# Gunman at DC Navy Yard shoots at least 7



## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Washington Navy Yard shooting: Active shooter sought in Southeast D.C. | WJLA.com

Police search for active shooter on grounds of Washington Navy Yard in Southeast D.C. - The Washington Post

Once again, a nut case with a gun has shot people and is now at large. As with Boston, people are being advised to "shelter in place" and schools are on shut down. 

Bring on the nutters with their lame ass excuses.


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)

developing...

Shooting At Navy Yard In Washington, DC | ThinkProgress

Cops are searching for the man who opened fire on workers at the Naval Sea Systems Command Headquarters building hitting at least 7. The Navy Yard is now on lockdown. At least 3,000 people work there.


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## tinydancer (Sep 16, 2013)

Not good. Prayers for the victims.

* BREAKING NEWS: Four shot at Washington Navy Yard after gunman goes on rampage at base and he's still on the loose

    U.S. Navy Confirms at least five victims of shooting at the Naval Sea Systems Command Headquarters in Washington D.C.
    One victim of the shooting is a Washington D.C. police officer
    All of the people wounded are in critical condition, authorities said
    U.S. Navy says 'one lone gunman' is still on the loose armed with a rifle

*

BREAKING NEWS: Four shot at Washington Navy Yard after gunman goes on rampage at base and he's still on the loose | Mail Online


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## theHawk (Sep 16, 2013)

Let the assault on the second Amendment begin....


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)

How much do you want to bet the mass-murderer is black or Muslim or both?


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## Tank (Sep 16, 2013)

He's black and he has shot 10


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)

Well, what do you know? The shooter is a negro, around 5'10"-6 feet tall, 170 pounds, black shirt and black hat. Doubtful it's a Muslime. They like to blow sh*t up.

Report: Five people shot at Washington Navy Yard


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)

Tank said:


> He's black and he has shot 10



I hope they catch, torture and fry his ass


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## Katzndogz (Sep 16, 2013)

Justice for trayvon!


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)

Feds now say 4 dead, 8 wounded. The negro went on a rampage...

Active shooter sought at Washington Navy Yard after 4 injured, including police officer - Washington Times


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## Katzndogz (Sep 16, 2013)

DC has the most stringent gun laws in the nation.  In addition, this happened on a military base with it's own gun control.  Like Fort Hood, no one was allowed to have guns.   Except the guy who had a gun illegally.


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## AquaAthena (Sep 16, 2013)

Surfer said:


> developing...
> 
> Shooting At Navy Yard In Washington, DC | ThinkProgress
> 
> Cops are searching for the man who opened fire on workers at the Naval Sea Systems Command Headquarters building hitting at least 7. The Navy Yard is now on lockdown. At least 3,000 people work there.



*
#BREAKING: 4 killed and 8 injured. One shooter down* #NavyYardShooting #Navy #CNICHQ

Navy officials had reported three shots were fired at 8:20 a.m. at the headquarters of the Naval Sea Systems Command in Southeast Washington.

One of the shooting victims is a D.C. police officer.

The identity of the shooter is still unknown, Navy officials said.

Read more: Active shooter sought at Washington Navy Yard after 4 injured, including police officer - Washington Times
Follow us: [MENTION=39892]Was[/MENTION]htimes on Twitter


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)

Shooter is down?

#BREAKING: 4 killed and 8 injured. One shooter down #NavyYardShooting #Navy #CNICHQ

Active shooter sought at Washington Navy Yard after 4 injured, including police officer - Washington Times


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## Katzndogz (Sep 16, 2013)

Now the Navy might understand what civilians go through every day on the streets.


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)

I DESPISE these cowards who go in and shoot up innocent Americans. I hope they fry his ass. 
S-L-O-W-L-Y!


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)




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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)




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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)




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## QuickHitCurepon (Sep 16, 2013)

Holy shit!


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Surfer said:


> How much do you want to bet the mass-murderer is black or Muslim or both?



Gosh. Surely didn't take long for the ignorance racist cockroaches to come out from under their rocks.


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Gosh. Surely didn't take long for the ignorance racist cockroaches to come out from under their rocks.



Gosh. Surely didn't take long for me to be proven right. @sshole.


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## Meathead (Sep 16, 2013)

theHawk said:


> Let the assault on the second Amendment begin....


On a military base?!


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)

Latest reports say the negro is contained but not yet in custody.

News from The Associated Press


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## Edgetho (Sep 16, 2013)

The left will be crushed to learn it isn't a White Guy


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)

Varying reports say 3 shooters, 1 down, 1 contained...

Police search for active shooter on grounds of Washington Navy Yard in Southeast D.C. - The Washington Post


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)

Most of the Twitter feed says the shooter(s) are black male(s). The DC media is going out of its way to avoid describing the negro shooters. The only ones who will are FOX and a few print media...


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## Edgetho (Sep 16, 2013)

Reports are notoriously undependable in the early stages of things like this....

Shooter is in fatigues, has a long gun and maybe a shotgun,

Multiple shooters, multiple deaths....

chaos


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## BullKurtz (Sep 16, 2013)

Surfer said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
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> > Gosh. Surely didn't take long for the ignorance racist cockroaches to come out from under their rocks.
> ...


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## Brain357 (Sep 16, 2013)

3 shooters?
Police search for active shooters on grounds of Washington Navy Yard in Southeast D.C. - The Washington Post


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## Vox (Sep 16, 2013)

more gun control laws would prevent the bad guy from breaking the law, right?


==============

prayers for the wounded


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## Edgetho (Sep 16, 2013)

Vox said:


> more gun control laws would prevent the bad guy from breaking the law, right?
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> ==============
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Absolutely.  Criminals always obey paper laws, doncha know?


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## Black_Label (Sep 16, 2013)

Edgetho said:


> The left will be crushed to learn it isn't a White Guy



As usual, it's the right wing trash that politicize every tragedy.


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## Harry Dresden (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Surfer said:
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> > How much do you want to bet the mass-murderer is black or Muslim or both?
> ...



you led the way.....are you disappointed a little kid wasn't killed?......


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## Little-Acorn (Sep 16, 2013)

Meathead said:


> theHawk said:
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> > Let the assault on the second Amendment begin....
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It appears to be a building where people manned desks. Not dissimilar from a civilian office building.

Anybody know any more details about what kind of place it was? Any combat personnel stationed there?

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-09-16-08-52-32

A Defense Department official says several people have been killed and as many as 10 have been wounded in a shooting at the Washington Navy Yard.

The official also says the shooter is "contained" but not yet in custody.

(snip)

A U.S. Park Police helicopter hovered over the building and appeared to drop a basket or a stretcher with a person onto the roof.

Naval Sea Systems Command is the largest of the Navy's five system commands and accounts for a quarter of the Navy's entire budget. It builds, buys and maintains the Navy's ships and submarines and their combat systems.


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)

BullKurtzUSMC said:


> Surfer said:
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Thank you for serving our country.



Harry Dresden said:


> you led the way.....are you disappointed a little kid wasn't killed?......



I don't believe in killing innocent children. That would be you godless liberals who believe in killing children before/during birth and any time after. Maggots.


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)

Update: 4 dead

Four Dead Among 10 Shot at D.C. Navy Yard; At Least 1 Shooter Still At Large | NBC4 Washington


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## QuickHitCurepon (Sep 16, 2013)

CNN TV Live -- On Air Now

The suspect is a six foot tall black male.


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)

WaPo now say 2 shooters

Police say 2 shooters have killed 4, injured 8 on grounds of Washington Navy Yard - The Washington Post


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## AceRothstein (Sep 16, 2013)

3 shooters?  Wonder if it was some sort of heist gone wrong.


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## Redfish (Sep 16, 2013)

Little-Acorn said:


> Meathead said:
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It is basically the procurement office for the Navy.   Civil servants, military, and contractors.  Almost all desk jobs.   Security at all gates, you need a badge or pass to get in.   No metal dectectors as I remember it.


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)




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## Crackerjaxon (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Washington Navy Yard shooting: Active shooter sought in Southeast D.C. | WJLA.com
> 
> Police search for active shooter on grounds of Washington Navy Yard in Southeast D.C. - The Washington Post
> 
> ...




Yes, the only way to stop that guy is to take my gun away,

You can't argue with unassailable logic like that.


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## Katzndogz (Sep 16, 2013)

Two shooters based on two different kinds of guns used and two different kinds of bullets.  It could be one guy with two guns.


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Vox said:


> more gun control laws would prevent the bad guy from breaking the law, right?
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> ==============
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Its a military base. 

DUH.


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)

Black_Label said:


> As usual, it's the right wing trash that politicize every tragedy



This shooting *IS* political you godless fcking fckwit. The negro shot up U.S. Military employees. Your ignorance is a burden, isn't it?


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Black_Label said:


> Edgetho said:
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Trash is exactly the right word and they'll have several pages of garbage before noon.


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## CrusaderFrank (Sep 16, 2013)

Another one of Obama's kids goes bad


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Surfer said:


> BullKurtzUSMC said:
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You guys crack me up. Instead of ever, just once, trying to understand or converse, you immediately attack. 

Just fyi for Surfer cockroach - Harry Dresden is a professional rw troll who goes from thread to thread, posting really idiotic attacks on me. He's on your side.


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Katzndogz said:


> DC has the most stringent gun laws in the nation.  In addition, this happened on a military base with it's own gun control.  Like Fort Hood, no one was allowed to have guns.   Except the guy who had a gun illegally.



I have to admit that I had no idea that MILITARY BASES must obey city laws but, hey - racist katzen roach is all knowing.


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## Little-Acorn (Sep 16, 2013)

CNN says police are reporting only one shooter:

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Two law officers among 10 people injured in naval facility shooting - CNN.com

Police spokesman Chris Kelly described the suspect as an adult male, about 6 feet tall with a bald head and medium complexion, dressed in a black top and black jeans.

Two witnesses told CNN affiliate WJLA that they heard a fire alarm go off in the building where they worked, then saw a man with a rifle down the hallway as they exited the building. "He aimed the gun and fired our way," a man who identified himself as Todd Brundidge told WJLA, adding, "I couldn't believe it."


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## CrusaderFrank (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


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You started this thread about guns you stupid fuck


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Crackerjaxon said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
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> > Washington Navy Yard shooting: Active shooter sought in Southeast D.C. | WJLA.com
> ...



Show me one post in any thread, where I have said I think guns should be "taken away" from citizens. I have no intention of giving up my guns and you're a liar if you say differently.  PROVE YOUR LIES OR STFU.

The FACT is, its the nutters who want to make sure these shooters have free and easy access to any gun they want.


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## Redfish (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Crackerjaxon said:
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DC has some of the strictest gun laws in the country.  So does Chicago.


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## CrusaderFrank (Sep 16, 2013)

Only guys like Stalin, Hitler, Mao and Pol Pot should determine who should be armed.

Has the Left stopped quoting Hitler on gun control?


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Another one of Obama's kids goes bad



Haha! 



Luddly Neddite said:


> Just fyi for Surfer cockroach



Your avatar is stupid (like you!) and about 60 years too late.


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

redfish said:


> luddly neddite said:
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*
Its not dc.

Its a military base. *


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

You must have an ID card to get into this base. If you do not, your car is searched. 






For those who missed it:

*ITS NOT DC.

ITS A MILITARY BASE. *








.


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## KissMy (Sep 16, 2013)

AceRothstein said:


> 3 shooters?  Wonder if it was some sort of heist gone wrong.



Could be a terror cell attacking military.


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)

An eye-witness says it was one guy wearing blue. Lots of differing reports...

'Lucky he was a bad shot': Eyewitness' haunting encounter with Navy Yard gunman - Washington Times


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Surfer said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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> > Another one of Obama's kids goes bad
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Nope. 

As much as you nutters hate it, this is still the United States and we still have our Constitution. 

To say that our Constitution is "60 years" too late is just wrong. 

Why don't you move to Russia with the other treasonous rw's.


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Gun free zones work!!



When did military bases become gun free zones?


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Only guys like Stalin, Hitler, Mao and Pol Pot should determine who should be armed.
> 
> Has the Left stopped quoting Hitler on gun control?



Has the right forgotten that our military is armed?


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## Spoonman (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Washington Navy Yard shooting: Active shooter sought in Southeast D.C. | WJLA.com
> 
> Police search for active shooter on grounds of Washington Navy Yard in Southeast D.C. - The Washington Post
> 
> ...



once again tough gun laws fail to prevent this and he did use bidens recommended weapon of choice.  more liberal failure


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)

AlJazeera says 3 shooters. I tend to believe them. They know stuff...

Fatalities and injuries reported in shooting at Navy Yard in D.C. | Al Jazeera America


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> To say that our Constitution is "60 years" too late is just wrong.Why don't you move to...



I never said our Const was 60 years too late: I said YOU are, you idiotic, chronic masturbator. 
How about YOU move back to Hell where you came from, Satan.


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## QuickHitCurepon (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Vox said:
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> > more gun control laws would prevent the bad guy from breaking the law, right?
> ...



How likely a civilian intruder there would be depends if the base has a gate or not. The one I started on after basic, the Presidio of Monterey, didn't have one, but later they added one at the main entrance. 

I took a tour of the presidio about 6 years ago, but we never got near the only other entrance, and I wasn't near the back entrance, when I'd often visit the museum there, right next to the front.

Most Air Force bases when I was in the that branch of the military didn't have gates, and you would just drive right in and SPs would check the vehicle and occupants.


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
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You also missed the fact that in order to get on this base, you must either have an ID card or have your car and person searched. 

DC laws have nothing to do with this. 

GAWD. You nutters are in such a hurry to blame the WRONG thing. 

BTW, the shooter is now dead.


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)




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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

QuickHitCurepon said:


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And, STILL you have no clue what you're talking about.


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> the shooter is now dead.



One is. Some media reports say there are 2 more.


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## QuickHitCurepon (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


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I rarely do.


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## The2ndAmendment (Sep 16, 2013)

» Breaking: Four Dead In Mass Shooting at Navy Yard; Two Shooters Apprehended Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!


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## Katzndogz (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Katzndogz said:
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> > DC has the most stringent gun laws in the nation.  In addition, this happened on a military base with it's own gun control.  Like Fort Hood, no one was allowed to have guns.   Except the guy who had a gun illegally.
> ...



I really did think that everyone knew that weapons were not permitted on military bases.  Especially since it was publicized after Fort Hood.

New Firearms Policy Released

One highlight of the new policy is the ability for all Sailors to store their personal firearms in base housing or armories (when space is available), so long as they receive prior written approval from the installation commanding officer. Weapons must be stored in a locked container, a locked gun rack, or secured with approved trigger locks to keep the weapon from firing.

Weapons are still prohibited in other on-base locations, such as bachelor enlisted or bachelor officer quarters, work centers, and vehicles.

 The policy also clarifies that Sailors must comply with all federal, state, and local laws, and that *concealed weapons are never allowed on Navy installations, regardless of local law.*


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)

FOX says 2 shooters are down

Fox News - Breaking News Updates | Latest News Headlines | Photos & News Videos


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)




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## Brain357 (Sep 16, 2013)

How about we wait for facts to get political?  If its like the Boston bombing nothing we've heard is yet true.


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)

At least one shooter dead:

Navy Yard shooting deaths injuries - chicagotribune.com


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## BullKurtz (Sep 16, 2013)

Surfer said:


> Black_Label said:
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> > As usual, it's the right wing trash that politicize every tragedy
> ...


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> How about we wait for facts to get political?  If its like the Boston bombing nothing we've heard is yet true.



We said Muslimes b*mbed the Boston Marathon and that's exactly what it was: terrorist pukes! 
We are saying at least one negro shot up a U.S. Naval Building full of people and that's true.


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## Black_Label (Sep 16, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> How about we wait for facts to get political?  If its like the Boston bombing nothing we've heard is yet true.



Not possible. Anytime a tragedy happens, the right wing trash jump on it blaming "da libs"


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)

As soon as the terrorist negroes pictures are shown liberals will start bleating for them saying they were "poor, underprivileged, mistreated, misunderstood etc". They will send money for any surviving terrorists' defense. Moronic liberals...


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## Katzndogz (Sep 16, 2013)

No matter what it really is, we will be told it's workplace violence.


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## Black_Label (Sep 16, 2013)

Surfer said:


> As soon as the terrorist negroes pictures are shown liberals will start bleating for them saying they were "poor, underprivileged, mistreated, misunderstood etc". They will send money for any surviving terrorists' defense. Moronic liberals...



As soon as the terrorist teabaggers pictures are shown right wingers will start bleating for them saying they were "poor, underprivileged, mistreated, misunderstood heroes that were just standing their ground". They will send money for any surviving terrorists' defense. Moronic right wingers...


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## 007 (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Surfer said:
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> > How much do you want to bet the mass-murderer is black or Muslim or both?
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Took you even less time you shit bag, you started your anti constitution bull shit in the first post.

Jackass.


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## KissMy (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Pauli007001 said:
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Gun free zones are death traps. ID cards & guards do not make you safer. The shootings started at the security gate.


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## Black_Label (Sep 16, 2013)

007 said:


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People that go on shooting rampages _are _nutters, don't you agree? It appears not


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## 007 (Sep 16, 2013)

Black_Label said:


> Surfer said:
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> > As soon as the terrorist negroes pictures are shown liberals will start bleating for them saying they were "poor, underprivileged, mistreated, misunderstood etc". They will send money for any surviving terrorists' defense. Moronic liberals...
> ...



As soon as you get off that computer down at the queer boy bath club where you go to get a sweaty ball sack dropped in your mouth, we won't have to read anymore of your anti American libroid garbage.


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## Brain357 (Sep 16, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
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> > How about we wait for facts to get political?  If its like the Boston bombing nothing we've heard is yet true.
> ...



I think everyone should hold off till we know what really happened.


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## 007 (Sep 16, 2013)

Black_Label said:


> 007 said:
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Yes I agree, moron.

Do I agree with constitution hating leftists using instances such as these as campaigns to try and ban more guns? No.

Wise up, idiot.


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## Edgetho (Sep 16, 2013)

*Editor of Leftist Rag The Nation Blames Lack of Gun Control For D.C. Naval Yard Shooting *

Navy Yard Shooting Talk Turns to Guns, Politics Before It?s Even Over - NationalJournal.com


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## Surfer (Sep 16, 2013)

I just spent 2 hours in this thread thinking it was mine. The one I posted was merged into this one from that retarded Luddly guy. I searched for 10 minutes to make sure there was no other thread on the topic before I posted it. Luddly's was buried on page 3 with NO views or responses. What a crock. I'm out of here.


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## Black_Label (Sep 16, 2013)

007 said:


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There is nothing in the OP that says anything about banning guns, you are a fucking moron that is bitching up a storm once again, like the crybaby right wing piece of trash you are.

Get the pacifier out of your ass and put it back in your mouth shithead.


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## The2ndAmendment (Sep 16, 2013)

lol they would blame guns


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## 007 (Sep 16, 2013)

Black_Label said:


> 007 said:
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It's a known fact that you and your ball sack in mouth loving, faggot, butt buddy luddly are both anti American, constitution hating trash. The smoke from this will have hardly cleared and there'll be new calls for gun bans from your leftist garbage men in power.

Fuck off homo.


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## bodecea (Sep 16, 2013)

theHawk said:


> Let the assault on the second Amendment begin....



It shouldn't.  These things happen...life goes on.


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## whitehall (Sep 16, 2013)

Another example of "workplace violence" or an act of terrorism?


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## Edgetho (Sep 16, 2013)

whitehall said:


> Another example of "workplace violence" or an act of terrorism?



ABC is saying that it's a former 'Navy Official' whose work status had just changed.....


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## KissMy (Sep 16, 2013)

Fox News reports 12 people shot & 6 of them dead. A shooter is dead, police seek possible 2nd shooter because 2 different type bullets found.


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## Black_Label (Sep 16, 2013)

KissMy said:


> Fox News reports 12 people shot & 6 of them dead. A shooter is dead, police seek possible 2nd shooter because 2 different type bullets found.



Fox is horseshit that is not credible.


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## whitehall (Sep 16, 2013)

Obviously restrictive gun laws in the most restrictive area in the US don't work. I had occasion to visit Ft. Meyer a couple of years ago and the security was intense. Every vehicle had to pull over and the hood and trunk was examined as well as under the car. How did a 6 ft dark skinned man get on a Navy base with a rifle? Will the administration characterize it as another case of "workplace violence"?


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## QuickHitCurepon (Sep 16, 2013)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDTZCgsZGeA]BUDWEISER WASSUP ORIGINAL + PIZZA GUY - YouTube[/ame]


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## DigitalDrifter (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Surfer said:
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> > How much do you want to bet the mass-murderer is black or Muslim or both?
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And it didn't take you long (your first post) to immediately attack those who support gun rights.


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## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

Black_Label said:


> Edgetho said:
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Don't you love their strawman?  


"Let the assault on the 2nd amendment begin"

and then it's all wingnuts talking about the 2nd.


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## Black_Label (Sep 16, 2013)

DigitalDrifter said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
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Horseshit, all it says is that the person is a gun nutter, which is correct. It seems like you right wing morons think those that go on shooting sprees are "2nd amendment loving patriots exercising their rights"


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## The2ndAmendment (Sep 16, 2013)

and to think that Adam Kokesh loading a blank into a shotgun in DC was worth send over 120 federal agents, 4 APCs and 2 military grade helicopters.


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## DigitalDrifter (Sep 16, 2013)

Black_Label said:


> Edgetho said:
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Hey dumbass, go back and read the very first post  !


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## Edgetho (Sep 16, 2013)

Good thing CNN doesn't require an IQ test to work there....

Fort Hood 2009? CNN Anchor Can't Remember the Last Shooting at 'U.S. Military Facility' | NewsBusters



> CAROL COSTELLO: I used to work in Washington, live in Washington. This seems so unusual to me that a gunman could create this kind of havoc at a U.S. military facility.
> 
> BRIAN TODD: Yes.
> 
> ...


- See more at: Weasel Zippers | Scouring the bowels of the internet | Weasel Zippers


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## The2ndAmendment (Sep 16, 2013)

Gun Free Zone, once again.

Also this stinks to HIGH HELL of false flag.


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## rightwinger (Sep 16, 2013)

Another victory for our right to bear arms


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## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

...from George W. Bush speechwriter and conservative, David Frum:





 Another mass casualty shooting, this time at Washington Navy Yard. (1)
  davidfrum (@davidfrum) September 16, 2013

  In wake of this most recent mass-casualty shooting, it is important  that we all respect the feelings of Americas gun enthusiasts. (2)
  davidfrum (@davidfrum) September 16, 2013

  Observing a few simple rules of etiquette will help the post-shooting conversation to proceed in appropriate ways. (3)
  davidfrum (@davidfrum) September 16, 2013

  Rule 1: It is ghoulish to suggest in any way that the easy availability of guns might in any way enable gun slaughter.
  davidfrum (@davidfrum) September 16, 2013

  Rule 2: Gun crime in the presidents hometown proves that guns anywhere else are no fit topic of conversation.
  davidfrum (@davidfrum) September 16, 2013

  Rule 3: All gun owners are to be complimented as responsible and  law-abiding until they personally have hurt themselves or somebody else
  davidfrum (@davidfrum) September 16, 2013

  Rule 4: Any attempt to stop mass casualty shootings is political. Allowing them to continue isnon-political.
  davidfrum (@davidfrum) September 16, 2013

  Rule 5: Gun ownership is essential to freedom, as in Serbia &  Guatemala. Gun restrictions lead to tyranny, as in Australia &  Canada.
  davidfrum (@davidfrum) September 16, 2013


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## RandallFlagg (Sep 16, 2013)

whitehall said:


> Another example of "workplace violence" or an act of terrorism?



Naw...those terrible monstrous AR-15s planned this attack for years. Jumped down off the shelves at Cabellas and took off for the Navy Yards. The guys behind the AR-15s were unwitting participants.

Again. If we ban ALL guns, murder will stop and we all live in paradise after that! 


Prayers to the victims of these murdering clowns.


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## DigitalDrifter (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Surfer said:
> 
> 
> > BullKurtzUSMC said:
> ...



I cannot believe you can say this with a straight face! 
Go back and read your own OP and then let's see you complain about others immediately attacking  !
Unfuckingbelievable.


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## whitehall (Sep 16, 2013)

It's possible that there was more than one shooter. If so would the administration still characterize it as an example of "workplace violence"?


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## Edgetho (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> Black_Label said:
> 
> 
> > Edgetho said:
> ...



Because we KNEW things like this would start....

*Editor of Leftist Rag The Nation Blames Lack of Gun Control For D.C. Naval Yard Shooting *






Edge:
We here, at USMB, don't have a World Wide Network, a Multi-Billion Dollar Platform on which to shout our views at the world.

Nobody knows me on this Board.  Nobody.  My screen name is that of Beowulf's Father, who has mythically been dead for over a thousand years.

I am not charged with any responsibility to accurately and fairly report the News.  I am NOT a Journalist and I have never claimed to be one.

It is the left that uses its platform to spew their vile hatred all over our consciences.  Not the Right.

Find me an example of it.  I've already shown you two, one from CNN (David Frum, a faux Conservative, a RINO) and the other one above.

There will be many, many more from the left soon.  Probably all the way to the top


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## Edgetho (Sep 16, 2013)




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## Black_Label (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> ...from George W. Bush speechwriter and conservative, David Frum:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What a nutjob that guy is.


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## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

Edgetho said:


>


Yeah - I just posted all that, dumbass.


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## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

Black_Label said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > ...from George W. Bush speechwriter and conservative, David Frum:
> ...


Ummm...no, he's being sarcastic, and he's dead on.


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## BullKurtz (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Surfer said:
> 
> 
> > BullKurtzUSMC said:
> ...



Just a FYI...you started the name-calling not Surfer.


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## DigitalDrifter (Sep 16, 2013)

Black_Label said:


> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> > Luddly Neddite said:
> ...



Horseshit my ass, he said quote:"Bring on the nutters with their lame ass excuses"

Get your facts straight before you post next time.


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## hjmick (Sep 16, 2013)

Black_Label said:


> Edgetho said:
> 
> 
> > The left will be crushed to learn it isn't a White Guy
> ...




News flash spanker, this was politicized from the word "go."


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## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

DigitalDrifter said:


> Black_Label said:
> 
> 
> > DigitalDrifter said:
> ...


I guess you all consider yourselves 'nutters'.


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## eflatminor (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Bring on the nutters with their lame ass excuses.



You're saying the 'gun free zone' didn't work, one imposed by the US military?  How did disarming the members of the military working in that building work out?  About as well as it did at Ft Hood?  

There is no excuse for those that expect their feel good rules will be obeyed by criminals.  None.


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## DigitalDrifter (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> > Black_Label said:
> ...



Your attempt at being funny  ?

You know what he was talking about.


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## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

DigitalDrifter said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > DigitalDrifter said:
> ...


Hey, if someone calls out assholes, I don't come rushing in to declare myself one.


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## KissMy (Sep 16, 2013)

Black_Label said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> > Fox News reports 12 people shot & 6 of them dead. A shooter is dead, police seek possible 2nd shooter because 2 different type bullets found.
> ...



 Really? You are an idiot!

USA Today, CBS, Fox News and the Associated Press, citing the Navy, report "the number of dead had risen to six 6 dead, suspects sought in Navy shooting"


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## Little-Acorn (Sep 16, 2013)

Current website headline for NBC News: At least 4 dead, one gunman dead, possibly two others at large.

---------------------------------

Breaking News & Top Stories - World News, US & Local | NBC News

Washington rampage: Shooter dead after killing spree at Navy Yard

Police chief says officials are investigating reports of two additional gunmen after at least four are killed at Washington Navy Yard.

(Accompanying story)

Gunman opens fire at Navy Yard in Washington, killing at least 4

By Jim Miklaszewski, Pete Williams, Richard Esposito and Erin McClam, NBC News

A man brandishing an assault rifle, shotgun and handgun opened fire Monday inside a building at the Washington Navy Yard &#8212; killing at least four people and wounding at least seven more, including two police officers, authorities said.

SWAT officers swarmed the building, the headquarters of the Naval Sea Systems Command, and a shooter there was killed, sources told NBC News. More than two hours after the first gunfire, there were reports that tactical teams were entering a second building at the Navy Yard.

The Washington police chief said there could be as many as two other shooters at large. She said officers were on the lookout for two men, one white and one black, both in military-style uniforms.


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## DigitalDrifter (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...


(insert rolling eyes smiley here) We all know when the OP says "nutters" he's refering to pro-gun Americans.


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## bodecea (Sep 16, 2013)

DigitalDrifter said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > DigitalDrifter said:
> ...



I am a pro-gun American and I did not self-identify with the term "nutters".


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## Contumacious (Sep 16, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Another victory for our right to bear arms








.


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## The2ndAmendment (Sep 16, 2013)

Good question, no?

Stinks to high hell of false flag.

I can guarantee if a regular person like, or myself, even let off a blank in Washington DC, we' be swarmed by military grade helicopters and APC, roads, skies and sewers --- and rightfully so.

Remember what happened to the punk Jhokar Tsarneav in Boston?


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## Vandalshandle (Sep 16, 2013)

All I can say is that if someone had been there with a semi-automatic m-16 with a 100 round ammo cartridge, he would have been able to take this guy out! Of course, stray bullets would have probably taken dozens of innocent bystanders out, too, but that is the price of freedom!


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## The2ndAmendment (Sep 16, 2013)

g5000 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > The2ndAmendment said:
> ...



I can guarantee if a regular person like, or myself, even let off a blank in Washington DC, we' be swarmed by military grade helicopters and APC, roads, skies and sewers --- and rightfully so.


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## rightwinger (Sep 16, 2013)

Contumacious said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Another victory for our right to bear arms
> ...



So, Gun nuts break the laws and that is your justification for not having laws

We still have murders, is that your justification for repealing murder laws?


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## peach174 (Sep 16, 2013)

I think he forgot to put the link up so that we know what he is talking about.


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## DigitalDrifter (Sep 16, 2013)

bodecea said:


> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



Oh jesusfucking christ, what the hell is the matter with some of you? 

If you've paid any attention to the OP's politics, you should easily be able to see that when he uses the term "nutters" in this context, he's refering to us on the board who are pro-gun, pro-2nd Amendment, etc.


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## Missouri_Mike (Sep 16, 2013)

The2ndAmendment said:


> Good question, no?
> 
> Stinks to high hell of false flag.



Take all reports so far with a grain of salt.

One shooter, maybe two, possibly three. One black one white, maybe, if they exist. Dressed in military uniforms, maybe.

Need some time to sort this out. Live updates every 30 seconds lends itself to rumors and unchecked facts so let it settle down first.

Now to add my own rumor: I think maybe these other two were MP's responding but in the panic people reported them as possible shooters. Just a guess though.


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## g5000 (Sep 16, 2013)

It's a large complex with 3,000 people running around in panic.  Shouldn't be too hard for 2 people (2, not 5) to get out in the ensuing chaos.


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## Black_Label (Sep 16, 2013)

DigitalDrifter said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > DigitalDrifter said:
> ...



No, he wasn't.


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## The2ndAmendment (Sep 16, 2013)

peach174 said:


> I think he forgot to put the link up so that we know what he is talking about.



No link needed, this is common sense. There are 5+ shooters on the loose in DC. IMPOSSIBLE

I can guarantee if a regular person like, or myself, even let off a blank in Washington DC, we' be swarmed by military grade helicopters and APC, roads, skies and sewers --- and rightfully so.

I can guarantee if a regular person like, or myself, even let off a blank in Washington DC, we' be swarmed by military grade helicopters and APC, roads, skies and sewers --- and rightfully so.

I can guarantee if a regular person like, or myself, even let off a blank in Washington DC, we' be swarmed by military grade helicopters and APC, roads, skies and sewers --- and rightfully so.

I can guarantee if a regular person like, or myself, even let off a blank in Washington DC, we' be swarmed by military grade helicopters and APC, roads, skies and sewers --- and rightfully so.

I can guarantee if a regular person like, or myself, even let off a blank in Washington DC, we' be swarmed by military grade helicopters and APC, roads, skies and sewers --- and rightfully so.

I can guarantee if a regular person like, or myself, even let off a blank in Washington DC, we' be swarmed by military grade helicopters and APC, roads, skies and sewers --- and rightfully so.


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## bodecea (Sep 16, 2013)

DigitalDrifter said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > DigitalDrifter said:
> ...



I'm sorry, but I just don't see it as a clear case of talking about all pro-gun Americans as you do.   I didn't feel even the slightest urge to "own it".


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## DigitalDrifter (Sep 16, 2013)

Vandalshandle said:


> All I can say is that if someone had been there with a semi-automatic m-16 with a 100 round ammo cartridge, he would have been able to take this guy out! Of course, stray bullets would have probably taken dozens of innocent bystanders out, too, but that is the price of freedom!



Well despite your attempt at being sarcastic, I'll just say that thanks to Clinton's 1993 order, regular members of the military are not allowed to carry guns on base and therefore only the MP's have guns and only they could have stopped the shooter sooner.


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## DigitalDrifter (Sep 16, 2013)

bodecea said:


> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...



Whatever, I think everyone else on the board got it though.


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## Contumacious (Sep 16, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



So let the powers-that-be go after the lawbreakers . Let the powers that be abolish GUN FREE ZONES.

.


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## DigitalDrifter (Sep 16, 2013)

By the way, I can see why Luddly and Black Label have disappeared. Lol  !


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## The2ndAmendment (Sep 16, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> So, Gun nuts break the laws and that is your justification for not having laws
> 
> We still have murders, is that your justification for repealing murder laws?



Laws are written to bring Order among the Law-Abiding, is there was no law preventing stealing, law abiding citizens would indeed steal from each other. The majority of the people prefer to abide the law, so that may live in peace and harmony.

Laws written with the express purpose of bringing Order among those who live in Chaos (out-laws) is an exercise in frivolity.

This is the first lesson that one must learn, in order to grasp reality.


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## Mr Natural (Sep 16, 2013)

The2ndAmendment said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...



Why not try out your theory for real?

Get back to us and let us know what happened.


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## The2ndAmendment (Sep 16, 2013)

Mr Clean said:


> The2ndAmendment said:
> 
> 
> > g5000 said:
> ...



It's already been tested, did you see the 120 federal agents swarm Adam Kokesh outside their jurisdiction? And he didn't even discharge the firearm.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Washington Navy Yard shooting: Active shooter sought in Southeast D.C. | WJLA.com
> 
> Police search for active shooter on grounds of Washington Navy Yard in Southeast D.C. - The Washington Post
> 
> ...



Once again Luddly jumps to unsubstantiated positions simply because he hears the word gun.


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## rightwinger (Sep 16, 2013)

The2ndAmendment said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > So, Gun nuts break the laws and that is your justification for not having laws
> ...



Makes absolutely no sense


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## Lovebears65 (Sep 16, 2013)

The2ndAmendment said:


> » Breaking: Four Dead In Mass Shooting at Navy Yard; Two Shooters Apprehended Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!



Umm I wouldnt consider this a gun free zone. Plenty of people on bases have guns...Believe me I have lived on many .. we had guns..


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## The2ndAmendment (Sep 16, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> The2ndAmendment said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Of course it makes no sense to you, it's the foundation of human reality, that some people are inherently evil and malicious, which runs contrary to the Progressive ideology.

Many religious texts (Torah, Bible, Koran) embrace this idea constantly, even the beginning of Genesis is about God bringing Order from Chaos; and much of the Bible is about those who are not righteous (or at least try to be rightoues as much as possible), and fall back into Chaos.

Then three are the legal and philosophical texts of Plato and many others that discuss the same topic (have you ever read The Republic?).


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## bodecea (Sep 16, 2013)

DigitalDrifter said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > DigitalDrifter said:
> ...



You speak for everyone on the board?  I would not presume to.


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## DigitalDrifter (Sep 16, 2013)

bodecea said:


> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...



Waste of time to argue with you, you're not a conservative so you don't get it.


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## Black_Label (Sep 16, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > DigitalDrifter said:
> ...



You right wing nutjobs are insane


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## Contumacious (Sep 16, 2013)

Lovebears65 said:


> The2ndAmendment said:
> 
> 
> > » Breaking: Four Dead In Mass Shooting at Navy Yard; Two Shooters Apprehended Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!
> ...



WUT?

I was staitoned in Fort Gordon, Ga.

Firearms were  locked up in the armory . MP's were the only ones allowed to carry them. Neither members of the military nor civilians could bring guns to the base.

The VA Hospitals will not even allow guns into the properties

So what the fuck are you talking about.

.


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## Mr Natural (Sep 16, 2013)

The2ndAmendment said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > The2ndAmendment said:
> ...



You said regular person.  Adam Kokesh is a well known lunatic, so he had eyes on him.

You need to get yourself down to DC and test out your theory to see if it's valid or just crazy talk.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2013)

*Trolling posts have been cleaned from this thread - please try to remember to include some content related to the topic...*


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## Harry Dresden (Sep 16, 2013)

Surfer said:


> I don't believe in killing innocent children. That would be you godless liberals who believe in killing children before/during birth and any time after. Maggots.


i was quoting Dudley not you....he enjoys stories were little kids get killed by gunfire.....this way he can do one of his Anti-Gun threads....and try to act like he gives a shit about the kid being killed....


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## Harry Dresden (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Surfer said:
> 
> 
> > BullKurtzUSMC said:
> ...



yea im a right wing troll.....why?.... because i think you are a low life piece of shit who enjoys politicizing stories about little kids being shot so you can do one of your anti gun threads.....if that makes me a right wing troll then so be it....i am also a right wing troll who has been on the lefts side in quite a few threads around here.....so yea i guess i am a "rw'er".....your problem dipshit is ANYONE who does not meet your criteria is a "rw'er" anti-american.....and that is an awful lot of people.....now prove me wrong or go back to the home and clean yourself up....


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

eflatminor said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Bring on the nutters with their lame ass excuses.
> ...



There are both military AND private security on that base. 

They carry guns.


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## Harry Dresden (Sep 16, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Black_Label said:
> ...



he forgot.....thats what happens when you are in your 80's.....


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

DigitalDrifter said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > DigitalDrifter said:
> ...



I wish conservatives would post on this board. 

eh -- I guess there might be a few but its pretty hard to find them.


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## Edgetho (Sep 16, 2013)

Contumacious said:


> Lovebears65 said:
> 
> 
> > The2ndAmendment said:
> ...



You could have them in your Housing Quarters.

I was married and an E5 at Fort Devens and lived in a Military-Assigned House.  A nice one, too.

A lot of people had guns in their Housing.

A lot of people had guns in their cars.

But yeah, the actual Military issue weapons were kept under lock and key in the CONUS.


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## Harry Dresden (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Crackerjaxon said:
> 
> 
> > Luddly Neddite said:
> ...



yea thats why everyone of your anti gun threads prove that.....maybe you should learn to express yourself different.....and people would not have that opinion of you....


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Trash is exactly the right word and they'll have several pages of garbage before noon.
> ...



Is there some reason why I should not have started a thread about a mass shooting?

Or are you just pissed because I called it what it is - At least one nutter with a gun. 
And, as I rightly called it - other nutters have lined up with pages and pages of garbage.


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## peach174 (Sep 16, 2013)

The2ndAmendment said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> > I think he forgot to put the link up so that we know what he is talking about.
> ...




There are 2 shooters that they are looking for, not 5.
Where are you getting information that it's 5?
This is just reports and maybe there really are no other shooters. Chances are pretty good that it is two more people. It's pretty easy to get into the base when you are wearing military style uniforms.
They got the one and maybe that is the only one.
Lanier said that security *believed *that another two gunmen were involved.
Just because they believe it does not make it correct. It is still on going and facts always come later.
Washington US Navy Yard Shooting: Police Launch Manhunt for Two More Suspects [VIDEO] - IBTimes UK


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Harry Dresden said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjaxon said:
> ...



Liar.


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## RandallFlagg (Sep 16, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




Your stupidity continues to grow. A gun is a tool. Nothing more and nothing less. Should we take wrenches away from mechanics because they have, on occasion, beaten customers to death with a wrench?

If there were no guns, they would have used explosives. If there were no explosives they would have used rocks. If rocks were outlawed they would have used spears. 

Stop  blaming the damned tool and begin blaming the criminal, will you?


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## Contumacious (Sep 16, 2013)

Edgetho said:


> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> > Lovebears65 said:
> ...



*End Clinton-era military base gun ban*

*Among President Clintons first acts upon taking office in 1993 was to disarm U.S. soldiers on military bases. In March 1993, the Army imposed regulations forbidding military personnel from carrying their personal firearms and making it almost impossible for commanders to issue firearms to soldiers in the U.S. for personal protection.* For the most part, only military police regularly carry firearms on base, and their presence is stretched thin by high demand for MPs in war zones."

.


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## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

DigitalDrifter said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > DigitalDrifter said:
> ...


I'm pro-gun, pro-2nd.

That doesn't mean I believe citizens should have military weaponry.


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## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

The2ndAmendment said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> > I think he forgot to put the link up so that we know what he is talking about.
> ...




What do your bowel movements have to do with it?

If you meant normal, then FAIL.  You're a nutter.


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## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)




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## Harry Dresden (Sep 16, 2013)

DigitalDrifter said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Surfer said:
> ...



or go read any of his other anti-gun threads....and then he says he is not for getting rid of guns....his threads sure dont give one that impression....


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## KissMy (Sep 16, 2013)

Contumacious said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Another victory for our right to bear arms
> ...



^^^ This ^^^


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...



I'm afraid that's WAY too complicated for some posters to understand.


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## Harry Dresden (Sep 16, 2013)

BullKurtzUSMC said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Surfer said:
> ...



he forgot.....when you are in your 80's....things happen....


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## Contumacious (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...



You a socialist scumbag .

I do not give a shit whether or not you approve of "military weaponry" , whatever that means.

.


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## eflatminor (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> > Luddly Neddite said:
> ...



And how'd that work out?  Thousands of disarmed people that can't defend themselves flee for their lives or cower in the a gun free zone corner while they're murdered.  Once again, the criminals didn't care about your rules and people died.  Their blood is on the hands of those that support laws that give an edge to crazies by disarming law abiding citizens.  Shame on you.


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## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

DigitalDrifter said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > DigitalDrifter said:
> ...



Yes, Bodecea - you obviously do not have the ideology to decipher their grunts, drools, and burps.


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## Edgetho (Sep 16, 2013)

eflatminor said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > eflatminor said:
> ...



You can't shame a dimocrap.  Or a whore.

Like there's a difference


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Edgetho said:


> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> > Lovebears65 said:
> ...



Things are a little more strict now. You can have personal weapons in off base housing, but not on the base proper.  You cannot even have them in your POV on base. If you cannot store your weapon off base you have to store them in the armory or leave them at the gate.


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## RandallFlagg (Sep 16, 2013)

Contumacious said:


> Edgetho said:
> 
> 
> > Contumacious said:
> ...



You're (again) full of crap. Weapons have NEVER been allowed anywhere on a military installation in anything other than (a) the unit Armory - the SM could check his personal weapon out during regular hours (for hunting or range firing) but had to return it to the Armory or (b) the weapon could be in post housing AFTER have been registered at the MP office. The weapon could be transported in a POV as long as it was unloaded and in plain view. These regulations are STILL in effect.

That was SOP from the time I joined the Army in 1965 and has been in effect since that time. I carried a weapon in a shoulder rig from 1968 through 1987. Everday, 7 days a week, 365 days a year - because it was my job.

I flew on military aircraft, civilian aircraft and never once (upon identifying myself) had to relinquish my weapon.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...



Why not?


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Harry Dresden said:


> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> > Luddly Neddite said:
> ...



If the killer(s?) had used knives, I would have posted that people had been killed/wounded by knives. 

Post even one post of mine that says I'm anti gun. You can't because you're a liar.

But, hey, don't let that stop you from posting more lies.


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## rightwinger (Sep 16, 2013)

So we just had another 12 Americans killed in senseless gun violence

Who cares? Bury them, tell everyone how sorry we are, put the flags at half staff and go about your business

We are not going to do a fucking thing about it anyway. It is the price we pay for our second amendment rights

Don't you all feel safe?


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## IlarMeilyr (Sep 16, 2013)

The gubmint is already denying that it is terrorist activity.

This raises the prospect that it is a terrorist incident.


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## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

Edgetho said:


> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> > Lovebears65 said:
> ...



What was the reasoning?  That U.S. military personnel could not be trusted?  That officers were afraid of fragging?

If you cannot trust a fellow Marine, who can you trust?


----------



## IlarMeilyr (Sep 16, 2013)

Notice how all the usual suspect lolberals IMMEDIATELY try to politicize the tragedy as an excuse to piss on the Constitution?


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## KissMy (Sep 16, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Don't you all feel safe?



I absolutely feel safe unless I happen to venture into a "Gun Free Area".


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## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

RandallFlagg said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Contumacious said:
> ...


AR-15s have only one purpose, one function.

Your wrench analogy is ignorant.


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## Edgetho (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > DigitalDrifter said:
> ...



Maybe you're not anti-gun.  But you're a fervent supporter of the scumbags who are.


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

eflatminor said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > eflatminor said:
> ...



And yet, the rw nutters want someone on grade school campuses armed so they can take out the shooter.

Who is at the other end of the campus. 
Or off that day.

Make up your "minds", fools. 

Or, how about you just post signs: "Mass shooters, Enter Here".

Yeah, that sounds like something you tools would come up with.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > DigitalDrifter said:
> ...



Explain this thread where the complaint was about someone with a pistol.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/312268-another-baby-killed-with-a-gun.html

Or this one where you complained about legal gun owners conducting a peaceful protest.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/311904-the-gun-nutters-are-losing-control.html


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## Edgetho (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> RandallFlagg said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



How about Pressure Cookers?


----------



## Harry Dresden (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> > Black_Label said:
> ...



Dudly considers ANYONE who has a different opinion then he does not only a "nutter".....but Anti-American.....and it pissed me off when he was referring to a few posters here who are not only Vets but a couple had fought in one of our wars as "Traitors" in one of his wonderful tolerant threads.....the guys a jerk and should be treated like one....


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> RandallFlagg said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Get ready.

Next will come the "let's ban cars" whines.


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## Edgetho (Sep 16, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



Are you trying to say that a dimocrap is a lying dirtbag?

shocking


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

RandallFlagg said:


> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> > Edgetho said:
> ...



I was allowed to bring a weapon onto my ship and store it in the small arms locker. I didn't need to clear it with the base first, so I have no idea what planet you were on when you served.


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## martybegan (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> RandallFlagg said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Yes, to send a projecticle, accelerated via the detonative combustion of a smokless gunpoweder down a barrel in the direction of the barrel's opening.


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## DigitalDrifter (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Luddly Neddite said:
> ...



There it is right there, the admission that you politicized it from the start.

Not that we needed you to admit it, since your words were there for everyone to read.


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## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> So we just had another 12 Americans killed in senseless gun violence
> 
> Who cares? Bury them, tell everyone how sorry we are, put the flags at half staff and go about your business
> 
> ...


Since the August 21 chemical weapons attack in Syria that killed 1400, there have been over 1800 gun deaths in the U.S.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > DigitalDrifter said:
> ...



Have you ever started a thread when someone was killed by a knife? Need some help?

Man killed, woman seriously hurt in random Seattle stabbing | Local News | The Seattle Times


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## KissMy (Sep 16, 2013)

Contumacious said:


>



Gun free zone death traps brought to you courtesy of loony gun grabbing nutters.


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



Nothing to explain. 

Right now, there are at least 12 families who are shattered, broken. Their family member left for work this morning and now, through no fault of their own, they're dead.

How long are we going to allow a few NUTTERS to control our entire society?

The only answer the nutters have to that question is "more guns".


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## DigitalDrifter (Sep 16, 2013)

Harry Dresden said:


> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> > Luddly Neddite said:
> ...



Exactly.


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## martybegan (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > So we just had another 12 Americans killed in senseless gun violence
> ...



Link please or are you just basing it on extrapolating the common yearly gun death # (including sucide) and trying to look smart?


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

KissMy said:


> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



For the gazillionth time, there were both military and civilian guards there this morning. 

Just as there would be at schools if you nutters had your way.

Why do you say it would work at schools even though there are numerous examples of when it did not work?

Make up your "minds".


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> RandallFlagg said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Target practice? That is the only thing I have ever used an AR-15 for.


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

DigitalDrifter said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > DigitalDrifter said:
> ...



As usual, not one of you fools has the balls to actually address the issue.


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## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

Edgetho said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > RandallFlagg said:
> ...


I'm in favor of them.  You can cook a pot roast in 1/4 of the time.


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > RandallFlagg said:
> ...



That's not what this guy used it for this morning. 

Not what it has been used for - over and over - in mass shootings. 

Or, do you nutters consider human beings to be just "target practice"?


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## Harry Dresden (Sep 16, 2013)

bodecea said:


> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



you dont have to....Dudley will do that for you.....or maybe not....he identifies you as a Liberal....you get a pass.....


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## DigitalDrifter (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> > Harry Dresden said:
> ...



And as usual you derailed your own thread by politicizing it from the start.


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## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

martybegan said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


LINK


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Luddly Neddite said:
> ...



And, unless these families support your agenda, you will ignore them, just like you ignored the Mattiolis after Newtown. That makes you a scumbag.


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## Harry Dresden (Sep 16, 2013)

DigitalDrifter said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > DigitalDrifter said:
> ...



just the ones he perceives as..."rw's".....all others it dont matter....


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## martybegan (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



Doesnt work, try text.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



I am not the idiot that claimed it only has one purpose, am I?


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## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

IlarMeilyr said:


> *Notice how all the usual suspect lolberals *IMMEDIATELY try to politicize the tragedy as an excuse to piss on the Constitution?



G.W. Bush's speechwriter is a Liberal?  


http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...y-yard-shoots-at-least-7-a-4.html#post7840663


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## Contumacious (Sep 16, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Edgetho said:
> 
> 
> > Contumacious said:
> ...



My point precisely








That regulation did not stop him from bringing a firearm into the base proper. The powers-that-be DISARMED the GI's for Major Hasan's convenience.







.


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## Edgetho (Sep 16, 2013)

RandallFlagg said:


> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> > Edgetho said:
> ...



That depended on the Base on which you were stationed, what Branch you were in and what Unit you were in.

Until the rapist banned the practice.

I was never on a Base that allowed anyone at anytime to carry weapons any place they wanted.

But we used to draw our Weapons from the Armory and then drive our POVs (personal owned vehicles) to the gun range to re qualify.

I used to pull Guard Duty or whatever it was called, when they'd issue me a shotgun to guard Prisoners (American Soldiers being held for Court Martial or discharge) during the day and I'd just take the shotgun back to the Barracks with me.

the rapist changed all that.

I had a Browning Hi Power in my room in my quarters,  The SGM knew about it and didn't care.  In fact, I ended up selling it to him (never did like the 9mm.  Useless AFAIC)

So you're incorrect.

Maybe in your Branch of Service, you're right.  For the time.  But when I was in, it just wasn't a big deal.  Yeah, our full-auto M-16s, Mortars and M60s and LAWs and Ricky Rifles were kept locked up but a lot of .45s came up missing a lot of times.

I even remember carrying a .45 around on my Pistol Belt every now and then.  Don't remember why, I just remember it.

I suspect it depended a lot on who the Base Commander was, too.

I would imagine that bases like Fort Belvoir or Fort Meade or Fort Benjamin Harrison might have different rules than places like Fort Bragg and Fort Benning.

Combat Units v. REMFs and all.

Or maybe you were in the Corps or the Air Force or the Navy.  I can't talk about what they might or might not allow because I don't know.  And don't care.

They're just support troops for the Army anyway


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## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

martybegan said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > martybegan said:
> ...


It was stated during the panel discussion Friday night on Real Time.

People don't generally make blatantly false statements on national TV when they know they are a target for certain political factions.  That would lead to a loss of credibility.


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## Edgetho (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Luddly Neddite said:
> ...



Deflect much?


----------



## martybegan (Sep 16, 2013)

synthaholic said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > synthaholic said:
> ...



lol thats your definition of a source!!!!


Bwahahaahahaha...


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## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

martybegan said:


> synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > martybegan said:
> ...


What are you prepared to do, if I locate the source of his assertion?


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## Harry Dresden (Sep 16, 2013)

Black_Label said:


> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...



yes he was.....his history here kinda backs that up.....


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## TemplarKormac (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Washington Navy Yard shooting: Active shooter sought in Southeast D.C. | WJLA.com
> 
> Police search for active shooter on grounds of Washington Navy Yard in Southeast D.C. - The Washington Post
> 
> ...



Bring on  [MENTION=32558]Luddly Neddite[/MENTION]: the only idiot to try and score political points out of a tragedy. There are 12 people now dead and two more assailants on the run, you still want to turn this into politics?


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## koshergrl (Sep 16, 2013)

Has Luddly commented yet on the race of the shooters?

Because every time a white guy kills someone, it's cuz he's white.


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## Kondor3 (Sep 16, 2013)

Edgetho said:


> "..._our full-auto M-16s, Mortars and M60s and LAWs and Ricky Rifles were kept locked up_..."


Which is all well-and-good, unless you're in S2, or have a buddy in S2.



> "..._Combat Units v. REMFs_..."



Truth - even tho I was a REMF myself.



> "..._They're just support troops for the Army anyway_..."



Disagree about The Corps, but, other than that, yeah... cold, but not too far off the mark.


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## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> Edgetho said:
> 
> 
> > Contumacious said:
> ...


Anyone gonna take a shot at this? (pun intended)


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## Edgetho (Sep 16, 2013)

Kondor3 said:


> Edgetho said:
> 
> 
> > "..._our full-auto M-16s, Mortars and M60s and LAWs and Ricky Rifles were kept locked up_..."
> ...



J/K about the support troops thingie.  



S2?  

I was in S2 for a while.  In a weird capacity.  Nothing hush-hush, just kinda wondering, "WTF am I doing here??"

I still don't get it


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

martybegan said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > martybegan said:
> ...



Worked okay for me but I would advise you not to click on it cuz you're not gonna like it. 

The link is factual and since you won't like the FACTS, you'll just attack the source or the poster. Why not save yourself some time and just go straight to the brainless attacks.


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## boedicca (Sep 16, 2013)

So our Total Surveillance Apparatus that's been justified to prevent terrorism and mass shooting fails once again.

Giving up a lot of liberty for security is a sham.


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## Edgetho (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Edgetho said:
> ...



A full-auto M-16 or M-4 is worth a LOT of money.  A lot of money.  Thousands of dollars.

I hear you can get even more for a B-52 but I think they'd be hard to smuggle off base

They be coming up missing....  "I swear to God, Sarge!!  It was here last night..."


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## Harry Dresden (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > Luddly Neddite said:
> ...



so lets see you prove it.....shall we go to one of your threads where a little kid got killed and see what you have to say?.....


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> > Contumacious said:
> ...



Still no one with the courage to address this.


----------



## IlarMeilyr (Sep 16, 2013)

The reason the 2nd amendment exists -- the very reason it was put into the bill of Rights -- has, let's be real, not a fucking thing to do with going hunting.

It was not a pro-venison Amendment.  It was not a hunter's rights Amendment.

The REASON the 2d Amendment was demanded, as well as what it was intended to accomplish, was very much related to our fear of tyranny.  



> The Federalist Papers, No. 28: Alexander Hamilton expressed that when a government betrays the people by amassing too much power and becoming tyrannical, the people have no choice but to exercise their original right of self-defense &#8212; to fight the government.
> 
> The Federalist Papers, No. 29: Alexander Hamilton explained that an armed citizenry was the best and only real defense against a standing army becoming large and oppressive.
> 
> The Federalist Papers, No. 46: James Madison contended that ultimate authority resides in the people, and that if the federal government got too powerful and overstepped its authority, then the people would develop plans of resistance and resort to arms.


 -- excerpted from 
The Six Things Americans Should Know About the Second Amendment, by Richard W. Stevens



> The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair. The usurpers, clothed with the forms of legal authority, can too often crush the opposition in embryo.


-- Hamilton in Federalist Paper 28:  Alexander Hamilton, Federalist Paper #28 - On the Power of the People to Keep Government in Check - The Federalist Papers

This ^ kind of thinking offends Vlady Putin. It is a model of American Exceptionalism.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



That was funny considering how often people post the fact that various people from both sides have lied on national TV.


----------



## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Harry Dresden said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Harry Dresden said:
> ...



I was just looking at this
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_Q0EFD6uH...p9BJau5i0/s1600/1obama+50+51+which+is+itr.jpg

and thinking that some people really need to get their own life.

I'd say the same is true of you.

But, hey - go for it.

I'm leaving for a while though and I wouldn't want you to panic.


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## martybegan (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



This coming from the pussy with his rep turned off.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Edgetho said:
> ...



It was Clinton, it didn't have to make sense because it was about gun control.


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## Harry Dresden (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...



thats not what DD is saying Synth.....Dudly "claims" he is ok with people owning guns.....but yet his threads about them give me and many other people here the impression he is not what he says.....so in an earlier post here i say maybe he should learn to express his thoughts better to not give one that impression.....what is his response?.....he calls me a liar....so fuck him.....im sure if someone here that the Jerk perceives to be a lefty would have said that.....he would have said....you are right....maybe i should say things differently....


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Edgetho said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



I once ordered a replacement radio and got a jeep, they made me send it back. There was scuttlebut that a QM did something similar and drove it home.


----------



## Edgetho (Sep 16, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > martybegan said:
> ...



The only thing I want to watch Bill Maher do is suffer.

He is the lyingest piece of shit on TV and the reason I cancelled HBO.

No way I'd give that piece of shit even one hit on his despicable website or youtube or anything else he's connected to.

I'd give Josef Stalin more credit for truthfulness than Bill Maher


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

martybegan said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > martybegan said:
> ...



He used to neg rep anyone who disagreed with him, until he forgot how to tell time. I bet it galls him that his rep is off.


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## Katzndogz (Sep 16, 2013)

A disaster for liberals.  A gun free zone in a gun free city and they couldn't even pin it on a white guy.


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## Edgetho (Sep 16, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Edgetho said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



I had my own personal Jeep for a couple Months

Some MP left it sitting somewhere and it came up missing.

All you gotta do is (when I was in) was change the stenciled lettering on those little U-shaped dealios on the rear bumpers and on the front bumper.

Heard they were closing in on me and traded it to a buddy for a Star Sapphire ring.

Wish I still had that ring.


----------



## Harry Dresden (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > DigitalDrifter said:
> ...



do you have a fucking brain in your head?....i have not said you said that.....i have been saying YOU IMPLY THAT by what you say in your fucking threads.....and when i even said to you maybe you should express yourself different....you still act like the Dick you are.......


----------



## Asclepias (Sep 16, 2013)

Katzndogz said:


> A disaster for liberals.  A gun free zone in a gun free city and they couldn't even pin it on a white guy.



One of the guys they are looking for is white.  Seems this event is interracial. This is a disaster for rw's and the members of stormfront.


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Harry Dresden said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > DigitalDrifter said:
> ...




IMPRESSION???

LOL

I'll stick around for a while just to watch you wiggle. 

I've been very clear that I believe there is a place for guns and that place is not in every single pocket in the US.

You can tell any lie you want and you can keep following me from thread to thread but nothing will change. 

Prove your idiotic lying blathering or shut up. 
Or, keep right on lying. 

Either way, makes no difference to me.


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## bianco (Sep 16, 2013)

Where was the 'absolute security'?
How did he get into the HQ with a gun?


----------



## Spoonman (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> RandallFlagg said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


really? What is that purpose?  I happen to own two of them.  Have they been used for that purpose?


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Edgetho said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



See?

Like I said, "some" of you wouldn't like the actual FACTS so you have no choice but to attack the source and/or the poster. 

And, of course you canx HBO  because they carry Maher. Sure you did.


----------



## Claudette (Sep 16, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > redfish said:
> ...



Yup. NO one on a military base is armed except for the MP's or AP's. No one carries a gun around a military base. 

Gotta wonder how this dude got in??


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Asclepias said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > A disaster for liberals.  A gun free zone in a gun free city and they couldn't even pin it on a white guy.
> ...



And there were both military AND civilian ARMED security. 

But, don't confuse him/her/it with FACTS.


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## Spoonman (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...



fortunately, james madison, the author of the 2nd amendment believed citizens should have the same weapons as the military.  

when you found your own country, you can make your own rules too.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



I gave you a link to a random killing with multiple victims that involved knives, did you start a thread?


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## Harry Dresden (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> > Harry Dresden said:
> ...



you know dam well we have.....in many of your threads.....you are the one that is so fucked up that you dont have even have enough integrity to maybe admit that what you say in your threads about gun violence is kinda....anti-gun.....your balls should be hanging around your knees....maybe if you wore a supporter you will feel like you actually have a set again and will admit what is being said about your threads on guns....just might have some truth to them....


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## kwc57 (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



Bill Maher makes blatantly false statements on national TV on a weekly basis.......but then he only has credibility with the low information sheeple, soooo.......


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Spoonman said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > DigitalDrifter said:
> ...



Really?

Why doesn't it state that?


----------



## Katzndogz (Sep 16, 2013)

Asclepias said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > A disaster for liberals.  A gun free zone in a gun free city and they couldn't even pin it on a white guy.
> ...



The white guy has already been eliminated as a suspect.  Seems this event is as interracial as the beltway sniper.


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## boedicca (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...




Where does it say they shouldn't?


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## Asclepias (Sep 16, 2013)

No civilian should own a gun capable of firing automatically. If you have one you should be trained and certified in its use. Civilians also should not have access to large volume magazines.


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## Harry Dresden (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > Luddly Neddite said:
> ...



see ya Dudley.....run from your shit like you always do....dont worry....im not surprised....


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Harry Dresden said:
> ...



Oh, sorry. I didn't realize there was also a mass killing today involving knives and that you are unable to post a new thread.


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## Asclepias (Sep 16, 2013)

Katzndogz said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



That must of had you concerned for a minute.


----------



## Harry Dresden (Sep 16, 2013)

Edgetho said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



you cancelled HBO because of one 1/2 hour show?........


----------



## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

kwc57 said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > martybegan said:
> ...



He often criticizes the president and the D congress. 

Too bad there's no way for you to know that because you get your info from muslim fux, dredge, lusbo....


----------



## boedicca (Sep 16, 2013)

Asclepias said:


> No civilian should own a gun capable of firing automatically. If you have one you should be trained and certified in its use. Civilians also should not have access to large volume magazines.





Why?


----------



## Asclepias (Sep 16, 2013)

boedicca said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > No civilian should own a gun capable of firing automatically. If you have one you should be trained and certified in its use. Civilians also should not have access to large volume magazines.
> ...




Because they are not trained in their use and may shoot their eye out along with killing others.


----------



## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> Has Luddly commented yet on the race of the shooters?
> 
> Because every time a white guy kills someone, it's cuz he's white.



Actually, a racist rw cockroach started in immediately about the guy being black. Another racist rw cockroach helped spread even more hate. 

And now, I'm sure other racist cockroaches will join in.

(two other possible shooters are white)


----------



## Harry Dresden (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...


sure it does....thats why you are still here.....*

I've been very clear that I believe there is a place for guns and that place is not in every single pocket in the US.
*

no you havent dumbass.....otherwise i dont think we would be having this discussion....i will say it again......what you post does not back that up......


----------



## boedicca (Sep 16, 2013)

Asclepias said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...




Nonsense.   Many states have training requirements for a gun license.   If lack of expertise is your reason, it doesn't hold water.


----------



## Contumacious (Sep 16, 2013)

Contumacious said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Edgetho said:
> ...


----------



## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

boedicca said:


> So our Total Surveillance Apparatus that's been justified to prevent terrorism and mass shooting fails once again.
> 
> Giving up a lot of liberty for security is a sham.



shhhh ... There are a lot of Bush/Cheney fans here this morning. Don't wanna hurt their little feelings, do you?


----------



## Spoonman (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



Yes it does, by placing no limitations on what a citizen can own. and yes he did in his explaination of the 2nd amendment in the federalist papers.   

now if libs took the time to research the actual intentions of the authors of the bill of rights instead of constantly trying to apply their own interpretations based on their own personal agendas, we'd have far fewer issues


----------



## Politico (Sep 16, 2013)

Wow you guys just parrot everything you hear doncha. Seriously though jeez. Eight hours later and still no clear info on what happened.


----------



## Spoonman (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > So our Total Surveillance Apparatus that's been justified to prevent terrorism and mass shooting fails once again.
> ...



now if only obama hadn't extended the patriot act and given it more teeth in the process you might be on to something there


----------



## Asclepias (Sep 16, 2013)

boedicca said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



I was unaware states had licensing for automatic weapons since it is illegal to own one.  Are you sure about this?  Please post a link.


----------



## Harry Dresden (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Luddly Neddite said:
> ...



hey i thought you said you had to take off?.....or does that just mean.....i wont answer the accusations against me?....because.....i cant.....


----------



## koshergrl (Sep 16, 2013)

Well we know cbs tried to pin it on a naval officer, then had to retract:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media...act-....navy-yard-shooter-reports-172737.html


----------



## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

boedicca said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



yeah ... And remember, the nutters were training those people to stand guard at schools. Never mind that they were shooting them selves and each other with hand guns and that gun instructors were accidentally firing their guns and gun sellers at gun shows were shooting off their weapons by accident.

Also, ignore that career criminal Arpaio wanted to put child molesters on duty at schools. Did he get away with that?

The important thing to remember is that having someone armed and on the premises would save lives - Right?

Even though there were TRAINED armed guards, both military and civilian at that base this morning as well as at many of the other sites that have suffered a mass shooting.


----------



## Spoonman (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



i wonder if a driving instructor has ever been involved in a car accident


----------



## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Harry Dresden said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



Golly gee, Harry, you must have accidentally missed several of my posts. 

Like where I said I was staying and where I answered your post. 

Keep lying about me and keep following me from thread to thread. Really. Its okay. 

And, I'll go back to ignoring you. 

That's what seems to work the best for you and I - you lie and I ignore it. 

Have a nice day.


----------



## boedicca (Sep 16, 2013)

Asclepias said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...




Your reasoning ability isn't very good. You object to people being able to own automatic weapons because they aren't trained to use them.  Learning to use a weapon is an acquired skill.  Our government trains thousand and thousands to do so.  If they can do it, so can private organizations which train people on the safe use of weapons.


----------



## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Spoonman said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



When the trainee was driving?

Doesn't matter. 

According to some, that would mean we should ban drivers, cars and driving instructors. 

Right?


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

Edgetho said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...




So, it's your contention that U.S. military personnel are inclined to be thieves?

All that noise about honor is just a bunch of crap?


I'm wondering if you will get any pushback from the ex-military Right-Wingers here.  I doubt it.


----------



## Spoonman (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> > Luddly Neddite said:
> ...



if we followed liberal logic on guns,  yes it would.


----------



## koshergrl (Sep 16, 2013)

Liberal logic dictates that gun control prevents mass shootings.

Which of course is shown to be incorrect on a regular basis. There's a reason mass murderers target places with strict gun control. Public schools, D.C., Virginia Tech, movie theaters with big "no guns!' signs.


----------



## Kondor3 (Sep 16, 2013)

*Aaron Alexis, 34, of Fort Worth, Texas, a military contractor, identified as the dead shooter...
*
Aaron Alexis Identified As Alleged Navy Yard Shooter


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

Edgetho said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...


Yet, you won't be able to point to any of his supposed lies.


Hack.


----------



## Edgetho (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> Edgetho said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



You're just a little ball of hate, aren't you?

There's always the possibility that someone can be tempted by circumstances.


----------



## Asclepias (Sep 16, 2013)

boedicca said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



Not if the government says no they cant.  I'm serious.  Are there some states that allow you have automatic weapons after you receive training?


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

Spoonman said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > RandallFlagg said:
> ...


OK, two purposes.  I forgot about "as a substitute for your lack of manhood"


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Crackerjaxon said:
> 
> 
> > Luddly Neddite said:
> ...



There you go lying again. Do you get paid for every lie you tell?


----------



## Harry Dresden (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > Luddly Neddite said:
> ...



you sound like Poet now....im ignoring you but yet i just keep on replying to you....


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

boedicca said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Spoonman said:
> ...


In light of this, all drug laws are un-Constitutional.


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjaxon said:
> ...


You claim to be military:  Do you agree with Edgetho that military personnel are inclined to steal?


----------



## KissMy (Sep 16, 2013)

Making yourself a target & having the government disarm you & plant you in a gun free base is a very good reason to never join the US military.


----------



## RoadVirus (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Washington Navy Yard shooting: Active shooter sought in Southeast D.C. | WJLA.com
> 
> Police search for active shooter on grounds of Washington Navy Yard in Southeast D.C. - The Washington Post
> 
> ...



And once again, a Libturd has to make it about guns instead of motive for the attack


----------



## Harry Dresden (Sep 16, 2013)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Crackerjaxon said:
> ...



see?.....here is someone else who doesnt seem to think your posts are what you say they are......man up Dudley....just admit that maybe your threads about guns just might give many the impression that what you say in your threads does not back up what you claim you believe.....lets see if you actually have the integrity you claim the "rw's" dont have....


----------



## kwc57 (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



Puddly Pillowbite, I didn't say I don't/haven't watched his show.  That's how I know he makes blatantly false statements on national TV on a weekly basis.  Unlike you, I get my information from a wide variety of sources....and they aren't Fox or MSNBC.  Try Real Clear Politics some time where they post some of the best opinion and analysis from both sides.  I doubt you could bring yourself to try it since you like your thinking spoonfed to you, but do try.


----------



## bodecea (Sep 16, 2013)

DigitalDrifter said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > DigitalDrifter said:
> ...



Why would being a conservative help?   The paranoia?


----------



## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



Instead of gun buy-backs, maybe the cops should offer Viagra in trade for weapons.


----------



## Luddly Neddite (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Luddly Neddite said:
> ...



Apparently, the fact that it clearly states "militia" actually means "civilians". 

Obviously, our language has changed quite a lot in a relatively short period of time.


----------



## Asclepias (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



Wait until you find out that militia was just another word for slave patrols and the only reason the 2nd amendment is a state right instead of an federal right is because the southerners forced this in order to make sure they had the right to kill slaves in the event of an uprising.


----------



## DigitalDrifter (Sep 16, 2013)

Maybe Obama will make a speech and say that Aaron Alexis could be his brother.


----------



## skye (Sep 16, 2013)

13 dead.....


----------



## DigitalDrifter (Sep 16, 2013)

RoadVirus said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Washington Navy Yard shooting: Active shooter sought in Southeast D.C. | WJLA.com
> ...



He made it political before the blood even dried.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Sep 16, 2013)

Liberals have a bad way of being insensitive in times of tragedy. Boston, Fort Hood, Tuscon, Aurora, Sandy Hook, Washington D.C. ... they have literally no shame about them.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Sep 16, 2013)

But since Luddly wants this to be political, I'll destroy his gun control argument in one post. One.


----------



## squeeze berry (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Surfer said:
> 
> 
> > How much do you want to bet the mass-murderer is black or Muslim or both?
> ...



you are wrong again lugnuts


----------



## waltky (Sep 16, 2013)

Another mass shooting, this time in the capitol...

*13 dead in Navy Yard shooting; 1 suspect dead, 1 sought*
_16 Sept.`13  WASHINGTON  At least 13 people died Monday during a shooting at the Washington Navy Yard, officials said. One gunman died in the shooting, and police are seeking another possible shooter._


> The suspected gunman was identified by the FBI as Aaron Alexis, a 34-year-old civilian contractor from Queens, New York, who most recently resided in Fort Worth, Texas.  The Navy said Alexis was a full-time reservist from 2007 to 2011. He left the Navy on Jan. 31, 2011, as a petty officer 3rd class and had been working for the fleet logistics support squadron No. 46 in Fort Worth.  Alexis was arrested in Fort Worth in 2010 for discharging a firearm in city limits, police records show. Charges were never filed.
> 
> The Navy Yard was placed on lockdown after shots were fired inside a building on the base, the U.S. Navy said. A Metro police officer and naval base officer were among those injured in the shooting, according to the D.C. Metro Police.  Washington Mayor Vincent Gray said Alexis was shot during an exchange with the Metro Police officer.  "As far as we know, it's an isolated incident," Gray said. "We have no known motive at this stage."  The mayor said there was "no reason at this stage" to believe it was terrorism, but would not rule it out.
> 
> ...



See also:

*Police: 2 more possible suspects at Navy Yard*
_16 Sept.`13  WASHINGTON (AP)  At least one gunman opened fire inside a building at the Washington Navy Yard on Monday morning, and officials said six people were killed and at least four were wounded, including a law enforcement officer._


> Police were looking for two other potential gunmen wearing military-style uniforms, including one who had on a beret, chief Cathy Lanier said.  Authorities have identified the dead shooter as a Navy employee whose work status had been changed earlier this year, said a federal government official who spoke only on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to speak on the record. While that may suggest the motive was job related, authorities haven't ruled out anything including terrorism, the official said. Lanier said she didn't think the other gunmen were part of the military.
> 
> Witnesses described a gunman opening fire from the fourth floor, aiming down on people in the first-floor cafeteria. Others said a gunman fired at them in a third-floor hallway. It wasn't clear whether the witnesses on different floors were describing the same gunman.  As emergency vehicles flooded the streets around the complex, a helicopter hovered overhead, nearby schools were on lockdown and airplanes at nearby Reagan National Airport were briefly grounded so they wouldn't interfere with law enforcement choppers. Less than 2 miles away, security was beefed up at the U.S. Capitol and other federal buildings, but officials said there was no known threat.
> 
> ...


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Asclepias said:


> No civilian should own a gun capable of firing automatically. If you have one you should be trained and certified in its use. Civilians also should not have access to large volume magazines.



Why?


----------



## koshergrl (Sep 16, 2013)

Because if they are armed, they can defend themselves from the State.

And we can't have that.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Luddly Neddite said:
> ...



You are the one that claimed that the only reason that you mention guns is the killers use guns, did you lie?


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Asclepias said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



So?


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Asclepias said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



It is not illegal to own automatic weapons.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> Edgetho said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



Yawn.

Bill Maher Admits He Lied To Get People To Appear In 'Religulous' | NewsBusters


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Sep 16, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > No civilian should own a gun capable of firing automatically. If you have one you should be trained and certified in its use. Civilians also should not have access to large volume magazines.
> ...



Automatic weapons are already heavily controlled. In 13 States outright banned in the rest you need a Federal License to own one and must inform the ATF if you move, you move the weapon or cross any state lines with it.

The second is clear we have a right to own personal weapons of a military type, in common usage by the military. That means hand guns, semiautomatic rifles, Bolt action rifles and shotguns. It further means 30 round magazines for rifles and 15 round magazines for hand guns..


----------



## rightwinger (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > So we just had another 12 Americans killed in senseless gun violence
> ...



Who cares?

Gun deaths are the price we pay for our second amendment. Nothing we can do....so suck it up


----------



## DigitalDrifter (Sep 16, 2013)

Meanwhile tens of thousands of times today, firearms were handled safely in America.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Sep 16, 2013)

DigitalDrifter said:


> Meanwhile tens of thousands of times today, firearms were handled safely in America.



Over 300 million firearms in civilians hands over 310 million citizens and less than 32 thousand die a year by firearms from all sources, including the lions share suicide.

There is no firearms problem.


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Sep 16, 2013)

Asclepias said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...


Arizona. I'm sure there are others.


----------



## Sunshine (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Actually, a racist rw cockroach started in immediately about the guy being black. Another racist rw cockroach helped spread even more hate.
> 
> And now, I'm sure other racist cockroaches will join in.
> 
> (two other possible shooters are white)







Luddly Neddite said:


> I have to admit that I had no idea that MILITARY BASES must obey city laws but, hey - racist katzen roach is all knowing.




^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



Luddly Neddite said:


> You guys crack me up. Instead of ever, just once, trying to understand or converse, you immediately attack.
> 
> Just fyi for Surfer cockroach - Harry Dresden is a professional rw troll who goes from thread to thread, posting really idiotic attacks on me. He's on your side.



Talk to yourself often do ya?


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Sep 16, 2013)

AzMike said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



Last time I checked, been a while I agree, 37 States allowed automatic weapons. Only 13 banned them. Once again it requires a federal tax and license and you have to keep ATF notified where you have the weapon and you can not cross State lines with it without notifying ATF.


----------



## Vox (Sep 16, 2013)

they all died?

earlier the reports were telling some wounds weren't serious.


----------



## KissMy (Sep 16, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Homicides by gun in the USA are going down as the number of guns increase in the USA.


----------



## tinydancer (Sep 16, 2013)

Asclepias said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



This has to be one of the most uninformed and ignorant posts I have witnessed on any board at any time.

And I am talking ignorant in the true sense of the word.

Wow, just wow.


----------



## BDBoop (Sep 16, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Yup, exactly.


----------



## Sunshine (Sep 16, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Drug addicts and hungry children are the price we pay for giving welfare hoochie mammas free cell phones, free living quarters, and free food cards they can use to trade with the drug dealer.


----------



## Asclepias (Sep 16, 2013)

RetiredGySgt said:


> AzMike said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



Thanks for that information.


----------



## bianco (Sep 16, 2013)

Asclepias said:


> No civilian should own a gun capable of firing automatically.  Civilians also should not have access to large volume magazines.



Exactly.

or firing semi-automatically.

After one too many massacres, Australia outlawed the sale and possession of all auto and semi auto weapons, including shotguns.

Single shot rifles and single shot shotguns only allowed.
Prime Minister announced a buyback, and an amnesty for all illegal weapons [handguns etc etc]

Auto and semi auto weapons, all gone...no more massacres.


----------



## Asclepias (Sep 16, 2013)

tinydancer said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Luddly Neddite said:
> ...




This post is the epitome of ignorant.  Go do some research and get back to me.


----------



## Little-Acorn (Sep 16, 2013)

The count of 12 victims dead, plus one shooter dead, hasn't changed in a while. Now they seem to be saying there are three more wounded, they are expected to recover. No more gunmen found, but they're still looking.

Apparently "internal security (that would be Navy, maybe Shore Patrol?) engaged the shooter first. Then police showed up and a gun battle ensured, in which a police officer was wounded and the shooter (Aaron Alexis) was killed.

---------------------------------------

Shooting rampage at Navy Yard in D.C. leaves 13 dead

(snip)

Washington Metropolitan Police Chief Cathy Lanier said one shooter was killed in an exchange of gunfire with authorities and one police officer was wounded. Federal officials identified the dead shooter as Alexis.

Internal security at the Navy Yard building had already "identified and engaged the shooter" by the time the first D.C. police arrived, Lanier said.

She said police exchanged gunfire with the shooter "multiple times" before the final gun battle.


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Sep 16, 2013)

RetiredGySgt said:


> AzMike said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...


It's expensive I know that but not much else. Kind of a rich mans game there. Which kind of fits into this discussion. All these gun grabbers accomplish by making new laws restricting access and increasing taxes on arms and ammo accomplish is leaving the poor that are law abiding at the mercy of the criminals that don't care. You want to cut down on gun violence in Chicago the way to do it is make guns easier for law abiding citizens to get and carry.


----------



## hjmick (Sep 16, 2013)

This thread needs to be moved to the romper room, or whatever the fuck they call it.


Congratulations people, 12 dead, who knows how many wounded, and all you care about is calling each other names, laying blame where there is none, and swinging your digital dicks around.


Kudos.


----------



## williepete (Sep 16, 2013)

tinydancer said:


> _"Wait until you find out that militia was just another word for slave patrols and the only reason the 2nd amendment is a state right instead of an federal right is because the southerners forced this in order to make sure they had the right to kill slaves in the event of an uprising."_
> 
> This has to be one of the most uninformed and ignorant posts I have witnessed on any board at any time.
> 
> ...



No kidding. I'm still shaking my head. It's beyond bizarre. Nothing factual or historical which could lead to this conclusion.  

For the benefit of Asclepias:

*THE HISTORY OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT*

Full essay:

http://www.constitution.org/2ll/2ndschol/89vand.pdf

Conclusion:

English history made two things clear to the American revolutionaries: force of arms was the
only effective check on government, and standing armies threatened liberty. Recognition of these premises meant that the force of arms necessary to check government had to be placed in the hands of citizens. The English theorists Blackstone and Harrington advocated these tenants. Because the public purpose of the right to keep arms was to check government, the right necessarily belonged to the individual and, as a matter of theory, was thought to be absolute in that it could not be abrogated by the prevailing rulers.

These views were adopted by the framers, both Federalists and Antifederalists. Neither group trusted government. Both believed the greatest danger to the new republic was tyrannical government and that the ultimate check on tyranny was an armed population. It is beyond dispute that the second amendment right was to serve the same public purpose as advocated by the English theorists. The check on all government, not simply the federal government, was the armed population, the militia. Government would not be accorded the power to create a select militia since such a body would become the government's instrument. The whole of the population would comprise the militia. As the constitutional debates prove, the framers recognized that the common public purpose of preserving freedom would be served by protecting each individual's right to arms, thus empowering the people to resist tyranny and preserve the republic. The intent was not to create
a right for other (pg.1039) governments, the individual states; it was to preserve the people's right to a free state, just as it says.

-DAVID E. VANDERCOY, Professor of Law, Valparaiso University School of Law


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Sep 16, 2013)

bianco said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > No civilian should own a gun capable of firing automatically.  Civilians also should not have access to large volume magazines.
> ...



Crime rates in Australia have increased every year since the ban went into effect. Ours have gone down since the AWB went away. Coincidence? Probably not.


----------



## Little-Acorn (Sep 16, 2013)

AzMike said:


> All these gun grabbers accomplish by making new laws restricting access and increasing taxes on arms and ammo accomplish is leaving the poor that are law abiding at the mercy of the criminals that don't care. You want to cut down on gun violence in Chicago the way to do it is make guns easier for law abiding citizens to get and carry.



After studying historical governments long and hard, the people who wrote and ratified the 2nd amendment decided it was better to have the possibility of an occasional whacko shoot a bunch of people (possible even with the weapons back then), than to give the government even the slightest authority to decide who could have a gun and who couldn't.

That remains true today.

Those who keep pushing for govt to put in place "just a few common-sense restrictions" on who can have a gun and what kind, are opening a Pandora's box that results in a lot more innocent people dying, than if they hadn't.


----------



## Asclepias (Sep 16, 2013)

williepete said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > _"Wait until you find out that militia was just another word for slave patrols and the only reason the 2nd amendment is a state right instead of an federal right is because the southerners forced this in order to make sure they had the right to kill slaves in the event of an uprising."_
> ...



Thanks for providing a link.  Here's mine.  Word to the wise.  Historians omitted or glossed over lots of things.

The Second Amendment was Ratified to Preserve Slavery


----------



## Indofred (Sep 16, 2013)

Surfer said:


> I DESPISE these cowards who go in and shoot up innocent Americans. I hope they fry his ass.
> S-L-O-W-L-Y!



Yes, but that's Americans for you.
Always shooting each other.

What, you thought it was a foreigner, not an American serviceman gone wild?


----------



## Black_Label (Sep 16, 2013)

Little-Acorn said:


> AzMike said:
> 
> 
> > All these gun grabbers accomplish by making new laws restricting access and increasing taxes on arms and ammo accomplish is leaving the poor that are law abiding at the mercy of the criminals that don't care. You want to cut down on gun violence in Chicago the way to do it is make guns easier for law abiding citizens to get and carry.
> ...



You clearly don't have a clue, and your glenn beck books are nothing but propaganda.

Take a look back at who made the strictest gun rights and attacks on the 2nd amendment, and it came from the southern right wingers. They made it illegal for blacks to own guns and banned concealed carry as well because they were afraid all the now free slaves were going to go on a rampage killing all the white people, which never happened.

The right winger's view was that they would go after the 2nd amendment like never before, just as long as blackie can't have guns.


----------



## Contumacious (Sep 16, 2013)

bianco said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > No civilian should own a gun capable of firing automatically.  Civilians also should not have access to large volume magazines.
> ...



Move to Australia, call them first and they will throw an extra shrimp on the barbie for you.

.

.


----------



## Snouter (Sep 16, 2013)

A Congressional Black Caucus politician said don't let the shooting worry y'all, Washington DC is a safe city!


----------



## wavingrl (Sep 16, 2013)

'discharged from the military following patterns of misconduct'--he was discharged in 2011

until more specific fyi is released this provides a framework for the Navy Yard shooter's motivation.


----------



## namvet (Sep 16, 2013)

im hearing 13 dead


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Sep 16, 2013)

Black_Label said:


> Little-Acorn said:
> 
> 
> > AzMike said:
> ...


It was Democrats that wanted the restrictions, don't let facts trip you up.

You did prove our point though. The reason to take gun rights away was to suppress people. No different than it would be today if we allow people like you to take our rights away. Crazy how that works isn't it?


----------



## Black_Label (Sep 16, 2013)

AzMike said:


> Black_Label said:
> 
> 
> > Little-Acorn said:
> ...



It was the southern right wingers. Just like today, they hate the constitution and want big government restrictions over everyone.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Asclepias said:


> williepete said:
> 
> 
> > tinydancer said:
> ...



Truth out dot org? You consider that a reliable source? 

Tell you what, just so that your brain doesn't fart if I try to explain why no legitimate law article would be written using a pseudonym, let us conclude that you are 100% right. I will then switch my defense of the right to keep and bear arms to the 14th Amendment, which was clearly ratified with the intention of arming former slaves so they could fight off the whites who wanted to oppress them. Unfortunately, assholes like you, argued that it did apply to the states, which allowed the states to prohibit people from owning guns without a background check that involved skin color. By continuing to argue that there is no personal right to bear arms, even for the descendents of slaves, you are a racist, not me.


----------



## williepete (Sep 16, 2013)

Asclepias said:


> Thanks for providing a link.  Here's mine.  Word to the wise.  Historians omitted or glossed over lots of things.
> 
> The Second Amendment was Ratified to Preserve Slavery



I see you didn't have enough time to read Professor Vandercoy's essay nor his copious reference material before you shot back. (Less than 10 minutes). I did take the time to read yours. Not meaning to insult, but to call it revisionist hogwash is an insult to hogwash. I appreciate your posting an opinion piece that supports your position. History and facts prevent me from forming the same opinion from the piece you posted. I'll stick with the conclusions of Professor Vandercoy's essay and references, The Federalist Papers, the Anti-Federalist Papers and my 30 years of studying history.

That this tragedy has debased so quickly to an anti-rights debate is as predictable as it is sad. 13 dead and the cause is still unknown. Police got there in minutes, engaged the shooter and stopped him from killing more. Thanks to the first responders and prayers for the grieving families.


----------



## laughinReaper (Sep 16, 2013)

namvet said:


> im hearing 13 dead



Well at least we won't have to pay for this nutjobs trial. 

My Sympathies to the families who lost thier loved ones.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 16, 2013)

Two things we are going to find out about this guy by Friday.  

1) Everyone in his life knew he was seriously disturbed with serious problems.  

2) Despite that it was much too easy for him to get a gun.


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

TemplarKormac said:


> Liberals have a bad way of being insensitive in times of tragedy. Boston, Fort Hood, Tuscon, Aurora, Sandy Hook, Washington D.C. ... they have literally no shame about them.




Yeah - wingnuts are soooo sensitive!


http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/287295-chicago-s-black-mob-violence.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/308625-7-year-old-shot-last-night-in-chicago.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...-students-viciously-beat-a-white-student.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...eekend-in-chicago-including-a-6-year-old.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...-the-faces-of-the-chicago-murder-victims.html



Don't you get tired of me making you look like a fool?  (I don't!  )


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Black_Label said:


> AzMike said:
> 
> 
> > Black_Label said:
> ...



Southern right wingers are the reason blacks can own guns in DC and Chicago, which are run by Northern left wingers..


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Two things we are going to find out about this guy by Friday.
> 
> 1) Everyone in his life knew he was seriously disturbed with serious problems.
> 
> 2) Despite that it was much too easy for him to get a gun.



Why do you want to wait until Friday to find that out?


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > No civilian should own a gun capable of firing automatically. If you have one you should be trained and certified in its use. Civilians also should not have access to large volume magazines.
> ...


What was the purpose of the Constitution, QW?


----------



## Sunshine (Sep 16, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Black_Label said:
> 
> 
> > AzMike said:
> ...



They have that logic thingy down to an art, don't they?


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 16, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Two things we are going to find out about this guy by Friday.
> ...



I'm giving them enough time to start unwinding this guy's past.  

Usually takes about three days to find all his friends to tell us he was nuts, and the gun store admitting they sold him a small arsenal despite that quirky look in his eye.


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> Because if they are armed, they can defend themselves from the State.
> 
> And we can't have that.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urMjGAimtRc]Roger Hodgson - Dreamer [Live] - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



Let's keep it simple for you.

It was written so that idiots on message boards could argue about why it was written.


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Edgetho said:
> ...


Fail.  This has nothing to do with his broadcasts.


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


True.  And I'm having a harder time feeling sympathy for victims who most likely opposed any restrictions on weaponry.


----------



## laughinReaper (Sep 16, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Well as concerned citizens maybe we should give the government a clue:

ATTENTION INVESTIGATORS, CHECK SOCIAL MEDIA FIRST FOR THIS GUYS MANIFESTO.

You're welcome. 


It will still take them to Friday to figure out everybody knew this guy was screwy and had guns.


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

DigitalDrifter said:


> Meanwhile tens of thousands of times today, firearms were handled safely in America.


This wasn't an accident, due to mishandling, dope.


----------



## rightwinger (Sep 16, 2013)

Sunshine said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



Free cell phones cause drug addiction?

Who'd a thunk it?


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



You didn't say anything about broadcasts, did you?

Remember when he said he had a lot of stuff about Christine O'Donnel and that he would show a video every week until she came on his show? Remember how what he actually had was the same clips recycled multiple times? Does that count as a lie?

Remember when he said that the Senate didn't have a filibuster? And when he said that a 50 to 49 vote would mean that the Vice President came in to break the tie? Was that lying?

Remember when he said that the people that flew airplanes into buildings were the opposite of cowardly Americans, and then said he didn't? Was that lying?

Or are you just full of shit?


----------



## tinydancer (Sep 16, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



It's already out there you idiot.

* REVEALED: Gunman, 34, who murdered TWELVE and injured 15 in Washington Navy Yard rampage was decorated petty officer discharged for misconduct in 2011 after gun charge *

The gun charge was an accidental discharge of a firearm in Fort Worth.

Home | Mail Online


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

Sunshine said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



Are you talking about ReaganPhones?

Ring Wing Goes Crazy Over 'Obama Phones' Which Are Actually 'Reagan Phones' | Alternet

They?re Reagan phones, not Obama phones | MonroeNews.com

snopes.com: Free 'ObamaPhones' for Welfare Recipients


You have absolutely no business participating on a political message board, you dope.


----------



## DigitalDrifter (Sep 16, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > williepete said:
> ...



It's Thom Hartman, so yeah, take it with a grain of salt.


----------



## rightwinger (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



This is America

We are willing to put up with an occasional massacre as long as we have our guns


----------



## tinydancer (Sep 16, 2013)

Asclepias said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



You are one fucked up poster to actually believe that the Second was all about killing slaves and the right to kill slaves. Unreal.


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

hjmick said:


> This thread needs to be moved to the romper room, or whatever the fuck they call it.
> 
> 
> Congratulations people, 12 dead, who knows how many wounded, and all you care about is calling each other names, laying blame where there is none, and swinging your digital dicks around.
> ...



Remove all that, and all you have left is one post saying how sad it is, with 100 'thanks' beneath it.


----------



## novasteve (Sep 16, 2013)

Any chance he was subcontracted by hp as an affirmative action as required by federal law despite his record?


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

AzMike said:


> bianco said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...


Bullshit.


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

Asclepias said:


> williepete said:
> 
> 
> > tinydancer said:
> ...


I'm POSITIVE that tinydancer will be along shortly to apologize to you.

Because she's classy!


----------



## Kondor3 (Sep 16, 2013)

Ya'll can't have the guns...


----------



## novasteve (Sep 16, 2013)

Why was his criminal record overlooked?


----------



## Tank (Sep 16, 2013)

novasteve said:


> Why was his criminal record overlooked?


Affirmative action


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > williepete said:
> ...




The author is Thom Hartmann, and he is a reliable source, and not the only source.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Slave-Patrols-Violence-Carolinas-Historical/dp/0674012348/"]Slave Patrols: Law and Violence in Virginia and the Carolinas (Harvard Historical Studies): Sally E. Hadden: 9780674012349: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]



We already had a whole thread on this subject, that I started back in January:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...endment-was-ratified-to-preserve-slavery.html


----------



## Missourian (Sep 16, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Fox news is reporting he told friends he was going to thailand and stayed for more than a month...

My guess is he didn't go to thailand...but instead headed to a training camp.

Just a guess,  no proof...a gut feeling.


----------



## Brain357 (Sep 16, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> So did luddly come back and insist again that military bases are not gun free zones?
> What a complete and utter retard.
> 
> These mass shootings never happen on a shooting range!!
> ...



This sounds like there was a lot of security.  Still didn't make much of a difference.  Do you really think we will ever have more security at schools and theaters?

Chris Kyle and friend were gunned down at a shooting range and the shooter got away.

Innocent people died today.  Why don't you stop your idiot political rant until the facts are out at least.


----------



## novasteve (Sep 16, 2013)

Libs, this guys must have had some incredibly job skills for them to have overlooked his criminal history. Eh?


----------



## tinydancer (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > williepete said:
> ...





Not a chance.

I don't see reality of American history solely thru the lens of racial issues. The Second does not come under the slavery umbrella. 

Now the Fourteenth most certainly. That's all about making sure that the freemen could have the rights granted under the Second.  

Well partially. There's a lot more to it. But the 14th was applied as recently 2010 McDonald vs Chicago. The Court used it to back up their decision on the 2nd. 

By the way, I really do know my shit on this. Check out the fabulous debate I had with Dante in the bullring.

I loved debating him. Highly intelligent and well versed.


----------



## williepete (Sep 16, 2013)

DigitalDrifter said:


> [It's *Thom Hartman*, so yeah, take it with a grain of salt.



At the recommendation of two liberal friends of mine, I listened to Thom Hartman's radio show way back when. That he was snarky and condescending didn't bother me. That's a common shtick on talk radio. What bothered me was the BS he'd make up on the fly. If he'd have taken time to research and spin real history, he'd only fool the truly ignorant. But when he's on a roll, anything will just fly out of his mouth. He'd state as fact the most outrageously false things and used them as support for his vision of a collectivist future. His audience (my liberal friends included), ate it up as fact. When he sold his soul to Russian TV as Putin's mouthpiece, that did it for me. He successfully filled in the useful idiot square. You've really got to suspend reality to listen to him or willfully join his agenda of pushing the unicorn ranch fantasy--Again. 

How many millions died last time chasing Utopia? Wait, hold that answer. It's still going on in Cuba, China and North Korea so the score isn't in yet. But on the bright side, all three have strict gun control.


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Two things we are going to find out about this guy by Friday.
> ...



^^^ Reading comprehension issues.


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...


Is this an admission that you don't know?


----------



## novasteve (Sep 16, 2013)

Missourian said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...


I doubt he is a jihadist but southern Thailand has jihadis


----------



## Brain357 (Sep 16, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> novasteve said:
> 
> 
> > Why was his criminal record overlooked?
> ...



2 people still dead.  That means nothing to you eh?

Again this place had a lot of security and it didn't matter.  

I'm glad you enjoy innocent people dying.


----------



## Brain357 (Sep 16, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



There have been mass shootings with concealed carry people there.  Unfortunately you can't always tell who the good and bad guys are.  Here is a quote from the Tucson shooting:
"Zamudio later stated that he initially mistook the identity of the shooter and had considered drawing his weapon before realizing that individual was not the shooter."
Clearly the location of the Tucson shooting was not a gun free zone.  Shootings happen everywhere.  Military bases and shooting ranges.


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

laughinReaper said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...


I've seen an interview with his "best friend and roommate" from Texas who said there were no indications of this event.  The guy was apparently a video game addict, partial to FPS games, so watch for the obligatory "video games are the devil" statements.


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



No.  Did he claim they were different clips?  Did he claim he would show different clips until she came on?  Again, no.



> *Remember when he said that the Senate didn't have a filibuster? *And when he said that a 50 to 49 vote would mean that the Vice President came in to break the tie? Was that lying?



No, I don't remember that, and I've seen every one of his shows.

And in case of a Senate tie, the Veep DOES hold the tiebreaker.

That's how the Bush Tax Cuts were inflicted upon America.



> Remember when he said that the people that flew airplanes into buildings were the opposite of cowardly Americans, and then said he didn't? Was that lying?




No, that's you lying right now.  He never said that.




> Or are you just full of shit?



So, what was the purpose of the Constitution?

Or are you going to punk out again?


----------



## Vox (Sep 16, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > novasteve said:
> ...



it means you were lying substituting homicide for reasons which can be found in the relationships between those 3 and a mass random shooting of a psycho "to show them all"


----------



## Black_Label (Sep 16, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



Damn are you stupid, you can parrot the right wing propaganda like toucan sam!

Now for the facts, only 23% of mass shootings happen in gun free zones. 

http://libcloud.s3.amazonaws.com/9/56/4/1242/analysis-of-recent-mass-shootings.pdf


----------



## Geaux4it (Sep 16, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > novasteve said:
> ...



But the statistics are in favor or law abiding gun owners. This is just another outlier

-Geaux


----------



## Vox (Sep 16, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



a LIE. mass shootings do not happen at shooting ranges.

himicide involving people who know or are related to each other can happen. but those happen anywhere, and most often in you very home.


----------



## Brain357 (Sep 16, 2013)

Vox said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



Thankfully he stopped after 2.  But nobody at the range stopped him.  He just left.  Why should I believe a range is some safe place?


----------



## Geaux4it (Sep 16, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Vox said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Statistically, America is safer than many other countries when it comes to firearm homicides

-Geaux


----------



## Vox (Sep 16, 2013)

Black_Label said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Bloombergs site 

you are ridiculous.

that is a LIE.

mass shootings of the last years all happened in the gun-free zones, all, except giffords


----------



## Vox (Sep 16, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Vox said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



he didn't stop at 2. he killed whom he planned. that's it.
there was nothing to stop - he planned to kill those 2, he did it.
and I don't care what you believe.

you are so obviously bending the facts to fit your lying agenda, that what you say is not what you believe and what you do is not what you say as well - typical leftard


----------



## Missourian (Sep 16, 2013)

I just read on NBC Washington that Alexis only had a short barrel pump action shotgun when he entered the secured area.

He ambushed a guard and took his 9mm and ammunition...

He used that weapon to get the AR-15 from an officer.


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Pro-life only goes so far . . .


----------



## Brain357 (Sep 16, 2013)

Vox said:


> Black_Label said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



So the mass shooting at the IHOP in Carson City, Nevada was a gun free zone?  Are you sure or do you need to add another except?  You really can't say all when there are lots of exceptions.


----------



## Brain357 (Sep 16, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



I've given 2 examples now of mass shootings not in gun free zones.  You want me to continue?


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

tinydancer said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...


You're a Canadian - what the hell do you know?


----------



## Missourian (Sep 16, 2013)

NBC News correspondent Pete Williams is reporting Alexis purchased a shotgun in Lorton, Va. during the past week or so.

The suspected gunman appeared to have *seized firearms* from two of his victims as he moved through the building along the Anacostia River in southeast Washington, where 3,000 Navy employees go to work each day, many of them carrying authorized firearms.

13 Dead, 14 Wounded in Shooting at D.C. Navy Yard, Suspected Gunman Dead | NBC4 Washington


----------



## Black_Label (Sep 16, 2013)

Vox said:


> Black_Label said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



I provided proof, you have provided bullshit. Source a link or once again you will be shown to be making up crap, then believing yourself.


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

Missourian said:


> I just read on NBC Washington that Alexis only had a short barrel pump action shotgun when he entered the secured area.
> 
> He ambushed a guard and took his 9mm and ammunition...
> 
> He used that weapon to get the AR-15 from an officer.


That's the Lamestream media - you can't believe THEM!


----------



## williepete (Sep 16, 2013)

Missourian said:


> NBC News correspondent Pete Williams is reporting Alexis purchased a shotgun in Lorton, Va. during the past week or so.
> 
> The suspected gunman appeared to have *seized firearms* from two of his victims as he moved through the building along the Anacostia River in southeast Washington, where 3,000 Navy employees go to work each day, many of them carrying authorized firearms.
> 
> 13 Dead, 14 Wounded in Shooting at D.C. Navy Yard, Suspected Gunman Dead | NBC4 Washington



The first witness I heard speak this morning specifically stated he saw the shooter with a shotgun. Unfortunately, that doesn't fit the narrative. We won't hear much about it. We gotta go after those assault rifles with their assault magazines and assault hand grips; the assault gloves, shirts, hats, pants, socks and especially assault underwear.

Gotta stop here for now. Need to go to the kitchen to get another assault glass of wine and a slice of assault cheese. Back later to log onto my assault computer.


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...


A military base is not a gun free zone, retard.


----------



## Brain357 (Sep 16, 2013)

Missourian said:


> NBC News correspondent Pete Williams is reporting Alexis purchased a shotgun in Lorton, Va. during the past week or so.
> 
> The suspected gunman appeared to have *seized firearms* from two of his victims as he moved through the building along the Anacostia River in southeast Washington, where 3,000 Navy employees go to work each day, many of them carrying authorized firearms.
> 
> 13 Dead, 14 Wounded in Shooting at D.C. Navy Yard, Suspected Gunman Dead | NBC4 Washington



Hard to believe what anyone is saying just yet.  Sad day though.


----------



## Black_Label (Sep 16, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Black_Label said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



Another fucknut post, you are on a roll!

Mom kills son, then self at gun range - US news - Crime & courts | NBC News

Suspect in shooting range murders threatened to kill self, family in 2012 | wfaa.com Dallas - Fort Worth


----------



## Brain357 (Sep 16, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



4 dead and wounding 7 others isn't a mass shooting?  That's pretty mass in my world.


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

williepete said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> > NBC News correspondent Pete Williams is reporting Alexis purchased a shotgun in Lorton, Va. during the past week or so.
> ...


Except, you're quoting a post that references NBC's Pete Williams.

Yeah - nobody watches NBC.


----------



## Vox (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



yes it is. some areas


----------



## Plasmaball (Sep 16, 2013)

Missourian said:


> I just read on NBC Washington that Alexis only had a short barrel pump action shotgun when he entered the secured area.
> 
> He ambushed a guard and took his 9mm and ammunition...
> 
> He used that weapon to get the AR-15 from an officer.



nobody could prepare for this..


----------



## Vox (Sep 16, 2013)

Black_Label said:


> Vox said:
> 
> 
> > Black_Label said:
> ...



that is not prof - that is bunch of lies from ANTI-GUN site


----------



## Vox (Sep 16, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



except those were NOT mass shootings. but a nice try


----------



## Vox (Sep 16, 2013)

Black_Label said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Black_Label said:
> ...



you don't know what is MASS SHOOTING?

go educate yourself - your examples are not examples of random mass shooting


----------



## Brain357 (Sep 16, 2013)

Vox said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



IHOP shooting: 4 dead, 7 wounded, total 11 people shot
Tucson: 6 dead, 12 others shot, total 18 shot

In who's sick world are those not mass shootings?


----------



## eflatminor (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> A military base is not a gun free zone, retard.



Wrong.

In 1993, under Clinton's leadership, the military ordered all military bases gun free zones.  Only MPs are allowed to be armed, just like only police and security guards are allowed to be armed at the all the other gun free zones in which mass shootings have occurred.



> Among President Clintons first acts upon taking office in 1993 was to disarm U.S. soldiers on military bases.
> 
> Read more: EDITORIAL: End Clinton-era military base gun ban - Washington Times
> Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter



More here:

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/r190_14.pdf

and here:

Time to Put An End to Army Bases as Gun-Free Zones | Fox News

Does it hurt to always be so damn wrong?

Now, you were saying something about being retarded???


----------



## Missourian (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> > I just read on NBC Washington that Alexis only had a short barrel pump action shotgun when he entered the secured area.
> ...





Even a broken clock is right twice a day.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Sep 16, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Try the death toll at Virginia Tech, Sandy Hook, Luby's Cafeteria and Columbine, then get back to me

Virginia Tech: 33 dead, 17 wounded

Sandy Hook: 27 dead

Luby's Cafeteria: 24 dead, 20 injured

Columbine: 15 dead, 21 injured


----------



## Brain357 (Sep 16, 2013)

TemplarKormac said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



So 4 dead and wounding 7 isn't a mass shooting?  Clearly there are worse shootings, look at today.  But your actually going to say that's not a mass shooting?


----------



## eflatminor (Sep 16, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> > Luddly Neddite said:
> ...



No, it was Clinton that put armed guards in schools with his 1998 COPS program.  Is that the 'rw nutter' you're referring to?

Further, I've never suggested government requiring anyone to be armed.  INDIVIDUALS should be free to arm themselves without the ridiculous interference of a 'gun free zone' by which no criminal will abide.



> Who is at the other end of the campus.
> Or off that day.



Again, allow individuals to protect themselves.



> Or, how about you just post signs: "Mass shooters, Enter Here".



What do you think a 'gun free zone' sign means to a mass shooter?  EXACTLY that!  



> Yeah, that sounds like something you tools would come up with



You nanny state suck ups already did!  There a reason so many shootings occur at gun free zones.  The shooters know they're not likely to encounter armed citizens, but disarmed victims.  Duh.


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## TemplarKormac (Sep 16, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Well, the deaths of four Americans in Benghazi didn't really bother you that much, so no, I don't believe for a liberal this is a mass shooting. 

Listen to how hypocritical you sound.


----------



## Brain357 (Sep 16, 2013)

TemplarKormac said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...



I'm an independent.  Please show me where I ever said Benghazi didn't really bother me?

I was asking you.  Is that a mass shooting?  How many deaths does it take for you?


----------



## williepete (Sep 16, 2013)

eflatminor said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > *A military base is not a gun free zone*, retard.
> ...



Please guys, stop quoting Synthaholic in your responses. It's not necessary and the ignore feature is such a nice filter. Thanks.  

Military bases being gun free zones were in place long before 1993. When I reported to my first AFB in 1977, I could not enter the base with a firearm or a large knife. I knew this beforehand and didn't bring them. After I settled in, I brought down my target rifle and pistol. The restrictions, regulations, storage and handling were strict and the punishments were severe. As in 'you're done' severe.  

State-Side Military bases were the original gun free zones. Overseas non-combat areas were even more strict. The ignorance of this that I witnessed today while surfing the talking heads was amazing. Just goes to show how few people still serve our country anymore.


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## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

eflatminor said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > A military base is not a gun free zone, retard.
> ...




From your own link:


SUMMARY of CHANGE


AR 19014

Carrying of Firearms and Use of Force for Law Enforcement and Security Duties

This revision--

o  Implements applicable portions of Department of Defense Directive 5210.56.

o  Clearly establishes minimum qualification requirements for military police and Department of the Army law enforcement and security personnel (para 2-3).

o  Expands authorization documentation options for authorizing officials (para 2-4).


o  Limits and controls the carrying of firearms by Department of the Army military and civilian personnel (para 2-6).

o  Prohibits the carrying of non-Government owned or issued weapons or ammunition (para 2-6).


o  Prohibits carrying of firearms by persons taking prescription drugs or other medication that may cause drowsiness or impair reaction or judgment (para 2-7).

o  Prohibits consumption of alcohol within 8 hours of carrying firearm or flying
in aircraft (paras 2-7 and 4-3).

o  Requires the use of deadly force with firearms be applied equally to personnel using a weapon or equipment which, when properly employed in their intended application, would exert deadly force (para 3-2)


​*FAIL*


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

Missourian said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Missourian said:
> ...


But how many times a day does a blind squirrel find a nut?


----------



## Missourian (Sep 16, 2013)

Plasmaball said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> > I just read on NBC Washington that Alexis only had a short barrel pump action shotgun when he entered the secured area.
> ...



I agree.  

Guards fall into a routine...they become complacent.

There are techniques to reduce this complacency...and they'll be instated...for awhile,  until the next bout of routine emerges.


----------



## Synthaholic (Sep 16, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


She's a moron.  Don't waste your time with her.


----------



## eflatminor (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



Uhh...you overlooked the "law enforcement" part.  

You trying to tell us soldiers and civilian contractors can freely carry a firearm on a military base?

Didn't think so.

Sorry dipshit, you FAILED.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > williepete said:
> ...



he uses a conspiracy website references an article by Carl T. Bogus and you think he deserves an apology?


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



Keep telling yourself that, it might help you with your guilt.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Missourian said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



He claimed to be a Buddhist, did he go to a Tamir Tigers camp?


----------



## Missourian (Sep 16, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> > NBC News correspondent Pete Williams is reporting Alexis purchased a shotgun in Lorton, Va. during the past week or so.
> ...



I certainly wouldn't take it to the bank...but listening to the multiple press conferences,  when asked about weapons involved,  they seemed quite guarded...more than should have been the case.

That coupled with this report,  I expect we will learn that this is correct.

Very sad day.  With all that security,  there is an expectation of safety.

That makes the reality even worse.

What is the solution?

A rhetorical question arising from frustration...we can debate it next week.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



You should have used >>>.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



Sorry, I forgot I was talking to a guy that doesn't appreciate reality.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



And, if he had pulled his gun and shot the wrong person, you would have a point.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



I get it, it doesn't count as a lie because he never lies, even when he does.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Missourian said:


> NBC News correspondent Pete Williams is reporting Alexis purchased a shotgun in Lorton, Va. during the past week or so.
> 
> The suspected gunman appeared to have *seized firearms* from two of his victims as he moved through the building along the Anacostia River in southeast Washington, where 3,000 Navy employees go to work each day, many of them carrying authorized firearms.
> 
> 13 Dead, 14 Wounded in Shooting at D.C. Navy Yard, Suspected Gunman Dead | NBC4 Washington



I heard that earlier, but never found a solid source. 

I guess that means Biden is going to go after shotguns now.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

Synthaholic said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Did Maher tell you that? If he did, you can count this as a lie too.


----------



## Missourian (Sep 16, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



My first thought is Buddhism is a ruse.

The guy was an aircraft electrician...that means he was no dummy.

I make good money and have very few bills,  and I couldn't afford to  take off work and go to thailand for a month,  and this guy worked at a a low level job at a restaurant after a misconduct separation from the Navy.

Seems hinky to me.

I could be wrong,  I have no evidence whatsoever...just a feeling.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Sep 16, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Independents lean both ways. Don't give me that nonsense.


----------



## Brain357 (Sep 16, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



That would have been another tragedy.  My point was that it wasn't a gun free zone.  Point was made.


----------



## Brain357 (Sep 16, 2013)

TemplarKormac said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...



Way to not answer.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 16, 2013)

williepete said:


> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



That was a matter of discretion. Of all the Navy bases I was stationed on only 3 were categorically no guns allowed, the rest allowed you to keep it locked in your POV.


----------



## Missourian (Sep 16, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> williepete said:
> 
> 
> > eflatminor said:
> ...



The Army posts where I was stationed didn't allow personal firearms to be stored in. the barracks or pov's...personal firearms were secured in the company armory.

I'm not sure what the regulations were for on-post housing.


----------



## williepete (Sep 16, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> That was a matter of discretion. Of all the Navy bases I was stationed on only 3 were categorically no guns allowed, the rest allowed you to keep it locked in your POV.



Thank you. Good point. I should have made my point more clear. This was just my experience on Air Force Bases during my time in service. 

I like working a tough crowd. They keep you honest!


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Sep 16, 2013)

Black_Label said:


> AzMike said:
> 
> 
> > Black_Label said:
> ...



You need to get off the Walter White meth and pay a bit more attention to what is going on here.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Sep 17, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> RandallFlagg said:
> 
> 
> > Contumacious said:
> ...




If I'm not mistaken, a small arms locker is an Armory.  In the Army, sparky. you needed permission from your company commander to store a private weapon in the Armory.

Apparently the Navy does it differently. And, just for the record, that applied at Fort Knox, Fort Hood, Fort Campbell, Fort Devens, Fort Huachuca, Berlin, Mannheim, Stuttgart, Heidleberg,  Fort Reily, Bolling AFB, and the Kennedy Center at Fort Bragg.

So you might want to check what the hell planet YOU were on.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



More than 4. That's a quadruple murder, not a mass murder. If you want to get technical, 5 or more is a mass murder.


----------



## theHawk (Sep 17, 2013)

Meathead said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> > Let the assault on the second Amendment begin....
> ...



Yes, it doesn't matter where it happens, liberals will go wild and start screaming for more gun control.  And that's exactly what they are doing now:





> Washington (CNN) - Hours after the Washington Navy Yard shooting, some of Washington's most vocal advocates for gun control started to renew their calls for further restrictions on firearms.
> 
> Sen. Diane Feinstein, one of the strongest proponents of a ban on assault weapons like the AR-15 that suspected shooter and military contractor Aaron Alexis is believed to have used, issued a statement Monday asking "When will enough be enough?"
> 
> ...


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...tarts-anew-after-navy-yard-rampage/?hpt=hp_t2

Don't even wait for the facts to come in, just start the gun-grabbing campaign!!!


----------



## Politico (Sep 17, 2013)

Seriously you've turned this into a gun debate? You Leftytoons are disgusting human filth


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## Black_Label (Sep 17, 2013)

Politico said:


> Seriously you've turned this into a gun debate? You Leftytoons are disgusting human filth



That was the right wingers, and yes, they are disgusting filth.


----------



## theHawk (Sep 17, 2013)

Black_Label said:


> Politico said:
> 
> 
> > Seriously you've turned this into a gun debate? You Leftytoons are disgusting human filth
> ...



You and your ilk are shameless pieces of shit.  Diane Feinstein wasted no time in using this "opportunity", as Obama might call it, to push the progressive agenda.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa (Sep 17, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> novasteve said:
> 
> 
> > Why was his criminal record overlooked?
> ...



Are you kidding me?  When you talk to other people like that, YOU are the one who makes decent human beings sick.

You sound like you're about to go over the edge.


----------



## Noomi (Sep 17, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Washington Navy Yard shooting: Active shooter sought in Southeast D.C. | WJLA.com
> 
> Police search for active shooter on grounds of Washington Navy Yard in Southeast D.C. - The Washington Post
> 
> ...



I heard this morning that 13 people are dead.

How many fucking innocent people have to be murdered by nutcases before something is done????

Oh wait. Nothing will be done. Nothing is ever done.


----------



## theHawk (Sep 17, 2013)

Noomi said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Washington Navy Yard shooting: Active shooter sought in Southeast D.C. | WJLA.com
> ...



You're probably right, nothing will be done.  Liberals refuse to implement laws that keep criminals behind bars, or the mentally insane in hospitals.

Virtually all of these murdering nutcases has a history of violence but it was ignored, or the system let them have a "second chance".


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## JimH52 (Sep 17, 2013)

So it was not a Muslim.  I am sure the RW is now trying to find some sinister secret about the Buddist, so they can hate on them...Good Grief

Guns, guns, more guns in the hands of nut cases and we will have more and more of these.  But please don't expand the background checks!  The NRA will just have a kitten.


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

TemplarKormac said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...



We are talking mass shooter, not mass murder. More than 5 shot in both cases.  In your bloody book it's not a mass shooter unless all the people die?  If some people are lucky enough to survive it doesn't change that they were shot.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 17, 2013)

Hey, remember when I said that we'd find out that this guy had problems, but was still able to get a gun too easily. 

Aaron Alexis, 34, is dead gunman in Navy Yard shooting, authorities say - The Washington Post



> In 2004, Alexis was arrested in Seattle after he fired three shots from a Glock pistol into the tires of a Honda Accord that two construction workers had parked in a driveway adjacent to Alexiss house. Alexiss father told detectives then that his son had experienced anger management problems that the family believed was associated with PTSD, or post-traumatic stress disorder, according to the police report. The father said Alexis had been an active participant in rescue attempts of Sept. 11, 2001.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow... sounds like he should be up for "NRA Lifetime Acheivement Award".


----------



## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

Missourian said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Missourian said:
> ...



I'm still reading different things in regards to the guns.  Most are saying they don't know yet, but this fresh article says he brought them all with him:

"What we know: Alexis drove onto the grounds of Navy Yard Monday morning with three weapons in his vehicle. He took the weapons out, proceeded into Building 197 and opened fire. He had access to the Yard because of his contracting work, and he used a valid pass to gain entry."

Washington Navy Yard shooting: What we know and don't know - CNN.com

I'm still not believing anything just yet.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 17, 2013)

Noomi said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Washington Navy Yard shooting: Active shooter sought in Southeast D.C. | WJLA.com
> ...



Don't worry, the NRA is already working on other people to blame.


----------



## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> > Noomi said:
> ...



People were at work.  What company lets people bring guns to work?  I've worked for some crazy right wingers, but they sure didn't let employees carry at work.


----------



## birddog (Sep 17, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Hey, remember when I said that we'd find out that this guy had problems, but was still able to get a gun too easily.
> 
> Aaron Alexis, 34, is dead gunman in Navy Yard shooting, authorities say - The Washington Post
> 
> ...



Dumbass!  Anyone that knows much knows that the NRA is opposed to mental cases having guns!


----------



## Geaux4it (Sep 17, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> > Luddly Neddite said:
> ...



Don't matter. 
-Geaux


----------



## KissMy (Sep 17, 2013)

Black_Label said:


> Damn are you stupid, you can parrot the right wing propaganda like toucan sam!
> 
> Now for the facts, only 23% of mass shootings happen in gun free zones.
> 
> http://libcloud.s3.amazonaws.com/9/56/4/1242/analysis-of-recent-mass-shootings.pdf



Of the mass shootings that took place outside the home in public, 54% of those took place in "Gun Free Zones".


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## Geaux4it (Sep 17, 2013)

Wonder if Obama would say if he had a son, this asshat would look like him

-Geaux


----------



## Geaux4it (Sep 17, 2013)

The good news is, 99% of gun owners went about their business yesterday lawfully

-Geaux


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## JoeB131 (Sep 17, 2013)

birddog said:


> [
> 
> Dumbass!  Anyone that knows much knows that the NRA is opposed to mental cases having guns!



No they aren't.  They block EVERY attempt to tighten background checks. 

Shit, they WANT crazy people to have guns.  They want Nancy Lanza to be soooo scared she has to own 12 of them.   

And if she happens to get shot by that crazy kid of hers, who goes on to shoot 26 other people.... well, gee, I guess we need to double up on the Lobbyists.


----------



## rightwinger (Sep 17, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> So did luddly come back and insist again that military bases are not gun free zones?
> What a complete and utter retard.
> 
> These mass shootings never happen on a shooting range!!
> ...



God.....Gun nuts make me fucking sick

After every massacre they spout the same NRA propaganda. Like trained monkeys. Gun free zones, gun free zones.....if everyone were armed, he wouldn't shoot anyone

It is a military base. You have to go through an armed checkpoint to get in. There are more likely to be MPs and security guards than any other target. It is not a convenient target of opportunity


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## Geaux4it (Sep 17, 2013)

There are other countries with more strict laws that have 12x the homicide rate of the US. Other countries like Switzerland and Finland have many, many more guns and less homicides.

Guns are not the problem

-Geaux


----------



## novasteve (Sep 17, 2013)

If all gun owners should be punished for the acts of tiny minorities then all homos should be punished for the irresponsibility of the few homos spreading HIV like wildfire


----------



## novasteve (Sep 17, 2013)

The problem here was that someone was given a job a d a security clearance despite the criminal record


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 17, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> There are other countries with more strict laws that have 12x the homicide rate of the US. Other countries like Switzerland and Finland have many, many more guns and less homicides.
> 
> Guns are not the problem
> 
> -Geaux



Yes, but these are third world countries where central authority has completely broken down, so really, not even an apt comparison. 

When comparing the US to other countries, the ONLY valid comparison SHOULD be other G-7 Countries.  

So, here's the gun murder rates in the G-7. 

United States -  11,101
Italy - 218
Canada 173
Germany - 158
France - 134
UK - 38
Japan - 11. 

Here's the total murder rates for those countries. 

United States -  15,953
Italy - 590
Canada 610
Germany - 690
France - 428
UK - 653
Japan - 582. 

Guns in the United States: Facts, Figures and Firearm Law


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## JoeB131 (Sep 17, 2013)

novasteve said:


> The problem here was that someone was given a job a d a security clearance despite the criminal record



No, the problem was that he was able to OWN A GUN despite a criminal record involving incidents WITH GUNS.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Sep 17, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> birddog said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



So where the "Obama's child killed 12 people" narrative?


----------



## birddog (Sep 17, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> birddog said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



You and the truth are far apart!


----------



## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> There are other countries with more strict laws that have 12x the homicide rate of the US. Other countries like Switzerland and Finland have many, many more guns and less homicides.
> 
> Guns are not the problem
> 
> -Geaux



No country has more guns than the US.  The US has 94.3 guns per hundred residents, Switzerland 45.7 and Finland 45.3.


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## Geaux4it (Sep 17, 2013)

Information in the post in part, comes from the 'Firing Line'

There are between 270-300 million guns in the USA. To put this in perspective, 4% of the worlds population owns 50% of all privately owned guns in the world. Some would think this would mean that the USA should have a homicide rate over 12x (50% divided by 4%) higher than the rest of the world.

In 2012 the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime compared intentional homicide rates for most countries in the world. USA's rate was 4.8 per 100,000 inhabitants while the worldwide average was 6.9. These figures mean you are 30% less likely to be murdered in the USA than elsewhere in the world.. The 4.8 homicide rate is not even close to 12 times higher than the rest of the world.

So much for the hypothesis that more privately owned guns cause more murders.

Now, before you start throwing out how Japan, Australia, UK, Canada where guns are banned have rankings more favorable than the USA in homicide rates, so do Switzerland and Finland which have high rates of private ownership. In fact, Switzerland's homicide rate ranks 42% lower than the UK's. And of course, the gun control movement never mentions Mexico, Brazil and South Africa where private ownership is very difficult and which have homicide rates far above those of the USA.

While the hypothesis that high gun ownership rates cause a _decrease_ in homicide is still being debated, the _inverse_ that high gun ownership causes high homicide rates- is most certainly dead in the water.

-Geaux


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 17, 2013)

birddog said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > birddog said:
> ...



Not really.  When was the last time the NRA backed common sense gun control.  

Not since the 1970's when Frothy LaPeirre took over..


----------



## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> Information in the post in part, comes from the 'Firing Line'
> 
> There are between 270-300 million guns in the USA. To put this in perspective, 4% of the worlds population owns 50% of all privately owned guns in the world. Some would think this would mean that the USA should have a homicide rate over 12x (50% divided by 4%) higher than the rest of the world.
> 
> ...



Your comparing the US to 2 very small countries.  Finland is extremely densely populated and Switzerland is a very rich country(gdp per capita 79k, US 50k).  Sorry but countries like the UK(1.2) and Germany(.8) are much fairer comparisons.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 17, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> [
> 
> The NRA rewards irresponsible and criminal activity?
> Last I saw they were supportive of responsible gun ownership and very clear laws defining who may or may not own a firearm.
> Laws enacted in accordance with constitutional law, at state level of course.



And when someone puts in a law that is a sensible restriction, like "Crazy people can't buy 100 round clips",  they throw the kitchen sink at them.  

I told you "Jokers" that the next major gun slaughter would be on you when it happened.  

And here it is.


----------



## Geaux4it (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > Information in the post in part, comes from the 'Firing Line'
> ...



I am comparing the USA to rest of the world...Why are density and wealth not a factor? And why is the rest of the worlds rate , 6.9 per 100,00 and the USA is 4.8? This, while the USA owns 50% of all guns in the world?

-Geaux


----------



## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...



Comparing to the world includes countries that are very economically and politically unstable.  Compare us to Canada, they are very similar right?  They are a 1.6.  We don't look so good.  But according to the NRA more guns are safer?  Well we have the most of anyone and are far from the safest.

Lets talk Finland.  Very similar to Denmark, Norway, and Sweden.  Those 3 have strict gun laws and much lower homicide rates than Finland.  Go figure.


----------



## rightwinger (Sep 17, 2013)

Noomi said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Washington Navy Yard shooting: Active shooter sought in Southeast D.C. | WJLA.com
> ...



13 deaths?
Who cares?  Lets start to talk about it once it goes over a thousand deaths

America loves it guns and is willing to put up with occasional massacres so that gun owners can continue their fantasies that they are keeping us safe

Personally, I no longer care. People get killed....so what?


----------



## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



Very impressive.  So many posts and not once have you gotten close to an intelligent thought.


----------



## rightwinger (Sep 17, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



GSG5 110 Round Drum Magazine


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## martybegan (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



a magazine is not a clip. Its a quibbling point, I admit, but gun grabbers need to get the lingo and the technology down if they want to even be considered a tiny bit.


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## kwc57 (Sep 17, 2013)

tinydancer said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Luddly Neddite said:
> ...



It's standard assclapias fare.


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## theHawk (Sep 17, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> birddog said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



How about keeping "crazy" people locked up?  Then there is no need for any background checks.


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## kwc57 (Sep 17, 2013)

Noomi said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Washington Navy Yard shooting: Active shooter sought in Southeast D.C. | WJLA.com
> ...



What would you suggest?  Taking away guns from law abiding citizens or rounding up crazy acting people?  Hey, wait.....that would clean out the majority of liberals here.  Hmmmm...........


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## rightwinger (Sep 17, 2013)

martybegan said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



Typical gun nut Bull Shit

We will deny there are 100 round "clips" knowing full well there are 100 round "magazines"

Guess we fooled you


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## novasteve (Sep 17, 2013)

Why do libs only call for action in the rare instances but not the common ones? 10 people had been shot in dc since last Wednesday before this attack and did you hear a peep?


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## theHawk (Sep 17, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> novasteve said:
> 
> 
> > The problem here was that someone was given a job a d a security clearance despite the criminal record
> ...



The problem was that he was a free man despite a criminal record involving incidents WITH GUNS.


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## martybegan (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



If you want to discuss a topic, get the nomenclature right. If someone cares enough about a topic they should be knowledgeable about it. The overall lack of gun technology know how seen in the gun grabber side would be comical if thier efforts weren't so dangerous to our rights.


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## theHawk (Sep 17, 2013)

novasteve said:


> Why do libs only call for action in the rare instances but not the common ones? 10 people had been shot in dc since last Wednesday before this attack and did you hear a peep?



Because even though everyday black on black crime accounts for a disproportionate amount of gun violence, they don't want to address the issue of black criminals running wild in America, and they would rather use the rare "white man on a rampage" to further their anti-gun agenda.  Only this time the "gun nut" shooter was a negro.


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## Katzndogz (Sep 17, 2013)

We don't need gun control.  We need crazy people control.  We don't need more background checks, the ones we have don't work.  We need to take political correctness out of background checks.


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## rightwinger (Sep 17, 2013)

Katzndogz said:


> We don't need gun control.  We need crazy people control.  We don't need more background checks, the ones we have don't work.  We need to take political correctness out of background checks.



How do we keep guns out of the hands of crazy people?
How do we keep assasins from having access to their weapons of choice?


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## theHawk (Sep 17, 2013)

Katzndogz said:


> We don't need gun control.  We need crazy people control.  We don't need more background checks, the ones we have don't work.  We need to take political correctness out of background checks.



Yup, apparently this guy was "hearing voices"....

Why the fuck isn't he locked up in a looney bin?


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## theHawk (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > We don't need gun control.  We need crazy people control.  We don't need more background checks, the ones we have don't work.  We need to take political correctness out of background checks.
> ...



LOCK THEM UP.


How fucking difficult is this for liberals to understand?


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## rightwinger (Sep 17, 2013)

novasteve said:


> Why do libs only call for action in the rare instances but not the common ones? 10 people had been shot in dc since last Wednesday before this attack and did you hear a peep?



How did Heller work out?


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## rightwinger (Sep 17, 2013)

theHawk said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



Thats it?

Lock up anyone who may misuse a gun?  I have alot of gun owners I would like to lock up


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

theHawk said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



Can we even afford to do that?  Under what conditions do you want to just lock people up under?  Any crime?  Any mental condition? Any gun owner who seems a little unstable?


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## kwc57 (Sep 17, 2013)

Here is where we would be if liberal gun grabbers had their way.  Read it and weep.

News from The Associated Press

Outrage is growing in France over the decision to bring manslaughter charges against a jeweler who shot and killed an escaping robber, but the country's top security official on Tuesday urged fearful storekeepers to let justice take its course........

.......In a country where gun violence is rare but thefts are increasingly common, the shooting has placed the government in a difficult position........

........Jewelers in southern France say they're being targeted as never before and lack the resources to protect themselves........

.........A single gunman in the southern city of Cannes made off with a $136 million cache this summer. That was followed by another armed robbery days later in the same city.......

.......The number of jewelry store robberies has been climbing for years. There's one robbery a day in France...........

..........This creates enormous stress for the merchants. They live with this fear and insecurity every day.........

And now that a jewelry store owner used his "illegal" firearm to protect himself and his property from criminals......the government wants to put him on trial.  That my friends is fucked up.


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> > Here is where we would be if liberal gun grabbers had their way.  Read it and weep.
> ...



Look at yesterday to see where the NRA has gotten us.


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## koshergrl (Sep 17, 2013)

theHawk said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



Progressives honor diversity by forcing the rest of us to *mainstream* criminals and deranged individuals, and by *locking up* anyone who dares to protect themselves from them. .


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



There seems to be a lot of confusion regarding the weapons used.  Can't comment till we have facts.


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## rightwinger (Sep 17, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



I guess hat settles it....ban 100 round MAGAZINES and allow 100 round clips because they don't exist


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## koshergrl (Sep 17, 2013)

And the guy has been in trouble a couple of time for discharging weapons. 

Thank progressives for lax sentencing guidelines, too. He shot up the tires of a supervisor once, and he shot into his ceiling by way of protesting a loud upstairs neighbor.


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## rightwinger (Sep 17, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> novasteve said:
> 
> 
> > Why do libs only call for action in the rare instances but not the common ones? 10 people had been shot in dc since last Wednesday before this attack and did you hear a peep?
> ...



God...are you guys dumb


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## rightwinger (Sep 17, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



BFD

Ban the suckers regardless of what you call them


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## martybegan (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



This sums up the gun grabber mentality perfectly. "We dont really know what they are, or if banning them will somehow be beneficial, but I'm scare of it so BAN BAN BAN"

Ignorance may be bliss, but it makes you a piss poor debater.


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## longknife (Sep 17, 2013)

While I felt anguish at the shooting, I couldn't help but notice the way the 24 hour news channels were so desperate to cover it.

The slightest hint was reported with disgusting excitement.

Each wanted to "scoop" the other and none could patiently wait to find out what was really going on.

And then, the Politician-in-Chief didn't have to class to stop or delay his photo op.


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



So a high security navy yard is now an easy target?  Unbelievable.


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## Katzndogz (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > We don't need gun control.  We need crazy people control.  We don't need more background checks, the ones we have don't work.  We need to take political correctness out of background checks.
> ...



Don't you find it odd that every time one of these crazy people commits this kind of crime we find out that everyone knew?   Aaron Alexis had a long history of verified and documented mental illness.  He heard voices, he had brushes with the law based on being crazy.   He had trouble when he was in the Navy and when he got out.    Yet he passed a background check for a secret clearance.   This doesn't bother you?  If everyone knew, how come no one rang the bell?  Or did they ring the bell and no one cared.   Make a complaint and the excuses are racist, anti poor, anti mental health, discrimination, and all the rest.

Assassins are different.  You will never prevent an assassin from having access to weapons.  They aren't crazy, they are working.  Assassins also don't often make mistakes.


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## Katzndogz (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Of course high security areas are easy targets.  People rely on the security to keep someone dangerous from getting in.   Once they are in, it's shooting fish in a barrel.   Now the gunman can rely on that security to make sure no one else is armed that could stop him.


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## martybegan (Sep 17, 2013)

Katzndogz said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...


*

Just look at how long Kulkinsky (Iceman) was able to operate. He is a pyschopath, but an organized one, and he found an outlet for his mentality that was controlled, and only stopped after years of killings.*


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## koshergrl (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Yup. Because the military is disarmed. Thanks to progressive insistence, we don't allow our military to hold their sidearms, even when they are on base.

Intelligent, no? If you want to wipe out a bunch of our military, head to a military base, disarm the guards, then use the security guard weapons  on the unarmed targets congregated there.


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## koshergrl (Sep 17, 2013)

Next to a school, a military base is the best place to go if you want a bunch of unarmed people to wipe out.

Malls still have the errant legal concealed carrier.


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## rightwinger (Sep 17, 2013)

Katzndogz said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



No, they are not easy targets

A shopping mall is an easy target. No armed security. Easy entry. Quick escape
A military base has armed guards at the gates, MPs, dogs. Once an incident occurs it goes under lockdown. Hard to get in, impossible to get out

Want an area with a high percentage of armed civilians?  Try any gang controlled area in America. Pull your gun and start shooting there is a high percentage someone will fire back
Yet they have the highest murder rates in the country.....some deterrent


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

Katzndogz said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



What about the 2 police he shot?  Just fish in a barrel?


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## RandallFlagg (Sep 17, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



Exactly. "Gun Free Zone" and committed by a video game shoot 'em up crazy man.

One more time for the idiots on the left: ENFORCE THE LAWS ON THE BOOKS!!!

WE DON'T NEED MORE "LAWS".  WE DON'T NEED YOUR DAMNED WORTHLESS KNEE-JERK RESPONSES. 

ENFORCE THE LAWS WE ALREADY HAVE!!!

If you MUST pass more "laws" to soothe your worthless souls - pass laws making these damned video game developers scale back on these horrible video games that are rotting the minds of Americans every day. 16 hours a day playing these things. What the HELL do you expect to happen!?!?!


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> Next to a school, a military base is the best place to go if you want a bunch of unarmed people to wipe out.
> 
> Malls still have the errant legal concealed carrier.



It sounds more like no place is safe.


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

RandallFlagg said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Can't disagree with you on video games.  Too real and numbing people to violence.


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## Katzndogz (Sep 17, 2013)

RandallFlagg said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Ohhh it's the VIDEO games!  Yes that's it.  Video games.

Or books, comic books maybe.  How about we crack down on that bloodthirsty HP Lovecraft!  It used to be cartoons.   Elmer Fudd was luring children  into a life of violence by shooting the wascally wabbit.  

It is crazy people and crazy people can use cloud formations to justify their craziness.  Ban cloud formations.


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## martybegan (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> RandallFlagg said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



Keep your damn hands off my games.


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## Kondor3 (Sep 17, 2013)

Tiny-brains who are so easily influenced by something as unreal as a video game, are not destined to evolve much further anyway. Mebbe that's one way to sort the Keepers from the Throw-Aways.


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## koshergrl (Sep 17, 2013)

Ok..so we need to ban guns, games, sugary drinks, the bible, and all mention of God in a public venue.

At the same time, we need to allow crazy people to roam the streets at will, encourage and facilitate perverted sex with and between children, legalize homicide (only if we think they want it, or if we think it would be better for everyone) and accept that criminals cannot be obstructed when committing crimes..or held very long (if at all) in jail.

Got it! It's a brave new world!


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## Harry Dresden (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



pretty piss poor analogy RW.....


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



So he shot 2 highly trained police and you think a concealed carry person would make a difference?  Really?


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## koshergrl (Sep 17, 2013)

Yup.

http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2012/12/mass-killings-stopped-by-armed-citizens.html


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## RandallFlagg (Sep 17, 2013)

Katzndogz said:


> RandallFlagg said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



You take a mentally deranged man, set him in front of a video game that concentrates on graphic murder and mayhem for 16 hours a day (his family and friends have already stated that) and you have the recipe for disaster.

You'd better get used to this. Comic books my ass. Grow up.


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## QuickHitCurepon (Sep 17, 2013)

Katzndogz said:


> RandallFlagg said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



 It could be the video games though.

Everyone is too busy meeting the demands of their jobs or playing video games that if we make a major change and adjust the work week shorter like in Europe, the crazies would disappear into the woodwork.


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## Lonestar_logic (Sep 17, 2013)

martybegan said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > RandallFlagg said:
> ...



Speaking of games..... today is the release date for Grand Theft Auto V.


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## martybegan (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



The guards/polices at the permeter were at a disadvantage has the shooter had the element of surprise. A CC holder would have the surprise on thier side more than likely.


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## martybegan (Sep 17, 2013)

Lonestar_logic said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Yep, the console cowboys are all atwitter. 

I'm waiting for the Elder Scrolls Online.


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

martybegan said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



And the CC owner would know the shooter from another CC owner?


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## martybegan (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Chance you take. Its better than the zero chance you have when a shooter penetrates a perimeter and has only unarmed people in opposition.


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

martybegan said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > martybegan said:
> ...



And police can tell a cc owner from the shooter?


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## martybegan (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Usually the CC holder isnt the one taking potshots at unarmed people.


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## rightwinger (Sep 17, 2013)

Harry Dresden said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



The premise is that gun violence will not occur in areas with a high concentration of civilian gun owners. Gang areas have large percentages of armed citizens yet it doesn't deter them in the least


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## koshergrl (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Uh, yes. Most people aren't quite as stupid as you appear to be.

We will all be grateful forever if you never own or touch a gun.

But people of moderate intelligence are perfectly capable of discerning who is the killer, or otherwise, holding fire. 

Moron.


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

martybegan said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > martybegan said:
> ...



I don't think it's so obvious in a situation like this.


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## koshergrl (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



What is obvious is you're a nitwit. I really don't think in the history of mass shootings there has ever been an instance of people not knowing *which* person is the deranged nutbag.

YOU probably have difficulty discerning, which says more about your perceptions than it does about the reality of these situations. I have never heard of a CC person accidentally taking out another CC person when putting an end to a shooting. Perhaps you have different information. If you do, then share it. Otherwise, shut the hell up.


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## koshergrl (Sep 17, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Harry Dresden said:
> ...



They're just recipients of stolen property. They don't even "own" the guns they use to perpetrate crimes on law abiding people.

RW loses. Again.


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## martybegan (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



So its better that people be completely unable to defend themselves due to the chance of confusion on the part of responders to a mass shooting?

What is obvious is that once this asshole penetrated the perimeter he had ample time to shoot up whomever he wanted to, and the people in there had no recourse except to run, hide, or confront an firearm armed perp with improvised melee weapons.


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## rightwinger (Sep 17, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Harry Dresden said:
> ...



The person firing the weapon is a criminal

It is obvious he is not afraid of armed civilians in gang areas. If so, he would be afraid to shoot....statistics show they are not in the least afraid of people firing back


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > martybegan said:
> ...



A CC owner almost shot the wrong guy at the Tucson shooting.
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/20/myth-of-the-hero-gunslinger/
Guess your the nitwit


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## Spoonman (Sep 17, 2013)

let all me ask all of you anti gun loons here a question.   did the gun have know psychological disorders and a history of violence or did the individual?  

When you have identified an individual with problems through your back ground checks, how do you plan to isolate him from society so this doesn't happen?  Major fail here considering what was known about this guy and his history


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## koshergrl (Sep 17, 2013)

"Almost shot" = "didn't shoot".

Got it.


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## Spoonman (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



so the left wing solution is just let them keep blasting away unopposed.  cool.  sounds like a recipe for mass killings


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> "Almost shot" = "didn't shoot".
> 
> Got it.



Proving its not so easy to tell the good guys from the bad guys.  You lose.


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## Spoonman (Sep 17, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> "Almost shot" = "didn't shoot".
> 
> Got it.



when i was driving down the street the other day I almost killed a few hundred pedestrians on the sidewalk.  fortunately i managed to keep my car on the road.  but they almost died


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## eflatminor (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Guess your the nitwit



Oh the irony!


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

Spoonman said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



And the right solution is to ignore what every other developed nation has done and keep adding more guns.  We've been doing that for a while now.  Doesn't seem to be working.


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## martybegan (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > "Almost shot" = "didn't shoot".
> ...



So basically disarm everyone then?

Except your government overlords, of course.


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## eflatminor (Sep 17, 2013)

Spoonman said:


> let all me ask all of you anti gun loons here a question.   did the gun have know psychological disorders and a history of violence or did the individual?



Based on their illogical arguments, we should ban large capacity spoons because of all the fat people.  Afterall, a lot more people die from obesity related illnesses than firearms...


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

martybegan said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



Didn't say that.  Just pointing out your solution isn't very good.


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## martybegan (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



In a mass shooting, no solution is going to be good. What you want to do is give people the ability to defend themselves, not just the security people the ability to defend themselves.


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## eflatminor (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> And the right solution is to ignore what every other developed nation has done and keep adding more guns.  We've been doing that for a while now.  Doesn't seem to be working.



Actually, America doesn't make the list of the top 100 nations based on homicide rates.  And if you isolated the few counties/boroughs in which so many of the gang-related murders occur,  the rest of the country would have a murder rate akin to Japan...without the monstrously high suicide rate.

The solution is to not prevent law abiding citizens from defending themselves and to keep VIOLENT criminals in prison longer.  A third tactic, which does potentially tread on civil liberties, is to loosen the rules that allow for the incarceration of seemingly mentally unstable persons in mental health facilities.  Of course, the ACLU would be all over that one.


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

martybegan said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > martybegan said:
> ...



What is it I want to do?

So you would force companies to allow employees and customers to carry guns?  And once they are allowed to everyone would carry and we'd be safe?  Issue guns to people visiting our country so they can be safe?


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## koshergrl (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > "Almost shot" = "didn't shoot".
> ...



So did the good guys inadvertently shoot the good guys? No?
The issue wasn't whether it could be difficult...the issue was whether or not armed citizens accidentally kill the wrong people. So far, no, they haven't. You lose. I prefer to have 15 cc citizens debating over which person to shoot, than no cc citizens, and no doubt over who is the person doing the killing (while you're waiting for your turn).


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

eflatminor said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > And the right solution is to ignore what every other developed nation has done and keep adding more guns.  We've been doing that for a while now.  Doesn't seem to be working.
> ...



So rather than strengthen background checks just throw everyone in jail.  Ah freedom.


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## martybegan (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



If you go through the process of becoming a CCW holder, you should be able to carry your weapon unless the owner of the facility does not want you to. In that case the owner has to take responsibility for your safety in the case of an incident. 

Here the owner is the government, and it banned CCW holders from being armed. it then took the responsibility for people's safety, and it failed in that responsibility. It should be liable for the damages done. 

What shouldnt happen is that gun grabbers use this as excuse to curtail my rights to own a firearm.


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## koshergrl (Sep 17, 2013)

You throw the crazy people who have been arrested multiple times for discharging weapons in jail. Hell yes.


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



Actually whether it is difficult is exactly the issue.  To quote you:
"But people of moderate intelligence are perfectly capable of discerning who is the killer, or otherwise, holding fire. "

You lose again.


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## Meathead (Sep 17, 2013)

eflatminor said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > And the right solution is to ignore what every other developed nation has done and keep adding more guns.  We've been doing that for a while now.  Doesn't seem to be working.
> ...


That's racist of course, but yeah.


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

martybegan said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > martybegan said:
> ...



Do you know any company that allows employees to bring guns to work?


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> You throw the crazy people who have been arrested multiple times for discharging weapons in jail. Hell yes.



So the right protects freedom by throwing more people in jail?  And for how long?


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## Peterf (Sep 17, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> You throw the crazy people who have been arrested multiple times for discharging weapons in jail. Hell yes.



Are there many people who discharge weapons in jail?   I suppose anything is possible in the US of A but it seems a bit unlikely.


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## KissMy (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Do you know any company that allows employees to bring guns to work?



Every one I have worked for allowed guns. It was a lot of the darn cities, schools, etc, I went to on service calls that did not allow it that was the problem.


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## koshergrl (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Yeah, the district attorney's office. Many DAs have cc permits, and keep their weapons on them at all times. I know because my sister was one of them.


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

KissMy said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Do you know any company that allows employees to bring guns to work?
> ...



I've never heard of that.  Please name them so I can do some research.


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## martybegan (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Guns in the Workplace | Conceal Carry

I'm sure there are plenty of smaller companies that do, and as you see in the article, some places ban it in thier policies due to insurance requirements, but dont really enforce it. 

Also the idea of concealed carry is "concealed" so unless the CCW holder has concealing issues or is forced to use his weapon, there are probably tons of people who carry with the boss none the wiser.


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > martybegan said:
> ...



Well that covers almost none of the population.  Thanks.


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## Spoonman (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > You throw the crazy people who have been arrested multiple times for discharging weapons in jail. Hell yes.
> ...



you're worried about the rights of a guy who has broken the law multiple times yet you will tread all over a law abiding citizen and restrict their constitutional rights because it is your personal agenda


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## Spoonman (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



not many companies have anything in their policies even mentioning guns.   if you have a carry permit and your company does not specifically say guns are not allowed on their property as erms of employment, no issue


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## koshergrl (Sep 17, 2013)

People don't have a right to defend themselves..but crazy people have a right to attack.


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

Spoonman said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



Where did I say that?  I've just been trying to clear up your position.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

RandallFlagg said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > RandallFlagg said:
> ...



The base was a separate command, and allowed anyone who had their POV to keep weapons in it as long as they, or their ship, was stationed there. Since we were going to deploy on a WestPac we wouldn't be stationed there, and a few people needed a place to store their weapons. The Captain allowed those who had them to store them in the small arms locker because it was the only way to secure them, not because we couldn't have them.


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## Lonestar_logic (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



 Mine.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

theHawk said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> > theHawk said:
> ...



I really want to know how she defines debate. As I recall, there was plenty of debate, and her side lost. Does it only count as debate if she wins?


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

Noomi said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Washington Navy Yard shooting: Active shooter sought in Southeast D.C. | WJLA.com
> ...



I have no idea, when are you going to accept that gun control doesn't make people safe?


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## koshergrl (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Where do you think the DA is housed?

The courthouse.

How many county employees at our county courthouses?

Thank you for proving, again, that you are completely ignorant of the topic you have chosen to expel gas about.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Hey, remember when I said that we'd find out that this guy had problems, but was still able to get a gun too easily.
> 
> Aaron Alexis, 34, is dead gunman in Navy Yard shooting, authorities say - The Washington Post
> 
> ...



I knew you wouldn't wait until Friday.

Tell me something, why wasn't he charged in that incident? The police say they forwarded the case to the city attorney, and he says they never got it. Are you blaming the NRA for the government they are fighting against now?


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Except, last I heard, they had no idea how he got on the yard, and had a video of him ambushing guards to get weapons. Don't worry though, I am 100% sure CNN has never made a mistake.


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## eflatminor (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Disingenuous fuck.  You know damn well that's not what I said.  I said VIOLENT criminals should serve longer sentences...hardly "everyone".  And that you couldn't respond to my first point of not preventing citizens from defending themselves speaks VOLUMES about the lack of logic in your arguments.  Further, background checks didn't stop yesterday's madman from getting clearance to work as a military contractor...but you think it would have stopped him from buying a shotgun?  Please.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> birddog said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



If you have a proposal to tighten background checks, lay it out. If all you have is an attempt to force people to register their guns disguised as closing a non existent loophole, go soak your head.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > There are other countries with more strict laws that have 12x the homicide rate of the US. Other countries like Switzerland and Finland have many, many more guns and less homicides.
> ...



I bet you think you proved how stupid you are.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> novasteve said:
> 
> 
> > The problem here was that someone was given a job a d a security clearance despite the criminal record
> ...



No, the problem is he did not have a criminal record, but you are so stupid you think that proves the NRA is the problem.


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## eflatminor (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Every gun store I've ever been in to, for one.  My father's company, a real estate appraisal office, allowed the appraisers to be armed...or anyone with a permit for that matter.  That's two.


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## koshergrl (Sep 17, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > novasteve said:
> ...


Yup. He told the cops that he shot out the tires of his boss in an "anger-induced blackout"...but the charges were dropped.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

theHawk said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > novasteve said:
> ...



Once again, he HAD NO CRIMINAL RECORD despite the fact that he was arrested for firing a gun twice. They claim they lost the paperwork in Seattle, and no one filed charges in Fort Worth because it was treated as an accidental discharge.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > We don't need gun control.  We need crazy people control.  We don't need more background checks, the ones we have don't work.  We need to take political correctness out of background checks.
> ...



By preemptively killing all crazy people at birth?


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Yet you post links to articles that contain speculation when it favors your position.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



That might make sense if no one had managed to kill 12 people on one.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



What an amazing display of ignorance and racism.

By the way, the reason gang areas have high murder rates is that the law abiding non gang members do not have guns, so the gangs are free to kill people who dis them.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



What about the weapons he took from them? Would an assault weapons ban have prevented him from killing the cops and stealing their weapons?


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



A highly trained individual in combat is a person who has gone through boot camp, applied for special training and got it, runs miles every day, and knows how to react when he is caught flat footed because he thought he was safe.

What made the police highly trained?


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



So are all employees at the courthouse allowed to carry then?

Btw I had asked for companies.  You fail again.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Gang areas do not have high concentrations of armed civilians because they are usually in cities that ban guns. El Paso Texas, on the other hand, does have high concentrations of armed civilians, is less than 100 feet from one of the most violent cites in Mexico, and is still one of the safest cities in the US. It also has no gang areas because there is no gun control so the civilians are armed.

If you weren't a racist that would make sense to you.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Generally, the guy with the multiple long guns is not the CC holder, and the guy that you see at the water cooler every morning who is barricaded in a room protecting other people is. 

Just a thought.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



He didn't which proves he is smarter than you are.


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## Uncensored2008 (Sep 17, 2013)

Two Colorado state legislators who were engaged in an attack on civil rights were recalled. Their recall was a serious blow to the move to disarm the American peasantry.

Couple of weeks later, someone goes on a mass shooting spree.

Obama is incredibly lucky this way, every time his war on civil rights starts to fail, there is a mass shooting.......


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > "Almost shot" = "didn't shoot".
> ...



If he had shot the wrong person, you would have a point. Since he didn't, all you have is pathos.


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



It proves your wrong about the shooter being easy to pick out.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



My solution is to examine all the evidence and draw a conclusion based on it. If you think you have enough evidence to prove your point, start a thread in the CDZ, lay it out, and let intelligent people prove you wrong.

Alternatively, you can pretend you are a brain.


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## Harry Dresden (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



the people they are shooting are themselves at 3 AM in the morning.....if its in the daytime its usually shooting at one another across a park and one of the kids in between them get killed or its a driveby......gang areas also have a pretty good intimidation factor to the people who live there....


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



You are the one that is using force by not allowing companies and individuals to decide for themselves.


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



I guess good guys with guns made the situation worse.


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > martybegan said:
> ...



Making things up again.  When did I say that?


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Strengthen them how? Right now, with the pathetically weak checks you seem to think exist, people who have never done anything illegal, and have never even spoken to a psych, are denied the ability to buy guns because the system is designed to create false positives. Do you want it to come up with more false positives, or do you want to register guns in the guise of closing a loophole that doesn't exist?


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Yes.


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > martybegan said:
> ...



That's a major company.  Thanks for adding so much to the topic.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



I don't recall saying it was easy. If it was easy you could do it, since it actually takes an ability to make a decision, only people with an IQ higher than the average carnivorous plant can actually do it.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



They were security, not good guys.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



I don't have to make things up. You support gun free zones enforced by the government, and want to disarm civilians because they scare you


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## RandallFlagg (Sep 17, 2013)

Spoonman said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > martybegan said:
> ...



Absolutely true. However, in this time of CCW, MOST companies have strict policies against weapons at work. When CCW became the law in Kansas, for example, the law stated that if a business owner didn't want "John Q Public" carrying in his establishment, he was required to post a sign (in full public view) stating "No Guns Allowed". If a CCW permit was caught carrying within that business - he lost his CCW.

Never made much sense to me. You think the bad guys give a damn about a sign?? The only thing that it accomplishes is that everyone in that business is at the mercy of the criminal who is carrying a gun in his waistband because the honest, law-abiding citizen has left his weapon locked in his trunk.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Define major.


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



You've said it and seem to be sayin it again.  You seem very confused.


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



I haven't said any of that.  Lying is just pathetic.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



No, I am saying it takes the ability to think, which is why cops routinely shoot unarmed civilians, they don't think.


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## martybegan (Sep 17, 2013)

RandallFlagg said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



its mostly for insurance purposes.

I have a solution to the issue. If a business bans someone with a CCW from carrying on thier premises, said business becomes responsible for the safety of that person. If they fail to provide said safety, then the CCW (or thier surviving relatives) has the ability to sue the living shit out of that business because they removed the ability of the CCW to defend themselves without providing protection.


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## RandallFlagg (Sep 17, 2013)

martybegan said:


> RandallFlagg said:
> 
> 
> > Spoonman said:
> ...



Excellent point. I haven't lived in Kansas for years, but I'd be damned curious to know if some enterprising young attorney hasn't already thought about that possible legal challenge.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Sep 17, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



LOL.  So pathetic.


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## koshergrl (Sep 17, 2013)

You are pathetic, and nauseating, koos. I don't see any reason to be tolerant of your disgusting views.


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## Lonestar_logic (Sep 17, 2013)

RandallFlagg said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



In Texas there are two different signs that restrict a concealed handgun license holder from carrying into a place of business. They are a 30.06 sign, and a 51% sign. 

 A 30.06 sign is a sign that a business owner can post to restrict a CHL holder from entering the business with a concealed handgun. The sign must contain the exact words required by Section 30.06 in both English and Spanish, be placed in an area visible to the public, and have 1" lettering or it will not be considered a legally-binding 30.06 sign. "Gunbuster" signs, or signs with a red slash through a gun, are not considered valid 30.06 postings. 

 A 51% sign is a sign that a business is required by law to post if 51% of their revenue is obtained through on-premises drinking, such as at a bar. Unfortunately this also has the consequence of not allowing CHL holders to enter the premises where the drinking is taking place while carrying their handgun. 

Additional places are not required to post a sign to forbid CHL holders from entering the premises with their handgun as Texas law already forbids it, such as court houses and educational institutions.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

Why aren't any of the big news agencies trumpeting the fact that the shooter did not have an AR-15, or thousands of rounds of ammo?



> A U.S. law enforcement  official said Monday that gunman Aaron Alexis unleashed a barrage of  bullets using an AR-15, a rifle and a semi-automatic handgun.  Authorities believed the AR-15 was used for most of the shooting, the  official said. The news prompted Sen. Dianne Feinstein, one of the  strongest proponents of a ban on assault weapons like the AR-15, to  issue a statement the same day asking, "When will enough be enough?"
> However, federal law  enforcement sources told CNN Tuesday that authorities have recovered  three weapons from the scene of the mass shooting, including one -- a  shotgun -- that investigators believe Alexis brought in to the compound.  The other two weapons, which sources say were handguns, may have been  taken from guards at the Navy complex.
> The sources, who have  detailed knowledge of the investigation, cautioned that initial  information that an AR-15 was used in the shootings may have been  incorrect. It is believed that Alexis had rented an AR-15, but returned  it before Monday morning's shootings. Authorities are still  investigating precisely how many weapons Alexis had access to and when.



Navy Yard shooting: AR-15, back in the news -- briefly - CNN.com


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## Kooshdakhaa (Sep 17, 2013)

So this guy converted to  Buddhism, eh?  I know some people who were born and raised as Buddhists and they are very good people.  I also know some people who converted to Buddhism as adults and they are all just a little nuts.  Maybe not go out and shoot up a bunch of people nuts, but just a little nutty, nonetheless.  Usually people with too much money and time on their hands, and they are attracted to exotic people and exotic religions and exotic causes like "Free Tibet."  It's like a hobby for them.  Makes them feel worthwhile.

To me it just seems like they're searching, and because they're searching they feel superior to people who have already found what they're looking for...internal peace.

Just my opinion, of course.


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## Spoonman (Sep 17, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Why aren't any of the big news agencies trumpeting the fact that the shooter did not have an AR-15, or thousands of rounds of ammo?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



when will this useless bitch from california learn to STFU?  she spews more information than anyone. she is a totally agenda driven waste of time.  how can californians continue to supprt this mess?


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Why aren't any of the big news agencies trumpeting the fact that the shooter did not have an AR-15, or thousands of rounds of ammo?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've not yet heard what gun did most of the shooting.  No description of shotgun or pistols.


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## Politico (Sep 17, 2013)

I haven't read the last ten pages of drivel. But I imagiine the Leftytoons are still on a gun rant. And that we still don't know much?


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## koshergrl (Sep 17, 2013)

We know it wasn't an AR15,and we know he wasn't a naval officer.


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## Politico (Sep 17, 2013)

Neither points were revelevant from minute one. So nothing then.


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## Geaux4it (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



So you are saying it's not the gun, but the culture. I agree. And to your point earlier about Switzerland being a rich country, once again, it's the culture, not the gun.

I agree we need real consequence for crime and need to lock them up for a very long time. It's clear the issue in the USA is it's failed cultural diversity experiment that causes the homicide rate, not the gun.

Bottom line is the homicide rate in the USA is lower than other countries that have more strict gun laws while owning fewer guns per capita. 

We need to fix our culture, not deny law abiding gun owners their rights

-Geaux


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## Geaux4it (Sep 17, 2013)

Politico said:


> I haven't read the last ten pages of drivel. But I imagiine the Leftytoons are still on a gun rant. And that we still don't know much?



Indeed. And they have not looked at what happened in Colorado last week either. Those 2 asshats were recalled and sent out on a rail. Prelude of things to come in 2014.

The American people will not stand for infringement of our Bill of Rights

-Geaux


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## rightwinger (Sep 17, 2013)

Politico said:


> I haven't read the last ten pages of drivel. But I imagiine the Leftytoons are still on a gun rant. And that we still don't know much?



Who gives a crap?

We have 300 million guns out there....somebody is going to get shot

But at least we have our second amendment to protect us


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## Geaux4it (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Politico said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't read the last ten pages of drivel. But I imagiine the Leftytoons are still on a gun rant. And that we still don't know much?
> ...



Yep, and someone is going to get stabbed, beat with fist (like the Martin thug did), run over with a car, intentionally overdosed, poisoned.

Yep, people are going to die by those who commit crimes

-Geaux


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## rightwinger (Sep 17, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Politico said:
> ...



I mean......does anyone really care?

People are going to get killed. Who cares as long as we are not inconvenienced when we buy our guns?


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## Geaux4it (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Fixed it

-Geaux


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## rightwinger (Sep 17, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...



You are so right....

Crazy assassins need full access to their weapons of choice. Why would we want to do anything that would inconvenience them?

If you do a background check to see if someone is crazy or a criminal, it might take a legitimate gun owner an extra day to buy his weapons


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## koshergrl (Sep 17, 2013)

We have got to start locking up crazy people again:

"Alarmed by Alexis&#8217;s behavior--and concerned about possible &#8220;Naval Base implications&#8221;--a Newport police sergeant faxed a copy of the department&#8217;s report to naval station police.  A Navy cop--whose name is redacted from the Newport Police Department  report--advised that they &#8220;would follow up on this subject and determine  if he is in fact, a naval contractor.&#8221;

Washington Gunman Recently Told Cops He Was Being Bombarded By Microwave Signals That Kept Him Awake At Night | The Smoking Gun


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## Missourian (Sep 17, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> birddog said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...




Uh...no...they don't.

They want a stand alone bill that tightens requirements on mental illness reporting.

The gun grabbers DON'T want a stand alone bill...they want to cram a gun bill with their laundry list of gun control wet dreams.

If they introduce and pass a stand alone bill,  they fear they won't get their other bullshit pushed through.

So every time a crazy person commits a mass shooting,  blame a gun grabber.


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## martybegan (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Its that we don't trust you to stop there. The grabber legislation in NY and conneticuit is an example of this.


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## koshergrl (Sep 17, 2013)

The gun grabbers are the yahoos who insisted we turn all the crazy people out and shut down the mental hospitals in the first place. It was all about mainstreaming the lunatics, and treating insanity as a "disease"...and "educating" people about how harmless schizophrenics are.


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## westwall (Sep 17, 2013)

I just heard on the radio that the shooter was an Obamabot...is that confirmed?


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## Spoonman (Sep 17, 2013)

we have a situation where a guy had issues in the military.  so it's on record.   now he gets out  but still manages to get security clearance to a sensitive naval installation.   The Rhode Island police warn them that this guy is a risk.  still they do nothing.   he is allowed to go through a security check, with metal detectors carrying guns and ammunition.  the writing is all over the wall and nothing is done about this guy.  so he goes on a killing spree and somehow its the guns fault? I mean WTF.  Do you gun grabbing liberal morons get the picture why we think you are a bunch of blithering idiots?  it blows my mind


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## rightwinger (Sep 17, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Politico said:
> ...



Our second amendment doesn't cover the UK


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## tinydancer (Sep 17, 2013)

Who in hell gave this Washington shooter security clearance? I really want to know.

It's as crazy as the situation with Major Hassan where everyone and their mother knew Hassan was a crazed radical for years and he kept getting promoted for crying out loud.

Then turned around and proved that he was that crazy little radical guy that the powers that be ignored and he killed and wounded so many.

What's wrong with the system?


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



You don't like the second? Get an amendment made and passed. Pretty simple concept.


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## tinydancer (Sep 17, 2013)

westwall said:


> I just heard on the radio that the shooter was an Obamabot...is that confirmed?



Yes. By his good friend.

* Tuesday, on CNNs The Lead with Jake Tapper, Michael Ritrovato spoke at length about his friend, suspected Navy Yard shooter Aaron Alexis. 

After expressing his condolences to the victims and their families, Ritrovato then expressed his shock over the actions of a man he described as being like a brother to me and a good-natured guy.

Ritrovato went on to explain that two of them had a close relationship based in part on their differences, specifically race and politics.

 Alexis was black, Ritrovato is white. Ritrovato described himself as conservative and Alexis is more of a liberal type who supported Barack Obama:

I would say things like, You know, you are my brother from another mother. And he would say things like, Youre my Italian mafia guy from New York. So we had things we joked about: 

Aaron wasnt conservative like I am. He was more of a liberal type; he wasnt happy with the former [Bush] administration. He was more happy with this [the Obama] administration  as far as presidential administrations.*

Navy Yard Shooter?s Friend: ?Alexis Was A Liberal and Obama Supporter? (Video) | The Gateway Pundit


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## rightwinger (Sep 17, 2013)

tinydancer said:


> Who in hell gave this Washington shooter security clearance? I really want to know.
> 
> It's as crazy as the situation with Major Hassan where everyone and their mother knew Hassan was a crazed radical for years and he kept getting promoted for crying out loud.
> 
> ...



Depends when he got his security clearance. It is good for ten years. Unless someone reports him, it will stay in effect


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

Missourian said:


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I think keeping the guns out of the hands of crazies is most important.  I hope some bill can be crafted and passed that would do that.  Clearly many of these shooters seek mental help, then buy guns and do something crazy.  I don't think everyone would agree to the type of background checks needed however.  I would say all gun purchases need to have a background check.  Including if I were to buy a gun from you.  And people deemed a bit crazy should be put on a no gun list.  Now even if we passed this I guess I'd be worried that fewer people would seek help knowing they couldn't get a gun?  I sort of hope they seek help when they are still fairly sane, so not being able to buy a gun would be second to actually getting help.  But who knows?


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## rightwinger (Sep 17, 2013)

RetiredGySgt said:


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I love the second amendment

It allows Americans to go out and buy any weapon they choose when they feel like shooting up a Navy Base, school, movie theater or mall
Look, massacres are not easy.....you need the proper weapons


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## rightwinger (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


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NRA will not stand for it


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


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Keep right on lying it fits you so well. What we won't stand for is the Government violating the Constitution. You don't like it change it. But you won't try cause you know a majority would have a shit fit if you admitted what you really want.


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## tinydancer (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


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Ten years is a long time. Are there any intermittent reviews?


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

RetiredGySgt said:


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Would you be agreeable to it?


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 17, 2013)

tinydancer said:


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His discharge from the service should have resulted in a review. Wanna bet it did not happen? If the police had properly reported his legal problems instead of sweeping them under the rug that too would have caused a review.

I know I had my clearance pulled when medically discharged from the service.


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## rightwinger (Sep 17, 2013)

RetiredGySgt said:


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Calm down

You won

Nobody can do a fucking thing about murders and massacres in this country. We will not stand for gun owners to be inconvenienced. If they want an AR-15 with a hundred round magazine, it is their right. Same goes for the fucking crazy who wants to shoot up a school
We have our sacred second amendment and are willing to put up with an occasional massacre.......it is a small price to pay for our second amendment


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


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I would vote against it. The point is if you want to change the rights protected by the 2nd you must amend the Constitution no law will do. And no one is suggesting that because they know it would fail miserably. Meanwhile we have the usual idiots making ignorant comments about how NO ONE is trying to take anyone's weapons.


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## tinydancer (Sep 17, 2013)

Everything I have been reading states that under no circumstances whatsoever would the gun control measure put forward last spring have stopped the purchase of the shotgun by the shooter.

Ergo the new push for more gun control is bullshit once again.

* Despite a history of gun-related outbursts and at least eight behavior-related citations in his U.S. Navy file, the gunman did not have civilian criminal convictions that would have disqualified him from buying the Remington model 870 shotgun, a federal law enforcement source confirmed on Tuesday.
*

More gun-buyer background checks, cry congressional Democrats and newspaper editors after Navy Yard shooting - but would it have helped? | Mail Online


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


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Keep on lying those things are already illegal. To afraid your open support would be shot down in flames I see. Keep on lying it suits your ignorant name.


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## tinydancer (Sep 17, 2013)

RetiredGySgt said:


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Thank you. I appreciate the information.


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

RetiredGySgt said:


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Why would you oppose trying to keep guns away from crazy people?  I don't really think that should require amending the Constitution.  Do you have something you would do to try to stop these shootings?


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## Spoonman (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


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seems like even reporting him caused no cause for alarm.   lets not blame a total breakdown of the system and out government.  lets take the cowards way out and blame the gun, an inanimate object.  gun grabbers get more ridiculous by the day

U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'


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## rightwinger (Sep 17, 2013)

RetiredGySgt said:


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You lie

AR-15 are the gun of choice of our crazed assassins. When you engage in a massacre, you need a bad ass looking gun and nothing beats an SR-15. And why have to stop to reload?  You got people to kill, reloading slows you down
But at least our loyal gun owners can still buy their AR-15s when they want to look bad ass at he shooting range


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


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There are so few shootings and so few dead as to be insignificant when compared to the law abiding firearms owners. Bills get defeated because they try to tack on illegal, unconstitutional amendments and paragraphs.

Claiming I support shootings is not only ignorant it is retarded. It is already illegal for crazy people to own firearms. If law enforcement and the justice system had done their job correctly the naval yard shooter would not have had a clearance and could not have purchased the shotgun.


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


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Well except he used a shotgun.......


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## rightwinger (Sep 17, 2013)

Spoonman said:


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Pulling his clearance would not have stopped him from buying a gun.  He just would have had to choose a different group of people to shoot up


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## rightwinger (Sep 17, 2013)

RetiredGySgt said:


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Yea that sucks for him. If he had bought a decent gun and magazine, he could have killed a lot more people


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

RetiredGySgt said:


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What keeps a crazy person from buying a firearm?


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


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One report said he tried to buy an AR15.  Some law stated he couldn't because he was not from the state.  So he got the shotgun instead.


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## Spoonman (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


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except an ar 15 wasn't used in newtown and one wasn't used here.  yet of course the media has to drop one was used in both cases to sensationalize and feed the frenzy.  hammers kill more people a year than AR 15's.     and drivers can buy there loaded muscle and sports cars to look badass doing 40 through town.     you guys are of the wall


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


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In regards the law anyone adjudged to be incompetent is barred from purchasing a firearm. That requires a Judge to so rule. In the case of this shooter he admitted to firing a weapon in a blind rage at a vehicle. More then enough to convict him of a felony. He had mental problems that were well known, more then enough coupled with his firearms violations to bring him before a Judge for a competence hearing.

failing those he has a legal right to own and possess firearms. There are HUNDREDS of Millions of legal firearm owners. And you would use emotion to deny them their protected rights.


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## koshergrl (Sep 17, 2013)

I see the lies are already starting. Nobody said he tried to get an AR15. The lying press initially said he used an AR15, and that he was a naval officer. They were lying, and I see that now rw is doing the same.


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

RetiredGySgt said:


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So can a psychologist bring a person to the judge, or does this person have to commit a crime to get before the judge?

I suggested that crazy people shouldn't be allowed to buy guns.  How does that deny legal owners in any way?


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## Spoonman (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOoUVeyaY_8]AA-12 Fully Automatic Shotgun!!! - YouTube[/ame]


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## koshergrl (Sep 17, 2013)

Brain357 said:


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If the cops had followed through, and the naval base security had pulled his file as they said they were going to do when advised by the cops that he was a fruit loop, this wouldnt' have happened.


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## Spoonman (Sep 17, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> I see the lies are already starting. Nobody said he tried to get an AR15. The lying press initially said he used an AR15, and that he was a naval officer. They were lying, and I see that now rw is doing the same.



nothing but lies come from the left.  They are still lying about newton.  They don't bother waiting for verified facts.  it's jump on the latest lie.  even that idiot Feinstein is jumping on the lies.  What kind of leader is that?


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## westwall (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


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And yet the largest mass murder in US history was accomplished with a gallon of gasoline.  I say we ban all fuels, let's go back to the bronze age!  Who's with me!


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## westwall (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


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Totally untrue but a lefty hack like you will spew your BS no matter what...we know.


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## westwall (Sep 17, 2013)

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Wrong.  He would have failed an NCIC check.


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

westwall said:


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Would you support it?


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## westwall (Sep 17, 2013)

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I support background checks on PEOPLE....not weapons.  Every background check scheme the libs have come up with has, as a component, a gun registry.  Take the registry out of it and I'm all for it.  The government has no business knowing what I'm buying.


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

westwall said:


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Glad you seem to be for it.

On another note you mention no registry.  Doesn't not registering guns make it impossible to keep them away from criminals?  Can't I go out and buy a gun and sell it to whoever I want with no background check?  I really don't understand why the law abiding have a problem with registering something dangerous like a gun when it would help keep them from criminals.


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## Spoonman (Sep 17, 2013)

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because registering makes for easy confiscation.  gun grabbers are not trustworthy


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## Brain357 (Sep 17, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


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Not sure if your statement is true, but do you really think the government would need a registry to ban guns?  Couldn't they just send the military door to door and get them?  They couldn't get them all registry or not as some would sneak in from other countries I suppose.  It seems like the crimes that could be stopped with a registry isn't worth being paranoid about a ban.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

tinydancer said:


> Who in hell gave this Washington shooter security clearance? I really want to know.
> 
> It's as crazy as the situation with Major Hassan where everyone and their mother knew Hassan was a crazed radical for years and he kept getting promoted for crying out loud.
> 
> ...



Security clearances are easy to get, they hand secret and below out without any real background check. If you can vote, you can get one.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

RetiredGySgt said:


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He probably got another one when he got his job installing computers.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


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He didn't have an AR-15, all he had was a shotgun that he had to reload every few shots, yet he still managed to shot almost 30 people. Want to tell me again how dangerous AR-15s are compared to shotguns?


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## HereWeGoAgain (Sep 17, 2013)

This guy is a classic example of gangstalking/organized stalking.
Read up on directed energy weapons and their effects.
Guy wasnt nuts. He was harassed until he snapped.


 This shits going on all over the world.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


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Actually, the AR-15 is the least used gun of mass murderers, they usually use pistols.


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## koshergrl (Sep 17, 2013)

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It doesn't keep them from criminals, you loon. That's the point.


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## eflatminor (Sep 17, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Actually, the AR-15 is the least used gun of mass murderers, they usually use pistols.



Hey, stop that!  Facts have no place in the argument.  It's about what _feels _right...


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## Politico (Sep 17, 2013)

This thread left anything current event related a loooong time ago.


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## westwall (Sep 18, 2013)

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No registry on this planet would ever prevent a criminal from obtaining a weapon.  That's why they're called criminals.  Guns aren't dangerous.  It's the PEOPLE using them that are.  Why do you wish to penalize a 100,000,000 people, at minimum, for the illegal behavior of at most 200,000 people?

And no you can't go out and buy a gun and then sell it to someone else.  You have to keep it for at least one year before you sell it and if you do that more than a very few times the ATF will make you get a FFL....if they don't arrest you first for dealing in firearms without a license.


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## westwall (Sep 18, 2013)

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A registry makes it really easy for the government to confiscate them.  I suggest you read The Nazi Seizure of Power by William Sheridan Allen.


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## Snouter (Sep 18, 2013)

Folks, please learn how to use quotes so we have some idea what the fuck you are responding to.  The bottom line is this.  THIS WAS A MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE OR THE HOMOLAND SECURITY IS SO INCOMPETENT if there were any Muslims angry for the war crimes of the USA government, they would be blowing stuff up daily.


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## theHawk (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


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Certainly, if someone has a history of shooting their weapon without cause, not to mention a mental history like this guy had...he should of been locked up or at the very least getting treatment.

I'm all for increasing mental health spending.....cut from welfare first of course.


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## bianco (Sep 18, 2013)

People on welfare need the welfare to survive... and stop going crazy themselves.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 18, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> We have got to start locking up crazy people again:
> 
> "Alarmed by Alexiss behavior--and concerned about possible Naval Base implications--a Newport police sergeant faxed a copy of the departments report to naval station police.  A Navy cop--whose name is redacted from the Newport Police Department  report--advised that they would follow up on this subject and determine  if he is in fact, a naval contractor.
> 
> Washington Gunman Recently Told Cops He Was Being Bombarded By Microwave Signals That Kept Him Awake At Night | The Smoking Gun



Kind of hard to do that when you Wingnuts are slashing the shit out of medical help for poor people.  

Besides being unconstitutional to lock people up against their will, the money isn't there to do it, anyway.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 18, 2013)

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Nice ad hominon attack, guy.  Imply something you have no evidence for when you really don't need to. 

Point was, if you locked him up, he wouldn't have the money to pay for his own incarceration.  Someone else would have to do it.  What, are you some kind of SOCIALIST?


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## Geaux4it (Sep 18, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


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I would rather money go toward locking up criminals than to go to immigration, Obamacare, head start, welfare et al,... Oh, the money is there, it's just our priorities are screwed up

-Geaux


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## Geaux4it (Sep 18, 2013)

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It think it happens when their parents don't force a blue or pink stocking cap at birth. They are taught not to step on bugs or eat anything that has eyes.

Then they register as democrats and the assimilation is complete

-Geaux


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

westwall said:


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How is it really penalizing anyone?  Don't people have guns to protect themselves?  Wouldn't they better protect themselves if fewer criminals have guns?

Since guns aren't registered, how does anyone know how long you have a gun?


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## martybegan (Sep 18, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


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So all prisoners are being held unconsitutionally?  You really are an idiot.


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

theHawk said:


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How long can you really lock someone up if nobody was injured?


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## Geaux4it (Sep 18, 2013)

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As long as a revised law would allow. It needs to be long enough to be a real punishment creating a deterrent

-Geaux


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

koshergrl said:


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Not registering them makes it about as easy as can be for them to get them.


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## Geaux4it (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


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Registration accomplishes nothing

-Geaux


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

westwall said:


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I think the threat of being shot by a crazy or some criminal greatly outweighs any ban.


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

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Couldn't you then track guns and see how they are getting into the hands of criminals?


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## Geaux4it (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


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We already know that. Most are stolen

and

Holder gives them to the cartel

-Geaux


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## Geaux4it (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


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I disagree- Acceptable risk to live in a free country backed by Bill of Rights

-Geaux


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

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You think your more likely to have your gun taken by a Nazi than be shot by a criminal?  I don't think either are that likely, but the nazi thing definitely less likely.


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## Geaux4it (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


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Either way, that is unacceptable risk for me which is why I choose to be armed

-Geaux


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

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So gun owners aren't very responsible and get them stolen all the time?  How do we track who it was stolen from?


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

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Of course it is, your not dead yet right?


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## JoeB131 (Sep 18, 2013)

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We weren't talking about locking up criminals. We were talking about locking up the mentally ill.  Being sick isn't a crime.  

And we spend 900 Billion a year locking up people, more than any country in the world. 

So the question you guys never answer, with 2 million people locked up and 300 million guns in circulation, why don't any of you feel particularly safe?


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## Geaux4it (Sep 18, 2013)

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From police reports reporting the crime. 

-Geaux


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## rightwinger (Sep 18, 2013)

westwall said:


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Yea....but you know?

You don't get the satisfaction with gasoline that you get by squeezing off round after round as your fellow citizens scamper about. If you are going to commit a massacre you have to do it with style. Combat uniform, kick ass looking gun, large capacity magazine

The problem is that our gun owners like to look badass too. So we have to make sure they can look the part when they play Rambo


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## Geaux4it (Sep 18, 2013)

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No, because I'm armed

-Geaux


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

If having the most guns makes you safest we would be the safest country in the world.

If locking up the most criminals made you safest we would still be the safest country in the world:
Prisoners per capita statistics - Countries compared - NationMaster

Neither seems to be working.


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

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So shouldn't the gun owner who got it stolen be held responsible for any crimes committed with that gun?


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## martybegan (Sep 18, 2013)

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So a person whos car is stolen is responsible for the guy plowing into some pedestrians with it?


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## Geaux4it (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> If having the most guns makes you safest we would be the safest country in the world.
> 
> If locking up the most criminals made you safest we would still be the safest country in the world:
> Prisoners per capita statistics - Countries compared - NationMaster
> ...



Lock them up longer

You are 30% less likely to be murdered in the USA than in rest of the world.


-Geaux


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## Geaux4it (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


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LMAO- Of course not. So now the victim is the criminal? Please.... you have to be kidding right?

-Geaux


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

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There are a lot of dead people who were armed.  I believe it actually increases your chances of being shot.
Investigating the Link Between Gun Possession and Gun Assault


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## martybegan (Sep 18, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


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Being mentally ill can be an adjudicated condition, where the person's rights such as freedom of movement and right to bear arms can be suspended until such time as they are no longer a threat to themselves or society. 

They key is that the person has to have thier say in front of a judge.


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

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So they have a gun to protect themselves and their belonging right?  But if they are irresponsible enough to actually get the gun stolen you don't think they should be held responsible?  Amazing.  Clearly guns aren't working for protecting if the guns are being stolen.


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


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And drastically more likely when compared to the developed world.  Any country that is really comparable has a much lower homicide rate.  I guess you'd compare us to an economically and politically stable country like Ethiopia?


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## Geaux4it (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


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Those statistics include gang bangers, criminals being shot by police, so on... Let me get you the information on defensive gun use by law abiding citizens

-Geaux


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## Geaux4it (Sep 18, 2013)

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So it's not the gun that is the root cause? It's the culture?

Interesting

-Geaux


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## Geaux4it (Sep 18, 2013)

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Wait- I think I have heard Obama use 'The rest of the world' in many of his justifications, not just the developed world. 

Your sounding kind of racist here

-Geaux


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## Geaux4it (Sep 18, 2013)

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As promised. Dated but relevant. I will get you updated numbers

-Geaux

https://www.gunowners.org/sk0802htm.htm

* Guns used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year -- or about 6,850 times a day. [1] This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives. [2]

* Of the 2.5 million times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, the overwhelming majority merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8% of the time, a citizen will kill or wound his/her attacker.[3]

* As many as 200,000 women use a gun every year to defend themselves against sexual abuse.[4]

* Even anti-gun Clinton researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense. According to the Clinton Justice Department, there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense every year. The National Institute of Justice published this figure in 1997 as part of "Guns in America" -- a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.[5]

* Armed citizens kill more crooks than do the police. Citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as police do every year (1,527 to 606).[6] And readers of Newsweek learned that "only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The 'error rate' for the police, however, was 11 percent, more than five times as high."[7]


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> Brain357 said:
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And the criminals get their guns from your gun owners.  I guess they are part of the problem.


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## Geaux4it (Sep 18, 2013)

Gun Control - Just Facts (revised 2/11/13)

* Roughly 16,272 murders were committed in the United States during 2008. Of these, about 10,886 or 67% were committed with firearms.[11]

* A 1993 nationwide survey of 4,977 households found that over the previous five years, at least 0.5% of households had members who had used a gun for defense during a situation in which they thought someone "almost certainly would have been killed" if they "had not used a gun for protection." Applied to the U.S. population, this amounts to 162,000 such incidents per year. This figure excludes all "military service, police work, or work as a security guard."[12]

* Based on survey data from the U.S. Department of Justice, roughly 5,340,000 violent crimes were committed in the United States during 2008. These include simple/aggravated assaults, robberies, sexual assaults, rapes, and murders.[13] [14] [15] Of these, about 436,000 or 8% were committed by offenders visibly armed with a gun.[16]

* Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18]

* A 1993 nationwide survey of 4,977 households found that over the previous five years, at least 3.5% of households had members who had used a gun "for self-protection or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere." Applied to the U.S. population, this amounts to 1,029,615 such incidents per year. This figure excludes all "military service, police work, or work as a security guard."[19]

* A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes about 498,000 times per year.[20]

* A 1982 survey of male felons in 11 state prisons dispersed across the U.S. found:[21]

&#8226; 34% had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"
&#8226; 40% had decided not to commit a crime because they "knew or believed that the victim was carrying a gun"
&#8226; 69% personally knew other criminals who had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"[22]


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## KissMy (Sep 18, 2013)

Spoonman said:


> rightwinger said:
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> > tinydancer said:
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It was a total failure of the federal government. He was given government security clearance after he told them he was hearing voices & was being treated by the government VA. So the government deflects blame & points to the NRA & wants to strip civilians of their rights because stripping the CCW rights from people at the Navy yard worked so well.

$30 billion US tax payer dollars flow through that Navy yard every year & they can't protect the people there. They expect us to give up our rights & protection to believe the government can protect us.


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> Geaux4it said:
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Those are stats, but they aren't counter to mine.  It still stands if you and the criminal have a gun your much more likely to be shot.


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## Geaux4it (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Geaux4it said:
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No, why are victims part of the problem? Your killing me here 

-Geaux


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> Brain357 said:
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I'm not an obama fan.

You must think very little of our country to compare it to 3rd world countries.  I think we are the greatest country so I compare us to other successful countries.


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## Geaux4it (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Geaux4it said:
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Brilliant deduction. 

And if he has a knife, I'm more likely to be stabbed.

-Geaux


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## Geaux4it (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Geaux4it said:
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I didn't say you were a Obama fan

-Geaux


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> Brain357 said:
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Well the gun owners are the source for the criminals guns.  Seems like some great circle.  The gun owner has the gun for protection but isn't responsible with gun and loses it to the criminal.  The criminal then robs someone else and the gun owner buys a new gun.  Gun is then stolen from gun owner and used for more crimes....


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## Geaux4it (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


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 A 1982 survey of male felons in 11 state prisons dispersed across the U.S. found:[21]

 34% had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"
 40% had decided not to commit a crime because they "knew or believed that the victim was carrying a gun"
 69% personally knew other criminals who had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"[22]


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> Brain357 said:
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You quoted him which means very little to me.


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> Brain357 said:
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All these stats and the rate of gun ownership makes it sound like we should be the safest place in the world.  Why are we not?  All these stats don't mean much when we are way behind other developed countries.


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## Geaux4it (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


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Illogical....

Lawful gun owners don't 'lose' guns. They are stolen by felons who have escaped serious consequences for previous crimes. In California, many cities have had dramatic increase in crime as a result of Gov Brown releasing felons from prisons early.

That's the problem.. Not law abiding citizens

http://www.kclu.org/2013/08/23/oxna...spike-in-crime-due-to-early-prisoner-release/

Oxnard Police Say Part Of Spike In Crime In City Due To Early Prisoner Release

Oxnard Police officials say a spike in the city&#8217;s crime during the first six months of 2013 is linked to a law which is trying to reduce state prison overcrowding by releasing some offenders early.

The latest FBI crime stats for Oxnard showed a hike in the number of murders, robberies, assaults, and other crimes from January through June.  Assistant Police Chief Scott Whitney says the increases in crime coincide with the enactment of the prison realignment plan.

More than 250 inmates released under the plan live in, or have been spending time in the Oxnard area.  Whitney says it just follows that when chronic offenders spend less time in custody, they have more opportunities to commit crimes.

-Geaux


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## Geaux4it (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Geaux4it said:
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I'll repeat. You are 30% less likely to be murdered in the USA than in rest of the world.

-Geaux


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## Geaux4it (Sep 18, 2013)

This was fun... Have to head to the salt mine.. See you tomorrow 

-Geaux


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## KissMy (Sep 18, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> In California, many cities have had dramatic increase in crime as a result of Gov Brown releasing felons from prisons early.
> 
> That's the problem.. Not law abiding citizens  -Geaux



I'm surprised the government didn't give all those ex-cons a security clearance. They gave one to Aaron Alexis after he told them he was "hearing voices".


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## Lonestar_logic (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Geaux4it said:
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Why do you hate the 2nd Amendment?

If you're too much of a sissy to handle a gun or you're afraid of guns, then don't get one.


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 18, 2013)

Lonestar_logic said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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the poster should also stay out of gun free zones 

since this where mass shootings are happening


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> Brain357 said:
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And compared to developed countries our homicide rate is drastically higher, we have way more guns, and way more people in jail.


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

Lonestar_logic said:


> Brain357 said:
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I think the sissies are the paranoid gun owners who seem to be scared of everything.


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## martybegan (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


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Having way more people in Jail shows why law abiding citizens need access to firearms. We evidently have a bigger population of criminal assholes than other countries.


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
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Do people own a car with the purpose of it stopping someone from stealing their stuff?


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
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That holder thing was really dumb.  Surprised he still has job.

Do you have stats to support where they get guns?


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
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Are you paranoid and scared?


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## Lonestar_logic (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
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Trust me, I'm not scared of anything or anyone.


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

Lonestar_logic said:


> Brain357 said:
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But are you paranoid?


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## rightwinger (Sep 18, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
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I have a big stick with a nail in it

Nobody messes with me


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
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Nope, most the gun owners I know are fine with the common sense laws being suggested.  The weird paranoid ones seem to have the problem.


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
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Guess we new to register guns so we can track them.


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## KissMy (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Geaux4it said:
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Our high homicide rates are a cultural social problem. Gun crime dropped in the USA as the number of guns increase.


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> ```
> 
> ```
> 
> ...



I'm not scared to go out without a gun.  Been doing it whole life actually.


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

KissMy said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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> > Geaux4it said:
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What do you suggest we do to catch up to the developed world?  Get rid of some of our income inequality maybe?  Republicans won't do anything about that either.


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## martybegan (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
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Jack be nimble, Jack be quick
Jack see mugger, Jack give kick
Jack show daring, Jack show skill
Jack shown bullet quicker still.


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## Lonestar_logic (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
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> > Brain357 said:
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Nope. I'm not paranoid. I'm realistically cautious. Having already used my gun to thwart crimes I understand the necessity to be ready, willing and able to defend myself and others whenever and wherever the need arises.


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## Lonestar_logic (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
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> > Brain357 said:
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How much good would that do you in a crowded movie theater, a fast food joint or in line at the bank?


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## Lonestar_logic (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
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What idiots like you don't understand is that criminals do not obey the laws common sense or otherwise. 

That's why we call them criminals!

You libs are the dumbest bunch I have ever seen.


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## rightwinger (Sep 18, 2013)

Lonestar_logic said:


> rightwinger said:
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It will give you a nasty infection


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## Lonestar_logic (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
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You wouldn't get within five feet before you are shot dead.


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## rightwinger (Sep 18, 2013)

Lonestar_logic said:


> rightwinger said:
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Nobody has messed with me yet

It is also effective for hunting


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

Lonestar_logic said:


> Brain357 said:
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Ah name calling. So adult.

I guess nothing should be illegal because criminals don't obey laws.  Yes very smart.


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## Katzndogz (Sep 18, 2013)

tinydancer said:


> Who in hell gave this Washington shooter security clearance? I really want to know.
> 
> It's as crazy as the situation with Major Hassan where everyone and their mother knew Hassan was a crazed radical for years and he kept getting promoted for crying out loud.
> 
> ...



The system would rather have dead people than offend a minority.


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## Lonestar_logic (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
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Go sharpen your crayons.


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## Lonestar_logic (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
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Are you saying Obama isn't an adult?

Please stay focused on the topic and keep my comments in context.  I understand how hard it will be for you but do try.


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

Lonestar_logic said:


> Brain357 said:
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Try to have an adult debate without childish name calling.  Clearly you have a problem with that.


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## koshergrl (Sep 18, 2013)

Some people deserve to be called names because the name accurately describes them.


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## koshergrl (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Geaux4it said:
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That is fucking ridiculous. That's like saying Walmart is responsible for abduction and rape because they sell duct tape. Or that people who are mugged are responsible for the drug problem, because their money is used to purchase drugs. I've noticed a disturbing trend at usmb...the collective intelligence has dropped SIGNIFICANTLY in the last year or so. I think the reasonable people have given up.


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> Some people deserve to be called names because the name accurately describes them.



Maybe if your 12 years old.


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## Lonestar_logic (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
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You've lost this debate a long time ago.


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## Lonestar_logic (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> koshergrl said:
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> > Some people deserve to be called names because the name accurately describes them.
> ...



Oh that was a real mature response!


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

Lonestar_logic said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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> > koshergrl said:
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And true.


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## NoNukes (Sep 18, 2013)

Lonestar_logic said:


> Brain357 said:
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> > Pauli007001 said:
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With you living in Texas, I doubt that last statement is true.


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## koshergrl (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Some people deserve to be called names because the name accurately describes them.
> ...



It's "you're", ding dong. And like most progressives, I see you're big on criticizing others for behavior you engage in regularly.


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## Lonestar_logic (Sep 18, 2013)

NoNukes said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
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It's absolutely true.


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> Brain357 said:
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When you grow up you'll understand.


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## Uncensored2008 (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> I mean......does anyone really care?
> 
> People are going to get killed. Who cares as long as we are not inconvenienced when we buy our guns?



I realize that you're just a troll and a hack, but do you imagine there was ever a victim who lay dying, thinking "Thank god I was stabbed, and not killed with a gun." 

I mean, is this REALLY what you of the anti-liberty left think?


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## Uncensored2008 (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> I love the second amendment
> 
> It allows Americans to go out and buy any weapon they choose when they feel like shooting up a Navy Base, school, movie theater or mall
> Look, massacres are not easy.....you need the proper weapons



I love lying trolls, you just post shit with no regard at all for facts.

Yo stupid, how many guns did Alexis have when he went to the base? And tell us, you lying pile of shit, how many were killed with the shotgun Alexis had?


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## rightwinger (Sep 18, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > I love the second amendment
> ...



Alexis can have as many guns as he wishes...It is his right as an American

He thought he could do the job with one gun and did a pretty good job. If he wanted more firepower he could have done alot more damage......and the NRA would have defended him


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## Spoonman (Sep 18, 2013)

listening to the liberal logic here it sounds like if you are running with a pencil after your mother told you not to, and you trip and poke your eye out, you should be able to hold the pencil maker responsible.


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## Spoonman (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
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well if security had done its job, he never would have been working there  for one.  and secondly, he never would have gotten past the check point.  not with one gun or ten guns


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## rightwinger (Sep 18, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > I mean......does anyone really care?
> ...



But knives are so......messy

A nice semi-auto with a large magazine makes the job so much easier. Just pull the trigger and watch their heads explode. Our second amendment defends the rights of a mass murderer to pick the weapon of his choice.....why pick a knife?


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## rightwinger (Sep 18, 2013)

Spoonman said:


> rightwinger said:
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No biggie....he could have just done his massacre elsewhere


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
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Knives are easier to run from.


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## Spoonman (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



sure, he could have just plowed down people with a car too.


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## Lonestar_logic (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
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Typical liberal solution.  Run


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## rightwinger (Sep 18, 2013)

Spoonman said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
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Yea...a car is always a good option but it is over in an instant

With his trusty shotgun Alexis was able to keep going for 30 minutes. If you are going to conduct a massacre, you want more bang for the buck. Nothing beats a good firearm

Know what I mean?


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## Spoonman (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


 if i was going to take out a crowd i'd rather go all blues brothers in a mall on them.  no challenge in shooting them.


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## Uncensored2008 (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Alexis can have as many guns as he wishes...It is his right as an American



Outright lies and stupidity..

Are you Barack Obama?



> He thought he could do the job with one gun and did a pretty good job.



Really, you lying fuck? 

Because I read that he only killed one person with the Shotgun - which he purchased WITH A BACKGROUND CHECK. You Communists say that background checks will stop these kind of shootings - so why didn't it?



> If he wanted more firepower he could have done alot more damage......and the NRA would have defended him



He had all the fire power he could handle, by picking up weapons at the base.

But keep lying, it's what you leftists do.


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## koshergrl (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


 
Yes, that's what we call "prevention", or a "DETERRENT". See how it works? You provide reasonable protection measures and...gasp...people aren't quite so interested in going to those places and playing shootem up!

Imagine what it would be like if all our schools and military facilities didn't disarm all the innocents before corralling them for slaughter!


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## eflatminor (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> If you are going to conduct a massacre, you want more bang for the buck. Nothing beats a good firearm
> 
> Know what I mean?



If you are going to stop a massacre, nothing beats a good firearm.  Yet, these 'gun free zones' and other regulations only serve to lengthen the amount of time it takes to get armed good guys in place to stop the bad guy.  No why in the hell would anyone support that?

Know what I mean?


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## NoNukes (Sep 18, 2013)

Lonestar_logic said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> > Lonestar_logic said:
> ...



Thank you for proving my point.


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## Uncensored2008 (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Yea...a car is always a good option but it is over in an instant
> 
> With his trusty shotgun Alexis was able to keep going for 30 minutes. If you are going to conduct a massacre, you want more bang for the buck. Nothing beats a good firearm
> 
> Know what I mean?



It turns out that an AR-15 WAS used  - to stop Aaron Alexis.....

Hey, you tried to lie about everything, but a hint of truth snuck in...


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## rightwinger (Sep 18, 2013)

eflatminor said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > If you are going to conduct a massacre, you want more bang for the buck. Nothing beats a good firearm
> ...



Preaching to the choir brother...

The only answer to too many guns is.....more guns
This country took a turn for the worse when we deviated from the Dodge City model. Hand out the guns and let the people shoot it out. Let the Police come in and clean up the blood


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## rightwinger (Sep 18, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Yea...a car is always a good option but it is over in an instant
> ...



Your point?

That police armed with AR-15s is a good thing..... as is making sure Alexis could only buy a shotgun and not the AR-15 he wanted?


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## koshergrl (Sep 18, 2013)

The problem isn't too many guns.

It's too many progressive-sponsored lunatics walking around after they've shown themselves to be a threat to themselves and others.

This guy should have been locked up a long time ago. But progressives don't want to lock up crazy criminals. They want to lock up their victims instead.


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## eflatminor (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



No need for more guns, just the removal of well intentioned but illogical laws that prevent people from effectively protecting themselves.



> This country took a turn for the worse when we deviated from the Dodge City model.



Actually, the so called "Wild West" was far less violent than certain parts of Chicago and other cities today:

Dispelling the myth of 'The Wild West' - Minneapolis gun rights | Examiner.com

Once again, the meddlers have caused more harm than good.



> Hand out the guns and let the people shoot it out. Let the Police come in and clean up the blood



Someone has called for "handing out guns".  I would disagree with that approach but perhaps you could share a link...


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 18, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > We have got to start locking up crazy people again:
> ...



This has nothing to do with Obamacare, Medicare, or any other care, it has to do with how society deals with crazy people.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
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How would criminals not having guns helped, the guy wasn't a criminal.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
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How would registering them make it harder?


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## Uncensored2008 (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Your point?



That you are a shameless liar, a demagogue, and entirely reprehensible..

The direct point is that you lied and claimed Alexis used an AR-15, which he didn't. BUT the police did, to stop him. So rather than the "evil assault weapon" wreaking havok, we actually see that the rifle STOPPED the killing of innocents.



> That police armed with AR-15s is a good thing..... as is making sure Alexis could only buy a shotgun and not the AR-15 he wanted?



You DO grasp that the guns that Alexis killed 11 out of 12 people with were taken off of the police, right Herr Goebbels?


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Exactly the point we are making, self defense trumps the laws making it illegal to won a gun.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
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You want to put tracking ships in guns?


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## Uncensored2008 (Sep 18, 2013)

eflatminor said:


> Someone has called for "handing out guns".  I would disagree with that approach but perhaps you could share a link...



I was at a gun range last weekend.

There were 200+ people with guns - including dozens of really scary AR-15 style guns with deadly plastic on them.

But the funny thing is, no one started shooting each other. None of the guns got up and went on a rampage, not even the ones with that scary plastic on them.

Everyone had one or more guns, but not a single shooting. HOW is this possible? Guns force people to shoot others, or so the leftists keep saying.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
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> > Brain357 said:
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Is being the victim of a crime a crime?


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> westwall said:
> 
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Pyromaniacs get off on the gasoline, yet I haven't seen a single argument from you that we should limit access to gasoline because there are crazy people that get off on it. Is the real problem here that you get off on guns?


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> If having the most guns makes you safest we would be the safest country in the world.
> 
> If locking up the most criminals made you safest we would still be the safest country in the world:
> Prisoners per capita statistics - Countries compared - NationMaster
> ...



If you think you can actually think, prove it.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/gener...nning-firearms-reduce-murder-and-suicide.html


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Geaux4it said:
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> > Brain357 said:
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Should you be allowed to procreate?


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## koshergrl (Sep 18, 2013)

So what have we learned?

We have learned that gun control laws do not function as a deterrent...our criminal in this case was faced with the strictest gun control laws in the country, and he went on a killing rampage ANYWAY...

In a place full of law-abiding military men and women, who were unarmed thanks to the moronic gun control restrictions that are IDIOTICALLY in place in our military facilities. 

In other words, gun control is proven (yet again) to make it easier for whackos to kill innocent and law abiding people.

"
Emily Miller of the Washington Times dispensed with law-enforcement sources and spoke directly to the store that sold Alexis the shotgun. She found that the shooter passed two background checks and bought a shotgun with a small amount of ammunition, but never attempted to purchase an AR-15, or any kind of rifle or pistol either:
Aaron Alexis passed Federal Bureau Investigation and Virginia state background checks to purchase a shotgun from Sharpshooters Small Arms Range in Lorton, Va., over the weekend.
Alexis did not attempt to purchase a rifle or handgun from the store, The Washington Times has learned exclusively."

"
Apparently neither the reporter nor his editors took the time to fact check their vague &#8220;law enforcement officials&#8221; sources.
&#8220;Virginia law does not prohibit the sale of assault rifles to out-of-state citizens who have proper identification,&#8221; Dan Peterson, a Virginia firearms attorney, told me Tuesday night. The required identification is proof of residency in another state and of U.S. citizenship, which can be items like a passport, birth certificate or voter identification card."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/18/u...man-from-buying-rifle-officials-say.html?_r=2&

MILLER: New York Times gets it wrong, media obsessed with linking AR-15 with Navy Yard shooter - Washington Times​Did the Navy Yard shooter try to buy an AR-15? « Hot Air


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## Uncensored2008 (Sep 18, 2013)




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## R.C. Christian (Sep 18, 2013)

Gun grabbers can go suck on Piers Morgan's Organ.


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
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You'd track it back to the last legal owner and find out how it got into criminal hands.


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## koshergrl (Sep 18, 2013)

Lol.

Generally, they get into criminal hands when they are stolen or sold.

There. I helped you. We didn't need a government program and we didn't have to spend billions of dollars to establish yet another retarded and unnecessary beaurocratic nightmare.


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

I think we have learned that we have a very serious problem.  And despite having far more guns than any other country, the crazy right thinks the only solution is more guns.


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## koshergrl (Sep 18, 2013)

We know what our problem is.

Progressive policies that reward criminals and crazy people, and set up innocent and law abiding citizens for annihilation at their hands.


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## eflatminor (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> And despite having far more guns than any other country, the crazy right thinks the only solution is more guns.



You guys keep saying that when NO ONE is advocating that.  There are plenty of guns out there.  We're not saying we need more guns, we're saying your well intended but illogical laws are preventing good people from effectively defending themselves.  Please stop lying.


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## eflatminor (Sep 18, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Pyromaniacs get off on the gasoline, yet I haven't seen a single argument from you that we should limit access to gasoline because there are crazy people that get off on it.



Oh shit...don't give the any ideas!


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## Spoonman (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
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stolen, missing piece of evidence, smuggled into the country.  misplaced piece of eric holder's fast and furious.  good luck with that one


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## rightwinger (Sep 18, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Your point?
> ...



link to where I said Alexis used an AR-15....I didn't


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

eflatminor said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > And despite having far more guns than any other country, the crazy right thinks the only solution is more guns.
> ...



Throw out the first thing you would do so we can discuss.


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## R.C. Christian (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> I think we have learned that we have a very serious problem.  And despite having far more guns than any other country, the crazy right thinks the only solution is more guns.



We're just saving up so we can force leftists like you at gunpoint into FEMA trailer or some reeducation camp when this place finally goes tits up.


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## Spoonman (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> I think we have learned that we have a very serious problem.  And despite having far more guns than any other country, the crazy right thinks the only solution is more guns.



what we know is that tough gun control laws put in place by any country have not reduced gun violence by a higher rate than the USA has seen since Clintons assault weapons ban was dropped.  that is a fact


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

Spoonman said:


> Brain357 said:
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If its missing evidence we know evidence needs to be made more secure.  Not knowing we can't improve anything.


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## R.C. Christian (Sep 18, 2013)

Spoonman said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > I think we have learned that we have a very serious problem.  And despite having far more guns than any other country, the crazy right thinks the only solution is more guns.
> ...



I love my assault weapons. Never leave home without one in the trunk.


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## Lonestar_logic (Sep 18, 2013)

R.C. Christian said:


> Spoonman said:
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Not very easy access.


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## rightwinger (Sep 18, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> rightwinger said:
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You don't see me arguing that we should limit access to guns either

After seeing 20 first graders and 7 of their teachers get massacred and have our country do absolutely nothing about it, I have conceded that there is nothing to be done. Our nation is too entralled with its second amendment to try to do anything about guns and our gun culture.

We, as a nation have accepted that we are willing to accept a horrendous murder rate along with assasinations and massacres.....all so that we can maintain our second amendment.

So when a dozen of our citizens get gunned down the best I can offer is ....too bad for them, but thats the way it is


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
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Horrendous? 4.7 per 100000 is horrendous? I guess you think the deaths over over 100000 a year due to doctor neglect is something we should do something about but you are just to busy whining about firearms to say anything, right?


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

RetiredGySgt said:


> rightwinger said:
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It seems pretty bad when Germany is .8.


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


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What another Country has is no concern. Our rights are not going to be infringed cause you like Germany more. The rate of murder is so small as to be insignificant for the population.


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Brain357 said:
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Sure it's just almost 4 lives.  Who cares.  You must be pro life.


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## Spoonman (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Spoonman said:
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we already know evidence goes missing, but are we doing anything to fix the problem? no.  so what is going to change?  come up with some solutions to the existing problems first ok, before you continue to try to tread on my rights.   because i have to tell you, with all of your bullshit up to this point, right now you are getting nothing.  we aren't willing to budge at all


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## eflatminor (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> eflatminor said:
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Easy:


*Remove the legal, bureaucratic and other feel-good rules that impede people from effectively defending themselves* against the crazies and thugs that couldn't give two shits about your rules.  That means no more 'gun free zones', no more waiting periods, no more 'may issue' conceal carry permits, no more limiting the types of firearms, ammunition and accessories law abiding citizens can own.  It means what the second amendment says:  "Shall not be infringed".     
*Increasing sentencing for VIOLENT offenders.*  Make using a firearm in the commission of a crime all the more punishable, that's fine too.  In order to free up prison space, I would also advocate we stop persecuting consensual activity between adults, which represents the 'crimes' of the vast majority of inmates...but that's another topic.  
*Put more cops on the streets*.  It's the one thing that that is proven to reduce violent crime.
*Make it easier to detain individuals that have demonstrated mental instability.*  Admittedly, that one treads perilously close to stepping on civil liberties and you can be sure the ACLU would be all over it.  Nevertheless, as we have seen from so many of the mass killing crazies, they provided amble evidence of mental imbalance well prior to murdering innocents.


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## Spoonman (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
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speaking of pro life, have you found a way to stop the deaths of millions of babies every year?  if you are whining about the number of deaths, go for the real big numbers.  and they are all innocent victims. half of the gun deaths aren't innocent victims, they are casualties of the trade


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

Spoonman said:


> Brain357 said:
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And we seem to have more and more shootings.  You're quite the hero.


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

Spoonman said:


> Brain357 said:
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I'm anti abortion if that's what your asking.  But my pro life stance includes people after birth also.


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## Spoonman (Sep 18, 2013)

eflatminor said:


> Brain357 said:
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all sensible solutions the left has continually turned their back on claiming it leads to racial profiling and violates peoples civil rights. they say we can't afford more cops.  So, the people are supposed to submit to being victims?  wtf?


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## eflatminor (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


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Why are you cherry picking?  The USA, despite having the most firearms per capita, doesn't make the top 100 list of countries by intentional homicide rate.  And most of those countries with worse murder rates than ours have a near total ban on civilian owned firearms.  The facts do not support your agenda.

Further, if you removed from the US stats the few neighborhoods in which the majority of murders takes place due to gang violence, our murder rates would be akin to your precious Germany...despite all the firearms!  The point is, it's PEOPLE that murder, not guns.


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## rightwinger (Sep 18, 2013)

RetiredGySgt said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
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> > Quantum Windbag said:
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I guess you are right 4.7 is not too bad

Especially when Japan is 0.4, Canada is 1.6, England is 1.2, Italy is 0.9, France is 1.1

We should be glad. We have our second amendment, we have 300 million guns and only  4.7 per 100,000 get murdered

I can live with it as long as we have our second amendment


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
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And until you grow the balls to try and take that right away you will have to live with it. You have already admitted you don't have the balls to push for a new amendment. So quit your whining and crying and stfu, ok?


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## Lonestar_logic (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
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Then move to one of those countries and leave Americans alone.

Oh and what you are too stupid to understand is that the countries you listed do not count homicides the way we do. Most of them don't count a murder as a homicide unless there's a conviction. And some countries list suicides as homicides.

So the stats aren't comparable. But as I said, you're too stupid to understand.


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## Spoonman (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
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yea, but canada, england, japan all had rates in the same general area prior to their strict gun laws.  so the strict gun laws really aren't responsible for the rates.  in fact the rates in the usa have dropped by the same percentage since clintons assault weapons ban was revoked.


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## eflatminor (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> And we seem to have more and more shootings.



How about we rely on facts instead of what 'seems' to be the case?

Mass killings are on the decline in America.  Grant Duwe, a criminologist with the Minnesota Department of Corrections, wrote a history of mass murders in America.  He found that while mass shootings rose between the 1960s and the 1990s, they actually dropped in the 2000s. And mass killings actually reached their peak in 1929, according to his data. He estimates that there were 32 in the 1980s, 42 in the 1990s and 26 in the first decade of the century.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/criminologist-says-mass-shootings-show-no-pattern-or-increase/1266381

Once again, the facts do not support your agenda.


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

eflatminor said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > eflatminor said:
> ...



1. The more guns option.  Don't see this making much of a difference.  Anyone who wants a gun already has 10.  No gun free zones would have ment this shooter wouldn't have to sneak his gun in.  Will you force every company to allow guns.  Otherwise there will still be lots of gun free zones.

2. Sounds fine, but practical?  Our jails are full.  We jail more per capita than any other country already.  

3.  I like it, but can we afford it?  Wonder how the number of cops we have compares to other countries?

4.  Sounds ok at first.  Will non crazies find themselves locked up for political reasons? Seems ripe for abuse.  Also infringes on a much more important right.


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## Spoonman (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
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actually we have less and less.  but the media and the current administration don't want you to believe that.


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## Spoonman (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
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1  in the last decade the number of guns has almost doubled.  the number of homicides by guns has decreased about a third.   more guns has absolutely resulted in less deaths.  

2   so the problem is we have more criminals in the usa then anywhere else.  so guns really arn't the problem, the number of criminals are

3.  if we have so many criminals, as you state, we obviously need more cops.  or perhaps, due to political correctness our penal system is too lax.  these other countries with less people in jail have real jails, not country clubs.  bring back chain gangs and real hard time

4. you can't have it both ways, and you have just identified one of our major issues with background checks.  its ripe for abuse. and our government has shown a penchant for abuse


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## eflatminor (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
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There you go lying again.  Nothing in my #1 point calls for more guns, only the removal of impediments that prevent people from defending themselves.  Please, stop lying.  It doesn't help your case.



> No gun free zones would have ment this shooter wouldn't have to sneak his gun in.



And how'd that gun free zone thing work out?  About the same as at the Colorado theater, Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech and all the other places where maniacs choose to murder innocents?  

What you obtusely choose to overlook is that my first suggestion would have also meant that the people could have had the means to defend themselves rather than cowering in the corner waiting for a good guy with a gun to arrive and save their ass.  



> Will you force every company to allow guns.  Otherwise there will still be lots of gun free zones.



If business owners are forced to serve everyone and anyone that walks through their doors, even if that means violating the tenants of their religion, then you sure as shit can't make a case that a person should be refused service based on a right codified in the Bill of Rights.

You want to return to the days of strict private property rights?  Then fine, I'm all for allowing businesses to define who and what can be brought on to their property.  But you can't have it both ways. 



> 2. Sounds fine, but practical?  Our jails are full.  We jail more per capita than any other country already.



Stop being obtuse.  I CLEARLY stated that we should not imprison people for consensual activity between adults, which would free up the vast majority of jail space and resources.  Further, we spend ungodly amounts of money on violent recidivist criminals, far more than if we would have locked them up long term instead of releasing them time and time again only to be recaptured, retried, re-sentenced and reincarnated.  Stop the cycle and we'd save significant resources...and lives.



> 3.  I like it, but can we afford it?  Wonder how the number of cops we have compares to other countries?



You seem to have no problem with the cost of implementing vast bureaucracies to restrict second amendment rights.  Now you have a fiscal issue?  Please.  The money could be easily found with common sense prioritization.



> 4.  Sounds ok at first.  Will non crazies find themselves locked up for political reasons? Seems ripe for abuse.  Also infringes on a much more important right.



Like I said, that's not an easy one, but clearly, we need to reevaluate when a person's mental illness makes him a danger to others and worthy of detainment.  You have no problem stamping all over second amendment rights, but other rights are sacrosanct?  How about a little consistency?


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## Uncensored2008 (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
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http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...-yard-shoots-at-least-7-a-48.html#post7848211


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## westwall (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
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Read the book then get back to us.  You are too ignorant and an uninformed opinion is pretty useless.  get informed.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
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> > Brain357 said:
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Do you want to do the same thing with computers? What if they are used for child porn? Does your brain work, or do you just use it for a username?


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## westwall (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> westwall said:
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The people of Wurzburg thought that too, till the NAZI's came in and started rounding folks up.  Now, where did that lead????


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> I think we have learned that we have a very serious problem.  And despite having far more guns than any other country, the crazy right thinks the only solution is more guns.



No, I think the solution is not attacking innocent people.

Weird, I know, but that is the way I think.


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## Uncensored2008 (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> You don't see me arguing that we should limit access to guns either
> 
> After seeing 20 first graders and 7 of their teachers get massacred and have our country do absolutely nothing about it, I have conceded that there is nothing to be done. Our nation is too entralled with its second amendment to try to do anything about guns and our gun culture.
> 
> ...



Look, you're a demagogue and lack even a hint of integrity, but would you explain to the class what the #1 weapon used in homicides is? And if that weapon is not rifles, or hand guns, or any sort of firearm; will you explain why you, and the hate sites that do your thinking for you, do not campaign for the outlaw of those weapons that ARE responsible for most homicides?


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
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It doesn't if you look at the whole picture.


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## westwall (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
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80% of all homicides are gang related.  If you're in a gang you have a good chance of getting shot.  If you're a normal person your chances of dying in a car crash are significantly greater....or dying from medical malpractice...  WAAAAYYY more probable to die from that than from any form of gun violence...


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## Uncensored2008 (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> And we seem to have more and more shootings.  You're quite the hero.



No, we sure don't. Shootings, like all murder, is at an all time LOW, and continues to decline.

It doesn't stop the hate sites that fill the vacuum of your cranium with bullshit - because the agenda of the left is to crush civil rights, not to lower the homicide rate.


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## rightwinger (Sep 18, 2013)

RetiredGySgt said:


> rightwinger said:
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Actually, I no longer care

We can't pass simple gun legislation, no way can we touch the second amendment. Might as well accept an outrageous murder rate, assassinations and massacres. It is part of what makes us Americans.


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## Uncensored2008 (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> I guess you are right 4.7 is not too bad
> 
> Especially when Japan is 0.4, Canada is 1.6, England is 1.2, Italy is 0.9, France is 1.1
> 
> ...



Is that rate higher, or lower than it was 50 years ago, Herr Goebbels?


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
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http://www.usmessageboard.com/gener...nning-firearms-reduce-murder-and-suicide.html


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## westwall (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> westwall said:
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The problem with you is you're a hysterical little girl.  I understand that freedom scares the shit out of you.  I understand that uncle Obama is going to take care of you... I understand that you are incapable of taking care of yourself.  It's OK.  We free people though... we DO take care of ourselves and we despise you whiney little girls who want to punish us for the criminal misdeeds of a very, small minority of the population.

Let's put it in a form you can understand.  Since welfare and medicare fraud is rampant we should shut it all down.  No one gets nothing.  How does that sound?  Fair?


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## rightwinger (Sep 18, 2013)

Lonestar_logic said:


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NRA bullshit propaganda. But if it makes you feel safer ...go with it


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## rightwinger (Sep 18, 2013)

westwall said:


> Brain357 said:
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Not true

Most homicides are by someone you know.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


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You know longer care, but you are still whinging about it. 

Isn't there a word for that?


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## rightwinger (Sep 18, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > You don't see me arguing that we should limit access to guns either
> ...



Two thirds are by gun

Next question?


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## Spoonman (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
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as opposed to the gun grabber bullshit?


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## rightwinger (Sep 18, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
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> > I guess you are right 4.7 is not too bad
> ...



Does it matter when we have a murder rate three times that which we consider the "civilized" world?


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
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In the last year where statistics are available only 400 murders were with ANY TYPE of rifle. INCLUDING the supposed Assault rifle variant.


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## testarosa (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
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^

I don't think what you said there is about guns but more about the breakdown of US society that we are witnessing.


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## testarosa (Sep 18, 2013)

Remember Toupac?  That is the top 40 Twitter society we live in.

We are a dying breed.

Mark my words.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
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Does it matter than you keep lying?


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## rightwinger (Sep 18, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> rightwinger said:
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Name your "lie" and we can discuss


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## rightwinger (Sep 18, 2013)

testarosa said:


> rightwinger said:
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I agree

It is about our society. We have 300 million guns for 300 million people. Suffer from depression?  A gun is handy. Pissed off at your wife?  A gun is handy. Fighting with your neighbor?  A gun is handy. Want to rob, rape or murder?  A gun is handy

This is the United States. We love our guns and are not going to give them up. We have a second amendment and a strong lobby to protect it

We have to suffer a murder rate three times that of other countries?  It is worth it. We suffer an occasional massacre?  We can live with it

We are the United States and we love our guns


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## testarosa (Sep 18, 2013)

And the beat goes on.... Da da dum da dum da da.


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## testarosa (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> testarosa said:
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Oh Hi!

I don't believe that for a second.

It is ALL about our society.  A gun is something to pin it on.


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## testarosa (Sep 18, 2013)

What is it really that's going on here?

Looking back 50 years, a Pew Research Center study found U.S. gun homicides rose in the 1960s, gained in the 1970s, peaked in the 1980s and the early 1990s, and then plunged and leveled out the past 20 years.

"Despite national attention to the issue of firearm violence, most Americans are unaware that gun crime is lower today than it was two decades ago," the researchers say.


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## rightwinger (Sep 18, 2013)

testarosa said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > testarosa said:
> ...



So...guns have nothing to do with it

Our society is evil while that of Japan, England, France, Germany and Canada are morally superior

Guns are everywhere and make a handy "tool" to act out your aggression


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## AyeCantSeeYou (Sep 18, 2013)

Guns aren't the problem; guns can't fire by themselves. 

We live in a 'throw away' society these days. Not many people have respect for others or themselves. Not many people take care of their possessions. People would rather throw something out the door than take care of it, whether it's another life or an object. People turn their heads when they see or hear someone doing something that would put others in danger.


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## testarosa (Sep 18, 2013)

Media. Twitter. Top 40.  

This really doesn't have anything to do with guns.

Unfortunately/Fortunately, I am of a different generation and have my finger on the pulse of this next one. 

Jump on Twitter sometime - see what that's like to be Current.

New generation, baby. 

Here's a gun snip.

Since Tupac's demise, however, gangsta rap has gone down in popularity; rap songs about guns, however, still are alive and well to this day.
Read more: http://www.mademan.com/mm/10-rap-songs-about-guns.html#ixzz2fI1LvHQu"Home Invasion" by Ice-T. The violent underpinnings of this title track from T's 1993 album of the same name hint toward an armed robbery of a house. Little do the residents know, the group of black men are breaking in to take the kids away from their white supremacist parents so as to avoid their indoctrination.
"Trapped" by Tupac Shakur. This beautiful piece is one of the best rap songs about guns. A police officer harasses Pac, his partner even going so far as to shoot at him. Shakur shoots back, is eventually cornered, and says he'd rather die than "be trapped in the living hell".
"It's On" by Ice-T. The second track by Ice-T to appear on this list of the best rap songs about guns, "It's On" features weapons and much more. T is not to be messed with, and it looks like Charlton Heston might have pissed off the wrong man.
"Who Shot Ya?" by the Notorious B.I.G. Biggie made this track come alive in 1995, a year before Tupac's death. Some, such as the late Pac, always thought this (out of all the rap songs about guns) was a diss to him. B.I.G. publicly denied the single having anything to do with Shakur's first shooting.
"How to Rob" by 50 Cent. Aside from being the first single released by the up-and-coming Fiddy in 1999, "How to Rob" was one of the rap songs about guns from its day. In it, 50 Cent released a swarm of insults headed to various artists, including Wu-Tang Clan.
"Mother Fu**in D" by Schooly D. "But I tell ya know, ya better bring ya gun" spat the notorious, long-time rapper/songwriter. Schoolly D's tracks are too good to be true; not to mention he sings the Aqua Teen theme song.
"Straight Out of Compton" by the N.W.A. One of the quintessential Gangsta rap tracks of all time, "Straight out of Compton" was released on the album that shares its same namesake in 1988. Rap songs about guns are often cliche, albeit not this one. Both West and East Coast groups have looked to N.W.A. to set the trend for gangsta rap, and they have.
"Do My Thang" by Lil Wayne featuring Juelz Santana. If anyone knows how to "hit 'em with da glock" it's Lil Wayne. Weezy, who had to serve a year for weapon charges, knows how to make the best rap songs about guns.
"Gun Will Go" by Wu-Tang Clan. Wu-Tang was one of the original pioneers of rapping about guns, the ghetto life, and violence in inner-city streets. "Wu-Tang", as such, has become influential as a hardcore East-Coast hip hop group. Their song "Gun Will Go" features Method Man, so you know its good.
So whether it's Weezy or the N.W.A., you can bet that these rap songs about guns are good. Gangsta rap, in general, is an excellent social tool that helps us understand the ever-poorer American underclass.


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## westwall (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...









Yes, gangsters know each other quite well.  As usual your facts don't jibe with reality.  How about addressing the welfare and medicare shutdown I posited.  Seems to me that your methods would work quite well there.  Just shut everyone off and the country will get out of debt real soon.

How about it.  I'll give up my guns if you give up those two programs...  Sound fair?


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## testarosa (Sep 18, 2013)

The gun arguments aren't even from this decade or the last one.

Mark my words.

And yepper.

I'm keeping my guns, thank you very much.


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 18, 2013)

testarosa said:


> What is it really that's going on here?
> 
> Looking back 50 years, a Pew Research Center study found U.S. gun homicides rose in the 1960s, gained in the 1970s, peaked in the 1980s and the early 1990s, and then plunged and leveled out the past 20 years.
> 
> "Despite national attention to the issue of firearm violence, most Americans are unaware that gun crime is lower today than it was two decades ago," the researchers say.



without missing a beat the leftist anti gunners in the media 

pass off the shotgun as an ar-15


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## testarosa (Sep 18, 2013)

AyeCantSeeYou said:


> Guns aren't the problem; guns can't fire by themselves.
> 
> We live in a 'throw away' society these days. Not many people have respect for others or themselves. Not many people take care of their possessions. People would rather throw something out the door than take care of it, whether it's another life or an object. People turn their heads when they see or hear someone doing something that would put others in danger.



Yep.

It's a complete utter moral breakdown.

This isn't about guns.

It's about something else entirely.


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## testarosa (Sep 18, 2013)

jon_berzerk said:


> testarosa said:
> 
> 
> > What is it really that's going on here?
> ...



Yeah I saw that.

Dumbasses.


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 18, 2013)

*Navy Yard Shooting: Marines 'had weapons... but no ammunition'*

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7xQQ6m7Vzo&feature=youtu.be]Navy Yard Shooting: Marines 'had weapons... but no ammunition' - YouTube[/ame]


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## westwall (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
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> > rightwinger said:
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Funny how you ignore the fact that the majority of those crimes are committed by people who AREN'T from the civilized world.  Most violent crimes are committed by blacks and hispanics.  Part of it is socio economics but the majority is culture.  They simply don't value life as much as we do.

It was popular to compare Seattle with Vancouver once upon a time because Vancouver had five murders to however many it was in Seattle.  The problem arose when demographics was looked at.  The five murders in Vancouver were white.  There were five murders committed by whites in Seattle....all the rest were committed by blacks and Hispanics.

There is a cost to being the melting pot.  Send them all home and our violent crime rate plummets.


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## testarosa (Sep 18, 2013)

The Something Else Entirely part should be focused on.

That could do some good.

Instead, it's the same old same old same old battle of dredged up schtick.


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## testarosa (Sep 18, 2013)

westwall said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
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Absolutely.

And now we are reaching critical mass on "civilized" in our very own country, so rather than fixing the civilized (ha ha) we're going to blame the tool.

I'm not buying.


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## westwall (Sep 18, 2013)

testarosa said:


> westwall said:
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No thinking person is!


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 18, 2013)

*Navy Yard: Swat team 'stood down' at mass shooting scene*

One of the first teams of heavily armed police to respond to Monday's shooting in Washington DC was ordered to stand down by superiors, the BBC can reveal.
A tactical response team of the Capitol Police, a force that guards the US Capitol complex, was told to leave the scene by a supervisor instead of aiding municipal officers.

The Capitol Police department said senior officials were investigating.

...

"I don't think it's a far stretch to say that some lives may have been saved if we were allowed to intervene," a Capitol Police source familiar with the incident told the BBC.
BBC News - Navy Yard: Swat team 'stood down' at mass shooting scene


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## Geaux4it (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
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You are 30% less likely to be murdered in the USA than in rest of the world. You are 12x more likely to die outside the borders of the USA

-Geaux


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 18, 2013)

testarosa said:


> westwall said:
> 
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> > rightwinger said:
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it is becoming so much more obvious everyday 

that the false narrative the lefty media pushes 

is failing 

ask the two dem senators from Colorado that got booted last week 

for pushing and passing the anti freedom gun control laws 

how that is working out for them


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## testarosa (Sep 18, 2013)

I can list out 1,000 ways our society is breaking down and what I witness in this generation and on social media.    The dinosaurs of Modern US Society need to catch up so something can actually be done to fix it.

The gun battle is a diversion.

Until that ever happens <yeah right>  I'm going to keep up the fight to try to salvage something for my daughter and her kids so step off me.


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 18, 2013)

westwall said:


> testarosa said:
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> > westwall said:
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less are everyday


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 18, 2013)

testarosa said:


> I can list out 1,000 ways our society is breaking down and what I witness in this generation and on social media.    The dinosaurs of Modern US Society need to catch up so something can actually be done to fix it.
> 
> The gun battle is a diversion.
> 
> Until that ever happens <yeah right>  I'm going to keep up the fight to try to salvage something for my daughter and her kids so step off me.



they blame the gun because 

they dare not blame the bad policies and ideas


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## testarosa (Sep 18, 2013)

Yep.

And so we will go around in a circle chasing our tails.


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 18, 2013)

no not this time


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 18, 2013)

dont let the libs brainwash your children 

go read the text books they teach your children 

sit in on the classes once and a while 

ask your children what they are teaching them


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## Geaux4it (Sep 18, 2013)




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## Spoonman (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> testarosa said:
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> > rightwinger said:
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yes guns have nothing to do with it.  when those countries had guns their rates were still low.


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## rightwinger (Sep 18, 2013)

testarosa said:


> The gun arguments aren't even from this decade or the last one.
> 
> Mark my words.
> 
> ...


Of course you will keep your guns
We love our second amendment and nobody will interfere with your enjoyment of guns
We may have to put up with three times the murder rate, assassinations and massacres but damn it.......nobody fucks with our guns


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## testarosa (Sep 18, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> testarosa said:
> 
> 
> > The gun arguments aren't even from this decade or the last one.
> ...





Got that right.


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## testarosa (Sep 18, 2013)

Missed Point Ballpark.

And around and around we go.


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

eflatminor said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > eflatminor said:
> ...



1. You can call it what you want, but it's trying to get more guns out there.  I'm lying about nothing.  Are you keeping background checks?  Why do you want people to have whatever guns they want?  Studies show you only need 2-3 shots for defense and the type of gun really doesn't matter.  The only people using hi cap magazines are mass shooters.  You don't want require concealed carry permits.  Will that lead to more accidents due to no training?  In 2010 there were 600 unintentional injuries with firearms.  

So the security guards couldn't stop them but your certain that a CC would?  There was at least one armed person at the Tucson shooting, but he picked out the wrong person.  The shooter was stopped when he tried to reload.  Wouldn't lower capacity magazines be more of a help?

I'm more talking about company employees.  Companies don't want armed employees.  I doubt you can name a large company that allows employees to carry guns.  I don't think you'd ever get them to be ok with it.

So how many people have concealed carry permits?
Texas : 1 per about every 44 people.
New York: 1 per 210 people.
Minnesota: 1 per 35 people.
California: 1 per 1000 people.

So if you work in a smaller office of say 30 people your plan is unlikely to have a CC owner.  In CA it would have almost no effect.  MN might help more than other places.  What are your thoughts on those numbers?  Would the gun carries try to stop the shooter or use it to help get themselves out of there?  I'm quickly losing faith in the heroism of people.

2. Ok so let out the no victim criminals and keep more of the violent ones in for longer.  I'm not a fan of locking people up for victimless crime.  Can't hurt.  But again we have a lot of people in jail already for violent crimes.

3. I looked around and many of the countries with lower homicide rates were at 300 police per capita while we are like 250.  I agree with your proposal to add more.

4. I think the right to not be in jail is the most important one we have.  You really have no freedom if your in jail.  So yes I put that one up pretty high.  My own plan is to take their guns and make it so they can't buy guns.  Putting in jail is more effective I guess, but is very difficult and scary if abused.  I don't disagree with it but would need to be discussed in great detail.

One thing you've not touched on that I think is important and you might agree with.  I think it's important to shut down the borders.  We need to deport any criminal type illegals and close down the border.  Your thoughts?


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## R.C. Christian (Sep 18, 2013)

I have a load of 30 round magazines and a 100 round drum. I'm not a mass murderer nor will I ever be you senseless moron.


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 18, 2013)

R.C. Christian said:


> I have a load of 30 round magazines and a 100 round drum. I'm not a mass murderer nor will I ever be you senseless moron.



I would toss the 100 round it is useless. I have an M1 Carbine and own 4 30 round mags for it. Also 4 15 round mags a 10 round and 2 five round mags. You cant even see the 5 rounder when inserted.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> 1. You can call it what you want, but it's trying to get more guns out there.  I'm lying about nothing.  Are you keeping background checks?  Why do you want people to have whatever guns they want?  Studies show you only need 2-3 shots for defense and the type of gun really doesn't matter.  The only people using hi cap magazines are mass shooters.  You don't want require concealed carry permits.  Will that lead to more accidents due to no training?  In 2010 there were 600 unintentional injuries with firearms.



Studies show you only need 2 or 3 shots? Real life has show people take 15 rounds from police and walk to the ambulance after the gun fight. Are cops really bad shots, or are the studies based on a desire to ban guns?

Just an FYI, when a pistol holds 17 rounds that does not make a 15 round magazine high capacity.



Brain357 said:


> So the security guards couldn't stop them but your certain that a CC would?  There was at least one armed person at the Tucson shooting, but he picked out the wrong person.  The shooter was stopped when he tried to reload.  Wouldn't lower capacity magazines be more of a help?



The guards? The FBI says he took a single gun from the victims, why do you keep saying guards? 



Brain357 said:


> I'm more talking about company employees.  Companies don't want armed employees.  I doubt you can name a large company that allows employees to carry guns.  I don't think you'd ever get them to be ok with it.



Define large company, because I am pretty sure that, however you define it, I can find a company that is bigger that allows people to carry weapons.


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## Brain357 (Sep 18, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > 1. You can call it what you want, but it's trying to get more guns out there.  I'm lying about nothing.  Are you keeping background checks?  Why do you want people to have whatever guns they want?  Studies show you only need 2-3 shots for defense and the type of gun really doesn't matter.  The only people using hi cap magazines are mass shooters.  You don't want require concealed carry permits.  Will that lead to more accidents due to no training?  In 2010 there were 600 unintentional injuries with firearms.
> ...



Please share a link to where someone was shot 15 times and walked to the hospital.  They are statistics gun people throw around.  Isn't this a pro gun site?
Self-Defense Journal

I heard 2 cops were shot.  Has that changed like much of the story?

How about some national company with thousands of employees?


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## westwall (Sep 18, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...








There are 300 million firearms out there and they kill around 30,000 per year (actually less but I'm giving you the best possible numbers), of which 80% is gang related.  800,000 doctors kill 100,000 people per year due to medical malpractice, misdiagnosis, bad prescriptions etc.

More people die in their bathtubs than were killed by rifles last year.  Death during sex accounts for .6% of all sudden deaths.  You want to make the world safer? outlaw sex, it kills way more than accidental gun deaths.

The point being you can't make the world safe.  You can try as hard as you might, but people die.


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## williepete (Sep 18, 2013)

RetiredGySgt said:


> *I would toss the 100 round it is useless*.



Listen to the Gunny! 

Sell it to a sucker while prices are still high.


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## theliq (Sep 19, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Washington Navy Yard shooting: Active shooter sought in Southeast D.C. | WJLA.com
> 
> Police search for active shooter on grounds of Washington Navy Yard in Southeast D.C. - The Washington Post
> 
> ...



How about changing the Gun Laws,this type of thing has become too frequent....Too many Nutters.....Americans love their Guns but are they responsible enough to be allowed them.

Some obviously NOT......I read that this latest individual had been discharging his firearm into his neighbours yard a few days prior to this latest murders!!!!!!!steve


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## theliq (Sep 19, 2013)

westwall said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > eflatminor said:
> ...



Strange and Crazy Comparison


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



I said ambulance, not hospital.

But this guy was shot 5 times and walked to the hospital, which blows your 3 shots fake study out of the water.

Victim Shot Multiple Times Walks To Hospital - Philadelphia News, Weather and Sports from WTXF FOX 29

Like I said, the FBI says he had access to a pistol from a guard. There was an MPD officer that was also shot, and reports say that they didn't recover his weapon from him at the hospital, but that doesn't mean anyone took it.


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## Politico (Sep 19, 2013)

Thanks to you people I am going to be blitzed with ridiculous banner ads for days. And the voices in my head are screaming so loud I can't think.


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



He was shot in the lower extremities.  If you shoot for the lower extremities in defense it's your own fault if he's not stopped.  Try again.

Gunners use fake studies?

You seem to be saying there were 2 officers which agrees with me.


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## Geaux4it (Sep 19, 2013)

It's not guns that are the problem, it's our tolerance for the criminal element. We just do not have serious deterrents to crime. No consequences result in increased risk taking

We have all these guns, 50% of all owned in the world, yet you are 30% less likely to die of homicide in the USA than you are outside her borders

It's our failed diversity experiment that has America sailing like a ship without a rudder

-Geaux


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> It's not guns that are the problem, it's our tolerance for the criminal element. We just do not have serious deterrents to crime. No consequences result in increased risk taking
> 
> We have all these guns, 50% of all owned in the world, yet you are 30% less likely to die of homicide in the USA than you are outside her borders
> 
> ...



Again your comparing us to 3rd world countries.  You must think very little of this country.  Compare us to to developed countries and we're 4X more likely.  You don't even think we belong in the company of developed countries?


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## Geaux4it (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > It's not guns that are the problem, it's our tolerance for the criminal element. We just do not have serious deterrents to crime. No consequences result in increased risk taking
> ...



We are part of the world for which all guns are part of. This is why there are only 300 million guns outside our borders, and we have the rest. And yet, you are 12x more likely to die of homicide outside the USA. 

-Geaux


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## JoeB131 (Sep 19, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> It's not guns that are the problem, it's our tolerance for the criminal element. We just do not have serious deterrents to crime. No consequences result in increased risk taking
> 
> We have all these guns, 50% of all owned in the world, yet you are 30% less likely to die of homicide in the USA than you are outside her borders
> 
> ...



Yes, you are less likely to die of crime in America than in a third world country having a civil war. 

Like that's something to be proud of. 

However, you are MUCH MORE likely to die of crime in the US than any other industrialized, advanced democracy, which is what we supposedly are.  

The only thing that has failed is our libertarian expirment that ignores our obligations to each other as a society.  

If we have 270 million guns, and 2 million people in prison, and we STILL have the highest murder rates in the industrialized world, then we are just plain doing it wrong.


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## theliq (Sep 19, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...



Geaux......your comments are ridiculous......Australia and the UK and others ban guns for the general population,and we have minimal gun killings.

I think your mind is running without a rudder...


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## JoeB131 (Sep 19, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...



Again, comparing us to third world countries is disingenous.  

Other advanced industrialized democracies BAN guns, and they have very low murder rates.  

Poor third world countries allow guns (or can't enforce their own laws) and have high murder rates.  

So we have a goal we should want to move towards, and a goal we want to avoid. 

Unless you are a gun whack, and just think the problem is that we don't have enough people running around shooting other people.


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## Geaux4it (Sep 19, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > It's not guns that are the problem, it's our tolerance for the criminal element. We just do not have serious deterrents to crime. No consequences result in increased risk taking
> ...



You are 12x more likely to die of homicide outside the borders of the USA, yet we own 50% of all guns in the world

It's not the gun.

We need more prisons, US wide death penalty and other real consequences for crime

-Geaux


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...



So the right considers us a 3rd world country.  That explains a lot.  Most their policies are 3rd world.  Just be aware once we truly get there we will not have the huge army anymore.


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## theliq (Sep 19, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
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You are a violent society,that have a gun culture........you as a nation are totally irresponsible.......how odd you are wanting more prisons,when mentally you are imprisoned in your own minds because of the gun culture.

Wake Up


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## JoeB131 (Sep 19, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
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Just repeating something stupid doesn't make it smart. 

Besides the fact your 12x figure is ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT, we certainly don't need more prisons. 

We already lock up 2 million people, most of them for drug and property crimes.  

And if the Death Penalty was a deterrent, why do countries that have outlawed the practice have lower crime rates than the US?   Why does Wisconsin (which has never had a death penalty) have a lower crime rate than Texas?   

You are operating on emotion here.  Killing people you don't like would make you feel better, but it really doesn't solve the problems.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> [
> We do not have the highest murder rates.
> We are just honest in the way we compile the numbers.
> The UK government will not record a murder as a murder until a conviction has been secured. This is probably true for most EU states.
> ...



Right.  

That works on the assumption that British Cops are like escapees from a Monty Python Sketch.  

The UK only had 648 murders last year.  (only 48 with guns) 

We had 15, 900 - (11,101 with guns) 

Now either they have a really crappy conviction rate or you are full of shit.  

I'm going with the latter.


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...



So that would really only effect the numbers if a conviction is never secured.  Are you saying they have far fewer homicides and let all the murderers go?  Seems very unlikely.

Does Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and Japan all do the same thing?


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## Geaux4it (Sep 19, 2013)

theliq said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
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LMAO

-Geaux


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## JoeB131 (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



In Conservatard Land, you have to believe that the rest of the Industrialized World, far more liberal than we are, is lying about statistics to preserve their world view.  

SO if they are healthier, live longer, and have less crime, it isn't because they have socialized medicine, no guns and a welfare state. 

It's because they are "lying" about their statistics, and every citizen of their country goes along with it.  

Except Pauli, who apparently left the UK because it was too socialist.


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



Please share some real stats that they have a high unsolved crime rate.

Also what about every other developed country that has much lower homicide rates?  They have bad stats too?


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## JoeB131 (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> [
> The unsolved crime rate in the UK is astronomical.
> Most murders are not prioritized.
> Those with political value are.
> ...



This is a 20 year old case.  If you have to go back 20 years to find a murder case that was mishandled by authorties, you are really stretching it.


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## rightwinger (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



Bull Shit

They have Sherlock Holmes


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## eflatminor (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



I NEVER called for more guns.  You are in fact lying by saying "it's trying to get more guns out there".  



> Are you keeping background checks?  Why do you want people to have whatever guns they want?  Studies show you only need 2-3 shots for defense and the type of gun really doesn't matter.  The only people using hi cap magazines are mass shooters.  You don't want require concealed carry permits.  Will that lead to more accidents due to no training?  In 2010 there were 600 unintentional injuries with firearms.



Bullshit.  I used standard AR15 magazines for varmint hunting, hog hunting, shooting sports competition, and yes, home defense.  You lied again.

It's not your job to tell others what activities might lead to accidents.  Nobody's harming or taking from you, so please, mind your own damn business.



> So the security guards couldn't stop them but your certain that a CC would?



The security guards were dead before they could respond.  You're presenting a false choice...akin to another lie.

Put it this way:  If you were cowering in the corner of a gun free zone while some crazy was murdering innocent people and I was next to you with a .45, about to take aim and shoot the bastard, what would you say?  "No, you shouldn't do that...I don't like guns?"  Please.



> There was at least one armed person at the Tucson shooting, but he picked out the wrong person.  The shooter was stopped when he tried to reload.  Wouldn't lower capacity magazines be more of a help?



Wouldn't an armed good guy there to shoot the bastard BEFORE he had to reload been even MORE of a help?  Why yes it would!



> I'm more talking about company employees.  Companies don't want armed employees.  I doubt you can name a large company that allows employees to carry guns.  I don't think you'd ever get them to be ok with it.



Too bad for those companies.  They're CHOOSING to be victims.  I will make no such choice.



> So how many people have concealed carry permits?
> Texas : 1 per about every 44 people.
> New York: 1 per 210 people.
> Minnesota: 1 per 35 people.
> ...



Then arm yourself.  Why is God's name are you relying on others for you personal protection?



> 2. Ok so let out the no victim criminals and keep more of the violent ones in for longer.  I'm not a fan of locking people up for victimless crime.  Can't hurt.  But again we have a lot of people in jail already for violent crimes.
> 
> 3. I looked around and many of the countries with lower homicide rates were at 300 police per capita while we are like 250.  I agree with your proposal to add more.
> 
> ...



Borders are a separate issue.  The vast majority of murders are carried out in a few neighborhoods by American citizens in gangs.  Illegals are not doing mass killings.  

Bottom line, you're well intended, feel good "solutions" do nothing to prevent bad guys from doing bad things.  Why you think preventing good people from effectively defending themselves is beyond me.


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## Lonestar_logic (Sep 19, 2013)

I carry a handgun because cops are too heavy.


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



So you have no stats.  Surprising.


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

eflatminor said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > eflatminor said:
> ...



Would you keep background checks?

You must be a really bad shot if you need an ar15 for those uses.


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> 50% of crimes in the UK go unsolved according to hyper protective nanny state stats.
> The true number is likely 90%
> 
> On a given Saturday night there are hundreds of violent assaults in the UK.
> ...



That's not the whole uk. And the other countries?


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## eflatminor (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Would you keep background checks?



Many states require background checks.  They happen to be states with high murder rates.  They don't work.  Never will.



> You must be a really bad shit if you need an ar15 for those uses.



It's a Bill of Rights, not a bill of needs.


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## TemplarKormac (Sep 19, 2013)




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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

eflatminor said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Would you keep background checks?
> ...



So no, you'd let felons buy guns.  More more guns.  You'd do much more damage than good.

So you don't need it. My point is made.


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## eflatminor (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> If a crime goes unreported it don't make the records, it didn't happen.
> Indeed police in the UK have refused point blank to allow me to report crimes that I have been subject to on several occasions.
> Many folk I know have had the same experience.



You can add me to that list.  I lived in the UK for 6 years.  Twice I tried to report a crime and was told 'no thanks'.  If the police in the UK don't catch someone red handed, or have little hope of finding someone after the fact, they won't take the police report and therefore, no crime is recorded.  Exactly the opposite of how crime is recorded in the US.

Further, despite that approach, England has a higher violent crime rate than the US.


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



Germany, Sweden, Norway, Japan.....


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## MisterBeale (Sep 19, 2013)




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## Geaux4it (Sep 19, 2013)

MisterBeale said:


>





-Geaux


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## eflatminor (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Already laws against felons buying guns.  They don't obtain them from legitimate sources, where background checks make no difference.

Your point is clear:  Restrict law abiding citizens ability to effectively defend themselves in some vain hope that your good intentions will prevent bad people from doing bad things.

Pass.


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## MisterBeale (Sep 19, 2013)

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEsaXk6Sc3k"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEsaXk6Sc3k[/ame]


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



I mentioned them several times.  Do they also fudge the numbers?  They all have much lower homicide rates.


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## rightwinger (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Typical conservative revisionism

It is not that the US has a high murder rate it is that the rest of the world covers up tens of thousands of murders to make their rates seem smaller


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

eflatminor said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > eflatminor said:
> ...



They don't obtain them from legitimate sources because of background checks.  Duh

Now your lying.  What have I suggested that restricts anyone from defending themselves?


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



So your argument is that one of the many developed countries with much lower homicide rates might fudge the numbers.  Strong argument.


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## Kondor3 (Sep 19, 2013)

So, have our resident Gun-Grabbers figured a way yet, to seize the firearms of their fellow citizens?


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



Good thing I seldom use the uk as an example.


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## Lonestar_logic (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



A fact that's comparative to the frequency that you use your brain.


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## rightwinger (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



The UK, France, Germany, Italy, Canada, Spain, Sweden, Denmark all have murder rates around one per hundred thousand. The US is close to five

Spin that any way you like

The US is perfectly happy with their murder rate as long as we can keep our guns


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## Katzndogz (Sep 19, 2013)

If we didn't have minority gangs all of whom have a raging sense of entitlement, we would have the murder rate of Brussels.


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## Uncensored2008 (Sep 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Not true
> 
> Most homicides are by someone you know.



Say Hatewinger, what class of weapon is used for most homicides?

Is it guns? You seem to keep ducking this...


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Katzndogz said:


> If we didn't have minority gangs all of whom have a raging sense of entitlement, we would have the murder rate of Brussels.



Perhaps.  I guess we should do something about income inequality.
Income Inequality?s Strange Relationship to Violence | Political Violence @ a Glance


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## rightwinger (Sep 19, 2013)

Katzndogz said:


> If we didn't have minority gangs all of whom have a raging sense of entitlement, we would have the murder rate of Brussels.



No we wouldn't

Whites still account for over 50% of our murder rate. 30% of our murders are domestic violence, not gangs

Gang homicides account for 12% of our murders
http://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/Survey-Analysis/Measuring-the-Extent-of-Gang-Problems

&#8226;The total number of gang homicides reported by respondents in the NYGS sample averaged more than 1,900 annually from 2007 to 2011. During the same time period, the FBI estimated, on average, more than 15,500 homicides across the United States (www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-1). These estimates suggest that gang-related homicides typically accounted for around 12 percent of all homicides annually.


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



While increasing CEO pay and shipping jobs to china.  More gangs anyone?


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## Uncensored2008 (Sep 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Two thirds are by gun
> 
> Next question?



In 2011 - by rifle, including "assault weapons" with all that deadly plastic on them: 323

By knives: 1,817 	

Try again

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 8


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## Missourian (Sep 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...




The UK banned guns...and their firearm murder rate remains unchanged 16 years later.

Guns aren't the problem.

Rural America has a murder rate right there with those you cite.

In general, homicide gun deaths in the United States are more of an  urban than a rural problem. *"Half of all homicides occurred in 63 cities  with 16% of the nation's population; within those cities, homicides  were largely clustered in certain neighborhoods."*[7]  For example, in Milwaukee, two inner-city zip codes, 53204 and 53215,  have homicide rates of 89.1 per 100,000 and 38.8 per 100,000,  respectively, compared with a homicide rate of 10.5 per 100,000 for the  state in general.[16]

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/405837​


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## Uncensored2008 (Sep 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Does it matter when we have a murder rate three times that which we consider the "civilized" world?



A rate that is dramatically declining, as it rises in Europe - mostly due to more honest statistics being gathered.

So yes, it matters a lot, to those who care about the victims.

It doesn't matter to you, because your goal is to crush civil rights, not to reduce crime.


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## rightwinger (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



Have any data to support your theory that fewer guns increased violence?

My guess is changing demographics and a collapsing economy increased the violence in the last 15 years, Regardless, England STILL has a murder rate that is one quarter of ours


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## westwall (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > It's not guns that are the problem, it's our tolerance for the criminal element. We just do not have serious deterrents to crime. No consequences result in increased risk taking
> ...








And most of our violent crime is thanks to immigrants from those third world countries you speak so poorly of.  The simple fact is we have way more third world immigrants than every country in Europe combined.  Funny how you ignore that fact.

You see you choose only those facts that support your pre-conceived idea.  Not the most ethical person are you...


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## westwall (Sep 19, 2013)

theliq said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...







Australia banned guns and witnessed a 44% jump in violent crime.  Your assertion is without merit.


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## rightwinger (Sep 19, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Does it matter when we have a murder rate three times that which we consider the "civilized" world?
> ...



Provide us the numbers and maybe we can take you seriously


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## Spoonman (Sep 19, 2013)

Missourian said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



they gloss over that fact all the tme.  gun control did not reduce the murder rates in these countries. it was already at those levels.  gun homicide rates have dropped at the same percentage as any of these countries since we eliminated clinton's assault weapons ban.  with less laws our reductions have been as good or better then theirs with bans


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## westwall (Sep 19, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...








Every bit as much as yours is.  We have far more third world immigrants than all the rest of the "civilized world" and they have brought their culture with them.  Remember how we are supposed to embrace their culture?  Sadly their cultures don't value life as ours does.


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## Spoonman (Sep 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > If we didn't have minority gangs all of whom have a raging sense of entitlement, we would have the murder rate of Brussels.
> ...



how many gang members are there compared to whites?  lets put things into the proper proportion to get the real picture.  you libs love to play the numbers games


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## westwall (Sep 19, 2013)

theliq said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...








The gun culture is as much to blame for this as homosexuals are for the spread of AIDS.  Your assertion is equally ridiculous.  Wake up!


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## Spoonman (Sep 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



and they had those rates without strict gun laws.  guns are not the problem


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

westwall said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...



So you agree we should do something about income inequality, good.


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## westwall (Sep 19, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...








What does the phrase "a good bricking" mean?


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## Uncensored2008 (Sep 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Of course you will keep your guns
> We love our second amendment and nobody will interfere with your enjoyment of guns
> We may have to put up with three times the murder rate, assassinations and massacres but damn it.......nobody fucks with our guns



Yep, the lament of the left - if you could just get rid of that damned Constitution, all would be dandy.

The democratic party: Fighting to end civil rights, once and for all....


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## Katzndogz (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > If we didn't have minority gangs all of whom have a raging sense of entitlement, we would have the murder rate of Brussels.
> ...



You mean like paying people to stay poor?   It won't help.  No matter how much you pay people not to work, they will still feel entitled to more.   As long as some people are willing to work harder and longer than others there will be income inequality.


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## Nosmo King (Sep 19, 2013)

Why are we outraged by mass shootings?  We can't do a damn thing about them. Just ask any gun lover.  There are too many weapons on the streets, so let's not even try to control it.  That's an Augean task.  There are no such things as assault weapons.  Ask the gun lover.  He'll verify that.  Guns that shoot dozens of rounds in the blink of an eye are just the greatest advancements of technology and help gun lovers play out their fantasies of being Rambo or holding off multiple intruders in a last stand of imagined glory.

Scores of children lying in pools of their own blood is just the cost of second amendment rights.

Guns aren't the problem, the idiots standing in front of them are the problem.

We can't do back ground checks because they are not 100% effective against the mentally frazzled buying the same weapon issued to troops in the field.  And if something isn't 100% effective, it just isn't worth doing.  Ask any gun lover.  They'll tell you the same.

We should just accept mass shootings as the consequence of the second amendment.  Turn a blind eye to the tragedy.  Rationalize death with freedom.  Don't even try to stem the tide of gun violence, that would be a threat to everyone's rights.  

And so goes the logic of the gun lover.  Indifference to suffering tempered by irrational gun lust.


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## Uncensored2008 (Sep 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Provide us the numbers and maybe we can take you seriously



Who is "we?"

You are flat out dishonest - you have an agenda to end civil rights and are willing to distort and outright lie to do so. 






Even with the spike in the 60's and 70's with the rise of you Communists, there is a steady drop.


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Katzndogz said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



No I mean incentives for companies to create jobs here and give good wages and benefits.


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## Uncensored2008 (Sep 19, 2013)

Rampage shootings are driven more by the DNC controlled media than any other factor. It is the way for insane scumbags to get their 15 minutes of fame.


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## rightwinger (Sep 19, 2013)

Spoonman said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



Number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Those countries have on average, one third of the gun ownership of the US and one quarter of our murder rate


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## Nosmo King (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > Why are we outraged by mass shootings?  We can't do a damn thing about them. Just ask any gun lover.  There are too many weapons on the streets, so let's not even try to control it.  That's an Augean task.  There are no such things as assault weapons.  Ask the gun lover.  He'll verify that.  Guns that shoot dozens of rounds in the blink of an eye are just the greatest advancements of technology and help gun lovers play out their fantasies of being Rambo or holding off multiple intruders in a last stand of imagined glory.
> ...


That's the point you dispute?  What a fine sieve the Conservative brain is!


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## rightwinger (Sep 19, 2013)

Spoonman said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



Doesn't answer the question

The statement was that if not for minority gangs, we would have the murder rate of Belgium. This is far from the truth

Gangs are clearly a problem in this country but not the reason we have a murder rate at four times similar countries


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## Spoonman (Sep 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



and guns are not the reason either


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## rightwinger (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Spoonman said:
> ...



It tells me that since 1997, England has had a significant shift in demographics and a sagging economy

It also tells me that they still have one quarter of the murder rate we do


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## Spoonman (Sep 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



those countries had those rates before gun laws.  gun laws had no influence on those rates.  hence - Guns Are Not The Issue!


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



Companies want to pay no taxes.  So if they meet certain criteria including min pay, benefits, retirement....   Let them pay no taxes.  It's obviously a complicated formula, but that's basically what I would do.

Yes while jobs are being shipped to other countries they will just run out and get one.


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## Spoonman (Sep 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


and always had a rate the quarter we do


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## rightwinger (Sep 19, 2013)

Spoonman said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Spoonman said:
> ...



The reason?  No
But the weapon of choice in two thirds of our homicides


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## westwall (Sep 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > If we didn't have minority gangs all of whom have a raging sense of entitlement, we would have the murder rate of Brussels.
> ...







Actually, yes we would.  Remove the murder rates from Chicago, Detroit, Philly, and DC and our murder rate drops to BELOW European levels.  Now, I wonder who runs those cities?


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## westwall (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...








You are a disingenuous little troll aren't you.  Good to know and you will now be treated as such.

And for the record no I don't.  Instead I think that asshats like you should be given a one way ticket to Zimbabwe.  You need to witness the third world in person.


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## westwall (Sep 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...







And they ALWAYS had it.  You really are an unethical little asshat aren't you.  Report the real stats you propagandist.


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

westwall said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



So you say gangs are the problem but you don't want to fix the problem.  Brilliant.  You must love murder.


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## westwall (Sep 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...









And your response tells me that you are intellectually dishonest.


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## eflatminor (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Then please, stop rambling on about background checks.



> Now your lying.  What have I suggested that restricts anyone from defending themselves?



You support gun free zones for one.  You support waiting periods.  You support limiting the type of firearms, ammunition and accessories we KNOW the bad guys will have, thereby putting good people at a tactical disadvantage.  These bullshit 'feel good' rules restrict our God given and Constitutional right to self defense.


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## westwall (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...








Ahhhh, the good little NAZI raises his flag.  You can't have your little NAZI paradise so long as the people are armed so just like the NAZI's did you want to disarm the PEOPLE so you can set up your little totalitarian nightmare.

No thank you.  We have seen the result of your little wet dreams.


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## Missourian (Sep 19, 2013)

Nosmo King said:


> Why are we outraged by mass shootings?  We can't do a damn thing about them. Just ask any gun lover.  There are too many weapons on the streets, so let's not even try to control it.  That's an Augean task.  There are no such things as assault weapons.  Ask the gun lover.  He'll verify that.  Guns that shoot dozens of rounds in the blink of an eye are just the greatest advancements of technology and help gun lovers play out their fantasies of being Rambo or holding off multiple intruders in a last stand of imagined glory.
> 
> Scores of children lying in pools of their own blood is just the cost of second amendment rights.
> 
> ...




You accept drunk driving deaths as a consequence of legal alcohol,  and it has no Constitutional protection.

And more children are "lying in pools of their own blood" as a direct result of alcohol than guns.

Where is your outrage?

At least guns serve a purpose...hunting and self protection.

Alcohol serves NO useful purpose.

Why is there no push to restrict it?

You should get down off your moral high horse before you fall off.


----------



## Missourian (Sep 19, 2013)

Missourian said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > Why are we outraged by mass shootings?  We can't do a damn thing about them. Just ask any gun lover.  There are too many weapons on the streets, so let's not even try to control it.  That's an Augean task.  There are no such things as assault weapons.  Ask the gun lover.  He'll verify that.  Guns that shoot dozens of rounds in the blink of an eye are just the greatest advancements of technology and help gun lovers play out their fantasies of being Rambo or holding off multiple intruders in a last stand of imagined glory.
> ...



*Over 1.2 million drivers were arrested in 2011 for driving under the influence of alcohol or narcotics.   *

 

(Federal Bureau of Investigation, Crime in the United States: 2011)



*Every day in America, another 27 people die as a result of drunk driving crashes.  *

 

National Highway Traffic Safety Administration FARS data, 2012.
 - See more at: MADD - Statistics


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

eflatminor said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > eflatminor said:
> ...



So you'd let felons buy guns, that should really help.

Studies show defense requires no more than 3 shots.  Your big guns are just feel good for the paranoid.  Meanwhile they are mowing down innocents.


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

westwall said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



News flash. There are no nazis.  Please seek mental help.


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## Nosmo King (Sep 19, 2013)

Missourian said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > Why are we outraged by mass shootings?  We can't do a damn thing about them. Just ask any gun lover.  There are too many weapons on the streets, so let's not even try to control it.  That's an Augean task.  There are no such things as assault weapons.  Ask the gun lover.  He'll verify that.  Guns that shoot dozens of rounds in the blink of an eye are just the greatest advancements of technology and help gun lovers play out their fantasies of being Rambo or holding off multiple intruders in a last stand of imagined glory.
> ...


Do you assume that folks are incapable of multitasking?  That moral outrage can be directed in one direction at a time?  Or do you find arguing against alcohol easier than finding a workable solution to the plague of gun violence?  Is that merely a distraction, or can you find no solutions to either problem?


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## Spoonman (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



do you really need 500 HP to do 55 on a highway?

do you really need an alcohol level of more than 3.2% to get drunk?

do you really need to have gormet foods when a protien powder and some vitamins would give us all we need


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## Missourian (Sep 19, 2013)

Nosmo King said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



I know what I see with my own eyes.

Do you see a national movement to restrict alcohol?

Anyone pushing that?

No.


----------



## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Missourian said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > Missourian said:
> ...



The amount you can drink before driving is limited.  Just like we should limit magazine capacity.


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## rightwinger (Sep 19, 2013)

westwall said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Spoonman said:
> ...



These are the real stats and are linked

The US has twice the gun ownership of the next closest country. Guns are readilly accessible to the American public and we have a murder rate four times that of similar (EU) nations

Nothing is going to change that. We love our guns and are willing to put up with increased murders, assasinations and massacres

It is the price we pay for our second amendment


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## Spoonman (Sep 19, 2013)

here's a little tip.  until we address and solve the violence problem in america, we're fixing nothing.  Guns are not the problem.  they are simply one of many tools used by a much larger problem.  the solutions being offered do nothing to stop the bigger problem.  but they do hamper and infringe on the rights of those who are not part of the bigger problem.  

it really is time we stop penalizing the innocent for a problem we aren't really trying to fix


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## eflatminor (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



I never said states shouldn't require background checks, even though we all know felons get their firearms by other means.  So you're lying, once again.



> Studies show defense requires no more than 3 shots.  Your big guns are just feel good for the paranoid.  Meanwhile they are mowing down innocents.



That you were not able to defend your support of restricting law abiding citizens from protecting themselves is telling.  And you clearly have no idea what a "big gun" is.  But hey, the ad hominem was a nice try...


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## Spoonman (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



so we'll go with your analogy.  yes, there is a limit on what you can drink BEFORE YOU DRIVE.  But ther is no limit on what you can drink.    and ther should be no limit on the size of your magazine.


----------



## Spoonman (Sep 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



again with the pointless argument.   those other countries had low rates when they were allowed guns.  guns, no guns, makes no difference


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Spoonman said:


> here's a little tip.  until we address and solve the violence problem in america, we're fixing nothing.  Guns are not the problem.  they are simply one of many tools used by a much larger problem.  the solutions being offered do nothing to stop the bigger problem.  but they do hamper and infringe on the rights of those who are not part of the bigger problem.
> 
> it really is time we stop penalizing the innocent for a problem we aren't really trying to fix



What do you suggest?


----------



## Nosmo King (Sep 19, 2013)

Missourian said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > Missourian said:
> ...


Two historical words to contemplate: Volstead Act


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Spoonman said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Missourian said:
> ...



There is a limit on the amount of alcohol.  I didn't say limit caliber or type of gun, I said limit magazine capacity.


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## rightwinger (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



Bullshit


----------



## Missourian (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



Fine by me...allow me to buy a 30 round magazine...but make a law that says I can only have 10 in it legally...just like alcohol.


----------



## Spoonman (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> > here's a little tip.  until we address and solve the violence problem in america, we're fixing nothing.  Guns are not the problem.  they are simply one of many tools used by a much larger problem.  the solutions being offered do nothing to stop the bigger problem.  but they do hamper and infringe on the rights of those who are not part of the bigger problem.
> ...



a comprehensive list of my suggestions would take a lot more time then i have right now. but for starters -  

jails would no longer be country clubs.  hard time for hard crimes. bring back chain gangs and work details.  

fix our immigration problem.  eliminate anchor babies. if you are not here legally you are eligible for no assitance. at all.  we have to start sending the right message.

you are on welfare and you can't afford kids on your own, you don't have kids. and you don't get paid more to keep making more.  

we need to focus more on education. there is no excuse for kids to be in school doing nothing. future generations have to be made aware if you go through life and do not get an education or learn a trade, you are not eligible for entitlements.  no more of this, i'm not qualified so i can't get a job. 

any form of violent attacks should carry mandatory strict penalties.


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## Spoonman (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



there is no legal limit on the amount of alcohol you can drink.


----------



## Missourian (Sep 19, 2013)

Spoonman said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Spoonman said:
> ...



It's on the honor system...I am amenable to the same for magazines.


----------



## rightwinger (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Love it.
> Luddie was silenced with embarrassment when I showed him reality!!
> 
> Now Rightwinger has been silenced.
> ...



Self declared victories are always so fulfilling


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



People have died after being shot in the foot, others take rounds to the head and shake it off.


----------



## MikeK (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


And you will create another black market item.  

There are millions of high capacity magazines presently at large.  They are not serial numbered.  Very few can be traced via sales records, which would be an extremely difficult task to attempt and would net minimal results.  

So the bottom line result of an attempted purge of high capacity magazines would increase the black market price of an item that cost $20 when it was legally available to $100.  A price which any suicidal psycho who is planning a mass shooting would be glad to pay.

When contemplating any kind of ban, consider the success level of the _War on Drugs._  Recreational drugs are more available today than when the drug war was initiated -- and they cost less.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > It's not guns that are the problem, it's our tolerance for the criminal element. We just do not have serious deterrents to crime. No consequences result in increased risk taking
> ...



Let me guess, you define civilized world as any country that has a lower homicide rate than the US.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > It's not guns that are the problem, it's our tolerance for the criminal element. We just do not have serious deterrents to crime. No consequences result in increased risk taking
> ...



Why do you use a 19th century metric to define a 21st century planet? What makes Russia not an industrialized advanced democracy? Is it the inconvenient truth that they have a higher murder rate, and a higher firearm homicide rate, than the US?


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Except when they don't, but keep repeating the lie, it saves me the trouble of actually dealing with you as an honest debater.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



I don't consider any country third world just because it makes it easier for me to score points in a debate.

Did you know that there are more cell phones on the planet than people? That even countries you dismiss as third world have cell phones and internet access, some of them to a much greater extent than the US? When do you plan on moving into the 21st century instead of pretending that industrialization is the major driving force of the world economy?


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



What makes you think they are significantly better at solving crimes, and getting a conviction, than US cops?


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



WHAT FUCKING INDUSTRIALIZED WORLD ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Just asking because you seem to think you know what the term means, even though no educated person on the planet uses it. The modern term is production capacity, which includes non industrial capacity that includes basic research, and no one has a definition of it either.

Do you consider Russia an industrial nation? Are you aware that they have a higher murder rate? What about North Korea? They even have nuclear power, which makes them pretty modern, yet they have a higher homicide rate. So does Mexico, South Africa, and Puerto Rico. Please, tell me that Puerto Rico doesn't meet your definition of industrialized, then tell me it doesn't have a modern democracy.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Please tell me they don't have a high unsolved crime rate so I can laugh at you.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > 50% of crimes in the UK go unsolved according to hyper protective nanny state stats.
> ...



An article from the UK that talks about the UK is not the UK, good to know.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



They aren't in the UK.


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



While we have about 30 murders every single day.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



According to the ATF, the primary source of criminal guns is FFL dealers that don't follow the law. Which means that background checks don't stop criminals because they get their guns from criminals.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Every single one of those countries has a higher crime rate than the US.

Spin that anyway you like, you will end up with the fact that guns make us safer.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > If we didn't have minority gangs all of whom have a raging sense of entitlement, we would have the murder rate of Brussels.
> ...



Now it comes out, you believe fictional statistics influence crime rates.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



You are starting to sound like rdean.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

Missourian said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



Looks to me like the solution is to stop packing large numbers of people into small areas.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Yes.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/gener...nning-firearms-reduce-murder-and-suicide.html


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



You want to cut taxes?


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Russia has 10% of the guns we do, and 300% of our murder rate, what was your point again?


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



Why should we limit magazine capacity? I want a rational argument, if you are capable of one.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> You want point by point?
> I've proven your retardation.
> You want to be further humiliated?



You can't humiliate Hatewinger - the boi has no shame....


----------



## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



Still waiting on documentation of the 15 shot tall tale.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Sep 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> The reason?  No
> But the weapon of choice in two thirds of our homicides



STILL playing this?

Handguns might be, but those "assault weapons" you of the anti-liberty faction seek to outlaw are less used than knives, blunt objects, poison, or even bare hands.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



There is no law that limits how much alcohol one can buy, or own.


----------



## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



It talks about Scotland.  Is that the whole uk?


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Still bullshit Rightwinger?
> 
> Can we call you SHITEWINGER?
> Or perhaps SHITETALKER?
> More accurate username for you!!



I call him "Hatewinger," because he is a mere echo of the leftist hate sites like ThinkProgress and DailyKOS.


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



That would be the incentive obviously.


----------



## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Spoonman said:
> ...



Their rate is dropping like a rock.  Expect them to be lower than us soon.


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## Nosmo King (Sep 19, 2013)

And so we realize that there is nothing to do about gun violence.  Gun lovers deny that mass shootings are a problem.  Back ground checks are not 100% effective so we can forget even trying that.  Modern semi-automatic weapons fitted with large capacity magazines are just too sexy to ban, so we cannot contemplate removing them from the streets.  It would shatter the gun lust the gun lovers enjoy so much.  In fact we cannot refer to such weapons as 'assault weapons' as that kinks up the argument against them by providing a scary image.

Piles of victims bodies shows that there is no problem with guns because a rationalization widely used by the gun lovers shows that peanuts, swimming pools, automobiles and hatchets can produce 10, 20, 30 victims at a time just as guns can.

We therefore must temper our outrage and accept victims of gun violence as nothing more than the price we must pay to satisfy gun lust and the lopsided logic that tells us guns aren't as much a problem as people simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time.  We must adjust our morality and forget gun violence as a tragedy but simply the consequence of flooding our streets with weapons best suited for well regulated militias.


----------



## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Missourian said:
> ...



Statistics show only 3 shots needed for defense.  Mass shooters however shoot a lot more.  Also there are many examples of mass shooters being stopped at reload like Tucson.  Will save lives.


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## Uncensored2008 (Sep 19, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Be VEWWWY QUIET, Comrade JoeB is hunting civil rights..







He's gunna kill em all!


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Still waiting for your list of fake studies that prove you only need 3 rounds to defend yourself.

This guy was shot 5 times, and still managed to get into his car and drive away.

Georgia mom shoots home intruder in the face five times with a .38-caliber revolver - NY Daily News

Look up the story of Officer Steve Chaney sometime. He shot a guy 11 times before he went down, twice to the head.

Or Officer Stacy Linn, who got shot in the heart with a .357 and chased down the guy that shot her.

Or you could look at the infamous Miami shootout, where one suspect took a fatal wound to the chest, climbed out of his car window, and managed to keep shooting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

Unless you can convince cops they only need 3 rounds, don't try to convince me I only need 3.


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## Spoonman (Sep 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > If we didn't have minority gangs all of whom have a raging sense of entitlement, we would have the murder rate of Brussels.
> ...



ok, now you're just talking shit again.  these numbers looked off so i had to verify

Blacks alone, who make up 13% of the population account for 54% of the gun homicides

why do you guys always have to play games with the numbers?  do you feel your argument is not strong enough to present the facts?


----------



## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



Actually I provided it sometime ago.

Having read that I think 1 shot would have sent him running.


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## Spoonman (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



ok, so why did no one stop this guy with a 0 capacity magazine.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Is it part of the UK? If I was talking about violent crime in the US, could I use Denver as an example?


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



That was funny.

Get back to me in 90 years when it gets down to where we are now, and lets find out what ours is then.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



I don't see any statistics, are they all in your ass?


----------



## Missourian (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Average of 3 shots.

One may need 20 rounds and 20 may need 1.

That's an average of 2 shots...but one defender still needed 20 rounds.

This shooter had a 5 round magazine.

He killed more than the Joker did in Aurora did with a 100 round magazine.

That in itself blows your theory out of the water.


----------



## Missourian (Sep 19, 2013)

I'm not nearly as interested in a victory as I am an understanding.

The facts are on the side of the Second Amendment defenders.

But we WANT to reduce homicides as much as the gun grabbers.

I would compromise with gun grabbers if I thought they were sincere.

But the fact is that gun grabbers will never feel safe until all guns are gone.

Look at this latest mass shooting.

The guy used a shotgun no different than millions of legally owned firearms that hunters use.

A five round tubular magazine is standard.

I've asked this 1000 times.

WHAT GUN CONTROL WOULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS SHOOTING?

Tell me.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

Missourian said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



Not to mention all the times that people just pull their weapons and never fire a shot, thus skewing all the statistics.


----------



## Nosmo King (Sep 19, 2013)

Missourian said:


> I'm not nearly as interested in a victory as I am an understanding.
> 
> The facts are on the side of the Second Amendment defenders.
> 
> ...


So gun control doesn't work.  Back ground checks aren't a panacea and not 100% effective so why bother.  Gun lovers would tell us that each and every weapon in the American military arsenal should be on American streets in the hands of whoever has the means to obtain them.  The rights of the mentally frazzled must not be infringed if they too want to own a weapon.  In fact, gun lovers tell us that there is no such thing as an assault weapon, mass shootings produce as many victims as peanut allergies and choking incidents.  As the second amendment must be followed (with that pesky exception of well regulated militias) to the letter, our current situation cannot be changed at all.

Where are the suggestions from gun lovers to cut the rate of violence?  All I hear is a bunch of lop-sided rationalizations from folks blinded by the glamor and lust for guns.


----------



## Nosmo King (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > And so we realize that there is nothing to do about gun violence.  Gun lovers deny that mass shootings are a problem.  Back ground checks are not 100% effective so we can forget even trying that.  Modern semi-automatic weapons fitted with large capacity magazines are just too sexy to ban, so we cannot contemplate removing them from the streets.  It would shatter the gun lust the gun lovers enjoy so much.  In fact we cannot refer to such weapons as 'assault weapons' as that kinks up the argument against them by providing a scary image.
> ...



I'm adopting the gun lover's attitude.  I don't care about mass shootings and the victims of them.  Guns are just too cool, numerous, powerful and sexy to ban.  Everyone's rights trump public safety.  Guns aren't the problem, even after gunfire results in scores of victims at once.  People die, so what.  So long as there are plenty of guns and ammo to go around.  What could possibly go wrong?


----------



## Nosmo King (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > Missourian said:
> ...


That must explain how sensible gun legislation passed so quickly not only at the federal level, but among the various states.  It must then further explain why and how the recall election in Colorado removed legislators after they instituted gun legislation.  You're absolutely right.  The Republican Party coupled with their benefactors, the National Rifle Association have come up with reams of sensible legislation enacted after the horrors in aurora and Newtown.

Oh.  Wait.  NONE OF THAT HAPPENED DUE TO THE STIFLING OBSTRUCTIONIST POLICY OF THE MODERN CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT!

Where are the suggestions?  Other than the rationalizations that dismiss gun violence as nothing more  than a pesky little problem?


----------



## Nosmo King (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...


Tell me then from a gun lover's perspective; what can be done?  I've NEVER heard one gun lover offer anything but rationalizations.  Never a solution.


----------



## R.C. Christian (Sep 19, 2013)

Nosmo King said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not nearly as interested in a victory as I am an understanding.
> ...



The only answer to your question is total gun control. That might have prevented this. 

Nevertheless, It wouldn't have prevented someone like me who knows chemistry from binding together some legally purchased acetone peroxide and blowing the place to pieces.


----------



## Nosmo King (Sep 19, 2013)

R.C. Christian said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > Missourian said:
> ...


So currently peroxide is as big a problem as gun violence?  Just another rationalization.


----------



## Spoonman (Sep 19, 2013)

R.C. Christian said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > Missourian said:
> ...



gun powder  = sulfur, charcol and potassium nitrate.   how hard is it to make yourself.   if you don't know all you have to do is google it


----------



## Missourian (Sep 19, 2013)

Nosmo King said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not nearly as interested in a victory as I am an understanding.
> ...



The solution of the gun grabber is always the same...grab guns.

Guns aren't the problem.

In general, homicide gun deaths in the United States are more of an  urban than a rural problem. *"Half of all homicides occurred in 63 cities  with 16% of the nation's population; within those cities, homicides  were largely clustered in certain neighborhoods."*[7]  For example, in Milwaukee, two inner-city zip codes, 53204 and 53215,  have homicide rates of 89.1 per 100,000 and 38.8 per 100,000,  respectively, compared with a homicide rate of 10.5 per 100,000 for the  state in general.[16]

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/405837​


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## Politico (Sep 19, 2013)

The voices the voices!


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

Nosmo King said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



I haven't met a single person with that attitude, perhaps the problem is your lack of critical thinking.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

Nosmo King said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



Could that be because you don't look? There have been solutions proposed right here in this thread. I don't think most of them will work, but they are still out there.


----------



## rightwinger (Sep 19, 2013)

Spoonman said:


> R.C. Christian said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



Capt Kirk did it when he fought the Gorn


----------



## Spoonman (Sep 19, 2013)

Nosmo King said:


> R.C. Christian said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



Nosomo, I think the point is, take away guns and it or something else will become a problem.   The gun is only a tool utilized by a much larger issue.    if you don't have a gun and you want to kill yourself, you'll still kill yourself.  yes a gun is an easier way to do it, but lack of one is not going to stop you.     if you don't have a gun and you want to kill someone, you're going to kill them regardless.   again, the gun makes it easier, but you'll still do it without a gun.  

The problem is our society is people do not value life.  we have developed a pervasive attitude among many that if some one slights you, you kill them.  a few decades ago, if someone slighted you, maybe you beat them up.  thats the problem we have to fix.  we also have to stop turning a blind eye to mental health issues.  they are ou there, but we don't want to deal with them.  and this killing is a perfect example.  all the signs were there.  how does this guy get security clearance to a sensitive naval area? especially when he had issues in the service.  especially when he had priors involving weapons.  especially when the Rhode Island Police warned the Navy, this guy was a potential issue.  but nothing is done at all.  a gun is only a tool this existing problem used.  and how does a guy with all of these issues and red flags get through a security checkpoint, with metal detectors, carrying guns and ammunition.  there are so many things gone wrong here. the gun was nothing more than the tool used.  and honestly, when you look at the number of guns in the USA only .000036 of them ever kill anyone.


----------



## Spoonman (Sep 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> > R.C. Christian said:
> ...



i've made it too.  it hasn't been the cleanest firing stuff, but it sent the projectile flying


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## Uncensored2008 (Sep 19, 2013)

Missourian said:


> The solution of the gun grabber is always the same...grab guns.
> 
> Guns aren't the problem.
> 
> ...



I take it those are middle class neighborhoods of predominantly white people? This must be why democrats hate white people so much, all that crime they do.....


----------



## Nosmo King (Sep 19, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...


No.  this attitude exists, and right here on this thread.  Gun control, in any guise, won't work.  therefore gun control must be abandoned as a possible solution.  There are too many guns that too many gun lovers love to think about banning.  So banning guns won't work.  Guns are not the problem, so we are forced by that ham handed deflection to look elsewhere for a solution.  People die as a result of gun violence, but the percentage of gun deaths is dwarfed by those who die in car wrecks, swimming pools, peanut chocking and allergies and etc., etc.  So, again there's absolutely no problem with guns!  We should have a heavily armed population.  Everyone packing heat.  What could possibly go wrong?  

Thus is the gun lovers attitude.  No solutions because they refuse to see the problem.  Party on and lock and load.  What a way to go!


----------



## Nosmo King (Sep 19, 2013)

Spoonman said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > R.C. Christian said:
> ...



Sure.  But name another 'tool' designed to throw out massive amounts of lead at a rapid pace.  Name a tool capable of being carried into a school and kill scores of students.  A tool concealable enough to carry into a convenience store at 2:00 am to intimidate and kill the clerk.  

Then cite the percentage of such tools used to kill people.


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## Uncensored2008 (Sep 19, 2013)

Nosmo King said:


> No.  this attitude exists, and right here on this thread.



Yeah, by you and Hatewinger.

Not by anyone with integrity.



> Gun control, in any guise, won't work.  therefore gun control must be abandoned as a possible solution.



You of the left are at war against civil rights - but few people are comfortable with your scheme to revoke Constitutional protections of civil rights, particularly when you cannot demonstrate that the loss of civil rights will result in greater safety.

It's clear to me that the Bush/Obama police state has done nothing to make the nation safer - so why should we believe that your scheme to end civil rights will?



> There are too many guns that too many gun lovers love to think about banning.  So banning guns won't work.  Guns are not the problem, so we are forced by that ham handed deflection to look elsewhere for a solution.  People die as a result of gun violence, but the percentage of gun deaths is dwarfed by those who die in car wrecks, swimming pools, peanut chocking and allergies and etc., etc.  So, again there's absolutely no problem with guns!  We should have a heavily armed population.  Everyone packing heat.  What could possibly go wrong?



Are you on drugs? Huffing spray paint, perhaps?



> Thus is the gun lovers attitude.  No solutions because they refuse to see the problem.  Party on and lock and load.  What a way to go!



Hey, here's a solution you fucknuts could try - when a guy shoots out tires on a car, and shoots into a neighbors apartment through the wall, FUCKING PROSECUTE HIM - even though he is black and under-privileged....


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

Nosmo King said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
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> > Nosmo King said:
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Unlike you, I didn't claim no one thinks that way, I just pointed out I have never met anyone who does. My guess is you haven't either, because sociopaths don't usually care about laws that restrict other people, they ignore them.


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## Uncensored2008 (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> No such thing as a gun lover .
> You have such deep rooted prejudice from the indoctrination you have received that you are incapable of honesty or decency.



I love my Dodge Daytona.

I love shooting.

I love my Smith & Wesson .22 revolber - most accurate handgun I've ever encountered.

Does that count?

Oh, I shoot paper, not people. (actually, i have a spinner target that is a total blast.)


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## westwall (Sep 19, 2013)

Yup!  I love my daughter and wife.
I like the feel of my Colt Single Action Army (manufactured in 1875) as I shoot it at targets.
I like the G forces as I wend my way along a twisty mountain road in my GT40 (made in 1966).
I don't hunt too much anymore 'cause it's a LOT OF WORK!  But I can if need be.
I like a good brandy in the evening before bed.

Pretty much sums up most gun owners I know.  We like and respect our firearms but love?
That's for people.  And the occasional animal...


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## Nosmo King (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
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right.  No such thing as a gun lover.  no such thing as an assault weapon.  gun control can't work.  Back ground checks don't catch 100% of wrong doers so it can't even be made to work.  Guns are not the problem despite the death and carnage left in their wake.  Deny, deny, deny and that makes it easy to ignore.

Pose no solutions, but write a batch of juvenile crap castigating your opposition.  Does that make you feel as if you have made a valid point?  Or is it another arrow in your quiver of ineptitude?


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## Politico (Sep 19, 2013)

Give it a rest. Gun control not working and not being the answer are two different things. Of course there are gun lovers. And of course there are assault weapons. On battlefields.


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## skye (Sep 19, 2013)

More about  the shooter Aaron Alexis...... I am reading that he created a website called Mohammed Salem.

"...Law enforcement officials told NBC News that Alexis created a webpage with the name Mohammed Salem, but they said he never did anything with it. They said they had found nothing else that might indicate any interest in violent jihad or even in Islam."

hmmm .....interesting.

Why did Navy Yard shooter Aaron Alexis create a website called "Mohammed Salem"? | The Daily Caller


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## Connery (Sep 19, 2013)

skye said:


> More about  the shooter Aaron Alexis...... I am reading that he created a website called Mohammed Salem.
> 
> "...Law enforcement officials told NBC News that Alexis created a webpage with the name Mohammed Salem, but they said he never did anything with it. They said they had found nothing else that might indicate any interest in violent jihad or even in Islam."
> 
> ...




  One thing for sure, he is a delusional maniac.


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## skye (Sep 19, 2013)

Connery said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> > More about  the shooter Aaron Alexis...... I am reading that he created a website called Mohammed Salem.
> ...



For sure ...and may be wanna be jihadist on top.


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## Connery (Sep 19, 2013)

skye said:


> Connery said:
> 
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Perhaps, skye, but he has has several problems which should have been dealt with in a more appropriate manner.

 "Twice before he shot and killed 12 people in a rampage at the Washington Navy Yard on Sept. 16, Aaron Alexis was arrested for discharging a firearm - once in his Ft. Worth apartment, and once outside his grandmother's home in Seattle. *Neither time was he prosecuted for a crime.* Now, the question is why not.

According to the Seattle Police Department(SPD) report, on May 7, 2004, Alexis allegedly used a Glock .45 to shoot out the tires of a construction vehicle parked outside the home of a neighbor. After being arrested, Alexis told police he'd fired the gun in an anger-fueled "black out." 

Why wasn't Aaron Alexis prosecuted for previous shooting incidents? - Crimesider - CBS News


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## skye (Sep 19, 2013)

Connery said:


> skye said:
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Oh yes, I agree he had several problems and should have been treated! No doubt.

I am just saying that  I find this new revelation that he had this webpage called Mohammed Salem  and everything that it implies....food for thought?


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## Connery (Sep 19, 2013)

skye said:


> Connery said:
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Oh yes and much like an onion being peeled,  each one of his maniacal fantasies will show his true motivation. I just cannot believe they allowed him to get away with the gun stuff.


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 19, 2013)

Connery said:


> skye said:
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Seattle is a liberal Utopia. They couldn't bring themselves to charge an "innocent" black man simply because he shot out some tires.


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## theliq (Sep 19, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
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> ...



He's FULL OF SHIT then Joe


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## theliq (Sep 19, 2013)

Connery said:


> skye said:
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Then Ban Guns...Connery,this culture,GUN CULTURE.......is bad for the mind,the repercussions are horrendous......but after a couple of days the average Joe, thinks what the fuck......UNTIL THE NEXT TIME.

The question I ask....Do Americans really care about these killings and/or Gun Murders generally.

I personally believe that a decent society,will never really climb off the floor,that has a Gun Culture like in the US, because all these killings(WANTON MURDERS) ARE INDECENT

Ban Guns and you will eliminate Mental Insecurity....which Americans suffer with,It's an addiction and you all really need help.....GUNS ARE A CANCER TO AMERICAN FAMILY LIFE .....  WAKE UP AMERICA......... AND LIVE.   steve


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## theliq (Sep 19, 2013)

skye said:


> Connery said:
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Hi Skye,you make many good points.........as we trawl through another murder  the end result of a long journey,so many want revenge,but there shock and venom only underlines there misunderstanding of life for some in America.

There is so much misinformation spewed around(shit I see enough of it on here)that so many folk with so many reasons have become mentally ill.Your care and understanding and funding is Criminally Low..for the mental health of these people.The Polititians and general population don't care or as we say here  "Don't Give A Stuff"

Well had you maybe this and other occurences sic may never have happened,there could have been checks and balances....but you seem to blame the police for not interceeding at times,I say to you the Police are not Mental Health Care workers. 

American need to resolve the Mental Health needs of some people,but as always the American mentality of EXCECUTING is Cheaper......and the fact that you turn a blind eye to mentally ill folk.

When you turn your back on them remember one thing "THERE BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD.....GO ALL OF US"  steven


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## Spoonman (Sep 19, 2013)

theliq said:


> Connery said:
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there is no gun culture.  the gun culture is a left wing creation to put fear of guns into everyone.  the usa isn't full of crazy gun nuts out shooting everyone up.  this is so blown out of proportion. only .000036 of every gun owned is ever used to kill any one.  a percentage so small  if there wasn't a political agenda it would never even be brought up.  the fact is that 99.999974% of the gun owners have no frigging clue what this gun culture really is. 

Ban guns and you will eliminate mental insecurity? wtf kind of off the wall statement with no factual bearing at all kind of comment is that?  talk about an over emotional, reactionary out of touch with reality statement is that?


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## Spoonman (Sep 19, 2013)

Nosmo King said:


> Spoonman said:
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look at boston, look at Oklahoma city, look at the world trade center.  again you are missing the point.  people who want to kill are going to kill. if they don't have a gun they will use another method. its a simple as that. take away every gun in the world, you still have people with a desire to kill and they will kill.  so you have fixed nothing.  it can be a simple as dipping an m-80 in glue and bb's  light it off you have a mini grenade.  want to make a bigger impression, at a HS football game place a Styrofoam cooler filled with metal shreds surrounding coconut husk filled with gunpowder and a fuse.  people will think its a cooler of sports drinks or something.  light the fuse and walk away.  put on set of blue overalls, make it look like you're a porter. walk into a major train station at rush hour, looking like you are a guy emptying the trash. drop your bomb in a garbage can, walk away, set it off with your cell phone.  I honestly believe you will see larger and more devastating acts if people didn't have guns.  you'd see more Oklahoma cities, more bostons.  you can turn a van into a giant powder keg.  pull into any crowded area, park, walk around the corner and let it blow.  no one will be stopping you.


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## theliq (Sep 19, 2013)

Spoonman said:


> theliq said:
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Spoonie,I know loads of fine Conservative Americans who live and work in Western Australia(in fact I lease one of my properties to them.....by their own admission they are Gun Mad(in a nice way) my mate has a Gun range and sporting club,They love going there and a bbq and grog(beer) afterwards,I watch em on the range and they love their guns big time,more than their wives(well almost).......they give me statistics all the time....and try to get me to fire a weapon.No Chance.

But they all say that they do enjoy living in a Gun Free society,Americans by the fact of owning a Gun,makes them a part of the Gun Culture,as for your statistic of 99.9999974% of Gun owners having no Friggin Clue, then why do they bother to own them???

I'm not out of touch with reality .......I just live in a Gun Free Culture and Society...You should try it,it's great.  Your mate steve


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## theliq (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> All the rants and abuse from the FILTH forigners and their traitor liberal pals will not change the facts.
> In 1997 the UK enacted a complete ban on the ownership and possession of handguns.
> Automatic and semi automatic rifles had been banned a decade or more before.
> As had high cap mags.
> ...



As I said you are full of shit.......don't worry about other countries,sort your own shit out first.

You cannot lecture others.......you have no right


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## Spoonman (Sep 19, 2013)

theliq said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
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you are free to live in your gun free society. It has no appeal to me at all.  I live in no fear of guns here in the states. I have no concern I will be shot. I have no apprehension or anxiety  over it at all.  See you make an assumption the only reason to own a gun is too kill.  because you have no clue.  by your own admission you don't want to even try shooting one.  so you have a negative bias on guns, which makes your perspective on then biased as well.  you're entitled to your own opinion, but your opinion can govern no one other then yourself. you don't have the right to impose your biased opinion on anyone.  A gun owner is not trying to force you to own a gun.  but they are also not going to let your opinion sway their rights.   

but back to my point, you believe the only purpose for a gun is to kill.  I own a few dozen. I shoot a few hundred rounds a week minimum.  not one bullet has ever killed anything.  I don't even hunt.   because you don't understand why someone would want a gun doesn't mean people should not have a gun.  it doesn't mean gun owners are part of this ficticious bang bang shoot them up gun culture.  it's a liberal myth.  it doesn't exist.


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## Spoonman (Sep 19, 2013)

theliq said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > All the rants and abuse from the FILTH forigners and their traitor liberal pals will not change the facts.
> ...



and you have no right to lecture what we do here in America.  you want a voice, become a citizen.  if not, your point of view is nothing more then message board chatter.


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
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> 
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Just as much as the irresponsible gun owner who got their gun stolen and was later used in a crime.

If somebody is going to get raped by a gang of 10 they are pretty much out of luck.  Last I checked gangs like guns.  You think somebody is gonna outgun them?


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
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Well I think most developed countries do.


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
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Should I use the city with the highest homicide rate to represent the US?  Obviously no.  So why does Scotland represent all of the UK?  That's not honest.


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
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It is really?  
Russian homicides by year:
2008: 20,056
2009: 17,681
2010: 13,100
2011: 11,500
That's not dropping fast?

Most recent homicide rate I find for them is 10.2.  So little over 2X ours.  Where did you get your 300% again?  Do you ever bother using real stats?


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## Brain357 (Sep 19, 2013)

Missourian said:


> Brain357 said:
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It's not going to save lives every single time and in every instance.  But you've seen the examples I've given of shooters stopped at reloading.  You want them firing 6 times before reload or 20?  It would save lives and everyone keeps their guns.  Based on the stats they would be just as safe as they were before.  Which is still less safe than not having a gun since your more likely to be shot if you have one, but that's what you want.


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## westwall (Sep 19, 2013)

Connery said:


> skye said:
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They want them to do bad things it seems sometimes, they certainly don't do anything about it.


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## westwall (Sep 19, 2013)

theliq said:


> Spoonman said:
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Sure thing Steve,

From the Australian Bureau of Criminology - 2010

 Actually, if the Australian Bureau of Criminology can be believed, Americans would be insane to concern themselves with what non-Americans think about American gun rights.

In 2002  five years after enacting its gun ban  the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent).

Even Australias Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:

In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.

Sexual assault  Australias equivalent term for rape  increased 29.9 percent.

Overall, Australias violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.

Moreover, Australia and the United States  where no gun-ban exists  both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, Americas rate dropped 31.7 percent.
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.

Sexual assault  Australias equivalent term for rape  increased 29.9 percent.

Overall, Australias violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.

Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.

So, if the USA follows Australias lead in banning guns, it should expect a 42 percent increase in violent crime, a higher percentage of murders committed with a gun, and three times more rape.

The International Crime Victims Survey, conducted by Leiden University in Holland, found that England and Wales ranked second overall in violent crime among industrialized nations. Twenty-six percent of English citizens  roughly one-quarter of the population  have been victimized by violent crime. Australia led the list with more than 30 percent of its population victimized. The United States didnt even make the top 10&#8243; list of industrialized nations whose citizens were victimized by crime.

Looks like banning guns in Oz worked real good.


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## Missourian (Sep 19, 2013)

westwall said:


> theliq said:
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^^^Excellent information.


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## theliq (Sep 19, 2013)

Spoonman said:


> theliq said:
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Spoonie,the trouble is Women,Children and Men...DO GET KILLED/MURDERED by firearms as we have see in the US all to frequently.......I do understand you but I just cannot agree with your and others rationale that there is safety in everyone carrying a Gun.

It's silly to imply I'm a "Liberal Myth" I just feel it's safer for society in general not to have them.....it's certainly NOT bias opinion in my case because I make my own judgement.....It is ridiculous for you to say that I believe the only purpose for gun is to KILL.

Spoonie have a Great Day ...steve


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
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Are rape victims irresponsible? Does it make you feel smart to pretend that you are an idiot?


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
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I think you are a racist and a sexist, but I could be wrong, you might not be that smart.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
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Yet you continually do.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
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Dropping fast compared to what? According to these numbers it is slightly lower than it was in 1994 while ours is roughly half what is was then according to the FBI. Which is dropping faster?



Brain357 said:


> Most recent homicide rate I find for them is 10.2.  So little over 2X ours.  Where did you get your 300% again?  Do you ever bother using real stats?



Did you look at the chart rightwinger posted? I was using his numbers, if you have a problem with them, take it up with him, not me.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 19, 2013)

westwall said:


> theliq said:
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I think I will pull a rightwinger here.

It doesn't matter if people are less safe as long as the guns are out of the hands of innocent people.


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## Politico (Sep 20, 2013)

I love it when people use thel and of oz as a benchmark. Different dispersion, culture, people and 1o times fewer of them. 42% here is being optimistically low.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> [
> 
> I will tell you why if you wish.
> Because it was an extremely violent society.
> ...



Guy, quite honestly, it sounds like you are a miserable, unhappy person no matter where you live.  

I work for a British company.  Deal with British folks all the time.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> All the rants and abuse from the FILTH forigners and their traitor liberal pals will not change the facts.
> In 1997 the UK enacted a complete ban on the ownership and possession of handguns.
> Automatic and semi automatic rifles had been banned a decade or more before.
> As had high cap mags.
> ...



Because it isn't true. 

The last mass shooting in the UK was in 2010.  The last one before that was 1996.  

List of massacres in Great Britain and Northern Ireland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We've had two in the last year.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> [
> 
> Liar .
> I'm extremely happy in the USA as I have repeatedly told you.
> ...



Naw, man, that's more your speed.  Before you claimed your disability check and moved into the double wide.


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## Geaux4it (Sep 20, 2013)

Look- We dont care about the UK or any of those other countries. This is AMERICA for which she stands. We don't want to be like those countries from which we fled. I have an idea, whey don't all you loons that love the Euro go the hell back there? 

Leave this terrible gun loving country to us. I'm sure we'll get by without you loons.

LMAO

-Geaux


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## JoeB131 (Sep 20, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> Look- We dont care about the UK or any of those other countries. This is AMERICA for which she stands. We don't want to be like those countries from which we fled. I have an idea, whey don't all you loons that love the Euro go the hell back there?
> 
> Leave this terrible gun loving country to us. I'm sure we'll get by without you loons.
> 
> ...



The 65% of households that don't have guns in their homes are pretty sick and tired of living in fear of the minority of you who can't control yourselves.  

90% of the populace wants the kind of background checks that would have kept Aaron Alexis from buying a gun last Saturday.  

Yes, he bought his gun last SATURDAY, well after two previous shooting incidents AND the police were called to his hotel because he reported hearing voices!

It seems to me that if you gun whacks can't keep guns out of the hands of criminals and the insane, you know, because "Freedom", then you've made the argument as to why no one should have guns.  

No, wait, let's give guns to blind people, too!


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## Geaux4it (Sep 20, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > Look- We dont care about the UK or any of those other countries. This is AMERICA for which she stands. We don't want to be like those countries from which we fled. I have an idea, whey don't all you loons that love the Euro go the hell back there?
> ...



The 65% of households that don't have guns in their homes are pretty sick and tired of living in fear of the minority of you who can't control yourselves.  

*Wrong*

90% of the populace wants the kind of background checks that would have kept Aaron Alexis from buying a gun last Saturday.  

*No they don't which is why the Senate bill got shoved up the Communist arse*

Yes, he bought his gun last SATURDAY, well after two previous shooting incidents AND the police were called to his hotel because he reported hearing voices!

*Should of been in jail and not on the streets. No brainer *

It seems to me that if you gun whacks can't keep guns out of the hands of criminals and the insane, you know, because "Freedom", then you've made the argument as to why no one should have guns.  

*No, you have made the argument that you don't know what the hell you are talking about. Moreover, it's clear you want to enable criminals so like I said, why don't you go to a country you feel safer in? *

-Geaux


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## Kondor3 (Sep 20, 2013)

*Thread Summary:*

1. Shooting.

2. Fleshing-out the details.

3. Guns are bad.

4. No they're not.

5. We should ban private gun ownership.

6. Try it - the Constitution dares you.

7. We'll find a way around it, because the need is so great.

8. No you won't, and we'll fight you if you try.

9. We shall see.

10. Issue goes dormant again until the next shooting incident.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 20, 2013)

The Senate Bill lost because the NRA is good at terrorizing congressmen.  

Now we need to take every Congressman who voted against that bill and get in his face with Aaron Alexis.


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## Geaux4it (Sep 20, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> The Senate Bill lost because the NRA is good at terrorizing congressmen.
> 
> Now we need to take every Congressman who voted against that bill and get in his face with Aaron Alexis.



Why would they be afraid of the NRA if 90% of those that vote were in favor??

Does not compute

-Geaux


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## JoeB131 (Sep 20, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > The Senate Bill lost because the NRA is good at terrorizing congressmen.
> ...



You mean why would they be afraid of an organization that has shown a willingness to dump millions into races with no regard for the truth?  

Hmmmm....


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## JoeB131 (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> ```
> 
> ```
> 
> ...



You mean other than the NRA fought against background checks tooth and nail?


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 20, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> JoeB131 said:
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*90% of the populace wants the kind of background checks that would have kept Aaron Alexis from buying a gun last Saturday*. 

he passed a background check


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## JoeB131 (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> [
> 
> Here you go douche nozzle.
> Mass Murder - Spree killers - Michael Atheton - Derick Bird - Michael Ryan - Thomas Hamilton - Murder UK



Okay, let's look at your list.  

Kills Years Name


17 1996 THOMAS HAMILTON

16 1987 Michael Ryan 

12 2010 DERRICK BIRD

7 1999 RICHARD FIELDING

5 1986 GEORGE STEPHENSON 
5 2003 Kenneth Regan & William Horncy 
5 1985 Jeremy Bamber

So only THREE in double digits in the last 26 years.  

So let's just look at the last year or so in the US. 

Sixteen US Mass Shootings Happened in 2012, Leaving at Least 88 Dead | The Nation



February 22, 2012Five people were killed in at a Korean health spa in Norcross, Georgia, when a man opened fire inside the facility in an act suspected to be related to domestic violence.

February 26, 2012Multiple gunmen began firing into a nightclub crown in Jackson, Tennessee, killing one person and injuring 20 others.

February 27, 2012Three students at Chardon High School in rural Ohio were killed when a classmate opened fire.

March 8, 2012Two people were killed and seven wounded at a psychiatric hospital in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, when a gunman entered the hospital with two semiautomatic handguns and began firing.

March 31, 2012A gunman opened fire on a crowd of mourners at a North Miami, Florida, funeral home, killing two people and injuring 12 others.

April 2, 2012A 43-year-old former student at Oikos University in Oakland, California, walked into his former school and killed seven people, execution-style. Three people were wounded.

April 6, 2012Two men went on a deadly shooting spree in Tulsa, Oklahoma, shooting black men at random in an apparently racially motivated attack. Three men died and two were wounded.

May 29, 2012A man in Seattle, Washington, opened fire in a coffee shop and killed five people and then himself.

July 9, 2012At a soccer tournament in Wilmington, Delaware, three people were killed, including a 16-year-old player and the event organizer, when multiple gunmen began firing shots, apparently targeting the organizer.

July 20, 2012James Holmes enters a midnight screening of The Dark Knight Rises and opens fire with a semi-automatic weapon; twelve people are killed and fifty-eight are wounded.

August 5, 2012A white supremacist and former Army veteran shot six people to death inside a Sikh temple in suburban Milwaukee, Wisconsin, before killing himself.

August 14, 2012Three people were killed at Texas A&M University when a 35-year-old man went on a shooting rampage; one of the dead was a police officer.

September 27, 2012A 36-year-old man who had just been laid off from Accent Signage Systems in Minneapolis, Minnesota, entered his former workplace and shot five people to death, and wounded three others before killing himself.

October 21, 201245-year-old Radcliffe Frankin Haughton shot three women to death, including his wife, Zina Haughton, and injured four others at a spa in Brookfield, Wisconsin, before killing himself.

December 11, 2012A 22-year-old began shooting at random at a mall near Portland, Oregon, killing two people and then himself.

December 14, 2012One man, and possibly more, murders a reported twenty-six people at an elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut, including twenty children, before killing himself.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


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Yeah, nothing terrorizes these assholes more than losing their jobs.


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## Geaux4it (Sep 20, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
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But why would they lose their jobs if 90% of voters wanted B/U checks?

Illogical

-Geaux


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## Geaux4it (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> ```
> 
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> 
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Exactly- There are ~4 million NRA members. Let's assume that 75% actually vote, how could that small minority overturn the will of 90% of voters who wanted background checks? 

-Geaux


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## JoeB131 (Sep 20, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



Stop being obtuse.  

10% can throw a politician out if they are really serious about it and you know it.  

All they have to do is distract the other 90% with bullshit.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> ```
> 
> ```
> 
> ...



Don't be naive. 

The people who pay for their campaigns. 

Who do you think is going to get facetime with your Congressman. You or the guy who wrote him a $1000 check?


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## Geaux4it (Sep 20, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Now, that is genuine


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 20, 2013)

jon_berzerk said:


> [
> 
> *90% of the populace wants the kind of background checks that would have kept Aaron Alexis from buying a gun last Saturday*.
> 
> he passed a background check



ANd that proves that the backgournd checks aren't thorough enough.  

It's why we don't put a bicycle chain on the front doors of Fort Knox, guy.  

It took the media less than a day to figure out how crazy this guy was.  

Yet someone who was selling him a gun really didn't care.


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## Geaux4it (Sep 20, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > ```
> ...



Then why don't the left loons recall these congressman who ignore the 90% like patriots did in Colorado?

-Geaux


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## JoeB131 (Sep 20, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
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No, guy, it's an accurate description of everything wrong with American Politics.  

The wealthy have too much influence and the electorate is too dumb to notice.


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## Geaux4it (Sep 20, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



You mean the same media who said there were 2 shooters and the thug had an AR-15?

Wow, I'm on the edge of my seat here

-Geaux


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
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When?  Your responses seem to lack any substance now.  Guess your losing.


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 20, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
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> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...



it could be that media 

or it could be CNN when faced with the realization 

that it was a shotgun 

instantly developed a new class the *AR-15 shotgun*

these f ers will stop at nothing to promote the cause 


?AR-15 shotgun?: Did CNN let noted gun expert Piers Morgan write its chyron text? | Twitchy


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## JoeB131 (Sep 20, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
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Were they wrong about him being crazy or not?


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## JoeB131 (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> JoeB131 said:
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> > Geaux4it said:
> ...



Well, I did vote for Republicans for years until I realized they only give a fuck about the rich. 

But I guess if we are like you and pretend you are rich on the internets while you sit in your double wide, you can rationalize voting for them.  As long as you get to keep your gun...


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
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Yes clearly racist against all races equally.  You clearly think very little of this country which explains why so many right policies are making us closer to being a 3rd world country.


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
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The stock market is hitting new highs, isn't that all the right cares about?


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
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> > Pauli007001 said:
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I haven't proposed a gun ban so why ask me?


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Not one of the fanatics will address the point, 10 fold increase in mass shootings after a gun ban ?
> Must be in convienient to their totalitarian dogma , so they ignore it .



Sure I'll play.  Mass shootings have disappeared since Australia enacted new laws.
Gun control: After Connecticut shooting, could Australia's laws provide a lesson?


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## koshergrl (Sep 20, 2013)

Australia isn't the US.
Sorry, fail.


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## Spoonman (Sep 20, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> Australia isn't the US.
> Sorry, fail.



and it.s not like they had mass shootings before the laws


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> Australia isn't the US.
> Sorry, fail.



Neither is the uk.


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

Spoonman said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Australia isn't the US.
> ...



Yes they did.


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## koshergrl (Sep 20, 2013)

It doesn't matter, completely irrelevant. They don't have the gun culture, the gang culture, the border issues, the population or the huge cities that we do.


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
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> > Spoonman said:
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They had several that is why they enacted gun control.

Uk isn't an island?


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
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We are actually closer to Australia in population density per square mile.  You need to check your facts
Australia 7
United Kingdom 650
USA 84


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
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So your saying Australia's population is nice and evenly distributed?   Really?
Population of Australia, Demographics of Australia
Given how often you are proven wrong I think it can be assumed your wrong about guns.


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## westwall (Sep 20, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
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> > koshergrl said:
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And they have had them since.  Or doesn't the shooting up of the police station by the biker gang count?


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 20, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> The Senate Bill lost because the NRA is good at terrorizing congressmen.
> 
> Now we need to take every Congressman who voted against that bill and get in his face with Aaron Alexis.



The Senate bill lost because you  there aren't enough scum sucking pigs for you to get your way.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 20, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
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Why would I be afraid of Bloomberg, he lost big time in Colorado.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 20, 2013)

[MENTION]i[/MENTION]





westwall said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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> > Spoonman said:
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Yeah but that's different because , because  , because. , mass shootings are ok after guns are criminalized!!
The people who are killed in post gun ban mass shootings are less dead !!!!


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 20, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
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> ...



I see how it works now, it only counts as a mass shooting it it is in the US.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 20, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Geaux4it said:
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Is that how Obama won?


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 20, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> jon_berzerk said:
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> ...



How does it prove background checks are not thorough when he had never been convicted of a crime and had never been adjudicated as mentally ill? Isn't your beef with the fact that he got away with doing bad things and being crazy? Why blame guns for that?


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 20, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Geaux4it said:
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People keep saying that, yet the numbers keep proving you wrong. For example, Bloomberg and the anti gun nuts outspent the pro recall side in Colorado by 3 to 1, yet they lost. If the wealthy really had all that power they would have won. Perhaps the problem isn't money, perhaps the problem is you picked the losing side.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 20, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
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Polls show that support for gun control went down this week, how am I losing?


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 20, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
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> > Brain357 said:
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It is all Obama cares about, is he the right?


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 20, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
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They had a single, really bad, year. That is a statistical anomaly, not a trend.

By the way, assaults have increased by 40% and rapes have increased by 20% since the gun ban.


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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Yes actually you did.
So you must mean the % of population living in urban areas.
Australia: 82%
United Kingdom: 80%
USA: 79%

Well look at that Australia actually has more of it's population packed into cities.  Go figure.  It seems you don't bother looking at any facts or statistics before speaking.  That is pretty typical of the pro-gunner.


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
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Just one bad year huh?  Well clearly it was worse than others, but it's a pretty good list of shootings for a small country:

1980's forward
Joseph Schwab - 1987, Schwab shot dead 5 people in and around the Kimberley region in Western Australia before being shot dead by police.
Hoddle Street massacre - Armed with two rifles and a shotgun, Julian Knight shot 7 people dead and wounded another 19 in 1987 before surrendering to authorities.
Queen Street massacre - Armed with a sawn-off rifle, Frank Vitkovic roamed the Australia Post building killing 8 and wounding 5, also in 1987. When the weapon was finally wrestled from him, he committed suicide by jumping out of a nearby window.
Surry Hills massacre - Paul Anthony Evers killed 5 people with a 12-gauge shotgun at a public housing precinct in Surry Hills in 1990 before surrendering to police.
Strathfield massacre - In 1991 Wade Frankum killed 7 people and wounded 6 others with a large knife and an SKS before turning the gun on himself when he realised he could not escape.
Central Coast Massacre - Malcolm Baker killed 6 people and injured another with a shotgun in 1992 before being arrested by police.
Port Arthur massacre - In 1996, armed with two semi-automatic rifles, Martin Bryant killed 35 people around Port Arthur and wounded 21 before being caught by police the next day following an overnight siege.

Here is one I see after the laws:
Monash University shooting - In October 2002, Huan Yun Xiang, a student, shot his classmates and teacher, killing two and injuring five.

Not enough killing for you pro-gun guys to call it mass, but I would.


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
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You guys can have him for all I care.


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

westwall said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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> ...



That sounds like gang violence, not a mass shooting of innocents.


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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> > Quantum Windbag said:
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Well your sides hands keep getting bloodier.  I would call that losing.  You obviously don't care.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 20, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
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> > Brain357 said:
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I didn't say they had never had a shooting because, unlike the idiots that insist that the law absolutely stopped shootings in Australia, I don't need to lie to make my point. There were 13 shootings in 1995-1996, which makes it a single, really bad, year.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 20, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
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> > Brain357 said:
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Do I care about the deaths? Yes, but I also understand that the government is not going to fix it by taking away people's rights.


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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I think they say it stopped mass shootings, not shootings completely.  Do you mean 87 was the bad year?  Looks pretty bad to me.


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## TemplarKormac (Sep 20, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
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> > Brain357 said:
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Uh-oh. That hope and change must have failed you! That is what you get for putting a man like him into office in the first place. Can't say I have much pity for people who won't think before they vote.


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

TemplarKormac said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



Well I'm an independent so you hardly know who I voted for.  Can't say I love War McCain or Money bags Romney would have been any better though.  We seem to be short on real leaders.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 20, 2013)

```

```



Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



My hands are clean.
Though your side has voiced the desire to murder my children, and got away with the threat!!!
Wow!! A fanatic of the Obamacult voices the desire to shoot children en mass and all is good!!
Can you say HYPOCRITE?

If you liberals create a few more criminal empowerment zones you might succeed in your threat to kill the children of all NRA members.
The threat YOUR SIDE celebrates and agrees with!!


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> ```
> 
> ```
> 
> ...



You sure are demented.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 20, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



But you still refer to non Obamacult members as "YOUR SIDE"!!
You are a fanatical liberal totalitarian of the obamacult who is involved in the plan to murder the children of all gun owners and NRA members according to the word of your god.
That is a fact.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 20, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > ```
> ...



Are you denying the threat was made?


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...



The your side is the pro-gun paranoiders.  Obama has nothing to do with it.  You should probably stop talking so crazy.  It really has no place here or anywhere.


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



Yes obviously.  I haven't heard anyone threaten to kill anyone actually.  I don't even think most the pro-gunners on here would kill anyone.  You might be the exception if you keep talking crazy though.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 20, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Again, are you denying that "YOUR SIDE" has voiced the desire to commit a mass killing targeting the children of gun owners and non gun owning NRA members?
Odd how no arrest was made!!


----------



## TemplarKormac (Sep 20, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
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My gosh, you sounded so much like a liberal, I could hardly tell you were an independent. It's quite odd all the independents I've run across lately tend to espouse liberal policies. I call these people closet liberals. That little quip was dripping with disappointment, Brian. "You can have him for all I care."


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
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I am saying I've never heard anything so crazy nor would I ever support anything so dumb.  You should really stop talking so crazy.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 20, 2013)

```

```



Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
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It was an anti gun fanatical liberal totalitarian of the Obamacult who made the threat.
Not a gun owner.
Or pro gunner as you call them, in your fanatical and murderous hatred!!

A fanatic, like you , has very recently and very publicly threatened to and encouraged others, to begin a programme of murdering the children of gun owners and non gun owning NRA members.
Your denial is clearly support.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 20, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
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That's what the nazis say about the holocaust .
You are clearly involved in the plot.
Sick murdering fuck .


----------



## koshergrl (Sep 20, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
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"
Heres what University of Kansas associate journalism professor David Guth tweeted on Monday:
#NavyYardShooting The blood is on the hands of the #NRA. Next time, let it be YOUR sons and daughters. Shame on you. May God damn you.
  David Guth (@DWGuth) September 16, 2013​
Read more:  Gun-grabbing University of Kansas prof wishes death on children of NRA members | The Daily Caller
​


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

TemplarKormac said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...



I'm sure everyone is liberal to you.  That Bush was quite the conservative wasn't he?  Took that balanced budget from Clinton and spent spent spent.  What is the difference between a Democrat and a Republican anyhow?  They both seem to be owned by corporations and do very little good for anyone.


----------



## koshergrl (Sep 20, 2013)

"
_&#8220;Hell no, hell no, I do not regret that Tweet,&#8221; he said. &#8220;I don&#8217;t take it back one bit.&#8221;_​ _Guth also doubled down on the statement when other  Twitter users pressed him, suggesting it was was shameful to call for  the death of children._​ _&#8220;God&#8217;s justice takes many forms,&#8221; he tweeted in response&#8230;_​
Read more:  Gun-grabbing University of Kansas prof wishes death on children of NRA members | The Daily Caller
​


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



While an ahole thing to say, that's not a threat.

He should be praying to God for no more shootings.


----------



## koshergrl (Sep 20, 2013)

Then freakoutnation rushes to support him:

"
Chancellor Bernadette Gray-Little issued the following statement regarding Guth:
&#8220;In order to prevent disruptions to the learning  environment for students, the School of Journalism and the university, I  have directed Provost Jeffrey Vitter to place Associate Professor Guth  on indefinite administrative leave pending a review of the entire  situation. Professor Guth&#8217;s classes will be taught by other faculty  members.&#8221;​ Most of  us can understand the university&#8217;s position, but Guth is  correct in that if Wayne LaPierre&#8217;s children &#8212; if he has any &#8212; were shot  down in Newtown, Connecticut, he would likely see things more clearly,  from the eyes of a victim&#8217;s family."


http://freakoutnation.com/2013/09/2...publicans-demanded-his-removal-over-nra-tweet


I don't know why anyone is surprised that it's considered normal for progressives to wish death upon the children of their political opponents. It's just a tiny glimmer of what we'll get if they ever are allowed to gain complete control.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 20, 2013)

I'm betting one Brian might be a liberal professor who is above the law.......
Like the child rapist Roman Polanski, liberal Hero !!


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 20, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



You said no such threat was made , fucking liar .


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## koshergrl (Sep 20, 2013)

Peter Singer!

Richard Dawkins!!


----------



## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> I'm betting one Brian might be a liberal professor who is above the law.......
> Like the child rapist Roman Polanski, liberal Hero !!



I wish I was a professor.  That is a good gig.  Speaking of child rapists, isn't many on your side Catholic?


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



For one I have no idea who that guy is.  And second it's not a threat.  Get yourself a dictionary.  It's a jerk thing to say, but not a threat.  First you don't know that the UK is an island and now you don't know what a threat is.  I don't think you have any place in this forum.


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## koshergrl (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



Of course he's a liar. And the Sac Dem Party dude tweeted that he wished horrible lingering death and debilitating illness on the children of a woman who dared to challenge Obamacare.

These people always target babies. And they know very well they're giving nutjobs ideas when they broadcast this garbage, too. They're hoping for a loon to walk into a school right now. They're PLANNING on it happening. And they're excited about it.


----------



## Pauli007001 (Sep 20, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> Then freakoutnation rushes to support him:
> 
> "
> Chancellor Bernadette Gray-Little issued the following statement regarding Guth:
> ...



I have received thousands of death threats from these fanatics.
They have threatened to murder and rape my kids , force me to watch as they rape my wife.
Banning guns would sure help them overcome their fear.

Idiots don't realize, I don't use a firearm for personal defense in my US residences.


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
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You really are a very paranoid bunch.  Everyone is out to get you right?  There must be some name for this sickness you all have.


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## koshergrl (Sep 20, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



"Next time, let it be YOUR sons and daughters."

Yeah. We're the sick fucks.


              Amanda Carpenter          @*amandacarpenter*           GOP beat gun control, changed Obama's mind on Syria, is holding the line on amnesty. We can defund Obamacare, too!




                   allanbrauer          @*allanbrauer*  
@*amandacarpenter* May your children all die from debilitating, painful and incurable diseases.
9:20 AM - 20 Sep 2013 
​


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 20, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
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> > Brain357 said:
> ...



You think the UK is AN ISLAND?
You are a complete retard.

The UK is a series of about 140 islands and 6 counties of the 32 counties of mainland Ireland.

You think you can tell me about the UK?
You lying liberal scumbag!!!

I was born in, raised in, educated in, travelled extensively in, served in the military of , to this day maintain 2 homes in and continue to pay tax in the UK.

You lying retarded obamacultist murder plot scumbag.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 20, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
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Every day from these fanatics.
Thankfully we still have the right of self defense!!

My kukri will teach them a lesson.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 20, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
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> > Pauli007001 said:
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It's called listening to you murderous baby killing fanatics making your vile threats.
Retard.
The UK is not an island, retard.


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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> > Pauli007001 said:
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It's just as much an island as Australia.  

Born in?  So your not even an American.  Go figure.


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> koshergrl said:
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> > Brain357 said:
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Now the first threat I have heard.  And wow it's from a pro-gunner.  Hmmmmm


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 20, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm betting one Brian might be a liberal professor who is above the law.......
> ...



Mmmmmm TED KENNEDY?
All that catholic cash paid to liberals............
The papists are libs.
Just like all those unionized paedo schoolteachers, 17 times more likely to diddle kids than the clergy and the unions defend it!!

Nambla is a central part of the liberal cult us it not?


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 20, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
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Threat? From me?
Where?
None.
Just you and your threat to murder the children of gun owners.
I will ensure my kids are safe from the murderous intent of liberals, gun grabbers and those other nefarious groups under the liberal umbrella.

That's why I keep my Kukri nearby.
It is named VISHNU!! The great protector!!


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## Brain357 (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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I'm so glad your not an American.


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## theliq (Sep 20, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
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Now For A Few FACTS

Deaths by Firearms/Homicides 2010-2011(For The IDIOT Pro Gun Lobby,AKA DEALERS IN DEATH)

Deaths per 100,000 pop

USA................3.60

AUSTRALIA.....0.13

UK...................0.04

In Australia 58% of Gun Deaths are caused by someome living in the same dwelling.

The Death rate has fallen each year from 2000

The NRA was deported from Australia some years ago and are banned due to the fact they lied,the are a discredited organization.FULL STOP.

Americans feed off their Bullshit,We kick them out as undesirables

You only need to compare American states that have gun control to see how much lower the death rate is(with one or two exceptions)

As this thread is about Gun Deaths,I will leave the discussion about Rapes ect to another forum.

Only an Idiot would think,having Guns would be safer.....THE FACTS PROVE IT.

The US really has a 3rd world mentality on the Gun Issue....reading the Pro-Death Lobby on here is like being in Afghanistan,Nigeria or South American Countries.

I'm theliq I stand predominate...WITHOUT A GUNAlways


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 20, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


No I'm not American.
I live mostly in America though, in Boston and Marshfield MA mostly, I fish off the cape, from sandwich marina.

I have a bit of a camp in mid Maine for hunting and angling.

I pay a lot of tax in the USA, as does my American wife .
We have a happy life raising our American children.
The ones you want to kill.........


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 20, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
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I'm so glad I'm not an Obamacult babykiller.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 20, 2013)

theliq said:


> Brain357 said:
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Listen hater .
1997 firearms act.
Before it?
10 mass shootings in 88 years.

After it, 14 mass shootings in 16 years.

Those are the facts from the UK.

Australia is a massive country with a tiny population.
What is good for Australia May not be good for the USA.
You don't live here, keep yer fucking nose out.

How's that suit ya?
Ignorant dunny sucking slimeball.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 20, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



December 2014!!!!
Must kill you!!
You thought only Obamacult members were being imported?

I will be a British citizen.
A Zambian citizen
And a US citizen!!
With the right to a Zimbabwean passport and an Irish passport.
With a greater knowledge of geography than you will ever have.


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## theliq (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



I'm Glad I'm NOT AN AMERICANOoooooooo Yeah


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## theliq (Sep 20, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Hater I am not.............You ARE............What has size to with IT...it's population% Moron


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## JoeB131 (Sep 21, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...



He was involved in THREE violent incidents, two of them involving guns and he got thrown out of the Navy for being a nutbag.  Oh, yeah, and the cops went to his residence after he reported hearing VOICES IN HIS HEAD.  

All of which the Media found out within a DAY of the shooting.  

In short, the background checks are inadequate.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 21, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> [
> 
> Were you wrong about the 10 fold increase in mass shootings in the UK post gun ban?
> Can you explain why the increase?
> ...



Didn't happen. 

The UK is one of the safest countries in the world, with only 48 gun murders and 658 total murders, compared to the US with 16,000 murders, 11,000 with guns.  

"How to Lie with Statistics" might be a fun game, but the numbers really don't carry you over the line, bud.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 21, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...



I don't know, do you all hear voices in your heads and shoot at your neighbors?  

Because this guy did! 

And he was able to get a gun, anyway.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 21, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Odd how Joe Always disappears when challenged on his lies and bullshit!!
> That fear of facts that the fanatics all suffer from!!



Well, it's called "Going to WOrk". 

It's kind of like collecting your check from the gummit, but you actually have to go somewhere and do something constructive to get it. 

You should try it some time, Double-Wide, It's really kind of fun.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 21, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> It doesn't matter, completely irrelevant. They don't have *the gun culture, *the gang culture, the border issues, the population or the huge cities that we do.



Hey, maybe the first way you end a GUN CULTURE is to TAKE AWAY THE DAMNED GUNS!

What a concept, Koch-er Girl.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 21, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



No, go back and read what I sad. He gave a list over a 30 year period of British Mass shootings.  (Most of which happened BEFORE the Brits tightened their gun laws.)

I proved that we can beat those number IN A FREAKIN YEAR.  Largely because we let crazy people have guns.  And Criminals.  And blind people, apparently.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 21, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



It happened.
10 mass shootings in 88 years before the firearms act .
14 in the 16 years after.
Those are the figures.

The same will happen here.
Don't presume to tell me about the UK.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 21, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



 I gave 104 years of history.
In 88 of those years there were 10 mass shootings.
In the 16 since the 1997 firearms act there have been 14 mass shootings.
You bead to learn to count.
Loser.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 21, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> [
> 
> It happened.
> 10 mass shootings in 88 years before the firearms act .
> ...



I heard they threw a party when you left, and put up a big banner that said, "Don't Come Back, Wanker!!!"  

But, sorry, man, 48 gun murders compared to 11,101.  that's actually still pretty awesome. 

And 14 mass shootings in 16 years? Compared to 14 mass shooting a YEAR in this country.  Again.  Still pretty awesome.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 21, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> [
> 
> I gave 104 years of history.
> In 88 of those years there were 10 mass shootings.
> ...



One more time, Double Wide. 

14 mass shooting in 16 years is a HELL of a lot better than 14 mass shootings a YEAR, which is what we tend to have.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 21, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



 I gave 104 years of history.
In 88 of those years there were 10 mass shootings.
In the 16 since the 1997 firearms act there have been 14 mass shootings.
You bead to learn to count.
Loser.


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## skookerasbil (Sep 21, 2013)

We don't have a gun problem......we have a nut problem.

And anyway......philosophy about gun bans/laws = gay.


Harvard University just completed a study, published in the *Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy.* Here is the complete research paper >>>

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf



What did they conclude?


*more guns = less crimes*




Here is a summary of their conclusions >>>>


*Many people believe that owning guns only increases the amount of crime.  However, a recent study published in the Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy concluded that there is a negative correlation between gun ownership and violent crime in countries internationally.  In other words, the more guns the less crime.  The study showed that nations with strict gun control laws have substantially higher murder rates than those who do not.  In fact, the 9 European nations with the lowest gun ownership rate have a combined murder rate that is three times that of the nine European nations with the highest gun ownership rate. *







Gun grabber limpwristers like to tell tall stories.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 21, 2013)

```

```



JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > [
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You didn't provide supporting evidence if your claim , prove I live in a doublewide, or cease with the vile lies.

You are arguing a false premise.

The 10 fold increase in mass shootings in the UK after the gun ban.

Could I make it any easier?
It's not comparison.
It's showing what happens after a gun ban!!

Liar.


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## skookerasbil (Sep 21, 2013)




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## JoeB131 (Sep 21, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> [
> 
> I gave 104 years of history.
> In 88 of those years there were 10 mass shootings.
> ...



14 Mass shootings in 16 years.  - Bad. 

14 mass shootings A YEAR - Really, really bad and kind of unacceptable.


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## skookerasbil (Sep 21, 2013)

Want a glimpse into how nutty these gun grabber people are?


"The FBI statistics are biased toward pro-gun!"



Check out this interview of a radical gun grabber >>>>


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNb34vPqrN0#at=257]Debating A Gun Control Fanatic - YouTube[/ame]



These people want bans on knives.......and I mean all knives, even kitchen knives. He even says he would like to see nails banned!!! These gun grabbing people were dropped on their heads multiple times as children.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 21, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Odd how Joe Always disappears when challenged on his lies and bullshit!!
> ...



I have proven beyond a shadow of doubt that those claims by you are lies.
For starters I'm a non citizen.
Not eligible for any welfare.
But you have shown your inability to debate by repeating lies in order to avoid arguing facts.
It's a fanatic thing.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 21, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> ```
> 
> ```
> 
> ...



No, it's showing how saying "Ten Fold" instead of "Doubled" sounds more sinster, even if it means the same thing.  

Fact is, the British banned guns, and they have VERY FEW gun deaths and mass shootings (which have become more common because guns have gotten more deadly). 

We let crazy people, criminals and even the fuckin' BLIND get guns without background checks, and we have 32,000 gun deaths a YEAR.


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## skookerasbil (Sep 21, 2013)

*Does Owning Guns Reduce Crime?*

Apr 09, 2013


*Many people believe that owning guns only increases the amount of crime.  However, a recent study published in the Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy concluded that there is a negative correlation between gun ownership and violent crime in countries internationally.  In other words, the more guns the less crime.  The study showed that nations with strict gun control laws have substantially higher murder rates than those who do not.  In fact, the 9 European nations with the lowest gun ownership rate have a combined murder rate that is three times that of the nine European nations with the highest gun ownership rate.*


Does Owning Guns Reduce Crime?





*HARVARD UNIVERSITY RESEARCH  >   JoeB philosophy*


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## skookerasbil (Sep 21, 2013)

[/URL][/IMG]


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## skookerasbil (Sep 21, 2013)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ooa98FHuaU0&feature=player_embedded]Choose Your Own Crime Stats - YouTube[/ame]


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## JoeB131 (Sep 21, 2013)

Just checking to see if SpamBot is adding anything to the conversation. 

He isn't.


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## skookerasbil (Sep 21, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Just checking to see if SpamBot is adding anything to the conversation.
> 
> He isn't.




Hey.....what can I say s0n? Some USMessage Board members are in here for conversation. Im in here to educate those who are looking for facts. Gun control is simply another liberal ruse and I am very astute about exposing that. Reasonable people can plainly see which is more credible? Statistical facts or emotional rants.


Later s0n.....Im off to the range!!! ( really)


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## skookerasbil (Sep 21, 2013)

From Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy ( April 2013)......complete research paper........

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf


Conclusions definitive.....more guns = less crimes. The evidence is overwhelming in favor of a society with more guns, not less.


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## skookerasbil (Sep 21, 2013)

[/URL][/IMG]


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## JoeB131 (Sep 21, 2013)

skookerasbil said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Just checking to see if SpamBot is adding anything to the conversation.
> ...



But your penis will still be tiny.  

Repeating the same discredited NRA propaganda is not exposing facts.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 21, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > ```
> ...



If I told you a banana was yellow would you say it wasn't true because your apple is green?

The UK had very few shootings BEFORE they banned guns.

There are more shootings in the UK SINCE guns were banned.

Gun bans CAUSED more crime, more mass shootings , more robbery in the UK since the gun ban.
Ten fold is not doubled it is ten times more.
10 in 88 years.
One every 8.8 years.
14 in 16 years, almost ten times more!!
Ten fold.

Your dishonesty is becoming legend!!

Soon time for you to dissapear, to "work"!!???
Every time your dishonesty and stupidity is shown........


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## JoeB131 (Sep 21, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> [
> 
> If I told you a banana was yellow would you say it wasn't true because your apple is green?
> 
> ...



Not true and you know it.  

And, yeah, I have to go to my second job at nine today.  

But I can make fun you you for a little while longer. 

The problem with your "logic" here is that you use the term "mass shooting" as a standard, when that could mean as few as two people being killed.  

When we are talking about REAL mass murders like Columbine or Aurora or Sandy Hook, (See, just saying the NAMES tells folks what I'm talking about with no further explanation) then the UK has had very, very few of those.  

Only three "Mass shootings" in the double digits in the last 16 years.  

We've had that many in the last year or so.  

The fact is, the UK only has about 600 murders a year, and they only lock up about 78,000 people.  


We have 16,000 murders a year and have to lock up 2 million people. 

Real, raw numbers.   And we're doing it wrong.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 21, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Before gun ban , 1 mass shooting in the uk( according to UK interpretation ) every 8.8 years for an 88 year period .
After the gun ban 14 mass shootings in 16 years.( mass shooting using the same criteria).
10 times more mass shootings since the gun ban was enacted.

Keep arguing apples and bananas but those numbers are there for all to see .
You refuse to touch them because they are in convienient to your fanatical dogma.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 21, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> [
> 
> Before gun ban , 1 mass shooting in the uk( according to UK interpretation ) every 8.8 years for an 88 year period .
> After the gun ban 14 mass shootings in 16 years.( mass shooting using the same criteria).
> ...



No, I just go by PROBABILITIES. 

The probabilities are that I am much more likely to die from gun violence in the US than the UK.  

This is ESTABLISHED by the fact that we have 25 times the number of murders that they have.  

to try to come up with an artificial standard of "mass shooting" to try to make your point is kind of silly, and you look desperate doing it.


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 21, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



thanks Paul 

that is a startling set of statistics on the UK gun ban


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## Brain357 (Sep 21, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



After gun ban Australia has no mass shootings.    And they even have more of their population in urban areas.


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## Brain357 (Sep 21, 2013)

skookerasbil said:


> We don't have a gun problem......we have a nut problem.
> 
> And anyway......philosophy about gun bans/laws = gay.
> 
> ...



More guns = less crimes?  Well lets look at that:
Guns per 100 residents
US: 94.3
Denmark: 12
Crime Index(higher means more crime)
US: 53.44
Denmark: 30.74
Safety Index(higher means more safe)
US: 46.09
Denmark: 69.26

Well I guess your wrong.  That was easy.

It seems less guns with less income inequality might be the winning combination.  Lots of guns with lots of inequality seems to be a disaster.  Now smart people would learn from this.

Number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Crime Index by Country 2013


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 21, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



He was never convicted of a crime.

Let me repeat that, he was never convicted of a crime.

I really can't say it enough, he was never convicted of a crime.

You can whine about background checks all day long, but he passed a federal background check, and a more stringent background check in Virginia, because he was never convicted of a crime.

By the way, he did not get a medical discharge from the Navy, he got an honorable discharge, which, once again, means he was never convicted of a crime.

The problem I see here is that he was never convicted of a crime, not that the background checks didn't work. They actually worked perfectly because he was *never convicted of a crime*.

Yet, for some reason, you blame the gun nuts even though he illegally modified the shotgun he bought the day before because he was never convicted of a crime.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 21, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



He said most of them occurred after, so you don't have a point other than that they didn't happen here, which means they don't count in your mind.


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## Brain357 (Sep 21, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



This is why we need to add more to backgrounds checks.  We should make it possible for a psychologist to put somebody who seems crazy and potentially dangerous on a no gun buy list.  At least for some time period until the person can be further examined and these details brought to a judge.  Of course since all sales don't need a background check we also have to fix that.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 21, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Lying again?

There have been less than 100 mass shootings in the US in the last 30 years, which is less than 4 a year.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 21, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Which explains why Australia went apeshit when it happened. Funny thing, that has never happened in the US despite the fact that we have crazy people and guns.

It also proves that you really don't have an argument because you are lying.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 21, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



That depends on your zip code, but don't let facts upset your rant.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 21, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
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> > [
> ...


So when you get your  gun ban you will offer a 100% assurance that murder will no longer exist?
No more mass shootings.
No more murders?
I get that iron clad?
Even though mass shootings increased ten times after after a gun ban in the UK?


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 21, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



I wish people would stop pretending that Australia proves something. Even before the "gun ban" Australia had gun laws on the books that were actually stricter than the laws in the UK after the UK banned guns. It also ignore the fact that mass murders in Australia have declined only slightly, but you can still pretend yo won because the people were killed with something other than a gun.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 21, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Define a condition that would put a person on a no buy list?
Anyone trying to buy a gun will be declared a gun nut, that is your standard, correct?

It's your little lie to grab guns.
Declare the act if buying a gun to be an act that indicates risk.

Will you assure 100% that all murder will end when guns are banned.
JoeB said "it's simple, no guns=no murders"!
If you get your ban, will you take personal responsibility for every murder committed after your ban?

Another good way to stop gun crime, you could plan a mass murder of the children of gun owners.......

Oh, silly me , your already planning that!!


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## Kondor3 (Sep 21, 2013)

1. Another shooting.

2. Gun-grabbers make a stink.

3. Gun-owners shove the Constitution in their face and laugh at them.

4. No middle ground (semi-autos and assault rifles still OK, but much tighter controls on licensing).

5. Some time passes with nothing getting done.

6. Rinse and repeat.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 21, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



We don't let doctors put people on lists that restrict their freedom because we use something called due process. I would explain it to you, but you would need a working brain to comprehend it.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 21, 2013)

Kondor3 said:


> 1. Another shooting.
> 
> 2. Gun-grabbers make a stink.
> 
> ...



I am willing to make a reasonable compromise, like tighter checks for mental health, but the other side wants to take away everyone's guns, not just the wacko nutjobs.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 21, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



 You will likely be more at risk after your gun ban.

Look at the UK.
10 mass shootings in 88 years, prior to gun ban.
14 mass shootings in the 16 years after the gun ban.
No artificial standard.
Just facts.
The gun ban increased gun crime.


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## Brain357 (Sep 21, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



Your not a citizen so it doesn't matter.


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## Brain357 (Sep 21, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



I think I was pretty clear that it would be people psychologists deemed dangerous.  Are you saying all gun owners are crazy?  Now that would make sense.


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## Brain357 (Sep 21, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



Yes and it might actually work right?  Can't have that.  Course the right keeps saying throw more people in jail.  I think that restricts freedom quite a bit more.


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## Brain357 (Sep 21, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > 1. Another shooting.
> ...



In your previous post you said no tighter checks for mental health. You seem very confused.  Lets face it, the right is not opposed to doing something.  They are just opposed to anything that would actually work.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 21, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



I live here and pay taxes here, my wife is a citizen , two of my children, that you want to kill, are.
Few short months, I will be a citizen.
3 months.

Now will your ban assure an end to gun crime?


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 21, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Liberals have threatened to kill the children of gun owners.
All liberals should be jailed, just in case.


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## Brain357 (Sep 21, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



Keep talking crazy.  Really makes the pro gun people look good.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 21, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



It does work, except when the government invades peoples homes simply because someone else who doesn't even live in the same house visited a psychiatrist.

I dare you to tell me that doesn't happen.

Alternatively, you can prove me wrong about how stupid you are.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 21, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



The threat was made.
Yet the liberal who made the threat was not arrested?

If some gun owner had said the exact same about liberals kids there would be a life sentence being considered.
The double standard of you racist fanatics.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 21, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...



I did not.


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## Brain357 (Sep 21, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



By definition it wasn't a threat.  Get yourself a dictionary.


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## Brain357 (Sep 21, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



I've no idea what your even talking about.  My home has never been invaded.  Post a link.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 21, 2013)

The best and most practical method of gun control us tge excellent systems we have in place already.
We have extensive background checks on application for the license.
A 5 day waiting period, with further background checks.
Limits on the weapons that may be purchased by different groups.
Different types of licenses.
It's a long and arduous process to purchase a rifle or a shotgun, longer again to buy a handgun.
That's before we even get into the costs involved, safety courses, fees, more fees and then the purchase price of the weapon!!
The costs associated with buying a shotgun are more than the price of the shotgun.
Then the time limits on licenses.
It is actually easier to buy a shotgun in the UK!!


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 21, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



By a strictly legal definition it could be.
If I said exactly the same thing mentioning the children of liberals, I would indeed be looking at life, for threatening a mass killing or act of terror.
You know it.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 21, 2013)

If illegals demanded gun rights I bet the fanatics would be on board!!


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## Brain357 (Sep 21, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> The best and most practical method of gun control us tge excellent systems we have in place already.
> We have extensive background checks on application for the license.
> A 5 day waiting period, with further background checks.
> Limits on the weapons that may be purchased by different groups.
> ...



And yet I can walk down the street to my neighbors house and quickly and easily buy a gun from him.  It's completely legal and no background check.  Very difficult.  Plus we have no registration so it's very easy for guns to find their way into the hands of criminals.


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## Brain357 (Sep 21, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



I'm pretty sure by any definition it is not.


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## TemplarKormac (Sep 21, 2013)




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## theliq (Sep 21, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > 1. Another shooting.
> ...



Soooooooooo You think you are normal....self delusion is such a wonderful mindset,for a Windbag like you......aka the fool aka Mentally Gun MAD.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 21, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > The best and most practical method of gun control us tge excellent systems we have in place already.
> ...



How will registration stop citizen A buying a gun from citizen B?

In the UK ownership of any semi automatic weapon or automatic weapon is a major crime carrying a mandatory 5 year sentence, even for possession ( finding it and taking it to the police), yet the AK 47 has been used in the murder of police officers and other crimes.
Strange, huh?
Outright ban, yet criminals still have them?
Effective gun bans..............


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## theliq (Sep 21, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



You are a CRAZY BASTARD...less than 4 a year!!!!!!!so that's OK THEN!!!!!!!!Windbag ya NUTS


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## theliq (Sep 21, 2013)

skookerasbil said:


> We don't have a gun problem......we have a nut problem.
> 
> And anyway......philosophy about gun bans/laws = gay.
> 
> ...



Another CROCK OF SHIT......I wonder if the NRA and the GUN LOBBY PAID FOR THE STUDYOF COURSE THEY DID.....


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 21, 2013)

theliq said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



I am exaggerating by a lot, but don't let that get in the way of your outrage. By the way, why didn't you get upset about JoeB's claimed that there were 14 a year? Is it because you are a hack?


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## theliq (Sep 21, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



Maybe Face Branding for those carrying or owning a GUN,and CHOPPING  MURDERERS HEADS OFF(In public) OF COURSE.....Barbaric but Effective in introducing Gun Bans but no more Barbaric than Carrying a Lethal Weapon that will kill


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## theliq (Sep 21, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



Funny thing  about people like you,IS the smoke screen of normality you put up,when infact you are completely MAD,as I said previously CRAZY BASTARD


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## squeeze berry (Sep 21, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



keep in mind QW that you are dealing with sniveling, bed wetting pussies


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 21, 2013)

theliq said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...



Ranting anti American hate , we get it.
You don't live in America, you have no right to force your hatful opinions on the great people of this great nation.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 21, 2013)

theliq said:


> skookerasbil said:
> 
> 
> > We don't have a gun problem......we have a nut problem.
> ...


Harvard university, the bastion of liberal fanaticism that Barack Obama claims to have attended( though no transcripts in that name exist), is on the payroll of the NRA.
Don't tell me, Henry Gates jr is to give opening address at the next NRA function.............
Completely insane!!


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 21, 2013)

theliq said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



Really? I don't recall ever claiming I was normal, did I fuck up and lie about it?


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 21, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



I was never shot to death in a school shooting as a kid.
Using your logic, no one else did.

Why are you ranting about these phoney mass shootings?


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## Brain357 (Sep 21, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



Because that gun is registered to you.  In order to sell it you'd have to go to a gun store and have them do a background check and change registration.  If somebody has your gone without going through this process you're in a lot of trouble.


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## Brain357 (Sep 21, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



And your not a citizen.


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## Brain357 (Sep 21, 2013)

squeeze berry said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



You mean the pro gun people who are scared to go anywhere without a gun?


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 21, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


Oh right, someone steals a gun , so you jail the victim of the theft.
Great idea!!
When will you start locking up rape victims?


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 21, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



All gun owners ?

Your believing the hype again!!

It's called fanaticism!


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 21, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



Legal tax paying resident.

December 16th.
I will be.


You want no rights for legal immigrants.

But everything for illegals?

Guns for criminals!!

Wow!!

Twisted liberal thinking.


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## Brain357 (Sep 21, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



If the gun is stolen you report it to the police and then your clear.  Of course if you seem to have too many guns stolen then there is a problem.  Now people can't just sell guns to criminals.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 21, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


They can't do that currently.
What if your gun is stolen, used for a crime , then returned before you realise it was stolen?
Your gun register would have allowed Neil Entwistle to walk and placed an innocent man in prison.

Oh, I forgot!!
Gun owners are never innocent!!!
We should murder their kids to save the lives of human kids!!


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## Spoonman (Sep 21, 2013)

theliq said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


wow. the left wing lunatic have really sunken off the edge haven't they?  When did the left become so anti rights? Interesting to note that reading your posts, were a back ground check to be performed on you for anything, you would be classified as insane.  displaying thoughts of aggression, anger and traits of psychosis. you clearly should not own a gun.  it's people who display these wackjob outburst and clear hatred that are the perpetrators of all the aggression in the world.


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## Spoonman (Sep 21, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



and you have never been the victim of gun violence.  so perhaps you should worry as little about guns as you do the government invading your home


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## Missourian (Sep 21, 2013)

Here is the mistake I think gun controllers make.

They think all gun owners are guys like me.

I'm 41,  six feet tall,  235...I drive a Ford pick-up,  where a wide brimmed hat and a Carhartt vest...typical redneck,  the stereotypical gun owner.

But my wife is 5'1",  a hundred and something pounds,  she drives a sporty Ford Probe and wears pretty much exactly what your wife wears,  and she has a conceal carry permit and a compact Ruger 9mm.

My Dad is 78,  he is 6 feet and around 160,  he is retired in Florida and drives a Cadillac,  he occasionally wears bermuda shorts with black socks and white tennis shoes...he has a conceal carry permit,  and carries a Llama .380 sub-compact to defend himself and my 77 year old mother.

These are the folks you ignore when you make your anti-gun arguments.


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 21, 2013)

Missourian said:


> Here is the mistake I think gun controllers make.
> 
> They think all gun owners are guys like me.
> 
> ...



between my wife and myself the adult kids 

my brothers and sister and their adult kids 

which come from all walks of life and all sorts of sizes

in several states 

there are at least 20 permit holders


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## Spoonman (Sep 21, 2013)

Missourian said:


> Here is the mistake I think gun controllers make.
> 
> They think all gun owners are guys like me.
> 
> ...



that's very true.   they think their battle is against a handful of uneducated, redneck gun nuts and a few neo-Nazis.  people no one listens to and no one really cars about.  but gun owners cover every type of person out there. and there are a massive amount of us and growing.  their 2nd mistake is they think they are just fighting the cons.  wrong.  many liberals are die hard gun owners and what that means is they are losing the support  of many of their own team.  I know a lot of liberal gun owners who will not vote democrat because of their stance on guns.   the 3rd  critical mistake they make, is this really isn't a gun issue.  its a rights issue. and you don't have to own a gun to want to protect your rights and freedoms. because anyone who has a brain and the ability to use it realizes that if they can erode one right, they can erode any.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 21, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



It is a crime to sell a gun to a criminal even if you are a private citizen, but you want to make people who don't break the law into criminals if they are the victim of a crime.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2013)

jon_berzerk said:


> []
> 
> thanks Paul
> 
> that is a startling set of statistics on the UK gun ban



I'm reminded of something a Great British person once said. 

"Mendacity comes in three forms. Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics". 

All Double Wide did was prove that out.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
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If they are a victim of a crime that could potentially hurt other people, then they are 'accessories after the fact"


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## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> The best and most practical method of gun control us tge excellent systems we have in place already.
> We have extensive background checks on application for the license.
> A 5 day waiting period, with further background checks.
> Limits on the weapons that may be purchased by different groups.
> ...



Except that's not what happened here. 

What happened here was that Aaron Alexis walked into a VA gun store, and they let him walk out with a gun with no background check. 

A background check would have found out he was involved in at least two previous incidents involving guns.  Guns that must have been taken away from him or he would have still had them.  

A background check would have found that he had reported "hearing voices".  

I'm reasonably sure he didn't take any safety courses, either.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
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The article I pointed out cited a total of 20 for JUST 2012.   

Of course, it depends where you count "Mass Shootings".  Double Wide wanted to count them as any number more than 1.  

If that is the case, then, yeah, we have a lot more. 

If you want to use a higher body count, like double digits, then, yeah, we STILL have more.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> [
> 
> He was never convicted of a crime.
> 
> ...



Why should that be a standard? 

Frankly, the incidents were serious enough to get his guns confiscated in the previous incidents. 

the problem with you guys is that you claim to say, "Well, we did a background check, good enough", when the media was able to find out IN ONE DAY, that this guy never, ever should have been sold a gun.  

Because here's the dirty little secret.  The gun industry doesn't WANT effective background checks.  They want bad guys to have guns. Because if bad guys have guns, everyone else will piss themselves and want them, too.  It's like selling weapons to both sides in a war. 

Again, simple enough solution.  Hold gun manufacturers and gun sellers liable for gun violence.  Betcha they'll find a way to do serious background check then.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> [
> So when you get your  gun ban you will offer a 100% assurance that murder will no longer exist?
> No more mass shootings.
> No more murders?
> ...



Again, ignoring your horseshit numbers about the UK you keep pulling out of your ass. 

80% of gun murders are people shooting people they know- Family, Co-Workers, Friends, neighbors.  

So, yeah, you get a gun ban, you've already reduced the murder rate by 80%.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > The best and most practical method of gun control us tge excellent systems we have in place already.
> ...



He passed the background check needed for a shotgun purchase.
Failed the requirements for other weapons.

There was a background check.

A background check was completed.

No background check for buying a shotgun in the UK.
The UK !!
Your liberal utopia.

Takes 5 mins to fill in the forms, 5 mins for an inspector to authorize it( photographs of gun locker and seperated ammunition storage required).
Then a walk to the gun shop , choose your gun, buy it, have it sized and adjusted, pick it up.
You could get your cirtificate on Saturday morning and be in possession of the shotgun at lunchtime.

Did I mention, he passed a background check?


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## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



So a doctor should just let the guy who is crazy walk out of his office and buy a gun. 

Yeah, that makes sense, because, you know, "Freedom".


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...


The MURDER UK organization is highly respected for compiling the names of murderers in the UK, and the details of the murders they committed.
After the UK gun ban all murders increased, all crime increased, all violent crime increased, all gun crime increased , all sex crimes increased, mass shootings are 10 times more frequent than before, cops shot on duty increased too.
Mass shootings increased 1000%.
Show the 80% reduction?

You pulled that out of your ass, along with all your other lies.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> [
> 
> He passed the background check needed for a shotgun purchase.
> Failed the requirements for other weapons.
> ...



I just want to point out this stupidity. 

If he FAILED the requirements for OTHER WEAPONS, he shouldn't have EVER been allowed to get ANY WEAPON.  

Jesus H. FUcking Christ, talking to you gun nuts is like talking to people who live in an alternative reality. 








I mean, I really, really don't know what to say here.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Ok, we should lock people for what they might do.
The DC shooter, liberal.
Boston bombers, liberal.
Recent threats by liberal professor to murder the kids of gun owners.

You, as a liberal are an extreme risk to the well being of children.

You should be locked up in a padded cell where you can no longer do harm to children.

That work for ya?


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> [
> 
> Ok, we should lock people for what they might do.
> The DC shooter, liberal.
> ...



Okay, not seeing how the DC Shooter was a liberal, but the boston bombers were very conservative Muslims.   In fact, take out the Muslim part, they were probably in agreement with you wingnuts in a lot of ways.  They loved guns and hated women controlling their own lady-parts.  

So one more time. Do you think crazy people should be allowed to buy guns or not?  

I think it's a pretty awful idea....


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 22, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Legally they already can not. In this particular case Rhode Island Seattle and Dallas all failed to take the appropriate steps. Further the navy was notified and failed to do anything. The laws are already on the books enforce the laws we have.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2013)

RetiredGySgt said:


> [
> 
> Legally they already can not. In this particular case Rhode Island Seattle and Dallas all failed to take the appropriate steps. Further the navy was notified and failed to do anything. The laws are already on the books enforce the laws we have.



Exactly. The laws aren't being enforced. 

Because the NRA doesn't want them enforced. Or strengthened. 

Thank you for proving my point.  

Hey, you know what, when you come home and find someone broke into your house and took your wide-screen and your computer, you don't say, "Well, I had a lock!" 

Nope.  You get a tougher door.  You maybe get better locks on the other doors they didn't enter in through.  If you are feeling really inventive, you might even put bars on the windows even though they didn't even get in that way.  

That's what you'd do if you had a lick of sense. 

Clearly, the gun laws in place were INADEQUATE to keep Aaron Alexis from getting a gun.  

Clearly, Aaron Alexis never should have been able to BUY a gun.  

I mean, this is not fucking complicated, really.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



The DC shooter, according to his family was an Obama supporter.
Boston bombers, 4 of the 5 terrorists were liberals.
Educated in hatred of America in public schools.
At least two at the Cambridge Rindge (syringe) and Latin academy in the people's republic of Cambridge.
The Boston bombers loved guns ?
Show evidence?

They hated America because their unionized liberal teachers taught them to.

Should mentally ill people be allowed to purchase firearms?

Define mentally ill?
Was Adam lanzas mother mentally Ill?

Mentall illness covers a broad range of conditions.
Depression.
Drink problems.
Pain killer addiction.
Stress .

Give clear definition, then the subject can be looked at.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



This guy should have been tried and convicted for illegal discharge of a firearm.
That is clear.
Can you show evidence that the NRA , a small organization of 4 million members , 3 quarters of whom are not involved beyond paying their dues once a year can influence every police investigation in the country!!

The charges were most likely not pursued by the cops out of fear of the race baiters getting involved.
The race card is a powerfull tool. Particularly powerful at destroying a police officers career in a liberal state or city.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

If your house gets robbed because you didn't use the locks that were in place then you start using them.
That would be the more accurate analogy.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> [
> 
> The DC shooter, according to his family was an Obama supporter.
> Boston bombers, 4 of the 5 terrorists were liberals.
> ...



Guy, are you some kind of fucking retard or what?  

The Boston Bombers- well, there were ONLY TWO OF THEM, and they both came from Chechyna.   

And, oh, yeah, they had guns on them when they had a shootout with police.   

Seriously, man, get some help.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> [
> 
> This guy should have been tried and convicted for illegal discharge of a firearm.
> That is clear.
> ...



Because of NRA lobbying, too many police departments are reluctant to confiscate guns. 

For instance, my next door neighbor shot out his patio-window with a gun, then lied to the police and said someone had shot in at him until he fessed up and admitted he shot out the window himself. 

The cops didn't take his gun. 

A couple weeks later he shot himself.  

This guy was white. 

So, no, the real problem is the NRA insisting gun ownership is a "right" instead of a "privilage".


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## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> [
> 
> Define mentally ill?
> Was Adam lanzas mother mentally Ill?
> ...



Yeah, actually, I think Nancy Lanza was mentally ill. someone who thinks she needs 12 guns, some of them military grade, while living in a nice, cushy CT Suburb, is probably suffering from some serious problems.  

And, yeah, I think that if you suffer from minor issues like depression or pain killer addiction, you shouldn't have a gun.  

19,000 sucidies with guns.  Probably would be nice to cut down on those.


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## Brain357 (Sep 22, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



A crime to knowingly sell a gun to a felon yes.  Without a background check I guess you take the guys word he isn't a felon?


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## Brain357 (Sep 22, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



I think this guy was mentally ill.  Blacked out and shot the tires off a car?  Hearing voices?  Yeah he shouldn't have been able to buy a gun.

The Theater shooter should not have been allowed to own or buy guns.  
Documents: Psychiatrist Warned Alleged Colorado Theater Shooter Was Threat : The Two-Way : NPR


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



 2?
Yet there are 3 accomplices on trial right now .
A Dominican, a Chechen and a kazak, as well as Dzhokar. 

We know Dzhokar was educated at Cambridge syringe and Latin academy, as was his long term liberal school mate, from the Dominican republic.
They had one gun.
One illegal gun.

That's gun love in your books ?

Ah well .
Nice to have proven your lies again !!
Off to work in your third minimum wage job, loser?
Pay your debts , waster, pay your debts.
I will be going to lunch at number 9!!


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

I





Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



The background checks worked well for Alexis .......
The government couldn't organize a piss up in a brewery.
I would rather take charge of my own safety.


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 22, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



How, EXACTLY, does the NRA keep local County, state and federal agencies from doing thier jobs? Be specific.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



But she passed all the background checks required by the state of CT.
All of which far exceed any of the proposed laws from the liberals right now.

Who said she owned the guns for protection?
Did her application for licensing say that?

NB none of her weapons were military grade.
Any veteran who read the story in its entirety would know that.
But you are no veteran and you didn't look at the story , you heard what your liberal bosses told you to hear .
Good little low info voter that you are .
Are all depressives suicidal?
If someone had an accident at work, was given morphine , became dependant then weaned off the dependency , you would use that as a reason to deny the basic civil and human right to bear arms?
Even if it was 20 years since?

And you wonder why people don't like your ideas !!


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

RetiredGySgt said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



Because they are terrorists!!
We should murder their kids!!


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## Brain357 (Sep 22, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> I
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Obviously we need to put something in regarding mental health.  If a psychologist is worried someone is dangerous they should be able to put that person on a no gun buy list.

Well it's currently not that hard to get around background checks.  Even if they had stopped him he could have bought a gun from a neighbor with no background check.


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## Brain357 (Sep 22, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Your realize you sound WAY more crazy than the original guy right?


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## Missourian (Sep 22, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > The best and most practical method of gun control us tge excellent systems we have in place already.
> ...




Which are you Joe,  a liar or a damned liar?*Aaron Alexis  passed Federal Bureau Investigation and Virginia state background  checks to purchase a shotgun from Sharpshooters Small Arms Range in  Lorton, Va., over the weekend.  *


Alexis did not attempt to purchase a rifle or handgun from the store, The Washington Times has learned exclusively.

*The  retail store put the former Navy reservists name through both systems  checks before selling him a shotgun and 00 buckshot shotgun shells, a  source familiar with the investigation said.*
Read more: MILLER: Aaron Alexis passed two background checks, bought shotgun from Sharpshooters in Lorton, Va. - Washington Times 
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

​ Also,  he was a Navy Veteran...so I'm pretty sure he had a firearms safety course.​


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > I
> ...



Punish people because they are ill?
Apply punishment without due process?
Apply punishment for something they might do?

Dosen't sound very American to me!!


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



You insisted it was ok to say such things!!
Odd!


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## Nosmo King (Sep 22, 2013)

RetiredGySgt said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


By writing the 'gun control' legislation that PROHIBITED funding for extensive national data bases so adequate back ground checks could be performed.  By specifically prohibiting  funding to the CDC for comprehensive studies concerning gun violence.  The NRA writes the legislation the most ardent gun loving legislators introduce.


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## Nosmo King (Sep 22, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...


In your opinion, is gun violence a public safety issue?  If not, why not?


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## Brain357 (Sep 22, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



Not letting them buy a gun to kill innocent people is ok with me.  I guess the right prefers they can buy a gun and kill innocent people.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

Nosmo King said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


The NRA tell cops not to arrest black criminals for illegal discharge of a firearm?
I'm calling it!!
You are a vile liar!!


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## Nosmo King (Sep 22, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


That's on hell of a stretch!  Back it up!  I'm not a liar as much as you are patently ignorant.  Prove your point, or accept the fact that you have no business writing about something you have no knowledge of.

What I said was the NRA crafted legislation that bans money for studies about gun violence.  Well, more to the point, the studies could be conducted, but there was no money for publishing them.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



All guns purchased by a depressed person are used to kill innocents?

Care to show the evidence to support that bullshit sack of shit lie?


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

Nosmo King said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



So the NRA does not order cops to allow crime to be committed?
That's liberal fanatics afraid of being called racist.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

Nosmo King said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...


Liar.


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## Nosmo King (Sep 22, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...


Poorly argued as usual.  Are you a Conservative by choice, or did they recruit you for your wisdom and rhetorical acumen?


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

Nosmo King said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Law abiding citizens owning guns is not a public safety issue.
Lock up a few of your beloved criminals to make things safer.
Even if they are black gang banger criminals with a very convienient race card!!
Higher welfare areas are also high gun crime areas.
Stop welfare, tire the savages out at work , they won't have the energy to murder each other!


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

```

```



Nosmo King said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



I have no political affiliation.

I'm not an NRA member.

You are still a traitor, a terrorist and a liberal intent on killing my kids because I disagree with your insanity.


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## Nosmo King (Sep 22, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...


I'll ask it yet again: Is gun VIOLENCE a public safety issue?  If not, why not?  

Now, before you type, think.  I'll wait.


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## Nosmo King (Sep 22, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> ```
> 
> ```
> 
> ...


Ah!  Yes!  you are wise!  You have divined an answer that is logically unassailable.  Crafted with deep thought, facts and impeccable literary mastery.  I AM indeed a traitor!  I am a terrorist!  I am indeed insane!  And, most importantly, my intent is to kill your children!

And you alone were able to glean that truth out of what I posted!  Remarkable!  Why, with your skills, I'd be a fool to continue to argue against you!  You made more sense in that last sentence than Pope, Locke, Paine, Aristotle and De Tocqueville did in volumes of thoughtful discourse!

Well done!  Well reasoned!  Well argued!  Fox News should be beating down your door with million dollar offers to be one of their premiere commentators.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

Nosmo King said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > ```
> ...



Fox?

You are a liberal right?
Given exactly what you just posted.
Back at cha.
Fox fox , NRA , fox fox blame Bush ok!!
That cover it for you ?


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## Brain357 (Sep 22, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



You are such a great example of a gun nut.  I love it.  I'm surprised some of the other pro gun people don't try to shut you up.  haha

I clearly said that a psychologist would have to deem them dangerous.  Does a psychologist deem every depressed person dangerous?  I doubt it.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

Nosmo King said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



Gun violence is not always a public safety issue .
Sometimes violence, with or without a gun is essential.
When a passer by shoots a crazed knifeman who is busy hacking a DR to death, that is very technically gun violence.

The second amendment and gun crime are two seperate issues.
Your question is an act of entrapment.
If I said it was a public safety issue you would then ask why I was opposed to ending it.
If I said no , you would declare that I was insane.
Trick questions are more dishonesty.
Gun ownership and gun violence are not linked.
Seperate the two, then ask a sensible question.
Lawfull gun violence is used thousands of times a day to protect life.
Why do you murderous fanatics always ignore that?

Oh I forgot, then you couldn't terrorize lawful gun owners by threatening to murder their children.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Psychologists are infallible?
Psychology and psychiatry are more art than science.
A human opinion?
No due process?

Not very American.

But then, you are a traitor!!


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## Brain357 (Sep 22, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



I said a temporary stop to buying guns while they get put in front of a judge.  Gosh you are slow.  
So when we have a clear case like this:

Documents: Psychiatrist Warned Alleged Colorado Theater Shooter Was Threat : The Two-Way : NPR

We can actually stop the shooting.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 22, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



No


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



You can disarm the innocents on the basis of an opinion!!
The DC shooter should have been charged with his crimes.
Then he would have failed the background check.

The liberals pandering to blacks was the cause of this shooting.
If a black commits a gun crime, prosecute.
Stop holding off out of fear of being called racist.

That is the problem.
You caused it.
Stop trying to blame Bush or the NRA for all your fuck ups.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 22, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > The best and most practical method of gun control us tge excellent systems we have in place already.
> ...



Even the scum sucking pigs admit he passed a background check.

How Aaron Alexis Passed a Background Check and Bought a Gun | Josh Horwitz

You make you a scum sucking pig anti gun nut pigs look reasonable, and shows why no one with a brain believes anything you say.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 22, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



You just claimed that Alexis was sold a gun without a background check, and now you claim there were 20 mass shootings last year. 

You also claim I am crazy.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 22, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



What should be the standard? No one gets to buy a gun?


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
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> > Brain357 said:
> ...



I'm a gun nut?
Explain.
I've already mentioned several times that I don't give a shit about guns.
I don't like shooting them.
A gun nut is a person who Doesn't like guns and dislikes firing them.
Ok , now we see your standard.
A racist would then be a person who is in no way racist then?


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 22, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
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The only thing he could not purchase was a pistol, and that was not because he failed a background check, it was because Virginia law does not allow a non resident to purchase a pistol.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 22, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



So a doctor, without ever seeing a person, could just take away their rights because you want tyranny.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
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That's their hope!!
Exept criminals, they can have guns , and all their victims will be unarmed!!
Happy criminals=happy liberals!!
The criminals could kill out children on the behalf of the libs!!
Now I see it!!


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 22, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
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> > [
> ...



One more time, he didn't fail anything. Virginia law prohibits non residents from buying a pistol, probably because DC whinged to them about people buying a pistol there and then using it to defend themselves from the gangs that rule the city. He did not fail a background check.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Pauli007001 said:
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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 22, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
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> > [
> ...



Wow, every time the NRA says we don't need more laws, we need to enforce the laws we already have, they actually mean don't enforce the laws.


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## Brain357 (Sep 22, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



I'm glad you think crazy dangerous people should be armed.  I wish you'd become the spokesman for the NRA.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 22, 2013)

Nosmo King said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Because it is a symptom, not the disease. 

We need to deal with the factors that lead to dehumanization of urban youth in general. If we figure out how to fix that they won't go looking for answers on their own, won't end up in gangs, and the gun violence symptom will disappear.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Never said that did I, lying baby murdering terrorist traitor.
You want blacks to get away with it.
Don't want to be called racist now do you!!

Affirmitive action strikes again!!
Take responsibility for your laws.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 22, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Deem them dangerous on what grounds? If we give a psychiatrist the legal obligation to deem people dangerous, and they don't, who pays? What if someone needs help, but is also in real danger? 

Since you haven't even thought about these questions, why do you throw out stupid ideas?


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 22, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Yet not a single psychiatrist thought Alexis was a danger even though he was getting treatment for depression.

Which actually proves we can't stop anything.


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## Brain357 (Sep 22, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
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Whether they did or not they couldn't have done anything.


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## Brain357 (Sep 22, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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> > Pauli007001 said:
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How about threatening the psychologist?  That seems like a pretty good ground.


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## Brain357 (Sep 22, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Nosmo King said:
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> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



Income inequality is the clear cause of high crime, we should fix that right?


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 22, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
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> 
> > Brain357 said:
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He was getting treatment from the VA for depression, they had some  pretty powerful options if they thought he was a danger. They might not  have worked, but they were there.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 22, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
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How about learning to think?


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 22, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...



Income equality does not cause crime. If it did, poor rural areas would be hotbeds of crime and rich cities would be peaceful.


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## Brain357 (Sep 22, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



Oh right, you have no interest in saving lives, just selling guns.  I forgot.


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## Brain357 (Sep 22, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
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> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



I guess if you ignore all the studies and statistics.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> [
> 
> 2?
> Yet there are 3 accomplices on trial right now .
> A Dominican, a Chechen and a kazak, as well as Dzhokar.



Those guys weren't terrorists, and if we treat them as terrorists, shame on us.  THey were three college kids who showed very bad judgment when their friend was accused of something.  






Pauli007001 said:


> [
> We know Dzhokar was educated at Cambridge syringe and Latin academy, as was his long term liberal school mate, from the Dominican republic.
> They had one gun.
> One illegal gun.
> ...



Yeah, if you have one gun and shoot cops with it, you're a gun nut.  Or as the NRA likes to say, "Living the Dream!"  






> Ah well .
> Nice to have proven your lies again !!
> Off to work in your third minimum wage job, loser?
> Pay your debts , waster, pay your debts.
> I will be going to lunch at number 9!!



First, I never bet you anything. 

Secondly, unless they serve shit sandwiches, I don't care where you eat.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2013)

RetiredGySgt said:


> [
> 
> How, EXACTLY, does the NRA keep local County, state and federal agencies from doing thier jobs? Be specific.



They've got these politicians pissing their pants so bad no one wants to do their job and you know it. 

Specifically.  

Quit living in denial.


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## theliq (Sep 22, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



UTTER NONSENCE


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## theliq (Sep 22, 2013)

jon_berzerk said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Which is RUBBISH by the way.....


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## theliq (Sep 22, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Then freakoutnation rushes to support him:
> ...



Nothing of what you say is real or legitimate,you have received NO threats to your family...I know this because YOU are Mentally Unhinged and a Liar.

The best thing you should do is SHUT YOUR STUPID NRA BULLSHIT MOUTH


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## theliq (Sep 22, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



O dear all this anti-america Spew You Wail when you are cornered and beaten.....and your statement above exposes more about you and the mentality of your fellow(well some)Americans........which is :- YOU THINK EVERYONE HATES YOU,YOU COWER UNDER YOUR FLAG,THIS IS SO AWFUL TO SEE....BECAUSE THE FLAG REPRESENTS REAL AMERICANS....not little creeps like you and you possee.

As a nation you have been at WAR with someone every year since  the end of your own civil WAR,you are introverted,that is why you carry a GUN....for supposed strenght,to bolster your weak mentality.

Open your mind and accept love and understand.....NO ONE(OR COUNTRY) IS AN ISLAND,NO ONE STANDS ALONE........so stop thinking you DO.......GET RID of the GUNS and FREE YOUR NEGATIVE MINDS........IT'S KILLING YOU.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
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Don't be so unreasonable!!
He is a liberal, their dogma forbids thinking!!


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

theliq said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



I'm not American, you fucking retard!!
Get rid of guns? 
I'm sure the criminals will gladly abide by that law, if we promise them a hug !!
Fucking dope!!!


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

theliq said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



I have received many .
All liberals support and encourage the mass murder of the children of non liberals in the USA.
Just recently a fanatic professor has been threatening and inciting mass murder of children whose parents own guns !


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

theliq said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



Apart from the independently sourced evidence.
Rather than government lies or Brady bill statistics!!


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 22, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
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> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



You are complaining about me not being serious after that pathetic attempt at humor?

Wait, it wasn't a joke? That is even worse.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 22, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


Tell you what, if you have a favorite study that shows a causal link between income inequality and crime, start a thread and let some intelligent people pull it apart for you. If you don't want to go that route, just take my word for it, they are all full of shit.


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## Brain357 (Sep 22, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



It happened:
Documents: Psychiatrist Warned Alleged Colorado Theater Shooter Was Threat : The Two-Way : NPR


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## Brain357 (Sep 22, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



I've been involved in many such discussions.  And it's pretty clear we have too much inequality and it's causing a lot of problems.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...


Who said you did bet, fucking liar.


YOU said you worked 3 jobs to pay your debts.
Who runs up debts to that point?

Oh that's it.

Losers, retards, fuckwits and wasters.

LOSER!!!

Anyone involved in a robbery is a robber, even the getaway driver?

Anyone involved in a terrorist attack is a terrorist.

Another lib defending/ idolising terrorists .

All gun owners therefore in your puddled mind are nutters?

Unless they are criminals committing crimes , then they are victims, unless that in convienient, then they become gun nutters again.
Were your idols, the Boston terrorist cell, pressure cooker nutters?

Should we have a pressure cooker registry?


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## TemplarKormac (Sep 22, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



So, how did a discussion about a mass murder turn into a discussion about inequality? And how exactly are the two related in any way? Perhaps that was the case during Jim Crow, but now even close today.


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## Brain357 (Sep 22, 2013)

TemplarKormac said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



Well a discussion on mass murder moved to general homicides.  The right blames the homicide rate on gangs.  We have a gang problem because of our income inequality.  See how it all comes together?


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 22, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
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> > Brain357 said:
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D'oh.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 22, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
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> > Brain357 said:
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From what I have seen, the discussions have all been over your head.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 22, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



We have gang problems because you are an idiot?

Didn't think so.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 22, 2013)

We have a mass shootings problem because of gun free zones.

That is all.


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## theliq (Sep 22, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



Coming from someone who is from the worlds biggest debtor nation


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## TemplarKormac (Sep 22, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> TemplarKormac said:
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> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Uhhh, no. I see that as kids and grownups who don't know any better.  That is perhaps the dumbest thing I've ever heard. "We have a gang problem because of our income inequality"? Snort.

I live under the poverty level. Do you see me in a gang? Do I look like I should be compelled to kill someone because they make more money than me? By what logic?

Wow. Just wow.


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## theliq (Sep 23, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



And below your waist.Duh


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## theliq (Sep 23, 2013)

TemplarKormac said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...



It's often who people run with Templar,and peer pressure.....these "Gangs" are often a place of Refuge and Support for children who have one or sometimes no parental guidance.

But a poor situation creates many problems.....I'm not making excuses for any one as 99.9% of the population live a happy and law abiding life.

Guns just create a feeling of power.....which in the wrong hands is a very dangerous thing indeed, often in the end it's a social problem to start with,but with Guns it merely makes things worse..steve

And it's not just the Deaths but Injuries too


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## TemplarKormac (Sep 23, 2013)

theliq said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Indeed, guns create that feeling of "power" but they don't compel anyone to kill. That person makes that decision themselves. Just as it is a decision to join a gang.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 23, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> [
> Who said you did bet, fucking liar.
> 
> 
> ...



And people who have serious medical issues who get their legs cut out from beneath them by employers, Double-Wide.  

Was that what you were getting at, Double Wide, that I actually can hold down a job, unlike you?  







> Anyone involved in a robbery is a robber, even the getaway driver?
> 
> Anyone involved in a terrorist attack is a terrorist.
> 
> Another lib defending/ idolising terrorists .



I think the term "Terrorist" is subjective.  There's a whole bunch of people that the Cuban government who've committed acts of "terrorism" that we are sheltering, so we really don't have a moral high ground.  We have a terrorist problem because we keep sticking our dicks in the Middle East Hornet's nest and wondering why we get stung. 




> All gun owners therefore in your puddled mind are nutters?
> 
> Unless they are criminals committing crimes , then they are victims, unless that in convienient, then they become gun nutters again.
> Were your idols, the Boston terrorist cell, pressure cooker nutters?
> ...



Sorry, guy, the irrational, "I think Crazy People should own guns because a criminal might break into my house" kind of proves the lot of you are nutters.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 23, 2013)

TemplarKormac said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...



I really love how clueless white people living comfortable lives tell us how we don't have a problem anymore.  That never gets old.


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## Brain357 (Sep 23, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> We have a mass shootings problem because of gun free zones.
> 
> That is all.



But they aren't all in gun free zones.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 23, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > We have a mass shootings problem because of gun free zones.
> ...



Pauli thinks military bases are "gun free zones".


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## Brain357 (Sep 23, 2013)

TemplarKormac said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...



It's really just common sense.  Who is more likely to commit a crime?  A person who has money and things and feels they have a good future?  Or somebody who grows up poor with nothing and feels thats as good as it's going to get?  The person with nothing to lose is much more likely to turn to crime.  Do you have common sense?

Here are the effects of income inequality for you:
This Is How Income Inequality Destroys Societies - Business Insider


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 23, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > We have a mass shootings problem because of gun free zones.
> ...



99% or more are.
The others, like the junk food restaurant, were thought to be gun free zones by at least 2 law abiding gun owners who locked their guns in their cars.

Mass shootings happen where?
There has never  been a mass shooting at a gun club or a shooting range.
Schools, gun free zones.
The aurora theater , gun free zone.
Military bases, gun free zones.
Most national chain junk food stores, gun free zones.

Pretty much everywhere could be considered a gun free zone in the USA.
Most ccl owners do not excercise that right on a daily basis , despite your propaganda.

Gun clubs and shooting ranges are not gun free zones.
Everywhere else pretty much is.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 23, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



The DC shooter was suffering from poverty in his well paid high tech job?
The joker had no future beyond finishing his masters degree ?
Adam Lanza grew up poor in his parents mansion in CT.

Bullshit.

I grew up in a bloody terrace house in Yorkshire and a wattle house in Zambia.
Neither had heat or ac.
One had no hot or cold water, no electricity and needed to be pretty much re built after a rain storm.

Why am I, or any if the people I grew up with, violent criminals, murderers or mass shooters?

Way to blame the victims and incite murder against whites!


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## Brain357 (Sep 23, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...



The right keeps bringing up gangs.  These statistics show a link between homicides and inequality.  Mass shooters are obviously crazy.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 23, 2013)

```

```



JoeB131 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...



REGULATION 90/114 confirms that they are.
Do you continually ignore the facts ?

Oh yeah!!!
Your a liberal fanatic, of course you do , it's kind of a liberal thing!!


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## JoeB131 (Sep 23, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> [
> 
> The DC shooter was suffering from poverty in his well paid high tech job?
> The joker had no future beyond finishing his masters degree ?
> ...



In your case, I would say, why aren't you one of those things, yet! 

because given your crazy talk, you really do sound like a bomb that's looking for a place to go off.  

Just like Alexis and Lanza and Holmes and...


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 23, 2013)

Brain357 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



I never mentioned gangs .
I grew up in terrible poverty and inequality but I'm not in a gang , I'm not a crook, you are wrong.
Criminals are the cause of crime, not clueless white folk living comforable lives.
As your fellow fanatical Obamacult member claimed.
Obamacult inciting hatred and murder against whites is also a cause of crime.

You should blame bush!!


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## skookerasbil (Sep 23, 2013)

Those who prefer the non-PC slant on the realities need to bookmark this site >>>

Stuff Black People Don't Like - SBPDL


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## JoeB131 (Sep 23, 2013)

Spaaaaaambot.....


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 23, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



What crazy talk?
Respecting the law?
That's liberal for crazy?

You dope, you are programmed to call anyone who argues against your totalitarian dogma, insane.

Stating the FACT that military bases are gun free zones is crazy?

REGULATION 90/114, put in place by Clinton.
Look it up you retard, if you are able to read!


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 23, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Spaaaaaambot.....



Can't argue the facts so you resort to hurling abuse.
How very, OBAMACULT of you.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 23, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



You should murder their kids.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 23, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> [
> 
> What crazy talk?
> Respecting the law?
> ...



You mean the only people who carry guns around with them are ones who JOBS require it? 

Wow! Really.  

Just not seeing how other people packing would have made a difference, as Alexis took guns off of two people he shot.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 23, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Spaaaaaambot.....
> ...



Skoobie reposts the same three pictures or youtube vidoes and really thinks he's adding anything to the conversation.  

I think he's reposted this video in this thread three times already.


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## skookerasbil (Sep 23, 2013)

Pauli.........

What makes this forum so much fun is, you have these people in here that get publically humiliated and gave no clue its happening. Happens all the time with social oddballs with a thought processing disorder. That's how they get to this point where they embrace these fringe viewpoints. Its a way they can matter in the real world.....no ability to conform to societal norms. Anyway......I see my role in these forums, particularly on the gun issue, is pointing out to the curious boardmembers that there is a real disconnect on the facts from the gun grabber contingent.


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## skookerasbil (Sep 23, 2013)

Anybody who wants a good look into the mindset of gun grabber fanatics like JoeB need to look at this video to see the pronounced level of nutter >>>>


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNb34vPqrN0#at=257]Debating A Gun Control Fanatic - YouTube[/ame]


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## JoeB131 (Sep 23, 2013)

Yawn, guy, except everyone mostly ignores you. I have you on ignore most of the time, and given the very few people who respond to your posts, I'd guess everyone else does, too. 

Even folks who agree with you.


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## Nosmo King (Sep 23, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > Pauli007001 said:
> ...


And the one glaring factor you overlooked: the supply and easy of obtaining weapons capable of firing multiple rounds at a high rate of speed.  Maybe, just maybe that has something to do with the public safety.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 23, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



A gate guard and a cop?
A cop can walk into a school with his gun.
No one else can.
It's still a gun free zone, idiot.

Cops are hi visability targets.
That's why he identified them and neutralized them first.
Then he knew the livers had provided him with unarmed targets because of regulation 90/114.
However, he chose this location because he knew he had lots of easy targets.
That's why he didn't choose a busy shooting range or gun club.


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 23, 2013)

Nosmo King said:


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what is a high rate of speed these days


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 23, 2013)

Nosmo King said:


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Kenya has extremely strict gun control laws, psychiatric checks, background checks , restrictions on semi automatic weapons, a national firearms and ammunition registry.

Currently they are dealing with a huge mass shooting incident.

Those gun laws really work!!
Extremely strict as in all but game weapons are banned.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 23, 2013)

jon_berzerk said:


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Rapid fire in NATO is considered to be 30 rounds per min.

With an AR15 few could hit a target at that rate.

Deliberate fire is 10 rounds per min, that would create what is called effective fire, close enough to be effective, possibly even hit a target.

With my SMLE I can go at rapid fire quite effectively.
At deliberate fire it's one shot one hit at 300 meters.


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## Nosmo King (Sep 23, 2013)

jon_berzerk said:


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Faster than the muzzle loading muskets the 2nd amendment was written for.


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 23, 2013)

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thanks 

i was wondering what the antis thought a high rate was


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 23, 2013)

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1 round every 20 seconds was the rate a well drilled infantry could manage for volly fire with a musket.
1 round every 30 for less trained troops.

Rifles of that period were I round every 40 seconds.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 23, 2013)

[MENTION][/MENTION]





Nosmo King said:


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I never saw anything in the second specifying that.

Guess your hallucinations go beyond Audio to visual!!
That's some serious insanity you got going on there.


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## martybegan (Sep 23, 2013)

Nosmo King said:


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which where the top of technology at the time, same as semi-autos are at the current time. 

The equivalent of what you are looking for is if the 2nd amendment was limited to pikes back in the 1700's.


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## squeeze berry (Sep 23, 2013)

Nosmo King said:


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link for it being limited to muzzle loading muskets


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## Lonestar_logic (Sep 23, 2013)

Nosmo King said:


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Using that logic the 1st amendment doesn't include the internet, phones, emails or any telecommunications.

You're more proof that liberals are stupid.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 23, 2013)

Lonestar_logic said:


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Given that newspaper technology no longer requires a "press"
Nothing is covered.
Even the language we use has changed so no free speech either!!!!
Evidencing the true intent of these treasonous fanatics.


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## Nosmo King (Sep 23, 2013)

And we all knew that the gun lovers would spend time picking fly shit out of ground pepper and concentrate on the rate of fire, not the fact that gang bangers are not skilled marksmen and actually require a fast rate of fire to hit what they intend to and have time for escape.

Gun violence a public safety issue?  Absolutely.  Especially when the guns used in violent crime are designed for warfare, not sport.  But what do the gun lovers care?  They want the big sexy guns (penis extensions) so they can fantasize about being an action movie star.  Never a concern for the violence those guns cause, just the little boy thrill of shooting like Rambo or Dirty Harry.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 23, 2013)

Nosmo King said:


> And we all knew that the gun lovers would spend time picking fly shit out of ground pepper and concentrate on the rate of fire, not the fact that gang bangers are not skilled marksmen and actually require a fast rate of fire to hit what they intend to and have time for escape.
> 
> Gun violence a public safety issue?  Absolutely.  Especially when the guns used in violent crime are designed for warfare, not sport.  But what do the gun lovers care?  They want the big sexy guns (penis extensions) so they can fantasize about being an action movie star.  Never a concern for the violence those guns cause, just the little boy thrill of shooting like Rambo or Dirty Harry.



Again I will ask, which weapons are designed for warfare?

Muzzle loading muskets?

You have no idea what you are ranting insanely about.
You have been fed some propaganda and quite frankly pigged out on it.

All 4 guns I own in the USA serve a purpose.
Two hunting rifles, one was designed for warfare, short mag LEE ENFIELD .303 ideal for larger deer and moose.
RUGER for deer
Remington 870 for turkey .
FN ps 90 for target shooting and personal defense.

What I keep in Africa would cause you to have a nervous breakdown!!


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 23, 2013)

Lonestar_logic said:


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yes 

Girandoni 22 rounds a minute

not bad for the 1790s

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pqFyKh-rUI]Girandoni air rifle as used by Lewis and Clark. A National Firearms Museum Treasure Gun. - YouTube[/ame]


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 23, 2013)

jon_berzerk said:


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Interesting, thanks !!


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 23, 2013)

Brain357 said:


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The Menendez Brothers, notorious killers of their parents ? truTV's Crime Library ? Prelude ? Crime Library on truTV.com

Only brainless morons think like you do.


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 23, 2013)

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actually i was incorrect 

they had been able to shoot 20 shots in 30 seconds with the rifle

or 40 hard hitting rounds in a minute

you are welcome


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 23, 2013)

Brain357 said:


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That was hilarious.

Statistics also show a link between homicide and the full moon, that must mean astrology is true.

The above sentence is why you will never understand how stupid you are.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 23, 2013)

Nosmo King said:


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That isn't a factor in urban overcrowding, is it?


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 23, 2013)

Nosmo King said:


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The 2nd Amendment was written for muzzle loaders like this.


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 23, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


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that is a beautiful cannon


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 23, 2013)

Nosmo King said:


> And we all knew that the gun lovers would spend time picking fly shit out of ground pepper and concentrate on the rate of fire, not the fact that gang bangers are not skilled marksmen and actually require a fast rate of fire to hit what they intend to and have time for escape.
> 
> Gun violence a public safety issue?  Absolutely.  Especially when the guns used in violent crime are designed for warfare, not sport.  But what do the gun lovers care?  They want the big sexy guns (penis extensions) so they can fantasize about being an action movie star.  Never a concern for the violence those guns cause, just the little boy thrill of shooting like Rambo or Dirty Harry.



Speaking as a guy who has trouble hitting the broadside of a barn I can tell you from experience that shooting faster decreases the chance of hitting anything.


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## Brain357 (Sep 23, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


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Funny how all the statistics and studies are on my side.  Why is the right always wrong about everything?


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 23, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


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Firing chain shot, bag shot or grape shot that muzzle loader can fire 100 rounds per second or more!!!


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 23, 2013)

Brain357 said:


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If the statistics and studies were actually on your side there would be a spike in crime during every recession, and the crime rate in the US would be increasing every year because your mythical income inequality has increased steadily since the Reagan years. Did that happen?

Didn't think so.

You are full of shit, and too stupid to realize that you are relying on psuedo-science. 

On the other hand, you should get along well with rdean, all you need to remember is 6% and 90%.

That is your problem, not mine, but I do enjoy mocking your stupidity.


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## Brain357 (Sep 24, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


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All your showing is that you have no common sense.  Your also not smart enough to use studies and statistics.  Really you just talk out of your rear all the time.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 24, 2013)

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You didn't like the I dependant study I posted about UK mass shootings since 1909.

10 mass shootings in 88 years, then after the firearms act of 1997 there were 14 in 16 years!!!
What's that?
Nearly 10 times more?
Why do you want more mass shootings?


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## JoeB131 (Sep 24, 2013)

Pauli007001 said:


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not true, because they have a mass shooting in the UK about once every 14 years.  

As opposed to the US, where we have one every few months.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 24, 2013)

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Yet the facts, independently collated facts that I linked to showed otherwise.
It listed the names of the killers, the location of the crime and the numbers killed.
If facts are in convienient you will ignore them, right?

Look at Kenya.
The 1991 firearms act and the 2012 extension of the same.
Strict and intense background checks, psych testing, all auto and semi auto weapons are banned, handguns banned, only course qualified hunters may own weapons, strict firearms and ammunition register yet they have just suffered a massive shooting incident.

You going to deny that fact too?


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## JoeB131 (Sep 24, 2013)

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Um, yeah, an organized terrorist army from another country is probably going to be a problem no matter what you do, guy.  

And your "collated facts" were such horseshit you couldn't sell them as manure. 

38 gun deaths in the UK vs. 11,101 in the US.  

Someone ain't doing it right, and it ain't the Brits.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 24, 2013)

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Once every fourteen years?
Link ?

But let's take a look.
The well reported mass killings.
Hungerford , before the 1997 firearms act
Dunblaine, before the firearms act.
Cumbria, after the firearms act.

Roughly 14 years between each.
One was after the ban, telling us what ?

One every fourteen years before the ban!
One every fourteen years post ban!

Great success, changed nothing!!!

That's using your data.  Provided by a nanny state offering empty assurance to its dependent people.

Yet an organization that collates evidence from local news sources, that were never reported nationwide( no free press in the UK) shows a different story.

So your opinion is we need to ban guns so that nothing will change.
Mine is that gun bans will cause an explosion in the numbers of gun crimes and shooting spree's


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 24, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


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Your dragging these figures out of your arse .
No link?
No supporting evidence?

You are a liar, not like that isn't an established fact already!!

Organized terrorist army?
How many gunmen make an army?
They walked across the border, carrying guns that were not allowed?
But there was a ban!!
So the ban didn't work ?
Correct ?


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## Nosmo King (Sep 24, 2013)

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Is this the typical weapon used to rob convenience stores and kill scores of harmless people in theaters and schools?


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## Brain357 (Sep 24, 2013)

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As we determined since Australia has more people living in cities it's a better example.  Australia has had no mass shooting since gun control.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 24, 2013)

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Australia has more people living in cities than the UK?

You fucking dope.
UK, tiny land mass of one larger island and several smaller islands with a population of 70million, the majority of whom live in an urban or suburban setting. 5 major cities .
Australia, 22 million people, massive land mass, several islands, no nearby continents, it's like comparing apples and oranges.
Usa, porus land border to the N and S.
UK open borders as per EU law.
Australia an island far from any large continental mainland
With reasonable border security.
And they have had mass shootings since gun control.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 24, 2013)

```

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Nosmo King said:


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What battlefield weapon has?
Which weapon is used to defend against these attacks?
Several hundred defensive uses of firearms every day.


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## Brain357 (Sep 24, 2013)

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I posted the numbers, Australia has the highest percent living in cities.  Tell me about these mass shootings then.


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## MisterBeale (Sep 24, 2013)

There are two ways to stop these mass shootings as far as I can tell.  They fall into two categories.  

Mass gangland shootings and the shootings such as the ones discussed in this thread.

Well, the first we can eliminate the same way we did during the 1920's.  We decriminalized a victimless crime (using alcohol to excessive quantities,) and treated those who harmed themselves as though it were a medical problem.  Today, gangs fight for turf to sell illegal drugs using guns, to the point where some urban centers have unconstitutionally restricted citizens from owning guns to the point now, where the only ones who own guns are the criminals.  These mass gangland rampage shootings rarely make the news.  

Why don't they make the news for the elites agenda to make gun control an issue?  Well, naturally because it doesn't instill _*fear*_ in voters to vote for policy makers who will restrict or curtail their right to bear arms.  Why should they care about the inner city and gang land crime?  And gang members aren't exactly a voting block, nor would they care about curbing the legal right to bear their arms for their nefarious illegal activity if they did vote.  

The real way to end this type of violence is obvious to any thinking person, taking away the cause of the violence, not the means by which they enforce their territory.  It worked with the first prohibition, no reason it wouldn't work now.  But of course, that is a whole other thread.   You want to end gun violence there, end prohibition.




Which brings us to the SECOND type of highly publicized mass shooting.  

Get rid of establishment corruption that wishes to end our rights, you get rid of this type of tragedy.  Fine, I'll say what many have thought in passing.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0VV614-a3w]Alexis Psyop, School Sucks, Panera Cares - New World Next Week - YouTube[/ame]

CIA, mind control & mass shootings - Is there a correlation?
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/58093


> More than a month before the shooting, on August 7, 2013, Alexis reported to police that he was being stalked by unidentified individuals who followed him to three different motels, and these individuals were using some sort of microwave machine to send voices into his body and keeping him awake at night. It is interesting and potentially relevant that Alexis refused to tell police what the voices were instructing him to do. [A copy of the redacted police report can be downloaded in PDF format here]. At this point, I suspect that the majority of the sane among us would simply write Alexis off as mentally ill and unworthy of any further intellectual discourse. But could there be something more to this story?
> 
> While the media has been consistently reporting that Alexis had a long history of mental illness, those who knew Alexis long before and up to the shooting defended his mental stability. Although he reportedly had several previous altercations with the law, it is rather curious that Alexis was not criminally charged in at least two of the more severe of those occasions. A review of his criminal records history might suggest that something else was going on, especially considering his self-described blackouts during those events.
> 
> ...




Whether or not any of this is true, it is true that the entity that kills the most people with guns are people's own governments.  Who benefits the most by making gun ownership illegal?  Free citizens of a nation?  No, certainly not.  Taking freedom away from people is never a good idea.  That posits that people are not sane and logical enough to exercise freedom.  The only entity that benefits are governments and powerful elites.

When the soldiers they are training to oppress and enslave the public wake up and decide to walk out on them, it will be nice that those soldiers have their own guns at home to protect the nation, won't it?  As long as America remains an egalitarian nation and not a brainwashed globalized nation, we will endure.  This issue will forever be a non-starter as long as we remain true to what makes us AMERICAN.  No matter how many innocents these monsters kill, or how many bodies the media elites want to stand on to try to take our freedom.  

It just might be that the one percent that decided to bail out the "too big to fail" banks and corporations have something even more sinister in mind when the next crash comes.  I can assure you, they do.

"_We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time
Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended
our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost
forty years."

"It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world
if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years.
But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a
world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite
and world bankers is surely preferable to the national
auto-determination practiced in past centuries._" 

~David Rockefeller


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 24, 2013)

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I forgot more about statistics than you will ever know.

I told you before, if you think you have a point feel free to start a thread so you can have your ass handed to you.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 24, 2013)

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If you think that thing never shot up a school you are even dumber than I thought.


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## Quantum Windbag (Sep 24, 2013)

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Other than the one it had since then, you are correct.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 24, 2013)

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Does Australia have secure borders?
Does Australia have in its vicinity large continents used by criminal gangs to transport people , guns or drugs across those open or porus borders?

No?

Shut the fuck up, retard.

Where could guns be smuggled into Australia from?

You fucking retard!!

Another case of me saying an orange is orange.
You responding that it cannot be, because your lemon is yellow.


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## theliq (Sep 24, 2013)

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Pauli,you are incorrect in imagining we have closed borders and no importation of illict drugs,infact both illegal refugees and illegal drug imports are a problem here,last week our law enforcement intercepted the largest importation of illict drugs in our history.

No country is immune to the drug trade....Australia included.

You need to do DUE Diligence  before making incorrect wild statements.

steve


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## Brain357 (Sep 24, 2013)

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Is that your new story now?  Before it was which one had more people in cities.  Funny how you have to keep changing.  I think you started with Australia being an island as if the UK wasn't.  Strong argument you make when you have to keep changing.  Sorry but you've got no argument.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 25, 2013)

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I said no such thing about the UK, you need to lie to make your point.

The UK has open borders as per EU regulations.

Australia has much more secure borders.
No mention of the UKs geographic status as an archipelago consisting of over a hundred islands.......

The UK is in swimming distance of mainland Europe with easy and inexpensive acces by train and boat. The route that criminals use to smuggle weaponry into the country.
The preferred weapon of UK criminals is the AK47 or AK74 Styled weapons of former soviet bloc nations.

Now Australia has no land link to other nations. Is not swimming distance to any other nation.
Has no large continental landmass with dozens of recently failed nations whose military weaponry has hit a black market en masse.

Therin the USA post gun ban is far more likely to go the way of the UK than Australia.


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## Pauli007001 (Sep 25, 2013)

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Read the above, dope.
You take a small part of what I say. That in comparison to the UK, Australia has secure borders, and blow it into something it isn't?

More leftist dishonesty.
Lying pile of pig manure.


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