# Afghanistan/Pakistan Facts



## eagleseven (Dec 4, 2009)

*Karzai's Afghanistan*

28,000,000 people
$460 GDP/capita
42% Pashtun, 38% Tajik
134,000 soldiers.
6,000 Dead


*Zardani's Pakistan*

180,000,000 people
$1022 GDP/capita
44% Punjab, 15% Pashtun, 14% Sindhi
1,100,000 soldiers
2,664 Dead

*Coalition Forces*

70,000 American 
10,200 British 
64,500 NATO
1,533 Dead

*Insurgent Forces (estimates)*

25,000 Taliban 
10,000 Uzbekistan Separatists
20,000 Pakistani-Taliban Separatists
23,000 Dead in Afghanistan (vs. Coalition Forces/Afghan Army)
12,487 Dead in Pakistan (vs. Pakistani Army)


Ethnic geographic distribution:






Territorial Control, April 2009:





*We can win this war.*


----------



## Alvin (Dec 4, 2009)

Why did you isolate the figures for the British?


----------



## eagleseven (Dec 4, 2009)

Alvin said:


> Why did you isolate the figures for the British?


They are the largest non-American contingent...more than twice that of next NATO country, and so are separated in the count.


----------



## mascale (Dec 4, 2009)

In both Afghanistan, and in Iraq, prior to the basis-free incursions of the misguided few who condemned U. S. military and civilians alike--to slaughter:  These figures below didn't exist.

Unknown News | Casualties in Afghanistan & Iraq                                                             

There are a lot of footnotes, included.

With absurdity like these two basis-free incursions, about to be magnified--anyone guesses that overall objective is to get the current government in Pakistan overthrown, and replaced by a more engaged Taliban, with and plus radical support.

These incursions, recall, were all a part of a plan(?)!   O'bama even announced the new strategy of winning the hearts and minds of the people--at a U. S. War-Making Academy!  Anyone would guess that the choice of venue goes well past the concept of telegraphing intentions.  In the O'bama Adminstration, of course, the West Wing is actually past all that.

For the unenlightened:  Militaries grab territory, kill inhabitants, loot the treasury, decimate the economy, get the participant invaders killed, wounded, maimed and permanently disabled--and create jobs at home.

It's all a part of the plan--to win over the hearts and minds of the invaded host nations.

"Crow, James Crow:  Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(Send in Corn and Blankets that Americans won't keep for themselves, and the create and support a bureaucracy to run it?  Hmmmmmm(?), Kemosabes!)


----------



## eagleseven (Dec 5, 2009)

Also worth noting:

Afghanistan Literacy: 28%
Pakistan Literacy: 55%


----------



## Sunni Man (Dec 5, 2009)

Most Taliban are Pashtuns.

They are 42% of a 28 million population in Afghanstain.

There are 40 million Pashtun you include the ones that live in Pakistain.

Pashtuns have a very tribal society in which revenge plays a major part..

Everytime we kill one. His father, brothers, uncles, cousins, join the fight.

Afghan's have been repelling invaders for generation after generation.

Time and history is on their side.

We will eventually give up and go home like all the others before us.


----------



## GHook93 (Dec 5, 2009)

Sunni Man said:


> Most Taliban are Pashtuns.
> 
> They are 42% of a 28 million population in Afghanstain.
> 
> ...



Talk about generalization you worthless communist!


----------



## Sunni Man (Dec 5, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> Talk about generalization you worthless *communist*!


LOL  don't believe anyone has ever called me a "communist" before!!


----------



## eagleseven (Dec 5, 2009)

Sunni Man said:


> Most Taliban are Pashtuns.
> 
> They are 42% of a 28 million population in Afghanstain.
> 
> ...



You make an important point. Even if the US withdrew, the fight would continue, between Karzai's government and the Pakistani army vs. the Taliban. There will be no peace.

Why?

Because President Karzai's father was assassinated by the Taliban, and he seeks personal revenge. Karzai is a Shamizai clansman, after all.


----------



## SFC Ollie (Dec 5, 2009)

eagleseven said:


> *Karzai's Afghanistan*
> 
> 28,000,000 people
> $460 GDP/capita
> ...



YOu would think it would already be over.......


----------



## eagleseven (Dec 5, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> YOu would think it would already be over.......


From what I've read...it would've been, had we pursued the Taliban into Pakistan. We had their numbers reduced to under 10k in 2004-2005, but let them reform and recruit in the Pashtun regions of Pakistan for several years.

Now the Taliban has returned, with as much strength as the had before the invasion. If we are to win this, we must kill them, all 40k fighters, showing the Pashtun that Karzai is the only viable leader of Afghanistan.

Until we do this, even if we withdraw, the fighting will continue. Obama realizes this, no doubt.


----------



## blu (Dec 5, 2009)

we should have also declared war on the tribal areas of pakistan and treated them as an extension of afghanistan. the war would have been over years ago if this happened.


----------



## Sunni Man (Dec 5, 2009)

There is a saying about the Afghan fighters:

"Afghans never lose a war, they just switch to the winning side"

The people know the Americans will eventually leave.

While the Taliban will always be there.

That's why the Taliban are growing stronger every day.


----------



## eagleseven (Dec 8, 2009)

Sunni Man said:


> There is a saying about the Afghan fighters:
> 
> "Afghans never lose a war, they just switch to the winning side"
> 
> ...


Karzai's Northern Alliance has been fighting the Taliban since 1992, and still is. You fail to recognize that this is, fundamentally, an _Afghan Civil War_.

Where will President Karzai and his 130,000 soldiers go? Poof into thin air?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_war_in_Afghanistan


----------



## Sunni Man (Dec 8, 2009)

eagleseven said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > There is a saying about the Afghan fighters:
> ...


Remember when we first invaded Afghanstain.

We said there were 30,000+ Taliban

We killed very few and the rest just seem to disappear.

Again, Afghan fighters will switch sides in a minute.

When we abandon Karzai. His army will evaporate like magic.


----------



## GHook93 (Dec 8, 2009)

Iraq for the most part had a solid infrastructure and an economy. It was moderizing even under Sadam (although he bankrupted them via war with Iran). Afghanistan has always been a bottom of the barrel 3rd world country with little going for it. I would be hard to develop it into a modern country even if there was no war or radical elements.

Young non-radical men are joining the Taliban to escape poverty and hunger. They have no jobs and little prospect of getting a job. The Taliban on the other hand have unlimited  resources with their poppie plants exports. It is said one of the biggest problems in Russia today is the free flow of mass amounts of cheap pure herion. Europe, the US, India and even places like Iran are feeling the blowback of the mass amounts of cheap herione flowing in. Afghanistan has become the bread basket of the herion industry. Its scary but true. 

Building a nation in Afghanistan would be very amazingly diffcult even if there was no opposition! With the opposition its nearly impossible.


----------

