# This photo captures the difference between socialists and freedom loving capitalists...



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....


----------



## HUGGY (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....



I believe your photo caption has it entirely backwards.  The socialist wants everyone to have an opportunity to live in a nice house.  The capitalist doesn't give a damn how anyone else lives.  That would be their problem.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....
> ...




Do you listen to socialists...?   They hate anyone who has one penny more than anyone else...except for themselves, of course, then they deserve it........it is just everyone else who is a greedy, vile person.....


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 9, 2015)

The capitalist will say...I got mine, fuck everyone else


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> The capitalist will say...I got mine, fuck everyone else




No...that is actually what happens to people under socialism......then they start filling the mass graves with the people who object to that......


----------



## TheOldSchool (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....


Yeah that would explain why republicans hate rich liberals...


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 9, 2015)




----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

TheOldSchool said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....
> ...




We don't hate rich liberals, liberals hate other rich people, then try to use the government to take all of their stuff...and then call that "justice."


----------



## FA_Q2 (Aug 9, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> The capitalist will say...I got mine, fuck everyone else


Actually, only the socialists say that about the capitalists.  The capitalists simply want you to go out and get it where the socialist wants someone else to go out and get it for them.


----------



## friendlyfire (Aug 9, 2015)

rightwinger said:


>



I don't see much wrong with the liberal view to be honest.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

FA_Q2 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > The capitalist will say...I got mine, fuck everyone else
> ...



And if they don't get it for them...then comes the soldiers, the work camps, and the death camps....socialists are very serious about taking other people's stuff.....


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

*“I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money.”*

― Thomas Sowell, _Barbarians inside the Gates and Other Controversial Essays_


----------



## HUGGY (Aug 9, 2015)

Both capitalists and socialists attempt to rig the system to achieve political power and wealth.  Neither system is moral.  A truly just society has to monitor and moderate both capitalistic and socialistic tendencies.


----------



## TheOldSchool (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> TheOldSchool said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


So they don't have any stuff?  But I thought you said they were rich!


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> *“I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money.”*
> 
> ― Thomas Sowell, _Barbarians inside the Gates and Other Controversial Essays_


Because a modern society helps those who need helping


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> Both capitalists and socialists attempt to rig the system to achieve political power and wealth.  Neither system is moral.  A truly just society has to monitor and moderate both capitalistic and socialistic tendencies.




And that is where the mass graves come in......


----------



## kiwiman127 (Aug 9, 2015)

There is nothing wrong with capitalism, just as long as it's not unfettered capitalism.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > *“I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money.”*
> ...




Sure....and no one does that better than we do......in fact we do it so well we can afford to waste billions in waste, fraud and theft.......


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

kiwiman127 said:


> There is nothing wrong with capitalism, just as long as it's not unfettered capitalism.




There is nothing wrong with capitalism till the government gets involved and turn it into crony socialism.....


----------



## The Irish Ram (Aug 9, 2015)

Our Demo/Indoctrinated college grads who can't find work, aren't buying *any* houses.  They are too poor.  There are no more capitalists creating jobs for them.  Socialists/Democrats taxed corporations out of our country.

That house belongs to their parents.  They hang out in the basement and play video games with their high school buds, who have no jobs.
And they will have to sell the house when their parents die to pay the enormous death and capital gains taxes the socialists demand.


----------



## The Rabbi (Aug 9, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> The capitalist will say...I got mine, fuck everyone else


If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.


----------



## HUGGY (Aug 9, 2015)

The only end game for capitalism is fascism.  Destroy the competition then buy the voting process ensuring ownership of all significant markets and wealth.


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 9, 2015)




----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

The Irish Ram said:


> Our Demo/Indoctrinated college grads who can't find work, aren't buying *any* houses.  They are too poor.  There are no more capitalists creating jobs for them.  Socialists/Democrats taxed them out of our country.
> 
> That house belongs to their parents.  They hang out in the basement and play video games with their high school buds, who have no jobs.
> And they will have to sell the house when their parents die to pay the enormous tax the socialists demand.




This is very much like Europe...they get a lot of college degrees, then go on the dole and live at home....


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> The only end game for capitalism is fascism.  Destroy the competition then buy the voting process ensuring ownership of all significant markets and wealth.




Fascism is socialism.......what you just described is socialism as the politicians control the means of production...


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

rightwinger said:


>




Do you morons know how investment works....or do you still think Scrooge McDuck stashes all his gold coins in a warehouse......


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

TheOldSchool said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > TheOldSchool said:
> ...




They want the government to take everybody elses stuff.......typical lefty....


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> The only end game for capitalism is fascism.  Destroy the competition then buy the voting process ensuring ownership of all significant markets and wealth.




Capitalism is competition nitwit.....it is socialism that destroys competition.....


----------



## Daniyel (Aug 9, 2015)

rightwinger said:


>


For favoring discrimination doubtlessly that is a great picture that delivers the message, however I believe it shows some interesting insight on Socialists, and the political spectrum in general.
Height is something one cannot strive to be freed from, and is permanent (for the sake of the metaphors) .. Weight on the other hand is something that society should encourage the one suffers to be freed from yet only he can reach by himself.
My point here is that in any way you will observe it, there is either a lack of freedom for one over the other, while the only difference is who should take step to share the other's capabilities in exchange for their freedom.
I tend to believe having a smaller fence is the best solution rather than going around in circles.


----------



## The Rabbi (Aug 9, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > *“I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money.”*
> ...


Thats a non sequitur, even for you.
We're disciussing greed.  Stay on topic.


----------



## HUGGY (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > The only end game for capitalism is fascism.  Destroy the competition then buy the voting process ensuring ownership of all significant markets and wealth.
> ...



I only subscribe to the original definition of fascism as coined by Mussolini as Fascisimo.  The word has been morphed too many times as everything from an anti jewish political force to a military strategy and then as an insult associated with Nazis. 

Fascism is NOT socialism.  It is a blending of political power with the choosing of a group of select manufacturers and services.  What Bush and Cheney did with the no bid contracts associated with the invasion of Iraq was an example pure fascism.  It had NOTHING to do with socialism.


----------



## FA_Q2 (Aug 9, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> The only end game for capitalism is fascism.  Destroy the competition then buy the voting process ensuring ownership of all significant markets and wealth.


You assume there is an endgame.

That is asinine.  You create a system to ENDURE - not to get somewhere.  Capitalism might be a vehicle for innovation but it, in and of itself, is not something that is supposed to move into another system such as fascism.


----------



## The Rabbi (Aug 9, 2015)

kiwiman127 said:


> There is nothing wrong with capitalism, just as long as it's not unfettered capitalism.


There is no such thing as unfettered capitalism.


----------



## Davros (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....



You capitalist Utopists perpetuate the lie that everyone can live like that. They cannot. Only a few can achieve it.

Why are you always so zealous to defend the rich, they can defend themselves.

Democrat proposals of taxing the rich a little bit more is no threat to capitalism. Welfare is no threat to capitalism.

True socialists are a fringe of the Democratic Party and American Liberalism.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...




No, mussolini was a communist who got kicked out of his party and then did what he had to to get power...he was a socialist through and through...fascism is not capitalism, in fact it is the exact opposite of capitalism....


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Davros said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....
> ...




The democrats don't propose taxing the rich "a little bit more" that is just how they get their stupidity past their gullible sheeple followers.......and yes.....the welfare state is completely destructive of individual freedom and therefore the free exchange of goods and services...which is what capitalism is.....


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > The only end game for capitalism is fascism.  Destroy the competition then buy the voting process ensuring ownership of all significant markets and wealth.
> ...



How can fascism be socialism?
They are on opposite sides of the political spectrum


----------



## The Rabbi (Aug 9, 2015)

Davros said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....
> ...


Bullshit.  Anyone can.  Certainly far more than people think.  But youv'e been brainwashed into thinking if government doesnt help then it wont get done.


----------



## The Rabbi (Aug 9, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...


Only if you're stupid.


----------



## HUGGY (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...



You have no idea of what you are talking about.   You revisionists disgust me.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Davros said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....
> ...




We never said everyone can live like that...we said that if government is small enough, everyone will have a chance to live like that and if government is small enough more people will have a chance to live like that....

In socialism..the only ones who live like that work for the government or their minions....the rest are peasants or in mass graves....


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...




Look....you have been raised in democrat controlled public education for 12-16 years, every bit of entertainment you watch is probably produced by left wing socialist sympathizers and all the news you intake is by those same types of people...so it is no wonder you are stupid about things.......you need to break free of their control and actually look for the truth, reality, the difference between right and wrong and good and evil.....


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 9, 2015)

The Rabbi said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




No....how stupid are you...both ends to do not lead to the same place...what a moron...freedom does not lead to more slavery.....


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



No, he stashes his gold overseas so he doesn't have to pay taxes


----------



## HUGGY (Aug 9, 2015)

FA_Q2 said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > The only end game for capitalism is fascism.  Destroy the competition then buy the voting process ensuring ownership of all significant markets and wealth.
> ...



As capitalism lends it's self to bonding with government as a mechanism to endure that is the genesis of fascism.


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....
> ...



You are so full of it.  Wealth envy is the central Democrat theme


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...


The point is that if you go to either extreme, you lose freedom


----------



## Pedro de San Patricio (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....


The only problem is that everyone *can't* live like that. It would be awesome if we all could, but an overclass is only supported by an underclass. The people living in this house only get to live like they do because enough people living in Section 8 and the trailer park across town bust their asses to make it possible.


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

rightwinger said:


>



Yes, Comrade, government not taking money is giving them money, all money is the people's money.

I like how "the rich" paying all the taxes is giving them money.  I can't wait for your next trick


----------



## nat4900 (Aug 9, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> I believe your photo caption has it entirely backwards. The socialist wants everyone to have an opportunity to live in a nice house. The capitalist doesn't give a damn how anyone else lives. That would be their problem.



Well stated....and, I may add, if EVERYONE owned that type of home, the capitalist would candidly say..."Shit, if everybody has that type of home, I need to triple the size of what I'm going to build....who wants to live the same as the rest of the peons?"


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

Pedro de San Patricio said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....
> ...



Yes, when we give lower classes jobs, that is THEM supporting US.  When all their bills are paid with money we pay them.  You people are just ridiculous


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Aug 9, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> The capitalist will say...I got mine, fuck everyone else



The Democrat Low Information Entitlement Voter says the exact same thing


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > I believe your photo caption has it entirely backwards. The socialist wants everyone to have an opportunity to live in a nice house. The capitalist doesn't give a damn how anyone else lives. That would be their problem.
> ...



We buy what we can afford, that's how we became rich.  You don't care where you live anyway as long as you don't have to live next to some "brown person."  Manipulate them for their vote then keep them out of your neighborhood, that's your philosophy


----------



## HUGGY (Aug 9, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



The suggested political definitions along your line is incorrect.  Anarchism is not slavery and neither is fascism.

Just because it is presented on the internet does not make it true.


----------



## Pedro de San Patricio (Aug 9, 2015)

kaz said:


> Yes, when we give lower classes jobs, that is THEM supporting US.  When all their bills are paid with money we pay them.  You people are just ridiculous


You think that you still own the money you pay your employees?


----------



## nat4900 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> We don't hate rich liberals, liberals hate other rich people, then try to use the government to take all of their stuff...and then call that "justice."




The above crap shouldn't go unchallenged.........I'd really like to know when and to whom the "government" took *all* of their stuff and then called that justice. Moronic right wingers throw this stuff out and convince other morons that its the truth.


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Fascism is actually between liberalism ans socialism, Holmes.  It's socialism lite.

I do like a Marxist like you advocating not being "extreme."  Funniest thing I heard since Ted Kennedy decried extremism in DC


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

Pedro de San Patricio said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, when we give lower classes jobs, that is THEM supporting US.  When all their bills are paid with money we pay them.  You people are just ridiculous
> ...



What does that have to do with anything?

They work, I pay them.  They earn their living through me.  How does that make me the one who lives on them?  It's ridiculous


----------



## Jackson (Aug 9, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....
> ...


I disagree, Huggy.


----------



## nat4900 (Aug 9, 2015)

Bear in mind that sociologists state that the "paragon of a capitalist" was.......the slave owner.


----------



## Pedro de San Patricio (Aug 9, 2015)

kaz said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


fascism politics Britannica.com

Fascism is neither conservative nor liberal. It's not capitalist or Communist. It's a "third way" movement. Do you know anything about Mussolini?


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > We don't hate rich liberals, liberals hate other rich people, then try to use the government to take all of their stuff...and then call that "justice."
> ...



You really need to start paying attention when Democrats talk.  Maybe put down the kool-aid first.  The wealthy and businesses are blamed for everything in this country by Democrats just like you blame the "brown people"


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > We don't hate rich liberals, liberals hate other rich people, then try to use the government to take all of their stuff...and then call that "justice."
> ...




Germany, Russia, China, Cuba, Cambodia, Vietnam (although they are actually now embracing capitalism and becoming successful) .....anywhere else where you had unfettered socialism.........they left wants to do it here...but that damned Bill of Rights and Constitution keeps getting in the way....


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Bear in mind that sociologists state that the "paragon of capitalism" was.......the slave owner.



You still miss back in the day when "brown people" knew their place, huh?


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Pedro de San Patricio said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




Bullshit......it is not a 3rd way it is socialism....I know quite a bit about mussolini and fascism, nazism and communism..they are all forms of socialism...and depending on the facts on the ground and the strength of the leader you had more killing or less....


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...



I'm not sure how it's slowing them down.  John Roberts just opened a gaping hole getting one of the biggest anti-capitalist programs ever through, Obamacare.  And he did it twice


----------



## Lakhota (Aug 9, 2015)

Obama has been great for capitalism and Wall Street.  They love him!


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

Pedro de San Patricio said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Fascism is where businesses are technically in private hands, but they are government controlled.  That is one step away from full socialism and always leads there


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

Lakhota said:


> Obama has been great for capitalism and Wall Street.  They love him!



W was great for the poor, they love him!


----------



## ScienceRocks (Aug 9, 2015)

A pure capitalist is the furthest thing from freedom loving.
Dirty air
Dirty water
Old or bad food
No regulations on the market place
No workers rights
Only the rich can own anything or drive on any roads.
Only the rich can get weather warnings
Only the rich can send their kids to school

Pure capitalism sucks. It is a cult full of idiots like the pure socialism bunch!!!!!

Social-democracy of regulations of the private and public sector is best!


----------



## ScienceRocks (Aug 9, 2015)

kaz said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > Obama has been great for capitalism and Wall Street.  They love him!
> ...



He wasn't a complete asshole and he expected accountability. A fair president.


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Bear in mind that sociologists state that the "paragon of capitalism" was.......the slave owner.



Sociologists, LOL.

That statement is retarded.  Capitalism is just the term for economic freedom.  Being a slave is not freedom


----------



## ScienceRocks (Aug 9, 2015)

kaz said:


> Pedro de San Patricio said:
> 
> 
> > kaz said:
> ...




Idiiot, your idea of non-regulated market place is far worse. There's nothing wrong with investing in r&d and infrastructure for the public good.

Stupid fuck.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Aug 9, 2015)

kaz said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > Bear in mind that sociologists state that the "paragon of capitalism" was.......the slave owner.
> ...




Well, pure capitalism without government regulations always turns out making the workers a slave for the corporation. Anything that is pure is bad...


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> A pure capitalist is the furthest thing from freedom loving.
> Dirty air
> Dirty water
> Old or bad food
> ...



You don't know what capitalism is.  You are a testament to the woefully horrible job our government schools are doing to educate our people


----------



## ScienceRocks (Aug 9, 2015)

kaz said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > Bear in mind that sociologists state that the "paragon of capitalism" was.......the slave owner.
> ...




That was pure capitalism as other people had the choice to mistreat other human beings. Wtf are you talking about...holy shit!


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Lakhota said:
> ...



Actually W sucked


----------



## ScienceRocks (Aug 9, 2015)

kaz said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > A pure capitalist is the furthest thing from freedom loving.
> ...




I support capitalism but pure unregulated capitalism always turns bad. Your the one that doesn't have the slightest fucking clue about the abuses of capitalism...Look at corporations in China or south Asia today to see how ugly it is.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Pedro de San Patricio said:
> ...




You mean like all the public works projects that are filled with waste, fraud and abuse....look up "The Big Dig" and get back to us...


----------



## ScienceRocks (Aug 9, 2015)

kaz said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > kaz said:
> ...




Because he lived in reality and funded infrastructure, science, and wanted America to be a world power...because he didn't want to take us back to the 19th century.


----------



## peach174 (Aug 9, 2015)

Lakhota said:


> Obama has been great for capitalism and Wall Street.  They love him!




Correction
Crony Capitalism- because the Government was putting money into Wall Street, that is not true Capitalism.


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...



Why is freedom bad for workers?  You think they are stupid?


----------



## ScienceRocks (Aug 9, 2015)

Pedro de San Patricio said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




These idiots hate education so they don't understand anything.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Matthew said:
> ...




they are just now industrializing and haven't embraced capitalism yet.....you think 50 years or so is enough to become true capitalists considering they were communists through and through uniptil recently....we went through the industrial revolution and now they are.....we cleaned up after that initial foray and they will too...


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 9, 2015)




----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...



Nat is into race whoring, that point was for him specifically.

As capitalism, now can you mistreat people when they are free and can just leave?  That makes no sense


----------



## ScienceRocks (Aug 9, 2015)

peach174 said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > Obama has been great for capitalism and Wall Street.  They love him!
> ...




You wouldn't be here if it wasn't for government investment as the trading outpost and exploration of the 15th through 18th century was backed by government.

It isn't a bad thing. Most countries do it.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> A pure capitalist is the furthest thing from freedom loving.
> Dirty air
> Dirty water
> Old or bad food
> ...




and do we have any of those things now...no, we fixed them because capitalism made us wealthy enough to expect and demand more......

You truly are a product do democrat controlled public education...


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

rightwinger said:


>



Now for your Marxist street, replace "people's homes" with "party leadership" and tear down most of the houses and replace homeless people with "the rest"


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Bear in mind that sociologists state that the "paragon of capitalism" was.......the slave owner.




and that is bullshit...capitalism is the free exchange of goods and services...slavery is the exact opposite of that......


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Pedro de San Patricio said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Mussolini was a Marxist who realized the workers were not class conscious...

MODERN LEFTISM AS RECYCLED FASCISM


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Matthew said:
> ...



No, you hate capitalism.  Be honest.

And you are the one who keep adding terms I didn't say, like "pure" and "unregulated."  They are too subjective, maybe you could be more precise.  Is this another of those I'm not a Republican so I'm an anarchist bits?  I'm actually a small government libertarian, not a no government anarchist


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > I believe your photo caption has it entirely backwards. The socialist wants everyone to have an opportunity to live in a nice house. The capitalist doesn't give a damn how anyone else lives. That would be their problem.
> ...




Yeah...and then more people would have jobs building those new homes and the standard of living for everyone would go up.....


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Matthew said:
> ...



He loved government and spending and did it at every opportunity while punishing any actual fiscal conservative who tried to stand up to him


----------



## kiwiman127 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> kiwiman127 said:
> 
> 
> > There is nothing wrong with capitalism, just as long as it's not unfettered capitalism.
> ...



Unfettered capitalism brought us the S & L fiasco, Enron, WorldCom, and the Great Recession.
How'd that work out for the U.S. And a vast Majority of Americans?


----------



## Freewill (Aug 9, 2015)

friendlyfire said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



Other then it being ass backwards.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> FA_Q2 said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...




Not even close...that is how socialism starts.....the government and business get together until the government starts dictating to everyone...that is socialism...not the free exchange of goods and services which is what capitalism is....


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

kiwiman127 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > kiwiman127 said:
> ...



Right, when government controls markets, it was freedom that causes them to fail while they are being controlled, gotcha


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

kiwiman127 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > kiwiman127 said:
> ...




No...greedy politicians running the government brought us all of those things...and you guys want to give those same politicians more power to grant more protection to businesses just like that...that isn't capitalism...that is socialism.......

the government told banks to make bad loans...or they would be attacked by the Justice Dept. for discrimination.......politicians created that...


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 9, 2015)

kaz said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


Strawman


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Pedro de San Patricio said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....
> ...




Sorry...everyone lives better....American homes are better than homes in foreign countries.....our poor are richer than their middle class....and how does having people collecting money off of the government help the rich buy houses...did you think that through?


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Not according to your 93,000 posts


----------



## Clementine (Aug 9, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> The capitalist will say...I got mine, fuck everyone else



Clearly, you are not a capitalist.    Only a true socialist/communist/fascist would even say that.

That way of thinking is exactly what the OP was saying.   You see someone in a nice house and assume that they don't give a shit about anyone else.   You have a big chip on your shoulder and resent those who believe in capitalism and do well.   You really don't understand why some do well or why you don't have to be wealthy to live in a nice house.   The average middle class American has a nice house and car and they still work very hard for what they have.    Hell, our poor live better than the average people in other countries. 

Republicans donate more to charity than Democrats, which shows who cares about the poor.   There have been several threads/posts on that here in the forum, so don't ask for links.   Look them up. 

Dems want to confiscate wealth from others to win votes.   Repubs want people to actually elevate themselves and have shown a willingness to help them do that.   The left resents it when people seek independence from government.    You see, the right wants more people doing well and reducing the need of nanny government because big government is oppressive and ultimately keeps people down.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Aug 9, 2015)

The dirty unregulated rivers and air of China that has allowed corporations to do as they please is a modern display on how fucked your ideas are.


America and Europe use to be like this before government put in place intelligent regulations.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Aug 9, 2015)

Clementine said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > The capitalist will say...I got mine, fuck everyone else
> ...




Idiot, I  believe in social-democracy. What's that? Regulated capitalism and a public sector in areas that need it. Name a single first world country with a high per capita that isn't. Loserterism sucks.


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

Clementine said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > The capitalist will say...I got mine, fuck everyone else
> ...



If the left are the ones who support choice, why are they the ones who need to use force to get their way?


----------



## nat4900 (Aug 9, 2015)

kaz said:


> You really need to start paying attention when Democrats talk. Maybe put down the kool-aid first. The wealthy and businesses are blamed for everything in this country by Democrats just like you blame the "brown people"




Oh yeah....and we're DOUBLY pissed off at a wealthy AND "brown" person, right?.........................(WHAT AN IDIOT !!!!)


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> The dirty unregulated rivers and air of China that has allowed corporations to do as they please is a modern display on how fucked your ideas are.
> 
> 
> America and Europe use to be like this before government put in place intelligent regulations.




No....what happened was capitialism in America and Europe made people rich....rich people like clean things, nice things.....China is just now trying to shake off the worst type of socialism and so what they do isn't up to par yet...as soon as they let capitialism make their people rich, all of their people, then they will demand a cleaner environment....you look at the start of the wealth process and complain...wait till the end, and they will clean up just like we did....


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> Clementine said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



That's not what this means, "The capitalist will say...I got mine, fuck everyone else."  Why would I say that just because I earned what I have? 

Left wingers constantly justify taking money from people who earned it while you kick us in the teeth and blame us for wanting to keep money we earned


----------



## ScienceRocks (Aug 9, 2015)

kaz said:


> Clementine said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




What other way do we have clean air, water, food and workers rights? History proves without a shallow of a doubt that unregulated capitalism doesn't do that. Force is a part of life.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> The dirty unregulated rivers and air of China that has allowed corporations to do as they please is a modern display on how fucked your ideas are.
> 
> 
> America and Europe use to be like this before government put in place intelligent regulations.




You do realize that it was the Chinese government in control over there.....even now......and as more freedom develops and the government gets less power and has less ability to protect it's allies, things will be cleaned up....


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > You really need to start paying attention when Democrats talk. Maybe put down the kool-aid first. The wealthy and businesses are blamed for everything in this country by Democrats just like you blame the "brown people"
> ...



You keep citing the "brown people" as to why we need more welfare in this country.  That is blaming them


----------



## nat4900 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> they left wants to do it here...but that damned Bill of Rights and Constitution keeps getting in the way....



Yeah, nitwit.....and that is why we buy many US flags made in communist China?


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

kaz said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > Clementine said:
> ...




The left says "I got mine and I want yours too...but I will classify you as a greedy person and get the government to do it for me....."


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Clementine said:
> ...



WTF?  Why would we not have any of those in capitalism?  You really do trust government, naively so.

And again, the "unregulated" term is coming from you, not me.  And I asked you to define what you mean and you passed


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > they left wants to do it here...but that damned Bill of Rights and Constitution keeps getting in the way....
> ...



Um...it's cheaper.  That helps us build wealth, getting the same thing for less


----------



## HUGGY (Aug 9, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



"Fascism is often placed on the far-right within the traditional left–right spectrum, but some academics call that description inadequate".

Fascism - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

My focus on "fascism" is how Mussolini collaborated with the Italian industry to ensure power to both his political party and guaranteed business opportunities with the chosen industry and service companies.  

Certainly Mussolini operated his "fascist" party as a brutal force using intimidation and violence.  I can see why some may focus on the Fascist tactics that effected the people of Italy and the countries he invaded.  

Fascism under Mussolinii wasn't just one thing.  It was more a spectrum of aggressive political activities mostly centered around a general policy of coercion. I prefer to look deeper into the mechanics of the way Mussolini created the bonds with certain companies which to me was the heart of the power Mussolini wielded.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...




The government controlled the means of production....it was socialism.  Try to obfuscate that fact as much as you like in order to indict capitalism falsely....but fascism, nazism and communism are all different styles of socialism........that is all you need to say and it is completely accurate for all three...no 1000 word explanations are needed to hide the socialism in mussolini's italy or hitler's Germany...


----------



## nat4900 (Aug 9, 2015)

peach174 said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > Obama has been great for capitalism and Wall Street.  They love him!
> ...



Wall Street bankers LOVE capitalism when the market is bullish and equally love socialism when the market tanks.....


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

_Mussolini's own summary of the Fascist philosophy: "Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato" (Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State)_ 

Yeah...sounds like free exchange of goods and services...right?


----------



## ScienceRocks (Aug 9, 2015)

kaz said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...




Hope you enjoy buying a product that is made by people that get pennies for their work...What we need to do is tariff the shit out of china and close our market. We need to rely on American workers once more and pay them right.


----------



## nat4900 (Aug 9, 2015)

kaz said:


> Nat is into race whoring, that point was for him specifically.
> 
> As capitalism, now can you mistreat people when they are free and can just leave? That makes no sense




Is this idiot for real????? Kaz should go and debate a mirror.....perhaps then this crap would make sense.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> > Lakhota said:
> ...




they love the government protecting them......you guys support a larger government with more power in the hands of the very politicians you say give all the benefits and breaks to the corporations and Wall street that you hate....

Who is delusional now?  We want a limited government that doesn't favor one business or indivdual over another...your very beliefs make that the exact thing that happens...the politicians get more power from you which they then use to benefit their friends........


----------



## HUGGY (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > FA_Q2 said:
> ...



Capitalism is NOT the free exchange of goods and services.  Capitalism is predatory by nature.  I agree that a well regulated capitalism is the best system we can have but left to it's own devices with no regulation capitalism consumes as much as it can at as little cost as it can arrange.  It certainly is not some Utopian arrangement where all have free and fair access to get a piece of the pie.


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...



It is good for our economy, Holmes.   So tell me how you check where products are made and only buy the ones made here if you have that choice...


----------



## nat4900 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> _Mussolini's own summary of the Fascist philosophy: "Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato" (Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State)_
> 
> Yeah...sounds like free exchange of goods and services...right?




No, nitwit....Mussolini wanted the entire Italian industry to be on war-footing preparing that country (like the Rumsfelds and the Cheneys) for self-aggrandizing invasions and colonialism of other countries.


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Nat is into race whoring, that point was for him specifically.
> ...



You jumped in and supported the "brown people" argument, Holmes.  That race is driving our positions is retarded, but it is the game you chose to play


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > _Mussolini's own summary of the Fascist philosophy: "Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato" (Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State)_
> ...



You compare Mussolini and Cheney?  You are truly an idiot


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...




No...captialism has to ask, what can I do to make your life better.......because when you do that you make lots and lots of money....just ask APPLE...and Wal Mart....

Socialism never has to ask that because the government stooge in charge of toilet paper gets his supply and then doesn't care if you get yours...ask the people in Venezuela today how that works out....


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > _Mussolini's own summary of the Fascist philosophy: "Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato" (Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State)_
> ...




And how did he do that...by controlling the means of production you twit..........just like the socialists in Germany and Russia and China...


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



I think you're a little late, Marx already covered that, Comrade.  

Capitalism keeps itself in check.  Companies that misbehave are punished by consumers and employees in free markets.  Only government can warp markets because only government can use force to compel people to do things that are not in their interest because only government can use force


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

kaz said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...




Exactly......when the government politician controls who gets permits and who doesn't, you can have the best product in the world...but it ain't gonna fly.........


----------



## nat4900 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> And how did he do that...by controlling the means of production you twit..........just like the socialists in Germany and Russia and China...




Right over your half brain......You and Kaz should get together and use the halves that each of you posses........Both of you aren't worth the time and space.


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 9, 2015)

kaz said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > kaz said:
> ...


Deflection


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



You don't know what that means, obviously.  You realize you're on the internet, you can google words you don't know, no?


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > And how did he do that...by controlling the means of production you twit..........just like the socialists in Germany and Russia and China...
> ...




Yes, we know the truth, and reality and will not just accept your lies and lack of understanding about capitalism and socialism...so you are getting frustrated.....luckily we live in the United States...because the socialists in other countries like to dig mass graves for those who don't "get" the wonders of socialism.....


----------



## Lakhota (Aug 9, 2015)

Unfettered capitalism is as destructive as unfettered socialism.  Both need regulated.  An optimum combination of both is best.


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 9, 2015)

kaz said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > kaz said:
> ...



So you come back with a Strawman


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Lakhota said:


> Unfettered capitalism is as destructive as unfettered socialism.  Both need regulated.  An optimum combination of both is best.




Unfettered socialism murdered 100 million people around the world...for no other reason than they had 1 penny more than someone else.....


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Pickle juice


----------



## Lakhota (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > Unfettered capitalism is as destructive as unfettered socialism.  Both need regulated.  An optimum combination of both is best.
> ...



Can't you read?


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

Lakhota said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Lakhota said:
> ...



I think he got lost when you said socialism needs to be regulated.  What does that even mean?  Government regulating itself?


----------



## ScienceRocks (Aug 9, 2015)

Lakhota said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Lakhota said:
> ...




Nope,,,they want the 1% to have all the wealth and be able to destroy our environment like they did in China. Fucking insanity!


----------



## ScienceRocks (Aug 9, 2015)

kaz said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...




Dude, there isn't two choices too this...There's also a middle ground and other shades of government control...damn...

We need regulations and that is a fact of live.


----------



## Lakhota (Aug 9, 2015)

kaz said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...



Are you really that stupid - or just flaming?  Are you suggesting that American socialism is  unregulated?

75 Ways Socialism Has Improved America


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Lakhota said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Lakhota said:
> ...




Capitalism created the wealth that made people want to make changes for the better...when you are poor...you are only concerned about today...when capitalism makes you wealthy...then you think about tomorrow, and a cleaner, nicer today...


----------



## Lakhota (Aug 9, 2015)

Some interesting death toll statistics:

The Death Tolls of Socialism And Capitalism - Sciforums


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Lakhota said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Lakhota said:
> ...




Those aren't socialism ....many of those are in the General Welfare Clause of the Constitution...and the ones that aren't, are making this country worse.....social security..really, where we take money from today's workers, who will get nothing, to pay for benefits of workers already retired.......it is full of waste, fraud and theft...and is going belly up...and will crash....

Leave it to lefties to lie......


----------



## NYcarbineer (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....



There is no capitalist dominated country where everyone lives like that.  Capitalists don't believe that everyone should live like that.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Lakhota said:


> Some interesting death toll statistics:
> 
> The Death Tolls of Socialism And Capitalism - Sciforums




More crap......governemnt policies that aren't capitalist are blamed for famines......

And of course let's ignore the 100 million people outright murdered by socialists.......as well as the deaths from bad government policy....


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

NYcarbineer said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....
> ...




No...capitalists don't care that people live like that.....socialists don't believe everyone should live like that...that is why they murder so many people who don't believe like they do....


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 9, 2015)

NYcarbineer said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....
> ...


Capitalist refuse to pay the wages for people to live like that
They refuse to pay a wage where most people can live without government support


----------



## ScienceRocks (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...




The extremes suck...We're a better nation because of roads, police, clean air, water and food. Goddamn the extremes.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Aug 9, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...




Instead the 1% chooses to offshore to South Asia so they can make millions more, while our middle class fades into history.


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Lakhota said:
> ...



And you need to dance around what "regulation" means.  

Government needs to provide police, criminal and civil courts, those are all resources you need in capitalism.  Government does not need to control the economy as you leftists always want it to do dictating wages, benefits, etc. between employers and employees and controlling capital markets.  That is just socialism


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

Lakhota said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Lakhota said:
> ...



Now that's classic, you called me stupid or flaming then completely failed to grasp my simple point


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



Yes, comrade, the bourgeois is oppressing the proletariat.  You mentioned that, Karl.

So riddle me this, Batman.  If the middle class don't buy products in this country so they benefit from the cheaper prices we wealthy get from the lower prices off-shoring enables, where do they shop?  Alpha Centauri?


----------



## NYcarbineer (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...





kaz said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > kaz said:
> ...



Why shouldn't the government have power in the economy?

Nobody commits economic crimes?  Nobody exploits others for money?

If anything, a democratic government's power should be concentrated on the economy.

Money is the root of all evil.  Remember?


----------



## NYcarbineer (Aug 9, 2015)

kaz said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > kaz said:
> ...



Your stupidity was well established long before this thread came about.


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > kaz said:
> ...



It's a lot easier for them to create a boogie man to whine about and blame their sucky lives on than it is to just bust their ass and make it on their own


----------



## NYcarbineer (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > Some interesting death toll statistics:
> ...



How many Americans has public education murdered?


----------



## francoHFW (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....


 Sure does. GOPers are ignorant fools brainwashed by propaganda funded by greedy idiot Pub billionaires. A disgrace. Change the channel.


----------



## The Rabbi (Aug 9, 2015)

Lakhota said:


> Unfettered capitalism is as destructive as unfettered socialism.  Both need regulated.  An optimum combination of both is best.


There is no such thing a unfettered capitalism.  Capitalism by nature has restraints.


----------



## HUGGY (Aug 9, 2015)

kaz said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...



Nonsense.  Walmart has done enormous harm to countless small communities by it's predatory practices.  Mitt Romney destroyed the lives of thousands of hard working Americans by taking advantage of companies that were going through difficult times.  Staples is one of the few examples of Romney actually saving a company but he did it off the backs of the employees reducing pay and benefits.  Romney's business practices are only in place to benefit Romney at a very high cost to the companies that have the bad judgement to get involved with him.  Even in a society that attempts to protect workers and companies from unfair practices vampires like Mitt Romney will fix the system and find ways to take unfair advantage.


----------



## HUGGY (Aug 9, 2015)

The Rabbi said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > Unfettered capitalism is as destructive as unfettered socialism.  Both need regulated.  An optimum combination of both is best.
> ...



That statement is utter nonsense.  Capitalism's nature is to have NO restraints.  Restraints must be imposed on capitalism from outside sources.


----------



## Lakhota (Aug 9, 2015)

The Rabbi said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > Unfettered capitalism is as destructive as unfettered socialism.  Both need regulated.  An optimum combination of both is best.
> ...



Other than government - who would "restrain" unfettered capitalism?  Jamie Dimon?  Lloyd Blankfein?


----------



## Lakhota (Aug 9, 2015)

Government is the law that prevents capitalists from killing off humans like mine mules.  Pure capitalism would love not to have government controls - instead they would like to control the police to protect their unfettered greed and exploitation of human and material resources.


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



You know zero about business or the economy, I'd stick to your sewing club


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

The Rabbi said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > Unfettered capitalism is as destructive as unfettered socialism.  Both need regulated.  An optimum combination of both is best.
> ...



Yes, it checks itself.  If businesses, consumers or employees misbehave, they lose out


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

kaz said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > Lakhota said:
> ...



You only think it's "funny" because you are so clueless.  If a business misbehaves it's competitors take it's business.  If an employee is unreasonable they price themselves out of employment until they ask what they are worth, if a consumer won't pay enough then no one will sell to them.

What you think is "capitalism" is an irrational boogie man in your head that you use to justify socialism to assuage your hysterical fear of running your own life


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....


And a pragmatic person knows that living in that community will restrict your property rights...


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 9, 2015)

kaz said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > Lakhota said:
> ...


Now days with the regulations, they will, but not so much before the era of regulations...


----------



## Socialist (Aug 9, 2015)

Sad thread.. I'm done with this stupid shit.


----------



## The Rabbi (Aug 9, 2015)

Lakhota said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > Lakhota said:
> ...


Read my post, idjit.


----------



## The Rabbi (Aug 9, 2015)

Socialist said:


> Sad thread.. I'm done with this stupid shit.


Tell me you're leaving this board. Please!


----------



## Darkwind (Aug 9, 2015)

TheOldSchool said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....
> ...


Pointing out the hypocrisy of rich liberals is NOT hate...


----------



## Votto (Aug 9, 2015)

TheOldSchool said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....
> ...



Yea, I hate'em.

Filth like Trump gives to Progs across the nation to enable them to hold public orifice.

Thanks for that.

it's the best government money can buy.


----------



## Davey T (Aug 9, 2015)

friendlyfire said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


The liberal cartoon would be true if, ultimately, nobody could see over the fence except the person who put up the fence in the first place.  He would be on the other side proud of himself that he made everyone equal.


----------



## Davey T (Aug 9, 2015)

Darkwind said:


> TheOldSchool said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


Socialists believe they are so morally superior when what they do does nothing but destroy.  Just look at Detroit, Baltimore or any city run by Democrats.  It is just like the old Soviet Union; bleak, sad, gray and dreary with no hope.  But everyone is equal (except the leaders).


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Davey T said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> > TheOldSchool said:
> ...




Here are more photos...the socialist paradise of East Germany and then after they gave up most of that crap.....

Astonishing East German Renovation 36 pics - Izismile.com







2003





1990





2001


0
 



1991


----------



## NYcarbineer (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....



Does the capitalist who owns that house pay his gardener and housekeeper enough to have the same house?


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...



Liberals like to use the word "regulation" without actually committing to what you are referring to.


----------



## Darkwind (Aug 9, 2015)

NYcarbineer said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....
> ...


Does the gardener and housekeeper have advanced degrees?


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

NYcarbineer said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....
> ...




I would say not....but when the gardener or the housekeeper gets a job that can afford that house?  They can get that house....because in a capitalist society they can change their life circumstances and become more than what they started out as....while in socialism...not so much...they are a gardener or a housekeeper for life...


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

T


Darkwind said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...




The cool thing about a capitialist society...you don't need an advanced degree..as you would need in Europe or a socialist country to get a good government job.....you can start a business and become a millionaire........just by working real hard at doing something someone needs done that you can do better than the other guy...

That is the miracle of Capitalism........


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

I don't see capitalists doing much for the homeless when their are plenty of homes available...


2aguy said:


> T
> 
> 
> Darkwind said:
> ...


European countries are generally social democracies, a mixture of capitalism and socialism, yes, you can start a business and become a millionaire in any first world country, if you're lucky, have start up capital, etc, etc.. Tons of people are trying to move up and only a few will, they're all hard working, only a few will become the millionaires. There is nothing wrong with capitalism if it is regulated.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...



Under socialism the gardener and housekeeper get affordable healthcare and education.  Under capitalism they're on their own.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > Lakhota said:
> ...




Competition is the only restraint that works.......that and the fact for a captialist to succeed....he has to make people happy.....

The government bureaucrat in charge of toilet paper has no one to make sure he does his job right...and the state runs out of toilet paper...ask Venezuela...


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

NYcarbineer said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...


This is true, especially in european countries that have social democracies, with universal healthcare and affordable education.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> I don't see capitalists doing much for the homeless when their are plenty of homes available...
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> ...




They are beginning to collapse...people are not working and they are running out of tax money to fund their welfare paradises...that is why they have to import so many foreign workers.....


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...


This doesn't fit reality, early 20th century america/europe, and going back to the dawn of capitalism, conditions were very bad for the workers, no safety laws, capitalists violently fighting labor organizing, children working to get a loaf of bread... The government had to step in.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...




There healthcare and education is not affordable...they are running both into the ground....they were just lucky to have previous, hard working generations to pay up to now...now they have made their kids lazy and they don't have the work ethic.....


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't see capitalists doing much for the homeless when their are plenty of homes available...
> ...


I don't think they are beginning to collapse at all, people are working there, want to discuss the employment rates? Welfare paradises? What does that even mean? 
List of countries by unemployment rate - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...


They are entirely affordable, it's why european countries generally have longer life expectancies and happier citizens, they spend less on healthcare/education then america, and get better results. "previous, hard working generations.." How do you judge that all european kids are lazy? How do you make a basis for any of your claims?


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...




Yeah...the switch from the misery of a manual labor agrarian culture to an industrial one was messy...why?  Because it had never happened before.....now we have people with rock climbing walls at work........things do not change over night and things are not made perfect over night....it has taken us this long to get where we are and we have cleaned up the environment, and work conditions are excellent for even the most manual of laborers.....

And what made all those safety laws, and improvements....captialism...people became wealthier than ever before, and they demanded more from their lives...because they had money to make it happen.........

Socialism destroys innovation and achievement........


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...




Dig past the left wing propaganda....

Notice the source....not right wing is it....

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/16/why-denmark-is-shrinking-its-social-safety-net/?_r=0


It shows that between 2005-7, the number of people who got jobs during their four years of benefits — the green line – rose at the beginning before dropping sharply, then spiked as benefits were about to run out, only to plummet after. The red line shows similar behavior in 1998, when Denmark’s benefit period was five years.

“It shows that people are not seeking all the jobs they could get, but just the jobs they would like to have,” said Steen Bocian, chief economist at Danske Bank.

That luxury has become too dear as Denmark exits a two-year downturn.

In addition to halving the unemployment benefits period, the government is pinning high hopes on job activation programs, one of the three pillars in Denmark’s famed “flexicurity” model. Employers have carte blanche to hire and fire, and in turn, the jobless are guaranteed benefits if they attend retraining and job placement programs tailored to prepare them for work where labor is scarce.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....



Why would anyone want a house like that even if you can afford it?  It's a monstrosity.  It's a giant lawn ornament.


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


 They switched from feudalism in europe to industrial capitalism, the conditions were just as bad, until regulations were put into place. Oh, on the contrarian, it happened in europe, and then in america, we got here because of regulated capitalism and the people organizing, now we have safety regulations, labor laws, taxes, roads, public education, medicare, social security.... Socialism destroys innovation? We've already established that america is a mix of capitalism and socialism, your claim doesn't fit reality.


----------



## Lakhota (Aug 9, 2015)

Republicans have been the biggest driver of our national debt.


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


So cited sources on wikipedia are left wing propaganda but a website you show me isn't right wing propaganda? That's from 2010, nothing is perfect.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...




Listening to reports on the fact that they have to import foreign labor......since their kids don't want to work...


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...




Yeah....last I heard the New York times wasn't a right wing source.......try again...


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

NYcarbineer said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....
> ...


Why does anyone need a house like that?


----------



## Lakhota (Aug 9, 2015)

Why don't capitalist want to pay their fair share of taxes - or any taxes?


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...




Yeah tell me again how the welfare states aren't in trouble.....

French unemployment rising to record high Business DW.COM 01.06.2015


Of particular concern is the percentage of long-term unemployed, which has grown by more than 10 percent in a year.

According to Europe's statistics agency, Eurostat, unemployment rate in France hovered at about 10.6 percent in March this year, more than twice as much as in Germany, which recorded a jobless rate of 4.7 percent.


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


I never said it was, I explicitly said: "isn't right wing?." I can care less about the bias of a particular site, it's the data and the facts that matter.


----------



## Darkwind (Aug 9, 2015)

NYcarbineer said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...


Yep...they are free to succeed and not be held back by socialists demanding that they take care of those who won't do for themselves.


----------



## Lakhota (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...



It looks like a Pee-wee Herman house.


----------



## Darkwind (Aug 9, 2015)

Lakhota said:


> Republicans have been the biggest driver of our national debt.


Only partially correct, and not for the reasons you think.


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 9, 2015)

kaz said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > kaz said:
> ...


Be ignorant if you so desire then...


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


How does a single period in france indicate that "welfare" states are in trouble, when germany/etc are doing just fine? Socio-economic landscapes change constantly, it's intellectually dishonest to cherry pick, and you know it is.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Lakhota said:


> Why don't capitalist want to pay their fair share of taxes - or any taxes?




Why do you lefties always lie and say we don't want to pay any taxes....that is you guys...you bitch and moan about the greedy rich not paying their fair share of taxes...and then you don't pay yours....just look at all the lefties on MSNBC who didn't pay their taxes.....like al "tawana Brawley" sharpton....

We want to pay just enough to pay for government services that are required for living in a civil society...

You guys want to give corrupt, greedy politicians, who use any tax money they get to reward themselves and their friends and who use that tax money to increase their own power.......

that makes no sense at all since all you guys do is bitch about corporations getting government hand outs....who do you think is giving them the hand outs...the politicians who you want to give increasing amounts of our tax dollars to...

How does that make any sense?


----------



## Lakhota (Aug 9, 2015)

Most welfare states are red states.


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


It did not seem to inhibit Nazi Germany...


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > Why don't capitalist want to pay their fair share of taxes - or any taxes?
> ...


One african american on msnbc not paying some taxes has nothing to do with capitalists always looking to pay the lowest in taxes.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...




Not Cherry picking...look at the deep numbers.....birth rates, job growth, and you cherry pick the one  workaholic country in Europe who has half the country that just got out from under socialism and are looking to live the life of freedom.....


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...




Yeah it did......look at innovation...they only had it in war machines and that wouldn't last......just like the soviet union had top notch military jets....but couldn't feed their people...


----------



## HUGGY (Aug 9, 2015)

kaz said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > kaz said:
> ...



You know zero on how to conduct yourself in a rational reasonable discussion.  Your position must feel weak for you to resort to name calling and insult.

I have owned several companies some successful, some not.  A startup can be difficult for many reasons some foreseen and some not.  You don't know how much I have risked.  Stop being glib and juvenile.  It exposes your lack of real knowledge on this subject.


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


Which country are we talking about here? France? 
2.01 births per woman (2012) - France
"
*France* has the world's sixth-largest economy by nominal figures and the ninth largest economy by PPP figures.[9] It has the third-largest economy in Europe with Germany and the UK in 1st and 2nd.[10] OECD is headquartered in Paris, the nation's financial capital.

The chemical industry is a key sector for France, helping to develop other manufacturing activities and contributing to economic growth.[11] France's tourism industry is a major component of the economy, as France is the most visited destination in the world.[12][13] In 2010, Credit Suisse's _Global Wealth Report_ ranked France the wealthiest European country with 2.6 million dollar-millionaires, and the world's 4th wealthiest[14] nation[15] in aggregate household wealth. According to the IMF, in 2013, France was the world's 20th country by GDP per capita with $44,099 per inhabitant. In 2013, France was listed on the United Nations's Human Development Index with 0.884 (very high human development) and 25th on the Corruption Perceptions Index.

After the turn of the millennium, wealth per adult grew very strongly in France, tripling in value between 2000 and 2007. France's economy entered the recession of the late 2000s later and appeared to leave it earlier than most affected economies, only enduring four-quarters of contraction.[16] However, France experienced stagnant growth between 2012 and 2014, with the economy growing by 0% in 2012, 0.8% in 2013 and 0.2% in 2014, though growth picked up sharply in Q1 2015, as the economy expanded by 0.6%.[17]
"
Germany has uhc, virtually free education, maternity leave, etc..


----------



## Darkwind (Aug 9, 2015)

In America, a housemaid of little means can start a maid service business and make a thousand dollars in the first month...

In the second, he or she could triple the number of customers who need that service and now they are raking in 3 grand a month..

In the third month, they can add 1.5 times the number of clients they have and bring their total work hours up to 50 per week, and make 4.5k per month......

After that, they'll need a bit of training to understand how the socialists will now begin to take money from the extra help they have to hire to help them expand even more.  It takes the wages of the new employee, and the associated taxes, plus the taxes of the housemaid to pay for the unnecessary programs that the socialists want...

So now, instead of expanding at the rate of 1.5 new clients a month....that is slowed to .3 clients a month...

Yet, the expansion continues...and after two years, that house maid is now able to afford the very house that morons like carby says is not fair that the original employer has....

Oops...


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...




Because they like the space, the look or any number of factors....and right there...you show why you socialists can never let go of the mass graves...because the real serious socialists know that some people will always want a house like that....and they will upset the apple cart with that kind of thinking...so they get out their shovels...and their guns....the guns you guys only want the government to have....


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


The soviet union did alot more then develop military jets.. 
List of space exploration milestones 1957 1969 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


The russians have historically been unable to feed their people, even under monarchies...And the nazi's had more than a war machine but a economic system which defied capitalist control.


----------



## Lakhota (Aug 9, 2015)

Capitalists like to "game the system" to avoid regulations and dodge paying taxes.

*Gaming the system* (also referred to as *gaming the rules*, *bending the rules*, *abusing the system*, *cheating the system*, *milking the system*, *playing the system*, or *working the system*) can be defined as using the rules and procedures meant to protect a system in order, instead, to manipulate the system for a desired outcome.[1]

Gaming the system - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...


Mass graves, i suppose the many religious wars hurt no one?


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...


Why are you assuming I support mass graves? I'm a social democrat, I want nothing to do with authoritarian socialism, who says I support banning guns? I agree that assault weapons should be banned in cities, but that's about it.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...




Like I said you have to look deeper....

France the new sick man of Europe World news The Guardian

Hollande has three interlocking problems. Problem number one is that France is becoming less competitive within the eurozone and the wider global economy. Business costs are high and productivity is weak. France's industrial base has been subject to less hollowing out than Britain's but the recent deterioration in the French trade deficit tells its own story.


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...


It's a preconceived notion of debate..


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


That article does nothing to refute the facts. France's growth picked up in 2015, it left the late recession of the 2000's earlier. It had stagnant growth in 2012-2014 but now it's getting back on it's feet, every country experiences bad times and good times.


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


Beginning to see that quite a few members of this site have no interest in actual debate.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...




I'm sure you don't support mass graves....the belief system you support will lead to them....that's the problem..your system is based in jealousy of those with more.....and eventually, when the system is stressed, the worst of your kind will take over....and where you simply question the need of someone wanting a house that big...they will make it a policy of taking that house from that person.....

Why should assault weapons be banned.....they kill fewer people than knives or empty hands....ban those first...


----------



## The Rabbi (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> I don't see capitalists doing much for the homeless when their are plenty of homes available...
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> ...


No that's really not true.  The very high and steeply progressive tax rates keep people from becoming very wealthy.  That's why people come here.  Or used to
Where is the equivalent of Sergey Brin and Bill Gates in Europe?


----------



## idb (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....


Heh...your cartoon understanding of politics is so adorable!


----------



## sealybobo (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....


Wouldn't the Republican position be a communist one?

And you are wrong about the democratic position. They just want an environment where getting a house like that is possible.

I feel sorry for the next generation. Higher student loans lower pay less or no pension or social security and higher medicare costs if medicare isn't privatized then don't expect to die with anything left.


----------



## Lakhota (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...



Typical business cycle phases.


----------



## The Rabbi (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...


That really omits a lot of history.  Sure by our standards things looked bad.  But it represented an improvement for people at the time, who largely fled rural areas and starvation.  They could at least find work and support themselves.


----------



## Darkwind (Aug 9, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...


Many?   You can name these religious wars?


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


What are you talking.. ugh. Social democracies exist in many countries, a mixture of capitalism and regulations/government run programs/strong labor rights. NEVER have mass graves arose in these places, at all, mass graves are caused by people from all sides of the political spectrum, not just authoritarian socialists. Socialism is not based in jealousy, the word goes back to refer to many things, the modern american term usually refers to public ownership, usually through the government, and things such as UHC, maternity leave, food stamps, etc.. If so, I am a socialist in that way. The system gets stressed and the worst take over? That can happen on any political spectrum. In large, crowded cities, there is no reason to have an assault weapon, apart from mowing down people in a fast matter.


----------



## The Rabbi (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...


They have huge structural unemployment issues, especially among the Muslims, who are the only growing part of the population.  European birth reates are well below replacement.


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

Darkwind said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


Thirty years war
French wars of religion
Second sudanese civil war
Crusades
Lebanese civil war
etc..


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

The Rabbi said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


Every country has structural unemployment, countries go through shifting socio-economic conditions constantly, what do muslims have to do with this? There is nothing wrong with muslims: "According to the Pew Research Center, Europe's population was 6% Muslim in 2010, and is projected to be 8% Muslim by 2030"
If you see something wrong with that, what a shame. How are they below replacement? I need you to elaborate.


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 9, 2015)

Darkwind said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...



Conflicts immediately connected with the Reformation of the 1520s to 1540s:
The German Peasants' War (1524–1525)
The battle of Kappel in Switzerland (1531)
The Schmalkaldic War (1546–1547) in the Holy Roman Empire

The Eighty Years' War (1568–1648) in the Low Countries
The French Wars of Religion (1562–1598)
The Thirty Years' War (1618–1648), affecting the Holy Roman Empire including Habsburg Austria and Bohemia, France,Denmark and Sweden
The Wars of the Three Kingdoms (1639–1651), affecting England, Scotland and Ireland
Scottish Reformation and Civil Wars
English Reformation and Civil War
Irish Confederate Wars and the Cromwellian conquest of Ireland

There are more for you to deny...
European wars of religion - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## The Rabbi (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


Who are you to judge what someone needs? IN any case half the crap people buy are unneeded. So what?


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...




And they still didn't feed their people or have a modern society...astronauts, olympic gymnasts and party officials made out like kings...the common people...not so much...

I have a friend that went to Russia during the cold war...he was warned to keep his pass port handy because he couldn't get into a foreign guest hotel without it.....why?  Because they had all the luxuries of the west in there....sort of.....and they needed to keep out the regular Russian citizens.......

I remember my first realization about Russia....and how bad it sucked.....i was watching the olympics with my family and an American pairs figure skating team came on....during some competition in Russia during the cold war, she cracked her head on the ice and had to go to the hospital....her team left her coach stayed with her.

They didn't have sheets on the beds, the patients had to share needles, they didn't have antibiotics or pain medicine  the mattresses were stained...and not clean.....

She was saved because a Russian figure skater, who was a friend, came in with his coach and his medical supplies from his private stash...which he got because he was on the olympic team..he brought sheets, needles, medicines, blankets........

That was my first knowledge of socialism...and how badly it sucked....


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

The Rabbi said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


This doesn't omit a lot of history, it was this way for decades with little to no change before the government stepped in, labor fought a long hard battle and helped to bring in regulations/etc... They were horrible, truly horrible, might as well say the soviet union was a good place because it brought a country out of feudalism into something better, sure, it looked bad, but pfft, everyone had a job. Yeah, support themselves with a loaf of bread and kids working 50 hours a weeks.


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


I don't even like russia, nor the soviet union.


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

The Rabbi said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...


I can have a personal opinion, it was a question in the context of this thread. Agreed, consumerism is a stupid thing.


----------



## idb (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


No, it was your first knowledge of Russia.


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 9, 2015)

and don't forget the Crusades all of them...just think of all the deaths before reformation...


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...




Yeah...they weren't industrial and not capitalist at the time were they.........and the atheists murdered 100 million people in the modern age, not in the medieval ages or the 1600s  right?  The atheists did their mass murder.......not war casualties...but mass murder for their beliefs, in 1939 onward............not religions in the 1600s and before.....in the most modern industrial nations of the world......mass murder in the 100 million level.....without any religious motivation...


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > Darkwind said:
> ...


Make whatever excuses you want to try and make your opinion the only one...


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> and don't forget the Crusades all of them...just think of all the deaths before reformation...




You would compare the reaction to muslim aggression in the middle ages...to  modern nation states, industrial, scientific nations in 1939 mass murdering people not because of war deaths....but becaue they simply mass murdered people  in atheist countries.......


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > Darkwind said:
> ...


We were talking about mass graves and wars of all types and now we're switching to industrial wars? Atheists murdered 100 million people? Oh please, do you want to be a dishonest person and claim all christians are going to slaughter muslims because the crusades happened? There are good people who live without religion and bad people who live without religion, it says nothing about atheism if stalin was a horrid man and atheist.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...




You are the one comparing people of the 1600s with the people in modern Germany, Russia, China, Cambodia, Cuba, vietnam........


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...



Uh...no...that is what Moonglow is saying....atheism murdered 100 million people around the world in modern times...not medieval times...


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


Atheism murdered no body just like christianity, both ideas, murdered no body, evil people murder other people, not all christians are bad people, just like not all atheists are bad people.


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > and don't forget the Crusades all of them...just think of all the deaths before reformation...
> ...


But the USSR was not an atheist country, since the Eastern Orthodox Church was still operating in the USSR..


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

The Rabbi said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't see capitalists doing much for the homeless when their are plenty of homes available...
> ...




That is the key...bill gates and warren buffet and wal mart....they want high tax rates...because it keeps small businesses from becoming their competitors...warren buffet also has companies that do estate planning and that is more profitable when the tax rates are excessive....buffet and gates also hide all of their money in their foundations as they claim to be giving it to charity when they die and yell for higher taxes...on everyone else.....


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...


They want high tax rates, and walmart doesn't want higher taxes, LOL. 
Gates/buffet want higher taxes on the really wealthy, not small businesses. Jesus christ.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...




You do know that "assault rifles" kill fewer people than knives and hands and fists right?  and that they are rarely used in crime or mass shootings...right?   And in countries in Europe with extreme gun control criminals get "assault weapons" and grenades and pistols easily...right?


----------



## Darkwind (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...


So, from 1618 and 1648......
and
from 1562–98

Oh, the Sudanese civil war.....is a civil war....yes?  





> The *Second Sudanese Civil War* was a conflict from 1983 to 2005 between the central *Sudanese* government and the *Sudan* People's Liberation Army. It was largely a continuation of the First *Sudanese Civil War* of 1955 to 1972.


Not much religion going on there, eh?

Crusades?  You sensing a theme yet? 
1091 to 1291....

Lebonese Civil War.......again with a civil war and not a religious one?

So, lets add them up....11m for your first...
I can't find a quick total for the second...lets give it 11m as well
2m people
the crusades...difficult to pin down an exact number...lets say 1m
lebanese civil war...120k...

Grand total over 1000 years....26 million...

Secular humanists in the past 100 years.......110 million..

Want to try that again?


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...




You don't know gates and buffet......they don't pay their taxes......they hide their money in their foundations where they get huge tax advantages.....


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Darkwind said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > Darkwind said:
> ...




As famous movie socialist "Hanz Landa" said...."That's a bingo...."


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


I know this, but you're a delusional person if you think a knife can murder 15 people in a matter of minutes without the man with the knife being stopped. Europe has lower crime rates.
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 9, 2015)

Darkwind said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > Darkwind said:
> ...


It took humans how many years to reach 100, 000, 000 in population upon the Earth, versus how many years it took humans to reach 6 billion?


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


Gates actually helps people, so does buffet.


----------



## Darkwind (Aug 9, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...


Care to make a more non-relevant comparison?

Fact the facts....humanists have killed more people in the past 100 years than all of religion in ALL OF HUMAN HISTORY....


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

Darkwind said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > Darkwind said:
> ...


"Some sources describe the conflict as an ethnoreligious one where the Muslim central government's pursuits to impose sharia law on non-Muslim southerners led to violence, and eventually to the civil war.[6][7][8][9] Douglas Johnson has pointed to an exploitative governance as the root cause.[10]"
Secular humanists killed 110 million? What a dishonest hack.


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 9, 2015)

Stalin was raised to be a priest and Adolf was a Catholic....doesn't sound like they were secular rulers...


----------



## Darkwind (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...


Bully for those sources....

It does not change My totals as I included them anyway...Of course, all of that is a rough approximation....I'm sure we can give or take a few million people either way..


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...




It's true....Germany, Russia, china, Cuba, Vietnam, Cambodia.......add up their murder as atheists and it is close to if not over 100 million.......in the modern age...by men with modern educations....


----------



## Darkwind (Aug 9, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> Stalin was raised to be a priest and Adolf was a Catholic....doesn't sound like they were secular rulers...


How they were raised has nothing to do with how they governed.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> Stalin was raised to be a priest and Adolf was a Catholic....doesn't sound like they were secular rulers...




yeah...but they murdered people as atheists, not as catholics.....they renounced religion and hated Christians.....


----------



## Darkwind (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > Darkwind said:
> ...


I didn't even include the 50+ million by the Asians....


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

Darkwind said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > Darkwind said:
> ...


Sources are the clickable numbers bud.
It's intellectually dishonest to attempt to attribute humanism to stalin/etc.. Want me to call hitler a christian? You could argue either way.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...




As does Wal Mart.....I like what Gates does, and buffet...but they are assholes when they call for higher taxes while they hide their money in their foundations...if they believed their crap they would write massive checks to the government on tax day......they don't....


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 9, 2015)

Darkwind said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...


So Buddhism is not a religion?


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...




No you can't, hitler was an atheist.......the nazi party were atheists or pagans.....Germans were non practicing Christians for the most part...


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


Walmart helps people? LOL. Sure, sure, back that up.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...




Mao wasn't a budhist...he was a socialist/atheist and murdered 70 million people...


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


Apparently they are wasting their time going to a Christian church also, one that advocates giving away your accumulated wealth to enter heaven...


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > Darkwind said:
> ...


"Hitler wrote: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: _by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord_.." As a boy, Hitler attended to the Catholic church and experienced the anti-Semitic attitude of his culture. In his book, Mein Kampf, Hitler reveals himself as a fanatical believer in God and country. This text presents selected quotes from the infamous anti-Semite himself."


----------



## Darkwind (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...


You can call them anything you want.  History paints them as humanists..People who believed that God was not involved in human  affairs or non existent....In other words, they believed in their own philosophy above that of religion......and they have killed more humans in the past century than all religions combined in all of human history.

The numbers don't lie....


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...




Really......you answer like that....I shop there all the time they employ thousands of people and make lives better all over the country...you lefties really can't see the truth or reality can you?


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

Darkwind said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > Darkwind said:
> ...


History doesn't paint them as humanists, you paint them as humanists.
Hitler:
"Hitler wrote: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: _by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord_.." As a boy, Hitler attended to the Catholic church and experienced the anti-Semitic attitude of his culture. In his book, Mein Kampf, Hitler reveals himself as a fanatical believer in God and country. This text presents selected quotes from the infamous anti-Semite himself."
I won't blame christianity though.


----------



## Darkwind (Aug 9, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...


Never heard that one.....At its height...religion advocates 10%.....which is why I am not a member of any formal or organized religion.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...




Yeah....right...one thing he said for public consumption, read what his inner circle said about his real beliefs...


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


LOL. What do their workers get paid? Maternity leave? Health benefits? Walmart crushes small businesses, and rely on third world labor to make cheap products.


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


Oh please, this is getting ridiculous. I have better things to do.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...




His inner circle new the truth about hitler and religion...

Religious views of Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

while historians such as Ian Kershaw, Joachim Fest and Alan Bullock agree that Hitler was anti-Christian - a view evidenced by sources such as the _Goebbels Diaries_, the memoirs of Speer, and the transcripts edited by Martin Bormann contained within_Hitler's Table Talk_.[6] Goebbels wrote in 1941 that Hitler "hates Christianity, because it has crippled all that is noble in humanity."[7] Many historians have come to the conclusion that Hitler's long-term aim was the eradication of Christianity in Germany,[8]


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


So, no consensus?


----------



## Darkwind (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...


He also wrote Mien Kampf......

Consider that.

However, it was clear by many of his writing and speeches he had no need for religion and thought the state (HIM) was all powerful.....Its a matter of historical record...

He was a humanist at worst....an agnositic at best....completely crazy and anti-religious.....


Oh, and responsible for 55 million deaths.


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

Darkwind said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > Darkwind said:
> ...


Historians can barely decide if he was a christian or an atheist at the end of his life, I won't listen to your pathetic partisan bullshit.


----------



## Darkwind (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...


Well, you are welcome to not listen.  I, however, will continue to paint him as anti-religion, fully humanist, and the architect of the second largest killing of humans in the history of the world.


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > Darkwind said:
> ...



He was a communist which is a type of socialist..just not the nice kind...


Darkwind said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


For tything....yes, but to gain entrance to Heaven you must vocate a vow of poverty...


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

Darkwind said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > Darkwind said:
> ...


Keep doing that.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...




Ah...and so we show you where your democrat controlled education lied to you...and now you lash out......


----------



## Darkwind (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...


I will....thanks....

How about those bears, eh?


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > Darkwind said:
> ...


Partisan stupidity at it's finest. Democrats do not control all education, how do you even measure that?


----------



## ScienceRocks (Aug 9, 2015)

There's a big effin difference between social democracy and pure socialism. The ancient Greeks used to tax people to build their infrastructure and to fund the army...

You loserterians have a lot to learn.


----------



## Darkwind (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...


Votes.


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

Darkwind said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...



Ignorant of what?  Your evasiveness?


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...




By the number of teachers in unions......


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 9, 2015)

kaz said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > kaz said:
> ...


Do you still need directions when using toilet paper?


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> There's a big effin difference between social democracy and pure socialism. The ancient Greeks used to tax people to build their infrastructure and to fund the army...
> 
> You loserterians have a lot to learn.




So do we.....and they had just as much corruption as we do......the fleet that beat the Persians was government corruption that came in handy.....


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


Yet not all public schools are unionized.....imagine that...


----------



## kaz (Aug 9, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



OMG, you've "owned several companies" and you don't grasp that ... lower prices ... are good for an ecomony????

You are a L-I-A-R.  I am what you claim to be plus.  You have zero knowledge of the subject you speak.  A kid with a lemonade stand knows more about business than you do.

That's classic. Walmart comes in and slashes prices for an entire community costing them nothing, they are reselling hats.  And you think that harms the community.  Shaking head, laughing at you


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...




He isn't a lefty so no.........do you need help...I could send you a youtube link?


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...




Almost all are.....


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


What do unions have to do with democrats controlling what is thought in school? LOL. You're insane.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...




Here you go moonglow.....I would use a tablet so you can actually do this during the.....event.....


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...




They protect bad teachers, they support left wing politicians who push left wing crap onto public schools.....


----------



## idb (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


Yes, better that they have a good, wholesome right wing education...


> _Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority._
> 
> Yes, you read that right. The party opposes the teaching of “higher order thinking skills” because it believes the purpose is to challenge a student’s “fixed beliefs” and undermine “parental authority.”
> 
> It opposes, among other things, early childhood education, sex education, and multicultural education, but supports “school subjects with emphasis on the Judeo-Christian principles upon which America was founded.”


Texas GOP rejects critical thinking skills. Really. - The Washington Post


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

idb said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...




Wow...the Post...really?  They are fair.....


----------



## idb (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


So?
Are you denying the facts of the report?
I bet you didn't even look at it.


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 9, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> The capitalist will say...I got mine, fuck everyone else


Even if that was true, so what?


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 9, 2015)

rightwinger said:


>



The boxes the ones on the right are standing on were looted from the guy on the left.


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 9, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > *“I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money.”*
> ...



That's just leftwing conceit.  First, the delude themselves by believing they're helping anyone.  Second, they delude themselves by believing that is the true intention.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

idb said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...




Yeah, I looked...it was silly and biased...


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 9, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> The only end game for capitalism is fascism.  Destroy the competition then buy the voting process ensuring ownership of all significant markets and wealth.



fascism is a form of socialism, numskull.  It's the end game of the welfare state.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...




Actually, the writing is wrong...that is socialism on the leftt...the one guy with the connections gets the benefits, so he does'nt care if the other kids can't see...on the right..the conservative, religious person helped those two kids see the game by acting on his own  he gave up his box, and helped the other kid get the boxes he needed on his own, no government necessary............the guy in the right picture...works for hilary clinton.....


----------



## idb (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


Hardly biased...it was quoted directly from the Texas Republican Party's own platform.
Are you saying that the Texas GOP were lying?


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 9, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



What you just described is socialism.  Under capitalism the government doesn't play favorites.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

idb said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



The issue wasn't explained accurately....


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 9, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Left-wing propaganda.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

idb said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...




Notice they didn't title the article.....

GOP Challenges failed democrat education policies....

_Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs *that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority.*_


----------



## idb (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


It was a clear and unvarnished quote directly from their own platform.
No explanation necessary.

Spin it away if you feel you can though.
It should be good for a chortle.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

idb said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...




Yeah...except I pointed out the entire quote....you didn't......asshole......

Notice they didn't title the article.....

GOP Challenges failed democrat education policies....

_Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs *that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority.*_


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 9, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> FA_Q2 said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...


Wrong, capitalism doesn't lend itself to any such thing.  Government, on the other hand, is rapacious and grows at the expense of capitalism and freedom.  

You object to increasing government control, yet you favor socialism which is complete government control.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > FA_Q2 said:
> ...




Hanz Landa...famed movie socialist murderer would say..."That's a bingo!!!!!"


----------



## idb (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


Yes you did...and you think that makes them look better?
You know what...I really think you do!


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 9, 2015)

Pedro de San Patricio said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, when we give lower classes jobs, that is THEM supporting US.  When all their bills are paid with money we pay them.  You people are just ridiculous
> ...



So what are you implying, that everything I earn belongs to the government?

That's pretty much the definition of "stupid."


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > We don't hate rich liberals, liberals hate other rich people, then try to use the government to take all of their stuff...and then call that "justice."
> ...



So the government didn't take *ALL* of it yet?  Well, I guess that makes it OK, right?


----------



## LeftofLeft (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....



Unlike no other Country or Economy in the World, US provides more opportunity for more people to have a house like this. Liberals will site Income Inequality in the US is unlike no other in the World; yet so is immigration demand (both legal and non-legal means) is higher to come to the US. Why would demand be so high to come to a country that has high income inequality? Liberals want US to be more like many of the countries that don't provide such opportunity in exchange for reduction in income inequality??? I'd rather have the best opportunity and higher income inequality vs. receding into another economy that locks in a true 1%, eliminates a Middle Class, and does not provide opportunity for economic upward mobility.


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Bear in mind that sociologists state that the "paragon of a capitalist" was.......the slave owner.



Sociologists are little more then professional indoctrinators.  What they do isn't science, and they don't know the first thing about economics.

Why would anyone care about what they say?


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> A pure capitalist is the furthest thing from freedom loving.
> Dirty air
> Dirty water
> Old or bad food
> ...



Those are all socialist smears and only the gullible believe them.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Aug 9, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > A pure capitalist is the furthest thing from freedom loving.
> ...




Look at what corporations like Apple or many others are doing in China. Corporations need to be regulated or they will do exactly what I just said.

You're a native fool that is blind to reality if you can't accept what is right in front of your face.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Aug 9, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...




Do you pay taxes for the road you drive on and for the regulations for the clean air, water and food you eat & drink?? If not then you're a bum.


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Aug 9, 2015)

rightwinger said:


>


That's actually true if their height is representative of effort to attend the game. Whose effort is most relied upon in this situation to lift the other two to equal status? Who has to lose the most boxes to make everyone equal? And when the next baseball season starts why would the tall guy try as hard to  attend the game when everything he does he gets no benefit from? And as a final thought. Why should he care about the short guy? The middle one may be a pretty good employee and got a free ticket. But the short guy? Why does he deserve to be there at all?


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> > Lakhota said:
> ...



The Pilgrims and Jamestown were privately funded, numskull.


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...



Do I have a choice about paying taxes?

So what's your point?


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...




yeah...we do.....and we don't mind paying taxes for the things we all use.....but people like you want to give more and more money to greedy, corrupt politicians who will give your tax money to the very corporations you hate....and you complain about us....you are the one who should rethink their beliefs on taxes.....


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Matthew said:
> ...


Isn't China more like what you think the US should be with identical regulations?


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Matthew said:
> ...



Who do you think is letting APPLE do that in china.........the greedy, corrupt politicians who got paid off by apple......and yet those are your heroes...the guys you want to send more of your tax money to here in this country....how do you explain that concept?


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 9, 2015)

kiwiman127 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > kiwiman127 said:
> ...



ROFL! Only a complete moron believes we had unfettered capitalism when those fiascos occured.  Furthermore, S & L fiasco and the Great Recession were caused by government.  Enron is an example of crony capitalism, and WorldCom was just a bankruptcy.  That's a normal part of capitalism.  That's what makes it superior to government:  badly run companies go out of business.  Badly run government agencies never go out of business.


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Matthew said:
> ...



What horrible thing are they doing, providing people with jobs?


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...




And the only thing that allows the social welfare countries of Europe to provide their luxurious benfits to their people...they don't pay for a real military...they rely on the U.S. to keep them safe....big mistake...big mistake.....Putin is laughing...

Report Sweden s National Defences Have Vanished and Russia is Laughing


A couple of decades ago, Sweden had a strong military. Its air force was one of the capable in the world, its navy had dozens of ships and submarines, and artillery guarded the coastlines from a multitude of secret mountain hideaways.

Now, after a number of fatal decisions, based on the belief that wars in Europe were a thing of the past, most of its military is gone and Sweden has virtually no means of protecting itself.

According to Sweden’s Supreme Commander Sverker Göransson, we can, at best and in five years, defend ourselves _in one place for one week_.


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Pedro de San Patricio said:
> ...



There's everything wrong with it.  Seldom is government "investment" for the public good.  More often then not it's for the benefit of crony capitalists.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > kaz said:
> ...




The more accurate term..."Crony Socialists."


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> The dirty unregulated rivers and air of China that has allowed corporations to do as they please is a modern display on how fucked your ideas are.
> 
> 
> America and Europe use to be like this before government put in place intelligent regulations.



In a true capitalist country property owners hold corporations accountable for defiling their property.  It's only where property is government owned that you have problems like air pollution and water pollution.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > The dirty unregulated rivers and air of China that has allowed corporations to do as they please is a modern display on how fucked your ideas are.
> ...




Because the government doesn't care....and you have a harder time getting help against the government.....


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 9, 2015)

Matthew said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Clementine said:
> ...



it's done through tort law.  You have no clue what history proves because you mind is thoroughly corrupted by propaganda.


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> Pedro de San Patricio said:
> 
> 
> > kaz said:
> ...


I don't think he implied that. Regardless, viewing your posts leads me to believe that you're the worst type of partisan hack.


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > kaz said:
> ...


I think this proves my point, you can deny the violent history that led to capitalism and the horrid conditions suffered before regulations, or keep living in a shelter.


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > FA_Q2 said:
> ...


Socialism needs to be mixed with capitalism, using socialism in meaning universal healthcare and such.


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > _Mussolini's own summary of the Fascist philosophy: "Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato" (Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State)_
> ...



How does that make fascism a form of capitalism?


----------



## idb (Aug 9, 2015)

LeftofLeft said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....
> ...


I think you'll find that Liberals that cite income inequality as a problem agree with you.
The point is that income inequality diminishes opportunity.


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > The dirty unregulated rivers and air of China that has allowed corporations to do as they please is a modern display on how fucked your ideas are.
> ...


I hope you're joking, pollution exists depending on the actions of those who use the property, throughout history, capitalists worldwide, not just america, have been shown to mercilessly abuse the environment. That's why we have national parks protected, the EPA, regulations on emissions, and other such things, I must ask, what is a "pure capitalist" country, capitalists had the opportunity to do all your talking about, same with pure socialists, many times, both failed.


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

idb said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


Hey, you're from new zealand, right?


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


Fascism has ony ever come from capitalism.


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 9, 2015)

Lakhota said:


> Unfettered capitalism is as destructive as unfettered socialism.  Both need regulated.  An optimum combination of both is best.



Horseshit.  Unfettered capitalism is what raised the standard of living in this country levels not even imagined.


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...



So has what you call "socialism."


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > kaz said:
> ...


Err, government investment in domestic issues actually does help the public, and calling all capitalists who don't agree with you crony is childish.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Matthew said:
> ...




You do realize that industrialization was a brand new thing....in a more primitive world...so of course it wasn't going to go smoothly and be perfect...we went to manual labor agrarianism....to manual labor industrialism with people learning the new skills in every aspect of the new way of life on the go, as it was happening...and you guys think it should have been perfect from day 1......and the fact that as we have become more experienced with capitalism, and industrialization it has become cleaner and better for all workers.....unless you live in a socialist nation.....

And China is just coming out of a state run society, with still too much of their economy decided by the government....but give them time and they will clean up their environment, and be better to their workers...why.....?  Because their people will have more money...and they will start to demand a better life because they can afford it.....

That is what capitalism does for people...it makes their lives better, at all levels of wealth.......


----------



## idb (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


Paying off corrupt politicians is the free market at work.
Why do you think that's a bad thing?


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


Fascism has never come out of socialism.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Matthew said:
> ...





> government investment in domestic issues actually does help the public,



Until the people become so dependent on it they stop wanting to work...and then the money runs out...and the real socialists take over...and the mass graves get dug.....


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

idb said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Matthew said:
> ...


Capitalism is a perfect system to them, everything bad that results from it such as colonialism/etc is "crony." Apparantly, pollution is "crony" now.


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 9, 2015)

Lakhota said:


> Some interesting death toll statistics:
> 
> The Death Tolls of Socialism And Capitalism - Sciforums



Your propaganda attributes every war that ever occurred to capitalism, so that's obvious horseshit.


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


Your posts are an example of why we need afforable college.


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > Some interesting death toll statistics:
> ...


And people on the other side don't attribute every single thing under authroritarian socialist dictators to socialism? Both sides are dishonest and play number games.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

idb said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Matthew said:
> ...




No...that is a socialist thing...because the government has the power to make or break your business with it's arbitrary power....if politicians didn't have that power, and only acted as police.....there would be no reason to bribe officials.....in a place with socialism....you have to bribe officials just to get a business going....


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > Some interesting death toll statistics:
> ...


I also find it amusing that you believe everything you disagree with is propaganda.


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


Oh please, this country has had a mix of socialism and capitalism for decades, like the rest of the world, I don't want to go back to the early 20th century, before the new deal.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...




Allow me to translate...I minored in "socialist though"t in college.....

_I am loosing the argument...I can't bully these guys and they can counter all of my arguments with the truth and reality...so .....I better insult him......._

Translation over.......


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...




Hmmmm...and we are now 18 trillion dollars in debt, 94 million people are not in the job market, social security, medicare and all the other social welfare problems are out of money....

Yeah..you are right.....we have become infected with socialism....


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


What? Your posts are consistently relying on claiming that socialism will bring mass graves when europe has had socialists for decades and they're doing nothing close to that. I don't think you can "minor" in socialist thought, I'm a social democrat, capitalism/socialism are both failures if left unchecked.


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


Reagan tripled the national debt, bush invaded the wrong country, we waste money on defense, obama was handed a disaster.. Clinton outsourced jobs. 94 million people? If you don't count part time workers, but whose fault is that? Oh, the capitalists. They aren't "running out" we just don't want to fund them or modify them.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...




Yeah...because they had the last mass graves 70 years ago....so they are resting up for the next round......Russia is on the move and China is about to get frisky....they are rested and ready to start digging again....


----------



## idb (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Matthew said:
> ...


Forming treaties with warlike states that are willing to send their soldiers to fight for your country is nothing new.
It's also good business for the country supplying the soldiers.

That's the free market in action.
Why do you hate the free market?


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...




No...the democrats broke their deal with Reagan, Bush should have also invaded Iran, and we don't waste money on defense...as Ukraine about spending money on defense...they might disagree with you.......


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

idb said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...




It isn't good business for the country supplying the soldiers if the client isn't paying.....of course as a leftist you wouldn't understand that concept.....


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


LOL. When the soviet union dissolved, russia started embracing capitalism, and they still do, china heavily embraces capitalism, where do you think ipads are made?


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


What deal did democrats break that caused reagan to triple the national debt? Also, please, quit using "......" after every damn sentence, it's annoying and makes you look like an illiterate person. You're telling me the iraq invasion was justified and we should invade iran? We've already done enough to iran, they hate us for a good reason. Russia expanding to ukraine as nothing to do with mass graves.


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > Unfettered capitalism is as destructive as unfettered socialism.  Both need regulated.  An optimum combination of both is best.
> ...


Unfettered socialism also raised the standard of living constantly in china/russia/etc, it doesn't make it a good thing. Same with unfettered capitalism.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...




Fuck you....how about that.......does that bother you too........really........a lot ........and yes, the Iraq invasion was justified since he violated the ceasefire agreements that ended the war and put us back into a state of war with him....and you don't think Russia is digging mass graves in Ukraine....you are funny............


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


Iraq was not justified at all, the entire region was destabilized, no WMD'S were found.. Show me these mass graves.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...





> What deal did democrats break that caused reagan to triple the national debt?




reagan's tax deal betrayal by tip oneill

How Reagan Was Compromised

Lesson for Fiscal Cliff negotiators The Reagan-O Neill tax hike


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...




They will be found in Russian occupied Ukraine...twit...


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


So all you have is a nut job conspiracy theory.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...




Here you go twit....


How Reagan Was Compromised



In 1982, Reagan agreed to increase some excise taxes on a promise from House Speaker Tip O’Neill that every dollar increase in tax revenue would be matched by 3 dollars in spending cuts.* Famously, O’Neill reneged.* So much for compromise: When later asked again to raise some taxes, Reagan would reply, “I’m still waiting for those spending cuts.”

Those who oppose what Reagan stood for, now like to blame him for the increased government spending and debt that were largely inflicted on him by their predecessors, such as O’Neill, through stubbornness and deceit. Last week, _Bloomberg Insider_ featured on its cover a picture of Reagan with the word “SOCIALIST!” scrawled across his face. The accompanying article did not even come close to demonstrating that Reagan was a socialist, but it did attempt to portray his compromises as if they were his guiding principles.


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


Oh please, what does that have to do with military spending and debt increases?


----------



## idb (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


You've described free market forces perfectly.
You identify who can get stuff done for you...you pay that person to do stuff for you...he does your stuff.
The more money you have the more stuff you can get done.
Simple - and everyone is playing on the same field.


----------



## nat4900 (Aug 9, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> Sociologists are little more then professional indoctrinators. What they do isn't science, and they don't know the first thing about economics.




You do know that you're a fucking, illiterate moron, don't you?

Sociology ENTAILS economics......there is an entire field that covers the sociology of economic life, that can also be said to be concerned with resource allocations.

Had you made it through junior high school you would at least not be making imbecilic remarks like the one above.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

And more....



Lesson for Fiscal Cliff negotiators The Reagan-O Neill tax hike



Reagan and the Republicans wanted to cut spending. O’Neill and the Democrats were insisting on raising taxes and especially raising tax rates. It had all the makings of the same kind of stalemate that exists in Washington today.

After weeks of wrangling, O’Neill and the Democrats would not budge on their insistence that raising taxes had to be part of the final deal. *To make it more palatable for Reagan, O’Neill offered a three-to-one ratio of spending cuts to tax increases. On that basis — that the deal, on paper, was designed to result in a net shrinking of government — Reagan and enough Republicans signed on, over the strong objections of many anti-tax conservatives in the Republican ranks.*

Thus was concluded the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act (TEFRA), signed into law in September 1982. In hindsight, Reagan came to see the deal as one of the biggest domestic errors of his presidency. *The tax increases went into effect immediately but as Reagan wrote in his memoirs, “later the Democrats reneged on their pledge and we never got those cuts,” so there was no shrinking in the size of government, and no taming of the deficit.*

A few of the more important lessons learned:

The O’Neill-Reagan Lovefest: The deal helped perpetuate a myth that Speaker O’Neill and President Reagan had transcended the kind of rancorous personal animosity that seems to characterize today’s overly polarized atmosphere in Washington. After this bipartisan ’82 deal and a subsequent ’83 deal on Social Security reform, O’Neill had no hesitation to let forth this blast during the ’84 campaign: “The evil is in the White House at the present time. And that evil is a man who has no care or concern for the working class of America and the future generations of America, and who likes to ride a horse. He’s cold. He’s mean. He’s got ice water for blood.”


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

idb said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...




No...I described actual socialism....


----------



## idb (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


You're dead right but...why would the war-loving country send its soldiers if they're getting nothing in return?
That would definitely be bad business...you wouldn't do it.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...




It sure is...look at China.......oh......are......the.....dots.....still.......bothering........you........?.........


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...


China is as capitalist as ever, little to no regulations, capitalists using suicide nets for their workers.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 9, 2015)

idb said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...





> You're dead right but...why would the war-loving country send its soldiers if they're getting nothing in return?
> That would definitely be bad business...you wouldn't do it



No....but the government runs the military...doesn't it...........you just made my point....thank you.

And we don't love war......we understand the history of the 1930s...the left doesn't.


----------



## nat4900 (Aug 9, 2015)

Of course I'm biased.......but just in this thread I can see that right wingers seem to have the intellectual capacity of a 7 year old...the emotional capability of 6 year old...and compose an argument worthy of a 5 year old.


----------



## idb (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


The invasion of Iraq was a was the ultimate public/private partnership project.
The government started a war - the private sector sold them the means to conduct it and helped them run it.
A lot of people got very rich.
See...the government and private business really can work together when they want to.

I wonder...does that make the Iraq war a Socialist enterprise?
Does that mean that you supported a Socialist enterprise?
Hmmmmmm...


----------



## idb (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


The US military is a huge industry making a lot of people and corporations very rich.
Starting wars is good for business.
It certainly doesn't achieve anything else of value.
See...free-market at work - successfully partnering with the government.


----------



## nat4900 (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> China is as capitalist as ever, little to no regulations, capitalists using suicide nets for their workers.



Here is what China's capitalistic industries have contributed to the air quality....The devastating pollution as seen from outer space.


----------



## The Rabbi (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...


You are deflecting to irrelevance.
Europe has large numbers of unemployed younger people.  This is simply fact.  The economies there are far less dynamic than ours.
European birth rates are below replacement, typically given as 2.1 children per couple.  As I recall the Italians are the worst off but none of the western Euripean countries has a birth rate above 2.  This indicates a declining population and a death spiral.
This is not true among the Muslims, who have birth rates well above 2.  They are becoming the dominant force in Europe and will grow i strength unless something is done.


----------



## The Rabbi (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...


Your ignorance on this topic has been established and verified.  Move on.


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

The Rabbi said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...


I addressed you, I haven't deflected anything. Many countries, including america, have unemployed young people, they're young, what do you expect? Declining population? Good for them. 8% muslim by 2030? RUUUUUUUN THE EVIL MUSLIMS.


----------



## The Rabbi (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...


Shit, sucks to be you.
Death toll rises to 33 in knife attack on China train station Fox News


----------



## nat4900 (Aug 9, 2015)

The Rabbi said:


> *This is not true among the Muslims, who have birth rates well above 2. They are becoming the dominant force in Europe and will grow i strength unless something is done*.



Hey, maybe can try selling to Muslims a Planned Parenthood type of system.......I mean, you right wingers are looking to defund them in the US, so they may be i search of other venues.....Surely you right wingers are ALL in favor of aborting Muslim, brown fetuses.


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

The Rabbi said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...


How am i Ignorant on the topic? 
Timeline . Triangle Fire . American Experience . WGBH PBS
Child Labor in U.S. History - The Child Labor Education Project


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

The Rabbi said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


Meh.


----------



## The Rabbi (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...


OK you have been thoroughly pwned here.  Time to move on.


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

The Rabbi said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...


I don't go searching for news stories in china. I also don't worship the confederate flag like some racist idiot.


----------



## The Rabbi (Aug 9, 2015)

David_42 said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...


SO you are intentionally ignorant.
Makes sense.
See, some of us are news junkies.  We read newspapers and internet stories and remember them.  So when some moron comes on here proclaiming that European socialism has produced an economic paradise we all know it's bullshit.  Because we've read numerous stories, as well as books, detailing the stagnant economies, high structural unemployment rates and general malaise in Europe. Unlike you who gets his news from comics.


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

The Rabbi said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...


I read the news as well, but you cleartly, and specifically, searched up knife attacks to post that. When did I proclaim european social democracy is perfect? It's better then what we have. All of your "points" are dependent on the country and always change, idiot.


----------



## LadyMinstrel (Aug 9, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....
> ...




Ive seen men born into extreme poverty..He never had a bed as a child..Slept in the barn to avoid the abusive kid beating step father...His parents were both..abusive alcoholic parents..

This man grew up...made a life for himself in the CAPIALISTIC SYSTEM....hes wealthy...money falls off of him every where he goes...

He has made a wonderful life for himself..because of capitalism

Like Bill Cosby said..if you cant make it in America...your just not trying...

I was born low low low middle class...and Ive always had my own business's...I live in a wonderful home..on acreage...Ive owned cattle..horses......and camped in the mountains....

I love my life...If it were not for capitalism..this would not be my life...


Socialism..is just an excuse to sponge off of others who will take the time to work hard..

Socialists are lazy asses....who lack brain power to do for themsevles


SOCIALISTS ARE PERPETUAL BABIES...NEVER GETTING OFF THE BOTTLE...BUT RATHER SUCK THE TIT OF THE GOVERNMENT FROM BIRTH TO GRAVE....

Its called THEIVERY...TAKING ANOTHER MANS MONEY TO SUSTAIN YOURSELVES..IS THEIVERY

iF THE MAN GIVES HIS MONEY FREELY TO CHURCHES..AND CHARITIES TO HELP THE POOR..THEN ITS LEGAL...

LIBERALISM IS TRULY A MENTAL DISORDER...i cannot think like they do..Its never been in me to do so..as EVEN THOUGH I WAS POOR AS A YOUNG PERSON..AND A CHILD..I WAS TAUGHT BY MY PARENTS..NOT TO SPONGE OFF THE GOV..THAT IT WAS UN-EXCEPTABLE

I had good parents...Socialists obviously had bad parents lacking morality..We wer taught that we could do anything we wanted in this land of opportunity..we were taught to stand on our own two feet..THAT NO ONE OWED US ANYTHING..


----------



## David_42 (Aug 9, 2015)

LadyMinstrel said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


How can anyone take you seriously when you claim liberalism is a mental disorder.


----------



## Preacher (Aug 9, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....
> ...


Exactly what I was going to say Huggy.100% true as well. The only people that love capitalism are living it high on the hog off the backs of others or they are on drugs.


----------



## LadyMinstrel (Aug 9, 2015)

2aguy said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > The capitalist will say...I got mine, fuck everyone else
> ...



Ah ha..heres a man who knows his history! 

Socialists..Progressives..are prolific liars...They will tell lies..to achieve their endgame...

Most IVe talke to..have no clue about history...and so they are doomed to repeat it...cept were not going  to allow them to destory our country...

THIS IS WHAT WARS ARE FOR...CLEANSING THE LAND..according to the founding fathers.

A civil war in America might be a good idea..cause your never going to get these idiots to change their way of thinking...they are just to damed stupid..


----------



## SuperDemocrat (Aug 9, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....
> ...



When you say everyone should have the opportunity to own a house like that do you mean everyone can freely purchase such a home of they wanted to?  I thought we already had that.


----------



## LeftofLeft (Aug 9, 2015)

idb said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...



i think people who come here with nothing or are brought up in a poor environment who create opportunity lacking income would disagree.


----------



## The Rabbi (Aug 10, 2015)

David_42 said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...


I remembered there was in fact a knife attack with multiple killings in China on the same day as some other event, I cant recall which.  So I searched for that.  Strangely the event I cited was not the one I remembered. Which only strengthens my case.
I never claimed you said Euro socialism was perfect.  Try reading.
I have no idea what kind of argument "all of your points are dependent on the country and always change" means.  Although I think it means you are out of arguments and have been thoroughly defeated in this debate.  The numbers for Western European socialist economies are simply horrible.  Enormous structural deficits, high levels of govt dependence, high levels of unemployment, deteriorating social structures.  This is what socialism brings--100% failure.


----------



## Pedro de San Patricio (Aug 10, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> Pedro de San Patricio said:
> 
> 
> > kaz said:
> ...


I didn't say anything about the government. I said that you don't own the money you pay your employees. You don't get to reach into their pocket and take what you want because it's not yours anymore.


----------



## The Rabbi (Aug 10, 2015)

Pedro de San Patricio said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Pedro de San Patricio said:
> ...


That's irrelevant, borderline insane.


----------



## Pedro de San Patricio (Aug 10, 2015)

The Rabbi said:


> Pedro de San Patricio said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


As can be seen above, Kaz originally said that the upper classes support the lower classes by paying the lower classes' bills by giving them a paycheck and implied he still owned the money after giving it to his employees. I called him on that. British Patriot chimed in to call my point that the money he earns belongs to the government stupid. I pointed out that I didn't even say anything about the government let alone what belongs to it and reiterated my actual point that, once he compensates his employees for supporting him, he no longer owns that compensation. You're not paying their bills. You're paying your bill owed to them for working for you. It's not that hard a concept once you stop accepting the notion that you own your employees.


----------



## The Rabbi (Aug 10, 2015)

Pedro de San Patricio said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > Pedro de San Patricio said:
> ...


OK what we have here is a failure to communicate.
He said nothing about upper classes and lower classes.  Rather it was about employers and employees. In your mind that might be the samr thing.
Yes technically once the employer pays the employee the money is not his anymore but the employee's.  So what?  It came from somewhere.  If the employer were not employing the worker the worker would have nothing. I think you havent made your case here.


----------



## Jantje_Smit (Aug 10, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....



Nah, the capitalist thinks "Nice house, all it needs is a wall to keep the 47% moochers out and some cheap illegal mexicans to mow the grass and do the laundry"


----------



## The Rabbi (Aug 10, 2015)

Jantje_Smit said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....
> ...


I've seen of your posts and already think you're a moron.


----------



## Jantje_Smit (Aug 10, 2015)

The Rabbi said:


> I've seen of your posts and already think you're a moron.



I hear that a lot, mostly from delusional tea cultists like yourself


----------



## Pedro de San Patricio (Aug 10, 2015)

The Rabbi said:


> Pedro de San Patricio said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...


Employment is a contract. The employee sells their labor for money. The employer pays the employee at a mutually agreed upon rate in exchange for that labor. The money paid to the employee by the employer is just the employee's charge for services rendered. That's it. That's all a paycheck is. It's solely that person's property to do with as they will once it's in their hands and the employee's personal finances are otherwise not remotely the business of the employer. I would therefore argue that his point about the employer paying the employee's bills is what's irrelevant.

I am using "upper classes" and "employers" synonymously btw. Capitalist and laborer, employer and employee, rich and working poor, they're all just labels for the same dichotomy.


----------



## kaz (Aug 10, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...



You've been holding onto that gem looking for the perfect time to use it for a while now, haven't you?


----------



## kaz (Aug 10, 2015)

David_42 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Matthew said:
> ...



Right, everything before socialism was "capitalism."  When I say right I mean wrong...


----------



## kaz (Aug 10, 2015)

David_42 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Matthew said:
> ...



Wow, "domestic issues."  That covers everything, Holmes.  Government has done good (roads, police, military) and bad (most of the rest of it).  but your standard is if they did anything good that it's all good?


----------



## kaz (Aug 10, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...



Your posts are an example of why we need economics as a core course in high school


----------



## kaz (Aug 10, 2015)

Pedro de San Patricio said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Pedro de San Patricio said:
> ...



I like how you chastise him for saying what you didn't say, then you repeat your assertion which no one else said....

LOL.

Your point is irrelevant, no one said that and it has nothing to do with anything being discussed.  Remember we can't hear the voices in your head


----------



## bedowin62 (Aug 10, 2015)

Socialists are people who LIVE IN houses like that, but want to take their neighbors houses like that away, and give it to whomever the group of the moment is that they are pandering to for votes


----------



## kaz (Aug 10, 2015)

Pedro de San Patricio said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > Pedro de San Patricio said:
> ...



You are completely and utterly fucking stupid, I didn't imply that.  I SAID that the money they pay their bills with they earned by working for me.  Yet you say I am dependent on them.  When they work for me and I pay them.  You really are a dim wit, it's a simple point



Pedro de San Patricio said:


> I called him on that



You called me on what I didn't say because you are s-t-u-p-i-d



Pedro de San Patricio said:


> British Patriot chimed in to call my point that the money he earns belongs to the government stupid. I pointed out that I didn't even say anything about the government let alone what belongs to it and reiterated my actual point that, once he compensates his employees for supporting him, he no longer owns that compensation. You're not paying their bills. You're paying your bill owed to them for working for you. It's not that hard a concept once you stop accepting the notion that you own your employees.



Unlike you, bripat understood what I said


----------



## kaz (Aug 10, 2015)

The Rabbi said:


> Pedro de San Patricio said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...



All play and no education makes Pedro a dim wit


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 10, 2015)

Pedro de San Patricio said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > Pedro de San Patricio said:
> ...




No, they aren't.....if the guy working for someone else has a pension..he is a capitalist....he is investing money for his retirement...we don't have classes here in  the states...the left would love it if we did and they are trying real hard to make them....but we just don't.......and someone who works at wal mart, could very easily also have their own side business....and it isn't just "Rich" and "working poor" there are people who make more and those who make less, for now, and will move up and down the scale.......

Wealth or lack of wealth is not a fixed status in the United States.....and we can't allow the left to make it seem like it is.......


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 10, 2015)

Odium said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...




Yeah.....not living high on the hog here and I love the free exchange of goods and services...it makes life better for everyone.....


----------



## Wry Catcher (Aug 10, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....



Right, if  a Capitalist thought that he would support a redistrbution of the wealth.  BTW, that home in CA would be seven figures, in Texas less than my 3/2 Rancher in the SF Bay Area.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 10, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > *This is not true among the Muslims, who have birth rates well above 2. They are becoming the dominant force in Europe and will grow i strength unless something is done*.
> ...




No, that is what the democrats call "family planning" in the 3rd world.....notice it is always you lefties who look at the 3rd world, Africa in particular, and say..."hey....now....they have too many people....we need to give them family planning/abortion."  The racism of the left is deep and pervasive....and they have convinced themselves that their racism is simply concern for the less fortunate....which always ends up with them wanting to abort them....


----------



## Wry Catcher (Aug 10, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Odium said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



The FREE Exchange of goods?


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 10, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Sociologists are little more then professional indoctrinators. What they do isn't science, and they don't know the first thing about economics.
> ...



Sociology may "entail" economics," but that doesn't mean sociologists have an understanding of economics.  Most of them are Marxists, which means they are quacks and imbeciles.  Their understanding of economics is bogus and their sociological theories are wrong.


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 10, 2015)

David_42 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...


400 million people have been lifted out of desperate poverty in China since it changed it's economic policies to become more market oriented.  You and your ilk would consign those people to living on less than $1.00/day.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 10, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...




Yeah....but they would all be living on less that 1 dollar a day........that is true equality.........according to a lefty.....


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 10, 2015)

David_42 said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 10, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > *This is not true among the Muslims, who have birth rates well above 2. They are becoming the dominant force in Europe and will grow i strength unless something is done*.
> ...



You're obviously a moron.


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 10, 2015)

2aguy said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...


What if you're ambidextrous?


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 10, 2015)

David_42 said:


> LadyMinstrel said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



That's a good indication that he understands reality.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 10, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> David_42 said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...




This reminds me of the star fish story...the conservative version and the lefty version.....

Conservative version...

A woman is walking on the beach...she sees the tide has gone out and thousands of star fish are stranded and dying on the beach....another woman is throwing starfish back into the ocean.  The first woman says, "you can't save all of these star fish."  The other woman says "I know....but I can save this one, and this one....and this one....."

The lefty version......

A  left wing woman is walking on the beach...she sees the tide has gone out and thousands of star fish are stranded and dying on the beach....another woman, a conservative,  is throwing starfish back into the ocean.  The left wing  woman says, "you can't save all of these star fish."  The other woman says "I know....but I can save this one, and this one....and this one....."  At which point the left wing woman screams at the top of her lungs "If you can't save all of them, you can't save any of them...." and proceeds to violently assault the conservative woman......to keep her from saving any of the star fish.....

The end...........

(Of course, the conservative woman has a concealed carry permit...she draws her weapon and holds the raging left wing woman at gun point till the police arrive and take the nut job into custody)

The end...again....

(copyright...2aguy)


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 10, 2015)

Pedro de San Patricio said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Pedro de San Patricio said:
> ...


i have no idea what that is supposed to mean.  Until the money is transferred to their bank accounts, it's your money.


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 10, 2015)

Jantje_Smit said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > I've seen of your posts and already think you're a moron.
> ...


Yeah, I'll bet you do hear that a lot.


----------



## Pedro de San Patricio (Aug 10, 2015)

Once you hand it to then you don't have the right to take it back out of their hand and spend it how you want. Why is that?


----------



## Wry Catcher (Aug 10, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



LOL, bripat knows this ^^^ because he heard a podcast by Rush Limbaugh.


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 10, 2015)

Pedro de San Patricio said:


> Once you hand it to then you don't have the right to take it back out of their hand and spend it how you want. Why is that?



Like I said, once the money is transferred, it's no longer belongs to you.  What's so hard to understand?


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 10, 2015)

Wry Catcher said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...



Hmmm . . . no.  I know it because I've read books by sociologists, and I a thorough understanding of economics.  Sociologists believe that citing other authorities makes their papers "scientific."  However, what they are really doing is committing the appeal to authority fallacy.  Sociology is so full of quackery and bogus methodology it should be in the same class as astrology or creationism.


----------



## The Rabbi (Aug 10, 2015)

Wry Catcher said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Odium said:
> ...


You know what that means, right?


----------



## Preacher (Aug 10, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Odium said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...


You are obviously on drugs then. I have dealt with capitalism for 15 years since I started working. I have nothing but contempt and hatred for it. It doesn't work. Period.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 10, 2015)

Odium said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Odium said:
> ...




You are a slow learner then.....don't be ashamed....left wingers are just slow at learning about the truth, reality, good and evil and right and wrong...and capitalism.....

I mean...they murdered 100 million people trying to get socialism to work....and they still think they can make it work out next time.....


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 10, 2015)

2aguy said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > David_42 said:
> ...


 
Sorry

But your story has nothing to do with liberals


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 10, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...




Which definition of "liberal" are we talking about.....because in this story the "liberal" is the conservative woman...while the left wing woman could be described as a "Modern Liberal" in that she is a statist who has adopted the term "liberal" to hide the fact that she supports big government, statist thuggery.....


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 10, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Odium said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


It wasn't socialism that killed them, anymore than democracy killed Vietnam


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 10, 2015)

2aguy said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


You really have a poor concept of what is...


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 10, 2015)

2aguy said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


 
Your fable better applies to gun nuts who scream at every attempt to end gun violence....that won't work

If a piece of legislation will not stop all possible murders, it should not be used to stop any


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 10, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Odium said:
> ...



They had Democracy in Vietnam?  I didn't know that.

Socialism makes it possible for dictators to kill 100 million people.


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 10, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Isn't that the argument Dims use against building a fence on our Southern border?


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 10, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


Yes there was democracy in Nam.....socialism has nothing to do with a dictatorship using a communistic form of govt.. That wasn't all communistic..if you twas smart enough you'd know that..But you're just an ignorant blowhard trying to show how intelligent you are, but you fail miserably...


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 10, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


The Great Wall of China never stopped China from being invaded and conquered...


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 10, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...



Communism is socialism, numskull.  It's a genuine attempt at socialism rather than the half hearted limp-wristed brand of socialism they support in Western Europe.


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 10, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Actually it stopped thousands of attempted invasions.  The fact that it didn't work 100% of time doesn't mean it served no useful purpose.

See, you're using the same argument you just claimed to be faulty.


----------



## Wyatt earp (Aug 10, 2015)

Odium said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Odium said:
> ...



15 years and you are still a MW wage burger flipper?, who's fault is that asshat? 

Been dealing with it for 30 years I live good


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 10, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


Afraid not...Communist is a form of socialism but is based on Marxist ideology, whereas socialism itself is not based on Marxist ideology.......
JUst like Christian democrats are not exactly like social democrats..


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 10, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


it did not stop thousands of attacks, since China was invaded by northern barbarians several times over hundreds of years...


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 10, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...



Actually, all modern socialism is based on Marxist ideology.  For example, take the concept of "class".  All modern socialist refer to the concept of class.  This is a Marxist concept.  Pre-Marxist theories of socialism never mentioned class.  The difference between so-called "social democracy" and communism is one of degree.  There is no fundamental difference in ideology.


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 10, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...



Hmmm true, but thousands and thousands of attempts were made.  Furthermore, cities along the Northern border would have been subject to constant raiding by nomadic Mongol tribes if not for the wall.  

The wall was not built all in one fell swoop.  It was continually extended and repaired for 1500 years.  Why would the Chinese do this if it didn't work?

You're simply an ignoramus who believes whatever makes you feel comfortable in your biases.


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 10, 2015)

bear513 said:


> Odium said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...



Like all losers, Odium blames capitalism for his failures rather than his own personal limitations.


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 10, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


And just where was this pre-Marxist socialism? English Fabist?


----------



## Moonglow (Aug 10, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > Odium said:
> ...


This country is not a pure capitalist nation and has not been since the GOP started regulations and social relief,,,also breaking up monopolies and trusts...


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 10, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




You guys have yet to show how licensing gun owners, registering guns, or limiting magazines stop gun crime or mass shootings...or how they are even required to arrest criminals committing crimes with guns or felons who are caught with guns....since in either case you don't need licensing, or registration to arrest them...so they serve no purpose...other than to harrass law abiding gun owners...


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 10, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...



For one, yes.


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 10, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...



We had virtually no regulations until FDR ascended the throne.


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 10, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...



What does that have to do with the fact that Odium is a loser?


----------



## Preacher (Aug 10, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Odium said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


That would be communism not socialism especially not the kind of socialism I believe in. 


bear513 said:


> Odium said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


Haven't flipped burgers in 13 years since I was 17 pal. Capitalism allows the rich to hold the workers feet to the fire by not paying livable wage its nothing more than economic terrorism. Can't afford to quit,in these WONDERFUL "right to work" states my wife with 2 years experience in her field JUST got her first care manager position and is only making 10$ an hour. In Va and Pa where we are looking at moving to that EASILY is 15$ an hour. Just more republican policies at work down here in the bible belt....nothing but hypocrites. As for me I learned a skill,got injured but still try to apply for the jobs in my field when they come open but I never get hired. I am passed over in favor of non whites with less work ethic and shocker in 3-6 months I see the EXACT same job I applied for BACK in the newspaper. I saw my father bust his ass for 30 years and he has nothing to show for it....well other than physical ailments....capitalism is for the rich to steal the labor of the poor by using the fact most workers NEED a job and they aren't in any real position to debate over pay...you either take what measly offering they are offering or you starve....republicans no nothing other than blame the worker its pathetic and evil. You HATE the idea of educating the people because that would mean everyone would be on equal footing. I am under no impression this can be fixed via politics. Its only going to be fixed by the barrel of a gun.


----------



## kaz (Aug 10, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> Pedro de San Patricio said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



I don't know if he thinks he's being clever or what, but it's just inane and no one said otherwise


----------



## koshergrl (Aug 10, 2015)

Socialists think you should be able to just take the nice stuff of other people, and kill those people if they don't want to give it up.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 10, 2015)

Odium said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Odium said:
> ...




Communism is a type of socialism...the really effective type if you want to murder your class enemies in the millions....


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 10, 2015)

Odium said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Odium said:
> ...




1)  move

2) get more training in a better skill

3) wow...with your interpersonal skills...do you really wonder why you can't get hired?


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 10, 2015)

2aguy said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


 
We have shown

Look at Western Europe, Canada, Japan, Australia


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 10, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




The Western Europe where criminals get fully automatic rifles, and 30 round magazines and where they are throwing grenades like confetti in Sweden.....that Western Europe, with all of their extreme gun control and their criminals weapon of choice are grenades and fully automatic rifles?  Canada....does it even count?  Japan, a police state....

Australia...gun crime is going up there....

this is how easy it is to get a gun in Canada...if you want one, even with their gun control laws...



Guns too easy for Ottawa gangs to get police say - Ottawa - CBC News


Ottawa police believe more local gang members are carrying guns now than at any other time in the city's recent history, and low-quality, semi-automatic handguns smuggled in from the United States as the weapons of choice.

Now you guys tell us that extreme anti gun laws will stop this sort of thing.....If we mention Latin or Central America, or Mexico...you say they are 3rd World so don't count..even though you say gun control will reduce gun violence....

Now tell me...are Canada and Sweden 3rd World?


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 10, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




And here we have Sweden....
Sweden s 3rd largest city hit by multiple blasts police plead for help to tackle violence spike RT News

on Sweden being the rape capitol of Europe...
The Swedes and the Clash of Civilizations Roger s Rules


June 2015 violence in Sweden...
Violence Erupts in Sweden as Ethnic Groups Clash in Race Riots Sputnik International

Serial shooter from 09-10 in Sweden..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009–10_Malmö_shootings



The cause of violence in Sweden....immigration from violent 3rd world countries...


Another shooting in Roseng rd. Was Fox News right about Malm 12 years ago Swedish Surveyor


*2015-06-04 -On Wednesday night, at 19.30 a 35-year-old man was found by emergency services in a car after having been shot in the head in Rosengård, one of Malmös “no-go zones“. *

The man was transported to the hospital and the police have labelled the crime attempted murder/manslaughter.

On a more positive note: 6 men (ethnicity withheld) were indicted this Tuesday for the bombings which plagued Malmö last year.

[…] Rosengard was once one of the programme’s proudest achievements: a high-rise development that was close to the centre of Malmö, one of Sweden’s industrial powerhouses, but surrounded by open space. Today over 80% of its population of 24,000 are immigrants. The local shops have names such as Babylon and Lebanon. Women in hijabs and headscarves cart their shopping through the freezing rain. Men sit in cafés drinking strong coffee and keeping dry. A truck sells falafel sandwiches.

[…] Mass immigration is posing serious problems for the region. For the Nordic countries to be able to afford their welfare states they need to have 80% of their adults in the workforce, but labour-force participation among non-European immigrants is much lower than that. In Sweden only 51% of non-Europeans have a job, compared with over 84% of native Swedes. The Nordic countries need to persuade their citizens that they are getting a good return on their taxes, but mass immigration is creating a class of people who are permanently dependent on the state.

– the Economist, Feb 2nd 2013


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 10, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




Australia...gun crime is on the rise........even with their extreme gun control.....

Gun found every two days in Melbourne s red zone 


Police are discovering guns in cars every two days in Melbourne's north-west, which has been dubbed the "red zone" by officers concerned about a growing gangster culture in the region.

The alarming figure, obtained from The Police Association, follows anecdotal and statistical evidence of a burgeoning gun culture among young men in the city's north-western fringe. 

Police working in the large region, which includes Broadmeadows, Sunshine and Werribee, have reported:

Advertisement

Firearm-related incidents, such as drive-by shootings, every six days.
An increasing trend of children as young as 16 carrying guns.
Regularly finding guns in cars, including sawn-off shotguns and an automatic machine gun, during routine car intercepts.
Guns stolen from rural homes being used in violent crime in the north-west. Some 530 guns were stolen in rural Victoria in 2013.
It comes as the Crime Statistics Agency released figures on Thursday showing an almost threefold jump in firearm offences in the north-west over the past five years, from 581 in the year to March 2011 to 1332 in the 12 months to April 2015.

*A similar trend was reported statewide, with firearm offences rising more than 50 per cent to 13,626.*


news video on increasing gun crime...shows robbery and injured...

Gun crime red zone


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 10, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




And how easy is it to get fully automatic rifles in Europe...the land of extreme gun control....

This story tracks gun smuggling in Europe.....lots of it....
European Police Face Being Outgunned by Jihadists WIth Assault Rifles


French police believe rifles are on sale in French cities for between €1,000 and €1,500. Earlier this month, Philippe Capon, head of the French police union UNSA, told Bloomberg News, “The French black market for weapons has been inundated with eastern European war artillery and arms.” A French police source told TIME that the weapons from the _Charlie Hebdo_attack came from the Balkans.

That is not the only source of weaponry. Donald says he fears that the continent might be facing a fresh influx of weapons from North Africa in the wake of the Arab Spring revolts. In August, 2011, Libyan rebels looted large quantities of mortars, tank shells and other munitions when Moammar Gaddafi’s regime collapsed. Although most of those weapons are believed to have filtered across North and West Africa, some could also have made their way to Europe.




aanother story on ease terrorists get guns....

Getting a gun legally in Europe may be hard but terrorists have little trouble - The Washington Post


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 10, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




What did you say about Western Europe...

European Police Face Being Outgunned by Jihadists WIth Assault Rifles

As Europe struggles to crack down on illegal weapons, some police recruits face a new training exercise: Go buy a Kalashnikov rifle. Donald says that in “a city in Europe,” which he would not name, “very young officers with no training or experience” were recently told to go find an assault weapon on the streets from an illegal arms dealer. “One came back two hours later with an AK-47,” Donald says. “He bought it for €1,000.”


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 10, 2015)

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




And again...you were saying about Western Europe...


In contrast with the free-firing United States, Europe is generally seen as a haven from serious gun violence. Here in Denmark, handguns and semiautomatic rifles are all but banned. Hunting rifles are legally available only to those with squeaky-clean backgrounds who have passed a rigorous exam covering everything from gun safety to the mating habits of Denmark’s wildlife.

“There’s a book about 1,000 pages thick,” said Tonni Rigby, one of only two licensed firearms dealers in Copenhagen. “You have to know all of it.”


But if you want an illicit assault rifle, such as the one used by a 22-year-old to rake a Copenhagen cafe with 28 bullets on Saturday, all it takes are a few connections and some cash.

*“It’s very easy to get such a weapon,” said Hans Jorgen Bonnichsen, a former operations director for the Danish security service PET. “It’s not only a problem for Denmark. It’s a problem for all of Europe.”*


**************


*You can find Kalashnikovs for sale near the train station in Brussels,” acknowledged a Brussels-based European Union official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the record. “They’re available even to very average criminals.”*

In the case of the Paris attackers, they were able to obtain an entire arsenal: AK-47 assault rifles, pistols, a Skorpion submachine gun and even a rocket-propelled-grenade launcher. All of it was purchased in Brussels for about $5,000, according to Belgian media reports.


----------



## HUGGY (Aug 10, 2015)

SuperDemocrat said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...



What we have or don't have wasn't the question.


----------



## HUGGY (Aug 10, 2015)

Odium said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Odium said:
> ...



It CAN work if the capitalists don't stack the decks to unfairly swindle Americans such as paying congress to make it illegal to have medicare and the VA bargain for the prices of meds and make it illegal to go to other countries to buy legal meds from a much cheaper system.  This is only one example but regulated FAIRLY and OPENLY capitalism can as I have said be the best system.  It just doesn't work out that way when the fox is guarding the hen house.


----------



## HUGGY (Aug 10, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> Socialists think you should be able to just take the nice stuff of other people, and kill those people if they don't want to give it up.




Cool!  A twofer!!  Ya get to kill em AND get their shit?  What a great system!


----------



## Political Junky (Aug 10, 2015)

2aguy said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


Yes -
U.S. Companies Are Stashing 2.1 Trillion Overseas to Avoid Taxes - Bloomberg Business


----------



## koshergrl (Aug 10, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Socialists think you should be able to just take the nice stuff of other people, and kill those people if they don't want to give it up.
> ...


 Yes, I know that's the way you see it.


----------



## Bleipriester (Aug 10, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Here you go...this explains things pretty well.....


And this is how they live...


----------



## HUGGY (Aug 10, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



Of course you do.  You know a lot of things good people are disproving every day.  Go ahead on with your closed mind.  It's good for a laugh occasionally.


----------



## IsaacNewton (Aug 11, 2015)

rightwinger said:


>



That is good.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 11, 2015)

Political Junky said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




Good for them.  Maybe when we have a sane tax system they will bring the money home...they earned it, they should keep it.


----------



## koshergrl (Aug 11, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...


If only you knew wtf you were talking about, even half the time, then maybe your comments would occasionally make a point.


----------



## DonaldFG (Aug 12, 2015)

I am admittedly late coming to this thread, but anyway here is my take.

Capitalists have been using negative propaganda against anything that furthers or boosts the common good from the beginning of their adoption of this system of greed.

The only hope our human species has to reach the potential our intelligence is capable of is to finally learn that we must work together as a team for the good of all.

We are basically social creatures, and it is through our social interactions that good is achieved.  When we don't interact and instead isolate ourselves in our thinking, bad stuff happens.  Socialism should be defined as working for the common good, not as a form of government.  Then it is up to the people what comes of that, and not some minority who thinks they should be boss.


----------



## 2aguy (Aug 12, 2015)

DonaldFG said:


> I am admittedly late coming to this thread, but anyway here is my take.
> 
> Capitalists have been using negative propaganda against anything that furthers or boosts the common good from the beginning of their adoption of this system of greed.
> 
> ...




Capitalism has at it's core...how can we make people happy so they will give us money and make us happy......you guys....how much can we take from other people so they aren't better off than us so we can feel happy about our lives........


----------



## DonaldFG (Aug 12, 2015)

2aguy said:


> Capitalism has at it's core...how can we make people happy so they will give us money and make us happy......you guys....how much can we take from other people so they aren't better off than us so we can feel happy about our lives........



Well, when will they start working on how to "make people happy"?  So far capitalists have only slightly touched on this creed.  But they have done the following:


Invented an anti-poison ivy vaccine that really worked well, but discontinued manufacturing it because it was not profitable.  Why should profit determine whether it is needed?
Invented truly fantastic FM radio tuners that were crystal controlled for accuracy and adjacent channel interference.  I used to be able to bring in stations from other states that were right next to powerful local channels and they sounded as good - in stereo!  These have been discontinued also for cheaper ones with less performance.  Maybe that high quality is still available if you're willing to spend $thousands.  But this no longer services the average citizen.
I could add many more things here, but ask any average citizen how happy they are with the products they can afford and favorite products they cannot even get anymore at any price.
Corporations are not fully answering public needs as the theory goes.


----------



## FA_Q2 (Aug 12, 2015)

DonaldFG said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Capitalism has at it's core...how can we make people happy so they will give us money and make us happy......you guys....how much can we take from other people so they aren't better off than us so we can feel happy about our lives........
> ...


Point one is a complete lack of understanding how the market works.

The very fact that it was not profitable shows that it was not only unnecessary but wasteful.  Otherwise demand would have made it profitable.  

Point 2 is nonsensical as well.  You understand that production cost is higher because of a grater demand on resource.  Obviously the demand on resource was not sufficient to cover the use of the product.  That resource can go to better things than radios.  Of course there is also regulatory process that often stifle new technology because it does not fit nicely into a box that the regulators can understand.  Capitalism drives innovation - that is simple fact.  

There are things that the government does well - I happen to like police and fire departments protecting the people and capitalist markets work far better in areas that are ruled by law - public court systems.  However, capitalist markets, under the correct controls, are extremely efficient at raising EVERYONE to higher standards.  Heavier socialist systems are very good at LOWERING everyone to a much worse standard.


----------



## DonaldFG (Aug 13, 2015)

FA_Q2 said:


> DonaldFG said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...



Isn't the point of capitalism to provide for our human needs?  It is not doing that when it fails to make products to help us all. The "market" only works for those with money!  And it does not provide sufficien5 means for


----------



## DonaldFG (Aug 13, 2015)

FA_Q2 said:


> DonaldFG said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...



Sorry!  Using a tablet is not so easy.

I wanted to say capitalism is not providing sufficient means for average folks to make the income they need - and it is not because they are lazy and don't want to work.


----------

