# How should the U.S. deal with illegal Immigration?



## Azrael (Mar 5, 2012)

So many people stream across our border illegally and our government struggles to do any thing about it.

So obviously it needs fixing.
What are some ideas you all have as to how they could fix it?

I think we should treat it the same way they do area 51, post signs in every language that state if you get within a certain distance you'll be shot.  Only an desperate idiot or a terrorist would try to cross with those signs up.  We could build sniper towers and post highly trained special opps to patrol our border.  I am not saying each and every person trying to cross would die, but if they didn't listen to reason they would get an arm or a leg blown off.


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## The Infidel (Mar 5, 2012)

*How should the U.S. deal with illegal Immigration?*

Start by enforcing the laws that ALREADY exist.


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## Azrael (Mar 5, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> *How should the U.S. deal with illegal Immigration?*
> 
> Start by enforcing the laws that ALREADY exist.



By what means should they be enforced?


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## The Infidel (Mar 5, 2012)

Azrael said:


> The Infidel said:
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Any more questions?


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## Unkotare (Mar 5, 2012)

Azrael said:


> So many people stream across our border illegally and our government struggles to do any thing about it.
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> So obviously it needs fixing.
> What are some ideas you all have as to how they could fix it?
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Yeah, ok. That's not going to happen, so do you have any serious ideas?


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## Epsilon Delta (Mar 5, 2012)

A couple of things: Heavily revamp surveillance, personnel, and other resources at the border (taking that away from the military budget to make it deficit neutral), give amnesty to the illegals already here and register them, expand temporary guest worker programs and in general just streamline and quicken the migration process: migrants are a huge economic plus and are one of the things that keep the US economy young and vibrant unlike the moribund demographics of Europe and Japan.


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## Unkotare (Mar 5, 2012)

Back to Jedi school, dope.


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## Big Black Dog (Mar 5, 2012)

I have a 3 point plan for getting illegal aliens out of the country.

Point 1.  If you are here illegally, you will be escorted to the border and told that you are here illegally and you must leave and not come back.  If you are caught again in this country illegally, it will be more difficult for you.

Point 2.  If you are found in this country a second time illegally, you will be escorted to the border and carried back across the border on a stretcher due to your injuries.  You will be warned that if you are found in this country illegally again, things will be more difficult for you.  You will be sternly warned to not come back.

Point 3.  If you are found in this country a 3rd time illegally, you will be escorted back across the border in a body bag.  You will be told "Rest in Peace".

I believe that this policy would work.


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## starcraftzzz (Mar 5, 2012)

Azrael said:


> So many people stream across our border illegally and our government struggles to do any thing about it.
> 
> So obviously it needs fixing.
> What are some ideas you all have as to how they could fix it?


What needs fixing? Why do you have a problem with people coming here to work and contribute to our economy?


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## Unkotare (Mar 5, 2012)

Big Black Dog said:


> I have a 3 point plan for getting illegal aliens out of the country.
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> Point 1.  If you are here illegally, you will be escorted to the border and told that you are here illegally and you must leave and not come back.  If you are caught again in this country illegally, it will be more difficult for you.
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Yeah, that's not gonna happen so do you have any serious ideas?


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## Unkotare (Mar 5, 2012)

starcraftzzz said:


> Azrael said:
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Coming here illegally? Yes, most Americans have a problem with that.


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## Douger (Mar 5, 2012)

Azrael said:


> So many people stream across our border illegally and our government struggles to do any thing about it.
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> So obviously it needs fixing.
> What are some ideas you all have as to how they could fix it?
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Simple. Paycheck stubs on a monthly basis. Amounts to state and /or federal tax/ SS. Cant provide ? Hasta luego.
You can't stay in the countries I live in without proper records. Simple.
I invested over 110 in Nicaragua, over 300 in Chile and over 1.6 in Costa Rica.
I'm not allowed to " WORK".. well...directing my own businesses... yeah.
Immigration is good... provided the incoming are a benefit rather than a burden.
Down here  "Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..."
Aint happenin'. This is the real world.


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## Ernie S. (Mar 5, 2012)

Azrael said:


> The Infidel said:
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By fining employers and passing Arizona/Alabama type laws in all 50 states.
No jobs and increased deportations would send illegals streaming towards the border.
Deport a half million without regard to felonies or family and most of the rest would follow on their own, or volunteer for deportation.


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## starcraftzzz (Mar 5, 2012)

Unkotare said:


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And so is jaywalking....


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## Unkotare (Mar 5, 2012)

starcraftzzz said:


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If it's not a concern to you that is just an indication of your own ignorance, and you are in a very small minority.


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## Ernie S. (Mar 5, 2012)

starcraftzzz said:


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Are you advocating running over illegals who cross in the middle of the block? I'm with you, brother.


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## starcraftzzz (Mar 5, 2012)

Unkotare said:


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I see so according to you me not wishing and wanting other people to be poor and have shitty lives is me being ignorant. 
I realize you are a conservative and therefor do not think but at least try


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Mar 5, 2012)

> How should the U.S. deal with illegal Immigration?
> So many people stream across our border illegally and our government struggles to do any thing about it.
> 
> So obviously it needs fixing.
> ...





> I have a 3 point plan for getting illegal aliens out of the country.
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> Point 1. If you are here illegally, you will be escorted to the border and told that you are here illegally and you must leave and not come back. If you are caught again in this country illegally, it will be more difficult for you.
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Violate the law and Constitution to address illegal immigration  good idea. 



> Simple. Paycheck stubs on a monthly basis. Amounts to state and /or federal tax/ SS. Cant provide ? Hasta luego.



How would you determine who is required to provide this information? To whom would this information be provided? Or can you tell an illegal on sight? 



> You can't stay in the countries I live in without proper records. Simple.



Unlike those countries, the United States has a Constitution. Simple.


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## Azrael (Mar 5, 2012)

starcraftzzz said:


> Azrael said:
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They should do it legally or not at all.

Because Illegals get paid less than Citizens they get more jobs than we do.
Making it harder for our people to find work.

No work = No money = No progress

My friend is 24 he looked for work every since he was old enough just this year he found a job and got hired.  The economy sucked every since Clinton left office.


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## JohnA (Mar 5, 2012)

Big Black Dog said:


> I have a 3 point plan for getting illegal aliens out of the country.
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> Point 1.  If you are here illegally, you will be escorted to the border and told that you are here illegally and you must leave and not come back.  If you are caught again in this country illegally, it will be more difficult for you.
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forget points 1&2 point 3 will do fine


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## Unkotare (Mar 5, 2012)

starcraftzzz said:


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Do you have any doors and windows on your house?


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## Ernie S. (Mar 5, 2012)

Unkotare said:


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Just a slit to pass in his tray but he's got lovely padding on the walls.


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## Againsheila (Mar 6, 2012)

Epsilon Delta said:


> A couple of things: Heavily revamp surveillance, personnel, and other resources at the border (taking that away from the military budget to make it deficit neutral), give amnesty to the illegals already here and register them, expand temporary guest worker programs and in general just streamline and quicken the migration process: migrants are a huge economic plus and are one of the things that keep the US economy young and vibrant unlike the moribund demographics of Europe and Japan.



Several times in the past we've given amnest to illegals already here.  You know what happened?  Yeah, MORE illegals streamed accross the border to get in on the next amnesty.  What do you call someone who does the same thing over and over again and expects different results?

Amnesty doesn't work.  Ship all illegal who are caught here back home.  Make e-verify mandatory.  Fine and jail their employers and their landlords and anyone providing them shelter.  Any illegal caught using someone's social security number should do prison time before they are shipped home.

Illegals take our jobs and keep our wages low.  They ship home as much of their pay as they can and they collect as much welfare as they can, they have a negative affect on the economy, not a possitive one.  

No guest workers unless there are no Americans looking for jobs.....

Giving amnesty to any illegal is a slap in the face to all the legal immigrant that followed our laws, got their background checks, their medical checks and sponsors to come here legally...it's even worse to the millions of people who've been denied entry into our country and never came illegally.  

You want the illegals to be legally, how about YOU sponsor a family to come here legally?  

BTW, Japan doesn't exactly take in immigrants...they have a lot of foreign workers...but you can't get into their country and become a Japanese citizen, they don't let you do that.  My brother was born there and he's not a Japanese citizen.  You actually have to be Japanese to be a Japanese citizen...shocking, isn't it?


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## Unkotare (Mar 6, 2012)

Againsheila said:


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> BTW, Japan doesn't exactly take in immigrants...they have a lot of foreign workers...but you can't get into their country and become a Japanese citizen, they don't let you do that.




Well, that's not exactly true, but it is rather difficult.


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## Zander (Mar 6, 2012)

Public hangings of illegal immigrants would be quite a deterrent....







This one drew a huge crowd!! Rainey Bathea was the last man hung in America...that was 1936.


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## IndependntLogic (Mar 6, 2012)

Azrael said:


> So many people stream across our border illegally and our government struggles to do any thing about it.
> 
> So obviously it needs fixing.
> What are some ideas you all have as to how they could fix it?
> ...



let them come. If they pass a background check for no criminal record (other than being here illegally, or using a SSN for employment purposes only) let them stay. I'm good with that.


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## Epsilon Delta (Mar 6, 2012)

Againsheila said:


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> ...



Yes, it has happened in the past - but hey, the US underwent a very strong period of high growth after that, drawing more in, something unlikely to happen again.  Besides, like I said before, high migration is both a symptom of a healthy economy as well as a driver of it. 

Sure, you argue that illegals drain public finances. That could be true, but does that outweight other benefits that they provide? If one believes in free market theory, the fact that there are people demanding this labor as well as providing it, voluntarily, would indicate that it is mutually beneficial trade: the basis of capitalism - indeed, free migration flows is part and parcel of a free market, just as capital flows are [and which most people do not complain about]. 

Not only this, but illegals do jobs that Americans won't do - at that wage. The lower cost of production inputs (in this case labor), in theory, should spur production of whichever industry was utilizing these lower cost resources. Furthermore, illegals are often poor, and the poor have a higher marginal propensity to consume - this means that they spend a proportionally larger part of their income on consumption (even if they are saving for remittances), which is taxed [indeed, one of the taxes that the poor must pay - since illegals are often poorer, they would likely not pay much in income or capital gains taxes, meaning they do not scheme the system as it would appear at first glance]. 

Lastly, there's remittances, which provide a more indirect bonus; kind of "free foreign aid" not paid by the state but with similar longer-term benefits inherent in helping poorer countries in the region - after all US companies sell many US-made products their goods in these markets . Indeed, Latin America imports proportionally more from the United States than from anywhere else, and maintains a high trade deficit with the US (US sells more products to us, than we sell to the US).      




> Amnesty doesn't work.  Ship all illegal who are caught here back home.  Make e-verify mandatory.  Fine and jail their employers and their landlords and anyone providing them shelter.  Any illegal caught using someone's social security number should do prison time before they are shipped home.



That's a little extreme.




> BTW, Japan doesn't exactly take in immigrants...they have a lot of foreign workers...but you can't get into their country and become a Japanese citizen, they don't let you do that.  My brother was born there and he's not a Japanese citizen.  You actually have to be Japanese to be a Japanese citizen...shocking, isn't it?



Yes, that is why Japan is currently shrinking in population, and why their age pyramid will suffocate their social security system in the coming decades. The shrinkage of Japan is one of that country's most serious long-term problems. Japan is losing around one million people a year despite having one of the highest life expectancies; a similar occurrence is happening in Russia and much of Europe. Some like the (US, Canada, Australia, and Britain) have maintained healthy replacement levels of population growth thanks to open immigration. Again, I have no way to say that immigration does not have any problems, but the effect is very mixed, and should theoretically be beneficial.


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## Unkotare (Mar 6, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


> Azrael said:
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Well, the rest of the citizens aren't "good with that." In fact, the country itself isn't "good with that."


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## Unkotare (Mar 6, 2012)

Epsilon Delta said:


> Not only this, but illegals do jobs that Americans won't do - at that wage. .






You don't even understand what you wrote there, do you? That's sad.


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## HomeInspect (Mar 6, 2012)

Unkotare said:


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Agreed Unkotare. What part of "illegal" is hard to understand, I say let the people who belive it's OK to just "be here" pay for those to "be here" The left wants the hispanic vote base, and they are playing the game. I live in the people's republic of Maryland, where we already give illegals drivers licenses and in state tuition for college. Now the mayor of Baltimore has told law enforcement that they can't even question a person's legal status, even when arrested for a crime.  makes me sick...
Mayor seeks to allay immigrant fears - baltimoresun.com


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## Epsilon Delta (Mar 6, 2012)

Unkotare said:


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Sounds a little unclear, maybe, but it's understandable. There is no doubt that the average American would do some back-breaking fruit-picking. But they won't do so at the wage that an illegal will. I write that because it's not entirely correct when people say they do "Americans won't do." They will do them, but only at a higher - and likely uncompetitive - wage. 

Feel free to respond to the rest of my post.


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## Unkotare (Mar 6, 2012)

Epsilon Delta said:


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Holy shit you're stupid. 




And why is the wage so low....?


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## Againsheila (Mar 6, 2012)

Unkotare said:


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It's true according to the Japanese teachers I spoke to...did they change the law?


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## Nova78 (Mar 6, 2012)

Nothing you can do ,your government could give a fuck about illegals,If they did they would not be here.....its the next generation of worker bees,any chance of change would be to get rid of what we got for a president.....


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## Againsheila (Mar 6, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


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So, you support identity theft?  Is that for everyone, or just illegal immigrants?

How would you feel if your social security retirement was stopped because they decided suddenly that your husband was alive and working in California and you had no money to hire or lawyer or get to California to prove it wasn't your husband?

Social Security fraud is not a victimless crime.


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## Againsheila (Mar 6, 2012)

Nova78 said:


> Nothing you can do ,your government could give a fuck about illegals,If they did they would not be here.....its the next generation of worker bees,any chance of change would be to get rid of what we got for a president.....



Republican or Democrat, politicians are all in favor of illegals, against the wishes of the people and the health of the country.  

It's about time for a 2nd revolution.  We are no longer being represented by our government and according to the Declaration of Independence that gives us not only the right, but the duty to change our government.


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## Flopper (Mar 6, 2012)

Azrael said:


> So many people stream across our border illegally and our government struggles to do any thing about it.
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> So obviously it needs fixing.
> What are some ideas you all have as to how they could fix it?
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Turn the country into a giant stockade with sniper towers and special opp troops stationed on a 2000 mile border?  Thankfully your solution will go nowhere.


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## Nova78 (Mar 6, 2012)

Againsheila said:


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Not sure what the agenda is, but the white man will be pushed out for sure , then it will become  one giant toilet......


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## IndependntLogic (Mar 6, 2012)

Unkotare said:


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HomeInspect said:


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Well that's nice Unkotare - except it isn't true. There's a guy in Sugar Land, Texas who is of the exact same opinion. And another guy in La Jolla, California. So that's three of us right there! Hell, I'd bet there may be even more than three people in the USA who feel the same way.
So you're wrong when you say "the rest of the citizens" and "the country itself isn't good with that." Shockingly, not everyone in the entire USA agrees with you. Oh well. They don't all agree with me either.

I just rendered my opinion and I stand by it. Instead of banal generalities, would you like to tell my why you are of a different opinion? 



Againsheila said:


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Hmmm. I hadn't considered the effect on SSI etc... I thought they just used the number to get a paycheck but unlike all the "internet people", I don't claim to be any expert on everything. 
Okay. So if they used someone's SSN, they would have to compensate them for any damages done and apologize, or leave. Otherwise, I'm fine with full amnesty for anyone who can pass a background check. I think it would be nice if we gave them a welcome package of some kind too! Maybe the University of Chicago's Spanish / English dictionary and some Rosetta Stone CD's!


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## Unkotare (Mar 6, 2012)

Againsheila said:


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No change. There have always been procedures for applying for Japanese citizenship, they are just really tough and not approved so very often.


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## Unkotare (Mar 6, 2012)

Againsheila said:


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Easy on the 'revolution' bit. Try voting and being an informed and active citizen first.


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## Unkotare (Mar 6, 2012)

Nova78 said:


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Don't make this another racial thing. We have enough of that nonsense here already.


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## Unkotare (Mar 6, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


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Your opinion is that of a tiny minority of people who are too ignorant to realize just what it is they are advocating.


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## IndependntLogic (Mar 6, 2012)

Unkotare said:


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Ah. Petty insults. Shall I call you a poopyhead in retaliation of just enjoy the bemusement that comes from reading your post.

Pray tell, enlighten me with your acumen. What is it I am advocating?


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## Unkotare (Mar 6, 2012)

Among other things, you are advocating the exploitation of workers, human trafficking, distortion of the labor market, environmental degredation, and the erosion of US sovereignty.


You idiot.


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## IndependntLogic (Mar 6, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> Among other things, you are advocating the exploitation of workers, human trafficking, distortion of the labor market, environmental degredation, and the erosion of US sovereignty.
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LOL! Dude, my wife is asking me what I keep laughing about when I read your post! Thanks for the entertainment.

So you feel that:
If these workers were legal, they would be _more_ exploited than they are now? 
They would be _more_ likely to be subject to trafficking as legal citizens? 
How would the labor market be distorted? Would everyone have to work while looking through a kaliedescope? 
How would the envirnment be degraded is these folks were made legal?
The USA would no longer be a country is we granted amnesty? Wow! Can't wait to hear you back that up!


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## Unkotare (Mar 6, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


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I'm sure lots of people wonder what's wrong with you when you sit alone and laugh at your own toenails as well. I don't really give a shit though - 'dude.'


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## Unkotare (Mar 6, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


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You are clearly too fucking stupid to see beyond the end of your nose. It's a good thing idiots like you are so damn irrelevant.


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## IndependntLogic (Mar 6, 2012)

Unkotare said:


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Irrelevant to whom? My family? My employees? Vets? 

So in other words, you realized you can't back up your whacky bullshit claims. 
Um yeah, I knew that! 
It's all good. You may feel better knowing I have already forgiven you for your little tantrums. I understand. You're an angry little man and prone to hysterics. I would suggest a nice cup of Earl Grey and perhaps a fine Cuban Pelicudor! 
Cheers,
Your new BFF!


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## Unkotare (Mar 6, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


> Irrelevant to whom? !





To the rest of the country that recognizes the dangerous irresponsiblity in foolish, short-sighted emoting like yours. The fact that you are too stupid to even conceive of the consequences of your position means you will remain irrelevant


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## starcraftzzz (Mar 6, 2012)

Azrael said:


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I see so you dont want Mexicans here because they work harder then you, and you are  racist who thinks that "your" people should be given everything in life instead of "those" people


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## Unkotare (Mar 6, 2012)

starcraftzzz said:


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Being exploited does NOT mean "working harder," and there is nothing racist about defending one's national borders. You 'open border' types can't think ahead any more than a goldfish.


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## Flopper (Mar 6, 2012)

Most illegals enter the country via motor vehicles, boats, and planes.  A relatively small percentage of illegal immigrants cross on foot.  Secondly, most illegal immigrants came to this country legally.  When their work permit/visa expired, they never left.

What's really needed is revamping our immigration laws, eliminate the quota system, provide better procedures for handling visas, applicants investigation, and immigrant tracking.  If we do this we will eliminate most of the illegal immigrants.  We will still have illegal entry, but most of those will be real hardcore criminals, not people entering to work or be with their family.


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## IndependntLogic (Mar 6, 2012)

Unkotare said:


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LOL! Nice dodge. I asked you to support he funny bs you spewed about how people would become MORE exploited if they were legal and so on. And of course you Cut & Ran! LOL! Talk about "irrelevant"! 

It's okay little guy! I knew you wouldn't be able to support your bs. I mean c'mon, it's not like I take you seriously!


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## Unkotare (Mar 6, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


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Are you really this fucking stupid?


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## IndependntLogic (Mar 6, 2012)

Unkotare said:


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Nice dodge! Six posts and you have still managed to dodge, change the subect etc... in order to Cut & Run from having to justify your ridiculous bullpocky! 

Nicely done! Are you a politician?


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## Unkotare (Mar 6, 2012)

So you can't even imagine what might be wrong with your little fantasy, huh? You are truly hopeless.


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## IndependntLogic (Mar 6, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> So you can't even imagine what might be wrong with your little fantasy, huh? You are truly hopeless.



7 posts and not one issue addressed, not one BS claim supported! You ARE a politician! 

Sure. I didn't say that my opinion is without fault. However the reasoning you provided is laughable kitty poop! 
You think legal citizens are more in danger than illegals? LOL! Talk about stupid!!! 

But hey, you ARE very entertaining! TY for that.

Hugs & Kisses, 

Your New BFF


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## Epsilon Delta (Mar 6, 2012)

Unkotare said:


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Sorry, but I am not sure what you're trying to imply. If it takes you too much effort to articulate an opinion then there isn't much of a point in engaging you in an argument.


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## IndependntLogic (Mar 6, 2012)

Epsilon Delta said:


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Clarity and specifics aren't thing Unkotare seems very strong on. But! If you need some simplistic bumper sticker slogans and a bunch of petty insults and tantrums, he's your guy!


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## Againsheila (Mar 6, 2012)

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Every other country in the world protects their low skilled workers but ours...even Mexico.  How about we adopt their immigration policy?  You aren't allowed to come here unless you already have an income and are not taking jobs from our citizens.

My job went to India...I wanted to go with it but was told those jobs are for their citizens.  Guess what?  I can live a lot better on $4.00 an hour in India than $8.50 here in America.  We cannot and should not be expected to compete with low wage workers from 3rd world countries.


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## Againsheila (Mar 6, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


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> > Among other things, you are advocating the exploitation of workers, human trafficking, distortion of the labor market, environmental degredation, and the erosion of US sovereignty.
> ...



If you legalize them, just as in every amnesty in the past, illegal immigration will increase and they will lose their jobs to the new illegal immigrants...great job you did there.  You took away their living while you were trying to be so nice.  Again, what do you call someone that does the same thing over and over again and expects different results?

BTW, as a person with several legal immigrants in her family, and some family friends that were never allowed to come to live here and did not break into our country, I seriously object to making a person legal just because they snuck across our border..it's an insult to every legal immigrant in this nation.  Worse, it makes it harder for those who are trying to come here legally to get here...illegals are takihng their places.  How would you like to pay for your ticket to the theater and then discover someone else is sitting in your seat and you are not allowed to see the show at all just because they snuck in and took your seat?


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## IndependntLogic (Mar 6, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



Well I don't care if we give them amnesty, as long as they can pass a background check and haven't broken any laws other than being here.
That's just my opinion.
Oh yeah. And I think it would be nice if we gave them a little something like maybe an assorted fruit basket or a box of candy or something


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## Not2BSubjugated (Mar 6, 2012)

People are really making this into a much harder, more complex problem than it needs to be.

I have an easy solution to this one that can be expressed in two simple words:  shock collars.

Put shock collars on everyone that's not currently a US citizen and a perimeter around the upper48, and smaller ones around Canada and Hawaii.  But not Puerto Rico.  People can illegally immigrate there all they want. . . they're not really a state and it's mostly brown people there anyway.


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## IndependntLogic (Mar 6, 2012)

Not2BSubjugated said:


> People are really making this into a much harder, more complex problem than it needs to be.
> 
> I have an easy solution to this one that can be expressed in two simple words:  shock collars.
> 
> Put shock collars on everyone that's not currently a US citizen and a perimeter around the upper48, and smaller ones around Canada and Hawaii.  But not Puerto Rico.  People can illegally immigrate there all they want. . . they're not really a state and it's mostly brown people there anyway.



This is the single most intelligent post I have seen in this thread thusfar. It displays that certain je ne sais quoi the other posters lack.
Well done sir!


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## Not2BSubjugated (Mar 6, 2012)

Whoa!  Meant Alaska and Hawaii, not Canada.  Don't let them in either.

And thanks for the recognition, Inde.  Always good to have confirmation that I'm not casting these pearls before swine


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## Douger (Mar 6, 2012)

Plant more beans ?


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## IndependntLogic (Mar 6, 2012)

Not2BSubjugated said:


> Whoa!  Meant Alaska and Hawaii, not Canada.  Don't let them in either.
> 
> And thanks for the recognition, Inde.  Always good to have confirmation that I'm not casting these pearls before swine



Oh I wouldn't discount the possibility of my qualifying for the genus sus suidae - after all, I am a man. 
So the electro-collars: how about using them on female college students who won't shut their yaps about want us to pay for their slutty sex? Or say, when they don't want to give it up?


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## Not2BSubjugated (Mar 7, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


> Not2BSubjugated said:
> 
> 
> > Whoa!  Meant Alaska and Hawaii, not Canada.  Don't let them in either.
> ...



Shit, I'm thinking about running for office on this platform.  You name a problem and I can give you a solution, 10 seconds or less, involving shock collars.  The revolution's coming.  Utopia nears.


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## Unkotare (Mar 7, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


> Well I don't care if we give them amnesty, as long as they can pass a background check and haven't broken any laws other than being here.
> That's just my opinion.






And your opinion is fucking stupid. We KNOW what happens when amnesty is granted to illegal aliens (can you guess what it is, genius?) Your stupid idea would only multiply the problems we already have associated with illegal immigration and guarantee generations of more of the same. You're a fucking numbskull, and if you weren't so damn irrelevant you'd be a danger to the Republic.


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## Unkotare (Mar 7, 2012)

Epsilon Delta said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Epsilon Delta said:
> ...




Try to answer the question, numbskull. Why is the wage so low?


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## Unkotare (Mar 7, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


> Epsilon Delta said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...




Do you two dim-witted chimps share a cage at the zoo?


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## Nova78 (Mar 7, 2012)

*No nation in history has ever survived multiculturalism.*


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## starcraftzzz (Mar 7, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> starcraftzzz said:
> 
> 
> > Azrael said:
> ...


Exploited? Just because youa re to lazy and greedy to work less for less then others doesn't mean they are exploited, it jsut emans lhey  are willing to work harder then you
Only a dumbass thinks there is nothing racist in advocating that "your" people be given opportunities that "other peoples" shouldn't


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## starcraftzzz (Mar 7, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> starcraftzzz said:
> 
> 
> > Azrael said:
> ...


Why do you feel so entitled that you deserve more then other people? Are you really so pathetic that you must but barriers against others and prevent them from seeking a better life  becuse you are unable to provide for yourself?


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## Unkotare (Mar 7, 2012)

starcraftzzz said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > starcraftzzz said:
> ...





Accepting work below market rate because workers must hide their illegal status and therefore be exempt from any laws or protections (as well as any responsibilities, btw) is EXACTLY exploitation, you fucking dope. "Hard work" has nothing to do with it. Legal American workers are the hardest working in the world. 

Oh, and learn English, you ignorant shit.


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## Unkotare (Mar 7, 2012)

starcraftzzz said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > starcraftzzz said:
> ...





Do you have doors and windows on your house?


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## Unkotare (Mar 7, 2012)

starcraftzzz said:


> Only a dumbass thinks there is nothing racist in advocating that "your" people be given opportunities that "other peoples" shouldn't





You clearly don't understand what "racism" means,  you fucking idiot. Take an English course some time.


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## starcraftzzz (Mar 7, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> starcraftzzz said:
> 
> 
> > Only a dumbass thinks there is nothing racist in advocating that "your" people be given opportunities that "other peoples" shouldn't
> ...



I see so according to you its not racist to want brown people to be poor in order to make white people who dont work as hard richer. Perhaps you should stop posting unless you like making yourself look like a retard


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## starcraftzzz (Mar 7, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> starcraftzzz said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



I see so because you're to lazy to work for low pay that means everyone who does is bad. Perhaps you should stop beign so lazy


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## IndependntLogic (Mar 7, 2012)

Nova78 said:


> *No nation in history has ever survived multiculturalism.*



Actually the greatest and / or longest lasting continuous governments have all been multi-cultural.


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## IndependntLogic (Mar 7, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> > Epsilon Delta said:
> ...



See what I mean?  He actually proves my point for me, doesn't he?



Unkotare said:


> starcraftzzz said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



Ahhhhh irony. It is never so entertaining as when combined with puerile tantrums


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## Againsheila (Mar 7, 2012)

starcraftzzz said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > starcraftzzz said:
> ...



Bulcrap.

I was 18 the last time I went berry picking.  My sister in law, newly here LEGALLY from Thailand, wanted to make some money, having picked berries since I was 12, though not recently, I told here, "Come on, I'll show you how to make some money."   We went to the busstop.  Much to my surprise I was the only caucasion there.  I hadn't been in a couple of years, just 2 years.  The bus driver came, he took everyone there, all asians, except me.  The bus driver had never seen either of us before.  My sister in law didn't know what to do, I told her to go ahead and go.  She did.  When she came back, she said she was never doing that again.

If farmers can't get workers now it's their own fault.  They got rid of their caucasion workers in favor of illegals they could treat like shit.  In fact, from what I hear, the employers are quite likely to call immigration themselves just to get out of paying those illegals.  Making them legal will do nothing except lead to more ILLEGALS coming.  Send them home and let them come back LEGALLY or not at all.  It's best for everybody, except maybe the employers that exploit them and the politicans who get their votes.  Yeah, LEGAL immigrants can't vote but Illegal immigrants have admitted that they vote.  I heard on live during one of their protests saying "We vote too".  The reporter said nothing.  My brother in law has a PHD, he's been here for the past 30 years, he's a legal resident and he doesn't vote but illegals do?  And no one does anything about it?  There is something seriously wrong with this country.

I listened to some idiot farmer on the radio say he had to hire Mexicans because he couldn't find Americans to pick apples for him.  He was looking for people with one year experience in picking apples.  Who needs a years experience in picking apples and who doesn't KNOW that the Mexicans are lying about their experience to get the jobs.  Trust me, I lived in Mexico, I know they would lie to get a job.  I know some Americans that would lie to get jobs, I'm not one of them.  However, in Mexico, it is a way of life.  They have different values than we do.

Again, giving Amnesty to illegals has happened several times in the past, it has only exacerbated the problem.  We can't do it again, the only reasonable answer is to ship home the illegals and to close our borders, only letting in LEGAL immigrants.  And we let in more of them than all other nations combined.

Funny how we can close Iraq's borders, pay for a wall on Egypt's borders, but we can't seem to do anything to protect our own borders.


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## Nova78 (Mar 7, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


> Nova78 said:
> 
> 
> > *No nation in history has ever survived multiculturalism.*
> ...



*Go ask England or Germany how its worked out*If you made that comment in a european country you would be picking up your ass off the ground wondering what happened...


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## IndependntLogic (Mar 7, 2012)

Nova78 said:


> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> > Nova78 said:
> ...



Ask the Romans, Greeks, Persians, Huns... 

Your statement was that no nation has ever survived multi-culturalism. It's wrong. The longest lasting governments in history, be they empires or republics, were almost all, multi-curtural.

And nah, I wouldn't be picking anything off the ground. You might be but I can handle myself.


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## Unkotare (Mar 7, 2012)

starcraftzzz said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > starcraftzzz said:
> ...




That's got nothing to do with defending our nation's borders, you idiot. Preventing illegal immigration means preventing people - OF ANY COLOR - from entering or staying in the country illegally. Maybe you haven't noticed but an awful lot of US citizens are not 'white,' and everyone in the world who is not a US citizen is not 'brown,' (not even all the people from Mexico - *gasp* really? yes, really).  Your attempt to categorize everyone in the world (and inaccurately at that) as 'colors' is fucking offensive. 

Again, no one works harder than legal US workers.

Finally, stop using the word "retard" like that. It's offensive, you callous piece of shit. There are real human beings in this world who are faced with real mental retardation and they do not exist as a punchline or easy insult for assholes like you who can't think of anything else to say. Remember it.


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## Unkotare (Mar 7, 2012)

starcraftzzz said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > starcraftzzz said:
> ...





After you take an English class, take one on basic economics, you fucking idiot.


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## Unkotare (Mar 7, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


> This is what is called a "run on sentence":     Accepting work below market rate because workers must hide their illegal status and therefore be exempt from any laws or protections (as well as any responsibilities, btw) is EXACTLY exploitation, you fucking dope.






That is not a run-on sentence. Try knowing what you are talking about before playing the expert, fool.


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## Unkotare (Mar 7, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


> Accepting work below market rate because workers must hide their illegal status and therefore be exempt from any laws or protections (as well as any responsibilities, btw) is EXACTLY exploitation, you fucking dope.
> Hiding illegal status does not make anyone "exempt from" laws but rather, indicates they are "evading" said laws. Nothing "is exactly exploitation". It may be an example of exploitation or even exemply it but "is exactly exploitation" is terrible grammar.





What you are trying (and failing) to critique isn't even a matter of grammar, you idiot. Again you fall right on your face in trying to play the expert when you don't know what the hell you are talking about.


More to the point, it is not in 'evading' laws that illegal aliens are exploited in labor relations, but in the fact that employers can and do deal with them in an exploitive manner outside laws we have established for overseeing such relationships. YOU apparently don't care about the laws of our country OR what happens to these people - WHO SHOULD NOT BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. It all just comes down to empty, self-indulgent emoting for you I guess. You lack both character and substance.


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## Unkotare (Mar 7, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


> And nah, I wouldn't be picking anything off the ground. You might be but I can handle myself.






LOL @ tough guy


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## IndependntLogic (Mar 7, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> > This is what is called a "run on sentence":     Accepting work below market rate because workers must hide their illegal status and therefore be exempt from any laws or protections (as well as any responsibilities, btw) is EXACTLY exploitation, you fucking dope.
> ...




You're obviously very upset and feeling a little betchy. That time of the month? Have a nice cup of tea nad some chocolate! In the meantime, it is a run on sentence and exemplifies the misuse of the "comma splice". Allow me to help you below: 



Unkotare said:


> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> > Illegal immigrants must Accept work below market rate because they  must hide their illegal status. This is necessary in order to evade (exempt means to LEGALLY be free of) applicable   laws. However, they also lose the corresponding protections. This exposes them to  exploitation. Obviously, Unkotare is a fucking dope.
> ...




Let me point out that you said the following would result from granting them legal status:

Unkotare wrote: "Among other things, you are advocating the exploitation of workers, human trafficking, distortion of the labor market, environmental degredation, and the erosion of US sovereignty."

If they are legal, it _reduces_ the likelihood of exploitation. You actually state the reasons for this in your self-contradicting post above. 
You may now continue your hysterics.


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## Unkotare (Mar 7, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > IndependntLogic said:
> ...




You very clearly have no idea what you are trying to talk about. Trust me, you are wrong.


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## Unkotare (Mar 7, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


> If they are legal, it _reduces_ the likelihood of exploitation. You actually state the reasons for this in your self-contradicting post above.





Remember when I told you that you were too stupid to see past your own nose? Well there it is again. If you grant amnesty to illegal aliens already here you will, as history has proven, only encourage more illegal immigration. Do you see how this will result in an increase in all the ills we spoke of before? I know others have explained this to you. Are you incapable of learning?


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## Nova78 (Mar 7, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> > And nah, I wouldn't be picking anything off the ground. You might be but I can handle myself.
> ...



My exact reaction also ,Internet tough guy


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## Againsheila (Mar 7, 2012)

Why does every single thread here have to evolve into a pissing contest?


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## starcraftzzz (Mar 7, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> starcraftzzz said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



Hey it is not my fault you are lazy and hate Mexicans because they work harder then you. Perhaps you just accept that you are stupid and poor because you are not good enough to be rich


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## Unkotare (Mar 7, 2012)

starcraftzzz said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > starcraftzzz said:
> ...




Are you even reading the posts in this thread, or are you just copying and pasting your one irrational comment over and over? Do you intend a discussion, or just more of your stupidity and lies?


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## IndependntLogic (Mar 7, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...




Why would I trust a complete fucking idiot who can't write English? 

Here junior: Run-on sentence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wait! You didn't even _know_ these things! You wrote "That is EXACTLY exploitation" which isn't even close to something that would be written by someone who speaks English as a first language. You're here ILLEGALLY! I knew it!!!


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## Unkotare (Mar 7, 2012)

Wikipedia? LOL, just as I thought...


...and even your 'wiki-expert' source does not support your failed analysis. 


Trust me, you are wrong.


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## gallantwarrior (Mar 7, 2012)

starcraftzzz said:


> Azrael said:
> 
> 
> > So many people stream across our border illegally and our government struggles to do any thing about it.
> ...



Everybody I talk to has no problem with _LEGAL_ immigration.  We welcome it because it is generally a good thing.  The objection comes when someone's very _first_ act in this country is to break its laws.  That shows a very basic disregard for our Nation and brings into question whether these illegal invaders have the good of this Nation at heart.


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## gallantwarrior (Mar 7, 2012)

Azrael said:


> So many people stream across our border illegally and our government struggles to do any thing about it.
> 
> So obviously it needs fixing.
> What are some ideas you all have as to how they could fix it?
> ...



We should start by adopting the same exact immigration laws applied by Mexico to those who illegally cross their borders...then enforce them diligently.


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## gallantwarrior (Mar 7, 2012)

Zander said:


> Public hangings of illegal immigrants would be quite a deterrent....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In the days before cable TV, public hangings were da bomb!  Whole family came, packed a lunch...


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## gallantwarrior (Mar 7, 2012)

Epsilon Delta said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Epsilon Delta said:
> ...



Take away government support so that not working means not eating and you'd see a big change in what Americans would, or would not do for whatever wage they could get.


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## Luddly Neddite (Mar 7, 2012)

Big Black Dog said:


> I have a 3 point plan for getting illegal aliens out of the country.
> 
> Point 1.  If you are here illegally, you will be escorted to the border and told that you are here illegally and you must leave and not come back.  If you are caught again in this country illegally, it will be more difficult for you.
> 
> ...



And you would be wrong. 

you won't get any further than "point 1" because if it were possible to simply 'round them up and send them packing', it would have been done a long time ago. 

I lived in Tucson for more than 25 years. This is not a simple question although it helps that President Obama has deported more than any other president and that he has put more Border Patrol and  National Guard on the border than any other president. Or, for that matter, than McCain or Kyl ever authorized. They both have fought against securing hte border. Read their records and you'll see what I mean. 

Current laws are being enforced. Go on a ride along with Border Patrol and you'll quickly see the problems. 

Very few workers are coming across now because we don't have the jobs for them. Many have gone home. That's why small American family farmers are going broke but why huge corporation farms are doing very well. Its what the R's want. 

Marijuana still comes across and there really is no way to stop it - except if the US stops buying it. 

Meanwhile, we have three open borders where, if not for President Obama's reworking of Homeland Security, we'd be inundated with terrorists. 

R's want us to believe that Mexicans are THE problem. 

They're not. 

Don't be so gullible.


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## Luddly Neddite (Mar 7, 2012)

gallantwarrior said:


> Epsilon Delta said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



I don't care to wade through the pissing contest but if you mean support for illegals, you might want to do a little research. 

According to the rw's, illegals get everything from a new Rolls to a home with a swimming pool. As with most things, the rw's are wrong about this too. 

If you mean American citizens, you're also wrong but I know this is a pet cause for rw's. They won't be happy until every poor child in the country has starved to death cuz by gawd, that'll teach 'em to pull themselves up by their boot straps.


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## IndependntLogic (Mar 7, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> Wikipedia? LOL, just as I thought...
> 
> 
> ...and even your 'wiki-expert' source does not support your failed analysis.
> ...



I just posted a link to the first thing that came up. It was my hope to teach you to write like someone who speaks English as a first language but ala, it shall not be. Some people are stupid. They're the ones who look smart when compared to you.

So okay Junior, you're absolutely right! <pat on head> You're cute little 30+ word sentence was not a run-on! Oh no!


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## freedombecki (Mar 7, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


> Azrael said:
> 
> 
> > So many people stream across our border illegally and our government struggles to do any thing about it.
> ...


Are you good with the rule of law?


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## IndependntLogic (Mar 7, 2012)

freedombecki said:


> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> > Azrael said:
> ...



Actually, I'm a seriel criminal. I speed all the friggin time. It's the car's fault. I swear you can be going 150 mph and feel like you're doing 50. Of course, it's a big ol' sedan so I don't drive like that but I usually drive 5 - 10 mph over the limit several times a day.


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## freedombecki (Mar 7, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> > IndependntLogic said:
> ...


IOW, no?


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## IndependntLogic (Mar 8, 2012)

freedombecki said:


> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> > freedombecki said:
> ...



LOL! Do you EVER lighten up a bit there sweetheart? Okay, fine then. I'm not good with the rule of EVERY law. And neither are you, btw.


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## Unkotare (Mar 8, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> If you mean American citizens, you're also wrong but I know this is a pet cause for rw's. They won't be happy until every poor child in the country has starved to death cuz by gawd, that'll teach 'em to pull themselves up by their boot straps.






More hyper-partisan bullshit from a far-left shill. What a surprise.


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## Unkotare (Mar 8, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Wikipedia? LOL, just as I thought...
> ...





Thanks for proving once again that you don't know what you are talking about. A run-on sentence has nothing to do with the number of words in the sentence, idiot. You make yourself look especially foolish when you try to play the expert on something you obviously do not understand. Better look for a new angle, because this one really isn't working for you.


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## Unkotare (Mar 8, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> > IndependntLogic said:
> ...



.................................




If you need me to teach you English, just ask. You couldn't afford me, and I wouldn't waste my time on a stupid asshole like you, but you could still ask.


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## IndependntLogic (Mar 8, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> > freedombecki said:
> ...



Ah the typo... Okay junior. Time to let the cat out of the bag. I've just been f*ckin with you! As if I take you seriously! 
Or did you really think I considered myself a serial criminal because I break the speed limit - and also feel that electric dog collars would be the best solution to our immigrant problem?


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## Unkotare (Mar 8, 2012)

You should take seriously the need to actually learn something about the English language if you are going to try and play 'expert' again in the future.


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## LilOlLady (Mar 8, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> Azrael said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...





Just like we would deal with any foreign invader?


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## LilOlLady (Mar 8, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> You should take seriously the need to actually learn something about the English language if you are going to try and play 'expert' again in the future.



Just for you Unkotare. and other that are hung up on the usage of the English language.
English Language Discussion Board


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## Unkotare (Mar 8, 2012)

LilOlLady said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > You should take seriously the need to actually learn something about the English language if you are going to try and play 'expert' again in the future.
> ...




Maybe YOU should get a little hung up on _learning_ the English language, you ignorant slob.


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## manifold (Mar 8, 2012)

@ a guy who took his screen name from the cat on the Smurfs.


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## Nova78 (Mar 8, 2012)

_News release-to border jumpers-Russia is in need of thousands of workers,feel free to come on over ,free entry..........._


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## BluePhantom (Mar 8, 2012)

Zander said:


> Public hangings of illegal immigrants would be quite a deterrent....
> 
> This one drew a huge crowd!! Rainey Bathea was the last man hung in America...that was 1936.



Actually a guy named Billy Bailey was hanged by Delaware in 1996, Charles Campbell was hanged by the state of Washington in 1994, and Westley Allen Dodd also by Washington in 1993.

Minor point and somewhat irrelevant in regards to the topic of discussion but...well.....there it is.

Billy Bailey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Charles Rodman Campbell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Westley Allan Dodd - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Speaker (Mar 8, 2012)

I think its is funny that when we think illegal imagration, we think mexicans, while people from europe are coming over as well and we are not screaming about it. I live in Oregon so i know there are a lot of mexcans coming from the boarder, so i am not saying that it isnt a big deal. Although, it does not need to be thought about this much. first america has problems for itself and we cannot take care of more and more people. focus on taxing the rich or getting out of afganistan.


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## BluePhantom (Mar 8, 2012)

The Phantom strategy for minimizing (cause we will never stop it completely) illegal immigration is as follows:

1) Secure the border with fences, walls, technology, boots on the ground, and Apaches in the air.  Liberals are always crying for infrastructure development.  I say we give it to them: 1,969 miles of "infrastructure" across our southern border that is well patrolled by United States military.

2) Get rid of the lure for illegals.  That means employing actions such as pulling he business licenses of organizations who hire illegal immigrants, denying illegals financial support, and denying them all but emergency health care even that of which would only be provided on their way back to their own damned country.

3) Amend the Constitution to fix the "anchor baby" trap.

4) Illegals caught in the United States will be given a choice: a) serve in the United States military in a combat role for four years (after which they receive citizenship), or b) we put them to work on the chain gain (meaning no salary except room and board) paving roads and highways and building bridges for six years (after which they receive citizenship). During this time any children will be returned to their native country until their term is complete. Women may choose to return with their children (if they have any) or carry water to the guys digging ditches.

5) Illegals convicted of a violent crime or drug smuggling will be executed or interred in remote locations: Wake Island, Kingman Reef, Palmyra Atoll, etc.


Somehow I imagine my position on this will not garner me a whole lot of support, but that's what I would do.


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## Unkotare (Mar 8, 2012)

Speaker said:


> I think its is funny that when we think illegal imagration, we think mexicans.





Speak for yourself.


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## Unkotare (Mar 8, 2012)

Speaker said:


> I think its is funny that when we think illegal imagration, we think mexicans, while people from europe are coming over as well and we are not screaming about it. I live in Oregon so i know there are a lot of mexcans coming from the boarder, so i am not saying that it isnt a big deal. Although, it does not need to be thought about this much. first america has problems for itself and we cannot take care of more and more people. focus on taxing the rich or getting out of afganistan.





That post was a whole lotta stupid.


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## BluePhantom (Mar 8, 2012)

Speaker said:


> I think its is funny that when we think illegal imagration, we think mexicans, while people from europe are coming over as well and we are not screaming about it. I live in Oregon so i know there are a lot of mexcans coming from the boarder, so i am not saying that it isnt a big deal. Although, it does not need to be thought about this much. first america has problems for itself and we cannot take care of more and more people. focus on taxing the rich or getting out of afganistan.



I live in Oregon as well and as recently as two years ago I lived in Arizona.  I do find it interesting that there is a far higher percentage of Mexicans in Oregon than in Arizona.  It's not terribly stunning when you think about it, I suppose, as Oregon has far more farm lands than Arizona so there is more work here.  Additionally, Oregon is far friendlier to them than Arizona is.

As to only focusing on Mexican immigrants, let's be honest here.  Yes there are illegals from many different nations but the *vast *majority come from Mexico. That's not to say that an illegal from Canada or Australia should be treated any differently...indeed they should not be. But we are not exactly being overrun by illegal New Zealanders or illegal Portuguese. They are a drop in the waterfall.


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## IndependntLogic (Mar 8, 2012)

How to spot and angry little biotch:



			
				Unkotare

More hyper-partisan bullshit from a far-left shill. What a surprise.[/quote said:
			
		

> Maybe YOU should get a little hung up on _learning_ the English language, you ignorant slob.
> 
> That post was a whole lotta stupid.
> 
> I'm really angry and I think I just peed myself!






Anyone else get the "angry little pudgy guy in mom's basement" feel from this guy? Poor little guy. 
I wonder if he's ever in a good mood?


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## Unkotare (Mar 8, 2012)

IndependntLogic said:


> How to spot and angry little biotch:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This is not the best way for you to deal with your humiliation.


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## Againsheila (Mar 8, 2012)

Speaker said:


> I think its is funny that when we think illegal imagration, we think mexicans, while people from europe are coming over as well and we are not screaming about it. I live in Oregon so i know there are a lot of mexcans coming from the boarder, so i am not saying that it isnt a big deal. Although, it does not need to be thought about this much. first america has problems for itself and we cannot take care of more and more people. focus on taxing the rich or getting out of afganistan.



Actually, due to immigration changes by Teddy Kennedy in the 60's, it's almost impossible for Europeans to come here legally...unless they marry and American citizen, and even then it's almost impossible.  Some have come anyway, and yes, they should go home as well.  

The reason everyone associated the Mexicans and hispanics as illegals is simply due to shear numbers and geography.  It's a lot easier to walk across the border than swim across the sea.  However, illegals of all races are flying to Mexico and coming across the border.  We need to seal that border.


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## Sweet Willy (Mar 10, 2012)

Hmmm... where to jump in after three years absence...right here!

I see the regular answers here,  the absurd,  followed by the insane,  followed by an actual good idea or two.  My estimation of the illegal situation:

1)  Forget forced deportation as an answer.  Can't be done reasonably.  There are 12 million + illegals,  some say more.  The sheer numbers are just too big,  we can't afford what it would take,  the border would have to be fully secured so that we actual would gain ground (not going to happen either,  see #2) and the biggest reason is_ time_.  I'm not sure if people take into account logistics and time and money to try and deport 12 million people.  During WWII,  the Germans began killing civilians by lining up the undesired people and just shooting them.  They found this to be expensive and slow.  They went back to the drawing board and devised the assembly line style of cattle cars and gas chambers.  More efficient.  Still,  it took them several years to KILL 6 - 8 million people.  Not to humanely arrest and feed and transport and process and deport.  That was what it took to treat people like cattle on the way to slaughter.  Now,  if you consider the economics and time of killing 6 - 8 million people,  it's going to take  30 years to deport 12 million + people.  And that would only work if there were no more coming.  So besides mobilizing an incredible amount of man power to locate and capture illegals,  you would at the same time,  need to mobilize another incredible amount of money and man power to make sure they are not replaced as quickly as we deport.  This is a formula that pretty much equals sure financial destruction, considering how terribly fragile things are anyway.  Not a viable solution.  We are at record deportation levels already and the net level of illegals is near 0.  Which just means that our best effort in 40 years, combined with the lowest attempted entry in years,  barely deports one for every one that enters.  That won't last.  When the JOBS come back,  we won't be able to keep pace.

2)  Forget the military,  forget the wall.  It's the biggest blunder on the whole issue mostly because it has so much support,  it could happen.  And it would be a disaster.  First off,  unleashing the military on civilians is just a terrible idea.  The grief that would cause is unthinkable,  on that merit alone,  the idea is a non starter.  If that's not enough,  again,  let's talk logistics.  And i have already hashed this out a hundred times so I'll just leave it up to anyone to tell me how many men it would take AND don't stop there.  Tell me where they will eat,  where they will sleep,  where they will poop, where they will shop and on and on and on.... much of this is in the middle of the desert.  When people say "bring the troops home and put them on the border" they aren't thinking much at all.  It's just a knee jerk.  This would be a DEPLOYMENT.  Not unlike some recent deployments.  The military guys know what that entails.  Men don't go sleep in a pup tent and drink the dew off the cactus.  It is a massive and expensive under taking to deploy the kind of men this would take to be successful.  Just ask N. Korea or Israel or anyone else that actually maintains a fence / militarized border what it cost.  It is incredibly expensive to try and stop unarmed civilians from crossing a line.  And if you are one of the folks that says "shoot to kill" don't bother responding.  We're talking reality here.

3)  The "lock 'em up" solution.  In short,  we have about 2 million people incarcerated in the entire US prison system.  Where exactly are we going to put 12 million people and how much would THAT cost?  Again,  this is among the knee jerk ideas with no basis in reality.

4)  What does that leave us?  Self deportation.  It has taken 28 years for these people to get here,  coming at a steady clip.  It will take a while to get them out and all of them will never leave.  If you are a t - total,  round 'em all up,  every last one, shoot 'em, rape 'em, cook 'em for the dogs type.... well,  you just aren't going to be of much use in the conversation.  The thing that gets us rid of them the fastest though,  is to take their jobs.  Many people know this.  About a million and a half of them have gone home,  on their own dime,  since 2008.  They lost their jobs.  We have barely deported that many in the same time and it cost us billions of dollars.  So if we consider what WORKS what we know gets results,  at next to NO COST to us,  the answer is fairly simple:  Take their jobs.  

5)  I am generally not a fan of super simple solutions.  They usually don't work, are ill conceived and ill fitting.  But in this case,  there is a simple solution and a couple states did hit it on.... but went too far with some other stuff that caused unneeded problems.  The only law you need:  THE CEO OR OWNER OF ANY COMPANY FOUND WITH AN ILLEGAL ON THE JOB GETS 90 DAYS MANDATORY.  Period.  End of law.  No exceptions.  If you find an illegal working for something Warren Buffet owns,  LOCK WARREN UP FOR 90 DAYS.  It would take maybe two or three arrested millionaires sitting their cans in the can and there would be a clearing house like we have never seen.  And the beauty is,  none of this civil rights crap that gets in the way when the state tries to go after people with cops at traffic stops or kids in school.... not needed.  An employer can announce that you must be able to read War and Peace from cover to cover in perfect English if you want to work here.  You must provide 9 forms of I.D.,  5 references and write an essay on hot dogs and apple pie to work here.  Employers can do what the government can't.  They can't make you prove citizenship any time they please.  

If we did this,  we could give the Border Patrol a 6 month vacation and open the border up... there would be a literal flood heading south.  And when the mass exodus is over,  and it actually would take a few years,  in reality,  THEN when we don't have a bunch of poor civilians coming here for jobs,  THEN you can open fire on the Cartels. Be my guest.  Those are real criminals,  not misdemeanors.

So, hows that fr my first post in three years?


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