# Talk about clueless obama and 10,000 Engineers a Year



## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 16, 2011)

I was listening to the news on my way home the other day, and they were doing a segment on an obama speech, and obama wanting to start a program to teach 10,000 new Engineers a Year. I have ponder this since I heard it. Where does he plan to place all those new engineers? There will have to be enough new jobs for these highly trained people to have work. The you must have someone with the need to start a new project Then you must have new contractions jobs and people to do the job.
I just think he's scared and blowing smoking up his followers ass.

Obama Unveils Push to Train 10,000 Engineers a Year


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## rightwinger (Jun 16, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> I was listening to the news on my way home the other day, and they were doing a segment on an obama speech, and obama wanting to start a program to teach 10,000 new Engineers a Year. I have ponder this since I heard it. Where does he plan to place all those new engineers? There will have to be enough new jobs for these highly trained people to have work. The you must have someone with the need to start a new project Then you must have new contractions jobs and people to do the job.
> I just think he's scared and blowing smoking up his followers ass.
> 
> Obama Unveils Push to Train 10,000 Engineers a Year



Having worked as an Engineer for over 30 years I can tell you a large percentage of our engineers come from overseas. Americans are too stupid and too lazy to become engineers. The jobs are there....always have been

Look at what college graduates are getting jobs


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 16, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
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> > I was listening to the news on my way home the other day, and they were doing a segment on an obama speech, and obama wanting to start a program to teach 10,000 new Engineers a Year. I have ponder this since I heard it. Where does he plan to place all those new engineers? There will have to be enough new jobs for these highly trained people to have work. The you must have someone with the need to start a new project Then you must have new contractions jobs and people to do the job.
> ...



I'm in construction and deal with  Engineer's on a daily basis there aren't enough job to have 10,000 new  Engineer's every years.


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## xsited1 (Jun 16, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> I was listening to the news on my way home the other day, and they were doing a segment on an obama speech, and obama wanting to start a program to teach 10,000 new Engineers a Year. I have ponder this since I heard it. Where does he plan to place all those new engineers? There will have to be enough new jobs for these highly trained people to have work. The you must have someone with the need to start a new project Then you must have new contractions jobs and people to do the job.
> I just think he's scared and blowing smoking up his followers ass.
> 
> Obama Unveils Push to Train 10,000 Engineers a Year



Good luck with that.


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## rightwinger (Jun 16, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


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You have no idea whay engineers do

There are well over 10,000 recent engineering grads who find jobs. The problem is that a good percentage of those grads are foreign

Americans are too stupid and lazy to graduate in Engineering


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## rightwinger (Jun 16, 2011)

Nothing against foreign engineers. They are well educated and well motivated. They do a very good job. Problem is that Americans are poorly prepared for engineering when they graduate HS


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## Big Black Dog (Jun 16, 2011)

They should train 10,000 Sanitation Engineers and when they have become well-trained, take them to Washington to get the shit out of that town.


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## rightwinger (Jun 16, 2011)

Big Black Dog said:


> They should train 10,000 Sanitation Engineers and when they have become well-trained, take them to Washington to get the shit out of that town.



Ha..ha

Thats a good one...you make it up all by yourself?


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## daveman (Jun 16, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> Having worked as an Engineer for over 30 years I can tell you a large percentage of our engineers come from overseas. Americans are too stupid and too lazy to become engineers. The jobs are there....always have been
> 
> Look at what college graduates are getting jobs


Too stupid and lazy?

No, I'd say primary education simply isn't preparing kids for technical professions.


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## daveman (Jun 16, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> Nothing against foreign engineers. They are well educated and well motivated. They do a very good job. Problem is that Americans are poorly prepared for engineering when they graduate HS


And that's not the kids' fault, it's the education system's.  

Perhaps if we spent a little less time handing out participation medals and a little more time teaching math and science...?


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## xsited1 (Jun 16, 2011)

rightwinger said:


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Unfortunately for the US, RightWinger is correct.  My education is in Physics, but I also have an MS in Electrical Engineering.  In 1986, my class size was 125 and there were only 4 Americans.  It's only gotten worse since then.  Americans are just not capable of competing with foreigners.  Compare High School students around the world.  Americans just can't compete in Mathematics and Science and it continues to get worse every year.  We are becoming a 3rd world country.


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## Samson (Jun 16, 2011)

rightwinger said:


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But didn't you just say that YOU graduated in Engineering?


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## Samson (Jun 17, 2011)

xsited1 said:


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No, I disagree.

The foreign students often do not leave the US.

They fill positions that US companies simply cannot fill with the domestic workforce.

The "brain drain" is in India, and China, where there best and brightest are deciding to reside in the USA.

It is ironic that Obama, who knows nothing about Engineering, or the employment thereof, should be using tax dollars to promote Engineering

Also ironic is there are only 5 members of congress who are engineers:


> Five members are engineers (including Reps. Joe Barton, Cliff Stearns, Pete Stark).


And only 6 scientists


> Six members are scientists: three physicists (Reps. Rush Holt, Bill Foster, and Vern Ehlers),[21] a chemist (Rep. Ed Pastor[22]), a microbiologist (Rep. Louise Slaughter), and a physiologist (Rep. Roscoe Bartlett).



Like Obama:



> 225 (168 Representatives and 57 Senators) list law[19]



By the way, Congress has the lowest approval rating of any other institution in the USA.

Yea Lawyers.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 17, 2011)

rightwinger said:


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Actually I do know what I am talking about, you on the other hand don't. Being a girl friday for an Engineering frim is not being an Engineer. America has yet to recover from the last economical down turn.

Engineering firm to close, lay off off 55 state workers
Engineering firm to close, lay off off 55 state workers - Morning Call

From this Enginerring discussion board it doesn't look good
Where is Engineering Going In The Next 5 Years - Best engineering market (i.e. city for it)?

CHA, the region&#8217;s largest engineering firm, laid off 57 people, froze salaries and cut hours for about 7 percent of its nationwide work force as demand for its land development services waned this year.

Layoffs hit CHA, other engineering firms; some divisions remain strong | The Business Review


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## rightwinger (Jun 17, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


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55 ?

Yea..I guess that proves your point


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## editec (Jun 17, 2011)

> IT employment in the U.S. fell by 17,000 jobs in February (download PDF), or less than a half a percent. That's an improvement over December, which saw a decline of 56,000 jobs, or 1.4%, and January, with job cuts of 46,000, or 1.15%.
> 
> IT employment, which peaked last November at more than 4 million jobs, now stands at 3,938,800.
> 
> ...


source



> *7/7/2009 6:26 PM EDT *
> 
> *WASHINGTON  U.S. engineering unemployment soared to a record in the second quarter of 2009, nearly doubling on a quarterly basis to 8.6 percent, the IEEE-USA said Tuesday (July 7), citing government figures.
> The previous quarterly record for joblessness among U.S. electrical and electronic engineers was 7 percent, reached in October 2003.
> ...






*source*

*The above are both dated 2009.*

*My point in posting the above is merely to note that even the highly educated are subject to the laws of supply and demand in the labor market.*


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## RetiredGySgt (Jun 17, 2011)

daveman said:


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> > Having worked as an Engineer for over 30 years I can tell you a large percentage of our engineers come from overseas. Americans are too stupid and too lazy to become engineers. The jobs are there....always have been
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Thanks to Liberals.


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## Sallow (Jun 17, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> I was listening to the news on my way home the other day, and they were doing a segment on an obama speech, and obama wanting to start a program to teach 10,000 new Engineers a Year. I have ponder this since I heard it.* Where does he plan to place all those new engineers? There will have to be enough new jobs for these highly trained people to have work.* The you must have someone with the need to start a new project Then you must have new contractions jobs and people to do the job.
> I just think he's scared and blowing smoking up his followers ass.
> 
> Obama Unveils Push to Train 10,000 Engineers a Year



This mentality is unbelievable..you know that? It absolutely infuriates me.

Of course we have people with the intellect to become engineers. You know what they wind up becoming? Business professionals who come up with algorithms intended to slosh money out of other peoples pockets to their own. They don't build anything. They don't do anything useful..really.

We NEED to build again. And by build, I mean really build. We need to innovate, explore, and create.

Almost everything that dramatically changed the course of humanity..CAME FROM THIS COUNTRY. THATS THE WAY IT USE TO BE. One of the FOUNDERS of this COUNTRY discovered electricity.

THIS IS WHY CONSERVATISM IS A FAILURE.


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## Sallow (Jun 17, 2011)

RetiredGySgt said:


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No..thanks to Conservatives.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ixNPplo-SU]YouTube - &#x202a;Reagan Government is not the solution to our problem government IS the problem&#x202c;&rlm;[/ame]


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## daveman (Jun 17, 2011)

Sallow said:


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> > I was listening to the news on my way home the other day, and they were doing a segment on an obama speech, and obama wanting to start a program to teach 10,000 new Engineers a Year. I have ponder this since I heard it.* Where does he plan to place all those new engineers? There will have to be enough new jobs for these highly trained people to have work.* The you must have someone with the need to start a new project Then you must have new contractions jobs and people to do the job.
> ...


It's not conservatives who have taught our children that their feelings are more important than test scores.


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## rightwinger (Jun 17, 2011)

xsited1 said:


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And that's why Obama wants to emphasize engineering and science


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## rightwinger (Jun 17, 2011)

daveman said:


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Yet there are very few conservatives/republicans who are scientists or engineers


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## daveman (Jun 17, 2011)

rightwinger said:


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Yeah, I keep hearing you bozos repeating that, but I never see anything credible to back it up.

Anecdotally, all the engineers I've worked with have been conservatives.  And I've worked with around a hundred or so throughout my career.  Of course, they've been military civil and mechanical engineers, a few EEs, and an architect or two.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 17, 2011)

Sallow said:


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> > I was listening to the news on my way home the other day, and they were doing a segment on an obama speech, and obama wanting to start a program to teach 10,000 new Engineers a Year. I have ponder this since I heard it.* Where does he plan to place all those new engineers? There will have to be enough new jobs for these highly trained people to have work.* The you must have someone with the need to start a new project Then you must have new contractions jobs and people to do the job.
> ...



Do you know what infuriates me? Someone taking something I said and taking it out of context. The jobs I was talking about would be those in the construction industry. Pre job depending on the size you will have an engineer per craft.



> We NEED to build again. And by build, I mean really build. We need to innovate, explore, and create.



You are contridicting yourself 



> THIS IS WHY CONSERVATISM IS A FAILURE



Now who is the one who is killing te economy? Libreals are if you missed that part.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 17, 2011)

rightwinger said:


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Don't just read the title read the whole story.


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## psikeyhackr (Jun 17, 2011)

How does anybody expect to produce engineers when grade school graduates don't have a clue about science?  A nun told my sister that science and religion don't mix.  They had science books sitting on a shelf that they never used.  I got science from science fiction books that supplied clues about what to research and went into electrical engineering.

But today they call junk like Hyperion science fiction when it is just decent fantasy.

But now kids can do plenty of sophisticated stuff without the so called schools.

There is material available for free now and we have cheap computers to access it.

All Day September  by Roger Kuykendall
All Day September - Roger Kuykendall | Feedbooks

THE YEAR WHEN STARDUST FELL by Raymond F. Jones 
Winston Science Fiction: Synopsis for THE YEAR WHEN STARDUST FELL by Raymond F. Jones

The Fourth R : George O. Smith
"The Fourth R" by Smith George Oliver Free Download. The book is added by David (Idaho) Read online books at OnRead.com.

Teach Yourself Electricity and Electronics, by Stan Gibilisco
Teach Yourself Electricity and Electronics, Fourth Edition : McGraw-Hill Professional Online Book Store

Celestia: space simulation of the universe in 3D
Celestia: Home

GeoGebra: Interactive graphics, algebra and spreadsheet
GeoGebra

Solve Elec: draw and analyze electrical circuits
Solve Elec - Educational software

Logisim: Digital logic circuit simulator
Logisim | Download Logisim software for free at SourceForge.net

A netbook that can run that stuff is less than $400.  Doesn't one course at an engineering school cost more than that.  I wish someone had given me a book like Gibilisco's when I was in 7th grade.

Oh yeah, The Art of Electronics by Horowitz and Hill
Download The Art of Electronics &#8211; Horowitz & Hill | books download

I wonder if our educators even want to figure out what can really be done with this technology.  We need to raise the level of scientific knowledge of the average American.

psik


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## rdean (Jun 17, 2011)

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Not so much anymore.


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## rdean (Jun 17, 2011)

psikeyhackr said:


> How does anybody expect to produce engineers when grade school graduates don't have a clue about science?  A nun told my sister that science and religion don't mix.  They had science books sitting on a shelf that they never used.  I got science from science fiction books that supplied clues about what to research and went into electrical engineering.
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> But today they call junk like Hyperion science fiction when it is just decent fantasy.
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How do you do that with the vast majority of Republicans believing in magical creation?  And the Republican leadership racing to defund education and research?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/scien...g-of-value-from-the-science-of-evolution.html


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 17, 2011)

rdean said:


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> > How does anybody expect to produce engineers when grade school graduates don't have a clue about science?  A nun told my sister that science and religion don't mix.  They had science books sitting on a shelf that they never used.  I got science from science fiction books that supplied clues about what to research and went into electrical engineering.
> ...




As for the department of education it not working if it's not working kill it.. Before we had the department of education Children were smarter get rid of the department of education and that will free up some money for paying off obama's debt.


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## rdean (Jun 17, 2011)

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Do you have proof it's not working?  We seemed to be doing pretty well until Bush and the Republicans took over.


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## Samson (Jun 17, 2011)

Sallow said:


> We NEED to build again. And by build, I mean really build. We need to innovate, explore, and create.
> 
> Almost everything that dramatically changed the course of humanity..CAME FROM THIS COUNTRY. THATS THE WAY IT USE TO BE. One of the FOUNDERS of this COUNTRY discovered electricity.
> 
> THIS IS WHY CONSERVATISM IS A FAILURE.



I guess Obama has not shared your desire to "innovate, explore, and create."



Obama's NASA Budget Draws Mixed Reviews | Space.com



> Obama's plan calls for spending a total of $16.4 billion on Constellation between 2011 and 2013, or about *$3.5 billion less than Bush had planned to spend during the same three-year period*




OOOOPs:

Phased Out: Obama's NASA Budget Would Cancel Constellation Moon Program, Privatize Manned Launches: Scientific American

I suppose there is no democratic consituancy on the moon, where they already get free cheese.


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## daveman (Jun 17, 2011)

Samson said:


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Space exploration?  Pffft!  NASA has Muslims to reach out to!

Obama&#8217;s new mission for NASA: Reach out to Muslim world


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## Samson (Jun 17, 2011)

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Now Sallow's REALLY gonna be upset!!


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## daveman (Jun 17, 2011)

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But Sunni will vote Dem!


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## xsited1 (Jun 17, 2011)

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That's true, but I don't see a brain drain in India or China.  We do get their "best and brightest," but they still have many highly educated engineers left and those who come to America don't always stay for long returning to their native land to build companies that compete directly with the US.  Their loyalties are usually not with the US.  Many US companies outsource their IT departments, for example, led by American educated foreigners.  We'll see what happens, but my fear is that the US is fast becoming a shell that will quickly fall apart when these American-educated foreigners (many educated by foreign-born professors in America) decide there are greener pastures elsewhere.  It would be nice if American-born citizens decided to become Scientists and Engineers on their own, but that isn't happening.  Obama's efforts will fail, mainly because he's unqualified at just about everything and knows nothing about the real world.


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## Samson (Jun 17, 2011)

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Well, I must admit, that I, like you, am basing opinion of emperical knowledge.

I cannot conceive that many successful Indian Engineers return to India from the USA: Maybe the ones that cannot find a hawt American Golddigger to marry?


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## xsited1 (Jun 17, 2011)

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I've been friends with numerous Indians and other foreigners who came to America to get advanced degrees.  About half have stayed.  That's not bad.  I hope more stay and America doesn't implode.


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## Samson (Jun 17, 2011)

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Its always good to have friends that can get you a discount on a slurpee, or a Slim Jim.


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## percysunshine (Jun 17, 2011)

I always wanted a magic wand. I could wave it and 'Poof!' there would be 10,000 competent engineers ready to build what ever I wanted them to build...without asking questions.

Of course, if I had a wand like that, I would probably use it to create one realy hot caddy to carry my bag on the golf course.


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## psikeyhackr (Jun 18, 2011)

rdean said:


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> > How does anybody expect to produce engineers when grade school graduates don't have a clue about science?  A nun told my sister that science and religion don't mix.  They had science books sitting on a shelf that they never used.  I got science from science fiction books that supplied clues about what to research and went into electrical engineering.
> ...



We have got cheap computers and the Internet.

Why aren't most concerned parents talking about short circuiting the educational system rather than fixing it.  As a kid I recall trying to find good books among all the crap.  It is really hard when you don't know squat to begin with.

I only learned about this book last year.  I could have been told about it in high school.

The Tyranny of Words by Stuart Chase
Books: Semantics - TIME

I have begun to think there is a significant percentage of people who make a point of not spreading info about good books and advocate crappy ones.

psik


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## Zander (Jun 18, 2011)

It's this years "hope and change" slogan. "Ten thousand engineers' has a nice ring!! 

More style over substance from Obama....


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## Samson (Jun 18, 2011)

psikeyhackr said:


> I have begun to think there is a significant percentage of people who make a point of not spreading info about good books and advocate crappy ones.
> 
> psik



Then you must live under a rock.

Google Amazon.com

Heard of it?


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## Samson (Jun 18, 2011)

Zander said:


> It's this years "hope and change" slogan. "Ten thousand engineers' has a nice ring!!
> 
> More style over substance from Obama....



The "ever thinning viel."

Hope people dont see through it, smoke, and mirrors in 2012.


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## rdean (Jun 18, 2011)

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Why link to an article so old?

Here, try this one:

'Secret' US spaceplane returns after 7-month trip | The Morning Sentinel, Waterville, ME


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## Samson (Jun 18, 2011)

rdean said:


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You probably think you have a point?

Why not relax during the next few pages, and watch what the adults do?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 18, 2011)

percysunshine said:


> I always wanted a magic wand. I could wave it and 'Poof!' there would be 10,000 competent engineers ready to build what ever I wanted them to build...without asking questions.
> 
> Of course, if I had a wand like that, I would probably use it to create one realy hot caddy to carry my bag on the golf course.



Some of you people are making the connection. Each year you will add an additional 10,000 engineers seven years down the road you'll have 70,000 engineers plus  the people who were engineers. I realize some numbers will be lost due to retirement, but you will still have a lot more people trained to be a engineer with no job to go to.

Breaking it down.
1. There will not be enough construction jobs to fill those positions
2. The tax payers will be footing the bill


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jun 18, 2011)

rdean said:


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> Do you have proof it's not working?



You're a fine example that it's not working. I thought liberals were the drum beaters of "America's educational system is not working" Aren't liberals the ones that say our children do not do as wel as other children in other countries? Stop contridicting yourself.




> We seemed to be doing pretty well until Bush and the Republicans took over



The educational system started going down hill long before Bush came along, Some where you must also blame a democrat.


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## Samson (Jun 18, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


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Moreover, Obama is cutting NASA's programs with one hand, and handing the savings to engineering colleges and universities.

With only a background in academia, he can only conceive of education being good: He cannot conceive that EMPLOYMENT IS GOOD.

This is why he will lose the 2012 election.


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## daveman (Jun 18, 2011)

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Yeah, that's cool.  Now, how about you explain Obama gutting NASA's budget?


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## rdean (Jun 18, 2011)

rightwinger said:


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> ...



I think that's a terrible thing to say.  Calling American "stupid".  Shame on you.  They are not stupid.  Clearly, they are fucking "lazy".


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## rdean (Jun 18, 2011)

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Sorry, I couldn't find your link.  Did you forget to post it?


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## daveman (Jun 18, 2011)

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The one Samson posted earlier that you ignored.  Here's another one:

Obama's budget cuts NASA but boosts Metro | Houston & Texas News | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle


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## Samson (Jun 18, 2011)

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You confused the issue when, for some weird reason you brought up Muslims.


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## Greenbeard (Jun 18, 2011)

daveman said:


> Yeah, that's cool.  Now, how about you explain Obama gutting NASA's budget?





> The one Samson posted earlier that you ignored.  Here's another one:
> 
> Obama's budget cuts NASA but boosts Metro | Houston & Texas News | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle



Your link says _"Obama asked Congress to freeze NASA's 2012 budget at the 2010 level of $18.7 billion..."._


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## Samson (Jun 18, 2011)

Sallow said:


> We NEED to build again. And by build, I mean really build. We need to innovate, explore, and create.
> 
> Almost everything that dramatically changed the course of humanity..CAME FROM THIS COUNTRY. THATS THE WAY IT USE TO BE. One of the FOUNDERS of this COUNTRY discovered electricity.
> 
> THIS IS WHY CONSERVATISM IS A FAILURE.



I guess Obama has not shared your desire to "innovate, explore, and create."



Obama's NASA Budget Draws Mixed Reviews | Space.com



> Obama's plan calls for spending a total of $16.4 billion on Constellation between 2011 and 2013, or about *$3.5 billion less than Bush had planned to spend during the same three-year period*




OOOOPs:

Phased Out: Obama's NASA Budget Would Cancel Constellation Moon Program, Privatize Manned Launches: Scientific American

I suppose there is no democratic consituancy on the moon, where they already get free cheese.


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## rdean (Jun 18, 2011)

Greenbeard said:


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Shhhh, they didn't read that part.


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## daveman (Jun 18, 2011)

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Unless there are Muslims in space, it's not really a legitimate mission  for a space agency.


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## daveman (Jun 18, 2011)

Greenbeard said:


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And as we learned during the Bush Administration, not increasing a budget, or giving a less-than-requested increase, is exactly the same as cutting it.


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## daveman (Jun 18, 2011)

rdean said:


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I think it's interesting that Bush wanted to spend more money on a scientific agency than Obama.

How do you explain that, Dean?  "Bush was in the pocket of BIGSPACE!!"?


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## Big Fitz (Jun 18, 2011)

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> > I was listening to the news on my way home the other day, and they were doing a segment on an obama speech, and obama wanting to start a program to teach 10,000 new Engineers a Year. I have ponder this since I heard it. Where does he plan to place all those new engineers? There will have to be enough new jobs for these highly trained people to have work. The you must have someone with the need to start a new project Then you must have new contractions jobs and people to do the job.
> ...


Let's hear it for the 1-B Visas.  Chandra and Pakresh from Bangladesh are on their way to work in America for 10 years then retire for life in their native lands with lots of wealth.  Jobs Americans CAN'T do.


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## oldsalt (Jun 18, 2011)

Big Fitz said:


> xsited1 said:
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> > bigrebnc1775 said:
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Jobs Americans can't do, only when they possess your mentality.


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## daveman (Jun 18, 2011)

oldsalt said:


> Big Fitz said:
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> > xsited1 said:
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Americans can't do the jobs because the education system has failed them.


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## uscitizen (Jun 18, 2011)

Why do we need engineers?  Everyone just play the market and make their living that way.
Why do we actually need to produce anything except consumers?


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## psikeyhackr (Jun 18, 2011)

Samson said:


> psikeyhackr said:
> 
> 
> > I have begun to think there is a significant percentage of people who make a point of not spreading info about good books and advocate crappy ones.
> ...



So there are lots of crappy books that you can't find the good books among.

psik


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## Big Fitz (Jun 18, 2011)

oldsalt said:


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Right Conhog.


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## Samson (Jun 18, 2011)

psikeyhackr said:


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Obviously you've never heard the saying:

_It's better to say nothing and keep us wondering if you are an idiot, than to post and remove all doubt_.


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## Samson (Jun 18, 2011)

daveman said:


> oldsalt said:
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Nonsense: Many very successful citizens graduate from our education system(s).


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## Samson (Jun 18, 2011)

uscitizen said:


> Why do we need engineers?  Everyone just play the market and make their living that way.
> Why do we actually need to produce anything except consumers?



Why not just produce heavy-handed sarcasm?


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## daveman (Jun 18, 2011)

Samson said:


> daveman said:
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I submit they're successful in spite of our education system.


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## Samson (Jun 18, 2011)

daveman said:


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Compared to where?


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## daveman (Jun 18, 2011)

Samson said:


> daveman said:
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Compared to other graduates of our education system.


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## Samson (Jun 18, 2011)

daveman said:


> Samson said:
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I think you've certainly illustrated your point.


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## daveman (Jun 19, 2011)

Samson said:


> daveman said:
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It's really quite simple.  

Our education system is clearly not preparing people for certain careers.  Liberal arts majors, yeah.  The squishy stuff.  

The hard science?  Not as much as it used to.  The people who succeed in these areas do so because of the extra time and effort they put in.  They seek out what the schools have not given them.

But as long as everyone _feels good about themselves_ and _gets a medal for participating_, some folks don't see a problem.


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## Samson (Jun 19, 2011)

daveman said:


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I thought US public schools had AP programs, Gifted and Talented programs, College Prep classes.

I suppose I need to listen to Limbaugh more to know what's REALLY going on....


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## Big Fitz (Jun 19, 2011)

Samson said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
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> > Why do we need engineers?  Everyone just play the market and make their living that way.
> ...


There's no good money in producing that.  Believe me, I've tried.


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## daveman (Jun 19, 2011)

Samson said:


> daveman said:
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Yeah, I don't listen to him either.

Have you seen school performance stats?  "Throw more money at it!!!" has failed.  For decades, now.


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## Samson (Jun 19, 2011)

daveman said:


> Samson said:
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You seem to have some agenda other than the one stated: Why you constantly jump track is a mystery to me, but school performance stats do not indicate that there's nobody learning anything in public schools. Nor do they indicate that there are no AP Physics and Chemistry courses being offered. Indeed in 2003:
http://faculty.trinityvalleyschool.org/hoseltom/handouts/AP Physics B & C Course Description.pdf


> Last year* more than three quarters of a million high school students *benefited from the opportunity of studying in AP courses and then taking the
> challenging AP Exams. These students experienced the power of learning
> as it comes alive in the classroom, as well as the practical benefits of earning
> college credit and placement while still in high school.


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## daveman (Jun 19, 2011)

Samson said:


> daveman said:
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Ummm...no, my position has been consistent.


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## psikeyhackr (Jun 19, 2011)

Samson said:


> psikeyhackr said:
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I have heard.  It is not my fault that you expect everyone to give a damn what you think.  The majority of books are crap and one of the problems with trying to learn is having to sort through so much crap.

I worked for IBM and never encountered the term von Neumann machine even though IBM hired John von Neumann as a consultant in 1952.  We have lots of pseudo-intellectuals spreading BS that helps them look smart but keeps other people confused.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dg96tefnEU]YouTube - &#x202a;SF & von Neumann machine basics&#x202c;&rlm;[/ame]

*The Computer Industry Is Making Us Crazy : Uncertain Principles*

I notice that you haven't indicated any specific books relating to engineering but I did and I provided links to software.

I am not in the EDUCATION BUSINESS.

psik


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## midcan5 (Jun 20, 2011)

Any Clifford Stoll fans out there? His critique of computers is interesting. But as a manager I have had engineering grads work with and for me and most are quite good. Our work crosses all talents and knowledge, actually all work does, as anyone who has lived for a bit knows diversity of talent works better than rigid automatons. Today when you call for tech support and get an Asia Indian you can bet that person has more education than most Americans and is usually an engineering grad. You can make your own judgement on whether that matters. But Obama is right here as usual, and the right wing can only use its narrow filter to see nothing. Nothing appeals to them it seems. 

Clifford Stoll on ... everything | Video on TED.com


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## psikeyhackr (Jun 20, 2011)

midcan5 said:


> Any Clifford Stoll fans out there? His critique of computers is interesting.



Yeah, I bought and read his first book about catching the computer spy that smoked Benson-Hedges.  He's funny as hell.

Here is another criticism:  The Computer Industry Is Making Us Crazy
http://scienceblogs.com/principles/2010/02/the_computer_industry_is_makin.php

All of these versions of Windows 7 is just part of Macro$cams marketing strategy.  A few weeks ago a friend told me the minimum version actually installs everything of the higher versions an upgrade is just a matter of unlocking the features.  So if you never upgrade that unused hunk is wasting your hard drive space.  The technology is manipulated for the money.  

I just think that we need more science stimulation in grade school.  I just happen to think that good science fiction makes science more interesting than most science teachers.

They have to teach grade school kids to read anyway so why not use SF?  One strange thing was the spelling books we had that made us memorize how to spell words we never used but I encountered words in my books that were far more interesting that they never asked about.  They didn't tell us that stars ran on fusion or asked us how to spell it.

Try asking the average American about the difference between fission and fusion.  I heard some radio program talking about the fusion reactors at Fukushima.   

psik


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