# Does Isreal build on deeded land for"illegal settelements ?



## Mr.Fitnah (Jan 17, 2010)

Does Isreal build on deeded land for"illegal settlements" ? 

It is my opinion they search  for prior owners and request that they come forward and prove ownership with a deed  or proof that the land has been occupied  for at least a 10 year stay before building .
Does anyone have  facts that prove  the Isrealie government is stealing land from people that have not sold there land  prior to  or after the 6 day hoping to reclaim it after the jews were wiped out  or after the war.

I understand if someone had proof of ownership and the jews were building on it illegally. But what if the land was  unowned?

Why cant they build on it/
Why should Israel look like swiss cheese filled with  pockets of supposed  no go zones , why not have  contiguous  land for the jews ?


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## Coyote (Jan 17, 2010)

What about contiguous land for the Palestininians?


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## Mr.Fitnah (Jan 18, 2010)

Fine.


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 18, 2010)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Does Isreal build on deeded land for"illegal settlements" ?
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> It is my opinion they search  for prior owners and request that they come forward and prove ownership with a deed  or proof that the land has been occupied  for at least a 10 year stay before building .
> Does anyone have  facts that prove  the Isrealie government is stealing land from people that have not sold there land  prior to  or after the 6 day hoping to reclaim it after the jews were wiped out  or after the war.
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Undeeded land is communal property, roads, parks, open grazing, etc. all owned collectively by the citizens.


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## Kalam (Jan 18, 2010)

All land under the control of the illegitimate state of Israel is being occupied illegally as far as I'm concerned.


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 18, 2010)

Kalam said:


> All land under the control of the illegitimate state of Israel is being occupied illegally as far as I'm concerned.



http://www.countryseek.com/maps/palestine-map.gif


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## Mr.Fitnah (Jan 18, 2010)

Kalam said:


> All land under the control of the illegitimate state of Israel is being occupied illegally as far as I'm concerned.


Well the land has been  occupied in an unending fashion  by jews  for a few thousand years, 
That you consider jews illegitimate people is irrelevant .
Do you say they steal land owned  by people   who have land deeds to build settlements?
Im not  convinced that is a fact.


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 19, 2010)

Mr.Fitnah said:


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Quite the contrary. There are Jews living in the West Bank who have lived there forever. Their Christian and Muslim friends celebrate Passover with them.


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## Kalam (Jan 19, 2010)

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Try again; less strawman this time.


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## Mr.Fitnah (Jan 19, 2010)

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Bring  your proof if  you have it, From what I understand   the isreal government tries to obtain ownership before anything is built.


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 19, 2010)

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Sometime Israel tries to justify the transfer of property through discriminatory law or discriminatory use of the law, but bottom line is that they just steal it.


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 19, 2010)

So called terrorist attacks on Israel are constantly reported. Surely the rockets fired on Sderot were the main excuse for the invasion of Gaza. However, it is never reported that Sderot was built on top of the Palestinian village of Najd. Israel attacked Najd before the war of 1948 driving the indigenous population out of their homes and off their land. Most of those driven out became refugees in Gaza. This was an act of aggression against this farm community.

International law forbids the acquisition of land in acts of aggression. With this in mind, Israel cannot legally claim possession of this land. Further evidence of this is the fact that there is no border between Gaza and Sderot. Israel has built a cage around Gaza, but there is no border there. Also, with this in mind, Hamas and other Palestinian resistance groups have not attacked anyone outside of Palestine. The Palestinians have every legal right to resist this occupation of their land.


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## Mr.Fitnah (Jan 19, 2010)

Your "facts" are wrong.
The  people of Najd where run off  during the arab attack on Israel.


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## Kalam (Jan 19, 2010)

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Why bother? I'm more than familiar with your immunity to proof and suspect that you will support foreign Jewish oppression of the people of Palestine whether it's "legal" or not. Plus, you have an amusing habit of running away whenever your inane ramblings are shown to be wrong, so I don't think I'll waste my time.


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## Kalam (Jan 19, 2010)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Your "facts" are wrong.
> The  people of Najd where run off  during the arab attack on Israel.


They were expelled by Jews during a Haganah offensive known as Operation Barak. Clearly, one must believe that facts are "wrong" in order to be a Zionist.


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 19, 2010)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Your "facts" are wrong.
> The  people of Najd where run off  during the arab attack on Israel.



My facts are correct. Najd was depopulated before any Arab country attacked Israel. There were about 300,000 Palestinian refugees (About 100,000 were Christians.) BEFORE the start of the war.

Look it up!


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## Mr.Fitnah (Jan 19, 2010)

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You made the claim it is  your obligation to prove it.


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## Mr.Fitnah (Jan 19, 2010)

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from your favorite site.

Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 19, 2010)

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Israeli occupation date 	May 13, 1948
Distance from district center 	14 (km) North East of Gaza
Elevation from the sea 	50 (meters)
Map location 	See location number #42 on the map
Israeli military operation 	Operation Barak
Israeli attacking brigade 	Negev Brigade
Exodus Cause 	Expulsion by Jewish troops
Village remains after destruction by Israelis 	The village has been completely defaced
Ethnically cleansing by Israelis 	Najd inhabitants were completely ethnically cleansed.

Najd*-*&#1606;&#1580;&#1583;*

On 13 May, 1948, Najd was occupied by Jewish soldiers from the Negev Brigade as part of Operation Barak.[5] The inhabitants were expelled and fled to Gaza, and the village was then completely destroyed and leveled to the ground. In 1951, the town of Sderot was built over the village lands.

According to Benny Morris, the villagers of Najd were "driven out" by soldiers from the Negev Brigade on 12-13 May

Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Mr.Fitnah (Jan 19, 2010)

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http://www.usmessageboard.com/1918548-post12.html


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 19, 2010)

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Do you have a question?


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## Kalam (Jan 19, 2010)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> from your favorite site.
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> Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Mr.Fitnah (Jan 19, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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What you  cant find your own lie?


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## Mr.Fitnah (Jan 19, 2010)

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Right in your owe face?


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## Kalam (Jan 19, 2010)

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My "owe face" indeed. Was there something you wanted to say?


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## Mr.Fitnah (Jan 19, 2010)

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The land was ceased during aggression, why cant they hold it?


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 19, 2010)

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Could you clarify your point?


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## Kalam (Jan 19, 2010)

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English, please.


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 19, 2010)

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What lie?


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## Toronado3800 (Jan 19, 2010)

This holy land thing is one big 2,000 plus year circle of "I was here firsts".

If Islam doesn't catch up to the 17th century pretty soon and learn to play nice with civilians in the rest of the world then they'll continue to find little support.

Even if the "average" white supremacist in Alabama or Berlin hates Jews he has more hatred for folks who hijack his country's airplanes.

SO, he likely views a world with a strong Israel and a number of weak broken Muslim countries as a safer place.  

Heck, if he's pragmatic he'll figure out that keeping Israel in place and "attackable" gives Muslims something to do besides attack Americans.

So I say "whatever" to Palestinian claims on land.  Perhaps a few more years of Islamic genetic engineering will lead to the premature death by suicide bombing of the true believers and create a culture of cowards.


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## Mr.Fitnah (Jan 20, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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Israel attacked Najd before the war of 1948 driving the indigenous population out of their homes and off their land.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/1918548-post12.html


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 20, 2010)

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The only thing I said that was inaccurate, but not necessarily a lie, was that "Israel attacked Najd" when the fact was that Israel did not exist yet. Later, when the invading foreigners declared themselves to be a state, the name changed but it was the same people.

There is an agreed history between Israel and Palestine. Israeli documents say that the attack on Najd was May 12-13, 1948. Palestine gives the occupation date as May 13, 1948. They both claim the attack was by the Negev Brigade during Operation Barak.

Operation Barak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You will notice that this attack, and many more like it, transpired before May 15, 1948 when Israel declared itself to be a state and had to "defend itself" from neighboring states.


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## Mr.Fitnah (Jan 20, 2010)

Yeah Ok   that is good information , Both sides have a point 
Thanks. can we get to the issue  of  the here and now of  the OP?


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 20, 2010)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Yeah Ok   that is good information , Both sides have a point
> Thanks. can we get to the issue  of  the here and now of  the OP?



I don't think Israel gives a rat's behind about deeds or original ownership. If a Palestinian challenges Israel's theft, it merely slows them down a little bit. They take it anyway.

Surely it was not an issue when they stole Najd or the hundreds of other Palestinian villages they attacked. They attacked Najd, threw the people out and built the settlement of Sderot on the remains.


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## Mr.Fitnah (Jan 20, 2010)

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Considering the times failing to prepare for warfare would have been foolish  the tactics made sense.
At this point in time,  before anything is built  the Israel government goes through extensive research to find ownership of lands before build goes on.
Yes or no?


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 20, 2010)

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Israel has the guns and bulldozers. I don't think deeds are any of their concern.


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## Mr.Fitnah (Jan 20, 2010)

Thanks.
The Illegal-Settlements Myth


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 20, 2010)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Thanks.
> The Illegal-Settlements Myth



This person states that Israel won the West Bank from Jordan and Gaza from Egypt. He did not state how Jordan and Egypt got this land to lose.


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## Mr.Fitnah (Jan 20, 2010)

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Well that is a matter of record isnt it?

]The land has been  occupied  for time before the advent of  Islam.


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 20, 2010)

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Egypt occupied Gaza. The Palestinians did nor cede any land to Egypt. Egypt never won any land as there was no war between Egypt and Palestine.

The same for Jordan.

Hence Israel merely won occupation. They won no land.

That is why Israel merely occupies Gaza and the West Bank.


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## Mr.Fitnah (Jan 20, 2010)

There are no "Palestinian" people .


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 21, 2010)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> There are no "Palestinian" people .



A lot of people say that but the Palestinians are not convinced.


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## Marc39 (Jan 22, 2010)

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Arabs are not convinced, dummy.

Arab commentator Azmi Bishara...
"There Is No Pallie Nation"
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3n5-yG-6dU]YouTube - Professor Azmi Bishara: There Is No "Palestinian Nation", Never Was ![/ame]


> Well, I dont think there is a Palestinian nation at all. I think there is an Arab nation. I always thought so and I did not change my mind. I do not think there is a Palestinian nation, I think its a colonialist invention - Palestinian nation. When were there any Palestinians? Where did it come from? I think there is an Arab nation. I never turned to be a Palestinian nationalist, despite of my decisive struggle against the occupation. I think that until the end of the 19th century, Palestine was the south of Greater Syria.



You better get your story straight, retard.


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 23, 2010)

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So, we have millions of people who live or have lived in Palestine who claim to be Palestinians. Their birth certificates say "born in Palestine."

And you post one person who says there are no Palestinians.


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## Marc39 (Feb 25, 2010)

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Jews were known as Palestinians prior to Israeli statehood, dumb dumb.  It was only in the 1960s that the bedouins started calling themselves Pallies.  You're so stupid, it's embarrassing.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 26, 2010)

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Yes there were Palestinian Jews, and Christians, and Muslims. None of them, not even the Palestinian Jews, wanted a Jewish state. The Palestinian attacks on the foreigners before Israel declared itself to be a state were to defend their country. I have seen a Palestinian flag flown as early as 1937.
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These Arab towns and villages were not merely place names on a map. They were developed communities containing farms, factories, stores and schools, with an infrastructure of doctors, lawyers, teachers, engineers, merchants, mechanics, industrialists, workers and farmers which would be the envy of any developing country today. Yet the Zionists not only deny the developed state of the Palestine which they usurped or destroyed, but even deny the identity and existence of the Palestinians. They claim that the "British created the Palestinian identity ." This is easily belied by such evidence as the existence of a modem Arabic-language newspaper named Filastin, which addressed its readers as Palestinians in 1911, six years before the Balfour Declaration and well before the commencement of the British Mandate.(13)

Chapter 2: Encyclopedia of the Palestine Problem


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## Marc39 (Feb 26, 2010)

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Retard, didn't I explain to you in another thread there was no country called Palestine?
Do you have OCD in addition to being mentally retarded, repeating falsehoods you know are false?  If you were in my family, I'd seek psychiatric help for you.

Historian Bernard Lewis...


> For Arabs, Palestine was unacceptable, though for other reasons. For Muslims it was alien and irrelevant but not abhorrent in the same way as it was to Jews. The main objection for them was that it seemed to assert a separate entity which politically conscious Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere denied. For them *there was no such thing as a country called Palestine. The region which the British called Palestine was merely a separated part of a larger whole.  Palestine was not a country and had no frontiers, only administrative boundaries; it was a group of provincial subdivisions, by no means always the same, within a larger entity.  For a long time organized and articulate Arab political opinion was virtually unanimous on this point.*
> At first, the country of which Palestine was a part was felt to be Syria. In Ottoman times, that is, immediately before the coming of the British, Palestine had indeed been a part of a larger Syrian whole from which it was in no way distinguished whether by language, culture, education, administration, political allegiance, or any other significant respect. The dividing line between British-mandated Palestine and French-mandated Syria-Lebanon was an entirely new one and for the people of the area was wholly artificial. It was therefore natural that the nationalist leadership when it first appeared should think in Syrian terms and describe Palestine as southern Syria.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 26, 2010)

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A rose by any other name...


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 28, 2010)

How Israel gets land.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvQvYaRjwXs]YouTube - Palestinian Home Demolition by Israeli Government[/ame]


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## Marc39 (Feb 28, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> How Israel gets land.
> YouTube - Palestinian Home Demolition by Israeli Government



The forum dunce posts, again.  Dunce, you didn't post a video of the Israeli government demolishing Jewish homes.

You see, dunce, when Pallies or Jews build illegal homes without architectural and engineering consultation and not in code with building standards, and, when Pallies do so on land they do not own, the state of Israel has an obligation to demolish the death traps.  No modern country allows the construction of illegally built houses.

You, dumb, fucking dunce.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 28, 2010)

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So says the lying sacks of chit in Israel.

Why do Palestinians have to get permits from foreigners to build on their own land in their own country?


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## Marc39 (Feb 28, 2010)

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The forum dunce is getting angry being shown to be an ignorant fool.  I enjoy getting under your skin, you mental defective.

Palestinians have no country, shithead.  Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire for 400 years, dope.

Middle East historian and scholar Bernard Lewis...


> For Arabs, the term Palestine was unacceptable. For Muslims it was alien and irrelevant but not abhorrent in the same way as it was to Jews. The main objection for them was that it seemed to assert a separate entity which politically conscious Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere denied. *For them there was no such thing as a country called Palestine.* The region which the British called Palestine was merely a separated part of a larger whole.  *Palestine was not a country and had no frontiers, only administrative boundaries; it was a group of provincial subdivisions, by no means always the same, within a larger entity.  For a long time organized and articulate Arab political opinion was virtually unanimous on this point*.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 28, 2010)

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Did the Ottomans take Palestine with them when they left?


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## Marc39 (Feb 28, 2010)

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The Ottomans surrendered sovereignty over all of the Empire, including Palestine, to the World War I Allies in signing the Treaty of Sevres, moron.

Most of Palestine was state-owned land, stupid.

You're the forum dunce.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 28, 2010)

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Too bad Britain left before they created a homeland for the Jews. They must have left it to the natives.


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## Marc39 (Feb 28, 2010)

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Too bad you're the forum dunce who is unable to refute me.  

The British did not have sovereignty over Palestine.   Sovereignty was vested in the Jews via international treaties adopted at the conclusion of WW I that were transferred from the League of Nations to the UN.  The Jewish homeland is established by the Palestine Mandate.

You're the forum dunce.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 28, 2010)

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They were planning to but they didn't. They threw up their hands and left it to the UN.


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## Marc39 (Feb 28, 2010)

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You know nothing, forum dunce.  The Palestine Mandate establishing Palestine as the Jewish homeland is a trust that supercedes the British.  The trust was transferred to the UN at the dissolution of the League of Nations.  The British presence had no legal effect on the matter.

You're the forum dunce.  Go sit in the corner wearing your pointy hat.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 28, 2010)

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Answer me this. If there was in fact a Jewish homeland in Palestine Why did the UN try to partition that homeland.


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## Marc39 (Feb 28, 2010)

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The forum dunce has a question.  The Palestine Mandate establishing the Jewish homeland in Palestine is the only fact needed in your empty head.

You're the forum dunce.


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## Mr.Fitnah (Feb 28, 2010)

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You mean the  Jewish people
Who have been there for 3500 years.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 28, 2010)

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Why do you wimp out when it comes answering questions?


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## Marc39 (Feb 28, 2010)

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You ask questions that either have been answered previously, which you are unable to assimmilate due to your mental disability, or, that require some study.  In either case, you ask questions because you're a dolt.


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## Dr Grump (Feb 28, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Middle East historian and scholar Bernard Lewis...
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This Bernard Lewis?

Lewis' views on the issue were criticized by human rights activists, historians and scholars, including Alain Finkielkraut, Yves Ternon, Richard G. Hovannisian, Albert Memmi, Pierre Vidal-Naquet,[35][36] Robert Melson,[37] David B. MacDonald,[38] Norman Finkelstein;[39] Stephen Zunes described him as a "notorious genocide-denier".[40] According to historian Yair Auron, "Lewis stature provided a lofty cover for the Turkish national agenda of obfuscating academic research on the Armenian Genocide".[41] Israel Charny wrote about Lewis' views that "the seemingly scholarly concern with putting the historical facts in the context of Armenians constituting a threat to the Turks as a rebellious force who together with the Russians threatened the Ottoman Empire, and the insistence that only a policy of deportations was executed, barely conceal the fact that the organized deportations constituted systematic mass murder".[42] Charny compares the "logical structures" employed by Lewis in his denial of the genocide to those employed by Ernst Nolte in his Holocaust negationism.[43]


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## Marc39 (Feb 28, 2010)

Dr Grump said:


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 1, 2010)

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My question was relevant and it has not been addressed. It is said that The League of Nations/Palestine Mandate created a homeland for the Jews, i.e. a Jewish state, in all of Palestine. It was a done deal.

Then at a later date the UN partitions Palestine into a Jewish state and Arab state. It is said that the Zionists accepted this partition while the Arabs rejected it.

This does not make sense. Why would the Zionists accept a part of a state when they already had the whole pie? And why would the UN partition when it was already a done deal?


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## Marc39 (Mar 1, 2010)

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I have already addressed the matter, however, your mental disability gets in the way of assimmilating it.   Too bad you weren't aborted.  Must be sadto go through life mentally disturbed.


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## Shogun (Mar 1, 2010)

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clearly, in THIS case you dance around answering him because you are a giant PUSSY.


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## Marc39 (Mar 1, 2010)

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Go back to sleep.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 2, 2010)

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You have never answered that question.

The truth is that they planned to create a homeland for the Jews but the plan failed. It flopped. It never happened.

Plan B was to have the UN create a Jewish state. That flopped too. It never happened.

When the foreigners declared themselves to be a state in Palestine they had no legitimacy to hang their yarmulke on.


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## Marc39 (Mar 2, 2010)

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Your mental disability makes it hard to instruct you.  You have everyone's sympathy.
Both the League of Nations and the UN have bestowed legitimacy on Israeli statehood, making Israel unique.

You are a legitimate dunce.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 2, 2010)

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And when I ask you to present any documentation to back up your claim you duck the issue.

You must not like your answer.

BTW, The League of Nations did define borders for what they called the state of Palestine. They are recognized, undisputed, and have not change since 1922. Israel has no borders and resides inside Palestine.


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## Shogun (Mar 2, 2010)

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keep crying, you broken record.  It's fun to watch you get batted around on the head and neck.  No wonder you dive into repeat cycle while being totally PWNed in these threads..

sheesh.


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## Marc39 (Mar 2, 2010)

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Go back to sleep.


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## del (Mar 2, 2010)

since south africa reformed, israel is my favorite apartheid country.

the u.s. would do well to copy some of israel's policies, like making it easy to identify minority groups via license plates.


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## Shogun (Mar 2, 2010)

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make me, bitch.


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## actsnoblemartin (Mar 2, 2010)

I love ya shogun, but your wrong 

and so is tin dude, i forgot his name

Israel's border was defined by the u.n. in 1948. 

do your history 



Shogun said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Shogun said:
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## actsnoblemartin (Mar 2, 2010)

offers you milk and cookies 



Shogun said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
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> ...


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## actsnoblemartin (Mar 2, 2010)

what is your question, maybe ill take a stab at it



P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
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> > P F Tinmore said:
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## P F Tinmore (Mar 2, 2010)

actsnoblemartin said:


> I love ya shogun, but your wrong
> 
> and so is tin dude, i forgot his name
> 
> ...



The borders for the "state of Palestine" and the "state of Jordan" were defined in 1922 when the Palestine Mandate was divided into those two states. Those borders have not changed.

UN resolution 181 defined the border between Israel and Palestine but that resolution was never implemented. No one in the world including Israel and Palestine recognize that border.

The 1949 armistice agreement between Israel and five neighboring states, but excluding Palestine, laid out divisions of occupation. Egypt would occupy the Gaza Strip, Jordan would occupy the West Bank, and Israel would occupy the rest. The "Green Line" between these occupations was explicitly stated to not to be national or political borders.

Palestine's borders are the same as they were in 1922.

Israel has no borders.


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## actsnoblemartin (Mar 2, 2010)

care to produce a document showing that?

I believe the balfour document supercedes that at 1916



P F Tinmore said:


> actsnoblemartin said:
> 
> 
> > I love ya shogun, but your wrong
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 2, 2010)

actsnoblemartin said:


> care to produce a document showing that?
> 
> I believe the balfour document supercedes that at 1916
> 
> ...



The Balfour declaration did not specify any borders.There was planned to be a "homeland for the Jews" IN Palestine. It did not mention a Jewish state. It did specify that the rights of the non Jewish population would not be compromised. This plan was never implemented. No homeland was established. The failure of the British to put this plan in place caused them to hand the problem to the UN.


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## actsnoblemartin (Mar 2, 2010)

Im still confused about something. Were not arguing, were having a conversation.

So im asking, where is this 1922 document that says what palestines borders are?

From various research, the arabs, rejected the u.n. particition (cant spell) of israel and palestine as two valid nations.

Are you for a two state or one state solution?



P F Tinmore said:


> actsnoblemartin said:
> 
> 
> > care to produce a document showing that?
> ...


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## actsnoblemartin (Mar 2, 2010)

what i dont understand is:

Their are a percentage of I dont like to use the word people for them, but those who wish death to the jews, by pushing them into the sea since 1948 and earlier.

Jews and christians dont deserve to live in the holy lands, but muslims do?

It seems to me, that those who dont want the jews in israel, simply dont like the jews period.

Thats my opinion.

also, millions of jews, were kicked out of arab lands in 1948, are they going to get their homes back to?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 2, 2010)

actsnoblemartin said:


> Im still confused about something. Were not arguing, were having a conversation.
> 
> So im asking, where is this 1922 document that says what palestines borders are?
> 
> ...



In classical or contemporary terms, it is also the common name for the area west of the Jordan River. The boundaries of two new states were laid down within the territory of the British Mandate, Palestine and Transjordan.

Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Palestine was the area west of the Jordan river. the borders were defined between Palestine and Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. Those borders remain undisputed by Palestine's neighbors.

http://files.myopera.com/Weatherlawyer/albums/668873/Pre 1947 Districts Map of Palestine.png


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 3, 2010)

actsnoblemartin said:


> what i dont understand is:
> 
> Their are a percentage of I dont like to use the word people for them, but those who wish death to the jews, by pushing them into the sea since 1948 and earlier.
> 
> ...



These are common misperceptions promulgated by Israeli Propaganda. I remember one Jew saying about the religious culture in Palestine: "Our grandmothers used to babysit each others children," Trust or hate?

Cultural Catholic - Gaza's Christian Community

Birzeit University : Palestine


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## Marc39 (Mar 3, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> actsnoblemartin said:
> 
> 
> > care to produce a document showing that?
> ...



The Forum Dunce posts, again, above.

Dunce, the term "Jewish National Home" in the Balfour Declaration, San Remo Resoluiton and Palestine Mandate refers to a Jewish state.  In the Basle Programme of the First Zionist Congress,, similar nomenclature was used...


> Zionism seeks to establish a *home for the Jewish people *in Palestine secured under public law. The Congress contemplates the following means to the attainment of this end...



Furthermore, Forum Dunce, all key figures from Lord Balfour to Winston Churchill to PM Lloyd George to Woodrow Wilson have gone on record as stating their vision of an eventual Jewish state in Palestine flowing from the Balfour Declaration.

Non-Jews' rights are not compromised in Israel, in fact, they are constitutionally guaranteed.

Thus, you continue to earn the honor of being the Forum Dunce.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 4, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > actsnoblemartin said:
> ...



"... Lord Balfour to Winston Churchill to PM Lloyd George to Woodrow Wilson..."

Too bad the Palestinians thwarted the plans of these foreign, imperialist, crooks.

No such "homeland for the Jews" was ever formed.


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## Marc39 (Mar 4, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
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Forum Dunce, it was the Pallies who were imperialists having invaded Palestine in the 7th century from Arabia, from where they originated.  Read up on the Battle of Yarmouk, you dildo.

Today, many Pallies are named al-Masri (The Egyptian) and Maghrebi (Maghreb, Africa), reflecting their other places of origin.

You are way, way over your head, fool.  You have been proven a total ignorant moron.

You remain the Forum Dunce.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 4, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> > Marc39 said:
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Yeah, blah, blah, blah from Mr. Scholar who studied ME history in university and can never answer a question.

We all know that this was their plan, but, what were the procedures to carry out the plan? Who was to ensure that the plan was implemented? When was it done? Why did the UN have to come in at a later date to try again?


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## Marc39 (Mar 4, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
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> > P F Tinmore said:
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We all know, except you, that imperialist Muslims created the Ottoman Empire spanning 8 million square miles, twice the size of the US, and, today, imperialist Muslims dominate the entire Middle East, encompassing 9 million square miles.

Israel, the size of Vermont, is merely 8 thousand square miles.

Who are the imperialists, dopey?


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## del (Mar 4, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
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> > P F Tinmore said:
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hey, he's only a freshman, and it is rutgers after all. 

cut him some slack


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 4, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> > Marc39 said:
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How many "Muslim" countries have colonies in other countries?

And, of course, you sidestepped my questions because you don't know jack about this history.


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## Marc39 (Mar 4, 2010)

del said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
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Did you study chat room monitoring in school?  Good luck with your "internet" career.  LOL


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## del (Mar 4, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



no, it wasn't offered. i had to take EE instead.

how's mary's pool? did you finally get the ph level right?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 4, 2010)

del said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
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Rutgers? I thought he went to Propaganda U. in Tel Aviv.


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## del (Mar 4, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> del said:
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> > P F Tinmore said:
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he's on the wait list.


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## Marc39 (Mar 4, 2010)

del said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> > del said:
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You must have very impressive academic credentials given your career achievements as a chat room monitor.  Heh heh


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## del (Mar 4, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
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if i'd never gotten past third grade, i'd still be ahead of you, scarlet knight.

btw, this isn't a chat room. 

have one of the big kids to explain the difference to you.


ask them to use small words, otay?


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## Coyote (Mar 4, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
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> > P F Tinmore said:
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He also claimed to live in Israel.....perhaps he needs a "reality" check up.


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## Marc39 (Mar 4, 2010)

del said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
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You are a chat room monitor.  LOL.  You obviously never got past the third grade.  The guy in the airport who cleans the toilet bowls has stronger academic credentials than you.  Plus, he makes more money.


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## del (Mar 4, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> del said:
> 
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i'll bet you're all the rage in airport restrooms, wide stance.

does he let you suck his dick for free?


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## Marc39 (Mar 4, 2010)

del said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
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Nice language coming from a chat room moderator.   Everyone must be so proud of what has become of you.


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## Shogun (Mar 4, 2010)

Del is a fine mod and clearly wanted in that role around here...


....I bet little chosen boy can't find 5 people to say the same about his membership without pulling the "i'm a jew so do what I tell you to do or you must hate jews" card....


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## del (Mar 4, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
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is everyone proud of you for trolling airport men's rooms for sex with the janitor?


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## Coyote (Mar 4, 2010)

del said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
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I think you're overestimating his skills....riffling through the lady's room trash cans is more like it.


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## actsnoblemartin (Mar 4, 2010)

marc is my hero

but shogun is still a good friend of mine


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## Marc39 (Mar 4, 2010)

Coyote said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



You must be proud of yourself, sweetheart.


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## Marc39 (Mar 4, 2010)

del said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...



But, you're really a chat room monitor.  Busted.   Must be embarrassing during Thanksgiving, eh?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 4, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
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You are a scholar. You should have this information at your fingertips.


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## Marc39 (Mar 4, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
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You're the Forum Dunce


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## del (Mar 4, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
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not as embarrassing as living in newark must be.

i usually take thanksgiving off and feed the homeless.

i'll save some candied yams just for you.


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## RadiomanATL (Mar 4, 2010)

del said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
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too subtle.










Not that is was actually all that subtle. Gotta take into account the intended audience though.


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## jillian (Mar 4, 2010)

del said:


> not as embarrassing as living in newark must be.



But Newark has some very good Portugese restaurants... 

and their mayor is awesome.


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## del (Mar 4, 2010)

RadiomanATL said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
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true dat.

what was i thinking?


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## del (Mar 4, 2010)

jillian said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > not as embarrassing as living in newark must be.
> ...



mmmmm, forbidden linguica and kale soup. 

not that i can afford to go out on what i make as a *chat room monitor*, but if i start saving now, i can probably go for thanksgiving.

maybe meet the mayor. 


w00t!!!!!


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## del (Mar 4, 2010)

RadiomanATL said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.


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## Valerie (Mar 4, 2010)

del said:


> jillian said:
> 
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> > del said:
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## jillian (Mar 4, 2010)

del said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...



well, if that doesn't work out, there's an IKEA in Elizabeth. I hear they have good Swedish meatballs. 

Cory Booker actually answers people's tweets to him. I saw someone ask him to get the snow on his mom's street cleaned up last week. He tweeted back that he'd send a crew out to look at the block. I thought that was pretty cool.


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## jillian (Mar 4, 2010)

del said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
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 how quickly they forget.


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## Coyote (Mar 4, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...



Indeed I am sweetcheeks....I remember our lessons in Kindergarten...
Share everything. 
Play fair. 
Don't hit people. 
Put things back where you found them. 
Clean up your own mess. 
Don't take things that aren't yours. 
Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody. 
Wash your hands before you eat. 
Flush. 
Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you. 
Live a balanced life - learn some and think some and draw and paint and sing and dance and play and work every day some. 
Take a nap every afternoon. 
When you go out in the world, watch out for traffic, hold hands and stick together. 
And then remember the Dick-and-Jane books and the first word you learned - the biggest word of all - DICK. 

Now don't be a dick Marc...k?


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## RadiomanATL (Mar 4, 2010)

del said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
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S'okay.

It's the thought that counts.


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## del (Mar 4, 2010)

jillian said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...



that is pretty cool. 

if someone asked menino to twitter, i think he'd start doing bird calls.


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## RadiomanATL (Mar 4, 2010)

jillian said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > RadiomanATL said:
> ...



What did I forget?


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## jillian (Mar 4, 2010)

RadiomanATL said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...



not you.. Del forgot that he gave me one of those 'gave out too much rep in 24 hour' community chest type cards.


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## jillian (Mar 4, 2010)

del said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...



I'm scared.


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## del (Mar 4, 2010)

jillian said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
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i thought i paid off on that?

dammit, i've got to get quickbooks to keep track of this stuff


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## RadiomanATL (Mar 4, 2010)

jillian said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...



I'm waiting for the "bank error in your favor" cards.

Or maybe the 2nd place in a beauty contest,


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## del (Mar 4, 2010)

RadiomanATL said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > RadiomanATL said:
> ...



luxury tax. pay 10% or $75.00


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## RadiomanATL (Mar 4, 2010)

del said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...



You obviously haven't seen what I drive. Luxury....lol.


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## jillian (Mar 4, 2010)

del said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > RadiomanATL said:
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nope... i passed go and did not collect $200


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## Jos (Mar 9, 2010)

> Israel has announced the building of 1,600 new homes in east Jerusalem, in a move that threatens to overshadow US Vice-President Joe Biden's visit.
> 
> The move has angered Palestinians, whose leaders have only recently agreed to resume contacts with Israel - at Mr Biden's urging.
> 
> ...


BBC News - Israel announces East Jerusalem homes as Biden visits
International law


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Mar 9, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> [
> How many "Muslim" countries have colonies in other countries?
> 
> And, of course, you sidestepped my questions because you don't know jack about this history.



The ummah, the islamic nation has carved out entire sections of  countries.

Interview with firefighters in Sweden&#8217;s &#8216;no go zones&#8217;.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt77xc8ESkE]YouTube - Firemen in Sweden interview[/ame]
TruthTube. tv Muslims Louts Go On Violent Rampage In Oslo Norway.
TheOPINIONATOR: SHOCKER!! Muslim No-Go Areas Harming Community Cohesiveness in Britain
The 751 No-Go Zones of France :: Daniel Pipes
Ramadan Rioting in Europe&#039;s No-Go Areas | The Brussels Journal
Muslim Terrorist Training Camps in North America


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## Marc39 (Mar 9, 2010)

Jos said:


> > Israel has announced the building of 1,600 new homes in east Jerusalem, in a move that threatens to overshadow US Vice-President Joe Biden's visit.
> >
> > The move has angered Palestinians, whose leaders have only recently agreed to resume contacts with Israel - at Mr Biden's urging.
> >
> ...



Jerusalem is the historic capital of the Jewish people, thus, it is entirely appropriate they build homes there.

You don't even know what occupation is, dildo.


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## Marc39 (Mar 9, 2010)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...


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## actsnoblemartin (Mar 10, 2010)

you expect them to read and understand history?





Marc39 said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
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## P F Tinmore (Mar 10, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


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## Si modo (Mar 10, 2010)

Kalam said:


> All land under the control of the illegitimate state of Israel is being occupied illegally as far as I'm concerned.


There you have it.  Israel should not exist.

I am glad Israel has nukes.


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## Marc39 (Mar 10, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Fitnah said:
> ...


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## Kalam (Mar 10, 2010)

Si modo said:


> Israel should not exist.


I agree.



Si modo said:


> I am glad Israel has nukes.


Will they bomb themselves?


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## Marc39 (Mar 10, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Israel should not exist.
> ...



Israel must protect itself from terrorist Muhammadans jealous of their success and their real prophets.

Qur'an 33:26... 


> Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before.


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## Kalam (Mar 10, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Israel must protect itself from terrorist Muhammadans jealous of their success and their real prophets.


Good luck with that. 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GtGSvyc1Sk]YouTube - Sanakhodo ????? ??????? ????[/ame]



Marc39 said:


> Qur'an 33:26...
> 
> 
> > Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before.



Since you've lied about the Talmud, it's no surprise that you'd be dishonest in quoting God's word as well:
_And He drove down those of the followers of the Book who backed them (the besieging enemy) from their fortresses and He cast awe into their hearts; some you killed and you took captive another part._ - 33:26​
It's a bit ironic that you'd quote that passage. It refers to a famous example of certain Jews claiming to be loyal while clandestinely aiding an enemy.


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## Marc39 (Mar 10, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Israel must protect itself from terrorist Muhammadans jealous of their success and their real prophets.
> ...



Nothing ironic about Muhammad and his pirates slaughtering and expelling the entire Jewish community of Medina, stealing their land and possessions (You know, the booty that Allah wants) and culminating in the beheading of 800 Jews, which Muhammad watched from morning to night along with his 6 year-old infant wife.

On his deathbed, Muhammad gave his infamous curse against the Jews that no Jew, or Christian, shall live in Arabia.  His curse came true. 

But, the true irony is 1400 years later, Jews in Israel have far outpaced the Arabs and Muslims in creating one of the most advanced, successful and prosperous countries in the world, while the Arabs and Muslims languish in poverty, repression and decay.

Allah is a loser.

So, too, are you, Muslim dog.


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## del (Mar 10, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



apartheid certainly has its advantages.


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## Marc39 (Mar 10, 2010)

del said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



Except, you don't even know what apartheid is, chat room boy.  Everyone is sooo proud of your accomplishments.


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## Shogun (Mar 10, 2010)

...says the concrete specialist.


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## Kalam (Mar 10, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Nothing ironic about Muhammad and his pirates slaughtering and expelling the entire Jewish community of Medina, stealing their land and possessions (You know, the booty that Allah wants) and culminating in the beheading of 800 Jews, which Muhammad watched from morning to night along with his 6 year-old infant wife.
> 
> On his deathbed, Muhammad gave his infamous curse against the Jews that no Jew, or Christian, shall live in Arabia.  His curse came true.
> 
> ...


I see that you're continuing to lie about everything when speaking to goyim... just like the Talmud tells you to.


----------



## Marc39 (Mar 10, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Nothing ironic about Muhammad and his pirates slaughtering and expelling the entire Jewish community of Medina, stealing their land and possessions (You know, the booty that Allah wants) and culminating in the beheading of 800 Jews, which Muhammad watched from morning to night along with his 6 year-old infant wife.
> ...



I see you have not read the Quran, the Sunna nor the Sira, as I have.   You know nothing of Islam, kafir.  LOL

One-third of all Arabs are illiterate.  50% of Arab women are illiterate.   You're all still dumb camel drivers, while Israel is one of the most advanced countries in the world.

Allah is a loser.  You are a loser.


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## Shogun (Mar 11, 2010)

Run from a child-eating she bear, jew!  Killing children is FUN when you are hebrew!  If only there were a drunk jew around to fuck his daughters...


----------



## Marc39 (Mar 11, 2010)

Shogun said:


> Run from a child-eating she bear, jew!  Killing children is FUN when you are hebrew!  If only there were a drunk jew around to fuck his daughters...



Go back to sleep, stoner.


----------



## Shogun (Mar 11, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> > Run from a child-eating she bear, jew!  Killing children is FUN when you are hebrew!  If only there were a drunk jew around to fuck his daughters...
> ...



still can't seem to make me, blood drinker.  That must be pretty frustrating after a hard day of pouring concrete.


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## actsnoblemartin (Mar 11, 2010)

you suck



Kalam said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Israel should not exist.
> ...


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## Si modo (Mar 11, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Israel should not exist.
> ...


You're still the good little Muslim practicing deceit.





Si modo said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > All land under the control of the illegitimate state of Israel is being occupied illegally as far as I'm concerned.
> ...


----------



## Marc39 (Mar 11, 2010)

Shogun said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Shogun said:
> ...



Go back to sleep, stoner.  I own you.


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## Coyote (Mar 11, 2010)

Wow....I stop by to look in on this thread every now and then and damn if Marc isn't still going....and going....and....


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## Kalam (Mar 11, 2010)

Si modo said:


> You're still the good little Muslim practicing deceit.


Thank you for the non-sequiturial response. May we continue our discussion, or did you want to say something else?


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## actsnoblemartin (Mar 11, 2010)

I am disappointed that you believe israel doesnt have a right to exist.

Muslims can  have a right to have 57 homelands but jews cant have 1



Kalam said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > You're still the good little Muslim practicing deceit.
> ...


----------



## Kalam (Mar 11, 2010)

actsnoblemartin said:


> I am disappointed that you believe israel doesnt have a right to exist.
> 
> Muslims can  have a right to have 57 homelands but jews cant have 1
> 
> ...



Not at the expense of those who had been living there, no. If you want to move to another part of the world, integrate into the existing society.


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## Marc39 (Mar 11, 2010)

Kalam said:


> actsnoblemartin said:
> 
> 
> > I am disappointed that you believe israel doesnt have a right to exist.
> ...



When can we expect the Islamo jihadists who invaded and conquered the Middle East and North Africa, killing millions of Christians, to leave for another part of the world?


----------



## actsnoblemartin (Mar 16, 2010)

you do realize, jews have lived their for centuries and that the palestinians are as arab as egypt or saudi arabia right?

yet the jews, cant have a homeland?



Kalam said:


> actsnoblemartin said:
> 
> 
> > I am disappointed that you believe israel doesnt have a right to exist.
> ...


----------



## Kalam (Mar 16, 2010)

actsnoblemartin said:


> you do realize, jews have lived their for centuries


Some did, and they lived without a Jewish state. Why were those who emigrated later unable to assimilate? Why did they feel it necessary to force their laws on Muslims and Christians?



actsnoblemartin said:


> and that the palestinians are as arab as egypt or saudi arabia right?


What difference does that make? A person's home is a person's home regardless of ethnicity.



actsnoblemartin said:


> yet the jews, cant have a homeland?


Again, nobody should establish a homeland in a particular area if doing so means violating the rights of the people already living there.


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## al Haq (Mar 16, 2010)

actsnoblemartin said:


> you do realize, jews have lived their for centuries and that the palestinians are as arab as egypt or saudi arabia right?
> 
> yet the jews, cant have a homeland?



Egyptians are not Arabs.  Palestinians are not Saudi Arabians.  They all have their own distinct ethnicity, history and culture.

Would you propose that Argentinians and Mexicans are the same because both speak Spanish, both are considered "Latin American," and both are overwhelmingly Catholic?


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## Winston Smith (Mar 17, 2010)

al Haq said:


> actsnoblemartin said:
> 
> 
> > you do realize, jews have lived their for centuries and that the palestinians are as arab as egypt or saudi arabia right?
> ...



of course they're not. that's why they are part of the Arab League, who's prsident is also egyptian and who's HQ is also located in Cairo. that's also why they formed the United Arab Republic alongside syria in the late '50s. 

naturally there are cultural differences between each nations. but that doesen't preclude that they are all part of an arab culture.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 17, 2010)

Winston Smith said:


> al Haq said:
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Is there some relevance here?


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## actsnoblemartin (Mar 17, 2010)

anyone who tells me the jews have no right to a homeland, in my judgment is an anti semite


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 17, 2010)

actsnoblemartin said:


> anyone who tells me the jews have no right to a homeland, in my judgment is an anti semite



I don't have a problem with a Jewish homeland. But they should not have dropped their ass in someone else's country.


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## actsnoblemartin (Mar 17, 2010)

that was the jewish ancestrial homeland

Jews lived their for thousands of years, until they were exiled by the same people who created palestine out of thin air

so yeah, i take issue with you say the jews dont have a right to have a homeland in their ancestrial roots

and further more ...

funny how you say nothing about the 800,000 jews were kicked out of arab lands, in 1948, even though they lived their for centuries



P F Tinmore said:


> actsnoblemartin said:
> 
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> ...


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 17, 2010)

actsnoblemartin said:


> that was the jewish ancestrial homeland
> 
> Jews lived their for thousands of years, until they were exiled by the same people who created palestine out of thin air
> 
> ...



It is true that Jews lived in Palestine forever and were still living in their homeland before Israel. So, what is the point of Israel if Jews were already living in their homeland?


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## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> actsnoblemartin said:
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What is the point of 25 Arab countries, dunce?
The point of Israel is for Jews to have a country in which to exert their self-determination as called for by the UN.

You are the Forum Dunce.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 17, 2010)

Marc39 said:


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Doesn't the native population have priority over foreigners in that self determination thing?


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## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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Native population with no title to land and no sovereignty have no property rights.  Most so-called Palestinians are nothing more than Arab migrants who arrivedin the 20th century after Jews created a flourishing economy and a high standard of living.  Thus, the common Palestinian surnames al-Masri ("The Egyptian") and Maghrebi (Maghreb, Africa)

I've instructed you on this matter, however, your unfortunate mental disability impedes assimmilation of information.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 17, 2010)

Marc39 said:


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Some Palestinians did work their land that was taken from them by the powers that be but that was not even the majority.

BTW, if someone lives in an apartment in...say... New York City have no rights as a citizen because he rents?


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## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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Someone who rents an apartment in...say...New York City doesn't own the apartment.  This is a concept anyone with 5 working brain cells can understand.  You, unfortunately, have 3 brain cells, none of which are functional.

Pallies owned very little land and what small parcels they did own they sold to Jews.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 17, 2010)

Marc39 said:


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NOT! The Jews only owned about 7% of Palestine. All "government owned land" is communal property owned collectively by the citizens.


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## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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The Ottomans and the British kept notoriously inaccurate land ownership records, thus, you really are clueless as to the percentage of Jewish ownership of land.

The Ottoman Turks transferred sovereignty over Palestine to the World War I Allies in signing the Treaty of Sevres.  The Allies transferred sovereignty over Palestine to the Jews in signing the binding San Remo Resolution.

Pallies have no property rights under the law.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 17, 2010)

Marc39 said:


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The British never claimed the ownership of property.


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## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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The British had no ownership of property, dunce.  The British were merely trustees of the binding Palestine Mandate establishing the legal foundation of the state of Israel.

I've instructed you on this matter, however, your mental impairment prevents you from assimmilating information.

You're way over your head, especially since your head is empty of functional grey matter.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 17, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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So the people own the land not the government. Now we are getting somewhere.


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## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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You are getting nowhere.  You're a mental dead end.

You are the Forum Dunce.


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## Winston Smith (Mar 17, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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please...during the '20s and '30s so many arabs sold their lands to jews, that 2 fatwas were issued at the time denounced any arabs that did that as a heretic, including a fatwa fromm the antisemitic haj-amin al-husseini, the grand mufti of jerusalem...


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 17, 2010)

Winston Smith said:


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OK, but the Jews only held a minuscule 7%.


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## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Winston Smith said:
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There is no verifiable proof of the percentage of land owned by Jews.  This is a moot point as international treaty in the form of the San Remo Resolution transferred sovereignty over Palestine from the Ottoman Turks, under whose sovereignty Palestine fell, to the Jews.

You are the Forum Dunce.


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## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

Winston Smith said:


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The Nazi collaborating Grand Mufti sold his land holdings to the Jews while berating the Jews for living in Palestine.  Arabs will sell their grandmothers.


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## Winston Smith (Mar 17, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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don't be so naive. If the problem  was of such miniscule proportions, two powerful figures like the grand mufti and the leader of the muslim brothers would not have bothered with a specific fatwa.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 18, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Winston Smith said:
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Wasn't he appointed by the British?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 18, 2010)

Winston Smith said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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The Jews owned Tel Aviv. A lot of people on little land. Also the kibbutz was a lot of people on little land. Many immigrants rented apartments from Christians and Muslims.

Estimated 30% Jews in 1947 but only 7% land ownership.


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## Marc39 (Mar 18, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Winston Smith said:
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Arabs: 0% land ownership.  Jews win.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 19, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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Au contraire, The majority of the land was locally owned.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 19, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Winston Smith said:
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A very bigoted comment, Israel does not care for defenders such as this, Moshe Dayan lived side by side with Arabs and would of kicked this punks ass for speaking asa  bigot in regards to people Moshe Dayan considerd dear freinds.

Marc39, more like Mac69, you should fuck yourself, you think you know Jews, your a disgrace, you know nothing of history, you are an example of what is ugly within too many human beings. 

Shameful you are. Degrading to all mankind you are.


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## Winston Smith (Mar 19, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Winston Smith said:
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estimated by whom?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 19, 2010)

Winston Smith said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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The Jewish population in Palestine was about 7% before the Mandate and increased to about 30% by 1947. There are different numbers floating around but these are in the ball park. Most are roughly the same. The 7% land ownership is in line with common estimates.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 19, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Winston Smith said:
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Population figures are the most difficult to figure out, just about every book is different, people must be very specifiic as far citing a source and the year. In the 1800's I have seen the figure of around 27% Jewish, around 25% Christian/other and give or take 45% Arab, so with a "grain of salt", Jews/Christian/Other are the minority. Some cities had Arab populations that lived in tents so I am not sure if you can count the Bedouin Arabs as living in Palestine.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 19, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


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I have seen many sources on the number of Jews at the beginning of the Mandate. I think the low was about 5% and I have seen up to 12% but most are around 7%. I have never seen anything as high as 27%. I say 7% because that seems to be the most common number. The numbers changed rapidly after the first of the century. The increase (along with the threat of taking over the country) is the important part as it put the Palestinians on the defensive.


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## Marc39 (Mar 19, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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But, you can't tell us what makes a Palestiniain, Forum Dunce.

Furthermore, Forum Dunce, virtually no land was owned by Arabs as it was state-owned by the Ottoman Sultanate and the San Remo Resolution transferred sovereignty over Palestine to the Jews after the collapse of the Empire in World war I.

You are the Forum Dunce.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 19, 2010)

Marc39 said:


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The only one being a dunce in this current discussion is Mard39, you say what? Based on some of the other "cut and paste" googled results you post here mar69 without even checking I got to say, BULLSHIT.


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## Marc39 (Mar 19, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> Marc39 said:
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If you ever out-debate me, we'll celebrate over a bottle of Champagne.   It's unlikely, however, given your embarrassing lack of knowledge of the subject matter.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 19, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> mdn2000 said:
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Thanks, as you know I was not in disagreement with your figure, as I stated in my comment my figure comes from the 1800's, without my library behind me I cannot state the exact figure. Unfortunately I travel thus I cannot bring all my sources.


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## Marc39 (Mar 19, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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Figures are meaningless as the Ottomans kept notoriously inaccurate land ownership records, as did the British.

The matter, however, is moot as international treaty transferred sovereignty over Palestine to the Jews after World War I andinternational law established Palestine as the Jewish homeland.

Now, even YOU know.


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## Kalam (Mar 19, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
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Come off it, fool. The only thing that separates you from Marc39 is your unwarranted pretentiousness.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 20, 2010)

Kalam said:


> mdn2000 said:
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Whats wrong Kalem, you dont like me to attack your favorite ally, I can see why, Mouth69's (marc39) bigotry must make Klaem (as in the sound I make clearing flem from my thoat) feel pretty good. As they say in the Child/Raping/Sunni kingdom, "the enemy of my enemy is my freind".

Hey Klaem, how about citing Wikipedia for me, very rich, very wise, the all mighty wikipedia, allah's gift to klaem


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## mdn2000 (Mar 20, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> mdn2000 said:
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Mouth69 (marc39) shows bigotry once again, the bigots eyes see only one thing, my figures do not come from the Ottomans, my figures do not come from the British, my figures do come from the 1800's, as in written in the 1899's, I find its best to use sources close to the times in question, not exclusively but that said sometimes a source closer to the period of time in study is more relevant and less tainted by today's political bias.

Which international treaty, how about a link, you cite a treaty yet no link, which "andinternational law" or did you mean international law, which law by whose authority. Links, sources?

Of course the most obvious error in the bigots wrong headed idea of history is that sovereignty was passed directly to Jews after WW I, fact is a mandate was given to the British. 

Treaty, which treaty.

Bigots will ignore this.


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## Marc39 (Mar 20, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
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> > mdn2000 said:
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Treaty: San Remo Resolution
Law: Palestine Mandate.

Now, even a dolt like you knows.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 21, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
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> > Marc39 said:
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> The matter, however, is moot as international treaty transferred sovereignty over Palestine to the Jews after World War I andinternational law established Palestine as the Jewish homeland.



No, the San Remo Conference gave Britian the Mandate over Palestine.



> Treaty: San Remo Resolution



Extremely moronic post, no treaty came out of the San Remo Conference. The Palestinian Mandate was not international law. 

The San Remo Resolution stated the Mandatory power, being Britian in regards of Palestine would establish a home for Jews in Palestine. The San Remo Resolution did state that Syria and Mespotamia would be recognized as independent states.

Its very clear that the Palestinian Mandate and the San Remo resolution did not establish Israel as a state.

International law coming from the League of Nations, pretty moronic, the USA was not a member of the League of Nations for the simple fact no international law superceded the rights of Americans, the only law recognized by Americans is the Constitution.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 23, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> Marc39 said:
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Nice post MDN2000, dont hold your breath waiting for mouth69 to respond


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## Winston Smith (Mar 23, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> mdn2000 said:
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You are amazing. any data that doesen't support your theory is either meaningless, a lie, an israeli propaganda, or part of the "Hasbara BS line"...i don't expect anything else from you anymore, i just hope the others users here have noticed it!


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## Shogun (Mar 23, 2010)

pwned


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## Marc39 (Mar 23, 2010)

Shogun said:


> pwned



Stoner, only in your drug-induced hallucinations.


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## Shogun (Mar 23, 2010)

no, you've been pwned.  enjoy.


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## Marc39 (Mar 23, 2010)

Shogun said:


> no, you've been pwned.  enjoy.



Powerful crack, eh?


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## Shogun (Mar 23, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> > no, you've been pwned.  enjoy.
> ...



Is that what your last driveway client pointed out about your concrete work, day labor?


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## Marc39 (Mar 23, 2010)

Shogun said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
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No, that's what your drug dealer tells you, stoner.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 24, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Shogun said:
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So its settled, you were wrong on three points.


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## Shogun (Mar 24, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Shogun said:
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you don't know him, I assure you.  He's jewish and hates zionists.  You'd have been curbstomped long ago.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 25, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> mdn2000 said:
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Many sources, great, tell us about those _many sources_, remember wikipedia and google results are not sources.

I would be happy to see you post one source that is not a google or wiki.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 25, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


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Year 	Arabs 	% 	 Jews 	% 	Total

1870, 367,224, 98, 7,000. 2, 375,000
1893, 469,000, 98, 10,000, 2, 497,000
1912, 525,000, 93, 40,000, 6, 565,000
1920, 542,000, 90, 61,000, 10, 603,000
1925, 598,000, 83, 120,000, 17, 719,000
1930, 763,000, 82, 165,000, 18, 928,000
1935, 886,000, 71, 355,000, 29, 1,241,000
1940, 1,014,000, 69,463,000, 31, 1,478,000
1946, 1,237,000, 65, 608,000, 35, 1,845,000

MidEast Web - Population of Palestine

I would be interested in your 27% figure.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 25, 2010)

I took an educated guess based on my research.

I see you googled your information. 

The internet generation learns only what they want to know using google as a source. 

I see there are references on the website so give me a bit of time so I can check and see what I think.

I personally own about a hundred books on Palestine dating back to the 1800's, the ones useful to me are back at the hotel so I will get back to this later.

Thanks though, I love when I get more information and find other sources I can research.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 25, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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I click on you link but I cannot find the table you posted.

Where did you get the table.

I have looked three times.

Further your 7% figure is nowhere to be found.

You googled to try and save face when challenged as far as I can see.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 25, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


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I never claimed that 7% was the definitive number. This is not a wedding party. No one will have to stand if the numbers are not correct. In this conflict it matters not if the number was 5% or 7% or 10%, it is the rapid increase that was the root of the problem. I don't think anyone has an accurate number. I gave a range of numbers that I have seen and I posted this table because it is typical, and within my stated range, not to prove my 7% to be correct.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 25, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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The numbers do matter a bit, not as a deciding factor but simply to get the story straight. Scholars who use unsubstantiated low figures are simply not interested in the truth.

In 1944 Walter Clay Lowdermile wrote in "Palestine, Land of Promise" stated the population of Palestine was 1,500,000.  

Give or take this figure is confirmed by the website you linked to.

What the website does not state is that this was the population of Israel and Jordan or as it was known than Trans-Jordan. 

Jordan is Palestine hence the population figures include Jordan, your link does not make this distinction hence I must call into the links credibility. Of course there is a very critical critic of the population figures given in your link on the site itself, fine print at the bottom of the site.

Population is very important because it directly relates to immigration as well. Just off the top of my head from around the mid 1930's to 1944 Arab population rose by 400,000. Why is that, how did the Arab population rise. 

These are things that Truman knew, these figures and facts are what most leaders of the free world knew. Advisers to world leaders were experts on Palestine and educated the leaders so that they could make the correct decisions.

 A rapid increase in Jewish population was accompanied by a rapid increase in Arab population.

Arab population increase is a direct cause of the opportunity created by world interest in the Jews. 

I think that is enough for you to digest at this time. If you really want to know what happened in Palestine its time to pick up books or just take my word for it.

A few members of the USMB should humble themselves and learn from my posts as well. I won't call them out by name, I have hounded them enough, at least it seems I have. 

The truth is not a google search result.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 25, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


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> These are things that Truman knew, these figures and facts are what most leaders of the free world knew. Advisers to world leaders were experts on Palestine and educated the leaders so that they could make the correct decisions.



Either they were ill-advised or they did not head that advice. Look at the mess we are in.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 25, 2010)

The "mess" we are in is a result of appeasing Saudi Arabia, nothing more.

Money is a powerful force.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 25, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> The "mess" we are in is a result of appeasing Saudi Arabia, nothing more.
> 
> Money is a powerful force.



Saudi Arabia???


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## Kalam (Mar 25, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> In the 1800's I have seen the figure of around 27% Jewish





Herzl didn't write _Judenstaat_ until 1896.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 25, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
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> ...



Do more than a google search and much of what we assume of Israel based on the media falls like a house of cards.

One of the most informative books I own is, "The Other Arab-Israeli Conflict, Making America's Middle East Policy from Truman to Reagan" by Steven Spiegel. 

Very detailed, excellent book, I need to find more books about the specific policy of our government. After reading the book one can relate to bits and pieces in the news as well from other sources. 

I am a bit disingenuous in implying it is solely the appeasement of the Sunnis that is the source of the problem but it sometimes helps to rile folks.

Appeasement is the problem, politicians are easily influenced by Oil, Saudi Arabia as we all know is a huge source of oil with many corporations developing the oil reserves, the money involved in oil controls our foreign policy. Saudi Arabia states Kosovo must be Moslem hence Clinton makes Kosovo Moslem, Saudi Arabia is demanding the partition of Israel hence that is our policy.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 25, 2010)

Kalam said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
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> > In the 1800's I have seen the figure of around 27% Jewish
> ...



So what, again Kalam until you start reading the _biased western coloring books by tourists_ you will not be able to join in a discussion.

Further if you have been reading my posts you will see that I am not pro-Zionist. The Zionists would have the whole world believe that Zionist built Israel and that is far from the truth. 

You should try reading Abba Eban's book, talk about self-righteousness, Mr. Eban would have us believe Israel was created through nothing more then the clever legal arguments of the Zionist. 

Kalam, your post is useful to show how some can only see Zionist, Zionism followed the work of others that began laying the foundation for the rise of Israel, the hard work was began by others, Zionist followed, they did not lead.

I have yet to get around to buying Judenstaat, thanks for reminding me.


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## Kalam (Mar 25, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> So what,


The dissemination of Herzl's ideas led to the rise of Zionism as a political ideology. The Jewish population of Palestine would have been relatively insignificant before they began immigrating in droves.



mdn2000 said:


> again Kalam until you start reading the _biased western coloring books by tourists_ you will not be able to join in a discussion.


Sorry, Skeeter; I'll join a discussion whenever I damn well please. 

I've read Guillaume, Arberry, Lewis, etc. I haven't found anything of much significance that hasn't already been covered in Islamic texts.



mdn2000 said:


> Further if you have been reading my posts you will see that I am not pro-Zionist. The Zionists would have the whole world believe that Zionist built Israel and that is far from the truth.


I don't particularly care if you consider yourself "pro-Zionist"; you defend Israeli oppression. The specific circumstances surrounding the creation of the aggressor-state also aren't of great concern to me. I want see it disappear regardless of who played the largest role in bringing its existence about. 



mdn2000 said:


> You should try reading Abba Eban's book, talk about self-righteousness, Mr. Eban would have us believe Israel was created through nothing more then the clever legal arguments of the Zionist.


I don't doubt it.



mdn2000 said:


> Kalam, your post is useful to show how some can only see Zionist, Zionism followed the work of others that began laying the foundation for the rise of Israel, the hard work was began by others, Zionist followed, they did not lead.


Hitler did his part in the creation of the Jewish state. In addition to his obvious offenses, the bastard's actions have ensured that Western minds are suffused with collective Holocaust guilt to this day. Well over half of the people with whom I've discussed the issue have mentioned the Holocaust as if the Jews' tragedy in Europe justified the nakba in Palestine.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 26, 2010)

Kalam, you stated specifically you did not read _biased western coloring books_, if Kalam wishes to admit he is wrong in regards to his statement I have quoted then we might get somewhere but as of now that is not the case.

I cannot have a discussion about Israel with one who is uneducated.

I cannot debate with a bigot.

All I can do is post the facts as they are, I don't expect to educate bigots but that said I won't let the Bigots dictate a Bigoted view of history.

Kalam cannot get off Zionism, I have never said Zionism did not become a political movement yet Kalam responds as if I stated this, I have not, to me this is how a Bigot responds, not an intellect who is educated on the subject.

On immigration, the entire population of Palestine would of been small if it were not for immigration. The truth be know since the great exile of Jews from Palestine the population of Arabs in Palestine also declined. 

The population in Palestine began to rise in the 1800's so one must look for answers in the 1800's. 

What happened in this period, what happened prior to 1944, simple answer:

*The Arabs prospered where they lived close to Jews*

Conditions were so poor in the Arab lands of the Arabian Pennisula, of Egypt, of Syria, the Ancient Persian empire, Mesopotamia, etc, etc, Arabs had little choice but to seek a better life living next to Jews.



> I don't particularly care if you consider yourself "pro-Zionist"; you defend Israeli oppression



I do not defend oppression, you must of missed my very pointed attack of Marc39 who I call Mouth69, I have been biting my tongue writing my reply, I have not been calling you a bigot as much as I wanted, but as I contemplate and write in regards to the above quote it is obvious you are bigoted.

I have attacked Mouth69, I have stated facts about Jews who oppress others, if you see only through a bigots eyes than you cannot see me for who I am, you only see as a bigot sees thus all you see is tainted and distorted.



> I haven't found anything of much significance that hasn't already been covered in Islamic texts.



Again a Bigot only sees _biased western coloring books_, nothing of significance outside of Islamic texts (there are very few Islamic texts when compared to western works, maybe a 100,000 to 1 ratio).



> Western minds are suffused with collective Holocaust guilt to this day



Bigotry again, never wavering, always the same, this is not a discussion, its a biggest rant set off by some facts that stand in the face of Kalam's bigotry.

Its too bad for Kalam.

Human nature, it was not that Hitler hated jews as much as its a part of human nature to be a bigot, to be racist. Typically its the un-educated, its the bastards as in those without fathers or good families. People grow up ignorant or are influenced into being bigots.

The Nazis are gone but the character of human nature that leads one to be a bigot is more prevalent in some than others. Lack of education is definitely part of what led Kalam to be a bigot, Kalam himself freely admitted he does not read _biased western coloring books_. The KKK has largely disappeared but it was human nature that led to the KKK and Nazis as well the murderous Sunni Moslems, its not the movement that begets oppression its the human tendency to become a bigot given the right set of circumstances in ones life that manifests as Bigotry and than creates or finds the movement. 

Kalam is not here to join a discussion, Kalam cannot for Kalam is a bigot.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 26, 2010)

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What do you believe are some of the common misperceptions that would not hold up to scrutiny?

I don't find this to be a complicated issue. Now there has been a lot of smoke blown on this issue designed to confuse the people and promote an agenda...ah...propaganda if you will. You can read smoke 'til the cows come home but it does not change the few basic facts that make up this issue.


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## Marc39 (Mar 26, 2010)

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You're really not one to talk given your complete ignorance of Middle East affairs.


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## Marc39 (Mar 26, 2010)

Kalam said:


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Jews, and Christians, populated Palestine well before Arabs and Muslims invaded from the Arabian Peninsula.



> I don't particularly care if you consider yourself "pro-Zionist"; you defend Israeli oppression. The specific circumstances surrounding the creation of the aggressor-state also aren't of great concern to me. I want see it disappear regardless of who played the largest role in bringing its existence about.



There is no Zionist oppression.  Israel is the most free country in the Arab Muslim Middle East dominated by fascist, oppressive Islamic shitholes. 

Palestine is the ancestral Jewish homeland.   Camel herders go home to Mecca and Medina, where you belong.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 26, 2010)

The biggest misconception is that the Arabs political leaders and the political movement in Palestine originated as a grass roots organization within Palestine to free Arabs from Jewish oppression.

Another whopper is that the Arabs had to flee from the Jews in 1947 when the war for independence began.

Maybe the biggest misconception is that Jews and Arabs cannot live together in peace.

Another is that Jews mistreat Arabs, history shows Arabs benefited living in close proximity to Jews.

Biggest misconception is how the Nation of Israel was reborn, when, how, and by whom.


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## Marc39 (Mar 26, 2010)

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Martin Luther King, Jr. was an avowed Zionist...


> I see Israel as one of the great outposts of democracy in the world, and a marvelous example of what can be done, how desert land can be transformed into an oasis of brotherhood and democracy. Peace for Israel means security and that security must be a reality.



Go back to sleep, stoner.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 26, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> The biggest misconception is that the Arabs political leaders and the political movement in Palestine originated as a grass roots organization within Palestine to free Arabs from Jewish oppression.



I am not sure what you mean by this or what is the relevance.



> Another whopper is that the Arabs had to flee from the Jews in 1947 when the war for independence began.



I believe that is a well documented fact.



> Maybe the biggest misconception is that Jews and Arabs cannot live together in peace.



I don't believe that. I believe in the "one state" solution. I believe that this is propagated by the Israeli side to justify actions against the Palestinians. About 30% of Palestinians believe in the one state solution which is high considering that no public officials mention this option. Well, there has been some mention popping up lately. Hamas has stated the desire for one state with equal rights for all but Fatah is still in the two state camp.



> Another is that Jews mistreat Arabs, history shows Arabs benefited living in close proximity to Jews.



This varies from time to place. It is true that the Jews brought new money and ideas to Palestine, however this prosperity was kept away from the Palestinians as much as possible. Land ownership policies were that any land transferred to Jews would never be transferred back to Palestinians. The ratchet effect of this policy would eventually lead the Palestinians to own nothing. Another policy is that employment for Palestinians was limited to low pay manual labor.



> Biggest misconception is how the Nation of Israel was reborn, when, how, and by whom.



I think this is irrelevant. This is merely to justify the illegal acts against the Palestinians.


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## Marc39 (Mar 26, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> I believe that is a well documented fact.



When will you become familiar with the facts?



> I don't believe that. I believe in the "one state" solution. I believe that this is propagated by the Israeli side to justify actions against the Palestinians.



You can't even tell us who so-called Palestinians are.  Israel's actions constitute self-defense against Muslim barbarians, which is entirely within the law of armed conflict and the UN Charter. 



> About 30% of Palestinians believe in the one state solution which is high considering that no public officials mention this option. Well, there has been some mention popping up lately. Hamas has stated the desire for one state with equal rights for all but Fatah is still in the two state camp.



Israel is a sovereign state.   There will never be a one-state solution that permits more Arab savages to overrun Israel.   



> This varies from time to place. It is true that the Jews brought new money and ideas to Palestine, however this prosperity was kept away from the Palestinians as much as possible. Land ownership policies were that any land transferred to Jews would never be transferred back to Palestinians. The ratchet effect of this policy would eventually lead the Palestinians to own nothing. Another policy is that employment for Palestinians was limited to low pay manual labor.



Wrong, dopey.  Don't pretend to be aware of the subject matter.

Palestine Royal Commission...


> The Arab population shows a remarkable increase since 1920, and it has had some share in the increased prosperity of Palestine. Many Arab landowners have benefited from the sale of land [to Jews] and the profitable investment of the purchase money. The fellaheen are better off on the whole than they were in 1920. This Arab progress has been partly due to the import of Jewish capital into Palestine and other factors associated with the growth of the National [Jewish] Home. In particular, the Arabs have benefited from social services which could not have been provided on the existing scale without the revenue obtained from the Jews.


 
Now, even you know, moron.

You are the Forum Dunce.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 26, 2010)

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When are you going to contribute anything intelligent to the debate?


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## Marc39 (Mar 26, 2010)

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I just did, Forum Dunce.  Sucks having me correct you each time, eh?

You are the Forum Dunce.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 26, 2010)

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What did you "correct?"


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## Marc39 (Mar 26, 2010)

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Your brain is fried and you're mentally disabled, but, others undoubtedly see the correction.
You are the Forum Dunce.


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## Shogun (Mar 26, 2010)

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he was also an adulterer.  so much for deification, eh jew?


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## Shogun (Mar 26, 2010)

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yea... his reputation around here is pretty soiled.  Obviously, it takes a jew or end of days christian to put any water in his bucket. 


or, should I say concrete in his wheel barrow.


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## Marc39 (Mar 26, 2010)

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Around here, stoner?  This forum is a toilet bowl.  And, you are a shit-for-brains who has yet to factually refute me.

Go back to sleep, stoner.


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## Shogun (Mar 26, 2010)

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you should probably address the challenges you have out already before throwing down another lacy gauntlet, jew.  We've already seen you PWNED today over your similar remarks.  Alas, if you think anyone sees you as an intellect worth considering then you really ARE a dumb fucking jew.


ps, if you don't like it around here feel free to go post at www.concreteisfun.com.


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## Marc39 (Mar 26, 2010)

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You're as dumb as a wall, stoner.  Go back to sleep.  You have no friends.


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## Shogun (Mar 26, 2010)

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FUNNY that you mention WALLS, brick layer...




oh MAN you don't even realize how stupid you are!


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## Marc39 (Mar 26, 2010)

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Yet, you are unable to successfully debate me, stoner.  Doesn't say much for you, eh?
Do yourself a favor and go back to sleep.


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## Shogun (Mar 26, 2010)

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maybe "go to sleep" is a winning argument over at Jew U. but...


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## Marc39 (Mar 26, 2010)

Shogun said:


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Yet, you are unable to successfully debate me, stoner.
Do yourself a favor and go back into your coma.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 26, 2010)

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Well, we are adversaries or of different opinon yet we also see eye to eye at least in regards to this bigoted Jew who don't know his ass from Mary's well (hole in the ground).


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## mdn2000 (Mar 26, 2010)

> The biggest misconception is that the Arabs political leaders and the political movement in Palestine originated as a grass roots organization within Palestine to free Arabs from Jewish oppression.



The PLO as near as I can tell began in Egypt under Nasser, off the top of my head early 60's, Pan-Arab-ism was Nasser's idea, maybe not the first to originate this idea but Nasser definitely was a war-monger. Yasser Arafat  was born in Cairo, not Palestine, hence the movement began outside of Israel/Palestine.  From Egypt the PLO is next found in Jordan, short story the PLO went to war with Jordan, exiled from Jordan Arafat is next found......... eventually in Palestine. 

Arafat was Egyptian, simply fighting for power, not for the people, the people were pawns used by men who seek easy power through murder and war.



> Another whopper is that the Arabs had to flee from the Jews in 1947 when the war for independence began.



You might of misinterpreted my point I attempted to make. I do understand that the Arabs fled their homes out of fear and definitely in some cases that fear was justified. Many Arabs stayed and did not flee, these Arabs were protected by the Jews. More specifically Moshe Dayan speaks of this in his book, "Moshe Dayan, Story of my life" (if I quote a book, I own it and its in my hand). 

From pg 82, shortly after the War of Independence begins.



> A few days after this battle, Giora Zeid renewed his contact with the Druze and informed me that he thought it might be possible to neutralize them. A rendezvous was arranged for us with several officers of the Druze battalion at Tivon, in Lower Galilee. When I was presented to them as one whose brother had been killed in the Ramat Youhanna action, they went pale. They suspected a trap, thtat the meeting had been a stratagem to avenge the blood of Zorik. They were Arabs, and the blood feud was part of their custom and tradition. They assumed it was part of mine too. But  I was a Jew and followed Jewish custom and tradition, in which the blood feud has no place.  Moreover, Zorik's death was my private grief, and I kept it strictly apart from the purpose in which I was engaged. I had come on a political and military mission, to turn an enemy into a neutral or a friend. The Druze officers were soon reassured. At the end of our negotiations, they agreed tot take no further part in the war. Some even came over to our side and fought with us.



This is not the particular passage I hoped to find, I realize I need to take notes which I have just begun, a huge task given the books I have. So what is the point, A Jewish commander which buried any thoughts of revenge against Arabs who killed his younger brother in combat in order to secure peace. Not the actions of a man who supposedly drove out the Arab families. The book has much more than just this one incident that speaks of the character of Moshe Dayan. 

This is also an example of the poor education we receive in the USA in regards to Israel, this is great example of the Media's bias. Here Moshe Dayan tells us Arabs fought with the Jews. Arabs fought on the side of the Jews, got it, Arabs fought on the side of Jews. 



> Maybe the biggest misconception is that Jews and Arabs cannot live together in peace.



Quoting Moshe Dayan speaks volumes in respect to my statement, this is just one example of many examples Moshe Dayan gives. This from a distinguished military commander of the Jewish army. Moshe Dayan lived side by side with Arabs, Arabs who are personal friends of his.

I have other books as well, many other books, many other examples.

Before I move on Moshe Dayan was born in Palestine.

How about something from Walter Clay Lowdermilk (great name) written in 1944, not tainted by today's bias and politics. 



> Palestine, Land of Promise



pg. 157



> An interesting sidelight on the beneficial effect of jewish colonization on the Arab popultation is the extraordiary rate of increase of the arab community. ......
> 
> Arab infant mortality is rapidly declining in all of Palestine but it is lowest in the localities closest to Jewish settlements, whether urban or rural. The reduction in th the death rate is due inpart to the health work of the Palestine government but must be attributed mainly to the adctivities of the Jewish health agencies, among which Hadassah, the American Women's Zionist Organization, has played the outstanding part. Hadassah began its medical work during the
> First World War and ever since then has maintained a large network of clinics and hospitals. Its preventive medical work has been largely responsible for the elimination of Trachoma, and contributed in great measure to the effective control of malaria........   While we were in Jerusalem, the magnificent structure of the Rothschild-Hadassah-University Hospital was opened on Mount Scopus. It is the most modern and best-staffed hospital in the Near East and attract patients from all the countries around Palestine.



Again but one book of many



> Biggest misconception is how the Nation of Israel was reborn, when, how, and by whom.



My favorite topic or rant by far, I love this point. Let me take a break though, I have literally spent two hours on my simple response, much spent in Moshe Dayan's book, what a great book, Moshe Dayan's story literally brings tears to my eyes, especially when he talks of the lost of his brother and his friendship with Arabs. So I got caught up reading. I type well but have a tendency to misspell and spent a bit of time correcting my post so as not to be an easy target for the spell-checkers.

So that said and given what I post, does anyone doubt that I will not use Google or Wikipedia, that I am prepared to back up every statement I make with quotes from men that lived during the times we wish to understand, can anyone doubt that I have many sources at my finger tips. That if I state I can reference 75-100 books on the Middle East I do not speak of visiting a library, that these books are physically in my possession.  That said I will get back to any point I have made and to anyone who wishes to question me.

Hey Marc39 (notice I have addressed you as you wish in a gesture of friendship) I am going to do you a great favor, get a copy of "The Revolt, Story of the Irgun" by Menachem Begin, I do not suggest this to educate you or change your opinion nor style of posting, I suggest this simply as a gesture and because I know you will love this factual account of a time in Israel's history

I dedicate all I write and all I post in regards to Palestine to Dov Gruner.


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## Marc39 (Mar 26, 2010)

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Your husband, chat room flunkie?


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## del (Mar 26, 2010)

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isn't he dreamy? 

i know you've only met him in a professional situation, but he's a great guy to hang out with.

you should use some lotion on your ankle where the bracelet is chafing you, pedo.


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## Marc39 (Mar 26, 2010)

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I'm heterosexual, chat room flunkie.  Keep your sexual fantasies to yourself, or, post on a gay forum.


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## del (Mar 26, 2010)

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no surprise there; most pedophiles are.


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## Marc39 (Mar 26, 2010)

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I wouldn't know, not being one.   Too bad your knowledge of the Middle East is not on a par with your insights into homosexuality and pedophilia.  You might then have a snowball's chance in hell of being equipped to debate me, chat room flunkie.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 26, 2010)

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Oh, Mouth69 thinks a resolution is a treat creating Israel and that the Palestine Mandate is international law. So Mouth69 (marc39) goes around calling people the forum dunce, anyone else laughing at the forum dunce pointing fingers?


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## Marc39 (Mar 26, 2010)

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I've already instructed you on the matter.   Forgetful or just mentally impaired?  The San Remo Res. constitutes a binding international treaty among the World War I Allies--Great Britain, France, Italy and Japan that, transferred sovereignty over Palestine to the Jews for the establishment of the Jewish National Home called for by Lord Balfour.  The Resolution gave legal effect to the Balfour Declaration.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 26, 2010)

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Forum Dunce39, your like a greased pig running around the threads, so hard to catch, Forum Dunce39 digs himself deeper.

There is a big difference between treaties and resolutions. 

The San Remo resolution, seems like that had to do with the League of Nations, the USA was not a part of the League of Nations and thus not a part of the San Remo resolution. 

So many contradictions in one post, international binding as if four countries dictate to the rest of the world. Italy went through how many governments since this time, Japan's government did not last beyond the end of WW II, that leaves England and France as binding international sovereign binders of national what the fucks?

Forum Dunce39, mentored by Homer Simpson, dolt!!!!

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-middle-east-general/110223-izrealis-snipers-execute-4-young-palestinians-6.html#post2144356

Instead of trying to chase the greased pig Forum Dunce39 follow my link to where I caught the slippery dolt.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 26, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> > The biggest misconception is that the Arabs political leaders and the political movement in Palestine originated as a grass roots organization within Palestine to free Arabs from Jewish oppression.
> 
> 
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I think to say that Arafat was Egyptian because he was born in Egypt is misleading. He was born in Egypt to Palestinian parents His father happened to be working in Cairo at the time. His older siblings were born in Palestine. Arafat moved back to Palestine when he was four years old. This is another one of those smoke issues.



> Another whopper is that the Arabs had to flee from the Jews in 1947 when the war for independence began.



People don't just leave their homes for no reason. The little town of Najd comes to mind. It is so typical.



> You might of misinterpreted my point I attempted to make. I do understand that the Arabs fled their homes out of fear and definitely in some cases that fear was justified. Many Arabs stayed and did not flee, these Arabs were protected by the Jews. More specifically Moshe Dayan speaks of this in his book, "Moshe Dayan, Story of my life" (if I quote a book, I own it and its in my hand).
> 
> (edited for brevity)



What difference, if any, did this have on the overall conflict?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 27, 2010)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd2fdoJxCcw]YouTube - A Palestian talks about the Nakba -1/4[/ame]


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## Marc39 (Mar 27, 2010)

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Arafat's parents lived in Egypt and, thus, were Egyptian, Forum Dunce.  There is no country of Palestine and, thus, there are no Palestinians.  

You are the Forum Dunce.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 27, 2010)

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From the flat tire of debate.


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## Marc39 (Mar 27, 2010)

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You lose, again.  Give up.  You'll never win.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 28, 2010)

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Flop...flop flop...flop flop.... flop....


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