# Public Schools Produce Dumb Kids



## gipper (Oct 26, 2016)

So true...and may explain why criminals like Hillary could be POTUS.  The dumbing down of America has benefited the socialist party tremendously, but they still want more dummies imported from third world...and the R party is too feeble minded to stop it.

No wonder so many are socialists, says the Great Walter Williams.


*Public Schools Produce Dumb Kids*
Do you wonder why Sen. Bernie Sanders and his ideas are so popular among American college students? The answer is that they, like so many other young people who think they know it all, are really uninformed and ignorant. You say, "Williams, how dare you say that?! We've mortgaged our home to send our children to college." Let's start with the 2006 geographic literacy survey of youngsters between 18 and 24 years of age by National Geographic and Roper Public Affairs.

Less than half could identify New York and Ohio on a U.S. map. Sixty percent could not find Iraq or Saudi Arabia on a map of the Middle East, and three-quarters could not find Iran or Israel. In fact, 44 percent could not locate even one of those four countries. Youngsters who had taken a geography class didn't fare much better. By the way, when I attended elementary school, during the 1940s, we were given blank U.S. maps, and our assignment was to write in the states. Today such an assignment might be deemed oppressive, if not racist.

To accommodate less college-ready students, colleges must water down their curricula, lower standards and abandon traditional tools and topics. Emory University English professor Mark Bauerlein writes in his book "The Dumbest Generation": Tradition "serves a crucial moral and intellectual function. ... People who read Thucydides and Caesar on war, and Seneca and Ovid on love, are less inclined to construe passing fads as durable outlooks, to fall into the maelstrom of celebrity culture, to presume that the circumstances of their own life are worth a Web page."


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## Timmy (Oct 26, 2016)

Says "youngsters" .  Doesn't say youngsters from public schools .

Who has geography anymore?


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## bodecea (Oct 26, 2016)

It's all Reading/Writing/Math now...no Geography is taught.


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## SassyIrishLass (Oct 26, 2016)

Timmy said:


> Says "youngsters" .  Doesn't say youngsters from public schools .
> 
> Who has geography anymore?



Public Schools *Produce Dumb Kids*


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 26, 2016)

I went to public school.  On what political topics  does the OP think he's smarter than I am?

We'll have some one on one debates.


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## turzovka (Oct 26, 2016)

gipper said:


> So true...and may explain why criminals like Hillary could be POTUS.  The dumbing down of America has benefited the socialist party tremendously, but they still want more dummies imported from third world...and the R party is too feeble minded to stop it.
> 
> No wonder so many are socialists, says the Great Walter Williams.
> 
> ...



Yes, well, traditional teaching methods and courses have been completely run over by social engineering objectives on sex, gender, race, etc., mas media indoctrination, easier material so everyone can hopefully pass, psychology instruction on the importance of 'me,'   revisionist history, and other liberal agendas.    The test results vs. other nations bears this out nicely.

In fact, what you just wrote in the OP went over every one of their heads -- that is, if they were willing to put their cell phones down to take a peak at the real world.


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## OldLady (Oct 26, 2016)

gipper said:


> So true...and may explain why criminals like Hillary could be POTUS.  The dumbing down of America has benefited the socialist party tremendously, but they still want more dummies imported from third world...and the R party is too feeble minded to stop it.
> 
> No wonder so many are socialists, says the Great Walter Williams.
> 
> ...


What do you suggest?


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## Timmy (Oct 26, 2016)

SassyIrishLass said:


> Timmy said:
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> > Says "youngsters" .  Doesn't say youngsters from public schools .
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Yes . A stupid title, ironically .

It talks of national geographic survey .  Nothing says that survey was of PUBLIC school kids only .


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## SassyIrishLass (Oct 26, 2016)

Timmy said:


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Public education is failing the children on an epic level


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## ABikerSailor (Oct 26, 2016)

You know, I went to public schools in Montana and Colorado.  I think I got a pretty decent education.  

I remember my final for 6th grade science.  We were given a large sheet of paper and told to draw the Tree of Life on it, starting with Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen and Nitrogen (building blocks of life), and then going up the tree with the various fungi and lichens, branching it off into plant and animal life.  Not only did we have to have the genus and phylum listed for the animal or plant, but we also had to have the common name as well. 

In high school, I took Algebra and Geometry, had an advanced English class and also took Human Physiology.

But then again..............that was public school in the 70's and early 80's, when educating our children was kind of a priority back then.


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## Soggy in NOLA (Oct 26, 2016)

Timmy said:


> Says "youngsters" .  Doesn't say youngsters from public schools .
> 
> Who has geography anymore?



So, Mr. Science, you think not being able to find NY on a map is a good thing?

Lemme guess, public school....


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## Soggy in NOLA (Oct 26, 2016)

SassyIrishLass said:


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We just need more money...


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## SassyIrishLass (Oct 26, 2016)

Soggy in NOLA said:


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That's just throwing good money into a broken system


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## Soggy in NOLA (Oct 26, 2016)

SassyIrishLass said:


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<<sarcasm>>


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## pismoe (Oct 26, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> I went to public school.  On what political topics  does the OP think he's smarter than I am?
> 
> We'll have some one on one debates.


---------------------------------------------------------------------, pretty funny , course you are at least a decent sort Carbineer !!


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## pismoe (Oct 26, 2016)

ABikerSailor said:


> You know, I went to public schools in Montana and Colorado.  I think I got a pretty decent education.
> 
> I remember my final for 6th grade science.  We were given a large sheet of paper and told to draw the Tree of Life on it, starting with Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen and Nitrogen (building blocks of life), and then going up the tree with the various fungi and lichens, branching it off into plant and animal life.  Not only did we have to have the genus and phylum listed for the animal or plant, but we also had to have the common name as well.
> 
> ...


------------------------------------------------------   so you are another another brain surgeon like Carbineer ehh Senor   .    From what I have seen just reading this board common sense and has been bred outa you guys .     Even worse are the recently educated and the millennials are really lacking in common sense and history and general  knowledge .     As a small example watch WATTERS World segment on the 'oreily' show Senor !!


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## pismoe (Oct 26, 2016)

some WATTERS World for you Senor .    Kinda amusing but i'll try to find better Senor BSailor !!   --- Watters' World: The Millennial Vote  ---


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## gipper (Oct 26, 2016)

turzovka said:


> gipper said:
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> > So true...and may explain why criminals like Hillary could be POTUS.  The dumbing down of America has benefited the socialist party tremendously, but they still want more dummies imported from third world...and the R party is too feeble minded to stop it.
> ...


All this does not bode well for the future of the nation.  The consequence of the leftist take over of the p-schools will be greater income inequality, as the rich get an education and everyone else doesn't.  It use to be the p-schools were considered great equalizers...meaning the poor could obtain a good education similar to the wealthy.  Not any more since the left took over education from kindergarten to PhD.

It is a terrible crime committed by the left.


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## OldLady (Oct 27, 2016)

I think all of you that are grumbling should get active on your local school boards, donate to the PTA fund raisers for $ for updated text books, and if you can, volunteer to tutor in the after school program.  
Watters is funny, but do you know how many people he probably interviewed to get some of those stupendously stupid answers?


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## esthermoon (Oct 27, 2016)

I don't believe public schools are so bad in US. They work pretty well I guess. I know many Americans have studied there and I'm sure not all of them are dumb 
Here we have public schools and not public schools too.
Our public education system is pretty good maybe one of the best in Asia


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## koshergrl (Oct 27, 2016)

ABikerSailor said:


> You know, I went to public schools in Montana and Colorado.  I think I got a pretty decent education.
> 
> I remember my final for 6th grade science.  We were given a large sheet of paper and told to draw the Tree of Life on it, starting with Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen and Nitrogen (building blocks of life), and then going up the tree with the various fungi and lichens, branching it off into plant and animal life.  Not only did we have to have the genus and phylum listed for the animal or plant, but we also had to have the common name as well.
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No. You didn't get a good education. You were brainwashed. But being brainwashed, you don't realize it.


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## koshergrl (Oct 27, 2016)

gipper said:


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It's what commie regimes do. They take over the schools and create a whole army of brainwashed morons, taught to defend their masters by their masters.


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## Iceweasel (Oct 27, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> I went to public school.  On what political topics  does the OP think he's smarter than I am?
> 
> We'll have some one on one debates.


LOL. Thanks for the morning chuckle.


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## Iceweasel (Oct 27, 2016)

OldLady said:


> I think all of you that are grumbling should get active on your local school boards, donate to the PTA fund raisers for $ for updated text books, and if you can, volunteer to tutor in the after school program.
> Watters is funny, but do you know how many people he probably interviewed to get some of those stupendously stupid answers?


Teachers are paid plenty to do that. If we are going to do that then let's throw them off the public dime. Public ed scoops up half the property taxes here. Half. That a LOT of money! It won't change until we overthrow socialism.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 27, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> NYcarbineer said:
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You don't see the OP taking up the offer, do you?


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## Iceweasel (Oct 27, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


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Yeah, you scared him off, Einstein.


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## Onyx (Oct 27, 2016)

Most people are morons, including the OP.

It is okay though. I only need to harvest 10% of your intelligence to make you all see reason.


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## turzovka (Oct 27, 2016)

koshergrl said:


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Sounds very much like the schools for ALL children in Middle Eastern Islamic countries.


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## Rustic (Oct 27, 2016)

gipper said:


> So true...and may explain why criminals like Hillary could be POTUS.  The dumbing down of America has benefited the socialist party tremendously, but they still want more dummies imported from third world...and the R party is too feeble minded to stop it.
> 
> No wonder so many are socialists, says the Great Walter Williams.
> 
> ...


Since the federal government disregards the 10th amendment now...


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## Soggy in NOLA (Oct 27, 2016)

OldLady said:


> I think all of you that are grumbling should get active on your local school boards, donate to the PTA fund raisers for $ for updated text books, and if you can, volunteer to tutor in the after school program.
> Watters is funny, but do you know how many people he probably interviewed to get some of those stupendously stupid answers?



I pay enough in taxes... plus I had to send my kids to private schools to get a decent education.  I'm not paying on cent more.  Watters?  probably 5 out of 6 people didn't know shit.


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## brummelben (Oct 27, 2016)

Soggy in NOLA said:


> Timmy said:
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Private schools are always better, they can pick and choose which students they want to take, most don't accept children with learning disabilities, and despite all the most suburban public schools are amongst the best in the country


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## Soggy in NOLA (Oct 27, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> NYcarbineer said:
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Political topics?  LOL.  He's probably one of those that can't find Ohio on a map.


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## kaz (Oct 27, 2016)

bodecea said:


> It's all Reading/Writing/Math now...no Geography is taught.



Is that why you can't find your ass with both hands?


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## Soggy in NOLA (Oct 27, 2016)

Can't find Ohio but can put a condom on a cucumber and has read "I Have Two Mommies".

Awesome.


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## kaz (Oct 27, 2016)

esthermoon said:


> I know many Americans have studied there and I'm sure not all of them are dumb



You misunderstand this part.  You can come out of public schools in this country and be smart, it's just that the public school probably didn't make you smart.  There are a lot of ways to learn.  When you take people who don't do anything extra and put them in a public school, those are the kids who won't get much out of it


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## brummelben (Oct 27, 2016)

kaz said:


> [QUOTE="esthermoon, post: 15650891, member: 59595"I know many Americans have studied there and I'm sure not all of them are dumb



You misunderstand this part.  You can come out of public schools in this country and be smart, it's just that the public school probably didn't make you smart.  There are a lot of ways to learn.  When you take people who don't do anything extra and put them in a public school, those are the kids who won't get much out of it[/QUOTE]
We appreciate your opinion, please don't pass it off as a fact, since you have none


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## LordBrownTrout (Oct 27, 2016)

They can barely talk using correct grammar.  Their writing proficiency is beyond embarrassing.  Math.....lol.  But yeah, they can tell you about gays, transsexuals , and other assorted freaks,communism, socialism, how to be a boy if you're a girl, etc.


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## kaz (Oct 27, 2016)

brummelben said:


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LOL, not you lecture me to not speak for others while I didn't speak for anyone but myself.  At the same time, you did, having to use the term "we."  Is that because you actually think you're Queen Elizabeth or just because your dick isn't big enough to think your opinion's worth anything on it's own?  You may have a point on that.

Take your advice and speak for yourself, needle dick


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## Old Rocks (Oct 27, 2016)

SassyIrishLass said:


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No, dumb ass parents are failing their children on an epic level. When my children were in school, I and my wife, took a very active role in the PTA. And we noted that all the parents we saw In the organization had children that not only did well in school, but were more knowledgable about in other areas not taught in school, because their parents made an active commitment to take the to museums and other places of learning outside of school.


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## Brain357 (Oct 27, 2016)

Old Rocks said:


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The type of school doesn't matter if the parents are not active.


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## koshergrl (Oct 27, 2016)

Our public schools produce soft headed ideologues who have never had to work for anything and have been taught complete GARBAGE by the federal government from a very young age.


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## koshergrl (Oct 27, 2016)

Old Rocks said:


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Their children did well because they were commie puppets. Like you.


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## brummelben (Oct 27, 2016)

koshergrl said:


> Our public schools produce soft headed ideologues who have never had to work for anything and have been taught complete GARBAGE by the federal government from a very young age.


Where does the Federal government get involved in public schools? Do you have a phyucking clue as to what you are talking about


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## koshergrl (Oct 27, 2016)

Old Fag..."Just go along with it and do what you're told and they'll push your kids along!"


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## Old Rocks (Oct 27, 2016)

LordBrownTrout said:


> They can barely talk using correct grammar.  Their writing proficiency is beyond embarrassing.  Math.....lol.  But yeah, they can tell you about gays, transexuals , and other assorted freaks,communism, socialism, how to be a boy if you're a girl, etc.


Well then, you really should have made an effort to teach your children something.

You know, I have been attending classes in the local community college and a university for the past 3 1/2 years, as work schedule permitted. And I see on a daily basis these kids you are calling dumb. They would run rings around you and most of the 'Conservatives' on this board in the extent of their overall knowledge. You guys make a strawman argument by picking the dumbest of the lot, probably your own kids, and generalizing from them.


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## koshergrl (Oct 27, 2016)

brummelben said:


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You're too stupid to discuss this topic. Goodbye.


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## Brain357 (Oct 27, 2016)

Old Rocks said:


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> > They can barely talk using correct grammar.  Their writing proficiency is beyond embarrassing.  Math.....lol.  But yeah, they can tell you about gays, transexuals , and other assorted freaks,communism, socialism, how to be a boy if you're a girl, etc.
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Conservative states are far from the brightest...


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## Brain357 (Oct 27, 2016)

Red State Stupidity Confirmed: 9 Of The 10 Least Educated States Voted Republican


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## Iceweasel (Oct 27, 2016)

Brain357 said:


> The type of school doesn't matter if the parents are not active.


So why send them to school? My parents didn't do shit and I don't know anyone's that did. They worked. Teachers are supposed to work to but indoctrination is pushed heavily. Academics take a back seat to self esteem and community awareness/social acceptance.


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## koshergrl (Oct 27, 2016)

Old Rocks said:


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"I thoroughly conditioned my children to suck the ass of the commie regime to ensure their success!"


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## LordBrownTrout (Oct 27, 2016)

Old Rocks said:


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I went to public schools in the late 70's, early 80's.  We were taught to think.


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## brummelben (Oct 27, 2016)

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Thanks for confirming that you didn't know what you are talking about


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## Iceweasel (Oct 27, 2016)

Brain357 said:


> Red State Stupidity Confirmed: 9 Of The 10 Least Educated States Voted Republican


^^^^

This retard uses a website that says Red State Stupidity Confirmed and thinks it's a credible source.


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## koshergrl (Oct 27, 2016)

Kids of free people are dumbed down in government schools. They make amoeba like Old Fag feel smarter, because amoeba are such blank slates themselves..they suck up all that conditioning and turn into the exact sort of useful idiot the criminals in charge depend on to snitch out their neighbors.

HItler Youth turned SS.

The only cure is a bullet.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 27, 2016)

koshergrl said:


> Old Fag..."Just go along with it and do what you're told and they'll push your kids along!"


LOL  Silly ass, the best school I ever attended was Riverside. And Prairie City grade school was another. My children attended schools Prairie City, Tacoma, and Portland. We helped with homework and took them on trips where they saw the actual places the history took place, and talked with people that were experts on what happened in those places.

If parents just hand their kids over to the schools, and ignore the education, the kids will adapt the same attitude.


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## Brain357 (Oct 27, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


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You seem to live in a fantasy world.  My kids learn a lot of academics obviously.  Indoctrination?  More crazy right wing conspiracy talk.  Come find the real world.


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## kaz (Oct 27, 2016)

Old Rocks said:


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What a stupid anecdotal argument.  The point is our schools are expensive and crappy.  Saying you know one good public school is the intellectual void in a government educated student that contradicts your claim you went to a good pubic school

I went to a combination of public and private depending where I lived, so did my kids.  That every public school is bad isn't the point.

And yes, you know who turns over their kids?  The richer the schools were were in, the more the parents were engaged.  We lived in Connecticut in one of the most expensive areas of the country and for most kids both parents were there, even if they weren't together.  And again how expensive our schools are shows that throwing money at the problem isn't the solution


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## Brain357 (Oct 27, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


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Then argue against their findings.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 27, 2016)

koshergrl said:


> Kids of free people are dumbed down in government schools. They make amoeba like Old Fag feel smarter, because amoeba are such blank slates themselves..they suck up all that conditioning and turn into the exact sort of useful idiot the criminals in charge depend on to snitch out their neighbors.
> 
> HItler Youth turned SS.
> 
> The only cure is a bullet.



So, Kosher wishes to shoot the present generation of our children? The only cure is a bullet? What kind of shit talk is that?


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## Rustic (Oct 27, 2016)

Brain357 said:


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Indoctrination only happens if the federal government is in charge of any sort of education, the federal government is fucked up.


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## whitehall (Oct 27, 2016)

A kid can get ahead even if he is a victim of public ed but he has to apply himself. This is not encouraged in the federal system. Minorities are taught to be victims and the majority learns how they victimized the minorities. Meanwhile everyone learns how to put a condom on a cucumber.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 27, 2016)

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Well now, isn't that exactly what I said?


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## brummelben (Oct 27, 2016)

whitehall said:


> A kid can get ahead even if he is a victim of public ed but he has to apply himself. This is not encouraged in the federal system. Minorities are taught to be victims and the majority learns how they victimized the minorities. Meanwhile everyone learns how to put a condom on a cucumber.


What is the Federal system that you speak of?


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## kaz (Oct 27, 2016)

Old Rocks said:


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> ...



Um ... yeah ... that's what she said.  Say again how you went to a good public school, they taught you good to read English, some of it


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## kaz (Oct 27, 2016)

Old Rocks said:


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You know who turns over their kids? The richer the schools were were in, the more the parents were engaged. We lived in Connecticut in one of the most expensive areas of the country and for most kids both parents were there, even if they weren't together. And again how expensive our schools are shows that throwing money at the problem isn't the solution


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## koshergrl (Oct 27, 2016)

Brain357 said:


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As a brainwashed minion yourself, your ability to discern what constitutes "learning" is suspect, I'm afraid. Sorry.


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## Rustic (Oct 27, 2016)

Brain357 said:


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No tinfoil hat needed, I just don't believe anything the federal government says. Federal government's job is to fuck over its citizens... fact


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## brummelben (Oct 27, 2016)

koshergrl said:


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Its hard to take anything you say seriously considering you believe that Federal government controls the public schools


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## brummelben (Oct 27, 2016)

Rustic said:


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The Federal government does not control public schools


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## Rustic (Oct 27, 2016)

brummelben said:


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That's the point, the federal government should never control anything in public schools or any other school. It's common knowledge they hate homeschooling because they have absolutely zero control over that. So fuck the federal government and their fucked up career politicians... lol


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## brummelben (Oct 27, 2016)

Rustic said:


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The federal government does not control public schools, period!


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## gipper (Oct 27, 2016)

Brain357 said:


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Oh brother....p-schools kids watch Fat Albert's end of the world AGW lies and for an added bonus, watch Fat Mikey Moore's left wing movies.  Now...name one film they watch that is right wing?  This is to say nothing of the non-stop PC, diversity, homosexual, moral equivalence, big government wonderfulness, socialist shit storm indoctrination they also get.

You don't see the indoctrination...because you are purposely blind.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 27, 2016)

Sometimes public schools produce dumb kids.  Mike Pence went to public school, for example.


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## koshergrl (Oct 27, 2016)

"In 1980, Congress established the Department of Education as a Cabinet level agency. Today, ED operates programs that touch on every area and level of education. The Department's elementary and secondary programs annually serve nearly 18,200 school districts and over 50 million students attending roughly 98,000 public schools and 32,000 private schools. Department programs also provide grant, loan, and work-study assistance to more than 12 million postsecondary students."  Federal Role in Education


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## Rustic (Oct 27, 2016)

brummelben said:


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That's the point like I said before, there's no way of the federal government should be involved whatsoever in any education, education in the federal government is indoctrination. lol


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## kaz (Oct 27, 2016)

brummelben said:


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You're not familiar with no child gets ahead?


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## Iceweasel (Oct 27, 2016)

Brain357 said:


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I didn't say they taught no academics. Learn to read.


U.S. education spending tops global list, study shows
The United States spends more than other developed nations on its students' education each year, with parents and private foundations picking up more of the costs, an international survey released Tuesday found.

US 17th In Global Education Ranking; Finland, South Korea Claim Top Spots
The U.S. was ranked 17th in an assessment of the education systems of 50 countries, behind several Scandinavian and Asian nations, which claimed the top spots.

Finland and South Korea grabbed first and second places, respectively, in a global league table published by the education firm Pearson, while Hong Kong, Japan and Singapore ranked third, fourth and fifth, respectively.


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## Rustic (Oct 27, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> Sometimes public schools produce dumb kids.  Mike Pence went to public school, for example.


 He is a career politician, and a pseudo-conservative… LOL


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## Brain357 (Oct 27, 2016)

Rustic said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Rustic said:
> ...



Really?  That is the government our founders set up is it?  What a patriot you are.


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## brummelben (Oct 27, 2016)

gipper said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
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Public schools are controlled by school boards, made up of parents in those schools.


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## gipper (Oct 27, 2016)

brummelben said:


> gipper said:
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Means nothing dick head. Most are leftists.


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## Iceweasel (Oct 27, 2016)

Brain357 said:


> Iceweasel said:
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I dismissed it for the garbage it is. No scholarly article would phrase things that way so you are too stupid to realize it.


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## Rustic (Oct 27, 2016)

Brain357 said:


> Rustic said:
> 
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The federal government failed on their mission in a long, long time ago… Fact


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## brummelben (Oct 27, 2016)

gipper said:


> brummelben said:
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> > gipper said:
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That must be the intellectual comment of the day congrats!


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## Brain357 (Oct 27, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> Brain357 said:
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Sounds like we should pay teachers more:

“Having a better [teacher] is statistically linked not only to higher income later in life but to a range of social results, including lower chances of teenage pregnancy and a greater tendency to save for their own retirement,” the report noted.


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## pismoe (Oct 27, 2016)

esthermoon said:


> I don't believe public schools are so bad in US. They work pretty well I guess. I know many Americans have studied there and I'm sure not all of them are dumb
> Here we have public schools and not public schools too.
> Our public education system is pretty good maybe one of the best in Asia


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------   as if YOU , a person in 'viet nam' knows what she is talking about concerning Public Schools in the USA eh Esther !!


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## gipper (Oct 27, 2016)

brummelben said:


> gipper said:
> 
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> > Brain357 said:
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Ever hear of Common Core?  Where did it come from and who is demanding it be implemented?


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## Iceweasel (Oct 27, 2016)

brummelben said:


> gipper said:
> 
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> > Brain357 said:
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They are controlled by administrators of districts that make huge salaries and many districts to an area to spread the wealth among themselves.


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## Dr.Traveler (Oct 27, 2016)

Some of the worst, absolute worst schools in the nation are in Red states.  Look at 40-51 on that list.  Every one of them leans Red most elections. There are no Blue or even leaning Blue states.  Or check this list.  Red States dominate nearly every "bad" category.  So if low education is yielding anything, it's more Republican voters.

But there is a problem with the schools, and the big issue is parental involvement.  No amount of money thrown at schools is going to fix things until parents are more involved.  And the reason less parents are involved?  Because it takes two incomes in the USA now to actually allow a family of four to have a middle class lifestyle.  With my wife and I working, we were making six figures a year in combined income.  But the kids were starting to suffer in school despite being able to hire tutors, education specialists, occupational and speech therapists, and sending them to the best private school in town.  She left her job and now our income is 5 figures.  But the kids are doing a whole heck of a lot better in a public school because Mom is available to help them.

Bottom line:  Parents make a huge difference.  And this isn't getting better until we get to the point that someone (Mom or Dad) can stay home with the kids.


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## koshergrl (Oct 27, 2016)

brummelben said:


> gipper said:
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> > Brain357 said:
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And educated by those schools.
A


gipper said:


> brummelben said:
> 
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> > gipper said:
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He has a point though...we have to vote the elitist asshat commies off our school boards and replace them with charismatic free men and women.


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## Brain357 (Oct 27, 2016)

brummelben said:


> gipper said:
> 
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> > brummelben said:
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He must have a private school education.  So does bigly trump no doubt.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 27, 2016)

Rustic said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Sometimes public schools produce dumb kids.  Mike Pence went to public school, for example.
> ...



So he's everything the Trump cult despises.


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## koshergrl (Oct 27, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> brummelben said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
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Our middle school principal just became our superintendent. He is about 450 lbs of sweaty palmed communist, and the worthless pig he chose to replace him at the Middle School is even worse. I am going to haunt their dumbasses at the school board meetings just to remind them on a monthly basis to stay the fuck away from my kids.

And to ask them the questions that nobody else has the balls to ask.

And it pisses me off. Men are supposed to do this. Fathers. Not fucking working mothers and grandmas. Dumbasses need to step up.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 27, 2016)

koshergrl said:


> brummelben said:
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Then why don't you?  Elect the people you want to the school boards.


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## gipper (Oct 27, 2016)

Brain357 said:


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> > gipper said:
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It is tough dealing with idiots.  I admit it.  

To NOT know the p-schools are a disaster in most districts and are nearly entirely controlled by leftists, makes one a FOOL.  I do not suffer fools well.


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## Rustic (Oct 27, 2016)

Brain357 said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
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> > Brain357 said:
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Some of the best off people I know are teachers, the teachers I know have other incomes from their time off you know like all summer every single holiday imaginable.
Most teachers that I know that have been teaching quite a while own their businesses on the side because They do have all summer off.


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## pismoe (Oct 27, 2016)

OldLady said:


> I think all of you that are grumbling should get active on your local school boards, donate to the PTA fund raisers for $ for updated text books, and if you can, volunteer to tutor in the after school program.
> Watters is funny, but do you know how many people he probably interviewed to get some of those stupendously stupid answers?


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------   silly talk , Americans pay taxes . maybe taxes should be raised and maybe highly paid and incompetent teachers should be paid LESS and the UNION Protectors should be gotten rid of so that teachers can be easily fired if they are incompetent OldLady !!


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## brummelben (Oct 27, 2016)

koshergrl said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
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move elsewhere, putz


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## esthermoon (Oct 27, 2016)

pismoe said:


> esthermoon said:
> 
> 
> > I don't believe public schools are so bad in US. They work pretty well I guess. I know many Americans have studied there and I'm sure not all of them are dumb
> ...


I read something about American education system on the web 
Something like this: 

Education in the United States - Wikipedia

Understanding the American Education System


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## Dr.Traveler (Oct 27, 2016)

gipper said:


> brummelben said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
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No, they're not.  County by county there are more red counties than blue in the USA, meaning most school boards are populated by folks who come from Republican leaning districts.  They're either Republican leaning themselves or are selected by Republican voters.

States have most of the control over schools and again, most of the State legislators are controlled by the GOP.  Who also control every state college or University through budgetary powers or the power to appoint members of various Board of Trustees.  Even in the case of private schools, the board of Trustees are typically successful alumni (read businessmen), which is a fairly reliable Republican demographic.


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## Iceweasel (Oct 27, 2016)

Brain357 said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
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The unions won't allow for ridding the district of under performing teachers. You are wearing blinders.

"The United States spends more than other developed nations on its students' education each year,"


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## Rustic (Oct 27, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
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You do know a career politician can't possibly be conservative?
Lol


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## Dr.Traveler (Oct 27, 2016)

gipper said:


> brummelben said:
> 
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> > gipper said:
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Most of the push for Common core comes from the US Military.  Military Brats get pretty screwed up education-wise when moved from base to base because standards across States are incompatible.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 27, 2016)

Rustic said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
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Who told you that?


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## gipper (Oct 27, 2016)

koshergrl said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
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Most padministrators


Dr.Traveler said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > brummelben said:
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Idiot...means nothing if the state is red or blue.  Education in the US is controlled by leftists.


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## brummelben (Oct 27, 2016)

Dr.Traveler said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > brummelben said:
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Trump tell us that when he is elected he is going to eliminate common core. That just goes to show what an ignoramus he is, and how he plays to the uneducated right. Common core is a state program not federal


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## Brain357 (Oct 27, 2016)

gipper said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
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They don't spend a lot of time watching movies...   that is your argument?  You can't be serious.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 27, 2016)

Dr.Traveler said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > brummelben said:
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That's just more evidence that the far right, as a subset of the right, doesn't realize what a small minority they are in the big picture.  Americans don't want the far right running our schools.


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## koshergrl (Oct 27, 2016)

brummelben said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > brummelben said:
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Show any representation of  *dick* to an American lefty with a desire to *educate* children and they ALWAYS get all giddy. 

Why do you think that is?


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## pismoe (Oct 27, 2016)

and WATTERS World is good , people should watch the interviews especially of college kids .     Search his links which i will put up in a bit for anyone that is interested OldLady !!


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## Rustic (Oct 27, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
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What is the definition of conservative?
 Answering that makes the the question obvious there is no way a career politician can be in anyway conservative. No two ways about it


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## koshergrl (Oct 27, 2016)

Dr.Traveler said:


> Some of the worst, absolute worst schools in the nation are in Red states.  Look at 40-51 on that list.  Every one of them leans Red most elections. There are no Blue or even leaning Blue states.  Or check this list.  Red States dominate nearly every "bad" category.  So if low education is yielding anything, it's more Republican voters.
> 
> But there is a problem with the schools, and the big issue is parental involvement.  No amount of money thrown at schools is going to fix things until parents are more involved.  And the reason less parents are involved?  Because it takes two incomes in the USA now to actually allow a family of four to have a middle class lifestyle.  With my wife and I working, we were making six figures a year in combined income.  But the kids were starting to suffer in school despite being able to hire tutors, education specialists, occupational and speech therapists, and sending them to the best private school in town.  She left her job and now our income is 5 figures.  But the kids are doing a whole heck of a lot better in a public school because Mom is available to help them.
> 
> Bottom line:  Parents make a huge difference.  And this isn't getting better until we get to the point that someone (Mom or Dad) can stay home with the kids.



Yes, and the first thing parents need to do is to hold the feet of their teachers to the fire.


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## Dr.Traveler (Oct 27, 2016)

gipper said:


> Idiot...means nothing if the state is red or blue.  Education in the US is controlled by leftists.


Oh it most certainly means everything.  You're worried public schools are dumbing down the voters?  IF, and it's a big IF, we accept your premise that means those dumbed down voters are coming out of school and voting...Republican.  So by your own logic, poor education leads to Republican voters.

It also makes a difference because if you're in a GOP leaning state, then probably your school board, state legislature, and governor are all GOP.  School boards especially are decided by Republican leaning voters as they often happen during off cycle elections which favor GOP turn out and have reduced DNC turnout.

So again, the guys holding most of the levers in this process are Republicans.  Overwhelmingly.  And they produce Republicans.


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## koshergrl (Oct 27, 2016)

brummelben said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
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Why would I move? I was here first.


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## koshergrl (Oct 27, 2016)

Dr.Traveler said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Idiot...means nothing if the state is red or blue.  Education in the US is controlled by leftists.
> ...


That is a huge line of horseshit. From beginning to end, and you support none of it. Primarily because it's not true, I imagine.


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## gipper (Oct 27, 2016)

Brain357 said:


> gipper said:
> 
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> > Brain357 said:
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Dumb ass....do you dispute that the p-schools show those movies to their students?

Name one right wing movie they are forced to watch.


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## Soggy in NOLA (Oct 27, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> Dr.Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...



Yeah, 'cause you guys have done a bang-up job.  Guess what, private and parochial schools are typically run by more conservative types and they turn out much higher caliber students.  You do the math... well, get someone to help you do the math.


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## brummelben (Oct 27, 2016)

koshergrl said:


> brummelben said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
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Why stay where you are not happy, I am sure you could find a nice conservative school district in Arkansas or Mississippi with the educational equivalent of a 3rd world country


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## Dr.Traveler (Oct 27, 2016)

koshergrl said:


> Dr.Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > Some of the worst, absolute worst schools in the nation are in Red states.  Look at 40-51 on that list.  Every one of them leans Red most elections. There are no Blue or even leaning Blue states.  Or check this list.  Red States dominate nearly every "bad" category.  So if low education is yielding anything, it's more Republican voters.
> ...


I'd agree, pushing back against teachers when they're wrong is parent responsibility.  But it's hard to do that when both parents are putting in 40 hours a week to be middle class.  Which is really unfortunate because the only way to really know what's going on with your schools is to volunteer, show up in the classroom, talk to your kids, and talk to your teachers (not necessarily in that order, but all important).  And again, if you're putting in 40 hours a week it's tough to do.  If both parents are doing that, it's impossible.

That's the aspect of all this that gets lost in this debate, and it may be the most important.  I can say from experience that no amount of money we threw at our children's education solved the problems.  What did solve the problem was time.  Specifically, our time as parents.


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## brummelben (Oct 27, 2016)

Soggy in NOLA said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Dr.Traveler said:
> ...


Would you show us some stats to back up your point, or again is this just your biased opinion?


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## koshergrl (Oct 27, 2016)

brummelben said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
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Who said I was unhappy? I said the superintendent is a 450 lb sweaty palmed commie and the principal is a whiny sack of shit...

But that's an observation of their primary characteristics, not a commentary on my happiness. 

See this is a perfect example of what happens when people are indoctrinated, rather than educated. Your thought processes don't follow. You don't react or pick up on words...you just go with whatever your own emotions and bias lead you to believe. Reality is meaningless to you.


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## Brain357 (Oct 27, 2016)

gipper said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
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> > gipper said:
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Name a right wing movie you would have them watch?

What is so left wing about fat Albert?

Given movies are like .01% of schooling you have about 0 argument.


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## Dr.Traveler (Oct 27, 2016)

brummelben said:


> Soggy in NOLA said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...


Soggy in NOLA is in Louisiana.  I was there for 9 years myself, and he's right.  The public schools are in a whole other class of quality from the private schools.  There's no comparison at all.

What helps the private schools in Louisiana out is the fact that:

1.  They can self select their student population
2.  If you're paying money to educate your children out of your own pocket, you can be damn sure you're going to get involved.

 I will say even with that, my son is doing better in a public school in the Midwest than he was in a private school in Louisiana because we as parents have more time to be involved.


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## paulitician (Oct 27, 2016)

American parents should always seek alternative education options before sending their children into the Public School Nightmare. The System really is a mess. It's all Communist/Progressive Democrat brainwashing now. It's about them forcing their political and social agendas on the children. 

And then you have all the sexual assaults being committed by degenerate teachers as well. That's become rampant in Public Schools. I seriously recommend parents consider other options. Sending their children into today's Public School System is a dangerous gamble at best.


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## pismoe (Oct 27, 2016)

here you go , more from Jesse Wattars   OldLady .   ---   Watters’ World: How Would College Students Deal With ISIS?  ---


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## koshergrl (Oct 27, 2016)

Dr.Traveler said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Dr.Traveler said:
> ...


Well see that's a result of the themes our public education has woven through all aspects of life over the past 50 years. The idea that it's cool for teens to have sex, that single parenthood is perfectly fine, that we don't have the right to expect exceptionalism. The result is generations of single parents...and single parents who work (I'm one)..yup you're right, they aren't a heavy presence on the PTA and school board meetings because they just don't have the time. They also don't have money..sometimes money can offset the time issue. But single parents have neither. 

Which of course was perfectly understood by the mavens, personality cults and educators of the sixties who put this plan for America in motion....


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## gipper (Oct 27, 2016)

Brain357 said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


F**k you.  Name one right wing movie they watch.

Just one...dick head.


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## Dr.Traveler (Oct 27, 2016)

koshergrl said:


> Dr.Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...


You can see School rankings by state here and here. The bottom spots are dominated by states that are traditionally Republican leaning, as you can check here.  The break down of party by county map is here.  You can check state by state control of legislatures here.

All this stuff is pretty well known and can be found using google and a few spare minutes.  That supports all the things I said above.  The GOP overwhelmingly controls the State Legislatures, and counties and produces some of the worst schools, state by state.  Which in turn keep voting GOP.


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## Brain357 (Oct 27, 2016)

gipper said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...


Brilliant response.  Private schools for you no doubt.

What is a right wing movie?   What is left wing about fat albert?  Sorry to bring you back to reality.


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## Dr.Traveler (Oct 27, 2016)

koshergrl said:


> Dr.Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...


I don't know about your last sentence, but I agree.  It's tough for single parents.  Their ability to be involved is almost non-existent.  But it isn't a whole lot better on that front for a lot of traditional families either.  When both parents are working the whole thing starts to fall apart.  It's a tough problem to fix, and I have no idea how you fix it.


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## pismoe (Oct 27, 2016)

here you go OldLady , these youts are college age , either fresh from 'high screwl' and ready for College .   Or maybe a few years outa 'high screwl' . ---   'The South Won the Civil War?' Beach Babes Bomb Watters' World Memorial Day Quiz   ---  Anyway , these dummies , products of public education vote OldLady !!


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## pismoe (Oct 27, 2016)

Dr.Traveler said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Dr.Traveler said:
> ...


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## koshergrl (Oct 27, 2016)

Dr.Traveler said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Dr.Traveler said:
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But there's the conundrum...Republican areas of our country have been destroyed economically by the communists in power. The result is that they are even more dependent on federal programs than the wealthy Dems who can afford private schools. The poorest states are the states with the most intrusive federal government presence. You think it's a coincidence that they happen to be "Republican"? We've been targeted by dems for DECADES. They want us poor and dead. Our kids in rural America are deliberately targeted for dumbing down. I can list off a dozen community programs right now that are targeting rural areas, just as they targeted the poor populations of the cities in the 70s.


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## SassyIrishLass (Oct 27, 2016)

Old Rocks said:


> SassyIrishLass said:
> 
> 
> > Timmy said:
> ...



One room schoolhouse, old timer?


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## Dr.Traveler (Oct 27, 2016)

koshergrl said:


> Dr.Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...


I don't have a lot of answers for this one, I'll confess.  This gets into what the hell happened to the US Economy in the 80's to present.  Is it the fault of any one party that a lot of the jobs that let high school educated folks have middle class life styles disappeared?  That I can't weigh in on.  The 80's were bad for manufacturing, but no decade since has been all that great either.

I will say this:  whatever has happened it's produced Republican voters by the droves.  It's no secret if you look at the county by county map posted earlier that the rural areas are absolutely dominated by the GOP.  Now how that all fits together with the economy, education, and party affiliation is up in the air.


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## Iceweasel (Oct 27, 2016)

Dr.Traveler said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Dr.Traveler said:
> ...


Reagan was polling badly against Carter but won bigly. It shocked the media talking heads. GDP went way up because he practiced conservative principles, lowering taxes, eased up on business regulations and pushing supply side economics. 

I don't know where you heard the 80s was bad for manufacturing. Maybe not as good as it was but the world changed. Japan and Germany rebuilt (with our help) and entered to global marketplace while we had been unchallenged.


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## Brain357 (Oct 27, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> Dr.Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
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And he increased debt.


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## gipper (Oct 27, 2016)

Brain357 said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Dr.Traveler said:
> ...


Yep and Obama doubled the national debt, but you don't know that fact and if you do , you don't care.  Oh but that Reagan!!!!


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## regent (Oct 27, 2016)

My high school with 5000 students had a 75% dropout rate. The kids that graduated probably had a fair education. Then the public began to have trouble with the dropouts on the streets, and so a new demand came to pass, "Keep em in school."  I think we still are trying to keep em in school but to do so, schools have had to make adjustments, social promotion and so forth.


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## Unkotare (Oct 27, 2016)

bodecea said:


> It's all Reading/Writing/Math now...no Geography is taught.



Yes, it is. Not as comprehensively as it could be, but it's there.


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## Unkotare (Oct 27, 2016)

SassyIrishLass said:


> Timmy said:
> 
> 
> > SassyIrishLass said:
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Your OCD medication is failing.


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## SassyIrishLass (Oct 27, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> SassyIrishLass said:
> 
> 
> > Timmy said:
> ...



You're way past annoying, let me guess you're an "educator" in the failing public school system....if not you're just an annoying asshole


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## Unkotare (Oct 27, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > The type of school doesn't matter if the parents are not active.
> ...





Not really.


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## gipper (Oct 27, 2016)

Dr.Traveler said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > brummelben said:
> ...



My wife and I promised before our children were born, that they would NEVER walk the halls of a p-school.  We kept that promise.  My children turned out to be honest, ethical, and responsible people.  They do not expect others or the stinking government to take care of them.

What the Left has done to the p-schools, is a crime,


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## brummelben (Oct 27, 2016)

gipper said:


> Dr.Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...


You got me here, my curiosity is perked. What has the "left" done to public school students?


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## Iceweasel (Oct 27, 2016)

Brain357 said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Dr.Traveler said:
> ...


Along with the Dems. Much of it was spent on defeating communism, something the left will never forgive.


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## Iceweasel (Oct 27, 2016)

brummelben said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Dr.Traveler said:
> ...


Translation = I can't see what I don't believe.


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## Timmy (Oct 27, 2016)

America is the worldwide center of innovation , business, science, etc..  Our colleges and universities attract international students from across the planet.   But  our school system is a failure ?  That is illogical . 

Sure there are bad schools .  There are also great schools .  And we educate EVERYONE.  Even those wh disabilities and issues .


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## Timmy (Oct 27, 2016)

brummelben said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Dr.Traveler said:
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Terrible things !  Like getting the poor and handicapped access !!  Monsters !


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## gipper (Oct 27, 2016)

brummelben said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Dr.Traveler said:
> ...


Another really DUMB question.

If you don't know, I can't help you.  You are too far gone.


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## gipper (Oct 27, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> brummelben said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...


Or don't know.  If any American is unaware of the failure of p-schools, they are clearly uninformed.  Probably gets all their information from left wing sources.


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## Meathead (Oct 27, 2016)

Timmy said:


> America is the worldwide center of innovation , business, science, etc..  Our colleges and universities attract international students from across the planet.   But  our school system is a failure ?  That is illogical .
> 
> Sure there are bad schools .  There are also great schools .  And we educate EVERYONE.  Even those wh disabilities and issues .


America is, in fact, a magnate for post-secondary education for students around the world. It is the production of masses of semi-literate students from US secondary schools that's the problem. It is the increasingly low expectations of American parents, faculty and the secondary schools themselves which is at fault.

 In an effort to not offend by graduating underachievers who cannot face the rigors of much more than "refrigerator" colleges (Big Mike Brown) is where America and public education has failed.


----------



## Dr.Traveler (Oct 27, 2016)

gipper said:


> Dr.Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...


I'm curious what region of the country you live in.  In the Midwest, schools are pretty good and have been good for decades.  In my graduating class we have engineers, actuaries, corporate types, professors, doctors, etc.  And that's a class that was in the mid 100's.  That's hardly unique in the Midwest.

Now when I lived in the South I worked hard to keep my kids out of public schools.  The South absolutely dominates the lists when you talk about badly run and underperforming schools.  They've systematically defunded K12 and broken down tenure laws to nothing down there following Brown vs. the Board of Education.  There was massive white flight even in the early 00's where I was in Louisiana because even then the schools were segregated (cleverly) and the Feds had to step in and redraw district lines.  Once that happened even more parents left for private school and even less funding for public school was available.

I'm back in the Midwest now and my kids schools are pretty awesome.  Easily on par, and maybe better, than what I had as a kid.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro (Oct 27, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> I went to public school.



No shit


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 27, 2016)

Meathead said:


> Timmy said:
> 
> 
> > America is the worldwide center of innovation , business, science, etc..  Our colleges and universities attract international students from across the planet.   But  our school system is a failure ?  That is illogical .
> ...


----------



## gipper (Oct 27, 2016)

Dr.Traveler said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Dr.Traveler said:
> ...



Good lord...

I am in the Midwest, but that again means nothing.  Do you think p-schools in the inner cities of the Midwest are good?  I would bet you dollars to donuts you would never send your kids to p-schools in Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Dayton, Milwaukee, etc.....but it is not just the inner cities that suck.  Wherever a p-school is located it is likely to fail in educating students.  Yes...there are exceptions, but they are few and far between.

Anecdote
My son went to one the nation's best engineering universities.  He was so well prepared by his private high school, that he did not have to work hard until his junior year.  He said his buddies from the p-schools considered him a genius, because they had to work their tails off.  He graduated summa cum laude.


----------



## Dr.Traveler (Oct 27, 2016)

gipper said:


> Dr.Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...


Inner city schools anywhere are questionable.  For the most part though, even there the Midwest is still pretty on top of the game.

I've known a lot of public schooled kids that go on to college and kick ass.  I've seen a lot of private school kids come out middling to average.  Your son's success is mostly due to him to be honest.  Teachers can at most encourage interest and support what a student is willing to do.


----------



## koshergrl (Oct 27, 2016)

brummelben said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Dr.Traveler said:
> ...



It's a waste arguing with people who deny reality and have no concept of truth or history.


----------



## koshergrl (Oct 27, 2016)

gipper said:


> Dr.Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...


Have you listened to old fag talk about his superior, public ed children?

It's nauseating.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Oct 27, 2016)

Conservatives hate public schools because public schools don't let science classes teach that the Earth is 6000 years old
and that Jesus was a dinosaur wrangler.  

That's really about all there is to it.


----------



## Timmy (Oct 27, 2016)

Dr.Traveler said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Dr.Traveler said:
> ...



Schools have a lot of local control .  If you eliminate red state scores, US students suddenly are top 10 in the world .


----------



## gipper (Oct 27, 2016)

Dr.Traveler said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Dr.Traveler said:
> ...


Glad you admit inner city schools suck.  Generations of poor children are getting screwed by the left establishment, that is more interested in pleasing the teachers unions to get their money, then educating kids.  It is a crime of enormous proportions, yet nothing is done.

Of course, the problem goes much deeper than inner city schools.  All p-schools are questionable...yes some are good, but most are bad.


----------



## brummelben (Oct 27, 2016)

gipper said:


> Dr.Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...


The problems with inner city schools have nothing to do with teachers unions, or the establishment. Its all about the kids and their families. Too many kids who can't speak English, too many parents who aren't involved in their childs education. No matter how hard the teachers try, if parents aren't onboard its a losing battle.


----------



## gipper (Oct 27, 2016)

brummelben said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Dr.Traveler said:
> ...


BS another made up excuse to divert attention from the real culprit...the teachers, the unions and administrators.  

My father grew up poor during the Great Depression.  His mother died when he was eight and his father was a raging alcoholic.  In other words, his parents were not involved in his education as many parents aren't involved...this is nothing new, but your use of this BS excuse proves you are uninformed.  However, he did well getting a law degree using the GI Bill.  Thing is teachers back then had a great deal of authority.  You did not screw up in school or else there were consequences.  There are no consequences today.


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 27, 2016)

brummelben said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Dr.Traveler said:
> ...




If kids in school don't speak English, they are hard at work learning it.


----------



## gipper (Oct 27, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> brummelben said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...


This not speaking English is another BS excuse.  Millions of Americans in past generations did not speak English but it did not stop them.


----------



## thanatos144 (Oct 27, 2016)

gipper said:


> So true...and may explain why criminals like Hillary could be POTUS.  The dumbing down of America has benefited the socialist party tremendously, but they still want more dummies imported from third world...and the R party is too feeble minded to stop it.
> 
> No wonder so many are socialists, says the Great Walter Williams.
> 
> ...


It certainly explains how Trump got the nomination.


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 27, 2016)

gipper said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > brummelben said:
> ...








What do you mean?


----------



## gipper (Oct 27, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


For example, my mother and wife both started school not knowing a word of English. In short order, they were proficient but that was before leftists took over the p-schools.


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 27, 2016)

gipper said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...





Define "short order" and "proficient" as you understand them.


----------



## psikeyhackr (Oct 27, 2016)

Today I listened to a high school teacher talking about high school kids not reading *Animal Farm*.  The way she said it I wasn't sure if they could not read or refused to read it.  I read it in high school decades ago.  But I wonder why anyone would want to read that obsolete junk.  Is it really about issues today's kids will need to deal with.  AI, robots, consumer brainwashing and climate change.  What books are worth using for education?

*The Space Merchants* from 1952 was published 7 years after *Animal Farm* would be more relevant to the world today.

All of this complaining about schools and no suggestions about what kids would be better off reading.  And *Project Gutenberg* is free.

All Books (sorted by release date)

*Siddhartha,* by Herman Hesse
Siddhartha,     by Hermann Hesse

*Worlds Within Worlds: The Story of Nuclear Energy*, by Isaac Asimov
Worlds Within Worlds: The Story of Nuclear Energy, Volume 3; Nuclear Fission; Nuclear Fusion; Beyond Fusion

*Omnilingual*, by H. Beam Piper
The Project Gutenberg eBook of Omnilingual, by H. Beam Piper

*The Age of Stupid - full documentary (Official) *

psik


----------



## P@triot (Oct 28, 2016)

Truer words were never spoke gipper. Just look at what progressives have done to our education system...

Less than 50% (of youngsters between 18 and 24 years of age polled by National Geographic and Roper Public Affairs) could identify New York and Ohio on a U.S. map

60% could not find Iraq or Saudi Arabia on a map of the Middle East

75% could not find Iran or Israel

44% could not locate even one of those four countries.
According to a Philadelphia magazine article:

The percentage of college grads who can read and interpret a food label has fallen from 40% to 30% 

They are 6x's likelier to know who won “American Idol” than they are to know the name of the speaker of the House

A high school teacher in California handed out an assignment that required students to use a ruler. Not a single student knew how
According to a study done by the American Institutes for Research:

Revealed over 75% of two-year college students and 50% of four-year college students were incapable of completing everyday tasks.

About 20% of four-year college students demonstrated only basic mathematical ability

While a steeper 30% of two-year college students could not progress past elementary arithmetic
NBC News reported:

Fortune 500 companies spend about $3 billion annually to train employees in “basic English.”
Reported by Just Facts:

In 2009, the Pentagon estimated that 65% of 17- to 24-year-olds in the U.S. were unqualified for military service because of weak educational skills, poor physical fitness, illegal drug usage, medical conditions, or criminal records. 

In January 2014, the commander of the U.S. Army Recruiting Command estimated this figure at 77.5%

And in June 2014, the Department of Defense estimated this figure at 71%.
The Astonishing Ignorance of Young Adults


----------



## gipper (Oct 29, 2016)

P@triot said:


> Truer words were never spoke gipper. Just look at what progressives have done to our education system...
> 
> Less than 50% (of youngsters between 18 and 24 years of age polled by National Geographic and Roper Public Affairs) could identify New York and Ohio on a U.S. map
> 
> ...


Agreed....yet many on the left don't know this reality, proving the dumbing down of America has been an enormous success.  They don't know who is at fault and will defend the failing p-schools.

*Those who know the least obey the best. * No truer statement has ever been spoken...the political class and the wealthy statist elite know this statement well and have made sure it is national policy.


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

psikeyhackr said:


> Today I listened to a high school teacher talking about high school kids not reading *Animal Farm*.  The way she said it I wasn't sure if they could not read or refused to read it.  I read it in high school decades ago.  But I wonder why anyone would want to read that obsolete junk.  Is it really about issues today's kids will need to deal with.  ....




http://i.imgur.com/8VYMSq8.gif


----------



## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

psikeyhackr said:


> Today I listened to a high school teacher talking about high school kids not reading *Animal Farm*.  The way she said it I wasn't sure if they could not read or refused to read it.  I read it in high school decades ago.  But I wonder why anyone would want to read that obsolete junk.  Is it really about issues today's kids will need to deal with.  AI, robots, consumer brainwashing and climate change.  What books are worth using for education?
> 
> *The Space Merchants* from 1952 was published 7 years after *Animal Farm* would be more relevant to the world today.
> 
> ...


Animal Farm is a relevant today as it was when it was written.  In fact, Free Enterprise vs Socialism is the cosmic battle between good and evil.  That struggle has been going on for thousands of years.   There is no end in sight.


----------



## P@triot (Oct 29, 2016)

psikeyhackr said:


> Today I listened to a high school teacher talking about high school kids not reading *Animal Farm*.  The way she said it I wasn't sure if they could not read or refused to read it.  I read it in high school decades ago.  But I wonder why anyone would want to read that obsolete junk.  Is it really about issues today's kids will need to deal with.  AI, robots, consumer brainwashing and climate change.  What books are worth using for education?


I've LONG said that all of that crap was a complete waste of time (and the kind of stuff you get from progressives). They only thing children should read in school are autobiographies. Not only can children learn about how to succeed - but they can also learn what *not* to do. There is simply no value in reading A Farewell to Arms. That was designed to be _entertainment_.


----------



## psikeyhackr (Oct 29, 2016)

> Animal Farm is a relevant today as it was when it was written. In fact, Free Enterprise vs Socialism is the cosmic battle between good and evil. That struggle has been going on for thousands of years. There is no end in sight.



Free enterprise if just propaganda from the American Delusion.  It never existed.  But now our economists cannot tell the American people how much they lose every year on the depreciation of automobiles and pretend Planned Obsolescence is not happening.  That is why we can't deal with education problems.  Different groups want the schools to do their version of brainwashing.

Cars did not exist to any degree before 1900 and Henry Ford was called a "Traitor to his Class".  LOL

psik


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> ...
> Animal Farm is a relevant today as it was when it was written.  In fact, Free Enterprise vs Socialism is the cosmic battle between good and evil.  That struggle has been going on for thousands of years.   There is no end in sight.




Animal Farm is about more than just "Free Enterprise vs Socialism."


----------



## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

psikeyhackr said:


> > Animal Farm is a relevant today as it was when it was written. In fact, Free Enterprise vs Socialism is the cosmic battle between good and evil. That struggle has been going on for thousands of years. There is no end in sight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sure, it is an illusion, but it didn't used to be.


----------



## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


Sure, I didn't say it was.  It is about right and wrong and the rationalizations we make when we violate it.  It is about gradualism.  It is about propaganda.  But I'm all ears, please do tell what else you believe Animal Farm is about.


----------



## psikeyhackr (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Sure, I didn't say it was.  It is about right and wrong and the rationalizations we make when we violate it.  It is about gradualism.  It is about propaganda.  But I'm all ears, please do tell what else you believe Animal Farm is about.



Orwell already said that in 1945.  It is a fantasy allegory about Stalin's Communism.

But now we have to deal with an economy with self-driving cars and computers in children's pockets more powerful than 1980s mainframes.  What kind of computers were there in 1945?  I say Animal Farm is focusing on versions of problems from the past when these children will have to grow up dealing with entirely new problems from the future.

It is like generals fighting the last war.

psik


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

psikeyhackr said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...




Fix your quotes


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> .... please do tell what else you believe Animal Farm is about.



It's not a matter or what I "believe." These themes are well-known. 

It's about the abuse of language in order to abuse power, class division, power and control vs reality, and most of all the corruption of socialist ideals under Stalin in the USSR (Napoleon being Stalin and Snowflake being Trotsky). 

There is a great deal of symbolism and different motifs used to explore these themes.


----------



## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > .... please do tell what else you believe Animal Farm is about.
> ...


The abuse of language?  Really?  Wow, I did not realize that linguistics were at the root of all evils.  I always figured division was.  You know?  Kind of like what you do.

P.S.  Could you please try to be a more of a condescending ass in the future?


----------



## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

psikeyhackr said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Sure, I didn't say it was.  It is about right and wrong and the rationalizations we make when we violate it.  It is about gradualism.  It is about propaganda.  But I'm all ears, please do tell what else you believe Animal Farm is about.
> ...


I know.  I was highlighting the tactics that they used.  But who knew linguistics and quotes that needed fixing were the problem?


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...




If you ever read the book you'd know it is one of the major themes.


----------



## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


My goodness.  It's one of my favorite books.  Now go bleat your propaganda some where else.


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...




Then why do you understand so little about it?


----------



## psikeyhackr (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> My goodness. It's one of my favorite books. Now go bleat your propaganda some where else.



*ROFLMAO*

You could not even post here without a computer, but I am bleating propaganda because it is one of your favorite books.  

The Two Faces of Tomorrow (1979) by James P. Hogan is still the most reasonable AI story I know of.
http://www.baenebooks.com/chapters/0671878484/0671878484.htm

That is one of my favorite books.  Will children have to deal with Artificial Intelligence in the future?  Maybe the kids are dumb because most adults want them to waste time on obsolete drivel and the kids are smart enough to see that, but do not know enough to determine what is not drivel.

psik


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

Broken record again...^^^^^^


----------



## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

psikeyhackr said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > My goodness. It's one of my favorite books. Now go bleat your propaganda some where else.
> ...


I don't believe my comment was directed to you.  You might want to check that.  Or not.  Either way it's all good.


----------



## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


To a linguist everything revolves around linguistics.  I hate to be the one to break it to you but, no one cares about what you do.  Seriously.


----------



## psikeyhackr (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> I don't believe my comment was directed to you.  You might want to check that.  Or not.  Either way it's all good.



Then how was anyone supposed to tell who it was directed to if it was not about the immediately preceding post?

psik


----------



## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

psikeyhackr said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > I don't believe my comment was directed to you.  You might want to check that.  Or not.  Either way it's all good.
> ...


By clicking on the comment chain in the post.  My comment wasn't even below your comment.  Go back and see for yourself.  I was replying to unkotare, who apparently has an axe to grind with everyone, most of all me.  I could tell him the sky was blue and he would argue against it.


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...




When a plumber reads the book that is still one of its major themes, whether you like it or not. Are you sure you've read it?


----------



## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> When a plumber reads the book that is still one of its major themes, whether you like it or not. Are you sure you've read it?


Plumber?  I'm an engineer.  I've been one for 31 years, amigo.  Besides, what do you have against plumbers?  Are you so high and mighty that you look down on plumbers.  You do realize those guys pull down way more than teachers do, right?


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...




No one asked what you do.


----------



## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> No one asked what you do.


Sure you did.  When you tried to make what you thought was disparaging remark, you opened the door for this discussion.


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...




No, I really didn't. A little weak in the reading comprehension department, aren't you?


----------



## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> No, I really didn't. A little weak in the reading comprehension department, aren't you?


Nope.  I'm pretty good at it.  Maybe you are the one who is struggling with comprehension.  I explained it very clearly.


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...




Evidently not.


----------



## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> Evidently not.


That would be your opinion, but since you dismiss raising standards and accountability, your opinion does not carry much weight with me.  You are too liberal minded for me.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Evidently not.
> ...




Do you know what "evidently" means?


----------



## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> Do you know what "evidently" means?


Sure I do.  I also know that you were arguing with me against raising standards and accountability in another thread.  So there's that.


----------



## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> Do you know what "evidently" means?


Do you always edit out comments so that they can be taken out of context?  That's a nasty habit.  Do they ban people for that?


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Do you know what "evidently" means?
> ...




Answer the question.


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Do you know what "evidently" means?
> ...




That is, of course, a lie. You're back to the 3rd grade again.


----------



## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


No.  It's all in black and white.  I leave the lying to you.


----------



## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


I did answer the question.  You must have forgotten what question you asked.  What question do you think you asked?


----------



## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


Do you always edit out comments so that they can be taken out of context? That's a nasty habit. Do they ban people for that?


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> ...Do you always edit out comments ......





I never edit comments. I respond to the parts of comments that are pertinent. I never change anyone's words.


----------



## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > ...Do you always edit out comments ......
> ...


No.  You just take them out of context to muddy the water.  Your language skills suck.


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> .....  I leave the lying to you.





That's why you're the only one doing it? You fail again, 3rd grade.


----------



## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > .....  I leave the lying to you.
> ...


I see that you are projecting again.


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> .... Your language skills suck.




Quite the contrary.


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...




No, 3rd grade. You fail again.


----------



## P@triot (Oct 30, 2016)

psikeyhackr said:


> Free enterprise if just propaganda from the American Delusion.  It never existed.


 It absolutely existed in 1776


----------



## initforme (Oct 30, 2016)

Dumb american parents produce dumb kids.   That's the truth.


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 30, 2016)

initforme said:


> Dumb american parents produce dumb kids.   That's the truth.



Where are you from?


----------



## psikeyhackr (Oct 30, 2016)

P@triot said:


> psikeyhackr said:
> 
> 
> > Free enterprise if just propaganda from the American Delusion.  It never existed.
> ...



Stealing land from Indians and slavery were Free Enterprise.

psik


----------



## Nia88 (Oct 31, 2016)

Parents produce dumb kids. There are children in India who literally go to school in a straw hut and they perform better in math and sciences than most American kids. 

Parents in Asian countries put heavy emphasis on education whereas unfortunately many American parents don't. 

Private school students tend to do better because make sure their kids are studying and doing what they're supposed to do. 

Public schools have basically become babysitting centers.


----------



## WheelieAddict (Oct 31, 2016)

You can get quality education for your tax dollars if you aren't in some backwards dumbass state like Texas:

Rival Texas high schools spend more than $60 million on new stadiums | All Ablog Austin


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 31, 2016)

WheelieAddict said:


> You can get quality education for your tax dollars if you aren't in some backwards dumbass state like Texas:
> 
> Rival Texas high schools spend more than $60 million on new stadiums | All Ablog Austin




Do not disparage one of - any of - the great states of our Union.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Oct 31, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> I went to public school.  On what political topics  does the OP think he's smarter than I am?
> 
> We'll have some one on one debates.


political topics really?

No one has to be intelligent to spew partisan bullshit


----------



## Skull Pilot (Oct 31, 2016)

The problem most people have is they think that someone else is responsible for educating them and take no initiative to educate themselves


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 31, 2016)

NYcarbineer said:


> I went to public school.  On what political topics  does the OP think he's smarter than I am?
> 
> We'll have some one on one debates.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Nov 2, 2016)

Soggy in NOLA said:


> Timmy said:
> 
> 
> > Says "youngsters" .  Doesn't say youngsters from public schools .
> ...



That is why we have Google.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Nov 2, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> > I think all of you that are grumbling should get active on your local school boards, donate to the PTA fund raisers for $ for updated text books, and if you can, volunteer to tutor in the after school program.
> ...



So, after my sometimes 14 hour days, I have to raise money for my own textbooks?  Not my job man!  

BTW, what is a textbook?  I haven't seen a new one in at least 6 years.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Nov 2, 2016)

gipper said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
> ...



I am in a school every day and i don't see any of that.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Nov 2, 2016)

gipper said:


> brummelben said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...



No one requires Common Core anymore.  Maybe you could stay up to speed on education topics.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Nov 2, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> brummelben said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...



That sentence looks like it was written by a middle school student. Would you care to try again, in English this time?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Nov 2, 2016)

Rustic said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
> ...



*You just outed yourself as a know-nothing blowhard.*


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Nov 2, 2016)

brummelben said:


> Dr.Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...



Congress and Obama did away with the requirement for Common Core already.  Look up ESSA Act.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Nov 2, 2016)

gipper said:


> brummelben said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...



So that is the teacher's fault?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Nov 2, 2016)

gipper said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > brummelben said:
> ...



Their parents made them learn English.  Today, the parents make the schools hire bilingual teachers.


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## Unkotare (Nov 3, 2016)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> ...
> 
> Their parents made them learn English.  Today, the parents make the schools hire bilingual teachers.




Misleading over-generalizations.


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## Iceweasel (Nov 3, 2016)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > OldLady said:
> ...


I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you stoned?


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## Iceweasel (Nov 3, 2016)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > brummelben said:
> ...


It's in plain English, retard. No one can understand it for you.


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## Iceweasel (Nov 3, 2016)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > brummelben said:
> ...


When did he say that? Come back when you come down from your high.


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## gipper (Nov 3, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...


I don't think he knows WTF he is posting about.


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## Rustic (Nov 3, 2016)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...


Na, I have several friends that are teachers they own/run businesses they could not with another type of job.


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## Dr.Traveler (Nov 3, 2016)

Rustic said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Rustic said:
> ...


I know teachers that have other Summer jobs because the contract for educators is literally 9 months in many states and higher ed instutions.  Meaning you literally do not collect a payched in the June, July, August period.  Even with good budgeting it hurts to live out of savings for 2-3 months a year.

I don't know a single teacher that has, or could even manage to have, a business on the side during the school year.  Most teachers I know are putting in 60+ hour weeks when you count the outside of the classroom work, i.e. writing lesson plans, grading, etc.  A lot of folks outside teaching don't know this, but teachers in public schools have to turn in lesson plans ahead of time (usually about a week ahead) and they get outed pretty fast if they're resting on their laurels.


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## Rustic (Nov 3, 2016)

Dr.Traveler said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


 I guess it all depends on the person, some of the best off people I know are teachers. I know a few that retired before the age of 50. And now are still running their business they started while being a teacher Making bank. They could not have run those businesses with most other types of jobs.


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## jillian (Nov 3, 2016)

Timmy said:


> Says "youngsters" .  Doesn't say youngsters from public schools .
> 
> Who has geography anymore?


 he also didn't provide a link...  but why would he?

should schools teach geography. yes.... but in his world they'd be allowed to teach creationism as "science"...talk about dumbing down kids.

the reality is ALL most teachers come from the bottom 10% of their classes. why? because this important job doesn't pay the way it should.

the o/p would no doubt call teachers greedy if they want a decent salary or benefits.

so methinks it protests too much.


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## MindWars (Nov 3, 2016)

gipper said:


> So true...and may explain why criminals like Hillary could be POTUS.  The dumbing down of America has benefited the socialist party tremendously, but they still want more dummies imported from third world...and the R party is too feeble minded to stop it.
> 
> No wonder so many are socialists, says the Great Walter Williams.
> 
> ...





Welcome to American Deception. This website is committed to exposing the deceptively hidden truths that have brought America, and the world as a whole, to the present situation, where individual freedom is becoming a thing of the past. Little of what has occurred throughout history has been by mistake, yet there is a wide belief amongst the majority of people that "bad things just happen for no reason at all". Seen as more of a faulty and clumsy political dance, it is easier for many people to believe that most unfortunate happenings are a result of misjudgments or error.
American Deception
------------------------------------------------------------


 

the deliberate dumbing down of america

---------------------------------------------------------


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## MindWars (Nov 3, 2016)

esthermoon said:


> I don't believe public schools are so bad in US. They work pretty well I guess. I know many Americans have studied there and I'm sure not all of them are dumb
> Here we have public schools and not public schools too.
> Our public education system is pretty good maybe one of the best in Asia


The indoctrinate well, right into a Communist way of thinking and they and the parents don't even know it.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Nov 3, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
> ...



That sentence is nonsense.  "and many districts to an area"? What does that mean? 

Spread the wealth among themselves?   You do realize that these salaries are set by ELECTED school boards in most cases.

There is one retard in this discussion and it is not me. Your use of name calling points directly to the problem.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Nov 3, 2016)

Rustic said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Rustic said:
> ...



They are a microscopic example in a vast sea of teachers for that to be true.  Your experience is not the norm, if what you say is true, but unless they are PE teachers, there is no one with the time to do anything other than barely survive.

We get off in June.  Hvae mandatory professional development training in July and go back to school the first week in August.  Where is this "summer off" that you speak of?

You also probably do not realize that is UNPAID time off.


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## Iceweasel (Nov 3, 2016)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


Yep, they set up many districts in the areas, it's a big problem here. Instead of consolidating they have administrators for each and the whole works.Very bloated. I've never been able to vote on salaries or even school board members. Yes, you're a retard, I call em the way I see them. If you don't already believe it you can't understand it.


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## Iceweasel (Nov 3, 2016)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


Out here they get over two months off, a friend of mine travels every year. Maybe the world is bigger than you think? Average salary here is 52k. And that's not for a full years work. Not bad money at all, especially with the bennies.

Your sniveling is pathetic. No wonder the kids are screwed up.


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## Rustic (Nov 3, 2016)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


Here their summer starts mid may till the last week of August... 
 Most teachers here have their own businesses on the side, seasonal businesses. Which most times they make more there than they do their teaching job. The only reason they can have those businesses is because of the teaching job. And with the teaching job they get every single holiday off in the winter A good benefits.
 So yes most teachers that I know around here are very well-off. Granted that's antidotal to here, but most places have tourism seasons so they can do the same most likely.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Nov 3, 2016)

Rustic said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Rustic said:
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So, you admit what happens in your area is not typical to the rest of this nation.

I would never use the non-word "antidotal" in a statement lest you look even more the retard.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Nov 3, 2016)

Rustic said:


> Dr.Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > Rustic said:
> ...



Once again, you are comparing apples to oranges.  These people you are talking about retired, which means they taught a long time ago and probably far, far away.

I barely make $50,000 a year with 20 years experience, and a good hunk of that goes into my retirement fund.  My paycheck after all of the wonderful deductions is about $1500.00 twice a month. Well off?  Not hardly.

I still make less than I did my last year in the Navy over 20 years ago, and I have a Master's degree so I get paid more.

I want to know what kind of business you can run while working 60+ hours a week for 10 months out of the year..


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Nov 3, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Rustic said:
> ...



I have worked 20 years and I STILL don't make $52k.  Get a dose of reality, will you?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Nov 3, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
> ...



No "they don't set up districts".  Those districts are created by your elected representatives.  You have never voted for a school board member?

You really are a special snowflake, aren't you.

Why don't you get off your ass and go out and see what the real world looks like, because apparently you live in a fantasy world?


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## Rustic (Nov 3, 2016)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > Dr.Traveler said:
> ...


Most teachers do not work 60 hours a week, not even close and certainly do not work 10 months out of the year… fact
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Nov 3, 2016)

Rustic said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Rustic said:
> ...



If you are a core content subject area teacher you might work even more than 60 hours a week.  I spend a minimum of three hours each night writing lesson plans.  I grade papers for about 6 hours each Sunday afternoon and evening .

The problem is that what you believe is based on zero evidence, while I work there every day.  You don't.

In fact, this year, we will have to work on-line during snow days!


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## Rustic (Nov 3, 2016)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


I'm not saying that you don't, I'm saying the vast majority of teachers don't work 60 hours a week and certainly not 10 months out of the year… Fact


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## Unkotare (Nov 4, 2016)

Rustic said:


> ... I'm saying the vast majority of teachers don't work 60 hours a week .....




Based on what?


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## Iceweasel (Nov 4, 2016)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


Hey genius, I looked it up before posting.

Washington Teacher Salary | Teaching Salaries in WA | Teacher Portal
How do salaries grow in Washington?

Starting Salary: $36,335
Average Salary: $52,234

That's 5k a month. If that isn't enough money to live on something is wrong. If your pay is lower then the cost of living is likely lower. Many people would love to have your salary, retirement plan and bennies. Stop trying to rape the capitalists.


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## Rustic (Nov 4, 2016)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


Michael Robertson: The Myth of the Underpaid Teacher


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## ABikerSailor (Nov 4, 2016)

You know, for someone in the military to make what a teacher does for starting, they would have to be E-5 or E-6.

If they were to be in the average of 52,000 a year, they would have to be a Senior Chief (E-8) or higher.


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## Unkotare (Nov 4, 2016)

ABikerSailor said:


> You know, for someone in the military to make what a teacher does for starting, they would have to be E-5 or E-6.
> 
> If they were to be in the average of 52,000 a year, they would have to be a Senior Chief (E-8) or higher.



Military personnel should be paid much more than they are.


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## ABikerSailor (Nov 4, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > You know, for someone in the military to make what a teacher does for starting, they would have to be E-5 or E-6.
> ...



Agreed.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Nov 4, 2016)

Rustic said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Rustic said:
> ...



What is the source of this fact?  I smells like fecal matter because you pulled it out of your ass.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Nov 4, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
> ...



Hey genius, that is higher than the national average and your retirement comes out of that paycheck!  Our retirement plan in Florida was so great it was based on a lousy salary and you could retire at 50% of that lousy salary after 30 years in the system.  I get about $64.00 a month when I turn 63 after working there ten years.  That's the mother lode for sure!!


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Nov 4, 2016)

Rustic said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Rustic said:
> ...




I read your linked article for about 10 seconds before happening on this little turd in the punch bowl.

"Every district employee gets a guaranteed pension which when they retire will pay them 80-90% of their highest salary every year until they die."

That is simple drug-induced fantasy.  Go play with your blocks  and leave the discussion to those not under the influence of mind-altering substances.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Nov 4, 2016)

ABikerSailor said:


> You know, for someone in the military to make what a teacher does for starting, they would have to be E-5 or E-6.
> 
> If they were to be in the average of 52,000 a year, they would have to be a Senior Chief (E-8) or higher.



How many E-5s or E-6s do you know with 6 years of college?

My daughter is an O-1 with a BS degree and brings home  a couple of hundred less in her paycheck than I do with 20 years experience and a Master's..


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## Rustic (Nov 4, 2016)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


I guess a verys from state to state, most teachers I know in South Dakota, Wyoming, Colorado start at 7:45 done by 3:30...
 And most teachers I know retire by the time they're in their mid-50s… And they basically get three months Straight off a year with every holiday possible off,  and if that holiday lands on the weekend they get either the Friday before or the Monday off after a paid holiday. Three weeks sick pay a year, and you can build that up and retire early...


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Nov 4, 2016)

Rustic said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Rustic said:
> ...



Once again, you are talking out of your ass.

I get paid holidays for Labor Day, Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Day, New Year's Day, MLK's Birthday, President's Day (and it gets swallowed by snow days almost every year) and that's it!  So what is this fantasy you are promoting?

My school starts at 7:45, but I have to be there an hour early to make sure everything required to be posted is done, computers are booted up and all of my web pages are up, copies made, and lesson plans printed out. In the afternoon, students are released at 2:45 and we are free to leave at 3:15, unless we have tutoring for an hour (3 days per week), faculty meetings, required professional development training, parent-teacher conferences, and any other numerous reasons.  I usually stay until at least 4:00 almost every day.   I write lesson plans at night for a minimum of two hours plus grade papers 2-3 nights a week for anywhere from 2-5 hours.

We work from late July to early June every year.  All other time off is unpaid.

I am 56 years old and I can retire at the age of 67. Sick time can be sold at retirement for pennies on the dollar.  Most states did away with that years ago,  I'll bet yours did too.

Your information is either dated, biased, or simply not true.


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## Unkotare (Nov 4, 2016)

Rustic said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Rustic said:
> ...


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## Unkotare (Nov 4, 2016)

This kind of topic always seems to bring out the vitriol.


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## initforme (Nov 4, 2016)

Admiral, if teaching is so easy and great then those whiners crying about it would be a teacher.  But they know reality says they would have to give up their earning potential to become one.  Youy would never hear them complain about a CEO that works 20 hours per week making 5 million a year.  Its easier to whine and cry like a little girl about a teacher who makes 40 grand per year.  It isn't teachers raping capiutaliusts, its capitalists raping the middle class.  What a complete farce.  What you crybabies want is someone to teach your filthy spaewn for free.  Admit it.


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## Unkotare (Nov 4, 2016)

initforme said:


> Admiral, if teaching is so easy and great then those whiners crying about it would be a teacher.  But they know reality says they would have to give up their earning potential to become one.  Youy would never hear them complain about a CEO that works 20 hours per week making 5 million a year.  Its easier to whine and cry like a little girl about a teacher who makes 40 grand per year.  It isn't teachers raping capiutaliusts, its capitalists raping the middle class.  What a complete farce.  What you crybabies want is someone to teach your filthy spaewn for free.  Admit it.






Guess you missed out on that.


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## initforme (Nov 4, 2016)

Missed out on what?  I am defending teachers.  I could never do that job and many good ones get a bad rap.  50 grand is PEANUTS today.  Hard to survive on that comfortably.  My daughter is one.  She makes about 55 grand after 25 years.  That makes her rich.


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## Rustic (Nov 4, 2016)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


You're teaching in the wrong state then, none of what you say happens in the states that I listed. Fact


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## initforme (Nov 4, 2016)

Rustic here is your chance to become rich.....become a teacher.   And remember don't be jealous of success.


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## Unkotare (Nov 5, 2016)

initforme said:


> Missed out on what?  I am defending teachers.  I could never do that job and many good ones get a bad rap.  50 grand is PEANUTS today.  Hard to survive on that comfortably.  My daughter is one.  She makes about 55 grand after 25 years.  That makes her rich.




The kids in school are NOT "filthy spaewn," [sic] they are individuals who deserve an opportunity like everyone else.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Nov 5, 2016)

Rustic said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Rustic said:
> ...



OK.  Post links to the pay scales for every district in your state and those you mentioned.

I would never teach in a liberal infested, pothead state like Washington.  People up there don't know the difference in "varies" and "verys", which isn't even a word.


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## Unkotare (Nov 7, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> initforme said:
> 
> 
> > Missed out on what?  I am defending teachers.  I could never do that job and many good ones get a bad rap.  50 grand is PEANUTS today.  Hard to survive on that comfortably.  My daughter is one.  She makes about 55 grand after 25 years.  That makes her rich.
> ...


.


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## psikeyhackr (Nov 15, 2016)

Results are in:



> One central message that emerges from this report is that, despite having the highest levels of educational attainment of any previous American generation, these young adults on average demonstrate relatively weak skills in literacy, numeracy, and problem solving in technology-rich environments compared to their international peers. These findings hold true when looking at millennials overall, our best performing and most educated, those who are native born, and those from the highest socioeconomic background. Equally troubling is that these findings represent a decrease in literacy and numeracy skills for U.S. adults when compared with results from previous adult surveys.
> 
> This report explores the growing importance of education and skills in the context of the larger technological, economic, social, and political forces that have been reshaping America for the past 40 years.


America's Skills Challenge: Millennials and the Future - Overview

What I find interesting about articles like this is that they never use a word like "curiosity".  It is as though children are only supposed to learn things for their usefulness to society and not supposed to actually be curious in their own right.

psik


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Nov 17, 2016)

psikeyhackr said:


> Results are in:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The vast majority of kids these days are NOT curious about anything as long as they have a roof over their head, a cell phone, and there every wish granted by their parents.


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## Unkotare (Nov 17, 2016)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> psikeyhackr said:
> 
> 
> > Results are in:
> ...







Bullshit.


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## ABikerSailor (Nov 18, 2016)

Quick question...................

How many of the posters on this thread have gone to public schools?  (I have.)

How many have gone to private schools?

And...............if you've gone to public schools, why do you think those who attended private ones are smarter than those who have gone to public ones, and for those who attended private schools, same question.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Nov 19, 2016)

This educational system is unnatural to the way children behave..  They should be formed into teams and be motivated through the reward/ punishment framework.  Frequently quizzed during the schoolday, the winning team should get Friday off and the lowest-scoring team should have to come in on Saturday.  Top individual scorers from four grades older should be paid to teach the Saturday classes.  Those who run our present system are motivated by something other than wanting the children to learn.


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## Unkotare (Nov 19, 2016)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> This educational system is unnatural to the way children behave..  They should be formed into teams and be motivated through the reward/ punishment framework.  Frequently quizzed during the schoolday, the winning team should get Friday off and the lowest-scoring team should have to come in on Saturday.  Top individual scorers from four grades older should be paid to teach the Saturday classes.  Those who run our present system are motivated by something other than wanting the children to learn.




And your confidence regarding the effectiveness of the pedagogical product produced from your posterior stems from what exactly? What experience, education, or expertise informs such wisdom?


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## psikeyhackr (Nov 19, 2016)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> This educational system is unnatural to the way children behave..  They should be formed into teams and be motivated through the reward/ punishment framework.  Frequently quizzed during the schoolday, the winning team should get Friday off and the lowest-scoring team should have to come in on Saturday.  Top individual scorers from four grades older should be paid to teach the Saturday classes.  Those who run our present system are motivated by something other than wanting the children to learn.



Learn What?

My grade school was run by goofy nuns that gave out stars and posted all of the report cards on a corkboard.

Johnny, you got a gold star now isn't that WoDeRfUl?

Yes, I'm really excited about that (You Stupid Bitch!)

The peculiar thing was I wanted to learn but they don't know what to teach.  Then I stumbled across science fiction and learned stuff that was not being taught.  Which is more important?

Antidisestablishmentarianism

Fission

Fusion

My class had to memorize how to spell the first one.  The next two were never mentioned.  But they made us hide under desks in case the Russians dropped bombs on us.  That was fun!  Life on this planet depends on fusion.

So who decides what we are supposed to compete at learning?

psik


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## Unkotare (Nov 19, 2016)

Broken record...


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## Agit8r (Nov 19, 2016)

The title should read: "Public schools accept poorly prepared students." Which they should.

"there should not be a district of one Mile square without a school in it, not founded by a Charitable individual but maintained at the expence of the People themselv they must be taught to reverence themselvs instead of adoreing their servants their Generals Admirals Bishops and Statesmen"
-- John Adams; from letter to John Jebb (Sept. 10, 1785)


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## ScienceRocks (Nov 20, 2016)

This thread is weird as the dumbest group of people in the country believe that a social safetynet, investment or much of anything makes one dumb. Yet, all the information I've seen about this group of idiots accusing people of that show that they're in fact the dumb ones. 

Weird.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Nov 20, 2016)

psikeyhackr said:


> The Sage of Main Street said:
> 
> 
> > This educational system is unnatural to the way children behave..  They should be formed into teams and be motivated through the reward/ punishment framework.  Frequently quizzed during the schoolday, the winning team should get Friday off and the lowest-scoring team should have to come in on Saturday.  Top individual scorers from four grades older should be paid to teach the Saturday classes.  Those who run our present system are motivated by something other than wanting the children to learn.
> ...


*Proud Prometheans*

You miss the point.  Getting gold stars does not motivate; it treats children like babies.  Getting Friday off, or avoiding having to come in on Saturday, does motivate.  The greatest benefit will be that a smart kid will study like we need him to if we are going to make any economic progress.  Instead of being treated like a freaky nerd off in his own little world, he will be like the kid who hits the game-winning home run.


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## psikeyhackr (Nov 20, 2016)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> *Proud Prometheans*
> 
> You miss the point.  Getting gold stars does not motivate; it treats children like babies.  Getting Friday off, or avoiding having to come in on Saturday, does motivate.  The greatest benefit will be that a smart kid will study like we need him to if we are going to make any economic progress.  Instead of being treated like a freaky nerd off in his own little world, he will be like the kid who hits the game-winning home run.



LOL

What is economic progress in a society that does not admit that Planned Obsolescence is happening?  You expect kids to be dummies that you can manipulate.  Been reading too much B. F. Skinner.

psik


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## Unkotare (Nov 20, 2016)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> ......
> 
> You miss the point.  Getting gold stars does not motivate; it treats children like babies.  Getting Friday off, or avoiding having to come in on Saturday, does motivate. ......




You're wrong.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Nov 21, 2016)

psikeyhackr said:


> The Sage of Main Street said:
> 
> 
> > *Proud Prometheans*
> ...


*"Fatcats Love Mice" Is the Educational Philosophy Being Forced on Us*


They are being manipulated under the present failed system.  You worship the status quo too much, as if were some free and natural outcome and that any attempt to change it is arrogance.


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## P@triot (Nov 22, 2016)

It's not just public schools. It's universities as well...

What are we to make of higher education when students and institutions respond to the recent presidential election with cry-ins, canceled exams, therapy dogs, Play-Doh, coloring books, group screams, Legos, bubble-blowing, and trauma counseling?

For some time, higher learning has been a political matter, one where the primary aim is to usher students into the club of elite (supposedly enlightened) progressive opinion. Gone is the formation of keen, analytical habits of mind and rational argument.

The result is not just a poorly educated student body, but an infantilized one. Mature discourse is out, and fragility, dependence, and bad temper is in.

Rather than cultivate habits of sustained and sober thought, we encourage manufactured outrage and self-indulgent victimhood. Anyone who has spent time with 2-year-olds recognizes the behavior. In our case, however, we appear to cultivate it on our campuses.

And volume is coercive. When 2-year-olds throw tantrums, they attempt to force matters and get their own way. A set of people taught not to reason but to huddle in safe spaces and throw the occasional tantrum is a people taught to impose their will. They have not been denied a voice; rather, they are intent upon being the only voice.

How Infantilized Campuses Threaten Our Nation's Future


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## ScienceRocks (Nov 23, 2016)




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## Abishai100 (Nov 24, 2016)

*The Billboard Brain*


It's all about investments in the quality (training, etc.) of teachers and the psychological environment offered by the classrooms themselves.

You could have a promising school in New Guinea (teaching pygmies mathematics) and an equally unimpossible inner-city public school classroom in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (USA) and an equally populism-imaginative classroom at a respected private school such as Choate.


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## Unkotare (Nov 24, 2016)

Abishai100 said:


> *The Billboard Brain*
> 
> 
> It's all about investments in the quality (training, etc.) of teachers and the psychological environment offered by the classrooms themselves.
> ...





Somebody's basting their turkey with LSD.


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## initforme (Nov 24, 2016)

Too bad the likes of !ow IQ folk like patriot don't give up a decent salary and teach.  They like to cry like little babies but their inabilities prevent them from teaching.


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## LuckyDuck (Nov 25, 2016)

gipper said:


> So true...and may explain why criminals like Hillary could be POTUS.  The dumbing down of America has benefited the socialist party tremendously, but they still want more dummies imported from third world...and the R party is too feeble minded to stop it.
> 
> No wonder so many are socialists, says the Great Walter Williams.
> 
> ...


In your second paragraph, you listed Saudi Arabia, the Middle East, Iran and Israel and then added that 44 percent couldn't locate even one of those "four" countries.  Just FYI, the Middle East isn't a country in and of itself, it is an area that is comprised of multiple countries, of which, Iran and Israel are a part of, thus the correct figure was three.
Moving on.  Our educational system is now considered to be comparable to that of third-world nations, thus making your overall statement, correct.
It began with the policy of "socially-promoting" students, rather than having them fail a class.  Once that policy began, we started to see students graduating from high schools, who could barely read and write.  Add to this, inner city black students would pressure those black students trying to achieve, as trying to be white, running the chances of the good black students education, all because of peer pressure.  
Another problem was the attack on science courses by the religious organizations and families that objected to science and its teachings of evolution.  Science became less influential in the high school academia.
In colleges and universities the instructors hired to teach what students that did advance beyond high school, were far-left Marxist leaning individuals whose goals were not to improve young minds, but rather to instill their own personal social philosophies into the students.
Add in the H-1B visa and you have foreign students coming in to learn from the more prominent universities, only to then take what they've learned back to their own nations and as a result, you have other nations advancing technologically, while we, with limited numbers of American students in those classes, slowly decline.


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## P@triot (Nov 28, 2016)

More proof that gipper is 100% correct...


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## gipper (Nov 28, 2016)

P@triot said:


> More proof that gipper is 100% correct...
> 
> View attachment 100220


Those who fail to learn from history, repeat it.  Statist, totalitarian, and leftist elites love dummies.


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## ScienceRocks (Nov 28, 2016)

The person attacking a hundred million people is in fact a dumb person. Period.


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## gipper (Nov 28, 2016)

Matthew said:


> The person attacking a hundred million people is in fact a dumb person. Period.


Can you name this person?


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## P@triot (Nov 28, 2016)

gipper said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > The person attacking a hundred million people is in fact a dumb person. Period.
> ...


Matthew is scared stupid that his government gravy-train is about to run dry and that he will have to get a real job in the private sector where he will actually have to produce results (gasp!).

That's why he _freaks_ out any time someone advocates for constitutional government and refers to them as "terrorists". You know...because insisting we follow the law is something a "terrorist" would do.


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