# The Grim Reaper aka  McConnell will cause people to stop working if they receive a one time check of 1400 bucks



## Penelope

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell on Wednesday explained that he's opposing the $1,400 stimulus checks in President Joe Biden's $1.9 trillion economic relief bill due to concerns that the payments could stop Americans from working.

McConnell Opposes $1,400 Stimulus Checks Because He Thinks People Could Stop Working (newsweek.com)
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He is out of touch with reality and should retire!!


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## pknopp

Oddly this doesn't apply to the billions he gave Wall Street.


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## Bush92

Penelope said:


> Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell on Wednesday explained that he's opposing the $1,400 stimulus checks in President Joe Biden's $1.9 trillion economic relief bill due to concerns that the payments could stop Americans from working.
> 
> McConnell Opposes $1,400 Stimulus Checks Because He Thinks People Could Stop Working (newsweek.com)
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 
> He is out of touch with reality and should retire!!


We don't need a stimulus check. Open up the economy and stop all China Virus restrictions and protocols.


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## iamwhatiseem

Less than 9% of this bill is going towards anything to do with Covid.
91% of it is pork/ giveaways/paybacks etc.
This bill is literally 10 years worth of normal pork and pocket packing.


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## pknopp

iamwhatiseem said:


> Less than 9% of this bill is going towards anything to do with Covid.
> 91% of it is pork/ giveaways/paybacks etc.
> This bill is literally 10 years worth of normal pork and pocket packing.



 As were the two earlier covid bills.


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## iamwhatiseem

pknopp said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Less than 9% of this bill is going towards anything to do with Covid.
> 91% of it is pork/ giveaways/paybacks etc.
> This bill is literally 10 years worth of normal pork and pocket packing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As were the two earlier covid bills.
Click to expand...

And?


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## pknopp

iamwhatiseem said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Less than 9% of this bill is going towards anything to do with Covid.
> 91% of it is pork/ giveaways/paybacks etc.
> This bill is literally 10 years worth of normal pork and pocket packing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As were the two earlier covid bills.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And?
Click to expand...


 Just noting. If you have a problem with this bill and said nothing about the other two, this is how it works.


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## iamwhatiseem

pknopp said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
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> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Less than 9% of this bill is going towards anything to do with Covid.
> 91% of it is pork/ giveaways/paybacks etc.
> This bill is literally 10 years worth of normal pork and pocket packing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As were the two earlier covid bills.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just noting. If you have a problem with this bill and said nothing about the other two, this is how it works.
Click to expand...

  Pay attention. And don't jump to conclusions that make you look foolish.
Go ahead, search back in my post about Trumps Covid stimulus. I had PLENTY of problems with it.
The only thing I likes, was unlike Obama's stimulus, at least money was being given to everyday people... and small businesses.
Obama 100% ignored small businesses and everyday people who lost everything.
 Having said that.... I was absolutely against giving people $$ for nothing who don't need it, did nothing to deserve it.
I said it was vote buying.

*   Believe it or not fella, there are a few of us who are fair minded. You should join us. *


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## pknopp

iamwhatiseem said:


> pknopp said:
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> iamwhatiseem said:
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> 
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> pknopp said:
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> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Less than 9% of this bill is going towards anything to do with Covid.
> 91% of it is pork/ giveaways/paybacks etc.
> This bill is literally 10 years worth of normal pork and pocket packing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As were the two earlier covid bills.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just noting. If you have a problem with this bill and said nothing about the other two, this is how it works.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pay attention. And don't jump to conclusions that make you look foolish.
> Go ahead, search back in my post about Trumps Covid stimulus. I had PLENTY of problems with it.
> The only thing I likes, was unlike Obama's stimulus, at least money was being given to everyday people... and small businesses.
> Obama 100% ignored small businesses and everyday people who lost everything.
> Having said that.... I was absolutely against giving people $$ for nothing who don't need it, did nothing to deserve it.
> I said it was vote buying.
> 
> *   Believe it or not fella, there are a few of us who are fair minded. You should join us. *
Click to expand...


 You questioned my statement. I made a general statement. If it doesn't fit you, it doesn't.


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## iamwhatiseem

pknopp said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
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> pknopp said:
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> iamwhatiseem said:
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> pknopp said:
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> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Less than 9% of this bill is going towards anything to do with Covid.
> 91% of it is pork/ giveaways/paybacks etc.
> This bill is literally 10 years worth of normal pork and pocket packing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As were the two earlier covid bills.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just noting. If you have a problem with this bill and said nothing about the other two, this is how it works.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pay attention. And don't jump to conclusions that make you look foolish.
> Go ahead, search back in my post about Trumps Covid stimulus. I had PLENTY of problems with it.
> The only thing I likes, was unlike Obama's stimulus, at least money was being given to everyday people... and small businesses.
> Obama 100% ignored small businesses and everyday people who lost everything.
> Having said that.... I was absolutely against giving people $$ for nothing who don't need it, did nothing to deserve it.
> I said it was vote buying.
> 
> *   Believe it or not fella, there are a few of us who are fair minded. You should join us. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You questioned my statement. I made a general statement. If it doesn't fit you, it doesn't.
Click to expand...

You are simplifying it.
You made accusations on me because you think I am like you - biased and only find fault on the other side.
You were wrong.


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## Moonglow

Penelope said:


> Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell on Wednesday explained that he's opposing the $1,400 stimulus checks in President Joe Biden's $1.9 trillion economic relief bill due to concerns that the payments could stop Americans from working.
> 
> McConnell Opposes $1,400 Stimulus Checks Because He Thinks People Could Stop Working (newsweek.com)
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 
> He is out of touch with reality and should retire!!


He started in the senate worth less than 100k now he is worth around 30 million did his bribes and kickbacks stop him from working?


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## AFrench2

"I'm worried that crumbs would make the rabble stop working..."

"What's that? Oh, the tax cuts for the rich we passed in 2017? Well, those are our masters and they worked hard for that."


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## C_Clayton_Jones

Penelope said:


> Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell on Wednesday explained that he's opposing the $1,400 stimulus checks in President Joe Biden's $1.9 trillion economic relief bill due to concerns that the payments could stop Americans from working.
> 
> McConnell Opposes $1,400 Stimulus Checks Because He Thinks People Could Stop Working (newsweek.com)
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 
> He is out of touch with reality and should retire!!


Republicans clearly have nothing but contempt for working Americans.


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## Jets

McConnell is likely complaining because there not enough pork for his home state...


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## Slade3200

Bush92 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell on Wednesday explained that he's opposing the $1,400 stimulus checks in President Joe Biden's $1.9 trillion economic relief bill due to concerns that the payments could stop Americans from working.
> 
> McConnell Opposes $1,400 Stimulus Checks Because He Thinks People Could Stop Working (newsweek.com)
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 
> He is out of touch with reality and should retire!!
> 
> 
> 
> We don't need a stimulus check. Open up the economy and stop all China Virus restrictions and protocols.
Click to expand...

We are getting there... just need to get the dumbasses out there who are still spreading this thing to either chill for a bit or get a shot and we will be all good. Could have been there much sooner if there wasn’t so much stupidity flowing through this country


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## Funwithfacts

Penelope said:


> Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell on Wednesday explained that he's opposing the $1,400 stimulus checks in President Joe Biden's $1.9 trillion economic relief bill due to concerns that the payments could stop Americans from working.
> 
> McConnell Opposes $1,400 Stimulus Checks Because He Thinks People Could Stop Working (newsweek.com)
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 
> He is out of touch with reality and should retire!!


Folks aren’t working in my city it’s impossible for young girls to get a taxi, or Uber. Because they are all collecting, I work at a late night business/ and we have many stuck with no way to get home.


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## Slade3200

iamwhatiseem said:


> Less than 9% of this bill is going towards anything to do with Covid.
> 91% of it is pork/ giveaways/paybacks etc.
> This bill is literally 10 years worth of normal pork and pocket packing.


That a completely debunked lie. You should not parrot talking points. Makes you sound stupid


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## Funwithfacts

All a taxi driver has to do is say they don’t feel safe, they don’t have to work, they make more money collecting. This effects the service industry where the poor work. I see it first hand. Many young girls are at risk of getting kidnapped after having dinner or going to a friends


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## Funwithfacts

Slade3200 said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Less than 9% of this bill is going towards anything to do with Covid.
> 91% of it is pork/ giveaways/paybacks etc.
> This bill is literally 10 years worth of normal pork and pocket packing.
> 
> 
> 
> That a completely debunked lie. You should not parrot talking points. Makes you sound stupid
Click to expand...

It’s actually what the bill says


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## bodecea

Penelope said:


> Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell on Wednesday explained that he's opposing the $1,400 stimulus checks in President Joe Biden's $1.9 trillion economic relief bill due to concerns that the payments could stop Americans from working.
> 
> McConnell Opposes $1,400 Stimulus Checks Because He Thinks People Could Stop Working (newsweek.com)
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 
> He is out of touch with reality and should retire!!


How much would it take to get him to stop working?


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## Crepitus

iamwhatiseem said:


> Less than 9% of this bill is going towards anything to do with Covid.
> 91% of it is pork/ giveaways/paybacks etc.
> This bill is literally 10 years worth of normal pork and pocket packing.


Fake news.


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## Slade3200

Funwithfacts said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Less than 9% of this bill is going towards anything to do with Covid.
> 91% of it is pork/ giveaways/paybacks etc.
> This bill is literally 10 years worth of normal pork and pocket packing.
> 
> 
> 
> That a completely debunked lie. You should not parrot talking points. Makes you sound stupid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s actually what the bill says
Click to expand...

I’ve gone through this fact check and the 9%  claim is complete BS. Take the $1400 direct checks to citizens which is obvious Covid stimulus... What % does that comprise of the Bill?


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## Funwithfacts

Slade3200 said:


> Funwithfacts said:
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> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Less than 9% of this bill is going towards anything to do with Covid.
> 91% of it is pork/ giveaways/paybacks etc.
> This bill is literally 10 years worth of normal pork and pocket packing.
> 
> 
> 
> That a completely debunked lie. You should not parrot talking points. Makes you sound stupid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s actually what the bill says
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ve gone through this fact check and the 9%  claim is complete BS. Take the $1400 direct checks to citizens which is obvious Covid stimulus... What % does that comprise of the Bill?
Click to expand...

After the math only 9% is going to Americans the rest is to democrats buying votes


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## Slade3200

Funwithfacts said:


> Slade3200 said:
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> Funwithfacts said:
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> Slade3200 said:
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> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Less than 9% of this bill is going towards anything to do with Covid.
> 91% of it is pork/ giveaways/paybacks etc.
> This bill is literally 10 years worth of normal pork and pocket packing.
> 
> 
> 
> That a completely debunked lie. You should not parrot talking points. Makes you sound stupid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s actually what the bill says
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ve gone through this fact check and the 9%  claim is complete BS. Take the $1400 direct checks to citizens which is obvious Covid stimulus... What % does that comprise of the Bill?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> After the math only 9% is going to Americans the rest is to democrats buying votes
Click to expand...

You didn’t actually do the math did you? If you did you would see that you are completely full of shit. Also, don’t try and change the statement... the claim was on 9% was for COVID and the rest was pork. Don’t be saying “going to Americans” now. Do you consider funding vaccine roll out and administration COVID relief? What about PPE for hospitals?


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## Funwithfacts

Slade3200 said:


> Funwithfacts said:
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> Funwithfacts said:
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> Slade3200 said:
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> iamwhatiseem said:
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> 
> 
> Less than 9% of this bill is going towards anything to do with Covid.
> 91% of it is pork/ giveaways/paybacks etc.
> This bill is literally 10 years worth of normal pork and pocket packing.
> 
> 
> 
> That a completely debunked lie. You should not parrot talking points. Makes you sound stupid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s actually what the bill says
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ve gone through this fact check and the 9%  claim is complete BS. Take the $1400 direct checks to citizens which is obvious Covid stimulus... What % does that comprise of the Bill?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> After the math only 9% is going to Americans the rest is to democrats buying votes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn’t actually do the math did you? If you did you would see that you are completely full of shit. Also, don’t try and change the statement... the claim was on 9% was for COVID and the rest was pork. Don’t be saying “going to Americans” now. Do you consider funding vaccine roll out and administration COVID relief? What about PPE for hospitals?
Click to expand...

I just gave you my math where is yours


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## Slade3200

Funwithfacts said:


> Slade3200 said:
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> Slade3200 said:
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> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
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> Less than 9% of this bill is going towards anything to do with Covid.
> 91% of it is pork/ giveaways/paybacks etc.
> This bill is literally 10 years worth of normal pork and pocket packing.
> 
> 
> 
> That a completely debunked lie. You should not parrot talking points. Makes you sound stupid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s actually what the bill says
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ve gone through this fact check and the 9%  claim is complete BS. Take the $1400 direct checks to citizens which is obvious Covid stimulus... What % does that comprise of the Bill?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> After the math only 9% is going to Americans the rest is to democrats buying votes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn’t actually do the math did you? If you did you would see that you are completely full of shit. Also, don’t try and change the statement... the claim was on 9% was for COVID and the rest was pork. Don’t be saying “going to Americans” now. Do you consider funding vaccine roll out and administration COVID relief? What about PPE for hospitals?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I just gave you my math where is yours
Click to expand...

Where’s your math? I didn’t see it


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## Funwithfacts

Slade3200 said:


> Funwithfacts said:
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> Slade3200 said:
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> iamwhatiseem said:
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> Less than 9% of this bill is going towards anything to do with Covid.
> 91% of it is pork/ giveaways/paybacks etc.
> This bill is literally 10 years worth of normal pork and pocket packing.
> 
> 
> 
> That a completely debunked lie. You should not parrot talking points. Makes you sound stupid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s actually what the bill says
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ve gone through this fact check and the 9%  claim is complete BS. Take the $1400 direct checks to citizens which is obvious Covid stimulus... What % does that comprise of the Bill?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> After the math only 9% is going to Americans the rest is to democrats buying votes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn’t actually do the math did you? If you did you would see that you are completely full of shit. Also, don’t try and change the statement... the claim was on 9% was for COVID and the rest was pork. Don’t be saying “going to Americans” now. Do you consider funding vaccine roll out and administration COVID relief? What about PPE for hospitals?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I just gave you my math where is yours
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where’s your math? I didn’t see it
Click to expand...

I didn’t think you could back it up


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## Slade3200

Funwithfacts said:


> Slade3200 said:
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> Slade3200 said:
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> iamwhatiseem said:
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> Less than 9% of this bill is going towards anything to do with Covid.
> 91% of it is pork/ giveaways/paybacks etc.
> This bill is literally 10 years worth of normal pork and pocket packing.
> 
> 
> 
> That a completely debunked lie. You should not parrot talking points. Makes you sound stupid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s actually what the bill says
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ve gone through this fact check and the 9%  claim is complete BS. Take the $1400 direct checks to citizens which is obvious Covid stimulus... What % does that comprise of the Bill?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> After the math only 9% is going to Americans the rest is to democrats buying votes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn’t actually do the math did you? If you did you would see that you are completely full of shit. Also, don’t try and change the statement... the claim was on 9% was for COVID and the rest was pork. Don’t be saying “going to Americans” now. Do you consider funding vaccine roll out and administration COVID relief? What about PPE for hospitals?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I just gave you my math where is yours
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where’s your math? I didn’t see it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn’t think you could back it up
Click to expand...

Ok it’s too early to play games and wait for you to actually do some work so here.

$1400 checks being sent directly to citizens is obvious Covid relief. It comprises $400 billion of the package. $400B divided by $1.9T is 21%.

Ill say again. Stop parroting BS talking points. It just makes you look foolish. Put like two minutes of brain power into these things and some original thought.


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## Funwithfacts

Slade3200 said:


> It comprises $400 billion


Not so fast lol math on that ?


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## Slade3200

Funwithfacts said:


> Slade3200 said:
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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
Click to expand...

No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn


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## Slade3200

Slade3200 said:


> Funwithfacts said:
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> Slade3200 said:
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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
Click to expand...

You crunching numbers?


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## Funwithfacts

Slade3200 said:


> Funwithfacts said:
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> Slade3200 said:
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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
Click to expand...

You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?


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## Slade3200

Funwithfacts said:


> Slade3200 said:
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> Slade3200 said:
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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
Click to expand...

Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong


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## Funwithfacts

Slade3200 said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
Click to expand...

Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.


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## Slade3200

Funwithfacts said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
Click to expand...

Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work


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## Funwithfacts

Slade3200 said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
Click to expand...

I asked you first let’s go boy


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## Slade3200

Funwithfacts said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
Click to expand...

And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.


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## Funwithfacts

Slade3200 said:


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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
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> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
Click to expand...

You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol


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## Slade3200

Funwithfacts said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
Click to expand...

Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments


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## Funwithfacts

Slade3200 said:


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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
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> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
Click to expand...

You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh


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## Slade3200

Funwithfacts said:


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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
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> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
Click to expand...

That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question


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## Funwithfacts

Slade3200 said:


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> Click to expand...
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> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
Click to expand...

“ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy


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## Slade3200

Funwithfacts said:


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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
Click to expand...

Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak


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## Funwithfacts

Slade3200 said:


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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
Click to expand...

You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol


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## Slade3200

Funwithfacts said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
Click to expand...

I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go 

This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation. 

So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?


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## Funwithfacts

Slade3200 said:


> would cost about $422 billion,


Link?


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## AzogtheDefiler

Penelope said:


> Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell on Wednesday explained that he's opposing the $1,400 stimulus checks in President Joe Biden's $1.9 trillion economic relief bill due to concerns that the payments could stop Americans from working.
> 
> McConnell Opposes $1,400 Stimulus Checks Because He Thinks People Could Stop Working (newsweek.com)
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 
> He is out of touch with reality and should retire!!


He is right. It happened in the Summer of 2020. People got paid more to stay home than work.


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## AzogtheDefiler

Slade3200 said:


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> Slade3200 said:
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> It comprises $400 billion
> 
> 
> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
Click to expand...

How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?


----------



## Slade3200

Funwithfacts said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> would cost about $422 billion,
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Concede and fall on your sword like an honorable soldier... you’ve embarrassed yourself enough for one day.









						What's in the $1.9 Trillion House COVID Relief Bill? | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
					

The House of Representatives is currently in the process of considering the next COVID relief bill. Nine of the 12 House committees have approved legislation.




					www.crfb.org


----------



## Funwithfacts

Slade3200 said:


> Funwithfacts said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> would cost about $422 billion,
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Concede and fall on your sword like an honorable soldier... you’ve embarrassed yourself enough for one day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's in the $1.9 Trillion House COVID Relief Bill? | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
> 
> 
> The House of Representatives is currently in the process of considering the next COVID relief bill. Nine of the 12 House committees have approved legislation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.crfb.org
Click to expand...

Feb 18th? lol this was changed like four times in the past 4 weeks lol


----------



## Slade3200

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Slade3200 said:
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> Funwithfacts said:
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> Funwithfacts said:
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> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It comprises $400 billion
> 
> 
> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
Click to expand...

Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far from the proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?


----------



## Funwithfacts

Slade3200 said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
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> Funwithfacts said:
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> Slade3200 said:
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> 
> 
> It comprises $400 billion
> 
> 
> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
Click to expand...

Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.


----------



## Slade3200

Funwithfacts said:


> Slade3200 said:
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> Funwithfacts said:
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> Slade3200 said:
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> would cost about $422 billion,
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Concede and fall on your sword like an honorable soldier... you’ve embarrassed yourself enough for one day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's in the $1.9 Trillion House COVID Relief Bill? | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
> 
> 
> The House of Representatives is currently in the process of considering the next COVID relief bill. Nine of the 12 House committees have approved legislation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.crfb.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Feb 18th? lol this was changed like four times in the past 4 weeks lol
Click to expand...

The $1400 checks wasnt changed and I just showed how that makes up $22% of $1.9T. If anything the recent changes made that % go up. Is that really the best argument you can make?! Come on. You’re done!!


----------



## Funwithfacts

Slade3200 said:


> Funwithfacts said:
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> Slade3200 said:
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> Funwithfacts said:
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> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> would cost about $422 billion,
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Concede and fall on your sword like an honorable soldier... you’ve embarrassed yourself enough for one day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's in the $1.9 Trillion House COVID Relief Bill? | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
> 
> 
> The House of Representatives is currently in the process of considering the next COVID relief bill. Nine of the 12 House committees have approved legislation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.crfb.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Feb 18th? lol this was changed like four times in the past 4 weeks lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The $1400 checks wasnt changed and I just showed how that makes up $22% of $1.9T. If anything the recent changes made that % go up. Is that really the best argument you can make?! Come on. You’re done!!
Click to expand...

How many Americans make less then 75 thousands? Want to talk math let’s go.


----------



## Slade3200

Funwithfacts said:


> Slade3200 said:
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> AzogtheDefiler said:
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> Funwithfacts said:
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> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It comprises $400 billion
> 
> 
> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
Click to expand...

I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?


----------



## citygator

iamwhatiseem said:


> Less than 9% of this bill is going towards anything to do with Covid.
> 91% of it is pork/ giveaways/paybacks etc.
> This bill is literally 10 years worth of normal pork and pocket packing.


Fucking lie. Stop watching Fox dude. It’ll screw your brain up.


----------



## Funwithfacts

Slade3200 said:


> Funwithfacts said:
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> Funwithfacts said:
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> Slade3200 said:
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> 
> 
> It comprises $400 billion
> 
> 
> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
Click to expand...

Lol business need WORKERS! Who’s going to return to work if you can make more staying home.. Do you even know how this works?


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## AzogtheDefiler

Slade3200 said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far from the proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
Click to expand...

Because they picked an arbitrary value of compensation vs. anything else. My niece and her fiancee live with her parents they are each getting money as they are under the $75k threshold but they aren't remotely struggling. Both are still working and they don't pay rent or utilities. To them its just free money. Zero to do with COVID.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

citygator said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Less than 9% of this bill is going towards anything to do with Covid.
> 91% of it is pork/ giveaways/paybacks etc.
> This bill is literally 10 years worth of normal pork and pocket packing.
> 
> 
> 
> Fucking lie. Stop watching Fox dude. It’ll screw your brain up.
> View attachment 465457
Click to expand...

At least he has a brain to wash. You should really go and see the Wizard.


----------



## Funwithfacts

Slade3200 said:


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> would cost about $422 billion,
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Concede and fall on your sword like an honorable soldier... you’ve embarrassed yourself enough for one day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's in the $1.9 Trillion House COVID Relief Bill? | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
> 
> 
> The House of Representatives is currently in the process of considering the next COVID relief bill. Nine of the 12 House committees have approved legislation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.crfb.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Feb 18th? lol this was changed like four times in the past 4 weeks lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The $1400 checks wasnt changed and I just showed how that makes up $22% of $1.9T. If anything the recent changes made that % go up. Is that really the best argument you can make?! Come on. You’re done!!
Click to expand...










						PolitiFact - Budd says 9% of stimulus targets COVID, the rest is 'not even' related
					

A North Carolina congressman claims the Democrats’ proposed stimulus plan has very little to do with the coronavirus. Th




					www.politifact.com
				



Sorry loser


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## citygator

People don’t quit their job for a one time payout. There is some anecdotal evidence extending unemployment payments discourages people from taking shitty $7.25 an hour jobs.


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## Funwithfacts

citygator said:


> People don’t quit their job for a one time payout. There is some anecdotal evidence extending unemployment payments discourages people from taking shitty $7.25 an hour jobs.


You care about wages but just opened the border to thousands of low wage workers? Lol


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Slade3200 said:


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> Slade3200 said:
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> It comprises $400 billion
> 
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> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
Click to expand...

So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals


COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​


----------



## Funwithfacts

AzogtheDefiler said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
> 
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> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
Click to expand...

I got the same numbers.. these lefties can’t do math


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## Funwithfacts

Slade3200 are you ok? I’ll check on you later lol


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## Slade3200

Funwithfacts said:


> Slade3200 said:
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> Slade3200 said:
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> would cost about $422 billion,
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Concede and fall on your sword like an honorable soldier... you’ve embarrassed yourself enough for one day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's in the $1.9 Trillion House COVID Relief Bill? | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
> 
> 
> The House of Representatives is currently in the process of considering the next COVID relief bill. Nine of the 12 House committees have approved legislation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.crfb.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Feb 18th? lol this was changed like four times in the past 4 weeks lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The $1400 checks wasnt changed and I just showed how that makes up $22% of $1.9T. If anything the recent changes made that % go up. Is that really the best argument you can make?! Come on. You’re done!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many Americans make less then 75 thousands? Want to talk math let’s go.
Click to expand...

No lazy ass, I've gone twice now. you don't get to keep asking questions. If you don't think the amount of people receiving these funds adds up then show the numbers. I showed the math and I showed the analysis by the congressional budget committee. Now show why you think I'm wrong


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## Slade3200

Funwithfacts said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
> 
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> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol business need WORKERS! Who’s going to return to work if you can make more staying home.. Do you even know how this works?
Click to expand...

More questions?? Sorry, concede that the 9% is bullshit and you were wrong or provide a counter argument and then I'll address your other questions


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## Slade3200

AzogtheDefiler said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far from the proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because they picked an arbitrary value of compensation vs. anything else. My niece and her fiancee live with her parents they are each getting money as they are under the $75k threshold but they aren't remotely struggling. Both are still working and they don't pay rent or utilities. To them its just free money. Zero to do with COVID.
Click to expand...

What are they doing with the money?


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## Slade3200

Funwithfacts said:


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> would cost about $422 billion,
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> Link?
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> Concede and fall on your sword like an honorable soldier... you’ve embarrassed yourself enough for one day.
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> 
> What's in the $1.9 Trillion House COVID Relief Bill? | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
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> The House of Representatives is currently in the process of considering the next COVID relief bill. Nine of the 12 House committees have approved legislation.
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> 
> www.crfb.org
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Feb 18th? lol this was changed like four times in the past 4 weeks lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The $1400 checks wasnt changed and I just showed how that makes up $22% of $1.9T. If anything the recent changes made that % go up. Is that really the best argument you can make?! Come on. You’re done!!
> 
> Click to expand...
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> PolitiFact - Budd says 9% of stimulus targets COVID, the rest is 'not even' related
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> A North Carolina congressman claims the Democrats’ proposed stimulus plan has very little to do with the coronavirus. Th
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> www.politifact.com
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> 
> Sorry loser
Click to expand...

hahahahaha. You think this proves your point? Man you are more retarded than I thought. This half true fact check only shows that 9% of the bill is directed at combating the virus... Thats not what this discussion is about. This discussion is about the lie and ignorant statement below...

_Less than 9% of this bill is going towards anything to do with Covid.
91% of it is pork/ giveaways/paybacks etc.
This bill is literally 10 years worth of normal pork and pocket packing._

Your link literally explains why. Ready to concede yet?


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## AzogtheDefiler

Slade3200 said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far from the proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because they picked an arbitrary value of compensation vs. anything else. My niece and her fiancee live with her parents they are each getting money as they are under the $75k threshold but they aren't remotely struggling. Both are still working and they don't pay rent or utilities. To them its just free money. Zero to do with COVID.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are they doing with the money?
Click to expand...

What money? The remaining $1.7Trn? Wasting it. Funding underfunded pensions, homeless wasteful spend, etc.

It is listed in the link just not spelled out. The Bill could have easily been $200bn.


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## Slade3200

AzogtheDefiler said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
Click to expand...

Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?


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## Slade3200

AzogtheDefiler said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far from the proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because they picked an arbitrary value of compensation vs. anything else. My niece and her fiancee live with her parents they are each getting money as they are under the $75k threshold but they aren't remotely struggling. Both are still working and they don't pay rent or utilities. To them its just free money. Zero to do with COVID.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are they doing with the money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What money? The remaining $1.7Trn? Wasting it. Funding underfunded pensions, homeless wasteful spend, etc.
> 
> It is listed in the link just not spelled out. The Bill could have easily been $200bn.
Click to expand...

What are your Niece and her Fiancee doing with the check they are getting?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Slade3200 said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
Click to expand...

They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Slade3200 said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
> 
> 
> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far from the proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because they picked an arbitrary value of compensation vs. anything else. My niece and her fiancee live with her parents they are each getting money as they are under the $75k threshold but they aren't remotely struggling. Both are still working and they don't pay rent or utilities. To them its just free money. Zero to do with COVID.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are they doing with the money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What money? The remaining $1.7Trn? Wasting it. Funding underfunded pensions, homeless wasteful spend, etc.
> 
> It is listed in the link just not spelled out. The Bill could have easily been $200bn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are your Niece and her Fiancee doing with the check they are getting?
Click to expand...

No idea. Didn't ask them. I am guessing they will pocket the money. Maybe take a vacation?


----------



## Weatherman2020

Where’s my $2,000 Joe promised would be his top priority?


----------



## Slade3200

AzogtheDefiler said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
> 
> 
> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS


----------



## Slade3200

AzogtheDefiler said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
> 
> 
> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far from the proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because they picked an arbitrary value of compensation vs. anything else. My niece and her fiancee live with her parents they are each getting money as they are under the $75k threshold but they aren't remotely struggling. Both are still working and they don't pay rent or utilities. To them its just free money. Zero to do with COVID.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are they doing with the money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What money? The remaining $1.7Trn? Wasting it. Funding underfunded pensions, homeless wasteful spend, etc.
> 
> It is listed in the link just not spelled out. The Bill could have easily been $200bn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are your Niece and her Fiancee doing with the check they are getting?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No idea. Didn't ask them. I am guessing they will pocket the money. Maybe take a vacation?
Click to expand...

Perfect. Thats the point... Take a vacation. Get some revenue flowing in the airlines and hotels and cities that have been starved of tourism over the past year.  Thats what stimulus is for! It all comes back to the Gov. They are still charging Taxes last time I checked


----------



## Slade3200

Weatherman2020 said:


> Where’s my $2,000 Joe promised would be his top priority?


in the Bill smart guy. $600 came in December and $1400 through this bill. Grab your calculator and type in some numbers... This is really going to blow your mind. Make sure you hit the plus button.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Slade3200 said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
Click to expand...

My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.


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## AzogtheDefiler

Slade3200 said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far from the proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because they picked an arbitrary value of compensation vs. anything else. My niece and her fiancee live with her parents they are each getting money as they are under the $75k threshold but they aren't remotely struggling. Both are still working and they don't pay rent or utilities. To them its just free money. Zero to do with COVID.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are they doing with the money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What money? The remaining $1.7Trn? Wasting it. Funding underfunded pensions, homeless wasteful spend, etc.
> 
> It is listed in the link just not spelled out. The Bill could have easily been $200bn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are your Niece and her Fiancee doing with the check they are getting?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No idea. Didn't ask them. I am guessing they will pocket the money. Maybe take a vacation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perfect. Thats the point... Take a vacation. Get some revenue flowing in the airlines and hotels and cities that have been starved of tourism over the past year.  Thats what stimulus is for! It all comes back to the Gov. They are still charging Taxes last time I checked
Click to expand...

Or you keep the $2,800? LOL

So why not give everyone free money? That logic is illogical. They don't need the money. Basing stimulus on income is insanity. My dad is embarrassed by it. He doesn't want or need it but qualifies as he is retired.


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## Slade3200

AzogtheDefiler said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
Click to expand...

Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid


*Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion


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## Slade3200

AzogtheDefiler said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far from the proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because they picked an arbitrary value of compensation vs. anything else. My niece and her fiancee live with her parents they are each getting money as they are under the $75k threshold but they aren't remotely struggling. Both are still working and they don't pay rent or utilities. To them its just free money. Zero to do with COVID.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are they doing with the money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What money? The remaining $1.7Trn? Wasting it. Funding underfunded pensions, homeless wasteful spend, etc.
> 
> It is listed in the link just not spelled out. The Bill could have easily been $200bn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are your Niece and her Fiancee doing with the check they are getting?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No idea. Didn't ask them. I am guessing they will pocket the money. Maybe take a vacation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perfect. Thats the point... Take a vacation. Get some revenue flowing in the airlines and hotels and cities that have been starved of tourism over the past year.  Thats what stimulus is for! It all comes back to the Gov. They are still charging Taxes last time I checked
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or you keep the $2,800? LOL
> 
> So why not give everyone free money? That logic is illogical. They don't need the money. Basing stimulus on income is insanity. My dad is embarrassed by it. He doesn't want or need it but qualifies as he is retired.
Click to expand...

Some people want to institute a universal basic income. It isn't really illogical. Those who get and dont need it should go to local businesses and spend it... Thats the point, get it out in circulation. It comes right back to the Gov after a few cycles.


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## AzogtheDefiler

Slade3200 said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
Click to expand...

I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?


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## Slade3200

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
Click to expand...

No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.

I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school


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## Sunsettommy

pknopp said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
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> Less than 9% of this bill is going towards anything to do with Covid.
> 91% of it is pork/ giveaways/paybacks etc.
> This bill is literally 10 years worth of normal pork and pocket packing.
> 
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> 
> As were the two earlier covid bills.
Click to expand...


Any we somehow need another "Stimulus" FIAT check because the previous band aid approach didn't solve the problem.


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## AzogtheDefiler

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
Click to expand...

Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?


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## Slade3200

AzogtheDefiler said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
Click to expand...

I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID


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## AzogtheDefiler

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
Click to expand...

But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.


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## Slade3200

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
Click to expand...

Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?


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## AzogtheDefiler

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> It comprises $400 billion
> 
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
Click to expand...

No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.


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## Slade3200

AzogtheDefiler said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
Click to expand...

Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done


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## AzogtheDefiler

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
Click to expand...

Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.


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## Slade3200

AzogtheDefiler said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Click to expand...
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> Click to expand...
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> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
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> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Click to expand...
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> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
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> Click to expand...
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> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
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> Click to expand...
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> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
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> Click to expand...
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> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
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> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
Click to expand...

I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here


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## AzogtheDefiler

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Click to expand...
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
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> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
Click to expand...

Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.


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## Funwithfacts

Slade3200 said:


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> would cost about $422 billion,
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> Concede and fall on your sword like an honorable soldier... you’ve embarrassed yourself enough for one day.
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> What's in the $1.9 Trillion House COVID Relief Bill? | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
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> The House of Representatives is currently in the process of considering the next COVID relief bill. Nine of the 12 House committees have approved legislation.
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> Feb 18th? lol this was changed like four times in the past 4 weeks lol
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> The $1400 checks wasnt changed and I just showed how that makes up $22% of $1.9T. If anything the recent changes made that % go up. Is that really the best argument you can make?! Come on. You’re done!!
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> PolitiFact - Budd says 9% of stimulus targets COVID, the rest is 'not even' related
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> Sorry loser
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> hahahahaha. You think this proves your point? Man you are more retarded than I thought. This half true fact check only shows that 9% of the bill is directed at combating the virus... Thats not what this discussion is about. This discussion is about the lie and ignorant statement below...
> 
> _Less than 9% of this bill is going towards anything to do with Covid.
> 91% of it is pork/ giveaways/paybacks etc.
> This bill is literally 10 years worth of normal pork and pocket packing._
> 
> Your link literally explains why. Ready to concede yet?
Click to expand...

You can’t do math lol


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## LA RAM FAN

Penelope said:


> Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell on Wednesday explained that he's opposing the $1,400 stimulus checks in President Joe Biden's $1.9 trillion economic relief bill due to concerns that the payments could stop Americans from working.
> 
> McConnell Opposes $1,400 Stimulus Checks Because He Thinks People Could Stop Working (newsweek.com)
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 
> He is out of touch with reality and should retire!!


Funny how you thought he was a godsend for Turning  against trump and now all of a sudden you say he is out of touch with reality.what a hypocrite you are as always                  ,you are the perfect kind of hypocrite sorry as biased scum thst  represents the demorats perfectly,a flopflopper.


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## Slade3200

Funwithfacts said:


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> Concede and fall on your sword like an honorable soldier... you’ve embarrassed yourself enough for one day.
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> What's in the $1.9 Trillion House COVID Relief Bill? | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
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> The House of Representatives is currently in the process of considering the next COVID relief bill. Nine of the 12 House committees have approved legislation.
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> Feb 18th? lol this was changed like four times in the past 4 weeks lol
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> The $1400 checks wasnt changed and I just showed how that makes up $22% of $1.9T. If anything the recent changes made that % go up. Is that really the best argument you can make?! Come on. You’re done!!
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> PolitiFact - Budd says 9% of stimulus targets COVID, the rest is 'not even' related
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> Sorry loser
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> hahahahaha. You think this proves your point? Man you are more retarded than I thought. This half true fact check only shows that 9% of the bill is directed at combating the virus... Thats not what this discussion is about. This discussion is about the lie and ignorant statement below...
> 
> _Less than 9% of this bill is going towards anything to do with Covid.
> 91% of it is pork/ giveaways/paybacks etc.
> This bill is literally 10 years worth of normal pork and pocket packing._
> 
> Your link literally explains why. Ready to concede yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can’t do math lol
Click to expand...

I have an engineering degree. Math is my specialty. What is it you think I got wrong?


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## Slade3200

AzogtheDefiler said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
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> Click to expand...
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> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
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> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
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> Click to expand...
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> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
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> Click to expand...
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> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
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> Click to expand...
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> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> Click to expand...
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> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
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> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
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> Click to expand...
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> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
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> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
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> Click to expand...
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> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
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> Click to expand...
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> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
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> Click to expand...
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> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
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> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
Click to expand...

Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork


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## Penelope

LA RAM FAN said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell on Wednesday explained that he's opposing the $1,400 stimulus checks in President Joe Biden's $1.9 trillion economic relief bill due to concerns that the payments could stop Americans from working.
> 
> McConnell Opposes $1,400 Stimulus Checks Because He Thinks People Could Stop Working (newsweek.com)
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 
> He is out of touch with reality and should retire!!
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how you thought he was a godsend for Turning  against trump and now all of a sudden you say he is out of touch with reality.what a hypocrite you are as always                  ,you are the perfect kind of hypocrite sorry as biased scum thst  represents the demorats perfectly,a flopflopper.
Click to expand...


I never liked him and you can see why.


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## Funwithfacts

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> would cost about $422 billion,
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> Concede and fall on your sword like an honorable soldier... you’ve embarrassed yourself enough for one day.
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> What's in the $1.9 Trillion House COVID Relief Bill? | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
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> The House of Representatives is currently in the process of considering the next COVID relief bill. Nine of the 12 House committees have approved legislation.
> 
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> www.crfb.org
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> Click to expand...
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> Feb 18th? lol this was changed like four times in the past 4 weeks lol
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> Click to expand...
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> The $1400 checks wasnt changed and I just showed how that makes up $22% of $1.9T. If anything the recent changes made that % go up. Is that really the best argument you can make?! Come on. You’re done!!
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> PolitiFact - Budd says 9% of stimulus targets COVID, the rest is 'not even' related
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> A North Carolina congressman claims the Democrats’ proposed stimulus plan has very little to do with the coronavirus. Th
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> www.politifact.com
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> Sorry loser
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> hahahahaha. You think this proves your point? Man you are more retarded than I thought. This half true fact check only shows that 9% of the bill is directed at combating the virus... Thats not what this discussion is about. This discussion is about the lie and ignorant statement below...
> 
> _Less than 9% of this bill is going towards anything to do with Covid.
> 91% of it is pork/ giveaways/paybacks etc.
> This bill is literally 10 years worth of normal pork and pocket packing._
> 
> Your link literally explains why. Ready to concede yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can’t do math lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I have an engineering degree. Math is my specialty. What is it you think I got wrong?
Click to expand...

Me and al Did the math, you might want to get your money back from that school lol


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## AzogtheDefiler

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
Click to expand...

It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.


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## Funwithfacts

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
Click to expand...

The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies


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## Penelope

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
Click to expand...


But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated." 

"Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.

A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December. 

"These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said. 

PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?


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## Funwithfacts

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
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> Click to expand...
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> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
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> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
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> Click to expand...
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> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
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> Click to expand...
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> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
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> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> Click to expand...
> 
> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
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> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
> 
> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
> 
> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
Click to expand...

 I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back


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## AzogtheDefiler

Funwithfacts said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> Click to expand...
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
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> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
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> Click to expand...
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> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> Click to expand...
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> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
> 
> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
> 
> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
Click to expand...

It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.


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## Funwithfacts

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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
> 
> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
> 
> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
Click to expand...

And since they admit it is they should be stuck with the bill


----------



## Penelope

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> It comprises $400 billion
> 
> 
> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
> 
> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
> 
> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
Click to expand...


To you!! and Funwithfacts


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## Funwithfacts

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> 
> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
> 
> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
> 
> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To you!!
Click to expand...

Communism and socialism does not work.. you morons will be stuck with the bill to pay off


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## AzogtheDefiler

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
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> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
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> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
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> Click to expand...
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> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
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> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
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> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
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> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
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> Click to expand...
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> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
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> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
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> Click to expand...
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> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
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> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
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> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
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> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
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> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
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> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
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> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And since they admit it is they should be stuck with the bill
Click to expand...

Unfortunately WE are all stuck with it.


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## AzogtheDefiler

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Click to expand...
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
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> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
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> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
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> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
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> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
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> Click to expand...
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> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
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> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
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> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
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> Click to expand...
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> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
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> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
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> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
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> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
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> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
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> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> Click to expand...
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> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
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> Click to expand...
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> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
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> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
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> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
> 
> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
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> Click to expand...
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> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To you!! and Funwithfacts
Click to expand...

Should be unnerving to anyone with a brain. Guess that DQs you...thanks for playing, antisemite.


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## Funwithfacts

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
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> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Click to expand...
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
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> Click to expand...
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> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> Click to expand...
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> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
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> Click to expand...
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> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
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> Click to expand...
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> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
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> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
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> Click to expand...
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> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> Click to expand...
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> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
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> Click to expand...
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> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
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> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
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> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
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> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
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> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
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> Click to expand...
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> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
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> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
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> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
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> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
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> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
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> Click to expand...
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> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
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> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
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> Click to expand...
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> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
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> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
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> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
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> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
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> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
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> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
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> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
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> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
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> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
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> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
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> And since they admit it is they should be stuck with the bill
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> Unfortunately WE are all stuck with it.
Click to expand...

Im not I’ll rob Democrats to pay it off .. call me Robin Hood


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## AzogtheDefiler

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
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> Click to expand...
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> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
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> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
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> Click to expand...
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> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
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> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
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> Click to expand...
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> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> Click to expand...
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> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
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> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
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> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
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> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
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> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
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> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
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> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To you!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Communism and socialism does not work.. you morons will be stuck with the bill to pay off
Click to expand...

Penelope is an antisemitic C*NT as you can see in my siggy. Trying to logically debate her is fruitless.


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## Penelope

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> Click to expand...
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> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
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> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
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> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
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> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
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> Click to expand...
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> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
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> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
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> Click to expand...
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> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
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> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
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> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
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> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
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> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
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> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
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> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
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> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> Click to expand...
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> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
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> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
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> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
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> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
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> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
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> Click to expand...
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> And since they admit it is they should be stuck with the bill
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> Click to expand...
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> Unfortunately WE are all stuck with it.
Click to expand...


yes all republicans voted no on it whereas 59% of republicans said they needed it.


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## AzogtheDefiler

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
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> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
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> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
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> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
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> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
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> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
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> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
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> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
> 
> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
> 
> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And since they admit it is they should be stuck with the bill
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unfortunately WE are all stuck with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes all republicans voted no on it whereas 59% of republicans said they needed it.
Click to expand...

Lie. Republicans said they needed certain aspects of it not the full $1.9Trn...I did the math earlier. We needed about $200Bn.


----------



## BlackSand

AFrench2 said:


> "I'm worried that crumbs would make the rabble stop working..."
> 
> "What's that? Oh, the tax cuts for the rich we passed in 2017? Well, those are our masters and they worked hard for that."



Says the ignorant twat that cannot tell the difference in not taking money someone has earned, versus giving someone money they haven't earned ... 

.


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## Penelope

AzogtheDefiler said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
> 
> 
> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
> 
> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
> 
> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And since they admit it is they should be stuck with the bill
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unfortunately WE are all stuck with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes all republicans voted no on it whereas 59% of republicans said they needed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lie. Republicans said they needed certain aspects of it not the full $1.9Trn...I did the math earlier. We needed about $200Bn.
Click to expand...



Nearly 7 in 10 Americans support the Biden administration's proposed $1.9 trillion stimulus relief bill in response to the coronavirus pandemic, as 68 percent say they support it and 24 percent oppose it.

Democrats support it 97 - 3 percent, independents support it 68 - 25 percent and Republicans are opposed 47 - 37 percent, with 16 percent not offering an opinion. 
National (US) Poll - February 3, 2021 - 61% Optimistic About Next Four | Quinnipiac University Connecticut 
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the maj or republican's disagree with you.


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## AzogtheDefiler

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
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> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
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> Click to expand...
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> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Click to expand...
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Click to expand...
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
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> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
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> Click to expand...
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> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
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> Click to expand...
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> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
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> Click to expand...
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> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
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> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> Click to expand...
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> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
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> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
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> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
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> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
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> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
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> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
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> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
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> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
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> Click to expand...
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> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
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> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
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> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
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> Click to expand...
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> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
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> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
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> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
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> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
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> Click to expand...
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> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
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> Click to expand...
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> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
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> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
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> Click to expand...
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> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
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> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
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> Click to expand...
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> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
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> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
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> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
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> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
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> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
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> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
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> Click to expand...
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> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
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> Click to expand...
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> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
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> Click to expand...
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> And since they admit it is they should be stuck with the bill
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> Click to expand...
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> Unfortunately WE are all stuck with it.
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> 
> yes all republicans voted no on it whereas 59% of republicans said they needed it.
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> Click to expand...
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> Lie. Republicans said they needed certain aspects of it not the full $1.9Trn...I did the math earlier. We needed about $200Bn.
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> Click to expand...
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> 
> 
> Nearly 7 in 10 Americans support the Biden administration's proposed $1.9 trillion stimulus relief bill in response to the coronavirus pandemic, as 68 percent say they support it and 24 percent oppose it.
> 
> Democrats support it 97 - 3 percent, independents support it 68 - 25 percent and Republicans are opposed 47 - 37 percent, with 16 percent not offering an opinion.
> National (US) Poll - February 3, 2021 - 61% Optimistic About Next Four | Quinnipiac University Connecticut
> -----------------------------
> the maj or republican's disagree with you.
Click to expand...

Polls are biased and of course many agree as they get free money! If I asked my kids would you support staying home and getting free money vs. going to school, how would they vote? Are you ever not an illogical poster? We cannot just print money forever. This was very poorly done and now my kids will have to bear the burden. Pretty sad.


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## Slade3200

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> would cost about $422 billion,
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> Link?
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> Concede and fall on your sword like an honorable soldier... you’ve embarrassed yourself enough for one day.
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> What's in the $1.9 Trillion House COVID Relief Bill? | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
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> The House of Representatives is currently in the process of considering the next COVID relief bill. Nine of the 12 House committees have approved legislation.
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> www.crfb.org
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> Feb 18th? lol this was changed like four times in the past 4 weeks lol
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> The $1400 checks wasnt changed and I just showed how that makes up $22% of $1.9T. If anything the recent changes made that % go up. Is that really the best argument you can make?! Come on. You’re done!!
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> PolitiFact - Budd says 9% of stimulus targets COVID, the rest is 'not even' related
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> A North Carolina congressman claims the Democrats’ proposed stimulus plan has very little to do with the coronavirus. Th
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> Sorry loser
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> hahahahaha. You think this proves your point? Man you are more retarded than I thought. This half true fact check only shows that 9% of the bill is directed at combating the virus... Thats not what this discussion is about. This discussion is about the lie and ignorant statement below...
> 
> _Less than 9% of this bill is going towards anything to do with Covid.
> 91% of it is pork/ giveaways/paybacks etc.
> This bill is literally 10 years worth of normal pork and pocket packing._
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> Your link literally explains why. Ready to concede yet?
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> You can’t do math lol
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> I have an engineering degree. Math is my specialty. What is it you think I got wrong?
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> Me and al Did the math, you might want to get your money back from that school lol
Click to expand...

Show your work


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## Slade3200

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
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> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
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> Click to expand...
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> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
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> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
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> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
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> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
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> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
Click to expand...

how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!


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## Slade3200

Funwithfacts said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> 
> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
Click to expand...

You’re definitely not arguing about substance as you’ve failed to back up any of your claims. You’re the laziest debater if dealt with in a while. I was generous calling you a debater


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## Slade3200

AzogtheDefiler said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> Click to expand...
> 
> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
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> Click to expand...
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> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
> 
> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
> 
> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
Click to expand...

I’m curious... what were your thoughts about the previous two bills that were passed under Trump by both parties? 90% pork as well?


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## Slade3200

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
> 
> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
> 
> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And since they admit it is they should be stuck with the bill
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unfortunately WE are all stuck with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Im not I’ll rob Democrats to pay it off .. call me Robin Hood
Click to expand...

What do you think you need to pay off ?


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## Slade3200

AzogtheDefiler said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
> 
> 
> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
> 
> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
> 
> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And since they admit it is they should be stuck with the bill
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unfortunately WE are all stuck with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes all republicans voted no on it whereas 59% of republicans said they needed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lie. Republicans said they needed certain aspects of it not the full $1.9Trn...I did the math earlier. We needed about $200Bn.
Click to expand...

The republicans wanted 5x that. Y’all are using different math. Did the republicans want the bill to be 80% pork?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Slade3200 said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
Click to expand...

Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.


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## AzogtheDefiler

Slade3200 said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
> 
> 
> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
> 
> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
> 
> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And since they admit it is they should be stuck with the bill
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unfortunately WE are all stuck with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes all republicans voted no on it whereas 59% of republicans said they needed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lie. Republicans said they needed certain aspects of it not the full $1.9Trn...I did the math earlier. We needed about $200Bn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The republicans wanted 5x that. Y’all are using different math. Did the republicans want the bill to be 80% pork?
Click to expand...

I hated the GOP version. Hated it! I am not a Republican. I am an Independent. Trump and I disagree vehemently on debt and it’s uses.


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## Slade3200

AzogtheDefiler said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
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> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
Click to expand...

It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.

so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?


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## Slade3200

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
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> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
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> Click to expand...
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> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
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> Click to expand...
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> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
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> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
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> Click to expand...
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> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
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> Click to expand...
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> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
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> Click to expand...
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> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
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> Click to expand...
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> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
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> Click to expand...
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> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
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> Click to expand...
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> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
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> Click to expand...
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> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
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> Click to expand...
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> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> Click to expand...
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> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
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> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
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> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
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> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
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> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
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> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
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> Click to expand...
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> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
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> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
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> And since they admit it is they should be stuck with the bill
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> Unfortunately WE are all stuck with it.
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> 
> yes all republicans voted no on it whereas 59% of republicans said they needed it.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Lie. Republicans said they needed certain aspects of it not the full $1.9Trn...I did the math earlier. We needed about $200Bn.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> The republicans wanted 5x that. Y’all are using different math. Did the republicans want the bill to be 80% pork?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I hated the GOP version. Hated it! I am not a Republican. I am an Independent. Trump and I disagree vehemently on debt and it’s uses.
Click to expand...

Did you think the republicans wanted 80% pork that wasn’t related to Covid?


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## AzogtheDefiler

Slade3200 said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> Click to expand...
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
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> Click to expand...
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> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
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> Click to expand...
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> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
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> Click to expand...
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> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
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> Click to expand...
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> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
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> Click to expand...
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> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
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> Click to expand...
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> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
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> Click to expand...
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> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> Click to expand...
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> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
Click to expand...

So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.


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## AzogtheDefiler

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
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> Click to expand...
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> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
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> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
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> Click to expand...
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> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
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> Click to expand...
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> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
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> Click to expand...
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> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
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> Click to expand...
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> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
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> Click to expand...
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> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
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> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> Click to expand...
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> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
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> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
> 
> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
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> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
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> Click to expand...
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> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
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> And since they admit it is they should be stuck with the bill
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> Unfortunately WE are all stuck with it.
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> 
> yes all republicans voted no on it whereas 59% of republicans said they needed it.
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> Click to expand...
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> Lie. Republicans said they needed certain aspects of it not the full $1.9Trn...I did the math earlier. We needed about $200Bn.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> The republicans wanted 5x that. Y’all are using different math. Did the republicans want the bill to be 80% pork?
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> Click to expand...
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> I hated the GOP version. Hated it! I am not a Republican. I am an Independent. Trump and I disagree vehemently on debt and it’s uses.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you think the republicans wanted 80% pork that wasn’t related to Covid?
Click to expand...

Idk...didn’t see their plan. But probably. Democrats and Republicans are equally inept when it comes to balancing the budget. Democrats are just a little worse and their social justice mantra is ridiculous.


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## Slade3200

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
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> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
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> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
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> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
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> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
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> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
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> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
Click to expand...

How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?


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## Slade3200

AzogtheDefiler said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> 
> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
> 
> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
> 
> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And since they admit it is they should be stuck with the bill
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unfortunately WE are all stuck with it.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes all republicans voted no on it whereas 59% of republicans said they needed it.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Lie. Republicans said they needed certain aspects of it not the full $1.9Trn...I did the math earlier. We needed about $200Bn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The republicans wanted 5x that. Y’all are using different math. Did the republicans want the bill to be 80% pork?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I hated the GOP version. Hated it! I am not a Republican. I am an Independent. Trump and I disagree vehemently on debt and it’s uses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you think the republicans wanted 80% pork that wasn’t related to Covid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Idk...didn’t see their plan. But probably. Democrats and Republicans are equally inept when it comes to balancing the budget. Democrats are just a little worse and their social justice mantra is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

I'm curious. If we could pay off all of the national debt right now do you think that would be a smart thing to do and put our economy in a better position?


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## AzogtheDefiler

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> It comprises $400 billion
> 
> 
> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
Click to expand...

Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.


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## AzogtheDefiler

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
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> Click to expand...
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> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
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> Click to expand...
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> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
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> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
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> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
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> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
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> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
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> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
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> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
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> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
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> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
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> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
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> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
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> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
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> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
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> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
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> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
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> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
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> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
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> And since they admit it is they should be stuck with the bill
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> Unfortunately WE are all stuck with it.
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> 
> yes all republicans voted no on it whereas 59% of republicans said they needed it.
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> Lie. Republicans said they needed certain aspects of it not the full $1.9Trn...I did the math earlier. We needed about $200Bn.
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> The republicans wanted 5x that. Y’all are using different math. Did the republicans want the bill to be 80% pork?
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> I hated the GOP version. Hated it! I am not a Republican. I am an Independent. Trump and I disagree vehemently on debt and it’s uses.
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> Did you think the republicans wanted 80% pork that wasn’t related to Covid?
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> Idk...didn’t see their plan. But probably. Democrats and Republicans are equally inept when it comes to balancing the budget. Democrats are just a little worse and their social justice mantra is ridiculous.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm curious. If we could pay off all of the national debt right now do you think that would be a smart thing to do and put our economy in a better position?
Click to expand...

No. Some debt is fine. Our GDP is ~$10trn? But going 3x that is crazy IMO and this isn’t the last of it as Biden will do a giant infrastructure spend bill. Do you see the money we can print as infinite? Just curious.


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## Slade3200

AzogtheDefiler said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Click to expand...
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> Click to expand...
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> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
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> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
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> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> Click to expand...
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> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> Click to expand...
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> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
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> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
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> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
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> Click to expand...
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> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
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> Click to expand...
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> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
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> Click to expand...
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> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
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> Click to expand...
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> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
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> Click to expand...
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> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
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> Click to expand...
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> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> Click to expand...
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> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
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> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
Click to expand...

Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?


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## Slade3200

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> It comprises $400 billion
> 
> 
> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
> 
> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
> 
> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And since they admit it is they should be stuck with the bill
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unfortunately WE are all stuck with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes all republicans voted no on it whereas 59% of republicans said they needed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lie. Republicans said they needed certain aspects of it not the full $1.9Trn...I did the math earlier. We needed about $200Bn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The republicans wanted 5x that. Y’all are using different math. Did the republicans want the bill to be 80% pork?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I hated the GOP version. Hated it! I am not a Republican. I am an Independent. Trump and I disagree vehemently on debt and it’s uses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you think the republicans wanted 80% pork that wasn’t related to Covid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Idk...didn’t see their plan. But probably. Democrats and Republicans are equally inept when it comes to balancing the budget. Democrats are just a little worse and their social justice mantra is ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm curious. If we could pay off all of the national debt right now do you think that would be a smart thing to do and put our economy in a better position?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. Some debt is fine. Our GDP is ~$10trn? But going 3x that is crazy IMO and this isn’t the last of it as Biden will do a giant infrastructure spend bill. Do you see the money we can print as infinite? Just curious.
Click to expand...

I think we need to have our currency and economy intelligently managed so no I don't think it is infinite, but I also think that many people don't understand the differences between our national budget and personal budgets. They are very different. 

Our GDP was over $21T in 2019 not $10T. Does that change anything for you?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
Click to expand...

How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?









						Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
					

The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI




					www.ceifx.com


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Slade3200 said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> 
> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
> 
> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
> 
> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And since they admit it is they should be stuck with the bill
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unfortunately WE are all stuck with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes all republicans voted no on it whereas 59% of republicans said they needed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lie. Republicans said they needed certain aspects of it not the full $1.9Trn...I did the math earlier. We needed about $200Bn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The republicans wanted 5x that. Y’all are using different math. Did the republicans want the bill to be 80% pork?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I hated the GOP version. Hated it! I am not a Republican. I am an Independent. Trump and I disagree vehemently on debt and it’s uses.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you think the republicans wanted 80% pork that wasn’t related to Covid?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Idk...didn’t see their plan. But probably. Democrats and Republicans are equally inept when it comes to balancing the budget. Democrats are just a little worse and their social justice mantra is ridiculous.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm curious. If we could pay off all of the national debt right now do you think that would be a smart thing to do and put our economy in a better position?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. Some debt is fine. Our GDP is ~$10trn? But going 3x that is crazy IMO and this isn’t the last of it as Biden will do a giant infrastructure spend bill. Do you see the money we can print as infinite? Just curious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we need to have our currency and economy intelligently managed so no I don't think it is infinite, but I also think that many people don't understand the differences between our national budget and personal budgets. They are very different.
> 
> Our GDP was over $21T in 2019 not $10T. Does that change anything for you?
Click to expand...

We should never be more than 1.5x. That’s serious leverage. We will be close to 2x post infrastructure bill. I just believe in a balanced budget and holding people accountable aka no more rescue plans.


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## Slade3200

AzogtheDefiler said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
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> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> 
> www.ceifx.com
Click to expand...

Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?

Historical Chart of Dollar Index:


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## Slade3200

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> Click to expand...
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> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
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> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> Click to expand...
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> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
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> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
> 
> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
> 
> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And since they admit it is they should be stuck with the bill
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unfortunately WE are all stuck with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes all republicans voted no on it whereas 59% of republicans said they needed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lie. Republicans said they needed certain aspects of it not the full $1.9Trn...I did the math earlier. We needed about $200Bn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The republicans wanted 5x that. Y’all are using different math. Did the republicans want the bill to be 80% pork?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I hated the GOP version. Hated it! I am not a Republican. I am an Independent. Trump and I disagree vehemently on debt and it’s uses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you think the republicans wanted 80% pork that wasn’t related to Covid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Idk...didn’t see their plan. But probably. Democrats and Republicans are equally inept when it comes to balancing the budget. Democrats are just a little worse and their social justice mantra is ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm curious. If we could pay off all of the national debt right now do you think that would be a smart thing to do and put our economy in a better position?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. Some debt is fine. Our GDP is ~$10trn? But going 3x that is crazy IMO and this isn’t the last of it as Biden will do a giant infrastructure spend bill. Do you see the money we can print as infinite? Just curious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we need to have our currency and economy intelligently managed so no I don't think it is infinite, but I also think that many people don't understand the differences between our national budget and personal budgets. They are very different.
> 
> Our GDP was over $21T in 2019 not $10T. Does that change anything for you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We should never be more than 1.5x. That’s serious leverage. We will be close to 2x post infrastructure bill. I just believe in a balanced budget and holding people accountable aka no more rescue plans.
Click to expand...

How are we going to be close to 2x? I'm not seeing that. Our GDP is at $20T... we aren't even close to spending $40T... What numbers are you looking at?


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## AzogtheDefiler

Slade3200 said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
> 
> 
> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
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> 
> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> www.ceifx.com
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> Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?
> 
> Historical Chart of Dollar Index:
> View attachment 465877
Click to expand...

If not for China I would be somewhat agnostic. But China is trying to take over as the world currency and if it does it will be very bad for our economy. They are a major threat and control the majority of manufacturing. Plus it is just bad practice to bail out companies. I always Tel my clients to build a balance sheet for rainy days. But why bother if the Govt will always come to your rescue? Many cities pension plans are underfunded and the cure? Print more money. It’s a terrible practice in my view.


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## AzogtheDefiler

Slade3200 said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> Click to expand...
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
> 
> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
> 
> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
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> Click to expand...
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> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
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> Click to expand...
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> And since they admit it is they should be stuck with the bill
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> Click to expand...
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> Unfortunately WE are all stuck with it.
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> 
> yes all republicans voted no on it whereas 59% of republicans said they needed it.
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> Click to expand...
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> Lie. Republicans said they needed certain aspects of it not the full $1.9Trn...I did the math earlier. We needed about $200Bn.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> The republicans wanted 5x that. Y’all are using different math. Did the republicans want the bill to be 80% pork?
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> Click to expand...
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> I hated the GOP version. Hated it! I am not a Republican. I am an Independent. Trump and I disagree vehemently on debt and it’s uses.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you think the republicans wanted 80% pork that wasn’t related to Covid?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Idk...didn’t see their plan. But probably. Democrats and Republicans are equally inept when it comes to balancing the budget. Democrats are just a little worse and their social justice mantra is ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm curious. If we could pay off all of the national debt right now do you think that would be a smart thing to do and put our economy in a better position?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. Some debt is fine. Our GDP is ~$10trn? But going 3x that is crazy IMO and this isn’t the last of it as Biden will do a giant infrastructure spend bill. Do you see the money we can print as infinite? Just curious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we need to have our currency and economy intelligently managed so no I don't think it is infinite, but I also think that many people don't understand the differences between our national budget and personal budgets. They are very different.
> 
> Our GDP was over $21T in 2019 not $10T. Does that change anything for you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We should never be more than 1.5x. That’s serious leverage. We will be close to 2x post infrastructure bill. I just believe in a balanced budget and holding people accountable aka no more rescue plans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How are we going to be close to 2x? I'm not seeing that. Our GDP is at $20T... we aren't even close to spending $40T... What numbers are you looking at?
Click to expand...

We are at $28? How much will the infrastructure spend be? Green New Deal? You’re looking at another $5trn? And I think 1.5x is the Max I d be comfortable with and that’s $36trn and we will be there before the end of Bidens presidency. Wanna bet?


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## Meathead

Penelope said:


> Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell on Wednesday explained that he's opposing the $1,400 stimulus checks in President Joe Biden's $1.9 trillion economic relief bill due to concerns that the payments could stop Americans from working.
> 
> McConnell Opposes $1,400 Stimulus Checks Because He Thinks People Could Stop Working (newsweek.com)
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 
> He is out of touch with reality and should retire!!


Tell the Grim Reaper that there's an old man in the White House whose time has come.


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## Slade3200

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
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> 
> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> www.ceifx.com
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> 
> Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?
> 
> Historical Chart of Dollar Index:
> View attachment 465877
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If not for China I would be somewhat agnostic. But China is trying to take over as the world currency and if it does it will be very bad for our economy. They are a major threat and control the majority of manufacturing. Plus it is just bad practice to bail out companies. I always Tel my clients to build a balance sheet for rainy days. But why bother if the Govt will always come to your rescue? Many cities pension plans are underfunded and the cure? Print more money. It’s a terrible practice in my view.
Click to expand...

Ok, I understand, I used to and still somewhat do feel the same way, however after diving into some of the questions that I've been asking you my thinking is evolving. Care to address the things I've been asking you?


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## Slade3200

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
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> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
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> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
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> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
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> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
> 
> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
> 
> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And since they admit it is they should be stuck with the bill
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unfortunately WE are all stuck with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes all republicans voted no on it whereas 59% of republicans said they needed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lie. Republicans said they needed certain aspects of it not the full $1.9Trn...I did the math earlier. We needed about $200Bn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The republicans wanted 5x that. Y’all are using different math. Did the republicans want the bill to be 80% pork?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I hated the GOP version. Hated it! I am not a Republican. I am an Independent. Trump and I disagree vehemently on debt and it’s uses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you think the republicans wanted 80% pork that wasn’t related to Covid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Idk...didn’t see their plan. But probably. Democrats and Republicans are equally inept when it comes to balancing the budget. Democrats are just a little worse and their social justice mantra is ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm curious. If we could pay off all of the national debt right now do you think that would be a smart thing to do and put our economy in a better position?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. Some debt is fine. Our GDP is ~$10trn? But going 3x that is crazy IMO and this isn’t the last of it as Biden will do a giant infrastructure spend bill. Do you see the money we can print as infinite? Just curious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we need to have our currency and economy intelligently managed so no I don't think it is infinite, but I also think that many people don't understand the differences between our national budget and personal budgets. They are very different.
> 
> Our GDP was over $21T in 2019 not $10T. Does that change anything for you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We should never be more than 1.5x. That’s serious leverage. We will be close to 2x post infrastructure bill. I just believe in a balanced budget and holding people accountable aka no more rescue plans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How are we going to be close to 2x? I'm not seeing that. Our GDP is at $20T... we aren't even close to spending $40T... What numbers are you looking at?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We are at $28? How much will the infrastructure spend be? Green New Deal? You’re looking at another $5trn? And I think 1.5x is the Max I d be comfortable with and that’s $36trn and we will be there before the end of Bidens presidency. Wanna bet?
Click to expand...

$28 Trillion?! Where did you get that? Last I checked the 2021 deficit was projected at a bit over $2 Trillion... Roughly, $21T of incoming and $23T of outgoing. Where are you getting your numbers from?


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## Concerned American

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell on Wednesday explained that he's opposing the $1,400 stimulus checks in President Joe Biden's $1.9 trillion economic relief bill due to concerns that the payments could stop Americans from working.
> 
> McConnell Opposes $1,400 Stimulus Checks Because He Thinks People Could Stop Working (newsweek.com)
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 
> He is out of touch with reality and should retire!!
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans clearly have nothing but contempt for working Americans.
Click to expand...

Republicans are the ONLY working Americans.  Democrats are all on the dole.  Piglosi even invented a fantasy insurrection on Mar. 4 so she and her useless democrat congressional cohorts could go home for a long weekend instead of working.  Now she wants to pass another unemployment stimulus to give lazy people more money to stay home than work.


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## AzogtheDefiler

Slade3200 said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
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> Click to expand...
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> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
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> Click to expand...
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> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
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> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> www.ceifx.com
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> Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?
> 
> Historical Chart of Dollar Index:
> View attachment 465877
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> Click to expand...
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> If not for China I would be somewhat agnostic. But China is trying to take over as the world currency and if it does it will be very bad for our economy. They are a major threat and control the majority of manufacturing. Plus it is just bad practice to bail out companies. I always Tel my clients to build a balance sheet for rainy days. But why bother if the Govt will always come to your rescue? Many cities pension plans are underfunded and the cure? Print more money. It’s a terrible practice in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, I understand, I used to and still somewhat do feel the same way, however after diving into some of the questions that I've been asking you my thinking is evolving. Care to address the things I've been asking you?
Click to expand...

#1) I don't want to compare today to 20 years ago as China is nipping at our heels and wasn't back then. So I addressed that.

#2) I think when we devalue money by just printing it we are not holding citizens accountable. Is the next step college debt forgiveness? I think personal and corporate responsibility are essential. Companies must build balance sheets to survive downturns.

#3) At some point the debt will have to be paid back or written off and it is not like we have a balanced budget. $21Trn, don't know where I got $10 from btw is revenue not profit, why? We don't have profit. Being insolvent is not a good place to be for a person, company or country. 

#4) I hate how we arbitrarily send checks. If you are worried about people then extend unemployment but paying $600 per week was insane. People earned more staying home (not all but many). I am OK extending unemployment but not issuing $1,400 to those who don't even need it. How is that remotely logical?

What other questions do you have?


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## jbrownson0831

Penelope said:


> Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell on Wednesday explained that he's opposing the $1,400 stimulus checks in President Joe Biden's $1.9 trillion economic relief bill due to concerns that the payments could stop Americans from working.
> 
> McConnell Opposes $1,400 Stimulus Checks Because He Thinks People Could Stop Working (newsweek.com)
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 
> He is out of touch with reality and should retire!!


Wow you libbers really are opposite thinkers arent you?  There are plenty of jobs available now did you not see the Feb jobs report?  If you don't have one its by choice and the 1400 is designed to do exactly that by the Dims...keep dregs at home.


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## AzogtheDefiler

Slade3200 said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
> 
> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
> 
> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
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> Click to expand...
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> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
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> Click to expand...
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> And since they admit it is they should be stuck with the bill
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> Click to expand...
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> Unfortunately WE are all stuck with it.
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> Click to expand...
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> 
> yes all republicans voted no on it whereas 59% of republicans said they needed it.
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> Click to expand...
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> Lie. Republicans said they needed certain aspects of it not the full $1.9Trn...I did the math earlier. We needed about $200Bn.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> The republicans wanted 5x that. Y’all are using different math. Did the republicans want the bill to be 80% pork?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I hated the GOP version. Hated it! I am not a Republican. I am an Independent. Trump and I disagree vehemently on debt and it’s uses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you think the republicans wanted 80% pork that wasn’t related to Covid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Idk...didn’t see their plan. But probably. Democrats and Republicans are equally inept when it comes to balancing the budget. Democrats are just a little worse and their social justice mantra is ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm curious. If we could pay off all of the national debt right now do you think that would be a smart thing to do and put our economy in a better position?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. Some debt is fine. Our GDP is ~$10trn? But going 3x that is crazy IMO and this isn’t the last of it as Biden will do a giant infrastructure spend bill. Do you see the money we can print as infinite? Just curious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we need to have our currency and economy intelligently managed so no I don't think it is infinite, but I also think that many people don't understand the differences between our national budget and personal budgets. They are very different.
> 
> Our GDP was over $21T in 2019 not $10T. Does that change anything for you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We should never be more than 1.5x. That’s serious leverage. We will be close to 2x post infrastructure bill. I just believe in a balanced budget and holding people accountable aka no more rescue plans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How are we going to be close to 2x? I'm not seeing that. Our GDP is at $20T... we aren't even close to spending $40T... What numbers are you looking at?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We are at $28? How much will the infrastructure spend be? Green New Deal? You’re looking at another $5trn? And I think 1.5x is the Max I d be comfortable with and that’s $36trn and we will be there before the end of Bidens presidency. Wanna bet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> $28 Trillion?! Where did you get that? Last I checked the 2021 deficit was projected at a bit over $2 Trillion... Roughly, $21T of incoming and $23T of outgoing. Where are you getting your numbers from?
Click to expand...

Current debt $23.5Trn...add $2rn and we are at $25.5Trn...bye FYE'21 I believe we will be at $28trn...keep in mind we aren't making a profit, we are adding to the deficit. So if we lose $2trn per year, thats $8Trn + interest, you're looking at ~$36Trn by the end of Biden's term and that is BEFORE he spends on infrastructure and green projects. Never said spend $40Trn...I said total debt would be $40Trn...and you don't care? Why?


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## Slade3200

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
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> Click to expand...
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> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
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> 
> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> www.ceifx.com
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> 
> Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?
> 
> Historical Chart of Dollar Index:
> View attachment 465877
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If not for China I would be somewhat agnostic. But China is trying to take over as the world currency and if it does it will be very bad for our economy. They are a major threat and control the majority of manufacturing. Plus it is just bad practice to bail out companies. I always Tel my clients to build a balance sheet for rainy days. But why bother if the Govt will always come to your rescue? Many cities pension plans are underfunded and the cure? Print more money. It’s a terrible practice in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, I understand, I used to and still somewhat do feel the same way, however after diving into some of the questions that I've been asking you my thinking is evolving. Care to address the things I've been asking you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> #1) I don't want to compare today to 20 years ago as China is nipping at our heels and wasn't back then. So I addressed that.
> 
> #2) I think when we devalue money by just printing it we are not holding citizens accountable. Is the next step college debt forgiveness? I think personal and corporate responsibility are essential. Companies must build balance sheets to survive downturns.
> 
> #3) At some point the debt will have to be paid back or written off and it is not like we have a balanced budget. $21Trn, don't know where I got $10 from btw is revenue not profit, why? We don't have profit. Being insolvent is not a good place to be for a person, company or country.
> 
> #4) I hate how we arbitrarily send checks. If you are worried about people then extend unemployment but paying $600 per week was insane. People earned more staying home (not all but many). I am OK extending unemployment but not issuing $1,400 to those who don't even need it. How is that remotely logical?
> 
> What other questions do you have?
Click to expand...

I appreciate the direct answers but I think you are avoiding drilling in on the roots of your concerns.... If you want to understand cause and effect of how spending money effects the value of the dollar then looking at history is very useful. You are claiming that printing money devalues the dollar. History is not showing that so can you provide your reasoning for saying thats what's happening and explain why the numbers don't support that claim?

We don't have profit because we deficit spend which some economists think is the proper way to manage a growing economy.


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## Slade3200

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Click to expand...
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Click to expand...
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
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> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
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> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
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> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> Click to expand...
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> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
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> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
> 
> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
> 
> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And since they admit it is they should be stuck with the bill
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unfortunately WE are all stuck with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes all republicans voted no on it whereas 59% of republicans said they needed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lie. Republicans said they needed certain aspects of it not the full $1.9Trn...I did the math earlier. We needed about $200Bn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The republicans wanted 5x that. Y’all are using different math. Did the republicans want the bill to be 80% pork?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I hated the GOP version. Hated it! I am not a Republican. I am an Independent. Trump and I disagree vehemently on debt and it’s uses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you think the republicans wanted 80% pork that wasn’t related to Covid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Idk...didn’t see their plan. But probably. Democrats and Republicans are equally inept when it comes to balancing the budget. Democrats are just a little worse and their social justice mantra is ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm curious. If we could pay off all of the national debt right now do you think that would be a smart thing to do and put our economy in a better position?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. Some debt is fine. Our GDP is ~$10trn? But going 3x that is crazy IMO and this isn’t the last of it as Biden will do a giant infrastructure spend bill. Do you see the money we can print as infinite? Just curious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we need to have our currency and economy intelligently managed so no I don't think it is infinite, but I also think that many people don't understand the differences between our national budget and personal budgets. They are very different.
> 
> Our GDP was over $21T in 2019 not $10T. Does that change anything for you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We should never be more than 1.5x. That’s serious leverage. We will be close to 2x post infrastructure bill. I just believe in a balanced budget and holding people accountable aka no more rescue plans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How are we going to be close to 2x? I'm not seeing that. Our GDP is at $20T... we aren't even close to spending $40T... What numbers are you looking at?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We are at $28? How much will the infrastructure spend be? Green New Deal? You’re looking at another $5trn? And I think 1.5x is the Max I d be comfortable with and that’s $36trn and we will be there before the end of Bidens presidency. Wanna bet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> $28 Trillion?! Where did you get that? Last I checked the 2021 deficit was projected at a bit over $2 Trillion... Roughly, $21T of incoming and $23T of outgoing. Where are you getting your numbers from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Current debt $23.5Trn...add $2rn and we are at $25.5Trn...bye FYE'21 I believe we will be at $28trn...keep in mind we aren't making a profit, we are adding to the deficit. So if we lose $2trn per year, thats $8Trn + interest, you're looking at ~$36Trn by the end of Biden's term and that is BEFORE he spends on infrastructure and green projects. Never said spend $40Trn...I said total debt would be $40Trn...and you don't care? Why?
Click to expand...

Well now you are forecasting 4 years out and not including GDP growth. This current bill has a phase plan that lasts years, it doesn't dump 1.9T into the economy at once. Neither would any other plan being past. So you have to consider the actual deficit which includes GDP growth.

Much of this bill is geared towards stimulating spending and growing employment that has all been depressed because of COVID, thats is where GDP comes from. You call it a waste but those are the factors that drives and grows our economy. Stagnation is what kills economies. You understand that right?


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## AzogtheDefiler

Slade3200 said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
> 
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> 
> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> www.ceifx.com
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> 
> Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?
> 
> Historical Chart of Dollar Index:
> View attachment 465877
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If not for China I would be somewhat agnostic. But China is trying to take over as the world currency and if it does it will be very bad for our economy. They are a major threat and control the majority of manufacturing. Plus it is just bad practice to bail out companies. I always Tel my clients to build a balance sheet for rainy days. But why bother if the Govt will always come to your rescue? Many cities pension plans are underfunded and the cure? Print more money. It’s a terrible practice in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, I understand, I used to and still somewhat do feel the same way, however after diving into some of the questions that I've been asking you my thinking is evolving. Care to address the things I've been asking you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> #1) I don't want to compare today to 20 years ago as China is nipping at our heels and wasn't back then. So I addressed that.
> 
> #2) I think when we devalue money by just printing it we are not holding citizens accountable. Is the next step college debt forgiveness? I think personal and corporate responsibility are essential. Companies must build balance sheets to survive downturns.
> 
> #3) At some point the debt will have to be paid back or written off and it is not like we have a balanced budget. $21Trn, don't know where I got $10 from btw is revenue not profit, why? We don't have profit. Being insolvent is not a good place to be for a person, company or country.
> 
> #4) I hate how we arbitrarily send checks. If you are worried about people then extend unemployment but paying $600 per week was insane. People earned more staying home (not all but many). I am OK extending unemployment but not issuing $1,400 to those who don't even need it. How is that remotely logical?
> 
> What other questions do you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the direct answers but I think you are avoiding drilling in on the roots of your concerns.... If you want to understand cause and effect of how spending money effects the value of the dollar then looking at history is very useful. You are claiming that printing money devalues the dollar. History is not showing that so can you provide your reasoning for saying thats what's happening and explain why the numbers don't support that claim?
> 
> We don't have profit because we deficit spend which some economists think is the proper way to manage a growing economy.
Click to expand...

History yes, but we also didn't have a plague and people weren't prepared. You don't see China as a threat to the US and the $? IMF already uses the yuan as currency. Because its a Global Plague, people still see the $ as safest but we'll see what happens once the plague is put down. Too much debt is bad, especially when we cannot balance the budget and just keep adding to it.


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## AzogtheDefiler

Slade3200 said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
> 
> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
> 
> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And since they admit it is they should be stuck with the bill
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Unfortunately WE are all stuck with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes all republicans voted no on it whereas 59% of republicans said they needed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lie. Republicans said they needed certain aspects of it not the full $1.9Trn...I did the math earlier. We needed about $200Bn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The republicans wanted 5x that. Y’all are using different math. Did the republicans want the bill to be 80% pork?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I hated the GOP version. Hated it! I am not a Republican. I am an Independent. Trump and I disagree vehemently on debt and it’s uses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you think the republicans wanted 80% pork that wasn’t related to Covid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Idk...didn’t see their plan. But probably. Democrats and Republicans are equally inept when it comes to balancing the budget. Democrats are just a little worse and their social justice mantra is ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> I'm curious. If we could pay off all of the national debt right now do you think that would be a smart thing to do and put our economy in a better position?
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> Click to expand...
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> No. Some debt is fine. Our GDP is ~$10trn? But going 3x that is crazy IMO and this isn’t the last of it as Biden will do a giant infrastructure spend bill. Do you see the money we can print as infinite? Just curious.
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> Click to expand...
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> I think we need to have our currency and economy intelligently managed so no I don't think it is infinite, but I also think that many people don't understand the differences between our national budget and personal budgets. They are very different.
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> Our GDP was over $21T in 2019 not $10T. Does that change anything for you?
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> Click to expand...
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> We should never be more than 1.5x. That’s serious leverage. We will be close to 2x post infrastructure bill. I just believe in a balanced budget and holding people accountable aka no more rescue plans.
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> Click to expand...
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> How are we going to be close to 2x? I'm not seeing that. Our GDP is at $20T... we aren't even close to spending $40T... What numbers are you looking at?
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> We are at $28? How much will the infrastructure spend be? Green New Deal? You’re looking at another $5trn? And I think 1.5x is the Max I d be comfortable with and that’s $36trn and we will be there before the end of Bidens presidency. Wanna bet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> $28 Trillion?! Where did you get that? Last I checked the 2021 deficit was projected at a bit over $2 Trillion... Roughly, $21T of incoming and $23T of outgoing. Where are you getting your numbers from?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Current debt $23.5Trn...add $2rn and we are at $25.5Trn...bye FYE'21 I believe we will be at $28trn...keep in mind we aren't making a profit, we are adding to the deficit. So if we lose $2trn per year, thats $8Trn + interest, you're looking at ~$36Trn by the end of Biden's term and that is BEFORE he spends on infrastructure and green projects. Never said spend $40Trn...I said total debt would be $40Trn...and you don't care? Why?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Well now you are forecasting 4 years out and not including GDP growth. This current bill has a phase plan that lasts years, it doesn't dump 1.9T into the economy at once. Neither would any other plan being past. So you have to consider the actual deficit which includes GDP growth.
> 
> Much of this bill is geared towards stimulating spending and growing employment that has all been depressed because of COVID, thats is where GDP comes from. You call it a waste but those are the factors that drives and grows our economy. Stagnation is what kills economies. You understand that right?
Click to expand...

Did the Bush spend help stimulate growth? So, do we have bet? $36Trn by the time Biden's first term ends? Gentleman's bet?


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## Slade3200

AzogtheDefiler said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
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> Click to expand...
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> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
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> Click to expand...
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> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
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> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
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> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> Click to expand...
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> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
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> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
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> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
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> 
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> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
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> Click to expand...
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> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
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> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> Click to expand...
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> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
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> Click to expand...
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> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
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> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
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> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> www.ceifx.com
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> Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?
> 
> Historical Chart of Dollar Index:
> View attachment 465877
> 
> Click to expand...
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> If not for China I would be somewhat agnostic. But China is trying to take over as the world currency and if it does it will be very bad for our economy. They are a major threat and control the majority of manufacturing. Plus it is just bad practice to bail out companies. I always Tel my clients to build a balance sheet for rainy days. But why bother if the Govt will always come to your rescue? Many cities pension plans are underfunded and the cure? Print more money. It’s a terrible practice in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, I understand, I used to and still somewhat do feel the same way, however after diving into some of the questions that I've been asking you my thinking is evolving. Care to address the things I've been asking you?
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> #1) I don't want to compare today to 20 years ago as China is nipping at our heels and wasn't back then. So I addressed that.
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> #2) I think when we devalue money by just printing it we are not holding citizens accountable. Is the next step college debt forgiveness? I think personal and corporate responsibility are essential. Companies must build balance sheets to survive downturns.
> 
> #3) At some point the debt will have to be paid back or written off and it is not like we have a balanced budget. $21Trn, don't know where I got $10 from btw is revenue not profit, why? We don't have profit. Being insolvent is not a good place to be for a person, company or country.
> 
> #4) I hate how we arbitrarily send checks. If you are worried about people then extend unemployment but paying $600 per week was insane. People earned more staying home (not all but many). I am OK extending unemployment but not issuing $1,400 to those who don't even need it. How is that remotely logical?
> 
> What other questions do you have?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the direct answers but I think you are avoiding drilling in on the roots of your concerns.... If you want to understand cause and effect of how spending money effects the value of the dollar then looking at history is very useful. You are claiming that printing money devalues the dollar. History is not showing that so can you provide your reasoning for saying thats what's happening and explain why the numbers don't support that claim?
> 
> We don't have profit because we deficit spend which some economists think is the proper way to manage a growing economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> History yes, but we also didn't have a plague and people weren't prepared. You don't see China as a threat to the US and the $? IMF already uses the yuan as currency. Because its a Global Plague, people still see the $ as safest but we'll see what happens once the plague is put down. Too much debt is bad, especially when we cannot balance the budget and just keep adding to it.
Click to expand...

Yes I see China as a threat but you are pointing to a factor that doesn't seem to exist or effect the situation with China. You are worried that spending devalues the dollar and helps Chinas position. But history isn't showing that spending devalues the dollar. Stagnation devalues the dollar. This is what I'm trying to drill down on. 

Too much debt is bad... Why? what examples can you show where the debt has effected the value of the dollar or our position as a world superpower?


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## Slade3200

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Click to expand...
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Click to expand...
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> Click to expand...
> 
> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
> 
> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
> 
> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
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> Click to expand...
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> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
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> Click to expand...
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> And since they admit it is they should be stuck with the bill
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> Click to expand...
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> Unfortunately WE are all stuck with it.
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> Click to expand...
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> 
> yes all republicans voted no on it whereas 59% of republicans said they needed it.
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> Click to expand...
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> Lie. Republicans said they needed certain aspects of it not the full $1.9Trn...I did the math earlier. We needed about $200Bn.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> The republicans wanted 5x that. Y’all are using different math. Did the republicans want the bill to be 80% pork?
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> Click to expand...
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> I hated the GOP version. Hated it! I am not a Republican. I am an Independent. Trump and I disagree vehemently on debt and it’s uses.
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> Click to expand...
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> Did you think the republicans wanted 80% pork that wasn’t related to Covid?
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> Click to expand...
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> Idk...didn’t see their plan. But probably. Democrats and Republicans are equally inept when it comes to balancing the budget. Democrats are just a little worse and their social justice mantra is ridiculous.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm curious. If we could pay off all of the national debt right now do you think that would be a smart thing to do and put our economy in a better position?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No. Some debt is fine. Our GDP is ~$10trn? But going 3x that is crazy IMO and this isn’t the last of it as Biden will do a giant infrastructure spend bill. Do you see the money we can print as infinite? Just curious.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we need to have our currency and economy intelligently managed so no I don't think it is infinite, but I also think that many people don't understand the differences between our national budget and personal budgets. They are very different.
> 
> Our GDP was over $21T in 2019 not $10T. Does that change anything for you?
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> Click to expand...
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> We should never be more than 1.5x. That’s serious leverage. We will be close to 2x post infrastructure bill. I just believe in a balanced budget and holding people accountable aka no more rescue plans.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> How are we going to be close to 2x? I'm not seeing that. Our GDP is at $20T... we aren't even close to spending $40T... What numbers are you looking at?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> We are at $28? How much will the infrastructure spend be? Green New Deal? You’re looking at another $5trn? And I think 1.5x is the Max I d be comfortable with and that’s $36trn and we will be there before the end of Bidens presidency. Wanna bet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> $28 Trillion?! Where did you get that? Last I checked the 2021 deficit was projected at a bit over $2 Trillion... Roughly, $21T of incoming and $23T of outgoing. Where are you getting your numbers from?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Current debt $23.5Trn...add $2rn and we are at $25.5Trn...bye FYE'21 I believe we will be at $28trn...keep in mind we aren't making a profit, we are adding to the deficit. So if we lose $2trn per year, thats $8Trn + interest, you're looking at ~$36Trn by the end of Biden's term and that is BEFORE he spends on infrastructure and green projects. Never said spend $40Trn...I said total debt would be $40Trn...and you don't care? Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well now you are forecasting 4 years out and not including GDP growth. This current bill has a phase plan that lasts years, it doesn't dump 1.9T into the economy at once. Neither would any other plan being past. So you have to consider the actual deficit which includes GDP growth.
> 
> Much of this bill is geared towards stimulating spending and growing employment that has all been depressed because of COVID, thats is where GDP comes from. You call it a waste but those are the factors that drives and grows our economy. Stagnation is what kills economies. You understand that right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did the Bush spend help stimulate growth? So, do we have bet? $36Trn by the time Biden's first term ends? Gentleman's bet?
Click to expand...

Sure I'll make a bet... What do you think the GDP will be?


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## AzogtheDefiler

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
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> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
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> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
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> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
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> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
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> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
> 
> 
> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ceifx.com
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?
> 
> Historical Chart of Dollar Index:
> View attachment 465877
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If not for China I would be somewhat agnostic. But China is trying to take over as the world currency and if it does it will be very bad for our economy. They are a major threat and control the majority of manufacturing. Plus it is just bad practice to bail out companies. I always Tel my clients to build a balance sheet for rainy days. But why bother if the Govt will always come to your rescue? Many cities pension plans are underfunded and the cure? Print more money. It’s a terrible practice in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, I understand, I used to and still somewhat do feel the same way, however after diving into some of the questions that I've been asking you my thinking is evolving. Care to address the things I've been asking you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> #1) I don't want to compare today to 20 years ago as China is nipping at our heels and wasn't back then. So I addressed that.
> 
> #2) I think when we devalue money by just printing it we are not holding citizens accountable. Is the next step college debt forgiveness? I think personal and corporate responsibility are essential. Companies must build balance sheets to survive downturns.
> 
> #3) At some point the debt will have to be paid back or written off and it is not like we have a balanced budget. $21Trn, don't know where I got $10 from btw is revenue not profit, why? We don't have profit. Being insolvent is not a good place to be for a person, company or country.
> 
> #4) I hate how we arbitrarily send checks. If you are worried about people then extend unemployment but paying $600 per week was insane. People earned more staying home (not all but many). I am OK extending unemployment but not issuing $1,400 to those who don't even need it. How is that remotely logical?
> 
> What other questions do you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the direct answers but I think you are avoiding drilling in on the roots of your concerns.... If you want to understand cause and effect of how spending money effects the value of the dollar then looking at history is very useful. You are claiming that printing money devalues the dollar. History is not showing that so can you provide your reasoning for saying thats what's happening and explain why the numbers don't support that claim?
> 
> We don't have profit because we deficit spend which some economists think is the proper way to manage a growing economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> History yes, but we also didn't have a plague and people weren't prepared. You don't see China as a threat to the US and the $? IMF already uses the yuan as currency. Because its a Global Plague, people still see the $ as safest but we'll see what happens once the plague is put down. Too much debt is bad, especially when we cannot balance the budget and just keep adding to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes I see China as a threat but you are pointing to a factor that doesn't seem to exist or effect the situation with China. You are worried that spending devalues the dollar and helps Chinas position. But history isn't showing that spending devalues the dollar. Stagnation devalues the dollar. This is what I'm trying to drill down on.
> 
> Too much debt is bad... Why? what examples can you show where the debt has effected the value of the dollar or our position as a world superpower?
Click to expand...

Because we have to pay it back and interest expense becomes a burden as rates rise, meaning we cannot allocate those monies elsewhere and hence our deficit remains. Again, you're looking at the past but we are living in the present that has deviated from the past on many occasions. The world is vastly different now. So if China overtakes us, what will we say? History never showed us it could do it?!?! What happened? I mean, that is crazy, right?


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## AzogtheDefiler

Slade3200 said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
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> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
> 
> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
> 
> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
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> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And since they admit it is they should be stuck with the bill
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> Click to expand...
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> Unfortunately WE are all stuck with it.
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> Click to expand...
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> 
> yes all republicans voted no on it whereas 59% of republicans said they needed it.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Lie. Republicans said they needed certain aspects of it not the full $1.9Trn...I did the math earlier. We needed about $200Bn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The republicans wanted 5x that. Y’all are using different math. Did the republicans want the bill to be 80% pork?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I hated the GOP version. Hated it! I am not a Republican. I am an Independent. Trump and I disagree vehemently on debt and it’s uses.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you think the republicans wanted 80% pork that wasn’t related to Covid?
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> Click to expand...
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> Idk...didn’t see their plan. But probably. Democrats and Republicans are equally inept when it comes to balancing the budget. Democrats are just a little worse and their social justice mantra is ridiculous.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm curious. If we could pay off all of the national debt right now do you think that would be a smart thing to do and put our economy in a better position?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No. Some debt is fine. Our GDP is ~$10trn? But going 3x that is crazy IMO and this isn’t the last of it as Biden will do a giant infrastructure spend bill. Do you see the money we can print as infinite? Just curious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we need to have our currency and economy intelligently managed so no I don't think it is infinite, but I also think that many people don't understand the differences between our national budget and personal budgets. They are very different.
> 
> Our GDP was over $21T in 2019 not $10T. Does that change anything for you?
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> Click to expand...
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> We should never be more than 1.5x. That’s serious leverage. We will be close to 2x post infrastructure bill. I just believe in a balanced budget and holding people accountable aka no more rescue plans.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> How are we going to be close to 2x? I'm not seeing that. Our GDP is at $20T... we aren't even close to spending $40T... What numbers are you looking at?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> We are at $28? How much will the infrastructure spend be? Green New Deal? You’re looking at another $5trn? And I think 1.5x is the Max I d be comfortable with and that’s $36trn and we will be there before the end of Bidens presidency. Wanna bet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> $28 Trillion?! Where did you get that? Last I checked the 2021 deficit was projected at a bit over $2 Trillion... Roughly, $21T of incoming and $23T of outgoing. Where are you getting your numbers from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Current debt $23.5Trn...add $2rn and we are at $25.5Trn...bye FYE'21 I believe we will be at $28trn...keep in mind we aren't making a profit, we are adding to the deficit. So if we lose $2trn per year, thats $8Trn + interest, you're looking at ~$36Trn by the end of Biden's term and that is BEFORE he spends on infrastructure and green projects. Never said spend $40Trn...I said total debt would be $40Trn...and you don't care? Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well now you are forecasting 4 years out and not including GDP growth. This current bill has a phase plan that lasts years, it doesn't dump 1.9T into the economy at once. Neither would any other plan being past. So you have to consider the actual deficit which includes GDP growth.
> 
> Much of this bill is geared towards stimulating spending and growing employment that has all been depressed because of COVID, thats is where GDP comes from. You call it a waste but those are the factors that drives and grows our economy. Stagnation is what kills economies. You understand that right?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Did the Bush spend help stimulate growth? So, do we have bet? $36Trn by the time Biden's first term ends? Gentleman's bet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure I'll make a bet... What do you think the GDP will be?
Click to expand...

$23Trn...maybe. Tough to predict.


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## BlackSand

Penelope said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
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> Lie. Republicans said they needed certain aspects of it not the full $1.9Trn...I did the math earlier. We needed about $200Bn.
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> 
> Nearly 7 in 10 Americans support the Biden administration's proposed $1.9 trillion stimulus relief bill in response to the coronavirus pandemic, as 68 percent say they support it and 24 percent oppose it.
> 
> Democrats support it 97 - 3 percent, independents support it 68 - 25 percent and Republicans are opposed 47 - 37 percent, with 16 percent not offering an opinion.
> National (US) Poll - February 3, 2021 - 61% Optimistic About Next Four | Quinnipiac University Connecticut
> -----------------------------
> the maj or republican's disagree with you.
Click to expand...


9 of 10 Americans firmly believe that taking a healthy dose of rat poison will eliminate your concerns regarding the COVID Virus, and/or need for Relief ... 

.


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## Slade3200

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
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> 
> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> www.ceifx.com
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> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?
> 
> Historical Chart of Dollar Index:
> View attachment 465877
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If not for China I would be somewhat agnostic. But China is trying to take over as the world currency and if it does it will be very bad for our economy. They are a major threat and control the majority of manufacturing. Plus it is just bad practice to bail out companies. I always Tel my clients to build a balance sheet for rainy days. But why bother if the Govt will always come to your rescue? Many cities pension plans are underfunded and the cure? Print more money. It’s a terrible practice in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, I understand, I used to and still somewhat do feel the same way, however after diving into some of the questions that I've been asking you my thinking is evolving. Care to address the things I've been asking you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> #1) I don't want to compare today to 20 years ago as China is nipping at our heels and wasn't back then. So I addressed that.
> 
> #2) I think when we devalue money by just printing it we are not holding citizens accountable. Is the next step college debt forgiveness? I think personal and corporate responsibility are essential. Companies must build balance sheets to survive downturns.
> 
> #3) At some point the debt will have to be paid back or written off and it is not like we have a balanced budget. $21Trn, don't know where I got $10 from btw is revenue not profit, why? We don't have profit. Being insolvent is not a good place to be for a person, company or country.
> 
> #4) I hate how we arbitrarily send checks. If you are worried about people then extend unemployment but paying $600 per week was insane. People earned more staying home (not all but many). I am OK extending unemployment but not issuing $1,400 to those who don't even need it. How is that remotely logical?
> 
> What other questions do you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the direct answers but I think you are avoiding drilling in on the roots of your concerns.... If you want to understand cause and effect of how spending money effects the value of the dollar then looking at history is very useful. You are claiming that printing money devalues the dollar. History is not showing that so can you provide your reasoning for saying thats what's happening and explain why the numbers don't support that claim?
> 
> We don't have profit because we deficit spend which some economists think is the proper way to manage a growing economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> History yes, but we also didn't have a plague and people weren't prepared. You don't see China as a threat to the US and the $? IMF already uses the yuan as currency. Because its a Global Plague, people still see the $ as safest but we'll see what happens once the plague is put down. Too much debt is bad, especially when we cannot balance the budget and just keep adding to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes I see China as a threat but you are pointing to a factor that doesn't seem to exist or effect the situation with China. You are worried that spending devalues the dollar and helps Chinas position. But history isn't showing that spending devalues the dollar. Stagnation devalues the dollar. This is what I'm trying to drill down on.
> 
> Too much debt is bad... Why? what examples can you show where the debt has effected the value of the dollar or our position as a world superpower?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because we have to pay it back and interest expense becomes a burden as rates rise, meaning we cannot allocate those monies elsewhere and hence our deficit remains. Again, you're looking at the past but we are living in the present that has deviated from the past on many occasions. The world is vastly different now. So if China overtakes us, what will we say? History never showed us it could do it?!?! What happened? I mean, that is crazy, right?
Click to expand...

This economic system of ours (fiat) has been used since the 1800's. China has been using it for over 1000 years. So yes looking at how printing and borrowing has effected the value of currency is very relevant. If you can't find an example of how the two effect each other in our history then perhaps the premise of your argument is incorrect. Also when has paying back the debt raised rates?  It seems like the opposite has happened. Rates are at an all time low... This is because earning interest has become replaced by the promotion of spending and investment. The focus as been on the flow of currency which is key to a strong economy and strong currency. The more thats out there the bigger the potential output. The output is dependent on transactions and flow.  Its different than how you manage your businesses budget and debt. You get that right?


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## Slade3200

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The economy was bouncing back on its own, we still  have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
> 
> "Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
> 
> A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
> 
> "These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
> 
> PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this back
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And since they admit it is they should be stuck with the bill
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unfortunately WE are all stuck with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes all republicans voted no on it whereas 59% of republicans said they needed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lie. Republicans said they needed certain aspects of it not the full $1.9Trn...I did the math earlier. We needed about $200Bn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The republicans wanted 5x that. Y’all are using different math. Did the republicans want the bill to be 80% pork?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I hated the GOP version. Hated it! I am not a Republican. I am an Independent. Trump and I disagree vehemently on debt and it’s uses.
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> Did you think the republicans wanted 80% pork that wasn’t related to Covid?
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> Idk...didn’t see their plan. But probably. Democrats and Republicans are equally inept when it comes to balancing the budget. Democrats are just a little worse and their social justice mantra is ridiculous.
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> I'm curious. If we could pay off all of the national debt right now do you think that would be a smart thing to do and put our economy in a better position?
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> No. Some debt is fine. Our GDP is ~$10trn? But going 3x that is crazy IMO and this isn’t the last of it as Biden will do a giant infrastructure spend bill. Do you see the money we can print as infinite? Just curious.
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> I think we need to have our currency and economy intelligently managed so no I don't think it is infinite, but I also think that many people don't understand the differences between our national budget and personal budgets. They are very different.
> 
> Our GDP was over $21T in 2019 not $10T. Does that change anything for you?
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> We should never be more than 1.5x. That’s serious leverage. We will be close to 2x post infrastructure bill. I just believe in a balanced budget and holding people accountable aka no more rescue plans.
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> How are we going to be close to 2x? I'm not seeing that. Our GDP is at $20T... we aren't even close to spending $40T... What numbers are you looking at?
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> We are at $28? How much will the infrastructure spend be? Green New Deal? You’re looking at another $5trn? And I think 1.5x is the Max I d be comfortable with and that’s $36trn and we will be there before the end of Bidens presidency. Wanna bet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> $28 Trillion?! Where did you get that? Last I checked the 2021 deficit was projected at a bit over $2 Trillion... Roughly, $21T of incoming and $23T of outgoing. Where are you getting your numbers from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Current debt $23.5Trn...add $2rn and we are at $25.5Trn...bye FYE'21 I believe we will be at $28trn...keep in mind we aren't making a profit, we are adding to the deficit. So if we lose $2trn per year, thats $8Trn + interest, you're looking at ~$36Trn by the end of Biden's term and that is BEFORE he spends on infrastructure and green projects. Never said spend $40Trn...I said total debt would be $40Trn...and you don't care? Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well now you are forecasting 4 years out and not including GDP growth. This current bill has a phase plan that lasts years, it doesn't dump 1.9T into the economy at once. Neither would any other plan being past. So you have to consider the actual deficit which includes GDP growth.
> 
> Much of this bill is geared towards stimulating spending and growing employment that has all been depressed because of COVID, thats is where GDP comes from. You call it a waste but those are the factors that drives and grows our economy. Stagnation is what kills economies. You understand that right?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Did the Bush spend help stimulate growth? So, do we have bet? $36Trn by the time Biden's first term ends? Gentleman's bet?
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> 
> Sure I'll make a bet... What do you think the GDP will be?
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> 
> $23Trn...maybe. Tough to predict.
Click to expand...

Ok so you think we are going to have $23T GDP and $36T debt in 4 years, thats a 1.56 debt to GDP ratio. I think we are going to have $24T GDP and $28T debt, thats a 1.17 ratio... So lets split the difference.... 

Lets do a $32T debt, I'll take the under you take the over.  And lets do a 1.36 debt to GDP ratio. I'll take the under and you take the over.  Sound good?


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## AzogtheDefiler

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> 
> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
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> 
> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
> 
> 
> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> 
> www.ceifx.com
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> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?
> 
> Historical Chart of Dollar Index:
> View attachment 465877
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If not for China I would be somewhat agnostic. But China is trying to take over as the world currency and if it does it will be very bad for our economy. They are a major threat and control the majority of manufacturing. Plus it is just bad practice to bail out companies. I always Tel my clients to build a balance sheet for rainy days. But why bother if the Govt will always come to your rescue? Many cities pension plans are underfunded and the cure? Print more money. It’s a terrible practice in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, I understand, I used to and still somewhat do feel the same way, however after diving into some of the questions that I've been asking you my thinking is evolving. Care to address the things I've been asking you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> #1) I don't want to compare today to 20 years ago as China is nipping at our heels and wasn't back then. So I addressed that.
> 
> #2) I think when we devalue money by just printing it we are not holding citizens accountable. Is the next step college debt forgiveness? I think personal and corporate responsibility are essential. Companies must build balance sheets to survive downturns.
> 
> #3) At some point the debt will have to be paid back or written off and it is not like we have a balanced budget. $21Trn, don't know where I got $10 from btw is revenue not profit, why? We don't have profit. Being insolvent is not a good place to be for a person, company or country.
> 
> #4) I hate how we arbitrarily send checks. If you are worried about people then extend unemployment but paying $600 per week was insane. People earned more staying home (not all but many). I am OK extending unemployment but not issuing $1,400 to those who don't even need it. How is that remotely logical?
> 
> What other questions do you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the direct answers but I think you are avoiding drilling in on the roots of your concerns.... If you want to understand cause and effect of how spending money effects the value of the dollar then looking at history is very useful. You are claiming that printing money devalues the dollar. History is not showing that so can you provide your reasoning for saying thats what's happening and explain why the numbers don't support that claim?
> 
> We don't have profit because we deficit spend which some economists think is the proper way to manage a growing economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> History yes, but we also didn't have a plague and people weren't prepared. You don't see China as a threat to the US and the $? IMF already uses the yuan as currency. Because its a Global Plague, people still see the $ as safest but we'll see what happens once the plague is put down. Too much debt is bad, especially when we cannot balance the budget and just keep adding to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes I see China as a threat but you are pointing to a factor that doesn't seem to exist or effect the situation with China. You are worried that spending devalues the dollar and helps Chinas position. But history isn't showing that spending devalues the dollar. Stagnation devalues the dollar. This is what I'm trying to drill down on.
> 
> Too much debt is bad... Why? what examples can you show where the debt has effected the value of the dollar or our position as a world superpower?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because we have to pay it back and interest expense becomes a burden as rates rise, meaning we cannot allocate those monies elsewhere and hence our deficit remains. Again, you're looking at the past but we are living in the present that has deviated from the past on many occasions. The world is vastly different now. So if China overtakes us, what will we say? History never showed us it could do it?!?! What happened? I mean, that is crazy, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This economic system of ours (fiat) has been used since the 1800's. China has been using it for over 1000 years. So yes looking at how printing and borrowing has effected the value of currency is very relevant. If you can't find an example of how the two effect each other in our history then perhaps the premise of your argument is incorrect. Also when has paying back the debt raised rates?  It seems like the opposite has happened. Rates are at an all time low... This is because earning interest has become replaced by the promotion of spending and investment. The focus as been on the flow of currency which is key to a strong economy and strong currency. The more thats out there the bigger the potential output. The output is dependent on transactions and flow.  Its different than how you manage your businesses budget and debt. You get that right?
Click to expand...

Rates will rise once the plague is behind us and we have to pay interest expense you keep avoiding that. Interest expense will become a much larger % of our budget and then how are we ever to turn a surplus. A QB never won 7 rings before. It happened. If our currency is no longer the global currency we have major issues. History is just that. Doesn’t always predict the future.


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## Slade3200

AzogtheDefiler said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Click to expand...
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
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> Click to expand...
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> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> Click to expand...
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> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
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> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> Click to expand...
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> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> Click to expand...
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
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> Click to expand...
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> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
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> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
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> 
> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> 
> www.ceifx.com
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> 
> Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?
> 
> Historical Chart of Dollar Index:
> View attachment 465877
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If not for China I would be somewhat agnostic. But China is trying to take over as the world currency and if it does it will be very bad for our economy. They are a major threat and control the majority of manufacturing. Plus it is just bad practice to bail out companies. I always Tel my clients to build a balance sheet for rainy days. But why bother if the Govt will always come to your rescue? Many cities pension plans are underfunded and the cure? Print more money. It’s a terrible practice in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, I understand, I used to and still somewhat do feel the same way, however after diving into some of the questions that I've been asking you my thinking is evolving. Care to address the things I've been asking you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> #1) I don't want to compare today to 20 years ago as China is nipping at our heels and wasn't back then. So I addressed that.
> 
> #2) I think when we devalue money by just printing it we are not holding citizens accountable. Is the next step college debt forgiveness? I think personal and corporate responsibility are essential. Companies must build balance sheets to survive downturns.
> 
> #3) At some point the debt will have to be paid back or written off and it is not like we have a balanced budget. $21Trn, don't know where I got $10 from btw is revenue not profit, why? We don't have profit. Being insolvent is not a good place to be for a person, company or country.
> 
> #4) I hate how we arbitrarily send checks. If you are worried about people then extend unemployment but paying $600 per week was insane. People earned more staying home (not all but many). I am OK extending unemployment but not issuing $1,400 to those who don't even need it. How is that remotely logical?
> 
> What other questions do you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the direct answers but I think you are avoiding drilling in on the roots of your concerns.... If you want to understand cause and effect of how spending money effects the value of the dollar then looking at history is very useful. You are claiming that printing money devalues the dollar. History is not showing that so can you provide your reasoning for saying thats what's happening and explain why the numbers don't support that claim?
> 
> We don't have profit because we deficit spend which some economists think is the proper way to manage a growing economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> History yes, but we also didn't have a plague and people weren't prepared. You don't see China as a threat to the US and the $? IMF already uses the yuan as currency. Because its a Global Plague, people still see the $ as safest but we'll see what happens once the plague is put down. Too much debt is bad, especially when we cannot balance the budget and just keep adding to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes I see China as a threat but you are pointing to a factor that doesn't seem to exist or effect the situation with China. You are worried that spending devalues the dollar and helps Chinas position. But history isn't showing that spending devalues the dollar. Stagnation devalues the dollar. This is what I'm trying to drill down on.
> 
> Too much debt is bad... Why? what examples can you show where the debt has effected the value of the dollar or our position as a world superpower?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because we have to pay it back and interest expense becomes a burden as rates rise, meaning we cannot allocate those monies elsewhere and hence our deficit remains. Again, you're looking at the past but we are living in the present that has deviated from the past on many occasions. The world is vastly different now. So if China overtakes us, what will we say? History never showed us it could do it?!?! What happened? I mean, that is crazy, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This economic system of ours (fiat) has been used since the 1800's. China has been using it for over 1000 years. So yes looking at how printing and borrowing has effected the value of currency is very relevant. If you can't find an example of how the two effect each other in our history then perhaps the premise of your argument is incorrect. Also when has paying back the debt raised rates?  It seems like the opposite has happened. Rates are at an all time low... This is because earning interest has become replaced by the promotion of spending and investment. The focus as been on the flow of currency which is key to a strong economy and strong currency. The more thats out there the bigger the potential output. The output is dependent on transactions and flow.  Its different than how you manage your businesses budget and debt. You get that right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rates will rise once the plague is behind us and we have to pay interest expense you keep avoiding that. Interest expense will become a much larger % of our budget and then how are we ever to turn a surplus. A QB never won 7 rings before. It happened. If our currency is no longer the global currency we have major issues. History is just that. Doesn’t always predict the future.
Click to expand...

Why do you want to turn a surplus?

We are talking about cause and effect. You are saying that certain actions lead to specific results but you can't show any examples of it happening. Perhaps you can explain the theory of why you think it will happen then


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## AzogtheDefiler

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
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> Click to expand...
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> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
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> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
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> Click to expand...
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> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
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> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
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> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
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> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
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> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
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> Click to expand...
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> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
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> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
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> Click to expand...
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> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
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> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
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> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
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> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
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> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
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> Click to expand...
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> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
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> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
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> 
> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> www.ceifx.com
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> 
> Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?
> 
> Historical Chart of Dollar Index:
> View attachment 465877
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If not for China I would be somewhat agnostic. But China is trying to take over as the world currency and if it does it will be very bad for our economy. They are a major threat and control the majority of manufacturing. Plus it is just bad practice to bail out companies. I always Tel my clients to build a balance sheet for rainy days. But why bother if the Govt will always come to your rescue? Many cities pension plans are underfunded and the cure? Print more money. It’s a terrible practice in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, I understand, I used to and still somewhat do feel the same way, however after diving into some of the questions that I've been asking you my thinking is evolving. Care to address the things I've been asking you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> #1) I don't want to compare today to 20 years ago as China is nipping at our heels and wasn't back then. So I addressed that.
> 
> #2) I think when we devalue money by just printing it we are not holding citizens accountable. Is the next step college debt forgiveness? I think personal and corporate responsibility are essential. Companies must build balance sheets to survive downturns.
> 
> #3) At some point the debt will have to be paid back or written off and it is not like we have a balanced budget. $21Trn, don't know where I got $10 from btw is revenue not profit, why? We don't have profit. Being insolvent is not a good place to be for a person, company or country.
> 
> #4) I hate how we arbitrarily send checks. If you are worried about people then extend unemployment but paying $600 per week was insane. People earned more staying home (not all but many). I am OK extending unemployment but not issuing $1,400 to those who don't even need it. How is that remotely logical?
> 
> What other questions do you have?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the direct answers but I think you are avoiding drilling in on the roots of your concerns.... If you want to understand cause and effect of how spending money effects the value of the dollar then looking at history is very useful. You are claiming that printing money devalues the dollar. History is not showing that so can you provide your reasoning for saying thats what's happening and explain why the numbers don't support that claim?
> 
> We don't have profit because we deficit spend which some economists think is the proper way to manage a growing economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> History yes, but we also didn't have a plague and people weren't prepared. You don't see China as a threat to the US and the $? IMF already uses the yuan as currency. Because its a Global Plague, people still see the $ as safest but we'll see what happens once the plague is put down. Too much debt is bad, especially when we cannot balance the budget and just keep adding to it.
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> Click to expand...
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> Yes I see China as a threat but you are pointing to a factor that doesn't seem to exist or effect the situation with China. You are worried that spending devalues the dollar and helps Chinas position. But history isn't showing that spending devalues the dollar. Stagnation devalues the dollar. This is what I'm trying to drill down on.
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> Too much debt is bad... Why? what examples can you show where the debt has effected the value of the dollar or our position as a world superpower?
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> Because we have to pay it back and interest expense becomes a burden as rates rise, meaning we cannot allocate those monies elsewhere and hence our deficit remains. Again, you're looking at the past but we are living in the present that has deviated from the past on many occasions. The world is vastly different now. So if China overtakes us, what will we say? History never showed us it could do it?!?! What happened? I mean, that is crazy, right?
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> 
> This economic system of ours (fiat) has been used since the 1800's. China has been using it for over 1000 years. So yes looking at how printing and borrowing has effected the value of currency is very relevant. If you can't find an example of how the two effect each other in our history then perhaps the premise of your argument is incorrect. Also when has paying back the debt raised rates?  It seems like the opposite has happened. Rates are at an all time low... This is because earning interest has become replaced by the promotion of spending and investment. The focus as been on the flow of currency which is key to a strong economy and strong currency. The more thats out there the bigger the potential output. The output is dependent on transactions and flow.  Its different than how you manage your businesses budget and debt. You get that right?
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> Rates will rise once the plague is behind us and we have to pay interest expense you keep avoiding that. Interest expense will become a much larger % of our budget and then how are we ever to turn a surplus. A QB never won 7 rings before. It happened. If our currency is no longer the global currency we have major issues. History is just that. Doesn’t always predict the future.
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> Why do you want to turn a surplus?
> 
> We are talking about cause and effect. You are saying that certain actions lead to specific results but you can't show any examples of it happening. Perhaps you can explain the theory of why you think it will happen then
Click to expand...

Because it is China's intent. So you want to run a deficit forever? What level of debt would be too much in your view? In 2020 we spent 5% on interest expense. What % would be too high in your view? Again, rates are at historic lows but they will rise. If there is ever a decline in demand for US treasuries we are in serious trouble. Right now we remain the safest investment but we have a lot of unrest in America and way too much debt IMO. Borrowing costs will slow growth because we are allocating monies to paying interest vs. other areas of need.

China is making its move









						How China Will Take Over The World
					

The People’s Bank of China (PBOC) is only a few months away from launching the digital version of the Chinese Yuan, making China the first country in the world to have a digital central bank currency.




					www.forbes.com
				











						Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
					

The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI




					www.ceifx.com
				











						Dollar Hegemony Is Under Fire From China’s Rapid Growth Recovery
					

China’s light-speed recovery from the pandemic has reignited the perennial debate about how long the dollar’s 50-year dominance of global markets can persist.




					www.bloomberg.com


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
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> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
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> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
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> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
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> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
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> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
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> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
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> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
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> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
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> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
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> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
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> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
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> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
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> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
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> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
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> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
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> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
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> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
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> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
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> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
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> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
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> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
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> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
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> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
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> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
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> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
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> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
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> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
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> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
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> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
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> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
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> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
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> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
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> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
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> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
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> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
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> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> www.ceifx.com
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> Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?
> 
> Historical Chart of Dollar Index:
> View attachment 465877
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> Click to expand...
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> If not for China I would be somewhat agnostic. But China is trying to take over as the world currency and if it does it will be very bad for our economy. They are a major threat and control the majority of manufacturing. Plus it is just bad practice to bail out companies. I always Tel my clients to build a balance sheet for rainy days. But why bother if the Govt will always come to your rescue? Many cities pension plans are underfunded and the cure? Print more money. It’s a terrible practice in my view.
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> Click to expand...
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> Ok, I understand, I used to and still somewhat do feel the same way, however after diving into some of the questions that I've been asking you my thinking is evolving. Care to address the things I've been asking you?
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> #1) I don't want to compare today to 20 years ago as China is nipping at our heels and wasn't back then. So I addressed that.
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> #2) I think when we devalue money by just printing it we are not holding citizens accountable. Is the next step college debt forgiveness? I think personal and corporate responsibility are essential. Companies must build balance sheets to survive downturns.
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> #3) At some point the debt will have to be paid back or written off and it is not like we have a balanced budget. $21Trn, don't know where I got $10 from btw is revenue not profit, why? We don't have profit. Being insolvent is not a good place to be for a person, company or country.
> 
> #4) I hate how we arbitrarily send checks. If you are worried about people then extend unemployment but paying $600 per week was insane. People earned more staying home (not all but many). I am OK extending unemployment but not issuing $1,400 to those who don't even need it. How is that remotely logical?
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> What other questions do you have?
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> Click to expand...
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> I appreciate the direct answers but I think you are avoiding drilling in on the roots of your concerns.... If you want to understand cause and effect of how spending money effects the value of the dollar then looking at history is very useful. You are claiming that printing money devalues the dollar. History is not showing that so can you provide your reasoning for saying thats what's happening and explain why the numbers don't support that claim?
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> We don't have profit because we deficit spend which some economists think is the proper way to manage a growing economy.
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> History yes, but we also didn't have a plague and people weren't prepared. You don't see China as a threat to the US and the $? IMF already uses the yuan as currency. Because its a Global Plague, people still see the $ as safest but we'll see what happens once the plague is put down. Too much debt is bad, especially when we cannot balance the budget and just keep adding to it.
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> Click to expand...
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> Yes I see China as a threat but you are pointing to a factor that doesn't seem to exist or effect the situation with China. You are worried that spending devalues the dollar and helps Chinas position. But history isn't showing that spending devalues the dollar. Stagnation devalues the dollar. This is what I'm trying to drill down on.
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> Too much debt is bad... Why? what examples can you show where the debt has effected the value of the dollar or our position as a world superpower?
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> Click to expand...
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> Because we have to pay it back and interest expense becomes a burden as rates rise, meaning we cannot allocate those monies elsewhere and hence our deficit remains. Again, you're looking at the past but we are living in the present that has deviated from the past on many occasions. The world is vastly different now. So if China overtakes us, what will we say? History never showed us it could do it?!?! What happened? I mean, that is crazy, right?
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> This economic system of ours (fiat) has been used since the 1800's. China has been using it for over 1000 years. So yes looking at how printing and borrowing has effected the value of currency is very relevant. If you can't find an example of how the two effect each other in our history then perhaps the premise of your argument is incorrect. Also when has paying back the debt raised rates?  It seems like the opposite has happened. Rates are at an all time low... This is because earning interest has become replaced by the promotion of spending and investment. The focus as been on the flow of currency which is key to a strong economy and strong currency. The more thats out there the bigger the potential output. The output is dependent on transactions and flow.  Its different than how you manage your businesses budget and debt. You get that right?
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> Rates will rise once the plague is behind us and we have to pay interest expense you keep avoiding that. Interest expense will become a much larger % of our budget and then how are we ever to turn a surplus. A QB never won 7 rings before. It happened. If our currency is no longer the global currency we have major issues. History is just that. Doesn’t always predict the future.
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> Why do you want to turn a surplus?
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> We are talking about cause and effect. You are saying that certain actions lead to specific results but you can't show any examples of it happening. Perhaps you can explain the theory of why you think it will happen then
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> Because it is China's intent. So you want to run a deficit forever? What level of debt would be too much in your view? In 2020 we spent 5% on interest expense. What % would be too high in your view? Again, rates are at historic lows but they will rise. If there is ever a decline in demand for US treasuries we are in serious trouble. Right now we remain the safest investment but we have a lot of unrest in America and way too much debt IMO. Borrowing costs will slow growth because we are allocating monies to paying interest vs. other areas of need.
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> China is making its move
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> How China Will Take Over The World
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> The People’s Bank of China (PBOC) is only a few months away from launching the digital version of the Chinese Yuan, making China the first country in the world to have a digital central bank currency.
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> Dollar Hegemony Is Under Fire From China’s Rapid Growth Recovery
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> www.bloomberg.com
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I think its probably a good thing to look at why China is taking over. Is it because they are spending less and paying off their debt or because they are producing more and investing more all over the world?? Think about it.

I'll be honest, I'm not an expert on the economy. I'm good with numbers but I'll admit when I started digging into this subject a few years ago I found that the more I learned the more ass backwards my thinking was before I studied it. I used the make the same arguments that you're making right now. But the economics of a national economy with its own sovereign currency is a beast to understand and I still have a long way to go.  With that said I'll try to address your questions...

Right now I don't see the harm in running deficits especially with China nipping at our heels. If we ran a surplus that would simply burn money out of the economy and weaken our stronghold. The best thing we can do is invest and stimulate others to conduct commerce using US dollars. The dollar is currently a safe investment because it is used everywhere. It is used everywhere  because people are borrowing and spending and investing in it. Those who own it will protect it.


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## AzogtheDefiler

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
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> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
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> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
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> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
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> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
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> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
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> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
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> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
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> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
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> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
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> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
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> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
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> Click to expand...
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> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
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> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
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> Click to expand...
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> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
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> Click to expand...
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> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
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> Click to expand...
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> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
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> Click to expand...
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> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> Click to expand...
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> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
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> Click to expand...
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> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
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> Click to expand...
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> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
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> Click to expand...
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> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
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> Click to expand...
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> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
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> Click to expand...
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> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
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> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
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> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> www.ceifx.com
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> Click to expand...
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> Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?
> 
> Historical Chart of Dollar Index:
> View attachment 465877
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If not for China I would be somewhat agnostic. But China is trying to take over as the world currency and if it does it will be very bad for our economy. They are a major threat and control the majority of manufacturing. Plus it is just bad practice to bail out companies. I always Tel my clients to build a balance sheet for rainy days. But why bother if the Govt will always come to your rescue? Many cities pension plans are underfunded and the cure? Print more money. It’s a terrible practice in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, I understand, I used to and still somewhat do feel the same way, however after diving into some of the questions that I've been asking you my thinking is evolving. Care to address the things I've been asking you?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> #1) I don't want to compare today to 20 years ago as China is nipping at our heels and wasn't back then. So I addressed that.
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> #2) I think when we devalue money by just printing it we are not holding citizens accountable. Is the next step college debt forgiveness? I think personal and corporate responsibility are essential. Companies must build balance sheets to survive downturns.
> 
> #3) At some point the debt will have to be paid back or written off and it is not like we have a balanced budget. $21Trn, don't know where I got $10 from btw is revenue not profit, why? We don't have profit. Being insolvent is not a good place to be for a person, company or country.
> 
> #4) I hate how we arbitrarily send checks. If you are worried about people then extend unemployment but paying $600 per week was insane. People earned more staying home (not all but many). I am OK extending unemployment but not issuing $1,400 to those who don't even need it. How is that remotely logical?
> 
> What other questions do you have?
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> Click to expand...
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> I appreciate the direct answers but I think you are avoiding drilling in on the roots of your concerns.... If you want to understand cause and effect of how spending money effects the value of the dollar then looking at history is very useful. You are claiming that printing money devalues the dollar. History is not showing that so can you provide your reasoning for saying thats what's happening and explain why the numbers don't support that claim?
> 
> We don't have profit because we deficit spend which some economists think is the proper way to manage a growing economy.
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> Click to expand...
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> History yes, but we also didn't have a plague and people weren't prepared. You don't see China as a threat to the US and the $? IMF already uses the yuan as currency. Because its a Global Plague, people still see the $ as safest but we'll see what happens once the plague is put down. Too much debt is bad, especially when we cannot balance the budget and just keep adding to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes I see China as a threat but you are pointing to a factor that doesn't seem to exist or effect the situation with China. You are worried that spending devalues the dollar and helps Chinas position. But history isn't showing that spending devalues the dollar. Stagnation devalues the dollar. This is what I'm trying to drill down on.
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> Too much debt is bad... Why? what examples can you show where the debt has effected the value of the dollar or our position as a world superpower?
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> Click to expand...
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> Because we have to pay it back and interest expense becomes a burden as rates rise, meaning we cannot allocate those monies elsewhere and hence our deficit remains. Again, you're looking at the past but we are living in the present that has deviated from the past on many occasions. The world is vastly different now. So if China overtakes us, what will we say? History never showed us it could do it?!?! What happened? I mean, that is crazy, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This economic system of ours (fiat) has been used since the 1800's. China has been using it for over 1000 years. So yes looking at how printing and borrowing has effected the value of currency is very relevant. If you can't find an example of how the two effect each other in our history then perhaps the premise of your argument is incorrect. Also when has paying back the debt raised rates?  It seems like the opposite has happened. Rates are at an all time low... This is because earning interest has become replaced by the promotion of spending and investment. The focus as been on the flow of currency which is key to a strong economy and strong currency. The more thats out there the bigger the potential output. The output is dependent on transactions and flow.  Its different than how you manage your businesses budget and debt. You get that right?
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> Click to expand...
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> Rates will rise once the plague is behind us and we have to pay interest expense you keep avoiding that. Interest expense will become a much larger % of our budget and then how are we ever to turn a surplus. A QB never won 7 rings before. It happened. If our currency is no longer the global currency we have major issues. History is just that. Doesn’t always predict the future.
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> Click to expand...
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> Why do you want to turn a surplus?
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> We are talking about cause and effect. You are saying that certain actions lead to specific results but you can't show any examples of it happening. Perhaps you can explain the theory of why you think it will happen then
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Because it is China's intent. So you want to run a deficit forever? What level of debt would be too much in your view? In 2020 we spent 5% on interest expense. What % would be too high in your view? Again, rates are at historic lows but they will rise. If there is ever a decline in demand for US treasuries we are in serious trouble. Right now we remain the safest investment but we have a lot of unrest in America and way too much debt IMO. Borrowing costs will slow growth because we are allocating monies to paying interest vs. other areas of need.
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> China is making its move
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> How China Will Take Over The World
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> The People’s Bank of China (PBOC) is only a few months away from launching the digital version of the Chinese Yuan, making China the first country in the world to have a digital central bank currency.
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> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> Dollar Hegemony Is Under Fire From China’s Rapid Growth Recovery
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> China’s light-speed recovery from the pandemic has reignited the perennial debate about how long the dollar’s 50-year dominance of global markets can persist.
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> I think its probably a good thing to look at why China is taking over. Is it because they are spending less and paying off their debt or because they are producing more and investing more all over the world?? Think about it.
> 
> I'll be honest, I'm not an expert on the economy. I'm good with numbers but I'll admit when I started digging into this subject a few years ago I found that the more I learned the more ass backwards my thinking was before I studied it. I used the make the same arguments that you're making right now. But the economics of a national economy with its own sovereign currency is a beast to understand and I still have a long way to go.  With that said I'll try to address your questions...
> 
> Right now I don't see the harm in running deficits especially with China nipping at our heels. If we ran a surplus that would simply burn money out of the economy and weaken our stronghold. The best thing we can do is invest and stimulate others to conduct commerce using US dollars. The dollar is currently a safe investment because it is used everywhere. It is used everywhere  because people are borrowing and spending and investing in it. Those who own it will protect it.
Click to expand...

Safe until it isn't. You didn't answer me. What level of debt would make you uncomfortable?


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## Slade3200

AzogtheDefiler said:


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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
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> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
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> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
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> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> www.ceifx.com
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?
> 
> Historical Chart of Dollar Index:
> View attachment 465877
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If not for China I would be somewhat agnostic. But China is trying to take over as the world currency and if it does it will be very bad for our economy. They are a major threat and control the majority of manufacturing. Plus it is just bad practice to bail out companies. I always Tel my clients to build a balance sheet for rainy days. But why bother if the Govt will always come to your rescue? Many cities pension plans are underfunded and the cure? Print more money. It’s a terrible practice in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, I understand, I used to and still somewhat do feel the same way, however after diving into some of the questions that I've been asking you my thinking is evolving. Care to address the things I've been asking you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> #1) I don't want to compare today to 20 years ago as China is nipping at our heels and wasn't back then. So I addressed that.
> 
> #2) I think when we devalue money by just printing it we are not holding citizens accountable. Is the next step college debt forgiveness? I think personal and corporate responsibility are essential. Companies must build balance sheets to survive downturns.
> 
> #3) At some point the debt will have to be paid back or written off and it is not like we have a balanced budget. $21Trn, don't know where I got $10 from btw is revenue not profit, why? We don't have profit. Being insolvent is not a good place to be for a person, company or country.
> 
> #4) I hate how we arbitrarily send checks. If you are worried about people then extend unemployment but paying $600 per week was insane. People earned more staying home (not all but many). I am OK extending unemployment but not issuing $1,400 to those who don't even need it. How is that remotely logical?
> 
> What other questions do you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the direct answers but I think you are avoiding drilling in on the roots of your concerns.... If you want to understand cause and effect of how spending money effects the value of the dollar then looking at history is very useful. You are claiming that printing money devalues the dollar. History is not showing that so can you provide your reasoning for saying thats what's happening and explain why the numbers don't support that claim?
> 
> We don't have profit because we deficit spend which some economists think is the proper way to manage a growing economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> History yes, but we also didn't have a plague and people weren't prepared. You don't see China as a threat to the US and the $? IMF already uses the yuan as currency. Because its a Global Plague, people still see the $ as safest but we'll see what happens once the plague is put down. Too much debt is bad, especially when we cannot balance the budget and just keep adding to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes I see China as a threat but you are pointing to a factor that doesn't seem to exist or effect the situation with China. You are worried that spending devalues the dollar and helps Chinas position. But history isn't showing that spending devalues the dollar. Stagnation devalues the dollar. This is what I'm trying to drill down on.
> 
> Too much debt is bad... Why? what examples can you show where the debt has effected the value of the dollar or our position as a world superpower?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because we have to pay it back and interest expense becomes a burden as rates rise, meaning we cannot allocate those monies elsewhere and hence our deficit remains. Again, you're looking at the past but we are living in the present that has deviated from the past on many occasions. The world is vastly different now. So if China overtakes us, what will we say? History never showed us it could do it?!?! What happened? I mean, that is crazy, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This economic system of ours (fiat) has been used since the 1800's. China has been using it for over 1000 years. So yes looking at how printing and borrowing has effected the value of currency is very relevant. If you can't find an example of how the two effect each other in our history then perhaps the premise of your argument is incorrect. Also when has paying back the debt raised rates?  It seems like the opposite has happened. Rates are at an all time low... This is because earning interest has become replaced by the promotion of spending and investment. The focus as been on the flow of currency which is key to a strong economy and strong currency. The more thats out there the bigger the potential output. The output is dependent on transactions and flow.  Its different than how you manage your businesses budget and debt. You get that right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rates will rise once the plague is behind us and we have to pay interest expense you keep avoiding that. Interest expense will become a much larger % of our budget and then how are we ever to turn a surplus. A QB never won 7 rings before. It happened. If our currency is no longer the global currency we have major issues. History is just that. Doesn’t always predict the future.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you want to turn a surplus?
> 
> We are talking about cause and effect. You are saying that certain actions lead to specific results but you can't show any examples of it happening. Perhaps you can explain the theory of why you think it will happen then
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because it is China's intent. So you want to run a deficit forever? What level of debt would be too much in your view? In 2020 we spent 5% on interest expense. What % would be too high in your view? Again, rates are at historic lows but they will rise. If there is ever a decline in demand for US treasuries we are in serious trouble. Right now we remain the safest investment but we have a lot of unrest in America and way too much debt IMO. Borrowing costs will slow growth because we are allocating monies to paying interest vs. other areas of need.
> 
> China is making its move
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> How China Will Take Over The World
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> The People’s Bank of China (PBOC) is only a few months away from launching the digital version of the Chinese Yuan, making China the first country in the world to have a digital central bank currency.
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> Dollar Hegemony Is Under Fire From China’s Rapid Growth Recovery
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> China’s light-speed recovery from the pandemic has reignited the perennial debate about how long the dollar’s 50-year dominance of global markets can persist.
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> I think its probably a good thing to look at why China is taking over. Is it because they are spending less and paying off their debt or because they are producing more and investing more all over the world?? Think about it.
> 
> I'll be honest, I'm not an expert on the economy. I'm good with numbers but I'll admit when I started digging into this subject a few years ago I found that the more I learned the more ass backwards my thinking was before I studied it. I used the make the same arguments that you're making right now. But the economics of a national economy with its own sovereign currency is a beast to understand and I still have a long way to go.  With that said I'll try to address your questions...
> 
> Right now I don't see the harm in running deficits especially with China nipping at our heels. If we ran a surplus that would simply burn money out of the economy and weaken our stronghold. The best thing we can do is invest and stimulate others to conduct commerce using US dollars. The dollar is currently a safe investment because it is used everywhere. It is used everywhere  because people are borrowing and spending and investing in it. Those who own it will protect it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Safe until it isn't. You didn't answer me. What level of debt would make you uncomfortable?
Click to expand...

To understand what makes it unsafe you need to know the cause and effects. So if you don’t understand how debt effects value then how do you know the risk and what’s leading it to be unsafe? That’s what I’m trying to get into with you. I don’t have an answer for what level of debt would make me uncomfortable. I admittedly don’t have that level of understanding of of how all elements work, yet but I’m working on it. Like I said before my understanding of how financials work within my business and my personal life are very very different from how it works in a national economy. That’s why digging into these questions that I’m asking you is important.


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## AzogtheDefiler

Slade3200 said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
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> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
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> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
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> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
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> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
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> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
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> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
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> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
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> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
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> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
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> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
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> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
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> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
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> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
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> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
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> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
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> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
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> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
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> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
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> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
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> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
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> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
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> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
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> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
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> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
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> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
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> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
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> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
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> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
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> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
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> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
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> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
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> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
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> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
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> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
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> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
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> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?
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> Historical Chart of Dollar Index:
> View attachment 465877
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> If not for China I would be somewhat agnostic. But China is trying to take over as the world currency and if it does it will be very bad for our economy. They are a major threat and control the majority of manufacturing. Plus it is just bad practice to bail out companies. I always Tel my clients to build a balance sheet for rainy days. But why bother if the Govt will always come to your rescue? Many cities pension plans are underfunded and the cure? Print more money. It’s a terrible practice in my view.
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> Click to expand...
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> Ok, I understand, I used to and still somewhat do feel the same way, however after diving into some of the questions that I've been asking you my thinking is evolving. Care to address the things I've been asking you?
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> Click to expand...
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> #1) I don't want to compare today to 20 years ago as China is nipping at our heels and wasn't back then. So I addressed that.
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> #2) I think when we devalue money by just printing it we are not holding citizens accountable. Is the next step college debt forgiveness? I think personal and corporate responsibility are essential. Companies must build balance sheets to survive downturns.
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> #3) At some point the debt will have to be paid back or written off and it is not like we have a balanced budget. $21Trn, don't know where I got $10 from btw is revenue not profit, why? We don't have profit. Being insolvent is not a good place to be for a person, company or country.
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> #4) I hate how we arbitrarily send checks. If you are worried about people then extend unemployment but paying $600 per week was insane. People earned more staying home (not all but many). I am OK extending unemployment but not issuing $1,400 to those who don't even need it. How is that remotely logical?
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> What other questions do you have?
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> I appreciate the direct answers but I think you are avoiding drilling in on the roots of your concerns.... If you want to understand cause and effect of how spending money effects the value of the dollar then looking at history is very useful. You are claiming that printing money devalues the dollar. History is not showing that so can you provide your reasoning for saying thats what's happening and explain why the numbers don't support that claim?
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> We don't have profit because we deficit spend which some economists think is the proper way to manage a growing economy.
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> History yes, but we also didn't have a plague and people weren't prepared. You don't see China as a threat to the US and the $? IMF already uses the yuan as currency. Because its a Global Plague, people still see the $ as safest but we'll see what happens once the plague is put down. Too much debt is bad, especially when we cannot balance the budget and just keep adding to it.
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> Yes I see China as a threat but you are pointing to a factor that doesn't seem to exist or effect the situation with China. You are worried that spending devalues the dollar and helps Chinas position. But history isn't showing that spending devalues the dollar. Stagnation devalues the dollar. This is what I'm trying to drill down on.
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> Too much debt is bad... Why? what examples can you show where the debt has effected the value of the dollar or our position as a world superpower?
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> Click to expand...
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> Because we have to pay it back and interest expense becomes a burden as rates rise, meaning we cannot allocate those monies elsewhere and hence our deficit remains. Again, you're looking at the past but we are living in the present that has deviated from the past on many occasions. The world is vastly different now. So if China overtakes us, what will we say? History never showed us it could do it?!?! What happened? I mean, that is crazy, right?
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> This economic system of ours (fiat) has been used since the 1800's. China has been using it for over 1000 years. So yes looking at how printing and borrowing has effected the value of currency is very relevant. If you can't find an example of how the two effect each other in our history then perhaps the premise of your argument is incorrect. Also when has paying back the debt raised rates?  It seems like the opposite has happened. Rates are at an all time low... This is because earning interest has become replaced by the promotion of spending and investment. The focus as been on the flow of currency which is key to a strong economy and strong currency. The more thats out there the bigger the potential output. The output is dependent on transactions and flow.  Its different than how you manage your businesses budget and debt. You get that right?
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> Rates will rise once the plague is behind us and we have to pay interest expense you keep avoiding that. Interest expense will become a much larger % of our budget and then how are we ever to turn a surplus. A QB never won 7 rings before. It happened. If our currency is no longer the global currency we have major issues. History is just that. Doesn’t always predict the future.
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> Why do you want to turn a surplus?
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> We are talking about cause and effect. You are saying that certain actions lead to specific results but you can't show any examples of it happening. Perhaps you can explain the theory of why you think it will happen then
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> Because it is China's intent. So you want to run a deficit forever? What level of debt would be too much in your view? In 2020 we spent 5% on interest expense. What % would be too high in your view? Again, rates are at historic lows but they will rise. If there is ever a decline in demand for US treasuries we are in serious trouble. Right now we remain the safest investment but we have a lot of unrest in America and way too much debt IMO. Borrowing costs will slow growth because we are allocating monies to paying interest vs. other areas of need.
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> China is making its move
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> How China Will Take Over The World
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> The People’s Bank of China (PBOC) is only a few months away from launching the digital version of the Chinese Yuan, making China the first country in the world to have a digital central bank currency.
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> Dollar Hegemony Is Under Fire From China’s Rapid Growth Recovery
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> I think its probably a good thing to look at why China is taking over. Is it because they are spending less and paying off their debt or because they are producing more and investing more all over the world?? Think about it.
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> I'll be honest, I'm not an expert on the economy. I'm good with numbers but I'll admit when I started digging into this subject a few years ago I found that the more I learned the more ass backwards my thinking was before I studied it. I used the make the same arguments that you're making right now. But the economics of a national economy with its own sovereign currency is a beast to understand and I still have a long way to go.  With that said I'll try to address your questions...
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> Right now I don't see the harm in running deficits especially with China nipping at our heels. If we ran a surplus that would simply burn money out of the economy and weaken our stronghold. The best thing we can do is invest and stimulate others to conduct commerce using US dollars. The dollar is currently a safe investment because it is used everywhere. It is used everywhere  because people are borrowing and spending and investing in it. Those who own it will protect it.
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> Click to expand...
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> Safe until it isn't. You didn't answer me. What level of debt would make you uncomfortable?
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> To understand what makes it unsafe you need to know the cause and effects. So if you don’t understand how debt effects value then how do you know the risk and what’s leading it to be unsafe? That’s what I’m trying to get into with you. I don’t have an answer for what level of debt would make me uncomfortable. I admittedly don’t have that level of understanding of of how all elements work, yet but I’m working on it. Like I said before my understanding of how financials work within my business and my personal life are very very different from how it works in a national economy. That’s why digging into these questions that I’m asking you is important.
Click to expand...

Well we have to pay interest expense and the more debt we accumulate the higher that amount is and if other countries perceive we may default it will send us into a tailspin.


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## Slade3200

AzogtheDefiler said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
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> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
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> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
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> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
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> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
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> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
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> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
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> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
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> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
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> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
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> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
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> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
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> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
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> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
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> Click to expand...
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> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
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> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
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> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
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> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
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> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
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> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
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> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
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> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
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> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
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> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
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> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
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> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
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> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
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> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
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> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
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> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
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> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
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> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
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> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
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> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
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> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
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> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
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> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> www.ceifx.com
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> Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?
> 
> Historical Chart of Dollar Index:
> View attachment 465877
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> Click to expand...
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> If not for China I would be somewhat agnostic. But China is trying to take over as the world currency and if it does it will be very bad for our economy. They are a major threat and control the majority of manufacturing. Plus it is just bad practice to bail out companies. I always Tel my clients to build a balance sheet for rainy days. But why bother if the Govt will always come to your rescue? Many cities pension plans are underfunded and the cure? Print more money. It’s a terrible practice in my view.
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> Click to expand...
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> Ok, I understand, I used to and still somewhat do feel the same way, however after diving into some of the questions that I've been asking you my thinking is evolving. Care to address the things I've been asking you?
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> Click to expand...
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> #1) I don't want to compare today to 20 years ago as China is nipping at our heels and wasn't back then. So I addressed that.
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> #2) I think when we devalue money by just printing it we are not holding citizens accountable. Is the next step college debt forgiveness? I think personal and corporate responsibility are essential. Companies must build balance sheets to survive downturns.
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> #3) At some point the debt will have to be paid back or written off and it is not like we have a balanced budget. $21Trn, don't know where I got $10 from btw is revenue not profit, why? We don't have profit. Being insolvent is not a good place to be for a person, company or country.
> 
> #4) I hate how we arbitrarily send checks. If you are worried about people then extend unemployment but paying $600 per week was insane. People earned more staying home (not all but many). I am OK extending unemployment but not issuing $1,400 to those who don't even need it. How is that remotely logical?
> 
> What other questions do you have?
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> Click to expand...
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> I appreciate the direct answers but I think you are avoiding drilling in on the roots of your concerns.... If you want to understand cause and effect of how spending money effects the value of the dollar then looking at history is very useful. You are claiming that printing money devalues the dollar. History is not showing that so can you provide your reasoning for saying thats what's happening and explain why the numbers don't support that claim?
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> We don't have profit because we deficit spend which some economists think is the proper way to manage a growing economy.
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> History yes, but we also didn't have a plague and people weren't prepared. You don't see China as a threat to the US and the $? IMF already uses the yuan as currency. Because its a Global Plague, people still see the $ as safest but we'll see what happens once the plague is put down. Too much debt is bad, especially when we cannot balance the budget and just keep adding to it.
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> Click to expand...
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> Yes I see China as a threat but you are pointing to a factor that doesn't seem to exist or effect the situation with China. You are worried that spending devalues the dollar and helps Chinas position. But history isn't showing that spending devalues the dollar. Stagnation devalues the dollar. This is what I'm trying to drill down on.
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> Too much debt is bad... Why? what examples can you show where the debt has effected the value of the dollar or our position as a world superpower?
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> Click to expand...
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> Because we have to pay it back and interest expense becomes a burden as rates rise, meaning we cannot allocate those monies elsewhere and hence our deficit remains. Again, you're looking at the past but we are living in the present that has deviated from the past on many occasions. The world is vastly different now. So if China overtakes us, what will we say? History never showed us it could do it?!?! What happened? I mean, that is crazy, right?
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> This economic system of ours (fiat) has been used since the 1800's. China has been using it for over 1000 years. So yes looking at how printing and borrowing has effected the value of currency is very relevant. If you can't find an example of how the two effect each other in our history then perhaps the premise of your argument is incorrect. Also when has paying back the debt raised rates?  It seems like the opposite has happened. Rates are at an all time low... This is because earning interest has become replaced by the promotion of spending and investment. The focus as been on the flow of currency which is key to a strong economy and strong currency. The more thats out there the bigger the potential output. The output is dependent on transactions and flow.  Its different than how you manage your businesses budget and debt. You get that right?
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> Rates will rise once the plague is behind us and we have to pay interest expense you keep avoiding that. Interest expense will become a much larger % of our budget and then how are we ever to turn a surplus. A QB never won 7 rings before. It happened. If our currency is no longer the global currency we have major issues. History is just that. Doesn’t always predict the future.
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> Why do you want to turn a surplus?
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> We are talking about cause and effect. You are saying that certain actions lead to specific results but you can't show any examples of it happening. Perhaps you can explain the theory of why you think it will happen then
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> Because it is China's intent. So you want to run a deficit forever? What level of debt would be too much in your view? In 2020 we spent 5% on interest expense. What % would be too high in your view? Again, rates are at historic lows but they will rise. If there is ever a decline in demand for US treasuries we are in serious trouble. Right now we remain the safest investment but we have a lot of unrest in America and way too much debt IMO. Borrowing costs will slow growth because we are allocating monies to paying interest vs. other areas of need.
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> China is making its move
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> How China Will Take Over The World
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> The People’s Bank of China (PBOC) is only a few months away from launching the digital version of the Chinese Yuan, making China the first country in the world to have a digital central bank currency.
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> Dollar Hegemony Is Under Fire From China’s Rapid Growth Recovery
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> China’s light-speed recovery from the pandemic has reignited the perennial debate about how long the dollar’s 50-year dominance of global markets can persist.
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> I think its probably a good thing to look at why China is taking over. Is it because they are spending less and paying off their debt or because they are producing more and investing more all over the world?? Think about it.
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> I'll be honest, I'm not an expert on the economy. I'm good with numbers but I'll admit when I started digging into this subject a few years ago I found that the more I learned the more ass backwards my thinking was before I studied it. I used the make the same arguments that you're making right now. But the economics of a national economy with its own sovereign currency is a beast to understand and I still have a long way to go.  With that said I'll try to address your questions...
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> Right now I don't see the harm in running deficits especially with China nipping at our heels. If we ran a surplus that would simply burn money out of the economy and weaken our stronghold. The best thing we can do is invest and stimulate others to conduct commerce using US dollars. The dollar is currently a safe investment because it is used everywhere. It is used everywhere  because people are borrowing and spending and investing in it. Those who own it will protect it.
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> Click to expand...
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> Safe until it isn't. You didn't answer me. What level of debt would make you uncomfortable?
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> To understand what makes it unsafe you need to know the cause and effects. So if you don’t understand how debt effects value then how do you know the risk and what’s leading it to be unsafe? That’s what I’m trying to get into with you. I don’t have an answer for what level of debt would make me uncomfortable. I admittedly don’t have that level of understanding of of how all elements work, yet but I’m working on it. Like I said before my understanding of how financials work within my business and my personal life are very very different from how it works in a national economy. That’s why digging into these questions that I’m asking you is important.
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> Click to expand...
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> Well we have to pay interest expense and the more debt we accumulate the higher that amount is and if other countries perceive we may default it will send us into a tailspin.
Click to expand...

We can’t default, we control our own currency.


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## AzogtheDefiler

Slade3200 said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
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> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
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> Click to expand...
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> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
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> Click to expand...
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> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
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> Click to expand...
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> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> Click to expand...
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> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
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> Click to expand...
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> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
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> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
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> Click to expand...
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> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
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> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
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> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
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> Click to expand...
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> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
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> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
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> Click to expand...
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> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
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> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
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> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
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> Click to expand...
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> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
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> Click to expand...
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> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
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> Click to expand...
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> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
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> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
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> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
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> Click to expand...
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> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
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> Click to expand...
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> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
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> Click to expand...
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> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
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> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
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> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> www.ceifx.com
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> Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?
> 
> Historical Chart of Dollar Index:
> View attachment 465877
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If not for China I would be somewhat agnostic. But China is trying to take over as the world currency and if it does it will be very bad for our economy. They are a major threat and control the majority of manufacturing. Plus it is just bad practice to bail out companies. I always Tel my clients to build a balance sheet for rainy days. But why bother if the Govt will always come to your rescue? Many cities pension plans are underfunded and the cure? Print more money. It’s a terrible practice in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, I understand, I used to and still somewhat do feel the same way, however after diving into some of the questions that I've been asking you my thinking is evolving. Care to address the things I've been asking you?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> #1) I don't want to compare today to 20 years ago as China is nipping at our heels and wasn't back then. So I addressed that.
> 
> #2) I think when we devalue money by just printing it we are not holding citizens accountable. Is the next step college debt forgiveness? I think personal and corporate responsibility are essential. Companies must build balance sheets to survive downturns.
> 
> #3) At some point the debt will have to be paid back or written off and it is not like we have a balanced budget. $21Trn, don't know where I got $10 from btw is revenue not profit, why? We don't have profit. Being insolvent is not a good place to be for a person, company or country.
> 
> #4) I hate how we arbitrarily send checks. If you are worried about people then extend unemployment but paying $600 per week was insane. People earned more staying home (not all but many). I am OK extending unemployment but not issuing $1,400 to those who don't even need it. How is that remotely logical?
> 
> What other questions do you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the direct answers but I think you are avoiding drilling in on the roots of your concerns.... If you want to understand cause and effect of how spending money effects the value of the dollar then looking at history is very useful. You are claiming that printing money devalues the dollar. History is not showing that so can you provide your reasoning for saying thats what's happening and explain why the numbers don't support that claim?
> 
> We don't have profit because we deficit spend which some economists think is the proper way to manage a growing economy.
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> Click to expand...
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> History yes, but we also didn't have a plague and people weren't prepared. You don't see China as a threat to the US and the $? IMF already uses the yuan as currency. Because its a Global Plague, people still see the $ as safest but we'll see what happens once the plague is put down. Too much debt is bad, especially when we cannot balance the budget and just keep adding to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes I see China as a threat but you are pointing to a factor that doesn't seem to exist or effect the situation with China. You are worried that spending devalues the dollar and helps Chinas position. But history isn't showing that spending devalues the dollar. Stagnation devalues the dollar. This is what I'm trying to drill down on.
> 
> Too much debt is bad... Why? what examples can you show where the debt has effected the value of the dollar or our position as a world superpower?
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> Click to expand...
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> Because we have to pay it back and interest expense becomes a burden as rates rise, meaning we cannot allocate those monies elsewhere and hence our deficit remains. Again, you're looking at the past but we are living in the present that has deviated from the past on many occasions. The world is vastly different now. So if China overtakes us, what will we say? History never showed us it could do it?!?! What happened? I mean, that is crazy, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This economic system of ours (fiat) has been used since the 1800's. China has been using it for over 1000 years. So yes looking at how printing and borrowing has effected the value of currency is very relevant. If you can't find an example of how the two effect each other in our history then perhaps the premise of your argument is incorrect. Also when has paying back the debt raised rates?  It seems like the opposite has happened. Rates are at an all time low... This is because earning interest has become replaced by the promotion of spending and investment. The focus as been on the flow of currency which is key to a strong economy and strong currency. The more thats out there the bigger the potential output. The output is dependent on transactions and flow.  Its different than how you manage your businesses budget and debt. You get that right?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Rates will rise once the plague is behind us and we have to pay interest expense you keep avoiding that. Interest expense will become a much larger % of our budget and then how are we ever to turn a surplus. A QB never won 7 rings before. It happened. If our currency is no longer the global currency we have major issues. History is just that. Doesn’t always predict the future.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you want to turn a surplus?
> 
> We are talking about cause and effect. You are saying that certain actions lead to specific results but you can't show any examples of it happening. Perhaps you can explain the theory of why you think it will happen then
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Because it is China's intent. So you want to run a deficit forever? What level of debt would be too much in your view? In 2020 we spent 5% on interest expense. What % would be too high in your view? Again, rates are at historic lows but they will rise. If there is ever a decline in demand for US treasuries we are in serious trouble. Right now we remain the safest investment but we have a lot of unrest in America and way too much debt IMO. Borrowing costs will slow growth because we are allocating monies to paying interest vs. other areas of need.
> 
> China is making its move
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> How China Will Take Over The World
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> The People’s Bank of China (PBOC) is only a few months away from launching the digital version of the Chinese Yuan, making China the first country in the world to have a digital central bank currency.
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> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> Dollar Hegemony Is Under Fire From China’s Rapid Growth Recovery
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> China’s light-speed recovery from the pandemic has reignited the perennial debate about how long the dollar’s 50-year dominance of global markets can persist.
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> I think its probably a good thing to look at why China is taking over. Is it because they are spending less and paying off their debt or because they are producing more and investing more all over the world?? Think about it.
> 
> I'll be honest, I'm not an expert on the economy. I'm good with numbers but I'll admit when I started digging into this subject a few years ago I found that the more I learned the more ass backwards my thinking was before I studied it. I used the make the same arguments that you're making right now. But the economics of a national economy with its own sovereign currency is a beast to understand and I still have a long way to go.  With that said I'll try to address your questions...
> 
> Right now I don't see the harm in running deficits especially with China nipping at our heels. If we ran a surplus that would simply burn money out of the economy and weaken our stronghold. The best thing we can do is invest and stimulate others to conduct commerce using US dollars. The dollar is currently a safe investment because it is used everywhere. It is used everywhere  because people are borrowing and spending and investing in it. Those who own it will protect it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Safe until it isn't. You didn't answer me. What level of debt would make you uncomfortable?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> To understand what makes it unsafe you need to know the cause and effects. So if you don’t understand how debt effects value then how do you know the risk and what’s leading it to be unsafe? That’s what I’m trying to get into with you. I don’t have an answer for what level of debt would make me uncomfortable. I admittedly don’t have that level of understanding of of how all elements work, yet but I’m working on it. Like I said before my understanding of how financials work within my business and my personal life are very very different from how it works in a national economy. That’s why digging into these questions that I’m asking you is important.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Well we have to pay interest expense and the more debt we accumulate the higher that amount is and if other countries perceive we may default it will send us into a tailspin.
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> Click to expand...
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> We can’t default, we control our own currency.
Click to expand...

Other countries buy our treasuries too. You should watch Too Big to Fail on HBO.


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## initforme

Such a lie.  1400 is not going to affect anybody seeking work.  What a truly false statement.


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## Death Angel

iamwhatiseem said:


> ahead, search back in my post about Trumps Covid stimulus


I wouldnt exactly credit Trump with those covid bills.  He just wanted to get 2,000 to THE PEOPLE. He kinda had a gun to his head to achieve anything close to that.

They were all DEMOCRAT bills.


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## Slade3200

AzogtheDefiler said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Click to expand...
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Click to expand...
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
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> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
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> Click to expand...
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> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
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> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
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> Click to expand...
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> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> Click to expand...
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> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
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> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
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> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
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> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
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> Click to expand...
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> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
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> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
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> Click to expand...
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> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
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> Click to expand...
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> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
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> Click to expand...
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> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
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> Click to expand...
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> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> Click to expand...
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> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
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> Click to expand...
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> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
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> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
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> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> www.ceifx.com
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> 
> Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?
> 
> Historical Chart of Dollar Index:
> View attachment 465877
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If not for China I would be somewhat agnostic. But China is trying to take over as the world currency and if it does it will be very bad for our economy. They are a major threat and control the majority of manufacturing. Plus it is just bad practice to bail out companies. I always Tel my clients to build a balance sheet for rainy days. But why bother if the Govt will always come to your rescue? Many cities pension plans are underfunded and the cure? Print more money. It’s a terrible practice in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, I understand, I used to and still somewhat do feel the same way, however after diving into some of the questions that I've been asking you my thinking is evolving. Care to address the things I've been asking you?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> #1) I don't want to compare today to 20 years ago as China is nipping at our heels and wasn't back then. So I addressed that.
> 
> #2) I think when we devalue money by just printing it we are not holding citizens accountable. Is the next step college debt forgiveness? I think personal and corporate responsibility are essential. Companies must build balance sheets to survive downturns.
> 
> #3) At some point the debt will have to be paid back or written off and it is not like we have a balanced budget. $21Trn, don't know where I got $10 from btw is revenue not profit, why? We don't have profit. Being insolvent is not a good place to be for a person, company or country.
> 
> #4) I hate how we arbitrarily send checks. If you are worried about people then extend unemployment but paying $600 per week was insane. People earned more staying home (not all but many). I am OK extending unemployment but not issuing $1,400 to those who don't even need it. How is that remotely logical?
> 
> What other questions do you have?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the direct answers but I think you are avoiding drilling in on the roots of your concerns.... If you want to understand cause and effect of how spending money effects the value of the dollar then looking at history is very useful. You are claiming that printing money devalues the dollar. History is not showing that so can you provide your reasoning for saying thats what's happening and explain why the numbers don't support that claim?
> 
> We don't have profit because we deficit spend which some economists think is the proper way to manage a growing economy.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> History yes, but we also didn't have a plague and people weren't prepared. You don't see China as a threat to the US and the $? IMF already uses the yuan as currency. Because its a Global Plague, people still see the $ as safest but we'll see what happens once the plague is put down. Too much debt is bad, especially when we cannot balance the budget and just keep adding to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes I see China as a threat but you are pointing to a factor that doesn't seem to exist or effect the situation with China. You are worried that spending devalues the dollar and helps Chinas position. But history isn't showing that spending devalues the dollar. Stagnation devalues the dollar. This is what I'm trying to drill down on.
> 
> Too much debt is bad... Why? what examples can you show where the debt has effected the value of the dollar or our position as a world superpower?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because we have to pay it back and interest expense becomes a burden as rates rise, meaning we cannot allocate those monies elsewhere and hence our deficit remains. Again, you're looking at the past but we are living in the present that has deviated from the past on many occasions. The world is vastly different now. So if China overtakes us, what will we say? History never showed us it could do it?!?! What happened? I mean, that is crazy, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This economic system of ours (fiat) has been used since the 1800's. China has been using it for over 1000 years. So yes looking at how printing and borrowing has effected the value of currency is very relevant. If you can't find an example of how the two effect each other in our history then perhaps the premise of your argument is incorrect. Also when has paying back the debt raised rates?  It seems like the opposite has happened. Rates are at an all time low... This is because earning interest has become replaced by the promotion of spending and investment. The focus as been on the flow of currency which is key to a strong economy and strong currency. The more thats out there the bigger the potential output. The output is dependent on transactions and flow.  Its different than how you manage your businesses budget and debt. You get that right?
> 
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> 
> Rates will rise once the plague is behind us and we have to pay interest expense you keep avoiding that. Interest expense will become a much larger % of our budget and then how are we ever to turn a surplus. A QB never won 7 rings before. It happened. If our currency is no longer the global currency we have major issues. History is just that. Doesn’t always predict the future.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you want to turn a surplus?
> 
> We are talking about cause and effect. You are saying that certain actions lead to specific results but you can't show any examples of it happening. Perhaps you can explain the theory of why you think it will happen then
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Because it is China's intent. So you want to run a deficit forever? What level of debt would be too much in your view? In 2020 we spent 5% on interest expense. What % would be too high in your view? Again, rates are at historic lows but they will rise. If there is ever a decline in demand for US treasuries we are in serious trouble. Right now we remain the safest investment but we have a lot of unrest in America and way too much debt IMO. Borrowing costs will slow growth because we are allocating monies to paying interest vs. other areas of need.
> 
> China is making its move
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> How China Will Take Over The World
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> The People’s Bank of China (PBOC) is only a few months away from launching the digital version of the Chinese Yuan, making China the first country in the world to have a digital central bank currency.
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> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> Dollar Hegemony Is Under Fire From China’s Rapid Growth Recovery
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> China’s light-speed recovery from the pandemic has reignited the perennial debate about how long the dollar’s 50-year dominance of global markets can persist.
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> www.bloomberg.com
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> I think its probably a good thing to look at why China is taking over. Is it because they are spending less and paying off their debt or because they are producing more and investing more all over the world?? Think about it.
> 
> I'll be honest, I'm not an expert on the economy. I'm good with numbers but I'll admit when I started digging into this subject a few years ago I found that the more I learned the more ass backwards my thinking was before I studied it. I used the make the same arguments that you're making right now. But the economics of a national economy with its own sovereign currency is a beast to understand and I still have a long way to go.  With that said I'll try to address your questions...
> 
> Right now I don't see the harm in running deficits especially with China nipping at our heels. If we ran a surplus that would simply burn money out of the economy and weaken our stronghold. The best thing we can do is invest and stimulate others to conduct commerce using US dollars. The dollar is currently a safe investment because it is used everywhere. It is used everywhere  because people are borrowing and spending and investing in it. Those who own it will protect it.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Safe until it isn't. You didn't answer me. What level of debt would make you uncomfortable?
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> 
> To understand what makes it unsafe you need to know the cause and effects. So if you don’t understand how debt effects value then how do you know the risk and what’s leading it to be unsafe? That’s what I’m trying to get into with you. I don’t have an answer for what level of debt would make me uncomfortable. I admittedly don’t have that level of understanding of of how all elements work, yet but I’m working on it. Like I said before my understanding of how financials work within my business and my personal life are very very different from how it works in a national economy. That’s why digging into these questions that I’m asking you is important.
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> Click to expand...
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> Well we have to pay interest expense and the more debt we accumulate the higher that amount is and if other countries perceive we may default it will send us into a tailspin.
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> We can’t default, we control our own currency.
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> Other countries buy our treasuries too. You should watch Too Big to Fail on HBO.
Click to expand...

And what does that have to do with debt and the value of the dollar?


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## AzogtheDefiler

Slade3200 said:


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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
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> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
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> Click to expand...
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> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
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> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
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> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
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> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
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> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
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> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
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> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
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> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
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> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
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> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
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> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
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> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
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> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
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> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
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> 
> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
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> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
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> 
> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
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> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
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> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> www.ceifx.com
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> 
> Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?
> 
> Historical Chart of Dollar Index:
> View attachment 465877
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> Click to expand...
> 
> If not for China I would be somewhat agnostic. But China is trying to take over as the world currency and if it does it will be very bad for our economy. They are a major threat and control the majority of manufacturing. Plus it is just bad practice to bail out companies. I always Tel my clients to build a balance sheet for rainy days. But why bother if the Govt will always come to your rescue? Many cities pension plans are underfunded and the cure? Print more money. It’s a terrible practice in my view.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, I understand, I used to and still somewhat do feel the same way, however after diving into some of the questions that I've been asking you my thinking is evolving. Care to address the things I've been asking you?
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> 
> #1) I don't want to compare today to 20 years ago as China is nipping at our heels and wasn't back then. So I addressed that.
> 
> #2) I think when we devalue money by just printing it we are not holding citizens accountable. Is the next step college debt forgiveness? I think personal and corporate responsibility are essential. Companies must build balance sheets to survive downturns.
> 
> #3) At some point the debt will have to be paid back or written off and it is not like we have a balanced budget. $21Trn, don't know where I got $10 from btw is revenue not profit, why? We don't have profit. Being insolvent is not a good place to be for a person, company or country.
> 
> #4) I hate how we arbitrarily send checks. If you are worried about people then extend unemployment but paying $600 per week was insane. People earned more staying home (not all but many). I am OK extending unemployment but not issuing $1,400 to those who don't even need it. How is that remotely logical?
> 
> What other questions do you have?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the direct answers but I think you are avoiding drilling in on the roots of your concerns.... If you want to understand cause and effect of how spending money effects the value of the dollar then looking at history is very useful. You are claiming that printing money devalues the dollar. History is not showing that so can you provide your reasoning for saying thats what's happening and explain why the numbers don't support that claim?
> 
> We don't have profit because we deficit spend which some economists think is the proper way to manage a growing economy.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> History yes, but we also didn't have a plague and people weren't prepared. You don't see China as a threat to the US and the $? IMF already uses the yuan as currency. Because its a Global Plague, people still see the $ as safest but we'll see what happens once the plague is put down. Too much debt is bad, especially when we cannot balance the budget and just keep adding to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes I see China as a threat but you are pointing to a factor that doesn't seem to exist or effect the situation with China. You are worried that spending devalues the dollar and helps Chinas position. But history isn't showing that spending devalues the dollar. Stagnation devalues the dollar. This is what I'm trying to drill down on.
> 
> Too much debt is bad... Why? what examples can you show where the debt has effected the value of the dollar or our position as a world superpower?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Because we have to pay it back and interest expense becomes a burden as rates rise, meaning we cannot allocate those monies elsewhere and hence our deficit remains. Again, you're looking at the past but we are living in the present that has deviated from the past on many occasions. The world is vastly different now. So if China overtakes us, what will we say? History never showed us it could do it?!?! What happened? I mean, that is crazy, right?
> 
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> 
> This economic system of ours (fiat) has been used since the 1800's. China has been using it for over 1000 years. So yes looking at how printing and borrowing has effected the value of currency is very relevant. If you can't find an example of how the two effect each other in our history then perhaps the premise of your argument is incorrect. Also when has paying back the debt raised rates?  It seems like the opposite has happened. Rates are at an all time low... This is because earning interest has become replaced by the promotion of spending and investment. The focus as been on the flow of currency which is key to a strong economy and strong currency. The more thats out there the bigger the potential output. The output is dependent on transactions and flow.  Its different than how you manage your businesses budget and debt. You get that right?
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> 
> Rates will rise once the plague is behind us and we have to pay interest expense you keep avoiding that. Interest expense will become a much larger % of our budget and then how are we ever to turn a surplus. A QB never won 7 rings before. It happened. If our currency is no longer the global currency we have major issues. History is just that. Doesn’t always predict the future.
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> 
> Why do you want to turn a surplus?
> 
> We are talking about cause and effect. You are saying that certain actions lead to specific results but you can't show any examples of it happening. Perhaps you can explain the theory of why you think it will happen then
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Because it is China's intent. So you want to run a deficit forever? What level of debt would be too much in your view? In 2020 we spent 5% on interest expense. What % would be too high in your view? Again, rates are at historic lows but they will rise. If there is ever a decline in demand for US treasuries we are in serious trouble. Right now we remain the safest investment but we have a lot of unrest in America and way too much debt IMO. Borrowing costs will slow growth because we are allocating monies to paying interest vs. other areas of need.
> 
> China is making its move
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> How China Will Take Over The World
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> The People’s Bank of China (PBOC) is only a few months away from launching the digital version of the Chinese Yuan, making China the first country in the world to have a digital central bank currency.
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> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> Dollar Hegemony Is Under Fire From China’s Rapid Growth Recovery
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> China’s light-speed recovery from the pandemic has reignited the perennial debate about how long the dollar’s 50-year dominance of global markets can persist.
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> I think its probably a good thing to look at why China is taking over. Is it because they are spending less and paying off their debt or because they are producing more and investing more all over the world?? Think about it.
> 
> I'll be honest, I'm not an expert on the economy. I'm good with numbers but I'll admit when I started digging into this subject a few years ago I found that the more I learned the more ass backwards my thinking was before I studied it. I used the make the same arguments that you're making right now. But the economics of a national economy with its own sovereign currency is a beast to understand and I still have a long way to go.  With that said I'll try to address your questions...
> 
> Right now I don't see the harm in running deficits especially with China nipping at our heels. If we ran a surplus that would simply burn money out of the economy and weaken our stronghold. The best thing we can do is invest and stimulate others to conduct commerce using US dollars. The dollar is currently a safe investment because it is used everywhere. It is used everywhere  because people are borrowing and spending and investing in it. Those who own it will protect it.
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> Click to expand...
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> Safe until it isn't. You didn't answer me. What level of debt would make you uncomfortable?
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> 
> To understand what makes it unsafe you need to know the cause and effects. So if you don’t understand how debt effects value then how do you know the risk and what’s leading it to be unsafe? That’s what I’m trying to get into with you. I don’t have an answer for what level of debt would make me uncomfortable. I admittedly don’t have that level of understanding of of how all elements work, yet but I’m working on it. Like I said before my understanding of how financials work within my business and my personal life are very very different from how it works in a national economy. That’s why digging into these questions that I’m asking you is important.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well we have to pay interest expense and the more debt we accumulate the higher that amount is and if other countries perceive we may default it will send us into a tailspin.
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> Click to expand...
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> We can’t default, we control our own currency.
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> Click to expand...
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> Other countries buy our treasuries too. You should watch Too Big to Fail on HBO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And what does that have to do with debt and the value of the dollar?
Click to expand...

Watch and you will see.


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## Slade3200

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
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> 
> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> 
> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> www.ceifx.com
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?
> 
> Historical Chart of Dollar Index:
> View attachment 465877
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If not for China I would be somewhat agnostic. But China is trying to take over as the world currency and if it does it will be very bad for our economy. They are a major threat and control the majority of manufacturing. Plus it is just bad practice to bail out companies. I always Tel my clients to build a balance sheet for rainy days. But why bother if the Govt will always come to your rescue? Many cities pension plans are underfunded and the cure? Print more money. It’s a terrible practice in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, I understand, I used to and still somewhat do feel the same way, however after diving into some of the questions that I've been asking you my thinking is evolving. Care to address the things I've been asking you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> #1) I don't want to compare today to 20 years ago as China is nipping at our heels and wasn't back then. So I addressed that.
> 
> #2) I think when we devalue money by just printing it we are not holding citizens accountable. Is the next step college debt forgiveness? I think personal and corporate responsibility are essential. Companies must build balance sheets to survive downturns.
> 
> #3) At some point the debt will have to be paid back or written off and it is not like we have a balanced budget. $21Trn, don't know where I got $10 from btw is revenue not profit, why? We don't have profit. Being insolvent is not a good place to be for a person, company or country.
> 
> #4) I hate how we arbitrarily send checks. If you are worried about people then extend unemployment but paying $600 per week was insane. People earned more staying home (not all but many). I am OK extending unemployment but not issuing $1,400 to those who don't even need it. How is that remotely logical?
> 
> What other questions do you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the direct answers but I think you are avoiding drilling in on the roots of your concerns.... If you want to understand cause and effect of how spending money effects the value of the dollar then looking at history is very useful. You are claiming that printing money devalues the dollar. History is not showing that so can you provide your reasoning for saying thats what's happening and explain why the numbers don't support that claim?
> 
> We don't have profit because we deficit spend which some economists think is the proper way to manage a growing economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> History yes, but we also didn't have a plague and people weren't prepared. You don't see China as a threat to the US and the $? IMF already uses the yuan as currency. Because its a Global Plague, people still see the $ as safest but we'll see what happens once the plague is put down. Too much debt is bad, especially when we cannot balance the budget and just keep adding to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes I see China as a threat but you are pointing to a factor that doesn't seem to exist or effect the situation with China. You are worried that spending devalues the dollar and helps Chinas position. But history isn't showing that spending devalues the dollar. Stagnation devalues the dollar. This is what I'm trying to drill down on.
> 
> Too much debt is bad... Why? what examples can you show where the debt has effected the value of the dollar or our position as a world superpower?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because we have to pay it back and interest expense becomes a burden as rates rise, meaning we cannot allocate those monies elsewhere and hence our deficit remains. Again, you're looking at the past but we are living in the present that has deviated from the past on many occasions. The world is vastly different now. So if China overtakes us, what will we say? History never showed us it could do it?!?! What happened? I mean, that is crazy, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This economic system of ours (fiat) has been used since the 1800's. China has been using it for over 1000 years. So yes looking at how printing and borrowing has effected the value of currency is very relevant. If you can't find an example of how the two effect each other in our history then perhaps the premise of your argument is incorrect. Also when has paying back the debt raised rates?  It seems like the opposite has happened. Rates are at an all time low... This is because earning interest has become replaced by the promotion of spending and investment. The focus as been on the flow of currency which is key to a strong economy and strong currency. The more thats out there the bigger the potential output. The output is dependent on transactions and flow.  Its different than how you manage your businesses budget and debt. You get that right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rates will rise once the plague is behind us and we have to pay interest expense you keep avoiding that. Interest expense will become a much larger % of our budget and then how are we ever to turn a surplus. A QB never won 7 rings before. It happened. If our currency is no longer the global currency we have major issues. History is just that. Doesn’t always predict the future.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you want to turn a surplus?
> 
> We are talking about cause and effect. You are saying that certain actions lead to specific results but you can't show any examples of it happening. Perhaps you can explain the theory of why you think it will happen then
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because it is China's intent. So you want to run a deficit forever? What level of debt would be too much in your view? In 2020 we spent 5% on interest expense. What % would be too high in your view? Again, rates are at historic lows but they will rise. If there is ever a decline in demand for US treasuries we are in serious trouble. Right now we remain the safest investment but we have a lot of unrest in America and way too much debt IMO. Borrowing costs will slow growth because we are allocating monies to paying interest vs. other areas of need.
> 
> China is making its move
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> How China Will Take Over The World
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> The People’s Bank of China (PBOC) is only a few months away from launching the digital version of the Chinese Yuan, making China the first country in the world to have a digital central bank currency.
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> Dollar Hegemony Is Under Fire From China’s Rapid Growth Recovery
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> China’s light-speed recovery from the pandemic has reignited the perennial debate about how long the dollar’s 50-year dominance of global markets can persist.
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> www.bloomberg.com
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> Click to expand...
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> I think its probably a good thing to look at why China is taking over. Is it because they are spending less and paying off their debt or because they are producing more and investing more all over the world?? Think about it.
> 
> I'll be honest, I'm not an expert on the economy. I'm good with numbers but I'll admit when I started digging into this subject a few years ago I found that the more I learned the more ass backwards my thinking was before I studied it. I used the make the same arguments that you're making right now. But the economics of a national economy with its own sovereign currency is a beast to understand and I still have a long way to go.  With that said I'll try to address your questions...
> 
> Right now I don't see the harm in running deficits especially with China nipping at our heels. If we ran a surplus that would simply burn money out of the economy and weaken our stronghold. The best thing we can do is invest and stimulate others to conduct commerce using US dollars. The dollar is currently a safe investment because it is used everywhere. It is used everywhere  because people are borrowing and spending and investing in it. Those who own it will protect it.
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> Click to expand...
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> Safe until it isn't. You didn't answer me. What level of debt would make you uncomfortable?
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> Click to expand...
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> To understand what makes it unsafe you need to know the cause and effects. So if you don’t understand how debt effects value then how do you know the risk and what’s leading it to be unsafe? That’s what I’m trying to get into with you. I don’t have an answer for what level of debt would make me uncomfortable. I admittedly don’t have that level of understanding of of how all elements work, yet but I’m working on it. Like I said before my understanding of how financials work within my business and my personal life are very very different from how it works in a national economy. That’s why digging into these questions that I’m asking you is important.
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> Click to expand...
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> Well we have to pay interest expense and the more debt we accumulate the higher that amount is and if other countries perceive we may default it will send us into a tailspin.
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> Click to expand...
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> We can’t default, we control our own currency.
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> Click to expand...
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> Other countries buy our treasuries too. You should watch Too Big to Fail on HBO.
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> Click to expand...
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> And what does that have to do with debt and the value of the dollar?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Watch and you will see.
Click to expand...

Are you done with this discussion then?


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## AzogtheDefiler

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Click to expand...
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Click to expand...
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> Click to expand...
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> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> Click to expand...
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
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> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> Click to expand...
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> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
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> 
> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> 
> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> 
> www.ceifx.com
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?
> 
> Historical Chart of Dollar Index:
> View attachment 465877
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If not for China I would be somewhat agnostic. But China is trying to take over as the world currency and if it does it will be very bad for our economy. They are a major threat and control the majority of manufacturing. Plus it is just bad practice to bail out companies. I always Tel my clients to build a balance sheet for rainy days. But why bother if the Govt will always come to your rescue? Many cities pension plans are underfunded and the cure? Print more money. It’s a terrible practice in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, I understand, I used to and still somewhat do feel the same way, however after diving into some of the questions that I've been asking you my thinking is evolving. Care to address the things I've been asking you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> #1) I don't want to compare today to 20 years ago as China is nipping at our heels and wasn't back then. So I addressed that.
> 
> #2) I think when we devalue money by just printing it we are not holding citizens accountable. Is the next step college debt forgiveness? I think personal and corporate responsibility are essential. Companies must build balance sheets to survive downturns.
> 
> #3) At some point the debt will have to be paid back or written off and it is not like we have a balanced budget. $21Trn, don't know where I got $10 from btw is revenue not profit, why? We don't have profit. Being insolvent is not a good place to be for a person, company or country.
> 
> #4) I hate how we arbitrarily send checks. If you are worried about people then extend unemployment but paying $600 per week was insane. People earned more staying home (not all but many). I am OK extending unemployment but not issuing $1,400 to those who don't even need it. How is that remotely logical?
> 
> What other questions do you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the direct answers but I think you are avoiding drilling in on the roots of your concerns.... If you want to understand cause and effect of how spending money effects the value of the dollar then looking at history is very useful. You are claiming that printing money devalues the dollar. History is not showing that so can you provide your reasoning for saying thats what's happening and explain why the numbers don't support that claim?
> 
> We don't have profit because we deficit spend which some economists think is the proper way to manage a growing economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> History yes, but we also didn't have a plague and people weren't prepared. You don't see China as a threat to the US and the $? IMF already uses the yuan as currency. Because its a Global Plague, people still see the $ as safest but we'll see what happens once the plague is put down. Too much debt is bad, especially when we cannot balance the budget and just keep adding to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes I see China as a threat but you are pointing to a factor that doesn't seem to exist or effect the situation with China. You are worried that spending devalues the dollar and helps Chinas position. But history isn't showing that spending devalues the dollar. Stagnation devalues the dollar. This is what I'm trying to drill down on.
> 
> Too much debt is bad... Why? what examples can you show where the debt has effected the value of the dollar or our position as a world superpower?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because we have to pay it back and interest expense becomes a burden as rates rise, meaning we cannot allocate those monies elsewhere and hence our deficit remains. Again, you're looking at the past but we are living in the present that has deviated from the past on many occasions. The world is vastly different now. So if China overtakes us, what will we say? History never showed us it could do it?!?! What happened? I mean, that is crazy, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This economic system of ours (fiat) has been used since the 1800's. China has been using it for over 1000 years. So yes looking at how printing and borrowing has effected the value of currency is very relevant. If you can't find an example of how the two effect each other in our history then perhaps the premise of your argument is incorrect. Also when has paying back the debt raised rates?  It seems like the opposite has happened. Rates are at an all time low... This is because earning interest has become replaced by the promotion of spending and investment. The focus as been on the flow of currency which is key to a strong economy and strong currency. The more thats out there the bigger the potential output. The output is dependent on transactions and flow.  Its different than how you manage your businesses budget and debt. You get that right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rates will rise once the plague is behind us and we have to pay interest expense you keep avoiding that. Interest expense will become a much larger % of our budget and then how are we ever to turn a surplus. A QB never won 7 rings before. It happened. If our currency is no longer the global currency we have major issues. History is just that. Doesn’t always predict the future.
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> Click to expand...
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> Why do you want to turn a surplus?
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> We are talking about cause and effect. You are saying that certain actions lead to specific results but you can't show any examples of it happening. Perhaps you can explain the theory of why you think it will happen then
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Because it is China's intent. So you want to run a deficit forever? What level of debt would be too much in your view? In 2020 we spent 5% on interest expense. What % would be too high in your view? Again, rates are at historic lows but they will rise. If there is ever a decline in demand for US treasuries we are in serious trouble. Right now we remain the safest investment but we have a lot of unrest in America and way too much debt IMO. Borrowing costs will slow growth because we are allocating monies to paying interest vs. other areas of need.
> 
> China is making its move
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> How China Will Take Over The World
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> The People’s Bank of China (PBOC) is only a few months away from launching the digital version of the Chinese Yuan, making China the first country in the world to have a digital central bank currency.
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> www.forbes.com
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> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> Dollar Hegemony Is Under Fire From China’s Rapid Growth Recovery
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> China’s light-speed recovery from the pandemic has reignited the perennial debate about how long the dollar’s 50-year dominance of global markets can persist.
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> www.bloomberg.com
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> Click to expand...
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> I think its probably a good thing to look at why China is taking over. Is it because they are spending less and paying off their debt or because they are producing more and investing more all over the world?? Think about it.
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> I'll be honest, I'm not an expert on the economy. I'm good with numbers but I'll admit when I started digging into this subject a few years ago I found that the more I learned the more ass backwards my thinking was before I studied it. I used the make the same arguments that you're making right now. But the economics of a national economy with its own sovereign currency is a beast to understand and I still have a long way to go.  With that said I'll try to address your questions...
> 
> Right now I don't see the harm in running deficits especially with China nipping at our heels. If we ran a surplus that would simply burn money out of the economy and weaken our stronghold. The best thing we can do is invest and stimulate others to conduct commerce using US dollars. The dollar is currently a safe investment because it is used everywhere. It is used everywhere  because people are borrowing and spending and investing in it. Those who own it will protect it.
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> Click to expand...
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> Safe until it isn't. You didn't answer me. What level of debt would make you uncomfortable?
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> Click to expand...
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> To understand what makes it unsafe you need to know the cause and effects. So if you don’t understand how debt effects value then how do you know the risk and what’s leading it to be unsafe? That’s what I’m trying to get into with you. I don’t have an answer for what level of debt would make me uncomfortable. I admittedly don’t have that level of understanding of of how all elements work, yet but I’m working on it. Like I said before my understanding of how financials work within my business and my personal life are very very different from how it works in a national economy. That’s why digging into these questions that I’m asking you is important.
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> Click to expand...
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> Well we have to pay interest expense and the more debt we accumulate the higher that amount is and if other countries perceive we may default it will send us into a tailspin.
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> Click to expand...
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> We can’t default, we control our own currency.
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> Other countries buy our treasuries too. You should watch Too Big to Fail on HBO.
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> And what does that have to do with debt and the value of the dollar?
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> Click to expand...
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> Watch and you will see.
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> Click to expand...
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> Are you done with this discussion then?
Click to expand...

Well you admitted that you don’t know much about macro economics and are just stating look at what happened in the past. That’s not a debate or discussion. It’s us yelling over one another. Not overly productive. You seem to believe we can print unlimited $$$ without repercussions. I disagree.


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## Slade3200

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
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> Click to expand...
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> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
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> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
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> Click to expand...
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> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
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> Click to expand...
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> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
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> Click to expand...
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> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
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> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
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> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
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> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
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> Click to expand...
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> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
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> Click to expand...
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> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
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> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
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> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
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> Click to expand...
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> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> Click to expand...
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> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
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> Click to expand...
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> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
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> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Click to expand...
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> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
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> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
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> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
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> 
> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
> 
> 
> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ceifx.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?
> 
> Historical Chart of Dollar Index:
> View attachment 465877
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If not for China I would be somewhat agnostic. But China is trying to take over as the world currency and if it does it will be very bad for our economy. They are a major threat and control the majority of manufacturing. Plus it is just bad practice to bail out companies. I always Tel my clients to build a balance sheet for rainy days. But why bother if the Govt will always come to your rescue? Many cities pension plans are underfunded and the cure? Print more money. It’s a terrible practice in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, I understand, I used to and still somewhat do feel the same way, however after diving into some of the questions that I've been asking you my thinking is evolving. Care to address the things I've been asking you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> #1) I don't want to compare today to 20 years ago as China is nipping at our heels and wasn't back then. So I addressed that.
> 
> #2) I think when we devalue money by just printing it we are not holding citizens accountable. Is the next step college debt forgiveness? I think personal and corporate responsibility are essential. Companies must build balance sheets to survive downturns.
> 
> #3) At some point the debt will have to be paid back or written off and it is not like we have a balanced budget. $21Trn, don't know where I got $10 from btw is revenue not profit, why? We don't have profit. Being insolvent is not a good place to be for a person, company or country.
> 
> #4) I hate how we arbitrarily send checks. If you are worried about people then extend unemployment but paying $600 per week was insane. People earned more staying home (not all but many). I am OK extending unemployment but not issuing $1,400 to those who don't even need it. How is that remotely logical?
> 
> What other questions do you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the direct answers but I think you are avoiding drilling in on the roots of your concerns.... If you want to understand cause and effect of how spending money effects the value of the dollar then looking at history is very useful. You are claiming that printing money devalues the dollar. History is not showing that so can you provide your reasoning for saying thats what's happening and explain why the numbers don't support that claim?
> 
> We don't have profit because we deficit spend which some economists think is the proper way to manage a growing economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> History yes, but we also didn't have a plague and people weren't prepared. You don't see China as a threat to the US and the $? IMF already uses the yuan as currency. Because its a Global Plague, people still see the $ as safest but we'll see what happens once the plague is put down. Too much debt is bad, especially when we cannot balance the budget and just keep adding to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes I see China as a threat but you are pointing to a factor that doesn't seem to exist or effect the situation with China. You are worried that spending devalues the dollar and helps Chinas position. But history isn't showing that spending devalues the dollar. Stagnation devalues the dollar. This is what I'm trying to drill down on.
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> Too much debt is bad... Why? what examples can you show where the debt has effected the value of the dollar or our position as a world superpower?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Because we have to pay it back and interest expense becomes a burden as rates rise, meaning we cannot allocate those monies elsewhere and hence our deficit remains. Again, you're looking at the past but we are living in the present that has deviated from the past on many occasions. The world is vastly different now. So if China overtakes us, what will we say? History never showed us it could do it?!?! What happened? I mean, that is crazy, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This economic system of ours (fiat) has been used since the 1800's. China has been using it for over 1000 years. So yes looking at how printing and borrowing has effected the value of currency is very relevant. If you can't find an example of how the two effect each other in our history then perhaps the premise of your argument is incorrect. Also when has paying back the debt raised rates?  It seems like the opposite has happened. Rates are at an all time low... This is because earning interest has become replaced by the promotion of spending and investment. The focus as been on the flow of currency which is key to a strong economy and strong currency. The more thats out there the bigger the potential output. The output is dependent on transactions and flow.  Its different than how you manage your businesses budget and debt. You get that right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rates will rise once the plague is behind us and we have to pay interest expense you keep avoiding that. Interest expense will become a much larger % of our budget and then how are we ever to turn a surplus. A QB never won 7 rings before. It happened. If our currency is no longer the global currency we have major issues. History is just that. Doesn’t always predict the future.
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> Click to expand...
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> Why do you want to turn a surplus?
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> We are talking about cause and effect. You are saying that certain actions lead to specific results but you can't show any examples of it happening. Perhaps you can explain the theory of why you think it will happen then
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because it is China's intent. So you want to run a deficit forever? What level of debt would be too much in your view? In 2020 we spent 5% on interest expense. What % would be too high in your view? Again, rates are at historic lows but they will rise. If there is ever a decline in demand for US treasuries we are in serious trouble. Right now we remain the safest investment but we have a lot of unrest in America and way too much debt IMO. Borrowing costs will slow growth because we are allocating monies to paying interest vs. other areas of need.
> 
> China is making its move
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> How China Will Take Over The World
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> The People’s Bank of China (PBOC) is only a few months away from launching the digital version of the Chinese Yuan, making China the first country in the world to have a digital central bank currency.
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> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> Dollar Hegemony Is Under Fire From China’s Rapid Growth Recovery
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> China’s light-speed recovery from the pandemic has reignited the perennial debate about how long the dollar’s 50-year dominance of global markets can persist.
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> www.bloomberg.com
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> I think its probably a good thing to look at why China is taking over. Is it because they are spending less and paying off their debt or because they are producing more and investing more all over the world?? Think about it.
> 
> I'll be honest, I'm not an expert on the economy. I'm good with numbers but I'll admit when I started digging into this subject a few years ago I found that the more I learned the more ass backwards my thinking was before I studied it. I used the make the same arguments that you're making right now. But the economics of a national economy with its own sovereign currency is a beast to understand and I still have a long way to go.  With that said I'll try to address your questions...
> 
> Right now I don't see the harm in running deficits especially with China nipping at our heels. If we ran a surplus that would simply burn money out of the economy and weaken our stronghold. The best thing we can do is invest and stimulate others to conduct commerce using US dollars. The dollar is currently a safe investment because it is used everywhere. It is used everywhere  because people are borrowing and spending and investing in it. Those who own it will protect it.
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> Click to expand...
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> Safe until it isn't. You didn't answer me. What level of debt would make you uncomfortable?
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> Click to expand...
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> To understand what makes it unsafe you need to know the cause and effects. So if you don’t understand how debt effects value then how do you know the risk and what’s leading it to be unsafe? That’s what I’m trying to get into with you. I don’t have an answer for what level of debt would make me uncomfortable. I admittedly don’t have that level of understanding of of how all elements work, yet but I’m working on it. Like I said before my understanding of how financials work within my business and my personal life are very very different from how it works in a national economy. That’s why digging into these questions that I’m asking you is important.
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> Click to expand...
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> Well we have to pay interest expense and the more debt we accumulate the higher that amount is and if other countries perceive we may default it will send us into a tailspin.
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> Click to expand...
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> We can’t default, we control our own currency.
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> Click to expand...
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> Other countries buy our treasuries too. You should watch Too Big to Fail on HBO.
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> Click to expand...
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> And what does that have to do with debt and the value of the dollar?
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> Click to expand...
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> Watch and you will see.
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> Click to expand...
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> Are you done with this discussion then?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Well you admitted that you don’t know much about macro economics and are just stating look at what happened in the past. That’s not a debate or discussion. It’s us yelling over one another. Not overly productive. You seem to believe we can print unlimited $$$ without repercussions. I disagree.
Click to expand...

Ok, sorry for wasting your time. Sounds like you got it all figured out.


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## I c h i g o

Penelope said:


> Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell on Wednesday explained that he's opposing the $1,400 stimulus checks in President Joe Biden's $1.9 trillion economic relief bill due to concerns that the payments could stop Americans from working.



Once you start depending on the Government, that is exactly what you get. You get handouts and dependency from it. Instead of going out and working, you rely on the Government for a bailout.
Now, I can understand if you are disabled (such as I am - work related), then it will get you through. At least for a few weeks, if you're lucky. But I still work, but part-time. And at another job. I don't depend on the Government for a bailout.

Now, everyone's results may vary. Not everyone is able to go out and work for various reasons. But the stimulus will only stagnate others (who are capable and able-bodied) to work, because they feel they are getting a free handout. Who doesn't want free money?


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## AzogtheDefiler

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Click to expand...
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Click to expand...
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
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> Click to expand...
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> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> Click to expand...
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> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
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> Click to expand...
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> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> Click to expand...
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> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> Click to expand...
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
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> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
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> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> Click to expand...
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> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
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> Click to expand...
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> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
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> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
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> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> www.ceifx.com
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?
> 
> Historical Chart of Dollar Index:
> View attachment 465877
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If not for China I would be somewhat agnostic. But China is trying to take over as the world currency and if it does it will be very bad for our economy. They are a major threat and control the majority of manufacturing. Plus it is just bad practice to bail out companies. I always Tel my clients to build a balance sheet for rainy days. But why bother if the Govt will always come to your rescue? Many cities pension plans are underfunded and the cure? Print more money. It’s a terrible practice in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, I understand, I used to and still somewhat do feel the same way, however after diving into some of the questions that I've been asking you my thinking is evolving. Care to address the things I've been asking you?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> #1) I don't want to compare today to 20 years ago as China is nipping at our heels and wasn't back then. So I addressed that.
> 
> #2) I think when we devalue money by just printing it we are not holding citizens accountable. Is the next step college debt forgiveness? I think personal and corporate responsibility are essential. Companies must build balance sheets to survive downturns.
> 
> #3) At some point the debt will have to be paid back or written off and it is not like we have a balanced budget. $21Trn, don't know where I got $10 from btw is revenue not profit, why? We don't have profit. Being insolvent is not a good place to be for a person, company or country.
> 
> #4) I hate how we arbitrarily send checks. If you are worried about people then extend unemployment but paying $600 per week was insane. People earned more staying home (not all but many). I am OK extending unemployment but not issuing $1,400 to those who don't even need it. How is that remotely logical?
> 
> What other questions do you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the direct answers but I think you are avoiding drilling in on the roots of your concerns.... If you want to understand cause and effect of how spending money effects the value of the dollar then looking at history is very useful. You are claiming that printing money devalues the dollar. History is not showing that so can you provide your reasoning for saying thats what's happening and explain why the numbers don't support that claim?
> 
> We don't have profit because we deficit spend which some economists think is the proper way to manage a growing economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> History yes, but we also didn't have a plague and people weren't prepared. You don't see China as a threat to the US and the $? IMF already uses the yuan as currency. Because its a Global Plague, people still see the $ as safest but we'll see what happens once the plague is put down. Too much debt is bad, especially when we cannot balance the budget and just keep adding to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes I see China as a threat but you are pointing to a factor that doesn't seem to exist or effect the situation with China. You are worried that spending devalues the dollar and helps Chinas position. But history isn't showing that spending devalues the dollar. Stagnation devalues the dollar. This is what I'm trying to drill down on.
> 
> Too much debt is bad... Why? what examples can you show where the debt has effected the value of the dollar or our position as a world superpower?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because we have to pay it back and interest expense becomes a burden as rates rise, meaning we cannot allocate those monies elsewhere and hence our deficit remains. Again, you're looking at the past but we are living in the present that has deviated from the past on many occasions. The world is vastly different now. So if China overtakes us, what will we say? History never showed us it could do it?!?! What happened? I mean, that is crazy, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This economic system of ours (fiat) has been used since the 1800's. China has been using it for over 1000 years. So yes looking at how printing and borrowing has effected the value of currency is very relevant. If you can't find an example of how the two effect each other in our history then perhaps the premise of your argument is incorrect. Also when has paying back the debt raised rates?  It seems like the opposite has happened. Rates are at an all time low... This is because earning interest has become replaced by the promotion of spending and investment. The focus as been on the flow of currency which is key to a strong economy and strong currency. The more thats out there the bigger the potential output. The output is dependent on transactions and flow.  Its different than how you manage your businesses budget and debt. You get that right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rates will rise once the plague is behind us and we have to pay interest expense you keep avoiding that. Interest expense will become a much larger % of our budget and then how are we ever to turn a surplus. A QB never won 7 rings before. It happened. If our currency is no longer the global currency we have major issues. History is just that. Doesn’t always predict the future.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you want to turn a surplus?
> 
> We are talking about cause and effect. You are saying that certain actions lead to specific results but you can't show any examples of it happening. Perhaps you can explain the theory of why you think it will happen then
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because it is China's intent. So you want to run a deficit forever? What level of debt would be too much in your view? In 2020 we spent 5% on interest expense. What % would be too high in your view? Again, rates are at historic lows but they will rise. If there is ever a decline in demand for US treasuries we are in serious trouble. Right now we remain the safest investment but we have a lot of unrest in America and way too much debt IMO. Borrowing costs will slow growth because we are allocating monies to paying interest vs. other areas of need.
> 
> China is making its move
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> How China Will Take Over The World
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> The People’s Bank of China (PBOC) is only a few months away from launching the digital version of the Chinese Yuan, making China the first country in the world to have a digital central bank currency.
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> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> Dollar Hegemony Is Under Fire From China’s Rapid Growth Recovery
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> China’s light-speed recovery from the pandemic has reignited the perennial debate about how long the dollar’s 50-year dominance of global markets can persist.
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> I think its probably a good thing to look at why China is taking over. Is it because they are spending less and paying off their debt or because they are producing more and investing more all over the world?? Think about it.
> 
> I'll be honest, I'm not an expert on the economy. I'm good with numbers but I'll admit when I started digging into this subject a few years ago I found that the more I learned the more ass backwards my thinking was before I studied it. I used the make the same arguments that you're making right now. But the economics of a national economy with its own sovereign currency is a beast to understand and I still have a long way to go.  With that said I'll try to address your questions...
> 
> Right now I don't see the harm in running deficits especially with China nipping at our heels. If we ran a surplus that would simply burn money out of the economy and weaken our stronghold. The best thing we can do is invest and stimulate others to conduct commerce using US dollars. The dollar is currently a safe investment because it is used everywhere. It is used everywhere  because people are borrowing and spending and investing in it. Those who own it will protect it.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Safe until it isn't. You didn't answer me. What level of debt would make you uncomfortable?
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> To understand what makes it unsafe you need to know the cause and effects. So if you don’t understand how debt effects value then how do you know the risk and what’s leading it to be unsafe? That’s what I’m trying to get into with you. I don’t have an answer for what level of debt would make me uncomfortable. I admittedly don’t have that level of understanding of of how all elements work, yet but I’m working on it. Like I said before my understanding of how financials work within my business and my personal life are very very different from how it works in a national economy. That’s why digging into these questions that I’m asking you is important.
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> Well we have to pay interest expense and the more debt we accumulate the higher that amount is and if other countries perceive we may default it will send us into a tailspin.
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> We can’t default, we control our own currency.
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> Other countries buy our treasuries too. You should watch Too Big to Fail on HBO.
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> And what does that have to do with debt and the value of the dollar?
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> Watch and you will see.
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> Are you done with this discussion then?
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> Well you admitted that you don’t know much about macro economics and are just stating look at what happened in the past. That’s not a debate or discussion. It’s us yelling over one another. Not overly productive. You seem to believe we can print unlimited $$$ without repercussions. I disagree.
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> Click to expand...
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> Ok, sorry for wasting your time. Sounds like you got it all figured out.
Click to expand...

No. I do know that history is not always a great way to gauge the future. It can surprise you. If I were you, I would read up on China and how it’s trying to overtake the USD as the global currency and I would watch Too Big to Fail.


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## Slade3200

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
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> Click to expand...
> 
> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
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> Click to expand...
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> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
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> Click to expand...
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> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
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> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
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> 
> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> www.ceifx.com
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> 
> Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?
> 
> Historical Chart of Dollar Index:
> View attachment 465877
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> Click to expand...
> 
> If not for China I would be somewhat agnostic. But China is trying to take over as the world currency and if it does it will be very bad for our economy. They are a major threat and control the majority of manufacturing. Plus it is just bad practice to bail out companies. I always Tel my clients to build a balance sheet for rainy days. But why bother if the Govt will always come to your rescue? Many cities pension plans are underfunded and the cure? Print more money. It’s a terrible practice in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, I understand, I used to and still somewhat do feel the same way, however after diving into some of the questions that I've been asking you my thinking is evolving. Care to address the things I've been asking you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> #1) I don't want to compare today to 20 years ago as China is nipping at our heels and wasn't back then. So I addressed that.
> 
> #2) I think when we devalue money by just printing it we are not holding citizens accountable. Is the next step college debt forgiveness? I think personal and corporate responsibility are essential. Companies must build balance sheets to survive downturns.
> 
> #3) At some point the debt will have to be paid back or written off and it is not like we have a balanced budget. $21Trn, don't know where I got $10 from btw is revenue not profit, why? We don't have profit. Being insolvent is not a good place to be for a person, company or country.
> 
> #4) I hate how we arbitrarily send checks. If you are worried about people then extend unemployment but paying $600 per week was insane. People earned more staying home (not all but many). I am OK extending unemployment but not issuing $1,400 to those who don't even need it. How is that remotely logical?
> 
> What other questions do you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the direct answers but I think you are avoiding drilling in on the roots of your concerns.... If you want to understand cause and effect of how spending money effects the value of the dollar then looking at history is very useful. You are claiming that printing money devalues the dollar. History is not showing that so can you provide your reasoning for saying thats what's happening and explain why the numbers don't support that claim?
> 
> We don't have profit because we deficit spend which some economists think is the proper way to manage a growing economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> History yes, but we also didn't have a plague and people weren't prepared. You don't see China as a threat to the US and the $? IMF already uses the yuan as currency. Because its a Global Plague, people still see the $ as safest but we'll see what happens once the plague is put down. Too much debt is bad, especially when we cannot balance the budget and just keep adding to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes I see China as a threat but you are pointing to a factor that doesn't seem to exist or effect the situation with China. You are worried that spending devalues the dollar and helps Chinas position. But history isn't showing that spending devalues the dollar. Stagnation devalues the dollar. This is what I'm trying to drill down on.
> 
> Too much debt is bad... Why? what examples can you show where the debt has effected the value of the dollar or our position as a world superpower?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because we have to pay it back and interest expense becomes a burden as rates rise, meaning we cannot allocate those monies elsewhere and hence our deficit remains. Again, you're looking at the past but we are living in the present that has deviated from the past on many occasions. The world is vastly different now. So if China overtakes us, what will we say? History never showed us it could do it?!?! What happened? I mean, that is crazy, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This economic system of ours (fiat) has been used since the 1800's. China has been using it for over 1000 years. So yes looking at how printing and borrowing has effected the value of currency is very relevant. If you can't find an example of how the two effect each other in our history then perhaps the premise of your argument is incorrect. Also when has paying back the debt raised rates?  It seems like the opposite has happened. Rates are at an all time low... This is because earning interest has become replaced by the promotion of spending and investment. The focus as been on the flow of currency which is key to a strong economy and strong currency. The more thats out there the bigger the potential output. The output is dependent on transactions and flow.  Its different than how you manage your businesses budget and debt. You get that right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rates will rise once the plague is behind us and we have to pay interest expense you keep avoiding that. Interest expense will become a much larger % of our budget and then how are we ever to turn a surplus. A QB never won 7 rings before. It happened. If our currency is no longer the global currency we have major issues. History is just that. Doesn’t always predict the future.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you want to turn a surplus?
> 
> We are talking about cause and effect. You are saying that certain actions lead to specific results but you can't show any examples of it happening. Perhaps you can explain the theory of why you think it will happen then
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because it is China's intent. So you want to run a deficit forever? What level of debt would be too much in your view? In 2020 we spent 5% on interest expense. What % would be too high in your view? Again, rates are at historic lows but they will rise. If there is ever a decline in demand for US treasuries we are in serious trouble. Right now we remain the safest investment but we have a lot of unrest in America and way too much debt IMO. Borrowing costs will slow growth because we are allocating monies to paying interest vs. other areas of need.
> 
> China is making its move
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> How China Will Take Over The World
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> The People’s Bank of China (PBOC) is only a few months away from launching the digital version of the Chinese Yuan, making China the first country in the world to have a digital central bank currency.
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> Dollar Hegemony Is Under Fire From China’s Rapid Growth Recovery
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> China’s light-speed recovery from the pandemic has reignited the perennial debate about how long the dollar’s 50-year dominance of global markets can persist.
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> I think its probably a good thing to look at why China is taking over. Is it because they are spending less and paying off their debt or because they are producing more and investing more all over the world?? Think about it.
> 
> I'll be honest, I'm not an expert on the economy. I'm good with numbers but I'll admit when I started digging into this subject a few years ago I found that the more I learned the more ass backwards my thinking was before I studied it. I used the make the same arguments that you're making right now. But the economics of a national economy with its own sovereign currency is a beast to understand and I still have a long way to go.  With that said I'll try to address your questions...
> 
> Right now I don't see the harm in running deficits especially with China nipping at our heels. If we ran a surplus that would simply burn money out of the economy and weaken our stronghold. The best thing we can do is invest and stimulate others to conduct commerce using US dollars. The dollar is currently a safe investment because it is used everywhere. It is used everywhere  because people are borrowing and spending and investing in it. Those who own it will protect it.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Safe until it isn't. You didn't answer me. What level of debt would make you uncomfortable?
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> Click to expand...
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> To understand what makes it unsafe you need to know the cause and effects. So if you don’t understand how debt effects value then how do you know the risk and what’s leading it to be unsafe? That’s what I’m trying to get into with you. I don’t have an answer for what level of debt would make me uncomfortable. I admittedly don’t have that level of understanding of of how all elements work, yet but I’m working on it. Like I said before my understanding of how financials work within my business and my personal life are very very different from how it works in a national economy. That’s why digging into these questions that I’m asking you is important.
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> Click to expand...
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> Well we have to pay interest expense and the more debt we accumulate the higher that amount is and if other countries perceive we may default it will send us into a tailspin.
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> We can’t default, we control our own currency.
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> Other countries buy our treasuries too. You should watch Too Big to Fail on HBO.
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> And what does that have to do with debt and the value of the dollar?
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> Watch and you will see.
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> Are you done with this discussion then?
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> Well you admitted that you don’t know much about macro economics and are just stating look at what happened in the past. That’s not a debate or discussion. It’s us yelling over one another. Not overly productive. You seem to believe we can print unlimited $$$ without repercussions. I disagree.
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> Ok, sorry for wasting your time. Sounds like you got it all figured out.
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> No. I do know that history is not always a great way to gauge the future. It can surprise you. If I were you, I would read up on China and how it’s trying to overtake the USD as the global currency and I would watch Too Big to Fail.
Click to expand...

I’ll check out the flick. I’m also not saying that new things can’t occur but I don’t think it’s a valid excuse to not consider my questions. You should think about them and do your own research


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## AzogtheDefiler

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> Click to expand...
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> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
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> Click to expand...
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> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Click to expand...
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Click to expand...
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
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> Click to expand...
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> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> 
> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
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> Click to expand...
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> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> Click to expand...
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> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
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> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
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> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
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> Click to expand...
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> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
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> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
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> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
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> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
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> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
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> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
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> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
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> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
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> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
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> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
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> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
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> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
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> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
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> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
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> 
> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
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> 
> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
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> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> www.ceifx.com
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> 
> Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?
> 
> Historical Chart of Dollar Index:
> View attachment 465877
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> Click to expand...
> 
> If not for China I would be somewhat agnostic. But China is trying to take over as the world currency and if it does it will be very bad for our economy. They are a major threat and control the majority of manufacturing. Plus it is just bad practice to bail out companies. I always Tel my clients to build a balance sheet for rainy days. But why bother if the Govt will always come to your rescue? Many cities pension plans are underfunded and the cure? Print more money. It’s a terrible practice in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, I understand, I used to and still somewhat do feel the same way, however after diving into some of the questions that I've been asking you my thinking is evolving. Care to address the things I've been asking you?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> #1) I don't want to compare today to 20 years ago as China is nipping at our heels and wasn't back then. So I addressed that.
> 
> #2) I think when we devalue money by just printing it we are not holding citizens accountable. Is the next step college debt forgiveness? I think personal and corporate responsibility are essential. Companies must build balance sheets to survive downturns.
> 
> #3) At some point the debt will have to be paid back or written off and it is not like we have a balanced budget. $21Trn, don't know where I got $10 from btw is revenue not profit, why? We don't have profit. Being insolvent is not a good place to be for a person, company or country.
> 
> #4) I hate how we arbitrarily send checks. If you are worried about people then extend unemployment but paying $600 per week was insane. People earned more staying home (not all but many). I am OK extending unemployment but not issuing $1,400 to those who don't even need it. How is that remotely logical?
> 
> What other questions do you have?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the direct answers but I think you are avoiding drilling in on the roots of your concerns.... If you want to understand cause and effect of how spending money effects the value of the dollar then looking at history is very useful. You are claiming that printing money devalues the dollar. History is not showing that so can you provide your reasoning for saying thats what's happening and explain why the numbers don't support that claim?
> 
> We don't have profit because we deficit spend which some economists think is the proper way to manage a growing economy.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> History yes, but we also didn't have a plague and people weren't prepared. You don't see China as a threat to the US and the $? IMF already uses the yuan as currency. Because its a Global Plague, people still see the $ as safest but we'll see what happens once the plague is put down. Too much debt is bad, especially when we cannot balance the budget and just keep adding to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes I see China as a threat but you are pointing to a factor that doesn't seem to exist or effect the situation with China. You are worried that spending devalues the dollar and helps Chinas position. But history isn't showing that spending devalues the dollar. Stagnation devalues the dollar. This is what I'm trying to drill down on.
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> Too much debt is bad... Why? what examples can you show where the debt has effected the value of the dollar or our position as a world superpower?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Because we have to pay it back and interest expense becomes a burden as rates rise, meaning we cannot allocate those monies elsewhere and hence our deficit remains. Again, you're looking at the past but we are living in the present that has deviated from the past on many occasions. The world is vastly different now. So if China overtakes us, what will we say? History never showed us it could do it?!?! What happened? I mean, that is crazy, right?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> This economic system of ours (fiat) has been used since the 1800's. China has been using it for over 1000 years. So yes looking at how printing and borrowing has effected the value of currency is very relevant. If you can't find an example of how the two effect each other in our history then perhaps the premise of your argument is incorrect. Also when has paying back the debt raised rates?  It seems like the opposite has happened. Rates are at an all time low... This is because earning interest has become replaced by the promotion of spending and investment. The focus as been on the flow of currency which is key to a strong economy and strong currency. The more thats out there the bigger the potential output. The output is dependent on transactions and flow.  Its different than how you manage your businesses budget and debt. You get that right?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Rates will rise once the plague is behind us and we have to pay interest expense you keep avoiding that. Interest expense will become a much larger % of our budget and then how are we ever to turn a surplus. A QB never won 7 rings before. It happened. If our currency is no longer the global currency we have major issues. History is just that. Doesn’t always predict the future.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you want to turn a surplus?
> 
> We are talking about cause and effect. You are saying that certain actions lead to specific results but you can't show any examples of it happening. Perhaps you can explain the theory of why you think it will happen then
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Because it is China's intent. So you want to run a deficit forever? What level of debt would be too much in your view? In 2020 we spent 5% on interest expense. What % would be too high in your view? Again, rates are at historic lows but they will rise. If there is ever a decline in demand for US treasuries we are in serious trouble. Right now we remain the safest investment but we have a lot of unrest in America and way too much debt IMO. Borrowing costs will slow growth because we are allocating monies to paying interest vs. other areas of need.
> 
> China is making its move
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> How China Will Take Over The World
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> The People’s Bank of China (PBOC) is only a few months away from launching the digital version of the Chinese Yuan, making China the first country in the world to have a digital central bank currency.
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> Dollar Hegemony Is Under Fire From China’s Rapid Growth Recovery
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> China’s light-speed recovery from the pandemic has reignited the perennial debate about how long the dollar’s 50-year dominance of global markets can persist.
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> www.bloomberg.com
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> I think its probably a good thing to look at why China is taking over. Is it because they are spending less and paying off their debt or because they are producing more and investing more all over the world?? Think about it.
> 
> I'll be honest, I'm not an expert on the economy. I'm good with numbers but I'll admit when I started digging into this subject a few years ago I found that the more I learned the more ass backwards my thinking was before I studied it. I used the make the same arguments that you're making right now. But the economics of a national economy with its own sovereign currency is a beast to understand and I still have a long way to go.  With that said I'll try to address your questions...
> 
> Right now I don't see the harm in running deficits especially with China nipping at our heels. If we ran a surplus that would simply burn money out of the economy and weaken our stronghold. The best thing we can do is invest and stimulate others to conduct commerce using US dollars. The dollar is currently a safe investment because it is used everywhere. It is used everywhere  because people are borrowing and spending and investing in it. Those who own it will protect it.
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> Click to expand...
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> Safe until it isn't. You didn't answer me. What level of debt would make you uncomfortable?
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> To understand what makes it unsafe you need to know the cause and effects. So if you don’t understand how debt effects value then how do you know the risk and what’s leading it to be unsafe? That’s what I’m trying to get into with you. I don’t have an answer for what level of debt would make me uncomfortable. I admittedly don’t have that level of understanding of of how all elements work, yet but I’m working on it. Like I said before my understanding of how financials work within my business and my personal life are very very different from how it works in a national economy. That’s why digging into these questions that I’m asking you is important.
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> Well we have to pay interest expense and the more debt we accumulate the higher that amount is and if other countries perceive we may default it will send us into a tailspin.
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> We can’t default, we control our own currency.
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> Other countries buy our treasuries too. You should watch Too Big to Fail on HBO.
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> And what does that have to do with debt and the value of the dollar?
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> Watch and you will see.
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> Are you done with this discussion then?
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> Well you admitted that you don’t know much about macro economics and are just stating look at what happened in the past. That’s not a debate or discussion. It’s us yelling over one another. Not overly productive. You seem to believe we can print unlimited $$$ without repercussions. I disagree.
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> Ok, sorry for wasting your time. Sounds like you got it all figured out.
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> No. I do know that history is not always a great way to gauge the future. It can surprise you. If I were you, I would read up on China and how it’s trying to overtake the USD as the global currency and I would watch Too Big to Fail.
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> I’ll check out the flick. I’m also not saying that new things can’t occur but I don’t think it’s a valid excuse to not consider my questions. You should think about them and do your own research
Click to expand...

I have and to me we are living on the edge.


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## Slade3200

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> It comprises $400 billion
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> Not so fast lol math on that ?
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> No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turn
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> You said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?
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> Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrong
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> Lol see your dishonest you’re  counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.
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> Prove it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your work
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> I asked you first let’s go boy
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> And I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.
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> You’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. Lol
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> Prove it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your arguments
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> You gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? Huh
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> That’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next question
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> “ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippy
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> Why are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak
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> Click to expand...
> 
> You never gave me numbers you said comprise. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you go
> 
> This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
> 
> So  $422B / $1.9T = 22%  So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it.  Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt.  Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?
> 
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> 
> So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animals
> 
> 
> COBRA8​Paid leave0.4​School lunch7​Testing/Tracing50​Public Health Workforce19​Funeral Expenses47​Distribution10​Restaurants and Bars25​EIDL15​PPP7​Animal1​Total COVID$ 189Total Bill$ 1,9279.83%​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?
> 
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> 
> I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BS
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> Click to expand...
> 
> My calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.
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> 
> Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to Covid
> 
> 
> *Ways & Means*Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks$422 billionExtend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement$246 billionExpand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year$143 billionProvide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules_*$58 billion*_Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage$45 billionExtend paid sick leave and employee retention credit$14 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$8 billionRepeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries*-$22 billion*Other policies*$9 billion**Oversight & Reform*Provide money to state governments$195 billionProvide money to local governments, territories, and tribes$155 billionCreate paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies$0.4 billion*Education & Labor*Provide funding for K-12 education$129 billionProvide funding for colleges and universities$40 billionIncrease the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025*$54 billion*Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start$40 billionSubsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers*$10 billionExtend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance$7 billionHuman services, labor programs, and other policies*$11 billion*Energy & Commerce*Increase funding for testing and contract tracing$50 billionIncrease public health workforce and investments$19 billionFund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains$16 billionIncrease Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA$16 billionAllow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years*$9 billion*Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price*-$18 billion*Other policies**$31 billion**Transportation & Infrastructure*Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID$47 billionProvide grants to transit agencies*$28 billion*Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers$11 billionProvide grants to communities under economic stress$3 billionGrants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending*$2 billion**Financial Services*Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless$30 billionProvide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September$12 billionUse Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies$10 billionProvide mortgage payment assistance$10 billionReauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative$9 billion*Small Business*Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic$25 billionProvide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business$15 billionAllow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies$7 billionOther policies*$3 billion**Veterans’ Affairs*Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans*$16 billion*Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs*$1 billion**Agriculture*Increase nutrition assistance*$6 billion*Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers*$5 billion*Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals$4 billionTesting and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations$1 billion*Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet)**$10 billion**Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion**Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet)**$1 billion*Total*$1.927 trillion
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?
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> 
> No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.
> 
> I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?
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> 
> I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVID
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> Click to expand...
> 
> But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.
> 
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> 
> Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage done
> 
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> 
> Right if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.
> 
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> 
> I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key here
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> 
> Speed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.
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> 
> Everything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% pork
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> 
> It’s around 90% not COVID related IMO. At least not directly. I stand by my math.
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> 
> how can your opinion be so skewed? Do you really not think employment was effected by Covid. We went from 3% to 10% unemployment. 10% of the Bill funds unemployment benefits. What about childcare?? Schools shut down, people were laid off. A large chunk funds schools and child care. How in the world do you not see these things as related to COVID?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and that should not have happened. I dislike rescue plans. My 13 yr old works part time for a day care, pre school. Never shut down. So that’s a fallacy. Again, don’t want financial hardships don’t shut down or else live with the consequences. I again dislike rescue packages. Govt should not be involved.
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> 
> It’s not a fallacy. What’s happening in your part of the word does not mean that’s what it’s like everywhere. The schools in my community are still shut down. Unless you pay $30k a year for private then you can go back.
> 
> so the governments did shut down in many places and businesses were impacted. My sports apparel biz didn’t get one order in 3 months. I was down 80% in 2020. I was ok with savings and other revenue sources. Didn’t take a dime from the gov but I can absolutely understand how many many many others are hurting because of what COVID did to the economy. It’s absolutely the governments responsibility to stimulate and manage this situation to help people out. Otherwise we are looking at a decade of depression. Why are you so opposed to it? Is it the national debt you’re so worried About that you don’t want to help our citizens out of a hole?
> 
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> 
> So you built a balance sheet and did OK. That’s how it should be. Govt should not bail you out. Next time vote for people who are more pro business. Instead we get fake money bail outs and lower the value of the dollar, precisely what China wants btw. I believe in free markets and no rescue plans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much have past bail outs lowered the value of the dollar? Is that your primary concern about government spending, the value of the dollar?
> 
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> 
> Yes. Primary concern. China is trying to overtake the $ as the world currency and the more we print the more we devalue. This was unnecessary. Economy was recovering, vaccines are here. This was to garner votes. Plain and simple in my view.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, well lets dive into that a bit... Have you compared the strength of the dollar in the mid 2000s to the strength in the late 2010's after we printed a spent a shit ton under Obama for his stimulus?
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> 
> How close was China to us in 2k vs now? Have you asked that?
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> 
> Chinese Yuan Approved By IMF As Exclusive World Currency - Currency Exchange International, Corp.
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> The International Monetary Fund's decision marks an important milestone in China’s global financial integration - Currency Exchange International CXI
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> www.ceifx.com
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> 
> Yes, that is a great question, China is getting closer but not because the value of our dollar got devalued from government spending. I asked if you compared the dollar index of the Bush era vs the Obama  era... go back to 80's vs 90's as well. If this is your primary concern then I'd think that understanding the causes and effects would be key for you. Do you think spending and debt is having a direct and impactful effect of devaluing the dollar based on historical data?
> 
> Historical Chart of Dollar Index:
> View attachment 465877
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If not for China I would be somewhat agnostic. But China is trying to take over as the world currency and if it does it will be very bad for our economy. They are a major threat and control the majority of manufacturing. Plus it is just bad practice to bail out companies. I always Tel my clients to build a balance sheet for rainy days. But why bother if the Govt will always come to your rescue? Many cities pension plans are underfunded and the cure? Print more money. It’s a terrible practice in my view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, I understand, I used to and still somewhat do feel the same way, however after diving into some of the questions that I've been asking you my thinking is evolving. Care to address the things I've been asking you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> #1) I don't want to compare today to 20 years ago as China is nipping at our heels and wasn't back then. So I addressed that.
> 
> #2) I think when we devalue money by just printing it we are not holding citizens accountable. Is the next step college debt forgiveness? I think personal and corporate responsibility are essential. Companies must build balance sheets to survive downturns.
> 
> #3) At some point the debt will have to be paid back or written off and it is not like we have a balanced budget. $21Trn, don't know where I got $10 from btw is revenue not profit, why? We don't have profit. Being insolvent is not a good place to be for a person, company or country.
> 
> #4) I hate how we arbitrarily send checks. If you are worried about people then extend unemployment but paying $600 per week was insane. People earned more staying home (not all but many). I am OK extending unemployment but not issuing $1,400 to those who don't even need it. How is that remotely logical?
> 
> What other questions do you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the direct answers but I think you are avoiding drilling in on the roots of your concerns.... If you want to understand cause and effect of how spending money effects the value of the dollar then looking at history is very useful. You are claiming that printing money devalues the dollar. History is not showing that so can you provide your reasoning for saying thats what's happening and explain why the numbers don't support that claim?
> 
> We don't have profit because we deficit spend which some economists think is the proper way to manage a growing economy.
> 
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> 
> History yes, but we also didn't have a plague and people weren't prepared. You don't see China as a threat to the US and the $? IMF already uses the yuan as currency. Because its a Global Plague, people still see the $ as safest but we'll see what happens once the plague is put down. Too much debt is bad, especially when we cannot balance the budget and just keep adding to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes I see China as a threat but you are pointing to a factor that doesn't seem to exist or effect the situation with China. You are worried that spending devalues the dollar and helps Chinas position. But history isn't showing that spending devalues the dollar. Stagnation devalues the dollar. This is what I'm trying to drill down on.
> 
> Too much debt is bad... Why? what examples can you show where the debt has effected the value of the dollar or our position as a world superpower?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Because we have to pay it back and interest expense becomes a burden as rates rise, meaning we cannot allocate those monies elsewhere and hence our deficit remains. Again, you're looking at the past but we are living in the present that has deviated from the past on many occasions. The world is vastly different now. So if China overtakes us, what will we say? History never showed us it could do it?!?! What happened? I mean, that is crazy, right?
> 
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> 
> This economic system of ours (fiat) has been used since the 1800's. China has been using it for over 1000 years. So yes looking at how printing and borrowing has effected the value of currency is very relevant. If you can't find an example of how the two effect each other in our history then perhaps the premise of your argument is incorrect. Also when has paying back the debt raised rates?  It seems like the opposite has happened. Rates are at an all time low... This is because earning interest has become replaced by the promotion of spending and investment. The focus as been on the flow of currency which is key to a strong economy and strong currency. The more thats out there the bigger the potential output. The output is dependent on transactions and flow.  Its different than how you manage your businesses budget and debt. You get that right?
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> 
> Rates will rise once the plague is behind us and we have to pay interest expense you keep avoiding that. Interest expense will become a much larger % of our budget and then how are we ever to turn a surplus. A QB never won 7 rings before. It happened. If our currency is no longer the global currency we have major issues. History is just that. Doesn’t always predict the future.
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> 
> Why do you want to turn a surplus?
> 
> We are talking about cause and effect. You are saying that certain actions lead to specific results but you can't show any examples of it happening. Perhaps you can explain the theory of why you think it will happen then
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Because it is China's intent. So you want to run a deficit forever? What level of debt would be too much in your view? In 2020 we spent 5% on interest expense. What % would be too high in your view? Again, rates are at historic lows but they will rise. If there is ever a decline in demand for US treasuries we are in serious trouble. Right now we remain the safest investment but we have a lot of unrest in America and way too much debt IMO. Borrowing costs will slow growth because we are allocating monies to paying interest vs. other areas of need.
> 
> China is making its move
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> How China Will Take Over The World
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> The People’s Bank of China (PBOC) is only a few months away from launching the digital version of the Chinese Yuan, making China the first country in the world to have a digital central bank currency.
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> Dollar Hegemony Is Under Fire From China’s Rapid Growth Recovery
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> China’s light-speed recovery from the pandemic has reignited the perennial debate about how long the dollar’s 50-year dominance of global markets can persist.
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> I think its probably a good thing to look at why China is taking over. Is it because they are spending less and paying off their debt or because they are producing more and investing more all over the world?? Think about it.
> 
> I'll be honest, I'm not an expert on the economy. I'm good with numbers but I'll admit when I started digging into this subject a few years ago I found that the more I learned the more ass backwards my thinking was before I studied it. I used the make the same arguments that you're making right now. But the economics of a national economy with its own sovereign currency is a beast to understand and I still have a long way to go.  With that said I'll try to address your questions...
> 
> Right now I don't see the harm in running deficits especially with China nipping at our heels. If we ran a surplus that would simply burn money out of the economy and weaken our stronghold. The best thing we can do is invest and stimulate others to conduct commerce using US dollars. The dollar is currently a safe investment because it is used everywhere. It is used everywhere  because people are borrowing and spending and investing in it. Those who own it will protect it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Safe until it isn't. You didn't answer me. What level of debt would make you uncomfortable?
> 
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> 
> To understand what makes it unsafe you need to know the cause and effects. So if you don’t understand how debt effects value then how do you know the risk and what’s leading it to be unsafe? That’s what I’m trying to get into with you. I don’t have an answer for what level of debt would make me uncomfortable. I admittedly don’t have that level of understanding of of how all elements work, yet but I’m working on it. Like I said before my understanding of how financials work within my business and my personal life are very very different from how it works in a national economy. That’s why digging into these questions that I’m asking you is important.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well we have to pay interest expense and the more debt we accumulate the higher that amount is and if other countries perceive we may default it will send us into a tailspin.
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> 
> We can’t default, we control our own currency.
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> 
> Other countries buy our treasuries too. You should watch Too Big to Fail on HBO.
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> 
> And what does that have to do with debt and the value of the dollar?
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> 
> Watch and you will see.
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> 
> Are you done with this discussion then?
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> 
> Well you admitted that you don’t know much about macro economics and are just stating look at what happened in the past. That’s not a debate or discussion. It’s us yelling over one another. Not overly productive. You seem to believe we can print unlimited $$$ without repercussions. I disagree.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, sorry for wasting your time. Sounds like you got it all figured out.
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> 
> No. I do know that history is not always a great way to gauge the future. It can surprise you. If I were you, I would read up on China and how it’s trying to overtake the USD as the global currency and I would watch Too Big to Fail.
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> 
> I’ll check out the flick. I’m also not saying that new things can’t occur but I don’t think it’s a valid excuse to not consider my questions. You should think about them and do your own research
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> 
> I have and to me we are living on the edge.
Click to expand...

If you had it figure out you would have addressed my questions but you avoided and dismissed them which is telling. I don’t think you understand how debt effects the value of the dollar and I don’t think you understand how deficit spending works in the worlds largest economy. I hope you do some research and the next conversation we have about this can be more fruitful


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## krichton

I'm actually currently planning my retirement after receiving that stimulus check


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## Quasar44

pknopp said:


> Oddly this doesn't apply to the billions he gave Wall Street.


The Gobbler has always been the flagship for both  Wall Street and China


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## badbob85037

Penelope said:


> Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell on Wednesday explained that he's opposing the $1,400 stimulus checks in President Joe Biden's $1.9 trillion economic relief bill due to concerns that the payments could stop Americans from working.
> 
> McConnell Opposes $1,400 Stimulus Checks Because He Thinks People Could Stop Working (newsweek.com)
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 
> He is out of touch with reality and should retire!!


You 'something for nothing' democrats are a worthless bunch and what the fuck do any of you know about a job. Brain dead biden can raise your taxes, restrict your  First Amendment, take your Second  Amendment, and slice up your Fourth Amendment and not one word from any of you ass holes but mess with your free money and all of you start pitckin a bitch I also didn't hear a word from you magots on all the state bail outs in that 1.9 Trillion  inflated cash. Oh well 'something for nothing' and your kids just as worthless you won't be paying no taxes anyway.  When Joe goes to far and he realizes he has those troops on the wrong side off the razor wire the first thing to stop is those checks you bums put up your arm, or buy  table dances at the fag bar. and the food stamps fail to show up you will starve or steal and in the middle of a revolt that will get you killed fast.   Good riddance  to bad garbage    You give genocide a good name. IF YOUR LEADERS ARE IDIOTS WHAT DOES THAT MAKE YOU ? READ IT AGAIN.


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## Staidhup

From what I understand the number of available jobs exceeds the unemployment rate and yet worker participation levels have fallen to the lowest level since 2016. So why won’t they work? Simply because they can make near the same by staying home. So was Mitch wrong? Apparently not. Why fish when uncle joe can deliver fish for free to your front door!


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## Leo123

The D.C. swamp owes US much more than $1,400 for what they put US through with the RUSSIA!! conspiracy the fake Impeachment and the fake pandemic economic shut down.   I say keep your fucking money and give US back a truly great President...TRUMP.  Then get the fuck out of our Capitol.


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## Weatherman2020

I bought some new Glocks and ammo with my money from Joe. 
Thanks Joe!


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