# What is Truth?



## Mindful

*An overview of the philosophy of truth.*
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Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth._ —Thoreau

Truth tends to lead to successful action. In that much, truth has instrumental value. But truth also has intrinsic value. Given the choice between a life of limitless pleasure as a brain in a vat and a genuine human life along with all its pain and suffering, most people opt for the latter.

In Plato’s _Cratylus_, Socrates says that _aletheia_ (Greek, ‘truth’) is a compression of the phrase ‘a wandering that is divine’. Since Plato, many thinkers have spoken of truth and God in the same breath, and truth has also been linked with things like justice, power, and freedom. According to John the Apostle, Jesus said to the Jews: “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

When Truth Isn't Truth

What Is Truth?


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## Mindful




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## Mindful

For example:

- Today, God may be dying, but what about truth? Rudy Giuliani, Donald Trump’s personal lawyer, claimed that “Truth isn’t truth," while Kellyanne Conway, Trump’s counsellor, presented the public with what she called “alternative facts." Over in the U.K. in the run-up to the Brexit referendum, Michael Gove, then Minister of Justice and Lord Chancellor, opined that people "have had enough of experts."

One way to understand truth is simply to look at its opposites, namely, lies and bullsh*t. The liar must track the truth in order to conceal it. In contrast, the bullsh*tter has no regard or sensitivity for the truth, or even for what his or her audience believes.


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## Hugo Furst

Mindful said:


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## Moonglow

*What is Truth?*

The opposite of a lie..


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## Moonglow

Truth is something that is excluded when she asks," Do these pants make my butt look big?".


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## Mindful

WillHaftawaite said:


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Is that your truth? Or mine?


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## Mindful

Moonglow said:


> *What is Truth?*
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> The opposite of a lie..



Brilliant!

How do you  think them up?


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## Moonglow

Mindful said:


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> *What is Truth?*
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> The opposite of a lie..
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I have this machine in the back that I,,,hey,, that's a secret..


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## Sunni Man

Mindful said:


> Given the choice between a life of limitless pleasure as a brain in a vat and a genuine human life along with all its pain and suffering, most people opt for the latter.


That is not true judging by todays hedonistic, materialist, society. ...


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## Dajjal

Truth, either there is a God or there is not. One of those things must be true.


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## Likkmee

The bible in Aramiac is truth. Everything else is bullshit but Rustoleum makes a decent paint


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## Natural Citizen

Mindful said:


> Since Plato, many thinkers have spoken of truth and God in the same breath, and truth has also been linked with things like justice, power, and freedom.



I'm reminded of a relevant quote by the late Carl Sagan. One that I tend to agree with fully.

_''Plato and Aristotle were comfortable in a slave society. They offered justifications for oppression. They served tyrants. They taught the alienation of the body from the mind... They separated thought from matter. They divorced the Earth from the Heavens, divisions which were to dominate Western thinking for more than twenty centuries....''
_


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## Mindful

*Quotes*

The *truth* is you don't know what is going to happen tomorrow. ... 
A lie can travel half way around the world while the *truth* is putting on its shoes. ... 
*Truth* is everybody is going to hurt you: you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for.


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## Mindful

Types of truths.

Arithmetical, Geometrical, Logical (Analytic), Synthetic, and Ethical Truths


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## ding

Mindful said:


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That would be perception of truth.


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## Mindful

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Trust you to convolute the matter.


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## ding

Mindful said:


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No. Quite the opposite. I am deconvoluting the subject. Truth and perception of truth are two different things.


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## Mindful

ding said:


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> Is that your truth? Or mine?
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> No. Quite the opposite. I am deconvoluting the subject. Truth and perception of truth are two different things.
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As if I didn't know?

Like my perception of you?


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## ding

Mindful said:


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> No. Quite the opposite. I am deconvoluting the subject. Truth and perception of truth are two different things.
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> As if I didn't know?
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> Like my perception of you?
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I don’t know what you know or don’t know. That’s one of the reasons people have conversations; to figure that out. Technically I still don’t know what you believe on this subject. You don’t seem to believe that truth exists independent of perception of truth.


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## OldLady

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> Is that your truth? Or mine?
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> No. Quite the opposite. I am deconvoluting the subject. Truth and perception of truth are two different things.
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But ding, how can you or I know what truth is, separate from our perception of it?  Everything we know is a perception, isn't it?


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## Chuz Life

Truth is facts, reality, honesty and acceptance, no matter the personal or political costs.


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## OldLady

Chuz Life said:


> Truth is facts, reality, honesty and acceptance, no matter the personal or political costs.


Yes, but we cannot know reality or "facts" outside our individual perception of it.  It's not a big deal if we're talking about What Is A Tree?  but it can be quite an issue when we discuss political matters.


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## Chuz Life

OldLady said:


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> Truth is facts, reality, honesty and acceptance, no matter the personal or political costs.
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> Yes, but we cannot know reality or "facts" outside our individual perception of it.  It's not a big deal if we're talking about What Is A Tree?  but it can be quite an issue when we discuss political matters.
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In my view, the truth is the truth no matter how difficult it is to find or to get others to acknowledge it. Even in politics

Argumets are eventually refined over time and eventually, even the most deniable truths will be known.


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## buttercup

*John 14:6* answers your question.


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## ding

OldLady said:


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> That would be perception of truth.
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> Trust you to convolute the matter.
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> No. Quite the opposite. I am deconvoluting the subject. Truth and perception of truth are two different things.
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> But ding, how can you or I know what truth is, separate from our perception of it?  Everything we know is a perception, isn't it?
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Let’s use forced slavery as an example. Is forced slavery ever right?  Or is it my perception that forced slavery is wrong?


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## ding

Chuz Life said:


> OldLady said:
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> Truth is facts, reality, honesty and acceptance, no matter the personal or political costs.
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> Yes, but we cannot know reality or "facts" outside our individual perception of it.  It's not a big deal if we're talking about What Is A Tree?  but it can be quite an issue when we discuss political matters.
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> In my view, the truth is the truth no matter how difficult it is to find or to get others to acknowledge it. Even in politics
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> Argumets are eventually refined over time and eventually, even the most deniable truths will be known.
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I agree.  Truth is eventually discovered because error cannot stand. Eventually error fails because it is not true.


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## ding

OldLady said:


> Chuz Life said:
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> Truth is facts, reality, honesty and acceptance, no matter the personal or political costs.
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> Yes, but we cannot know reality or "facts" outside our individual perception of it.  It's not a big deal if we're talking about What Is A Tree?  but it can be quite an issue when we discuss political matters.
Click to expand...

You can if you eliminate bias and a preference for an outcome. The difference between subjective and objective is bias.


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## Jonathan McCreevey

Mindful said:


> *An overview of the philosophy of truth.*
> 
> _Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth._ —Thoreau
> 
> Truth tends to lead to successful action. In that much, truth has instrumental value. But truth also has intrinsic value. Given the choice between a life of limitless pleasure as a brain in a vat and a genuine human life along with all its pain and suffering, most people opt for the latter.
> 
> In Plato’s _Cratylus_, Socrates says that _aletheia_ (Greek, ‘truth’) is a compression of the phrase ‘a wandering that is divine’. Since Plato, many thinkers have spoken of truth and God in the same breath, and truth has also been linked with things like justice, power, and freedom. According to John the Apostle, Jesus said to the Jews: “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
> 
> When Truth Isn't Truth
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> What Is Truth?


The mind wanders


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## Jonathan McCreevey

Mindful said:


> Over in the U.K. in the run-up to the Brexit referendum, Michael Gove, then Minister of Justice and Lord Chancellor, opined that people "have had enough of experts."


What are the "people" themselves gonna do?


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## Jonathan McCreevey

Moonglow said:


> *What is Truth?*
> 
> The opposite of a lie..


Superman is NOT Bizarro


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## Jonathan McCreevey

Mindful said:


> *Quotes*
> 
> The *truth* is you don't know what is going to happen tomorrow. ...
> A lie can travel half way around the world while the *truth* is putting on its shoes. ...
> *Truth* is everybody is going to hurt you: you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for.


Why do you refer to the truth as it or an it? Reminded me of the song "Put your shoes on Lucy, cause were going to the city".


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## Jonathan McCreevey

Mindful said:


> *An overview of the philosophy of truth.*
> 
> _Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth._ —Thoreau
> 
> Truth tends to lead to successful action. In that much, truth has instrumental value. But truth also has intrinsic value. Given the choice between a life of limitless pleasure as a brain in a vat and a genuine human life along with all its pain and suffering, most people opt for the latter.
> 
> In Plato’s _Cratylus_, Socrates says that _aletheia_ (Greek, ‘truth’) is a compression of the phrase ‘a wandering that is divine’. Since Plato, many thinkers have spoken of truth and God in the same breath, and truth has also been linked with things like justice, power, and freedom. According to John the Apostle, Jesus said to the Jews: “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
> 
> When Truth Isn't Truth
> 
> What Is Truth?


Is a pearl a seed?


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