Humans are allowed to make choices. Those choices create certain circumstances for the humans. Pretty simple. Humans subject themselves.


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## RodISHI (Apr 24, 2018)

Taz said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


"Genetics" is merely a phrase used by humans who do not have a full understand of the mechanism of the reactions that the humans make from humankind's own choices. I suppose next you'll be blaming God for creating nuclear reactor breakdowns? Even though humans knew that they were taking a risk when they built the facilities that break down.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 24, 2018)

RodISHI said:


> I didn't avoid anything and my beliefs are merely bizarre in your opinion.


Hmm, no , I think we can safely say that it is objectively bizarre to blame humans for down syndrome and all cancers.

Yes, you are avoiding my question.  Is this your belief?  yes or no will suffice.


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## RodISHI (Apr 24, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't avoid anything and my beliefs are merely bizarre in your opinion.
> ...


That humans create the conditions for cancers and downs syndrome? Is that you question? Maybe you need to be less furtive or get better at articulating your questions instead of blathering about your personal opinions concerning me or my thoughts. 

Yes humans create their own problems through choices made by humankind and then whine sometimes that God did that to them or created their self subjection's. That includes cancers, diseases and mutations in their DNA, Genes and Chromosomes. Is that specific enough for you on my position?


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 24, 2018)

ha, so you do feel humans are responsible for down syndrome.

Now, you get to regale us by telling us HOW they are responsible.  Which choices did they -- er, I mean WE -- make, which caused this?


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## RodISHI (Apr 24, 2018)

Look dumb ass if you want to design your life around red-light district rules then go there, stay there and live by the choices or errors that you make. You are making the decisions then you live the consequences.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 24, 2018)

RodISHI said:


> Look dumb ass if you want to design your life around red-light district rules then go there, stay there and live by the choices or errors that you make. You are making the decisions then you live the consequences.


That certainly was whiny and way off topic.  Let's try again:

What choices did human beings make that deem them responsible for Down Syndrome?

Come on man, what's taking so long?  Did you not think this through?


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## RodISHI (Apr 24, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Look dumb ass if you want to design your life around red-light district rules then go there, stay there and live by the choices or errors that you make. You are making the decisions then you live the consequences.
> ...


Do you desire to talk about the causation of Downs Syndrome or do you desire to talk about who is responsible for it humankind or God. Be specific and get a topic for causation of Downs Syndrome if that is what you wish to discuss. I am not into playing ring around the rosey with some dumb ass that can't think that through.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 24, 2018)

I'l try this again:

By what choices made by huimans do you deem humans responsible for Down Syndrome?

No, of course I do not think humans are responsible, or any fake gods, either.  How silly it is even to invoke fake magical spirits in this discussion. See what I did there?  i answered your concerns directly, with a minimum of effort, with no little self-serving tap dance.  Now, you try.


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## dannyboys (Apr 24, 2018)

For the sake of argument let's stipulate that there is a God.
Then we must believe that God was the one who came up with the idea of having thinking human beings on a planet.
Fine. So God must have also included the gays in the human race and Hitler and Bill Clinton and Charlie Manson.....only God knows why......right?
I don't give a flying fuck what people do with their genitals.
The upside is the gays aren't passing on their DNA to the next generation.
Maybe that's God's way of fucking with people's heads.


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## RodISHI (Apr 24, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> I'l try this again:
> 
> By what choices made by huimans do you deem humans responsible for Down Syndrome?
> 
> No, of course I do not think humans are responsible, or any fake gods, either.  How silly it is even to invoke fake magical spirits in this discussion. See what I did there?  i answered your concerns directly, with a minimum of effort, with no little self-serving tap dance.  Now, you try.


You are the one that jumped into the conversation post I made concerning humankind making choices and subjecting themselves. You'll have to try again and don't conflate chit to try to fit it all into your own opinions. The forum thread is about religion. Religions have a belief system which includes God. 

Again if you want to discuss causation of Downs start another thread. That is a very simple solution to your problem. I would suggest putting your quest for answers in the health section forum.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 24, 2018)

RodISHI said:


> You are the one that jumped into the conversation post I made concerning humankind making choices and subjecting themselves.


Yes, because, as it turns out, this is a public forum,.  Your words were quite clear: you said humanity is responsible for its problems.

And that this is being scrutinized, you are doing everything you can to avoid dealing with the very nauseating reality of what you said.

have you ever ONCE considered just admitting that what you said was stupid and that, upon further, review, you don't actually believe it?  This would be a good time to do exactly that.
\
Because believing that humans are responsible for down syndrome, and at the same time crediting god for the design of nature, is fucking painfully stupid.  Come on man, you cannot be this stupid.


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## RodISHI (Apr 24, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > You are the one that jumped into the conversation post I made concerning humankind making choices and subjecting themselves.
> ...


You do seem to like to rattle on don't you. You don't believe in God so you say and apparently you don't like the idea that humankind creates problems for its self. Thus you haven't got anything better to do than spout off. 

I do not need to consider what I said to be stupid. You apparently do not think that humans are not responsible for their own choices when those choices are made in error. Too bad for you as that is the way it is. Eat poison and you and yours will reap the rewards of whatever comes with it. Again pretty simple but that fails for some reason to click in that head of yours.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 24, 2018)

RodISHI said:


> You don't believe in God so you say and apparently you don't like the idea that humankind creates problems for its self.


You sure do spend a lot of time trying to guess my motivations.  You need to come to the realization that what I had for breakfast has ZERO bearing on the objective idiocy of your claim.  Let's try this again:

By what human choices do you deem humans responsible for Down Syndrome?  Go on, stop being a coward.  Either answer the question, or alter your previous comments that lead directly to this bizarre position.

I predict you will never answer this question, because you honestly believe that you can dance and prance and preen and make yourself "feel" like you wiggled out of the idiotic corner into which yo have painted yourself.

You will never answer my question, nor will you ever alter your previous, moronic comment.  this is what religion does to the human brain ... you WELCOME self-delusion.  You actually see it as a virtue, which is nauseating and as anti-intellectual as it gets.


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## RodISHI (Apr 24, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > You don't believe in God so you say and apparently you don't like the idea that humankind creates problems for its self.
> ...


I already told you by the choices that they make they subject themselves. And again if you want to talk about the causation of Downs Syndrome  start a thread on it in the health section. Is that too hard for you to comprehend?


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## danielpalos (Apr 27, 2018)

it is selfish and "Wrong", to not let girlfriends, keep their girlfriends.


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## ding (Apr 28, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


God's purpose isn't to achieve a certain outcome.  God's purpose is to achieve a certain outcome under certain conditions.  

Your intentional misstating of what I wrote is how I know you are a militant atheist.


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## ding (Apr 28, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
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And you have a weird expectation that there can be no God unless everything is perfect.  Thus proving you are indeed an atheist and a militant one at that.


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## harmonica (Apr 28, 2018)

RodISHI said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...


god's most ''important'' creation is flawed......god created something that is flawed--why?


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## ding (Apr 28, 2018)

harmonica said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Is that your standard for belief?  Perfection? 

14 billion years ago when he created time and space, it was perfect.  No disorder whatsoever.  From that moment on disorder increased but from that disorder, order arose.  Until the point that one of his creatures criticized him for what he created.  

Read Job 40 to see how your conversation will go when you blame him for your error.


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## Taz (Apr 29, 2018)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


How do you know that that's god's purpose?


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## Taz (Apr 29, 2018)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


I never said that, you made that up to fit me into your fantasy world.


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## ding (Apr 29, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Through observation, reason and experience.


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## ding (Apr 29, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Wrong.  I deduced it.


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## Taz (Apr 29, 2018)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


So you have nothing. Got it.


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## RodISHI (Apr 29, 2018)

harmonica said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Sorry the adversary (son of perdition) is not God's most important creation. Your thinking is what is flawed.


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## deanrd (Apr 29, 2018)

The way Republicans pick and choose what is sin is, is hilarious.

Cheating on your wife having unprotected sex with a porn star is either not a sin or very forgivable, even to someone NOT asking for forgiveness.

Tax cuts to billionaires while screwing over the poor is never a sin.

Lying about everything is never a sin for the GOP.


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## hobelim (Apr 29, 2018)

ding said:


> 14 billion years ago when he created time and space, it was perfect. No disorder whatsoever. From that moment on disorder increased but from that disorder, order arose. Until the point that one of his creatures criticized him for what he created.


You are insane.

The rebellion of satan was about the refusal of certain creatures to conform to the law of God once it came into the world only a few thousand years ago.

They probably saw themselves as the subject of refrain and condemnation in the divine menu and were highly insulted.

Imagine the rebellion in government if suddenly politicians were told by God that they would be cast into hell for the rest of their lives and then destroyed forever without compunction if they used deception to get elected and then betrayed the people they were entrusted to serve?


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## danielpalos (Apr 29, 2018)

It is wrong to not help out any heterosexual person, simply for the greater glory of our immortal souls.

and, practice should always, enable forms of Perfection.


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## ding (Apr 29, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Observation, reason and experience isn't nothing, Taz.  I've explained the details to you ad nauseam.  It's not like you don't know what I am talking about.

You are the one with nothing.


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## gtopa1 (Apr 29, 2018)

Nope.

Greg


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## ding (Apr 29, 2018)

hobelim said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > 14 billion years ago when he created time and space, it was perfect. No disorder whatsoever. From that moment on disorder increased but from that disorder, order arose. Until the point that one of his creatures criticized him for what he created.
> ...


Are you arguing that God did not create space and time?

Are you arguing that that did not happen ~14 billion years ago?

Are you arguing that when all matter and energy in the universe occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of single atom it was not perfectly ordered?

Are you arguing that the atoms that make up every person who existed or will exist were not present when space and time were created?

Everything I have said has been proven by science.

You are the one who is insane if you don't believe these things.


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## hobelim (Apr 29, 2018)

ding said:


> hobelim said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


  Im am saying that the genesis account of the creation of heaven and earth is not and never was about God creating the universe 14 billion years ago,  space and time, the solar system, the planet, or the first plants animals or humans.

The rebellion of Satan was rebellion against the will of God codified by Moses only a few thousand years ago.


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## ding (Apr 29, 2018)

hobelim said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > hobelim said:
> ...


Who told you that?


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## hobelim (Apr 29, 2018)

ding said:


> hobelim said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


  God.


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## ding (Apr 29, 2018)

hobelim said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > hobelim said:
> ...


How?


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## hobelim (Apr 29, 2018)

ding said:


> hobelim said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...




I've been to the top of the beanstalk and have in my possession the goose that lays the golden eggs.


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## Taz (Apr 29, 2018)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


I do know what you're talking about and it's all fartsmoke.


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## ding (Apr 29, 2018)

hobelim said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > hobelim said:
> ...


I didn't think you would be able to give an honest answer.


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## hobelim (Apr 29, 2018)

ding said:


> hobelim said:
> 
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> > ding said:
> ...


  I just did. Obviously you just don't understand my language.


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## ding (Apr 29, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Mudda said fartsmoke alot, Taz. 

Of course you know what I'm talking about. 

Every stage of the evolution of matter and energy has evolved to the point it was ready to make the next leap in the evolutionary ladder.  Consciousness, which is the pinnacle of evolution, is no different.  Consciousness is evolving.  It does so through a conflict and confusion process.  Diversity of thought is critical to that process.  Virtue is the ultimate order from chaos.  So the conflict and confusion process are the certain conditions and virtue is the certain outcome. 

Now do you understand?


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## ding (Apr 29, 2018)

hobelim said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > hobelim said:
> ...


No.  Your answer was non-responsive and evasive.

Tell me more about it and then maybe I will change my opinion.


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## hobelim (Apr 29, 2018)

ding said:


> hobelim said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...




No. I couldn't care less about changing your opinion.

Try harder and maybe you'll understand.


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## ding (Apr 29, 2018)

hobelim said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > hobelim said:
> ...


I'm happy enough to show that you had no answer, hobelim.


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## hobelim (Apr 29, 2018)

ding said:


> hobelim said:
> 
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> > ding said:
> ...




I am glad that you have found a way to pretend to be happy not understanding the answer given.


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## ding (Apr 29, 2018)

hobelim said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > hobelim said:
> ...


There was no answer give.  Just evasion.  I'm happy with that.  I was expecting it.


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## Wry Catcher (Apr 29, 2018)

Votto said:


> Hater!  Bigot!  Sadist!  Homophobe!  Misogynist!   Racist!   Hoodwinker!   Cheapskate!
> 
> I'm running out of name calling terms.
> 
> ...



Your safe zone exists, you simply need to push harder and deeper with your head up you ass.


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## Taz (Apr 29, 2018)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


You make no sense, one thing doesn't follow to the next.


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## Baron (Apr 29, 2018)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?



Homosexuality is clearly condemned through the Holy Bible, it is a Sin and all Homosexuals will finish in Hell.
No - one politically correct homo democrat can abolish God and his law


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## harmonica (Apr 29, 2018)

RodISHI said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...


1. any idea/thinking about god-his creations-etc can't be flawed because there is no god and you can't prove there is
2. man is the highest level of ''beings''--most important --and is very flawed


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## RodISHI (Apr 29, 2018)

harmonica said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > harmonica said:
> ...


You are the one that stated _"god's most ''important'' creation is flawed"_. Now you make another claim? Damn get your shit straight would you.


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## harmonica (Apr 29, 2018)

RodISHI said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...



maybe if you kept up with the thread you wouldn't look like a DUMBASS


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## ding (Apr 29, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Of course it does.  It is a pattern.


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## ding (Apr 29, 2018)

harmonica said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > harmonica said:
> ...


^ dunning effect


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## evenflow1969 (Apr 29, 2018)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?


No it is not a sin. It is a part of gods design, it is way of limiting populations. In the animal world homesexuality rises when the population is to large for the resources. Like I saw just below on 2. Who realy gives a shit who people love? I jst do not want to see public affection, get a room and no one should care! I think it is in poor taste for heterosexuals to be all over each other in public! also. Love who you want just do not force it on me!


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## Taz (Apr 29, 2018)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


 Yeah, ok.


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## ding (Apr 29, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


100%.  God is working in your life through the moral laws.  You are constantly receiving positive and negative feedback from God. And that feedback is changing the fabric of your identity and evolving your consciousness.


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## Taz (Apr 29, 2018)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


Mine and your moral standards are different, so does god account for that?


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## ding (Apr 29, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Find the highest possible standard for any given thing and that will be it.  

According to your morals, some human life is property to be disposed of at the will of its owner.  That wouldn't be the highest possible standard.


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## Taz (Apr 30, 2018)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


It is to me and a lot of other people, so you lose, princess. Forcing people to have babies is what scum would do.


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## ding (Apr 30, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


No.  Killing another human being for selfish reasons and rationalizing that it was moral is what you would do.


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## Taz (Apr 30, 2018)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


Just shows that different people have different moral standards. Your problem is that you want everyone to adhere to your moral standards and call everyone else a deviant...


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## ding (Apr 30, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


No. It shows the subjective nature of mankind.


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## there4eyeM (Apr 30, 2018)

One thing shown is that the hypocrisy of how humans decide life and death extends to the undefined area of an unborn fétus being, indeed, a 'baby' and a 'human' in the way that the mother is.


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## Taz (Apr 30, 2018)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


You can't even say what the moral standards are that you want everyone to adhere to. You can't adhere to non-existent standards.


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## ding (Apr 30, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Jesus summed them up when he said do unto others as you would have them do unto you.


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## Taz (Apr 30, 2018)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


You have nothing, as usual,


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## ding (Apr 30, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


So you don't believe that successful behavior naturally lead to success and failed behaviors naturally lead to failure?


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## Taz (May 1, 2018)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


Doing bad things can sometimes lead to a successful outcome. And doing the right thing can get you killed. So no, not always.


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## ding (May 1, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Violating moral laws is not like violating physical laws.  The consequence isn't always immediate.  It is probabilistic. 

But are you seriously arguing that successful behaviors don't naturally lead to successful outcomes?


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## Taz (May 1, 2018)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


What some people see as Trump's successful behavior led to a successful outcome, others see as a fat, stupid, immoral jackass. So my question, like it was before, is who gets to choose? Did nature choose Trump's behavior as successful? I sure fucking hope not!


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## hobelim (May 1, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


 

Trump being president is not an indication of the success of his deceptions and despicable behavior. It is an indication of the people's failure to value truth and condemn, reject, and prevent a deceitful and despicable  low life with absolutely no morals ethics or class from ever holding public office...

Even so his success is an illusion, like the brief success of a bank robber who gets away clean with a big bag of money only for red dye to explode allover his face in the get away car.

The red dye is all over the republican party, the religious right, and fox news too....lol...Awesome!

Its actually kind of funny seeing them all standing there surrounded by the police saying,  "Red dye? What red dye?".

"I never colluded with russia.. No collusion! Ask the republican house intelligence committee." lol. "Never mind that I openly asked russia to interfere with an election on national TV during my campaign. Never mind that my closest people, really great people, secretly met with russian officials to do just that.  Thats false news, the liberal media, crooked Hillary, the deep state, an out of control intelligence community, Obama, immigrants, the Jews. Don't pay any attention to that little man behind the iron curtain.  WITCH HUNT! " .....I'm just a really nice guy, very smart, no one is smarter, who just wanted to make America great again"...

"Why is everybody always pickin' on me?"  lol


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## ding (May 1, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


What part of probabilistic outcomes did you not understand?

What part of normalization of deviance from the standard eventually leads to predictable surprises did you not understand?

Because here you are still arguing exceptions over the self evident truth that successful behaviors naturally lead to success and failed behaviors naturally lead to failure.  

The only people who argue against that are people who don't accept accountability and believe in blind luck.


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## ding (May 6, 2018)

hobelim said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > hobelim said:
> ...


Your position is it's all a fairy tale.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (May 6, 2018)

RodISHI said:


> I already told you by the choices that they make they subject themselves.


And which "choices" caused Down Syndrome?

Come on, time to be a big kid and own your evil comments. Yes, what you said is disgusting, and we're going to demonstrate that your fucked up, magical morality is, in fact, immoral, irrational, and unethical.

That is, if you don't slither away (which you almost certainly will do, because you can already smell that you said something vile).


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## RodISHI (May 6, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > I already told you by the choices that they make they subject themselves.
> ...


Go f' your self. I answered you already and you slithered away days ago. I have better things to do than play with you in your shit filled sandbox.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (May 6, 2018)

RodISHI said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...


You never once explained how our choices caused harmful genetic conditions, like down syndrome. Anyone can see that for themselves. You are a shameless little liar who said something very evil and stupid, and you are going to dance and prance and preen yourself to avoid owning it.

Again, as anyone can see for themselves. No dummy, you are not fooling anyone with 50 posts saying you don't "feel" like explaining it (which would take ONE post). It's embarrassing just to watch you act this way.


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## RodISHI (May 6, 2018)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


You do like to try to twist shit don't you. From what you claim you not believe in the spirit of God or that the spirit of justice came into the world. Just because you are blinded in your own sin doesn't mean that others are all in that same boat with you. "Embarrassed", highly unlikely. I'd say your more ignorant and feeling like you can be totally unashamed in your little world of lies and attempts at deception more than anything else.


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## irosie91 (May 6, 2018)

Bonzi said:


> What do you think?
> 
> If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?



I believe that homosexuality is a sin as much as I believe that masturbation is a sin. 
It is a sin ONLY if one acts it out IN PUBLIC


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## Taz (May 6, 2018)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


So nature is better off with gay beings in it. Nature being so successful and all.


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## ding (May 6, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Diversity is good.  Normalizing deviance from the standard, not so much.


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## Taz (May 6, 2018)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


Being gay isn't deviant. Please try again.


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## ding (May 6, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


That wasn't what I was talking about.  But now that you mention it...


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## BS Filter (May 6, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Homo Sapiens are heterosexual by nature.  That means homosexuality is deviant behavior.


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## Taz (May 7, 2018)

BS Filter said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


Actually, some people are naturally homosexual, meaning made by nature, so no, not deviant but natural.


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## ding (May 7, 2018)

Taz said:


> BS Filter said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Statistically they are the exception, not the rule.  In other words, they deviate from the norm.


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## irosie91 (May 7, 2018)

BS Filter said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...



yeah----sorta.      Deviant is not a nice word for a NATURALLY occurring  "deviation"  from
nature------there were lots and lots-------in nature that which CAN happen----does.  
Some people are born blind----some homosexual


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## Taz (May 7, 2018)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > BS Filter said:
> ...


So left handers deviate from the norm as well then, and your point is meaningless. It's all natural, as in, made by nature.


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## irosie91 (May 7, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...



true------I am a deviant lefty.       but nice anyway


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## Taz (May 7, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> BS Filter said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


BS is a Jehovah's Witness, NOW you're talking about deviation and deviant!


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## Taz (May 7, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


dingbat is trying to say that homosexuality is a deviation of the norm, it's not, the norm in nature is to have some homosexuality.

And you're not deviant, you're BADASS!


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## ding (May 7, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


No. Normalizing deviance from the standard leads to predictable surprises.   That's my point and it is valid.


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## Taz (May 7, 2018)

ding said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...


I already shot down that dumb thesis a long time ago. Nature is full of different surprises that go against the majority (which you wrongly call the norm), and it's all part of a whole. Nobody is deviating from anything, nature demands variety. So everything is natural and leads to their own outcome.


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## BS Filter (May 7, 2018)

Taz said:


> BS Filter said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


Nope.  That's your opinion, not a scientific fact.  If they're born with male genitals, they're a male, etc.


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## ding (May 7, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
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> > Taz said:
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Actually you didn't shoot it down. Normalization of deviance leads to predictable surprises. 

All you did in the past was try to muddy the waters on what normalization of deviance means because you can't debate it honestly.


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## ding (May 7, 2018)

The standard is one man and one woman to raise a child.


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## Taz (May 7, 2018)

ding said:


> Taz said:
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> > ding said:
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So give me an example of your theory. And be honest about it.


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## DrLove (May 7, 2018)

*Is It Wrong to Think Homosexuality is a Sin?*

No, merely sheltered & ignorant


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## ding (May 7, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
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Suffering consequences from lowering standards isn't my theory.  It is reality.


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## Taz (May 7, 2018)

ding said:


> Taz said:
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You can't even give ONE example? Then you have NADA!


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## ding (May 7, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
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Here's an example when you act like an ass people respond accordingly.


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## Taz (May 7, 2018)

ding said:


> Taz said:
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My standards are VERY high. You people are jackasses. You fail again.


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## ding (May 7, 2018)

Taz said:


> ding said:
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Not if you placed your selfishness above that well being of another they aren't.


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## seaofnails (May 11, 2018)

*Hello.*

*All I can say is that some sins were really harmful, dangerous and devastating to the health and livelihood of the Jewish society.  And maybe the Hebrews were weaker in their bodies and immune system and had certain dispositions for having health problems relating to homoseXuality and beastality and adultery.    Washing pans, pots, clothing and washing after having seX was a mandatory law that Moses established.  Perhaps The Jews had health problems or perhaps God wanted to prevent them from having problems down the road,  In any regard, homoseXuals and Liberal Democrats and Atheists really do not care about it.*

*To them, it is just another method and mode to eXtract and filter Your taXes through their system to feed their infectious lifestyles.  This is their career and livelihood and how they make a living from the Liberal Democrat  METH HEAD Politician to the meth head down with His face in the street waiting for the Liberal Democrat METH HEAD Politician to get His / Her neXt fiX.*

*Their cities are filled with millions of diseased people who are dying while they concentrate on fat people buying a cup of soda pop.  These people are demented, evil, perverted, twisted and they are eXpert liars and drug addicted users and abusers masquerading as highly intoxicated holy heroes.*

There were basic sins and laws that were made and there were   BLOOD  CRIME  Laws that were a health risk to all.
The term their blood shall be upon them applies to  SINS that probably demand a death penalty when they are broken.

*their blood shall be upon them*   =  Meaning the* BLOOD*  CRIME was  committed against the BLOOD *pathogens* ....
*Bloodborne pathogens* are infectious microorganisms in human *blood* that can cause disease in humans. These pathogens include, but are not limited to, hepatitis B (HBV), hepatitis C (HCV) and human immunodeficiency virus (HIV). Needlesticks and other sharps-related injuries may expose workers to *bloodborne pathogens*.

In The Bible, once an infected person contaminated the water supply or other people through food, feces, blood or other germ spreading methods.  it is over for You and whomever You Yourself also infect,  Entire families and neighborhoods are infected to die a slow, painful, horrible suffering agonizing death.

 Once You catch a virus, Germ, Disease, Infection or anything   - You are finished.  {  Done }   Your family and all others who You come into contact with are also doomed to suffer a life of agony, suffering and horrible pain - dying slowly from a plague or disease or virus or symptom.   Atheists disregard all of these facts.   No cures, NOTHING.

Lev_20:13  If a man also lies with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.     God loves all people, even gays too   {  I love gays }  =-  but the human body was not designed to share homoseXual germs pertaining to the fecal orbit of the massive multiple partners of the homoseXuality community,  that is filled with diseases  STDS  that are transmitted during vaginal, anal, and oral sex  to the rest of the population.  And these diseases spread from basic hand to hand contact.  *The plagues, bacterium, diseases, germs, and infections are too much for the people in Biblical times to fight and it spread too fast. * 

Gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men accounted for 83% of primary and secondary syphilis cases.    

God was making sure that the Jews knew about it and that the BLOOD  CRIMES  LAWS  were very clear and people had a defense and that was putting and forcing the  BLOOD CRIME  OFFENDERS   -  OUT and away from Your children and wives.  Protection.

Not just Gays  -  But all Fornication and Adultery and Beastality.  God was a clean freak back when there were no hospitals, medicine, cures, treatments, vaccinations and medicine and doctors.  Once You catch a disease You will suffer forever and all You also infect innocent others who also will suffer a life of horrible, painful, agonizing torment* even though You never even committed a sin.*


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## G.T. (May 11, 2018)

Weird but...

despite weapons having more destructive potential than ever in history.. 

more secular societies than ever in history....


and taboos about gayness decreasing .......


worldwide violence per capita is at an all time low. Imagine that


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## Moonglow (May 11, 2018)

G.T. said:


> Weird but...
> 
> despite weapons having more destructive potential than ever in history..
> 
> ...


And people are still having sex, even though they were told not to.


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## danielpalos (May 11, 2018)

is it wrong to give women who claim to be willing to be friends, a free pass, simply to avoid the sin of masturbation and homosexuality?


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## crazyme (May 19, 2018)

*Is It Wrong to Think Homosexuality is a Sin?*

okay... let's start with the word 'sin'.  

What is the definition of 'sin'?

1 John 3:4  "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for *sin* *is* *the transgression* *of* *the law*."


1 John 3 Interlinear

3956 [e]

Pas
Πᾶς
*Everyone*
Adj-NMS

3588 [e]
ho
ὁ
 - 
Art-NMS
4160 [e]
poiōn
ποιῶν
*practicing*
V-PPA-NMS

3588 [e]
tēn
τὴν
 - 
Art-AFS

266 [e]
hamartian
ἁμαρτίαν  ,
*sin*
N-AFS

2532 [e]
kai
καὶ
*also*
Conj

3588 [e]
tēn
τὴν
 - 
Art-AFS

458 [e]
anomian
ἀνομίαν
*lawlessness*

N-AFS
4160 [e]
poiei
ποιεῖ  ;
*practices*

V-PIA-3S
2532 [e]
kai
καὶ
*and*

Conj
3588 [e]
hē
ἡ
 - 
Art-NFS

266 [e]
hamartia
ἁμαρτία
*sin*

N-NFS
1510 [e]
estin
ἐστὶν
*is*

V-PIA-3S
3588 [e]
hē
ἡ
 - 
Art-NFS
458 [e]
anomia
ἀνομία  .
*lawlessness*
N-NFS


So... what would 'sin' be? 

Lawlessness... But what is Lawlessness if I'm okay with the act and so are the others?

Lawlessness
458. anomia 
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
iniquity, transgression, unrighteousness.
From anomos; illegality, i.e. Violation of law or (genitive case) wickedness -- iniquity, X transgress(-ion of) the law, unrighteousness.

459. anomos 
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
without law, unlawful, wicked.
From a (as a negative particle) and nomos; lawless, i.e. (negatively) not subject to (the Jewish) law; (by implication, a Gentile), or (positively) wicked -- without law, lawless, transgressor, unlawful, wicked.


Is a violation towards another's private life, 'Lawless'?


So the question can continue... Is same sex sexual activity, 'lawless'?

No it is not Lawless, it is an abomination.

okay.. so what is the difference between lawlessness and abominations?

Leviticus 18:22  "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it _is_ abomination."


What would 'lie' mean?  a very plain one would be to engage in sexual activities.
what would 'as with womankind' mean?  Penetrative sex.

and what does abomination mean?

8441. toebah

Tolaites

Or tonebah {to-ay-baw'}; feminine active participle of ta'ab; properly, something disgusting (morally), i.e. (as noun) an abhorrence; especially idolatry or (concretely) an idol -- abominable (custom, thing), abomination.

8581. taab
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
make to be abhorred, be, commit more, utterly
A primitive root; to loathe, i.e. (morally) detest -- (make to be) abhor(-red), (be, commit more, do) abominable(-y), X utterly.



an act, if not directly resisted against or redirected in another direction, that will make to be(come) abhorred, and to be come as 'commit more and more, utterly', as in an addiction.


okay.. so what are some other examples of abominations?

Proverbs 29:27  "An unjust man _is_ an abomination to the just: and _he that is_ upright in the way _is_ abomination to the wicked."

1 Kings 11:7  "Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that _is_ before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon."

Proverbs 11:1  "A false balance _is_ abomination to the LORD: but a just weight _is_ his delight."


okay.. so is an unjust man a 'sin'  and/or is the upright one in the way a 'sin'?
Is the statue of chemosh or the statue of molech, a 'sin'?
is having a false balance a 'sin'?

Proverbs 16:12_  "It is_ an abomination to kings to commit wickedness: for the throne is established by righteousness."


 A king that commits wickedness will become 'addicted' to wickedness if an outside direct resistance or redirection is not applied.


So.. is invasion to other privacy an abomination or a lawless act?  Or can it be both?

Question:  What is 'denial' a result of?

an addiction.


Isaiah 4:6  "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: .."

Why are they destroyed?  For 'sin' or for 'abomination' or 'for lack of knowledge'?

What is sin, again?  What is abomination, again?  What is knowledge, again?

Was i privy to this 'knowledge' before?


So... for same sex penetrative sex.. it will become an addiction because it makes to commit more and more.    penetrative sex...


The same with lying lips...

Proverbs 12:22
"Lying lips _are_ abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly _are_ his delight."


They who lie with their lips, do so more and more and soon it becomes an addiction towards God to lie to The LORD.


Is same sex penetrative sex a 'sin'?  Is it 'lawless'?  Can I go to jail for it?  Can I be fined?  Is it like running a red light?  Lawless? 

No.. it is something that if not directly resisted against or redirected in another direction, will become an addiction..

The Abominable snow ball effect.


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## danielpalos (May 20, 2018)

Where are the nice girls who are willing to help us not commit the sin of masturbation, simply Because, nice girl friends do in modern times, and the greater glory of our immortal souls.

Don't let us be, ninety-eight cents short!

Good helpmeets do, in modern times.


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## crazyme (May 20, 2018)

Shouldn't the members of the Church be given this knowledge if they are wondering about their personal sexualit(ies)?  It might help some more than others.

The knowledge of the definition of 'sin' and of 'abomination' and the differences?

Growing support for same sex marriages from all religions. (bar evangelicals)


Why?  Well, if they are in Church, they obviously care about their future.


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## seaofnails (Jun 17, 2018)

REMEMBER  in  The Bible.

When You go to War against a Nation the Often need and the Custom and Practice was to Kill their Women and Children as well..

The United States went to war against Germany, Italy, Japan, Vietnam, and Against Muslims too. We KNOW Full and Well that the WHOLESALE Slaughter of Woman and Children is a mandatory and an absolute must. It happens In every single Major war, once the major battles have been fought.

the woman and teenage children work to Keep the War Machine Going. The Woman and Youth of our enemies worked to make Bullets, Clothing, Medical Packs, and Boots and Other Bomb making tools and explosives, all various Instruments of War and the little children, schools, nurseries, and babies are often located where they store important supplies.

The Woman and Children of the Enemy are Just as important as the Soldiers. The Woman and Youth FILL the Factories and Work to make supplies and Tools and to AID their Soldiers. We Crushed our Enemies. Destroyed these Factories and Plants and Storage facilities. Woman and Youth, work around the Clock to Prepare Food and medical Kits for the Soldiers. these Woman and Children are a major TARGET in a Real War. In little police actions and small military ops, where we have the Upper hand. We can Pretend that Woman and Children are special. But when it comes to a REAL WAR. All that garbage goes out the door.

THE FACT IS..............................  If - You are Fighting Several Enemies at once, OUTNUMBERED and Losing Men and suffering and loosing and prolonging the war by keeping these Woman and Children alive, just to be RECRUITED Again by another enemy and help them over a span of several centuries, the Children of the Enemy Grew up to be Adults. New Warriors, NEW Fighters, NEW TERRORISTS who were TAUGHT and raised and trained to HATE and Kill and make war against the Jews, who had Killed their Fathers.

The best Way was to Completely destroy the Enemy and those who attacked you Completely and Fully.

The Hebrews were behaving normal. After being attacked by Overwhelming odds and being abused by their Neighboring Nations, the Jews Finished the Wars and Won and survived, by Killing Woman and Children. Millions and Millions and millions of Woman and Children have died in WW ll, in Vietnam, in The Middle East. had we not Killed WOMEN and CHILDREN in these REAL WARS. We would have never, EVER won the wars and would not survive.  I am Glad to Discuss this with You....... Perhaps some people would rather that the Hebrews had not Survived ?   But.....This is the way that they survived.

they did not want to allow the Children of their Enemy to grow up and continue fighting against them and they did not want to ADOPT them because they were the Children of their Enemy.  The Bible was about protecting babies and protecting life of families.

Today, If You are gay or have had any gay sex within the last year - You are banned from donating blood and organs. In the Bible days, there were no treatments, tests, medicines and antibiotics, cures, surgeries and modern advanced technologies. Once You catch a disease You and everyone that You knowingly infect are doomed to suffer a horrible, painful and excruciating, torturous and agonizing Painful horrible death. You beg for someone to knock You in the head and get it over with as Your penis or guts or liver or organs are literally slowly rotting off - with no painkillers, no treatments, and medicine. The Jews were being constantly attacked and were in a constant state of war. They were always on the run and living and surviving with all of Your neighbors attacking You is nearly impossible especially when Your neighbors are also spreading diseases in the water supply and by having seXual contact with people in Your Own Neighborhoods. Leviticus has explained many of the details of the violent, evil behaviors of the neighbors of the Israelites who were allied against Israel and attacking them ...... for even their sons and their daughters, they have burnt in the fire to their gods. .... Lev 18:3 ... ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, do not walk in their ordinances. Lev 18:7 INCEST - causing blood problems. - Lev 18:20 Adultery - causing blood problems. - Lev 18:21 BURNING little Children in a fire. Lev 18:22 HOMOSEXUALITY - causing blood problems. Lev 18:23 BEASTALITY - causing blood problems.

There were diseases, plagues and at their last stages of dying from homosexual/gay rectal, bowel cancers and stomach cancers. Homosexuals place others in danger. i know the pain, I have spent time in the trenches. changing diapers cleaning up vomit and bathroom and bloody foam from the mouth as the gay dies in agony.


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