# "This Dog, "Teddy" is a felon"



## Beachboy

After weeks of looking for the right dog, Golden Retriever Rescue sent us to meet "Teddy," and the opening words of his keeper were "this dog is a felon."  So, of course my wife had to have him without even knowing what those words meant.  

At 3 1/2 years Teddy has run away from home, and been brought back to his owner 13 times!!!  Apparently, the kill shelter raises the price every time a dog is recovered, and Teddy had run out of luck.  Fortunately, a couple with three acres adopted Teddy, unfortunately Teddy was the second Golden in the house, and the nine year old and was very territorial.  Teddy got the boot after two weeks.  

But, these were Golden lovers, and would not take Teddy back to the kill kennel.  So, they took Teddy to the Vet and gave him a gift, a $300 laboratory work up, and called Golden Retriever Rescue. (Apparently, every breed has its own rescue).   Other than a minor thyroid problem Teddy was in great physical shape, (ok, a little chunky, but Petco and the vet are working on this).





​ 
Since we had passed the interview by Golden Retriever Rescue we were to meet Teddy, AND take him home.  We were his last chance.  My wife, caregiver to the developmentally disabled, turned Movie Studio Ramrod, analyzed Teddy on the the way to see him.  "An older pup is much like a teenager they do not run away from home without a reason, probably arguing adults.   I say give Teddy the benefit of the doubt"

Teddy went crazy for my wife, Laura.  The dog is an absolute gentleman.  He only poops outside, and lets us know when it is time.  We bought him a used/shampooed sofa of his own for the family room.  Whomever puts out his food, will get a "thank you" visit later.  By the third day, Teddy was left alone in the house for an hour, and did not touch a thing.  By the fourth night Teddy had climbed up on our bed, and was sleeping at our feet.  We are told Teddy has the intelligence of a seven year old child.

Laura has us treating Teddy for depression, and it seems to be working.  Like all dogs, Teddy picks the most inconvenient place to sprawl.  My wife told me not to ask him to move because it shows respect which she can turn into trust and self-confidence.

Today is day six.  If Teddy runs, his microchip will bring him back.  My wife asked me how I feel about Teddy, my response was simple, and very me.  "Anyone hurts our dog, and they are dead."


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## Luddly Neddite

Sounds like he's guilty of felony heart theft. 

He's lucky to have found you.


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## Mr. H.

Cool.


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## Beachboy

Luddly Neddite said:


> Sounds like he's guilty of felony heart theft.
> 
> He's lucky to have found you.



Today is day 10 with Teddy.  We took him to the groomer Tuesday, and he is awfully handsome!  

He seems to feel better too.As my wife and I do not plan to have children, Teddy has already filled our hearts

Teddy is a lot smarter than I ever expected.  He has already figured out how to use the power windows in my Jeep!  Last night he picked his vitamin out of his dinner and set it on the floor!  Somehow I wonder if he knew we would give it back to him wrapped in Velvetta like he gets his Thyroid medicine!  Teddy is exactly right for our quiet household.


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## Beachboy

*We are seeking dog advice.*

Today on day 10 of Teddy he acted up.  My wife was walking him, he heard another dog behind a fence, and started barking.  I was following behind in the Jeep with flashers on.  Teddy would not move, so I got out, and he refused to move for me.  He was wearing a pronged collar, and still pulled back.  We are talking 103 pounds of young adult dog muscle.

Teddy is always willing to jump into the Jeep, and did so today.  This was the first time the words "Bad Teddy" were spoken.  We locked him out on the enclosed deck, (big punishment, it is his favorite place).  After an hour we let him into the house, but we are giving him the cold shoulder now.  We have decided he will not be allowed in either of our beds tonight.

Teddy's _Adult Level 1_ training begins at Petco in Mid-April.  We have met the trainer Sarah who says Teddy needs "sensitivity training" from being abused.  We feel we should avoid serious punishment until the professional trainer gets a hold of him.

*Anyone have any thoughts?*  Tough treatment of a dog who has been abused makes no sense to us.  My wife just locked Teddy out of her office area.  Now Teddy is sitting beside me crying, but I am not giving him any attention.

*Perfect Google picture, exactly the treatment I am getting right now.

**



*

Damn, I feel like my father!​


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## Beachboy

Well Sarah at Petco has set an appointment to do some private   sensitivity training next Friday.  It ain't cheap.  It usually runs $79   an hour, but Teddy gets a special deal because we have purchased all  our  dog things from them.  All the managers and groomers know Teddy,  and  are big supporters of dog rescue groups, so special deal $39 an  hour.  

Teddy will be confined to his 70'X50' back yard with six foot brick   block fences.  Teddy has a dog behind him, (Boxer), and a dog next door,   (Chow) to bark at.  

When Teddy sees a bird he chases it out of the yard.  What should I expect after 200 years of Retriever breeding?


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## Mojo2

Hell, I was looking forward to the next installment and then...nothing.

Oh well, you've got at least one reader hanging on the edge of his seat to hear what's up with Teddy!

Good on ya. All three of ya!


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## Beachboy

Mojo2 said:


> Hell, I was looking forward to the next installment and then...nothing.
> 
> Oh well, you've got at least one reader hanging on the edge of his seat to hear what's up with Teddy!
> 
> Good on ya. All three of ya!



Love to post about Teddy.  We are really kind of on hold until next  Friday when he gets his session with the Petco trainer/sensitivity  expert.  *Twice* when out for walks, Teddy heard dogs, stopped in  his tracks and would not move ~ FROZEN ON THE SPOT.  I was afraid to  pull too hard on his pronged collar.  Fortunately, my wife was following  behind in the Jeep, and Teddy jumped in.






Teddy's neck hair is so thick it does not 
hurt him, unless we get into tug-o-war.​ 
No more walks until after that.  We have cleared the back yard,  installed gates from the deck, replaced oriental rugs with cheap carpet  remnants and leave the back door open so he can come and go as he  chooses.  The house is now one giant kennel.  Praise god for Prego  floors!  Right now it is swiffer and vacuum every day.  I do it because I  want my wife to bond more strongly to Teddy.  I believe a quiet house  with accommodating adults is the key.  We are informed that Teddy may  prefer men to women, so we are making a big effort for my wife ~  petting, dog treats, and toys!  I now give nothing but play and petting.


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## Coyote

Prong collars work really well with strong dogs - they look worse than they really are.  He sounds like a gem BB 

Have your wife be the feeder-of-meals and he will bond with her, Golden's are great dogs!


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## strollingbones

Beachboy said:


> Mojo2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hell, I was looking forward to the next installment and then...nothing.
> 
> Oh well, you've got at least one reader hanging on the edge of his seat to hear what's up with Teddy!
> 
> Good on ya. All three of ya!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Love to post about Teddy.  We are really kind of on hold until next  Friday when he gets his session with the Petco trainer/sensitivity  expert.  *Twice* when out for walks, Teddy heard dogs, stopped in  his tracks and would not move ~ FROZEN ON THE SPOT.  I was afraid to  pull too hard on his pronged collar.  Fortunately, my wife was following  behind in the Jeep, and Teddy jumped in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Teddy's neck hair is so thick it does not
> hurt him, unless we get into tug-o-war.​
> No more walks until after that.  We have cleared the back yard,  installed gates from the deck, replaced oriental rugs with cheap carpet  remnants and leave the back door open so he can come and go as he  chooses.  The house is now one giant kennel.  Praise god for Prego  floors!  Right now it is swiffer and vacuum every day.  I do it because I  want my wife to bond more strongly to Teddy.  I believe a quiet house  with accommodating adults is the key.  We are informed that Teddy may  prefer men to women, so we are making a big effort for my wife ~  petting, dog treats, and toys!  I now give nothing but play and petting.
Click to expand...



you dont have to use that harsh a collar.....he is a golden....given love he will give so much love in return ....you just dont know how lucky you are right now...you will come to know the love of a golden it is like no other dog love..and i am a doberman person


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## Coyote

Beachboy said:


> *We are seeking dog advice.*
> 
> Today on day 10 of Teddy he acted up.  My wife was walking him, he heard another dog behind a fence, and started barking.  I was following behind in the Jeep with flashers on.  Teddy would not move, so I got out, and he refused to move for me.  He was wearing a pronged collar, and still pulled back.  We are talking 103 pounds of young adult dog muscle.
> 
> Teddy is always willing to jump into the Jeep, and did so today.  This was the first time the words "Bad Teddy" were spoken.  We locked him out on the enclosed deck, (big punishment, it is his favorite place).  After an hour we let him into the house, but we are giving him the cold shoulder now.  We have decided he will not be allowed in either of our beds tonight.
> 
> Teddy's _Adult Level 1_ training begins at Petco in Mid-April.  We have met the trainer Sarah who says Teddy needs "sensitivity training" from being abused.  We feel we should avoid serious punishment until the professional trainer gets a hold of him.
> 
> *Anyone have any thoughts?*  Tough treatment of a dog who has been abused makes no sense to us.  My wife just locked Teddy out of her office area.  Now Teddy is sitting beside me crying, but I am not giving him any attention.
> 
> *Perfect Google picture, exactly the treatment I am getting right now.
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Damn, I feel like my father!​




BB, Teddi won't understand the "cold shoulder" treatment for this behavior - he won't associate it with the event.  Generally - time out types of "punishment" work really well for dogs that are over-the-top (puppies mostly) and so you remove the reward (interacting with you) for a little while until they settle.

Teddi's, hearing a dog bark might be curious, or fearful - depending on his history, but the best thing is, keep moving.  A mild tug on the collar isn't "punishment" - especially when coupled with a cheerful "come on Teddi, let's go" and walk on.  You might also carry some treats with you, and reward him when he moves on.

The only caveat I can think of is this - is his reaction to the dog barking fearful?  Does he plant his feet and try to back out and get away?  If so - you might want to walk him on the opposite side of the streat


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## Coyote

strollingbones said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mojo2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hell, I was looking forward to the next installment and then...nothing.
> 
> Oh well, you've got at least one reader hanging on the edge of his seat to hear what's up with Teddy!
> 
> Good on ya. All three of ya!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Love to post about Teddy.  We are really kind of on hold until next  Friday when he gets his session with the Petco trainer/sensitivity  expert.  *Twice* when out for walks, Teddy heard dogs, stopped in  his tracks and would not move ~ FROZEN ON THE SPOT.  I was afraid to  pull too hard on his pronged collar.  Fortunately, my wife was following  behind in the Jeep, and Teddy jumped in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Teddy's neck hair is so thick it does not
> hurt him, unless we get into tug-o-war.​
> No more walks until after that.  We have cleared the back yard,  installed gates from the deck, replaced oriental rugs with cheap carpet  remnants and leave the back door open so he can come and go as he  chooses.  The house is now one giant kennel.  Praise god for Prego  floors!  Right now it is swiffer and vacuum every day.  I do it because I  want my wife to bond more strongly to Teddy.  I believe a quiet house  with accommodating adults is the key.  We are informed that Teddy may  prefer men to women, so we are making a big effort for my wife ~  petting, dog treats, and toys!  I now give nothing but play and petting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> you dont have to use that harsh a collar.....he is a golden....given love he will give so much love in return ....you just dont know how lucky you are right now...you will come to know the love of a golden it is like no other dog love..and i am a doberman person
Click to expand...


I know the collars are controversial but - when you have a 103 lb dog, it can be hard for a small person to control - especially if it's a giant love bug at the end of the leash


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## Beachboy

Coyote said:


> Prong collars work really well with strong dogs - they look worse than they really are.  He sounds like a gem BB
> 
> Have your wife be the feeder-of-meals and he will bond with her, Golden's are great dogs!



Teddy has taken over the household, and our lives have changed incredibly.

I was shopping at Ralph's, (Kroger), and found a St. Patrick's hat on close-out with no price.  We have known the manager for years.  I asked him if he was "dealing" today, I'd give him a buck for the hat.  He said with one condition that I wear it out of the store!  And, I did.  






Teddy got all excited when he saw it.  Guess what I am wearing at the computer right now?  Can you guess who is watching me?​


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## Beachboy

strollingbones said:


> you dont have to use that harsh a collar.....he is a golden....given love he will give so much love in return ....you just dont know how lucky you are right now...you will come to know the love of a golden it is like no other dog love..and i am a doberman person



Trust me, we know how lucky we are to have Teddy.  We also know that his 13 runaways could have led to the kill kennel if the woman who took him out of the shelter had not taken him home for two weeks and found us.




​ 
The line between life and death is very thin for all of us.  The biggest thing Teddy has given me is that my life has gone from future planning into enjoying the moment.  I was lost, and now I am found.

I have already offered myself as a volunteer to Golden Retriever Rescue.  I may be asked to contribute my skills in advertising to the cause of rescuing animals.  Less time on USMB.  I hope this balances the feeling I get from shoving sugar snacks down the throats of children, and diabetics.


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## Beachboy

Coyote said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> BB, Teddi won't understand the "cold shoulder" treatment for this behavior - he won't associate it with the event.  Generally - time out types of "punishment" work really well for dogs that are over-the-top (puppies mostly) and so you remove the reward (interacting with you) for a little while until they settle.
> 
> Teddi's, hearing a dog bark might be curious, or fearful - depending on his history, but the best thing is, keep moving.  A mild tug on the collar isn't "punishment" - especially when coupled with a cheerful "come on Teddi, let's go" and walk on.  You might also carry some treats with you, and reward him when he moves on.
> 
> The only caveat I can think of is this - is his reaction to the dog barking fearful?  Does he plant his feet and try to back out and get away?  If so - you might want to walk him on the opposite side of the streat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Today is day 15 with Teddy, and you are correct.  Teddy is changing fast.  I saw him surprised by a small dog on a walk.  The next day he barked (commandingly) right back.  Our main concern remains Teddy "freezing" on the street.   My wife was walking him in two instances past dogs barking behind high fences.  Teddy refused to move for either of us.  Fortunately, I was following in the Jeep, and he was willing to jump in.
> 
> Teddy can live well in his large privately fenced back yard until Friday.  Then Sarah at Petco is seeing Teddy for a private sensitivity session.  She has met Teddy twice and is confident his anxiety can be resolved before we take Teddy into Adult I training with Sarah.
> 
> As to cost, we have received an extremely well trained house broken dog that has been abused.  By the third day we were leaving Teddy alone in the house.  Absolutely, no damage.  A dog like Teddy, (not a show dog, has some Collie blood) would cost several thousand dollars.  We paid nothing for him, after being vetted by Golden Retriever Rescue, (there are rescues for all breeds of dogs on the internet in your State), so I am ready to pay whatever is needed.  Teddy's health coverage is $44 a month because of a pre-existing Thyroid condition.  Some operations go into the thousands.  Teddy is covered by Healthy Paws Insurance which is run by a non-profit pet owners foundation.  You may use the licensed vet or your choice.
Click to expand...


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## Beachboy

Coyote said:


> I know the collars are controversial but - when you have a 103 lb dog,  it can be hard for a small person to control - especially if it's a  giant love bug at the end of the leash



"Giant Love Bug" wish I had thought of those words!  She has "Giant Love Bugs"




​ https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090805231435AAnSyqn

At present, The Queen owns four Corgis: Linnet,  Monty, Willow and Holly  and four Dorgis: Cider, Berry, Candy and  Vulcan. The Queens corgis  travel with her to the various residences,  with Her Majesty looking  after them herself as much as her times would  allow.  

These dogs are spoilt to bits and not so friendly at all. Even Her   Majesty gets bitten from time to time, and they often snap at the   Equerry who walks them or engage in a blazing fight amongst themselves.   So next time you see a picture of Her Majesty sporting scratches or   bites on her hands, it's from her dogs. She doesn't care, though. The   Royal staff don't really like them but never dare to complain about them   and certainly not to Her Majesty because then, you can count yourself   lucky not be beheaded for lèse-majesté...  

Back in 2003, Princess Anne's English bullterrier Florence killed The   Queen's corgi Pharos. Her Majesty was devastated at losing Pharos. The   corgis ran out to greet Princess Anne when she arrived at Sandringham   for Christmas. That's when Florence hit. The Queen personally tried to   separate them with the help of Anne and a footman. She'd been bitten and   scratched all over but she couldn't help her dog.  

The Queen neither likes it when people want to pet her dogs or ask about   them because it's so well-known that they are her "heart and soul" and   it is understood that people would want to ingratiate themselves with   her. She is very jealous and possessive of her dogs.  

The Queen also has a kennel on Sandringham Estate where she breeds   Labradors, and of course they have plenty of hunting dogs. She dearly   loves dogs and happily spends time with any of them whenever she has the   opportunity. 




    ALMOST like any of us dog owners.    






​ 
Perhaps QE2 is the only person on the planet that could get away with this!​


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## Beachboy

​ 
Today is Diatanatious Earth day.  

After an internet investigation of ways to prevent fleas and ticks, the  nursery suggested Diatanatious Earth which basically kills parasites  safely.  Basically, it is shards of shells from the bottom of an ocean  or stream.  The owner of  our local nursery said she had traveled to  Santa Domingo and picked up a parasite.  Three weeks of Diatanatious  Earth in here Orange Juice and the parasite was gone.  

Diatanatious Earth can be purchased on the internet for around $25 for  10 pounds delivered.  If it rains on your yard, you probably will need  to apply.




​ 
Footnote; Coyote's phrase "Giant Love Bug" has come into use in our household when petting Teddy.


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## Beachboy

You know you saw this coming ~ Celebrities and their Golden Retrievers.  This is Ryan Reynolds with "Baxter."




​


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## Beachboy

The late President Gerald Ford used to let his Golden Retriever, "Liberty" have the run of the Oval Office.




​


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## Pennywise

Coyote is right, dogs understand immediate action/reaction. Punishing an animal after the fact just confuses them.

Looks like a truly awesome dog.


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## Beachboy

Subaru "Dog Tested"  Commercial series.




Best for last, my favorite!​


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## Beachboy

Actor Jake Gyllenhaal has made this utube of his Golden Retriever and German Shepard, "Boo" and "Atticus." 
And, I thought I was getting carried away.  

​


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## peach174

Coyote said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Love to post about Teddy.  We are really kind of on hold until next  Friday when he gets his session with the Petco trainer/sensitivity  expert.  *Twice* when out for walks, Teddy heard dogs, stopped in  his tracks and would not move ~ FROZEN ON THE SPOT.  I was afraid to  pull too hard on his pronged collar.  Fortunately, my wife was following  behind in the Jeep, and Teddy jumped in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Teddy's neck hair is so thick it does not
> hurt him, unless we get into tug-o-war.​
> No more walks until after that.  We have cleared the back yard,  installed gates from the deck, replaced oriental rugs with cheap carpet  remnants and leave the back door open so he can come and go as he  chooses.  The house is now one giant kennel.  Praise god for Prego  floors!  Right now it is swiffer and vacuum every day.  I do it because I  want my wife to bond more strongly to Teddy.  I believe a quiet house  with accommodating adults is the key.  We are informed that Teddy may  prefer men to women, so we are making a big effort for my wife ~  petting, dog treats, and toys!  I now give nothing but play and petting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you dont have to use that harsh a collar.....he is a golden....given love he will give so much love in return ....you just dont know how lucky you are right now...you will come to know the love of a golden it is like no other dog love..and i am a doberman person
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know the collars are controversial but - when you have a 103 lb dog, it can be hard for a small person to control - especially if it's a giant love bug at the end of the leash
Click to expand...



It's a wrong thing to use.
With correct training you don't need that collar.
I am a very small person but I had complete control over my 175 lb dog, with just a regular nylon collar and a leash.


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## asterism

Coyote said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Love to post about Teddy.  We are really kind of on hold until next  Friday when he gets his session with the Petco trainer/sensitivity  expert.  *Twice* when out for walks, Teddy heard dogs, stopped in  his tracks and would not move ~ FROZEN ON THE SPOT.  I was afraid to  pull too hard on his pronged collar.  Fortunately, my wife was following  behind in the Jeep, and Teddy jumped in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Teddy's neck hair is so thick it does not
> hurt him, unless we get into tug-o-war.​
> No more walks until after that.  We have cleared the back yard,  installed gates from the deck, replaced oriental rugs with cheap carpet  remnants and leave the back door open so he can come and go as he  chooses.  The house is now one giant kennel.  Praise god for Prego  floors!  Right now it is swiffer and vacuum every day.  I do it because I  want my wife to bond more strongly to Teddy.  I believe a quiet house  with accommodating adults is the key.  We are informed that Teddy may  prefer men to women, so we are making a big effort for my wife ~  petting, dog treats, and toys!  I now give nothing but play and petting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you dont have to use that harsh a collar.....he is a golden....given love he will give so much love in return ....you just dont know how lucky you are right now...you will come to know the love of a golden it is like no other dog love..and i am a doberman person
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know the collars are controversial but - when you have a 103 lb dog, it can be hard for a small person to control - especially if it's a giant love bug at the end of the leash
Click to expand...


You need the collar, Beachboy.  Retrievers have a high tolerance for pain and it's virtually impossible for you to cause pain to the dog with it unless you actually hung him with it according to my vet, trainer, and boarder.  The collar is slip-proof and that's the useful part.  Dogs are rambunctious and need reminders more than discipline if they are of the correct temperament.

I'm not sure you're doing you or Teddy any favors by allowing him to sleep in your bed because that confuses them some (the pack leader sleeps there and that should not be him).  But most of the time it doesn't cause a problem.

70x50 is too small for a dog that size without some real running exercise elsewhere.   Try to find a place to set up a long dog run, 200 feet or more.  A few time a month he needs to get up a full sustained sprint, faster than you can run with him.  You can make it using a leash, a snap link, some 1/4" cable, cable clamps, and two heavy duty spiral stakes.

Here are links for all you need:

3/8" X 200', 7x19, Vinyl Coated Galvanized Cable Reel

Light Duty Stainless Steel Thimbles

3/8" Light Duty Wire Rope Thimble

3/8" Electro Galvanized Spring Snap Link

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Favorite-24-Inch-Spiral-Tie-Out-100lbs/dp/B00EQ2B9M6]Amazon.com: Favorite 24-Inch Red Heavy Duty Spiral Stake with Red Tie-Out Cable for Large Dogs (20ft 50lbs): Pet Supplies[/ame]


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## asterism

peach174 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> you dont have to use that harsh a collar.....he is a golden....given love he will give so much love in return ....you just dont know how lucky you are right now...you will come to know the love of a golden it is like no other dog love..and i am a doberman person
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know the collars are controversial but - when you have a 103 lb dog, it can be hard for a small person to control - especially if it's a giant love bug at the end of the leash
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's a wrong thing to use.
> With correct training you don't need that collar.
> I am a very small person but I had complete control over my 175 lb dog, with just a regular nylon collar and a leash.
Click to expand...


If that's the case then you are fortunate.  The problem with normal collars is that any dog can slip out of it whenever it wants to, and dogs in training often want to slip from their collars to go play.  That's why these collars were required equipment for our dog's training.


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## Coyote

peach174 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> you dont have to use that harsh a collar.....he is a golden....given love he will give so much love in return ....you just dont know how lucky you are right now...you will come to know the love of a golden it is like no other dog love..and i am a doberman person
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know the collars are controversial but - when you have a 103 lb dog, it can be hard for a small person to control - especially if it's a giant love bug at the end of the leash
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's a wrong thing to use.
> With correct training you don't need that collar.
> I am a very small person but I had complete control over my 175 lb dog, with just a regular nylon collar and a leash.
Click to expand...


It really depends on the individual dog and the person on the other end of the leash.  Not everyone is a great trainer, not every dog is sensitive.  Many of our students, are average pet owners and aren't going to put in the time or consistency to get decent loose lead walking with a buckle collar.  They need something that they can use  now to control the dog and prong collars, when used correctly are just one of many tools that work.  It's not for every dog, but it's a lot more humane than a choke collar.


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## Coyote

asterism said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know the collars are controversial but - when you have a 103 lb dog, it can be hard for a small person to control - especially if it's a giant love bug at the end of the leash
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a wrong thing to use.
> With correct training you don't need that collar.
> I am a very small person but I had complete control over my 175 lb dog, with just a regular nylon collar and a leash.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If that's the case then you are fortunate.  The problem with normal collars is that any dog can slip out of it whenever it wants to, and dogs in training often want to slip from their collars to go play.  That's why these collars were required equipment for our dog's training.
Click to expand...


We use the no-slip martingale collars a lot as well, dogs can't back out of them and they have a limit on how tight they get (unlike a choke collar).  I've also found front fastening harness' to be effective.

They're all tools in the toolbox and every team is unique.  A trainer needs to be flexible.  The only tool I do not like are e-collars.  They are too often used and misused as a short cut in training, are easily misused and can do horrendous damage.


----------



## strollingbones

excuse me dude,,,i have a 85 lb to 95 lb doberman depending on his fattness of the month.....

and i use a nylon collar and leash....but coyote is right ....he can slip out of it...a problem with damned dobermans...they got this thick neck...slim neck..slim head and right over the head that collar goes...

you are wrong to cold shoulder the golden....that confuses him and leads to poor training...reward him for good behavior and a short scold for bad behavior.....they are velour dogs for a reason


----------



## strollingbones

o and you are preaching to the choir on rescues.....does anyone really go out to get 3 dogs and 3 cats?


----------



## Coyote

strollingbones said:


> excuse me dude,,,i have a 85 lb to 95 lb doberman depending on his fattness of the month.....
> 
> and i use a nylon collar and leash....but coyote is right ....he can slip out of it...a problem with damned dobermans...they got this thick neck...slim neck..slim head and right over the head that collar goes...
> 
> you are wrong to cold shoulder the golden....that confuses him and leads to poor training...reward him for good behavior and a short scold for bad behavior.....they are velour dogs for a reason



Have you tried this type of collar?


----------



## asterism

Coyote said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> excuse me dude,,,i have a 85 lb to 95 lb doberman depending on his fattness of the month.....
> 
> and i use a nylon collar and leash....but coyote is right ....he can slip out of it...a problem with damned dobermans...they got this thick neck...slim neck..slim head and right over the head that collar goes...
> 
> you are wrong to cold shoulder the golden....that confuses him and leads to poor training...reward him for good behavior and a short scold for bad behavior.....they are velour dogs for a reason
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you tried this type of collar?
Click to expand...


I have.  Gracie slips right out of it.


----------



## Coyote

asterism said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> excuse me dude,,,i have a 85 lb to 95 lb doberman depending on his fattness of the month.....
> 
> and i use a nylon collar and leash....but coyote is right ....he can slip out of it...a problem with damned dobermans...they got this thick neck...slim neck..slim head and right over the head that collar goes...
> 
> you are wrong to cold shoulder the golden....that confuses him and leads to poor training...reward him for good behavior and a short scold for bad behavior.....they are velour dogs for a reason
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you tried this type of collar?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have.  Gracie slips right out of it.
Click to expand...


Houdini!


----------



## Beachboy

peach174 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> you dont have to use that harsh a collar.....he is a golden....given love he will give so much love in return ....you just dont know how lucky you are right now...you will come to know the love of a golden it is like no other dog love..and i am a doberman person
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know the collars are controversial but - when you have a 103 lb dog, it can be hard for a small person to control - especially if it's a giant love bug at the end of the leash
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's a wrong thing to use.
> With correct training you don't need that collar.
> I am a very small person but I had complete control over my 175 lb dog, with just a regular nylon collar and a leash.
Click to expand...


This is going to get interesting.  We meet for a private session with the Petco Sensitivity Trainer.  Previously, she had indicated that large dogs have a lot of fur around their necks, and a pronged collar would give control without hurting the dog.

When Teddy froze, and would not move, I could see from the look on his face that he was fighting pain to stay frozen.  This is the real purpose of our Friday meeting with her.  

Thank you for your post.  The more information we receive the better decisions we can make for Teddy.


----------



## Beachboy

While Teddy clearly likes to chase cats.  He scared the heck out of one hiding behind a pine tree yesterday.  Fortunately, for the cat Teddy was focused on chasing a ball I threw near the tree.

To be fair, my wife thinks I should post something nice and funny about cats, so it is.


Teddy is still getting used to living here, (today is day 16), and he seems comfortable.  As weather permits we leave the back door open for him to come in or out as he sees fit.  Last night he was lounging on the deck in the dark.  This morning there were five bird feathers on the deck.   

Can't really blame Teddy, he has 200 years of retriever breeding to pick up birds without damaging them with his teeth.  Last night?  Well, who knows, but we decided not to ask any questions.

We think Teddy is territorial because the home before us had a nine year old Golden that was very territorial, and Teddy was gone in two weeks.  Their loss, our gain!​


----------



## Beachboy

asterism said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> you dont have to use that harsh a collar.....he is a golden....given love he will give so much love in return ....you just dont know how lucky you are right now...you will come to know the love of a golden it is like no other dog love..and i am a doberman person
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know the collars are controversial but - when you have a 103 lb dog, it can be hard for a small person to control - especially if it's a giant love bug at the end of the leash
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need the collar, Beachboy.  Retrievers have a high tolerance for pain and it's virtually impossible for you to cause pain to the dog with it unless you actually hung him with it according to my vet, trainer, and boarder.  The collar is slip-proof and that's the useful part.  Dogs are rambunctious and need reminders more than discipline if they are of the correct temperament.
> 
> I'm not sure you're doing you or Teddy any favors by allowing him to sleep in your bed because that confuses them some (the pack leader sleeps there and that should not be him).  But most of the time it doesn't cause a problem.
> 
> 70x50 is too small for a dog that size without some real running exercise elsewhere.   Try to find a place to set up a long dog run, 200 feet or more.  A few time a month he needs to get up a full sustained sprint, faster than you can run with him.  You can make it using a leash, a snap link, some 1/4" cable, cable clamps, and two heavy duty spiral stakes.
> 
> Here are links for all you need:
> 
> 3/8" X 200', 7x19, Vinyl Coated Galvanized Cable Reel
> 
> Light Duty Stainless Steel Thimbles
> 
> 3/8" Light Duty Wire Rope Thimble
> 
> 3/8" Electro Galvanized Spring Snap Link
> 
> [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Favorite-24-Inch-Spiral-Tie-Out-100lbs/dp/B00EQ2B9M6"]Amazon.com: Favorite 24-Inch Red Heavy Duty Spiral Stake with Red Tie-Out Cable for Large Dogs (20ft 50lbs): Pet Supplies[/ame]
Click to expand...


Thank you for taking the time to provide so much information.  All this will be considered when we meet with the trainer on Friday.  I also ordered a copy of "The Idiot's Guide to Golden Retrievers" for four bucks used and delivered.  So, I am eager to dig into that.





From Google Images

The issue of allowing Teddy in bed came to a head this morning.  Because of the time difference with our New York office, I have to be at my desk at 6AM one week  a month, and this is that week.  At 3:30 this morning I was up, and so was Teddy.  He decided it was time to play.  (Now you see why my wife sleeps in her own bedroom these days).

Teddy was the most frisky I have seen him, and demanded attention, (he always demands attention ).  It was "Turkey Tummy" time.

We all know how children can make up their own words and terms.  As a child when our German Shepard, "Fritz," would lay on his back, his chest looked like a big Thanksgiving turkey.  So, when I would rub his belly, I would say "Turkey Tummy" and get him all hyped up.

Well, Teddy is in on the Turkey Tummy thing, (the visiting spirit of Fritz?), and he was all over that bed, where my wife sleeps, where I sleep, on the pillows.  It was at twenty minutes of Turkey Tummy!  Even though it was the middle of the night, I laughed through every minute of it!   All my sheets and comforter are in the wash now.  A small price to pay for quality entertainment!

I have decided to write this off as "family fun."  Besides, I am noticing a change in myself.  My people are "Corpies" (Fortune 500 career oriented).  The problem with being a Corpy is that you live for tomorrow, design programs that will take three years to complete, and always have a five year plan.

Teddy lives for the moment, and forces me to do the same.  I like this feeling of emotional freedom.  I am much more casual at work.  Coyote's words have found a place in our home, "Giant Love Bug."  It is a lot more than just words, you have to feel it to understand it.​


----------



## Beachboy

Coyote said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a wrong thing to use.
> With correct training you don't need that collar.
> I am a very small person but I had complete control over my 175 lb dog, with just a regular nylon collar and a leash.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that's the case then you are fortunate.  The problem with normal collars is that any dog can slip out of it whenever it wants to, and dogs in training often want to slip from their collars to go play.  That's why these collars were required equipment for our dog's training.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We use the no-slip martingale collars a lot as well, dogs can't back out of them and they have a limit on how tight they get (unlike a choke collar).  I've also found front fastening harness' to be effective.
> 
> They're all tools in the toolbox and every team is unique.  A trainer needs to be flexible.  The only tool I do not like are e-collars.  They are too often used and misused as a short cut in training, are easily misused and can do horrendous damage.
Click to expand...


Thank you for your input.  You must love these Giant Love Bugs!  It is hard to resist their demands for attention!


----------



## Beachboy

asterism said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> excuse me dude,,,i have a 85 lb to 95 lb doberman depending on his fattness of the month.....
> 
> and i use a nylon collar and leash....but coyote is right ....he can slip out of it...a problem with damned dobermans...they got this thick neck...slim neck..slim head and right over the head that collar goes...
> 
> you are wrong to cold shoulder the golden....that confuses him and leads to poor training...reward him for good behavior and a short scold for bad behavior.....they are velour dogs for a reason
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you tried this type of collar?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have.  Gracie slips right out of it.
Click to expand...


Due to USMB, we will be reviewing collars on Friday.  I really  appreciate this input.  There is so much misinformation out there.  It  is a long story, but Teddy's rabies and other shots are not verifiable.   I talked to my neighbor's vet, and he said,"Even if he was vaccinated  ten days ago, we will do it again now." 

I dumped the guy after hearing  from Vet, Lori Granger, that offers 24/7 ambulance pick up of sick or injured dogs. Lori said, "No, I will not give the dog shots again after  ten days.  I will address the city dog license  people for you."  Needless to say Lori Granger is Teddy's vet at $75 a  visit.  Lori has Teddy on Thyroid Meds, and requires a level test every  six weeks.  She seems to address dog health the way my primary care physician does.

The Petco manager, Erika, says, "If you ever hear a vet say, 'Let's try this.'  Get rid of them."  A vet who knows what they are doing will tell us _precisely_ what to due for a dog health problem.


----------



## Beachboy

Coyote,

Is this your dog "Gracie?"  Please share more! ​


----------



## Beachboy

Well, you knew this was coming in a dog thread!

​


----------



## Beachboy

Susan Sarandon  and her two pomeranian mix dogs Penny and Rigby have 
been busy promoting  her films _Arbitrage _and _Cloud Atlas_.​


----------



## Beachboy

Got some rep for this post, so here is a rerun FYI.



Beachboy said:


> ​
> A dog like Teddy, (not a show dog,  has some Collie blood) would cost several thousand dollars.  We paid  nothing for him, _after being vetted_ by Golden Retriever Rescue, (there  are rescues for all breeds of dogs on the internet in your State), so I  am ready to pay whatever is needed after savings like that.
> 
> Teddy's health coverage is $44 a  month because of a pre-existing Thyroid condition.  Most dogs under age 6 can be insured for $30 a month.  Some operations go  into the *thousands of dollars*.  Teddy is covered by Healthy Paws Insurance which is  run by a non-profit pet owners foundation.  You may use the licensed  vet or your choice.


----------



## Coyote

Beachboy said:


> Coyote,
> 
> Is this your dog "Gracie?"  Please share more! ​



She's Asterism's dog 

I have aussies and mixes - hooligans all


----------



## Coyote

Beachboy said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know the collars are controversial but - when you have a 103 lb dog, it can be hard for a small person to control - especially if it's a giant love bug at the end of the leash
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need the collar, Beachboy.  Retrievers have a high tolerance for pain and it's virtually impossible for you to cause pain to the dog with it unless you actually hung him with it according to my vet, trainer, and boarder.  The collar is slip-proof and that's the useful part.  Dogs are rambunctious and need reminders more than discipline if they are of the correct temperament.
> 
> I'm not sure you're doing you or Teddy any favors by allowing him to sleep in your bed because that confuses them some (the pack leader sleeps there and that should not be him).  But most of the time it doesn't cause a problem.
> 
> 70x50 is too small for a dog that size without some real running exercise elsewhere.   Try to find a place to set up a long dog run, 200 feet or more.  A few time a month he needs to get up a full sustained sprint, faster than you can run with him.  You can make it using a leash, a snap link, some 1/4" cable, cable clamps, and two heavy duty spiral stakes.
> 
> Here are links for all you need:
> 
> 3/8" X 200', 7x19, Vinyl Coated Galvanized Cable Reel
> 
> Light Duty Stainless Steel Thimbles
> 
> 3/8" Light Duty Wire Rope Thimble
> 
> 3/8" Electro Galvanized Spring Snap Link
> 
> [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Favorite-24-Inch-Spiral-Tie-Out-100lbs/dp/B00EQ2B9M6"]Amazon.com: Favorite 24-Inch Red Heavy Duty Spiral Stake with Red Tie-Out Cable for Large Dogs (20ft 50lbs): Pet Supplies[/ame]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you for taking the time to provide so much information.  All this will be considered when we meet with the trainer on Friday.  I also ordered a copy of "The Idiot's Guide to Golden Retrievers" for four bucks used and delivered.  So, I am eager to dig into that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From Google Images
> 
> The issue of allowing Teddy in bed came to a head this morning.  Because of the time difference with our New York office, I have to be at my desk at 6AM one week  a month, and this is that week.  At 3:30 this morning I was up, and so was Teddy.  He decided it was time to play.  (Now you see why my wife sleeps in her own bedroom these days).
> 
> Teddy was the most frisky I have seen him, and demanded attention, (he always demands attention ).  It was "Turkey Tummy" time.
> 
> We all know how children can make up their own words and terms.  As a child when our German Shepard, "Fritz," would lay on his back, his chest looked like a big Thanksgiving turkey.  So, when I would rub his belly, I would say "Turkey Tummy" and get him all hyped up.
> 
> Well, Teddy is in on the Turkey Tummy thing, (the visiting spirit of Fritz?), and he was all over that bed, where my wife sleeps, where I sleep, on the pillows.  It was at twenty minutes of Turkey Tummy!  Even though it was the middle of the night, I laughed through every minute of it!   All my sheets and comforter are in the wash now.  A small price to pay for quality entertainment!
> 
> I have decided to write this off as "family fun."  Besides, I am noticing a change in myself.  My people are "Corpies" (Fortune 500 career oriented).  The problem with being a Corpy is that you live for tomorrow, design programs that will take three years to complete, and always have a five year plan.
> 
> Teddy lives for the moment, and forces me to do the same.  I like this feeling of emotional freedom.  I am much more casual at work.  Coyote's words have found a place in our home, "Giant Love Bug."  It is a lot more than just words, you have to feel it to understand it.​
Click to expand...


Your life will never be the same again BB - enjoy every moment and every laugh!


----------



## asterism

Beachboy said:


> Coyote,
> 
> Is this your dog "Gracie?"  Please share more! ​



No, it's my dog Gracie.  She's 2 years 5 months old, 105 lbs., and very sweet.

Here she is on the boat with the kids.


----------



## Beachboy

*Do dogs have a sense of time like humans?* 

Do dogs understand the concept of time? : Dog Guide: Animal PlanetThe article is well worth reading, but the conclusion follows:


*First paragraph:*   Does your dog seem to know when it's  time to go to the dog park, even   before you've taken out the leash? Is  his face pressed against the   window waiting for you to come home from  work each day? To many dog   owners, canines may seem to have an uncannily  accurate concept of time.   But do our four-legged friends really know  what time it is, or is   there something else at work in their minds?

*Last paragraph:*  Dogs often get anxious   when separated from their loved ones, but usually  have little trouble   coping with that anxiety. Most will simply sleep  through it. That's   because canines are equipped with a natural instinct  to live in the   moment, despite having an understanding of the concept of  time. It's   that devil-may-care attitude that allows them to forget  about what   happened yesterday -- good or bad -- and not worry a bit  about what   will happen tomorrow.





​


----------



## Beachboy

Jennifer Anniston walks her dogs "Norman" and "Mollly"
on the beach at Malibu.  It's a dog's life!​


----------



## Beachboy

asterism said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote,
> 
> Is this your dog "Gracie?"  Please share more! ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it's my dog Gracie.  She's 2 years 5 months old, 105 lbs., and very sweet.
> 
> Here she is on the boat with the kids.
Click to expand...

Your dog Gracie must be huge!  Teddy is 3.5 years and 103 pounds, the vet wants him down to 85.  Gracie looks athletic by comparison.  We are keeping Teddy on Chicken Avoderm to reduce his calorie intake.


----------



## Beachboy

We were advised to keep an eye on dog food recalls.  You might be surprised to see some familiar names on the list such as Proctor and Gamble's, IAMS on the list.  http://img2-3.timeinc.net/people/i/2008/pets/migration/000052398.jpg
Check out all the sites by Googling "Dog Food Recalls."

To me any dog food manufacturer that has a Salmonella that could kill my dog is *off *my "buy" list *forever*.  I have begun my research into dog food.  Sometimes the difference between a $50 bag and a $25 bag is FILLER or MADE IN CHINA, AND GOD KNOWS WHAT IS IN IT.  Our vet says Avoderm or Science diet is best if you can afford it.  Dog food is a high profit racket, but I did find this information when you are reading a dog food label at least you can eliminate the crap with the list below;

Average Protein is 29% for dry, and 40% for canned.
 Aveage Fat is 16% for Kibble, and 23% for canned
 250-350 calories per 8oz. cup dry, and 13% canned.​ 
Both Hills Science diet and Avoderm are made in the United States.  I called Avoderm, their dry chicken formula is 298 calories verses their lamb at 360 calories.  Avoderm is made in the U. S., but the meat is from New Zealand.  

I was amazed to learn that most pharmaceuticals come from China today, so most pharma for humans and in dog food comes from there.  Avoderm is costing us $2.26 per day, but since I found out most Ralston-Purina dry is *filler*, which does nothing for the dog, and he just potty's it straight out. I will spend the $2.26 to thin Teddy down, but I am looking for a price.  It really is worth the time to read labels and consider the averages above for a guideline.


----------



## Beachboy

Coyote said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote,
> Is this your dog "Gracie?"  Please share more! ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She's Asterism's dog
> 
> I have aussies and mixes - hooligans all
Click to expand...


Come on Coyote.  If I can admit that my wife and I are sleeping with our dog, certainly you can open up a bit about your "Hooligans."  I know people with Aussies, am I going to have to post images of Aussies from Google like this, or can we have the real thing?  I post the Cattle dog because I liked this pic, but there are Red Tri's, Blue Merle's, and probably more!    We want Hooligans!  We want Hooligans!


----------



## Beachboy

HealthyPaws Pet Insurance sent me some info along with my policy today.  Apparently, a dog under age six with no pre-existing condition can have a policy for about $30 a month.  Their website will give you an estimate for your pet.

If you really love your pet, these non-profit pet owners think you should know the reality of some pet healthcare costs today.

Vomiting and Diarrhea $1,550. HealthyPaws pays *$1,295*
 Ingesting a Foreign Body $6,250.  HealthyPaws pays *$5,525*
 Ear Infections $3,750.  HealthyPaws pays *$3,275*
 Urinary Tract Infections $3,500.  HealthyPaws pays *$3,050*
 Leg Fracture $5,400.  HealthyPaws pays *$4,760*​ 
"It won't happen to my dog or cat." is not a healthcare plan for your pet.









​


----------



## Beachboy

Actor, Ashton Kutcher's bull dog had to be put down last November just  as he had been making his wedding plans with his girlfriend Mila Kunis  who also appeared as Kutcher's girlfriend on "That 70s Show."  Mila  Kunis was at Ashton Kutcher's side when his dog was put down. 




​ 
Now Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis have a new *RESCUE* dog together, and there are  rumors the married couple may have a first child on the way.  However,  the pregnancy is unofficial as of now.  Mila Kunis has been offered a  television series of her own for this fall.


----------



## strollingbones

hey you were good humored and took all the flak well.......i got a lot of flak for revealing i dont make my doberman go out in the cold....if he doesnt wanna go out....i dont make him...he is totally housebroken and will let me know when he needs to go out....

my golden was hector....a guy shelled out a lot of money for a christmas gift for his wife...they lived on the main road and the dog was always on the road..they wanted to sell him....i told them i would not give them a dime but i would give the dog a good home....so i got him....i ask them how much he ate a day..they didnt know...they just opened a bag of food in the shed and he ate it when he wanted.....they said he would not stay with me cause i only lived a couple of miles from them...he never went back...he stayed with me...till the day he didnt eat the oreo...and on the way to the vet he died....i miss that dog to this day...

o my favored hector story...we were up on the bald...a big natural bald in tn...i had hector on a leash...i noticed a couple of guys passing me and wondered what they had sticking out of their backpacks but they went on and i didnt think anything of it again....i took hector off leash..there were no kids and i have a good 1/2 mile or more between us and anyone else....when i notice the stunt kites....that is what was sticking out of the backpacks...they are airborne now and beautiful....the guys seem to be experts at flying them....when a down draft hit and one of the kites hits the ground about 100 ft away from me and hector.....he snaps into action.. and heads towards the kite....i am running after him screaming no....the kite owners is running towards his kite screaming .....stop that fucking dog that kite costs 600 bucks.....hector turns 3 ft away from the downed kite....


----------



## Coyote

Beachboy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote,
> Is this your dog "Gracie?"  Please share more! ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She's Asterism's dog
> 
> I have aussies and mixes - hooligans all
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Come on Coyote.  If I can admit that my wife and I are sleeping with our dog, certainly you can open up a bit about your "Hooligans."  I know people with Aussies, am I going to have to post images of Aussies from Google like this, or can we have the real thing?  I post the Cattle dog because I liked this pic, but there are Red Tri's, Blue Merle's, and probably more!    We want Hooligans!  We want Hooligans!
Click to expand...


Ok.....

The Cujoette (Hazel)





The Boss (Cowboy)





The Hunter (Rosalee) - in stealth mode dismembering a stuffie





The Wimp (Ruger) hunting mice under the snow.


----------



## Beachboy

strollingbones said:


> hey you were good humored and took all the flak well.......i got a lot of flak for revealing i dont make my doberman go out in the cold....if he doesnt wanna go out....i dont make him...he is totally housebroken and will let me know when he needs to go out....
> 
> my golden was hector....a guy shelled out a lot of money for a christmas gift for his wife...they lived on the main road and the dog was always on the road..they wanted to sell him....i told them i would not give them a dime but i would give the dog a good home....so i got him....i ask them how much he ate a day..they didnt know...they just opened a bag of food in the shed and he ate it when he wanted.....they said he would not stay with me cause i only lived a couple of miles from them...he never went back...he stayed with me...till the day he didnt eat the oreo...and on the way to the vet he died....i miss that dog to this day...
> 
> o my favored hector story...we were up on the bald...a big natural bald in tn...i had hector on a leash...i noticed a couple of guys passing me and wondered what they had sticking out of their backpacks but they went on and i didnt think anything of it again....i took hector off leash..there were no kids and i have a good 1/2 mile or more between us and anyone else....when i notice the stunt kites....that is what was sticking out of the backpacks...they are airborne now and beautiful....the guys seem to be experts at flying them....when a down draft hit and one of the kites hits the ground about 100 ft away from me and hector.....he snaps into action.. and heads towards the kite....i am running after him screaming no....the kite owners is running towards his kite screaming .....stop that fucking dog that kite costs 600 bucks.....hector turns 3 ft away from the downed kite....



Now that Hector story is worth more than $600!  Today we took Teddy to the sensitivity trainer, and learned he is "playing us."  I will post later!






This is what I got when I Googled $600 kites!​


----------



## Beachboy

Coyote said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> She's Asterism's dog
> 
> I have aussies and mixes - hooligans all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Come on Coyote.  If I can admit that my wife and I are sleeping with our dog, certainly you can open up a bit about your "Hooligans."  I know people with Aussies, am I going to have to post images of Aussies from Google like this, or can we have the real thing?  I post the Cattle dog because I liked this pic, but there are Red Tri's, Blue Merle's, and probably more!    We want Hooligans!  We want Hooligans!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok.....
> 
> The Cujoette (Hazel)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Boss (Cowboy)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Hunter (Rosalee) - in stealth mode dismembering a stuffie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Wimp (Ruger) hunting mice under the snow.
Click to expand...


First off, you have totally thrown out the internet image I have of you in my mind.  Hazel reminds me of the German Shepard I had as a boy.  I could not take another Shepard, I would compare him constantly to Fritz. The thing I like about Hazel is she looks like a dog.  When I walk down to Venice Beach, I can not get around the bodybuilders with their Poodles.  Now nothing against Poodles because I know they are a lot smarty than their fluffy appearance.  You just kind of expect a big guy to have a big dog.  Eh, who am I to judge.  We sleep with our dog!

Cowboy would be the one I would pick for me.  That health harness has to be a tough one.  But, if Cowboy is the boss, I like his alpha courage.  Our Teddy is overwhelming love to little kids, and he looks thoroughbred, but he has some Collie and Pomeranian.  Just like with people, I think mixed blood is a good thing. 

Now Rosalee is the dog that would push me around.  I'd probably be apologizing to her that it was my fault that the stuffie fell apart.  I learned from the dog trainer today that I am letting Teddy walk all over me.

Ruger is interesting to me.  It may only be a photo, but I see Teddy's floppy personality here.  I think I miffed the  dog sensitivity trainer today when I said that if Teddy wants to go out on the deck instead of in the house, I will let him.  I will not turn into my mother and nag him to death with all kinds of commands.  We run a casual house.  Petco's sensitivity trainer Sarah looked at me and said, "More proof about dog training, the owners need more than the dogs!"

We signed up for six sessions twice a week with an option for six more.  My wife and I realized we have a lot to learn, and the end result will be a better life for Teddy, Laura, and me.

Now, Coyote, you have teased us with Hazel, Cowboy, Rosalee, and Ruger.  May I prevail upon you for a story on each?






This has got to be kin to Teddy with that ball, he teases us with it.​


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## Beachboy

We waited all week for today's Petco sensitivity trainer to work with Teddy.

The first thing she explained is that dogs are like people.  There are Alpha's, (leaders who are unafraid to lead and their owners answer to them), and the Beta's (dogs that prefer to follow along, but can take the Alpha role if need be).

Sarah thinks Teddy is confused because he can get us to respond to his whining, and attention getting techniques.  We were advised to teach Teddy to walk behind us, and to not let him go through doors first.  If I am on the computer and Teddy sits touching a foot, I should pull it away.  Teddy can use "the sense of touch." to control me.  We were reminded that we make the mortgage payment, not Teddy.  Teddy is a guest.

The biggest surprise to me was that Sarah said* Teddy thinks people are  other dogs who can stand on two feet!   Laura and I must be the Alpha  dogs*, Teddy will relax because he will not be confused as to his having  to be an Alpha.  Teddy wants to be a Beta, so we need to help him. There was no discussion of treatment for a _real_ Alpha dog.  This Alpha/Beta thing, I have applied at the office without even knowing it.  If we want a new account at the Ad Agency you offer an Alpha a pile of money to get it for you.  Alphas are like pit bulls, they attack because they are greed motivated.  With a Beta be prepared for a long discussion of the moral aspect of promoting that kind of client's products.  Beta's don't want to see a balance sheet, they want to see the human rights record of the potential client.  I am a beta that fakes alpha to compete with alphas.  I believe that_ in the long run_, betas do a better job of running companies, and are much easier to work with.

Sarah taught us not to look into Teddy's eyes when he wants attention, he knows how to control us with his eyes.  Eventually, Teddy will have to go on walks and see other dogs, we are to *keep him behind us, *and *move him behind our back to our other side*.   Apparently, Teddy responds to us when he sees another dog and feels protective of his gang.  If we pull Teddy aside, and do not show anxiety about the other dog, Teddy will ignore him because we are the Alphas in the pack, and we show no threat.




​ 
The final point was on the pronged collar that was so controversial in this thread.  We should not get into a* tug-o-war *with the dog.  The collar will not hurt him because of the amount of fur on his neck.  Pressure is to be pulled quickly, and immediately released in a sharp motion.  Then make the dog sit.  A dog is like a teeter-tatter.  Make him look up at your hand without making eye contact.  Say "sit."  Eyes go up and butt goes down.  We were amazed the way Sarah could bring back his original training in only minutes.

Another thing I learned, Petco used money to judge our commitment to Teddy.  First, we heard $80 an hour, but were given a discount for $40 and hour, which we paid.  Today, we bought six lessons for $100, with an option for another six.  Teddy will get two private sessions next week before he goes to a class with other dogs.  Socialization is needed for Teddy.  Fortunately, Teddy already has the skills we want, he just needs to learn to take it from Laura and I as "Alpha Dogs."

*Strollingbones story of Hector* is so much like our Teddy.  There are a lot of idiots out there that should not be allowed to have dogs.  We dog owners are going to get back what we give out.  Kill Kennels should be used for bad owners, not dogs.






Footnote;  Even though Teddy is neutered, he made a new friend in "Kera" a black female Labradore Retriever who has been fixed.  They were instant friends.​


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## Beachboy

*One more time!*

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## Coyote

I have to laugh BB - you see a lot in the pictures of my dogs 

You are spot on about them.  Cowboy is my "heart" dog - 13 yrs old, loves people, loves kids, loves to work.  He has spinal cord damage - a result of a congenital problem combined with arthritus.  For a long time he just bull-dozed his way through anything and everything.  We learned herding together, worked with sheep and cattle, and went to stock dog clinics.  He was a hard dog to work with - very talented while I was a slow-footed amateur.  Now, our activities together are reduced but the cart allows him to walk longer distances (he can stand, and go short distances, but not very far before his hind end goes east when his front goes west).  Here he is before he retired 







Hazel, aka "The Cujoette" was a rescue dog I fostered.  Her story is complicated but the end result was she was not adoptable due to her reactivity so I ended up keeping her.  She's mellowed a lot in that time and is smart as a whip (probably why she gets into so much trouble).  She's about 10 now.

Hazel, is very predatory, and killed a bunny some years ago, about a week before Easter. My backyard is fenced with 5 foot chainlink, and any critter that enters a yard inhabited by multiple dogs (I had 6 back then) has GOT to be mentally deficient - so this is definately evolution in action. I'm sitting in the living room reading and hubby goes to let the dogs in. I hear this plaintive wail come from the mudroom - "Hoooooooooonnnnnneeeee you better come look at this". Hazel is standing there, 4 square and poking out of her mouth are two bunny ears. That is all that is visable. Oh. Goodie. I tell Hazel in a cheerful voice "give" and hold out my hand. She looks at me with an obvious question in her eyes: "are you effing kidding me?". She has the prize. No way is she giving it up. Her jaws are locked in a death grip around it. So, I beat a strategic retreat to the cookie jar: diplomacy in action. I hold up a handful of cookies and look at her. She looks at me. Thinks hard for a second (you can see the wheels turning - cookies or bunny). Doesn't take long. She drops the bunny (head) and dives for the cookies. I, meanwhile, get rid of the evidence. She murdered the Easter Bunny ...never did find the rest of it...not sure I wanted to.....


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## Beachboy

Coyote said:


> I have to laugh BB - you see a lot in the pictures of my dogs
> 
> You are spot on about them.  Cowboy is my "heart" dog - 13 yrs old,  loves people, loves kids, loves to work.  He has spinal cord damage - a  result of a congenital problem combined with arthritus.  For a long time  he just bull-dozed his way through anything and everything.  We learned  herding together, worked with sheep and cattle, and went to stock dog  clinics.  He was a hard dog to work with - very talented while I was a  slow-footed amateur.  Now, our activities together are reduced but the  cart allows him to walk longer distances (he can stand, and go short  distances, but not very far before his hind end goes east when his front  goes west).  Here he is before he retired
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hazel, aka "The Cujoette" was a rescue dog I fostered.  Her story is  complicated but the end result was she was not adoptable due to her  reactivity so I ended up keeping her.  She's mellowed a lot in that time  and is smart as a whip (probably why she gets into so much trouble).   She's about 10 now.
> 
> Hazel, is very predatory, and killed a bunny some years ago, about a  week before Easter. My backyard is fenced with 5 foot chainlink, and any  critter that enters a yard inhabited by multiple dogs (I had 6 back  then) has GOT to be mentally deficient - so this is definately evolution  in action. I'm sitting in the living room reading and hubby goes to let  the dogs in. I hear this plaintive wail come from the mudroom -  "Hoooooooooonnnnnneeeee you better come look at this". Hazel is standing  there, 4 square and poking out of her mouth are two bunny ears. That is  all that is visable. Oh. Goodie. I tell Hazel in a cheerful voice  "give" and hold out my hand. She looks at me with an obvious question in  her eyes: "are you effing kidding me?". She has the prize. No way is  she giving it up. Her jaws are locked in a death grip around it. So, I  beat a strategic retreat to the cookie jar: diplomacy in action. I hold  up a handful of cookies and look at her. She looks at me. Thinks hard  for a second (you can see the wheels turning - cookies or bunny).  Doesn't take long. She drops the bunny (head) and dives for the cookies.  I, meanwhile, get rid of the evidence. She murdered the Easter Bunny  ...never did find the rest of it...not sure I wanted to.....



Now this I love, dogs are dogs, and I think they are hysterical.  Being a  retriever Teddy loves tennis balls.  He uses them as bait for us.   He'll put the ball three inches in front of his nose, but when I go to  grab it, he beats me to it.  Then he'll come up to me holding his trophy  challenging us to take it.  It took a bit of time to learn to reach  into his mouth to take the ball.  Usually it takes me both hands to win  this tug of war, but never a scratch on my hands because of his  retriever blood to not harm game in his mouth.  That said, there have  now been two mornings where bird feathers were on the deck.   Hmmmmmm.........

My wife and I thought we were going for a nice quiet lunch at Denny's,  (the neighborhood meeting spot), and then to Kroger.  We were both  quietly eating, and I looked at her and said what is on your mind?   Laura said.  "Let's get all this stuff done quickly because Teddy is  home alone."  We ran through that grocery manically throwing things in  the basket.
Teddy has us under control.  

So, ok, when I take Teddy out to someplace like Home Depot, I want him  to behave from proper training.  I want him to make us proud.  But, when  he is home, he is like us ~ lazy bones.  I am not going to nag this dog  with a lot of commands.  He was abused we understand by being locked  indoors all day, and listened to adults arguing all night.  Sorry  trainer, Sarah, our dog, follows the same rules we do.  If Teddy wants  to do night walking from bedroom to bedroom, or to his own private sofa  in the living room fine.  I can deal with washing my sheets every  morning if that is what it takes to enjoy all that "tummy rubbing" on  the bed.

Next door is a Chow, behind the Chow is a Doberman, and behind Teddy is  Boxer, and on the other side is a black cat who likes to come into  Teddy's yard.  We used to welcome that black cat.  It was cute last  winter when rain forced the cat to hide under our barbeque grill.  The  cat starts teasing Teddy, he is on his own.

I see dogs like Cowboy with his health wheels, and I know a hurting  owner when I see them.  This is why it was a no-brainer for me to lay  out $44 a month for  HealthyPaws pet insurance.  I will not allow the  possibility of a $6,000 medical bill stand in the way of caring properly  for a family member.  I am moved, and can so no more about Cowboy at  this time.

I am glad to know Hazel is a rescue dog like Teddy.  There is something  very special about them.  When I feed Teddy he will come to me after he  finishes and acknowledge me.  He does not stay.  I think he is saying  "Thanks for the eats!"




​ *
** HealthyPaws insurance is part of a non-profit foundation of pet owners, but there are other pet insurance organizations.  
HealthyPaws is endorsed by William Shatner whose dog was saved by the HealthyPaws Insurance and Foundation.*​


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## Beachboy

If you have a pooch, please do not forget to *peruse the dog food recall web sites. * With *Salmonella* in nationally known dog food processing plants, and especially dog food *products from China*, your dogs life depends on it.https://www.google.com/search?q=dog...la:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb






Old news? Perhaps, but to me, any company that allows a pet killer food on the market, clearly does not give a damn about my dog. * 
I will never buy from these rip-off artists.* 
Really, how hard is it to keep a pet food plant clean and healthy?  These company's simply do not care?​


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## Coyote

This is a great thread BB 

3 of my 4 dogs are rescues, each with their own story


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## Beachboy

*Well folks, we lost a big one!  *
*Bobby De Niro is a cat owner/lover! *






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## Beachboy

Jack Nicholson is a dog owner and lover, so much so that he admits he has been enticed into making movies because a dog was in the script!.

That's big bad Jack Nicholson for you!





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## Beachboy

*Figured this was worth a rerun!*



Beachboy said:


> We were advised to keep an eye on dog food recalls.  You might be surprised to see some familiar names on the list such as Proctor and Gamble's, IAMS on the list.  http://img2-3.timeinc.net/people/i/2008/pets/migration/000052398.jpg
> Check out all the sites by Googling "Dog Food Recalls."
> 
> To me any dog food manufacturer that has a Salmonella that could kill my dog is *off *my "buy" list *forever*.  I have begun my research into dog food.  Sometimes the difference between a $50 bag and a $25 bag is FILLER or MADE IN CHINA, AND GOD KNOWS WHAT IS IN IT.  Our vet says Avoderm or Science diet is best if you can afford it.  Dog food is a high profit racket, but I did find this information when you are reading a dog food label at least you can eliminate the crap with the list below;
> 
> Average Protein is 29% for dry, and 40% for canned.
> Aveage Fat is 16% for Kibble, and 23% for canned
> 250-350 calories per 8oz. cup dry, and 13% canned.​
> Both Hills Science diet and Avoderm are made in the United States.  I called Avoderm, their dry chicken formula is 298 calories verses their lamb at 360 calories.  Avoderm is made in the U. S., but the meat is from New Zealand.
> 
> I was amazed to learn that most pharmaceuticals come from China today, so most pharma for humans and in dog food comes from there.  Avoderm is costing us $2.26 per day, but since I found out most Ralston-Purina dry is *filler*, which does nothing for the dog, and he just potty's it straight out. I will spend the $2.26 to thin Teddy down, but I am looking for a price.  It really is worth the time to read labels and consider the averages above for a guideline.


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## Beachboy

​ 

The Clintons are now dog owners, but in their White House days who can forget Socks the cat!​


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## Beachboy

Lady Gaga is often seen with different "Designer dogs."  
Gaga refuses to discuss her dogs, and considers them a private matter.​


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## Beachboy

HealthyPaws is a non-profit foundation owned by pet owners.  However there are other organizations that offer pet insurance.

(Beachboy), with our new Share with Friends program, helping your  pet-passionate friends protect their furry family members has never been  easier.









Just a quick note, your 15 day waiting period is over, so it's O.K. to take the bubble wrap off of *your pets* now and have fun!




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## strollingbones

do not use science hill foods.....vets only take one or two nutrition classes and they are normally taught by science hill who also supplies vets with free food....etc....i did the raw diet for a while but it was just too much with 3 dogs


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## Beachboy

*Teddy says "Hey" to Cowboy!*​


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## Coyote

BB, if you want to research a bit to find a quality dog food, I'd recommend reading this article: Whole Dog Journal's 2013 Dry Dog Food Review | Earth Pets of Gainesville

It offers some good tips, how to read the labels and what to look for plus, they rate dog foods in a way that's open and easy to understand


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## Beachboy

strollingbones said:


> do not use science hill foods.....vets   only take one or two nutrition classes and they are normally taught by   science hill who also supplies vets with free food....etc....i did the   raw diet for a while but it was just too much with 3 dogs



This is important information for me.  Hill's Science Diet is on my list   of dog foods to investigate.  Avoderm is what came with our Teddy, but   at $50 for a 30 pound bag, I think we can do better in terms of price.    Teddy's meals run $2.26 per day.  Here are the guidelines I have been   using for finding a HEALTHY reasonably priced dog food.  As a boy we  fed  our Shepard Ralston-Purina dog chow, now I learn it nothing but  filler  that the dog potty out.

Here are the guidelines I am using to select a quality, reasonably priced dog food.

Average Protein is 29% for dry, and 40% for canned.
 Average Fat is 16% for Kibble, and 23% for canned
 250-350 calories per 8oz. cup dry, and 13% canned.​  




​


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## Beachboy

Coyote said:


> BB, if you want to research a bit to find a quality dog food, I'd recommend reading this article: Whole Dog Journal's 2013 Dry Dog Food Review | Earth Pets of Gainesville
> 
> It offers some good tips, how to read the labels and what to look for plus, they rate dog foods in a way that's open and easy to understand



I put your link in my dog food research favorites, and plan a thorough investigation of my own this month.

I see there is a new Dog Thread, we should go there, then we will be with all the dogs!  Looks like a good idea to me.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/pets/349099-how-about-a-dog-lover-s-thread.html





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