# Inalienable Rights



## DustyInfinity

With religion dying in the United States, and already gone in Europe, what does this do to the concept of inalienable rights?  How does Western Culture define basic human rights without a concept of God?  Does this mean the government is the sole decider on what human dignity and sovereignty is?  What is to stop the government from deciding that political enemies can be used for firewood?  If there are no God given rights, does that mean there are no rights at all?


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## Billy_Kinetta

It does nothing to it.  Those who believe that rights are given by God, and not by man - the basis of the Constitution of the United States - will fight from that position to preserve them.


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## Damaged Eagle

The right to survive the best one can.

*****SMILE*****




"Don't handicap your children by making their lives easy.” 
*Robert A. Heinlein*


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## H B Lowrie

DustyInfinity said:


> With religion dying in the United States, and already gone in Europe, what does this do to the concept of inalienable rights?  How does Western Culture define basic human rights without a concept of God?  Does this mean the government is the sole decider on what human dignity and sovereignty is?  What is to stop the government from deciding that political enemies can be used for firewood?  If there are no God given rights, does that mean there are no rights at all?



That's always been nothing but a slogan in america from day one, and america is europe's baby.  All that happened there was that two bickering factions of an anciently rooted aristocracy had a pissing match.  The Church was the govt in europe for a long time.

Founders had a nice spin, some do argue had a nice intent with blind spots overall .  Here the govt owned what "God" thought.  How ya think we cleansed this land and enslaved folk?  We checked in with "God" and He said, "cool".  Preacher said so.  Jesus says otherwise, never mattered.  Hell, Papal Bulls of the 1500s called for the extermination of the indigenous peoples of the Americas.

Sounds to me like there's been a whole lotta shite swallowed for a mighty long time there.  Pass.  The people have always been firewood and religion helped fan the flames, at least in america.  I won't speak for europe, but I hear stories.


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## DustyInfinity

Horrible things have been done in the name of religion almost from the beginning, but that does not mean humans are just pawns to human judgement and power.  I personally believe in a right and wrong outside of subjective definition.  You don't have to say it is God, but I think people are more than the worst of our tendencies.


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## Slyhunter

DustyInfinity said:


> Horrible things have been done in the name of religion almost from the beginning, but that does not mean humans are just pawns to human judgement and power.  I personally believe in a right and wrong outside of subjective definition.  You don't have to say it is God, but I think people are more than the worst of our tendencies.


You can be Atheist and still believe that Intelligent life should be protected above all other life. Do what you will as long as it does not conflict with another person's right to do the same.


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## JBvM

DustyInfinity said:


> With religion dying in the United States, and already gone in Europe, what does this do to the concept of inalienable rights?  How does Western Culture define basic human rights without a concept of God?  Does this mean the government is the sole decider on what human dignity and sovereignty is?  What is to stop the government from deciding that political enemies can be used for firewood?  If there are no God given rights, does that mean there are no rights at all?


How does Western Culture define basic human rights without a concept of God?

I didn't know some people think you need a god to argue for basic human rights. How odd. May as well claim people can't be good without the threat of a punishing lord in the skies.

We have a US Constitution.It does not need a god approval. It is based on laws


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## DustyInfinity

JBvM said:


> DustyInfinity said:
> 
> 
> 
> With religion dying in the United States, and already gone in Europe, what does this do to the concept of inalienable rights?  How does Western Culture define basic human rights without a concept of God?  Does this mean the government is the sole decider on what human dignity and sovereignty is?  What is to stop the government from deciding that political enemies can be used for firewood?  If there are no God given rights, does that mean there are no rights at all?
> 
> 
> 
> How does Western Culture define basic human rights without a concept of God?
> 
> I didn't know some people think you need a god to argue for basic human rights. How odd. May as well claim people can't be good without the threat of a punishing lord in the skies.
> 
> We have a US Constitution.It does not need a god approval. It is based on laws
Click to expand...


So basically, individual rights are completely determined by judges and government?  With the push for a 'flexible' constitution, and with all the anti-nationalism pundits, I am a bit concerned about what human rights will become.


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## Slyhunter

DustyInfinity said:


> JBvM said:
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> DustyInfinity said:
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> With religion dying in the United States, and already gone in Europe, what does this do to the concept of inalienable rights?  How does Western Culture define basic human rights without a concept of God?  Does this mean the government is the sole decider on what human dignity and sovereignty is?  What is to stop the government from deciding that political enemies can be used for firewood?  If there are no God given rights, does that mean there are no rights at all?
> 
> 
> 
> How does Western Culture define basic human rights without a concept of God?
> 
> I didn't know some people think you need a god to argue for basic human rights. How odd. May as well claim people can't be good without the threat of a punishing lord in the skies.
> 
> We have a US Constitution.It does not need a god approval. It is based on laws
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So basically, individual rights are completely determined by judges and government?  With the push for a 'flexible' constitution, and with all the anti-nationalism pundits, I am a bit concerned about what human rights will become.
Click to expand...

Individuals should be free to do any damn thing they want as long as it doesn't interfere with another individuals right to do the same.


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## JBvM

DustyInfinity said:


> JBvM said:
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> DustyInfinity said:
> 
> 
> 
> With religion dying in the United States, and already gone in Europe, what does this do to the concept of inalienable rights?  How does Western Culture define basic human rights without a concept of God?  Does this mean the government is the sole decider on what human dignity and sovereignty is?  What is to stop the government from deciding that political enemies can be used for firewood?  If there are no God given rights, does that mean there are no rights at all?
> 
> 
> 
> How does Western Culture define basic human rights without a concept of God?
> 
> I didn't know some people think you need a god to argue for basic human rights. How odd. May as well claim people can't be good without the threat of a punishing lord in the skies.
> 
> We have a US Constitution.It does not need a god approval. It is based on laws
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So basically, individual rights are completely determined by judges and government?  With the push for a 'flexible' constitution, and with all the anti-nationalism pundits, I am a bit concerned about what human rights will become.
Click to expand...

individual rights are completely determined by judges and government? human rights?  wtf are you talking about here?

you appear to be conflating things so much any distinctions are lost


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## JBvM

Slyhunter said:


> Individuals should be free to do any damn thing they want as long as it doesn't interfere with another individuals right to do the same.


I agree. We need more heroin and other drugs in red states, so people can kill themselves and thin the herd


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## Penelope

Billy_Kinetta said:


> It does nothing to it.  Those who believe that rights are given by God, and not by man - the basis of the Constitution of the United States - will fight from that position to preserve them.



It went out right after the constitution was wrote, with the slaves, women, and the poor.  Also all men(humans) are not really created equal , are they?


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## DustyInfinity

I fear we will soon get to see how people determine how to treat other people.  My guess is however it benefits a group's political power.  We are already seeing advocates for the 'other side is evil, so we can do whatever we want to them.'  Getting rid of God is seen to be a great achievement to some, now we get to see how people treat other people without the concept.  I'm guessing it will be just as bad or worse than any of the past atrocities done in the name of religion.


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## RetiredGySgt

Over 70 percent of the US is religious so I doubt it is so soon going out.


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## C_Clayton_Jones

DustyInfinity said:


> With religion dying in the United States, and already gone in Europe, what does this do to the concept of inalienable rights?  How does Western Culture define basic human rights without a concept of God?  Does this mean the government is the sole decider on what human dignity and sovereignty is?  What is to stop the government from deciding that political enemies can be used for firewood?  If there are no God given rights, does that mean there are no rights at all?


The doctrine of inalienable rights manifests as a consequence of our being human, separate and apart from religious dogma. 

Indeed, religion is often in conflict with our inalienable rights, such as Christian conservatives seeking to deny gay and transgender Americans their rights and protected liberties.


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## PoliticalChic

DustyInfinity said:


> With religion dying in the United States, and already gone in Europe, what does this do to the concept of inalienable rights?  How does Western Culture define basic human rights without a concept of God?  Does this mean the government is the sole decider on what human dignity and sovereignty is?  What is to stop the government from deciding that political enemies can be used for firewood?  If there are no God given rights, does that mean there are no rights at all?




I wish I could give this post two stars, Dusty.


I'd like to add this modifier.....there is no Western Civilization sans the basis of the Judeo-Christian religion and morality.

Our Founders knew it, and that's the source of our rights, our Creator.



"If there's no God - making _ourselves _the source of ethics for everybody, or declaring that nobody can be the source of ethics for anybody, and therefore morality is, again, purely subjective. Abortion may be legal, and a woman’s right….but this doesn’t it is ethically right.

The Greeks believed in a version of same in which they placed deformed babies on the hillside. The reason I use the Greek example of ugly children is not because we do it today, but because they had _reason _on their side. Reason supports a lot of things, as for example, a very liberal position on abortion.

If there is no God, "Love your neighbor as yourself" is just a good idea. That's why it is written, incidentally, in Leviticus, "Love your neighbor as yourself, I am God." I, God, tell you to be decent to other people."
Dennis Prager


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