# What My Fellow Liberals Don't Get About Venezuela



## Toro

Excellent piece by a Venezuelan liberal saying how clueless the knee-jerk anti-Americans are about Venezuela.

Opinion | What My Fellow Liberals Don’t Get About Venezuela

In the video, because of two decades of Chavez and Maduro rule, she says


There is total chaos in Venezuela - hunger, lack of medicines and power black-outs
Liberals are promoting and glorifying a brutal dictator
Inflation is at 2,690,000%.  Venezuelan money is so worthless, people are literally making origami out of it.

Malnutrition and lack of medicine has caused life expectancy to decline by 3 to 5 years. 

3,000,000 million have fled the country causing a Syria-level refugee crisis

Things have gotten so bad that kidnappers have stopped kidnapping because people can't pay ransoms
The Left blame American sanctions for economic collapse.  But the economy collapsed in 2016, before sanctions against Venezuelan oil companies were imposed.
The only sanctions at that time were travel-bans and frozen bank accounts of individuals who were connected to the government and had stolen billions of dollars.
Leftists who think the country is doing fine are on another planet
American sanctions are to restore Venezuelan democracy.  

Fifty-one countries recently recognized the opposition leader, Juan Guaido as the interim President after the Maduro government fraudulently stored the last election
Guaido is not a conservative.  He is a social democrat.
If there's one value liberal America appreciates, it's human rights.  So liberals have to stop their moral relativism regarding Venezuela.
American liberals should support humanitarian aid and efforts to restore democracy in Venezuela.


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Toro said:


> Excellent piece by a Venezuelan liberal saying how clueless the knee-jerk anti-Americans are about Venezuela.
> 
> Opinion | What My Fellow Liberals Don’t Get About Venezuela
> 
> In the video, because of two decades of Chavez and Maduro rule, she says
> 
> 
> There is total chaos in Venezuela - hunger, lack of medicines and power black-outs
> Liberals are promoting and glorifying a brutal dictator
> Inflation is at 2,690,000%.  Venezuelan money is so worthless, people are literally making origami out of it.
> 
> Malnutrition and lack of medicine has caused life expectancy to decline by 3 to 5 years.
> 
> 3,000,000 million have fled the country causing a Syria-level refugee crisis
> 
> Things have gotten so bad that kidnappers have stopped kidnapping because people can't pay ransoms
> The Left blame American sanctions for economic collapse, but the economy collapsed in 2016, before widespread economic sanctions were imposed.
> The only sanctions up until that time were travel-bans and frozen bank accounts of individuals who were connected to the government and had stolen billions of dollars.
> Leftists who think the country is doing fine are on another planet
> American sanctions are to restore Venezuelan democracy.
> 
> Fifty-one countries recently recognized the opposition leader, Juan Guaido as the interim President after the Maduro government fraudulently stored the last election
> Guaido is not a conservative.  He is a social democrat.
> If there's one value liberal America appreciates, it's human rights.  So liberals have to stop their moral relativism regarding Venezuela.
> American liberals should support humanitarian aid and efforts to restore democracy



You see "bad news" I see a perfectly orchestrated Socialist Success Story.

What was the Chavez family worth before they took over? Peanuts, right?  Today they're worth $4 to 5 BILLION!!!  Let that sink in!  It's a rousing Progressive, Socialist success.  Stop crying over the people who thought that surrendering their guns and freedoms was going to somehow magically work out "better" for them


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Also, I used to think that Pinochet was a Bad Guy.  After this, maybe helicopter rides aren't such a bad idea after all


----------



## Votto

Toro said:


> Excellent piece by a Venezuelan liberal saying how clueless the knee-jerk anti-Americans are about Venezuela.
> 
> Opinion | What My Fellow Liberals Don’t Get About Venezuela
> 
> In the video, because of two decades of Chavez and Maduro rule, she says
> 
> 
> There is total chaos in Venezuela - hunger, lack of medicines and power black-outs
> Liberals are promoting and glorifying a brutal dictator
> Inflation is at 2,690,000%.  Venezuelan money is so worthless, people are literally making origami out of it.
> 
> Malnutrition and lack of medicine has caused life expectancy to decline by 3 to 5 years.
> 
> 3,000,000 million have fled the country causing a Syria-level refugee crisis
> 
> Things have gotten so bad that kidnappers have stopped kidnapping because people can't pay ransoms
> The Left blame American sanctions for economic collapse.  But the economy collapsed in 2016, before sanctions against Venezuelan oil companies were imposed.
> The only sanctions at that time were travel-bans and frozen bank accounts of individuals who were connected to the government and had stolen billions of dollars.
> Leftists who think the country is doing fine are on another planet
> American sanctions are to restore Venezuelan democracy.
> 
> Fifty-one countries recently recognized the opposition leader, Juan Guaido as the interim President after the Maduro government fraudulently stored the last election
> Guaido is not a conservative.  He is a social democrat.
> If there's one value liberal America appreciates, it's human rights.  So liberals have to stop their moral relativism regarding Venezuela.
> American liberals should support humanitarian aid and efforts to restore democracy in Venezuela.



Nope, Trump done it.


Scratch that, Putin done it.


----------



## Votto

CrusaderFrank said:


> Also, I used to think that Pinochet was a Bad Guy.  After this, maybe helicopter rides aren't such a bad idea after all



I'm not sure there are enough helicopters.


----------



## Oddball

CrusaderFrank said:


> Also, I used to think that Pinochet was a Bad Guy.  After this, maybe helicopter rides aren't such a bad idea after all


----------



## Pete7469

Votto said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I used to think that Pinochet was a Bad Guy.  After this, maybe helicopter rides aren't such a bad idea after all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure there are enough helicopters.
Click to expand...


We can resort to "Green energy"


----------



## Votto

Pete7469 said:


> Votto said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I used to think that Pinochet was a Bad Guy.  After this, maybe helicopter rides aren't such a bad idea after all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure there are enough helicopters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We can resort to "Green energy"
Click to expand...


But alas, won't they kill birds?

If you add Left wingers wind mills to our Leftist catapult system all the birds will go extinct.

Who will then poop on our heads?


----------



## anynameyouwish

Toro said:


> Excellent piece by a Venezuelan liberal saying how clueless the knee-jerk anti-Americans are about Venezuela.
> 
> Opinion | What My Fellow Liberals Don’t Get About Venezuela
> 
> In the video, because of two decades of Chavez and Maduro rule, she says
> 
> 
> There is total chaos in Venezuela - hunger, lack of medicines and power black-outs
> Liberals are promoting and glorifying a brutal dictator
> Inflation is at 2,690,000%.  Venezuelan money is so worthless, people are literally making origami out of it.
> 
> Malnutrition and lack of medicine has caused life expectancy to decline by 3 to 5 years.
> 
> 3,000,000 million have fled the country causing a Syria-level refugee crisis
> 
> Things have gotten so bad that kidnappers have stopped kidnapping because people can't pay ransoms
> The Left blame American sanctions for economic collapse.  But the economy collapsed in 2016, before sanctions against Venezuelan oil companies were imposed.
> The only sanctions at that time were travel-bans and frozen bank accounts of individuals who were connected to the government and had stolen billions of dollars.
> Leftists who think the country is doing fine are on another planet
> American sanctions are to restore Venezuelan democracy.
> 
> Fifty-one countries recently recognized the opposition leader, Juan Guaido as the interim President after the Maduro government fraudulently stored the last election
> Guaido is not a conservative.  He is a social democrat.
> If there's one value liberal America appreciates, it's human rights.  So liberals have to stop their moral relativism regarding Venezuela.
> American liberals should support humanitarian aid and efforts to restore democracy in Venezuela.




What YOU don't get about liberals!

We do NOT want to be like VENEZUELA!

YOU are the (%&%?$#%^&) who keep TELLING US that WE WANT TO BE LIKE VENEZUELA!

We keep telling you;  "no no!  not venezuela!  FINLAND, NORWAY, SWEDEN!"

Can we talk about Finland and Norway?

I don't mean to offend but I'd like to know what the fuk is wrong with the brain  of a person who keeps claiming "liberals want to be like venezuela" when we keep telling you we don't!


----------



## OldLady

anynameyouwish said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent piece by a Venezuelan liberal saying how clueless the knee-jerk anti-Americans are about Venezuela.
> 
> Opinion | What My Fellow Liberals Don’t Get About Venezuela
> 
> In the video, because of two decades of Chavez and Maduro rule, she says
> 
> 
> There is total chaos in Venezuela - hunger, lack of medicines and power black-outs
> Liberals are promoting and glorifying a brutal dictator
> Inflation is at 2,690,000%.  Venezuelan money is so worthless, people are literally making origami out of it.
> 
> Malnutrition and lack of medicine has caused life expectancy to decline by 3 to 5 years.
> 
> 3,000,000 million have fled the country causing a Syria-level refugee crisis
> 
> Things have gotten so bad that kidnappers have stopped kidnapping because people can't pay ransoms
> The Left blame American sanctions for economic collapse.  But the economy collapsed in 2016, before sanctions against Venezuelan oil companies were imposed.
> The only sanctions at that time were travel-bans and frozen bank accounts of individuals who were connected to the government and had stolen billions of dollars.
> Leftists who think the country is doing fine are on another planet
> American sanctions are to restore Venezuelan democracy.
> 
> Fifty-one countries recently recognized the opposition leader, Juan Guaido as the interim President after the Maduro government fraudulently stored the last election
> Guaido is not a conservative.  He is a social democrat.
> If there's one value liberal America appreciates, it's human rights.  So liberals have to stop their moral relativism regarding Venezuela.
> American liberals should support humanitarian aid and efforts to restore democracy in Venezuela.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What YOU don't get about liberals!
> 
> We do NOT want to be like VENEZUELA!
> 
> YOU are the (%&%?$#%^&) who keep TELLING US that WE WANT TO BE LIKE VENEZUELA!
> 
> We keep telling you;  "no no!  not venezuela!  FINLAND, NORWAY, SWEDEN!"
> 
> Can we talk about Finland and Norway?
> 
> I don't mean to offend but I'd like to know what the fuk is wrong with the brain  of a person who keeps claiming "liberals want to be like venezuela" when we keep telling you we don't!
Click to expand...

I thought the Venezuelan in the OP was talking about the anti-American left IN HER OWN COUNTRY.  Obviously, at least from what I've seen here, the left doesn't support that Maduro government at all.  That's probably because the left in this country isn't actually socialist/communist as we are always being blamed.


----------



## Oddball

Pete7469 said:


> Votto said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I used to think that Pinochet was a Bad Guy.  After this, maybe helicopter rides aren't such a bad idea after all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure there are enough helicopters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We can resort to "Green energy"
Click to expand...


----------



## Lucy Hamilton

OldLady said:


> anynameyouwish said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent piece by a Venezuelan liberal saying how clueless the knee-jerk anti-Americans are about Venezuela.
> 
> Opinion | What My Fellow Liberals Don’t Get About Venezuela
> 
> In the video, because of two decades of Chavez and Maduro rule, she says
> 
> 
> There is total chaos in Venezuela - hunger, lack of medicines and power black-outs
> Liberals are promoting and glorifying a brutal dictator
> Inflation is at 2,690,000%.  Venezuelan money is so worthless, people are literally making origami out of it.
> 
> Malnutrition and lack of medicine has caused life expectancy to decline by 3 to 5 years.
> 
> 3,000,000 million have fled the country causing a Syria-level refugee crisis
> 
> Things have gotten so bad that kidnappers have stopped kidnapping because people can't pay ransoms
> The Left blame American sanctions for economic collapse.  But the economy collapsed in 2016, before sanctions against Venezuelan oil companies were imposed.
> The only sanctions at that time were travel-bans and frozen bank accounts of individuals who were connected to the government and had stolen billions of dollars.
> Leftists who think the country is doing fine are on another planet
> American sanctions are to restore Venezuelan democracy.
> 
> Fifty-one countries recently recognized the opposition leader, Juan Guaido as the interim President after the Maduro government fraudulently stored the last election
> Guaido is not a conservative.  He is a social democrat.
> If there's one value liberal America appreciates, it's human rights.  So liberals have to stop their moral relativism regarding Venezuela.
> American liberals should support humanitarian aid and efforts to restore democracy in Venezuela.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What YOU don't get about liberals!
> 
> We do NOT want to be like VENEZUELA!
> 
> YOU are the (%&%?$#%^&) who keep TELLING US that WE WANT TO BE LIKE VENEZUELA!
> 
> We keep telling you;  "no no!  not venezuela!  FINLAND, NORWAY, SWEDEN!"
> 
> Can we talk about Finland and Norway?
> 
> I don't mean to offend but I'd like to know what the fuk is wrong with the brain  of a person who keeps claiming "liberals want to be like venezuela" when we keep telling you we don't!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought the Venezuelan in the OP was talking about the anti-American left IN HER OWN COUNTRY.  Obviously, at least from what I've seen here, the left doesn't support that Maduro government at all.  That's probably because the left in this country isn't actually socialist/communist as we are always being blamed.
Click to expand...


*"the left doesn't support that Maduro government at all."*

But they do support Maduro and the International Left do support Maduro, just like they all supported Chavez and Castro in Cuba etc. With Venezuela they all insist the disaster in Venezuela has ZERO to do with Maduro or Chavez and it is all because of falling oil prices combined with the sanctions which is totally not correct on any level.


----------



## Toro

CrusaderFrank said:


> Also, I used to think that Pinochet was a Bad Guy.  After this, maybe helicopter rides aren't such a bad idea after all



Yeah, you know it’s funny. I’ve never supported coups before. But After the absolute incompetence of two decades of socialist rule, you can make a strong humanitarian argument for it.


----------



## Oddball

anynameyouwish said:


> What YOU don't get about liberals!
> 
> We do NOT want to be like VENEZUELA!
> 
> YOU are the (%&%?$#%^&) who keep TELLING US that WE WANT TO BE LIKE VENEZUELA!
> 
> We keep telling you;  "no no!  not venezuela!  FINLAND, NORWAY, SWEDEN!"
> 
> Can we talk about Finland and Norway?
> 
> I don't mean to offend but I'd like to know what the fuk is wrong with the brain  of a person who keeps claiming "liberals want to be like venezuela" when we keep telling you we don't!


Let's talk about Scandinavia for a moment.

All of those nations have the populations roughly the size of South Carolina...They all have market-based economies (*NOT *socialism)...All are so heavily taxed that their economies are utterly moribund...Their fuel prices are absurdly high and the taxes on new cars nearly double their prices...There is virtually *NO* personal economic mobility...Disposable income is nearly non-existent...Norway has the wealth of nationalized North Sea crude oil to support their welfare state.

But I guess they live in very nice gilded cages.


----------



## Toro

anynameyouwish said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent piece by a Venezuelan liberal saying how clueless the knee-jerk anti-Americans are about Venezuela.
> 
> Opinion | What My Fellow Liberals Don’t Get About Venezuela
> 
> In the video, because of two decades of Chavez and Maduro rule, she says
> 
> 
> There is total chaos in Venezuela - hunger, lack of medicines and power black-outs
> Liberals are promoting and glorifying a brutal dictator
> Inflation is at 2,690,000%.  Venezuelan money is so worthless, people are literally making origami out of it.
> 
> Malnutrition and lack of medicine has caused life expectancy to decline by 3 to 5 years.
> 
> 3,000,000 million have fled the country causing a Syria-level refugee crisis
> 
> Things have gotten so bad that kidnappers have stopped kidnapping because people can't pay ransoms
> The Left blame American sanctions for economic collapse.  But the economy collapsed in 2016, before sanctions against Venezuelan oil companies were imposed.
> The only sanctions at that time were travel-bans and frozen bank accounts of individuals who were connected to the government and had stolen billions of dollars.
> Leftists who think the country is doing fine are on another planet
> American sanctions are to restore Venezuelan democracy.
> 
> Fifty-one countries recently recognized the opposition leader, Juan Guaido as the interim President after the Maduro government fraudulently stored the last election
> Guaido is not a conservative.  He is a social democrat.
> If there's one value liberal America appreciates, it's human rights.  So liberals have to stop their moral relativism regarding Venezuela.
> American liberals should support humanitarian aid and efforts to restore democracy in Venezuela.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What YOU don't get about liberals!
> 
> We do NOT want to be like VENEZUELA!
> 
> YOU are the (%&%?$#%^&) who keep TELLING US that WE WANT TO BE LIKE VENEZUELA!
> 
> We keep telling you;  "no no!  not venezuela!  FINLAND, NORWAY, SWEDEN!"
> 
> Can we talk about Finland and Norway?
> 
> I don't mean to offend but I'd like to know what the fuk is wrong with the brain  of a person who keeps claiming "liberals want to be like venezuela" when we keep telling you we don't!
Click to expand...


That wasn’t the subject of the OP, Karl.


----------



## Lucy Hamilton

Toro said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I used to think that Pinochet was a Bad Guy.  After this, maybe helicopter rides aren't such a bad idea after all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, you know it’s funny. I’ve never supported coups before. But After the absolute incompetence of two decades of socialist rule, you can make a strong humanitarian argument for it.
Click to expand...


The only solution now is the overthrow of the Maduro Government and the complete removal of Maduro, I see no other option. The Venezuelans are in an humanitarian crisis of epic levels.


----------



## OldLady

Lucy Hamilton said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anynameyouwish said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent piece by a Venezuelan liberal saying how clueless the knee-jerk anti-Americans are about Venezuela.
> 
> Opinion | What My Fellow Liberals Don’t Get About Venezuela
> 
> In the video, because of two decades of Chavez and Maduro rule, she says
> 
> 
> There is total chaos in Venezuela - hunger, lack of medicines and power black-outs
> Liberals are promoting and glorifying a brutal dictator
> Inflation is at 2,690,000%.  Venezuelan money is so worthless, people are literally making origami out of it.
> 
> Malnutrition and lack of medicine has caused life expectancy to decline by 3 to 5 years.
> 
> 3,000,000 million have fled the country causing a Syria-level refugee crisis
> 
> Things have gotten so bad that kidnappers have stopped kidnapping because people can't pay ransoms
> The Left blame American sanctions for economic collapse.  But the economy collapsed in 2016, before sanctions against Venezuelan oil companies were imposed.
> The only sanctions at that time were travel-bans and frozen bank accounts of individuals who were connected to the government and had stolen billions of dollars.
> Leftists who think the country is doing fine are on another planet
> American sanctions are to restore Venezuelan democracy.
> 
> Fifty-one countries recently recognized the opposition leader, Juan Guaido as the interim President after the Maduro government fraudulently stored the last election
> Guaido is not a conservative.  He is a social democrat.
> If there's one value liberal America appreciates, it's human rights.  So liberals have to stop their moral relativism regarding Venezuela.
> American liberals should support humanitarian aid and efforts to restore democracy in Venezuela.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What YOU don't get about liberals!
> 
> We do NOT want to be like VENEZUELA!
> 
> YOU are the (%&%?$#%^&) who keep TELLING US that WE WANT TO BE LIKE VENEZUELA!
> 
> We keep telling you;  "no no!  not venezuela!  FINLAND, NORWAY, SWEDEN!"
> 
> Can we talk about Finland and Norway?
> 
> I don't mean to offend but I'd like to know what the fuk is wrong with the brain  of a person who keeps claiming "liberals want to be like venezuela" when we keep telling you we don't!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought the Venezuelan in the OP was talking about the anti-American left IN HER OWN COUNTRY.  Obviously, at least from what I've seen here, the left doesn't support that Maduro government at all.  That's probably because the left in this country isn't actually socialist/communist as we are always being blamed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *"the left doesn't support that Maduro government at all."*
> 
> But they do support Maduro and the International Left do support Maduro, just like they all supported Chavez and Castro in Cuba etc. With Venezuela they all insist the disaster in Venezuela has ZERO to do with Maduro or Chavez and it is all because of falling oil prices combined with the sanctions which is totally not correct on any level.
Click to expand...

huh.  Considering you think the left all support terrorists, too, Lucy, I hesitate to take your word for it.  Forgive me.


----------



## OldLady

Lucy Hamilton said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I used to think that Pinochet was a Bad Guy.  After this, maybe helicopter rides aren't such a bad idea after all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, you know it’s funny. I’ve never supported coups before. But After the absolute incompetence of two decades of socialist rule, you can make a strong humanitarian argument for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only solution now is the overthrow of the Maduro Government and the complete removal of Maduro, I see no other option. The Venezuelans are in an humanitarian crisis of epic levels.
Click to expand...

You Austrians going to do that?


----------



## Oddball

OldLady said:


> huh.  Considering you think the left all support terrorists, too, Lucy, I hesitate to take your word for it.  Forgive me.


Y'all do support terrorists...To my recollection, not a one of you moonbats have ever spoken out against the antifa goon squad riots.

Instead, you try to blame it all on Trump.


----------



## anynameyouwish

Lucy Hamilton said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anynameyouwish said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent piece by a Venezuelan liberal saying how clueless the knee-jerk anti-Americans are about Venezuela.
> 
> Opinion | What My Fellow Liberals Don’t Get About Venezuela
> 
> In the video, because of two decades of Chavez and Maduro rule, she says
> 
> 
> There is total chaos in Venezuela - hunger, lack of medicines and power black-outs
> Liberals are promoting and glorifying a brutal dictator
> Inflation is at 2,690,000%.  Venezuelan money is so worthless, people are literally making origami out of it.
> 
> Malnutrition and lack of medicine has caused life expectancy to decline by 3 to 5 years.
> 
> 3,000,000 million have fled the country causing a Syria-level refugee crisis
> 
> Things have gotten so bad that kidnappers have stopped kidnapping because people can't pay ransoms
> The Left blame American sanctions for economic collapse.  But the economy collapsed in 2016, before sanctions against Venezuelan oil companies were imposed.
> The only sanctions at that time were travel-bans and frozen bank accounts of individuals who were connected to the government and had stolen billions of dollars.
> Leftists who think the country is doing fine are on another planet
> American sanctions are to restore Venezuelan democracy.
> 
> Fifty-one countries recently recognized the opposition leader, Juan Guaido as the interim President after the Maduro government fraudulently stored the last election
> Guaido is not a conservative.  He is a social democrat.
> If there's one value liberal America appreciates, it's human rights.  So liberals have to stop their moral relativism regarding Venezuela.
> American liberals should support humanitarian aid and efforts to restore democracy in Venezuela.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What YOU don't get about liberals!
> 
> We do NOT want to be like VENEZUELA!
> 
> YOU are the (%&%?$#%^&) who keep TELLING US that WE WANT TO BE LIKE VENEZUELA!
> 
> We keep telling you;  "no no!  not venezuela!  FINLAND, NORWAY, SWEDEN!"
> 
> Can we talk about Finland and Norway?
> 
> I don't mean to offend but I'd like to know what the fuk is wrong with the brain  of a person who keeps claiming "liberals want to be like venezuela" when we keep telling you we don't!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought the Venezuelan in the OP was talking about the anti-American left IN HER OWN COUNTRY.  Obviously, at least from what I've seen here, the left doesn't support that Maduro government at all.  That's probably because the left in this country isn't actually socialist/communist as we are always being blamed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *"the left doesn't support that Maduro government at all."*
> 
> But they do support Maduro and the International Left do support Maduro, just like they all supported Chavez and Castro in Cuba etc. With Venezuela they all insist the disaster in Venezuela has ZERO to do with Maduro or Chavez and it is all because of falling oil prices combined with the sanctions which is totally not correct on any level.
Click to expand...



to conservatives (it seems to me, judging by their own words) EVERYONE to the LEFT of LIMBAUGH is a LEFTIST!

As a lib/prog who opposes left wing extremism as much as I oppose right wing extremism I wish to thank you for being so fkn smart that YOU know what I BELIEVE and are so fkn kind that you are willing to inform me!

Thanks!

Now could you please tell me what I think about coke versus pepsi?


----------



## anynameyouwish

Lucy Hamilton said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I used to think that Pinochet was a Bad Guy.  After this, maybe helicopter rides aren't such a bad idea after all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, you know it’s funny. I’ve never supported coups before. But After the absolute incompetence of two decades of socialist rule, you can make a strong humanitarian argument for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only solution now is the overthrow of the Maduro Government and the complete removal of Maduro, I see no other option. The Venezuelans are in an humanitarian crisis of epic levels.
Click to expand...


Ok

have at it!

I see trump told the russians to get out of venezuela.....a week ago.....

Have they gone yet?


----------



## flack

Sadly libtards never learn.


----------



## Oddball

anynameyouwish said:


> to conservatives (it seems to me, judging by their own words) EVERYONE to the LEFT of LIMBAUGH is a LEFTIST!
> 
> As a lib/prog who opposes left wing extremism as much as I oppose right wing extremism I wish to thank you for being so fkn smart that YOU know what I BELIEVE and are so fkn kind that you are willing to inform me!
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Now could you please tell me what I think about coke versus pepsi?


If you're claiming the progressive label, *you are* an extremist.


----------



## Votto

Oddball said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> huh.  Considering you think the left all support terrorists, too, Lucy, I hesitate to take your word for it.  Forgive me.
> 
> 
> 
> Y'all do support terrorists...To my recollection, not a one of you moonbats have ever spoken out against the antifa goon squad riots.
> 
> Instead, you try to blame it all on Trump.
Click to expand...


That's because Trump is a Putin White Supremacist space alien Hitler man.

Why would they trust him?


----------



## Aponi

Toro said:


> Excellent piece by a Venezuelan liberal saying how clueless the knee-jerk anti-Americans are about Venezuela.
> 
> Opinion | What My Fellow Liberals Don’t Get About Venezuela
> 
> In the video, because of two decades of Chavez and Maduro rule, she says
> 
> 
> There is total chaos in Venezuela - hunger, lack of medicines and power black-outs
> Liberals are promoting and glorifying a brutal dictator
> Inflation is at 2,690,000%.  Venezuelan money is so worthless, people are literally making origami out of it.
> 
> Malnutrition and lack of medicine has caused life expectancy to decline by 3 to 5 years.
> 
> 3,000,000 million have fled the country causing a Syria-level refugee crisis
> 
> Things have gotten so bad that kidnappers have stopped kidnapping because people can't pay ransoms
> The Left blame American sanctions for economic collapse.  But the economy collapsed in 2016, before sanctions against Venezuelan oil companies were imposed.
> The only sanctions at that time were travel-bans and frozen bank accounts of individuals who were connected to the government and had stolen billions of dollars.
> Leftists who think the country is doing fine are on another planet
> American sanctions are to restore Venezuelan democracy.
> 
> Fifty-one countries recently recognized the opposition leader, Juan Guaido as the interim President after the Maduro government fraudulently stored the last election
> Guaido is not a conservative.  He is a social democrat.
> If there's one value liberal America appreciates, it's human rights.  So liberals have to stop their moral relativism regarding Venezuela.
> American liberals should support humanitarian aid and efforts to restore democracy in Venezuela.


Hopefully some of your fellow liberals will view this and get smart . its a good post .


----------



## Aponi

Votto said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> huh.  Considering you think the left all support terrorists, too, Lucy, I hesitate to take your word for it.  Forgive me.
> 
> 
> 
> Y'all do support terrorists...To my recollection, not a one of you moonbats have ever spoken out against the antifa goon squad riots.
> 
> Instead, you try to blame it all on Trump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because Trump is a Putin White Supremacist space alien Hitler man.
> 
> Why would they trust him?
Click to expand...

I.I see you have a severe case of Trump derangement syndrome


----------



## Oldstyle

OldLady said:


> anynameyouwish said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent piece by a Venezuelan liberal saying how clueless the knee-jerk anti-Americans are about Venezuela.
> 
> Opinion | What My Fellow Liberals Don’t Get About Venezuela
> 
> In the video, because of two decades of Chavez and Maduro rule, she says
> 
> 
> There is total chaos in Venezuela - hunger, lack of medicines and power black-outs
> Liberals are promoting and glorifying a brutal dictator
> Inflation is at 2,690,000%.  Venezuelan money is so worthless, people are literally making origami out of it.
> 
> Malnutrition and lack of medicine has caused life expectancy to decline by 3 to 5 years.
> 
> 3,000,000 million have fled the country causing a Syria-level refugee crisis
> 
> Things have gotten so bad that kidnappers have stopped kidnapping because people can't pay ransoms
> The Left blame American sanctions for economic collapse.  But the economy collapsed in 2016, before sanctions against Venezuelan oil companies were imposed.
> The only sanctions at that time were travel-bans and frozen bank accounts of individuals who were connected to the government and had stolen billions of dollars.
> Leftists who think the country is doing fine are on another planet
> American sanctions are to restore Venezuelan democracy.
> 
> Fifty-one countries recently recognized the opposition leader, Juan Guaido as the interim President after the Maduro government fraudulently stored the last election
> Guaido is not a conservative.  He is a social democrat.
> If there's one value liberal America appreciates, it's human rights.  So liberals have to stop their moral relativism regarding Venezuela.
> American liberals should support humanitarian aid and efforts to restore democracy in Venezuela.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What YOU don't get about liberals!
> 
> We do NOT want to be like VENEZUELA!
> 
> YOU are the (%&%?$#%^&) who keep TELLING US that WE WANT TO BE LIKE VENEZUELA!
> 
> We keep telling you;  "no no!  not venezuela!  FINLAND, NORWAY, SWEDEN!"
> 
> Can we talk about Finland and Norway?
> 
> I don't mean to offend but I'd like to know what the fuk is wrong with the brain  of a person who keeps claiming "liberals want to be like venezuela" when we keep telling you we don't!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought the Venezuelan in the OP was talking about the anti-American left IN HER OWN COUNTRY.  Obviously, at least from what I've seen here, the left doesn't support that Maduro government at all.  That's probably because the left in this country isn't actually socialist/communist as we are always being blamed.
Click to expand...


I'm pretty sure the post before yours was from a liberal that was calling for the US to become a Socialist country like Finland, Norway and Sweden, Old Lady!  I'm also pretty sure that the majority of liberals here would like to see a government run healthcare system as well as a "living wage"!  My point is that you don't want to be CALLED Socialists and yet you'd like to see a socialistic agenda passed!


----------



## TNHarley

anynameyouwish said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent piece by a Venezuelan liberal saying how clueless the knee-jerk anti-Americans are about Venezuela.
> 
> Opinion | What My Fellow Liberals Don’t Get About Venezuela
> 
> In the video, because of two decades of Chavez and Maduro rule, she says
> 
> 
> There is total chaos in Venezuela - hunger, lack of medicines and power black-outs
> Liberals are promoting and glorifying a brutal dictator
> Inflation is at 2,690,000%.  Venezuelan money is so worthless, people are literally making origami out of it.
> 
> Malnutrition and lack of medicine has caused life expectancy to decline by 3 to 5 years.
> 
> 3,000,000 million have fled the country causing a Syria-level refugee crisis
> 
> Things have gotten so bad that kidnappers have stopped kidnapping because people can't pay ransoms
> The Left blame American sanctions for economic collapse.  But the economy collapsed in 2016, before sanctions against Venezuelan oil companies were imposed.
> The only sanctions at that time were travel-bans and frozen bank accounts of individuals who were connected to the government and had stolen billions of dollars.
> Leftists who think the country is doing fine are on another planet
> American sanctions are to restore Venezuelan democracy.
> 
> Fifty-one countries recently recognized the opposition leader, Juan Guaido as the interim President after the Maduro government fraudulently stored the last election
> Guaido is not a conservative.  He is a social democrat.
> If there's one value liberal America appreciates, it's human rights.  So liberals have to stop their moral relativism regarding Venezuela.
> American liberals should support humanitarian aid and efforts to restore democracy in Venezuela.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What YOU don't get about liberals!
> 
> We do NOT want to be like VENEZUELA!
> 
> YOU are the (%&%?$#%^&) who keep TELLING US that WE WANT TO BE LIKE VENEZUELA!
> 
> We keep telling you;  "no no!  not venezuela!  FINLAND, NORWAY, SWEDEN!"
> 
> Can we talk about Finland and Norway?
> 
> I don't mean to offend but I'd like to know what the fuk is wrong with the brain  of a person who keeps claiming "liberals want to be like venezuela" when we keep telling you we don't!
Click to expand...

You support abusing power to get the welfare programs you want. Thats close enough, by any standard.


----------



## Pete7469

Oddball said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> huh.  Considering you think the left all support terrorists, too, Lucy, I hesitate to take your word for it.  Forgive me.
> 
> 
> 
> Y'all do support terrorists...To my recollection, not a one of you moonbats have ever spoken out against the antifa goon squad riots.
> 
> Instead, you try to blame it all on Trump.
Click to expand...


As far as I'm concerned they all ARE TERRORISTS. They support armed robbery by government, politically motivated prosecution, the use of government force to coerce citizens to behave according to social justice warrior whims and the destruction of religious symbols and monuments even when they're on private property. If you ask me the left is the taliban without the burkhas.


----------



## OldLady

Toro said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I used to think that Pinochet was a Bad Guy.  After this, maybe helicopter rides aren't such a bad idea after all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, you know it’s funny. I’ve never supported coups before. But After the absolute incompetence of two decades of socialist rule, you can make a strong humanitarian argument for it.
Click to expand...

Yes, when people start starving, there's bound to be trouble.  Do you think we should be involved in this coup?


----------



## TNHarley

OldLady said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I used to think that Pinochet was a Bad Guy.  After this, maybe helicopter rides aren't such a bad idea after all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, you know it’s funny. I’ve never supported coups before. But After the absolute incompetence of two decades of socialist rule, you can make a strong humanitarian argument for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, when people start starving, there's bound to be trouble.  Do you think we should be involved in this coup?
Click to expand...

Nope


----------



## HenryBHough

Now watch for leftist rallies to have murderous helicopters banned.


----------



## OldLady

Oldstyle said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anynameyouwish said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent piece by a Venezuelan liberal saying how clueless the knee-jerk anti-Americans are about Venezuela.
> 
> Opinion | What My Fellow Liberals Don’t Get About Venezuela
> 
> In the video, because of two decades of Chavez and Maduro rule, she says
> 
> 
> There is total chaos in Venezuela - hunger, lack of medicines and power black-outs
> Liberals are promoting and glorifying a brutal dictator
> Inflation is at 2,690,000%.  Venezuelan money is so worthless, people are literally making origami out of it.
> 
> Malnutrition and lack of medicine has caused life expectancy to decline by 3 to 5 years.
> 
> 3,000,000 million have fled the country causing a Syria-level refugee crisis
> 
> Things have gotten so bad that kidnappers have stopped kidnapping because people can't pay ransoms
> The Left blame American sanctions for economic collapse.  But the economy collapsed in 2016, before sanctions against Venezuelan oil companies were imposed.
> The only sanctions at that time were travel-bans and frozen bank accounts of individuals who were connected to the government and had stolen billions of dollars.
> Leftists who think the country is doing fine are on another planet
> American sanctions are to restore Venezuelan democracy.
> 
> Fifty-one countries recently recognized the opposition leader, Juan Guaido as the interim President after the Maduro government fraudulently stored the last election
> Guaido is not a conservative.  He is a social democrat.
> If there's one value liberal America appreciates, it's human rights.  So liberals have to stop their moral relativism regarding Venezuela.
> American liberals should support humanitarian aid and efforts to restore democracy in Venezuela.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What YOU don't get about liberals!
> 
> We do NOT want to be like VENEZUELA!
> 
> YOU are the (%&%?$#%^&) who keep TELLING US that WE WANT TO BE LIKE VENEZUELA!
> 
> We keep telling you;  "no no!  not venezuela!  FINLAND, NORWAY, SWEDEN!"
> 
> Can we talk about Finland and Norway?
> 
> I don't mean to offend but I'd like to know what the fuk is wrong with the brain  of a person who keeps claiming "liberals want to be like venezuela" when we keep telling you we don't!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought the Venezuelan in the OP was talking about the anti-American left IN HER OWN COUNTRY.  Obviously, at least from what I've seen here, the left doesn't support that Maduro government at all.  That's probably because the left in this country isn't actually socialist/communist as we are always being blamed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure the post before yours was from a liberal that was calling for the US to become a Socialist country like Finland, Norway and Sweden, Old Lady!  I'm also pretty sure that the majority of liberals here would like to see a government run healthcare system as well as a "living wage"!  My point is that you don't want to be CALLED Socialists and yet you'd like to see a socialistic agenda passed!
Click to expand...







Not seeing Items 1 or 2 above.  We have a "mixed" system that includes socialist programs to benefit the poor but we are still a capitalist nation.  Maybe a mixture is the best solution, since either system in its pure form is open to great abuses.
Just note that what one poster here advocates does not automatically make it part of the Democratic platform.


----------



## Tehon

Toro said:


> Excellent piece by a Venezuelan liberal saying how clueless the knee-jerk anti-Americans are about Venezuela.
> 
> Opinion | What My Fellow Liberals Don’t Get About Venezuela
> 
> In the video, because of two decades of Chavez and Maduro rule, she says
> 
> 
> There is total chaos in Venezuela - hunger, lack of medicines and power black-outs
> Liberals are promoting and glorifying a brutal dictator
> Inflation is at 2,690,000%.  Venezuelan money is so worthless, people are literally making origami out of it.
> 
> Malnutrition and lack of medicine has caused life expectancy to decline by 3 to 5 years.
> 
> 3,000,000 million have fled the country causing a Syria-level refugee crisis
> 
> Things have gotten so bad that kidnappers have stopped kidnapping because people can't pay ransoms
> The Left blame American sanctions for economic collapse.  But the economy collapsed in 2016, before sanctions against Venezuelan oil companies were imposed.
> The only sanctions at that time were travel-bans and frozen bank accounts of individuals who were connected to the government and had stolen billions of dollars.
> Leftists who think the country is doing fine are on another planet
> American sanctions are to restore Venezuelan democracy.
> 
> Fifty-one countries recently recognized the opposition leader, Juan Guaido as the interim President after the Maduro government fraudulently stored the last election
> Guaido is not a conservative.  He is a social democrat.
> If there's one value liberal America appreciates, it's human rights.  So liberals have to stop their moral relativism regarding Venezuela.
> American liberals should support humanitarian aid and efforts to restore democracy in Venezuela.


The fundamental principle that our country was founded on was the right to self determination. Our founding document conveys that very message. You can't call yourself a liberal and ignore it.


----------



## Oldstyle

OldLady said:


> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anynameyouwish said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent piece by a Venezuelan liberal saying how clueless the knee-jerk anti-Americans are about Venezuela.
> 
> Opinion | What My Fellow Liberals Don’t Get About Venezuela
> 
> In the video, because of two decades of Chavez and Maduro rule, she says
> 
> 
> There is total chaos in Venezuela - hunger, lack of medicines and power black-outs
> Liberals are promoting and glorifying a brutal dictator
> Inflation is at 2,690,000%.  Venezuelan money is so worthless, people are literally making origami out of it.
> 
> Malnutrition and lack of medicine has caused life expectancy to decline by 3 to 5 years.
> 
> 3,000,000 million have fled the country causing a Syria-level refugee crisis
> 
> Things have gotten so bad that kidnappers have stopped kidnapping because people can't pay ransoms
> The Left blame American sanctions for economic collapse.  But the economy collapsed in 2016, before sanctions against Venezuelan oil companies were imposed.
> The only sanctions at that time were travel-bans and frozen bank accounts of individuals who were connected to the government and had stolen billions of dollars.
> Leftists who think the country is doing fine are on another planet
> American sanctions are to restore Venezuelan democracy.
> 
> Fifty-one countries recently recognized the opposition leader, Juan Guaido as the interim President after the Maduro government fraudulently stored the last election
> Guaido is not a conservative.  He is a social democrat.
> If there's one value liberal America appreciates, it's human rights.  So liberals have to stop their moral relativism regarding Venezuela.
> American liberals should support humanitarian aid and efforts to restore democracy in Venezuela.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What YOU don't get about liberals!
> 
> We do NOT want to be like VENEZUELA!
> 
> YOU are the (%&%?$#%^&) who keep TELLING US that WE WANT TO BE LIKE VENEZUELA!
> 
> We keep telling you;  "no no!  not venezuela!  FINLAND, NORWAY, SWEDEN!"
> 
> Can we talk about Finland and Norway?
> 
> I don't mean to offend but I'd like to know what the fuk is wrong with the brain  of a person who keeps claiming "liberals want to be like venezuela" when we keep telling you we don't!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought the Venezuelan in the OP was talking about the anti-American left IN HER OWN COUNTRY.  Obviously, at least from what I've seen here, the left doesn't support that Maduro government at all.  That's probably because the left in this country isn't actually socialist/communist as we are always being blamed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure the post before yours was from a liberal that was calling for the US to become a Socialist country like Finland, Norway and Sweden, Old Lady!  I'm also pretty sure that the majority of liberals here would like to see a government run healthcare system as well as a "living wage"!  My point is that you don't want to be CALLED Socialists and yet you'd like to see a socialistic agenda passed!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not seeing Items 1 or 2 above.  We have a "mixed" system that includes socialist programs to benefit the poor but we are still a capitalist nation.  Maybe a mixture is the best solution, since either system in its pure form is open to great abuses.
> Just note that what one poster here advocates does not automatically make it part of the Democratic platform.
Click to expand...


Would you admit that the Democratic platform is veering to the left rather dramatically right now?  Would it be an exaggeration to see this as a moment that could be a turning point in US political history?  The progressive wing of the Democratic Party is demanding things that have moderate Democrats running for the hills.  So who wins that battle?


----------



## iamwhatiseem

Oldstyle said:


> Would you admit that the Democratic platform is veering to the left rather dramatically right now?  Would it be an exaggeration to see this as a moment that could be a turning point in US political history?  The progressive wing of the Democratic Party is demanding things that have moderate Democrats running for the hills.  So who wins that battle?



What I have been trying to say, everyone is underestimating AOC and her fellow leftist. Making memes, laughing at the ghastly ignorant statements and claims is indeed easy to do - but they forget that millennials are also voters. And too many of them are leftist...course they really have absolutely no idea what that really is...but enough to vote for them.


----------



## OldLady

Oldstyle said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anynameyouwish said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent piece by a Venezuelan liberal saying how clueless the knee-jerk anti-Americans are about Venezuela.
> 
> Opinion | What My Fellow Liberals Don’t Get About Venezuela
> 
> In the video, because of two decades of Chavez and Maduro rule, she says
> 
> 
> There is total chaos in Venezuela - hunger, lack of medicines and power black-outs
> Liberals are promoting and glorifying a brutal dictator
> Inflation is at 2,690,000%.  Venezuelan money is so worthless, people are literally making origami out of it.
> 
> Malnutrition and lack of medicine has caused life expectancy to decline by 3 to 5 years.
> 
> 3,000,000 million have fled the country causing a Syria-level refugee crisis
> 
> Things have gotten so bad that kidnappers have stopped kidnapping because people can't pay ransoms
> The Left blame American sanctions for economic collapse.  But the economy collapsed in 2016, before sanctions against Venezuelan oil companies were imposed.
> The only sanctions at that time were travel-bans and frozen bank accounts of individuals who were connected to the government and had stolen billions of dollars.
> Leftists who think the country is doing fine are on another planet
> American sanctions are to restore Venezuelan democracy.
> 
> Fifty-one countries recently recognized the opposition leader, Juan Guaido as the interim President after the Maduro government fraudulently stored the last election
> Guaido is not a conservative.  He is a social democrat.
> If there's one value liberal America appreciates, it's human rights.  So liberals have to stop their moral relativism regarding Venezuela.
> American liberals should support humanitarian aid and efforts to restore democracy in Venezuela.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What YOU don't get about liberals!
> 
> We do NOT want to be like VENEZUELA!
> 
> YOU are the (%&%?$#%^&) who keep TELLING US that WE WANT TO BE LIKE VENEZUELA!
> 
> We keep telling you;  "no no!  not venezuela!  FINLAND, NORWAY, SWEDEN!"
> 
> Can we talk about Finland and Norway?
> 
> I don't mean to offend but I'd like to know what the fuk is wrong with the brain  of a person who keeps claiming "liberals want to be like venezuela" when we keep telling you we don't!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought the Venezuelan in the OP was talking about the anti-American left IN HER OWN COUNTRY.  Obviously, at least from what I've seen here, the left doesn't support that Maduro government at all.  That's probably because the left in this country isn't actually socialist/communist as we are always being blamed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure the post before yours was from a liberal that was calling for the US to become a Socialist country like Finland, Norway and Sweden, Old Lady!  I'm also pretty sure that the majority of liberals here would like to see a government run healthcare system as well as a "living wage"!  My point is that you don't want to be CALLED Socialists and yet you'd like to see a socialistic agenda passed!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not seeing Items 1 or 2 above.  We have a "mixed" system that includes socialist programs to benefit the poor but we are still a capitalist nation.  Maybe a mixture is the best solution, since either system in its pure form is open to great abuses.
> Just note that what one poster here advocates does not automatically make it part of the Democratic platform.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Would you admit that the Democratic platform is veering to the left rather dramatically right now?  Would it be an exaggeration to see this as a moment that could be a turning point in US political history?  The progressive wing of the Democratic Party is demanding things that have moderate Democrats running for the hills.  So who wins that battle?
Click to expand...

Most people have sense.  There are a lot more "moderates," left and right, than there are extremists.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

OldLady said:


> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anynameyouwish said:
> 
> 
> 
> What YOU don't get about liberals!
> 
> We do NOT want to be like VENEZUELA!
> 
> YOU are the (%&%?$#%^&) who keep TELLING US that WE WANT TO BE LIKE VENEZUELA!
> 
> We keep telling you;  "no no!  not venezuela!  FINLAND, NORWAY, SWEDEN!"
> 
> Can we talk about Finland and Norway?
> 
> I don't mean to offend but I'd like to know what the fuk is wrong with the brain  of a person who keeps claiming "liberals want to be like venezuela" when we keep telling you we don't!
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the Venezuelan in the OP was talking about the anti-American left IN HER OWN COUNTRY.  Obviously, at least from what I've seen here, the left doesn't support that Maduro government at all.  That's probably because the left in this country isn't actually socialist/communist as we are always being blamed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure the post before yours was from a liberal that was calling for the US to become a Socialist country like Finland, Norway and Sweden, Old Lady!  I'm also pretty sure that the majority of liberals here would like to see a government run healthcare system as well as a "living wage"!  My point is that you don't want to be CALLED Socialists and yet you'd like to see a socialistic agenda passed!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not seeing Items 1 or 2 above.  We have a "mixed" system that includes socialist programs to benefit the poor but we are still a capitalist nation.  Maybe a mixture is the best solution, since either system in its pure form is open to great abuses.
> Just note that what one poster here advocates does not automatically make it part of the Democratic platform.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Would you admit that the Democratic platform is veering to the left rather dramatically right now?  Would it be an exaggeration to see this as a moment that could be a turning point in US political history?  The progressive wing of the Democratic Party is demanding things that have moderate Democrats running for the hills.  So who wins that battle?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most people have sense.  There are a lot more "moderates," left and right, than there are extremists.
Click to expand...


I certainly would have agreed with you even 5 years ago.
There is a large under current of 20 somethings that are way the hell out there. Perhaps not to the level of the 60's, but not that far away from it.
There is a growing, and increasingly strong leftist branch for the past 10 years that is getting more and more.


----------



## OldLady

iamwhatiseem said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the Venezuelan in the OP was talking about the anti-American left IN HER OWN COUNTRY.  Obviously, at least from what I've seen here, the left doesn't support that Maduro government at all.  That's probably because the left in this country isn't actually socialist/communist as we are always being blamed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure the post before yours was from a liberal that was calling for the US to become a Socialist country like Finland, Norway and Sweden, Old Lady!  I'm also pretty sure that the majority of liberals here would like to see a government run healthcare system as well as a "living wage"!  My point is that you don't want to be CALLED Socialists and yet you'd like to see a socialistic agenda passed!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not seeing Items 1 or 2 above.  We have a "mixed" system that includes socialist programs to benefit the poor but we are still a capitalist nation.  Maybe a mixture is the best solution, since either system in its pure form is open to great abuses.
> Just note that what one poster here advocates does not automatically make it part of the Democratic platform.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Would you admit that the Democratic platform is veering to the left rather dramatically right now?  Would it be an exaggeration to see this as a moment that could be a turning point in US political history?  The progressive wing of the Democratic Party is demanding things that have moderate Democrats running for the hills.  So who wins that battle?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most people have sense.  There are a lot more "moderates," left and right, than there are extremists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly would have agreed with you even 5 years ago.
> There is a large under current of 20 somethings that are way the hell out there. Perhaps not to the level of the 60's, but not that far away from it.
> There is a growing, and increasingly strong leftist branch for the past 10 years that is getting more and more.
Click to expand...

I'm not at all happy with what has happened on the far right, either.  Maybe the two extremes will eat each other.


----------



## Tehon

OldLady said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure the post before yours was from a liberal that was calling for the US to become a Socialist country like Finland, Norway and Sweden, Old Lady!  I'm also pretty sure that the majority of liberals here would like to see a government run healthcare system as well as a "living wage"!  My point is that you don't want to be CALLED Socialists and yet you'd like to see a socialistic agenda passed!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not seeing Items 1 or 2 above.  We have a "mixed" system that includes socialist programs to benefit the poor but we are still a capitalist nation.  Maybe a mixture is the best solution, since either system in its pure form is open to great abuses.
> Just note that what one poster here advocates does not automatically make it part of the Democratic platform.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Would you admit that the Democratic platform is veering to the left rather dramatically right now?  Would it be an exaggeration to see this as a moment that could be a turning point in US political history?  The progressive wing of the Democratic Party is demanding things that have moderate Democrats running for the hills.  So who wins that battle?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most people have sense.  There are a lot more "moderates," left and right, than there are extremists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly would have agreed with you even 5 years ago.
> There is a large under current of 20 somethings that are way the hell out there. Perhaps not to the level of the 60's, but not that far away from it.
> There is a growing, and increasingly strong leftist branch for the past 10 years that is getting more and more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not at all happy with what has happened on the far right, either.  Maybe the two extremes will eat each other.
Click to expand...

It's more likely that the extremes will eat the moderate.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

OldLady said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure the post before yours was from a liberal that was calling for the US to become a Socialist country like Finland, Norway and Sweden, Old Lady!  I'm also pretty sure that the majority of liberals here would like to see a government run healthcare system as well as a "living wage"!  My point is that you don't want to be CALLED Socialists and yet you'd like to see a socialistic agenda passed!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not seeing Items 1 or 2 above.  We have a "mixed" system that includes socialist programs to benefit the poor but we are still a capitalist nation.  Maybe a mixture is the best solution, since either system in its pure form is open to great abuses.
> Just note that what one poster here advocates does not automatically make it part of the Democratic platform.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Would you admit that the Democratic platform is veering to the left rather dramatically right now?  Would it be an exaggeration to see this as a moment that could be a turning point in US political history?  The progressive wing of the Democratic Party is demanding things that have moderate Democrats running for the hills.  So who wins that battle?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most people have sense.  There are a lot more "moderates," left and right, than there are extremists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly would have agreed with you even 5 years ago.
> There is a large under current of 20 somethings that are way the hell out there. Perhaps not to the level of the 60's, but not that far away from it.
> There is a growing, and increasingly strong leftist branch for the past 10 years that is getting more and more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not at all happy with what has happened on the far right, either.  Maybe the two extremes will eat each other.
Click to expand...


That would be nice, but the far right has 1/10th the influence the far left does.
Course that depends on what one calls far right. I guess there are those that think any farther to the right than Joe Lieberman is.
Me, I am far more concerned with the corruption of corporatism and the continual takeover of America by the investor class. They do 1,000 times more damage to our way of life than the far-left/far-right combined..and doubled.


----------



## Indeependent

Toro said:


> Excellent piece by a Venezuelan liberal saying how clueless the knee-jerk anti-Americans are about Venezuela.
> 
> Opinion | What My Fellow Liberals Don’t Get About Venezuela
> 
> In the video, because of two decades of Chavez and Maduro rule, she says
> 
> 
> There is total chaos in Venezuela - hunger, lack of medicines and power black-outs
> Liberals are promoting and glorifying a brutal dictator
> Inflation is at 2,690,000%.  Venezuelan money is so worthless, people are literally making origami out of it.
> 
> Malnutrition and lack of medicine has caused life expectancy to decline by 3 to 5 years.
> 
> 3,000,000 million have fled the country causing a Syria-level refugee crisis
> 
> Things have gotten so bad that kidnappers have stopped kidnapping because people can't pay ransoms
> The Left blame American sanctions for economic collapse.  But the economy collapsed in 2016, before sanctions against Venezuelan oil companies were imposed.
> The only sanctions at that time were travel-bans and frozen bank accounts of individuals who were connected to the government and had stolen billions of dollars.
> Leftists who think the country is doing fine are on another planet
> American sanctions are to restore Venezuelan democracy.
> 
> Fifty-one countries recently recognized the opposition leader, Juan Guaido as the interim President after the Maduro government fraudulently stored the last election
> Guaido is not a conservative.  He is a social democrat.
> If there's one value liberal America appreciates, it's human rights.  So liberals have to stop their moral relativism regarding Venezuela.
> American liberals should support humanitarian aid and efforts to restore democracy in Venezuela.


So what’s the problem?


----------



## Tehon

iamwhatiseem said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not seeing Items 1 or 2 above.  We have a "mixed" system that includes socialist programs to benefit the poor but we are still a capitalist nation.  Maybe a mixture is the best solution, since either system in its pure form is open to great abuses.
> Just note that what one poster here advocates does not automatically make it part of the Democratic platform.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would you admit that the Democratic platform is veering to the left rather dramatically right now?  Would it be an exaggeration to see this as a moment that could be a turning point in US political history?  The progressive wing of the Democratic Party is demanding things that have moderate Democrats running for the hills.  So who wins that battle?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most people have sense.  There are a lot more "moderates," left and right, than there are extremists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly would have agreed with you even 5 years ago.
> There is a large under current of 20 somethings that are way the hell out there. Perhaps not to the level of the 60's, but not that far away from it.
> There is a growing, and increasingly strong leftist branch for the past 10 years that is getting more and more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not at all happy with what has happened on the far right, either.  Maybe the two extremes will eat each other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That would be nice, but the far right has 1/10th the influence the far left does.
> Course that depends on what one calls far right. I guess there are those that think any farther to the right than Joe Lieberman is.
> Me, I am far more concerned with the corruption of corporatism and the continual takeover of America by the investor class. They do 1,000 times more damage to our way of life than the far-left/far-right combined..and doubled.
Click to expand...

Perhaps they, the investor class, are the driving force that pushes people to the extreme.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

Tehon said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would you admit that the Democratic platform is veering to the left rather dramatically right now?  Would it be an exaggeration to see this as a moment that could be a turning point in US political history?  The progressive wing of the Democratic Party is demanding things that have moderate Democrats running for the hills.  So who wins that battle?
> 
> 
> 
> Most people have sense.  There are a lot more "moderates," left and right, than there are extremists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly would have agreed with you even 5 years ago.
> There is a large under current of 20 somethings that are way the hell out there. Perhaps not to the level of the 60's, but not that far away from it.
> There is a growing, and increasingly strong leftist branch for the past 10 years that is getting more and more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not at all happy with what has happened on the far right, either.  Maybe the two extremes will eat each other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That would be nice, but the far right has 1/10th the influence the far left does.
> Course that depends on what one calls far right. I guess there are those that think any farther to the right than Joe Lieberman is.
> Me, I am far more concerned with the corruption of corporatism and the continual takeover of America by the investor class. They do 1,000 times more damage to our way of life than the far-left/far-right combined..and doubled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps they, the investor class, are the driving force that pushes people to the extreme.
Click to expand...


Oh certainly.
I am 54.
When I started my career an actual pension...the real deal.. one that the employee did not contribute one dime into..was included as part of your compensation for pretty much any serious job. Health insurance was a few hundred dollars a month (for family) with a $500 deductible.
 You got actual sick days...wait for it... on TOP of vacation days.
Today, unless you are in the public sector, pensions have all but disappeared.
Employee health insurance share is 4 times what it once was with outrageous deductibles.
Sick days simply disappeared. Vacation days were "renamed" PTO days and sick days vanished.
As well as cost of living raises. It use to be, you got an annual raise, and then a cost of living adjustment on TOP of that. That is unheard of now.
   The middle class has lost so much - AND THE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS have not done fuck all about it for the past 30 years. Indeed Obama did more for the investor class than Reagan himself could have ever dreamed of.

But by all means let's instead talk about the latest Trump outrage and his orange hair.


----------



## Tehon

iamwhatiseem said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most people have sense.  There are a lot more "moderates," left and right, than there are extremists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly would have agreed with you even 5 years ago.
> There is a large under current of 20 somethings that are way the hell out there. Perhaps not to the level of the 60's, but not that far away from it.
> There is a growing, and increasingly strong leftist branch for the past 10 years that is getting more and more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not at all happy with what has happened on the far right, either.  Maybe the two extremes will eat each other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That would be nice, but the far right has 1/10th the influence the far left does.
> Course that depends on what one calls far right. I guess there are those that think any farther to the right than Joe Lieberman is.
> Me, I am far more concerned with the corruption of corporatism and the continual takeover of America by the investor class. They do 1,000 times more damage to our way of life than the far-left/far-right combined..and doubled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps they, the investor class, are the driving force that pushes people to the extreme.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh certainly.
> I am 54.
> When I started my career an actual pension...the real deal.. one that the employee did not contribute one dime into..was included as part of your compensation for pretty much any serious job. Health insurance was a few hundred dollars a month (for family) with a $500 deductible.
> You got actual sick days...wait for it... on TOP of vacation days.
> Today, unless you are in the public sector, pensions have all but disappeared.
> Employee health insurance share is 4 times what it once was with outrageous deductibles.
> Sick days simply disappeared. Vacation days were "renamed" PTO days and sick days vanished.
> As well as cost of living raises. It use to be, you got an annual raise, and then a cost of living adjustment on TOP of that. That is unheard of now.
> The middle class has lost so much - AND THE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS have not done fuck all about it for the past 30 years. Indeed Obama did more for the investor class than Reagan himself could have ever dreamed of.
> 
> But by all means let's instead talk about the latest Trump outrage and his orange hair.
Click to expand...

The politicians can't solve our problems. They use shiny objects to distract people's attention from that fact. The same class of people Trump is enriching, pay into the Democrat party in equal amounts.


----------



## OldLady

Tehon said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not seeing Items 1 or 2 above.  We have a "mixed" system that includes socialist programs to benefit the poor but we are still a capitalist nation.  Maybe a mixture is the best solution, since either system in its pure form is open to great abuses.
> Just note that what one poster here advocates does not automatically make it part of the Democratic platform.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would you admit that the Democratic platform is veering to the left rather dramatically right now?  Would it be an exaggeration to see this as a moment that could be a turning point in US political history?  The progressive wing of the Democratic Party is demanding things that have moderate Democrats running for the hills.  So who wins that battle?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most people have sense.  There are a lot more "moderates," left and right, than there are extremists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly would have agreed with you even 5 years ago.
> There is a large under current of 20 somethings that are way the hell out there. Perhaps not to the level of the 60's, but not that far away from it.
> There is a growing, and increasingly strong leftist branch for the past 10 years that is getting more and more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not at all happy with what has happened on the far right, either.  Maybe the two extremes will eat each other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's more likely that the extremes will eat the moderate.
Click to expand...

Don't you get the vapors, too, Tehon.  You are too sensible for that.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

OldLady said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
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> OldLady said:
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> 
> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would you admit that the Democratic platform is veering to the left rather dramatically right now?  Would it be an exaggeration to see this as a moment that could be a turning point in US political history?  The progressive wing of the Democratic Party is demanding things that have moderate Democrats running for the hills.  So who wins that battle?
> 
> 
> 
> Most people have sense.  There are a lot more "moderates," left and right, than there are extremists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly would have agreed with you even 5 years ago.
> There is a large under current of 20 somethings that are way the hell out there. Perhaps not to the level of the 60's, but not that far away from it.
> There is a growing, and increasingly strong leftist branch for the past 10 years that is getting more and more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not at all happy with what has happened on the far right, either.  Maybe the two extremes will eat each other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's more likely that the extremes will eat the moderate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't you get the vapors, too, Tehon.  You are too sensible for that.
Click to expand...


What exactly is "the vapers"... thinking outside of right vs. left?


----------



## OldLady

iamwhatiseem said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most people have sense.  There are a lot more "moderates," left and right, than there are extremists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly would have agreed with you even 5 years ago.
> There is a large under current of 20 somethings that are way the hell out there. Perhaps not to the level of the 60's, but not that far away from it.
> There is a growing, and increasingly strong leftist branch for the past 10 years that is getting more and more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not at all happy with what has happened on the far right, either.  Maybe the two extremes will eat each other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's more likely that the extremes will eat the moderate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't you get the vapors, too, Tehon.  You are too sensible for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What exactly is "the vapers"... thinking outside of right vs. left?
Click to expand...

It's an old fashioned term for a woman fainting away from some upset.  Women carried smelling salts (they were concentrated ammonia--believe it or not my mother actually had a bottle she carried in her purse and I got them stuck under my nose a time or two).  I suppose that's where the term "vapors" came from.


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## iamwhatiseem

OldLady said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
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> 
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> OldLady said:
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> Tehon said:
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> OldLady said:
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> 
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> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly would have agreed with you even 5 years ago.
> There is a large under current of 20 somethings that are way the hell out there. Perhaps not to the level of the 60's, but not that far away from it.
> There is a growing, and increasingly strong leftist branch for the past 10 years that is getting more and more.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not at all happy with what has happened on the far right, either.  Maybe the two extremes will eat each other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's more likely that the extremes will eat the moderate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't you get the vapors, too, Tehon.  You are too sensible for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What exactly is "the vapers"... thinking outside of right vs. left?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's an old fashioned term for a woman fainting away from some upset.  Women carried smelling salts (they were concentrated ammonia--believe it or not my mother actually had a bottle she carried in her purse and I got them stuck under my nose a time or two).  I suppose that's where the term "vapors" came from.
> 
> View attachment 253481
Click to expand...

 Well that I knew, I mean why did you attribute it to Tehon?


----------



## Tehon

OldLady said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would you admit that the Democratic platform is veering to the left rather dramatically right now?  Would it be an exaggeration to see this as a moment that could be a turning point in US political history?  The progressive wing of the Democratic Party is demanding things that have moderate Democrats running for the hills.  So who wins that battle?
> 
> 
> 
> Most people have sense.  There are a lot more "moderates," left and right, than there are extremists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly would have agreed with you even 5 years ago.
> There is a large under current of 20 somethings that are way the hell out there. Perhaps not to the level of the 60's, but not that far away from it.
> There is a growing, and increasingly strong leftist branch for the past 10 years that is getting more and more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not at all happy with what has happened on the far right, either.  Maybe the two extremes will eat each other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's more likely that the extremes will eat the moderate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't you get the vapors, too, Tehon.  You are too sensible for that.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you are getting at? 

The people moving to the extremes are doing it for a reason. It's up to the sensible people to push past the rhetoric and understand why. It is of no use to sit and wish they would just disappear. 

I think I'm about as far left as one could get. Yet, I can see where the people on the right are coming from. Their anger is real, just misplaced.


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## OldLady

iamwhatiseem said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
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> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not at all happy with what has happened on the far right, either.  Maybe the two extremes will eat each other.
> 
> 
> 
> It's more likely that the extremes will eat the moderate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't you get the vapors, too, Tehon.  You are too sensible for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What exactly is "the vapers"... thinking outside of right vs. left?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's an old fashioned term for a woman fainting away from some upset.  Women carried smelling salts (they were concentrated ammonia--believe it or not my mother actually had a bottle she carried in her purse and I got them stuck under my nose a time or two).  I suppose that's where the term "vapors" came from.
> 
> View attachment 253481
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well that I knew, I mean why did you attribute it to Tehon?
Click to expand...

Oh.  Sorry.  Tehon said he thinks the extremists will eat (destroy) the moderates in our country.  To me that sounded quite alarmist.  He is not usually alarmist.  The extremists will not prevail.  Just like on this board, they just make a whole lot of noise, which makes them seem like more than they are.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

OldLady said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> OldLady said:
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> iamwhatiseem said:
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> 
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> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's more likely that the extremes will eat the moderate.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you get the vapors, too, Tehon.  You are too sensible for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What exactly is "the vapers"... thinking outside of right vs. left?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's an old fashioned term for a woman fainting away from some upset.  Women carried smelling salts (they were concentrated ammonia--believe it or not my mother actually had a bottle she carried in her purse and I got them stuck under my nose a time or two).  I suppose that's where the term "vapors" came from.
> 
> View attachment 253481
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well that I knew, I mean why did you attribute it to Tehon?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh.  Sorry.  Tehon said he thinks the extremists will eat (destroy) the moderates in our country.  To me that sounded quite alarmist.  He is not usually alarmist.  The extremists will not prevail.  Just like on this board, they just make a whole lot of noise, which makes them seem like more than they are.
Click to expand...


OldLady that is exactly what is happening.


----------



## Tehon

OldLady said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
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> OldLady said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's more likely that the extremes will eat the moderate.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you get the vapors, too, Tehon.  You are too sensible for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What exactly is "the vapers"... thinking outside of right vs. left?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's an old fashioned term for a woman fainting away from some upset.  Women carried smelling salts (they were concentrated ammonia--believe it or not my mother actually had a bottle she carried in her purse and I got them stuck under my nose a time or two).  I suppose that's where the term "vapors" came from.
> 
> View attachment 253481
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well that I knew, I mean why did you attribute it to Tehon?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh.  Sorry.  Tehon said he thinks the extremists will eat (destroy) the moderates in our country.  To me that sounded quite alarmist.  He is not usually alarmist.  The extremists will not prevail.  Just like on this board, they just make a whole lot of noise, which makes them seem like more than they are.
Click to expand...

I'm not being alarmist. I was playing off your rhetoric.


----------



## Marion Morrison

Toro said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I used to think that Pinochet was a Bad Guy.  After this, maybe helicopter rides aren't such a bad idea after all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, you know it’s funny. I’ve never supported coups before. But After the absolute incompetence of two decades of socialist rule, you can make a strong humanitarian argument for it.
Click to expand...


Regime change crap never works! It's like Lucy and Charlie Brown with the football.



iamwhatiseem said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
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> 
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> OldLady said:
> 
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> 
> 
> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
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> 
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> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the Venezuelan in the OP was talking about the anti-American left IN HER OWN COUNTRY.  Obviously, at least from what I've seen here, the left doesn't support that Maduro government at all.  That's probably because the left in this country isn't actually socialist/communist as we are always being blamed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure the post before yours was from a liberal that was calling for the US to become a Socialist country like Finland, Norway and Sweden, Old Lady!  I'm also pretty sure that the majority of liberals here would like to see a government run healthcare system as well as a "living wage"!  My point is that you don't want to be CALLED Socialists and yet you'd like to see a socialistic agenda passed!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not seeing Items 1 or 2 above.  We have a "mixed" system that includes socialist programs to benefit the poor but we are still a capitalist nation.  Maybe a mixture is the best solution, since either system in its pure form is open to great abuses.
> Just note that what one poster here advocates does not automatically make it part of the Democratic platform.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Would you admit that the Democratic platform is veering to the left rather dramatically right now?  Would it be an exaggeration to see this as a moment that could be a turning point in US political history?  The progressive wing of the Democratic Party is demanding things that have moderate Democrats running for the hills.  So who wins that battle?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most people have sense.  There are a lot more "moderates," left and right, than there are extremists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly would have agreed with you even 5 years ago.
> There is a large under current of 20 somethings that are way the hell out there. Perhaps not to the level of the 60's, but not that far away from it.
> There is a growing, and increasingly strong leftist branch for the past 10 years that is getting more and more.
Click to expand...


Yeah, but they aren't equipped to think for themselves like kids in the 60s were.


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## OldLady

Tehon said:


> OldLady said:
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> iamwhatiseem said:
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> OldLady said:
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> OldLady said:
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> 
> Don't you get the vapors, too, Tehon.  You are too sensible for that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What exactly is "the vapers"... thinking outside of right vs. left?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's an old fashioned term for a woman fainting away from some upset.  Women carried smelling salts (they were concentrated ammonia--believe it or not my mother actually had a bottle she carried in her purse and I got them stuck under my nose a time or two).  I suppose that's where the term "vapors" came from.
> 
> View attachment 253481
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well that I knew, I mean why did you attribute it to Tehon?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh.  Sorry.  Tehon said he thinks the extremists will eat (destroy) the moderates in our country.  To me that sounded quite alarmist.  He is not usually alarmist.  The extremists will not prevail.  Just like on this board, they just make a whole lot of noise, which makes them seem like more than they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not being alarmist. I was playing off your rhetoric.
Click to expand...

Well that's a relief.


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## Tehon

OldLady said:


> Tehon said:
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> OldLady said:
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> iamwhatiseem said:
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> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> What exactly is "the vapers"... thinking outside of right vs. left?
> 
> 
> 
> It's an old fashioned term for a woman fainting away from some upset.  Women carried smelling salts (they were concentrated ammonia--believe it or not my mother actually had a bottle she carried in her purse and I got them stuck under my nose a time or two).  I suppose that's where the term "vapors" came from.
> 
> View attachment 253481
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well that I knew, I mean why did you attribute it to Tehon?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh.  Sorry.  Tehon said he thinks the extremists will eat (destroy) the moderates in our country.  To me that sounded quite alarmist.  He is not usually alarmist.  The extremists will not prevail.  Just like on this board, they just make a whole lot of noise, which makes them seem like more than they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not being alarmist. I was playing off your rhetoric.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well that's a relief.
Click to expand...

That being said, I do believe the country will continue to polarize so long as the underlying problems go unaddressed.


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## Toro

Tehon said:


> The fundamental principle that our country was founded on was the right to self determination. Our founding document conveys that very message. You can't call yourself a liberal and ignore it.



Good thing I don't call myself a liberal.


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## Tehon

Toro said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fundamental principle that our country was founded on was the right to self determination. Our founding document conveys that very message. You can't call yourself a liberal and ignore it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good thing I don't call myself a liberal.
Click to expand...

Indeed.

You neocons are all the same.


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## Toro

Tehon said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fundamental principle that our country was founded on was the right to self determination. Our founding document conveys that very message. You can't call yourself a liberal and ignore it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good thing I don't call myself a liberal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> You neocons are all the same.
Click to expand...


I don't call myself a neocon either.


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## Tehon

Toro said:


> Tehon said:
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> 
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> Toro said:
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> 
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> Tehon said:
> 
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> 
> The fundamental principle that our country was founded on was the right to self determination. Our founding document conveys that very message. You can't call yourself a liberal and ignore it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good thing I don't call myself a liberal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> You neocons are all the same.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't call myself a neocon either.
Click to expand...

You don't have to self identify to be one. It is clear from your OP that you hold the same beliefs as one.

You believe in American exceptionalism and you think it is America's duty to intervene in Venezuela's affairs.


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## impuretrash

If there's anything I've learned from playing civilization video games is that it's usually a bad sign when troops from a powerful adversary start appearing in nearby countries


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## Tehon

impuretrash said:


> If there's anything I've learned from playing civilization video games is that it's usually a bad sign when troops from a powerful adversary start appearing in nearby countries


Russians have been living those games their entire lives.

Maybe Americans will learn to empathize.


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## impuretrash

Tehon said:


> impuretrash said:
> 
> 
> 
> If there's anything I've learned from playing civilization video games is that it's usually a bad sign when troops from a powerful adversary start appearing in nearby countries
> 
> 
> 
> Russians have been living those games their entire lives.
> 
> Maybe Americans will learn to empathize.
Click to expand...


I'm all for turning a blind eye to what goes on in south american dictatorships as long as their refugee scum don't exploit US asylum laws.


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## Tehon

impuretrash said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> impuretrash said:
> 
> 
> 
> If there's anything I've learned from playing civilization video games is that it's usually a bad sign when troops from a powerful adversary start appearing in nearby countries
> 
> 
> 
> Russians have been living those games their entire lives.
> 
> Maybe Americans will learn to empathize.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm all for turning a blind eye to what goes on in south american dictatorships as long as their refugee scum don't exploit US asylum laws.
Click to expand...

There is a lot of room to operate between turning a blind eye and orchestrating a coup.


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## impuretrash

Tehon said:


> impuretrash said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
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> impuretrash said:
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> 
> 
> If there's anything I've learned from playing civilization video games is that it's usually a bad sign when troops from a powerful adversary start appearing in nearby countries
> 
> 
> 
> Russians have been living those games their entire lives.
> 
> Maybe Americans will learn to empathize.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm all for turning a blind eye to what goes on in south american dictatorships as long as their refugee scum don't exploit US asylum laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a lot of room to operate between turning a blind eye and orchestrating a coup.
Click to expand...


We could prop them up with aid, dismantle and replace their system or totally ignore them and protect ourselves.  don't see any other real alternatives.


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## Oldstyle

iamwhatiseem said:


> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would you admit that the Democratic platform is veering to the left rather dramatically right now?  Would it be an exaggeration to see this as a moment that could be a turning point in US political history?  The progressive wing of the Democratic Party is demanding things that have moderate Democrats running for the hills.  So who wins that battle?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I have been trying to say, everyone is underestimating AOC and her fellow leftist. Making memes, laughing at the ghastly ignorant statements and claims is indeed easy to do - but they forget that millennials are also voters. And too many of them are leftist...course they really have absolutely no idea what that really is...but enough to vote for them.
Click to expand...


Well of course they're liberals, Iam.  How could they not be?  They've been bombarded with a liberally slanted message by their teachers in the public schools...through their professors at college...by the late night comedians...and by the main stream media!  It's not an easy thing to be a young conservative these days.


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## Oldstyle

OldLady said:


> Oldstyle said:
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> anynameyouwish said:
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> What YOU don't get about liberals!
> 
> We do NOT want to be like VENEZUELA!
> 
> YOU are the (%&%?$#%^&) who keep TELLING US that WE WANT TO BE LIKE VENEZUELA!
> 
> We keep telling you;  "no no!  not venezuela!  FINLAND, NORWAY, SWEDEN!"
> 
> Can we talk about Finland and Norway?
> 
> I don't mean to offend but I'd like to know what the fuk is wrong with the brain  of a person who keeps claiming "liberals want to be like venezuela" when we keep telling you we don't!
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the Venezuelan in the OP was talking about the anti-American left IN HER OWN COUNTRY.  Obviously, at least from what I've seen here, the left doesn't support that Maduro government at all.  That's probably because the left in this country isn't actually socialist/communist as we are always being blamed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure the post before yours was from a liberal that was calling for the US to become a Socialist country like Finland, Norway and Sweden, Old Lady!  I'm also pretty sure that the majority of liberals here would like to see a government run healthcare system as well as a "living wage"!  My point is that you don't want to be CALLED Socialists and yet you'd like to see a socialistic agenda passed!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not seeing Items 1 or 2 above.  We have a "mixed" system that includes socialist programs to benefit the poor but we are still a capitalist nation.  Maybe a mixture is the best solution, since either system in its pure form is open to great abuses.
> Just note that what one poster here advocates does not automatically make it part of the Democratic platform.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Would you admit that the Democratic platform is veering to the left rather dramatically right now?  Would it be an exaggeration to see this as a moment that could be a turning point in US political history?  The progressive wing of the Democratic Party is demanding things that have moderate Democrats running for the hills.  So who wins that battle?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most people have sense.  There are a lot more "moderates," left and right, than there are extremists.
Click to expand...


Who would you consider a "moderate" Democratic politician these days?  You've got established Democrats  like Joe Crowley getting ousted by complete unknowns like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez because he wasn't liberal enough.

I agree with you that most people have common sense by the way...it's why I think what's happening with the Democratic Party is going to come back to bite them in the ass.  Americans are not as liberal as Democrats and the main stream media seem to think they are!


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## Bleipriester

Toro said:


> Excellent piece by a Venezuelan liberal saying how clueless the knee-jerk anti-Americans are about Venezuela.
> 
> Opinion | What My Fellow Liberals Don’t Get About Venezuela
> 
> In the video, because of two decades of Chavez and Maduro rule, she says
> 
> 
> There is total chaos in Venezuela - hunger, lack of medicines and power black-outs
> Liberals are promoting and glorifying a brutal dictator
> Inflation is at 2,690,000%.  Venezuelan money is so worthless, people are literally making origami out of it.
> 
> Malnutrition and lack of medicine has caused life expectancy to decline by 3 to 5 years.
> 
> 3,000,000 million have fled the country causing a Syria-level refugee crisis
> 
> Things have gotten so bad that kidnappers have stopped kidnapping because people can't pay ransoms
> The Left blame American sanctions for economic collapse.  But the economy collapsed in 2016, before sanctions against Venezuelan oil companies were imposed.
> The only sanctions at that time were travel-bans and frozen bank accounts of individuals who were connected to the government and had stolen billions of dollars.
> Leftists who think the country is doing fine are on another planet
> American sanctions are to restore Venezuelan democracy.
> 
> Fifty-one countries recently recognized the opposition leader, Juan Guaido as the interim President after the Maduro government fraudulently stored the last election
> Guaido is not a conservative.  He is a social democrat.
> If there's one value liberal America appreciates, it's human rights.  So liberals have to stop their moral relativism regarding Venezuela.
> American liberals should support humanitarian aid and efforts to restore democracy in Venezuela.


The nazi collaborator calls himself a social democrat but he is allied with the radical right and the feudal thinking upper class. He´s a piece of shit and this point is representative for all your others regarding the truth quota.


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## Bleipriester

Wow, what a paradise!


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