# Explosion in Oslo



## Ravi

OSLO, Norway  A loud explosion has shattered windows at the government headquarters in Oslo which includes the prime minister's office, injuring several people.

Norwegian news agency NTB said the prime minister is safe.

An AP reporter says newspaper offices in the area are also damaged and smoke is drifting in the streets. 

Explosion damages gov't building in Oslo - CBS News


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## xsited1

> Norwegian prosecutors on Tuesday filed a terrorism charge against Mullah Krekar, founder of the Kurdish Islamist group Ansar al-Islam. Mullah Krekar is accused of threatening a former minister, Erna Solberg, with death.



My guess is that this was either done by a 6-year old girl or an 80-year old grandma, both white, American and Christian.


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## Mad Scientist

Amish Terrorists?


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## Douger

Has Norway been attempting to deliver FreeDumb and DemoNcracy (bomb into mud age) too ?


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## Liability

Reuters: 8 people injured in Oslo blast at government offices - On Deadline - USATODAY.com

The various "updates" are worth perusing.

For example:



> Update at 10:14 a.m. ET: Although the source of the blast is unclear, Al-Jazeera TV notes that Norwegian prosecutors on Tuesday filed a terrorism charge against Mullah Krekar, founder of the Kurdish Islamist group Ansar al-Islam. Mullah Krekar is accused of threatening a former minister, Erna Solberg, with death, Al-Jazeera says.


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## chanel

White middle class Christians I imagine.


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## Ravi

According to this, it was more than one location.



> One explosion happened near a government building housing the office of Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg, said the reporter, Linda Reinholdsen. Another hit near the Norwegian parliament, she said.


Blasts hit government buildings in Oslo, Norway - CNN.com


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## High_Gravity

A 6 year old girl or 90 year old grandmother in diapers did this, both Americans and white.


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## Ravi

This report says the site of the explosion was a tabloid newspaper.


> AN explosion took place Friday local time in the building of Norway's biggest tabloid newspaper VG located near the government's headquarters in Oslo, local media reported.


Explosion at tabloid newspaper VG near Norwegian PM&#039;s office | Herald Sun


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## chanel

Reuters is reporting one dead; 8 injured.


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## Ravi

Update at 11:15 a.m. ET. Car Bomb Blamed:

Reuters and The Associated Press are both citing local NTB news as saying that police have confirmed the explosion was caused by a car bomb.

Explosion In Oslo Rocks Government Offices; Deaths Reported : The Two-Way : NPR


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## Si modo

Ravi said:


> This report says the site of the explosion was a tabloid newspaper.
> 
> 
> 
> AN explosion took place Friday local time in the building of Norway's biggest tabloid newspaper VG located near the government's headquarters in Oslo, local media reported.
> 
> 
> 
> Explosion at tabloid newspaper VG near Norwegian PM's office | Herald Sun
Click to expand...

Did they print cartoons?


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## chanel

Two confirmed dead now.

I wonder if that newspaper printed any "bomb worthy" cartoons.


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## Si modo

chanel said:


> Two confirmed dead now.
> 
> I wonder if that newspaper printed any "bomb worthy" cartoons.


Great minds think alike.


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## martybegan

I am imposing a personal 8 hour rule on this before even trying to figure out who was behind this, as the information we have been given is sketchy at best.


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## Ravi

Si modo said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> This report says the site of the explosion was a tabloid newspaper.
> 
> 
> 
> AN explosion took place Friday local time in the building of Norway's biggest tabloid newspaper VG located near the government's headquarters in Oslo, local media reported.
> 
> 
> 
> Explosion at tabloid newspaper VG near Norwegian PM's office | Herald Sun
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did they print cartoons?
Click to expand...

Could be....I know that some Norwegian papers printed the Danish cartoons.


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## Si modo

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> This report says the site of the explosion was a tabloid newspaper.
> Explosion at tabloid newspaper VG near Norwegian PM's office | Herald Sun
> 
> 
> 
> Did they print cartoons?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Could be....I know that some Norwegian papers printed the Danish cartoons.
Click to expand...

Sorta my line of thinking, too.

But, we don't know enough, yet.

It does appear to be the style of Muslim terrorists so far.


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## Two Thumbs

Bombing Norway?

That's fucking stoopid on so many levels.  The last thing you want is the decendants of Vikings pissed off at you.

Prayers for the victims, I hope they get justice.


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## Two Thumbs

martybegan said:


> I am imposing a personal 8 hour rule on this before even trying to figure out who was behind this, as the information we have been given is sketchy at best.



Good idea.

If they are smart, no one will claim it.


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## High_Gravity

Two Thumbs said:


> Bombing Norway?
> 
> That's fucking stoopid on so many levels.  The last thing you want is the decendants of Vikings pissed off at you.
> 
> Prayers for the victims, I hope they get justice.



Sweden was bombed not too long ago.


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## Two Thumbs

High_Gravity said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bombing Norway?
> 
> That's fucking stoopid on so many levels.  The last thing you want is the decendants of Vikings pissed off at you.
> 
> Prayers for the victims, I hope they get justice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sweden was bombed not too long ago.
Click to expand...


How did they respond?


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## High_Gravity

Two Thumbs said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bombing Norway?
> 
> That's fucking stoopid on so many levels.  The last thing you want is the decendants of Vikings pissed off at you.
> 
> Prayers for the victims, I hope they get justice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sweden was bombed not too long ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How did they respond?
Click to expand...


They didn't.


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## zzzz

> UPDATE: A powerful bomb explosion rocked central Oslo shortly before 3.30 on Friday afternoon, causing extensive damage to government offices, killing at least two people and injuring numerous more.
> 
> A large yellow cloud of smoke rose from the area seconds after the blast, which shook downtown buildings, and caused widespread panic in the streets. A shockwave made buildings sway and crushed windows all over Oslo.
> According to eyewitness reports obtained by Norwegian state broadcast NRK, the entrance to the main government highrise lay in ruins following the blast. The burned-out wreck of a car lay buried by large chunks of concrete, one NRK reporter said.
> The offices of VG, Norway&#8217;s largest newspaper, also appeared to be severely hit with many employees injured by flying glass.
> Shortly after 4 PM, more smoke could be seen and a cloud smelling of explosive gas was hanging over the city. Curtains could be seen flying from broken windows in the main government highrise. Fearing more explosions, police was busy cordoning off a large part of downtown.
> According to eyewitnesses, buses were taking injured, bleeding people out of the area. At Ullevål sykehus, Oslo&#8217;s main hospital, entire departments were being evacuated to clear space for victims of the blast.
> Norwegian news agency NTB reported that prime minister Jens Stoltenberg was in a safe location. Several government ministers were also confirmed safe, with others unaccounted for.
> We&#8217;ll be following the story.


BOMB ROCKS CENTRAL OSLO : Views and News from Norway


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## Ravi

Update at 11:45 a.m. ET. Terrorism Suspected; Some Victims Reportedly Trapped:

Aftenposten writes that while "experts are still cautious" about assigning blame if it turns out this was indeed a car bomb, they "expect it to be very likely that there are terrorists who are behind" it.

Norway has been part of the military campaigns in Afghanistan and Libya.

The Two-Way : NPR


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## hortysir

Norway *is *teamed up with NATO in Libya and Afghanistan, so I think the elderly Christian Gramma is the safest bet......


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## ekrem

Ravi said:


> Update at 11:45 a.m. ET. Terrorism Suspected; Some Victims Reportedly Trapped:
> 
> Aftenposten writes that while "experts are still cautious" about assigning blame if it turns out this was indeed a car bomb, they "expect it to be very likely that there are terrorists who are behind" it.
> 
> Norway has been part of the military campaigns in Afghanistan and Libya.
> 
> The Two-Way : NPR



After NATO started to terrorize Ghaddafi with "peaceful" civilians, who carry rocket-launchers, Ghadaffi said, that noone in Europe is safe.

Gaddafi threatens attacks in Europe | World news | The Guardian


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## Ravi

ekrem said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Update at 11:45 a.m. ET. Terrorism Suspected; Some Victims Reportedly Trapped:
> 
> Aftenposten writes that while "experts are still cautious" about assigning blame if it turns out this was indeed a car bomb, they "expect it to be very likely that there are terrorists who are behind" it.
> 
> Norway has been part of the military campaigns in Afghanistan and Libya.
> 
> The Two-Way : NPR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After NATO started to terrorize Ghaddafi with "peaceful" civilians, who carry rocket-launchers, Ghadaffi said, that noone in Europe is safe.
> 
> Gaddafi threatens attacks in Europe | World news | The Guardian
Click to expand...


So you think he's behind it, do you? Then we should certainly vaporize him.


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## Liability

ekrem said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Update at 11:45 a.m. ET. Terrorism Suspected; Some Victims Reportedly Trapped:
> 
> Aftenposten writes that while "experts are still cautious" about assigning blame if it turns out this was indeed a car bomb, they "expect it to be very likely that there are terrorists who are behind" it.
> 
> Norway has been part of the military campaigns in Afghanistan and Libya.
> 
> The Two-Way : NPR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After NATO started to terrorize Ghaddafi with "peaceful" civilians, who carry rocket-launchers, Ghadaffi said, that noone in Europe is safe.
> 
> Gaddafi threatens attacks in Europe | World news | The Guardian
Click to expand...


Ah, so the terrorism in Oslo IS justified.

Of course.

What were we thinking?


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## Si modo

ekrem said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Update at 11:45 a.m. ET. Terrorism Suspected; Some Victims Reportedly Trapped:
> 
> Aftenposten writes that while "experts are still cautious" about assigning blame if it turns out this was indeed a car bomb, they "expect it to be very likely that there are terrorists who are behind" it.
> 
> Norway has been part of the military campaigns in Afghanistan and Libya.
> 
> The Two-Way : NPR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After NATO started to terrorize Ghaddafi with "peaceful" civilians, who carry rocket-launchers, Ghadaffi said, that noone in Europe is safe.
> 
> Gaddafi threatens attacks in Europe | World news | The Guardian
Click to expand...

Cool.  Bombing the shit out of Libya is a good plan, then.


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## Ravi

Aftenposten now writes that "TV 2 News channel reported that police also have received notification of a critical situation on Utoya, where Labour Youth is holding its annual summer camp." Journalist Ketil B. Stensrud messages that the prime minister has said on Norwegian radio "there is a critical situation at Utoya and several ongoing operations as we speak."

The Two-Way : NPR


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## ekrem

Liability said:


> Ah, so the terrorism in Oslo IS justified.



I didn't justify anything.
I provided a link when the reference to Norway's involvement in terrorizing Libya came up.


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## Si modo

ekrem said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so the terrorism in Oslo IS justified.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't justify anything.
> I provided a link when the reference to Norway's involvement in terrorizing Libya came up.
Click to expand...

Of course you didn't.  Cowards are never direct.

So, cool.  We will continue bombing the shit out of Libya.


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## Ravi

A man disguised as a police officer began shooting where prime minister Jens Stoltenberg was attending a Labour party conference at Utoya, Stoltenberg has just confirmed.

    He said there is a 'critical and serious situation' where he is (but he is safe).

    He was speaking on the phone to Norwegian TV station TV2.

Oslo explosion - live coverage | World news | guardian.co.uk


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## Si modo

Ravi said:


> A man disguised as a police officer began shooting where prime minister Jens Stoltenberg was attending a Labour party conference at Utoya, Stoltenberg has just confirmed.
> 
> He said there is a 'critical and serious situation' where he is (but he is safe).
> 
> He was speaking on the phone to Norwegian TV station TV2.
> 
> Oslo explosion - live coverage | World news | guardian.co.uk


Dayum.  Shades of Mumbai, too.


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## ekrem

Si modo said:


> Of course you didn't.  Cowards are never direct.
> 
> So, cool.  We will continue bombing the shit out of Libya.



Maybe you'll shut your ****-mouth and join the bombing missions...
Then you can judge whether it's "cool" or not to "bomb the shit out of" people.


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## Si modo

ekrem said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you didn't.  Cowards are never direct.
> 
> So, cool.  We will continue bombing the shit out of Libya.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you'll shut your ****-mouth and join the bombing missions...
> Then you can judge whether it's "cool" or not to "bomb the shit out of" people.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's cool to bomb the shit out of anyone.  I do think it's cool that we have good reason.  And, my part in bombing is beyond what idiots imagine.


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## martybegan

Si modo said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> A man disguised as a police officer began shooting where prime minister Jens Stoltenberg was attending a Labour party conference at Utoya, Stoltenberg has just confirmed.
> 
> He said there is a 'critical and serious situation' where he is (but he is safe).
> 
> He was speaking on the phone to Norwegian TV station TV2.
> 
> Oslo explosion - live coverage | World news | guardian.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> Dayum.  Shades of Mumbai, too.
Click to expand...


Crap, breaking 8 hour rule. If this is true it shows a level of planning and complexity beyond your amatuer terrorist. The responders better watch thier asses for followup bombs/attacks.


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## Ravi

Si modo said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> A man disguised as a police officer began shooting where prime minister Jens Stoltenberg was attending a Labour party conference at Utoya, Stoltenberg has just confirmed.
> 
> He said there is a 'critical and serious situation' where he is (but he is safe).
> 
> He was speaking on the phone to Norwegian TV station TV2.
> 
> Oslo explosion - live coverage | World news | guardian.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> Dayum.  Shades of Mumbai, too.
Click to expand...

So far it hasn't been reported that this is related to the blasts.


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## Si modo

martybegan said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> A man disguised as a police officer began shooting where prime minister Jens Stoltenberg was attending a Labour party conference at Utoya, Stoltenberg has just confirmed.
> 
> He said there is a 'critical and serious situation' where he is (but he is safe).
> 
> He was speaking on the phone to Norwegian TV station TV2.
> 
> Oslo explosion - live coverage | World news | guardian.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> Dayum.  Shades of Mumbai, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Crap, breaking 8 hour rule. If this is true it shows a level of planning and complexity beyond your amatuer terrorist. The responders better watch thier asses for followup bombs/attacks.
Click to expand...

Yes.  This does seem pretty organized.


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## Liability

ekrem said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so the terrorism in Oslo IS justified.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't justify anything.
> I provided a link when the reference to Norway's involvement in terrorizing Libya came up.
Click to expand...


No you didn't.

You provided a link to Norway's involvement in the actions against Libya and you chose to LABEL it "terrorizing."

Your propaganda is transparent.


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## Si modo

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> A man disguised as a police officer began shooting where prime minister Jens Stoltenberg was attending a Labour party conference at Utoya, Stoltenberg has just confirmed.
> 
> He said there is a 'critical and serious situation' where he is (but he is safe).
> 
> He was speaking on the phone to Norwegian TV station TV2.
> 
> Oslo explosion - live coverage | World news | guardian.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> Dayum.  Shades of Mumbai, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So far it hasn't been reported that this is related to the blasts.
Click to expand...

No surprise.  They need to concentrate on security right now.  This is not good.


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## martybegan

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> A man disguised as a police officer began shooting where prime minister Jens Stoltenberg was attending a Labour party conference at Utoya, Stoltenberg has just confirmed.
> 
> He said there is a 'critical and serious situation' where he is (but he is safe).
> 
> He was speaking on the phone to Norwegian TV station TV2.
> 
> Oslo explosion - live coverage | World news | guardian.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> Dayum.  Shades of Mumbai, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So far it hasn't been reported that this is related to the blasts.
Click to expand...


good point. Still If i were part of the responders there I would be looking over my shoulder and calling for the bomb sniffing dogs.


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## Warrior102

I was in Oslo last September. What a BEAUTIFUL (and expense) place. God bless those people


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## Ravi

Google Translate

This is a translation of a Norweigian station's reporting on the shootings.


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## Si modo

Oslo, Norway, bomb blast kills 1, injures 15 | HeraldTribune.com


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## Si modo

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8j9ovEdtDA]&#x202a;Oslo Bomb explosion July 22 2011 Bomb attack Oslo Norway 22-07-2011&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]


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## Si modo

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olOIsFg5PpY]&#x202a;Two killed in Oslo bomb blast&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]


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## hjmick

What did the Wegians ever do to anybody...


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## Si modo

Fox is saying that Norway is sending anti-terrorism units to the youth camp where the shootings are occurring.


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## Ravi

OSLO - Norwegian police urged residents of Oslo Friday to avoid big gatherings and stay home after a powerful bomb rocked government and media buildings in the capital, causing deaths and injuries.

Norway police urge Oslo residents to stay home


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## hortysir

Si modo said:


> Fox is saying that Norway is sending anti-terrorism units to the youth camp where the shootings are occurring.



This is a totally separate attack!!


the summer camp is a little island off of Oslo.
Seems pretty well coordinated


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## Ravi

> After the NRK.no experience, the police now control at the site.
> 
> According to witnesses to be between five and six people being shot. More will be killed.
> 
> One witness says it was used both shotguns, handguns and automatic weapons.
> 
> - People were choked down, tells a caller who spoke with a relative on the island.
> 
> Relative was one of many who chose to swim to the mainland.



Google Translate


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## alexa

> A massive bomb blast has hit government buildings in the Norwegian capital Oslo, killing at least two people and injuring 15 others.
> 
> PM Jens Stoltenberg described the situation as "very serious".
> 
> The bomb was followed by a shooting incident near Oslo at a youth meeting of the Labour Party which Mr Stoltenberg leads.




BBC News - Oslo: Bomb blast near Norway prime minister's office

Edit:  still not to much information but updates here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14254705


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## GHook93

Ravi said:


> OSLO, Norway  A loud explosion has shattered windows at the government headquarters in Oslo which includes the prime minister's office, injuring several people.
> 
> Norwegian news agency NTB said the prime minister is safe.
> 
> An AP reporter says newspaper offices in the area are also damaged and smoke is drifting in the streets.
> 
> Explosion damages gov't building in Oslo - CBS News



Why do Islamic Radicals attack the countries that are the most antiIsrael and protect Radical Islam with a passion!


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## Ravi

6.40pm: Police are saying they believe the person(s) responsible for the bomb to be foreign, according to the BBC.

But the attacker in Utoya, now arrested, looked Norwegian, NRK reports (thanks to @Pb1231 for the link)

    Witnesses who have managed to escape from the island, says to NRK reporters on the spot that the perpetrator had a Norwegian look. He should be between 185 to 190 cm tall and have blond hair.

Oslo explosion - live coverage | World news | guardian.co.uk


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## GHook93

Ravi said:


> ekrem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Update at 11:45 a.m. ET. Terrorism Suspected; Some Victims Reportedly Trapped:
> 
> Aftenposten writes that while "experts are still cautious" about assigning blame if it turns out this was indeed a car bomb, they "expect it to be very likely that there are terrorists who are behind" it.
> 
> Norway has been part of the military campaigns in Afghanistan and Libya.
> 
> The Two-Way : NPR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After NATO started to terrorize Ghaddafi with "peaceful" civilians, who carry rocket-launchers, Ghadaffi said, that noone in Europe is safe.
> 
> Gaddafi threatens attacks in Europe | World news | The Guardian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you think he's behind it, do you? Then we should certainly vaporize him.
Click to expand...


No way it was him, he has too many fish to fry at home! I guarantee it was a home grown Islamist group made that liberal Norway didn't do something they demanded!


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## Si modo

GHook93 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ekrem said:
> 
> 
> 
> After NATO started to terrorize Ghaddafi with "peaceful" civilians, who carry rocket-launchers, Ghadaffi said, that noone in Europe is safe.
> 
> Gaddafi threatens attacks in Europe | World news | The Guardian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you think he's behind it, do you? Then we should certainly vaporize him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No way it was him, he has too many fish to fry at home! I guarantee it was a home grown Islamist group made that liberal Norway didn't do something they demanded!
Click to expand...

We don't know enough yet, but that is possible, especially considering that they broke up an Al Qaeda terror cell in Norway planning bombings about this time last year.


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## aplcr0331

The Norwegians have it coming with all of their cross country skiing and fish pickling. Islam will not stand for such outrages. Must kill them all! 

Unless of course it was the middle-aged white guys.


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## Ravi

Norwegian police say they believe there is a connection between the Oslo bombing and Labour party youth camp shootings on the island of Utoeya.

BBC News - Oslo bomb - latest updates


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## hortysir

I heard that the PM was set to appear at the youth camp tomorrow.
Somebody was trying to cover all their bases


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## Liability

The Summer Camp thing seems to be even more deadly than the car bombing.  It was evidently (?) orchestrated.  

Now the question arises if there's other shit planned by the cowardly bastards.


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## alexa

BBC said 20 to 25 killed at Youth camp.  A far right group is among the suspects and the bombing being done at a time when most people were off work does not go with how Al Qaeda usually work.

The are also considering a Libyan connection but think that is unlikely.


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## High_Gravity

What in gods name is going on over in Norway?


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## dilloduck

hjmick said:


> What did the Wegians ever do to anybody...



They tell mean jokes about the swedes.


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## martybegan

alexa said:


> BBC said 20 to 25 killed at Youth camp.  A far right group is among the suspects and the bombing being done at a time when most people were off work does not go with how Al Qaeda usually work.
> 
> The are also considering a Libyan connection but think that is unlikely.



Every single leftie and Islamic Terrorist Sypathizer is PRAYING that this can be somehow pegged on the right.

Does Norway even have a "Right" anymore?


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## hortysir

High_Gravity said:


> What in gods name is going on over in Norway?


Bombings and shootings.

You haven't heard?


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## hortysir

martybegan said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> BBC said 20 to 25 killed at Youth camp.  A far right group is among the suspects and the bombing being done at a time when most people were off work does not go with how Al Qaeda usually work.
> 
> The are also considering a Libyan connection but think that is unlikely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every single leftie and Islamic Terrorist Sypathizer is PRAYING that this can be somehow pegged on the right.
> 
> Does Norway even have a "Right" anymore?
Click to expand...


Maybe it *WAS* the Teapartiers


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## alexa

The far right are being considered because the island was a labour youth group event and the bomb was near the government building so it seems to be more aimed, they believe, at the Government.

There is no obvious perpetrator. To make it worse they are expecting several groups to try and take 'credit'


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## martybegan

alexa said:


> The far right are being considered because the island was a labour youth group event and the bomb was near the government building so it seems to be more aimed, they believe, at the Government.
> 
> There is no obvious perpetrator. To make it worse they are expecting several groups to try and take 'credit'



BBC News - Oslo: Bomb blast near Norway prime minister&#039;s office

BBC web link. ZERO reference to right wing groups.


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## GHook93

martybegan said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> The far right are being considered because the island was a labour youth group event and the bomb was near the government building so it seems to be more aimed, they believe, at the Government.
> 
> There is no obvious perpetrator. To make it worse they are expecting several groups to try and take 'credit'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBC News - Oslo: Bomb blast near Norway prime minister's office
> 
> BBC web link. ZERO reference to right wing groups.
Click to expand...


Of course, because Alexa is making shit up. She is dumb troubled little girl! 

Rightist in Norway, LOL, they haven't had any of those types in years!


----------



## alexa

martybegan said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> The far right are being considered because the island was a labour youth group event and the bomb was near the government building so it seems to be more aimed, they believe, at the Government.
> 
> There is no obvious perpetrator. To make it worse they are expecting several groups to try and take 'credit'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBC News - Oslo: Bomb blast near Norway prime minister's office
> 
> BBC web link. ZERO reference to right wing groups.
Click to expand...


That may be so.  They will only be listing what is known.  However I have been listening to news 24 discussions.  If/when they know who it is or if someone claims responsibility or they confirm who has been arrested then they will say it there.

However like it or not the far right is one of the main possibility which has been discussed.


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## Jos

> Norways foreign minister has announced that the country will be among the first to recognise a Palestinian state if negotiations with Israel fail to make headway by September. A nine-month deadline has been set by the Palestinians for proclaiming independence, which would also coincide with the completion of Prime Minister Salam Fayyads two-year effort to set up the basic institutions of a state.
> 
> Speaking in Ramallah, Norwegian foreign minister Jonas Gahr Stoere said Oslo is striving to help with the development of the Palestinian economy but still believes that the political process towards peace could be a success.



Read more: Norway to recognise Palestine if peace talks fail | IceNews - Daily News


----------



## martybegan

alexa said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> The far right are being considered because the island was a labour youth group event and the bomb was near the government building so it seems to be more aimed, they believe, at the Government.
> 
> There is no obvious perpetrator. To make it worse they are expecting several groups to try and take 'credit'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBC News - Oslo: Bomb blast near Norway prime minister's office
> 
> BBC web link. ZERO reference to right wing groups.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That may be so.  They will only be listing what is known.  However I have been listening to news 24 discussions.  If/when they know who it is or if someone claims responsibility or they confirm who has been arrested then they will say it there.
> 
> However like it or not the far right is one of the main possibility which has been discussed.
Click to expand...


I really doubt it. I have imposed a 8hr rule on myself before I speculate on who I think did it, but right wing?


----------



## Liability

They used a car bomb to attack civilians and then they opened up on a CAMP.

It takes no Sherlock Holmes to see who is behind that kind of violent cowardice.

Islamo-Jihadist-scumbags.


----------



## alexa

martybegan said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> 
> BBC News - Oslo: Bomb blast near Norway prime minister's office
> 
> BBC web link. ZERO reference to right wing groups.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That may be so.  They will only be listing what is known.  However I have been listening to news 24 discussions.  If/when they know who it is or if someone claims responsibility or they confirm who has been arrested then they will say it there.
> 
> However like it or not the far right is one of the main possibility which has been discussed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I really doubt it. I have imposed a 8hr rule on myself before I speculate on who I think did it, but right wing?
Click to expand...


I myself have no idea yet either.  I was just reporting what I had heard.  The one bit that did belong to my own thinking was that Al Qaeda usually chooses a time when it can get the most causalities and this was done when most people were not at work.  It struck me that that did not fit in with their usual tactics.


----------



## Ravi

Who ever did it is shit.


----------



## Kiki Cannoli

This article states terrorism, but I haven't read that a group claimed responsibility.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/0..._n_906683.html#s313974&title=Norway_Explosion


----------



## GHook93

And what does this say about the mind of the Islamofacist and appeasing Islamic Terrorist! They don't give a fuck what you do. Appease all you want, we will still seek to kill and terrorize you!

Appease does nothing! The Left's unholy alliance with Islamofacists will bite them in the ass, but then again liberalism is a mental disorder!



Jos said:


> Norways foreign minister has announced that the country will be among the first to recognise a Palestinian state if negotiations with Israel fail to make headway by September. A nine-month deadline has been set by the Palestinians for proclaiming independence, which would also coincide with the completion of Prime Minister Salam Fayyads two-year effort to set up the basic institutions of a state.
> 
> Speaking in Ramallah, Norwegian foreign minister Jonas Gahr Stoere said Oslo is striving to help with the development of the Palestinian economy but still believes that the political process towards peace could be a success.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: Norway to recognise Palestine if peace talks fail | IceNews - Daily News
Click to expand...


----------



## Jos

> Norway has been hit by twin attacks - a massive bomb blast in the capital and a shooting attack on young people at a governing Labour Party youth camp.
> 
> At least seven people were killed in the bombing, which inflicted huge damage on government buildings in Oslo city centre.
> 
> Four more died at the camp, on an island outside Oslo, local media said.
> 
> One witness later said he had seen more than 20 bodies on the island, but police have not confirmed this.
> 
> Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg, whose Oslo offices were among those damaged by the bomb, described the situation as "very serious".
> 
> Norwegian media reports said the shootings on the island were carried out by a man in police uniform.
> 
> Police said the suspected gunman had been arrested, and later said he was also linked with the bomb attack, reports said.


BBC News - Norway hit by deadly bomb and shooting attacks


----------



## Jos

*A previous terror attack in Norway*
Lillehammer affair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## alexa

Police are saying that the Nordic looking person arrested on the island had previously been seen in Oslo giving rise to speculation that he might have done both.

Police have confirmed 9 or maybe 10 dead on island and I am not sure whether it was the island or Oslo but he spoke of in the region of 100 injured.


----------



## strollingbones

martybegan said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> BBC said 20 to 25 killed at Youth camp.  A far right group is among the suspects and the bombing being done at a time when most people were off work does not go with how Al Qaeda usually work.
> 
> The are also considering a Libyan connection but think that is unlikely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every single leftie and Islamic Terrorist Sypathizer is PRAYING that this can be somehow pegged on the right.
> 
> Does Norway even have a "Right" anymore?[/QUOTE
> 
> try not to be a fucking idiot.....it doesnt matter if it was right or left or middle...people died ....try not to make a political issue of it..
Click to expand...


----------



## Ravi

A terror group, Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami, or the Helpers of the Global Jihad, issued a statement claiming responsibility for the attack, according to Will McCants, a terrorism analyst at C.N.A., a research institute that studies terrorism. The message said the attack was a response to Norwegian forces presence in Afghanistan and to unspecified insults to the Prophet Muhammad. We have warned since the Stockholm raid of more operations, the group said, according to Mr. McCants translation, apparently referring to a bombing in Sweden in December 2010. What you see is only the beginning, and there is more to come. The claim could not be confirmed. It is not uncommon for terrorist groups to advance claims of responsibility for high-profile attacks, only to have the claims prove to be spurious. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23oslo.html?_r=1&hp


----------



## strollingbones

why not wait for the evidence to come in before any judgements are made....the shooter of the kids....that just shocks me....i never understand the desire to kill


----------



## alexa

Ravi said:


> A terror group, Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami, or the Helpers of the Global Jihad, issued a statement claiming responsibility for the attack, according to Will McCants, a terrorism analyst at C.N.A., a research institute that studies terrorism. The message said the attack was a response to Norwegian forces presence in Afghanistan and to unspecified insults to the Prophet Muhammad. We have warned since the Stockholm raid of more operations, the group said, according to Mr. McCants translation, apparently referring to a bombing in Sweden in December 2010. What you see is only the beginning, and there is more to come. The claim could not be confirmed. It is not uncommon for terrorist groups to advance claims of responsibility for high-profile attacks, only to have the claims prove to be spurious.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23oslo.html?_r=1&hp



This seems to have been as a hoax. Jonathan Paris certainly confirmed that.


----------



## Jos

The man arrested is reported to be 6ft tall, blonde and spoke Norwegian.

Simen Braende Mortensen, a guard on the boat to Utoya Island, told VG newspaper he saw a man, aged between 30 to 40-years-old, in a police uniform and bulletproof vest drive on to the boat in a silver van.

He apparently had a pistol and a rifle with telescopic sight, had a Norwegian look and spoke in a common eastern dialect.

Read more: MASSACRE AT KIDS' CAMP: More than 30 dead as terrorist opens fire at Norwegian summer camp and car bomb devastates Oslo | Mail Online
The justice minister has just confirmed the suspect arrested today at the youth camp in Utoeya was Norwegian.


----------



## Liability

strollingbones said:


> why not wait for the evidence to come in before any judgements are made....the shooter of the kids....that just shocks me....i never understand the desire to kill



That is actually a good idea.  But the guesswork is ok, too. 

It's not like we're going to taint a jury or anything.


----------



## chanel

Exactly. This is a message board. We opine and speculate on the news. And we never have ALL the facts - esp. when it comes to complex security matters.

Shooting children does not surprise me. That's what evildoers do.


----------



## Ravi

Heard on the radio that now it looks like the gunman was also the one who set off the bomb and he went to the island under the pretext of telling the campers what was going on in Oslo before he started shooting them.


----------



## strollingbones

the death toll is from the island shootings....

now saying 30 or more but the number is bouncing up and down....a lot of the kids are in hiding...


----------



## Ravi

The police there have also reported unexploded explosives on the island. Or a reporter reported that the police said that.


----------



## strollingbones

now they are saying its a local man..


----------



## Liability

strollingbones said:


> now they are saying its a local man..



The shooter is a local [blonde native speaking(?)] militant or some such thing.  

Doesn't mean he's not a Jhadist.

We have OUR own white home grown Jihadists, too.

ANd the shooter may or may not be the bomber.


----------



## GHook93

alexa said:


> Police are saying that the Nordic looking person arrested on the island had previously been seen in Oslo giving rise to speculation that he might have done both.
> 
> Police have confirmed 9 or maybe 10 dead on island and I am not sure whether it was the island or Oslo but he spoke of in the region of 100 injured.



i can't neg you again! Funny how you still produce no sources and all the major news network aren't stating anything on it!


----------



## Ravi

The police seem to think he is also the bomber.


----------



## waltky

Slaughter at youth camp too...

*Norway ripped by Oslo bomb, youth camp shootings*
_Jul 22,`11 - Norway's peace was shattered twice Friday when a bomb ripped open buildings in the heart of its government and a man dressed as a police officer gunned down youths at a summer camp. Police linked one Norwegian to both attacks, which killed a total of at least 16 people in nation's worst violence since World War II._


> Police said they did not know the motive or whether the attacks were the work of one person or a terrorist group, but Justice Minister Knut Storberget said the man who opened fire at the youth camp is Norwegian.  In Oslo, the capital and the city where the Nobel Peace Prize is awarded, the bombing left a square covered in twisted metal, shattered glass, documents expelled from surrounding buildings and a dust-fogged scene that reminded one visitor from New York of Sept. 11.  Ian Dutton, who was in a nearby hotel, people "just covered in rubble" were walking through "a fog of debris."
> 
> "It wasn't any sort of a panic," he said, "It was really just people in disbelief and shock."  Later at Utoya island, some 60 miles (100 kilometers) northwest, hundreds of youths at a camp where the prime minister had been scheduled to speak Saturday ran in terror and even tried swimming to safety as the gunman fired. Emilie Bersaas, identified by Sky News television as one of the youths on the island, said she ran inside a school building and hid under a bed.  "At one point the shooting was very, very close (to) the building, I think actually it actually hit the building one time, and the people in the next room screamed very loud," she said.
> 
> "I laid under the bed for two hours and then the police smashed a window and came in," Bersaas said. "It seems kind of unreal, especially in Norway. This is not something that could happen here."  Police said seven people died in the Oslo blast, and another 9 or 10 people were killed at the camp, which was organized by the youth wing of the ruling Labor Party. Acting national Police Chief Sveinung Sponheim said a man was arrested in the shooting, and the suspect had been observed in Oslo before the explosion there. Police did not immediately say how much time elapsed between the bombing and the camp attack.  Sponheim said the camp shooter "wore a sweater with a police sign on it. I can confirm that he wasn't a police employee and never has been."
> 
> Aerial images broadcast by Norway's TV2 showed members of a SWAT team dressed in black arriving at the island in boats and running up the dock. Behind them, people stripped down to their underwear swam away from the island toward shore, some using flotation devices.  Sponheim said police were still trying to get an overview of the camp shooting and could not say whether there was more than one shooter. He said several people were injured but he could not comment on their conditions.  In Oslo, most of the windows in the 20-floor high-rise where Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg and his administration work were shattered. Other buildings damaged house government offices and the headquarters of some of Norway's leading newspapers. and that rescuers were to search damaged buildings through the night for more victims.
> 
> MORE


----------



## Liability

Ravi said:


> The police seem to think he is also the bomber.



Very interesting.  

I wonder, if that's true, whether he had help?  Was he a lone nut or was he working on behalf of some "group?"


----------



## alexa

GHook93 said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Police are saying that the Nordic looking person arrested on the island had previously been seen in Oslo giving rise to speculation that he might have done both.
> 
> Police have confirmed 9 or maybe 10 dead on island and I am not sure whether it was the island or Oslo but he spoke of in the region of 100 injured.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i can't neg you again! Funny how you still produce no sources and all the major news network aren't stating anything on it!
Click to expand...


Your sources as always are your own perverted mind.  Mine was BBC News 24.  If you did not have such a need for it to be Muslims regardless of whether it is in reality or not, you would not need to get your nickers in such a twist when other people prefer to report what their news is saying rather than your prejudices.

What is the point of your neg reps?  You think they will intimidate people to lie?


----------



## saveliberty

President Obama has labeled this a terrorist attack.  Just saw him mouth the words on NBC.  How is it he is better informed on international events than domestic terror acts?


----------



## Trajan

pretty good running synopsis here;

note;

Update at 10:14 a.m. ET: Although the source of the blast is unclear, Al-Jazeera TV notes that Norwegian prosecutors on Tuesday filed a terrorism charge against Mullah Krekar, founder of the Kurdish Islamist group Ansar al-Islam. Mullah Krekar is accused of threatening a former minister, Erna Solberg, with death, Al-Jazeera says.

17 dead in Oslo bombing, shootings; Norwegian held - On Deadline - USATODAY.com


----------



## alexa

Trajan said:


> pretty good running synopsis here;
> 
> note;
> 
> Update at 10:14 a.m. ET: Although the source of the blast is unclear, Al-Jazeera TV notes that Norwegian prosecutors on Tuesday filed a terrorism charge against Mullah Krekar, founder of the Kurdish Islamist group Ansar al-Islam. Mullah Krekar is accused of threatening a former minister, Erna Solberg, with death, Al-Jazeera says.
> 
> 17 dead in Oslo bombing, shootings; Norwegian held - On Deadline - USATODAY.com



The Al-Jazeera article that that came from also says



> Independent Norwegian television TV2 reported, without disclosing its sources, that the detained man has links to right-wing extremism.



Deadly twin attacks shock Norway - Europe - Al Jazeera English

They have a man or the man.  That's the important thing. Norway say we may get more information tomorrow.


----------



## WillowTree

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> This report says the site of the explosion was a tabloid newspaper.
> Explosion at tabloid newspaper VG near Norwegian PM's office | Herald Sun
> 
> 
> 
> Did they print cartoons?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Could be....I know that some Norwegian papers printed the Danish cartoons.
Click to expand...


What do old white Christisans care about cartoons?


----------



## Ravi

WillowTree said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did they print cartoons?
> 
> 
> 
> Could be....I know that some Norwegian papers printed the Danish cartoons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do old white Christisans care about cartoons?
Click to expand...

Nothing. But apparently this man is a home grown terrorist with no ties to anyone in the terrorist world.

In other words, he's nothing but a disgruntled fucktard.

At this point, no one is reporting what his problem was.


----------



## martybegan

Ravi said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could be....I know that some Norwegian papers printed the Danish cartoons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do old white Christisans care about cartoons?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing. But apparently this man is a home grown terrorist with no ties to anyone in the terrorist world.
> 
> In other words, he's nothing but a disgruntled fucktard.
> 
> At this point, no one is reporting what his problem was.
Click to expand...


As the reports come in the chance he's a righty/facist type appear to be increasing. I thought Norway got rid of those guys when they hung Vidkun Quisling. 

Although with the problems they been having with being unable to integrate thier immigrant middle eastern population I guess a backlash would be inevitable, if this turns out to be the case.

Could still be a jihaddi, or even a good old fashioned wacko, but if a wacko a pretty well coordinated one.


----------



## Ravi

martybegan said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do old white Christisans care about cartoons?
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing. But apparently this man is a home grown terrorist with no ties to anyone in the terrorist world.
> 
> In other words, he's nothing but a disgruntled fucktard.
> 
> At this point, no one is reporting what his problem was.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As the reports come in the chance he's a righty/facist type appear to be increasing. I thought Norway got rid of those guys when they hung Vidkun Quisling.
> 
> Although with the problems they been having with being unable to integrate thier immigrant middle eastern population I guess a backlash would be inevitable, if this turns out to be the case.
> 
> Could still be a jihaddi, or even a good old fashioned wacko, but if a wacko a pretty well coordinated one.
Click to expand...


I would be happier if it was a jihadist. At least we can all agree to hate them. I think if he turns out to be something else we will just use it to bash each other over the head.


----------



## martybegan

Ravi said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing. But apparently this man is a home grown terrorist with no ties to anyone in the terrorist world.
> 
> In other words, he's nothing but a disgruntled fucktard.
> 
> At this point, no one is reporting what his problem was.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the reports come in the chance he's a righty/facist type appear to be increasing. I thought Norway got rid of those guys when they hung Vidkun Quisling.
> 
> Although with the problems they been having with being unable to integrate thier immigrant middle eastern population I guess a backlash would be inevitable, if this turns out to be the case.
> 
> Could still be a jihaddi, or even a good old fashioned wacko, but if a wacko a pretty well coordinated one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would be happier if it was a jihadist. At least we can all agree to hate them. I think if he turns out to be something else we will just use it to bash each other over the head.
Click to expand...


Not everyone. A righty will split the board down the middle, a jihaddi will still have his usual supporters, who I probably don't have to name.


----------



## DiAnna

A horrible pair of tragedies for the Norweigians.  My heart goes out to them.


----------



## Ravi

This is ironic, considering the first several responses to this thread.

Suspect in deadly Norway attacks named - World news - Europe - msnbc.com


----------



## KissMy

Norway horror: 80 die in camp shooting + 7 in blast

It is like shooting fish in a barrel when people do not pack a gun to take out a terrorist.


----------



## Chris

Norwegian TV2 reports that Breivik belongs to "right-wing circles" in Oslo. Swedish news site Expressen adds that he has been known to write to right-wing forums in Norway, is a self-described nationalist and has also written a number of posts critical of Islam.

A Twitter account for Breivik has surfaced, though it only has one post, this quote from philosopher John Stuart Mill: "One person with a belief is equal to the force of 100 000 who have only interests." The tweet was posted on July 17.

On a Facebook account that Norwegian media outlets have attributed to Breivik, he describes himself as having Christian, conservative views. He says he enjoys hunting, the games World of Warcraft and Modern Warfare 2, and lives in Oslo. He also lists political analysis and stock analysis as interests.

Anders Behring Breivik Identified As Suspect In Norway Shooting


----------



## QUENTIN

So it was a blond-haired, blue-eyed, Norwegian conservative Christian who perpetrated the terrorist attack.

Do those who mocked the idea this could have been anyone but Muslim extremists have anything to say about that now?


----------



## Jos

> Helpers of the Global Jihad have since issued a retraction of their earlier statement claiming that they caused the bombing in central Oslo.
> 
> An Islamic extremist alleging to be Abu Suleiman Al-Nasser originally claimed responsibility for the attacks. However, Iraqi security forces claimed to have shot dead a man named Al-Nasser Lideen Allah Abu Suleiman, who had well-documented links to Al-Qaeda, in February this year. It is not unheard of for Al-Qaeda extremists to claim responsibility for acts of terrorism which are not their own.
> 
> The Helpers of Global Jihad group, of which al-Nasser is a member, originally made the claims in an email circular issued to various sources. The group does not appear to have any past history.


Islamic extremist claims responsibility for Oslo bombing, group retracts / News / The Foreigner &#8212; Norwegian News in English.
*I wonder where this rumor started?*


----------



## waltky

Norway's 9/11...

*At least 80 dead in shooting, suspect held*
_July 22,`11 (UPI) -- A suspect was being held in two explosions at a Norwegian government complex in Oslo and a shooting at a youth camp that left at least 80 dead, police said._


> Police were questioning a 32-year-old suspect in both attacks, the BBC reported.  A witness told Norwegian state broadcaster NRK a man wearing a police uniform fired on campers on Utoya island, The Daily Telegraph reported. Reports of the number of dead in the explosions ranged from seven to 16, with 15 injured.  The explosions in Oslo appeared to be a bomb attack, The New York Times reported.
> 
> The Times said a terror group, Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami (the Helpers of the Global Jihad), issued a statement claiming responsibility. The Wall Street Journal said al-Qaida offshoots are in Norway and neighboring Sweden. The groups' leaders considered Osama bin Laden a religious and philosophical guide, but have worked independently.  However, police said a man suspected in the shooting at the camp -- a Norwegian described as tall and blond -- was also linked with the bomb attack, the BBC reported.
> 
> Ole Tarp, a reporter for NRK, told the BBC there were reports the suspect was armed with a handgun, an automatic weapon and a shotgun.  "He travelled on the ferry boat from the mainland over to that little inland island posing as a police officer, saying he was there to do research in connection with the bomb blasts," Tarp said. "He asked people to gather round and then he started shooting, so these young people fled into the bushes and woods and some even swam off the island to get to safety."
> 
> Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg, whose Oslo offices were damaged by the explosion, called the attacks "bloody and cowardly." He told reporters at a news conference his nation has been "shaken by evil" but its democracy and ideals will survive, the BBC reported.  "We are a small nation and a proud nation," he said. "No-one will bomb us to silence no-one will shoot us to silence."  Calling Norwegian television, he said all government ministers were believed to be safe but police had advised him not to reveal his current location.  Officials said some of the damaged buildings were on fire and people were still inside.
> 
> Read more: World News - UPI.com



See also:

*Obama Expresses Condolences to Norway Over Attacks*
_July 22, 2011 - President Barack Obama has expressed his condolences to the Norwegian people over the bomb explosion that devastated a government building in the Norwegian capital, Oslo.  Mr. Obama was briefed on the explosion in Oslo, and on reports of shootings at a youth camp outside the Norwegian capital, by his counter-terrorism adviser, John Brennan._


> The explosion in Oslo hit the headquarters building that houses the office of Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg. The prime minister was not present at the location, and none of his staff were  injured.  It's not known if the two incidents were related.  Mr. Obama spoke about the incidents in remarks to reporters after his meeting in the Oval Office Friday with New Zealand Prime Minister John Key.
> 
> "I wanted to personally extend my condolence to the people of Norway, and it's a reminder that the entire international community has a stake in preventing this kind of terror from occurring, and that we have to work  cooperatively together both on intelligence and in terms of prevention of these kinds of horrible attacks," he said.    Mr. Obama said the U.S. will provide any support to Norway as officials there investigate the incidents.
> 
> Prime Minister Key also spoke about the situation in Norway.  "If it is an act of global terrorism I think it shows that no country, large or small, is immune from that risk, and that is why New Zealand plays its part in Afghanistan as we try and join others like the United States in making the world a safer place," he said.  The separate incident occurred Friday on an island off Norway's west coast, north of Oslo, where a gathering of the prime minister's Labor Party youth section was taking place. Initial reports said a man dressed as a policeman opened fire.  Norway has been a participant in the NATO military campaign in Libya against the forces loyal to Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi, and has had a small contingent of troops in the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan.
> 
> In his remarks, President Obama said he and Prime Minister Key discussed security cooperation and New Zealand's contributions in Afghanistan.  The president also praised the resilience of New Zealand's people in the wake of earthquakes that hit the city of Christchurch.  Mr. Obama said they also discussed a wide range of regional issues, including those being discussed by ministers at an Asian security meeting on the Indonesian island of Bali.
> 
> Source


----------



## CitizenPained

Has anyone blamed Mossad yet?


----------



## Colin

dilloduck said:


> hjmick said:
> 
> 
> 
> What did the Wegians ever do to anybody...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They tell mean jokes about the swedes.
Click to expand...


Fucking funny ain't it! 87 dead and you think it appropriate to make jokes. You sick bastard!


----------



## Jos

* The terrorist who bombed downtown Oslo and shot numerous children at summer camp was an Anti-Islam nationalist:*


> In online debates marks Anders Behring Breivik as well read, and one with strong opinions about Norwegian politics. He promotes a very conservative opinions, which he also called nationalist. He expresses himself strongly opposed to multiculturalism - that cultural differences can live together in a community.
> 
> Breivik has had many posts on the site Document.no, an Islam-critical site that publishes news and commentary.
> 
> In one of the posts he states that politics today no longer revolves around socialism against capitalism, but that the fight is between nationalism and internationalism. He expressed clear support for the nationalist mindset.
> 
> Anders Breivik Behring has also commented on the Swedish news articles, where he makes it clear that he believes the media have failed by not being "NOK" Islam-critical.









Washington's Blog

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fjordman


> *Fjordman blogged on his own web log in 2005, giving it up at the end of the year. According to the site counter, by May 2007 the blog had more than a million hits.[1] Fjordman has since continued writing, "guesting" in other blogs such as Brussels Journal, Gates of Vienna and islam-watch.org. Fjordman published a compilation of his articles in print via lulu.com in November 2008.
> 
> Fjordman was widely regarded by other blogs critical of Islam as an expert in his field. Robert Spencer of Jihad Watch calls him the "great European essayist"[2] and "the superb European writer".[3] He is generally referred to as the "noted"[4][5][6] blogger.
> 
> His articles, which are often lengthy, are widely quoted in various blogs and right-wing sites critical of Islam, such as Global Politician,[7] FrontPageMag,[8] Jihad Watch,[9] Brussels Journal,[10] Faith Freedom International,[11] Little Green Footballs,[12] Free Republic and Daily Pundit[13] among others, and quite often printed verbatim. Earlier, he also wrote sporadically for the Norwegian site Document.no.[14]
> 
> He has also been cited in books and articles as a representative of anti-Muslim viewpoints.[15][16][17][18] He contributed with an appendix in the 2010 book by Ole Jørgen Anfindsen, Selvmordsparadigmet &#8211; hvordan politisk korrekthet ødelegger samfunnet (lit. "The Suicide Paradigm &#8211; how political correctness destroys society").[19]
> [edit]*


----------



## alexa

update from the Guardian.



> *A police official said the suspect appears to have acted alone in both attacks, and that "it seems that this is not linked to any international terrorist organisations". The official spoke on condition of anonymity because that information had not been officially released by Norway's police.*
> 
> *The official said the attack "is probably more Norway's Oklahoma City than it is Norway's World Trade Center."
> 
> The motive was unknown, but both attacks were in areas connected to the ruling Labour party government. The youth camp, about 20 miles northwest of Oslo, is organised by the party's youth wing, and the prime minister had been scheduled to speak there on Saturday.*
> 
> The blast in Oslo left a square covered in twisted metal, shattered glass and documents expelled from surrounding buildings. Most of the windows in the block where the prime minister, Jens Stoltenberg, and his administration work were shattered.
> 
> The police official who spoke on condition of anonymity said the Oslo bombing occurred at 3.26pm local time, and the camp shootings began one to two hours later. The official said the gunman used automatic weapons and handguns, and that there was at least one unexploded device at the youth camp that a police bomb disposal team and military experts were disarming.



Norway attack: at least 80 die in Utøya shooting, seven in Oslo bombing | World news | guardian.co.uk


----------



## alexa

from Associated Press



> National police chief Sveinung Sponheim told NRK that the suspected gunman's Internet postings "suggest that he has some political traits directed toward the right, and anti-Muslim views, but whether that was a motivation for the actual act remains to be seen."
> 
> Andersen said the suspect posted on websites with Christian fundamentalist tendencies. He did not describe the websites in any more details.
> 
> A police official said the suspect appears to have acted alone in both attacks, and that "it seems like this is not linked to any international terrorist organizations at all." The official spoke on condition of anonymity because that information had not been officially released by Norway's police.



91 killed in Norway island massacre, capital blast | World news | guardian.co.uk


----------



## Chris

The Norwegian Timothy McVey.


----------



## strollingbones

91 kids gone.....i cant imagine the horror.....

our area is small....91 kids would take about all our kids....


----------



## strollingbones

and no matter who did this....it is an act of terrorism...


----------



## Ringel05

strollingbones said:


> and no matter who did this....it is an act of terrorism...



True.  Unfortunately there are too many here who wish to score partisan political points with this tragedy.


----------



## Liability

Horror is certainly the right word.


----------



## Ravi

The police say that the guy is "keen" to explain himself.

I also read, and I hope this isn't true, that the maximum penalty in Norway would only be 21 years.


----------



## Colin

Ringel05 said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> and no matter who did this....it is an act of terrorism...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True.  Unfortunately there are too many here who wish to score partisan political points with this tragedy.
Click to expand...


And there are some in this thread who should hang their heads in shame!


----------



## strollingbones

now that it is revealed the shooter was a right wing christian...what do yall have to say?

are you willling to condemn christians like yall did muslims when you were so sure this was islamic attack?  well?


----------



## chanel

Condemn "Christians"?  It seems this guy was working alone.  He should be executed.


----------



## alexa

QUENTIN said:


> So it was a blond-haired, blue-eyed, Norwegian conservative Christian who perpetrated the terrorist attack.
> 
> Do those who mocked the idea this could have been anyone but Muslim extremists have anything to say about that now?



They are fanatical.  GHook gave me a neg rep for reporting that right wingers were among the suspects and Warrior 101 gave me a neg rep for reporting that the NY claim of a Gihad group being responsible  was a hoax.

Both of them far more interested in expressing their hatred of Islam rather than trying to find the truth of a situation where so many were murdered, in particular children. Their fanaticism goes as far as neg repping people who tell the truth!


----------



## strollingbones

chanel said:


> Condemn "Christians"?  It seems this guy was working alone.  He should be executed.




everyone was quite ready to condemn muslims...why not christians.....seems to me...both religions are equally as dangerous to free thinkers


----------



## chanel

Well Alexa there is another thread where people are gloating over the fact that he's not Muslim  Welcome to USMB.


----------



## strollingbones

no one is gloating about dead kids...but it was funny how quick some were to say it was muslims and to condemn them.....but now that its a right wing christian....no need to discuss that....


----------



## Liability

strollingbones said:


> now that it is revealed the shooter was a right wing christian...what do yall have to say?
> 
> are you willling to condemn christians like yall did muslims when you were so sure this was islamic attack?  well?



When a tenet of Christian faith is to "convert by the sword," let's talk about that, again.

I am one of the ones who speculated that the Norway bombing yesterday was likely the handiwork of some Jihadist.  That doesn't constitute a condemnation of all Muslims.  But, it turns out to (probably) have been a bad guess in this case.


----------



## chanel

strollingbones said:


> chanel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Condemn "Christians"?  It seems this guy was working alone.  He should be executed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> everyone was quite ready to condemn muslims...why not christians.....seems to me...both religions are equally as dangerous to free thinkers
Click to expand...


Because bones (and I can only speak for myself), it seemed this was a highly organized terrorist attack with the earmarks of a group such as AQ or a splinter group waging global jihad.  There certainly were threats.

It was not.  It was done by one fanatical Christian man who may or may not be a religious zealot.  

Sorry hon.  The religions are not equally dangerous.  "Christianity" is not a religion.


----------



## strollingbones

speculation even on the net....has consequences.....

homegrown terrorist seem to be the worse.....unabomber, dc sniper,  ok city (where kids were targeted even if indirectly) lots of homegrown nuts out there....

i dont care why you strap on the bomb or load the gun......if you are killing innocents then you are evil

i dont care what god you claim to follow....i care how you behave


----------



## alexa

chanel said:


> Well Alexa there is another thread where people are gloating over the fact that he's not Muslim  Welcome to USMB.



maybe but have you seen me posting in that thread?


----------



## Liability

strollingbones said:


> speculation even on the net....has consequences.....
> 
> homegrown terrorist seem to be the worse.....unabomber, dc sniper,  ok city (where kids were targeted even if indirectly) lots of homegrown nuts out there....
> 
> i dont care why you strap on the bomb or load the gun......if you are killing innocents then you are evil
> 
> i dont care what god you claim to follow....i care how you behave



The speculation on the internet in *this* case -- for a horror perpetrated overseas -- has effectively no real-world consequences whatsoever.

On the other hand, the murder of innocents by any group or individual  in the name of any "God"  is indeed evil.


----------



## Ringel05

strollingbones said:


> chanel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Condemn "Christians"?  It seems this guy was working alone.  He should be executed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> everyone was quite ready to condemn muslims...why not christians.....seems to me...both religions are equally as dangerous to free thinkers
Click to expand...


I don't see how that was necessary either.  Damn people, stop letting you biases and hatreds get in the way of your humanity.


----------



## chanel

No I haven't Alexa. But don't take it personally. Pos rep your way.

Bones is right. It's a horrific tragedy regardless of motivation.


----------



## Colin

chanel said:


> Condemn "Christians"?  It seems this guy was working alone.  He should be executed.



Different had it been done by a lone muslim, eh, Chanel! Doesn't take much for the likes of bigots like you to blame all muslims!


----------



## saveliberty

Crazy people with guns are bad; sane people with guns stop the crazy ones.


----------



## Ravi

This guy is no more a real Christian than those that commit terrorist attacks in the name of Islam are real Muslims.

We'd be better off condemning people for perverting religion and other ideologies and not jumping to conclusions.


----------



## Article 15

Ravi said:


> This guy is no more a real Christian than those that commit terrorist attacks in the name of Islam are real Muslims.
> 
> We'd be better off condemning people for perverting religion and other ideologies and not jumping to conclusions.



Preach it, sista


----------



## saveliberty

I see some differences here.  The classic right wing religious nut case is usually a loner with little social contact.  This happens because others recognize the extremism and the loner retreats from the group.  You also don't see a bunch of Christians chanting, death to Norway's youth.  It seems to me that Muslim extremists are embraced by a large number of their religion.


----------



## rightwinger

Colin said:


> chanel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Condemn "Christians"?  It seems this guy was working alone.  He should be executed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Different had it been done by a lone muslim, eh, Chanel! Doesn't take much for the likes of bigots like you to blame all muslims!
Click to expand...


There would have been a different spin if it had been a lone Muslim. This will be written off as a nut job with a gun (but it is not the guns fault). If he were Muslim it would be used to condemn all Muslims


----------



## Article 15

saveliberty said:


> I see some differences here.  The classic right wing religious nut case is usually a loner with little social contact.  This happens because others recognize the extremism and the loner retreats from the group.  You also don't see a bunch of Christians chanting, death to Norway's youth.  It seems to me that Muslim extremists are embraced by a large number of their religion.



I noticed that whenever it's a non-Muslim who commits a terrorist attack that somehow, someway the conversation gets steered towards Islamic Terrorism.

Funny that.

Maybe you should just consider shutting the fuck up, son?


----------



## chanel

saveliberty said:


> I see some differences here.  The classic right wing religious nut case is usually a loner with little social contact.  This happens because others recognize the extremism and the loner retreats from the group.  You also don't see a bunch of Christians chanting, death to Norway's youth.  It seems to me that Muslim extremists are embraced by a large number of their religion.






> Suspicions immediately turned to terrorism as *jihadi websites worldwide ignited with boastful congratulations*. "This is another wake up call for the West," commented CBN terrorism expect Erick Stackelbeck, adding, "It is yet another sign that Islamic jihadists have spread their tentacles throughout every corner of Europe, even Scandinavia."



Terrorist attacks disturb Norway's summer | EnerPub - Energy Publisher

Boastful congratulations.


----------



## saveliberty

Yep, sad.  To be clear I would like to echo rightwinger and Article 15's point of view on this too.  I just think it is not exactly the same.


----------



## BoycottTheday

I think the time line case study on whome to blame in the media is fascinating...

I like how the liberal mind says any God fearing nationalistic christian

is a "Right Winger",

 as if the right wing in Norway is just like the right wing anywhere else.

I guess i should extrapolate that "Progressives" just really and truly are...



Godless Communists bent on UN's agenda 21.

Works for me, Bonne nuit.


----------



## chanel

Yep. And I would hope they investigate the groups he's affiliated with like any other terror group. But something tells me there is no high-fiving going on.


----------



## saveliberty

I wonder how long Norway will take to put farmers on the terror watch list?


----------



## Jos

Fjordman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Political Thinking of Anders Behring Breivik | Doug Saunders


----------



## Jos

*Foreign Minister Jonas Gahr Store was met by demands that Norway must recognize a Palestinian state when he visited the Labour Youth League summer camp at Utøya Thursday.*





Google Translate


----------



## martybegan

Ravi said:


> This guy is no more a real Christian than those that commit terrorist attacks in the name of Islam are real Muslims.
> 
> We'd be better off condemning people for perverting religion and other ideologies and not jumping to conclusions.



The one key difference is that there is a larger subset if imams (remember islam is a very decentralized religion since the fall of the caliph) in islam are proponents of violence than any christian sect, with the exception of the christian idenity groups in the US. Also remember that Islam itself is a far more millitant religion than Christianity, and about the same as biblical Judaism. The one difference between old judaism and islam is that only islam seeks converts, the old hebrews were content with keeping to themselves.

When you combine a skewed view of the koran with a militant to start with religon and a desire for conversion you get a much more unifying force for violence. The new testament contains no militarism in it, all the stuff during the middle ages was cultural and economic with a religous veneer. 

Islam has no issues with going out to conquer converts. The fall from grace to violence is far shorter in the Koran than in the New Testament.


----------



## Kiki Cannoli

What we know is that he is right-wing and a Christian fundamentalist.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/world/europe/24oslo.html?_r=1&hp

Extemism gets nobody anywhere.


----------



## random3434

Ravi said:


> This guy is no more a real Christian than those that commit terrorist attacks in the name of Islam are real Muslims.
> 
> We'd be better off condemning people for perverting religion and other ideologies and not jumping to conclusions.



Just read through this whole thread. Joking about murder, who did what to whom, what religion/group is to blame before all the facts were in.

Maybe next time a tragedy occurs people will keep their comments to themselves until ALL the facts are in.


But I doubt it.


----------



## martybegan

Echo Zulu said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> This guy is no more a real Christian than those that commit terrorist attacks in the name of Islam are real Muslims.
> 
> We'd be better off condemning people for perverting religion and other ideologies and not jumping to conclusions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just read through this whole thread. Joking about murder, who did what to whom, what religion/group is to blame before all the facts were in.
> 
> Maybe next time a tragedy occurs people will keep their comments to themselves until ALL the facts are in.
> 
> 
> But I doubt it.
Click to expand...


Welcome to the 24 news channel world. I tried to apply an 8 hour rule to myself before commenting on this story, but failed miserably.


----------



## Ravi

Article 15 said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see some differences here.  The classic right wing religious nut case is usually a loner with little social contact.  This happens because others recognize the extremism and the loner retreats from the group.  You also don't see a bunch of Christians chanting, death to Norway's youth.  It seems to me that Muslim extremists are embraced by a large number of their religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed that whenever it's a non-Muslim who commits a terrorist attack that somehow, someway the conversation gets steered towards Islamic Terrorism.
> 
> Funny that.
> 
> Maybe you should just consider shutting the fuck up, son?
Click to expand...

I've noticed that as well. It's almost like bragging, _our terrorists aren't as bad as yours_.


----------



## saveliberty

Article 15 said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see some differences here.  The classic right wing religious nut case is usually a loner with little social contact.  This happens because others recognize the extremism and the loner retreats from the group.  You also don't see a bunch of Christians chanting, death to Norway's youth.  It seems to me that Muslim extremists are embraced by a large number of their religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed that whenever it's a non-Muslim who commits a terrorist attack that somehow, someway the conversation gets steered towards Islamic Terrorism.
> 
> Funny that.
> 
> Maybe you should just consider shutting the fuck up, son?
Click to expand...


Maybe you should have read two posts down from theone you quoted...

I clarified that I agreed with you and rightwinger.

Maybe you should consider a vacation?


----------



## saveliberty

Ravi said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see some differences here.  The classic right wing religious nut case is usually a loner with little social contact.  This happens because others recognize the extremism and the loner retreats from the group.  You also don't see a bunch of Christians chanting, death to Norway's youth.  It seems to me that Muslim extremists are embraced by a large number of their religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed that whenever it's a non-Muslim who commits a terrorist attack that somehow, someway the conversation gets steered towards Islamic Terrorism.
> 
> Funny that.
> 
> Maybe you should just consider shutting the fuck up, son?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've noticed that as well. It's almost like bragging, _our terrorists aren't as bad as yours_.
Click to expand...


Couldn't find fault with the post's statements, so you created an alternative meaning.


----------



## alexa

Breaking news. There are not sure that only one person is involved. There seem to be suspicions that there were more people on the island.  

BBC News - Norway attacks - latest If they don't have it up, it was being reported live.

The Guardian had reported earlier that another man had been arrested


> 12.44pm: Here's AP's report on the arrest of a man outside a hotel where Norway's prime minister was meeting families of Utøya shooting victims.
> 
> The man told reporters he was detained "because I have a knife."
> 
> The man, who appeared to be around 20 years old, was standing outside the hotel next to reporters when two officers apprehended him and led him to a police car.
> 
> The man told reporters he was a member of the Labor Party's youth wing and was carrying a knife "because I feel unsafe."



Norway attacks: live coverage | World news | guardian.co.uk

So as yet, they are not sure that it is just one man.


----------



## Article 15

saveliberty said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see some differences here.  The classic right wing religious nut case is usually a loner with little social contact.  This happens because others recognize the extremism and the loner retreats from the group.  You also don't see a bunch of Christians chanting, death to Norway's youth.  It seems to me that Muslim extremists are embraced by a large number of their religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed that whenever it's a non-Muslim who commits a terrorist attack that somehow, someway the conversation gets steered towards Islamic Terrorism.
> 
> Funny that.
> 
> Maybe you should just consider shutting the fuck up, son?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe you should have read two posts down from theone you quoted...
> 
> I clarified that I agreed with you and rightwinger.
> 
> Maybe you should consider a vacation?
Click to expand...


Maybe you should try to peddle that shit to someone who was born yesterday?


----------



## saveliberty

Article 15 said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed that whenever it's a non-Muslim who commits a terrorist attack that somehow, someway the conversation gets steered towards Islamic Terrorism.
> 
> Funny that.
> 
> Maybe you should just consider shutting the fuck up, son?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you should have read two posts down from theone you quoted...
> 
> I clarified that I agreed with you and rightwinger.
> 
> Maybe you should consider a vacation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe you should try to peddle that shit to someone who was born yesterday?
Click to expand...


The second post is right there, clear as a sunny day.  The differences are legit and your rants are not.


----------



## Article 15

saveliberty said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you should have read two posts down from theone you quoted...
> 
> I clarified that I agreed with you and rightwinger.
> 
> Maybe you should consider a vacation?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you should try to peddle that shit to someone who was born yesterday?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The second post is right there, clear as a sunny day.  The differences are legit and your rants are not.
Click to expand...


You must think I am really stupid or something.

I saw the post.  My point about whenever a non-Muslim commits a terror attack people (like you) inevitably try to steer the conversation to Islamic terrorism stands.


----------



## martybegan

alexa said:


> Breaking news. There are not sure that only one person is involved. There seem to be suspicions that there were more people on the island.
> 
> BBC News - Norway attacks - latest If they don't have it up, it was being reported live.
> 
> The Guardian had reported earlier that another man had been arrested
> 
> 
> 
> 12.44pm: Here's AP's report on the arrest of a man outside a hotel where Norway's prime minister was meeting families of Utøya shooting victims.
> 
> The man told reporters he was detained "because I have a knife."
> 
> The man, who appeared to be around 20 years old, was standing outside the hotel next to reporters when two officers apprehended him and led him to a police car.
> 
> The man told reporters he was a member of the Labor Party's youth wing and was carrying a knife "because I feel unsafe."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Norway attacks: live coverage | World news | guardian.co.uk
> 
> So as yet, they are not sure that it is just one man.
Click to expand...


It has to be more than one guy. I can't see one guy gunning down over 80 people.


----------



## saveliberty

Article 15 said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you should try to peddle that shit to someone who was born yesterday?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The second post is right there, clear as a sunny day.  The differences are legit and your rants are not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You must think I am really stupid or something.
> 
> I saw the post.  My point about whenever a non-Muslim commits a terror attack people (like you) inevitably try to steer the conversation to Islamic terrorism stands.
Click to expand...


I made a comparision of the two and then returned the the topic in the next post I made.  You are having meltdowns all over the board today, so I'm going to chalk this up to some other stress or event.

Locally, we had extremists that were quickly labeled right wing christian.  Turns out one of them can't even go on trial due to mental problems.  None had set foot in a church in years.  The labels don't really address the problems.

This guy bought an automatic weapon with the sole purpose of killing people, a lot of people.  Once again, a background check fail.


----------



## strollingbones

martybegan said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Breaking news. There are not sure that only one person is involved. There seem to be suspicions that there were more people on the island.
> 
> BBC News - Norway attacks - latest If they don't have it up, it was being reported live.
> 
> The Guardian had reported earlier that another man had been arrested
> 
> 
> 
> 12.44pm: Here's AP's report on the arrest of a man outside a hotel where Norway's prime minister was meeting families of Utøya shooting victims.
> 
> The man told reporters he was detained "because I have a knife."
> 
> The man, who appeared to be around 20 years old, was standing outside the hotel next to reporters when two officers apprehended him and led him to a police car.
> 
> The man told reporters he was a member of the Labor Party's youth wing and was carrying a knife "because I feel unsafe."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Norway attacks: live coverage | World news | guardian.co.uk
> 
> So as yet, they are not sure that it is just one man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It has to be more than one guy. I can't see one guy gunning down over 80 people.
Click to expand...



do you always just run your mouth?  a good automatic or semi auto....loaded with hollow points or talons will do a lot of damage...i do not know what weapon he used...but i am surprised it wasnt more


----------



## strollingbones

700 kids on that island...he had them gathered around him when he began to shot them...


----------



## alexa

martybegan said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Breaking news. There are not sure that only one person is involved. There seem to be suspicions that there were more people on the island.
> 
> BBC News - Norway attacks - latest If they don't have it up, it was being reported live.
> 
> The Guardian had reported earlier that another man had been arrested
> 
> 
> 
> 12.44pm: Here's AP's report on the arrest of a man outside a hotel where Norway's prime minister was meeting families of Utøya shooting victims.
> 
> The man told reporters he was detained "because I have a knife."
> 
> The man, who appeared to be around 20 years old, was standing outside the hotel next to reporters when two officers apprehended him and led him to a police car.
> 
> The man told reporters he was a member of the Labor Party's youth wing and was carrying a knife "because I feel unsafe."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Norway attacks: live coverage | World news | guardian.co.uk
> 
> So as yet, they are not sure that it is just one man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It has to be more than one guy. I can't see one guy gunning down over 80 people.
Click to expand...


I would agree it seems almost impossible that one person could do this.  That was sort of implied by the guy being reported but they are still keeping it close to their chests at the moment.


----------



## strollingbones

Bodybuilding, freemasonry
A Facebook profile for an Oslo man of that name and age was removed early Saturday. It included a profile photo identical to the one being used by Norwegian media. In the profile, he listed himself as "single," "Christian" and "conservative" and says he is director of Breivik Geofarm. 

Suspect in deadly Norway attacks charged - World news - Europe - msnbc.com


The Norwegian daily Verdens Gang quoted a friend as saying he became a right-wing extremist in his late 20s. It said he expressed strong nationalistic views in online debates and had been a strong opponent of multi-culturalism.


----------



## strollingbones

You are asking about the "rate of fire". For any semi auto rifle, for all practical purposes, it is as fast as you can pull the trigger. Potentially, if Mom has really really fast hands, the rate of fire for the AR-15 is about 800 rounds per minute. Now that is for a full auto rifle. With a little practice, you can "bump fire" your AR-15 and it will emulate full auto fire. Go to youtube and type in bump fire, and you will find videos of people doing this.

How many rounds per minute does a semi-automatic ar 15 get? - Yahoo! Answers


----------



## saveliberty

In one video this morning, it showed a group of about 24-36 people on the ground in a small area.  It really hit me how exceptionally violent this whole thing was.  To be a terrorist, his goal would have to be terror.  This guy just wanted to kill people who thought differently than he did.  Fortunately, most of us do.


----------



## Ravi

alexa said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Breaking news. There are not sure that only one person is involved. There seem to be suspicions that there were more people on the island.
> 
> BBC News - Norway attacks - latest If they don't have it up, it was being reported live.
> 
> The Guardian had reported earlier that another man had been arrested
> 
> 
> Norway attacks: live coverage | World news | guardian.co.uk
> 
> So as yet, they are not sure that it is just one man.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has to be more than one guy. I can't see one guy gunning down over 80 people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would agree it seems almost impossible that one person could do this.  That was sort of implied by the guy being reported but they are still keeping it close to their chests at the moment.
Click to expand...


Apparently he had one and a half hours to shoot....


----------



## martybegan

strollingbones said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Breaking news. There are not sure that only one person is involved. There seem to be suspicions that there were more people on the island.
> 
> BBC News - Norway attacks - latest If they don't have it up, it was being reported live.
> 
> The Guardian had reported earlier that another man had been arrested
> 
> 
> Norway attacks: live coverage | World news | guardian.co.uk
> 
> So as yet, they are not sure that it is just one man.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has to be more than one guy. I can't see one guy gunning down over 80 people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> do you always just run your mouth?  a good automatic or semi auto....loaded with hollow points or talons will do a lot of damage...i do not know what weapon he used...but i am surprised it wasnt more
Click to expand...


So he can get 10-20 from suprise, once people know whats going on, they start running, one they scatter he has to go hunting, in a wooded area, one by one.  

and its called voicing my opinion, I can't see that high of a body count without help. 

Also, go fuck yourself you egotistical sack of shit. See? I can do insults too!


----------



## saveliberty

...on an island.


----------



## martybegan

Ravi said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has to be more than one guy. I can't see one guy gunning down over 80 people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would agree it seems almost impossible that one person could do this.  That was sort of implied by the guy being reported but they are still keeping it close to their chests at the moment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently he had one and a half hours to shoot....
Click to expand...


So there is a possibility the bombing was just a diversion to let him have an hour and a half to shoot up a youth meeting? 

I take it back, he could have killed 80 if it took that long for a response.

Strolling is still a sack of shit for being an insulting prick.


----------



## Ravi

It does sound like the bomb was a diversion.

It took the SWAT team 40 minutes to get there from what I've read. So yeah, the kids were sitting ducks.

From what I've read he is anti-immigrant and especially anti-muslim but I fail to see why his choice of target was a bunch of kids?


----------



## alexa

Ravi said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has to be more than one guy. I can't see one guy gunning down over 80 people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would agree it seems almost impossible that one person could do this.  That was sort of implied by the guy being reported but they are still keeping it close to their chests at the moment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently he had one and a half hours to shoot....
Click to expand...


I am not trying to say I know what happened.  We were interviewing a Norwegian  and our reporter spoke of it being only one man.  The Norwegian said  that that was not necessarily so. Our reporter expressed surprised and he confirmed that they were not as yet convinced that it was only one person and muttered about the Island and the other bombs and so on.

It may end out that it was only one man but it is a lot for one man to have done -  bomb the Government building as well as what happened on the Island.  

However the point is that the Norwegian speaking on the BBC said that they were not yet saying it was just one person.

I can't find it on the BBC website but here on the Guardian



> 5.22pm: The suspect Anders Behring Breivikis has admitted to some things, according to the police.
> 
> Breivikis surrendered immediately after the police arrived on the scene of the shootings.
> 
> *But based on the statements from witnesses, they think there may have been more than one gunman.*



Norway attacks: live coverage | World news | guardian.co.uk


----------



## Jos

saveliberty said:


> ...on an island.



Sounds like World of Warcraft


----------



## random3434

Ravi said:


> It does sound like the bomb was a diversion.
> 
> It took the SWAT team 40 minutes to get there from what I've read. So yeah, the kids were sitting ducks.
> 
> From what I've read he is anti-immigrant and especially anti-muslim but I fail to see* why his choice of target was a bunch of kid*s?




That is the question.  It's bad enough to murder adults, but to go and SEEK OUT children to murder?

 For what damn it, for what..........????


----------



## saveliberty

Someone provided a link which led me to believe the Labor Party kids were for a Palestinian homeland.  If that had been a TV news spot several days before, it could have made them a group of interest to this evil person.


----------



## Liability

Echo Zulu said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does sound like the bomb was a diversion.
> 
> It took the SWAT team 40 minutes to get there from what I've read. So yeah, the kids were sitting ducks.
> 
> From what I've read he is anti-immigrant and especially anti-muslim but I fail to see* why his choice of target was a bunch of kid*s?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is the question.  It's bad enough to murder adults, but to go and SEEK OUT children to murder?
> 
> For what damn it, for what..........????
Click to expand...


It is usually futile to ask sane, reasonable, human questions about the "thinking" of an insane, irrational and inhuman person.


----------



## Ringel05

Ravi said:


> It does sound like the bomb was a diversion.
> 
> It took the SWAT team 40 minutes to get there from what I've read. So yeah, the kids were sitting ducks.
> 
> From what I've read he is anti-immigrant and especially anti-muslim but I fail to see why his choice of target was a bunch of kids?



Good luck trying to figure out the logic of madness, the psychiatric community has been trying for quite a while now.


----------



## saveliberty

Sometimes I have to be sad to understand happy better.
Other times I have to see true evil to want to do more good.
Everyone want to make a postive difference today?


----------



## QUENTIN

For much of the day yesterday, the featured headline on The New York Times online front page strongly suggested that Muslims were responsible for the attacks on Oslo; that led to definitive statements on the BBC and elsewhere that Muslims were the culprits.  The Washington Post's Jennifer Rubin wrote a whole column based on the assertion that Muslims were responsible, one that, as James Fallows notes, remains at the Post with no corrections or updates.  The morning statement issued by President Obama -- "It's a reminder that the entire international community holds a stake in preventing this kind of terror from occurring" and "we have to work cooperatively together both on intelligence and in terms of prevention of these kinds of horrible attacks" -- appeared to assume, though (to its credit) did not overtly state, that the perpetrator was an international terrorist group. 

But now it turns out that the alleged perpetrator wasn't from an international Muslim extremist group at all, but was rather a right-wing Norwegian nationalist with a history of anti-Muslim commentary and an affection for Muslim-hating blogs such as Pam Geller's Atlas Shrugged, Daniel Pipes, and Robert Spencer's Jihad Watch.  Despite that, The New York Times is still working hard to pin some form of blame, even ultimate blame, on Muslim radicals:



> Terrorism specialists said that even if the authorities ultimately ruled out terrorism as the cause of Friday&#8217;s assaults, other kinds of groups or individuals were mimicking Al Qaeda's brutality and multiple attacks.
> 
> "If it does turn out to be someone with more political motivations, it shows these groups are learning from what they see from Al Qaeda," said Brian Fishman, a counterterrorism researcher at the New America Foundation in Washington.


Al Qaeda is always to blame, even when it isn't, even when it's allegedly_ the work of a Nordic, Muslim-hating, right-wing European nationalist._  Of course, before Al Qaeda, nobody ever thought to detonate bombs in government buildings or go on indiscriminate, politically motivated shooting rampages.  The NYT speculates that amonium nitrate fertilizer may have been used to make the bomb because the suspect, Anders Behring Breivik, owned a farming-related business and thus could have access to that material; of course nobody would have ever thought of using that substance to make a massive bomb had it not been for Al Qaeda.  So all this proves once again what a menacing threat radical Islam is.

Then there's this extraordinarily revealing passage from the NYT -- first noticed by Richard Silverstein -- explaining why the paper originally reported what it did:



> Initial reports focused on the possibility of Islamic militants, in particular Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami, or Helpers of the Global Jihad, cited by some analysts as claiming responsibility for the attacks. American officials said the group was previously unknown and might not even exist.
> 
> There was ample reason for concern that *terrorists* might be responsible.



In other words, now that we know the alleged perpetrator is not Muslim, we know -- *by definition* -- that Terrorists are not responsible; conversely, when we thought Muslims were responsible, that meant -- *also by definition* -- that it was an act of Terrorism.  As Silverstein put it: 


> How's that again? Are the only terrorists in the world Muslim? If so, what do we call a right-wing nationalist capable of planting major bombs and mowing down scores of people for the sake of the greater glory of his cause? If even a "liberal" newspaper like the Times can't call this guy a terrorist, what does that say about the mindset of the western world?



What it says is what we've seen repeatedly: that Terrorism has no objective meaning and, at least in American political discourse, has come functionally to mean: violence committed by Muslims whom the West dislikes, no matter the cause or the target.  Indeed, in many (though not all) media circles, discussion of the Oslo attack quickly morphed from this is Terrorism (when it was believed Muslims did it) to no, this isn't Terrorism, just extremism (once it became likely that Muslims didn't).  As Maz Hussain -- whose lengthy Twitter commentary on this event yesterday was superb and well worth reading -- put it:







That Terrorism means nothing more than violence committed by Muslims whom the West dislikes has been proven repeatedly.  When an airplane was flown into an IRS building in Austin, Texas, it was immediately proclaimed to be Terrorism, until it was revealed that the attacker was a white, non-Muslim, American anti-tax advocate with a series of domestic political grievances.  The U.S. and its allies can, by definition, never commit Terrorism even when it is beyond question that the purpose of their violence is to terrorize civilian populations into submission.  Conversely, Muslims who attack *purely military* targets  -- even if the target is* an invading army in their own countries* -- are, by definition, Terrorists.  That is why, as NYU's Remi Brulin has extensively documented, Terrorism is the most meaningless, and therefore the most manipulated, word in the English language.  Yesterday provided yet another sterling example.

One last question: if, as preliminary evidence suggests, it turns out that Breivik was "inspired" by the extremist hatemongering rantings of Geller, Pipes and friends, will their groups be deemed Terrorist organizations such that any involvement with them could constitute the criminal offense of material support to Terrorism?  Will those extremist polemicists inspiring Terrorist violence receive the Anwar Awlaki treatment of being put on an assassination hit list without due process?  Will tall, blond, Nordic-looking males now receive extra scrutiny at airports and other locales, and will those having any involvement with those right-wing, Muslim-hating groups be secretly placed on no-fly lists?  Or are those oppressive, extremist, lawless measures -- like the word Terrorism -- also reserved exclusively for Muslims?

Continue reading for full article: The omnipotence of Al Qaeda and meaninglessness of "Terrorism"


----------



## alexa

Hi Quentin,

Terrorism is of course something which has no universal description.  Part of the problem may come from the US not really knowing terrorism  till 9/11 and then it took the position that it was an act of war.

Europe - France, Spain and the UK anyway, have lived with terrorism.  The US had even openly funded Irish terrorism which a lot in the US did not seem to see as terrorism.

 Of course Britain chose to see terrorism as a criminal offence and the US saw it as war so it could be said the concept of terrorism changed then. I think to some extent the UK has moved also in putting too much emphasis on Islamic terrorism but we  do still need to deal with sporadic NI terrorism even now.  

Your questions are interesting because today one of our reporters asked a Norwegian spokesman whether this could now be called terrorism.  He said he definitely saw it is terrorism.  It was against the Government and against the Labor youth party.  What else could it be?

My own belief on terrorism is that in order for it to be terrorism it needs to be done by a group.  That is either a group organises it or the person who does it belongs to a group which sanctions this as a political means.  The person would be doing it on behalf of the group and the group would support it.  That is my view.  Like I said there is no universal view on terrorism.

We don't yet know what this guy has been up to.  We know he is extreme right wing.  We know he is a Christian fundamentalist and all fundamentalists are potentially dangerous. We know he hates immigration and is anti Muslim. The Norweigans say that his behaviour is extremely unusual for right wing fanatics.  What he did took a lot of planning while they usually just go on an impulsive spree so we don't yet know what he was up to and are not even sure he was on his own.

With regards to Daniel Pipes and friends, good question.  Canada recently tried to convict similar for hate speech.  I read a lot of what they said in their reports.  Their belief was that Nazi Germany had shown us that we cannot rely on the rational and basic goodness of humans to show through and defeat ideas which should be beyond touch of most human beings.  They believed that it had been shown that if you expose people to sufficient hate material they will start to hate and to be honest that is true.  Of course that can be contradicted by reading other stuff as well but clearly there is a danger of this happening.  It is a very tricky situation and I think it is well that you bring it for consideration.


----------



## CitizenPained

I think random attacks on civilians to send an ideological message is terrorism.


----------



## CitizenPained

alexa said:


> Canada recently tried to convict similar for hate speech.  I read a lot of what they said in their reports.  Their belief was that Nazi Germany had shown us that we cannot rely on the rational and basic goodness of humans to show through and defeat ideas which should be beyond touch of most human beings.  They believed that it had been shown that if you expose people to sufficient hate material they will start to hate and to be honest that is true.  Of course that can be contradicted by reading other stuff as well but clearly there is a danger of this happening.  It is a very tricky situation and I think it is well that you bring it for consideration.



Israel has laws against speech that incites violence/hate speech/etc.

Jews have been arrested as well as Muslims. It's a good idea and one I wish more western countries would follow.


----------



## QUENTIN

I take the simple and clear definition of terrorism used formally (but almost never in practice) by most international organizations, the U.S. government (again, only formally, not actually) and courts, and the dictionary.

Politically motivated violence against civilians. 

It's violence against non-combatants intended to terrorize a population and either bring glory to one's cause or make some political outcome more likely.

I don't see why one has to be a member of a group to do that. If an individual suicide bomber is a radical but doesn't specifically belong to an organized group of fellow radicals, he's still a terrorist. Timothy McVeigh, for instance, is certainly a terrorist as far as I'm concerned.

The problem with the word isn't that it genuinely lacks a definition, it's that it has been so manipulated and misused that it no longer means what it was intended to and instead is just a buzzword used to describe violence by Muslims. Even when the violence is militaristic in nature, not attacking any civilians or non-combatants but solely aimed at soldiers of an invading foreign army ("guerilla warfare" like we've seen throughout the ages) it is described as terrorism (I suppose we were fighting terrorism in Vietnam then too) and when the violence is explicitly terrorism, attacking civilian non-combatants for political reasons such as the Joseph Stack IRS attack or white nationalist bomb planting at an MLK parade or this bombing and shooting in Oslo, as long as the perpetrator isn't a brown Muslim it's called something other than terrorism despite meeting the textbook definition of a terrorist act.

As for outlawing speech, or the concept of "hate speech," I vehemently oppose it. I support the right to free speech and expression, period. Incitement to violence is against the law for a reason, but merely stating an opinion or belief others find "hateful" (and who is going to be the arbiter of that?) is a dangerous and authoritarian infringement on the most basic human freedom - that of expressing oneself. If you don't believe in freedom of speech for those whose views you despise, then you don't believe in freedom of speech at all. "I disapprove of what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it," etc. I was merely mocking the hypocrisy evidence by Anwar Al-Awlaki, a Muslim extremist whose "crime" is inspiring violence against Americans without taking part in it and who has been targeted to be assassinated as a result of exercising his free speech, being given such different treatment than Christian extremists who inspired this violence with their speech but who will suffer some verbal reprobation at worst. I don't support either of them being killed or jailed for merely speaking their mind, even if what I think they say is vile and can influence stupid, impressionable people to commit crimes and violence. Keep in mind, America was founded by people calling for violent revolution against the state. Outlawing unpopular, even hateful opinions, is simply totalitarian - no matter how well-intentioned.

I think this cartoon sums up the reaction we saw throughout the U.S. and particularly in the first few pages of this thread quite well:


----------



## CitizenPained

I spend a whole day in my high school civics trying to cover the question, "What is terrorism?" in the context of, "What is war?"

They love it.


----------



## xsited1

CitizenPained said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Canada recently tried to convict similar for hate speech.  I read a lot of what they said in their reports.  Their belief was that Nazi Germany had shown us that we cannot rely on the rational and basic goodness of humans to show through and defeat ideas which should be beyond touch of most human beings.  They believed that it had been shown that if you expose people to sufficient hate material they will start to hate and to be honest that is true.  Of course that can be contradicted by reading other stuff as well but clearly there is a danger of this happening.  It is a very tricky situation and I think it is well that you bring it for consideration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has laws against speech that incites violence/hate speech/etc.
> 
> Jews have been arrested as well as Muslims. It's a good idea and one I wish more western countries would follow.
Click to expand...


Never fear.  The way the Constitution is being trashed you probably won't have long to wait.


----------



## saveliberty

If I understand correctly, any speech that is offensive will not be allowed under this new concept?  So much for message boards.


----------



## alexa

CitizenPained said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Canada recently tried to convict similar for hate speech.  I read a lot of what they said in their reports.  Their belief was that Nazi Germany had shown us that we cannot rely on the rational and basic goodness of humans to show through and defeat ideas which should be beyond touch of most human beings.  They believed that it had been shown that if you expose people to sufficient hate material they will start to hate and to be honest that is true.  Of course that can be contradicted by reading other stuff as well but clearly there is a danger of this happening.  It is a very tricky situation and I think it is well that you bring it for consideration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has laws against speech that incites violence/hate speech/etc.
> 
> Jews have been arrested as well as Muslims. It's a good idea and one I wish more western countries would follow.
Click to expand...


Yes, the UK has laws about hate speech which incites violence as well and I think most of Europe does too.  The problem comes from how you prove it.  Obviously it is easy if someone gets up on a soapbox and tells people to go and kill some particular group but that rarely happens within earshot so we are dealing with it on a much more subtle level and I think particularly with the Internet where people are exposed to material they never would have been before on a mass scale and also where they can easily find people with whatever ideas they have.

The question is when does it become incitement to hate and violence.


----------



## CitizenPained

xsited1 said:


> CitizenPained said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Canada recently tried to convict similar for hate speech.  I read a lot of what they said in their reports.  Their belief was that Nazi Germany had shown us that we cannot rely on the rational and basic goodness of humans to show through and defeat ideas which should be beyond touch of most human beings.  They believed that it had been shown that if you expose people to sufficient hate material they will start to hate and to be honest that is true.  Of course that can be contradicted by reading other stuff as well but clearly there is a danger of this happening.  It is a very tricky situation and I think it is well that you bring it for consideration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has laws against speech that incites violence/hate speech/etc.
> 
> Jews have been arrested as well as Muslims. It's a good idea and one I wish more western countries would follow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never fear.  The way the Constitution is being trashed you probably won't have long to wait.
Click to expand...


Incitement to riot isn't protected. Nor is obscenity or defamation. 

Unfortunately...it is too often protected...because SCOTUS gave the impression that it should be, not because the Founders thought it was a good idea. 

Trashed, indeed.


----------



## CitizenPained

alexa said:


> CitizenPained said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Canada recently tried to convict similar for hate speech.  I read a lot of what they said in their reports.  Their belief was that Nazi Germany had shown us that we cannot rely on the rational and basic goodness of humans to show through and defeat ideas which should be beyond touch of most human beings.  They believed that it had been shown that if you expose people to sufficient hate material they will start to hate and to be honest that is true.  Of course that can be contradicted by reading other stuff as well but clearly there is a danger of this happening.  It is a very tricky situation and I think it is well that you bring it for consideration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has laws against speech that incites violence/hate speech/etc.
> 
> Jews have been arrested as well as Muslims. It's a good idea and one I wish more western countries would follow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, the UK has laws about hate speech which incites violence as well and I think most of Europe does too.  The problem comes from how you prove it.  Obviously it is easy if someone gets up on a soapbox and tells people to go and kill some particular group but that rarely happens within earshot so we are dealing with it on a much more subtle level and I think particularly with the Internet where people are exposed to material they never would have been before on a mass scale and also where they can easily find people with whatever ideas they have.
> 
> The question is when does it become incitement to hate and violence.
Click to expand...


In America, it has to be an _imminent threat_, which is why racist fucks in the KKK can get away with what they do. You can stand on soapbox and preach about black people and Jews needing to die and you won't be arrested (unless you're disturbing the peace) because it's "protected".


----------



## alexa

CitizenPained said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CitizenPained said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has laws against speech that incites violence/hate speech/etc.
> 
> Jews have been arrested as well as Muslims. It's a good idea and one I wish more western countries would follow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the UK has laws about hate speech which incites violence as well and I think most of Europe does too.  The problem comes from how you prove it.  Obviously it is easy if someone gets up on a soapbox and tells people to go and kill some particular group but that rarely happens within earshot so we are dealing with it on a much more subtle level and I think particularly with the Internet where people are exposed to material they never would have been before on a mass scale and also where they can easily find people with whatever ideas they have.
> 
> The question is when does it become incitement to hate and violence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In America, it has to be an _imminent threat_, which is why racist fucks in the KKK can get away with what they do. You can stand on soapbox and preach about black people and Jews needing to die and you won't be arrested (unless you're disturbing the peace) because it's "protected".
Click to expand...


I wonder though which is the more successful.  Most people if they hear someone on a soapbox suggesting the killing of all whoever, will think nutter and move on....but if you gradually submit yourself to material which has a little bit of truth in it, then it can gradually send you to extremes.  I was on a website where a guy used to do things like post pictures of Mecca with nukes landing on it and get thanks. One day he confided that his hatred of Muslims was reaching such an extreme he was scared he might do something about it - like kill one.

So back to the topic. This Norwegian murderer was not known to the police.  He had no history at all.  They say that they had no reason at all to think he was any threat...but he used the net and he used extreme websites.  It may be that that formed his focus group, made him feel he had a purpose.

At the same time what Quintin spoke of, always seeing Muslims as being the terrorists can produce the effect it had in the bloke on that website....and these are subtle. They happen from continually submitting yourself to hateful ideas.  

There have been attempts to take people who are subtly peddling this hate which can lead to violence to court - and there is no reason to believe they cannot lead to mass violence - there were I think two in Canada and also the Wilders trial.  None of them came to anything.

I think it is just something that people need to be aware of.  Maybe because of the changes in the way we communicate something which people need to be taught about at school so that they take care and do not accidentally allow their minds to be polluted by hate which is subtly taught by those who have an agenda not necessarily noticed.


----------



## jillian

Ravi said:


> OSLO, Norway  A loud explosion has shattered windows at the government headquarters in Oslo which includes the prime minister's office, injuring several people.
> 
> Norwegian news agency NTB said the prime minister is safe.
> 
> An AP reporter says newspaper offices in the area are also damaged and smoke is drifting in the streets.
> 
> Explosion damages gov't building in Oslo - CBS News



I have to wonder why it took you to post this. You'd think all the rightwingnut "profile the
A-rab" folks would have come out of the woodwork...

oh wait... the terrorists weren't Arabs. 

guess that shoots that whole profiling thing in the you-know--what....


----------



## alexa

It appears now that this Anders Brehing Breivik had links with British Far Right group the EDL



> Anders Brehing Breivik, the man accused of the murder of at least 91 Norwegians in a bomb and gun massacre, boasted online about his discussions with the far-right English Defence League and other anti-Islamic European organisations.
> 
> The Norwegian prime minister, Jens Stoltenberg, said Norwegian officials were working with foreign intelligence agencies to see if there was any international involvement in the slaughter. "We have running contact with other countries' intelligence services," he said. had links with British far right groups in particular the EDL



Norway attacks: Utøya gunman boasted of links to UK far right | World news | The Observer

For those who don't know them

This is England: On the trail of the English Defence League | Mail Online

Special Investigation: English Defence League and the hooligans spreading hate on the High Street | Mail Online


----------



## Ravi

I just can't believe the picture of him taken from a helicopter, walking around among the bodies of the kids he killed.

And really, if you read his writings so far released, he only seems like a garden variety hater.

What the hell happened here?


----------



## CitizenPained

alexa said:


> CitizenPained said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the UK has laws about hate speech which incites violence as well and I think most of Europe does too.  The problem comes from how you prove it.  Obviously it is easy if someone gets up on a soapbox and tells people to go and kill some particular group but that rarely happens within earshot so we are dealing with it on a much more subtle level and I think particularly with the Internet where people are exposed to material they never would have been before on a mass scale and also where they can easily find people with whatever ideas they have.
> 
> The question is when does it become incitement to hate and violence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In America, it has to be an _imminent threat_, which is why racist fucks in the KKK can get away with what they do. You can stand on soapbox and preach about black people and Jews needing to die and you won't be arrested (unless you're disturbing the peace) because it's "protected".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wonder though which is the more successful.  Most people if they hear someone on a soapbox suggesting the killing of all whoever, will think nutter and move on....but if you gradually submit yourself to material which has a little bit of truth in it, then it can gradually send you to extremes.  I was on a website where a guy used to do things like post pictures of Mecca with nukes landing on it and get thanks. One day he confided that his hatred of Muslims was reaching such an extreme he was scared he might do something about it - like kill one.
Click to expand...



Good point.


----------



## hortysir

QUENTIN said:


> So it was a blond-haired, blue-eyed, Norwegian conservative Christian who perpetrated the terrorist attack.
> 
> Do those who mocked the idea this could have been anyone but Muslim extremists have anything to say about that now?



Nope.
Not even a little apologetic.

I was playing the odds.




Is anyone that wants to defend Muslim extremists happy that it was a white Christian?

See how that works?


----------



## theHawk

Too bad Norway doesn't have a death penalty.

This guy will get free meals the rest of his life thanks to their taxpayers.


----------



## freedombecki

I'm so sorry Norway was hit with a heartless sniper. It appears his extremist group brainwashes people into doing bad things. I think more than one troll did this.


----------



## bodecea

GHook93 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ekrem said:
> 
> 
> 
> After NATO started to terrorize Ghaddafi with "peaceful" civilians, who carry rocket-launchers, Ghadaffi said, that noone in Europe is safe.
> 
> Gaddafi threatens attacks in Europe | World news | The Guardian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you think he's behind it, do you? Then we should certainly vaporize him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No way it was him, he has too many fish to fry at home! I guarantee it was a home grown Islamist group made that liberal Norway didn't do something they demanded!
Click to expand...


You guarantee?


----------



## random3434

Ravi said:


> I just can't believe the picture of him taken from a helicopter, walking around among the bodies of the kids he killed.
> 
> And really, if you read his writings so far released, he only seems like a garden variety hater.
> 
> What the hell happened here?



Yeah, on the news last night they showed a view from above of all those children's dead bodies laying on the ground, dead. So many, too many......

Heartbreaking. I can't grasp this evil that some have......and why they have it.


----------



## xsited1

CitizenPained said:


> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CitizenPained said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has laws against speech that incites violence/hate speech/etc.
> 
> Jews have been arrested as well as Muslims. It's a good idea and one I wish more western countries would follow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never fear.  The way the Constitution is being trashed you probably won't have long to wait.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Incitement to riot isn't protected. Nor is obscenity or defamation.
> 
> Unfortunately...it is too often protected...because SCOTUS gave the impression that it should be, not because the Founders thought it was a good idea.
> 
> Trashed, indeed.
Click to expand...


The Founders realized the dangers of restricting free speech.  You seem to want to rewrite history.  I realize that roughly 2/3 of American adults favor the banning of hate speech today, but don't put words in the Founder's mouths.  If you want something changed, Amend the Constitution.  Don't continue trashing the Constitution or the Founder's intent, please.


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## BoycottTheday

The real sad part is the weapons from Fast and Furious killed more people butt gets scant media coverage while this topic is all the rage.

Weird.


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## bodecea

BoycottTheday said:


> The real sad part is the weapons from Fast and Furious killed more people butt gets scant media coverage while this topic is all the rage.
> 
> Weird.


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