# ABORTION and MEDICARE



## Yukon (Dec 3, 2009)

Americans are going to have universal health care (Medicare for all) provided by the government. It's going to happen next year. Get used to it. 

Living in Canada we have had Medicare for over 40 years and it works quite well. Our Medicare system pays for *ABORTION* which is deemed as a medical procedure not a crime. Amercan's new medicare bill too will cover *abortion*, after all 85 % of private insurance plans pay for it and President Obama has said Mediacre will be equal to private insurance. 

How do you feel about a woman being able to have an *abortion* (medical procedure not a crime) which will be paid for by tax dollars - your tax dollars? I'd like to read your thoughts on this subject and please cast your vote in my poll.


Thank you,
Yukon (retired Roman Catholic Priest)


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## Alvin (Dec 3, 2009)

From a purely mechanical point of view, it is a medical proceedure, and not one that is banned by federal law.
So that is that question answered. However I get the feeling that that isn't quite the answer you were looking for.

If you are asking about the moral, ethical, or religious view of the taxpayer paying for abortions? - Well that is the weakest arguement of all for preventing this proceedure being performed.
Think about it, Insulin (non synthetic) is harvested from pigs. That'll piss off the Muslim tax payers. How about every blood transfusion? - That'll piss off the Jehova's Witnesses tax payers. What about serving meat to the patients? - Vegan tax payers will object to that.

That's why when setting up things like this you rely on medical advice, not moral advice.


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## Luissa (Dec 3, 2009)

medicare pays for viagra and penis pumps, it can pay for abortions.


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## Zoom-boing (Dec 3, 2009)

You want viagra, a penis pump, a vagina restoration, an abortion, birth control?  Pay for it yourself.


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## AllieBaba (Dec 3, 2009)

Luissa said:


> medicare pays for viagra and penis pumps, it can pay for abortions.



When was the last time a baby was killed with a penis pump? Is that the purpose of viagra?


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## Yukon (Dec 3, 2009)

It's early yet but the vote is 100% in favour of the procedure being paid for by Medicare. Bravo my enlightened friends. 

Not surprising though one person responded with atypical Conservative, stone-age mental capacity.

Zoom-boing you should consider moving back to the stone-age society of Afghanistan - you'll most certainly feel right at home !


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## Luissa (Dec 3, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > medicare pays for viagra and penis pumps, it can pay for abortions.
> ...



When was the last time a man needed to have sex to survive?
Men don't need viagra or a penis pump.


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## Zoom-boing (Dec 3, 2009)

Yukon said:


> It's early yet but the vote is 100% in favour of the procedure being paid for by Medicare. Bravo my enlightened friends.
> 
> Not surprising though one person responded with the atypical Conservative, stone-age mental capacity.
> 
> Zoom-boing you should consider moving back to the stone-age society of Afghanistan - you'll most certainly feel right at home !



Personal responsibility is not your thing.  Got it.


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## Luissa (Dec 3, 2009)

medicare not paying for abortion would be a big mistake, a girl who cannot afford an abortion is most likely still going to have one anyways but probably not in a safe way. If she does have the baby, what do you think the chances of her dumping that child somewhere is?


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## manu1959 (Dec 3, 2009)

Yukon said:


> Americans are going to have universal health care (Medicare for all) provided by the government. It's going to happen next year. Get used to it.
> 
> Living in Canada we have had Medicare for over 40 years and it works quite well. Our Medicare system pays for *ABORTION* which is deemed as a medical procedure not a crime. Amercan's new medicare bill too will cover *abortion*, after all 85 % of private insurance plans pay for it and President Obama has said Mediacre will be equal to private insurance.
> 
> ...



my tax dollars are used for all sorts of legal things that i find morally and ethically wrong.....

if you don't like it ...move....or vote or act to change it....

as for abortion....i really don't care if a woman wants to kill her human fetus .....


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## Yukon (Dec 3, 2009)

My friends,

I am PRO-CHOICE when it comes to the abortion question. If a woman choses not to permit parasitic fetal tissue to be in her body her than she should, and does, have the absolute moral and legal right to have the tissue removed.

People who want to deny women that right are dangerous to freedom.

Fr. Yukon


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## California Girl (Dec 3, 2009)

Why anyone bothers to respond to Yukon's stupidity is beyond me.


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## Zoom-boing (Dec 3, 2009)

California Girl said:


> Why anyone bothers to respond to Yukon's stupidity is beyond me.



^  Yup.  Apparently I had a case of the stupid today; gotta watch that.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Dec 3, 2009)

Luissa said:


> medicare pays for viagra and penis pumps, it can pay for abortions.



it shouldn't pay for any of those, IMO.   

Taxpayers should not pay for ANY form of elective surgery.   

That means the only time you can get breast augmentation is after surgery for breast cancer.   The only time you can ge an abortion is if your life is in danger from the pregnancy (i know i know doctors have already been show to lie when this is the law).   The only way you can get viagra is...TO BUY IT YOURSELF.


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## Alvin (Dec 3, 2009)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > medicare pays for viagra and penis pumps, it can pay for abortions.
> ...



Or you can pay for it yourself.....


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## Luissa (Dec 3, 2009)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > medicare pays for viagra and penis pumps, it can pay for abortions.
> ...



or if your breast are too big and they cause back problem.


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## uscitizen (Dec 3, 2009)

LMAO.  Medicare would not often pay for an abortion even if offered.
How many 65+ yr old women get pregnant?

Danged idjits.


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## Luissa (Dec 3, 2009)

medicare isn't just for older people, it also covers pregnant women and children PS.


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## uscitizen (Dec 3, 2009)

Medicare pays for viagra because of drug company lobbyists.


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## logical4u (Dec 3, 2009)

Yukon said:


> Americans are going to have universal health care (Medicare for all) provided by the government. It's going to happen next year. Get used to it.
> 
> Living in Canada we have had Medicare for over 40 years and it works quite well. Our Medicare system pays for *ABORTION* which is deemed as a medical procedure not a crime. Amercan's new medicare bill too will cover *abortion*, after all 85 % of private insurance plans pay for it and President Obama has said Mediacre will be equal to private insurance.
> 
> ...



IMHO gov health care is a constitutional infringement and will enslave the population.  Abortion will not be a concern when the gov does a program to control who can and cannot have children (thru forced sterilizations/less expensive medical treatments) based on: where you live, political party, nationality, sexual preference, etc.
As a 'roman catholic priest' you are teaching against church policies and should not claim to belong to a faith that believes: killing innocent children (based on age), is not the right and proper thing to do for people that have chosen (choice) to act irresponsibly.  When you say your prayers tonight, ask Yeshua how many abortions He encouraged.  Shame on you.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 3, 2009)

Luissa said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



What does survival have to do with anything?


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 3, 2009)

Luissa said:


> medicare not paying for abortion would be a big mistake, a girl who cannot afford an abortion is most likely still going to have one anyways but probably not in a safe way. If she does have the baby, what do you think the chances of her dumping that child somewhere is?



So we should fund her killing the baby to make up for her utter lack of morality and humanity, not to mention basic common sense?  And the benefit to us in doing so is . . . ?


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 3, 2009)

Luissa said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



Why would you get a breast augmentation if your breasts are too big?  Do you even read the posts before spewing your "witty" replies?


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 3, 2009)

uscitizen said:


> LMAO.  Medicare would not often pay for an abortion even if offered.
> How many 65+ yr old women get pregnant?
> 
> Danged idjits.



Medicare also covers people on Social Security for disabilities, many of whom are still capable of getting pregnant.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 3, 2009)

uscitizen said:


> Medicare pays for viagra because of drug company lobbyists.



And AARP lobbyists.  Don't forget them.  Every old geezer on their rolls is entitled to a government-funded stiffy, by God.


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## manifold (Dec 3, 2009)

I'd rather pay for some gutter slut's abortion than pay for 18 years of child welfare followed by 40+ years of incarceration.


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## Alvin (Dec 3, 2009)

logical4u said:


> IMHO gov health care is a constitutional infringement and will enslave the population.  Abortion will not be a concern when the gov does a program to control who can and cannot have children (thru forced sterilizations/less expensive medical treatments) based on: where you live, political party, nationality, sexual preference, etc.
> .



Tell me, do you find name brand or generic tinfoil makes the best hat?


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## California Girl (Dec 3, 2009)

manifold said:


> I'd rather pay for some gutter slut's abortion than pay for 18 years of child welfare followed by 40+ years of incarceration.



Great, you pay for it.... as long as I don't have to, that's fine.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Dec 3, 2009)

Luissa said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



that wouldn't be elective surgery IMO  .


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## manifold (Dec 3, 2009)

California Girl said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > I'd rather pay for some gutter slut's abortion than pay for 18 years of child welfare followed by 40+ years of incarceration.
> ...



It's a deal, as long as I don't have to pay for welfare and incarceration.

What do you say?


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## chanel (Dec 3, 2009)

Several states have gotten around the Hyde amendment. But the procedure only costs around 500 bucks. Give up a few hair appts, sneakers, or cable, and there ya go. People who honestly believe it is murder, should not have to foot the bill.

NJ stopped providing free Viagra last year.


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## Alvin (Dec 3, 2009)

chanel said:


> Several states have gotten around the Hyde amendment. But the procedure only costs around 500 bucks. Give up a few hair appts, sneakers, or cable, and there ya go. People who honestly believe it is murder, should not have to foot the bill.
> 
> NJ stopped providing free Viagra last year.



What about pacifists? Do they get out of paying for the military? Or those that believe in legalizing Cannabis? - Do they get out of paying for law enforcement?
Or as I said above, Muslims....


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## chanel (Dec 3, 2009)

Last I checked war and law enforcement was not a personal and elective decision.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 3, 2009)

chanel said:


> Last I checked war and law enforcement was not a personal and elective decision.



It's amazing how supporters of abortion just love to scream about "personal choice" and "keep your laws off my body", but see no hypocrisy in then turning around and making their "personal choice" a community funding issue and putting their bodies ON our wallets.

If abortion is a private matter between a woman and her doctor, then by God, paying for it ought to be, too.


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## Alvin (Dec 4, 2009)

chanel said:


> Last I checked war and law enforcement was not a personal and elective decision.



Neither is paying your taxes. And neither is the programs those taxes go to fund.


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## chanel (Dec 4, 2009)

Welcome to America.  Hey - I heard there was a new medical breakthrough that prevents unwanted pregnancy.  It's called the pill.  99% effective.


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## Alvin (Dec 4, 2009)

Only while you are on it, only if you are not sick, and some antibiotics can have an effect on it's absorbtion.
IUDs are slightly better, but when all else fails, there is always the common condom.

But we aren't talking about prevention. Rather what happens after all of the above fail


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Dec 4, 2009)

Cecilie1200 said:


> chanel said:
> 
> 
> > Last I checked war and law enforcement was not a personal and elective decision.
> ...



Or how it is no longer "personal choice" or "laws off our bodies" when it comes to the health care bill.


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## logical4u (Dec 9, 2009)

Alvin said:


> logical4u said:
> 
> 
> > IMHO gov health care is a constitutional infringement and will enslave the population.  Abortion will not be a concern when the gov does a program to control who can and cannot have children (thru forced sterilizations/less expensive medical treatments) based on: where you live, political party, nationality, sexual preference, etc.
> ...



Yes, I understand, the nazis weren't going to do anything bad either; they were going to help the population and stimulate the economy.....
Please tell me where there are any limits on the gov's power in this health care bill.  If it isn't there, that power WILL be abused, maybe not early in the implementation, but eventually for the gov to gain the power it is constantly trying to grow, it will happen.  Then all the people that have been duped/deceived/lied to will state that they should have known better, I am saying research now, don't wait until your life is controlled by the gov in power.  If protections are not built in, expect abuse.  Read history, it repeats itself...trust gov, get screwed.


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## logical4u (Dec 9, 2009)

Alvin said:


> Only while you are on it, only if you are not sick, and some antibiotics can have an effect on it's absorbtion.
> IUDs are slightly better, but when all else fails, there is always the common condom.
> 
> But we aren't talking about prevention. Rather what happens after all of the above fail



Wouldn't that be considered "choice"?


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## uscitizen (Dec 9, 2009)

uscitizen said:


> LMAO.  Medicare would not often pay for an abortion even if offered.
> How many 65+ yr old women get pregnant?
> 
> Danged idjits.



bump


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## amiam* (Dec 9, 2009)

Yukon said:


> It's early yet but the vote is 100% in favour of the procedure being paid for by Medicare. Bravo my enlightened friends.
> 
> Not surprising though one person responded with atypical Conservative, stone-age mental capacity.
> 
> Zoom-boing you should consider moving back to the stone-age society of Afghanistan - you'll most certainly feel right at home !



Enlightened????????????? You gotta be kidding! I did not vote at all. I found the questions to be a constraint!


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## Jon (Dec 9, 2009)

Luissa said:


> medicare not paying for abortion would be a big mistake, a girl who cannot afford an abortion is most likely still going to have one anyways but probably not in a safe way. If she does have the baby, what do you think the chances of her dumping that child somewhere is?



If she has a back alley abortion and dies as a result of an infection, I say adios to her.

That's just Darwinism at its best.


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## NO!bama08 (Dec 9, 2009)

You're probably right, it will happen next year because we can't stop it. But then it will be time for a good old fashioned ass kicking revolution when real Americans take back this country from the brain-dead idiots running it now. Good luck on those mid-term elections Dems. lol.


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## Big_D (Dec 9, 2009)

Yukon said:


> My friends,
> 
> I am PRO-CHOICE when it comes to the abortion question. If a woman choses not to permit parasitic fetal tissue to be in her body her than she should, and does, have the absolute moral and legal right to have the tissue removed.
> 
> ...



How could you be a retired Roman Catholic priest if you are pro choice?  The catechism clearly states a catholic would _have_ to be prolife.


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## WillowTree (Dec 9, 2009)

Yukon said:


> It's early yet but the vote is 100% in favour of the procedure being paid for by Medicare. Bravo my enlightened friends.
> 
> Not surprising though one person responded with atypical Conservative, stone-age mental capacity.
> 
> Zoom-boing you should consider moving back to the stone-age society of Afghanistan - you'll most certainly feel right at home !



bravo your unenlightened ass. Canada has 30 million idiots living there and doesn't pay for the education and medical care of 30 million illegals,, I wish your mom had opted for Canadian funded abortion. What the hell was she thinking?


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## Harry Dresden (Dec 9, 2009)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4SDHMY9s3A[/ame]


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## Emma (Dec 10, 2009)

Zoom-boing said:


> You want viagra, a penis pump, a vagina restoration, an abortion, birth control?  Pay for it yourself.



Why shouldn't those be included in insurance coverage?


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## AllieBaba (Dec 10, 2009)

Yukon said:


> Americans are going to have universal health care (Medicare for all) provided by the government. It's going to happen next year. Get used to it.
> 
> Living in Canada we have had Medicare for over 40 years and it works quite well. Our Medicare system pays for *ABORTION* which is deemed as a medical procedure not a crime. Amercan's new medicare bill too will cover *abortion*, after all 85 % of private insurance plans pay for it and President Obama has said Mediacre will be equal to private insurance.
> 
> ...



Yukon, per usual, you're an idiot. 

Medicare is health care for the elderly. I don't think they need abortions, since they have to be 65 to qualify.


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## Hinemoa (Dec 10, 2009)

Cecilie1200 said:


> So you're one of these people who think its the womans responsibility to prevent pregnancy? What if the was raped? Does that make her lack morality?


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## AllieBaba (Dec 10, 2009)

Oh please don't go there. We've been there so many times before, and it's always lame.

Rape victims make up 1/1000th of 1 percent of abortionettes.


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## Hinemoa (Dec 10, 2009)

Jon said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > medicare not paying for abortion would be a big mistake, a girl who cannot afford an abortion is most likely still going to have one anyways but probably not in a safe way. If she does have the baby, what do you think the chances of her dumping that child somewhere is?
> ...



Lets make the man who impregnated her pay for it instead.


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## Hinemoa (Dec 10, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Oh please don't go there. We've been there so many times before, and it's always lame.
> 
> Rape victims make up 1/1000th of 1 percent of abortionettes.



and your point?


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## AllieBaba (Dec 10, 2009)

#1, very few rape victims seek abortion. #2, only a tiny percentage of them are unable to attain them in the technical form of a "D&C" from any MD.


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## Hinemoa (Dec 10, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> #1, very few rape victims seek abortion. #2, only a tiny percentage of them are unable to attain them in the technical form of a "D&C" from any MD.



and your point?


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## JW Frogen (Dec 10, 2009)

I support the current abortion laws; some times killing is a necessary evil, or even a greater good.

But if you are going to kill, if you must kill, then you must pay for it, both financially and emotionally.

Killing should never be free.


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## AllieBaba (Dec 10, 2009)

Hinemoa said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > #1, very few rape victims seek abortion. #2, only a tiny percentage of them are unable to attain them in the technical form of a "D&C" from any MD.
> ...



Oh, I get it. You have Tourettes.

The point was yours. Make it or roll over and let Frogen take over.


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## JW Frogen (Dec 10, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> The point was yours. Make it or roll over and let Frogen take over.



Warning: When I give you the best orgasm of your life you may get the best baby going round?

These genes are king.

Kill them if you must, but then do not complain if the rest of your life is mundane.

If Mozart gave up music, it would have been his own fault.


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## Harry Dresden (Dec 10, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Yukon, per usual, you're an idiot.
> 
> Medicare is health care for the elderly. I don't think they need abortions, since they have to be 65 to qualify.



see post 47


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## Barb (Dec 10, 2009)

Yukon said:


> Americans are going to have universal health care (Medicare for all) provided by the government. It's going to happen next year. Get used to it.
> 
> Living in Canada we have had Medicare for over 40 years and it works quite well. Our Medicare system pays for *ABORTION* which is deemed as a medical procedure not a crime. Amercan's new medicare bill too will cover *abortion*, after all 85 % of private insurance plans pay for it and President Obama has said Mediacre will be equal to private insurance.
> 
> ...



People under the standard age limit will have to buy into the program. By the time the taxpayers are involved with payment, pregnancy wouldn't be an issue anyway. Since abortion is a legal medical procedure, it would be a violation of equal protection NOT to cover it.


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## Barb (Dec 10, 2009)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > medicare not paying for abortion would be a big mistake, a girl who cannot afford an abortion is most likely still going to have one anyways but probably not in a safe way. If she does have the baby, what do you think the chances of her dumping that child somewhere is?
> ...






> Between 1995 and 2003, abortion rates dropped more in developed than in developing countries. And although it may be difficult for some to accept, rates fell most sharply in countries where abortion is legally available on broad grounds and widely available in practice.



Cohen, Susan A. New Data on Abortion Incidence, Safety Illuminate Key Aspects of Worldwide Abortion Debate Guttmacher Institute. 2007. Volume 10. 4. http://www.ippf.org/NR/rdonlyres/8D...2A/0/Death_Denial_unsafe_abortion_poverty.pdf


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 10, 2009)

Emma said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > You want viagra, a penis pump, a vagina restoration, an abortion, birth control?  Pay for it yourself.
> ...



I know you're not going to understand this, but every procedure covered by an insurance company is paid for by spreading the cost among all the policyholders of that company by way of raising their premium rates.  It is completely ridiculous to expect other policyholders to accept higher rates to cover non-essential, elective procedures.  It is the equivalent of expecting food stamps to pay for beer and cigarettes.  The purpose of health insurance is to indemnify - ie. protect - people against serious health threats, not to get them big woodies on demand.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 10, 2009)

Hinemoa said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > So you're one of these people who think its the womans responsibility to prevent pregnancy? What if the was raped? Does that make her lack morality?
> ...


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 10, 2009)

Hinemoa said:


> Jon said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



Why? Is he somehow more responsible for the resulting pregnancy than she is?  Last time I checked, it takes two people to have sex.

. . . At least two.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 10, 2009)

Hinemoa said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > #1, very few rape victims seek abortion. #2, only a tiny percentage of them are unable to attain them in the technical form of a "D&C" from any MD.
> ...



Lemme spell it out for you, Einstein.  If a million abortions a year are performed, and less than 1% of them are due to rape, then a discussion about taxpayer-funded abortions is not about women who are impregnated through rape, and you're wasting everyone's time trying to pretend that it is.

Now, is that clear enough for you, or do I need to break out the Crayolas and draw a picture?


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 10, 2009)

Barb said:


> Yukon said:
> 
> 
> > Americans are going to have universal health care (Medicare for all) provided by the government. It's going to happen next year. Get used to it.
> ...



Really? Where does any law say that equal protection means taxpayer funding of any and all legal medical procedures?  Breast implants are a legal medical procedure.  Should the taxpayers start buying big hooters for every stripper in America?  Hair plugs are a legal medical procedure.  Do we have a Constitutional obligation to buy 'em for every bald guy?  Do I have a Constitutional right to a taxpayer-funded face lift when my chin gets a little saggy?  Those are legal medical procedures, too.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 10, 2009)

Barb said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



. . . And I'm looking for a point, and I'm looking for a point . . .

Nope.  No point visible.


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## Emma (Dec 10, 2009)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Hinemoa said:
> 
> 
> > AllieBaba said:
> ...



Tell that to the 10,000 women impregnated by rape every year (using your unsourced numbers).


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## Emma (Dec 10, 2009)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



Every one of those things listed (with the exception of birth control) are legitimate medical treatments for (or prevention of) complications of serious medical conditions. So, I ask again. Why shouldn't they be covered by health insurance?


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 10, 2009)

Emma said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Hinemoa said:
> ...



Tell them what, precisely?


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 10, 2009)

Emma said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Emma said:
> ...



No, as a matter of fact, they aren't.  The inability to get and sustain an erection is in no way a threat to someone's life or health.  If a man has a condition which has as its side effect an erectile dysfunction - say, prostate problems - the treatment is already covered under Medicare, and it most assuredly is not Viagra.  Abortions, by and large, are not treatments for any condition other than being a careless slut.  In those rare instances where something else is at play - say the mother needs radiation therapy or has an ectopic pregnancy - abortions are already covered.  There is no reason to cover all abortions merely to deal with situations that are already being handled.  And once again, I'm not going to allow the disingenuity of pretending that abortion debates are about only the hard cases, so give it up.  That is the equivalent of trying to compare breast implants for a woman who had a double mastectomy with breast implants for a porn star.

Interestingly, birth control IS already covered by private medical insurance AND government health programs, because it is deemed more cost-effective than paying for healthcare for a pregnant woman and then later for the resultant child.


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## Hinemoa (Dec 10, 2009)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



What a shame you think all women who become pregnant are careless sluts.I notice you dont have a label for the 'fathers'. Is it a case of 'men being men' and 'doing what men do' (nudge nudge wink wink) What name do you give to them?


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## Hinemoa (Dec 10, 2009)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Hinemoa said:
> 
> 
> > AllieBaba said:
> ...



So you dismiss them do you? or  are they sluts too and 'asked for it' ?


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## Hinemoa (Dec 10, 2009)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Hinemoa said:
> 
> 
> > Jon said:
> ...



You said it...takes two but somehow you don't think he counts...its just the sluts responsibility


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## Claudette (Dec 11, 2009)

Its responsibility of both parties. The woman can always say no and can insist on a condom being used. If the guy is any kind of a man he will make sure he uses that condom. With HIV out there I for one can't see why anyone would have sex without protection. Abortion wouldn't be an issue at all if people used their heads. 

For the record I have no problem with abortion but see no reason I should pay for someone elses irresponsibility. Nuff said.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Dec 11, 2009)

Emma said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > You want viagra, a penis pump, a vagina restoration, an abortion, birth control?  Pay for it yourself.
> ...



Those are what you call elective surgeries(well other than rape/life of mother in abortion and breast reconstruction from breast cancer), that is why they should not be included.

That would be like saying that tire upgrades should be included in car insurance.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 11, 2009)

Hinemoa said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Emma said:
> ...



What a shame you can't read, because nowhere did I say, "all women who become pregnant are careless sluts."  Why don't you graduate the fifth grade and THEN come back and try to debate with the adults?

I have lots of labels for men who make babies outside of wedlock, as it happens, but THEY aren't the ones having said babies cut into chunks and tossed in biohazard bags, which happens to be the topic here.  When you get into the fifth grade reading class, they'll teach you about "topic".


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 11, 2009)

Hinemoa said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Hinemoa said:
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No, numbfuck.  I don't dismiss them.  I stick to the topic of conversation, rather than wandering down tangents like a brain-damaged homeless person, trying to pretend that a conversation about abortion in America is all about raped women.

You might as well give it up now, because no matter how many times you keep posting, trying to drag this thread over to raped women, I'm going to drag it right the fuck back to the real issue, and then call you a dishonest coward.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 11, 2009)

Hinemoa said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Hinemoa said:
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When men have some legal and biological control over what happens to the baby after he's created, I will talk about men in the context of abortion.  Until then, we're talking about abortion, and you can get your cowardly ass right the hell back onto the subject and quit trying to change it.

Call me when you grow a pair, poltroon.


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## Barb (Dec 11, 2009)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



 Clearly, you have some reading comprehension issues. Read only the parts of my post in bold above. If the aim is to reduce abortion, outlawing it or making it harder to obtain is a proven failure.


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## Yukon (Dec 11, 2009)

In the USA abortion freedom for the Negro woman has reduced the rate of crime in areas like Washington DC which is a dryug inveted, disgusted Negro ghetto. Fewer Negros being born equals reduced crime. This is a statistical fact.


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## Emma (Dec 11, 2009)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Emma said:
> 
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> > Cecilie1200 said:
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Whether you like to admit it or not, they indeed are.


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## Hinemoa (Dec 11, 2009)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Hinemoa said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
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You're an adult ? oh

You have repeatedly referred to women having abortions as sluts and not once have referred to the fathers at all as though the woman is the only one making the decision.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Dec 11, 2009)

Yukon said:


> In the USA abortion freedom for the Negro woman has reduced the rate of crime in areas like Washington DC which is a dryug inveted, disgusted Negro ghetto. Fewer Negros being born equals reduced crime. This is a statistical fact.



Yukon.....Nevermind.....


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## Hinemoa (Dec 11, 2009)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Hinemoa said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
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Noone said it was all about raped women.
Perhaps you could reread?


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## Hinemoa (Dec 11, 2009)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Hinemoa said:
> 
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> > Cecilie1200 said:
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That lets you off the hook then because men dont have biological control after their moments of fun do they? 

You 'are' an adult are you?...probably not


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## AllieBaba (Dec 11, 2009)

Yukon said:


> In the USA abortion freedom for the Negro woman has reduced the rate of crime in areas like Washington DC which is a dryug inveted, disgusted Negro ghetto. Fewer Negros being born equals reduced crime. This is a statistical fact.



Bullshit, you idiot. Provide the fucking stats. Because I know for a fact the murder rate QUADRUPLED in DC after they tightened gun control in the 70s, which happens to be shortly after Roe v. Wade,  and it still hasn't come down to pre-gun control days.

THere are absolutely  no statistics which support your claim nimrod.


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## Barb (Dec 11, 2009)

Yukon said:


> In the USA abortion freedom for the Negro woman has reduced the rate of crime in areas like Washington DC which is a dryug inveted, disgusted Negro ghetto. Fewer Negros being born equals reduced crime. This is a statistical fact.



Honestly, you're an asshole.


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## FA_Q2 (Dec 12, 2009)

All right, I guess I picked one hell of a topic for my first post  
  There are some points here that I HAVE to address.  First:  THE MAN HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS.  PERIOD.  It is interesting that people keep bringing this up.  Abortion is a choice the woman makes and the man has absolutely no say in whether or not to keep the child he has created.  Interestingly enough, if the woman chooses to keep the baby then the man now must take responsibility but a woman can get out of responsibility of the child with an abortion.  
  Second:  The fact is, this is a matter of personal responsibility and should be treated as such.  Abortion should not be covered under government healthcare because you are REQUIRED to pay taxes and abortion is not a required procedure.  In special cases like rape and endangerment then it should be covered but that is it.  In civilian insurance it is a different story.  I have a choice on what policy I am going to purchase so I can choose not to purchase the one that covers abortion.
  Third:  The poll is just plain dumb.  I refuse to vote because there is no option for me to select.  ADD No. Abortion is a choice and you should have to pay for your choices.
  I also want to point out the dishonesty and inherent danger in quoting random statistical evidence.  Statistics in of themselves mean nothing without the details behind them.  It is lunacy to believe that making abortion free will somehow magically reduce the number abortions.  The statement said that it was lower in countries that had it widely available which is the case now.  Nothing in that statement points to free abortion (or at least free for the individual) decreased its use.  I would also like to point out that it is entirely possible that the reductions had nothing to do with the availability of abortion.  
Abortion should NOT be covered under a national health plan.  Then again I don&#8217;t think there should be a national health plan.  To be clear, I am a pro choice republican-go figure.  BUT I believe that abortion should be tightly regulated to the first trimester.  If you screwed up you have a chance to fix it.  If you are so lazy or inattentive as to not get it fixed in three months then you have to live with it.  Quite frankly, you are an idiot if you don&#8217;t consider that a fetus IS a living person.  Giving it another name does not make it something else.  I am pro choice out of necessary evils, not because it is right.

PS.. I will not even respond to yukon's idiodic (and racist) post.


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## Yukon (Dec 12, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Bullshit, you idiot. Provide the fucking stats. Because I know for a fact the murder rate QUADRUPLED in DC after they tightened gun control in the 70s, which happens to be shortly after Roe v. Wade,  and it still hasn't come down to pre-gun control days.
> 
> THere are absolutely  no statistics which support your claim nimrod.



Actually, you disgusting, uneducated, foul-mouthed, red-necked, Conservative wackjob, the stats are there in support of my claim. It is people like you, too ignorant to understand statistics, that require enlightening. 

You really are a sad waste of human flesh. That being said I ask you to review the data if you can undertstand it...........

http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/DonohueLevittTheImpactOfLegalized2001.pdf


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## Big_D (Dec 12, 2009)

Yukon said:


> In the USA abortion freedom for the Negro woman has reduced the rate of crime in areas like Washington DC which is a dryug inveted, disgusted Negro ghetto. Fewer Negros being born equals reduced crime. This is a statistical fact.



And you call the Republicans racist?

How about my last post in this thread, "Father" Yukon?  You clearly are a liar as you proclaim to be a pro-choice catholic priest.  My question to you is, why are you lying?


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 12, 2009)

Emma said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Emma said:
> ...



Well, gee, I guess since one of the biggest mouthbreathing imbeciles on the board has asserted it, that makes it true.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 12, 2009)

Hinemoa said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Hinemoa said:
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Of course I haven't referred to the sperm donors.  That would be because the topic is abortion, and men don't have them.  And yes, it IS the woman making the decision.  That's the way the law is set up.  Whether or not she listens to someone else in making that decision, she is still the one making it.  Welcome to reality.

Now stop wasting everyone's time with your lame attempts at insults and your even worse attempts at changing the subject and diverting.

The topic is abortion and Medicare.  The government has no business funding elective abortions.  Your next post will directly address this topic, or be taken as a surrender.  Your choice.


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## Hinemoa (Dec 12, 2009)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Hinemoa said:
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> > Cecilie1200 said:
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My post will directly address what 'I' choose and not you.

'Ofcourse' you dont mention the sperm donor because that allows you the questionable labelling of women as 'sluts'. Why it pleases you to do this only you know.
The Government has has every business in funding elective abortions if it cares for its womens medical needs.


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## frazzledgear (Dec 12, 2009)

Yukon said:


> It's early yet but the vote is 100% in favour of the procedure being paid for by Medicare. Bravo my enlightened friends.
> 
> Not surprising though one person responded with atypical Conservative, stone-age mental capacity.
> 
> Zoom-boing you should consider moving back to the stone-age society of Afghanistan - you'll most certainly feel right at home !




In THIS country, we aren't supposed to be living under the forced rule of the minority over the majority.  Forcing taxpayers to foot the bill for elective abortions when more than 2/3 oppose that on MORAL GROUNDS  -cannot ever be considered "enlightenment".  Let's call it by its real name - TYRANNY.   

A recent poll showed that 71% of Americans are ANGRY at their own government.  And I bet you haven't a clue why that is.  Last time Americans got very angry at their own government it didn't turn out so well for that government.  And unlike for you Canadians, our Constitution -the contract between WE THE PEOPLE and our government -specifically states that WE THE PEOPLE reserve the right to tear it down and start over if it fails to do the job for which we created it.  Because in THIS country government is supposed to be our SERVANT, not our master.  Maybe those totalitarian loving liberals who are just 20% in this country but believe they have a "right" to rule and force their will on everyone else don't want to accept this fact -but it was never created to become a tyrannical nanny state of forced rule.  And the vast majority of Americans reject that since they place FAR greater value on their true freedoms instead.  

Just because liberals place no real value on their own freedoms (and many don't even know what freedom really is, thinking it means "free to kill my unwanted unborn child" "free to buy the services of a prostitute" and "free to legally buy marijuana"none of which has a thing to do with real freedom) does not EVER mean I must forfeit my own.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 12, 2009)

Hinemoa said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
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> > Hinemoa said:
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You're done, newbie.  Your surrender is duly registered.  B'bye.

FLUSH!


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## Hinemoa (Dec 12, 2009)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Hinemoa said:
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## frazzledgear (Dec 12, 2009)

Barb said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Barb said:
> ...



You're making a LEAP in logic that legal abortion results in LOWER abortion rates which is ludicrous on its face.  Abortion rates have been quite high for a long time in countries where it was legal.  So if the rates have recently dropped, pure common sense tells you the reason for it must be due to some OTHER factor that has also changed with it.  It can't be because of its legality because it has been legal all along when the abortion rates were also higher.    

So it means identifying what has CHANGED, not what has remained the same and pretending THAT is what accounts for the drop in rates.  When you check on what people think about abortion today compared to even a decade ago, you will find that public opinion regarding abortion has done a turn around.  The majority of people oppose abortion on demand, an increase in the percentage of those who consider abortion to be murder, an even larger majority than before who consider it to be immoral, an even larger overwhelming majority than before who oppose allowing the abortion of a viable fetus, a smaller majority than before now believe it should be allowed to save the mother's life or in the cases of rape and _*unlike just a couple of decades ago -today nearly HALF think it should not be legal under any circumstances*_.  Obviously among the growing group that is now nearly half the population who no longer holds with the "its a woman's body so she can kill her unwanted child and have its body butchered up like a slab of meat if she feels like it today" -are those women who find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy and refuse to have their child killed to pay for their own irresponsibility in preventing pregnancy.  (And really, in THIS day and age every excuse used to justify reproductive irresponsibility is ridiculous.  You don't want a child, make sure you don't get one started then and plenty of reliable products for men and women alike to choose from in order to do that.  Once you get a child started, that child's life doesn't belong to anyone but it.)  

Poll: Majority favor abortion funding ban - CNN.com  60% oppose public funding of abortion.  

Support For Abortion Slips: Overview - Pew Research Center for the People & the Press  45% favor making abortion illegal in all cases, 65% believe it is good to reduce the number of abortions in this country and a DECREASE in the percentage of those who think a "middle ground" on the issue should be found.  Meaning MORE people want it just outlawed, MORE people want it more restricted and more difficult for women to get - and FEWER people are willing to accept a compromise on it.

What has CHANGED is people's attitudes towards and opinion about abortion and that holds true even among women who find themselves with an unplanned pregnancy -thereby reducing the abortion rates.


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## Barb (Dec 12, 2009)

frazzledgear said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



 Its not a "leap in logic," sparky, its a documented fact. Some of what changes is that unmet need for birth control lowers where abortion is legal. "Outlawing" abortion doesn't make it stop, it drives it underground, where it is more dangerous. 

International Planned Parenthood Federation, Death and Denial: Unsafe Abortion and Poverty.4. http://www.ippf.org/NR/rdonlyres/8D...2A/0/Death_Denial_unsafe_abortion_poverty.pdf  (Accessed April 22, 2009).
 US Deparment of State. " Population at the Millenium.   Unmet need for Family Planning. Fact Sheet. 24.


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## Barb (Dec 12, 2009)

frazzledgear said:


> Yukon said:
> 
> 
> > It's early yet but the vote is 100% in favour of the procedure being paid for by Medicare. Bravo my enlightened friends.
> ...







> Lets unpack last weeks big number: 15.
> 
> Thats the percentage-point swing toward the pro-life position on abortion in the last year, according to new Gallup Poll results.
> 
> ...



Abortion polls back and forth - Chicago Tribune


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## Emma (Dec 12, 2009)

frazzledgear said:


> In THIS country, we aren't supposed to be living under the forced rule of the minority over the majority.  Forcing taxpayers to foot the bill for elective abortions when more than 2/3 oppose that on MORAL GROUNDS  -cannot ever be considered "enlightenment".  Let's call it by its real name - TYRANNY.



When it comes to rights, majority vs minority doesn't have a damned thing to do with it. The majority can't 'vote' away the rights of the minority.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 13, 2009)

Emma said:


> frazzledgear said:
> 
> 
> > In THIS country, we aren't supposed to be living under the forced rule of the minority over the majority.  Forcing taxpayers to foot the bill for elective abortions when more than 2/3 oppose that on MORAL GROUNDS  -cannot ever be considered "enlightenment".  Let's call it by its real name - TYRANNY.
> ...



But apparently in your view, the minority can sue away the rights of the majority.  Hmmm.


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## Emma (Dec 13, 2009)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > frazzledgear said:
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Feel free to provide a post where I stated that. Thanks.


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## Christopher (Dec 13, 2009)

Hinemoa said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
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Meaning you are not going to fully participate in a discussion, got it.

Caring for a women's medical needs is one thing, terminating a developing human life for the woman's "convenience" is another.


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## Christopher (Dec 13, 2009)

Barb said:


> frazzledgear said:
> 
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Outlawing anything never makes it stop.  Just look at banned substances and handguns for instance.


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## Jon (Dec 13, 2009)

Hinemoa said:


> Jon said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



There's a beautiful double standard to be found in the abortion debate.

Women have the right to abort a child they do not want. But men are forced to pay child support for children they do not want.

If a man wants his unborn child, and the woman does not, the man is shit out of luck.

Like I said, it's a very beautiful standard.

As for the issue of abortion in the health care debate, I notice that the topic of Viagra continues to come up. Why do abortionists think the solution is, "If they cover Viagra, they cover abortions?" First of all, the two things are not related. Secondly, maybe the issue should be, "Why don't we STOP covering Viagra?" Because personally, I don't see any medicinal use that comes from the drug.


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## Hinemoa (Dec 13, 2009)

Jon said:


> Hinemoa said:
> 
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Ok so my sarcasm doesnt match others here though I dont resort to name calling.

Can you imagine the outcry if Viagra was stopped?


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## Emma (Dec 13, 2009)

Jon said:


> "Why don't we STOP covering Viagra?" Because personally, I don't see any medicinal use that comes from the drug.



Sildenafil  is used for pulmonary arterial hypertension and raynaud's.


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## Jon (Dec 13, 2009)

Hinemoa said:


> Ok so my sarcasm doesnt match others here though I dont resort to name calling.
> 
> Can you imagine the outcry if Viagra was stopped?



So your solution is to that two wrongs do make a right? Ignorance at its best.


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## Hinemoa (Dec 14, 2009)

Jon said:


> Hinemoa said:
> 
> 
> > Ok so my sarcasm doesnt match others here though I dont resort to name calling.
> ...



Not at all. The point that you're missing is simply that there is an alternative for the 'medical' need of Viagra but going by the posts in this thread, the 'alternative' for abortion is to have either back street ops or to have unwanted children, possibly in care or a millstone around the unwilling fathers neck.

If this discussion is supposedly about the costs involved  re abortion and medicare then which is the greater pull on the tax payers purse?


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## Jon (Dec 14, 2009)

Hinemoa said:


> the 'alternative' for abortion is to have either back street ops or to have unwanted children, possibly in care or a millstone around the unwilling fathers neck.



The alternative to abortion is to use condoms or for one to have a tubal ligation and/or have their partner get a vasectomy. We know what causes pregnancy, and we know how to prevent it. Why should insurance companies (or in this case taxpayers) have to pay for the ignorance of others?


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## Yukon (Dec 14, 2009)

EMMA,

have you ever had an abortion and if so how much does it cost in the USA ? In Canada it's covered by Medicare.


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## Emma (Dec 14, 2009)

Yukon said:


> EMMA,
> 
> have you ever had an abortion and if so *how much does it cost in the USA* ? In Canada it's covered by Medicare.



No, and I have no idea.


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## Yukon (Dec 14, 2009)

Thank you Emma....an abortion in the USA costs approximately 1500.00 - 2000.00 with no complications. In Canada the procedure is free regardless of complications. 

It won't be long though when American women will get free procedures. *Obama* is bringing in Medicare which will bring American society completely into the 21st century. You wont go bankrupt because you can't afford Health Insurance.


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## rightwinger (Dec 14, 2009)

Medicare is for people 65 and older.

If you are over 65 and pregnant, you deserve an abortion


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## Hinemoa (Dec 14, 2009)

Jon said:


> Hinemoa said:
> 
> 
> > the 'alternative' for abortion is to have either back street ops or to have unwanted children, possibly in care or a millstone around the unwilling fathers neck.
> ...



Well thats the same as saying why pay for smoking related conditions when people still smoke or alcohol caused conditions when people still drink.We know the causes of both but people still choose to ignore advice. Its a bit late for condoms etc when the pregnancy has occurred isnt it.


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## Yukon (Dec 14, 2009)

75% of Americans are OBESE from eating junk food 24/7. You people are so fat, and so lazy that eventually every dime you make will go towards eating junk food and going to Chinese Doctors.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 14, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> Medicare is for people 65 and older.
> 
> If you are over 65 and pregnant, you deserve an abortion



From Medicare.gov:

The Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) administers Medicare, the nation's largest health insurance program, which covers nearly 40 million Americans. Medicare is a Health Insurance Program for people age 65 or older, *some disabled people under age 65*, and people of all ages with End-Stage Renal Disease (permanent kidney failure treated with dialysis or a transplant).

I already said this, but God forbid you should read, let alone think and remember.


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## rightwinger (Dec 14, 2009)

Cecilie1200 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Medicare is for people 65 and older.
> ...



In that case...make the abortion mandatory


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 14, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
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> > rightwinger said:
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Why?  Cripples shouldn't be allowed to breed, Dr. Goebbels?


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## Emma (Dec 14, 2009)

Yukon said:


> Thank you Emma....an abortion in the USA costs approximately 1500.00 - 2000.00 with no complications. In Canada the procedure is free regardless of complications.
> 
> It won't be long though when American women will get free procedures. *Obama* is bringing in Medicare which will bring American society completely into the 21st century. You wont go bankrupt because you can't afford Health Insurance.



Your cost is a bit inflated. The average is a little over $500. 

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/4000608.pdf


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## Emma (Dec 14, 2009)

Cecilie1200 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
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Disability doesn't necessarily equate to "crippled", Ms. Know-it-all.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 14, 2009)

Emma said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
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> > rightwinger said:
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I think that was MY point, Ms. Reading Comprehension.  It's called "sarcasm".  Look it up.


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## Emma (Dec 14, 2009)

Knew a 30-something fellow nurse who was 'disabled' d/t depression.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 14, 2009)

Emma said:


> Knew a 30-something fellow nurse who was 'disabled' d/t depression.



Depression can be truly debilitating if it's severe enough.  God knows, I had a horrible time with post-partum blues this year before they got my medication worked out.  And I know my bout was pretty mild compared to what some women experience.


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## Emma (Dec 15, 2009)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > Knew a 30-something fellow nurse who was 'disabled' d/t depression.
> ...



No doubt. 

But I knew this person. She bragged about getting full disability for her "depression" and never having to work again. I realize that the majority truly deserve it, but I've also known people who just played the system.


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## FA_Q2 (Dec 15, 2009)

> Christopher
> Outlawing anything never makes it stop. Just look at banned substances and handguns for instance.


No kidding.  Where has it been stated that it would be better to outlaw here in this thread??  Hmmmm&#8230;.. that&#8217;s right, we are talking about not making it FREE.  Making it free certainly won&#8217;t make it stop, it will increase it!


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## Rozman (Dec 15, 2009)

Yukon said:


> Americans are going to have universal health care (Medicare for all) provided by the government. It's going to happen next year. Get used to it.
> 
> Living in Canada we have had Medicare for over 40 years and it works quite well. Our Medicare system pays for *ABORTION* which is deemed as a medical procedure not a crime. Amercan's new medicare bill too will cover *abortion*, after all 85 % of private insurance plans pay for it and President Obama has said Mediacre will be equal to private insurance.
> 
> ...



If a woman wants an abortion,fine it's not illegal. But why should my tax dollars go to pay for it.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 15, 2009)

Emma said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Emma said:
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You probably should have reported her for fraud.


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## frazzledgear (Dec 15, 2009)

Jon said:


> Hinemoa said:
> 
> 
> > Jon said:
> ...



I agree about that double standard -I've pointed out the hypocrisy of that several times.  Insurance companies cover Viagra because it returns a physical impairment back to normal.  MANY medical conditions cause all sorts of physical dysfunctions and erectile dysfunction is one of the earliest impairments caused by both disease AND the medications used to treat those diseases.  If your body does not work properly, the treatments needed to return it to normal or as near normal as possible are covered by insurance.  Who in their right mind would argue they don't want the treatments needed to return normal function covered by insurance?  Disease steals normal function in all sorts of areas of the body and insurance should cover the treatments that restore as normal a function again as possible -period.

The comparable treatment for women IS covered by insurance -treatment, medication and even surgery if needed for women to be able to return to having a normal sex life.  And there ARE medical conditions as the result of aging, disease and trauma that can interfere with that -but are covered by insurance as well. 

But abortion has nothing do with physical impairment -in NO WAY is it comparable to having Viagra covered.  Their ability to have a normal sex life was never impaired and  women just want taxpayers to foot their bill for their own irresponsible behavior.  It is like demanding taxpayers pay the fines for drunk drivers.  Except that abortion involves the LIFE of another human being and the vast majority in this country do not want to be forced to pay to have that child KILLED!  I am sick to death of these liberal jerks who want to pretend it only involves the woman and that unless everyone agrees that poor, irresponsible woman can have her child killed at taxpayer expense -why we just aren't ENLIGHTENED!   Insisting taxpayers, no matter how they feel about abortion, no matter how immoral they believe it to be, no matter if they believe it is the slaughter of the innocent - should be forced to foot the bill so some irresponsible woman can have her own child killed -is just not horrific MORAL BANKRUPTCY  -it is the typical totalitarian-loving left that believes in using the power of the state so the minority can tyrannize the majority.  As if history has never shown that will never come back to bite them in the ass big time.


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## frazzledgear (Dec 15, 2009)

Jon said:


> Hinemoa said:
> 
> 
> > Ok so my sarcasm doesnt match others here though I dont resort to name calling.
> ...



Two wrongs?  I expect insurance to cover the treatments, medications and procedures needed to restore any impaired physical function to normal or as near normal as possible -for women and men.  And without others deciding I should be forced to forfeit some normal functions forever all because someone ELSE has replaced THEIR value of that function for my OWN!  

But that is NOT the issue with abortion.  I put abortion in the same category as cosmetic surgery which is usually NOT covered by insurance.  A woman decides to get breast implants because she thinks it will improve her appearance.  And likewise for most women who get an abortion, they think they look much better without being saddled with an unwanted child.   It still doesn't mean they have any right to expect taxpayers to foot the bill to have their child killed and butchered up like a piece of meat.  I only see ONE wrong here.


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## Emma (Dec 15, 2009)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
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Didn't have to


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## AllieBaba (Dec 15, 2009)

Emma said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Emma said:
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To get full disability you have to have supporting documentation/evaluations which show that you are unable to work and will continue to be unable to work.


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## Emma (Dec 15, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
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Of course. Obviously she either was a hell of an actor or her doc was less than honest.


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## uscitizen (Dec 15, 2009)

There are also required perodic re-certifications of your disability.


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## MajikMyst (Dec 15, 2009)

Rozman said:


> Yukon said:
> 
> 
> > Americans are going to have universal health care (Medicare for all) provided by the government. It's going to happen next year. Get used to it.
> ...



You answered your own question.. Because it isn't illegal.. The law says she can have it then the law should pay for it.. If you don't like the law then change it or move to another country..


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 16, 2009)

MajikMyst said:


> Rozman said:
> 
> 
> > Yukon said:
> ...



He didn't answer his own question, unless you think Medicare should cover any and all medical procedures that are legal, including Lasik, breast augmentation, face lifts . . .

Of course, you're such an ignorant, sucking leech, you probably do.


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## Big_D (Dec 16, 2009)

Yukon said:


> 75% of Americans are OBESE from eating junk food 24/7. You people are so fat, and so lazy that eventually every dime you make will go towards eating junk food and going to Chinese Doctors.



Wrong again.  34% of Americans are obese.

Obese Americans now outweigh the merely overweight | Reuters


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## Emma (Dec 16, 2009)

Big_D said:


> Yukon said:
> 
> 
> > 75% of Americans are OBESE from eating junk food 24/7. You people are so fat, and so lazy that eventually every dime you make will go towards eating junk food and going to Chinese Doctors.
> ...



Obesity and Overweight
(Data are for the U.S.)




Percent of noninstitutionalized adults age 20 years and over who are overweight or obese: 67% (2005-2006)


Percent of noninstitutionalized adults age 20 years and over who are obese: 34% (2005-2006)


Percent of adolescents age 12-19 years who are overweight: 18% (2005-2006)


Percent of children age 6-11 years who are overweight: 15% (2005-2006)


Percent of children age 2-5 years who are overweight: 11% (2005-2006)

FASTSTATS - Overweight Prevalence

Pretty fucking sad. In this area, the percentage is far higher.


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## Yukon (Dec 18, 2009)

Big_D said:


> Wrong again.  34% of Americans are obese.
> 
> Obese Americans now outweigh the merely overweight | Reuters



Gee whiz BIG D I'm really sorry for the horrible mistake I made. I stand corrected as based on your figure of 34% only slightly more than 100,000,000 of you are fat, bloated, lazy, beer swilling grotesque excuses of a human being. I really am sorry!


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## Big_D (Dec 18, 2009)

Yukon said:


> Big_D said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong again.  34% of Americans are obese.
> ...



Lets see you only more than DOUBLED the amount that was accurate.  In fact, according to this article (Adult obesity in Canada: Measured height and weight) less than 30 % of Americans are obese and in fact your native land is only slightly better.  Also, this article states that the figure was the same for white men in both nations.  You must think Canadians are also grotesque excuses for human beings.


So, lets get back to you apparently being a priest.  I never heard your response on that subject.  Nobody is going to take you seriously after you clearly blatantly lied about that.


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## AllieBaba (Dec 18, 2009)

MajikMyst said:


> Rozman said:
> 
> 
> > Yukon said:
> ...



The government is supposed to pay for everything that's legal??????


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## Barb (Dec 18, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> MajikMyst said:
> 
> 
> > Rozman said:
> ...



 Medicare is a government controlled benefit program. It has rules to follow according to the law. Equal representation UNDER the law is a tenet of our Constitution. So yes, if the law says legal procedures are covered under Medicare, and as abortion is a legal procedure, then Medicare is legally required to cover it. It really isn't that complicated.


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## The T (Dec 18, 2009)

Barb said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > MajikMyst said:
> ...


 
I see. So *YOU* are trying to tell us that WORSE law must _follow BAD LAW?_

_And Under what part of the Constitution addresses what the legislators are trying to do?_

What Clause of The Constitution? Chapter/Verse that spells it out? (That they can dictate to citizens that they MUST _subscribe to ANY plan_ by Government FIAT/Private Plan?

*I*, and many of my compadres will be waiting for the _revelation..._


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## AllieBaba (Dec 19, 2009)

Barb said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > MajikMyst said:
> ...




You fucking idiot. Medicare pays for the elderly, who aren't having abortions since they aren't eligible until they're 65, and the DISABLED.

That's it. I guess the disabled should be able to get abortions, if clinics will take their medicare cards. And hey that puts us right where the lefties want us...butchering the babies of substandards.


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## Yukon (Dec 19, 2009)

My children. Abortion is legal and despite the fact that the Holy Father in Rome is against abortion I, Father Yukon, favour PRO-CHOICE. As I have shown statistically abortion is beneficial to the USA. Look at DC where the Negro female procreates like a rabbit. By permitting legal abortion the Negro female can now rid her body of the unwanted, parasitic, fetal tissue and by doing this I have shown that CRIME drops - fewer Negro babies to mature into drug-crazed criminals.


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## Big_D (Dec 19, 2009)

Yukon said:


> My children. Abortion is legal and despite the fact that the Holy Father in Rome is against abortion I, Father Yukon, favour PRO-CHOICE. As I have shown statistically abortion is beneficial to the USA. Look at DC where the Negro female procreates like a rabbit. By permitting legal abortion the Negro female can now rid her body of the unwanted, parasitic, fetal tissue and by doing this I have shown that CRIME drops - fewer Negro babies to mature into drug-crazed criminals.




I never heard of a religious official making such clearly RACIST comments. 


The catechism of the Catholic Church _CLEARLY_ states that anyone who has a pro-choice stance is committing a mortal sin.  If you were a priest, you would know that one who would commit this type of sin and has no plans on changing their ways, cannot go to heaven when they die.  So, by your own account you believe that you yourself is going to hell.


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## AllieBaba (Dec 19, 2009)

Yukon said:


> Big_D said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong again.  34% of Americans are obese.
> ...



I love neg repping assholes who have no rep points and come here just to bash Americans. 

BTW, you have a tiny dick. And btw, you are yet another example of why people support abortion. To rid the earth of ppl they consider substandard.


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## Yukon (Dec 20, 2009)

Big D,

I am a former Priest. By the way my child does the 'D' stand for dummy ?


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 20, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> MajikMyst said:
> 
> 
> > Rozman said:
> ...



That's what they keep saying.  If so, I want to know where the line is for my government-funded boob job when these suckers start succumbing to gravity.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 20, 2009)

Barb said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > MajikMyst said:
> ...



Well, again, that would mean that Medicare is legally required to cover face lifts and breast implants, since they're also legal procedures.  Medicare's coverage rules are not based solely on legality.  They're also based on necessity, and abortion is almost never necessary.


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## Big_D (Dec 20, 2009)

Yukon said:


> Big D,
> 
> I am a former Priest. By the way my child does the 'D' stand for dummy ?




Oh, it really breaks my heart that someone who has said the most RACIST things I have heard in some time now thinks so little of me.  


Did you leave the church?  In the first post of this thread, you said that you were a retired catholic priest.  In other words, you're still Catholic but no longer a priest.


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## Emma (Dec 21, 2009)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> > AllieBaba said:
> ...



In cases of threat to life or health of mother, or in cases of rape / incest, it should be covered.


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## Emma (Dec 21, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> > AllieBaba said:
> ...



The OP is from Canada (I think); he's using the term 'medicare' to describe a universal health care system, not Medicare as we currently have here now.


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## Yukon (Dec 21, 2009)

Call it whatever you want but Ill tell you this. The GOP will force the Dems to keep abortion out of Health Care and the Dems will abide. In less than 2 years the PRO-CHOICE people will take it to the USSC and ABORTION will be paid for by UNIVERSAL paid health. You fools think you've won this? You lose just like you did in Roe vs Wade. 

LONG LIVE HENRY MORGENTALER !


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Dec 21, 2009)

My Body My Choice is the way I roll.

Abortion, Health Insurance....either way its MY BODY AND MY RIGHT TO CHOOSE!!!!

Now keep your hands off my body/healthcare.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 21, 2009)

Emma said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Barb said:
> ...



And already is, and that's not the issue at hand, so stop with the craven hiding behind the skirts of victims.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 21, 2009)

Emma said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > Barb said:
> ...



Then I guess if Mr. Canuck wants to blather and pontificate on American issues, he should either learn the terms for what he's talking about, or shut the hell up.


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## Emma (Dec 21, 2009)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Now keep your hands off my body



Damn!


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## Emma (Dec 21, 2009)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



Huh?


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 22, 2009)

Emma said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Emma said:
> ...



Every time the subject of abortion comes up, you tweekos run and hide behind, "What about rape victims?!  What about incest?!  What about sick women?!" as though you really believe all abortions are due to those hard cases, or that those are the abortions anyone's talking about.  It's bullshit, and it's cowardly.


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## AllieBaba (Dec 22, 2009)

Emma said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > Barb said:
> ...



So is the OP talking about Canadian politics or American?

One wishes that those of different nationalities who wish to lead us down the paths of universal medical coverage would first educate themselves about our system.


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## AllieBaba (Dec 22, 2009)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



It's the only argument that is acceptable, and they  know it.

Even though endangered women/victims of rape/incest count for less than 1/100th of 1 percent of all abortions performed.


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## Cecilie1200 (Dec 22, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > AllieBaba said:
> ...



THIS one wishes that those of different nationalities would mind their own frigging business.  Do we join THEIR message boards and try to tell them how to run their countries?  What's it to them?


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## Emma (Dec 22, 2009)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



I'm not hiding behind anything. Those _are_ rare, and I've never said I "believe all abortions are due to those hard cases" and I dare you to find a post of mine that even comes close to that. But "rare" doesn't mean a goddamned thing when it happens to you or someone you love. It sure as hell didn't when our family came too damned close to having to make that decision, and these holier-than-thou types who feel they can belittle these cases as "rare" piss me off. Fuck them. I actually had an asshole attack me for saying I was prepared to make that decision to save my daughter, telling me I should have let her die to save the baby. As much as I love my grandson, I was not going to sacrifice MY baby to save her unborn child and at a point he would not have survived in any case.


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## Yukon (Dec 24, 2009)

Call it what you like - universal care, Obamacare, medicare, health care, insurance care, rip-off care, I don't care. You people go bankrupt when you get sick - WE DON'T. God bless OBAMA for he along with the USSC will end the American Health Insurance Farce.


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