# EPA poised to formally repeal Clean Power Plan in major blow to Obama’s climate legacy



## bripat9643 (Oct 6, 2017)

WINNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EPA poised to formally repeal Clean Power Plan in major blow to Obama’s climate legacy​
_The Environmental Protection Agency is expected to soon formally repeal the Clean Power Plan (CPP) in what would be one of the biggest blows yet to former President Barack Obama’s legacy on climate change. 

A draft proposal of the EPA’s conclusions, leaked to news outlets over the past 24 hours, argues that the plan — which would limit carbon emissions from power plants and, in the process, drastically reduce the amount of coal-generated electricity in the U.S. — goes beyond the bounds of federal law and unnecessarily hikes energy prices for consumers. 

.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .

“The EPA is proposing to repeal the CPP in its entirety,” the agency says in its draft conclusion._​


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## Asclepias (Oct 6, 2017)

Pittsburgh thanks you for bringing back the good ole winning days.


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## bripat9643 (Oct 6, 2017)

Asclepias said:


> Pittsburgh thanks you for bringing back the good ole winning days.


Is that how Pittsburgh looked when Obama was elected?


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## Asclepias (Oct 6, 2017)

bripat9643 said:


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What Pittsburgh Looked Like When It Decided It Had a Pollution Problem


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## bripat9643 (Oct 6, 2017)

Asclepias said:


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So repealing the so-called Clean Power Plan wouldn't make the slightest difference in the cleanliness of Pittsburgh's air.

That's all we needed to know.

BTW.  How do you know that isn't fog in the picture?


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## BlindBoo (Oct 6, 2017)

Forget about destroying the legacy of President Obama.  President Blurtamus is creating his own legacy.


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## Frankeneinstein (Oct 6, 2017)

bripat9643 said:


> WINNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> EPA poised to formally repeal Clean Power Plan in major blow to Obama’s climate legacy​
> _The Environmental Protection Agency is expected to soon formally repeal the Clean Power Plan (CPP) in what would be one of the biggest blows yet to former President Barack Obama’s legacy on climate change.
> ...


Major blow to the lefts bank account...watch the withdrawl type thrashing they go through when this hits the fan


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## ABikerSailor (Oct 6, 2017)

Yep, lets go ahead and get rid of all the regulations for clean water and air.

Gotta thin out the herd somehow, might as well do it making the rich richer and killing the environment.


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## bripat9643 (Oct 6, 2017)

BlindBoo said:


> Forget about destroying the legacy of President Obama.  President Blurtamus is creating his own legacy.


Obamacare is the only thing left of the messiah's "legacy," and that's a disgrace.  Obama will be remembered forever as the president who destroyed out healthcare.


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## otto105 (Oct 6, 2017)

BlindBoo said:


> Forget about destroying the legacy of President Obama.  President Blurtamus is creating his own legacy.



And that legacy will be....noted as the fall of a once good party.


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## bripat9643 (Oct 6, 2017)

ABikerSailor said:


> Yep, lets go ahead and get rid of all the regulations for clean water and air.
> 
> Gotta thin out the herd somehow, might as well do it making the rich richer and killing the environment.



If we got rid of all the regulations since Obama ascended the throne, what would it hurt? Was the air too dirty in 2008?


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## AVISSSER (Oct 6, 2017)

They no lo


Asclepias said:


> Pittsburgh thanks you for bringing back the good ole winning days.


They no longer have the industry to generate that level of pollution. The new Pittsburgh is in China.


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## TomParks (Oct 6, 2017)

bripat9643 said:


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Trump is kicking ass no doubt about it......the fuzzy bunny brigade will choke on their bran cereal after reading this


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## bripat9643 (Oct 6, 2017)

otto105 said:


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There was never anything good about the Democrat party.


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## Frankeneinstein (Oct 6, 2017)

Asclepias said:


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got


Asclepias said:


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got anything


ABikerSailor said:


> Yep, lets go ahead and get rid of all the regulations for clean water and air.
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> Gotta thin out the herd somehow, might as well do it making the rich richer and killing the environment.


Yeah, nice try...scamming money from the tax payer and in return you give them oxygen... no more money for you, try 3 card monte down on the corner


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## bripat9643 (Oct 6, 2017)

TomParks said:


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They keep claiming that Trump isn't getting anything done, but almost daily they are having fits over the latest thing he did.


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 6, 2017)

Asclepias said:


> Pittsburgh thanks you for bringing back the good ole winning days.



Talk about a drama queen, hey precious remind us again why some one 3,000 miles away should regulate water puddles in Wyoming?


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Oct 6, 2017)

Asclepias said:


> Pittsburgh thanks you for bringing back the good ole winning days.



If that's what we were returning to you might have a point, but since it's not, feel free to waste your own time trolling away.


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## TomParks (Oct 6, 2017)

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He has done more to protect the American worker in 10 months than the last airheads did in 24 years


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## Asclepias (Oct 6, 2017)

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Pittsburgh thanks Drumpf for keeping their air clean.

Clean Air for Pittsburgh


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## toobfreak (Oct 6, 2017)

bripat9643 said:


> WINNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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> EPA poised to formally repeal Clean Power Plan in major blow to Obama’s climate legacy​


​

Ahhh!  That Donald Trump!  Just when you don't think you can love him any more, he turns around and kicks Obama and the Left squarely hard in the nuts, again!

IF ONLY they could find just a HINT of wrongdoing to impeach him with!


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## AVISSSER (Oct 6, 2017)

P


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Sixth in the nation? Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeiiit. Compared with the rest of the world...the air quality in the US is aces. Even Paris has worse air quality than LA and Pittsburgh doesn't even rate.

Pant by numbers: the cities with the most dangerous air – listed


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 6, 2017)

bripat9643 said:


> WINNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> EPA poised to formally repeal Clean Power Plan in major blow to Obama’s climate legacy​
> _The Environmental Protection Agency is expected to soon formally repeal the Clean Power Plan (CPP) in what would be one of the biggest blows yet to former President Barack Obama’s legacy on climate change.
> ...



Excellent!


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 6, 2017)

Asclepias said:


> Pittsburgh thanks you for bringing back the good ole winning days.




Ummmm...that's not from CO2. Moron.


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## Asclepias (Oct 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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Where do you see anything about CO2 moron?


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 6, 2017)

bripat9643 said:


> WINNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> EPA poised to formally repeal Clean Power Plan in major blow to Obama’s climate legacy​
> _The Environmental Protection Agency is expected to soon formally repeal the Clean Power Plan (CPP) in what would be one of the biggest blows yet to former President Barack Obama’s legacy on climate change.
> ...


This is just a dog and pony show for the base, and a handout to the fossil fuel industry.  It will be "repeal and replace", not just repeal. And it will be replaced by much of the same content, and just rebranded.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 6, 2017)

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OP>>>>>>>_A draft proposal of the EPA’s conclusions, leaked to news outlets over the past 24 hours, argues that the plan — which would limit carbon emissions from power plants and, in the process, drastically reduce the amount of coal-generated electricity in the U.S. — goes beyond the bounds of federal law and unnecessarily hikes energy prices for consumers. 

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MORON.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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 From the actual fact sheet for the act:

"

From the soot and smog reductions alone, for every dollar invested through the Clean Power Plan—American families will see *up to $7* in health benefits.

The Clean Power Plan will reduce pollutants that contribute to the soot and smog that make people sick by *over 25 percent* in 2030*.*
*54,000 to 56,000 tons* of PM2.5
*424,000 to 471,000 tons* of sulfur dioxide
*407,000 to 428,000 tons* of nitrogen dioxide

In other words, it was supposed to do a lot more than just limit carbon emissions.  so settle down.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 6, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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*From the soot and smog reductions alone, for every dollar invested through the Clean Power Plan—American families will see up to $7 in health benefits.
*
I heard it was going to save every family $2500 a year on their premiums.

*In other words, it was supposed to do a lot more than just limit carbon emissions. 
*
I agree.
It was going to increase the cost of electricity, make our power grid less stable and weaken our economy.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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Yes, I'm sure that's the conclusion you reached after your extensive research.


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## bripat9643 (Oct 6, 2017)

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That's EPA bullshit.  The clean power plan would cost American families hundreds of dollars every year, if not thousands.

Name one person who a doctor diagnosed as "sick from air pollution."


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 6, 2017)

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Why? It's not my job to introduce you to reality . Look it up yourself.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 6, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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Experience with liberal schemes.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 6, 2017)

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 Beats having an actual education, right?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 6, 2017)

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Wrong, liberal schemes are much worse than having an education.

If Americans were better educated, there'd be many fewer liberal politicians and fewer liberal schemes.


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## Billy_Bob (Oct 6, 2017)

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Its fun watching you libtards self-destruct..

Our current scrubbing technologies will never allow a return to those days.  We know how to remove particulates and other items from our smoke stacks.  Too bad that you scaremongers cant even be honest about the basics..


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## bripat9643 (Oct 6, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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I have looked it up.  There are no such cases.  That's reality.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 6, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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Right.... yet, the more educated a person, the more likely he is liberal.  Odd that reality does not match up with the thoughts flowing from your colon.  Wait, no it isnt...


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 6, 2017)

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You looked up nothing.  You are making things up, and your standard is absurd anyway.  You have no idea what you are talking about, and doctors will continue to follow the recommendations of medical societies over blog-educated nonexperts like you.


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 6, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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Yea, they are so educated they don't know how to vote in midterms.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 6, 2017)

bear513 said:


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GOP got 52% of votes in 2014 midterm House elections.  Not a big difference.


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 6, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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The biggest win by republicans in decades and you say not a big difference, you really do show your age on here.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 6, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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It's funny that liberals were Grubered but conservatives were not.
It must be your education, eh comrade?


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## Billy_Bob (Oct 6, 2017)

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BWhaaaaaaaaaa

More bull shit from the Fort fun Troll...

When you cant disprove what has been stated you take aim at the person..  Standard lib troll..  Speaking of a lack of education, 98% of operating coal fired plants have 99.998% clean emissions from their stacks TODAY!  the Obama Scam was an attempt to subvert working technologies in favor of unreliable and high priced democrap money stealing scams.  CAGW is just one of them they use to justify this kind of crap..

An educated person can see the scam for what it is...


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## bripat9643 (Oct 6, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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The longer you spend being brainwashed, the more likely it is to stick.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 6, 2017)

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But they still only got 52% of the votes, despite winning 57% of the seats. We know this is because of how the districts have been drawn.  These are simple facts, not sure why you are getting huffy.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 6, 2017)

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Yes, all of the major medical societies are wrong, and you two geniuses have outsmarted them.  Okay.


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## bripat9643 (Oct 6, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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Then it should be easy for you to produce an example.  We're all waiting.


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## bripat9643 (Oct 6, 2017)

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All the major medical societies?  Aside from the EPA, who says anyone will be saved by this vast expenditure of money?


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 6, 2017)

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an example of what?  of pollution making people ill?  Like I said, i am not your mommy.  Look it up yourself. You can start with the website of literally any major medical society on the planet.

"Aside from the EPA, who says anyone will be saved by this vast expenditure of money?"

all of the major medical societies.  Again, educate yourself, it's not my job to raise manbabies.


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## Billy_Bob (Oct 6, 2017)

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Money will fix everything... only so long as it comes out of someone else's pocket and is put in democrap pockets...  Standard socialist lib crap and lies..


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## bripat9643 (Oct 6, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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ROFL!  You can't cite a single article supporting your idiotic and transparent lies.  

Post an example of someone being diagnosed as getting poisoned from the emissions from a coal fired power plant.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 6, 2017)

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Of course I can.  Any trained chimp with google can find this on the website of any major medical society.  What kind of lazy idiot depends on strangers on message boards to educate him?  I'm not asking you to take my word for it.


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## Billy_Bob (Oct 6, 2017)

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And yet you can not....  education lacking there chimp?

*You *made the claim... support it!  This is going to be just like every other argument... scream like a little bitch and run away..


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## bripat9643 (Oct 6, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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Then do it, turd.  Otherwise just admit that you're full of shit.  

Yes, you are asking us to take your word for it.  Do you think we're going to do your work for you?  That's an old trick of losers who don't have a clue.


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 6, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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No you can't you do the same stuff all the time, you make a claim and provide no credible links to back it up


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 6, 2017)

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No, I will not be spoonfeedimg you any links. Again, you dont have to take my word for it. Your cackling and dancing and prancing has no bearing on the facts.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 6, 2017)

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Somerimes I provide links, sometimes I don't . 

For instance, when a link is needed to prove a quote, or to relay an obscure fact or idea, I will provide a link.

When being ankle-nipped by people who are not honestly seeking the truth (else , in this case, they would have easily found the links themselves, if they cared to know the truth)... No , I do not provide links.


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## Billy_Bob (Oct 6, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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Thanks for proving my point...


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 6, 2017)

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Right, I'm a troll because I say the major medical societies warn of pollution causing illness.  gee, i wonder if anyone has studied it?  I wonder if anyone has compiled this science and presented suggestions for guidelines?  Nahhh, must just be a liberal conspiracy, spread by their paid trolls like me... right?


You go ahead and do your little dance.  Of the two of us, I don't think it's me that you're making to look bad.


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## bripat9643 (Oct 6, 2017)

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You aren't fooling anyone, turd.  You obviously can't backup your moronic claims.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Oct 6, 2017)

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Spot on!  It would be impossible for me to link you to the website of any major medical association, and specifically to what they say about smog.  You got me there!


man, I'm out.  you guys are way too smart for me.


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## bripat9643 (Oct 6, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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That's it:  run away with your tail between your legs.

YIP, YIP, YIP!


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## Old Rocks (Oct 6, 2017)

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*The reality is that you are a fucking lying cocksucker. *

https://www3.epa.gov/airnow/asthma-flyer.pdf

Air pollution can make asthma symptoms worse and trigger attacks. If you or your child has asthma, have you ever noticed symptoms get worse when the air is polluted? Air pollution can make it harder to breathe. It can also cause other symptoms, like coughing, wheezing, chest discomfort, and a burning feeling in the lungs. Two key air pollutants can affect asthma. One is ozone (found in smog). The other is particle pollution (found in haze, smoke, and dust). When ozone and particle pollution are in the air, adults and children with asthma are more likely to have symptoms.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 6, 2017)

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We shall see, asshole.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 6, 2017)

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And what has your vaunted GOP done with it? Not one major piece of legislation passed. Deep quarrels between the GOP House, the GOP Senate, and the GOP President. Quarrels to the point of being beyond sarcasm.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 6, 2017)

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Look, you shit for brains moron, no one with above a room temperature IQ would give any kind of credibility to what a lying asshole like you says.

https://www.grandcanyontrust.org/sites/default/files/pl_AMAmercuryReport.pdf

Mercury Exposure and Children’s Health

Mercury exposure, nutritional deficiencies and metabolic disruptions may affect learning in children

About coal mining impacts

Heavy Metals Toxicity and the Environment


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## jillian (Oct 6, 2017)

bripat9643 said:


> WINNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> EPA poised to formally repeal Clean Power Plan in major blow to Obama’s climate legacy​
> _The Environmental Protection Agency is expected to soon formally repeal the Clean Power Plan (CPP) in what would be one of the biggest blows yet to former President Barack Obama’s legacy on climate change.
> ...



morons... you hate this country so much it's beyond belief. you'll destroy everything just to try to wipe out the black guy's presidency.

thing is.... your orange loon will go down as the worst president in history. 

have fun, freaks.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 6, 2017)

Modern pollution laws came about because pollution caused major damage in Donora, Pennsylvania, damage that killed 20 people immediatly, and shortened many peoples lives.

http://explorepahistory.com/hmarker.php?markerId=1-A-14D

Folks in Pittsburgh, Johnstown, Connellsville and the other steel and mining towns of western Pennsylvania were used to smog. Smog meant that the mills were running and the coke ovens burning. Smog meant men were working and families fed. Sure, it could be a nuisance. It stunted the growth of crops and trees, soiled curtains and caused asthma and hacking coughs, but that was the price of progress and prosperity.





Smog victim on stretcher, Donora, PA, November 4, 1948.


No one was prepared for the black cloud that swallowed Donora, a Monongahela mill town, just a short drive south from 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


Pittsburgh, on Tuesday, October 26, 1948. By Friday, folks were crowding into local hospitals, but that didn't stop the Halloween parade that same evening, when costumed children appeared "like shadows moving through the gloom," or the high school football game the next day, when no passes were thrown because no one could see the ball. Seventeen people died on Saturday, and thousands were gasping for air. But the zinc works and steel mill stayed open, their stacks pouring an acrid gray smoke into the suffocating sky.





Patients In Oxygen-Tented Beds, Donora, Pennsylvania, November 3, 1948.


On Sunday morning the bosses at American Steel and Wire finally closed the plant. By the time fresh winds finally swept through the valley and blew away the smog on Monday, 7,000 people had become ill - nearly half the town's population. In all, twenty would die from acute fluoride poisoning and asphyxiation. In the days that followed, state and federal investigators descended on Donora to find out what - or who - was to blame. Donora became a national "scientific test tube" for the study of air pollution.


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## 9thIDdoc (Oct 6, 2017)

Good for the EPA! Nice to hear they've had an attack of sanity!


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## bripat9643 (Oct 7, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


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So where is your proof that a doctor has diagnosed anyone of getting sick from the pollution from a coal fired power plant?


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## bripat9643 (Oct 7, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> Modern pollution laws came about because pollution caused major damage in Donora, Pennsylvania, damage that killed 20 people immediatly, and shortened many peoples lives.
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That was 70 years ago, asshole.  I'm talking about since Obama was elected.  Trump is only going to repeal the regulations Obama tried to impose on us.


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## bripat9643 (Oct 7, 2017)

jillian said:


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Hating commies like Obama is the opposite of hating America.  His "Clean Power Plan" was designed to destroy America.  It would have tripled the cost of electricity in this country.


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## bripat9643 (Oct 7, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


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"Extrapolating."  None of these papers mention a single case of anyone getting sick from Mercury from a modern coal fired power plant.  They are all based on statistical projections from cases were the victim received doses hundreds of times what the EPA considers "safe."  

Only 5% of the mercury in put into our environment every year comes from artificial sources, and most of that comes from China.  The rest comes from natural sources.  Obama's economically disastrous regulations would have made no noticeable difference in the amount of Mercury in the environment we are exposed to.

You cited nothing but junk science.  All EPA claims are based on junk science.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 7, 2017)

Little cocksuck, the treasonous fat senile old orange clown will not be President all that long, and the pendulum will swing the other way. Then we will see the damage reversed, and sane laws and regulations put back into place, and, hopefully, a few of the people that have take advantage of the fat fuck's idiocy, spending a good deal of time in the gray bar hotel.


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## bripat9643 (Oct 7, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> Little cocksuck, the treasonous fat senile old orange clown will not be President all that long, and the pendulum will swing the other way. Then we will see the damage reversed, and sane laws and regulations put back into place, and, hopefully, a few of the people that have take advantage of the fat fuck's idiocy, spending a good deal of time in the gray bar hotel.


Yes, that is true.  Another lunatic will get elected by all the dumbasses in this country, and we will resume swirling down the toilet bowl.


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## Billy_Bob (Oct 7, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> Little cocksuck, the treasonous fat senile old orange clown will not be President all that long, and the pendulum will swing the other way. Then we will see the damage reversed, and sane laws and regulations put back into place, and, hopefully, a few of the people that have take advantage of the fat fuck's idiocy, spending a good deal of time in the gray bar hotel.


Any time someone calls out your crap as bull shit old fraud calls them a "cocksucker".  This is old frauds code word for "I don't know shit" and "all I got is correlative evidence that has not been verified" OR PROVED...

You see Old Fraud, every one of your articles shows correlation but does not prove causation, just like the AGW crap you spew you have nothing...

And then you ignore that 98% of all operating Coal fired plants (in the US and Canada) use current scrubbing technologies, which means the exhaust from those stacks is 99.998% particulate clean and water vapor...  Your lies and deceptions are so blatant that its to easy to call you a fool, but you do it over and over again, hoping for a different result... This behavior is called insanity...


----------



## skookerasbil (Oct 7, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> Little cocksuck, the treasonous fat senile old orange clown will not be President all that long, and the pendulum will swing the other way. Then we will see the damage reversed, and sane laws and regulations put back into place, and, hopefully, a few of the people that have take advantage of the fat fuck's idiocy, spending a good deal of time in the gray bar hotel.




Got news for you Ray......if the strategy is to continue to double down on the whole racist theme, he again cakewalks those old blue states again. White Americans are sick of that shit..........done. That's what '16 was all about. Shit with environmental regulations wont mean dick for the typical voter in Michigan or Ohio. Most Americans reject the fuck tradition approach and cow towing to minorities......its just the way it is. Some people think that unfair..........well......it is what it is. Maybe the political dynamic changes 25 years from now, but whites got sick of getting poked in the eye after 8 years of Obama. The DUMS didn't give a shit about them

Now as for me.........I cant applaud the whole identity politics strategy of the DUMS enough. Go.......go........double down on it. Every swinging white dick will be out to vote in 2020 and it wont be for the DUM candidate.

You'd think after the DUMS have gotten their clocks cleaned in the last 4 billion elections they'd change the strategy....................duh.. The smart DUMS are out there talking about this already........zero strategy to get back the middle of the road white American voter. Because the DUM party has been hijacked by the far left.........and Americans know socialism is ghey.


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## rightwinger (Oct 7, 2017)

Trumps EPA has nothing to do with protecting the environment


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 7, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Trumps EPA has nothing to do with protecting the environment



Neither did Obama's.


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## jillian (Oct 9, 2017)

9thIDdoc said:


> Good for the EPA! Nice to hear they've had an attack of sanity!



You're mean they're now bought and sold by rightwingnut plutocrats. 

Morons


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## jillian (Oct 9, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Trumps EPA has nothing to do with protecting the environment



No kidding


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## jillian (Oct 9, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Trumps EPA has nothing to do with protecting the environment
> ...



And yet another wing nut lie. 

Congrats dude. You people are simply screwed up hate filled loons who hate anything decent.


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## rightwinger (Oct 9, 2017)

Ha.......Ha.......Ha

We destroyed the environment just to fuck over Obama


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 9, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...




What you think this time will be any different? lol


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 9, 2017)

jillian said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



How does "limiting carbon emissions" protect the environment?
How does weakening our economy and making energy more expensive protect the environment?
How did turning that river orange protect the environment?


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Oct 9, 2017)

EPA plans to repeal major Obama-era climate rule

Freedom wins and the planet will be none the wiser.


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## Tax Man (Oct 9, 2017)

A genuine Rump deal. He needs to butter up his petrol butt buddies.


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## TheOldSchool (Oct 9, 2017)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> EPA plans to repeal major Obama-era climate rule
> 
> Freedom wins and the planet will be none the wiser.


The robot's not going to give you back your coal job, buddy.  Sorry


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Oct 9, 2017)

We will be dependent on fossil fuels for at least another 75 years.

The real solution to the alleged, unproven climate change problem is de-population, which supports my theory that the solution to all problems is war.  

Sadly, the crazy (or Muslim) jackass who shot up Las Vegas did more to curb emissions than the Clean Power Plan.


----------



## Fenton Lum (Oct 9, 2017)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> We will be dependent on fossil fuels for at least another 75 years.
> 
> The real solution to the alleged, unproven climate change problem is de-population, which supports my theory that the solution to all problems is war.
> 
> Sadly, the crazy (or Muslim) jackass who shot up Las Vegas did more to curb emissions than the Clean Power Plan.



Well don't forget abut Newt's moon colony, we've got that going for us as well.


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Oct 9, 2017)

None of you want to accept the Clean Power Plan for what it really was---an attempt to grind the U.S. economy to a crawl to allow the rest of the world to catch up.  Obama's job was to get in power and put on the brakes.  America last.

Cry in your pinko appletinis.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro (Oct 9, 2017)

Tax Man said:


> A genuine Rump deal. He needs to butter up his petrol butt buddies.



You guys cheered Obama for abusing executive authority and doing end runs around Congress and the Constitution to push stuff through via Executive Order.  Well, this is why you shouldn't support that.  Any EO can be repealed by any subsequent president at the stroke of a pen.  Use the proper channels and go through Congress and it will last longer, ie. ObamaCare.


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## Pogo (Oct 9, 2017)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> EPA plans to repeal major Obama-era climate rule
> 
> Freedom wins and the planet will be none the wiser.



So you're an advocate of Dirty Power are ya?

May I suggest Beijing.  And you won't need to wait --- it's already your kinda place.


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## longknife (Oct 9, 2017)

‘*War on coal is over’: EPA scraps Obama-era clean power plan *






The “war” started by Obozo and Shrillary. All sorts of jobs lost and towns nearly destroyed. Is this too late? Can all of that be resurrected?

_The Trump administration has put another nail in the coffin of former President Barack Obama’s climate change legacy by withdrawing from the 2015 Clean Power Plan intended to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. _

More @ ‘War on coal is over’: EPA scraps Obama-era clean power plan


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## The Irish Ram (Oct 9, 2017)

TheOldSchool said:


> Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:
> 
> 
> > EPA plans to repeal major Obama-era climate rule
> ...



Oh yes he is.  And our power plant is NOT going to close.  What you deaf and dumb dems don't understand is that we have standards to meet.  The UN wants our coal burned in Asia with NO standards to meet.  Burning our coal, here, is better for the environment than burning it in China has been.  
You need to embrace common sense again, and stop being a demobot...  Be *smarter *than Pelosi.


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## skookerasbil (Oct 9, 2017)

Here it is 2017 and we have people out there who still think the EPA is about environmental protection. F'ing yikes........


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## skookerasbil (Oct 9, 2017)

Renewable energy programs put more and more people into poverty which is EXACTLY what the DUM party wants. duh........California cant put enough people into the poor house fast enough with their renewable energy policy schemes. You stoopid people don't get it..........who wins when more people are thrown into poverty?

*http://www.nationalreview.com/article/421869/californias-energy-policies-poor-are-hit-hardest-robert-bryce*


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## ScienceRocks (Oct 9, 2017)

bear513 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...





Take a good look at what businesses do in China, India and all over the world that doesn't have these regulations. Even here they attempt to go around the rules and break the law. 

What do you think they will do. Duh.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 9, 2017)

ScienceRocks said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...



If 1,000 pages of regulations are good, 1,000,000 pages are better?


----------



## Muhammed (Oct 9, 2017)

ABikerSailor said:


> Yep, lets go ahead and get rid of all the regulations for clean water and air.
> 
> Gotta thin out the herd somehow, might as well do it making the rich richer and killing the environment.


The CPP has absolutely nothing to do with the clean air or clean water, jackass.


----------



## Wyatt earp (Oct 9, 2017)

ScienceRocks said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...




You see this thread Matthew?

Bill Maher blasts Dems: ‘Democrats don’t want to help people,’ and ‘it makes people hate us

.


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## xotoxi (Oct 9, 2017)

bripat9643 said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



This is interesting.

Donora, Pennsylvania - environmental, pollutants, history, industrial, human, health


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## xotoxi (Oct 9, 2017)

xotoxi said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



In reading more about Donora, PA, I learned that Stan Musial and both Ken Griffeys were from there.

Musial's dad died in the Donora Smog incident.


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## bripat9643 (Oct 9, 2017)

xotoxi said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...


Another picture taken in the 50s.   You haven't got anything taken after the Reagan administration.  Also, that still looks like fog.

Case closed.


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## xotoxi (Oct 9, 2017)

bripat9643 said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



Looks like fog...except for the soot on the car.

No interest in reading the short article in the link?


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## bripat9643 (Oct 9, 2017)

xotoxi said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > xotoxi said:
> ...



How is it relevant to 21st Century America?


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## Old Rocks (Oct 9, 2017)

bear513 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...


pi


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## Old Rocks (Oct 9, 2017)

bripat9643 said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


Well, if dolts like you get their way, we will see that again.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 9, 2017)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> None of you want to accept the Clean Power Plan for what it really was---an attempt to grind the U.S. economy to a crawl to allow the rest of the world to catch up.  Obama's job was to get in power and put on the brakes.  America last.
> 
> Cry in your pinko appletinis.


You fucking dumb asshole, both wind and solar are now produce electricity cheaper than any fossil fuel or nuclear. They are also cheaper to install. Once installed, they require no pipelines, rail lines, or mines to support them. And grid scale batteries are making them power 24/7.


----------



## TheOldSchool (Oct 9, 2017)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> We will be dependent on fossil fuels for at least another 75 years.



You're hoping we're not still relying on 19th century technologies for our energy in 75 years?  You 'Murica hating, gaystappo libtard


----------



## Muhammed (Oct 10, 2017)

Pogo said:


> Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:
> 
> 
> > EPA plans to repeal major Obama-era climate rule
> ...


CO2 does not cause smog.


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## skookerasbil (Oct 10, 2017)

Huge win for the poor.


----------



## gipper (Oct 10, 2017)

Pogo said:


> Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:
> 
> 
> > EPA plans to repeal major Obama-era climate rule
> ...


Clearly....should the EPA make this change, the left is likely to go even crazier.


----------



## Old Rocks (Oct 10, 2017)

Ten percent of all of the electricity generated in the U.S. in March came from wind and solar power, marking the first such milestone in U.S. history, according to a new U.S. Energy Information Administration report.

The EIA estimates that wind and solar farms likely generated 10 percent of America’s electricity in April as well, which would be another first, according to the report.

This year’s milestone shows that renewables are becoming a major source of electricity in the U.S. and can no longer be considered “alternative” energy, said Christopher Clack, CEO of the power grid modeling firm Vibrant Clean Energy and a former National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration researcher.

U.S. Reports a Major Milestone in Wind and Solar Power

Tesla CEO Elon Musk — whose company makes electric cars and has a new solar roof panel division — reminded more than 30 state governors at the National Governors Association meeting this weekend exactly how much real-estate is needed to make sure America can run totally on solar energy.

“If you wanted to power the entire United States with solar panels, it would take a fairly small corner of Nevada or Texas or Utah; you only need about 100 miles by 100 miles of solar panels to power the entire United States,” Musk said during his keynote conversation on Saturday at the event in Rhode Island. “The batteries you need to store the energy, so you have 24/7 power, is 1 mile by 1 mile. One square-mile.”

It’s “a little square on the U.S. map, and then there’s a little pixel inside there, and that’s the size of the battery park that you need to support that. Real tiny.”






Here's Elon Musk's Plan to Power the U.S. on Solar Energy | Inverse
*Considering that those panels could be on the tops of shopping malls, warehouses, and other buildings, not even necessary to cover land with those panels. *


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## Old Rocks (Oct 10, 2017)

The state with the most wind power is Texas. And they are putting in even more, with some communities going totally to renewable energy. The reason is simple, the kind of green that has pictures of Franklin on it. And they are putting in massive solar as well, for the same reason. Texas is like California, they take the lead, and others follow. So we have a very conservative state, and a very liberal state, both putting in massive amounts of wind and solar. Were we to put in transmission lines to the very windy states, and the same to the southwestern states for solar, we could convert the whole nation to 100% renewables in a decade.


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## gipper (Oct 10, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> Ten percent of all of the electricity generated in the U.S. in March came from wind and solar power, marking the first such milestone in U.S. history, according to a new U.S. Energy Information Administration report.
> 
> The EIA estimates that wind and solar farms likely generated 10 percent of America’s electricity in April as well, which would be another first, according to the report.
> 
> ...


If it is so easy, why did your beloved Obama not do it?


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## Old Rocks (Oct 10, 2017)

It would have been like the Interstate Highway Program that Eisenhower put through. The GOP was not going to let President Obama have anything like that. That is why the next time the pendulum swings their way, the Dems need to have a workable program for energy, for healthcare, already thought out and ready for legislation.


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## gipper (Oct 10, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> It would have been like the Interstate Highway Program that Eisenhower put through. The GOP was not going to let President Obama have anything like that. That is why the next time the pendulum swings their way, the Dems need to have a workable program for energy, for healthcare, already thought out and ready for legislation.


That is hilarious.

Obama doubles the national debt, yet spends little on infrastructure and alternative energy...but it is the Rs fault.

How does one get so dumb?


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## Pogo (Oct 10, 2017)

Muhammed said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:
> ...



I didn't even bring up CO2.  I responded to the thread title.

Ain't nuttin' you can do about dat.


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## badger2 (Oct 10, 2017)

The corksucking EPA psycopath, Pruitt, flaps his chimpanzee lips from Hazard, Kentucky? Go North for those compromised in connecting the dots: the Lake Erie algal bloom links to coal. We first show the link to UK and China, because it was cheap Australian coal that was burned in China to eventually have its particulates land on Montana. The link is Microcystis at Lake Erie:

UK-China / Coal / Microcystis
Flocculation of cyanobacterial cells using coal fly ash modified chitosan.  - PubMed - NCBI

Microcystin is the toxin. It links to the possibility that the water supply can exacerbate diabetes and Alzheimer's, though Bitch Pruitt is clamming up about that:

Microcystin / Diabetes / Glycogen Synthase Kinase
Microcystin-LR disrupts insulin signaling by hyperphosphorylating insulin receptor substrate 1 and glycogen synthase.  - PubMed - NCBI

GSK is precisely the link to Alzheimer's, and in the aluminosilicate hypothesis, it is the ethmoid sinus as point of origin. That is the same location for entry of influenza viruses. At Unexplained Mysteries, we intercepted the Lake Erie thread and posted what we have posted here. It was promptly removed so that many of the prisoners did not get to see the snapshot we attempted to smuggle into that concentration camp.


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## badger2 (Oct 10, 2017)

Note that a Yahoo search "Lake Erie algae bloom forum" brings up results for Unexplained Mysteries right away, though USMB does not come up right away, reminiscent of Mussolini's Italy.


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## badger2 (Oct 10, 2017)

26 Ap 2017 www. for " Experts Debate Lake Erie Fate at Way Library Forum"....'Karl Gebhardt, deputy director of water resources for the Ohio Environmental Protection Agency....'


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## Muhammed (Oct 10, 2017)

Pogo said:


> Muhammed said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...


The thread title is about CO2.


----------



## skookerasbil (Oct 10, 2017)

For the sake of the poor in this country, lets hope this retarded Clean Power Plan gets nuked by Trump. Only progressives can be just fine with having low income folks spending almost 10% of their income on energy. I mean..........how fucked up is that? Then again........the more people the DUMS knock into the poor house, the better they do at the voting booth so for them, the Clean Power Plan is a winner.


California Dem: Our Global Warming Plans Devastate The Poor

Clean Power Plan will hurt California’s most vulnerable – Orange County Register

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/421869/californias-energy-policies-poor-are-hit-hardest-robert-Bryce



Just for the next time that you hear a climate crusader asshole telling you renewables are cheaper than fossil fuels!!!


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## badger2 (Oct 10, 2017)

There are two choices with the ca ca toxin produced by algae: 

1.) Temperature Matters

2.) Temperature Does Not Matter

Adding parameters such as diabetes and Alzheimer's, it's like Russian roulette games with each individual genome. What is the value at the point of exchange? This question cannot be answered. 1.) and 2.) can be answered.


----------



## badger2 (Oct 10, 2017)

Is there any info on walleye Alzheimer's?

Walleye Toxin Extraction Process: 14 Jun 2017 Research on Lake Erie Algae Blooms Imperiled
Research On Lake Erie Algae Blooms Imperiled


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## badger2 (Oct 10, 2017)

The last report posted shows the groundwater connection. This is also the Alzheimer's GSK link to the Colorado Listeria-infected cantaloupe outbreak that was using irrigationn water from the river on the Jensen farm.

Listeria / Glycogen Synthase Kinase 3-Beta / Resveratrol
Resveratrol inhibits inflammation induced by heat-killed Listeria monocytogenes.  - PubMed - NCBI

Cyclopamine from Veratrum californicum produces birth defects in sheep (Cyclopian eye). The connectionn is here:

Veratrum californicum / Resveratrol


----------



## badger2 (Oct 10, 2017)

The EPA Bitch Pruitt does not have the stones to confront this thread.

We now link another bitch, Drosophila suzukii. The system we are developing for D. suzukii does not concern itself with pesticides, pheromones or vinegar-yeast traps, though the German system is much less labor-intensive than ours:

Max Planck-Gesellschaft
Leaf odor attracts Drosophila suzukii
'....They must be able to smell new odors and ignore smells that had been attractive in the past....beta-cyclocitral....'

Beta-Cyclocitral / Microcystis
Characteristic oxidation behavior of β-cyclocitral from the cyanobacterium Microcystis.  - PubMed - NCBI


----------



## badger2 (Oct 10, 2017)

The litigation actually began in April:

25 Ap 2017 Environmentalists Sue Government for Lake Erie Toxic Algae
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...groups-sue-us-epa-over-lake-eries-toxic-algae


----------



## badger2 (Oct 10, 2017)

3-Day "Do Not Drink" Order / 500,000 Residents
How satellite data led to a breakthrough for Lake Erie toxic algal blooms
'....affecting the human liver and can cause skin irritation....'

Making breakthourhgs in phosphorus chemistry, the diabetes-Alzheimer links remain elusive.


----------



## Billy_Bob (Oct 10, 2017)

Question for the idiot, badger2..

The US has been using scrubber technologies for over 20 years which remove particulates from coal fired plants emissions. The US emissions are not a problem (99.% clean) it is the emissions from plants who do not use those technologies.  So instead of beating off in public here why don't you go over there and let them watch you?

The left wing retards are really dense... they cant even use cognitive thought for a minuet to discern reality from fantasy...


----------



## Billy_Bob (Oct 10, 2017)

xotoxi said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...


This photo was taken in winter, after and inversion layer had trapped gases and particulates near the surface, for over a week. Nov 11, 1950..  You really should place your fabrications in context so that you can not be called out as being deceptive..


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## badger2 (Oct 10, 2017)

Post @110 forgets that Chinese (Australian) coal landing on Montana can't be scrubbed, which equates to free-floating farm phosphorus which (apparently) can't be scrubbed either. Scrubbed U.S. stacks, then, can't be used in this argument. The pathology lies in the EPA's schizophrenia.


----------



## HenryBHough (Oct 10, 2017)

And yet America's demand or electricity grows as liberals refuse to turn off their computers and park their electric limos.

Go figure.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 10, 2017)

badger2 said:


> The corksucking EPA psycopath, Pruitt, flaps his chimpanzee lips from Hazard, Kentucky? Go North for those compromised in connecting the dots: the Lake Erie algal bloom links to coal. We first show the link to UK and China, because it was cheap Australian coal that was burned in China to eventually have its particulates land on Montana. The link is Microcystis at Lake Erie:
> 
> UK-China / Coal / Microcystis
> Flocculation of cyanobacterial cells using coal fly ash modified chitosan.  - PubMed - NCBI
> ...



You're whining about the EPA because Australian coal burned by China is causing issues in Montana?

Were you born stupid?


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## Billy_Bob (Oct 10, 2017)

badger2 said:


> Post @110 forgets that Chinese (Australian) coal landing on Montana can't be scrubbed, which equates to free-floating farm phosphorus which (apparently) can't be scrubbed either. Scrubbed U.S. stacks, then, can't be used in this argument. The pathology lies in the EPA's schizophrenia.


What a jerk off...

I guess the CMDS site was a fake too... The one where we burnt our chemical munitions stockpile in Utah..  Those technologies were shared with the private sector in an effort to clean our air.. VX and other mustard agents etc were destroyed by burning and the water vapor going out the stack was 99.9999% pure.. I know because I WAS THERE in 1981 during the building and testing phase..
Deseret Chemical Depot - Wikipedia

Those same technologies are in use today in the US making Coal one of the cleanest fuels in use today.   But  continue with your BS..  Its amusing..


----------



## Billy_Bob (Oct 10, 2017)

badger2 said:


> The EPA Bitch Pruitt does not have the stones to confront this thread.
> 
> We now link another bitch, Drosophila suzukii. The system we are developing for D. suzukii does not concern itself with pesticides, pheromones or vinegar-yeast traps, though the German system is much less labor-intensive than ours:
> 
> ...



What a pile of loose correlations...  Where are your scientifically verified links that you are claiming?


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## xotoxi (Oct 10, 2017)

Billy_Bob said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



It was actually late October, 1948.

Yes, the inversion layer trapped gases and particulate which were produced by factories which had absolutely no incentive to decrease their production of pollution.  50 great Americans died.

We now have laws to prevent this.  If the laws are removed, this could happen again.


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## bripat9643 (Oct 10, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > xotoxi said:
> ...


Oh, you mean that's how it was when Obama got elected?  Repealing his shit is going to take us back to the 1950s?


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## Old Rocks (Oct 10, 2017)

Little fucked up cocksuck, you think that the treasonous fat senile old orange clown is going to stop at just the regulations that President Obama put in?


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## bripat9643 (Oct 10, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> Little fucked up cocksuck, you think that the treasonous fat senile old orange clown is going to stop at just the regulations that President Obama put in?


The ones Clinton imposed can go too without any noticable change to the environment.  The fact is that the regulations passed by the time Reagan was elected eliminated 95% of the problem.  Since then the EPA has just been piling on for the sake of power and keeping their jobs.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 10, 2017)

gipper said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > It would have been like the Interstate Highway Program that Eisenhower put through. The GOP was not going to let President Obama have anything like that. That is why the next time the pendulum swings their way, the Dems need to have a workable program for energy, for healthcare, already thought out and ready for legislation.
> ...


Just look in the mirror, you blitherin' idiot. President Obama inherited the makings of the Second Great Republican Depression. His actions prevented that, but at the cost of a major increase in the National Debt. As far as spending on alternative energy goes, you GOP did every thing that it could to prevent any progress there.

However, what was spent was enough, because of the fact that now alternative energy is cheaper than fossil fuels or nuclear. Cheaper to construct, cheaper by the kw produced.


----------



## xotoxi (Oct 11, 2017)

bripat9643 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



Not necessarily.  But it is moving in the wrong direction.


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## bripat9643 (Oct 11, 2017)

xotoxi said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...


No it isn't.  At best it's been halted.  The EPA is out of control.  It needs to be defanged.


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## badger2 (Oct 11, 2017)

#114 thinks Montana should cede anyway, though what EPA can't stop in Montana is can't stop in Ohio, The argument fails when it attempts to add stack-scrubbers. The schizoid part is EPA's flapping Kentucky chimp lips about what it can do, while what it gives with one hand it takes away with the other. Thus, Stupidity always gets precisely the reality it deserves. Yesterday we were successful in smuggling the  basic diabetes-Alzheimer's message to 15 prisoners who reside in the Toledo area.


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## badger2 (Oct 11, 2017)

Whining Billy-Bob post @116 asks where the science, apparently amnesia after only 6 messages. The science was begun in post @100. Billy-Bob, like the EPA, seems to require some serious pop quizzes and exams on the material presented in this thread.


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## badger2 (Oct 11, 2017)

7 Oct 2017 Ohio Mayor Asks Trump for Help Combating Lake Erie Algae
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...r-help-combating-lake-erie-algae?int=news-rec
'....a general mistrust....'

This is a condensed form for distribution:

6 Oct 2017 Beijing, China: Microcystin / GSK / Hyperphosphorylation / Insulin Signaling
Microcystin-LR disrupts insulin signaling by hyperphosphorylating insulin receptor substrate 1 and glycogen synthase.  - PubMed - NCBI

3 Oct 2017 Zhejiang, China: GSK / Alzheimer's
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.ogv/pubmed/28990074


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## badger2 (Oct 11, 2017)

If URL does not work, type in abstract number at Pubmed.


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## badger2 (Oct 11, 2017)

Note that it's hyperphosphorylation for both insulin and for Alzheimer's.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 11, 2017)

#123 thinks Obama's EPA regulated the Chinese coal burning power plants and then Trump ruined things.


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## badger2 (Oct 11, 2017)

"They're Good At What They Do" : The Glyphosate Connection

Jan 2017 Microcystis /  Glyphosate
Algal growth and utilization of phosphorus studied by combined mono-culture and co-culture experiments.  - PubMed - NCBI

Microcystis / Post-Mining Waters
Effect of postmining waters on cyanobacterial photosynthesis.  - PubMed - NCBI


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## skookerasbil (Oct 11, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> #123 thinks Obama's EPA regulated the Chinese coal burning power plants and then Trump ruined things.




HOLY MOTHER OF GOD................some of the thinking of these dumbasses..

I think before you get to post in here you need to pass some kind of a minimum competency test for knowledge in civics/world politics...........at least be able to display you have some kind of a clue.


----------



## skookerasbil (Oct 11, 2017)

dang.....does badger have anything coherent to say??

Dang this guy is all over the place...........makes Mamooth look like an organized thinker, which, or course, would take some doing!


----------



## badger2 (Oct 11, 2017)

You can take it slowly, one word at a time. It is in your mother tongue, no?


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## bripat9643 (Oct 11, 2017)

badger2 said:


> You can take it slowly, one word at a time. It is in your mother tongue, no?


Learn to speak English before you post in this forum.


----------



## badger2 (Oct 11, 2017)

"My English-speaking lucid unreason is not afraid of chaos."
(Antonin Artaud, Manifesto in Clear Language)


----------



## longknife (Oct 12, 2017)

*Rolling Back Obama EPA Rule Could Save $33 Billion*

But the Eco-Freaks will scream and moan that it would destroy the ecology.

_Reversing an Obama administration energy regulation will save energy companies $33 billion in compliance costs through 2030—costs that would have otherwise been borne by consumers, senior Trump administration officials said in providing details about scrapping the plan._

Read both sides @ Trump Rolls Back Obama EPA Regulation


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## badger2 (Oct 16, 2017)

Incorrigible punks on screenal space dope, scared shitless to address the objective material of the argument. Not surprised: they can't address the material, and are living proof that no one gets a command of their mother tongue.

Others, however, are learning behind their backs. The suit is 38 pages long.

Activist Asks Mayor to Join in Lake Erie Impairment Suit
www.thetoledoblade.com/local/2017/09/29/Activist-asks-mayor-to-join-in-Lake-Erie-impairment-suit.html


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## Old Rocks (Oct 16, 2017)

longknife said:


> *Rolling Back Obama EPA Rule Could Save $33 Billion*
> 
> But the Eco-Freaks will scream and moan that it would destroy the ecology.
> 
> ...


And how much in increased medical costs to the public from the pollution? The people pushing this should have their teeth kicked in.They are literally harming our children for their profit.


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## bripat9643 (Oct 16, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> longknife said:
> 
> 
> > *Rolling Back Obama EPA Rule Could Save $33 Billion*
> ...


Zero increased medical costs.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 16, 2017)

bripat9643 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > longknife said:
> ...


Fucked up little liar.

However, this is a temporary problem. When President Pence is voted out of office in 2020, these decisions will not only be reversed, there will be more stringent protections for the protection of the health of the citizens of this nation.


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 16, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...




Got to love the optimism knowing full well this will be bumped and you will be laughed at.


----------



## bripat9643 (Oct 16, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...




If it's a lie, then you should have no trouble producing evidence that pollution from coal plants made somoneill.   And by "evidence" I don't mean projections based on cases where someone reeived 10,000 times the dose someone leaving next door to a power plant would recieve.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 17, 2017)

ESTIMATING THE HEALTH IMPACTS OF COAL-FIRED POWER PLANTS RECEIVING PUBLIC INTERNATIONAL FINANCING Summary In addition to the environmental and human health harm caused by greenhouse gas emissions, coal-fired power plants emit massive amounts of toxic air pollutants that result in significant numbers of deaths and disease. We estimate that between roughly 6000 and 10,700 annual deaths from heart ailments, respiratory disease and lung cancer can be attributed to the 88 coalfired power plants and companies receiving public international financing. This range of estimated mortality reflects different assumptions regarding use of air pollution control technologies in plants for which this information was not obtainable. Air pollution from coal-fired power plants is also associated with other health outcomes, including infant deaths, asthma and other lung diseases. Estimates of the number of people experiencing these additional health outcomes were not made in this study, as the necessary data from the countries where the power plants are located were not available. This suggests that the deaths estimated here represent only a portion of a larger overall health burden related to air pollution from these power plants.

https://www.edf.org/sites/default/files/9553_coal-plants-health-impacts.pdf

*#1*


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## Old Rocks (Oct 17, 2017)

Why are coal-fired power plants a concern?

Coal is the largest energy source for generating electricity at U.S. power plants. There are approximately 1,200 coal-fired generators at 450 facilities in the United States. They generate about 44.6 percent of the country's electricity.

There are approximately 125 coal-fired power facilities in the Southwest. Texas generates more electricity from coal-fired power plants than any other state in the country.

Coal-fired power plants are among the country's greatest sources of pollution. They are the biggest industrial emitters of mercury and arsenic into the air. They emit 84 of the 187 hazardous air pollutants identified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as posing a threat to human health and the environment.

Coal-fired power plants also emit cadmium, chromium, dioxins, formaldehyde, furans, lead, nickel, and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons. They emit volatile organic compounds, including benzene, toluene, and xylene. Emissions include acid gases such as hydrogen chloride and hydrogen fluoride. Small amounts of radioactive materials such as radium, thorium, and uranium are also emitted.

Burning coal in power plants emits sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides. Sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides react with precipitation in the atmosphere to form acid rain. Burning coal also produces particulate matter.

Coal-fired and oil-fired power plants are also called fossil-fueled power plants. Oil-fired power plants generate only 1 percent of the country's electricity.

About 60 percent of sulfur dioxide emissions, 50 percent of mercury emissions, and 13 percent of nitrogen oxide emissions come from fossil-fueled power plants. Coal- and oil-fired power plants also account for about 60 percent of arsenic emissions, 30 percent of nickel emissions, and 20 percent of chromium emissions.

Coal-fired power plants account for 81 percent of the electric power industry's greenhouse gas emissions, which contribute to global warming and climate change. The most significant greenhouse gas emitted by coal-fired power plants is carbon dioxide. They also emit smaller amounts of methane and nitrous oxide.

The hazardous air emissions from coal-fired power plants cause serious human health impacts. Arsenic, benzene, cadmium, chromium compounds, TCDD dioxin, formaldehyde, and nickel compounds are listed as carcinogens in the Fourteenth Report on Carcinogens published by the National Toxicology Program. Furan and lead are listed as "reasonably anticipated to be human carcinogens" in the Fourteenth Report on Carcinogens.

Hazardous air pollutants emitted by coal-fired power plants can cause a wide range of health effects, including heart and lung diseases, such as asthma. Exposure to these pollutants can damage the brain, eyes, skin, and breathing passages. It can affect the kidneys, lungs, and nervous and respiratory systems. Exposure can also affect learning, memory, and behavior.

Mercury pollutes lakes, streams, and rivers, and accumulates in fish. Nearly all fish and shellfish contain mercury. People who eat large amounts of fish from mercury-contaminated lakes and rivers, including Native Americans, are at the greatest risk of exposure to mercury.

Tox Town - Coal-Fired Power Plants - Text Version

*#2*


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## Old Rocks (Oct 17, 2017)

*Physicians Point to Effect of Pollutants as EPA Takes Action on Sulfur Dioxide Emissions*






*Public Health Feature — June 2016*

_Tex Med_. 2016;112(6):37-42.

_By Joey Berlin
Reporter_

Cherelle Blazer, an environmental scientist, says she turned toward clean-air activism after a harrowing night more than eight years ago, when she feared poor North Texas air quality might take the lives of her husband and, indirectly, her unborn child.

Ms. Blazer, living with her family in the Fort Worth suburb of Mansfield, was eight months pregnant when she went to dinner at a family member's house with her children. Her husband did not join them because his asthma was giving him trouble. Her husband called her later that night and told her he was having extreme breathing problems. When Ms. Blazer and her children went back to the house, her husband's condition was worse, and he kept using his nebulizer.

He eventually lost consciousness, and an ambulance took him to the hospital. By the time Ms. Blazer got there, her husband was in an asthma-induced coma.

As he remained in the coma for days, Ms. Blazer went into premature labor. Amazingly, her husband came out of his coma on the same day she delivered a healthy baby.

Ms. Blazer says there's no doubt in her mind "living in the conditions that we do in North Texas contributed to my family being in that situation." She's now an organizing representative for the Sierra Club's Beyond Coal campaign.

"It's one thing to read … statistics," she said, "and it's another thing to experience the possibilities of what that means in everyday life."

Mindful of the devastating impact pollutants can have, Texas physicians have been clamoring for years for action to curb or eliminate the emissions of coal-fired power plants, pointing to studies and evidence those plants' congesting environmental output makes patient populations sicker and the number of emergency department visits greater.

Now, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is setting its sights on several of the epicenters of Texas' environmental battle. In February, EPA proposed designating various areas around the country as "nonattainment" regions because of unsafe levels of sulfur dioxide according to 2010 federal standards. Some of those nonattainment areas surrounded three coal-fired power plants in East Texas: the Luminant power facilities known as Big Brown, Martin Lake, and Monticello.

Those plants are among grandfathered "legacy" facilities that aren't subject to clean-air standards requiring lower emissions and newer technologies. As a result, the trio of plants have come under intense scrutiny over the years from clean-air advocates who blame them for downwind pollution in the Dallas-Fort Worth (DFW) metroplex.

Trying to Clear the Air

*#3  How many more do you want, stupid little shit of a finger guy?*


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## bripat9643 (Oct 17, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> ESTIMATING THE HEALTH IMPACTS OF COAL-FIRED POWER PLANTS RECEIVING PUBLIC INTERNATIONAL FINANCING Summary In addition to the environmental and human health harm caused by greenhouse gas emissions, coal-fired power plants emit massive amounts of toxic air pollutants that result in significant numbers of deaths and disease. We estimate that between roughly 6000 and 10,700 annual deaths from heart ailments, respiratory disease and lung cancer can be attributed to the 88 coalfired power plants and companies receiving public international financing. This range of estimated mortality reflects different assumptions regarding use of air pollution control technologies in plants for which this information was not obtainable. Air pollution from coal-fired power plants is also associated with other health outcomes, including infant deaths, asthma and other lung diseases. Estimates of the number of people experiencing these additional health outcomes were not made in this study, as the necessary data from the countries where the power plants are located were not available. This suggests that the deaths estimated here represent only a portion of a larger overall health burden related to air pollution from these power plants.
> 
> https://www.edf.org/sites/default/files/9553_coal-plants-health-impacts.pdf
> 
> *#1*



Their "estimate" is based on extrapolating what happens when someone recieves a high does, to someone recieving a low dose.  This is based on a theory that the toxicity is linearly related to the dose.  Unfortunately that theory is pure horseshit.  Many things are toxic at high doses and perfectly harmless or even benficial at low doses.  Consider Iodine.  That can kill you, but low doses of it are essential for your body to function properly.

In short, you're peddling bullshit, not science.


----------



## bripat9643 (Oct 17, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> *Physicians Point to Effect of Pollutants as EPA Takes Action on Sulfur Dioxide Emissions*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What a cute little anectdote.  However, that's not science.  It's bullshit.  For one thing your story doesn't even mention whatever the so-called pollutant was that was supposedly causing the problem.  If you look at any map showing the concentration of emissions from coal fired power plants, there is absolutely no correcelation with hospital admissions for any possibly related medical conditions.  None.

These claims about coal pollution causing health problems have zero hard evidence to support them.  They are all based on "correlations" and other bullshit that haven't been demonstrated scientifically.

This is just EPA propaganda.


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## Billy_Bob (Oct 17, 2017)

bripat9643 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > *Physicians Point to Effect of Pollutants as EPA Takes Action on Sulfur Dioxide Emissions*
> ...


IT's amazing isn't it.. very loose correlations and very wide areas of effect.. And yet not one shred of physical evidence linking it to anything...  Proof positive that Old Fraud doesn't read his links and has no cognitive reading skills..  EVERYTHING IN THAT STUDY IS HYPOTHETICAL AND DERIVED FROM MODELING USING LEVELS 100 to 1,000 times levels in real life at just 1000 feet from a power plant....

CONTEXT... the alarmists need to get some...


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## Billy_Bob (Oct 17, 2017)

badger2 said:


> Whining Billy-Bob post @116 asks where the science, apparently amnesia after only 6 messages. The science was begun in post @100. Billy-Bob, like the EPA, seems to require some serious pop quizzes and exams on the material presented in this thread.


LOL

You cant even properly quote a post and then you make shit up.... Just another Alarmist that is dumb as a damn rock.. Taking lessons from Old Crock?


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## skookerasbil (Oct 18, 2017)

Progressives supporting the CPP either..........


*1) Do not have the thought processing ability to connect the dots on worldwide carbon emission impacts

or

2) Are very aware of the cost impacts on the poor and middle class of America and the long stated goal of controlling energy as another way to seize power by turning more towards government assistance.
*


It is one or the other for anybody even half paying attention.


C'mon now....... controlling emissions on only one side of the world is beneficial to the environment??


*More than 1,000 new coal plants planned worldwide, figures show *
World Resources Institute identifies 1,200 coal plants in planning across 59 countries, with about three-quarters in China and India



*"Coal plants are the most polluting of all power stations and the World Resources Institute (WRI) identified 1,200 coal plants in planning across 59 countries, with about three-quarters in China and India. The capacity of the new plants add up to 1,400GW to global greenhouse gas emissions, the equivalent of adding another China – the world's biggest emitter. India is planning 455 new plants compared to 363 in China, which is seeing a slowdown in its coal investments after a vast building programme in the past decade."
*



*https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/nov/20/coal-plants-world-resources-institute*


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## skookerasbil (Oct 18, 2017)

*http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/analysis/as-u-s-shutters-coal-plants-china-and-japan-are-building-them/*


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## skookerasbil (Oct 18, 2017)

Anybody who falls for this "China is going green" propaganda stunt has the IQ of a small soap dish................

*http://www.theenergycollective.com/lauri-myllyvirta/2197106/new-coal-power-plants-china-carbon-bubble-waiting-burst*


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## bripat9643 (Oct 18, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:
> 
> 
> > None of you want to accept the Clean Power Plan for what it really was---an attempt to grind the U.S. economy to a crawl to allow the rest of the world to catch up.  Obama's job was to get in power and put on the brakes.  America last.
> ...


How can that be when wind and solar require a 100% backup from fossil fueled power plants or nuclear?

Wind and solar both require a massive investment in the power grid to get the power from where it's created to where it is consumed.  Coal fired power plants, on the other hand, can by built in the middle of the cities where the power is used.


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## bripat9643 (Oct 18, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> It would have been like the Interstate Highway Program that Eisenhower put through. The GOP was not going to let President Obama have anything like that. That is why the next time the pendulum swings their way, the Dems need to have a workable program for energy, for healthcare, already thought out and ready for legislation.


Obama was given a trillion to spend on infrastructure.  So where did the money go?


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## SSDD (Oct 18, 2017)

Several nations that had put great stock in wind and solar are going to end the subsides...watch wind and sola completely dry up in those nations when tax dollars are no longer paying for the ride...

German flagship business daily “Handelsblatt” reported … how Germany’s wind energy market is now *“threatening to implode”* and as a result *“thousands of jobs are at risk“*. José Luis Blanco, CEO of German wind energy giant Nordex, blames the market chaos on “_policymakers changing the rules_“. Subsidies have been getting cut back substantially. The problem, Blanco says, is that worldwide green energy subsidies are being capped and wind parks as a result are no longer looking profitable to investors. The Handelsblatt writes that “_things have never been this bad_“.

And in Australia...the land of green renewable energy wackos the number of people seeking food assistance due to the dent increased power bills due to renewables has put in their budgets...industrial nations being turned into third world countries by green renewable energy dreams...


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## Mr Natural (Oct 18, 2017)

Coal!

If it was good enough for the 19th century it’s good enough for today!

Make America Great Again!


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## jc456 (Oct 18, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> Ten percent of all of the electricity generated in the U.S. in March came from wind and solar power, marking the first such milestone in U.S. history, according to a new U.S. Energy Information Administration report.
> 
> The EIA estimates that wind and solar farms likely generated 10 percent of America’s electricity in April as well, which would be another first, according to the report.
> 
> ...


go build a dome and live under it.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 18, 2017)

*U.S. electric generating capacity increase in 2016 was largest net change since 2011*




*Source: *U.S. Energy Information Administration, _Electric Power Annual_ and _Preliminary Monthly Electric Generator Inventory_
More than 27 gigawatts (GW) of electricity generating capacity was added to the U.S. power grid during 2016, the largest amount of added capacity since 2012. These additions more than offset the retirement of roughly 12 GW of capacity, resulting in a net capacity gain of nearly 15 GW, the largest change since 2011. These net additions follow a 4 GW net capacity decrease in 2015—the largest net drop in capacity recorded in the United States.

U.S. electric generating capacity increase in 2016 was largest net change since 2011 - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

*Much coal retired since 2012, no new coal since 2014. Yes, the subsidies could end today, and the turbines and solar installations would continue. End the subsidies for coal, and the mines will close tomorrow. *


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## bripat9643 (Oct 18, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...


What utter horseshit.  The recovery was underway before Obama ascended the throne.  The only thing he prevented is a quick and strong recovery.  We would have had much more revenue and less debt if Obama had done nothing.  All he did is line the pockets of his public employee union allies.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 18, 2017)

Financial crisis of 2007–2008 - Wikipedia

*Hey Pattycake, are you and Silly Billy siblings? For you both like to pull stinky 'facts' out of your ample asses.*


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 18, 2017)

Mr Clean said:


> Coal!
> 
> If it was good enough for the 19th century it’s good enough for today!
> 
> Make America Great Again!



Windmills, worked in the 1500s, work today. Kind of. Sometimes.


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## Chuz Life (Oct 18, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:
> 
> 
> > None of you want to accept the Clean Power Plan for what it really was---an attempt to grind the U.S. economy to a crawl to allow the rest of the world to catch up.  Obama's job was to get in power and put on the brakes.  America last.
> ...



The lead, acids, rare earth materials, petroleum for the plastics, copper for the cables and wiring, all the transistors, diodes and other electrical components, the transport of the materials to the site, the actual construction and manufacturing of the solar panels turbines etc. . . 

What is the fucking carbon footprint for all of that?

Let's add it all up. 

Shall we?


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## bripat9643 (Oct 18, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> Financial crisis of 2007–2008 - Wikipedia
> 
> *Hey Pattycake, are you and Silly Billy siblings? For you both like to pull stinky 'facts' out of your ample asses.*


You posted a chart with no explanation of what the squiggles represent.

You proved nothing.  Here's the proof that the recovery began before Obummer ascended the throne:


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## Old Rocks (Oct 18, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > Coal!
> ...


*Idiot.*

US wind generation reached 5.5% of the grid in 2016

*US wind generation reached 5.5% of the grid in 2016*
*5 Heartland states now more than 20% wind-powered*
March 6, 2017

WASHINGTON, D.C. — Iowa, South Dakota, Kansas, Oklahoma and North Dakota all sourced more than 20 percent of their electricity generation from wind power during 2016, according to new data from the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA). It shows wind supplied over 5.5 percent of electricity nationwide, up from 4.7 percent in 2015.

With 99 percent of wind turbines located in rural areas, wind power’s steady growth as a share of the nation’s electricity supply has been accompanied by a surge of investment in rural America. The industry invested over $13.8 billion in new turbines last year, according to the American Wind Energy Association (AWEA), in addition to operating a fleet now over 52,000 turbines.

“Wind is now cheaply and reliably supplying more than 20 percent of the electricity in five states and is a testament to American leadership and innovation,” said Tom Kiernan, AWEA CEO. “For these states, and across America, wind is welcome because it means jobs, investment, and a better tomorrow for rural communities.”


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## Old Rocks (Oct 18, 2017)

Chuz Life said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:
> ...


Your are Goddamned right. Let's add it up, and then compare it to the fuels used in mining the coal, and transporting that coal. Or the amount of CO2 created in creating the steel for the natural gas pipelines, the CO2 created in transporting those pipe, and creating the pipeline. Coal, when burned creates 4.4 tons of CO2 for every 1.2 tons of coal burned. So you want to compare the CO2 created in manufacturing solar panels compared to the CO2 created in using coal and natural gas? God, you are fucking stupid. You lose very big time.


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## Chuz Life (Oct 18, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> Chuz Life said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...




Let's do it. 

Show me the numbers.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 18, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Mr Clean said:
> ...



*US wind generation reached 5.5% of the grid in 2016
*
That is awesome!

What's the current installed wind capacity?


----------



## bripat9643 (Oct 18, 2017)

bripat9643 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > Financial crisis of 2007–2008 - Wikipedia
> ...


Notice that Rocks in the Head doesn't want to address this chart.  None of the Obama cock sucking snowflakes do.


----------



## gipper (Oct 18, 2017)

bripat9643 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...


It is utter bullshit but many on the Left believe that Obama saved us from a second Great Depression, so his failure to bring the economy back and doubling the national debt, is forgiven.  This is what the DNC media has proclaimed for years, and dumb asses like Old Crotch believes whatever the DNC media tells him.

The power over simple minds, by the DNC media, should not be underestimated.


----------



## Old Rocks (Oct 18, 2017)

Chuz Life said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:
> ...


*Absolutely!*

How much CO2 does one solar panel create?

*How much CO2 does one solar panel create?*
*Yes, it's true that making solar panels creates carbon dioxide, but over the life of a solar installation it produces on average of 30x less CO2 than coal power.*
KARL BURKART
July 17, 2010, 5:32 p.m.
223

2





Photo: EnviroThink
Whenever I sing the praises of solar PV as a means to hugely reduce U.S. carbon emissions _while_ strengthening the security of the grid, I get people complaining that I'm not disclosing the carbon impacts of solar panel production.

*So let's get this straight.. solar panels are at least 20x better on the climate than coal, kWh for kWh.* I say _at least_ because the most often cited report is by Danish utility Vattenfall from 1999. It looks at only 3 countries -- Japan, Sweden and Finland -- all of which are fairly dark and dreary, and it does not account for recent advances in PV production (new solar panels are significantly more efficient).


Based on that study, solar PV works out to about 50g of CO2 per kWh compared to coal's 975g of CO2 per kWh, or about 20x "cleaner."






Coal power plants in the U.S. are considerably less regulated (and therefore less efficient) than their European counterparts, making them more carbon-intensive. And the U.S. has much greater solar access than Japan or Sweden, making solar PV less carbon-intensive. 

*Not that you would ever look this up for yourself, or even bother to read the rest of the link. You will work hard to preserve your willful ignorance.*


----------



## Wyatt earp (Oct 18, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Mr Clean said:
> ...




What's next old rocks , is Musk going to eliminate automation and robotics so you can claim it takes more workers to build a battery car compared to an ICE car?


----------



## Old Rocks (Oct 18, 2017)

bear513 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


And what does this have to do with the amount of CO2 involved in creating a solar panel? Why should Musk eliminate automation? The Tesla using American built batteries, has the highest amount of American made components, over 90%, as compared to the runner up, a Ford F-150, at 75%. No, nobody has room for people who only know how to work with their hands and back. You have to know something if you want a middle class paying job. There are 6 million jobs unfilled in the trades in this nation. Many of of those jobs pay over 100 K a year after a few years.


----------



## Wyatt earp (Oct 18, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...




This is to funny, what you forgot about how coal mine jobs are down but production of coal is up?

Two you ever see how much telsa is paying workers for his cars, I have and posted it before...not union wages pal, just got to the job boards.


----------



## Billy_Bob (Oct 18, 2017)

skookerasbil said:


> Progressives supporting the CPP either..........
> 
> 
> *1) Do not have the thought processing ability to connect the dots on worldwide carbon emission impacts
> ...



And if output scrubbing technologies are used they will be cleaner than human farting.. It must suck to be an alarmist with facts about scrubbing technologies that lay their hyperbole claims waste.


----------



## Billy_Bob (Oct 18, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Considering just 16-17% is on line and producing that would make it about an 83% unusable rate at any given time.. I don't know of any business that would call an 83% failure rate acceptable..


----------



## polarbear (Oct 18, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> Chuz Life said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...


Aside from "saving the planet" that setup you posted doesn't do much else. These 8 panels will generate on average ~ 1 dollar`s worth of power per day. And at what cost? They won`t say, none of them...they only bait you with "how much" you are "saving"...which in turn factors in all the money the tax payers have to pitch in for subsidies.
18 panels of the same type produce in the real world (as opposed to advertisement brochures) only 20 Kw hours per day....*maximum * on clear sky days





So unless you don`t use any power at night you better be stingy with the consumption else there is nothing available to charge the batteries.
The whole scheme reminds me of "Used cars" when "Rudy Russo sells a Centurion


----------



## Billy_Bob (Oct 18, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> Financial crisis of 2007–2008 - Wikipedia
> 
> *Hey Pattycake, are you and Silly Billy siblings? For you both like to pull stinky 'facts' out of your ample asses.*


I see you pulled some more made up crap from Wiki.. Again...Got to love those article that anyone can log into and make changes...  real factual...  speaking of Facts, where are yours?


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## Old Rocks (Oct 19, 2017)

A


polarbear said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > Chuz Life said:
> ...


5 kw system for $7500, enough for the house and an EV. ADD a Powerwall 2, and you have a complete system.

Grid tie Solar Power Systems for your home - Grid-tie Home Solar Panel     Systems


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## polarbear (Oct 19, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> A
> 
> 
> polarbear said:
> ...


Laughable if it were not so appalling how these charlatans mislead the suckers they target.
For 7500 $ all you will get is about 5 KwHrs of power on a normal day...which costs not even 50 cents in most places. At that rate it would take about 40 years to pay for itself and during that time you better not plan to charge an EV with the iddy-bit of "power" you get for $ 7500 that are supposed to supply the house.
No wonder they keep pushing a grid-tie. It`s not that you would have any "excess power" to spare to feed into the grid...it`s because they don`t want the idiots who fell for it noticing that Mickey-Mouse system to "beep out" when you plug in your toaster or fry something on the stove and the grid makes up for what the power inverter can`t get from the solar panels.
It wont even be able to compete with a donkey wheel


----------



## Old Rocks (Oct 19, 2017)

polarbear said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > A
> ...


Now that is about one dumb comment, Polar. 5 kw worth of panels. On a summer day, that would be about 30 kw/hr of juice. On a winters day, about 15 kw/hr. Add a battery, and you have a reserve of 14 kw/hr. That is a grid tie system, so you can use power off the grid when you need extra power. And your extra power turns your meter backwards. 

Solar is not only here, it is here to stay, and will become increasingly popular as the prices continue to go down, and the price for storage goes down.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 19, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> polarbear said:
> 
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> > Old Rocks said:
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*On a summer day, that would be about 30 kw/hr of juice. On a winters day, about 15 kw/hr.
*
_Using the U.S, average for system size at 5 kW (5000 watts), solar panel cost will range from *$10,045 to $13,475*  (after tax credits).

2017 Average Cost of Solar Panels in the U.S. | EnergySage
_
At $0.12 per kw/hr, that's about $18 a week. Doesn't seem very economical.


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## polarbear (Oct 19, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> polarbear said:
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> > Old Rocks said:
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You know who is the dummy here? It`s the one who figures that a PV panel *RATED *at 325 Watts will actually *deliver* 325 Watts while the sun is out. 
An array *10 times the size *of what  you say can deliver 15 Kwhrs only delivers between 5 and 20 (MAXIMUM) Kwhrs per day:




But what you said is even dumber, you said:
_5 kw worth of panels. On a summer day, that would be about *30 kw/hr *of juice. On a winters day, about 15 kw/hr. Add a battery, and you have a reserve of 14 kw/hr._
How can 5 KW become 30 KW per hour? Even a Kindergarten kid knows there are only 60 minutes in 1 hour not the 360 minutes you need to get 30 Kwatts out of 5 Kw in 1 hour.
5 KW for 1 hour = 5 KWhours not 30 or 30KW/hr...shit you don`t even know the most basic stuff and want to argue with me about power generation!
And not to mention "add 1 battery" and you got a 14 Kw "per hour" reserve. 
Do you have any idea what kind of a battery bank it would take to give you 14 Kilowatts for a whole hour?
I had a whole rack full of 100 ampere hour batteries and the inverter would beep out with a 1 KVA load in about 70 minutesor less. 
This is a 13 KVA Cat Diesel generator:




But at Cat the engineers must be stupid, because you say you can do all of that with just one battery for a whole hour


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## Old Rocks (Oct 19, 2017)

Fuck, I am arguing with a cretin. 5 kw of panels puts out a maximum of 5 kw/hr per hour. At my present latitude, the max for that would be about 30 kw/hr per day, summer, 15 kw/hr per day, winter. Show me where I state 30 kw/hr per hour? 

[Now that is about one dumb comment, Polar. 5 kw worth of panels. *On a summer day, that would be about 30 kw/hr of juice.* On a winters day, about 15 kw/hr. Add a battery, and you have a reserve of 14 kw/hr. That is a grid tie system, so you can use power off the grid when you need extra power. And your extra power turns your meter backwards.

Solar is not only here, it is here to stay, and will become increasingly popular as the prices continue to go down, and the price for storage goes down.]


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## Old Rocks (Oct 19, 2017)

polarbear said:


> Old Rocks said:
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Now where did I say 14 kw/hr in one hour? Crap.   And the battery bank for 14 kw/hrs is right here;

*But Tesla's Powerwall 2.0, which will cost $5,500, comes with the inverter included. Musk said it can store 13.5 kWh of energy and provide 5 kWh of continuous power, but will improve to 7 kWh at peak. This means that the Powerwall 2.0 has twice the energy and twice the storage as the previous 6.4 kWh Powerwall.*




Tesla


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## skookerasbil (Oct 21, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


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If solar is so popular and so cheap, then why is it projected by the Obama EIA in 2016 to be only providing about 5% ( maximum btw ) of our electricity 35 years from now??

*5%*

*http://naturalgasnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/eia-aeo2014-forecast-512x384.png*


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## skookerasbil (Oct 21, 2017)

*Fakery Alert
*
Progressives w0w us with all this total fakery on the cost of solar and THEN fail to tell you that your electricity rates will *double *(  just as they did in Germany s0ns !!!)



The reality is, the warmer contingent has the political IQ of a bunch of small soap dishes. They think the cause is noble...........because they are suckers...........


*"Knowing the importance of the “incentives,” the solar industry has now become a major campaign donor, providing political pressure and money to candidates, who will bring on more mandates, subsidies, and tax credits. Those candidates are generally Democrats, as one of the key differences between the two parties is that Democrats tend to support government involvement."

"The answers can be found in SPUS, which addresses the policy, regulatory, and consumer protection issues that have manifested themselves through the rapid rise of solar power and deals with many more elements than covered here. It concludes: “Solar is an important part of our energy future, but there must be forethought, taking into account future costs, jobs, energy reliability, and the overall energy infrastructure already in place. This technology must come online with the needs of the taxpayer, consumer and ratepayer in mind instead of giving the solar industry priority."


*
Non-suckers  need to read this.......the real world on solar without the fakery *>> Solar power propaganda vs. the real world

*


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## Old Rocks (Oct 22, 2017)

On Twitter, he summed it up in one chart, first spotted by Mother Jones. It compares the IEA's predictions about solar energy adoption (measured in gigawatts of capacity added annually) and historic data about solar energy adoption since 2002:

View image on Twitter





 Follow


AukeHoekstra @AukeHoekstra

I made a graph showing the historic track record of the IEA in predicting solar: reality steeply increasing but IEA is having none of it.


Every year, the organization assumes that solar's growth rate will be linear, rather than increasing exponentially as it largely has for over a decade.

As the Guardian reported in March, the amount of new solar power installed worldwide in 2016 increased by about 50%, reaching 76 gigawatts. China and US spearheaded the surge in solar — both countries nearly doubled the amount of PV panels they added in 2015. 

One chart shows how solar energy growth is skyrocketing compared to predictions

*Everyone's projections of the amount of solar that is being install were way too conservative, too conservative to the point that the actual installed was over 4000% of what the agency predicted only two years prior. Solar and wind are kicking ass, and coal is dying a well deserved death. Natural gas will follow suit in my lifetime.*


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## polarbear (Oct 22, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


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You are starting to sound like H.Clinton "where did I say 14 kw/h per hour?
You said it again..: 14 kw */* h and still have no idea what kind of nonsense that is.
I`ll run it by you like it would have to be done with a child:
If you earn $ 20 per hour it is expressed as $ 20 / hr
If a car does 100 km per hour it is expressed as 100 km / hr
So wtf is 14 kw / h ?
You just don`t get it do you ?
1 KW = 1000 x Volts x Amperes = *POWER
Power x Time =  Work, as in 1 watt x 1 second = 1 Joule
NOT Watts / time which is what you keep on saying :*
_*And the battery bank for 14 kw/hrs is right here;*_
_*Now that is about one dumb comment, Polar. 5 kw worth of panels. On a summer day, that would be about 30 kw/hr of juice. On a winters day, about 15 kw/hr. Add a battery, and you have a reserve of 14 kw/hr.*_
Like I told you earlier if you have no idea what a watt, a KW or a KW hour is you sure as shit don`t have a clue what it takes to produce 30 KWhrs worth of electrical energy...
Explain what 30 kw / hr "juice" is. Is "juice"  or Kilowatts per hour some new energy unit that only "people who believe in science" like AGW know of and which is being "denied" by the Oil Lobby ?
And that 14 *Kilowatt per hour *battery you keep talking about, I would like to see what it looks like.





It`s totally obvious that in your "science" a Kilowatt is not a power unit but somehow morphed into a work unit after they legalized Marijuana where you live.


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## polarbear (Oct 22, 2017)

View attachment 156027


polarbear said:


> Old Rocks said:
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Old Rocks said:


> Fuck, I am arguing with a cretin. 5 kw of panels puts out a maximum of 5 kw/hr per hour. At my present latitude, the max for that would be about 30 kw/hr per day, summer, 15 kw/hr per day, winter. Show me where I state 30 kw/hr per hour?
> 
> [Now that is about one dumb comment, Polar. 5 kw worth of panels. *On a summer day, that would be about 30 kw/hr of juice.* On a winters day, about 15 kw/hr. Add a battery, and you have a reserve of 14 kw/hr. That is a grid tie system, so you can use power off the grid when you need extra power. And your extra power turns your meter backwards.
> 
> Solar is not only here, it is here to stay, and will become increasingly popular as the prices continue to go down, and the price for storage goes down.]



This is how solar panels REALLY work:


 
The only thing suckers like you see is the "$avings" that`s being dangled to fool you into believing that a system that takes ~ 40 years to pay for itself is a "saving" when in reality you only "save" less than a buck per day on your hydro bill in the most expensive locations.


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## Billy_Bob (Oct 22, 2017)

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Give it up...

Old Fraud doesn't know how to use Ohm's law to figure out power rates, consumption rates and amperage rates.

I've tried to explain this to him and he still spews a whole lot of crap.


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## polarbear (Oct 22, 2017)

Billy_Bob said:


> polarbear said:
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The thing is that people like him twist it into a "win" unless you debunk their nonsense.




Like in the other thread where he figures Australia`s problems are going to be solved by adding a Tesla battery to their grid. And that`s coming from a millwright...so he says.
I am beginning to think I have been arguing physics with "Red Green"


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## badger2 (Oct 23, 2017)

To reveal the pathology of the EPA and crucify BillyBob's deliriumj about making things up (post #171), it will require some work, which we are not afraid of, and the reader-prisoner afraid of searching the net rather than clicking on a pre-prepared URL to feed it from the high-chair is just such pathology that will be left behind.

The first schizoid maneuver we notice is here:

1.) Environmentalists Sue EPA to Designate Ohio's Portion of Lake Erie 'Impaired'...."Ohio EPA Director Craig Butler told cleveland.com in May that the impaired waters designation is "immaterial." Environmentalists disagree. The lawsuit filed Tuesday says 'Listing waters as impaired is an important first step in addressing pollution" as it forces officials to develop a plan to restore the body of water. Without the impairment designation, Ohio is likely to continue relying on unenforceable, voluntary measures to reduce phosphorus pollution that won't be enough to fix the problem.' "

But the EPA is counting on such maneuvers, whilst NASA and Cleveland State University go fascist with their voyeurism. We note the copyright fascism and opportunism in particular as it relates to the drone photos of the problem. Yes, the delirium is that NASA, also relying on other worlds uninhabited, also relies on the "immaterialism" of apathy from the prisoners of the Great Lakes region who will tend to take what they get. Otherwise, the juridical machine can save their rumps from irresponsibility and sloth.

Yet, better a street-sweeper than a judge, because the people can end up knowing more than the judge. To reveal the trist, we quote from Fundamentals of Electric Circuits, eds. Charles K. Alexander and Matthew N.O. Sadiku, McGraw-Hill International Edition:

'About the Authors.


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## badger2 (Oct 23, 2017)

'Charles K. Alexander is a professor of electrical and computer engineering in the Fenn College of Engineering at Cleveland State University, Cleveland, Ohio. He is also the Director of The Center for Research in Electronics and Aerospace Technology (CREATE). From 2002 until 2006 he was Dean of the Fenn College of Engineering. From 2004 until 2007, he was Director of Ohio ICE, a research center in instrumentation, controls, electronics, and sensors (a coalition of CSU, Case, the University of Akron, and a number of Ohio industries).
....
Dr. Alexander has been a consultant to 23 companies and governmental organizations, including the Air Force and Navy and several law firms. He has received over $85 million in research and development funds for projects ranging from solar energy to software engineering. He has authored 40 publications, including a workbook and a videotape lecture series, and is coauthor of Fundamentals of Electric Circuits, Problem Solving Made Almost Easy, and the fifth edition of the Standard Handbook of Electronic Engineering, with McGraw-Hill.'

So that we can expose the fascism appropriately by linking it to Tecumseh's excerpt (forthcoming), we note that on the back cover of this book we are quoting from is the statement: "This book cannot be re-exported from the country to which it is sold by McGraw-Hill. The International Edition is not available in North America."


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## badger2 (Oct 23, 2017)

We are so very pleased to have made a mistake! Thus, Lee Harvey Oswald's time anywhere near the U.S. Navy at New Orleans does link to Lake Erie after all, and our post from the smuggled book made it to the EPA thread!

www. for Private Planes and NASA Drone Help Researchers Battle Lake Erie Algae Bloom


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## badger2 (Oct 23, 2017)

From the smuggled Fundamentals of Electric Circuits, International Edition:

'p. 103.  By inspection, write the mesh-current equations for the circuit in Figure 3.29.
....
Preface. Knowledge Capturing Integrated Design Environment for Circuits (KCIDE for Circuits). This software, developed at Cleveland State University and funded by NASA, is designed to help the student work through a circuits problem in an organized manner using the six-step-problem-solving methodology in the text.'

This shows the CSU-NASA link to mesh-current, because loop-current is another name for mesh-current, and is the link to the Lake Erie algae bloom:

Mississippi River Plume / Loop Current / Florida State and Louisiana Universities Marine Consortium
Mississippi River Plume Enriches Microbial Diversity in the Northern Gulf of Mexico.  - PubMed - NCBI
'....all the way out to the Deepwater Horizon wellhead....'


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## badger2 (Oct 23, 2017)

For post #216 (this thread), we note that the clickable website in that report indeed links to the copyright fascism of Cleveland State University funded by NASA. It was by serendipity that we came upon the smuggled International Edition from which we have quoted.


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## badger2 (Oct 23, 2017)

In his mid-forties, Tecumseh was then in the prime of life.....typically unostentatious ("very plain") and "stout built" (perhaps meaning strongly built), with a  "noble set of features and an admirable eye," and noted that he was always accompanied by six important chiefs "who never went before him."
(Sugden, Tecumseh, p. 283)


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## badger2 (Oct 23, 2017)

'Intelligence always comes after. It's best when it does, and only when it does.'
(Deleuze and Guattari)

What is at stake in the Lake Erie algae bloom are important questions that are not being answered. They don't have to be, as long as the producers of reports are the only ones who have the technology to produce those reports. The report below is a clone of this technology, though it does not answer important questions such as the algal toxin sequestered on surfaces (throughout the winter [italics]). Perhaps the Toledo mayor, EPA, and NASA are waiting until the prisoners get amnesia as winter closes in? As far as is known, there are no reports that address this question about microcystin, the toxin, though microcystin accumulation mirrors the argument in this text:

Detroit News 21 Oct 2017 Column:  How to Fight Lake Erie Algae Blooms
www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/2017/10/21/lake-erie-algae-blooms-adams/106892960/


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## badger2 (Oct 23, 2017)

There are four current medical links between Lake Erie's Microcystis toxic algae and Alzheimer's:

Metal dyshomeostasis and inflammation in Alzheimer's and Parkinson's diseases: possible impact of environmental exposures.  - PubMed - NCBI

A proteomic analysis of MCLR-induced neurotoxicity: implications for Alzheimer's disease.  - PubMed - NCBI

Microcystin congener- and concentration-dependent induction of murine neuron apoptosis and neurite degeneration.  - PubMed - NCBI

Peptidyl-prolyl isomerase 1 regulates protein phosphatase 2A-mediated topographic phosphorylation of neurofilament proteins.  - PubMed - NCBI


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## badger2 (Oct 23, 2017)

One of the most important Microcystis areas in the world is South Africa, and cyanobacterial hyperscum crust report in reference #13 has been scrubbed, a report that would have linked to the toxin being sequestered on surfaces and the biodegradation of the toxin:

Microcystin
Microcystin - Wikipedia


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## badger2 (Oct 23, 2017)

Patients at Lake Erie can be monitored for susceptibility to Alzheimer's:

'Proteins belonging to the heat shock protein (HSP) family have been useful as general indicators of stress (Bradley et al 1998). However, their low specificity makes them less useful for indicating the source of the stress. Identifying protein markers for human disease is an area of large interest and potential. As an example, by combining information on the levels of three proteins in the cerebrospinal fluid (T-tau, Abeta42, and P-tau181), it is possible to predict with good sensitivity and accuracy if a patient will develop Alzheimer's disease within the next few years (Hansson et al 2006).'
(Genomics in Regulatory Ecotoxicology: Applications and Challenges, [2008] p. 39)


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## badger2 (Oct 23, 2017)

Because of such things as the aluminosilicate hypothesis of Alzheimer's (origin at the ethmoid sinus), the efficacy and safety of this Chinese method against Microcystis looks promising though can be questioned:

Sept 2017 Hangzhou-Shanghai, Prevention of Cyanobacterial Blooms Using Nanosilica: A Biomineralization-Inspired Strategy
pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/acs.est.7b02985


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## deanrd (Oct 23, 2017)

bripat9643 said:


> WINNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> EPA poised to formally repeal Clean Power Plan in major blow to Obama’s climate legacy​
> _The Environmental Protection Agency is expected to soon formally repeal the Clean Power Plan (CPP) in what would be one of the biggest blows yet to former President Barack Obama’s legacy on climate change.
> ...


Republicans believe lead is a children's vitamin.


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## otto105 (Oct 23, 2017)

bripat9643 said:


> WINNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> EPA poised to formally repeal Clean Power Plan in major blow to Obama’s climate legacy​
> _The Environmental Protection Agency is expected to soon formally repeal the Clean Power Plan (CPP) in what would be one of the biggest blows yet to former President Barack Obama’s legacy on climate change.
> ...



Winning the campaign issue for dirty air, contaminated water and global climate change ignorant denial...


I'm sure that won't hurt in the coming 2018 elections or with generations of young people who have to live with the impacts.


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## bripat9643 (Oct 23, 2017)

deanrd said:


> bripat9643 said:
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> > WINNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Republicans barbeque little children, don't they?


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## bripat9643 (Oct 23, 2017)

otto105 said:


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CO2 isn't pollution, and global warming is the world's biggest con.


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## deanrd (Oct 23, 2017)

bripat9643 said:


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I only suspected.  We know they poison them.


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## deanrd (Oct 23, 2017)

bripat9643 said:


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No, that would be Donald Trump.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 23, 2017)

deanrd said:


> bripat9643 said:
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CO2 is much more dangerous than lead, eh?


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## badger2 (Oct 24, 2017)

While Republicans bar-bq tots, morbid mass at Cleveland can rest assured that the Arab son's climate change policy helps them to move it perversely across surfaces in maintaining their petroleum addiction. At least we see discourse about solar energy, even the word, "ohms."


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## badger2 (Oct 24, 2017)

Was not O trained in law, and knew that the repeal would happen post-administration if Trump won? Bernie was already an impossible choice due to his socialism (which O was most certainly aware of), and Hillary had boasted about coal reserves. As it is one party with two "right" wings, what would Hillary have done?


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## badger2 (Oct 24, 2017)

Post #1 is problematic for the geography of the flag. Those it is speaking of were snatched from their indigenous lands to be deposited elsewhere. The term "people of color" is pathological in the extreme, because it is too timid to reveal the contradiction by using the terms "Indians" or "Native Americans." Why the reification by sports addicts in the first place? Genocide was indeed a serious sport on the American frontier, an environmentally aware sport, to be sure.


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## badger2 (Oct 24, 2017)

In OP's post the report states" 6 Oct 2017....not in the interest of the EPA....'

Hold up, Dipshit. It is the City that invents agriculture, not the other way around. The EPA's argument with Congress or with the president is as irrelevant as Ohio's EPA director Craig Butler saying that the designation "impaired" is "immaterial." while simultaneously the problem is as material as can be. Janus-faced is Pruitt's logic. Hazard, Kentucky militancy on oxycontin.

'Apart from an extensive frontier militia, available for short-term service, and the deployment of six mounted volunteer ranger companies, there was the fact that Kentucky, a state forged in Indian conflict and the home of congressional War Hawks, was equipping large armies for the field.'
(Sugden, Tecumseh, p.314)


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## badger2 (Oct 24, 2017)

EPA's problem is Lake Erie algae. We have already posted the pertinent Alzheimer's abstracts for the toxin. The ethmoid sinus is the point of origin in the aluminosilicate hypothesis of Alzheimer's and well as the point of entry of influenza viruses.

The most current Pubmed report on the toxin, microcystin is a anadian report that includes a Chinese worker. We will be exposing the deceptions of this report, which is here:

Annals of Hepatology Nov-Dec 2017 (the abstract says Oct), Long-Term Low-Dose Exposure to Microcystin-LR Does Not Cause or Increase the Severity of Liver Disease in Rodents, (U. of Manitoba)
Long-Term, Low-Dose Exposure to Microcystin-LR Does not Cause or Increase the Severity of Liver Disease in Rodents.  - PubMed - NCBI


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## badger2 (Oct 24, 2017)

The Canadian report above states:

 'The reason(s) for the discrepancy between the above reports and our own findings remain to be determined....The need to determine whether cyanotoxins enhance hepatic injury in the setting of existing liver disease was driven by the growing epidemic of obesity and high prevalence of viral hepatitis which together, have resulted in large segments of the population diagnosed with chronic liver disease.
....
Mice with thioacetamide-induced liver injury....'

1.) The report invokes viral hepatitis in the human population but uses a non-viral method in mice to simulate real world viral hepatitis. Thioacetamide itself links to one deceptive part of the article, and the (anti-viral link [italics]) is here:

Jun 2012 Shandong, China, Arylazolyl(azinyl)thioacetanilide. Part 9:  Synthesis and Biological Investigation of Thioazolylthioacetamide Derivatives As A Novel Class
 of Potential Antiviral Agents
Arylazolyl(azinyl)thioacetanilide. Part 9: Synthesis and biological investigation of thiazolylthioacetamides derivatives as a novel class of potent...  - PubMed - NCBI
'....HIV-1....influenza....values much lower than oseltamivir carboxylate, ribavirin, amantidine, and rimantidine.'

It is the metablism of the Chinese worker that actually leads to the origin of the deception in this microcystin study:

(1990) Diazepam Metablism in Native Chinese Poor and Extensive Hydroxylators of S-mephenytoin: Interethnic Differences in Comparison with White Subjects
Diazepam metabolism in native Chinese poor and extensive hydroxylators of S-mephenytoin: interethnic differences in comparison with white subjects.  - PubMed - NCBI

We next link diazepam to influenza, making the Alzheimer's connection to the ethmoid sinus entry point:

May 2015 Diazepam / Influenza
Immune cell expression of GABAA receptors and the effects of diazepam on influenza infection.  - PubMed - NCBI

We then link diazepam to influenza for (why not?) a Japanese study:

1996 Osaka,Japan, Induction of Peripheral-Type Benzodiazepine Receptors in Mouse Brain Following Thioacetamide-Induced Acute Liver Failure
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8786707


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## badger2 (Oct 24, 2017)

The 1990 diazepam / Chinese metabolism study links the Chinese worker involved with the Canadian microcystin study.


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## badger2 (Oct 25, 2017)

The prisoners can see the photos of the toxic algae working its way up the Maumee River.

The Badger Herald 24 Oct 2017 Foxconn Project Sparks Concerns for Wisconsin's Environment
'....Between 2013 and 2016, the Lake Michigan water level rose by four feet, causing erosion to Mount Pleasant bluffs and beaches that has brought coastal homes dangerously close to falling into the lake....For the wetlands they fill in, Foxconn is supposed to create new wetlands on a two to one ratio. But the new wetlands may be in different locations, meaning they won't prevent flooding in the original areas.'

There is no guarantee that flood waters will not contain toxic algae, and a review of the aging pipeline under Lake Superior seems timely, as homes can go for as little as a grand at Detroit.


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## badger2 (Oct 25, 2017)

We can now see why the smuggled International Edition of Fundamentals of Electric Circuits showed up in town:

'....Taylor referenced Foxconn's history of pollution in China as a reason the state should be taking more steps, not less, to protect the environment. " We are threading a lot of environmental protections for this company that, one of their hallmarks is they dump these toxic chemicals into rivers and streams. That's what they did in China," Taylor said. "That's why they want to be near water. They need water but they also dump their toxic chemicals into rivers and streams" In 2013, environmental groups raised concerns that Foxconn was dumping "water with a black-green color and chemical odor" into theHuangcanjing and Hanputang rivers in China twice a day, according toDailyTech. Foxconn claimed its actions were within emission standards. DNR spokesperson Jim Dick said in an email to The Badger Herald that exempting Foxconn from EIS poses "no regulatory consequence." The DNR will still take all potential environmental consequences into account during the permit review process.
....
He said Foxconn has already met with UW officials to discuss curriculum creation that could prepare students students for the company's workforce.....It's not just like some big factory coming into Wisconsin. This is really a game changer for the state," Maley said. "It's really the next stage of manufacturing and it's kind of exciting that it's happening in the state of Wisconsin."

But Taylor criticized the decision to give so much financial support to a foreign company when Wisconsin has many local companies that are struggling and could benefit from government incentives....reflects a lack of investment in students. Rather than helping students refinance their student loan debt or make college more affordable, Republican legislators invested in a foreign company that has shown little respect for the environment in the past," Taylor said.'

As with the Chinese Emerald Ash Borer, it was being cultivated in DNR labs before it was positively identified, and no CDC-gestapo swooped down on them to investigate disease possiblities.


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## badger2 (Oct 25, 2017)

EPA has a problem: reifying clean air (Kentucky coal lobby) while ignoring clean water (Craig Butler's "immaterial" tag).  This is a decent video about the threat, which includes acid-making zebra mussels, recalling that mussels can sequester the algal toxin, microcystin:

8 Jul 2015  Are Michigan's Pristine Lakes At Risk From Aging Pipelines?


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## badger2 (Oct 25, 2017)

They are linked to the same general area: Chinese Emerald Ash Borer and Microcystis. One important link is arsenic:

Microcystis and Arsenic
microcystis[AND]arsenic - PubMed - NCBI


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## WheelieAddict (Oct 25, 2017)

GOP is gonna GOP. Don't forget it.


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## badger2 (Oct 25, 2017)

Alzheimer's and Arsenic
alzheimer's]arsenic - PubMed - NCBI


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## otto105 (Oct 26, 2017)

bripat9643 said:


> otto105 said:
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CO2 isn't a pollutant? Sure if we are considering that which comes from humans and animals, but let's say I put a running engine in your house and close all the windows...you still going to say CO2 is not a pollutant?

The  biggest con in the world? It's either religion or the trump administration.


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## bripat9643 (Oct 26, 2017)

otto105 said:


> bripat9643 said:
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What if we fill your house with water?  Is it a pollutant?


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## otto105 (Oct 26, 2017)

bripat9643 said:


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So you don't have an answer.


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## bripat9643 (Oct 26, 2017)

otto105 said:


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Thanks for self-idenfiying as an imbecile.


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## badger2 (Oct 26, 2017)

But the religion link to the Clinton mafia vs the Trump administration is also an ecology link, as we have shown on the JFK thread. We have shown on this one, that Microcystis is assisted in synthesizing its toxin via arsenic. The Clinton link is an MI5 & MI6 link as well, so here is an Isham DNA link to statistics in the UK for river blindness:

Isham / Dept. of Statistical Science, London / Onchocerciasis (River Blindness)
Response to the Letter to the Editor by Eberhard et al.  - PubMed - NCBI

Perched at the end of Lake Erie itself, the Temperance, Michigan addresses are Pentecostal Isham DNA, on property confiscated with the assistance of Asian Triad heroin, cocaine, methamphetamine, etc. The Isham DNA there links to Harriman, Tennessee, not far from the Clinton mafia link to British intelligence at Oliver Springs, Tennessee for the Rector-Boteler-Amery assemblage and naval admiralty. These are the links that Chapman Pincher never knew of.

Thus see reports for methamphetamine at Harriman, Tennessee and the Bedford Heroin Rally.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 26, 2017)

otto105 said:


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*
let's say I put a running engine in your house and close all the windows...you still going to say CO2 is not a pollutant?
*
Yes, I'll still say CO2 is not a pollutant.


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## ABikerSailor (Oct 26, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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You know what happens when you put a person in an environment with more CO2 than oxygen?  They suffocate to death.  Matter of fact, if you place 4 people in a sealed room with bunk beds and let them go to sleep, in the morning the people on the bottom bunk will be dead, while the people on the top bunk may still be alive.  Why?  CO2 is heavier than oxygen and displaces it, resulting in the person breathing the CO2 dying of asphyxiation. 

Matter of fact, there have been several instances where scientists have proven this happens.  One was a lake in Africa that killed a bunch of people and livestock.

Lake Nyos - Wikipedia

*Lake Nyos is a crater lake in the Northwest Region of Cameroon, located about 315 km (196 mi) northwest of Yaoundé in Africa.[1] Nyos is a deep lake high on the flank of an inactive volcano in the Oku volcanic plain along the Cameroon line of volcanic activity. A volcanic dam impounds the lake waters.


A pocket of magma lies beneath the lake and leaks carbon dioxide (CO2) into the water, changing it into carbonic acid. Nyos is one of only three known exploding lakes to be saturated with carbon dioxide in this way, the others being Lake Monoun, also in Cameroon, and Lake Kivu in Democratic Republic of Congo.


In 1986, possibly as the result of a landslide, Lake Nyos suddenly emitted a large cloud of CO2, which suffocated 1,746 people[2] and 3,500 livestock in nearby towns and villages.[3][4] Though not completely unprecedented, it was the first known large-scale asphyxiation caused by a natural event. To prevent a recurrence, a degassing tube that siphons water from the bottom layers of water to the top allowing the carbon dioxide to leak in safe quantities was installed in 2001, and two additional tubes were installed in 2011.*


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 26, 2017)

ABikerSailor said:


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Thanks.
CO2 still isn't a pollutant.


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## polarbear (Oct 26, 2017)

ABikerSailor said:


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What kind of a dimwit would call CO2 a pollutant based on that?
Then by your definition Oxygen is also a pollutant (as in poisonous) because breathing pure O2 will kill you as well.
Oxygen toxicity - Wikipedia
Severe cases can result in cell damage and *death,* with effects most often seen in the central nervous system, lungs and eyes.
Central nervous system toxicity is caused by short exposure to high partial pressures of oxygen at greater than atmospheric pressure. Pulmonary and ocular toxicity result from longer exposure to increased oxygen levels at normal pressure. Symptoms may include disorientation, breathing problems, and vision changes such as myopia. Prolonged exposure to above-normal oxygen partial pressures, or shorter exposures to very high partial pressures, can cause oxidative damage to cell membranes, collapse of the alveoli in the lungs, retinal detachment, and seizures
And btw how would you survive if we were to get rid of all the CO2 and every plant that uses it disappears ?


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## koshergrl (Oct 26, 2017)

bripat9643 said:


> WINNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> EPA poised to formally repeal Clean Power Plan in major blow to Obama’s climate legacy​
> _The Environmental Protection Agency is expected to soon formally repeal the Clean Power Plan (CPP) in what would be one of the biggest blows yet to former President Barack Obama’s legacy on climate change.
> ...



Joy!


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## otto105 (Oct 26, 2017)

polarbear said:


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The US Clean Air Act was incorporated into the United States Code of Federal Regulations, Title 42, Chapter 85.  Its Title III, Section 7602(g) defines an air pollutant:

The term “air pollutant” means any air pollution agent or combination of such agents, including any physical, chemical, biological, radioactive (including source material, special nuclear material, and byproduct material) substance or matter which is emitted into or otherwise enters the ambient air.
Clearly this is a very broad definition.  More importantly, its Title 42, Section 7408 states that the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Administrator must publish a list of certain air pollutants:

"emissions of which, in his judgment, cause or contribute to air pollution which may reasonably be anticipated to endanger public health or welfare"
In Massachusetts v. Environmental Protection Agency (in 2007), the US Supreme Court held that the Clean Air Act gives the EPA the authority to regulate tailpipe emissions of greenhouse gases. Two years after the Supreme Court ruling, in 2009 the EPA issued an endangerment finding concluding that

"greenhouse gases in the atmosphere may reasonably be anticipated both to endanger public health and to endanger public welfare....The major assessments by the U.S. Global Climate Research Program (USGCRP), the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), and the National Research Council (NRC) serve as the primary scientific basis supporting the Administrator’s endangerment finding."Greenhouse gases including CO2 unquestionably fit the Clean Air Act's broad definition of "air pollutants," and must be listed and regulated by the EPA if it can be determined that they endanger public heath and/or welfare.
Alternatively, the definition of "pollution" from Encyclopedia Brittanica is:
"the addition of any substance (solid, liquid, or gas) or any form of energy (such as heat, sound, or radioactivity) to the environment at a rate faster than it can be dispersed, diluted, decomposed, recycled, or stored in some harmless form."
Thus legally in the USA, CO2 is an air pollutant which must be regulated if it may endanger public health or welfare.  And according to the encyclopedic definition, CO2 is a pollutant unless our emissions can be stored "harmlessly."


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## Toddsterpatriot (Oct 26, 2017)

otto105 said:


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*
Two years after the Supreme Court ruling, in 2009 the EPA issued an endangerment finding concluding that "greenhouse gases in the atmosphere may reasonably be anticipated both to endanger public health and to endanger public welfare....
*
Yeah, that's how we know the EPA is full of shit and needs to be cut back.


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## koshergrl (Oct 26, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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They need to be eliminated. 
Along with the fbi, the cia, the usfs, the blm, and usfws...just to mention a few illegal and corrupt agencies that should never have been created in the first place.


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## otto105 (Oct 26, 2017)

koshergrl said:


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And you conservatives wonder why nobody outside opioid addicted rural whites folks and fox news take you serious.


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## koshergrl (Oct 26, 2017)

otto105 said:


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Oh look, the "rural white people are rubes" script. 

Haven't heard anybody reading off that one for about..oh, 3 minutes or so.


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## badger2 (Oct 26, 2017)

In Mahoney's book, JFK: Ordeal in Africa, we see the map of the Congo and Lake Kivu at the front of the book. CO2 at Kivu would make an interesting study of vectors of the Congo ebola outbreaks, because mosquitoes, at least, are attracted to CO2. The closest ebola cases, recalling offhand, occurred at the gold mines in the region.


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## otto105 (Oct 26, 2017)

koshergrl said:


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I actually posted opioid addicted rural whites folks which is factual.


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## koshergrl (Oct 26, 2017)

otto105 said:


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About as factual as it is to call dems black crack hos.


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## badger2 (Oct 26, 2017)

Yes, opioid-addicted rural whites is documented for heroin at Pubmed. The study showed that black youth in their teens evolved to white middle-class in their mid-twenties. Ohio.


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## badger2 (Oct 26, 2017)

We once had the hard-copy of the Pergolizzi original that mentioned black teens historically morphing into whites:

Pergolizzi JV / NEMA Research, The Changing Face of Opioid Addiction
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/changing-face-opioid-addiction-valandy-manohar
'....abuse rate is higher in rural areas....'


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## badger2 (Oct 26, 2017)

The Changing Face of Opioid Addiction / Linkedin
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/chan...-6059212218807906304?articleId=82960943262457
'....the abuse rate was higher in rural areas....'


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## koshergrl (Oct 26, 2017)

badger2 said:


> The Changing Face of Opioid Addiction / Linkedin
> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/chan...-6059212218807906304?articleId=82960943262457
> '....the abuse rate was higher in rural areas....'


I'm sure you think you're making a giant point here.


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## badger2 (Oct 26, 2017)

No, Pergolizzi already did that.


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