# Northern vs Southern Democrats on Slavery



## Dante (Sep 21, 2012)

Northern vs Southern Democrats on Slavery

Wilmot Proviso


----------



## blimpo (Sep 22, 2012)

What about it?


----------



## Dante (Sep 23, 2012)

blimpo said:


> What about it?



Northern Democrats who were against slavery? Southerners were the Democrats who wanted slavery. 

Northern Democrats fought for a twisted view of states rights. Southern Democrats fought for the right to keep slavery legal and to keep slavery in new territories -- expand slavery

where am I wrong?


----------



## spectrumc01 (Sep 23, 2012)

At this point in the game does it matter?


----------



## blimpo (Sep 23, 2012)

Here is the official way they stack up-

Republicans: anti-slavery
Radical Republicans: extremists against slavery

Democrats: not pro-slavery, but felt it was a necessary evil that would soon fade
Southern Democrats: very pro-slavery, thought it should be everywhere, especially in new territories and new states.


----------



## Dante (Sep 24, 2012)

blimpo said:


> Here is the official way they stack up-
> 
> Republicans: anti-slavery
> Radical Republicans: extremists against slavery
> ...





simplistic


----------



## Moonglow (Sep 24, 2012)

How about Democrat KKK vs Republican KKK ?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Sep 24, 2012)

Dante said:


> Northern vs Southern Democrats on Slavery
> 
> Wilmot Proviso



Government entitlement programs are the modern day equivalent to slavery.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Sep 24, 2012)

blimpo said:


> Here is the official way they stack up-
> 
> Republicans: anti-slavery
> Radical Republicans: extremists against slavery
> ...



Is that your official stance?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Sep 24, 2012)

Moonglow said:


> How about Democrat KKK vs Republican KKK ?



How about not.


----------



## Dante (Sep 24, 2012)

Moonglow said:


> How about Democrat KKK vs Republican KKK ?



nope

How about Southern White Christian Conservative KKK vs Truly Good Americans?


----------



## Dante (Sep 24, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Northern vs Southern Democrats on Slavery
> ...



Spoken like a true Cracker


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Sep 24, 2012)

Dante said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > How about Democrat KKK vs Republican KKK ?
> ...



how about liberal Government slavery entitlement programs wanters


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Sep 24, 2012)

Dante said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



Spoken like a clueless dipshit.


----------



## Dante (Sep 24, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



I got my view of southern white conservatives by a white man born and raised in SC. He was an academic and a historian, with credentials on SC history and the history of the Catholic Church with Bishop Lynch (no shit, real name) supporting the Confederacy and slavery. Bishop Lynch was a Confederate Ambassador to Europe...

Supporting Slavery, not States rights. 

  fool you know so little


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Sep 24, 2012)

Dante said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



oh wow you know one supposed southerner that makes you know the truth? 
You dumb son of a bitch South Carolina is but one southern states,
Care to defend your position against North Carolina secession and the cause for North Carolina seceding?


----------



## Dante (Sep 24, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



SC Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

one reason


----------



## Dante (Sep 24, 2012)

Introduction

North Carolina waited longer than any other state except Tennessee to secede from the Union and join the Confederacy. This is not to say that the Old North State had no secessionists. Rather, North Carolinians had conflicting ideas about leaving the Union. Although staunch supporters of slavery, many North Carolinians hesitated when it came to taking such a significant step as secession. Some felt it better to stay in the Union and enjoy the Constitutional protections offered there, rather than give up those protections to embark on a new journey. However, when Confederate forces fired upon Fort Sumter and President Abraham Lincoln asked for troops from North Carolina to put down the rebellion, the state acted swiftly and decisively. North Carolina seceded from the Union on May 20, 1861, and the state's involvement in the Civil War began. The following narrative details North Carolina's antebellum political, economic, and social circumstances that led up to this decision.

The North Carolina Civil War Experience - The Road to Secession

a partial history


----------



## Dante (Sep 24, 2012)

North Carolina -- Oh please, Barbarians- let truth prevail -- only when truth is told can society move on  Confederate Culture? Please, stop the bullshit

Slavery, by its very nature was dehumanizing, as people were considered property and their worth was primarily valued by the amount of work they could do. Most slave owners provided the mere basics for their slaves, as any extra consideration would cut into their profit margin. The average slave dwelling was very basic, usually rough log, one-room houses with dirt floors and a fireplace for heating and cooking. Most windows contained no glass, only a wooden shutter to close out harsh elements of rain, wind, and cold. There were exceptions, such as the housing at Horton Grove on Stagville plantation, where Paul Cameron provided some of his slaves with two-story, four room quarters, with wood floors. These buildings housed four families, with each family getting one room. Despite being crowded, these dwellings were nonetheless considered of higher standard than most houses for the enslaved population.

Owners usually provided the most basic food rations, including some meat - usually fat pork  cornmeal, and molasses. Enslaved people often supplemented this meager diet with vegetables grown in a community or household garden, which they tended only after their day's labor for the owner was completed. Slaves also improved their diet by hunting and fishing when possible.

Even within the enslaved community, there was a social hierarchy. On large plantations, the personal servants, household servants, slave drivers, and black overseers held a higher status than the vast majority of slaves that worked in the fields. Owners sometimes allowed enslaved craftsmen and artisans more freedom of movement than others. Slaves who worked the naval stores industry and maritime trades had tremendous freedom but were nonetheless, by all legal accounts, still enslaved. Some owners even allowed well trusted slaves permission to travel and visit family members on nearby plantations or towns. At Somerset Place, Josiah Collins granted a holiday so that several of his slaves could travel to Edenton to visit family. Enslaved people in the western part of the state often led livestock over long drives to market in South Carolina and Georgia. This relative independence stands in sharp contrast to the tight control by overseers over field hands on large plantations. One might wonder why slaves simply did not leave and never return if they were granted such freedom of movement. Many did. Even those held under tight control on eastern plantations made attempts to escape. Records of runaways and the efforts employed by slave owners to secure their return are part of the historical record. Many slaves escaped via the waterways and swamps of eastern North Carolina but it was a frightening and treacherous journey filled with threats from man and nature. The story of Harriet Jacobs of Edenton highlights what one woman would endure in her quest for freedom. She not only secured her freedom in 1842 but wrote about it and published Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl in 1861.
Great Barn at Stagville

The Great Barn - built by slaves at Stagville Plantation in 1860

Discipline and punishment within the institution of slavery was varied. Certainly there were despicable slave owners who whipped and abused their slaves without conscience. The majority most likely did not treat their slaves in a brutal fashion. After all, enslaved people were legally considered property and it was in their owners' best interests to keep them healthy enough to work. Nevertheless, even the kindest master could resort to harsh disciplinary measures when necessary, in order to maintain control of his or her labor force. Whipping was often used as a means of punishment and also as a means of intimidating others to behave and work diligently lest they be whipped next. As the voices of abolitionists in the North grew louder, white southern fears of slave revolts grew stronger, causing owners to exercise ever more control over their property.

Perhaps the most effective means for controlling the enslaved population was simply the threat of being "sold South." Demand for slaves in the lower South grew with the expansion of cotton cultivation at a far greater pace than in North Carolina. A very active slave trade developed between the upper and lower South after the international slave trade ended in 1808. Between 1830 and 1860, North Carolina exported about 100,000 slaves to states in the lower South. Such sales often resulted in the break up of an enslaved family. In fact the dissolution of families was one of the hardest circumstances of a slave's life. This is evident in the poetry of George Moses Horton, a Chatham County slave who wrote and sold poems to students at the University of North Carolina. Changes that occurred in the master's life, such as marriage, death, or simply relocating, often had ripple effects on the lives of enslaved property. If the master suffered an economic or financial crisis, he often quickly sold off some of his slaves to obtain ready cash. Thus, for the enslaved, there was no guarantee each morning that they would see their loved ones later that night.

The North Carolina Civil War Experience - The Road to Secession


----------



## Dante (Sep 24, 2012)

History can be ugly, and it can be doubly so for people in denial


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Sep 24, 2012)

Dante said:


> History can be ugly, and it can be doubly so for people in denial



Pull your racist head out of obama's ass long enough to see that slavery wasn't the cause for most southern states for leaving the union. North Careolina just happens to be one of those states./


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Sep 24, 2012)

Dante said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...


Again South Carolina is but one state


----------



## Dante (Sep 24, 2012)

We think the wingnut dost protest too much



> New reputation!
> Hi, you have received -708 reputation points from bigrebnc1775.
> Reputation was given for this post.
> 
> ...





> New reputation!
> Hi, you have received 1417 reputation points from bigrebnc1775.
> Reputation was given for this post.
> 
> ...


 
09-24-2012 New reputation!
06:58 AM bigrebnc1775


09-24-2012 New reputation!
06:57 AM bigrebnc1775


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Sep 24, 2012)

Dante said:


> We think the wingnut dost protest too much
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think you the wing nut lied way too much


----------



## Dante (Sep 24, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > We think the wingnut dost protest too much
> ...



just curious. what happened?


----------



## Dante (Sep 24, 2012)




----------



## Uncensored2008 (Sep 24, 2012)

Dante said:


> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> > What about it?
> ...



Pretty much everywhere.

The issue was admittance of new slave states, not the abolition of slavery. The south feared that the balance of power would be upset by adding a host of new free states. 

What you post is an ignorant revision of history.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Sep 24, 2012)

Dante said:


> I got my view of southern white conservatives by a white man born and raised in SC.



It appears more likely that you got your views by having your head shoved up your ass.



> He was an academic and a historian, with credentials on SC history and the history of the Catholic Church with Bishop Lynch (no shit, real name) supporting the Confederacy and slavery. Bishop Lynch was a Confederate Ambassador to Europe...



Yet you're an ignorant buffoon without any knowledge of history...



> Supporting Slavery, not States rights.
> 
> fool you know so little



Dante, did you finish second grade, or did you quit to "work the streets?"


----------



## Staidhup (Sep 24, 2012)

Slavery was but one of the three points of the trident that served as the catalyst launching the country into Civil War. You had agrarian south, south east, and West beholding to the economic power of the northern bankers / manufacturers, and issue of states sovereign rights versus the centralized government controlled by northeastern special interests. The distinction between southern Democrats and northern Democrats in the 1860's was simply one was willing to make a stand and die for preservation and one that would simply skirt the issue in the name of harmony.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Sep 24, 2012)

Staidhup said:


> Slavery was but one of the three points of the trident that served as the catalyst launching the country into Civil War. You had agrarian south, south east, and West beholding to the economic power of the northern bankers / manufacturers, and issue of states sovereign rights versus the centralized government controlled by northeastern special interests. The distinction between southern Democrats and northern Democrats in the 1860's was simply one was willing to make a stand and die for preservation and one that would simply skirt the issue in the name of harmony.



You make an excellent point. Despite revisionism and stupidity, the Republican party of Lincoln was one that promoted industrialists and investors, which as you point out were in the North and had an economic stake in in the wage labor market. The Democrats promoted slavery in conjunction with an agrarian model and the pseudo feudalism that dominated the party.

The Republicans haven't changed very much, they are still the party of industrialists and free marketeers. The democrats remain paternalistic and authoritarian.


----------



## Dante (Sep 24, 2012)

Wilmot Proviso - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Uncensored2008 said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > blimpo said:
> ...


Wilmot Proviso - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wow! Talk about spin and revisionist history.   Slavery in the territories. Free states? States where slavery would be banned? If that ain't the road to the abolition of slavery...

Bleeding Kansas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


John Brown and other ABOLITIONISTS were in the forefront of battling the OWNING of slaves in the new territories.


----------



## Dante (Sep 24, 2012)

Staidhup said:


> Slavery was but one of the three points of the trident that served as the catalyst launching the country into Civil War. You had agrarian south, south east, and West beholding to the economic power of the northern bankers / manufacturers, and issue of states sovereign rights versus the centralized government controlled by northeastern special interests. *The distinction between southern Democrats and northern Democrats in the 1860's was simply one was willing to make a stand and die for preservation and one that would simply skirt the issue in the name of harmony.*



*Nope. *

The Southern Slave Holders wanted slavery in the territories. Most Northern Democrats were battling for teh states and territories to decide for themselves. Some of these N. Democrats were against slavery, but considered states rights to be important. 

later, the racist white Southern crackers ended up hijacking the states rights argument to justify the war.

South Carolina was adamant -- the right to own slaves was their primary cause for starting the Civil War.


----------



## Dante (Sep 24, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Staidhup said:
> 
> 
> > Slavery was but one of the three points of the trident that served as the catalyst launching the country into Civil War. You had agrarian south, south east, and West beholding to the economic power of the northern bankers / manufacturers, and issue of states sovereign rights versus the centralized government controlled by northeastern special interests. The distinction between southern Democrats and northern Democrats in the 1860's was simply one was willing to make a stand and die for preservation and one that would simply skirt the issue in the name of harmony.
> ...



The Southern White Conservative Democrats left the DNC into the open arms of the GOP. The Southern Strategy of the GOP kept White Southerners in power on a national level.

The Republican party of Lincoln ended up disappearing when Reagan helped chase out the Northern Lincoln/Rockefeller Liberals out of the GOP


----------



## Dante (Sep 24, 2012)




----------



## Dante (Sep 24, 2012)

> New reputation!
> Hi, you have received -521 reputation points from Uncensored2008.
> Reputation was given for this post.
> 
> ...



Oh my. It must be raining pussies and dicks


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Sep 24, 2012)

Dante said:


> The Southern White Conservative Democrats left the DNC into the open arms of the GOP. The Southern Strategy of the GOP kept White Southerners in power on a national level.
> 
> The Republican party of Lincoln ended up disappearing when Reagan helped chase out the Northern Lincoln/Rockefeller Liberals out of the GOP



I understand your desperation to redefine the democrats from the paternalistic overseers who owned, yet cared for their keep; to some sort of "free market" champions who just happened to own slaves and oppose market forces. But you do realize that anyone with a modicum of intellect recognizes you as abysmally stupid and devoid of any historical perspective, right?


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Sep 24, 2012)

Dante said:


> Oh my. It must be raining pussies and dicks



If you neg me, you stupid little fuck, I'll hit you right back.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Sep 25, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Oh my. It must be raining pussies and dicks
> ...



He negs me then post the neg I gave him back. As if he has done nothing.


----------



## blimpo (Sep 26, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> > Here is the official way they stack up-
> ...




It's simple, yes.

It covers each group in explanations most can understand.

It is generally recognized as a truthful explanation.

It is all time allows me to post.

I will add- Since most in the Southerners didn't own slaves, rich influencial slave owners worked hard to convince the non-slave-owning population that the main problem was the feds acting as bullies and promoted the states' rights issue as the reason conflict was needed.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Sep 26, 2012)

blimpo said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > blimpo said:
> ...




You are so fucking far off it's laughable.


----------



## blimpo (Sep 28, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...




In what way?


----------



## Dante (Oct 1, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Oh my. It must be raining pussies and dicks
> ...



go fuck a dead duck you weird little twerp


----------



## Dante (Oct 1, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > The Southern White Conservative Democrats left the DNC into the open arms of the GOP. The Southern Strategy of the GOP kept White Southerners in power on a national level.
> ...



your imbecility is showing...


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Oct 2, 2012)

Dante said:


> go fuck a dead duck you weird little twerp



I am NOT going to fuck you, dante, no matter how much you beg!


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Oct 2, 2012)

Dante said:


> your imbecility is showing...



The problem with the mentally retarded, i.e. you, is that while you can be trained to regurgitate talking points, you really have no clue what they mean.

As a drone, the most you can do is relay a concept to the hive, and let the group decide what it means; so relay this to your masters, Dante; Slavery defies the concepts of a free and uncoerced market. It cannot be "conservative" by simple fact that it is a paternalistic and authoritarian systems.


----------



## Dante (Oct 14, 2012)

..


.


----------

