# John F. Kennedy.. Democrats



## Lumpy 1

Where have They All Gone..?

My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
John F. Kennedy

The best road to progress is freedom's road.
John F. Kennedy

Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
John F. Kennedy

A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.
John F. Kennedy

Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
John F. Kennedy


John F. Kennedy Quotes - BrainyQuote


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## Lumpy 1

I remember the day he was killed .. I was in elementary school, we all were sent home from school and I recall the crying, the tears and an odd quiet on everyone's face. It changed the country..

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From the day it happened, the assassination of President John F. Kennedy was a story that was inextricably linked to television. The gravity and choked emotion in the voice of CBS anchor Walter Cronkite, as he made the official on-air announcement that the 46-year-old Kennedy was dead, reflected the countrys collective shock and grief.

TV remembers President John F. Kennedy, as the 50th anniversary of his assassination approaches | OregonLive.com


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## Wildman

i was in Atsugi Japan when he was killed, we went on "RED ALERT" and stayed that way for 5 days


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## Mad_Cabbie

Lumpy 1 said:


> Where have They All Gone..?
> 
> My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> The best road to progress is freedom's road.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> 
> John F. Kennedy Quotes - BrainyQuote



I love the stuff that JFK said, but just how much did he actually contribute to the nation? 

It's a sore spot that can't be addressed ... we can't question his legacy because he was shot. 

Talking about putting a man on the moon was great TV, but HE did it? We would not have done this without him?

Not meaning this as a troll, just a reality check.


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## rightwinger

Mad_Cabbie said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where have They All Gone..?
> 
> My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> The best road to progress is freedom's road.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> 
> John F. Kennedy Quotes - BrainyQuote
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love the stuff that JFK said, but just how much did he actually contribute to the nation?
> 
> It's a sore spot that can't be addressed ... we can't question his legacy because he was shot.
> 
> Talking about putting a man on the moon was great TV, but HE did it? We would not have done this without him?
> 
> Not meaning this as a troll, just a reality check.
Click to expand...


Once JFK was killed, going to the moon became a mandate by the end of the decade
It also pushed the Civil Rights Law and Medicare ......JFK wanted it


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## Lumpy 1

Mad_Cabbie said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where have They All Gone..?
> 
> My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> The best road to progress is freedom's road.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> 
> John F. Kennedy Quotes - BrainyQuote
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love the stuff that JFK said, but just how much did he actually contribute to the nation?
> 
> It's a sore spot that can't be addressed ... we can't question his legacy because he was shot.
> 
> Talking about putting a man on the moon was great TV, but HE did it? We would not have done this without him?
> 
> Not meaning this as a troll, just a reality check.
Click to expand...


I recall that he brought the country together, it just felt good to have him as President.


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## rightwinger

Lumpy 1 said:


> Mad_Cabbie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where have They All Gone..?
> 
> My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> The best road to progress is freedom's road.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> 
> John F. Kennedy Quotes - BrainyQuote
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love the stuff that JFK said, but just how much did he actually contribute to the nation?
> 
> It's a sore spot that can't be addressed ... we can't question his legacy because he was shot.
> 
> Talking about putting a man on the moon was great TV, but HE did it? We would not have done this without him?
> 
> Not meaning this as a troll, just a reality check.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I recall that he brought the country together, it just felt good to have him as President.
Click to expand...


When he was alive, we were not as together as many claim. JFK was treated by the right in much the same way that Obama is. Elitist, Commie, Liberal, un American.......CATHOLIC

After he was shot he became a martyr


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## BlindBoo

rightwinger said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad_Cabbie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love the stuff that JFK said, but just how much did he actually contribute to the nation?
> 
> It's a sore spot that can't be addressed ... we can't question his legacy because he was shot.
> 
> Talking about putting a man on the moon was great TV, but HE did it? We would not have done this without him?
> 
> Not meaning this as a troll, just a reality check.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I recall that he brought the country together, it just felt good to have him as President.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When he was alive, we were not as together as many claim. JFK was treated by the right in much the same way that Obama is. Elitist, Commie, Liberal, un American.......CATHOLIC
> 
> After he was shot he became a martyr
Click to expand...


For those who want to understand the political climate during his presidency I suggest this book.

Dallas 1963 : NPR


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## editec

The ANTI-PAPISTRY of the Republicans at the time of his election was quite evident.

I recall standing on the playground while one of my fellow students explained to us that Kennedy would take his orders from the POPE.

the GOP really hasn't changed as much as we'd like to think.

It was always the anti working man, anti immigrant, anti catholic, anti minority, handmaided to the RICH party.

ABout t5he only thing that has really changed is that now it welcomes fundamentalist religious nutters.

there was a time when no self respecting Republican would rub shoulders with such notwits.


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## LeftofLeft

rightwinger said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad_Cabbie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love the stuff that JFK said, but just how much did he actually contribute to the nation?
> 
> It's a sore spot that can't be addressed ... we can't question his legacy because he was shot.
> 
> Talking about putting a man on the moon was great TV, but HE did it? We would not have done this without him?
> 
> Not meaning this as a troll, just a reality check.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I recall that he brought the country together, it just felt good to have him as President.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When he was alive, we were not as together as many claim. JFK was treated by the right in much the same way that Obama is. Elitist, Commie, Liberal, un American.......CATHOLIC
> 
> After he was shot he became a martyr
Click to expand...


From the looks of this image, Bush was treated the same as JFK, too. People still call him a war criminal and want him tried by a jury of corrupt nations.


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## rightwinger

LeftofLeft said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I recall that he brought the country together, it just felt good to have him as President.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When he was alive, we were not as together as many claim. JFK was treated by the right in much the same way that Obama is. Elitist, Commie, Liberal, un American.......CATHOLIC
> 
> After he was shot he became a martyr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From the looks of this image, Bush was treated the same as JFK, too. People still call him a war criminal and want him tried by a jury of corrupt nations.
Click to expand...


War criminal?

For what?


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## Kosh

JFK was the radical in his family as they leaned far left. JFK's dad was admirer or Hitler.

JFK also triggered (four months before his death) a huge build up of American forces in Vietnam from 900 to 18,000.

JFK would not fit into today's Democratic party.

Because of JFK being catholic the paranoia of LBJ being challenged for elections cause him to ban any all churches from being able to contribute to political campaigns.

The communism that JFK opposed to during his presidency is now what his party is wanting for America.


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## BlindBoo

Kosh said:


> JFK was the radical in his family as they leaned far left. JFK's dad was admirer or Hitler.
> 
> JFK also triggered (four months before his death) a huge build up of American forces in Vietnam from 900 to 18,000.
> 
> JFK would not fit into today's Democratic party.
> 
> Because of JFK being catholic the paranoia of LBJ being challenged for elections cause him to ban any all churches from being able to contribute to political campaigns.
> 
> The communism that JFK opposed to during his presidency is now what his party is wanting for America.



Joe Kennedy Sr. did not like the left or FDR.  Like many Americans, Charles Lindbergh, Prescott Bush, he supported far right wing fascism.  Joe Jr. lost his life fighting Hitler.  John also served in the war.


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## skye

The only war criminal and anti-American  here is Hussein Obama.... and I can not imagine any two men more different... It's sad  and  depressing just to talk about them both in the same breath.


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## Lumpy 1

rightwinger said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad_Cabbie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love the stuff that JFK said, but just how much did he actually contribute to the nation?
> 
> It's a sore spot that can't be addressed ... we can't question his legacy because he was shot.
> 
> Talking about putting a man on the moon was great TV, but HE did it? We would not have done this without him?
> 
> Not meaning this as a troll, just a reality check.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I recall that he brought the country together, it just felt good to have him as President.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When he was alive, we were not as together as many claim. JFK was treated by the right in much the same way that Obama is. Elitist, Commie, Liberal, un American.......CATHOLIC
> 
> After he was shot he became a martyr
Click to expand...


Kennedy would be considered a Tea Party conservative now and persecuted by the lefties as a crazy man.

There is no serious comparison to Obama other than the "D".


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## bendog

Yet, he and Goldwater were, if not actual friends, very respectful of one another's views.  Possibly, Goldwater's experience as a Jew gave him empathy.  Of course JFK was a politician, who used technical camera stuff to win a debate on style and not substance, and I don't doubt he cheated in Ill in the election.  But, he and Goldwater planned a series of debates for the heart and soul.  I've no doubt that liberalism would have carried the day on economics, but given civil rights and the south, it wouldn't have been an easy election.  Still, I don't doubt that the next decade would have been more civil.  And the teapartiers were the youth back then.


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## Connery

JFK had better taste in women than Obama does.


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## Gracie

Below, the last words of the speech Kennedy planned to give in Texas the night he was assassinated:






> Neither the fanatics nor the faint-hearted are needed. And our duty as a Party is not to our Party alone, but to the nation, and, indeed, to all mankind. Our duty is not merely the preservation of political power but the preservation of peace and freedom.
> So let us not be petty when our cause is so great. Let us not quarrel amongst ourselves when our Nation's future is at stake.
> 
> Let us stand together with renewed confidence in our cause -- united in our heritage of the past and our hopes for the future -- and determined that this land we love shall lead all mankind into new frontiers of peace and abundance.



Read The Last Lines Of The Speech JFK Would Have Given The Night Of His Assassination

Boy, do we need another Kennedy clone. I miss him.


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## JakeStarkey

Lumpy 1 said:


> rightwinger said:
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> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I recall that he brought the country together, it just felt good to have him as President.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When he was alive, we were not as together as many claim. JFK was treated by the right in much the same way that Obama is. Elitist, Commie, Liberal, un American.......CATHOLIC
> 
> After he was shot he became a martyr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Kennedy would be considered a Tea Party conservative now and persecuted by the lefties as a crazy man.
> 
> There is no serious comparison to Obama other than the "D".
Click to expand...


No, he wouldn't.  He would have supported the ACA in a heart beat.  He would have called the TeaPoCrap Party nothing but the John Birch Society recycled.


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## Warrior102

JFK was a good man. 
He wouldn't have a fucking thing to do with today's Libberhoids... /Democraps


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## Warrior102

Connery said:


> JFK had better taste in women than Obama does.



He was doing Elizabeth Montgomery too...


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## Connery

Warrior102 said:


> Connery said:
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> JFK had better taste in women than Obama does.
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> He was doing Elizabeth Montgomery too...
Click to expand...


..bewitching information..

His times and presidency had different pressures than those faced by recent presidents.


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## Lumpy 1

JakeStarkey said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> When he was alive, we were not as together as many claim. JFK was treated by the right in much the same way that Obama is. Elitist, Commie, Liberal, un American.......CATHOLIC
> 
> After he was shot he became a martyr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kennedy would be considered a Tea Party conservative now and persecuted by the lefties as a crazy man.
> 
> There is no serious comparison to Obama other than the "D".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, he wouldn't.  He would have supported the ACA in a heart beat.  He would have called the TeaPoCrap Party nothing but the John Birch Society recycled.
Click to expand...


You read the quotes, is there a Democrat alive that would follow those quotes?


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## JakeStarkey

Lumpy 1 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
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> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kennedy would be considered a Tea Party conservative now and persecuted by the lefties as a crazy man.
> 
> There is no serious comparison to Obama other than the "D".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, he wouldn't.  He would have supported the ACA in a heart beat.  He would have called the TeaPoCrap Party nothing but the John Birch Society recycled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You read the quotes, is there a Democrat alive that would follow those quotes?
Click to expand...


JFK would spit on the TeaPoCrap Party and you know it.


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## Lumpy 1

JakeStarkey said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
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> JakeStarkey said:
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> No, he wouldn't.  He would have supported the ACA in a heart beat.  He would have called the TeaPoCrap Party nothing but the John Birch Society recycled.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You read the quotes, is there a Democrat alive that would follow those quotes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> JFK would spit on the TeaPoCrap Party and you know it.
Click to expand...


Perhaps you missed this quote..

Tolerance implies no lack of commitment to one's own beliefs. Rather it condemns the oppression or persecution of others.
John F. Kennedy

Well, we're off to see "Thor", catch you later..


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## whitehall

Some presidents have the ability to make off the cuff comments that become instant hits. The "great communicator" Ronnie Reagan was such a politician. JFK was a scripted president. The media loved him so much that his goof about a slang word in German "berliner" that translated to jelly donut could have ruined his speech in Germany but the media ignored the gaffe and turned the speech into an instant hit. The world was relieved that the United States felt empathy for East Germans who were isolated by the Berlin Wall but like so much else about the JFK administration the speech was meaningless. It is generally ignored by the Kennedy culture but it is acknowledged by scholars that the Pulitzer Prize for his book "Profiles in Courage" was fraudulent because Sorenson admitted that he wrote it.


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## rightwinger

Lumpy 1 said:


> rightwinger said:
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> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I recall that he brought the country together, it just felt good to have him as President.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When he was alive, we were not as together as many claim. JFK was treated by the right in much the same way that Obama is. Elitist, Commie, Liberal, un American.......CATHOLIC
> 
> After he was shot he became a martyr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Kennedy would be considered a Tea Party conservative now and persecuted by the lefties as a crazy man.
> 
> There is no serious comparison to Obama other than the "D".
Click to expand...


Bull shit

Kennedy was much more liberal than Obama. Conservatives of the day were much more liberal than today's conservatives


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## rightwinger

Lumpy 1 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
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> Kennedy would be considered a Tea Party conservative now and persecuted by the lefties as a crazy man.
> 
> There is no serious comparison to Obama other than the "D".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, he wouldn't.  He would have supported the ACA in a heart beat.  He would have called the TeaPoCrap Party nothing but the John Birch Society recycled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You read the quotes, is there a Democrat alive that would follow those quotes?
Click to expand...


Ummmm....all of them would


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## Stashman

I think the killing of JFK brought about the sad truth to the hearts of millions that there are powerful entity's watching and dictating from the shadows, and the American dream was no longer possible because of it. The truth was not as hard to see in those days like it is today. 

At a time when the threat of communism/socialism were common topics over dinner, JFK brought us Camelot and hope in Americas bright future. Nothing seemed impossible then.

We as a nation understood fully what he was saying during his speech on secret societies. We understood what he meant about a free and uncontrolled press. We knew the importance of his new U.S. Dollars. The days before propaganda and double speak. We saw him as the last true American freedom fighter, and that made us all feel safe in his hands.

When he was killed we not only lost a REAL president, but we lost a dream that still eludes us today. THEY won. We knew as a nation that we were not really in control. Since than there has been puppet President after puppet President.


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## whitehall

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. It doesn't matter what JFK might have done or if he was, sniff, sniff attacked by republicans while he was campaigning. All that stuff is smoke and mirrors. The fact is that JFK was a freaking failure of a president. He gave a brilliant speech in Germany while the Russians were building the Berlin Wall and then he went home and left the East Germans to suffer. He appointed his own brother to cover his ass while he was diddling organized crime runners and hollywood starlets. His A.G. brother spent his time trying to kill Castro and the administration used the CIA in such a flagrantly illegal way that he should have been impeached for trying to raise an army to invade Cuba. The media loved him though and while Russian boomer subs were close enough to the US to nuke us JFK tried a chicken game with Kruchev and brought us to Devcon#2.


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## Stashman

Whitehall, is their something the matter with your noodle? Kennedy was wanting to shut the CIA down. A little research before a post goes a long way.


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## Bfgrn

Lumpy 1 said:


> rightwinger said:
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> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I recall that he brought the country together, it just felt good to have him as President.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When he was alive, we were not as together as many claim. JFK was treated by the right in much the same way that Obama is. Elitist, Commie, Liberal, un American.......CATHOLIC
> 
> After he was shot he became a martyr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Kennedy would be considered a Tea Party conservative now and persecuted by the lefties as a crazy man.
> 
> There is no serious comparison to Obama other than the "D".
Click to expand...


This is often preached by rightwingers, given the fact Kennedy cut some taxes.  However, supply-siders do no have a monopoly on tax cuts.  Kennedy's tax cuts were enacted from a Keynesian perspective to stimulate Aggregate Demand.  

Regardless, lets look at Kennedy's New Frontier.

(1.) The addition of a temporary thirteen-week supplement to jobless benefits,
(2.) The extension of aid to the children of unemployed workers,
(3.) The redevelopment of distressed areas,
(4.) An increase in Social Security payments and the encouragement of earlier retirement,
(5.) An increase in the minimum wage and an extension in coverage,
(6.) The provision of emergency relief to feed grain farmers, and
(7.) The financing of a comprehensive home-building and slum clearance program

Kennedy also expanded the FLSA, passed a bill for collective bargaining rights for federal employees, the Federal Salary Reform Act, and the Contract Work Hours and Safety Standards Act. 

As for education, scholarships and loans were extended, passed the The Educational Television Facilities Act, the Vocational Education Act, and an An estimated one-third of all major New Frontier programs made some form of education a vital element. 

As for welfare, unemployment and welfare benefits were extended, SS benefits increased by 20% and extended to 5 million families, free school lunched to poor children, ADC was expanded and replaced with AFDC,  food distribution to needy Americans increased, The Self-Employed Individuals Tax Retirement Act was passed, and more.

As for civil rights, Affirmative Action was passed, discrimination for public housing was outlawed, and discrimination by government contractors were forbidden. 

As for health care, Kennedy passed the Mental Retardation Facilities and Community Mental Health Centers Construction Act, the Community Health Services and Facilities Act, The Vaccination Assistance Act, strengthened food and drug laws, among other things. 

As for the environment, The Clean Air Act was passed, made major additions to public parks, and water pollution programs were doubled. 

As for women's equal rights, Kennedy set up Presidents Commission on the Status of Women to tackle inequality regarding women. 
New Frontier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


However, some righties think Kennedy would be a Republican today because he passed some tax cuts that were en vogue among the Keynesian during his time.
_(Credit to Auxous)_

"Eighty percent of Republicans are just Democrats that don't know what's going on"
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.


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## gipper

JFK like most of our presidents, made many mistakes, but he was far better than most.  Had the disgusting murderous fool LBJ not had him murdered in Dallas, he intended to end our involvement in Vietnam and come to terms with the USSR. If he had lived, Vietnam might not have happened and untold lives saved.  

It is funny that libs today think he was murdered by right wingers, when LBJ and his many allies were likely the culprits.


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## rightwinger

gipper said:


> JFK like most of our presidents, made many mistakes, but he was far better than most.  Had the disgusting murderous fool LBJ not had him murdered in Dallas, he intended to end our involvement in Vietnam and come to terms with the USSR. If he had lived, Vietnam might not have happened and untold lives saved.
> 
> It is funny that libs today think he was murdered by right wingers, when LBJ and his many allies were likely the culprits.



Oswald did it


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## Bfgrn

whitehall said:


> Woulda, coulda, shoulda. It doesn't matter what JFK might have done or if he was, sniff, sniff attacked by republicans while he was campaigning. All that stuff is smoke and mirrors. The fact is that JFK was a freaking failure of a president. He gave a brilliant speech in Germany while the Russians were building the Berlin Wall and then he went home and left the East Germans to suffer. He appointed his own brother to cover his ass while he was diddling organized crime runners and hollywood starlets. His A.G. brother spent his time trying to kill Castro and the administration used the CIA in such a flagrantly illegal way that he should have been impeached for trying to raise an army to invade Cuba. The media loved him though and while Russian boomer subs were close enough to the US to nuke us JFK tried a chicken game with Kruchev and brought us to Devcon#2.



You know absolutely NOTHING. 

CIA lies are nothing new...

The Bay of Pigs fiasco...





We now knowfrom the CIA's internal history of the Bay of Pigs, which was declassified in 2005that agency officials realized their motley crew of invaders had no chance of victory unless they were reinforced by the U.S. military. But Allen Dulles and Richard Bissell, the top CIA officials, never disclosed this to J.F.K. They clearly thought the young President would cave in the heat of battle, that he would be forced to send in the Marines and Air Force to rescue the beleaguered exiles brigade after it was pinned down on the beaches by Castro's forces. But Kennedywho was concerned about aggravating the U.S. image in Latin America as a Yanqui bully and also feared a Soviet counter move against West Berlinhad warned agency officials that he would not fully intervene. As the invasion quickly bogged down at the swampy landing site, J.F.K. stunned Dulles and Bissell by standing his ground and refusing to escalate the assault.

While he famously took responsibility for the Bay of Pigs debacle in public, privately he lashed out at the Joint Chiefs and especially at the CIA, threatening to "shatter [the agency] into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds." J.F.K. never followed through on this threat, but he did eventually fire Dulles, despite his stature as a legendary spymaster, as well as Bissell.

Weeks after the Cuba fiasco, J.F.K. was still steaming, recalled his friend Assistant Navy Secretary Paul (Red) Fay years later in his memoir, The Pleasure of His Company. "Nobody is going to force me to do anything I don't think is in the best interest of the country," the President told his friend, over a game of checkers at the Kennedy-family compound in Hyannis Port, Mass. "We're not going to plunge into an irresponsible action just because a fanatical fringe in this country puts so-called national pride above national reason. Do you think I'm going to carry on my conscience the responsibility for the wanton maiming and killing of children like our children we saw [playing] here this evening? Do you think I'm going to cause a nuclear exchangefor what? Because I was forced into doing something that I didn't think was proper and right? Well, if you or anybody else thinks I am, he's crazy."

This would become the major theme of the Kennedy presidencyJ.F.K.'s strenuous efforts to keep the country at peace in the face of equally ardent pressures from Washington's warrior caste to go to war.

Warrior For Peace - The Lessons of J.F.K. - TIME


----------



## SFC Ollie

I was too young to worry about politics when Kennedy was murdered. But I'll tell you what I do remember is being sent home from school, and finding my Mother crying. It is the only time in my life I saw that woman cry. And she was a straight ticket republican.........


----------



## whitehall

Bfgrn said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Woulda, coulda, shoulda. It doesn't matter what JFK might have done or if he was, sniff, sniff attacked by republicans while he was campaigning. All that stuff is smoke and mirrors. The fact is that JFK was a freaking failure of a president. He gave a brilliant speech in Germany while the Russians were building the Berlin Wall and then he went home and left the East Germans to suffer. He appointed his own brother to cover his ass while he was diddling organized crime runners and hollywood starlets. His A.G. brother spent his time trying to kill Castro and the administration used the CIA in such a flagrantly illegal way that he should have been impeached for trying to raise an army to invade Cuba. The media loved him though and while Russian boomer subs were close enough to the US to nuke us JFK tried a chicken game with Kruchev and brought us to Devcon#2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know absolutely NOTHING.
> 
> CIA lies are nothing new...
> 
> The Bay of Pigs fiasco...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We now knowfrom the CIA's internal history of the Bay of Pigs, which was declassified in 2005that agency officials realized their motley crew of invaders had no chance of victory unless they were reinforced by the U.S. military. But Allen Dulles and Richard Bissell, the top CIA officials, never disclosed this to J.F.K. They clearly thought the young President would cave in the heat of battle, that he would be forced to send in the Marines and Air Force to rescue the beleaguered exiles brigade after it was pinned down on the beaches by Castro's forces. But Kennedywho was concerned about aggravating the U.S. image in Latin America as a Yanqui bully and also feared a Soviet counter move against West Berlinhad warned agency officials that he would not fully intervene. As the invasion quickly bogged down at the swampy landing site, J.F.K. stunned Dulles and Bissell by standing his ground and refusing to escalate the assault.
> 
> While he famously took responsibility for the Bay of Pigs debacle in public, privately he lashed out at the Joint Chiefs and especially at the CIA, threatening to "shatter [the agency] into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds." J.F.K. never followed through on this threat, but he did eventually fire Dulles, despite his stature as a legendary spymaster, as well as Bissell.
> 
> Weeks after the Cuba fiasco, J.F.K. was still steaming, recalled his friend Assistant Navy Secretary Paul (Red) Fay years later in his memoir, The Pleasure of His Company. "Nobody is going to force me to do anything I don't think is in the best interest of the country," the President told his friend, over a game of checkers at the Kennedy-family compound in Hyannis Port, Mass. "We're not going to plunge into an irresponsible action just because a fanatical fringe in this country puts so-called national pride above national reason. Do you think I'm going to carry on my conscience the responsibility for the wanton maiming and killing of children like our children we saw [playing] here this evening? Do you think I'm going to cause a nuclear exchangefor what? Because I was forced into doing something that I didn't think was proper and right? Well, if you or anybody else thinks I am, he's crazy."
> 
> This would become the major theme of the Kennedy presidencyJ.F.K.'s strenuous efforts to keep the country at peace in the face of equally ardent pressures from Washington's warrior caste to go to war.
> 
> Warrior For Peace - The Lessons of J.F.K. - TIME
Click to expand...


Like it or not Cuba was a sovereign country then as it is now. It isn't surprising that the CIA offered the JFK administration "plausible deniability" for the disaster at the Bay of Pigs but the point is that JFK and his strange brother crafted the plan and authorized the CIA to raise, equip, feed and train an illegal invasion force. What were they thinking? Whatever they were thinking it was an impeachable offense.


----------



## Bfgrn

whitehall said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Woulda, coulda, shoulda. It doesn't matter what JFK might have done or if he was, sniff, sniff attacked by republicans while he was campaigning. All that stuff is smoke and mirrors. The fact is that JFK was a freaking failure of a president. He gave a brilliant speech in Germany while the Russians were building the Berlin Wall and then he went home and left the East Germans to suffer. He appointed his own brother to cover his ass while he was diddling organized crime runners and hollywood starlets. His A.G. brother spent his time trying to kill Castro and the administration used the CIA in such a flagrantly illegal way that he should have been impeached for trying to raise an army to invade Cuba. The media loved him though and while Russian boomer subs were close enough to the US to nuke us JFK tried a chicken game with Kruchev and brought us to Devcon#2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know absolutely NOTHING.
> 
> CIA lies are nothing new...
> 
> The Bay of Pigs fiasco...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We now knowfrom the CIA's internal history of the Bay of Pigs, which was declassified in 2005that agency officials realized their motley crew of invaders had no chance of victory unless they were reinforced by the U.S. military. But Allen Dulles and Richard Bissell, the top CIA officials, never disclosed this to J.F.K. They clearly thought the young President would cave in the heat of battle, that he would be forced to send in the Marines and Air Force to rescue the beleaguered exiles brigade after it was pinned down on the beaches by Castro's forces. But Kennedywho was concerned about aggravating the U.S. image in Latin America as a Yanqui bully and also feared a Soviet counter move against West Berlinhad warned agency officials that he would not fully intervene. As the invasion quickly bogged down at the swampy landing site, J.F.K. stunned Dulles and Bissell by standing his ground and refusing to escalate the assault.
> 
> While he famously took responsibility for the Bay of Pigs debacle in public, privately he lashed out at the Joint Chiefs and especially at the CIA, threatening to "shatter [the agency] into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds." J.F.K. never followed through on this threat, but he did eventually fire Dulles, despite his stature as a legendary spymaster, as well as Bissell.
> 
> Weeks after the Cuba fiasco, J.F.K. was still steaming, recalled his friend Assistant Navy Secretary Paul (Red) Fay years later in his memoir, The Pleasure of His Company. "Nobody is going to force me to do anything I don't think is in the best interest of the country," the President told his friend, over a game of checkers at the Kennedy-family compound in Hyannis Port, Mass. "We're not going to plunge into an irresponsible action just because a fanatical fringe in this country puts so-called national pride above national reason. Do you think I'm going to carry on my conscience the responsibility for the wanton maiming and killing of children like our children we saw [playing] here this evening? Do you think I'm going to cause a nuclear exchangefor what? Because I was forced into doing something that I didn't think was proper and right? Well, if you or anybody else thinks I am, he's crazy."
> 
> This would become the major theme of the Kennedy presidencyJ.F.K.'s strenuous efforts to keep the country at peace in the face of equally ardent pressures from Washington's warrior caste to go to war.
> 
> Warrior For Peace - The Lessons of J.F.K. - TIME
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like it or not Cuba was a sovereign country then as it is now. It isn't surprising that the CIA offered the JFK administration "plausible deniability" for the disaster at the Bay of Pigs but the point is that JFK and his strange brother crafted the plan and authorized the CIA to raise, equip, feed and train an illegal invasion force. What were they thinking? Whatever they were thinking it was an impeachable offense.
Click to expand...


Either you have a reading problem or a comprehension problem. Which one is it?

More...

Washington's national-security apparatus had decided there was no living with Castro. During the final months of the Eisenhower Administration, the CIA started planning an invasion of the island, recruiting Cuban exiles who had fled the new regime. Agency officials assured the young President who inherited the invasion plan that it was a "slam dunk," in the words of a future CIA director contemplating another ill-fated U.S. invasion. J.F.K. had deep misgivings, but unwilling to overrule his senior intelligence officials so early in his Administration, he went fatefully ahead with the plan. The doomed Bay of Pigs invasion in April 1961 became the Kennedy Administration's first great trauma.

We now knowfrom the CIA's internal history of the Bay of Pigs, which was declassified in 2005that agency officials realized their motley crew of invaders had no chance of victory unless they were reinforced by the U.S. military. But Allen Dulles and Richard Bissell, the top CIA officials, never disclosed this to J.F.K. They clearly thought the young President would cave in the heat of battle, that he would be forced to send in the Marines and Air Force to rescue the beleaguered exiles brigade after it was pinned down on the beaches by Castro's forces. But Kennedywho was concerned about aggravating the U.S. image in Latin America as a Yanqui bully and also feared a Soviet countermove against West Berlinhad warned agency officials that he would not fully intervene. As the invasion quickly bogged down at the swampy landing site, J.F.K. stunned Dulles and Bissell by standing his ground and refusing to escalate the assault.

Read more: Warrior For Peace - The Lessons of J.F.K. - TIME Warrior For Peace - The Lessons of J.F.K. - TIME


----------



## whitehall

Bfgrn said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know absolutely NOTHING.
> 
> CIA lies are nothing new...
> 
> The Bay of Pigs fiasco...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We now knowfrom the CIA's internal history of the Bay of Pigs, which was declassified in 2005that agency officials realized their motley crew of invaders had no chance of victory unless they were reinforced by the U.S. military. But Allen Dulles and Richard Bissell, the top CIA officials, never disclosed this to J.F.K. They clearly thought the young President would cave in the heat of battle, that he would be forced to send in the Marines and Air Force to rescue the beleaguered exiles brigade after it was pinned down on the beaches by Castro's forces. But Kennedywho was concerned about aggravating the U.S. image in Latin America as a Yanqui bully and also feared a Soviet counter move against West Berlinhad warned agency officials that he would not fully intervene. As the invasion quickly bogged down at the swampy landing site, J.F.K. stunned Dulles and Bissell by standing his ground and refusing to escalate the assault.
> 
> While he famously took responsibility for the Bay of Pigs debacle in public, privately he lashed out at the Joint Chiefs and especially at the CIA, threatening to "shatter [the agency] into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds." J.F.K. never followed through on this threat, but he did eventually fire Dulles, despite his stature as a legendary spymaster, as well as Bissell.
> 
> Weeks after the Cuba fiasco, J.F.K. was still steaming, recalled his friend Assistant Navy Secretary Paul (Red) Fay years later in his memoir, The Pleasure of His Company. "Nobody is going to force me to do anything I don't think is in the best interest of the country," the President told his friend, over a game of checkers at the Kennedy-family compound in Hyannis Port, Mass. "We're not going to plunge into an irresponsible action just because a fanatical fringe in this country puts so-called national pride above national reason. Do you think I'm going to carry on my conscience the responsibility for the wanton maiming and killing of children like our children we saw [playing] here this evening? Do you think I'm going to cause a nuclear exchangefor what? Because I was forced into doing something that I didn't think was proper and right? Well, if you or anybody else thinks I am, he's crazy."
> 
> This would become the major theme of the Kennedy presidencyJ.F.K.'s strenuous efforts to keep the country at peace in the face of equally ardent pressures from Washington's warrior caste to go to war.
> 
> Warrior For Peace - The Lessons of J.F.K. - TIME
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like it or not Cuba was a sovereign country then as it is now. It isn't surprising that the CIA offered the JFK administration "plausible deniability" for the disaster at the Bay of Pigs but the point is that JFK and his strange brother crafted the plan and authorized the CIA to raise, equip, feed and train an illegal invasion force. What were they thinking? Whatever they were thinking it was an impeachable offense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Either you have a reading problem or a comprehension problem. Which one is it?
> 
> More...
> 
> Washington's national-security apparatus had decided there was no living with Castro. During the final months of the Eisenhower Administration, the CIA started planning an invasion of the island, recruiting Cuban exiles who had fled the new regime. Agency officials assured the young President who inherited the invasion plan that it was a "slam dunk," in the words of a future CIA director contemplating another ill-fated U.S. invasion. J.F.K. had deep misgivings, but unwilling to overrule his senior intelligence officials so early in his Administration, he went fatefully ahead with the plan. The doomed Bay of Pigs invasion in April 1961 became the Kennedy Administration's first great trauma.
> 
> We now knowfrom the CIA's internal history of the Bay of Pigs, which was declassified in 2005that agency officials realized their motley crew of invaders had no chance of victory unless they were reinforced by the U.S. military. But Allen Dulles and Richard Bissell, the top CIA officials, never disclosed this to J.F.K. They clearly thought the young President would cave in the heat of battle, that he would be forced to send in the Marines and Air Force to rescue the beleaguered exiles brigade after it was pinned down on the beaches by Castro's forces. But Kennedywho was concerned about aggravating the U.S. image in Latin America as a Yanqui bully and also feared a Soviet countermove against West Berlinhad warned agency officials that he would not fully intervene. As the invasion quickly bogged down at the swampy landing site, J.F.K. stunned Dulles and Bissell by standing his ground and refusing to escalate the assault.
> 
> Read more: Warrior For Peace - The Lessons of J.F.K. - TIME Warrior For Peace - The Lessons of J.F.K. - TIME
Click to expand...



Are the JFK defenders claiming that the "washington-national security apparatus" was independent of the JFK administration? Was the president ignorant of the fact that the rag-tag invasion army he authorized was incapable of doing the job that he authorized the CIA to perform? The fact that JFK left the Cuban invasion force to die on the Bay of Pigs beach is no defense for the incompetence that created the problem.


----------



## Lumpy 1

rightwinger said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, he wouldn't.  He would have supported the ACA in a heart beat.  He would have called the TeaPoCrap Party nothing but the John Birch Society recycled.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You read the quotes, is there a Democrat alive that would follow those quotes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ummmm....all of them would
Click to expand...


More comedy rightwinger...


----------



## Bfgrn

whitehall said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like it or not Cuba was a sovereign country then as it is now. It isn't surprising that the CIA offered the JFK administration "plausible deniability" for the disaster at the Bay of Pigs but the point is that JFK and his strange brother crafted the plan and authorized the CIA to raise, equip, feed and train an illegal invasion force. What were they thinking? Whatever they were thinking it was an impeachable offense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Either you have a reading problem or a comprehension problem. Which one is it?
> 
> More...
> 
> Washington's national-security apparatus had decided there was no living with Castro. During the final months of the Eisenhower Administration, the CIA started planning an invasion of the island, recruiting Cuban exiles who had fled the new regime. Agency officials assured the young President who inherited the invasion plan that it was a "slam dunk," in the words of a future CIA director contemplating another ill-fated U.S. invasion. J.F.K. had deep misgivings, but unwilling to overrule his senior intelligence officials so early in his Administration, he went fatefully ahead with the plan. The doomed Bay of Pigs invasion in April 1961 became the Kennedy Administration's first great trauma.
> 
> We now knowfrom the CIA's internal history of the Bay of Pigs, which was declassified in 2005that agency officials realized their motley crew of invaders had no chance of victory unless they were reinforced by the U.S. military. But Allen Dulles and Richard Bissell, the top CIA officials, never disclosed this to J.F.K. They clearly thought the young President would cave in the heat of battle, that he would be forced to send in the Marines and Air Force to rescue the beleaguered exiles brigade after it was pinned down on the beaches by Castro's forces. But Kennedywho was concerned about aggravating the U.S. image in Latin America as a Yanqui bully and also feared a Soviet countermove against West Berlinhad warned agency officials that he would not fully intervene. As the invasion quickly bogged down at the swampy landing site, J.F.K. stunned Dulles and Bissell by standing his ground and refusing to escalate the assault.
> 
> Read more: Warrior For Peace - The Lessons of J.F.K. - TIME Warrior For Peace - The Lessons of J.F.K. - TIME
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Are the JFK defenders claiming that the "washington-national security apparatus" was independent of the JFK administration? Was the president ignorant of the fact that the rag-tag invasion army he authorized was incapable of doing the job that he authorized the CIA to perform? The fact that JFK left the Cuban invasion force to die on the Bay of Pigs beach is no defense for the incompetence that created the problem.
Click to expand...


Reading aversion whitehall? Do I have to copy and paste the whole article??

more...

This would become the major theme of the Kennedy presidencyJ.F.K.'s strenuous efforts to keep the country at peace in the face of equally ardent pressures from Washington's warrior caste to go to war. Caught between the communist challenges in Laos, Berlin, Vietnam and Latin America and the bellicosity of his national-security élite, Kennedy again and again found a way to sidestep war. In each crisis, he improvised a strategycombining rhetoric that was alternately tough and conciliatory with aggressive backdoor diplomacythat found the way to a peaceful resolution.

Kennedy never again trusted his generals and espionage chiefs after the 1961 fiasco in Cuba, and he became a master at artfully deflecting their militant counsel. "After the Bay of Pigs, Kennedy had contempt for the Joint Chiefs," historian Arthur Schlesinger Jr. recalled over drinks in the hushed, stately rooms of New York City's Century Club not long before his death. "I remember going into his office in the spring of 1961, where he waved some cables at me from General Lemnitzer, who was then in Laos on an inspection tour. And Kennedy said, 'If it hadn't been for the Bay of Pigs, I might have been impressed by this.' I think J.F.K.'s war-hero status allowed him to defy the Joint Chiefs. He dismissed them as a bunch of old men. He thought Lemnitzer was a dope."

President Kennedy never thought much of the CIA either, in part because he and his indispensable brother, Attorney General Robert Kennedy, became convinced that the agency was not just incompetent but also a rogue operation. After the Bay of Pigsand particularly the Cuban missile crisisthe Kennedys seemed more concerned with defusing Cuba as a political issue at home, where it was a rallying cry on the right, than with actually enforcing a regime change. The darker efforts against Castrothe sinister CIA plots to assassinate him in partnership with the Mafiabegan before the Kennedy Administration and continued after it ended. Robert Kennedya legendary crusader against organized crimethought he had shut down the murder plots after two CIA officials sheepishly informed him of the agency's pact with the Mob in May 1962. But there was much that the Kennedys did not know about the agency's more shadowy operations.

"I thought and I still feel that the CIA did wet work on its own," says John Seigenthaler, Robert Kennedy's administrative aide at the Justice Department and later publisher of the Tennessean. "They were way too in thrall to 007... We were caught in the reality of the cold war, and the agency obviously had a role to play. But I don't think the Kennedys believed you could trust much of what they said. We were trying to find our way out of the cold war, but the CIA certainly didn't want to."

Nor did President Kennedy have a firm hand on the Pentagon. "Certainly we did not control the Joint Chiefs of Staff," said Schlesinger, looking back at the Kennedy White House. It was a chilling observation, considering the throbbing nuclear tensions of the period. The former White House aide revealed that J.F.K. was less afraid of Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev's ordering a surprise attack than he was "that something would go wrong in a Dr. Strangelove kind of way"with a politically unstable U.S. general snapping and launching World War III.

Kennedy was particularly alarmed by his trigger-happy Air Force chief, cigar-chomping General Curtis LeMay, who firmly believed the U.S. should unleash a pre-emptive nuclear broadside against Russia while America still enjoyed massive arms superiority. Throughout the 13-day Cuban missile crisis, Kennedy was under relentless pressure from LeMay and nearly his entire national-security circle to "fry" Cuba, in the Air Force chief's memorable language. But J.F.K., whose only key support in the increasingly tense Cabinet Room meetings came from his brother Bobby and Defense Secretary Robert McNamara, kept searching for a nonmilitary solution. When Kennedy, assiduously working the back channels to the Kremlin, finally succeeded in cutting a deal with Khrushchev, the world survived "the most dangerous moment in human history," in Schlesinger's words. But no one at the time knew just how dangerous. Years later, attending the 40th anniversary of the crisis at a conference in Havana, Schlesinger, Sorensen and McNamara were stunned to learn that if U.S. forces had attacked Cuba, Russian commanders on the island were authorized to respond with tactical and strategic nuclear missiles. The Joint Chiefs had assured Kennedy during the crisis that "no nuclear warheads were in Cuba at the time," Sorensen grimly noted. "They were wrong." If Kennedy had bowed to his military advisers' pressure, a vast swath of the urban U.S. within missile range of the Soviet installations in Cuba could have been reduced to radioactive rubble.

Read more: Warrior For Peace - The Lessons of J.F.K. - TIME Warrior For Peace - The Lessons of J.F.K. - TIME

The great enemy of truth is very often not the lie  deliberate, contrived and dishonest  but the myth  persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
President John F. Kennedy  Commencement Address at Yale University, Old Campus, New Haven, Connecticut, June 11, 1962


----------



## tinydancer

It always hurts this time of year. 

*Has anybody here seen my old friend Abraham?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
He freed a lot of people,
But it seems the good they die young.
You know, I just looked around and he's gone.

Anybody here seen my old friend John?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
He freed a lot of people,
But it seems the good they die young.
I just looked around and he's gone.

Anybody here seen my old friend Martin?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
He freed a lot of people,
But it seems the good they die young.
I just looked 'round and he's gone.

Didn't you love the things that they stood for?
Didn't they try to find some good for you and me?
And we'll be free
Some day soon, and it's a-gonna be one day ...

Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up over the hill,
With Abraham, Martin and John.*

It always plays in my head around this time.

Thanks Dick.

Dick Holler


----------



## Bfgrn

whitehall said:


> Some presidents have the ability to make off the cuff comments that become instant hits. *The "great communicator" Ronnie Reagan was such a politician.* JFK was a scripted president. The media loved him so much that his goof about a slang word in German "berliner" that translated to jelly donut could have ruined his speech in Germany but the media ignored the gaffe and turned the speech into an instant hit. The world was relieved that the United States felt empathy for East Germans who were isolated by the Berlin Wall but like so much else about the JFK administration the speech was meaningless. It is generally ignored by the Kennedy culture but it is acknowledged by scholars that the Pulitzer Prize for his book "Profiles in Courage" was fraudulent because Sorenson admitted that he wrote it.





Do you mean THIS Ronnie Reagan?

"Washington couldn't tell a lie, Nixon couldn't tell the truth, and Reagan couldn't tell the difference."
Mort Sahl

Thank You Mr. President - 49 second video







Reagan and the press...

When President Reagan first took over the oval office, we would throw questions at President Reagan, and he would answer them.

Well, his three top aides were apoplectic. They didnt know what was coming out of his mouth. They taught the president to say this is not a press conference, and they had him quite trained on that.

And one day we asked him what was happening, and he said to us: I cant answer that. We said why? 

Because they wont let me, he pointed to Baker, Meese and Deaver standing behind, very grim. 

They wont let meI said, but youre the President


----------



## Bfgrn

whitehall said:


> Some presidents have the ability to make off the cuff comments that become instant hits. The "great communicator" Ronnie Reagan was such a politician. JFK was a scripted president. The media loved him so much that his goof about a slang word in German "berliner" that translated to jelly donut could have ruined his speech in Germany but the media ignored the gaffe and turned the speech into an instant hit. The world was relieved that the United States felt empathy for East Germans who were isolated by the Berlin Wall but like so much else about the JFK administration the speech was meaningless. It is generally ignored by the Kennedy culture but it is acknowledged by scholars that the Pulitzer Prize for his book* "Profiles in Courage" was fraudulent because Sorenson admitted that he wrote it.*



Proof? Link??


----------



## Bfgrn

Lumpy 1 said:


> Where have They All Gone..?
> 
> My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> The best road to progress is freedom's road.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> 
> John F. Kennedy Quotes - BrainyQuote



Hey Lumpy, PLEASE give us the name of any tea party conservative, ANY conservative or Republican who would utter these words?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWNhWANkq0Q]President Kennedy calls out the steel companies (1962) - YouTube[/ame]

*
News Conference 30 (April 11, 1962)*

President John F. Kennedy
State Department Auditorium, Washington, D.C.
Wednesday, April 11, 1962, 3:30 p.m.

Official White House Transcript

THE PRESIDENT: "Good afternoon. I have several announcements to make.

The simultaneous and identical actions of United States Steel and other leading steel corporations, increasing steel prices by some 6 dollars a ton, constitute a wholly unjustifiable and irresponsible defiance of the public interest.

In this serious hour in our nation's history, when we are confronted with grave crises in Berlin and Southeast Asia, when we are devoting our energies to economic recovery and stability, when we are asking Reservists to leave their homes and families for months on end, and servicemen to risk their lives -- and four were killed in the last two days in Viet Nam -- and asking union members to hold down their wage requests, at a time when restraint and sacrifice are being asked of every citizen, the American people will find it hard, as I do, to accept a situation in which a tiny handful of steel executives whose pursuit of private power and profit exceeds their sense of public responsibility can show such utter contempt for the interests of 185 million Americans.

...a few gigantic corporations have decided to increase prices in ruthless disregard of their public responsibilities.

Some time ago I asked each American to consider what he would do for his country and I asked the steel companies. In the last 24 hours we had their answer."


----------



## rightwinger

Lumpy 1 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You read the quotes, is there a Democrat alive that would follow those quotes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ummmm....all of them would
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More comedy rightwinger...
Click to expand...


Only the right is in violent opposition to those quotes from JFK. They were then.....still are today


----------



## tinydancer

Bfgrn said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where have They All Gone..?
> 
> My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> The best road to progress is freedom's road.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> 
> John F. Kennedy Quotes - BrainyQuote
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Lumpy, PLEASE give us the name of any tea party conservative, ANY conservative or Republican who would utter these words?
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWNhWANkq0Q]President Kennedy calls out the steel companies (1962) - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> *
> News Conference 30 (April 11, 1962)*
> 
> President John F. Kennedy
> State Department Auditorium, Washington, D.C.
> Wednesday, April 11, 1962, 3:30 p.m.
> 
> Official White House Transcript
> 
> THE PRESIDENT: "Good afternoon. I have several announcements to make.
> 
> The simultaneous and identical actions of United States Steel and other leading steel corporations, increasing steel prices by some 6 dollars a ton, constitute a wholly unjustifiable and irresponsible defiance of the public interest.
> 
> In this serious hour in our nation's history, when we are confronted with grave crises in Berlin and Southeast Asia, when we are devoting our energies to economic recovery and stability, when we are asking Reservists to leave their homes and families for months on end, and servicemen to risk their lives -- and four were killed in the last two days in Viet Nam -- and asking union members to hold down their wage requests, at a time when restraint and sacrifice are being asked of every citizen, the American people will find it hard, as I do, to accept a situation in which a tiny handful of steel executives whose pursuit of private power and profit exceeds their sense of public responsibility can show such utter contempt for the interests of 185 million Americans.
> 
> ...a few gigantic corporations have decided to increase prices in ruthless disregard of their public responsibilities.
> 
> Some time ago I asked each American to consider what he would do for his country and I asked the steel companies. In the last 24 hours we had their answer."
Click to expand...


Do you just wake up in the morning and go

"_I'm going to be an asshole on the USMB today"_

If that has been your goal, you have achieved it.


----------



## editec

whitehall said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Woulda, coulda, shoulda. It doesn't matter what JFK might have done or if he was, sniff, sniff attacked by republicans while he was campaigning. All that stuff is smoke and mirrors. The fact is that JFK was a freaking failure of a president. He gave a brilliant speech in Germany while the Russians were building the Berlin Wall and then he went home and left the East Germans to suffer. He appointed his own brother to cover his ass while he was diddling organized crime runners and hollywood starlets. His A.G. brother spent his time trying to kill Castro and the administration used the CIA in such a flagrantly illegal way that he should have been impeached for trying to raise an army to invade Cuba. The media loved him though and while Russian boomer subs were close enough to the US to nuke us JFK tried a chicken game with Kruchev and brought us to Devcon#2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know absolutely NOTHING.
> 
> CIA lies are nothing new...
> 
> The Bay of Pigs fiasco...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We now know&#8212;from the CIA's internal history of the Bay of Pigs, which was declassified in 2005&#8212;that agency officials realized their motley crew of invaders had no chance of victory unless they were reinforced by the U.S. military. But Allen Dulles and Richard Bissell, the top CIA officials, never disclosed this to J.F.K. They clearly thought the young President would cave in the heat of battle, that he would be forced to send in the Marines and Air Force to rescue the beleaguered exiles brigade after it was pinned down on the beaches by Castro's forces. But Kennedy&#8212;who was concerned about aggravating the U.S. image in Latin America as a Yanqui bully and also feared a Soviet counter move against West Berlin&#8212;had warned agency officials that he would not fully intervene. As the invasion quickly bogged down at the swampy landing site, J.F.K. stunned Dulles and Bissell by standing his ground and refusing to escalate the assault.
> 
> While he famously took responsibility for the Bay of Pigs debacle in public, privately he lashed out at the Joint Chiefs and especially at the CIA, threatening to "shatter [the agency] into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds." J.F.K. never followed through on this threat, but he did eventually fire Dulles, despite his stature as a legendary spymaster, as well as Bissell.
> 
> Weeks after the Cuba fiasco, J.F.K. was still steaming, recalled his friend Assistant Navy Secretary Paul (Red) Fay years later in his memoir, The Pleasure of His Company. "Nobody is going to force me to do anything I don't think is in the best interest of the country," the President told his friend, over a game of checkers at the Kennedy-family compound in Hyannis Port, Mass. "We're not going to plunge into an irresponsible action just because a fanatical fringe in this country puts so-called national pride above national reason. Do you think I'm going to carry on my conscience the responsibility for the wanton maiming and killing of children like our children we saw [playing] here this evening? Do you think I'm going to cause a nuclear exchange&#8212;for what? Because I was forced into doing something that I didn't think was proper and right? Well, if you or anybody else thinks I am, he's crazy."
> 
> This would become the major theme of the Kennedy presidency&#8212;J.F.K.'s strenuous efforts to keep the country at peace in the face of equally ardent pressures from Washington's warrior caste to go to war.
> 
> Warrior For Peace - The Lessons of J.F.K. - TIME
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like it or not Cuba was a sovereign country then as it is now. It isn't surprising that the CIA offered the JFK administration "plausible deniability" for the disaster at the Bay of Pigs but the point is that JFK and his strange brother crafted the plan and authorized the CIA to raise, equip, feed and train an illegal invasion force. What were they thinking? Whatever they were thinking it was an impeachable offense.
Click to expand...


You have been misinformed, amigo.

The bay of  pigs event was iun the planning and development stage before JFK took office.

here's a timeline of events leading up to the event


Bay of Pigs Chronology


----------



## tinydancer

rightwinger said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ummmm....all of them would
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More comedy rightwinger...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only the right is in violent opposition to those quotes from JFK. They were then.....still are today
Click to expand...


Fuck you darlin. Both brothers would have been tea party patriots. 

You best check back on who really hated JFK and backed LBJ to transform America into a welfare country.


----------



## tinydancer

Now screw all of the idiocy of politics and let's get down to the impact of his life and how he awakened the souls of so many young people.

JFK brought life into the White House. It wasn't a place for old withered men anymore. It became real. And D or R we all loved this President.


----------



## Bfgrn

tinydancer said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> More comedy rightwinger...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only the right is in violent opposition to those quotes from JFK. They were then.....still are today
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fuck you darlin. Both brothers would have been tea party patriots.
> 
> You best check back on who really hated JFK and backed LBJ to transform America into a welfare country.
Click to expand...


I wonder where you get these idiotic ideas? I would be happy to destroy your bullshit claims.

Tell you what TD, read through JFK's agenda and bring back all the 'tea party patriots' stuff...

A big part of LBJ's Great Society was started by President Kennedy and the New Frontier.

Who was John F. Kennedy? The President who proposed and or planned the following:

Medicare
Civil Rights
The War on Poverty
*
Economy*

The addition of a temporary thirteen-week supplement to jobless benefits,

The extension of aid to the children of unemployed workers,

The redevelopment of distressed areas,

An increase in Social Security payments and the encouragement of earlier retirement,

An increase in the minimum wage and an extension in coverage,

The provision of emergency relief to feed grain farmers, and

The financing of a comprehensive homebuilding and slum clearance program.

*Labor*

Amendments to the Fair Labor Standards Act in 1961 greatly expanded the FLSA's scope in the retail trade sector and increased the minimum wage 

An Executive Order was issued (1962) which provided federal employees with collective bargaining rights.

The Federal Salary Reform Act (1962) established the principle of maintaining federal white-collar wages at a level with those paid to employees performing similar jobs in private enterprises."

A Postal Service and Federal Employees Salary Act was passed (1962) to reform Federal white-collar statutory salary systems, adjust postal rates, and establish a standard for adjusting annuities under the Civil Service Retirement Act.

The Contract Work Hours and Safety Standards Act (1962) established standards for hours, overtime compensation, and safety for employees working on federal and federally funded contracts and subcontracts.

A pilot program was launched to train and place youths in jobs.

Paid overtime was granted to workers on government financed construction jobs for work in excess of 40 hours.

*Education*

Scholarships and student loans were broadened under existing laws by Kennedy, and new means of specialized aid to education were invented or expanded by the president, including an increase in funds for libraries and school lunches, the provision of funds to teach the deaf, the handicapped, the retarded, and the exceptional child, the authorization of literacy training under Manpower Development, the allocation of President funds to stop dropouts, a quadrupling of vocational education, and working together with schools on delinquency. Altogether, these measures attacked serious educational problems and freed up local funds for use on general construction and salaries.

Various measures were introduced which aided educational television, college dormitories, medical education, and community libraries.

The Educational Television Facilities Act (1962) provided federal grants for new station construction, enabling in-class-room instructional television to operate in thousands of elementary schools, offering primarily religious instruction, music, and arts.

The Health Professions Educational Assistance Act (1963) provided $175 million over a three-year period for matching grants for the construction of facilities for teaching physicians, dentists, nurses, podiatrists, optometrists, pharmacists, and other health professionals. The Act also created a loan program of up to $2000 per annum for students of optometry, dentistry, and medicine.

The Vocational Education Act (1963) significantly increased enrollment in vocational education.

A law was enacted (1961) to encourage and facilitate the training of teachers of the deaf.

The Fulbright-Hays Act of 1961 enlarged the scope of the Fulbright program while extending it geographically.

An estimated one-third of all major New Frontier programs made some form of education a vital element, and the Office of Education called it the most significant legislative period in its hundred-year history.

*Welfare*

Unemployment and welfare benefits were expanded.

In 1961, Social Security benefits were increased by 20% and provision for early retirement was introduced, enabling workers to retire at the age of sixty-two while receiving partial benefits.

The Social Security Amendments of 1961 permitted male workers to elect early retirement age 62, increased minimum benefits, liberalized the benefit payments to aged widow, widower, or surviving dependent parent, and also liberalized eligibility requirements and the retirement test.

The 1962 amendments to the Social Security Act authorized the federal government to reimburse states for the provision of social services.

The School Lunch Act was amended for authority to begin providing free meals in poverty-stricken areas.

A pilot food stamp program was launched (1961), covering six areas in the United States. In 1962, the program was extended to eighteen areas, feeding 240,000 people.

The Self-Employed Individuals Tax Retirement Act of 1962 provided self-employed people with a tax postponement for income set aside in qualified pension plans.

Various school lunch and school milk programs were extended, enabling 700,000 more children to enjoy a hot school lunch and eighty-five thousand more schools, child care centers, and camps to receive fresh milk.

ADC was extended to whole families (1961).

Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) replaced the Aid to Dependent Children (ADC) program, as coverage was extended to adults caring for dependent children.

A major revision of the public welfare laws was carried out, with a $300 million modernization which emphasized rehabilitation instead of relief.

A temporary antirecession supplement to unemployment compensation was introduced.

Food distribution to needy Americans was increased. In January 1961, the first executive order issued by Kennedy mandated that the Department of Agriculture increase the quantity and variety of foods donated for needy households. This executive order represented a shift in the Commodity Distribution Programs primary purpose, from surplus disposal to that of providing nutritious foods to low-income households.

Social Security benefits were extended to an additional five million Americans.

The Self-Employed Individuals Tax Retirement Act (1962) provided self-employed people with a tax postponement for income set aside in qualified pension plans.

The Public Welfare Amendments of 1962 provided for greater Federal sharing in the cost of rehabilitative services to applicants, recipients, and persons likely to become applicants for public assistance. It increased the Federal share in the cost of public assistance payments, and permitted the States to combine the various categories into one category. The amendments also made permanent the 1961 amendment which extended aid to dependent children to cover children removed from unsuitable homes.

Federal funds were made available for the payment of foster care costs for AFDC-eligible children who had come into state custody.

An act was approved (1963) which extended for one year the period during which responsibility for the placement and foster care of dependent children, under the program of aid to families with dependent children under Title IV of the Social Security Act.

Federal civil service retirement benefits were index-linked to changes in the Consumer Price Index (1962).

*Civil rights*

Various measures were carried out by the Kennedy Justice Department to enforce court orders and existing legislation. The Kennedy Administration promoted a Voter Education Project which led to 688,800 between the 1st of April 1962 and the 1st of November 1964, while the Civil Rights Division brought over forty-two suits in four states in order to secure voting rights for blacks. In addition, Kennedy supported the anti-poll tax amendment, which cleared Congress in September 1962 (although it was not ratified until 1964 as the Twenty-fourth Amendment). As noted by one student of black voting in the South, in relation to the attempts by the Kennedy Administration to promote civil rights, Whereas the Eisenhower lawyers had moved deliberately, the Kennedy-Johnson attorneys pushed the judiciary far more earnestly.

Executive Order 10925 (issued in 1961) combined the federal employment and government contractor agencies into a unified Committee on Equal Employment opportunity (CEEO). This new committee helped to put an end to segregation and discriminatory employment practices (such as only employing African-Americans for low-skilled jobs) in a number of workplaces across the United States.

Discrimination in public housing was prohibited.

The Interstate Commerce Commission made Jim Crow illegal in interstate transportation, having been put under pressure to do so by both the Freedom Riders and the Department of Justice.

Employment of African-Americans in federal jobs such as in the Post office, the Navy, and the Veterans Administration as a result of the Kennedy Administrations affirmative action policies).

The Kennedy Administration forbade government contractors from discriminating against any applicant or employee for employment on the grounds of national origin, color, creed, or race.

The Plan for Progress was launched by the CEEO to persuade large employers to adopt equal opportunity practices. 268 firms with 8 million employees had signed on to this by 1964, while a nationwide study covering the period from May 1961 to June 1963 of 103 corporations showed a Negro gain from 28,940 to 42,738 salaried and from 171,021 to 198,161 hourly paid jobs.

*Housing*

The most comprehensive housing and urban renewal program in American history up until that point was carried out, including the first major provisions for middle-income housing, protection of urban open spaces, public mass transit, and private low-income housing.

Omnibus Housing Bill 1961. In March 1961 Kennedy sent Congress a special message, proposing an ambitious and complex housing program to spur the economy, revitalize cities, and provide affordable housing for middle- and low-income families. The bill proposed spending $3.19 billion and placed major emphasis on improving the existing housing supply, instead of on new housing starts, and creating a cabinet-level Department of Housing and Urban Affairs to oversee the programs. The bill also promised to make the Federal Housing Administration a full partner in urban renewal program by authorizing mortgage loans to finance rehabilitation of homes and urban renewal Committee on housing combined programs for housing, mass transportation, and open space land bills into a single bill.

Urban renewal grants were increased from $2 to $4 million, while an additional 100,000 units of public housing were constructed.

Opportunities were provided for coordinated planning of community development: technical assistance to state and local governments.

Under the Kennedy Administration, there was a change of focus from a wrecker ball approach to small rehabilitation projects in order to preserve existing urban textures.

Funds for housing for the elderly were increased.

Title V of the Housing Act was amended (1961) to make nonfarm rural residents eligible for direct housing loans from the Farmers Home Administration. These changes extended the housing program to towns with a population of up to 2,500.

The Senior Citizens Housing Act (1962) established loans for low-rent apartment projects which were designed to meet the needs of people age 62 and over.

*Unemployment*

To help the unemployed, Kennedy broadened the distribution of surplus food, created a pilot Food Stamp program for poor Americans, directed that preference be given to distressed areas in defense contracts, and expanded the services of U.S. Employment Offices.

Social security benefits were extended to each child whose father was unemployed.

The first accelerated public works program for areas of unemployment since the New Deal was launched.

The first full-scale modernization and expansion of the vocational education laws since 1946 were carried out.

Federal grants were provided to the states enabling them to extend the period covered by unemployment benefit.

The Manpower Development and Training Act of 1962 authorized a three-year program aimed at retraining workers displaced by new technology. The bill did not exclude employed workers from benefiting and it authorized a training allowance for unemployed participants. Even though 200,000 people were recruited, there was minimal impact, comparatively. The Area Redevelopment Act, a $394 million spending package passed in 1961, followed a strategy of investing in the private sector to stimulate new job creation. It specifically targeted businesses in urban and rural depressed areas and authorized $4.5 million annually over four years for vocational training programs.

The 1963 amendments to the National Defense Education Act included $731 million in appropriations to states and localities maintaining vocational training programs.

*Health*

In 1963 Kennedy, who had a mentally ill sister named Rosemary, submitted the nation's first Presidential special message to Congress on mental health issues. Congress quickly passed the Mental Retardation Facilities and Community Mental Health Centers Construction Act (P.L. 88-164), beginning a new era in Federal support for mental health services. The National Institute of Mental Health assumed responsibility for monitoring community mental health centers programs. This measure was a great success as there was a sixfold increase in people using Mental Health facilities.

A Medical Health Bill for the Aged (later known as Medicare) was proposed, but Congress failed to enact it.

The Community Health Services and Facilities Act (1961) increased the amount of funds available for nursing home construction and extended the research and demonstration grant program to other medical facilities.

The Health Services for Agricultural Migratory Workers Act (1962) established a program of federal grants for family clinics and other health services for migrant workers and their families.

The first major amendments to the food and drug safety laws since 1938 were carried out. The Drug Amendments of 1962 amended the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act (1938) by strengthening the provisions related to the regulation of therapeutic drugs. The Act required evidence that new drugs proposed for marketing were both safe and effective, and required improved manufacturing processes and procedures.

The responsibilities of the Food and Drug Administration were significantly enlarged by the Kefauver-Harris Drug Amendments (1962).

The Vaccination Assistance Act (1962) provided for the vaccination of millions of children against a number of diseases.

The Social Security Act Amendments of 1963 improved medical services for crippled children and established a new project grant program to improve prenatal care for women from low income families with very high risks of mental retardation and other birth defects. Authorizations for grants to the states under the Maternal and Child Health and Crippled Children's programs were also increased and a research grant program was added.

The Mental Retardation Facilities Construction Act of 1963 authorized federal support for the construction of university-affiliated training facilities, mental retardation research centers, and community service facilities for adults and children with mental retardation.

*Equal rights for women*

The Presidents Commission on the Status of Women was an advisory commission established on December 14, 1961, by Kennedy to investigate questions regarding women's equality in education, in the workplace, and under the law. The commission, chaired by Eleanor Roosevelt until her death in 1962, was composed of 26 members including legislators and philanthropists who were active in women's rights issues. The main purpose of the committee was to document and examine employment policies in place for women. The commission's final report, American Woman (also known as the Peterson Report after the Commission's second chair, Esther Peterson), was issued in October 1963 and documented widespread discrimination against women in the workplace. Among the practices addressed by the group were labor laws pertaining to hours and wages, the quality of legal representation for women, the lack of education and counseling for working women, and federal insurance and tax laws that affected women's incomes. Recommendations included affordable child care for all income levels, hiring practices that promoted equal opportunity for women, and paid maternity leave.

In early 1960s, full-time working women were paid on average 59 percent of the earnings of their male counterparts. In order to eliminate some forms of sex-based pay discrimination, Kennedy signed the Equal Pay Act into law on June 10, 1963. During the law's first ten years, 171,000 employees received back pay totaling about 84 million dollars.

*Environment*

The Clean Air Act (1963) expanded the powers of the federal government in preventing and controlling air pollution.

The first major additions to the National Park System since 1946 were made, which included the preservation of wilderness areas and a fund for future acquisitions.

The water pollution prevention program was doubled.

More aid was provided to localities to combat water pollution.

The Rivers and Harbors Act of 1962 reiterated and expanded upon previous authorizations for outdoor recreation.

*Crime*

Under Kennedy, the first significant package of anti crime bills since 1934 were passed. Amongst the Kennedy Administration's anti crime measures included the Juvenile Delinquency and Youth Offenses Control Act, which was signed into law on September 22, 1961. This program aimed to prevent youth from committing delinquent acts. In 1963, 288 mobsters were brought to trial by a team that was headed by Kennedy's brother, Robert.

wiki


----------



## rightwinger

tinydancer said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> More comedy rightwinger...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only the right is in violent opposition to those quotes from JFK. They were then.....still are today
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fuck you darlin. Both brothers would have been tea party patriots.
> 
> You best check back on who really hated JFK and backed LBJ to transform America into a welfare country.
Click to expand...


Both would be repulsed by the selfish, childlike antics and petty politics of the TeaTards

As are most REAL Americans


----------



## gipper

JFK fired Allen Dulles for his deception in the Bay of Pigs fiasco.  Dulles made his hatred of JFK clear to everyone involved...and he was not one to be trifled with.

Then after JFK was murdered in Dallas, guess what?  LBJ essentially put Dulles in charge of the Warren Commission.  How strangely ironic....


----------



## Bfgrn

John F. Kennedy- Acceptance of the New York Liberal Party Nomination
September 14, 1960






What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?" If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of "Liberal." But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."

But first, I would like to say what I understand the word "Liberal" to mean and explain in the process why I consider myself to be a "Liberal"

This is my political credo:

I believe in human dignity as the source of national purpose, in human liberty as the source of national action, in the human heart as the source of national compassion, and in the human mind as the source of our invention and our ideas. It is, I believe, the faith in our fellow citizens as individuals and as people that lies at the heart of the liberal faith. For liberalism is not so much a party creed or set of fixed platform promises as it is an attitude of mind and heart, a faith in man's ability through the experiences of his reason and judgment to increase for himself and his fellow men the amount of justice and freedom and brotherhood which all human life deserves.

I believe also in the United States of America, in the promise that it contains and has contained throughout our history of producing a society so abundant and creative and so free and responsible that it cannot only fulfill the aspirations of its citizens, but serve equally well as a beacon for all mankind. I do not believe in a superstate. I see no magic in tax dollars which are sent to Washington and then returned. I abhor the waste and incompetence of large-scale federal bureaucracies in this administration as well as in others. I do not favor state compulsion when voluntary individual effort can do the job and do it well. But I believe in a government which acts, which exercises its full powers and full responsibilities. Government is an art and a precious obligation; and when it has a job to do, I believe it should do it. And this requires not only great ends but that we propose concrete means of achieving them.

Our responsibility is not discharged by announcement of virtuous ends. Our responsibility is to achieve these objectives with social invention, with political skill, and executive vigor. I believe for these reasons that liberalism is our best and only hope in the world today. For the liberal society is a free society, and it is at the same time and for that reason a strong society. Its strength is drawn from the will of free people committed to great ends and peacefully striving to meet them. Only liberalism, in short, can repair our national power, restore our national purpose, and liberate our national energies. And the only basic issue in the 1960 campaign is whether our government will fall in a conservative rut and die there, or whether we will move ahead in the liberal spirit of daring, of breaking new ground, of doing in our generation what Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman and Adlai Stevenson did in their time of influence and responsibility.


----------



## tinydancer

rightwinger said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only the right is in violent opposition to those quotes from JFK. They were then.....still are today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck you darlin. Both brothers would have been tea party patriots.
> 
> You best check back on who really hated JFK and backed LBJ to transform America into a welfare country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both would be repulsed by the selfish, childlike antics and petty politics of the TeaTards
> 
> As are most REAL Americans
Click to expand...


You are east coast urban.

You do not have a clue what "real Americans" as you classify them WANT AND DESIRE. 

Oh and you just gave yourself away.


----------



## Bfgrn

tinydancer said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck you darlin. Both brothers would have been tea party patriots.
> 
> You best check back on who really hated JFK and backed LBJ to transform America into a welfare country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both would be repulsed by the selfish, childlike antics and petty politics of the TeaTards
> 
> As are most REAL Americans
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are east coast urban.
> 
> You do not have a clue what "real Americans" as you classify them WANT AND DESIRE.
> 
> Oh and you just gave yourself away.
Click to expand...


SO...who are the 'real' Americans?

I think YOU just gave yourself away...


----------



## rightwinger

tinydancer said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck you darlin. Both brothers would have been tea party patriots.
> 
> You best check back on who really hated JFK and backed LBJ to transform America into a welfare country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both would be repulsed by the selfish, childlike antics and petty politics of the TeaTards
> 
> As are most REAL Americans
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are east coast urban.
> 
> You do not have a clue what "real Americans" as you classify them WANT AND DESIRE.
> 
> Oh and you just gave yourself away.
Click to expand...


You sound just like Sarah Palin defining what Real Americans are......it ain't city folk


----------



## Jroc

JakeStarkey said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, he wouldn't.  He would have supported the ACA in a heart beat.  He would have called the TeaPoCrap Party nothing but the John Birch Society recycled.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You read the quotes, is there a Democrat alive that would follow those quotes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> JFK would spit on the TeaPoCrap Party and you know it.
Click to expand...


JFK was a "NEOCON"


----------



## rightwinger

Jroc said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You read the quotes, is there a Democrat alive that would follow those quotes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JFK would spit on the TeaPoCrap Party and you know it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> JFK was a "NEOCON"
Click to expand...


Liberal


----------



## Bfgrn

Jroc said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You read the quotes, is there a Democrat alive that would follow those quotes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JFK would spit on the TeaPoCrap Party and you know it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> JFK was a "NEOCON"
Click to expand...


JFK was as far from a 'neocon' as you can get. There is ZERO basis for your claim.

And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only six percent of the world's population - that we cannot impose our will upon the other ninety-four percent of mankind - that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity - and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem. 
President John F. Kennedy

"War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."
President John F. Kennedy


----------



## whitehall

The Kennedy brothers illegally tapped MLK's phone. Civil Rights abuses went on during the Kennedy administration. Trying to turn JFK and his strange brother into civil rights advocates is like putting lipstick on a pig.


----------



## Bfgrn

whitehall said:


> The Kennedy brothers illegally tapped MLK's phone. Civil Rights abuses went on during the Kennedy administration. Trying to turn JFK and his strange brother into civil rights advocates is like putting lipstick on a pig.



Now I know your problem...you are naive.

J. Edgar Hoover


----------



## LA RAM FAN

LeftofLeft said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I recall that he brought the country together, it just felt good to have him as President.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When he was alive, we were not as together as many claim. JFK was treated by the right in much the same way that Obama is. Elitist, Commie, Liberal, un American.......CATHOLIC
> 
> After he was shot he became a martyr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From the looks of this image, Bush was treated the same as JFK, too. People still call him a war criminal and want him tried by a jury of corrupt nations.
Click to expand...


for good reason they should.Huge vast difference between Bush and JFK.Bush IS a war criminal along with Obama.Bush went and lied to the american people about WMD'S being in Iraq when he knew perfectly well there werent any.And Obama has covered up his crimes so he is just as guilty.


----------



## Bfgrn

whitehall said:


> The Kennedy brothers illegally tapped MLK's phone. Civil Rights abuses went on during the Kennedy administration. Trying to turn JFK and his strange brother into civil rights advocates is like putting lipstick on a pig.



FACTS...

Civil Rights Act of 1964






Origins

The bill was called for by President John F. Kennedy in his civil rights speech of June 11, 1963, in which he asked for legislation "giving all Americans the right to be served in facilities which are open to the public&#8212;hotels, restaurants, theaters, retail stores, and similar establishments," as well as "greater protection for the right to vote." Kennedy delivered this speech following a series of protests from the African-American community, the most concurrent being the Birmingham campaign which concluded in May 1963.

Emulating the Civil Rights Act of 1875, Kennedy's civil rights bill included provisions to ban discrimination in public accommodations, and to enable the U.S. Attorney General to join in lawsuits against state governments which operated segregated school systems, among other provisions. However, it did not include a number of provisions deemed essential by civil rights leaders including protection against police brutality, ending discrimination in private employment, or granting the Justice Department power to initiate desegregation or job discrimination lawsuits.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

skye said:


> The only war criminal and anti-American  here is Hussein Obama.... and I can not imagine any two men more different... It's sad  and  depressing just to talk about them both in the same breath.



stands up and gives standing ovation.Best damn post on this thread bar none. the difference in Kennedy and Obomination is 1000 times different. 



Kennedy unlike Obama and his predecesser Bush before him,was trying to return us to the consitution where the people had control over the government instead of all these corporations that do now.Major HUGE difference between Jfk and this fraud president we have now.

But again,very little difference one bit at all between Obomination and his predecesser Bushwacker.two pees in a pod. Thats why you see so many bumper stickers on cars that say -HOW'S THAT HOPE AND CHANGE COMING ALONG FOR YOU? since all he has done is contiuned and esculated Bushwackers policys.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Lumpy 1 said:


> Mad_Cabbie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where have They All Gone..?
> 
> My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> The best road to progress is freedom's road.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> 
> John F. Kennedy Quotes - BrainyQuote
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love the stuff that JFK said, but just how much did he actually contribute to the nation?
> 
> It's a sore spot that can't be addressed ... we can't question his legacy because he was shot.
> 
> Talking about putting a man on the moon was great TV, but HE did it? We would not have done this without him?
> 
> Not meaning this as a troll, just a reality check.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I recall that he brought the country together, it just felt good to have him as President.
Click to expand...


thats why so many people around not just the country,but the globe as well were saddend by his loss.for the first time in ages,americans had a bright hope for the future as he was changing things for the better day by day.His speech about the new frontier gave people hope for positve change ahead for the future.He had just gotten us out of a nuclear war with russia so people around the world had hope for a peaceful world to coexist in.

His welcome that he had in berlin by the west berlin people was unlike anything ever seen before.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

whitehall said:


> Some presidents have the ability to make off the cuff comments that become instant hits. The "great communicator" Ronnie Reagan was such a politician. JFK was a scripted president. The media loved him so much that his goof about a slang word in German "berliner" that translated to jelly donut could have ruined his speech in Germany but the media ignored the gaffe and turned the speech into an instant hit. The world was relieved that the United States felt empathy for East Germans who were isolated by the Berlin Wall but like so much else about the JFK administration the speech was meaningless. It is generally ignored by the Kennedy culture but it is acknowledged by scholars that the Pulitzer Prize for his book "Profiles in Courage" was fraudulent because Sorenson admitted that he wrote it.



as always,you display your ignorance.Ronnie was so senile by the time he became president,he had to constantly read from the script.talk about a scripted president.

His memory was so bad there were times Nancy and his aides had to utter to him offstage the words to say many times. JFK had such an amazing memory,he seldom had to look at a script.lol.



Whitehall, is their something the matter with your noodle? Kennedy was wanting to shut the CIA down. A little research before a post goes a long way. 


whitehall troll constantly displays his ignorance around here on american history.

Do you mean THIS Ronnie Reagan?

"Washington couldn't tell a lie, Nixon couldn't tell the truth, and Reagan couldn't tell the difference."
Mort Sahl

Thank You Mr. President - 49 second video



Reagan and the press...

When President Reagan first took over the oval office, we would throw questions at President Reagan, and he would answer them.

Well, his three top aides were apoplectic. They didnt know what was coming out of his mouth. They taught the president to say this is not a press conference, and they had him quite trained on that.

And one day we asked him what was happening, and he said to us: I cant answer that. We said why? 

Because they wont let me, he pointed to Baker, Meese and Deaver standing behind, very grim. 

They wont let meI said, but youre the President 
__________________



Whitehall sure has reading comprehension problems as he has demonstrated to everybody throughout this entire thread.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Stashman said:


> I think the killing of JFK brought about the sad truth to the hearts of millions that there are powerful entity's watching and dictating from the shadows, and the American dream was no longer possible because of it. The truth was not as hard to see in those days like it is today.
> 
> At a time when the threat of communism/socialism were common topics over dinner, JFK brought us Camelot and hope in Americas bright future. Nothing seemed impossible then.
> 
> We as a nation understood fully what he was saying during his speech on secret societies. We understood what he meant about a free and uncontrolled press. We knew the importance of his new U.S. Dollars. The days before propaganda and double speak. We saw him as the last true American freedom fighter, and that made us all feel safe in his hands.
> 
> When he was killed we not only lost a REAL president, but we lost a dream that still eludes us today. THEY won. We knew as a nation that we were not really in control. Since than there has been puppet President after puppet President.



this now makes the BEST DAMN POST ON THIS THREAD and gets a standing ovation as well.


----------



## gipper

9/11 inside job said:


> Stashman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the killing of JFK brought about the sad truth to the hearts of millions that there are powerful entity's watching and dictating from the shadows, and the American dream was no longer possible because of it. The truth was not as hard to see in those days like it is today.
> 
> At a time when the threat of communism/socialism were common topics over dinner, JFK brought us Camelot and hope in Americas bright future. Nothing seemed impossible then.
> 
> We as a nation understood fully what he was saying during his speech on secret societies. We understood what he meant about a free and uncontrolled press. We knew the importance of his new U.S. Dollars. The days before propaganda and double speak. We saw him as the last true American freedom fighter, and that made us all feel safe in his hands.
> 
> When he was killed we not only lost a REAL president, but we lost a dream that still eludes us today. THEY won. We knew as a nation that we were not really in control. Since than there has been puppet President after puppet President.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this now makes the BEST DAMN POST ON THIS THREAD and gets a standing ovation as well.
Click to expand...


I could not agree more.

What is most disheartening are the millions of Americans who fail to comprehend the meaning of the coup d'etat that occurred in Dallas that day...and how America is now controlled by a hidden deceitful and corrupt elite.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

editec said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know absolutely NOTHING.
> 
> CIA lies are nothing new...
> 
> The Bay of Pigs fiasco...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We now knowfrom the CIA's internal history of the Bay of Pigs, which was declassified in 2005that agency officials realized their motley crew of invaders had no chance of victory unless they were reinforced by the U.S. military. But Allen Dulles and Richard Bissell, the top CIA officials, never disclosed this to J.F.K. They clearly thought the young President would cave in the heat of battle, that he would be forced to send in the Marines and Air Force to rescue the beleaguered exiles brigade after it was pinned down on the beaches by Castro's forces. But Kennedywho was concerned about aggravating the U.S. image in Latin America as a Yanqui bully and also feared a Soviet counter move against West Berlinhad warned agency officials that he would not fully intervene. As the invasion quickly bogged down at the swampy landing site, J.F.K. stunned Dulles and Bissell by standing his ground and refusing to escalate the assault.
> 
> While he famously took responsibility for the Bay of Pigs debacle in public, privately he lashed out at the Joint Chiefs and especially at the CIA, threatening to "shatter [the agency] into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds." J.F.K. never followed through on this threat, but he did eventually fire Dulles, despite his stature as a legendary spymaster, as well as Bissell.
> 
> Weeks after the Cuba fiasco, J.F.K. was still steaming, recalled his friend Assistant Navy Secretary Paul (Red) Fay years later in his memoir, The Pleasure of His Company. "Nobody is going to force me to do anything I don't think is in the best interest of the country," the President told his friend, over a game of checkers at the Kennedy-family compound in Hyannis Port, Mass. "We're not going to plunge into an irresponsible action just because a fanatical fringe in this country puts so-called national pride above national reason. Do you think I'm going to carry on my conscience the responsibility for the wanton maiming and killing of children like our children we saw [playing] here this evening? Do you think I'm going to cause a nuclear exchangefor what? Because I was forced into doing something that I didn't think was proper and right? Well, if you or anybody else thinks I am, he's crazy."
> 
> This would become the major theme of the Kennedy presidencyJ.F.K.'s strenuous efforts to keep the country at peace in the face of equally ardent pressures from Washington's warrior caste to go to war.
> 
> Warrior For Peace - The Lessons of J.F.K. - TIME
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like it or not Cuba was a sovereign country then as it is now. It isn't surprising that the CIA offered the JFK administration "plausible deniability" for the disaster at the Bay of Pigs but the point is that JFK and his strange brother crafted the plan and authorized the CIA to raise, equip, feed and train an illegal invasion force. What were they thinking? Whatever they were thinking it was an impeachable offense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have been misinformed, amigo.
> 
> The bay of  pigs event was iun the planning and development stage before JFK took office.
> 
> here's a timeline of events leading up to the event
> 
> 
> Bay of Pigs Chronology
Click to expand...


Further proof whitehall troll here is cluless about american history. as any serious reseacher knows,Kennedy inherited the bay of pigs invasion form Eisenhower just like he inherited vietnam from him. 

The bay of pigs invasion was planned under Ikes administration just like you said,the plan they presented to Eisenhower for the invasion was VASTLY different from the one they presented to kennedy.

The CIA they thought their boy Nixon was going to get elected.He ran covert operations for the CIA as VP under Eisenhower that were so secret,Eisenhower didnt even know about them.The plan they presented to Eisenhower was designed to succeed because they figured Nixon was going to get elected.Thats why the plan they presented to Eisenhower was designed for them to succeed.

The plan they presented to kennedy was designed to fail from the very beginning.they lied to him from the very beginning telling him they would not need air support when they knew beyond a doubt he WOULD need air support for it succeed.Man whitehall has really been brainwashed his whole life.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

gipper said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stashman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the killing of JFK brought about the sad truth to the hearts of millions that there are powerful entity's watching and dictating from the shadows, and the American dream was no longer possible because of it. The truth was not as hard to see in those days like it is today.
> 
> At a time when the threat of communism/socialism were common topics over dinner, JFK brought us Camelot and hope in Americas bright future. Nothing seemed impossible then.
> 
> We as a nation understood fully what he was saying during his speech on secret societies. We understood what he meant about a free and uncontrolled press. We knew the importance of his new U.S. Dollars. The days before propaganda and double speak. We saw him as the last true American freedom fighter, and that made us all feel safe in his hands.
> 
> When he was killed we not only lost a REAL president, but we lost a dream that still eludes us today. THEY won. We knew as a nation that we were not really in control. Since than there has been puppet President after puppet President.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this now makes the BEST DAMN POST ON THIS THREAD and gets a standing ovation as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I could not agree more.
> 
> What is most disheartening are the millions of Americans who fail to comprehend the meaning of the coup d'etat that occurred in Dallas that day...and how America is now controlled by a hidden deceitful and corrupt elite.
Click to expand...


would you agree with me as well that the second post I made on this page post # 65 talking about post # 14 by Skye on the first page  is the second best post on this thread? 

This whitehall sheople poster has seriously been brainwashed beyond belief wouldnt you say?


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Bfgrn said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only the right is in violent opposition to those quotes from JFK. They were then.....still are today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck you darlin. Both brothers would have been tea party patriots.
> 
> You best check back on who really hated JFK and backed LBJ to transform America into a welfare country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wonder where you get these idiotic ideas? I would be happy to destroy your bullshit claims.
> 
> Tell you what TD, read through JFK's agenda and bring back all the 'tea party patriots' stuff...
> 
> A big part of LBJ's Great Society was started by President Kennedy and the New Frontier.
> 
> Who was John F. Kennedy? The President who proposed and or planned the following:
> 
> Medicare
> Civil Rights
> The War on Poverty
> *
> Economy*
> 
> The addition of a temporary thirteen-week supplement to jobless benefits,
> 
> The extension of aid to the children of unemployed workers,
> 
> The redevelopment of distressed areas,
> 
> An increase in Social Security payments and the encouragement of earlier retirement,
> 
> An increase in the minimum wage and an extension in coverage,
> 
> The provision of emergency relief to feed grain farmers, and
> 
> The financing of a comprehensive homebuilding and slum clearance program.
> 
> *Labor*
> 
> Amendments to the Fair Labor Standards Act in 1961 greatly expanded the FLSA's scope in the retail trade sector and increased the minimum wage
> 
> An Executive Order was issued (1962) which provided federal employees with collective bargaining rights.
> 
> The Federal Salary Reform Act (1962) established the principle of maintaining federal white-collar wages at a level with those paid to employees performing similar jobs in private enterprises."
> 
> A Postal Service and Federal Employees Salary Act was passed (1962) to reform Federal white-collar statutory salary systems, adjust postal rates, and establish a standard for adjusting annuities under the Civil Service Retirement Act.
> 
> The Contract Work Hours and Safety Standards Act (1962) established standards for hours, overtime compensation, and safety for employees working on federal and federally funded contracts and subcontracts.
> 
> A pilot program was launched to train and place youths in jobs.
> 
> Paid overtime was granted to workers on government financed construction jobs for work in excess of 40 hours.
> 
> *Education*
> 
> Scholarships and student loans were broadened under existing laws by Kennedy, and new means of specialized aid to education were invented or expanded by the president, including an increase in funds for libraries and school lunches, the provision of funds to teach the deaf, the handicapped, the retarded, and the exceptional child, the authorization of literacy training under Manpower Development, the allocation of President funds to stop dropouts, a quadrupling of vocational education, and working together with schools on delinquency. Altogether, these measures attacked serious educational problems and freed up local funds for use on general construction and salaries.
> 
> Various measures were introduced which aided educational television, college dormitories, medical education, and community libraries.
> 
> The Educational Television Facilities Act (1962) provided federal grants for new station construction, enabling in-class-room instructional television to operate in thousands of elementary schools, offering primarily religious instruction, music, and arts.
> 
> The Health Professions Educational Assistance Act (1963) provided $175 million over a three-year period for matching grants for the construction of facilities for teaching physicians, dentists, nurses, podiatrists, optometrists, pharmacists, and other health professionals. The Act also created a loan program of up to $2000 per annum for students of optometry, dentistry, and medicine.
> 
> The Vocational Education Act (1963) significantly increased enrollment in vocational education.
> 
> A law was enacted (1961) to encourage and facilitate the training of teachers of the deaf.
> 
> The Fulbright-Hays Act of 1961 enlarged the scope of the Fulbright program while extending it geographically.
> 
> An estimated one-third of all major New Frontier programs made some form of education a vital element, and the Office of Education called it the most significant legislative period in its hundred-year history.
> 
> *Welfare*
> 
> Unemployment and welfare benefits were expanded.
> 
> In 1961, Social Security benefits were increased by 20% and provision for early retirement was introduced, enabling workers to retire at the age of sixty-two while receiving partial benefits.
> 
> The Social Security Amendments of 1961 permitted male workers to elect early retirement age 62, increased minimum benefits, liberalized the benefit payments to aged widow, widower, or surviving dependent parent, and also liberalized eligibility requirements and the retirement test.
> 
> The 1962 amendments to the Social Security Act authorized the federal government to reimburse states for the provision of social services.
> 
> The School Lunch Act was amended for authority to begin providing free meals in poverty-stricken areas.
> 
> A pilot food stamp program was launched (1961), covering six areas in the United States. In 1962, the program was extended to eighteen areas, feeding 240,000 people.
> 
> The Self-Employed Individuals Tax Retirement Act of 1962 provided self-employed people with a tax postponement for income set aside in qualified pension plans.
> 
> Various school lunch and school milk programs were extended, enabling 700,000 more children to enjoy a hot school lunch and eighty-five thousand more schools, child care centers, and camps to receive fresh milk.
> 
> ADC was extended to whole families (1961).
> 
> Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) replaced the Aid to Dependent Children (ADC) program, as coverage was extended to adults caring for dependent children.
> 
> A major revision of the public welfare laws was carried out, with a $300 million modernization which emphasized rehabilitation instead of relief.
> 
> A temporary antirecession supplement to unemployment compensation was introduced.
> 
> Food distribution to needy Americans was increased. In January 1961, the first executive order issued by Kennedy mandated that the Department of Agriculture increase the quantity and variety of foods donated for needy households. This executive order represented a shift in the Commodity Distribution Programs primary purpose, from surplus disposal to that of providing nutritious foods to low-income households.
> 
> Social Security benefits were extended to an additional five million Americans.
> 
> The Self-Employed Individuals Tax Retirement Act (1962) provided self-employed people with a tax postponement for income set aside in qualified pension plans.
> 
> The Public Welfare Amendments of 1962 provided for greater Federal sharing in the cost of rehabilitative services to applicants, recipients, and persons likely to become applicants for public assistance. It increased the Federal share in the cost of public assistance payments, and permitted the States to combine the various categories into one category. The amendments also made permanent the 1961 amendment which extended aid to dependent children to cover children removed from unsuitable homes.
> 
> Federal funds were made available for the payment of foster care costs for AFDC-eligible children who had come into state custody.
> 
> An act was approved (1963) which extended for one year the period during which responsibility for the placement and foster care of dependent children, under the program of aid to families with dependent children under Title IV of the Social Security Act.
> 
> Federal civil service retirement benefits were index-linked to changes in the Consumer Price Index (1962).
> 
> *Civil rights*
> 
> Various measures were carried out by the Kennedy Justice Department to enforce court orders and existing legislation. The Kennedy Administration promoted a Voter Education Project which led to 688,800 between the 1st of April 1962 and the 1st of November 1964, while the Civil Rights Division brought over forty-two suits in four states in order to secure voting rights for blacks. In addition, Kennedy supported the anti-poll tax amendment, which cleared Congress in September 1962 (although it was not ratified until 1964 as the Twenty-fourth Amendment). As noted by one student of black voting in the South, in relation to the attempts by the Kennedy Administration to promote civil rights, Whereas the Eisenhower lawyers had moved deliberately, the Kennedy-Johnson attorneys pushed the judiciary far more earnestly.
> 
> Executive Order 10925 (issued in 1961) combined the federal employment and government contractor agencies into a unified Committee on Equal Employment opportunity (CEEO). This new committee helped to put an end to segregation and discriminatory employment practices (such as only employing African-Americans for low-skilled jobs) in a number of workplaces across the United States.
> 
> Discrimination in public housing was prohibited.
> 
> The Interstate Commerce Commission made Jim Crow illegal in interstate transportation, having been put under pressure to do so by both the Freedom Riders and the Department of Justice.
> 
> Employment of African-Americans in federal jobs such as in the Post office, the Navy, and the Veterans Administration as a result of the Kennedy Administrations affirmative action policies).
> 
> The Kennedy Administration forbade government contractors from discriminating against any applicant or employee for employment on the grounds of national origin, color, creed, or race.
> 
> The Plan for Progress was launched by the CEEO to persuade large employers to adopt equal opportunity practices. 268 firms with 8 million employees had signed on to this by 1964, while a nationwide study covering the period from May 1961 to June 1963 of 103 corporations showed a Negro gain from 28,940 to 42,738 salaried and from 171,021 to 198,161 hourly paid jobs.
> 
> *Housing*
> 
> The most comprehensive housing and urban renewal program in American history up until that point was carried out, including the first major provisions for middle-income housing, protection of urban open spaces, public mass transit, and private low-income housing.
> 
> Omnibus Housing Bill 1961. In March 1961 Kennedy sent Congress a special message, proposing an ambitious and complex housing program to spur the economy, revitalize cities, and provide affordable housing for middle- and low-income families. The bill proposed spending $3.19 billion and placed major emphasis on improving the existing housing supply, instead of on new housing starts, and creating a cabinet-level Department of Housing and Urban Affairs to oversee the programs. The bill also promised to make the Federal Housing Administration a full partner in urban renewal program by authorizing mortgage loans to finance rehabilitation of homes and urban renewal Committee on housing combined programs for housing, mass transportation, and open space land bills into a single bill.
> 
> Urban renewal grants were increased from $2 to $4 million, while an additional 100,000 units of public housing were constructed.
> 
> Opportunities were provided for coordinated planning of community development: technical assistance to state and local governments.
> 
> Under the Kennedy Administration, there was a change of focus from a wrecker ball approach to small rehabilitation projects in order to preserve existing urban textures.
> 
> Funds for housing for the elderly were increased.
> 
> Title V of the Housing Act was amended (1961) to make nonfarm rural residents eligible for direct housing loans from the Farmers Home Administration. These changes extended the housing program to towns with a population of up to 2,500.
> 
> The Senior Citizens Housing Act (1962) established loans for low-rent apartment projects which were designed to meet the needs of people age 62 and over.
> 
> *Unemployment*
> 
> To help the unemployed, Kennedy broadened the distribution of surplus food, created a pilot Food Stamp program for poor Americans, directed that preference be given to distressed areas in defense contracts, and expanded the services of U.S. Employment Offices.
> 
> Social security benefits were extended to each child whose father was unemployed.
> 
> The first accelerated public works program for areas of unemployment since the New Deal was launched.
> 
> The first full-scale modernization and expansion of the vocational education laws since 1946 were carried out.
> 
> Federal grants were provided to the states enabling them to extend the period covered by unemployment benefit.
> 
> The Manpower Development and Training Act of 1962 authorized a three-year program aimed at retraining workers displaced by new technology. The bill did not exclude employed workers from benefiting and it authorized a training allowance for unemployed participants. Even though 200,000 people were recruited, there was minimal impact, comparatively. The Area Redevelopment Act, a $394 million spending package passed in 1961, followed a strategy of investing in the private sector to stimulate new job creation. It specifically targeted businesses in urban and rural depressed areas and authorized $4.5 million annually over four years for vocational training programs.
> 
> The 1963 amendments to the National Defense Education Act included $731 million in appropriations to states and localities maintaining vocational training programs.
> 
> *Health*
> 
> In 1963 Kennedy, who had a mentally ill sister named Rosemary, submitted the nation's first Presidential special message to Congress on mental health issues. Congress quickly passed the Mental Retardation Facilities and Community Mental Health Centers Construction Act (P.L. 88-164), beginning a new era in Federal support for mental health services. The National Institute of Mental Health assumed responsibility for monitoring community mental health centers programs. This measure was a great success as there was a sixfold increase in people using Mental Health facilities.
> 
> A Medical Health Bill for the Aged (later known as Medicare) was proposed, but Congress failed to enact it.
> 
> The Community Health Services and Facilities Act (1961) increased the amount of funds available for nursing home construction and extended the research and demonstration grant program to other medical facilities.
> 
> The Health Services for Agricultural Migratory Workers Act (1962) established a program of federal grants for family clinics and other health services for migrant workers and their families.
> 
> The first major amendments to the food and drug safety laws since 1938 were carried out. The Drug Amendments of 1962 amended the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act (1938) by strengthening the provisions related to the regulation of therapeutic drugs. The Act required evidence that new drugs proposed for marketing were both safe and effective, and required improved manufacturing processes and procedures.
> 
> The responsibilities of the Food and Drug Administration were significantly enlarged by the Kefauver-Harris Drug Amendments (1962).
> 
> The Vaccination Assistance Act (1962) provided for the vaccination of millions of children against a number of diseases.
> 
> The Social Security Act Amendments of 1963 improved medical services for crippled children and established a new project grant program to improve prenatal care for women from low income families with very high risks of mental retardation and other birth defects. Authorizations for grants to the states under the Maternal and Child Health and Crippled Children's programs were also increased and a research grant program was added.
> 
> The Mental Retardation Facilities Construction Act of 1963 authorized federal support for the construction of university-affiliated training facilities, mental retardation research centers, and community service facilities for adults and children with mental retardation.
> 
> *Equal rights for women*
> 
> The Presidents Commission on the Status of Women was an advisory commission established on December 14, 1961, by Kennedy to investigate questions regarding women's equality in education, in the workplace, and under the law. The commission, chaired by Eleanor Roosevelt until her death in 1962, was composed of 26 members including legislators and philanthropists who were active in women's rights issues. The main purpose of the committee was to document and examine employment policies in place for women. The commission's final report, American Woman (also known as the Peterson Report after the Commission's second chair, Esther Peterson), was issued in October 1963 and documented widespread discrimination against women in the workplace. Among the practices addressed by the group were labor laws pertaining to hours and wages, the quality of legal representation for women, the lack of education and counseling for working women, and federal insurance and tax laws that affected women's incomes. Recommendations included affordable child care for all income levels, hiring practices that promoted equal opportunity for women, and paid maternity leave.
> 
> In early 1960s, full-time working women were paid on average 59 percent of the earnings of their male counterparts. In order to eliminate some forms of sex-based pay discrimination, Kennedy signed the Equal Pay Act into law on June 10, 1963. During the law's first ten years, 171,000 employees received back pay totaling about 84 million dollars.
> 
> *Environment*
> 
> The Clean Air Act (1963) expanded the powers of the federal government in preventing and controlling air pollution.
> 
> The first major additions to the National Park System since 1946 were made, which included the preservation of wilderness areas and a fund for future acquisitions.
> 
> The water pollution prevention program was doubled.
> 
> More aid was provided to localities to combat water pollution.
> 
> The Rivers and Harbors Act of 1962 reiterated and expanded upon previous authorizations for outdoor recreation.
> 
> *Crime*
> 
> Under Kennedy, the first significant package of anti crime bills since 1934 were passed. Amongst the Kennedy Administration's anti crime measures included the Juvenile Delinquency and Youth Offenses Control Act, which was signed into law on September 22, 1961. This program aimed to prevent youth from committing delinquent acts. In 1963, 288 mobsters were brought to trial by a team that was headed by Kennedy's brother, Robert.
> 
> wiki
Click to expand...


 Bfgrn clearly wins this debate and Td is clearly the loser of the game.the chessgame  is over and TD has been checkmated.


----------



## GWV5903

rightwinger said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad_Cabbie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love the stuff that JFK said, but just how much did he actually contribute to the nation?
> 
> It's a sore spot that can't be addressed ... we can't question his legacy because he was shot.
> 
> Talking about putting a man on the moon was great TV, but HE did it? We would not have done this without him?
> 
> Not meaning this as a troll, just a reality check.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I recall that he brought the country together, it just felt good to have him as President.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *When he was alive, we were not as together as many claim.* JFK was treated by the right in much the same way that Obama is. Elitist, Commie, Liberal, un American.......CATHOLIC
> 
> After he was shot he became a martyr
Click to expand...


You're correct we where not together and the GOP was very moderate at the time...

He was not treated anywhere close to the way Obama is treated...

The Kennedy's where and still are elitist...

The same thread is still alive and well in the DNC, manipulate the masses that all of their problems are due to the wealthy...


----------



## GWV5903

Bfgrn said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Kennedy brothers illegally tapped MLK's phone. Civil Rights abuses went on during the Kennedy administration. Trying to turn JFK and his strange brother into civil rights advocates is like putting lipstick on a pig.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FACTS...
> 
> Civil Rights Act of 1964
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Origins
> 
> The bill was called for by President John F. Kennedy in his civil rights speech of June 11, 1963, in which he asked for legislation "giving all Americans the right to be served in facilities which are open to the publichotels, restaurants, theaters, retail stores, and similar establishments," as well as "greater protection for the right to vote." Kennedy delivered this speech following a series of protests from the African-American community, the most concurrent being the Birmingham campaign which concluded in May 1963.
> 
> Emulating the Civil Rights Act of 1875, Kennedy's civil rights bill included provisions to ban discrimination in public accommodations, and to enable the U.S. Attorney General to join in lawsuits against state governments which operated segregated school systems, among other provisions. However, it did not include a number of provisions deemed essential by civil rights leaders including protection against police brutality, ending discrimination in private employment, or granting the Justice Department power to initiate desegregation or job discrimination lawsuits.
Click to expand...


Wiki really?


----------



## LA RAM FAN

rightwinger said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad_Cabbie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love the stuff that JFK said, but just how much did he actually contribute to the nation?
> 
> It's a sore spot that can't be addressed ... we can't question his legacy because he was shot.
> 
> Talking about putting a man on the moon was great TV, but HE did it? We would not have done this without him?
> 
> Not meaning this as a troll, just a reality check.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I recall that he brought the country together, it just felt good to have him as President.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When he was alive, we were not as together as many claim. JFK was treated by the right in much the same way that Obama is. Elitist, Commie, Liberal, un American.......CATHOLIC
> 
> After he was shot he became a martyr
Click to expand...


The reason that newspaper add was put out is because of the fact JFK was a great president doing great things for the people serving them instead of wall street like every puppet president since him has done.

You never see adds like this on front pages of newspapers with these kind of headlines for presidents coming into town like Bush or Obama.That was unprecedented at the time and has never occured since then  either.that add by the way was printed by oilman in texas,backers of Lyndon Johnson.


----------



## Bfgrn

GWV5903 said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Kennedy brothers illegally tapped MLK's phone. Civil Rights abuses went on during the Kennedy administration. Trying to turn JFK and his strange brother into civil rights advocates is like putting lipstick on a pig.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FACTS...
> 
> Civil Rights Act of 1964
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Origins
> 
> The bill was called for by President John F. Kennedy in his civil rights speech of June 11, 1963, in which he asked for legislation "giving all Americans the right to be served in facilities which are open to the publichotels, restaurants, theaters, retail stores, and similar establishments," as well as "greater protection for the right to vote." Kennedy delivered this speech following a series of protests from the African-American community, the most concurrent being the Birmingham campaign which concluded in May 1963.
> 
> Emulating the Civil Rights Act of 1875, Kennedy's civil rights bill included provisions to ban discrimination in public accommodations, and to enable the U.S. Attorney General to join in lawsuits against state governments which operated segregated school systems, among other provisions. However, it did not include a number of provisions deemed essential by civil rights leaders including protection against police brutality, ending discrimination in private employment, or granting the Justice Department power to initiate desegregation or job discrimination lawsuits.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wiki really?
Click to expand...


Are you disputing the FACTS GWV? You are welcome to try to disprove it.

Our Documents - Civil Rights Act (1964)

In a nationally televised address on June 6, 1963, President John F. Kennedy urged the nation to take action toward guaranteeing equal treatment of every American regardless of race. Soon after, Kennedy proposed that Congress consider civil rights legislation that would address voting rights, public accommodations, school desegregation, nondiscrimination in federally assisted programs, and more.

Despite Kennedys assassination in November of 1963, his proposal culminated in the Civil Rights Act of 1964, signed into law by President Lyndon Johnson just a few hours after House approval on July 2, 1964.


----------



## BDBoop

rightwinger said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ummmm....all of them would
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More comedy rightwinger...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only the right is in violent opposition to those quotes from JFK. They were then.....still are today
Click to expand...


Some things never change.


----------



## Lumpy 1

...just sayin..

June 10, 1964
Civil Rights Filibuster Ended

At 9:51 on the morning of June 10, 1964, Senator Robert C. Byrd completed an address that he had begun 14 hours and 13 minutes earlier. The subject was the pending Civil Rights Act of 1964, a measure that occupied the Senate for 60 working days, including seven Saturdays. A day earlier, Democratic Whip Hubert Humphrey, the bill's manager, concluded he had the 67 votes required at that time to end the debate.

The Civil Rights Act provided protection of voting rights; banned discrimination in public facilitiesincluding private businesses offering public servicessuch as lunch counters, hotels, and theaters; and established equal employment opportunity as the law of the land.

As Senator Byrd took his seat, House members, former senators, and others150 of themvied for limited standing space at the back of the chamber. With all gallery seats taken, hundreds waited outside in hopelessly extended lines.

Georgia Democrat Richard Russell offered the final arguments in opposition. Minority Leader Everett Dirksen, who had enlisted the Republican votes that made cloture a realistic option, spoke for the proponents with his customary eloquence. Noting that the day marked the 100th anniversary of Abraham Lincoln's nomination to a second term, the Illinois Republican proclaimed, in the words of Victor Hugo, "Stronger than all the armies is an idea whose time has come." He continued, "The time has come for equality of opportunity in sharing in government, in education, and in employment. It will not be stayed or denied. It is here!"

Never in history had the Senate been able to muster enough votes to cut off a filibuster on a civil rights bill. And only once in the 37 years since 1927 had it agreed to cloture for any measure. 

U.S. Senate: Art & History Home > Senate Stories > 1964-Present > Civil Rights Filibuster Ended


----------



## Bfgrn

Lumpy 1 said:


> ...just sayin..
> 
> June 10, 1964
> Civil Rights Filibuster Ended
> 
> At 9:51 on the morning of June 10, 1964, Senator Robert C. Byrd completed an address that he had begun 14 hours and 13 minutes earlier. The subject was the pending Civil Rights Act of 1964, a measure that occupied the Senate for 60 working days, including seven Saturdays. A day earlier, Democratic Whip Hubert Humphrey, the bill's manager, concluded he had the 67 votes required at that time to end the debate.
> 
> The Civil Rights Act provided protection of voting rights; banned discrimination in public facilitiesincluding private businesses offering public servicessuch as lunch counters, hotels, and theaters; and established equal employment opportunity as the law of the land.
> 
> As Senator Byrd took his seat, House members, former senators, and others150 of themvied for limited standing space at the back of the chamber. With all gallery seats taken, hundreds waited outside in hopelessly extended lines.
> 
> Georgia Democrat Richard Russell offered the final arguments in opposition. Minority Leader Everett Dirksen, who had enlisted the Republican votes that made cloture a realistic option, spoke for the proponents with his customary eloquence. Noting that the day marked the 100th anniversary of Abraham Lincoln's nomination to a second term, the Illinois Republican proclaimed, in the words of Victor Hugo, "Stronger than all the armies is an idea whose time has come." He continued, "The time has come for equality of opportunity in sharing in government, in education, and in employment. It will not be stayed or denied. It is here!"
> 
> Never in history had the Senate been able to muster enough votes to cut off a filibuster on a civil rights bill. And only once in the 37 years since 1927 had it agreed to cloture for any measure.
> 
> U.S. Senate: Art & History Home > Senate Stories > 1964-Present > Civil Rights Filibuster Ended



Same old BS. You right wingers always leave out THIS:

By party and region

Note: "Southern", as used in this section, refers to members of Congress from the eleven states that made up the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. "Northern" refers to members from the other 39 states, regardless of the geographic location of those states.

The original House version:

    Southern Democrats: 787   (7%93%)
    Southern Republicans: 010   (0%100%)

    Northern Democrats: 145-9   (94%6%)
    Northern Republicans: 138-24   (85%15%)

The Senate version:

    Southern Democrats: 120   (5%95%)
    Southern Republicans: 01   (0%100%)
    Northern Democrats: 45-1   (98%2%)
    Northern Republicans: 27-5   (84%16%)


----------



## Lumpy 1

Bfgrn said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...just sayin..
> 
> June 10, 1964
> Civil Rights Filibuster Ended
> 
> At 9:51 on the morning of June 10, 1964, Senator Robert C. Byrd completed an address that he had begun 14 hours and 13 minutes earlier. The subject was the pending Civil Rights Act of 1964, a measure that occupied the Senate for 60 working days, including seven Saturdays. A day earlier, Democratic Whip Hubert Humphrey, the bill's manager, concluded he had the 67 votes required at that time to end the debate.
> 
> The Civil Rights Act provided protection of voting rights; banned discrimination in public facilitiesincluding private businesses offering public servicessuch as lunch counters, hotels, and theaters; and established equal employment opportunity as the law of the land.
> 
> As Senator Byrd took his seat, House members, former senators, and others150 of themvied for limited standing space at the back of the chamber. With all gallery seats taken, hundreds waited outside in hopelessly extended lines.
> 
> Georgia Democrat Richard Russell offered the final arguments in opposition. Minority Leader Everett Dirksen, who had enlisted the Republican votes that made cloture a realistic option, spoke for the proponents with his customary eloquence. Noting that the day marked the 100th anniversary of Abraham Lincoln's nomination to a second term, the Illinois Republican proclaimed, in the words of Victor Hugo, "Stronger than all the armies is an idea whose time has come." He continued, "The time has come for equality of opportunity in sharing in government, in education, and in employment. It will not be stayed or denied. It is here!"
> 
> Never in history had the Senate been able to muster enough votes to cut off a filibuster on a civil rights bill. And only once in the 37 years since 1927 had it agreed to cloture for any measure.
> 
> U.S. Senate: Art & History Home > Senate Stories > 1964-Present > Civil Rights Filibuster Ended
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same old BS. You right wingers always leave out THIS:
> 
> By party and region
> 
> Note: "Southern", as used in this section, refers to members of Congress from the eleven states that made up the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. "Northern" refers to members from the other 39 states, regardless of the geographic location of those states.
> 
> The original House version:
> 
> Southern Democrats: 787   (7%93%)
> Southern Republicans: 010   (0%100%)
> 
> Northern Democrats: 145-9   (94%6%)
> Northern Republicans: 138-24   (85%15%)
> 
> The Senate version:
> 
> Southern Democrats: 120   (5%95%)
> Southern Republicans: 01   (0%100%)
> Northern Democrats: 45-1   (98%2%)
> Northern Republicans: 27-5   (84%16%)
Click to expand...


You consider historical facts in regards to Democrats as BS..interesting...


----------



## Bfgrn

Lumpy 1 said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...just sayin..
> 
> June 10, 1964
> Civil Rights Filibuster Ended
> 
> At 9:51 on the morning of June 10, 1964, Senator Robert C. Byrd completed an address that he had begun 14 hours and 13 minutes earlier. The subject was the pending Civil Rights Act of 1964, a measure that occupied the Senate for 60 working days, including seven Saturdays. A day earlier, Democratic Whip Hubert Humphrey, the bill's manager, concluded he had the 67 votes required at that time to end the debate.
> 
> The Civil Rights Act provided protection of voting rights; banned discrimination in public facilitiesincluding private businesses offering public servicessuch as lunch counters, hotels, and theaters; and established equal employment opportunity as the law of the land.
> 
> As Senator Byrd took his seat, House members, former senators, and others150 of themvied for limited standing space at the back of the chamber. With all gallery seats taken, hundreds waited outside in hopelessly extended lines.
> 
> Georgia Democrat Richard Russell offered the final arguments in opposition. Minority Leader Everett Dirksen, who had enlisted the Republican votes that made cloture a realistic option, spoke for the proponents with his customary eloquence. Noting that the day marked the 100th anniversary of Abraham Lincoln's nomination to a second term, the Illinois Republican proclaimed, in the words of Victor Hugo, "Stronger than all the armies is an idea whose time has come." He continued, "The time has come for equality of opportunity in sharing in government, in education, and in employment. It will not be stayed or denied. It is here!"
> 
> Never in history had the Senate been able to muster enough votes to cut off a filibuster on a civil rights bill. And only once in the 37 years since 1927 had it agreed to cloture for any measure.
> 
> U.S. Senate: Art & History Home > Senate Stories > 1964-Present > Civil Rights Filibuster Ended
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same old BS. You right wingers always leave out THIS:
> 
> By party and region
> 
> Note: "Southern", as used in this section, refers to members of Congress from the eleven states that made up the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. "Northern" refers to members from the other 39 states, regardless of the geographic location of those states.
> 
> The original House version:
> 
> Southern Democrats: 787   (7%93%)
> Southern Republicans: 010   (0%100%)
> 
> Northern Democrats: 145-9   (94%6%)
> Northern Republicans: 138-24   (85%15%)
> 
> The Senate version:
> 
> Southern Democrats: 120   (5%95%)
> Southern Republicans: 01   (0%100%)
> Northern Democrats: 45-1   (98%2%)
> Northern Republicans: 27-5   (84%16%)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You consider historical facts in regards to Democrats as BS..interesting...
Click to expand...


Support for the Civil Rights Act was divided by REGION, not party. The conservative south against the liberal north. 

There was not ONE southern conservative from either party that supported the bill. Fast forward to today, and it is still liberals who support the rights of minorities. Examples, gays, Hispanics and Muslims.

The history of mankind has been a struggle between those who want to increase freedom, opportunity and rights to all people and those who want to restrict them. The people who have always fought to increase freedom, opportunity and rights are liberals. The people who have fought to restrict them are conservatives.


----------



## rightwinger

Lumpy 1 said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...just sayin..
> 
> June 10, 1964
> Civil Rights Filibuster Ended
> 
> At 9:51 on the morning of June 10, 1964, Senator Robert C. Byrd completed an address that he had begun 14 hours and 13 minutes earlier. The subject was the pending Civil Rights Act of 1964, a measure that occupied the Senate for 60 working days, including seven Saturdays. A day earlier, Democratic Whip Hubert Humphrey, the bill's manager, concluded he had the 67 votes required at that time to end the debate.
> 
> The Civil Rights Act provided protection of voting rights; banned discrimination in public facilitiesincluding private businesses offering public servicessuch as lunch counters, hotels, and theaters; and established equal employment opportunity as the law of the land.
> 
> As Senator Byrd took his seat, House members, former senators, and others150 of themvied for limited standing space at the back of the chamber. With all gallery seats taken, hundreds waited outside in hopelessly extended lines.
> 
> Georgia Democrat Richard Russell offered the final arguments in opposition. Minority Leader Everett Dirksen, who had enlisted the Republican votes that made cloture a realistic option, spoke for the proponents with his customary eloquence. Noting that the day marked the 100th anniversary of Abraham Lincoln's nomination to a second term, the Illinois Republican proclaimed, in the words of Victor Hugo, "Stronger than all the armies is an idea whose time has come." He continued, "The time has come for equality of opportunity in sharing in government, in education, and in employment. It will not be stayed or denied. It is here!"
> 
> Never in history had the Senate been able to muster enough votes to cut off a filibuster on a civil rights bill. And only once in the 37 years since 1927 had it agreed to cloture for any measure.
> 
> U.S. Senate: Art & History Home > Senate Stories > 1964-Present > Civil Rights Filibuster Ended
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same old BS. You right wingers always leave out THIS:
> 
> By party and region
> 
> Note: "Southern", as used in this section, refers to members of Congress from the eleven states that made up the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. "Northern" refers to members from the other 39 states, regardless of the geographic location of those states.
> 
> The original House version:
> 
> Southern Democrats: 787   (7%93%)
> Southern Republicans: 010   (0%100%)
> 
> Northern Democrats: 145-9   (94%6%)
> Northern Republicans: 138-24   (85%15%)
> 
> The Senate version:
> 
> Southern Democrats: 120   (5%95%)
> Southern Republicans: 01   (0%100%)
> Northern Democrats: 45-1   (98%2%)
> Northern Republicans: 27-5   (84%16%)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You consider historical facts in regards to Democrats as BS..interesting...
Click to expand...


100% of Southern Republicans voted against the Civil Rights Act

Also, 16% of NORTHERN Republicans opposed it vs 5% of Democrats


----------



## Lumpy 1

Bfgrn said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same old BS. You right wingers always leave out THIS:
> 
> By party and region
> 
> Note: "Southern", as used in this section, refers to members of Congress from the eleven states that made up the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. "Northern" refers to members from the other 39 states, regardless of the geographic location of those states.
> 
> The original House version:
> 
> Southern Democrats: 787   (7%93%)
> Southern Republicans: 010   (0%100%)
> 
> Northern Democrats: 145-9   (94%6%)
> Northern Republicans: 138-24   (85%15%)
> 
> The Senate version:
> 
> Southern Democrats: 120   (5%95%)
> Southern Republicans: 01   (0%100%)
> Northern Democrats: 45-1   (98%2%)
> Northern Republicans: 27-5   (84%16%)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You consider historical facts in regards to Democrats as BS..interesting...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Support for the Civil Rights Act was divided by REGION, not party. The conservative south against the liberal north.
> 
> There was not ONE southern conservative from either party that supported the bill. Fast forward to today, and it is still liberals who support the rights of minorities. Examples, gays, Hispanics and Muslims.
> 
> The history of mankind has been a struggle between those who want to increase freedom, opportunity and rights to all people and those who want to restrict them. The people who have always fought to increase freedom, opportunity and rights are liberals. The people who have fought to restrict them are conservatives.
Click to expand...


This is why many consider you an unbalanced liar and not worth wasting their time with..


----------



## Bfgrn

Lumpy 1 said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You consider historical facts in regards to Democrats as BS..interesting...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Support for the Civil Rights Act was divided by REGION, not party. The conservative south against the liberal north.
> 
> There was not ONE southern conservative from either party that supported the bill. Fast forward to today, and it is still liberals who support the rights of minorities. Examples, gays, Hispanics and Muslims.
> 
> The history of mankind has been a struggle between those who want to increase freedom, opportunity and rights to all people and those who want to restrict them. The people who have always fought to increase freedom, opportunity and rights are liberals. The people who have fought to restrict them are conservatives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is why many consider you an unbalanced liar and not worth wasting their time with..
Click to expand...


Name a conservative advocate for minority rights? There are none.


----------



## rightwinger

Lumpy 1 said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You consider historical facts in regards to Democrats as BS..interesting...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Support for the Civil Rights Act was divided by REGION, not party. The conservative south against the liberal north.
> 
> There was not ONE southern conservative from either party that supported the bill. Fast forward to today, and it is still liberals who support the rights of minorities. Examples, gays, Hispanics and Muslims.
> 
> The history of mankind has been a struggle between those who want to increase freedom, opportunity and rights to all people and those who want to restrict them. The people who have always fought to increase freedom, opportunity and rights are liberals. The people who have fought to restrict them are conservatives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is why many consider you an unbalanced liar and not worth wasting their time with..
Click to expand...


You forgot to mention that his pants are on fire


----------



## Lumpy 1

rightwinger said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same old BS. You right wingers always leave out THIS:
> 
> By party and region
> 
> Note: "Southern", as used in this section, refers to members of Congress from the eleven states that made up the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. "Northern" refers to members from the other 39 states, regardless of the geographic location of those states.
> 
> The original House version:
> 
> Southern Democrats: 787   (7%93%)
> Southern Republicans: 010   (0%100%)
> 
> Northern Democrats: 145-9   (94%6%)
> Northern Republicans: 138-24   (85%15%)
> 
> The Senate version:
> 
> Southern Democrats: 120   (5%95%)
> Southern Republicans: 01   (0%100%)
> Northern Democrats: 45-1   (98%2%)
> Northern Republicans: 27-5   (84%16%)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You consider historical facts in regards to Democrats as BS..interesting...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 100% of Southern Republicans voted against the Civil Rights Act
> 
> Also, 16% of NORTHERN Republicans opposed it vs 5% of Democrats
Click to expand...


 Alas Right-tingler, without Republicans it was doomed to failure, so say Thank You and move on...


----------



## Lumpy 1

BDBoop said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> More comedy rightwinger...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only the right is in violent opposition to those quotes from JFK. They were then.....still are today
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some things never change.
Click to expand...


BDBoop agrees, so you must be misinformed..


----------



## rightwinger

Lumpy 1 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You consider historical facts in regards to Democrats as BS..interesting...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 100% of Southern Republicans voted against the Civil Rights Act
> 
> Also, 16% of NORTHERN Republicans opposed it vs 5% of Democrats
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Alas Right-tingler, without Republicans it was doomed to failure, so say Thank You and move on...
Click to expand...


Ummmmm.......it wouldn't have passed without the Democrats either

You are welcome


----------



## Lumpy 1

rightwinger said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 100% of Southern Republicans voted against the Civil Rights Act
> 
> Also, 16% of NORTHERN Republicans opposed it vs 5% of Democrats
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alas Right-tingler, without Republicans it was doomed to failure, so say Thank You and move on...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ummmmm.......it wouldn't have passed without the Democrats either
> 
> You are welcome
Click to expand...


Those were the Days.. you're the girl (as usual)..

[ame=http://youtu.be/AyaTIXdN5fI]Mary Hopkin Those were the days - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Sarah G

Dante said:


> [MENTION=19734]Lumpy 1[/MENTION]
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where have They All Gone..?
> 
> My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> The best road to progress is freedom's road.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> 
> John F. Kennedy Quotes - BrainyQuote
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imbeciles who selectively pick quotes of JFK to denounce Democrats today deserve to be mocked.
> 
> JFK was more like his brothers Bobby and Ted than most people would like to believe.
> 
> JFK was not a supply side follower, but he did go against the wisdom of some of his advisors
> and chose the wisdom of other advisors in using tax cuts in a demand side scheme.
> 
> JFK was despised and condemned by most every conservative and right winger of his day...and even by many leftists.....you most likely interchangeably use the terms Democrat, progressive, leftist, liberal....to describe some mythic group
> 
> Now please...stfu
Click to expand...


HaHa Wingnuts have always tried to claim the beloved JFK as a president who would really hate the Democrats of today.  He laughed about Republicans..

JFK Humor

"I have just received the following telegram from my generous Daddy. It says, "Dear Jack: Don't buy a single vote more than is necessary. I'll be damned if I'm going to pay for a landslide." (Gridiron Dinner, Washington, D.C., 1958) 

"Several nights ago, I dreamed that the good Lord touched me on the shoulder and said, 'Don't worry, you'll be the Democratic presidential nominee in 1960. What's more, you'll be elected.' I told Stu Symington about my dream. 'Funny thing,' said Stu, 'I had the same dream myself.' We both told our dreams to Lyndon Johnson, and Johnson said, 'That's funny. For the life of me, I can't remember tapping either of you two boys for the job.' 

"Mr. Nixon in the last seven days has called me an economic ignoramus, a Pied Piper, and all the rest. I've just confined myself to calling him a Republican, but he says that is getting low." 

"I have sent him [former President Harry S Truman] the following wire: 'Dear Mr. President: I have noted with interest your suggestion as to where those who vote for my opponent should go. While I understand and sympathize with your deep motivation, I think it is important that our side try to refrain from raising the religious issue." 


Question: The Republican National Committee recently adopted a resolution saying you were pretty much of a failure. How do you feel about that? 

President Kennedy: I assume it passed unanimously.   (July 17, 1963) 

Question: Senator, when does the moratorium end on Nixon's hospitalization and your ability to attack him? 

Kennedy: Well, I said I would not mention him unless I could praise him until he got out of the hospital, and I have not mentioned him. (September 9, 1960)


----------



## GWV5903

Bfgrn said:


> GWV5903 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> FACTS...
> 
> Civil Rights Act of 1964
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Origins
> 
> The bill was called for by President John F. Kennedy in his civil rights speech of June 11, 1963, in which he asked for legislation "giving all Americans the right to be served in facilities which are open to the publichotels, restaurants, theaters, retail stores, and similar establishments," as well as "greater protection for the right to vote." Kennedy delivered this speech following a series of protests from the African-American community, the most concurrent being the Birmingham campaign which concluded in May 1963.
> 
> Emulating the Civil Rights Act of 1875, Kennedy's civil rights bill included provisions to ban discrimination in public accommodations, and to enable the U.S. Attorney General to join in lawsuits against state governments which operated segregated school systems, among other provisions. However, it did not include a number of provisions deemed essential by civil rights leaders including protection against police brutality, ending discrimination in private employment, or granting the Justice Department power to initiate desegregation or job discrimination lawsuits.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wiki really?
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Are you disputing the FACTS GWV? You are welcome to try to disprove it.*
> 
> Our Documents - Civil Rights Act (1964)
> 
> In a nationally televised address on June 6, 1963, President John F. Kennedy urged the nation to take action toward guaranteeing equal treatment of every American regardless of race. Soon after, Kennedy proposed that Congress consider civil rights legislation that would address voting rights, public accommodations, school desegregation, nondiscrimination in federally assisted programs, and more.
> 
> Despite Kennedys assassination in November of 1963, his proposal culminated in the Civil Rights Act of 1964, signed into law by President Lyndon Johnson just a few hours after House approval on July 2, 1964.
Click to expand...


Eisenhower proposed Civil Rights legislation in '57, Kennedy opposed it because the party chiefs did not want it happening under a Republican Administration...

Johnson was a Southern Democrat, ****** was part of his normal vocabulary...

I'll make you a bet, game? 

Here's the bet: Which party had a higher percentage of it's members vote for the '64 act, Democrats or Republicans?


----------



## Lumpy 1

Dante said:


> [MENTION=19734]Lumpy 1[/MENTION]
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where have They All Gone..?
> 
> My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> The best road to progress is freedom's road.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> 
> John F. Kennedy Quotes - BrainyQuote
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imbeciles who selectively pick quotes of JFK to denounce Democrats today deserve to be mocked.
> 
> JFK was more like his brothers Bobby and Ted than most people would like to believe.
> 
> JFK was not a supply side follower, but he did go against the wisdom of some of his advisors
> and chose the wisdom of other advisors in using tax cuts in a demand side scheme.
> 
> JFK was despised and condemned by most every conservative and right winger of his day...and even by many leftists.....you most likely interchangeably use the terms Democrat, progressive, leftist, liberal....to describe some mythic group
> 
> Now please...stfu
Click to expand...


I'm sensing guilt, excuses and boring stuff, did Gollum find his heart ?


----------



## Lumpy 1

rightwinger said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 100% of Southern Republicans voted against the Civil Rights Act
> 
> Also, 16% of NORTHERN Republicans opposed it vs 5% of Democrats
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alas Right-tingler, without Republicans it was doomed to failure, so say Thank You and move on...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ummmmm.......it wouldn't have passed without the Democrats either
> 
> You are welcome
Click to expand...


Some people just aren't equipped to say Thank You, they're mostly Democrats..


----------



## GWV5903

Sarah G said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> [MENTION=19734]Lumpy 1[/MENTION]
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where have They All Gone..?
> 
> My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> The best road to progress is freedom's road.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> 
> John F. Kennedy Quotes - BrainyQuote
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imbeciles who selectively pick quotes of JFK to denounce Democrats today deserve to be mocked.
> 
> JFK was more like his brothers Bobby and Ted than most people would like to believe.
> 
> JFK was not a supply side follower, but he did go against the wisdom of some of his advisors
> and chose the wisdom of other advisors in using tax cuts in a demand side scheme.
> 
> JFK was despised and condemned by most every conservative and right winger of his day...and even by many leftists.....you most likely interchangeably use the terms Democrat, progressive, leftist, liberal....to describe some mythic group
> 
> Now please...stfu
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> HaHa Wingnuts have always tried to claim the beloved JFK as a president who would really hate the Democrats of today.  He laughed about Republicans..
> 
> JFK Humor
> 
> "I have just received the following telegram from my generous Daddy. It says, "Dear Jack: Don't buy a single vote more than is necessary. I'll be damned if I'm going to pay for a landslide." (Gridiron Dinner, Washington, D.C., 1958)
> 
> "Several nights ago, I dreamed that the good Lord touched me on the shoulder and said, 'Don't worry, you'll be the Democratic presidential nominee in 1960. What's more, you'll be elected.' I told Stu Symington about my dream. 'Funny thing,' said Stu, 'I had the same dream myself.' We both told our dreams to Lyndon Johnson, and Johnson said, 'That's funny. For the life of me, I can't remember tapping either of you two boys for the job.'
> 
> "Mr. Nixon in the last seven days has called me an economic ignoramus, a Pied Piper, and all the rest. I've just confined myself to calling him a Republican, but he says that is getting low."
> 
> "I have sent him [former President Harry S Truman] the following wire: 'Dear Mr. President: I have noted with interest your suggestion as to where those who vote for my opponent should go. While I understand and sympathize with your deep motivation, I think it is important that our side try to refrain from raising the religious issue."
> 
> 
> Question: The Republican National Committee recently adopted a resolution saying you were pretty much of a failure. How do you feel about that?
> 
> President Kennedy: I assume it passed unanimously.   (July 17, 1963)
> 
> Question: Senator, when does the moratorium end on Nixon's hospitalization and your ability to attack him?
> 
> Kennedy: Well, I said I would not mention him unless I could praise him until he got out of the hospital, and I have not mentioned him. (September 9, 1960)
Click to expand...


I have never claimed him, never will...

He was an elitist, the family still is...


----------



## Dante

Lumpy 1 said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> [MENTION=19734]Lumpy 1[/MENTION]
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where have They All Gone..?
> 
> My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> The best road to progress is freedom's road.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> 
> John F. Kennedy Quotes - BrainyQuote
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imbeciles who selectively pick quotes of JFK to denounce Democrats today deserve to be mocked.
> 
> JFK was more like his brothers Bobby and Ted than most people would like to believe.
> 
> JFK was not a supply side follower, but he did go against the wisdom of some of his advisors
> and chose the wisdom of other advisors in using tax cuts in a demand side scheme.
> 
> JFK was despised and condemned by most every conservative and right winger of his day...and even by many leftists.....you most likely interchangeably use the terms Democrat, progressive, leftist, liberal....to describe some mythic group
> 
> Now please...stfu
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm sensing guilt, excuses and boring stuff, did Gollum find his heart ?
Click to expand...


 [MENTION=19734]Lumpy 1[/MENTION]


Lumpy 1 said:


> Where have They All Gone..?
> 
> My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> The best road to progress is freedom's road.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> 
> John F. Kennedy Quotes - BrainyQuote



Imbeciles who selectively pick quotes of JFK to denounce Democrats today deserve to be mocked.

JFK was more like his brothers Bobby and Ted than most people would like to believe.

JFK was not a supply side follower, but he did go against the wisdom of some of his advisors
 and chose the wisdom of other advisors in using tax cuts in a demand side scheme.

JFK was despised and condemned by most every conservative and right winger of his day...and even by many leftists.....you most likely interchangeably use the terms Democrat, progressive, leftist, liberal....to describe some mythic group

Now please...stfu



Lumpy 1 said:


> I remember the day he was killed .. I was in elementary school, we all were sent home from school and I recall the crying, the tears and an odd quiet on everyone's face. It changed the country..
> 
> ----------------------
> 
> 
> From the day it happened, the assassination of President John F. Kennedy was a story that was inextricably linked to television. The gravity and choked emotion in the voice of CBS anchor Walter Cronkite, as he made the official on-air announcement that the 46-year-old Kennedy was dead, reflected the countrys collective shock and grief.
> 
> TV remembers President John F. Kennedy, as the 50th anniversary of his assassination approaches | OregonLive.com





Oh please, what grade?  The memories of small children in times of stress or trauma are as unreliable as the claims of a self-proclaimed honest conservative rightwinger


----------



## Lumpy 1

Bfgrn said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Support for the Civil Rights Act was divided by REGION, not party. The conservative south against the liberal north.
> 
> There was not ONE southern conservative from either party that supported the bill. Fast forward to today, and it is still liberals who support the rights of minorities. Examples, gays, Hispanics and Muslims.
> 
> The history of mankind has been a struggle between those who want to increase freedom, opportunity and rights to all people and those who want to restrict them. The people who have always fought to increase freedom, opportunity and rights are liberals. The people who have fought to restrict them are conservatives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is why many consider you an unbalanced liar and not worth wasting their time with..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Name a conservative advocate for minority rights? There are none.
Click to expand...


Id rather apologize for being a temporary putz..

Now it's your turn..


----------



## Lumpy 1

Dante said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> [MENTION=19734]Lumpy 1[/MENTION]
> 
> 
> Imbeciles who selectively pick quotes of JFK to denounce Democrats today deserve to be mocked.
> 
> JFK was more like his brothers Bobby and Ted than most people would like to believe.
> 
> JFK was not a supply side follower, but he did go against the wisdom of some of his advisors
> and chose the wisdom of other advisors in using tax cuts in a demand side scheme.
> 
> JFK was despised and condemned by most every conservative and right winger of his day...and even by many leftists.....you most likely interchangeably use the terms Democrat, progressive, leftist, liberal....to describe some mythic group
> 
> Now please...stfu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sensing guilt, excuses and boring stuff, did Gollum find his heart ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> [MENTION=19734]Lumpy 1[/MENTION]
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where have They All Gone..?
> 
> My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> The best road to progress is freedom's road.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> 
> John F. Kennedy Quotes - BrainyQuote
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Imbeciles who selectively pick quotes of JFK to denounce Democrats today deserve to be mocked.
> 
> JFK was more like his brothers Bobby and Ted than most people would like to believe.
> 
> JFK was not a supply side follower, but he did go against the wisdom of some of his advisors
> and chose the wisdom of other advisors in using tax cuts in a demand side scheme.
> 
> JFK was despised and condemned by most every conservative and right winger of his day...and even by many leftists.....you most likely interchangeably use the terms Democrat, progressive, leftist, liberal....to describe some mythic group
> 
> Now please...stfu
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I remember the day he was killed .. I was in elementary school, we all were sent home from school and I recall the crying, the tears and an odd quiet on everyone's face. It changed the country..
> 
> ----------------------
> 
> 
> From the day it happened, the assassination of President John F. Kennedy was a story that was inextricably linked to television. The gravity and choked emotion in the voice of CBS anchor Walter Cronkite, as he made the official on-air announcement that the 46-year-old Kennedy was dead, reflected the countrys collective shock and grief.
> 
> TV remembers President John F. Kennedy, as the 50th anniversary of his assassination approaches | OregonLive.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please, what grade?  The memories of small children in times of stress or trauma are as unreliable as the claims of a self-proclaimed honest conservative rightwinger
Click to expand...


If there were a good son and a bad son which one would you prefer to be?

I know the answer... it's sooooo obvious..

I'm sorry, I just don't feel like being serious at this time..maybe later..

btw.. did you get that penile implant and if so, hows it working out..are the girls still laughing?


----------



## Bfgrn

GWV5903 said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> [MENTION=19734]Lumpy 1[/MENTION]
> 
> 
> Imbeciles who selectively pick quotes of JFK to denounce Democrats today deserve to be mocked.
> 
> JFK was more like his brothers Bobby and Ted than most people would like to believe.
> 
> JFK was not a supply side follower, but he did go against the wisdom of some of his advisors
> and chose the wisdom of other advisors in using tax cuts in a demand side scheme.
> 
> JFK was despised and condemned by most every conservative and right winger of his day...and even by many leftists.....you most likely interchangeably use the terms Democrat, progressive, leftist, liberal....to describe some mythic group
> 
> Now please...stfu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HaHa Wingnuts have always tried to claim the beloved JFK as a president who would really hate the Democrats of today.  He laughed about Republicans..
> 
> JFK Humor
> 
> "I have just received the following telegram from my generous Daddy. It says, "Dear Jack: Don't buy a single vote more than is necessary. I'll be damned if I'm going to pay for a landslide." (Gridiron Dinner, Washington, D.C., 1958)
> 
> "Several nights ago, I dreamed that the good Lord touched me on the shoulder and said, 'Don't worry, you'll be the Democratic presidential nominee in 1960. What's more, you'll be elected.' I told Stu Symington about my dream. 'Funny thing,' said Stu, 'I had the same dream myself.' We both told our dreams to Lyndon Johnson, and Johnson said, 'That's funny. For the life of me, I can't remember tapping either of you two boys for the job.'
> 
> "Mr. Nixon in the last seven days has called me an economic ignoramus, a Pied Piper, and all the rest. I've just confined myself to calling him a Republican, but he says that is getting low."
> 
> "I have sent him [former President Harry S Truman] the following wire: 'Dear Mr. President: I have noted with interest your suggestion as to where those who vote for my opponent should go. While I understand and sympathize with your deep motivation, I think it is important that our side try to refrain from raising the religious issue."
> 
> 
> Question: The Republican National Committee recently adopted a resolution saying you were pretty much of a failure. How do you feel about that?
> 
> President Kennedy: I assume it passed unanimously.   (July 17, 1963)
> 
> Question: Senator, when does the moratorium end on Nixon's hospitalization and your ability to attack him?
> 
> Kennedy: Well, I said I would not mention him unless I could praise him until he got out of the hospital, and I have not mentioned him. (September 9, 1960)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have never claimed him, never will...
> 
> He was an elitist, the family still is...
Click to expand...


A whole family of 'elitists', who have dedicated their public lives to helping the poor, the disabled, the disadvantaged and the forgotten.

Love 'em or hate 'em, the Kennedys have never been 'for sale'.

"The rights of every man are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened."
President John F. Kennedy


----------



## Bfgrn

Lumpy 1 said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is why many consider you an unbalanced liar and not worth wasting their time with..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Name a conservative advocate for minority rights? There are none.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Id rather apologize for being a temporary putz..
> 
> Now it's your turn..
Click to expand...


There have been a few...Everett Dirksen was a great man, and a master legislator.






The Greek definition of happiness is full use of ones powers along the lines of excellence.
President John F. Kennedy


----------



## jon_berzerk

Lumpy 1 said:


> Where have They All Gone..?
> 
> My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> The best road to progress is freedom's road.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> 
> John F. Kennedy Quotes - BrainyQuote



killing kennedy based on the book by Bill O'Reilly was on the Geo channel this evening 

pretty well done


----------



## Bfgrn

Sarah G said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> [MENTION=19734]Lumpy 1[/MENTION]
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where have They All Gone..?
> 
> My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> The best road to progress is freedom's road.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> 
> John F. Kennedy Quotes - BrainyQuote
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imbeciles who selectively pick quotes of JFK to denounce Democrats today deserve to be mocked.
> 
> JFK was more like his brothers Bobby and Ted than most people would like to believe.
> 
> JFK was not a supply side follower, but he did go against the wisdom of some of his advisors
> and chose the wisdom of other advisors in using tax cuts in a demand side scheme.
> 
> JFK was despised and condemned by most every conservative and right winger of his day...and even by many leftists.....you most likely interchangeably use the terms Democrat, progressive, leftist, liberal....to describe some mythic group
> 
> Now please...stfu
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> HaHa Wingnuts have always tried to claim the beloved JFK as a president who would really hate the Democrats of today.  He laughed about Republicans..
> 
> JFK Humor
> 
> "I have just received the following telegram from my generous Daddy. It says, "Dear Jack: Don't buy a single vote more than is necessary. I'll be damned if I'm going to pay for a landslide." (Gridiron Dinner, Washington, D.C., 1958)
> 
> "Several nights ago, I dreamed that the good Lord touched me on the shoulder and said, 'Don't worry, you'll be the Democratic presidential nominee in 1960. What's more, you'll be elected.' I told Stu Symington about my dream. 'Funny thing,' said Stu, 'I had the same dream myself.' We both told our dreams to Lyndon Johnson, and Johnson said, 'That's funny. For the life of me, I can't remember tapping either of you two boys for the job.'
> 
> "Mr. Nixon in the last seven days has called me an economic ignoramus, a Pied Piper, and all the rest. I've just confined myself to calling him a Republican, but he says that is getting low."
> 
> "I have sent him [former President Harry S Truman] the following wire: 'Dear Mr. President: I have noted with interest your suggestion as to where those who vote for my opponent should go. While I understand and sympathize with your deep motivation, I think it is important that our side try to refrain from raising the religious issue."
> 
> 
> Question: The Republican National Committee recently adopted a resolution saying you were pretty much of a failure. How do you feel about that?
> 
> President Kennedy: I assume it passed unanimously.   (July 17, 1963)
> 
> Question: Senator, when does the moratorium end on Nixon's hospitalization and your ability to attack him?
> 
> Kennedy: Well, I said I would not mention him unless I could praise him until he got out of the hospital, and I have not mentioned him. (September 9, 1960)
Click to expand...


I really miss the man's wit, wisdom and his great sense of humor. Abe Lincoln also had a great sense of humor. It kept both men grounded.

Here are a few more...

"Do you realize the responsibility I carry? I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."
President John F. Kennedy

"We have all seen these circus elephants complete with tusks, ivory in their head and thick skins, who move around the circus ring and grab the tail of the elephant ahead of them."
President John F. Kennedy


----------



## Bfgrn

GWV5903 said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> [MENTION=19734]Lumpy 1[/MENTION]
> 
> 
> Imbeciles who selectively pick quotes of JFK to denounce Democrats today deserve to be mocked.
> 
> JFK was more like his brothers Bobby and Ted than most people would like to believe.
> 
> JFK was not a supply side follower, but he did go against the wisdom of some of his advisors
> and chose the wisdom of other advisors in using tax cuts in a demand side scheme.
> 
> JFK was despised and condemned by most every conservative and right winger of his day...and even by many leftists.....you most likely interchangeably use the terms Democrat, progressive, leftist, liberal....to describe some mythic group
> 
> Now please...stfu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HaHa Wingnuts have always tried to claim the beloved JFK as a president who would really hate the Democrats of today.  He laughed about Republicans..
> 
> JFK Humor
> 
> "I have just received the following telegram from my generous Daddy. It says, "Dear Jack: Don't buy a single vote more than is necessary. I'll be damned if I'm going to pay for a landslide." (Gridiron Dinner, Washington, D.C., 1958)
> 
> "Several nights ago, I dreamed that the good Lord touched me on the shoulder and said, 'Don't worry, you'll be the Democratic presidential nominee in 1960. What's more, you'll be elected.' I told Stu Symington about my dream. 'Funny thing,' said Stu, 'I had the same dream myself.' We both told our dreams to Lyndon Johnson, and Johnson said, 'That's funny. For the life of me, I can't remember tapping either of you two boys for the job.'
> 
> "Mr. Nixon in the last seven days has called me an economic ignoramus, a Pied Piper, and all the rest. I've just confined myself to calling him a Republican, but he says that is getting low."
> 
> "I have sent him [former President Harry S Truman] the following wire: 'Dear Mr. President: I have noted with interest your suggestion as to where those who vote for my opponent should go. While I understand and sympathize with your deep motivation, I think it is important that our side try to refrain from raising the religious issue."
> 
> 
> Question: The Republican National Committee recently adopted a resolution saying you were pretty much of a failure. How do you feel about that?
> 
> President Kennedy: I assume it passed unanimously.   (July 17, 1963)
> 
> Question: Senator, when does the moratorium end on Nixon's hospitalization and your ability to attack him?
> 
> Kennedy: Well, I said I would not mention him unless I could praise him until he got out of the hospital, and I have not mentioned him. (September 9, 1960)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have never claimed him, never will...
> 
> He was an elitist, the family still is...
Click to expand...


JFK through the eyes of his Secret Service detail.

The Kennedy Detail: Memories of the President : Video : Discovery Channel


----------



## Doubletap

"My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"-John F. Kennedy
Be a slave to the State? No way, Johnny Boy.
Better to ask what your country is doing *to* you.


----------



## rightwinger

Doubletap said:


> "My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"-John F. Kennedy
> Be a slave to the State? No way, Johnny Boy.
> Better to ask what your country is doing *to* you.



We are a better country than we were in 1960


----------



## Sarah G

Bfgrn said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> [MENTION=19734]Lumpy 1[/MENTION]
> 
> 
> Imbeciles who selectively pick quotes of JFK to denounce Democrats today deserve to be mocked.
> 
> JFK was more like his brothers Bobby and Ted than most people would like to believe.
> 
> JFK was not a supply side follower, but he did go against the wisdom of some of his advisors
> and chose the wisdom of other advisors in using tax cuts in a demand side scheme.
> 
> JFK was despised and condemned by most every conservative and right winger of his day...and even by many leftists.....you most likely interchangeably use the terms Democrat, progressive, leftist, liberal....to describe some mythic group
> 
> Now please...stfu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HaHa Wingnuts have always tried to claim the beloved JFK as a president who would really hate the Democrats of today.  He laughed about Republicans..
> 
> JFK Humor
> 
> "I have just received the following telegram from my generous Daddy. It says, "Dear Jack: Don't buy a single vote more than is necessary. I'll be damned if I'm going to pay for a landslide." (Gridiron Dinner, Washington, D.C., 1958)
> 
> "Several nights ago, I dreamed that the good Lord touched me on the shoulder and said, 'Don't worry, you'll be the Democratic presidential nominee in 1960. What's more, you'll be elected.' I told Stu Symington about my dream. 'Funny thing,' said Stu, 'I had the same dream myself.' We both told our dreams to Lyndon Johnson, and Johnson said, 'That's funny. For the life of me, I can't remember tapping either of you two boys for the job.'
> 
> "Mr. Nixon in the last seven days has called me an economic ignoramus, a Pied Piper, and all the rest. I've just confined myself to calling him a Republican, but he says that is getting low."
> 
> "I have sent him [former President Harry S Truman] the following wire: 'Dear Mr. President: I have noted with interest your suggestion as to where those who vote for my opponent should go. While I understand and sympathize with your deep motivation, I think it is important that our side try to refrain from raising the religious issue."
> 
> 
> Question: The Republican National Committee recently adopted a resolution saying you were pretty much of a failure. How do you feel about that?
> 
> President Kennedy: I assume it passed unanimously.   (July 17, 1963)
> 
> Question: Senator, when does the moratorium end on Nixon's hospitalization and your ability to attack him?
> 
> Kennedy: Well, I said I would not mention him unless I could praise him until he got out of the hospital, and I have not mentioned him. (September 9, 1960)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I really miss the man's wit, wisdom and his great sense of humor. Abe Lincoln also had a great sense of humor. It kept both men grounded.
> 
> Here are a few more...
> 
> "Do you realize the responsibility I carry? I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."
> President John F. Kennedy
> 
> "We have all seen these circus elephants complete with tusks, ivory in their head and thick skins, who move around the circus ring and grab the tail of the elephant ahead of them."
> President John F. Kennedy
Click to expand...


  He was a charmer.  That's funny.


----------



## Doubletap

rightwinger said:


> Doubletap said:
> 
> 
> 
> "My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"-John F. Kennedy
> Be a slave to the State? No way, Johnny Boy.
> Better to ask what your country is doing *to* you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are a better country than we were in 1960
Click to expand...


Better? How? Surely you jest.
The dollar is worth less, taxes have increased, the size & scope of government has grown, more people on food stamps, unemployment has increased, record deficit, etc. etc..
Now you can avoid the reality of this but you can not avoid the consequences of avoiding that reality.


----------



## Doubletap

well "rightwinger"
What say you?
 tick-toc-tic toc


----------



## rightwinger

Doubletap said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doubletap said:
> 
> 
> 
> "My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"-John F. Kennedy
> Be a slave to the State? No way, Johnny Boy.
> Better to ask what your country is doing *to* you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are a better country than we were in 1960
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Better? How? Surely you jest.
> The dollar is worth less, taxes have increased, the size & scope of government has grown, more people on food stamps, unemployment has increased, record deficit, etc. etc..
> Now you can avoid the reality of this but you can not avoid the consequences of avoiding that reality.
Click to expand...


It may have been a better country for you in 1960 if you were a white male Christian.  Since 1960 we have passed Civil Rights, Ecological reform, gay rights, women's rights.  We won the Cold War, put a man on the moon.

Ever see the riots in the 1960s?
We treat our citizens better today than we did in 1960


----------



## whitehall

JFK (and his quirky brother) signed his death warrant when he authorized the CIA to play spy games with Lee Oswald.


----------



## rightwinger

whitehall said:


> JFK (and his quirky brother) signed his death warrant when he authorized the CIA to play spy games with Lee Oswald.



Zzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## Doubletap

Rightwinger-- "Civil Rights" "gay rights, women's rights"--There are only individual/property rights
"Ecological reform" For the sake of owls, fish & plankton, businesses have been eradicated.
 "We won the Cold War, put a man on the moon" yeah, but at whose expense? Was it necessary?

You seem to be needing a clear definition of "rights", so let me provide one:
A &#8220;right&#8221; is a moral principle defining and sanctioning a man&#8217;s freedom of action in a social context. There is only one fundamental right (all the others are its consequences or corollaries): a man&#8217;s right to his own life. Life is a process of self-sustaining and self-generated action; the right to life means the right to engage in self-sustaining and self-generated action&#8212;which means: the freedom to take all the actions required by the nature of a rational being for the support, the furtherance, the fulfillment and the enjoyment of his own life. (Such is the meaning of the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.)

The concept of a &#8220;right&#8221; pertains only to action&#8212;specifically, to freedom of action. It means freedom from physical compulsion, coercion or interference by other men.

Thus, for every individual, a right is the moral sanction of a positive&#8212;of his freedom to act on his own judgment, for his own goals, by his own voluntary, uncoerced choice. As to his neighbors, his rights impose no obligations on them except of a negative kind: to abstain from violating his rights.

The right to life is the source of all rights&#8212;and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.

Bear in mind that the right to property is a right to action, like all the others: it is not the right to an object, but to the action and the consequences of producing or earning that object. It is not a guarantee that a man will earn any property, but only a guarantee that he will own it if he earns it. It is the right to gain, to keep, to use and to dispose of material values.


----------



## BDBoop

rightwinger said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> JFK (and his quirky brother) signed his death warrant when he authorized the CIA to play spy games with Lee Oswald.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zzzzzzzzzzz
Click to expand...


/poke

"9/11 was an inside job!!!!"


----------



## Lumpy 1

Doubletap said:


> Rightwinger-- "Civil Rights" "gay rights, women's rights"--There are only individual/property rights
> "Ecological reform" For the sake of owls, fish & plankton, businesses have been eradicated.
> "We won the Cold War, put a man on the moon" yeah, but at whose expense? Was it necessary?
> 
> You seem to be needing a clear definition of "rights", so let me provide one:
> A right is a moral principle defining and sanctioning a mans freedom of action in a social context. There is only one fundamental right (all the others are its consequences or corollaries): a mans right to his own life. Life is a process of self-sustaining and self-generated action; the right to life means the right to engage in self-sustaining and self-generated actionwhich means: the freedom to take all the actions required by the nature of a rational being for the support, the furtherance, the fulfillment and the enjoyment of his own life. (Such is the meaning of the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.)
> 
> The concept of a right pertains only to actionspecifically, to freedom of action. It means freedom from physical compulsion, coercion or interference by other men.
> 
> Thus, for every individual, a right is the moral sanction of a positiveof his freedom to act on his own judgment, for his own goals, by his own voluntary, uncoerced choice. As to his neighbors, his rights impose no obligations on them except of a negative kind: to abstain from violating his rights.
> 
> The right to life is the source of all rightsand the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.
> 
> Bear in mind that the right to property is a right to action, like all the others: it is not the right to an object, but to the action and the consequences of producing or earning that object. It is not a guarantee that a man will earn any property, but only a guarantee that he will own it if he earns it. It is the right to gain, to keep, to use and to dispose of material values.



That's a mole hill in comparison to the mountain that what Rightwinger requires..just sayin 

Valiant yet doomed effort though..


----------



## rightwinger

Doubletap said:


> Rightwinger-- "Civil Rights" "gay rights, women's rights"--There are only individual/property rights
> "Ecological reform" For the sake of owls, fish & plankton, businesses have been eradicated.
> "We won the Cold War, put a man on the moon" yeah, but at whose expense? Was it necessary?
> 
> You seem to be needing a clear definition of "rights", so let me provide one:
> A right is a moral principle defining and sanctioning a mans freedom of action in a social context. There is only one fundamental right (all the others are its consequences or corollaries): a mans right to his own life. Life is a process of self-sustaining and self-generated action; the right to life means the right to engage in self-sustaining and self-generated actionwhich means: the freedom to take all the actions required by the nature of a rational being for the support, the furtherance, the fulfillment and the enjoyment of his own life. (Such is the meaning of the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.)
> 
> The concept of a right pertains only to actionspecifically, to freedom of action. It means freedom from physical compulsion, coercion or interference by other men.
> 
> Thus, for every individual, a right is the moral sanction of a positiveof his freedom to act on his own judgment, for his own goals, by his own voluntary, uncoerced choice. As to his neighbors, his rights impose no obligations on them except of a negative kind: to abstain from violating his rights.
> 
> The right to life is the source of all rightsand the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.
> 
> Bear in mind that the right to property is a right to action, like all the others: it is not the right to an object, but to the action and the consequences of producing or earning that object. It is not a guarantee that a man will earn any property, but only a guarantee that he will own it if he earns it. It is the right to gain, to keep, to use and to dispose of material values.



In 1960 blacks were still relegated to second class citizenship. Women only had access to limited careers and had restricted marital rights. Gays had no rights at all and were imprisoned if found in the military. Companies openly spewed filth into the air and rivers. 
We were entering VietNam where 60,000 boys were sent to their deaths. 
Assassinations were rampant 
I would much rather live today than have to relive the 60s


----------



## Lumpy 1

rightwinger said:


> Doubletap said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rightwinger-- "Civil Rights" "gay rights, women's rights"--There are only individual/property rights
> "Ecological reform" For the sake of owls, fish & plankton, businesses have been eradicated.
> "We won the Cold War, put a man on the moon" yeah, but at whose expense? Was it necessary?
> 
> You seem to be needing a clear definition of "rights", so let me provide one:
> A &#8220;right&#8221; is a moral principle defining and sanctioning a man&#8217;s freedom of action in a social context. There is only one fundamental right (all the others are its consequences or corollaries): a man&#8217;s right to his own life. Life is a process of self-sustaining and self-generated action; the right to life means the right to engage in self-sustaining and self-generated action&#8212;which means: the freedom to take all the actions required by the nature of a rational being for the support, the furtherance, the fulfillment and the enjoyment of his own life. (Such is the meaning of the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.)
> 
> The concept of a &#8220;right&#8221; pertains only to action&#8212;specifically, to freedom of action. It means freedom from physical compulsion, coercion or interference by other men.
> 
> Thus, for every individual, a right is the moral sanction of a positive&#8212;of his freedom to act on his own judgment, for his own goals, by his own voluntary, uncoerced choice. As to his neighbors, his rights impose no obligations on them except of a negative kind: to abstain from violating his rights.
> 
> The right to life is the source of all rights&#8212;and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.
> 
> Bear in mind that the right to property is a right to action, like all the others: it is not the right to an object, but to the action and the consequences of producing or earning that object. It is not a guarantee that a man will earn any property, but only a guarantee that he will own it if he earns it. It is the right to gain, to keep, to use and to dispose of material values.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1960 blacks were still relegated to second class citizenship. Women only had access to limited careers and had restricted marital rights. Gays had no rights at all and were imprisoned if found in the military. Companies openly spewed filth into the air and rivers.
> We were entering VietNam where 60,000 boys were sent to their deaths.
> Assassinations were rampant
> I would much rather live today than have to relive the 60s
Click to expand...


I blame Democrat control of Congress pre 1960, when Republicans gained power, human rights certainly improved. 

Selective memory Democrats, talking a good game but the reality is quite a different story.


----------



## rightwinger

Lumpy 1 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doubletap said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rightwinger-- "Civil Rights" "gay rights, women's rights"--There are only individual/property rights
> "Ecological reform" For the sake of owls, fish & plankton, businesses have been eradicated.
> "We won the Cold War, put a man on the moon" yeah, but at whose expense? Was it necessary?
> 
> You seem to be needing a clear definition of "rights", so let me provide one:
> A right is a moral principle defining and sanctioning a mans freedom of action in a social context. There is only one fundamental right (all the others are its consequences or corollaries): a mans right to his own life. Life is a process of self-sustaining and self-generated action; the right to life means the right to engage in self-sustaining and self-generated actionwhich means: the freedom to take all the actions required by the nature of a rational being for the support, the furtherance, the fulfillment and the enjoyment of his own life. (Such is the meaning of the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.)
> 
> The concept of a right pertains only to actionspecifically, to freedom of action. It means freedom from physical compulsion, coercion or interference by other men.
> 
> Thus, for every individual, a right is the moral sanction of a positiveof his freedom to act on his own judgment, for his own goals, by his own voluntary, uncoerced choice. As to his neighbors, his rights impose no obligations on them except of a negative kind: to abstain from violating his rights.
> 
> The right to life is the source of all rightsand the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.
> 
> Bear in mind that the right to property is a right to action, like all the others: it is not the right to an object, but to the action and the consequences of producing or earning that object. It is not a guarantee that a man will earn any property, but only a guarantee that he will own it if he earns it. It is the right to gain, to keep, to use and to dispose of material values.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1960 blacks were still relegated to second class citizenship. Women only had access to limited careers and had restricted marital rights. Gays had no rights at all and were imprisoned if found in the military. Companies openly spewed filth into the air and rivers.
> We were entering VietNam where 60,000 boys were sent to their deaths.
> Assassinations were rampant
> I would much rather live today than have to relive the 60s
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I blame Democrat control of Congress pre 1960, when Republicans gained power, human rights certainly improved.
> 
> Selective memory Democrats, talking a good game but the reality is quite a different story.
Click to expand...


Different country....different politics

Things were more Liberal/Conservative than Democrat/ Republican
They actually had Liberal Republicans and Conservative Democrats
One thing we can be sure of........Conservatives fucked things up in the 60s

Just like today


----------



## Lumpy 1

Grab a doobie

[ame=http://youtu.be/2y_9hwW1eV0]THE MOODY BLUES - DAYS OF FUTURE PASSED Full Album 1967 (HD) - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Doubletap

rightwinger said:


> Doubletap said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rightwinger-- "Civil Rights" "gay rights, women's rights"--There are only individual/property rights
> "Ecological reform" For the sake of owls, fish & plankton, businesses have been eradicated.
> "We won the Cold War, put a man on the moon" yeah, but at whose expense? Was it necessary?
> 
> You seem to be needing a clear definition of "rights", so let me provide one:
> A &#8220;right&#8221; is a moral principle defining and sanctioning a man&#8217;s freedom of action in a social context. There is only one fundamental right (all the others are its consequences or corollaries): a man&#8217;s right to his own life. Life is a process of self-sustaining and self-generated action; the right to life means the right to engage in self-sustaining and self-generated action&#8212;which means: the freedom to take all the actions required by the nature of a rational being for the support, the furtherance, the fulfillment and the enjoyment of his own life. (Such is the meaning of the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.)
> 
> The concept of a &#8220;right&#8221; pertains only to action&#8212;specifically, to freedom of action. It means freedom from physical compulsion, coercion or interference by other men.
> 
> Thus, for every individual, a right is the moral sanction of a positive&#8212;of his freedom to act on his own judgment, for his own goals, by his own voluntary, uncoerced choice. As to his neighbors, his rights impose no obligations on them except of a negative kind: to abstain from violating his rights.
> 
> The right to life is the source of all rights&#8212;and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.
> 
> Bear in mind that the right to property is a right to action, like all the others: it is not the right to an object, but to the action and the consequences of producing or earning that object. It is not a guarantee that a man will earn any property, but only a guarantee that he will own it if he earns it. It is the right to gain, to keep, to use and to dispose of material values.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1960 blacks were still relegated to second class citizenship. Women only had access to limited careers and had restricted marital rights. Gays had no rights at all and were imprisoned if found in the military. Companies openly spewed filth into the air and rivers.
> We were entering VietNam where 60,000 boys were sent to their deaths.
> Assassinations were rampant
> I would much rather live today than have to relive the 60s
Click to expand...

 
Prefer what you want. 
*Understand* the explanation of rights for the now & future-it's absolutely essential.


----------



## Doubletap

Lumpy 1 said:


> Doubletap said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rightwinger-- "Civil Rights" "gay rights, women's rights"--There are only individual/property rights
> "Ecological reform" For the sake of owls, fish & plankton, businesses have been eradicated.
> "We won the Cold War, put a man on the moon" yeah, but at whose expense? Was it necessary?
> 
> You seem to be needing a clear definition of "rights", so let me provide one:
> A right is a moral principle defining and sanctioning a mans freedom of action in a social context. There is only one fundamental right (all the others are its consequences or corollaries): a mans right to his own life. Life is a process of self-sustaining and self-generated action; the right to life means the right to engage in self-sustaining and self-generated actionwhich means: the freedom to take all the actions required by the nature of a rational being for the support, the furtherance, the fulfillment and the enjoyment of his own life. (Such is the meaning of the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.)
> 
> The concept of a right pertains only to actionspecifically, to freedom of action. It means freedom from physical compulsion, coercion or interference by other men.
> 
> Thus, for every individual, a right is the moral sanction of a positiveof his freedom to act on his own judgment, for his own goals, by his own voluntary, uncoerced choice. As to his neighbors, his rights impose no obligations on them except of a negative kind: to abstain from violating his rights.
> 
> The right to life is the source of all rightsand the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.
> 
> Bear in mind that the right to property is a right to action, like all the others: it is not the right to an object, but to the action and the consequences of producing or earning that object. It is not a guarantee that a man will earn any property, but only a guarantee that he will own it if he earns it. It is the right to gain, to keep, to use and to dispose of material values.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a mole hill in comparison to the mountain that what Rightwinger requires..just sayin
> 
> Valiant yet doomed effort though..
Click to expand...


I hear you. Still it's a start for those who believe they have a right to the lives, products or services of others.


----------



## Bfgrn

Lumpy 1 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doubletap said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rightwinger-- "Civil Rights" "gay rights, women's rights"--There are only individual/property rights
> "Ecological reform" For the sake of owls, fish & plankton, businesses have been eradicated.
> "We won the Cold War, put a man on the moon" yeah, but at whose expense? Was it necessary?
> 
> You seem to be needing a clear definition of "rights", so let me provide one:
> A right is a moral principle defining and sanctioning a mans freedom of action in a social context. There is only one fundamental right (all the others are its consequences or corollaries): a mans right to his own life. Life is a process of self-sustaining and self-generated action; the right to life means the right to engage in self-sustaining and self-generated actionwhich means: the freedom to take all the actions required by the nature of a rational being for the support, the furtherance, the fulfillment and the enjoyment of his own life. (Such is the meaning of the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.)
> 
> The concept of a right pertains only to actionspecifically, to freedom of action. It means freedom from physical compulsion, coercion or interference by other men.
> 
> Thus, for every individual, a right is the moral sanction of a positiveof his freedom to act on his own judgment, for his own goals, by his own voluntary, uncoerced choice. As to his neighbors, his rights impose no obligations on them except of a negative kind: to abstain from violating his rights.
> 
> The right to life is the source of all rightsand the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.
> 
> Bear in mind that the right to property is a right to action, like all the others: it is not the right to an object, but to the action and the consequences of producing or earning that object. It is not a guarantee that a man will earn any property, but only a guarantee that he will own it if he earns it. It is the right to gain, to keep, to use and to dispose of material values.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1960 blacks were still relegated to second class citizenship. Women only had access to limited careers and had restricted marital rights. Gays had no rights at all and were imprisoned if found in the military. Companies openly spewed filth into the air and rivers.
> We were entering VietNam where 60,000 boys were sent to their deaths.
> Assassinations were rampant
> I would much rather live today than have to relive the 60s
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I blame Democrat control of Congress pre 1960, when Republicans gained power, human rights certainly improved.
> 
> Selective memory Democrats, talking a good game but the reality is quite a different story.
Click to expand...


Harry disagrees...






"Republicans approve of the American farmer, but they are willing to help him go broke. They stand four-square for the American home--but not for housing. They are strong for labor--but they are stronger for restricting labor's rights. They favor minimum wage--the smaller the minimum wage the better. They endorse educational opportunity for all--but they won't spend money for teachers or for schools. They approve of social security benefits-so much so that they took them away from almost a million people. They think modern medical care and hospitals are fine--for people who can afford them. They believe in international trade--so much so that they crippled our reciprocal trade program, and killed our International Wheat Agreement. They favor the admission of displaced persons--but only within shameful racial and religious limitations.They consider electrical power a great blessing--but only when the private power companies get their rake-off. They say TVA is wonderful--but we ought never to try it again. They condemn "cruelly high prices"--but fight to the death every effort to bring them down. They think American standard of living is a fine thing--so long as it doesn't spread to all the people. And they admire of Government of the United States so much that they would like to buy it."
President Harry S. Truman - October 13, 1948


----------



## rightwinger

Doubletap said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doubletap said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rightwinger-- "Civil Rights" "gay rights, women's rights"--There are only individual/property rights
> "Ecological reform" For the sake of owls, fish & plankton, businesses have been eradicated.
> "We won the Cold War, put a man on the moon" yeah, but at whose expense? Was it necessary?
> 
> You seem to be needing a clear definition of "rights", so let me provide one:
> A right is a moral principle defining and sanctioning a mans freedom of action in a social context. There is only one fundamental right (all the others are its consequences or corollaries): a mans right to his own life. Life is a process of self-sustaining and self-generated action; the right to life means the right to engage in self-sustaining and self-generated actionwhich means: the freedom to take all the actions required by the nature of a rational being for the support, the furtherance, the fulfillment and the enjoyment of his own life. (Such is the meaning of the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.)
> 
> The concept of a right pertains only to actionspecifically, to freedom of action. It means freedom from physical compulsion, coercion or interference by other men.
> 
> Thus, for every individual, a right is the moral sanction of a positiveof his freedom to act on his own judgment, for his own goals, by his own voluntary, uncoerced choice. As to his neighbors, his rights impose no obligations on them except of a negative kind: to abstain from violating his rights.
> 
> The right to life is the source of all rightsand the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.
> 
> Bear in mind that the right to property is a right to action, like all the others: it is not the right to an object, but to the action and the consequences of producing or earning that object. It is not a guarantee that a man will earn any property, but only a guarantee that he will own it if he earns it. It is the right to gain, to keep, to use and to dispose of material values.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1960 blacks were still relegated to second class citizenship. Women only had access to limited careers and had restricted marital rights. Gays had no rights at all and were imprisoned if found in the military. Companies openly spewed filth into the air and rivers.
> We were entering VietNam where 60,000 boys were sent to their deaths.
> Assassinations were rampant
> I would much rather live today than have to relive the 60s
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Prefer what you want.
> *Understand* the explanation of rights for the now & future-it's absolutely essential.
Click to expand...


Your definition of rights is total nonsense. That is why I ignored responding to it


----------



## rightwinger

Doubletap said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doubletap said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rightwinger-- "Civil Rights" "gay rights, women's rights"--There are only individual/property rights
> "Ecological reform" For the sake of owls, fish & plankton, businesses have been eradicated.
> "We won the Cold War, put a man on the moon" yeah, but at whose expense? Was it necessary?
> 
> You seem to be needing a clear definition of "rights", so let me provide one:
> A right is a moral principle defining and sanctioning a mans freedom of action in a social context. There is only one fundamental right (all the others are its consequences or corollaries): a mans right to his own life. Life is a process of self-sustaining and self-generated action; the right to life means the right to engage in self-sustaining and self-generated actionwhich means: the freedom to take all the actions required by the nature of a rational being for the support, the furtherance, the fulfillment and the enjoyment of his own life. (Such is the meaning of the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.)
> 
> The concept of a right pertains only to actionspecifically, to freedom of action. It means freedom from physical compulsion, coercion or interference by other men.
> 
> Thus, for every individual, a right is the moral sanction of a positiveof his freedom to act on his own judgment, for his own goals, by his own voluntary, uncoerced choice. As to his neighbors, his rights impose no obligations on them except of a negative kind: to abstain from violating his rights.
> 
> The right to life is the source of all rightsand the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.
> 
> Bear in mind that the right to property is a right to action, like all the others: it is not the right to an object, but to the action and the consequences of producing or earning that object. It is not a guarantee that a man will earn any property, but only a guarantee that he will own it if he earns it. It is the right to gain, to keep, to use and to dispose of material values.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a mole hill in comparison to the mountain that what Rightwinger requires..just sayin
> 
> Valiant yet doomed effort though..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I hear you. Still it's a start for those who believe they have a right to the lives, products or services of others.
Click to expand...


Man realized thousands of years ago that his power and standard of living increased substantially when he stopped operating as an individual animal but as a member of a society
A society gave him strength, security, safety, protection and economic power. Part of belonging to a society means that you have to contribute to it. That means you contribute some of your product and services for the good of the group.

Simple concept that is beyond the grasp of libertarians


----------



## Lumpy 1

rightwinger said:


> Doubletap said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a mole hill in comparison to the mountain that what Rightwinger requires..just sayin
> 
> Valiant yet doomed effort though..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hear you. Still it's a start for those who believe they have a right to the lives, products or services of others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Man realized thousands of years ago that his power and standard of living increased substantially when he stopped operating as an individual animal but as a member of a society
> A society gave him strength, security, safety, protection and economic power. Part of belonging to a society means that you have to contribute to it. That means you contribute some of your product and services for the good of the group.
> 
> Simple concept that is beyond the grasp of libertarians
Click to expand...


There also was slaves, indentured servants, lifetimes of force military service basically many were just fodder for the Masters.

America created a middle-class, liberalism/Democrats are purposely diminishing that for the greater good they believe.


----------



## rightwinger

Lumpy 1 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doubletap said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hear you. Still it's a start for those who believe they have a right to the lives, products or services of others.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man realized thousands of years ago that his power and standard of living increased substantially when he stopped operating as an individual animal but as a member of a society
> A society gave him strength, security, safety, protection and economic power. Part of belonging to a society means that you have to contribute to it. That means you contribute some of your product and services for the good of the group.
> 
> Simple concept that is beyond the grasp of libertarians
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There also was slaves, indentured servants, lifetimes of force military service basically many were just fodder for the Masters.
> 
> America created a middle-class, liberalism/Democrats are purposely diminishing that for the greater good they believe.
Click to expand...


Reagan destroyed the Middle Class with his massive tax breaks for the wealthy and war on labor rights


----------



## Lumpy 1

rightwinger said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man realized thousands of years ago that his power and standard of living increased substantially when he stopped operating as an individual animal but as a member of a society
> A society gave him strength, security, safety, protection and economic power. Part of belonging to a society means that you have to contribute to it. That means you contribute some of your product and services for the good of the group.
> 
> Simple concept that is beyond the grasp of libertarians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There also was slaves, indentured servants, lifetimes of force military service basically many were just fodder for the Masters.
> 
> America created a middle-class, liberalism/Democrats are purposely diminishing that for the greater good they believe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Reagan destroyed the Middle Class with his massive tax breaks for the wealthy and war on labor rights
Click to expand...


The poor don't pay, the rich and corporations just pass it along and the middle-class foots the bill..just sayin


----------



## gipper

rightwinger said:


> Doubletap said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a mole hill in comparison to the mountain that what Rightwinger requires..just sayin
> 
> Valiant yet doomed effort though..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hear you. Still it's a start for those who believe they have a right to the lives, products or services of others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Man realized thousands of years ago that his power and standard of living increased substantially when he stopped operating as an individual animal but as a member of a society
> A society gave him strength, security, safety, protection and economic power. Part of belonging to a society means that you have to contribute to it. That means you contribute some of your product and services for the good of the group.
> 
> Simple concept that is beyond the grasp of libertarians
Click to expand...


What is beyond your grasp is a very simple FACT.  Government, whether by king, queen, dictator, ruler, or elected leader has been the system most humans have suffered under throughout recorded history.  And these forms of "government" have caused more death, destruction, and suffering than any other cause known to man.  More than natural disasters, famines, disease, etc..........

And yet, sadly...many believe government run by corrupt elites with unlimited power, is good and the appropriate structure for managing (controlling) human affairs.  CRAZY!!!

Americans use to be taught the EVILS of government, but for some time now the government has brainwashed many into thinking government is GOOD.  How can people be so ignorant when history clearly proves otherwise?  The dumbing down of Americans is complete....thanks to leftism.

This statement use to be known and believed by all Americans:
*Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
George Washington *


----------



## rightwinger

gipper said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doubletap said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hear you. Still it's a start for those who believe they have a right to the lives, products or services of others.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man realized thousands of years ago that his power and standard of living increased substantially when he stopped operating as an individual animal but as a member of a society
> A society gave him strength, security, safety, protection and economic power. Part of belonging to a society means that you have to contribute to it. That means you contribute some of your product and services for the good of the group.
> 
> Simple concept that is beyond the grasp of libertarians
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is beyond your grasp is a very simple FACT.  Government, whether by king, queen, dictator, ruler, or elected leader has been the system most humans have suffered under throughout recorded history.  And these forms of "government" have caused more death, destruction, and suffering than any other cause known to man.  More than natural disasters, famines, disease, etc..........
> 
> And yet, sadly...many believe government run by corrupt elites with unlimited power, is good and the appropriate structure for managing (controlling) human affairs.  CRAZY!!!
> 
> Americans use to be taught the EVILS of government, but for some time now the government has brainwashed many into thinking government is GOOD.  How can people be so ignorant when history clearly proves otherwise?  The dumbing down of Americans is complete....thanks to leftism.
> 
> This statement use to be known and believed by all Americans:
> *Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
> George Washington *
Click to expand...


You are correct in that since the beginning of time, people have griped about their government

They love their country, but hate their government

Lucky for the United States, we have the best government in the history of mankind


----------



## Bfgrn

gipper said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doubletap said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hear you. Still it's a start for those who believe they have a right to the lives, products or services of others.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man realized thousands of years ago that his power and standard of living increased substantially when he stopped operating as an individual animal but as a member of a society
> A society gave him strength, security, safety, protection and economic power. Part of belonging to a society means that you have to contribute to it. That means you contribute some of your product and services for the good of the group.
> 
> Simple concept that is beyond the grasp of libertarians
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is beyond your grasp is a very simple FACT.  Government, whether by king, queen, dictator, ruler, or elected leader has been the system most humans have suffered under throughout recorded history.  And these forms of "government" have caused more death, destruction, and suffering than any other cause known to man.  More than natural disasters, famines, disease, etc..........
> 
> And yet, sadly...many believe government run by corrupt elites with unlimited power, is good and the appropriate structure for managing (controlling) human affairs.  CRAZY!!!
> 
> Americans use to be taught the EVILS of government, but for some time now the government has brainwashed many into thinking government is GOOD.  How can people be so ignorant when history clearly proves otherwise?  The dumbing down of Americans is complete....thanks to leftism.
> 
> This statement use to be known and believed by all Americans:
> *Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
> George Washington *
Click to expand...


"The equal rights of man, and the happiness of every individual, are now acknowledged to be the only legitimate objects of government. Modern times have the signal advantage, too, of having discovered the only device by which these rights can be secured, to wit: government by the people, acting not in person, but by representatives chosen by themselves, that is to say, by every man of ripe years and sane mind, who contributes either by his purse or person to the support of his country." --Thomas Jefferson to A. Coray, 1823. ME 15:482 

"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government."
Thomas Jefferson to  the Republican Citizens of Washington County, Maryland" (March 31, 1809).

"The legitimate object of Government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done but cannot do at all, or cannot so well do, for themselves in their separate and individual capacities. But in all that people can individually do as well for themselves, Government ought not to interfere."
President Abraham Lincoln


America was 'taught' government is evil starting with Ronald Reagan and his war on unions, the middle class and the poor. He even fabricated a non-existent 'welfare queen' to deride and belittle. He was the most destructive president in our history. Reagan didn't shrink government, he defunded it and shifted the power and wealth to the opulent.

The history of mankind has been a struggle between those who want to increase freedom, opportunity and rights to all people and those who want to restrict them. The people who have always fought to increase freedom, opportunity and rights are liberals. The people who have fought to restrict them are conservatives.

Q: What is conservatism?
A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.

Q: What is wrong with conservatism?
A: Conservatism is incompatible with democracy, prosperity, and civilization in general. It is a destructive system of inequality and prejudice that is founded on deception and has no place in the modern world.


Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. Reagan was an ideological inflection point, ending a 50-year liberal ascendancy and beginning a 30-year conservative ascendancy."
Charles Krauthammer


----------



## bendog

We didn't have a middle class till the progressive movement and TR.

Reagan opposed medicare, and to be honest the life span hasn't increased all that much for the amount of money we spend, and medicare doesn't even pay for nursing homes, but going back to no govt sponsored HC for retirees is unacceptable to America.  So, Reagan didn't push it.  But telling yourself lifestyles for the middle aren't better now than in 1980 is really not accurate.  The top 5%, and esp the top .1%, did the best, but it's not all class warfare by the rich.  It's capitalism.  And, at the heart of it, Reagan was right, nobody deserves crap w/o working for it.


----------



## Lumpy 1




----------



## editec

9/11 inside job said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like it or not Cuba was a sovereign country then as it is now. It isn't surprising that the CIA offered the JFK administration "plausible deniability" for the disaster at the Bay of Pigs but the point is that JFK and his strange brother crafted the plan and authorized the CIA to raise, equip, feed and train an illegal invasion force. What were they thinking? Whatever they were thinking it was an impeachable offense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have been misinformed, amigo.
> 
> The bay of  pigs event was iun the planning and development stage before JFK took office.
> 
> here's a timeline of events leading up to the event
> 
> 
> Bay of Pigs Chronology
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Further proof whitehall troll here is cluless about american history. as any serious reseacher knows,Kennedy inherited the bay of pigs invasion form Eisenhower just like he inherited vietnam from him.
> 
> The bay of pigs invasion was planned under Ikes administration just like you said,the plan they presented to Eisenhower for the invasion was VASTLY different from the one they presented to kennedy.
> 
> The CIA they thought their boy Nixon was going to get elected.He ran covert operations for the CIA as VP under Eisenhower that were so secret,Eisenhower didnt even know about them.The plan they presented to Eisenhower was designed to succeed because they figured Nixon was going to get elected.Thats why the plan they presented to Eisenhower was designed for them to succeed.
> 
> The plan they presented to kennedy was designed to fail from the very beginning.they lied to him from the very beginning telling him they would not need air support when they knew beyond a doubt he WOULD need air support for it succeed.Man whitehall has really been brainwashed his whole life.
Click to expand...



Air support or no the BAY OF PIGS event was a disaster and it would never have been anything else but a disaster.

Fidel knew with absolute certainty when and where the "invasion" was going to happen.

No way in hell that that ragtag group of counter revolutionaries were going to face down the Cuba Army without the US amarines ALSO landing along side of them I_N FORCE._


----------



## NYcarbineer

Judging JFK against the American center of his times, he was far more to the left of center than  the most current/recent Democratic presidents.


----------



## Lumpy 1

NYcarbineer said:


> Judging JFK against the American center of his times, he was far more to the left of center than  the most current/recent Democratic presidents.


----------



## Katzndogz

America did not create a middle class.  The middle class has existed since medieval times.   By the Victorian era some in the middle class were wealthier than impoverished nobility.  What America did was expand the opportunities for more people to become middle class.

The middle class is the middle class because they were neither serf nor noble. They were craftsmen and tradesmen.  That's the middle class.


----------



## Lumpy 1

Katzndogz said:


> America did not create a middle class.  The middle class has existed since medieval times.   By the Victorian era some in the middle class were wealthier than impoverished nobility.  What America did was expand the opportunities for more people to become middle class.
> 
> The middle class is the middle class because they were neither serf nor noble. They were craftsmen and tradesmen.  That's the middle class.



sheesh....I take for granted that members already know this, I guess you don't.


----------



## bendog

That's simply incorrect.  Prior to the industrial revolution, and the progressive age, craftsmen and professionals (such as bankers) did consitute a middle class of sorts ... classes between the aristocracy and/or uber wealthy robber baron types and the very larger working class.

With industrialization and the rise of workers' rights, the working class in America became middle class ... leaving behind a much smaller group of have nots.


----------



## Lumpy 1

Now-a-days under Obama.. The rich get richer, the poor have more members and the middle-class is getting screwed over and diminishing unless they work for government.


----------



## Dante

Lumpy 1 said:


> Now-a-days under Obama.. The rich get richer, the poor have more members and the middle-class is getting screwed over and diminishing unless they work for government.



Isnt revisionist history fun?


----------



## Dante

rightwinger said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad_Cabbie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love the stuff that JFK said, but just how much did he actually contribute to the nation?
> 
> It's a sore spot that can't be addressed ... we can't question his legacy because he was shot.
> 
> Talking about putting a man on the moon was great TV, but HE did it? We would not have done this without him?
> 
> Not meaning this as a troll, just a reality check.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I recall that he brought the country together, it just felt good to have him as President.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When he was alive, we were not as together as many claim. JFK was treated by the right in much the same way that Obama is. Elitist, Commie, Liberal, un American.......CATHOLIC
> 
> After he was shot he became a martyr
Click to expand...


Yup. Reality bites


----------



## Lumpy 1

Dante said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now-a-days under Obama.. The rich get richer, the poor have more members and the middle-class is getting screwed over and diminishing unless they work for government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isnt revisionist history fun?
Click to expand...


I wouldn't know but I'll take your word for it, just this once...


----------



## Lumpy 1

rightwinger said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad_Cabbie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love the stuff that JFK said, but just how much did he actually contribute to the nation?
> 
> It's a sore spot that can't be addressed ... we can't question his legacy because he was shot.
> 
> 
> 
> Talking about putting a man on the moon was great TV, but HE did it? We would not have done this without him?
> 
> Not meaning this as a troll, just a reality check.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I recall that he brought the country together, it just felt good to have him as President.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When he was alive, we were not as together as many claim. JFK was treated by the right in much the same way that Obama is. Elitist, Commie, Liberal, un American.......CATHOLIC
> 
> After he was shot he became a martyr
Click to expand...

 [MENTION=20321]rightwinger[/MENTION] 

You assume Republicans generated this, do you have a link or actual proof?

It could have very well have been generated by southern racist Democrats or the liberals of the time.

Democrats didn't think and react in lock step as they do today.


----------



## Lumpy 1

Kennedy was no liberal Democrat...they hated him..just sayin

----


The 35th president was an ardent tax-cutter who championed across-the-board, top-to-bottom reductions in personal and corporate tax rates, slashed tariffs to promote free trade, and even spoke out against the confiscatory property taxes being levied in too many cities.

He was anything but a big-spending, welfare-state liberal. I do not believe that Washington should do for the people what they can do for themselves through local and private effort, Kennedy bluntly avowed during the 1960 campaign. One of his first acts as president was to institute a pay cut for top White House staffers, and that was only the start of his budgetary austerity. To the surprise of many of his appointees, longtime aide Ted Sorensen would later write, he personally scrutinized every agency request with a cold eye and encouraged his budget director to say no.  

--------------------more

Many on the left felt that way about JFK. When he decided to resume nuclear testing in 1962, Bertrand Russell attacked him as much more wicked than Hitler, and Linus Pauling, who would receive that years Nobel Peace Prize, predicted that he would go down in history as . . . one of the greatest enemies of the human race. Left-wing intellectuals raged against Kennedys failed attempt to topple Fidel Castro (the renowned sociologist C. Wright Mills said the administration had returned us to barbarism). Liberals within the administration expressed dismay for Kennedys unwavering support for tax cuts. Schlesinger called one of Kennedys exhortations the worst speech the president had ever given.


Would JFK, never a liberal, still find a home in the Democratic Party? - Opinion - The Boston Globe


----------



## Lumpy 1

and a little more...

When young, wealthy, and conservative John Fitzgerald Kennedy announced for Congress, many people wondered why, it began. Hardly a liberal even by his own standards, Kennedy is mainly concerned by what appears to him as the coming struggle between collectivism and capitalism. In speech after speech he charges his audience to battle for the old ideas with the same enthusiasm that people have for new ideas. 

Would JFK, never a liberal, still find a home in the Democratic Party? - Opinion - The Boston Globe


----------



## Lumpy 1

What.. No rightwinger and his puppy dog Dante...


----------



## Bfgrn

Lumpy 1 said:


> Kennedy was no liberal Democrat...they hated him..just sayin
> 
> ----
> 
> 
> The 35th president was an ardent tax-cutter who championed across-the-board, top-to-bottom reductions in personal and corporate tax rates, slashed tariffs to promote free trade, and even spoke out against the confiscatory property taxes being levied in too many cities.
> 
> He was anything but a big-spending, welfare-state liberal. I do not believe that Washington should do for the people what they can do for themselves through local and private effort, Kennedy bluntly avowed during the 1960 campaign. One of his first acts as president was to institute a pay cut for top White House staffers, and that was only the start of his budgetary austerity. To the surprise of many of his appointees, longtime aide Ted Sorensen would later write, he personally scrutinized every agency request with a cold eye and encouraged his budget director to say no. 
> 
> --------------------more
> 
> Many on the left felt that way about JFK. When he decided to resume nuclear testing in 1962, Bertrand Russell attacked him as much more wicked than Hitler, and Linus Pauling, who would receive that years Nobel Peace Prize, predicted that he would go down in history as . . . one of the greatest enemies of the human race. Left-wing intellectuals raged against Kennedys failed attempt to topple Fidel Castro (the renowned sociologist C. Wright Mills said the administration had returned us to barbarism). Liberals within the administration expressed dismay for Kennedys unwavering support for tax cuts. Schlesinger called one of Kennedys exhortations the worst speech the president had ever given.
> 
> 
> Would JFK, never a liberal, still find a home in the Democratic Party? - Opinion - The Boston Globe



"If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich"
President John F. Kennedy

"We have all made mistakes. But Dante tells us that divine justice weighs the sins of the cold-blooded and the sins of the warm-hearted on different scales. Better the occasional faults of a party living in the spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a party frozen in the ice of its own indifference"
President John F. Kennedy

"Harry Truman once said, 'There are 14 or 15 million Americans who have the resources to have representatives in Washington to protect their interests, and that the interests of the great mass of the other people - the 150 or 160 million - is the responsibility of the president of the United States, and I propose to fulfill it.'"
President John F. Kennedy


More revisionist bullshit.

JFK was a liberal. If you hated Teddy's politics, you would have hated Jack and Bobby's too. Ted dedicated his public life to carrying out his two brother's unfinished agenda.

The Great Society was based on our slain President's New Frontier. The following were President Kennedy's agenda and proposals:

Civil Rights Bill
Medicare
War on Poverty

And JFK did not believe in trickle down economics.

Here is how it works in the adult world...JFK was not an economist. I don't know of any president who was. They hire people who reflect their agenda and policy plans. JFK hired Keynesian(s), (more than one). That would make Kennedy a Keynesian.

You are so far off base it is hilarious.

I will even go so far to say that Eisenhower's GOP was to the left of today's Democratic Party on a lot of issues.

Here some advice...educate yourself, and come back when you can compete, because you are not in my league.

The New Frontier *WAS* Keynesian Economic policies.

It is no contradiction  the most important single thing we can do to stimulate investment in todays economy is to raise consumption by major reduction of individual income tax rates.  John F. Kennedy, Jan. 21, 1963, annual message to the Congress: The Economic Report Of The President

*Keynesian Economics* 

 JFKs administration adopted fiscal and monetary policies to close the recessionary gap.  Economist John Maynard Keynes was a believer in Monetarism which is the theory that in order to stabilize the economy the government must lower or raise interest rates accordingly.  Keynes also introduced the concept of aggregate demand which showed that full employment could be maintained only with government spending.  JFK fully embraced this idea, he fueled the economy by investing in domestic, military, and space programs. This is also known as Kennedy's New Frontier. He proposed to give federal aid to education, medical care to the elderly, mass transit, as well as regional development in Appalachia which, in turn, would help the impoverished community for decades. President Kennedy signed the Housing Act of June 30th 1961 to aid middle income families as well as mass transportation users while also increasing urban renewal. Unfortunately, congressional support was limited therefore, his plans were downgraded by congress.  JFK was a supporter of organized labor, he helped strengthen their rights with the Trade Expansion Act of 1962. The President also looked to increase minimum wages and signed a bill in 1961 which expanded the minimum wage to $1.25. 

*Congress and Kennedy *

Regrettably many of President Kennedys proposals were shot down by a conservative congress run by Republicans and Conservative Democrats. It is important to keep in mind that JFK won the electoral vote by 83 votes. Congress was more than reluctant to fund Kennedys liberal plans such as the funding of education and Medicare.  President Kennedy was, however, able to sign legislation to raise the minimum wage and increase social security benefits  this was possible in part because of his Vice President L.B. Johnsons extensive relationship with congress .  On June 30th 1961 JFK signed a bill that would extend Social Security to over five million people. 

    "The largest single barrier to full employment of our manpower and resources and to a higher rate of economic growth is the unrealistically heavy drag of federal income taxes on private purchasing power, initiative and incentive." John F. Kennedy, Jan. 24, 1963, special message to Congress on tax reduction and reform
*
Taxes*

Kennedy's tax cut did not go into effect until after his assassination. The theory behind JFK's tax cuts was that when disposable income increases spending increases. This will directly affect aggregate demand. Fiscal expansion raises the demand for products.  Increases in demand will lead to more output without changing the prices. Kennedy also introduced an investment tax credit meaning businesses can reduce their income taxes by 10% of their investment in a year. With increased spending and tax cuts, investments grew boosting aggregate demand. According to Andrew L. Yarrow author of Measuring America: How Economic Growth Came to Define American Greatness in the late 20th Century *"...more evidence that Keynesian ideas, translated into policy, would further increase American growth and prosperity"*. The government also purchased bonds to increase the supply of money while reducing interest rates.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The real death blow to your argument and the ultimate irony is that Republicans OPPOSED Kennedy's tax cuts.

The Golden Age of Republican Deficit Hawks

Several readers wrote in, asking whether Republicans were ever really pro-tax, or if they merely put up with higher taxes in the name of fiscal discipline.

The answer is that once upon a time, Republicans did indeed advocate leaving taxes alone, opposing tax cuts.

In the 1950s and 1960s, federal deficits were relatively small compared to the size of the economy, but even during those flush years, Republican leadership was reluctant to advocate tax cuts. In 1953, for example, Dwight Eisenhower said the country cannot afford to reduce taxes, reduce income, until we have in sight a program of expenditures that shows that the factors of income and of outgo will be balanced.

And when his successor, John F. Kennedy, proposed sharp tax cuts in 1963, the more conservative Republicans in Congress initially opposed them because the cuts would expand the deficit.

The legislation eventually passed (after Kennedys assassination), but over the objections of about a third of the Republicans voting. Heres the House vote, and heres the Senate vote.


The rights misplaced love of JFK tax cuts

 When Kennedy cut taxes, he lowered the top marginal tax from 91% to 65%. Many congressional Republicans opposed his plan at the time, citing concerns that the treasury couldnt afford such a tax break  the Republican Party used to be quite serious about fiscal responsibility, but its been a half-century  but Kennedy proceeded anyway because the higher rates, instituted during World War II, were no longer necessary.

Also at the time, the country had very little debt  Eisenhower, thankfully, kept taxes high throughout the 1950s  almost no deficit. Fiscal conditions, obviously, are far different now.

Keep in mind, unlike contemporary GOP policy, Kennedys plan distributed peace dividends broadly across the wage spectrum. As the Joint Committee on Internal Revenue Taxation explained at the time, the bottom 85% of the population received 59% of the benefits of JFKs tax cut. The top 2.4% received 17.4% of the tax cut, and the top 0.4% received just 6% of it.

Those on the right who see themselves as descendents of the Kennedy policy are either deeply confused or they assume you wont bother to learn the truth.


"Republicans care more about property, Democrats care more about people"
Ted Sorensen - President Kennedy's Special Counsel & Adviser, and primary speechwriter


----------



## Lumpy 1

Bfgrn said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kennedy was no liberal Democrat...they hated him..just sayin
> 
> ----
> 
> 
> The 35th president was an ardent tax-cutter who championed across-the-board, top-to-bottom reductions in personal and corporate tax rates, slashed tariffs to promote free trade, and even spoke out against the &#8220;confiscatory&#8221; property taxes being levied in too many cities.
> 
> He was anything but a big-spending, welfare-state liberal. &#8220;I do not believe that Washington should do for the people what they can do for themselves through local and private effort,&#8221; Kennedy bluntly avowed during the 1960 campaign. One of his first acts as president was to institute a pay cut for top White House staffers, and that was only the start of his budgetary austerity. &#8220;To the surprise of many of his appointees,&#8221; longtime aide Ted Sorensen would later write, he &#8220;personally scrutinized every agency request with a cold eye and encouraged his budget director to say &#8216;no.&#8217; &#8221;
> 
> --------------------more
> 
> Many on the left felt that way about JFK. When he decided to resume nuclear testing in 1962, Bertrand Russell attacked him as &#8220;much more wicked than Hitler,&#8221; and Linus Pauling, who would receive that year&#8217;s Nobel Peace Prize, predicted that he would &#8220;go down in history as . . . one of the greatest enemies of the human race.&#8221; Left-wing intellectuals raged against Kennedy&#8217;s failed attempt to topple Fidel Castro (the renowned sociologist C. Wright Mills said the administration had &#8220;returned us to barbarism&#8221. Liberals within the administration expressed dismay for Kennedy&#8217;s unwavering support for tax cuts. Schlesinger called one of Kennedy&#8217;s exhortations &#8220;the worst speech the president had ever given.&#8221;
> 
> 
> Would JFK, never a liberal, still find a home in the Democratic Party? - Opinion - The Boston Globe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich"
> President John F. Kennedy
> 
> "We have all made mistakes. But Dante tells us that divine justice weighs the sins of the cold-blooded and the sins of the warm-hearted on different scales. Better the occasional faults of a party living in the spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a party frozen in the ice of its own indifference"
> President John F. Kennedy
> 
> "Harry Truman once said, 'There are 14 or 15 million Americans who have the resources to have representatives in Washington to protect their interests, and that the interests of the great mass of the other people - the 150 or 160 million - is the responsibility of the president of the United States, and I propose to fulfill it.'"
> President John F. Kennedy
> 
> 
> More revisionist bullshit.
> 
> JFK was a liberal. If you hated Teddy's politics, you would have hated Jack and Bobby's too. Ted dedicated his public life to carrying out his two brother's unfinished agenda.
> 
> The Great Society was based on our slain President's New Frontier. The following were President Kennedy's agenda and proposals:
> 
> Civil Rights Bill
> Medicare
> War on Poverty
> 
> And JFK did not believe in trickle down economics.
> 
> Here is how it works in the adult world...JFK was not an economist. I don't know of any president who was. They hire people who reflect their agenda and policy plans. JFK hired Keynesian(s), (more than one). That would make Kennedy a Keynesian.
> 
> You are so far off base it is hilarious.
> 
> I will even go so far to say that Eisenhower's GOP was to the left of today's Democratic Party on a lot of issues.
> 
> Here some advice...educate yourself, and come back when you can compete, because you are not in my league.
> 
> The New Frontier *WAS* Keynesian Economic policies.
> 
> &#8220;It is no contradiction &#8211; the most important single thing we can do to stimulate investment in today&#8217;s economy is to raise consumption by major reduction of individual income tax rates.&#8221; &#8211; John F. Kennedy, Jan. 21, 1963, annual message to the Congress: &#8220;The Economic Report Of The President&#8221;
> 
> *Keynesian Economics*
> 
> JFK&#8217;s administration adopted fiscal and monetary policies to close the recessionary gap.  Economist John Maynard Keynes was a believer in Monetarism which is the theory that in order to stabilize the economy the government must lower or raise interest rates accordingly.  Keynes also introduced the concept of aggregate demand which showed that full employment could be maintained only with government spending.  JFK fully embraced this idea, he fueled the economy by investing in domestic, military, and space programs. This is also known as Kennedy's New Frontier. He proposed to give federal aid to education, medical care to the elderly, mass transit, as well as regional development in Appalachia which, in turn, would help the impoverished community for decades. President Kennedy signed the Housing Act of June 30th 1961 to aid middle income families as well as mass transportation users while also increasing urban renewal. Unfortunately, congressional support was limited therefore, his plans were downgraded by congress.  JFK was a supporter of organized labor, he helped strengthen their rights with the Trade Expansion Act of 1962. The President also looked to increase minimum wages and signed a bill in 1961 which expanded the minimum wage to $1.25.
> 
> *Congress and Kennedy *
> 
> Regrettably many of President Kennedy&#8217;s proposals were shot down by a conservative congress run by Republicans and Conservative Democrats. It is important to keep in mind that JFK won the electoral vote by 83 votes. Congress was more than reluctant to fund Kennedy&#8217;s liberal plans such as the funding of education and Medicare.  President Kennedy was, however, able to sign legislation to raise the minimum wage and increase social security benefits &#8211; this was possible in part because of his Vice President L.B. Johnson&#8217;s extensive relationship with congress .  On June 30th 1961 JFK signed a bill that would extend Social Security to over five million people.
> 
> "The largest single barrier to full employment of our manpower and resources and to a higher rate of economic growth is the unrealistically heavy drag of federal income taxes on private purchasing power, initiative and incentive." John F. Kennedy, Jan. 24, 1963, special message to Congress on tax reduction and reform
> *
> Taxes*
> 
> Kennedy's tax cut did not go into effect until after his assassination. The theory behind JFK's tax cuts was that when disposable income increases spending increases. This will directly affect aggregate demand. Fiscal expansion raises the demand for products.  Increases in demand will lead to more output without changing the prices. Kennedy also introduced an investment tax credit meaning businesses can reduce their income taxes by 10% of their investment in a year. With increased spending and tax cuts, investments grew boosting aggregate demand. According to Andrew L. Yarrow author of Measuring America: How Economic Growth Came to Define American Greatness in the late 20th Century *"...more evidence that Keynesian ideas, translated into policy, would further increase American growth and prosperity"*. The government also purchased bonds to increase the supply of money while reducing interest rates.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> The real death blow to your argument and the ultimate irony is that Republicans OPPOSED Kennedy's tax cuts.
> 
> The Golden Age of Republican Deficit Hawks
> 
> Several readers wrote in, asking whether Republicans were ever really pro-tax, or if they merely put up with higher taxes in the name of fiscal discipline.
> 
> The answer is that once upon a time, Republicans did indeed advocate leaving taxes alone, opposing tax cuts.
> 
> In the 1950s and 1960s, federal deficits were relatively small compared to the size of the economy, but even during those flush years, Republican leadership was reluctant to advocate tax cuts. In 1953, for example, Dwight Eisenhower said the country &#8220;cannot afford to reduce taxes, reduce income, until we have in sight a program of expenditures that shows that the factors of income and of outgo will be balanced.&#8221;
> 
> And when his successor, John F. Kennedy, proposed sharp tax cuts in 1963, the more conservative Republicans in Congress initially opposed them because the cuts would expand the deficit.
> 
> The legislation eventually passed (after Kennedy&#8217;s assassination), but over the objections of about a third of the Republicans voting. Here&#8217;s the House vote, and here&#8217;s the Senate vote.
> 
> 
> The right&#8217;s misplaced love of JFK tax cuts
> 
> When Kennedy cut taxes, he lowered the top marginal tax from 91% to 65%. Many congressional Republicans opposed his plan at the time, citing concerns that the treasury couldn&#8217;t afford such a tax break &#8212; the Republican Party used to be quite serious about fiscal responsibility, but it&#8217;s been a half-century &#8212; but Kennedy proceeded anyway because the higher rates, instituted during World War II, were no longer necessary.
> 
> Also at the time, the country had very little debt &#8212; Eisenhower, thankfully, kept taxes high throughout the 1950s &#8212; almost no deficit. Fiscal conditions, obviously, are far different now.
> 
> Keep in mind, unlike contemporary GOP policy, Kennedy&#8217;s plan distributed &#8220;peace dividends&#8221; broadly across the wage spectrum. As the Joint Committee on Internal Revenue Taxation explained at the time, the bottom 85% of the population received 59% of the benefits of JFK&#8217;s tax cut. The top 2.4% received 17.4% of the tax cut, and the top 0.4% received just 6% of it.
> 
> Those on the right who see themselves as descendents of the Kennedy policy are either deeply confused or they assume you won&#8217;t bother to learn the truth.
> 
> 
> "Republicans care more about property, Democrats care more about people"
> Ted Sorensen - President Kennedy's Special Counsel & Adviser, and primary speechwriter
Click to expand...


No doubt Kennedy was a Democrat.. but nothing like the extreme leftists (Obama) we have now-a-days. I was pointing out that he wasn't loved by many of his fellow Democrats. The liberals and the Democrat southern racists as an examples and that they could have very well produced that add that rightwinger presented..

btw keep your quotes shorter, they bore me. I rather see your opinion and links to back it up. Also Kennedy did receive what 100,000 more (suspicious) votes than Nixon.

You may also recall that Kennedy voted against the civil rights bill of 1957 with a rather feeble excuse to justify it.


----------



## Bfgrn

Lumpy 1 said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kennedy was no liberal Democrat...they hated him..just sayin
> 
> ----
> 
> 
> The 35th president was an ardent tax-cutter who championed across-the-board, top-to-bottom reductions in personal and corporate tax rates, slashed tariffs to promote free trade, and even spoke out against the confiscatory property taxes being levied in too many cities.
> 
> He was anything but a big-spending, welfare-state liberal. I do not believe that Washington should do for the people what they can do for themselves through local and private effort, Kennedy bluntly avowed during the 1960 campaign. One of his first acts as president was to institute a pay cut for top White House staffers, and that was only the start of his budgetary austerity. To the surprise of many of his appointees, longtime aide Ted Sorensen would later write, he personally scrutinized every agency request with a cold eye and encouraged his budget director to say no. 
> 
> --------------------more
> 
> Many on the left felt that way about JFK. When he decided to resume nuclear testing in 1962, Bertrand Russell attacked him as much more wicked than Hitler, and Linus Pauling, who would receive that years Nobel Peace Prize, predicted that he would go down in history as . . . one of the greatest enemies of the human race. Left-wing intellectuals raged against Kennedys failed attempt to topple Fidel Castro (the renowned sociologist C. Wright Mills said the administration had returned us to barbarism). Liberals within the administration expressed dismay for Kennedys unwavering support for tax cuts. Schlesinger called one of Kennedys exhortations the worst speech the president had ever given.
> 
> 
> Would JFK, never a liberal, still find a home in the Democratic Party? - Opinion - The Boston Globe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich"
> President John F. Kennedy
> 
> "We have all made mistakes. But Dante tells us that divine justice weighs the sins of the cold-blooded and the sins of the warm-hearted on different scales. Better the occasional faults of a party living in the spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a party frozen in the ice of its own indifference"
> President John F. Kennedy
> 
> "Harry Truman once said, 'There are 14 or 15 million Americans who have the resources to have representatives in Washington to protect their interests, and that the interests of the great mass of the other people - the 150 or 160 million - is the responsibility of the president of the United States, and I propose to fulfill it.'"
> President John F. Kennedy
> 
> 
> More revisionist bullshit.
> 
> JFK was a liberal. If you hated Teddy's politics, you would have hated Jack and Bobby's too. Ted dedicated his public life to carrying out his two brother's unfinished agenda.
> 
> The Great Society was based on our slain President's New Frontier. The following were President Kennedy's agenda and proposals:
> 
> Civil Rights Bill
> Medicare
> War on Poverty
> 
> And JFK did not believe in trickle down economics.
> 
> Here is how it works in the adult world...JFK was not an economist. I don't know of any president who was. They hire people who reflect their agenda and policy plans. JFK hired Keynesian(s), (more than one). That would make Kennedy a Keynesian.
> 
> You are so far off base it is hilarious.
> 
> I will even go so far to say that Eisenhower's GOP was to the left of today's Democratic Party on a lot of issues.
> 
> Here some advice...educate yourself, and come back when you can compete, because you are not in my league.
> 
> The New Frontier *WAS* Keynesian Economic policies.
> 
> It is no contradiction  the most important single thing we can do to stimulate investment in todays economy is to raise consumption by major reduction of individual income tax rates.  John F. Kennedy, Jan. 21, 1963, annual message to the Congress: The Economic Report Of The President
> 
> *Keynesian Economics*
> 
> JFKs administration adopted fiscal and monetary policies to close the recessionary gap.  Economist John Maynard Keynes was a believer in Monetarism which is the theory that in order to stabilize the economy the government must lower or raise interest rates accordingly.  Keynes also introduced the concept of aggregate demand which showed that full employment could be maintained only with government spending.  JFK fully embraced this idea, he fueled the economy by investing in domestic, military, and space programs. This is also known as Kennedy's New Frontier. He proposed to give federal aid to education, medical care to the elderly, mass transit, as well as regional development in Appalachia which, in turn, would help the impoverished community for decades. President Kennedy signed the Housing Act of June 30th 1961 to aid middle income families as well as mass transportation users while also increasing urban renewal. Unfortunately, congressional support was limited therefore, his plans were downgraded by congress.  JFK was a supporter of organized labor, he helped strengthen their rights with the Trade Expansion Act of 1962. The President also looked to increase minimum wages and signed a bill in 1961 which expanded the minimum wage to $1.25.
> 
> *Congress and Kennedy *
> 
> Regrettably many of President Kennedys proposals were shot down by a conservative congress run by Republicans and Conservative Democrats. It is important to keep in mind that JFK won the electoral vote by 83 votes. Congress was more than reluctant to fund Kennedys liberal plans such as the funding of education and Medicare.  President Kennedy was, however, able to sign legislation to raise the minimum wage and increase social security benefits  this was possible in part because of his Vice President L.B. Johnsons extensive relationship with congress .  On June 30th 1961 JFK signed a bill that would extend Social Security to over five million people.
> 
> "The largest single barrier to full employment of our manpower and resources and to a higher rate of economic growth is the unrealistically heavy drag of federal income taxes on private purchasing power, initiative and incentive." John F. Kennedy, Jan. 24, 1963, special message to Congress on tax reduction and reform
> *
> Taxes*
> 
> Kennedy's tax cut did not go into effect until after his assassination. The theory behind JFK's tax cuts was that when disposable income increases spending increases. This will directly affect aggregate demand. Fiscal expansion raises the demand for products.  Increases in demand will lead to more output without changing the prices. Kennedy also introduced an investment tax credit meaning businesses can reduce their income taxes by 10% of their investment in a year. With increased spending and tax cuts, investments grew boosting aggregate demand. According to Andrew L. Yarrow author of Measuring America: How Economic Growth Came to Define American Greatness in the late 20th Century *"...more evidence that Keynesian ideas, translated into policy, would further increase American growth and prosperity"*. The government also purchased bonds to increase the supply of money while reducing interest rates.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> The real death blow to your argument and the ultimate irony is that Republicans OPPOSED Kennedy's tax cuts.
> 
> The Golden Age of Republican Deficit Hawks
> 
> Several readers wrote in, asking whether Republicans were ever really pro-tax, or if they merely put up with higher taxes in the name of fiscal discipline.
> 
> The answer is that once upon a time, Republicans did indeed advocate leaving taxes alone, opposing tax cuts.
> 
> In the 1950s and 1960s, federal deficits were relatively small compared to the size of the economy, but even during those flush years, Republican leadership was reluctant to advocate tax cuts. In 1953, for example, Dwight Eisenhower said the country cannot afford to reduce taxes, reduce income, until we have in sight a program of expenditures that shows that the factors of income and of outgo will be balanced.
> 
> And when his successor, John F. Kennedy, proposed sharp tax cuts in 1963, the more conservative Republicans in Congress initially opposed them because the cuts would expand the deficit.
> 
> The legislation eventually passed (after Kennedys assassination), but over the objections of about a third of the Republicans voting. Heres the House vote, and heres the Senate vote.
> 
> 
> The rights misplaced love of JFK tax cuts
> 
> When Kennedy cut taxes, he lowered the top marginal tax from 91% to 65%. Many congressional Republicans opposed his plan at the time, citing concerns that the treasury couldnt afford such a tax break  the Republican Party used to be quite serious about fiscal responsibility, but its been a half-century  but Kennedy proceeded anyway because the higher rates, instituted during World War II, were no longer necessary.
> 
> Also at the time, the country had very little debt  Eisenhower, thankfully, kept taxes high throughout the 1950s  almost no deficit. Fiscal conditions, obviously, are far different now.
> 
> Keep in mind, unlike contemporary GOP policy, Kennedys plan distributed peace dividends broadly across the wage spectrum. As the Joint Committee on Internal Revenue Taxation explained at the time, the bottom 85% of the population received 59% of the benefits of JFKs tax cut. The top 2.4% received 17.4% of the tax cut, and the top 0.4% received just 6% of it.
> 
> Those on the right who see themselves as descendents of the Kennedy policy are either deeply confused or they assume you wont bother to learn the truth.
> 
> 
> "Republicans care more about property, Democrats care more about people"
> Ted Sorensen - President Kennedy's Special Counsel & Adviser, and primary speechwriter
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No doubt Kennedy was a Democrat.. but nothing like the extreme leftists we have now-a-days. I was pointing out that he wasn't loved by many of his fellow Democrats. The liberals and the Democrat southern racists as an examples and that they could have very well produced that add that rightwinger presented..
> 
> btw keep your quotes shorter, they bore me. I rather see your opinion and links to back it up. Also Kennedy did received what 100,000 more (suspicious) votes than Nixon.
Click to expand...


I will even go so far to say that Eisenhower's GOP was to the left of today's Democratic Party on a lot of issues.

Here some advice...educate yourself, and come back when you can compete, because you are not in my league.

HERE is what the Republican Party USED to stand for...

"Labor is the United States. The men and women, who with their minds, their hearts and hands, create the wealth that is shared in this countrythey are America." 
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower













Excerpt from:
Republican Party Platform of 1956
August 20, 1956


Our Government was created by the people for all the people, and it must serve no less a purpose.

The Republican Party was formed 100 years ago to preserve the Nation's devotion to these ideals.

On its Centennial, the Republican Party again calls to the minds of all Americans the great truth first spoken by Abraham Lincoln: "The legitimate object of Government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done but cannot do at all, or cannot so well do, for themselves in their separate and individual capacities. But in all that people can individually do as well for themselves, Government ought not to interfere."

Our great President Dwight D. Eisenhower has counseled us further: "In all those things which deal with people, be liberal, be human. In all those things which deal with people's money, or their economy, or their form of government, be conservative.

"We shall ever build anew, that our children and their children, without distinction because of race, creed or color, may know the blessings of our free land.

We are proud of and shall continue our far-reaching and sound advances in matters of basic human needs-expansion of social security-broadened coverage in unemployment insurance - improved housing- and better health protection for all our people. We are determined that our government remain warmly responsive to the urgent social and economic problems of our people.

*Labor*
"Under the Republican Administration, as our country has prospered, so have its people. This is as it should be, for as President Eisenhower said: "Labor is the United States. The men and women, who with their minds, their hearts and hands, create the wealth that is shared in this country...they are America."

The Eisenhower Administration has brought to our people the highest employment, the highest wages and the highest standard of living ever enjoyed by any nation. Today there are nearly 67 million men and women at work in the United States, 4 million more than in 1952. Wages have increased substantially over the past 3 1/2 years; but, more important, the American wage earner today can buy more than ever before for himself and his family because his pay check has not been eaten away by rising taxes and soaring prices.

The record of performance of the Republican Administration on behalf of our working men and women goes still further. The Federal minimum wage has been raised for more than 2 million workers. Social Security has been extended to an additional 10 million workers and the benefits raised for 6 1/2 million. The protection of unemployment insurance has been brought to 4 million additional workers. There have been increased workmen's compensation benefits for longshoremen and harbor workers, increased retirement benefits for railroad employees, and wage increases and improved welfare and pension plans for federal employees.

In addition, the Eisenhower Administration has enforced more vigorously and effectively than ever before, the laws which protect the working standards of our people.

Workers have benefited by the progress which has been made in carrying out the programs and principles set forth in the 1952 Republican platform. All workers have gained and unions have grown in strength and responsibility, and have increased their membership by 2 millions.

Furthermore, the process of free collective bargaining has been strengthened by the insistence of this Administration that labor and management settle their differences at the bargaining table without the intervention of the Government. This policy has brought to our country an unprecedented period of labor-management peace and understanding...

Republican action created the Department of Health, Education and Welfare as the first new Federal department in 40 years, to raise the continuing consideration of these problems for the first time to the highest council of Government, the President's Cabinet.... We have supported the distribution of free vaccine to protect millions of children against dreaded polio.

Republican leadership has enlarged Federal assistance for construction of hospitals, emphasizing low-cost care of chronic diseases and the special problems of older persons, and increased Federal aid for medical care of the needy.

We have asked the largest increase in research funds ever sought in one year to intensify attacks on cancer, mental illness, heart disease and other dread diseases."

*http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=25838*


Equality, rightly understood as our founding fathers understood it, leads to liberty and to the emancipation of creative differences; wrongly understood, as it has been so tragically in our time, it leads first to conformity and then to despotism.
*Barry Goldwater (R)  Late Senator & Father of the Conservative movement*[/QUOTE]


----------



## Lumpy 1

I don't compete, I exchange views..., you're posting boring articles, nonsensical insults and you're purposely missing the point..

I could post article after article and waste your time also.

Say what YOU have to say..

btw.. read this link and give me your opinion...http://www.westernjournalism.com/ob...is-lying-lawbreaking-corruption-cronyism-etc/


----------



## gipper

Lumpy 1 said:


> I don't compete, I exchange views..., you're posting boring articles, nonsensical insults and you're purposely missing the point..
> 
> I could post article after article and waste your time also.
> 
> Say what YOU have to say..
> 
> btw.. read this link and give me your opinion...Obama supporters will go hysterical over this well sourced list of 252 examples of his lying, lawbreaking, corruption, cronyism, etc.



We know that presidents lie.  This has been going on a long time.  However, Obama is a serial liar and most deceptively.  I believe this is due to a couple things.  
- The MSM is in his back pocket and along with his arrogance, he spews lies without consequence.  
- The Rs are weak minded and too afraid to confront him.
- Sadly many Americans do not care if he lies.  They support him unconditionally.  

Bush was a liar too, but the MSM and the Ds were all over him and thus limited his actions, at least somewhat.  Obama is uncontrolled.  The most powerful man in the world has unlimited power....not likely to end well.


----------



## Bfgrn

Lumpy 1 said:


> I don't compete, I exchange views..., you're posting boring articles, nonsensical insults and you're purposely missing the point..
> 
> I could post article after article and waste your time also.
> 
> Say what YOU have to say..
> 
> btw.. read this link and give me your opinion...Obama supporters will go hysterical over this well sourced list of 252 examples of his lying, lawbreaking, corruption, cronyism, etc.



I never gave anybody hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell. 
Harry S. Truman


You're right. You don't compete. The truth is 'boring' when you have been proven wrong. Here is some more 'boring' stuff.

Tell you what Lumpy, read through JFK's agenda and bring back all the 'conservative' stuff...

A big part of LBJ's Great Society was started by President Kennedy and the New Frontier.

Who was John F. Kennedy? The President who proposed and or planned the following:

Medicare
Civil Rights
The War on Poverty
*
Economy*

The addition of a temporary thirteen-week supplement to jobless benefits,

The extension of aid to the children of unemployed workers,

The redevelopment of distressed areas,

An increase in Social Security payments and the encouragement of earlier retirement,

An increase in the minimum wage and an extension in coverage,

The provision of emergency relief to feed grain farmers, and

The financing of a comprehensive homebuilding and slum clearance program.

*Labor*

Amendments to the Fair Labor Standards Act in 1961 greatly expanded the FLSA's scope in the retail trade sector and increased the minimum wage 

An Executive Order was issued (1962) which provided federal employees with collective bargaining rights.

The Federal Salary Reform Act (1962) established the principle of &#8220;maintaining federal white-collar wages at a level with those paid to employees performing similar jobs in private enterprises."

A Postal Service and Federal Employees Salary Act was passed (1962) to reform Federal white-collar statutory salary systems, adjust postal rates, and establish a standard for adjusting annuities under the Civil Service Retirement Act.

The Contract Work Hours and Safety Standards Act (1962) established &#8220;standards for hours, overtime compensation, and safety for employees working on federal and federally funded contracts and subcontracts&#8221;.

A pilot program was launched to train and place youths in jobs.

Paid overtime was granted to workers on government financed construction jobs for work in excess of 40 hours.

*Education*

Scholarships and student loans were broadened under existing laws by Kennedy, and new means of specialized aid to education were invented or expanded by the president, including an increase in funds for libraries and school lunches, the provision of funds to teach the deaf, the handicapped, the retarded, and the exceptional child, the authorization of literacy training under Manpower Development, the allocation of President funds to stop dropouts, a quadrupling of vocational education, and working together with schools on delinquency. Altogether, these measures attacked serious educational problems and freed up local funds for use on general construction and salaries.

Various measures were introduced which aided educational television, college dormitories, medical education, and community libraries.

The Educational Television Facilities Act (1962) provided federal grants for new station construction, enabling in-class-room instructional television to operate in thousands of elementary schools, offering primarily religious instruction, music, and arts.

The Health Professions Educational Assistance Act (1963) provided $175 million over a three-year period for matching grants for the construction of facilities for teaching physicians, dentists, nurses, podiatrists, optometrists, pharmacists, and other health professionals. The Act also created a loan program of up to $2000 per annum for students of optometry, dentistry, and medicine.

The Vocational Education Act (1963) significantly increased enrollment in vocational education.

A law was enacted (1961) to encourage and facilitate the training of teachers of the deaf.

The Fulbright-Hays Act of 1961 enlarged the scope of the Fulbright program while extending it geographically.

An estimated one-third of all major New Frontier programs made some form of education a vital element, and the Office of Education called it &#8220;the most significant legislative period in its hundred-year history&#8221;.

*Welfare*

Unemployment and welfare benefits were expanded.

In 1961, Social Security benefits were increased by 20% and provision for early retirement was introduced, enabling workers to retire at the age of sixty-two while receiving partial benefits.

The Social Security Amendments of 1961 permitted male workers to elect early retirement age 62, increased minimum benefits, liberalized the benefit payments to aged widow, widower, or surviving dependent parent, and also liberalized eligibility requirements and the retirement test.

The 1962 amendments to the Social Security Act authorized the federal government to reimburse states for the provision of social services.

The School Lunch Act was amended for authority to begin providing free meals in poverty-stricken areas.

A pilot food stamp program was launched (1961), covering six areas in the United States. In 1962, the program was extended to eighteen areas, feeding 240,000 people.

The Self-Employed Individuals Tax Retirement Act of 1962 provided self-employed people with a tax postponement for income set aside in qualified pension plans.

Various school lunch and school milk programs were extended, &#8220;enabling 700,000 more children to enjoy a hot school lunch and eighty-five thousand more schools, child care centers, and camps to receive fresh milk&#8221;.

ADC was extended to whole families (1961).

Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) replaced the Aid to Dependent Children (ADC) program, as coverage was extended to adults caring for dependent children.

A major revision of the public welfare laws was carried out, with a $300 million modernization which emphasized rehabilitation instead of relief&#8221;.

A temporary antirecession supplement to unemployment compensation was introduced.

Food distribution to needy Americans was increased. In January 1961, the first executive order issued by Kennedy mandated that the Department of Agriculture increase the quantity and variety of foods donated for needy households. This executive order represented a shift in the Commodity Distribution Programs&#8217; primary purpose, from surplus disposal to that of providing nutritious foods to low-income households.

Social Security benefits were extended to an additional five million Americans.

The Self-Employed Individuals Tax Retirement Act (1962) provided self-employed people with a tax postponement for income set aside in qualified pension plans.

The Public Welfare Amendments of 1962 provided for greater Federal sharing in the cost of rehabilitative services to applicants, recipients, and persons likely to become applicants for public assistance. It increased the Federal share in the cost of public assistance payments, and permitted the States to combine the various categories into one category. The amendments also made permanent the 1961 amendment which extended aid to dependent children to cover children removed from unsuitable homes.

Federal funds were made available for the payment of foster care costs for AFDC-eligible children who had come into state custody.

An act was approved (1963) which extended for one year the period during which responsibility for the placement and foster care of dependent children, under the program of aid to families with dependent children under Title IV of the Social Security Act.

Federal civil service retirement benefits were index-linked to changes in the Consumer Price Index (1962).

*Civil rights*

Various measures were carried out by the Kennedy Justice Department to enforce court orders and existing legislation. The Kennedy Administration promoted a Voter Education Project which led to 688,800 between the 1st of April 1962 and the 1st of November 1964, while the Civil Rights Division brought over forty-two suits in four states in order to secure voting rights for blacks. In addition, Kennedy supported the anti-poll tax amendment, which cleared Congress in September 1962 (although it was not ratified until 1964 as the Twenty-fourth Amendment). As noted by one student of black voting in the South, in relation to the attempts by the Kennedy Administration to promote civil rights, &#8220;Whereas the Eisenhower lawyers had moved deliberately, the Kennedy-Johnson attorneys pushed the judiciary far more earnestly.&#8221;

Executive Order 10925 (issued in 1961) combined the federal employment and government contractor agencies into a unified Committee on Equal Employment opportunity (CEEO). This new committee helped to put an end to segregation and discriminatory employment practices (such as only employing African-Americans for low-skilled jobs) in a number of workplaces across the United States.

Discrimination in public housing was prohibited.

The Interstate Commerce Commission made Jim Crow illegal in interstate transportation, having been put under pressure to do so by both the Freedom Riders and the Department of Justice.

Employment of African-Americans in federal jobs such as in the Post office, the Navy, and the Veterans Administration as a result of the Kennedy Administration&#8217;s affirmative action policies).

The Kennedy Administration forbade government contractors from discriminating against any applicant or employee for employment on the grounds of national origin, color, creed, or race.

The Plan for Progress was launched by the CEEO to persuade large employers to adopt equal opportunity practices. 268 firms with 8 million employees had signed on to this by 1964, while a nationwide study covering the period from May 1961 to June 1963 of 103 corporations &#8220;showed a Negro gain from 28,940 to 42,738 salaried and from 171,021 to 198,161 hourly paid jobs&#8221;.

*Housing*

The most comprehensive housing and urban renewal program in American history up until that point was carried out, including the first major provisions for middle-income housing, protection of urban open spaces, public mass transit, and private low-income housing.

Omnibus Housing Bill 1961. In March 1961 Kennedy sent Congress a special message, proposing an ambitious and complex housing program to spur the economy, revitalize cities, and provide affordable housing for middle- and low-income families. The bill proposed spending $3.19 billion and placed major emphasis on improving the existing housing supply, instead of on new housing starts, and creating a cabinet-level Department of Housing and Urban Affairs to oversee the programs. The bill also promised to make the Federal Housing Administration a full partner in urban renewal program by authorizing mortgage loans to finance rehabilitation of homes and urban renewal Committee on housing combined programs for housing, mass transportation, and open space land bills into a single bill.

Urban renewal grants were increased from $2 to $4 million, while an additional 100,000 units of public housing were constructed.

Opportunities were provided for coordinated planning of community development: technical assistance to state and local governments.

Under the Kennedy Administration, there was a change of focus from a wrecker ball approach to small rehabilitation projects in order to preserve existing &#8216;urban textures&#8217;.

Funds for housing for the elderly were increased.

Title V of the Housing Act was amended (1961) to make nonfarm rural residents eligible for direct housing loans from the Farmers Home Administration. These changes extended the housing program to towns with a population of up to 2,500.

The Senior Citizens Housing Act (1962) established loans for low-rent apartment projects which were &#8220;designed to meet the needs of people age 62 and over&#8221;.

*Unemployment*

To help the unemployed, Kennedy broadened the distribution of surplus food, created a &#8220;pilot&#8221; Food Stamp program for poor Americans, directed that preference be given to distressed areas in defense contracts, and expanded the services of U.S. Employment Offices.

Social security benefits were extended to each child whose father was unemployed.

The first accelerated public works program for areas of unemployment since the New Deal was launched.

The first full-scale modernization and expansion of the vocational education laws since 1946 were carried out.

Federal grants were provided to the states enabling them to extend the period covered by unemployment benefit.

The Manpower Development and Training Act of 1962 authorized a three-year program aimed at retraining workers displaced by new technology. The bill did not exclude employed workers from benefiting and it authorized a training allowance for unemployed participants. Even though 200,000 people were recruited, there was minimal impact, comparatively. The Area Redevelopment Act, a $394 million spending package passed in 1961, followed a strategy of investing in the private sector to stimulate new job creation. It specifically targeted businesses in urban and rural depressed areas and authorized $4.5 million annually over four years for vocational training programs.

The 1963 amendments to the National Defense Education Act included $731 million in appropriations to states and localities maintaining vocational training programs.

*Health*

In 1963 Kennedy, who had a mentally ill sister named Rosemary, submitted the nation's first Presidential special message to Congress on mental health issues. Congress quickly passed the Mental Retardation Facilities and Community Mental Health Centers Construction Act (P.L. 88-164), beginning a new era in Federal support for mental health services. The National Institute of Mental Health assumed responsibility for monitoring community mental health centers programs. This measure was a great success as there was a sixfold increase in people using Mental Health facilities.

A Medical Health Bill for the Aged (later known as Medicare) was proposed, but Congress failed to enact it.

The Community Health Services and Facilities Act (1961) increased the amount of funds available for nursing home construction and extended the research and demonstration grant program to other medical facilities.

The Health Services for Agricultural Migratory Workers Act (1962) established &#8220;a program of federal grants for family clinics and other health services for migrant workers and their families&#8221;.

The first major amendments to the food and drug safety laws since 1938 were carried out. The Drug Amendments of 1962 amended the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act (1938) by strengthening the provisions related to the regulation of therapeutic drugs. The Act required evidence that new drugs proposed for marketing were both safe and effective, and required improved manufacturing processes and procedures.

The responsibilities of the Food and Drug Administration were significantly enlarged by the Kefauver-Harris Drug Amendments (1962).

The Vaccination Assistance Act (1962) provided for the vaccination of millions of children against a number of diseases.

The Social Security Act Amendments of 1963 improved medical services for crippled children and established a new project grant program to improve prenatal care for women from low income families with very high risks of mental retardation and other birth defects. Authorizations for grants to the states under the Maternal and Child Health and Crippled Children's programs were also increased and a research grant program was added.

The Mental Retardation Facilities Construction Act of 1963 authorized federal support for the construction of university-affiliated training facilities, mental retardation research centers, and community service facilities for adults and children with mental retardation.

*Equal rights for women*

The President&#8217;s Commission on the Status of Women was an advisory commission established on December 14, 1961, by Kennedy to investigate questions regarding women's equality in education, in the workplace, and under the law. The commission, chaired by Eleanor Roosevelt until her death in 1962, was composed of 26 members including legislators and philanthropists who were active in women's rights issues. The main purpose of the committee was to document and examine employment policies in place for women. The commission's final report, American Woman (also known as the Peterson Report after the Commission's second chair, Esther Peterson), was issued in October 1963 and documented widespread discrimination against women in the workplace. Among the practices addressed by the group were labor laws pertaining to hours and wages, the quality of legal representation for women, the lack of education and counseling for working women, and federal insurance and tax laws that affected women's incomes. Recommendations included affordable child care for all income levels, hiring practices that promoted equal opportunity for women, and paid maternity leave.

In early 1960s, full-time working women were paid on average 59 percent of the earnings of their male counterparts. In order to eliminate some forms of sex-based pay discrimination, Kennedy signed the Equal Pay Act into law on June 10, 1963. During the law's first ten years, 171,000 employees received back pay totaling about 84 million dollars.

*Environment*

The Clean Air Act (1963) expanded the powers of the federal government in preventing and controlling air pollution.

The first major additions to the National Park System since 1946 were made, which included the preservation of wilderness areas and a fund for future acquisitions.

The water pollution prevention program was doubled.

More aid was provided to localities to combat water pollution.

The Rivers and Harbors Act of 1962 reiterated and expanded upon &#8220;previous authorizations for outdoor recreation.&#8221;

*Crime*

Under Kennedy, the first significant package of anti crime bills since 1934 were passed. Amongst the Kennedy Administration's anti crime measures included the Juvenile Delinquency and Youth Offenses Control Act, which was signed into law on September 22, 1961. This program aimed to prevent youth from committing delinquent acts. In 1963, 288 mobsters were brought to trial by a team that was headed by Kennedy's brother, Robert.

source

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan


----------



## Bfgrn

JFK was a liberal. If you hated Teddy's politics, you would have hated Jack and Bobby's too. Ted dedicated his public life to carrying out his two brother's unfinished agenda.

The Great Society was based on our slain President's New Frontier. The following were President Kennedy's agenda and proposals:

Civil Rights Bill
Medicare
War on Poverty

And JFK did not believe in trickle down economics.

JFK, the demand-side tax cutter

"The Revenue Act of 1964 was aimed at the demand, rather than the supply, side of the economy," said Arthur Okun, one of Kennedy's economic advisers.

This distinction, taught in Economics 101, seldom makes it into the Washington sound-bite wars. A demand-side cut rests on the Keynesian theory that public consumption spurs economic activity. Government puts money in people's hands, as a temporary measure, so that they'll spend it. A supply-side cut sees business investment as the key to growth. Government gives money to businesses and wealthy individuals to invest, ultimately benefiting all Americans. Back in the early 1960s, tax cutting was as contentious as it is today, but it was liberal demand-siders who were calling for the cuts and generating the controversy.

When Kennedy ran for president in 1960 amid a sluggish economy, he vowed to "get the country moving again." After his election, his advisers, led by chief economist Walter Heller, urged a classically Keynesian solution: running a deficit to stimulate growth. (The $10 billion deficit Heller recommended, bold at the time, seems laughably small by today's standards.) In Keynesian theory, a tax cut aimed at consumers would have a "multiplier" effect, since each dollar that a taxpayer spent would go to another taxpayer, who would in effect spend it againmeaning the deficit would be short-lived.

At first Kennedy balked at Heller's Keynesianism. He even proposed a balanced budget in his first State of the Union address. But Heller and his team won over the president. By mid-1962 Kennedy had seen the Keynesian light, and in January 1963 he declared that "the enactment this year of tax reduction and tax reform overshadows all other domestic issues in this Congress."

The plan Kennedy's team drafted had many elements, including the closing of loopholes (the "tax reform" Kennedy spoke of).Ultimately, in the form that Lyndon Johnson signed into law, it reduced tax withholding rates, initiated a new standard deduction, and boosted the top deduction for child care expenses, among other provisions. It did lower the top tax bracket significantly, although from a vastly higher starting point than anything we've seen in recent years: 91 percent on marginal income greater than $400,000. And he cut it only to 70 percent, hardly the mark of a future Club for Growth member.


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## Lumpy 1

.. I doubt you're even reading it..


Have fun with your little temper tantrum..


----------



## Bfgrn

Lumpy 1 said:


> .. I doubt you're even reading it..
> 
> 
> Have fun with your little temper tantrum..



I did read it. Some of it is true, most of it is either right wing spin or lies.

As a liberal, I am not real happy with Obama. But he was the *ONLY* option. You folks on the right just don't get it. The GOP is *NOT* an option anymore. The party has moved so far to the right that people are scared off.

Unfortunately most of you folks on the right TRULY believe the GOP hasn't moved far ENOUGH to the right.

How will you greet 8 years of President Hillary Clinton?

"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the Republican party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."
Barry Goldwater (R)  Late Senator & Father of the Conservative movement


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## Lumpy 1

Bfgrn said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .. I doubt you're even reading it..
> 
> 
> Have fun with your little temper tantrum..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did read it. Some of it is true, most of it is either right wing spin or lies.
> 
> As a liberal, I am not real happy with Obama. But he was the *ONLY* option. You folks on the right just don't get it. The GOP is *NOT* an option anymore. The party has moved so far to the right that people are scared off.
> 
> Unfortunately most of you folks on the right TRULY believe the GOP hasn't moved far ENOUGH to the right.
> 
> How will you greet 8 years of President Hillary Clinton?
> 
> "Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the Republican party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."
> Barry Goldwater (R)  Late Senator & Father of the Conservative movement
Click to expand...


It's not about me..it's about what our generation is leaving to our children..


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## gipper

Bfgrn said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .. I doubt you're even reading it..
> 
> 
> Have fun with your little temper tantrum..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did read it. Some of it is true, most of it is either right wing spin or lies.
> 
> As a liberal, I am not real happy with Obama. But he was the *ONLY* option. You folks on the right just don't get it. The GOP is *NOT* an option anymore. The party has moved so far to the right that people are scared off.
> 
> Unfortunately most of you folks on the right TRULY believe the GOP hasn't moved far ENOUGH to the right.
> 
> How will you greet 8 years of President Hillary Clinton?
> 
> "Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the Republican party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."
> Barry Goldwater (R)  Late Senator & Father of the Conservative movement
Click to expand...

 
This post is nothing but left wing propaganda.  It is really sad that you have been completely duped by the MSM.  

If the R party is so extremist, why did they nominate moderates/progressives since Reagan?  

To think stinking progressives like Bush1, Dole, Bush2, McCain, and Romney are right wingers, is not to think...or in your case brainwashed.

There is little difference between the two parties.  Both are progressive, but one leans socialist with a sprinkle of communism.  

A moderate R looks extremist to your kind.


----------



## Bfgrn

gipper said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .. I doubt you're even reading it..
> 
> 
> Have fun with your little temper tantrum..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did read it. Some of it is true, most of it is either right wing spin or lies.
> 
> As a liberal, I am not real happy with Obama. But he was the *ONLY* option. You folks on the right just don't get it. The GOP is *NOT* an option anymore. The party has moved so far to the right that people are scared off.
> 
> Unfortunately most of you folks on the right TRULY believe the GOP hasn't moved far ENOUGH to the right.
> 
> How will you greet 8 years of President Hillary Clinton?
> 
> "Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the Republican party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."
> Barry Goldwater (R)  Late Senator & Father of the Conservative movement
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This post is nothing but left wing propaganda.  It is really sad that you have been completely duped by the MSM.
> 
> If the R party is so extremist, why did they nominate moderates/progressives since Reagan?
> 
> To think stinking progressives like Bush1, Dole, Bush2, McCain, and Romney are right wingers, is not to think...or in your case brainwashed.
> 
> There is little difference between the two parties.  Both are progressive, but one leans socialist with a sprinkle of communism.
> 
> A moderate R looks extremist to your kind.
Click to expand...


Thank you for proving my point, even parroting faux news MSM bullshit. We have a CORPORATE media.

There is no sin except stupidity.
Oscar Wilde


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## Bfgrn

Banana Republicans 2013

By contrast, voters witnessed a portrait of a Republican fiasco led by Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) that threatens another government shutdown, which is deplored by 80 percent of Americans in a new New York Times/CBS poll.

Republicans lack any credible or coherent national leader. They are dominated by extreme factions pursuing banana republic tactics. They threaten a government shutdown and U.S. default that could trigger a new financial crash.

There is a cancer on the Republican Party. It metastasizes in ways that hurt the nation and violate core values of the party of Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt and Ronald Reagan.

I call those who cause this cancer the Banana Republicans. GOP leaders who know better  but who tolerate this cancer  are derelict in their duty to their party and our country.

The Banana Republicans who dominate the GOP do not respect the integrity and credibility of democratic institutions such as Congress. They disrespect the legitimacy of political opponents and disparage large numbers of Americans who oppose their views and fear their tactics. They contemptuously disrespect the legitimacy of Democratic presidents, even those elected by large majorities of voters.

Banana Republicans attack good-faith compromise, honorable negotiation and functional government  THEY are the Washington dysfunction that Americans deplore.

Reagan, the conservative icon who deeply believed in governance and negotiation, would be outraged by Banana Republicans today.

Repeated threats by Banana Republicans to shut down the U.S. government if their extremism does not prevail are reminiscent of tactics by banana republic politicians from other continents in previous centuries, who like Banana Republicans today held in contempt the democratic values of free nations made up of diverse citizens.

Banana Republicanism began in the 1990s with rightist Republican invectives against Bill and Hillary Clinton, culminating in their hyperpartisan efforts to impeach President Clinton, which constituted an attempted banana republic-like coup détat.

Banana Republicans would destroy the U.S. Senate as an institution of government through filibuster abuse.

Banana Republicans do not merely call for changing ObamaCare; they aggressively try to obstruct and destroy the faithful execution of a law of the land that was duly passed by Congress and signed by the president  a radical extreme opposed by most Americans.

Banana Republicans oppose jobs programs with fervent partisan fanaticism, launch ugly attacks against providing food for hungry children over the objection of spiritual and religious leaders, assault collective bargaining that Republicans have traditionally supported, attack pensions for fire fighters and teachers and police while championing lucrative pensions for themselves, believe corporations are people but citizens should not have a protected right to vote, and argue that wealthy factions should have the power to buy elections.

more


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## Lumpy 1

Democrats, so thrilled that Obama and Harry didn't do their jobs in the first place..

Democrats blamed Bush for everything, even stubbed toes I suppose.

For Obama they look for excuses and placing blame on anyone else but..funny how that works..


----------



## rightwinger

Lumpy 1 said:


> Democrats, so thrilled that Obama and Harry didn't do their jobs in the first place..
> 
> Democrats blamed Bush for everything, even stubbed toes I suppose.
> 
> For Obama they look for excuses and placing blame on anyone else but..funny how that works..



Hey America.......I just took over as president, The Dow Jones has dropped 7000 points, we are losing 750,000 jobs a month, the auto companies and banks are on the verge of default and we are engaged in two overseas wars

Guess its my fault


----------



## Lumpy 1

rightwinger said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Democrats, so thrilled that Obama and Harry didn't do their jobs in the first place..
> 
> Democrats blamed Bush for everything, even stubbed toes I suppose.
> 
> For Obama they look for excuses and placing blame on anyone else but..funny how that works..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey America.......I just took over as president, The Dow Jones has dropped 7000 points, we are losing 750,000 jobs a month, the auto companies and banks are on the verge of default and we are engaged in two overseas wars
> 
> Guess its my fault
Click to expand...


I"d ask what Harry and Pelosi were doing for the past 2 years unless of course I was chickenshit and looking for excuses. Also considering that things were going just fine until they showed up..

But that's just me...


----------



## AquaAthena

Lumpy 1 said:


> Where have They All Gone..?
> 
> My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> The best road to progress is freedom's road.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> 
> John F. Kennedy Quotes - BrainyQuote



JFK used that first paragraph because he meant it, and it made people think differently. But the original statement came from a distant source:

More than ever, our country needs informed and engaged citizens who can positively contribute to the national discourse and political process. Most people attribute the quote of the day as belonging to former U.S. president John F. Kennedy. *However, the statement is traced back to ancient times when Cicero (106 - 43 BC), a politician, implored Romans to:*

"Ask not what your country can do for you, but rather what you can do for your country."

Quote of the Day: Ask what you can do for your country - National Quotes | Examiner.com

Also: 

 Luke 12:48
King James Version (KJV)

48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. *For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.*



The second part of the parable includes a caution that much will be required of the person to whom much is given.[1] J. Dwight Pentecost writes that this parable "emphasizes that privilege brings responsibility and that responsibility entails accountability.


----------



## GWV5903

Bfgrn said:


> GWV5903 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> HaHa Wingnuts have always tried to claim the beloved JFK as a president who would really hate the Democrats of today.  He laughed about Republicans..
> 
> JFK Humor
> 
> "I have just received the following telegram from my generous Daddy. It says, "Dear Jack: Don't buy a single vote more than is necessary. I'll be damned if I'm going to pay for a landslide." (Gridiron Dinner, Washington, D.C., 1958)
> 
> "Several nights ago, I dreamed that the good Lord touched me on the shoulder and said, 'Don't worry, you'll be the Democratic presidential nominee in 1960. What's more, you'll be elected.' I told Stu Symington about my dream. 'Funny thing,' said Stu, 'I had the same dream myself.' We both told our dreams to Lyndon Johnson, and Johnson said, 'That's funny. For the life of me, I can't remember tapping either of you two boys for the job.'
> 
> "Mr. Nixon in the last seven days has called me an economic ignoramus, a Pied Piper, and all the rest. I've just confined myself to calling him a Republican, but he says that is getting low."
> 
> "I have sent him [former President Harry S Truman] the following wire: 'Dear Mr. President: I have noted with interest your suggestion as to where those who vote for my opponent should go. While I understand and sympathize with your deep motivation, I think it is important that our side try to refrain from raising the religious issue."
> 
> 
> Question: The Republican National Committee recently adopted a resolution saying you were pretty much of a failure. How do you feel about that?
> 
> President Kennedy: I assume it passed unanimously.   (July 17, 1963)
> 
> Question: Senator, when does the moratorium end on Nixon's hospitalization and your ability to attack him?
> 
> Kennedy: Well, I said I would not mention him unless I could praise him until he got out of the hospital, and I have not mentioned him. (September 9, 1960)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have never claimed him, never will...
> 
> He was an elitist, the family still is...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A whole family of 'elitists', who have dedicated their public lives to helping the poor, the disabled, the disadvantaged and the forgotten.
> 
> Love 'em or hate 'em, the Kennedys have never been 'for sale'.
> 
> "The rights of every man are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened."
> President John F. Kennedy
Click to expand...


Get a grip...

They dedicated their whole lives??? 

You bought Camelot...

Fairy tale and all...

Moron...

Your gullibility is 2nd to none...


----------



## Bfgrn

GWV5903 said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GWV5903 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have never claimed him, never will...
> 
> He was an elitist, the family still is...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A whole family of 'elitists', who have dedicated their public lives to helping the poor, the disabled, the disadvantaged and the forgotten.
> 
> Love 'em or hate 'em, the Kennedys have never been 'for sale'.
> 
> "The rights of every man are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened."
> President John F. Kennedy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Get a grip...
> 
> They dedicated their whole lives???
> 
> You bought Camelot...
> 
> Fairy tale and all...
> 
> Moron...
> 
> Your gullibility is 2nd to none...
Click to expand...


Your ignorance is second to none. Can't dispute my claim, can ya? When has any Kennedy ever advocated for the rich, the connected, the privileged or the opulent? 

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.
President John F. Kennedy


----------



## Bfgrn

Lumpy 1 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Democrats, so thrilled that Obama and Harry didn't do their jobs in the first place..
> 
> Democrats blamed Bush for everything, even stubbed toes I suppose.
> 
> For Obama they look for excuses and placing blame on anyone else but..funny how that works..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey America.......I just took over as president, The Dow Jones has dropped 7000 points, we are losing 750,000 jobs a month, the auto companies and banks are on the verge of default and we are engaged in two overseas wars
> 
> Guess its my fault
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I"d ask what Harry and Pelosi were doing for the past 2 years unless of course I was chickenshit and looking for excuses. Also considering that things were going just fine until they showed up..
> 
> But that's just me...
Click to expand...


I'd ask for a list of legislation "Harry and Pelosi" authored and Bush signed that changed the "things" that were going just fine until they showed up..


----------



## GWV5903

Bfgrn said:


> GWV5903 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> A whole family of 'elitists', who have dedicated their public lives to helping the poor, the disabled, the disadvantaged and the forgotten.
> 
> Love 'em or hate 'em, the Kennedys have never been 'for sale'.
> 
> "The rights of every man are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened."
> President John F. Kennedy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get a grip...
> 
> They dedicated their whole lives???
> 
> You bought Camelot...
> 
> Fairy tale and all...
> 
> Moron...
> 
> Your gullibility is 2nd to none...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your ignorance is second to none. Can't dispute my claim, can ya? When has any Kennedy ever advocated for the rich, the connected, the privileged or the opulent?
> 
> If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.
> President John F. Kennedy
Click to expand...


It never fails, more stupid shit from the Kool Aid section...

They are carpetbaggers and you're too stupid to know it...


----------



## Bfgrn

GWV5903 said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GWV5903 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Get a grip...
> 
> They dedicated their whole lives???
> 
> You bought Camelot...
> 
> Fairy tale and all...
> 
> Moron...
> 
> Your gullibility is 2nd to none...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your ignorance is second to none. Can't dispute my claim, can ya? When has any Kennedy ever advocated for the rich, the connected, the privileged or the opulent?
> 
> If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.
> President John F. Kennedy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It never fails, more stupid shit from the Kool Aid section...
> 
> They are carpetbaggers and you're too stupid to know it...
Click to expand...


One that confounds good and evil is an enemy to good.
Edmund Burke

I feel sorry for people like you. To be so septic inside. 

*RFK's Voice...*






There is a major failing in today's political discourse. What is too often missing in our national debates is the moral dimension. Although, as a candidate, Barack Obama showed signs of changing the framework of Presidential politics, the last American political figure who insistently and credibly injected morality into politics was Robert F. Kennedy. In the more than forty years since his voice was stilled, no national leader has truly challenged us to apply the test of moral values to our search for solutions to domestic and global problems.

I had the opportunity to work for Robert Kennedy in his Senate office in New York. 
---
His office attracted pleas for help from the most vulnerable of New Yorkers. I vividly remember hearing from single mothers in Harlem, whose nights were regularly spent protecting their children from being attacked by rats, to elderly residents of Queens, whose doctors were refusing to accept Medicare's payments in full. (Indeed today, increasing numbers of physicians are repeating this reluctance to treat Medicare patients.) I would regularly call landlords, physicians, and others on behalf of Senator Kennedy asking what they were going to do to make life a bit more bearable for those who were suffering. Invariably, I would hear the words: "You mean to tell me that Robert Kennedy cares about this?" I would get notes from him in tiny scrawled writing asking how we had helped each writer or caller. We seldom failed to get action on each individual situation, and then preserved the patterns of evidence for potential systematic solutions in a Kennedy Administration.

To me, working for him proved that appeals to morality, backed by the power of a political legacy and a future Presidency, could make a real difference in people's anguished lives.

In so many areas, Robert Kennedy based his political positions on a simple, fundamental, and passionate appeal to what was the right thing to do. The moral value system that under-lied his politics emphasized that each of us had a responsibility to each other. In the age-old tug of war between individual freedom and social justice, he pressed for the latter. He confronted college students about the scandal of those without a higher education having to serve in the military. He scolded medical students about their indifference to the needs of the minority poor. He pressured corporate executives to create jobs in inner city communities like Bedford Stuyvesant. He raised uncomfortable questions, like "suppose God is black?" And he dared to accuse a Democratic Administration of appealing to the darker impulses of the American spirit by playing God in waging a destructive war in a tiny Far East nation.

One of his favorite quotes was Dante's that "the hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who in a time of moral crisis preserve their neutrality." Today, I believe he would say that we have neutralized morality.

When was the last time an American political leader framed a policy issue in terms of our social conscience? Discussions about health care, the future of retirement, the education of our children, and the distribution of wealth, inequality, and poverty seem devoid of moral idealism. We talk instead about the accommodation of interests, as though each has an equal claim and as though the paramount standard must be economic self-interest. As a result, we are still shamefully far from what RFK defined as the essence of the American ideal: "a social order shaped to the needs of all our people."

Whole article...


----------



## Lumpy 1




----------



## GWV5903

Bfgrn said:


> GWV5903 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your ignorance is second to none. Can't dispute my claim, can ya? When has any Kennedy ever advocated for the rich, the connected, the privileged or the opulent?
> 
> If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.
> President John F. Kennedy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It never fails, more stupid shit from the Kool Aid section...
> 
> They are carpetbaggers and you're too stupid to know it...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One that confounds good and evil is an enemy to good.
> Edmund Burke
> 
> * 1. I feel sorry for people like you. To be so septic inside.*
> *RFK's Voice...*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * 2. There is a major failing in today's political discourse. What is too often missing in our national debates is the moral dimension.* Although, as a candidate, Barack Obama showed signs of changing the framework of Presidential politics, the last American political figure who insistently and credibly injected morality into politics was Robert F. Kennedy. In the more than forty years since his voice was stilled, no national leader has truly challenged us to apply the test of moral values to our search for solutions to domestic and global problems.
> 
> I had the opportunity to work for Robert Kennedy in his Senate office in New York.
> ---
> His office attracted pleas for help from the most vulnerable of New Yorkers. I vividly remember hearing from single mothers in Harlem, whose nights were regularly spent protecting their children from being attacked by rats, to elderly residents of Queens, whose doctors were refusing to accept Medicare's payments in full. (Indeed today, increasing numbers of physicians are repeating this reluctance to treat Medicare patients.) I would regularly call landlords, physicians, and others on behalf of Senator Kennedy asking what they were going to do to make life a bit more bearable for those who were suffering. Invariably, I would hear the words: "You mean to tell me that Robert Kennedy cares about this?" I would get notes from him in tiny scrawled writing asking how we had helped each writer or caller. We seldom failed to get action on each individual situation, and then preserved the patterns of evidence for potential systematic solutions in a Kennedy Administration.
> 
> To me, working for him proved that appeals to morality, backed by the power of a political legacy and a future Presidency, could make a real difference in people's anguished lives.
> 
> In so many areas, Robert Kennedy based his political positions on a simple, fundamental, and passionate appeal to what was the right thing to do. The moral value system that under-lied his politics emphasized that each of us had a responsibility to each other. In the age-old tug of war between individual freedom and social justice, he pressed for the latter. He confronted college students about the scandal of those without a higher education having to serve in the military. He scolded medical students about their indifference to the needs of the minority poor. He pressured corporate executives to create jobs in inner city communities like Bedford Stuyvesant. He raised uncomfortable questions, like "suppose God is black?" And he dared to accuse a Democratic Administration of appealing to the darker impulses of the American spirit by playing God in waging a destructive war in a tiny Far East nation.
> 
> One of his favorite quotes was Dante's that "the hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who in a time of moral crisis preserve their neutrality." Today, I believe he would say that we have neutralized morality.
> 
> When was the last time an American political leader framed a policy issue in terms of our social conscience? Discussions about health care, the future of retirement, the education of our children, and the distribution of wealth, inequality, and poverty seem devoid of moral idealism. We talk instead about the accommodation of interests, as though each has an equal claim and as though the paramount standard must be economic self-interest. As a result, we are still shamefully far from what RFK defined as the essence of the American ideal: "a social order shaped to the needs of all our people."
> 
> Whole article...
Click to expand...


1. I do not need your sympathy, my spirit is in good shape...

And there is nothing septic about me...

2. You really need to think before moving your lips, in this case your fingers, but the Kennedy's are the least likely to set any moral agendas, remember this is/was one if not the most womanizing groups of men to walk the face of the earth and it started with Joe Sr., you need to get out from under that rock more often...


----------



## Bfgrn

GWV5903 said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GWV5903 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It never fails, more stupid shit from the Kool Aid section...
> 
> They are carpetbaggers and you're too stupid to know it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One that confounds good and evil is an enemy to good.
> Edmund Burke
> 
> * 1. I feel sorry for people like you. To be so septic inside.*
> *RFK's Voice...*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * 2. There is a major failing in today's political discourse. What is too often missing in our national debates is the moral dimension.* Although, as a candidate, Barack Obama showed signs of changing the framework of Presidential politics, the last American political figure who insistently and credibly injected morality into politics was Robert F. Kennedy. In the more than forty years since his voice was stilled, no national leader has truly challenged us to apply the test of moral values to our search for solutions to domestic and global problems.
> 
> I had the opportunity to work for Robert Kennedy in his Senate office in New York.
> ---
> His office attracted pleas for help from the most vulnerable of New Yorkers. I vividly remember hearing from single mothers in Harlem, whose nights were regularly spent protecting their children from being attacked by rats, to elderly residents of Queens, whose doctors were refusing to accept Medicare's payments in full. (Indeed today, increasing numbers of physicians are repeating this reluctance to treat Medicare patients.) I would regularly call landlords, physicians, and others on behalf of Senator Kennedy asking what they were going to do to make life a bit more bearable for those who were suffering. Invariably, I would hear the words: "You mean to tell me that Robert Kennedy cares about this?" I would get notes from him in tiny scrawled writing asking how we had helped each writer or caller. We seldom failed to get action on each individual situation, and then preserved the patterns of evidence for potential systematic solutions in a Kennedy Administration.
> 
> To me, working for him proved that appeals to morality, backed by the power of a political legacy and a future Presidency, could make a real difference in people's anguished lives.
> 
> In so many areas, Robert Kennedy based his political positions on a simple, fundamental, and passionate appeal to what was the right thing to do. The moral value system that under-lied his politics emphasized that each of us had a responsibility to each other. In the age-old tug of war between individual freedom and social justice, he pressed for the latter. He confronted college students about the scandal of those without a higher education having to serve in the military. He scolded medical students about their indifference to the needs of the minority poor. He pressured corporate executives to create jobs in inner city communities like Bedford Stuyvesant. He raised uncomfortable questions, like "suppose God is black?" And he dared to accuse a Democratic Administration of appealing to the darker impulses of the American spirit by playing God in waging a destructive war in a tiny Far East nation.
> 
> One of his favorite quotes was Dante's that "the hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who in a time of moral crisis preserve their neutrality." Today, I believe he would say that we have neutralized morality.
> 
> When was the last time an American political leader framed a policy issue in terms of our social conscience? Discussions about health care, the future of retirement, the education of our children, and the distribution of wealth, inequality, and poverty seem devoid of moral idealism. We talk instead about the accommodation of interests, as though each has an equal claim and as though the paramount standard must be economic self-interest. As a result, we are still shamefully far from what RFK defined as the essence of the American ideal: "a social order shaped to the needs of all our people."
> 
> Whole article...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. I do not need your sympathy, my spirit is in good shape...
> 
> And there is nothing septic about me...
> 
> 2. You really need to think before moving your lips, in this case your fingers, but the Kennedy's are the least likely to set any moral agendas, remember this is/was one if not the most womanizing groups of men to walk the face of the earth and it started with Joe Sr., you need to get out from under that rock more often...
Click to expand...


Everything about you is septic. It IS what conservatism is all about.

The history of mankind has been a struggle between those who want to increase freedom, opportunity and rights to all people and those who want to restrict them. The people who have always fought to increase freedom, opportunity and rights are liberals. The people who have fought to restrict them are conservatives.

Liberals believe people are basically good, conservatives believe people are basically evil. 
Liberals believe in raising people up, conservatives believe in pushing people down.
Liberals believe in encouragement, conservatives believe in scorn.
Liberals always stand up for the little guy, conservatives always stand up for the big guy.


----------



## Papageorgio

Bfgrn said:


> GWV5903 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> One that confounds good and evil is an enemy to good.
> Edmund Burke
> 
> * 1. I feel sorry for people like you. To be so septic inside.*
> *RFK's Voice...*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * 2. There is a major failing in today's political discourse. What is too often missing in our national debates is the moral dimension.* Although, as a candidate, Barack Obama showed signs of changing the framework of Presidential politics, the last American political figure who insistently and credibly injected morality into politics was Robert F. Kennedy. In the more than forty years since his voice was stilled, no national leader has truly challenged us to apply the test of moral values to our search for solutions to domestic and global problems.
> 
> I had the opportunity to work for Robert Kennedy in his Senate office in New York.
> ---
> His office attracted pleas for help from the most vulnerable of New Yorkers. I vividly remember hearing from single mothers in Harlem, whose nights were regularly spent protecting their children from being attacked by rats, to elderly residents of Queens, whose doctors were refusing to accept Medicare's payments in full. (Indeed today, increasing numbers of physicians are repeating this reluctance to treat Medicare patients.) I would regularly call landlords, physicians, and others on behalf of Senator Kennedy asking what they were going to do to make life a bit more bearable for those who were suffering. Invariably, I would hear the words: "You mean to tell me that Robert Kennedy cares about this?" I would get notes from him in tiny scrawled writing asking how we had helped each writer or caller. We seldom failed to get action on each individual situation, and then preserved the patterns of evidence for potential systematic solutions in a Kennedy Administration.
> 
> To me, working for him proved that appeals to morality, backed by the power of a political legacy and a future Presidency, could make a real difference in people's anguished lives.
> 
> In so many areas, Robert Kennedy based his political positions on a simple, fundamental, and passionate appeal to what was the right thing to do. The moral value system that under-lied his politics emphasized that each of us had a responsibility to each other. In the age-old tug of war between individual freedom and social justice, he pressed for the latter. He confronted college students about the scandal of those without a higher education having to serve in the military. He scolded medical students about their indifference to the needs of the minority poor. He pressured corporate executives to create jobs in inner city communities like Bedford Stuyvesant. He raised uncomfortable questions, like "suppose God is black?" And he dared to accuse a Democratic Administration of appealing to the darker impulses of the American spirit by playing God in waging a destructive war in a tiny Far East nation.
> 
> One of his favorite quotes was Dante's that "the hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who in a time of moral crisis preserve their neutrality." Today, I believe he would say that we have neutralized morality.
> 
> When was the last time an American political leader framed a policy issue in terms of our social conscience? Discussions about health care, the future of retirement, the education of our children, and the distribution of wealth, inequality, and poverty seem devoid of moral idealism. We talk instead about the accommodation of interests, as though each has an equal claim and as though the paramount standard must be economic self-interest. As a result, we are still shamefully far from what RFK defined as the essence of the American ideal: "a social order shaped to the needs of all our people."
> 
> Whole article...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. I do not need your sympathy, my spirit is in good shape...
> 
> And there is nothing septic about me...
> 
> 2. You really need to think before moving your lips, in this case your fingers, but the Kennedy's are the least likely to set any moral agendas, remember this is/was one if not the most womanizing groups of men to walk the face of the earth and it started with Joe Sr., you need to get out from under that rock more often...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Everything about you is septic. It IS what conservatism is all about.
> 
> The history of mankind has been a struggle between those who want to increase freedom, opportunity and rights to all people and those who want to restrict them. The people who have always fought to increase freedom, opportunity and rights are liberals. The people who have fought to restrict them are conservatives.
> 
> Liberals believe people are basically good, conservatives believe people are basically evil.
> Liberals believe in raising people up, conservatives believe in pushing people down.
> Liberals believe in encouragement, conservatives believe in scorn.
> Liberals always stand up for the little guy, conservatives always stand up for the big guy.
Click to expand...


Disagree, liberals want higher taxes, because those that have are greedy and will not share their wealth. Conservatives give to society because the are blessed and need to share.
Liberals want to enslave the poor to government and the conservatives want to teach and to make people self sufficient.
Liberals encourage property, conservatives encourage freedom, education, going out and live your dream.
Liberals keep the little guy down, keep a heavy tax burden on the middle class, encourage the poor to stay poor. Conservatives believe that you stand up for yourself, be tall, be counted and take pride in your life and your making a living.


----------



## GWV5903

Bfgrn said:


> GWV5903 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> One that confounds good and evil is an enemy to good.
> Edmund Burke
> 
> * 1. I feel sorry for people like you. To be so septic inside.*
> *RFK's Voice...*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * 2. There is a major failing in today's political discourse. What is too often missing in our national debates is the moral dimension.* Although, as a candidate, Barack Obama showed signs of changing the framework of Presidential politics, the last American political figure who insistently and credibly injected morality into politics was Robert F. Kennedy. In the more than forty years since his voice was stilled, no national leader has truly challenged us to apply the test of moral values to our search for solutions to domestic and global problems.
> 
> I had the opportunity to work for Robert Kennedy in his Senate office in New York.
> ---
> His office attracted pleas for help from the most vulnerable of New Yorkers. I vividly remember hearing from single mothers in Harlem, whose nights were regularly spent protecting their children from being attacked by rats, to elderly residents of Queens, whose doctors were refusing to accept Medicare's payments in full. (Indeed today, increasing numbers of physicians are repeating this reluctance to treat Medicare patients.) I would regularly call landlords, physicians, and others on behalf of Senator Kennedy asking what they were going to do to make life a bit more bearable for those who were suffering. Invariably, I would hear the words: "You mean to tell me that Robert Kennedy cares about this?" I would get notes from him in tiny scrawled writing asking how we had helped each writer or caller. We seldom failed to get action on each individual situation, and then preserved the patterns of evidence for potential systematic solutions in a Kennedy Administration.
> 
> To me, working for him proved that appeals to morality, backed by the power of a political legacy and a future Presidency, could make a real difference in people's anguished lives.
> 
> In so many areas, Robert Kennedy based his political positions on a simple, fundamental, and passionate appeal to what was the right thing to do. The moral value system that under-lied his politics emphasized that each of us had a responsibility to each other. In the age-old tug of war between individual freedom and social justice, he pressed for the latter. He confronted college students about the scandal of those without a higher education having to serve in the military. He scolded medical students about their indifference to the needs of the minority poor. He pressured corporate executives to create jobs in inner city communities like Bedford Stuyvesant. He raised uncomfortable questions, like "suppose God is black?" And he dared to accuse a Democratic Administration of appealing to the darker impulses of the American spirit by playing God in waging a destructive war in a tiny Far East nation.
> 
> One of his favorite quotes was Dante's that "the hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who in a time of moral crisis preserve their neutrality." Today, I believe he would say that we have neutralized morality.
> 
> When was the last time an American political leader framed a policy issue in terms of our social conscience? Discussions about health care, the future of retirement, the education of our children, and the distribution of wealth, inequality, and poverty seem devoid of moral idealism. We talk instead about the accommodation of interests, as though each has an equal claim and as though the paramount standard must be economic self-interest. As a result, we are still shamefully far from what RFK defined as the essence of the American ideal: "a social order shaped to the needs of all our people."
> 
> Whole article...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. I do not need your sympathy, my spirit is in good shape...
> 
> And there is nothing septic about me...
> 
> 2. You really need to think before moving your lips, in this case your fingers, but the Kennedy's are the least likely to set any moral agendas, remember this is/was one if not the most womanizing groups of men to walk the face of the earth and it started with Joe Sr., you need to get out from under that rock more often...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Everything about you is septic. It IS what conservatism is all about.
> 
> The history of mankind has been a struggle between those who want to increase freedom, opportunity and rights to all people and those who want to restrict them. The people who have always fought to increase freedom, opportunity and rights are liberals. The people who have fought to restrict them are conservatives.
> 
> Liberals believe people are basically good, conservatives believe people are basically evil.
> Liberals believe in raising people up, conservatives believe in pushing people down.
> Liberals believe in encouragement, conservatives believe in scorn.
> Liberals always stand up for the little guy, conservatives always stand up for the big guy.
Click to expand...




&#8220;No matter how big the lie; repeat it often enough and the masses will regard it as the truth.&#8221; 

&#8213; John F. Kennedy

How ironic I could use a JFK quote on your BS...

I don't hate my fellow Democrats, but my fellow Democrats hate anyone who disagrees with them...


----------



## Bfgrn

Papageorgio said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GWV5903 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. I do not need your sympathy, my spirit is in good shape...
> 
> And there is nothing septic about me...
> 
> 2. You really need to think before moving your lips, in this case your fingers, but the Kennedy's are the least likely to set any moral agendas, remember this is/was one if not the most womanizing groups of men to walk the face of the earth and it started with Joe Sr., you need to get out from under that rock more often...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything about you is septic. It IS what conservatism is all about.
> 
> The history of mankind has been a struggle between those who want to increase freedom, opportunity and rights to all people and those who want to restrict them. The people who have always fought to increase freedom, opportunity and rights are liberals. The people who have fought to restrict them are conservatives.
> 
> Liberals believe people are basically good, conservatives believe people are basically evil.
> Liberals believe in raising people up, conservatives believe in pushing people down.
> Liberals believe in encouragement, conservatives believe in scorn.
> Liberals always stand up for the little guy, conservatives always stand up for the big guy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Disagree, liberals want higher taxes, because those that have are greedy and will not share their wealth. Conservatives give to society because the are blessed and need to share.
> Liberals want to enslave the poor to government and the conservatives want to teach and to make people self sufficient.
> Liberals encourage property, conservatives encourage freedom, education, going out and live your dream.
> Liberals keep the little guy down, keep a heavy tax burden on the middle class, encourage the poor to stay poor. Conservatives believe that you stand up for yourself, be tall, be counted and take pride in your life and your making a living.
Click to expand...


Total bullshit. The right's mantra is social Darwinism...survival of the richest. 

Sarge was as liberal as they get. Shriver was the driving force behind the creation of the Peace Corps, founded the Job Corps, Head Start and other programs as the "architect" of the "War on Poverty"  He was married to JFK's sister Eunice. They started Special Olymics in their backyard with Camp Shriver.

"The simplest description of the War on Poverty is that it is a means of making life available for any and all pursuers. It does not try to make men good -- because that is moralizing. It does not try to give men what they want -- because that is catering. It does not try to give men false hopes -- because that is deception. Instead, the War on Poverty tries only to create the conditions by which the good life can be lived -- and that is humanism."
Robert Sargent "Sarge" Shriver, Jr.


----------



## Bfgrn

GWV5903 said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GWV5903 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. I do not need your sympathy, my spirit is in good shape...
> 
> And there is nothing septic about me...
> 
> 2. You really need to think before moving your lips, in this case your fingers, but the Kennedy's are the least likely to set any moral agendas, remember this is/was one if not the most womanizing groups of men to walk the face of the earth and it started with Joe Sr., you need to get out from under that rock more often...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything about you is septic. It IS what conservatism is all about.
> 
> The history of mankind has been a struggle between those who want to increase freedom, opportunity and rights to all people and those who want to restrict them. The people who have always fought to increase freedom, opportunity and rights are liberals. The people who have fought to restrict them are conservatives.
> 
> Liberals believe people are basically good, conservatives believe people are basically evil.
> Liberals believe in raising people up, conservatives believe in pushing people down.
> Liberals believe in encouragement, conservatives believe in scorn.
> Liberals always stand up for the little guy, conservatives always stand up for the big guy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No matter how big the lie; repeat it often enough and the masses will regard it as the truth.
> 
> &#8213; John F. Kennedy
> 
> How ironic I could use a JFK quote on your BS...
> 
> I don't hate my fellow Democrats, but my fellow Democrats hate anyone who disagrees with them...
Click to expand...


I am a student of JFK. You need to provide documentation of that quote. It has been attributed to Joseph Goebbels and there is no proof he said it either.


Joseph Goebbels

Misattributed
If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself.

    Attributed to Goebbels in Publications Relating to Various Aspects of Communism (1946), by United States Congress, House Committee on Un-American Activities, Issues 1-15, p.19, no reliable source has been located, and this is probably simply a further variation of the Big Lie idea
    Variants:
    If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it.
    If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth.
    If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.
    If you repeat a lie long enough, it becomes truth.
    If you repeat a lie many times, people are bound to start believing it.


----------



## GWV5903

Bfgrn said:


> GWV5903 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everything about you is septic. It IS what conservatism is all about.
> 
> The history of mankind has been a struggle between those who want to increase freedom, opportunity and rights to all people and those who want to restrict them. The people who have always fought to increase freedom, opportunity and rights are liberals. The people who have fought to restrict them are conservatives.
> 
> Liberals believe people are basically good, conservatives believe people are basically evil.
> Liberals believe in raising people up, conservatives believe in pushing people down.
> Liberals believe in encouragement, conservatives believe in scorn.
> Liberals always stand up for the little guy, conservatives always stand up for the big guy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No matter how big the lie; repeat it often enough and the masses will regard it as the truth.
> 
> &#8213; John F. Kennedy
> 
> How ironic I could use a JFK quote on your BS...
> 
> I don't hate my fellow Democrats, but my fellow Democrats hate anyone who disagrees with them...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am a student of JFK. You need to provide documentation of that quote. It has been attributed to Joseph Goebbels and there is no proof he said it either.
> 
> 
> Joseph Goebbels
> 
> Misattributed
> If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself.
> 
> Attributed to Goebbels in Publications Relating to Various Aspects of Communism (1946), by United States Congress, House Committee on Un-American Activities, Issues 1-15, p.19, no reliable source has been located, and this is probably simply a further variation of the Big Lie idea
> Variants:
> If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it.
> If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth.
> If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.
> If you repeat a lie long enough, it becomes truth.
> If you repeat a lie many times, people are bound to start believing it.
Click to expand...


And like a lot of issues you claim to be a student of, Google is your friend... 

No matter how big the lie; repeat it often enough and the masses will regard it as the truth.

"No matter how big the lie; repeat it often enough and the masses will regard it as the truth." - John F. Kennedy - Live by quotes

It's okay, I am certain most JFK fans will not hold it against you that you connected him with Goebbels...


----------



## Bfgrn

GWV5903 said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GWV5903 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No matter how big the lie; repeat it often enough and the masses will regard it as the truth.
> 
> &#8213; John F. Kennedy
> 
> How ironic I could use a JFK quote on your BS...
> 
> I don't hate my fellow Democrats, but my fellow Democrats hate anyone who disagrees with them...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am a student of JFK. You need to provide documentation of that quote. It has been attributed to Joseph Goebbels and there is no proof he said it either.
> 
> 
> Joseph Goebbels
> 
> Misattributed
> If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself.
> 
> Attributed to Goebbels in Publications Relating to Various Aspects of Communism (1946), by United States Congress, House Committee on Un-American Activities, Issues 1-15, p.19, no reliable source has been located, and this is probably simply a further variation of the Big Lie idea
> Variants:
> If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it.
> If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth.
> If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.
> If you repeat a lie long enough, it becomes truth.
> If you repeat a lie many times, people are bound to start believing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And like a lot of issues you claim to be a student of, Google is your friend...
> 
> No matter how big the lie; repeat it often enough and the masses will regard it as the truth.
> 
> "No matter how big the lie; repeat it often enough and the masses will regard it as the truth." - John F. Kennedy - Live by quotes
> 
> It's okay, I am certain most JFK fans will not hold it against you that you connected him with Goebbels...
Click to expand...


Those are not 'sources'. Did you meet your French model boyfriend on the internet?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmx4twCK3_I]State Farm® - State of Disbelief (French Model) - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Lumpy 1 said:


> Where have They All Gone..?
> 
> My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> The best road to progress is freedom's road.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> 
> John F. Kennedy Quotes - BrainyQuote



Lumpy how could you have missed this one?

Let us not seek the Republican answer or the Democratic answer, but the right answer. Let us not seek to fix the blame for the past. Let us accept our own responsibility for the future.
Read more at John F. Kennedy Quotes - BrainyQuote


----------



## bigrebnc1775

I'm convinced Kennedy was not anything like the current crop of democrats. He was a class act with some flaws. WOMEN being one of them. and their is nothing wrong with that.
I would take a JFK over any Republican we have at the present.


----------



## Papageorgio

Bfgrn said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everything about you is septic. It IS what conservatism is all about.
> 
> The history of mankind has been a struggle between those who want to increase freedom, opportunity and rights to all people and those who want to restrict them. The people who have always fought to increase freedom, opportunity and rights are liberals. The people who have fought to restrict them are conservatives.
> 
> Liberals believe people are basically good, conservatives believe people are basically evil.
> Liberals believe in raising people up, conservatives believe in pushing people down.
> Liberals believe in encouragement, conservatives believe in scorn.
> Liberals always stand up for the little guy, conservatives always stand up for the big guy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disagree, liberals want higher taxes, because those that have are greedy and will not share their wealth. Conservatives give to society because the are blessed and need to share.
> Liberals want to enslave the poor to government and the conservatives want to teach and to make people self sufficient.
> Liberals encourage property, conservatives encourage freedom, education, going out and live your dream.
> Liberals keep the little guy down, keep a heavy tax burden on the middle class, encourage the poor to stay poor. Conservatives believe that you stand up for yourself, be tall, be counted and take pride in your life and your making a living.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Total bullshit. The right's mantra is social Darwinism...survival of the richest.
> 
> Sarge was as liberal as they get. Shriver was the driving force behind the creation of the Peace Corps, founded the Job Corps, Head Start and other programs as the "architect" of the "War on Poverty"  He was married to JFK's sister Eunice. They started Special Olymics in their backyard with Camp Shriver.
> 
> "The simplest description of the War on Poverty is that it is a means of making life available for any and all pursuers. It does not try to make men good -- because that is moralizing. It does not try to give men what they want -- because that is catering. It does not try to give men false hopes -- because that is deception. Instead, the War on Poverty tries only to create the conditions by which the good life can be lived -- and that is humanism."
> Robert Sargent "Sarge" Shriver, Jr.
Click to expand...


So your response to me is "total bullshit" and you go off on a mindless rant. 

I know who Shriver was, you don't need to throw up names. 

Humphrey was the one that introduced the bill for the Peace Corp in 1957 and pushed to get the bill through, Shriver being a Kennedy relative was chosen to lead the Peace Corp.

How are the poor getting a good life? How are we creating good conditions? You been to Detroit? How about the projects of Chicago?


----------



## Papageorgio

Bfgrn said:


> GWV5903 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everything about you is septic. It IS what conservatism is all about.
> 
> The history of mankind has been a struggle between those who want to increase freedom, opportunity and rights to all people and those who want to restrict them. The people who have always fought to increase freedom, opportunity and rights are liberals. The people who have fought to restrict them are conservatives.
> 
> Liberals believe people are basically good, conservatives believe people are basically evil.
> Liberals believe in raising people up, conservatives believe in pushing people down.
> Liberals believe in encouragement, conservatives believe in scorn.
> Liberals always stand up for the little guy, conservatives always stand up for the big guy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No matter how big the lie; repeat it often enough and the masses will regard it as the truth.
> 
> &#8213; John F. Kennedy
> 
> How ironic I could use a JFK quote on your BS...
> 
> I don't hate my fellow Democrats, but my fellow Democrats hate anyone who disagrees with them...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am a student of JFK. You need to provide documentation of that quote. It has been attributed to Joseph Goebbels and there is no proof he said it either.
> 
> 
> Joseph Goebbels
> 
> Misattributed
> If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself.
> 
> Attributed to Goebbels in Publications Relating to Various Aspects of Communism (1946), by United States Congress, House Committee on Un-American Activities, Issues 1-15, p.19, no reliable source has been located, and this is probably simply a further variation of the Big Lie idea
> Variants:
> If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it.
> If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth.
> If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.
> If you repeat a lie long enough, it becomes truth.
> If you repeat a lie many times, people are bound to start believing it.
Click to expand...


You seem to know all the variations of how it is said, and you use the principle often.


----------



## GWV5903

Bfgrn said:


> GWV5903 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a student of JFK. You need to provide documentation of that quote. It has been attributed to Joseph Goebbels and there is no proof he said it either.
> 
> 
> Joseph Goebbels
> 
> Misattributed
> If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself.
> 
> Attributed to Goebbels in Publications Relating to Various Aspects of Communism (1946), by United States Congress, House Committee on Un-American Activities, Issues 1-15, p.19, no reliable source has been located, and this is probably simply a further variation of the Big Lie idea
> Variants:
> If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it.
> If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth.
> If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.
> If you repeat a lie long enough, it becomes truth.
> If you repeat a lie many times, people are bound to start believing it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And like a lot of issues you claim to be a student of, Google is your friend...
> 
> No matter how big the lie; repeat it often enough and the masses will regard it as the truth.
> 
> "No matter how big the lie; repeat it often enough and the masses will regard it as the truth." - John F. Kennedy - Live by quotes
> 
> It's okay, I am certain most JFK fans will not hold it against you that you connected him with Goebbels...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those are not 'sources'. Did you meet your French model boyfriend on the internet?
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmx4twCK3_I]State Farm® - State of Disbelief (French Model) - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...


touché...


----------



## GWV5903

bigrebnc1775 said:


> I'm convinced Kennedy was not anything like the current crop of democrats. He was a class act with some flaws. WOMEN being one of them. and their is nothing wrong with that.
> I would take a JFK over any Republican we have at the present.



JFK over Rand Paul? Ted Cruz? Jim DeMint?

Sorry, his assassination was/is a terrible event I wouldn't wish on anyone...

But I would take any of these three and a list of many more over JFK...


----------



## bigrebnc1775

GWV5903 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm convinced Kennedy was not anything like the current crop of democrats. He was a class act with some flaws. WOMEN being one of them. and their is nothing wrong with that.
> I would take a JFK over any Republican we have at the present.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JFK over Rand Paul? Ted Cruz? Jim DeMint?
> 
> Sorry, his assassination was/is a terrible event I wouldn't wish on anyone...
> 
> But I would take any of these three and a list of many more over JFK...
Click to expand...


Hell yes JFK over any Republican we have now.


----------



## Lumpy 1

bigrebnc1775 said:


> GWV5903 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm convinced Kennedy was not anything like the current crop of democrats. He was a class act with some flaws. WOMEN being one of them. and their is nothing wrong with that.
> I would take a JFK over any Republican we have at the present.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JFK over Rand Paul? Ted Cruz? Jim DeMint?
> 
> Sorry, his assassination was/is a terrible event I wouldn't wish on anyone...
> 
> But I would take any of these three and a list of many more over JFK...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hell yes JFK over any Republican we have now.
Click to expand...


It's interesting that you say "we have now"

There's plenty of impressive Republicans but their "not presented" as possible.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Lumpy 1 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GWV5903 said:
> 
> 
> 
> JFK over Rand Paul? Ted Cruz? Jim DeMint?
> 
> Sorry, his assassination was/is a terrible event I wouldn't wish on anyone...
> 
> But I would take any of these three and a list of many more over JFK...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hell yes JFK over any Republican we have now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's interesting that you say "we have now"
> 
> There's plenty of impressive Republicans but their "not presented" as possible.
Click to expand...


It's just my opinion but what I have read from JFK's speeches he's more conservative than a lot self proclaimed republicans are.


----------



## Bfgrn

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hell yes JFK over any Republican we have now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's interesting that you say "we have now"
> 
> There's plenty of impressive Republicans but their "not presented" as possible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's just my opinion but what I have read from JFK's speeches he's more conservative than a lot self proclaimed republicans are.
Click to expand...


I guess Bobby Jr. is right...LOL

"Eighty percent of Republicans are just Democrats that don't know what's going on"
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.


----------



## Lumpy 1

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hell yes JFK over any Republican we have now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's interesting that you say "we have now"
> 
> There's plenty of impressive Republicans but their "not presented" as possible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's just my opinion but what I have read from JFK's speeches he's more conservative than a lot self proclaimed republicans are.
Click to expand...


I agree..


----------



## Lumpy 1

Bfgrn said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's interesting that you say "we have now"
> 
> There's plenty of impressive Republicans but their "not presented" as possible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's just my opinion but what I have read from JFK's speeches he's more conservative than a lot self proclaimed republicans are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess Bobby Jr. is right...LOL
> 
> "Eighty percent of Republicans are just Democrats that don't know what's going on"
> Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Click to expand...


It was a different time.. Democrats weren't developing the entitlement vote back then, they still believed in taking responsibility for themselves.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Bfgrn said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's interesting that you say "we have now"
> 
> There's plenty of impressive Republicans but their "not presented" as possible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's just my opinion but what I have read from JFK's speeches he's more conservative than a lot self proclaimed republicans are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess Bobby Jr. is right...LOL
> 
> "Eighty percent of Republicans are just Democrats that don't know what's going on"
> Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Click to expand...


and liberals are even more clueless


----------



## Bfgrn

Lumpy 1 said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's just my opinion but what I have read from JFK's speeches he's more conservative than a lot self proclaimed republicans are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess Bobby Jr. is right...LOL
> 
> "Eighty percent of Republicans are just Democrats that don't know what's going on"
> Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was a different time.. Democrats weren't developing the entitlement vote back then, they still believed in taking responsibility for yourself.
Click to expand...


Still do. But you folks on the right have swallowed the right wing think tank propaganda. Times WERE different, there was an effort by both parties to govern and work for We, the People. There were no super-funded corporate think tanks. 

WHY is it that the right's narrative is in complete lockstep with these 'think' tanks? Do you folks EVER question these corporate anti-worker, anti-environmental protection, anti-union slime balls?

Here is a very common theme. Check out ANY right wing 'think' tank, they are all funded by the same gang of big polluters.

Heritage Foundation funding:


    Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation
    Scaife Foundations: Sarah Mellon Scaife, Scaife Family, Carthage
    John M. Olin Foundation, Inc.
    Castle Rock Foundation
    JM Foundation
    Claude R. Lambe Charitable Foundation
    Philip M. McKenna Foundation, Inc.
    Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation
    Roe Foundation
    Rodney Fund
    Ruth and Lovett Peters Foundation
    Orville D. and Ruth A. Merillat Foundation
    Bill and Berniece Grewcock Foundation
    Samuel Roberts Noble Foundation
    William H. Donner Foundation
    Walton Family Foundation
    Armstrong Foundation
    John Templeton Foundation
    William E. Simon Foundation


"It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners"
Albert Camus


----------



## Lumpy 1

Obama contributors..

Top Contributors to Barack Obama | OpenSecrets

JPMorgan Employees Join Goldman Sachs Among Top Obama Donors - Bloomberg

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/13/u...e-reliant-on-big-money-contributors.html?_r=0


----------



## Bfgrn

Lumpy 1 said:


> Obama contributors..
> 
> Top Contributors to Barack Obama | OpenSecrets
> 
> JPMorgan Employees Join Goldman Sachs Among Top Obama Donors - Bloomberg
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/13/u...e-reliant-on-big-money-contributors.html?_r=0



And now the REST of the story...

Example...


----------



## GWV5903

Try these pages from Open Secrets...

Gotta Love those lawyers...

Top Industries to Candidates | OpenSecrets

Selected Industry Totals | OpenSecrets


----------



## Lumpy 1

GWV5903 said:


> Try these pages from Open Secrets...
> 
> Gotta Love those lawyers...
> 
> Top Industries to Candidates | OpenSecrets
> 
> Selected Industry Totals | OpenSecrets



Thank You.. It's a great reference site...


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Bfgrn said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obama contributors..
> 
> Top Contributors to Barack Obama | OpenSecrets
> 
> JPMorgan Employees Join Goldman Sachs Among Top Obama Donors - Bloomberg
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/13/u...e-reliant-on-big-money-contributors.html?_r=0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And now the REST of the story...
> 
> Example...
Click to expand...


Well I guess goldman wae finally fed up with obama's shit
Goldman Sachs	$1,034,615
Top Contributors to Barack Obama | OpenSecrets


----------



## Bfgrn

GWV5903 said:


> Try these pages from Open Secrets...
> 
> Gotta Love those lawyers...
> 
> Top Industries to Candidates | OpenSecrets
> 
> Selected Industry Totals | OpenSecrets



Insurance: Top Recipients


----------



## Bfgrn

Commercial Banks: Top Recipients







Oil & Gas: Top Recipients


----------



## Papageorgio

Your insurance and bankers are both the same image.

Thanks for proving how much Obama owes big business.

It seems he is paying them off, no bankers charge for their games, I mean not even a hint that they would be in trouble, GM, GE, unions, insurance companies, bankers. 

Pretty good sized lists of his payoffs.

And don't forget him extending those no bid contracts to Haliburton.


----------



## Lumpy 1

Bfgrn said:


> Commercial Banks: Top Recipients
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oil & Gas: Top Recipients



I wouldn't be surprised to find out that this Iran deal has quite a bit to do with Obama/Democrats sucking up to the oil companies..


----------



## GWV5903

Bfgrn said:


> GWV5903 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Try these pages from Open Secrets...
> 
> Gotta Love those lawyers...
> 
> Top Industries to Candidates | OpenSecrets
> 
> Selected Industry Totals | OpenSecrets
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insurance: Top Recipients
Click to expand...


Did you miss the fact that Lawyers gave $44MM?? 

And Insurance gave $7.2MM...

There in lies the problem, it's pretty simple...

Oh and BTW they gave most of it to DEMS...


----------



## Bfgrn

Lumpy 1 said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Commercial Banks: Top Recipients
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oil & Gas: Top Recipients
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised to find out that this Iran deal has quite a bit to do with Obama/Democrats sucking up to the oil companies..
Click to expand...


You have avoided my question and you are trying to deflect...

WHY is it that the right's narrative is in complete lockstep with these 'think' tanks? Do you folks EVER question these corporate anti-worker, anti-environmental protection, anti-union slime balls?


----------



## Bfgrn

GWV5903 said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GWV5903 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Try these pages from Open Secrets...
> 
> Gotta Love those lawyers...
> 
> Top Industries to Candidates | OpenSecrets
> 
> Selected Industry Totals | OpenSecrets
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insurance: Top Recipients
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you miss the fact that Lawyers gave $44MM??
> 
> And Insurance gave $7.2MM...
> 
> There in lies the problem, it's pretty simple...
> 
> Oh and BTW they gave most of it to DEMS...
Click to expand...


I am not surprised lawyers favor Democrats. They side with the party that believes in justice.

The irony is conservative 'crow' about less government intervention but they have NO problem governing by dictum and fiat...a.k.a. TORT reform.

Why are people on the right so willing to undermine our justice system for doctors, corporations and polluters? If someone files a lawsuit, shouldn't a jury of our peers be able to determine if it is valid or frivolous?

Tort reform IS government intervention. It's bureaucrats dictating what a jury of our peers can or can't do. It undermines our justice system and gives the big guy a baseball bat he can use to beat the final measure of injustice into the little guy. Not only does the person or family suffer from the results of the doctor mistake or negligence, or the corporate toxins or dangerous product, the person and family must also endure the measure of the final insult: 'Yes, you were gravely wronged, but you will not be justly compensated' 

Justice does NOT mean a jury of citizens with a vested interest, bias or conflict of interest. It means a fair trial by a jury of citizens withOUT a vested interest, bias or conflict of interest.

Tort reform is an effort to LIMIT or CAP the amount of compensation a person or family can receive, no matter how egregious and devastating the MALpractice is to a patient. I remember watching on C-Span in 2005 as Republicans argue on the floor of the Senate to limit the amount of compensation a person or family can receive to $250,000 as a lifetime amount. THAT is bureaucrats dictating what a jury of our peers can or can't do. It means no matter the circumstances and REAL cost to a family who would have to take care of a child or family member from birth to grave, bureaucrats dictate they can only receive $250,000, a measly amount if you amortize that over a human beings lifetime and the exorbitant costs that can be incurred. A JURY should decide the amount of compensation based on the facts of the case, not some Politburo. THAT is how our justice system is supposed to work, every citizen has the right to a FAIR trial.

It amazes me how you folks on the right say you are against government intervention into people's lives; then you embrace the most egregious and overbearing government intervention into people's lives and bureaucrats dictating that is right out of the Soviet Union.

BTW, the same doctors have no problem taking HMO's and insurance companies to court. 

Take a look at the record of a host of state medical societies, often joined by the American Medical Association (AMA), who complain about lawsuits and argue that compensation to injured patients should be severely limited. Yet when an HMO, a health insurer or even an auto insurance company has treated doctors unfairly, these doctors go straight to court. And to top it off, while lobbying to limit patients ability to sue and collect compensation from doctors who commit malpractice, they say it is unfair to limit their right to sue and collect compensation from HMOs and health insurers.

Whats more, ask most doctors and theyll tell you they want to limit compensation for injured patients to $250,000 for non-economic losses like permanent disfigurement, loss of a limb, blindness, or pain and suffering. Yet doctors are among the highest paid professionals in the country. When one looks at publicly available annual salary records for some of the critics of injured patients who sue, one finds that they earn well over $250,000 a year without any pain or suffering at all.
More - http://www.centerjd.org/archives/issues-facts/MDHypocrites.pdf


----------



## GWV5903

Bfgrn said:


> GWV5903 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Insurance: Top Recipients
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you miss the fact that Lawyers gave $44MM??
> 
> And Insurance gave $7.2MM...
> 
> There in lies the problem, it's pretty simple...
> 
> Oh and BTW they gave most of it to DEMS...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *I am not surprised lawyers favor Democrats*. They side with the party that believes in justice.
> 
> The irony is conservative 'crow' about less government intervention but they have NO problem governing by dictum and fiat...a.k.a. TORT reform.
> 
> Why are people on the right so willing to undermine our justice system for doctors, corporations and polluters? If someone files a lawsuit, shouldn't a jury of our peers be able to determine if it is valid or frivolous?
> 
> Tort reform IS government intervention. It's bureaucrats dictating what a jury of our peers can or can't do. It undermines our justice system and gives the big guy a baseball bat he can use to beat the final measure of injustice into the little guy. Not only does the person or family suffer from the results of the doctor mistake or negligence, or the corporate toxins or dangerous product, the person and family must also endure the measure of the final insult: 'Yes, you were gravely wronged, but you will not be justly compensated'
> 
> Justice does NOT mean a jury of citizens with a vested interest, bias or conflict of interest. It means a fair trial by a jury of citizens withOUT a vested interest, bias or conflict of interest.
> 
> Tort reform is an effort to LIMIT or CAP the amount of compensation a person or family can receive, no matter how egregious and devastating the MALpractice is to a patient. I remember watching on C-Span in 2005 as Republicans argue on the floor of the Senate to limit the amount of compensation a person or family can receive to $250,000 as a lifetime amount. THAT is bureaucrats dictating what a jury of our peers can or can't do. It means no matter the circumstances and REAL cost to a family who would have to take care of a child or family member from birth to grave, bureaucrats dictate they can only receive $250,000, a measly amount if you amortize that over a human beings lifetime and the exorbitant costs that can be incurred. A JURY should decide the amount of compensation based on the facts of the case, not some Politburo. THAT is how our justice system is supposed to work, every citizen has the right to a FAIR trial.
> 
> It amazes me how you folks on the right say you are against government intervention into people's lives; then you embrace the most egregious and overbearing government intervention into people's lives and bureaucrats dictating that is right out of the Soviet Union.
> 
> BTW, the same doctors have no problem taking HMO's and insurance companies to court.
> 
> Take a look at the record of a host of state medical societies, often joined by the American Medical Association (AMA), who complain about lawsuits and argue that compensation to injured patients should be severely limited. Yet when an HMO, a health insurer or even an auto insurance company has treated doctors unfairly, these doctors go straight to court. And to top it off, while lobbying to limit patients ability to sue and collect compensation from doctors who commit malpractice, they say it is unfair to limit their right to sue and collect compensation from HMOs and health insurers.
> 
> Whats more, ask most doctors and theyll tell you they want to limit compensation for injured patients to $250,000 for non-economic losses like permanent disfigurement, loss of a limb, blindness, or pain and suffering. Yet doctors are among the highest paid professionals in the country. When one looks at publicly available annual salary records for some of the critics of injured patients who sue, one finds that they earn well over $250,000 a year without any pain or suffering at all.
> More - http://www.centerjd.org/archives/issues-facts/MDHypocrites.pdf
Click to expand...


I am not surprised either, if I was a (scumbag ambulance chaser) lawyer I would throw my support over to the Dems too, they keep padding my pockets with millions...

40% of that settlement goes to the little orphans society of they don't give a f'ing dam... 

Koo Koo, Koo Koo, Koo Koo, Koo Koo...

Yeah we have never ever had frivolous lawsuits, no way that's going to happen...

Johns Hopkins malpractice award - Baltimore Sun

So over 30 states have adopted Medical Malpractice Legislation Caps...

States with no medical malpractice damages cap - Nolo.com


----------



## Bfgrn

GWV5903 said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GWV5903 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you miss the fact that Lawyers gave $44MM??
> 
> And Insurance gave $7.2MM...
> 
> There in lies the problem, it's pretty simple...
> 
> Oh and BTW they gave most of it to DEMS...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I am not surprised lawyers favor Democrats*. They side with the party that believes in justice.
> 
> The irony is conservative 'crow' about less government intervention but they have NO problem governing by dictum and fiat...a.k.a. TORT reform.
> 
> Why are people on the right so willing to undermine our justice system for doctors, corporations and polluters? If someone files a lawsuit, shouldn't a jury of our peers be able to determine if it is valid or frivolous?
> 
> Tort reform IS government intervention. It's bureaucrats dictating what a jury of our peers can or can't do. It undermines our justice system and gives the big guy a baseball bat he can use to beat the final measure of injustice into the little guy. Not only does the person or family suffer from the results of the doctor mistake or negligence, or the corporate toxins or dangerous product, the person and family must also endure the measure of the final insult: 'Yes, you were gravely wronged, but you will not be justly compensated'
> 
> Justice does NOT mean a jury of citizens with a vested interest, bias or conflict of interest. It means a fair trial by a jury of citizens withOUT a vested interest, bias or conflict of interest.
> 
> Tort reform is an effort to LIMIT or CAP the amount of compensation a person or family can receive, no matter how egregious and devastating the MALpractice is to a patient. I remember watching on C-Span in 2005 as Republicans argue on the floor of the Senate to limit the amount of compensation a person or family can receive to $250,000 as a lifetime amount. THAT is bureaucrats dictating what a jury of our peers can or can't do. It means no matter the circumstances and REAL cost to a family who would have to take care of a child or family member from birth to grave, bureaucrats dictate they can only receive $250,000, a measly amount if you amortize that over a human beings lifetime and the exorbitant costs that can be incurred. A JURY should decide the amount of compensation based on the facts of the case, not some Politburo. THAT is how our justice system is supposed to work, every citizen has the right to a FAIR trial.
> 
> It amazes me how you folks on the right say you are against government intervention into people's lives; then you embrace the most egregious and overbearing government intervention into people's lives and bureaucrats dictating that is right out of the Soviet Union.
> 
> BTW, the same doctors have no problem taking HMO's and insurance companies to court.
> 
> Take a look at the record of a host of state medical societies, often joined by the American Medical Association (AMA), who complain about lawsuits and argue that compensation to injured patients should be severely limited. Yet when an HMO, a health insurer or even an auto insurance company has treated doctors unfairly, these doctors go straight to court. And to top it off, while lobbying to limit patients ability to sue and collect compensation from doctors who commit malpractice, they say it is unfair to limit their right to sue and collect compensation from HMOs and health insurers.
> 
> Whats more, ask most doctors and theyll tell you they want to limit compensation for injured patients to $250,000 for non-economic losses like permanent disfigurement, loss of a limb, blindness, or pain and suffering. Yet doctors are among the highest paid professionals in the country. When one looks at publicly available annual salary records for some of the critics of injured patients who sue, one finds that they earn well over $250,000 a year without any pain or suffering at all.
> More - http://www.centerjd.org/archives/issues-facts/MDHypocrites.pdf
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not surprised either, if I was a (scumbag ambulance chaser) lawyer I would throw my support over to the Dems too, they keep padding my pockets with millions...
> 
> 40% of that settlement goes to the little orphans society of they don't give a f'ing dam...
> 
> Koo Koo, Koo Koo, Koo Koo, Koo Koo...
> 
> Yeah we have never ever had frivolous lawsuits, no way that's going to happen...
> 
> Johns Hopkins malpractice award - Baltimore Sun
> 
> So over 30 states have adopted Medical Malpractice Legislation Caps...
> 
> States with no medical malpractice damages cap - Nolo.com
Click to expand...


Lawyers are scumbags? Who the fuck do you think writes tort reform laws, Snow White and the 7 Dwarfs?

Tort reform IS STATISM. It is government overreach, intrusion and a violation of OUR civil liberties. It is one branch of government undermining another. It is dictating to a jury of OUR peers what is fair. It undermines and removes PERSONAL responsibility from the perpetrator TO the victim. It is UN American and it is the work of corporate lawyers and lobbyists that have NO regard for YOU, ME or our families.

The so-called "Tort Reform Movement" started as an internal project of the Philip Morris (PM) tobacco company around 1992 and turned into a large-scale, corporate-funded effort led primarily by Philip Morris to alter the American judicial system in favor of big business. A privileged and confidential PM document titled Tort Reform Project Budget from 1995-96 shows how well-funded and ambitious PM's "Tort Reform" project was; it lists all the consultants, organizations, individuals and law firms the industry funded to promote alteration of the legal system in 1995-96.

In 2002, the consumer advocacy organization Center for Justice & Democracy investigated the roots of the U.S. "tort reform" movement and found that the "movement" was actually a massive national PR effort initiated by the tobacco industry to reduce or eliminate exposure to liability law suits. The report was co-released by CJ&D and Public Citizen. The tobacco industry enlisted the participation of other industries like chemical manufacturers, pharmaceutical companies, automobile manufacturers, insurance companies and others to alter the U.S. system of laws ("tort") that give sick and injured consumers access the court system. The movement has been propelled ahead by massive tobacco industry funding; the same PM budget document reveals that the tobacco industry alone budgeted $21.8 million for the corporate tort reform effort in the single year of 1995.
wiki 

Liberals believe people are basically good, conservatives believe people are basically evil. 
Liberals believe in raising people up, conservatives believe in pushing people down.
Liberals believe in encouragement, conservatives believe in scorn.
*Liberals always stand up for the little guy, conservatives always stand up for the big guy.*

Thanks for proving my point...


----------



## Sarah G

Lumpy 1 said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Commercial Banks: Top Recipients
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oil & Gas: Top Recipients
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised to find out that this Iran deal has quite a bit to do with Obama/Democrats sucking up to the oil companies..
Click to expand...


I really think their motives are more true than that.  I'd look at world peace being a big part of it and to a lessor extent, Obama's legacy.

John Kerry did a bang up job.  This deal is unprecedented, they did good.


----------



## GWV5903

Bfgrn said:


> GWV5903 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I am not surprised lawyers favor Democrats*. They side with the party that believes in justice.
> 
> The irony is conservative 'crow' about less government intervention but they have NO problem governing by dictum and fiat...a.k.a. TORT reform.
> 
> Why are people on the right so willing to undermine our justice system for doctors, corporations and polluters? If someone files a lawsuit, shouldn't a jury of our peers be able to determine if it is valid or frivolous?
> 
> Tort reform IS government intervention. It's bureaucrats dictating what a jury of our peers can or can't do. It undermines our justice system and gives the big guy a baseball bat he can use to beat the final measure of injustice into the little guy. Not only does the person or family suffer from the results of the doctor mistake or negligence, or the corporate toxins or dangerous product, the person and family must also endure the measure of the final insult: 'Yes, you were gravely wronged, but you will not be justly compensated'
> 
> Justice does NOT mean a jury of citizens with a vested interest, bias or conflict of interest. It means a fair trial by a jury of citizens withOUT a vested interest, bias or conflict of interest.
> 
> Tort reform is an effort to LIMIT or CAP the amount of compensation a person or family can receive, no matter how egregious and devastating the MALpractice is to a patient. I remember watching on C-Span in 2005 as Republicans argue on the floor of the Senate to limit the amount of compensation a person or family can receive to $250,000 as a lifetime amount. THAT is bureaucrats dictating what a jury of our peers can or can't do. It means no matter the circumstances and REAL cost to a family who would have to take care of a child or family member from birth to grave, bureaucrats dictate they can only receive $250,000, a measly amount if you amortize that over a human beings lifetime and the exorbitant costs that can be incurred. A JURY should decide the amount of compensation based on the facts of the case, not some Politburo. THAT is how our justice system is supposed to work, every citizen has the right to a FAIR trial.
> 
> It amazes me how you folks on the right say you are against government intervention into people's lives; then you embrace the most egregious and overbearing government intervention into people's lives and bureaucrats dictating that is right out of the Soviet Union.
> 
> BTW, the same doctors have no problem taking HMO's and insurance companies to court.
> 
> Take a look at the record of a host of state medical societies, often joined by the American Medical Association (AMA), who complain about lawsuits and argue that compensation to injured patients should be severely limited. Yet when an HMO, a health insurer or even an auto insurance company has treated doctors unfairly, these doctors go straight to court. And to top it off, while lobbying to limit patients ability to sue and collect compensation from doctors who commit malpractice, they say it is unfair to limit their right to sue and collect compensation from HMOs and health insurers.
> 
> Whats more, ask most doctors and theyll tell you they want to limit compensation for injured patients to $250,000 for non-economic losses like permanent disfigurement, loss of a limb, blindness, or pain and suffering. Yet doctors are among the highest paid professionals in the country. When one looks at publicly available annual salary records for some of the critics of injured patients who sue, one finds that they earn well over $250,000 a year without any pain or suffering at all.
> More - http://www.centerjd.org/archives/issues-facts/MDHypocrites.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not surprised either, if I was a (scumbag ambulance chaser) lawyer I would throw my support over to the Dems too, they keep padding my pockets with millions...
> 
> 40% of that settlement goes to the little orphans society of they don't give a f'ing dam...
> 
> Koo Koo, Koo Koo, Koo Koo, Koo Koo...
> 
> Yeah we have never ever had frivolous lawsuits, no way that's going to happen...
> 
> Johns Hopkins malpractice award - Baltimore Sun
> 
> So over 30 states have adopted Medical Malpractice Legislation Caps...
> 
> States with no medical malpractice damages cap - Nolo.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lawyers are scumbags? Who the fuck do you think writes tort reform laws, Snow White and the 7 Dwarfs?
> 
> Tort reform IS STATISM. It is government overreach, intrusion and a violation of OUR civil liberties. It is one branch of government undermining another. It is dictating to a jury of OUR peers what is fair. It undermines and removes PERSONAL responsibility from the perpetrator TO the victim. It is UN American and it is the work of corporate lawyers and lobbyists that have NO regard for YOU, ME or our families.
> 
> The so-called "Tort Reform Movement" started as an internal project of the Philip Morris (PM) tobacco company around 1992 and turned into a large-scale, corporate-funded effort led primarily by Philip Morris to alter the American judicial system in favor of big business. A privileged and confidential PM document titled Tort Reform Project Budget from 1995-96 shows how well-funded and ambitious PM's "Tort Reform" project was; it lists all the consultants, organizations, individuals and law firms the industry funded to promote alteration of the legal system in 1995-96.
> 
> In 2002, the consumer advocacy organization Center for Justice & Democracy investigated the roots of the U.S. "tort reform" movement and found that the "movement" was actually a massive national PR effort initiated by the tobacco industry to reduce or eliminate exposure to liability law suits. The report was co-released by CJ&D and Public Citizen. The tobacco industry enlisted the participation of other industries like chemical manufacturers, pharmaceutical companies, automobile manufacturers, insurance companies and others to alter the U.S. system of laws ("tort") that give sick and injured consumers access the court system. The movement has been propelled ahead by massive tobacco industry funding; the same PM budget document reveals that the tobacco industry alone budgeted $21.8 million for the corporate tort reform effort in the single year of 1995.
> wiki
> 
> Liberals believe people are basically good, conservatives believe people are basically evil.
> Liberals believe in raising people up, conservatives believe in pushing people down.
> Liberals believe in encouragement, conservatives believe in scorn.
> *Liberals always stand up for the little guy, conservatives always stand up for the big guy.*
> 
> Thanks for proving my point...
Click to expand...


Tort Reform started in 1992??? Better check your facts, Wiki is not your friend...

Yes, you can bury most of them at the bottom of the sea, DC is full of them, you can start there...

The intent for our lawmakers was not to be a lawyer, believe what you want, they are scumbags...

I believe idiots are evil, that does not include you BTW...

I believe people need to learn how to provide for themselves and not to expect everyone else to carry them...

I believe in supporting good results and behavior...

I believe in backing the right person, no matter their size...


----------



## Bfgrn

GWV5903 said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GWV5903 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not surprised either, if I was a (scumbag ambulance chaser) lawyer I would throw my support over to the Dems too, they keep padding my pockets with millions...
> 
> 40% of that settlement goes to the little orphans society of they don't give a f'ing dam...
> 
> Koo Koo, Koo Koo, Koo Koo, Koo Koo...
> 
> Yeah we have never ever had frivolous lawsuits, no way that's going to happen...
> 
> Johns Hopkins malpractice award - Baltimore Sun
> 
> So over 30 states have adopted Medical Malpractice Legislation Caps...
> 
> States with no medical malpractice damages cap - Nolo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lawyers are scumbags? Who the fuck do you think writes tort reform laws, Snow White and the 7 Dwarfs?
> 
> Tort reform IS STATISM. It is government overreach, intrusion and a violation of OUR civil liberties. It is one branch of government undermining another. It is dictating to a jury of OUR peers what is fair. It undermines and removes PERSONAL responsibility from the perpetrator TO the victim. It is UN American and it is the work of corporate lawyers and lobbyists that have NO regard for YOU, ME or our families.
> 
> The so-called "Tort Reform Movement" started as an internal project of the Philip Morris (PM) tobacco company around 1992 and turned into a large-scale, corporate-funded effort led primarily by Philip Morris to alter the American judicial system in favor of big business. A privileged and confidential PM document titled Tort Reform Project Budget from 1995-96 shows how well-funded and ambitious PM's "Tort Reform" project was; it lists all the consultants, organizations, individuals and law firms the industry funded to promote alteration of the legal system in 1995-96.
> 
> In 2002, the consumer advocacy organization Center for Justice & Democracy investigated the roots of the U.S. "tort reform" movement and found that the "movement" was actually a massive national PR effort initiated by the tobacco industry to reduce or eliminate exposure to liability law suits. The report was co-released by CJ&D and Public Citizen. The tobacco industry enlisted the participation of other industries like chemical manufacturers, pharmaceutical companies, automobile manufacturers, insurance companies and others to alter the U.S. system of laws ("tort") that give sick and injured consumers access the court system. The movement has been propelled ahead by massive tobacco industry funding; the same PM budget document reveals that the tobacco industry alone budgeted $21.8 million for the corporate tort reform effort in the single year of 1995.
> wiki
> 
> Liberals believe people are basically good, conservatives believe people are basically evil.
> Liberals believe in raising people up, conservatives believe in pushing people down.
> Liberals believe in encouragement, conservatives believe in scorn.
> *Liberals always stand up for the little guy, conservatives always stand up for the big guy.*
> 
> Thanks for proving my point...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tort Reform started in 1992??? Better check your facts, Wiki is not your friend...
> 
> Yes, you can bury most of them at the bottom of the sea, DC is full of them, you can start there...
> 
> The intent for our lawmakers was not to be a lawyer, believe what you want, they are scumbags...
> 
> I believe idiots are evil, that does not include you BTW...
> 
> I believe people need to learn how to provide for themselves and not to expect everyone else to carry them...
> 
> I believe in supporting good results and behavior...
> 
> I believe in backing the right person, no matter their size...
Click to expand...


Justice is itself the great standing policy of civil society; and any eminent departure from it, under any circumstances, lies under the suspicion of being no policy at all.
Edmund Burke

The big picture is why are people on the right so willing to undermine our justice system for doctors, corporations and polluters? If someone files a lawsuit, shouldn't a jury of our peers be able to determine if it is valid or frivolous?

Right now, my country looks nothing like the America I grew up in. The America the liberal era created. The whole of human history has been dominated by aristocracies and plutocracies. Power and wealth have always held advantage over the common man.

What made America truly 'exceptional' was not our Army or our Navy. It was the growth and success of the most robust middle class in history. It's genesis was the New Deal and it blossomed and thrived through the Great Society. It made America the envy of the world, the 'city upon the hill'. But when power and wealth decide to fight back, and they have one party in their pocket, the outcome is not in doubt unless the people stay informed and stand up for their God given rights.

Much of that 'exceptional' America has been erased by 30+ years of conservative policies that were a concentrated assault on the middle guy and the little guy. This conservative malfeasance has neither built nor created anything. But the destruction it caused can only be ignored by someone who is so brainwashed that they vote for more of it.

Tort reform IS government intervention. It's bureaucrats dictating what a jury of our peers can or can't do. It undermines our justice system and gives the big guy a baseball bat he can use to beat the final measure of injustice into the little guy. Not only does the person or family suffer from the results of the doctor mistake or negligence, or the corporate toxins or dangerous product, the person and family must also endure the measure of the final insult: 'Yes, you were gravely wronged, but you will not justly compensated' 

The whole argument by Republicans on 'tort' reform falls apart and exposes their 'for the elite' agenda. It violates their 'absolutes'. It is government intervention, it ignores states rights and it IS 'statism'. When you start looking into tort reform you find out it has been an ongoing campaign by Republicans, the Chamber of Commerce, insurance companies and manufacturers of dangerous products and chemicals to protect corporations, doctors and hospitals from facing personal responsibility when THEY screw up or are guilty of neglect.

U.S. Chamber of Commerce Continues to Beat Tort Reform Drum

By Bret Hanna - Attorney

There are a number of good sources of information which debunk the myths of tort reform perpetuated by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce who put the interests of corporations before those of the people injured by their corporate negligence and greed. One such source is a blog post by Injury Board member attorney Wayne Parsons which pulls together a great deal of authoritative information on the topic. Others include Blocking the Courthouse Door: How the Republican Party and Its Corporate Allies Are Taking Away Your Right to Sue [obtained by members or by purchase only], The Myth of the Litigation Crisis; Corporate Wolves in Victims' Clothing, and PRI's Corporate-Funded Tort Reform Study Proves Tort Reform Doesn't Work.

The History Of Tort Reform

It is no secret that, for more than three decades, business interests have invested billions of dollars to sell the public a distorted view of a legal system that is justifiably envied throughout the world. They say rampant litigiousness requires tort reform that restricts the legal rights of injured people, not those of businesses suing businesses, which account for most litigation. What they seek, really, is corporate welfare-assurance that their misdeeds will be paid for not by them, but by others. - Richard H. Middleton, Jr., Past President of the American Association of Justice

Joanne Doroshow, one the best friends the American consumer has ever had exposes one of the great conspiracies of the 2oth century: the tort reform scam - the BIG lie that started long ago:

For the last 15 years, insurance companies, manufacturers of dangerous products and chemicals, the tobacco industry and other major industries have been engaged in a nationwide assault on the civil justice system. In nearly every state and in Congress, corporations and their insurers have waged a relentless campaign to change the laws that give sick and injured consumers the ability to hold their offenders responsible for the injuries they cause. . .

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

247 Americans Die Every Day from Doctors not Washing Their Hands


A Conversation With Dr. Peter J. Pronovost
[URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/09/science/09conv.html?hpw"]Doctor Leads Quest for Safer Ways to Care for Patients[/URL]

Q. WASH YOUR HANDS? DONT DOCTORS AUTOMATICALLY DO THAT?

A. National estimates are that we wash our hands 30 to 40 percent of the time. Hospitals working on improving their safety records are up to 70 percent. Still, that means that 30 percent of the time, people are not doing it.

At Hopkins, we tested the checklist idea in the surgical intensive care unit. It helped, though you still needed to do more to lower the infection rate. You needed to make sure that supplies  disinfectant, drapery, catheters  were near and handy. We observed that these items were stored in eight different places within the hospital, and that was why, in emergencies, people often skipped steps. So we gathered all the necessary materials and placed them together on an accessible cart. We assigned someone to be in charge of the cart and to always make sure it was stocked. We also instituted independent safeguards to make certain that the checklist was followed.

We said: Doctors, we know youre busy and sometimes forget to wash your hands. So nurses, you are to make sure the doctors do it. And if they dont, you are empowered to stop takeoff on a procedure.

Q. HOW DID THAT FLY?

A. You would have thought I started World War III! The nurses said it wasnt their job to monitor doctors; the doctors said no nurse was going to stop takeoff. I said: Doctors, we know were not perfect, and we can forget important safety measures. And nurses, how could you permit a doctor to start if they havent washed their hands? I told the nurses they could page me day or night, and Id support them. Well, in four years time, weve gotten infection rates down to almost zero in the I.C.U.

We then took this to 100 intensive care units at 70 hospitals in Michigan. We measured their infection rates, implemented the checklist, worked to get a more cooperative culture so that nurses could speak up. And again, we got it down to a near zero. Weve been encouraging hospitals around the country to set up similar checklist systems. 

Q. WHAT EXACTLY WAS WRONG HERE?

A. As at many hospitals, we had dysfunctional teamwork because of an exceedingly hierarchal culture. When confrontations occurred, the problem was rarely framed in terms of what was best for the patient. It was: Im right. Im more senior than you. Dont tell me what to do.

Doctor-Caused Disease

HOSPITAL INFECTIONS

In the 1840's Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis directed a teaching hospital in Vienna, where 75% of the women giving birth were dying of puerperal fever. He observed that doctors went from dissecting cadavers to delivering babies without washing their hands. Dr. Semmelweis made the "radical" policy change of requiring doctors to wash their hands before delivery a baby. An amazing thing happened - the mortality rate drop fifteen-fold. Unfortunately, his arrogant colleagues couldn't see the connection, so they dismissed him and ostracized him. The rejection ultimately drove Semmelweis to death in an insane asylum - another great moment in the history of iatrogenic disease.

But doctors are enlightened nowadays about sanitation, aren't they? A 1981 study of washing habits in intensive care units found that only 28% of the doctors washed between patients in a teaching hospital and only 14% washed in the private hospital! Dr. Mendelsohn noted:

. . . the sanitary practices of the medical personnel are often abominable and the hospital itself is probably the most germ-laden facility in town.

Your chances of getting an infection in the hospital are one in 20 with 15,000 people dying annually from hospital-acquired infections.

Doctor and Patient
Why Dont Doctors Wash Their Hands More? 
By PAULINE W. CHEN, M.D.
Published: September 17, 2009 

Over the last 30 years, despite countless efforts at change, poor hand hygiene has continued to contribute to the high rates of infections acquired in hospitals, clinics and other health care settings. According to the World Health Organization, these infections affect as many as 1.7 million patients in the United States each year, racking up an annual cost of $6.5 billion and contributing to more than 90,000 deaths annually.


"Harry Truman once said, 'There are 14 or 15 million Americans who have the resources to have representatives in Washington to protect their interests, and that the interests of the great mass of the other people - the 150 or 160 million - is the responsibility of the president of the United States, and I propose to fulfill it.'"
President John F. Kennedy


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Sarah G said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Commercial Banks: Top Recipients
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oil & Gas: Top Recipients
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised to find out that this Iran deal has quite a bit to do with Obama/Democrats sucking up to the oil companies..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I really think their motives are more true than that.  I'd look at world peace being a big part of it and to a lessor extent, Obama's legacy.
> 
> John Kerry did a bang up job.  This deal is unprecedented, they did good.
Click to expand...


obama and Iraq will be just like Clinton and N. Korea


----------



## GWV5903

Bfgrn said:


> GWV5903 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lawyers are scumbags? Who the fuck do you think writes tort reform laws, Snow White and the 7 Dwarfs?
> 
> Tort reform IS STATISM. It is government overreach, intrusion and a violation of OUR civil liberties. It is one branch of government undermining another. It is dictating to a jury of OUR peers what is fair. It undermines and removes PERSONAL responsibility from the perpetrator TO the victim. It is UN American and it is the work of corporate lawyers and lobbyists that have NO regard for YOU, ME or our families.
> 
> The so-called "Tort Reform Movement" started as an internal project of the Philip Morris (PM) tobacco company around 1992 and turned into a large-scale, corporate-funded effort led primarily by Philip Morris to alter the American judicial system in favor of big business. A privileged and confidential PM document titled Tort Reform Project Budget from 1995-96 shows how well-funded and ambitious PM's "Tort Reform" project was; it lists all the consultants, organizations, individuals and law firms the industry funded to promote alteration of the legal system in 1995-96.
> 
> In 2002, the consumer advocacy organization Center for Justice & Democracy investigated the roots of the U.S. "tort reform" movement and found that the "movement" was actually a massive national PR effort initiated by the tobacco industry to reduce or eliminate exposure to liability law suits. The report was co-released by CJ&D and Public Citizen. The tobacco industry enlisted the participation of other industries like chemical manufacturers, pharmaceutical companies, automobile manufacturers, insurance companies and others to alter the U.S. system of laws ("tort") that give sick and injured consumers access the court system. The movement has been propelled ahead by massive tobacco industry funding; the same PM budget document reveals that the tobacco industry alone budgeted $21.8 million for the corporate tort reform effort in the single year of 1995.
> wiki
> 
> Liberals believe people are basically good, conservatives believe people are basically evil.
> Liberals believe in raising people up, conservatives believe in pushing people down.
> Liberals believe in encouragement, conservatives believe in scorn.
> *Liberals always stand up for the little guy, conservatives always stand up for the big guy.*
> 
> Thanks for proving my point...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tort Reform started in 1992??? Better check your facts, Wiki is not your friend...
> 
> Yes, you can bury most of them at the bottom of the sea, DC is full of them, you can start there...
> 
> The intent for our lawmakers was not to be a lawyer, believe what you want, they are scumbags...
> 
> I believe idiots are evil, that does not include you BTW...
> 
> I believe people need to learn how to provide for themselves and not to expect everyone else to carry them...
> 
> I believe in supporting good results and behavior...
> 
> I believe in backing the right person, no matter their size...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Justice is itself the great standing policy of civil society; and any eminent departure from it, under any circumstances, lies under the suspicion of being no policy at all.
> Edmund Burke
> 
> The big picture is why are people on the right so willing to undermine our justice system for doctors, corporations and polluters? If someone files a lawsuit, shouldn't a jury of our peers be able to determine if it is valid or frivolous?
> 
> Right now, my country looks nothing like the America I grew up in. The America the liberal era created. The whole of human history has been dominated by aristocracies and plutocracies. Power and wealth have always held advantage over the common man.
> 
> What made America truly 'exceptional' was not our Army or our Navy. It was the growth and success of the most robust middle class in history. It's genesis was the New Deal and it blossomed and thrived through the Great Society. It made America the envy of the world, the 'city upon the hill'. But when power and wealth decide to fight back, and they have one party in their pocket, the outcome is not in doubt unless the people stay informed and stand up for their God given rights.
> 
> Much of that 'exceptional' America has been erased by 30+ years of conservative policies that were a concentrated assault on the middle guy and the little guy. This conservative malfeasance has neither built nor created anything. But the destruction it caused can only be ignored by someone who is so brainwashed that they vote for more of it.
> 
> Tort reform IS government intervention. It's bureaucrats dictating what a jury of our peers can or can't do. It undermines our justice system and gives the big guy a baseball bat he can use to beat the final measure of injustice into the little guy. Not only does the person or family suffer from the results of the doctor mistake or negligence, or the corporate toxins or dangerous product, the person and family must also endure the measure of the final insult: 'Yes, you were gravely wronged, but you will not justly compensated'
> 
> The whole argument by Republicans on 'tort' reform falls apart and exposes their 'for the elite' agenda. It violates their 'absolutes'. It is government intervention, it ignores states rights and it IS 'statism'. When you start looking into tort reform you find out it has been an ongoing campaign by Republicans, the Chamber of Commerce, insurance companies and manufacturers of dangerous products and chemicals to protect corporations, doctors and hospitals from facing personal responsibility when THEY screw up or are guilty of neglect.
> 
> U.S. Chamber of Commerce Continues to Beat Tort Reform Drum
> 
> By Bret Hanna - Attorney
> 
> There are a number of good sources of information which debunk the myths of tort reform perpetuated by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce who put the interests of corporations before those of the people injured by their corporate negligence and greed. One such source is a blog post by Injury Board member attorney Wayne Parsons which pulls together a great deal of authoritative information on the topic. Others include Blocking the Courthouse Door: How the Republican Party and Its Corporate Allies Are Taking Away Your Right to Sue [obtained by members or by purchase only], The Myth of the Litigation Crisis; Corporate Wolves in Victims' Clothing, and PRI's Corporate-Funded Tort Reform Study Proves Tort Reform Doesn't Work.
> 
> The History Of Tort Reform
> 
> It is no secret that, for more than three decades, business interests have invested billions of dollars to sell the public a distorted view of a legal system that is justifiably envied throughout the world. They say rampant litigiousness requires tort reform that restricts the legal rights of injured people, not those of businesses suing businesses, which account for most litigation. What they seek, really, is corporate welfare-assurance that their misdeeds will be paid for not by them, but by others. - Richard H. Middleton, Jr., Past President of the American Association of Justice
> 
> Joanne Doroshow, one the best friends the American consumer has ever had exposes one of the great conspiracies of the 2oth century: the tort reform scam - the BIG lie that started long ago:
> 
> For the last 15 years, insurance companies, manufacturers of dangerous products and chemicals, the tobacco industry and other major industries have been engaged in a nationwide assault on the civil justice system. In nearly every state and in Congress, corporations and their insurers have waged a relentless campaign to change the laws that give sick and injured consumers the ability to hold their offenders responsible for the injuries they cause. . .
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 247 Americans Die Every Day from Doctors not Washing Their Hands
> 
> 
> A Conversation With Dr. Peter J. Pronovost
> [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/09/science/09conv.html?hpw"]Doctor Leads Quest for Safer Ways to Care for Patients[/URL]
> 
> Q. WASH YOUR HANDS? DONT DOCTORS AUTOMATICALLY DO THAT?
> 
> A. National estimates are that we wash our hands 30 to 40 percent of the time. Hospitals working on improving their safety records are up to 70 percent. Still, that means that 30 percent of the time, people are not doing it.
> 
> At Hopkins, we tested the checklist idea in the surgical intensive care unit. It helped, though you still needed to do more to lower the infection rate. You needed to make sure that supplies  disinfectant, drapery, catheters  were near and handy. We observed that these items were stored in eight different places within the hospital, and that was why, in emergencies, people often skipped steps. So we gathered all the necessary materials and placed them together on an accessible cart. We assigned someone to be in charge of the cart and to always make sure it was stocked. We also instituted independent safeguards to make certain that the checklist was followed.
> 
> We said: Doctors, we know youre busy and sometimes forget to wash your hands. So nurses, you are to make sure the doctors do it. And if they dont, you are empowered to stop takeoff on a procedure.
> 
> Q. HOW DID THAT FLY?
> 
> A. You would have thought I started World War III! The nurses said it wasnt their job to monitor doctors; the doctors said no nurse was going to stop takeoff. I said: Doctors, we know were not perfect, and we can forget important safety measures. And nurses, how could you permit a doctor to start if they havent washed their hands? I told the nurses they could page me day or night, and Id support them. Well, in four years time, weve gotten infection rates down to almost zero in the I.C.U.
> 
> We then took this to 100 intensive care units at 70 hospitals in Michigan. We measured their infection rates, implemented the checklist, worked to get a more cooperative culture so that nurses could speak up. And again, we got it down to a near zero. Weve been encouraging hospitals around the country to set up similar checklist systems.
> 
> Q. WHAT EXACTLY WAS WRONG HERE?
> 
> A. As at many hospitals, we had dysfunctional teamwork because of an exceedingly hierarchal culture. When confrontations occurred, the problem was rarely framed in terms of what was best for the patient. It was: Im right. Im more senior than you. Dont tell me what to do.
> 
> Doctor-Caused Disease
> 
> HOSPITAL INFECTIONS
> 
> In the 1840's Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis directed a teaching hospital in Vienna, where 75% of the women giving birth were dying of puerperal fever. He observed that doctors went from dissecting cadavers to delivering babies without washing their hands. Dr. Semmelweis made the "radical" policy change of requiring doctors to wash their hands before delivery a baby. An amazing thing happened - the mortality rate drop fifteen-fold. Unfortunately, his arrogant colleagues couldn't see the connection, so they dismissed him and ostracized him. The rejection ultimately drove Semmelweis to death in an insane asylum - another great moment in the history of iatrogenic disease.
> 
> But doctors are enlightened nowadays about sanitation, aren't they? A 1981 study of washing habits in intensive care units found that only 28% of the doctors washed between patients in a teaching hospital and only 14% washed in the private hospital! Dr. Mendelsohn noted:
> 
> . . . the sanitary practices of the medical personnel are often abominable and the hospital itself is probably the most germ-laden facility in town.
> 
> Your chances of getting an infection in the hospital are one in 20 with 15,000 people dying annually from hospital-acquired infections.
> 
> Doctor and Patient
> Why Dont Doctors Wash Their Hands More?
> By PAULINE W. CHEN, M.D.
> Published: September 17, 2009
> 
> Over the last 30 years, despite countless efforts at change, poor hand hygiene has continued to contribute to the high rates of infections acquired in hospitals, clinics and other health care settings. According to the World Health Organization, these infections affect as many as 1.7 million patients in the United States each year, racking up an annual cost of $6.5 billion and contributing to more than 90,000 deaths annually.
> 
> 
> "Harry Truman once said, 'There are 14 or 15 million Americans who have the resources to have representatives in Washington to protect their interests, and that the interests of the great mass of the other people - the 150 or 160 million - is the responsibility of the president of the United States, and I propose to fulfill it.'"
> President John F. Kennedy
Click to expand...


There are countless and classic examples of lawsuit abuse, you can deny it forever as far as I am concerned...

We cannot afford it as a free society...


----------



## tinydancer

Bfgrn said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only the right is in violent opposition to those quotes from JFK. They were then.....still are today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck you darlin. Both brothers would have been tea party patriots.
> 
> You best check back on who really hated JFK and backed LBJ to transform America into a welfare country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wonder where you get these idiotic ideas? I would be happy to destroy your bullshit claims.
> 
> Tell you what TD, read through JFK's agenda and bring back all the 'tea party patriots' stuff...
> 
> A big part of LBJ's Great Society was started by President Kennedy and the New Frontier.
> 
> Who was John F. Kennedy? The President who proposed and or planned the following:
> 
> Medicare
> Civil Rights
> The War on Poverty
> *
> Economy*
> 
> The addition of a temporary thirteen-week supplement to jobless benefits,
> 
> The extension of aid to the children of unemployed workers,
> 
> The redevelopment of distressed areas,
> 
> An increase in Social Security payments and the encouragement of earlier retirement,
> 
> An increase in the minimum wage and an extension in coverage,
> 
> The provision of emergency relief to feed grain farmers, and
> 
> The financing of a comprehensive homebuilding and slum clearance program.
> 
> *Labor*
> 
> Amendments to the Fair Labor Standards Act in 1961 greatly expanded the FLSA's scope in the retail trade sector and increased the minimum wage
> 
> An Executive Order was issued (1962) which provided federal employees with collective bargaining rights.
> 
> The Federal Salary Reform Act (1962) established the principle of maintaining federal white-collar wages at a level with those paid to employees performing similar jobs in private enterprises."
> 
> A Postal Service and Federal Employees Salary Act was passed (1962) to reform Federal white-collar statutory salary systems, adjust postal rates, and establish a standard for adjusting annuities under the Civil Service Retirement Act.
> 
> The Contract Work Hours and Safety Standards Act (1962) established standards for hours, overtime compensation, and safety for employees working on federal and federally funded contracts and subcontracts.
> 
> A pilot program was launched to train and place youths in jobs.
> 
> Paid overtime was granted to workers on government financed construction jobs for work in excess of 40 hours.
> 
> *Education*
> 
> Scholarships and student loans were broadened under existing laws by Kennedy, and new means of specialized aid to education were invented or expanded by the president, including an increase in funds for libraries and school lunches, the provision of funds to teach the deaf, the handicapped, the retarded, and the exceptional child, the authorization of literacy training under Manpower Development, the allocation of President funds to stop dropouts, a quadrupling of vocational education, and working together with schools on delinquency. Altogether, these measures attacked serious educational problems and freed up local funds for use on general construction and salaries.
> 
> Various measures were introduced which aided educational television, college dormitories, medical education, and community libraries.
> 
> The Educational Television Facilities Act (1962) provided federal grants for new station construction, enabling in-class-room instructional television to operate in thousands of elementary schools, offering primarily religious instruction, music, and arts.
> 
> The Health Professions Educational Assistance Act (1963) provided $175 million over a three-year period for matching grants for the construction of facilities for teaching physicians, dentists, nurses, podiatrists, optometrists, pharmacists, and other health professionals. The Act also created a loan program of up to $2000 per annum for students of optometry, dentistry, and medicine.
> 
> The Vocational Education Act (1963) significantly increased enrollment in vocational education.
> 
> A law was enacted (1961) to encourage and facilitate the training of teachers of the deaf.
> 
> The Fulbright-Hays Act of 1961 enlarged the scope of the Fulbright program while extending it geographically.
> 
> An estimated one-third of all major New Frontier programs made some form of education a vital element, and the Office of Education called it the most significant legislative period in its hundred-year history.
> 
> *Welfare*
> 
> Unemployment and welfare benefits were expanded.
> 
> In 1961, Social Security benefits were increased by 20% and provision for early retirement was introduced, enabling workers to retire at the age of sixty-two while receiving partial benefits.
> 
> The Social Security Amendments of 1961 permitted male workers to elect early retirement age 62, increased minimum benefits, liberalized the benefit payments to aged widow, widower, or surviving dependent parent, and also liberalized eligibility requirements and the retirement test.
> 
> The 1962 amendments to the Social Security Act authorized the federal government to reimburse states for the provision of social services.
> 
> The School Lunch Act was amended for authority to begin providing free meals in poverty-stricken areas.
> 
> A pilot food stamp program was launched (1961), covering six areas in the United States. In 1962, the program was extended to eighteen areas, feeding 240,000 people.
> 
> The Self-Employed Individuals Tax Retirement Act of 1962 provided self-employed people with a tax postponement for income set aside in qualified pension plans.
> 
> Various school lunch and school milk programs were extended, enabling 700,000 more children to enjoy a hot school lunch and eighty-five thousand more schools, child care centers, and camps to receive fresh milk.
> 
> ADC was extended to whole families (1961).
> 
> Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) replaced the Aid to Dependent Children (ADC) program, as coverage was extended to adults caring for dependent children.
> 
> A major revision of the public welfare laws was carried out, with a $300 million modernization which emphasized rehabilitation instead of relief.
> 
> A temporary antirecession supplement to unemployment compensation was introduced.
> 
> Food distribution to needy Americans was increased. In January 1961, the first executive order issued by Kennedy mandated that the Department of Agriculture increase the quantity and variety of foods donated for needy households. This executive order represented a shift in the Commodity Distribution Programs primary purpose, from surplus disposal to that of providing nutritious foods to low-income households.
> 
> Social Security benefits were extended to an additional five million Americans.
> 
> The Self-Employed Individuals Tax Retirement Act (1962) provided self-employed people with a tax postponement for income set aside in qualified pension plans.
> 
> The Public Welfare Amendments of 1962 provided for greater Federal sharing in the cost of rehabilitative services to applicants, recipients, and persons likely to become applicants for public assistance. It increased the Federal share in the cost of public assistance payments, and permitted the States to combine the various categories into one category. The amendments also made permanent the 1961 amendment which extended aid to dependent children to cover children removed from unsuitable homes.
> 
> Federal funds were made available for the payment of foster care costs for AFDC-eligible children who had come into state custody.
> 
> An act was approved (1963) which extended for one year the period during which responsibility for the placement and foster care of dependent children, under the program of aid to families with dependent children under Title IV of the Social Security Act.
> 
> Federal civil service retirement benefits were index-linked to changes in the Consumer Price Index (1962).
> 
> *Civil rights*
> 
> Various measures were carried out by the Kennedy Justice Department to enforce court orders and existing legislation. The Kennedy Administration promoted a Voter Education Project which led to 688,800 between the 1st of April 1962 and the 1st of November 1964, while the Civil Rights Division brought over forty-two suits in four states in order to secure voting rights for blacks. In addition, Kennedy supported the anti-poll tax amendment, which cleared Congress in September 1962 (although it was not ratified until 1964 as the Twenty-fourth Amendment). As noted by one student of black voting in the South, in relation to the attempts by the Kennedy Administration to promote civil rights, Whereas the Eisenhower lawyers had moved deliberately, the Kennedy-Johnson attorneys pushed the judiciary far more earnestly.
> 
> Executive Order 10925 (issued in 1961) combined the federal employment and government contractor agencies into a unified Committee on Equal Employment opportunity (CEEO). This new committee helped to put an end to segregation and discriminatory employment practices (such as only employing African-Americans for low-skilled jobs) in a number of workplaces across the United States.
> 
> Discrimination in public housing was prohibited.
> 
> The Interstate Commerce Commission made Jim Crow illegal in interstate transportation, having been put under pressure to do so by both the Freedom Riders and the Department of Justice.
> 
> Employment of African-Americans in federal jobs such as in the Post office, the Navy, and the Veterans Administration as a result of the Kennedy Administrations affirmative action policies).
> 
> The Kennedy Administration forbade government contractors from discriminating against any applicant or employee for employment on the grounds of national origin, color, creed, or race.
> 
> The Plan for Progress was launched by the CEEO to persuade large employers to adopt equal opportunity practices. 268 firms with 8 million employees had signed on to this by 1964, while a nationwide study covering the period from May 1961 to June 1963 of 103 corporations showed a Negro gain from 28,940 to 42,738 salaried and from 171,021 to 198,161 hourly paid jobs.
> 
> *Housing*
> 
> The most comprehensive housing and urban renewal program in American history up until that point was carried out, including the first major provisions for middle-income housing, protection of urban open spaces, public mass transit, and private low-income housing.
> 
> Omnibus Housing Bill 1961. In March 1961 Kennedy sent Congress a special message, proposing an ambitious and complex housing program to spur the economy, revitalize cities, and provide affordable housing for middle- and low-income families. The bill proposed spending $3.19 billion and placed major emphasis on improving the existing housing supply, instead of on new housing starts, and creating a cabinet-level Department of Housing and Urban Affairs to oversee the programs. The bill also promised to make the Federal Housing Administration a full partner in urban renewal program by authorizing mortgage loans to finance rehabilitation of homes and urban renewal Committee on housing combined programs for housing, mass transportation, and open space land bills into a single bill.
> 
> Urban renewal grants were increased from $2 to $4 million, while an additional 100,000 units of public housing were constructed.
> 
> Opportunities were provided for coordinated planning of community development: technical assistance to state and local governments.
> 
> Under the Kennedy Administration, there was a change of focus from a wrecker ball approach to small rehabilitation projects in order to preserve existing urban textures.
> 
> Funds for housing for the elderly were increased.
> 
> Title V of the Housing Act was amended (1961) to make nonfarm rural residents eligible for direct housing loans from the Farmers Home Administration. These changes extended the housing program to towns with a population of up to 2,500.
> 
> The Senior Citizens Housing Act (1962) established loans for low-rent apartment projects which were designed to meet the needs of people age 62 and over.
> 
> *Unemployment*
> 
> To help the unemployed, Kennedy broadened the distribution of surplus food, created a pilot Food Stamp program for poor Americans, directed that preference be given to distressed areas in defense contracts, and expanded the services of U.S. Employment Offices.
> 
> Social security benefits were extended to each child whose father was unemployed.
> 
> The first accelerated public works program for areas of unemployment since the New Deal was launched.
> 
> The first full-scale modernization and expansion of the vocational education laws since 1946 were carried out.
> 
> Federal grants were provided to the states enabling them to extend the period covered by unemployment benefit.
> 
> The Manpower Development and Training Act of 1962 authorized a three-year program aimed at retraining workers displaced by new technology. The bill did not exclude employed workers from benefiting and it authorized a training allowance for unemployed participants. Even though 200,000 people were recruited, there was minimal impact, comparatively. The Area Redevelopment Act, a $394 million spending package passed in 1961, followed a strategy of investing in the private sector to stimulate new job creation. It specifically targeted businesses in urban and rural depressed areas and authorized $4.5 million annually over four years for vocational training programs.
> 
> The 1963 amendments to the National Defense Education Act included $731 million in appropriations to states and localities maintaining vocational training programs.
> 
> *Health*
> 
> In 1963 Kennedy, who had a mentally ill sister named Rosemary, submitted the nation's first Presidential special message to Congress on mental health issues. Congress quickly passed the Mental Retardation Facilities and Community Mental Health Centers Construction Act (P.L. 88-164), beginning a new era in Federal support for mental health services. The National Institute of Mental Health assumed responsibility for monitoring community mental health centers programs. This measure was a great success as there was a sixfold increase in people using Mental Health facilities.
> 
> A Medical Health Bill for the Aged (later known as Medicare) was proposed, but Congress failed to enact it.
> 
> The Community Health Services and Facilities Act (1961) increased the amount of funds available for nursing home construction and extended the research and demonstration grant program to other medical facilities.
> 
> The Health Services for Agricultural Migratory Workers Act (1962) established a program of federal grants for family clinics and other health services for migrant workers and their families.
> 
> The first major amendments to the food and drug safety laws since 1938 were carried out. The Drug Amendments of 1962 amended the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act (1938) by strengthening the provisions related to the regulation of therapeutic drugs. The Act required evidence that new drugs proposed for marketing were both safe and effective, and required improved manufacturing processes and procedures.
> 
> The responsibilities of the Food and Drug Administration were significantly enlarged by the Kefauver-Harris Drug Amendments (1962).
> 
> The Vaccination Assistance Act (1962) provided for the vaccination of millions of children against a number of diseases.
> 
> The Social Security Act Amendments of 1963 improved medical services for crippled children and established a new project grant program to improve prenatal care for women from low income families with very high risks of mental retardation and other birth defects. Authorizations for grants to the states under the Maternal and Child Health and Crippled Children's programs were also increased and a research grant program was added.
> 
> The Mental Retardation Facilities Construction Act of 1963 authorized federal support for the construction of university-affiliated training facilities, mental retardation research centers, and community service facilities for adults and children with mental retardation.
> 
> *Equal rights for women*
> 
> The Presidents Commission on the Status of Women was an advisory commission established on December 14, 1961, by Kennedy to investigate questions regarding women's equality in education, in the workplace, and under the law. The commission, chaired by Eleanor Roosevelt until her death in 1962, was composed of 26 members including legislators and philanthropists who were active in women's rights issues. The main purpose of the committee was to document and examine employment policies in place for women. The commission's final report, American Woman (also known as the Peterson Report after the Commission's second chair, Esther Peterson), was issued in October 1963 and documented widespread discrimination against women in the workplace. Among the practices addressed by the group were labor laws pertaining to hours and wages, the quality of legal representation for women, the lack of education and counseling for working women, and federal insurance and tax laws that affected women's incomes. Recommendations included affordable child care for all income levels, hiring practices that promoted equal opportunity for women, and paid maternity leave.
> 
> In early 1960s, full-time working women were paid on average 59 percent of the earnings of their male counterparts. In order to eliminate some forms of sex-based pay discrimination, Kennedy signed the Equal Pay Act into law on June 10, 1963. During the law's first ten years, 171,000 employees received back pay totaling about 84 million dollars.
> 
> *Environment*
> 
> The Clean Air Act (1963) expanded the powers of the federal government in preventing and controlling air pollution.
> 
> The first major additions to the National Park System since 1946 were made, which included the preservation of wilderness areas and a fund for future acquisitions.
> 
> The water pollution prevention program was doubled.
> 
> More aid was provided to localities to combat water pollution.
> 
> The Rivers and Harbors Act of 1962 reiterated and expanded upon previous authorizations for outdoor recreation.
> 
> *Crime*
> 
> Under Kennedy, the first significant package of anti crime bills since 1934 were passed. Amongst the Kennedy Administration's anti crime measures included the Juvenile Delinquency and Youth Offenses Control Act, which was signed into law on September 22, 1961. This program aimed to prevent youth from committing delinquent acts. In 1963, 288 mobsters were brought to trial by a team that was headed by Kennedy's brother, Robert.
> 
> wiki
Click to expand...


Most of what you have put out there and failed miserably at dividing is the LBJ agenda vs Jacks.

You have put out LBJ's under the guise of Kennedy. I will not; I shall not have it.


----------



## tinydancer

Look, blather on all you want. 

Signature Obamacare is going down in flames. I'm going to enjoy every freaking second of the flame out because I warned you.

Take your midol and hang on to your sinking sebelius ship.


----------



## Bfgrn

tinydancer said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck you darlin. Both brothers would have been tea party patriots.
> 
> You best check back on who really hated JFK and backed LBJ to transform America into a welfare country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder where you get these idiotic ideas? I would be happy to destroy your bullshit claims.
> 
> Tell you what TD, read through JFK's agenda and bring back all the 'tea party patriots' stuff...
> 
> A big part of LBJ's Great Society was started by President Kennedy and the New Frontier.
> 
> Who was John F. Kennedy? The President who proposed and or planned the following:
> 
> Medicare
> Civil Rights
> The War on Poverty
> *
> Economy*
> 
> The addition of a temporary thirteen-week supplement to jobless benefits,
> 
> The extension of aid to the children of unemployed workers,
> 
> The redevelopment of distressed areas,
> 
> An increase in Social Security payments and the encouragement of earlier retirement,
> 
> An increase in the minimum wage and an extension in coverage,
> 
> The provision of emergency relief to feed grain farmers, and
> 
> The financing of a comprehensive homebuilding and slum clearance program.
> 
> *Labor*
> 
> Amendments to the Fair Labor Standards Act in 1961 greatly expanded the FLSA's scope in the retail trade sector and increased the minimum wage
> 
> An Executive Order was issued (1962) which provided federal employees with collective bargaining rights.
> 
> The Federal Salary Reform Act (1962) established the principle of maintaining federal white-collar wages at a level with those paid to employees performing similar jobs in private enterprises."
> 
> A Postal Service and Federal Employees Salary Act was passed (1962) to reform Federal white-collar statutory salary systems, adjust postal rates, and establish a standard for adjusting annuities under the Civil Service Retirement Act.
> 
> The Contract Work Hours and Safety Standards Act (1962) established standards for hours, overtime compensation, and safety for employees working on federal and federally funded contracts and subcontracts.
> 
> A pilot program was launched to train and place youths in jobs.
> 
> Paid overtime was granted to workers on government financed construction jobs for work in excess of 40 hours.
> 
> *Education*
> 
> Scholarships and student loans were broadened under existing laws by Kennedy, and new means of specialized aid to education were invented or expanded by the president, including an increase in funds for libraries and school lunches, the provision of funds to teach the deaf, the handicapped, the retarded, and the exceptional child, the authorization of literacy training under Manpower Development, the allocation of President funds to stop dropouts, a quadrupling of vocational education, and working together with schools on delinquency. Altogether, these measures attacked serious educational problems and freed up local funds for use on general construction and salaries.
> 
> Various measures were introduced which aided educational television, college dormitories, medical education, and community libraries.
> 
> The Educational Television Facilities Act (1962) provided federal grants for new station construction, enabling in-class-room instructional television to operate in thousands of elementary schools, offering primarily religious instruction, music, and arts.
> 
> The Health Professions Educational Assistance Act (1963) provided $175 million over a three-year period for matching grants for the construction of facilities for teaching physicians, dentists, nurses, podiatrists, optometrists, pharmacists, and other health professionals. The Act also created a loan program of up to $2000 per annum for students of optometry, dentistry, and medicine.
> 
> The Vocational Education Act (1963) significantly increased enrollment in vocational education.
> 
> A law was enacted (1961) to encourage and facilitate the training of teachers of the deaf.
> 
> The Fulbright-Hays Act of 1961 enlarged the scope of the Fulbright program while extending it geographically.
> 
> An estimated one-third of all major New Frontier programs made some form of education a vital element, and the Office of Education called it the most significant legislative period in its hundred-year history.
> 
> *Welfare*
> 
> Unemployment and welfare benefits were expanded.
> 
> In 1961, Social Security benefits were increased by 20% and provision for early retirement was introduced, enabling workers to retire at the age of sixty-two while receiving partial benefits.
> 
> The Social Security Amendments of 1961 permitted male workers to elect early retirement age 62, increased minimum benefits, liberalized the benefit payments to aged widow, widower, or surviving dependent parent, and also liberalized eligibility requirements and the retirement test.
> 
> The 1962 amendments to the Social Security Act authorized the federal government to reimburse states for the provision of social services.
> 
> The School Lunch Act was amended for authority to begin providing free meals in poverty-stricken areas.
> 
> A pilot food stamp program was launched (1961), covering six areas in the United States. In 1962, the program was extended to eighteen areas, feeding 240,000 people.
> 
> The Self-Employed Individuals Tax Retirement Act of 1962 provided self-employed people with a tax postponement for income set aside in qualified pension plans.
> 
> Various school lunch and school milk programs were extended, enabling 700,000 more children to enjoy a hot school lunch and eighty-five thousand more schools, child care centers, and camps to receive fresh milk.
> 
> ADC was extended to whole families (1961).
> 
> Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) replaced the Aid to Dependent Children (ADC) program, as coverage was extended to adults caring for dependent children.
> 
> A major revision of the public welfare laws was carried out, with a $300 million modernization which emphasized rehabilitation instead of relief.
> 
> A temporary antirecession supplement to unemployment compensation was introduced.
> 
> Food distribution to needy Americans was increased. In January 1961, the first executive order issued by Kennedy mandated that the Department of Agriculture increase the quantity and variety of foods donated for needy households. This executive order represented a shift in the Commodity Distribution Programs primary purpose, from surplus disposal to that of providing nutritious foods to low-income households.
> 
> Social Security benefits were extended to an additional five million Americans.
> 
> The Self-Employed Individuals Tax Retirement Act (1962) provided self-employed people with a tax postponement for income set aside in qualified pension plans.
> 
> The Public Welfare Amendments of 1962 provided for greater Federal sharing in the cost of rehabilitative services to applicants, recipients, and persons likely to become applicants for public assistance. It increased the Federal share in the cost of public assistance payments, and permitted the States to combine the various categories into one category. The amendments also made permanent the 1961 amendment which extended aid to dependent children to cover children removed from unsuitable homes.
> 
> Federal funds were made available for the payment of foster care costs for AFDC-eligible children who had come into state custody.
> 
> An act was approved (1963) which extended for one year the period during which responsibility for the placement and foster care of dependent children, under the program of aid to families with dependent children under Title IV of the Social Security Act.
> 
> Federal civil service retirement benefits were index-linked to changes in the Consumer Price Index (1962).
> 
> *Civil rights*
> 
> Various measures were carried out by the Kennedy Justice Department to enforce court orders and existing legislation. The Kennedy Administration promoted a Voter Education Project which led to 688,800 between the 1st of April 1962 and the 1st of November 1964, while the Civil Rights Division brought over forty-two suits in four states in order to secure voting rights for blacks. In addition, Kennedy supported the anti-poll tax amendment, which cleared Congress in September 1962 (although it was not ratified until 1964 as the Twenty-fourth Amendment). As noted by one student of black voting in the South, in relation to the attempts by the Kennedy Administration to promote civil rights, Whereas the Eisenhower lawyers had moved deliberately, the Kennedy-Johnson attorneys pushed the judiciary far more earnestly.
> 
> Executive Order 10925 (issued in 1961) combined the federal employment and government contractor agencies into a unified Committee on Equal Employment opportunity (CEEO). This new committee helped to put an end to segregation and discriminatory employment practices (such as only employing African-Americans for low-skilled jobs) in a number of workplaces across the United States.
> 
> Discrimination in public housing was prohibited.
> 
> The Interstate Commerce Commission made Jim Crow illegal in interstate transportation, having been put under pressure to do so by both the Freedom Riders and the Department of Justice.
> 
> Employment of African-Americans in federal jobs such as in the Post office, the Navy, and the Veterans Administration as a result of the Kennedy Administrations affirmative action policies).
> 
> The Kennedy Administration forbade government contractors from discriminating against any applicant or employee for employment on the grounds of national origin, color, creed, or race.
> 
> The Plan for Progress was launched by the CEEO to persuade large employers to adopt equal opportunity practices. 268 firms with 8 million employees had signed on to this by 1964, while a nationwide study covering the period from May 1961 to June 1963 of 103 corporations showed a Negro gain from 28,940 to 42,738 salaried and from 171,021 to 198,161 hourly paid jobs.
> 
> *Housing*
> 
> The most comprehensive housing and urban renewal program in American history up until that point was carried out, including the first major provisions for middle-income housing, protection of urban open spaces, public mass transit, and private low-income housing.
> 
> Omnibus Housing Bill 1961. In March 1961 Kennedy sent Congress a special message, proposing an ambitious and complex housing program to spur the economy, revitalize cities, and provide affordable housing for middle- and low-income families. The bill proposed spending $3.19 billion and placed major emphasis on improving the existing housing supply, instead of on new housing starts, and creating a cabinet-level Department of Housing and Urban Affairs to oversee the programs. The bill also promised to make the Federal Housing Administration a full partner in urban renewal program by authorizing mortgage loans to finance rehabilitation of homes and urban renewal Committee on housing combined programs for housing, mass transportation, and open space land bills into a single bill.
> 
> Urban renewal grants were increased from $2 to $4 million, while an additional 100,000 units of public housing were constructed.
> 
> Opportunities were provided for coordinated planning of community development: technical assistance to state and local governments.
> 
> Under the Kennedy Administration, there was a change of focus from a wrecker ball approach to small rehabilitation projects in order to preserve existing urban textures.
> 
> Funds for housing for the elderly were increased.
> 
> Title V of the Housing Act was amended (1961) to make nonfarm rural residents eligible for direct housing loans from the Farmers Home Administration. These changes extended the housing program to towns with a population of up to 2,500.
> 
> The Senior Citizens Housing Act (1962) established loans for low-rent apartment projects which were designed to meet the needs of people age 62 and over.
> 
> *Unemployment*
> 
> To help the unemployed, Kennedy broadened the distribution of surplus food, created a pilot Food Stamp program for poor Americans, directed that preference be given to distressed areas in defense contracts, and expanded the services of U.S. Employment Offices.
> 
> Social security benefits were extended to each child whose father was unemployed.
> 
> The first accelerated public works program for areas of unemployment since the New Deal was launched.
> 
> The first full-scale modernization and expansion of the vocational education laws since 1946 were carried out.
> 
> Federal grants were provided to the states enabling them to extend the period covered by unemployment benefit.
> 
> The Manpower Development and Training Act of 1962 authorized a three-year program aimed at retraining workers displaced by new technology. The bill did not exclude employed workers from benefiting and it authorized a training allowance for unemployed participants. Even though 200,000 people were recruited, there was minimal impact, comparatively. The Area Redevelopment Act, a $394 million spending package passed in 1961, followed a strategy of investing in the private sector to stimulate new job creation. It specifically targeted businesses in urban and rural depressed areas and authorized $4.5 million annually over four years for vocational training programs.
> 
> The 1963 amendments to the National Defense Education Act included $731 million in appropriations to states and localities maintaining vocational training programs.
> 
> *Health*
> 
> In 1963 Kennedy, who had a mentally ill sister named Rosemary, submitted the nation's first Presidential special message to Congress on mental health issues. Congress quickly passed the Mental Retardation Facilities and Community Mental Health Centers Construction Act (P.L. 88-164), beginning a new era in Federal support for mental health services. The National Institute of Mental Health assumed responsibility for monitoring community mental health centers programs. This measure was a great success as there was a sixfold increase in people using Mental Health facilities.
> 
> A Medical Health Bill for the Aged (later known as Medicare) was proposed, but Congress failed to enact it.
> 
> The Community Health Services and Facilities Act (1961) increased the amount of funds available for nursing home construction and extended the research and demonstration grant program to other medical facilities.
> 
> The Health Services for Agricultural Migratory Workers Act (1962) established a program of federal grants for family clinics and other health services for migrant workers and their families.
> 
> The first major amendments to the food and drug safety laws since 1938 were carried out. The Drug Amendments of 1962 amended the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act (1938) by strengthening the provisions related to the regulation of therapeutic drugs. The Act required evidence that new drugs proposed for marketing were both safe and effective, and required improved manufacturing processes and procedures.
> 
> The responsibilities of the Food and Drug Administration were significantly enlarged by the Kefauver-Harris Drug Amendments (1962).
> 
> The Vaccination Assistance Act (1962) provided for the vaccination of millions of children against a number of diseases.
> 
> The Social Security Act Amendments of 1963 improved medical services for crippled children and established a new project grant program to improve prenatal care for women from low income families with very high risks of mental retardation and other birth defects. Authorizations for grants to the states under the Maternal and Child Health and Crippled Children's programs were also increased and a research grant program was added.
> 
> The Mental Retardation Facilities Construction Act of 1963 authorized federal support for the construction of university-affiliated training facilities, mental retardation research centers, and community service facilities for adults and children with mental retardation.
> 
> *Equal rights for women*
> 
> The Presidents Commission on the Status of Women was an advisory commission established on December 14, 1961, by Kennedy to investigate questions regarding women's equality in education, in the workplace, and under the law. The commission, chaired by Eleanor Roosevelt until her death in 1962, was composed of 26 members including legislators and philanthropists who were active in women's rights issues. The main purpose of the committee was to document and examine employment policies in place for women. The commission's final report, American Woman (also known as the Peterson Report after the Commission's second chair, Esther Peterson), was issued in October 1963 and documented widespread discrimination against women in the workplace. Among the practices addressed by the group were labor laws pertaining to hours and wages, the quality of legal representation for women, the lack of education and counseling for working women, and federal insurance and tax laws that affected women's incomes. Recommendations included affordable child care for all income levels, hiring practices that promoted equal opportunity for women, and paid maternity leave.
> 
> In early 1960s, full-time working women were paid on average 59 percent of the earnings of their male counterparts. In order to eliminate some forms of sex-based pay discrimination, Kennedy signed the Equal Pay Act into law on June 10, 1963. During the law's first ten years, 171,000 employees received back pay totaling about 84 million dollars.
> 
> *Environment*
> 
> The Clean Air Act (1963) expanded the powers of the federal government in preventing and controlling air pollution.
> 
> The first major additions to the National Park System since 1946 were made, which included the preservation of wilderness areas and a fund for future acquisitions.
> 
> The water pollution prevention program was doubled.
> 
> More aid was provided to localities to combat water pollution.
> 
> The Rivers and Harbors Act of 1962 reiterated and expanded upon previous authorizations for outdoor recreation.
> 
> *Crime*
> 
> Under Kennedy, the first significant package of anti crime bills since 1934 were passed. Amongst the Kennedy Administration's anti crime measures included the Juvenile Delinquency and Youth Offenses Control Act, which was signed into law on September 22, 1961. This program aimed to prevent youth from committing delinquent acts. In 1963, 288 mobsters were brought to trial by a team that was headed by Kennedy's brother, Robert.
> 
> wiki
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most of what you have put out there and failed miserably at dividing is the LBJ agenda vs Jacks.
> 
> You have put out LBJ's under the guise of Kennedy. I will not; I shall not have it.
Click to expand...


Why don't you 'have' a crack at clicking on the link, it would prevent you making a complete ass out of yourself...LOL

New Frontier

The term New Frontier was used by liberal, Democratic presidential candidate John F. Kennedy in his acceptance speech in the 1960 United States presidential election to the Democratic National Convention at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum as the Democratic slogan to inspire America to support him. The phrase developed into a label for his administration's domestic and foreign programs.


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