# Saudi woman gets 150 lashes for driving



## Sally (Apr 27, 2014)

Can anyone imagine a woman being lashed in the civilized world like this?  What is the big deal about women driving?  They drive all around the world, and the authorities don't stop them unless they have committed a traffic infraction.,.

Saudi woman gets 150 lashes for driving
April 26, 2014, 9:08 am

EPAA Saudi woman has reportedly been sentenced to 150 lashes and eight months in jail for driving.

A woman in Saudi Arabia has been sentenced this week to 150 lashes and eight months in jail for driving and striking police officers who arrested her, news websites in the kingdom have reported.

Continue reading at:

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/world/a/22975467/saudi-woman-gets-150-lashes-for-driving/


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## Votto (Apr 27, 2014)

Sally said:


> Can anyone imagine a woman being lashed in the civilized world like this?  What is the big deal about women driving?  They drive all around the world, and the authorities don't stop them unless they have committed a traffic infraction.,.
> 
> Saudi woman gets 150 lashes for driving
> April 26, 2014, 9:08 am
> ...



These are just extremist radical Muslims in an extremist radical country.

This has no bearing on Islam in any way.

Next.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 27, 2014)

True   ..


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## dilloduck (Apr 27, 2014)

How anti semitic of you.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 27, 2014)

If every woman would get behind the wheel and drive that would be the end of that law.  There aren't enough police officers out there to stop them.  What is the population of Saudi Arabia?   The female population?  Pick a day, a time and drive.


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## Sally (Apr 27, 2014)

Votto said:


> Sally said:
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> > Can anyone imagine a woman being lashed in the civilized world like this?  What is the big deal about women driving?  They drive all around the world, and the authorities don't stop them unless they have committed a traffic infraction.,.
> ...



I realize that, but aren't they the keepers of the two most holiest sites in Islam and are the  leaders of the Sunni world, leading the way for many Muslims of that sect?  You would think that they would by now they would wake up that women should have certain rights without being punished.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 27, 2014)

Votto said:


> Sally said:
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> > Can anyone imagine a woman being lashed in the civilized world like this?  What is the big deal about women driving?  They drive all around the world, and the authorities don't stop them unless they have committed a traffic infraction.,.
> ...



Of course not!  We're all waiting with bated breath for that ticket to Saudi Arabia!  lol... Don't kid yourself.  The worst representative of Islam?   IS ISLAM.  In my opinion.  

- Jeremiah


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## Tank (Apr 27, 2014)

Votto said:


> This has no bearing on Islam in any way.


Not in anyway


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## Sally (Apr 27, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Votto said:
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Have you noticed, though, that the Dhimwits have not bothered to post here about the blood running down the roads in the Muslim Middle East countries when innocent Muslims and Christians are being killed by other Muslims?  Evidently they felt it more important to post under a "driving" thread and not under a "murder of innocent people" thread.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 27, 2014)

Sally said:


> A woman in Saudi Arabia has been sentenced this week to 150 lashes and eight months in jail for driving *and striking police officers who arrested her,* news websites in the kingdom have reported.


Typical that the Islam haters gloss over the part where it says the woman was arrested for striking the Police officers.

There has been plenty of incidents on video in the American news where a woman who has been pulled over by Police is beaten with a night stick and Tazered for resisting arrest.

But lets focus on a country thousands of miles away.......cause after all they are muslims.   ..    

[ame=http://youtu.be/6tFARijra8I]Soccer mom tazered by police during traffic stop - YouTube[/ame]


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 27, 2014)

Sally said:


> Votto said:
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The very idea that a religion has the right to physically punish another human being is revolting to me.  It is the antithesis of all G-d represents.  G-d is about free will.   All the way, it is our choice, our free will. No man, no man!  ...has the right to judge another human and hand down any sentence or punishment.  It is the height of audacity!  If she wants to drive get out of her way!


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## percysunshine (Apr 27, 2014)

Was she on her cell phone?

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## Tank (Apr 27, 2014)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7RT3ctbhAo]burka car - YouTube[/ame]


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## Sunni Man (Apr 27, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> The very idea that a religion has the right to physically punish another human being is revolting to me.  It is the antithesis of all G-d represents.  *G-d is about free will.   All the way, it is our choice, our free will. No man, no man!  ...has the right to judge another human and hand down any sentence or punishment.*  It is the height of audacity!


Really??  so if a criminal murders one of your family members......it's all A-OK  ???    ...


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 27, 2014)

Sally said:


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Yes, Sally, it as if there are blinders on.  I feel very badly for these Muslim women.  This is no way for them to be treated.  They have no rights!  Where the heck is NOW when you need them?  Womens lib?  The silence is deafening!!   

 Don't the Muslim women count too?  Yes!  They do!   The reason people do not want to speak up for these women, Sally, is because they do not understand this is what their life would be like if they were living under Sharia law.  They just don't make the connection that this is about alot more than driving.  This is about death penalties - beatings - getting hung from a crane, stoned, slavery in the 21st century.    Talk about a time warp.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 27, 2014)

Tank said:


> Votto said:
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> > This has no bearing on Islam in any way.
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I agree.   It doesn't change Islam in the slightest.


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## Truthseeker420 (Apr 27, 2014)

> It appeared that the particularly harsh sentence was handed down because of the* charges of resisting arrest and attacking police officers,* according to various reports.
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> https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/world/a/22975467/saudi-woman-gets-150-lashes-for-driving/



Lashes are barbaric but so is getting tased shot and killed.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 27, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Yes, Sally, it as if there are blinders on.  I feel very badly for these Muslim women.  This is no way for them to be treated.  They have no rights!  Where the heck is NOW when you need them?  Womens lib?  The silence is deafening!!



Jeremiah, you should financially sponsor a group of NOW lesbians and radical feminists to go to Saudi Arabia and straighten that place out.   ..


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## Againsheila (Apr 27, 2014)

Votto said:


> Sally said:
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> > Can anyone imagine a woman being lashed in the civilized world like this?  What is the big deal about women driving?  They drive all around the world, and the authorities don't stop them unless they have committed a traffic infraction.,.
> ...



But there seem to be a lot of extremist radical Muslims in extremist radical countries.  How can we not be concerned?


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## Againsheila (Apr 27, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
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> > Yes, Sally, it as if there are blinders on.  I feel very badly for these Muslim women.  This is no way for them to be treated.  They have no rights!  Where the heck is NOW when you need them?  Womens lib?  The silence is deafening!!
> ...



I think we should have taken in jets when we had our military there and offered free flights and sanctuary in the USA to every woman there.  The Muslims would sure change fast when there wasn't enough women to go around.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 27, 2014)

Againsheila said:


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Oh I like the way you think!  You've got my vote!


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## Sunni Man (Apr 27, 2014)

LOL.......most of the people here all worked up about this issue don't even know any Saudi women or talked to them about it.

The Saudi women I know are very offended that "busy body know it all" American women are all up in their business.

Truth is......most Saudi women have a personal chauffeur...... and don't want to drive car.   ..


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## percysunshine (Apr 27, 2014)

Maybe the cops were graduates of Brandeis University.


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## Againsheila (Apr 27, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> LOL.......most of the people here all worked up about this issue don't even know any Saudi women or talked to them about it.
> 
> The Saudi women I know are very offended that "busy body know it all" American women are all up in their business.
> 
> Truth is......most Saudi women have a personal chauffeur...... and don't want to drive car.   ..



Not what I read when the Saudi women were protesting not being able to drive and pointed out that even before cars women were allowed to ride and herd camels.


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## Truthseeker420 (Apr 27, 2014)

Againsheila said:


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Like we can afford to fight another World War after Dumbya and Israel bankrupted the U.S.


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## Againsheila (Apr 27, 2014)

Truthseeker420 said:


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Yeah, but at least this would be something worth fighting about, instead of oil.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 27, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> Sunni Man said:
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> > LOL.......most of the people here all worked up about this issue don't even know any Saudi women or talked to them about it.
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The number of Saudi women making a fuss about driving is less than 4 or 5

But the western press makes a big deal about it and gullible Americans eat it up.   ..


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 27, 2014)

What is heartwarming about the OP is that although this Saudi woman has no one amongst her willing to speak up for her?   Thousands of miles away - on another continent  - a Jewish woman writes on her behalf and asks for justice on a message board called USMB.    A few concerned Americans join her and the rest?   The rest should join in the effort.  

I hope this story goes out far and wide.  For her sake.


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## Againsheila (Apr 27, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


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It was 60, and considering the punishment, are you surprised it's so few?

Dozens of Saudi Arabian women drive cars on day of protest against ban | World news | theguardian.com


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## Sunni Man (Apr 27, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> What is heartwarming about this story is that although this Saudi woman has no one amongst her willing to speak up for her?   Thousands of miles away - on another continent  - a Jewish woman writes on her behalf and asks for justice on a message board called USMB.


LOL.......a juden is all up in arms because a woman in a country she has never visited isn't allow to drive a car.

That's classic........


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## Sunni Man (Apr 27, 2014)

Againsheila said:


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Their country......their laws......their culture.

Why should it concern you??    ...


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## Roudy (Apr 27, 2014)

Votto said:


> Sally said:
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> > Can anyone imagine a woman being lashed in the civilized world like this?  What is the big deal about women driving?  They drive all around the world, and the authorities don't stop them unless they have committed a traffic infraction.,.
> ...


Saudi Arabia is the Cradle of Islam.  They host Islam's two holiest sites, Mecca and Medina, which millions of Muslims flock to every year.   What they say and do has a direct effect in Islam and Muslim thinking around the world.  Will what the Vatican say and do have an affect on Christianity?  DUFUS.


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## Againsheila (Apr 27, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


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Because I'm a Christian and I am my brother's keeper.  Or in this case, my sister's keeper.  The fact that you are a Muslim and it doesn't concern you is very telling.


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## Roudy (Apr 27, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


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This barbarism should concern every human being.  The worlds greatest atrocities and genocides have occurred because people weren't willing to raise their voice. It was happening somewhere else, to other people they didn't know much about. 

Sunni of course is an advocate for this barbarism, he wants to see it happening here in America as well.


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## Synthaholic (Apr 27, 2014)

_*Saudi woman gets 150 lashes for driving*_


And Republicans and Right-Wingers continue to support the flow of enormous wealth from the United States to these Middle East regimes by not getting behind alternative energy.

Pathetic.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 27, 2014)

Againsheila said:


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What's with the American mindset that thinks it's our duty to tell everyone else what to do, and how to do it?

Yet if people from another country did the same thing to us.

American's would go ballistic and want to fight.    ..


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## Againsheila (Apr 27, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


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Do you really believe this woman deserves 150 lashes?   Do you think the world wouldn't be up in arms if we did the same thing?


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 27, 2014)

Dozens of Saudi Arabian women drive cars on day of protest against ban | World news | theguardian.com[/QUOTE]

This is so cute.  This is a small clip from a comment one woman driver made........


I just took a small loop. I didn't drive for a long way, but it was fine. I went to the grocery store," she said.

Her husband and family waited at home and called her when she arrived at the shop to check on her, she said. She drove with a local female television reporter in the car. They were both without male relatives in the vehicle.

"I know of several women who drove earlier today. We will post videos later," one of the campaign organisers told Reuters.

The Associated Press reported that a security official said authorities did not arrest or fine any female drivers on Saturday.
__________________________

Her first trip to the grocery store without a male companion.  This is a big day for this woman.  I would love to take one of these women on a back country road and teach them to drive fast!   Do some fish tails and doughnuts on a dirt road and just cut loose!  I think they'd have the time of their life!


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## Sunni Man (Apr 27, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Sunni of course is an advocate for this barbarism, he wants to see it happening here in America as well.


Yea, not letting women drive is really barbaric.   ..


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## Roudy (Apr 27, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> LOL.......most of the people here all worked up about this issue don't even know any Saudi women or talked to them about it.
> 
> The Saudi women I know are very offended that "busy body know it all" American women are all up in their business.
> 
> Truth is......most Saudi women have a personal chauffeur...... and don't want to drive car.   ..


Bullshit. Maybe 1% of the population is doing well enough to afford a chauffeur.


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## Roudy (Apr 27, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Roudy said:
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No but lashing women for driving is. Having a hard time keeping up?


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## rightwinger (Apr 27, 2014)

I've seen women drivers I'd like to give 150 lashes


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 27, 2014)

Synthaholic said:


> _*Saudi woman gets 150 lashes for driving*_
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> And Republicans and Right-Wingers continue to support the flow of enormous wealth from the United States to these Middle East regimes by not getting behind alternative energy.
> ...



Not me, Synthaholic!  I am for alternative energy all the way!  Bring it!


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 27, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> I've seen women drivers I'd like to give 150 lashes



Stop driving so slow.


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## percysunshine (Apr 27, 2014)

Synthaholic said:


> _*Saudi woman gets 150 lashes for driving*_
> 
> 
> And Republicans and Right-Wingers continue to support the flow of enormous wealth from the United States to these Middle East regimes by not getting behind alternative energy.
> ...



Now that is about the best avatar you have ever used. Awesome.

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## Sunni Man (Apr 27, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> Do you really believe this woman deserves 150 lashes?   Do you think the world wouldn't be up in arms if we did the same thing?


Read the article.......she assaulted a policeman.

In the U.S she would have been beaten and tazered right on the scene.    ..


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## Sunni Man (Apr 27, 2014)

[ame=http://youtu.be/6tFARijra8I]Soccer mom tazered by police during traffic stop - YouTube[/ame]


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## rightwinger (Apr 27, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> rightwinger said:
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Doing 40 in the fast lane should be good for 150 lashes


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## Againsheila (Apr 27, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Againsheila said:
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> > Do you really believe this woman deserves 150 lashes?   Do you think the world wouldn't be up in arms if we did the same thing?
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You do know 150 lashes are going to kill her, right?


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## Roudy (Apr 27, 2014)

Synthaholic said:


> _*Saudi woman gets 150 lashes for driving*_
> 
> 
> And Republicans and Right-Wingers continue to support the flow of enormous wealth from the United States to these Middle East regimes by not getting behind alternative energy.
> ...


You mean you missed the clip where your Hussein Obama messiah of the Democrats bowed down and kissed the Saudi Kings hand, like he's some fucking subject or serf?  

This is not a Democrat or Republican issue.  But I have to say, for Democrats to "claim" to be such advocates for women's rights domestically but internationally they seem to be blind deaf and dumb, has to be the ultimate of hypocrisy.


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## Roudy (Apr 27, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Soccer mom tazered by police during traffic stop - YouTube


Irrelevant.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 27, 2014)

Againsheila said:


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Naw.......they will be easier on a woman..    ..


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## Mr Natural (Apr 27, 2014)

And once again, religion rears it's ugly head.


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## KissMy (Apr 27, 2014)

Shes lucky to live in Saudi Arabia. Here in the USA fascist police state she could have been killed for hitting police & resisting arrest.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 27, 2014)

Mr Clean said:


> And once again, religion rears it's ugly head.


Actually, the Saudi ban on women driving has zero to do with Islam or religion.

There is nothing in the Quran that would forbid women from driving a car.

It's a tradition/cultural ban in Saudi Arabia.

There are over 50 other muslim countries and women are allowed to drive in all of them.   ..


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## percysunshine (Apr 27, 2014)

Mr Clean said:


> And once again, religion rears it's ugly head.



She was contributing to Global Warming?

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## Sunni Man (Apr 27, 2014)

[ame=http://youtu.be/yJU3GhyF4e4]New Mexico State Police Traffic Stop Shooting At Van With Kids Dash Cam [FULL LENGTH] - YouTube[/ame]


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 27, 2014)

KissMy said:


> Shes lucky to live in Saudi Arabia. Here in the USA fascist police state she could have been killed for hitting police & resisting arrest.



There is no evidence she resisted arrest other than the word of Saudi Muslim police according to the news story.  She would need 4 witnesses to contest their version of what happened in court ( because she's a woman )  and the news media in Saudi Arabia will report it as they are told to report it.  They have no freedom of press in Saudi Arabia.


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## Againsheila (Apr 27, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> KissMy said:
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> > Shes lucky to live in Saudi Arabia. Here in the USA fascist police state she could have been killed for hitting police & resisting arrest.
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Yeah, we don't have that here anymore either.


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## Sally (Apr 27, 2014)

KissMy said:


> Shes lucky to live in Saudi Arabia. Here in the USA fascist police state she could have been killed for hitting police & resisting arrest.



Isn't that strange that a new item came out the other year about Saudi women wanting to seek refugee away from Saudi America.  No doubt they found out that they would be treated better here in America.  Say, you can go to Saudi Arabia and take the place of one of these women who wants to come here.  That could probably be arranged.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 27, 2014)

Mr Clean said:


> And once again, religion rears it's ugly head.



The religion of Islam.  Yes.


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## percysunshine (Apr 27, 2014)

A court passed sentence after conviction is not the same thing as an arrest procedure.

Jurisprudence is a difficult subject for some people.

Heck, a person can get a law degree and become President without understanding it.

.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 27, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Synthaholic said:
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I have found quite a few Democrat women on here who have spoken out against anti semitism and the islamic doctrines on culling homosexuals from human race, etc.   They are speaking out in greater numbers these days..  I'm proud of them.  It would be nice if the womens organizations which are known for speaking up for women would do the same for Muslim women.   If there are 2 billion Muslims perhaps half are women.   If half are women that is 1 billion women living without the rights the rest of us enjoy and take for granted each and every day.  That should bother every woman on the planet!

There should be more advocates for gay Muslims too.   What is geographical location when you have news of gay men tossed into deep pits, doused with gasoline and set on fire in Saudi Arabia?    Because they are gay??!    These are the serious issues facing western civilization and the longer we sit silently wondering what to do the more emboldened radicalized Islam is becoming.  Do not be afraid to use your voice to speak up.  What good did it do those on the plane that crashed the twin towers to remain silent?   

Use your voice and make it count.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 27, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> There is no evidence she resisted arrest other than the word of Saudi Muslim police according to the news story.


Isn't that the same way it works here in America?

A policeman's word is enough to arrest you in any state. 

And his word is usually sufficient for you to be convicted in court.

Truth......


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## Roudy (Apr 27, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


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What's with the Muslim mindset that they think any barbarity, as long as it's in the name of Islam or Mohamad is acceptable.


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## Roudy (Apr 27, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


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Islam, where brain cells go to die.


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## Roudy (Apr 27, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


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She was stopped because she was driving as a woman and of course resisted being arrested for such barbarism.


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## Katzndogz (Apr 27, 2014)

150 lashes is not survivable.  It is a palatable way of saying she will be lashed to death.


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## Roudy (Apr 27, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> 150 lashes is not survivable.  It is a palatable way of saying she will be lashed to death.


Sunni: "their country, their laws...Allah Akbar!"


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 27, 2014)

Just say no to Sharia Law in America.  Insist your State enforce American Laws for American Courtrooms.  Call your Congressman and check tomorrow. Find out if your state has ALAC or not.  If it doesn't?  Get it through.

This isn't about driving.  This is about Sharia law.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 27, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Just say no to Sharia Law in America.  Insist your State enforce American Laws for American Courtrooms.  Call your Congressman and check tomorrow. Find out if your state has ALAC or not.  If it doesn't?  Get it through.
> 
> This isn't about driving.  This is about Sharia law.


Once again for the mentally impaired,........there is nothing in Islam or Sharia law that forbids a woman from driving. 

It is a Saudi Arabian tribal/cultural law that has nothing to do with the Islamic religion.

There are over 50 muslim countries in the world and women are allowed to drive in all of them.    ..


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## Roudy (Apr 27, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
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> > Just say no to Sharia Law in America.  Insist your State enforce American Laws for American Courtrooms.  Call your Congressman and check tomorrow. Find out if your state has ALAC or not.  If it doesn't?  Get it through.
> ...


Idiot, there were no cars when Shariah law was created.  Shariah law basically treats women as slaves to the men, with hardly any rights.  Not allowing women  to drive is just an extension of this barbaric chauvinistic mentality.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 27, 2014)

And??   ..


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## Roudy (Apr 27, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> And??   ..


Sunni: "their country, their savagery, their barbaric religion, their chauvinistic ideology of being violent and abusive towards women..." Ha ha ha ha.

Islam,where brain cells go to die.

True story


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## Againsheila (Apr 27, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Sunni Man said:
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Considering that Sunni claims not to be a "fanatical" Muslim,  but does claim to be "Muslim" and cares nothing for this poor woman's plight, that tells me all I need to know about "Islam."


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## Roudy (Apr 28, 2014)

Againsheila said:


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Sunni symbolizes typical Islamist mindset and the problem with Islam in the world today.


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## Lipush (Apr 28, 2014)

That's.....sad


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## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

Roudy symbolizes typical Zionist mindset and the problem with Israel in the world today.   ..


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## Roudy (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Roudy symbolizes typical Zionist mindset and the problem with Israel in the world today.   ..


Of course you as an Islamist Neanderthal would find that Israelis and people like me who are for women's rights a "problem".  That's like telling slave owners that you are against slavery.  You guys are basically against everything modern civilization, democracy, and freedom stand for.

Islam, where brain cells go to die.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 28, 2014)

Roudy said:


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Thank you, Roudy, for explaining the problem with the 150 lashes.  This is Sharia Law.  This is what Islamists want to enforce here - the Saudis fund 80% of the Wahabist Mosques in the United States and 100% of the Islamic Learning Centers at our Universities - fully funded by the Sauds including the instructors they provide & Pay salaries to.  (for the express agenda of teaching a pseudo Islam that does not exist and promoting hatred against the Jews & Israel ) 

So exactly what type Sharia law do the people envision taking hold in the USA?    Wahabist!  Of course!  Where does that leave us?   With the same future driving laws and 150 lashes punishment for women in Saudi Arabia... that's where...  ( from 2014 on all cars must have black box - Obamacare will restrict driving to those with vision of a pilot - etc - its in obamacare bill according to doctors attending seminars for it - Muslims are exempt from Obamacare) 

While CAIR virulently opposes ALAC ( American Law for American Courtrooms ) we are assured that the Islamic Society of North America and their president Imam Majid that they are seeking unity through dialogue of interfaithism and have no desire to impose Sharia Law over Americans. 

  If this be true then why is their own brethren - CAIR saying something different and why the big fear of ALAC if they have no intentions of Sharia Law being established here in the United States?!

  Why is Imam Majid - a muslim with early roots to Muslim Brotherhood the president of ISNA and why was ISNA listed in the HLF Trials as one of the 108 co- conspirators according to HLF trial documents? Still un- indicted since 2009 when Holder stepped in at DOJ?    See where this one is going?     They don't like being confronted with these questions because it exposes the truth of what is going on here.   

This story is a wake up call for America.  You can thank G-d for people like Sally who post these articles.  Today?  Saudi women.  Tomorrow?  America's women.  Don't let it get that far.  Support ALAC.  Call your Governors office, Congressmen, Senators, put the heat on before 2014 elections.   Make it count.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 28, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy symbolizes typical Zionist mindset and the problem with Israel in the world today.   ..
> ...



I would say anyone who is intolerant of a society because of its freedom to choose its own belief system, moral decisions, marital status, clothing preferences, swimming preferences, sexual preferences,  etc is not fit for society.  Especially if the plan is to remove certain people or act as a judge, a law over the lives of others.   That should never be permitted to happen in a society.  Ever!  

 I am a christian but I have absolutely no problem with my neighbor being gay and if they'd like some vegetables from the garden - they are most welcome.  I wouldn't treat them any differently than I would anyone else.  My neighbor does not have to become a believer in order for me to accept them, love them, or be kind to them.  It costs me nothing to be kind to people.   G-d is a lover. Not a hater.  
Hating is not of G-d.  Control is not of G-d.  Paying people to convert is not of G-d.  

If love could be bought it would be utterly despised.  Solomon said so.  

You cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear.  - J.


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

Creeping sharia.........is still creeping up on you.    ..


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 28, 2014)

Let me make clear to you, Roudy, I am not speaking of intolerant by way of freedom of speech but by way of violence, force, intimidation, lawsuits, death threats, that sort of thing.    That can never be accepted as a normal way of communication.  We don't do it that way in America and we are never going to do it that way in America.  

The tide has turned on CAIR, MB & their ilk and the reason is simple.   The truth is out there now...


----------



## toastman (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Creeping sharia.........is still creeping up on you.    ..



In America?? Lol not even close.
Muslims make up 0.8% of the population. Good luck with that Sunni Troll.

Heck, even if they made up 20% or 40% of the population, it will never happen.

But hey, we're all allowed to dream


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Creeping sharia.........is still creeping up on you.    ..



In Jesus name, I bless you today.   - Jeremiah


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

The muslin birth rate and legal immigration is expected to boost the muslim population to 50 million by the end of this century.

Muslims will be a substantial demographic voting block........and Sharia Law will be a part of the American legal system.    ..


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 28, 2014)

toastman said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Creeping sharia.........is still creeping up on you.    ..
> ...



Actually the Islamist cells inside USA awaiting order to strike us won't happen until Russians invade.  The Russians are leading the invasion on USA just as they will be leading the much promised invasion of Israel with Iranians and others following.  ( Ezekiel 37 & 38) 

  But you are right, Toastman!  It will never happen!  Once the Chinese come in they will kill Muslims first as they and Russia have no intention of sharing land or people.  It isn't happening.  Who will know who killed who if we have a nuclear attack there would be no satellites or electric.  It is the Russians / Chinese word against who?   After that it is onto Europe!  Just like chess!  Kasparov must have given him these plays as Putin's IQ doesn't have room for such stategies.  

  Truth is Russia will most likely wipe out the Muslims once she takes Europe - which is not far off as she already has the monopoly on the natural gas.   That will make Putin the darling of Europe.  We already know about his ego!  How better to satisfy it?  In his own speeches he has made clear his intentions.  Like Obama he hides in plain sight.  

Stalin did say the Jews would have made a better ally!  Who does Putin want to be like?  Stalin.  Stay tuned for the turn in this road!  It's going to be a sharp one! Islamists will be the fall guy this go round.  ( some Cubans, Nicaraguans, Mexicans joining in don't like Islam at all - Russia knows it  - should be a bloodbath..  oy vey.)


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

....................................................^^ You are a total nut case   ..


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 28, 2014)

I had to lower my standards today in order to meet yours half way.  Call it a sacrifice.


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> I had to lower my standards today in order to meet yours half way.  Call it a sacrifice.


........................^^ More of that Christian love on display.  

WWJD   ..


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> The muslin birth rate and legal immigration is expected to boost the muslim population to 50 million by the end of this century.
> 
> Muslims will be a substantial demographic voting block........and Sharia Law will be a part of the American legal system.    ..


Not while me and Sam Colt are pardners, Pardner.


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Creeping sharia.........is still creeping up on you.    ..


Not to worry. We got Weed-Be-Gone.


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > The muslin birth rate and legal immigration is expected to boost the muslim population to 50 million by the end of this century.
> ...


I thought you believed in Democracy and the electorial process?  

Isn't it up to the voters to decide if they want Sharia Law?

So why are you talking about violence?    ..


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 28, 2014)

Why do you equate weed be gone and Sam Colt with violence but not the word "culling", Sunni?  One was referencing a law while the culling word was used in association with homosexuals.   Where was the democracy & electoral process in your culling of homosexuals from human race statement? You didn't mention it.     Your response?


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Why do you equate weed be gone and Sam Colt with violence but not the word "culling", Sunni?  One was referencing a law while the culling word was used in association with homosexuals.   Your response?


Try to pay attention.

I didn't respond to the Weed-Be-Gone post.   ..


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 28, 2014)

I edited and revised.  Have a look.  Then respond to the question please.  thank you.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 28, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Why do you equate weed be gone and Sam Colt with violence but not the word "culling", Sunni?  One was referencing a law while the culling word was used in association with homosexuals.   Where was the democracy & electoral process in your culling of homosexuals from human race statement? You didn't mention it.     Your response?



Revised.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 28, 2014)

You must not be getting the point here.  Let me try again. 

Hossfly said he would defend America and his Sam Colt from Sharia Law - not people - a LAW.  

This is not a statement of violence at all.

  Whereas I question your comment about homosexuals being culled from human race.  It does sound violent to me.  That is my opinion.  I am entitled to it.   Just as you are entitled to believe that Hossfly fighting Sharia Law is an act of violence.  

Keeping it real.  - Jeri


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Why do you equate weed be gone and Sam Colt with violence but not the word "culling", Sunni?  One was referencing a law while the culling word was used in association with homosexuals.   Where was the democracy & electoral process in your culling of homosexuals from human race statement? You didn't mention it.     Your response?


Sam Colt made a pistol that he is famous for......and thus implies violence.


Culling is a word that refers to separation for the good of the group.

I am not advocating violence to sodomites.

I am hoping that in the future a homo mental health law will be voted in or passed. And homos will be culled from society and locked up in psychiatric hospitals so that they can receive treatment for their illness.

It's really is the most humane thing to do for them.    ..


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...


If it ever gets to the point that the voters can opt for Sharia law then I would opt for the Samson Option. But it will never happen as the world knows evil and will finally stamp it out. That's not violence, but simple preventive maintenance. You Muslims have violence in your blood, Ishmael..


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...


Yep, Sam Colt was famous for his baby all right, The *Peacemaker.*


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> You must not be getting the point here.  Let me try again.
> 
> Hossfly said he would defend America and his Sam Colt from Sharia Law - not people - a LAW.
> 
> This is not a statement of violence at all.


Curious??  how do you shoot a Law??   ..


----------



## Roudy (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...


More of that Muslim medieval mentality.  

WWMD. What Would Mohammad Do? Do and say exactly what savages like Sunni and his brethren are doing.  Keep it up.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



First Sam Colt is a pistol that he is famous for and it only implies violence against Sharia Law as Hossfly made clear "Sharia Law" - he never once mentioned people only in your  head which I am trying to get straighted out here, Sunni.  

You and I do not agree on the subject of homosexuals, Sunni, because I don't believe homosexuals are any more prone to mental illness than you or I. 

  We will agree to disagree but I still find the word culling offensive.  Homosexuals are not cattle.   They are people.  

 The nazis were known for using cattle cars to transfer Jews to death camps.  They used mental health laws to lock people up and sterilize them so they could not have children, they did experiments on them, horrific things happened.  

 Do you really want to see a legal system that executes homosexuals or locks them in mental health wards prevail?

 What kind of freedom is that?  That is not American style freedom.  We won't allow it.


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> You and I do not agree on the subject of homosexuals, Sunni, because I don't believe homosexuals are any more prone to mental illness than you or I.


I though you were a Bible believing Christian?

Both the OT and the NT expressly are opposed to sodomites and sodomy.   ..   

.


----------



## Roudy (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > You and I do not agree on the subject of homosexuals, Sunni, because I don't believe homosexuals are any more prone to mental illness than you or I.
> ...


Personally I think Islamists like Sunni should be locked up for mental illness.  Or perhaps deported.


----------



## aris2chat (Apr 28, 2014)

Saudi women launch legal fight against driving ban - Telegraph

Saudi women are "burning their bras" so to speak by forcing this issue about claiming their rights.  Time for Saudi to step into the 21st C.


----------



## proudveteran06 (Apr 28, 2014)

percysunshine said:


> Was she on her cell phone?
> 
> .



Lol ! 

Apparently the Muslim " forgot" this is the ME Board yet we are supposed to post about what happens in the U.S when people are stopped? Does the Muslim or anyone else know why she was stopped ? A better question; Why was she resisting arrest? He is comparing this to a woman being lashed in the Arab World because its against the law  ? They also have to sit in the back seat . Just a few more examples of a " modern" uncivilized Country.


----------



## proudveteran06 (Apr 28, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



Consider the source . He was born into a Uncivilized Savage Religion and will die that way,


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

proudveteran06 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...


Incorrect Poindexter.

I am an American who converted to Islam.

And yes, I will die as a muslim.   ..


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



You know, somehow, that makes it worse.  You chose to be this.  You chose not to care about women.  You CHOSE to believe that women are somehow less then men?!?  Yeah, that makes it much worse.


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > proudveteran06 said:
> ...


I care very much about women......I have a wife, daughters, a sister, and many female relatives.

But men and women have different roles in life.....and both need to know their place.....it's the natural order of the world.

I see fail to see anything wrong with that.   ..


----------



## Sally (Apr 28, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



Perhaps there are Muslims who have facilities for those who have mental illnesses.  Saudi Arabia has rehab for terrorists so maybe moderate Muslim groups here in the U.S. have something like that for those who are Islamists.  It could be that they give them computers to while away their time; and perhaps they think these patients being exposed to many different things on the Internet showing people happy getting along with those of different religions, the mentally ill patients will give up their strict Islamist thinking like hoping for the U.S. to be under Sharia Law.  If the patients get far enough along, they probably get a pass to visit the outside world instead of being locked up seven days a week.

'Ex-terrorists' in Saudi Arabia find peace through rehab | Public Radio International


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

..............................................^^ LOL....poor deluded Silly-Sally doesn't have a clue.   ..


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



You've already made yourself clear in your lack of compassion for this woman who's going to be whipped to death.  Apparently, you'd be okay with it also if it's your wife or daughter.  I would hate to be related to you.


----------



## proudveteran06 (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



We know you will die as believing in a " religion"    that promotes terrorism, killing, treating women as second class citizens, persecution of  Christians and Hindus and slavery just to name a few.


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> You've already made yourself clear in your lack of compassion for this woman who's going to be whipped to death.


Don't be over dramatic.    ..    

She didn't get a death sentence.......just a lashing........she will survive.


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > You've already made yourself clear in your lack of compassion for this woman who's going to be whipped to death.
> ...



150 lashes, you have got to be kidding.


----------



## Mr Natural (Apr 28, 2014)

How many lashes would a man have gotten for driving a car?


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 28, 2014)

Mr Clean said:


> How many lashes would a man have gotten for driving a car?



None, in Saudi Arabia men can drive, women can't, legally.  It's crazy.  Even crazier is that Sunni accepts and supports this practice.


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

The woman is getting the lashes for assaulting the policeman.......not for driving.

A woman driving is not a lashable offense.

Re-read the article.   ..


----------



## HenryBHough (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> The woman is getting the lashes for assaulting the policeman.......not for driving.
> 
> A woman driving is not a lashable offense.
> 
> Re-read the article.   ..




I wondered who it was that approved of ANY punishment by lashing!  Are you big on stonings, too?


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> I wondered who it was that approved of ANY punishment by lashing!  Are you big on stonings, too?


Stoning is just another method of execution.

Here in the U.S. we currently use lethal injection....... but until recently we used hanging, gas, electric chair, and firing squad, to execute convicted criminals.   .


----------



## HenryBHough (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> HenryBHough said:
> 
> 
> > I wondered who it was that approved of ANY punishment by lashing!  Are you big on stonings, too?
> ...




Deflecting won't help.

Since we've established you like lashings (for others, of course) are you also a supporter of execution by stoning?  Of course why be a barbarian if you can't be a total barbarian so we might guess....but it would be nice were you to be clear about it.


----------



## Mr Natural (Apr 28, 2014)

Sick, twisted society and culture.


----------



## HenryBHough (Apr 28, 2014)

Mr Clean said:


> Sick, twisted society and culture.



Which they wanna make OURS!


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > HenryBHough said:
> ...


I remember a few years back when an American teenager vandalized some cars in Singapore.

He was sentenced to be caned and received several lashes.

I remember many Americans saying they wished we had caning here in the U.S.

Many countries have various methods of punishment for convicted criminals that we don't employ in America.

It doesn't make them bad or wrong......just different.    ..


----------



## proudveteran06 (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> HenryBHough said:
> 
> 
> > I wondered who it was that approved of ANY punishment by lashing!  Are you big on stonings, too?
> ...



Another lie . In the US we use Capital Punishment to execute those who deliberately kill others: We do not use it on " Convicted Criminals" who might be convicted for lots of reasons . Too bad he can't discern the difference.


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

proudveteran06 said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > HenryBHough said:
> ...


Really?? .....the Rosenbergs might differ with you.

We have executed numerous people in the U.S. for both treason and spying.

And during WWII for cowardness in battle.    ..


----------



## toastman (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Troll actually expects people to believe what he says 

Here's what he posted today in the Holocaust Memorial thread:

At most there were 100 to 200 thousand juden killed by the Nazis.

The 6 million myth is a figure dreamed up by the Zionists in oder to extort sympathy money from gullible western nations. ...


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > You must not be getting the point here.  Let me try again.
> ...



You don't.  

Which is why you should have read Hossfly's comment more carefully before you responded.   Next time?   Read the whole post.  - Jeri


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

I wish we had public stonings, lashings, and caning, here in America for criminals.

No doubt the crime rate would go way down.   ..


----------



## Mr Natural (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> I wish we had public stonings, lashings, and caning, here in America for criminals.
> 
> No doubt the crime rate would go way down.   ..



Yes, for criminals. Not for women driving cars.


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

Mr Clean said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > I wish we had public stonings, lashings, and caning, here in America for criminals.
> ...


I agree with that.......


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > You and I do not agree on the subject of homosexuals, Sunni, because I don't believe homosexuals are any more prone to mental illness than you or I.
> ...



I am a bible believing Christian.  Which is why I follow Christ's teaching not to judge homosexuals.  Those who do will be judged with the same measure they have judged others by.  Who am I to judge another mans servant?  Besides...  Mercy triumphs over judgment.


----------



## proudveteran06 (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



  You made a Generalization which proves you're a liar . In this Country Criminals who are in prison and do not commit murder do not receive the Death Penalty unlike the Barbaric Muslim Countries who execute because they don't practice " Islam".  Next time ; read what you previously posted before responding


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 28, 2014)

Mr Clean said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > I wish we had public stonings, lashings, and caning, here in America for criminals.
> ...



 Please don't encourage him.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 28, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > Sick, twisted society and culture.
> ...



bingo


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 28, 2014)

Mr Clean said:


> How many lashes would a man have gotten for driving a car?



zero


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> I wish we had public stonings, lashings, and caning, here in America for criminals.
> 
> No doubt the crime rate would go way down.   ..



Right.  I'm happy for any Muslim people who have made it here to America so that they can have a normal life and enjoy the same constitutional rights that I do.  

I'm opposed to any Muslims who have come here with the idea that they are going to turn America into an Islamic State - Americans living under Sharia law.  

We are not interested in the happenings in Saudi Arabia happening over here.  Our legal system is fine as it is and our death penalty by lethal injection is far more humane than stoning, lashing and caning people to death.  

If that is what you want why don't you move to Saudi Arabia, Sunni?


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 28, 2014)

Oh!  ....and we don't want to put our gay community in mental institutions either.  That will not work for our way of life here in America.  The land of the free and the home of the brave covers all of us.  Not some of us.  

If enough people protest the Saudi govt lashing this woman to death ---> on America's college campuses they could save her life. 
*****
  Just a heads up for the students reading.  Next time you hear the MSA complaining about Israel make sure and remind them of this story and confront them over their silence.  Thanks.  - Jeremiah


----------



## Sally (Apr 28, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> HenryBHough said:
> 
> 
> > Mr Clean said:
> ...



I realize that there are women who are abused all over the world by their husbands, but I certainly hope nothing like this ever comes to America.  I can cry for this young woman.  It certianly would have been better if she could have remained single than be married to this butcher. 

Man cuts wife?s legs in Sargodha | Pakistan Today


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > I wish we had public stonings, lashings, and caning, here in America for criminals.
> ...


America is always changing and in a state of flux.

That why we have Amendments to the Constitution.

American's from 100 years ago wouldn't be able to recognize the country as it is today.

And America will be totally different 100 years from now.


My goal is to help change America into what I think it should become.

Which is the legal right of every citizen.........even muslim citizens. 


So when I hear bozo's like you Jeremiah telling me that I should move to another country.

You remind me of the people who used to tell black people to go back to Africa.  .


----------



## bodecea (Apr 28, 2014)

Sally said:


> Can anyone imagine a woman being lashed in the civilized world like this?  What is the big deal about women driving?  They drive all around the world, and the authorities don't stop them unless they have committed a traffic infraction.,.
> 
> Saudi woman gets 150 lashes for driving
> April 26, 2014, 9:08 am
> ...


While I've been hearing about civil disobedience by women drivers in Saudi Arabia and the authorities not liking it one bit....I question this story simply because 150 lashes will kill you.


----------



## HenryBHough (Apr 28, 2014)

bodecea said:


> While I've been hearing about civil disobedience by women drivers in Saudi Arabia and the authorities not liking it one bit....I question this story simply because 150 lashes will kill you.



It might....but to a strong woman like yourself it surely would feel no worse than a flea bite!


----------



## Sally (Apr 28, 2014)

bodecea said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Can anyone imagine a woman being lashed in the civilized world like this?  What is the big deal about women driving?  They drive all around the world, and the authorities don't stop them unless they have committed a traffic infraction.,.
> ...



I don't qestion the story at all.  Wasn't there a story just recently where a woman was arrested for driving her sick father to the hospital?


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

Do tell  ...


----------



## HenryBHough (Apr 28, 2014)

New product for Islamic countries:

Dual-control automobile like used for driving schools in some places.  Complete set of dual controls.

Inflatable male-looking dummy in the ordinary driver's seat.  

Then when stopped by the religious police they question the dummy which is programmed to repeat:  "Allahu Akbar!" while the women remains apparently to remain silent as Muslim women are usually programmed.  Pretty soon the cop gives up in disgust as to harass one chanting "Allahu Akbar!" is to bring down the mullah's on one's head.  Once he (the cop) gives up the car drives away.....


----------



## aris2chat (Apr 28, 2014)

toastman said:


> Sunni Troll actually expects people to believe what he says
> 
> Here's what he posted today in the Holocaust Memorial thread:
> 
> ...



All the miles of filing cabinets the nazis had records of everyone and everything, almost.
There have been records released in the last few years of those put in the camps and those who died or were killed.  6 million is a low ball estimate.
It was not just jews, mentally ill, gays, gypsies, and catholics were killed as well.
It was the loss of two thirds of the jewish population.  It was a tragic loss.


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Troll actually expects people to believe what he says
> ...


Wrong thread........just saying.   ..


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



Wrong.  I never told you to move to another country.  I asked you if you like Sharia law why don't you move there?   I didn't tell you to move to another country.  Why do you lie, Sunni?  Don't you realize that when you lie and misquote others you lose credibility?


----------



## aris2chat (Apr 28, 2014)

bodecea said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Can anyone imagine a woman being lashed in the civilized world like this?  What is the big deal about women driving?  They drive all around the world, and the authorities don't stop them unless they have committed a traffic infraction.,.
> ...



Why do you have the wrong image for your screen name?







This a better avitar.  You can pick any with a google search.


----------



## Sally (Apr 28, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Troll actually expects people to believe what he says
> ...




Let the sociopath keep up with his nonsensical trolling while he is locked up in the mental institution with nothing else to do.  Meanwhile, here is a good story regarding a Nazi's son.  In fact the son of another Nazi is now a doctor in the IDF.

Nazi's Son Delivers Divine Message 70 Years Later - Israel News


----------



## Sally (Apr 28, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



Actually anyone who wants to have the American people live under Sharia Law should move to a country where Sharia Law is practiced.   This goes for that C.A.I.R. official who said that the Muslims were not here in America to follow the Constitution, but Sharia Law.


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Wrong.  I never told you to move to another country.  I asked you if you like Sharia law why don't you move there?   I didn't tell you to move to another country.  Why do you lie, Sunni?  Don't you realize that when you lie and misquote others you lose credibility?


LOL......don't lecture me about credibility........your credibility was gone a long time ago Jeremiah.

When you spewed Jesus out of one side of your mouth .......vomited hate out of the other.

Spreading hate mixed with the Gospel.   

I've seen your type many times........


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 28, 2014)

I highly doubt that.  I am quite unique.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 28, 2014)

Time for some Elton John... 

[ame=http://youtu.be/lFYBLwb3I84]Elton John - Can you feel the love tonight Live (Rare Video) - YouTube[/ame]




Wouldn't it be lovely if this woman could hear this song in her jail cell tonight?   Watch the movie maybe?  Poor lady getting bullied over a lil' drive.  How sad.


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

Sally said:


> Actually anyone who wants to have the American people live under Sharia Law should move to a country where Sharia Law is practiced.   This goes for that C.A.I.R. official who said that the Muslims were not here in America to follow the Constitution, but Sharia Law.


Why should we move?

America is falling apart at the seams.....and Sharia Law is it's only hope.    ..


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> HenryBHough said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



Yeah, 6 swipes with a cane...a lot different than 150 lashes with a whip.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 28, 2014)

Oy vey!


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 28, 2014)

I dedicate this song to all the Saudi women who have come out onto the highways in their cars!  G-d bless them!   Let these women drive!   Give them a CD of I can't drive 55 and turn them loose.  

 [ame=http://youtu.be/F-mjl63e0ms]Diana Ross - I'm Coming Out - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 28, 2014)

bodecea said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Can anyone imagine a woman being lashed in the civilized world like this?  What is the big deal about women driving?  They drive all around the world, and the authorities don't stop them unless they have committed a traffic infraction.,.
> ...




With the except of Sunni, everyone here has acknowledged that.

However, there is some hope:  "There has been no official confirmation of the verdict and the woman's name has not been published."

I hope the whole story is false.  It did accomplish one thing though, it opened my eyes to how depraved Sunni is, and if he is the typical Muslim, it doesn't bode well for our country.


----------



## aris2chat (Apr 28, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Time for some Elton John...
> 
> Elton John - Can you feel the love tonight Live (Rare Video) - YouTube
> 
> ...



great music


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> I hope the whole story is false.  It did accomplish one thing though, it opened my eyes to how depraved Sunni is, and if he is the typical Muslim, it doesn't bode well for our country.


There are 1.5 billion muslims in the world and growing (about 25% of the world population).

And no, we are not depraved, as you suggest.

We just subscribe to a different set of values.   ..


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > I hope the whole story is false.  It did accomplish one thing though, it opened my eyes to how depraved Sunni is, and if he is the typical Muslim, it doesn't bode well for our country.
> ...



Lashing a woman to death is values?  female circumcision is values?  I've been reading your posts lately and there are no values in your religion.  None, zip, nada.  I know it makes you feel like you're better than me simply because you are a man but the truth is, you're not.


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 28, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...


Like I have said several times......lashing for driving and female circumcision has zero to do with Islam.......and is a cultural practice.

If you want to know about the religion of Islam.....then read the Quran. 

That's where you will find out about the values inherent in Islam.   .


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 28, 2014)

Lashing, stoning, beheading, beating women are all part of Islam.  It is in their Koran, AgainSheila.


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 28, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



You don't get it.  YOU are an example of your religion.  YOU are why I don't like Islam.  YOU have no thought or care for the poor woman who's going to be lashed to death.  You have no care or sympathy for young girls who are forced to have female circumcision.  You still have not answered my question as to whether you forced such on your daughter or not.  YOU are what I base my decision on.  It doesn't matter what the Koran says, it matters what it's followers say, what YOU say.


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...


No, .... I did not have my daughters circumcised.   ..


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Lashing, stoning, beheading, beating women are all part of Islam.  It is in their Koran, AgainSheila.


Jeremiah, obviously you have never read the Quran.

None of the items you have listed are spoken about in the Quran.

The Quran says nothing about lashings, stonings, beheading, beatings, etc.


Seriously Jeremiah, telling lies and spreading hate isn't what the Gospel instructs you to do.  ..


----------



## Roudy (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Lashing, stoning, beheading, beating women are all part of Islam.  It is in their Koran, AgainSheila.
> ...


Again, you seem to know very little about Islam, or lying to cover it up:
[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=VmoGPBDDzN4]How to beat your wife television show instructs men on rules on beating your women - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Roudy (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Lashing, stoning, beheading, beating women are all part of Islam.  It is in their Koran, AgainSheila.
> ...


Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and *beat them*; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

Qur'an (38:44) - *"And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath...*"


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...


Mistranslations and verses taken out of context are easy to find on the internet.

Looks like you found some Roudy to back up your zionist hate agenda against Islam and muslims.    ..


----------



## Lipush (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



Everytime they cook for you, they can poison your food, too

Muslim men tend to forget that


----------



## Roudy (Apr 29, 2014)

No mistranslation.  TRUTH. These are religious Muslims and scholars who are of the same opinion:

[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=ChnpaMK1oLQ]Islam - Wife Beating Etiquette - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Roudy (Apr 29, 2014)

[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=HKBmHWUSJI4]Kuwaiti Scholar Jassem Al-Mutawa: Wife Beating in Islam Treats Women Suffering from Masochism - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

Seriously Roudy, you think one unknown Islamic leader speaks for 1.5 billion muslims in the world??    .


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Lashing, stoning, beheading, beating women are all part of Islam.  It is in their Koran, AgainSheila.
> ...



Smite their necks means cut their heads off.  ( Surah in Qu'ran )  109 murder verses in the Qu'ran - ordering Muslims to murder the unbelievers is more than enough.  Don't play games  with me, Sunni.  You're out of your league here.


I'll post a link here to back up my claim of 109 murder verses if you request one..  The hadiths are even worse if that is possible..  have a look...


Muslim (19:4321-4323) &#8211; Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over
the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against
unbelievers.  His response: &#8220;They are of them (meaning the enemy).&#8221; 




 Tabari 7:97 
The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, &#8220;Kill any Jew
who falls under your power.&#8221;  Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad&#8217;s
men because he insulted Islam.  Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his
orders to kill.  An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his
Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.

 Tabari 9:69 
&#8220;Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us&#8221;  The words of
Muhammad, prophet of Islam.

 Tabari 17:187 
&#8220;&#8216;By God, our religion (din) from which we have departed is better and more
correct than that which these people follow. Their religion does not stop them
from shedding blood, terrifying the roads, and seizing properties.&#8217; And they
returned to their former religion.&#8221;  The words of a group of Christians
who had converted to Islam, but realized their error after being shocked by the
violence and looting committed in the name of Allah.  The price of their
decision to return to a religion of peace was that the men were beheaded and the
woman and children enslaved by the caliph Ali. 

 Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 327:
- &#8220;Allah said, &#8216;A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A
slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of
this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires
killing them to manifest the religion.&#8217;&#8221;

 Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 990: -
Lest anyone think that cutting off someone&#8217;s head while screaming &#8216;Allah Akbar!&#8217;
is a modern creation, here is an account of that very practice under Muhammad, who
seems to approve.



Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 992: -
&#8220;Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah.&#8221;
 Muhammad&#8217;s instructions to his men prior to a military raid


see more on this link:  http://www.norcalblogs.com/gate/2012/01/16/109-koran-versesthat-call-for-violence/


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Smite their necks means cut their heads off.  ( Surah in Qu'ran )  Don't play games  with me, Sunni.  You're out of your league here.


Actually Jeremiah, ......your not even in the league........but thanks for trying to play.    ..


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> *Smite* their necks means cut their heads off.  ( Surah in Qu'ran )


"Smite" ....... isn't that a Bible word??    ..


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Smite their necks means cut their heads off.  ( Surah in Qu'ran )  Don't play games  with me, Sunni.  You're out of your league here.
> ...



Are you running from a non muslim woman over a debate on hadiths and  109 Suras calling for violence from the Qu'ran? 

Or are you running because I just proved you lied, Sunni?  

  Seriously, I know you don't know much about this religion you converted to, Sunni, but you should stick around for the education!  Rethink this one.   You sound like a coward.  

- Jeremiah

Here is a link to get you started: 

109 Verses From The Quran That Call For Violence | Gate


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



Link provided:  109 Verses From The Quran That Call For Violence | Gate


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Smite their necks means cut their heads off.  ( Surah in Qu'ran )  Don't play games  with me, Sunni.  You're out of your league here.


Actually Jeremiah, your not even in the league........but thanks for trying to play.    ..    


Jeremiah said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...


More name calling from the fake Christian.   ..   

And when exactly did I take off running??


Of course there are incidences of violence during war in the Quran.......just the same as there is in the Bible. And I could post literally hundreds of verses encouraging murder and violence in the Bible. 


But my original statement was that there aren't beheadings or lashings listed in the Quran.


And so far you have failed to prove me wrong.   ..    

.


----------



## Roudy (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Seriously Roudy, you think one unknown Islamic leader speaks for 1.5 billion muslims in the world??    .


I think you certainly don't speak for, or know half as much as Islamic leaders and Imams, who all claim that beating your wife is acceptable in Islam and written in the Koran.  You can dress up this pig as much as you want, but it's still going to be a pig.

You're just an ignorant person with insecurity problems towards women, who converted to Islam out of stupidity and because you were attracted to the chauvinism and abuse of women in Islam.  

True story


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Seriously Roudy, you think one unknown Islamic leader speaks for 1.5 billion muslims in the world??    .



Seriously, Sunni, have you said one word to condemn such treatment of women?  Prove the Muslims aren't like that.  Speak out against the cruel treatment of women by other Muslims.  Stop supporting the harsh treatment of women.  Show compassion.  Beating women, lashing them to death, I have a big problem with that.  You should too, that you don't is very telling of your religion.


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



Thank God for small miracles.  Given your attitude, I have no doubt, if you lived in a Muslim country, you would have.


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Smite their necks means cut their heads off.  ( Surah in Qu'ran )  Don't play games  with me, Sunni.  You're out of your league here.
> ...



He's doing a real good job, Sunni, and you are failing miserably at defending your religion.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Smite their necks means cut their heads off.  ( Surah in Qu'ran )  Don't play games  with me, Sunni.  You're out of your league here.
> ...



I have not called you a name.  I said, you "sound" like a coward.  You accuse me of lying, I provide links, verses, hadiths and more and your response is to cut and run.  What should I think?


----------



## Roudy (Apr 29, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Seriously Roudy, you think one unknown Islamic leader speaks for 1.5 billion muslims in the world??    .
> ...


Here is a Western convert asshole like Sunni, confirming that the Koran allows use of force by a man.  It doesn't get any clearer than this.  Men are commanded to best the women if they see them straying from the "path".  Does this guy sound like some obscure radical to anybody?  

[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=H7cYbCgRJgs]Re: Wife Beating in Islam - The Rules - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Seriously Roudy, you think one unknown Islamic leader speaks for 1.5 billion muslims in the world??    .
> ...


I am opposed to domestic violence against women.......especially in my own country of America.

Here in the U.S. over 75% of the citizens claim to be Christians.......and yet statistics say a woman is beaten or murdered every minute of every day 24/7/365

Which means there are a whole lot of Christians beating the hell out of women in America.

So I don't understand why so many people focus on muslim countries........when DV is epidemic here in the U.S.    ..


----------



## Roudy (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Smite their necks means cut their heads off.  ( Surah in Qu'ran )  Don't play games  with me, Sunni.  You're out of your league here.
> ...


Ha ha ha.  Sunni you really don't know the first thing about the religion you converted to, do you?  I guess they told you that you can beat the women and abuse them, and that's all you needed to hear.  Love at first sight.


----------



## Roudy (Apr 29, 2014)

This must be Sunni's mosque Imam.  "There are types of women that a man cannot live with, unless he carries a rod in his hand.  God created man with the owners manual, the owners manual is the Koran, it tells the man you can beat your wife if necessary."  

Hey Sunni, your religion, your culture, your savagery.  What business is it of ours, right?  LOL

[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=iWGA8i6scYY]Wife Beating in Islam - Only a rod will help! - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Smite their necks means cut their heads off.  ( Surah in Qu'ran )  Don't play games  with me, Sunni.  You're out of your league here.
> ...



Violence during war?   No, Sunni.  Jihad can happen in a civilian neighborhood on a clear blue sky day.   See 9/11 for a point of reference.

Let's get this straight for the readers here.   There's a difference between the verses in the Torah ( some call Old Testament part of Bible ) referencing violence in war from the 109 violent verses in the Qu'ran and the reason is simple. 

  The Torah verses were for a specific time and purpose and are not applicable today.  They are only referenced as a part of the history of Israel and how G-d led the Israelites into that land which He gave them.  The battles are significant in that they give us the history of the region, the Kings of Israel & the enemies they were confronted with.  It is a historical account.  Nothing more.  

In the 21st century,  Jews do not take their women out and stone them to death for adultery, there are no more youths taken out of the city to be judged for serious disobedience which G-d had forbidden.  None of this is done today.  It is part of ancient history.  Ask any Jew. 

Islam cannot make the same claim.  They actively stone adulters to death, behead infidels, and execute their own people for disobedience to the Qu'ran in the 21st century.  

Concerning Jihad: 

 Jihad is still a live doctrine and their belief that they are being oppressed is reason enough to wage it.  They could claim they were oppressed from  a McDonalds on their street corner and wage jihad.  They could wage jihad for a comic of Mohammad, a movie by Geert Wilders or one muslim dying at the hands of a non muslim... ( reason the Muslims set France on fire last time )   they could wage jihad for an endless number of reasons as they do continually throughout the world.  

The claim that verses from the bible - referencing violence - are equivalent to the verses of the Koran - referencing violence - are blatantly false because whereas one is a record of history the other is "making a record" in history as the worlds bloodiest religion in the 21st century.  Bar none. 


- Jeremiah


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Feel free to comment.   This is directly related to why this Saudi woman is an example of Sharia law in action.   The abbrogation of all violent verses  from the Qu'ran - including all hate language and violence against Jews and Christians - the removal of the hadiths would make sure nothing such as this every happens again ( 150 lashes )  - it can be done - the provision is there - but Islamists refuse to consider it.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



If you were opposed to violence against women you would not have remained silent throughout this thread concerning the Saudi Muslim woman sentenced to death by 150 lashes.
(for driving a car)


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Feel free to comment.   This is directly related to why this Saudi woman is an example of Sharia law in action.   The abbrogation of all violent verses  from the Qu'ran- the removal of the hadiths would make sure nothing such as this every happens again ( 150 lashes )  - it can be done - the provision is there - but Islamists refuse to consider it.


Obviously, you don't understand the theological concept of abrogation or how it pertains to the Quran.


btw  The entire Old Testament was abrogated by the New Testament.

True story........


----------



## toastman (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Smite their necks means cut their heads off.  ( Surah in Qu'ran )  Don't play games  with me, Sunni.  You're out of your league here.
> ...



What is written in the Bible and the Quran is irrelevant. 

What IS relevant if how what is written in these books is taken too seriously by the followers and applied in real life.
There might be verses in the Bible like you say that encourage violence, but you don't see Christians massacring people today like Muslims do.

Muslims take what's written in the Quran and apply it to real life, by killing in the name of Allah by the tens of thousands.
They take violence to a whole new level


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

There are three forms of abbrogation according to the Qu'ran and they could surely abbrogate those verses if they wanted to.  
Don't give me this nonsense, Sunni.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

toastman said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



I respectfully disagree with you on that one, Toastman.  It is relevant.  Sunni Man was attempting to use the historical accounts in the Torah to justify the bloodshed waged through jihad today.    He has no grounds because there is no comparison to validate his claims.


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> There are three forms of abbrogation according to the Qu'ran and they could surely abbrogate those verses if they wanted to.
> Don't give me this nonsense, Sunni.


Really??  .... please explain in your own words........because I am only here to learn.     .


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Feel free to comment.   This is directly related to why this Saudi woman is an example of Sharia law in action.   The abbrogation of all violent verses  from the Qu'ran- the removal of the hadiths would make sure nothing such as this every happens again ( 150 lashes )  - it can be done - the provision is there - but Islamists refuse to consider it.
> ...



You are wrong again, Sunni. 

  The truth is the Qu'ran already has abbrogated verses in it.  Such as the verse which formerly told you to pray towards Jerusalem but now tell you to pray towards Mecca!   

Islam Review - Presented by The Pen vs. the Sword Featured Articles . . . Islam: the Facade, the Facts The rosy picture some Muslims are painting about their religion, and the truth they try to hide.

THREE KINDS OF ABROGATION:
1) Verses in which both the wording and application were abrogated/nullified.

There is an example of this found in a narration by Ans Ibn Abdel Malik. He said that during the life of Mohammed, they used to read a Surah that was equal in size to that of Surah 9 (the repentance). He further stated that he only remembered one verse from that Surah/chapter. - &#8220;If the son of Adam has two valleys of gold he would covet to have a third one, if he has three he would covet to have a fourth one. Nothing would fill the belly of the son of Adam except dirt, and Allah would accept the repentance of those who repent.&#8221;

Another example is the narration of Ibn Abdullah Ibn Massoud. He said that Mohammed recited a verse for him that he memorized and wrote in his Quran. When he checked his Quran the following day, he discovered that the verse had disappeared. Mohammed explained what had happened to ibn Massoud. He told him that the verse had been lifted during the previous day.

2) Verses in which the wording was abrogated (nullified) but the application was not.

These are verses wherein the wording was nullified, but the inferences/possible applications of those words remained intact. 

There is an example of this form in a narration about Omar Ibn Al Khattab. He said, &#8220;If I didn&#8217;t hate that people would say we added to the Quran which was not part of it, I would have insisted in including the verse of stoning. By God we have recited it by the Apostle of God.&#8221;

3) Verses in which the application was abrogated (nullified), but the wording was not.

These are verses wherein the wording remained the same, but the authority to consider such in the formation of Islamic polices were nullified 

There are sixty-three Surahs/chapters in the Quran that mention such things as praying in the direction of Jerusalem, regulations about fasting and the forgiveness that is available to polytheists.


----------



## Sally (Apr 29, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



Mentally unbalanced Sunni Man would probably give this man kudos for his actions.

Court doc: Man cites his 'Islamic belief' as right to kill wife - WFSB 3 Connecticut


----------



## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> You are wrong again, Sunni.
> 
> The truth is the Qu'ran already has abbrogated verses in it.  Such as the verse which formerly told you to pray towards Jerusalem but now tell you to pray towards Mecca!


So Muhammad 's changing the direction of prayer is an abrogation of the Quran??   

That's classic..........    

Obviously, you do not have the slightest idea what the theological concept of abrogation entails or means.   ..


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > There are three forms of abbrogation according to the Qu'ran and they could surely abbrogate those verses if they wanted to.
> ...



Done.


----------



## aris2chat (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Lashing, stoning, beheading, beating women are all part of Islam.  It is in their Koran, AgainSheila.
> ...





5:33-The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution (by beheading), or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

8:12- I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off.

47:4- Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), strike off their heads; at length; then when you have made wide Slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives: thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens.



9:123: Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you.

2:191- Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from wherever they drove you out.

5: 45-- We ordained therein for them: Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear. Toth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal.

2:193- Fight them on until there is no more tumult and religion becomes that of Allah

9:29- "Fight those who do not believe in God and the last day... and fight People of the Book, (Christian and Jews) who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute (Zizziya tax) by hand, being inferior.

8:17-It is not ye who Slew them; it is God; when thou threwest a handful of dust, it was not Thy act, but Gods.. (Allah is a real merciful indeed!)

The Qur'an:

Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

Qur'an (38:44) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..."  Allah telling Job to beat his wife.

From the Hadith:

Bukhari (72:715) - A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her.  Her skin was bruised so badly that she it is described as being "greener" than the green veil she was wearing.  Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires.

Bukhari (72:715) - "Aisha said, 'I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women'"  This is Muhammad's own wife complaining of the abuse that the women of her religions suffer relative to other women.

Muslim (4:2127) - Muhammad struck his favorite wife, Aisha, in the chest one evening when she left the house without his permission.  Aisha narrates, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain."

Muslim (9:3506) - Muhammad's father-in-laws (Abu Bakr and Umar) amused him by slapping his wives (Aisha and Hafsa) for annoying him.  According to the Hadith, the prophet of Islam laughed upon hearing this.

Abu Dawud (2141) - "Iyas bin Abd Allah bin Abi Dhubab reported the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not beat Allahs handmaidens, but when Umar came to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) and said: Women have become emboldened towards their husbands, he (the Prophet) gave permission to beat them."  At first, Muhammad forbade men from beating their wives, but he rescinded this once it was reported that women were becoming emboldened toward their husbands.  Beatings are sometimes necessary to keep women in their place.

Abu Dawud (2142) - "The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife."

Abu Dawud (2126) - "A man from the Ansar called Basrah said: 'I married a virgin woman in her veil. When I entered upon her, I found her pregnant. (I mentioned this to the Prophet).' The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: 'She will get the dower, for you made her vagina lawful for you. The child will be your slave. When she has begotten (a child), flog her'"  A Muslim man thinks his is getting a virgin, then finds out she is pregnant.  Muhammad tells him to treat the woman as a sex slave and then flog her after she has delivered the child.

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 969 - Requires that a married woman be "put in a separate room and beaten lightly" if she "act in a sexual manner toward others."  According to the Hadith, this can be for an offense as petty as merely being alone with a man to whom she is not related.

Kash-shaf (the revealer) of al-Zamkhshari (Vol. 1, p. 525) - [Muhammad said] "Hang up your scourge where your wife can see it"

From the Hadith:

Bukhari (6:60:79) - Two people guilty of "illegal intercourse" are brought to Muhammad, who commands that they both be stoned.  Apparently their act was out of love, however, since the verse records the man as trying to shield the woman from the stones.

Bukhari (83:37) - Adultery is one of three justifications for killing a person, according to Muhammad.

Muslim (17:4192) - Clarifies the different penalties for adultery (when the subjects are married), and fornication (when they are not): "in case of married (persons) there is (a punishment) of one hundred lashes and then stoning (to death). And in case of unmarried persons, (the punishment) is one hundred lashes and exile for one year" (See also 17:4191)

Muslim (17:4196) - A married man confesses that he has adultery.  Muhammad orders him planted in the ground and pelted with stones.  According to the passage, the first several stones caused such pain that he tried to escape and was dragged back.

Muslim (17:4206) - A woman who became pregnant confesses to Muhammad that she is guilty of adultery.  Muhammad allows her to have the child, then has her stoned (the description is graphic).

Muslim (17:4209) - A woman confesses adultery and is stoned to death on Muhammad's order.

Ibn Ishaq (970) - "The adulterer must be stoned."  These words were a part of Muhammad's farewell address to his people on the occasion of his final pilgrimage to Mecca.

Islamic Law - "The stone shall not be so big so as to kill the person by one or two strikes, neither shall it be so small that it cannot be called a stone"  The victim is intended to suffer.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> The truth is the Qu'ran already has abbrogated verses in it.  Such as the verse which formerly told you to pray towards Jerusalem but now tell you to pray towards Mecca!
> 
> Islam Review - Presented by The Pen vs. the Sword Featured Articles . . . Islam: the Facade, the Facts The rosy picture some Muslims are painting about their religion, and the truth they try to hide.


Nice!!....... a Christian hate site trying to explain Islam and the Quran.  .   

You go girl.......


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Sally said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



I believe he has already went over the top after mentioning abbrogation.  Such a sensitive soul.  Who knew?   The truth is Sally abbrogation was a very convenient idea when you needed to change the direction you were praying in, needed to revise something and replace it with something better.  ( made a mistake )  One would think "Allah" could get it right the first time.  

How many ways must one have to edit -revise-change ones own Words?  ( Allah's Qu'ran )


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## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...


So where is it??.......and in your own words.......no cut&past.   .


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > The truth is the Qu'ran already has abbrogated verses in it.  Such as the verse which formerly told you to pray towards Jerusalem but now tell you to pray towards Mecca!
> ...



Anything that explains Islam and the Qu'ran is called a hate site by Muslims, Sunni.  What's new?


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



Good.  The calvary is here.   Took you long enough!


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## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...


You post a site with "Islam the Facade" in the title and then try to deny it anti-Islam.  

You really are mentally unhinged.   .


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## Roudy (Apr 29, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...


Sunni:  "It's all mistranslations, I tell ya, Islam is a very peaceful and tolerant religion..." Ha ha ha.


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## DriftingSand (Apr 29, 2014)

Sally said:


> Can anyone imagine a woman being lashed in the civilized world like this?  What is the big deal about women driving?  They drive all around the world, and the authorities don't stop them unless they have committed a traffic infraction.,.
> 
> Saudi woman gets 150 lashes for driving
> April 26, 2014, 9:08 am
> ...



According to the sorely incomplete article her punishment is based on resisting arrest rather than driving.  I can't bring myself to accept your choice of "news source" as being very legitimate. 

"Conservative nation?"  Hardly!  That's the real purpose of the article -- to associate Muslim extremism to "conservatism."


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



You need glasses or you have another problem here, Sunni.  The title reads, "Islam:  the facade, the facts, The Rosy picture some Muslims are trying to paint about their religion, and the truth they are trying to deny.    

That is a far cry from Islam the facade.  Wouldn't you say?


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## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

DriftingSand said:


> According to the sorely incomplete article her punishment is based on resisting arrest rather than driving.


That's what I tried to explain from the start.....and that's when the rabid attacks began.   ..


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## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...


Nope.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Roudy said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



Here Islamic Law plainly states the size of the stone to use so the victim suffers.  How awful is that?


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



Are you able to find Israel on a map?   Just curious.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> DriftingSand said:
> 
> 
> > According to the sorely incomplete article her punishment is based on resisting arrest rather than driving.
> ...



What rabid attacks?  Are you alright today?!


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## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Are you able to find Israel on a map?   Just curious.


Did Jesus tell you to be condescending towards people as a way to spread the Gospel?   .


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

I had no idea you considered polite dialogue that disagrees with you to be a rabid attack, Sunni.   You need to get a dictionary and look up word rabid and then reread this thread.  American message boards are not defined according to Shariah interpretations.  If you cannot tolerate debate ( heated or not )  get out of the kitchen.   - Jeremiah


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Are you able to find Israel on a map?   Just curious.
> ...



It is an honest question. If you cannot read the Suras (violence)  right in front of your nose it's a good possibility you don't see Israel when you look at a world map either.  I'm asking a question.  Why not answer it?


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## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> I had no idea you considered polite dialogue that disagrees with you to be a rabid attack, Sunni.


So you have been polite towards me?

You do know Jeremiah that Jesus says lying is a sin??   .


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Nevermind. Your silence has already answered the question.   

Next?


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## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...


My map has Palestine on it.....there is no Israel.   ..


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > I had no idea you considered polite dialogue that disagrees with you to be a rabid attack, Sunni.
> ...



Under the circumstances of what you have been doing lately I believe I've been exceedingly polite.   What is your problem?


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## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...


I seriously doubt Jesus would agree with you.   ..


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## aris2chat (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Feel free to comment.   This is directly related to why this Saudi woman is an example of Sharia law in action.   The abbrogation of all violent verses  from the Qu'ran- the removal of the hadiths would make sure nothing such as this every happens again ( 150 lashes )  - it can be done - the provision is there - but Islamists refuse to consider it.
> ...




Yes, yes, a new verse supercedes an earlier ayat, but the quran is sorted not by when a line is given but from largest to smalls Sura.

You would have to change the sura back to their original order before you speak of abrogation.


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## aris2chat (Apr 29, 2014)

DriftingSand said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Can anyone imagine a woman being lashed in the civilized world like this?  What is the big deal about women driving?  They drive all around the world, and the authorities don't stop them unless they have committed a traffic infraction.,.
> ...



Would you rather ...
.  
&#8216;Driving costs Saudi woman 150 lashes&#8217;
Press TV | Fri Apr 25, 2014 23:39 UTC
...  A woman has been sentenced to 150 lashes and eight months behind bars in Saudi Arabia on charges of driving, a report says. ... ...
Source URL: [ PressTV - Saudi woman gets 150 lashes for driving: Report ] 

Or MSN, Courier?


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



Just to be thorough I went back and examined the pages of this thread.  Within this thread the reader can see for themselves I never called you a single name.  

Yet I do find unwarranted and rabid attacks on this thread.  Made by you against me,Sunni.  How many times did I complain or make a report?  Zero? How many times did I bless you here?  Once - publicly - as a sign of my christianity I am commanded to bless those who curse me.  


Do you realize that on this one thread you have called me a nutcase, a hater, a fake christian, a liar,  - which I proved I was not and you made no retraction - misquoted me repeatedly, claimed I told you to move to another country when I told you no such thing, lied repeatedly on other accounts including denying the surahs and hadiths I put up and have yet to make any sort of correction or apology forthcoming from you, Sunni.  

I didn't report you.  I continued to be polite and make my counter argument.  You lost and you are not taking it well.  

That's a wrap.  

-Jeremiah


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



Jesus would give me a gold star for good behavior!


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## toastman (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



So then where is Israel???


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## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

Jeremiah, report me till the cows come home......I really don't care.

And your behavior has been far from Christian.

You have called me a liar among other names.

But if you think Jesus is fine with your behavior.

Then by all means.....carry on.   ..


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> DriftingSand said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...



A clip from your PressTV link here, Aris. 

 There is no specific law to prevent women from driving in the kingdom, however, women simply cannot apply for driving licenses and some have been arrested for driving. 

Saudi Arabia is the only country in the world where women are prohibited from driving. The medieval ban is a religious fatwa imposed by the country&#8217;s Wahhabi clerics. If women get behind the wheel in the kingdom, they may be arrested, sent to court and even flogged. http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/04/25/360078/driving-costs-saudi-woman-150-lashes/


___________________

It does appear Sunni was wrong.  The law doesn't originate from the Saudi govt but from the Wahhabi clerics  - they issued of an islamic - religious fatwa.   The truth comes out again.  ( right down to who orders those floggings! )


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## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

toastman said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...


Maps in ME muslim countries like Egypt, Syria, Turkey, etc. 

Do not show the name Israel on the occupied land .......but say Palestine.   .


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah, report me till the cows come home......I really don't care.
> 
> And your behavior has been far from Christian.
> 
> ...



I haven't reported you for anything you've said on this thread.    I forgive you because as Jesus said, You do not know what you are doing.    

Jesus & I are fine.  Thanks for your concern.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



America's world maps have Israel on it.  I have one.   In America we do things the way the Americans do them.  Not the middle easterners.   Keep it for future reference.


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## Esmeralda (Apr 29, 2014)

Sally said:


> Can anyone imagine a woman being lashed in the civilized world like this?  What is the big deal about women driving?  They drive all around the world, and the authorities don't stop them unless they have committed a traffic infraction.,.
> 
> Saudi woman gets 150 lashes for driving
> April 26, 2014, 9:08 am
> ...



It's just stupid to hold up Saudi Arabia as an example of anything else except Saudi Arabia.  No other Muslim country is like it.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> American world maps have Israel on it.  I have one.   In America we do things the way the Americans do them.  Not the middle easterners.  * Keep it for future reference.  *


That's why I am keeping it....because when Israel is gone and Palestine replaces it......I will already have a map showing the new reality.   .


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

You better buy an American made map then.  There is no sovereign State of Palestine and there never will be.   Your map is useless.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > DriftingSand said:
> ...



Getting back on topic here.  80% of the mosques in the United States are Wahhabist so if Sharia Law were enacted in the USA the Wahhabi clerics could issue such a fatwa here.   This should concern all Americans.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> You better buy an American made map then.  There is no sovereign State of Palestine and there never will be.   Your map is useless.


You're incorrect on all points.  .


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Your invisible map is worth zip.    The map the world goes by is the one with Israel on it.  

Wrap that around your mind and let it sink in slowly.  Stop trying to derail the discussion and address the links Aris put up.  They prove you are wrong about why the woman is getting lashed.  It was a fatwa and that was the punishment.   Any thoughts on why they call it medieval ban is a fatwa?  How long have cars been around?   Any idea?


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## Roudy (Apr 29, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Can anyone imagine a woman being lashed in the civilized world like this?  What is the big deal about women driving?  They drive all around the world, and the authorities don't stop them unless they have committed a traffic infraction.,.
> ...


You mean we shouldn't use countries like Pakistan or Yemen which are even worse than Saudi Arabia?

Problem with that argument is Saudi Arabia is called The Cradle of Islam, which hosts Islam's two holiest sites, of which millions of Muslims flock to every day.  In other words, Saudi Arabia is Islam, and sets the standard for it.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

If the ban on women driving is a  medieval fatwa what does that mean?  What does medieval mean?  Anyone?


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...



bingo


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Could it be that they are saying that the issue of fatwas is medieval?   How could driving ban be medieval?


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## Esmeralda (Apr 29, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...



I've lived in three different Muslim countries. Lived in them and worked in them, worked with the Muslim people.  They are nothing like Saudi.  And what is your empirical evidence that Yemen and Pakistan are worse?  You know only what you see on TV. You have no actual experience of the ME.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Do you know what is going on inside Pakistan?  Yemen?  Afganistan?   Iran?   How is that better than Saudi Arabia, Esmeralda?


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

What about that medieval comment?    Isn't anyone going to address that?  Too uncomfortable?


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## Roudy (Apr 29, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


Empirical evidence?  Ha ha ha.  Pakistan is Taliban HQ, and Yemen is now Al Queda HQ.  In Yemen they are legally marrying 9 year old girls.  Keep up will ya.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



Very dangerous places to be for women and children.  ( men too )


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## Esmeralda (Apr 29, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



They make marriage contracts with girls and boys at young ages. They do not have sex with these girls until they are physically menstruating females, women in biological terms.  As well, this is a minority of people who do this, primarily small village people, fundamentalists, and uneducated people.  The Taliban is an extremist group that the vast majority of Muslims on the plant reject.  You are the one who can't keep up. There are billions of Muslims.  Only an extremely tiny minority support what the Taliban does.  As well, of all the Muslim countries in the world, only 2 or 3 have complete Sharia law. It is archaic and not done in the vast majority of Muslim countries. You are an ignoramus and bigot. You are not keeping up with reality because you prefer to hate.


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## Againsheila (Apr 29, 2014)

DriftingSand said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Can anyone imagine a woman being lashed in the civilized world like this?  What is the big deal about women driving?  They drive all around the world, and the authorities don't stop them unless they have committed a traffic infraction.,.
> ...



Have you read Sunni's posts?


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## Againsheila (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> DriftingSand said:
> 
> 
> > According to the sorely incomplete article her punishment is based on resisting arrest rather than driving.
> ...



regardless of the charge, this woman has been put to death in a most barbaric way, that is, if you can believe the article.  The sad thing is there are now two people defending this barbarism.


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## Esmeralda (Apr 29, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...



NYC, Chicago, Detroit, etc. are very dangerous places for women and children, and men, et all, to be.


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## Desperado (Apr 29, 2014)

Did anyone read the article?
*It appeared that the particularly harsh sentence was handed down because of the charges of resisting arrest and attacking police officers, according to various reports.
* not so much for driving.


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## Esmeralda (Apr 29, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Do you know what is going on inside Pakistan?  Yemen?  Afganistan?   Iran?   How is that better than Saudi Arabia, Esmeralda?


I'm not the one saying it is worse.  I never brought those countries into the discussion. If you want to make a claim about them, support it with evidence instead of just saying your assumptions are truth.  What is the truth? You prove it.


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## Esmeralda (Apr 29, 2014)

Desperado said:


> Did anyone read the article?
> *It appeared that the particularly harsh sentence was handed down because of the charges of resisting arrest and attacking police officers, according to various reports.
> * not so much for driving.



Exactly, this is a direct quote from the artical.  "It appeared that the particularly harsh sentence was handed down because of the charges of resisting arrest and attacking police officers, according to various reports." Whether or not we agree with the law of women not driving, in the States, most people would not excuse resisting arrest and attacking the police when you are being lawfully arrested.


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## Esmeralda (Apr 29, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...



Actually no. Saudi Arabia is not 'Islam.'  That's like saying the Vatican is 'Christianity' for all the billions of Christions on Earth. Simply not true. And it is not true that the country  of Saudi Arabi is the same as all of Islam or that they set the standard for all of Islam. They are a tiny country with a small population. Most Muslims, and that means billions of people, do  not live under full Sharia law and do not want to live under the type of government in Saudi.


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## Againsheila (Apr 29, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Can anyone imagine a woman being lashed in the civilized world like this?  What is the big deal about women driving?  They drive all around the world, and the authorities don't stop them unless they have committed a traffic infraction.,.
> ...



And yet, Sunni, an American Muslim, has no problems with this.


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## Esmeralda (Apr 29, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...



He also does not represent the billions of Muslims across the world. Based on what I have read of his posts and in comparison to what I know of the Muslim world, probably  having lived in it more than he has, if he ever has, I note that his posts show him to be far more conservative than most modern, educated Muslims. He has a very simplistic and old fashioned view as opposed to more forward thinking, modern, educated Muslims. Saudi does not represent modern day Islam. I just had a conversation about that with a group of educated, modern young Muslim women just the other day.  Not American Muslims but women who live in the ME.  And not women who were saying what they thought I wanted to hear.  I have spent so much time, due to my career, spending personal, relaxed time with Muslim people, we speak openly about these subjects.  The major aspect of my interaction with them is casual conversation and discussion.


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## Againsheila (Apr 29, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...



You do know that the average age girls start menstruating is 12 and a half, right?

You have an average American Muslim right here on this thread and he has no problems with this woman being whipped to death.  He doesn't even think it's going to kill her.


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## Roudy (Apr 29, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...


Most Muslim countries have these "extremist issues" even the most moderate of them, while the govt. is moderate, the majority of the population has this backwards ass barbaric culture.  

If you think the marriage is only a "contract" you are extremely wrong.  Marriage and SEX with 9 year olds is completely legal.  Are you another one of these people who whitewash Islamic behavior and culture?


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## Againsheila (Apr 29, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



Difference is, it's the criminals that make in dangerous, not the laws.


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## Againsheila (Apr 29, 2014)

Desperado said:


> Did anyone read the article?
> *It appeared that the particularly harsh sentence was handed down because of the charges of resisting arrest and attacking police officers, according to various reports.
> * not so much for driving.



And you believe resisting arrest is worthy of being whipped to death?


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## Roudy (Apr 29, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...


And what percentage of Muslims are "forward thinking / educated", not including the ones that live in the US, Europe and the West in general?  Sunni is actually pretty much typical Islamist thinking.


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## Againsheila (Apr 29, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Do you know what is going on inside Pakistan?  Yemen?  Afganistan?   Iran?   How is that better than Saudi Arabia, Esmeralda?
> ...



Well, he's posted a whole lot of quotes from the Koran, all you've posted is your opinion based on your own experiences.  Which one will hold up in a court of law?


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## Againsheila (Apr 29, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> > Did anyone read the article?
> ...



Good Lord, a 3rd person who has no problems with this woman being whipped to death.  There is no hope.


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## HenryBHough (Apr 29, 2014)

Amazing how many think women are for whipping.

More amazing how many of them are women.


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## Againsheila (Apr 29, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...



He's the only one here that I know of that's an actual Muslim.  That makes his views here very important.  As I tell my Japanese students, "You are ambassadors for your country.  What you do here will reflect on your country, your people and your family."  Same goes for the only Muslim on the thread.  What he says and does reflects on his religion.  If some Muslim comes on here and argues against this woman being lashed to death, I will give him all the credit he is due, and I will be relieved.  Right now, I'm not too thrilled with you either.  How can you defend this practice?


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## Roudy (Apr 29, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...


What are you talking about.  I don't think you've been around Muslims the way you claim to.  

If you had, you would know that Saudi Arabia is MORE than the Vatican of Islam, it is the CENTER of Islam, they face Mecca when they pray, and every true Muslim of all walks of life yearns to do pilgrimage there.  It is where Mohammad came from and is buried, and setting for the Koran came from.  

Without Saudi Arabia, Islam is nothing.


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## HenryBHough (Apr 29, 2014)

The only ADMITTED Muslim.......


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## Againsheila (Apr 29, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> The only ADMITTED Muslim.......



Well, that is a point.  I would still like to see a Muslim come on here and lambaste Sunni and Saudi Arabia and deny that this is any part of Islam.


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## Esmeralda (Apr 29, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



What court of law? Saudi is a complete theocracy. So in Saudi, Sharia law will hold up. However, as far as I know, and I researched it, there are only one  or two countries in the world that are ruled by Sharia law.  Others have partial Sharia law, others none, not as  part of their legal system.  The things he may post about the Koran are like people posting things from the Old Testment that no longer apply in the modern West.  It is the same with modern Islam. Many things in the Koran are not applical in modern Islam, no more than many things in the Bible are applical in modern Christianity.  Over and over again I post that there are billions of Muslims in the world. Only a tiny proportion live in the ME, and even in the ME, most of the countries don't have full Sharia law.  You are thinking like all the countries are the same, when in fact they are all different. It's like thinking all Western countries are the same because they are predominantly Christian. Are Columbia or Brazil exactly like America because it is Christian?  Why don't people use common sense?


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## Againsheila (Apr 29, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...



It was an expression.  It means that he posted facts, you posted opinion.

Until some Muslims come out speaking against this punishment, they might as well all be in favor of it.


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## Esmeralda (Apr 29, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



Mecca is in Saudi. Saudi Arabia is not Mecca.  Mecca is Mecca. Saudi Arabia is Saudi Arabia. Two different entities.  Just like the Vatican is inside Italy. That does not make Italy the center of Christianity.  Going on a pilgramage to Mecca is not going on a pilgrimage to Saudi Arabia.  

Most modern, educated Muslims do not live by Sharia law.  Most Muslim countries around the world do not live by Sharia law.  Saudi Arabia does not represent Islam.  

You people need to educate yourselves.


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## Againsheila (Apr 29, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...



I don't want to.  If accepting Islam means accepting that this woman deserves to be lashed to death as you are defending, then I want no part of it.  You and Sunni and the other guy can all go, well someplace I'm not.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Do you know what is going on inside Pakistan?  Yemen?  Afganistan?   Iran?   How is that better than Saudi Arabia, Esmeralda?
> ...



I'd be happy to.  Let's start with Yemen.  I will have to go back and get the other links to cover all these nations but I have facts here and these are hard to deny.   To be clear I didn't say these nations were worse than Saudi Arabia but they are no better, Esmeralda. Also I believe you when you say you have visited these nations and had wonderful experiences.  I do know the Muslim people can be wonderful hosts.  This still does not negate the fact that they are living in denial about the madness happening within their countries. 

First link - Yemen
Human rights in Yemen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The situation for Human Rights in Yemen is rather poor. The security forces have been responsible for torture, inhumane treatment and even extrajudicial executions.[1] But according to the Embassy of Yemen, in recent years there has been some improvement, with the government signing several international human rights treaties, and even appointing a woman, Dr. Wahiba Fara&#8217;a, to the role of Minister of the State of Human Rights.[2] Other sources state that many problems persist alongside allegations that these reforms have not been fully implemented and that abuses still run rampant, especially in the areas of women's rights, freedom of the press, torture and police brutality.[3] There are arbitrary arrests of citizens, especially in the south, as well as arbitrary searches of homes. Prolonged pretrial detention is a serious problem, and judicial corruption, inefficiency, and executive interference undermine due process. Freedom of speech, the press and religion are all restricted.[1]

Note*  Yemen is the worst abuser - for child marriages - in the world.

Next link- Pakistan - human rights abuses

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Pakistan

Religious intolerance against Pakistani Christians by Islamists[edit]Controversial blasphemy laws[edit]In Pakistan, 1.5% of the population are Christian. Pakistani law mandates that any "blasphemies" of the Quran are to be met with punishment. On July 28, 1994, Amnesty International urged Pakistan's Prime Minister, Benazir Bhutto to change the law because it was being used to terrorize religious minorities. She tried, but was unsuccessful. However, she modified the laws to make them more moderate. Her changes were reversed by the Nawaz Sharif administration which was backed by Religious/Political parties.

Here is a list of some notable incidents involving blasphemy accusations:

Ayub Masih, a Christian, was convicted of blasphemy and sentenced to death in 1998. He was accused by a neighbor of stating that he supported British writer, Salman Rushdie, author of The Satanic Verses. Lower appeals courts upheld the conviction. However, before the Pakistan Supreme Court, his lawyer was able to prove that the accuser had used the conviction to force Mashi's family off their land and then acquired control of the property. Masih has been released.[5]

On October 28, 2001 in Lahore, Pakistan, Islamic militants killed 15 Christians at a church. On September 25, 2002 two terrorists entered the "Peace and Justice Institute", Karachi, where they separated Muslims from the Christians, and then executed eight Christians by shooting them in the head.[citation needed]

In 2001, Pervaiz Masih, Head Master of a Christian High School in Sialkot was arrested on false blasphemy charges by the owner of another school in the vicinity.

On September 25, 2002, unidentified gunmen shot dead seven people at a Christian charity in Karachi's central business district. They entered the third-floor offices of the Institute for Peace and Justice (IPJ) and shot their victims in the head. All of the victims were Pakistani Christians. Karachi police chief Tariq Jamil said the victims had their hands tied and their mouths had been covered with tape. Pakistani Christians have alleged that they have "become increasingly victimised since the launch of the US-led international war on terror."[6]

In November 2005, 3,000 militant Islamists attacked Christians in Sangla Hill in Pakistan and destroyed Roman Catholic, Salvation Army and United Presbyterian churches. The attack was over allegations of violation of blasphemy laws by a Pakistani Christian named Yousaf Masih. The attacks were widely condemned by some political parties in Pakistan.[7] However, Pakistani Christians have expressed disappointment that they have not received justice. Samson Dilawar, a parish priest in Sangla Hill, has said that the police have not committed to trial any of the people who were arrested for committing the assaults, and that the Pakistani government did not inform the Christian community that a judicial inquiry was underway by a local judge. He continued to say that Muslim clerics "make hateful speeches about Christians" and "continue insulting Christians and our faith".[8]

In February 2006, churches and Christian schools were targeted in protests over the publications of the Jyllands-Posten cartoons in Denmark, leaving two elderly women injured and many homes and properties destroyed. Some of the mobs were stopped by police.[9]

In August 2006, a church and Christian homes were attacked in a village outside of Lahore, Pakistan in a land dispute. Three Christians were seriously injured and one missing after some 35 Muslims burned buildings, desecrated Bibles and attacked Christians.[10]

On September 22, 2006, a Pakistani Christian named Shahid Masih was arrested and jailed for allegedly violating Islamic "blasphemy laws" in Pakistan. He is presently held in confinement and has expressed fear of reprisals by Islamic Fundamentalists.[11]

On August 1, 2009, nearly 40 houses and a church in Gojra were torched on the suspicion that Quran had been burnt there. While police watched, 8 victims were burned alive, 4 of them women, one aged 7. Eighteen more were injured.

In 2012 a young Christian woman, Rimsha Masih, was arrested on blasphemy charge, but released after a few weeks in high security lock-up as a result of international outrage.[12]

On March 9, 2013, two days after Sawan Masih, a Christian, was accused of blasphemy a mob of two thousand Muslims torched over 200 homes and two churches. Masih was sentenced to death the following year.[13]

In April 2014 a Christian couple from Gojra, Shafqat Emmanuel and Shagufta Kausar, received death sentences.[14]

Based, in part, on such incidents, Pakistan was recommended by the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) in May 2006 to be designated as a "Country of Particular Concern" (CPC) by the Department of State.[10]

Link to Afghanistan - Taliban treatment of women
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban_treatment_of_women

Afghan women were forced to wear the burqa at all times in public, because, according to one Taliban spokesman, "the face of a woman is a source of corruption" for men not related to them.[3] In a systematic segregation sometimes referred to as gender apartheid, women were not allowed to work, they were not allowed to be educated after the age of eight, and until then were permitted only to study the Qur'an.

Women seeking an education were forced to attend underground schools, where they and their teachers risked execution if caught.[4][5] They were not allowed to be treated by male doctors unless accompanied by a male chaperone, which led to illnesses remaining untreated. They faced public flogging and execution for violations of the Taliban's laws.[6][7] The Taliban allowed and in some cases encouraged marriage for girls under the age of 16. Amnesty International reported that 80% of Afghan marriages were considered to be arranged by force.[8][when?]

NOTE*  80% of all marriages in Afghanistan are by force.

 Iran link - Domestic violence against women in Iran

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_in_Iran

In 2004 Dr. Ghazi Tabatabaei, a renowned Iranian sociologist, led a study of domestic violence for a joint project undertaken by the Women's Center for Presidential Advisory, Ministry of Higher Education and The Interior Ministry. Other noted scholars, professionals, psychologists and socialists participated in the study of the capital cities in Iran's 28 provinces that resulted after several years in 32 volumes of results. The findings from questionnaires included the following areas of focus: violence towards women and children, marriages and remarriages, divorce, the effect of education and work on violence and family issues.[3]

The 32 volume findings are available only to scholars and researchers at the Center for Research in Tehran and have been shared with governmental lawmakers and agencies. The study of Iran, a diverse country of many ethnical and cultural communities, resulted in varied results by province, and particularly different the further that women lived from Tehran, the capital of Iran. This could be attributed to the lack of higher education, economics, and dominance of religion.[3]

From the study:

66% married women in Iran are subjected to some kind of domestic violence in the first year of their marriage, either by their husbands or by their in-laws.
All married women who were participants in this study in Iran have experienced 7.4% of the 9 categories of abuse.
The more children in a family, the more likely domestic violence will occur towards women.

9.63% of women in the study reported wishing their husbands would die, as a result of the abuse they have experienced.[3]
____________________________
These nations are not my idea of safe living conditions for women and children but I respect your right to disagree with me, Esmeralda. 

 - Jeremiah


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

I will respond to Sunni Man's points one by one and prove why he has no point. 

1) The woman driving ban in Saudi Arabia has everything to do with Islam as it was ordered by the Wahabbi Clerics through a Fatwa banning women from driving.  The punishment for driving is flogging as noted in Aris's newslink.  Free Press.  see article at bottom ...

2) The woman is receiving the lashes as a result of the issued fatwa for flogging ( if a woman drives ) and not as a result of her having had an alleged dispute with officers / resisting arrest.  

3)  The Saudi woman was driving by herself.  The protest was about women driving by themselves.  Without a male companion.    There is more than one Islamic nation that forbids women traveling alone and the Taliban in Afganistan and Pakistan would not permit a woman to drive either.  

4)  Saudi Arabia does not set the rules for driving punishments or the rules for Islamic Law.  The Wahabbi Muslim Clerics do.  It is all tied into Islam. 

5)  Saudi Arabia is the home of Mecca which is the Vatican for Muslims as Roudy pointed out.  Saudi Arabia funds the Islamic indoctrination of American students through building, financing and paying for Islamic learning centers & Professors salaries.   80% of the Mosques in the USA are Wahabbi and the Saudis are not our friends.  Neither is Islam. imo.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/04/25/360078/driving-costs-saudi-woman-150-lashes/

Clip from article: 

There is no specific law to prevent women from driving in the kingdom, however, women simply cannot apply for driving licenses and some have been arrested for driving. 

Saudi Arabia is the only country in the world where women are prohibited from driving. The medieval ban is a religious fatwa imposed by the country&#8217;s Wahhabi clerics. If women get behind the wheel in the kingdom, they may be arrested, sent to court and even flogged. 

Supporters of the ban say allowing women to drive will threaten public morality and encourage them to mix freely in public. 

_____________________________________
NOTE*****  There is no specific law to prevent women from driving in the kingdom.  The problem is with the Muslim Wahabbi religious clerics who imposed a religious fatwa on driving!  Their punishment?   150 lashes!   The problem?    These Muslim Clerics following Islam.   Get it?   Got it?  Good!


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## bianco (Apr 29, 2014)

Votto said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Can anyone imagine a woman being lashed in the civilized world like this?  What is the big deal about women driving?  They drive all around the world, and the authorities don't stop them unless they have committed a traffic infraction.,.
> ...



Muslim Indonesia has stoning to death laws, ...and flogs and jails homosexuals, and others.

Other Muslim countries also flog women and men, stone women to death...and hang homosexuals.

Muslim countries...baaah!
You'll never catch me ever setting foot in one.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkmx-1CEVX0 [/ame]


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 29, 2014)

I believe Sunni man was speaking about women drivers who don't need a companion.  These Saudi women want to drive like everyone else, travel like everyone else.  By themselves.


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## Desperado (Apr 29, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> > Did anyone read the article?
> ...



Where did it say "whipped to death"
From the article:
A woman in Saudi Arabia has been sentenced this week to *150 lashes and eight months in jail *for driving and striking police officers who arrested her, news websites in the kingdom have reported.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

Massive unemployment, illegals flooding across our southern boarder, multi trillion dollar debt, economy still in the toilet, epidemic number of suicides in our military, etc, etc, etc.

But forget all of that stuff,....... let's focus on the banning of women drivers in Saudi Arabia.   ..


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## Sally (Apr 29, 2014)

Desperado said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Desperado said:
> ...



I don't think anyone here would want to be lashed.  I wonder how this woman will survive 150 lashes.  Here is the story of a man who was lashed.

'My whole back felt like it was on fire': As a British teacher faces 40 lashes, one man speaks out | Mail Online


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## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

Sally said:


> I don't think anyone here would want to be lashed.  I wonder how this woman will survive 150 lashes.  Here is the story of a man who was lashed.
> 
> 'My whole back felt like it was on fire': As a British teacher faces 40 lashes, one man speaks out | Mail Online


The guy broke the law.......was found guilty in a court of law.....and received punishment for his crime.

I fail to see the problem??    ..


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## ScienceRocks (Apr 29, 2014)

Yet we WHITE MALE PIGS here in America are sexist!!! Even with the fact that women can become senator, congresswoman, take any job and have their own clubs and colleges.

Yet the real sexist are in the middle east can do as they damn well please. WOW.

What a world I live on!


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## Sally (Apr 29, 2014)

Matthew said:


> Yet we WHITE MALE PIGS here in America are sexist!!! Even with the fact that women can become senator, congresswoman, take any job and have their own clubs and colleges.
> 
> Yet the real sexist are in the middle east can do as they damn well please. WOW.
> 
> What a world I live on!



I am willing to bet, Mathew, that most Muslim women in the U.S. are happy to be here where they can follow their hearts when it comes to the profession of their choice.  I know in my neighborood there are many female Iranian Muslim dentists.  This is certainly unlike the Muslim husband who cut his wife's fingers off because she wanted to get educated.


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## Mr. H. (Apr 29, 2014)

I hope they weren't long and luxurious lashes.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

I will try to delineate my points again about this thread.

1) The women driving ban in Saudi Arabia has nothing to do with Islam......it's a cultural thing with the Saudi people.

2) The woman is receiving the lashes for assulting the policeman.......not driving.

3) No other muslim country denies a woman the right to drive.......and there is over 50 muslim countries.

4) Saudi Arabia does not set the rules for Islamic law or behavior.

5) Saudi Arabia is the only muslim country that is ran by the religious sect called Wahhabism.

The haters will be here shortly.......1, 2, 3,


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## Againsheila (Apr 29, 2014)

Desperado said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Desperado said:
> ...



Do you really believe anyone can survive 150 lashes?


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## Againsheila (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Massive unemployment, illegals flooding across our southern boarder, multi trillion dollar debt, economy still in the toilet, epidemic number of suicides in our military, etc, etc, etc.
> 
> But forget all of that stuff,....... let's focus on the banning of women drivers in Saudi Arabia.   ..



This thread is about a woman driver in Saudi Arabia being sentenced to 150 lashes.  There are other threads to talk about unemployment, illegals, our debt and our economy. Feel free to join them.  Meanwhile, it would be nice if you would condemn the slow death of a woman for driving or resisting arrest.


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## Againsheila (Apr 29, 2014)

Sally said:


> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



I don't think anyone, even the strongest man alive, can survive 150 lashes.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> This thread is about a woman driver in Saudi Arabia being sentenced to 150 lashes.  There are other threads to talk about unemployment, illegals, our debt and our economy. Feel free to join them.  Meanwhile, it would be nice if you would condemn the slow death of a woman for driving or resisting arrest.


Quit being such a drama queen.

The woman was sentenced to receive lashes.......not a death sentence.    ..


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## HenryBHough (Apr 29, 2014)

And those Muslim _*LOVE*_ their lashes....don't they?

_Clear why you'd be so adamantly opposed to their ever getting their hands on a gun._


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## Sally (Apr 29, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Massive unemployment, illegals flooding across our southern boarder, multi trillion dollar debt, economy still in the toilet, epidemic number of suicides in our military, etc, etc, etc.
> ...



My goodness, Sheila, is that what the sociopath is whining about.  Apparently he forgets that he is on a Middle East forum and not on a forum where you discuss happenings in the U.S.  Does anyone think that the sociopath would even have mentioned the enormous amount of crimes that his fellow Muslims have commited in Europe.  Maybe he should go over there and become an Imam in one of the European jails to give these criminals some Islamic solace.  Additionally, do you think the sociopath would even mention the honor killings going on in the Muslim world (and even here and in Europe) where young girls are murdered for alegedly bringing shame to their family?  Speaking of illegal immigration, perhaps the sociopath can supply new prayer rugs and Korans for those that were lost when his newly adopted brethren crossed the border illegally.  Perhaps he can beg the Border Patrol for a supply.


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## toastman (Apr 29, 2014)

Only a sick fuck like Sunni Troll would justify lashing a woman 150 times.

Disgusting society, disgusting people.


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## Roudy (Apr 29, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> HenryBHough said:
> 
> 
> > The only ADMITTED Muslim.......
> ...


It is against Islam (HARAM, which means a sin and punishable) for a Muslim to say anything negative about another Muslim in front of, or exchange for a Muslim.  That's why they are always mum no matter how heinous or disgusting the crime by fellow Muslims.


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## Roudy (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think anyone, even the strongest man alive, can survive 150 lashes.
> ...


Islam, where brain cells go to die.


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## Againsheila (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > This thread is about a woman driver in Saudi Arabia being sentenced to 150 lashes.  There are other threads to talk about unemployment, illegals, our debt and our economy. Feel free to join them.  Meanwhile, it would be nice if you would condemn the slow death of a woman for driving or resisting arrest.
> ...



Come back after you've been lashed 150 times and tell me all about it.

No one has ever survived 150 lashes.  It's a death sentence.


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## Againsheila (Apr 29, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > HenryBHough said:
> ...



If you do not speak out against it, you can only be in favor of it.  If good men do nothing, evil wins, every time.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 29, 2014)

*How many lashes can one man stand?*

It depends on how you're lashed. It's very unlikely that a person will die from his sentence if it is administered in the usual Saudi Arabian way&#8212;i.e., broken up into weekly bouts of 50 lashings each. 

(Women are given 20 to 30 at a time.)

Saudi Arabia does have some safeguards to protect the health of the person being lashed. For example, doctors inspect the medical condition of a prisoner ahead of time to determine whether he or she is fit to be lashed. (There tends not to be a post-lashing inspection.) 

And according to Islamic law, a flogger is supposed to hold a copy of the Quran under his arm to curb his range of motion and ensure that the strokes are not too powerful. 

Usually, the lashes are applied to the back, but they can also land on the legs and buttocks, according to firsthand reports. (The more varied the blows, the less likely they are to cause serious damage; hitting the same spot over and over increases the likelihood of breaking skin and causing infection.)

How many lashes can someone endure before dying?


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## Desperado (Apr 29, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



Actually yes,   if it is administered in the usual Saudi Arabian way&#8212;i.e., broken up into weekly bouts of 50 lashings each. (Women are given 20 to 30 at a time.) But a string of regular punishments administered over a span of seven months could still be dangerous. After just one round of lashings, he could suffer lacerated or bruised skin. More serious problems are likely to arise after repeated, weekly abuse&#8212;including nerve damage and infection. 
How many lashes can someone endure before dying?


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## Roudy (Apr 29, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


Wow, that was a rational answer.  Do they legally marry 8 and 9 year olds in NY and Chicago?

Sounds like the animals marry and have sex with 8 and 9 year old girls to me:

Yemen investigates reported 8-year-old child bride death | Al Jazeera America

Yemen is investigating the reported death of an 8-year-old girl from injuries suffered on the first night of her marriage to a man in his 40s, the government said Friday, as European Union foreign policy chief Catherin Ashton called the reports "appalling" and urged Yemen to ban child marriage.

Yemen's human rights minister Hooria Mashour has asked parliament to pass a law setting a minimum age for marriage, she told the BBC on Friday.

Rights activist Ahmed al-Quraishi, chairman of child rights' organization Siyaj, said activists who went to the northwestern Hajjah province had collected information that practically confirms the case, "We in Siyaj are nearly sure of the girl's death, and that authorities are trying to cover up the issue."


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## Roudy (Apr 29, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...


Actually Saudi Arabia is a monarchy, remember? It's called the KINGDOM of Saudi Arabia, and they have a King, and Royal Family.  And Saudi Arabia is the center of Islam, no Muslim ever doubts that.  Jerusalem is the center of Judaism and Jerusalem is also Israel.  The Vatican might not be the center of Christianity, but it is definitely the center of Catholicism. You cannot go to Mecca without the Saudi govt.'s stamp of approval.  The Saudi Govt. and police forces are in total control of Mecca and Medina, and dictate who can and cannot go there.  You are exhibiting your absolute ignorance again.


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## Roudy (Apr 29, 2014)

Desperado said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Desperado said:
> ...


But seriously does it matter whether someone survives or doesn't survive such savagery? 

It of course depends on who is administering it, and what method is used.  For example one Islamic method is for the person doing the lashing to hold a Koran under the arm, so as to reduce the strength of the arm, as well as make the lashing "from Allah".  Other methods are so severe, it will cause a person to die after 20 lashes.  

Usually for these types of situations they bribe an asshole in charge, who will then reduce the severity of the lashing, or number of lashes, or better, totally remove the punishment.  For the right price you can get away with almost anything.  Cronyism and corruption rule the entire region.


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## Hossfly (Apr 29, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> *How many lashes can one man stand?*
> 
> It depends on how you're lashed. It's very unlikely that a person will die from his sentence if it is administered in the usual Saudi Arabian way&#8212;i.e., broken up into weekly bouts of 50 lashings each.
> 
> ...


By George, that is one humane punishment. Why, under those guidelines a strong healthy woman should be able to take about a thousand lashes and not even get her hair messed up.


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## Roudy (Apr 29, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > *How many lashes can one man stand?*
> ...


Makes water boarding look like a picnic.  LOL


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## MHunterB (May 1, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > What is heartwarming about this story is that although this Saudi woman has no one amongst her willing to speak up for her?   Thousands of miles away - on another continent  - a Jewish woman writes on her behalf and asks for justice on a message board called USMB.
> ...



Jeri isn't Jewish.  And most women feel empathy for their sisters, no matter where they live or what their religion......  
Only a turdish troll like the sunnithing would mock others for being concerned about strangers.


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## ahmadkhan12 (May 1, 2014)

Typical that the Islam haters gloss over the part where it says the woman was arrested for striking the Police officers.


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## Sunni Man (May 1, 2014)

ahmadkhan12 said:


> Typical that the Islam haters gloss over the part where it says the woman was arrested for striking the Police officers.


Yea, they have been told about that at least a dozen times..........but haters gotta hate.   ..


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## Againsheila (May 1, 2014)

ahmadkhan12 said:


> Typical that the Islam haters gloss over the part where it says the woman was arrested for striking the Police officers.



Islam haters?  Have you read Sunni's posts?  The man has no feelings whatsoever about this woman, indeed, believes she deserves it as all women should "know their place".  

Sorry, but them's fighting words in my family.

Also, even if she did resist arrest, do you really think she deserves 150 lashes and 8 years in jail?  Whipping is barbaric.


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## Sunni Man (May 1, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> ahmadkhan12 said:
> 
> 
> > Typical that the Islam haters gloss over the part where it says the woman was arrested for striking the Police officers.
> ...


She did more than resist arrest......she hit a police officer.

I recently saw a cop show there some guy punched a cop and received 20 years.

So her 8 yr sentence doesn't sound out of bounds.   .


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## Againsheila (May 1, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > ahmadkhan12 said:
> ...



The 150 lashes does.


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## Sunni Man (May 1, 2014)

Personally, I neither condone or condemn the sentence given to the woman.

It's their country and their laws.

And in reality......none of our business.  .


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## Desperado (May 1, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> ahmadkhan12 said:
> 
> 
> > Typical that the Islam haters gloss over the part where it says the woman was arrested for striking the Police officers.
> ...



Im not condoning the punishment just want to set the record straight.
According to the article it was 8 months not 8 years in jail.
Do I think it the punishment is Excessive, Yes, I think a simple fine would have sufficed.
However, it is their country and it is their rules.


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## Book of Jeremiah (May 1, 2014)

MHunterB said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



That's right, Marge. I'm a Christian.  I was speaking of Sally writing the OP when I said thousands of miles away on another continent a Jewish woman writes a post - on her behalf - in other words - a Jewish woman cared more about this Saudi Muslims womans' fate than some of her Muslim brethren who should have spoke up for her but didn't.   Very sad.  - Jeri  p.s. I have asked Sunni in the past to not refer to Sally as a Juden because it is a term that was used in Germany by Nazis - it's a painful reminder - yet he persists in doing it.


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## aris2chat (May 1, 2014)

ahmadkhan12 said:


> Typical that the Islam haters gloss over the part where it says the woman was arrested for striking the Police officers.



She was arrested for driving.  She struck the officer resisting arrest.  The extra lashes were for the resistance.

Saudi is the only country where women are not allowed to drive, even though there is no law on the books against it.  A fatwa was issued.

>>A conservative Saudi Arabian cleric has said women who drive risk damaging their ovaries and bearing children with clinical problems, countering activists who are trying to end the Islamic kingdoms male-only driving rules.<<

Women who drive produce children with mental defects according to the cleric


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## Sunni Man (May 1, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> I have asked Sunni in the past to not refer to Sally as a Juden because it is a term that was used in Germany by Nazis - it's a painful reminder - yet he persists in doing it.


 Juden is just the regular word used in the German language to describe a Jewish person.

I don't understand why some people here are all upset about it's use??   .


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## Roudy (May 1, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > I have asked Sunni in the past to not refer to Sally as a Juden because it is a term that was used in Germany by Nazis - it's a painful reminder - yet he persists in doing it.
> ...


No actually, you lie again.  Juden is the derogatory word Nazis used for Jews.  Besides, why would an American Muslim use a German word to describe the Jews?  

It's seems like Heil hitler has been updated to Allah Akbar. 

*Juden raus!*

Definition: "Jews out!" (German) - A dreaded phrase shouted by the Nazis throughout the ghettos when they were trying to force Jews from their hiding places.

Nice going, Sunni.  And you wonder why Islamists are also called IslamoNazis.


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## theDoctorisIn (May 1, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



Well, no.

The implication is clear by its usage, but the word "Juden" itself is a literal translation of "Jews" in the German language.


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## Roudy (May 1, 2014)

You see, Sunni, this is what the animals do when women drive cars:

*Saudi Arabia: Woman Sentenced For Driving A Car*

CAIRO &#8212; A Saudi woman was sentenced Tuesday to be lashed 10 times with a whip for defying the kingdom's prohibition on female drivers.


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## Book of Jeremiah (May 1, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > I have asked Sunni in the past to not refer to Sally as a Juden because it is a term that was used in Germany by Nazis - it's a painful reminder - yet he persists in doing it.
> ...



You're not German.


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## Roudy (May 1, 2014)

theDoctorisIn said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...


Like I said, is Sunni now German?  Or is he just using the word Juden to rile up and bait members. Figure it out in your own.


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## Roudy (May 1, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...


His avatar says "Muslim American". LOL. As if.


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## Sunni Man (May 1, 2014)

theDoctorisIn said:


> The implication is clear by its usage, but the word "Juden" itself is a literal translation of "Jews" in the German language.


That is what I have been saying all along!!    .     

Thanks........


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## Book of Jeremiah (May 1, 2014)

I believe Roudy has hit the nail on the head here.  I wanted to thank Aris for clarifying the reason  for the no driving restriction on Saudi women and lashes for driving....  It is an Islamic fatwa issued by the Wahabbi clerics.


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## Roudy (May 1, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > The implication is clear by its usage, but the word "Juden" itself is a literal translation of "Jews" in the German language.
> ...


What you've been saying is that you're okay with Saudis punishing and lashing women who drive.  Also, you seem to have an affinity for the German word for Jews.  2+ 2 = ?


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## Sunni Man (May 1, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Sunni Man said:
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> > Jeremiah said:
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Actually, I lived in Germany for a couple of years when I was a kid.

My father was in the U.S. Army and my family was stationed there.  .


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## aris2chat (May 1, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > I have asked Sunni in the past to not refer to Sally as a Juden because it is a term that was used in Germany by Nazis - it's a painful reminder - yet he persists in doing it.
> ...




Really?  Sunni, you did not strike me as that dense.  You couldn't figure that any german term regarding jews might be found offensive?  This is not a primarily german language board.  It does not matter than some can speak in several tongues, the majority use english.

>>2. A slang term, used in much the same way "Jewish" is used by Americans. It signifies greed, and/or cheapness. <<

>>German for "Jew".
Leet-speak version of "jew", which is already used as an insult to anbody when talking in leet. <<


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## Book of Jeremiah (May 1, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



So was my husband.   He has never called a jewish person a Juden!  Imagine that.


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## theDoctorisIn (May 1, 2014)

Roudy said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



Of course he's using it to rile you up. But it's still a literal translation.


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## Book of Jeremiah (May 1, 2014)

Thank you for your honesty, Doc.


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## Sunni Man (May 1, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> I believe Roudy has hit the nail on the head here.  I wanted to thank Aris for clarifying the reason  for the no driving restriction on Saudi women and lashes for driving....  It is an Islamic fatwa issued by the Wahabbi clerics.


Saudi Arabia is the only muslims country where Wahabbism is the dominate religious sect.

And no other Islamic country or group of muslims is obliged to follow a Wahabbi Imam's fatwa or ruling.    .


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## Book of Jeremiah (May 1, 2014)

Try America.  80% of the mosques are Wahabbi and the Islamic Learning Centers built on college and university campuses throughout the USA are funded 100% by Saudi Wahabbists.   It's in our own backyard now which is another good reason to get on the telephone with your representatives, Senators, call the Governor too - send them a link to the story on the Saudi woman and tell them you do not want Sharia law used in our courtrooms - to pass American law for American courtrooms in their states.   Thanks for reading.


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## Sunni Man (May 1, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Try America.  80% of the mosques are Wahabbi and the Islamic Learning Centers built on college and university campuses throughout the USA are funded 100% by Saudi Wahabbists.


You are 1000% wrong..   .


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## JWBooth (May 1, 2014)

No THAT'S how you deal with women drivers.


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## Againsheila (May 1, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > I have asked Sunni in the past to not refer to Sally as a Juden because it is a term that was used in Germany by Nazis - it's a painful reminder - yet he persists in doing it.
> ...



We're not speaking German, we're speaking English.


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## Againsheila (May 1, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



Hitler and the Muslims go way back.  

Muslim Brotherhood & Adolf Hitler

During World War II, members of the Muslim Brotherhood spied for Hitler's Nazis in the Middle East and fought for Hitler as Nazi troops in two specially formed Muslim Waffen-SS Handschar Divisions ('Handschar' is German for scimitar, the curved saber used by the Muslim troops of the Ottoman empire).


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## aris2chat (May 1, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



I'm sure a number of us have lived in a variety of countries but since this is US message board and every uses english a primary language when posting there was no need to use a german word that can when not on a primarily german language board is considered derogatory. 
If anyone knew someone who was in any of the german camps, had someone who died in the camps or have ever visited the camps since then, or who have read about the camps, would find the use of the german term offensive.
Calling some a nazi or a group that do not subscribe to any of their philosophy is insulting.  You just don't need to do it.

We try to use this forum for social discussion not a insult or war zone.  If someone is a masochist or sadists there are forums specifically for that.

Anyone with a modicum of common sense would not use german reference that could be related to the hitler years when speak to or about someone of jewish heritage (gypsy, gay, catholic, etc.) or someone who fought against it.

Some people are more sensitive or just have a few days when they are.  It is just not necessary to use that type of slang or terms like shy1*ck etc.
Islam is supposed to be a religion of peace, so speak softly and gently to others.  Bring that peace here.  Practice makes perfect.


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## Roudy (May 1, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...


And? Man...who are you kidding.  Lots of people lived or visited lots of countries. Why do you lie so much?


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## Roudy (May 1, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...


Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage


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## Sunni Man (May 1, 2014)

............................................^^^ My personal juden troll Roudy is back!!   ..


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## Roudy (May 1, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> ............................................^^^ My personal juden troll Roudy is back!!   ..


Was I talking to you?  Obviously not. Go sit in the corner.

Speaking of Trolls, been staking any women lately?  LOL.


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## toastman (May 1, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> ............................................^^^ My personal juden troll Roudy is back!!   ..



   

Sunni Man calling someone else a troll, now imagine that.

So you still stalking women online?


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## toastman (May 1, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



One word: Taqiya


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## toastman (May 1, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



Even acter people ask him to stop using the word, he continues.
Pro Palestinian posters even tell him to stop, but the guy is just in redibly immature and childish. 
Pretty pathetic when you remember that he's a grown man with kids.

He's also a massive troll. Ever since he came back to the forum after crying like a baby and leaving because he lost his rep meter, he's taken trolling to a whole new level. What can I say, he's a huge loser  true story


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## Hossfly (May 1, 2014)

theDoctorisIn said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...


Juden = Jewish (people)

Jude = Jew (singular)
        or
Jude = ****

Juden = Jews

English or German: Juden, Jew or Jude are derogatory terms.

http://en.bab.la/dictionary/german-english/juden


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## HenryBHough (May 1, 2014)

?????


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## aris2chat (May 2, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDdI7GhZSQA
> 
> 
> ?????



Hey Julian didn't sound right


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## Roudy (May 2, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


Or maybe he's just a misunderstood Beatles fan?  

[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=NTFkegYGE1Y]The Beatles - Hey Jude (Original Version) - YouTube[/ame]


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## Sunni Man (May 2, 2014)

toastman said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > ............................................^^^ My personal juden troll Roudy is back!!   ..
> ...


Now Roudy's butt buddy Toastman troll has joined in stalking the Sunni Man.   ..


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## Book of Jeremiah (May 2, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDdI7GhZSQA
> 
> 
> ?????



Isn't it a lovely song, Henry?  Hey Jude?    It has a lovely story that goes with it.  The song was written by one of my favorite Jewish artists, Paul McCartney.  

 He wrote it for John Lennon's son and the reason he wrote it is because he felt a deep pain for the neglect Lennon showed to the young boy.   Paul was like a surrogate father throughout the boys life.  As for Lennons neglect -   It broke Pauls heart so he wrote the song for him.   I learned that from a dear friend and since then Paul has become one of my favorite people for his kind heart.  He truly is a lovely person.  

The Jews are such talented people!!!     

I found this about the song - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hey_Jude

In 1968, John Lennon and his wife Cynthia Lennon separated due to John's affair with Yoko Ono. Soon afterwards, Paul McCartney drove out to visit Cynthia and Lennon's son, Julian. "We'd been very good friends for millions of years and I thought it was a bit much for them suddenly to be personae non gratae and out of my life," McCartney said.[5] Cynthia Lennon recalled, "I was truly surprised when, one afternoon, Paul arrived on his own. I was touched by his obvious concern for our welfare ... On the journey down he composed 'Hey Jude' in the car. I will never forget Paul's gesture of care and concern in coming to see us."[6]

The song's original title was "Hey Jules," and it was intended to comfort Julian Lennon from the stress of his parents' divorce. McCartney said, "I started with the idea 'Hey Jules,' which was Julian, don't make it bad, take a sad song and make it better. Hey, try and deal with this terrible thing. I knew it was not going to be easy for him. I always feel sorry for kids in divorces ... I had the idea [for the song] by the time I got there. I changed it to 'Jude' because I thought that sounded a bit better."[5] Julian Lennon discovered the song had been written for him almost twenty years later. He remembered being closer to McCartney than to his father: "Paul and I used to hang about quite a bit&#8212;more than Dad and I did. We had a great friendship going and there seems to be far more pictures of me and Paul playing together at that age than there are pictures of me and my dad."[7]

Although McCartney originally wrote the song for Julian Lennon, John Lennon thought it had actually been written for him:[8]

_____________________________
It is quite amazing to me that Lennon thought the song was written for him.  It speaks of his blindness towards his own first born son.   Sad.


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## toastman (May 2, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



Do you even know what stalking is you psychopath? 

What you are doing to Sally is, you Muslim freak.

Responding to someones posts is not stalking, specially since I post here all the time.

You really beed help Sunni Troll 
You're completely losing your mind


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## Roudy (May 2, 2014)

The perfect cure for stopping Sunni trolling:


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## Book of Jeremiah (May 2, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Do you even know what stalking is you psychopath?
> ...



You are not permitted to speak about bannings or talk about people being banned and so on.  It is against board rules.


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## Sunni Man (May 2, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> You are not permitted to speak about bannings or talk about people being banned and so on.  It is against board rules.


I wasn't talking about her......I was just referencing her status.    .


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