# AR vs AK?



## DarkFury

*I myself prefer the AK because with the money you save you can by more mags. And I like having a bag full of pre-loaded mags. When you are shooting say rats at the dump you simply do not have time to load mags. I myself have 20 so that is 600 rounds ready to go at 30 per. 

Now the AK DOES need some light work IF you are shooting Chinese with Russian mags. A quick dremel takes care of that. So which do you prefer and why?
*


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## Programmer

For this kind of thing, I like the high mag pistols.  Because of where I live, I don't get to use the big weapons as I'd like.

Shooting 9mm is cheaper, for sure.  I recommend the .22lr mossberg.

I like the sound AK's make and the way the wooden surplus-style guns feel when you fire them.  A baby bush 223 was the closest that I have come to an AR.  Round cost indeed.


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## Delta4Embassy

DarkFury said:


> *I myself prefer the AK because with the money you save you can by more mags. And I like having a bag full of pre-loaded mags. When you are shooting say rats at the dump you simply do not have time to load mags. I myself have 20 so that is 600 rounds ready to go at 30 per.
> 
> Now the AK DOES need some light work IF you are shooting Chinese with Russian mags. A quick dremel takes care of that. So which do you prefer and why?
> *



Everyone who knows weapons will choose an AK unless they have a financial stake in American weapons. There is no comparison, one's objectively better top to bottom.

AR is useless if you drop it in the dirt, don't become an expert cleaning it, or in inclemate weather conditions (as happened in Vietnam with soldiers dying because it's a pos.)

AK can be dropped in the dirt, sand, mud and shaken clean and is still combat effective. Plus the ammo's superior as well. As has been said you can clean an AK with your finger and shirt.


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## 9thIDdoc

All things considered I would prefer the M-14 to either.


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## Iceweasel

I don't own a AK but the word on them that I've read is they are not very accurate, which is why they do so well running dirty. Home defense would be close work though so I wouldn't mind having one but am happy with the AR. I don't think I'd ever shoot enough bad guys to make it run foul.


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## HereWeGoAgain

Delta4Embassy said:


> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I myself prefer the AK because with the money you save you can by more mags. And I like having a bag full of pre-loaded mags. When you are shooting say rats at the dump you simply do not have time to load mags. I myself have 20 so that is 600 rounds ready to go at 30 per.
> 
> Now the AK DOES need some light work IF you are shooting Chinese with Russian mags. A quick dremel takes care of that. So which do you prefer and why?
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone who knows weapons will choose an AK unless they have a financial stake in American weapons. There is no comparison, one's objectively better top to bottom.
> 
> AR is useless if you drop it in the dirt, don't become an expert cleaning it, or in inclemate weather conditions (as happened in Vietnam with soldiers dying because it's a pos.)
> 
> AK can be dropped in the dirt, sand, mud and shaken clean and is still combat effective. Plus the ammo's superior as well. As has been said you can clean an AK with your finger and shirt.
Click to expand...


  The M16 of today is much improved over the Vietnam era rifle.
The flash chroming of the barrel solved the problem they were having with rounds sticking in the breach.
    That being said the AK will take a shitload of abuse.


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## C_Clayton_Jones

"AR vs AK?"

Given their pricing, there's no reason not to own one of each.

I enjoy shooting my AR because it's accurate, its build quality is outstanding, and because of that excellent build quality and use of quality parts it will remain serviceable for years to come.

I enjoy shooting my AK because it's reliable – after 8 years and countless thousands of rounds it has never failed, it's accurate at short ranges, and its build quality is also excellent, although the barrel is not of the same quality as the AR.

Both always end up coming to the range with me.


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## HereWeGoAgain

I prefer shooting the AR  over the AK with it's lighter recoil and greater accuracy it's just more fun.
   If I was in a survival situation i'd probably take the AK.


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## 9thIDdoc

If the choice were between an M-16 A-1 and an AK I would have to go with the M-16. The A-1 version and a change in ammo corrected most of the problems of the early run M-16s. The M-16 is more accurate and more controllable in full auto. Both the weapon itself and the ammo for it are lighter handier and less of a pain to carry over time and distance. In my day carrying an AK carried the risk of being mistaken for a bad guy which might not end well.
I can't say I'm all that wild about the 5.56 round but otherwise it is about all you could ask for in a (for real) assault rifle. The M-14 is a better battle rifle.


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## HereWeGoAgain

9thIDdoc said:


> If the choice were between an M-16 A-1 and an AK I would have to go with the M-16. The A-1 version and a change in ammo corrected most of the problems of the early run M-16s. The M-16 is more accurate and more controllable in full auto. Both the weapon itself and the ammo for it are lighter handier and less of a pain to carry over time and distance. In my day carrying an AK carried the risk of being mistaken for a bad guy which might not end well.
> I can't say I'm all that wild about the 5.56 round but otherwise it is about all you could ask for in a (for real) assault rifle. The M-14 is a better battle rifle.



   You could always go with the .308 in the AR platform like the AR 10.


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## 9thIDdoc

HereWeGoAgain said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the choice were between an M-16 A-1 and an AK I would have to go with the M-16. The A-1 version and a change in ammo corrected most of the problems of the early run M-16s. The M-16 is more accurate and more controllable in full auto. Both the weapon itself and the ammo for it are lighter handier and less of a pain to carry over time and distance. In my day carrying an AK carried the risk of being mistaken for a bad guy which might not end well.
> I can't say I'm all that wild about the 5.56 round but otherwise it is about all you could ask for in a (for real) assault rifle. The M-14 is a better battle rifle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You could always go with the .308 in the AR platform like the AR 10.
Click to expand...


I have a Springfield Arms "SOCOM" in .308.


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## shadow355

Caliber wise, they both have their benefits.

 Overall, the AK wins. It is just a great and dependable rifle. It dont malfunction and it does not jam. And todays AKS are more accurate out to 300 yards and beyond, more than they were 20 or 30 years ago.

 The AK Rifle is a tank and a great end of the world gun. It is good for anti personnel as well as anti barrier applications. It is a great bullet - a .30 caliber ; with good energy and ballistics. It has firepower and the ability to overwhelm an enemy.

 The .223 is terrific for it flat trajectory and speed, even though the 55 grain bullet is popular, it is best with the bullets averaging 70 grains. I feel that even the "green tipped 5.56 ammo" and others, is still inferior to the AK-47 / SKS round. The AK and ammo is bulkier and heavier, and the M4 and 5.56 ammo is more compact and lighter, but the benefit ratio of the AK rifle is tremendously more. If I was in a South American Jungle - Desert of Africa or some other remote region......I would rather have an AK. Better tolerances on the rifle, less maintance and worry of failure.

  Shadow 355 ( Prior Military )


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## Sbiker

))

Colonel Colt made equal the men...
Sergeaunt Kalashnikov made equal the states


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## airplanemechanic

In a battle situation I would rather have a round flying downrange 6 inches off target than pull the trigger and hear nothing but a "click". 

AK all the way.


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## HereWeGoAgain

airplanemechanic said:


> In a battle situation I would rather have a round flying downrange 6 inches off target than pull the trigger and hear nothing but a "click".
> 
> AK all the way.



  I've put thousands of rounds through my AR without a single failure.
Even dirty it still fires just fine.


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## airplanemechanic

Consider yourself lucky. Many soldiers are pushing up daisies because of that POS.


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## HereWeGoAgain

airplanemechanic said:


> Consider yourself lucky. Many soldiers are pushing up daisies because of that POS.



     From the Viet Nam era yeah.
Once they did some fine tuning the rifle works just fine.


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## Skull Pilot

I'll never give up my mini 14


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## 9thIDdoc

I carried an M-16A-1 in combat in Vietnam. It was very reliable, even when fairly dirty (most of the time). I'm still alive. Some other folks aren't. I would choose the M-16 over the AK in any similar situation. The problem with the small but fast 5.56 round is that it tends to come apart or deflect wildly on vegetation. Also it drifts badly at longer ranges if there is much of a breeze. Most of the guys who walked point regularly seemed to prefer the 12Ga. with buckshot to either weapon in heavy vegetation.
As I said before I would prefer the M14 to either in most circumstances. The civilian version is the M1A. I have one of those and an M1 Garand.


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## Missourian

I feel like Gunny...AK-47?  Yuck.  

I have an AR...the bad guys shoot AKs.


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## 9thIDdoc

M1A Hard to beat
Loaded M1A™ | Buy Tactical Semi Automatic Rifles


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## HereWeGoAgain

9thIDdoc said:


> M1A Hard to beat
> Loaded M1A™ | Buy Tactical Semi Automatic Rifles



  Thats a sweet rifle no doubt!!


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## MikeK

HereWeGoAgain said:


> I prefer shooting the AR  over the AK with it's lighter recoil and greater accuracy it's just more fun.
> If I was in a survival situation i'd probably take the AK.


I have no doubt the AR-15 is more suitable for target shooting.  But, while I've never been in combat I have heard things from individuals who have, including my father who fought through the Pacific during WW-II, and based on things they've said about combat conditions I have a clear impression the AK is a more reliable weapon.


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## MikeK

Programmer said:


> For this kind of thing, I like the high mag pistols.  Because of where I live, I don't get to use the big weapons as I'd like.
> 
> Shooting 9mm is cheaper, for sure.  I recommend the .22lr mossberg.
> 
> I like the sound AK's make and the way the wooden surplus-style guns feel when you fire them.  A baby bush 223 was the closest that I have come to an AR.  Round cost indeed.


I've never even seen or handled either an M-16, an AR-15 or an AK-47.  Based on all I've read and heard from experienced individuals the AK is more suitable for combat conditions.  But my preference for it strongly includes an aesthetic factor.  The wood stock and forearm make a big difference (to me).  

I've never cared for the cold and complicated-looking, all metal, futuristic look of the M-16 and AR-15, so I wouldn't care to own either one.  But the AK, in addition to its reputation as a dependable weapon under wet and dirty conditions, is good to look at, too.


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## Spinster

9thIDdoc said:


> All things considered I would prefer the M-14 to either.



But that wasn't the topic of this thread, was it?


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## MikeK

shadow355 said:


> Overall, the AK wins. It is just a great and dependable rifle. It dont malfunction and it does not jam. And todays AKS are more accurate out to 300 yards and beyond, more than they were 20 or 30 years ago.
> [...]


What you've said conforms with something I read in a _Shotgun News_ article I read a few years back when I was considering buying a Chinese import AK-47 for $299.  The article I read in the same issue, combined with the fact that I don't shoot much anymore, changed my mind.

The writer basically said AK-47s are made all over the world and its reputation for deficient accuracy is based on the performance of the cheaper ones, which are carelessly manufactured.


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## airplanemechanic

Mizzu, you really think that was a fair video? He took a part from the guy field stripping the AK and the guy STILL beat the M16 guy!! lol


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## westwall

DarkFury said:


> *I myself prefer the AK because with the money you save you can by more mags. And I like having a bag full of pre-loaded mags. When you are shooting say rats at the dump you simply do not have time to load mags. I myself have 20 so that is 600 rounds ready to go at 30 per.
> 
> Now the AK DOES need some light work IF you are shooting Chinese with Russian mags. A quick dremel takes care of that. So which do you prefer and why?
> *













I prefer HK and FN.  I own at least one of all of them, but if it's my life on the line I'll take my G3 any day of the week.


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## Programmer

MikeK said:


> Programmer said:
> 
> 
> 
> For this kind of thing, I like the high mag pistols.  Because of where I live, I don't get to use the big weapons as I'd like.
> 
> Shooting 9mm is cheaper, for sure.  I recommend the .22lr mossberg.
> 
> I like the sound AK's make and the way the wooden surplus-style guns feel when you fire them.  A baby bush 223 was the closest that I have come to an AR.  Round cost indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> I've never even seen or handled either an M-16, an AR-15 or an AK-47.  Based on all I've read and heard from experienced individuals the AK is more suitable for combat conditions.  But my preference for it strongly includes an aesthetic factor.  The wood stock and forearm make a big difference (to me).
> 
> I've never cared for the cold and complicated-looking, all metal, futuristic look of the M-16 and AR-15, so I wouldn't care to own either one.  But the AK, in addition to its reputation as a dependable weapon under wet and dirty conditions, is good to look at, too.
Click to expand...

I like the wood, too.  I had a heavy SKS like that.  I fired a friend's AK.  You can tell and hear that the AK and SKS are more powerful.  

Rifles look better to me when there's no banana coming out the bottom.  How many people are coming to kill me anyhow? I've got a basic .308 that I could dust off for the longer range.  If the zombies get in close or get inside, I'll take my versamax over any AK.


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## 9thIDdoc

Spinster said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> All things considered I would prefer the M-14 to either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But that wasn't the topic of this thread, was it?
Click to expand...


Maybe not but the M-14 was the US issue rifle at the start (for us) of Vietnam and still was the issue rifle for USMC personnel when I was there in '70 as well as (the match version) US Army snipers. Most Marines I talked to would have never considered exchanging their M-14 for an M-16. The M-14 continues to be a "special" issue item and continues to see service in the ME. I am far from being the only one who considers it the best tactical rifle.


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## WinterBorn

One of the reasons I like an AR is that I can buy a separate upper and be able to change from short barreled CQB rifle to a longer barreled rifle capable of accurate shots out to 500 yards.

That said, like 9thIDdoc, I would prefer an M-14 too.


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## Ringel05

AR, AK?

I'm going with the HK..........


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## shadow355

Missourian said:


> I feel like Gunny...AK-47?  Yuck.
> 
> I have an AR...the bad guys shoot AKs.




Former Delta Force - Larry Vickers.


I cannot find the video - but Larry Vickers done a comparison of the AK-47 and the M-4 on a cinder block  ; for the tv show " weaponology " The .223 did not go completely through a cinder block but the 30 caliber AK round did.

The AK wins for me. Intermediate accuracy and energy to get the job done. The AK-47 & SKS is very lethal.

Shadow 355


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## Missourian

Start at 24:00


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## HereWeGoAgain

You gotta love the guys claim of accuracy with the AK when he's only 40 foot from the targets.


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## RandallFlagg

Delta4Embassy said:


> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I myself prefer the AK because with the money you save you can by more mags. And I like having a bag full of pre-loaded mags. When you are shooting say rats at the dump you simply do not have time to load mags. I myself have 20 so that is 600 rounds ready to go at 30 per.
> 
> Now the AK DOES need some light work IF you are shooting Chinese with Russian mags. A quick dremel takes care of that. So which do you prefer and why?
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone who knows weapons will choose an AK unless they have a financial stake in American weapons. There is no comparison, one's objectively better top to bottom.
> 
> AR is useless if you drop it in the dirt, don't become an expert cleaning it, or in inclemate weather conditions (as happened in Vietnam with soldiers dying because it's a pos.)
> 
> AK can be dropped in the dirt, sand, mud and shaken clean and is still combat effective. Plus the ammo's superior as well. As has been said you can clean an AK with your finger and shirt.
Click to expand...



Pretty much every statement you made is  absolutely ridiculous. I started out with an M14 and when the 16s came out I had one. The initial problems were with the ammo NOT the weapon. I carted mine through every rice paddy,  every ox path and through every bush in the Ashau Valley. It never once let me down. 

Comparing the AK to the AR is goofy, too. Muzzle velocities and ammo are completely different. That is, unless you wish to compare an AR-10 (7.62) to the AK. That would be a better comparison.

When using the AR (or M4) variety with 62gr shells, I can take out ANY target the AK can (and some) that the AK can't. Additionally, sighting platforms for the AK are so far behind the times that it's nearly impossible to find good, reliable platforms for the rifle. Unlike the Mosin Nagante, the AK is EXTREMELY unstable when firing groups of 3 whereas the AR is stable as it can be.

I have killed with both rifles. I'll take the AR platform any day, but that's MY opinion.


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## RandallFlagg

9thIDdoc said:


> If the choice were between an M-16 A-1 and an AK I would have to go with the M-16. The A-1 version and a change in ammo corrected most of the problems of the early run M-16s. The M-16 is more accurate and more controllable in full auto. Both the weapon itself and the ammo for it are lighter handier and less of a pain to carry over time and distance. In my day carrying an AK carried the risk of being mistaken for a bad guy which might not end well.
> I can't say I'm all that wild about the 5.56 round but otherwise it is about all you could ask for in a (for real) assault rifle. The M-14 is a better battle rifle.




You make outstanding points. (1) the battle load of ammo is FAR lighter than with the AK and (2) Both rifles have their own distinct sound (as we all know). It wouldn't be hard to be mistaken for a bad guy. The one time I had trouble with the 16 was when it was hit in the lower by a stray round and I had to dump it. Closest weapon was an AK and I used it. When we returned to the fire base - I got another 16.


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## jon_berzerk

DarkFury said:


> *I myself prefer the AK because with the money you save you can by more mags. And I like having a bag full of pre-loaded mags. When you are shooting say rats at the dump you simply do not have time to load mags. I myself have 20 so that is 600 rounds ready to go at 30 per.
> 
> Now the AK DOES need some light work IF you are shooting Chinese with Russian mags. A quick dremel takes care of that. So which do you prefer and why?
> *




one of each 

you never know what is going to be left laying around 

if it comes to that


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## ZackB

I own an AK and 2 AR15 carbines in 5.56. While I have a lot of fun with the ARs and have them both outfitted with extras (eg, Eotech sights, flash lights, grips, bipods...), I think that in a real survival situation I will pick up my AK. I have had it for years and have run literally thousands of rounds through it with no problems (except periodically running across a cheap assed Russian cartridge that fails to fire). It is a dependable workhorse and is accurate as hell up to, and a little over, 100 yards. 

My 3 go to pieces for the end of the world are my AK, my Glock 17, and my Smith .357 revolver.


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## RandallFlagg

I like this video.....


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## Spinster

MikeK said:


> shadow355 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Overall, the AK wins. It is just a great and dependable rifle. It dont malfunction and it does not jam. And todays AKS are more accurate out to 300 yards and beyond, more than they were 20 or 30 years ago.
> [...]
> 
> 
> 
> What you've said conforms with something I read in a _Shotgun News_ article I read a few years back when I was considering buying a Chinese import AK-47 for $299.  The article I read in the same issue, combined with the fact that I don't shoot much anymore, changed my mind.
> 
> The writer basically said AK-47s are made all over the world and its reputation for deficient accuracy is based on the performance of the cheaper ones, which are carelessly manufactured.
Click to expand...


Agreed, AKs made in the China and the U.S. are trash, but not so from countries like Russia and Romania. You can no longer get Romanian AKs anymore as all exports are going directly to the Russian effort. AKs are definitely superior weapons and that's why they've been the most produced the world over. They are dependable, reliable in dirty environments, and they're accurate. Ammo is plentiful and not all that expensive like in the case of 30-06 although the range is better with the later, although the other factors suffer. It all depends on the circumstances which has to be considered with whatever weapon is being compared.


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## PredFan

I would like to have both. In deciding to buy the AR, I was told by people that the AK suffered in the area of accuracy, and I am still told that the AR is reliable even if it is seldom or never cleaned. I know people who claim to not have cleaned theirs and have shot 1000+ rounds out if it. Being a gun cleaning freak, that kind of thing unnerves me though.

I will someday own an AK. I just like the look of them.


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## 9thIDdoc

I prefer my M-1A SOCOM to either.


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## WinterBorn

9thIDdoc said:


> I prefer my M-1A SOCOM to either.



I have an M1A.  There is no finer semi-auto rifle out there, imho.   I would like to shoot the Springfield Scout Squad.  I think that extra two inches make me favor it over the SOCOM.  The SOCOM is a sweet little package though.


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## 9thIDdoc

WinterBorn said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I prefer my M-1A SOCOM to either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have an M1A.  There is no finer semi-auto rifle out there, imho.   I would like to shoot the Springfield Scout Squad.  I think that extra two inches make me favor it over the SOCOM.  The SOCOM is a sweet little package though.
Click to expand...


I had a match grade M1A to use for awhile and really liked it but it actually belonged to someone else (long boring story) and I spent awhile without one. Then my wife ran into the SOCOM at a yard sale. In the box with all the paperwork and two spare 20 rd. mags. It was claimed to have fired two rds. to test for function. Got it for slightly over half factory price. Shortly there after my father-in-law passed away and left me his pristine M1 Garand. Have spent many years fiddling around with various bolt action military rifles (usually in one state or another of being "sportized") and have enjoyed them very much. Life is good.


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## RandallFlagg

9thIDdoc said:


> I prefer my M-1A SOCOM to either.




I have never had the pleasure of firing one - but I would love to.


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## RandallFlagg

9thIDdoc said:


> I prefer my M-1A SOCOM to either.


 

I just saw a pic of (I guess) is the latest variation of the SOCOM. The SOCOM CQB.

In many ways it reminds me of the old airborne version of the carbine, in a weird way...

Looks like it would be nice, though.


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## williepete

2nd preference would be the AK.

1st preference would be a radio with a four ship of A-10s circling overhead.


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## RandallFlagg

pic of SOCOM CQB - Google Search


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## 9thIDdoc

This is the version I have except mine has the darker colored stock and it is also almost always loaded with a 20rd. mag.(instead of the 10rd. pictured here.)


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## ZackB

9thIDdoc said:


> This is the version I have except mine has the darker colored stock and it is also almost always loaded with a 20rd. mag.(instead of the 10rd. pictured here.)


I have been looking real hard at those.


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## HereWeGoAgain

RandallFlagg said:


> I like this video.....



  Other than optics I spend my money on trigger jobs,higher quality bolt and assuring the rifle barrel is a floater. If you're going to do some night hunting for hogs or other varmints I can see a light or night vision.

  Other than that you dont need all the other bullshit.


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## turtledude

Spinster said:


> Agreed, AKs made in the China and the U.S. are trash, but not so from countries like Russia and Romania. You can no longer get Romanian AKs anymore as all exports are going directly to the Russian effort. AKs are definitely superior weapons and that's why they've been the most produced the world over. They are dependable, reliable in dirty environments, and they're accurate. Ammo is plentiful and not all that expensive like in the case of 30-06 although the range is better with the later, although the other factors suffer. It all depends on the circumstances which has to be considered with whatever weapon is being compared.



the Poly Tech legend was one of the best AKs ever made-it had one of the thickest receivers on the market and its the one US SF uses when they need AKs.  I gave one away before the import ban hit them.  I have owned top of the line-the Russian made-RED JACKET versions, the Bulgarian milled Receiver arsenals etc and that Chinese made one was equally as good as the Red Jacket custom conversions


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## turtledude

rifles I have owned and competed with

VALMET 76 in 556 (sold)-great rifle couldn't get parts after the import ban

AR 70-Beretta-as reliable as an AK as accurate as an AR-only drawback=the safety works like a SW  Double action pistol (like a 659) and the mag release is AK style

HK G3 (CETME Portugese) 762-sold, Lousy trigger, reliable

HK 93- (Sold) overrated and I made a ton of money off of it


an Original Armalite AR -180 (sold for big profit)  reliable, accurate, easy to shoot-cons-the stock lock up was loose.  I have also shot the HOWA (best made) the STERLING (not as good) and the SA versions.


AR 15s  all kinds and variations.  Colt, Bushmaster (Maine) Windham Weaponry (old Bushmaster) STI competition gun, Armalite, Rock River Arms. CMMG, STAG, DPMS, Smith and Wesson and several builds I have done using various receivers including Anderson, RRA, RRA has the best stock trigger IMHO.  they all are pretty much even in my book.  Windham Weaponry for the  money is one of the best brands, the SW tends to be the most trouble free according to friends of mine who run a top training facility.  the current Bushmasters don't appear to be as good as the Maine built ones.  

FN-FALs (original Belgium, a SA South American build and a DSA American build)  

several Arsenal Bulgarian rigs-some in 762X39 one in 545X39 and three in 556 NATO-probably the best made AK generally available now

AK 103-Red Jacket builds (I suspect no longer available) and two in 545 AK 74 variations-the best AKs I have owned other than that Valmet

SA M1A1 super-match set up in M-21 configuration 

very heavy-static position weapon

STEYR AUG and the American Made MICRO-TECH

the latter is more versatile due to optic mounting options-great weapons for house clearing-sucks for shooting prone due to mag changes


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## turtledude

also several MI garands (DCM rifles) several MI Carbines (most DCMs) one Korean re=import and one built for me by Fulton Armory (top flight stuff)

Finally a few Rock Rivers in 9mm and one of the LAR in 308

so based on all of this I'd say the following

the best SHTF rifle of all I own is probably the Arsenal in the 556.  the recoil impulse is better than the 762x39 and more accurate but its a bit more reliable than the ARs I have.  the AR-70 would be a close second.  of the 762 rifles, the Belgium made FAL has the best ergonomics but the LAR is a bit more accurate and easier to mount optics on it


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## Crixus

DarkFury said:


> *I myself prefer the AK because with the money you save you can by more mags. And I like having a bag full of pre-loaded mags. When you are shooting say rats at the dump you simply do not have time to load mags. I myself have 20 so that is 600 rounds ready to go at 30 per.
> 
> Now the AK DOES need some light work IF you are shooting Chinese with Russian mags. A quick dremel takes care of that. So which do you prefer and why?
> *




I like the AR. I like it's extremely modular nature of the platform for starters and if I decied I want one in any caliber that's the same size as .556 it's a simple matter of swapping uppers. AK is not junk, but in my mind it's a weapon that's at its best in full auto. I do like 7.62x39, I just like it better in a bolt gun which is why I got a CZ 527 in that caliber. my current AR is a Bushmaster XM15A2. It likes 55 grain .223 JSP and will group those at 2 inches at 100 yards.


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## HereWeGoAgain

Crixus said:


> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I myself prefer the AK because with the money you save you can by more mags. And I like having a bag full of pre-loaded mags. When you are shooting say rats at the dump you simply do not have time to load mags. I myself have 20 so that is 600 rounds ready to go at 30 per.
> 
> Now the AK DOES need some light work IF you are shooting Chinese with Russian mags. A quick dremel takes care of that. So which do you prefer and why?
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like the AR. I like it's extremely modular nature of the platform for starters and if I decied I want one in any caliber that's the same size as .556 it's a simple matter of swapping uppers. AK is not junk, but in my mind it's a weapon that's at its best in full auto. I do like 7.62x39, I just like it better in a bolt gun which is why I got a CZ 527 in that caliber. my current AR is a Bushmaster XM15A2. It likes 55 grain .223 JSP and will group those at 2 inches at 100 yards.
Click to expand...




Crixus said:


> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I myself prefer the AK because with the money you save you can by more mags. And I like having a bag full of pre-loaded mags. When you are shooting say rats at the dump you simply do not have time to load mags. I myself have 20 so that is 600 rounds ready to go at 30 per.
> 
> Now the AK DOES need some light work IF you are shooting Chinese with Russian mags. A quick dremel takes care of that. So which do you prefer and why?
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like the AR. I like it's extremely modular nature of the platform for starters and if I decied I want one in any caliber that's the same size as .556 it's a simple matter of swapping uppers. AK is not junk, but in my mind it's a weapon that's at its best in full auto. I do like 7.62x39, I just like it better in a bolt gun which is why I got a CZ 527 in that caliber. my current AR is a Bushmaster XM15A2. It likes 55 grain .223 JSP and will group those at 2 inches at 100 yards.
Click to expand...


  Gotta disagree on the AK on full auto.
The thing rides up like cheap underwear.


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## Crixus

It does, it does the M16 to. I'm not a trained operator, just a guy. But, many I know will say the muzzle climb is similar, but the M16 is softer. But, I can't shoot class 3 regularly so I'm no authority and can only say how it is for me. As far as what I'm abe to own go's, I have to stick with the AR, but don't have anything against the semiauto AK'S or full auto for that matter. I'm saving for a .50 Beowolf build at this time. I'm thinking about applying for the NFA trust thing and getting a silincer for it. It would open me up to night time pig hunting, and keep the noise down during the day. I'm pretty far out in BFE but our Houston neighbors don't like the noise.


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## Crixus

Oh, and the AR just beats the AK in being modular, but only by a little as far as I know.


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## HereWeGoAgain

Crixus said:


> It does, it does the M16 to. I'm not a trained operator, just a guy. But, many I know will say the muzzle climb is similar, but the M16 is softer. But, I can't shoot class 3 regularly so I'm no authority and can only say how it is for me. As far as what I'm abe to own go's, I have to stick with the AR, but don't have anything against the semiauto AK'S or full auto for that matter. I'm saving for a .50 Beowolf build at this time. I'm thinking about applying for the NFA trust thing and getting a silincer for it. It would open me up to night time pig hunting, and keep the noise down during the day. I'm pretty far out in BFE but our Houston neighbors don't like the noise.



Just installed this...

    On this...





   Hopefully will be test firing next weekend.

   So where are you? I'm in Katy.


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## Crixus

Lol, Nice. You know where Winnie is?


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## HereWeGoAgain

Crixus said:


> Lol, Nice. You know where Winnie is?



  Oh yeah. Picked up a boxer pup out there years ago.


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## HereWeGoAgain

Crixus said:


> Lol, Nice. You know where Winnie is?



  Picked up this little gem in Winnie as well(the top one)


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## Crixus

Just west and a right turn and out in the rice fields. Moved here from Springbranch. Like it because I can shoot and goofing off a bunch, but it's getting* developed out here pretty bad. Sorry for the bold. Not shouting*


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## Crixus

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Crixus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, Nice. You know where Winnie is?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picked up this little gem in Winnie as well(the top one)
Click to expand...


Some pics don't show. Is it a gun or the dog?


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## HereWeGoAgain

Crixus said:


> Just west and a right turn and out in the rice fields. Moved here from Springbranch. Like it because I can shoot and goofing off a bunch, but it's getting* developed out here pretty bad. Sorry for the bold. Not shouting*



  Lived in Spring Branch myself back in the mid seventies.


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## HereWeGoAgain

Crixus said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Crixus said:
> 
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> 
> Lol, Nice. You know where Winnie is?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picked up this little gem in Winnie as well(the top one)
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> Click to expand...
> 
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> Some pics don't show. Is it a gun or the dog?
Click to expand...


 Thats weird,it should show just fine.
But no,it's an FNX .45 Tactical in flat dark earth.


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## Crixus

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Crixus said:
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> HereWeGoAgain said:
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> Crixus said:
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> Lol, Nice. You know where Winnie is?
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> Picked up this little gem in Winnie as well(the top one)
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> Click to expand...
> 
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> Some pics don't show. Is it a gun or the dog?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Thats weird,it should show just fine.
> But no,it's an FNX .45 Tactical in flat dark earth.
Click to expand...


Nice. They used to have a suppressed model at the Arms room that could be rented. Real nice guns for shooting. Accurate to.


HereWeGoAgain said:


> Crixus said:
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> Click to expand...
> 
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> Some pics don't show. Is it a gun or the dog?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thats weird,it should show just fine.
> But no,it's an FNX .45 Tactical in flat dark earth.
Click to expand...



Nice. Going to put pics of my two. Hard to say which is my favorite though.


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## HereWeGoAgain

Crixus said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
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> Thats weird,it should show just fine.
> But no,it's an FNX .45 Tactical in flat dark earth.
> 
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> Nice. They used to have a suppressed model at the Arms room that could be rented. Real nice guns for shooting. Accurate to.
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> HereWeGoAgain said:
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> Click to expand...
> 
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> Click to expand...
> 
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> Some pics don't show. Is it a gun or the dog?
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> 
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> Thats weird,it should show just fine.
> But no,it's an FNX .45 Tactical in flat dark earth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nice. Going to put pics of my two. Hard to say which is my favorite though.
Click to expand...


  So the pics showed up?
But yeah its suppressor ready.

   You gotta love Armslist.


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## Crixus

[/URL][/IMG] I think I did it.


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## Crixus

Arms list rocks. Still working says there is an image, but I cant see it. Mine won't post.


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## HereWeGoAgain

Crixus said:


> [/URL][/IMG] I think I did it.



  No pics.
The easy way is to copy and paste from photo storage such as smugmug or the like.


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## Crixus

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Crixus said:
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> [/URL][/IMG] I think I did it.
> 
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> The easy way is to copy and paste from photo storage such as smugmug or the like.
Click to expand...


I did. I'll try it again,  but they are both carbines. One is my  .58 Cal Pedro's lol (BAD spelling,  bad) musketoon. Awesome gun. The other is my Mforgery.


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## HereWeGoAgain

Crixus said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
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> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did. I'll try it again,  but they are both carbines. One is my  .58 Cal Pedro's lol (BAD spelling,  bad) musketoon. Awesome gun. The other is my Mforgery.
Click to expand...


    Some sites require a certain amount of posts before you can post pics.
  Didnt think this was one of em but it's been so long since my initial posts I cant remember for sure.


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## Crixus

No big. You know that huge boom y'all hear way out west there? That would be my smoke pole.


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## Crixus

Literal punkin chunker. Was real accurate out to 200 yards,  but the back sight busted and that's hard to do now unless you are a super sniper or something.


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## Intolerant

When we talk about reliability issues between the two rifles what we are really talking about is piston versus direct impingement. Direct impingement can be a finnicky system by its very nature. You are essentially funneling hot gas, and whatever unspent powder and particulates it carries, through a very narrow aperture to create pressure against the bolt carrier to move the action. The very narrow part is the key there. Over time, and without proper maintenance, that narrow aperture can become clogged resulting in feeding malfunctions at best.

If we are talking about a prepper end of days scenario then it follows that proper maintenance equipment will become increasingly difficult to come by. The tight tolerances and precision machining that make the AR platform rifles such capable battlefield weapons will become a liability as routine maintenance becomes more difficult to perform in an environment that has lost much of the industrialized base that we have come to rely on for our military hardware. There is a reason our military trains soldiers to be armorers and makes sure every solider is familiar with how to maintain their weapon. There is a reason we maintain the logistics to make sure our soldiers have basic cleaning and maintenance supplies even in the field.

In a post collapse society you would not longer have people manufacturing gun oil or swabs. There would be supplies but those supplies would essentially be finite and it would be in those days where the AK would shine. It lacks the tight tolerances of the AR and most importantly it is piston driven. Pistons can still become fouled but repairing a fouled piston and gas tube is head and shoulders easier than getting the fouling out of a direct impingement system. You can clean the whole apparatus with a tube sock and a sturdy stick if you had to. The AK won't win you any awards for long range marksmanship with its clunky, loose tolerances. Hell anyone who has ever fired one can't tell me with a straight face that the first time they heard the dust cover rattle under the force of the action that they didn't wonder, just a little bit, if the rifle wasn't about to fly apart. Those loosely machined tolerances can actually accommodate a little bit of crud without seizing up. AR platform rifles tend to be a little less forgiving of grit and grime. If you have the supplies and ability to maintain it a direct impingement AR is a fine and obviously battle proven rifle that will do what you need it to do. The AK, on the other hand, has shown time and time again that it can perform under harsh conditions with rudimentary maintenance in an relatively unskilled operator's hands and still be an effective weapon. Of course the best of both worlds would be a piston action AR.

On the subject of ammo, which is hardly even a talking point since you can pretty much make an AR chamber whatever you want so long as you put the parts into it, if I had to choose between 5.56 and 7.62 in a prepper survival situation I'd pick the 7.62. The larger round is just more effective against unarmored opponents and light cover, which is what I imagine you would be faced up against in a prepper/survival scenario.


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## Crixus

DI guns get a bad rap I think. Piston is great,  but they break. Only saw it once on a gun a guy switched over to piston but break it did.  DI does make a filthy gun, but my DI Bushi typically gets cleaned once a month if that and she still go's. Does Okay with steel case fine to,  talk about nasty! I think the AR gets a bad rap and the AK is operated at times. Both are nice guns. My only gripe with both of then is that who ever makes them think those that shoot them are midgets.


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## Intolerant

True. That's why I own several ak's and ar's. I haven't had any trouble from anyone of them. I stocked up on ammo and spare part's when availability was common. Ammo is more common now as well as reloading equipment and primers. If you like shooting like I do better stock up. The way the  political climate is changing  who knows what will happen.


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## Crixus

Intolerant said:


> True. That's why I own several ak's and ar's. I haven't had any trouble from anyone of them. I stocked up on ammo and spare part's when availability was common. Ammo is more common now as well as reloading equipment and primers. If you like shooting like I do better stock up. The way the  political climate is changing  who knows what will happen.



LOL,  that and some MRE's and a Seacrane radio,  I hear ya.


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## Crixus

Oh,  don't know if you tried it yet,  but Perfecta and freedom munitions are decent priced and burn pretty clean.


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## Intolerant

Never tried using those sources. I usually go to a few dealers here in town to buy ammo. People say Tummo how ever you spell is better than nothing. It's steel cased but the ak eats it like candy. The ar will shoot it but it's a bit hard on the extractor . I picked up some awhile back for $5.99 for 20 rounds. I know it will drop a hog at 200 yards easy. Right now I can be choosy about what ammo i get. I save all my good ammo for other purposes while using cheap ammo to plink with. You all have a hog problem bad down there. I would love to go on a night hunt there.


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## Crixus

They are bad. Especially out here. They run right down I10 at the little Trinity river wild life viewing area, and I have about been run down by a hog stampede. Funny as hell but spooky. Just Google up guided pig hunts here. You will get an awesome deal about any place you look in East Texas.


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## Intolerant

I use to live in Pasadena and Brazoria  back in the day. They were not to bad back then . They make good target practice.


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## HereWeGoAgain

Intolerant said:


> I use to live in Pasadena and Brazoria  back in the day. They were not to bad back then . They make good target practice.



  My best was three in one shot with the .270
In the spring when the sows dropped their litter the little fuckers would swarm my feeders. I'd wait and see how many would line up for me and......BLAM!!!
   I would take all the one's I shot,big and small,and dump em over the fence line by the highway with the front end loader.
    Then wait patiently for the grass to grow and the mowers to come and cut the easement.
     It sounded like someone dropped a semi load of drumsticks off a fifty story building.


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## Crixus

They do. My biggest thing now is finding a source of black powder and some musket caps. I do remember pasa-gitdown-dina. Drive through about daily.


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## Crixus

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Intolerant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I use to live in Pasadena and Brazoria  back in the day. They were not to bad back then . They make good target practice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My best was three in one shot with the .270
> In the spring when the sows dropped their litter the little fuckers would swarm my feeders. I'd wait and see how many would line up for me and......BLAM!!!
> I would take all the one's I shot,big and small,and dump em over the fence line by the highway with the front end loader.
> Then wait patiently for the grass to grow and the mowers to come and cut the easement.
> It sounded like someone dropped a semi load of drumsticks off a fifty story building.
Click to expand...


LOL,  that's what they do here to. Last one I got was with my muzzle loader. Everyone made fun of me until they saw it flat lay out a big fat sow in one shot. That's when I started gathering parts for the .50 Beowulf.


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## SFC Ollie

I'll take an AR. With a quick refresher it would feel like an old friend....


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## Intolerant

Man I hope you had a backup when shooting the muzzle loader. I want to put them down quick and fast. They are Ornery and down right nasty. You wound one and don't make a kill shot. You best make the first one count lol.


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## Intolerant

I hear ya Ollie.


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## Crixus

Intolerant said:


> Man I hope you had a backup when shooting the muzzle loader. I want to put them down quick and fast. They are Ornery and down right nasty. You wound one and don't make a kill shot. You best make the first one count lol.



Oh it went down and fast. It was 60 grains of 3f real black powder under a 500 grain minie ball. My Enfield boomed and all you heard was Whack! They swore I missed but when we got their that hog was good and dead. I think I got it on a exhale because there was lots of blood on the ground and all over its snout. 

The lilBushi ain't no slouch either. Same problem as the Enfield though,  the sights suck. I need a flat top upper.


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## Crixus

Okay,  I think I photos worked out. Top is the Bushi in .223/.556. At this time it's got a stupid magpul hand guard. I broke the original. And the other is my 1851 Enfield musketoon. I like that one allot,  but due to the fact I can't find musket caps or real black powder it mostly hangs on the wall. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









[/URL]/IMG]


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## RandallFlagg

Crixus said:


> Okay,  I think I photos worked out. Top is the Bushi in .223/.556. At this time it's got a stupid magpul hand guard. I broke the original. And the other is my 1851 Enfield musketoon. I like that one allot,  but due to the fact I can't find musket caps or real black powder it mostly hangs on the wall.
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The 1851 Enfield is a thing of beauty - absolutely beautiful. I have a good friend in town that ONLY shoots black powder and, while it's not really my thing, they DO take you back to a different time and it makes me appreciate how "effective" are weapons are now - compared to back then....


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## Crixus

RandallFlagg said:


> Crixus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay,  I think I photos worked out. Top is the Bushi in .223/.556. At this time it's got a stupid magpul hand guard. I broke the original. And the other is my 1851 Enfield musketoon. I like that one allot,  but due to the fact I can't find musket caps or real black powder it mostly hangs on the wall.
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> The 1851 Enfield is a thing of beauty - absolutely beautiful. I have a good friend in town that ONLY shoots black powder and, while it's not really my thing, they DO take you back to a different time and it makes me appreciate how "effective" are weapons are now - compared to back then....
Click to expand...


I bought that thing off a a reenactor. Wasn't civil war though, not ours anyway. That thing had been shot only twice both times with blanks. I figured it would be quaint and marginally accurate. I was wrong. Its a beast! Flat knocks the hell out of any critter you hit. Could not imagine getting shot with it. Very handy to. Nice in a saddle. If only it was a lever gun.


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