# Pitbull love



## koshergrl




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## Claudette

Nice Pic. 

My foster dog is a Pit/GSD mix and he's one hell of a dog.


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## Bfgrn

Pit Bull FAQ - Dangerous Dogs - DogsBite.org

Q: Do pit bulls bite more than other dogs?

Depending upon the community in which you live and the ratio of pit bulls within it, yes and no. But whether a pit bull bites more or less than another dog breed is not the point. The issue is the acute damage a pit bull inflicts when it does choose to bite. The pit bull's "hold and shake" bite style causes severe bone and muscle damage, often inflicting permanent and disfiguring injury. Moreover, once a pit bull starts an attack, firearm intervention may be the only way to stop it.

When analyzing dog bite statistics, it is important to understand what constitutes a bite. A single bite -- recorded and used in dog bite statistics -- is a bite that "breaks the skin." One bite by a poodle that leaves two puncture wounds is recorded the same way as a pit bull mauling, which can constitute hundreds of puncture wounds and extensive soft tissue loss. Despite the "quagmire" of dog bite statistics, pit bulls are leading bite counts across U.S. cities and counties.


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## koshergrl

Terriers are potentially dangerous. So are shepherds and rotties.

Pits are a lot more likely to have been poorly trained/abused/neglected than a lot of other dogs, because of the types of people that tend to like to keep them. 

This boy is a good pup though. He was raised with that little girl my kids and a passel of other kids and loves his family, and children in general. I know everyone says that, but this guy is used to having kids all over him.


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## Bfgrn

koshergrl said:


> Terriers are potentially dangerous. So are shepherds and rotties.
> 
> Pits are a lot more likely to have been poorly trained/abused/neglected than a lot of other dogs, because of the types of people that tend to like to keep them.
> 
> This boy is a good pup though. He was raised with that little girl my kids and a passel of other kids and loves his family, and children in general. I know everyone says that, but this guy is used to having kids all over him.



Just please be aware. If you see any aggression, don't ignore it or dismiss it. I've had dogs all my life. I loved all the dogs I had, and I love the 2 that I have now. I had 3, until Buddy tried to kill me. He was a pitt/lab mix my son rescued when we lived in Florida. He was probably the most lovable dog I ever had. If I was laying on the couch watching TV, he would try to crawl up on my stomach and he would snuggle his head between my head and shoulder like he was trying to hug me.

One day my wife was dusting and left his leach on the floor. I went to pick it up, and put it back on the hutch. Buddy came over next to me and started growling. I calmly backed off, left it on the floor and said 'its ok Buddy. He stopped growling and seemed calmed.

When I walked away, he charged after me, leaped up towards me and latched onto my left arm, I was spurting blood from that wound. I swung him off 180 degrees later, he charged again latching onto my right arm and hand, deep wounds, then he went after my legs (I had shorts on) and he ripped open the back of my right leg, then got the front of my leg exposing my femur bone. My wife, daughter and son were home. My son tried to help me but I was still getting bit. Finally I was able to grab Buddy around the neck with my right arm and fell down on top of him holding on for dear life...literally. If he had escaped my grip, my face was 6 inches away. My son was able to grab him and I got away, spewing blood all over the house. My son was able to calm Buddy down, and a few minutes later he was acting as if nothing happened.

If no one were home that day, I wouldn't be telling this story. There is nothing a human can do to fight off a pitt bull attack...NOTHING. 

If you see any aggression, don't ignore it or dismiss it. Get rid of that dog, it is a ticking time bomb...


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## koshergrl

He's 6 years old now and my son has had him since he left his mom. He's never shown any aggression to any of us at all; he gets along well with my dogs as well including my spaz jack russell terrier. I mean, he's normal, he'll put them in their place when they get out of hand, but just in a normal way and never out of control.

i wasn't thrilled when my son got Snoop..I'm not particularly fond of terriers anyway (though  now i have one but that's a story in and of itself...I won't have another when she's gone.)...I had little kids and I recognize the risk in having an animal that is powerful and bred to kill. But he did a wonderful job with the pup, and he still does a wonderful job with him. I don't think he'll get another though....I think his next dog, down the road, will be one on the order of my saint..a dog that has a gentle and forgiving nature, with no tendency to bite and no tendency towards aggression, a dog that people on the street ask if they can hug and pet; instead of looking at out of the corners of their eyes and crossing to the other side. Snoop is well socialized and he takes him with him everywhere and he is a good ambassador but people are nervous of him. After 5 years that gets a little old.


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## strollingbones

yea once you get a pit ban...which breed will you ban next?  i have a dobie...the only trouble he has ever caused was barking at the boy next door when he was trying to get on the bus...the kid ran home crying.....thor did not chase him....i got the call from boy's mom.....

we worked it out....cause i dont want my dog shot.....

but you got to be careful....even a quick snap from a dobie can do a lot of damage....


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## martybegan

Bfgrn said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Terriers are potentially dangerous. So are shepherds and rotties.
> 
> Pits are a lot more likely to have been poorly trained/abused/neglected than a lot of other dogs, because of the types of people that tend to like to keep them.
> 
> This boy is a good pup though. He was raised with that little girl my kids and a passel of other kids and loves his family, and children in general. I know everyone says that, but this guy is used to having kids all over him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just please be aware. If you see any aggression, don't ignore it or dismiss it. I've had dogs all my life. I loved all the dogs I had, and I love the 2 that I have now. I had 3, until Buddy tried to kill me. He was a pitt/lab mix my son rescued when we lived in Florida. He was probably the most lovable dog I ever had. If I was laying on the couch watching TV, he would try to crawl up on my stomach and he would snuggle his head between my head and shoulder like he was trying to hug me.
> 
> One day my wife was dusting and left his leach on the floor. I went to pick it up, and put it back on the hutch. Buddy came over next to me and started growling. I calmly backed off, left it on the floor and said 'its ok Buddy. He stopped growling and seemed calmed.
> 
> When I walked away, he charged after me, leaped up towards me and latched onto my left arm, I was spurting blood from that wound. I swung him off 180 degrees later, he charged again latching onto my right arm and hand, deep wounds, then he went after my legs (I had shorts on) and he ripped open the back of my right leg, then got the front of my leg exposing my femur bone. My wife, daughter and son were home. My son tried to help me but I was still getting bit. Finally I was able to grab Buddy around the neck with my right arm and fell down on top of him holding on for dear life...literally. If he had escaped my grip, my face was 6 inches away. My son was able to grab him and I got away, spewing blood all over the house. My son was able to calm Buddy down, and a few minutes later he was acting as if nothing happened.
> 
> If no one were home that day, I wouldn't be telling this story. There is nothing a human can do to fight off a pitt bull attack...NOTHING.
> 
> If you see any aggression, don't ignore it or dismiss it. Get rid of that dog, it is a ticking time bomb...
Click to expand...


A hard punch to the head will stun them. A friend of mine has to do it sometimes when his two pits get into a bit of a fight that goes too far.

If the dog was a rescue, it almost seems that you triggered some fight cue it may have been trained up for. Was the dog rescued from a fighting breeder by some chance?


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## strollingbones

o hell yea that is what i want to do.....hit a pit that is fighting in the head to stun the bitch....please ******....are you really suggesting that?


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## martybegan

strollingbones said:


> o hell yea that is what i want to do.....hit a pit that is fighting in the head to stun the bitch....please ******....are you really suggesting that?



A pit fighting another dog is usually concentrated on the dog, not gunning for the person trying to break it up. The dog has never turned on my friend when he tries to break it up.

Thier heads are like a brick, all the hit does it breaks the contact between the dogs for a second, and that is usually enough to "Reset" them back to normal mode.

This is not an every day occurance, it just happens sometimes when the play fighting takes a bad turn.


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## strollingbones

okay here is what a friends wife saw at her house with her hubbys pits.....

one got lose and attack another that was chained....as she was in the process of killing a chain dog.....she got too close to another chained dog....which killed her....so now you got 2 dead dogs and one badly wounded....good wife screaming in terror.....good times good times....but they were chained and agressive dogs...milo is not that....he is just a big ass baby


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## strollingbones

snoop? i thought the pit was milo?


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## koshergrl

The jack is mylo, lol. Snoop is the boy's dog. Snoop da poop. Snoopy Poopy, Snooper Pooper.


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## Bfgrn

strollingbones said:


> yea once you get a pit ban...which breed will you ban next?  i have a dobie...the only trouble he has ever caused was barking at the boy next door when he was trying to get on the bus...the kid ran home crying.....thor did not chase him....i got the call from boy's mom.....
> 
> we worked it out....cause i dont want my dog shot.....
> 
> but you got to be careful....even a quick snap from a dobie can do a lot of damage....



It's not a slippery slope bones. The statistics are OVERWHELMING...pit bulls and Rottweilers are very dangerous dogs.

Pit Bulls, Surgeons and Statistics

From the April 2011 edition of Annals of Surgery, Volume 253, Number 4, and is entitled "Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs." 

The article notes that:

    Compared with attacks by other breeds of dogs, attacks by pit bulls were associated with a higher median Injury Severity Scale score (4 vs. 1; P = 0.002), a higher risk of an admission Glasgow Coma Scale score of 8 or lower (17.2% vs. 0%; P = 0.006), higher median hospital charges ($10,500 vs. $7200; P = 0.003), and a higher risk of death (10.3% vs. 0%; P = 0.041).

Over a recent 3-year period from January 2006 to March 30, 2009, a total of 98 dog bite fatalities involving 179 dogs occurred; 60% of the deaths were caused by pit bulls, and 76% were caused by pit bulls and Rottweilers. A total of 113 pit bulls were involved in these deaths, and they accounted for 63% of the dogs involved in fatal attacks (Table 2).

TABLE 2. Breed of Dog Associated With Involvement in Fatal
Attacks, 2007 National Registration Data From the American
Kennel Club, and Relative Risk of Fatal Attack&#8727;






Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs pdf

TABLE 3. Characteristics of Pit Bulls
*Fatal Pit Bull Attacks Nationally*

Pit bulls attack indiscriminately
Responsible for 65% of all fatal attacks in 2008
6 of 7 fatal dog bites in Texas in 2007 were inflicted by pit bulls
94% of attacks on children by pit bulls were unprovoked
81% of attacks that occurred off the owners property involved pit bulls
One person is killed by a pit bull every 14 days
One body part is severed and lost every 5.4 days as a result of pit bull attacks
2 persons are injured by pit bulls every day
1.5 pit bulls are shot to death every day


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## martybegan

Bfgrn said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> yea once you get a pit ban...which breed will you ban next?  i have a dobie...the only trouble he has ever caused was barking at the boy next door when he was trying to get on the bus...the kid ran home crying.....thor did not chase him....i got the call from boy's mom.....
> 
> we worked it out....cause i dont want my dog shot.....
> 
> but you got to be careful....even a quick snap from a dobie can do a lot of damage....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a slippery slope bones. The statistics are OVERWHELMING...pit bulls and Rottweilers are very dangerous dogs.
> 
> Pit Bulls, Surgeons and Statistics
> 
> From the April 2011 edition of Annals of Surgery, Volume 253, Number 4, and is entitled "Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs."
> 
> The article notes that:
> 
> Compared with attacks by other breeds of dogs, attacks by pit bulls were associated with a higher median Injury Severity Scale score (4 vs. 1; P = 0.002), a higher risk of an admission Glasgow Coma Scale score of 8 or lower (17.2% vs. 0%; P = 0.006), higher median hospital charges ($10,500 vs. $7200; P = 0.003), and a higher risk of death (10.3% vs. 0%; P = 0.041).
> 
> Over a recent 3-year period from January 2006 to March 30, 2009, a total of 98 dog bite fatalities involving 179 dogs occurred; 60% of the deaths were caused by pit bulls, and 76% were caused by pit bulls and Rottweilers. A total of 113 pit bulls were involved in these deaths, and they accounted for 63% of the dogs involved in fatal attacks (Table 2).
> 
> TABLE 2. Breed of Dog Associated With Involvement in Fatal
> Attacks, 2007 National Registration Data From the American
> Kennel Club, and Relative Risk of Fatal Attack&#8727;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs pdf
> 
> TABLE 3. Characteristics of Pit Bulls
> *Fatal Pit Bull Attacks Nationally*
> 
> Pit bulls attack indiscriminately
> Responsible for 65% of all fatal attacks in 2008
> 6 of 7 fatal dog bites in Texas in 2007 were inflicted by pit bulls
> 94% of attacks on children by pit bulls were unprovoked
> 81% of attacks that occurred off the owners property involved pit bulls
> One person is killed by a pit bull every 14 days
> One body part is severed and lost every 5.4 days as a result of pit bull attacks
> 2 persons are injured by pit bulls every day
> 1.5 pit bulls are shot to death every day
Click to expand...


I have a question about the table you are providing. Does it only count attacks by AKC registered dogs, or any dog? Because it lists dogs by AKC registration and the vast majority of owned dogs are not AKC certified. 

If it used AKC registration numbers, but used incident counts using all dogs, the comparison would not be valid due to using a subset for one number (AKC dogs) and the whole set (dogs) for the other.


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## Bfgrn

martybegan said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> yea once you get a pit ban...which breed will you ban next?  i have a dobie...the only trouble he has ever caused was barking at the boy next door when he was trying to get on the bus...the kid ran home crying.....thor did not chase him....i got the call from boy's mom.....
> 
> we worked it out....cause i dont want my dog shot.....
> 
> but you got to be careful....even a quick snap from a dobie can do a lot of damage....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a slippery slope bones. The statistics are OVERWHELMING...pit bulls and Rottweilers are very dangerous dogs.
> 
> Pit Bulls, Surgeons and Statistics
> 
> From the April 2011 edition of Annals of Surgery, Volume 253, Number 4, and is entitled "Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs."
> 
> The article notes that:
> 
> Compared with attacks by other breeds of dogs, attacks by pit bulls were associated with a higher median Injury Severity Scale score (4 vs. 1; P = 0.002), a higher risk of an admission Glasgow Coma Scale score of 8 or lower (17.2% vs. 0%; P = 0.006), higher median hospital charges ($10,500 vs. $7200; P = 0.003), and a higher risk of death (10.3% vs. 0%; P = 0.041).
> 
> Over a recent 3-year period from January 2006 to March 30, 2009, a total of 98 dog bite fatalities involving 179 dogs occurred; 60% of the deaths were caused by pit bulls, and 76% were caused by pit bulls and Rottweilers. A total of 113 pit bulls were involved in these deaths, and they accounted for 63% of the dogs involved in fatal attacks (Table 2).
> 
> TABLE 2. Breed of Dog Associated With Involvement in Fatal
> Attacks, 2007 National Registration Data From the American
> Kennel Club, and Relative Risk of Fatal Attack&#8727;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs pdf
> 
> TABLE 3. Characteristics of Pit Bulls
> *Fatal Pit Bull Attacks Nationally*
> 
> Pit bulls attack indiscriminately
> Responsible for 65% of all fatal attacks in 2008
> 6 of 7 fatal dog bites in Texas in 2007 were inflicted by pit bulls
> 94% of attacks on children by pit bulls were unprovoked
> 81% of attacks that occurred off the owner&#8217;s property involved pit bulls
> One person is killed by a pit bull every 14 days
> One body part is severed and lost every 5.4 days as a result of pit bull attacks
> 2 persons are injured by pit bulls every day
> 1.5 pit bulls are shot to death every day
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have a question about the table you are providing. Does it only count attacks by AKC registered dogs, or any dog? Because it lists dogs by AKC registration and the vast majority of owned dogs are not AKC certified.
> 
> If it used AKC registration numbers, but used incident counts using all dogs, the comparison would not be valid due to using a subset for one number (AKC dogs) and the whole set (dogs) for the other.
Click to expand...


You are missing the point. If everything hinged on that one table, you would have an argument. But the most important information citizens need to be aware of is that any dog can bite you, but a pit bull doesn't just bite you, a pit bull attacks you. 

The attack pattern of pit bulls is different from that of other dogs. With other dogs, children are usually at highest risk of being bitten. In contrast, pit bulls seem to attack adults almost as frequently as they attack children. Pit bulls not only are notorious for their indiscriminate attack pattern but also are well known for the tenacity with which they continue with an attack. The case fatality reported above involved an infant that was mauled by 2 pit bulls. These dogs had previously bitten an 8-year-old relative in the face. When the dog&#8217;s owner attempted to stop the attack on the infant by stabbing the dogs with a knife, she became a victim herself, and police officers had to shoot (kill) the dogs at the scene. It is not uncommon to hear of witnessed attacks in which the pit bulls could not be stopped from attacking.

The inbred tenacity of pit bulls, the unrelenting manner in which they initiate and continue their attacks, and the damage they cause are the result of both genetics and environment. Therefore, this breed of dog is inherently dangerous.

As stated by 1 author, &#8220;Temperament is not the issue, nor is it even relevant. What is relevant is actuarial risk. If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a Pit Bull Terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed, and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dog and their victims are paying the price.&#8221;

CONCLUSIONS
Dog bites are a serious public health concern in the United States and across the world. They result in substantial emotional and physical trauma and in a substantial economic cost to the victims and to society. Fortunately, fatal dog attacks are rare, but there seems to be a distinct relationship between the severity and lethality of an attack and the breed of dog responsible. The unacceptable actuarial risk associated with certain breeds of dogs (specifically, pit bulls) must be addressed. These breeds should be regulated in the same way in which other dangerous species, such as leopards, are regulated. Individual municipalities need the power to enact ordinances that can protect their citizens from this risk. If they are to obtain such power, the issue must be addressed at the local, county, and state legislative levels.


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## martybegan

Bfgrn said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a slippery slope bones. The statistics are OVERWHELMING...pit bulls and Rottweilers are very dangerous dogs.
> 
> Pit Bulls, Surgeons and Statistics
> 
> From the April 2011 edition of Annals of Surgery, Volume 253, Number 4, and is entitled "Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs."
> 
> The article notes that:
> 
> Compared with attacks by other breeds of dogs, attacks by pit bulls were associated with a higher median Injury Severity Scale score (4 vs. 1; P = 0.002), a higher risk of an admission Glasgow Coma Scale score of 8 or lower (17.2% vs. 0%; P = 0.006), higher median hospital charges ($10,500 vs. $7200; P = 0.003), and a higher risk of death (10.3% vs. 0%; P = 0.041).
> 
> Over a recent 3-year period from January 2006 to March 30, 2009, a total of 98 dog bite fatalities involving 179 dogs occurred; 60% of the deaths were caused by pit bulls, and 76% were caused by pit bulls and Rottweilers. A total of 113 pit bulls were involved in these deaths, and they accounted for 63% of the dogs involved in fatal attacks (Table 2).
> 
> TABLE 2. Breed of Dog Associated With Involvement in Fatal
> Attacks, 2007 National Registration Data From the American
> Kennel Club, and Relative Risk of Fatal Attack&#8727;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs pdf
> 
> TABLE 3. Characteristics of Pit Bulls
> *Fatal Pit Bull Attacks Nationally*
> 
> Pit bulls attack indiscriminately
> Responsible for 65% of all fatal attacks in 2008
> 6 of 7 fatal dog bites in Texas in 2007 were inflicted by pit bulls
> 94% of attacks on children by pit bulls were unprovoked
> 81% of attacks that occurred off the owners property involved pit bulls
> One person is killed by a pit bull every 14 days
> One body part is severed and lost every 5.4 days as a result of pit bull attacks
> 2 persons are injured by pit bulls every day
> 1.5 pit bulls are shot to death every day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a question about the table you are providing. Does it only count attacks by AKC registered dogs, or any dog? Because it lists dogs by AKC registration and the vast majority of owned dogs are not AKC certified.
> 
> If it used AKC registration numbers, but used incident counts using all dogs, the comparison would not be valid due to using a subset for one number (AKC dogs) and the whole set (dogs) for the other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are missing the point. If everything hinged on that one table, you would have an argument. But the most important information citizens need to be aware of is that any dog can bite you, but a pit bull doesn't just bite you, a pit bull attacks you.
> 
> The attack pattern of pit bulls is different from that of other dogs. With other dogs, children are usually at highest risk of being bitten. In contrast, pit bulls seem to attack adults almost as frequently as they attack children. Pit bulls not only are notorious for their indiscriminate attack pattern but also are well known for the tenacity with which they continue with an attack. The case fatality reported above involved an infant that was mauled by 2 pit bulls. These dogs had previously bitten an 8-year-old relative in the face. When the dogs owner attempted to stop the attack on the infant by stabbing the dogs with a knife, she became a victim herself, and police officers had to shoot (kill) the dogs at the scene. It is not uncommon to hear of witnessed attacks in which the pit bulls could not be stopped from attacking.
> 
> The inbred tenacity of pit bulls, the unrelenting manner in which they initiate and continue their attacks, and the damage they cause are the result of both genetics and environment. Therefore, this breed of dog is inherently dangerous.
> 
> As stated by 1 author, Temperament is not the issue, nor is it even relevant. What is relevant is actuarial risk. If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a Pit Bull Terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed, and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dog and their victims are paying the price.
> 
> CONCLUSIONS
> Dog bites are a serious public health concern in the United States and across the world. They result in substantial emotional and physical trauma and in a substantial economic cost to the victims and to society. Fortunately, fatal dog attacks are rare, but there seems to be a distinct relationship between the severity and lethality of an attack and the breed of dog responsible. The unacceptable actuarial risk associated with certain breeds of dogs (specifically, pit bulls) must be addressed. These breeds should be regulated in the same way in which other dangerous species, such as leopards, are regulated. Individual municipalities need the power to enact ordinances that can protect their citizens from this risk. If they are to obtain such power, the issue must be addressed at the local, county, and state legislative levels.
Click to expand...


The graph is used to backup your point. How is pointing out it may be based on unsound data missing the point?  Are we going with the "fake but accurate" concept with this, in where it helps your point, so even if it is flawed, its OK because I agree with its findings? Also, the statement is that the registration data is from 2007, is the attack total for 2007 or a longer period?

Yes, because they are bigger dogs, and thier physiology is based on the ability to fight and survive, they are a bigger risk if they prove to be violently tempered. But this whole "inherently dangerous" thing is to me without merit. A 1" puddle can be inherently dangerous if you pass out face first in it. 

And going to the lengths of saying they need to be regulated like leopards is quite frankly, absurd. 

You had a bad and terrible experience with pits, and for that I am sorry. but that was one dog, in one situation. The brush you are painting is a very broad one, and you are doing it with funky data to boot.


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## koshergrl

Bfgrn said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> yea once you get a pit ban...which breed will you ban next? i have a dobie...the only trouble he has ever caused was barking at the boy next door when he was trying to get on the bus...the kid ran home crying.....thor did not chase him....i got the call from boy's mom.....
> 
> we worked it out....cause i dont want my dog shot.....
> 
> but you got to be careful....even a quick snap from a dobie can do a lot of damage....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a slippery slope bones. The statistics are OVERWHELMING...pit bulls and Rottweilers are very dangerous dogs.
> 
> Pit Bulls, Surgeons and Statistics
> 
> From the April 2011 edition of Annals of Surgery, Volume 253, Number 4, and is entitled "Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs."
> 
> The article notes that:
> 
> Compared with attacks by other breeds of dogs, attacks by pit bulls were associated with a higher median Injury Severity Scale score (4 vs. 1; P = 0.002), a higher risk of an admission Glasgow Coma Scale score of 8 or lower (17.2% vs. 0%; P = 0.006), higher median hospital charges ($10,500 vs. $7200; P = 0.003), and a higher risk of death (10.3% vs. 0%; P = 0.041).
> 
> Over a recent 3-year period from January 2006 to March 30, 2009, a total of 98 dog bite fatalities involving 179 dogs occurred; 60% of the deaths were caused by pit bulls, and 76% were caused by pit bulls and Rottweilers. A total of 113 pit bulls were involved in these deaths, and they accounted for 63% of the dogs involved in fatal attacks (Table 2).
> 
> TABLE 2. Breed of Dog Associated With Involvement in Fatal
> Attacks, 2007 National Registration Data From the American
> Kennel Club, and Relative Risk of Fatal Attack&#8727;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs pdf
> 
> TABLE 3. Characteristics of Pit Bulls
> *Fatal Pit Bull Attacks Nationally*
> 
> Pit bulls attack indiscriminately
> Responsible for 65% of all fatal attacks in 2008
> 6 of 7 fatal dog bites in Texas in 2007 were inflicted by pit bulls
> 94% of attacks on children by pit bulls were unprovoked
> 81% of attacks that occurred off the owners property involved pit bulls
> One person is killed by a pit bull every 14 days
> One body part is severed and lost every 5.4 days as a result of pit bull attacks
> 2 persons are injured by pit bulls every day
> 1.5 pit bulls are shot to death every day
Click to expand...

 
Oh pit bulls are powerful dogs and potentially dangerous, no doubt. I don't buy the silliness that they're "just the same" as any other dog...and, incidentally, neither does CESAR MILLAN. But that doesn't mean they should be made illegal, any more than certain types of horses should be banned because they're higher strung and thus more dangerous....and it doesn't mean they can never be trusted. But dealing with dogs (or really any animal) is the same as dealing with AIDS...you have to treat every one of them as if they have the potential to kill and maim...because every one of them does have that potential. 

Even my saint is dangerous. He doesn't have a mean bone in him, but he outweighs my kids by a huge margin, and when they get on the ground and he is playing, he can really hurt them. He ran nose first into my son, hitting him right in the solar plexus...the dog was running as fast as he could and seriously, that could stop a kid's heart, or rupture his aorta. He's held my daughter down by grabbing the back of her head...2x! Now that was a year ago, he knows now that he isnt supposed to do that (and he was just playing) but it doesn't make any difference, the potential is there. 

They're animals. They're muscle, bone and teeth. And they have genetically hardwired tendencies. Terriers are HUNTERS to begin with; and pits are also bred to fight. Certain things trigger them, and if you miss the cues or you aren't aware of what triggers them, you could be in trouble.

BTW, I guess when a dog attacks, the way to get the upper hand is to grab them by their cheeks/neck folds on the side under their ears and lift front legs off the ground. Might not be the funnest thing to do when they've taken out big chunks of you, but it stops the momentum. If you can do it.

From behind, not the front.

I hope I never have to do it, ack.


----------



## Bfgrn

koshergrl said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> yea once you get a pit ban...which breed will you ban next? i have a dobie...the only trouble he has ever caused was barking at the boy next door when he was trying to get on the bus...the kid ran home crying.....thor did not chase him....i got the call from boy's mom.....
> 
> we worked it out....cause i dont want my dog shot.....
> 
> but you got to be careful....even a quick snap from a dobie can do a lot of damage....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a slippery slope bones. The statistics are OVERWHELMING...pit bulls and Rottweilers are very dangerous dogs.
> 
> Pit Bulls, Surgeons and Statistics
> 
> From the April 2011 edition of Annals of Surgery, Volume 253, Number 4, and is entitled "Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs."
> 
> The article notes that:
> 
> Compared with attacks by other breeds of dogs, attacks by pit bulls were associated with a higher median Injury Severity Scale score (4 vs. 1; P = 0.002), a higher risk of an admission Glasgow Coma Scale score of 8 or lower (17.2% vs. 0%; P = 0.006), higher median hospital charges ($10,500 vs. $7200; P = 0.003), and a higher risk of death (10.3% vs. 0%; P = 0.041).
> 
> Over a recent 3-year period from January 2006 to March 30, 2009, a total of 98 dog bite fatalities involving 179 dogs occurred; 60% of the deaths were caused by pit bulls, and 76% were caused by pit bulls and Rottweilers. A total of 113 pit bulls were involved in these deaths, and they accounted for 63% of the dogs involved in fatal attacks (Table 2).
> 
> TABLE 2. Breed of Dog Associated With Involvement in Fatal
> Attacks, 2007 National Registration Data From the American
> Kennel Club, and Relative Risk of Fatal Attack&#8727;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs pdf
> 
> TABLE 3. Characteristics of Pit Bulls
> *Fatal Pit Bull Attacks Nationally*
> 
> Pit bulls attack indiscriminately
> Responsible for 65% of all fatal attacks in 2008
> 6 of 7 fatal dog bites in Texas in 2007 were inflicted by pit bulls
> 94% of attacks on children by pit bulls were unprovoked
> 81% of attacks that occurred off the owners property involved pit bulls
> One person is killed by a pit bull every 14 days
> One body part is severed and lost every 5.4 days as a result of pit bull attacks
> 2 persons are injured by pit bulls every day
> 1.5 pit bulls are shot to death every day
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh pit bulls are powerful dogs and potentially dangerous, no doubt. I don't buy the silliness that they're "just the same" as any other dog...and, incidentally, neither does CESAR MILLAN. But that doesn't mean they should be made illegal, any more than certain types of horses should be banned because they're higher strung and thus more dangerous....and it doesn't mean they can never be trusted. But dealing with dogs (or really any animal) is the same as dealing with AIDS...you have to treat every one of them as if they have the potential to kill and maim...because every one of them does have that potential.
> 
> Even my saint is dangerous. He doesn't have a mean bone in him, but he outweighs my kids by a huge margin, and when they get on the ground and he is playing, he can really hurt them. He ran nose first into my son, hitting him right in the solar plexus...the dog was running as fast as he could and seriously, that could stop a kid's heart, or rupture his aorta. He's held my daughter down by grabbing the back of her head...2x! Now that was a year ago, he knows now that he isnt supposed to do that (and he was just playing) but it doesn't make any difference, the potential is there.
> 
> They're animals. They're muscle, bone and teeth. And they have genetically hardwired tendencies. Terriers are HUNTERS to begin with; and pits are also bred to fight. Certain things trigger them, and if you miss the cues or you aren't aware of what triggers them, you could be in trouble.
> 
> BTW, I guess when a dog attacks, the way to get the upper hand is to grab them by their cheeks/neck folds on the side under their ears and lift front legs off the ground. Might not be the funnest thing to do when they've taken out big chunks of you, but it stops the momentum. If you can do it.
> 
> From behind, not the front.
> 
> I hope I never have to do it, ack.
Click to expand...


You know, if I read this thread a year ago, I would have been defending pit bulls. And being a grown male who has always been able to defend myself, I would dismiss the danger.

I still love Buddy, even though he tried to kill me. I still love Buddy, even though we had to put him down. I still miss Buddy and all the things he did that made me laugh. When we were in Florida, there were a bunch of young kids across the street. Buddy would sit there on the sidewalk and you could tell he really believed he was one of those kids, and he wanted to just go play. I would not allow Buddy to cross the street, and he would listen to me. I didn't have to chain him up. My lasting image of Buddy is not his attack on me, it is that sweet, happy, people loving dog that disappeared into the back of the dog warden wagon, unwittingly eager to make a new friend with the person who was about to euthanize him.

As I look back, Buddy was really different than any dog I ever had. Maybe some of these differences can give you a heads up with your own pit. 

I have come to the conclusion that what manifested in Buddy's attack on me was fear, not anger. Looking back, Buddy would always attack what every other dog I ever had ran away from. He would attack the vacuum cleaner, he would attack the lawn mower and weed whacker. If you got out the garden hose, Buddy would leap through the air biting at the water. If he got himself in the direct line of the water coming out, he would almost drown himself aspirating water. My wife was sitting on the bed drying her hair with a pistol type hair dryer. Buddy put the whole end in his mouth where the hot air was blowing out. We thought these were just cute mannerism, but they should have been a warning.

I pray you never have any incidents with you pit bull. But don't take any comfort that you will know when an attack is imminent or that you will be able to stop it...that could be a fatal mistake.


----------



## koshergrl

Yeah those are all red flags.

Our pit wasn't a rescue, so we know what his background is, and we know his behavior from the time he was a pup. We have to watch him with noises that he doesn't know..I've seen him run through the house completely unhinged when a refridgerator made a funny noise. 

But he doesn't have those behaviors that you describe, which are indicative of a fearful or anxious dog. 

And here's another thing...that crawling up on you? My Jack does that. It's not a friendly behavior. It's an anxious behavior, and a dominant one. My jack likes to stand on people, and she likes to get as high up on them as she can...she'll get right up on your head if you let her. And it's sort of funny and cute...but it's definitely a dominant behavior. That's how they establish dominance with other dogs, they get up over them. She also will stake out an area, completely random...and take exception to people or dogs getting in it and attack. Sometimes, she'll launch at the kids from my bed..sometimes she'll stake out a spot next to me on the couch...sometimes she'll stake out her food bowl or the kitchen. 

She's small and she's not going to kill anyone though, and we have learned to recognize and cope with her behavior. If I saw that behavior in Snoop, he wouldn't be anywhere around me or anyone in my family, ever. It sounds like your dog thought he was the boss, and he staked out his leash at that point in time as *his*.

I've seen dogs do funny things and it's all about dominance...we had two rottie females, and we always knew when they were going to get into it because they'd take turns walking past each other. One would walk by real slow, then lay down. Then the other would get up and walk by the one laying down real slow, and lay down...somewhere around the third or fourth pass, it was on.

You have to be aware of when they're doing it with you, and put the kabosh to it, or get rid of them.

Sometimes I go ahead and wallow my goofy jack around and let her get up on me, just for a sec. But if she was a big dog, I wouldn't let her do that. If she was a big dog, I would have gotten rid of her ages ago.

It's really subtle behavior though, and you're taking a risk with it if you take it on...because they do sometimes get in under your radar.


----------



## koshergrl

Snoop is cool because he doesn't tolerate that behavior from her. He'll put her in her place. My saint actually put her in her place a day or so ago...she jumped at him completely unexpected and he knocked her down and didn't let her back up till she stopped.


----------



## Bfgrn

koshergrl said:


> Yeah those are all red flags.
> 
> Our pit wasn't a rescue, so we know what his background is, and we know his behavior from the time he was a pup. We have to watch him with noises that he doesn't know..I've seen him run through the house completely unhinged when a refridgerator made a funny noise.
> 
> But he doesn't have those behaviors that you describe, which are indicative of a fearful or anxious dog.
> 
> And here's another thing...that crawling up on you? My Jack does that. It's not a friendly behavior. It's an anxious behavior, and a dominant one. My jack likes to stand on people, and she likes to get as high up on them as she can...she'll get right up on your head if you let her. And it's sort of funny and cute...but it's definitely a dominant behavior. That's how they establish dominance with other dogs, they get up over them. She also will stake out an area, completely random...and take exception to people or dogs getting in it and attack. Sometimes, she'll launch at the kids from my bed..sometimes she'll stake out a spot next to me on the couch...sometimes she'll stake out her food bowl or the kitchen.
> 
> She's small and she's not going to kill anyone though, and we have learned to recognize and cope with her behavior. If I saw that behavior in Snoop, he wouldn't be anywhere around me or anyone in my family, ever. It sounds like your dog thought he was the boss, and he staked out his leash at that point in time as *his*.
> 
> I've seen dogs do funny things and it's all about dominance...we had two rottie females, and we always knew when they were going to get into it because they'd take turns walking past each other. One would walk by real slow, then lay down. Then the other would get up and walk by the one laying down real slow, and lay down...somewhere around the third or fourth pass, it was on.
> 
> You have to be aware of when they're doing it with you, and put the kabosh to it, or get rid of them.
> 
> Sometimes I go ahead and wallow my goofy jack around and let her get up on me, just for a sec. But if she was a big dog, I wouldn't let her do that. If she was a big dog, I would have gotten rid of her ages ago.
> 
> It's really subtle behavior though, and you're taking a risk with it if you take it on...because they do sometimes get in under your radar.



I agree about the crawling up. If you recall I said he would try. On rare occasions I would let him, but 99.9% of the time I would stop him. 

We had to get rid of Buddy, but it was too late. I am just thankful it was me whose leg is scared and maimed and not my beautiful daughter's. I pray you never have any problems with your pit.

BTW, Buddy was a few months old when my son rescued him. I felt confident he was not damaged goods, but I will never know for sure. It is a sad story with no happy ending.


----------



## koshergrl

I won't say I'll never have another terrier...but I don't think I will.

I've never been drawn to them and I don't like having to continually second guess them and head them off at the pass. Give me a poodle, a saint, or a german shepherd any day of the week.


----------



## Bfgrn

koshergrl said:


> I won't say I'll never have another terrier...but I don't think I will.
> 
> I've never been drawn to them and I don't like having to continually second guess them and head them off at the pass. Give me a poodle, a saint, or a german shepherd any day of the week.



Growing up, my parents bought me a mutt at the spca for my 5th birthday. My dad believed mutts were better dogs; less temperament problems. I had her until my senior year of high school. That was a really sad day when we had to put her down.

My wife and I got a dog when my son was one, and he and my daughter had Amber for 15 years. All 4 of us took her to the vets went it was her time. She had a cancerous growth in her mouth and was unable to eat. We all cried like babies. Amber was a real sweetheart, she tolerated the kids (especially my daughter who would make Amber play school, store, dance class, dress up etc) without ever showing a hint of aggression.

We now have a 13 year old chocolate lab Abbey and a 7 year old Alaskan Malamute male named Inuk.

Inuk is the biggest dog I have ever owned (110 lbs) and the most submissive. If the kids or I start playing with him, he will lay on his back in a complete submissive position. He is also the biggest baby. If you hardly step on his tail or paw, he acts like he was hit with a club. And he howls like a wolf.


----------



## koshergrl

I love Malamutes!

I've had all sorts of dogs...I tend to like mutts, they have fewer health issues (though God knows Mylo doesn't have anything wrong with her, she'll probably outlive me) and they don't have the genetic stuff going on that some purebreds do. 

I tend to like larger dogs. I like the way people react to them, and I like how impressive they are when they are obedient. Little dogs can do tricks all day long and get "oh isn't he cute"...but if a big dog sits on command, you get "OMG HE'S SO OBEDIENT!!!" It's hilarious.


----------



## Duped

The American Pit Bull Terrier is the only dog on earth that was bred to show no aggression towards humans! It does not make the top ten on the dog bite ( police reports ) list! Eighty percent of reported pit bull atacks are really mutts! They were called the childrens nursemaids during world war 2! As far as I am concerned, they are the best thing on the planet!
 The white man created the breed - the black man has given it a bad name.


----------



## koshergrl

My son says much the same...he says that pits are remarkable because they will fight other dogs, even when they don't want to, because they love their owners so much.


----------



## NLT

yeaaaaa great pets...the only use for a pitt bull is to kill other pitt bulls.


----------



## koshergrl

Wow, that's pretty awful..thanks for the warning.

I can show horrific injuries caused by horses, too.


----------



## koshergrl

Dogs are dangerous. People can get hurt. If you look at death by dog stats there are a lot of pits and pit mixes that have killed people.

But people continue to let them run loose, they chain them in their yards and let kids wander around, they leave babies with them...in 1988, labs killed more people than other dogs.

I think a lot has to do with how many there are, and what group is handling them. Right now, there's a whole pit bull culture of druggies and retards who think they're cool because they have big mean dogs; and the big mean dogs they like to have are pits.

Those morons are responsible for people getting killed. I don't see Snoop suddenly going psycho and killing my granddaughter. I've been around dogs a looong time and handled them a lot, and I just don't see it. And I don't like terriers, and I never wanted a pit in my life.


----------



## emptystep

Normally I won't comment on a pet topic but I have a pit story. The family got a two year old pit he had been raised by a female and always treated kindly and gently. That dog was beautiful. He was great with me and our son but he wanted to tear my wife apart. It was behavior I have not seen in any other animal. I grew up on a farm and have seen several animals behaviors. We return the dog to the previous owner within 24 hours. After that we got a puppy we were told was a lab. At first we did not question the fact. I would play tug of war with the puppy which I thought was fun with the lab. As the puppy grew a little it developed a deep throated growl and would do a head snap twist which work well to rip something apart. As the snout formed a little more it became obvious he was a pit. We had to get rid of the dog as there is no way we could raise a pit. Before knowing the dog I would say that the way a dog is raised would outweigh the breed to a point. I do not believe that with a pit anymore. I loved those two dogs. They were the most amazing animal but I would not trust them with my kid, ever.


----------



## NLT

Once pit bulls became a hip hop sensation the attacks rose.


> Attacks by pit bulls are associated with higher morbidity rates, higher hospital charges, and a higher risk of death than are attacks by other breeds of dogs. Strict regulation of pit bulls may substantially reduce the US mortality rates related to dog bites.[40]
> 
> One 5-year (2001&#8211;2005) review of dog attack victims admitted to the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia determined that pit bull terriers were implicated in more than half of bites. Of the 551 patients treated, breed was identified in 269 cases. Of these 269 patients, 137 (50.9%) were attacked by pit bulls.[41] The authors write:
> 
> ...the overwhelming number of bites involving pit bull terriers in this study and others certainly has some degree of validity when it comes to identifying bite-prone breeds. Pit bull terriers, German shepherds, and Rottweilers were the offending breeds implicated in our study and have accounted for the majority of dog bites according to other investigators.[41]
> 
> One review of the medical literature found that pit bulls and pit bull cross-breeds were involved in between 42 and 45% of dog attacks.[42] Fatalities were most often reported in children, with 70% of victims being under the age of 10.[42]



Pit bull - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## NLT

Some breeds are not meant to be family pets


----------



## NLT

koshergrl said:


> Wow, that's pretty awful..thanks for the warning.
> 
> I can show horrific injuries caused by horses, too.



Show me a photo of a horse bite that takes half of the owners face off.


----------



## Mr Natural

Shelters are full of pit bulls and pit bull mixes.

There's got to be a reason for that.


----------



## Noomi

koshergrl said:


>



I hate the bad rap that pitbulls get. I don't care what anyone says, they are adorable!


----------



## NLT

Noomi said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate the bad rap that pitbulls get. I don't care what anyone says, *they are adorable*!
Click to expand...


Until they eat a 3 yr old baby's face off.


----------



## Noomi

Bfgrn said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> yea once you get a pit ban...which breed will you ban next?  i have a dobie...the only trouble he has ever caused was barking at the boy next door when he was trying to get on the bus...the kid ran home crying.....thor did not chase him....i got the call from boy's mom.....
> 
> we worked it out....cause i dont want my dog shot.....
> 
> but you got to be careful....even a quick snap from a dobie can do a lot of damage....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a slippery slope bones. The statistics are OVERWHELMING...pit bulls and Rottweilers are very dangerous dogs.
> 
> Pit Bulls, Surgeons and Statistics
> 
> From the April 2011 edition of Annals of Surgery, Volume 253, Number 4, and is entitled "Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs."
> 
> The article notes that:
> 
> Compared with attacks by other breeds of dogs, attacks by pit bulls were associated with a higher median Injury Severity Scale score (4 vs. 1; P = 0.002), a higher risk of an admission Glasgow Coma Scale score of 8 or lower (17.2% vs. 0%; P = 0.006), higher median hospital charges ($10,500 vs. $7200; P = 0.003), and a higher risk of death (10.3% vs. 0%; P = 0.041).
> 
> Over a recent 3-year period from January 2006 to March 30, 2009, a total of 98 dog bite fatalities involving 179 dogs occurred; 60% of the deaths were caused by pit bulls, and 76% were caused by pit bulls and Rottweilers. A total of 113 pit bulls were involved in these deaths, and they accounted for 63% of the dogs involved in fatal attacks (Table 2).
> 
> TABLE 2. Breed of Dog Associated With Involvement in Fatal
> Attacks, 2007 National Registration Data From the American
> Kennel Club, and Relative Risk of Fatal Attack&#8727;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs pdf
> 
> TABLE 3. Characteristics of Pit Bulls
> *Fatal Pit Bull Attacks Nationally*
> 
> Pit bulls attack indiscriminately
> Responsible for 65% of all fatal attacks in 2008
> 6 of 7 fatal dog bites in Texas in 2007 were inflicted by pit bulls
> 94% of attacks on children by pit bulls were unprovoked
> 81% of attacks that occurred off the owners property involved pit bulls
> One person is killed by a pit bull every 14 days
> One body part is severed and lost every 5.4 days as a result of pit bull attacks
> 2 persons are injured by pit bulls every day
> 1.5 pit bulls are shot to death every day
Click to expand...


When I look at that chart, the first thing I think is: What were the people doing before they were attacked? If they were stirring the shit of the animal and it attacks them, then I don't give a crap. 
I would only take into account attacks which were completely unprovoked, and I don't believe there is such a thing as an unprovoked dog attack, anyway.

I have never been bitten by a pit bull. I have been bitten on the lip by a Blue Heeler when I was about ten, but that was my fault because I put my face too close to his.
I have been attacked by a savage little yappy dog before, but funnily enough, no matter how many times these little dogs bite, they never get put down. A pit bull could attack in self defense and the cry goes out to kill it.

Fucking ridiculous.


----------



## Noomi

NLT said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate the bad rap that pitbulls get. I don't care what anyone says, *they are adorable*!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Until they eat a 3 yr old baby's face off.
Click to expand...


Any dog has the potential to cause harm to a person.


----------



## NLT

Noomi said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> yea once you get a pit ban...which breed will you ban next?  i have a dobie...the only trouble he has ever caused was barking at the boy next door when he was trying to get on the bus...the kid ran home crying.....thor did not chase him....i got the call from boy's mom.....
> 
> we worked it out....cause i dont want my dog shot.....
> 
> but you got to be careful....even a quick snap from a dobie can do a lot of damage....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a slippery slope bones. The statistics are OVERWHELMING...pit bulls and Rottweilers are very dangerous dogs.
> 
> Pit Bulls, Surgeons and Statistics
> 
> From the April 2011 edition of Annals of Surgery, Volume 253, Number 4, and is entitled "Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs."
> 
> The article notes that:
> 
> Compared with attacks by other breeds of dogs, attacks by pit bulls were associated with a higher median Injury Severity Scale score (4 vs. 1; P = 0.002), a higher risk of an admission Glasgow Coma Scale score of 8 or lower (17.2% vs. 0%; P = 0.006), higher median hospital charges ($10,500 vs. $7200; P = 0.003), and a higher risk of death (10.3% vs. 0%; P = 0.041).
> 
> Over a recent 3-year period from January 2006 to March 30, 2009, a total of 98 dog bite fatalities involving 179 dogs occurred; 60% of the deaths were caused by pit bulls, and 76% were caused by pit bulls and Rottweilers. A total of 113 pit bulls were involved in these deaths, and they accounted for 63% of the dogs involved in fatal attacks (Table 2).
> 
> TABLE 2. Breed of Dog Associated With Involvement in Fatal
> Attacks, 2007 National Registration Data From the American
> Kennel Club, and Relative Risk of Fatal Attack&#8727;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs pdf
> 
> TABLE 3. Characteristics of Pit Bulls
> *Fatal Pit Bull Attacks Nationally*
> 
> Pit bulls attack indiscriminately
> Responsible for 65% of all fatal attacks in 2008
> 6 of 7 fatal dog bites in Texas in 2007 were inflicted by pit bulls
> 94% of attacks on children by pit bulls were unprovoked
> 81% of attacks that occurred off the owners property involved pit bulls
> One person is killed by a pit bull every 14 days
> One body part is severed and lost every 5.4 days as a result of pit bull attacks
> 2 persons are injured by pit bulls every day
> 1.5 pit bulls are shot to death every day
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When I look at that chart, the first thing I think is: *What were the people doing before they were attacked?* If they were stirring the shit of the animal and it attacks them, then I don't give a crap.
> I would only take into account attacks which were completely unprovoked, and I don't believe there is such a thing as an unprovoked dog attack, anyway.
> 
> I have never been bitten by a pit bull. I have been bitten on the lip by a Blue Heeler when I was about ten, but that was my fault because I put my face too close to his.
> I have been attacked by a savage little yappy dog before, but funnily enough, no matter how many times these little dogs bite, they never get put down. A pit bull could attack in self defense and the cry goes out to kill it.
> 
> Fucking ridiculous.
Click to expand...


----------



## Noomi

Its a legit question, douche.

If someone is throwing rocks at a pit bull and it attacks them, why the hell should the dog be put down for it?


----------



## NLT




----------



## Noomi

NLT said:


>



So you are opposed to breed specific legislation, then?


----------



## AmyNation

Noomi said:


> NLT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hate the bad rap that pitbulls get. I don't care what anyone says, *they are adorable*!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until they eat a 3 yr old baby's face off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any dog has the potential to cause harm to a person.
Click to expand...


This is true.

The difference has already been pointed out though. When a poodle bites you, you may get hurt, but you won't die or be disfigured because of it.


----------



## Noomi

AmyNation said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NLT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Until they eat a 3 yr old baby's face off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any dog has the potential to cause harm to a person.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is true.
> 
> The difference has already been pointed out though. When a poodle bites you, you may get hurt, but you won't die or be disfigured because of it.
Click to expand...


I don't think it should matter how bad your injury is. If we are going to put down pit bulls for biting people, we should be treating every dog the same.


----------



## AmyNation

Noomi said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any dog has the potential to cause harm to a person.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is true.
> 
> The difference has already been pointed out though. When a poodle bites you, you may get hurt, but you won't die or be disfigured because of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think it should matter how bad your injury is. If we are going to put down pit bulls for biting people, we should be treating every dog the same.
Click to expand...


Many communities have that policy, or have a 3 warnings and they euthanize.

However when your dog kills someone, or rips their face off, saying they should be subject to the 3 strikes rule sounds a bit silly.


----------



## koshergrl

AmyNation said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NLT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Until they eat a 3 yr old baby's face off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any dog has the potential to cause harm to a person.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is true.
> 
> The difference has already been pointed out though. When a poodle bites you, you may get hurt, but you won't die or be disfigured because of it.
Click to expand...


When a German Shepherd, rottie, dobie, or lab bites you you will.


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## AmyNation

koshergrl said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any dog has the potential to cause harm to a person.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is true.
> 
> The difference has already been pointed out though. When a poodle bites you, you may get hurt, but you won't die or be disfigured because of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When a German Shepherd, rottie, dobie, or lab bites you you will.
Click to expand...


It is not one thing, that make Pit Bulls the most dangerous breed, but a series of traits that when put together more easily result in deadly attacks.


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## koshergrl

NLT said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate the bad rap that pitbulls get. I don't care what anyone says, *they are adorable*!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Until they eat a 3 yr old baby's face off.
Click to expand...


Jack Russells have killed babies as well.

And labs and lab crosses have killed who knows how many.

German Shepherds as well...

and mixes.

Children are at risk when they are left with dogs. But what is MOST dangerous, and what usually happens when people die, is that a PACK (more than one) goes to work. I was looking at wiki and soooo many of them are multiple dogs get into a fight and someone gets killed trying to separate them...or a pack attacks a single person. In one instance a kid was killed in his kitchen by 5 dogs. In many instances, nobody even knows the breeds of the dogs. 

Pits are dangerous. Lots of dogs are dangerous. Loose dogs on the streets are dangerous, and in the country, running up and down waterways. The worst dogs i saw didn't have a pit in the group. It was a GSD, a rottie and some other big dog and a shepherd mix.


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## Dot Com

my friend has one and he lets it bite a sofa pillow and he swings it through the air. The dog holds its own weight, under g-forces mind you, while being swung @ in the air 5 feet above the ground. Long story short, they bite you and they aint letting go. You better be very careful when around them & don't leave children unattended. I wouldn't own one.


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## Noomi

AmyNation said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is true.
> 
> The difference has already been pointed out though. When a poodle bites you, you may get hurt, but you won't die or be disfigured because of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think it should matter how bad your injury is. If we are going to put down pit bulls for biting people, we should be treating every dog the same.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many communities have that policy, or have a 3 warnings and they euthanize.
> 
> However when your dog kills someone, or rips their face off, saying they should be subject to the 3 strikes rule sounds a bit silly.
Click to expand...


What if the dog attacked someone because that person was attacking it first? Why must the dog be punished for someone else's actions?


----------



## AmyNation

Noomi said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think it should matter how bad your injury is. If we are going to put down pit bulls for biting people, we should be treating every dog the same.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many communities have that policy, or have a 3 warnings and they euthanize.
> 
> However when your dog kills someone, or rips their face off, saying they should be subject to the 3 strikes rule sounds a bit silly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What if the dog attacked someone because that person was attacking it first? Why must the dog be punished for someone else's actions?
Click to expand...


Dogs aren't being punished, they are animals.

If a dog kills someone, even if you felt they were provoked, they are still euthanized because that dog has proven to be a danger to the public.


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## koshergrl

Dot Com said:


> my friend has one and he lets it bite a sofa pillow and he swings it through the air. The dog holds its own weight, under g-forces mind you, while being swung @ in the air 5 feet above the ground. Long story short, they bite you and they aint letting go. You better be very careful when around them & don't leave children unattended. I wouldn't own one.



My jack russell does the same thing. 

I certainly don't leave children unattended with big dogs, ever.


----------



## koshergrl

Noomi said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think it should matter how bad your injury is. If we are going to put down pit bulls for biting people, we should be treating every dog the same.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many communities have that policy, or have a 3 warnings and they euthanize.
> 
> However when your dog kills someone, or rips their face off, saying they should be subject to the 3 strikes rule sounds a bit silly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What if the dog attacked someone because that person was attacking it first? Why must the dog be punished for someone else's actions?
Click to expand...


most dogs that kill aren't reacting to abuse.


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## Bfgrn

Duped said:


> The American Pit Bull Terrier is the only dog on earth that was bred to show no aggression towards humans! It does not make the top ten on the dog bite ( police reports ) list! Eighty percent of reported pit bull atacks are really mutts! They were called the childrens nursemaids during world war 2! As far as I am concerned, they are the best thing on the planet!
> The white man created the breed - the black man has given it a bad name.



Pit Bull Dangers

 The number of pit bulls put down has reached 1 million a year in shelters. This is caused by over breeding and by the pit bull advocacys efforts to try to convince innocent families that pit bulls are safe. So the families go get a pit bull puppy and go home convinced by the advocates myths, misinformation and lies that they have done a good thing.

Fortunately most find out the truth about the dogs aggression before it fully matures.  These are the lucky ones, they can take the dog to the shelter and drop it off before it has attacked, seriously injured or killed anyone. The unlucky ones are those you hear in the news reports practically every day.

They are always so shocked and in disbelief that their sweet loving family pet pit bull suddenly with out warning attacked either the owner, a family member,
friend or neighbor. They made the mistake of listening to the pit bull advocacy and believing their lies. Even though they like all the rest of us see the news reports all the time, even though they like the rest of us see how much worse pit bull attacks are than other dogs, despite all the empirical evidence and cold hard fact that pit bulls are extremely more dangerous than other dogs. Despite the fact that pit bulls kill more people than all other dogs combined, despite the fact that the relentless and vicious attacks cause so much more injury, trauma, tragedy and permanently life altering consequences. They still choose to believe the pit bull advocates and look what it has cost them now.

Watch the video T-24 Hours and see an advocate making a last minute attempt to save a pit bull that should never have been born. Stop the over breeding and stop the myths, misinformation and lies,  Stop allowing the pit bull owners and advocates spreading their myths, misinformation and lies, stop allowing them to knowingly continue to put people in harms way with their deliberately deceitful and dishonest rhetoric, propaganda and obfuscations. Stop allowing the pit bull advocacy from continuing to make the problems worse, stop allowing them to cause more and more people to get seriously injured and killed by these dogs.

*Pit Bull Facts and Statistics:*

    According to a 20-year CDC (Center for Disease Control) study, from 1979 to 1998, Pit Bulls are responsible for over one third of all fatal dog attacks.

Breeds of Dogs Involved in Fatal Human Attacks in the United States Between 1979 and 1998, by Sacks, Sinclair, Gilchrist, Golab and Lockwood, Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, 2000. Link: http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/1979-1998-breeds-dogs-involved-in-fatal-human-attacks-us.pdf

    According to a 3-year study covering 2006, 2007 and 2008, Pit Bulls are responsible for 59% of all fatal dog attacks.

Report: U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities January 2006 to December 2008, by DogsBite.org, April 20, 2009(Pit Bull Attacks and Pit Bull Laws - Advocating on Behalf of Dog Attack Victims - The Official DogsBite.org) Link: http://www.dogsbite.org/reports/dogsbite-report-us-dog-bite-fatalities-2006-2008.pdf

    Pit Bulls make up only 5% of dogs in the United Statesyet are responsible for far more deaths than ALL other breeds combined.

Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S.& Canada, September 1982 to June 25, 2010, by Merritt Clifton, Animal People, June 25, 2010. Link: http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/dog-attack-deaths-maimings-2010.pdf

    The AKC (American Kennel Club) recognizes 167 breeds of dogs yet 1 breed, Pit Bulls, kill more than all the rest combined.

What Does it Take to be an AKC Registered Breed? The American Kennel Club (American Kennel Club - akc.org) Link: AKC Facts and Stats



    To illustrate the inherent danger with this breed consider an 85-day period covering most of July, August and September of 2008;



* Pit Bulls made 127 attacks.

* Injured 158 people,

* 63% of the injuries were severe.

* 10 of the attacks resulted in 15 severed body parts.

* 6 people were killed.



This based upon media reports across theU.S.

On Pit Bull Awareness Day, DogsBite.org Releases Video of Attack Victims, DogsBite.org, October 25, 2008(Pit Bull Attacks and Pit Bull Laws - Advocating on Behalf of Dog Attack Victims - The Official DogsBite.org) Link: On Pit Bull Awareness Day, DogsBite.org Releases Video of Attack Victims - DogsBite.org

    In the same 85-day period, Law enforcement officers and citizens shot 128 dangerous Pit Bulls and 12 communities enacted Pit Bull ordinances.

    In all of 2008, there were 373 incidents where law enforcement and/or citizens were forced to shoot dangerous Pit Bulls, 40% of these resulted in or from Pit Bulls Bites or Attacks. 3% also resulted in human injury from the shooting of the dogs.

On Pit Bull Awareness Day, DogsBite.org Releases Video of Attack Victims, DogsBite.org, October 25, 2008(Pit Bull Attacks and Pit Bull Laws - Advocating on Behalf of Dog Attack Victims - The Official DogsBite.org) Link: http://blog.dogsbite.org/2008/10/dog-bite-victims-group-releases-video.htmlReport: U.S. Report: Police and Citizen Shootings of Pit Bulls 2008, by DogsBite.org, June 3, 2009 (Pit Bull Attacks and Pit Bull Laws - Advocating on Behalf of Dog Attack Victims - The Official DogsBite.org)
Link: DogsBite.org Releases Report: U.S. Police and Citizen Shootings of Pit Bulls 2008 - DogsBite.org

    Even the ASPCA support restrictions and or regulations to help reduce the Pit Bull population in New York City due to the public safety concern. This primarily is an attempt to stave off a complete ban on Pit Bulls that the city is trying to pass.

Question: Is it true that the ASPCA supports restrictions, regulations or ordinances to reduce the Pit Bull population in New York?  Answer: Yes. Phone call made on November 9, 2010. Phone number:1-212-876-7700 ext 4655

    21 of the last 28 fatalities in Texas have been children, the oldest of which was 11-years old and the youngest was 7-months old, 11 of which were age 3 or under.

Texas Fatal Pit Bull Maulings, DogsBite.org Google Map, Last updated November 16, 2010(maps.google.com) Link: Texas Fatal Pit Bull Maulings - DogsBite.org - Google Maps

    The latest fatality in theU.S.I am aware of as I write this was a 2-year old boy, Kaden, inRusk County,Texason November 10th 2010. This is the same county whereJustinClintonwas killed by two Pit Bulls just over a year ago.

Kenneth Dean, Pit Bull Kills Child In Rusk County, TylerPaper.com, November 11, 2010(TylerPaper.com | Tyler Morning Telegraph) Link: Pit Bull Kills Child In Rusk County


From 1982 to June 25th 2010 in the US & Canada Pit Bulls accounted for; 

* The majority of attacks causing bodily harm, 1654,

* The majority of attacks on children, 733,

* The majority of attacks on adults, 549,

* The majority of deaths, 173,

* The majority of people maimed, 905.


Pit Bulls only make up 5% of the dog population. Again this highlights the fact that Pit Bulls Kill far more than all other breeds combined.

Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to June 25, 2010, by Merritt Clifton, Animal People, June 25, 2010. Link: http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/dog-attack-deaths-maimings-2010.pdf

    The 1991 study of which dogs bite the most, often used to defend the Pit Bull breed, does not even include Pit Bulls in the study. The study was conducted in Denver where pit bulls are banned. The study is nearly 20-years old and determined that chained, male, unaltered dogs were the most likely to bite.

Which Dogs Bite? A Case Control Study of Risk Factors (1991), by Gershman K.A., et al. JC., Pediatrics, 1994. 93:913-7. Link: http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/1991-which-dogs-bite-denver.pdf

    Between 2006 to 2008, 88 people suffered death due to a fatal dog attack. Of these deaths, 16% involved chained dogs. Pit bull contributed to 59% (52) of these deaths. Of these 52, 13% (7) involved chained pit bulls.

Report: U.S.Dog Bite Fatalities January 2006 to December 2008, by DogsBite.org, April 20, 2009(Pit Bull Attacks and Pit Bull Laws - Advocating on Behalf of Dog Attack Victims - The Official DogsBite.org) Link: http://www.dogsbite.org/reports/dogsbite-report-us-dog-bite-fatalities-2006-2008.pdf

    Even if the pit bull category was split three ways, attacks by Pit Bulls & Pit Bull mixes would still outnumber attacks by any other breed.

Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to June 25, 2010, by Merritt Clifton, Animal People, June 25, 2010. Link: http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/dog-attack-deaths-maimings-2010.pdf

    Pit Bulls are noteworthy for attacking adults almost as frequently as children, a characteristic not shared by any other breed.

Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to June 25, 2010, by Merritt Clifton, Animal People, June 25, 2010. Link: http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/dog-attack-deaths-maimings-2010.pdf

    Texas led the nation in dog attack fatalities in 2007 with 7 deaths, 6 of which were caused by Pit Bulls.

Texas leads nation in dog attacks, Abilene Reporter News, July 12, 2008(Abilene Reporter-News: Local Abilene, Texas News Delivered Throughout the Day.)
Link: http://www.reporternews.com/news/2008/jul/12/no-headlinepound_puppies_-_texas_attacks/

    Reports gathered across theU.S.indicate that Pit Bulls bite more than any other breed, this is a fact that those apologizing for the breed consistently deny.

Pit Bulls Lead Bite Counts Across U.S. Cities and Counties, DogsBite.org, October 1, 2010(Pit Bull Attacks and Pit Bull Laws - Advocating on Behalf of Dog Attack Victims - The Official DogsBite.org) Link: Pit Bulls Lead 'Bite' Counts Across U.S. Cities and Counties - DogsBite.org

    In 1991, the United Kingdom (comprised of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland) passed the Dangerous Dog Act to ban Pit Bull Terriers and a handful of other fighting breeds.

Dangerous Dogs Act 1991, (legislation.gov.uk) Link: Dangerous Dogs Act 1991

    Many foreign countries have enacted breed-specific laws to protect citizens from dangerous dogs and to stop the importation of fighting dogs (pit bulls). Countries include, but are not limited to: Argentina, Bavaria, Bermuda, Denmark, Ecuador, France, Guyana, Israel, Italy, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Puerto Rico, Romania, Singapore, Spain, St. Kitts and Nevis, Turkey, the UAE, United Kingdom, Venezuela and parts of Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Germany, Ireland, and Japan.

    The Pit Bull problem is worldwide.

Ecuador Joins International Trend: Bans Pit Bulls and Rottweilers as Pets, Dogsbite.org, February 6, 2009(Pit Bull Attacks and Pit Bull Laws - Advocating on Behalf of Dog Attack Victims - The Official DogsBite.org) Link: Ecuador Joins International Trend: Bans Pit Bulls and Rottweilers as Pets - DogsBite.org

    There were nearly 300 Pit Bull attacks inIndianapolislast year (2009) according to Police spokesmanJeffDuhamell.

Norm Heikens, What to do when a pit bull attacks, IBJ.com, March 24, 2010(Indianapolis Business News - Latest Indiana Headlines, Top Stories, Breaking News - Indianapolis Business Journal - IBJ.com)
Link: What to do when a pit bull attacks | NewsTalk | Indianapolis Business Journal | IBJ.com

More

Pit Bull owners wake up!: Pit Bull Attacks vs. other breeds - understand the difference!


----------



## Bfgrn

koshergrl said:


> I love Malamutes!
> 
> I've had all sorts of dogs...I tend to like mutts, they have fewer health issues (though God knows Mylo doesn't have anything wrong with her, she'll probably outlive me) and they don't have the genetic stuff going on that some purebreds do.
> 
> I tend to like larger dogs. I like the way people react to them, and I like how impressive they are when they are obedient. Little dogs can do tricks all day long and get "oh isn't he cute"...but if a big dog sits on command, you get "OMG HE'S SO OBEDIENT!!!" It's hilarious.



Our Inuk is an interesting story. My wife, son and daughter drove to Michigan to get him.

He is a cousin of:

Costello: The 2006 Iams Co. Viewers Choice for Best in Show and the 2006 AKC/Eukanuba National Champ





My daughter is the one who lobbied for the puppy (now our Inuk) they ended up choosing. He was the only one not paying attention to the people there, Inuk was happily rolling around in a mud puddle.

Inuk looks identical to Costello, with one fatal flaw (only to dog breeders). Inuk's nose is not a solid color. The breeder GAVE Inuk dog away for free. They just wanted him and his flaw out of sight and off their property.

Our Inuk


----------



## Noomi

AmyNation said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> Many communities have that policy, or have a 3 warnings and they euthanize.
> 
> However when your dog kills someone, or rips their face off, saying they should be subject to the 3 strikes rule sounds a bit silly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What if the dog attacked someone because that person was attacking it first? Why must the dog be punished for someone else's actions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dogs aren't being punished, they are animals.
> 
> If a dog kills someone, even if you felt they were provoked, they are still euthanized because that dog has proven to be a danger to the public.
Click to expand...


Which is fucking ridiculous. We are saying that a dog has no right to protect itself from danger.


----------



## Noomi

koshergrl said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> Many communities have that policy, or have a 3 warnings and they euthanize.
> 
> However when your dog kills someone, or rips their face off, saying they should be subject to the 3 strikes rule sounds a bit silly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What if the dog attacked someone because that person was attacking it first? Why must the dog be punished for someone else's actions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> most dogs that kill aren't reacting to abuse.
Click to expand...


That is true, but for the ones that do, it saddens me that they are put down.


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## strollingbones

NLT said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, that's pretty awful..thanks for the warning.
> 
> I can show horrific injuries caused by horses, too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Show me a photo of a horse bite that takes half of the owners face off.
Click to expand...



leading use of articifal noses and such are from horse bites


-MILFORD  A horse bit a 2½-year-old in the face at Glendale Farm Thursday, causing what a fire official described as "a pretty big injury" because the child is so young.
Milford Fire Department Capt. Harold Streit said the child and his father were petting a horse at Glendale, 203 Herbert Road, at 10:45 a.m. when the animal bit the boy on the cheek.

CT-toddler badly bitten by horse - Chronicle Forums


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## strollingbones

AmyNation said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is true.
> 
> The difference has already been pointed out though. When a poodle bites you, you may get hurt, but you won't die or be disfigured because of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When a German Shepherd, rottie, dobie, or lab bites you you will.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is not one thing, that make Pit Bulls the most dangerous breed, but a series of traits that when put together more easily result in deadly attacks.
Click to expand...



pitts are not the most dangerous breeds there are breeds out there that make a pit look like a big baby

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3lVxNbSVOw&feature=related]SO CALLED TOP 10 MOST DANGEROUS DOGS???? - YouTube[/ame]


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## strollingbones

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOiWYQIrqyE&feature=related]Top 10 Guard Dogs In The World - YouTube[/ame]


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## strollingbones

i fully credit my first doberman....zack with saving my son's life....simple as that....

thor is a big baby till some comes up and he senses any fear from me...


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## strollingbones

what i love is the dumbasses will be terrified of thor......and its jake that is gonna nail them in a heartbeat......jake is a 75 lb golden mix...if you arent family he will put you right back in your car


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## koshergrl

Labs I think are in the top ten of dogs that have bitten/mauled/killed.

I took Klaus to the dog park the other day, and a lady came with a lab mix bitch...a young dog. Klaus as usual was very excited; they were both on leash, I wanted to let them both run but her dog flipped and started snapping and lunging. Now klaus was barking and jumping too...I made him sit down though and wait for permission to do anything.  I think it would have been okay; she wasn't big enough to hurt Klaus and Klaus does really well with psycho females since he has one at home, but the owner dragged her away. I was on the way out..I would have stayed but I thought it looked like the owner was nervous so I went ahead and left. 

The owner should have taken her dog, made her sit, and kept her there until both dogs  calmed down. Then we could go to the next step...People think avoidance is a good policy with difficult dogs. It's not. You have to work through whatever it is. I have a hard time getting people to do that when I have klaus because he's intimidating, and because he is, he triggers dogs...they become fearful. Then the people become fearful, and I can't manage my big goober and their dog and them too....it's frustrating.


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## Duped

NLT said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate the bad rap that pitbulls get. I don't care what anyone says, *they are adorable*!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Until they eat a 3 yr old baby's face off.
Click to expand...

You are a typical ignorant moron. All dogs behaviors are a direct result of humans. A shotgun will blow your head off, but it takes someone to pull the trigger. You have never had an American Pit Bull Terrior - if you had one, and loved it - you would be hooked for life. I am glad that my dog is capable of ripping someones face off - there may be a time when that is necessary to defend me. I hate you fucking haters - I bet your a dumb ass liberal!


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## koshergrl

Somewhere there's a vid of a horse kicking some guy's arm off...

Or one rearing up and falling over backwards on a kid and killing the kid.

Certain breeds have a tendency to rear up and over (thoroughbreds and certain QH lines)...shall we outlaw them?


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## koshergrl

In the meantime...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuPCdOMdq_Y]Horse Kicks Guy in Face FAIL | RFV - YouTube[/ame]

What a goober!


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## koshergrl

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxSx2PpHcD4]Horse kicks camera man - YouTube[/ame]


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## koshergrl

Stallion Kicks Girl On Head - YouTube


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## koshergrl

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J95LsygVMaQ&feature=related]ANIMAL ATTACK - Horse Attacks Guy in Retaliation (MOST DARING) - YouTube[/ame]


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## Intense

Leyla.
A.K.A. Princess Puddles...."PP", French translation.... "Wee-Wee".


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## Unkotare

There is no legitimate reason for having a dog for which another breed is not a better choice than a pitbull. 

It is tragic how many pitbulls are put down every year (to say nothing of other pets and children killed by them) because some asshole just _had to have_ a pitbull.


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## koshergrl

If it wasn't pit bulls, it would be something else.

Make pits illegal, they'll get into the Tibetan Mastiffs. Or Rotties. There's always going to be a powerful breed that retards like, and when that happens, you're going to see a lot of attacks by that breed. You can't make them all illegal.


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## AmyNation

Pit bulls shouldn't be illegal, just like buying a gun shouldn't be illegal. 

However there needs to be a lot more awareness on pits, they aren't mindless killers, but pretending that they have a bad reputation based solely on abusive owners is just as silly. And if communities want to be pit bull free, that's their choice.


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## koshergrl

You shouldn't have powerful dogs if you don't respect them, and if you aren't ready to deal with their little foibles. 

I knew a girl who had a fondness for big dogs; and she was an idiot. She loved on them like they were chihuahuas and couldn't control them. One was a rottie that she would let out in the mornings to let run..the other was one of those big curly black dogs, I can't remember, but another tough, dominant, kind of aggressive dog..oh yeah, a bouvier.

The rott got a bullet during one of his early morning forays. The bouvier bit a jogger, then someone else, and had to be put down.

She ended up with a yorkie...which is what she should have restricted herself to from the beginning.


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## Duped

Unkotare said:


> There is no legitimate reason for having a dog for which another breed is not a better choice than a pitbull.
> 
> It is tragic how many pitbulls are put down every year (to say nothing of other pets and children killed by them) because some asshole just _had to have_ a pitbull.


Fuck you - there is no better choice than the American Pit Bull Terrior. It's the blacks who fucked over the breed like they fuck over every thing they touch - asshole! Simple - don't let Gorrillas own dogs!


----------



## ScienceRocks

Duped said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no legitimate reason for having a dog for which another breed is not a better choice than a pitbull.
> 
> It is tragic how many pitbulls are put down every year (to say nothing of other pets and children killed by them) because some asshole just _had to have_ a pitbull.
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck you - there is no better choice than the American Pit Bull Terrior. It's the blacks who fucked over the breed like they fuck over every thing they touch - asshole! Simple - don't let Gorrillas own dogs!
Click to expand...


Yep,

You get out of the dog what you make it.


----------



## Unkotare

Duped said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no legitimate reason for having a dog for which another breed is not a better choice than a pitbull.
> 
> It is tragic how many pitbulls are put down every year (to say nothing of other pets and children killed by them) because some asshole just _had to have_ a pitbull.
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck you - there is no better choice than the American Pit Bull Terrior. It's the blacks who fucked over the breed like they fuck over every thing they touch - asshole! Simple - don't let Gorrillas own dogs!
Click to expand...



There is *no* legitimate reason for having a dog for which _another breed _is not a better choice than a pitbull. 

The fact that you are a fucking racist shitstain does nothing to change that.


----------



## Unkotare

Matthew said:


> [
> 
> You get out of the dog what you make it.






Or in your case, the dog gets out of _you_ when it is done.


----------



## koshergrl

Unkotare said:


> Duped said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no legitimate reason for having a dog for which another breed is not a better choice than a pitbull.
> 
> It is tragic how many pitbulls are put down every year (to say nothing of other pets and children killed by them) because some asshole just _had to have_ a pitbull.
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck you - there is no better choice than the American Pit Bull Terrior. It's the blacks who fucked over the breed like they fuck over every thing they touch - asshole! Simple - don't let Gorrillas own dogs!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There is *no* legitimate reason for having a dog for which _another breed _is not a better choice than a pitbull.
> 
> The fact that you are a fucking racist shitstain does nothing to change that.
Click to expand...


i don't understand what you mean in that first sentence.

I get the second one.


----------



## Bfgrn

koshergrl said:


> *Labs I think are in the top ten of dogs that have bitten/mauled/killed.
> *
> I took Klaus to the dog park the other day, and a lady came with a lab mix bitch...a young dog. Klaus as usual was very excited; they were both on leash, I wanted to let them both run but her dog flipped and started snapping and lunging. Now klaus was barking and jumping too...I made him sit down though and wait for permission to do anything.  I think it would have been okay; she wasn't big enough to hurt Klaus and Klaus does really well with psycho females since he has one at home, but the owner dragged her away. I was on the way out..I would have stayed but I thought it looked like the owner was nervous so I went ahead and left.
> 
> The owner should have taken her dog, made her sit, and kept her there until both dogs  calmed down. Then we could go to the next step...People think avoidance is a good policy with difficult dogs. It's not. You have to work through whatever it is. I have a hard time getting people to do that when I have klaus because he's intimidating, and because he is, he triggers dogs...they become fearful. Then the people become fearful, and I can't manage my big goober and their dog and them too....it's frustrating.



No, labs are one of the least likely. They are probably the biggest population of any medium to large breed, with a very low relative risk of fatal attack.


----------



## koshergrl

I don't believe that. Everything I've read has them close to the top.

The point is...dogs are dangerous. When you have a bunch of douches breeding and abusing a particular breed like crazy, that breed is going to be the *most likely* to attack. Millions of idiots are treating them like shit, and people who have no business having dogs at all, let alone POWERFUL dogs, are getting them and letting them run willy nilly and not supervising them properly, and being stupid about how they treat them, and putting people at risk.

Pits are potentially really dangerous. If you aren't up for it, you shouldn't have one. BUT the breed itself is not the problem...it's the people who are fixated on it.

Dobermans were the evil breed a few decades ago. And at some point rotties were. it's a fad. it will pass.


----------



## Bfgrn

8mo. old boy mauled by family dog

The grieving mother of an eight-month-old boy mauled to death by a family dog has released a photo of the infant sitting beside the animal just before what she called became a tragic accident.

Sitting up, smiling, with a hand extended toward the sleeping dogs face, a photo of baby, Tyzhel McWilliams paints a far different picture of the family dog named Zulu, at least through the babys mothers eyes.

Never in my life I thought that would happen, Tyzhels mother of San Diego, California who wished to be unnamed told UT San Diego.

Protective, friendly, the words she used to describe the brown and white pit pull euthanized Tuesday after one fatal bite to the childs head ended his life last Thursday while he crawled across the floor.

It just happened so quickly, she said of the incident that took place just before 5pm while the single mom talked in a separate room with her roommate  the owner of not only Zulu, but two other male pit bulls in the home.

They loved him from the beginning, the mother defended of the dogs relationship with her baby.

Responding to calls from the mothers home in Lemon Grove last week, police arrived at the property to find the mother clutching her injured child. He was taken to Rady Childrens Hospital where he died a short while after.

All of the dogs were immediately removed from the home. With the other two confirmed as not being involved in the childs death, nor having a known history of violence, they were later returned to their owner.

No arrests have since been made but police said they have questioned four people in connection with the incident.

Neighbors reacted with shock to news of the tragedy, adding that the dogs were not known to have been violent in the past.

8mo. old boy mauled by family dog | Str8Talkr | Just Str8 Talk, No Chaser

2012 dog bite fatalities


----------



## koshergrl

Whatever. That woman had three grown pits in a household with a baby crawling on the floor. I wouldn't let my kids crawl on the floor with a pack of dogs. I don't let my 9 and 10 year olds roll around on the ground with my dogs.

As i said, you have a whole culture of people who are fucking morons completely committed to having these powerful dogs, and they have no idea what the fuck they're doing. They'd have the same shit happening if they were using german shepherds, or jack russell terriers. They're morons, and they get people killed.


----------



## koshergrl

Jack attacks baby:
Jack Russell terrier killed after infant attack | WTVR.com

"There are no Pit-bulls to blame, the first case, the dog was a Golden  Retriever cross, the second case, a Mastiff Rhodesian cross and the  third dog a Jack Russell terrier.  All three cases occurred in less than  two-weeks!"

Three Babies, Less Than Two Weeks, Mauled by Family Dogs! Update Now 4 May 9, 2012 « Responsible Dog ~ It's all about dogs

"&#8220;Aiden McGrew&#8217;s mother called 911 when she got home around 11 a.m. and  discovered the boy&#8217;s leg was severed by a retriever mix the family had  taken into the home a few weeks earlier, Dorchester County deputies  said.&#8221;


----------



## Bfgrn

DogsBite.org Releases 3-Year Fatality Study: U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities January 2006 to December 2008

_The report shows that 19 dog breeds contributed to 88 fatalities. Pit bulls accounted for 59% of these deaths, the second leading breed, rottweilers, accounted for 14%._

The report documents dog breed information, property information (where the attack occurred) as well as dog bite victim age information.

Of the 88 fatal dog attacks recorded by DogsBite.org, pit bull type dogs were responsible for 59% (52). This is equivalent to a pit bull killing a U.S. citizen every 21 days during this 3-year period. The data also shows that pit bulls commit the vast majority of off-property attacks that result in death. Only 18% (16) of the attacks occurred off owner property, yet pit bulls were responsible for 81% (13).

Pit bulls are also more likely to kill an adult than a child. In the 3-year period, pit bulls killed more adults (ages 21 and over), 54%, than they did children (ages 11 and younger), 46%. In the 21-54 age group, pit bulls were responsible for 82% (14) of the deaths. The data indicates that pit bulls do not only kill children and senior citizens; they kill men and women in their prime years as well.

The report also shows that of the six victim age groups documented, the 55 and older group suffered the most fatalities 26% (23), followed by the 2-4 age group 22% (19). Between the ages of 0-4, the study reveals that 14% (12) of the fatal attacks involved a "watcher," a person such as a grandparent or babysitter watching the child. Of these attacks, 75% (9) involved a grandparent type.

The founder of DogsBite.org, Colleen Lynn, adds, "The off-property statistical data about pit bulls shows just how dangerous they are." She noted that six senior citizens were killed under these circumstances: "Two were killed while standing in their own backyard," she said. "Four others were killed while taking a morning walk or getting the mail."


----------



## Unkotare

koshergrl said:


> I don't believe that. Everything I've read has them close to the top.





Link?


----------



## earlycuyler

Bfgrn said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Terriers are potentially dangerous. So are shepherds and rotties.
> 
> Pits are a lot more likely to have been poorly trained/abused/neglected than a lot of other dogs, because of the types of people that tend to like to keep them.
> 
> This boy is a good pup though. He was raised with that little girl my kids and a passel of other kids and loves his family, and children in general. I know everyone says that, but this guy is used to having kids all over him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just please be aware. If you see any aggression, don't ignore it or dismiss it. I've had dogs all my life. I loved all the dogs I had, and I love the 2 that I have now. I had 3, until Buddy tried to kill me. He was a pitt/lab mix my son rescued when we lived in Florida. He was probably the most lovable dog I ever had. If I was laying on the couch watching TV, he would try to crawl up on my stomach and he would snuggle his head between my head and shoulder like he was trying to hug me.
> 
> One day my wife was dusting and left his leach on the floor. I went to pick it up, and put it back on the hutch. Buddy came over next to me and started growling. I calmly backed off, left it on the floor and said 'its ok Buddy. He stopped growling and seemed calmed.
> 
> When I walked away, he charged after me, leaped up towards me and latched onto my left arm, I was spurting blood from that wound. I swung him off 180 degrees later, he charged again latching onto my right arm and hand, deep wounds, then he went after my legs (I had shorts on) and he ripped open the back of my right leg, then got the front of my leg exposing my femur bone. My wife, daughter and son were home. My son tried to help me but I was still getting bit. Finally I was able to grab Buddy around the neck with my right arm and fell down on top of him holding on for dear life...literally. If he had escaped my grip, my face was 6 inches away. My son was able to grab him and I got away, spewing blood all over the house. My son was able to calm Buddy down, and a few minutes later he was acting as if nothing happened.
> 
> If no one were home that day, I wouldn't be telling this story. There is nothing a human can do to fight off a pitt bull attack...NOTHING.
> 
> If you see any aggression, don't ignore it or dismiss it. Get rid of that dog, it is a ticking time bomb...
Click to expand...


Buddy's behavior is not exclusive to Pit Bulls, and its not uncommon among the other dog breeds. I will agree with the4 article that a pit bulls bite will be a nasty bite, but any one who claims they bite more are not telling the truth, and are pushing an agenda. Aggression is misinterpreted all the time. In most cases, the owner who own the "aggressive" dog have no business with ANY dog in the first place. You have to assert your self with Pit Bulls.


----------



## earlycuyler

koshergrl said:


>



Do you have a straight on shot of your dogs head ?


----------



## koshergrl

I take it back...what I saw was on wiki..in 1988 labrador retrievers constituted 100 percent of fatalities..but there was only 1 recorded fatality that year...

List of fatal dog attacks in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you look at the stats, labs show quite a bit...along with rotties and dobermans and the other big breeds. 

A lot of the attacks are by packs of dogs and they aren't even sure how many or what breed.

Dogs are potentially dangerous. I know I wouldn't want to walk in some neighborhoods with my kids..not because of the people but because of the fucking dogs that nobody controls. A pack of dogs is a nasty and dangerous entity...and once a dog enters a pack, that's who they are. Whatever the leader is doing, that's what they do. 

My kids don't walk my dogs and they are told to leave the dogs alone when we have dogs visiting...my sons have a couple of dogs between them, and when they come, we are pretty much one adult per dog, and the kids do NOT get to play with them except in a very controlled way. We never leave the dogs in a room with kids...EVER. EVER. EVER. 

That's not to say that at night the dogs don't go where they want (the bedrooms they want)...they do. When we're home alone, with just our dogs...we don't sleep with our bedroom doors closed, we're all open and within a few feet of each other. the Jack usually sleeps on my bed, and klaus will move between the rooms..i think he spends a little time in each room of the house at night. But when we have visiting dog(s) in the house, the visitor goes into his master's bedroom or the garage at night, and the door is closed, and my dogs come into my room, and the door is closed.

And there are other precautions you take, you know...but the point is, you can never let up your vigilance, and you can never fail to address problems as they come up.


----------



## koshergrl

earlycuyler said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Terriers are potentially dangerous. So are shepherds and rotties.
> 
> Pits are a lot more likely to have been poorly trained/abused/neglected than a lot of other dogs, because of the types of people that tend to like to keep them.
> 
> This boy is a good pup though. He was raised with that little girl my kids and a passel of other kids and loves his family, and children in general. I know everyone says that, but this guy is used to having kids all over him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just please be aware. If you see any aggression, don't ignore it or dismiss it. I've had dogs all my life. I loved all the dogs I had, and I love the 2 that I have now. I had 3, until Buddy tried to kill me. He was a pitt/lab mix my son rescued when we lived in Florida. He was probably the most lovable dog I ever had. If I was laying on the couch watching TV, he would try to crawl up on my stomach and he would snuggle his head between my head and shoulder like he was trying to hug me.
> 
> One day my wife was dusting and left his leach on the floor. I went to pick it up, and put it back on the hutch. Buddy came over next to me and started growling. I calmly backed off, left it on the floor and said 'its ok Buddy. He stopped growling and seemed calmed.
> 
> When I walked away, he charged after me, leaped up towards me and latched onto my left arm, I was spurting blood from that wound. I swung him off 180 degrees later, he charged again latching onto my right arm and hand, deep wounds, then he went after my legs (I had shorts on) and he ripped open the back of my right leg, then got the front of my leg exposing my femur bone. My wife, daughter and son were home. My son tried to help me but I was still getting bit. Finally I was able to grab Buddy around the neck with my right arm and fell down on top of him holding on for dear life...literally. If he had escaped my grip, my face was 6 inches away. My son was able to grab him and I got away, spewing blood all over the house. My son was able to calm Buddy down, and a few minutes later he was acting as if nothing happened.
> 
> If no one were home that day, I wouldn't be telling this story. There is nothing a human can do to fight off a pitt bull attack...NOTHING.
> 
> If you see any aggression, don't ignore it or dismiss it. Get rid of that dog, it is a ticking time bomb...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Buddy's behavior is not exclusive to Pit Bulls, and its not uncommon among the other dog breeds. I will agree with the4 article that a pit bulls bite will be a nasty bite, but any one who claims they bite more are not telling the truth, and are pushing an agenda. Aggression is misinterpreted all the time. In most cases, the owner who own the "aggressive" dog have no business with ANY dog in the first place. You have to assert your self with Pit Bulls.
Click to expand...


yes you do. And you have to be aware of what they're doing, where they're at..ALL THE TIME. Because THEY'RE TERRIERS.

It's exhausting. It's why I always said I'd never have a terrier. Now look at me. Sheesh. I'm hostage to a jack russell terrorist. She hates the rain and won't pee outside when it's raining...she'll fake it then as soon as she comes in sneaks somewhere and pisses...i can smell it but damned if i can find it and it makes me freaking CRAZY. Seriously, i would like to kill her.


----------



## koshergrl

Lab, family pet for 7 years, attacks boy:

Boy attacked by Labrador Retriever | 9news.com


----------



## earlycuyler

This is my dog here. He decided he was going to try and eat a dead duck. We got lucky with him. he is a total puss cake. But he does play a bit rough at times. We just have to focus him on another activity when he is like that. And when he has had enough of company or kids, he runs into his crate.


----------



## Noomi

earlycuyler said:


> This is my dog here. He decided he was going to try and eat a dead duck. We got lucky with him. he is a total puss cake. But he does play a bit rough at times. We just have to focus him on another activity when he is like that. And when he has had enough of company or kids, he runs into his crate.



He is gorgeous.


----------



## koshergrl

Cute! 

My dogs are taught the correct behavior..but people have to behave the right way around them as well. For example, I was reading about a woman who was at some family gathering, with her 3 y.o. on her hip, and she approached a couple of dogs and bent down to pet a puppy and a grown dog grabbed her kid's face and ripped it seriously. 


Would YOU bend over even a puppy if it was a strange puppy and there were other strange dogs running around loose, if YOU had a kid on your hip? Essentially dipping his face right down there?

I sure as shit wouldn't. I wouldn't drag my kid up behind a strange horse and slap it on the ass, either. 

Then again..why had people let their dogs loose? I took my dog to the family reunion a year ago last August...he wasn't even a year old but I didn't take him off his leash the whole time. There were a couple of other dogs (a lab and golden...both kinda mean, btw..the retriever does bite but not viciously) there...we didn't turn our dogs loose to run wild amongst the children. That would be STUPID. And neither I nor my kids walked up to dogs and bent over them. So we didn't get bit.

So many people just don't have any sense with animals.


----------



## koshergrl

And you do have to assert yourself...but asserting yourself isn't about getting tough and mean and stupid. It means expecting or wanting a certain behavior, and waiting until you get it. However long that takes.

None of this applies to Jacks btw. They're batshit crazy...at least mine is. I don't take her anywhere and she gets the good spot on the bed. 

I have to assert myself with klaus once or twice a day...and it's not his fault, he isn't an aggressive or naughty dog....but the kids lead him astray and I have to talk him down and show him what's what. Today my girl came home from school and immediately started racing through the house hooting and hollering and getting Klaus going...she thinks it's cute and funny..and it is...but it's also DANGEROUS. She weighs 70, he weighs 110. When I'm here, I can make him stop...but if he doesn't want to stop for her, she can't make him. So she got put in her room and I put him outside, just for a breather and to shake off the silliness...then when he came in he picked up some plastic something and started racing through the house with it...and that's where it had to stop. I made him give it to me (and he doesn't let go easily, he likes to run with stuff and play tug of war...also bad habits taught to him by children) but he has to give me when I ask for it. Well, sometime after I ask for it, and when he releases. But I just wait. And the wait time is getting shorter with time...but that's what it's all about. Taking a behavior and addressing it, and giving it the time to work. We had to deal with rushing the door some months ago...a potentially very dangerous behavior on so many levels...and then it was pulling on the leash...you know, it's always something.


----------



## koshergrl




----------



## koshergrl




----------



## earlycuyler

Here is his other side. he is laying with my retired dog Chopper. The tan dog in that picture has attacked people twice. He is waiting for his third strike. But he is a good dog to.


----------



## koshergrl




----------



## koshergrl

earlycuyler said:


> Here is his other side. he is laying with my retired dog Chopper. The tan dog in that picture has attacked people twice. He is waiting for his third strike. But he is a good dog to.



Aw, he looks a little anxious. i love that they haven't eaten your couch. I'm afraid to get leather.


----------



## koshergrl




----------



## koshergrl




----------



## koshergrl




----------



## koshergrl




----------



## koshergrl




----------



## koshergrl

My cousin's rat terrorist establishing dominance:


----------



## Unkotare

You don't have any source other than wiki?


----------



## syrenn

koshergrl said:


> earlycuyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is his other side. he is laying with my retired dog Chopper. The tan dog in that picture has attacked people twice. He is waiting for his third strike. But he is a good dog to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aw, he looks a little anxious. i love that they haven't eaten your couch. I'm afraid to get leather.
Click to expand...



so which one was it that did the deed with the poo?


----------



## koshergrl

Klaus...my saint.


----------



## koshergrl

Unkotare said:


> You don't have any source other than wiki?



That's the one I was thinking of...though I swear I read something that said lab/lab crosses were among the top ten..but maybe not.


----------



## syrenn

lol...which one is klaus?


----------



## Bfgrn

koshergrl said:


> Lab, family pet for 7 years, attacks boy:
> 
> Boy attacked by Labrador Retriever | 9news.com



Any dog can be a danger to humans. It is important to never completely trust any dog or pet.

But, here is the big difference in regard to pit bulls vs. other breeds.

Again, from the April 2011 edition of Annals of Surgery, Volume 253, Number 4, and is entitled "Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs." 


"Pit bulls not only are notorious for their indiscriminate attack pattern but also as well known for the tenacity with which they continue to attack.


"The inbred tenacity of pit bulls, the unrelenting manner in which they initiate and continue their attacks, and the damage they cause are the result of both genetics and environment. Therefore, this breed of dog is inherently dangerous."


"As stated by one author, 'Temperament is not the issue, nor is it even relevant. What is relevant is actuarial risk. If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable.* If a Pit Bull Terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed*, and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs and their victims are paying the price.'"


"If the risk of a fatal attack is normalized to Labrador Retrievers and Labrador-mix breeds (the most common registered dog in the United States), the relative risk of death related to pit bull attacks is more than 2500 times higher."


----------



## koshergrl

syrenn said:


> lol...which one is klaus?



The big brown and white saint bernard..not the one sitting up in the chair in my pics, that was a friend's. Mine is the beautiful one who looks super intelligent.


----------



## koshergrl

Bfgrn said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lab, family pet for 7 years, attacks boy:
> 
> Boy attacked by Labrador Retriever | 9news.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any dog can be a danger to humans. It is important to never completely trust any dog or pet.
> 
> But, here is the big difference in regard to pit bulls vs. other breeds.
> 
> Again, from the April 2011 edition of Annals of Surgery, Volume 253, Number 4, and is entitled "Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs."
> 
> 
> "Pit bulls not only are notorious for their indiscriminate attack pattern but also as well known for the tenacity with which they continue to attack.
> 
> 
> "The inbred tenacity of pit bulls, the unrelenting manner in which they initiate and continue their attacks, and the damage they cause are the result of both genetics and environment. Therefore, this breed of dog is inherently dangerous."
> 
> 
> "As stated by one author, 'Temperament is not the issue, nor is it even relevant. What is relevant is actuarial risk. If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable.* If a Pit Bull Terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed*, and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs and their victims are paying the price.'"
> 
> 
> "If the risk of a fatal attack is normalized to Labrador Retrievers and Labrador-mix breeds (the most common registered dog in the United States), the relative risk of death related to pit bull attacks is more than 2500 times higher."
Click to expand...


True enough I suppose.

I still don't believe they should be outlawed. Unless you're going to outlaw Rotts and the presarios as well and all the other dangerous dogs..because as soon as pits are made illegal, some other power breed will just move in to fill the vacuum.


----------



## catzmeow

Bfgrn said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lab, family pet for 7 years, attacks boy:
> 
> Boy attacked by Labrador Retriever | 9news.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any dog can be a danger to humans. It is important to never completely trust any dog or pet.
> 
> But, here is the big difference in regard to pit bulls vs. other breeds.
> 
> Again, from the April 2011 edition of Annals of Surgery, Volume 253, Number 4, and is entitled "Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs."
> 
> 
> "Pit bulls not only are notorious for their indiscriminate attack pattern but also as well known for the tenacity with which they continue to attack.
> 
> 
> "The inbred tenacity of pit bulls, the unrelenting manner in which they initiate and continue their attacks, and the damage they cause are the result of both genetics and environment. Therefore, this breed of dog is inherently dangerous."
> 
> 
> "As stated by one author, 'Temperament is not the issue, nor is it even relevant. What is relevant is actuarial risk. If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable.* If a Pit Bull Terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed*, and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs and their victims are paying the price.'"
> 
> 
> "If the risk of a fatal attack is normalized to Labrador Retrievers and Labrador-mix breeds (the most common registered dog in the United States), the relative risk of death related to pit bull attacks is more than 2500 times higher."
Click to expand...


Issues with the study you've posted are outlined here:  http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/uploaded_files/tinymce/Bini-Commentary-FINAL.pdf

study contains lots of misinformation and inaccurate stats.  Further, most ER practitioners aren't able to knowledgeably identify dog breeds.  They are relying upon second-hand reports from victims and witnesses, most of whom aren't experts.



> If a significant percentage of our dogs are dogs of undocumented origin, what are we to make of
> all the dog bite statistics we have been collecting that purport to correlate a bite incident with a breed
> of a dog?6 We would be very surprised if documented ancestries are available for any of the dogs
> involved in the 82 incidents described by Dr. Bini and his collaborators as containing reliable breed
> attributions of the dogs involved.
> 
> Thus, while the authors may be able to quantify the severity of injuries suffered by the victims, an
> understanding of the nature of the American dog population, combined with a reading of the most
> recent research on visual breed identification shows that they cannot reliably correlate each incident
> with a breed of dog, whether or not a breed attribution of the dog was available.
> ...
> The authors glamorize their paper with a claim that one of every five child visits to an emergency room
> is in consequence of a dog bite. *Had they queried the publicly available database of the Centers for
> Disease Control and Prevention, they would have learned that dog bite victims aged 0 - 14 constitute
> less than 2% -- that is, less than one in fifty -- of the children aged 0 &#8211; 14 who go to an emergency room
> as a result of an injury. And this does not include those who go as a result of illness*. 7


----------



## Dot Com

Unkotare said:


> There is no legitimate reason for having a dog for which another breed is not a better choice than a pitbull.
> 
> It is tragic how many pitbulls are put down every year (to say nothing of other pets and children killed by them) because some asshole just _had to have_ a pitbull.


yeah KG. Why did you choose that bred? Baby's daddy suggestion or because they're trendy?


koshergrl said:


> I don't believe that. Everything I've read has them close to the top.
> 
> The point is...dogs are dangerous. When you have a bunch of douches breeding and abusing a particular breed like crazy, that breed is going to be the *most likely* to attack. Millions of idiots are treating them like shit, and people who have no business having dogs at all, let alone POWERFUL dogs, are getting them and letting them run willy nilly and not supervising them properly, and being stupid about how they treat them, and putting people at risk.
> 
> Pits are potentially really dangerous. *If you aren't up for it, you shouldn't have one.* BUT the breed itself is not the problem...it's the people who are fixated on it.
> 
> Dobermans were the evil breed a few decades ago. And at some point rotties were. it's a fad. it will pass.


I seriously doubt you could restrain that 110 lb pit that you pictured KG. What makes you "up for it"?


----------



## strollingbones

why do you say that......i can restrain a 100 lb doberman......i cant do it physically but he is well trained and listens to me.....when he is on leash he stays right by me...when he is off leash he is about 3 ft from me...unless he has gone out to terrorize kids getting on the damned bus....i still cant believe he did that....


----------



## Dot Com

strollingbones said:


> why do you say that......i can restrain a 100 lb doberman......i cant do it physically but he is well trained and listens to me.....when he is on leash he stays right by me...when he is off leash he is about 3 ft from me...unless he has gone out to terrorize kids getting on the damned bus....i still cant believe he did that....



a lot of the weight of your dog accounts for the height & length. Did you see the pic that KG posted? The pitbull looks like a wound-up, spring of muscle. Incidentally, how was the name "pit bull" derived? Think about it.

I just hope KG knows what she's doing and didn't get that breed for the reasons I stated in my last post.


----------



## AmyNation

koshergrl said:


> You shouldn't have powerful dogs if you don't respect them, and if you aren't ready to deal with their little foibles.
> 
> I knew a girl who had a fondness for big dogs; and she was an idiot. She loved on them like they were chihuahuas and couldn't control them. One was a rottie that she would let out in the mornings to let run..the other was one of those big curly black dogs, I can't remember, but another tough, dominant, kind of aggressive dog..oh yeah, a bouvier.
> 
> The rott got a bullet during one of his early morning forays. The bouvier bit a jogger, then someone else, and had to be put down.
> 
> She ended up with a yorkie...which is what she should have restricted herself to from the beginning.



I'm actually going to agree with you. 

I've known several pit bull owners, and many of them treat those dogs like babies instead of powerful dogs that need a firm hand and strong guidance.


----------



## Dot Com

What I'm wondering is who came up w/ the idea to get that breed   Her BF  That is not the typical breed of dog that women get


----------



## strollingbones

i assure you k/g isnt gonna endanger her kids.....simple as that.....

i am not a pit person.....several of my friends are....and the ones who keep pits for pets dont have any issues......its the ones who want to fight them or breed them to attack that have problems....

in all fairness i will say that dobermans have been breed for family pets over the last couple of decades...they are no longer breed for aggression....i think most people think of them as more a family watch dog now....you still dont wanna see one running at you with his teeth bared....

the few times i have heard of dobies turning and its short and sweet is when you are trying to put them asses out in the cold...they do not like that....


----------



## catzmeow

Dot Com said:


> What I'm wondering is who came up w/ the idea to get that breed   Her BF  That is not the typical breed of dog that women get



My daughter and I adopted our staffordshire mix at a shelter, because she was the cutest, sweetest dog in the entire building.

You're such a fucking moron at times, dot.


----------



## Dot Com

Posts on the previous pages mention pits turning for no apparent reason. As you said, I read about a Dobie turning a few years ago too for no apparent reason. These are animals and, as such, are unpredictable. My point is why voluntarily take the risk, w/ a breed like that, ESPECIALLY when KG is basically going it alone.


----------



## Dot Com

catzmeow said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I'm wondering is who came up w/ the idea to get that breed   Her BF  That is not the typical breed of dog that women get
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My daughter and I adopted our staffordshire mix at a shelter, because she was the cutest, sweetest dog in the entire building.
> 
> You're such a fucking moron at times, dot.
Click to expand...


You're also married (as you have indicated numerous times, WITHOUT provocation I might add).   That changes the dynamic. THINK!!!


----------



## Bfgrn

catzmeow said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lab, family pet for 7 years, attacks boy:
> 
> Boy attacked by Labrador Retriever | 9news.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any dog can be a danger to humans. It is important to never completely trust any dog or pet.
> 
> But, here is the big difference in regard to pit bulls vs. other breeds.
> 
> Again, from the April 2011 edition of Annals of Surgery, Volume 253, Number 4, and is entitled "Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs."
> 
> 
> "Pit bulls not only are notorious for their indiscriminate attack pattern but also as well known for the tenacity with which they continue to attack.
> 
> 
> "The inbred tenacity of pit bulls, the unrelenting manner in which they initiate and continue their attacks, and the damage they cause are the result of both genetics and environment. Therefore, this breed of dog is inherently dangerous."
> 
> 
> "As stated by one author, 'Temperament is not the issue, nor is it even relevant. What is relevant is actuarial risk. If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable.* If a Pit Bull Terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed*, and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs and their victims are paying the price.'"
> 
> 
> "If the risk of a fatal attack is normalized to Labrador Retrievers and Labrador-mix breeds (the most common registered dog in the United States), the relative risk of death related to pit bull attacks is more than 2500 times higher."
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Issues with the study you've posted are outlined here:  http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/uploaded_files/tinymce/Bini-Commentary-FINAL.pdf
> 
> study contains lots of misinformation and inaccurate stats.  Further, most ER practitioners aren't able to knowledgeably identify dog breeds.  They are relying upon second-hand reports from victims and witnesses, most of whom aren't experts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If a significant percentage of our dogs are dogs of undocumented origin, what are we to make of
> all the dog bite statistics we have been collecting that purport to correlate a bite incident with a breed
> of a dog?6 We would be very surprised if documented ancestries are available for any of the dogs
> involved in the 82 incidents described by Dr. Bini and his collaborators as containing reliable breed
> attributions of the dogs involved.
> 
> Thus, while the authors may be able to quantify the severity of injuries suffered by the victims, an
> understanding of the nature of the American dog population, combined with a reading of the most
> recent research on visual breed identification shows that they cannot reliably correlate each incident
> with a breed of dog, whether or not a breed attribution of the dog was available.
> ...
> The authors glamorize their paper with a claim that one of every five child visits to an emergency room
> is in consequence of a dog bite. *Had they queried the publicly available database of the Centers for
> Disease Control and Prevention, they would have learned that dog bite victims aged 0 - 14 constitute
> less than 2% -- that is, less than one in fifty -- of the children aged 0  14 who go to an emergency room
> as a result of an injury. And this does not include those who go as a result of illness*. 7
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


WHO is the National Canine Research Council?


----------



## catzmeow

Dot Com said:


> catzmeow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I'm wondering is who came up w/ the idea to get that breed   Her BF  That is not the typical breed of dog that women get
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My daughter and I adopted our staffordshire mix at a shelter, because she was the cutest, sweetest dog in the entire building.
> 
> You're such a fucking moron at times, dot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're also married (as you have indicated numerous times, WITHOUT provocation I might add).   That changes the dynamic. THINK!!!
Click to expand...


I adopted the dog several years before I was married.


----------



## Dot Com

catzmeow said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> catzmeow said:
> 
> 
> 
> My daughter and I adopted our staffordshire mix at a shelter, because she was the cutest, sweetest dog in the entire building.
> 
> You're such a fucking moron at times, dot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're also married (as you have indicated numerous times, WITHOUT provocation I might add).   That changes the dynamic. THINK!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I adopted the dog several years before I was married.
Click to expand...


link...  So you lucked out. Others aren't so lucky. I'm saying, why take the chance especially when you have smallish children @ and, as Unkotare pointed out, there are NUMEROUS other breeds to choose from?


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## koshergrl

People who aren't up for it shouldn't have pits.

And people with kids shouldn't let them roll around with multiple dogs, and monitor all their interaction with any dogs.

Don't let them approach strange dogs, don't allow them to go near dogs on chains, and don't leave them alone in a room or a house with any dog(s) unless you have a fool-proof safety plan.

Until literally just the last few weeks, if I left the house and my kids were in the house, I took the saint with me. Even if I was just going out into the yard to take the garbage out, Klaus went with me. Because he's big and young and kids behave inappropriately.


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## Unkotare

-Not the best choice as a companion animal

-Not the best choice as a service dog

-Not the best choice as a watch dog

-Not the best choice as a guard dog

-Not the best choice as a hunting dog

-Not the best choice as a sled dog

-Not the best choice as an agility dog

There is no legitimate reason to expose both humans and the poor dogs themselves to the increased risk involved. And when you look at how many of the humans mauled by these dogs have been children, no rational person should even consider it.


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## earlycuyler

> --Not the best choice as a companion animal-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is BS. Take a good look at abused Pit Bulls. You wont ever find a breed that will endure the abuse and neglect thees dogs do, and still be so eager to love humans after. They only get the rep for big attitude, but none for their big hearts. For the right owner, Pits are the best companion dogs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Not the best choice as a service dog-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only because they have never been looked at seriously as service dogs. This has been changing. Denver has breed bans on pits, yet they are exempt if they are service dogs. Read about it here-
> 
> 7NEWS - Denver Allows Pit Bulls As Service Dogs - News Story
> 
> And service dogs for our disabled Vets-
> 
> Pit Bulls Used As Service Dogs For Wounded Veterans « CBS Chicago
> 
> And one more out of a billion-
> 
> What Happens When A Pit Bull is a Service Dog? - Technorati Lifestyle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Not the best choice as a watch dog-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any dog that barks makes a good guard dog. Pits bars, so they make fine guard dogs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Not the best choice as a guard dog-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same as above.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Not the best choice as a hunting dog-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe not for upland birds, but Pits will hunt like crazy. You would not hunt pheasant with a shitzu. I grew up hunting pigs with Pit Bulls. Squirrel and rabbit were in this dogs skill set to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not my dog, or my pic, but its a scene I have seen a thousand times. I dont hunt pigs with dogs any more. Its to gruesome for me. But a Pit will hunt, and will do so in a pack of mixed breeds to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --Not the best choice as a sled dog-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most likely not, but a Pit Bull will freeze to death trying to be the BEST sled dog if it knew that's what you wanted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Not the best choice as an agility dog-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not super sexy like a Border Collie, but if you look, you can see the shame in the dogs body language for failing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -There is no legitimate reason to expose both humans and the poor dogs themselves to the increased risk involved. And when you look at how many of the humans mauled by these dogs have been children, no rational person should even consider it.-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is true about all dogs, as well as horses, cattle, etc, etc. The fact that children are mauled so much falls 100% on the shoulders of the owners and parents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
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> Click to expand...
> 
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> Click to expand...
> 
> 
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> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## koshergrl

Yup.

I've watched boar hunting on tv, they actually have armor for the dogs. 

It's a little rich for me, too.

You're either up for having certain types of animals..or you aren't. Truth is, people who shouldn't have animals at all often are responsible for the bad behavior of their dogs...by letting them run off leash, by encouraging (even inadvertently) dangerous behavior...

And often people are stupid around dogs. DON'T APPROACH DOGS IF THEY AREN'T YOURS. I don't know how much more simple to make it. I love dogs...and I don't, and I taught my children to never....walk up to a dog you don't know. Either let the owner bring the dog to you, or studiously ignore the dog. Don't walk up to it or crouch down and start flapping it's ears and making silly noises or dangle your child around them. It's just stupid. 

Be aware of the dogs around you. If you see 2-3 powerful dogs off leash in an environment where you don't think there's any control being exerted, and you feel hinky, don't grab your kid and trot past them. Get the hell out of dodge and call the cops. Push for enforcement of leash laws. Push for prosecution of animal abuse/neglect. Report dangerous activities you see with dogs (if I see a group of people loitering with a bunch of loose dogs, and little kids on the ground and the dogs are not under control, I will call the authorities to report it. They might not do anything, but if enough people report this behavior, authorities will start talking to people about it when they are in the neighborhood). 

Teach your kids to stay out of people's yards, to stay away from chained dogs (not just because chained dogs are potentially dangerous themselves...but because if they get the chain/cable/rope wrapped around a part of the kid and hit the end of it, it can have devastating consequences). 

Never assume the world is a perfectly safe place for you and your children. It is not the responsibility of everyone else to make sure you are safe. Take some responsibility for your own safety. If you are nervous about certain animals, everyone who has one shouldn't be forced to get rid of theirs. Just stay away from them. And if dog attacks are an issue in an area..it's not the breed, it's the behavior...you need to deal with the environment that is leading to these attacks. Usually there are dumbasses involved who are careless with their dogs and their kids.


----------



## Unkotare

earlycuyler said:


> --Not the best choice as a companion animal-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is BS. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The breed more likely than any other to snap and turn on and kill their owner or their owner's children, elderly neighbor, etc. is NOT a good choice in companion animal.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Unkotare

earlycuyler said:


> -Not the best choice as a service dog-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only because they have never been looked at seriously as service dogs. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only because other breeds have proven more intelligent, trainable, and suited to various tasks.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Unkotare

earlycuyler said:


> -Not the best choice as a watch dog-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any dog that barks makes a good guard dog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some breeds were bred specifically for that purpose and are therefore much better at it. Pit bulls were bred for another purpose.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Unkotare

earlycuyler said:


> -Not the best choice as a hunting dog-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe not for upland birds, but Pits will hunt like crazy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To suggest that a Pit can in any way compare to any type of hound as a hunting dog is beyond absurd. Perhaps you misunderstand the purpose of a hunting dog.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## AmyNation

Pit bulls are fighting dogs. The last 30 years in the US, they have been bred largely for that purpose, if has influenced the bred as a whole.


----------



## earlycuyler

Unkotare said:


> earlycuyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --Not the best choice as a companion animal-
> 
> 
> 
> The breed more likely than any other to snap and turn on and kill their owner or their owner's children, elderly neighbor, etc. is NOT a good choice in companion animal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not so, and there is no science to back the assertion that Pit Bulls just "Snap".
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## earlycuyler

Unkotare said:


> earlycuyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Not the best choice as a hunting dog-
> 
> 
> 
> To suggest that a Pit can in any way compare to any type of hound as a hunting dog is beyond absurd. Perhaps you misunderstand the purpose of a hunting dog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are speaking on a subject of which you know little. from the age of 7 I rand our dogs after pigs with my Father, Grand Father, and brothers until I was 25. I strongly recommend you dont take my word for it, but anyone who is curious will very quickly see that you are just wrong all over the place.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Unkotare

earlycuyler said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> earlycuyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not so, and there is no science to back the assertion that Pit Bulls just "Snap".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The charts, and facts, and data have been posted here and on other threads over and over. Don't waste time denying reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Unkotare

earlycuyler said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> earlycuyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are speaking on a subject of which you know little. from the age of 7 I rand our dogs after pigs with my Father, Grand Father, and brothers until I was 25. I strongly recommend you dont take my word for it, but anyone who is curious will very quickly see that you are just wrong all over the place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the purpose of a hunting dog?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## earlycuyler

AmyNation said:


> Pit bulls are fighting dogs. The last 30 years in the US, they have been bred largely for that purpose, if has influenced the bred as a whole.



Not in the sense your statement makes them out to be. And forget about the last 30 years in the US, its been longer in this country and all over the world. In those 30 years lots of work has been done to mellow the breed, just like it was with Roti's, Dobie's, and shepherds. looting back, I remember how my Mom would freak out if the neighbors German Shepherd even looked at me, yet it was completely fine with her if I layed on a pile of pit bulls and watched TV.


----------



## earlycuyler

Unkotare said:


> earlycuyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is the purpose of a hunting dog?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hunt·ing dog
> 
> noun
> hunting dogs, plural
> 
> A dog of a breed developed for hunting
> 
> An African wild dog that has a dark coat with pale markings and a white-tipped tail, living and hunting in packs
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?clien...908f50f9bb3dd5&bpcl=35440803&biw=1366&bih=598
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Unkotare

earlycuyler said:


> . In those 30 years lots of work has been done to mellow the breed.







Do you understand what it means that you even needed to make this statement?


----------



## Unkotare

earlycuyler said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> earlycuyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> hunt·ing dog
> 
> noun
> hunting dogs, plural
> 
> A dog of a breed developed for hunting
> 
> An African wild dog that has a dark coat with pale markings and a white-tipped tail, living and hunting in packs
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?clien...908f50f9bb3dd5&bpcl=35440803&biw=1366&bih=598
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you don't know?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## earlycuyler

Unkotare said:


> earlycuyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Not the best choice as a watch dog-
> 
> 
> 
> Some breeds were bred specifically for that purpose and are therefore much better at it. Pit bulls were bred for another purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> watchdog - definition of watchdog by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
> 
> watch·dog  (wchdôg, -dg)
> n.
> 1. A dog trained to guard people or property.
> 2. One who serves as a guardian or protector against waste, loss, or illegal practices.
> 
> Any dog will fit this bill with little training.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## earlycuyler

Unkotare said:


> earlycuyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Not the best choice as a service dog-
> 
> 
> 
> Only because other breeds have proven more intelligent, trainable, and suited to various tasks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## AmyNation

earlycuyler said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pit bulls are fighting dogs. The last 30 years in the US, they have been bred largely for that purpose, if has influenced the bred as a whole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not in the sense your statement makes them out to be. And forget about the last 30 years in the US, its been longer in this country and all over the world. In those 30 years lots of work has been done to mellow the breed, just like it was with Roti's, Dobie's, and shepherds. looting back, I remember how my Mom would freak out if the neighbors German Shepherd even looked at me, yet it was completely fine with her if I layed on a pile of pit bulls and watched TV.
Click to expand...


By some people, of course, but you have far more breeders who are breeding them to fight, which means as a whole they are breeding in the traits that make the best pit fighters, it's as simple as that.

Which is why it's important that people don't pretend that pit bulls are the same as poodles, and that it's all about showering them with love. Pits need a firm hand, they need real training, and owners who understand that their dogs can kill them.


----------



## earlycuyler

Unkotare said:


> earlycuyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you don't know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said, They hunt. Your lack of knowledge here is pretty apparent. They may not be primo upland fowl dogs, but they do hunt. Check it out if you want. But I dont think you do. You would rather run your mouth and look stupid. But yeah, I know.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Dot Com

Unkotare said:


> Some breeds were bred specifically for that purpose and are therefore much better at it. Pit bulls were bred for another purpose.


This is true.


AmyNation said:


> earlycuyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pit bulls are fighting dogs. The last 30 years in the US, they have been bred largely for that purpose, if has influenced the bred as a whole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not in the sense your statement makes them out to be. And forget about the last 30 years in the US, its been longer in this country and all over the world. In those 30 years lots of work has been done to mellow the breed, just like it was with Roti's, Dobie's, and shepherds. looting back, I remember how my Mom would freak out if the neighbors German Shepherd even looked at me, yet it was completely fine with her if I layed on a pile of pit bulls and watched TV.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By some people, of course, but you have far more breeders who are breeding them to fight, which means as a whole they are breeding in the traits that make the best pit fighters, it's as simple as that.
> 
> Which is why it's important that people don't pretend that pit bulls are the same as poodles, and that it's all about showering them with love. Pits need a firm hand, they need real training, and owners who understand that their dogs can kill them.
Click to expand...


Thats what I was getting at earlier. They were bred to fight/kill in close quarters.


----------



## earlycuyler

AmyNation said:


> earlycuyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pit bulls are fighting dogs. The last 30 years in the US, they have been bred largely for that purpose, if has influenced the bred as a whole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not in the sense your statement makes them out to be. And forget about the last 30 years in the US, its been longer in this country and all over the world. In those 30 years lots of work has been done to mellow the breed, just like it was with Roti's, Dobie's, and shepherds. looting back, I remember how my Mom would freak out if the neighbors German Shepherd even looked at me, yet it was completely fine with her if I layed on a pile of pit bulls and watched TV.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By some people, of course, but you have far more breeders who are breeding them to fight, which means as a whole they are breeding in the traits that make the best pit fighters, it's as simple as that.
> 
> Which is why it's important that people don't pretend that pit bulls are the same as poodles, and that it's all about showering them with love. Pits need a firm hand, they need real training, and owners who understand that their dogs can kill them.
Click to expand...


It does not take much breeding. They are called "game dogs " for a reason. This is where the owners being responsible comes in. Thee dog fight crowed also has contaminated the breed so badly that the things that are being passed off as pit bulls are definable NOT Pit Bulls. As far as not treating your Pit Bull like its a poodle, I have to agree. And showering them with love does nothing for you. They will always love you, but you have to know that you cant take them to the dog park, you cant let them be alone with kids, or company, etc, etc. Any dog can kill its owner, and some dogs sadly need to be euthanized because there is just no place for them. But, the fact remains, Pit Bulls have no magical killing powers or prowess, their jaws dont produce 2000 pounds of bite force, they dont just "snap" and they are no more likely to attack people then any other dog is.


----------



## earlycuyler

Dot Com said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> earlycuyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats what I was getting at earlier. They were bred to fight/kill in close quarters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No they weren't. They were bred as working dogs. And they work good to. Especially for hunting pigs. I have heard of people using them for bear, but have never seen it.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## AmyNation

Pit bulls are in the top 3 breeds in bite force, and not shockingly the other dogs are rots and shepherds, both bred for attack/defense purposes.

Honestly, I'm not attempting to demonize the breed, I'm just pointing out that ignoring nature and clinging to the nurture approach is one reason why so many people are mauled and killed by pits.


----------



## earlycuyler

AmyNation said:


> Pit bulls are in the top 3 breeds in bite force, and not shockingly the other dogs are rots and shepherds, both bred for attack/defense purposes.
> 
> Honestly, I'm not attempting to demonize the breed, I'm just pointing out that ignoring nature and clinging to the nurture approach is one reason why so many people are mauled and killed by pits.



With all respect, that is a myth. Pit bulls just do everything with a 110%X10 attitude. Its not he strength of their jaws, its how they are built, and how they use them. Now, look into this face and tell me this is a killer.-







Or this one here.-






The last one is his cartoon self.


----------



## AmyNation

With all due respect, it's not a myth.

Which Dog Has the Most Powerful Bite? | eHow.com

"The dog breed with the most powerful BFQ is the Rottweiler, followed closely by the German Shepherd and the Pit Bull. "


----------



## earlycuyler

AmyNation said:


> With all due respect, it's not a myth.
> 
> Which Dog Has the Most Powerful Bite? | eHow.com
> 
> "The dog breed with the most powerful BFQ is the Rottweiler, followed closely by the German Shepherd and the Pit Bull. "



See, those were not facts. And they dont define "Pit bull" either. Their is no science in the article. Not trying to be a dick here but most folks dont know what a pit bull is, and truth be told, they are almost extinct.

See this here ?-






Many call this abomination a pit bull. And the "thing"  in that picture most surely has an amazing amount of force in its bite, and thats most likely what they refer to in the shoddy ehow article.

Now this dog here is pretty close to a true pit bull. Most likely half the size and muscle mass of what people with an agenda call a Pit Bull.-






Lots of confusion about this breed. The amazing 2,000 pound bite force is not confusion, its an untruth.


----------



## koshergrl

One of the reasons I was always uncomfortable with pits, aside from the fact that they're terriers, is that because of the structure of their heads, it's very difficult for me to read them. I can look at most dogs' and see by the way they're holding their ears, and eyes, and even their mouths, what is going on with them.

Pits have clipped ears (often) and their eyes are different than other dogs...and they have such massive jaws that even the way they hold their mouths is different. I can't looka at a picture of a dog's face and say "oh my gosh that dog would never attack". 

But I can't look at a picture of a horse (usually) and tell you if it's a threat to life and limb, either.

People who ignore the fact that large animals have the potential ability to kill, and genetics definitely plays a part in their behavior, are fooling themselves. Be smart about your dogs and others, take responsibility for your actions and the actions of your kids, teach proper dog interaction techniques and avoid the breeds you aren't fond of. 

The horse world goes through the same thing....you'll get people who like one breed demonizing another ("all Arabs are crazy! Morgans kick! Quarter horses buck! No, quarter horses love kids! Thoroughbreds rear!) and then you get the ones who say "it's all about how they're trained!" Well no, it's not. I mean, how they're trained influences how they turn out, but different breeds have different tendencies....

dogs are no different. They're bred to be different, and they are. And the breeds who are bred to put a hurt on things are going to know how to do that. So you better be up to training them, or stay the hell away.

But don't insist OTHER people avoid them as well. That's just asinine. And the retards are going to get them anyway.

It's exactly the same as the gun issue...whoever mentioned that was right.


----------



## koshergrl

earlycuyler said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> With all due respect, it's not a myth.
> 
> Which Dog Has the Most Powerful Bite? | eHow.com
> 
> "The dog breed with the most powerful BFQ is the Rottweiler, followed closely by the German Shepherd and the Pit Bull. "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See, those were not facts. And they dont define "Pit bull" either. Their is no science in the article. Not trying to be a dick here but most folks dont know what a pit bull is, and truth be told, they are almost extinct.
> 
> See this here ?-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many call this abomination a pit bull. And the "thing" in that picture most surely has an amazing amount of force in its bite, and thats most likely what they refer to in the shoddy ehow article.
> 
> Now this dog here is pretty close to a true pit bull. Most likely half the size and muscle mass of what people with an agenda call a Pit Bull.-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of confusion about this breed. The amazing 2,000 pound bite force is not confusion, its an untruth.
Click to expand...

 
The one on top looks like a staffordshire.


----------



## koshergrl




----------



## earlycuyler

koshergrl said:


> earlycuyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> With all due respect, it's not a myth.
> 
> Which Dog Has the Most Powerful Bite? | eHow.com
> 
> "The dog breed with the most powerful BFQ is the Rottweiler, followed closely by the German Shepherd and the Pit Bull. "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See, those were not facts. And they dont define "Pit bull" either. Their is no science in the article. Not trying to be a dick here but most folks dont know what a pit bull is, and truth be told, they are almost extinct.
> 
> See this here ?-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many call this abomination a pit bull. And the "thing" in that picture most surely has an amazing amount of force in its bite, and thats most likely what they refer to in the shoddy ehow article.
> 
> Now this dog here is pretty close to a true pit bull. Most likely half the size and muscle mass of what people with an agenda call a Pit Bull.-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of confusion about this breed. The amazing 2,000 pound bite force is not confusion, its an untruth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The one on top looks like a staffordshire.
Click to expand...


Its hard to say. So many mix them with so many other breed that its almost impossible to say.

Here, try this out. Its pretty fun. Hit the link and ID the Pit Bull.

Pet Pitbull - Find the Pit Bull


----------



## AmyNation

I am aware the term pit bull is a bit all encompassing.

This one puts pits in the top 4 instead of 3

Which Dog Breed Has the Strongest Jaw

However you seem to be determined to pretend that pit bulls don't have one of the most powerful bites. You can google it yourself, and discover that they in fact, do.


----------



## koshergrl




----------



## Unkotare

earlycuyler said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> earlycuyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> watchdog - definition of watchdog by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
> 
> watch·dog  (wchdôg, -dg)
> n.
> 1. A dog trained to guard people or property.
> 2. One who serves as a guardian or protector against waste, loss, or illegal practices.
> 
> Any dog will fit this bill with little training.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, so, something else you don't know. Fine.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## earlycuyler

AmyNation said:


> I am aware the term pit bull is a bit all encompassing.
> 
> This one puts pits in the top 4 instead of 3
> 
> Which Dog Breed Has the Strongest Jaw
> 
> However you seem to be determined to pretend that pit bulls don't have one of the most powerful bites. You can google it yourself, and discover that they in fact, do.



They dont. Not in foot pounds of pressure they dont, at least not until I see who did the measuring, and when and why it was done. ehow is not known for its scientific integrity.


----------



## koshergrl

They're an American treasure. Dobies went through the same kind of villification some decades ago...for the same reasons...reckless breeding, ignorant people getting them leading to genetically freaky dogs with nervous disorders and disproportionate attacks. 

I think education is really key here...and dedication to wiping out the dog fighting industry. Hard to do because it's also really big in Mexico, and we just can't regulate there. I think my son's dog came from a Mexican fighting dog breeder. 

I think Cesar Millan has the right idea...educate people, set up rehab centers for pits. Knowledge is power...we've got this problem, so we need to give people the tools they need to deal with the problem and eliminate the problem, instead of just making the dog itself illegal. Because the people who have the dogs that are the problem..they don't care if they're illegal...


----------



## AmyNation

earlycuyler said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am aware the term pit bull is a bit all encompassing.
> 
> This one puts pits in the top 4 instead of 3
> 
> Which Dog Breed Has the Strongest Jaw
> 
> However you seem to be determined to pretend that pit bulls don't have one of the most powerful bites. You can google it yourself, and discover that they in fact, do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They dont. Not in foot pounds of pressure they dont, at least not until I see who did the measuring, and when and why it was done. ehow is not known for its scientific integrity.
Click to expand...


The 2nd link I posted referenced a national geographic study which included wolves. Like I said, you can google bite force and discover for yourself


----------



## koshergrl

It is illegal to own a wolf...so breeders lie and call them wolf hybrids.

They're killers for real, and it's insane that people can own even hybrids.


----------



## earlycuyler

Unkotare said:


> earlycuyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, so, something else you don't know. Fine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are just about the biggest ignoramus . You have done nothing to show that you offered anything more then your opinion. Its like they say, "Ignorance is bliss", You sound ecstatic !
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## strollingbones

am i the only one who sees the op thread title and thinks....calling all perverts out there


----------



## earlycuyler

AmyNation said:


> earlycuyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am aware the term pit bull is a bit all encompassing.
> 
> This one puts pits in the top 4 instead of 3
> 
> Which Dog Breed Has the Strongest Jaw
> 
> However you seem to be determined to pretend that pit bulls don't have one of the most powerful bites. You can google it yourself, and discover that they in fact, do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They dont. Not in foot pounds of pressure they dont, at least not until I see who did the measuring, and when and why it was done. ehow is not known for its scientific integrity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The 2nd link I posted referenced a national geographic study which included wolves. Like I said, you can google bite force and discover for yourself
Click to expand...



From your link-

Which Dog Breed Has the Strongest Jaw



> -When discussing which dog breed has the strongest jaw, it is important to keep in mind that this is a rhetorical question that cannot be answered in a definite way.The strength of a dog's bite will vary from breed to breed, animal to animal, and even circumstance to circumstance. -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this from the same article-
> 
> The strength of the bite of a breed can't be measured with any accuracy because you can't teach a dog to bite with consistent force time after time. The bite will be different each time it is measured, and each dog will have a slightly different measurement. It is important to keep in mind that when the bite force of a breed is discussed, it can only be in a general way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Trained dogs typically have a higher bite force than untrained ones. A human averages 120 pounds bite force. -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing conclusive there. As a matter of fact, Nat. Geo. just quoted some other peoples numbers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## AmyNation

I could post more links, but it's clear that you are sure in your belief that it's all hype and that there is no physical difference between pit bulls and other breeds. So really there's no point in continue to argue with you.


----------



## Unkotare

earlycuyler said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> earlycuyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are just about the biggest ignoramus . You have done nothing to show that you offered anything more then your opinion. Its like they say, "Ignorance is bliss", You sound ecstatic !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List of Watchdogs - Best Watchdogs - Watch Dogs
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Unkotare

Hunting Dogs, Gun Dogs, Dogs you can Hunt with


----------



## Unkotare

Top 10 service dogs

10 Smartest Dog Breeds: Most Teachable, Trainable Dogs


----------



## catzmeow

AmyNation said:


> The 2nd link I posted referenced a national geographic study which included wolves. Like I said, you can google bite force and discover for yourself


Referenced, but link is broken so we can't look at the study to see how it was conducted.  Do you have a working link to this "study"?

Here's a video about it...between the german shepherd, rottweiler, and pit, the pitbull's bite was the weakest.


----------



## Unkotare

Top 10 Dog Breeds for Children


----------



## AmyNation

catzmeow said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 2nd link I posted referenced a national geographic study which included wolves. Like I said, you can google bite force and discover for yourself
> 
> 
> 
> Referenced, but link is broken so we can't look at the study to see how it was conducted.  Do you have a working link to this "study"?
> 
> Here's a video about it...between the german shepherd, rottweiler, and pit, the pitbull's bite was the weakest.
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbwMs7cjK0Y]Bite force competition. Pitbull, Rottweiler, and Shepherd - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-9UNEDbXAc&feature=related]Which dog has the highest bite force in the world? It comes down to the larger domestic dogs. - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...


This is true, you can say "out of the 3 it's the weakest", or you can say "its in the top 3 most powerful biters". 

2 sides, same coin.


----------



## earlycuyler

AmyNation said:


> I could post more links, but it's clear that you are sure in your belief that it's all hype and that there is no physical difference between pit bulls and other breeds. So really there's no point in continue to argue with you.



All the link go's to the same thing, which is, testing the force in a dogs bits is not really doable. Its like testing which human is the strongest.


----------



## catzmeow

AmyNation said:


> catzmeow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 2nd link I posted referenced a national geographic study which included wolves. Like I said, you can google bite force and discover for yourself
> 
> 
> 
> Referenced, but link is broken so we can't look at the study to see how it was conducted.  Do you have a working link to this "study"?
> 
> Here's a video about it...between the german shepherd, rottweiler, and pit, the pitbull's bite was the weakest.
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbwMs7cjK0Y]Bite force competition. Pitbull, Rottweiler, and Shepherd - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-9UNEDbXAc&feature=related]Which dog has the highest bite force in the world? It comes down to the larger domestic dogs. - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is true, you can say "out of the 3 it's the weakest", or you can say "its in the top 3 most powerful biters".
> 
> 2 sides, same coin.
Click to expand...


Except it isn't.  The second video shows dogs wth much harder bites, such as mastiffs and kangals.


----------



## earlycuyler

catzmeow said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 2nd link I posted referenced a national geographic study which included wolves. Like I said, you can google bite force and discover for yourself
> 
> 
> 
> Referenced, but link is broken so we can't look at the study to see how it was conducted.  Do you have a working link to this "study"?
> 
> Here's a video about it...between the german shepherd, rottweiler, and pit, the pitbull's bite was the weakest.
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbwMs7cjK0Y]Bite force competition. Pitbull, Rottweiler, and Shepherd - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-9UNEDbXAc&feature=related]Which dog has the highest bite force in the world? It comes down to the larger domestic dogs. - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...


My neighbor has a border collie that can bite butcher bones in half. Obviously, it has some powerful jaws, but are they THE most powerful ? Amy, dont get me wrong, im not trying bust your balls, at least you read the stuff before you post it. In the end, it does not matter how much force they bite with. Its enough to be bad when it happens, and because of that they need responsible owners. 

Cats, cool video.


----------



## earlycuyler

catzmeow said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> catzmeow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Referenced, but link is broken so we can't look at the study to see how it was conducted.  Do you have a working link to this "study"?
> 
> Here's a video about it...between the german shepherd, rottweiler, and pit, the pitbull's bite was the weakest.
> 
> Bite force competition. Pitbull, Rottweiler, and Shepherd - YouTube
> 
> Which dog has the highest bite force in the world? It comes down to the larger domestic dogs. - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is true, you can say "out of the 3 it's the weakest", or you can say "its in the top 3 most powerful biters".
> 
> 2 sides, same coin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except it isn't.  The second video shows dogs wth much harder bites, such as mastiffs and kangals.
Click to expand...


And no one ever mentions the American Bulldog or the Presa Canario, a dog regularly accused of being a Pit Bull. They are normally twice the size of a Pit with twice the muscle. No way a 45 pound dog will out do this thing.


----------



## earlycuyler

Unkotare said:


> Top 10 service dogs
> 
> 10 Smartest Dog Breeds: Most Teachable, Trainable Dogs



the thing is, Pit Bulls are service dogs. Your wrong. Deal with it.


----------



## koshergrl

Cesar (I think it was him) says that the reason pit bites are so devastating isn't necessarily how powerful the bite itself it..it's the fact that they hold and tear (which is terrier behavior). They clamp on, hang on, and occasionally shake their head...that's how terriers kill prey (smaller prey it breaks the neck/back..larger prety it disembowels/breaks bones). When he and klaus play, klaus bites (in play) his SHOULDER. Because that completely incapacitates a four legged animal in a fight. He puts his whole mouth over the femur bone that leads up into the shoulder. 

I think Snoop targets the same area...but he plays differently. He gets mad because klaus has size on him and he can't really just push him around and he won't go ballistic on him. When he gets grumpy, klaus either rolls over or runs around him and since klaus is bigger/faster, that does it. I think when Snoop gets mad he targets the side of the neck. Like when Klaus has a stick and won't let him have it...when Snoop finally gets frustrated he'll run at him and bite the side of his neck (it still doesn't work, klaus just runs away and then snoop pouts).


----------



## earlycuyler

Unkotare said:


> Hunting Dogs, Gun Dogs, Dogs you can Hunt with



So then what are you saying ? Pleas, be clear.


----------



## koshergrl

Klaus grabs the stick and runs out into the ocean and it irritates the heck out of snoop because the water that Klaus can easily stand in knocks Snoop off his feet and freezes the heck out of him. He essentially doesn't have any hair, lol...and Klaus has that oily double coat.


----------



## earlycuyler

koshergrl said:


> Cesar (I think it was him) says that the reason pit bites are so devastating isn't necessarily how powerful the bite itself it..it's the fact that they hold and tear (which is terrier behavior). They clamp on, hang on, and occasionally shake their head...that's how terriers kill prey (smaller prey it breaks the neck/back..larger prety it disembowels/breaks bones). When he and klaus play, klaus bites (in play) his SHOULDER. Because that completely incapacitates a four legged animal in a fight. He puts his whole mouth over the femur bone that leads up into the shoulder.
> 
> I think Snoop targets the same area...but he plays differently. He gets mad because klaus has size on him and he can't really just push him around and he won't go ballistic on him. When he gets grumpy, klaus either rolls over or runs around him and since klaus is bigger/faster, that does it. I think when Snoop gets mad he targets the side of the neck. Like when Klaus has a stick and won't let him have it...when Snoop finally gets frustrated he'll run at him and bite the side of his neck (it still doesn't work, klaus just runs away and then snoop pouts).



Dont know. In my experience, everything pits do they do 100%. And they dont always shake, and they can learn not to. We had a catch dog named Rocco, who would hang on for dear life, but never shake. If you think about our flesh, its not all that tough, and against a dogs jaws, even small ones could do a number on us.


----------



## koshergrl

My jack could do a number on a person.

When she grabs, she takes a whole mouthful, clear back to her back teeth. She's nailed all my boys in the ass, lol.


----------



## Dot Com

Allie is getting the same response to this thread as if she just announced that she bought a gun & was going to leave it loaded on the coffee table


----------



## koshergrl

Oh you mean if I'd posted that the only negative response would be from a couple of weirdo stalkers?

Not exactly.


----------



## Dot Com

...


----------



## Dabs

Pit Bulls....they have such a bad rep.
And I don't help much, I have to admit, if I see somebody has one in their yard, my ass isn't getting out of my car...till the owner comes and takes it under control.
My son has a pit...he has had her for almost 7 years now....I was terrified when he first got her, because he and his girlfriend had just had their first baby.
I kept telling him...get rid of the dog, get rid of the dog....I literally was scared the dog...they named it Happy, would attack my grandchild.
Now...I am not scared of Happy anymore....she used to intimidate me...but I feel comfortable around her now.
But some pits look ferocious! They scare me.


----------



## koshergrl

They can be ferocious.

I wouldn't get out either, until I know the dog is under control.


----------



## Duped

earlycuyler said:


> catzmeow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is true, you can say "out of the 3 it's the weakest", or you can say "its in the top 3 most powerful biters".
> 
> 2 sides, same coin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except it isn't.  The second video shows dogs wth much harder bites, such as mastiffs and kangals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And no one ever mentions the American Bulldog or the Presa Canario, a dog regularly accused of being a Pit Bull. They are normally twice the size of a Pit with twice the muscle. No way a 45 pound dog will out do this thing.
Click to expand...

y
Mine is 160.8lb at last weigh - 100% APBT. What you don't understand is a pit is bred to win! They are GAME bred along with the fact that they tolerate pain better than any animal on earth, because they have much less pain recepters! Even if another dog is physically winning, he realizes that he is not impressive. This works on the psychology of the kerr, and he want's out - there is no out!


----------



## Unkotare

Here we see a perfect example of some asshole boasting about how 'tough' his dog is. THIS is where tragedy originates.


----------



## earlycuyler

Duped said:


> earlycuyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> catzmeow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Except it isn't.  The second video shows dogs wth much harder bites, such as mastiffs and kangals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And no one ever mentions the American Bulldog or the Presa Canario, a dog regularly accused of being a Pit Bull. They are normally twice the size of a Pit with twice the muscle. No way a 45 pound dog will out do this thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> y
> Mine is 160.8lb at last weigh - 100% APBT. What you don't understand is a pit is bred to win! They are GAME bred along with the fact that they tolerate pain better than any animal on earth, because they have much less pain recepters! Even if another dog is physically winning, he realizes that he is not impressive. This works on the psychology of the kerr, and he want's out - there is no out!
Click to expand...


Hm. I f you have his lines I would love to talk to you about those, but you said it better then me. They are all about winning, period. I would only add that winning for YOU is what matters. They are very selfless dogs. And they do have an incredible tolerance to pain. They are also about the most loyal dogs on the planet. As for bite strength, your dog is at 100+, going by the linked articles, the average true pit, as well as the abomination that get lumped under that category as the strongest biter, and most viscous dogs. Basically they are saying a true pit that on average weighs 45 to 60 pounds bites with a pressure equal to that of your 180 pound dog. Its BS.


----------



## earlycuyler

Unkotare said:


> Here we see a perfect example of some asshole boasting about how 'tough' his dog is. THIS is where tragedy originates.



You are a dick. You post half truths and lies, and cry when you are called on. What a cry babe.


----------



## Unkotare

earlycuyler said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here we see a perfect example of some asshole boasting about how 'tough' his dog is. THIS is where tragedy originates.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are a dick. You post half truths and lies, and cry when you are called on. What a cry babe.
Click to expand...



I must have missed the part where I was crying. Take it easy on the moonshine, Jethrow.


----------



## Duped

earlycuyler said:


> Duped said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> earlycuyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> And no one ever mentions the American Bulldog or the Presa Canario, a dog regularly accused of being a Pit Bull. They are normally twice the size of a Pit with twice the muscle. No way a 45 pound dog will out do this thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> y
> Mine is 160.8lb at last weigh - 100% APBT. What you don't understand is a pit is bred to win! They are GAME bred along with the fact that they tolerate pain better than any animal on earth, because they have much less pain recepters! Even if another dog is physically winning, he realizes that he is not impressive. This works on the psychology of the kerr, and he want's out - there is no out!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hm. I f you have his lines I would love to talk to you about those, but you said it better then me. They are all about winning, period. I would only add that winning for YOU is what matters. They are very selfless dogs. And they do have an incredible tolerance to pain. They are also about the most loyal dogs on the planet. As for bite strength, your dog is at 100+, going by the linked articles, the average true pit, as well as the abomination that get lumped under that category as the strongest biter, and most viscous dogs. Basically they are saying a true pit that on average weighs 45 to 60 pounds bites with a pressure equal to that of your 180 pound dog. Its BS.
Click to expand...

My dog comes from Land of Giants Kennels Gardner Mass - Ken Buzzel. I wouldn't deal with him again! Anyway his dogs were bred for size, and temperment for 30, years! If you know anything about genetics - you know what I'm saying? The APBT is a all American breed. The frontier was conquered with the pit bull right there by the side! It is such a shame what the has happened to the breed. They come in all sizes, and shapes. Read This Is the American Pit Bull Terrior - I've read four books, and spoke at great length with a man who bred, and fought pit bulls for 30+ years - I do not agree with dog fighting, but the game it has produced is an awesome thing. I have owned them since I was a young man. If you want to see something cool, watch them pig hunt.


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## Unkotare

People like you shouldn't be allowed to own any kind of dog.


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## Duped

Unkotare said:


> People like you shouldn't be allowed to own any kind of dog.


 Fuck you - this is a free country. Assholes like you want to tell others how to live - I'm a tenth generation American former Marine. My family has sacrificed more for freedom than yours ever will - I own whatever the fuck I want bitch!


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## Unkotare

I didn't ask for your life story, asshole. It's pieces of shit like YOU that guarantee suffering for both humans and pit bulls. You shouldn't be allowed to own a pet rock, let a lone a dog. Scum like YOU are the problem.


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## strollingbones

i am just bored with the bickering and posted this....jake and thor


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## strollingbones

he is a cold blooded killer:


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## Dot Com

this thread isn't going exactly the way kg wanted & for good reason. Even her usual detractors on this board are now concerned about her. I bet a man told her what breed to get and she was "submissive", like Bachmann (R) says good christian women are supposed to be, & said ok baby daddy.


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## koshergrl

Are you brain damaged?


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## Dot Com

So she DID do a "Bachmann (R)"  Typical.


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## koshergrl

What the hell are you talking about?

You really should stop stalking me, weirdo.


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## Dot Com

...saying i'm concerned about a potentially disastrous decision you've made is stalking?  OK. You still won't say why you decided on the breed you did. I highly doubt that you came up w/ it on your own.


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## koshergrl

Again, I have no idea what you're talking about, you nitwit. I have a saint and a jack.


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## earlycuyler

Unkotare said:


> earlycuyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here we see a perfect example of some asshole boasting about how 'tough' his dog is. THIS is where tragedy originates.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are a dick. You post half truths and lies, and cry when you are called on. What a cry babe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I must have missed the part where I was crying. Take it easy on the moonshine, Jethrow.
Click to expand...


Only if you go drink some bleach Joe.


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## Duped

Unkotare said:


> I didn't ask for your life story, asshole. It's pieces of shit like YOU that guarantee suffering for both humans and pit bulls. You shouldn't be allowed to own a pet rock, let a lone a dog. Scum like YOU are the problem.[/QUOTE You sound as smart as a pet rock.
> There are alot of misconceptions on this thread, and kerr dogs really have no place here. I would suggest that if you really wanted to learn about the APBT, then read what is written by those who helped create the breed. This dog was bred for GAME - learn what that means, and you will better understand the breed. Did you know that champions weren't necessarily bred? If the dog's gameness wasn't tested; it wasn't utilized. They would have bred a consummate loser that would not relent than a grand champion who's technique subjugated! Look at some old pictures of the APBT, and you will see that they come in all sizes, and shapes - from 35lbs to 150+. For all of you who demonize the breed - fuck you. You will never hope to have the attributes of the APBT. They are the greatest companions on earth - most capable!


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## Unkotare

Duped said:


> You sound as smart as a pet rock.





I can see why you would find that intimidating.


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## Unkotare

Duped said:


> They are the greatest companions on earth






No, they are not. The record speaks for itself.


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## Duped

Unkotare said:


> Duped said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are the greatest companions on earth
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they are not. The record speaks for itself.
Click to expand...

The record is clear: Your an asshole, and blacks took a breed that was called " The Children's Nursemates " during world war 3 " and fucked them over so bad that morons like you who have never owned one go around demonising them! At the same time you stick up for the culprit; the degenerate race that doesn't give a fuck about you!


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## Unkotare

Duped said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Duped said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are the greatest companions on earth
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they are not. The record speaks for itself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The record is clear:
Click to expand...




The record clearly shows that you are a shitbag racist and an idiot.


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## strollingbones

so i am taking yoda to the vet....i get there and a man, his daughter and his massive pit bull are sitting on a bench waiting for the vet....so i exit my car and begin a discussion with the man and his kid...of course we are talking about his pit....which he was boarding cause his brother in law was terrified of the dog...he admits the dog picked up on it and just had fun with it..thus they are boarding the pit...

i mention i have a kitten with me....dude goes.....he is real good with other dogs....cats not so much.....so i opt to keep my kitten in the car till he is totally finished.....i am in the vet....the dude comes back 3 times to add information to the dogs record...how much to feed when to feed....he has treats etc...

my low volume vet...treats a lot of pits.....due to being low volume and keeping the waiting room empty but for your appointment...and still as a responsible dog owner...i do not ever force a passing of the dobie and a pit...in closed quarters you would just be stupid to do that...they can go to the air in heartbeat and once they engage ...its hard to get them apart...

o damn feeding time....


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## koshergrl

Klaus has taken Mylo to the mat 2x in the last couple of weeks. Both times because she attacked him, and he didn't hurt her...but neither one stopped until I stopped them. If it continues she's going to have to go. Flipping terriers, I'm never getting another one...nor another female. For myself I'm not worried, Klaus is easy to control, but I don't want the kids in the middle of that.


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## strollingbones

damn i hate that for you....i have the occasional clash but nothing big....did return home to find blood all over the floor and walk....hubby caught that one..and cleaned it up...it was funny....buddie was uninjuried...everyone else had ear leather rips....


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## strollingbones

with a childless house...i can tolerate more


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## koshergrl

Yeah, just for me...I wasn't scared and felt safe wading in. Well, one is never safe around Mylo when she gets to biting but I don't fear for my life from her...and Klaus wasn't so committed I had to do much. No blood, but he goes right for her back. Last night it was because he had a piece of cardboard, from a paper towel roll, and she thought she'd just take it from him. She's always been able to just take anything she wants from him, but he isn't going to allow that any more. I have always said he's sweet natured and he'll submit temporarily to keep the peace..but he's not a truly submissive dog. He's just a kind dog, and he's drawing some lines with Mylo. The thing is, she won't submit either. So we'll see how it goes...she'll either learn the lesson, or she won't. And if she won't, she's got to go. I know a lady who had 4 jacks (can you imagine...sounds like the 9th circle of hell) maybe she can help me place her, if I have to. I hate to do it too...Mylo was freaked out for a year when we got her, I know how hard it is on them to go to new people.


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## strollingbones

yea they miss their people for a long time....i know billie is just starting to accept us as new people after a year and half but cats are like that.....dogs will normally settle in quicker and its not like you are just gonna forget about her...now is it?


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## koshergrl

No I won't, but it will be hard on her if it happens. Let's hope it doesn't. These little behaviors all originate with my kids and the stupid things they do. The first time, my daughter was eating and the dogs were both at the table and she was talking to them...which is a HUGE no-no, but she does it anyway if I'm not sitting there with her. Second time, the cardboard tube in question was one that my son had been playing with, with klaus, making funny sounds with it..Klaus was obsessed and as soon as the boy put it down, he picked it up and pulled it apart. He had a dollar-sized piece of it and that's what Mylo tried to take, and he objected mightily. That was his Special Thing. I took it from him after he stomped Mylo and he got to watch me throw it away.


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## catzmeow

You know, my pit is super good with my cats and bunny.  She doesn't chase them and has never tried to harm any of them.  One of the cats was a kitten when we got her, and she bonded with tally (the pit).  They sleep together most nights, with the cat curled right up against the dog.

I know this is going to sound crazy, but the bunny and two of the cats came to us before they were even weaned...they were tiny.  And Tally was allowed, very gently to sniff and nuzzle them.  Somehow she figured out that she wasn't supposed to play rough with them or hurt them, and that they weren't squeaky toys to be dismembered, but that they were part of our family.  She cries at night if the cats aren't all inside the house at bedtime.


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## koshergrl

My son had a pet house bunny that had the run of the house for 2 years with his pit.


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## earlycuyler

koshergrl said:


> My son had a pet house bunny that had the run of the house for 2 years with his pit.



 I would have eaten the bunny, with lots of black pepper.


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## Dot Com

catzmeow said:


> You know, my pit is super good with my cats and bunny.  She doesn't chase them and has never tried to harm any of them.  One of the cats was a kitten when we got her, and she bonded with tally (the pit).  They sleep together most nights, with the cat curled right up against the dog.
> 
> I know this is going to sound crazy, but the bunny and two of the cats came to us before they were even weaned...they were tiny.  And Tally was allowed, very gently to sniff and nuzzle them.  Somehow she figured out that she wasn't supposed to play rough with them or hurt them, and that they weren't squeaky toys to be dismembered, but that they were part of our family.  She cries at night if the cats aren't all inside the house at bedtime.



isn't that special   asswipe. Stop acting like an emo chick on her period.


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## catzmeow

Dot Com said:


> catzmeow said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know, my pit is super good with my cats and bunny.  She doesn't chase them and has never tried to harm any of them.  One of the cats was a kitten when we got her, and she bonded with tally (the pit).  They sleep together most nights, with the cat curled right up against the dog.
> 
> I know this is going to sound crazy, but the bunny and two of the cats came to us before they were even weaned...they were tiny.  And Tally was allowed, very gently to sniff and nuzzle them.  Somehow she figured out that she wasn't supposed to play rough with them or hurt them, and that they weren't squeaky toys to be dismembered, but that they were part of our family.  She cries at night if the cats aren't all inside the house at bedtime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> isn't that special   asswipe. Stop acting like an emo chick on her period.
Click to expand...


^Look who's dating warbler now.


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## Dot Com

why aren't you up in the debate sub-forum  Look woman: the only reason I called you an emo chick is because you seem to take shit so seriously on this board. I don't call people names other than toned down words like asswipe or dope.  Stop cussing me out through back-channels or continue on. Understood? Carry-on.


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## koshergrl

Shut up you creepy stalker.


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## Dot Com

that is just a brilliant retort. I'm speechless.


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## koshergrl

Thank goodness.


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## Dot Com

why don't you just go buy a pitbull & leave the rest of us alone mkay?


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## koshergrl

You're trolling my thread, stalker. I didn't come looking for you.


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## earlycuyler




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## koshergrl

Ooooh...scary! lol..I love the red velvet looking bankie.


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## earlycuyler

Yeah, he stole that. But yeah, this is the height of this dogs activity, unless I get him out doing stuff.


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## koshergrl

Yeah, Snoop is pretty much just a snuggler too.


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## Katzndogz

earlycuyler said:


>



That dog looks exactly like a pit I rescued from a fighting ring.  Exactly right down to the brown around his eye.

I found my pit an excellent family home.   He was apprehensive around dogs, so they got him his own kitten for company.   He treated that kitten like he was the momma.


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## lillys7

I love this thread. i work at a veterinary hospital and most pits are friendly, playful and imo beautiful dogs.
A couple have been very aggressive ( again...the training, or lack of I should say)

There is one that comes in named "Haas"...he has a great owner and this dog is awesome. =>


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## Dot Com

lillys7 said:


> I love this thread. i work at a veterinary hospital and most pits are friendly, playful and imo beautiful dogs.
> A couple have been very aggressive ( again...the training, or lack of I should say)
> 
> There is one that comes in named "Haas"...he has a great owner and this dog is awesome. =>



my friend owns one


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