# Biden Blames Guns



## Leo123 (May 24, 2022)

There he goes again. Using the tragedy of dead kids for political grandstanding.  What an asshole!!








						Biden blames Texas school shooting on ‘gun lobby,’ demands new gun laws
					

President Biden on Tuesday night said the “gun lobby” is responsible for US mass shootings and after a gunman murdered 18 children and two adults at an elementary school in Texas.




					nypost.com


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## skye (May 24, 2022)

So so predictable.....


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## Pete7469 (May 24, 2022)

*He'd have blamed Exxon if molotov cocktails were used.*


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## Calypso Jones (May 24, 2022)

This is gonna disappear fasst for so many reasons.


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## TroglocratsRdumb (May 24, 2022)

How about a new gun law that says that Democrats can't own guns.


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## DGS49 (May 24, 2022)

Same-o same-o...We need a LAW!  And yet, none of these Lefties ever outlines a [Constitutional]  LAW what would have made a fucking bit of difference.

They must think "we" are immeasurably stupid.


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## jknowgood (May 24, 2022)

TroglocratsRdumb said:


> How about a new gun law that says that Democrats can't own guns.


No, just Biden's security detail. Then we will know if he is serious.


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## Pete7469 (May 24, 2022)

DGS49 said:


> Same-o same-o...We need a LAW!  And yet, none of these Lefties ever outlines a [Constitutional]  LAW what would have made a fucking bit of difference.
> 
> They must think "we" are immeasurably stupid.


*Last I looked MURDER was already highly illegal and of all crimes punished most vigorously., Yet when a suicidal lunatic acquired a car bomb, airplane, or vial of nerve agent exactly what law will make a difference?*


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## Kosh (May 24, 2022)

I did a test long ago, I left my gun on the porch pointed at the street and it shot no one. No matter how much I insulted it, it never shot anyone.


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## Leo123 (May 24, 2022)

DGS49 said:


> Same-o same-o...We need a LAW!  And yet, none of these Lefties ever outlines a [Constitutional]  LAW what would have made a fucking bit of difference.
> 
> They must think "we" are immeasurably stupid.


Yes and, we already have laws against using guns to murder people or, using ANY weapon to murder someone.  Laws become fairly ineffective when a society loses it's moral base or that moral base is diluted.


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## Missourian (May 24, 2022)




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## EvilCat Breath (May 24, 2022)

Democrats want everyplace to be like New York and Chicago, violent animals and a disarmed populace.


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## mudwhistle (May 24, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> There he goes again. Using the tragedy of dead kids for political grandstanding.  What an asshole!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They needed a shooting because the Sussmann trial is blowing up in the FBI's faces.









						The Sussmann Trial: fingers pointed at FBI leadership
					

It was a long day of travel but we’re back at it on the Sussmann trial. This morning started with testimony from Bill Priestap, who in September 2016 was the FBI’s Assistant Director of Counterintelligence. His testimony was expected, even before the witness lists were put out. Back in January...




					technofog.substack.com


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## MarathonMike (May 24, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> There he goes again. Using the tragedy of dead kids for political grandstanding.  What an asshole!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That speech was completely nauseating. The first two minutes he was going for full on emotional pandering and then flips the switich and goes into Gun Control Nazi Mode. What a phony Mfkr. That is the leader of the free world?


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## Rambunctious (May 24, 2022)

*Its against the law to kill someone....*


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## Leo123 (May 24, 2022)

Laws are a bad substitute for objective morality.


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## White 6 (May 24, 2022)

Calypso Jones said:


> This is gonna disappear fasst for so many reasons.


I bet it doesn't.


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## White 6 (May 24, 2022)

DGS49 said:


> Same-o same-o...We need a LAW!  And yet, none of these Lefties ever outlines a [Constitutional]  LAW what would have made a fucking bit of difference.
> 
> They must think "we" are immeasurably stupid.


Raising the age to buy his weapons to 21, same as hand guns would have at least put it off for 3 years.


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## White 6 (May 24, 2022)

Missourian said:


> View attachment 649187


Well, you can't beat, strangle or stab 18 screaming running kids or adults to death in less than a minute.  You can do it with an AR15 platform weapon without even reloading or getting within 30 feet.


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## White 6 (May 24, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> Laws are a bad substitute for objective morality.


We just came out of 4 years of a president that scoffed at objective morality.  Why would you expect more of society, than of a national leader?


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## BluesLegend (May 24, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Well, you can't beat, strangle or stab 18 screaming running kids or adults to death in less than a minute.  You can do it with an AR15 platform weapon without even reloading or getting within 30 feet.


Before AR15's the bad guys used bombs in mass killings dummy. ^^^ clueless alert!


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## Nostra (May 24, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Raising the age to buy his weapons to 21, same as hand guns would have at least put it off for 3 years.


He used a hand gun.


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## White 6 (May 24, 2022)

BluesLegend said:


> Before AR15's the bad guys used bombs in mass killings dummy. ^^^ clueless alert!


Let them go back to it.  The good stuff and good detonators are harder to get and take more skill to make it work right.


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## two_iron (May 24, 2022)

The stuttering fuck had to read something a 22-year old intern cobbled together in 5 minutes and then ran it thru a "dumb it down to a 4th grade level" app. The stammering shit clown had NOTHING from the heart. Only mumbling marxist talking points and shitting on the memories of murdered children. 

Let's not forget this fucking spectacle.


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## Failzero (May 24, 2022)

Shooter was a Rookie Tranny and Latin-x with too much Mestizo in the woodpile  to be a White Hispanic


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## Big Bend Texas (May 24, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> There he goes again. Using the tragedy of dead kids for political grandstanding.  What an asshole!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He could have killed and wounded many times that number if he'd just waiting till school got out and the kids were lined up to get on busses and hanging out on the lawn by ramming his truck through them.


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## Big Bend Texas (May 24, 2022)

Failzero said:


> Shooter was a Rookie Tranny and Latin-x with too much Mestizo to be a White Hispanic


There are only two classes for Hispanics, White and African.

If you have a Hispanic last name you have Spanish Ancestry 99% of the time.


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## Leo123 (May 24, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> He could have killed and wounded many times that number if he'd just waiting till school got out and the kids were lined up to get on busses and hanging out on the lawn by ramming his truck through them.


Yep, murders will murder, there were no 'good guns' to stop him.


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## Failzero (May 24, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> There are only two classes for Hispanics, White and African.
> 
> If you have a Hispanic last name you have Spanish Ancestry 99% of the time.


There are Hispanics that look like a Korean Man had a love child with a short swarthy Mexican woman , when other Hispanics see them they say “ Indio”


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## Leo123 (May 24, 2022)

Failzero said:


> Shooter was a Rookie Tranny and Latin-x with too much Mestizo in the woodpile  to be a White Hispanic


He was a tranny too?  Why does that not surprise me.


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## Big Bend Texas (May 24, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> Yep, murders will murder, there were no 'good guns' to stop him.


The members of that school board have a lot to answer for because in Texas we can legally arm and train staff to be the first responders in such an incident.


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## Big Bend Texas (May 24, 2022)

Failzero said:


> There are Hispanics that look like a Korean Man had a love child with a short swarthy Mexican woman , when other Hispanics see them they say “ Indio”


Take a look at the census smart guy.  Only two categories exist.


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## White 6 (May 24, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> Yep, murders will murder, there were no 'good guns' to stop him.


Except for the ones that saw him get out of his truck with his rifles.
I live in a state, where to go into my granddaughter's school during school hours require somebody looking at a monitor to answer you ringing a bell to get in, same as the National Guard Headquarter, I once served at.  What is the matter with Texas, they do not take minimal precautions on their schools?


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## Failzero (May 24, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Take a look at the census smart guy.  Only two categories exist.


So the Hispanics that look like Sitting bull are White ? ( who woulda thunk it )


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## Big Bend Texas (May 24, 2022)

Failzero said:


> So the Hispanics that look like Sitting bull are White ? ( who woulda thunk it )


There are only two categories for Hispanic/Latino on the census.  Why is that so difficult to wrap your head around?

Stop being hung up on appearances, you sound like a democrat.


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## Failzero (May 24, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Take a look at the census smart guy.  Only two categories exist.


I was unaware that Mestizo were white


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## Big Bend Texas (May 24, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Except for the ones that saw him get out of his truck with his rifles.


There is no confirmation he even had one rifle at this point much less what type.


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## Big Bend Texas (May 24, 2022)

Failzero said:


> I was unaware that Mestizo were white


You are showing your own ignorance.



> mestizo
> 
> mĕs-tē′zō
> noun​
> A person of mixed racial ancestry, especially of mixed European and Native American ancestry.



Again.

There are only two categories for Hispanic/Latino on the census. Why is that so difficult to wrap your head around?

Stop being hung up on appearances, you sound like a democrat.


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## Leo123 (May 24, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> The members of that school board have a lot to answer for because in Texas we can legally arm and train staff to be the first responders in such an incident.


Public schools should have a government mandate to provide 1-point entries and armed security in all schools.  Public, charter or private.


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## Failzero (May 24, 2022)

Um I’ve only traveled in Mexico like 46 Times and grew up in Southern California ( now 62 Years old ) and know the Variations on the theme


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## Leo123 (May 24, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> There is no confirmation he even had one rifle at this point much less what type.


At the news conference they said the perp had a 'long rifle' and a handgun but, the story is still developing.


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## Big Bend Texas (May 24, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> At the news conference they said the perp had a 'long rifle' and a handgun but, the story is still developing.


The most recent from Abbott's office was "May Have had a Rifle".

Everyone should now by now that early reports of dynamic events like this are always going to be inherently inaccurate.

It usually takes at least 3 days of investigating to put together a good preliminary picture of what actually happened and even that is subject to change as more is learned.


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## Failzero (May 24, 2022)

How many days for the “ white Hispanic “ narrative to get traction


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## Big Bend Texas (May 24, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> Public schools should have a government mandate to provide 1-point entries and armed security in all schools.  Public, charter or private.


Well you have to have multiples for practicality sake in most cases due to spread out campuses and multiple buildings and of course for emergency egress, but absolutely limited, controlled access should be the norm for every school in the nation.

"It can't happen hear" is wishful thinking especially in that part of the state.


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## Winco (May 24, 2022)

Kosh said:


> I did a test long ago, I left my gun on the porch pointed at the street and it shot no one. No matter how much I insulted it, it never shot anyone.


And my neighbor left his massive stash of Fentanyl on his porch, and no one died.
No matter how much I insulted it, it was not ingested or shot up by any individual.

You lose.


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## White 6 (May 24, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> There is no confirmation he even had one rifle at this point much less what type.


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## Big Bend Texas (May 24, 2022)

Winco said:


> And my neighbor left his massive stash of Fentanyl on his porch, and no one died.
> No matter how much I insulted it, it was not ingested or shot up by any individual.
> 
> You lose.


You're making a fool of yourself.  An open porch is by definition not a secure place and there is no safe or legal use of Fentanyl except under strict supervision of physicians.

A firearm is lawful to own and is a purely inanimate object, it cannot either commit a crime or make someone commit one.

You are always free at any time to stop making a fool of yourself.


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## Leo123 (May 24, 2022)

Winco said:


> And my neighbor left his massive stash of Fentanyl on his porch, and no one died.
> No matter how much I insulted it, it was not ingested or shot up by any individual.
> 
> You lose.


No, you proved his point.  Without human participation neither a gun nor fentanyl will kill anyone.


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## Big Bend Texas (May 24, 2022)

White 6 said:


> View attachment 649220
> View attachment 649221


You should really read your citations before posting them.

All you've proven is that at this point there are conflicting stories.


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## Big Bend Texas (May 24, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> No, you proved his point.  Without human participation neither a gun nor fentanyl will kill anyone.


Not really, Fentanyl powder can kill you just being blown off of a table or touched without gloves.


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## White 6 (May 24, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> You should really read your citations before posting them.
> 
> All you've proven is that at this point there are conflicting stories.


They are just what is out there and it is being confirmed by broadcast news.  If you don't like, don't look.


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## Big Bend Texas (May 24, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> There he goes again. Using the tragedy of dead kids for political grandstanding.  What an asshole!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Never let a crisis go to waste.

If we never had another mass shooting in the US they'd still be trying to disarm us.


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## Big Bend Texas (May 24, 2022)

White 6 said:


> They are just what is out there and it is being confirmed by broadcast news.  If you don't like, don't look.


Dumbass, read your second citation slowly.  "armed with a handgun and POSSIBLY A RIFLE".

Your two citations give two different stories.


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## Slade3200 (May 24, 2022)

Kosh said:


> I did a test long ago, I left my gun on the porch pointed at the street and it shot no one. No matter how much I insulted it, it never shot anyone.


What were you trying to prove with this test and why?


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## Slade3200 (May 24, 2022)

BluesLegend said:


> Before AR15's the bad guys used bombs in mass killings dummy. ^^^ clueless alert!


Why aren’t you fighting to legalize bombs? I mean it isn’t the bomb doing the killing it’s the person who decided to use it… right?


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## Winco (May 24, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> A firearm is lawful to own and is a purely inanimate object, it cannot either commit a crime or make someone commit one.


Fentanyl is also a purely inanimate substance, and it cannot either commit a crime or make someone commit a crime.

Your stance is weak. Debunked.


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## Big Bend Texas (May 24, 2022)

Winco said:


> Fentanyl is also a purely inanimate substance, and it cannot either commit a crime or make someone commit a crime.
> 
> Your stance is weak. Debunked.


You don't even have to touch Fentanyl to kill yourself or someone else dip shit.

The powder simply floating in the air can be fatal.


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## Winco (May 24, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> No, you proved his point.  Without human participation neither a gun nor fentanyl will kill anyone.


Exactly my point dickhead.


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## Big Bend Texas (May 24, 2022)

Winco said:


> Exactly my point dickhead.


No "dickead", that isn't a point because it isn't true.

All Fentanyl needs is a gust of wind or a fan to blow to be fatal.


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## Ray9 (May 24, 2022)

The sad truth is that even impeaching him would do little. He is an active Manchurian Candidate doing what he is told to do. Shame on the people who fraudulently elected him!


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## White 6 (May 24, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Dumbass, read your second citation slowly.  "armed with a handgun and POSSIBLY A RIFLE".
> 
> Your two citations give two different stories.


Look dumb ass, it is what is out there. It is what is being reported on national news.  You want better?  Go get it, but both mentioned a rifle.  If it was an AR as I heard the Senator from Texas who was briefed by the Texas Rangers, than of the rifle and when he purchased.  I don't particularly care if it was something more or less exotic than an AR, not that I consider an AR exotic.  I built mine from interchangeable parts ordered from four or five different manufacturers and 3 different suppliers with minimal tools, minimal effort and if function checked perfectly at first assembly.  You would call it a _ghoste gun .  _I call it custom to my skills and use.  You are bitchin because i relay the most accurate info available, while we are on a message board where partisan assholes will intentionally swear to outright lies and proven untruths.  You might as well get off it.  I will honestly post what I post, and there isn't a damn thing you can do about except call me childish names as if you were a card-carrying trump republican, so fK Off.


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## Big Bend Texas (May 24, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> White 6 said:
> 
> 
> > Look dumb ass, it is what is out there. It is what is being reported on national news.  You want better?  Go get it, but both mentioned a rifle.  If it was an AR as I heard the Senator from Texas who was briefed by the Texas Rangers, than of the rifle and when he purchased.  I don't particularly care if it was something more or less exotic than an AR, not that I consider an AR exotic.  I built mine from interchangeable parts ordered from four or five different manufacturers and 3 different suppliers with minimal tools, minimal effort and if function checked perfectly at first assembly.  You would call it a _ghoste gun .  _I call it custom to my skills and use.  You are bitchin because i relay the most accurate info available, while we are on a message board where partisan assholes will intentionally swear to outright lies and proven untruths.  You might as well get off it.  I will honestly post what I post, and there isn't a damn thing you can do about except call me childish names as if you were a card-carrying trump republican, so fK Off.
> ...


Dumbass, the fact is just as I said we have conflicting stories and no confirmation yet as to exactly what he was armed with.

Just as I said with dynamic situations like this early reporting is always inherently flawed and it usually takes about 3 days of investigating to confirm the basic details which can still change as more investigation is done.

Your own cited stories give two different versions.

It's bad enough to be a raging asshole, being a raging hemorrhoid is even worse so get a grip on yourself or walk away and let the investigation run it's course.


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## Ray From Cleveland (May 24, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> The most recent from Abbott's office was "May Have had a Rifle".
> 
> Everyone should now by now that early reports of dynamic events like this are always going to be inherently inaccurate.
> 
> It usually takes at least 3 days of investigating to put together a good preliminary picture of what actually happened and even that is subject to change as more is learned.



Which is why Dementia should have kept his trap shut until then.  He should have just addressed the public about the tragedy of it all and leave his politics out of it which apparently the lowlife couldn't do.  

If there is anything more despicable than a Democrat politician, I'd sure like to know who that is.


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## Viktor (May 24, 2022)

TroglocratsRdumb said:


> How about a new gun law that says that Democrats can't own guns.


The NRA supports full enforcement of gun laws. Jojo is lying again. Mexico has very strong gun laws and a very high murder rate.


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## White 6 (May 24, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Dumbass, the fact is just as I said we have conflicting stories and no confirmation yet as to exactly what he was armed with.
> 
> Just as I said with dynamic situations like this early reporting is always inherently flawed and it usually takes about 3 days of investigating to confirm the basic details which can still change as more investigation is done.
> 
> ...


They are also reporting the shooter had body armor and I do not know if that is accurate or not, though suspect it is, and now I have put that on the board.  If you don't want to read it, put me on ignore, slick and find a way to muzzle your own state Senator.


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## Ray From Cleveland (May 24, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Well, you can't beat, strangle or stab 18 screaming running kids or adults to death in less than a minute.  You can do it with an AR15 platform weapon without even reloading or getting within 30 feet.



You can do the same with a semi-automatic handgun and changing a magazine (if practiced) can be done in less than two seconds.  If you're lucky, that may result in one less death. 

So it's not the guns nor the kind of gun used, it's the individuals we need to focus on.


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## Ray From Cleveland (May 24, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Raising the age to buy his weapons to 21, same as hand guns would have at least put it off for 3 years.



And so you believe that if we did that, he would have lost his hatred that led him to kill innocent children for three years...........really???


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## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> Yes and, we already have laws against using guns to murder people or, using ANY weapon to murder someone.  Laws become fairly ineffective when a society loses it's moral base or that moral base is diluted.



Polls show a consistent disinterest in religion and the belief in God in the US, so you are on to something there.  I (and most people my age)  believed that once you leave this planet, you go somewhere else.  Where that somewhere else is is based on your actions here.  

We took God out of schools and replaced him with kooks that want to discuss transgender, white guilt, and teach them God doesn't control the climate, man does.  There is no God.  

Laws are ineffective because they are not tough enough.  Chicago police have complained they take a person off the street with an illegal gun and he's out the next day.  

*illegally carrying a firearm, 5 years minimum in prison. 
*Straw buyers, minimum 10 years in prison. 
*Using a gun in the commission of a crime, 20 years minimum. 
*Killing somebody with a gun in the commission of a crime, automatic death penalty.  
*Being found with a stolen gun, 10 years in prison.


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## White 6 (May 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> And so you believe that if we did that, he would have lost his hatred that led him to kill innocent children for three years...........really???


If I could put off the shooting of 19, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th graders for 3 years, I most certainly would.  If you think today was a good day for them to die, that's for you to decide, Ray.


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## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> There he goes again. Using the tragedy of dead kids for political grandstanding.  What an asshole!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Given his horrible approval ratings, I'm kind of shocked he did that.


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## White 6 (May 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You can do the same with a semi-automatic handgun and changing a magazine (if practiced) can be done in less than two seconds.  If you're lucky, that may result in one less death.
> 
> So it's not the guns nor the kind of gun used, it's the individuals we need to focus on.














						At least 19 children, 2 teachers dead after shooting at Texas elementary school
					

The suspect in the shooting at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas is also dead, the governor said.




					abcnews.go.com


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## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

White 6 said:


> If I could put off the shooting of 19, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th graders for 3 years, I most certainly would.  If you think today was a good day for them to die, that's for you to decide, Ray.



Except for the fact your idea would only prevent law abiding people to be 21.  Criminals don't care about the law.  That's why they're criminals in the first place.  Do you think this kid looked up the laws to see if mass shootings were legal?


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## Leo123 (May 25, 2022)

Winco said:


> Exactly my point dickhead.


You don't seem to have a point.


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## White 6 (May 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Except for the fact your idea would only prevent law abiding people to be 21.  Criminals don't care about the law.  That's why they're criminals in the first place.  Do you think this kid looked up the laws to see if mass shootings were legal?


That tired old trope is no excuse.  This wasn't a gang criminal deal. It is a disturbed adolescent, upon leaving a domestic situation where he shot his own grandmother.  There is no way to say, he would have had the weapons, as his own state Senator, briefed by his own state police said he bought them on his birthday when he turned 18 as is legal in the State of Texas and most other states under federal fire arms laws.


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## forkup (May 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Except for the fact your idea would only prevent law abiding people to be 21.  Criminals don't care about the law.  That's why they're criminals in the first place.  Do you think this kid looked up the laws to see if mass shootings were legal?


This person wasn't a criminal until he shot all these kids. Not for nothing. All these attempts to disassociate gun violence from guns is getting old. There is NO Western nation that has this kind of thing happening at even a vaguely similar rate to the US. Every and all bogus reasoning you can come up with runs into that fact. More guns brings more gun violence and the rights insistence that nothing should be done about it concerning guns is simply immoral.


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## Winco (May 25, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> No "dickead", that isn't a point because it isn't true.
> 
> All Fentanyl needs is a gust of wind or a fan to blow to be fatal.


Ok Fuckhead.  You seem to be Brain Dead.
Gun on a table......Kills no one
Fentanyl on a table.......Kills no one.


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## Big Bend Texas (May 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Which is why Dementia should have kept his trap shut until then.  He should have just addressed the public about the tragedy of it all and leave his politics out of it which apparently the lowlife couldn't do.
> 
> If there is anything more despicable than a Democrat politician, I'd sure like to know who that is.


 Sadly, these are literally "fill in the blank' speeches they  have waiting for the nest tragedy to capitalize on.


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## Big Bend Texas (May 25, 2022)

White 6 said:


> They are also reporting the shooter had body armor and I do not know if that is accurate or not, though suspect it is, and now I have put that on the board.  If you don't want to read it, put me on ignore, slick and find a way to muzzle your own state Senator.


My state senators aren't posting here jackass, you are.  All you've done is continue proving my points though so thanks.


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## Leo123 (May 25, 2022)

forkup said:


> This person wasn't a criminal until he shot all these kids. Not for nothing. All these attempts to disassociate gun violence from guns is getting old. There is NO Western nation that has this kind of thing happening at even a vaguely similar rate to the US. Every and all bogus reasoning you can come up with runs into that fact. More guns brings more gun violence and the rights insistence that nothing should be done about it concerning guns is simply immoral.


A person isn't a criminal until they murder someone.  WTF are you trying to say?   Guns are not violent, people are.   There are plenty of nations that restrict their citizens from owning guns and treat the populace badly.   It is not proven that more guns brings more violence.  In fact, in this particular incident in Texas, more good guns stopped the violence.


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## Big Bend Texas (May 25, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Well, you can't beat, strangle or stab 18 screaming running kids or adults to death in less than a minute.  You can do it with an AR15 platform weapon without even reloading or getting within 30 feet.


There you go talking out of your ass again.  You can easily swing a hatched or machete that many times in a minute and you don't have to get within 30' to kill just as many people in the same amount of time with a revolver or a damned .22lr Ruger 10/22



You need to spend a lot less time talking out of your ass.

You don't need an "assault weapon"  to wipe out a hundred kids inside of a few minutes.


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## Big Bend Texas (May 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You can do the same with a semi-automatic handgun and changing a magazine (if practiced) can be done in less than two seconds.  If you're lucky, that may result in one less death.
> 
> So it's not the guns nor the kind of gun used, it's the individuals we need to focus on.


Hell you can do it with a revolver.


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## Big Bend Texas (May 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> And so you believe that if we did that, he would have lost his hatred that led him to kill innocent children for three years...........really???


The Courts have already struck down such attempts under the 14th Amendment.

Either you're an adult or you aren't.


----------



## White 6 (May 25, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> My state senators aren't posting here jackass, you are.  All you've done is continue proving my points though so thanks.


Jackass your Senator are talking live off and on today on national TV news and being quoted on articles at the top of the Drudge Report.  Just because they didn't contact you in BIG BEND TEXAS before speaking live is not my problem, nor is your failure to follows the news and the news makers and elected political leaders of your own damned state when national news is being made around you.  Again, You really need to Fk Off!


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 25, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> Yes and, we already have laws against using guns to murder people or, using ANY weapon to murder someone.  Laws become fairly ineffective when a society loses it's moral base or that moral base is diluted.


"Diversity" in action.

Religion at least gives you a commonly agreed upon morality to guide you.  With out same, all you have is an ever more disjointed, dysfunctional, and dystopian society that can only be held together by force of law imposed at the point of a gun.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 25, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Jackass your Senator are talking live off and on today on national TV news and being quoted on articles at the top of the Drudge Report.  Just because they didn't contact you in BIG BEND TEXAS before speaking live is not my problem, nor is your failure to follows the news and the news makers and elected political leaders of your own damned state when national news is being made around you.  Again, You really need to Fk Off!


I don't give a shit, you're responsible for your posts, not them.

The fact is we don't have yet any actual confirmation as to what he used.


----------



## dudmuck (May 25, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> A person isn't a criminal until they murder someone.  WTF are you trying to say?   Guns are not violent, people are.   There are plenty of nations that restrict their citizens from owning guns and treat the populace badly.   It is not proven that more guns brings more violence.  In fact, in this particular incident in Texas, more good guns stopped the violence.


----------



## Issa (May 25, 2022)

Kosh said:


> I did a test long ago, I left my gun on the porch pointed at the street and it shot no one. No matter how much I insulted it, it never shot anyone.


Most of the countries don't have these mass shootings, u know why ? Because they have almost no guns available for everyone to grab.


----------



## Mindful (May 25, 2022)

Missourian said:


> View attachment 649187



Good point.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> And so you believe that if we did that, he would have lost his hatred that led him to kill innocent children for three years...........really???


Violent criminals don't tend to be deterred by laws.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 25, 2022)

Issa said:


> Most of the countries don't have these mass shootings, u know why ? Because they have almost no guns available for everyone to grab.


Assumption stated as fact.

Other countries have mass shootings, even European countries.

Access to firearms isn't the issue, demographics and mental health are the main issues involved here.

The Worst School Shootings in history happened in Europe.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 25, 2022)

Missourian said:


> View attachment 649187


Silly wabbit, people don't kill people, guns do.,.. errr um, something like that.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 25, 2022)

White 6 said:


> If I could put off the shooting of 19, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th graders for 3 years, I most certainly would.  If you think today was a good day for them to die, that's for you to decide, Ray.


That you think you can only shows your own ignorance.

Infringing on the rights of the law abiding doesn't stop these types of incidents from happening.

If you're hell bent on a shooting like this buying one illegally is the least of your concerns.


----------



## Issa (May 25, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Assumption stated as fact.
> 
> Other countries have mass shootings, even European countries.
> 
> ...


Don't lie, they are super rare in Europe. Here is one after another.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Given his horrible approval ratings, I'm kind of shocked he did that.


I'm not, these kinds of plays on emotion work great to fire up his base.


----------



## Leo123 (May 25, 2022)

dudmuck said:


>


Says a demagogue.


----------



## Mindful (May 25, 2022)

Issa said:


> Most of the countries don't have these mass shootings, u know why ? Because they have almost no guns available for everyone to grab.



I can tell you this:

Huge black market in guns in Europe. I got that from the police themselves. If I wanted a gun today, I could get one, from certain areas in the city.

Mass shootings in Europe tend to be terrorist motivated. Remember the Paris Bataclan  massacre?

And the reason there aren’t more of them is: the police, in particular the Germans, are very good at foiling these plots. There is constant secret surveillance.

I think there were already warnings concerning the latest Texas perpetrator.


----------



## Missourian (May 25, 2022)

Issa said:


> Most of the countries don't have these mass shootings, u know why ? Because they have almost no guns available for everyone to grab.


Please go live there.

Be well Citizen.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 25, 2022)

Issa said:


> Don't lie, they are super rare in Europe. Here is one after another.


The lie was yours, you claimed they don't happen in other countries, I simply proved that they do.

The worse school massacre in US history wasn't even a shooting, two angry parents blew the school up with natural gas.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 25, 2022)

Mindful said:


> I can tell you this:
> 
> Huge black market in guns in Europe. I got that from the police themselves. If I wanted a gun today, I could get one, from certain areas in the city.
> 
> ...


Indeed.  It isn't the availability of the gun that is the issue, it's what drives people to commit such acts and that's going on between their ears.


----------



## Leo123 (May 25, 2022)

Issa said:


> Don't lie, they are super rare in Europe. Here is one after another.


Bullshit...
*"But a study of global mass-shooting incidents from 2009 to 2015 by the Crime Prevention Research Center, headed by economist John Lott, shows the U.S. doesn't lead the world in mass shootings. In fact, it doesn't even make the top 10, when measured by death rate per million population from mass public shootings."*








						Sorry, Despite Gun-Control Advocates' Claims, U.S. Isn't The Worst Country For Mass Shootings
					

It's become common to hear after a U.S. shooting tragedy that America is more violent than nations in heavily gun-controlled Europe. It's just another myth.




					www.investors.com


----------



## Kosh (May 25, 2022)

Slade3200 said:


> What were you trying to prove with this test and why?



Prove that guns do not kill people or is it that hard for you to understand?


----------



## Leo123 (May 25, 2022)

Kosh said:


> Prove that guns do not kill people or is it that hard for you to understand?


People kill people.


----------



## Kosh (May 25, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> People kill people.



Yep!


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 25, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> Bullshit...
> *"But a study of global mass-shooting incidents from 2009 to 2015 by the Crime Prevention Research Center, headed by economist John Lott, shows the U.S. doesn't lead the world in mass shootings. In fact, it doesn't even make the top 10, when measured by death rate per million population from mass public shootings."*
> 
> 
> ...


Damnit, there you go with facts again!


----------



## OKTexas (May 25, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Raising the age to buy his weapons to 21, same as hand guns would have at least put it off for 3 years.




He couldn't legally have a handgun. Didn't stop him did it?

.


----------



## Mindful (May 25, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> People kill people.



There was a frenzied attack by a man with a machete in a UK kindergarten some years ago.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 25, 2022)

Kosh said:


> Prove that guns do not kill people or is it that hard for you to understand?


Guns don't do anything, they are simply tools.  The user does the killing.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 25, 2022)

Mindful said:


> There was a frenzied attack by a man with a machete in a UK kindergarten some years ago.











						Japan mass stabbing: Accused admits murders but denies guilt
					

The 2016 knife attack stunned a country where violent crime is extremely rare.



					www.bbc.com


----------



## Mindful (May 25, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Japan mass stabbing: Accused admits murders but denies guilt
> 
> 
> The 2016 knife attack stunned a country where violent crime is extremely rare.
> ...



19?

That’s a lot.


----------



## Slade3200 (May 25, 2022)

Kosh said:


> Prove that guns do not kill people or is it that hard for you to understand?


Pretty basic. Why did you feel the need to run such a test? Do you think people believe guns kill people all by themselves?


----------



## Kosh (May 25, 2022)

Slade3200 said:


> Pretty basic. Why did you feel the need to run such a test? Do you think people believe guns kill people all by themselves?



Yes !


----------



## White 6 (May 25, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> I don't give a shit, you're responsible for your posts, not them.
> 
> The fact is we don't have yet any actual confirmation as to what he used.


Than blow it out your butt and wait until you are spoon fed.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 25, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Than blow it out your butt and wait until you are spoon fed.


The only person here blowing anything out of their ass is yourself.

You believe what you want to believe and really couldn't care less what the facts are.

The fact is, as yet we have no confirmation of what weapon or weapons he used.


----------



## Captain Caveman (May 25, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Never let a crisis go to waste.
> 
> If we never had another mass shooting in the US they'd still be trying to disarm us.


But that's why you have those cases, the nutters have the Right to bear arms and this is the fallout of the stupid 2nd Amendment. America's forefathers utterly fucked up there, they didn't bank on the low IQ of future generations.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 25, 2022)

Slade3200 said:


> Pretty basic. Why did you feel the need to run such a test? Do you think people believe guns kill people all by themselves?


If that's not the case then why is it democrats always attack guns and the law abiding public who own them instead of addressing the actual issues in these shootings?

Why is it Biden spent so much time today blaming guns, the NRA, "lobbyists" etc instead of addressing the real issue which is why this guy was legally eligible to purchase a rifle in the first place?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 25, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> But that's why you have those cases, the nutters have the Right to bear arms and this is the fallout of the stupid 2nd Amendment. America's forefathers utterly fucked up there, they didn't bank on the low IQ of future generations.


The low IQ being demonstrated is your own. 100 million gun owners possessing upwards of 300 million guns this year did not and never have committed such a crime.

The problem isn't the guns and it isn't law abiding gun owners it's the nuts that should have never been able to legally possess them in the first place and parents that fail to secure the firearms in their own homes allowing their broken kids free access to them usually without any consequences.


----------



## White 6 (May 25, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> That you think you can only shows your own ignorance.
> 
> Infringing on the rights of the law abiding doesn't stop these types of incidents from happening.
> 
> If you're hell bent on a shooting like this buying one illegally is the least of your concerns.


You ought to change your name from big bend to Around The Bend.


----------



## Batcat (May 25, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Raising the age to buy his weapons to 21, same as hand guns would have at least put it off for 3 years.


A lot of people graduate high school at age 18. Many get a job and live on their own. Apartments are not cheap so an 18 year old girl may end up renting in a bad neighborhood. Someone may notice her and realizing she is too young to legally buy a firearm may decide to break into her apartment and rape her. 

My daughter was 18 or 19 and still living at home. One night she came home from working the second shift, I was at work on the graveyard shift. She took our female Labrador retriever outside for a few minutes and was in bed when the burglar alarm sounded. Often when that happened it was the wind jarring a sliding glass door. She turned the alarm off and checked the door and went back to bed. 

A few minutes later the alarm sounded again. This time she realized it was not a windy night so she armed herself with a large revolver she had trained with and walked into the kitchen. She found an intruder trying to force the sliding glass door open. She drew down on him and he wisely decided to run. She chose not to shoot him as I had always told her not to shoot anyone outside the house and the intruder had not crossed the door threshold at that point. Our black lab was basically useless in that situation. The noise from the alarm sent her into hiding. 

She called the police and they arrived quickly but never caught the intruder. 

We had no further problems. 

I often think of my daughter when people want to stop people under 21 from buying a firearm.


----------



## Captain Caveman (May 25, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> The low IQ being demonstrated is your own. 100 million gun owners possessing upwards of 300 million guns this year did not and never have committed such a crime.
> 
> The problem isn't the guns and it isn't law abiding gun owners it's the nuts that should have never been able to legally possess them in the first place and parents that fail to secure the firearms in their own homes allowing their broken kids free access to them usually without any consequences.


So tell me high IQ person, how do you know everyone is going to be law abiding with guns


----------



## White 6 (May 25, 2022)

OKTexas said:


> He couldn't legally have a handgun. Didn't stop him did it?
> 
> .


According to what I have read he had AR style rifle or rifles.  I posted the ABC report somewhere on the board within the last  two hours talking with Ray in Cleveland.  I also heard a Texas State trooper say it in an interview on the news within the last 3 hours.  A Texas State Senator said same earlier tonight.  Beats me.  I can only tell you what was said.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 25, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> So tell me high IQ person, how do you know everyone is going to be law abiding with guns


I don't nor did I suggest I can know such a thing.

We have over 100 million law abiding gun owners in the US and 300-400 million legally owned firearms in their possession.

Very little crime, much less violent crime is ever committed by those 100 million plus individuals nor can it be shown that infringing on our rights is going to have any significant impact on violent crime at all much less school shootings.

In almost every case these mass shooters are people who had already exhibited clearly dangerous conduct or made such threats and had multiple interactions with School and LE officials as a result.

Yet in almost all of these cases even with existing laws that would have allowed them to be properly dealt with no action was taken.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 25, 2022)

White 6 said:


> According to what I have read he had AR style rifle or rifles.  I posted the ABC report somewhere on the board within the last  two hours talking with Ray in Cleveland.  I also heard a Texas State trooper say it in an interview on the news within the last 3 hours.  A Texas State Senator said same earlier tonight.  Beats me.  I can only tell you what was said.


None of those are official sources with actual knowledge of the investigation.

No such reports have come from anyone involved with this investigation and there are conflicting reports coming from every possible direction.

This is the norm as I said, we won't get official confirmation at least until tomorrow and usually not for about 3 days.

What has been confirmed at least so far is that he did have a handgun.


----------



## Leo123 (May 25, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> But that's why you have those cases, the nutters have the Right to bear arms and this is the fallout of the stupid 2nd Amendment. America's forefathers utterly fucked up there, they didn't bank on the low IQ of future generations.


Nutters will bear arms whether legal or not.  You don't take everyone else's rights away because of a few nutters.   Without guns, America as we know it, would not exist.   Check our own IQ I think it's pretty low.


----------



## Mindful (May 25, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Guns don't do anything, they are simply tools.  The user does the killing.



I recently attended a gun seminar (for want of a better word) in the US, and  learned things I’d never been aware of before.

Bottom line; with all the protocols in place, one does not simply pick up a gun and fire it.


----------



## SweetSue92 (May 25, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> Public schools should have a government mandate to provide 1-point entries and armed security in all schools.  Public, charter or private.



My district alone has 11 schools. Where you gonna get the people and the funding for that? Who would want that job? Although the news is horrid and an outrage, the truth is still that school shootings are exceedingly rare


----------



## Leo123 (May 25, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> My district alone has 11 schools. Where you gonna get the people and the funding for that? Who would want that job? Although the news is horrid and an outrage, the truth is still that school shootings are exceedingly rare


Yes they are rare but, are horrendous.   Also, democrats use these tragic incidents to promote gun grabbing.  Our society does not have to put up with that.  We can hire retired law enforcement for security.  We could pay them and give them tax breaks.   It doesn't cost that much to arrange secured entries.   We just sent 40 billion dollars to Ukraine why can't we protect our own children from these immoral assholes?


----------



## OKTexas (May 25, 2022)

White 6 said:


> According to what I have read he had AR style rifle or rifles.  I posted the ABC report somewhere on the board within the last  two hours talking with Ray in Cleveland.  I also heard a Texas State trooper say it in an interview on the news within the last 3 hours.  A Texas State Senator said same earlier tonight.  Beats me.  I can only tell you what was said.




It was reported he had a hand and long gun/s.

.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 25, 2022)

OKTexas said:


> It was reported he had a hand and long gun/s.
> 
> .


Lot's of crazy shit is getting reported, same as with any other similar crime.

The facts will shake out in a day or two.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 25, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> My district alone has 11 schools. Where you gonna get the people and the funding for that? Who would want that job? Although the news is horrid and an outrage, the truth is still that school shootings are exceedingly rare


It really isn't that difficult and could be done for less than 100k per school.

Controlled access is very easy, faculty and staff volunteers haven't been a problem for us in Texas.

We could also pass laws allowing school districts to hire former officers and veterans solely to fill that role without giving them any other police powers or duties.

You'd be surprised how easy it is to get people to volunteer their time.  As an instructor I donate all my time to any teacher or school that wishes to get certified under either of our programs.


----------



## SweetSue92 (May 25, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> It really isn't that difficult and could be done for less than 100k per school.
> 
> Controlled access is very easy, faculty and staff volunteers haven't been a problem for us in Texas.
> 
> ...



Our school already has very secured entryways. Because of that in almost all cases you would be paying people to carry a gun around school to do....really nothing. In every school. Year after year after year after year.

In no way am I minimizing the tragedy in Texas. It makes me sick. But this is shooting a cannon at a mosquito (in size, not in lethality). What we need rather than armed security is people in every building who are less likely to cater everything to DANGEROUS EVIL PEOPLE and more likely to report them as threats to society.

Bring back mental institutions


----------



## forkup (May 25, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> A person isn't a criminal until they murder someone.  WTF are you trying to say?   Guns are not violent, people are.   There are plenty of nations that restrict their citizens from owning guns and treat the populace badly.   It is not proven that more guns brings more violence.  In fact, in this particular incident in Texas, more good guns stopped the violence.


If someone comes up with the argument that criminals will always find guns, I will argue that this person first legally bought the guns and only then used it to commit a crime. Thereby demonstrating the argument invalid in this case. And further referring to the fact that other countries clearly have crime and criminals but very few of these kinds of shootings. That's what I meant.

As to your arguments. First, restriction of gun ownership and treatment of citizens are 2 separate matters. There are a few countries that indeed restrict gun ownership and treat their citizens badly. But many more treat their citizens perfectly fine while restricting gun ownership. So tying them makes little sense.

Second, check out the amounts of gun incident by country. You will notice that the US not only has some of the fewest gun regulations in the world, especially amongst Western nations and at the same time the highest amount of gun violence in the world. You are. Claiming there is no connection between the 2? As for more guns. Since 1997 the amount of gun purchases has increased by 600 percent. What hasn't gotten better, in fact it's gotten worse is mass shootings.


----------



## Slade3200 (May 25, 2022)

Kosh said:


> Yes !


Haha really?! You’re not the sharpest pencil in the stack are ya?


----------



## Slade3200 (May 25, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> If that's not the case then why is it democrats always attack guns and the law abiding public who own them instead of addressing the actual issues in these shootings?


Because they would prefer to see less guns on the streets and they’d like to make it harder for criminals and future criminals to gain access to guns


----------



## Slade3200 (May 25, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Why is it Biden spent so much time today blaming guns, the NRA, "lobbyists" etc instead of addressing the real issue which is why this guy was legally eligible to purchase a rifle in the first place?


Because those items you listed are responsible for the laws that permitted this kid to get a gun. I thought that was obvious.


----------



## Kosh (May 25, 2022)

Slade3200 said:


> Haha really?! You’re not the sharpest pencil in the stack are ya?



Sharper than you and any other far left religious cult follower.

Of course the far left believes guns kill people..


----------



## Captain Caveman (May 25, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> Nutters will bear arms whether legal or not.  You don't take everyone else's rights away because of a few nutters.   *Without guns*, America as we know it, would not exist.   Check our own IQ I think it's pretty low.


Let's check your IQ. With gun licencing and regulation, you have guns   *gasp*  *shit myself*

You don't have the brain capacity to understand guns, you just wander about dragging your knuckles like a Neanderthal. Any chance you could put your carer on so I can have a debate with someone that understands the subject


----------



## 22lcidw (May 25, 2022)

forkup said:


> If someone comes up with the argument that criminals will always find guns, I will argue that this person first legally bought the guns and only then used it to commit a crime. Thereby demonstrating the argument invalid in this case. And further referring to the fact that other countries clearly have crime and criminals but very few of these kinds of shootings. That's what I meant.
> 
> As to your arguments. First, restriction of gun ownership and treatment of citizens are 2 separate matters. There are a few countries that indeed restrict gun ownership and treat their citizens badly. But many more treat their citizens perfectly fine while restricting gun ownership. So tying them makes little sense.
> 
> Second, check out the amounts of gun incident by country. You will notice that the US not only has some of the fewest gun regulations in the world, especially amongst Western nations and at the same time the highest amount of gun violence in the world. You are. Claiming there is no connection between the 2? As for more guns. Since 1997 the amount of gun purchases has increased by 600 percent. What hasn't gotten better, in fact it's gotten worse is mass shootings.


Prog domination is already treating citizens badly here. Every day we hear it and threats on TV for the audacity of voting Republican. And demonized for it also.  So get your national police force people and go through each ghetto and get every gun from people there first. Like a military incursion. Go ahead and do it.


----------



## struth (May 25, 2022)

White 6 said:


> That tired old trope is no excuse.  This wasn't a gang criminal deal. It is a disturbed adolescent, upon leaving a domestic situation where he shot his own grandmother.  There is no way to say, he would have had the weapons, as his own state Senator, briefed by his own state police said he bought them on his birthday when he turned 18 as is legal in the State of Texas and most other states under federal fire arms laws.


18 year olds aren’t adolescents.   They are adults  Even folks like Salvador Ramos


----------



## Captain Caveman (May 25, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> I don't nor did I suggest I can know such a thing.
> 
> We have over 100 million law abiding gun owners in the US and 300-400 million legally owned firearms in their possession.
> 
> ...


You stated -

_"The problem isn't the guns and it isn't law abiding gun owners it's the nuts that should have never been able to legally possess them"_

So, if the nation gives everyone the Right to bear arms, how do you know if those obtaining guns is or will be law abiding.

Now, if you had a system where your background check involves family members and your mental state of mind by police interview, that you have to keep guns when not in use locked in a secure cabinet bolted to the wall that was checked by the police, only you are allowed to know where the cabinet key is, your reason to have/need guns is acceptable, you can't walk around in public with a gun let alone have it loaded in public, bullets/shotgun lead must be contained in the authorised grounds where you're shooting, the size and features of a gun have to comply to laws, buy back days and hand in days repeated every year, and in general, this is taken seriously or you are landed with fines, gun confiscated and possible jail, you tell me if the gun owner is more than likely law abiding.

Here's some homework, you research when the Right to bear arms in the UK ended and who and when brought gun licensing in. Then find out how many decades ago that was for where guns are today in the UK.

If any American thinks they can implement a law or laws over night to stamp out gun problems, doesn't understand the gun problem.

There are two things, it'll take decades to sort out the gun nut problem, and if you're law abiding, why would you fear a better gun system !!!!!!!


----------



## Blues Man (May 25, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> There he goes again. Using the tragedy of dead kids for political grandstanding.  What an asshole!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He should blame the real persons responsible.

The ones who though it was a good idea not to lock the doors of a school and control who can and cannot enter


----------



## Blues Man (May 25, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> You stated -
> 
> _"The problem isn't the guns and it isn't law abiding gun owners it's the nuts that should have never been able to legally possess them"_
> 
> ...


You display your ignorance once again.

Our federal gun laws clearly state who is prohibited from owning firearms.

We just do not enforce them.

And this last shooting could have been prevented by a locked door


----------



## citygator (May 25, 2022)

You fuckers want to pass laws to protect kids’ morals “don’t  say gay” and protect kids’ feelings “anti-CRT” but don’t want to protect 2nd graders from being ripped to shreds by bullets?  Um. Ok.


----------



## Blues Man (May 25, 2022)

citygator said:


> You fuckers want to pass laws to protect kids’ morals “don’t  say gay” and protecting kids’ feelings “anti-CRT” but don’t want to protect 2nd graders from being ripped to shreds?  Um. Ok.


Something as simple as a locked door would have prevented this latest school shooting.

When we let anyone just walk into a school anytime this is what happens.


----------



## SweetSue92 (May 25, 2022)

citygator said:


> You fuckers want to pass laws to protect kids’ morals “don’t  say gay” and protect kids’ feelings “anti-CRT” but don’t want to protect 2nd graders from being ripped to shreds by bullets?  Um. Ok.



2nd Amendment. Sorry not sorry. That's so we don't turn into China...or for that matter, Canada.

We can start protecting the 2nd graders by getting nutbags into mental institutions


----------



## Captain Caveman (May 25, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> You display your ignorance once again.
> 
> Our federal gun laws clearly state who is prohibited from owning firearms.
> 
> ...


The mental state of a gun nut mind is below a tranny Democrat's mind


----------



## Captain Caveman (May 25, 2022)

citygator said:


> You fuckers want to pass laws to protect kids’ morals “don’t  say gay” and protect kids’ feelings “anti-CRT” but don’t want to protect 2nd graders from being ripped to shreds by bullets?  Um. Ok.


The sooner Congress scrap the 2nd, the sooner America can start to sort out the gun problem


----------



## Blues Man (May 25, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> 2nd Amendment. Sorry not sorry. That's so we don't turn into China...or for that matter, Canada.
> 
> We can start protecting the 2nd graders by getting nutbags into mental institutions


How stupid are these people that they do not understand that a locked steel door would have prevented this shooting?


----------



## Blues Man (May 25, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> The sooner Congress scrap the 2nd, the sooner America can start to sort out the gun problem



Congress can't change the Constitution.

You do like to display your ignorance


----------



## SweetSue92 (May 25, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> How stupid are these people that they do not understand that a locked steel door would have prevented this shooting?



It's hard to tell if they are this stupid (always a possibility) or just acting purposely so as a cover to get guns.


----------



## Penelope (May 25, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> There he goes again. Using the tragedy of dead kids for political grandstanding.  What an asshole!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well that what it is.


----------



## Penelope (May 25, 2022)

I'd get rid of all assault weapons. Abbott isn't doing his job, anybody who want a gun can have at it.


----------



## Captain Caveman (May 25, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Congress can't change the Constitution.
> 
> You do like to display your ignorance


Congress, the House, the President, the Janitor; those in charge of the constitution. As soon as the 2nd is scrap, they can start to sort out you nut cases.

You nut cases keep saying, more guns, more erections over guns etc.. and the problem gets worse. You fucking idiots.


----------



## Captain Caveman (May 25, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> How stupid are these people that they do not understand that a locked steel door would have prevented this shooting?


That's what you have on your house to stop all these home invasions you perceive you suffer from


----------



## Ray9 (May 25, 2022)

We could use the logic taking away everyone's guns to save lives stopping the highway carnage of drunken driving especially after Covid. If we just took away all the cars, then millions of lives could be spared. More people die at the hands of people drinking too much in in America than any other country. All of these people are killing others with cars! There are too many cars in America, and they are too fast.  Does Biden's logic not make sense? We need to get rid of all those cars! If we took away all the cars many more lives would be saved than the tiny amount of people killed with guns. And cars like guns are inanimate objects that do nothing unless a person operates them. Get ready to walk and take public transportation if this logic persists.









						Drunk Driving | NHTSA
					

Get resources on ways to prevent drunk driving and alcohol-impaired crashes along with national drunk driving statistics and facts.




					www.nhtsa.gov


----------



## zaangalewa (May 25, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> There he goes again. Using the tragedy of dead kids for political grandstanding.  What an asshole!! ...



The asshole is you because you are the ruthless basic for many terrible crimes with weapons.


----------



## Blues Man (May 25, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Congress, the House, the President, the Janitor; those in charge of the constitution. As soon as the 2nd is scrap, they can start to sort out you nut cases.
> 
> You nut cases keep saying, more guns, more erections over guns etc.. and the problem gets worse. You fucking idiots.


Wrong again


----------



## Blues Man (May 25, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> That's what you have on your house to stop all these home invasions you perceive you suffer from


Where did I ever say worry about home invasions?

I really don't because yes I have steel exterior doors and I keep those doors locked.  I close and lock my windows at night I have 2 dogs that will bark like crazy if someone tried to get in and I have my 9mm in my nightstand drawer and a shotgun under the bed

So no I'm not worried one bit about any home invasions


----------



## Captain Caveman (May 25, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Where did I ever say worry about home invasions?
> 
> I really don't because yes I have steel exterior doors and I keep those doors locked.  I close and lock my windows at night I have 2 dogs that will bark like crazy if someone tried to get in and I have my 9mm in my nightstand drawer and a shotgun under the bed
> 
> So no I'm not worried one bit about any home invasions



On the self defence fallacy thread, one part the topic was the need for a gun due to home invasions which you were kinda part of because I just checked. So progression from that thread to the comment about steel doors, yourself and fellow gun nuts have steel doors on their homes too. Don't you?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

Ray9 said:


> We could use the logic taking away everyone's guns to save lives stopping the highway carnage of drunken driving especially after Covid. If we just took away all the cars, then millions of lives could be spared. More people die at the hands of people drinking too much in in America than any other country. All of these people are killing others with cars! There are too many cars in America, and they are too fast.  Does Biden's logic not make sense? We need to get rid of all those cars! If we took away all the cars many more lives would be saved than the tiny amount of people killed with guns. And cars like guns are inanimate objects that do nothing unless a person operates them. Get ready to walk and take public transportation if this logic persists.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The Democrats are not stupid, they only act that way.  They know damn well if they ever had the ability to take away guns, the criminals would never give up theirs.  That would leave us with a disarmed society where only the criminals and police have the guns. 

Anybody that thinks that's a good idea, I always tell them to get a huge sign made that says WE HAVE NO FIREARMS IN THIS HOME and put that on their front porch for a couple of months.  Because that's exactly what we'd be doing, telling the armed criminal we have no way to defend ourselves.  Then get back to us after a few months (if you're still alive) and let us know how that sign worked out for you.

What these people don't realize is they are safer with the concept of an armed citizenry because the criminals have no idea who is carrying a gun or not.


----------



## Nostra (May 25, 2022)

Veggie Joe has been in DC for 150 years, so why is he still whining and crying about nothing being done? WTF has he done about it?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> The sooner Congress scrap the 2nd, the sooner America can start to sort out the gun problem



It would never happen.  The public would revolt.  When was the last time we passed an amendment in this country?  You would need so many reps to even try something like that.


----------



## Blues Man (May 25, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> On the self defence fallacy thread, one part the topic was the need for a gun due to home invasions which you were kinda part of because I just checked. So progression from that thread to the comment about steel doors, yourself and fellow gun nuts have steel doors on their homes too. Don't you?


Where did I say anything about home invasions?

And yes steel doors with robust locks are the single best investment you can make in security.

My exterior doors are steel and they look damn good

My front door looks a lot like this one with smaller windows


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

citygator said:


> You fuckers want to pass laws to protect kids’ morals “don’t  say gay” and protect kids’ feelings “anti-CRT” but don’t want to protect 2nd graders from being ripped to shreds by bullets?  Um. Ok.



Who said we don't want these school shootings stopped?  You buy the leftist lies like "Don't say gay" which you won't find the word "gay" in the parental rights law.  The reason you are ignorant to these things is because you follow the lowest rated news shows (like CNN) that lie to you constantly about it.


----------



## Blues Man (May 25, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> On the self defence fallacy thread, one part the topic was the need for a gun due to home invasions which you were kinda part of because I just checked. So progression from that thread to the comment about steel doors, yourself and fellow gun nuts have steel doors on their homes too. Don't you?


And where have I ever mentioned home invasions?

Are you too stupid to realize you are talking to different people?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> You stated -
> 
> _"The problem isn't the guns and it isn't law abiding gun owners it's the nuts that should have never been able to legally possess them"_
> 
> ...











						UK police behind effort to ban knives to end ‘knife violence’
					

British police are supporting an effort called “Save a Life: Surrender Your Knife” in an attempt to curb the growing rash of “knife crime”.




					personalliberty.com
				












						London's murder rate surpasses New York's for 1st time ever
					

Depending who you ask, surging knife and gun crime could be blamed on social media, lax law enforcement, budget cuts or all of the above




					www.cbsnews.com
				












						After murder rate passes NYC, London Mayor Sadiq Khan calls for sharper knife control
					

"No excuses: there is never a reason to carry a knife," Sadiq Khan said. London recently surpassed New York City's homicide rate for the first time.



					www.usatoday.com
				












						After murder rate passes NYC, London Mayor Sadiq Khan calls for sharper knife control
					

"No excuses: there is never a reason to carry a knife," Sadiq Khan said. London recently surpassed New York City's homicide rate for the first time.



					www.usatoday.com
				




The heart of killing is not contained in a gun.  The heart of killing is contained in the human being.  A person that wants to kill is going to kill and taking away guns won't change the heart of one killer or criminal.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

Slade3200 said:


> Because they would prefer to see less guns on the streets and they’d like to make it harder for criminals and future criminals to gain access to guns



You're never going to stop criminals from getting guns by taking them away from law abiding citizens.  You get guns away from the criminal by passing tough laws and penalties from criminals having guns in the first place.  

In NYC they had a Stop and Frisk law.  It reduced murders, particularly black murders considerably.  They were forced to get rid of it because the lowlifes took it to court.  But after it was removed, murders shot right back up again within a few years.  Why was it successful?  Because it didn't affect the law abiding citizen, it only gave criminals more concern about illegally carrying firearms.  That's how you approach the problem, go after the criminal.


----------



## BluesLegend (May 25, 2022)

Slade3200 said:


> Why aren’t you fighting to legalize bombs? I mean it isn’t the bomb doing the killing it’s the person who decided to use it… right?


Why are you a stupid troll?


----------



## BluesLegend (May 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You're never going to stop criminals from getting guns by taking them away from law abiding citizens.


With Biden's open southern border we know guns would pour into the USA even if all guns were banned and confiscated.


----------



## 2aguy (May 25, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> There he goes again. Using the tragedy of dead kids for political grandstanding.  What an asshole!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The shooter…..known to the school and the police….he was violent and threatening……

This info was expected based on past young killers…


----------



## 2aguy (May 25, 2022)

Calypso Jones said:


> This is gonna disappear fasst for so many reasons.



You mean his Hispanic heritage or transvestite behavior?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

forkup said:


> If someone comes up with the argument that criminals will always find guns, I will argue that this person first legally bought the guns and only then used it to commit a crime. Thereby demonstrating the argument invalid in this case. And further referring to the fact that other countries clearly have crime and criminals but very few of these kinds of shootings. That's what I meant.
> 
> As to your arguments. First, restriction of gun ownership and treatment of citizens are 2 separate matters. There are a few countries that indeed restrict gun ownership and treat their citizens badly. But many more treat their citizens perfectly fine while restricting gun ownership. So tying them makes little sense.
> 
> Second, check out the amounts of gun incident by country. You will notice that the US not only has some of the fewest gun regulations in the world, especially amongst Western nations and at the same time the highest amount of gun violence in the world. You are. Claiming there is no connection between the 2? As for more guns. Since 1997 the amount of gun purchases has increased by 600 percent. What hasn't gotten better, in fact it's gotten worse is mass shootings.



Yet mass shootings is not our main concern. You have more people die of gun deaths in two weeks in Chicago than you did in the one Buffalo shooting, in one of the most gun restrictive cities in the country.  It doesn't work and cant work that way.  And just wait, a three day holiday weekend is coming up. 

Oh, but these are kids!!!  Do you think kids don't get killed in drive by shootings and targeted homes where drug use is going on?  We just had one here this week.









						14-year-old girl killed in Cleveland shooting
					

The Cleveland Division of Police is investigating the shooting death of a 14-year-old girl.




					fox8.com
				




But the Communists are not worried about that.  They are spending 5 billion dollars on charging stations for their stupid electric cars they hope to force us into instead of more security at these schools. But what the hell, isn't pandering to this fallacy of man made climate change more important than these kids?


----------



## Captain Caveman (May 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It would never happen.  The public would revolt.  When was the last time we passed an amendment in this country?  You would need so many reps to even try something like that.


Here's a link to amendments, was the last one the 27th? Explains how the constitution can be changed. There's a clue in the name, "Amendments", that means you can amend something and amendments can also be amended -









						How Difficult Is It to Amend the Constitution?
					

Find out about the processes used to amend the Constitution and see how many times the Constitution has been amended.




					www.thoughtco.com


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> My district alone has 11 schools. Where you gonna get the people and the funding for that? Who would want that job? Although the news is horrid and an outrage, the truth is still that school shootings are exceedingly rare



Then what better job can one have than just sitting around for something that won't likely happen?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Here's a link to amendments, was the last one the 27th? Explains how the constitution can be changed. There's a clue in the name, "Amendments", that means you can amend something and amendments can also be amended -
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Exactly.  So in other words it's virtually impossible to get an amendment changed, especially on something this controversial and divided.

But hey, I'm a compromising type of guy. Before we take guns away from law abiding citizens, I say we make a law that no Hollywood elitist or politician outside of the President is allowed to carry a firearm or have armed security for their protection.  After all, how is my life any less valuable than theirs?  Bet you'd see half these moon bats shut their mouths about taking guns away from us.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

BluesLegend said:


> With Biden's open southern border we know guns would pour into the USA even if all guns were banned and confiscated.



Yep.  When they can show me how successful laws are against dangerous drugs like fentanyl from stopping people from taking or selling it, then we can extrapolate that success to guns.  But as of last year, we had a record amount of OD deaths in the US, something like 104,000 if I'm not mistaken.  It only got worse.


----------



## Captain Caveman (May 25, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Where did I say anything about home invasions?
> 
> And yes steel doors with robust locks are the single best investment you can make in security.
> 
> ...


Post #279 in the self defence fallacy thread, you said if your house is burgualized 

Of course your doors are steel, every gullible person knows that. You're not constipated are you?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> So tell me high IQ person, how do you know everyone is going to be law abiding with guns



We don't, anymore than we know everybody on the internet won't use various services for criminal activity or every driver on the road will be safe and never be intoxicated and get behind the wheel.  But we don't take away internet access or driving privileges away from everybody to accomplish that.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> If that's not the case then why is it democrats always attack guns and the law abiding public who own them instead of addressing the actual issues in these shootings?
> 
> Why is it Biden spent so much time today blaming guns, the NRA, "lobbyists" etc instead of addressing the real issue which is why this guy was legally eligible to purchase a rifle in the first place?



It goes back to the theory of killing bees that made a nest in your home.  You will never get anywhere by spraying all the bees you see going in and out of your house.  You need to kill the queen be to make them go away. 

Same thing with this ridiculous attack on any gun lobbyist.  The NRA supports our right to the second Amendment.  They are looked at by the Communists the same way we look at the queen bee invading your home.  Kill that and the better chance they have at making the movement much weaker.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

Issa said:


> Most of the countries don't have these mass shootings, u know why ? Because they have almost no guns available for everyone to grab.



Bullshit.  If you go to a nice quiet middle-class white suburb, and make law that every household must have  firearm in it, you won't see any change in their crime statistics.  Then you go to a minority crime filled city, make law that nobody can have a firearm in their home, and their crime statistics won't change either.  

Point is, the gun doesn't make people into criminals.  They are already hate filled criminals that use a gun for convenience.  But if they want to kill, they are going to kill.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

forkup said:


> This person wasn't a criminal until he shot all these kids. Not for nothing. All these attempts to disassociate gun violence from guns is getting old. There is NO Western nation that has this kind of thing happening at even a vaguely similar rate to the US. Every and all bogus reasoning you can come up with runs into that fact. More guns brings more gun violence and the rights insistence that nothing should be done about it concerning guns is simply immoral.



All these other great countries and none of you anti-gun leftists ever move there. 

The fact of the matter is the US is the most diverse country in the world, and most of our crime is caused by minorities.  In fact over 50% of our murders are committed by 13% of our population, and that are blacks, followed by Hispanics.  And if you consider most murders are by males, its actually 8% of our society that leads the rest of the country.  

You can't compare single culture or predominately white societies to ours.  Keep the guns and take the minorities out of the picture, you'll see the US compare to many of those other single-culture societies you speak of.  What was the name of this gunman again?  Salvador Ramos?  Certainly doesn't sound like anybody from European ancestor heritage to me.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (May 25, 2022)

It is transparent as fuck that none of these motherfucking gun grabbing pieces of shit are in any way whatsoever interested in safety.

They are interested in disarming YOU  so that you can't do anything to stop them when they do something that would warrant them get a shot.

This is what happens when authoritarians try to rule.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

White 6 said:


> That tired old trope is no excuse.  This wasn't a gang criminal deal. It is a disturbed adolescent, upon leaving a domestic situation where he shot his own grandmother.  There is no way to say, he would have had the weapons, as his own state Senator, briefed by his own state police said he bought them on his birthday when he turned 18 as is legal in the State of Texas and most other states under federal fire arms laws.



And if he didn't get them legally, that would have stopped him from getting guns illegally, the most popular way criminals get guns for crime?  

Step one in addressing this problem is to forget the theory guns turn people into criminals, and without guns, they would just be your average law abiding citizen.


----------



## Slade3200 (May 25, 2022)

Kosh said:


> Sharper than you and any other far left religious cult follower.
> 
> Of course the far left believes guns kill people..


I’ve never heard anybody say they believe such craziness. If that’s what you really think then you truly are dumber than door nails


----------



## JWBooth (May 25, 2022)




----------



## Slade3200 (May 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You're never going to stop criminals from getting guns by taking them away from law abiding citizens.  You get guns away from the criminal by passing tough laws and penalties from criminals having guns in the first place.
> 
> In NYC they had a Stop and Frisk law.  It reduced murders, particularly black murders considerably.  They were forced to get rid of it because the lowlifes took it to court.  But after it was removed, murders shot right back up again within a few years.  Why was it successful?  Because it didn't affect the law abiding citizen, it only gave criminals more concern about illegally carrying firearms.  That's how you approach the problem, go after the criminal.


You don’t think stop and frisk affected the law abiding citizen?! Are you high??


----------



## BluesLegend (May 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yep.  When they can show me how successful laws are against dangerous drugs like fentanyl from stopping people from taking or selling it, then we can extrapolate that success to guns.  But as of last year, we had a record amount of OD deaths in the US, something like 104,000 if I'm not mistaken.  It only got worse.


79,000 alone were from Fentanyl deaths. 79,000 dead Americans vs 19 dead Americans yet Dems are completely silent on taking action to prevent another 79,000.


----------



## Slade3200 (May 25, 2022)

BluesLegend said:


> Why are you a stupid troll?


Im not. Back to the topic now bucko. Stay on point. Trolls dodge the topic to focus on personal insults. That’s what you just did


----------



## BluesLegend (May 25, 2022)

Slade3200 said:


> Im not. Back to the topic now bucko. Stay on point. Trolls dodge the topic to focus on personal insults. That’s what you just did


Your post was a troll post, troll so get lost.


----------



## Independentthinker (May 25, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> There he goes again. Using the tragedy of dead kids for political grandstanding.  What an asshole!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yup. The facts haven't even come out yet and Biden is already clamoring for gun control legislation that may have had no effect. In just about every mass shooting there is, the left cannot point to one "common sense" gun control law that would have prevented the shooting.


----------



## BluesLegend (May 25, 2022)

citygator said:


> You fuckers want to pass laws to protect kids’ morals “don’t  say gay” and protect kids’ feelings “anti-CRT” but don’t want to protect 2nd graders from being ripped to shreds by bullets?  Um. Ok.


Look who's talking, your open borders policies killed 79,000 Americans with Fentanyl yet you double talking scumbags on the left avoid discussing that like the plague. 79,000 dead vs 19 dead, the left is 100% full of shit with no credibility.


----------



## Slade3200 (May 25, 2022)

BluesLegend said:


> Your post was a troll post, troll so get lost.


Your last two posts were trolling. Had nothing to do with the topic and were focused on trying to call me a name. Get a mirror and while you’re at it see if you can find your way back to the topic.


----------



## 2aguy (May 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> All these other great countries and none of you anti-gun leftists ever move there.
> 
> The fact of the matter is the US is the most diverse country in the world, and most of our crime is caused by minorities.  In fact over 50% of our murders are committed by 13% of our population, and that are blacks, followed by Hispanics.  And if you consider most murders are by males, its actually 8% of our society that leads the rest of the country.
> 
> You can't compare single culture or predominately white societies to ours.  Keep the guns and take the minorities out of the picture, you'll see the US compare to many of those other single-culture societies you speak of.  What was the name of this gunman again?  Salvador Ramos?  Certainly doesn't sound like anybody from European ancestor heritage to me.




actually, that 13% number is innacurate......young black males are about 7% of the population...it is this group that is responsible for over 50% o the gun murder in the country......and the majority of their victims are young black men too...


----------



## Captain Caveman (May 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> *We don't*, anymore than we know everybody on the internet won't use various services for criminal activity or every driver on the road will be safe and never be intoxicated and get behind the wheel.  But we don't take away internet access or driving privileges away from everybody to accomplish that.


Precisely, so rather than allowing everyone just to have Right to bear arms, do you think they need checked out, and their family too.?

Now, with the current mass killing, the 18 year old shot his grandmother first. So what did the grandmother know etc..? So when he reached 18, if he had to apply for a gun licence and him and his family checked, would there have been a possibility his grandmother would have raised some serious points?

At the end of the day, if you have a robust background check that involved family member interviews and doctor's records, anyone who's law abiding and would have no problem achieving a licence, has nothing to fear. Plus, that lad wouldn't have an AR-15 because that type of rifle is not suitable in a civilised society.


----------



## Flash (May 25, 2022)

Biden blames Putin for our high cost of energy, mega MAGAs for his administration's massive failures and he blames the corporations for his inflation so he doesn't exactly have a stellar record of getting things right, does he?


----------



## Slade3200 (May 25, 2022)

Flash said:


> Biden blames Putin for our high cost of energy, mega MAGAs for his administration's massive failures and he blames the corporations for his inflation so he doesn't exactly have a stellar record of getting things right, does he?


You don’t think the Ukraine war that was started by Putin has an effect on gas prices? You don’t think corporations have an impact on how they price their own goods? Have you looked at what kind of profits they have been making?


----------



## miketx (May 25, 2022)

I think some if those guns must have the combination to the safe they live in!


----------



## miketx (May 25, 2022)

Slade3200 said:


> You don’t think the Ukraine war that was started by Putin has an effect on gas prices? You don’t think corporations have an impact on how they price their own goods? Have you looked at what kind of profits they have been making?


Gas was sky high before then liar.


----------



## miketx (May 25, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Raising the age to buy his weapons to 21, same as hand guns would have at least put it off for 3 years.


Lol, never stops crazies...


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 25, 2022)

The Democrats aren't going to do anything about guns - especially in -this- election cycle.
They're -far- more interested in holding on to their power than doing the "right hing".


----------



## White 6 (May 25, 2022)

struth said:


> 18 year olds aren’t adolescents.   They are adults  Even folks like Salvador Ramos


Bullsh#t.  Here they can't even buy booze, usually need a co-signer for loans, have a low threshold of frustration and prone to acting without thinking of long term consequences, have a incident rate of suicide and establishing long term responsible relationship, miss more work, take foolish chances, more likely to be in an accident, careless as to who they associate with, cannot even hold a CDL Class A license, due to lack due to accident rate.   Being legally able to sign contracts and be held liable in court as an adult, and join the military does not change the mentality and mental/emotional stability.


----------



## Leo123 (May 25, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> The asshole is you because you are the ruthless basic for many terrible crimes with weapons.


Insults are rhe refuge of the ignorant.


----------



## Slade3200 (May 25, 2022)

butchyboy said:


> Gas was sky high before then liar.


Yes it was, shooting up from the worldwide production/supply issues caused by a pandemic. Did that part go over your head?


----------



## miketx (May 25, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Bullsh#t.  Here they can't even buy booze, usually need a co-signer for loans, have a low threshold of frustration and prone to acting without thinking of long term consequences, have a incident rate of suicide and establishing long term responsible relationship, miss more work, take foolish chances, more likely to be in an accident, careless as to who they associate with, cannot even hold a CDL Class A license, due to lack due to accident rate.   Being legally able to sign contracts and be held liable in court as an adult, and join the military does not change the mentality and mental/emotional stability.


But they can join the military and die for their country. Lol


----------



## surada (May 25, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> There he goes again. Using the tragedy of dead kids for political grandstanding.  What an asshole!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Israel has very strict gun laws.









						Comparing America to Israel on gun laws is dishonest – and revealing
					

US conservatives like to point out that both societies are well-armed, but the similarity ends there: Israelis trust their state, and don't fear each other




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## miketx (May 25, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> The asshole is you because you are the ruthless basic for many terrible crimes with weapons.


Sez the butcher supporter.


----------



## miketx (May 25, 2022)

Slade3200 said:


> Yes it was, shooting up from the worldwide production/supply issues caused by a pandemic. Did that part go over your head?


Lying again sure comes easy to traitors.


----------



## Leo123 (May 25, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Well that what it is.


Yes, standing on dead bodies of kids to make a political point.  Biden is no better than rhe murderer.


----------



## Slade3200 (May 25, 2022)

butchyboy said:


> Lying again sure comes easy to traitors.


Please explain how my statement is a lie.


----------



## WTH_Progs? (May 25, 2022)

It's Trump's fault:








						“Trump isn’t out there with a gun, but he’s enabled a war against Black people,” says Cornel West
					

Civil rights activist and philosopher Cornel West called out former President Donald Trump for leading a “hate campaign” against Black and brown people. In his op-ed at The Guardian, West reacted to the Buffalo supermarket shooting not with surprise but recognizing the pattern of violence that...




					www.yahoo.com


----------



## whitehall (May 25, 2022)

Never let a tragedy go to waste. It's ironic that Biden was V.P. under Obama when a federal agency hatched an insane plan to ship over 3,000 illegal weapons to Mexican drug cartels. Biden was nowhere to be found when one of the weapons surfaced in the murder of a Border Patrol Officer.


----------



## Slade3200 (May 25, 2022)

whitehall said:


> Never let a tragedy go to waste. It's ironic that Biden was V.P. under Obama when a federal agency hatched an insane plan to ship over 3,000 illegal weapons to Mexican drug cartels. Biden was nowhere to be found when one of the weapons surfaced in the murder of a Border Patrol Officer.


A truly unfortunate event… what’s your point??


----------



## Blues Man (May 25, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Post #279 in the self defence fallacy thread, you said if your house is burgualized
> 
> Of course your doors are steel, every gullible person knows that. You're not constipated are you?


So what that's not a home invasion it's a burglary









						What Are the Differences Between Home Invasion and Burglary? - Skokie IL Criminal Defense
					

Home invasion is different from burglary under Illinois law – and the penalties can be different, too. Here’s what you need to know.




					ildefense.com


----------



## White 6 (May 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> And if he didn't get them legally, that would have stopped him from getting guns illegally, the most popular way criminals get guns for crime?
> 
> Step one in addressing this problem is to forget the theory guns turn people into criminals, and without guns, they would just be your average law abiding citizen.


Nobody thinks guns turn people into criminal.  They have just become the chosen acceptable tool of choice to support their maneuver or plans.


----------



## White 6 (May 25, 2022)

butchyboy said:


> Lol, never stops crazies...


Fine for you if you feel it better to throw up your hands, say there is nothing we can do, and you kids be careful while learning your ABCs, spell "cat" and add 15 + 15.  We won't even worry about people that have a religion different from yours or any religion at all.


----------



## Nostra (May 25, 2022)

Maybe we should take all dudes in dresses  and lock them up and throw away the key.


----------



## miketx (May 25, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Fine for you if you feel it better to throw up your hands, say there is nothing we can do, and you kids be careful while learning your ABCs, spell "cat" and add 15 + 15.  We won't even worry about people that have a religion different from yours or any religion at all.


Never said there was nothing we could do liar. Spew more bullshit.


----------



## 22lcidw (May 25, 2022)

Slade3200 said:


> A truly unfortunate event… what’s your point??


If we were a free and sovereign nation, surgical strikes on the drug cartel chiefs in Mexico and other nations would occur.


----------



## Slade3200 (May 25, 2022)

22lcidw said:


> If we were a free and sovereign nation, surgical strikes on the drug cartel chiefs in Mexico and other nations would occur.


Well that would be and is up to leadership. Has nothing to do with being free and sovereign


----------



## miketx (May 25, 2022)

Slade3200 said:


> Well that would be and is up to leadership. Has nothing to do with being free and sovereign


We don't have any leadership.


----------



## Slade3200 (May 25, 2022)

butchyboy said:


> We don't have any leadership.


You really are a lost soul if you believe that


----------



## miketx (May 25, 2022)

Slade3200 said:


> You really are a lost soul if you believe that


No I'm not a liar like you.


----------



## White 6 (May 25, 2022)

butchyboy said:


> But they can join the military and die for their country. Lol


Yep.  Works for me.  I enlisted and later became an officer and gentleman by act of congress.  I managed, trained and worked with these kids, treating them as adults, but recognizing the difference, first hand.  Back when I was taking an advance course while a Brigadier General's aide, shared an appartment with Captain from California, a Major General's aide.  I was spoke like you, in a conversation with him. He said, come on dude, we're gonna do an experiment.  We changed into civvies and went to a movei over at the reception station, was we were on a basic training base at the time.  Imagine a small theater filled with 18 year old guys, away from home, parents for the first time and not even having had the effects of being under the control of Drill Sergeants yet or any Sergeants.  It was pandemonium, you could hardly hear over the laughing, shouts, popcorn flew through the air in popcorn fights, and an actual small fight broke out down front.  We didn't break it up.  These were not our troops.  The captain said we're just here to observe, and now you see, you have been dealing with the finished effect of training and only somewhat instilled discipline.  Over the years, you realize most of your personnel problem come from lower, younger enlisted and the maturity factor.


----------



## miketx (May 25, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Yep.  Works for me.  I enlisted and later became an officer and gentleman by act of congress.  I managed, trained and worked with these kids, treating them as adults, but recognizing the difference, first hand.  Back when I was taking an advance course while a Brigadier General's aide, shared an appartment with Captain from California, a Major General's aide.  I was spoke like you, in a conversation with him. He said, come on dude, we're gonna do an experiment.  We changed into civvies and went to a movei over at the reception station, was we were on a basic training base at the time.  Imagine a small theater filled with 18 year old guys, away from home, parents for the first time and not even having had the effects of being under the control of Drill Sergeants yet or any Sergeants.  It was pandemonium, you could hardly hear over the laughing, shouts, popcorn flew through the air in popcorn fights, and an actual small fight broke out down front.  We didn't break it up.  These were not our troops.  The captain said we're just here to observe, and now you see, you have been dealing with the finished effect of training and only somewhat instilled discipline.  Over the years, you realize most of your personnel problem come from lower, younger enlisted and the maturity factor.


Excellent deflection goomer.


----------



## White 6 (May 25, 2022)

butchyboy said:


> Never said there was nothing we could do liar. Spew more bullshit.


How old are you?  Is "liar" what you call your co-workers, subordinates and superiors when they say something you do not agree with? Or are you just being an internet dufus?


----------



## Billy_Bob (May 25, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Raising the age to buy his weapons to 21, same as hand guns would have at least put it off for 3 years.


Where do you to get this tripe?  IF he wanted to do this it doesn't matter what age he is. Its the person not the tool. Stupidity abounds with leftists.


----------



## theHawk (May 25, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> There he goes again. Using the tragedy of dead kids for political grandstanding.  What an asshole!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They are all screaming “how many kids have to die before we do something”.

The same people who advocate for abortion on demand up to birth and even after.


----------



## Billy_Bob (May 25, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> There he goes again. Using the tragedy of dead kids for political grandstanding.  What an asshole!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sadly, this was very predictable.  Didn't wait for facts but lied out of his ass...  

The kid killed his grandmother before being chased into this school. He then shot people indiscriminately..  Red flags everywhere in his social media and in his personal contacts. Joe didn't wait for facts and now he will wear it like egg splatter...


----------



## Billy_Bob (May 25, 2022)

theHawk said:


> They are all screaming “how many kids have to die before we do something”.
> 
> The same people who advocate for abortion on demand up to birth and even after.


These are the same people who do not want a death penalty as well...  These idiots have no moral compass.


----------



## whitehall (May 25, 2022)

Slade3200 said:


> A truly unfortunate event… what’s your point??


Simple point that Biden is a freaking hypocrite. It ain't about guns, it's about trying to regain political power by using a tragedy and the bodies of 18 kids. If Biden cared about gun violence he should have sought the indictment of the ATF agents who were responsible for the death of the Border Patrol Officer but nobody was even fired much less indicted.


----------



## White 6 (May 25, 2022)

Billy_Bob said:


> Where do you to get this tripe?  IF he wanted to do this it doesn't matter what age he is. Its the person not the tool. Stupidity abounds with leftists.


Buy a lot of illegal weapons at 18 or younger, did you?


----------



## Nostra (May 25, 2022)

UPDATE: School police officer who exchanged gunfire with the dress wearing dude was shot, but caused him to drop a backpack full of ammo.

Good guy with a gun probably saved dozens of lives.


----------



## White 6 (May 25, 2022)

Nostra said:


> UPDATE: School police officer who exchanged gunfire with the dress wearing dude was shot, but caused him to drop a backpack full of ammo.
> 
> Good guy with a gun probably saved dozens of lives.


Doesn't look like it.  A couple of 30 rnd magazine goes a long way against unarmed little kids.  I understand some of the kids having to be identified by their clothes, shoes and DNA.  Did you know a 5.56 NATO round can actually explode a small child's head, due to the overpressure of impact at 3,000 foot pounds at 2,862 feet per second of that 62 grain projectile weighing .0135 lbs?


----------



## struth (May 25, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Bullsh#t.  Here they can't even buy booze, usually need a co-signer for loans, have a low threshold of frustration and prone to acting without thinking of long term consequences, have a incident rate of suicide and establishing long term responsible relationship, miss more work, take foolish chances, more likely to be in an accident, careless as to who they associate with, cannot even hold a CDL Class A license, due to lack due to accident rate.   Being legally able to sign contracts and be held liable in court as an adult, and join the military does not change the mentality and mental/emotional stability.


They might need a co-signer if the lender is smart, but not required…they can enter into legal contracts, be tried as adults, vote, die for our country 

They are adults


----------



## Slade3200 (May 25, 2022)

butchyboy said:


> No I'm not a liar like you.


Can you point to one lie that I’ve told? Please go ahead


----------



## White 6 (May 25, 2022)

struth said:


> They might need a co-signer if the lender is smart, but not required…they can enter into legal contracts, be tried as adults, vote, die for our country
> 
> They are adults


Often not that smart, unless the young buyer is early in a military contract, as they know, they can always make the military garnish pay and the young troop cannot even quit, so the lender is highly protected.


----------



## struth (May 25, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Often not that smart, unless the young buyer is early in a military contract, as they know, they can always make the military garnish pay and the young troop cannot even quit, so the lender is highly protected.


well and they have a secure job.

They can enter into the country to go die in the military because they are adults


----------



## Slade3200 (May 25, 2022)

whitehall said:


> Simple point that Biden is a freaking hypocrite. It ain't about guns, it's about trying to regain political power by using a tragedy and the bodies of 18 kids. If Biden cared about gun violence he should have sought the indictment of the ATF agents who were responsible for the death of the Border Patrol Officer but nobody was even fired much less indicted.


That makes no sense, Obama’s DHS fucked up during a sting op under his watch and you expected his VP Biden to speak out against it to prove he was against gun violence?! Are you new to politics? They were is disaster control mode


----------



## struth (May 25, 2022)

Slade3200 said:


> That makes no sense, Obama’s DHS fucked up during a sting op under his watch and you expected his VP Biden to speak out against it to prove he was against gun violence?! Are you new to politics? They were is disaster control mode


Xiden was VP, it was party of the admin.

He had a say


----------



## HandleTheTruth (May 25, 2022)

You gun huggers are sure a funny group.


----------



## Billy_Bob (May 25, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Buy a lot of illegal weapons at 18 or younger, did you?


As a retired Law Enforcement Officer, I arrested teens who bought them on the streets.  You think a law is going to stop this?  LOL   ROFLMAO  ONE word for you    CLUELESS


----------



## zaangalewa (May 25, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> Insults are rhe refuge of the ignorant.



So why did you insult your president Joe Biden? And why is someone able to buy war weapons for the own private psychopathic war against children of the citizens of the USA? You will again change nothing and again this will happen ... and again ... and again ... and again ... and again ... ... ...


----------



## Nostra (May 25, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Doesn't look like it.  A couple of 30 rnd magazine goes a long way against unarmed little kids.  I understand some of the kids having to be identified by their clothes, shoes and DNA.  Did you know a 5.56 NATO round can actually explode a small child's head, due to the overpressure of impact at 3,000 foot pounds at 2,862 feet per second of that 62 grain projectile weighing .0135 lbs?


So you don't think removing a backpack full of ammo saved lives?


----------



## theHawk (May 25, 2022)

Billy_Bob said:


> These are the same people who do not want a death penalty as well...  These idiots have no moral compass.


Exactly.  Kill the innocent and free the murderers.


----------



## Slade3200 (May 25, 2022)

struth said:


> Xiden was VP, it was party of the admin.
> 
> He had a say


True… and??


----------



## struth (May 25, 2022)

ty i guy gl


Slade3200 said:


> True… and??


he’s just to blame


----------



## BluesLegend (May 25, 2022)

Slade3200 said:


> Your last two posts were trolling. Had nothing to do with the topic and were focused on trying to call me a name. Get a mirror and while you’re at it see if you can find your way back to the topic.


That was me telling you to permanently buzz off.


----------



## Leo123 (May 25, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> So why did you insult your president Joe Biden? And why is someone able to buy war weapons for the own private psychopathic war against children of the citizens of the USA? You will again change nothing and again this will happen ... and again ... and again ... and again ... and again ... ... ...


Because Biden only cares about politics.  No one buys war weapons.  What needs to change is for schools to care enough to protect children from media-fed moral relative  crazies.  American society is devolving.  Laws without a moral base are useless.  No gun law will solve that.


----------



## White 6 (May 25, 2022)

struth said:


> well and they have a secure job.
> 
> They can enter into the country to go die in the military because they are adults


And I treated them that way, expecting them and at time demanding, they act that way.


----------



## struth (May 25, 2022)

White 6 said:


> And I treated them that way, expecting them and at time demanding, they act that way.


then why call them adolescents?  why shouldn’t they be able to buy a gun?


----------



## White 6 (May 25, 2022)

Billy_Bob said:


> As a retired Law Enforcement Officer, I arrested teens who bought them on the streets.  You think a law is going to stop this?  LOL   ROFLMAO  ONE word for you    CLUELESS


Don't be naïve.  I'm not.  I just believe in using all the tools.
Personally, I also liked stop and frisk.  Good way of getting illegal guns at least temporarily out of the hands of people that should not have them.


----------



## 2aguy (May 25, 2022)

Independentthinker said:


> Yup. The facts haven't even come out yet and Biden is already clamoring for gun control legislation that may have had no effect. In just about every mass shooting there is, the left cannot point to one "common sense" gun control law that would have prevented the shooting.



Not “may have,” it wouldn’t do anything but increase the cost and legal peril for normal gun owners….which is really all they care about……


----------



## 2aguy (May 25, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Don't be naïve.  I'm not.  I just believe in using all the tools.
> Personally, I also liked stop and frisk.  Good way of getting illegal guns at least temporarily out of the hands of people that should not have them.



The cops know who the criminals are, especially the beat cops…..the end of stop and frisk meant that criminals could walk around with illegal guns…..and this created a rise in shootings


----------



## White 6 (May 25, 2022)

Nostra said:


> So you don't think removing a backpack full of ammo saved lives?


Most of the casualties in these events occur in the first 4 minutes.  Taking a backpack of ammo from the nut ball in the hotel in Vegas shooting at the concert goers, maybe.  Not sure how many magazines this dead perp went through be for they adjusted him to a lower state of entropy.  Nobody has said he quit shooting because he ran out of ammo.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> So why did you insult your president Joe Biden? And why is someone able to buy war weapons for the own private psychopathic war against children of the citizens of the USA? You will again change nothing and again this will happen ... and again ... and again ... and again ... and again ... ... ...



It may, but you're never going to stop it by disarming everybody.  The criminals (like the ones that buy and sell dope) will always be able to get their hands on one, make one, or copy one on a 3D printer.  

In our country one has to actually commit a crime before we can do anything to them.  We can't hold people because "they may" snap for a very long time.


----------



## EvMetro (May 25, 2022)

The reason why lefties shift blame away from the shooter and over to the gun is because lefties feel a need to shield school shooters.  Lefties hate school kids, so they shield school shooters.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Nobody thinks guns turn people into criminal.  They have just become the chosen acceptable tool of choice to support their maneuver or plans.



Yes they have, but taking away guns from everybody won't change that.  The desire to kill doesn't come from a gun, it comes from the mind.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> The Democrats aren't going to do anything about guns - especially in -this- election cycle.
> They're -far- more interested in holding on to their power than doing the "right hing".



Exactly.  Dementia went on a rant about gun lobbyests, but I wonder if he'll have anything to say about illegals if it turns out this nut case wasn't here legally.


----------



## Slade3200 (May 25, 2022)

struth said:


> ty i guy gl
> 
> he’s just to blame


Haha, ok


----------



## Slade3200 (May 25, 2022)

BluesLegend said:


> That was me telling you to permanently buzz off.


Great way to avoid answering a legit question about the topic. That’s what weak minded people do. Dodge. Do better


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

Slade3200 said:


> You don’t think the Ukraine war that was started by Putin has an effect on gas prices? You don’t think corporations have an impact on how they price their own goods? Have you looked at what kind of profits they have been making?



Oh please.  If you're going to blame the Russian invasion, it will be the first war in history that caused major problems before it started.  Dementia closed down the Keystone while giving Russia his blessing to open up their pipeline.  Now they have the oil money to support that war, something that wouldn't have happened under Trump.  Dementia is a anti-energy President.  He not only ran on that, he won and showed the world he wasn't just talking shit.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Precisely, so rather than allowing everyone just to have Right to bear arms, do you think they need checked out, and their family too.?
> 
> Now, with the current mass killing, the 18 year old shot his grandmother first. So what did the grandmother know etc..? So when he reached 18, if he had to apply for a gun licence and him and his family checked, would there have been a possibility his grandmother would have raised some serious points?
> 
> At the end of the day, if you have a robust background check that involved family member interviews and doctor's records, anyone who's law abiding and would have no problem achieving a licence, has nothing to fear. Plus, that lad wouldn't have an AR-15 because that type of rifle is not suitable in a civilised society.



Guns are guns.  I know you probably don't understand that where you live, but trust me as a person that's handled guns for 40 years, the lack of an AR is not going to stop any killer.  He would just use other kinds of weapons. 

The point you make is precisely spot on, as an 18 year old, he had no record as an adult in which to stop him from legally buying a firearm.  Interview the family?  Do you know how many disfunctional families there are?  Our Constitution doesn't allow your rights to be taken away over the words of a disgruntled family member.  Unless you are actually committed of a crime, all your rights are legally yours to enjoy.


----------



## Slade3200 (May 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Oh please.  If you're going to blame the Russian invasion, it will be the first war in history that caused major problems before it started.  Dementia closed down the Keystone while giving Russia his blessing to open up their pipeline.  Now they have the oil money to support that war, something that wouldn't have happened under Trump.  Dementia is a anti-energy President.  He not only ran on that, he won and showed the world he wasn't just talking shit.


Pandemic caused the problems and the war was fuel on the fire. You can’t understand that?!


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

BluesLegend said:


> 79,000 alone were from Fentanyl deaths. 79,000 dead Americans vs 19 dead Americans yet Dems are completely silent on taking action to prevent another 79,000.



And how many of those deaths are children as well?  What about all the gun violence that it leads to on the street where kids are killed?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

Slade3200 said:


> You don’t think stop and frisk affected the law abiding citizen?! Are you high??



No I don't.  Police didn't stop and search anybody at random, they knew the people that were highly suspect of having an  illegal gun.  They were either people with multiple arrests, a prison record, somebody that just posted bond for carrying a gun, things like that.  

The criminals knew they were targets of that practice, and that's why they stopped carrying guns around as much.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

Slade3200 said:


> Pandemic caused the problems and the war was fuel on the fire. You can’t understand that?!



Our gasoline was about $2.00 a gallon during this same pandemic under Trump.  It wasn't the pandemic, it was who was leading us through it. 

What did you think would happen to the price of fuel when we replaced a pro-energy President with an anti-energy President?  People in the market that control these prices aren't stupid.  When Dementia closed down the Keystone prices increased.  When our largest gasoline pipeline was hacked by the Russians, Dementia said it's none of our business; it's a private market problem and the prices went up again. When he created all those anti-energy policies and stopped new exploration and drilling on public land, prices increased again.  

Ukraine was just the cherry on top.  But the other fact of the matter is Putin would have never dreamed of going into Ukraine with Trump as President.  Trump was too unpredictable.  When Un told us he had a red button, Trump responded by saying "we have a red button too, and ours is bigger and it actually works!"  Think Putin didn't take notice of such a comment?  Then when Dementia ran with his tail between is legs in Afghanistan leaving behind 83 billion dollars of US military equipment, Putin knew it was the perfect time to make his move.


----------



## White 6 (May 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yes they have, but taking away guns from everybody won't change that.  The desire to kill doesn't come from a gun, it comes from the mind.


They will not take them away from everyone.  Just add some more regulation.  Don't go full-blown fascist authoritarian takeover of America scared.  It does not work well with logical argument, especially with the not easily panicked type of people.


----------



## Captain Caveman (May 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Guns are guns.  I know you probably don't understand that where you live, but trust me as a person that's handled guns for 40 years, the lack of an AR is not going to stop any killer.  He would just use other kinds of weapons.
> 
> The point you make is precisely spot on, as an 18 year old, he had no record as an adult in which to stop him from legally buying a firearm.  Interview the family?  Do you know how many disfunctional families there are?  Our Constitution doesn't allow your rights to be taken away over the words of a disgruntled family member.  Unless you are actually committed of a crime, all your rights are legally yours to enjoy.


You need to make a start, and as the decades progress, the stats will go in the right direction. It doesn't happen over night, it doesn't happen in a few decades, it takes longer for a culture to change, for gun nut generations to die out to leave a better country


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (May 25, 2022)

You do realize that Democrats are so deathly afraid of guns because 99.99% of the time, it's one of their own in the areas they control that
uses one to kill someone.

It never occurs to them that their immoral, Godless policies, grooming children for gay sex, idolizing fame and fortune, destroying the family to control minorities and softness on violent offenders could possibly be the root issue here.


----------



## Slade3200 (May 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Our gasoline was about $2.00 a gallon during this same pandemic under Trump.  It wasn't the pandemic, it was who was leading us through it.
> 
> What did you think would happen to the price of fuel when we replaced a pro-energy President with an anti-energy President?  People in the market that control these prices aren't stupid.  When Dementia closed down the Keystone prices increased.  When our largest gasoline pipeline was hacked by the Russians, Dementia said it's none of our business; it's a private market problem and the prices went up again. When he created all those anti-energy policies and stopped new exploration and drilling on public land, prices increased again.
> 
> Ukraine was just the cherry on top.  But the other fact of the matter is Putin would have never dreamed of going into Ukraine with Trump as President.  Trump was too unpredictable.  When Un told us he had a red button, Trump responded by saying "we have a red button too, and ours is bigger and it actually works!"  Think Putin didn't take notice of such a comment?  Then when Dementia ran with his tail between is legs in Afghanistan leaving behind 83 billion dollars of US military equipment, Putin knew it was the perfect time to make his move.


Wow, you really believe all that don’t you?! Unbelievable


----------



## citygator (May 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Our gasoline was about $2.00 a gallon during this same pandemic under Trump.  It wasn't the pandemic, it was who was leading us through it.
> 
> What did you think would happen to the price of fuel when we replaced a pro-energy President with an anti-energy President?  People in the market that control these prices aren't stupid.  When Dementia closed down the Keystone prices increased.  When our largest gasoline pipeline was hacked by the Russians, Dementia said it's none of our business; it's a private market problem and the prices went up again. When he created all those anti-energy policies and stopped new exploration and drilling on public land, prices increased again.
> 
> Ukraine was just the cherry on top.  But the other fact of the matter is Putin would have never dreamed of going into Ukraine with Trump as President.  Trump was too unpredictable.  When Un told us he had a red button, Trump responded by saying "we have a red button too, and ours is bigger and it actually works!"  Think Putin didn't take notice of such a comment?  Then when Dementia ran with his tail between is legs in Afghanistan leaving behind 83 billion dollars of US military equipment, Putin knew it was the perfect time to make his move.


Nucking futs.


----------



## miketx (May 25, 2022)




----------



## BluesLegend (May 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> And how many of those deaths are children as well?  What about all the gun violence that it leads to on the street where kids are killed?


Complete crickets from Dems on this. Dems prove how phony they are daily.


----------



## Slade3200 (May 25, 2022)

BluesLegend said:


> Complete crickets from Dems on this. Dems prove how phony they are daily.


Trust me there were plenty of smirks and head shakes. Not all your crap is worth the time responding to.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

Slade3200 said:


> Wow, you really believe all that don’t you?! Unbelievable



Always believe the truth. The truth will set you free.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> You do realize that Democrats are so deathly afraid of guns because 99.99% of the time, it's one of their own in the areas they control that
> uses one to kill someone.
> 
> It never occurs to them that their immoral, Godless policies, grooming children for gay sex, idolizing fame and fortune, destroying the family to control minorities and softness on violent offenders could possibly be the root issue here.



It's really in all the grand scheme of things: 

As I stated earlier, Democrats know quite well what disarming the public would mean. It would mean all the law abiding citizens turning in their guns leaving us with a society where only the criminals and police have guns. 

Of course that would lead to a drastic increase of crime as we see in anti-gun cities today.  So what could our defense be against big crime?  The same as it was against big tobacco, big pharma, big corporations, and that is with a bigger federal government. 

Democrats hate self-reliant Americans.  That's why they work tirelessly to make us all dependents on them.  Democrats love victims and victims love Democrats.  If we could ever find a way to rid our society of victims and government dependents, the only time you'd hear of the Democrat party would be in history books and they know it. 

That's why Dementia's address to the country last night was disgusting, repulsive and down right disrespectful to the families of those children and the teacher who all lost their lives.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> You need to make a start, and as the decades progress, the stats will go in the right direction. It doesn't happen over night, it doesn't happen in a few decades, it takes longer for a culture to change, for gun nut generations to die out to leave a better country



US gun nuts you speak of use our firearms to stop a crime or for self-defense between 1 to 4 million times a year depending on who's estimate you use.  But let's take the one million figure: 

Without our firearms, we would have over a million more violent crimes each year.  We have plenty as it is now.  We don't need to be inviting more.  

In almost all cases of mass shootings, the perpetrator makes sure they use a target where the people are disarmed.  They don't want any resistance.  They want to kill as many people as possible, and using a target of people where some may be armed is a situation they avoid. 

As the NRA has said repeatedly, the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun, and that's been proven correct repeatedly.  Those kids were all sitting ducks until the border patrol special forces arrived to take down the gunman.  He made sure to choose a school where defense was as weak as possible, and never considered those special forces being nearby. 

Here in my city we hosted the Republican National Convention.  Because it was Donald Trump, the leftist terrorists promised us it would be a blood bath; people coming from all over the country to cause trouble; people being pulled out of their car and seriously hurt or killed.  The result?  Three arrests, and one of them was not even related to the convention. 

Why was that?  Because these threats came from people in commie states with strict gun controls and little legal protection for a victim that uses a firearm for self-defense.  Oh, in their cities they started police cars on fire, pulled people out of their car to beat them, even tried to burn down federal buildings.  But in our city and state, you try to break into somebody's car to cause harm, it may be the last thing you did in life, and our laws strictly protect the victims that take down these lowlifes.  So we had a pretty peaceful event.


----------



## jc456 (May 25, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> There he goes again. Using the tragedy of dead kids for political grandstanding.  What an asshole!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Like Beto


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

White 6 said:


> They will not take them away from everyone.  Just add some more regulation.  Don't go full-blown fascist authoritarian takeover of America scared.  It does not work well with logical argument, especially with the not easily panicked type of people.



So what more regulations do you speak of.  It seems when I ask this question, I get different answers each time.

You have to be 21 years of age to own a hand held firearm.  You cannot own a firearm if you are convicted felon.  The FBI reports that most of the guns used in crimes were purchased by a straw buyer.  So what regulations would stop something like this school shooting or the Buffalo shooting?


----------



## jc456 (May 25, 2022)

Still nothing about Derrick Brooks


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

jc456 said:


> Still nothing about Derrick Brooks



And it's going to stay that way too.


----------



## jc456 (May 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> And it's going to stay that way too.


I’m not going to stop


----------



## Slade3200 (May 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Always believe the truth. The truth will set you free.


Agreed. Problem is you don’t speak the truth. You repeat propaganda


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

Slade3200 said:


> Agreed. Problem is you don’t speak the truth. You repeat propaganda



Again, two of your very own sources agrees with me.  What more do you want?  It's not like I posted an opinion piece from Fox.


----------



## Slade3200 (May 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Again, two of your very own sources agrees with me.  What more do you want?  It's not like I posted an opinion piece from Fox.


Why would I care about who agrees with you or not?!


----------



## scruffy (May 25, 2022)

citygator said:


> You fuckers want to pass laws to protect kids’ morals “don’t  say gay” and protect kids’ feelings “anti-CRT” but don’t want to protect 2nd graders from being ripped to shreds by bullets?  Um. Ok.


LAWS won't stop that, dumbass.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 25, 2022)

Slade3200 said:


> Why would I care about who agrees with you or not?!



You don't.  That's the problem. 

You make a claim to a leftist and they say you're FOS.
You provide evidence of your claim and you say the source is biased.
You use one or more of their own sources and they still cry foul. 

At that point I have no idea WTF you're looking for.


----------



## White 6 (May 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So what more regulations do you speak of.  It seems when I ask this question, I get different answers each time.
> 
> You have to be 21 years of age to own a hand held firearm.  You cannot own a firearm if you are convicted felon.  The FBI reports that most of the guns used in crimes were purchased by a straw buyer.  So what regulations would stop something like this school shooting or the Buffalo shooting?


For weapons such as these, I would:
1.  Raise minimum age to buy, own or possess (unless renting on a controlled, supervised, regulated range) to 25.
2.  Thorough background checks, similar to NSA level background checks.
3.  Nobody, ever gets to have one on the street.
4.  No magazines over 10 rounds except as rented on a controlled supervised regulated range.
5.  No purchases greater than one at a time, only permitted in a 30 day period, with separate fees          for another. NSA level background check.
6.  Mandatory training and licensing and photo ID permit, before transfer of weapon from seller to buyer.
7. Conviction on public drunk, DUI, or drug offenses, would mean automatic, loss of all weapons      permits. If charged, all weapons confiscate until charges adjudicated.
8. No carry on city streets, EVER.  If in a vehicle, must be unloaded with ammo secured seperately.
9.  Proof of ownership of a gun safe for storage of weapon and ammunition required.
10.  Uniformity of  long gun weapons laws enforce by Federal, state and city from state to state, across the board.
11. Ban on import of semi-automatic rifles.
12. No US sales withing CONUS or possession allowed to Non-United States Citizens.
13.  Highly regulate sales of replacement parts on all Semi-automatic rifles.
14. Strengthen ghost buyer laws, and increase sentences, automatic if guilty.
That ought to help.


----------



## zaangalewa (May 26, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> ... No one buys war weapons. ...



You are totally mad !!! It makes unfortunatelly not any  sense to try to speak with US-American weapon fetishists who grew high since the 1970ies of the last century. You are aliens from an unknown part of the universe where no logos exists and lies are the daily bread.


----------



## Leo123 (May 26, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> You are totally mad !!!


I'd say the same of you.   Automatic machine guns in America cannot be purchased without a permit.   No one can afford a tank or a bomber.   Jet fighters?  No way.  Sting missiles are all sold to the Ukraine but not sold to American citizens.  Submarines cost too much to run and maintain for the ordinary American citizen.   All we have are single-shot semi automatics like they had in Old West.  Carbines were popular.  We can buy shotguns to shoot birds and other animals for food.   Hand guns are all semi-automatic (one shot per trigger pull) and are used for law abiding citizens for personal protection.   An AR-15 is a glorified .22 caliber semi automatic (one shot at a time) long rifle.    So, you are full of shit.  You are ignorant and stupid to boot.


----------



## zaangalewa (May 26, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> I'd say the same of you. ...



Then let it be to try to speak furthermore with me.  I am absolutelly not interested in all forms of guns and who owns guns for fun and private use is a criminal in my eyes. End of discussion.


----------



## Issa (May 26, 2022)

Mindful said:


> I can tell you this:
> 
> Huge black market in guns in Europe. I got that from the police themselves. If I wanted a gun today, I could get one, from certain areas in the city.
> 
> ...


Bottom line Americans shoot each other by the thousands and Europeans don't.


----------



## Issa (May 26, 2022)

Missourian said:


> Please go live there.
> 
> Be well Citizen.


What's that have to do with the topic?


----------



## Leo123 (May 26, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Then let it be to try to speak furthermore with me.  I am absolutelly not interested in all forms of guns and who owns guns for fun and private use is a criminal in my eyes. End of discussion.


So you’re a Marxist zfigured..


----------



## citygator (May 26, 2022)

scruffy said:


> LAWS won't stop that, dumbass.


Didn’t stop Texas from passing laws to: ban abortion, ban CRT, working on ban for trans in bathrooms and sports… laws don’t work so why pass them?


----------



## zaangalewa (May 26, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> So you’re a Marxist zfigured..



Oh by the way, unscrupulous propagandist of  hate: Indeed you are one of the very concrete persons of the criminal organisation NRA who is responsible for the mass-murder on US-American citizens and their children. How much money pays the criminal organisaion NRA to the victims of their deadly underground politics? Nothing? How generous!


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 26, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Oh by the way, unscrupulous propagandist of  hate: Indeed you are one of the very concrete persons of the criminal organisation NRA who is responsible for the mass-murder on US-American citizens and their children. How much money pays the criminal organisaion NRA to the victims of their deadly underground politics? Nothing? How generous!



So tell us sheep, WTF does the NRA have anything to do with the shooting, because Dementia said so?  Let's see some evidence here.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 26, 2022)

White 6 said:


> For weapons such as these, I would:
> 1.  Raise minimum age to buy, own or possess (unless renting on a controlled, supervised, regulated range) to 25.
> 2.  Thorough background checks, similar to NSA level background checks.
> 3.  Nobody, ever gets to have one on the street.
> ...



Yes, infringing on constitutional rights is always a great thing............in Cuba. 

So, as we both know, most guns used in crimes are not regulated because they are illegally purchased.  So how would anything you listed stop a bad guy from carrying out a crime with a gun? After all, your list would only affect good people wanting to own a gun.  Criminals across the country would celebrate because it would be too difficult to actually buy and keep one.  

I'm a criminal and it's illegal to carry a gun on the street, do you think I would obey such a law?  How many laws did the Texas shooter obey?  

What you are suggesting here is that nobody ever be allowed to protect themselves with a firearm either walking, driving, or any way other than inside your own house, and if you had to spend five minutes opening up your gun safe if somebody breaks in, you might as well not have any firearms at all for protection. 

Basically what you are promoting is the Communist agenda to disarm good people.  Could we do the same for people who vote too?  Get a DUI and that's it, no voting for you.


----------



## Dr Grump (May 26, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> There he goes again. Using the tragedy of dead kids for political grandstanding.  What an asshole!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nowhere near as much of an arsehole as the Texas governor, Cruz and the nimrods who run the NRA..


----------



## Dr Grump (May 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So tell us sheep, WTF does the NRA have anything to do with the shooting, because Dementia said so?  Let's see some evidence here.


Because they support the wholesale arming of America. Why? To protect people? Nope. Because of the second amendment? Well, that's what they'll tell you but that's not the answer either. Because it'll stop criminal acts and mass shootings? Obviously not because they are now at epidemic proportions in the US. Money. That's why. These fuckwits get paid a tonne of moolah by the gun manufacturers via lobby dollars. Don't you just love America where there is no moral high ground, just who's paying me the most.

What a shithole that country has become over the past 30 years. And Texas? Fuck, what a basket case, pathetic state.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 26, 2022)

Dr Grump said:


> Because they support the wholesale arming of America. Why? To protect people? Nope. Because of the second amendment? Well, that's what they'll tell you but that's not the answer either. Because it'll stop criminal acts and mass shootings? Obviously not because they are now at epidemic proportions in the US. Money. That's why. These fuckwits get paid a tonne of moolah by the gun manufacturers via lobby dollars. Don't you just love America where there is no moral high ground, just who's paying me the most.
> 
> What a shithole that country has become over the past 30 years. And Texas? Fuck, what a basket case, pathetic state.



In our country guns sell themselves.  There is no need for the NRA to be involved.  Show me one television or radio commercial by the NRA or manufacturers of guns.  You can't do it outside of hunting and gun magazines. The largest sales people of guns is the Communist party.  Every time they start their anti-gun rant, guns and ammo fly off the shelves.  

But oh, look at all the big money spent by the NRA for so called lobbying.  









						National Rifle Assn Profile: Summary
					

National Rifle Assn organization profile. Contributions in the 2022 cycle: $324,099. Lobbying in 2022: $1,590,000. Outside Spending in the 2022 cycle: $2,172,640.




					www.opensecrets.org


----------



## zaangalewa (May 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So tell us sheep, WTF does the NRA have anything to do with the shooting, because Dementia said so?  Let's see some evidence here.



The NRA is anything else than a representative of the interests of rod and gun clubs. It's a political propaganda machine fighting against the will of 80% of all US-Americans who know that the USA needs much stricter weapon laws. Since decades and year by year leads the NRA the whole USA into a growing political chaos. Also by eliminating young talented politicians.


----------



## Golfing Gator (May 26, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> There he goes again. Using the tragedy of dead kids for political grandstanding.  What an asshole!!



Isn't that what you are doing in this very post?


----------



## scruffy (May 26, 2022)

Issa said:


> Bottom line Americans shoot each other by the thousands and Europeans don't.


That's moronic.

Europeans have been shooting each other for hundreds of years, dummy.

Maybe crack a book sometime?


----------



## zaangalewa (May 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> In our country guns sell themselves. ...



What means my good old friend Kal El would need about 50 years to eliminate all this totally superflous machines in the USA. By the way: What is fascinating in machines which spit out with high speed little pieces of metal? This are machines for superidiots!


----------



## zaangalewa (May 26, 2022)

scruffy

The Japanese emoji you used is the very most used emoji on planet Earth. One reason for: Most of the US-Americans who use this emoji don't know what means "funny". They use it instead of  _"I laugh disrespectfully about you". _No wonder that you have the feeling you need guns because of your own poor behavior.


----------



## scruffy (May 26, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> scruffy
> 
> The Japanese emoji you used is very most used emoji on planet Earth. One reason for: Most of the US-Americans who use this emoji don't know what means "funny". They use it instead of  _"I laugh disrespectfully about you". _No wonder that you have the feeling you need guns because of your own poor behavior.


You're complaining about emojis?

Snowflake much?


----------



## zaangalewa (May 26, 2022)

scruffy said:


> You're complaining about emojis?
> 
> Snowflake much?



I ask myselve how an agressive idiot like you dominates with clever made instruments like a PC or Smart phone the US-American society by producing mass-idiots. What kind of deadly, speechless infection of the minds is this what you are doing?


----------



## scruffy (May 26, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> I ask myselve how an agressive idiot like you dominates with clever made instruments like a PC or Smart phone the US-American society by producing mass-idiots.


Meanwhile WE had to put down you sorry German fascists TWICE in the last century.

And you're complaining to us about weapons?

FUCK you, ungrateful dumbass leftard.

Maybe next time we'll just drop a nuke on your fascist asses, fucktard


----------



## easyt65 (May 26, 2022)

'Biden Blames.....'

Guns
White Extremists
Conservatives
Trump
Russians
Oil Companies
Hoarders
Price Gougers
Americans

Joe 'The Buck Stops Here' Biden blames everyone and everything ... except himself.


----------



## zaangalewa (May 26, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Meanwhile WE had to put down you sorry German fascists TWICE in the last century.



The USA did do this not twice and you did do nothing at all in this context except not to listen to people who warn you not to be a Nazi who calls everyone else a Nazi.



scruffy said:


> And you're complaining to us about weapons?
> 
> FUCK you, ungrateful dumbass leftard.
> 
> Maybe next time we'll just drop a nuke on your fascist asses, fucktard



Not any manners - not even in the eyes of so many murdered children. It's really unbelievable how uneducated and stupid you are, satanic friend of mass-murder in all forms of mass-murder. Poor USA. ... You sound by the way as if Putin had motivated you to fight against the Ukraine. ...


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 26, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> What means my good old friend Kal El would need about 50 years to eliminate all this totally superflous machines in the USA. By the way: What is fascinating in machines which spit out with high speed little pieces of metal? This are machines for superidiots!



These are machines that keep us safe from criminals like that nut at the school.  In fact in the United States, we use our firearms for self-defense, to stop a crime, or defend others between 1 to 4 million times a year, depending on who's estimate you adhere to.  Where you live if three guys are walking down the sidewalk the other way, decide to beat the living hell out of you, there is little you could do about it.  If the same thing happens to me here, they have to consider I may be the last person they ever assault before their family gets the body, and it's perfectly legal for me to do so.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 26, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Isn't that what you are doing in this very post?



He's not the leader of our country which is a job to bring unity among the people.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 26, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> The NRA is anything else than a representative of the interests of rod and gun clubs. It's a political propaganda machine fighting against the will of 80% of all US-Americans who know that the USA needs much stricter weapon laws. Since decades and year by year leads the NRA the whole USA into a growing political chaos. Also by eliminating young talented politicians.



Bullshit.  We have more guns than Americans.  Most are quite happy with our gun restrictions.  Those who are not have no idea what additional restrictions we could have that would stop bad things from happening,  because a criminal will always find a way to get a gun. 

The NRA is nothing more than a club that brings us gun rights people together.  It's no different than any other group of people that believe in something.  The Communists want to destroy that unity by getting rid of the NRA because they are the heart of our beliefs.  

The only thing that stops us from getting talented young politicians is the corrupt media.  Very few want to go through their lies and insults about them or their family, so the good people just stay the hell out of politics.


----------



## Golfing Gator (May 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> He's not the leader of our country which is a job to bring unity among the people.



Gotcha, so it is ok to use the tragedy of dead kids for political grandstanding as long as you are not the leader of the country!

Thanks for clearing that up.

Who was the last president that actually tried to bring unity among the people?  Reagan?  Carter?


----------



## zaangalewa (May 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> These are machines that keep us safe from criminals like that nut at the school.



By transforming your schools into high security tracts where your children learn very first of all to live in fear of school massacres.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> In fact in the United States, we use our firearms for self-defense, to stop a crime, or defend others between 1 to 4 million times a year, depending on who's estimate you adhere to.



You speak with a German. All ~250,000 policemen in Germany together shoot in average less than 100 times a year on other human beings - including warn shots. And in average less than 10 criminals - often much less - die because of this. And nearly never a policeman will be shot to death. This year unfortunatelly an agressive idiot murdered two policemen on not any reason to have to do so. A bad year. A very bad year.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Where you live if three guys are walking down the sidewalk the other way, decide to beat the living hell out of you, there is little you could do about it.



I had been violently attacked here in Germany in my long life one time from a German idiot, one time from some US-American idiots (Blacks in this case) and one time from two Russian idiots - father and son. In all of this cases they had no gun and imagine: I am still alive. And I had also one time a little fight with some German policemen because I refused to be bound with handcuffs. Finally they gave up and so they are also still alive, although they had guns.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> If the same thing happens to me here, they have to consider I may be the last person they ever assault before their family gets the body, and it's perfectly legal for me to do so.



So if some people go on the other side of the street they and their relatives have to live in fear of you. You would kill them without scruple. That's your law. Hopefully no one makes an "preemptive strike" who walks on the other side of the street.


----------



## Captain Caveman (May 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> US gun nuts you speak of use our firearms to stop a crime or for self-defense between 1 to 4 million times a year depending on who's estimate you use.  But let's take the one million figure:
> 
> Without our firearms, we would have over a million more violent crimes each year.  We have plenty as it is now.  We don't need to be inviting more.
> 
> ...


It's obvious you've not looked at any threads on here.


----------



## White 6 (May 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yes, infringing on constitutional rights is always a great thing............in Cuba.
> 
> So, as we both know, most guns used in crimes are not regulated because they are illegally purchased.  So how would anything you listed stop a bad guy from carrying out a crime with a gun? After all, your list would only affect good people wanting to own a gun.  Criminals across the country would celebrate because it would be too difficult to actually buy and keep one.
> 
> ...


No constitutional right is unlimited.  It just isn't.  You have freedom of speech, but it is against the law for you to use that freedom to shout threats of killing a public official, urging others to do so or entering into a conversation to plan such an event  The "right" is limited, depending on how you use it.  You will be arrested.  You have the freedom of the press, but a newspaper, coming into possession of government classified plans, engineering diagrams or facility security system cannot publish them, just as a freedom of the press issue.  The right is limited.  You have freedom of religion, but you cannot organize a religion where the principles and sacred rituals involve even willing human sacrifice to your god or gods.  The right is limited.  You will be arrested.
All rights carry responsibilities and yes, appropriate caveats are made and enforced for the public good.
I have the right to defend myself and my property, but if I shoot an unarmed kid in the back of the head, stealing my kid's bike from the back yard, I will go to prison.
There is nothing communist about.  It is just how it is and how it has always been.  Your rights stop when the threaten my rights or others rights and yes, the rights of society.


----------



## scruffy (May 26, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> The USA did do this not twice and you did do nothing at all in this context except not to listen to people who warn you not to be a Nazi who calls everyone else a Nazi.



I already told you dumbass, my family has been ejecting tyrants for 900 years.

My grandfather was one of the generals responsible for keeping Hitler out of Switzerland.

Don't presume to lecture me, on history or anything else.

We go back to the year 1270. You know what happened then, your people were involved. A lot of them ended up dead, because the fascist bastards tried to tell us what to do 




zaangalewa said:


> Not any manners - not even in the eyes of so many murdered children. It's really unbelievable how uneducated and stupid you are, satanic friend of mass-murder in all forms of mass-murder. Poor USA. ... You sound by the way as if Putin had motivated you to fight against the Ukraine. ...


And you dumbass shit for brains Krauts haven't learned your lesson yet, have you?

Still trying to tell me what to do 

Trying to disguise your fascist moralism with "politeness".

Hey fucktard, it's IMPOLITE to tell me what to do 

Now go crawl back under your rock, dumbass leftard. The world needs less of you.


----------



## jc456 (May 26, 2022)

Slade3200 said:


> Agreed. Problem is you don’t speak the truth. You repeat propaganda


How so? What is the propaganda?


----------



## HandleTheTruth (May 26, 2022)

BluesLegend said:


> Before AR15's the bad guys used bombs in mass killings dummy. ^^^ clueless alert!


Weapon of choice for mass murders.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (May 26, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> He could have killed and wounded many times that number if he'd just waiting till school got out and the kids were lined up to get on busses and hanging out on the lawn by ramming his truck through them.


That's Beto’s daydream.


----------



## Issa (May 26, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> The lie was yours, you claimed they don't happen in other countries, I simply proved that they do.
> 
> The worse school massacre in US history wasn't even a shooting, two angry parents blew the school up with natural gas.


Are you trying to comfort yourself? The US far the worst country in mass shooting and the whole world knows this. What are trying to achieve by mentioning Europe that hardly have any? The violent culture in the US can't be compared to anywhere else. I mean you nut cases are suggesting to arm teachers in a school, how worse can it get? Arm babies too? Dumbest group of people that ever existed.


----------



## Issa (May 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Bullshit.  If you go to a nice quiet middle-class white suburb, and make law that every household must have  firearm in it, you won't see any change in their crime statistics.  Then you go to a minority crime filled city, make law that nobody can have a firearm in their home, and their crime statistics won't change either.
> 
> Point is, the gun doesn't make people into criminals.  They are already hate filled criminals that use a gun for convenience.  But if they want to kill, they are going to kill.


worst mass shootings in the US were commited by white Americans. I don't know what you trying to prove there.
The whole world knows that America is nuts for having so much mass shootings and is doing nothing about it.


----------



## Issa (May 26, 2022)

scruffy said:


> That's moronic.
> 
> Europeans have been shooting each other for hundreds of years, dummy.
> 
> Maybe crack a book sometime?


You took the center stage and you don't even have a war. You get shot going to the market, church, concert and even your little kids get murdered in schools. Don't see that in Europe.


----------



## zaangalewa (May 26, 2022)

scruffy said:


> I already told you dumbass,



Why have US-Americasn no manners?



scruffy said:


> my family has been ejecting tyrants for 900 years.



You are a Swiss?



scruffy said:


> My grandfather was one of the generals responsible for keeping Hitler out of Switzerland.



You say you are a Swiss. But you don't speak like a Swiss. And Hitler never had any plan to attack Switzerland. Why should he? But US-Americans bombed some Swiss cities because they thought it's Germany and when German fighter aircrafts had helped Switzerland by fighting US-American bombers over Switzerland you shot the fighters down. I guess one of the last thougts of one of this pilots could had been _"Sometimes death is a funny thing"._



scruffy said:


> Don't presume to lecture me, on history or anything else.



If you are really a Swiss then you speak out a totally absurde nonsense. The house Habsburg for example came from Switzerland.



scruffy said:


> We go back to the year 1270.



August 1291. Uri, Schwyz and Unterwalden made a Bundesbrief (Union-letter) on reason to restore their old rights after the German king Rudolf 1st from the house Habsburg had died.



scruffy said:


> You know what happened then,



I don't remember in the moment what had happened directly afterwards. ... Ah yeah got it. "You" voted for the Bavarian house Wittelsbach and not for the house Habsburg in the next election for the king of Germany in 1315. When you additionally had attacked the monastery Einsiedeln the Austrian Leopold 1st (I guess he had been from the house Habsburg) started a war against "you" which he lost in the battle of Morgarten. Afterwards the imperial cities Luzern, Zürich, Glarus, Zug and Bern also liked to be independent from the house Habsburg. Together this Bund (=Union) had been called "The Eight Cities". Vienna, Paris and Milan (=Germany, France and Italy) tolerated this result.



scruffy said:


> your people were involved. A lot of them ended up dead, because the fascist bastards tried to tell us what to do



Fascists bastards in 1315 AD? Are you mad?



scruffy said:


> And you dumbass shit for brains Krauts haven't learned your lesson yet, have you?



Sorry to have to say so - but you have absolutelly nothing to do with Switzerland. Every Swiss would sink into the Earth on shame if a Swiss would speak like you with a German like me.



scruffy said:


> Still trying to tell me what to do
> 
> Trying to disguise your fascist moralism with "politeness".
> 
> ...



Can it be you are the little brother of Homer Simpson whose brain was burned out when Homer threw him into the nuclear fire where he warmed up his Swiss-Burger?


----------



## Leo123 (May 26, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Oh by the way, unscrupulous propagandist of  hate: Indeed you are one of the very concrete persons of the criminal organisation NRA who is responsible for the mass-murder on US-American citizens and their children. How much money pays the criminal organisaion NRA to the victims of their deadly underground politics? Nothing? How generous!


Looney^^^^^


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 26, 2022)

White 6 said:


> For weapons such as these, I would:
> 1.  Raise minimum age to buy, own or possess (unless renting on a controlled, supervised, regulated range) to 25.
> 2.  Thorough background checks, similar to NSA level background checks.....


How do you get around "shall not be infringed"?


----------



## BackAgain (May 26, 2022)

Nostra said:


> He used a hand gun.


Shhh. You’ll fuck up the baseless rant.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 26, 2022)

HandleTheTruth said:


> Weapon of choice for mass murders.


Handguns.
What about them?


----------



## zaangalewa (May 26, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> Looney^^^^^



Aha - you found an empty expression which I am not able to translate. I guess that's enough reason for you to wipe out all life on planet Earth. But not any reason not to waste the money or manpower of your wife or of any other of your slaves in the USA which you let murder whenever you like to let them murder.


----------



## zaangalewa (May 26, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Handguns.
> What about them?



A good test for a scrap press.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 26, 2022)

Issa said:


> worst mass shootings in the US were commited by white Americans. I don't know what you trying to prove there.
> The whole world knows that America is nuts for having so much mass shootings and is doing nothing about it.



What do you want us to do about it?  Do you think disarming law abiding citizens would stop it?  









						Inconvenient fact about mass killings: White males are 'underrepresented' while Blacks and Asians are 'overrepresented'
					

After the mass murder of 10 in a Buffalo, New York, supermarket committed by a man who posted a racist manifesto, Wesley Lowery, a CBS reporter, said: “Let’s be clear,




					thebrunswicknews.com


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 26, 2022)

Issa said:


> Are you trying to comfort yourself? The US far the worst country in mass shooting and the whole world knows this. What are trying to achieve by mentioning Europe that hardly have any? The violent culture in the US can't be compared to anywhere else. I mean you nut cases are suggesting to arm teachers in a school, how worse can it get? Arm babies too? Dumbest group of people that ever existed.



So why do you and millions like you leave their country and come here (or try to come here) to live with the dumbest people that ever existed?


----------



## White 6 (May 26, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> How do you get around "shall not be infringed"?


Like limitations on any other right in the bill of rights.  They all are not absolute, never were, and will always have circumstance where you are not allowed to exercise them totally to your liking.  Does freedom of religion allow you to sacrifice vigins, just because it is an accepted practice of your minority cult religion?  The Supreme Court has ruled weapons regulation is legal and constitutional.


----------



## Flash (May 26, 2022)

Issa said:


> You took the center stage and you don't even have a war. You get shot going to the market, church, concert and even your little kids get murdered in schools. Don't see that in Europe.


Most of America's gun crime is among Negroes in the Democrat big cities with druggies, gang bangers and street thugs.  If we ship over our Negroes then European crime would shoot up.

By the way, you are confused.  There have been mass school shootings in Europe.






						Category:School shootings in Europe - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 26, 2022)

White 6 said:


> No constitutional right is unlimited.  It just isn't.  You have freedom of speech, but it is against the law for you to use that freedom to shout threats of killing a public official, urging others to do so or entering into a conversation to plan such an event  The "right" is limited, depending on how you use it.  You will be arrested.  You have the freedom of the press, but a newspaper, coming into possession of government classified plans, engineering diagrams or facility security system cannot publish them, just as a freedom of the press issue.  The right is limited.  You have freedom of religion, but you cannot organize a religion where the principles and sacred rituals involve even willing human sacrifice to your god or gods.  The right is limited.  You will be arrested.
> All rights carry responsibilities and yes, appropriate caveats are made and enforced for the public good.
> I have the right to defend myself and my property, but if I shoot an unarmed kid in the back of the head, stealing my kid's bike from the back yard, I will go to prison.
> There is nothing communist about.  It is just how it is and how it has always been.  Your rights stop when the threaten my rights or others rights and yes, the rights of society.



How are your rights being threatened by me not having a gun safe or carrying a firearm on my person or car?  Yes rights come with limitations, but what other right has more limitations than firearms?  I have no rights when there are so many regulations on them that I have no logical way to exercise those rights.  It's like saying all voters must climb a two story ladder to get to their voting place. 

What you're talking about is not regulations on rights, it's down right taking them away.  The reason I carry a firearm is for personal protection.  Take that away and I have no right to protect myself with a firearm on the street or in my car.  It kind of defeats the purpose of having gun rights, doesn't it?  Same thing in my house.  If somebody busts down the door and I have no way to unlock my safe quick enough to retrieve that firarm, what's the point of having a right to bear arms?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 26, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> It's obvious you've not looked at any threads on here.



I've been here since the start of this topic and read every single one.


----------



## Leo123 (May 26, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Like limitations on any other right in the bill of rights.  They all are not absolute, never were, and will always have circumstance where you are not allowed to exercise them totally to your liking.  Does freedom of religion allow you to sacrifice vigins, just because it is an accepted practice of your minority cult religion?  The Supreme Court has ruled weapons regulation is legal and constitutional.


Killing human beings is against the law no matter what religion one is so, that argument is DOA.   Also, killing a person takes away their right to life.  Except, of course, if you're a baby in the womb.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 26, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Like limitations on any other right in the bill of rights.


Oh, I see.   You do not believe these things are infringements.
Ok then - demonstrate the necessity for and efficacy of those restrictions.
And then - would they be infringements of laid on the right to an abortion?


White 6 said:


> The Supreme Court has ruled weapons regulation is legal and constitutional.


This is false, as, since _Heller_, the USSC has struck every firearm regulation placed before it.
Disagree?
Cite the case, and the regulation upheld.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 26, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> By transforming your schools into high security tracts where your children learn very first of all to live in fear of school massacres.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Did I say that?  In the US you have to prove your case for self-defense.  The law reads I have the legal right to use deadly force if I believe that I (or others) are in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death.  If you injure or kill somebody without being able to show you were in that situation, you'll be going to prison for murder. 

Just because you are still alive over your multiple attacks doesn't justify disarming an entire society.  You were attacked because your attackers knew you were not armed or able to defend yourself.  If that were something they had to consider, it's likely they would have just left you alone.  There was a similar case here in New York city.  Some big black guy attacked a elderly Asian woman.  Nobody knows what his reasons were, but he knew in NYC that elderly woman was very likely not armed because NYC is basically a Communist city where just about nobody can get a permit for a gun.  

The beauty of our firearm laws is that nobody knows if you have a gun or not.  That element of surprise is what helps keep armed people safe as well as unarmed people.


----------



## scruffy (May 26, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Why have US-Americasn no manners?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What an asshole 

You fascist Germans have tried to invade Switzerland FOURTEEN TIMES, and we made you tuck your tail between your legs and run like the lily livered cowards you are, EVERY SINGLE TIME.

You fascist assholes like to look down your nose at others, just like you're looking down your nose at me right now.

You are the ORIGIN of all the wicked ideas about racial and cultural superiority, that all the leftards are complaining about.

And here you are, doing the SAME stupid shit.

For which we eventually had to bomb the hell out of you, because you didn't want to give up your perverse culture.

Well I got news for you pal. => MY <= culture is intact. We never had to be taken apart 'cause we never ALLOWED any of your fucktard ideas to take root in our culture.

I am NOT INTERESTED in your moralism, and I'm not interested in being polite, to assuage your feelings or for any other reason.

YOU are here trying to tell me how to do business, and my only response to that is going to be a big middle finger right in your eye.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 26, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Gotcha, so it is ok to use the tragedy of dead kids for political grandstanding as long as you are not the leader of the country!
> 
> Thanks for clearing that up.
> 
> Who was the last president that actually tried to bring unity among the people?  Reagan?  Carter?



George Bush did after 911.  I say he did a pretty good job, and I'm no Bush fan.  

It's not so much that Dementia didn't bring people together, it's that he used the opportunity to split people apart even more.  He highlighted one group of Americans nowhere near the shooting site as those responsible for it.  When he said "gun lobby" he meant every American who supports the 2nd Amendment.  How would you be talking today if Trump was President and made a rant about cross dressers as the problem we need to address because the shooting demonstrates these people are Fd up in the head?


----------



## Golfing Gator (May 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> George Bush did after 911. I say he did a pretty good job, and I'm no Bush fan.



True he did right after 9/11 but it did not last long


----------



## Leo123 (May 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Did I say that?  In the US you have to prove your case for self-defense.  The law reads I have the legal right to use deadly force if I believe that I (or others) are in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death.  If you injure or kill somebody without being able to show you were in that situation, you'll be going to prison for murder.
> 
> Just because you are still alive over your multiple attacks doesn't justify disarming an entire society.  You were attacked because your attackers knew you were not armed or able to defend yourself.  If that were something they had to consider, it's likely they would have just left you alone.  There was a similar case here in New York city.  Some big black guy attacked a elderly Asian woman.  Nobody knows what his reasons were, but he knew in NYC that elderly woman was very likely not armed because NYC is basically a Communist city where just about nobody can get a permit for a gun.
> 
> The beauty of our firearm laws is that nobody knows if you have a gun or not.  That element of surprise is what helps keep armed people safe as well as unarmed people.


Very true.  The threat of someone being armed is also a deterrent for any perp.


----------



## Captain Caveman (May 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I've been here since the start of this topic and read every single one.


If you had, you wouldn't have 90% of the content in your last post because it's all been covered in very recent threads. That's unless you like repetition.


----------



## Sunsettommy (May 26, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Well, you can't beat, strangle or stab 18 screaming running kids or adults to death in less than a minute.  You can do it with an AR15 platform weapon without even reloading or getting within 30 feet.



True but you are missing the point.

Meanwhile FBI Crime stats shows that Knives kills more people than Rifles (AK-47) every year.

CNS News

More People Killed by Knives Than by Rifles, Shotguns, But Handguns Used in Most Murders​
By Kharen Martinez Murcia | October 8, 2019

Excerpt:

 The 2018 homicide data from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) shows that more people were murdered with knives (1,515) and “blunt objects” such as hammers (443) than with rifles (297). The numbers also show that fewer people were killed with shotguns (235) than with knives or blunt objects.

LINK


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 26, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Well, you can't beat, strangle or stab 18 screaming running kids or adults to death in less than a minute.  You can do it with an AR15 platform weapon without even reloading or getting within 30 feet.


You can also do it with a pump-action shotgun.
In fact, every mass shooting in the US, save one, could be equally perpretrated with a pump-action shotgun.


----------



## White 6 (May 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> How are your rights being threatened by me not having a gun safe or carrying a firearm on my person or car?  Yes rights come with limitations, but what other right has more limitations than firearms?  I have no rights when there are so many regulations on them that I have no logical way to exercise those rights.  It's like saying all voters must climb a two story ladder to get to their voting place.
> 
> What you're talking about is not regulations on rights, it's down right taking them away.  The reason I carry a firearm is for personal protection.  Take that away and I have no right to protect myself with a firearm on the street or in my car.  It kind of defeats the purpose of having gun rights, doesn't it?  Same thing in my house.  If somebody busts down the door and I have no way to unlock my safe quick enough to retrieve that firarm, what's the point of having a right to bear arms?


You specifically probably not.  You don't have an irresponsible or unstable adolescent kid in your house, as I kind of doubt you would not tolerate it, I'm pretty sure.  I would hate to see you have an AR stolen and used by nut balls or criminals, though, so a gun safe is a really good idea, even for people, I have a reasonable respect for, due to many conversations.
You and I carry for the same reason(s), to protect ourselves and anybody with us and possibly (but hopefully not) to intercede if absolutely necessary and unavoidable.  I don't know about you, but I don't keep a "_spare_" in the glove compartment, certainly not after having my windows smashed twice and two Garmans stolen at a Lowes parking lot.  Funny the reaction from the head of crime stoppers after the second break in, locally the officer was on a radio giving me hell for having them in the locked car twice and attached to the windshield, when usually he makes fun of the low life criminals, but I digress.  In actuality, it does not detract from you protecting yourself with a weapon in your vehicle at all.  Mine is in my should holster, locked and loaded all the time, just not stashed under a seat or in the console.  This thread started out about AR15s, I doubt you are riding around with an AR in the back seat, when you go to Walmart or the mall.  As for my house, my 9mm is in the holster, locked and loaded, retaining strap released in the night stand on my side of the bed, and my 90 lb German shepherd moves to sleep in the hall, just outside our bedroom as the light go out.  Nobody gets on our porch without her raising hell, day or night.  Best alarm system you ever saw and her bite is even worse than her bark.  We have to order her to the kitchen (where she continues barks and stomps the floor but at least does not charge the security glass storm door) just to answer the door.


----------



## White 6 (May 26, 2022)

Sunsettommy said:


> True but you are missing the point.
> 
> Meanwhile FBI Crime stats shows that Knives kills more people than Rifles (AK-47) every year.
> 
> ...


Very few mass murders, though.


----------



## Sunsettommy (May 26, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Very few mass murders, though.



Already agreed on that.

Guns are not the problem it is the people who have changed over the decades the problem we live in a nation badly divided with a lot of organized gangs and drug culture swiring around in the background and suffer from stupid partisan politics.

Before 1993 there were ZERO school shootings anywhere, yet we have a lot of guns and many states had been allowing Gun Carry for up to 10 years.

More Gun control isn't the answer it is how people live and handle stress that needs to be addressed.


----------



## White 6 (May 26, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> You can also do it with a pump-action shotgun.
> In fact, every mass shooting in the US, save one, could be equally perpretrated with a pump-action shotgun.


Yes.  Pump action shotgun are very effective, but most only hole 5 shells, even if unplugged.  If you start shooting and stop at 5 rounds to reload, somebody will drop you like a bad habit.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 26, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Yes.  Pump action shotgun are very effective, but most only hole 5 shells, even if unplugged.  If you start shooting and stop at 5 rounds to reload, somebody will drop you like a bad habit.


Or not.    Look at the Pulse nightclub shooting -- 300 people, one shooter, no one did a thing.
If the shooter is smart, he has 8 rounds and only fires 6 before he reloads.


----------



## White 6 (May 26, 2022)

Sunsettommy said:


> Already agreed on that.
> 
> Guns are not the problem it is the people who have changed over the decades the problem we live in a nation badly divided with a lot of organized gangs and drug culture swiring around in the background and suffer from stupid partisan politics.
> 
> ...


Interesting and sounds right.  Most state did not let you open carry ARs.  ARs were not nearly as popular.  The marketing has been amazingly effect or irresponsibly horrific, depending on your viewpoint.
It does boil down to exactly what you said.  "it is the people who have changed over the decades", you correctly stated, but in this society we do poorly at effectively regulating people.  Restricting sales by increased regulation is much easier and sooner or later show will definitely show affect.


----------



## Sunsettommy (May 26, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Interesting and sounds right.  Most state did not let you open carry ARs.  ARs were not nearly as popular.  The marketing has been amazingly effect or irresponsibly horrific, depending on your viewpoint.
> It does boil down to exactly what you said.  "it is the people who have changed over the decades", you correctly stated, but in this society we do poorly at effectively regulating people.  Restricting sales by increased regulation is much easier and sooner or later show will definitely show affect.




But Criminals the main cause of murders don't observe regulations and gun laws, they do what ever they want to get what they want.

Regulating people always have been hard, better I think is to improve their outlook on life and reduce prejudice and bigotry which strongly effects peoples mental well being and stress we live under.

Remember the run on Toilet Paper in the early days of the COVID madness?


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 26, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Restricting sales by increased regulation is much easier and sooner or later show will definitely show affect.


This will only affect the law abiding.
As such, it is unnecessary and ineffective.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 26, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Interesting and sounds right.  Most state did not let you open carry ARs.  ARs were not nearly as popular.  The marketing has been amazingly effect or irresponsibly horrific, depending on your viewpoint.
> It does boil down to exactly what you said.  "it is the people who have changed over the decades", you correctly stated, but in this society we do poorly at effectively regulating people.  Restricting sales by increased regulation is much easier and sooner or later show will definitely show affect.



That's what they thought about the so-called assault weapons ban that lasted ten years.  When they went to renew it they found it didn't do anything in regards to results so they never did it.


----------



## ThunderKiss1965 (May 26, 2022)

Issa said:


> Most of the countries don't have these mass shootings, u know why ? Because they have almost no guns available for everyone to grab.


And never had a Constitutional right to own firearms. Right now I bet the Ukraine and all of those other Eastern European countries wish they had the same rights.                

“You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.”    ―    Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto​


----------



## White 6 (May 26, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Or not.    Look at the Pulse nightclub shooting -- 300 people, one shooter, no one did a thing.
> If the shooter is smart, he has 8 rounds and only fires 6 before he reloads.


Unlike TN, you can carry your concealed carry firearm into at bar or nightclub in Florida and unless you are beyond .10 blood alcohol content, you are good to go, and even that restriction does not apply to self defense.  Could this mean that gay bar patrons are unlikely to have CCW or otherwise carry?


----------



## White 6 (May 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> That's what they thought about the so-called assault weapons ban that lasted ten years.  When they went to renew it they found it didn't do anything in regards to results so they never did it.


Really?  I thought there were just enough 2nd amendment, supporter to defeat it.


----------



## ThunderKiss1965 (May 26, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Interesting and sounds right.  Most state did not let you open carry ARs.  ARs were not nearly as popular.  The marketing has been amazingly effect or irresponsibly horrific, depending on your viewpoint.
> It does boil down to exactly what you said.  "it is the people who have changed over the decades", you correctly stated, but in this society we do poorly at effectively regulating people.  Restricting sales by increased regulation is much easier and sooner or later show will definitely show affect.


We have tried this before and it didn't work.








						Gun Control: Assault Weapons Ban Has Been Tried Before And Failed | Stock News & Stock Market Analysis - IBD
					

The very ban being proposed by Democrats today was in effect for 10 years — from 1994 to 2004 — and studies show it had no effect on gun deaths.




					www.investors.com


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 26, 2022)

Sunsettommy said:


> Already agreed on that.
> 
> Guns are not the problem it is the people who have changed over the decades the problem we live in a nation badly divided with a lot of organized gangs and drug culture swiring around in the background and suffer from stupid partisan politics.
> 
> ...



Kind of hard to do at this point. When I was a kid acting up in the store your parent(s) swatted you in the ass in front of other people.  Teachers used to take a board and beat your ass with it in front of class.  If you cried from the pain, the other kids would make fun of you for the rest of the school year or longer,  When you did something wrong at home, you were grounded. 

We don't do these kinds of things anymore.  We are raising eggshells instead of human beings.  They are shielded from normal emotions like shame and disgrace.  We don't hit children any longer, we tell them they are wrong.  We don't ground kids anymore, we put them in time out.  Teachers are not allowed to lay a hand on any child today regardless what they did wrong.  What teachers did to us as kids in our local school would be nationwide news today, and probably resulting in a multi-thousand dollar lawsuit.  Bullying (which as been going on in every generation of children) is now a national discussion as if it was something new. 

So we shield our children from emotions like embarrassment, humiliation and defeat, then take God out of society at the same time, and we can't figure out why people flip out over the stupidest things enough to kill other human beings?


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 26, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Unlike TN, you can carry your concealed carry firearm into at bar or nightclub in Florida and unless you are beyond .10 blood alcohol content, you are good to go, and even that restriction does not apply to self defense.  Could this mean that gay bar patrons are unlikely to have CCW or otherwise carry?


Fact remains:  300 people did nothing.
Thus your "If you start shooting and stop at 5 rounds to reload, somebody will drop you like a bad habit" quip is nowhere near the certainty you suggest.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 26, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Really?  I thought there were just enough 2nd amendment, supporter to defeat it.


Defeat what?
Extending the 1994 AWB never came up for a vote.


----------



## bendog (May 26, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Defeat what?
> Extending the 1994 AWB never came up for a vote.


wonder why?  LOL

But really, magazine capacity or people buying "over 100 rounds" are all pretty useless.  And I know people who will go through a 100 rounds on a weekend.  Not me, but I don't see enjoyment in shooting.  

But for the gop and NRA, NOTHING is possible.  NOTHING.  And that's as much a bs position as Biden and guns


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 26, 2022)

White 6 said:


> You specifically probably not.  You don't have an irresponsible or unstable adolescent kid in your house, as I kind of doubt you would not tolerate it, I'm pretty sure.  I would hate to see you have an AR stolen and used by nut balls or criminals, though, so a gun safe is a really good idea, even for people, I have a reasonable respect for, due to many conversations.
> You and I carry for the same reason(s), to protect ourselves and anybody with us and possibly (but hopefully not) to intercede if absolutely necessary and unavoidable.  I don't know about you, but I don't keep a "_spare_" in the glove compartment, certainly not after having my windows smashed twice and two Garmans stolen at a Lowes parking lot.  Funny the reaction from the head of crime stoppers after the second break in, locally the officer was on a radio giving me hell for having them in the locked car twice and attached to the windshield, when usually he makes fun of the low life criminals, but I digress.  In actuality, it does not detract from you protecting yourself with a weapon in your vehicle at all.  Mine is in my should holster, locked and loaded all the time, just not stashed under a seat or in the console.  This thread started out about AR15s, I doubt you are riding around with an AR in the back seat, when you go to Walmart or the mall.  As for my house, my 9mm is in the holster, locked and loaded, retaining strap released in the night stand on my side of the bed, and my 90 lb German shepherd moves to sleep in the hall, just outside our bedroom as the light go out.  Nobody gets on our porch without her raising hell, day or night.  Best alarm system you ever saw and her bite is even worse than her bark.  We have to order her to the kitchen (where she continues barks and stomps the floor but at least does not charge the security glass storm door) just to answer the door.



Well I'm not about to become a pet owner because of the restrictions you would like to have against me.  My .357 revolver is in the headboard of my bed and my 9mm on the dresser less than 5 feet away.  Both are easily accessible in the event somebody does break down my door 

What you listed were regulations that would virtually disable a gun owner from reasonably using their firearm.  Not only would that not be productive, but give the criminals a better chance.  I keep my gun on my passenger seat when driving.  If I need it it's only a matter of one second for me to aim and fire such as a possible car jacking.   

All the gun regulations in the world would not have prevented this nut case from doing what he did, and that's what's at discussion here.  As one expert pointed out on the radio yesterday, we have around 200,000 schools in the United States, and most don't take proactive measures against an attack like this; it will never happen in my school.  That's the attitude that needs to be changed.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 26, 2022)

bendog said:


> But really, magazine capacity or people buying "over 100 rounds" are all pretty useless. And I know people who will go through a 100 rounds on a weekend.



Are they drinking or something?  I can go through 100 rounds in a half-hour without trying.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 26, 2022)

bendog said:


> But for the gop and NRA, NOTHING is possible.  NOTHING.  And that's as much a bs position as Biden and guns


Why should the NRA, GOA, FPC, GOP, or gun owners accept unnecssary and ineffective restrictions on the right to keep and bear arms?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 26, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> Very true.  The threat of someone being armed is also a deterrent for any perp.



Exactly.  Years ago when the CCW bill was up for debate in our state, I was in a local blog and the discussion came up.  Another blogger asked me why I would like to see our state adopt CCW laws.  I told him I was concerned about my elderly mother.  She lives alone, never had a drivers license in her life, and walks everywhere when it's close enough. 

He wrote back and asked if the CCW bill passed and became law, would my elderly mother carry a firearm?  To that I responded "no she wouldn't, but the criminal won't know that."


----------



## Sunsettommy (May 26, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Yes.  Pump action shotgun are very effective, but most only hole 5 shells, even if unplugged.  If you start shooting and stop at 5 rounds to reload, somebody will drop you like a bad habit.



You mean by a responsible carrier of a concealed gun, which leftists are commonly against?


----------



## Kosh (May 26, 2022)

So no far left cult member has offered up any laws that would have prevented this from happening!


----------



## White 6 (May 26, 2022)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> We have tried this before and it didn't work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I still think it failed to be renewed, because Republicans controlled both houses of congress in 2004.


----------



## White 6 (May 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> That's what they thought about the so-called assault weapons ban that lasted ten years.  When they went to renew it they found it didn't do anything in regards to results so they never did it.


So, you think Republicans being in charge of congress in 2004, the planned sunshine date, had nothing to do with it not being renewed and everyone was in agreement it did nothing.  I doubt that.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 26, 2022)

White 6 said:


> I still think it failed to be renewed, because Republicans controlled both houses of congress in 2004.


Correct - and kudos to them.


----------



## ThunderKiss1965 (May 26, 2022)

White 6 said:


> I still think it failed to be renewed, because Republicans controlled both houses of congress in 2004.


Regardless 10 years under the ban proved it was a failure. The only people affected by bans are law abiding citizens. Criminals by their very nature ignore laws.


----------



## bugs (May 26, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> There he goes again. Using the tragedy of dead kids for political grandstanding.  What an asshole!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yes, Old poopy pants is an Asshole..


----------



## bugs (May 26, 2022)

skye said:


> So so predictable.....


3...2...1.. Let's go after Law Abiding Gun Owners!


----------



## White 6 (May 26, 2022)

Sunsettommy said:


> You mean by a responsible carrier of a concealed gun, which leftists are commonly against?


No matter who is for or against, many, I would say a vast majority of responsible permit holders do exist and carry. Many constitutional carry people act responsibly.  Some don't.  It is never the responsibly acting people that cause there to be a demand for tighter laws on anything, including weapons.  It is the irresponsible ones, always.


----------



## laferia52 (May 26, 2022)

two_iron said:


> The stuttering fuck had to read something a 22-year old intern cobbled together in 5 minutes and then ran it thru a "dumb it down to a 4th grade level" app. The stammering shit clown had NOTHING from the heart. Only mumbling marxist talking points and shitting on the memories of murdered children.
> 
> Let's not forget this fucking spectacle.


veggie joe says guns are the problem. veggie joe is the village simpleton. he only sees the guns.


----------



## Leo123 (May 26, 2022)

White 6 said:


> No matter who is for or against, many, I would say a vast majority of responsible permit holders do exist and carry. Many constitutional carry people act responsibly.  Some don't.  It is never the responsibly acting people that cause there to be a demand for tighter laws on anything, including weapons.  It is the irresponsible ones, always.


I haven't seen any mass shooting incidents being done by permit holders.   Got a link?


----------



## White 6 (May 26, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> I haven't seen any mass shooting incidents being done by permit holders.   Got a link?


Never heard of one.  They are high on the responsible carrying people list, not the irresponsible list.


----------



## Leo123 (May 26, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Never heard of one.  They are high on the responsible carrying people list, not the irresponsible list.


OK, you said 'some don't' and I was wondering about that.


----------



## two_iron (May 26, 2022)




----------



## bugs (May 26, 2022)

two_iron said:


> View attachment 650130


Fuck Yeah!!!!


----------



## Issa (May 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> What do you want us to do about it?  Do you think disarming law abiding citizens would stop it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Disarm everyone, capital punishment for anyone who is armed. If not you'll always have mass shootings till end of times.


----------



## Issa (May 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So why do you and millions like you leave their country and come here (or try to come here) to live with the dumbest people that ever existed?


Easiest place to make money. Remember is God's land just because you moved thr posts doesn't mean is your turf.


Ray From Cleveland said:


> So why do you and millions like you leave their country and come here (or try to come here) to live with the dumbest people that ever existed?


Easiest place to make money. Isn't God's land? It is thr same reason you or your parents came here. But many of us have a plan B you probably don't.


----------



## Issa (May 26, 2022)

Flash said:


> Most of America's gun crime is among Negroes in the Democrat big cities with druggies, gang bangers and street thugs.  If we ship over our Negroes then European crime would shoot up.
> 
> By the way, you are confused.  There have been mass school shootings in Europe.
> 
> ...


U dumb and also racist, hate to be you.


----------



## BS Filter (May 26, 2022)

Someone should really give those guns a mental evaluation.


----------



## Leo123 (May 26, 2022)

Issa said:


> Disarm everyone, capital punishment for anyone who is armed. If not you'll always have mass shootings till end of times.


You promote tyrannical rule:

History is full of examples of governments disarming their citizens with the promise that they will be protected by the state only to be brutally betrayed. What follows is a litany of blood that has not been taught in American high schools in nearly one hundred years.

1911: Turkey; citizens disarmed – 1.5 million Armenians were slaughtered
1929: Russia; citizens disarmed – 20 million Russians murdered
1935: China; citizens disarmed – 20 million Chinese killed
1938: Germany; citizens disarmed – 6 million Jews murdered
1956: Cambodia; citizens disarmed – 1 million “intellectuals” killed
1964: Guatemala; citizens disarmed – 100,000 Mayan Indians massacred
1970: Uganda; citizens disarmed – 300,000 Christians put to death
When A Population Is Disarmed: A Brief History Of Tyranny :: Firearms Owners Against Crime


----------



## Issa (May 26, 2022)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> And never had a Constitutional right to own firearms. Right now I bet the Ukraine and all of those other Eastern European countries wish they had the same rights.
> 
> “You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.”    ―    Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto​


Pohahhaha sad excuse. Armed Ukrainians cant do jackshit against an army. Iraqis, Serbian, chechens, Afghanis they were all armed and thry got stomped on.


----------



## the other mike (May 26, 2022)

He posted on Facebook that he killed his grandmother 15 minutes before he got to the school.

NSA, Secret Service, CIA, DHS....... someone is always monitoring Facebook.

 Which means our government let this shooting happen.


----------



## White 6 (May 26, 2022)

Issa said:


> Disarm everyone, capital punishment for anyone who is armed. If not you'll always have mass shootings till end of times.


Disagree.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 26, 2022)

Issa said:


> Easiest place to make money. Isn't God's land? It is thr same reason you or your parents came here. But many of us have a plan B you probably don't.



That's correct, we don't, and do you know why?  Because there is only one United States of America.  Once we allow you to make us into one of those other wonderful places you tell us about, there will be no other place to go when it ends up being a shithole (as Trump supposedly said) like where you came from.

Yes, it's the best place to make money, created by this society you call dumb people.  So tell us, how does it feel to rely on those dumb people in order for you to make money?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 26, 2022)

Issa said:


> Disarm everyone, capital punishment for anyone who is armed. If not you'll always have mass shootings till end of times.



Typical commie.  Kill anybody with a gun instead of those who use a gun to kill other people.


----------



## Leo123 (May 26, 2022)

the other mike said:


> He posted on Facebook that he killed his grandmother 15 minutes before he got to the school.
> 
> NSA, Secret Service, CIA, DHS....... someone is always monitoring Facebook.
> 
> Which means our government let this shooting happen.


No, he sent private messages via Facebook.  Facebook took them down after the incident.  Seems to me Facebook could have intercepted them but, there's probably millions of those on a daily basis.  Facebook however, does seem to rush take down what they consider to be politically incorrect stuff.  They have more leeway than the government in cases like this which involves the 1st amendment.


----------



## the other mike (May 26, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> No, he sent private messages via Facebook.  Facebook took them down after the incident.  Seems to me Facebook could have intercepted them but, there's probably millions of those on a daily basis.  Facebook however, does seem to rush take down what they consider to be politically incorrect stuff.  They have more leeway than the government in cases like this which involves the 1st amendment.


They monitor Messenger too .  

You never heard of Edward Snowden ?


----------



## Flash (May 26, 2022)

Issa said:


> U dumb and also racist, hate to be you.


The racist are the goddamn Negroes that are committing so many gun crimes in this country.  They are killing each other.  Sometimes as many as 60 a wekend being shot in Democrat controlled shitholes like Chicago.


----------



## Leo123 (May 26, 2022)

the other mike said:


> They monitor Messenger too genius.
> 
> You never heard of Edward Snowden ?


The poster I was replying to said he posted on Facebook not private messages on Messenger.   'genius'....


----------



## the other mike (May 26, 2022)

Flash said:


> The racist are the goddamn Negroes that are committing so many gun crimes in this country.  They are killing each other.  Sometimes as many as 60 a wekend being shot in Democrat controlled shitholes like Chicago.


Did you know that 80% of gun deaths in America are suicides by handguns ?

I heard it on the radio this morning


----------



## Leo123 (May 26, 2022)

the other mike said:


> Did you know that 80% of gun deaths in America are suicides by handguns ?
> 
> I heard it on the radio this morning


So?  That has nothing to do with the subject at hand.


----------



## ConserveGuy (May 26, 2022)

Who wants to bet this punk ass shooter was one of those young and dumb beto supporters? Notice how MSM does not mention what his interests were.


----------



## the other mike (May 26, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> So?  That has nothing to do with the subject at hand.


Neither does my penis but I'll talk about it if I want to.. 

Maybe I'll be like Obama and talk about George Floyd


----------



## the other mike (May 26, 2022)

ConserveGuy said:


> Who wants to bet this punk ass shooter was one of those young and dumb beto supporters? Notice how MSM does not mention what his interests were.


I think it's CIA mind-control with specially programmed video games.


----------



## Flash (May 26, 2022)

the other mike said:


> Did you know that 80% of gun deaths in America are suicides by handguns ?
> 
> I heard it on the radio this morning


Do you know that most of the gun crime in this country takes place in the Democrat controlled big city shitholes with stringent gun control laws by Black and Brown druggies, gang bangers and street thugs?


----------



## bugs (May 26, 2022)

Flash said:


> The racist are the goddamn Negroes that are committing so many gun crimes in this country.  They are killing each other.  Sometimes as many as 60 a wekend being shot in Democrat controlled shitholes like Chicago.


LOL.. Dude you Can't SAY That!
it's the TRUTH!


----------



## ThunderKiss1965 (May 26, 2022)

Issa said:


> Pohahhaha sad excuse. Armed Ukrainians cant do jackshit against an army. Iraqis, Serbian, chechens, Afghanis they were all armed and thry got stomped on.


It's called asymmetric warfare and both the US and Soviet Union didn't fare so well against the Afghani's


----------



## CowboyTed (May 26, 2022)

DGS49 said:


> Same-o same-o...We need a LAW!  And yet, none of these Lefties ever outlines a [Constitutional]  LAW what would have made a fucking bit of difference.
> 
> They must think "we" are immeasurably stupid.


Here is a law...

Mandatory public liability insureance on Guns to the scale of actual damage...

The Texas shooting killed 21 people... let's say 3 million in damages per death and a million per injury... there was 51 injuries...

So lets make it about $100m in damages...

So if you want to have an AR-15 you need to have insurance to cover at least half that.. $50m, no caps...

when you buy a gun you need to show insurance to cover the firearm you are buying... police can ask you to show your insurance.

You could have a lower insurance limit (about $5m) on a handgun...

Simple... This is about cost of ownership... 

NRA is one of the largest sellers of public liability insurance on firearms in the country so they will do well.









						Personal Firearm Liability Insurance | Lockton Affinity Outdoor
					

Personal Firearm Liability Insurance from Lockton Affinity Outdoor protects against hunting accidents, accidental discharge and self-defense incidents.




					locktonaffinityoutdoor.com
				




No violation of 2nd Amendment, it is not like the Government pays for people's guns today... This is a simple cost of ownership...

The insurance companies then would offer large discounts for people who get

Background checked
Training
Proper Gun Safe
Home use only (Not Conceal and Carry)


----------



## ConserveGuy (May 26, 2022)

the other mike said:


> I think it's CIA mind-control with specially programmed video games.



We need to know what he was into.


----------



## CowboyTed (May 26, 2022)

ConserveGuy said:


> We need to know what he was into.


Small problem with the video games theory...

These games are worldwide... Japan and Europe is especially into them and they have really low gun homicide rates...


----------



## ConserveGuy (May 26, 2022)

CowboyTed said:


> Small problem with the video games theory...
> 
> These games are worldwide... Japan and Europe is especially into them and they have really low gun homicide rates...


I think it's politics rather than video games. Especially when democrats try to say guns are the problem.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 26, 2022)

CowboyTed said:


> Here is a law...
> 
> Mandatory public liability insureance on Guns to the scale of actual damage...
> 
> ...



And while we're at it, let's bring back poll taxes since it's okay to be forced to spend money to exercise a constitutional right.  I'm all for it.


----------



## Issa (May 27, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> That's correct, we don't, and do you know why?  Because there is only one United States of America.  Once we allow you to make us into one of those other wonderful places you tell us about, there will be no other place to go when it ends up being a shithole (as Trump supposedly said) like where you came from.
> 
> Yes, it's the best place to make money, created by this society you call dumb people.  So tell us, how does it feel to rely on those dumb people in order for you to make money?


Never said all Americans are dumb. But half are beyond help and much more.

Think of the US as NYC everyone wants to go there to make money but everyone hates it (traffic, crime, pollution....) the world is full of amazing places and for you to think that life is only possible within the US is dumb.

I have lived in a third world country and you would never experience the warmth of a community liked I've experienced.

When some passed away no one went to work or school, everyone helped prep for the funeral. You need a ride at 2 am just knock on your neighbours door. You are a single parent who needs someone to watch your kid, neighbours will fight over thr kid to watch him till you come back. Someone tried to harass a girl he gets a besting. Oh and kids played dafely outside without supervision.


----------



## Issa (May 27, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Typical commie.  Kill anybody with a gun instead of those who use a gun to kill other people.


I actual align more right than left. I'm just not a sheep like most of you.


----------



## zaangalewa (May 27, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Did I say that?  In the US you have to prove your case for self-defense. ...



I have nothing to prove. I will never visit the USA except I will have to be a blues brother in a mission from god.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> The law reads I have the legal right to use deadly force if I believe that I (or others) are in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death.
> If you injure or kill somebody without being able to show you were in that situation, you'll be going to prison for murder.
> 
> Just because you are still alive over your multiple attacks doesn't justify disarming an entire society.  You were attacked because your attackers knew you were not armed or able to defend yourself.  If that were something they had to consider, it's likely they would have just left you alone.  There was a similar case here in New York city.  Some big black guy attacked a elderly Asian woman.  Nobody knows what his reasons were, but he knew in NYC that elderly woman was very likely not armed because NYC is basically a Communist city where just about nobody can get a permit for a gun.
> ...



I don't take serios abstrahotism and professional lies. God gives no one any right to be a deadly force for anyone else and what you say fits also not with real experiences. You don't like to see that the USA is in a very disastrous situation because of the curse of masses of self fulfilling war weapons which poison your brains and kill your children.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 27, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> Our school already has very secured entryways. Because of that in almost all cases you would be paying people to carry a gun around school to do....really nothing. In every school. Year after year after year after year.
> 
> In no way am I minimizing the tragedy in Texas. It makes me sick. But this is shooting a cannon at a mosquito (in size, not in lethality). What we need rather than armed security is people in every building who are less likely to cater everything to DANGEROUS EVIL PEOPLE and more likely to report them as threats to society.
> 
> Bring back mental institutions


The stipend afforded to armed staff under our two programs barely covers the cost of lessons and training, less than 1,000.00 per year in most schools per staff member.

We need a change in law at the constitutional level to make it easier to lockup people with dangerous psychological/emotional conditions or having a nut house in every town wouldn't help because we would still be unable to get them off of the streets.

Even with the laws as they are now police and courts refuse to take the most basic steps necessary to render these people ineligible to legally purchase or possess firearms in the fist place.

Until we fully enforce existing laws already on the books no new legislation should even be considered and the first new legislation should be legislation to get these people off of the streets at least into some sort of supervised living arrangement if not full time lock down facilities.

Virtually none of the school shootings or mass shootings was the result of an otherwise sane person suddenly snapping, in every case when we look deep enough we find that there were at least months or years of glaring warning signs that were utterly ignored or even when police got involved nothing was done.

The Parkland shooter had 39 occasions in which he was investigated for acts or threats of violence at school, at home, and at friends homes prior to the day he shot the place to hell but in all of those interactions with police he was never locked up and never adjudicated as mentally unfit by a judge which would have rendered him ineligible much less would have locked him up for treatment.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 27, 2022)

forkup said:


> If someone comes up with the argument that criminals will always find guns, I will argue that this person first legally bought the guns and only then used it to commit a crime. Thereby demonstrating the argument invalid in this case. And further referring to the fact that other countries clearly have crime and criminals but very few of these kinds of shootings. That's what I meant.


Access to firearms is not a determining factor in whether or not you commit an act of mass slaughter, your mental state is.

There are no other countries with our unique demography, geography or social issues to compare us with so such comparisons are worthless.

The shooter in this case could have easily killed as many or more people by waiting until the playground was full and thence running them down with his truck.

Guns are not the problem, the problem is the pervasive sickness infecting our society that leads young people down the path of committing such crimes.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 27, 2022)

Slade3200 said:


> Because they would prefer to see less guns on the streets and they’d like to make it harder for criminals and future criminals to gain access to guns


How about just fully enforcing existing laws including locking these nuts up before they commit such acts?


----------



## SmokeALib (May 27, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Raising the age to buy his weapons to 21, same as hand guns would have at least put it off for 3 years.


What?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 27, 2022)

SmokeALib said:


> What?


Failed logic.  Criminals bent on committing a crime are rarely deterred by gun laws.

If someone is intent upon committing such a crime they'll obtain the weapons necessary by any means necessary.

The Sand Hook Shooter murdered his own mother to get access to the guns he used that day.


----------



## Slade3200 (May 27, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> How about just fully enforcing existing laws including locking these nuts up before they commit such acts?


Sure, no reason to close the discussions on how to improve as well


----------



## White 6 (May 27, 2022)

SmokeALib said:


> What?


Just saying if he didn't buy the weapon(s) until he was 18, to be legal, this shooting might not have happened for 3 more years if at all, as there is some more maturity at 21 than 18, anyway.


----------



## SmokeALib (May 27, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Just saying if he didn't buy the weapon(s) until he was 18, to be legal, this shooting might not have happened for 3 more years if at all, as there is some more maturity at 21 than 18, anyway.


I don't think criminals care much about legality.


----------



## White 6 (May 27, 2022)

SmokeALib said:


> I don't think criminals care much about legality.


Was he a criminal before he shot his grandmother earlier in the day?


----------



## CowboyTed (May 27, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> And while we're at it, let's bring back poll taxes since it's okay to be forced to spend money to exercise a constitutional right.  I'm all for it.


There is no tax there as such...

Own a gun, need to have insurance like any responsible adult...

If you have a few million in the bank you could use that, but that would be a special case...

Why do you want to encourage irresponsible ownership of guns?


----------



## CowboyTed (May 27, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> The stipend afforded to armed staff under our two programs barely covers the cost of lessons and training, less than 1,000.00 per year in most schools per staff member.
> 
> We need a change in law at the constitutional level to make it easier to lockup people with dangerous psychological/emotional conditions or having a nut house in every town wouldn't help because we would still be unable to get them off of the streets.
> 
> ...


Universal background checks and strengthen them...

This is what Democrats are asking for...

ATF to computerise there records so if someone is declared dangerous there guns could be stored until they get help and are back to normal again...

Again this is what Democrats are asking for...


----------



## Mac1958 (May 27, 2022)

It takes somebody like Jimmy Kimmell to get it right:

*Some people think this is about guns.  Other people think it's about mental health.  It's both.*

Obviously.  But the tribes can't and won't admit that.  Political advantage is far more important than this slaughter.


----------



## CowboyTed (May 27, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Just saying if he didn't buy the weapon(s) until he was 18, to be legal, this shooting might not have happened for 3 more years if at all, as there is some more maturity at 21 than 18, anyway.


Agreed... There is a good few of these mass shooters are adolescent adults who might be still struggling with growing up...

21 you have a lot more perspective... What seems like the world at 16 or immature 18, is insignificant by 21...

Not perfect, won't stop everything but it is a start..


----------



## Blues Man (May 27, 2022)

CowboyTed said:


> There is no tax there as such...
> 
> Own a gun, need to have insurance like any responsible adult...
> 
> ...


It is unconstitutional to require a person pay to exercise any rights.


----------



## Blues Man (May 27, 2022)

CowboyTed said:


> Agreed... There is a good few of these mass shooters are adolescent adults who might be still struggling with growing up...
> 
> 21 you have a lot more perspective... What seems like the world at 16 or immature 18, is insignificant by 21...
> 
> Not perfect, won't stop everything but it is a start..


That's fine but then the age of majority needs to be moved up for everything.

No voting before 21
No military service before 21
No entering contracts before 21

etc


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 27, 2022)

CowboyTed said:


> Universal background checks and strengthen them...
> 
> This is what Democrats are asking for...
> 
> ...


That isn't even the beginning of what dem's are demanding.

What they are demanding up front is a new AWB.

Enahnced background checks?  What does that even look like?

A database of all gun owners? No fucking way period.  It is illegal for the feds to create any such database of gun owners.

"Red Flag Laws" as proposed strip you of your rights without any due process, no chance in hell.

How about just fully enforcing the laws already on the books and long sentences for anyone using or possessing a firearm while committing a violent crime?

Fully enforce the existing laws for a decade and lock up the violent criminals for max terms and then come back with some data and we'll talk about what might still be needed.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 27, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> That's fine but then the age of majority needs to be moved up for everything.
> 
> No voting before 21
> No military service before 21
> ...


Can't go with you on military service.  Being able to go in straight out of HS is what keeps a hell of a lot of kids from ending up dead or in jail.

No draft before 21 I could agree with.


----------



## CowboyTed (May 27, 2022)

Mac1958 said:


> It takes somebody like Jimmy Kimmell to get it right:
> 
> *Some people think this is about guns.  Other people think it's about mental health.  It's both.*
> 
> Obviously.  But the tribes can't and won't admit that.  Political advantage is far more important than this slaughter.


It is both... 

But other countries have the mental health problems too... But they don't have the deaths...

As a side note:
Actually US has generally lhas a slightly ower suicide attempts than Western Europe... US use guns in suicides way more than in Europe. Guns are easier way to kill yourself successfully than other methods (people who are committing suicide are usually not mentally sound). The up shot is US actually has higher same sucide rate as Western Europe for that reason..


----------



## Blues Man (May 27, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Can't go with you on military service.  Being able to go in straight out of HS is what keeps a hell of a lot of kids from ending up dead or in jail.
> 
> No draft before 21 I could agree with.


Then the parents can sign for the 18 year old.


----------



## Mac1958 (May 27, 2022)

CowboyTed said:


> It is both...
> 
> But other countries have the mental health problems too... But they don't have the deaths...
> 
> ...


We have a "popular culture" that is awash in violence and crime and brutality and gore and blood and death, from video games to movies to music to television.  Absolutely awash in it.  Our young people are DESENSITIZED to it.  Clearly.  CLEARLY.

We also have more guns than people.  Guns last a long time.  And the criminals aren't giving them up.  They'll sell them, though.

The size and intensity of that combination is absolutely unique in the world.  We either take this seriously across the board, or just give up.  This is an "all of the above" situation, and downgrading either end won't help us address the issue.  I know America can no longer solve big problems, but if we're going to try, we have to walk and chew gum at the same time.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 27, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Then the parents can sign for the 18 year old.


Sometimes the kid needs to get away from the parents for their own good and they would not be likely to sing for them.


----------



## Blues Man (May 27, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Sometimes the kid needs to get away from the parents for their own good and they would not be likely to sing for them.


I don't think it's such a big problem.

Of course we could always just lower the age of majority to 18 for everything 

Whatever the number we need to pick one and make it universal


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 27, 2022)

Issa said:


> Disarm everyone, capital punishment for anyone who is armed. If not you'll always have mass shootings till end of times.


How do you get past "shall not be infringed"?


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 27, 2022)

CowboyTed said:


> Here is a law...
> Mandatory public liability insureance on Guns to the scale of actual damage...


Insurance does not pay for criminals acts.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 27, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Just saying if he didn't buy the weapon(s) until he was 18, to be legal, this shooting might not have happened for 3 more years if at all, as there is some more maturity at 21 than 18, anyway.


Why do you think he could not have bought one on the secondary market...  in Texas?
And then, he was unopposed for over an hour - he could have killed all those people with a Brown Bess.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 27, 2022)

CowboyTed said:


> Universal background checks and strengthen them...
> This is what Democrats are asking for...


Universal background checks are useless w/o universal registration.
That's what Democrats are pushing for.
And no one wonders why.


----------



## White 6 (May 27, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Why do you think he could not have bought one on the secondary market...  in Texas?
> And then, he was unopposed for over an hour - he could have killed all those people with a Brown Bess.


Best info avail at the moment says that is not the case.  So what could have happened or could happen in the future, does not apply to this case.
Well aware you can buy from individuals, get one as a gift from somebody, or actually use a straw buyer purposely and illegally.  Just didn't happen this time.  Most people actually follow rules more times than not.  This guy had no criminal record we are aware of, until he shot grandma.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 27, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Best info avail at the moment says that is not the case.


What info?  Have a cite?  


White 6 said:


> Well aware you can buy from individuals, get one as a gift from somebody, or actually use a straw buyer purposely and illegally.  Just didn't happen this time.  Most people actually follow rules more times than not.


And thus, your claim:
_Just saying if he didn't buy the weapon(s) until he was 18, to be legal, this shooting might not have happened..._
...rendered meaningless.
So, what could have happened or could happen in the future, does not apply to this case.


----------



## zaangalewa (May 27, 2022)

scruffy said:


> What an asshole
> 
> You fascist Germans have tried to invade Switzerland FOURTEEN TIMES,



What a nonsense.



scruffy said:


> and we made you tuck your tail between your legs and run like the lily livered cowards you are, EVERY SINGLE TIME.
> 
> You fascist assholes like to look down your nose at others, just like you're looking down your nose at me right now.
> 
> ...



Do you have any idea what you try to speak about? You are the reason for mass-murder on US-American citizens and their children. Not so the Nazis from 1933 -1945 in Germany.



scruffy said:


> For which we eventually had to bomb the hell out of you, because you didn't want to give up your perverse culture.



What you say to everyone of every culture, civilisation, nation and religion - including all peopel of the USA which do not agree with you, anti-Swiss, who seems not to have a big idea about Switzerland and the mentality of the people of the regions and countries in and around the Alps.



scruffy said:


> Well I got news for you pal. => MY <= culture is intact.



What is your culture? Brutal aggressivity and a thoughtless nonsense speech?



scruffy said:


> We never had to be taken apart 'cause we never ALLOWED any of your fucktard ideas to take root in our culture.
> 
> I am NOT INTERESTED in your moralism, and I'm not interested in being polite, to assuage your feelings or for any other reason.
> 
> YOU are here trying to tell me how to do business, and my only response to that is going to be a big middle finger right in your eye.



Very short: Let it be to give every psychopath all chances to murder innocent US-American children in masses with war weapons whenever a psychopath likes to do so. By the way a German sentence in this context: Who ignores history has to repeat it! How often did your nation repeat this and how often did you change nothing? When will this absurdity end?


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (May 27, 2022)

HandleTheTruth said:


> You gun huggers are sure a funny group.


You hoplophobes have the irrational fear.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (May 27, 2022)

CowboyTed said:


> Own a gun, need to have insurance like any responsible adult...


That will not cover criminal acts, so it's useless. 

Maybe you should get insurance for being irrational.


----------



## Doc7505 (May 27, 2022)

Independentthinker said:


> Yup. The facts haven't even come out yet and Biden is already clamoring for gun control legislation that may have had no effect. In just about every mass shooting there is, the left cannot point to one "common sense" gun control law that would have prevented the shooting.


​


----------



## zaangalewa (May 27, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Did I say that?  In the US you have to prove your case for self-defense.  The law reads I have the legal right to use deadly force if I believe that I (or others) are in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death.  If you injure or kill somebody without being able to show you were in that situation, you'll be going to prison for murder.
> 
> Just because you are still alive over your multiple attacks doesn't justify disarming an entire society.  You were attacked because your attackers knew you were not armed or able to defend yourself.



No.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> If that were something they had to consider, it's likely they would have just left you alone.  There was a similar case here in New York city.  Some big black guy attacked a elderly Asian woman.  Nobody knows what his reasons were, but he knew in NYC that elderly woman was very likely not armed because NYC is basically a Communist city where just about nobody can get a permit for a gun.
> 
> The beauty of our firearm laws



 You have weapon laws? You sell war weapons to teens with an unstable psychological structure during a brain reconstruction phase. Did anyone try to find out whether this boy had been a drug addict or alcoholics?



Ray From Cleveland said:


> is that nobody knows if you have a gun or not.  That element of surprise is what helps keep armed people safe as well as unarmed people.



You speak an absurde abstrahotic bullshit which fits not with any real experience. You build houses on a sand which is able to explode and say this is a wonderful safe place.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 27, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> You have weapon laws? You sell war weapons to teens with an unstable psychological structure during a brain reconstruction phase. Did anyone try to find out whether this boy had been a drug addict or alcoholics?



It wouldn't matter if he was.  Our Constitutional rights are not based on our recreational activities.  They can be taken away, but not by the opinion of somebody.  It would have to be taken away by a judge.  

Yes we have gun laws, but not strong enough penalties for criminals that use guns.  Anytime we have a problem involving a gun, the Communists want to disarm the law abiding citizens instead of making things harder on the criminals, which makes as much sense as taking all the disposable lighters out of a city instead of going after the arsonist. Police in Chicago have complained about arresting people illegally carrying a firearm and seeing them back out on the street the next day.  Democrats are for criminals, but we don't have an intelligent enough electorate to understand that.  They keep voting for these very same people every election.  



zaangalewa said:


> You speak an absurde abstrahotic bullshit which fits not with any real experience.



Sure I have evidence.  Most occupied home break ins usually happen to our elderly or disabled who are likely not armed to protect themselves.  Outside of that criminals make sure their intended target is not occupied because they don't know if the home owner is armed or not.  You break into my home, I start painting walls with your blood and it's all perfectly legal.  The criminals are well aware of that factor. 

Even more evidence is most of these screwballs who plan a mass murder do so where they know people are not armed.  They avoid places where there is armed security or no restrictions on armed citizens.  This is why our schools are prime targets.  Nobody has a gun in many of those schools.  The mass shooting before that, the same thing.  It happened in New York where it's difficult to get a license to carry and if you do have to use a firearm for self-defense or to save another person, you can still be charged with a crime or at the very least, civil suits for liability.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 27, 2022)

Mac1958 said:


> We have a "popular culture" that is awash in violence and crime and brutality and gore and blood and death, from video games to movies to music to television. Absolutely awash in it. Our young people are DESENSITIZED to it. Clearly. CLEARLY.



There are no decent shows to watch on television as far as I'm concerned, so when I do watch television, I look for the old shows that I never watched when they aired while I was a kid. 

I see more violence in those shows back then than today.  I'm recording some of the old Mannix series.  Every episode there are several fist fights, gunfire and usually several deaths each episode.  This series ran back in the late 60s to the later 70's.  We never had school shootings or any mass shootings for that matter.  Our entertainment was the Three Stooges where they would hit each other in the head with hammers, with saws, constantly slapping each other, poking each others eyes.  It was almost non-stop violence from beginning to end.  

So what was the differences between back then compared to today?  For one people were much more religious.  You went to church on Sunday's and they were packed.  Many times you had to stand in the back of the church to attend.  More people believed in God and his wrath if you were not a good person.  There was another life you were working on earth for that will last your eternity. 

Secondly is the two-parent household.  Nearly every household with children had a mother and father outside of those where one fell to illness and death and those kids who lost a father in war.  Outside of that you didn't see single mothers around until the leftist push of single-parent homes in the mid 70s.  

And yes, people had guns back then too.  But we fail to look at the obvious because at this point it would be too hard if not impossible to change.  Every time surveys are done, they show our country being less and less religious, more single mothers, more atheists and non-believers in God.


----------



## ColonelAngus (May 27, 2022)

The cult will never stop until they have full confiscation.

They show it in every thing they do about every issue.

No one should budge 1 inch on 2A rights. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if the cult radicalized this POS. They are so happy this tragedy happened for them to politicize.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 27, 2022)

CowboyTed said:


> There is no tax there as such...
> 
> Own a gun, need to have insurance like any responsible adult...
> 
> ...



Let's use the subject at hand:  You have this kid that obviously had no criminal record as an adult thus allowing him the ability to buy a firearm.  He has to get insurance.  His plans are to kill as many innocent children as he can, could care less about grieving parents, what it would do to his community, and likely cost him his life.  Do you really think having to carry insurance would have stopped him?  How about that other kid in Buffalo? 

But they had to buy insurance in order to get the gun.  Now the families of these victims file claims into the millions.  The insurance company (as insurance companies always do) need to reclaim their losses so they need to increase their premiums on everybody else.  So why should these tragedies always fall at the disadvantage to the law abiding citizens? 

Tell me the difference between a poll tax and having to pay for insurance.  If you're paying to exercise a constitutional right, what's the difference?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 27, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Just saying if he didn't buy the weapon(s) until he was 18, to be legal, this shooting might not have happened for 3 more years if at all, as there is some more maturity at 21 than 18, anyway.



If you are a nut case you are a nut case until the day you die, even with some professional mental health treatment.


----------



## Leo123 (May 27, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Not really, Fentanyl powder can kill you just being blown off of a table or touched without gloves.


Who made the fentanyl?  Who smuggled it across our border.  Who sold the fentanyl?   Who carelessly left the fentanyl where it could be blown or touched?   All required human interaction.  That being said, if what you say is true (and it is) Fentanyl is much more lethal than a gun any day.  Maybe those who want to restrict guns should concentrate on Fentanyl instead of scoring political points.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 27, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> I have nothing to prove. I will never visit the USA except I will have to be a blues brother in a mission from god.



Good, because we don't want you here.  I was speaking about what happens with us and this country, not if you ever come visit us sometime. 



zaangalewa said:


> I don't take serios abstrahotism and professional lies. God gives no one any right to be a deadly force for anyone else and what you say fits also not with real experiences. You don't like to see that the USA is in a very disastrous situation because of the curse of masses of self fulfilling war weapons which poison your brains and kill your children.



Yes, God does give people the right to use deadly force against their attackers.  What kind of world would we have if we adhered to what "you" believe God wants? 

And your statement says it all.  You actually believe that guns poison our brains.  Guns can't do that.  They are inanimate objects.  They have no more control over your mental state than how hungry you may be.  As the old saying goes, guns don't kill people--people kill people.  Guns are merely the tool they use to do so.  Blaming the guns for murders is like blaming the cars for drunks that kill other motorists on the road.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 27, 2022)

Issa said:


> Never said all Americans are dumb. But half are beyond help and much more.
> 
> Think of the US as NYC everyone wants to go there to make money but everyone hates it (traffic, crime, pollution....) the world is full of amazing places and for you to think that life is only possible within the US is dumb.
> 
> ...



And yet you left all that for money.


----------



## White 6 (May 27, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> If you are a nut case you are a nut case until the day you die, even with some professional mental health treatment.


I understand.  Not much on the psychiatric profession, eh?  This  guy could have been just an reclaimable twist, as I am not saying they do not exist.  At that age, and not knowing what had already been tried, and not from the Psychiatric profession, it is hard to say, at the age he was. 
They say the brain is still developing at that age, possibly to 25 and older.  Young people take things harder, and do not deal with frustration as well or handle their emotions as well as older people.  We do, hold them responsible and have to.  He is said to have a history going back into earlier of not dealing with his frustration, fights and other things.  He was definitely disturbed beyond his ability to deal with it, at that time and something snapped.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 27, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> Who made the fentanyl?  Who smuggled it across our border.  Who sold the fentanyl?   Who carelessly left the fentanyl where it could be blown or touched?   All required human interaction.  That being said, if what you say is true (and it is) Fentanyl is much more lethal than a gun any day.  Maybe those who want to restrict guns should concentrate on Fentanyl instead of scoring political points.


It takes people to manufacture and sell firearms too but they won't jump up off the table to kill anyone close enough to breathe a fine light powder drifting on the breeze.

Get serious about the drug war and fight it like a real war and we can save 100,000 lives a year.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 27, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> God gives no one any right to be a deadly force for anyone else and what you say fits also not with real experiences.


Actually he does.



> Luke 11:21 “When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own mansion, his property is safe.”
> 
> Luke 22:35-37 “Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you out to preach the Good News and you did not have money, a traveler’s bag, or an extra pair of sandals, did you need anything?” “No,” they replied. “But now,” he said, “take your money and a traveler’s bag. And if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one! For the time has come for this prophecy about me to be fulfilled: ‘He was counted among the rebels. Yes, everything written about me by the prophets will come true.”
> 
> ...



If all Christians and Jews were pacifists there would be none of us left.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 27, 2022)

White 6 said:


> I understand.  Not much on the psychiatric profession, eh?  This  guy could have been just an reclaimable twist, as I am not saying they do not exist.  At that age, and not knowing what had already been tried, and not from the Psychiatric profession, it is hard to say, at the age he was.
> They say the brain is still developing at that age, possibly to 25 and older.  Young people take things harder, and do not deal with frustration as well or handle their emotions as well as older people.  We do, hold them responsible and have to.  He is said to have a history going back into earlier of not dealing with his frustration, fights and other things.  He was definitely disturbed beyond his ability to deal with it, at that time and something snapped.


All of the available evidence indicates this was long planned, not that he simply snapped.


----------



## White 6 (May 27, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> All of the available evidence indicates this was long planned, not that he simply snapped.


Have not see that evidences, as I've been kinda busy.


----------



## Leo123 (May 27, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Have not see that evidences, as I've been kinda busy.


They said the perp first purchased a rifle then later he purchased thousands of dollars of ammo.   Apparently no one questioned why an 18 year old needed all that but, it is what it is.   The perp sent private messages on FB saying exactly what he was going to do and doing.  I'd say there was some planning by the perp.  That being said, the story is still developing.


----------



## zaangalewa (May 28, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It wouldn't matter if he was.  Our Constitutional rights are not based on our recreational activities.



Your constitution has with the absurde nonsense the USA makes since the 1970ies of the last century absolutelly nothing to do. Muzzle loaders are not the problem.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> They can be taken away, but not by the opinion of somebody.  It would have to be taken away by a judge.



And which judge knows sonething about most simple weapon laws and most simple war weapon control laws?



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yes we have gun laws, but not strong enough penalties for criminals that use guns.



You remember me to someone who prosteted with the slogan _"We need laws against crimes!"_. What a new inspiration! Your inspiration is much more absurde: _"No one needs laws because the criminals anyway will win!" _



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Anytime we have a problem involving a gun, the Communists



Why do you not argue with Ghenghis Khan?



Ray From Cleveland said:


> want to disarm the law abiding citizens instead of making things harder on the criminals, which makes as much sense as taking all the disposable lighters out of a city instead of going after the arsonist. Police in Chicago



I had an offer once to go to Chicago - but I saw not any future for me in the USA. Nevertheless at this time of history Chicago had been a nice and very interesting city



Ray From Cleveland said:


> have complained about arresting people illegally carrying a firearm and seeing them back out on the street the next day.



So your argument in now: _"Because shit happens let us make more shit!"_




Ray From Cleveland said:


> Democrats are for criminals,



I'm also for criminals ... ah sorry: for sinners! But it are nor the sin of the parents which costed the life of their children - it are the sins of the whole USA which costed the life of their children. That's not fair!



Ray From Cleveland said:


> but we don't have an intelligent enough electorate to understand that.  They keep voting for these very same people every election.



You will find here in Germany not anyone - except extremists and terrorists - who is against strict weapon laws.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Sure I have evidence.  Most occupied home break ins usually happen to our elderly or disabled who are likely not armed to protect themselves.



And how many real facts exists behind such a popular opinion which seems to be plausible? Is it really pausible what you say here? The main cause of death for the grandchildren of this elderly people are firearms in the USA! What choice do you suggest have this elderly people to do? The choice between Satan or Beelzebub?



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Outside of that criminals make sure their intended target is not occupied because they don't know if the home owner is armed or not.  You break into my home, I start painting walls with your blood and it's all perfectly legal.  The criminals are well aware of that factor.



This remembers me to an house owner in the USA who murdered a German exchange student in his garage and tried to argue he had the right to do so.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Even more evidence is most of these screwballs who plan a mass murder do so where they know people are not armed.  They avoid places where there is armed security or no restrictions on armed citizens.  This is why our schools are prime targets.  Nobody has a gun in many of those schools.  The mass shooting before that, the same thing.  It happened in New York where it's difficult to get a license to carry and if you do have to use a firearm for self-defense or to save another person, you can still be charged with a crime or at the very least, civil suits for liability.



Very short: The NRA did forbid weapons on their own meeting now. Reason: Trump spoke and his security advisers took care for this. So why not to do the same in the whole USA and to protect in this way the right of free speech from everyone, everywhere and at any time?


----------



## Issa (May 28, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> And yet you left all that for money.


Why not? I'm retiring at 50 and already have my place set up for that back home. Came for a goal achieved it and I'm out. Do I love the US? YES. The only thing that's keeping from staying is I know for a fact thr US is doomed and history is repeating itself. 
Thr friction is getting worse by the day, the divide is getting wider....If having trump and Biden as candidates doesn't tell you much how steep the US fell down I can't explain it you enough.


----------



## zaangalewa (May 28, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Good, because we don't want you here.



You want not anyone on this planet who is not we=I=you.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> I was speaking about what happens with us and this country, not if you ever come visit us sometime.



More concrete: I think everyone who visirs the USA on his own free will is an idiot.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yes, God does give people the right to use deadly force against their attackers.



Speak again with him about this point. You have the rigth to defend yourselve and to defend others. But you are not allknowing - there is no simple way and in very most cases - perhaps in all cases - exist other methods than to kill an attacker. The god given life of everyone is always holy  - whether we like to see this or not.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> What kind of world would we have if we adhered to what "you" believe God wants?



A kind of paradise where everyone could die old and in peace before to enter heaven forever.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> And your statement says it all.  You actually believe that guns poison our brains.  Guns can't do that.  They are inanimate objects.  They have no more control over your mental state than how hungry you may be.



Then throw your weapons into a scrap press.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> As the old saying goes, guns don't kill people--people kill people.  Guns are merely the tool they use to do so.  Blaming the guns for murders is like blaming the cars for drunks that kill other motorists on the road.



What a nonsense. Main cause for the death of young US-Americans are weapons!!! Violent death of teen-agers is in the USA in general very high compared with other nations.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 28, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> They said the perp first purchased a rifle then later he purchased thousands of dollars of ammo.   Apparently no one questioned why an 18 year old needed all that but, it is what it is.   The perp sent private messages on FB saying exactly what he was going to do and doing.  I'd say there was some planning by the perp.  That being said, the story is still developing.


He wrote in a school paper last year he wanted to be a mass shooter and then kill himself.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 28, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Very short: The NRA did forbid weapons on their own meeting now.


No they didn't, you're peddling a lie.

The only part of the convention off limits to firearms was the main event because Trump was speaking and that was done on the order of the Secret Service who is charged to protect him.









						NRA Annual Meeting
					

NRA's Event Of The Year - You're invited to NRA's biggest celebration, with an action-packed lineup of events that includes dinners, auctions, concerts, raffles, seminars, workshops, book signings and more.




					www.nraam.org
				




Stop peddling the lies.


----------



## zaangalewa (May 28, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> No they didn't, you're peddling a lie.



That's wrong or do you like to say Donald Trump spoke in a room full of weaponed serios heroes who protect the weak and know very well something substantial about the history of the world? Then congrats to the funeral of Donald Trump and the Führer - ah sorry: leaders - of the NRA! Sad that first had to die children before you awoke and started to solve the real problem. ...


----------



## Flash (May 28, 2022)




----------



## White 6 (May 28, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> They said the perp first purchased a rifle then later he purchased thousands of dollars of ammo.   Apparently no one questioned why an 18 year old needed all that but, it is what it is.   The perp sent private messages on FB saying exactly what he was going to do and doing.  I'd say there was some planning by the perp.  That being said, the story is still developing.


Didn't know this was another, where a nut ball even sent a message to FBI.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 28, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Speak again with him about this point. You have the rigth to defend yourselve and to defend others. But you are not allknowing - there is no simple way and in very most cases - perhaps in all cases - exist other methods than to kill an attacker. The god given life of everyone is always holy - whether we like to see this or not.



The only way to control crime is a strong enough deterrent.  Death is the strongest deterrent known to man.  The reason countries have nuclear weapons is so they don't have to use them, not because we have them to use.  It's the same with guns.  I have no desire to shoot or kill anybody, but if it comes down to me or him, I'm living another day to tell my story. 

If my potential attacker suspects I may be armed, I stand a much better chance he won't bother with me in the first place.  If I'm in a gun-free zone or place I'm not allowed to carry, the potential attacker knows he has me over a barrel.  I'm older, have serious medical conditions, and certainly no match for one or more physically fit attackers in their 20's.  When my safety or life is involved, I'm not about to risk it by trying some alternative means to stop an attack.  You may only have one chance to avoid being seriously hurt or killed, and I don't think God would frown upon that instinct of survival he gave to me.  




zaangalewa said:


> A kind of paradise where everyone could die old and in peace before to enter heaven forever.



You really live in your own little world, don't you?  You actually believe that by getting rid of guns, it will turn all the bad people into good people; we will all join hands and sing Kumbaya on the streets.  You can live in your own fantasy world, but I'll live in reality thank you.  



zaangalewa said:


> What a nonsense. Main cause for the death of young US-Americans are weapons!!! Violent death of teen-agers is in the USA in general very high compared with other nations.



Our Center for Disease Control says you are full of it.  The number one cause of deaths for teenagers are accident, not shootings.  





__





						Products - Data Briefs - Number 37 - May 2010
					

Mortality Among Teenagers Aged 12–19 Years: United States, 1999–2006




					www.cdc.gov
				




Our country is one of the most diverse in the world.  Most of our crime are caused by minorities.  So you can't compare our country with mostly if not all entirely white countries.  In the US, 54% of our murders are committed by blacks which are 13% of our population.  Another fact is that most murders are committed by males.  So in the end, most US murders are committed by 7% to 8% of our population which are black males.  You don't have this problem in other single-culture countries.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 28, 2022)

Issa said:


> Why not? I'm retiring at 50 and already have my place set up for that back home. Came for a goal achieved it and I'm out. Do I love the US? YES. The only thing that's keeping from staying is I know for a fact thr US is doomed and history is repeating itself.
> Thr friction is getting worse by the day, the divide is getting wider....If having trump and Biden as candidates doesn't tell you much how steep the US fell down I can't explain it you enough.



Your thought process sounds pretty stupid to me.  You left (what you call) this wonderful place, to live most of your life for money?  If I lived in such a place all the money wouldn't mean anything to me.  Happiness is not found in your bank account.  

So you retire at 50, become seriously ill and die at 55.  What kind of life is that when you could have spent all those years in a place you consider paradise?  

I was born here and believe this is the greatest country in the world, not just for the opportunity of financial success or stability, but because of our freedom, rights and Constitution that protects them.  I don't know what country you're from, but wherever it is, I'm quite sure people are not killing themselves trying to get in.  Here people die every single day trying to get past our borders for the slightest chance they may be able to stay legally or illegally.  

The demise of any country is possible, but people have been predicting ours for generations and it never happened.  If it does happen, it will be because we've allowed the liberals to destroy this place which we are strongly fighting against.  How would they be able to destroy it?  By turning us into one of those other countries you consider paradise.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 28, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Your constitution has with the absurde nonsense the USA makes since the 1970ies of the last century absolutelly nothing to do. Muzzle loaders are not the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not going to waste my time responding to your post.  Try going to school to learn how to answer a post in a few paragraphs instead of breaking it up into a dozen pices or more. It's way too time consuming to reply to all these quotes.


----------



## zaangalewa (May 28, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The only way to control crime is a strong enough deterrent.



The best way to control crimes is not to have to control crimes because this crimes don't happen.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Death is the strongest deterrent known to man.



What's totally wrong if you listen what experienced psychologists and forensics say. It's exactly in the opposite. Death penalty and or higher risks to be killed make criminals reckless. "Everything or nothing", "dead or alive" are in this case the background ideas. But to have to go to prison - to have to come back from prison - and to have to live again under the normal people who had suffered because of the own crimes is much more deterrent.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> The reason countries have nuclear weapons is so they don't have to use them, not because we have them to use.



"We" are all together mad because "we" have nukes for an overkill of all life on planet Earth. That's why most nations in the world are not a part of your "we" in thsi case and have no nukes and are members of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> It's the same with guns.



Nothing is the same. A muzzle loader is no nuke nor a machine gun.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> I have no desire to shoot or kill anybody, but if it comes down to me or him, I'm living another day to tell my story.



You are an brainwashend man - or even a brainwashed brainwasher - that's all. What you say is a fake-reality which you self-create but not a reality which exists on its own.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> If my potential attacker suspects I may be armed, I stand a much better chance he won't bother with me in the first place.



Asides that you never will meet in a normal life an attacker is even this theory wrong. Your potential attacker will buy a gun and kill you faster than you are able to say "Hello?". Guns favor attackers.  I remember a situaion where some of your policeman had been in the very best situation which is able to be and they reacted in the very best way which had been possible. No layman had had any chance against this professionals. But even in this perfect situation an assassinator with a war gun murdered a minimum of 4 people. This all had happened within very few seconds.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> If I'm in a gun-free zone or place I'm not allowed to carry, the potential attacker knows he has me over a barrel.



Come to Germany and you will be everywhere in a gun-free zone. And in case someone has to have a gun - what needs good reasons and a good knowledge - exist very strict rules. And everyone is happy with this strict rules.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> I'm older, have serious medical conditions, and certainly no match for one or more physically fit attackers in their 20's.  When my safety or life is involved, I'm not about to risk it by trying some alternative means to stop an attack.  You may only have one chance to avoid being seriously hurt or killed, and I don't think God would frown upon that instinct of survival he gave to me.



You are an abstrahot - that's your problem. In Berlin for example an older man saw a teenager who seemed to be not happy. He went to him and asked him _"Do you need help?"_. The boy murdered him. Justifies this anything in your opinion? No!!!

This is also an effect of the US-American way of violence in stupid films and stupid video games and an effect of alcoholism and/or drug abuse and ... and ... and ... And does this mean that not also today - like in many many other days of history - old men went to young guys here in Germany and asked them _"Do you need help?"._




Ray From Cleveland said:


> You really live in your own little world, don't you?



Yes.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> You actually believe that by getting rid of guns, it will turn all the bad people into good people;



No. I would perhaps more trend to the opinion: _"Guns turn good people into bad people". _



Ray From Cleveland said:


> we will all join hands and sing Kumbaya on the streets.  You can live in your own fantasy world, but I'll live in reality thank you.



It's not a fantasy that about 250,000 Germans policemen fire in a normal year less than 100 shots including warn shots and have to kill less than 10 criminals. (Since decades!)



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Our Center for Disease Control says you are full of it.  The number one cause of deaths for teenagers are accident, not shootings.



What about accidents with guns?



Ray From Cleveland said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How? Your immigration rate is compared with Germany nearly not existing.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Most of our crime are caused by minorities.



US-Americans are not a minority in the USA.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> So you can't compare our country with mostly if not all entirely white countries.



I know. In the USA 1+1 means a war between 1 and 1 and can end with 1 or 0. In other countries of the world 1+1=2.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> In the US, 54% of our murders are committed by blacks which are 13% of our population.



Who live since how long in their country USA?



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Another fact is that most murders are committed by males.



That's very easily to explain: Men are often extremely aggressive drug addicts and alcoholics.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> So in the end, most US murders are committed by 7% to 8% of our population which are black males.



So black males need a better school and education system - and more resilience against the use of weapons, drugs and alcohol ... and also more resilience against violent video games ... and ...



Ray From Cleveland said:


> You don't have this problem in other single-culture countries.



What do you call "second culture" in the USA?


----------



## flan327 (May 28, 2022)

Calypso Jones said:


> This is gonna disappear fasst for so many reasons.


Censorship by BreitFART?


----------



## flan327 (May 28, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I'm not going to waste my time responding to your post.  Try going to school to learn how to answer a post in a few paragraphs instead of breaking it up into a dozen pices or more. It's way too time consuming to reply to all these quotes.


Yet you keep replying


----------



## Calypso Jones (May 28, 2022)

When will this mass killing of school children by other young men stop?  When GOD is invited back into our schools, our gov't, our society, our lives.  THAT is when it will stop.    We saw it start to go back to the right way when President Trump was in office.   We saw it deteriorate under clinton, bush, obama, and NOW the worst of the worst...Biden.  And satan is using a man without his full faculties.   Why is the left  so  in denial of the Good that President Trump did?  Because this is what they want right now.  The breakdown of society.  I can't blame left supporters totally. Most of them do not know or see what their leaders are doing to this country and ultimately to them too.   They think in terms of tolerance with no law, no morals, except what man calls morals.   This doesn't work.  It won't work.


----------



## Calypso Jones (May 28, 2022)

“If the older generation can not get accustomed to us, we shall take their children away from them and rear them as needful to the Fatherland."

This is what the Left, the biden admin has been doing to us.  Targetting our kids to get past us.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 28, 2022)

flan327 said:


> Yet you keep replying



Dumb fuck.  Did I reply to his last post outside of telling him I'm not replying?


----------



## basquebromance (May 28, 2022)




----------



## Leo123 (May 28, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Didn't know this was another, where a nut ball even sent a message to FBI.


No Facebook he sent a private message to a stranger reportedly.


----------



## Leo123 (May 28, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> He wrote in a school paper last year he wanted to be a mass shooter and then kill himself.


That seems like a pretty big red flag!


----------



## White 6 (May 28, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> That seems like a pretty big red flag!


I didn't see this one either.


----------



## Issa (May 28, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Your thought process sounds pretty stupid to me.  You left (what you call) this wonderful place, to live most of your life for money?  If I lived in such a place all the money wouldn't mean anything to me.  Happiness is not found in your bank account.
> 
> So you retire at 50, become seriously ill and die at 55.  What kind of life is that when you could have spent all those years in a place you consider paradise?
> 
> ...



You got it all wrong. You see I don't believe that this country or my country of origin belongs just to those who were born in them, I believe that god created this earth for humans but some stupid greedy humans thought they can keep it to themselves. That's like asking bees, animals, whales, fish, bird to stick to one area. Before your kind there were other races, and there will be other races that's just how human nature is MIGRATION. 

I'm from a country that it very old, my ancestors crossed to Europe and built most of the south of Europe, we also were the first country to recognize the independence of the US and offer it its first building outside the US. The US is merely in power for 100 and is already losing its grip, we did it for 8 centuries.

50 Is the new 30 my dear and tell me how many 50 year old you know of that can or did retire? I see many Americans who have to work till they drop because they can't afford retiring. And no the US is not the greatest country on earth, not when the kids are gunned down, where homelessness is worse than most third world countries, where the elderly have to fend for themselves and die for days unknowingly in their houses without loved ones around to take care of them, not when drugs are rampaging the youth and adults alike, not when you have settle between dumb and dumber (Biden and Trump), not when the rape rate is one of the highest in the world, and I can go and on. I agree with you that the US has the best savage capitalism system that enriching the rich yes, that the US is breeding ground of innovation (Thanks to the influx of brains from immigration).

Go travel a bit and you'll realize how much you have been lied to and your were brainwashed that you are the best there is. For god's sake you can't even walk in your town at night without being on alert.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 28, 2022)

Issa said:


> You got it all wrong. You see I don't believe that this country or my country of origin belongs just to those who were born in them, I believe that god created this earth for humans but some stupid greedy humans thought they can keep it to themselves. That's like asking bees, animals, whales, fish, bird to stick to one area. Before your kind there were other races, and there will be other races that's just how human nature is MIGRATION.
> 
> I'm from a country that it very old, my ancestors crossed to Europe and built most of the south of Europe, we also were the first country to recognize the independence of the US and offer it its first building outside the US. The US is merely in power for 100 and is already losing its grip, we did it for 8 centuries.
> 
> ...



This is true, and the reason we can't walk around safely is because of minorities.  Had our ancestors kept this country white or as white as possible, I'd be able to walk down my street day or night safely.  How do I know this?  Because that's the way it was here when it was all white.

The people that occupy or created a country is theirs.  That's why when you look at a globe it has all those different names on it, not nameless land, those are countries.  Humans are not birds or bees, but if I have a problem with birds or bees on my property, I eliminate them.  If you don't believe in property or ownership, tell me, how many homeless are sleeping in your house right now?  How many times do you leave your door unlocked for anybody to come in and make themselves at home?  Animals are more territorial than humans.  If you don't believe that, try taking over a bear den or invade a pride of lions sometime.

The greatest thing about the United States is everybody is in charge of their own fate.  If you didn't advance yourself throughout life, you may end up homeless, old with little to live on, have to work until the day you drop.  But if that is the case, it's a choice you made, not a plague out of your control. 

Also in the United States we do have places where government takes total care of you.  They feed you, clothe you, provide television, pool rooms and a field for sports activities and exercise.  You can work if you want, or not work at all.  Nobody has guns or money except the government.  We call these places prisons, and they're not that difficult to get into.


----------



## Issa (May 28, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> This is true, and the reason we can't walk around safely is because of minorities.  Had our ancestors kept this country white or as white as possible, I'd be able to walk down my street day or night safely.  How do I know this?  Because that's the way it was here when it was all white.
> 
> The people that occupy or created a country is theirs.  That's why when you look at a globe it has all those different names on it, not nameless land, those are countries.  Humans are not birds or bees, but if I have a problem with birds or bees on my property, I eliminate them.  If you don't believe in property or ownership, tell me, how many homeless are sleeping in your house right now?  How many times do you leave your door unlocked for anybody to come in and make themselves at home?  Animals are more territorial than humans.  If you don't believe that, try taking over a bear den or invade a pride of lions sometime.
> 
> ...


That's how you see life and that's your freedom of thoughts but it is totally wrong.
Whites have being killing each others since the beginning of times, oh actually humans because color has nothing to do with how ones thinks or behaves. The minorities you talking about are mainly the blacks they you used as slaves, threw in ghettos and expected them to fair for themselves with lesser options and lesser opportunities, as they say "You reap what you sow".

If you think that white is an advantage, where were white Europeans in dark ages when the Moors and Islamic empire were centuries ahead of them in every aspect of life, they even crossed to build their cities, teach them hygiene practices, build paved roads, universities even animal shelters...your white ancestors were living in filth and decay. Go travel to South of Europe and visit Alhambra, Sevilla, Cordoba, Portugal and ask scholars who brought science, Algebra, Medicine, Geometry, Algorithms and so much more to Europe and Europeans took over from there.....Unlike you I appreciate every civilizations contribution to humanity where you think is a white and dark thing. And even before where Europeans during Babylon, The Pharaohs and so many other non white civilizations?

Dude In the 20 years that I live in Los Angeles 80% beggars I encountered are white and the last time someone to steal a neighbor's bike was white in a predominantly hispanic city. The color theory has been debunked scientifically, historically and statistically and there no human whose color is white.

Heck even Pfizer who saved billions of lives is led by 2 Muslim scientist, heck even the vaccine Cezar that was appointed by Trump to help find and distribute the vaccine and save America was a Muslim. So imagine if you let only white in, you would've been toasted.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 28, 2022)

Issa said:


> That's how you see life and that's your freedom of thoughts but it is totally wrong.
> Whites have being killing each others since the beginning of times, oh actually humans because color has nothing to do with how ones thinks or behaves. The minorities you talking about are mainly the blacks they you used as slaves, threw in ghettos and expected them to fair for themselves with lesser options and lesser opportunities, as they say "You reap what you sow".
> 
> If you think that white is an advantage, where were white Europeans in dark ages when the Moors and Islamic empire were centuries ahead of them in every aspect of life, they even crossed to build their cities, teach them hygiene practices, build paved roads, universities even animal shelters...your white ancestors were living in filth and decay. Go travel to South of Europe and visit Alhambra, Sevilla, Cordoba, Portugal and ask scholars who brought science, Algebra, Medicine, Geometry, Algorithms and so much more to Europe and Europeans took over from there.....Unlike you I appreciate every civilizations contribution to humanity where you think is a white and dark thing. And even before where Europeans during Babylon, The Pharaohs and so many other non white civilizations?
> ...



The difference between whites and minorities is whites became more civilized as time went on where minorities became more uncivilized.  That's not so say every white person is an angel but crime statistics clearly supports my point.  You don't see us whites moving into minority neighborhoods, you see them invading ours.  Why is that?  Because we whites created vibrant, thriving and safe environments.


----------



## scruffy (May 28, 2022)

Issa said:


> Disarm everyone, capital punishment for anyone who is armed. If not you'll always have mass shootings till end of times.


This is a leftist LIE.  

How come there were no mass shootings in the 60's? Or before?


----------



## scruffy (May 28, 2022)

Issa said:


> I actual align more right than left. I'm just not a sheep like most of you.


Not if you want to take my weapons.

That puts you SQUARELY left of center.

And I do mean square.


----------



## scruffy (May 28, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Every Swiss would sink into the Earth on shame if a Swiss would speak like you with a German like me.



THIS ^^^ is why the arrogant Germans are universally reviled.

They're so fucking high and mighty they think the Swiss are going to lick their balls just for being alive.

I have news for you dumbshit, the Swiss dislike the Germans VERY MUCH. Always have. Any respect you are shown is purely perfunctory.

You are IGNORANT of history. Anyone can read a book, but not everyone has 900 years of direct evidence.

I have a message for my Nazi German friends: look in the mirror. You live in a glass house, it's not wise to throw stones.


----------



## scruffy (May 28, 2022)

Issa said:


> For god's sake you can't even walk in your town at night without being on alert.


And you could, in say, 17th century England?


----------



## Issa (May 28, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Not if you want to take my weapons.
> 
> That puts you SQUARELY left of center.
> 
> And I do mean square.


Well if you have lived in a gun free country you would know how wonderfully peaceful it is, but unfortunately you don't. You wanna keep your toys and watch massacres unfold. And god forbid you or your loved one looses their shit and pick that toy and go on a rampage also. Guns are very tempting.


----------



## scruffy (May 28, 2022)

Issa said:


> Well if you have lived in a gun free country you would know how wonderfully peaceful it is,



LOL

Landru

Wonderfully peaceful

Except when it gets "mostly" peaceful. 




Issa said:


> but unfortunately you don't. You wanna keep your toys and watch massacres unfold. And god forbid you or your loved one looses their shit and pick that toy and go on a rampage also. Guns are very tempting.


That's just stupid.

Guns are for KILLING. They're for self defense, and for hunting.

They're not toys 

Anyone who says a gun is a toy is a plain old idiot.

Unless he's a six year old with retarded parents


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 28, 2022)

22lcidw said:


> Prog domination is already treating citizens badly here.




Were you ever treated as badly as the ten year old little girl who goes to school , perhaps to learn how many nIckels are in a quarter, and instead she learns what it’s like to have a stranger who looks like a soldier firing an assault rifle with a thirty round clip at her and your classmates.

The scary man was law abiding enough for the bullish society that this new child joyfully joined, without a moments hesitation, joyfully and eagerly sold him those weapons of war as if he was buying toothpaste. He was excersing a right more precious than this little girls right to life, 

So with no assistance from TEXAS at that point this brave and resourceful child chose her right to life by smearing the blood of her classmates on her shirt and pretended to be dead, 

Seriously, 22lcidw tell me when a “Prog” society treated you more badly than the Texas devoted to gun culture society treated that little girl and the unprotected 19 children and two teachers who did not survive the encounter with the monster that the NRA and Republican Party and Texas government protects until it does something evil with the weapons of war / then the only word gun boys know is “can’t”


----------



## zaangalewa (May 28, 2022)

scruffy said:


> THIS ^^^ is why the arrogant Germans are universally reviled.
> 
> They're so fucking high and mighty they think the Swiss are going to lick their balls just for being alive.
> 
> ...



Now tell the same an inhabitant of Bern who knows me and he would look as bewildered as I, anti-Swiss .


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 28, 2022)

Issa said:


> toys


Exactly. 18 more dead kids so Texas boys can play with their toys and pretend they are God’s glorious defenders of freedom.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 28, 2022)

Issa said:


> Well if you have lived in a gun free country you would know how wonderfully peaceful it is, but unfortunately you don't. You wanna keep your toys and watch massacres unfold. And god forbid you or your loved one looses their shit and pick that toy and go on a rampage also. Guns are very tempting.



Correct, we do not live in a gun-free country and never will.  That's the reason law abiding citizens need to be armed.  If you can tell me a way to disarm all criminals, let me know, because perhaps we can extrapolate that theory to our terrible drug problem in this country; recreational drugs, the kind that have been illegal all of my life.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 29, 2022)

scruffy said:


> This is a leftist LIE.
> 
> How come there were no mass shootings in the 60's? Or before?



Because in the 60's most people were religious and believed in God and an after life.  Because most households were two-parent families and in most cases the mother was home with her children or got home from work before school let out.


----------



## Issa (May 29, 2022)

scruffy said:


> LOL
> 
> Landru
> 
> ...


23 years in a gun free country we never had to turn on the TV and someone taking many lives. We have crazy people but thank god we don't have guns that will empower them.
Well many said the same, till their wife or boss pisses them and they go on a rampage. Guns do unable even the week to inflict a huge harm. We had kids as young as 10 being massacred in where it supposed to be one of the safest places for kids to learn and have fun.


----------



## Issa (May 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Because in the 60's most people were religious and believed in God and an after life.  Because most households were two-parent families and in most cases the mother was home with her children or got home from work before school let out.


In the period of the mafia, Irish and other gangs....the country was in the grip of organized crime and i guess because they were is not bad after all. 
the 60s as the stats show had lots of crimes too, Serial killers and child killer but with the population growth the crime grew. Just don't try and lie to make your point. Bring facts to the table please.


----------



## scruffy (May 29, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> an inhabitant of Bern who knows me


Sounds like, "some of my best friends are Jewish!" 

My mother was born in Bern. I have 105 cousins in and around Bern.


----------



## zaangalewa (May 29, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Sounds like, "some of my best friends are Jewish!"
> 
> My mother was born in Bern. I have 105 cousins in and around Bern.



You are a shame for Switzerland. In the eyes of the Nazis I'm by the way a Jew. And I don't like to know now anything about your anti-Semitism or your anti-anti-Semitism nor any other of your thoughts why you like to misuse my from the Nazis murdered family members for your own stupid criminal psychopathological structure to think.

Perhaps you should learn to listen to the words of a German like for example Friedrich Schiller in the following video. And do not forget to tell your Bernian relatives how you "killed" a Jewish Nazi-German with your platitudes because this damn asshole tried to protect the children from US-American citizens from mass-murder by money-feudalists like Donald Trump and the criminal leaders of a faking organisation like the NRA.


In memoriam Friedrich Schiller


----------



## Weatherman2020 (May 29, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Raising the age to buy his weapons to 21, same as hand guns would have at least put it off for 3 years.


Then voting goes back to 21.


----------



## Weatherman2020 (May 29, 2022)

Issa said:


> Disarm everyone, capital punishment for anyone who is armed. If not you'll always have mass shootings till end of times.


----------



## zaangalewa (May 29, 2022)

Weatherman2020 said:


> View attachment 651226



This is a soldier. And also this soldiers needs a world free from war weapons in his private life.


----------



## Weatherman2020 (May 29, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> This is a soldier. And also this soldiers needs a world free from war weapons in his private life.


Not going to endanger my family because you want to be deluded into feeling safe.


----------



## zaangalewa (May 29, 2022)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Not going to endanger my family because you want to be deluded into feeling safe.



What exactly do you like to say to me with this words?


----------



## Flash (May 29, 2022)




----------



## zaangalewa (May 29, 2022)

Flash said:


> View attachment 651252



Who is George Floyd and who of us shot him why and what has this to do with anything? Or do you speak about this George Floyd who was killed from policemen of the USA? But what has this to do with Germany?


----------



## White 6 (May 29, 2022)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Then voting goes back to 21.


Most 18 year-olds, I would trust with a vote, faster than I would trust with a gun, as what ever they vote (and many don't) their vote is diluted in effect. When you decide to point a weapon, it can and often does have immediate serious effect.
You sound like favoring hard and fast one size fits all kind of guy and let the law of averages sort it out.  Am I wrong?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 29, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Most 18 year-olds, I would trust with a vote, faster than I would trust with a gun, as what ever they vote (and many don't) their vote is diluted in effect. When you decide to point a weapon, it can and often does have immediate serious effect.
> You sound like favoring hard and fast one size fits all kind of guy and let the law of averages sort it out.  Am I wrong?



Different rights should not come with different ages.  The left would love the age to purchase a gun be at 21 and we would like the voting age to be 21.  I think it's a fair trade off.  I know the left always wants to receive without giving anything up in exchange, but it's only fair. 

IMO most 18 year olds know little to nothing about policies or issues.  It's also my opinion that outside of guns, nothing can be more important than deciding on who leads our country.  After all, look at the mess we are in today because of politically ignorant voters.  Record gasoline prices, taunting a nuclear armed country that did threaten us, labor shortage, supply chain shortage, highest inflation in 40 years, highest interest rates in 15 years, worst border problem in 20 years, and mothers that can't even get food for their babies.  Our country is a complete mess because of ignorant voters. 

There is no guarantee that raising the age for gun purchases will stop the next mass shooter, but we stand a really good chance at weeding out the stupid people too young to vote and getting better leadership in this country by raising the voting age to 21.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The left would love the age to purchase a gun be at 21 and we would like the voting age to be 21. I think it's a fair trade off


When the next 18-year-old gets his hands on a stack of ballots and crashes into a school and mass murders  21 children and teachers For an hour before being shot by police we will talk. Until then The fact that you’re not very bright is duly noted.

A 10-year-old little girl who survived a Texas shooting by smearing her dead classmates blood on her shirt and played dead is smarter than you. Let her vote if you have the right to vote For politicians who make it easy as possible for anybody to buy an Assault rifle with a 30 round clips and high velocity bullets to shoot her with. Jesus. Do you want us to believe in your God?


----------



## Weatherman2020 (May 29, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Who is George Floyd and who of us shot him why and what has this to do with anything? Or do you speak about this George Floyd who was killed from policemen of the USA? But what has this to do with Germany?


You can be stupider than a brick sometimes.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 29, 2022)

Issa said:


> In the period of the mafia, Irish and other gangs....the country was in the grip of organized crime and i guess because they were is not bad after all.
> the 60s as the stats show had lots of crimes too, Serial killers and child killer but with the population growth the crime grew. Just don't try and lie to make your point. Bring facts to the table please.



I do bring facts.  I was a child in school in the 60's.  You could walk in or out of them through unlocked doors with no concern.  Nobody dreamed of going into a school and killing a bunch of innocent kids.  What changed?  We always had guns.  We always had violent television shows.  Westerns were very popular back then and a lot of that was shooting scenes. 

What changed was our society.  The commies pushed for single-parent homes during the women's lib movement to try and buy votes.  We took God out of school and nearly all of society itself.  We stopped having people committed because it was a constitutional violation.  I remember in the 70's.  Geraldo had his own weekly television show.  He's the one that started the movement institutions were holding people that committed no crimes.  It started a movement that led to us opening up all those locked doors and letting those people out, and we haven't locked them up since.  Thanks to that, homeless are roaming our streets by the tens of thousands.  Liberal cities give them syringes so they can shoot themselves up with drugs safely.  Crazy people are getting guns and there is absolutely nothing we can do to them until they use one in a crime.  

We had our faults in the earlier days, but not the problems we have today mostly thanks to the liberals.


----------



## scruffy (May 29, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> You are a shame for Switzerland.



You just don't get it, do you?

I am => NOT INTERESTED <= in your worthless German opinion.

And FUCK YOU for your arrogant pejorative opinion of the Swiss.

YOU are a typical German fucktard, and the rest of the world DOES NOT SHARE YOUR OPINION.

You dumb fuckers elected a Stasi operative to lead you country. Enough said.


----------



## Weatherman2020 (May 29, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> When the next 18-year-old gets his hands on a stack of ballots and crashes into a school and mass murders  21 children and teachers For an hour before being shot by police we will talk. Until then The fact that you’re not very bright is duly noted.
> 
> A 10-year-old little girl who survived a Texas shooting by smearing her dead classmates blood on her shirt and played dead is smarter than you. Let her vote if you have the right to vote For politicians who make it easy as possible for anybody to buy an Assault rifle with a 30 round clips and high velocity bullets to shoot her with. Jesus. Do you want us to believe in your God?


Why do people need guns?
Police stand around outside while children are being murdered. 

If government ran the Sarah desert they’d run out of sand.


----------



## scruffy (May 29, 2022)

Weatherman2020 said:


> You can be stupider than a brick sometimes.


This person is a more-than-typical arrogant German douchebag.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 29, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> When the next 18-year-old gets his hands on a stack of ballots and crashes into a school and mass murders  21 children and teachers For an hour before being shot by police we will talk. Until then The fact that you’re not very bright is duly noted.
> 
> A 10-year-old little girl who survived a Texas shooting by smearing her dead classmates blood on her shirt and played dead is smarter than you. Let her vote if you have the right to vote For politicians who make it easy as possible for anybody to buy an Assault rifle with a 30 round clips and high velocity bullets to shoot her with. Jesus. Do you want us to believe in your God?



I'm not very bright?  When a person commits a mass murder like this, your solution is to take guns away from law abiding people.  Nothing can be less bright than that, as if making some new law would actually stop them.


----------



## Weatherman2020 (May 29, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> When the next 18-year-old gets his hands on a stack of ballots and crashes into a school and mass murders  21 children and teachers For an hour before being shot by police we will talk. Until then The fact that you’re not very bright is duly noted.
> 
> A 10-year-old little girl who survived a Texas shooting by smearing her dead classmates blood on her shirt and played dead is smarter than you. Let her vote if you have the right to vote For politicians who make it easy as possible for anybody to buy an Assault rifle with a 30 round clips and high velocity bullets to shoot her with. Jesus. Do you want us to believe in your God?


I’m not going to risk the safety of my family so you can get a false sense of security.


----------



## Flash (May 29, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Who is George Floyd and who of us shot him why and what has this to do with anything? Or do you speak about this George Floyd who was killed from policemen of the USA? But what has this to do with Germany?


It is a play on the joke from the iconic movie "Animal House".


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 29, 2022)

Weatherman2020 said:


> I’m not going to risk the safety of my family so you can get a false sense of security.


That’s your choice. But if the next law abiding citizen easily buys an assault rifle and enough ammo to shoot to kill all the deer in Kansas, Suddenly goes wacko and then open me fire on a group of teenagers hanging out in the mall and one of them is yours don’t come crying to me. You killed your own.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> your solution is to take guns away from law abiding people. N



My solution is not and never has been to take guns away from rightwing law-abiding citizens you dimwit. Just prove my point. You are not very bright. I won’t lie buying citizens to keep playing with them Until they grow up.


----------



## Weatherman2020 (May 29, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> That’s your choice. But if the next law abiding citizen easily buys an assault rifle and enough ammo to shoot to kill all the deer in Kansas, Suddenly goes wacko and then open me fire on a group of teenagers hanging out in the mall and one of them is yours don’t come crying to me. You killed your own.


Thank God the Border Patrols barber had a gun to give him so he could drive 40 miles to go shoot the murderer. 

It’s too bad this school didn’t have armed teachers.


----------



## Weatherman2020 (May 29, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> My solution is not and never has been to take guns away from rightwing law-abiding citizens you dimwit. Just prove my point. You are not very bright. I won’t lie buying citizens to keep playing with them Until they grow up.


And tell us how this person should have never had a gun. 

Oh yeah. You want to grab guns from law abiding citizens.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 29, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> My solution is not and never has been to take guns away from rightwing law-abiding citizens you dimwit. Just prove my point. You are not very bright. I won’t lie buying citizens to keep playing with them Until they grow up.



All your rants point to you wanting to see a disarmed society.  So tell me, if that's not your position, what is?  Think raising the age will do shit?  Do age limits have any affect on the teens shooting other teens in Chicago with handguns which you have to be at least 21 years old to buy?  

No, you don't want to take guns away from law abiding people, 



NotfooledbyW said:


> That’s your choice. But if the next law abiding citizen easily buys an assault rifle and enough ammo to shoot to kill all the deer in Kansas, Suddenly goes wacko and then open me fire on a group of teenagers hanging out in the mall and one of them is yours don’t come crying to me.


----------



## Weatherman2020 (May 29, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> That’s your choice. But if the next law abiding citizen easily buys an assault rifle and enough ammo to shoot to kill all the deer in Kansas, Suddenly goes wacko and then open me fire on a group of teenagers hanging out in the mall and one of them is yours don’t come crying to me. You killed your own.


There are more guns in America than citizens. 
So what’s your solution?


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Nothing can be less bright than that, as if making some new law would actually stop them.


I want to make it impossible for an 18-year-old to buy an assault rifle and high velocity ammunition with 30 round clips without a damn good reason for why he needs one for starters.

There will be an application process to buy a weapon that looks like an assault rifle used by the military. If there’s any semblance of hate towards other races or towards the opposite sex, or opposing political views recorded in any of his social media then he will be watched during a two years application process requireing not posting any of that rape shit like Ramos did, if he is going to earn the right to play with an AR15 ever. The applicant signs a contract that if he slips up during those two years he gives up all rights to gun possession and ownership for life. 

You probably oppose that right off the bat. You enabled Ramos to buy his assault weapon easily,  to be was used  immediately to mass murder 19 kids and two of their teachers while the good guys with the guns didn’t move very fast to protect the most vulnerable in our society. 

You have no soul. You have no heart. You should not have any say in this matter. That’s why I hope JD Vance loses. We don’t need NRAowned US Senators holding school kids hostage to service the NRA and the gun manufacturers so unknown problem people can easily buy guns to shoot them. 

MY sister is on a first name basis working with Congressman  Ryan on the *The SFC Heath Robinson Pact ACT *which is a huge deal coming to the aid  of Veterans suffering from the effects of burn pits white in Iraq. My niece was married to Heath, they have a daughter and Heath died of multiple cancers after keeping him isolated and protected from rightwing anti-maskers during COVID. But the cancer was too much. My sister and congressman Ryan have been instrumental in getting this bill almost to a vote as we speak. She is in DC right now at the rolling thunder Rally as a speaking part of the Memorial Day event which will provide so much benefits for our veterans. There’s still a chance that Republicans can shoot it down in the coming weeks but I hope not. Fucking Republicans.

My sister carries all the time. Her husband is a hunter.  they both know the NRA is evil Because they know Democrats are not coming to grab any law abiding citizens guns. . It’s an NRA lie to their suckers for cash to buy Senators. Well enough of that is enough. Let’s fire 10 Republican NRA owned senators over the next decade. Start by not letting Vance get near him Save school kids from dying in gunfire. 

I hooe to volunteer to work on RYAN’s campaign to start Putting an end to your gun grabber bullshit.


----------



## Weatherman2020 (May 29, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I want to make it impossible for an 18-year-old to buy an assault rifle and high velocity ammunition with 30 round clips without a damn good reason for why he needs one for starters.
> 
> There will be an application process to buy a weapon that looks like an assault rifle used by the military. If there’s any semblance of hate towards other races or towards the opposite sex, or opposing political views recorded in any of his social media then he will be watched during a two years application process requireing not posting any of that rape shit like Ramos did, if he is going to earn the right to play with an AR15 ever. The applicant signs a contract that if he slips up during those two years he gives up all rights to gun possession and ownership for life.
> 
> ...


Thanks for confirming you’re a gun grabber.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 29, 2022)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Thanks for confirming you’re a gun grabber.


Your lack of intelligence is duly noted .  Keep your stupid guns.


----------



## Weatherman2020 (May 29, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Your lack of intelligence is duly noted .  Keep your stupid guns.


Gun grabbers should be …. Shot?


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 29, 2022)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Gun grabbers should be …. Shot?


Why did you buy all that ammo? But hey if it makes you feel like a man to threaten phantoms and your paranoid delusions. Have at it!  Nothing else will.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 29, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I want to make it impossible for an 18-year-old to buy an assault rifle and high velocity ammunition with 30 round clips without a damn good reason for why he needs one for starters.
> 
> There will be an application process to buy a weapon that looks like an assault rifle used by the military. If there’s any semblance of hate towards other races or towards the opposite sex, or opposing political views recorded in any of his social media then he will be watched during a two years application process requireing not posting any of that rape shit like Ramos did, if he is going to earn the right to play with an AR15 ever. The applicant signs a contract that if he slips up during those two years he gives up all rights to gun possession and ownership for life.
> 
> ...



It's easy to do, just petition for a constitutional amendment.  You either have a constitutional right or you don't.  You don't have to give a reason to exercise any right to anybody in our free country.

And I see you are reading from your Holy Bible, 1984.  Any semblance of hate, opposing political views, freedom of speech or racism would allow the Communists to deny you your rights.  Why am I not shocked?  Better question:  why don't you just move to North Korea or Cuba where you'd be happier? 

If you have a theory on how to make it impossible for anybody under the age of 21 to buy an AR, let me see what you got.  Let's try using it on our drug problem first in this country that killed over 107,000 Americans last year.  If you can show me how it's done, I'd like to know what it is since recreational and dangerous drugs have been illegal my entire life, and we have a worse problem now than we ever had.









						More kids ages 10 - 18 are dying from fentanyl overdoses in Colorado
					

In 2021, 35 kids aged 10 to 18 died from a fentanyl overdose in Colorado. That's compared to five in 2019.




					www.9news.com


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 30, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Any semblance of hate, opposing political views, freedom of speech or racism would allow the Communists to deny you your rights.


You are defending the right for every citizen, never convicted of a major crime, to commit atrocities with whatever weapon of war or means of killing humans that humankind can devise. Of course that right goes up to the split second when the atrocity using that tool actually begins. Then a victim or mass victims are deprived of their right to life in the name of preserving the liberty of the few who want unfettered access to a killing tool being a higher right than the very right to life by all.

Your individual rights argument is so weak and absurd that you must accuse those who oppose you even by minor degree of being communists.

And you are a fraud because if individual possession and unfettered access to killing tools is higher than the right to life itself, then you must demand access to all and any killing tool ever invented. But you shy away from such a demand because you are a fraud. You’ve become increasingly absurd and obsessed about guns over the decades. You consent to not having access and possession, not bearing most arms, such as an attack helicopter or plastic explosives to blow up the bridge leading to your town before the commies can cross to kill and oppress you.

Your highest and most sacred  “gun” right that is higher and more sacred than the very right to life of a ten year old, stops at a very low threshold of “human killing” tools available thanks to modern technology.

Your sacred right is limited and you have consented to the limit. Therefore you have consented already that society has a right to draw the lines on access and to regulate human killing tools in the hands of the individual.  And most in society want the line moved closer to something more protective of ten year olds in school who have a right to grow up. Its not a Commie plot.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 30, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It's easy to do, just petition for a constitutional amendment


Society already has the right to limit and restrict access and regulate firearms and weapons developed for combat  in a war. No constitutional amendment needed. We just need to fire ten Republican Senators.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 30, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You are defending the right for every citizen, never convicted of a major crime, to commit atrocities with whatever weapon of war or means of killing humans that humankind can devise. Of course that right goes up to the split second when the atrocity using that tool actually begins. Then a victim or mass victims are deprived of their right to life in the name of preserving the liberty of the few who want unfettered access to a killing tool being a higher right than the very right to life by all.
> 
> Your individual rights argument is so weak and absurd that you must accuse those who oppose you even by minor degree of being communists.
> 
> ...



Anybody that votes Democrat is a comme, they're just too stupid to know it.  To support my point, I invite you to visit the US Communist party website.  Read their agenda.  There are very few differences between theirs and the Democrat party.  Read their praises of candidates like Hillary and DumBama.  Read their disdain of candidates like Trump and yes, even Romney or McCain.  

You see if the devil comes for your soul, he will not have a cape, fiery red skin, and a tail with an arrowhead at the end.  He would likely be a well dressed man, somebody you'd expect on wall street, very coy and of course never tell you why he's there. 

I don't defend people who commit heinous crimes.  In fact I have always proposed stronger prison sentences for them, unlike commie cities that give them a slap on the hand.  This is especially true of crimes committed with guns.  But I also don't believe in punishing everybody for the actions of a few.  It's as stupid as restricting good drivers because of people who constantly drive drunk.  We don't punish the good motorists, we provide harsher penalties for people that drive drunk or high.  Because of that, we've greatly reduced intoxicated driving over the past few decades.  In fact many people don't even go out on New Years Eve anymore unless they are going to a restaurant or a party at a hotel where they have a room waiting for them.

Every gun is a killing tool.  That's what they are designed for.  To think if you ban one killing tool it makes all the others less deadly is a stupid conclusion to make.  So it's not a choice between allowing kids to be killed over Constitutional rights, it's taking safeguards to protect ourselves and children while protecting those rights at the same time.  

Now if you want to address these gun murder problems by giving the offenders much harsher sentences, count me in.  If you want to see less children killed by giving federal money to schools for more protection, you have my vote.  But I will never support being guilty until proving your innocence, or allowing one or more individuals to make the choice whether you can own a firearm or not base don their unprofssional opinion of an individual.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 30, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Society already has the right to limit and restrict access and regulate firearms and weapons developed for combat  in a war. No constitutional amendment needed. We just need to fire ten Republican Senators.



You can fire all the Senators you want.  What firearm do we have that was developed for war that we use today?  Anybody in the military will tell you AR's and AK's are never used in war or even training.  There are plenty of semi-automatic handguns that can do just as much damage, it's just they don't look as scary.  So what happens when you restrict those and find out it was fruitless?  The next step would be to go after those handguns.  

I wish Trump would be President again, and this time make a bet with your leftist anti-gun politicians:  We will make these restrictions you've been preaching about, but if they don't greatly reduce gun violence and mass shootings in five years, we remove all restrictions and you never bring it up again. Do you really think any commie would make that bet?  Of course not, because even they know it's bullshit.


----------



## Care4all (May 30, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> There he goes again. Using the tragedy of dead kids for political grandstanding.  What an asshole!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you think the NRA gun lobbyists have no influence on !egislators, or governors?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 30, 2022)

Care4all said:


> Do you think the NRA gun lobbyists have no influence on !egislators, or governors?



No they don't because the NRA contributed something like 2 million bucks to reps that supported the 2nd Amendment last year.  In comparison to other groups, that's like pissing on a house fire.  

Reps work to get the vote of the people which many are pro 2nd amendment.  Even in my state the Democrat governor signed our CCW bill because he knew what going against it meant for his future.  The NRA had nothing to do with it anymore than they had to do with the Texas school shooting or Buffalo mass murder.


----------



## Care4all (May 30, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> No they don't because the NRA contributed something like 2 million bucks to reps that supported the 2nd Amendment last year.  In comparison to other groups, that's like pissing on a house fire.
> 
> Reps work to get the vote of the people which many are pro 2nd amendment.  Even in my state the Democrat governor signed our CCW bill because he knew what going against it meant for his future.  The NRA had nothing to do with it anymore than they had to do with the Texas school shooting or Buffalo mass murder.


If you're in Ohio, your governor that signed it, was a Republican and not a democrat as you stated???









						NRA-ILA | NRA-Backed Constitutional Carry Signed in Ohio
					

NRA applauds Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine for signing Senate Bill 215, an NRA-backed bill allowing law-abiding gun owners to carry a firearm without a permit from or paying a tax to the state.




					www.nraila.org
				




The majority of Americans believe there should be background checks and other regulations, even citizens that are pro 2nd amendment and own guns.....

The NRA wrote the new easy peasy gun laws in Texas and in Ohio...don't fool yourself in to believing they had no influence...









						NRA-ILA | NRA Leadership joins Texas Governor for Special Signing Ceremony of Landmark Bill at The Alamo
					

NRA Leadership including Wayne LaPierre joined Texas Gov. Greg Abbott at the Alamo for the ceremonial signing of an NRA-backed constitutional carry bill.




					www.nraila.org


----------



## Leo123 (May 30, 2022)

Care4all said:


> Do you think the NRA gun lobbyists have no influence on !egislators, or governors?


Not much as compared to abortion lobbies and environmental lobbies.   The NRA basically teaches gun safety.  You seem grossly misinformed.


----------



## Care4all (May 30, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> Not much as compared to abortion lobbies and environmental lobbies.   The NRA basically teaches gun safety.  You seem grossly misinformed.


It may have begun that way but now, the NRA is the lobbyist for gun MANUFACTURERS.


----------



## Leo123 (May 30, 2022)

Care4all said:


> It may have begun that way but now, the NRA is the lobbyist for gun MANUFACTURERS.



There are lobbyists for every business and manufacturer.   What's the problem?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 30, 2022)

Care4all said:


> If you're in Ohio, your governor that signed it, was a Republican and not a democrat as you stated???
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The NRA represents gun owners.  Of course they lobby for our goals.  Doesn't every group?  But the little amount of cash they hand out compared to other groups is almost laughable to think the representatives are doing so on their behalf.  Our state is a pro self-defense state.  It's political suicide for any member to go against gun owners. 

And BTW, my mistake.  I meant to say it was a Democrat Governor who signed our Castle Doctrine into law, which also extends to our vehicles.  According to our laws, breaking into my car is no different than breaking into my home.  Doing so gives me the legal right to use deadly force.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 30, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> gives me the legal right to use deadly force.


So maybe your dream will come true of killing somebody someday if somebody mistakes your car for his  own and walks up and puts their hand on your door handle. You can kill ‘em


----------



## Leo123 (May 30, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The NRA represents gun owners.  Of course they lobby for our goals.  Doesn't every group?  But the little amount of cash they hand out compared to other groups is almost laughable to think the representatives are doing so on their behalf.  Our state is a pro self-defense state.  It's political suicide for any member to go against gun owners.
> 
> And BTW, my mistake.  I meant to say it was a Democrat Governor who signed our Castle Doctrine into law, which also extends to our vehicles.  According to our laws, breaking into my car is no different than breaking into my home.  Doing so gives me the legal right to use deadly force.


Yes, there hundreds of lobby groups.  The NRA isn’t even on the list of the most prominent.


----------



## Jim H - VA USA (May 30, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> There he goes again. Using the tragedy of dead kids for political grandstanding.  What an asshole!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Today, he hinted that he wants to go after high *caliber* ammo.

He says, "'The .22 caliber bullet will lodge in the lungs and we can get it out. A 9mm bullet blows the lung out of the body,' he said. 'The idea of a high caliber weapon, there is no rationale for it in terms of self-protection, hunting."

2:00 mark in this video...





__





						Loading…
					





					videos.dailymail.co.uk
				




"The Constitution, the Second Amendment was never absolute. You couldn’t buy a cannon when the Second Amendment was passed," he says.









						Biden calls McConnell a 'rational' Republican on gun reform issues
					

It comes against the backdrop of hope that the Senate can come to a compromise - after Senate GOP Leader Mitch McConnell directed Texas Senator John Cornyn to work with Democrats on it.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## Leo123 (May 30, 2022)

Jim H - VA USA said:


> Today, he hinted that he wants to go after high *caliber* ammo.
> 
> He says, "'The .22 caliber bullet will lodge in the lungs and we can get it out. A 9mm bullet blows the lung out of the body,' he said. 'The idea of a high caliber weapon, there is no rationale for it in terms of self-protection, hunting."
> 
> ...


I wonder if Biden knows that an AR-15 is just a glorified .22.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 30, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> So maybe your dream will come true of killing somebody someday if somebody mistakes your car for his  own and walks up and puts their hand on your door handle. You can kill ‘em



That's about the dumbest statement I read this year.  Nobody wants to kill another human outside of criminals who could care less about life.  When I strap on my gun, I pray I don't have to use it.  Why do you think they put police officers on leave after they're involved in a shooting?  

My father never talks about the Korean war in regards to death.  The only thing he told us is that killing another human being is a feeling nobody ever wants to feel.  It's not like television "bang, oww" it's a feeling that changes your life forever even if the person you killed was trying to kill you.  

It's also well documented that CCW holders are the most law abiding citizens in the country, including police officers.  We Americans use our firearms for self-defense, to defend others, or to stop a crime between 1 and 4 million times a year depending on who's statistics you use.  Very few of those situations ever involved shooting somebody prematurely or by accident.  If fact in most cases the mere brandishing of a firearm stops a criminal in their tracks and we don't have to fire the gun once.


----------



## Flash (May 30, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> So maybe your dream will come true of killing somebody someday if somebody mistakes your car for his  own and walks up and puts their hand on your door handle. You can kill ‘em


Breaking into a vehicle or home is not a mistake.  It is a vicious criminal activity.

No wonder crime is so high in Democrat controlled cities.  You Moon Bats are too sorry to hold the assholes accountable.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 30, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Nobody wants to kill another human


Salvador Ramos was not a criminal and no one knew he wanted to kill ten year olds when he went to the store that sold him two assault rifles legally - no questions asked - what is the need  - doesn’t matter - he had a right - no one’s right to life should get in the way of what he desires to possess. 

So it’s on you - You are lying to every ten year old who goes to school.  You have decided that no one wants to kill human beings when they buy an assault rifle if not having a criminal record but you say it with  no guarantees. You are therefore a fraud and a liar in which 10 year old kids lose and you get to play with your toys but ten year olds don’t get to play with anything at all.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 30, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Salvador Ramos was not a criminal and no one knew he wanted to kill ten year olds when he went to the store that sold him two assault rifles legally - no questions asked - what is the need  - doesn’t matter - he had a right - no one’s right to life should get in the way of what he desires to possess.
> 
> So it’s on you - You are lying to every ten year old who goes to school.  You have decided that no one wants to kill human beings when they buy an assault rifle if not having a criminal record but you say it with  no guarantees. You are therefore a fraud and a liar in which 10 year old kids lose and you get to play with your toys but ten year olds don’t get to play with anything at all.



Ramos became a criminal the second he pulled that trigger.  Yes, he had the right to legally buy the gun he used, so WTF do you want us to do about that?  The gun didn't walk out of his bedroom and kill kids, he did that.  

There are no guarantees with anything in life.  There are no guarantees that people who bought cars last week will not get intoxicated and kill somebody.  There are no guarantees that the guy who bought a hammer at the hardware store will not use it to kill his wife.  There are no guarantees that a guy who got hooked up to the internet today will not use it to lure children to his car to rape or kill them.  There are no guarantees.  

But it's impossible to create this magic bubble you have in your mind that will protect all of us from evil.  There were evil people a thousand years ago and there will be evil people in a thousand years from today.  It's just something we have to deal with.  All we can do is protect ourselves the best we can against evil and hope to reduce as much of it as possible.  That's the reason a good percentage of us want firearms in our home and on person when out in public; because there is no way to eliminate evil.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 30, 2022)

Flash said:


> No wonder crime is so high in Democrat controlled cities.



Why is murder highest per capita in bright red Trump states? 

In all, eight of the 10 states with the highest per-capita murder rates in the country voted for Trump in 2020. None of those eight states have been carried by a Democrat since 1996. Mississippi had by far the highest murder rate at 20.5 murders per 100,000 residents, followed by Louisiana at 15.79. Alabama, Kentucky and Missouri all had murder rates higher than 14 per 100,000 compared to a national average of 6.5.​







						GOP blames Dems for crime but murder rates far higher in red states
					

Eight of the 10 states with the highest murder rates in 2020 voted for Donald Trump.




					www.salon.com
				


The only states that voted for Biden to appear in the top 10 are Georgia — a longtime Republican stronghold that went blue by a tiny margin in 2020 — and New Mexico.​


----------



## Flash (May 30, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Why is murder highest per capita in bright red Trump states?
> 
> In all, eight of the 10 states with the highest per-capita murder rates in the country voted for Trump in 2020. None of those eight states have been carried by a Democrat since 1996. Mississippi had by far the highest murder rate at 20.5 murders per 100,000 residents, followed by Louisiana at 15.79. Alabama, Kentucky and Missouri all had murder rates higher than 14 per 100,000 compared to a national average of 6.5.​
> 
> ...


There is no such thing as red states and blue states.  That is an invention of USA Today.

It is America v the Democrat controlled big city shitholes.

Like Atlanta in Georgia, Houston in Texas, Memphis in Tennessee, etc.

Those cites with Democrat leadership are where all that crime takes place.

Of course the King of Crime is Chicago.  Blue city in what is called a blue state.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 30, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Ramos became a criminal the second he pulled that trigger. Yes, he had the right to legally buy the gun he used, so WTF do you want us to do about that?



It’s easy. Do not make it so damned easy for anybody anywhere in the United States to buy an assault rifle without a two year probation period to prove he has the right to play with any type of military use firearm. All you longer term gun owners keep what already have. Proper probationary deeper investigation applications will apply to only first time buyers of a gun.

If there is a definite definable need of self or property protection then each case can be reviewed on an independent basis. Say someone living on a ranch and their father died and one of the sons is taking over. He gets credit for his father’s history of being a law abiding citizen with a gun. Sensible people can make something like this work.

You can’t but since you cannot guarantee in any way that first time gun buyers who choose assault rifles as their first gun toy to play with won’t be committing mass murders with them, no one should pay attention to you. You are not sensible.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 30, 2022)

Ignorance for you must be bliss. They also called the Eight out of 10 states with the highest murders per capita are states that Trump won. Nice way to reply with a non-issue.


----------



## Jim H - VA USA (May 30, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Salvador Ramos was not a criminal and no one knew he wanted to kill ten year olds when he went to the store that sold him two assault rifles legally - no questions asked - what is the need  - doesn’t matter - he had a right - no one’s right to life should get in the way of what he desires to possess.
> 
> So it’s on you - You are lying to every ten year old who goes to school.  You have decided that no one wants to kill human beings when they buy an assault rifle if not having a criminal record but you say it with  no guarantees. You are therefore a fraud and a liar in which 10 year old kids lose and you get to play with your toys but ten year olds don’t get to play with anything at all.



In 2018, he was reportedly arrested for planning a Columbine-type attack at a the Uvalde Middle school....









						Two teens arrested in 'mass casualty' plot in 2018 targeting a Uvalde middle school
					

One of the students had numerous writings and drawings which depicted weapons capable of causing mass destruction. He wrote about being "God-like" and killing police and other persons.




					www.kens5.com
				












						Salvador Ramos Arrested 4 Years Ago for Planning Attack at 18—Texas Rep.
					

Texas Rep. Tony Gonzales claimed the Uvalde shooter had been arrested for planning a school shooting once he turned 18.




					www.newsweek.com


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 30, 2022)

Jim H - VA USA said:


> In 2018, he was reportedly arrested for planning a Columbine-type attack at a the Uvalde Middle school....


You are just another NRA evil Republican getting sucked up into right wing lies. You need to read the story you posted. It was not Ramos.


----------



## CommieKillingMommy (May 30, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> There he goes again. Using the tragedy of dead kids for political grandstanding.  What an asshole!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Biden blames everything for everything.


----------



## Jim H - VA USA (May 30, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You are just another NRA evil Republican getting sucked up into right wing lies. You need to read the story you posted. It was not Ramos.


Yes, I should have checked for updates before posting that *reported* info I originally posted on Thursday.

Thanks for letting me know it is disputed.  

FYI, I am not an NRA member, just a big supporter of the 2A and the right to defend oneself and one's family.  I am a Republican.  Probably nicer than most Dems, but perhaps your definition of "evil" is much different from mine.

Can you please explain to me why so many posters like yourself resort to name calling so quickly?  That seems to foreign to me.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 30, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> It’s easy. Do not make it so damned easy for anybody anywhere in the United States to buy an assault rifle without a two year probation period to prove he has the right to play with any type of military use firearm. All you longer term gun owners keep what already have. Proper probationary deeper investigation applications will apply to only first time buyers of a gun.
> 
> If there is a definite definable need of self or property protection then each case can be reviewed on an independent basis. Say someone living on a ranch and their father died and one of the sons is taking over. He gets credit for his father’s history of being a law abiding citizen with a gun. Sensible people can make something like this work.
> 
> You can’t but since you cannot guarantee in any way that first time gun buyers who choose assault rifles as their first gun toy to play with won’t be committing mass murders with them, no one should pay attention to you. You are not sensible.



I'm not following what you're saying. A two year probationary period of what? You mean after he buys a gun be on some sort of probation period or before he buys a gun?  

What you fail to understand are several things:  ARs are not military weapons, they never have been.  There is no such thing as an assault rifle.  It's a term the Communist party made up.  Goof balls can do nearly as much damage or the same damage with a handgun as they can an AR.  Handguns are readily available to most people legal or illegal.  There is not a law in the world they can write to stop that.  

Now, once you come to terms with the reality of guns in our country, only then you'll realize how unproductive banning AR's at any age are.  It won't stop one crazy person from a mass shooting, it won't stop one school shooting, it won't stop some mentally deficient person from going into a Walmart and shooting anybody he can hit.  Why?  Because guns don't shoot themselves.  Killers use guns to kill and they will kill no matter what if that's in their heart.


----------



## Issa (May 30, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I do bring facts.  I was a child in school in the 60's.  You could walk in or out of them through unlocked doors with no concern.  Nobody dreamed of going into a school and killing a bunch of innocent kids.  What changed?  We always had guns.  We always had violent television shows.  Westerns were very popular back then and a lot of that was shooting scenes.
> 
> What changed was our society.  The commies pushed for single-parent homes during the women's lib movement to try and buy votes.  We took God out of school and nearly all of society itself.  We stopped having people committed because it was a constitutional violation.  I remember in the 70's.  Geraldo had his own weekly television show.  He's the one that started the movement institutions were holding people that committed no crimes.  It started a movement that led to us opening up all those locked doors and letting those people out, and we haven't locked them up since.  Thanks to that, homeless are roaming our streets by the tens of thousands.  Liberal cities give them syringes so they can shoot themselves up with drugs safely.  Crazy people are getting guns and there is absolutely nothing we can do to them until they use one in a crime.
> 
> We had our faults in the earlier days, but not the problems we have today mostly thanks to the liberals.


You always had disregard for human life it just changed from white serial Killers, Italian and Irish  mafias to what we see now.  America was always a violent society but you try to paint it differently. 

You didn't have school shootings but you hate serial kidnappers and rapists.


----------



## scruffy (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I want to make it impossible for an 18-year-old to buy an assault rifle and high velocity ammunition with 30 round clips without a damn good reason for why he needs one for starters.


That's because you're a dumb deluded leftard.

You can NOT make it impossible.

You don't have that power 

Through legislation or any other way.


----------



## scruffy (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> So maybe your dream will come true of killing somebody someday if somebody mistakes your car for his  own and walks up and puts their hand on your door handle. You can kill ‘em


Oh shut up, leftist troll.

Fucking door handles. What a moron.

I tire of these leftard dickheads.


----------



## zaangalewa (May 31, 2022)

Weatherman2020 said:


> You can be stupider than a brick sometimes.


What about if you would just some simple say what you think you have to say without to refer to eccentric absurdities?


----------



## Lurchadams (May 31, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> There he goes again. Using the tragedy of dead kids for political grandstanding.  What an asshole!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He's right.  It's the guns, stupid!  Great job, Joe!


----------



## zaangalewa (May 31, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> There are lobbyists for every business and manufacturer.   What's the problem?



Weapons are an ideology in the USA - that's the problem. Also when everyone will always carry a gun - this will not solve problems in context "violent society" but cause only more problems in this context. Guns are like walls in the communication between people. And behind this walls live poor lonesome strangers - always ready to defend with brutal violence their own self made prisons.


----------



## toobfreak (May 31, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> Biden blames Texas school shooting on ‘gun lobby,’ demands new gun laws​



Just think, in doing so, Biden is saying:

The "gun lobby" has more power than Congress!  Apparently they can stop the entire Congress!
That if not for the gun lobby, Biden would ban all guns tomorrow thus doing away with the "gun problem" walking right over the Second Amendment!  The "gun lobby," not the LAW is what is stopping Joe from ending all gun crime!


----------



## Leo123 (May 31, 2022)

toobfreak said:


> Just think, in doing so, Biden is saying:
> 
> The "gun lobby" has more power than Congress!  Apparently they can stop the entire Congress!
> That if not for the gun lobby, Biden would ban all guns tomorrow thus doing away with the "gun problem" walking right over the Second Amendment!  The "gun lobby," not the LAW is what is stopping Joe from ending all gun crime!


Biden is a brain dead idiot.   2 brain surgeries, 78 years old, has to read everything, and is declining in his ability to use and remember words.   Constantly slurring and meandering from the subject.


----------



## Sunsettommy (May 31, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Just saying if he didn't buy the weapon(s) until he was 18, to be legal, this shooting might not have happened for 3 more years if at all, as there is some more maturity at 21 than 18, anyway.



If the State and Federal government did their jobs, he would have FAILED the Background Check.


----------



## Leo123 (May 31, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Weapons are an ideology in the USA - that's the problem. Also when everyone will always carry a gun - this will not solve problems in context "violent society" but cause only more problems in this context. Guns are like walls in the communication between people. And behind this walls live poor lonesome strangers - always ready to defend with brutal violence their own self made prisons.


Total bullshit.   If everyone is armed, perps (who are cowards) will stand down.   In fact, they won't even try because anyone can render them room temperature.   Guns provide a defensive wall between law abiding citizens and criminal perps.


----------



## Weatherman2020 (May 31, 2022)

Sunsettommy said:


> If the State and Federal government did their jobs, he would have FAILED the Background Check.


For what?  What did the State and Fed fail at seeing in their data?


----------



## Leo123 (May 31, 2022)

Learn about guns, how they work, etc.  Shoot rhem,  get used  to them.  They are your only defense.


----------



## Weatherman2020 (May 31, 2022)




----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Jim H - VA USA said:


> FYI, I am not an NRA member, just a big supporter of the 2A and the right to defend oneself and one's family. I am a Republican. Probably nicer than most Dems,


I am not an NRA member as well. I fully support the second amendment. Where the line is drawn on that freedom when it overrides the freedom to live about 10-year-old child is not compatible with your Republican no limit indifference to the gun owner ideology and culture of death that is causing are Black people in churches in supermarkets and children in classrooms.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> Learn about guns, how they work, etc. Shoot rhem, get used to them. They are your only defense.


You are absurd. You are amoral. 19 ten year olds and two of their teachers had absolutely no defense against one of your “Championed” human killing tools. You fault little children for not knowing how guns work. GFY


----------



## Weatherman2020 (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> It’s easy. Do not make it so damned easy for anybody anywhere in the United States to buy an assault rifle without a two year probation period to prove he has the right to play with any type of military use firearm. All you longer term gun owners keep what already have. Proper probationary deeper investigation applications will apply to only first time buyers of a gun.
> 
> If there is a definite definable need of self or property protection then each case can be reviewed on an independent basis. Say someone living on a ranch and their father died and one of the sons is taking over. He gets credit for his father’s history of being a law abiding citizen with a gun. Sensible people can make something like this work.
> 
> You can’t but since you cannot guarantee in any way that first time gun buyers who choose assault rifles as their first gun toy to play with won’t be committing mass murders with them, no one should pay attention to you. You are not sensible.


There’s more guns in America than humans. How’s the governments war on drugs going?

It’s time to address the REAL elephants in the room, which includes fractured families, drugs, death penalty, faith, paroling, violence in entertainment, and mental health issues.


----------



## Weatherman2020 (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You are absurd. You are amoral. 1910 year olds and two of their teachers and absolutely no defense against one of yours. No your fault little children for not knowing how guns work. GFY


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Weatherman2020 said:


> faith


F you and your “faith” solution. That is such bogus bullshit. Even your own effing solutions “sign” contains the word “may” .
because you and the NRA and 49 evil Republican US Senators cannot get over $ protecting the shooter over the kids right to life of 10 year old school kids.

1.561 children have been killed by guns in 2021.

Your message Weatherman2020 to American kids . OK kids, just so you know gun shooters have a right to be able to shoot you with really big guns and really deadly ammo. If a shooter man decides to attack your school we the religious godly perfect family American people who worship guns that the NRA mommies and daddies “may“ be able to protect you. Maybe not? That is a chance that you have to take kids because the right to shoot 10 year old kids with the most powerful and deadly simulated weapons of war available cannot be limited to protect you. If you think you’re right to life is more important than a gun hobbyists right to own a big bad nasty gun then you are our enemy and you deserve what you get. But, maybe we will protect you.


----------



## Weatherman2020 (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> F you and your “faith” solution. That is such bogus bullshit. Even your own effing solutions “sign” contains the word “may” .
> because you and the NRA and 49 evil Republican US Senators cannot get over $ protecting the shooter over the kids right to life of 10 year old school kids.
> 
> 1.561 children have been killed by guns in 2021.
> ...


How’s your governments war on drugs going?
School shootings were extremely rare prior to God being removed from the classrooms in 64.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Weatherman2020 said:


> rare prior to God being removed



This is one of the sickest arguments that is coming from the evil NRA Republicans  Who believe it is more important for an American to be able to own an assault rifle than it is to protect 10 year old kid l’e in a classrooms life


----------



## Lurchadams (May 31, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> Yep, murders will murder, there were no 'good guns' to stop him.


Yep, but we can get those AR's off the street and we will.


----------



## Lurchadams (May 31, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> Public schools should have a government mandate to provide 1-point entries and armed security in all schools.  Public, charter or private.


No the problem is the ARs on the street.  We need those off now. The problem is the guns.


----------



## Lurchadams (May 31, 2022)

Weatherman2020 said:


> How’s your governments war on drugs going?
> School shootings were extremely rare prior to God being removed from the classrooms in 64.


21 Funerals.  Your guilt must be all-consuming.

Good.


----------



## Weatherman2020 (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> This is one of the sickest arguments that is coming from the evil NRA Republicans  Who believe it is more important for an American to be able to own an assault rifle than it is to protect 10 year old kid l’e in a classrooms life


Facts are facts. 3 school mass murders in American history for almost 200 years. Then the 1960’s anti God pro drugs Leftards hit society. 

And now that you mention it, I need to join the NRA. Seems to be a good organization if you hate it. Thanks for the hat tip.


----------



## Lurchadams (May 31, 2022)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Facts are facts. 3 school mass murders in American history for almost 200 years. Then the 1960’s anti God pro drugs Leftards hit society.
> 
> And now that you mention it, I need to join the NRA. Seems to be a good organization if you hate it. Thanks for the hat tip.


LOL yes.  Guns are the problem.  Australia is a secular country, they took the guns off the street and mass shootings disapeared.  The problem is your precious guns you value more than the lives of our babies.

Shame on you.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> This is one of the sickest arguments that is coming from the evil NRA Republicans  Who believe it is more important for an American to be able to own an assault rifle than it is to protect 10 year old kid l’e in a classrooms life



No, it's just we're intelligent enough to realize if you remove the assault rifle it does absolutely no good.  We realize the instinct to kill doesn't come from the gun, it comes from the person.  Guns are inanimate objects and don't think for themselves.  

Leftist live in this fantasy land that if you ban AR's, all the mass shootings will magically stop.  Nobody will ever want to commit a mass shooting if they cant get an AR.  They will go from mentally insane to a law abiding citizen.


----------



## Blues Man (May 31, 2022)

Lurchadams said:


> Yep, but we can get those AR's off the street and we will.


No you won't


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 31, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Raising the age to buy his weapons to 21, same as hand guns would have at least put it off for 3 years.


You don't think his clueless grandparents would have bought one for him?


----------



## Weatherman2020 (May 31, 2022)

Lurchadams said:


> LOL yes.  Guns are the problem.  Australia is a secular country, they took the guns off the street and mass shootings disapeared.  The problem is your precious guns you value more than the lives of our babies.
> 
> Shame on you.


Plenty of guns in Australia. You validate my point that it’s a society issue. 

But if you choose to ignore facts, call me when the governments war on drugs is working.


----------



## Blues Man (May 31, 2022)

Lurchadams said:


> LOL yes.  Guns are the problem.  Australia is a secular country, they took the guns off the street and mass shootings disapeared.  The problem is your precious guns you value more than the lives of our babies.
> 
> Shame on you.


Australia and the US are very different countries


----------



## Lurchadams (May 31, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> No you won't


19 babies literally mutulated beyond recognition.  Hug your precious gun.  I hope it's keeping you warm at night while those parents bury what your guns left of their kids.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 31, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Let them go back to it.  The good stuff and good detonators are harder to get and take more skill to make it work right.


Yeah, that stopped the Boston Marathon bombers!    Dumbass!


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 31, 2022)

Lurchadams said:


> *19 babies literally mutulated beyond recognition.*  Hug your precious gun.  I hope it's keeping you warm at night while those parents bury what your guns left of their kids.



Why do you lie?


----------



## Blues Man (May 31, 2022)

Lurchadams said:


> 19 babies literally mutulated beyond recognition.  Hug your precious gun.  I hope it's keeping you warm at night while those parents bury what your guns left of their kids.


How would banning one type of rifle have stopped that?

And FYI my guns had nothing to do with any murders because I have had nothing to do with any murders.

Tell me do you drink alcohol?

If you do hug your precious bottle while all the people killed by alcohol are buried.


----------



## Weatherman2020 (May 31, 2022)

Lurchadams said:


> 19 babies literally mutulated beyond recognition.  Hug your precious gun.  I hope it's keeping you warm at night while those parents bury what your guns left of their kids.


Topic is guns, not abortions.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 31, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Except for the ones that saw him get out of his truck with his rifles.
> I live in a state, where to go into my granddaughter's school during school hours require somebody looking at a monitor to answer you ringing a bell to get in, same as the National Guard Headquarter, I once served at.  What is the matter with Texas, they do not take minimal precautions on their schools?


He got in because the staff knew him as his grandmother worked there.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 31, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> Public schools should have a government mandate to provide 1-point entries and armed security in all schools.  Public, charter or private.


Get your local school board to do just that.  My schools already have!


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 31, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Weapons are an ideology in the USA - that's the problem. Also when everyone will always carry a gun - this will not solve problems in context "violent society" but cause only more problems in this context.



So what's the better solution, disarm law abiding American citizens?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 31, 2022)

White 6 said:


> They are just what is out there and it is being confirmed by broadcast news.  If you don't like, don't look.


Your sources say he used an AR-15 in one, and may have had a rifle in the other.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> No, it's just we're intelligent enough to realize if you remove the assault rifle it does absolutely no good



 It is not intelligent or honest to state and make a claim to knowing absolute fact when you have no way of knowing if it is true or not. It is called lying. I You have no idea if removing the assault rifle we will do “no good”.


----------



## Weatherman2020 (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> It is not intelligent or honest to state and absolute fact that you have no way of knowing if it is true or not. It is called lying. I You have no idea if removing the assault rifle we will do “no good”.


There’s more guns in America than humans. How’s the governments war on drugs going?


----------



## Blues Man (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> It is not intelligent or honest to state and absolute fact that you have no way of knowing if it is true or not. It is called lying. I You have no idea if removing the assault rifle we will do “no good”.


Why would you think it would when there are plenty of other rifles that fire the same round available that will not be affected by any "assault" weapon ban?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 31, 2022)

Issa said:


> You always had disregard for human life it just changed from white serial Killers, Italian and Irish  mafias to what we see now.  America was always a violent society but you try to paint it differently.
> 
> You didn't have school shootings but you hate serial kidnappers and rapists.



I don't even know what the hell that means, but yes, some parts of our society are violent.  That's why it's important to have the tools to fight that violence.  You leftists live in this delusion that the way to battle evil is to disarm good people, and then confused when we can't follow that logic.  We in the real world understand the bad guys will never give up their guns.  We realize that police are only good after a crime is committed.  They are not there for our personal protection. 

So if you can give us a plan on how to disarm the bad guys only, let us know what that is.  We will try it out on recreational narcotics first to see if it works.  How much you want to bet that it doesn't?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> It is not intelligent or honest to state and make a claim to knowing absolute fact when you have no way of knowing if it is true or not. It is called lying. I You have no idea if removing the assault rifle we will do “no good”.



Wait a minute, what do you think?  Do you actually believe that the rifle is what makes people kill; that without them, you can turn a cold blooded killer into a law abiding citizen?  Is that what you really believe?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 31, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Look dumb ass, it is what is out there. It is what is being reported on national news.  You want better?  Go get it, but both mentioned a rifle.  If it was an AR as I heard the Senator from Texas who was briefed by the Texas Rangers, than of the rifle and when he purchased.  I don't particularly care if it was something more or less exotic than an AR, not that I consider an AR exotic.  I built mine from interchangeable parts ordered from four or five different manufacturers and 3 different suppliers with minimal tools, minimal effort and if function checked perfectly at first assembly.  You would call it a _ghoste gun .  _I call it custom to my skills and use.  You are bitchin because i relay the most accurate info available, while we are on a message board where partisan assholes will intentionally swear to outright lies and proven untruths.  You might as well get off it.  I will honestly post what I post, and there isn't a damn thing you can do about except call me childish names as if you were a card-carrying trump republican, so fK Off.



Does your lower receiver have a serial number?  If it does, that is all that is required.

If it doesn't and you get caught, enjoy your time in a cell with Bubba!


----------



## Weatherman2020 (May 31, 2022)

Issa said:


> You always had disregard for human life it just changed from white serial Killers, Italian and Irish  mafias to what we see now.  America was always a violent society but you try to paint it differently.
> 
> You didn't have school shootings but you hate serial kidnappers and rapists.


Maybe the government shouldn’t release over a hundred thousand violent felons from prison early if the concern is public safety???


----------



## Blues Man (May 31, 2022)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Maybe the government shouldn’t release over a hundred thousand violent felons from prison early if the concern is public safety???


Or routinely drop gun charges in plea deals


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 31, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> The sooner Congress scrap the 2nd, the sooner America can start to sort out the gun problem


Hey dickhead!  That's what you get for being a foreigner!  Congress cannot scrap the second. It takes the states to approve any amendments.  Tat isn't happening!


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Do you actually believe that the rifle is what makes people kill; that without them, you can turn a cold blooded killer into a law abiding citizen?


 No. I do not believe that at all.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

You voted for a president who lost his bid to stay in office for a second term. He refuses to concede that he lost. That is bad enough however there is the very harsh reality that your leader of your party fraudulently attempted to deny me the right to have my vote count for the 2020 presidential election. I am with 88 million others who voted for him to leave. BE FUCKING GONE.  Trump wanted to not count a single one of those votes. 

I take my citizenship and voting very seriously. I have a right that is fundamentally much higher an 18-year-old who wants to buy an assault rifle to shoot up schools and massacre second graders.

You are an accomplice to DJT’s plot to cast aside 88 million votes for Biden
 In order to allow 26 Republicans in the House of representatives to determine that it was him who won the election not Joe Biden. We are fortunate that Mike Pence stopped him.

Evil is a mild way to describe the rise of authoritarianism in the Republican Party under Donald Trump. Even an attempt to destroy our democracy is evil

As far as I know you still support the one political party that tried to cancel my vote in the 2020 election so Trump could stay in power You are therefore an accomplice and are therefore evil.


Jim H - VA USA said:


> I am a Republican. Probably nicer than most Dems,


You would’ve taken Trump for four more years if he had succeeded by denying my vote being counted. You are not nice. You are an accomplice to the crime and destruction of democracy. You are therefore evil. Get yourself de- programmed and straightened out and denounce what Donald Trump did to America after he lost


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> It is not intelligent or honest to state and make a claim to knowing absolute fact when you have no way of knowing if it is true or not. It is called lying. I You have no idea if removing the assault rifle we will do “no good”.


Of course we do.  You don't need an "Assault Rifle" to shoot up a school full of unarmed women and children.

The rifle is just a tool, it has no power over the user.  They don't call out to us telling us to grab them to run out and shoot people.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> F you and your “faith” solution. That is such bogus bullshit. Even your own effing solutions “sign” contains the word “may” .
> because you and the NRA and 49 evil Republican US Senators cannot get over $ protecting the shooter over the kids right to life of 10 year old school kids.
> 
> 1.561 children have been killed by guns in 2021.
> ...


How many schools displaying such signage have subsequently suffered a school shooting?


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> The rifle is just a tool, it has no power over the user.


It’s more than a tool. There is a psychological factor here understanding that the weapon of war aspect of the AR15 is a major influence on the way it’s a big and a highly profitable seller.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> It’s more than a tool. There is a psychological factor here understanding that the weapon of war aspect of the AR15 is a major influence on the way it’s a big and a highly profitable seller.


The "Weapon of War" moniker is fabricated bs.  No country on earth is issuing semi auto AR's as a battle rifle.

You are a clueless boob peddling BS.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> It’s more than a tool. There is a psychological factor here understanding that the weapon of war aspect of the AR15 is a major influence on the way it’s a big and a highly profitable seller.



I've heard plenty of psychologists discuss this school shooting since it took place, and not one of them claimed that the kind of weapon influences a crazy person to do something like this.  They brought up his seclusion, his strange ways, his social media posts, his family life, but nothing about an AR being responsible for what he did.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> How many schools displaying such signage have subsequently suffered a school shooting?


It does not matter at all. The point was that the word is “may” protect the children. So you’re accepting the children are left defenseless because you want the gun manufacturers to be able to sell assault rifles to anyone who wants one with just about zero amount of a background check.

Your argument is actually supportive of banning the assault rifle because you say other guns can fire just the same.. So due to their appeal to these young shooters and white supremacist types they should be banned because as you say there are other types of firearms that do the same job. But they don’t look like some kind of macho Rambo gun that appeals to young first time gun buyers


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I've heard plenty of psychologists


NRA psychologists do not count. They are evil too. They lie to protect the gun owners rights over the rights of a second grader to live a full and productive life.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> NRA psychologists do not count. They are evil too. They lie to protect the gun owners rights over the rights of a second grader to live a full and productive life.



WTF is an NRA psychologist?  I never heard of one before.  So that's your new line of attack, anybody that disagrees with you must have an ulterior motive, but anybody that agrees with you doesn't?


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I've heard plenty of psychologists discuss this school shooting since it took place,


You arexl the victim of National Rifle Association and gun manufacturers marketing psychology. Your opinion is worthless.

Over the past two decades -- a period in which more than 200 million guns hit the US market -- the country has shifted from "Gun Culture 1.0," where guns were for sport and hunting, to "Gun Culture 2.0" where many Americans see them as essential to protect their homes and families.​​







						Man who teaches teens how to properly shoot rifles names the 'one gun law we should change right away'
					

In an op-ed for The Charlotte Observer, the coach for the Charlotte Junior Rifle Team, Evan Bille, said that he worries every day that the shooting skills he teaches young people could be used to carry out a school shooting. According to Billie, one way to prevent mass shootings would be to...




					www.rawstory.com
				


​That shift has been driven heavily by advertising by the nearly $20 billion gun industry that has tapped fears of crime and racial upheaval, according to Ryan Busse, a former industry executive.​​Recent mass murders "are the byproduct of a gun industry business model designed to profit from increasing hatred, fear, and conspiracy," Busse wrote this week in the online magazine The Bulwark.​


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> WTF is an NRA psychologist? I


Whoever a gun wacko like yourself heard from  or listens to


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> anybody that disagrees with you must have an ulterior motive, but anybody that agrees with you doesn't?



Anyone that does not agree that 10 year olds in classrooms have a higher right to life than a fabricated consumer right to someone who wants to buy an assault rifle without explaining what he needs it for and proving that he does not intend to use it for murder in the next month or two.


----------



## White 6 (May 31, 2022)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> You don't think his clueless grandparents would have bought one for him?


It is not the question.  The fact is, they did not.  We are not talking "what if" or "what could have", as there is no benefit to injecting a reality gap into what is known.  The circumstance and actions are the circumstances and actions.


----------



## White 6 (May 31, 2022)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Yeah, that stopped the Boston Marathon bombers!    Dumbass!


No matter how you slice it, bombs are more technically demand, and harder to get, make, etc, than going to the local gun shop and are simpler to operation while providing greater flexibility and adaptability to changing situations.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> once you come to terms with the reality of guns in our country, only then you'll realize how unproductive banning AR's at any age are. I



The  AR-15 is a central political organizing symbol among Trump voters whether every dumbass Redneck Trump voter owns one or not.  So when they are used in horrifying mass shootings, yes all dumbass Redneck Trump voters should be identified with the mass shooters.


----------



## White 6 (May 31, 2022)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> He got in because the staff knew him as his grandmother worked there.


No.  He got in with the ease he did, because Security SOP not followed.  Door was not left open because somebody knew grandma, so he was invited in to an elementary school for some nebulous familiarity reason.


----------



## White 6 (May 31, 2022)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Does your lower receiver have a serial number?  If it does, that is all that is required.
> 
> If it doesn't and you get caught, enjoy your time in a cell with Bubba!


That is not quite how that works.  If I take it to a regulated gunsmith or gun store for repair or sale, it will have to have one before it leaves is the last legislation I heard discussed.  Lower receiver does not help identify a weapon used in a crime from analysis of the slug.  That is more about the upper receiver/barrel assembly imparting distinctive marks on the projectile fired.


----------



## M14 Shooter (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> The  AR-15 is a central political organizing symbol among Trump voters whether every dumbass Redneck Trump voter owns one or not.  So when they are used in horrifying mass shootings, yes all dumbass Redneck Trump voters should be identified with the mass shooters.


Thank you for demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry, and irrational fear.


----------



## Leo123 (May 31, 2022)

Lurchadams said:


> No the problem is the ARs on the street.  We need those off now. The problem is the guns.


Never happen.  No, guns are inanimate objects.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> The AR-15 is a central political organizing symbol among Trump voters whether every dumbass Redneck Trump voter owns one or not. So when they are used in horrifying mass shootings, yes all dumbass Redneck Trump voters should be identified with the mass shooters.



Identified as what, Americans exercising their constitutional rights?  How awful. 

Our side didn't politicize guns, your side did.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Anyone that does not agree that 10 year olds in classrooms have a higher right to life than a fabricated consumer right to someone who wants to buy an assault rifle without explaining what he needs it for and proving that he does not intend to use it for murder in the next month or two.



Again with this fantasy that if people couldn't buy an AR, they would not go on a killing spree.  

So let me ask:  A person (for whatever reason) is not allowed to have an AR, goes to a school and kills 19 kids with a handgun.  Would that make you any happier?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You arexl the victim of National Rifle Association and gun manufacturers marketing psychology. Your opinion is worthless.
> 
> Over the past two decades -- a period in which more than 200 million guns hit the US market -- the country has shifted from "Gun Culture 1.0," where guns were for sport and hunting, to "Gun Culture 2.0" where many Americans see them as essential to protect their homes and families.​​
> 
> ...



You have no idea WTF you're talking about.  For the most part guns are not advertised anywhere but in gun stores or gun magazines.  The NRA has never been an organization that tells it's members what to do, we tell them what our interests are.  When they promote the use of guns, it's to fellow members that have likely owned them for years and even generations.  

The Communists look at the NRA like an exterminator looks at the queen bee of a nest he needs to destroy.  If you don't kill the queen, killing the other bees are a waste of time and product.  It's the same thing with Walmart.  Walmart pays their workers the same or better than any non-skilled labor.  It's just that they are the largest employer and have no unions.


----------



## Captain Caveman (May 31, 2022)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Hey dickhead!  That's what you get for being a foreigner!  Congress cannot scrap the second. It takes the states to approve any amendments.  Tat isn't happening!


Have a read, semen breath -

Constitutional Amendment Process 

PS - unless you're a Native American, you're a foreigner too, a descendant of an immigrant. Probably an illegal one at that


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 31, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Have a read, semen breath -
> 
> Constitutional Amendment Process
> 
> PS - unless you're a Native American, you're a foreigner too, a descendant of an immigrant. Probably an illegal one at that


OK, Captain Dickhead!  I taught the US Constitution for 21 years.  When did you pass your US citizenship test or did you run to Canada because of all of the guns that were out to kill you?


----------



## Captain Caveman (May 31, 2022)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> OK, Captain Dickhead!  I taught the US Constitution for 21 years.  When did you pass your US citizenship test or did you run to Canada because of all of the guns that were out to kill you?


Well semen breath, I reside in the UK were you can only dream of low gun crime. I've been to the US several times but, the US is no longer on my visit list.


----------



## Sandy Shanks (May 31, 2022)

ABC reports, "Former Trump adviser         Peter Navarro revealed in a court filing Tuesday afternoon that he has been subpoenaed to appear before a grand jury this week as part of the Justice Department's sprawling probe into         the deadly insurrection at the U.S. Capitol.

"Navarro, who was a trade adviser to then-President Donald Trump, said he was served by the FBI at his Washington, D.C., house last week. *The subpoena is the first known instance of prosecutors seeking testimony from someone who worked in the Trump White House as they investigate         the worst attack on the Capitol in two centuries.*"

While that is happening Republicans have expressed confidence in recapturing Congress and certain governor races in November.

CNN reports, "Momentous and tragic events are driving public attention back toward abortion rights and gun control, two issues that *keyed the Democratic advance in well-educated suburbs over the past generation.* 

"Republicans have consolidated a commanding grip on rural and small-town communities filled with culturally conservative blue-collar voters who generally oppose both legal abortion and most restrictions on gun ownership.

"In mirror image, Democrats have gained in white-collar communities around major cities filled with well-educated voters who generally support both abortion rights and gun control.

"Amid discontent over persistent Covid disruptions, dissatisfaction over President Joe Biden’s performance, supply chain problems like the shortage of infant formula, and above all, the highest inflation in 40 years, Republicans have expressed mounting confidence about recapturing many of those suburban House seats, and flipping suburban voters in Senate and governor races, in November. But the tragic mass shootings in Buffalo, New York, and Uvalde, Texas, have riveted attention on gun violence and access to firearms along with more attention to women's rights when it comes to their health."

Here is the problem for the Republicans. The Biden administration did not cause Covid disruptions, supply shortages, infant formula shortage, or the high inflation. Increased spending resulting from full employment -- as in a prosperous economy -- caused inflation and some of the other problems.

*On the other hand, the NRA sponsored Republican Party is responsible for the failure to pass needed gun control legislation, and the GOP clearly wants government control of pregnancies in America, forbidding women to make decisions regarding their own pregnancy. In the case of abortion, Republicans want to impose their religious views on all Americans, a violation of the spirit, if not the meaning, of our Constitution. *

Perhaps Republicans should not be that confident.


----------



## Jim H - VA USA (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I am not an NRA member as well. I fully support the second amendment.


The 2A says "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Glad to hear you support it.  To me, that means that law-abiding citizens of sound mind should be able to own powerful weapons for self defense, sport, or hunting, including high-capacity AR-15s and all kinds of other stuff.



NotfooledbyW said:


> Where the line is drawn on that freedom when it overrides the freedom to live about 10-year-old child is not compatible with your Republican no limit indifference to the gun owner ideology and culture of death that is causing are Black people in churches in supermarkets and children in classrooms.



We are not indifferent to it.  It is terrible.  There is a crisis, but it's people who commit crimes, not guns or knives or fertilizer or vehicles or gasoline.

The problem is not solved by restricting the rights of the law-abiding because there are some bad people among us.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Jim H - VA USA said:


> law-abiding citizens of sound mind should be able to own powerful weapons for self defense,


How powerful? Self-defense? Why not Apache helicopters and surface to air missiles in case you’re being attacked by the government by the air. The US government does possess an Air Force you know.

You decided that assault rifles are all you need for sejf defense - based on what? Because they look cool?


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Again with this fantasy that if people couldn't buy an AR, they would not go on a killing spree.


I have never posed or suggested such an argument. Therefore you are a liar arguing with yourself.


----------



## Jim H - VA USA (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> How powerful? Self-defense? Why not Apache helicopters and surface to air missiles in case you’re being attacked by the government by the air. The US government does possess an Air Force you know.


I don't get to decide that.  Supreme Court does.  You can see from current law what has been decided so far.

Your comment on the Air Force is so nonsensical.  2A is about arming the populace.



NotfooledbyW said:


> You decided that assault rifles are all you need for sejf defense - based on what? Because the look cool?


I did not say that, but when the food shortages come, and the power has been out for a while, and armed gangs are going door-to-door, you will wish you had one.

PS:  Get a clue about what an "assault rifle" is.  I think you classify them based upon the ones that look scary.....

So scary




(it's a .22, and it's not an assault rifle)


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Jim H - VA USA said:


> law-abiding citizens of sound mind should be able to own powerful weapons for self defense, sport, or hunting, including high-capacity AR-15s and all kinds of other stuff.



Why do you drop the first part of the SA And a pose well regulated ownership powerful weapons but anybody who wants one without a background check. 



Jim H - VA USA said:


> The 2A says "A well regulated Militia,



All the rednecks that bought 200 million guns over the past 20 years we’re not engaged in any kind of a well regulated militia that I know of.

 I do not believe the white nationalists, white Christian or not white Christian nationalists like the Proud Boys,  the Oath Keepers and the Three Percenters who attacked our Capitol for former President Trump on Jsn6 , are well regulated militias. do you?


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Jim H - VA USA said:


> I don't get to decide that.


Yes you do. It’s a political decision not a legal decision, You put politicians in power who let the assault rifle ban expire. Thousands of deaths by assault rifle later you wanna put it on the Supreme Court. What a Putz.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I have never posed or suggested such an argument. Therefore you are a liar arguing with yourself.



Not at all.  And I see you snipped my question.  Good choice on your part.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> How powerful? Self-defense? Why not Apache helicopters and surface to air missiles in case you’re being attacked by the government by the air. The US government does possess an Air Force you know.
> 
> You decided that assault rifles are all you need for sejf defense - based on what? Because they look cool?



Based on it's nobody's business why a person chooses a gun.  Like a car, or apartment, or home, it's all in what you're comfortable with and what YOU feel you need it for.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> It does not matter at all. The point was that the word is “may” protect the children. So you’re accepting the children are left defenseless because you want the gun manufacturers to be able to sell assault rifles to anyone who wants one with just about zero amount of a background check.
> 
> Your argument is actually supportive of banning the assault rifle because you say other guns can fire just the same.. So due to their appeal to these young shooters and white supremacist types they should be banned because as you say there are other types of firearms that do the same job. But they don’t look like some kind of macho Rambo gun that appeals to young first time gun buyers


Yes it absolutely does matter.  

You sir are babbling fool... Rambo didn't use a semi auto rifle either.

You know nothing of firearms either.  Maximum effective range of the average handgun in the hands of an average shooter is about 30-45'.  The maximum range of the 5.56 in the hands of the average shooter is 350 yards.

You should spend a lot less time talking out of your ass and more time trying to actually learn something before running off at the mouth.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You arexl the victim of National Rifle Association and gun manufacturers marketing psychology. Your opinion is worthless.
> 
> Over the past two decades -- a period in which more than 200 million guns hit the US market -- the country has shifted from "Gun Culture 1.0," where guns were for sport and hunting, to "Gun Culture 2.0" where many Americans see them as essential to protect their homes and families.​​
> 
> ...


Actually that's fabricated bullshit.  When crime rates were skyrocketing from the early seventies until the late nineties what drove gun sales were the need for a firearm for personal protection.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Based on it's nobody's business why a person chooses a gun.


Why should it be a ten year olds business “why” a person chooses assault weapons to mass murder them in schools when Ray from Cleveland says it is none of anybody’s business because Ray from Cleveland has more respect for the shooter’s right to purchase the weapon than the ten year olds right to not be shot and mutilated to death by it.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> You know nothing of firearms either.


Get off that crock full of your shit. I know bullets tear through the flesh bones brains and muscle of a ten year old because that is what it is designed and manufactured and sold for profit to do. I have no interest in knowing anything about your playthings.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Get off that crock full of your shit. I know bullets tear through the flesh bones brains and muscle of a ten year old because that is what it is designed and manufactured and sold for profit to do. I have no interest in knowing anything about your playthings.


You are continuing to fabricate bullshit.

No firearm was ever designed for the purposes of committing murder.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> He got in because the staff knew him as his grandmother worked there.


He only got in because an idiot teacher left the damned door open for him.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> You should spend a lot less time talking out of your ass and more time trying to actually learn something before running off at the mouth.


Your hobby bores me until your hobby spills over with massive amounts of blood of children and black folds on school and supermarket floors.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> No firearm was ever designed for the purposes of committing murder.



Here is what I wrote. Who were you replying to? 



NotfooledbyW said:


> I know bullets tear through the flesh bones brains and muscle of a ten year old because that is what it is designed and manufactured and sold for profit to do.



Am I wrong?


----------



## skye (May 31, 2022)

Biden blaming guns and at the same time being protected by heavily armed bodyguards.....is a bit inconsistent, don't you think?

What a phony piece of sewage.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Here is what I wrote. Who were you replying to?
> 
> 
> 
> Am I wrong?


Yes.  No gun was ever designed to kill ten year olds.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> He only got in because an idiot teacher left the damned door open for him.


You are a disgusting liar. A reactionary asshole blaming a teacher after two teachers were mass murdered with nineteen of their students. Republican evil is exposed more than ever by the last two mass shootings. You could be the poster boy of Republican evil. Do you think you Christian religion can protect you forever? 

Texas authorities say a teacher closed a propped-open door before the attack​
May 31, 20228:03 PM ET
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS







An exterior door at Robb Elementary School did not lock when it was closed by a teacher shortly before a gunman used it to get inside and kill 19 students and two teachers, leaving investigators searching to determine why, state police said Tuesday.
State police initially said a teacher had propped the door open shortly before Salvador Ramos, 18, entered the school in Uvalde, Texas, on May 24.
They have now determined that the teacher, who has not been identified, propped the door open with a rock, but then removed the rock and closed the door when she realized there was a shooter on campus, said Travis Considine, chief communications officer for the Texas Department of Public Safety. But, Considine said, the door did not lock.
"We did verify she closed the door. The door did not lock. We know that much and now investigators are looking into why it did not lock," Considine said.
Investigators confirmed the detail through additional video footage reviewed since last Friday's news conference when authorities first said that the door had been left propped open. Authorities did not state at that time what had been used to prop open the door


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> He got in because the staff knew him as his grandmother worked there.


You made that up. Why?


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Yes. No gun was ever designed to kill ten year olds.


Again, I realize you cannot read:


NotfooledbyW said:


> I know bullets tear through the flesh bones brains and muscle of a ten year old because that is what it is designed and manufactured and sold for profit to do.


Are you saying bullets are not designed and manufactured and sold for profit to tear through the flesh bones brains and muscle of a ten year old if that is what the consumer plans to use them for?

According to Ray From Cleveland its nobody’s business what the purchaser of an assault rifle and ammo intends to do with it. Is Ray right about that?

How’s come it’s your business what biological function is going inside a woman’s body?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Again, I realize you cannot read:
> 
> Are you saying bullets are not designed and manufactured and sold for profit to tear through the flesh bones brains and muscle of a ten year old if that is what the consumer plans to use them for?
> 
> ...


I'm saying no bullet or firearm is designed to be used to murder a 10 year old.


----------



## scruffy (May 31, 2022)

Lurchadams said:


> No the problem is the ARs on the street.  We need those off now. The problem is the guns.


Yeah. The people have nothing to do with it


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

Lurchadams said:


> No the problem is the ARs on the street.  We need those off now. The problem is the guns.


Since it is impossible that removing AR's is going to reduce the number of mass shootings or the casualties in them your logic seems to be full of holes.


----------



## Lurchadams (May 31, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Yeah. The people have nothing to do with it


The people, the Republican and the demons from the gun lobby.  They are the ones who have everything to do with it, because "bad guys with guns" and mental illness exist in every other country.  It's only Americans that have this sick obsession with these killing machines.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 31, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> He only got in because an idiot teacher left the damned door open for him.


True.   I was talking about Sandy Hook.  My apologies!


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> I'm saying no bullet or firearm is designed to be used to murder a 10 year old.


It is designed to tear through the flesh bones brains and muscle of any living organism that the person who purchased the weapon and the ammo decides to shoot with it.  If that decision is a ten year old kid then that Is what it is designed to do.


----------



## Nostra (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> It is designed to tear through the flesh bones brains and muscle of any living organism that the person who purchased the weapon and the ammo decides to shoot with it.  If that decision is a ten year old kid then that Is what it is designed to do.


Wait. What?  You just blamed the criminal, not the gun.

Oops!


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Since it is impossible that removing AR's is going to reduce the number of mass shootings or the casualties in them your logic seems to be full of holes.



Kids are not worthy of finding out?  Nothing is impossible to try for safer schools. You are an NRA jerk.


----------



## Nostra (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Kids are not worthy of finding out?  Nothing is impossible to try for safer schools. You are an NRA jerk.


Once again I must ask, how is the NRA connected to this shooting?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Kids are not worthy of finding out?  Nothing is impossible to try for safer schools. You are an NRA jerk.


This is why people like yourself should never be allowed a voice or seat at the table.

The most commonly used firearm in mass shootings are handguns, not rifles, and not the dreaded, "Assault Rifles".

The only thing a new AWB would accomplish is to push even more people to commit such acts and it would be easier to get into a position to commit such an act because handguns are far easier to conceal.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Nostra said:


> Wait. What? You just blamed the criminal, not the gun.


I always blame the criminal and the gun. I blame the politicians and the voters who choose them that make it easy to buy the guns, the shop that sells the gun and the manufacturer profiting off the gun. 

A gun relies entirely on all those people in order to send a bullet to tear through the flesh bones brains and muscle of a ten year old child in a classroom, because it is true.


----------



## Lurchadams (May 31, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> This is why people like yourself should never be allowed a voice or seat at the table.
> 
> The most commonly used firearm in mass shootings are handguns, not rifles, and not the dreaded, "Assault Rifles".
> 
> The only thing a new AWB would accomplish is to push even more people to commit such acts and it would be easier to get into a position to commit such an act because handguns are far easier to conceal.


The Uvalde cops waited outside because they didn't want their heads blown off by those AR high-speed mutilators.  We're getting those ARs.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I always blame the criminal and the gun. I blame the politicians and the voters who choose them that make it easy to buy the guns, the shop that sells the gun and the manufacturer profiting off the gun.
> 
> A gun relies entirely on all those people in order to send a bullet to tear through the flesh bones brains and muscle of a ten year old child in a classroom, because it is true.


Would you prefer they go back to incendiaries and explosives?

Who do we blame then?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

Lurchadams said:


> The Uvalde cops waited outside because they didn't want their heads blown off by those AR high-speed mutilators.  We're getting those ARs.


You are a bald faced liar.  They waited outside because the UISD PC told them to stand down because he believed it had gone from an active shooter situation to a barricaded hostage standoff.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

Lurchadams said:


> We're getting those ARs.


Strap it on and Come'n Get them yourself cupcake.  Don't be a coward hiding behind others who will have to risk their lives to do so.

Man up hero and "Git'r Done".


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Nostra said:


> Once again I must ask, how is the NRA connected to this shooting?


A decent background check that took ten days gets students there past the final day of school. They aren’t there ten days after birthday boy at 18 decided to legally buy an assault rifle to mass murder ten year old kids.  That’s just one.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 31, 2022)

Lurchadams said:


> The Uvalde cops waited outside because they didn't want their heads blown off by those AR high-speed mutilators.  We're getting those ARs.


Not true.  Why do you lie?


----------



## Nostra (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I always blame the criminal and the gun. I blame the politicians and the voters who choose them that make it easy to buy the guns, the shop that sells the gun and the manufacturer profiting off the gun.
> 
> A gun relies entirely on all those people in order to send a bullet to tear through the flesh bones brains and muscle of a ten year old child in a classroom, because it is true.


I blame the criminal, and only the criminal because he is the one responsible.  
But then, I have critical thinking skills.


----------



## Lurchadams (May 31, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> You are a bald faced liar.  They waited outside because the UISD PC told them to stand down because he believed it had gone from an active shooter situation to a barricaded hostage standoff.


No. The cops didn't want to be late for dinner for some poor Mexican kids so they waited outside until the screaming and shooting stopped.  The cops knew there were still kids alive in there and they did nothing.  No lying here but you, you white supremacist.


----------



## Nostra (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> A decent background check that took ten days gets students there past the final day of school. They aren’t there ten days after birthday boy at 18 decided to legally buy an assault rifle to mass murder ten year old kids.  That’s just one.


Link me up to the NRA writing, passing, and signing background check laws.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 31, 2022)

Lurchadams said:


> No. The cops didn't want to be late for dinner for some poor Mexican kids so they waited outside until the screaming and shooting stopped.  The cops knew there were still kids alive in there and they did nothing.  No lying here but you, you white supremacist.


Wanna bet over half of those cops are of Mexican descent?

BTW, Mexicans are white.


----------



## Lurchadams (May 31, 2022)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Wanna bet over half of those cops are of Mexican descent?


It doesn't make any difference what the cops are.  People betray their own ethnicity all the time.  The kids parents just didn't carry enough political clout for their little lives to matter so little Marella had to die because officer Gomez didn't want to be late for dinner.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Would you prefer they go back to incendiaries and explosives?
> 
> Who do we blame then?


When you anti-gubbmint hillbillies form the NEA National EXPLOSIVES Association  to lobby for 18 yr olds to easily buy HMX -  High Melting Explosives and it’s nobody’s business what he wants to do with it let’s talk


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> When you anti-gubbmint hillbillies form the NEA National EXPLOSIVES Association  to lobby for 18 yr olds to easily buy HMX -  High Melting Explosives and it’s nobody’s business what he wants to do with it let’s talk


You don't need to buy any commercial explosive in order to commit mass murder with them in a school or anywhere else for that matter.


----------



## Lurchadams (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> When you anti-gubbmint hillbillies form the NEA National EXPLOSIVES Association  to lobby for 18 yr olds to easily buy HMX -  High Melting Explosives and it’s nobody’s business what he wants to do with it let’s talk


I just put that white supremacist diaper stain, Bend Over Texas, on ignore!  It felt great


----------



## scruffy (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Get off that crock full of your shit. I know bullets tear through the flesh bones brains and muscle of a ten year old because that is what it is designed and manufactured and sold for profit to do. I have no interest in knowing anything about your playthings.


Unfortunately, this level of ignorance is typical of the modern progtard.

Probably never been out of mommy's basement, is my guess


----------



## Lurchadams (May 31, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Unfortunately, this level of ignorance is typical of the modern progtard.
> 
> Probably never been out of mommy's basement, is my guess


And another ignore.  You trolls really DO come out at night!  Bi-troll.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Kids are not worthy of finding out?  Nothing is impossible to try for safer schools. You are an NRA jerk.



You just admitted to me a few hours ago that stopping sales of AKs and ARs won't stop a school shooting.  It's one of the few things you said that was correct.  

This is what would happen:  Dementia somehow bans AR's.  They fly off the shelves as fast as they can make them.  In the end there will be twice as many more as there is now.  Is that what you propose?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

Lurchadams said:


> No. The cops didn't want to be late for dinner for some poor Mexican kids so they waited outside until the screaming and shooting stopped.  The cops knew there were still kids alive in there and they did nothing.  No lying here but you, you white supremacist.


Hispanics are white/Caucasian and Uvalde is 95% white/Hispanic as are the police in the area.

You are a lying, racist, piece of shit.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 31, 2022)

Lurchadams said:


> It doesn't make any difference what the cops are.  People betray their own ethnicity all the time.  The kids parents just didn't carry enough political clout for their little lives to matter so little Marella had to die because officer Gomez didn't want to be late for dinner.


You really are acting like a troll.  Should we just ignore you now and get it over with?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> It is designed to tear through the flesh bones brains and muscle of any living organism that the person who purchased the weapon and the ammo decides to shoot with it.  If that decision is a ten year old kid then that Is what it is designed to do.



Dementia just said that a 9mm will blow out the lungs of people.  9mm is one of the most popular guns for range and CCW holders.  See where this is all going now?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You just admitted to me a few hours ago that stopping sales of AKs and ARs won't stop a school shooting.  It's one of the few things you said that was correct.
> 
> This is what would happen:  Dementia somehow bans AR's.  They fly off the shelves as fast as they can make them.  In the end there will be twice as many more as there is now.  Is that what you propose?


All they ever do by proposing such bans is drive sales into the stratosphere.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Nostra said:


> I blame the criminal, and only the criminal because he is the one responsible.
> But then, I have critical thinking skills.


No, you have a farce of a hobby to protect. That is all that concerns you after one of your toys is involved in a mass shooting. Specifically when ten year olds make up the majority of the mass murdered. It’s just a PR problem to get by until the four foot coffins are buried deep in the ground,


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 31, 2022)

Lurchadams said:


> And another ignore.  You trolls really DO come out at night!  Bi-troll.


Bi-troll?  So you have sex with trolls of either sex?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> *Dementia just said that a 9mm will blow out the lungs of people*.  9mm is one of the most popular guns for range and CCW holders.  See where this is all going now?


This is why the clueless should never even have a voice much less a seat at the table when discussing regulations on guns and ammunition.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> No, you have a farce of a hobby to protect. That is all that concerns you after one of your toys is involved in a mass shooting. Specifically when ten year olds make up the majority of the madd murdered. It’s just a PR problem to get by until the four foot coffins are deep in the ground,


I'm pretty confident in saying that none of our toys have ever been used in a mass shooting.

If they had, we'd be dead or in prison.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Again, I realize you cannot read:
> 
> Are you saying bullets are not designed and manufactured and sold for profit to tear through the flesh bones brains and muscle of a ten year old if that is what the consumer plans to use them for?
> 
> ...



So what are you saying, that you believe if we ask a crazy guy buying an AR to kill children, he is going to tell us?


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Dementia just said that a 9mm will blow out the lungs of people. 9mm is one of the most popular guns for range and CCW holders. See where this is all going now


Losing the PR battle are y’all?  The commies are coming the commies are coming the commies are coming


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Are you saying bullets are not designed and manufactured and sold for profit to tear through the flesh bones brains and muscle of a ten year old if that is what the consumer plans to use them for?


What they are designed for is determined by the manufacturer.

How they are used is the responsibility of the owner.

My truck is designed to pull loads up to 18,000lbs, if I choose to run it through a playground full of kids or through a crowd at a parade is it my fault or that of the manufacturer?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Losing the PR battle are y’all?  The commies are coming the commies are coming the commies are coming


We haven't lost anything in decades, in fact we've been successful in expanding gun rights all across the country since 1990.

The most frequent buyers of firearms for self defense these days are women, particularly single mothers so we're not losing anything, we're gaining and will continue to while you folks keep screeching and wailing.


----------



## LuckyDuck (May 31, 2022)

TroglocratsRdumb said:


> How about a new gun law that says that Democrats can't own guns.


Then the pro-Democrat inner-city hood-rats would have to resort back to killing each other with knives and clubs.  Let the hood-rat gangs keep the firearms.  They just keep reducing their voting base.  The only unfortunate thing with those conflicts is the innocents get caught up in it as well.


----------



## scruffy (May 31, 2022)

Lurchadams said:


> And another ignore.  You trolls really DO come out at night!  Bi-troll.


It's not my fault you can't handle the truth.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Why should it be a ten year olds business “why” a person chooses assault weapons to mass murder them in schools when Ray from Cleveland says it is none of anybody’s business because Ray from Cleveland has more respect for the shooter’s right to purchase the weapon than the ten year olds right to not be shot and mutilated to death by it.



Nobody has to answer to you.  WTF do you think you are anyway?  If a person passes a background check, that's all that should be needed for an individual to buy any firearm he or she wants.  What's next, do we ask car purchasers if they intend to use the car to get to the bar, get drunk and try to drive home too?  Maybe your cable installer asking if you are going to use the internet to lure children to your hotel room?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 31, 2022)

LuckyDuck said:


> Then the pro-Democrat inner-city hood-rats would have to resort back to killing each other with knives and clubs.  Let the hood-rat gangs keep the firearms.  They just keep reducing their voting base.  The only unfortunate thing with those conflicts is the innocents get caught up in it as well.



And that has happened too; not here, but it's happened. 









						UK police behind effort to ban knives to end ‘knife violence’
					

British police are supporting an effort called “Save a Life: Surrender Your Knife” in an attempt to curb the growing rash of “knife crime”.




					personalliberty.com
				












						London's murder rate surpasses New York's for 1st time ever
					

Depending who you ask, surging knife and gun crime could be blamed on social media, lax law enforcement, budget cuts or all of the above




					www.cbsnews.com
				












						After murder rate passes NYC, London Mayor Sadiq Khan calls for sharper knife control
					

"No excuses: there is never a reason to carry a knife," Sadiq Khan said. London recently surpassed New York City's homicide rate for the first time.



					www.usatoday.com


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> I'm pretty confident in saying that none of our toys have ever been used in a mass shooting.


You drive the demand. Every assault weapon ever made is a response by manufacturers to provide sufficient supply of whatever you need to pleasure yourselves in the great gun hobby. 

See this guy pleasuring himself with a deadly weapon .


----------



## Nostra (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> No, you have a farce of a hobby to protect. That is all that concerns you after one of your toys is involved in a mass shooting. Specifically when ten year olds make up the majority of the madd murdered. It’s just a PR problem to get by until the four foot coffins are deep in the ground,


So you think you can tell me who I blame, and what concerns me?

STFU Kreskin wannabe.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Losing the PR battle are y’all?  The commies are coming the commies are coming the commies are coming



Oh please, the Communists have a history of this.  They actually want Y, but propose X as a stepping stone to get what they ultimately want.  

And if you were half way honest with yourself, that's all this is.  It's getting their foot in the door.  Once they ban AR's and it proves to do no good because murderers will just use an alternative weapon, they will want to ban those next.  When the same thing happens, they will go after the next most popular gun used in murders.  

If you think that they will stop at AR's or AK's, you are lying to yourself.  They want all our guns.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You drive the demand. Every assault weapon ever made is a response by manufacturers to provide sufficient supply of whatever you need to pleasure yourselves in the great gun hobby.
> 
> See this guy pleasuring himself with a deadly weapon .
> 
> View attachment 652594


How exactly do I drive the demand?  How many do I own? Have you seen me marketing "Assault Weapons" anywhere?

Has Don Jr ever committed a crime with that AR much less a mass shooting?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You drive the demand. Every assault weapon ever made is a response by manufacturers to provide sufficient supply of whatever you need to pleasure yourselves in the great gun hobby.
> 
> See this guy pleasuring himself with a deadly weapon .



You are making a good point.  You can't be a true liberal unless you're ruining the happiness of other people.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Oh please, the Communists have a history of this.  They actually want Y, but propose X as a stepping stone to get what they ultimately want.
> 
> And if you were half way honest with yourself, that's all this is.  It's getting their foot in the door.  Once they ban AR's and it proves to do no good because murderers will just use an alternative weapon, they will want to ban those next.  When the same thing happens, they will go after the next most popular gun used in murders.
> 
> If you think that they will stop at AR's or AK's, you are lying to yourself.  They want all our guns.


Exactly, they always start with the low hanging fruit.  In the seventies the big push was to ban handguns.  Guess what the response to that was?  People started buying up so called "assault rifles" as fast as they could be produced along with trying to buy up every hand gun they could afford.

Any threat to the supply simply drives the demand for same through the roof.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You are making a good point.  You can't be a true liberal unless you're ruining the happiness of other people.


Shared Misery is their road to happiness for all.


----------



## Lurchadams (May 31, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You are making a good point.  You can't be a true liberal unless you're ruining the happiness of other people.


Yep, I know I wake up each morning planning my unhappiness spree <smg>


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 31, 2022)

Lurchadams said:


> Yep, I know I wake up each morning planning my unhappiness spree <smg>



Then you are a good faithful liberal.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 31, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Shared Misery is their road to happiness for all.



When I thank God for what I got, one of them is not giving me the mind of a liberal.  I couldn't imagine living that way. 

A liberal sees a man happy with his financial success.  He made a comfortable life for himself and has money to make the lives of his heirs happy.  Liberals want to take his money making him unhappy. 

A liberal sees a fat kid eating a Happy Meal at McDonald's with his family.  The liberal wants a law to stop McDonald's from making Happy Meals for kids so they will be unhappy. 

A liberal sees a man happily carrying his gun for his protection and comfort knowing he's prepared to defend himself.  The liberal demands the government stop him from carrying his firearm making him unhappy.  

A liberal sees a man happily smoking his cigarette on a bench outside in a park.  The liberals will demand they make a law stopping him from smoking in the park, even though the park is outside and he's bothering nobody. 

Liberals are miserable people.  Their entire existence hinges on how to make everybody else as miserable as they are.


----------



## Lurchadams (May 31, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Then you are a good faithful liberal.


Today I indoctrinated a child to think he should be gay.  It was a good day.  Tomorrow, after I read my Antifa daily newsletter, I plan to go say shame to people wearing leather jackets. - Not because I'm an animal rights guy, I just think people wearing leather jackets in the summer, unless they're riding a Harley, are total douches.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> When I thank God for what I got, one of them is not giving me the mind of a liberal.  I couldn't imagine living that way.
> 
> A liberal sees a man happy with his financial success.  He made a comfortable life for himself and has money to make the lives of his heirs happy.  Liberals want to take his money making him unhappy.
> 
> ...


They are by their very nature the most viscous, dishonest, venomous, hate mongers in the nation.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (May 31, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You can't be a true liberal unless you're ruining the happiness of other people.


Sorry to disturb your happiness on behalf of ten year olds who will never have another day of happiness or anything at all    because your hobby is so sacred that there cannot be any serious restriction on any of the toys you want to purchase,


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Sorry to disturb your happiness on behalf of ten year olds who will never have another day of happiness or anything at all    being ecause your hobby is so sacred that there cannot be any serious restriction on any of the toys you want to purchase,


You can't show that any "serious restrictions" would end such school shootings or that people will not turn to even more gruesome means to conduct school massacres.

The worse school massacre in the US wasn't perpetrated with a gun.


----------



## scruffy (May 31, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> If you think that they will stop at AR's or AK's, you are lying to yourself.  They want all our guns.


They might get them, too.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 1, 2022)

scruffy said:


> They might get them, too.


You can bet on one thing.  None of these blowhards crowing about taking our guns will ever be the first one through the door to come and get them.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Sorry to disturb your happiness on behalf of ten year olds who will never have another day of happiness or anything at all    being ecause your hobby is so sacred that there cannot be any serious restriction on any of the toys you want to purchase,



You don't speak for 10 year olds, and you taking AR's away from the public wouldn't have stopped that shooting or any other mass shooting.  All you want is to feel good about yourself.  Even if your efforts prove to be fruitless, it doesn't matter to you.  

You are every bit as pathetic as Dementia when he turned a grevience speech into a political movement while he addressed the nation on this tragedy, using the bodies of young children not even cold yet to promote his gun grabbing political agenda.  But hey, never let a good tragedy go to waste, right?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 1, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> You can bet on one thing.  None of these blowhards crowing about taking our guns will ever be the first one through the door to come and get them.




There is only one way we could possibly get rid of guns, and that is if we get rid of liberals first.  Without leftists around, who would need guns?  

If I go to my store one night to pick up some beer, I'm not worried about a Republican holding up the store, hitting me on the head with the butt of his gun and taking my wallet and car keys.  Republicans don't do these things, liberals do these things. 

If I'm making an ATM bank deposit at night, I don't fear a conservative wedging himself between the machine and my car forcing me to withdraw the maximum I can get.  Conservatives don't do these things, leftists do these things. 

The bottom line is the reason we can't get rid of our guns is because of leftists.  In order to get rid of guns, we'd have to get rid of leftists first.  Since that can't be done and Lord knows we're trying   we need to keep our guns at our side to protect ourselves from leftists.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 1, 2022)

Nostra said:


> So you think you can tell me who I blame, and what concerns me?



Nope just reading what you say concerns you and who is trying to keep you from have much fun playing with your toys?



Ray From Cleveland said:


> They want all our guns.



Damn those fuckin “they”



Big Bend Texas said:


> How exactly do I drive the demand?


You are driving it right now.. spreading fear and hate so the only solution is guns   Guns and easy access to more guns.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Their entire existence hinges on how to make everybody else as miserable as they are.



My existence led to paying cash for this:






Our hobby: Nothing like walking into a home builders sales office and telling them you are paying cash. New construction we will rent out / this will pay for a couple of luxury trips to Europe every year and buy groceries.

I have never owned a gun. Besides my dog, these are my two favorite toys.








$5,000 Specialized is my most favored possession. I want to ride the coast of England or Ireland without a gun before I turn 80.  such is the misery of being  a liberal who knows nothing about guns.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You are driving it right now.. spreading fear and hate so the only solution is guns Guns and easy access to more guns.


Quote where I have spread either fear or hate.


----------



## scruffy (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Nope just reading what you say concerns you and who is trying to keep you from have much fun playing with your toys?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol

My truck wouldn't fit in that garage.

Look at that thing, the front door is taller than it is! You'd be lucky to fit a Smart car in there!


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 1, 2022)

scruffy said:


> lol
> 
> My truck wouldn't fit in that garage.
> 
> Look at that thing, the front door is taller than it is! You'd be lucky to fit a Smart car in there!


You couldn't get me to live in that if it were free.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 1, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> You couldn't get me to live in that if it were free.




We will get $2400 /month easy with no mortgage = $1400 income  so why would we rent it to a hillbilly who thinks gun buyers have more rights than ten year olds  have a right to live.


----------



## scruffy (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> We will get $2400 /month easy with no mortgage = $1400 income  so why would we rent it to a hillbilly who thinks gun buyers have more rights than ten year olds  have a right to live.


Stupid fucking leftard !!!

Just because someone abused your rights is no reason to strip those same rights from million of others.

Your logic stinks.

You're a dumbass, shit for brains leftard.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 1, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Stupid fucking leftard !!!
> 
> Just because someone abused your rights is no reason to strip those same rights from million of others.
> 
> ...


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> We will get $2400 /month easy with no mortgage = $1400 income  so why would we rent it to a hillbilly who thinks gun buyers have more rights than ten year olds  have a right to live.






I make more than 3x that daily without even getting out of bed thanks to idiots like Obama and Biden's idiot energy policies.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 1, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Shared Misery is their road to happiness for all.





Ray From Cleveland said:


> A liberal sees a man happy with his financial success. He made a comfortable life for himself and has money to make the lives of his heirs happy. Liberals want to take his money making him unhappy.





Big Bend Texas said:


> I make more than 3x that daily without even getting out of bed thanks to idiots like Obama and Biden's idiot energy policies



Wow $4000 a day laying in bed. -  Jesus really LOVED you  


Great for you - I don’t need that much but this is for certain “Shared Misery” is not on my road to happiness. it’s appearing to be you suffer the unhinged delusion of a wealthy but arrogant perpetual asshole who worships guns. 

How much were you making when Trump was making energy policy’s 

Therefore the reality is Biden and Obama never did take away your money to make you and Ray From Cleveland unhappy. In fact they helped you make more. Interesting.


----------



## scruffy (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> In fact they helped you make more. Interesting.


And Isaac Hayes gets paid every time Trump plays his song


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 1, 2022)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Not my job to educate who George Floyd is in 2022. Go hang out in the PlayStation forum, this one is for people who have at least half a clue to what’s going on in the world.



What's and where's this "play station"? In Sony-land? And what has this to do with Germans who murdered in your fantasy a man with the name George Floyd? ... Your weirdness, do you have any any idea what you like to tell me? ...


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I am not an NRA member as well. I fully support the second amendment.



You bought a muzzle loader and aggree that ever country of the USA has to have an own army while the Union has not to have an army at all?



NotfooledbyW said:


> Where the line is drawn on that freedom when it overrides the freedom to live about 10-year-old child is not compatible with your Republican no limit indifference to the gun owner ideology and culture of death that is causing are Black people in churches in supermarkets and children in classrooms.


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 1, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> Total bullshit.   If everyone is armed,



Then everyone is an idiot.



Leo123 said:


> perps (who are cowards) will stand down.   In fact, they won't even try because anyone can render them room temperature.   Guns provide a defensive wall between law abiding citizens and criminal perps.


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 1, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> Learn about guns, how they work, etc.  Shoot rhem,  get used  to them.  They are your only defense.



And how many millions of tons of human meat still stinks around the throne of god because "they"  - whoever "they" had been once - defended each other against each other? What likes to show the USA to the world ? Empty prisons? The more weapons exist in the USA since the 1970ies the less prisoners exist? Really?

USA (~"bad weapon laws") 629 prisoners per 100,000 inhabitants.
Germany (~"strict weapon laws") 71 prisoners per 100,000 inhabitants.


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You drive the demand. Every assault weapon ever made is a response by manufacturers to provide sufficient supply of whatever you need to pleasure yourselves in the great gun hobby.
> 
> See this guy pleasuring himself with a deadly weapon .
> 
> View attachment 652594




What for heavens sake is going on in the brain of such an absurde murderous _"I like to be a crusader"_-superidiot? The same as in the brain of an absurde murderous jihadist who has not any idea about the big jihad - what is an inner fight against the own person?

_„Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam!“

_


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 1, 2022)

scruffy said:


> You just don't get it, do you?
> 
> I am => NOT INTERESTED <= in your worthless German opinion.
> 
> ...



After you read what I said to you and you still give this totally stupid "answer" (=hate attack) it is totally clear for me now that never anyone of your family had anything to do with Switzerland. A Swiss reacts on critics with arguments and not with an unmotivated hate attack. So I think you are a liar. And for me it's also totally clear that you are a Nazi on your own.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 1, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> And how many millions of tons of human meat still stinks around the throne of god because "they"  - whoever "they" had been once - defended each other against each other? What likes to show the USA to the world ? Empty prisons? The more weapons exist in the USA since the 1970ies the less prisoners exist? Really?
> 
> USA (~"bad weapon laws") 629 prisoners per 100,000 inhabitants.
> Germany (~"strict weapon laws") 71 prisoners per 100,000 inhabitants.



Germany Demographics by race:

White --88%
Other-- 12%


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Therefore the reality is Biden and Obama never did take away your money to make you and @Ray From Cleveland unhappy. In fact they helped you make more. Interesting.



I had employer sponsored health insurance all of my working life until that Kenyan lawn jockey showed up.  The day it started my employer dropped that benefit as many small business employers have.  That cost me tens of thousands since Commie Care had no plans for my provider.  You know, if you like your doctor and hospital, you can keep your doctor and hospital?  Pure bullshit and still is today.  If you don't believe me, just go to Commie Care's website and find a plan for the Cleveland Clinic and see how you come up empty handed.


----------



## Blues Man (Jun 1, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> And how many millions of tons of human meat still stinks around the throne of god because "they"  - whoever "they" had been once - defended each other against each other? What likes to show the USA to the world ? Empty prisons? The more weapons exist in the USA since the 1970ies the less prisoners exist? Really?
> 
> USA (~"bad weapon laws") 629 prisoners per 100,000 inhabitants.
> Germany (~"strict weapon laws") 71 prisoners per 100,000 inhabitants.


We tend to lock up mostly nonviolent offenders.

Drug and property crime offenders are the highest populations in our prisons


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> We will get $2400 /month easy with no mortgage = $1400 income  so why would we rent it to a hillbilly who thinks gun buyers have more rights than ten year olds  have a right to live.



Right, because that's what it boils down to in your tiny mind, the choice between constitutional freedom and the life of a ten year old.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Right, because that's what it boils down to in your tiny mind, the choice between constitutional freedom and the life of a ten year old.


And the reason that you suck as a human being in general is that you go absolutely nuts over preserving your constitutional freedom to choose what the toys you like to play with look like over the life and the rights of a 10-year-old child. The child has no choice in the matter of life or death.  You’re a petty cruel human being spoiled rotten beyond repair.  Sitting around With your gun nut pals justifying your nonsense and cruelty with the explanation that you’re saving the world from Commies. Jesus H Christ.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> How powerful? Self-defense?


The Second Amendment  extends, prima facie,to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding.
USSC DC v Heller

"All bearable arms" - those "those in common use for lawful purposes"
"...weapons that were not specifically designed for military use and were not employed in a military capacity."
USSC, DC v Heller

This includes the AR15, et al.


NotfooledbyW said:


> Why not Apache helicopters and surface to air missiles ...


See above.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Why do you drop the first part of the SA...


The Second Amendment  protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.
Thus, "well regulated militia" is irrelevant in detrmingin who holds the right to keep an dbear arms as protected by the 2nd.


NotfooledbyW said:


> All the rednecks that bought 200 million guns over the past 20 years we’re not engaged in any kind of a well regulated militia that I know of.


See above.


NotfooledbyW said:


> I do not believe the white nationalists, white Christian or not white Christian nationalists like the Proud Boys,  the Oath Keepers and the Three Percenters who attacked our Capitol for former President Trump on Jsn6 , are well regulated militias. do you?


See above.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Yes you do. It’s a political decision not a legal decision, You put politicians in power who let the assault rifle ban expire.


As the 1994 AWB was an unnecessary and ineffective restriction on the rights of the law abiding, letting it expire was the only rational courrse of actiom.


NotfooledbyW said:


> Thousands of deaths by assault rifle later...


This is a lie.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> And the reason that you suck as a human being in general is that you go absolutely nuts over preserving your constitutional freedom to choose what the toys you like to play with look like over the life and the rights of a 10-year-old child. The child has no choice in the matter of life or death.  You’re a petty cruel human being spoiled rotten beyond repair.  Sitting around With your gun nut pals justifying your nonsense and cruelty with the explanation that you’re saving the world from Commies. Jesus H Christ.


Thank you for demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry, and irrational fear.


----------



## badger2 (Jun 1, 2022)

As a CIA puppet, POSPOTUS already knows that the Texas-New Orleans shootings are not about guns, nor even his handlers supplying guns to Ukraine. Other weapons would be used if they were not available. As Gonzalo Lira has noted, America is collapsing due to apathy, an apathy that cancels the individual who will then look for the opportunity to get recognized. That is the pathology now being deliberately cultivated for furtherance of America's demise. Neither this POSPOTUS nor his handlers are your friend.


----------



## badger2 (Jun 1, 2022)

White 6 said:


> We just came out of 4 years of a president that scoffed at objective morality.  Why would you expect more of society, than of a national leader?


Objective morality is an oxymoron. Nazism is morality itself, so there's no sense in making a case against nazism, which would be politically disatrous. No morality happens in the first place without the subjectivity of Homo sapiens, whether or not they are fucked up on religion. Thomas Jefferson had early on outlined the medicine for this mental illness.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 1, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> irrational fear.


Is it irrational fear when parents put their kids on a school bus in the morning and hug them as if they will never see them alive again so you can purchase the toys of your choice for your gun hobby?

I’ve never owned a gun in a life of over 70 years, never wanted one,or thought I needed one, I guess I have no fear.


----------



## Blues Man (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Is it irrational fear when parents put their kids on a school bus in the morning and hug them as if they will never see them alive again so you can purchase the toys of your choice for your gun hobby.


Yes.

99.9999% of all people who own guns legally would never murder anyone


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 1, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Yes.
> 
> 99.9999% of all people who own guns legally would never murder anyone


You are a complete moron. Salvador Ramos owned his guns legally up to the second he killed the first kid or shot his grandma in this case. So you are a liar to parents who are hugging their kids like they have never but like they will never see them again when they put them on a school bus.What kind of human being lies to parents like that. Legal owners of guns kill 10 year olds in their classroom in mass shootings.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 1, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> See above.


Therefore according to you “lawful purpose arms” are never to be used in resistance to the government that is oppressing you. Is that true?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Is it irrational fear when parents put their kids on a school bus in the morning and hug them as if they will never see them alive again...


At an average of just over 2 deaths / year over the last 40 years, a school shooting committed with an 'assault weapon' is the least likely way for a child to die.    
So... yes.


NotfooledbyW said:


> so you can purchase the toys of your choice for your gun hobby?


And thus, your ignorance and bigotry.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 1, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> At an average of just over 2 deaths / year over the last 40 years, a school shooting committed with an 'assault weapon' is the least likely way for a child to die.
> So... yes.



Tell your statistics to each parent : family in person who lost a loved one and let me know what they think of them. You asshole


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Therefore according to you “lawful purpose arms” are never to be used in resistance to the government that is oppressing you. Is that true?


You asked:
_Why not Apache helicopters and surface to air missiles ... _ 
I gave you the answer.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Tell you her statistics to each parent in person and let me know what they think of them. You asshole


And thus, your, and their, irrational fear.


----------



## badger2 (Jun 1, 2022)

Cars cannot be driven down the halls of a school, so guns checked at the doors, doors that are guarded so that no unauthorized persons can enter, will still not suffice: children will be shot outside the classroom for universal recognition. That perpetrator will win the award for cutting-edge applications of methods of murder of innocents, as the history of this violence evolves in the #1 country for it.


----------



## White 6 (Jun 1, 2022)

badger2 said:


> Objective morality is an oxymoron. Nazism is morality itself, so there's no sense in making a case against nazism, which would be politically disatrous. No morality happens in the first place without the subjectivity of Homo sapiens, whether or not they are fucked up on religion. Thomas Jefferson had early on outlined the medicine for this mental illness.


Maybe I used the term incorrectly.  He scoffed at, and tried to defend actions considered immoral in his personal life, public life, actions of associated (admitted, and/or convicted), broke faith with his own oath of office and had party hacks defend and block negative action.  4 years of seeing the crap contributed to him loosing the 2020 election as well as the two impeachments.


----------



## Blues Man (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You are a complete moron. Salvador Ramos owned his guns legally up to the second he killed the first kid or shot his grandma in this case. So you are a liar to parents who are hugging their kids like they have never but like they will never see them again when they put them on a school bus.What kind of human being lies to parents like that. Legal owners of guns kill 10 year olds in their classroom in mass shootings.


So what?

That doesn't change the fact that a minuscule fraction of a percent of legal gun owners will ever commit murder.

You might want to look up what percentages are


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Germany Demographics by race:
> 
> White --88%
> Other-- 12%



 100% white except Roberto Blanco (="Robert White" in your language). Indeed Roberto is double black because he is also a poltician from "the Blacks" = christian conservative political party,


"Good Evening" (voice from a leprechaun from Mainz)
_"98% of all jokers go to the wrong costume ball." (commentator)_


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 1, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> We tend to lock up mostly nonviolent offenders.
> 
> Drug and property crime offenders are the highest populations in our prisons



Guns are like a drug - how the USA shows to everyone worldwide. Your whole nation is dominated from the belief in this drug. And if you listen how drug addicts defend their drugs and how gun addicts defend their guns then you are not able to hear a big structural difference.


----------



## White 6 (Jun 1, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Guns are like a drug - how the USA shows to everyone worldwide. Your whole nation is dominated from the belief in this drug.


Can't say I disagree with that assessment.


----------



## Sunsettommy (Jun 1, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> And how many millions of tons of human meat still stinks around the throne of god because "they"  - whoever "they" had been once - defended each other against each other? What likes to show the USA to the world ? Empty prisons? The more weapons exist in the USA since the 1970ies the less prisoners exist? Really?
> 
> USA (~"bad weapon laws") 629 prisoners per 100,000 inhabitants.
> Germany (~"strict weapon laws") 71 prisoners per 100,000 inhabitants.



Your statistics appears misleading since you leave out a lot of data for drug trafficking and gang wars.


----------



## Sunsettommy (Jun 1, 2022)

White 6 said:


> No matter how you slice it, bombs are more technically demand, and harder to get, make, etc, than going to the local gun shop and are simpler to operation while providing greater flexibility and adaptability to changing situations.



Actually, it is easy to make a bomb with legal parts from the stores.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 1, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> That doesn't change the fact that a minuscule fraction of a percent of legal gun owners will ever commit murder.



I don’t advocate taking away the guns from those that already have them.  It’s a minuscule fraction of Americans who want to confiscate guns, but you don’t fucking understand “small fraction of a percentage” when you are stirring up fear the commie gun grabbers are coming after you. In the Uvalde Texas massacre the shooter turned 18, bought two AR15s  and within a week murdered 19 kids and two teachers. And you gun whackos argue that raising the age to 21 would not save these kids. You are absurd. Sure two years from now he might’ve done the same thing but what are  the odds of that?  He would probably be convicted of a less deadly felony by then.

I advocate that there’s a waiting period, when  a young 18-year-old wants to purchase an assault rifle, specifically those that have had no background in the use of firearms or does not have a genuine purpose or interest or need to have one. Because he wants one ain’t cutting it:

If there was just a 10 day waiting period in the Uvalde Texas massacre these kids would be out of schooom and alive and enjoying their summer just like you are probably about to do.

So don’t give me your crap about what I don’t understand. I understand. I understand the ugliness wacko gun owners in this country are forcing on the entire population for their selfish need to play with guns.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> If there was just a 10 day waiting period in the Uvalde Texas massacre these kids would be out of schooom and alive and enjoying their summer just like you are probably about to do.



School isn't even out yet because it's only June 1st and he bought those guns longer than 10 days ago.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 1, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Guns are like a drug - how the USA shows to everyone worldwide. Your whole nation is dominated from the belief in this drug. And if you listen how drug addicts defend their drugs and how gun addicts defend their guns then you are not able to hear a big structural difference.



People take recreational drugs to get high.  People buy guns for sport, self defense or hunting.


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 1, 2022)

Sunsettommy said:


> Your statistics appears misleading since you leave out a lot of data for drug trafficking and gang wars.



I leave out nothing. Who likes to tavel a little while throigh Europe will pass Germany many times. And we have also much more migrants from foreign nations. In 2015 for example came 1 million people from Europe and 1 million people from outside of Europe to Germany (this would be relativelly the same as if 8 million people - 4 millions from within America and 4 millions from oustide of America came to the USA). In 2016 we had a growing number in the crimes in context with sexuality. Means this now there had been less of this crimes in 2014 and before? No! The reason was we made new laws in this context in 2016. And we have by the way indeed also problems with clan and/or gang criminality and organized criminality.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 1, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> 100% white except Roberto Blanco (="Robert White" in your language). Indeed Roberto is double black because he is also a poltician from "the Blacks" = christian conservative political party,



The point is that you have virtually no minorities in your country so you can't compare yours to ours given the fact people of color are the largest segment of criminals here.  It has nothing to do with guns, it has to do with the people.


----------



## Sunsettommy (Jun 1, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> I leave out nothing. Who likes to tavel a little while throigh Europe will pass Germany many times. And we have also much more migrants from foreign nations. In 2015 for example came 1 million people from Europe and 1 million people from outside of Europe to Germany (this would be relativelly the same as if 8 million people - 4 millions from within America and 4 millions from oustide of America came to the USA). In 2016 we had a growing number in the crimes in context with sexuality. Means this now there had been less of this crimes in 2014 and before? No! The reason was we made new laws in this context in 2016. And we have by the way indeed also problems with clan and/or gang criminality and organized criminality.



You didn't address my statement in detail thus I am thinking you don't have the answer.

Cheers


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I don’t advocate taking away the guns from those that already have them.  It’s a minuscule fraction of Americans who want to confiscate guns, but you don’t fucking understand “small fraction of a percentage” when you are stirring up fear the commie gun grabbers are coming after you.


Yeah.  Because they're  lying when they tell us they want to repeal the 2nd and take our guns.


NotfooledbyW said:


> In the Uvalde Texas massacre the shooter turned 18, bought two AR15s  and within a week murdered 19 kids and two teachers. And you gun whackos argue that raising the age to 21 would not save these kids.


Because we know how easy it is to buy an AR on the TX secondary market, and we know this kid could have easily killed as many people as he did with a pump-action shotgun.
Why do you not understand raising the age to buy an AR15 would not have saved these kids?


NotfooledbyW said:


> I advocate that there’s a waiting period, when  a young 18-year-old wants to purchase an assault rifle,...


It takes, on average, 7 months to go through the process to buy an assault rifle.


NotfooledbyW said:


> specifically those that have had no background in the use of firearms or does not have a genuine purpose or interest or need to have one. Because he wants one ain’t cutting it:


Your notion that someone's rights should be limited by your perception of need is, at best, absurd.


NotfooledbyW said:


> If there was just a 10 day waiting period in the Uvalde Texas massacre these kids would be out of schooom and alive and enjoying their summer just like you are probably about to do.


Unless he bought a shotgun.


NotfooledbyW said:


> So don’t give me your crap about what I don’t understand...


And yet, what you do not understand is so impossibly obvious.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 1, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Maybe I used the term incorrectly.  He scoffed at, and tried to defend actions considered immoral in his personal life, public life, actions of associated (admitted, and/or convicted), broke faith with his own oath of office and had party hacks defend and block negative action.  4 years of seeing the crap contributed to him loosing the 2020 election as well as the two impeachments.



Bull.  The only reason he lost the election is because of mail-in voting.  Mail-in draws the laziest and most politically ignorant to vote because you hand them a ballot on their kitchen table.  If they had to go out and vote, like any other election, they would have just stayed home looking for their welfare check in the mail.


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The point is that you have virtually no minorities in your country so you can't compare yours to ours given the fact people of color are the largest segment of criminals here.  It has nothing to do with guns, it has to do with the people.



Take a card from the Holy Roman Empire of German (=united) Nation and ask yourselve why this had been hundreds of nations in all colors and variations and very different sizes then you will perhaps lose the idea Germans are something like Prussian Borgs. And sure make people who came from foreign nations more mistakes than others - anything else would be absurde.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> And the reason that you suck as a human being in general is that you go absolutely nuts over preserving your constitutional freedom to choose what the toys you like to play with look like over the life and the rights of a 10-year-old child. The child has no choice in the matter of life or death.  You’re a petty cruel human being spoiled rotten beyond repair.  Sitting around With your gun nut pals justifying your nonsense and cruelty with the explanation that you’re saving the world from Commies. Jesus H Christ.



I'm just much more intelligent than you realizing that banning this nut case wouldn't have changed a damn thing.  An AR does not make anybody a killer.  They are a killer looking for what tools to use to kill. 

In your fairy tale land, if this kid didn't get an AR, he would have never killed anybody.  You see the difference between you and me is I live in reality whereas you don't.  Guns of any kind have no ability to make a law abiding citizen a killer.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> In your fairy tale land, if this kid didn't get an AR, he would have never killed anybody


I have never said anything like that. You are a liar. If you’re so intelligent why can’t you get your argument to be truthful?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I have never said anything like that. You are a liar. If you’re so intelligent why can’t you get your argument to be truthful?


-I- did
See post # 766.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Guns of any kind have no ability to make a law abiding citizen a killer.


Of course they don’t.


----------



## Nostra (Jun 1, 2022)

scruffy said:


> lol
> 
> My truck wouldn't fit in that garage.
> 
> Look at that thing, the front door is taller than it is! You'd be lucky to fit a Smart car in there!


Looks like a sardine can stood on it's end.


----------



## Blues Man (Jun 1, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Guns are like a drug - how the USA shows to everyone worldwide. Your whole nation is dominated from the belief in this drug. And if you listen how drug addicts defend their drugs and how gun addicts defend their guns then you are not able to hear a big structural difference.


Guns are not like drugs.
Guns are tools


----------



## Blues Man (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I don’t advocate taking away the guns from those that already have them.  It’s a minuscule fraction of Americans who want to confiscate guns, but you don’t fucking understand “small fraction of a percentage” when you are stirring up fear the commie gun grabbers are coming after you. In the Uvalde Texas massacre the shooter turned 18, bought two AR15s  and within a week murdered 19 kids and two teachers. And you gun whackos argue that raising the age to 21 would not save these kids. You are absurd. Sure two years from now he might’ve done the same thing but what are  the odds of that?  He would probably be convicted of a less deadly felony by then.
> 
> I advocate that there’s a waiting period, when  a young 18-year-old wants to purchase an assault rifle, specifically those that have had no background in the use of firearms or does not have a genuine purpose or interest or need to have one. Because he wants one ain’t cutting it:
> 
> ...


A waiting period won't make any difference.


----------



## White 6 (Jun 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Bull.  The only reason he lost the election is because of mail-in voting.  Mail-in draws the laziest and most politically ignorant to vote because you hand them a ballot on their kitchen table.  If they had to go out and vote, like any other election, they would have just stayed home looking for their welfare check in the mail.


Why did he not attract much mail in vote to vote for him?  They voted for somebody, based on what they perceived to be the correct choice for whatever reason.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 1, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Why did he not attract much mail in vote to vote for him?  They voted for somebody, based on what they perceived to be the correct choice for whatever reason.



Is that what they did?  The guys son was under FBI investigation for a crooked business deal he too was involved in.  That's not to mention all the shady deals his family had with people making them wealthy.  He virtually promised us record fuel prices.  He preached about his open border policy and promised to stop the building of the wall.  People sadly watched as this confused old man couldn't even face the direction of the stage.  His rallies had less than five cars in one instance, and nobody came out to hear him speak.  And you mean to tell me he got the most votes in history without most of the voters being stupid? 

I'm sorry, but it defies all logic.  We are talking about lazy and politically ignorant voters here. 









						FLASHBACK: 16% of Biden voters would have voted differently if Hunter Biden laptop story was not suppressed by media, big tech
					

A poll previously put out by the Media Research Center showed that fully 16 percent of voters who were unaware of the Hunter Biden laptop scandal would have switched their minds and not voted for Joe Biden for president, had they known about it at the time.




					thepostmillennial.com


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I have never said anything like that. You are a liar. If you’re so intelligent why can’t you get your argument to be truthful?



I am 100% truthful.  You are the one running around here stating that this could have been prevented by not allowing this guy to have access to ARs.  I (and others here) are telling you he would have found a different weapon to use, just like all the people who have felonies and still get guns.  

Now if that's not your stance, then please explain why you keep stating it's a choice between 18 year olds getting AR's and these kids getting killed.


----------



## scruffy (Jun 1, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> After you read what I said to you and you still give this totally stupid "answer" (=hate attack) it is totally clear for me now that never anyone of your family had anything to do with Switzerland. A Swiss reacts on critics with arguments and not with an unmotivated hate attack. So I think you are a liar. And for me it's also totally clear that you are a Nazi on your own.



This from YOU ?

This is what YOU said:

"Then everyone is an idiot".

And you wonder why the Swiss People think YOU are the idiot? 

You're worse than an idiot, you're totally retarded if you think anyone's going to swallow your bullshit.

You're just another bigoted leftist dimwit. It doesn't matter what COUNTRY you're from, fuckface. You're here dissing me and my people because we believe in defending ourselves. From the likes of YOU.

So you know what? You can go fuck yourself. Next time you need to be rescued from your own Nazi and Stasi leaders, don't come looking to us, we'll be busy.


----------



## scruffy (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Tell your statistics to each parent : family in person who lost a loved one and let me know what they think of them. You asshole


You're still a retarded leftist idiot, no matter how many times you repeat the bleating heart bullshit.

The simple fact is, ANOTHER retarded leftist moron murdered a bunch of kids, and you're running away from the fact that he was a leftist moron (probably on antidepressants) and you're trying to blame his weapon.

Your bullshit won't fly pal, it's that simple. 

If you're THAT fucking stupid to where you can't even discern the truth, you have no business being in this discussion.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 1, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> See post # 766.


Bullshit! I said if Texas had a 21-year-old purchase requirements he would not have murdered those kids.  I also said it’s possible he would kill them two years later, some other kids , but you never know. You are therefore a liar. You have to lie. Your argument is absurd.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Bullshit! I said if Texas had a 21-year-old purchase requirements he would not have murdered those kids.


You did.
And your statement is as false then as it is now, as I demonstrated in that post.
Why do you continue to make false statements?


----------



## Sandy Shanks (Jun 1, 2022)

*After San Bernardino nothing changed. After Orlando nothing changed. Hard to believe, but Robb Elementary is not the worst school shooting. Sandy Hook Elementary is. Of course, nothing changed after Sandy Hook, either.

 The NRA sponsored Republican Party will not permit changes to be made.*

The coverup has already begun in Republican controlled Texas. Most of the kids haven't been buried yet.

Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District Police Chief Pete Arredondo was secretly sworn in as a city council member Tuesday night.

"Out of respect for the families who buried their children today, and who are planning to bury their children in the next few days, no ceremony was held," Uvalde Mayor Don McLaughlin said in a statement obtained by ABC News.

Republican Governor Abbott is calling for meetings in an effort to pretend something is being done.

"In a letter sent on Wednesday, Abbott requested that both Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick (R) and the state’s House Speaker Dade Phelan (R) each convene a special legislative committee to address the shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde," _The Hill_ reported.

The Uvalde Police Department and the Uvalde Independent School District police force are no longer cooperating with the Texas Department of Public Safety's investigation into the massacre at Robb Elementary School and the state's review of the law enforcement response, multiple law enforcement sources told ABC News.

The Uvalde police chief and a spokesperson for the Uvalde Independent School District did not immediately respond to requests for comment from ABC News.

"According to sources, the decision to stop cooperating occurred soon after the director of DPS, Col. Steven McCraw, held a news conference Friday during which he said the delayed police entry into the classroom was "the wrong decision" and contrary to protocol." ABC.

On the Senate front matters are looking just as dire, or worse. For decades NRA sponsored Senate Republicans have blocked meaningful gun reform. It appears they will be doing it again.

CNN reports, "Mitch McConnell was asked about the ongoing talks over gun control legislation in the US Senate during an appearance in Kentucky on Wednesday.

"And his answer made clear why betting on something significant getting passed – even in the wake of the Uvalde school shooting – *is still pretty unlikely*."

“We have a Second Amendment to the Constitution. We take it seriously. There’s the right to keep and bear arms in this country,” McConnell said. “And so what I’ve done is encourage some bipartisan discussions that are going on. In fact, I just had a call with one of the members of it to see if we can find a way forward consistent with the Second Amendment that targets the problem.”

That is political gibberish so typical of McConnell. He is the master at talking, but saying nothing. Clearly, his primary concern is the Second Amendment and "the right to keep and bear arms in this country,” not the 19 kids and two teacher who were murdered at an elementary school.

Republicans are expected to win control of Congress in the November mid-terms.


----------



## Sandy Shanks (Jun 1, 2022)

Sandy Shanks said:


> *That is political gibberish so typical of McConnell. He is the master at talking, but saying nothing. Clearly, his primary concern is the Second Amendment and "the right to keep and bear arms in this country,” not the 19 kids and two teacher who were murdered at an elementary school.*


The _Times_ reports, "Multiple people were shot and four people, including the gunman, were killed on Wednesday afternoon at a medical building in Tulsa, Okla., the Tulsa police said.

"The assailant, who was armed with a rifle, was dead, according to Capt. Richard Meulenberg of the Tulsa Police Department, who said he was not sure if the police had shot him or if he had shot himself."

*Shots rang out across the country over the Memorial Day weekend, with more than a dozen mass shootings in the span of 72 hours.*

NBC reports, "According to the Gun Violence Archive, which tracks shootings in the United States, there were at least 14 "mass shootings" in the country over the weekend, from early Saturday to late Monday.

"The archive defines a mass shooting as an incident in which "four or more people are shot or killed, not including the shooter."


----------



## scruffy (Jun 1, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> You did.
> And your statement is as false then as it is now, as I demonstrated in that post.
> Why do you continue to make false statements?


He's a leftie. That's what they do.


----------



## JWBooth (Jun 1, 2022)

#FJB


----------



## JWBooth (Jun 1, 2022)




----------



## Nostra (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Bullshit! I said if Texas had a 21-year-old purchase requirements he would not have murdered those kids.  I also said it’s possible he would kill them two years later, some other kids , but you never know. You are therefore a liar. You have to lie. Your argument is absurd.


What a clown you are.

You make the YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE assumption this cross-dressing nutbag wouldn't get his guns illegally because of a law when he is getting them to ignore the law against murder.  You are as much of a nutbag as the cross-dressing kid killer.


----------



## JusticeHammer (Jun 1, 2022)

Biden is a retarded fool.


----------



## JWBooth (Jun 1, 2022)




----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 1, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> You did.
> And your statement is as false then as it is now,


You are a liar. My statement is absolutely true. Ramos bought two AR15s legally at the age of 18. There was no seven month waiting period.

He did not choose a shotgun  he chose two assault rifles.  He had an obsession with using an assault rifle. It was too easy to feed his obsession .  You have no way of knowing he would have used a shotgun .You are a liar



M14 Shooter said:


> Why do you not understand raising the age to buy an AR15 would not have saved these kids?



you don’t know that, hence you are a liar.



M14 Shooter said:


> Unless he bought a shotgun.


He didn’t buy a shotgun.

The problem is you,  You won’t try anything to save a kid’s life if it’s to be death by bullet or pellets.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 1, 2022)

Nostra said:


> You make the YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE assumption this cross-dressing nutbag wouldn't get his guns illegally because of a law when he is getting them to ignore the law



Are you making an assumption at all jackass?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 1, 2022)

Nostra said:


> What a clown you are.
> 
> You make the YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE assumption this cross-dressing nutbag wouldn't get his guns illegally because of a law when he is getting them to ignore the law against murder.  You are as much of a nutbag as the cross-dressing kid killer.



It didn't seem he listened to the law about killing innocent kids.  Why would he listen to a law about legal firearm ownership?


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 1, 2022)

Nostra said:


> wouldn't get his guns illegally because of a law when he is getting them to ignore the law against murder.



Again if all the same guns are easily available illegally why are illegal guns out there if only law abiding citizens buy them and take care of them? You do not appear to comply with the SA because a well regulated militia wouid not allow its weapons fall into the hands of the criminals.


Ray From Cleveland said:


> It didn't seem he listened to the law about killing innocent kids. Why would he listen to a law about legal firearm ownership?



You are a liar, He followed the law because he had to wait to reach the legal age to buy his weapon of choice.

He waited 8 months to turn 18 and within a couple weeks of his birthday 19 kids are dead because the law is 18 not 21. He did not by an illegal weapon during those 8 months. We wont know what he would have done if Texas had a 21 yr age limit but it looks like the legal age in Texas to purchase AR15s played a definite role in killing 19 kids.

Deranged Texas killer Salvador Ramos had been trying to buy a gun for at least eight months — and openly chatted about his reputation as a likely school shooter in social media messages posted in the months before Tuesday’s attack, officials announced Friday.​







						Texas school shooter Salvador Ramos tried to buy gun for 8 months
					

Texas killer Salvador Ramos had been trying to buy a gun for at least eight months — and openly chatted about his reputation as a likely school shooter on social media.




					nypost.com
				


​“Ramos asked his sister to help him buy a gun” as far back as Sept. 21, Texas Department of Public Safety director Col. Steven McCraw announced Friday as he detailed the killer’s online activity.​


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 1, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You are a liar, He followed the law because he had to wait to reach the legal age to buy his weapon of choice.
> 
> He waited 8 months to turn 18 and within a couple weeks of his birthday 19 kids are dead because the law is 18 not 21. He did not by an illegal weapon during those 8 months. We wont know what he would have done if Texas had a 21 yr age limit but it looks like the legal age in Texas to purchase AR15s played a definite role in killing 19 kids.
> 
> ...



It's one thing to wait a few months and quite another to wait a few years.  As you stated during that time he tried to buy other guns but he was not desperate.  By the time he exhausted all his legal resources he was almost 18.  

19 kids are not dead because of any stupid law.  19 kids are dead because you had a psycho killer on the loose nobody knew about.  Your unfounded claim is no different than the clowns that come to these gun topics and insist people would not commit suicide if they didn't have access to a gun.  The kid was raised in a drug addict family and smoked pot himself.  Why don't you blame illegal narcotics while you're at it?


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 2, 2022)

scruffy said:


> "Then everyone is an idiot".
> 
> And you wonder why the Swiss People think YOU are the idiot?



If everyone in the USA has a gun then everyone in the USA is an idiot. The Swiss are not married with their rifles, anti-Swiss. Every Swiss who had been a soldier has a rifle on reason someone will attack Switzerland and he has to become a soldier again. From time to time they have also a military training. And a normal Swiss will not understand your absurde level of aggressions on not any reason to have to be aggressive.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Wow $4000 a day laying in bed. -  Jesus really LOVED you
> 
> 
> Great for you - I don’t need that much but this is for certain “Shared Misery” is not on my road to happiness. it’s appearing to be you suffer the unhinged delusion of a wealthy but arrogant perpetual asshole who worships guns.
> ...


Considerably more than that actually.

Obama's idiotic energy policies made my oil leases much more valuable than they had been so when I renewed some of them I hit enough money to retire comfortably at 50 and donate the bulk of my income to charity.

Several more have come up for renewal in the last few months and they are now paying considerably more.

A half interest in a 10-40bbl well is paying very handsomely right now and the bonus payments for signing renewals were even nicer.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Again if all the same guns are easily available illegally why are illegal guns out there if only law abiding citizens buy them and take care of them? You do not appear to comply with the SA because a well regulated militia would not allow its weapons fall into the hands of the criminals.


Because you idiot over half a million firearms are stolen annually in the US.

A great many of those guns in fact are stolen from National Guard and active duty bases, manufacturers, wholesalers and police agencies as well as from their vehicles.

Only about 10% of guns used in crimes are legally possessed by the criminals using them.









						Where do criminals really get their guns?
					

On average, just under 40,000 people each year die across the country in a gun-related death. So where do criminals typically buy their guns? And do most criminals seek out their weapons of choice through means, not above board?




					www.foxnews.com
				












						US Military Guns Keep Vanishing. Some Are Later Used in Street Crimes
					

An Associated Press investigation has found that at least 1,900 U.S. military firearms were lost or stolen over the last decade.




					www.nbcnewyork.com
				






			https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article191206654.html
		


So much for your "Well Regulated Militia" BS.









						Law Enforcement's Lost and Stolen Gun Problem
					

Police departments’ uneven storage rules have put deadly weapons into the hands of criminals.




					www.thetrace.org
				












						Miami PD Reports 11 AR-15s Stolen From Police Property
					

Almost a month after reporting 23 AR-15 rifles missing from police property, the Miami Police Department still hasn't found them all.




					www.miaminewtimes.com
				












						FedEx employee arrested on suspicion of stealing package containing 10 guns
					

A 30-year-old Hesperia man was arrested on suspicion of stealing a package containing 10 handguns, San Bernardino County Sheriff’s officials reported.




					news.yahoo.com


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I had employer sponsored health insurance all of my working life until that Kenyan lawn jockey showed up



Be a man, stand up for yourself. Tell your boss to take his job and shove it. You really must not have any marketable  skills amidst this time of shortage of labor. Or they don’t hire skinheads in your area.


So much for your "Well Regulated Militia"


Big Bend Texas said:


> Because you idiot over half a million firearms are stolen annually in the US.


BS.

Don’t try to tell me ever again that America’s gun owners are responsible and safe gun owners. That’s bullshit. Half a million guns stolen annually. That’s bullshit! shame on you people. All the violence you allow to take place it’s probably on purpose so you can justify manufacturing and selling  more guns. Do you get a kick back from Daniels when you leave you assault rifle out there somewhere for a criminal to steal.

So if Ramos had stolen an AR15  - 1somewhere out there is a law abiding citizen who is careless snd therefore an accessory to the mass murder of 19 children.

You hillbillies know that a stolen gun could be used in the next mass shooting  and you dont know how to store and protect your firearms fro theft  but you want us non-gun owners to believe you are the best to protect kids in school. You are getting more absurd as we go.deeper into this,

Ray From Cleveland  should get a job from Big Bend Texas - he makes $4,000 a day and you both are gun hillbillies. I’m sure he pays employees well including top benefits making that a day before rolling out of bed with guns in  both hands.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Be a man, stand up for yourself. Tell your boss to take his job and shove it. You really must not have any marketing skills and this time of shortage of labor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You must be smoking the Crystal Drain O again.









						Up to 600,000 guns are stolen every year in the US – that's one every minute
					

Data shows thefts of firearms from vehicles are rising in many large cities. One gun swiped from a truck in Atlanta was used in three crimes, including murder




					www.theguardian.com
				












						How many guns are stolen every year?
					

Some thieves may even use guns that have been reported lost or stolen to commit other crimes while still avoiding arrest for other offenses.




					onlyslightlybiased.com
				




Considering a good portion of them are stolen from police, military, and guard stockpiles along with others being stolen from manufacturers, wholesalers, and retailers your entire premise is pure ignorance and prejudice.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Be a man, stand up for yourself. Tell your boss to take his job and shove it. You really must not have any marketable  skills amidst this time of shortage of labor. Or they don’t hire skinheads in your area.
> 
> 
> So much for your "Well Regulated Militia"
> ...


Even banks, Military and Guard Armories, Police armories and evidence warehouses get robbed you retard.

I guess then according to you everyone is irresponsible.


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 2, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Guns are not like drugs.
> Guns are tools



Guns are little machines which spit out or spray out little pieces of metal. Boring! Very boring machines! Or do you know anything what you can repair with guns? Guns produce irreversible destructions!


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> I guess then according to you everyone is irresponsible.



If trained police and military individuals cannot be trusted or responsible enough to keep their firearms from being stolen by criminals and then used against unarmed civilians and their fellow officer then why should we let any hillbilly who will treat a gun like a tv remote by any more guns at all.


----------



## Lurchadams (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> We will get $2400 /month easy with no mortgage = $1400 income  so why would we rent it to a hillbilly who thinks gun buyers have more rights than ten year olds  have a right to live.


Love it!


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 2, 2022)

JusticeHammer said:


> Biden is a retarded fool.


... says a mass-retarded fool? Or did you play a thoughtful poker game with him so you had to went home in your intellectual underwear?


----------



## scruffy (Jun 2, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> ... says a mass-retarded fool? Or did you play a thoughtful poker game with him so you had to went home in your intellectual underwear?


See? ^^^

And this dumb leftist fucktard is complaining to me about being polite.

What an asshole.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> If trained police and military individuals cannot be trusted or responsible enough to keep their firearms from being stolen by criminals and then used against unarmed civilians and their fellow officer *then why should we let any hillbilly who will treat a gun like a tv remote by any more guns at all.*


The constant stream of fabricated bullshit coming from your keyboard shows your complete dishonesty in discussing the subject.


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 2, 2022)

scruffy said:


> See? ^^^
> 
> And this dumb leftist fucktard is complaining to me about being polite.
> 
> What an asshole.



I am an asshole because you try to hurt your real existing president Joe Biden with stupid political mass-propaganda from your "noble" elitarian fake-president Donald Trump?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Guns are little machines which spit out or spray out little pieces of metal. Boring! Very boring machines! Or do you know anything what you can repair with guns? Guns produce irreversible destructions!


They protect my property, family, and myself and put a whole lot of quality meat on the table for us every year.

That enables me to donate several thousand pounds of quality meats to charities every year.

You've obviously never done any shooting or you'd learn in a hurry that there's nothing at all boring about the shooting sports.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> I am an asshole because you try to hurt your real existing president Joe Biden with stupid political mass-propaganda from your "noble" elitarian fake-president Donald Trump?


No, you're simply an asshole because that's your nature and you weren't corrected enough as a child.


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 2, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> They protect my property, family, and myself and put a whole lot of quality meat on the table for us every year.



What I doubt about. Many people became victims of their own weapons. And in what absurde country do you live where your property and life of your family depends on your ability to use guns? Time to change something in your country I would say.



Big Bend Texas said:


> That enables me to donate several thousand pounds of quality meats to charities every year.
> 
> You've obviously never done any shooting



Exactly. I studied a Japanese form of self-defense for one year when I was young. But not on reason of self-defense - I studied it on reason of opportunity and fascination. I'm astonished how this helps me also today - decades later - when I have to react very fast with my body in the best of all possible ways.



Big Bend Texas said:


> or you'd learn in a hurry that there's nothing at all boring about the shooting sports.



Kyudo for example is a fascinating shooting sport. Also some sports with special rifles and guns are also interesting. But who for heavens sake sells war weapons to an 18 years old child during a brain reconstruction phase without any military need to have do so and without to learn the same time - if psychologically able to do so - in a qualified military training the basic rules of military discipline? Even the weapon "car" needs a license - although this weapon is much more harmless than any war gun.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> What I doubt about. Many people became victsim of their own weapons. And in whaqt absurde country do you lopive wher you property and life of your family depends on your ability sot use guns? Time to change somethiong in your country I would say.


You need some serious tutoring in English if you're ever going to have any hope of making sense.

Let's start with getting rid of all democrats and their supporters, that would solve about 90% of the problem in the first year.

I have guns that are 300 plus years old and guns that were manufactured this year.

None of them however has harmed myself or anyone in my family so I'm really not concerned that one of them will jump up off of the table our out of the safe to hold us hostage or murder us.

My county is overrun with illegals, coyotes, and drug mules and thanks to Biden it will only get worse instead of better.

Our little town however has one of the lowest crime rates in the country largely due to the fact that at any given time half the adults are carrying on their person and most of the rest in their vehicles.

We have zero tolerance for crime and the criminals know it and understand that the risk prison, life, and limb should the attempt to commit a crime in town.

We have little to nothing to fear from any of them because we are prepared to deal with all of them should they choose to act up.

Fortunately Texas has very "User Friendly", gun and self defense laws so unlike many of the northern states, the bad guys understand the odds are not in their favor.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> But wh frp ehasn sake sake sells war weapons to an 18 years old child during a brain reconstruciton phase without any military need to have do so and without to learn the same time


We don't sell war weapons to teenagers.  Stop peddling lies.


----------



## scruffy (Jun 2, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> I am an asshole because you try to hurt your real existing president Joe Biden with stupid political mass-propaganda from your "noble" elitarian fake-president Donald Trump?


No, you're a stupid retarded asshole because you claim I'm trying to "hurt my President".

You're just like every other dimwitted leftard, you have nothing of substance so you sling mud instead.

If you think American politics is about Trump vs Biden you're just ignorant. I'm libertarian, do you know what that is? I don't like Trump OR Biden, but that doesn't mean I'm trying to hurt them. (Besides, they do a good enough job of that themselves, I couldn't possibly do any better).

I want you to keep your stupid leftist butt away from my kids and out of our politics. You have no business calling Americans idiots or telling us how to conduct our affairs. We don't look up to Europeans and we don't want to be like them.


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 2, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> You need some serious tutoring in English



No. English is unimportant for me. I use it only because you don't speak German.



Big Bend Texas said:


> if you're ever going to have any hope of making sense.
> 
> Let's start with getting rid of all democrats and their supporters,



What's by the way a Nazi-statement if you woudl use the German language. And even in your own language you should use the expression "Democrats" instead of the expresison "democrats" because you thjemeberis ot the political party "The Democrats" are not representing all democrats.



Big Bend Texas said:


> that would solve about 90% of the problem in the first year.



If you like to eliminate people you need weapons. If you like to eliminate bad ideas - such as to carry weapons in public - you need knowledge.



Big Bend Texas said:


> I have guns that are 300 plus years old and guns that were manufactured this year.



The Earth here is often red from iron. Iron from thousands of years of the totally senseless use of murderous swords - and iron from thousands of years of the totally sensefull use of ploughshares.



Big Bend Texas said:


> None of them however has harmed myself or anyone in my family



I do not believe this. This weapons had/have/will have  for sure an unhealthy influence in your family.



Big Bend Texas said:


> so I'm really not concerned that one of them will jump up off of the table our out of the safe to hold us hostage or murder us.



I hope you will never make this experience. But somehow your weapons infiltrate your brain.



Big Bend Texas said:


> My county is overrun with illegals, coyotes,



Wonderful animals



Big Bend Texas said:


> and drug mules and thanks to Biden it will only get worse instead of better.



Do you think you personally would be a better president of the USA?



Big Bend Texas said:


> Our little town however has one of the lowest crime rates in the country



Funny. So why do you compensate your fear with guns?



Big Bend Texas said:


> largely due to the fact that at any given time half the adults are carrying on their person and most of the rest in their vehicles.



Be happy that a stranger like I would not visit your hell city of senseless fear.



Big Bend Texas said:


> We have zero tolerance for crime and the criminals know it and understand that the risk prison, life, and limb should the attempt to commit a crime in town.



You think it exist criminals and heroes. Heroes are you and your people - criminals are strange-rs. I think "heroes" are often nothing else than criminals.



Big Bend Texas said:


> We have little to nothing to fear from any of them because we are prepared to deal with all of them should they choose to act up.
> 
> Fortunately Texas has very "User Friendly", gun and self defense laws so unlike many of the northern states, the bad guys understand the odds are not in their favor.



Texas is a myth - but looks like it is a dead place for the really living. By the way: Is it really true that today the people of Texas drive from climatized houses with climatized cars into climatized malls and back? May it be you are perfect seddlers for a  seddling project on planet Mars? But what if someone of you is using guns in a starship or within the shield of a seddlement on planet Mars?


----------



## Blues Man (Jun 2, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Guns are little machines which spit out or spray out little pieces of metal. Boring! Very boring machines! Or do you know anything what you can repair with guns? Guns produce irreversible destructions!



You are more boring than any gun I have ever used.

And I guess I'm using mine wrong because I have never used my firearms to produce "irreversible destruction"


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 2, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> We don't sell war weapons to teenagers.  Stop peddling lies.



Someone murdered - again and again and again such things happen - with war weapons 19+2 other human beings and hurted much more. The parents of the victims for example and their comrades. I pray for them. But not for you in this case and your unreal view to our wounded world.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> We sepoakl her beaie agaons ashcol schsctign diodinahjen where an 1998 aaers odl hijmanegbin use war epwen t murder 19+2 other human brgins and hurted much more. The parents of the vicirons fro exaoel adn their comrades. I püarty frpo them. But not for you in this case and your unreal view to our wounded world.


Ok it seems you've gone from Smoking the Drain O to drinking it.


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 2, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> You are more boring than any gun I have ever used.



I am not a "guy you have ever used". What shows by the way an interesting aspect of your machine mind loving machine guns.



Blues Man said:


> And I guess I'm using mine wrong because I have never used my firearms to produce "irreversible destruction"



How did you repair what you shot on?


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 2, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Ok it seems you've gone from Smoking the Drain O to drinking it.



OK - you lost by doing an intellectual suicide now. Unfortunatelly it's totally unimportant to win against you.


----------



## Blues Man (Jun 2, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> I am not a "guy you have ever used". What shows by the way an interesting aspect of your machine mind loving machine guns.
> 
> 
> 
> How did you repair what you shot on?


I don't repair  steel or paper targets or clay skeet pigeons

Why would I?


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> The constant stream of fabricated bullshit coming from your keyboard shows your complete dishonesty in discussing the subject



Lacing up your running shoes I see Big Gun Man in TEXAS.


Before you run away again, is the following true ir false?

Trump attempted to use fake electors from seven states that Biden won to force Mike Pence to deny counting those seven states which was an attempt to throw the 2020 election into chaos on Jan6.

And do you agree that the lawful gun owner, Stewart Rhodes, the founder of the Oath keepers, should be convicted of the Seditious Conspiracy charges against him for the role he played in helping Trump create chaos on Jan6 to stay in power.

And this is all related to Uvalde because the NRA refused entry to the PROUD BOYS at the Gun Nut convention following this mass murder.  Is that something new? The Proud Boys had nothing to do with killing 19 ten year olds in a classroom. Could it be the NRA Is “woke” to the fact that it’s membership supports with fervent enthusiasm President Trump’s conspiracy and attempt on Jan6 to create election chaos on Jan6 resulting in US House Members on the GOP and God’s GUNS and GUTS side to vote in a 26 to 24 Republican majority the re-election of Trump and Pence to the White House?


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 2, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> I don't repair  steel or paper targets or clay skeet pigeons
> 
> Why would I?



Because you would learn in this case something about irreversibility and transcience and this could help you not to stay to be a slave of guns and their wrong prophets.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Considerably more than that actually.





Big Bend Texas said:


> That enables me to donate several thousand pounds of quality meats to charities every year.





Big Bend Texas said:


> Our little town however has one of the lowest crime rates in the country largely due to the fact that at any given time half the adults are carrying on their person and most of the rest in their vehicles.



Is your little town an oil based economy like Vladimir Putin’s Russia? Are others living there as as oil rich as you and Putin? What industry drives the wealth of your little TEXAS town UTOPIA besides oil and cattle?


----------



## Blues Man (Jun 2, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Because you would learn in this case something about irreversibility and transcience and this could help you not to stay to be a slave of guns and their wrong prophets.


Do you try to "repair" paper that you "irreversibly" damage?

And in case you don't realize this a gun is an inanimate object incapable of performing the acts you think it does.


----------



## Resnic (Jun 2, 2022)

Ok he blames gun, and I blame criminals.

If you take away guns you still are left with criminals. Taking away guns doesn't actually solve any problems because if you do all the bad guys are still here ready, willing and able to do some bad shit.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> OK - you lost by doing an intellectual suicide now. Unfortunatelly it's totally unimportant to win against you.


Your gibberish was nonsensical garbage.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Lacing up your running shoes I see Big Gun Man in TEXAS.
> 
> 
> Befure you run away again, is the following true ir false?
> ...


Sorry but this babbling rant is just too much garbage to wade through this morning.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Sorry but this babbling rant is just too much garbage to wade through this morning.


Take your time I’m retired too, but I have a consulting job to get finished for the pittance of an income compared to yours. Just don’t run?


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 2, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Do you try to "repair" paper that you "irreversibly" damage?
> 
> And in case you don't realize this a gun is an inanimate object incapable of performing the acts you think it does.



I live in other time dimensions than you do. Slow down! Try to understand!


_Ein meister las
Troum unde spiegelglas
Daz sie zem winde
Bi der staete sin gezalt
Loup unde gras
Daz ie min fröide was
Swiez nu erwinde
[Iz] dunket mich also gestalt

Dar zuo der bluomen manicvalt
Diu heide rot, der grüene walt
Der vogele sanc ein truric ende hat
So we dir, Werlt, wie dirz gebende stat

Dar zuo der linde
Süeze und linde
So we dir, Werlt, wie dirz gebende stat
So we dir, Werlt, wie dirz gebende stat
Ein meister las
Troum unde spiegelglas
Daz sie zem winde
Bi der staete sin gezalt
Loup unde gras
Daz ie min fröide was
Swiez nu erwinde
[Iz] dunket mich also gestalt

Heiliger Krist
Sit du gewaltic bist
Der werlte gemeine
Die nach dir gebildet sint
Gib mir den list
Daz ich in kurzer frist
Alsam gemeine
Dich sam diniu erwelten kint

Ich was mit sehenden ougen blint
Und aller guoten dinge ein kint
Swie mine missetat der werlte hal
Mache mich reine

Ich was mit sehenden ougen blint
Und aller guoten dinge ein kint
Swie mine missetat der werlte hal
Mache mich reine
E min gebeine
Versenke sich in daz verlorne tal 
Versenke sich in daz verlorne tal 
Versenke sich in daz verlorne tal _


----------



## Blues Man (Jun 2, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> I live in other time dimensions than you do. Slow down! Try to understand!
> 
> 
> _Ein meister las
> ...


No you really don't.

If you were actually living in another dimension you wouldn't be typing this nonsense to me


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 2, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> No you really don't.
> 
> If you were actually living in another dimension you wouldn't be typing this nonsense to me


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 2, 2022)

Resnic said:


> Ok he blames gun, and I blame criminals.
> 
> If you take away guns you still are left with criminals. Taking away guns doesn't actually solve any problems because if you do all the bad guys are still here ready, willing and able to do some bad shit.



Now you've done it, confusing the leftists.  

Their belief is if you make sure they get no AR's, you will turn homicidal maniacs into sane law-abiding citizens.  After all, what fun is it killing a bunch of kids in school unless you have an AR or AK?  You might as well get a job, invest your money, or stay home and watch reruns of South Park.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 2, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> What I doubt about. Many people became victims of their own weapons. And in what absurde country do you live where your property and life of your family depends on your ability to use guns? Time to change something in your country I would say.



And what would you suggest?  We lock people up for committing crimes.  Throughout the years our liberal judges turned prisons into lowlife playgrounds, so criminals don't have a huge fear of being locked up.  Most of them have been in prison before.  The police are only good AFTER a crime is committed.  Up to that point you can only defend yourself and family against an attacker.  How does one do that against an armed criminal?  




zaangalewa said:


> Exactly. I studied a Japanese form of self-defense for one year when I was young. But not on reason of self-defense - I studied it on reason of opportunity and fascination. I'm astonished how this helps me also today - decades later - when I have to react very fast with my body in the best of all possible ways.



I'm a black belt in Kenpo.  One of the lessons they teach you is there is no reasonable way to defend yourself against a person with a gun.  If they have the gun and you don't, you lost that battle.  They're either going to seriously injure or kill you, or otherwise take all your personal belongings.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 2, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> I am an asshole because you try to hurt your real existing president Joe Biden with stupid political mass-propaganda from your "noble" elitarian fake-president Donald Trump?



Yes, hurt Joe Biden because he's Fn up our country worse than any President in the last 50 years.  What do you think our politics in this country is about anyway?  That's what we do here, we put down the other side so we can gain victory and restore this country back to normal.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Their belief is if you make sure they get no AR's, you will turn homicidal maniacs into sane law-abiding citizens


You are a liar. That is not the left’s argument or belief. There’s no such thing as a law abiding homicidal maniac. They become homicidal maniacs when they kill. As more massacres occur it is apparent that some of these law-abiding citizens have some psychological attachment to using weapons that are also used in war to kill with. So one possible path to curtailing a killer like Ramos from waiting and planning and abiding by the law until his 18th birthday to buy the gun of his fantasies and delusions that would make him a killer is to slow the process way down. For fucks sake if Ramos had to wait seven months to get his assault rifle those kids would at least be alive in Uvalde because ramose was already waiting eight months until he could purchase the weapon of his dreams himself and legally. 

I’m saying when a young kid with no firearms background or training walks into a gun shop and wants to buy two AR fifteens a fucking red flag goes up as something slows the process down. THAT is basically the left position so quit your lying. I know you have to lie to have an argument but please just stop it


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 2, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Guns are little machines which spit out or spray out little pieces of metal. Boring! Very boring machines! Or do you know anything what you can repair with guns? Guns produce irreversible destructions!



Yes they do, and that's what I'll do to a criminal intending to cause me harm, produce irreversible destruction to him.  That's what makes him think twice about causing harm to me in the first place.  

According to statistics, American citizens use their little machines that spit out pieces of metal between 1 and 4 million times a year for self-defense, to stop a crime, or to defend others.  Those little machines save lives of law abiding citizens every single day.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Be a man, stand up for yourself. Tell your boss to take his job and shove it. You really must not have any marketable skills amidst this time of shortage of labor. Or they don’t hire skinheads in your area.



I haven't worked in a few years since I got on disability.  It's too complicated to explain now, but I had to stay with small business which many also quit offering that benefit.  Why should I have to leave a job I liked because morons voted for this Kenyan lawn jockey as President?  I can't keep losing the game because we have so many people that are too stupid to vote.  

Look at the mess our country is in today.  Does it look like we have an intelligent electorate?  You have this joker who's been in federal politics for nearly a half-century, never had one major accomplishment, who's been busted plagiarizing in the past, who's drug addict son was under FBI investigation, who virtually promised us the gasoline and fuel prices we have today, and people voted for him in record numbers?  Does that sound like smart people voting in our country?  And why did they vote against a President that had as many positive accomplishments as Trump did?  Meanie Tweets.


----------



## Lurchadams (Jun 2, 2022)

badger2 said:


> As a CIA puppet, POSPOTUS already knows that the Texas-New Orleans shootings are not about guns, nor even his handlers supplying guns to Ukraine. Other weapons would be used if they were not available. As Gonzalo Lira has noted, America is collapsing due to apathy, an apathy that cancels the individual who will then look for the opportunity to get recognized. That is the pathology now being deliberately cultivated for furtherance of America's demise. Neither this POSPOTUS nor his handlers are your friend.


Nice try.  It's the guns. That's it.


----------



## JWBooth (Jun 2, 2022)

For a great laugh at the holopophobes give this a watch


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You are a liar. That is not the left’s argument or belief. There’s no such thing as a law abiding homicidal maniac. They become homicidal maniacs when they kill. As more massacres occur it is apparent that some of these law-abiding citizens have some psychological attachment to using weapons that are also used in war to kill with. So one possible path to curtailing a killer like Ramos from waiting and planning and abiding by the law until his 18th birthday to buy the gun of his fantasies and delusions that would make him a killer is to slow the process way down. For fucks sake if Ramos had to wait seven months to get his assault rifle those kids would at least be alive in Uvalde because ramose was already waiting eight months until he could purchase the weapon of his dreams himself and legally.
> 
> I’m saying when a young kid with no firearms background or training walks into a gun shop and wants to buy two AR fifteens a fucking red flag goes up as something slows the process down. THAT is basically the left position so quit your lying. I know you have to lie to have an argument but please just stop it



You are the prime example of the people I speak about.  Like this guy would have never went to a school to kill kids because he had to wait until he was 21 to buy an AR?  That's what you're saying.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You are the prime example of the people I speak about. Like this guy would have never went to a school to kill kids because he had to wait until he was 21 to buy an AR? That's what you're saying.


That is not what I’m saying. You are still a liar.

 I SAID

I’m saying when a young kid with no firearms background or training walks into a gun shop and wants to buy two AR fifteens, a fucking red flag goes up as something slows the process down.​
No one knows whether or not Ramos would’ve gotten his hands on some illegal guns and committed the massacre within a few days of his birthday. He would’ve at least have been occupied with finding a source to buy that illegal weapon. But what I’m saying is the minute he walked into the gun store intending to buy two AR fifteens , a red flag needs to go up about him.

But you insist his rights are more important than the rights of the kids to be alive. Because you’re scum . YOU ARE  gun scum. Not all gun owners ARE guns Scum,  But you are,  so live with it.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Kenyan lawn jockey


i voted for an American US Senator right about Iraq before the debacle was launched by your choice. 

You are a racist and you need to thank Clinton for the ADA.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Like this guy would have never went to a school to kill kids because he had to wait until he was 21 to buy an AR?


He waited for eight months,  before killing, to turn 18. We have a pattern here. Do you have your hateful gun buyers racist bullshit and that’s it.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> He waited for eight months,  before killing, to turn 18. We have a pattern here. Do you have your hateful gun buyers racist bullshit and that’s it.



Like I said, months and years are two different things.  During that 8 months he was experimenting with ways to get a gun but failed.  

It's entertaining how brainwashing works on the weak minded.  Every time you are losing a debate, run to that racist bullshit even though nobody is talking about race but you.  Big Brother has trained you well.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> That is not what I’m saying. You are still a liar.
> 
> I SAID
> 
> ...



Why would a red flag go up?  People buy more than one gun per visit all the time.  Who should have addressed this "red flag" you speak of?  You are making no sense whatsoever.  

So why don't you walk me through this process.   An 18 year old goes to buy more than one gun, and then what?  What would have given anybody a clue he was going to go into a school and kill children?  He's fascinated with guns.  One of them he paid over $2,000 for, so it may very well be he's starting a gun collection.


----------



## JWBooth (Jun 2, 2022)




----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Why would a red flag go up?


What an ignorant question you’re pathetic gun scum. Why wouldn’t one?


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> An 18 year old goes to buy more than one gun, and then what?



You can pay for it and then get an appointment for a test you will have to take just like student drivers have to do to get a drivers license. He should be willing to allow authorities local and state to review any social media content over the past five years.

Now we have another one of your law-abiding citizens in Tulsa easily buying an AR 15 so he could kill immediately following the purchase. All Thanks to no questions asked. It’s nobody else’s business, right? You are guns scum, and the worst. A doctor and three others are dead thank you Ray From Cleveland .


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> And why did they vote against a President that had as many positive accomplishments as Trump did?


Because he is a racist and the leader of a party that has a lot of racism in it that’s why black voters voted for Biden. So what gives you the right to cancel their votes because you’ve been fooled by the ConMan white nationalist Putin sidekick Trump.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You are a liar. My statement is absolutely true. Ramos bought two AR15s legally at the age of 18. There was no seven month waiting period.


The 7 moth waiting period is for assault rifles.
Pay attention.


NotfooledbyW said:


> He did not choose a shotgun  he chose two assault rifles.


He did not choose assault rifles.
If the age for AR15s had been 21, he could have bought a pump-action gun and killed just as many people.
And thus, your claim that he could not have committed this crime had the age to purchase an AR15 to 21 is proven false.

You can continue to make that claim, but it just means you choose to lie.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Are you making an assumption at all jackass?


Says the guy who -assumes- the shooter would not have bought a shot gun, had he not been able to get an AR15.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You do not appear to comply with the SA because a well regulated militia wouid not allow its weapons fall into the hands of the criminals.


Why do you believe the qwell-regulated militia has anyting to do with the exercise of the right o keep and bear arms by the people.?


NotfooledbyW said:


> You are a liar, He followed the law because he had to wait to reach the legal age to buy his weapon of choice.


And thus, purchased the gun legally.


NotfooledbyW said:


> He waited 8 months to turn 18 and within a couple weeks of his birthday 19 kids are dead because the law is 18 not 21. He did not by an illegal weapon during those 8 months. We wont know what he would have done if Texas had a 21 yr age limit ...


He could have bought a shotgun.
Thus, your claim that he could not have committed this crime had he not been able ot get an AR15 is false.
But you know this.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Be a man, stand up for yourself. Tell your boss to take his job and shove it. You really must not have any marketable  skills amidst this time of shortage of labor. Or they don’t hire skinheads in your area.


Why does insulting people you disagree with make you feel better about yourself?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I SAID
> I’m saying when a young kid with no firearms background or training walks into a gun shop and wants to buy two AR fifteens, a fucking red flag goes up as something slows the process down.​


Why?


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Says the guy who -assumes- the shooter would not have bought a shot gun, had he not been able to get an AR15.


I make an assumption based on the pattern that he waited for eight months before turning 18 and purging the weaponry  used to kill 19 kids.l


You are assuming that he would’ve waited until his birthday and then found out he could not buy an AR 15 legally so he goes  to the illegal market and then a few days he would be able to do the same exact thing. Your presumption is absurd based on no patterns of the shooters behavior.  Your assumption is based on your belief that the shooter has a bigger right when purchasing a gun than a kid has a right to live. You
Are guns  scum too.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Why?


If there is even a small fraction of a percent 10 year old can survive a day in a classroom then that’s why, gun scum


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I make an assumption based on the pattern that he waited for eight months before turning 18 and purging the weaponry  used to kill 19 kids.l


What about that fact supports your assumption he would not have bought a shotgun, had he not been able to purchase an AR?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> If there is even a small fraction of a percent 10 year old can survive a day in a classroom then that’s why, gun scum


You deliberately misunderstand the question.
Why would  18-yrs old purchasing 2 ARs at the same time raise red flags?
And then, why is this relevant?


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Why does insulting people you disagree with make you feel better about yourself?


You belong to the political party that gave us a president who lost his chance for reelection but tried to cancel my vote because I wanted him gone. I do want him gone. I voted legally to have him gone. He and your party tried to deny me the basic American voting right which is a bigger right than being able to buy a gun that looks like this or looks like that with no questions asked Because he wanted to play with it.

You’re a fucking snowflake worried about insults when you support a president that did that to 88 million American people.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> And then, why is this relevant?


There is a possibility that 19 kids snd two teachers in Uvalde Texas would not be dead right now, that’s why and that’s why it’s relevant


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You belong to the political party...


You avoided the question.
I'll ask again:
Why does insulting people you disagree with make you feel better about yourself?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> There is a possibility that 19 kids snd two teachers in Uvalde Texas would not be dead right now, that’s why and that’s why it’s relevant


You know he bought the two rifles several days apart, right?
So...  why is your "2-ARs-on-the-same-day-red-flag" argument relevant?


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Why does insulting people you disagree with make you feel better about yourself?


I told you it’s because of January 6 and what the scum you voted for President  attempted to do to me and 88 other million Biden voters.  

Do you think it’s insulting when the president you voted for tells me my vote will not count because it was not for him. I think it’s insulting to have Saddam Hussein or Vladimir Putin in the White House deciding that he has to stay to save the country.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> You avoided the question.


No you are avoiding my answer.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> So... why is your "2-ARs-on-the-same-day-red-flag" argument relevant?


It’s not two AR’s  on one day. It’s wanting to buy an assault rifle. The shooter just happened to want to buy two. This should raise a double red flag


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I told you it’s because of January 6 and what the scum you voted for President  attempted to do to me and 88 other million Biden voters.


Still waiting for you to explain why doing this makes you feel better about yourself.
Well?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> It’s not two AR’s  on one day. It’s wanting to buy an assault rifle. The shooter just happened to want to buy two. This should raise a double red flag


You said:
_I’m saying when a young kid with no firearms background or training walks into a gun shop and wants to buy two AR fifteens,_
That's 2 ARs in one day.   And thus, irrelevant.
And, AR are not assault rifles.   Thus, irrelevant.
So... your entire "red flag" argument is irrelevant.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I make an assumption based on the pattern that he waited for eight months before turning 18 and purging the weaponry  used to kill 19 kids.l


What about that fact supports your assumption he would not have bought a shotgun, had he not been able to purchase an AR?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> And this is all related to Uvalde because the NRA refused entry to the PROUD BOYS at the Gun Nut convention following this mass murder.


They lacked the necessary credentials to get in and were causing a big scene with anti gun protesters outside.

Membership has privileges, being a jackass or group of same trying to cause a ruckus at the front doors with no credentials is a really good way not to get in.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> It’s not two AR’s  on one day. It’s wanting to buy an assault rifle. The shooter just happened to want to buy two. This should raise a double red flag


So engaging in perfectly legal conduct deserve flagging?

This isn't Nazi Germany or Stalin's Russia.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Is your little town an oil based economy like Vladimir Putin’s Russia? Are others living there as as oil rich as you and Putin? What industry drives the wealth of your little TEXAS town UTOPIA besides oil and cattle?


Hunting, sheep, goats and cattle drive the economy in that area.

The major petroleum producing areas are to the north, west, and east.

We do however have an endless supply of rocks and illegals.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Because you would learn in this case something about irreversibility and transcience and this could help you not to stay to be a slave of guns and their wrong prophets.


Slaves to guns?  You actually are insane.

Thanks for clearing that up for us.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

Resnic said:


> Ok he blames gun, and I blame criminals.
> 
> If you take away guns you still are left with criminals. Taking away guns doesn't actually solve any problems because if you do all the bad guys are still here ready, willing and able to do some bad shit.


Well since a gun won't ever commit a crime and criminals will with or without guns I'd say you're on the right track.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Still waiting for you to explain why doing this makes you feel better about yourself.
> Well?


I insult you because you and your fellow gun extremists SUPPORT the  former president who tried to put an end to our democracy to stay in power. that’s fascism. We were fortunate that he failed because his Vice President refused to follow the instructions  that DJT and his lawyers were giving him.

I’m not insulting you to feel better. I mean solid you because you are a part of an America that would deprive me of my right to vote and have it count. That’s un American And you do not care.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Take your time I’m retired too, but I have a consulting job to get finished for the pittance of an income compared to yours. Just don’t run?


I don't run, ever and haven't in twenty years.  My running gear won't take it anymore.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I’m not insulting you to feel better.


Ok...  so, what what purpose do you think it serves?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I insult you because you and your fellow gun extremists SUPPORT the  former president who tried to put an end to our democracy to stay in power. that’s fascism. We were fortunate that he failed because his Vice President refused to follow the instructions  that DJT and his lawyers were giving him.
> 
> I’m not insulting you to feel better. I mean solid you because you are a part of an America that would deprive me of my right to vote and have it count. That’s un American And you do not care.


Actually one of the biggest clues identifying a Fascist State is stripping The People of their constitutionally protected rights.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> There is no such waiting period in the US much less in Texas.


It takes around 7 months to process the federal papwerwork, etc, necessary to buy an assautl rifle.
Sometimes more, sometimes, less.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Hunting, sheep, goats and cattle drive the economy in that area.


Does your $5000 a day oil money get spent in the town or is everybody there as wealthy as you. 

And what are the illegals doing there? stealing your rocks?


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Actually one of the biggest clues identifying a Fascist State is stripping The People of their constitutionally protected rights.


No one has ever used the extreme power of the White House to actually attempt to strip a constitutionally protected right of 88 million voters to have their sacred votes count,  until Trump attempted  to do exactly that on Jan6   Therefore you agree Trump was leading us down the path of becoming a fascist state when he tried to overturn the 2020 election.

You compare that to your right to buy an assault rifle without a background check which is a right you have And you refuse to give up even with homicidal mad men buying guns easily they used to kill 10 year old kids. I think my right to vote and I have that would be counted as a bit more significant to the preservation of our democracy. Do you support what Trump tried to do that only Mike Pence could stop the chaos on the election that Trump wanted for personal power.


----------



## DBA (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I want to make it impossible for an 18-year-old to buy an assault rifle and high velocity ammunition with 30 round clips without a damn good reason for why he needs one for starters.
> 
> There will be an application process to buy a weapon that looks like an assault rifle used by the military. If there’s any semblance of hate towards other races or towards the opposite sex, or opposing political views recorded in any of his social media then he will be watched during a two years application process requireing not posting any of that rape shit like Ramos did, if he is going to earn the right to play with an AR15 ever. The applicant signs a contract that if he slips up during those two years he gives up all rights to gun possession and ownership for life.
> 
> ...


30 round clips? They are called magazines not clips. You have no idea what you're talkin about.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I make an assumption based on the pattern that he waited for eight months before turning 18 and purging the weaponry


What about that fact supports your assumption he would not have bought a shotgun, had he not been able to purchase an AR?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You compare that to your right to buy an assault rifle without a background check which is a right you have And you refuse to give up even with homicidal mad men buying guns easily they used to kill 10 year old kids.


There's no rational reaosn whatsoever for us to allow unnecessary and ineffective rrestrictions on our right to keep and bear arms.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

So now America’s gun scum not only want to preserve the right ti have a law abiding but secret intentional murderous madman being able to buy any kind of gun he wants with no background check to shoot kids in classrooms and Black people in supermarkets,  now you want to defend their right to buy a gun to shoot a doctor if you have back painSo now America’s gun scum not only want to preserve the right we’re going to buy any kind of gun he wants to shoot kids in classrooms and Black people in supermarkets now you want to defend their right to buy a gun to shoot a doctor if you have back pain.

So when a little kid survives their days in classrooms grow up to be Doctors you can get them then.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> So now America’s gun scum not only want to preserve the right we’re going to buy any kind of gun he wants to shoot kids in classrooms and Black people in supermarkets now you want to defend their right to buy a gun to shoot a doctor if you have back pain


^^^
This is a lie.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> What about that fact supports your assumption he would not have bought a shotgun, had he not been able to purchase an AR?


You’re a damn fool. You are making assumption that he would buy a shotgun. Why don’t you support that and get back to me


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You’re a damn fool.


Still waiting for you to asnwer the question:
What about that fact supports your assumption he would not have bought a shotgun, had he not been able to purchase an AR?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I’m not insulting you to feel better.


Ok...  so, what what purpose do you think it serves?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> No one has ever used the extreme power of the White House to actually attempt to strip a constitutionally protected right of 88 million voters to have their sacred votes count, until Trump attempted to do exactly that on Jan6 Therefore you agree Trump was leading us down the path of becoming a fascist state when he tried to overturn the 2020 election.


In 1942 on the orders of FDR over 120,000 American citizens were arrested and put into concentration camps and all of their property seized.  This was done by fiat, no votes, not due process at all and was done on the basis of race and nationality.

That was Fascism in the name of protecting our "Democracy".

Best learn some history before spewing any more bile.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Still waiting for you to asnwer the question:
> What about that fact supports your assumption he would not have bought a shotgun, had he not been able to purchase an AR?


What supports your assumption that he would’ve went out and bought a shotgun to kill those same kids on the very last day at school? 

I do not have to justify my assumptions based on the shooters pattern to wait 8 months to someone Who disregards the factual pattern that we know about the shooter.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I make an assumption based on the pattern that he waited for eight months before turning 18 and purging the weaponry used to kill 19 kids.l


And if he was unable to buy his first choice of weapon there's every likelihood he'd have bought a pump or semi auto shotgun for the attack and thence very well might have done even more damage.

You obviously know nothing about guns at all other than perhaps that they go, "Bang", so you should probably keep silent on the subject.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> What supports your assumption....


-You- argue a 21+ age requirement to buy an AR would have prevented this crime because -you- assume he would not have have bought a shotgun instead.
What about that fact you cited supports your assumption he would not have bought a shotgun, had he not been able to purchase an AR?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> What supports your assumption that he would’ve went out and bought a shotgun to kill those same kids on the very last day at school?


Because if he could not obtain a handgun or rifle that's the logical next choice.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Why should it be a ten year olds business “why” a person chooses assault weapons to mass murder them in schools when Ray from Cleveland says it is none of anybody’s business because Ray from Cleveland has more respect for the shooter’s right to purchase the weapon than the ten year olds right to not be shot and mutilated to death by it.


Would you prefer handguns, incendiaries, or explosives?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> ^^^
> This is a lie.


That's really all he has to offer other than unmitigated hate.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You’re a damn fool. You are making assumption that he would buy a shotgun. Why don’t you support that and get back to me



Maybe not a shotgun, maybe an illegal hand gun, or perhaps an illegal AR.  Point is you are not going to stop a mad killer by restricting firearms.  You may make it a little more difficult, but a killer is going to kill no matter what.  Our biggest domestic terrorist attack last year was a black guy who wanted to kill as many whites as possible.  This BLM supporter injured over 50 people killing 6 of them.  You may not have heard about it since the MSM buried that story in less than a week.   Our biggest attack happened with box cutters and planes.  The next biggest one before that was a guy who rented a U-Haul truck and picked up some fertilizer.  

None of these people had guns, they only had this mad desire to kill innocent people.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I make an assumption based on the pattern that he waited for eight months before turning 18 and purging the weaponry  used to kill 19 kids.l
> 
> 
> You are assuming that he would’ve waited until his birthday and then found out he could not buy an AR 15 legally so he goes  to the illegal market and then a few days he would be able to do the same exact thing. Your presumption is absurd based on no patterns of the shooters behavior.  Your assumption is based on your belief that the shooter has a bigger right when purchasing a gun than a kid has a right to live. You
> Are guns  scum too.



You with your either/or bullshit.  It's not an either or situation.  If he wasn't allowed to buy any AR's he still would have attacked that school.  You are making the claim if he didn't purchase an AR legally, all those kids would be alive today.  That's total bullshit.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Because he is a racist and the leader of a party that has a lot of racism in it that’s why black voters voted for Biden. So what gives you the right to cancel their votes because you’ve been fooled by the ConMan white nationalist Putin sidekick Trump.



Is that so?  Then tell me one racist thing Trump ever said.

What a stupid claim.  They voted for Dementia because they didn't want to vote for a racist party, so instead, voted for a guy who said........

He's the first black (Obama) that's articulate and *clean.* 
*Poor kids* can be just as bright as white kids. 
They want to put ya'all back in chains. 
You're not really black unless you vote for me. 
I don't want to send my kids to school in a racial *jungle*.  
The reason black kids are illiterate is because the parents are illiterate too!

All you really proved with your statement is how stupid and politically ignorant those who voted for Dementia are.  He has said the most racist things of any contender for President in modern times.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You can pay for it and then get an appointment for a test you will have to take just like student drivers have to do to get a drivers license. He should be willing to allow authorities local and state to review any social media content over the past five years.



That sounds good.  I'll support your effort to make an appointment and take a test, if you do the same with my desire to take a test to vote.  After all, if we move towards having to take tests to exercise constitutional rights, why stop at guns?  Let's see what some of the Communist voters have said on social media as well.  Deal?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> What an ignorant question you’re pathetic gun scum. Why wouldn’t one?



Because people do make more than one purchase at a time when buying guns.  Why would buying more than one gun indicate anything?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> All Thanks to no questions asked. It’s nobody else’s business, right?


Why are you lying again, he had to pass a background check.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You can pay for it and then get an appointment for a test you will have to take just like student drivers have to do to get a drivers license. He should be willing to allow authorities local and state to review any social media content over the past five years.


Driving is a privilege not a right.

You've just wiped out and peed on 3 of the first 4 Amendments.

Thankfully you'll never be in a position to have any input on public policy or law making.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 2, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Why does insulting people you disagree with make you feel better about yourself?


Why don't you ask your boyfriend, 2aguy , he does it all the time


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 2, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Why don't you ask your boyfriend, 2aguy , he does it all the time



Yeah, but my insults are accurate….


----------



## scruffy (Jun 2, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> In 1942 on the orders of FDR over 120,000 American citizens were arrested and put into concentration camps and all of their property seized.  This was done by fiat, no votes, not due process at all and was done on the basis of race and nationality.
> 
> That was Fascism in the name of protecting our "Democracy".
> 
> Best learn some history before spewing any more bile.


Exactly.

And NONE OF THEM WERE BLACK.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 2, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yeah, but my insults are accurate….


Ok bellend


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> That was Fascism in the name of protecting our "Democracy".


So in your mind does that justify what Donald J Trump attempted to do against 88 million American a people that the US government is not at war with. Or do you consider yourself at war against Biden voters?


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Driving is a privilege not a right.


Buying an assault rifle is likewise a privilege not a right. The Constitution did not draw the line with regards to individual rights at any particular type of firearm or age to buy them. Indeed there were not too many guns in 1790 that had the human killing capabilities that we have now. 

The right to bear arms is absolutely arbitrary and ambiguous. We as a society get to decide were certain lines are drawn, 

The SA literally does not give the right to bear arms based on an individual citizens’ desire to possess any human killing tool he wants, specifically when they are not participating in a well regulated militia.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> That was Fascism in the name of protecting our "Democracy".



Trump attempted to deprive 88 million if they right to vote. Is it ok with you.





Big Bend Texas said:


> Best learn some history before spewing any more bile.



You too:

Trump attempted to use fake electors from seven states that Biden won to force Mike Pence to deny counting those seven states which was an attempt to throw the 2020 election into chaos on Jan6.

And do you agree that the lawful gun owner, Stewart Rhodes, the founder of the Oath keepers, should be convicted of the Seditious Conspiracy charges against him for the role he played in helping Trump create chaos on Jan6 to stay in power.

Could it be the NRA Is “woke” to the fact that it’s membership supports with fervent enthusiasm President Trump’s conspiracy and attempt on Jan6 to create election chaos on Jan6 resulting in US House Members on the GOP and God’s GUNS and GUTS side to vote in a 26 to 24 Republican majority the re-election of Trump and Pence to the White House?





Ray From Cleveland said:


> If he wasn't allowed to buy any AR's he still would have attacked that school


. .  or not!   No one knows. Even gun scum cannot know  that.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Buying an assault rifle is likewise a privilege not a right.


You mean an AR15.
AR15s are not assault rifles.   You keep making that mistake.
And yes, buying and owning them is a right.


NotfooledbyW said:


> The Constitution did not draw the line with regards to individual rights at any particular type of firearm or age to buy them.


And thus, a right of the individual to keep and bear arms.


NotfooledbyW said:


> Indeed there were not too many guns in 1790 that had the human killing capabilities that we have now.


Your argument was dismissed 2 decades ago:

_Some have made the argument, bordering on the frivolous, that only those arms in existence in the 18th century are protected by the Second Amendment .  We do not interpret constitutional rights that way.  Just as the First Amendment  protects modern forms of communications, e.g., Reno v. American Civil Liberties Union, 521 U. S. 844, 849 (1997) , and the Fourth Amendment  applies to modern forms of search, e.g., Kyllo v. United States, 533 U. S. 27, 35–36 (2001) _*, the Second Amendment  extends, prima facie,to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding.*


NotfooledbyW said:


> The right to bear arms is absolutely arbitrary and ambiguous. We as a society get to decide were certain lines are drawn,


Only for those people who havent read the jurisprudence sorrounding same -- people like you.


NotfooledbyW said:


> The SA literally does not give the right to bear arms


Correct.   Literally nothing in the constitution grants rights.


NotfooledbyW said:


> based on an individual citizens’ desire to possess any human killing tool he wants, specifically when they are not participating in a well regulated militia.


Your argument was dismissed 2 decades ago:

_The Second Amendment  protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. _


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> And yes, buying and owning them is a right.


Do you own an M14


M14 Shooter said:


> Your argument was dismissed 2 decades ago:


What did you have to do different than what Salvador Ramos did to buy an assault rifle.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Do you own an M14


Yes.


NotfooledbyW said:


> What did you have to do different than what Salvador Ramos did to buy an assault rifle.


What's that?
You have no meaningful response to my post?
Thought not.
Your arguments were dismissed 2 decades ago.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Buying an assault rifle is likewise a privilege not a right. The Constitution did not draw the line with regards to individual rights at any particular type of firearm or age to buy them. Indeed there were not too many guns in 1790 that had the human killing capabilities that we have now.
> 
> The right to bear arms is absolutely arbitrary and ambiguous. We as a society get to decide were certain lines are drawn,
> 
> The SA literally does not give the right to bear arms based on an individual citizens’ desire to possess any human killing tool he wants, specifically when they are not participating in a well regulated militia.



You don't have to be part of a militia to have Second Amendment rights.  That's been determined years ago.  You are correct that the founders did not outline any particular weapons.  They knew our weapons would advance like everything else in our country would.  That's why they created an amendment process, to be able to change the Constitution when people of the time felt it necessary.  They knew in the future we wouldn't be limited to shotguns and muskets.  

Unfortunately for you and your ilk, the amendment process takes a super majority every step of the way, and guns are nowhere near that point.  The interest in guns and self-defense grows every year, and the states adoption of CCW laws is evidence of that, not to mention gun ownership in this country.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Unfortunately for you and your ilk, the amendment process takes a super majority every step of the way....


Can anyone name 13 states that will never ratify an amendment that repeals the 2nd?
Anyone?
Anyone?


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> AR15s are not assault rifles.


Was the Uvalde massacre the result of an assault by one deranged person on a Classroom full of 10 year olds. 

Did he use an AR 15?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Was the Uvalde massacre the result of an assault by one deranged person on a Classroom full of 10 year olds.
> Did he use an AR 15?


AR15s are not assault rifles.        
And thus, your repeated claims to that effect are false.
Why do you continue to make claims you know are false?

Your arguments were dismissed 2 decades ago.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> That's been determined years ago.


Abortion determined legal  50 years ago but that means nothing to conservatives an more. 

I can read what the original writer wrote: 





How you drop   *“A well regulated militia, *being necessary to the security of a free state” and then reword the meaning of  the phrase “*the right of the people” *plural to - keep and bear arms to *The right of the individual *to keep and bear arms it’s not really comprehensible. You got lucky a while back and that’s about it


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> How you drop   *“A well regulated militia, *being necessary to the security of a free state”...


Your argument was dismissed 2 decades ago.
You choose to be wrong.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Abortion determined legal  50 years ago but that means nothing to conservatives an more.
> 
> I can read what the original writer wrote:
> View attachment 653239
> ...



Here is how: 









						How A Comma Gave Americans The Right To Own Guns
					

The Supreme Court struck down D.C.'s ban on hand guns, the strictest gun control law to date, because of a comma.




					www.businessinsider.com
				




But it's not about what I think.  It's not about what you think.  It's about how our justices think since they studied our history, constitution and founders much more in depth than most people in the country.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It's about how our justices think



“*preliminary throat clearing” *

This is laughable..   the second comma divides the amendment into two clauses: one 'prefatory' and the other 'operative.' On this reading, *the bit about a well-regulated militia is just preliminary throat clearing; *the framers don’t really get down to business until they start talking about 'the right of the people ... shall not be infringed,'" The New York Times reported.

“People” Is plural  as in a militia.   That was a political decision and a mistake - they do not refer to “individual rights“ in the second part, commas or no commas


----------



## scruffy (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> So in your mind does that justify what Donald J Trump attempted to do against 88 million American a people that the US government is not at war with. Or do you consider yourself at war against Biden voters?


Hey stupid leftard liar, DEMANDING CONFIDENCE IN A SECURE ELECTION IS NOT A COUP.

It's NOT AN INSURRECTION, dumbass leftist shit for brains fucking asshole, and if I had any richer words I'd use them.

If you had even ONE brain cell in that retarded maggot infested leftist brain of yours, YOU WOULD BE DEMANDING A SECURE ELECTION TOO.

What a bunch of asswipes the Demoscum are. They're so fucking stupid they DON'T CARE that NO ONE HAS CONFIDENCE IN OUR ELECTIONS.

Fucking fucktards. I'm speechless. Out of words


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> So in your mind does that justify what Donald J Trump attempted to do against 88 million American a people that the US government is not at war with. Or do you consider yourself at war against Biden voters?




He didn't do anything.....have you cashed your check from China this week?


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It's about how our justices think since they studied our history, constitution and founders much more in depth than most people in the country.


OK listen to this one:

Scalia: 'Like most rights, the Second Amendment is not unlimited​


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Hey stupid leftard liar, DEMANDING CONFIDENCE IN A SECURE ELECTION IS NOT A COUP.



Trumps fake electors scheme made not one single effort in all of it to demand confidence in a secure election.  

Here is Trumps plot that Pence stopped:



NotfooledbyW said:


> Trump attempted to use fake electors from seven states that Biden won to force Mike Pence to deny counting those seven states which was an attempt to throw the 2020 election into chaos on Jan6.
> 
> And do you agree that the lawful gun owner, Stewart Rhodes, the founder of the Oath keepers, should be convicted of the Seditious Conspiracy charges against him for the role he played in helping Trump create chaos on Jan6 to stay in power.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> OK listen to this one:
> 
> Scalia: 'Like most rights, the Second Amendment is not unlimited​




And also Scalia...on the AR-15 rifle.......

*https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/15pdf/15-133_7l48.pdf*


The question under Heller is not whether citizens have adequate alternatives available for self-defense.

Rather, Heller asks whether the law bans types of firearms commonly used for a lawful purpose—regardless of whether alternatives exist. 554 U. S., at 627–629. And Heller draws a distinction between such firearms and weapons specially adapted to unlawful uses and not in common use, such as sawed-off shotguns. Id., at 624–625.
The City’s ban is thus highly suspect because it broadly prohibits common semiautomatic firearms used for lawful purposes.


*Roughly five million Americans own AR-style semiautomatic rifles. See 784 F. 3d, at 415, n. 3. The overwhelming majority of citizens who own and use such rifles do so for lawful purposes, including self-defense and target shooting. See ibid. Under our precedents, that is all that is needed for citizens to have a right under the Second Amendment to keep such weapons. See McDonald, 561 U. S., at 767–768; Heller, supra, at 628–629.

*
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

Some have made the argument, bordering on the frivolous, that only those arms in existence in the 18th century are protected by the Second Amendment. 

We do not interpret constitutional rights that way. Just as the First Amendment protects modern forms of communications, e.g., Reno v. American Civil Liberties Union, 521 U. S. 844, 849 (1997), and the Fourth Amendment applies to modern forms of search, e.g., Kyllo v. United States, 533 U. S. 27, 35–36 (2001), 

*the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding.*

*--------
*


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

Is this one of yours Big Bend Texas ?


scruffy said:


> Hey stupid leftard liar, DEMANDING CONFIDENCE IN A SECURE ELECTION IS NOT A COUP.
> 
> It's NOT AN INSURRECTION, dumbass leftist shit for brains fucking asshole, and if I had any richer words I'd use them.
> 
> ...


I’m not seeing an argument other than if scruffy says it so it must be so.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

2aguy said:


> And also Scalia...on the AR-15 rifle.......
> 
> *https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/15pdf/15-133_7l48.pdf*
> 
> ...


That’s why Democrats are not proposing to take guns away from the people who already have them.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> That’s why Democrats are not proposing to take guns away from the people who already have them.




Yeah.....we just learned from Canada the next step.....they will simply ban the purchase, sale, and even transfer of any gun......making it impossible to get one....

The proper response to anti-gun fascists like yourself....Go F**k yourself.


----------



## Sandy Shanks (Jun 2, 2022)

The AP reports, "The House is swiftly working to put its stamp on gun legislation in response to mass shootings in Texas and New York by 18-year-old assailants who used semi-automatic rifles to kill 31 people, including 19 children." 

*Actually, there have been 233 mass shootings this year, 20 mass shootings since the slaughter of children and teachers in Uvalde.*

The AP continued, "The Democratic legislation, called the Protecting Our Kids Act, was quickly added to the legislative docket after last week’s school shooting in Uvalde, Texas.

"*But with Republicans nearly all in opposition*, the House action will mostly be symbolic, merely putting lawmakers on record about gun control ahead of this year’s elections. The Senate is taking a different course, with a bipartisan group striving toward a compromise on gun safety legislation that can win enough GOP support to become law. *Those talks are making “rapid progress,” according to Sen. Susan Collins of Maine, one of the Republican negotiators*.

Many would be much happier if a Democratic Senator had said that. The decades old record shows that Republicans are merely playing the game. There is an election in a few months. They need to pretend they are more concerned about Americans dying from gunfire than the millions they receive from the NRA.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 2, 2022)

Sandy Shanks said:


> The AP reports, "The House is swiftly working to put its stamp on gun legislation in response to mass shootings in Texas and New York by 18-year-old assailants who used semi-automatic rifles to kill 31 people, including 19 children."
> 
> *Actually, there have been 233 mass shootings this year, 20 mass shootings since the slaughter of children and teachers in Uvalde.*
> 
> ...




There have not been 223 mass public shootings you dumb ass......

Since Jan. 1 there have now been 4......

Moderators....I am posting the following in response to this post....

US mass shootings, 1982–2022: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation

Dating back to at least 2005, the FBI and leading criminologists essentially defined a mass shooting as a single attack in a public place in which four or more victims were killed. We adopted that baseline for fatalities when we gathered data in 2012 on three decades worth of cases. 
-------


Here is a description of the criteria we use:

The perpetrator took the lives of at least four people. A 2008 FBI report identifies an individual as a mass murderer—versus a spree killer or a serial killer—if he kills four or more people in a single incident (not including himself), typically in a single location. (*In 2013, the US government’s fatality baseline was revised down to three; our database reflects this change beginning from Jan. 2013, as detailed above.)
The killings were carried out by a lone shooter. (Except in the case of the Columbine massacre and the Westside Middle School killings, which involved two shooters.)
The shootings occurred in a public place. (Except in the case of a party on private property in Crandon, Wisconsin, and another in Seattle, where crowds of strangers had gathered, essentially constituting a public crowd.)* Crimes primarily related to gang activity or armed robbery are not included, nor are mass killings that took place in private homes (often stemming from domestic violence).*
Perpetrators who died or were wounded during the attack are not included in the victim tallies.
We included a handful of cases also known as “spree killings“—cases in which the killings occurred in more than one location, but still over a short period of time, that otherwise fit the above criteria.
----------------------
Our research focused on indiscriminate rampages in public places resulting in four or more victims killed by the attacker. We exclude shootings stemming from more conventionally motivated crimes such as armed robbery or gang violence. (Or in which the perpetrators have not been identified.) Other news outlets and researchers have since published larger tallies that include a wide range of gun crimes in which four or more people have been either wounded or killed. While those larger datasets of multiple-victim shootings are useful for studying the broader problem of gun violence, our investigation provides an in-depth look at a distinct phenomenon—from the firearms used and mental health factors to the growing copycat problem. Tracking mass shootings is complex; we believe ours is the most useful approach for studying this specific phenomenon.



---------
The actual number of mass shootings from Mother Jones......

Here you go...the number of mass public shootings according to Mother Jones...rabid, anti gun, left wing news source.....not the NRA...

The list below comes from the old definition of 4 killed to make a shooting a mass shooting...if you now go to the link there are more than listed below...but that is because Mother Jones changed the list from the time I first posted it...and changed to obama's new standard of only 3 dead to make a mass shooting...



US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

2021...6
2020....2

2019....10

2018... 12

2017:  11 ( 5 according to the old standard)

2016....6

2015....4 ( obama's new standard....7)

2014....2 (4)

2013....5

2012....7

2011....3

2010....1

2009....4

2008....3

2007....4

2006....3

2005...2

2004....1

2003...1

2002 not listed so more than likely 0

2001....1

2000....1

1999....5

1998...3

1997....2

1996....1

1995...1

1994...1

1993...4

1992...2

1991...3

1990...1

1989...2

1988....1

1987...1

1986...1

1985... not listed so probably 0

1984...2

1983...not listed so probably 0

1982...1


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> That’s why Democrats are not proposing to take guns away from the people who already have them.



The only reason they are not proposing it is because of the US Constitution that prohibits them from doing so.  If not for the Constitution, they would ban anything that shoots something through the air including a rubber band gun.


----------



## Flash (Jun 2, 2022)

View attachment 653279


----------



## Flash (Jun 2, 2022)

Liberals don't want this to happen


----------



## Flash (Jun 2, 2022)

These are the little worthless chickenshits demanding gun control


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> “*preliminary throat clearing” *
> 
> This is laughable..   the second comma divides the amendment into two clauses: one 'prefatory' and the other 'operative.' On this reading, *the bit about a well-regulated militia is just preliminary throat clearing; *the framers don’t really get down to business until they start talking about 'the right of the people ... shall not be infringed,'" The New York Times reported.
> 
> “People” Is plural  as in a militia.   That was a political decision and a mistake - they do not refer to “individual rights“ in the second part, commas or no commas



So you think you know more about our Constitution than people that studied it their entire lives?  People is plural as in people, as in all of us.  People is always plural.  Person is singular.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> This is laughable..   the second comma divides the amendment ...


Your argument was dismissed 2 decades ago.
You choose to be wrong.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> OK listen to this one:
> Scalia: 'Like most rights, the Second Amendment is not unlimited​


Which, like with all right, in no way means that it can be limited in any and every way.


----------



## DarthTrader (Jun 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So you think you know more about our Constitution than people that studied it their entire lives?  People is plural as in people, as in all of us.  People is always plural.  Person is singular.


The definitive article "the" is singular. Meaning "people" is singular, which means people as in a collective nation. Literally.

"A group of people" is plural (noun).

"The people" is singular. Like "The country", or "the nation", or "the Chinese, the Germans," etc.

Why it's confusing is because a dictionary won't go into this nuance, but the nuance is that "the" defines a single thing. The tomatoes, the potatoes, etc. There's one of them. One bunch, bushel, whatever have you.

It's a COLLECTIVE right that the Founders intended to be so absolutely universal that we were all treated as "the".


----------



## DarthTrader (Jun 2, 2022)

Flash said:


> These are the little worthless chickenshits demanding gun control
> 
> 
> View attachment 653281


Help! The American people (singular again) are outside. They are scary!


----------



## Flash (Jun 2, 2022)




----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

Tell me Big Bend Texas if you regard these two  or four to be law abiding gun owners in America up until they did this:

In 2020, Boogaloo extremists reportedly sought to embed themselves in the George Floyd protests, hoping that they could use the cover of the demonstrators *to murder law enforcement officials and spark a race war*.​​







						'Boogaloo' extremist gets four years in prison for terrorism: report
					

According to Minnesota Public Radio, a federal judge in Minneapolis has sentenced a member of a violent far-right group obsessed with creating a second civil war to four years in prison for activity at civil rights protests two years ago."Benjamin Ryan Teeter, 24, of Hampstead, N.C., got on the...




					www.rawstory.com
				


​One other member, Ivan Harrison Hunter, pleaded guilty last year after posing as a Black Lives Matter activist to shoot up a police station. Another, Aaron Swenson, was sentenced to 50 years after live-streaming his threats to murder police officers​
I ask you this Big Bend Texas because it’s all related to January 6 and what your sides’ political  machine decided and attempted to do on the that pivotal date, was shit on the voting rights of 88 million Democrats who voted for Biden. Nine out of 10 black American voters are in that total.

Trump attempted to use fake electors from seven states that Biden won to force Mike Pence to deny counting those seven states which was an attempt to *throw the 2020 election into chaos on Jan6.*​​And can you agree that the lawful gun owner, Stewart Rhodes, the founder of the Oath keepers, should be convicted of the Seditious Conspiracy charges against him for the role he played in *helping Trump create chaos on Jan6 to* stay in power.​
Trump’s ultimate goal *was to create chaos.* Creating chaos in the election process could lead to violence in the streets.

There are gun owners on the right in this country seriously interested in sparking a race war. They didn’t succeed on January 6  or during the Derek Chauvin protests.  But if not for Vice President Mike Pence remaining loyal to the Constitution, Trump may have sparked the race war that the Boogaloo boys and Oath Keepers wanted.

This is all part of the same gun debate that led to the deaths of black people in the supermarket, 19 ten  year olds in a classroom and a doctor and three others in a hospital all by assault rifle in two weeks. Are you on the side of National Rifle Association or the United States of America and it’s 240 years of democracy that’s so many Americans have given their lives to defend - Including black Americans. I am appalled knowing that the President of the United States about to finish his term would even think that it would be OK to not count the votes of my fellow Democrats who are black. It’s deplorable even if it’s not criminal. But I hope to hell that it will be found to be is criminal and you should too If you truly are a lawful gun owner and he loves his country that you and I live in


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Tell me Big Bend Texas if you regard these two  or four to be law abiding gun owners in America up until they did this:


Nothing here changes the fact your argument was dismissed 2 decades ago.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Trump attempted to use fake electors from seven states that Biden won to force Mike Pence to deny counting those seven states which was an attempt to throw the 2020 election into chaos on Jan6.



Is the above true or false?


M14 Shooter said:


> It takes around 7 months to process the federal papwerwork, etc, necessary to buy an assautl rifle.



Not the assault rifle that was used to mass murder 19 little kids in a classroom.




M14 Shooter said:


> Which, like with all right, in no way means that it can be limited in any and every way.



Scalia said  the second amendment was limited. What am I missing?


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Nothing here changes the fact your argument was dismissed 2 decades ago.


I have never argued that it was not dismissed two decades ago.. I am merely stating what the second amendment actually says:  The court dismisses half of the second amendment in regards to the militia and translates the term “people” to be a single individual. You gun scum  we’re lucky to decades ago that’s all.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So you think you know more about our Constitution than people that studied it their entire lives?


Nope, I accept their decision. Because that’s democracy in action. 

But I can read a simple sentence 

The first part was admittedly disregarded. 

I don’t think it makes sense to disregard what is written in the constitution, but that’s just me I guess


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Not the assault rifle that was used to mass murder 19 little kids in a classroom.


An assault rifle has, in the US, never been used to murder 19 little kids in a classroom.
Not once.
As in exactly zero times.
You choose to be wrong.


NotfooledbyW said:


> Scalia said  the second amendment was limited. What am I missing?


The part where this in no way means that it can be limited in any and every way.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I have never argued that it was not dismissed two decades ago.. I am merely stating what the second amendment actually says:


Your opinion is meaningless.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Your opinion is meaningless.


Why does a Supreme Court dismiss one half of the SA as irrelevant 220 years after it was written?


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Which, like with all right, in no way means that it can be limited in any and every way.



Scalia: 'Like most rights, the Second Amendment is not unlimited​
if it is not unlimited, that precisely means it can be limited in one or many ways.


Scalia’s full quote:  

Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that *the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.”*


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Nope, I accept their decision. Because that’s democracy in action.
> 
> But I can read a simple sentence
> 
> ...



Then you must have glanced at it and not actually read it.  It clearly states that the English language was used differently at the time.  Therefore the Constitution must be read according to how they used English back in their day.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It clearly states that the English language was used differently at the time.


To ignore the militia reference they said the framers were hacking up a Hairball.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

scruffy said:


> What a bunch of asswipes the Demoscum are. They're so fucking stupid they DON'T CARE that NO ONE HAS CONFIDENCE IN OUR ELECTIONS.


The majority of Americans have confidence that the 2020 election was secure and legitimate.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Your opinion is meaningless.


What about ten GOP half woke Senators

The list of items the group is discussing is fairly limited. It includes proposals to bolster mental health, strengthen the background check system for gun buyers, provide for safe storage of guns, and encourage states to pass “red flag” laws that allow authorities to temporarily seize firearms from people determined to be a danger to themselves or others​


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> What about ten GOP half woke Senators
> 
> The list of items the group is discussing is fairly limited. It includes proposals to bolster mental health, strengthen the background check system for gun buyers, provide for safe storage of guns, and encourage states to pass “red flag” laws that allow authorities to temporarily seize firearms from people determined to be a danger to themselves or others​



On the GOP side we have back stabbers and RINO's.  It doesn't make them right simply because they are technically a member of the Republican party.  Look how many were against Trump and his successful policies.  

So how would anybody provide "safe storage" for guns?  How would they enforce it, do a search of your home periodically?  The better question, how would safe storage have helped in this last school shooting case?  

The next question is who would be in charge of making the decision somebody is a danger to themselves or others?  A gun hating shrink?  This would open up a back door to people who hate the 2nd amendment and our rights to firearms in general.  

Strengthen the background system in what way?  Add more intrusive regulations to our constitutional right to own or be in possession of a firearm?  

Such a bill would never pass.  Even if it did, I'm sure it would be met with multiple constitutional violations.


----------



## Issa (Jun 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I don't even know what the hell that means, but yes, some parts of our society are violent.  That's why it's important to have the tools to fight that violence.  You leftists live in this delusion that the way to battle evil is to disarm good people, and then confused when we can't follow that logic.  We in the real world understand the bad guys will never give up their guns.  We realize that police are only good after a crime is committed.  They are not there for our personal protection.
> 
> So if you can give us a plan on how to disarm the bad guys only, let us know what that is.  We will try it out on recreational narcotics first to see if it works.  How much you want to bet that it doesn't?


Very easy capital punishment for criminals that use firearms. Also bring back harsh prison conditions.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Trump and his successful policies.


Trump had no successful policies including his last gasp attempt to overturn the election.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 2, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> To ignore the militia reference they said the framers were hacking up a Hairball.



No, what they basically said is that the comma was used as a period at the time making two separate statements instead of one.  

Back in the day there was no US military.  If people were called for services of a militia, they were not provided arms by the federal or in this case, the state government.  You had to bring your own gun and own ammo to engage in battle.  Therefore if the Constitution didn't provide for private ownership of guns, there would be no militia to organize if they made laws against gun ownership.  It would be an easy way to abolish any possibility of a militia without actually putting it into words. 

More than that is you need to imagine the times.  Believe it or not there were no cell phones to call the police or Super Walmart's to buy food.  The only way to survive is to hunt or grow your own food.  They had bad guys back then like we have today, plus they may have faced hostilities from angry Indian tribes and have to protect themselves and their families.  

When you really think about it guns were more of a necessity when the Constitution was written than they are today.  Not having a constitutional right to firearms would have meant certain death for a lot of people if government decided to make laws against firearm ownership.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So how would anybody provide "safe storage" for guns?


Ray From Cleveland is in favor of unsafe storage of firearms. No wonder half a million guns are stolen every year. 

Ray From Cleveland favors the Travis McMichal Method. Leave your handgun in the pickup truck until it gets stolen and then chase down and shoot to kill the next stray Negro kid who has the audacity to steal your gun and jog through the neighborhood without it.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Trump had no successful policies including his last gasp attempt to overturn the election.



Trump's policies were too many to list.  He kept jobs in this country by reducing taxes on our job creators and removing costly regulations.  His policy that for every new business regulation made, two had to be removed in their place helped businesses greatly. He got rid of DumBama's policy of forcing schools to allow weirdos in dresses to compete in female athletics and use their dressing and rest room facilities.  His Stay In Mexico policy was the best.  It stopped people from coming in, applying for asylum, and then never to be seen again once allowed to roam the country supposedly waiting for their court date.  On top of that, he told Mexico if they don't stop people from other countries crossing theirs to get to our boarder, they would lose their US foreign aid.  He also changed the asylum policy to apply at a US embassy in your own country instead of coming to ours.  If you did find a way to make it to our border and refused asylum from any other country along the way, that was automatic disqualification for US asylum. 

While he was not able to totally get rid of Commie Care, he did manage to remove the fines for people the least able to afford medical insurance.  Those were people that heavily relied on their income tax return that was stolen from them by Ears.  7 million Americans were able to give up their food stamp benefits due to more job opportunities and better income.  Speaking of which, we hit a new high in median household income.  

After Joe's buddies infected our country, we hit an unemployment high of 14.7% and brought that down to 6.7% in six months.  Great economy or bad, our national average of gasoline never hit $3.00 a gallon.  Trump signed a bill to restore funding to historic African American colleges that DumBama took away.  He doubled the child tax credit, he doubled the standard tax deduction of working Americans.  

He got rid of the phony Iran agreement that allowed them to build nuclear weapons unsupervised.  He got rid of the Paris Accord that Dementia brought back that gave other members control over our industries .  He got rid of net neutrality.  He saved the suburbs by getting rid of DumBama's idiotic law that stopped cities from restricting multi-family housing.  

The list just goes on and on.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Ray From Cleveland is in favor of unsafe storage of firearms. No wonder half a million guns are stolen every year.
> 
> Ray From Cleveland favors the Travis McMichal Method. Leave your handgun in the pickup truck until it gets stolen and then chase down and shoot to kill the next stray Negro kid who has the audacity to steal your gun and jog through the neighborhood without it.



Who said I was against safe storage?  I'm against the government mandating it.  Many of the firearms stolen are from cars which I don't believe we hold the gun owners responsible enough.  It gives people the opportunities that straw buying does.  Sell a gun to somebody that isn't allowed to have one, call the police, and report your gun was stolen out of your vehicle.  In most states there is no penalty for it.  I never leave my gun in my car for that reason.  My gun always comes with me.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 3, 2022)

Issa said:


> Very easy capital punishment for criminals that use firearms. Also bring back harsh prison conditions.



And you have my support on those items.  Unfortunately along the way, leftist judges ruled many treatments of prisoners as unconstitutional citing cruel and unusual punishment.  Now our prisons are lowlife playgrounds.  The problem with capital punishment is it takes too long to carry out and is not a deterrent.  Do you care about what happens to you 15 to 20 years from now?  You might be dead by then.  Prisoners don't care either.  

What we need to do is fast track capital punishment for offenders that are convicted with empirical evidence such as video recordings and or DNA. No more 20 years of appeals.  I'd even go one step further by making all executions public, perhaps on a pay-per-view channel.  All proceeds would go to the families of the victims.  

Issa, I think we are going to make a Republican out of you yet.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> No, what they basically said is that the comma was used as a period at the time making two separate statements instead of one.






Although a period instead of a comma between “free state. the right of the
people” means the first word of the second sentence is not capitalized but the first word in the first sentence is capitalized. “A well regulated militia.. “

And the first sentence becomes an incomplete sentence. 

“A well regulated militia, *being necessary* to the security of s free state.”    Uuihhh whatabout it Mr framer? 

*being necessary* is used in a subordinate clause that contains a verb and a subject but cannot stand on it own as a complete sentence snd does not express a complete idea, 

Subordinating conjunctions​This type of conjunction includes words like _because_, _if_, _although_, _since_, _until_, and _while_. A subordinating conjunction is used to introduce a dependent clause. so it must always be attached to an independent clause. In contrast to an independent clause, a dependent clause (also known as a subordinate clause) is a group of words that contains a subject and a verb but cannot stand as a complete sentence on its own.​​







						Using conjunctions
					

A conjunction is a word that is used to connect words, phrases, and clauses. There are many conjunctions in the English language, but some common ones




					www.scribbr.com
				


​A dependent clause does not express a complete idea, so it must always be attached to an independent clause.​


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> View attachment 653374
> Although a period instead of a comma between “free state. the right of the
> people” means the first word of the second sentence is not capitalized but the first word in the first sentence is capitalized. “A well regulated militia.. “
> 
> ...



And again they used different punctuation back then.  The appeals court ruled that the Washington ban was unconstitutional along with the SC that ruled the same understanding how the comma was used at the time.   It's the intent our founders had on firearms more than anything.  

_"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Stephens Smith, son-in-law of John Adams, December 20, 1787

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
- Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788_

There are countless quotes about the intention of our forefathers, but the point is they had no intent to restrict firearms to militias only.  The right to bear arms were for all free Americans, not just those intending to go to war against a tyrannical government.  And as I stated above, people back then needed firearms more than we do today.  It was part of their survival.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> No, what they basically said is that the comma was used as a period at the time making two separate statements instead of one.



No. Let’s leave the comma there and let the subordinating conjunction “being necessary” do it’s job,

With the original writing not butchered by the greedy gun lobby we can agree on the way Justice Burger reads it and what gun scum pulled off:

A NIxon Appointed Supreme Court Justice.

“*The gun lobby’s interpretation of the Second Amendment is one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud, *on the American People by special interest groups that I have seen in my lifetime” — comes from an interview kBurger gave to PBS News in 1991.
And
“the real purpose of the Second Amendment was to ensure that state armies, the militia, would be maintained for the defense of the state” comes from an articles Burger wrote for The Associated Press about the Bill of Rights in 1991.
and
“The very language of the Second Amendment refutes any argument that it was intended to guarantee every citizen an unfettered right to any kind of weapon he or she desires” — comes from an articles Burger wrote for The Associated Press about the Bill of Rights in 1991.






So what did you learn? The above is a sentence that is separated by three commas, Burger is right .. the sentence cannot be split at the commas into two separate thoughts. The first phrases do not make sense without being connected to the end,

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, ????

So the Feds cannot infringe upon the right of the people to keep and bear arms to protect the state as part of a well regulated militia


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Tell me Big Bend Texas if you regard these two  or four to be law abiding gun owners in America up until they did this:
> 
> In 2020, Boogaloo extremists reportedly sought to embed themselves in the George Floyd protests, hoping that they could use the cover of the demonstrators *to murder law enforcement officials and spark a race war*.​​
> 
> ...


Have you always been such an idiot? Obviously they are not law abiding citizens if they are committing acts of terrorism.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I ask you this @Big Bend Texas because it’s all related to January 6 and what your sides’ political machine decided and attempted to do on the that pivotal date, was shit on the voting rights of 88 million Democrats who voted for Biden. Nine out of 10 black American voters are in that total.


Why do you continue lying?  I've never been a Trump supporter or voter.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> No. Let’s leave the comma there and let the subordinating conjunction “being necessary” do it’s job,
> 
> With the original writing not butchered by the greedy gun lobby we can agree on the way Justice Burger reads it and what gun scum pulled off:
> 
> ...



You keep editing the full quote:  The right of _*the people*_ to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.  It is a separate statement.  Otherwise it would read "the right of a militia to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."  

So riddle me this:  how could a disarmed militia defend their state?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> This is all part of the same gun debate that led to the deaths of black people in the supermarket, 19 ten year olds in a classroom and a doctor and three others in a hospital all by assault rifle in two weeks.


No it isn't.  The only guns used during the January 6th riot are those used by capitol police.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Why do you continue lying? I've never been a Trump supporter or voter.


Do you ever vote for Trump’s Party?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You keep editing the full quote:  The right of _*the people*_ to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.  It is a separate statement.  Otherwise it would read "the right of a militia to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
> 
> So riddle me this:  how could a disarmed militia defend their state?


Simple, like the rest of the gun grabbers he has to intentionally misrepresent it in order to use it to bolster his arguments.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Do you ever vote for Trump’s Party?


I don't vote for parties, I'm an independent and always have been.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Then you must have glanced at it and not actually read it.  It clearly states that the English language was used differently at the time.  Therefore the Constitution must be read according to how they used English back in their day.


If the Constitution is not read in the language of the Day and Context of the times in which it is written you can make it say anything you want, thus rendering it moot.

The Constitution has always been an impediment blocking their path to "Progress".


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Why do you continue lying? I've never been a Trump supporter or voter.


Why did you lie right there?   I did not say you are a Trump supporter liar voter. I said very distinctly “your sides”. political machine. 

I ask you this Big Bend Texas because it’s all related to *January 6 and what your sides’ political machine decided and attempted to do *on the that pivotal date, was shit on the voting rights of 88 million Democrats who voted for Biden. Nine out of 10 black American voters are in that total


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 3, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Simple, like the rest of the gun grabbers he has to intentionally misrepresent it in order to use it to bolster his arguments.



He's defenseless because to my knowledge, no founder or forefather ever wrote that our society should be disarmed.  There are plenty of quotes stating the opposite.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Why did you lie right there?   I did not say you are a Trump supporter liar voter. I said very distinctly “your sides”. political machine.
> 
> I ask you this Big Bend Texas because it’s all related to *January 6 and what your sides’ political machine decided and attempted to do *on the that pivotal date, was shit on the voting rights of 88 million Democrats who voted for Biden. Nine out of 10 black American voters are in that total


You lie reflexively.  "My side" did not participate in nor support the riot at the Capitol on January 6th and none of this has anything to do with a discussion of gun rights and the 2nd Amendment.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> He's defenseless because to my knowledge, no founder or forefather ever wrote that our society should be disarmed.  There are plenty of quotes stating the opposite.


The Right to Keep and Bear is as essential to liberty as the right to speak out against bad government.

They knew this and they knew you could not have an effective unorganized militia at the local level, much less raise a large militia in an emergency if they were not themselves already equipped with and proficient in the use of their own arms.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Why did you lie right there?   I did not say you are a Trump supporter liar voter. I said very distinctly “your sides”. political machine.
> 
> I ask you this Big Bend Texas because it’s all related to *January 6 and what your sides’ political machine decided and attempted to do *on the that pivotal date, was shit on the voting rights of 88 million Democrats who voted for Biden. Nine out of 10 black American voters are in that total



President Trump's exact words were "We are going to march to the Capital peacefully and patriotically."  In fact if you are familiar with the entire thing, Trump offered military support ahead of time so that something like the riot couldn't break out.  His offer was refused by DC stating it would be bad optics.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> President Trump's exact words were "We are going to march to the Capital peacefully and patriotically."  In fact if you are familiar with the entire thing, Trump offered military support ahead of time so that something like the riot couldn't break out.  His offer was refused by DC stating it would be bad optics.


They never let the facts get in the way of a good rant.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> I don't vote for parties, I'm an independent and always have been.


You should have no problem answering the following if you believe all American voters even voters who do not own guns should have their votes counted and winners and losers should be settled peacefully in accordance with the Constitution.

IS IT TRUE or FALSE?



NotfooledbyW said:


> Trump attempted to use fake electors from seven states that Biden won to force Mike Pence to deny counting those seven states which was an attempt to *throw the 2020 election into chaos on Jan6.*






NotfooledbyW said:


> And can you agree that the lawful gun owner, Stewart Rhodes, the founder of the Oath keepers, should be convicted of the Seditious Conspiracy charges against him for the role he played in *helping Trump create chaos on Jan6 to* stay in power.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 3, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> The Right to Keep and Bear is as essential to liberty as the right to speak out against bad government.
> 
> They knew this and they knew you could not have an effective unorganized militia at the local level, much less raise a large militia in an emergency if they were not themselves already equipped with and proficient in the use of their own arms.



Which is why he never answered my question on how could an unarmed militia defend their state?  The state didn't provide weapons, and you didn't sign up for a militia like you do for the military today.  If a militia was needed, you had to bring your own arms and ammo.  That could never happen in a disarmed society.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> President Trump's exact words were "We are going to march to the Capital peacefully and patriotically."


He certainly did. Did he also; 

Trump attempted to use fake electors from seven states that Biden won to force Mike Pence to deny counting those seven states which was an attempt to throw the 2020 election into chaos on Jan6.

Yes or no?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You should have no problem answering the following if you believe all American voters even voters who do not own guns should have their votes counted and winners and losers should be settled peacefully in accordance with the Constitution.
> 
> IS IT TRUE or FALSE?


We shouldn't have to put up with your continuing to attempt to derail this thread.

I support the right to protest, I do not support the "right" to attempt to undo the results of an election by force even if you believe the other side stole the election.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> He certainly did. Did he also;
> 
> Trump attempted to use fake electors from seven states that Biden won to force Mike Pence to deny counting those seven states which was an attempt to throw the 2020 election into chaos on Jan6.
> 
> Yes or no?


Stop derailing the thread


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 3, 2022)

DBA with what do you disagree ? Why? Are you Swiss?


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Which is why he never answered my question on how could an unarmed militia defend their state?



There is no such thing as an unarmed militia.as I and Justice Berger read the SA because all citizens have a right to keep and bear arms and hunt food and defend property as long as they are part of a well regulated community organized militia for the common defense or community defense in times of emergency,

What we have in modern times is some cobbled up right bestowed upon any cockamamie hillbilly or troubled youth who wants a gun to have essy access to them and zero association or obligation to their community* “regulated” (in the SA but forgotten)* in some way that firearms be strictly used and SECURED in the preservation of the common good and safety of all.

Jan6 was not in the common good that the SA is supposed to protect.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> There is no such thing as an unarmed militia.as I snd Justice Berger read the SA because all citizens have a right to keep and bear arms and hunt food and defend property as long as they are part of a well regulated community organized militia for the common defense or community defense in tones of emergency,


Burger made that up because he feared an armed populace.  There is nothing in the writings of the founders who drafted, passed, and ratified the BOR supporting such an idiotic claim.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> We shouldn't have to put up with your continuing to attempt to derail this thread.


the whimpering chiro of the yellow bellied posting warbler


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> There is no such thing as an unarmed militia.as I snd Justice Berger read the SA because all citizens have a right to keep and bear arms and hunt food and defend property as long as they are part of a well regulated community organized militia for the common defense or community defense in tones of emergency,
> 
> What we have in modern times is some cobbled up right bestowed upon any cockamamie hillbilly or troubled youth who wants a gun to have essy access to them and zero association or obligation to their community* “regulated” (in the SA but forgotten)* in some way that firearms be strictly used and SECURED in the preservation of the common good and safety of all.
> 
> Jan6 was not in the common good that the SA is supposed to protect.


Jan 6th was not an armed insurrection and has nothing to do with a discussion of gun laws and rights so stop trying to derail the thread.

If an armed militia had taken the capitol by force that day we'd have a reason to discuss gun rights in that context but since they didn't this is just more bullshit and distraction on your part.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> the whimpering cry of the yellow bellied posts


Stop derailing the thread.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Burger made that up because he feared an armed populace


Source?


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> And what would you suggest?



Consequent strict weapon laws - and a very high barrier for the private use of war weapons.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> We lock people up for committing crimes.



Too many people - much too long - in the wrong private institutions.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Throughout the years our liberal judges turned prisons into lowlife playgrounds, so criminals don't have a huge fear of being locked up.



Why should they have fear?



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Most of them have been in prison before.



I heard from "the Germanitor" - he's one of your policemen - that his people (="you") have a trend not to give a fair second chance. So what you say here has perhaps partially something to do with reality - but represents in lots of other cases perhaps only a prejudice. I remember in this context someone who got a job after he had been in prison. The police arrested him without any reason to do so for three days and so the result had been he lost this job. Later he had a new job - and again came a warrant of arrest - also without any sense - but this time he fled and asked for help before to be again in a totally helpless situation in jail and to lose again this job. ...



Ray From Cleveland said:


> The police are only good AFTER a crime is committed.



Another way to see such a problem is for example the sentence _"A policemen is the first social worker in front of the real problems of a societey." _Could be a good idea to listen what real policemen say and to think about what kind of training they really need.




Ray From Cleveland said:


> Up to that point you can only defend yourself and family against an attacker.



Why should someone attack you or a member of your family? How high is this risk? How high is the risk to get probems because of the own weapon-fetishism? What makes this all with your complete country? ...



Ray From Cleveland said:


> How does one do that against an armed criminal?



I remember in this context that I stepped once - I was very young - between some policemen and a bank robber with my back to the policemen and my face to the robber. Life is life-threatening - but in this case no one had to die.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> I'm a black belt in Kenpo.



In what? ... Ed Parkers Kenpo ... Hmmm ... pragmatism in the centre, I guess. I'm not only a friend of pragmatism.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> One of the lessons they teach you is there is no reasonable way to defend yourself against a person with a gun.



So it makes sense to make strict weapon laws.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> If they have the gun and you don't, you lost that battle.



Maybe. Maybe not. The bible says: "Who takes the gun will die by the gun."



Ray From Cleveland said:


> They're either going to seriously injure or kill you, or otherwise take all your personal belongings.



Why should anyone kill me - except he is a Nazi. Since decades I live with the imagination one day I will leave my home and a Nazi is stabbing me in the back. That's not any reason for me to buy a weapon although I am on a death list of the Nazis.


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 3, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Slaves to guns?  You actually are insane.
> 
> Thanks for clearing that up for us.



And how will end your stupid standard propaganda play for extremists? To kill and to let kill?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> And how will end your stupid standard propaganda play for extremists? To kill and to let kill?


You make less sense with each post.  Extremists will get the tools they desire whether they are legal or not.


----------



## DBA (Jun 3, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> DBA with what do you disagree ? Why? Are you Swiss?


Not Swiss, but I disagree with just about everything you say regarding guns in the US. You seem to have this fantasy that we can ban guns and they will all just go away. The United States is much, much, much larger than Germany, in fact, our country is almost as large as all of Europe.  The ideas that work in your very small countries to not always translate to countries as large and diverse as the US.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> He could have killed and wounded many times that number if he'd just waiting till school got out and the kids were lined up to get on busses and hanging out on the lawn by ramming his truck through them.


FACTS though: he waited 8 months to turn 18 to easily and legally buy his weapon
 of choice an assault rifle.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> FACTS though: he waited 8 months to turn 18 to easily and legally buy his weapon
> of choice an assault rifle.


The fact is we don't know when he decided to shoot up the school and there's no indication he was planning it that far ahead.


----------



## Flash (Jun 3, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> I support the right to protest, I do not support the "right" to attempt to undo the results of an election by force even if you believe the other side stole the election.


Even when the election was blatantly stolen like it was in 2020?  Stolen elections should be overturned.

If Americans can't protest against a stolen election then what in the hell should they protest against?


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

Big Bend Texas 


Big Bend Texas said:


> There is nothing in the writings of the founders who drafted, passed, and ratified the BOR supporting such an idiotic claim.


Except this one sentence.


----------



## Flash (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> FACTS though: he waited 8 months to turn 18 to easily and legally buy his weapon
> of choice an assault rifle.


Fun fact: the last four mass shootings were by nutcases that passed the Federal background check.

That shows us that background checks are absolutely worthless, doesn't it?

How come the stupid Liberals are telling us that we should do more?  That is kinda stupid, isn't it?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Big Bend Texas
> 
> Except this one sentence.
> 
> View attachment 653412


And again, the right is specifically assigned to "The People", not the militia.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

Flash said:


> Fun fact: the last four mass shootings were by nutcases that passed the Federal background check.
> 
> That shows us that background checks are absolutely worthless, doesn't it?
> 
> How come the stupid Liberals are telling us that we should do more?  That is kinda stupid, isn't it?


Background checks are only as good as the information entered into the system.

If we want to actually reduce the number of mass shootings all we need to do is to act within existing law to have those deemed too dangerous and/or unstable to possess or purchase firearms declared mentally defective.

That requires a 72hr stay for evaluation in a Nut ward or mental hospital and a court hearing for the judge to then declare them ineligible.

The court clerk of Sheriff's Dep't is then required to notify the FBI of the findings of the court so that NICS will kick back any application.

Just as importantly if not more so, there needs to be a change in law allowing citizens to access the NICS system to clear private transfers without having to go through an FFL.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> The fact is we don't know when he decided to shoot up the school and there's no indication he was planning it that far ahead.


But you do know that he would’ve bought an illegal shotgun and done it on that same day anyway instead of waiting 90 days to allow a review of his personal history and now days social media content. How is it that you know that? 

If I decided to become a good guy with a gun I would be glad to disclose emails tax returns message boards whatever they want for me to own one of those cool guns to make me look like the special ops guys eho killed Bin Laden when Biden was VP


----------



## Flash (Jun 3, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Background checks are only as good as the information entered into the system.
> 
> If we want to actually reduce the number of mass shootings all we need to do is to act within existing law to have those deemed too dangerous and/or unstable to possess or purchase firearms declared mentally defective.
> 
> ...


Background checks are terrible for four reasons:

1.  They don't work.

2.  They are an assumption of guilty until proven innocent.

3.  They are the government giving permission for a right guaranteed in the Bill of Rights.

4.  See Number 1.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

Flash said:


> They are the government giving permission for a right guaranteed in the Bill of Rights.


There's a great many felons and spouse abusers that are legally ineligible and they need to be caught before buying the gun rather than after when they already can do great harm before they can be interdicted.

I can't vote without showing ID and my name checked against the eligible voters list so I see no actual infringement.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> And again, the right is specifically assigned to "The People", not the militia.


You say an “individual” even a loner not “people” , an individual with no “regulated” even sejf regulated process by the people, has a right to buy any firearm they desire for any random purpose with no intrusive inquiries by “people” as why he wants to buy it. 






Here is your interpretation of something written 240 years ago 

It has nothing to do with a well regulated militia being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the individual to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed but with specific exceptions decided by the Federal Government shall be infringed.


----------



## Flash (Jun 3, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> There's a great many felons and spouse abusers that are legally ineligible and they need to be caught before buying the gun rather than after when they already can do great harm before they can be interdicted.
> 
> I can't vote without showing ID and my name checked against the eligible voters list so I see no actual infringement.


My three reasons are all valid.

Background checks are an absolute waste of time.  It is nothing more than a placebo for Liberals.  As we have seen in several high profile shootings lately they just don't work.  It would take a tremendous amount of government intrusions into our lives to enter everything that Liberals would consider a threat into some massive government data base. 

However, the best reason to reject background checks is the third one I mentioned in my list.  The Bill of Rights is a guarantee of a right. Background checks is a method of the filthy government giving us permission to enjoy a right.  If we have to get government permission to enjoy the rights then the Bill of Rights isn't worth the paper it is written on, is it?

Besides, nobody in their right mind would want to let a Liberal decide if they could have Liberty or not because the Liberals can't be trusted.   Know what I mean?

The great amount of gun crime in this country is among the criminal and street thugs in the Democrat controlled big city shitholes and is done with firearms that are obtained illegally.  Background checks are no factor in the crimes and any additional requirement won't change anything.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 3, 2022)

Flash said:


> My three reasons are all valid.
> 
> Background checks are an absolute waste of time.  It is nothing more than a placebo for Liberals.  As we have seen in several high profile shootings lately they just don't work.  It would take a tremendous amount of government intrusions into our lives to enter everything that Liberals would consider a threat into some massive government data base.
> 
> ...


You remain incorrect.  All rights up to and including the Right to Life can be lost through due process.

If you have lost your rights due to a conviction you cannot legally purchase or possess a firearm.

IF an ineligible person fails a background check and it can be shown the person either knew or had reason to know they were ineligible and why they can be prosecuted for the crime of lying on the FFL and should be.

Time and again we see where someone tried to purchase a gun through an FFL dealer and failed the background check to only then buy one on the black market or through a straw purchaser thence committing a crime with that gun.

If they were off the streets awaiting trial or incarcerated they would be stopped then from committing said crimes.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 3, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> AR15s are not assault rifles.
> And thus, your repeated claims to that effect are false.
> Why do you continue to make claims you know are false?
> 
> Your arguments were dismissed 2 decades ago.


An AR-15 is an assault rifle 









						Definition of ASSAULT RIFLE
					

any of various intermediate-range, magazine-fed military rifles (such as the AK-47) that can be set for automatic or semiautomatic fire; also : a rifle that resembles a military assault rifle but is designed to allow only semiautomatic fire… See the full definition




					www.merriam-webster.com


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> If we want to actually reduce the number of mass shootings all we need to do is to act within existing law to have those deemed too dangerous and/or unstable to possess or purchase firearms declared mentally defective.



Can we all as democracy loving law abiding American citizens deem Flash dangerous to our democracy for his advocating using force and firearms to undo the results of a Presidential election that is certified by all fifty states in accordance with the Constitutional requirement to be certified by mid-December?


Big Bend Texas said:


> I support the right to protest*, I do not support the "right" to attempt to undo the results of an election by force *even if you believe the other side stole the election.





Flash said:


> Even when the election was blatantly stolen like it was in 2020?


Flash assumed to be a law winding gun owner says:  *Stolen elections should be overturned.*


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 3, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> There's a great many felons and spouse abusers that are legally ineligible and they need to be caught before buying the gun rather than after when they already can do great harm before they can be interdicted.
> 
> I can't vote without showing ID and my name checked against the eligible voters list so I see no actual infringement.



Checking that somebody is who they actually say they are, and "whoever" deciding whether you should be allowed to buy a gun or not are two different things.  

I read the Biden agenda when he was running.  In his gun plans he (and his Congress) wanted a $800.00 fee for a federal license to buy a gun to fund a background check from a licensed shrink.  They wanted to interview your wife, kids, parents, neighbors, coworkers and even your ex if you had one.  If anybody had a negative opinion of you buying a gun, guess what, you don't get to buy one  

Even if all that checks out, the anti-gun shrink would still be able to deny your rights based on his or her opinion about you.  

No, it didn't pass (yet) but this is their ultimate goal.  You know leftists as well as I do.  They say they want X, and once they get X, they move to getting Y and so on.  Let them start going down that road and Biden's plan will be part of a gun purchase. In other words, just about nobody will be able to legally buy a gun.  

Giving them any additional power is only lighting a fuse we may regret down the road.  For instance you may have a personal situation where anti-depressant medication could help.  But you know once that prescription is on record, the government is coming to take all your guns away.  That would give you the choice of medication that will make you feel better and losing your guns, or to suffer the condition you suffer from to keep them.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Why does a Supreme Court dismiss one half of the SA as irrelevant 220 years after it was written?


Your argument was dismissed over 2 decades ago.
Thus, your complaints are meaningless.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Scalia: 'Like most rights, the Second Amendment is not unlimited​if it is not unlimited, that precisely means it can be limited in one or many ways.


Which, like with all right, in no way means that it can be limited in any and every way.     
That is, just because the right can be limited in no way means it can be limited in the way YOU want.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> To ignore the militia reference they said the framers were hacking up a Hairball.


Your argument was dismissed over 2 decades ago.
Thus, your complaints are meaningless.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 3, 2022)

Flash said:


> Fun fact: the last four mass shootings were by nutcases that passed the Federal background check.
> 
> That shows us that background checks are absolutely worthless, doesn't it?
> 
> How come the stupid Liberals are telling us that we should do more?  That is kinda stupid, isn't it?



For their political agenda, no it isn't. 

Liberals have turned our country into a freak show by baby steps.  Baby steps is how they get what the ultimately want.  I remember when I was a kid.  All they wanted was for gays to be let out of the closet.  If they could have that, they'd be happy.  Fast forward to today, the Supreme Court ruled that all states must allow gay marriage.  They get priority with adoption rights that normal couples who have been waiting for years for a child don't get. 

I remember when they wanted to outlaw smoking in movie theaters.  Smoke wherever you want, just not in a theater, and they'll be happy.  Fast forward to today, and there are places you can't even smoke outside in a park or on a beach.  In many states like mine you can't smoke at work, in a bar, or even a bowling alley.  

Now they say they want expanded background checks and a ban on so-called assault weapons.  Give them that, and they'll be happy?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> What about ten GOP half woke Senators


Nothing here changes the fact your argument was dismissed over 2 decades ago.
Thus, your complaints are meaningless.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Ray From Cleveland is in favor of unsafe storage of firearms. No wonder half a million guns are stolen every year.


Ah.  
You are ignorant of the fact a legal requirement to secure your firearms violates the constitution.
No surprise.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Although a period instead of a comma between “free state. the right of the


Your argument was dismissed 2 decades ago.
Thus, your opinion is meaningless.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 3, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Consequent strict weapon laws - and a very high barrier for the private use of war weapons.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As I told you before, I'm not responding to your replies sentence by sentence.  If you don't know how to respond without breaking the post up into a dozen sections, go back to your former school teachers and tell them they failed you.  I don't have the time for that bullshit.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> FACTS though: he waited 8 months to turn 18 to easily and legally buy his weapon
> of choice an assault rifle.


You have no factual basis for your assumption that he would not have bought a shotgun, has ne been unable to get an AR.
As such, your claim that moving the purchase age for ARs to 21 would have stopped this shooting is unsupportable nonsense.
But, you know all this.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

Flash said:


> Stolen elections should be overturned.





M14 Shooter said:


> Your argument was dismissed over 2 decades ago.
> Thus, your


You are not responding to my argument against the Supreme Court decision 20 years ago because it is a question about that decision 20 years ago.Here it is again

Why does a Supreme Court dismiss one half of the SA as irrelevant 220 years after it was written?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> There is no such thing as an unarmed militia.as I and Justice Berger read the SA because all citizens have a right to keep and bear arms and hunt food and defend property as long as they are part of a well regulated community organized militia for the common defense or community defense in times of emergency,
> 
> What we have in modern times is some cobbled up right bestowed upon any cockamamie hillbilly or troubled youth who wants a gun to have essy access to them and zero association or obligation to their community* “regulated” (in the SA but forgotten)* in some way that firearms be strictly used and SECURED in the preservation of the common good and safety of all.
> 
> Jan6 was not in the common good that the SA is supposed to protect.



Okay, so how did one join a militia when none was formed until a threat came along?  How would one belong to a militia if the government had the ability to make firearms illegal and you couldn't own one?  What about people that wanted nothing to do with a militia.  Would they not be allowed to defend themselves and family, hunt for food and just starve out in the wilderness?


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> You have no factual basis for your assumption that he would not have bought a shotgun, has ne been unable to get an A



You have no factual basis for your assumption that he would have bought a shotgun, has ne been unable to get an A

Do you see how reality works yet?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You are not responding to my argument against the Supreme Court decision 20 years ago...


Your argument is irrelevant and requires no response, other than to note it was dismissed 2 decades ago.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You have no factual basis for your assumption...


Your claimed raising the aget to 21 would have stopped the shooting.
This can only be true if you can demonstrate he would not have bought another gun.
Which you know you cannot do.
Thus, your claim is nonsense.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> In the Uvalde Texas massacre the shooter turned 18, bought two AR15s and within a week murdered 19 kids and two teachers. And you gun whackos argue that raising the age to 21 would not save these kids.



You cannot prove he would have gunned down these kids right after he turned 18 with a different weapon.

There’s an entire different set of realities if the age limit has been set at 21. You say there is only one reality In order to preserve a manufactured right for a loner  at age 18 to easily purchase the weapon of his choice that he plans to use to murder as many school kids as he has ammo.



NotfooledbyW said:


> I advocate that there’s a waiting period, when a young 18-year-old wants to purchase an assault rifle, specifically those that have had no background in the use of firearms or does not have a genuine purpose or interest or need to have one. Because he wants one ain’t cutting it:
> 
> If there was just a 10 day waiting period in the Uvalde Texas massacre these kids would be out of schooom and alive and enjoying their summer just like you are probably about to do.



 Again, it is not worth it to gun scum to allow even a 10 day waiting period. And you have no way of knowing if that might  have had a chance at saving these kids. You claim these children’s lives were already going to be extinguished on the day that Ramos turned 18 if he had to wait 10 days to obtain his gun, When they would be out of school Enjoying their summer as guns, like you are doing right now.




Ray From Cleveland said:


> Okay, so how did one join a militia when none was formed until a threat came along?



You don’t. The well regulated militia referred to in the second amendment as written Is formed within each community and regulated by the community the same as building a church together. So there. You are not arguing with me, you are arguing with yourself.




M14 Shooter said:


> Your claimed raising the aget to 21 would have stopped the shooting.
> This can only be true if you can demonstrate he would not have bought another gun.


I do not have to demonstrate anything. Since you cannot demonstrate that he would’ve taken a different weapon and committed the atrocity at the exact moment that it happened.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You cannot prove he would have gunned down these kids right after he turned 18 with a different weapon.


Your claimed raising the age to 21 would have stopped the shooting.
This can only be true if you can demonstrate he would not have bought another gun.
Which you know you cannot do.
Thus, your claim is nonsense.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Your claimed raising the age to 21 would have stopped the shooting.
> This can only be true if you can demonstrate he would not have bought another gun.



I do not have to demonstrate anything. Because you cannot demonstrate that he would’ve taken a different weapon and committed the same atrocity at the exact moment that it happened.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I do not have to demonstrate anything


You do
And you know you can't.
Thus, your claim is nonsense.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> You do
> And you know you can't.
> Thus, your claim is nonsense.


No. He waited 8 months after his sister refused to buy a gun for him. If the law was 21 he may have chosen another means to get a weapon but May 16 would not be the day he waited to get it. No one knows exactly when his attack begins if at all but I don’t believe it is cosmically possible that Ramos attacks the school on the same day at the same time in the exact path with the only exception was he had an illegal shotgun in his hands and the exact number of kids died by bleeding out because law enforcement stopped him
sooner as different situations played out.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> No. He waited 8 months...


Nothing here in any way supports your assumption that he would not have bought a different gun.
As such, your claim that not getting an AR would have stopped this shooting is nonsense.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Nothing here in any way supports your


Can you be more specific I wrote a lot more than that in the post you are responding to. I see your arguments are limited to in generalities only which humors me to think that you have nothing.









						Uvalde survivor takes first legal action against gun manufacturer after deadly school shooting: report
					

A special education staffer at Robb Elementary in Uvalde, Texas, is taking the first step toward legal action against the gun manufacturer, Daniel Defense. According to NPR.org, the latest impending lawsuit is considered the first in the aftermath of the Uvalde school shooting which claimed the...




					www.rawstory.com
				





Great news just breaking.

On Thursday, June 2, court documents were filed in the 38th Judicial District. NPR reports that Emilia "Amy" Marin "petitioned the court to force the company to sit for a deposition, as well as to produce materials related to its website, profits, lobbying, sales, and marketing of AR-15-style rifles like the one used at the shooting."


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Your claimed raising the age to 21 would have stopped the shooting.


Because the date time weapons victims situation wouid be entirely different when his May 16 birthday is not a driving factor.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> How would one belong to a militia if the government had the ability to make firearms illegal and you couldn't own one?


The government can’t make guns illegal in 1790 America with an exact reading of the SA.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Can you be more specific ...


Your claimed raising the age to 21 would have stopped the shooting.   
Woud have.  100% certainty.
This can only be true if you can demonstrate he would not have bought another gun.
Which you know you cannot do.
Thus, your claim is nonsense.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Because the date time weapons victims situation wouid be entirely different when his May 16 birthday is not a driving factor.


Nothing here in any way supports your assumption that he would not have bought a different gun.
As such, your claim that not getting an AR would have stopped this shooting is nonsense.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Nothing here in any way supports your assumption that he would not have bought a different gun.
> As such, your claim that not getting an AR would have stopped this shooting is nonsense.


I said he may have purchased a different gun. Who are you arguing with?

 Here’s what you were responding to

Because the date time *weapons* victims situation wouid be entirely different when his May 16 birthday is not a driving factor.​


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I said he may have purchased a different gun.


Then your claim that raising the age for an AR to 21 would have stopped this shootingsis false.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> The government can’t make guns illegal in 1790 America with an exact reading of the SA.



If gun rights only belonged to members of a militia, why not?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Can you be more specific I wrote a lot more than that in the post you are responding to. I see your arguments are limited to in generalities only which humors me to think that you have nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good.  Let these people waste their money.  Gun manufacturers (and sellers) are protected from these frivolous lawsuits.  A seller of anything is not responsible how their customer used their product.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You cannot prove he would have gunned down these kids right after he turned 18 with a different weapon.
> 
> There’s an entire different set of realities if the age limit has been set at 21. You say there is only one reality In order to preserve a manufactured right for a loner at age 18 to easily purchase the weapon of his choice that he plans to use to murder as many school kids as he has ammo.



I don't know and neither do you.  What I do know about psychos is not allowing them to legally buy a firearm doesn't make them normal.  They will always be psychos and always want to kill.  For all we know, if he did have to wait until the age of 21, he might have gotten another illegal gun when he was 17 and committed these crimes since he couldn't wait that long. 



NotfooledbyW said:


> You don’t. The well regulated militia referred to in the second amendment as written Is formed within each community and regulated by the community the same as building a church together. So there. You are not arguing with me, you are arguing with yourself.



How am I arguing with myself.  Let's go through the dynamics here. 

I'm living back in that time and the state calls for a militia.  The government disarmed me because it was thought that only a militia had these constitutional protections.  How am I to join a militia when I have no firearms?


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> don't know and neither do you. What I do know about psychos is not allowing them to legally buy a firearm doesn't make them normal


Agree what is your point?


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I'm living back in that time and the state calls for a militia


The state is not calling for a militia. Pay attention


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Agree what is your point?



The one I've been making all along:  A 21 year old age limit wouldn't have stopped this psycho from killing other people.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> The state is not calling for a militia. Pay attention



I'm not talking about today, I'm talking when the Constitution was written.  If government made a law that nobody could own a gun, how would the state be able to organize a militia when nobody had guns?


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The government disarmed me because it was thought that only a militia had these constitutional protections.


You are not disarmed because the SA does  not read that only members of Militia  mcan have these constitutional protected right to bear arms It says “the people”. as in people” plural
Had a right to bear Armstrong as in a community of “people, not an individual had a right to bear arms well Regulated within that community of people for The common good and for the preservation of the state. 

That is not what we have now. We have unknown private individuals having the right to buy whatever type of firearm they want to use it for whatever they want, they are not tied to the community of people as a whole in which they live. There are a few normal acting dark souls buying guns with evil intent, but it only takes a few under the current gun lobby interpretation of the second amendment dangerous to make the Current process dangerous. Really dangerous for 10 year olds in classrooms right now turn on armed Black people in supermarkets. We need each community to regulate who should be able to purchase a gun. And pry into his intentions. As the SA Is actually in writing

This is a community militia having nothing to do with the state or government and people possess their own arms. Today would be a gun mentoring community involved with any new member who wants to have possession of a firearm.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I'm not talking about today, I'm talking when the Constitution was written.


I am talking about when the constitution was written in 1790 as well. I am reading the second amendment exactly as it is written. I am not leaving anything out or adding anything to it. I am just reading it.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> If government made a law that nobody could own a gun, how would the state be able to organize a militia when nobody had guns?


Government did not make an alarm in 1790 and nobody could only go. In 1799 would be the last thing on the great minds of the new government. 

The second amendment does not say that the state or any of the states organize the militia.

You are not arguing with me. I have no idea who you arguing with.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The one I've been making all along: A 21 year old age limit wouldn't have stopped this psycho from killing other people.


I have not written that he could not kill other people. I said he would not have killed the people that were killed mostly because his 18th birthday on March 16 would not have been the driving factor of when it occurred. But no one else knows what would’ve been any other incident and not following him with an illegal gun.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You are not disarmed because the SA does  not read that only members of Militia  mcan have these constitutional protected right to bear arms It says “the people”. as in people” plural
> Had a right to bear Armstrong as in a community of “people, not an individual had a right to bear arms well Regulated within that community of people for The common good and for the preservation of the state.


Your argument was dismissed 2 decades ago.
Thus, your opinion is irrelevat.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I'm living back in that time and the state calls for a militia.


I’m living back at that time. I own a Kentucky long rifle for hunting. It hangs above my fireplace. I shot three British officers with it during the war. My community has already formed it’s own militia. If there’s a reason to fight against a threat we all know each other and I’ve done some training on what to do, who leads who communicates and how my rifle has to be used. The second amendment is a confirmation of what the role of the firearm was to play in the future of the new and growing nation. It did not say that I could have any weapon of war that I want for my own personal use.

So communities may organize a well regulated militia, purchase standard rifles and store them in an armory with the gun powder and such. Much like a volunteer fire department keeps the wagon with the water tanks in the central fire house. My long rifle would stay at home perhaps but I am a member of a well regulated militia. And I know everybody in our community who carries a gun.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Your argument was dismissed 2 decades ago.
> Thus, your opinion is irrelevat.


Are you nothing more than a fairly well trained parrot?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Are you nothing more than a fairly well trained parrot?


I'm sorry you don't like the fact your opinion means nothing, but there's nothing I can do about it.
You can pontificate all you want about the 2nd Amendment -- you're still wrong.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> 'm sorry you don't like the fact your opinion means nothing, but there's nothing I can do about it.
> You can pontificate all you want about the 2nd Amendment -- you're still wrong


OK General General. 10:4 But I did learn how to read I think it was in the second grade When guns come didn’t hold their rights to play with an AR 15 higher than my life. So there’s that General General.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> OK General General. 10:4 But I did learn how to read...


And you still choose to be wrong.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> I'm sorry you don't like the fact


I like all facts .  you present few facts if any at all


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> And you still choose to be wrong.


Can you be even a little bit specific.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I like all facts .


Except the one where your argument was dismissed 2 decades ago, rending your opinion irrelevant.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Except the one where your argument was dismissed 2 decades ago, rending your opinion irrelevant.


Provide the link to where my argument was dismissed two decades ago. The court ruling had nothing to do with my argument that  I am making today.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Provide the link to where my argument was dismissed two decades ago.








						DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA v. HELLER
					






					www.law.cornell.edu


----------



## Flash (Jun 3, 2022)




----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA v. HELLER
> 
> 
> 
> ...


(a) The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms. Pp. 2–22.​
If the prefatory clause does not limit or expand the scope of the second part as they  say then the decision is not based on the actual written language of the SA in the operative clause to get the right to an individual. They get to the individual right by citing history and three states that refer to the “individual” right with no association to the public good or restraint on public safety possibly because public safety was not a concern at the time because most colonists that kept firearms on hand and were farmers and the sons probably began shooting about the age of the nineteen slain classmates in Uvalde because we had a ruling that interprets the SA based on history leading up to 1790 when there was no household firearms that can fire thirty lethal rounds in a matter of seconds.  And a disgruntled kid with no Family farming experience can work a week at McDonalds and buy an assault rifle basically handing over the cash abd then commit mass murder with it.

That is a fraudulent interpretation of the SA because they contradict their own meaning of the Amendment’s prefatory clause, when they say it announces a purpose, but *does not* limit or *expand* the scope of the second part.      ….    Then they turn around and expand the operative clause from “people” associated with a local militia to protect the common good to an individual with no association or responsibility to the public’s safety or defense

It’s disgusting to me



I AGREE


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> If the prefatory clause does not limit or expand the scope of the second part as get say,....


The Second Amendment  protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.

None of your arguments matter, as they were all dismissed 2 decades ago.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> OK General General. 10:4 But I did learn how to read I think it was in the second grade When guns come didn’t hold their rights to play with an AR 15 higher than my life. So there’s that General General.



Except for the fact nobody is playing with your life.  99% of all AR owners are law abiding responsible people.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

M14 Shooter 


M14 Shooter said:


> The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia


Yes it does - but that is not how it reads as written in the Constitution. You have never you can try to challenge when I’m writing the past few days.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Yes it does - but that is not how it reads as written in the Constitution


None of your arguments matter, as they were all dismissed 2 decades ago.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Except for the fact nobody is playing with your life. 99% of all AR owners are law abiding responsible people’s



Every time anybody buys a gun and nobody gives a shit why is Republicans playing with my life.

99% of law abiding gun owners are currently losing half a million guns a year to theft, ignorance or selling them on the black market when they need some cash to feed their beer bellies is a lot of guns getting into the hands of criminals Republicans playing with my life


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Every time anybody buys a gun and nobody gives a shit why is Republicans playing with my life


^^^
This is a lie


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> None of your arguments matter, as they were all dismissed 2 decades ago.



It’s an interpretation that prevailed and a lot of needless gun deaths followed


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 3, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> This is a lie



Do you have any specifics? General General?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Do you have any specifics?


Its your claim - burden of proof is on you.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> It’s an interpretation that prevailed and a lot of needless gun deaths followed


Unsupportable nonsense.


----------



## Senter (Jun 3, 2022)

"_The Congress shall have the power to provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;


"To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress

"The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States_"


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Every time anybody buys a gun and nobody gives a shit why is Republicans playing with my life.
> 
> 99% of law abiding gun owners are currently losing half a million guns a year to theft, ignorance or selling them on the black market when they need some cash to feed their beer bellies is a lot of guns getting into the hands of criminals Republicans playing with my life



The only guns sold on the black market are stolen, not people selling their own weapons legally purchased outside of straw buyers.  And what do you mean nobody gives a shit why?  Like what are we supposed to do, ask a future killer why he's buying a gun and their response will be to invade a school and kill a bunch of kids?  Is that how you think they will answer?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 3, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> M14 Shooter
> 
> Yes it does - but that is not how it reads as written in the Constitution. You have never you can try to challenge when I’m writing the past few days.



Multiple courts say otherwise.  They know far more about our founders, the language, the debates of firearms, the punctuation than you can dream of.


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 4, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> You make less sense with each post.  Extremists will get the tools they desire whether they are legal or not.



Your behavior is exactly the behavior of a professional propangandist with an extremist background. In the moment you are in the phase "throw with dirt". So bye bye.


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 4, 2022)

DBA said:


> Not Swiss, but I disagree with just about everything you say regarding guns in the US. ...



Then it was stupid what you disagreed with!


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 4, 2022)

DBA said:


> wgen hewpopres uit a hwl csclsc The United States is much, much, much larger than Germany,



Germany has 3% of the size of the USA. In case you had the same population density then 8 billion people would live in the USA. So you should be compared with us a nation with much less violence.



DBA said:


> in fact, our country is almost as large as all of Europe.  The ideas that work in your very small countries to not always translate to countries as large and diverse as the US.



Japan 0.6 weapons per 100 inhabitants. Germany 32 weapons per 100 inhabitants. USA 120 weapons per 100 inhabitants. We have in Germany the highest number of weapons per inhabitant in whole Europe.

But your titanic problems with weapons have nothing to do with the size of a country. Who sells war weapons to an 18 years old adolescent during a brain reconstruction phase has not to be astonished when 19 children will be murdered faster than anyone is able to react! Your weapon laws - if such laws exist at all in your country - are extremly stupid!!!


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 4, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Your behavior is exactly the behavior of a professional propangandist with an extremist background. In the moment you are in the phase "throw with dirt". So bye bye.


It's not my fault you constantly type gibberish.

"Extremism in defense of Liberty is no vice".

I'm not an extremist, I am however an expert on the subject.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 4, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Germany has 3% of the size of the USA. In case you had the same population density then 8 billion people would live in the USA. So you should be compared with us a nation with much less violence.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No honest comparison of the US with any other nation outside of perhaps Russia can be made since they are the only nation on earth that approximates the conditions in the US culturally, demographically, and geographically.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 4, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> No honest comparison of the US with any other nation outside of perhaps Russia can be made since they are the only nation on earth that approximates the conditions in the US culturally, demographically, and geographically.



They make false arguments all the time.  Our statistics show that people of color commit the most crime per capita, sometimes four times their population size depending on the type of crime.  Take people of color out of the mix and our country compares to other white and single culture countries even with all our guns.  

The larger the population, the more mentally disturbed people any country will have.  Here we don't lock up people who might commit a crime, we lock up people after they commit a crime.


----------



## Flash (Jun 4, 2022)




----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 4, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> They make false arguments all the time.  Our statistics show that people of color commit the most crime per capita, sometimes four times their population size depending on the type of crime.  Take people of color out of the mix and our country compares to other white and single culture countries even with all our guns.
> 
> The larger the population, the more mentally disturbed people any country will have.  Here we don't lock up people who might commit a crime, we lock up people after they commit a crime.


Europe doesn't have the problem because they haven't raised five generations of kids with the "Ghetto Gangsta" mentality or Ghetto entitlement mentality.

Those countries much like we were a hundred years ago are almost completely monocultural with very few immigrants as a portion of their total population.

Most of their most violent breeding stock were also killed off by the tens of millions during the last century during WWI and WWII.


----------



## Flash (Jun 4, 2022)

I bet that if the fucking corrupt US government had to go through a background check before buying any firearms it would fail.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 4, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Japan 0.6 weapons per 100 inhabitants. Germany 32 weapons per 100 inhabitants. USA 120 weapons per 100 inhabitants.


Japan also has the highest suicide rates in the world and holds the record for murders with a knife by a single individual.



			https://www.cnn.com/2016/07/25/world/japan-knife-attack-deaths/index.html
		


A lack of access to firearms won't stop anyone from killing themselves or launching a mass murder attack with other means.


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 4, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Like what are we supposed to do, ask a future killer why he's buying a gun and their response will be to invade a school and kill a bunch of kids?


You can start by stop being a smart ass gun scum asshole?  No don’t ask a future killer anything directly dumb ass. But have him have an application where he has to disclose several months or years of his social media record. If he’s not contemplating mass murder he probably shouldn’t have anything to hide. I don’t. They’re right to buy a gun that looks like an assault rifle is already a clue. I know you were hate to hear that but it’s true. Republicans are responsible for these mass shooting deaths. That’s not even arguable anymore and you are the poster boy for irresponsibility on gun safety actually


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 4, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> A lack of access to firearms won't stop anyone from killing themselves or launching a mass murder attack with other means.


False. Make it harder. What are you afraid of from down there in Gunutopia Texas


----------



## NotfooledbyW (Jun 4, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Multiple courts say otherwise.


They don’t say that’s not how it reads. The courts Jerked the American people around with this one. But the gun scum extremists have made it even worse because the court says that the second amendment is not unlimited.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 4, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> They don’t say that’s not how it reads. The courts Jerked the American people around with this one. But the gun scum extremists have made it even worse because the court says that the second amendment is not unlimited.



It's never been unlimited.  How many decades has it been illegal for a felon to be in possession of a firearm?  

There is a point that crosses limitation into infringement.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 4, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You can start by stop being a smart ass gun scum asshole?  No don’t ask a future killer anything directly dumb ass. But have him have an application where he has to disclose several months or years of his social media record. If he’s not contemplating mass murder he probably shouldn’t have anything to hide. I don’t. They’re right to buy a gun that looks like an assault rifle is already a clue. I know you were hate to hear that but it’s true. Republicans are responsible for these mass shooting deaths. That’s not even arguable anymore and you are the poster boy for irresponsibility on gun safety actually



Oh, so now we're supposed to determine intent by "how a gun looks?"  

If he's writing of mass murders on social media, it's likely been removed by the media company within hours after being posted.  But like I said, if we are going to have people apply and be investigated to exercise a constitutional right, I'm all for it if the same applies to voting.  Deal?


----------



## FJB (Jun 4, 2022)

I don't have to time to read through this entire thread as it's way too long, but what would happen if we started blaming drunk driving on alcohol and vehicles and house fires on houses in general? Pretty soon we're not going to have anything left if we start taking away every little thing that could be even remotely dangerous.


----------



## flacaltenn (Jun 4, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You can start by stop being a smart ass gun scum asshole?  No don’t ask a future killer anything directly dumb ass. But have him have an application where he has to disclose several months or years of his social media record. If he’s not contemplating mass murder he probably shouldn’t have anything to hide. I don’t. They’re right to buy a gun that looks like an assault rifle is already a clue. I know you were hate to hear that but it’s true. Republicans are responsible for these mass shooting deaths. That’s not even arguable anymore and you are the poster boy for irresponsibility on gun safety actually



Nobody's gonna take the time reviewing EVERY NICS app for "social media" history.  Innocent until SOMEONE charges them and tries them.  SO -- you dont spy on 240,000 citizens submitting NICS apps.  You start forcing schools and law enforcement to investigate THEMSELVES.  Dont care if the District needs another 8 people to do this or FARM it out to the BATF who CAN do it.  Have THEM report to the schools and local law enforcement what they found. Simple -- common sense -- how it should work RIGHT NOW.  But one major problem is -*- MOST school systems started SHIELDING the kids from having ANY NOTES about discipline problems on their records.  THAT ALONE -- being forwarded to law enforcement for investigation and possible CHARGING -- would have STOPPED COLD at LEAST four major school shootings that I know of.

You cannot SHIELD students who have threatened or committed violent acts and expect all of this NOT to happen.  *


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 4, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> No honest comparison of the US with any other nation outside of perhaps Russia can be made since they are the only nation on earth that approximates the conditions in the US culturally, demographically, and geographically.



The USA is a union of more and less shithole countries calling everyone else in the world shithole country while the own weapon fetishism takes care that adolescent US-citizens  have the freedom, ability and possibility to mass-murder children of citizens of the USA. You call this _"striving for happiness - inspiring others to live as murderous as possible"._


----------



## FJB (Jun 4, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> The USA is a union of more and less shithole countries calling everyone else in the world shithole country while the own weapon fetishism takes care that adolescent US-citizens  have the freedom, ability and possibility to mass-murder children of citizens of the USA. You call this _"striving for happiness - inspiring others to live as murderous as possible"._




I know this doesn't compare but what about the people who choose to eat way too much and wind up with diabetes? Does that mean nobody should ever eat any sugary sweets?


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 4, 2022)

FJB said:


> I don't have to time to read through this entire thread as it's way too long, but what would happen if we started blaming drunk driving on alcohol and vehicles and house fires on houses in general? Pretty soon we're not going to have anything left if we start taking away every little thing that could be even remotely dangerous.



The worst sickness of the Russians is vodka-heroism - what becomes not better by replacing Vodka with other drugs like cocaine or war weapons or other murderous drunken nonsense.


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 4, 2022)

FJB said:


> I know this doesn't compare but what about the people who choose to eat way too much and wind up with diabetes? Does that mean nobody should ever eat any sugary sweets?



Someone murdered 19 children + 2 other children of god and hurted many others in a school with one of the very best security concepts of the world. Try to accept reality:  You "cure" with "more and more dangerous weapons for everyone" not only nothing - this makes this sickness only more worse.


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 4, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Europe doesn't have the problem because they haven't raised five generations of kids with the "Ghetto Gangsta" mentality or Ghetto entitlement mentality. ...



What's a wrong nonsensic view to this problem. A short time after your first school-massacres we had them here in Germany. That's like a kind of natural law; Whatever happens in the USA will happen also a short time later in Germany. We tried to solve this problem in many ways - but not by selling to adolsecent 18 years old children during a brain reconstruction phase machine guns and to hurt war weapon control laws.


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 4, 2022)

Flash said:


> View attachment 653865



And why should president Joe Biden listen to the nonsense Senator Joe Biden said in 1985 when the  USA had been another world?


----------



## Flash (Jun 4, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> And why should president Joe Biden listen to the nonsense Senator Joe Biden said in 1985 when the  USA had been another world?


The sonofabitch has no real moral convictions on anything.  He just wings it most of the time.


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 4, 2022)

Flash said:


> The sonofabitch has no real moral convictions on anything.  He just wings it most of the time.



What you say here is a hate message - and not critics. By the way: Did anyone notice the nonsense you said in 1985 - 37 years in the past? Nevertheless you have to suffer the problems which are made since the 1970ies in the USA and which became from year to year more worse. Weapon trades are in the center of this problems - as far as I can see.


----------



## Flash (Jun 4, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> What you say here is a hate message - and not critics. By the way: Did anyone notice the nonsense you said in 1985 - 37 years in the past? Nevertheless you have to suffer the problems which are made since the 1970ies in the USA and which became from year to year more worse. Weapon trades are in the center of this problems - as far as I can see.


Yes, I know.  You Germans have a record of taking firearms away from certian civilans for "public safety" reasons, don't you?


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 4, 2022)

Flash said:


> Yes, I know.  You Germans have a record of taking firearms away from certian civilans for "public safety" reasons, don't you?



No idea how to translate this. What do you like to say? In Germany you need a license for every gun. War weapons are out of any discussion. No one has to have a private machine gun or a private nuke or something like this. It exist not only weapon laws but also war weapon control laws or the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and such things.


----------



## FJB (Jun 4, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> No idea how to translate this.



 In other words, Germans were fucking Nazis. Is that better?


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 4, 2022)

FJB said:


> In other words, Germans were fucking Nazis. Is that better?



In other words: US-Americans murdered millons of Germans and reduced Germany to rubble in WW1+2 - which ended the good old time where wishes still came true - although Germany never had done anything bad to the USA in the whole history of the USA. By the way: God likes to speak with you.

Somehow it's funny that most US-Americans hate us -although we never did do anything bad to your country - while we still try to love you although we have an universe of real reasons to hate "you".


----------



## Flash (Jun 4, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> No idea how to translate this. What do you like to say? In Germany you need a license for every gun. War weapons are out of any discussion. No one has to have a private machine gun or a private nuke or something like this. It exist not only weapon laws but also war weapon control laws or the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and such things.


The last thing this country needs are Nazi like laws taking away our Constitutional rights.

Eurotrash may love it but nobody really cares what they think anyhow.


----------



## zaangalewa (Jun 4, 2022)

Flash said:


> The last thing this country needs are Nazi like laws taking away our Constitutional rights.
> 
> Eurotrash may love it but nobody really cares what they think anyhow.



Nobody is you, I guess.


----------



## Issa (Jun 5, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> And you have my support on those items.  Unfortunately along the way, leftist judges ruled many treatments of prisoners as unconstitutional citing cruel and unusual punishment.  Now our prisons are lowlife playgrounds.  The problem with capital punishment is it takes too long to carry out and is not a deterrent.  Do you care about what happens to you 15 to 20 years from now?  You might be dead by then.  Prisoners don't care either.
> 
> What we need to do is fast track capital punishment for offenders that are convicted with empirical evidence such as video recordings and or DNA. No more 20 years of appeals.  I'd even go one step further by making all executions public, perhaps on a pay-per-view channel.  All proceeds would go to the families of the victims.
> 
> Issa, I think we are going to make a Republican out of you yet.


Fast Capital punishment works asks saudi arabia.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 5, 2022)

FJB said:


> I don't have to time to read through this entire thread as it's way too long, but what would happen if we started blaming drunk driving on alcohol and vehicles and house fires on houses in general? Pretty soon we're not going to have anything left if we start taking away every little thing that could be even remotely dangerous.



The only thing that is remotely dangerous are humans themselves.  The left can't come to terms with this so they attack inanimate objects as a solution. 

You can disarm a human but the hate stays with the person, another thing the left can't seem to grasp.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 5, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> What's a wrong nonsensic view to this problem. A short time after your first school-massacres we had them here in Germany. That's like a kind of natural law; Whatever happens in the USA will happen also a short time later in Germany. We tried to solve this problem in many ways - but not by selling to adolsecent 18 years old children during a brain reconstruction phase machine guns and to hurt war weapon control laws.


The first school shooting in the US occurred hundreds of years before Germany was even a country in colonial Massachusetts.

More nonsensical gibberish, 18yo's cannot legally purchase machine guns in the US.

The AR-15 is a demi auto rifle, not a machine gun and no country on earth issues them to their armed forces.

Guns are not responsible for mass murders, the worst school massacre in US history wasn't even a shooting.









						Bath school disaster | Description & Facts
					

Bath school disaster,  pair of bombings on May 18, 1927, of Bath Consolidated School in Bath Township, Michigan, U.S., that killed 38 schoolchildren. The perpetrator, Andrew Kehoe, also killed five adults in addition to himself in the worst school massacre in American history. Kehoe spent months...



					www.britannica.com
				




An entire generation of children simply ceased to exit and it took more than 6 decades for the town to recover.

Until you learn the basic facts of the subject you should probably learn to shut up and proving yourself a fool to all.

Access to firearms hasn't changed in the last six decades in the US but the rate of mass shootings has increased steadily.

That's a cultural problem, Ghetto Culture" specifically not a gun problem.

There are over 400,000 guns in circulation legally in the US and probably another 100 million being traded among the criminal class.

We also have in excess of 130,000,000 law abiding gun owners who will never commit a crime with a gun much less mass murder.

Banning guns, magazines etc will never deter criminals hell bent on destruction, they will only pushing the law abiding and probably lead to a real armed insurrection in the US.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 5, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The only thing that is remotely dangerous are humans themselves.  The left can't come to terms with this so they attack inanimate objects as a solution.
> 
> You can disarm a human but the hate stays with the person, another thing the left can't seem to grasp.


"Gun Control" is nothing but a misnomer for "People Control".  Disarm the public and the gov't can do whatever they want.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 5, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> The USA is a union of more and less shithole countries calling everyone else in the world shithole country while the own weapon fetishism takes care that adolescent US-citizens  have the freedom, ability and possibility to mass-murder children of citizens of the USA. You call this _"striving for happiness - inspiring others to live as murderous as possible"._


Without this collection of shithole countries saving your asses in two world wars German would be a dead language and all of Western Europe would now be made up of Soviet Republics.


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## Big Bend Texas (Jun 5, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> What you say here is a hate message - and not critics. By the way: Did anyone notice the nonsense you said in 1985 - 37 years in the past? Nevertheless you have to suffer the problems which are made since the 1970ies in the USA and which became from year to year more worse. Weapon trades are in the center of this problems - as far as I can see.


Not surprising, nobody can see very far with their head shoved up their own ass ear deep.


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## Big Bend Texas (Jun 5, 2022)

Flash said:


> View attachment 653865


True then just like it's true today, just like it will be true for every tomorrow into the future.

Legal restrictions on guns don't stop criminals, they just make it ever harder for the law abiding to resist criminals and out of control gov'ts trying to strip them of their most basic rights.


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## NotfooledbyW (Jun 5, 2022)

flacaltenn said:


> Nobody's gonna take the time reviewing EVERY NICS app for "social media" history



Who made you spokesman for everybody?

The schools aren’t the problem - the SA does not absurdly bestow a specific unlimited right to a first time young gun buyer just turning 18, to endanger the public with an assault rifles and thousands of rounds of ammo like buying an ice cream cone at the county fair.

The state of Texas Republican NRA jumping beans knows damn well that an 18 year old would be a danger to the public if the same kid who can easily buy an AR15 to mass shoot grade schoolers has the right to buy a handgun for mass shooting grade schoolers as well. 

There is a distinct line drawn by Republican gun cult leadership in Tx.  So they know..

Texas protects its school kids from being mass murdered by young men with handguns but refuses to protect its little kids from being mass murdered by young men using the mass murderer’s weapon of choice - the assault rifle because mass murder looks much cooler while making an assault for the livestream. And Republican Mr Daniels gets to willy nilly sell more guns.  He must be sued.

Either the 18 19 20 year old has an inalienable right,  we must ask every single Republican, to mass murder school kids under the SA or they don’t with a legally purchased handgun. 

I say they don’t. So it is not infringement on a tight to expect fany 18 year who wants to own a his own firearm lawfully as an upstanding protector of his personal sejf and property and community like Big Bend Texas is as a whole person, is required to fill out an application starting at 18 to show the entire community that by the time he is 21 the parents of the dead kids in Uvalde can have little ease of mind ttat other parents won’t suffer the horror that Republicans intentionally bestow upon them.  

We also should see a law that anyone who aids snd abets anyone to obtain an illegal firearm used in a mass shooting can be convicted and sentenced to death by firing squad. And 20 years for anyone who didn’t secure the firearm in the places


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## zaangalewa (Jun 5, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> The first school shooting in the US occurred hundreds of years before Germany was even a country in colonial Massachusetts. ...



What for heavens sake do try now not to speak about?


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## Big Bend Texas (Jun 5, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> The schools aren’t the problem - the SA does not absurdly bestow a specific unlimited right to a first time young gun buyer just turning 18, to endanger the public with an assault rifles and thousands of rounds of ammo like buying an ice cream cone at the county fair.


Simply owning an RR doesn't put anyone in danger.  Stop passing off bullshit and lies as fact.

Whether you have 10, rounds, 1,000 rounds, or a million rounds of ammo is nobody's business and you can only practically carry so much at any given time.

For the US soldiers that's between 210-300 rounds.  Any more than that and your ability to move and maneuver decreases rapidly.

Like it or not to attain and maintain proficiency with any firearm requires regular practice and putting lots of rounds down range.


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## Big Bend Texas (Jun 5, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> What for heavens sake do try now not to speak about?


More nonsensical gibberish on your part.  The first school massacre was in colonial Massachusetts circa 1650.


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## NotfooledbyW (Jun 5, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The only thing that is remotely dangerous are humans themselves. The left can't come to terms with this so they attack inanimate objects as a solution.



Half of Dems own firearms and see no reason to not have them. Most Dems who have no use for a gun in the home agree with their fellow Dems, it’s stupid to threaten to confiscate all guns from law abiding gun owners.


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## Big Bend Texas (Jun 5, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Half of Dems own firearms and see no reason to not have them. Most Dems who have no use for a gun in the home agree with their fellow Dems, it’s stupid to threaten to confiscate all guns from law abiding gun owners.


They won't be honest enough to state that confiscation of all firearms is their goal.

They will certainly make sure that the people who provide their armed security have access to guns while the rest of us are made unarmed victims in waiting.


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## zaangalewa (Jun 5, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Without this collection of shithole countries saving your asses in two world wars German would be a dead language and all of Western Europe would now be made up of Soviet Republics.



You forget everything what someone says to you immediatelly after you never read it, isn't it? Or whyelse do you not remember that I said to you that the only reason I'm able to imagine why the USA took part in world war 1 against Germany and their mulit-national allies had been "you" liked to wipe out the German language in the USA - what you nearly perfectly did do. Only the Amish survived.

Germans by the way never forced anyone to have to speak German. The Germanic Anglo-Saxons for example speak English and the Frankonians speak French. The Germans in Switzerland never forced the Italians and French speaking Swiss to have to speak German. The same in Austria-Hungari where no one was forced to speak German but everyone was able to use the own language as a citizen of the multi-national k&k monarchy. All other nations - including Poland - are not doing so and nearly no one respects the right of Germans to use the German language only because their ancestors live since centuries or even milleniums where they live.


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## Big Bend Texas (Jun 5, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> You forget everything what someone says to you immediatelly after you never read it, isn't it? Or whyelse do you not remember that I said to you that the onyl reason I'm able to imagine why the USA took part in world war 1 against Germany and their mulit-national allies had been "you" liked to wipe out the German lanaguge in the USA - what you nearly perfectly did do. Only the Amish survived. Germans by the way never forced anyone to have to speak German. The Germanic Ango-Saxons for example speak English and the Frankonians speak French. The Germans in Switzerland never forced the Italians and French speaking Swiss to have to speak German. The same in Austria-Hungari where no one was forced to speak German but everyone was able to use the own language as a citizen of the multi-national k&k monarchy.


You really are an idiot.

Without the US convincing the allies in WWI to seek a negotiated end to the war instead of the complete defeat of Germany, Germany would have ceased to exist.

Without the US entering the wars in Africa and Europe Stalin would have ground Germany into dust and would not have stopped until he controlled all of Europe.

As a result, German would be a dead language.

German isn't now nor has it ever been eradicated in the US and nobody was forced to learn English instead of German.

English became our national language simply because it was the language common to all at the Constitutional Convention and the primary language of both gov't and business in the US.

You are a clueless boob.


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## zaangalewa (Jun 5, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> More nonsensical gibberish on your part.  The first school massacre was in colonial Massachusetts circa 1650. ...


What a nonsense. The USA did not exist in this time of history. When was the second?


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## NotfooledbyW (Jun 5, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Simply owning an RR doesn't put anyone in danger.


False. I see what you avoid discussing to satisfy my conclusion that you are not an honest and rational human being willing to live in a multicultural free society. You are a product of the small town gun utopia in which you live.  Nothing you have filled your head and arsenal with there can be applied to the real world out here where 21 Kids snd tescherd are dead because Republicans and Independents like you refuse to protect them. Your arguments are nothing more than “everything I say is so because I say it is so and I live in a gun utopia that’s why:” 

Uvalde is no gun utopia. it’s a gun hell right now.


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## Big Bend Texas (Jun 5, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> False. I see what you avoid discussing to satisfy my conclusion that you are not an honest and rational human being willing to live in a multicultural free society.


Nothing false about it ion any way.  My mere ownership of an AR or AK endangers nobody that doesn't first use or threaten unlawful deadly force against me or a third party.

I grew up in the desert Southwest you moron where multiculturalism is all around us every day.

On any given day, on any public range in the country you will find people of all races, creeds, and colors, enjoying the shooting sports.  That includes ranges that allow rifles and namely AR and AK platform rifles.

You are a raving moron.


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## zaangalewa (Jun 5, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> You really are an idiot.



I know.



Big Bend Texas said:


> Without the US convincing the allies in WWI to seek a negotiated end to the war instead of the complete defeat of Germany, Germany would have ceased to exist. ...



You are totally mad. Russia, England, France and their allies had lost World War 1 without the USA. And your KKK nonsense might be one of the most important sources of the Nazis. Hitler said he had learned to be a liar from the US-American presidents.


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## zaangalewa (Jun 5, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> ... The AR-15 is a demi auto rifle, not a machine gun and no country on earth issues them to their armed forces. ...



I call such weapons machine guns or war weapons. Anything else is a stupid discussion. Such weapons are constructed to murder human beings in battle fields and not on any other reason like hunting or sports. Weapons which are constructed for fast mass-murder should not be in private hands. No one and nothing is able to bring such a situaon under control and the risks are immense. The whole USA is able to destroy itselve.


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## Big Bend Texas (Jun 5, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> I know.
> 
> 
> 
> You are totally mad. Russia, England, France and their allies had lost World War 1 without the USA. And your KKK nonsense might be one of the most important sources of the Nazis. Hitler said he had learned to be a liar from the US-American presidents.


There's no factual evidence to support such a claim.  All our entry did was expedite the end because we refused to fight a trench war in favor of maneuver warfare.

Absent our entry into the war Germany would have eventually been slowly ground into dust.

That would also have taken at least 2-4 more years with millions more casualties, mostly on the German side.

Until Wilson got involved the Allies were not willing to even consider a negotiated end to the war.


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## Big Bend Texas (Jun 5, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> I call such weapons machine guns or war weapons. Anything else is a stupid discussion. Such weapons are constructed to murder human beings in battle fields and not on any other reason like hunting or sports. Weapons which are constructed for fast mass-murder should not be in private hands.


Stupid is calling a semi auto a Machinegun.  You just continue showing your own ignorance.

No firearm every sold in the US is made to kill anyone period, just another ridiculous lie on your part.

They are called, "The modern sporting rifle" because they are far and away the most popular of all rifle platforms available in the US used for sporting purposes.

You are free to stop proving yourself to be a complete fool at any time but nobody is going to stand in the way of you continuing to prove it.


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## zaangalewa (Jun 5, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> ... English became our national language simply because it was the language common to all at the Constitutional Convention and the primary language of both gov't and business in the US. ...



Still a short time before World War 1 theatres from Germany gave shows in the USA. Also in dialects and not only in standard German - and the critics had been written very qualified in the USA in German. By the way: The US-Americans of this time of history have about 3 descendents today - the Germans of this time of history have today 1/3 descendent. You are indeed the worst "nigthmare" Germany ever had in history - on not any reason which had to do with Germany on its own. You caused and cause our outdying just for fun.


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## Big Bend Texas (Jun 5, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Still a short time before World War 1 theaters from Germany gave shows in the USA. Also in dialects and not only in standard German - and the critics had been written very qualified in the USA in German.


Could that possibly be due to all the German Immigrants in the US at the time?

German was never banned nor even shunned in the US, it just wasn't our national language.

Not only is English our national language, the language of both business and gov't here in the US it's the most widely spoken language in the world.


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## zaangalewa (Jun 5, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Stupid is calling a semi auto a Machinegun.   ....



*Again:*
I call such weapons machine guns or war weapons. Anything else is a stupid discussion. Such weapons are constructed to murder human beings in battle fields and not on any other reason like hunting or sports. Weapons which are constructed for fast mass-murder should not be in private hands. No one and nothing is able to bring such a situation under control and the risks are immense. The whole USA is able to destroy itselve.


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## Big Bend Texas (Jun 5, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> *Again:*
> I call such weapons machine guns or war weapons. Anything else is a stupid discussion. Such weapons are constructed to murder human beings in battle fields and not on any other reason like hunting or sports. Weapons which are constructed for fast mass-murder should not be in private hands. No one and nothing is able to bring such a situation under control and the risks are immense. The whole USA is able to destroy itselve.


You continue lying and making a fool of yourself.  No military in the world issues a semi auto AR or AK platform rifle.

No firearm is designed or manufactured for the purpose of it's being used to commit murder period, not in the US anyhow.

Last week a woman stopped what would have become a mass shooting perpetrated by a guy with an AR, she stopped him with a 9mm Handgun.

In the case of virtually every mass shooting ever where any AK or AR platform rifle has been used the shooters were stopped as soon or at most within minutes of them first being met with a deadly force response.

Stop lying and stop talking out of your ass.


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## zaangalewa (Jun 5, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> ... German was never banned nor even shunned in the US ...



Read your own history books.


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## zaangalewa (Jun 5, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> You continue lying and making a fool of yourself.  No military in the world issues a semi auto AR or AK platform rifle.
> 
> No firearm is designed or manufactured for the purpose of it's being used to commit murder period, not in the US anyhow.
> 
> ...



*And again:*
I call such weapons machine guns or war weapons. Anything else is a stupid discussion. Such weapons are constructed to murder human beings in battle fields and not on any other reason like hunting or sports. Weapons which are constructed for fast mass-murder should not be in private hands. No one and nothing is able to bring such a situation under control and the risks are immense. The whole USA is able to destroy itselve.


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## Big Bend Texas (Jun 5, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> *And again:*
> I call such weapons machine guns or war weapons. Anything else is a stupid discussion. Such weapons are constructed to murder human beings in battle fields and not on any other reason like hunting or sports. Weapons which are constructed for fast mass-murder should not be in private hands. No one and nothing is able to bring such a situation under control and the risks are immense. The whole USA is able to destroy itselve.


You continue fabricating bullshit and lying out of both ends like a geyser. 

Be definition they are neither machine guns nor "weapons of war", nor are they manufactured with the intent that they will be used to kill anyone.

The end user always decides how a firearm will be used.


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## zaangalewa (Jun 5, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> ... Last week a woman stopped what would have become a mass shooting perpetrated by a guy with an AR, she stopped him with a 9mm Handgun. ...



Avoidable heroism.


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## zaangalewa (Jun 5, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> You continue fabricating bullshit and lying out of both ends like a geyser.
> 
> Be definition ...



Definitions are totally uninteresting for me. I told you very exactly what I think.

*This is what I think:*
I call such weapons machine guns or war weapons. Anything else is a stupid discussion. Such weapons are constructed to murder human beings in battle fields and not on any other reason like hunting or sports. Weapons which are constructed for fast mass-murder should not be in private hands. No one and nothing is able to bring such a situation under control and the risks are immense. The whole USA is able to destroy itselve.


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## Big Bend Texas (Jun 5, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Avoidable heroism.


Disproving your claim above that they cannot be stopped.

She saved countless lives by simply being armed and then willing and able to step up when the shooting broke out.

That is an act of true heroism.


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## Big Bend Texas (Jun 5, 2022)

zaangalewa said:


> Definitions are totally unintertsing for me. I told you very exactly what I think.
> 
> *This is what I think:*
> I call such weapons machine guns or war weapons. Anything else is a stupid discussion. Such weapons are constructed to murder human beings in battle fields and not on any other reason like hunting or sports. Weapons which are constructed for fast mass-murder should not be in private hands. No one and nothing is able to bring such a situation under control and the risks are immense. The whole USA is able to destroy itselve.


What you "think" is a long list of irrelevant lies.

You don't get to fabricate your own reality.


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## zaangalewa (Jun 5, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Disproving your claim above that they cannot be stopped.
> 
> She saved countless lives by simply being armed and then willing and able to step up when the shooting broke out.
> 
> That is an act of true heroism.



And? Did she hate it to have to be a hero? I guess "yes" - specially if she had German and/or Jewish ancestors.


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## zaangalewa (Jun 5, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> What you "think" is a long list of irrelevant lies.
> 
> You don't get to fabricate your own reality.



Language lesson:

stupid = blöde
to make oneselve not to be stupid = entblöden

So: Why do you not "entblöden" yourselve?
The other way is to have to learn from the reality all around - what you are also not doing.


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## Flash (Jun 5, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Who made you spokesman for everybody?
> 
> The schools aren’t the problem - the SA does not absurdly bestow a specific unlimited right to a first time young gun buyer just turning 18, to endanger the public with an assault rifles and thousands of rounds of ammo like buying an ice cream cone at the county fair.
> 
> ...


18 year old Negro gang bangers , druggies and street thugs commit gun crimes in these Democrat controlled big city shitholes with strict gun control laws every day and you Moon Bats don't give a shit.  Any new law isn't going to change the enormous crime that goes on.

Stop pretending you give a shit because you don't.


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## NotfooledbyW (Jun 5, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> I grew up in the desert Southwest you moron where multiculturalism is all around us every day.



I live in the most multicultural community and area of the country and we don’t need guns all over the place to get along with each other.

growing up where you did does not mean you are in favor of it on a national levelZ

 white Americans are a shrinking majority.  Lots of white Americans are arming up solely fior that reason

Is the Democratic Party more or less favorable to placing a high value on a multicultural America than Republicans are.


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## NotfooledbyW (Jun 5, 2022)

Flash said:


> 18 year old Negro gang bangers


You certainly have a generalized fixation on black Americans who are criminals. still pissed that Abe Freed them? What’s with the American treason flag?


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## Flash (Jun 5, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> You certainly have a generalized fixation on black Americans who are criminals. still pissed that Abe Freed them? What’s with the American treason flag?


They are the ones that commit most of the gun crimes in the US.  You Liberals always ignore that fact because the Negroes are the main voting block of the filthy Democrat Party.


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## flacaltenn (Jun 5, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Who made you spokesman for everybody?
> 
> The schools aren’t the problem - the SA does not absurdly bestow a specific unlimited right to a first time young gun buyer just turning 18, to endanger the public with an assault rifles and thousands of rounds of ammo like buying an ice cream cone at the county fair.



I know a bit about the personnel and equipment NEEDED to do MASSIVE reviews on 100s of thousands of citizens' social media accounts.  Probably you dont.  Its NOT RIGHT liberty and constitution wise because depending on the INTEGRITY of the agency DOING it -- it could become just another way to harass certain groups. Because by the time they REVIEW your social media going back 5 or 10 years -- they're GONNA see some stuff they could HANG you with.  Like being not a progressive or a conservative or just because YOU had too many Let's Go Brandon or Orange Man memes.. 

And when the POWER goes out of Democrat hands -- it's YOUR ass and liberties on the line. You must have dozens of pics of the Orange man having sex with Putin. 

 WE KNOW that NSA Super Spy system was hijacked by the fucking FBI and misused.  Most smart people aren't TRUST these tools in hands of raving partisans EVER AGAIN !!!! 

And it's not practical.  Only goes back MAYBE 5 years right now for the Big tech tyrants.  NSA's World's Greatest Domestic Spying Machine only got turned about 2010 or so. 

I ENDORSE raising the legal age on long guns with clips/mags to 21.  Dont assume I'm not THINKING about fixing problems.  The schools definitely ARE a LOT of the problem.  When they SHIELD students with discipline problems, and dont report to authorities, you gonna miss the very kids that HAVE ALREADY COMMITTED these crimes.

Parkland -- kid was disciplined over 20 times.  Suspended. Transfered to other schools including "mental cases" school.  NEVER REPORTED TO AUTHORITIES. 

Buffalo Grocery -- *Kid THREATENED to SHOOT-UP a school. * Got a 36 psych hold and released with NO RECORD and NO reporting to authorities.  Came to school after Covid and his shooting threat -- *dressed in head to toe HAZMAT outfit.  Crazy as a loon and sharp enough to OBTAIN a full hazmat suit.* *NYORK HAS A RED FLAG LAW AND NO ONE USED IT !!!!!!* Dont ya wanna know WHY? 

It's also problematic and probably UNCONSTITUTIONAL to "red flag" minors without parental consent. Which is a GOOD thing. 

I could give you at least SIX MORE where the schools REFUSED to refer the kid shooters to authorities.  FIX THIS FIRST before you treat law abiding citizens as criminals and start prying and spying on the rest of us who simply want to buy/trade a gun.


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## NotfooledbyW (Jun 6, 2022)

flacaltenn said:


> It's big. Part of what gets revealed is how that GPS tracking in GEORGIA connects those mules to Stacy Abrahms offices after she boasted about having "400,000" ballots "IN HER HANDS".





flacaltenn said:


> I know a bit about


But I know that you are a master of disinformation propagation. You are great at packaging hooey about imaginary election fraud and the right of gun buyers to purchase a “style” of a firearm being a higher rate than a school kids most essential right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It’s too much trouble for the kind of gun grasping owner you are to be bothered with Helping normal gun owners like my sister finding ways to save the lives of 10 year olds in America. 

Your excuse making favorable to the national white right obsession that results in a lot of bullet riddled bloodied bodies young and old black and white Is impressive, I’ll give you that.


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## M14 Shooter (Jun 6, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I live in the most multicultural community and area of the country and we don’t need guns all over the place to get along with each other.


Well then -- we clearly do not need more gun control laws.
Glad we resolved -that- issue.


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## NotfooledbyW (Jun 6, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Well then -- we clearly do not need more gun control laws.


We need more indictments for seditious conspiracy against gun freaks like the Proud Boys who were served today including their former POTUS leader and members of Congress and fake electors


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## 2aguy (Jun 6, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> They make false arguments all the time.  Our statistics show that people of color commit the most crime per capita, sometimes four times their population size depending on the type of crime.  Take people of color out of the mix and our country compares to other white and single culture countries even with all our guns.
> 
> The larger the population, the more mentally disturbed people any country will have.  Here we don't lock up people who might commit a crime, we lock up people after they commit a crime.



Norway and France beat us for the worst mass shootings…over 70 murdered in one attack…137 in the attack in France….

Keep in mind, the Muslim terrorists in France had fully automatic military rifles….they are illegal across the entire continent, illegal in France and illegal in Paris…..their gun control laws didn’t stop the attack


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## Ray From Cleveland (Jun 6, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Norway and France beat us for the worst mass shootings…over 70 murdered in one attack…137 in the attack in France….
> 
> Keep in mind, the Muslim terrorists in France had fully automatic military rifles….they are illegal across the entire continent, illegal in France and illegal in Paris…..their gun control laws didn’t stop the attack



It's like I've said so many times:  Take a white middle-class suburb and make a law that every household must have a firearm, and their violent crime statistics will not change.  At the same time, make a law that nobody is allowed to be in possession of a firearm in a crime filled minority community, and their violent crime rate will not change either. 

It's proof positive the problem are the types of people and not the guns.  The people in the suburb that were made to buy a firearm had no reason or inclination to kill, while the people in the ghetto restricted from guns will find a way to get them. 

The liberal solution to slow down or stop school shootings is to disarm the law abiding public.  The Republican solution is to secure schools better including having an armed officer on duty at all times.


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## NotfooledbyW (Jun 7, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It's proof positive the problem who are the types of people and not the guns.



You can say there is a race of people are the problem, Ray



Ray From Cleveland said:


> crime filled minority



pretty much saying whites are superior to blacks there Ray

do you think the Buffalo supermarket shooter is superior to the “types” of people he mass murdered


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## M14 Shooter (Jun 7, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> We need more indictments for seditious conspiracy against gun freaks like the Proud Boys who were served today including their former POTUS leader and members of Congress and fake electors


Good of you to agree we do not need any more gun laws.


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## NotfooledbyW (Jun 7, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Good of you to agree we do not need any more gun laws.


I don’t agree with that at all. Law-abiding gun owners turn into mass murderers as soon as they can get their hands on an AR 15.  As soon as you can guarantee there will never be another mass murder in America I don’t agree we don’t need any more laws. Are we there yet. Try to get control of your own.


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## M14 Shooter (Jun 7, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> I don’t agree with that at all.


You live in the most multicultural community and area of the country and you - personally and collectively - don’t need guns all over the place to get along with each other.   
This being the case, there is clearly no need for any additional gun control laws. 


NotfooledbyW said:


> Law-abiding gun owners turn into mass murderers as soon as they can get their hands on an AR 15.


This is a lie.


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## NotfooledbyW (Jun 7, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> You live in the most multicultural community and area of the country and you - personally and collectively - don’t need guns all over the place to get along with each other.


Yes we do. The problem is the right wing gun scum in cahoots with the NRA and deadly weapons manufacturers in our country want to arm everybody 8 to 80 to the teeth so they say we don’t have to worry about one of them flipping out and shooting up school or supermarket or movie theater because they want everybody to own guns so more crazy people have easy access to guns making it necessary for more guns to be everywhere     In our faces. No thanks gun scum. You are wrong and a threat to peaceful existence.


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## M14 Shooter (Jun 7, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Yes we do.


This being the case, there is clearly no need for any additional gun control laws.


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## NotfooledbyW (Jun 7, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> there is clearly no need for any additional gun control laws.


Half a million guns a year end up in the wrong hands via lawful gun owners. If you can’t control yourselves we need more gun laws not less.


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## M14 Shooter (Jun 7, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Half a million guns a year end up in the wrong hands...


You said live in the most multicultural community and area of the country and you - personally and collectively - don’t need guns all over the place to get along with each other.   
Apparently, as you do not need firearms for protection, these "half a million guns"  that "end up in the wrong hands" don't affect you - and so, there's no need for additional gun control laws.


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## 2aguy (Jun 7, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Half a million guns a year end up in the wrong hands via lawful gun owners. If you can’t control yourselves we need more gun laws not less.




And when we catch the people who stole those guns, the democrat party prosecutors release them to steal more guns...

This isn't a law abiding gun owner issue...it is a democrat party issue.


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## Flash (Jun 7, 2022)

Biden blames guns?

Biden is a jackass that never got anything right in his life.

Anybody that voted for him is an idiot.


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## 2aguy (Jun 7, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Half a million guns a year end up in the wrong hands via lawful gun owners. If you can’t control yourselves we need more gun laws not less.




this is why we have gun crime.....the democrat party...

*Favors Career Criminals

The press release outlines how Krasner’s office, following Krasner’s policy guidance, allowed Elliott to roam the streets and kill O’Connor, and includes disturbing facts such as:
*

*Krasner’s office gave Elliott a sweetheart deal on a gun charge.*
*Elliott violated his parole on the gun charge by being arrested for possession of cocaine.*
*Krasner’s office took no action on Elliott’s parole violation.*
*Krasner’s office, following Krasner’s lax bail policies, allowed Elliott to be released on his own recognizance despite his 2018 firearms conviction.*
*Elliott then murdered Tyree Tyrone after he violated his parole while out on bail.*
*Krasner’s office withdrew the cocaine charges against Elliott, after the Tyrone murder, despite the fact that Elliott failed to appear for his court appearance on the cocaine charges.*
*Krasner’s office failed to detain Elliott, allowing him to prey on more victims, and ultimately to gun down O’Connor.*
*As the press release from the federal prosecutor bluntly puts it, Elliott was “a gang banger wanted for murder,” yet Krasner’s office “did nothing.”

And that is just one of thousands of cases per year where Krasner’s office, following Krasner’s orders, does nothing instead of faithfully enforcing the law as written.

Non-Prosecution Policies

Immediately after he was elected and sworn into office, Krasner fired 31 career prosecutors in the office, many of whom were in the homicide division and highly experienced. Krasner didn’t do the firing himself; he had one of his top lieutenants do the dirty work, and that person told the career prosecutors they had hours to clear out their desks.

Since deputy district attorneys in the Philadelphia DA’s office serve at will, and don’t enjoy civil service protection, Krasner’s move was legal, but extraordinary.

Like many newly elected rogue prosecutors, Krasner also issued a non-prosecution policy memo to attorneys in his office soon after he was elected. 

The Krasner memo required his assistant district attorneys to radically change the way they approach their job, including the following orders:
*

*Decline to charge four categories of crimes.*
*Charge lower gradations of crimes (to make sure no bail is required).*
*Divert more cases, including drug distribution.*
*Make plea offers that are at the bottom of the state’s guidelines.*
*Inform the judge at sentencing proceedings about the financial cost to the state for each year of incarceration.*
*Request shorter probation and parole periods.*
*Request no more than six months for a technical parole violation (no matter how much “back up time” the offender has).*
*Request no more than two years for a regular parole violation (regardless of back up time available).*
*Charge no parole violation for a positive marijuana test or if the parolee is caught with marijuana.*
*These are exactly the type of radical changes to a prosecutor’s office you would expect if you put a dyed-in-the-wool criminal defense attorney, beholden to Soros and his ilk, in charge of a district attorney’s office*









						Meet Larry Krasner, the Rogue Prosecutor Wreaking Havoc in Philadelphia
					

This commentary is part of a series on the rogue prosecutors around the country who have been backed by liberal billionaires such as George Soros and Cari Tuna, and the threat those prosecutors pose to victims and others alike. “F— the FOP [the Fraternal Order of Police]” and “No good cops in a...




					www.heritage.org


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## 2aguy (Jun 7, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Half a million guns a year end up in the wrong hands via lawful gun owners. If you can’t control yourselves we need more gun laws not less.




Why we have gun crime....the democrat party prosecutors who believe violent criminals are the actual victims.....

*This year, though, we’ve jumped the shark. We’re on pace for over 600 murders—the most ever. An Inquirer story last week laid out some even more disturbing findings. Since Krasner took office, the number of gun crime arrests has nearly tripled, but the conviction rate for gun crimes has plunged from 63 percent in 2017 to 49 percent in 2019. In January, I reported that, under Krasner, homicides have jumped a whopping 58 percent; just 21 percent of shootings since 2015 led to criminal charges, and less than one-tenth of those resulted in convictions.
-----

The DA’s own data dashboard shows that, every year of his tenure, Krasner’s office has dismissed or withdrawn more violent cases and gun cases than the year before. In fact, the average annual number of such cases that were dismissed or withdrawn has increased by 85 percent during Krasner’s tenure, compared with the four years before he took office. All of this despite the fact that the police are making more gun arrests than at any time since 2015.*









						Larry Krasner is losing the battle against homicide. Will voters even care?
					

With the primary election looming and body bags piling up at an alarming rate, can District Attorney Larry Krasner skirt accountability?




					thephiladelphiacitizen.org


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## NotfooledbyW (Jun 7, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Why we have gun crime..


Yes, exactly, law-abiding gun owners are so damn careless that half 1 million criminals get their hands on their guns every year. Maybe you should focus on the trying to make law-abiding gun owners more responsible for everybody’s safety.


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## NotfooledbyW (Jun 7, 2022)

2aguy said:


> And when we catch the people who stole those guns,


Why in the hell do you allow them to steal your guns in the first place? That is the issue you’re godawful careless reckless people with deadly firearms.


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## 2aguy (Jun 7, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Yes, exactly, law-abiding gun owners are so damn careless that half 1 million criminals get their hands on their guns every year. Maybe you should focus on the trying to make law-abiding gun owners more responsible for everybody’s safety.



They are…. Idiots like you force law abiding gun owners to lock their guns in their cars to go into stores and other places…instead of keeping them with them.

Then, democrats lower the penalties for gun criminals , which encourages them to keep stealing guns.

The democrats release criminals captured with stolen guns….

It isnt normal gun owners that are the problem….it is idiots like you who refuse to go after actual criminals and who instead focus on normal gun owners who don’t use their guns for crime


You are the problem


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## 2aguy (Jun 7, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Yes, exactly, law-abiding gun owners are so damn careless that half 1 million criminals get their hands on their guns every year. Maybe you should focus on the trying to make law-abiding gun owners more responsible for everybody’s safety.



No….we should lock up criminals who steal guns for 20 years


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## NotfooledbyW (Jun 7, 2022)

2aguy said:


> No….we should lock up criminals who steal guns for 20 years


How do they steal half a million guns every year from responsible lawful gun owners?


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## 2aguy (Jun 8, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> How do they steal half a million guns every year from responsible lawful gun owners?




They break into their cars because idiots like you force normal gun owners to leave their guns in their cars when they go into gun free zones.......

They use their sisters, baby mommas and mothers who were in state governments where you have to register guns and then target those homes for robberies....

Also, the straw buyers for criminals report guns stolen when they were actually sold to criminals......

The goal should be locking up gun thieves, not attacking the victims of these thieves....


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## M14 Shooter (Jun 8, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Why in the hell do you allow them to steal your guns in the first place?


-Allow- someone to steal something?
How does that make sense?
Do you always blame the victim?


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## 2aguy (Jun 8, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> -Allow- someone to steal something?
> How does that make sense?
> Do you always blame the victim?




Yes...yes they do.....and then they call the criminals the actual victims.


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## NotfooledbyW (Jun 8, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> -Allow- someone to steal something?


Carelessness appears to be a huge problem for “Responsible“ law-abiding gun owners


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## M14 Shooter (Jun 8, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Carelessness appears to be a huge problem for “Responsible“ law-abiding gun owners


How does  this translato to 'allowing" guns to be stolen?


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## NotfooledbyW (Jun 8, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> How does this translato to 'allowing" guns to be stolen?



By being careless like your hero Travis McMichael was, when he left his gun in an unlocked truck overnight to be stolen. 

IF it was locked in a safe or under his pillow at night it would not have been ‘allowed’ to be stolen.


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## M14 Shooter (Jun 8, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> By being careless like your hero Travis McMichael was, when he left his gun in an unlocked truck overnight to be stolen.


This isn't an example of allowing someone to steal a gun.
Try again.


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## Captain Caveman (Jun 8, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> This isn't an example of allowing someone to steal a gun.
> Try again.


If you don't lock a gun in a gun cabinet, you're giving someone the chance to steal it, bellend. Plus, if you don't use a secure cabinet, you're fucking unfit to have a gun. It's the unfit gun owners that cause the problem, that includes you, solid bone from the neck up.


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## NotfooledbyW (Jun 8, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> This isn't an example of allowing someone to steal a gun.



Sure it is when the following duty is breached due to careless and negligence and failure to store and maintain your firearm safely you are allowing a criminal to easily obtain a firearm.

What is Gun Owner Negligence?​Generally, gun owners have a basic duty to care for and store guns safely, and to avoid any reasonably foreseeable dangers


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## M14 Shooter (Jun 8, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Sure it is when the following duty....


You cannot "allow" someone to steal something - if you "allow" it, it's not stealing.


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## NotfooledbyW (Jun 8, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> This isn't an example of allowing someone to steal a gun.





M14 Shooter said:


> You cannot "allow" someone to steal something - if you "allow" it, it's not stealing.



Bullshit! If I  go into to the store and leave my $5000 bicycle unlocked out front and I come out and it’s gone, I very stupidly and  negligently allowed it to be stolen.

But I doubt very much that it’s very likely that my bicycle would be used to mass murder 19 school kids.

Don’t you gun scum always say if anybody’s gonna take your gun they’ll have to pry it out of your cold dead fingers. So why do you “allow” criminals to grab them And live to talk about it?


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## M14 Shooter (Jun 8, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> Bullshit!


I'm sorry you don't like the truth.
But, the truth it remains.


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## miketx (Jun 8, 2022)

White 6 said:


> For weapons such as these, I would:
> 1.  Raise minimum age to buy, own or possess (unless renting on a controlled, supervised, regulated range) to 25.
> 2.  Thorough background checks, similar to NSA level background checks.
> 3.  Nobody, ever gets to have one on the street.
> ...


Communists would relish that. How about getting leftist trash to just stop releasing violent criminals? Or start enforcing existing laws? Or stop plea bargaining violent scum?


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## miketx (Jun 8, 2022)

NotfooledbyW said:


> But I doubt very much that it’s very likely that my bicycle would be used to mass murder 19 school kids.


How can you be sure? The bike may have a gun, right?


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## Captain Caveman (Jun 8, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> You cannot "allow" someone to steal something - if you "allow" it, it's not stealing.


And if you lock the gun in a cabinet, then take it out to shoot vermin in your back yard, go to a pheasant or clay shoot, go to a gun range, and then place it back in your cabinet, guess what? You're still enjoying guns and no one has taken them off you, that includes all your enemies that you keep saying that will invade your home.

If you need to go into town and strut around with a loaded gun, then you would be a bellend and compensating for what's missing in your pants. That type of person, along with criminals, is the most undesirable person to own a gun, give it to a sensible person.


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## White 6 (Jun 8, 2022)

miketx said:


> Communists would relish that. How about getting leftist trash to just stop releasing violent criminals? Or start enforcing existing laws? Or stop plea bargaining violent scum?


I favor long sentences to keep the violent assholes off the streets, also.  But, it is mostly not the recidivist violent career felons that are shooting up the schools.  Looks like it might be tending toward teenagers too dumb to know right from wrong, and unable to control their hormones.


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## miketx (Jun 8, 2022)

White 6 said:


> I favor long sentences to keep the violent assholes off the streets, also.  But, it is mostly not the recidivist violent career felons that are shooting up the schools.  Looks like it might be tending toward teenagers too dumb to know right from wrong, and unable to control their hormones.


If so, no doubt caused by all the grooming leftist scum confusing them about their gender and being faggots and all. Plus, filthy scum releasing violent criminals.


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