# Gun rights are necessary - gun obsession is not



## ElmerMudd (May 27, 2022)

Gun rights are needed for personal security, hunting, target sport and as a potential check on an over-reaching government but in today's world you will need more than guns.

But we have people in our society obsessed with guns. Their are fringe groups who define their manhood, personal safety, self-worth and protection from government over-reach strictly on guns. They seem to need guns more than air and water. They include street gangs, They include disenfranchised loners. They include left wing radicals wanting to over throw the government. They include right wing anti-government groups.

We need laws to protect us from those who are obsessed with guns and what they do with them
Our current laws protect the rights of the obsessed to have guns and do what they do with them.


----------



## Canon Shooter (May 27, 2022)

The problem with that is that damn near every left-wing gun hater sees the desire to own even a single firearm as something so outlandish that it can't be allowed.
Until the left gets its collective head out of its ass, there won;t be much to talk about...


----------



## 1srelluc (May 27, 2022)

I bought three this week.  

So far. 

Here's two of them.

"Paratrooper" SKS.....Look at the pre-Clinton ban evil bayonet.....Oh my, so scary.






1971 Ruger MK I Target pistol.





The other was just a parts SKS I brought up to snuff and consigned.


----------



## Circe (May 27, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Gun rights are needed for personal security, hunting, target sport and as a potential check on an over-reaching government but in today's world you will need more than guns.
> 
> But we have people in our society obsessed with guns. Their are fringe groups who define their manhood, personal safety, self-worth and protection from government over-reach strictly on guns. They seem to need guns more than air and water. They include street gangs, They include disenfranchised loners. They include left wing radicals wanting to over throw the government. They include right wing anti-government groups.
> 
> ...


Most people "obsessed" with guns are just collecting them --- they've got money, why not? 

Shoooooooo --- as my husband said yesterday, we could invade Delaware!

Joking, joking.


----------



## Harry Dresden (May 27, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Gun rights are needed for personal security, hunting, target sport and as a potential check on an over-reaching government but in today's world you will need more than guns.
> 
> But we have people in our society obsessed with guns. Their are fringe groups who define their manhood, personal safety, self-worth and protection from government over-reach strictly on guns. They seem to need guns more than air and water. They include street gangs, They include disenfranchised loners. They include left wing radicals wanting to over throw the government. They include right wing anti-government groups.
> 
> ...


anti gun people are kind of obsessed with them too....


----------



## Darkwind (May 27, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Gun rights are needed for personal security, hunting, target sport and as a potential check on an over-reaching government but in today's world you will need more than guns.
> 
> But we have people in our society obsessed with guns. Their are fringe groups who define their manhood, personal safety, self-worth and protection from government over-reach strictly on guns. They seem to need guns more than air and water. They include street gangs, They include disenfranchised loners. They include left wing radicals wanting to over throw the government. They include right wing anti-government groups.
> 
> ...


You are correct, but it isn't the gun owners who are obsessed.

It is the gun grabbers who are obsessed with guns.  They want them gone, period.  No other solution is ever considered, and the hatred just flies across the pages of our newsprint, and the raging and redfaced frothing across our screens.

They are even calling for the repeal of the 2nd when it isn't even a gun problem.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (May 27, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Gun rights are needed for personal security, hunting, target sport and as a potential check on an over-reaching government but in today's world you will need more than guns.
> 
> But we have people in our society obsessed with guns. Their are fringe groups who define their manhood, personal safety, self-worth and protection from government over-reach strictly on guns. They seem to need guns more than air and water. They include street gangs, They include disenfranchised loners. They include left wing radicals wanting to over throw the government. They include right wing anti-government groups.
> 
> ...


The problem is that you’re looking for a _Minority Report_ solution that’s devoid of legal merit – it isn’t illegal to be obsessed with guns, there is no legal consensus as to what constitutes obsession, and even if enacted, such a law or laws would be impossible to enforce – in addition to not being able to pass Constitutional muster.


----------



## night_son (May 27, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Gun rights are needed for personal security, hunting, target sport and as a potential check on an over-reaching government but in today's world you will need more than guns.
> 
> But we have people in our society obsessed with guns. Their are fringe groups who define their manhood, personal safety, self-worth and protection from government over-reach strictly on guns. They seem to need guns more than air and water. They include street gangs, They include disenfranchised loners. They include left wing radicals wanting to over throw the government. They include right wing anti-government groups.
> 
> ...



Do you really believe the government can protect you from the bad guys? All law enforcement agencies operate in a clean-up rather than a prevention capacity. People kill other people; the cops swoop in to clean-up the mess and hunt down the guilty party. Further, no gun law imaginable will protect you or anyone else from people who don't follow laws in the first place. 

Speed limit signs deter no one who speeds and causes car accidents. 

Further gun laws would serve only as shackles around the feet of people who _choose_ to obey the law, and in doing so, are often left unprepared to defend themselves or the ones they love because the law told them they couldn't carry, or keep ready or own in the first place.


----------



## mudwhistle (May 27, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Gun rights are needed for personal security, hunting, target sport and as a potential check on an over-reaching government but in today's world you will need more than guns.
> 
> But we have people in our society obsessed with guns. Their are fringe groups who define their manhood, personal safety, self-worth and protection from government over-reach strictly on guns. They seem to need guns more than air and water. They include street gangs, They include disenfranchised loners. They include left wing radicals wanting to over throw the government. They include right wing anti-government groups.
> 
> ...


----------



## Quasar44 (May 27, 2022)

Time for guns to go


----------



## ElmerMudd (May 27, 2022)

1srelluc said:


> I bought three this week.
> 
> So far.
> 
> ...


Is this the type of peron who should be brought to the attention of law enforcement. The mass killer in Texas braged about buying guns on social media before killing 21. It is one thing to buy guns. It is another thing to brag about it. Most mass shooters bragged about the guns thet had.


----------



## ElmerMudd (May 27, 2022)

night_son said:


> Do you really believe the government can protect you from the bad guys? All law enforcement agencies operate in a clean-up rather than a prevention capacity. People kill other people; the cops swoop in to clean-up the mess and hunt down the guilty party. Further, no gun law imaginable will protect you or anyone else from people who don't follow laws in the first place.
> 
> Speed limit signs deter no one who speeds and causes car accidents.
> 
> Further gun laws would serve only as shackles around the feet of people who _choose_ to obey the law, and in doing so, are often left unprepared to defend themselves or the ones they love because the law told them they couldn't carry, or keep ready or own in the first place.


Regulations minimize infractions they do not eliminate them. Try taking all speed limits off highways and see what happens.


----------



## 22lcidw (May 27, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Gun rights are needed for personal security, hunting, target sport and as a potential check on an over-reaching government but in today's world you will need more than guns.
> 
> But we have people in our society obsessed with guns. Their are fringe groups who define their manhood, personal safety, self-worth and protection from government over-reach strictly on guns. They seem to need guns more than air and water. They include street gangs, They include disenfranchised loners. They include left wing radicals wanting to over throw the government. They include right wing anti-government groups.
> 
> ...


Every time Progs talk it is not the left that loses.


----------



## 1srelluc (May 27, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Is this the type of peron who should be brought to the attention of law enforcement. The mass killer in Texas braged about buying guns on social media before killing 21. It is one thing to buy guns. It is another thing to brag about it. Most mass shooters bragged about the guns thet had.


LOL....Drama much?

Hell, half the PD in town has came by at one time or another to have me trouble shoot a weapon for them. I'm glad to help them out as long as they pay for any needed parts if I don't have any on-hand. 

It's usually just simple stuff that a real gunsmith would charge them $75 a hour for......That and it gives me something to do that I enjoy in my retirement.

It was the same thing when I was a young man and did not know my way around guns much....Our former Chief of Police (long passed) was a fair gunsmith so I would take stuff there for him to work on and watch/learn from him......I guess I'm just sort of paying it forward.


----------



## johngaltshrugged (May 27, 2022)

Every mass shooter is already breaking multiple laws but you advocate more laws for them to ignore.
How many new rules do you think it will take to eliminate the psychos in our society?
Who decides what is an "obsession"? 
Is it the number of guns?
The calibers or actions?
Are large capacity magazines to much?
Posting pics or simply mentioning them online?
Or is it just anything that makes you personally uncomfortable?


----------



## LAUGHatLEFTISTS (May 27, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Gun rights are needed for personal security, hunting, target sport and as a potential check on an over-reaching government but in today's world you will need more than guns.
> 
> But we have people in our society obsessed with guns. Their are fringe groups who define their manhood, personal safety, self-worth and protection from government over-reach strictly on guns. They seem to need guns more than air and water. They include street gangs, They include disenfranchised loners. They include left wing radicals wanting to over throw the government. They include right wing anti-government groups.
> 
> ...



Try to absorb this comment without the influence of feelings. 
Politicians(government) will never be able to protect you and yours. The only one that can do that is you.


----------



## ElmerMudd (May 27, 2022)

22lcidw said:


> Every time Progs talk it is not the left that loses.


The nut cases on the far right and the far left are dominating the conversation. We need sane people in the middle to come up with real world solutions.


----------



## ElmerMudd (May 27, 2022)

LAUGHatLEFTISTS said:


> Try to absorb this comment without the influence of feelings.
> Politicians(government) will never be able to protect you and yours. The only one that can do that is you.


I agree. And I want to work with other sane people for common sense regulations and we will take it from there.


----------



## ElmerMudd (May 27, 2022)

johngaltshrugged said:


> Every mass shooter is already breaking multiple laws but you advocate more laws for them to ignore.
> How many new rules do you think it will take to eliminate the psychos in our society?
> Who decides what is an "obsession"?
> Is it the number of guns?
> ...


Real world has shown us was is too little. 90% of the US want universal background checks. Why not. It will stop all but it will stop some, maybe most. Something has to be done. Thoughts and prayers are not working.


----------



## ElmerMudd (May 27, 2022)

1srelluc said:


> LOL....Drama much?
> 
> Hell, half the PD in town has came by at one time or another to have me trouble shoot a weapon for them. I'm glad to help them out as long as they pay for any needed parts if I don't have any on-hand.
> 
> ...


You should be working for common sense solutions that will include common sense regulations.
You are posting like the crazy mass killers. Where do you think they get it from.
Guns are a tool not a badge. 
Too many dumbass adults are showing kids that guns will make the strong, make them tough, will take care of the people that cross them.
People are doing it on this site.
It is sick and crazy.


----------



## johngaltshrugged (May 27, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Real world has shown us was is too little. 90% of the US want universal background checks. Why not. It will stop all but it will stop some, maybe most. Something has to be done. Thoughts and prayers are not working.


How many mass shooters had legal guns that bypassed a background check?
The fact is, most acquired the guns illegally or passed the required tests already.
Most mass shootings are gang related & those guns are never legal.
What you are wanting is some magic formula where they can predict who is a future danger & there is none.
Anything they would attempt would eventually turn to gun total confiscation & you should know this.

Hardening the schools & adding a well armed security guard behind locked entrances would stop this stuff today.


----------



## 1srelluc (May 27, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> You should be working for common sense solutions that will include common sense regulations.
> You are posting like the crazy mass killers. Where do you think they get it from.
> Guns are a tool not a badge.
> Too many dumbass adults are showing kids that guns will make the strong, make them tough, will take care of the people that cross them.
> ...


Meh, at least you realize your limitations even though you lack the same respect for others.

I taught all my kids proper gun handling when they were old enough and left it to them if they wanted to carry if forward or not. None of them are wilting flowers. 

One does not have much of a interest outside of HD/CC and shoots enough to remain proficient....I take no issue with that. 

The other shares the same interests as I do and I have to play "stern dad" sometimes warning "don't let your eyes overload your wallet". 

One has a kid almost old enough for a youth single-shot .22 rifle and youth .410 shotgun.....So I'll get him started this summer and if he shows promise as far as following safety procedures and marksmanship I'll see how he does in the squirrel woods in the fall.....I look forward to that. He loves eating squirrel.


----------



## Briss (May 27, 2022)

johngaltshrugged said:


> How many mass shooters had legal guns that bypassed a background check?
> The fact is, most acquired the guns illegally or passed the required tests already.
> Most mass shootings are gang related & those guns are never legal.
> What you are wanting is some magic formula where they can predict who is a future danger & there is none.
> ...


There does seem to be this rising cult among us whose unspoken directive is to bubble wrap society what ever it takes, no matter what.


----------



## Rogue AI (May 27, 2022)

With a single paycheck many can buy enough fentanyl to kill a small town, a sex slave, or any number of terrible things from across our southern border. Why would anyone be stupid enough to think gun control laws would effect anyone with evil intent? Especially in a border area. This pathetic political posturing is inane and counter productive. It's not the guns, it's the asshole shooters. Fix that problem and leave our rights alone.


----------



## whitehall (May 27, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Gun rights are needed for personal security, hunting, target sport and as a potential check on an over-reaching government but in today's world you will need more than guns.
> 
> But we have people in our society obsessed with guns. Their are fringe groups who define their manhood, personal safety, self-worth and protection from government over-reach strictly on guns. They seem to need guns more than air and water. They include street gangs, They include disenfranchised loners. They include left wing radicals wanting to over throw the government. They include right wing anti-government groups.
> 
> ...


Who gets to determine "obsession"? Does a target handgun and a hunting rifle rise to the level of obsession? How about a collection of firearms that are worth more than most pitiful roach infested liberal city apartments? Does membership in the NRA indicate obsession when half a dozen U.S. Presidents were members? What happens when the 1st Amendment becomes an obsession? Do we start investigating conservative Preachers who might not be on board with the current administration?


----------



## TheGreatSatan (May 27, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Gun rights are needed for personal security, hunting, target sport and as a potential check on an over-reaching government but in today's world you will need more than guns.
> 
> But we have people in our society obsessed with guns. Their are fringe groups who define their manhood, personal safety, self-worth and protection from government over-reach strictly on guns. They seem to need guns more than air and water. They include street gangs, They include disenfranchised loners. They include left wing radicals wanting to over throw the government. They include right wing anti-government groups.
> 
> ...


If times were peaceful, the demand for guns would drop.

America needs a return to god.


----------



## Missourian (May 27, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> You should be working for common sense solutions that will include common sense regulations.
> You are posting like the crazy mass killers. Where do you think they get it from.
> Guns are a tool not a badge.
> Too many dumbass adults are showing kids that guns will make the strong, make them tough, will take care of the people that cross them.
> ...


I think...you should get a gun.

Get some training.

Make a friend and go to the range together.

Then,  when you've overcome your fear of firearms,  go get yourself a pistol that you feel comfortable with.

Some suggestions...

My wife is partial to her Sig P238 .380





I carry the Remington RM380







HereWeGoAgain likes the Ruger LCP 380





Ringel05 is a fan of those Eastern Bloc 9x18





And B. Kidd just picked up an S&W CSX micro 9...but you'll have to wait a few weeks to get a review on that one.






Ringel05 might try to convince you to get a Yeet Cannon...





... don't listen... 

But we're here for ya buddy.

We'll be happy to help you get over your fear.


----------



## Circe (May 27, 2022)

Missourian said:


> I think...you should get a gun.
> 
> Get some training.
> 
> ...


I like the little purse gun ----------------


----------



## blackhawk (May 27, 2022)

How many guns would one have to own to be considered obsessed with them? Who gets to determine that number and what would qualify them to make that determination?


----------



## TheGreatSatan (May 27, 2022)

blackhawk said:


> How many guns would one have to own to be considered obsessed with them? Who gets to determine that number and what would qualify them to make that determination?


A gun czar?


----------



## ElmerMudd (May 27, 2022)

Missourian said:


> I think...you should get a gun.
> 
> Get some training.
> 
> ...


no fear of guns. The problem is the people who own guns. People who show pictures of their guns on social media have then gone out and did mass killings. I worry about you. You are doing things mass killers do


----------



## Missourian (May 27, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> no fear of guns. The problem is the people who own guns. People who show pictures of their guns on social media have then gone out and did mass killings. I worry about you. You are doing things mass killers do


This is exactly why I feel you are struggling with fear.

Millions and millions of people post pictures and talk about firearms online.

Just like a hundred million people or more in the US own guns.

If a picture if a gun makes you fearful...you should seek therapy.


You can rid yourself of this unreasonably fear and get back control of your life.

Make a friend...go shooting...it's a very enjoyable hobby that I picked up in earnest while serving in the Army.

Sure...my Dad and I shot .22 and went hunting...but in the Army my fellow soldiers weren't interested in shooting tin cans or pie plates.

If you weren't consistently in the 10 ring...you weren't practicing enough.


Let's plumb the depths of you phobia...

...this gentlemen posted a gun pic ...

...do you think he might be a mass shooter?


----------



## ElmerMudd (May 27, 2022)

Missourian said:


> This is exactly why I feel you are struggling with fear.
> 
> Millions and millions of people post pictures and talk about firearms online.
> 
> ...


get help before you hurt someone. What you think is normal is not.


----------



## ElmerMudd (May 27, 2022)

blackhawk said:


> How many guns would one have to own to be considered obsessed with them? Who gets to determine that number and what would qualify them to make that determination?


When someone is more concerned about protecting their guns than their family and friends is obsessed. It is not the number of guns.


----------



## blackhawk (May 27, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> When someone is more concerned about protecting their guns than their family and friends is obsessed. It is not the number of guns.


Someone wanting to protect their Second Amendement is not an obsession nor or is it a lack of concern for their family and friends this is one of your sillier statements and that takes some doing.


----------



## Missourian (May 28, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> get help before you hurt someone. What you think is normal is not.


I understand Brother.  You're in denial.

Admitting you're afraid is that hardest part.

Hoplophobia can be overcome with therapy and determination.


We're all pulling for ya.


----------



## ElmerMudd (May 28, 2022)

Missourian said:


> I think...you should get a gun.
> 
> Get some training.
> 
> ...


Most mass murders showed pictures of their guns before going on their killing spree. To have guns is one thing, to have to tell the world about your guns through social media to eliminate an inadequacy you have is the sign of mental illness and makes you dangerous.


----------



## Missourian (May 28, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Most mass murders showed pictures of their guns before going on their killing spree. To have guns is one thing, to have to tell the world about your guns through social media to eliminate an inadequacy you have is the sign of mental illness and makes you dangerous.


Sorry...but this is just another manifestation of your phobia...and I can prove it ....

There are 125 million gun images on the internet.






						LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You
					

For all those people who find it more convenient to bother you with their question rather than to Google it for themselves.




					lmgtfy.app
				




Have there been 125 million mass shooters?


There are thousands of uploaded gun pictures ON THIS SITE...and the owner of this board owns a firearm forum.

So...point is...it's your fear that makes you believe this propoganda.

Get help.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jun 4, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Gun rights are needed for personal security, hunting, target sport and as a potential check on an over-reaching government but in today's world you will need more than guns.
> 
> But we have people in our society obsessed with guns. Their are fringe groups who define their manhood, personal safety, self-worth and protection from government over-reach strictly on guns. They seem to need guns more than air and water. They include street gangs, They include disenfranchised loners. They include left wing radicals wanting to over throw the government. They include right wing anti-government groups.
> 
> ...


Machine guns are necessary.

Machine guns or Valhalla!!!


----------



## scruffy (Jun 4, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Gun rights are needed for personal security, hunting, target sport and as a potential check on an over-reaching government but in today's world you will need more than guns.
> 
> But we have people in our society obsessed with guns. Their are fringe groups who define their manhood, personal safety, self-worth and protection from government over-reach strictly on guns. They seem to need guns more than air and water. They include street gangs, They include disenfranchised loners. They include left wing radicals wanting to over throw the government. They include right wing anti-government groups.
> 
> ...


Same old liberal bleating.

"We need laws!"

No, dumbshit. You don't need laws. Laws won't work anyway.

Hey - do you see any laws working?

(looks around)


----------



## scruffy (Jun 4, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> get help before you hurt someone. What you think is normal is not.


What a fucktard. ^^^

The gentlemen says he fired a few rifles in the army, and you tell him to get help?

What an asshole.

Not surprised, though 

Progtards, front and center


----------



## scruffy (Jun 4, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> Machine guns are necessary.
> 
> Machine guns or Valhalla!!!


Will you cut that out? You're making me laugh too much. I'm trying to drink a Coke goddammit.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jun 5, 2022)

scruffy said:


> Will you cut that out? You're making me laugh too much. I'm trying to drink a Coke goddammit.


Are you done with that coke yet?  

Good

Now repeat after me.

I pledge allegiance, to the people getting machine gun, in the United States of America, and to the republic which we save, one civilian army, under Thor, killing commies, with FMJs and 300-round belts for all.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 5, 2022)

1srelluc said:


> I bought three this week.
> 
> So far.
> 
> ...


The Ruger Target Pistol should be a tack driver. They are very accurate handguns. Cleaning them can be tricky. They come apart easily but are tricky to get back together. 

You may well know the secrets to reassembling a Ruger Target Pistol but if not and for those who don’t this video works great.


----------



## 1srelluc (Jun 5, 2022)

Batcat said:


> The Ruger Target Pistol should be a tack driver. They are very accurate handguns. Cleaning them can be tricky. They come apart easily but are tricky to get back together.
> 
> You may well know the secrets to reassembling a Ruger Target Pistol but if not and for those who don’t this video works great.


Yeah, I have three Standards/MK I pistols and I've cut the cussing to a minimum. 

LOL....The newer MK IV was developed for the mechanically disadvantaged.


----------



## scruffy (Jun 5, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> Are you done with that coke yet?
> 
> Good
> 
> ...


I just need one shot, that's all.

I'm very happy with a computer controlled M82 and a shorty for close range


----------



## Baron Von Murderpaws (Jul 7, 2022)




----------



## Batcat (Jul 7, 2022)

1srelluc said:


> I bought three this week.
> 
> So far.
> 
> ...


The Ruger Target Pistol should prove very accurate. I have owned several over the years.


----------



## Batcat (Jul 7, 2022)

Circe said:


> Most people "obsessed" with guns are just collecting them --- they've got money, why not?
> 
> Shoooooooo --- as my husband said yesterday, we could invade Delaware!
> 
> Joking, joking.


If you know what you are doing, firearms can be a great investment. 

Over 50 years I have accumulated a small collection of firearms, mainly revolvers. I was not looking at them as an investment since all were well used on a pistol range for target shooting. 

Target shooting can be a great hobby (if ammo is available or components for reloading).


----------



## Batcat (Jul 7, 2022)

Quasar44 said:


> Time for guns to go


If you think the bad guys will turn their firearms in, you are a fool.

The bad guys are all for gun control. It would make their work environment much safer. They could invade an honest person’s home and not have to worry about encountering an armed homeowner. The crime rate would skyrocket As would the homicide rate. 

Let’s look at what happened in Brazil. 









						Brazil Loosens Gun Laws, Murder Rate Falls to 14-Year Low
					

Liberals shocked....




					bongino.com
				




***snip***

_Already one of the most violent countries in the world, NPR predicted that Brazil's murder rate "could get even worse." The Global Observatory framed the change with mockery: "Brazil, With Most Homicides in the World, Moves to Loosen Gun Laws," and explained that most people opposed loosening gun laws. Germany's GW explained that the policy defied all common sense and that a rise in fatalities was likely. 

Bolsonaro made it much easier to own guns by dramatically reinterpreting the federal requirement that says gun permit applicants needed to go to federal police to prove they have an "effective necessity" for a gun. He also extended gun licenses from 5 to 10 years, and increased the maximum amount of guns one can own per household. The number of licensed firearm owners increased from about 330,000 when he took office to over 730,000 when the changes began taking effect in 2019.

In total, Bolsonaro made 32 changes to ease his nation's gun laws, including making it easier to carry concealed handguns in public.  

According to John Lott in the Wall Street Journal:
In 2018, the year before Jair Bolsonaro  became president, Brazil had one of the highest homicide rates among developed countries: 27.8 per 100,000 people, compared with 5 per 100,000 in the U.S. Mr. Bolsonaro’s solution: “Give guns to good people. Let people have guns so that they have the chance to defend themselves.”
…

In three years under Mr. Bolsonaro, the homicide rate has fallen 34%, to 18.5 per 100,000._


----------



## Batcat (Jul 7, 2022)

1srelluc said:


> Yeah, I have three Standards/MK I pistols and I've cut the cussing to a minimum.
> 
> LOL....The newer MK IV was developed for the mechanically disadvantaged.


I have considered buying the newest model just for that reason. 

However I have also found that I can put a lot of rounds through my Ruger Target pistol and just run a patch down the barrel, keep the chamber clean and the accuracy doesn’t suffer. 

I remember talking to a gunsmith one time and asking him how often he cleaned his .45 auto. He said, “I clean it when it quits working.” I don’t go that long. 

All my other guns get cleaned every time I shoot them.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 7, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Gun rights are needed for personal security, hunting, target sport and as a potential check on an over-reaching government but in today's world you will need more than guns.
> 
> But we have people in our society obsessed with guns. Their are fringe groups who define their manhood, personal safety, self-worth and protection from government over-reach strictly on guns. They seem to need guns more than air and water. They include street gangs, They include disenfranchised loners. They include left wing radicals wanting to over throw the government. They include right wing anti-government groups.
> 
> ...


Oh, this shit again.


Define "obsession."


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 7, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Gun rights are needed for personal security, hunting, target sport and as a potential check on an over-reaching government but in today's world you will need more than guns.
> 
> But we have people in our society obsessed with guns. Their are fringe groups who define their manhood, personal safety, self-worth and protection from government over-reach strictly on guns. They seem to need guns more than air and water. They include street gangs, They include disenfranchised loners. They include left wing radicals wanting to over throw the government. They include right wing anti-government groups.
> 
> ...


Numbnuts fuck off


----------



## Orangecat (Jul 7, 2022)

1srelluc said:


> 1971 Ruger MK I Target pistol.
> 
> View attachment 650655


----------



## Batcat (Jul 7, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Real world has shown us was is too little. 90% of the US want universal background checks. Why not. It will stop all but it will stop some, maybe most. Something has to be done. Thoughts and prayers are not working.


I rarely sell my firearms. The reason is I want to be damn sure I don’t sell a weapon to someone who shouldn’t own one.

I have several requirements for a buyer. 

1) He must have a valid Florida Concealed Weapons permit. That way I know he has had a background check. 

2) I have to actually know the person. 

3) I prefer to sell my firearms to people that I have shot with on a target range. That way I know they handle firearms safely. 

The last firearms I sold were sixteen years ago. I was retiring and moving. I sold several handguns to a co-worker I used to shoot with at a pistol range. Of course he had a Florida Concealed Weapons permit.


----------



## Circe (Jul 7, 2022)

Batcat said:


> If you know what you are doing, firearms can be a great investment.
> 
> Over 50 years I have accumulated a small collection of firearms, mainly revolvers. I was not looking at them as an investment since all were well used on a pistol range for target shooting.
> 
> Target shooting can be a great hobby (if ammo is available or components for reloading).


Thanks for the advice, actually ---- I need to keep the monetary worth in mind should I at some point have to deal with the gun collection issue.


----------



## SassyIrishLass (Jul 7, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Gun rights are needed for personal security, hunting, target sport and as a potential check on an over-reaching government but in today's world you will need more than guns.
> 
> But we have people in our society obsessed with guns. Their are fringe groups who define their manhood, personal safety, self-worth and protection from government over-reach strictly on guns. They seem to need guns more than air and water. They include street gangs, They include disenfranchised loners. They include left wing radicals wanting to over throw the government. They include right wing anti-government groups.
> 
> ...



New law: If you're obsessed with guns stay away from Elmer


----------



## 1srelluc (Jul 7, 2022)

Batcat said:


> I have considered buying the newest model just for that reason.
> 
> However I have also found that I can put a lot of rounds through my Ruger Target pistol and just run a patch down the barrel, keep the chamber clean and the accuracy doesn’t suffer.
> 
> ...


LOL.....In my early teens I bought a Ruger Standard 4 5/8" off one of my dad's hunting buddies and other than wiping it down when it got wet I don't ever remember cleaning it till I gave it to my nephew about 30 years later. It did not look the best but he still shoots it. 

I toted it around hither and yon in a surplus GI M1911 holster I got at the military surplus store that was in town at the time. If you removed the wood insert inside the holster a extra Ruger mag fits in the space perfectly.


----------



## hadit (Jul 7, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> I agree. And I want to work with other sane people for common sense regulations and we will take it from there.


We already have thousands that are routinely ignored. How many more will you need?


----------



## hadit (Jul 7, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> You should be working for common sense solutions that will include common sense regulations.
> You are posting like the crazy mass killers. Where do you think they get it from.
> Guns are a tool not a badge.
> Too many dumbass adults are showing kids that guns will make the strong, make them tough, will take care of the people that cross them.
> ...


We already have thousands of gun laws on the books. How many more will you need? Just one more, than one more after that, and so on into infinity?


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 7, 2022)

Batcat said:


> I rarely sell my firearms. The reason is I want to be damn sure I don’t sell a weapon to someone who shouldn’t own one.
> 
> I have several requirements for a buyer.
> 
> ...


See folks.  When you sell your own firearms, you can be even more selective and restrictive.  Why would we want to stop that?  That is perfectly within Batcat's right.


----------



## Batcat (Jul 7, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> See folks.  When you sell your own firearms, you can be even more selective and restrictive.  Why would we want to stop that?  That is perfectly within Batcat's right.


I should also add that I have often traded in a used firearm for a new one at a gun store. That way I know the buyer of my used firearm will still have to pass a background check. 

I generally keep accurate firearms I like. I once traded an extremely accurate Dan Wesson .357 revolver for a compound bow at a sports store. I suck at bow shooting and I still miss that Dan Wesson.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 7, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Dan Wesson .357 revolver


I read about those but have never shot one.  Don't they have a modular barrel system (where you can change barrels to longer or shorter depending on application)?


----------



## Batcat (Jul 7, 2022)

1srelluc said:


> LOL.....In my early teens I bought a Ruger Standard 4 5/8" off one of my dad's hunting buddies and other than wiping it down when it got wet I don't ever remember cleaning it till I gave it to my nephew about 30 years later. It did not look the best but he still shoots it.
> 
> I toted it around hither and yon in a surplus GI M1911 holster I got at the military surplus store that was in town at the time. If you removed the wood insert inside the holster a extra Ruger mag fits in the space perfectly.


I used to disassemble and clean my Ruger Target pistols about once a year. I would warm up by shooting 50 rounds through the weapon every time I went to the range before shooting my other handguns. I estimate I used to go shooting 50 times a year minimum so that means I would put at least 2500 rounds through the Ruger before a thorough cleaning. After every range session I would run a patch down the barrel and swab the firing chamber and the feeding ramp.


----------



## Batcat (Jul 7, 2022)

Circe said:


> Thanks for the advice, actually ---- I need to keep the monetary worth in mind should I at some point have to deal with the gun collection issue.


Back in the 1970 time frame I had a chance to buy two sequentially numbered .44 Auto Mag pistols. The two would have cost me around $500. If I would have put both in a safety deposit box and never fired them they would be worth a small fortune today.

I looked up the price of a used .44 Auto Mag pistol in very good condition and it sold for $3,750.

Unfortunately I was married and my wife at the time would have likely divorced me if I would have bought those two pistols.

As I look back on it today, I should have bought the pistols. I would have saved myself a lot of grief.


----------



## ElmerMudd (Jul 7, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Numbnuts fuck off


I understand your angry reply, the truth hurts


----------



## AZrailwhale (Jul 7, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Regulations minimize infractions they do not eliminate them. Try taking all speed limits off highways and see what happens.


What will happen is that ninety percent of people will drive at the safe maximum speed, seven to nine will drive below that and one to there will exceed it.  That was the experience on the autobahn in Germany that until recently had no speed limits.


----------



## ElmerMudd (Jul 7, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Back in the 1970 time frame I had a chance to buy two sequentially numbered .44 Auto Mag pistols. The two would have cost me around $500. If I would have put both in a safety deposit box and never fired them they would be worth a small fortune today.
> 
> I looked up the price of a used .44 Auto Mag pistol in very good condition and it sold for $3,750.
> 
> ...


It is or was unfortunate you are or were married, FOR YOUR WIFE.


----------



## ElmerMudd (Jul 7, 2022)

Batcat said:


> I used to disassemble and clean my Ruger Target pistols about once a year. I would warm up by shooting 50 rounds through the weapon every time I went to the range before shooting my other handguns. I estimate I used to go shooting 50 times a year minimum so that means I would put at least 2500 rounds through the Ruger before a thorough cleaning. After every range session I would run a patch down the barrel and swab the firing chamber and the feeding ramp.


Men whose dicks don't work, shoot and clean guns to make up for it.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 7, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> I understand your angry reply, the truth hurts


I understand that you're a numbnuts discussion over.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Jul 7, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Real world has shown us was is too little. 90% of the US want universal background checks. Why not. It will stop all but it will stop some, maybe most. Something has to be done. Thoughts and prayers are not working.


We essentially have universal background checks. The only times there aren’t background checks are in person to person sales, bequeaths from a dead relative or illegal sales.  The first two are a tiny percentage of firearms transfers and the people involved in the third are already breaking a bunch of laws so they aren’t going to comply.


----------



## martybegan (Jul 7, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> What will happen is that ninety percent of people will drive at the safe maximum speed, seven to nine will drive below that and one to there will exceed it.  That was the experience on the autobahn in Germany that until recently had no speed limits.



And the biggest danger on most highways isn't the speeders, it's the speeder/weavers that cause accidents.


----------



## ElmerMudd (Jul 7, 2022)

LAUGHatLEFTISTS said:


> Try to absorb this comment without the influence of feelings.
> Politicians(government) will never be able to protect you and yours. The only one that can do that is you.


I agree with that. With all the crazies out there, I do not need a gun to protect myself and family. I understand people who feel they need a gun  or two to protect themselves.
What I do not get are the crazies that want dozens of guns, semi-automatic weapons, large capacity magazines and are threatened by background checks,
They are paranoid cowards. They can buy all of the guns they can and they will still be paranoid cowards. They create their own reality.


----------



## Stryder50 (Jul 7, 2022)

Quasar44 said:


> Time for guns to go


I'm 70+ years old and no longer have the speed, agility, and strength I had 30-40 years ago to engage in 'kung fu' with any criminal/thug whom attempts to harm me, those with me, or engage in any other crime against me/us.

In my lifetime I have seen too many a "street fight" where once the victim(s) are down and on the ground, the kicking and stomping, often of the head, begins.  If lucky, the victim(s) will live, but often with injuries, some lifelong, if not out right killed by feet and fists, etc.

I consider any confrontation that threatens or could lead to physical assault and harm to be a potential "Life and/or Death" encounter.

Hence I have a Concealed Pistol License (what my State issues) and will be packing a pistol (and likely a spare mag or two) in public.  I also usually carry pepper-spray(mace) as a first choice if the situation allows.

What I and many like myself would rather see is for you and all other "anti-gun" sorts whom wish to disarm we whom want to protect ourselves with "great equalizers", to start wearing large yellow ribbon armbands on one or both sleeves so that;

1) We law-abiding, legal firearm carriers will know not to use our firearms to protect you and your sorts from any criminal types whom might be attacking, or engaged in crimes against you. (After all, we risk legal and civil court hazard anytime we do such.)

2) Wearing the yellow ribbon will indicate to criminal sorts you are willing to be victim of their crimes and assaults, and don't wish for citizens to intervene on your behalf.  This will help the criminals and thugs in their legal defense and spare the rest of us as from complications of coming to your defense.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Jul 7, 2022)

whitehall said:


> Who gets to determine "obsession"? Does a target handgun and a hunting rifle rise to the level of obsession? How about a collection of firearms that are worth more than most pitiful roach infested liberal city apartments? Does membership in the NRA indicate obsession when half a dozen U.S. Presidents were members? What happens when the 1st Amendment becomes an obsession? Do we start investigating conservative Preachers who might not be on board with the current administration?


Many people are “obsessed” with hobbies.  I’ve known men who had hundreds of thousands of dollars that they spent on model railroading.  Ditto stamp collecting.  Until Kindle Prime came along, I averaged three to four hundred dollars a month in book sales.  When I raced sailboats, I spent Saturdays and Wednesday evenings racing, a couple of Sunday afternoons a month helping maintain and improve the boat.   I had at least a grand in my sailing bag between binoculars, portable VHF radio, self-inflating life vest, spare GPS, spare gloves, clothes and sunglasses and a few other things.  That was an obsession since I would have raced more if there were more races available.  When I had my own boat, I spent nearly two grand a month on it between slip fees, maintenence and improvements. I had a co-worker that was into cowboy shooting, he had two horses, a horse trailer, a RV and several guns just for his hobby, is that an obsession?


----------



## Stryder50 (Jul 7, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Men whose dicks don't work, shoot and clean guns to make up for it.


So same applies to women whom also don't have dicks but also "shoot and clean guns"?
They are making up for not having dicks?








						Ladies of Lead — About Us — Ladies Of Lead Group Therapy, LLC
					

Ladies of Lead is women training women in handgun safety and defense. Concealed Handgun License classes offered. Beginners welcome. Educational programs taught by certified National Rifle Association Instructors. NRA. Located in Oregon.




					lolgrouptherapy.squarespace.com
				





Please wear your yellow armband in public so we "dickless gun owners" will know not to use our firearms to protect your worthless arse!


----------



## Stryder50 (Jul 7, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Gun rights are needed for personal security, hunting, target sport and as a potential check on an over-reaching government but in today's world you will need more than guns.
> 
> But we have people in our society obsessed with guns. Their are fringe groups who define their manhood, personal safety, self-worth and protection from government over-reach strictly on guns. They seem to need guns more than air and water. They include street gangs, They include disenfranchised loners. They include left wing radicals wanting to over throw the government. They include right wing anti-government groups.
> 
> ...


And as we've seen in recent times with the riots, looting, and insurrections from the Left (AntiFa, some BLMers, etc. ~ CHAZ/CHOP/Etc.), we might also need firearms to protect from the lawless mobs.


----------



## Stryder50 (Jul 7, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Real world has shown us was is too little. 90% of the US want universal background checks. Why not. It will stop all but it will stop some, maybe most. Something has to be done. Thoughts and prayers are not working.


We already have such;
National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)​Problem is you "anti-gun nuts" tend to be ignorant of firearms and other related matters. Don't have half a clue what you are talking about.


----------



## Stryder50 (Jul 7, 2022)

blackhawk said:


> How many guns would one have to own to be considered obsessed with them? Who gets to determine that number and what would qualify them to make that determination?


How many fishing rods, reels, and tackle must one own to be considered obsessed with such?
How many golf clubs?
How many baseball bats and gloves?
How mnay sewing machines and fabric and patterns?
ETC ....


----------



## AZrailwhale (Jul 7, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Men whose dicks don't work, shoot and clean guns to make up for it.


All you have are childish insults.


----------



## Circe (Jul 7, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Back in the 1970 time frame I had a chance to buy two sequentially numbered .44 Auto Mag pistols. The two would have cost me around $500. If I would have put both in a safety deposit box and never fired them they would be worth a small fortune today.
> 
> I looked up the price of a used .44 Auto Mag pistol in very good condition and it sold for $3,750.
> 
> ...


Beautiful gun. Since the USSC spoke I have been looking at all gun pix with an eye to how well it would fit in my purse. 

The classes here in Maryland for concealed carry are already all filled up and closed: I knew that would happen. As soon as they take off any gun ban or threaten guns, the countermove is always huge. Tells us something. What it tells me is that no one any longer has faith that government can or will bother to protect the people. They are failing the most basic function of government, protection of the _res publica_ from crime and invasion. We know we will have to protect ourselves.


----------



## Circe (Jul 7, 2022)

Stryder50 said:


> How many fishing rods, reels, and tackle must one own to be considered obsessed with such?
> How many golf clubs?
> How many baseball bats and gloves?
> How mnay sewing machines and fabric and patterns?
> ETC ....


Wait. Wait. 

You aren't saying that someone with a roomful of yarn is obsessed, are you?

Oh. My. God.


----------



## Stryder50 (Jul 7, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Most mass murders showed pictures of their guns before going on their killing spree. To have guns is one thing, to have to tell the world about your guns through social media to eliminate an inadequacy you have is the sign of mental illness and makes you dangerous.


Most gang members do the same, and also kill more people with their shooting actions than the "mass murders".


----------



## AZrailwhale (Jul 7, 2022)

martybegan said:


> And the biggest danger on most highways isn't the speeders, it's the speeder/weavers that cause accidents.


Actually you are wrong, speeders and even weavers are paying attention to their driving.  It’s the idiots who drive along in a daze that cause accidents.  You hear statements like “oh I didn’t see him”, “I didn’t see his signal”, I didn’t know that motorcycle with the headlight on and the loud pipes was there” or the ever popular “he came out of nowhere” from the instigators of accidents all the time.


----------



## Batcat (Jul 7, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> I read about those but have never shot one.  Don't they have a modular barrel system (where you can change barrels to longer or shorter depending on application)?


Yes. You could interchange barrels on the Dan Wesson. I had 4”, 6” and an 8” barrels for mine.


----------



## Circe (Jul 7, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Most mass murders showed pictures of their guns before going on their killing spree.


True --- that does seem to be happening! If not always.   

However, we'd need a controlled study to tell whether that is meaningful. Lots of people may show off such a new acquisition without going out and shooting people, and some of the mass murderers, such as the guy who shot up the concert in Las Vegas, didn't show pix of his guns, and he had the highest count of all, I think.


----------



## Batcat (Jul 7, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> It is or was unfortunate you are or were married, FOR YOUR WIFE.


She would Agree with you.


----------



## martybegan (Jul 7, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Actually you are wrong, speeders and even weavers are paying attention to their driving.  It’s the idiots who drive along in a daze that cause accidents.  You hear statements like “oh I didn’t see him”, “I didn’t see his signal”, I didn’t know that motorcycle with the headlight on and the loud pipes was there” or the ever popular “he came out of nowhere” from the instigators of accidents all the time.



Those guys too, but usually those are brush and pull over accidents, a speed weaver can take out 5-6 cars at once, at high speed.


----------



## ElmerMudd (Jul 7, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> All you have are childish insults.


This is a childish insult, but it towards people I have no respect for and do not give a hoot.


----------



## Ralph Norton (Jul 7, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Men whose dicks don't work, shoot and clean guns to make up for it.


Men whose dicks don't work talk about other mens' dicks.
Or so I've heard.


----------



## ElmerMudd (Jul 7, 2022)

Stryder50 said:


> Most gang members do the same, and also kill more people with their shooting actions than the "mass murders".


Anyone who brags and intimidates about the many deadly guns they own, are dangerous. Most feel powerless and the gun is their power. That is the case for most gang members.


----------



## ElmerMudd (Jul 7, 2022)

Ralph Norton said:


> Men whose dicks don't work talk about other mens' dicks.
> Or so I've heard.


Men who dicks don't work and talk about other men's not working are much safer than men whose dicks don't work and go and shoot someone.
Talk is safer than guns in all situations.


----------



## martybegan (Jul 7, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Men who dicks don't work and talk about other men's not working are much safer than men whose dicks don't work and go and shoot someone.
> Talk is safer than guns in all situations.



So the guys storming Omaha Beach should have just talked to the Germans with the MG42's?

Blanket statements are often retarded.


----------



## Batcat (Jul 7, 2022)

Circe said:


> Beautiful gun. Since the USSC spoke I have been looking at all gun pix with an eye to how well it would fit in my purse.
> 
> The classes here in Maryland for concealed carry are already all filled up and closed: I knew that would happen. As soon as they take off any gun ban or threaten guns, the countermove is always huge. Tells us something. What it tells me is that no one any longer has faith that government can or will bother to protect the people. They are failing the most basic function of government, protection of the _res publica_ from crime and invasion. We know we will have to protect ourselves.


In today’s world the police are turning reactive not proactive. They often arrive at the crime scene just in time to put out crime scene tape and interview the witnesses.

I can’t blame them. If they make a mistake and kill an unarmed black man they may end up in prison and if they hesitate and the black man is really armed they may end up in the hospital or six feet under.

Often in a riot they end up dodging bricks, Molotov cocktails, fireworks, green lasers and sometimes bullets.

In the big blue cities they often arrest someone and he walks away scot-free without even having to post bail.

If I was a young man I would rather try to make a career flipping burgers than being a cop.

As a citizen you basically are responsible for your own protection.  That‘s not really anything new. 









						Do the Police Have an Obligation to Protect You? - FindLaw
					

FindLaw examines what, if any, legal obligations police have to protect the public that they "protect and serve."




					www.findlaw.com
				




Take a good self defense course and learn how to handle a hand gun and legally carry one if and when you can. Chances are you never will have to use what you learned in the self defense class or pull your firearm to stop an attack. However, you will likely be glad you were prepared if the shit ever does hit the fan.


----------



## Whodatsaywhodat. (Jul 7, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Gun rights are needed for personal security, hunting, target sport and as a potential check on an over-reaching government but in today's world you will need more than guns.
> 
> But we have people in our society obsessed with guns. Their are fringe groups who define their manhood, personal safety, self-worth and protection from government over-reach strictly on guns. They seem to need guns more than air and water. They include street gangs, They include disenfranchised loners. They include left wing radicals wanting to over throw the government. They include right wing anti-government groups.
> 
> ...


Shut up . Jump on the boat with Mike Moore.  Good riddance.


----------



## 1srelluc (Jul 7, 2022)

Batcat said:


> I used to disassemble and clean my Ruger Target pistols about once a year. I would warm up by shooting 50 rounds through the weapon every time I went to the range before shooting my other handguns. I estimate I used to go shooting 50 times a year minimum so that means I would put at least 2500 rounds through the Ruger before a thorough cleaning. After every range session I would run a patch down the barrel and swab the firing chamber and the feeding ramp.


It's just goes to show how well built they were. Minimum cleaning to keep rust at bay and they still shoot just fine. 

I have never been a big fan of over-cleaning a .22's bore, they simply don't require it once the bore is seasoned.

Even my .22 match rifle bores don't get cleaned very much after the initial tear down. Maybe every 300 rounds or so.


----------



## 1srelluc (Jul 7, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Yes. You could interchange barrels on the Dan Wesson. I had 4”, 6” and an 8” barrels for mine.


Yep, I had one in .22LR.

You could get a 2.5" barrel in the centerfire packages.

LOL.....I always chuckled at the name "Pistol Pack" given to the _revolver_ packages.


----------



## Batcat (Jul 7, 2022)

Circe said:


> Beautiful gun. Since the USSC spoke I have been looking at all gun pix with an eye to how well it would fit in my purse.
> 
> The classes here in Maryland for concealed carry are already all filled up and closed: I knew that would happen. As soon as they take off any gun ban or threaten guns, the countermove is always huge. Tells us something. What it tells me is that no one any longer has faith that government can or will bother to protect the people. They are failing the most basic function of government, protection of the _res publica_ from crime and invasion. We know we will have to protect ourselves.


Look up concealed carry purses. You can carry a large pistol or revolver easily in one. I personally like revolvers for concealed carry. More reliable than pistols and easy to use.  In an emergency you just point and pull the trigger. No safety to remember to disengage.


----------



## Batcat (Jul 7, 2022)

1srelluc said:


> Yep, I had one in .22LR.
> 
> You could get a 2.5" barrel in the centerfire packages.
> 
> LOL.....I always chuckled at the name "Pistol Pack" given to the _revolver_ packages.


I mostly used the 6” barrel or the 8” barrel for target shooting. 

I remember the Pistol Pack. It’s a shame they stopped making revolvers. I could be wrong but I believe they now make 1911 45 auto clones.


----------



## Failzero (Jul 7, 2022)

Men collect shit .


----------



## Circe (Jul 7, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Look up concealed carry purses. You can carry a large pistol or revolver easily in one. I personally like revolvers for concealed carry. More reliable than pistols and easy to use.  In an emergency you just point and pull the trigger. No safety to remember to disengage.
> 
> 
> View attachment 667429
> View attachment 667432


Who knew there were such things? Thanks again, Batcat. I had no idea.

I would take your advice about the revolver because I didn't take that kind of advice last time. I went to the gunshop and decided I would buy a little semi-automatic when No. 1, the anti-gun Dem ran off, and the guys there advised a revolver also. Humph! said I to self, MEN!!!

But it never worked well (my now husband eventually got it repaired) and I had to keep saying, "Red means ready to fire" and finally he just bought me a small revolver and really, now that I think of it, that gun is perfectly satisfactory if not glamorous if I do go to concealed carry.

So I'm feeling a little more humble about how much I don't know about this stuff and more receptive about taking advice.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 7, 2022)

Circe said:


> Beautiful gun. Since the USSC spoke I have been looking at all gun pix with an eye to how well it would fit in my purse.
> 
> The classes here in Maryland for concealed carry are already all filled up and closed: I knew that would happen. As soon as they take off any gun ban or threaten guns, the countermove is always huge. Tells us something. What it tells me is that no one any longer has faith that government can or will bother to protect the people. They are failing the most basic function of government, protection of the _res publica_ from crime and invasion. We know we will have to protect ourselves.




Purse carry is not the wisest choice........but ask your instructors about it....


----------



## Stryder50 (Jul 7, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Anyone who brags and intimidates about the many deadly guns they own, are dangerous. Most feel powerless and the gun is their power. That is the case for most gang members.


Sorry lad, but unless you hold the same claim for anyone whom has a hobby and "brags" about their "collection", you remain clueless and out of touch with reality.

Being an armed citizen has less to do with "feel powerless" and more to do with logical basics of self-protection in an occasional hostile world/society.

First clue is your total ignorance about how many others have a firearm for protection and to "level the odds" against those whom might be larger, stronger, and more (criminally) violent/aggressive to what they perceive as helpless victims.

Would you object to your mother, sister, wife, or other woman in your life being armed to deal with attackers?

"An armed society is a polite society" - Robert A. Heinlein


----------



## Stryder50 (Jul 7, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Purse carry is not the wisest choice........but ask your instructors about it....


Right.

For women, an inside waistband if wearing pants, or inside of thigh if wearing a skirt are more practical and useful considerations.

You don't want to give a purse snatcher your firearm along with your ID, cash, credit cards, keys, etc.


----------



## Circe (Jul 7, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Purse carry is not the wisest choice........but ask your instructors about it....


Because someone can grab the purse. I don't even know how legal that is. Doesn't matter: all the men around here are trying to sign up: my turn for a class won't come for a couple of years the way things are going. What a bonanza for the gun shops, but hiring will be a problem for them.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 7, 2022)

Circe said:


> Because someone can grab the purse. I don't even know how legal that is. Doesn't matter: all the men around here are trying to sign up: my turn for a class won't come for a couple of years the way things are going. What a bonanza for the gun shops, but hiring will be a problem for them.




You would be surprised......once they are allowed to teach, more people will teach the classes.......the demand will be met...


----------



## Circe (Jul 7, 2022)

Stryder50 said:


> "An armed society is a polite society" - Robert A. Heinlein


_Beyond These Horizons. _ Most people haven't read that one, but it's well worth reading, as you probably know, very thoughtful about a society in which everyone goes armed unless they explicitly decline (ill health, mothers, etc.).


----------



## Stryder50 (Jul 7, 2022)

Circe said:


> _Beyond These Horizons. _ Most people haven't read that one, but it's well worth reading, as you probably know, very thoughtful about a society in which everyone goes armed unless they explicitly decline (ill health, mothers, etc.).


I have, and it's what was on my mind with that post.
Thanks!


----------



## Batcat (Jul 7, 2022)

Circe said:


> Who knew there were such things? Thanks again, Batcat. I had no idea.
> 
> I would take your advice about the revolver because I didn't take that kind of advice last time. I went to the gunshop and decided I would buy a little semi-automatic when No. 1, the anti-gun Dem ran off, and the guys there advised a revolver also. Humph! said I to self, MEN!!!
> 
> ...


The drawback of a revolver is they usually hold only five or six rounds and they are harder to reload than a pistol where you just swap magazines. If you feel you may need more than six rounds you carry what is called a Mexican reload. You pack two revolvers and when you run the first dry, you grab the second. 

I carry a .38 S&W Model 642 snub nosed revolver known as a “belly gun.” One advantage of a revolver is you can jam it into someone’s belly and it will still fire when a pistol will not as the slide moves slightly back and the pistol is “out of battery.” 






The S&W Model 642 is a very light weapon which makes it an excellent pocket pistol. Unfortunately the light weight gives the weapon a stiff recoil. Most people find it is not “fun” to practice with. Some people will say it is not a good beginner‘s gun. 

If you are carrying in a purse or a holster two excellent choices are 
the 6 shot S&W Model 66.





Or the smaller 5 shot Model 60. 




Both can use either .38 or .357 Magnum ammo. 

If possible it is always a good idea to try different handguns to see which you like.


----------



## Batcat (Jul 7, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Men whose dicks don't work, shoot and clean guns to make up for it.


How did you discover this. Did you take a survey or did you just talk with panty waisted liberals who are terrified of firearms and the people who own them. Panty waisted liberals have an odd fascination with penis size and function. They will also tell you that men with short dicks that don’t work drive big pickup trucks or muscle cars or join the Marines.


----------



## Circe (Jul 7, 2022)

Batcat said:


> The drawback of a revolver is they usually hold only five or six rounds and they are harder to reload than a pistol where you just swap magazines. If you feel you may need more than six rounds you carry what is called a Mexican reload. You pack two revolvers and when you run the first dry, you grab the second.
> 
> I carry a .38 S&W Model 642 snub nosed revolver known as a “belly gun.” One advantage of a revolver is you can jam it into someone’s belly and it will still fire when a pistol will not as the slide moves slightly back and the pistol is “out of battery.”
> 
> ...


I think I will just print out your post, pix and all. I love that little snubnose -- the one I have IS a snubnose, I don't know the details, aaaarrrrrgh, but I keep it where I know where it is, loaded, in my wardrobe.

If you think I'm attaching too much interest to these posts, frankly, things just got seriously weird in Maryland since Hogan decided it would be good for his (ha-ha, as if) presidential run to let us go free, since the crime going on from, ah, "people from Baltimore" is out of control.  So we do have to think about this.









						Gun shops, Maryland State Police seeing surge in those seeking wear-and-carry permits
					

Just one day after Gov. Larry Hogan made it easier to obtain a handgun wear-and-carry permit in Maryland, FreeState Gun Range said the phone lines are flooded.




					wjla.com
				



MIDDLE RIVER, Md. (WBFF) — Just one day after Gov. Larry Hogan made it easier to obtain a handgun wear-and-carry permit in Maryland, FreeState Gun Range said their phone lines are flooded.

"It’s just been off the hook, so to speak," said Bryan Fletcher, the range's training department director.

Fletcher said, *in the past 24 hours, they’ve accepted more than 500 reservations* for their wear-and-carry classes alone, booking them out clear through the end of the month.


----------



## Batcat (Jul 7, 2022)

Circe said:


> I think I will just print out your post, pix and all. I love that little snubnose -- the one I have IS a snubnose, I don't know the details, aaaarrrrrgh, but I keep it where I know where it is, loaded, in my wardrobe.
> 
> If you think I'm attaching too much interest to these posts, frankly, things just got seriously weird in Maryland since Hogan decided it would be good for his (ha-ha, as if) presidential run to let us go free, since the crime going on from, ah, "people from Baltimore" is out of control.  So we do have to think about this.
> 
> ...


I do recommend you go to a good gun safety and concealed carry class. 

In Florida I have known a number of people who hired a one on one instructor. It might be expensive but an good instructor can teach you a lot quickly about accurate shooting. In passing, women are easier to train then men. It’s also good to have a instructor who will explain when you can use lethal force. 

I watched instructors qualify a class on the range and they would just set the full sized silhouette target about seven years out and have each student fire a few rounds at the target. If they could hit the target they passed. 

One of my co-workers decided to go with a one on one instructor. On the range he shot at a number of distances from a couple of feet to 25 yards away. The instrujctor was an ex-police chief of Cincinnati, Ohio. 

Men think that after a lifetime of watching movies they already know all the basics on how to shoot. Women actually listen and learn.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 7, 2022)

Circe said:


> I think I will just print out your post, pix and all. I love that little snubnose -- the one I have IS a snubnose, I don't know the details, aaaarrrrrgh, but I keep it where I know where it is, loaded, in my wardrobe.
> 
> If you think I'm attaching too much interest to these posts, frankly, things just got seriously weird in Maryland since Hogan decided it would be good for his (ha-ha, as if) presidential run to let us go free, since the crime going on from, ah, "people from Baltimore" is out of control.  So we do have to think about this.
> 
> ...




Yeah...get as much training as you can afford.......


----------



## Failzero (Jul 7, 2022)

Batcat said:


> I do recommend you go to a good gun safety and concealed carry class.
> 
> In Florida I have known a number of people who hired a one on one instructor. It might be expensive but an good instructor can teach you a lot quickly about accurate shooting. In passing, women are easier to train then men. It’s also good to have a instructor who will explain when you can use lethal force.
> 
> ...


In California we must take 10 hours of Classroom and add hours of Range time where we must qualify with each Firearm on our CCW .


----------



## Failzero (Jul 7, 2022)

My Tactical Carbine Fighting Classes ( Level 1 & Level 2 ) had almost 500 rounds needed for each 10 hour Class and I went through level 2 with 2 Shasta County Sheriffs SWAT guys .


----------



## woodwork201 (Jul 7, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Gun rights are needed for personal security, hunting, target sport and as a potential check on an over-reaching government but in today's world you will need more than guns.
> 
> But we have people in our society obsessed with guns. Their are fringe groups who define their manhood, personal safety, self-worth and protection from government over-reach strictly on guns. They seem to need guns more than air and water. They include street gangs, They include disenfranchised loners. They include left wing radicals wanting to over throw the government. They include right wing anti-government groups.
> 
> ...


There's no such thing as a right-wing anti-government group.  Did you see right wing groups in front of the homes of Supreme Court members?  Have you seen right-wing groups arrested for attempted assassination?    The very nature of right-wing is to defend the Constitution, not to destroy it.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jul 7, 2022)

Failzero said:


> In California we must take 10 hours of Classroom and add hours of Range time where we must qualify with each Firearm on our CCW .


Do they require training and a test in order to vote?


----------



## ElmerMudd (Jul 8, 2022)

Stryder50 said:


> Sorry lad, but unless you hold the same claim for anyone whom has a hobby and "brags" about their "collection", you remain clueless and out of touch with reality.
> 
> Being an armed citizen has less to do with "feel powerless" and more to do with logical basics of self-protection in an occasional hostile world/society.
> 
> ...


I am not armed and I feel very safe. Sorry you need a gun or guns to feel safe.


----------



## ElmerMudd (Jul 8, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> There's no such thing as a right-wing anti-government group.  Did you see right wing groups in front of the homes of Supreme Court members?  Have you seen right-wing groups arrested for attempted assassination?    The very nature of right-wing is to defend the Constitution, not to destroy it.


saw them at the Capitol on Jan 6


----------



## Quasar44 (Jul 8, 2022)

Quasar44 said:


> Time for guns to go


That post is archaic


----------



## westwall (Jul 8, 2022)

Batcat said:


> I mostly used the 6” barrel or the 8” barrel for target shooting.
> 
> I remember the Pistol Pack. It’s a shame they stopped making revolvers. I could be wrong but I believe they now make 1911 45 auto clones.
> 
> View attachment 667440





Yes, very high quality ones.  Retail is around 2600.


----------



## westwall (Jul 8, 2022)

Quasar44 said:


> That post is archaic





That post is stupid.


----------



## Quasar44 (Jul 8, 2022)

westwall said:


> That post is stupid.


Yes , I updated it to say that guns are cool


----------



## westwall (Jul 8, 2022)

Quasar44 said:


> Yes , I updated it to say that guns are cool





Guns are tools.  They are no better, or worse, than the person using them.


----------



## Quasar44 (Jul 8, 2022)

westwall said:


> Guns are tools.  They are no better, or worse, than the person using them.


ARs should have never been allowed to the public.


----------



## Quasar44 (Jul 8, 2022)

All you need is a good .38 Revolver


----------



## westwall (Jul 8, 2022)

Quasar44 said:


> ARs should have never been allowed to the public.





Wrong.  Bad people will get them no matter what.  It is asinine to prevent good people from being equally armed.


----------



## westwall (Jul 8, 2022)

Quasar44 said:


> All you need is a good .38 Revolver





Home invasion with four perps.

Care to try your luck, rambo?


----------



## Quasar44 (Jul 8, 2022)

westwall said:


> Home invasion with four perps.
> 
> Care to try your luck, rambo?


What about a shotgun??


----------



## Batcat (Jul 8, 2022)

Quasar44 said:


> ARs should have never been allowed to the public.


Here in Florida they make excellent weapons with which to hunt feral hogs. 

Feral hogs are not native to America, reproduce at an amazing rate and do a lot of damage to the environment. They also are considered to be dangerous game.


----------



## Batcat (Jul 8, 2022)

Failzero said:


> In California we must take 10 hours of Classroom and add hours of Range time where we must qualify with each Firearm on our CCW .


Sounds like California is trying to discourage you from getting a CCW. Too much time and expense.


----------



## frigidweirdo (Jul 8, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Gun rights are needed for personal security, hunting, target sport and as a potential check on an over-reaching government but in today's world you will need more than guns.
> 
> But we have people in our society obsessed with guns. Their are fringe groups who define their manhood, personal safety, self-worth and protection from government over-reach strictly on guns. They seem to need guns more than air and water. They include street gangs, They include disenfranchised loners. They include left wing radicals wanting to over throw the government. They include right wing anti-government groups.
> 
> ...



Voting, and choosing a proper voting system are necessary for an over reaching government, but the US seems to have done okay without it (except for the fact that the US is a loony bin)


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jul 8, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> We need laws to protect us from those who are obsessed with guns and what they do with them


How do you do this w/o laying unnecessary and ioneffective restrictions o the right to keep and bear arms by the law abiding?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jul 8, 2022)

Quasar44 said:


> ARs should have never been allowed to the public.


Magazine-fed, semi-automatic rifles have been on the market since before 1910.
Given that:   Why?


----------



## Failzero (Jul 8, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Sounds like California is trying to discourage you from getting a CCW. Too much time and expense.


I got through it in 2011 ( 150.00 $ for Class ) ( 150.00 $ for Sheriff ) all renewals are 65.00$ every 2 years for Class and 47.00 $ for Sheriff


----------



## Batcat (Jul 8, 2022)

Here in Florida you only have to take one class for a Concealed Weapons Permit and if you were in the military you don’t even have to take a class. I really have no idea how much the class costs now. The cost of the license is in the link below. Approval is not require from the local sheriff. A Concealed Weapons Permit also allows you to carry other weapons concealed such as a knife (while in Florida). 









						Florida Concealed Carry [Updated: 6/29/2022]
					

Find answers to all of your Florida concealed carry and firearm law questions. How to get a Texas Concealed Weapon License and more.




					www.usacarry.com
				




Florida Concealed Carry Quick Stats:​
Permit/License: Florida Concealed Weapon License
Shall Issue to Residents and Non-residents
21 years of age minimum
Valid for 7 years
Initial Cost is $97
90-Day Processing Time
35 State Permits Honored
36 States Accept Florida*
State Population: 21,220,000
License Issued: 2,705,478
***snip***

How much does a Florida Concealed Weapon License cost?​The initial fee for a Florida Concealed Weapon License for residents and non-residents is $102 which includes a $42 fingerprint processing fee and a $60 initial license fee.
Renewals for residents cost $50 and for non-residents is $92 which includes a $42 fingerprint processing fee.
The cost is $15 to obtain a revised or duplicate copy of your Florida Concealed Weapon License.
There is no $42 fingerprint processing fee for Active Florida Law Enforcement Officers. If you are a Florida Law Enforcement Officer that has retired within a year, there are no initial fees. If you have been retired for more than one year, the initial fee is $72 which includes a $40 fingerprint processing fee and a $30 initial license fee. Renewals for all retired Florida Law Enforcement Officers cost $30.
There are no charges whatsoever for active Judges.
The initial and renewal fees for a Consular Security Official are $300.

***snip***

Military training does exempt you from the training requirements when applying for a Florida Concealed Weapon License. Active duty members can submit their Common Access Card or another form of official military identification with their applications. A copy of service members’ current orders will be accepted as proof of active duty status. Honorably discharged veterans can submit a copy of their DD 214 long form with their applications.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

Quasar44 said:


> ARs should have never been allowed to the public.



Why?


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

Quasar44 said:


> What about a shotgun??




Here.....a lesson....pay attention...


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Here.....a lesson....pay attention...


In most cases, an AR pistol or carbine in a major pistol caliber is a better choice for home defense than a shotgun.
Thus:


----------



## PoliticalChic (Jul 8, 2022)

Failzero said:


> In California we must take 10 hours of Classroom and add hours of Range time where we must qualify with each Firearm on our CCW .




Right after the Supreme Court decision came down, I called License Division and asked to  have my premise permit a CCW.

"Nope!"


Subsequently, the Democrats in Albany put out restrictions on 'sensitive places' where no guns allowed,....the list was basically anyplace an oxygen molecule might show up.


----------



## Failzero (Jul 8, 2022)

Quasar44 said:


> ARs should have never been allowed to the public.


Cowboy Guns ( Real Historic or Modern ) are for Elmer Fudds


----------



## Failzero (Jul 8, 2022)

PoliticalChic said:


> Right after the Supreme Court decision came down, I called License Division and asked to  have my premise permit a CCW.
> 
> "Nope!"
> 
> ...


For California CCW you start at the County Sheriffs office website


----------



## basquebromance (Jul 8, 2022)




----------



## ElmerMudd (Jul 8, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> How do you do this w/o laying unnecessary and ioneffective restrictions o the right to keep and bear arms by the law abiding?


That is the problem with every law. The law is to sanction bad actors, but can unintentionally affect people not intended for.
Guns are needed for protection and sport. The 2nd amendment has been curtailed so heavily there is no way does it provide a check on our government gone rogue.
Who is negatively effected and how for universal background checks. Limits on high capacity magazines. Limit semi-automatic long guns like machine guns are currently regulated


----------



## ElmerMudd (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Here.....a lesson....pay attention...


A semi-automatic weapon in the hands of novice will most likely cause more collateral damage than help.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jul 8, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Who is negatively effected and how for universal background checks. Limits on high capacity magazines. Limit semi-automatic long guns like machine guns are currently regulated


Law abiding gun owners.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jul 8, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Guns are needed for protection and sport. The 2nd amendment has been curtailed so heavily there is no way does it provide a check on our government gone rogue.


True.

Indeed, it was never the intent of the Framers of the Second Amendment that private armed citizens who are not members of a state recognized and authorized militia would ‘take up arms’ against a lawfully, constitutionally elected government reflecting the will of the people subjectively and incorrectly perceived to have become ‘tyrannical.’

The Framers did not amend the Constitution to authorize the destruction of the Republic they had just created.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jul 8, 2022)

ElmerMudd said:


> Who is negatively effected and how for universal background checks. Limits on high capacity magazines. Limit semi-automatic long guns like machine guns are currently regulated


No one is negatively affected by universal background checks, of course.

Being negatively affected by limits on high-capacity magazines and semi-automatic long guns depends on what is meant by ‘limits.’

Subjecting high-capacity magazines and semi-automatic rifles and carbines to the provisions of the NFA would be to designate them as being dangerous and unusual weapons, which clearly isn’t the case.


----------

