# Harvard Professor Jailed; Officer Is Accused of Bias



## manifold (Jul 21, 2009)

Interesting story:  Warning this NY Times article may contain traces of bias.



> CAMBRIDGE, Mass.  Colleagues of Henry Louis Gates Jr., Harvards most prominent scholar of African-American history, are accusing the police here of racism after he was arrested at his home last week by an officer investigating a report of a robbery in progress.
> 
> Professor Gates, who has taught at Harvard for nearly two decades, arrived home on Thursday from a trip to China to find his front door jammed, said Charles J. Ogletree, a law professor at Harvard who is representing him.
> 
> ...


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## manifold (Jul 21, 2009)

The more I read about this incident the more I think Gates was trying to get arrested.  Nothing like a little street cred to boost enrollment in his African-American history course(s).  What a douche.


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## AllieBaba (Jul 21, 2009)

I think so too.


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## Ravi (Jul 21, 2009)

If it were Texas the neighbors could have shot him dead without any real danger of being arrested.


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## Coloradomtnman (Jul 21, 2009)

From the AP:

The Associated Press: Black scholar&#39;s arrest raises profiling questions



> BOSTON  Supporters of a prominent Harvard University black scholar who was arrested at his own home by police responding to a report of a break-in say he is the victim of racial profiling.
> 
> Henry Louis Gates Jr. had forced his way through the front door of his home because it was jammed, his lawyer said Monday.
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> Cambridge police say they responded to the well-maintained two-story home near campus after a woman reported seeing "two black males with backpacks on the porch," with one "wedging his shoulder into the door as if he was trying to force entry."



Yep, racism is over in America, _especially_ institutionalized racism.  Time to get rid of Affirmative Action...


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## PoliticalChic (Jul 21, 2009)

manifold said:


> The more I read about this incident the more I think Gates was trying to get arrested.  Nothing like a little street cred to boost enrollment in his African-American history course(s).  What a douche.



Yes and yes. 

Several points here.

1) Your perception may be right on. Seems like it could have been handled by the professor in a more subtle manner. But it is very possible that  getting arrested is almost as good as getting an article published.

2) If you read the article in the Boston Globe, I didn't notice the reporting that the police state that he wouldn't identify himself. But if you read the article in the Seattle Times, :
" According to the police report, Gates initially refused to show identification." Education | Was arrest of Harvard scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. an act of racism? | Seattle Times Newspaper) (The NYTimes did include this as "He showed his drivers license and Harvard identification card,")

3) Also, it is entirely possible that the professor was simply having an 'Al Sharpton' moment, as he does not have a history, no pun intended, of shouting 'racism.' In fact, this professor was one of those who insists that it is not the total province of blacks to teach and research black history.

4) In summary, the racism aspect appears to be more the direction sought by the paper than the professor.


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## manifold (Jul 21, 2009)

Don't forget that he was ultimately arrested for disorderly conduct.  The officer was leaving.  Yes, LEAVING.  Gates followed him to his cruiser berating him and accusing him of racism.  The officer warned him that he was becoming disorderly and that he would arrest him if he didn't calm down.  He didn't, the officer followed through on his warning.  All signs point to Gates wanting to be arrested.


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## strollingbones (Jul 21, 2009)

o hold the fuck up..when is the last time a cop came to your house and ask you for id....well?  i would not have been hostile as this but i would have refused to show my id in my own fucking home without a warrent...and i would have told the cop to get the fuck off my land...unless it was one of them i know...but i have a right to my damn privacy...if they got a warrent ....serve the fucker...if not..get the fuck out of my face and off my land.


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## manifold (Jul 21, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> o hold the fuck up..when is the last time a cop came to your house and ask you for id....well?  i would not have been hostile as this but i would have refused to show my id in my own fucking home without a warrent...and i would have told the cop to get the fuck off my land...unless it was one of them i know...but i have a right to my damn privacy...if they got a warrent ....serve the fucker...if not..get the fuck out of my face and off my land.



So you don't believe in the concept of probable cause?


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## strollingbones (Jul 21, 2009)

no...you come on my land you best have a fucking warrent..simple as that....if i follow you out to a public road..then the game changes...but on my land....i am the mistress...


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## RetiredGySgt (Jul 21, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> o hold the fuck up..when is the last time a cop came to your house and ask you for id....well?  i would not have been hostile as this but i would have refused to show my id in my own fucking home without a warrent...and i would have told the cop to get the fuck off my land...unless it was one of them i know...but i have a right to my damn privacy...if they got a warrent ....serve the fucker...if not..get the fuck out of my face and off my land.



And as the situation is presented your refusal would lead to your arrest. Why? because the cop had no way to know you lived there unless you showed him ID. A Neighbor called it in when she saw 2 men obviously breaking in through the door.

Personally I would be glad my neighbor gave a fuck and called it in. And I would be appreciative that the cops came out to investigate a possible break in at my home.


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## Shogun (Jul 21, 2009)

indeed.  because it's a rarity to bust a black man breaking into a house.  Second comings of the messiah happens more often.


i've read Gates's memoir "Colored People".  It's a good read.  I recommend it.




but, that doesn't belay that officers seeing anyone appear to break into a house should just drive away on the offchance that it's a professor thather than a burglar.


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## strollingbones (Jul 21, 2009)

no one can see my house...and i first thought is not calling the cops...if we thought someone was forcing their way into a home....we would go there first....we know our neighbors....seems these people didnt know their own neighbors.....things are different in the city....i still would not show id...i have lived in the same house for 28 years...police have been here one time.


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## strollingbones (Jul 21, 2009)

they were called by the neighbors fighting now on manie's thread on this


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## Againsheila (Jul 21, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> o hold the fuck up..when is the last time a cop came to your house and ask you for id....well?  i would not have been hostile as this but i would have refused to show my id in my own fucking home without a warrent...and i would have told the cop to get the fuck off my land...unless it was one of them i know...but i have a right to my damn privacy...if they got a warrent ....serve the fucker...if not..get the fuck out of my face and off my land.



Several years ago, a young lady was murdered at our local highschool.  We had a car that was the type that was reported as leaving the scene.  The cops showed up an our door.  I showed them my driver's license, and anything else they asked for.  I wanted that murderer caught probably more than they did. 

You have a right to your privacy, but if someone says they saw you break into your own home, the cops have a right to investigate and make sure you are who you say you are.  

The wonder here is that the first article I read said it was a "neighbor" that reported the break in.  Why doesn't the professor get out and meet his neighbors so that this doesn't happen?  Or perhaps, he just doesn't associate with whites?


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## William Joyce (Jul 21, 2009)

Coloradomtnman said:


> Yep, racism is over in America, _especially_ institutionalized racism.  Time to get rid of Affirmative Action...



Wouldn't a black professor at Harvard and a white working-class cop making barely enough to survive...

BE affirmative action incarnate?


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## AkronGuy (Jul 21, 2009)

Sounds like another bs cry of racism.


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## manifold (Jul 21, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> they were called by the neighbors fighting now on manie's thread on this


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## Ravi (Jul 21, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> o hold the fuck up..when is the last time a cop came to your house and ask you for id....well?  i would not have been hostile as this but i would have refused to show my id in my own fucking home without a warrent...and i would have told the cop to get the fuck off my land...unless it was one of them i know...but i have a right to my damn privacy...if they got a warrent ....serve the fucker...if not..get the fuck out of my face and off my land.


I would have been pretty angry if this happened to me as well. But then again, I'm not black so I guess I'd have a right to be angry. 

It's kind of weird that neighbors don't recognize each other.


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## Neser Boha (Jul 21, 2009)

Let's not forget he was just returning from a long-as-fuck trip from China and had a hard time opening his apartment door... and then a dick of a cop shows up and asks him to prove that he really lives there... Another issue was that according to the Professor, the cop refused to identify himself...  I know how dickish cops can be, I myself had a bit of an argument with one about his attitude towards me... 

So let's not all just take the cop's side... hm?


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## Shogun (Jul 21, 2009)

Nesser, would you still be as quick to draw a conclusion were it YOUR house that cops refused to investigate after an accusation of racism?  It's not like Gates was dragged out of his house and lynched.  he is just as complicit as the cops MAY have been.  I've seen dickhead cops too but that doesn't mean that you won't appreciate them doing their jobs when, statistically, it really IS a burglary than a misunderstanding.  Would you be so inclined to hop on a side were it black cops arresting a white home owner?  If not, then why.


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## Lonestar_logic (Jul 21, 2009)

RetiredGySgt said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> > o hold the fuck up..when is the last time a cop came to your house and ask you for id....well?  i would not have been hostile as this but i would have refused to show my id in my own fucking home without a warrent...and i would have told the cop to get the fuck off my land...unless it was one of them i know...but i have a right to my damn privacy...if they got a warrent ....serve the fucker...if not..get the fuck out of my face and off my land.
> ...



Better yet, have a neighbor like Joe Horn.

Joe Horn shooting controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Lonestar_logic (Jul 21, 2009)

Neser Boha said:


> Let's not forget he was just returning from a long-as-fuck trip from China and had a hard time opening his apartment door... and then a dick of a cop shows up and asks him to prove that he really lives there... Another issue was that according to the Professor, the cop refused to identify himself...  I know how dickish cops can be, I myself had a bit of an argument with one about his attitude towards me...
> 
> So let's not all just take the cop's side... hm?



The cop refused to ID himself? I guess the name tag and badge didn't help.


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## xotoxi (Jul 21, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> Several years ago, a young lady was murdered at our local highschool. We had a car that was the type that was reported as leaving the scene. The cops showed up an our door. I showed them my driver's license, and anything else they asked for. I wanted that murderer caught probably more than they did.


 
Obviously you wanted the murderer caught.  He was giving your car a bad name.


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## Gurdari (Jul 21, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> The wonder here is that the first article I read said it was a "neighbor" that reported the break in.  Why doesn't the professor get out and meet his neighbors so that this doesn't happen?  Or perhaps, he just doesn't associate with whites?



Haha, nice implication... his fault for not being neighborly, huh?

Love it.


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## Gurdari (Jul 21, 2009)

manifold said:


> The more I read about this incident the more I think Gates was trying to get arrested.  Nothing like a little street cred to boost enrollment in his African-American history course(s).  What a douche.



Awesome, you must be correct - who _wouldn't_ want this to happen, especially some 'street cred' craving Harvard professor. They are always f*cking with cops.
Good thing the cop didn't just leave, otherwise nothing would have happened.


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## Gurdari (Jul 21, 2009)

AkronGuy said:


> Sounds like another bs cry of racism.



Do a lot of things sound like that to you...?
What is your evaulation method? Or do you not need one? (because you just 'know')


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## Neser Boha (Jul 21, 2009)

Shogun said:


> Nesser, would you still be as quick to draw a conclusion were it YOUR house that cops refused to investigate after an accusation of racism?  It's not like Gates was dragged out of his house and lynched.  he is just as complicit as the cops MAY have been.  I've seen dickhead cops too but that doesn't mean that you won't appreciate them doing their jobs when, statistically, it really IS a burglary than a misunderstanding.  Would you be so inclined to hop on a side were it black cops arresting a white home owner?  If not, then why.



I'm just not liking how everyone in this thread is quickly and without a doubt jumping on the 'yet another bullshit racism accusation' bandwagon... that's all.


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## Lonestar_logic (Jul 21, 2009)

Neser Boha said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> > Nesser, would you still be as quick to draw a conclusion were it YOUR house that cops refused to investigate after an accusation of racism?  It's not like Gates was dragged out of his house and lynched.  he is just as complicit as the cops MAY have been.  I've seen dickhead cops too but that doesn't mean that you won't appreciate them doing their jobs when, statistically, it really IS a burglary than a misunderstanding.  Would you be so inclined to hop on a side were it black cops arresting a white home owner?  If not, then why.
> ...



Why did you jump on the bandwagon?


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## Ravi (Jul 21, 2009)

Neser Boha said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> > Nesser, would you still be as quick to draw a conclusion were it YOUR house that cops refused to investigate after an accusation of racism?  It's not like Gates was dragged out of his house and lynched.  he is just as complicit as the cops MAY have been.  I've seen dickhead cops too but that doesn't mean that you won't appreciate them doing their jobs when, statistically, it really IS a burglary than a misunderstanding.  Would you be so inclined to hop on a side were it black cops arresting a white home owner?  If not, then why.
> ...


It's funny, I read a lot of threads where the motives of black people are ascribed to their color. This is one of them.


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## Neser Boha (Jul 21, 2009)

Lonestar_logic said:


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Huh?


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## manifold (Jul 21, 2009)

Gurdari said:


> manifold said:
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> > The more I read about this incident the more I think Gates was trying to get arrested.  Nothing like a little street cred to boost enrollment in his African-American history course(s).  What a douche.
> ...



The officer was leaving.  And yes, had Gates kept is trap shut at that point, nothing would have happened.


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## Lonestar_logic (Jul 21, 2009)

Neser Boha said:


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Kick a hog in its ass and it'll say "huh".


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## del (Jul 21, 2009)

charges have been dropped. assholes come in all colors; gates happens to be a black one. gotta love the"do you know who i am?" aspect of this, though. what a  maumauing fuckwit. 


"A Cambridge police report described what followed as the police sergeant stood at Gatess door, demanded identification, and radioed for assistance from Harvard University police when Gates presented him with a Harvard ID. Gates became visibly upset, according to the report, when the officer said he was responding to a report of a break-in. Why," Gates asked, according to the report, "because Im a black man in America?

*Gates then turned to me and told me that I had no idea who I was messing with and that I had not heard the last of it,* the report said. While I was led to believe that Gates was lawfully in the residence, I was quite surprised and confused with the behavior he exhibited toward me.

*When the officer repeatedly told Gates he would speak with him outside, the normally mild-mannered professor shouted, Ya, Ill speak with your mama outside, according to the report.*
Gates was arrested after exhibiting loud and tumultuous behavior toward the officer who questioned him, the report said. He was led away in handcuffs. "

Charges to be dropped against Harvard professor - Local News Updates - The Boston Globe


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## Ravi (Jul 21, 2009)

del said:


> charges have been dropped. assholes come in all colors; gates happens to be a black one. gotta love the"do you know who i am?" aspect of this, though. what a  maumauing fuckwit.
> 
> 
> "A Cambridge police report described what followed as the police sergeant stood at Gatess door, demanded identification, and radioed for assistance from Harvard University police when Gates presented him with a Harvard ID. Gates became visibly upset, according to the report, when the officer said he was responding to a report of a break-in. Why," Gates asked, according to the report, "because Im a black man in America?
> ...


Unless he has a history of playing the race card I'd say that his anger at the police got the better of him. I'd probably have reacted in a similar manner.


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## Shogun (Jul 21, 2009)

Neser Boha said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> > Nesser, would you still be as quick to draw a conclusion were it YOUR house that cops refused to investigate after an accusation of racism?  It's not like Gates was dragged out of his house and lynched.  he is just as complicit as the cops MAY have been.  I've seen dickhead cops too but that doesn't mean that you won't appreciate them doing their jobs when, statistically, it really IS a burglary than a misunderstanding.  Would you be so inclined to hop on a side were it black cops arresting a white home owner?  If not, then why.
> ...



Oh I hear ya.. But, it's kind of reflexive when Gates reflexivly assumed racism.  Again, he is not doing himself any favors.  I'd like to see how this cookie crumbles and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt (he writes a good memoir, you should check it out) but... just as people are leaping to defend the cops so to have people lept to defend Gates when, to be honest, the cops were really only dong their job and would ahve asked ANYONE regardless of ethnicity for ID. 

whats more, I'd bet anything that Gates lives in a gated comunity anyway.  Which, is probably why there were cops there in the first place who were so quick to check.  If this turns out to be the case then this will be a double layer of irony on all six sides of this box.


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## del (Jul 21, 2009)

Ravi said:


> del said:
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> 
> > charges have been dropped. assholes come in all colors; gates happens to be a black one. gotta love the"do you know who i am?" aspect of this, though. what a  maumauing fuckwit.
> ...



really? i'd be pretty happy that the cops checked up to make sure everything was okay. from what i have read, the cop wasn't out of line, IMO. maybe gates was just cranky that day, but it seems to me the cop gave him more than one opportunity to calm down, and gates chose not to. fuck with the bull you get the horn

 it'd be interesting to hear what the cabbie has to say about the whole thing. i doubt we will, though.


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## chanel (Jul 21, 2009)

PoliticalChic said:


> manifold said:
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> > The more I read about this incident the more I think Gates was trying to get arrested.  Nothing like a little street cred to boost enrollment in his African-American history course(s).  What a douche.
> ...



I thought the exact same thing.  Anyone remember the Columbia "noose" professor? Complete fabrication to deflect a plagiarism charge against her.  

I just can't imagine the cop trumping up charges that he knew would be challenged.  Def. more to this story...


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## Neser Boha (Jul 21, 2009)

Lonestar_logic said:


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Your question simply didn't make any sense to me... is all.


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## Ravi (Jul 21, 2009)

del said:


> Ravi said:
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I don't think we will either. The story I read said the cops didn't show up until after the cabbie was gone and Gates was inside his home.


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## del (Jul 21, 2009)

Ravi said:


> del said:
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you're right, my mistake. i still think the cop was just doing his job and gates overreacted badly.


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## Ravi (Jul 21, 2009)

del said:


> Ravi said:
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So if a cop knocks on your door and starts demanding ID you wouldn't be a bit put out?


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## Againsheila (Jul 21, 2009)

Gurdari said:


> Againsheila said:
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> > The wonder here is that the first article I read said it was a "neighbor" that reported the break in.  Why doesn't the professor get out and meet his neighbors so that this doesn't happen?  Or perhaps, he just doesn't associate with whites?
> ...



No, but HAD he been more neighborly, it wouldn't have happened.


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## Valerie (Jul 21, 2009)

Lonestar_logic said:


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That's funny, my father use to say something similar to me in order to get me to be more articulate and verbose.  "Kick an old horse in the fanny and you get _huh_! "  



Seems to me the man was overly defensive toward the police officer and he got the same end result that anyone else would have got under the circumstances.


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## del (Jul 21, 2009)

Ravi said:


> del said:
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if the cop told me that he was investigating a report of a break in at my house?

no, why would i? 
it's not as thought the cop just randomly showed up at his house to bust his balls-there was a report of a possible break in and the cop was investigating it. simply asking for my ID doesn't sound that outrageous to me.


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## Valerie (Jul 21, 2009)

Ravi said:


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If one of my neighbors saw me climbing through my bathroom window, which has actually happened  , I would be thankful they were watching out for my property and politely explain the situation to the officer who arrived at the scene due to my neighbor's call.

To clarify, my neighbor did not call the police since she recognized it was only me.  

Incidentally I had a similar circumstance as a ten year old when a neighbor called the police because I was climbing on the roof of the school.  Once I explained to the officer that I was just playing "Swat Team" with my friends I was off the hook for attempted burglary.


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## Ravi (Jul 21, 2009)

del said:


> Ravi said:
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It's not clear to me that the police told them they were investigating a break in. It sounds from the story posted that they asked him to step outside and show his id.


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## manifold (Jul 21, 2009)

Ravi said:


> So if a cop knocks on your door and starts demanding ID you wouldn't be a bit put out?



If I had just broken open the door in broad daylight I wouldn't be put out at all.


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## William Joyce (Jul 21, 2009)

Gurdari said:


> AkronGuy said:
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> > Sounds like another bs cry of racism.
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Yeah... kind of like how blacks always just "know" something is "racism"!


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## Ravi (Jul 21, 2009)

Valerie said:


> Ravi said:
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I agree but from the story it doesn't sound like the guy knew anyone called the cops on him.


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

Ravi said:


> If it were Texas the neighbors could have shot him dead without any real danger of being arrested.


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## Valerie (Jul 21, 2009)

Ravi said:


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From the article in the OP:



> But in the report, Sergeant Crowley said that as *he told Professor Gates he was investigating a possible break-in*, Professor Gates exclaimed, &#8220;Why, because I&#8217;m a black man in America?&#8221; and accused the sergeant of racism.


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## del (Jul 21, 2009)

Ravi said:


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that's not how i read it. 
there's really not much point in going around this mulberry bush- gates acted like an asshole, IMO, got taken down to the station house and the charges were subsequently dropped. *shrug*


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

manifold said:


> The more I read about this incident the more I think Gates was trying to get arrested.  Nothing like a little street cred to boost enrollment in his African-American history course(s).  What a douche.


This is the guy who sympathies with guys who beat up transvestites who give them blow jobs but who has no concept of what it means to come home, find your house broken into, and the police off on the wrong track?


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## Ravi (Jul 21, 2009)

Valerie said:


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Oh, missed that. Still, I can understand where he'd be pissed off. I never willingly open my door to the police.


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

PoliticalChic said:


> manifold said:
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> > The more I read about this incident the more I think Gates was trying to get arrested.  Nothing like a little street cred to boost enrollment in his African-American history course(s).  What a douche.
> ...



Gates is also one of those who considers race to be a social construct.
I personally think may have more to do with a class than race. Gates is used to being treated with deference, being a prominent professor and well known intellectual. 
The police officer is most likely just a working class guy.


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## manifold (Jul 21, 2009)

Anguille said:


> manifold said:
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> > The more I read about this incident the more I think Gates was trying to get arrested.  Nothing like a little street cred to boost enrollment in his African-American history course(s).  What a douche.
> ...




More incoherent, angry jibberish from an emotional anguille.  Ho hum.


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## Shogun (Jul 21, 2009)

Ravi said:


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after having come back from a long trip?  fuck no.  I'd be glad that I lived in a good neighborhood where my house wuld be less likely to become another burglar statistic.


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

Lonestar_logic said:


> Neser Boha said:
> 
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> > Let's not forget he was just returning from a long-as-fuck trip from China and had a hard time opening his apartment door... and then a dick of a cop shows up and asks him to prove that he really lives there... Another issue was that according to the Professor, the cop refused to identify himself...  I know how dickish cops can be, I myself had a bit of an argument with one about his attitude towards me...
> ...


My boyfriend and I were harrassed by an off duty cop once. We asked to see ID. That put an end to his misbehavior.


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

del said:


> charges have been dropped. assholes come in all colors; gates happens to be a black one. gotta love the"do you know who i am?" aspect of this, though. what a  maumauing fuckwit.
> 
> 
> "A Cambridge police report described what followed as the police sergeant stood at Gatess door, demanded identification, and radioed for assistance from Harvard University police when Gates presented him with a Harvard ID. Gates became visibly upset, according to the report, when the officer said he was responding to a report of a break-in. Why," Gates asked, according to the report, "because Im a black man in America?
> ...


Doesn't surprise me. Black or white, famous people sometimes have an inflated view of their importance.


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

Shogun said:


> I'd bet anything that Gates lives in a gated comunity anyway. .


He doesn't.


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## Shogun (Jul 21, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Shogun said:
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and you know this....


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

manifold said:


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  Methinks mani is peeved.


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## Lonestar_logic (Jul 21, 2009)

Neser Boha said:


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It seemed you were accusing some of jumping on the "accusatory bandwagon".  Which seemed hypocritical.


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

Shogun said:


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I know where he lives.


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## del (Jul 21, 2009)

Shogun said:


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she lives in the area, as do i, and she's right.

not many gated communities in boston/cambridge in general


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## manifold (Jul 21, 2009)

Angry-eel said:
			
		

> It really FUCKING pisses me off that manifold is so much smarter than me and I don't care if it's nature or nurture, I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!



Settle down Beavis, settle down.


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

manifold said:


> Angry-eel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 you know I'd rep you for that if I could.


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## Valerie (Jul 21, 2009)

manifold said:


> Angry-eel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





  This is going down on your permanent record!!!


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## Valerie (Jul 21, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...




He had a right to refuse entry, sure...But the man could have simply been polite and answer the officer's questions at the door, show his ID, have a good laugh, and be done with it.

Instead, he got overly defensive and made false accusations against an officer who was simply doing his job, which is why he ended up in handcuffs for disorderly conduct.


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## Ravi (Jul 21, 2009)

manifold said:


> No matter how hard I try I can't help copying Ravi. Maybe I'll be the lucky one to get that infraction, bitch!


heh


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## Ravi (Jul 21, 2009)

Valerie said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Valerie said:
> ...


Yes, I get it, Val. The po-lice are always right and must be obeyed.


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## manifold (Jul 21, 2009)

Valerie said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > Angry-eel said:
> ...



My permanent record of witty repartee?


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## Valerie (Jul 21, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...




Oh what, as opposed to people who behave as if they're above the law are always right?


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## Ravi (Jul 21, 2009)

Valerie said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Valerie said:
> ...


In my fantasy world if you aren't doing anything wrong then the police shouldn't harass you.


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## manifold (Jul 21, 2009)

Ravi said:


> In my fantasy world if you aren't doing anything wrong then the police shouldn't harass you.





Personally, I don't think the police should be _harassing_ anyone.

And based on what I've read on this story, the police officer certainly was not harassing Gates.


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

Okay, if it was me, I would have been a little pissed and upset, seeing as my house had just been broken into, I might even have gotten more upset if the cop refused to show ID. 
BUT ... in the best interest of attending to the larger issue, that my house had been burglarized, I would have kept a lid on it and cooperated with the cop and brought up any charges of racism or incompetence or whatever, later on. 

He had just got off a long flight from China, he blew his top. I'm glad the charges were dropped. If the eminent professor were to admit his behavior warranted the cop having to go through with what he warned him he would do, my respect for Gates would be restored.


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## manifold (Jul 21, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Okay, if it was me, I would have been a little pissed and upset, seeing as my house had just been broken into, I might even have gotten more upset if the cop refused to show ID.
> BUT ... in the best interest of attending to the larger issue, that my house had been burglarized, I would have kept a lid on it and cooperated with the cop and brought up any charges of racism or incompetence or whatever, later on.
> 
> He had just got off a long flight from China, he blew his top. I'm glad the charges were dropped. If the eminent professor were to admit his behavior warranted the cop having to go through with what he warned him he would do, my respect for Gates would be restored.



Where are you pulling this crap from that his house had just been burglarized?


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## Valerie (Jul 21, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...




The officer was answering the call of a possible break-in, not exactly "harassment".  




> *
> 
> ... had been inside for a few minutes when Sgt. James Crowley of the Cambridge Police Department appeared at his door and asked him to step outside.
> 
> ...


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

manifold said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, if it was me, I would have been a little pissed and upset, seeing as my house had just been broken into, I might even have gotten more upset if the cop refused to show ID.
> ...


Just an assumption. His doors had been busted open. Don't know if he was but wouldn't that be your first thought if you came home and saw your doors busted open? I'm pretty sure that's what was on his mind. It's not clear if he actually was.


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## manifold (Jul 21, 2009)

Raving Marxist said:
			
		

> I'm actually too stupid to copy manifold's example correctly and lampoon the screen-name in my fake quote, thereby not running afoul of the rules. But that's ok, maybe I'll earn some street cred with the noob trolls after I post my infraction notice.



wow, you sure are one badass mofo.


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## del (Jul 21, 2009)

Anguille said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...



um, he asked the cabbie to help him because the door was stuck. the neighbor saw two guys hammering on the door and called the cops-there was no break in.


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## manifold (Jul 21, 2009)

Anguille said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...





He busted the door open himself you arturd! 

Glad to see you had all sorts of opinions to offer without bothering to read the story.


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

del said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > manifold said:
> ...


I misread the story. So now he has less of an excuse for having lost his temper.


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

manifold said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > manifold said:
> ...



Glad I was able to make your day, weenie.


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## Shogun (Jul 21, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...



creepy


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

I baked him a pie once too.



Watch out!!


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## Lonestar_logic (Jul 21, 2009)

Valerie said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> > Neser Boha said:
> ...



That's what I'd tell my kids when they'd answer me with 'huh" and it's what my father told me under the same circumstances. Now I hear my children telling their children the same thing.


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## Diuretic (Jul 21, 2009)

Gates is an ungrateful bastard.


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## Shogun (Jul 21, 2009)

Anguille said:


> I baked him a pie once too.
> 
> 
> 
> Watch out!!



damn girl.. you get AROUND!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN7Xs9WVNBU[/ame]


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## Bass v 2.0 (Jul 21, 2009)

manifold said:


> The more I read about this incident the more I think Gates was trying to get arrested.  Nothing like a little street cred to boost enrollment in his African-American history course(s).  What a douche.



Mani again padding his credentials as the King Retard of USMB. next comes Shogun with his racist stupidity basically rationalizing the behavior of the police, how about somebody arrest him for forcing his way into his own house?


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## Diuretic (Jul 21, 2009)

Charlie Bass said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > The more I read about this incident the more I think Gates was trying to get arrested.  Nothing like a little street cred to boost enrollment in his African-American history course(s).  What a douche.
> ...



Was he arrested for forcing his way into his own house?  I thought the police were there to find out what was going on and he went off at them.  He was arrested for carrying on like a two-bob watch outside, if I have read the various reports correctly.


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## del (Jul 21, 2009)

Diuretic said:


> Charlie Bass said:
> 
> 
> > manifold said:
> ...


 
you have. remember it's the bass who's talking.


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## Bass v 2.0 (Jul 21, 2009)

Forget it, this thread has been so overran by white apologist trolls doing all they can to deflect and deny the obvious racial profiling by the police and the dumb neighbor who called it in as if that neighbor didn't already know that Gates was staying there. A lot of latent racism in here.


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## Lonestar_logic (Jul 21, 2009)

Charlie Bass said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > The more I read about this incident the more I think Gates was trying to get arrested.  Nothing like a little street cred to boost enrollment in his African-American history course(s).  What a douche.
> ...



Hey stupid, he wasn't arrested for breaking into his own house. It's obvious you can read, but your reading comprehension skills are nonexistent.

If you ask them nicely maybe they'll type slower and then maybe, just maybe you can keep up.


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## del (Jul 21, 2009)

Charlie Bass said:


> Forget it, this thread has been so overran by white apologist trolls doing all they can to deflect and deny the obvious racial profiling by the police and the dumb neighbor who called it in as if that neighbor didn't already know that Gates was staying there. A lot of latent racism in here.



and a fair amount of blatant stupidity.

thanks for pitching in


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## manifold (Jul 21, 2009)

DumBass said:
			
		

> Forget it, this thread has been so overran by white apologist trolls doing all they can to deflect and deny the obvious racial profiling by the police and the dumb neighbor who called it in as if that neighbor didn't already know that Gates was staying there. A lot of latent racism in here.





Yeah, the police officer would've just walked away if he arrived on the scene and found out the guy was white.  Wouldn't have asked for ID or nothing, just assumed he was the legal resident!


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## Bass v 2.0 (Jul 21, 2009)

Lonestar_logic said:


> Charlie Bass said:
> 
> 
> > manifold said:
> ...




Yeah


White man pushing his way through house in rich neighborhood= No need for alarm.


Black man pushing his way through his own house in rich neighborhood= Police call for fear of black boogeyman robbing a house. Of course that this racial profiling,


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## Ravi (Jul 21, 2009)

Valerie said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Valerie said:
> ...


It's a clear as mud, isn't it. If they didn't tell him that they were investigating a possible break in to his house then they reacted badly (the cops). Otherwise, it's hard to say.


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## manifold (Jul 21, 2009)

Charlie Bass said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> > Charlie Bass said:
> ...



You _might_ have a point regarding the neighbor who made the call... maybe.

But you don't have a leg to stand on accusing the cop of racial profiling.  He was responding to a call about a possible break-in.  What's he supposed to do differently?


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## Shogun (Jul 21, 2009)

Charlie Bass said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > The more I read about this incident the more I think Gates was trying to get arrested.  Nothing like a little street cred to boost enrollment in his African-American history course(s).  What a douche.
> ...



better yet.. how about we let no snitch, crybaby ******* fend for themselves and stop wasting public resources on populations that breed it's own crime like termites in a woodshed.

Again, these cops were doing their jobs.  What truly IS telling though is how Gates, hailed as an educated black man, responded to a reasonable request with "I'll talk to YOUR MAMMA outside".  You know what they say about taking the ****** out of the cotton patch but not being able to take the cotton patch out of the ******...


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## Shogun (Jul 21, 2009)

Charlie Bass said:


> Forget it, this thread has been so overran by white apologist trolls doing all they can to deflect and deny the obvious racial profiling by the police and the dumb neighbor who called it in as if that neighbor didn't already know that Gates was staying there. A lot of latent racism in here.



oh yes.  Because everyone in a neighborhood is REQUIRED to know when KING ****** moves into the area.  Anything less is stark racism.


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## Bass v 2.0 (Jul 21, 2009)

This case also refutes the class argument whereby class trumps race, 


Poor black= ******

Rich black= ******


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## Shogun (Jul 21, 2009)

no, it's more like


edit, not allowed to be directed to an individual


As mentioned earlier, I've read Gates's memoir and enjoyed it (have you?  I bet you haven't).  but this story robs him lol of all credibility as an educated man reacting like an educated man should.  ESPECIALLY a man whose livelyhood comes from teaching about race issues in America.  If his sole rebuttal is to cry racism after busting out a mom joke on cops doeing their jobs then, again, he becomes about as much of a  disappointment as you are.


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## Bass v 2.0 (Jul 21, 2009)

Pat Buchanan said:


> no, it's more like
> 
> edited
> 
> ...



no family


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## Ravi (Jul 21, 2009)

Shogun said:


> no, it's more like
> 
> 
> edit
> ...


One bad day makes him a typical ******, hey Soggy? Awesome.


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## Ravi (Jul 21, 2009)

manifoist said:


> You're right Ravi, you're always right. I saw you do this in another thread so I had to do it, too.


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## manifold (Jul 21, 2009)

DumBass said:
			
		

> What's the difference between dog shit and *******?
> When dog shit gets old it turns White and quits stinking.
> 
> What's the difference between a ****** and a snow tire?
> ...



Self-depracating humor, alright!


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## Ravi (Jul 21, 2009)

Here's Gate's version of events.

I suspect we will never know what really happened and that is a shame.

Gates Says He Is Outraged by Arrest at Cambridge Home - washingtonpost.com


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## del (Jul 21, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Here's Gate's version of events.
> 
> I suspect we will never know what really happened and that is a shame.
> 
> Gates Says He Is Outraged by Arrest at Cambridge Home - washingtonpost.com



i do find it illustrative that it took him almost a week to be outraged.


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## Valerie (Jul 21, 2009)

manifold said:


> DumBass said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Ravi (Jul 21, 2009)

del said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Here's Gate's version of events.
> ...


Slow fuse? I really don't know what to believe, but heck, if PC thinks this guy Gates is okay then it's possible the cops are dirty. Nah, that never happens.


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## manifold (Jul 21, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Here's Gate's version of events.
> 
> I suspect we will never know what really happened and that is a shame.
> 
> Gates Says He Is Outraged by Arrest at Cambridge Home - washingtonpost.com



My magic eightball says that all signs point to Gates being full of shit.


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## del (Jul 21, 2009)

Ravi said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



he didn't seem to have a slow fuse at the time of the incident.


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## Ravi (Jul 21, 2009)

del said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...


True enough...like I said, I don't know what to believe. For all I know, he's been squawking all week and the media just picked up on it. 

Do cops up in the great liberal oasis usually make bad arrests?


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## del (Jul 21, 2009)

Ravi said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



cops are people.

 people make mistakes, so yeah, bad arrests are made, but not usually, IMO.


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Here's Gate's version of events.
> 
> I suspect we will never know what really happened and that is a shame.
> 
> Gates Says He Is Outraged by Arrest at Cambridge Home - washingtonpost.com


If a person dressed like a cop rang my bell late at night, said he was investigating a reported break-in but did not specify that it was my house that was reported as the one broken into nor that I resembled the person reported as having brocken in, and then this person asked me for ID, I would not let him into my house and I might even ask for ID before offering my own. 

This sounds like a comedy, or tragedy, of errors. I think Gates had reason to be offended but I don't see where he has reason to claim the arrest was racially motivated. He's the one who brought up race. He made an assumption.


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

del said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Here's Gate's version of events.
> ...


 
What? That as a public figure, he took time to formulate a public statement? I'm sure he's been outraged since the day it happened.


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## manifold (Jul 21, 2009)

Anguille said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...




You mean he took time to formulate a steaming pile of bull shit because he knows the truth shows him to be a fucking asshole.


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## del (Jul 21, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Here's Gate's version of events.
> ...



it happened in the middle of the day, and what house do you think the cops would be checking for a reported break in? the one down the street?


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> The wonder here is that the first article I read said it was a "neighbor" that reported the break in.  Why doesn't the professor get out and meet his neighbors so that this doesn't happen?  Or perhaps, he just doesn't associate with whites?


  Do we know that his neighbors are all white? 

In any case, maybe he does say hello to his neighbors. Is it his fault "all blacks look alike"?


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## Ravi (Jul 21, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Here's Gate's version of events.
> ...


Yeah, the fact that he jumped to that conclusion counts against him while at the same time it is a reasonable conclusion to jump to...I agree, I'd be very apt to call 9/11 if cops came to my door under the circumstances. But that's prolly because as a woman I've learned to be suspicious of men claiming to be cops.


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## del (Jul 21, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



good thinking and a real cop wouldn't have a problem with it, either.


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

del said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


 
I've had cops ring my door to ask if I noticed anything when things have happened in my street but none of them demanded i show ID. If Gates knew there was no break-in at his house, why would he think the cop was mistakenly investigating a break-in at his house. Is he supposed to be clairvoyant?


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## del (Jul 21, 2009)

Anguille said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...



no. is the cop?


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## manifold (Jul 21, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



Not to go off on a tangent but...

I really really really fuckin hate it when I see unmarked cop cars making traffic stops.  They shouldn't be allowed to do that IMO.  It doesn't take much effort on the part of a would be bad guy to simply install a siren and a couple of flashing blue lights in his grill.


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## Ravi (Jul 21, 2009)

del said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...


Hopefully. I've known some arrogant cops in my time though. It's very hard for me to condemn an innocent person that questions their motives.

For the record I think most cops are good cops. The few bad ones keep me on my guard.


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## manifold (Jul 21, 2009)

Anguille said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...





Now you're just being intentionally dense.  

Gates had just busted down his own door in broad daylight.  No clairvoyance required to surmise how that might look to people who don't know you.


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## Ravi (Jul 21, 2009)

manifold said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...


It happens. We've had cases of rapists doing just that.


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


  I don't think it's entirely unreasonable for him to think race could be involved but I would think a smart guy like him would wait for solid evidence before making accusations. Perhaps he was trying to provoke the cop as minifool keeps barking about. I won't deny that's a possibility. I also know firsthand that cops can be racist. 
So, like you say, we'll never know exactly what happened and perhaps the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Mostly I think it was a misunderstanding that got out of hand and that someone went too far.


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

del said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...


  Did the cop think intruders normally open front doors and invite cops into the kitchen?


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

Ravi said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


It's why no woman traveling alone should get out of her car when pulled over by a cop until she is certain he's legit. And even then she should be wary ...


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## Ravi (Jul 21, 2009)

Anguille said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...


Only the smart ones.


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## Againsheila (Jul 21, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Here's Gate's version of events.
> ...



And millions of blacks are jumping on it as we speak, Gates himself has decided to turn this into a reason to spread hatred:

"I am appalled that any American could be treated as capriciously by an individual police officer. He should look into his soul and he should apologize to me," Gates said. "If so, I will be prepared to forgive him. I think that poor people in general and black people in general are vulnerable to the whims of rogue cops, and we all have to fight to protect the weakest among us. No matter how bad it was going to get, I knew that sooner or later I would get to a phone and one of my friends would be there to help." 

His next project on race, he said, will be rooted in his arrest. "I hope to make a documentary about racial profiling for PBS," he said. "[The idea] had never crossed my mind but it has now." 

He said the documentary will ask: "How are people treated when they are arrested? How does the criminal justice system work? How many black and brown men and poor white men are the victims of police officers who are carrying racist thoughts? 

"I want to be a figure for prison reform. I think that criminal justice system is rotten." 

I'm so sick of the race card.  We have a black man as the president of the USA.  Does this mean racism is dead?  No, but it sure as heck means it's crippled and not nearly as strong as so many are claiming.


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

manifold said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...


Busted? I thought the door was jammed? It's not clear what the cop actually saw when he came to the house. In any case the cop seems not to have given adequate information as to why he was there and why he was demanding ID from a homeowner in his own home. 
The cop messed up. Gates messed up.


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

manifold said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...


The fact that the officer's first words to Gates were to ask him to step outside, indicates he intended to arrest him.


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## del (Jul 21, 2009)

Anguille said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...



i don't know.

i'm not clairvoyant.


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## del (Jul 21, 2009)

Anguille said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...



so now you're clairvoyant?


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## Ravi (Jul 21, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


Well...he did include poor white men, Shelia. That should count for something. It's not exactly a secret that the cops treat suspects badly...but it may be unknown that the courts treat innocent POOR people worse. If you can't afford a decent lawyer or aren't assigned a decent one pro bono you can pretty much kiss your freedom goodbye.


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## Ravi (Jul 21, 2009)

del said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > manifold said:
> ...


Clairvoyant would be a good name for a sock puppet.


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

del said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > manifold said:
> ...


Why do you think cops ask people to step out side? To enjoy the summer breeze?


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

Ravi said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...


I've been thinking I should have called myself Red Herring.


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


I'm sick of hearing about racial issues as well but I would be glad to see a documentary on discrimination by police and the penal system against the poor and against blacks done by Gates. He's done some excellent documentaries and admits to having had his own preconceptions blown apart. Notice he said he would be willing to forgive the officer? 
Gates has a huge ego, no doubt, but he could be right about this incident too.


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## Ravi (Jul 21, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...


I dunno, Squeaky, Pickled Herring might be better.


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


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## del (Jul 21, 2009)

Anguille said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...



depends on the situation, i suppose.

if he wanted to arrest him, there was no reason he couldn't arrest him where he stood. as i said, i'm not clairvoyant, but it seems a pretty big leap to assume that was the cop's motivation.


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## Ravi (Jul 21, 2009)

del said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...


Back up...weren't there six cops hanging around outside?


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## del (Jul 21, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



swede!


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

del said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...


From what little I know about police procedure and making arrests, they often ask people to step outside first.


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## Anguille (Jul 21, 2009)

del said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...


I looooooooove herring!! This was me  a few weeks ago.


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## Shogun (Jul 22, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> > no, it's more like
> ...




Given his "Your Mamma" response....  which, im sure, had a wite professor made an equivalent statement you'd waste no time applying similar connotations.  But, thankfully, racism only works one way.


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## Ravi (Jul 22, 2009)

I didn't know your momma was a racist statement. The things I learn here.


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## Lonestar_logic (Jul 22, 2009)

Anguille said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...



You ask them outside for safety. You don't know who else could be in the house or if the suspect has a weapon inside the house. 

You should research police procedures before you make such asinine statements.


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## Ravi (Jul 22, 2009)

Lonestar_logic said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > manifold said:
> ...


Maybe you should. You can't arrest someone for disorderly conduct inside their own house...but you can when they are outside, in public.


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## Valerie (Jul 22, 2009)

Lonestar_logic said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > manifold said:
> ...




Also because the officer had no warrant to enter the premises and Mr Gates had a right to refuse entry, so the officer simply stated that he was there to answer a call about a possible break-in and asked him to step outside for a moment and show his ID.


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## Lonestar_logic (Jul 22, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...



Show me the procedure that states a police officer cannot make a disorderly conduct arrest in an individuals home.


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## manifold (Jul 22, 2009)

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what this officer did wrong.  What did he do that violated standard procedure?  What should he have done differently?  You can sympathize with Gates all you want (personally I don't), but how exactly does Officer Crowley's actions constitute racism or racial profiling?


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## Coloradomtnman (Jul 22, 2009)

After learning more about this, here's what I think happened:

Someone saw two blackmen forcing open a door and called the police.  Probably someone with latent racist tendencies.

The sargeant arrived and, following procedure, asked Gates to step outside.  But I think he went a little too far in his behavior toward Gates in his continued demand of Gates' ID.

Gates got angry because he perceived that the officers showed up because a black man was busting in a door in a wealthy neighborhood.  Gates has an attitude and gets belligerent with the officer.

The officer gets angry that Gates gets belligerent with him and eventually arrests Gates on disorderly conduct (ak in the police force as "contempt of cop" charges).

Gates behavior was bad, and in many cases a cop will arrest you for behaving belligerently with him or her, especially if you insult the cop (I know from experience).  Usually there are no charges filed or they are dropped (as in this case).

The cop shouldn't have arrested Gates but didn't realize the can of worms he was opening and might have been motivated by some latent racism.

Both are equally at fault for the unfortunate situation.  Now that the Cambride PD has dropped the charges, they've openned themselves and the sargeant up to civil suit.  Why?  Probably because the disorderly conduct charges aren't enough to convict, and just think about the media's protrayal of the trial and its outcome, whatever that outcome may have been.

Gates should've remained calm and dealt with the officers civilly (which would've played better in his favor for accusations of "racial bias" against the Cambridge PD.  And the police officer should've just left to avoid the political and media backlash and the possible civil suit consequential to the dropped charges.

By the way, I'm very liberal and would assume institutional racism, and did, but after learning more about the case, I think this is just bad judgement on both men's parts and neither institutional racism nor playing the race card.

However, Gates has taken it to far with all the media and cries of racial bias (which may be true, but not true enough).


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## manifold (Jul 22, 2009)

Coloradomtnman said:


> After learning more about this, here's what I think happened:
> 
> Someone saw two blackmen forcing open a door and called the police.  *Probably someone with latent racist tendencies.*



I'm calling bullshit.

The only reason to conclude latent racist tendecies is if you assume they wouldn't have bothered calling the cops if the two mean forcing open the door were white.  I don't believe that for one second.  If you do, that says more about your own latent racist tendencies than it does anything else.  No offense.


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## del (Jul 22, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...





you're kidding, right?


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## WillowTree (Jul 22, 2009)

manifold said:


> *I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what this officer did wrong.*  What did he do that violated standard procedure?  What should he have done differently?  You can sympathize with Gates all you want (personally I don't), but how exactly does Officer Crowley's actions constitute racism or racial profiling?



He was born a white guy! basically.


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## Ravi (Jul 22, 2009)

del said:


> Ravi said:
> 
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Um, no. The cops had no right to go into his house unless they believed they were stopping a felony. DC is a misdemeanor. How exactly would they justify arresting someone for disorderly conduct while they were inside that person's house without a warrant?


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## Coloradomtnman (Jul 22, 2009)

manifold said:


> Coloradomtnman said:
> 
> 
> > After learning more about this, here's what I think happened:
> ...



I only assume that they might have called the cops because of latent tendencies.  I can't know with any certainty.  They might have called just because they saw what appeared to be to men breaking into a house.  But they might have called because the men were black.  It _is_ a wealthy white neighborhood and it _is_ Boston...I'm just sayin'.


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## manifold (Jul 22, 2009)

Coloradomtnman said:


> manifold said:
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Hey everyone, according to CMM, wealthy white people are racists.  What a bigoted thing to say.


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## del (Jul 22, 2009)

Ravi said:


> del said:
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b & e is a felony here in the liberal oasis, so that dog won't hunt, sorry.


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## manifold (Jul 22, 2009)

And just to sprinkle a little irony on the subject...

We're talking about Cambridge, Massachusetts.  If ever there was a ranking of police forces based on highest awareness, sensitivity and adherence to political correctness, Cambridge would probably top the list.


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## Lonestar_logic (Jul 22, 2009)

Ravi said:


> del said:
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They had probable cause to go into the house if needed. Please educate yourself on police procedures, until then STFU.


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## Coloradomtnman (Jul 22, 2009)

manifold said:


> Coloradomtnman said:
> 
> 
> > I only assume that they might have called the cops because of latent tendencies.  I can't know with any certainty.  They might have called just because they saw what appeared to be to men breaking into a house.  But they might have called because the men were black.  It _is_ *a wealthy white *neighborhood and it _is_ Boston...I'm just sayin'.
> ...



Manifold, I never said that wealthy white people are racists.  I implied that wealthy white people are more likely to call the cops when black men are apparently breaking in to houses in rich, white neighborhoods.  Is that really so unbelievable?


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## Coloradomtnman (Jul 22, 2009)

manifold said:


> And just to sprinkle a little irony on the subject...
> 
> We're talking about Cambridge, Massachusetts.  If ever there was a ranking of police forces based on highest awareness, sensitivity and adherence to political correctness, Cambridge would probably top the list.



Cops are cops everywhere.

I used to live in Boulder, Colorado.  As much as people who live in Colorado wish to believe that Boulder is a liberal paradise (and in someways it is), its filled with rich, white, fearful, pseudo-liberals who think its cool to appear liberal but who don't really have the convictions of true liberals.  And the cops there are just as white, mustachioed, oakley-wearing, power-tripping assholes as they are anywhere else (except Mayberry).

Sounds like Cambridge to me.


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## manifold (Jul 22, 2009)

Coloradomtnman said:


> manifold said:
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I didn't say it was unbelievable.  I'm saying that it is a stereotypical generalization and therefore a bigoted thing to say.


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## WillowTree (Jul 22, 2009)

we would be better off without any white cops!


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## manifold (Jul 22, 2009)

CMM,

I get your point about cops, but in Cambridge they're much more likely to be scrutinized IMO.  And this story certainly doesn't refute that.

And another point about bigotry.  Just because a statement might be accurate, doesn't absolve it from being bigoted.  Remember Jimmy the Greek?


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## del (Jul 22, 2009)

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/...1docket_redacted_revised__1248200728_6644.pdf

arrest report


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## Coloradomtnman (Jul 22, 2009)

manifold said:


> Coloradomtnman said:
> 
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Well, I'm stickin' with it.  In my opinion, wealthy white folks are more likely to call the cops when they see what appears to be black men breaking into a house in their neighborhood than if the men apparently breaking into the house were white.  In fact, I think that white people in general are more likely to call the cops if black men are seemingly breaking into a house in a white neighborhood than if white men seem to be forcing their way in through the front door of a house in the same neighborhood.

I don't call that bigotry, I call it probability.


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## Coloradomtnman (Jul 22, 2009)

manifold said:


> CMM,
> 
> And another point about bigotry.  Just because a statement might be accurate, doesn't absolve it from being bigoted.  Remember Jimmy the Greek?



I don't know if I agree with that, Manifold.  Could you provide an example?

Who was Jimmy the Greek?  Sounds familiar but I'm not making the connection.


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## manifold (Jul 22, 2009)

Coloradomtnman said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > Coloradomtnman said:
> ...



So what do you call it when someone says that a randomly selected black man is likely to have a lower IQ than a randomly selected white man?


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## ba1614 (Jul 22, 2009)

del said:


> http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/...1docket_redacted_revised__1248200728_6644.pdf
> 
> arrest report



Why would the dumb fucker not just show his id? Why would the cop NOT want to see id when responding to a reported b&e?
 There's gotta be more to this because that just doesn't make sense. I'd like to see the other cops report.


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## Ravi (Jul 22, 2009)

del said:


> Ravi said:
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I know that. But disorderly conduct isn't a felony. 

The cops actually had a reason to go into his house yet they did not...why? Because they knew by looking at him he wasn't a burglar? Then why harass him.


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

Lonestar_logic said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > manifold said:
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They also ask them to step outside because certain types of arrest are easier to justify later to a judge when they are made on public property instead of private property. Arresting a homeowner inside his own hom when no crime has been committed and the officer does not have a search warrant is risky behavior on the part of the officer. 

Mr/Ms. Know-It -All....


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## Ravi (Jul 22, 2009)

manifold said:


> And just to sprinkle a little irony on the subject...
> 
> We're talking about Cambridge, Massachusetts.  If ever there was a ranking of police forces based on highest awareness, sensitivity and adherence to political correctness, Cambridge would probably top the list.


I thought they'd gotten in trouble in the past for racial profiling?


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## Skull Pilot (Jul 22, 2009)

Coloradomtnman said:


> manifold said:
> 
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> > Coloradomtnman said:
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FYI that area of Boston has had a series of daylight burglaries where the thieves made entrance via the front door.  In fact 9 in the last 6 months.  the cop was simply asking for I.D.  the so called academic was the one to first start screaming racism.



Coloradomtnman said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > And just to sprinkle a little irony on the subject...
> ...



So all cops are assholes and racists except when coming to your aid right?

You'd probably be the first to file suit if they didn't stop a guy from robbing you if they were able.

We can fix this problem quite easily.

Instead of cruisers with one or two cops in them, we should have police buses patrolling the streets and in those buses we will have one officer of every racial and ethnic combination found in the USA.  When rolling up to a crime scene only those cops that match the racial and ethnic profiles of the people involved will be allowed off the bus to address the complaint.


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## Ravi (Jul 22, 2009)

Lonestar_logic said:


> Ravi said:
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Go fuck yourself. And I mean that in the nicest way.


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
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Exactly, and what the cop called disorderly conduct had not even begun as yet. This cop was avoiding showing his ID.


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## Yurt (Jul 22, 2009)

Ravi said:


> manifold said:
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> > And just to sprinkle a little irony on the subject...
> ...



IF they did....don't you think that is actually more proof that they are one of the most sensitive forces out there....


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## Ravi (Jul 22, 2009)

del said:


> http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/...1docket_redacted_revised__1248200728_6644.pdf
> 
> arrest report


jeesh...the cop doesn't know the difference between _your_ and _you're_.


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## Yurt (Jul 22, 2009)

Ravi said:


> del said:
> 
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if the facts as reported are true, they had every right to go into the house as a neighbor reported someone breaking in and there were people in the house...


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## Skull Pilot (Jul 22, 2009)

Ravi said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/...1docket_redacted_revised__1248200728_6644.pdf
> ...



neither do a lot of people here so what's your point?


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

manifold said:


> I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what this officer did wrong.  What did he do that violated standard procedure?  What should he have done differently?  You can sympathize with Gates all you want (personally I don't), but how exactly does Officer Crowley's actions constitute racism or racial profiling?


He should have told Gates he was investigating a break in *at Gate's house*. It would have helped prevent the misundersatnding. He should have presented his ID when asked. Otherwise, I see nothing in the police officer's behavior to indicate this had anything to do with race. I don't have sympathy for either. I think this was a case of working class guy versus a professional. Both of whom happened to have big egos and resent having their authority challenged.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Jul 22, 2009)

Henry Louis Gates Jr. demands apology, sensitivity training - BostonHerald.com  <====Click the link to take the poll.  42% say that gates was out of line 24% say the cops were doing their job, the rest say it was the cops who were wrong.



That Professor was yelling at the cops but in a press conference today he said he was calm







Just so you guys know this happened in Cambridge MA, one of the most liberal parts of my liberal state.   Also there was a black officer present during the arrest so the claims of racism are, like most claims of racism in these type of incidents, bogus.


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## Skull Pilot (Jul 22, 2009)

Anguille said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what this officer did wrong.  What did he do that violated standard procedure?  What should he have done differently?  You can sympathize with Gates all you want (personally I don't), but how exactly does Officer Crowley's actions constitute racism or racial profiling?
> ...



My buddy is a locksmith and if someone calls him to open a door at a house, the first thing he does is ask for identification as proof that the person actually lives at the address.

i guess he's just another asshole racist too.


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## Yurt (Jul 22, 2009)

Ravi said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/...1docket_redacted_revised__1248200728_6644.pdf
> ...



that is one of the most common grammar mistakes...that you latch onto that as something is telling of your desperation to make this into something bigger than it is

the prof was clearly lacking material, so he creates this whole incident to write a book, i called it right when i read about, lo and behold a day later he tells everyone his going to use this incident to write a book

LOL, this incident is so transparent its laughable that anyone takes it seriously


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

Skull Pilot said:


> Ravi said:
> 
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Don't you mean you're point?


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## WillowTree (Jul 22, 2009)

Racial Politics of Convenience seems to work every time!


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## manifold (Jul 22, 2009)

Ravi said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/...1docket_redacted_revised__1248200728_6644.pdf
> ...



Whoa, Smoking gun!  Clearly he is a racist.


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

Skull Pilot said:


> Anguille said:
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Um  ...did you read my post? Where do I say the officer was being racist?


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Jul 22, 2009)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Henry Louis Gates Jr. demands apology, sensitivity training - BostonHerald.com  <====Click the link to take the poll.  42% say that gates was out of line 24% say the cops were doing their job, the rest say it was the cops who were wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Take the poll in the link guys  .


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

Yurt said:


> Ravi said:
> 
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You should know Ravi  by now. She tosses out stuff like this to get you guys off the track while she thinks up her real comeback. And then, since you ran off chasing to ball she tossed you, you are unprepared to respond to her next post.


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## del (Jul 22, 2009)

Ravi said:


> del said:
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there's no point in any further discussion of this with you. you've decided it's the cop's fault and nothing will make you see it differently.
later


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## manifold (Jul 22, 2009)

Anguille said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what this officer did wrong.  What did he do that violated standard procedure?  What should he have done differently?  You can sympathize with Gates all you want (personally I don't), but how exactly does Officer Crowley's actions constitute racism or racial profiling?
> ...



Your suggestion seems reasonable to me, but I don't know enough about police procedures for this kind of situation to say for sure.  But it seems that the initial misunderstanding was cleared up rather quickly and I'm more than willing to saddle both of them with half of the blame for it.  However, once the misunderstanding was remedied, Gates took the situation as an opportunity to shout racism and berate and harass the officer.  And even now he seems determined to ruin the officer's career.  In my book that makes him a race baiting, fucking asshole of a douchebag.


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## Ravi (Jul 22, 2009)

del said:


> Ravi said:
> 
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 Actually I've been leaning toward the other direction since yesterday.


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

manifold said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > manifold said:
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Yes, I agree Gates was race baiting. I have a lot of respect for the guy otherwise as an academic so I am doubly sorry to see him sink so low. 

I think they are both equally responsible, Crowley and Gates for letting the situation escalate, but Gates is responsible for bringing the issue of race into it. All I can say is that obviously he was not in his best form that day. 

Here's something else I found. Apparently, Gates *did *think his home may have been burglarized. 


_My driver is a large black man. But from afar you and I would not have seen he was black. He has black hair and was dressed in a two-piece black suit, and I was dressed in a navy blue blazer with gray trousers and, you know, my shoes. And I love that the 911 report said that two big black men were trying to break in with backpacks on. Now that is the worst racial profiling I&#8217;ve ever heard of in my life. (Laughs.) I&#8217;m not exactly a big black man. I thought that was hilarious when I found that out, which was yesterday. _
_It looked like someone&#8217;s footprint was there. So it&#8217;s possible that the door had been jimmied, that someone had tried to get in while I was in China. But for whatever reason, the lock was damaged. My driver hit the door with his shoulder and the door popped open. But the lock was permanently disfigured. My home is owned by Harvard University, and so any kind of repair work that&#8217;s needed, Harvard will come and do it. I called this person, and she was, in fact, on the line while all of this was going on.   
_

Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. speaks out on racial profiling after his arrest by Cambridge police.


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## Lonestar_logic (Jul 22, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
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You make absolutely no sense. Arresting a homeowner inside his home when no crime has been committed is the dumbest thing I've heard all day. You're suggesting a cop would arrest a person when no crime has been committed. 

Instead of assuming what you believe to be facts, you should study police procedure and when you come across the section that states " certain types of arrest are easier to justify later to a judge when they are made on public property instead of private property" please provide that portion for all to see.


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

Lonestar_logic said:


> You make absolutely no sense. Arresting a homeowner inside his home when no crime has been committed is the dumbest thing I've heard all day. *You're suggesting a cop would arrest a person when no crime has been committed.*


  Shocker!!


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## Lonestar_logic (Jul 22, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Ravi said:
> 
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The cop was wearing a name tag and badge, what other ID is needed? A drivers license?


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## WillowTree (Jul 22, 2009)

manifold said:


> Anguille said:
> 
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Bullseye! Bullseye! Bullseye. Racial Politics of Convenience!


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

Lonestar_logic said:


> Anguille said:
> 
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Geez, I thought you knew about police procedure?


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## Lonestar_logic (Jul 22, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
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I do and all that's required is name and badge number.  I know, it's a shocker.  Oh and can provide specifics about police arresting citizens when no crime has been committed.


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

Lonestar_logic said:


> Anguille said:
> 
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Don't know where you live but where I live and where Gate's lives a police officer is required to present ID when asked. And they normally do. I've them asked myself. That this officer refused to present ID shows a cavalier attitude towards his duties.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Jul 22, 2009)

Lonestar_logic said:


> You make absolutely no sense. Arresting a homeowner inside his home when no crime has been committed is the dumbest thing I've heard all day. You're suggesting a cop would arrest a person when no crime has been committed.
> 
> Instead of assuming what you believe to be facts, you should study police procedure and when you come across the section that states " certain types of arrest are easier to justify later to a judge when they are made on public property instead of private property" please provide that portion for all to see.



Ok here is some history for you.  

On that specific street in cambridge there have been 9 daylight front door break ins in the past 3 weeks.  

A nosy neighbor saw him enter the front door in what looked to them like a break in and the neighbor called the cops.

The cops arrived and asked him to present ID to prove he lived there and he refused, and did so in a loud and obstinant manner 





			
				eye witness account said:
			
		

> A 55-year-old neighbor who said he witnessed the incident but declined to give his name, however, said that Gates was in fact yelling loudly, as indicated by a photo taken by another neighbor.When police asked him for ID, Gates started yelling, Im a Harvard professor . . . You believe white women over black men. This is racial profiling. 



Upon further refusals the police officer placed him under arrest (which i think was over the top, he should have restrained the professor then gotten his ID and let him go once it was verified)

Henry Louis Gates Jr. demands apology, sensitivity training - BostonHerald.com


"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt"  Abraham Lincoln


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## Shogun (Jul 22, 2009)

Ravi said:


> I didn't know your momma was a racist statement. The things I learn here.



You said "typical ******" not "racist".  Is this where you start to do your silly little ravi dance?


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## Ravi (Jul 22, 2009)

Shogun said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't know your momma was a racist statement. The things I learn here.
> ...


Did I misunderstand you? You seem to think that because he made the _your momma_ quote that means he is a typical ******, correct?


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## Shogun (Jul 22, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Shogun said:
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Certainly not the caliber one should expect from a celebrated professor.  Is there some kind of silly Ravi math involved in squeezing "racist" out of that, monkey?


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## Ravi (Jul 22, 2009)

Shogun said:


> Ravi said:
> 
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> > Shogun said:
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Are you backing away from what you said now, Soggy? If you think he's a typical ****** because he said _your momma_ then don't be afraid to admit it. I'm not saying you are a racist if you believe that.


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## Shogun (Jul 22, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Shogun said:
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I didn't call him a racist, Ravir.  Do you REALLY need me to quote your stupid cuntly ass here?  I said he acted like a typical ****** in busting out a Your Mamma to a cop.  If that is the kind of statement you expect to hear from a harvard prof then I can understand why you have slurpee and dollar menu tastes.


I guess I might as well go ahead and quote you BEFORE you start dancing around like a retarded monkey 



Ravi said:


> I didn't know your momma was a racist statement. The things I learn here.


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## Ravi (Jul 22, 2009)

Shogun said:


> I said he acted like a typical ****** in busting out a Your Mamma to a cop.  If that is the kind of statement you expect to hear from a harvard prof then I can understand why you have slurpee and dollar menu tastes.


That's all I wanted to know. Was that so hard?


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

Shogun said:


> Ravi said:
> 
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Why couldn't a "typical ******" become a Harvard professor?


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## Shogun (Jul 22, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> > I said he acted like a typical ****** in busting out a Your Mamma to a cop.  If that is the kind of statement you expect to hear from a harvard prof then I can understand why you have slurpee and dollar menu tastes.
> ...



not at all.  Just a matter of using the quote feature to step on your little monkey tail.


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## GHook93 (Jul 22, 2009)

From Professor:
Mr incompetent officer (who just shot back race relations year and gave black self-loathers like Jackson and Sharpton more fuel for their fire) first check the residence owner on your database. Next check his identification. Once they matched. Apologize and explain the situation. More than likely the professor would have turned to be grateful instead of angry! 

His actions of still not believing him were unacceptable (extremely unacceptable). Tell you the truth it would enrage me if I was in the shoes of the professor! Many cops get on a power trip once a person shows any type of hostility towards them, no matter how justified that hostility is.

The Cop "I don't know why he started acting like that." Hey dickhead imagine you come back from a long trip and find your house broken into and the cop shows up, you give him identification and the ignorant cop says "Nigga I still don't believe you!" Hey asshole 90% of the people out there would have reacted like the professor!

From Officer:
Although the officer is clearly in the wrong and deserves to be fired and sued! The professor had more than a reason to be enraged, but still should have tried to keep his cool a little better.


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## Shogun (Jul 22, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Shogun said:
> 
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for the same reason a blue collar heyseed shouldn't; we don't define our best efforts in education with low brow people.  Do you expect ME to be a prof at Cambridge, Ang?  Why not?  If Your Mamma can do it then I guess so too can anyone else, eh?  Which, pretty much makes a joke out of the concept of noting the best schools in a heirarchy.


Hey, go tell the next homless bum you see that he too can be a prof at Stanford!


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

Shogun said:


> Anguille said:
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You midwesterners are so provincial!


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## Lonestar_logic (Jul 22, 2009)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> > You make absolutely no sense. Arresting a homeowner inside his home when no crime has been committed is the dumbest thing I've heard all day. You're suggesting a cop would arrest a person when no crime has been committed.
> ...



I fully understand the events of that day, but what Anguille (sp) is saying is that Gates asked the cop for an ID and the cop refused.  My opinion is that the cop has a badge with his number on it and his name tag pinned to his shirt that is clearly visable. So why the heck would you ask a cop for his ID when it's right in front of your nose? It makes no sense and when it doesn't make sense it's usually not true.  If I was in uniform and Anguille ask for my ID I'd point to my badge and name tag .... duh!

Perhaps we're smarter down here in the south.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Jul 22, 2009)

Lonestar_logic said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > Lonestar_logic said:
> ...



I think i'm misfiring here, i'm not quite sure we were in disagreement on that.   I dont think the cop should have had to provide ID either.   I think the Professor should have been detained for not......oh just re-read my post I think we both misfired here.


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## Shogun (Jul 22, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...



By all means.  Clarify my error in logic.  do you expect ivy league proffs to speak like Dave Chapelle?  


"I'm robert Louis Gates, BEYOTCH!"


good grief.


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

Shogun said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Shogun said:
> ...


Who knew the Shogun was such a snob.


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## Shogun (Jul 22, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...



that doesn't look like a clarification.  So, i'll ask again:

Tell me how I'm wrong.  DO YOU EXPECT the highest echelon of education to react like SNOOP DOG?



"One, Two three and two the fo'
Snoop doggy dog and Robert G is at the do'
Ready to make an entrance, so back on up
[Cause you know we 'bout to rip shit up]

Gimme the microphone first, so I can bust like a bubble
Cambridge and Long Beach together, now you know you in trouble 

Ain't nothin' but a G thang, baaaaabay!
Two loc'ed out nigga's so we're craaaaazay!
Harvard school is the label that paaaaays me!
Unfadable, so please don't try to fade this [Hell yeah]


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## Lonestar_logic (Jul 22, 2009)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> > PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> ...



I agree with you. Simple misunderstandings happen all the time, thanks for clearing things up.


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## Shogun (Jul 22, 2009)

So Ang.. did I just bust you pulling a ravi?


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## manifold (Jul 22, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



Apparently they can.


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

No idea what you mean, Snoogie.
 I'm still left with the impression you think all Harvard professors look and act like Rex Harrison in _My Fair Lady_.


----------



## Shogun (Jul 22, 2009)

Anguille said:


> No idea what you mean, Snoogie.
> I'm still left with the impression you think all Harvard professors look and act like Rex Harrison in _My Fair Lady_.



As opposed to fred Sanford?

"Naw, open your text books to page 31 class.  Today we'ze gonna read about Thermodynamic, Ya Big Dummy!"


----------



## manifold (Jul 22, 2009)

Shogun said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > No idea what you mean, Snoogie.
> ...




Or perhaps you'd like to enroll in _Get in that Ass 101_ with Professor Leon.

[youtube]2Ewr4BSTr8Q[/youtube]


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## Diuretic (Jul 22, 2009)

Charlie Bass said:


> Forget it, this thread has been so overran by white apologist trolls doing all they can to deflect and deny the obvious racial profiling by the police and the dumb neighbor who called it in as if that neighbor didn't already know that Gates was staying there. A lot of latent racism in here.



I've just got back into the thread, haven't read the posts after yours Charlie so this comment is not made with the benefit of reading further posts.  But I can't see racial profiling here.  Someone is reported as breaking into a house in broad daylight that's worth a visit and a few questions.  That would be all I'd need to know to scoot my arse around there to see what was going on.


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## Againsheila (Jul 22, 2009)

Coloradomtnman said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > Coloradomtnman said:
> ...




If I saw anybody breaking into one of my neighbor's homes, I would call the cops.  Why would I be racist if the perpetraters happened to be black?


----------



## Againsheila (Jul 22, 2009)

Diuretic said:


> Charlie Bass said:
> 
> 
> > Forget it, this thread has been so overran by white apologist trolls doing all they can to deflect and deny the obvious racial profiling by the police and the dumb neighbor who called it in as if that neighbor didn't already know that Gates was staying there. A lot of latent racism in here.
> ...




So apparently, now if we see someone break into a house and they happen to be black, we are racist if we call the cops?

The prof should be happy his neighbors are so vigilent.  It really could have been a burglar.


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

Shogun said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > No idea what you mean, Snoogie.
> ...


You're kind of entertaining for a hick.


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## Diuretic (Jul 22, 2009)

Anguille said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...



Depends.  In this situation, inside the house, perhaps.  How many cops were in the house?  If it's one cop and two men inside the house the cop has a couple of choices - call for backup to enter the house or ask the suspect to step outside where there's backup.  I saw that photo in the newspaper link Ravi gave us, it seems there were police outside.  That indicates to me that they were being fairly restrained about their behaviour - it's more usual for cops to pile into the house where they know another cop is speaking to a suspect.  Step outside is also usually used where you think you're about to get the shit kicked out of you, such as when you're in a pub and about to arrest someone but a dozen of his mates are waiting for you to do exactly that.


----------



## GHook93 (Jul 22, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KffID8m20UU]YouTube - Curb Your Enthusiasm: Larry beats up a Skinhead[/ame]




manifold said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...


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## Diuretic (Jul 22, 2009)

Lonestar_logic said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Lonestar_logic said:
> ...



Depends on the law in a jurisdiction doesn't it?


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## Diuretic (Jul 22, 2009)

Lonestar_logic said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > manifold said:
> ...



Yes, never forget the kitchen (given that there's not a high rate of firearms ownership where I am).


----------



## Diuretic (Jul 22, 2009)

del said:


> http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/...1docket_redacted_revised__1248200728_6644.pdf
> 
> arrest report



That's interesting.  Pretty brief report, not used to such brevity.

Anyway it shouldn't have been made public, that's a major invasion of Gates' privacy.


----------



## Shogun (Jul 22, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...



and you are a helluva dancer for a monkey.  I'll take this answer as a "yes, Shogun, you are right once again.  I am swooning right now"


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

Shogun said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Shogun said:
> ...


I don't swoon for no baboon.


----------



## Coloradomtnman (Jul 22, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> If I saw anybody breaking into one of my neighbor's homes, I would call the cops.  Why would I be racist if the perpetraters happened to be black?



Not at all.  And even if you did call because the perpetrators were black, I still wouldn't think that it automatically makes you a racist.  Americans have been trained, taught, brainwashed, whatever you want to call it, by the media and Hollywood and tv that black men are criminals.  Not all of them, mind you, just the big, saggy-pants, bandana-wearing, thuggish ones or the ones who look scary(which is dependent on the observer)!  I think its more "culturalist" than racist.

Now, if you're neighbor is black and you're wealthy, white and live next door and you see your neighbor and a big black man (the driver) forcing the front door open why are you going to call the cops?  Don't you recognize your neighbor, the black Harvard professor?  Or does every black man look alike to you and you don't know your black neighbor very well because you don't really interact with him?  Perhaps his neighbors called the cops because it looked like someone was breaking into the house and race had nothing to do with it.  But there is room for doubt...

If I saw my neighbor breaking in to his own house, I'm not going to call the cops.  But I know my black and hispanic neighbors.  I talk to them and wave at them and say "Good Morning" or "Hey!  How's it going, Lupe?" or "Beautiful day, huh?" while he/she is working in the yard.  And they say to me, "Como estas, gringo?" or "Hey, what's up, honkey?" (you know, cause, like, we joke around and stuff) or they say "Chinga tu madre, pan blanco!" and then I say "Bien, bien." and then they say "Callete, juerro!" or "Cerra tu boca, puto!"  or "Tu madre juele a mierda!" and I say "Yeah, thanks!  You, too!" and we all get along just fine.


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## manifold (Jul 22, 2009)

Hey CMM,

You never answered my question... 


http://www.usmessageboard.com/race-relations-racism/82510-harvard-professor-jailed-officer-is-accused-of-bias-12.html#post1360763


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## Shogun (Jul 22, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...



apparently you do.  Now.  did you want to pinpoint the flaw in my logic or shall I post another hilarious lampoon of your less than insightful condemnation?


----------



## Diuretic (Jul 22, 2009)

Having had a think about this and being as objective as I can, I've decided that Professor Gates is a big sook


----------



## manifold (Jul 22, 2009)

Diuretic said:


> Having had a think about this and being as objective as I can, I've decided that Professor Gates is a big sook



I think everyone has pretty much come to that same conclusion.  It's just that there are a couple here that are afraid it might make them racist to acknowledge it.


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## Lonestar_logic (Jul 22, 2009)

Diuretic said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



Perhaps, but I'd settle for any police procedure written anywhere in the continental US that made such a distinction.

In full disclosure I've studied criminal justice for four years.


----------



## del (Jul 22, 2009)

manifold said:


> Diuretic said:
> 
> 
> > Having had a think about this and being as objective as I can, I've decided that Professor Gates is a big sook
> ...



maybe it would help them if they knew that one of the responding officers (figueroa) is black. then we can shift the conversation from racism to black on black crime, while still ignoring the fact that gates is an elitist, maumauing asshole.


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## Lonestar_logic (Jul 22, 2009)

Diuretic said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/...1docket_redacted_revised__1248200728_6644.pdf
> ...



Police reports are public records.


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

Coloradomtnman said:


> Perhaps his neighbors called the cops because it looked like someone was breaking into the house and race had nothing to do with it.  But there is room for doubt...


Apparently the caller reported two big black men with knapsacks on their backs. When it was actually one big black man and one small black man with suitcases.


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

Shogun said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Shogun said:
> ...


Be my guest. Professor Henry Higgins.


----------



## manifold (Jul 22, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Coloradomtnman said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps his neighbors called the cops because it looked like someone was breaking into the house and race had nothing to do with it.  But there is room for doubt...
> ...



Well, she got the black part right at least.


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## Diuretic (Jul 22, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Coloradomtnman said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps his neighbors called the cops because it looked like someone was breaking into the house and race had nothing to do with it.  But there is room for doubt...
> ...



That's not bad.  The memory function is reconstructive, we remember what we think we saw, unless someone has a an eidetic memory they're simply reconstructing impressions.


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

del said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > Diuretic said:
> ...


"Figueroa" sounds portagee to me.


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## manifold (Jul 22, 2009)

Anguille said:


> "Figueroa" sounds portagee to me.



What, no capital P ya fuck'n bigot!


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## Diuretic (Jul 22, 2009)

Lonestar_logic said:


> Diuretic said:
> 
> 
> > Lonestar_logic said:
> ...



For an arrest to be valid there has to be adherence to the law.  I don't know what the law is in Mass. or Tx but where I am a police officer can arrest someone on reasonable suspicion of committing, being about to commit or having committed, any offence - any offence at all.  Where I am you can carry on like a two-bob watch in your own home but provided no-one is in danger you won't face arrest.  However, it is an offence to behave in a disorderly manner in a public place and it's highly likely that you will be pinched.  That's all I know.


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## Shogun (Jul 22, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...



Feeling silly yet?

"What?  Of course we are having class today, baby flay!  Ain't gotta give me none of that class is cancelled if I don't show in fifteen minutes, Mama.  Today we be PAINTIN' the economics lesson!  DY NO MIIITE!"


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

Diuretic said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Coloradomtnman said:
> ...


Exactly. So instead of seeing her neighbor and his driver having trouble opening his front door, she saw two black guys breaking and entering. Who know what she would have seen if they were white or even women? 
Don't get me wrong. I think she was right to call it in to the police. I'd be grateful if it was my home. But Coloradomntman isn't off base to suggest the caller could possibly have been influenced by stereotyping when she made the decision to call it in.


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## Coloradomtnman (Jul 22, 2009)

manifold said:


> So what do you call it when someone says that a randomly selected black man is likely to have a lower IQ than a randomly selected white man?



Sorry, didn't see it.

I think its a false analogy.  Here's what I mean:

Americans are taught to believe that black men are dangerous.  That they are criminals (except the harmless ones like Gary Coleman, Michael Jackson, Erkle [sp.?], etc.).  The media for decades presented it that way.  Like in Dirty Harry where Clint's eating a hamburger and the bank is being robbed by black men, or in the sequel, Sudden Impact, where he's getting coffee when the diner gets robbed by black men both scenes you should remember because that's when Clint utters those famous one liners:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MJPAWG-BC0]YouTube - Dirty Harry - Clint Eastwood[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIi3MRwElrU]YouTube - Sudden Impact (Diner Scene)[/ame]

Or many other movies, tv shows, and even the news.  I don't think its so much about the color of their skin as it is that black men have been portrayed this way for so long and people really buy into it.

I also think its "cultural-ism" instead of race-ism.  White people aren't part of black culture and vice versa, generally speaking.  Who would you be more scared of if you ran into them in a dark alley, a black guy like Carlton, or a white guy like Jay-Z?  Remember, Gates' huge black driver was helping him force the front door open.  Doesn't Gates' neighbors know him and recognize him?  Or did they just see two black guys breaking in and not stop to think about it for a second?  Its perceived that the culture of black men that is criminal, and not so much their genetic make-up.

Comparing that with trying to find genetic deficiencies or inequalities between the two races doesn't really, in my opinion, compare the same.  One is about perception of a group based on genes (you example) and the other is about how white people in a wealthy neighborhood could likely react due to mis-perception brought about by misrepresentation about a group of people.


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## Shogun (Jul 22, 2009)

As you know, Mitch and I were working on the cyanide system. Well, earlier today it ate itself. But, these little set-backs are just what we need to take a giant step forward. Right, Kent? Needless to say, I was a little despondent about the melt down, but then, in the midst of my preparations for hari kiri, it came to me. It is possible to synthesize excited bromide in an argon matrix. Yes, it's an excimer frozen in its excited state.

but FIRST..


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## Lonestar_logic (Jul 22, 2009)

Diuretic said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> > Diuretic said:
> ...



Fair enough.


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

manifold said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > "Figueroa" sounds portagee to me.
> ...


  Shad up, ya suburban canine eugenicist!!


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## Lonestar_logic (Jul 22, 2009)

Coloradomtnman said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > So what do you call it when someone says that a randomly selected black man is likely to have a lower IQ than a randomly selected white man?
> ...



What a crock of shit!! I've never been taught that black men were dangerous or they were criminals! You folks in Colorado are a bunch of racist!! And using movies to make your point is fucking hilarious.  I guess you folks in Colorado freaked out when Shaft hit the scene huh?


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## Diuretic (Jul 22, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Diuretic said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...



I don't know if she was infuenced by stereotyping but I suspect there might be something in that - and that's only human isn't it?  

If the two men were white and wearing suits she might have thought they were detectives, especially if a tan coloured Crown Vic was at the front of the house.  She might have shrugged her shoulders and forgot about it.  Maybe she thought about calling the police but then may have thought she would look silly if they really were cops.  But then she would probably have expected detectives not to do that in her neighbourhood.  In a poor, crime-ridden neighbourhood the residents might well perceive two men in suits going through a front door as detectives.  

I'd say that the sight of two black men forcing the front door probably motivated her more to call the police than if they'd been two white men similarly dressed due to that reconstruction effect.  

One thing I do now, it's more useful to be frank about these things than to curtail thinking by self-censorship due to white middle class guilt or to resort to cries of racism due to some sort of shared resentment.  The useful thing about this thread is that people's real thoughts and feelings can be expressed, that's healthy, those thoughts and feelings can be examined.  Okay the debate can get heated but as Milton said, "that which purifies us is trial, and trial is by what is contrary".


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

Shogun said:


> Now.  did you want to pinpoint the flaw in my logic


I think mani did just that. A few posts back.



manifold said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Why couldn't a "typical ******" become a Harvard professor?
> ...


----------



## Ravi (Jul 22, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Coloradomtnman said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps his neighbors called the cops because it looked like someone was breaking into the house and race had nothing to do with it.  But there is room for doubt...
> ...


That was weird. Prolly the caller actually was stereotyping, imagining back packs. I'm surprised she didn't say they had boom boxes on their shoulders.


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## Shogun (Jul 22, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> > Now.  did you want to pinpoint the flaw in my logic
> ...



um.. i'm not sure you are reading that the same way I read his post, Ang...


YOu might wanna drag him in here and rethink that a little bit.


----------



## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

Diuretic said:


> I don't know if she was infuenced by stereotyping but I suspect there might be something in that - and that's only human isn't it?
> 
> If the two men were white and wearing suits she might have thought they were detectives, especially if a tan coloured Crown Vic was at the front of the house.  She might have shrugged her shoulders and forgot about it.  Maybe she thought about calling the police but then may have thought she would look silly if they really were cops.  But then she would probably have expected detectives not to do that in her neighbourhood.  In a poor, crime-ridden neighbourhood the residents might well perceive two men in suits going through a front door as detectives.
> 
> ...



I'm not condemning the woman. I agree it's only human to stereotype and you could argue that some measure of stereotyping is useful in this very complex and fast moving world. She probably wanted to be safe rather than sorry. I don't think that her actions make her a racist nor do the cop's indicate he was using some sort of racial profiling. (And incidentally, Gates and his driver _were_ wearing suits).

And I agree that it's best to be frank about these things. If Gates was being an ass, (and I think he was) he can't be excused because he's black and also Harvard professor and known liberal. I say call a spade a spade.  

WHOOPS!!


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Coloradomtnman said:
> ...



And do-rags/ lol!
I think she most definitely was. And this story goes to show that everyone, not just Gates, can jump to the wrong conclusions. 

I bet this woman is laying low. I'd be a little embarrassed.


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

My own stereotypes became apparent to me when reading the article and I realized I had automatically assumed the arresting officer was white, before anything in the article gave me reason to think that.


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## Coloradomtnman (Jul 22, 2009)

Lonestar_logic said:


> What a crock of shit!! I've never been taught that black men were dangerous or they were criminals! You folks in Colorado are a bunch of racist!!



Then I guess, in your opinion, we're no better than 





			
				Lonestar_logic said:
			
		

> blacks





Lonestar_logic said:


> And using movies to make your point is fucking hilarious.



Great argument, you're a genius!

I was stating that movies, tv, and the media have portrayed black men as criminals and used two movies to illustrate that.  How does that NOT support my point?



Lonestar_logic said:


> I guess you folks in Colorado freaked out when Shaft hit the scene huh?



Not as much as you folks in Texas freaked out when Obama won the election!

US election: Republicans in Texas shattered by Obama win | World news | guardian.co.uk


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

And then when I saw his name, I then thought "Hot headed Irish man, that supports my theory even more that both Gates and the officer were initially responsible for the misunderstanding.


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## Diuretic (Jul 22, 2009)

It's a chance to clear the air.  This is what's wrong with political correctness, it creates a stifling atmosphere which breeds nutcases like the KKK.  

Gates has actually contributed to the continuing existence of that stifling atmosphere.  I can smell the resentment from here.  

He's a foolish, egotistical but damaged man.  

Instead of being reasonable with the first cop he allowed his long-held resentments to control him.  

The first cop, realising it was going to get racial, called his supervisor.  I'd say the first cop at that stage worked out that Gates was the house owner (assuming Gates had done the reasonable thing and confirmed his identify as the house owner) and just knew Gates would beef him so called his supervisor for backup - not physically but backup on policy, "hey Sarge, I didn't ask him for his id because he's black, I asked him for his id because he was found in a house which was reportedly being broken into!"

In a parallel universe the first cop turned up and found Gates and his driver in the house.  The first cop not unnaturally asked them who they were.  Laughlngly Gates pulled out his id and told the cop what had happened, said that he felt a bit foolish  but thanked the cop for attending and asked if he could speak to the neighbour an thank her for being a good neighbour.  The cop apologised, Gates waved his hand and said it was totally unnecessary and to "stay safe out there".  The two men shook hands and the cop left.  And none of us knew about it.  But in that parallel universe Gates wasn't haunted by demons.


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## Ravi (Jul 22, 2009)

Anguille said:


> My own stereotypes became apparent to me when reading the article and I realized I had automatically assumed the arresting officer was white, before anything in the article gave me reason to think that.


Yar...this reminds me of the test I posted at the other forum that everyone was afraid to take because it reveals that everyone is racist (ethnist) and sexist to a certain extent.

It does amaze me that somehow it is a shocker and considered worse when blacks display these tendencies.


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

Ravi said:


> It does amaze me that somehow it is a shocker and considered worse when blacks display these tendencies.


I'm going to go out on a stereotyping limb and say that is mostly the case with spoiled white guys.


----------



## Shogun (Jul 22, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFjS...films-you-should-know&feature=player_embedded


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## Shogun (Jul 22, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > It does amaze me that somehow it is a shocker and considered worse when blacks display these tendencies.
> ...



I guess two silly white bitches who have been spanked like bad girls might think so.


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

Shogun said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


I knew you would say something like that.  

Man, do I ever have you pigeonholed!!


----------



## BrianH (Jul 22, 2009)

Someone probably saw him in the yard, thought the professor was still in China and called the cops.  It wouldn't have mattered if he was a white man or a black man.  The problem is when police officers make mistakes, citizens someone receive an enema full of courage and start talking shit.  I've seen it happen several times where someone proves innocents and then starts mouthing off and being disrespectful (as if they've never been wrong before).  

This is the fault of the professor and the officer for letting the situation escalate.  This man could have simply stated that he lived there, showed some ID and calmly explained his situation, but he chose the other route.  The officer should have run the address to see whose home it was, that way when the professor identified himself, the officer would know who it was.


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## ba1614 (Jul 22, 2009)

Coloradomtnman said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> > What a crock of shit!! I've never been taught that black men were dangerous or they were criminals! You folks in Colorado are a bunch of racist!!
> ...



 lol, that's rich, using a picture from a Canadian football game to make a point about Texans.


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## Valerie (Jul 22, 2009)

You would not believe the comments Obama JUST made about this professor in the closing of his speech tonight.


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## Valerie (Jul 22, 2009)

Valerie said:


> You would not believe the comments Obama JUST made about this professor in the closing of his speech tonight.




I can't find it any where yet, but FTR -- I think he was out of line with is comments on this case.


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## Ravi (Jul 22, 2009)

*Question*: Thank you, Mr. President. Recently, Professor Henry Louis Gates, Jr., was arrested at his home in Cambridge. What does that incident say to you and what does it say about race relations in America?
*Obama*: Well, I should say at the outset that Skip Gates is a friend, so I may be a little biased here. I don't know all the facts.
 What's been reported though is that the guy forgot his keys, jimmied his way to get into the house. There was a report called in to the police station that there might be a burglary taking place. So far, so good, right? I mean, if I was trying to jigger into -- well, I guess this is my house now, so...
 (Laughter)
 ... it probably wouldn't happen. But let's say my old house in Chicago.
 (Laughter)
 Here, I'd get shot.
 (Laughter)
 But so far, so good. They're -- they're reporting. The police are doing what they should. There's a call. They go investigate what happens.
 My understanding is, at that point, Professor Gates is already in his house. The police officer comes in. I'm sure there's some exchange of words. But my understanding is, is that Professor Gates then shows his ID to show that this is his house and, at that point, he gets arrested for disorderly conduct, charges which are later dropped.
 Now, I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played in that. But I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry; number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home; and, number three, what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there's a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately. That's just a fact.
 As you know, Lynn, when I was in the state legislature in Illinois, we worked on a racial profiling bill because there was indisputable evidence that blacks and Hispanics were being stopped disproportionately. And that is a sign, an example of how, you know, race remains a factor in the society.
 That doesn't lessen the incredible progress that has been made. I am standing here as testimony to the progress that's been made. And yet the fact of the matter is, is that, you know, this still haunts us.
 And even when there are honest misunderstandings, the fact that blacks and Hispanics are picked up more frequently and often time for no cause casts suspicion even when there is good cause.
 And that's why I think the more that we're working with local law enforcement to improve policing techniques so that we're eliminating potential bias, the safer everybody is going to be.
 All right? Thank you, everybody.

I dunno if what he said is right or wrong. But don't you think it's fucked up that he's even asked about this?


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## Valerie (Jul 22, 2009)

*Question*: Thank you, Mr. President. Recently, Professor Henry Louis Gates, Jr., was arrested at his home in Cambridge. What does that incident say to you and what does it say about race relations in America?
*Obama*: *Well, I should say {at the outset} that Skip Gates is a friend, so I may be a little biased here. I don't know all the facts.*

>>  

 What's been reported though is that the guy forgot his keys, jimmied his way to get into the house. There was a report called in to the police station that there might be a burglary taking place. So far, so good, right? I mean, if I was trying to jigger into -- well, I guess this is my house now, so...

 (Laughter)

 ... it probably wouldn't happen. But let's say my old house in Chicago.

 (Laughter)

 Here, I'd get shot.

 (Laughter)

 But so far, so good. They're -- they're reporting. The police are doing what they should. There's a call. They go investigate what happens.
 My understanding is, at that point, Professor Gates is already in his house. The police officer comes in. I'm sure there's some exchange of words. But my understanding is, is that Professor Gates then shows his ID to show that this is his house and, at that point, he gets arrested for disorderly conduct, charges which are later dropped.
 Now, I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played in that. But I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry; number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home; and, number three, what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there's a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately. That's just a fact.

 As you know, Lynn, when I was in the state legislature in Illinois, we worked on a racial profiling bill because there was indisputable evidence that blacks and Hispanics were being stopped disproportionately. And that is a sign, an example of how, you know, race remains a factor in the society.

 That doesn't lessen the incredible progress that has been made. I am standing here as testimony to the progress that's been made. And yet the fact of the matter is, is that, you know, this still haunts us.

 And even when there are honest misunderstandings, the fact that blacks and Hispanics are picked up more frequently and often time for no cause casts suspicion even when there is good cause.

 And that's why I think the more that we're working with local law enforcement to improve policing techniques so that we're eliminating potential bias, the safer everybody is going to be.
 All right? Thank you, everybody.






Ravi said:


> I dunno if what he said is right or wrong. But don't you think it's fucked up that he's even asked about this?




Yes, and that he answered at all, never mind what he said which was over the line.  He should have stopped where I highlighted above and not made any such judgmental statements about the police in this particular incident.


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## WillowTree (Jul 22, 2009)

Ravi said:


> *Question*: Thank you, Mr. President. Recently, Professor Henry Louis Gates, Jr., was arrested at his home in Cambridge. What does that incident say to you and what does it say about race relations in America?
> *Obama*: Well, I should say at the outset that Skip Gates is a friend, so I may be a little biased here. I don't know all the facts.
> What's been reported though is that the guy forgot his keys, jimmied his way to get into the house. There was a report called in to the police station that there might be a burglary taking place. So far, so good, right? I mean, if I was trying to jigger into -- well, I guess this is my house now, so...
> (Laughter)
> ...






an appropriately sophisticated leader would have declined comment based on the pending investigation.. for sure now the cop cannot possibly get a fair and impartial ruling.. that's what's fucked.


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

* "**Well, I should say {at the outset} that Skip Gates is a friend, so I may be a little biased here. I don't know all the facts.**"

*He makes that clear in the beginning. I think it was a sleazy thing to do to ask him this question. Not a wise thing for him to give such a lengthy answer, but I don't see much to find fault with what he said. Obviously, like he said, he's biased towards believing his friend.


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> an appropriately sophisticated leader would have declined comment based on the pending investigation.. for sure now the cop cannot possibly get a fair and impartial ruling.. that's what's fucked.


Has the cop been charged with anything?


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## WillowTree (Jul 22, 2009)

Anguille said:


> * "**Well, I should say {at the outset} that Skip Gates is a friend, so I may be a little biased here. I don't know all the facts.**"
> 
> *He makes that clear in the beginning. I think it was a sleazy thing to do to ask him this question. Not a wise thing for him to give such a lengthy answer, but I don't see much to find fault with what he said. Obviously, like he said, he's biased towards believing his friend.



yes, and he just "biased" a whole lot of other people too. and he calls himself an attorney? ha!


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## WillowTree (Jul 22, 2009)

Anguille said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > an appropriately sophisticated leader would have declined comment based on the pending investigation.. for sure now the cop cannot possibly get a fair and impartial ruling.. that's what's fucked.
> ...



don't these matter automatically fall under IE?


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## Valerie (Jul 22, 2009)

Anguille said:


> * "**Well, I should say {at the outset} that Skip Gates is a friend, so I may be a little biased here. I don't know all the facts.**"
> 
> *He makes that clear in the beginning. I think it was a sleazy thing to do to ask him this question. Not a wise thing for him to give such a lengthy answer, but I don't see much to find fault with what he said. Obviously, like he said, he's biased towards believing his friend.




He's the president!   


The president should NOT be making such judgmental statements against police officers in particular cases...It's beyond not wise in my opinion.  He ended his speech with this statement, no less!  I found it offensive.


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## Anguille (Jul 22, 2009)

Valerie said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > * "**Well, I should say {at the outset} that Skip Gates is a friend, so I may be a little biased here. I don't know all the facts.**"
> ...


The Cambridge police officer did act stupidly. Regardless, I agree that Obama ought not to have cast any aspersions on the Cambridge Police Dept's conduct. I don't think it's going to cause race riots or anything that he did so.


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## Valerie (Jul 23, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
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Fine if YOU want to shoot your mouth off with an opinion even though you weren't there and don't know all the facts either, but NOT fine for the president to do.   

As for causing racial tension, we'll see just how well his foolish and inflammatory remarks go over.    My husband I both looked up at each other with dropped jaws as soon as the words came out of his mouth.


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## manifold (Jul 23, 2009)

Valerie said:


> You would not believe the comments Obama JUST made about this professor in the closing of his speech tonight.



You're right.  I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't hear it for myself.


Oh, and fwiw, Obama has lost my vote forever... and my respect.


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## Ravi (Jul 23, 2009)

manifold said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > You would not believe the comments Obama JUST made about this professor in the closing of his speech tonight.
> ...


 From the bozo that didn't blink an eye when Obama's campaign portrayed Hillary as a racist and in fact jumped right on that bandwagon.


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## manifold (Jul 23, 2009)

Ravi said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > Valerie said:
> ...



Even bozos can learn.


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## Anguille (Jul 23, 2009)

Valerie said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Valerie said:
> ...



Once Obama was asked the question, he was dammed if he answered it and dammed if he didn't.

I don't think saying the police acted stupidly, (which they did) is inflammatory. Especially considering what he said afterwards. Obama should remain neutral at this point, seeing as he is president.


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## Anguille (Jul 23, 2009)

manifold said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > You would not believe the comments Obama JUST made about this professor in the closing of his speech tonight.
> ...


You've always been too schenshitive.


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## Shogun (Jul 23, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Shogun said:
> 
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> > Anguille said:
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and I knew YOU would say something like THAT!  pigeonholed, indeed.


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## Trigg (Jul 23, 2009)

I didn't go through all 20 pages so if this is a reprint sorry.

Here is a copy of the poiice report. From this it sounds like the guy was out for a fight from the very beginning.

He admits that his house has been broken into before and instead of being greatfull for a quick response time starts bitching to the officer. 

Obama should not have commented since he didnt' have all the facts. If he did maybe he would have realized that one of those oppressed minorities backed up the first officers report. Guess that latino didn't get the memmo that whitey is always wrong.


Henry Louis Gates, Jr. Police Report - July 23, 2009


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## Anguille (Jul 23, 2009)

Trigg said:


> I didn't go through all 20 pages so if this is a reprint sorry.
> 
> Here is a copy of the poiice report. From this it sounds like the guy was out for a fight from the very beginning.
> 
> ...


  There aren't 20 pages and that story differs from the police report already posted a few times on this board. In any case, it doesn't provide evidence that Gates did anything more than provoke a police officer into losing his sense of good judgment and making an unnecessary arrest.


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## manifold (Jul 23, 2009)

Hot off the press...

Officer Crowley says, and I paraphrase, _Fuck you. I didn't do anything wrong so I ain't apologizing for shit!_

And I say good for him.


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## WillowTree (Jul 23, 2009)

manifold said:


> Hot off the press...
> 
> Officer Crowley says, and I paraphrase, _Fuck you. I didn't do anything wrong so I ain't apologizing for shit!_
> 
> And I say good for him.



does theeeese mean he will not go for "education" doyathink? oh my!


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## Anguille (Jul 23, 2009)

manifold said:


> Hot off the press...
> 
> Officer Crowley says, and I paraphrase, _Fuck you. I didn't do anything wrong so I ain't apologizing for shit!_
> 
> And I say good for him.


  He said that the other day. Old news. Maybe not the Fuck you part.

He won't apologize. A cop that can't handle being called names is not likely to ever admit he was wrong.

But charges were dropped. And that tells all.


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## manifold (Jul 23, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > Hot off the press...
> ...



Probably not.  Especially since he's already the guy who teaches the racial sensitivity course at the Cambridge Police Department.


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## manifold (Jul 23, 2009)

angry-eel said:
			
		

> charges were dropped. And that tells fuck all.



ita.


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## Anguille (Jul 23, 2009)

You micks all stick together.


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## Shogun (Jul 23, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Valerie said:
> 
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> > Anguille said:
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oh give me a break. that question didn't jump out of a fucking tree like a ninja.  Obama knew goddamn well who to ask with what question.  If he didn't want to chime in then he didn't have to.  I expected a more savvy response from him.  Running to aid his friend is very bad form.


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## WillowTree (Jul 23, 2009)

I don't think saying the police acted stupidly, (which they did) is inflammatory. Especially considering what he said afterwards. Obama should remain neutral at this point, seeing as he is president.



bullshit


out of one side of his mouth he said "I don't know the facts... then out of the biased side of his mouth he said "The Cambridge police acted stupidly." now explain to us how he could rationally follow the first statement with the second! We will wait!


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## Anguille (Jul 23, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> I don't think saying the police acted stupidly, (which they did) is inflammatory. Especially considering what he said afterwards. Obama should remain neutral at this point, seeing as he is president.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's only inflammatory to people with agendas like yourself.


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## WillowTree (Jul 23, 2009)

Anguille said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think saying the police acted stupidly, (which they did) is inflammatory. Especially considering what he said afterwards. Obama should remain neutral at this point, seeing as he is president.
> ...



so you cannot rationally explain how the first statement could rationally be followed by the second?? is that right?  oh! and btw,, after what we saw and heard last night don't ever tell us he represents "all the people".


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## Anguille (Jul 23, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Anguille said:
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## WillowTree (Jul 23, 2009)

Anguille said:


> WillowTree said:
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I didn't think you could do it.. take two of those and call somebody who cares in the morning! Nice try though!


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## Anguille (Jul 23, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Anguille said:
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> > WillowTree said:
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Did you read my previous comments on Obama's actions? I thought not. I criticized his actions. But keep patting yourself on the back if it makes you feel important.


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## WillowTree (Jul 23, 2009)

Anguille said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
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you can't have it both ways,,newp!


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## Againsheila (Jul 23, 2009)

Anguille said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think saying the police acted stupidly, (which they did) is inflammatory. Especially considering what he said afterwards. Obama should remain neutral at this point, seeing as he is president.
> ...




It sure as heck seemed inflamatory to me, ya want to tell me what my "agenda" is?


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## WillowTree (Jul 23, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
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She can't really get by with saying that.. he is the leader he has lots of influence of course his diatribe was inflamatory.


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## Anguille (Jul 23, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


So what has it exactly got you up in arms about?  That the president pointed out that this issue shows us that despite lots of progress in racial equality there still remains work to be done?

Does it bother you he said some policemen acted stupidly?  They did and we all know they do sometimes. I don't think he's risking national security by admitting our police sometimes make mistakes. This is America. We can discuss things openly. 
 But as I said before, I think it was imprudent of him to speak ill of a police force simply because of the stature of his position.


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## manifold (Jul 23, 2009)

I wonder if Obama's inappropriate remarks may have been influenced by recent allegations by blacks that he's an Uncle Tom (following his speech to the NAACP).


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## Anguille (Jul 23, 2009)

manifold said:


> I wonder if Obama's inappropriate remarks may have been influenced by recent allegations by blacks that he's an Uncle Tom (following his speech to the NAACP).


Are those remarks intended to be inflammatory ?


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## Lonestar_logic (Jul 23, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...



There will never be racial equality. Case in point, Gates accused the police offcer of being  a racist for no reason other than the cop was white. And another point being that most blacks believe they are societal victims and again Gates provides evidence of that as well.


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## WillowTree (Jul 23, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...



yeah specially since he started off with not knowing what the hell he was talking about ie facts are in absentia! hee hee hee!


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## Againsheila (Jul 23, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
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He said he didn't know all the facts, and then called the cop stupid, basically blaming him for the entire affair when he already admited he didn't know all the facts.  Blaming the cop after saying he didn't know all the facts is not only stupid, but inflamitory.  

Now, you want to answer my question and tell me what my agenda is?


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## GHook93 (Jul 23, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



Obama is good at doing that!

But Obama to his credit I think has gotten away from the racial politics that most blacks thrive politician thrive on. Doesn't apologize for the black communities misfortunes by blaming them on whites. I think America has been good at moving away from that and I think that black apologist and blaming whites that Jackson/Sharpton/Wright spew was losing steam. They will use this and I think Obama is upset that an ignorant police officer set race relations back overnight!


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## Anguille (Jul 23, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...


I don't know what yours is but Willow seems to want to make a big deal about it. She isn't exactly known to be a big fan of Obama or racial equality.


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## WillowTree (Jul 23, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
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I am not a fan of the obamalama,, I am a fan of racial equality.. and not just one race,, as you seem to be,, but all races..


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## Diuretic (Jul 23, 2009)

ba1614 said:


> Coloradomtnman said:
> 
> 
> > Lonestar_logic said:
> ...



By George you're right - looks like a Hamilton Tigercats v BC Lions game from the fans shirts.


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## Ravi (Jul 23, 2009)

It seems to me this man was arrested for insinuating that the police were racist, rather loudly.

I wonder if all those that think he deserved to be arrested also support hate crime laws...because really, it seems that was the reason behind his arrest.


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## manifold (Jul 23, 2009)

Ravi said:


> It seems to me this man was arrested for insinuating that the police were racist, rather loudly.
> 
> I wonder if all those that think he deserved to be arrested also support hate crime laws...because really, it seems that was the reason behind his arrest.





Okie-dokie.


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## Anguille (Jul 23, 2009)

Ravi said:


> It seems to me this man was arrested for insinuating that the police were racist, rather loudly.
> 
> I wonder if all those that think he deserved to be arrested also support hate crime laws...because really, it seems that was the reason behind his arrest.


It certainly would seem so.


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## del (Jul 23, 2009)

Ravi said:


> It seems to me this man was arrested for insinuating that the police were racist, rather loudly.
> 
> I wonder if all those that think he deserved to be arrested also support hate crime laws...because really, it seems that was the reason behind his arrest.


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## Valerie (Jul 23, 2009)

Ravi said:


> It seems to me this man was arrested for insinuating that the police were racist, rather loudly.
> 
> I wonder if all those that think he deserved to be arrested also support hate crime laws...because really, it seems that was the reason behind his arrest.




What makes you think he was a arrested _because _he cried racism?

There is not one shred of evidence that suggests the officer acted inappropriately. 

Mr Gates cried racism just for the fact that the officer merely showed up at his door.  He was upset that the neighbor profiled him and wanted to make sure everyone knew who he was.  

He was loud and obnoxious toward the officer who was there only to do his job.  He threatened to sue.  He continued yelling at the police in the street after being warned to stop.  The officer responded by taking him down town and putting it all on record.  Boo hoo.

None of the officers' actions at the scene were observed to be racially motivated or inappropriate in any way whatsoever, yet some people are so eagerly willing to profile a white Boston police officer, what's up with that?







> *Disorderly Conduct
> *
> Almost every state has a disorderly conduct law that makes it a crime to be drunk in public, to "disturb the peace", or to loiter in certain areas. Many types of obnoxious or unruly conduct may fit the definition of disorderly conduct, as such statutes are often used as "catch-all" crimes. Police may use a disorderly conduct charge to keep the peace when a person is behaving in a disruptive manner, but presents no serious public danger.




Mr Gates got what any of us would deserve under the same circumstances, IMO.


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## Againsheila (Jul 23, 2009)

Valerie said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > It seems to me this man was arrested for insinuating that the police were racist, rather loudly.
> ...



The difference is, had it been one of us, the charges wouldn't have been dropped.


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## Anguille (Jul 23, 2009)

Valerie said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > It seems to me this man was arrested for insinuating that the police were racist, rather loudly.
> ...


"When a Cambridge police sergeant told Harvard scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. that he &#8220;would speak with him outside,&#8221; the officer may have intended to draw the incensed professor outside of his home where he would be an easier target to arrest, legal experts told the Herald.
 &#8220;It seems like the officer felt like he needed to get him out of his house to have the public element of disorderly conduct met,&#8221; said Howard Friedman, a Boston civil rights lawyer. &#8220;The officer seems to think that if he could get him yelling outside his home, that is a crime.&#8221;
 Friedman, who believes that Gates has grounds to sue Cambridge cops for false arrest, said for a person to be guilty of disorderly conduct, they must, according to state statute, cause a &#8220;public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm.&#8221;
  ...

Eugene O&#8217;Donnell, a lawyer and former NYPD officer who lectures at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York, said the disorderly conduct charge is &#8220;vague and ambiguous. And it can be used as a punitive measure against people who are seen as uncooperative.&#8221;

Experts: Disorderly conduct rap &lsquo;ambiguous&rsquo; - BostonHerald.com

&#8220;The police did their job,&#8221; said the neighbor. &#8220;He should be thanking them. But they shouldn&#8217;t have arrested him. He had just gotten off a 20-hour flight. He couldn&#8217;t get his door open. He got frustrated . . . They should have just said forget it.&#8221;

Henry Louis Gates Jr. demands apology, sensitivity training - BostonHerald.com


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## Valerie (Jul 23, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



Mr Gates was unruly from the outset and threatened the officer with a lawsuit for merely answering a B&E call; he cried racist for no rational reason.  

His behavior provoked a response that required an arrest in order to legally diffuse the situation.


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## Anguille (Jul 23, 2009)

Valerie said:


> His behavior provoked a response that required an arrest in order to legally diffuse the situation.


  I totally disagree. The officer did not need to arrest him to diffuse the situation. He should have allowed Gates to get his name and badge number for one thing and then left. He was there to investigate a reported breaking and entering which was resolved. That he decided to go back and arrest Gates for calling him a racist shows that the officer wanted to show Gates who would have the last word. There was no concern for public safety or for keeping peace and order at all. The only concern in the officer's mind was his ego.


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## Valerie (Jul 23, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > His behavior provoked a response that required an arrest in order to legally diffuse the situation.
> ...




That sounds like a pretty handy projection on your part, however it is not exactly commensurate with the actual circumstances.  Mr Gates is the only one who demonstrated his ego at the scene as he is the one who escalated the situation and cried racist for no rational reason.  The officer was prompted to respond by simply demonstrating standard legal procedure in order to diffuse the escalated situation as provoked by Mr Gates.


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## Anguille (Jul 23, 2009)

Valerie said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Valerie said:
> ...


Is it against the law to cry racist? If standard legal procedure means every cop must arrest every person that calls him a name our prisons are going to explode. Does the eyewitness' assessment of the situation not matter to you? Does Gates' own version not matter? Are police reports the only valid evidence in a case?
Are you going to claim, like Sheila does, that Obama pulled strings and got the charges dropped?


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## WillowTree (Jul 23, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...



What obama pulled was the "race" card..


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## Valerie (Jul 23, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
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It wasn't like he exactly whispered racist.    He was defiant and disorderly for a reason the officer could only guess until his identity was finally verified.  Crying racist is just what Mr Gates used to intimidate the police and they were compelled to respond after he refused to calm down.  He totally caused a scene for no reason.  



Note to self, professor:  Loudly threaten to sue the police for [fill in the type of] harassment during routine inquiry prompted by concerned citizen for suspected burglary, expect to be taken down town to complete some paperwork.


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## Anguille (Jul 23, 2009)

Valerie said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Valerie said:
> ...


  Look like you believe whatever the police say. 

Still, I wonder why you think a person can be arrested for being "disorderly" in their own home. Other the Good Housekeeping police, that is. 
 Any thoughts on why charges were dropped?


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## Againsheila (Jul 23, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...



Sure, the man is a Harvard professor with friends in high places...he can get away with disorderly conduct that would put you and I in jail.


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## Anguille (Jul 23, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> Sure, the man is a Harvard professor with friends in high places...he can get away with disorderly conduct that would put you and I in jail.


So what is that you resent the most about him, Sheila? That he is black or that he is rich? Or both?


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## Valerie (Jul 23, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...




Looks like maybe you're predisposed to _not_ believe the police, just like Mr Gates who evidently had more of an emotional response to routine inquiry...?

I think the charges were dropped in order to defuse the legal situation as threatened by Mr Gates.  A compromise of sorts.  


I admittedly had an emotional reaction to seeing our president relight that fuse, however.


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## Ravi (Jul 23, 2009)

Valerie said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > It seems to me this man was arrested for insinuating that the police were racist, rather loudly.
> ...


I just don't agree that getting angry at a cop because the cop suspected you of wrong doing is a criminal offense. It's not like he was trying to harm the cop.


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## Ravi (Jul 23, 2009)

Valerie said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Valerie said:
> ...


Jesus, Val...you can't seriously think threatening to sue someone or calling them racist is a criminal offense.


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## Valerie (Jul 24, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...




  The charge was disorderly conduct, Ravi...routine stuff for people who defy the police and "get in their face".  Just wait until the tapes are released and it becomes crystal clear who got emotional and irrational at the scene, as witnessed by many people who described Mr Gates as behaving like a total maniac.


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## AllieBaba (Jul 24, 2009)

The give-away is that you can't be arrested for disorderly inside the house. The cop asked him to step outside, THEN arrested him for disorderly, and so  apparently knew he was the owner of the house then.


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## Valerie (Jul 24, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> The give-away is that you can't be arrested for disorderly inside the house. The cop asked him to step outside, THEN arrested him for disorderly, and so  apparently knew he was the owner of the house then.




Yesterday I heard the Massachusetts DA on the radio say that is a myth.

And the officer had trouble with radio transmission within the residence which is also on the tapes.


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## Lonestar_logic (Jul 24, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> The give-away is that you can't be arrested for disorderly inside the house. The cop asked him to step outside, THEN arrested him for disorderly, and so  apparently knew he was the owner of the house then.



It's amazing how many of you people fail at reading comprehension. He wasn't arrested inside his house and I challenge you to provide evidence that he was. The cop ask him to step outside BEFORE he knew he was the homeowner, again I challenge you to prooduce evidence to the contrary. 

Professor Gates, who has taught at Harvard for nearly two decades, arrived home on Thursday from a trip to China to find his front door jammed, said Charles J. Ogletree, a law professor at Harvard who is representing him. 

He forced the door open with the help of his cab driver, Professor Ogletree said, and* had been inside for a few minutes when Sgt. James Crowley of the Cambridge Police Department appeared at his door and asked him to step outside. *

*Professor Gates followed him outside, the report said, and yelled at him despite the sergeants warning that he was becoming disorderly. Sergeant Crowley then arrested and handcuffed him*. Professor Gates was held at police headquarters for hours before being released on his recognizance. 


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/us/21gates.html?_r=1


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## Anguille (Jul 24, 2009)

Valerie said:


> Looks like maybe you're predisposed to _not_ believe the police, just like Mr Gates who evidently had more of an emotional response to routine inquiry...?
> 
> I think the charges were dropped in order to defuse the legal situation as threatened by Mr Gates.  A compromise of sorts.
> 
> ...


  I'm not predisposed to not believe anyone. Having read the police report, I am disturbed by how Crowley choose to precede and what he chose to report. That charges were dropped points to his supervisors also having doubts about the legitimacy of the arrest.

Yes, the president's response definitely made the situation more complicated.


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## Anguille (Jul 24, 2009)

Valerie said:


> The charge was disorderly conduct, Ravi...routine stuff for people who defy the police and "get in their face".  Just wait until the tapes are released and it becomes crystal clear who got emotional and irrational at the scene, as witnessed by many people who described Mr Gates as behaving like a total maniac.


Like I said before, cops take guff all the time. It's not their job to arrest people who try to push their buttons, only those who actually commit crimes  and/or are creating genuine public disturbances. This cop should have kept walking away and gone back to doing real police work. Instead he turned around and decided to take off part of his work day to teach a guy a lesson about just what can be said to Officer Crowley.


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## Anguille (Jul 24, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> The give-away is that you can't be arrested for disorderly inside the house. The cop asked him to step outside, THEN arrested him for disorderly, and so  apparently knew he was the owner of the house then.


Even Allie Baba sees the plain truth here.


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## manifold (Jul 24, 2009)

Anguille said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > The give-away is that you can't be arrested for disorderly inside the house. The cop asked him to step outside, THEN arrested him for disorderly, and so  apparently knew he was the owner of the house then.
> ...



If that's not a huge red flag I don't know what is.


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## manifold (Jul 24, 2009)

Apparently Officer Crowley is now considering filing a lawsuit againts Gates for defamation of character.


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## Ravi (Jul 24, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > The charge was disorderly conduct, Ravi...routine stuff for people who defy the police and "get in their face".  Just wait until the tapes are released and it becomes crystal clear who got emotional and irrational at the scene, as witnessed by many people who described Mr Gates as behaving like a total maniac.
> ...


It's nice to agree with you for a change.  

If Gates had done anything wrong to begin with or if he acted this way for a traffic stop then the cops would have been justified for arresting him for disorderly conduct. Basically we have a crank that became emotional and dissed the cops while he was in his own home and on his front porch. 

Reminds me of the time the cops pulled me over for shooting a bird at them, which I didn't...and it wouldn't have been an offense if I had. Cops that can't handle cranky people should think about a career change.


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## Anguille (Jul 24, 2009)

Valerie said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > The give-away is that you can't be arrested for disorderly inside the house. The cop asked him to step outside, THEN arrested him for disorderly, and so  apparently knew he was the owner of the house then.
> ...


 
A myth that you can't be arrested for disorderly conduct in your own home? Supposing that were true? Doesn't that give you cause for concern?


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## Againsheila (Jul 24, 2009)

Anguille said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > The give-away is that you can't be arrested for disorderly inside the house. The cop asked him to step outside, THEN arrested him for disorderly, and so  apparently knew he was the owner of the house then.
> ...



Except that you CAN arrest someone for disorderly conduct, even in their own home.


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## Againsheila (Jul 24, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like maybe you're predisposed to _not_ believe the police, just like Mr Gates who evidently had more of an emotional response to routine inquiry...?
> ...



No that the charges were dropped points to Gates "friends in high places".  


Face it, if it were you or I, charges would have been filed.  But then again, if it was me at least, I wouldn't have been yelling at the officer like that.


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## Againsheila (Jul 24, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > The charge was disorderly conduct, Ravi...routine stuff for people who defy the police and "get in their face".  Just wait until the tapes are released and it becomes crystal clear who got emotional and irrational at the scene, as witnessed by many people who described Mr Gates as behaving like a total maniac.
> ...



Oh good grief, you are suggesting the officer should have walked away, leaving a yelling, out of control man standing there?  The cops can't do that, as long as Gates is out of control, it's up to them to get him back into control.  Failing that, they MUST arrest him.

Gates lost his cool.  The charges never should have been dropped, of course if they hadn't been Gates behavior would have been all over every news station in the country.  Everyone would know him for the fool that was totally out of control.  It would have cost Gates, BIG TIME.

As it stands now, it may end up costing this cop his career.  All because Gates has friends in high places and can get away with just about anything....


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## Anguille (Jul 24, 2009)

Ravi said:


> It's nice to agree with you for a change.
> 
> If Gates had done anything wrong to begin with or if he acted this way for a traffic stop then the cops would have been justified for arresting him for disorderly conduct. Basically we have a crank that became emotional and dissed the cops while he was in his own home and on his front porch.
> 
> Reminds me of the time the cops pulled me over for shooting a bird at them, which I didn't...and it wouldn't have been an offense if I had. *Cops that can't handle cranky people should think about a career change.*



We once got pulled over by a cop because my boyfriend did indeed shoot the bird at a cop. He had cut us off in traffic and nearly caused a collision. He was not on a police chase, he was just plain speeding. I can't remember if we knew he was a cop when when he cut us off because although he was in uniform he was in what looked like to be his own car. He pulled aside of us an told us to pull over. We did and he demanded driver's liscense and registration. He also started ranting about how you can't give a cop the finger. My bf remained calm and said. "Surely officer, you must agree that you were driving recklessly?" He then asked to see ID because the cop had no badge or name  tag. The cop then got control of himself, showed us his badge, mumbled something about being careful in traffic and beat the hell out of there. I think he may have been high or drunk or something. Or maybe just really stressed out. And I suspect he was off duty. We never reported it because he did back down in the end. But I have always felt a bit guilty that we didn't. Anyone who thinks cops don't lose it sometimes is naive.


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## Againsheila (Jul 24, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > It's nice to agree with you for a change.
> ...



Of course cops lose it sometimes, they're human.  So is Prof Gates who is the one that lost it this time and ended up getting arrested, and justifiably so.


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## manifold (Jul 24, 2009)

Peck said:
			
		

> Cops that don't have the stones to arrest *disorderly* people should think about a career change.



I couldn't agree more.


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## Anguille (Jul 24, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Valerie said:
> ...


No charges would have been filed in anyone's case because no crime was committed (other than the officer's abuse of power) and the police knew they couldn't prove one had.  I give the Cambridge Police credit for at least dropping the charges.


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## Againsheila (Jul 24, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...



Gates was guilty of disorderly conduct, exactly the reason he was arrested.


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## Anguille (Jul 24, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Valerie said:
> ...


The cop should have left the premises as soon as he realized Gates lived there. Have you ever been to a big city?  Raving lunatics wander everywhere. As long as they are no threat to anyone they are ignored. Gates' behavior did not even come close to that type of scenario.


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## Anguille (Jul 24, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...


Guilty in _your_ mind. The authorities disaggree.


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## manifold (Jul 24, 2009)

Has anyone else noticed how Angry Eel is now posting on this topic as if she was a first hand eyewitness?


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## Anguille (Jul 24, 2009)

manifold said:


> Has anyone else noticed how Angry Eel is now posting on this topic as if she was a first hand eyewitness?


Good one, mani. 

I was standing right behind RGS and Lonestar logic.

I'm surprised that a libertarian would be in favor of a police state.


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## manifold (Jul 24, 2009)

Anguille said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone else noticed how Angry Eel is now posting on this topic as if she was a first hand eyewitness?
> ...



Nice strawman.


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## del (Jul 24, 2009)

manifold said:


> Has anyone else noticed how Angry Eel is now posting on this topic as if she was a first hand eyewitness?



she's an expert, just ask her.


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## manifold (Jul 24, 2009)

del said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone else noticed how Angry Eel is now posting on this topic as if she was a first hand eyewitness?
> ...



She's morphing into KK before our very eyes.


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## del (Jul 24, 2009)

manifold said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > manifold said:
> ...



KK's amarter


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## Anguille (Jul 24, 2009)

Careful you, two, I'll call the cops and have you arrested for hurting my feewings.


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## AllieBaba (Jul 24, 2009)

So long as you remain in your house, it doesn't matter.

I'm not a big fan of cops. My gut feeling is that the professor was pissed off at the cop's attitude (they do have attitude, it goes with the territory) and probably went on a little rant in the house. Cop probably got pissed off and asked him to step outside, knowing full well the guy owned the house, and wanting to take him in for something. Because they're LIKE THAT. They're pumped full of adrenaline and way more than the normal share of testosterone, they're TAUGHT to be edgy, and they carry grudges. Idiot professor steps outside his house and whamo blamo, you're disturbing the peace moron, haha guess what, you're taking a ride.

Typical of the shit cops pull. They get their laughs where they can. Doesn't make it right, but it doesn't make it racist, either.


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## Bass v 2.0 (Jul 24, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



Which is exactly why the charges were dropped right? Cops arrest people for the most stupidest things, even charging people with battery for farting.


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## AllieBaba (Jul 24, 2009)

If it were me, I'd let it slide and start a private, quiet campaign aimed at getting rid of the cop. 

It's all about being subversive and living under the radar.....tell friends and family what an awful cop the guy is. Set up nasty little traps for him (call in for every single little thing and have everyone else do it while the cop's on duty.)

I have successfully waged such a campaign before...it does work. You just have to be mellow about it.


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## Bass v 2.0 (Jul 24, 2009)

The same idiots who are saying Gates was rightfully arrested for disorderly conduct would also agree with the cops charging this guy with battery for farting:

Prosecutors Drop Charge Related to "Passing Gas" in DUI Case


Not surprisingly the charge was dropped, nonetheless another example of the stupid things cops charge people with.


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## AllieBaba (Jul 24, 2009)

Farting is a whole different crime, and it should be punished to the full extent of the law, in my opinion.l


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## Bass v 2.0 (Jul 24, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Farting is a whole different crime, and it should be punished to the full extent of the law, in my opinion.l




So why aren't you in jail? Criminal! lol


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## AllieBaba (Jul 24, 2009)

I don't fart.


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## Bass v 2.0 (Jul 24, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> I don't fart.




Yeah sure you don't, the Bass thought you were Christian so why do you lie?


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## Valerie (Jul 24, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...





What do you think of the notion that it was Mr Gates who abused his power?  He flipped out at the police JUST because they had the nerve to be there questioning him.  He instantly got overly defensive toward the officer, grabbed his cell phone and immediately began calling his powerful friends.  He escalated the situation and acted as if he was above the law.  Ultimately he provoked the police to assert their authority in order to calm him down.  They warned him to stop ranting and he continued.  The officer was not responding to his race, he was responding to his disorderly behavior amidst the legal procedure the situation required.  

I'm repeating myself, but I think ANYONE who responds to routine inquiry the way this man evidently did, deserves to be arrested for disorderly conduct.  I wonder if some of you would feel the same way if this very same behavior was exhibited in the exact same situation and the person who was acting like an elitist brat toward the civil servant police was Jenna Bush for example?


WHY? BECAUSE I'M A BUSH?  DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?  I'M GONNA CALL MY DADDY AND TELL ON YOU!  I'M GONNA SUE YOU FOR HARASSMENT, YOU DON'T KNOW WHO YOU'RE MESSING WITH.  WAAA I'M CRANKY, YOU SEXIST PIG!  DON'T TOUCH ME!  THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO THE BUSHES IN AMERICA, HOW DARE YOU?  


Tell me you wouldn't be laughing at her and applauding the cops?


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## Ravi (Jul 24, 2009)

Valerie said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...


 I'd think Jenna was a twit just like I think Gates is a twit but that wouldn't mean the cops had the right to arrest either one of them.

So the cops were FORCED to arrest someone because he was a cranky fool?


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## Anguille (Jul 24, 2009)

manifold said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > manifold said:
> ...


Is this the same guy who declared World War 3 when Gunny banned him for disorderly conduct a while back?


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## del (Jul 24, 2009)

Anguille said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...



nice deflection.

run out of straw, rumplestiltskin?


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## Bass v 2.0 (Jul 24, 2009)

Unless Gates threatened and or physically assaulted the officer, the cop should have left, end of discussion. Cops need to have thick skin and not be overemotional wusses making unecessary arrests.


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## manifold (Jul 24, 2009)

Anguille said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...




Nice non-sequitur


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## Anguille (Jul 24, 2009)

Valerie said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...


When I first read about this incident I was disgusted by Gates' behavior and disillusioned about someone I have respect for. The shock of realizing that Gates is no different than a lot of famous people in that they can be arrogant and have trouble managing their anger since not many stand up to them made me initially sympathize with the officer. But the more I read about the case, it became more obvious to me that the officer did not behave in a professional manner or use common sense and it looks to me that he very likely tried to manipulate the situation with the intent of putting Gates in a position where he could arrest him. The cop was not acting in the best interest of the commonwealth. If he was, he would have left the premises as soon as he knew Gates was there legitimately. He had no business using his power as a police officer for revenge. His job is to maintain the peace, diffuse situations that might escalate in the professional manner in which he was trained and then get back to work once his job there was done. 

Gates did not abuse his power. He did not arrest the officer, handcuff him and have him held at the police station for four hours. Gates was behaving in a manner, while not admirable in the least, is not illegal within the confines of his own home. (I consider his front porch to be the confines of his home.) It's not even behavior considered by most police officers worth wasting time dealing with when it occurs in public areas. 
Officer Crowley is a pussy and a law breaker. 

They are both royal asswipes, IMO, but the police officer is the criminal here, not Gates.


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## Anguille (Jul 24, 2009)

Last fall firemen were mistakenly called to my neighbor's house by a third person. My neighbor is a young 30ish black guy who has always seemed like a nice courteous guy. But he went ballistic when it looked like the firemen had been about to break down his door. He followed them down his steps and onto the sidewalk yelling to keep off his property and quit harassing people and go fight some real fires. The firemen just looked at the guy shrugged thier shoulders and drove off. 

I've seen people get very nasty with cops in regular street encounters and demonstrations and I've been taunted as a racist myself (albeit by a 12 year old punk). Most cops know how to keep their cool. Good thing since they do carry guns.


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## del (Jul 24, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Last fall firemen were mistakenly called to my neighbor's house by a third person. My neighbor is a young 30ish black guy who has always seemed like a nice courteous guy. But he went ballistic when it looked like the firemen had been about to break down his door. He followed them down his steps and onto the sidewalk yelling to keep off his property and quit harassing people and go fight some real fires. The firemen just looked at the guy shrugged thier shoulders and drove off.
> 
> I've seen people get very nasty with cops in regular street encounters and demonstrations and I've been taunted as a racist myself (albeit by a 12 year old punk). Most cops know how to keep their cool. Good thing since they do carry guns.



pssst. firemen don't arrest people.


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## manifold (Jul 24, 2009)

Anyone else find it wildly amusing that Angry Eel equates a cop making an arrest with losing his cool.

I sure do.


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## Anguille (Jul 24, 2009)

del said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Last fall firemen were mistakenly called to my neighbor's house by a third person. My neighbor is a young 30ish black guy who has always seemed like a nice courteous guy. But he went ballistic when it looked like the firemen had been about to break down his door. He followed them down his steps and onto the sidewalk yelling to keep off his property and quit harassing people and go fight some real fires. The firemen just looked at the guy shrugged thier shoulders and drove off.
> ...



pssst, aren't you schmart!!


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## Anguille (Jul 24, 2009)

manifold said:


> Anyone else find it wildly amusing that Angry Eel equates a cop making an arrest with losing his cool.
> 
> I sure do.



Is anybody paying any attention to you at this point? 

 I know you hate that.


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## del (Jul 24, 2009)

Anguille said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...



yes. i am.


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## Anguille (Jul 24, 2009)

Anyone else find it wildly amusing that mani and del, two white guys, fear this incident will chip another hole in the monument to white male supremacy that they subconsciously huddle under?


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## Anguille (Jul 24, 2009)

del said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...


Then you know that firemen can call cops. Duh!


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## del (Jul 24, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Anyone else find it wildly amusing that mani and del, two white guys, fear this incident will chip another hole in the monument to white male supremacy that they subconsciously huddle under?



no more amusing than watching the contortions you're going through to try to paint this cop as an out of control, power mad, redneck, racist. 

now, that's funny.


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## Bass v 2.0 (Jul 24, 2009)

There's a fair amount of trolling going on in this thread mani and del need to quit it and focus on the topic at hand.


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## elvis (Jul 24, 2009)

So did Obama apologize to the police department for being racist toward them?


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## Anguille (Jul 24, 2009)

del said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone else find it wildly amusing that mani and del, two white guys, fear this incident will chip another hole in the monument to white male supremacy that they subconsciously huddle under?
> ...


redneck?  racist? perhaps you're projecting?


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## del (Jul 24, 2009)

Anguille said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
> ...



no, you're just disingenuous.

we're used to it.


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## Againsheila (Jul 24, 2009)

Valerie said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



I'd rep you for that but it says I have to spread some around first....


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## Bass v 2.0 (Jul 24, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> So did Obama apologize to the police department for being racist toward them?




Calling someone's actions stupid is not racist, you white men angry and drunk in white supremacy really fear Obama.


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## Againsheila (Jul 24, 2009)

Anguille said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
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You know, I never used to think you were dense....


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## manifold (Jul 24, 2009)

Charlie Bass said:


> There's a fair amount of trolling going on in this thread mani and del need to quit it and focus on the topic at hand.



Newsflash: We are now 400 posts deep in this thread.  Nobody posting has added any real value to the discussion over the last 300.


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## Anguille (Jul 24, 2009)

del said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...



The we tactic? For shame!
*dis&#8901;in&#8901;gen&#8901;u&#8901;ous*

&#8194;

&#8194;/&#716;d&#618;s
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





&#618;n&#712;d&#658;&#603;n
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




yu
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




&#601;s/ 

  Show Spelled Pronunciation  [dis-in-jen-yoo-uh
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




s] 

  Show IPA    Use *disingenuous* in a Sentence

 adjective   lacking in frankness, candor, or sincerity; falsely or hypocritically ingenuous; insincere: Her excuse was rather disingenuous.    

*Origin: * 
164555;  dis- 1  +  ingenuous





Related forms:
 dis&#8901;in&#8901;gen&#8901;u&#8901;ous&#8901;ly, adverb 
 dis&#8901;in&#8901;gen&#8901;u&#8901;ous&#8901;ness, noun 






If you think I am being insincere when I say the officer was out of line, think whatever you want. No skin off my nose. 

Are you now going to charge me with being tumultuous?


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## del (Jul 24, 2009)

Anguille said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
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we'll think it over and get back to you.

some may agree, others *shrug*


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## Bass v 2.0 (Jul 24, 2009)

manifold said:


> Charlie Bass said:
> 
> 
> > There's a fair amount of trolling going on in this thread mani and del need to quit it and focus on the topic at hand.
> ...



Speak for yourself, you're one of the main trolls not adding anything.


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## elvis (Jul 24, 2009)

Charlie Bass said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > Charlie Bass said:
> ...



Irony is a whore.


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## manifold (Jul 24, 2009)

Charlie Bass said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > Charlie Bass said:
> ...



Correction.  I am *THE* main troll not adding anything.  Whereas you are a mere dumbass plebe troll not adding anything.


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## Bass v 2.0 (Jul 24, 2009)

manifold said:


> Charlie Bass said:
> 
> 
> > manifold said:
> ...




Anything of value added to the thread you haven't even bothered reading and you're an annoying troll.


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## elvis (Jul 24, 2009)

interesting debate between manifold and bass.  Who is correct?  I guess if bigotry and racism adds anything to a thread, then bass is right in that Bass adds to the thread.


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## manifold (Jul 24, 2009)

Charlie Bass said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > Charlie Bass said:
> ...



Want a tissue?


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## Bass v 2.0 (Jul 24, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> interesting debate between manifold and bass.  Who is correct?  I guess if bigotry and racism adds anything to a thread, then bass is right in that Bass adds to the thread.





The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate bigotry and racism on the Bass' part, all you're doing is whining and making accusations about something that hasn't taken place.


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## manifold (Jul 24, 2009)

Charlie Bass said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > interesting debate between manifold and bass.  Who is correct?  I guess if bigotry and racism adds anything to a thread, then bass is right in that Bass adds to the thread.
> ...



Perhaps your reputation precedes you on this one.


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## Bass v 2.0 (Jul 24, 2009)

manifold said:


> Charlie Bass said:
> 
> 
> > manifold said:
> ...




This is the Magnificent Bass you're talking to, punks like you and especially Gunny and RGS gey smacked up and cry because of the Bass, you OTOH need toilet tissue because you so full of s....just wipe your mouth when you're done.


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## manifold (Jul 24, 2009)

For someone who likes to engage in flame wars, the dumBass sure does suck at it.


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## Bass v 2.0 (Jul 24, 2009)

manifold said:


> For someone who likes to engage in flame wars, the dumBass sure does suck at it.




Flaming and trolling is your sphere and scope of operation, handing out smackdowns and Bass-whuppins via presenting cold, hard facts is the Bass' style.


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## Anguille (Jul 24, 2009)

Ravi said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone else find it wildly amusing that Angry Eel equates a cop making an arrest with losing his cool.
> ...


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## Anguille (Jul 24, 2009)

Why hasn't dilloduck popped in to inform all the women in this thread who think Officer Crowley was a bad boy that they have daddy issues?


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## Valerie (Jul 24, 2009)

Ravi said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone else find it wildly amusing that Angry Eel equates a cop making an arrest with losing his cool.
> ...




Yes, the resulting arrest was perfectly logical when you think about it.  Mr Gates lost his cool and the officers remained professional and followed legal procedure.  You found the arrest unnecessary, but then again you were not there. The charges were subsequently dropped because of Professor Gates' status in the community.  A request for dismissal came down from on high and the charges were dropped.  The Cambridge police department stands behind all of the actions of their officers and they make no apologies.


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## Ravi (Jul 24, 2009)

Valerie said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > manifold said:
> ...


If you say so, Val. I think the cops acted more moronic than Gates, if that is possible. And as cops, they should have known better.

And out of curiosity, what does "on high" mean?


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## Valerie (Jul 24, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > Anguille said:
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Not forced.  Provoked, prompted, compelled.

Mr Gates controlled the outcome of the event and when he lost control of his behavior then ignored the warning to regain control and remain orderly, he compelled the police to exercise the authority to take control and retain order in the neighborhood.


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## Valerie (Jul 24, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
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Professor Gates is good friends with the mayor of Cambridge, the governor, the president, etc.  

Do I need to draw a picture?   


I know you think it was unnecessary to arrest him, but you have to think of it as legal procedure.  If Mr Gates is making threats, they need to make a record of events and establish the authority of the police in the neighborhood where there have been several other B&E's recently.  Undermining the Cambridge police force is not exactly in the best interest of the community, yes?


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## Valerie (Jul 24, 2009)

Ravi said:


> If you say so, Val.




   I'll speak with yo momma outside!


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## Ravi (Jul 24, 2009)

If the best interest of the Cambridge police is making wrongful arrests, yes it is, absolutely.

And no, threatening to sue someone because you think someone is racist is not threatening enough to arrest someone.


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## Valerie (Jul 24, 2009)

Ravi said:


> If the best interest of the Cambridge police is making wrongful arrests, yes it is, absolutely.
> 
> And no, threatening to sue someone because you think someone is racist is not threatening enough to arrest someone.




You think it was wrongful arrest because his behavior didn't meet the threshold of disorderly conduct based on what?  The dismissal of charges?   

It wasn't just the racist accusation that got him arrested, it was his manic uncontrollable behavior.  

You think the officer behaved badly based on what?  The mere fact of an arrest at his home?  

Since when is following procedure deemed a wrongful arrest?  



You really believe the people of the neighborhood were feeling threatened by the police presence that day?  "Making wrongful arrests"?  

Maybe they were trembling in their houses thinking they would be next for the Cambridge gustapo to come get all the black men of America as Mr Gates was ranting and threatening to sue them for?  

What IS the threshold of "threatening enough" to the order of the community?  Black men thinking they're above the law because they have a RIGHT to dis a cop in their own home?  


Hmmm...How to maintain order?   Law and order in the interest of everyone in the neighborhood which had been robbed several times recently.    Law and order beyond the interest of one spoiled loudmouthed twit who failed to maintain order of himself?   


Disorderly conduct charges served a legal purpose to defuse the situation in a way the police on the scene deemed necessary.  Maybe they used bad judgment as you suggest, but I haven't seen any proof of it.


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## BrianH (Jul 24, 2009)

No one, not even an esteemed professor, is above the law.  I could have gotten mouthy a few weeks ago when I got a speeding ticket about 20 yards from the speed limit sign, but I didn't.  The point is, this professor should have been glad his neighbors were keeping an eye on his house for him, and for the police for showing up when called.  Had this been a real intruder while Gates was still on vaction (or at home), it would have been a different story.  The fact is, when you start harrassing a law enforcement officer, your asking for trouble.  There are some police officers that have nerves of steel and are not phased by badgering, however, the majority of officers are human and are subject to the same nerves as the rest of us.  Personally, I feel that Gates shouldn't have been an asshole...just show some ID, thank the officer for stopping by, and let him be on his way.


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## Anguille (Jul 24, 2009)

Valerie said:


> You think it was wrongful arrest because his behavior didn't meet the threshold of disorderly conduct based on what?  The dismissal of charges?
> 
> It wasn't just the racist accusation that got him arrested, it was his manic uncontrollable behavior.
> 
> ...





Valerie said:


> Professor Gates is good friends with the mayor of Cambridge, the governor, the president, etc.
> 
> Do I need to draw a picture?


  Sounds like Cambridge is under a siege of criminality and corruption! Call the National Guard!! Under the brave leadership of Dudley DoRight-Crowley the fair city shall be liberated from the grip of Gates!!

Valerie, do you really think arresting Gates sent a message to burglars?  

Maybe while Crowley was fucking around with Gates someone's house was getting broken into?

Obviously you think the evidence all points to the cop having reason to make an arrest. I don't. But neither of us was there. It will be interesting to see what comes of this incident.


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## Valerie (Jul 24, 2009)

Anguille said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > You think it was wrongful arrest because his behavior didn't meet the threshold of disorderly conduct based on what?  The dismissal of charges?
> ...




  Just responding to Ravi's points.


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## manu1959 (Jul 24, 2009)

anyone read where the black cop thought they acted properly and that the prof was being weird....


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## Anguille (Jul 24, 2009)

Valerie said:


> Just responding to Ravi's points.


  I do hope you're feeling a little better about the President, in any case. 

I'm curious to see if he will get either of them to extend a hand to the other. I bet it won't happen for a while, if it does. And I think it will be Gates to extend his first.


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## Anguille (Jul 24, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> anyone read where the black cop thought they acted properly and that the prof was being weird....


  Why would you expect a black cop to stick up for a professor just because the professor is black too. Cops stick up for cops. Besides that cop was Portuguese, probably Capo Verde, he wasn't Southern black.


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## manu1959 (Jul 24, 2009)

Anguille said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > anyone read where the black cop thought they acted properly and that the prof was being weird....
> ...



so we should not trust cops and trust the black president sticking up for the black man breaking into a house.....because a white cop can't be trusted....thanks for clearing that up


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## Anguille (Jul 24, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> Anguille said:
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> > manu1959 said:
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If you say so...


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## raceright (Jul 24, 2009)

Give me a fuckin break.  If the black professor would of handled this situation like a smart educated man as we all would hope a friend of the President would be this would not of hit the papers.
But no he decided to act like a ****** and got what he asked for.
Fuck him for embarrasing his race and the president.
These types of actions will only help negative feelings between the races grow.
The cop was dammed either way,if he would have done nothing and it was truly a robbery he would have lost his job.  In NYC when seasoned cops get a call that appears to be dangerous they sometimes take a little longer to get on scene and hope to just pick up the pieces.  Would that have been a better choice for the cops????


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## del (Jul 25, 2009)

Anguille said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > anyone read where the black cop thought they acted properly and that the prof was being weird....
> ...



racist much?


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## WillowTree (Jul 25, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> Anguille said:
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> > manu1959 said:
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## WillowTree (Jul 25, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Val, put down that glass of hyperbole.
> 
> The actions of the cops sent no message to burglars but it did send one to law abiding citizens...you can't trust the police to act without vindictiveness so keep your mouth shut and your head down.
> 
> And Manu,



that's not the message I got.. or millions of other people.. just so ya know. you must have a short in yer circuit!.


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## editec (Jul 25, 2009)

Here's a thought... 

Once the cop knew that Gates wasn't a burgular, (and he knew that the moment Gates gave him his ID) he ought to have said politely goodnight.

He works for GATES you know, not the other way around.


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## WillowTree (Jul 25, 2009)

editec said:


> Here's a thought...
> 
> Once the cop knew that Gates wasn't a burgular, (and he knew that the moment Gates gave him his ID) he ought to have said politely goodnight.
> 
> He works for GATES you know, not the other way around.



the way I'm understanding events is the cop did try to leave and Gates followed him out, continuing on with the verbal racist attacks and would not stop.. hence he got arrested.. now what?


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## editec (Jul 25, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> > Here's a thought...
> ...


 
If that's true, Willow, then GATES was wrong.

This case is like a Rorschach test, isn't it?





Quick, is the above a picture of police harassment or a policeman being harassed?

the answer is that without knowing exactly what happened, we will never really KNOW who was wrong or right.

But if I had my guess, I'd GUESS that two EGOS clashed in the night.​​​​


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## WillowTree (Jul 25, 2009)

editec said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > editec said:
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well, it's my understanding that the police officers assessment is  verified by two other police officers as well as eye witness neighbors.. shrug!


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## Againsheila (Jul 25, 2009)

manifold said:


> Charlie Bass said:
> 
> 
> > elvis3577 said:
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I know it (his reputation) has colored my judgement on him...no pun intended


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## Anguille (Jul 25, 2009)

del said:


> Anguille said:
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> > manu1959 said:
> ...


 

A racist is someone who thinks a black should stick up for another black no matter what the other black did.


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## Anguille (Jul 25, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


An eye witness made point of saying he/she thought the arrest was unnecessary.


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## Anguille (Jul 25, 2009)

editec said:


> He works for GATES you know, not the other way around.


  Perhaps knowing that affected his judgement.


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## editec (Jul 25, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


 

It's my understanding that one cop will lie and ten will swear to it.

That's your thin blue line in action

So Shrug on, sister, because we cannot KNOW what happened because we weren't there.

Hence my Rorschach test quip.


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