# Putin Declares War on the Ukraine



## PinktheFloyd88

He cannot feel secure with the threat from the Ukraine. He is declaring a military operation against Ukraine...war...


https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/1496678843981209600









						Russia attacks Ukraine as defiant Putin warns US, NATO
					

MOSCOW (AP) — Russian troops launched their anticipated attack on Ukraine on Thursday, as President Vladimir Putin cast aside international condemnation and sanctions, warning other countries that any attempt to interfere would lead to “consequences you have never seen.”




					apnews.com


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## 1srelluc

Marco Rubio says that the Invasion of the Ukraine is under way.

https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ukraine?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Mykolaiv Oblast


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## Blackrook

People will never learn.


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## MisterBeale

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> He cannot feel secure with the threat from the Ukraine. He is declaring a military operation against Ukraine...war...
> 
> 
> Https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/1496678843981209600


Learn how to post a link.


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## PinktheFloyd88

https://twitter.com/brycewilsonAU/status/1496680568540565505


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## 1srelluc

I read today that his first move would be to secure the Black Sea.


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## skye

Oh cool......now the Turnip Administration can blame  all the bad that's happening in the US on that!


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## EvilCat Breath

We are partly dependent on Russia for our energy.  As always, enemy democrats preen, we pay the price.

The air strikes have started.  Russia is shelling missiles.  I have heard idiotic, stupid people say the situation has spiraled out of control.  Not true.  Putin has it firmly in control.


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## skye

*Yawn*

Biden is still and will remain a moron.


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## AzogtheDefiler

Kiev under attack. China watching this and ready to take Taiwan. Russia/China alliance in full force. The Western Alliance better wake up.


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## PinktheFloyd88

MisterBeale said:


> Learn how to post a link.


Thank you!!


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## Stann

9:15 p.m. Central standard Time ABC News special Russia has begun The invasion it's not just the two separatist States they're attacking all of the Ukraine. Putin has gone insane. Now there is the threat of world war III in the end of everything because of idiots, tyrants like him. Biden keeps saying he will not send troops to the Ukraine. But once Poland does and other European nations follow we will get involved.


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## Batcat

Obviously Joe Biden’s sanctions failed to deter Putin.

Xi Jinping, the leader of China, is watching what happens while planning to take over Taiwan.

Of course the Democrats will attempt to blame everything on Trump as usual.

I personally am wondering if Putin is stable. It’s bad enough that our nation with all its nuclear weapons is run by a President with dementia but things could get really hairy if Russia with all its nuclear weapons is being run by a person who might be mentally unstable.

*Is Putin Sane?*


			https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/02/is-vladimir-putin-sane.html
		


***snip***

_No one can see into another person’s mind from afar, of course. And plenty of perfectly sane leaders, including our own, have made catastrophicforeign-policy decisions that, in retrospect, seem quite bonkers. But as the will-he-or-won’t-he predicament over Ukraine continues, the possibility that Putin is not playing with a full deck of cards at the very least robs the conflict of the narrative power that has been invested in it by those in the West who see it as a battle between the forces of good and evil, and who imagine Putin in his lair hating freedom the way the Grinch hates the singing of the Whos. Even more terrifying, this extremely powerful, extremely horrible person might invade Ukraine for reasons that are as unhinged as they are inscrutable — and maybe even understandable. As we all know by now, isolation is a hell of a drug._


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## Stann

Stann said:


> 9:15 p.m. Central standard Time ABC News special Russia has begun The invasion it's not just the two separatist States they're attacking all of the Ukraine. Putin has gone insane. Now there is the threat of world war III in the end of everything because of idiots, tyrants like him. Biden keeps saying he will not send troops to the Ukraine. But once Poland does and other European nations follow we will get involved.


Abcnews.com


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## JGalt

skye said:


> *Yawn*
> 
> Biden is still and will remain a moron.



I wonder if anyone has woke him up and told him yet?


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## TemplarKormac

Ukraine is a UN member. The US is bound by article 5 to assist. If not, the UN is for all intents and purposes, defunct.

(EDIT: This post was made in error. I confused this with NATO Article 5, and Ukraine is not a member of NATO. However, Article 6, Article 27, Article 52 Paragraph 6 of the UN Charter, and UN Resolution 377 could provide a way for Russia to be expelled from the UN, maybe without China's input)


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## skye

The stupidity of humankind, but hopefully it won't be anything like that.


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## TemplarKormac

The world is too interconnected now to ignore this threat


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## JGalt

TemplarKormac said:


> Ukraine is a UN member. The US is bound by article 5 to assist. If not, the UN is for all intents and purposes, defunct.



Ukraine isn't a member.

NATO on the Map


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## night_son

1srelluc said:


> Marco Rubio says that the Invasion of the Ukraine is under way.
> 
> https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ukraine?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc^tfw
> 
> Mykolaiv Oblast



Well . . . shit. 

If Biden his time's got brain one in that zombie head he will keep our military out of it. Well, fuck.


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## TemplarKormac

JGalt said:


> Ukraine isn't a member.


Wait wasn't their ambassador just speaking to the UN just now? Why would they call for a meeting of the security council, then? Aren't only member states allowed to do that?


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## Wyatt earp

Stann said:


> Abcnews.com


The closest  link for your thread


Russia-Ukraine updates: Putin announces military operation in Ukraine - ABC News
Russia-Ukraine updates: Putin announces military operation in Ukraine


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## Stann

skye said:


> The stupidity of humankind, but hopefully it won't be anything like that.
> 
> 
> View attachment 605841


No one wants war. Today Putin is attacking the Ukraine. Tomorrow who else is in danger Poland again the Baltic states the Czech Republic the Slovak Republic Hungary Romania all the countries that Yugoslavia dissolved into. What will be enough for this madman


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## night_son

Blackrook said:


> People will never learn.



People never change. Not in 50,000 years and not a million years from now, if any are still around.


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## JGalt

TemplarKormac said:


> Wait wasn't their ambassador just speaking to the UN just now? Why would they call for a meeting of the security council, then? Aren't only member states allowed to do that?



Not really sure. They like some other countries are "NATO Partners", even though they're not members.


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## TemplarKormac

JGalt said:


> Ukraine isn't a member.
> 
> NATO on the Map


I'm talking about the UN, not NATO


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## toobfreak

skye said:


> The stupidity of humankind, but hopefully it won't be anything like that.
> 
> 
> View attachment 605841



Wow!  I predicted it would happen yesterday, last week!  I was only a day off.


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## AMart

Biden says you are welcome!


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## skye

Stann said:


> No one wants war. Today Putin is attacking the Ukraine. Tomorrow who else is in danger Poland again the Baltic states the Czech Republic the Slovak Republic Hungary Romania all the countries that Yugoslavia dissolved into. What will be enough for this madman




IMO,, this won't be the cause of  a World War III  sorry to disappoint you.


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## JGalt

TemplarKormac said:


> I'm talking about the UN, not NATO


Fuck me. I misread your post.


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## AMart

Biden says hey man you that thing come on man.


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## EvilEyeFleegle

Putin announces Ukraine military operation, explosions heard


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## skye

toobfreak said:


> Wow!  I predicted it would happen yesterday, last week!  I was only a day off.



You predicted what....WW3?

That ain't happenig, not at  that level at least, my opinion.


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## TemplarKormac

JGalt said:


> Fuck me. I misread your post.


No worries. I quoted the wrong Article 5 so we're even.


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## JGalt

toobfreak said:


> Wow!  I predicted it would happen yesterday, last week!  I was only a day off.



A lot of people were predicting 2/22/22


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## AzogtheDefiler

Stann said:


> 9:15 p.m. Central standard Time ABC News special Russia has begun The invasion it's not just the two separatist States they're attacking all of the Ukraine. Putin has gone insane. Now there is the threat of world war III in the end of everything because of idiots, tyrants like him. Biden keeps saying he will not send troops to the Ukraine. But once Poland does and other European nations follow we will get involved.


That’s a nuclear war. That hopefully doesn’t happen.


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## EvilCat Breath

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Kiev under attack. China watching this and ready to take Taiwan. Russia/China alliance in full force. The Western Alliance better wake up.


There's a western alliance?  Who knew?


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## 1srelluc

EvilEyeFleegle said:


> Putin announces Ukraine military operation, explosions heard


Putin still has the red-ass over the break-up of the Soviet Union and I think it has become his driving force.

 I mean he is arguably the richest man in the world as far personal wealth goes so all he really has left is to do gather-up the wayward cubs of the Russian bear. 

I really don't think he has designs on the former Eastern Block countries that are now part of NATO unless pushed......Then it's game-on in the Baltic States.


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## Wyatt earp

skye said:


> IMO,, this won't be the cause of  a World War III  sorry to disappoint you.


Can we see your boobs? ( just in case we all get nuked tonight )


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## toobfreak

Stann said:


> No one wants war.



Biden wants war.  He is the cause of it all.  Putting a weak man like him in was bad enough, they didn't dare try this with Trump in office.  Then the world saw that Biden was a hapless clown the way he literally tripped over his own feet from beginning to end in Afghanistan, from grossly overestimating the Afghan army to the leaving, that showed Putin that NOW was the time to move, when the West was led by a fool like Biden whose worst threats are all on paper rather than the actual battlefield.

Democrats should have KNOWN this would happen with a suffering fool like Joe Bedpan in office but all they thought about was themselves instead of the country or the world.

How many more *hundreds of billions* will the Left's obsession with Trump Derangement System cost us this time?


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## Orangecat

Biden should challenge Putin to a push-up contest. That'll prove how savvy and fearless he is.


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## EvilCat Breath

Stann said:


> No one wants war. Today Putin is attacking the Ukraine. Tomorrow who else is in danger Poland again the Baltic states the Czech Republic the Slovak Republic Hungary Romania all the countries that Yugoslavia dissolved into. What will be enough for this madman


He is reconstituting the USSR.  And we are paying for it.


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## JGalt

Wyatt earp said:


> Can we see your boobs? ( just in case we all get nuked tonight )



She'd better hurry. 



> National Airborne Operations Center doomsday plane out from MacDill AFB, FL
> 
> \uD83C\uDDFA\uD83C\uDDF8 US Air Force
> E-4B Nightwatch
> 75-0125 CLUB22 pic.twitter.com/K6WmZR6gCc
> — CivMilAir ? (@CivMilAir) February 23, 2022


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## toobfreak

JGalt said:


> A lot of people were predicting 2/22/22



Actually, the last time I brought it up, I think I said Tuesday or shortly thereafter.  Putin is using the exact same strategy as when he took Crimea.  And Joe (and Obama) were running the show then too.

I'm starting to smell me a chinaman.


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## night_son

1srelluc said:


> Putin still has the red-ass over the break-up of the Soviet Union and I think it has become his driving force.
> 
> I mean he is arguably the richest man in the world as far personal wealth goes so all he really has left is to do gather-up the wayward cubs of the Russian bear.
> 
> I really don't think he has designs on the former Eastern Block countries that are now part of NATO unless pushed......Then it's game-on in the Baltic States.



Game on in the Baltic States is game over. Mushroom clouds and all that . . .


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## 1srelluc

toobfreak said:


> Biden wants war.  He is the cause of it all.  Putting a weak man like him in was bad enough, they didn't dare try this with Trump in office.  Then the world saw that Biden was a hapless clown the way he literally tripped over his own feet from beginning to end in Afghanistan, from grossly overestimating the Afghan army to the leaving, that showed Putin that NOW was the time to move, when the West was led by a fool like Biden whose worst threats are all on paper rather than the actual battlefield.
> 
> Democrats should have KNOWN this would happen with a suffering fool like Joe Bedpan in office but all they thought about was themselves instead of the country or the world.
> 
> How many more *hundreds of billions* will the Left's obsession with Trump Derangement System cost us this time?


Now they are telling us we need to give a fuck and sacrifice to protect the so-called "democracy" in Ukraine. Fuck that noise.


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## Rogue AI

TemplarKormac said:


> I'm talking about the UN, not NATO


Russia can and will veto any UN silliness.


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## toobfreak

Orangecat said:


> Biden should challenge Putin to a push-up contest. That'll prove how savvy and fearless he is.



That could only possibly serve to just confuse Joe farther.


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## night_son

toobfreak said:


> Biden wants war.  He is the cause of it all.  Putting a weak man like him in was bad enough, they didn't dare try this with Trump in office.  Then the world saw that Biden was a hapless clown the way he literally tripped over his own feet from beginning to end in Afghanistan, from grossly overestimating the Afghan army to the leaving, that showed Putin that NOW was the time to move, when the West was led by a fool like Biden whose worst threats are all on paper rather than the actual battlefield.
> 
> Democrats should have KNOWN this would happen with a suffering fool like Joe Bedpan in office but all they thought about was themselves instead of the country or the world.
> 
> How many more *hundreds of billions* will the Left's obsession with Trump Derangement System cost us this time?



Something feels . . . off. For two years nearly every nation on earth walked in lockstep with the COVID mandate/restriction madness. Now, all of a sudden, we're looking down the barrel of WWIII? Just doesn't add up, unless it was all pre-planned, scheduled ahead of time. If you've got sons (and daughters) of draft age, hide them in the basement. Just joking, or am I?


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## toobfreak

1srelluc said:


> Now they are telling us we need to give a fuck and sacrifice to protect the so-called "democracy" in Ukraine. Fuck that noise.



The LAST thing there is in Ukraine is democracy.  They are even worse there than Canada.


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## JGalt

This is the best link to watch what's unfolding:


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## AzogtheDefiler

How long before the Leftists blame Trump for this too….


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## Samofvt

Watching live coverage of the UN security council on SkyNews.

Ukraine just basically called bullshit on the fact that the Russian representative is presiding over that body.

And just to show how stupid and in-effectual the UN is, the rest of the chamber just kept quiet and starred off into space (over-jabbed?).

All was planned.  Next will be Taiwan and possibly others.  Lets go brandon will probably send hunter to advise on military hardware and collect their payment from putin and xi.


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## SavannahMann

What happened to all the RW assurances that Putin was not going into Ukraine and the claim that he was just proved how much of a liar Biden was?


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## JGalt

SavannahMann said:


> What happened to all the RW assurances that Putin was not going into Ukraine and the claim that he was just proved how much of a liar Biden was?



Who said that? It was Biden who called it a "minor incursion" first, wasn't it?


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## Rogue AI

SavannahMann said:


> What happened to all the RW assurances that Putin was not going into Ukraine and the claim that he was just proved how much of a liar Biden was?


We trusted Harris had it under control. What happened?


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## Samofvt

SavannahMann said:


> What happened to all the RW assurances that Putin was not going into Ukraine and the claim that he was just proved how much of a liar Biden was?


I'll admit, I was wrong.  I did not think Biden was so incredibly weak.  "Sanctions"?  lol  Now biden is backpedaling and says he's going to announce some more...tomorrow hahaha


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## Samofvt

RIP, Ukraine.  Sorry your neighbors were so weak and wouldn't help defend your sovereign borders.


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## shockedcanadian

I've been saying that the U.N is useless for a hell of a long time.  Just a look at their "Human Rights Council".  Trump said the same and CNN, MSNBC and so many said he was a threat.  Ditto for the E.U.  What is the point of the UN?  To fund boondoggles like the Paris Accord and to live a life of luxury on the taxpayers dime.

They are corrupt, they sold out International agencies and weakened America.

All of the world now sees that the U.N won't back them up, America is weakened and their technology stolen, or worse, GIVEN to the enemy.  Wall Street funded these communist nations and partied.  I've always said without American leadership the world will sit on its hansds.

Just as I warned you all when the BLM and alt-left were parroting communist mantra and blaming fake nazis in America fo your woes, *here come Putin blaming Nazi Nationalists for him going in. * Our own government did the same when naming the truckers. Great call.

The world never learns.  *The same idiots at CNN and in security agencies who have been wrong about everything for 30 years and who applaud the demise of freedom on people like myself, are the same useless idiots who are left speechless and stunned when a nation like Russia acts as they please.*

There is much more to come, China has all the technology wrapped up, the economic might and a close relationship with Russia, N Korea and Iran.

WW3 could be around the corner,* just who in the weak, feckless U.N will act militarily?* Russia doesn't need our money, they have it indirectly after we gave it to China. Congrats. That's their market fo oil and coal, in E.U dollars no less.

It's time for an entirely new International organization and it must be a "you are either with us or you are with the UN, you can't be in both".  The U.N is corrupt and compromised, all smoke and mirrors. They sit around today and read premade, useless words.

America walked softly when they should have been forceful as Trump was.  Macron and Merkel were not and ARE NOT allies of America and Western liberty.  Nor are the creeps in Canada who do what they did to me.

Wake up America, before it is too late.  Guys like Rubio, Pompeo, and yes, Trump, understand the world, your silver spooned idiots in NY and D.C, do NOT.

That is all, as you were.


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## blackhawk

So sanctions did not deter a dictator shocking that has always worked in the past. (sarcasm)


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## Samofvt

Keep your eyes out here at home, men.  Don't forget we had a 4-million-person breech of our border in the last year (that Biden ignored and flaunted court orders to stop).  God only knows who came in undetected, ready to do whatever bad people do when a war is going on.  They may wait until China makes it's move, so we may have a few days to stock up yet.


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## night_son

Samofvt said:


> Keep your eyes out here at home, men.  Don't forget we had a 4-million-person breech of our border in the last year (that Biden ignored and flaunted court orders to stop).  God only knows who came in undetected, ready to do whatever bad people do when a war is going on.  They may wait until China makes it's move, so we may have a few days to stock up yet.



During the Cold War the Soviet military had plans to infiltrate the US with backpack nuke wearing commandos. Makes for a great military thriller novel but I doubt we'll see anything quite like that.


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## Rogue AI

blackhawk said:


> So sanctions did not deter a dictator shocking that has always worked in the past. (sarcasm)


Sanctions became US foreign policy, it's just easier than actual diplomacy.  Simply the product of laziness and the inability of this administration to form a coherent and meaningful foreign policy.


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## RoshawnMarkwees

It’s like a surprise attack!!


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## Ringo

*Putin promised an immediate response to attempts to prevent the Russian Federation*

Russia will immediately respond to any attempts to prevent it, which will lead to serious consequences. Moscow is ready for any development of events, Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Thursday, February 24, in an emergency address to citizens. The broadcast was conducted on the YouTube channel "Russia 24".

The basis of the policy of the Russian Federation is freedom, this right should be enjoyed by everyone, including residents of Ukraine, the Russian leader believes.

He stressed that the actions of the Russian Federation are not connected with the infringement of Ukraine's interests, but with the protection of itself from "those who took Ukraine hostage."

No one should have any doubt that a direct attack on Russia will lead to defeat and terrible consequences for the potential aggressor, the president said.

"As for the military sphere, modern Russia, even after the collapse of the USSR and the loss of a significant part of its nuclear potential, is today one of the most powerful nuclear powers. And moreover, it has certain advantages in a number of new types of weapons. In this regard, no one should have any doubt that a direct attack on Russia will lead to defeat and terrible consequences for the potential aggressor," he said.

The fate of Russia is in the safe hands of its people, which means that the goals will be achieved, the country's security is guaranteed, Putin summed up.

"It is strength and readiness to fight that underlie independence and sovereignty, and are the necessary foundation on which one can build one's future," the Russian leader noted.

On the eve of February 23, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov announced the appeal of the heads of the DPR and LPR Denis Pushilin and Leonid Pasechnik to Russian President Vladimir Putin with a request to help repel the increased aggression of Ukrainian security forces to prevent a humanitarian catastrophe and civilian casualties.

As the representative of the Russian leader stressed, the corresponding appeal was made on the basis of articles 3 and 4 of the treaties on friendship, cooperation and mutual assistance between Russia and the republics, which were signed on February 21 as a result of Putin's recognition of the independence of the DPR and the LPR.

The situation on the contact line in Donbass escalated on February 17. In the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics, intense shelling by Ukrainian security forces, including from heavy weapons, was reported. The republics announced a general mobilization and evacuation of civilians to the territory of Russia.

Vladimir Putin described the shelling of the territories of Donbass by the Armed Forces of Ukraine as genocide against the population of the regions. On February 18, a similar opinion was expressed by the official representative of the Russian Foreign Ministry, Maria Zakharova, noting the obscene attitude of Kiev towards the residents of Donbass if they "share the culture of another country", which can be observed for seven years.

Since 2014, the Ukrainian authorities have been conducting a military operation against the residents of Donbass, who refused to recognize the results of the coup and the new government in Ukraine. At the same time, Kiev blames Moscow for the current situation. Russia has repeatedly stated that it is not a party to the internal Ukrainian conflict.
_
Russian President Vladimir Putin called on the Ukrainian military in Donbass to lay down their arms. He stated this in an emergency morning address to the Russians, broadcast by the TV channel "Russia 1", where he announced the beginning of a special military operation in the Donbass.

"Dear comrades, your fathers, grandfathers and great-grandfathers did not fight to defend our Homeland, so that today's neo-Nazis seized power in Ukraine, took an oath of allegiance to the Ukrainian people, and not to the anti-people junta, which robs and mocks these very people. Do not follow her criminal orders. I urge you to immediately lay down your weapons and go home. All servicemen of the Ukrainian army who fulfill this requirement will be able to freely leave the combat zone and return to their families," Putin said.

The President also warned that all responsibility for possible bloodshed will be on the conscience of the Ukrainian authorities. He also added that those who decide to interfere with Russia and create threats to the Russian people will face consequences that have never been seen before.


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## JGalt

Boom!


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## Missourian




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## Rambunctious

This would not be happening if Trump were still in office....


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## San Souci

EvilCat Breath said:


> We are partly dependent on Russia for our energy.  As always, enemy democrats preen, we pay the price.
> 
> The air strikes have started.  Russia is shelling missiles.  I have heard idiotic, stupid people say the situation has spiraled out of control.  Not true.  Putin has it firmly in control.


True. Biden sucks. Russia did NOT get out of line when we had a REAL President.


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## shockedcanadian

Ringo said:


> *Putin promised an immediate response to attempts to prevent the Russian Federation*
> 
> Russia will immediately respond to any attempts to prevent it, which will lead to serious consequences. Moscow is ready for any development of events, Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Thursday, February 24, in an emergency address to citizens. The broadcast was conducted on the YouTube channel "Russia 24".
> 
> The basis of the policy of the Russian Federation is freedom, this right should be enjoyed by everyone, including residents of Ukraine, the Russian leader believes.
> 
> He stressed that the actions of the Russian Federation are not connected with the infringement of Ukraine's interests, but with the protection of itself from "those who took Ukraine hostage."
> 
> No one should have any doubt that a direct attack on Russia will lead to defeat and terrible consequences for the potential aggressor, the president said.
> 
> "As for the military sphere, modern Russia, even after the collapse of the USSR and the loss of a significant part of its nuclear potential, is today one of the most powerful nuclear powers. And moreover, it has certain advantages in a number of new types of weapons. In this regard, no one should have any doubt that a direct attack on Russia will lead to defeat and terrible consequences for the potential aggressor," he said.
> 
> The fate of Russia is in the safe hands of its people, which means that the goals will be achieved, the country's security is guaranteed, Putin summed up.
> 
> "It is strength and readiness to fight that underlie independence and sovereignty, and are the necessary foundation on which one can build one's future," the Russian leader noted.
> 
> On the eve of February 23, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov announced the appeal of the heads of the DPR and LPR Denis Pushilin and Leonid Pasechnik to Russian President Vladimir Putin with a request to help repel the increased aggression of Ukrainian security forces to prevent a humanitarian catastrophe and civilian casualties.
> 
> As the representative of the Russian leader stressed, the corresponding appeal was made on the basis of articles 3 and 4 of the treaties on friendship, cooperation and mutual assistance between Russia and the republics, which were signed on February 21 as a result of Putin's recognition of the independence of the DPR and the LPR.
> 
> The situation on the contact line in Donbass escalated on February 17. In the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics, intense shelling by Ukrainian security forces, including from heavy weapons, was reported. The republics announced a general mobilization and evacuation of civilians to the territory of Russia.
> 
> Vladimir Putin described the shelling of the territories of Donbass by the Armed Forces of Ukraine as genocide against the population of the regions. On February 18, a similar opinion was expressed by the official representative of the Russian Foreign Ministry, Maria Zakharova, noting the obscene attitude of Kiev towards the residents of Donbass if they "share the culture of another country", which can be observed for seven years.
> 
> Since 2014, the Ukrainian authorities have been conducting a military operation against the residents of Donbass, who refused to recognize the results of the coup and the new government in Ukraine. At the same time, Kiev blames Moscow for the current situation. Russia has repeatedly stated that it is not a party to the internal Ukrainian conflict.



He sounds like a man who bided his time, angry and wanting revenge for the West squeezing Russia.  Now he goes in under the pretense of "Ukranian nazi nationalists", using the far left own rhetoric.

I've said it before, we are living in the age of the weakest Western leadership in history, that includes those who sat and watched as Germany moved in.

As my dad once told me "I'd rather have a gun and fight over there than fight them on my own land".

Will he stop at Ukraine?  Maybe for a short while.  Even if he doesn't conquer the entire nation.  This is why unpredictable leaders are so dangerous, be they on our side or theirs.


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## Zincwarrior

EvilEyeFleegle said:


> Putin announces Ukraine military operation, explosions heard


Attacks occurring in major Ukraine cities now. The bombing has started.




__





						Loading…
					





					www.washingtonpost.com


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## Ringo

shockedcanadian said:


> Now he goes in under the pretense of "Ukranian nazi nationalists", using the far left own rhetoric.
> 
> Will he stop at Ukraine?


It is not pretense.  He stops, when safety of Russia will be ensured


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## Missourian

Rambunctious said:


> This would not be happening if Trump were still in office....



There's no confidence in Dunce-in-Chief Biden.  Let's hope and pray they don't let him do anything stupid... which for him is anything he believes is a good idea.


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## EvilCat Breath

The weakest leadership in history.  Ready for picking.


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## Zincwarrior

Ringo said:


> It is not pretense.  He stops, when safety of Russia will be ensured


Quiet Russobot. Your hero has re-awakened NATO and your low rent economy can't handle an arm's race.


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## MisterBeale

TemplarKormac said:


> Ukraine is a UN member. The US is bound by article 5 to assist. If not, the UN is for all intents and purposes, defunct.


Which Chapter?

The UN Charter is a non-binding treaty, unless a unanimous vote can be had in the Security Council. . . if I remember correctly?   

IMO?  I don't think you will get that from Russia and China who are both parts of the Security Council.

Chapter II, Article V Membership?

Article 5 /
"A Member of the United Nations against which
preventive or enforcement action has been taken
by the Security Council may be suspended from
the exercise of the rights and privileges of mem-
bership by the General Assembly upon the recom-
mendation of the Security Council. The exercise
of these rights and privileges may be restored by
the Security Council."


			https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/CTC/uncharter.pdf


----------



## TemplarKormac

Rogue AI said:


> Russia can and will veto any UN silliness.


Not if they eject them from the UN.


----------



## Rogue AI

TemplarKormac said:


> Not if they eject them from the UN.


They would veto that too.


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> Which Chapter?
> 
> The UN Charter is a non-binding treaty, unless a unanimous vote can be had in the Security Council. . . if I remember correctly?
> 
> IMO?  I don't think you will get that from Russia and China who are both parts of the Security Council.
> 
> Chapter II, Article V Membership?
> 
> Article 5 /
> "A Member of the United Nations against which
> preventive or enforcement action has been taken
> by the Security Council may be suspended from
> the exercise of the rights and privileges of mem-
> bership by the General Assembly upon the recom-
> mendation of the Security Council. The exercise
> of these rights and privileges may be restored by
> the Security Council."
> 
> 
> https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/CTC/uncharter.pdf



I would gather Russia's powers would be suspended by the council first. And I was thinking of NATO Article 5, but in my error, I may have landed on a mechanism by which Russia can be punished.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Rogue AI said:


> They would veto that too.



How can they veto their own expulsion from the UN?

Egads. The UN is a cancer.


----------



## TemplarKormac

JGalt said:


> Boom!
> 
> View attachment 605880


What you see there is Biden's foreign policy.


----------



## Zincwarrior

MisterBeale said:


> Which Chapter?
> 
> The UN Charter is a non-binding treaty, unless a unanimous vote can be had in the Security Council. . . if I remember correctly?
> 
> IMO?  I don't think you will get that from Russia and China who are both parts of the Security Council.
> 
> Chapter II, Article V Membership?
> 
> Article 5 /
> "A Member of the United Nations against which
> preventive or enforcement action has been taken
> by the Security Council may be suspended from
> the exercise of the rights and privileges of mem-
> bership by the General Assembly upon the recom-
> mendation of the Security Council. The exercise
> of these rights and privileges may be restored by
> the Security Council."
> 
> 
> https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/CTC/uncharter.pdf


I think he meant NATO, which would be wrong.

If it were NATO, the nuclear bombers would be in the air already.


----------



## Missourian

TemplarKormac said:


> Not if they eject them from the UN.


If you're waiting for the UN to save you... ask 800,000 Rwandan Tutsis how that plan worked out...


----------



## TemplarKormac

TemplarKormac said:


> How can they veto their own expulsion from the UN?
> 
> Egads. The UN is a cancer.







__





						Frequently asked questions
					

Frequently asked questions of the United Nations Office at Vienna



					www.unov.org


----------



## MisterBeale

Stann said:


> 9:15 p.m. Central standard Time ABC News special Russia has begun The invasion it's not just the two separatist States they're attacking all of the Ukraine. Putin has gone insane. Now there is the threat of world war III in the end of everything because of idiots, tyrants like him. Biden keeps saying he will not send troops to the Ukraine. But once Poland does and other European nations follow we will get involved.


If you are restricting your propaganda to just ABC?

You are probably getting a really, REALLY biased picture.







Hard West

Medium West

East


----------



## TemplarKormac

Zincwarrior said:


> I think he meant NATO, which would be wrong.



No, Ukraine is a UN member state. What I was looking for was Article 6 of the UN Charter.





__





						Frequently asked questions
					

Frequently asked questions of the United Nations Office at Vienna



					www.unov.org


----------



## Death-Ninja

Putin has for years explained how important Ukraine is to Russian national security, this only happened because of fascist democrats/rinos/China cheating a depraved psychopath into the white house, this would not have happened under Trump. Indeed, if Trump had not been repeatedly subjected to coup's, and he had had an actual loyal administration, one loyal to the United States and its president, and not to China, and the tech billionaires, then Trump fully intended to make a friend of Russia & Putin. 

This is precisely why China and the traitors in the US federal government whom China owns, specifically the leadership in both party's, and both houses of the congress, along with the state department, and the Orwellian national security council, destroyed Trump's presidency, by launching a bio-attack and shutting down the United States and its white hot economy, and after years of baseless, grossly irresponsible abuse of Russia, succeeded in forcing Russia into the waiting arms of communist China, Russia friends with US was a gross threat to China and the billionaires who built its economy!

Putin is not trying to regrow the Soviet Empire, he was all but baited into this by a feckless psychopath, whose word is worth the dog shit on bottom of a shoe, if he had a treaty declaring Ukraine a neutral nation, excluded from ever attaining Nato membership, this would not likely have happened... This is the consequence of cheating a known psychopathic reprobate into the white house, pray Biden is swiftly removed, because Biden is a traitor, and he always has been a traitor, selling out US national security for his tens of millions, he has never had a real job in his entire life, yet he worth several hundred million dollars!


----------



## MisterBeale

TemplarKormac said:


> I would gather Russia's powers would be suspended by the council first. And I was thinking of NATO Article 5, but in my error, I may have landed on a mechanism by which Russia can be punished.


Why not have the US be punished?

Why not have Ukraine be punished?

The reason for the invasion was because diplomacy failed.


----------



## Rambunctious

Missourian said:


> There's no confidence in Dunce-in-Chief Biden.  Let's hope and pray they don't let him do anything stupid... which for him is anything he believes is a good idea.


Biden has been around a long time...we all know that he is one stubborn man and hates to admit that he was wrong...he will never change course no matter what anyone says...in fact asking him to do so will just make him dig his heels in deeper....

We are screwed.... we are going to pay for this idiots lack of ability to do the job....


----------



## AzogtheDefiler




----------



## Ringo

British Defense Minister: "Unfortunately, we have an annoying opponent in the person of Putin, who completely broke the chain." "the UK has 1,000 people on standby to respond to threats." "The Scottish Guard kicked the ass of Tsar Nicholas I in 1853 in the Crimea. We can always do it again." "Tsar Nicholas I made the same mistake as Putin... he had no friends, no alliances." The Minister made a speech against the background of a painting depicting the Inkerman battle of the Crimean War.

The Russian Defense Ministry responded to the words of the British Minister of War about the Crimean War

The words of the head of the British Ministry of Defense Ben Wallace about the events of the Crimean War are nothing more than mythology, according to the official representative of the Russian Ministry of Defense Igor Konashenkov.

Earlier, Wallace said that Britain could at any moment "kick" Russia, like the Scottish Guards regiment to Emperor Nicholas I during the Crimean War.

Konashenkov reminded the British servicemen that the Scottish regiment "suffered very bloody losses" and "did not win any victories."

"The Balaklava battle of the Crimean War on October 25, 1854 went down in history not at all thanks to the perseverance of the Scottish 93rd regiment, about which Wallace was so drunkenly telling. The only feat of this unit was that he simply did not escape, like the others, from the onslaught of the Russian cavalry," the representative of the department said.

According to him, other events entered the history of the Balaklava Battle much more vividly: Russian gunners destroyed an entire aristocratic English light cavalry brigade under the command of Lord Cardigan in just 20 minutes.

"It was this "feat" of the British in the Crimean War that enriched all the languages of the world and military textbooks with the concept of "cannon fodder," Konashenkov stressed.

The representative of the Ministry of Defense noted that not so long ago, the head of the British Foreign Ministry, while in Moscow, "already demonstrated her wonderful knowledge of the geography of Russia." Therefore, Wallace's public deepening into the history of Russia is no longer surprising, he added.

"We recommend that British servicemen study well not only the geography of Russia, but also its history. In order not to enrich our common military history with our lives for the sake of poorly educated British politicians," Konashenkov concluded.


----------



## MisterBeale

Zincwarrior said:


> I think he meant NATO, which would be wrong.
> 
> If it were NATO, the nuclear bombers would be in the air already.


. . . but Ukraine is not part of NATO.  So that is irrelevant.


----------



## Rambunctious

MisterBeale said:


> Why not have the US be punished?
> 
> Why not have Ukraine be punished?
> 
> The reason for the invasion was because diplomacy failed.


The reason for the invasion is because we have a weak leader....


----------



## TemplarKormac

Missourian said:


> If you're waiting for the UN to save you... ask 800,000 Rwandan Tutsis how that plan worked out...


It's kinda hard to say things tongue in cheek on this board without being taken seriously. I know full well the west has no balls to eject a founding member of the UN out of the alliance.


----------



## Zincwarrior

MisterBeale said:


> . . . but Ukraine is not part of NATO.  So that is irrelevant.


That's what I typed.


----------



## Rogue AI

TemplarKormac said:


> How can they veto their own expulsion from the UN?
> 
> Egads. The UN is a cancer.


Read the charter, any member of the Permanent Security Council can veto ANYTHING. Plus China would veto such a thing even if it was possible.


----------



## Ringo

Zincwarrior said:


> Your hero has re-awakened NATO





			https://i.gifer.com/16SV.mp4


----------



## Stann

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> He cannot feel secure with the threat from the Ukraine. He is declaring a military operation against Ukraine...war...
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/1496678843981209600
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia attacks Ukraine as defiant Putin warns US, NATO
> 
> 
> MOSCOW (AP) — Russian troops launched their anticipated attack on Ukraine on Thursday, as President Vladimir Putin cast aside international condemnation and sanctions, warning other countries that any attempt to interfere would lead to “consequences you have never seen.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com


Remember his demands he wanted NATO out of all of Eastern Europe. Ukraine is just the start for this maniac. Next he will attack all the nations of the former Soviet block Eastern Nations. He is the threat,;  not the Russian people.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Rogue AI said:


> Read the charter, any member of the Permanent Security Council can veto ANYTHING. Plus China would veto such a thing even if it was possible.


Turns out Article 27 would prevent Russia from voting if it happens to be involved in a dispute with another UN member.

Article 27, Clause 3.

"Decisions of the Security Council on all other matters shall be made by an affirmative vote of nine members including the concurring votes of the permanent members; _provided that, in decisions under Chapter VI, and under paragraph 3 of Article 52, a party to a dispute shall abstain from voting."_

However, China would veto it. They would then be violating Article 52 paragraph 3 of the charter, which requires pacific (peaceful) resolutions between two member states.  China would be interfering with that, and as such could be construed as a party to the conflict.


----------



## Ringo

Stann said:


> Remember his demands he wanted NATO out of all of Eastern Europe. Ukraine is just the start for this maniac.


No, Ukraine without nazies would be enough for now. And cleaning up going on.
Now every resident of Donetsk closes his account for the eight-year strikes of the Ukrainian Nazis on their cities. There is no need to hold back now.


----------



## San Souci

EvilCat Breath said:


> The weakest leadership in history.  Ready for picking.


If the Repubs win both houses ,it will be time to impeach both Biden and Pig Harris.


----------



## JGalt

Ringo said:


> No, Ukraine without nazies would be enough for now. And cleaning up going on.



Nazis? There are Germans in Ukraine?


----------



## Rogue AI

TemplarKormac said:


> Turns out Article 27 would prevent Russia from voting if it happens to be involved in a dispute with another UN member.
> 
> Article 27, Clause 3.
> 
> "Decisions of the Security Council on all other matters shall be made by an affirmative vote of nine members including the concurring votes of the permanent members; _provided that, in decisions under Chapter VI, and under paragraph 3 of Article 52, a party to a dispute shall abstain from voting."_


That does not apply to the five permanent members. Plus China still wouldn't allow it.


----------



## EvilCat Breath

San Souci said:


> If the Repubs win both houses ,it will be time to impeach both Biden and Pig Harris.


Get a republican speaker and you have a deal.  But that couldn't happen before November.  By then we will be in some serious, serious trouble.


----------



## Ringo

JGalt said:


> Nazis? There are Germans in Ukraine?


Really? That's your question?|


----------



## MisterBeale

Rambunctious said:


> The reason for the invasion is because we have a weak leader....


----------



## TemplarKormac

Rogue AI said:


> That does not apply to the five permanent members. Plus China still wouldn't allow it.


I am reading relevant parts of the charter now. But I don't see how Russia or China could be exempt from the rules simply because they are founding members. If a board of directors can fire a CEO, the majority of the UNESCO members can (or should be able to) expel Russia for invading and China for standing by and doing nothing.


----------



## San Souci

EvilCat Breath said:


> Get a republican speaker and you have a deal.  But that couldn't happen before November.  By then we will be in some serious, serious trouble.


Already are. I was 12 during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Kennedy caused that by showing weakness in the Bay of Pigs incident. Almost caused a Nuke War. Biden is FAR weaker than Kennedy.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Okay then, exceptional circumstances must be declared by the other 7 members of UNESCO to expel Russia. Would there be any way to get around this?


----------



## Rogue AI

TemplarKormac said:


> I am reading relevant parts of the charter now. But I don't see how Russia or China could be exempt from the rules simply because they are founding members. If a board of directors can fire a CEO, the majority of the UNESCO members can expel Russia for invading and China for standing by and doing nothing.


Faster to read up on the Korean War and the UN. You will find everything cited as it applied to a real world situation.  

The veto power of permanent members is absolute, by design, for situations like this.


----------



## Ringo

*From Putin's statement*

In March 2021, Ukraine adopted a new Military Strategy. This document is almost entirely devoted to the confrontation with Russia, aims to draw foreign states into a conflict with our country. The strategy suggests the organization in the Russian Crimea and on the territory of Donbass, in fact, a terrorist underground. The outlines of the alleged war are also spelled out in it, and it should end, as it seems to today's Kiev strategists, I will quote further – "with the assistance of the international community on favorable terms for Ukraine." And also, as they say today in Kiev, I am also quoting here, listen more carefully, please – "with the military support of the world community in the geopolitical confrontation with the Russian Federation." In fact, this is nothing more than preparation for military operations against our country – against Russia.

We also know that statements have already been made that Ukraine is going to create its own nuclear weapons, and this is not empty bravado. Ukraine does indeed have Soviet nuclear technologies and means of delivering such weapons, including aviation, as well as operational-tactical missiles "Tochka-U", also of Soviet design, whose range exceeds 100 kilometers. But they will do more, it's only a matter of time. There are groundwork from the Soviet era.

Thus, it will be much easier for Ukraine to acquire tactical nuclear weapons than for some other states, I will not name them now, actually leading such developments, especially in the case of technological support from abroad. And we shouldn't rule that out either.

With the appearance of weapons of mass destruction in Ukraine, the situation in the world, in Europe, especially for us, for Russia, will change dramatically. We cannot but react to this real danger, especially, I repeat, that Western patrons can facilitate the appearance of such weapons in Ukraine in order to create another threat to our country. We see how persistently the military pumping of the Kiev regime is being carried out. The United States alone, since 2014, has allocated billions of dollars for these purposes, including the supply of weapons, equipment, and training of specialists. In recent months, Western weapons have been coming to Ukraine in a continuous stream, demonstratively, in front of the whole world. The activities of the armed forces and special services of Ukraine are led by foreign advisers, we know this well.

In recent years, under the pretext of exercises, military contingents of NATO countries have been almost constantly present on the territory of Ukraine. The control system of the Ukrainian troops has already been integrated with the NATO ones. This means that the command of the Ukrainian armed forces, even individual units and subunits, can be directly carried out from the NATO headquarters.

The United States and NATO have begun the shameless development of the territory of Ukraine as a theater of potential military operations. Regular joint exercises have a clear anti-Russian orientation. Last year alone, more than 23 thousand servicemen and over a thousand pieces of equipment participated in them.

A law has already been adopted on the admission of the armed forces of other states to the territory of Ukraine in 2022 to participate in multinational exercises. It is clear that we are talking primarily about NATO troops. And in the coming year, at least ten such joint maneuvers are planned.

It is obvious that such events serve as a cover for the rapid buildup of the NATO military group on the territory of Ukraine. Moreover, the network of airfields modernized with the help of the Americans - Boryspil, Ivano-Frankivsk, Chuguev, Odessa, and so on - is able to ensure the transfer of military units in the shortest possible time. The airspace of Ukraine is open for flights of strategic and reconnaissance aircraft of the United States, unmanned aerial vehicles that are used to monitor the territory of Russia.

I will add that the Center of Naval Operations built by the Americans in Ochakov allows for the actions of NATO ships, including their use of precision weapons against the Russian Black Sea Fleet and our infrastructure on the entire Black Sea coast. At one time, the United States intended to create similar facilities in the Crimea, but the Crimeans and Sevastopol residents thwarted these plans. We will always remember this.

I repeat, today such a center has been deployed, already deployed in Ochakov. Let me remind you that in the XVIII century, Alexander Suvorov's soldiers fought for this city. Thanks to their courage, it became part of Russia. At the same time, in the XVIII century, the lands of the Black Sea region, annexed to Russia as a result of the wars with the Ottoman Empire, were called Novorossiya. Now these milestones of history are being tried to be forgotten, as are the names of state military figures of the Russian Empire, without whose labors modern Ukraine would not have many large cities and even the very exit to the Black Sea.

Recently, a monument to Alexander Suvorov was demolished in Poltava. What can I say? Are you abandoning your own past? From the so-called colonial legacy of the Russian Empire? Well, then be consistent here.

Further. I would like to note that article 17 of the Constitution of Ukraine does not allow the deployment of foreign military bases on its territory. But it turned out that this is just a convention that can be easily circumvented.

NATO training missions have been deployed in Ukraine. These, in fact, are already foreign military bases. They just called the base a "mission" and that's it.

Kiev has long proclaimed a strategic course for joining NATO. Yes, of course, every country has the right to choose its own security system and conclude military alliances. And everything seems to be like this, if not for one "but". International documents explicitly state the principle of equal and indivisible security, which, as is known, includes obligations not to strengthen one's security at the expense of the security of other States. I can refer here to the 1999 OSCE Charter for European Security, adopted in Istanbul, and the 2010 OSCE Astana Declaration.

In other words, the choice of ways to ensure security should not pose a threat to other states, and Ukraine's accession to NATO is a direct threat to Russia's security.

Let me remind you that back in April 2008, at the Bucharest summit of the North Atlantic Alliance, the United States pushed through the decision that Ukraine and, by the way, Georgia would become NATO members. Many European allies of the United States were already well aware of all the risks of such a prospect, but were forced to accept the will of a senior partner. The Americans simply used them to carry out a pronounced anti-Russian policy.

A number of member states of the Alliance are still very skeptical about the appearance of Ukraine in NATO. At the same time, we receive a signal from some European capitals, saying: "What are you going through? It's not going to happen literally tomorrow." Actually, our American partners are also talking about this. "Well," we reply– "if not tomorrow, then the day after tomorrow. What does this change in historical perspective? In fact, nothing."

Moreover, we know the position and words of the leadership of the United States that active hostilities in the east of Ukraine do not exclude the possibility of this country joining NATO if it can meet the criteria of the North Atlantic Alliance and defeat corruption.

At the same time, they try to convince us over and over again that NATO is a peaceful and purely defensive alliance. They say there are no threats to Russia. Again, they offer to take my word for it. But we know the real price of such words well. In 1990, when the issue of the unification of Germany was discussed, the Soviet leadership was promised by the United States that there would be no extension of jurisdiction


----------



## TemplarKormac

United Nations Security Council veto power - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## TemplarKormac

Rogue AI said:


> Faster to read up on the Korean War and the UN. You will find everything cited as it applied to a real world situation.
> 
> The veto power of permanent members is absolute, by design, for situations like this.



I just posted something, though not concrete or ever tried, that could be a way to circumvent a veto. See previous post.

I will look for resolutions passed by the UN during the Korean War, though.


----------



## Ringo

The Russian Defense Ministry reported on the disabling of the military infrastructure of Ukraine, including military airfields, RIA Novosti reports.

According to the ministry, military infrastructure, air defense facilities, military airfields and military aviation of Ukraine are being disabled by high-precision means of destruction. 
However, the Russian forces do not inflict any missile air or artillery strikes on Ukrainian cities.


----------



## TemplarKormac

TemplarKormac said:


> Ukraine is a UN member. The US is bound by article 5 to assist. If not, the UN is for all intents and purposes, defunct.
> 
> (EDIT: This post was made in error. I confused this with NATO Article 5, and Ukraine is not a member of NATO. However, Article 6, Article 27, Article 52 Paragraph 6, and UN Resolution 377 could provide a way for Russia to be expelled from the UN, maybe without China's input)


So people can see the edit.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Rogue AI said:


> The veto power of permanent members is absolute, by design, for situations like this.


Is it?





__





						United Nations General Assembly Resolution 377 - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




" It was adopted 3 November 1950, after fourteen days of Assembly discussions, by a vote of 52 to 5, with 2 abstentions.[2] The resolution was designed to provide the UN with an alternative avenue for action when at least one P5 member is using its veto to obstruct the Security Council from carrying out its functions mandated by the UN Charter."


----------



## Rogue AI

TemplarKormac said:


> I just posted something, though not concrete or ever tried, that could be a way to circumvent a veto. See previous post.
> 
> I will look for resolutions passed by the UN during the Korean War, though.


Procedure aside, how would ejecting Russia serve any good? If they are not a member they are not bound by anything the UN would decide. It would make things worse.


----------



## Silver Cat

Do you remember aggression of NATO countries against Serbia in 1999?


----------



## TemplarKormac




----------



## Missourian

President Biden shared details with his late evening phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

"President Zelenskyy reached out to me tonight and we just finished speaking. I condemned this unprovoked and unjustified attack by Russian military forces," Biden said.

Biden continued:

"I briefed him on the steps we are taking to rally international condemnation, including tonight at the United Nations Security Council.





__





						Russian forces attacking Kyiv, explosions heard in Ukrainian capital: LIVE UPDATES
					

Russian forces have closed to within 20 miles of Ukraine's capital, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told lawmakers.




					www.foxnews.com


----------



## MisterBeale

TemplarKormac said:


> Okay then, exceptional circumstances must be declared by the other 7 members of UNESCO to expel Russia. Would there be any way to get around this?


UNESCO isn't charged with peace and security, that isn't their jurisdiction.

But no, there is no way to get around a permanent members security council member's veto.


Security Council​The Security Council is charged with maintaining peace and security among countries. While other organs of the UN can only make "recommendations" to member states, the Security Council has the power to make binding decisions that member states have agreed to carry out, under the terms of Charter Article 25.[102] The decisions of the council are known as United Nations Security Council resolutions.[103]

The Security Council is made up of fifteen member states, consisting of five permanent members—China, France, Russia, the United Kingdom, and the United States—and ten non-permanent members elected for two-year terms by the General Assembly: Estonia (term ends 2021), India (2022), Indonesia (2022), Mexico (2022), Niger (2021), Norway (2022), Saint Vincent and the Grenadines (2021), Tunisia (2021), and Vietnam (2021).[104] The five permanent members hold veto power over UN resolutions, allowing a permanent member to block adoption of a resolution, though not debate. The ten temporary seats are held for two-year terms, with five member states per year voted in by the General Assembly on a regional basis.[105] The presidency of the Security Council rotates alphabetically each month.[106]








						United Nations - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				











						United Nations Security Council - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Veto power​Main article: United Nations Security Council veto power

See also: List of vetoed United Nations Security Council resolutions

Under Article 27 of the UN Charter, Security Council decisions on all substantive matters require the affirmative votes of three-fifths (i.e. nine) of the members. A negative vote or "veto" by a permanent member prevents adoption of a proposal, even if it has received the required votes.[64] Abstention is not regarded as a veto in most cases, though all five permanent members must actively concur to amend the UN Charter or to recommend the admission of a new UN member state.[55] Procedural matters are not subject to a veto, so the veto cannot be used to avoid discussion of an issue. The same holds for certain decisions that directly regard permanent members.[64] A majority of vetoes are used not in critical international security situations, but for purposes such as blocking a candidate for Secretary-General or the admission of a member state.[71]


----------



## Silver Cat

And what do they sing now? 
"Odessa will welcome us, Kiev will welcome us, and if necessary - Warsaw will also welcome us".


----------



## TemplarKormac

Rogue AI said:


> Procedure aside, how would ejecting Russia serve any good? If they are not a member they are not bound by anything the UN would decide. It would make things worse.



Well, a founding member is invading a member nation. That should be all the reason needed, or else the UN Charter is just a collection of paper.

I would gather it would give the UN more freedom to act against Russia. Expel Russia, invoke 377 to circumvent a Chinese veto.

If Russia is not a member state anymore, the charter would neither apply to them, or to members of the UN in taking action against Russia.

Levity, maybe?


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> UNESCO isn't charged with peace and security, that isn't their jurisdiction.
> 
> But no, there is no way to get around a permanent members security council member's veto.
> 
> 
> Security Council​The Security Council is charged with maintaining peace and security among countries. While other organs of the UN can only make "recommendations" to member states, the Security Council has the power to make binding decisions that member states have agreed to carry out, under the terms of Charter Article 25.[102] The decisions of the council are known as United Nations Security Council resolutions.[103]
> 
> The Security Council is made up of fifteen member states, consisting of five permanent members—China, France, Russia, the United Kingdom, and the United States—and ten non-permanent members elected for two-year terms by the General Assembly: Estonia (term ends 2021), India (2022), Indonesia (2022), Mexico (2022), Niger (2021), Norway (2022), Saint Vincent and the Grenadines (2021), Tunisia (2021), and Vietnam (2021).[104] The five permanent members hold veto power over UN resolutions, allowing a permanent member to block adoption of a resolution, though not debate. The ten temporary seats are held for two-year terms, with five member states per year voted in by the General Assembly on a regional basis.[105] The presidency of the Security Council rotates alphabetically each month.[106]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations Security Council - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Veto power​Main article: United Nations Security Council veto power
> 
> See also: List of vetoed United Nations Security Council resolutions
> 
> Under Article 27 of the UN Charter, Security Council decisions on all substantive matters require the affirmative votes of three-fifths (i.e. nine) of the members. A negative vote or "veto" by a permanent member prevents adoption of a proposal, even if it has received the required votes.[64] Abstention is not regarded as a veto in most cases, though all five permanent members must actively concur to amend the UN Charter or to recommend the admission of a new UN member state.[55] Procedural matters are not subject to a veto, so the veto cannot be used to avoid discussion of an issue. The same holds for certain decisions that directly regard permanent members.[64] A majority of vetoes are used not in critical international security situations, but for purposes such as blocking a candidate for Secretary-General or the admission of a member state.[71]



See resolution 377 for my rebuttal.


----------



## MisterBeale

TemplarKormac said:


> Is it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations General Assembly Resolution 377 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> " It was adopted 3 November 1950, after fourteen days of Assembly discussions, by a vote of 52 to 5, with 2 abstentions.[2] The resolution was designed to provide the UN with an alternative avenue for action when at least one P5 member is using its veto to obstruct the Security Council from carrying out its functions mandated by the UN Charter."


Nice find!

. . . however, given the history of this particular conflict?

By the time the global diplomats actually fully investigate both sides of this conflict, and decide to judiciously act upon the merits of the case? 

IMO?  It will probably be over.  

From the way you have been posting, you necessarily believe that the UN needs to intervene on Ukraine's side?  Which, I am not necessarily disagreeing with. . . 

. . . however, there also, if the international bureaucrats looked into this, might be A LOT of truth as to why the invasion occurred in the first place, and why the western and Ukrainian side refused to resolve those issues through diplomacy. . . so?   I noticed of all of the twelve times it was invoked? Only once was it's use ever successful.

. . . and given Germany, France and China, all believe that Russia DID indeed have some legitimate grievances for invasion?  I doubt that investigations into why diplomatic negotiations continued to not yield results would look very good upon either the United States or the puppet regime in Kiev.


----------



## Rogue AI

TemplarKormac said:


> Well, a founding member is invading a member nation. That should be all the reason needed, or else the UN Charter is just a collection of paper.
> 
> I would gather it would give the UN more freedom to act against Russia. Expel Russia, invoke 377 to circumvent a Chinese veto.
> 
> If Russia is not a member state anymore, the charter would neither apply to them, or to members of the UN in taking action against Russia.
> 
> Levity, maybe?



Under what auspices would you use 377 to remove China's say? They aren't involved in this. What you suggest makes the whole purpose of the UN worthless.


----------



## EvilCat Breath

San Souci said:


> Already are. I was 12 during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Kennedy caused that by showing weakness in the Bay of Pigs incident. Almost caused a Nuke War. Biden is FAR weaker than Kennedy.


Kennedy realized his mistake and grew a pair.  Fuck Biden can't be bothered to get out of bed.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Rogue AI said:


> Under what auspices would you use 377 to remove China's say? They aren't involved in this. What you suggest makes the whole purpose of the UN worthless.



Their veto would be easily seen as an attempt to deadlock the council. Everyone else in the council would know that China is Russia's ally and the reason for the veto.

Essentially why this resolution was adopted.


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> Nice find!
> 
> . . . however, given the history of this particular conflict?
> 
> By the time the global diplomats actually fully investigate both sides of this conflict, and decide to judiciously act upon the merits of the case?
> 
> IMO?  It will probably be over.
> 
> From the way you have been posting, you necessarily believe that the UN needs to intervene on Ukraine's side?  Which, I am not necessarily disagreeing with. . .
> 
> . . . however, there also, if the international bureaucrats looked into this, might be A LOT of truth as to why the invasion occurred in the first place, and why the western and Ukrainian side refused to resolve those issues through diplomacy. . . so?   I noticed of all of the twelve times it was invoked? Only once was it's use ever successful.
> 
> . . . and given Germany, France and China, all believe that Russia DID indeed have some legitimate grievances for invasion?  I doubt that investigations into why diplomatic negotiations continued to not yield results would look very good upon either the United States or the puppet regime in Kiev.



I simply believe rules are absolute until they're not. If the UN isn't prepared to take punitive measures against Russia, simply for the sole act of invading another member, using any method and procedure available to them (the UN), then by that token, the UN is a defunct alliance.


----------



## San Souci

Rogue AI said:


> Under what auspices would you use 377 to remove China's say? They aren't involved in this. What you suggest makes the whole purpose of the UN worthless.


The UN is worthless. Always has been.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Add Belarus to the list.


----------



## Rogue AI

TemplarKormac said:


> Their veto would be easily seen as an attempt to deadlock the council. Everyone else in the council would know that China is Russia's ally and the reason for the veto.
> 
> Essentially why this resolution was adopted.


Eliminating China's veto because they might not agree with us is childish and stupid. Without a formal alliance the mere suggestion undermines the whole purpose of diplomacy. Your suggestion echos of woke lunacy, cancel everyone who doesn't agree. No thanks.


----------



## BasicHumanUnit

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Kiev under attack. China watching this and ready to take Taiwan. Russia/China alliance in full force. The Western Alliance better wake up.



Meh...this marks the beginning of the end of the West.

But remember....the true "War Dogs" are in control.   They are chomping at the bit to engage the MIC and rake in the billions (again).
What's holding them back this time is the EuroTrash influence such as Soros etc....temporarily.

Soon, the Wealthy Eurotrash that is controlling the WH, US media, Justice System and Schools etc will realize that sacrificing the USA is a great way to kill two birds with one stone so I could see the Eurotrash Elites sacrificing the USA by ordering Biden to engage Russia and have it to do Europes dirty work once again.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Rogue AI said:


> Eliminating China's veto because they might not agree with us is childish and stupid. Without a formal alliance the mere suggestion undermines the whole purpose of diplomacy. Your suggestion echos of woke lunacy, cancel everyone who doesn't agree. No thanks.



Woke lunacy? I am merely suggesting everything short of an actual invasion by the west, which none of us want.

You have any better ideas?

Russia has brushed off current and future sanctions, and it is intent on continuing its behavior in Ukraine for the foreseeable future. Every method should be available, and not because someone is afraid to step on some toes. 

You don't want war, I am presenting valid suggestions that don't involve our troops being put on the ground. 

Oh, and lethal aid is useless to the Ukrainians if they have already been defeated by Russia. Then, Russia will simply seize the aid we sent and use it against any Ukrainians attempting to fight back against the occupation.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Rogue AI said:


> Eliminating China's veto because they might not agree with us is childish and stupid.



When everyone knows the purpose of the veto, then it isn't. It allows the council to act without any impediments for the safety and security of the rest of its members.


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale 

I don't see what you think is so funny. Perhaps you would like to let me in on the joke?


----------



## Doc7505

Putin declares war as explosions rock Ukraine capital of Kyiv​








						Putin declares war on Ukraine as deadly missile strikes plunge country into bloodshed
					

Russian President Vladimir Putin declared war on Wednesday night, ending weeks of diplomatic stalemate and plunging Eastern Europe into a nightmare of violence and bloodshed not seen since the…




					nypost.com
				



23 Fen 2022 ~~ By Callie Patteson, Samuel Chamberlain, Mark Lungariello and Mark Moore

Russian President Vladimir Putin declared war on Wednesday night, ending weeks of diplomatic stalemate and plunging Eastern Europe into a nightmare of violence and bloodshed not seen since the darkest days of World War II.
The Russian leader claimed Russia was undertaking a “special military operation” to demilitarize and “denazify” the country under the guise Russia was defending itself.
Putin announced the operation in a live televised speech that aired before 6 a.m. local time, threatening countries that attempt to interfere with “consequences they have never seen.
Immediately following the speech, explosions were reported in the capital city Kyiv, Kramatorsk, Kharkiv, Odessa and Mariupol. It wasn’t immediately clear what the targets were.
Ukrainian airspace was closed to civilian aircraft as the region was considered an active conflict zone. The European Union Aviation Safety Agency issued an alert saying there is a risk of “both intentional targeting and misidentification” of civilian aircraft.
​
Commentary:
As daybreak begins Russian forces tanks and APC's moving toward Kiev.
The people of the Ukraine are out manned and out gunned by Russia. Pray for the people.
Meanwhile Putin infers that if the U.S. intervenes, he will use dire means to stop it.
Meanwhile Joey B says he'll invoke sanctions. 
Can we expect Xi Jinping to "Annex" Tiawan in a few mnths.


----------



## BasicHumanUnit

Rogue AI said:


> Eliminating China's veto because they might not agree with us is childish and stupid. Without a formal alliance the mere suggestion undermines the whole purpose of diplomacy. Your suggestion echos of woke lunacy, cancel everyone who doesn't agree. No thanks.



Yet that is precisely the tactic of the radical Left and guess what....they are winning.


----------



## BasicHumanUnit

Welp....Democrats and Biden supporters have managed to set the world at war once again.


----------



## TemplarKormac

TemplarKormac said:


> Woke lunacy? I am merely suggesting everything short of an actual invasion by the west, which none of us want.
> 
> You have any better ideas?
> 
> Russia has brushed off current and future sanctions, and it is intent on continuing its behavior in Ukraine for the foreseeable future. Every method should be available, and not because someone is afraid to step on some toes.
> 
> You don't want war, I am presenting valid suggestions that don't involve our troops being put on the ground.
> 
> Oh, and lethal aid is useless to the Ukrainians if they have already been defeated by Russia. Then, Russia will simply seize the aid we sent and use it against any Ukrainians attempting to fight back against the occupation.


EDITED.


----------



## Rogue AI

TemplarKormac said:


> Woke lunacy? I am merely suggesting everything short of an actual invasion by the west, which none of us want.
> 
> You have any better ideas?


You suggest kicking Russia out of the UN and silencing any possible Chinese dissent. That's about as woke as it gets.

My idea, let Europe handle the problems in their yard, we have enough problems in our own.


----------



## MisterBeale

TemplarKormac said:


> Their veto would be easily seen as an attempt to deadlock the council. Everyone else in the council would know that China is Russia's ally and the reason for the veto.
> 
> Essentially why this resolution was adopted.


. . . I don't. . . .  think. . .  you really understand. . .


. . . what is really. . .  going on here Templar.  There are issues that are far deeper than just an invasion.  This is just a symptom of something far, far more serious.

When the US bombed Libya?  What did Russia and China do?    When the US  invaded Iraq, what did Russia & China do?  When the US invaded Afghanistan, what did Russia and China do?

You really need to pay attention to what the hell is going on in the world, and stop with your double standards before it gets all of us killed.










It is, and never was, about Ukraine to begin with.









						America’s real adversaries are its European and other allies
					

The U.S. aim is to keep them from trading with China and Russia



					www.unz.com
				








__





						America’s real adversaries are its European and other allies:  The U.S. aim is to keep them from trading with China and Russia | The Vineyard of the Saker
					

A bird's eye view of the vineyard




					thesaker.is
				












						The Crisis in Ukraine is not about Ukraine. It's about Germany
					

“The primordial interest of the United States, over which for centuries we have fought wars-- the First, the Second and Cold Wars-- has been the relationship between Germany and Russia, because united there, they’re the only force that could threaten us. And to make sure that that doesn’t...




					www.unz.com
				












						The Crisis in Ukraine Is Not About Ukraine. It's About Germany
					

“The primordial interest of the United States, over which for centuries we have fought wars– the First, the Second and Cold Wars– has been the...




					www.ronpaulinstitute.org
				




Not just the pipeline, but that is an good symbol, it is a concrete example of what is coming, for everything else.

It is the total picture.  Currency, food (through fertilizers,) banking & investments, a percentage of GDP toward defense? .  . . everything.

". . . What worries American diplomats is that Germany, other NATO nations and countries along the Belt and Road route understand the gains that can be made by opening up peaceful trade and investment. If there is no Russian or Chinese plan to invade or bomb them, what is the need for NATO? What is the need for such heavy purchases of U.S. military hardware by America’s affluent allies? And if there is no inherently adversarial relationship, why do foreign countries need to sacrifice their own trade and financial interests by relying exclusively on U.S. exporters and investors?

These are the concerns that have prompted French President Macron to call forth the ghost of Charles de Gaulle and urge Europe to turn away from what he calls NATO’s “brain-dead” Cold War and break with the pro-U.S. trade arrangements that are imposing rising costs on Europe while denying it potential gains from trade with Eurasia. Even Germany is balking at demands that it freeze by this coming March by going without Russian gas.

Instead of a real military threat from Russia and China, the problem for American strategists is the absence of such a threat. All countries have come to realize that the world has reached a point at which no industrial economy has the manpower and political ability to mobilize a standing army of the size that would be needed to invade or even wage a major battle with a significant adversary. That political cost makes it uneconomic for Russia to retaliate against NATO adventurism prodding at its western border trying to incite a military response. It’s just not worth taking over Ukraine.

America’s rising pressure on its allies threatens to drive them out of the U.S. orbit. For over 75 years they had little practical alternative to U.S. hegemony. But that is now changing. America no longer has the monetary power and seemingly chronic trade and balance-of-payments surplus that enabled it to draw up the world’s trade and investment rules in 1944-45. The threat to U.S. dominance is that China, Russia and Mackinder’s Eurasian World Island heartland are offering better trade and investment opportunities than are available from the United States with its increasingly desperate demand for sacrifices from its NATO and other allies.

The most glaring example is the U.S. drive to block Germany from authorizing the Nord Stream 2 pipeline to obtain Russian gas for the coming cold weather. Angela Merkel agreed with Donald Trump to spend $1 billion building a new LNG port to become more dependent on highly priced U.S. LNG. (The plan was cancelled after the U.S. and German elections changed both leaders.) But Germany has no other way of heating many of its houses and office buildings (or supplying its fertilizer companies) than with Russian gas.. . . "


----------



## TemplarKormac

Rogue AI said:


> You suggest kicking Russia out of the UN and silencing any possible Chinese dissent. That's about as woke as it gets.
> 
> My idea, let Europe handle the problems in their yard, we have enough problems in our own.



Call it whatever you like. 

It's a preemptive measure. Let China veto, then call the countries into session under 377 to override it. China won't be silenced, they will be overruled. Once China states its reasons for the veto, the rest is easy. 

Kicking Russia out over a blatant violation of another nation's sovereignty, China for intentionally deadlocking the council's ability to function in a time of crisis in the Eastern Hemisphere. If China deadlocks the council, then it is effectively standing in the way of Europe "handling the problems in their own yard." The US would only have to invoke this resolution to stop them. 

Not woke. Not even slightly.


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> . . . I don't. . . .  think. . .  you really understand. . .
> 
> 
> . . . what is really. . .  going on here Templar.  There are issues that are far deeper than just an invasion.  This is just a symptom of something far, far more serious.
> 
> When the US bombed Libya?  What did Russia and China do?    When the US  invaded Iraq, what did Russia & China do?  When the US invaded Afghanistan, what did Russia and China do?
> 
> You really need to pay attention to what the hell is going on in the world, and stop with your double standards before it gets all of us killed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is, and never was, about Ukraine to begin with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> America’s real adversaries are its European and other allies
> 
> 
> The U.S. aim is to keep them from trading with China and Russia
> 
> 
> 
> www.unz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> America’s real adversaries are its European and other allies:  The U.S. aim is to keep them from trading with China and Russia | The Vineyard of the Saker
> 
> 
> A bird's eye view of the vineyard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thesaker.is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Crisis in Ukraine is not about Ukraine. It's about Germany
> 
> 
> “The primordial interest of the United States, over which for centuries we have fought wars-- the First, the Second and Cold Wars-- has been the relationship between Germany and Russia, because united there, they’re the only force that could threaten us. And to make sure that that doesn’t...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.unz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Crisis in Ukraine Is Not About Ukraine. It's About Germany
> 
> 
> “The primordial interest of the United States, over which for centuries we have fought wars– the First, the Second and Cold Wars– has been the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ronpaulinstitute.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not just the pipeline, but that is an good symbol, it is a concrete example of what is coming, for everything else.
> 
> It is the total picture.  Currency, food (through fertilizers,) banking & investments, a percentage of GDP toward defense? .  . . everything.
> 
> ". . . What worries American diplomats is that Germany, other NATO nations and countries along the Belt and Road route understand the gains that can be made by opening up peaceful trade and investment. If there is no Russian or Chinese plan to invade or bomb them, what is the need for NATO? What is the need for such heavy purchases of U.S. military hardware by America’s affluent allies? And if there is no inherently adversarial relationship, why do foreign countries need to sacrifice their own trade and financial interests by relying exclusively on U.S. exporters and investors?
> 
> These are the concerns that have prompted French President Macron to call forth the ghost of Charles de Gaulle and urge Europe to turn away from what he calls NATO’s “brain-dead” Cold War and break with the pro-U.S. trade arrangements that are imposing rising costs on Europe while denying it potential gains from trade with Eurasia. Even Germany is balking at demands that it freeze by this coming March by going without Russian gas.
> 
> Instead of a real military threat from Russia and China, the problem for American strategists is the absence of such a threat. All countries have come to realize that the world has reached a point at which no industrial economy has the manpower and political ability to mobilize a standing army of the size that would be needed to invade or even wage a major battle with a significant adversary. That political cost makes it uneconomic for Russia to retaliate against NATO adventurism prodding at its western border trying to incite a military response. It’s just not worth taking over Ukraine.
> 
> America’s rising pressure on its allies threatens to drive them out of the U.S. orbit. For over 75 years they had little practical alternative to U.S. hegemony. But that is now changing. America no longer has the monetary power and seemingly chronic trade and balance-of-payments surplus that enabled it to draw up the world’s trade and investment rules in 1944-45. The threat to U.S. dominance is that China, Russia and Mackinder’s Eurasian World Island heartland are offering better trade and investment opportunities than are available from the United States with its increasingly desperate demand for sacrifices from its NATO and other allies.
> 
> The most glaring example is the U.S. drive to block Germany from authorizing the Nord Stream 2 pipeline to obtain Russian gas for the coming cold weather. Angela Merkel agreed with Donald Trump to spend $1 billion building a new LNG port to become more dependent on highly priced U.S. LNG. (The plan was cancelled after the U.S. and German elections changed both leaders.) But Germany has no other way of heating many of its houses and office buildings (or supplying its fertilizer companies) than with Russian gas.. . . "



Spare me the whataboutisms.


----------



## Rambunctious




----------



## Rogue AI

TemplarKormac said:


> Call it whatever you like.
> 
> It's a preemptive measure. Let China veto, then call the countries into session under 377 to override it. China won't be silenced, they will be overruled. Once China states its reasons for the veto, the rest is easy.
> 
> Kicking Russia out over a blatant violation of another nation's sovereignty, China for intentionally deadlocking the council's ability to function in a time of crisis in the Eastern Hemisphere. If China deadlocks the council, then it is effectively standing in the way of Europe "handling the problems in their own yard." The US would only have to invoke this resolution to stop them.
> 
> Not woke. Not even slightly.


That's woke, and whiny to boot. How sad.


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> You really need to pay attention to what the hell is going on in the world, and stop with your double standards before it gets all of us killed.



Russia in its current state is a product of Western incompetence. It should be the west's responsibility to stop them, if not through invasion, punitive measures available under the UN charter and pertinent resolutions. We made the mess, we clean it up.

And yes, I am paying attention, but this does not absolve China, Russia, or Belarus from their complicity.

So I would like to return your sentiment.  You haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Rogue AI said:


> That's woke, and whiny to boot. How sad.


Think what you like, if you're capable.

I cannot speak for your wholesale ignorance of the threats China and Russia pose to the rest of the world, however. The UN is a peacekeeping body, Russia and China will intentionally pose significant obstacles to its designed purpose by vetoing any actions directed toward them, unless they are ejected and circumvented, respectively.

Do you want the UN to actually do its job? Start with Russia and China. Remove them from the equation. The UN, and thereby European nations, cannot deal with their own problems while Russia and China continually act as obstructions to it undertaking meaningful actions to help Ukraine.

And calling it "woke" is a cop-out. If that is all you can muster, please, stop trying.


----------



## iceberg

MisterBeale said:


> . . . I don't. . . .  think. . .  you really understand. . .
> 
> 
> . . . what is really. . .  going on here Templar.  There are issues that are far deeper than just an invasion.  This is just a symptom of something far, far more serious.
> 
> When the US bombed Libya?  What did Russia and China do?    When the US  invaded Iraq, what did Russia & China do?  When the US invaded Afghanistan, what did Russia and China do?
> 
> You really need to pay attention to what the hell is going on in the world, and stop with your double standards before it gets all of us killed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is, and never was, about Ukraine to begin with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> America’s real adversaries are its European and other allies
> 
> 
> The U.S. aim is to keep them from trading with China and Russia
> 
> 
> 
> www.unz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> America’s real adversaries are its European and other allies:  The U.S. aim is to keep them from trading with China and Russia | The Vineyard of the Saker
> 
> 
> A bird's eye view of the vineyard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thesaker.is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Crisis in Ukraine is not about Ukraine. It's about Germany
> 
> 
> “The primordial interest of the United States, over which for centuries we have fought wars-- the First, the Second and Cold Wars-- has been the relationship between Germany and Russia, because united there, they’re the only force that could threaten us. And to make sure that that doesn’t...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.unz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Crisis in Ukraine Is Not About Ukraine. It's About Germany
> 
> 
> “The primordial interest of the United States, over which for centuries we have fought wars– the First, the Second and Cold Wars– has been the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ronpaulinstitute.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not just the pipeline, but that is an good symbol, it is a concrete example of what is coming, for everything else.
> 
> It is the total picture.  Currency, food (through fertilizers,) banking & investments, a percentage of GDP toward defense? .  . . everything.
> 
> ". . . What worries American diplomats is that Germany, other NATO nations and countries along the Belt and Road route understand the gains that can be made by opening up peaceful trade and investment. If there is no Russian or Chinese plan to invade or bomb them, what is the need for NATO? What is the need for such heavy purchases of U.S. military hardware by America’s affluent allies? And if there is no inherently adversarial relationship, why do foreign countries need to sacrifice their own trade and financial interests by relying exclusively on U.S. exporters and investors?
> 
> These are the concerns that have prompted French President Macron to call forth the ghost of Charles de Gaulle and urge Europe to turn away from what he calls NATO’s “brain-dead” Cold War and break with the pro-U.S. trade arrangements that are imposing rising costs on Europe while denying it potential gains from trade with Eurasia. Even Germany is balking at demands that it freeze by this coming March by going without Russian gas.
> 
> Instead of a real military threat from Russia and China, the problem for American strategists is the absence of such a threat. All countries have come to realize that the world has reached a point at which no industrial economy has the manpower and political ability to mobilize a standing army of the size that would be needed to invade or even wage a major battle with a significant adversary. That political cost makes it uneconomic for Russia to retaliate against NATO adventurism prodding at its western border trying to incite a military response. It’s just not worth taking over Ukraine.
> 
> America’s rising pressure on its allies threatens to drive them out of the U.S. orbit. For over 75 years they had little practical alternative to U.S. hegemony. But that is now changing. America no longer has the monetary power and seemingly chronic trade and balance-of-payments surplus that enabled it to draw up the world’s trade and investment rules in 1944-45. The threat to U.S. dominance is that China, Russia and Mackinder’s Eurasian World Island heartland are offering better trade and investment opportunities than are available from the United States with its increasingly desperate demand for sacrifices from its NATO and other allies.
> 
> The most glaring example is the U.S. drive to block Germany from authorizing the Nord Stream 2 pipeline to obtain Russian gas for the coming cold weather. Angela Merkel agreed with Donald Trump to spend $1 billion building a new LNG port to become more dependent on highly priced U.S. LNG. (The plan was cancelled after the U.S. and German elections changed both leaders.) But Germany has no other way of heating many of its houses and office buildings (or supplying its fertilizer companies) than with Russian gas.. . . "


great read. helped me better understand.


----------



## Rogue AI

TemplarKormac said:


> Think what you like, if you're capable.
> 
> I cannot speak for your wholesale ignorance of the threats China and Russia pose to the rest of the world, however. The UN is a peacekeeping body, Russia and China will intentionally pose significant obstacles to its designed purpose by vetoing any actions directed toward them, unless they are ejected and circumvented, respectively.
> 
> You want the UN to actually do its job? Start with Russia and China.


Sorry, your double standards undermine any intellectual credit I may have falsely attributed to you. Woke policies won't deter Russia or China. Kicking them out of the UN or silencing them will make things worse. How foolish and irrational you folks get when things don't go exactly as you like.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Rogue AI said:


> Sorry, your double standards undermine any intellectual credit I may have falsely attributed to you.


So, we continually allow Russia and China to obstruct any UN (and ergo European) attempt to help Ukraine? Okay, if that undermines my intellectual credit, which I did not seek from you, so be it. I make my own intellectual capital, I don't need "credit" from myopic people such as yourself. 

Their very existence as founding members of the UN, while good-natured at the founding, are now acting as impediments to its function now. 

You want Europe to deal with their problems, remove the obstacles. 

Wokeness be damned. Your protestations be damned.


----------



## MisterBeale

TemplarKormac said:


> MisterBeale
> 
> I don't see what you think is so funny. Perhaps you would like to let me in on the joke?


It is your assumption that the information that you are getting, that the US is nothing but in the right, that the UN would necessarily side with the US and her allies, that the reason that Russia gave for being forced to invade?  Weren't legit.  When I was young, I remember that Ukraine used to be part of the USSR, they had nuke tech.  Hell, when I was in High School,

I don't assume that the government and billionaire controlled information on my side is the truth, nor do I assume that the corrupt government of Russia is necessarily telling the truth.

There are no good guys, and there are no bad guys.

But the way you are posting?  You post like all that bullshit that has been coming out of the CFR, the RAND corp and Atlantic Council directly to CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX has any resemblance for truth.

Hell, we wouldn't be in ANY of this shitty position if Obama and Victoria Nuland hadn't started it all with a Neo-Nazi backed Coup back in 2014!

. ..  so what the hell are you doing taking the side of LITERAL NAZIS!









I mean, don't get me wrong, I feel for the people of Ukraine . . . but c'mon?  When I was growing up?  This guy, (A Ukrainian,) was the leader of the Soviet Union. . . And I suffered for them, all growing up, like, literal PTSD type nightmare shit. . . 






Leonid BrezhnevЛеонид Брежнев









						Leonid Brezhnev - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




. . . and now, the American Elite, the ruling classes, want ME to suffer for Ukraine again?   






THAT?  Is some serious bullshit.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Rogue AI said:


> How foolish and irrational you folks get when things don't go exactly as you like.



What's more 'woke' then? Preserving nonexistent amity between the west and those two by keeping Russia in the council and letting China obstruct with their veto? Or hurting their feelings by taking them both out of the equation by various non-lethal methods?


----------



## Colin norris

MisterBeale said:


> It is your assumption that the information that you are getting, that the US is nothing but in the right, that the UN would necessarily side with the US and her allies, that the reason that Russia gave for being forced to invade?  Weren't legit.  When I was young, I remember that Ukraine used to be part of the USSR, they had nuke tech.  Hell, when I was in High School,
> 
> I don't assume that the government and billionaire controlled information on my side is the truth, nor do I assume that the corrupt government of Russia is necessarily telling the truth.
> 
> There are no good guys, and there are no bad guys.
> 
> But the way you are posting?  You post like all that bullshit that has been coming out of the CFR, the RAND corp and Atlantic Council directly to CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX has any resemblance for truth.
> 
> Hell, we wouldn't be in ANY of this shitty position if Obama and Victoria Nuland hadn't started it all with a Neo-Nazi backed Coup back in 2014!
> 
> . ..  so what the hell are you doing taking the side of LITERAL NAZIS!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, don't get me wrong, I feel for the people of Ukraine . . . but c'mon?  When I was growing up?  This guy, (A Ukrainian,) was the leader of the Soviet Union. . . And I suffered for them, all growing up, like, literal PTSD type nightmare shit. . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leonid BrezhnevЛеонид Брежнев
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leonid Brezhnev - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . . . and now, the American Elite, the ruling classes, want ME to suffer for Ukraine again?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THAT?  Is some serious bullshit.


So it's Obama's fault now? 
You really are fucked in the head.


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> It is your assumption that the information that you are getting, that the US is nothing but in the right


I never made that claim. The garbage foreign policy enacted by the US over the past three decades contributed to this mess. The best we can do is clean it up. Via the methods I suggested. If we don't want our blood and treasure getting involved over there, this would be my solution. I'm not so arrogant as to expect any of that to happen. This is a discussion board, not the UN feedback department.


----------



## MisterBeale

TemplarKormac said:


> Spare me the whataboutisms.


So. . . what you are saying is, it is alright if WE have reasons to initiate war, but not if others do it?


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> It is your assumption that the information that you are getting, that the US is nothing but in the right, that the UN would necessarily side with the US and her allies, that the reason that Russia gave for being forced to invade?  Weren't legit.  When I was young, I remember that Ukraine used to be part of the USSR, they had nuke tech.  Hell, when I was in High School,
> 
> I don't assume that the government and billionaire controlled information on my side is the truth, nor do I assume that the corrupt government of Russia is necessarily telling the truth.
> 
> There are no good guys, and there are no bad guys.
> 
> But the way you are posting?  You post like all that bullshit that has been coming out of the CFR, the RAND corp and Atlantic Council directly to CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX has any resemblance for truth.
> 
> Hell, we wouldn't be in ANY of this shitty position if Obama and Victoria Nuland hadn't started it all with a Neo-Nazi backed Coup back in 2014!
> 
> . ..  so what the hell are you doing taking the side of LITERAL NAZIS!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, don't get me wrong, I feel for the people of Ukraine . . . but c'mon?  When I was growing up?  This guy, (A Ukrainian,) was the leader of the Soviet Union. . . And I suffered for them, all growing up, like, literal PTSD type nightmare shit. . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leonid BrezhnevЛеонид Брежнев
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leonid Brezhnev - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . . . and now, the American Elite, the ruling classes, want ME to suffer for Ukraine again?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THAT?  Is some serious bullshit.


Ad hominem, the argument of the weak.

People like you and Rogue talk a big game when it involves not sending our troops to war, but won't consider any methods by which we can easily employ to keep that from happening.

THAT'S the bullshit. If you are unwilling to do what it takes via non-lethal, then you are leaving the option for putting troops on the ground to deter any action as the only option. Meaning you would be the ones exercising the double standards (Rogue AI).

I will accept no lectures from either of you on the subject. You have both proven you are not committed to keeping our troops out of that conflict. 

I am. 

End of discussion.


----------



## Ringo

.
The Russian Armed Forces are not carrying out any missile, aviation or artillery strikes on Ukrainian cities, the Defense Ministry said today. Military infrastructure, air defense facilities, military airfields, aviation of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are being put out of action by high-precision means of destruction, the ministry stressed.

The air defense means of the Ukrainian army have been suppressed, and the infrastructure of the AFU air bases has been disabled, the Russian Ministry of Defense reported.
The Defense Ministry also stated that the servicemen of the border guard service of Ukraine do not offer any resistance to Russian units.

The artillery of the Donetsk People's Republic struck the headquarters of the so-called operation of the joint forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the city of Chas Yar. This is reported by the Telegram channel "Welders", the correspondent of "Donbass Today" reports.

"The headquarters, which houses the entire command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which manages the Ukrainian military, is burning well. If the losses are confirmed, we can assume that the Ukrainian General Staff has lost control of its troops," the report says.


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> So. . . what you are saying is, it is alright if WE have reasons to initiate war, but not if others do it?


Who said I wanted war? The second time I've asked. 

I want this to be absolved through non-lethal means. But we can't very well do that with two countries colluding to get in the way, can we?


----------



## MisterBeale

TemplarKormac said:


> I never made that claim. The garbage foreign policy enacted by the US over the past three decades contributed to this mess. The best we can do is clean it up. Via the methods I suggested. If we don't want our blood and treasure getting involved over there, this would be my solution. I'm not so arrogant as to expect any of that to happen. This is a discussion board, not the UN feedback department.


The methods you suggested aren't going to work, is all I am telling you. .  because, in your own words, you admitted defeat, i.e.



TemplarKormac said:


> Spare me the whataboutisms.




When it goes to an arbitration for the use of that proposal at the UN you suggested?  That is precisely what the Russians and Chinese will tell the community of nations that the US and its allies have been acting like. . . pirates, imperialists, mercantilists . . . on the international stage.

I seriously doubt that any collective action will be sought or agreed upon against Russia or China for standing up to NATO. . . 

You can't have a trial with only one set of facts.  That isn't how it is conducted, sorry you don't want to here THE WHOLE STORY.

There are always two sides to a situation, and if there is no compromise?  THAT is when war happens.


----------



## MisterBeale

TemplarKormac said:


> Who said I wanted war? The second time I've asked.
> 
> I want this to be absolved through non-lethal means. But we can't very well do that with two countries colluding to get in the way, can we?



And this?  This speaks to your ignorance.

What were the Russian desires so that peace could continue?

I see you sit there and blame Russia and China. . . . 

Let's see, tell me what Russia desired to maintain the peace, tell me what it desired in negotiations.


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> The methods you suggested aren't going to work, is all I am telling you. . because, in your own words, you admitted defeat, i.e.



They won't work simply for the lack of willingness to try. Not because there is no route for those methods to be enacted.


----------



## Ringo

This is not a war, this is an operation to denazify Ukraine.


----------



## Turtlesoup

skye said:


> Oh cool......now the Turnip Administration can blame  all the bad that's happening in the US on that!
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 605838


They are going to use this to keep the mail in BALLOTS in unsecure locations ....


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> And this? This speaks to your ignorance.
> 
> What were the Russian desires so that peace could continue?
> 
> I see you sit there and blame Russia and China. . . .
> 
> Let's see, tell me what Russia desired to maintain the peace, tell me what it desired in negotiations.



What are you talking about?

It seems here I am thinking ahead while you sit mired in the past and the present.

Russia has caused geopolitical upheaval by invading Ukraine. If we want to keep our troops out, we invoke those methods.

And what escapes you is that this is what_* I *_would do.

I am blaming Russia and China for their future attempts to impede the actions of the UN Security Council by engaging in obstructive behavior we both know they will undertake. Their past behavior suggests their future behavior.

I won't go so low as to attack your reading comprehension, but it seems clear here yours was absent in this discussion.


----------



## MisterBeale

TemplarKormac said:


> I want this to be absolved through non-lethal means. But we can't very well do that with two countries colluding to get in the way, can we?





TemplarKormac said:


> They won't work simply for the lack of willingness to try.



Again?  The blame, most certainly seems, to all be on NATO, doesn't it?  Neither Britain, nor the US, nor the puppet government in Kiev ever gave the Minsk agreement a chance to work, did they?


----------



## Rambunctious

Putin Declares War on the Ukraine​


----------



## Rogue AI

TemplarKormac said:


> So, we continually allow Russia and China to obstruct any UN (and ergo European) attempt to help Ukraine? Okay, if that undermines my intellectual credit, which I did not seek from you, so be it. I make my own intellectual capital, I don't need "credit" from myopic people such as yourself.
> 
> Their very existence as founding members of the UN, while good-natured at the founding, are now acting as impediments to its function now.
> 
> You want Europe to deal with their problems, remove the obstacles.
> 
> Wokeness be damned. Your protestations be damned.


Of course, the UN was designed to allow other countries a place to air their opinions and grievances, it never really applied to the P5.

Every nation is going to pursue their own interests, as is their right. That will not always be in our interests, nor ours in the interests of others. The US seems to have forgotten that. Fools in DC think they can return the world to a bygone time of the bi-polar Cold War. That's not going to happen.  At best you get a three sided Cold War with the US, China, and Russia. That's not a winning combination for us.


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> When it goes to an arbitration for the use of that proposal at the UN you suggested? That is precisely what the Russians and Chinese will tell the community of nations that the US and its allies have been acting like. . . pirates, imperialists, mercantilists . . . on the international stage.



That is no excuse for what Russia has done, and what China would strive to do by obstructing the council, I would contend. 

Namecalling is irrelevant when one country destroys the peace in the region while another impedes its reacquisition through obstruction.


----------



## MisterBeale

TemplarKormac said:


> What are you talking about?
> 
> It seems here I am thinking ahead while you sit mired in the past and the present.
> 
> Russia has caused geopolitical upheaval by invading Ukraine. If we want to keep our troops out, we invoke those methods.
> 
> And what escapes you is that this is what_* I *_would do.
> 
> I am blaming Russia and China for their future attempts to impede the actions of the UN Security Council by engaging in obstructive behavior we both know they will undertake. Their past behavior suggests their future behavior.
> 
> I won't go so low as to attack your reading comprehension, but it seems clear here yours was absent in this discussion.


Well then, I apologize.

I took this to mean;



TemplarKormac said:


> I want this to be absolved through non-lethal means. But we can't very well do that with two countries colluding to get in the way, can we?



You were referring to Russia and China were you not?

.. . . and if you were?  Then, does it not seem reasonable to conclude that you are, in fact, making a misinformed statement, when, it is in fact the NATO allies that are the ones getting in the way?


----------



## Ringo

One of the numerous episodes of the shelling of Donbass by Ukrainian bandits. Now they are getting the payback


----------



## TemplarKormac

Rogue AI said:


> Every nation is going to pursue their own interests, as is their right



Of course, but they surrendered those ambitions the moment they joined the UN, the US included. And if one country or three endangers the ambitions of the collective nations, whatever they might be, logically those threats should be removed. Whether it is woke or not is beside the point. But the mistake has already been made. Those ambitions are being dictated by two nations who have no business being on the council anymore. 

Liberty for temporary safety.


----------



## MisterBeale

TemplarKormac said:


> That is no excuse for what Russia has done



. . . and when NATO bombed and invaded Libya, Iraq, and Afghanistan?  It was no excuse either.  

All of those nations, as told by members of the western alliance, were a "threat," to member states.

From my analysis, though I don't buy the story much on either side. . . I'd buy the narrative that Ukraine could produce a nuke much quicker than either Libya, Iraq, or Afghanistan, and if I were in Russia's shoes, would find it to be far more of a threat. . . 

. . . think about it, if Mexico were a hostile nation capable of making a nuke, how long do you think it would go without being invaded, if it refused to come to the table and negotiate?

You do know, that NATO, the US, and the Ukrainian puppet state were NOT negotiating, right?



You just don't seem to want to engage in logical discussion.  I tell you what.


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> . and if you were? Then, does it not seem reasonable to conclude that you are, in fact, making a misinformed statement, when, it is in fact the NATO allies that are the ones getting in the way?



NATO need not get involved. This is a UN matter, strictly speaking. NATO and the UN strive toward the same peaceful goals but are two distinct organizations.


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> . . . and when NATO bombed and invaded Libya, Iraq, and Afghanistan?  It was no excuse either.
> 
> All of those nations, as told by members of the western alliance, were a "threat," to member states.
> 
> From my analysis, though I don't buy the story much on either side. . . I'd buy the narrative that Ukraine could produce a nuke much quicker than either Libya, Iraq, or Afghanistan, and if I were in Russia's shoes, would find it to be far more of a threat. . .
> 
> . . . think about it, if Mexico were a hostile nation capable of making a nuke, how long do you think it would go without being invaded, if it refused to come to the table and negotiate?
> 
> You do know, that NATO, the US, and the Ukrainian puppet state were NOT negotiating, right?
> 
> 
> 
> You just don't seem to want to engage in logical discussion.  I tell you what.



Oh I see. 

But NATO is irrelevant to this discussion. 

I am talking about the UN, and _only_ the UN.


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> You just don't seem to want to engage in logical discussion. I tell you what.



I am engaging in logical discussion. Using the very methods available to the UN to deal with this matter in a peaceful manner.


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> Again? The blame, most certainly seems, to all be on NATO, doesn't it?



Why are we talking about NATO? I'm talking about the UN, MisterBeale.


----------



## MisterBeale

TemplarKormac said:


> NATO need not get involved. This is a UN matter, strictly speaking. NATO and the UN strive toward the same peaceful goals but are two distinct organizations.


Tell that to Yugoslavia.

. . . oh wait.

Tell that to Libya.

. . . oh wait.

NATO strives toward peaceful goals.


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> Tell that to Yugoslavia.
> 
> . . . oh wait.
> 
> Tell that to Libya.
> 
> . . . oh wait.
> 
> NATO strives toward peaceful goals.




Stawmen, all of them. 

Oh you who are stuck in the past. 

I have stated multiple times I am _not_ talking about NATO.


----------



## Rogue AI

TemplarKormac said:


> Of course, but they surrendered those ambitions the moment they joined the UN, the US included. And if one country or three endangers the ambitions of the collective nations, whatever they might be, logically those threats should be removed. Whether it is woke or not is beside the point. But the mistake has already been made. Those ambitions are being dictated by two nations who have no business being on the council anymore.
> 
> Liberty for temporary safety.


Not the P5. How many wars of aggression has the US engaged in over the last 70 year? Do really think selling weapons to countries keeps with the intent of the UN charter? One could argue the wars by proxy over years are just as bad or worse violations of the intent of the UN. All P5 members have engaged in this. Anyone with an ounce of integrity would hold them all to the same standard. I support most of what the US has done over the years. The difference is I don't begrudge others for doing the same.

The world is an uncertain place. I'll take liberty over theoretical safety any day. In case nobody has noticed, the world is changing. The technological gap that once made the US virtually Supreme is closing fast. Globalization has eroded our influence and created resentments across a broad scale. For now I support a reassessment of our situation, solidifying our own region, and preparing ourselves for the worst without actually provoking it.


----------



## MisterBeale

TemplarKormac said:


> I am engaging in logical discussion. Using the very methods available to the UN to deal with this matter in a peaceful manner.


The UN is a corrupt puppet of global oligarchs bent on corporate world domination. 

I am really surprised you don't know this.  It belongs in the scrap heap of history.

Agenda 21/2030 is tied at the hip with the Trilateral Commission and the World Economic Forum, and they have brought to the world this COVID bio-security paradigm, and this AGW climate change hoax as a means to try to impose complete global control.

The global oligarchs in charge of the UN need to be shot, not given more power.

The folks that need to deal with this situation are the foreign secretaries for the various nations that have an interest in resolving this matter.

. . . and the issue for us in the United States?  Is whether we need to get involved at all. . . which most certainly we do NOT.











						Lukashenko warns Belarus will go to war if Russia is attacked
					

Alexander Lukashenko warns that the West is trying to ‘drown’ the region in blood, but insists he doesn’t want war with Ukraine.




					www.politico.eu


----------



## TemplarKormac

Rogue AI said:


> Not the P5. How many wars of aggression has the US engaged in over the last 70 years? Do really think selling weapons to countries keeps with the intent of the UN charter?



Why are we so focused on what the US did? 

Peacekeeping isn't necessarily simply about engaging in diplomacy, is it? What good is diplomacy without deterrent action?


----------



## MisterBeale

TemplarKormac said:


> Stawmen, all of them.
> 
> Oh you who are stuck in the past.
> 
> I have stated multiple times I am _not_ talking about NATO.


NATO has been conducting exercises in UKRAINE, and has breaking the terms of the Minsk agreement!  Why the hell do you think Russia is invading now?

Don't you have a clue what the hell is going on?!  

The US, Britain, NATO. . . none of them have been willing to peacefully negotiate a settlement. . . I KEEP TELLING YOU THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

War in Europe and the Rise of Raw Propaganda​








						War in Europe and the Rise of Raw Propaganda
					

Marshall McLuhan’s prophecy that “the successor to politics will be propaganda” has happened.  Raw propaganda is now the rule in Western democracies, especially the US and Britain On matters of war and peace, ministerial deceit is reported as news. Inconvenient facts are censored, demons are...




					www.counterpunch.org
				




". . . On 16 December, the United Nations tabled a resolution that called for “combating glorification of Nazism, neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fuelling contemporary forms of racism”. The only nations to vote against it were the United States and Ukraine.

Almost every Russian knows that it was across the plains of Ukraine’s “borderland” that Hitler’s divisions swept from the west in 1941, bolstered by Ukraine’s Nazi cultists and collaborators. The result was more than 20 million Russian dead.

Setting aside the manoeuvres and cynicism of geopolitics, whomever the players, this historical memory is the driving force behind Russia’s respect-seeking, self-protective security proposals, which were published in Moscow in the week the UN voted 130-2 to outlaw Nazism. They are:



> + NATO guarantees that it will not deploy missiles in nations bordering Russia. (They are already in place from Slovenia to Romania, with Poland to follow)
> + NATO to stop military and naval exercises in nations and seas bordering Russia.
> + Ukraine will not become a member of NATO.
> + the West and Russia to sign a binding East-West security pact.
> + the landmark treaty between the US and Russia covering intermediate-range nuclear weapons to be restored. (The US abandoned it in 2019)



These amount to a comprehensive draft of a peace plan for all of post-war Europe and ought to be welcomed in the West. But who understands their significance in Britain? What they are told is that Putin is a pariah and a threat to Christendom.

Russian-speaking Ukrainians, under economic blockade by Kyiv for seven years, are fighting for their survival. The “massing” army we seldom hear about are the thirteen Ukrainian army brigades laying siege to Donbas: an estimated 150,000 troops. If they attack, the provocation to Russia will almost certainly mean war.

In 2015, brokered by the Germans and French, the presidents of Russia, Ukraine, Germany and France met in Minsk and signed an interim peace deal. Ukraine agreed to offer autonomy to Donbas, now the self declared republics of Donetsk and Luhansk.

The Minsk agreement has never been given a chance. In Britain, the line,  amplified by Boris Johnson, is that Ukraine is being “dictated to” by world leaders. For its part, Britain is arming Ukraine and training its army.

Since the first Cold War, NATO has effectively marched right up to Russia’s most sensitive border having demonstrated its bloody aggression in Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and broken solemn promises to pull back.  Having dragged European “allies” into American wars that do not concern them, the great unspoken is that NATO itself is the real threat to European security.

In Britain, a state and media xenophobia is triggered at the very mention of “Russia”. Mark the knee-jerk hostility with which the BBC reports Russia. Why? Is it because the restoration of imperial mythology demands, above all, a permanent enemy? Certainly, we deserve better."


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> I am really surprised you don't know this. It belongs in the scrap heap of history.


I agree, yet, we don't want our troops going to Ukraine. So what other options are left us?

Selling weapons to the Ukranians or rendering China and Russia ineffective in impeding the security machinations of the rest of Europe?

How do we resolve this issue without getting any of our troops killed? Is this not what you wanted?


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> NATO has been conducting exercises in UKRAINE, and has breaking the terms of the Minsk agreement! Why the hell do you think Russia is invading now?



Oh of course. But I am stating that the UN can make up for the lack of power NATO has, by enacting punitive measures against Russia and preemptive measures against the Chinese. 

Once again, are we trying to avoid US boots on the ground or not?


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> Don't you have a clue what the hell is going on?!



I have plenty, but you are ignoring any suggestion or idea that could help us keep our troops from fighting in a useless war.


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> The US, Britain, NATO. . . none of them have been willing to peacefully negotiate a settlement. . . I KEEP TELLING YOU THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I keep telling you that I am not concerned with NATO. One UN member has attacked another, and as such, the UN has the power to deal with this matter now, not NATO.

Whatever NATO did is not relevant to what the US (and thereby the UN) can do now to keep American boots off Ukrainian soil. Now is a perfect time for the UN to fulfill its role as a peacekeeping apparatus.


----------



## MisterBeale

TemplarKormac said:


> I agree, yet, we don't want our troops going to Ukraine. So what other options are left us?
> 
> Selling weapons to the Ukranians or rendering China and Russia ineffective in impeding the security machinations of the rest of Europe?
> 
> How do we resolve this issue without getting any of our troops killed? Is this not what you wanted?



WE NEGOTIATE.

This is what Russia wants;



> + NATO guarantees that it will not deploy missiles in nations bordering Russia. (They are already in place from Slovenia to Romania, with Poland to follow)
> + NATO to stop military and naval exercises in nations and seas bordering Russia.
> + Ukraine will not become a member of NATO.
> + the West and Russia to sign a binding East-West security pact.
> + the landmark treaty between the US and Russia covering intermediate-range nuclear weapons to be restored. (The US abandoned it in 2019)



We find a way to make it happen.


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> WE NEGOTIATE.
> 
> This is what Russia wants;
> 
> 
> 
> We find a way to make it happen.



The moment Russia invaded Ukraine, negotiations were taken off the table. By Russia. Simply put.


----------



## MisterBeale

TemplarKormac said:


> Oh of course. But I am stating that the UN can make up for the lack of power NATO has, by enacting punitive measures against Russia and preemptive measures against the Chinese.
> 
> Once again, are we trying to avoid US boots on the ground or not?


Why?

Why does NATO, Britain, and the US get to use their military, and make up excuses to use force for imperialistic adventurism in support of our corporations in the pursuit of raw materials and capitol, or when we perceive threats to our national interests, but when other major powers do it, you think that all the other nations of the world are going to side with us?

And I fail to see why you want to ignore when we do it, calling it a straw man, but when our adversaries do it, well. . . then it is a good time to talk about the morality of the situation.  

I have no patience for equivoquation, hypocracy, and digression, and for you to make the claim that it is off-topic and not relevant to point out, when we do it has no relavance to the issue is annoying as fuck. . . You have always had more integrity than that.  I don't know why you refuse to see that the behavior of the US, NATO, and our allies here, especially when we are breaking treaties to CAUSE this behavior, are central to the issue here.

. . . I mean, it really is, idealistic, given you saw that wiki stub yourself. . . and YOU KNOW, the only way in hell that the UN would actually invoke that article, is in the case of genocide.

I boggles my mind that you think the UN could ever be used as such. . . but, why?

Why do you think it could?


----------



## Rogue AI

TemplarKormac said:


> Why are we so focused on what the US did?
> 
> Peacekeeping isn't necessarily simply about engaging in diplomacy, is it? What good is diplomacy without deterrent action?


We have no legitimacy if we are equally guilty in the past. In context of the UN, China and Russia stood aside in many cases, or vetoed and we did it anyway. Why should they not expect the same when they act? In short, the UN is basically useless in regards to the P5, but does have some purpose on other issues. Kicking out Russia and silencing China doesn't help anything.


----------



## MisterBeale

TemplarKormac said:


> I keep telling you that I am not concerned with NATO



. .  and THAT, is why you haven't got a clue what is going on.

NATO is central to why there is a war going on here now.






TemplarKormac said:


> The moment Russia invaded Ukraine, negotiations were taken off the table. By Russia. Simply put.




Those items were what Russia wanted for nearly a decade before it invaded.

When NATO continually broke the Minsk agreement, and it refused to come to the negotiating table with Ukraine?  Ukraine, and the NATO allies ASKED for this war. . .

I think that is what you do not get.

. . . and now you want to find some way to put boots on the ground to repel this invasion that the US, Ukraine and NATO spent a decade asking for.

. . . and you actually think you could lawyer the UN into it????


----------



## MisterBeale

What's Happening in Ukraine? - Questions For Corbett​








						What's Happening in Ukraine? - Questions For Corbett #084 - The Corbett Report
					

https://www.corbettreport.com/mp3/qfc084-ukraine.mp3Today on Questions For Corbett, Thomas writes in to ask James about the unfolding events in Ukraine. James gives his answer as things stood at 10 AM JST on February 23, 2022.




					www.corbettreport.com


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> Why?
> 
> Why does NATO, Britain, and the US get to use their military, and make up excuses to use force for imperialistic adventurism in support of our corporations in the pursuit of raw materials and capitol, or when we perceive threats to our national interests, but when other major powers do it, you think that all the other nations of the world are going to side with us?



So, it appears you think our "hypocrisy" should stop us from taking legitimate action this time around? How foolish.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Rogue AI said:


> We have no legitimacy if we are equally guilty in the past.


Our "guilt" should not impede any productive actions we could take now. Letting our past rule us and our hypocrisy restrain us will only put the world in further danger. Far more danger than any war of aggression the US has ever undertaken in the past. By orders of magnitude. 

But fine. Let's let China and Russia run roughshod internationally, while we as the US winnow away what little remains of our legitimacy in the world by failing to employ preventative/preemptive non-lethal actions against current and future obstruction by so-called UN member states to peaceful solutions there for the taking.


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> Those items were what Russia wanted for nearly a decade before it invaded.
> 
> When NATO continually broke the Minsk agreement, and it refused to come to the negotiating table with Ukraine? Ukraine, and the NATO allies ASKED for this war. . .
> 
> I think that is what you do not get.
> 
> . . . and now you want to find some way to put boots on the ground to repel this invasion that the US, Ukraine and NATO spent a decade asking for.
> 
> . . . and you actually think you could lawyer the UN into it????



So? 

What other arguments do you have other than "we're hypocrites and therefore should not act!" ?

Curious to know.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Rogue AI said:


> In short, the UN is basically useless in regards to the P5, but does have some purpose on other issues. Kicking out Russia and silencing China doesn't help anything.



So, our lack of legitimacy, you contend, dictates we do nothing.

We allow China and Russia to roam free in a peacekeeping body as hindrances to its legitimate efforts to keep the peace on the Eurasian continent and ultimately the rest of the world. Simply because we lack any legitimacy or moral credibility.

I can't accept that line of reasoning. We have tools we can use to put a stop to this as I have already laid out. It would achieve our ultimate goal of not putting one American foot on the ground in Ukraine.

However, it's all irrelevant in the end. My protestations mean nothing, nor do yours, Beal's, or anyone else's. The UN is going to act how it sees fit, much to the detriment of the rest of us.

I guess I am naive for hoping the UN could still carry out its original purpose. A saddening prospect, truly.


----------



## candycorn

Is anyone who posts here from the political right condemning Putin for murdering innocent people?


----------



## AlexanderPK

Calm the fuck down. Nobody who's sane will be hurt. Banderites will be annihilated and Ukraine returns to its normal life. Shame though Russia will have to channel its resources to restore broken industry and infrastructure.


----------



## TemplarKormac

I did run into this video, though. I'll be thinking on it when I'm not dog tired. Apart from the valid points he makes, if Ukraine is our fault, and we are truly hypocrites for our actions in the past, what's to say we can't enact remedies on both fronts?


Anyway, good night folks.


----------



## MisterBeale

TemplarKormac said:


> So, it appears you think our "hypocrisy" should stop us from taking legitimate action this time around? How foolish.


Sorry buddy, you have always been one of my favorite members, but the establishment propaganda has affected your ability to think clearly.

If you had a thief, that peacefully broke into your house, and stole something every day while you were away at work, but then, one day, you had the day off, and went to the store and came home to find him taking something and decided to lay into him. . . 

Someone saying that you are not taking "legitimate action," is just a POV.

Your view on justice, and who should have the natural right to self-defense, or the ability to strike first, as if Russia or China should not have the right, but we should?

I do not understand your logic.


----------



## Death Angel

Relax everybody and sleep well knowing the Democrats are in charge


----------



## beautress

So Europe is now bowing down to yet another ambitious Hitler... only this time instead of the Jews, they'll go after somebody else. Who might that be? Checklist of communists...

and who may that be?
girlie men, dark skin color,
wealthy, royalty

(Line of Russian soldiers)



​


----------



## Ringo

beautress said:


> So Europe is now bowing down to yet another ambitious Hitler...


Strange... When NATO was bombing Yugoslavia, it was not Hitler? No? O.K.


----------



## Ringo

"Gazprom" reports on gas supplies via Ukraine in normal mode
Gas transit through Ukraine is carried out in the normal mode, Gazprom reported. Compared to yesterday, the application for pumping gas even increased: the day before it was 60 million cubic meters. m per day, February 24 - 83 million cubic meters. m. 
Business is business...


----------



## beautress

Specifications of latest Russian Terminator Tanks. Despite what it says below, I read the other day 600 of them are in the vicinity of the Ukraine, more may be in Europe as Putin strikes down opposition From the Baltic Sea Estonia, Latvia, Lithuwania, Poland, (Belarus part of Russia already and too close for comfort), the Ukraine. And this near-indestructable tank is how he is going to terminate his opponents within 325 miles of the nearest BMPT Terminator:


​Guess where all this technology came from? Guess who passed America's warfare technology to poor little ol' China? President Bill Clinton in his day and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in hers. Guess who little old China shares American Tech with Russia frequently and copiously (for a few dollars more, of course).  Guess who gave 20% of America's best uranium to Russia for a $325,000,000. gift to the Clinton Library Foundation to fund Hillary Clinton's payments to the Press, extravaganda parties for the coochie coo press, the Hate-conservatives press, the Impeach President Trump Press, money to the Democrat Party to pay for the Steel Dossier by Hillary's old war-room Press, and Obama's gift of EXTREMELY OIL-RICH ALLEUTIAN ISLANDS bought and paid for by the United States as part of the 1867 "Seward's Ice Box" Alaska Purchase that included* all of the Aleutian Islands* Russia had no use for at that time. Guess where they will have ample oil to put in their Terminator Tanks? Yeah. This takeover of Europe, who will protest the termination of governments in the Baltic countries many of them share borders with, and put Communism as the unloving religion that will destroy everything and every person who objects to Russian (I keel you) communism? Hillary "I forget" Clinton did this assassinine thing. Her failure to account for her crimes against the United States are not known yet, but by the time America figures it out, Hillary will be President of Communist America, because Europe including Brexit will be decimated if they don't go along with the Racially purging, genderbender-hating Russian Termination. Somebody keeps erasing the SEVERAL terminator CAPABILITIES lists I have put in my post as I am typing this. Somebody may not want you to know Russia has gone nuclear in their termination plans, because somebody else might stop them, and Hillary was WELL DAMN PAID to destroy America with benefits!* AMERICA YOU BEEN HAD.*





BMPT specifications​Dimensions7.2 x3.37 x3.80 m (23x 11x 12 ft)Total weight, battle ready48 tonnesCrew5 (driver, gunner, commander, 2 operators)PropulsionV12 multifuel V-92S2 diesel, 1,000 hp (736 kW), 20 hp/t, turbochargerSuspensionTorsion barsSpeed (road)60 km/h (37 mph)Range550 km (340 mi)Armament2 x2A42 30mm autocannons
4 ×130 mm Ataka-T launchers
Coaxial 7.62mm PKTM
2x AG-17D grenade launchersArmorSee notesTotal productionAt least 15 built


----------



## ColonelAngus

Under Obama, Putin took Crimea
Under Trump, Putin did nothing…Trump killed 90 Russian mercs in Syria.
Under Biden, Putin attacks Ukraine


And somehow Trump is a Putin asset?


Fuck all the way off, lefties.  You are so full of shit.


----------



## ColonelAngus

Congrats Biden voters.


----------



## beautress

Oh, yeah? And Biden's influence on Russia, the Clintons, and Pelosi's mob? Just think on it:


----------



## Penelope

skye said:


> Oh cool......now the Turnip Administration can blame  all the bad that's happening in the US on that!
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 605838


You don't make a bit of sense.


----------



## Penelope

EvilCat Breath said:


> We are partly dependent on Russia for our energy.  As always, enemy democrats preen, we pay the price.
> 
> The air strikes have started.  Russia is shelling missiles.  I have heard idiotic, stupid people say the situation has spiraled out of control.  Not true.  Putin has it firmly in control.


Putin has it out of control.


----------



## beautress

Penelope said:


> You don't make a bit of sense.


Take off those dark goggles, doll. Skye makes more sense than the entire congregation of  pro-Commie players at USMB.


----------



## Penelope

beautress said:


> Take off those dark goggles, doll. Skye makes more sense than the entire Commie players at USMB.


She doesn't make much sense and so do you beautress. Senseless.


----------



## beautress

ColonelAngus said:


> Under Obama, Putin took Crimea
> Under Trump, Putin did nothing…Trump killed 90 Russian mercs in Syria.
> Under Biden, Putin attacks Ukraine
> 
> 
> And somehow Trump is a Putin asset?
> 
> 
> Fuck all the way off, lefties.  You are so full of shit.


They're repainting the Trump Twice Impeachment of Categoric Lies. Their Commie Leader Nancy Pelosi teaches her minions to teach the unwise stalking techniques to create an alternative narrative to the truth, which is they are communist aggregators of political character assassination.


----------



## beautress

Penelope said:


> She doesn't make much sense and so do you beautress. Senseless.


I'm wise to Communist card-carrying Pelosi and Clinton's commie opener that "It takes a village to raise a child" that mirrors communist techniques of tearing up the family to institute brainwashing and loyalty from family values and caring. Do you know what the suicide rate is in countries that get absorbed by communism? Europe is about to find out. American communists are busy creating their narratives that fall far short of the truth. You are on a path to murder of conservative Americans who oppose group takeover by oligarchs. Communist oligarchies become killers of masses of people and they're well on their way to poisoning the well of the greatest nation that ever gave freedom to human beings this world has ever known--America the equality country, America the just, and America the beautiful family-loving country, That's already destroyed by the narratives of Hollywood that follow an Astarte cult--kill unborn to erase genes of the founders, destroy founder statues and memorials, send information to America's jealous haters and critics, pay off the papers to carry false narratives to make their new generation of commies so brainwashed they won't know civility that Christianity teaches, oh, yes, and you will burn bibles in Hitler fashion if the party tells you to, and in time, they will. Communism has a pattern, and its followers do not stray from its dictatorship-by-trickery.

I didn't make the rules, honey, but I know what the reality of communism is, and it's being preached in almost every university on this continent by stealthy communists who feather each other's nest into power over the entire faculty's administrative duties.


----------



## Who_Me?

Where are all of these debilitating sanctions that we have been hearing about?


----------



## konradv

Rogue AI said:


> We trusted Harris had it under control.


No, you didn’t.  Another lie brought to you by the Putin-appeasers.


----------



## beautress

Who_Me? said:


> Where are all of these debilitating sanctions that we have been hearing about?


Well, sooner or later, they'll be in File 13 if Biden continues on his merry way. If he was concerned ten minutes ago, he won't be in ten minutes from now. That's how dementia rolls.


----------



## beautress

ColonelAngus said:


> Under Obama, Putin took Crimea
> Under Trump, Putin did nothing…Trump killed 90 Russian mercs in Syria.
> Under Biden, Putin attacks Ukraine
> 
> 
> And somehow Trump is a Putin asset?
> 
> 
> Fuck all the way off, lefties.  You are so full of shit.


Outta the park, Col. Angus.


----------



## konradv

Who_Me? said:


> Where are all of these debilitating sanctions that we have been hearing about?


They’re in place.  Did you honestly  expect them to have an immediate effect?


----------



## Circe

1srelluc said:


> I read today that his first move would be to secure the Black Sea.


And indeed there are amphibious attacks from the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov on the northeast, I read.


----------



## JGalt

Ringo said:


> Really? That's your question?|



Is that not a valid question? How many Ukrainians are members of the National Socialist German Worker's Party?


----------



## PinktheFloyd88

EvilCat Breath said:


> The weakest leadership in history.  Ready for picking.



I see some posters in here blaming *America* or *Joe Biden* for -Putin invading the Ukraine- What the flying fuck are y'all even talking about?



Rambunctious said:


> This would not be happening if Trump were still in office....


----------



## JGalt

beautress said:


> Outta the park, Col. Angus.



The number was actually closer to 200 Russian mercenaries.


----------



## konradv

JGalt said:


> Is that not a valid question? How many Ukrainians are members of the National Socialist German Worker's Party?


There are probably more in Couer d’Alene, ID.


----------



## JimH52

The MAGA world will celebrate today.  Their hero...Putin is killing people....again.


----------



## JimH52

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> I see some posters in here blaming *America* or *Joe Biden* for -Putin invading the Ukraine- What the flying fuck are y'all even talking about?


trump and Putin are butt buddies.  trump idolized the murdering Putin.


----------



## PinktheFloyd88

I am seeing chilling videos on Headline News:

-people gathered to pray u the streets of Kiev while missiles fly overhead

-people gathered in bunkers and rooms while bombs blast above them

-CNN reporter at the border of Ukraine where a salvo of missiles is fired overhead.

-Missiles hitting the airport in Kiev


PUTIN MUST BE STOPPED


----------



## ColonelAngus

Penelope said:


> You don't make a bit of sense.



Blood is on your hands, Biden honk. Congrats.


----------



## Circe

konradv said:


> They’re in place.  Did you honestly  expect them to have an immediate effect?


Sanctions usually don't matter at all: their ineffectiveness brought down the League of Nations, which was dissolved after sanctions failed to prevent or end any of the aggressive moves by Italy, Spain, and Germany in the 1930s. Our severe sanctions against Japan's war in Manchuria provoked the attack on Pearl Harbor.
**********************************************************************************

The 'Nuclear Option': What Is SWIFT And What Happens If Russia Is Cut Off From It?   (Radio Free Europe)
 there is one option that is reportedly on the short list: cutting Russia off from the global electronic-payment-messaging system known as SWIFT.
It would be an unprecedented move against one of the world's major economies.
The White House has not confirmed it is threatening to disconnect Russian banks from SWIFT, which stands for Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication.
**********************************************************************************

The thing that concerns me is that when Putin did take over the Crimea, he said explicitly, I read, that to cut Russia out of SWIFT would be considered an act of war. So let us see if Biden does announce that, and what is Putin's response to it.


----------



## Couchpotato

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> I see some posters in here blaming *America* or *Joe Biden* for -Putin invading the Ukraine- What the flying fuck are y'all even talking about?


Right wrong or indifferent the person sitting in the oval office gets credit and blamed for all kind of shit they are and aren't responsible or have any control over.


----------



## Circe

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> -CNN reporter at the border of Ukraine where a salvo of missiles is fired overhead.


Yeah, I happened to see that live --- you can clearly see and count the rockets flying. And within minutes the same reporter showed us live several Russian tanks and heavy jointed truck carriers and personnel carriers heading into Ukraine. Very dramatic; maybe CNN is beginning to clean up its act.


----------



## Ringo

Penelope said:


> Putin has it out of control.


Whose control?


----------



## PinktheFloyd88

Couchpotato said:


> Right wrong or indifferent the person sitting in the oval office gets credit and blamed for all kind of shit they are and aren't responsible or have any control over.


Sure. Gas prices, weather outages, stock prices, all sorts of shit...IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY.

Not some war over on the other side of the planet caused by a madman. Absolutely absurd to blame America for this

Get onboard with America or go to Russia!


----------



## Circe

JGalt said:


> Is that not a valid question? How many Ukrainians are members of the National Socialist German Worker's Party?


No. Not of interest. This war is about adding territory and global importance to Russia: right or left politics are not in it.


----------



## JimH52

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> I am seeing chilling videos on Headline News:
> 
> -people gathered to pray u the streets of Kiev while missiles fly overhead
> 
> -people gathered in bunkers and rooms while bombs blast above them
> 
> -CNN reporter at the border of Ukraine where a salvo of missiles is fired overhead.
> 
> -Missiles hitting the airport in Kiev
> 
> 
> PUTIN MUST BE STOPPED


Putin is the Hitler of the 21st Century.


----------



## Ringo

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> I am seeing chilling videos on Headline News people gathered to pray u the streets of Kiev while missiles fly overhead
> -people gathered in bunkers and rooms while bombs blast above them
> -CNN reporter at the border of Ukraine where a salvo of missiles is fired overhead.
> -Missiles hitting the airport in Kiev
> PUTIN MUST BE STOPPED


And where were you when Donbass was shelled for 8 years, you hypocrite?
And by the way, strikes are now being carried out ONLY on military facilities.


----------



## JGalt

JimH52 said:


> The MAGA world will celebrate today.  Their hero...Putin is killing people....again.



*Wouldn't have happened under Trump, BidenTard.
*


----------



## beautress

*Twenty-Fifth Amendment*​Twenty-Fifth Amendment Annotated
Section 1  In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.​Section 2  Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.​Section 3  Whenever the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President​Section 4  Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.​
Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

The above was written BEFORE the Speaker of the House became a former card-carrying communist very early in life and was a member of a MOB family. 

She has waived the responsibility of equality of each representative, has discredited with copious lies a former President of the United States in a conspiracy headed by Hillary Rodham Clinton, whose early life included a glowing Master's thesis in full rapport with the Alinsky method of converting a free nation to a fully communist-controled oligarchy that carries with it a history of mass murder of those loyal to the nation's earlier tenets, like the Constitution. Like courteous diplomacy and resolving issues with respect to the loyal opposition. Hillary Rodham Clinton, the "adult" plays her cards from the bottom of the deck. (cheats) She worships her education fomented by taking over with gunpower the administration building of an American Ivy League University. 

Good read to understand what's going on in the Democrat Party and why it never cleaned house: 

_The Shadow Party: How George Soros, Hillary Clinton, And Sixties Radicals Seized Control of the Democratic Party._ Humanix Books (2017) Written by David Horowitz.


----------



## beautress

Penelope said:


> She doesn't make much sense and so do you beautress. Senseless.


It's not my fault you did not read books warning of Hillary Clinton's love affair with Communism and how to take a free country and turn it into another Communist hellhole built on arm-twisting, secret meetings to fool the public, non-communists in the Press not at her beck and call, and submission to the government by decimating the credibility of Jesus Christs' teachings that require no lies, no evil, no murders, no false testimony in court, respect for family elders, no theft nor acceptance of stolen riches, teaching God's ways to children, accountability for deeds done, respect for others, kindness, patience, and pity on the poor, food for the hungry, equality, and rejection of chronic evil-doers including leaders who hate the majority of people in the country.


----------



## Rogue AI

konradv said:


> No, you didn’t.  Another lie brought to you by the Putin-appeasers.


Are you saying Harris is ineffective and having faith in her abilities is automatically construed as a lie. That's racist as hell! Typical liberal.


----------



## PinktheFloyd88

beautress said:


> It's not my fault you did not read books warning of Hillary Clinton's love affair with Communism and how to take a free country and turn it into another Communist hellhole built on arm-twisting, secret meetings to fool the public, non-communists in the Press not at her beck and call, and submission to the government by decimating the credibility of Jesus Christs' teachings


Dude...this is a topic about war in the Ukraine. How high are you right now?


----------



## konradv

Rogue AI said:


> Are you saying Harris is ineffective and having faith in her abilities is automatically construed as a lie. That's racist as hell! Typical liberal.


So, putting words in my mouth is your idea of a discussion?


----------



## justoffal

EvilCat Breath said:


> We are partly dependent on Russia for our energy.  As always, enemy democrats preen, we pay the price.
> 
> The air strikes have started.  Russia is shelling missiles.  I have heard idiotic, stupid people say the situation has spiraled out of control.  Not true.  Putin has it firmly in control.


It's a lie anyway....it's not Russia versus Ukraine...it's Russia versus NATO....always has been.
This was escalated, authored and manipulated by NATO....let them send their own sons in for the bankers....not mine.

Jo


----------



## Papageorgio

Stann said:


> 9:15 p.m. Central standard Time ABC News special Russia has begun The invasion it's not just the two separatist States they're attacking all of the Ukraine. Putin has gone insane. Now there is the threat of world war III in the end of everything because of idiots, tyrants like him. Biden keeps saying he will not send troops to the Ukraine. But once Poland does and other European nations follow we will get involved.


We need to stay out of this conflict. We are not the world police.


----------



## Rogue AI

konradv said:


> So, putting words in my mouth is your idea of a discussion?


Returning the favor. Whine more racist.


----------



## Turtlesoup

AlexanderPK said:


> Calm the fuck down. Nobody who's sane will be hurt. Banderites will be annihilated and Ukraine returns to its normal life. Shame though Russia will have to channel its resources to restore broken industry and infrastructure.


People are dead in Ukraine-----killed by the russians already.


----------



## Ringo

The West did everything to get an answer to the question:
What will happen if you put more and more pressure on the spring? Will it break at some point or abruptly straighten up and hit?
And when he did receive an answer, for some reason the West was indignant...

BTW, Now is the time for the Nazis in Ukraine to organize a march in honor of the SS division Galicia and gather for this cause all together.

In the area of combat operations, units of the Ukrainian army either surrender or agree to withdraw to a safe place after abandoning weapons. Only nationalist detachments continue to resist. Which is not surprising - they probably know how the allies treated the SS men during the war.
 I wish them to continue to resist. If the enemy does not surrender, he is destroyed.


----------



## CrusaderFrank

EvilCat Breath said:


> There's a western alliance?  Who knew?


The Brits and French told Brandon to go hump the family dog - again


----------



## CrusaderFrank

I'm so old I remember when America Marxists told us borders were passe. Well, our borders anyway


----------



## Couchpotato

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> Sure. Gas prices, weather outages, stock prices, all sorts of shit...IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY.
> 
> Not some war over on the other side of the planet caused by a madman. Absolutely absurd to blame America for this
> 
> Get onboard with America or go to Russia!


We blamed Trump for a virus out of China.   There were people who blamed Bush and or Clinton for the World Trade Center bombing.    People blamed FDR for Pearl Harbor.      This isnt new


----------



## Ringo

Biden calls Zelensky in Kiev:
- Hello, is this Ukraine?
So far, yes, but please, speak faster!


----------



## EvilCat Breath

JimH52 said:


> The MAGA world will celebrate today.  Their hero...Putin is killing people....again.


Of course not.   Now if he was killing democrats.  That's different.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe

AzogtheDefiler said:


> How long before the Leftists blame Trump for this too….


I thought they already did.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe

JimH52 said:


> The MAGA world will celebrate today.  Their hero...Putin is killing people....again.


Is Poopy Pants ready to go "toe-to-toe with Putin"?...lol. He said Putin is scared of him.  You still think Putin is scared??


----------



## Ringo

Something tells me that this year the United States will finally refuse to support the UN resolution condemning the glorification of nazism in proud solitude...


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe

SavannahMann said:


> What happened to all the RW assurances that Putin was not going into Ukraine and the claim that he was just proved how much of a liar Biden was?


What happened to Putin being afraid of Biden?...lol


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe

night_son said:


> During the Cold War the Soviet military had plans to infiltrate the US with backpack nuke wearing commandos. Makes for a great military thriller novel but I doubt we'll see anything quite like that.


They don't make nukes that small


----------



## Ringo




----------



## SavannahMann

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> What happened to Putin being afraid of Biden?...lol



I never said he was. But for days on here, we’ve seen people downplay the threat, and then explain that Putin wouldn’t invade, he was already getting what he wanted, or he was setting up to defend from the warmongers, or the industrialists, or whatever shadowy cabal was there. 

My opinion has been consistent. We must resist it. We must take the initiative, and stand up. We must stop the aggression here. The costs today would not be nothing, but the costs tomorrow, when Putin continues heading west, and gobbling up more nations, with similarly weak and idiotic excuses, would be much higher.


----------



## Ringo

Translated from russian.

War. Objectively, American imperialism plays the first fiddle in the events unfolding in Ukraine now. It is American imperialism that is currently benefiting from the war in the region for many reasons.

But we should also thank the "native" domestic bourgeoisie for this war. The situation in the post-Soviet space deteriorated after the destruction of the USSR so much that Ukrainian (with the political support of the West) and Russian oligarchs began to sort out relations with each other with the help of weapons.

Blood has been pouring in Ukraine for 8 years. And now, very likely, we will see a full-scale military conflict with the mass death of Russian and Ukrainian citizens, the outcome of which is not clear. Although it is already possible to foresee that the impoverishment of ordinary workers in both countries will accelerate in the near future.

In addition, the war is an excellent reason to tighten the screws, strengthen the repressive apparatus, justify further "belt tightening" for workers. A lot can be attributed to the war.

The other day, President Putin, according to tradition, once again accused the Bolsheviks and Lenin of destroying "historical Russia." But the Soviet Union, under anti-Soviet nationalist slogans, promising "spiritual revival" and an increase in living standards, was destroyed not by communists, but by nationalists. The goal of these traitors and counter-revolutionaries who broke into the highest echelons of power was the same - the restoration of capitalism and personal enrichment.

Among them, by the way, was Boris Yeltsin, beloved by the Russian oligarchy. Recall the words he uttered in the US Congress in the summer of 1992:

"Our states represented two poles, two extreme opposites. They wanted to make us irreconcilable enemies, and this had the most tragic effect on the fate of humanity. The world was shaken by storms of confrontation, it was close to exploding, dying and not being resurrected. Now this diabolical scenario is a thing of the past. Reason prevails in the fight against insanity. The period when America and Russia held each other at gunpoint and were ready to pull the trigger at any moment has ended."

"The world can breathe easy: the communist idol, which sowed social discord, hostility and unprecedented cruelty everywhere on earth, which inspired fear in the human community, has collapsed. Collapsed forever. And I am here to assure you: on our earth we will not let him rise again!"

"I am proud that the Russian people found the strength and managed to throw off the heavy weight of the totalitarian system. I am proud to speak here on behalf of a great nation that is regaining its dignity. I bow down to a simple Russian who saved his soul in the most difficult trials and is going to incredible hardships today in the name of the revival of his homeland. Russia has finally made a choice in favor of civilization, common sense, and universal human experience. I am convinced that our people will surely master this difficult path."

Well, how? What are the results of 30 years of capitalism in Russia? you did not want "Soviet totalitarianism", the Warsaw Pact and an economy with public ownership of the means of production? Get NATO at the borders, a "market" with deindustrialization, degradation of everything and everything, unprecedented extinction in peacetime (a million people a year), and now a war of fraternal peoples.

There is only one way to stop all wars on the planet. A revolutionary change of economic formation. There are no other ways.

"Wars with all their disasters are generated by capitalism, which enslaves millions of workers, intensifies the struggle between nations and turns the slaves of capital into cannon fodder. Only the world socialist army of the revolutionary proletariat is able to put an end to this oppression and enslavement of the masses, these slaughterhouses of slaves for the sake of the interests of slave owners." V.I. Lenin.


----------



## Couchpotato

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> Sure. Gas prices, weather outages, stock prices, all sorts of shit...IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY.
> 
> Not some war over on the other side of the planet caused by a madman. Absolutely absurd to blame America for this
> 
> Get onboard with America or go to Russia!



Can you honestly say that if the other guy were in office that most people (at least most people on this board) wouldnt have a polar opposite take on the exact events that are currently unfolding?    

There would be an infinite number of threads about how Trump was in cahoots with Putin and they were going to split the spoils of this war, and Putin only did this because he knew his buddy in the WH wouldn't do anything about it.     blah blah  etc. etc.  

Bottom line unless this drags us into a hot or cold war with Russia (which would make no sense frankly) the Russian war with Ukraine doesn't have much effect on US citizens regardless of who's in office.


----------



## Mr Natural

Hitler/Poland=Putin/Ukraine

Japan/China=China/Taiwan

And away we go!  But this time around, everybody’s got nukes.


----------



## iceberg

well this just got strange...





__





						Fighting breaks out near Chernobyl, leading to fears of nuclear contamination over Europe
					





					www.msn.com


----------



## Penelope

beautress said:


> It's not my fault you did not read books warning of Hillary Clinton's love affair with Communism and how to take a free country and turn it into another Communist hellhole built on arm-twisting, secret meetings to fool the public, non-communists in the Press not at her beck and call, and submission to the government by decimating the credibility of Jesus Christs' teachings that require no lies, no evil, no murders, no false testimony in court, respect for family elders, no theft nor acceptance of stolen riches, teaching God's ways to children, accountability for deeds done, respect for others, kindness, patience, and pity on the poor, food for the hungry, equality, and rejection of chronic evil-doers including leaders who hate the majority of people in the country.


One is whacko and it isn't me. I am an atheist. In the holy book are incest, genocide and taking of women that who have not known a man.  There is were many Jesus in the first century.


----------



## Penelope

konradv said:


> No, you didn’t.  Another lie brought to you by the Putin-appeasers.


Most of the republicans are on communist Russian's side.


----------



## Delldude

EvilCat Breath said:


> The weakest leadership in history.  Ready for picking.


"Putin is a genius"


----------



## beautress

Putin isn't just going to invade the Ukraine. He claims he is just gonna take away a few small satellites like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and the Ukraine because they were once a part of the Russian empire under Stalin. 

He is NOT TELLING YOU he knows Europe and England will fight back. PUTIN IS NOT TELLING YOU HIS REAL GOAL.  i WILL TELL YOU. When he's done with the Baltic countries and western Europe, he's going after the Allies to the last country in Europe. He will have to go after Europe, because the Europeans in Britain, France, and Germany will not go down without a massive sacrifice of the heart and soul of America's allies. When he's done mopping up with an unprepared European Continent including Islands in the Atlantic, He will go after South and North America because China is backing him with money they stole from Americans by producing Mr. Coffee coffeepots that leak the hell all over the floor when a sleepyhead tries to pour her first cuppa of the day. <muffled chuckle> And when he pockets all that cash, China will have little to go on to feed their current overblown military with, and Putin may play the waiting game with China until they incorporate their ancient satellite countries that are currently USA allies, and following the expropriation of all Northern Europe, he will use their worldwide goodiwll to smother China and kill off more Chinese than Mao did (only 100 million scalps under Mao's belt) 

IOW, Putin is willing to kill all nonRussians in the USA, Canada, Mexico, he wants the world, baby, and if we don't stop him soon, he will blitz his old satellites with his Terminator Tanks who they've only admitted will level targets 325 miles away. Big Lie. He's working on his own eye in the sky and will level any country that doesn't say "yowsa, massa." He will kill anyone who has dark skin and anyone who doesn't have blue eyes. I can't exactly say "wait and see," because most of us will not be around to see if you let Putin get away with murder Stalin already murdered 20-60 million Ukrainian. In fact, Kiev has a mass population withdrawal going on right now. Nobody wants to get ripped to shreds by quasi-nukes comming out of those guns that can trigger a lot further than what the specs say. Putin is another Hitler, but he has the Terminator at his disposal and ours.


----------



## iceberg

Penelope said:


> Most of the republicans are on communist Russian's side.


i'd paypal you a dollar to say something intelligent.

my doller is safe.


----------



## beautress

Penelope said:


> One is whacko and it isn't me. I am an atheist. In the holy book are incest, genocide and taking of women that who have not known a man.  There is were many Jesus in the first century.


I don't have time to watch you shoot yourself in the foot Penelope. You're on ignore for being a disgrace to intelligence.


----------



## beautress

Penelope said:


> Most of the republicans are on communist Russian's side.


That's a god-forsaken lie and you know it, Traitor. How's the weather in Moscow, toots.


----------



## EvilCat Breath

Delldude said:


> "Putin is a genius"


Is there something wrong with telling the truth?


----------



## Rogue AI

Mr Clean said:


> Hitler/Poland=Putin/Ukraine
> 
> Japan/China=China/Taiwan
> 
> And away we go!


Not even close.

Russian expansion is a core tenet in their defense strategy dating back centuries. The crux of the strategy is to make enemies bleed for every inch on the way to the motherland. At some point the assault will stall and winter will set in. 

As to China, they fully expect that the One China agreement will be honored.  In their eyes Taiwan is rightfully theirs. According to Mao it could wait 100 years, so long as they never declared independence. When that was said China was a third world nation will little or no real capability to take it. Times have changed and leaving Taiwan is more an albatross around their neck if they want continue to expand their influence in the region.


----------



## Delldude

EvilCat Breath said:


> Is there something wrong with telling the truth?


The 'Genius' saw the same opportunity he saw under Obama, and now, with Obama in his third term, he, once again, made an ass out of the Obama administration's resolve.


----------



## Delldude




----------



## Mindful

beautress said:


> I don't have time to watch you shoot yourself in the foot Penelope. You're on ignore for being a disgrace to intelligence.



She’s legendary, isn’t she?


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe

SavannahMann said:


> I never said he was. But for days on here, we’ve seen people downplay the threat, and then explain that Putin wouldn’t invade, he was already getting what he wanted, or he was setting up to defend from the warmongers, or the industrialists, or whatever shadowy cabal was there.
> 
> My opinion has been consistent. We must resist it. We must take the initiative, and stand up. We must stop the aggression here. The costs today would not be nothing, but the costs tomorrow, when Putin continues heading west, and gobbling up more nations, with similarly weak and idiotic excuses, would be much higher.


Uh, no.  It was the Lefturds calling Biden a genius for forcing Putin to back down


----------



## Delldude

beautress said:


> I don't have time to watch you shoot yourself in the foot Penelope. You're on ignore for being a disgrace to intelligence.


If you are replying, sure looks like she ain't on ignore......Duh.

People who use 'ignore' always peek.


----------



## beautress

🇹🇷 Penelope 🚫* "You are ignoring content by this member."*


----------



## Mindful

Delldude said:


> If you are replying, sure looks like she ain't on ignore......Duh.
> 
> People who use 'ignore' always peek.



Because there are always # alerts.


----------



## AlexanderPK

Turtlesoup said:


> People are dead in Ukraine-----killed by the russians already.


You always forget about those many in the east of Ukraine who were killed through the years of nationalistic terror. Why is that?


----------



## Delldude

Mindful said:


> Because there are always # alerts.


OK...I don't play ignore......a liberal head in the sand tool.


----------



## beautress

Mr Clean said:


> Hitler/Poland=Putin/Ukraine​
> Japan/China=China/Taiwan
> 
> And away we go!  But this time around, everybody’s got nukes.


Yeah, nukes and no Eisenhower, strategist extraordinaire. Hopefully, the Military has a clone of Eisenhower with a 200+infinity iq. Meanwhile, I'm going to remember what the Lord told Joshua after Moses died.
coast.


*5 There shall not any man be able to stand before thee all the days of thy life:*​* as I was with Moses, so I will be with thee: *​*I will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.*​​*6 Be strong and of a good courage: for unto this people shalt thou divide for an inheritance the land,*​*which I sware unto their fathers to give them.*​​*7 Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law,*​*which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it to the right hand or to the left,*​*that thou mayest prosper whithersoever thou goest.*​​*8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth;*​*but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein:*​*for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.*​​*9 Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage;*​​*be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed:*​​*for the LORD thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest.*​*❄️ ✝️ ❄️*​​​*May our American Generals know that with God, we can beat up bullies,

 trick the Terminators, discourage evil-doers, discipline evil-doers, 

and transform evil-doers into persons of strict belief in the goodness of God and his spirit of good winning over evil, 

as the pilgrims did, as George Washington did, and as Christian America did and is still doing. *
​*May God be on our side and gather together believers against those who never knew what the power of God is.*
​*God is the hope and strength of his people who believe in him.*​
​**​


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Trump may have been a complete ass as a man, but at least his strategy of peace through strength was very effective.

Not to be outdone, though, the Xiden strategy of pieces through weakness is proving just as effective.

He was installed by the globalists for a purpose - to weaken us internally and remove us as a power on the world stage. I'd say that the dotard has exceeded expections in that regard.


----------



## beautress

Delldude said:


> If you are replying, sure looks like she ain't on ignore......Duh.
> 
> People who use 'ignore' always peek.


I do what the spirit of national security demands of me, Deli <giggle>


----------



## Delldude

beautress said:


> I do what national security demands of me, Deli <giggle>


He he he.....


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

skye said:


> *Yawn*
> 
> Biden is still and will remain a moron.


You just don't really have any other thoughts, do ya? Can you give it a rest for 5 minutes and stay on topic?

Hint: outrageous, aggressive violation of international law


----------



## Ame®icano

EvilCat Breath said:


> We are partly dependent on Russia for our energy.  As always, enemy democrats preen, we pay the price.
> 
> The air strikes have started.  Russia is shelling missiles.  I have heard idiotic, stupid people say the situation has spiraled out of control.  Not true.  Putin has it firmly in control.



Putin has upper hand, but I don't think it's gonna last that long.

Ukraine is not small country, it has 250K active, and 250K reserve personnel. You can't just like that capture country of 45 million people.

Putin will quickly grab what he can, and hold on to it and use it as bargaining chips, like he did with Crimea.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe

Biden still hasn't taken the podium.  He's probably busy shitting himself.


----------



## Who_Me?

konradv said:


> They’re in place.  Did you honestly  expect them to have an immediate





konradv said:


> They’re in place.  Did you honestly  expect them to have an immediate effect?


No, of course not.  But not the most devastating have been put into place as yet, nor have they clearly been defined.  See today's headline below.  Maybe he will be specific in his speech today.

*Biden plans to announce 'severe sanctions' against Russia today*​President Biden plans to impose sanctions against Russia Thursday during a public address on the Russian invasion of Ukraine. | The New York Times


----------



## konradv

Ame®icano said:


> Putin has upper hand, but I don't think it's gonna last that long.
> 
> Ukraine is not small country, it has 250K active, and 250K reserve personnel. You can't just like that capture country of 45 million people.
> 
> Putin will quickly grab what he can, and hold on to it and use it as bargaining chips, like he did with Crimea.


Plus, what will the Russian people do when their stock market totally collapses and they start looking to the SU as the “good old days”?  Actually, that may be Putin’s master plan.


----------



## Ame®icano

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Biden still hasn't taken the podium.  He's probably busy shitting himself.



And what he's gonna say? Sanctions?

Russia lives under sanctions for so long, probably they wouldn't even feel it. 

Biden removed sanctions from them, Russian got just stronger. In a way moron Biden caused this war, maybe even gave OK to Putin to start it, while publicly being "tough on Russia".

He learned that from another literal moron...


----------



## Mindful

Ame®icano said:


> Putin will quickly grab what he can, and hold on to it and use it as bargaining chips, like he did with Crimea.



He’s already got Chernobyl.


----------



## Ame®icano

Mindful said:


> He’s already got Chernobyl.



What he's gonna do with it? Fix it?


----------



## beautress

Ame®icano said:


> Putin has upper hand, but I don't think it's gonna last that long.
> 
> Ukraine is not small country, it has 250K active, and 250K reserve personnel. You can't just like that capture country of 45 million people.
> 
> Putin will quickly grab what he can, and hold on to it and use it as bargaining chips, like he did with Crimea.


I just saw a telecast of people congregating to protest Putin's little warmongering effort in the Ukraine. Maybe they can get accross to their ambitious head-of-state that since Stalin already killed between 20-60 million Ukrainians, it would be a travesty to take out the Ukrainians with such horrible weaponry as the Terminators that can shoot bombs well over 300 miles from weapon to target, with the respect that information can be minimalized or heightened to suit the narrative du jour. I hope the ones daring enough to put their lives on the line for acts that amount to crime that blesses or helps no one. On the other hand, it's hard to get someone to listen who has the earplugs tightened by arrogance into the eardrum cavities on either side of the_ medulla oblongata_..


----------



## Mindful

Ame®icano said:


> What he's gonna do with it? Fix it?



No idea.


----------



## Who_Me?

Mindful said:


> He’s already got Chernobyl.


Now there's some valuable land.


----------



## Who_Me?

A quick way to end this thing is to whack Putin.  He's off the rails and I'm not sure he has a big contingent behind him.  knowwhatimsayin?


----------



## beautress

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> You just don't really have any other thoughts, do ya? Can you give it a rest for 5 minutes and stay on topic?
> 
> Hint: outrageous, aggressive violation of international law


FYI, FFI,


Who_Me? said:


> A quick way to end this thing is to whack Putin.  He's off the rails and I'm not sure he has a big contingent behind him.  knowwhatimsayin?


I'd settle for a wrist slap if he stops an hour ago.


----------



## JoeBlow

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> He cannot feel secure with the threat from the Ukraine. He is declaring a military operation against Ukraine...war...
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/1496678843981209600
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia attacks Ukraine as defiant Putin warns US, NATO
> 
> 
> MOSCOW (AP) — Russian troops launched their anticipated attack on Ukraine on Thursday, as President Vladimir Putin cast aside international condemnation and sanctions, warning other countries that any attempt to interfere would lead to “consequences you have never seen.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com


Ukraine should surrender right now. Mess Putin up royally, lol. (They're going to lose anyways, so why get all bombed up and dead?)


----------



## konradv

Mindful said:


> He’s already got Chernobyl.


Ukraine to Russia, “That you can have”.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe

Ame®icano said:


> And what he's gonna say? Sanctions?
> 
> Russia lives under sanctions for so long, probably they wouldn't even feel it.
> 
> Biden removed sanctions from them, Russian got just stronger. In a way moron Biden caused this war, maybe even gave OK to Putin to start it, while publicly being "tough on Russia".
> 
> He learned that from another literal moron...


He finally made it.  I have to hand it to a few reporters in the room, they didn't let him off easy.


----------



## lg325

Protesters in Moscow were quickly taken off the street. No opposition to Putin's plans is allowed.  Things look bad. Looks like China is stepping up its aggression in the straights and Taiwan air space. We all need to prepare ourselves and our families for the worst. Prayer does work. If it comes to global war let's get it done once and for all and not stop until democracy is established around the globe. For all those in the U.S.A., we all need to decide now whose side you are on and how you stand on this and let those elected to serve us in D.C. know it by mail, letters to the editor, online sources.


----------



## Stryder50

I haven't time nor energy to go through the 15 pages = 20 posts each = 300+ posts here, but will insert a comment or two anyway.

1) How is little Ukraine such a huge security threat to big Russia ???

2) Current best response would be for the world to isolate Russia -TOTALLY!!!

3) With another POTUS, the USA could do indirect actions that would defuse the Russian efforts.  With the senile and gutless "quid-pro-quo/groper-molester Joe" expect lots of hand wringing and at best some "harsh language".

....
If only the USA had a bundle of "Rods From Gawd"* out in orbit that could be dropped upon the Kremlin and Putin** to make a message/statement.

* =
"Rods from God": The Strange Super Space Weapon that Wasn ...​These Air Force 'rods from God' could hit with the force ...​RODS FROM GOD: The terrifying future space weapons ...​The terrifying future space weapons - 'rods from God ...​Rods from God - Popular Science​Images for *rods from god = rods from god at DuckDuckGo
.....
** If the NSA doesn't have  a fairly close placement for where Putin is, then they aren't earning their pay.*


----------



## Who_Me?

Trump falsely blames Russia's invasion of Ukraine on 'rigged election' in the US before Fox News cut him off​
The bloated one is completely derailed.  It must have been all of that Hydroxychloroquine that he self-administered.


----------



## JimH52

EvilCat Breath said:


> Of course not.   Now if he was killing democrats.  That's different.


YOU LOVE PUTIN!  MAGA IS A RUSSIAN ASSET.


----------



## Rambunctious

So let me get this straight...Biden placed sanctions on Russia...and he said today it may take months for Putin to feel those sanctions...but our gas is going up by the minute...so he has in effect placed sanctions on us....not Russia....and China says they will back up the Russian economy anyway...and when asked about that Joe said no comment....while our gas and food keep rising in costs... 

Screw you Biden voters all to hell....


----------



## JimH52

Who_Me? said:


> Trump falsely blames Russia's invasion of Ukraine on 'rigged election' in the US before Fox News cut him off​
> The bloated one is completely derailed.  It must have been all of that Hydroxychloroquine that he self-administered.


He is sounding like a Russian asset more and more each day....and yet MAGA idiots...eat his feces.


----------



## JimH52

Rambunctious said:


> So let me get this straight...Biden placed sanctions on Russia...and he said today it may take months for Putin to feel those sanctions...but our gas is going up by the minute...so he has in effect placed sanctions on us....not Russia....and China says they will back up the Russian economy anyway...and when asked about that Joe said no comment....while our gas and food keep rising in costs...
> 
> Screw you Biden voters all to hell....


You are just another Putin loving MAGA idiot!


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> Sorry buddy, you have always been one of my favorite members, but the establishment propaganda has affected your ability to think clearly.



Remember that video I posted last night? Yeah, I've reconsidered my position.


----------



## Stryder50

Russia, Ukraine and the Danger of a Global Cyberwar​...
*A conversation with Marcus Willett, former director of cyber at GCHQ*

On the morning of February 22, 2022, the world woke to the news that Russia had moved troops into two separatist regions of eastern Ukraine. At the time of writing, it is not yet a full invasion of Ukraine, but Russia did conduct attacks on February 24, hitting cities with airstrikes and artillery in what was called a “special military operation” by Russian President Vladamir Putin.

Just before this maneuver, _SecurityWeek_ spoke to *Marcus Willett *to get insight into the role of cyber in aggressive geopolitics. Willett is senior advisor for cyber at the International Institute for Strategic Studies where he researches the use of cyber and related technologies as levers of national power. Before then, he had worked at the UK’s GCHQ for 33 years, including roles such as the agency’s first director of cyber.

*The background*

Strategically, Ukraine is the soft underbelly of Russia. As an ally, Ukraine is a bulwark against NATO. As a member of NATO, it would be a Russian weakness. Preventing this weakness and keeping NATO at least an arm’s length from the heart of Russia, is one purpose of Russian behavior. 

But it shouldn’t be ignored that Russia has been increasingly bellicose over the last two decades – including, for example, the invasion of Georgia in 2008 and the almost uncontested annexation of Crimea in 2014. The extent of Putin’s desire to return Russia to the height of its global influence as the USSR should not be ignored.

The big difference between the Russia of the USSR and the Russia of today has been the emergence of cyber as an accepted theater of war. It is this role of cyber that _SecurityWeek_ discussed with Marcus Willett.

*Cyber softening*

Russia has been waging its own cyberwar against Ukraine for many years. For example, on December 23, 2015, Russian attackers accessed SCADA systems in three Ukrainian electricity distribution companies, opened breakers in about 30 substations in Kiev and western Ivano-Frankivsk, and caused a loss of power to more than 200,000 customers. On December 17, 2016, a single transmission substation in northern Kiev lost power.

In June 2017, Russian actors hijacked the updater process of Ukrainian accounting software firm MEDoc and delivered a wiper malware named NotPetya to MEDoc customers. Its worm capabilities subsequently led to the wiper vary rapidly spreading around the world. There are many other examples of disruptive Russian cyber operations against Ukraine between 2014 and the present.

Since the beginning of 2022, however, it seems that Russian cyber activity against Ukraine has increased. This includes evidence that wiper malware has again disrupted some Ukrainian government networks, and attacks from the FSB-linked Gamaredon have targeted around 5,000 entities, including critical infrastructure and government departments. So far, however, there has not been the same scale of disruption as occurred in 2015, 2016 and 2017.

The purpose of such cyber activity is to weaken critical infrastructure, damage government’s ability to respond to any aggression, and to demoralize the population. The advantage of conducting the initial stages of kinetic activity in cyber is the inherent perceived impossibility of accurately attributing the action to any specific aggressor. Noticeably, Putin has consistently denied any Russian (government) involvement in any of this activity.

“What is unknown,” Willett told _SecurityWeek_, “is the extent to which Russian actors are now embedded undetected within the Ukrainian critical infrastructure – and particularly the electricity grid. This would be the classic use of cyber operations to prepare the battlefield for physical invasion. In the past, cyber activity preceded the physical action in Georgia and Crimea by around two weeks – but Russia may be able to move faster this time.”

There is, however, a major difference between the Crimea and Ukraine incidents. The West seemed largely unprepared on how to respond over Crimea. This time, America has learned the lesson and has been controlling the narrative from the beginning. The U.S. and NATO have signaled very clearly that it knows what Russia is doing and how the allies will respond. The U.S. has liaised closely with its European allies, and sanctions have already begun. Blocking Russian gas exports to Europe will hurt Russia’s economy, while withholding tech exports could also hurt Russian industry. The message is very clear: a physical war with Ukraine could lead to a sanctions war with America and Europe – and that is one war that the relative economic minnow cannot win.
....




__





						Russia, Ukraine and the Danger of a Global Cyberwar | SecurityWeek.Com
					

The big difference between the Russia of the USSR and the Russia of today has been the emergence of cyber as an accepted theater of war. It is this role of cyber that SecurityWeek discussed with Marcus Willett.




					www.securityweek.com


----------



## Circe

JimH52 said:


> He is sounding like a Russian asset more and more each day....and yet MAGA idiots...eat his feces.


What is wrong with you, all this filthy dirty talk?


----------



## Rambunctious

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> I see some posters in here blaming *America* or *Joe Biden* for -Putin invading the Ukraine- What the flying fuck are y'all even talking about?


Blaming


PinktheFloyd88 said:


> I see some posters in here blaming *America* or *Joe Biden* for -Putin invading the Ukraine- What the flying fuck are y'all even talking about?


So let me get this straight...Biden placed sanctions on Russia...and he said today it may take months for Putin to feel those sanctions...but our gas is going up by the minute...so he has in effect placed sanctions on us....not Russia....and China says they will back up the Russian economy anyway...and when asked about that Joe said no comment....while our gas and food keep rising in costs...

Screw you Biden voters all to hell....


----------



## JimH52

Putin is a mad man.  He won't stop with Ukraine.  He has allies in the US.  They are called MAGA.


----------



## JimH52

Circe said:


> What is wrong with you, all this filthy dirty talk?


Putin Lover!


----------



## Ame®icano

JimH52 said:


> He is sounding like a Russian asset more and more each day....and yet MAGA idiots...eat his feces.



Of course, just like your claim that Biden forced Russia to withdraw from border with Ukraine.

But maybe you were right. Putin did withdraw from the border, just in wrong direction.


----------



## JimH52

Ame®icano said:


> Of course, just like your claim that Biden forced Russia to withdraw from border with Ukraine.
> 
> But maybe you were right. Putin did withdraw from the border, just in wrong direction.


Putin is a liar....like his agent in the US named trump.


----------



## JGalt

JimH52 said:


> Putin is a mad man.  He won't stop with Ukraine.  He has allies in the US.  They are called MAGA.


----------



## Rambunctious

konradv said:


> Ukraine to Russia, “That you can have”.


Radioactive dust must be flying all over eastern Ukraine....


----------



## Doc7505

After the conquest of the Ukraine, will Vlad Putin continue East to Poland, Latvia, Hungary, Moldova, Romania, and Slovakia, or will he go West and demand the return of Alaska to Russia?


----------



## Ame®icano

JimH52 said:


> Putin is a liar....like his agent in the US named trump.



No dispute that Putin is a liar. 

So, Obama let Putin take Crimea, and Biden let him take Donetsk and Luhansk, but somehow Trump is Putin's agent. 

Please explain, what did Putin captured under Trump?


----------



## JGalt

Doc7505 said:


> After the conquest of the Ukraine, will Vlad Putin continue East to Poland, Latvia, Hungary, Moldova, Romania, and Slovakia, or will he go West and demand the return of Alaska to Russia?



I'm sure Biden would accept a $7.2 million check for Alaska. That's what we paid for it, and Hunter is running out of crack cocaine.


----------



## Doc7505

JimH52 said:


> Putin is a mad man.  He won't stop with Ukraine.  He has allies in the US.  They are called MAGA.



~~~~~~
If what you claim is the case, why is it that only under the leadership of weak Progressive Maoist/DSA Democrat Commie presidents like Obama and now Biden has Putin acted to invade the Ukraine successfully?


----------



## JGalt

Doc7505 said:


> ~~~~~~
> If what you claim is the case, why is it that only under the leadership of weak Progressive Maoist/DSA Democrat Commie presidents like Obama and now Biden has Putin acted to invade the Ukraine successfully?



JimH52 doesn't understand the concept of "This never would have happened under Trump."


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe

JimH52 said:


> YOU LOVE PUTIN!  MAGA IS A RUSSIAN ASSET.


Biden is Putin's bitch...lol


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> If you had a thief, that peacefully broke into your house, and stole something every day while you were away at work, but then, one day, you had the day off, and went to the store and came home to find him taking something and decided to lay into him. . .
> 
> Someone saying that you are not taking "legitimate action," is just a POV.



As to your analogy...

Apparently, I never lock my doors and allow thieves to take everything I own.  Who's more at fault, the thief for stealing my goods or me for leaving the doors unlocked?

The preemptive measure would have been to lock my doors and secure my goods. Am I silencing the thieves? Yes, rightfully so.  I would be deterring the thief and future thieves from stealing from me in the first place. If they tried, have them arrested and punished. 

The fact that I may have committed thievery myself should not absolve the thieves of their behavior. It does not absolve me of doing what I can within the law to take them off the streets.


----------



## Stryder50

JimH52 said:


> YOU LOVE PUTIN!  MAGA IS A RUSSIAN ASSET.


BOLLOCKS!

No, it is parasitic scum like you whom are the "Russian" assets here in our nation seeking to tear us down and reduce our power and position in the world.

I'd suggests you pack your bags and move to some other failed folly of socialism nation(s) that better suits your worthless skin.  We'll gladly exchange your useless scum for some others whom wish to come here and help build up America/USA. 

The only Russian asset in our nation is the Democratic Party and it's parasitic blood suckers like the Clinton's, Obama's, and Biden's, etc.

We don't need such and will gladly exchange you and your worthless scum kind for others in the world whom want to come here and work here and build upon the founding principles of this Nation.

Don't let the door hit your arse on your way out to where you better belong!


----------



## Ame®icano

JGalt said:


> JimH52 doesn't understand the concept of "This never would have happened under Trump."



I don't think that is correct statement. It could've happen regardless of who is the president.

But the fact is, that it didn't happen under Trump, and it did happened while Obama and Biden were in office.

Obama sent blankets and helmets to Ukraine, while Trump sent them Javelins.

So, who exactly is Putin's agent here???


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> Your view on justice, and who should have the natural right to self-defense, or the ability to strike first, as if Russia or China should not have the right, but we should?


To further expound on your analogy:

Do I simply allow the thief to continue stealing from me? Am I not allowed to defend my property or kill the thief?


----------



## Stryder50

TemplarKormac said:


> As to your analogy...
> 
> Apparently, I never lock my doors and allow thieves to take everything I own.  Who's more at fault, the thief for stealing my goods or me for leaving the doors unlocked?
> 
> The preemptive measure would have been to lock my doors and secure my goods. Am I silencing the thieves? Yes, rightfully so.  I would be deterring the thief and future thieves from stealing from me in the first place. If they tried, have them arrested and punished.
> 
> The fact that I may have committed thievery myself should not absolve the thieves of their behavior. It does not absolve me of doing what I can within the law to take them off the streets.


So you are saying thieves have a "right" to take what they can, if Citizens don't thwart them. ??? !!!

What a pile of elitist and Leftist CRAP!

A thief is a thief regardless if the victim allows such or doesn't via neglect, trust, or otherwise.

The principle of this nation is that Citizens should not have to exercise extraordinary efforts to protect themselves from crime.  Rather that crime should not be allowed or tolerated and should be expunged where and when it occurs!


----------



## Sunsettommy

Ame®icano said:


> Putin has upper hand, but I don't think it's gonna last that long.
> 
> Ukraine is not small country, it has 250K active, and 250K reserve personnel. You can't just like that capture country of 45 million people.
> 
> Putin will quickly grab what he can, and hold on to it and use it as bargaining chips, like he did with Crimea.



Russian has the second most powerful military in the world.

*2022 Military Strength Ranking*

For 2022, Russia is ranked 2 of 140 out of the countries considered for the annual GFP review. It holds a PwrIndx* score of 0.0501 (a score of 0.0000 is considered 'perfect'). This entry last updated on 01/12/2022.

===

Available Manpower 69,737,187

Russia active personnel is 850,000 Reserve is 250,000 Paramilitary 250,000

==

Available manpower 22,310,276

Ukraine active Personnel is 200,000 Reserve is 250,000 Paramilitary 50,000

*Russia* is #1 in 4 of the 5 and #3 of the 5th Land forces categories they have the largest ground force in the world.

Russia has a significant military advantage over Ukraine who is ranked 22nd.


----------



## Ame®icano

Sunsettommy said:


> Russian has the second most powerful military in the world.
> 
> *2022 Military Strength Ranking*
> 
> For 2022, Russia is ranked 2 of 140 out of the countries considered for the annual GFP review. It holds a PwrIndx* score of 0.0501 (a score of 0.0000 is considered 'perfect'). This entry last updated on 01/12/2022.
> 
> ===
> 
> Available Manpower 69,737,187
> 
> Russia active personnel is 850,000 Reserve is 250,000 Paramilitary 250,000
> 
> ==
> 
> Available manpower 22,310,276
> 
> Ukraine active Personnel is 200,000 Reserve is 250,000 Paramilitary 50,000
> 
> *Russia* is #1 in 4 of the 5 and #3 of the 5th Land forces categories they have the largest ground force in the world.
> 
> Russia has a significant military advantage over Ukraine who is ranked 22nd.



Russia has significant military advantage. Agree.

Russian manpower of 69M. Not gonna happen. 

Ukrainians are defending their homes.


----------



## Doc7505

Ame®icano said:


> I don't think that is correct statement. It could've happen regardless of who is the president.
> 
> But the fact is, that it didn't happen under Trump, and it did happened while Obama and Biden were in office.
> 
> Obama sent blankets and helmets to Ukraine, while Trump sent them Javelins.
> 
> So, who exactly is Putin's agent here???


~~~~~~
You omitted the packages of MRE's also sent by Obama.
You might not be able to stop a tank with blankets, MRE's and helmets, but Javelin ATM's can certainly put a crimp in the day of tank crews.




__





						Loading…
					





					highyieldmarkets.com


----------



## Sunsettommy

Ame®icano said:


> Russia has significant military advantage. Agree.
> 
> Russian manpower of 69M. Not gonna happen.
> 
> Ukrainians are defending their homes.


Ukraine is already losing and yes, they do have that much manpower as I posted the evidence of it.

Here is the official Manpower chart:

*Available Military Manpower (2022)*


----------



## TemplarKormac

Stryder50 said:


> So you are saying thieves have a "right" to take what they can, if Citizens don't thwart them. ??? !!!


No.

Beale and AI are concerned with the double standards in play if the UN kicked Russia out and stopped China from intentionally deadlocking UNSC actions via Resolution 377 in order to allow the other members of the P5 to help Ukraine via UNSC resolutions.

I am more concerned with the punitive aspect regarding Russia's behavior and China's future complicity in the matter. They both make valid points about America's and the rest of the P5's destabilizing behavior throughout the world in the past and insist that it would be hypocritical and therefore wrong to enact any punitive or preemptive measures.


----------



## Stryder50

JimH52 said:


> Putin is a liar....like his agent in the US named trump.


His agents in the USA are the Democrat Party and the Clintons, Obamas, and Bidens.

IOW *- the socialist deconstructionists active to undo the foundations and founding principles of our nation.

Put bluntly, YOU!

* = In Other Words


----------



## Stryder50

TemplarKormac said:


> No.
> 
> Beale and AI are concerned with the double standards in play if the UN kicked Russia out and stopped China from intentionally deadlocking UNSC actions via Resolution 377.
> 
> I am more concerned with the punitive aspect of Russia's behavior and China's future complicity in the matter.


Whatever!

You still have no real resolutions/solutions to the current situation/crisis's nor means to undo such.


----------



## Couchpotato

Does anyone believe that Russia is going to leave Ukraine (now that he has it) willfully in other words without being expelled by force militarily.    That seems unlikely.   They knew the sanctions were coming since we told them that the repercussion for invading was sanctions.   You have to assume that the sanctions were baked into the decision to go forward, and they think that their goal of taking Ukraine is worth whatever economic sanctions will cost them.  Unless we have put some sort of sanctions on them, they didn't see coming I doubt (at least in the short term) that they will do much to get Russia to stop their invasion or to pull back from Ukraine.   

So, the question becomes if Russia takes Ukraine (which it looks certain to do now) what happens next?   As long as they stop in Ukraine is the west prepared to enter a hot war with Russia over the annexation of Ukraine?   Is the west even capable of waging that type of warfare at this point having just fought a 20-year COIN operation which is completely different than a war we would fight against Russia.    And even if we are can we win?   If Russia and China ally together does their combined strength, make them a foe we (the west) can't defeat?     And is that what Putin and Xi are thinking?


----------



## TemplarKormac

Stryder50 said:


> Whatever!
> 
> You still have no real resolutions/solutions to the current situation/crisis's nor means to undo such.



And the current solutions are proving to be effective? See for yourself what such Western political fecklessness has wrought for innocent people half a world away.


----------



## ClaireH

Does anyone know if it was a true report that the leaders of the Donbass area requested Putin‘s assistance? I do not trust any domestic source, Russian source, nor Ukrainian government source on the matter. I am looking for an independent source for confirmation.


I tried finding news sources from the immediate area of Donbas/Donbass (the 2 breakaway provinces of Donetsk and Luhansk collectively) but to no avail. I have found 2 out of Kyiv,  but one currently,_ Kyiv Post_, is unaccessible due to overload (I assume) on the server or disruption. From the little I know but have been reading to catch up, I don’t know if the media sources would be pro-Russian or anti-Russian in sentiment.

I didn’t realize that for years, in order to visit the breakaway territories, Ukrainians must have a relative who lives there in order to visit, and they also have to first go to Russia and pay $100 to make the visit. The area also speaks Russian and has many Russian residents who came from Russia to work. On the flipside, reports mention torture cellars throughout the breakaway territories that continue to place the people who live there in fear for speaking against breakaway status.

Trusting any one news source is like placing trust in 10 outlets that all claim the same report due to political strategy. The power of the message is amplified during wartime while abuses of the power of the message are also amplified. It seems that looking for the truth would require being there and knowing Russian.


----------



## JimH52

Doc7505 said:


> After the conquest of the Ukraine, will Vlad Putin continue East to Poland, Latvia, Hungary, Moldova, Romania, and Slovakia, or will he go West and demand the return of Alaska to Russia?


Idiot!  Poland is a member of NATO...if he tries to go there, it will be WW III....unless his asset trump is in office.  Then trump will hand him all of east europe.


----------



## JimH52

Ame®icano said:


> No dispute that Putin is a liar.
> 
> So, Obama let Putin take Crimea, and Biden let him take Donetsk and Luhansk, but somehow Trump is Putin's agent.
> 
> Please explain, what did Putin captured under Trump?


He captured trump's heart.  "Putin is a genius."


----------



## Couchpotato

JimH52 said:


> Idiot!  Poland is a member of NATO...if he tries to go there, it will be WW III....unless his asset trump is in office.  Then trump will hand him all of east europe.


Yeah just look what happened the last time that guy was in office.   Russia invaded... oh wait...


----------



## MisterBeale

JimH52 said:


> Putin is a mad man.  He won't stop with Ukraine.  He has allies in the US.  They are called MAGA.


DAAAAYYYMMMMM!!!!

Where was this guy when Obama was bombing Libya?

Where was this guy when Bush II invaded Iraq unprovoked?

Where was this guy when Obama was arming folks in Syria?

HO-LEE-SHIT.


----------



## MisterBeale

TemplarKormac said:


> Remember that video I posted last night? Yeah, I've reconsidered my position.


That video was several years old, here is one, same guy, just published yesterday. . . linked from MoA.

Disarming Ukraine - Day 1​




__





						MoA - Disarming Ukraine - Day 1
					





					www.moonofalabama.org
				




"I recommend to watch it in full.

Like me and many other analysts Mearsheimer did not expect that a Russian move into the Ukraine would happen. Why the Russian government finally decided to take that step is not clear to me. I believe that Zelensky's lose talk about acquiring nuclear weapons for the Ukraine was one of the decisive factors. Who told Zelensky to come up with that?

The Russian operation started with a volley of cruise missiles that destroyed air defense radars and missiles, military airports, ammunition depots and some military harbor. The followed ground attacks by armored forces from Belarus southward, form Russia westward and from Crimea northward. These progressed well though some tanks got destroyed by anti-tank missile fire. The ground moves have air cover and heavy artillery moving up behind them.

This map does not show the progress of the operation but a likely operational plan the Russian military might have.. . . "






PROFESSOR JOHN MEARSHEIMER: THE SITUATION IN RUSSIA AND UKRAINE | KING'S POLITICS​Feb 21, 2022

"Professor John J. Mearsheimer is the R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago, where he has taught since 1982. He graduated from West Point in 1970 and then served five years as an officer in the U.S. Air Force. He has published six immensely influential books on international relations theory. In 2020, he won the James Madison Award, which is given once every three years by the American Political Science Association to “an American political scientist who has made a distinguished scholarly contribution to political science.”


----------



## PinktheFloyd88

Mindful said:


> She’s legendary, isn’t she?


I like Penelope.

Anyways, BACK TO TOPIC: Missiles over Ukraine and Putin being a nutjob. He must be stopped


----------



## Mindful

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> I like Penelope.



You’re just being awkward.


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale said:


> That video was several years old, here is one, same guy, just published yesterday. . . linked from MoA.
> 
> Disarming Ukraine - Day 1​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MoA - Disarming Ukraine - Day 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.moonofalabama.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "I recommend to watch it in full.
> 
> Like me and many other analysts Mearsheimer did not expect that a Russian move into the Ukraine would happen. Why the Russian government finally decided to take that step is not clear to me. I believe that Zelensky's lose talk about acquiring nuclear weapons for the Ukraine was one of the decisive factors. Who told Zelensky to come up with that?
> 
> The Russian operation started with a volley of cruise missiles that destroyed air defense radars and missiles, military airports, ammunition depots and some military harbor. The followed ground attacks by armored forces from Belarus southward, form Russia westward and from Crimea northward. These progressed well though some tanks got destroyed by anti-tank missile fire. The ground moves have air cover and heavy artillery moving up behind them.
> 
> This map does not show the progress of the operation but a likely operational plan the Russian military might have.. . . "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PROFESSOR JOHN MEARSHEIMER: THE SITUATION IN RUSSIA AND UKRAINE | KING'S POLITICS​Feb 21, 2022
> 
> "Professor John J. Mearsheimer is the R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago, where he has taught since 1982. He graduated from West Point in 1970 and then served five years as an officer in the U.S. Air Force. He has published six immensely influential books on international relations theory. In 2020, he won the James Madison Award, which is given once every three years by the American Political Science Association to “an American political scientist who has made a distinguished scholarly contribution to political science.”


Watching it now.


----------



## MisterBeale

JGalt said:


> JimH52 doesn't understand the concept of "This never would have happened under Trump."



I completely understand why Jim is so upset.

Of course this invasion is Trump's fault.

Shit, if Trump hadn't let the establishment trick him into letting them steal his presidency, then Putin could never have invaded. . . . 

What a fool.  First he let's the Deep State steal his presidency, then he let's Putin invade.  What's not to be angry about?


----------



## SmokeALib

JimH52 said:


> Idiot!  Poland is a member of NATO...if he tries to go there, it will be WW III....unless his asset trump is in office.  Then trump will hand him all of east europe.


Did you notice how Putin didn't do shit while Trump was in office....


----------



## toobfreak

JimH52 said:


> Idiot!  Poland is a member of NATO...if he tries to go there, it will be WW III....





 Like in yer dreams.





JimH52 said:


> unless his asset trump is in office.


Can't argue with that.  NONE of these actors in China, Russia, N. Korea or Iran dared make a move so long as Trump was in office because Trump was an effective LEADER.  Even his own general feared that pushed too far, Trump could go all nuclear on Jinping's ass.

Biden couldn't make a plateful of oysters nervous.


----------



## Death Angel

A ti-wa




Your browser is not able to display this video.



r protesters in St. Petersburg


----------



## Mindful

toobfreak said:


> Biden couldn't make a plateful of oysters nervous.



Lmao.


----------



## toobfreak

JimH52 said:


> He captured trump's heart.  "Putin is a genius."



No, Biden is an ass.  Putin strategically walked right over Joe like he isn't even there (and believe me, he isn't).

Next to Joe Biden, a tree is a genius.


----------



## eagle1462010

Mindful said:


> He’s already got Chernobyl.


Better him than us.  Half lifes will still radiate your ass for a few hundred years


----------



## lg325

Massive protests erupted in Putin's hometown of St. Petersburg as Russians voice opposition to war in Ukraine  The Russian citizens themselves maybe the ones to stop Putin.Power to the People


----------



## TemplarKormac

MisterBeale 

EGADS

What has the US done? We are picking the wrong fights with the wrong people...and in doing so we may have given China greater levity in a potential conflict!!

Foolish! FOOLISH!


----------



## Mindful

A fatal weakness. Ukraine should be in NATO.


----------



## Mindful

TemplarKormac said:


> MisterBeale
> 
> EGADS
> 
> What has the US done? We are picking the wrong fights with the wrong people...and in doing so we may have given China greater levity in a potential conflict!!
> 
> Foolish! FOOLISH


Nevertheless. Your gas prices will increase. And possibly cyber attacks.


----------



## Ame®icano

Sunsettommy said:


> Ukraine is already losing and yes, they do have that much manpower as I posted the evidence of it.
> 
> Here is the official Manpower chart:
> 
> *Available Military Manpower (2022)*



No argument there.

I'm just saying, it's a day 1, and Ukraine is defending their home. Don't underestimate that.


----------



## lg325

Mindful said:


> A fatal weakness. Ukraine should be in NATO.


They should have kept their nukes


----------



## georgephillip

*Putin thought of everything except a 45% crash of the Moscow Stock Market and big Russian companies losing half their market value;*

Putin Thought of Everything – Except a Crash of 45 Percent on the Moscow Stock Exchange and Big Russian Companies Losing Half their Market Value

"The stock market pain spread across the largest publicly traded companies in Russia. Gazprom, one of the largest natural gas companies in the world, lost 54 percent during the worst part of morning trading. 

"Rosneft, another large Russian energy company, slumped by as much as 59 percent. 

"Novatek, Russia’s second largest natural gas producer lost 48 percent while one of the largest banks in Russia, Sberbank, plunged by as much as 47 percent.

*"The plunge in the stock market, together with Russia’s currency, the Ruble, hitting record lows against the Euro and the U.S. Dollar, brought in the Russian central bank, the Bank of Russia, to support the market and the currency. *

"The Bank of Russia announced that it was banning short selling and was initiating 'interventions in the foreign exchange market, extend the Lombard List [acceptable collateral for loans], and provide the banking sector with extra liquidity today.'"


----------



## TemplarKormac

Mindful said:


> A fatal weakness. Ukraine should be in NATO.


No. It should remain a neutral buffer state. I'm fully convinced of it now.  As humiliating as this sounds, NATO should accede to Russia's demands. 

NATO expanded twice in '99 and '04, and tried to admit Georgia and Ukraine in the Bucharest Summit in 2008.

We are expanding too close to their borders, Russia is well within its rights to make these demands.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Russia needs to be removed from the UN Security Council immediately. They currently chair the UN Security Council. That is a global embarrassment, and they should be kicked off immediately.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Russia needs to be removed from the UN Security Council immediately. They currently chair the UN Security Council. That is a global embarrassment, and they should be kicked off immediately.


Other than Resolution 377, I don't see how that can be accomplished. China would veto, and Russia naturally.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

TemplarKormac said:


> Other than Resolution 377, I don't see how that can be accomplished. China would veto, and Russia naturally.


Just an attempt to exploit a technicality, from what I read.

Russia never went through the formal process of being admitted to the UN or added to the Security Council.They basically slid into both positions by edict and took the USSR's spots

Possibly they could revoke the edict and force a vote by the remaining members, veto-proof.


----------



## georgephillip

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Russia needs to be removed from the UN Security Council immediately. They currently chair the UN Security Council. That is a global embarrassment, and they should be kicked off immediately.


Did you make the same demand when Bush invaded Iraq and Afghanistan? Putin's blunder occurred in response to US/NATO attempts to extend a hostile military alliance to his western border.




FWIW, some are speculating Putin's invasion may have encouraged Sweden and Finland to reconsider joining NATO?


----------



## PinktheFloyd88

Mindful said:


> You’re just being awkward.


How am I awkward? I've messaged you and said hello weekly. I stay in touch and say hi.


----------



## PinktheFloyd88

georgephillip said:


> FWIW, some are speculating Putin's invasion may have encouraged Sweden and Finland to reconsider joining NATO


They should! All European nations should. We must stop this madman from any more aggression.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

georgephillip said:


> Did you make the same demand when Bush invaded Iraq and Afghanistan?


Nope.

These whataboutism posts are wasted on me, sorry.

But thanks for asking.


----------



## Mindful

Ame®icano said:


> No argument there.
> 
> I'm just saying, it's a day 1, and Ukraine is defending their home. Don't underestimate that.



Putin is playing  the nato countries like a fiddle.


PinktheFloyd88 said:


> How am I awkward? I've messaged you and said hello weekly. I stay in touch and say hi.



That you like Penelope.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

georgephillip said:


> Putin's blunder occurred in response to US/NATO attempts to extend a hostile military alliance to his western border.


Nah, that's horseshit. Putin wants the influence and resources in former Soviet republics. 

Notice all the NATO forces are still where they have been for a long time. 

Putin does not believe these ONLY 12,000  forces in bordering countries are anything but defensive. If you believe him when he says otherwise, you are very gullible.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Mindful said:


> Putin is playing the nato countries like a fiddle


Huh? What is this nonsense? NATO has no defensive pact with Ukraine.


----------



## PinktheFloyd88

Mindful said:


> Putin is playing  the nato countries like a fiddle.
> 
> 
> That you like Penelope.


I like you too, mama cita.


----------



## georgephillip

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> They should! All European nations should. We must stop this madman from any more aggression.


It seems more likely that NATO expansion post 1991 explains a great deal about why Putin committed this blatant War of aggression.


----------



## Mindful

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Huh? What is this nonsense? NATO has no defensive pact with Ukraine.



Exactly. Duh.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

georgephillip said:


> It seems more likely that NATO expansion post 1991 explains a great deal about why Putin committed this blatant War of aggression.


Bullshit apologism.

More countries entered NATO precisely because of Russian aggression.

You put the cart before the horse, there.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Mindful said:


> Exactly. Duh.


Sow how are they "playing NATO"? What should NATO do differently?

You forgot to say.

Duh.


----------



## Mindful

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> I like you too, mama cita.


----------



## Mindful

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Sow how are they "playing NATO"? What should NATO do differently?
> 
> You forgot to say.
> 
> Duh.



Never mind. If you don’t get it.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Mindful said:


> Never mind. If you don’t get it.


Oops, you forgot to say again.

Funny how that question sends the goobers sprinting for the hills.

Every time.


----------



## PinktheFloyd88

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Sow how are they "playing NATO"? What should NATO do differently?
> 
> You forgot to say.
> 
> Duh.


I think Mindful is the sweetest poster here, and I respect her greatly.

But NATO is not to blame for this. This is Putin being a madman. He is not playing anything like a fiddle - he is flat out invading an innocent country full of 42 million people


----------



## TemplarKormac

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Just an attempt to exploit a technicality, from what I read.
> 
> Russia never went through the formal process of being admitted to the UN or added to the Security Council.They basically slid into both positions by edict and took the USSR's spots
> 
> Possibly they could revoke the edict and force a vote by the remaining members, veto-proof.


Intriguing.

What do you mean they "never went through the formal process"?

They are chairing the UNSC at the moment.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> I think Mindful is the sweetest poster here, and I respect her greatly.
> 
> But NATO is not to blame for this. This is Putin being a madman. He is not playing anything like a fiddle - he is flat out invading an innocent country full of 42 million people


Of course they aren't.

There is literally only one person on the planet to blame, and that is the evil kleptocrat who is about to slaughter Ukrainians for his personal pride and legacy.

If he drops dead immediately, the world will be amuch better place.


----------



## georgephillip

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Bullshit apologism.
> 
> More countries entered NATO precisely because of Russian aggression.
> 
> You put the cart before the horse, there.


The US made guarantees that NATO would expand one inch to the east if the Soviets agreed to reuniting Germany. That understanding was violated by Bill Clinton in pursuit of a second term, and, of course, the billions in US arms sales to be made to former Soviet satellites.


----------



## Silver Cat

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Just an attempt to exploit a technicality, from what I read.
> 
> Russia never went through the formal process of being admitted to the UN or added to the Security Council.They basically slid into both positions by edict and took the USSR's spots
> 
> Possibly they could revoke the edict and force a vote by the remaining members, veto-proof.


You see, Soviet Union, the USA, the UK, China and France became members of SC UN not because of some kind of technicality, but because the very simple practical reason - those countries were victors in WWII, and they are still most powerful nuclear states in the world. It's not a sort of privilege, or something. UN is an attempt to prevent WWIII. Ignoring nuclear superpowers is a pretty easy and simple way into a catastrophe.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

georgephillip said:


> The US made guarantees that NATO would expand one inch to the east if the Soviets agreed to reuniting Germany.


And Russia made guarantees it would not invade its neighbors' territory.

Instead it went to war in Chechnya, Moldova, and Georgia.

This understandably prompted Eatern Europea nations to desire NATO membership and prompted NATO to accept them. 

So maybe Russia should have thought of that.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Silver Cat said:


> You see, Soviet Union (as well as the USA, the UK, China and France) became members of SC UN not because of some kind of technicality, but because the very simple practical reason - those countries were victors in WWII, and they are still most powerful nuclear states in the world. It's not a sort of privilege, or something. UN is an attempt to prevent WWIII. Ignoring nuclear superpowers is a pretty easy and simple way into a catastrophe.


Yes, understood. But now there are more than 5 nuclear states. So the idea is a bit obsolete, as strictly stated.


----------



## georgephillip

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> There is literally only one person on the planet to blame, and that is the evil kleptocrat who is about to slaughter Ukrainians for his personal pride and legacy.


What about Obama and Biden in 2014 when they orchestrated a coup against a corrupt, yet duly elected, president in Ukraine?

If you have any interest in honestly debating this topic, you can't ignore the money being made from fossil-fuel energy interests to arms sales by oligarchs on all sides.


----------



## georgephillip

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Instead it went to war in Checnya, Moldova, and Georgia.


Any examples of US meddling in those Russian neighbors?

Which country has killed, maimed, and displaced millions of innocent human beings on the opposite side of the planet from its homeland since 1945?

Hint: It's NOT Russia or China.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

georgephillip said:


> What about Obama and Biden in 2014 when they orchestrated a coup against a corrupt, yet duly elected, president in Ukraine?


Nah, overstated. The Ukrainians did that. If this is the argument you want, then we can start rattling off the autocratic leaders supported by Putin in clearly fraudulent elections.

Do you notice how the examples you give are easily eclipsed by more examples about Russia?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

georgephillip said:


> Any examples of US meddling in those Russian neighbors?


Which came first?

Russia broke its part of the deal. Without the rightfully scared nations in Eastern Europe asking to be in NATO, they would never have entered NATO.


Again, you can blame Russia for that.

Noticing a trend, yet?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

TemplarKormac said:


> Intriguing.
> 
> What do you mean they "never went through the formal process"?
> 
> They are chairing the UNSC at the moment.


They slid into the USSRs positions by edict, not by the usual process.


----------



## Silver Cat

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> And Russia made guarantees it would not invade its neighbors' territory.
> 
> Instead it went to war in Chechnya, Moldova, and Georgia.
> 
> This understandably prompted Eatern Europea nations to desire NATO membership and prompted NATO to accept them.
> 
> So maybe Russia should have thought of that.


In fact Chechnya is a part of Russia, Moldova invited Russian peacekeepers and Georgia attacked Russian peacekeepers and civilians first. 
Sure, Russia have thought of that. But custom is a second nature, in the case of nations may be its a first nature. And Russians accustomed to fight western invaders - Germans, Frenches, Swedens, Poles, Livonians and many others. They look at NATO expansion and see typical "Drang nach Osten", they listen German Chancellor , who said that genocide [of Russians] in Donbass is funny and remember his grandfathers who came in Russia to kill, rape and pillage... 
They look at Ukrainian "pro-European activists" shelling Donbass with MRLS and Europe, ignoring that fact and their traditional behavior patterns are reawakening... "Kill them all before they'll try to kill you".


----------



## Mindful

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Of course they aren't.
> 
> There is literally only one person on the planet to blame, and that is the evil kleptocrat who is about to slaughter Ukrainians for his personal pride and legacy.
> 
> If he drops dead immediately, the world will be amuch better place.



How naive.

You don’t know all the layers.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Silver Cat said:


> In fact Chechnya is a part of Russia, Moldova invited Russian peacekeepers and Georgia attacked Russian peacekeepers and civilians first.
> Sure, Russia have thought of that. But custom is a second nature, in the case of nations may be its a first nature. And Russians accustomed to fight western invaders - Germans, Frenches, Swedens, Poles, Livonians and many others. They look at NATO expansion and see typical "Drang nach Osten", they listen German Chancellor , who said that genocide [of Russians] in Donbass is funny and remember his grandfathers who came in Russia to kill, rape and pillage...
> They look at Ukrainian "pro-European activists" shelling Donbass with MRLS and Europe, ignoring that fact and their traditional behavior patterns are reawakening... "Kill them all before they'll try to kill you".


Haha..."Russian peacekeepers"....good stuff.

Yes, Chechnya was a rebel province, as they wanted out of the USSR too. 

An ironic example, whe you think about it, given today's events.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Mindful said:


> How naive.
> 
> You don’t know all the layers.


No, Putin is the one person to blame.

No Putin, no slaughter of Ukrainians.

And he is doing it for his personal pride and legacy. Anyone who says otherwise is mistaken or lying.


----------



## Mindful

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> No, Putin is the one person to blame.
> 
> No Putin, no slaughter of Ukrainians.
> 
> And he is doing it for his personal pride and legacy. Anyone who says otherwise is mistaken or lying.


----------



## Stann

EvilCat Breath said:


> He is reconstituting the USSR.  And we are paying for it.


The USSR went broke. It was an evil empire headed by a murderous KGB oligarchy, unfortunately that didn't die, they became the leaders of the democratic farce of a government they have now.


----------



## Stann

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> No, Putin is the one person to blame.
> 
> No Putin, no slaughter of Ukrainians.
> 
> And he is doing it for his personal pride and legacy. Anyone who says otherwise is mistaken or lying.


He is doing it because he's a psychopath and he believes it's patriotic to subject other peoples to Russian rule and domination.


----------



## EvilCat Breath

Stann said:


> The USSR went broke. It was an evil empire headed by a murderous KGB oligarchy, unfortunately that didn't die, they became the leaders of the democratic farce of a government they have now.


No matter how bad the Russians are, they are still better than democrats.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Silver Cat said:


> They look at Ukrainian "pro-European activists" shelling Donbass with MRLS and Europe, ignoring that fact and their traditional behavior patterns are reawakening... "Kill them all before they'll try to kill you".


It was relatively quiet there for 7 years, until the shelling started again recently.

The renewed shelling? Russian weapons being fired from Donbass at Ukrainian soldiers, at first.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Stann said:


> He is doing it because he's a psychopath and he believes it's patriotic to subject other peoples to Russian rule and domination.


Yep.

He is doing it for personal pride and legacy.

He is an aggrieved, sociopathic narcissist.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

EvilCat Breath said:


> No matter how bad the Russians are, they are still better than democrats.


Oh look, the troll stops in to pinch off a steaming  turd, as usual.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe

Has France surrendered yet?


----------



## Mindful

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Has France surrendered yet?



Months ago.


----------



## Stann

Mindful said:


> View attachment 606418


A statement like that from a sick senator by Ted Cruz means absolutely nothing. Any condemnation of our present at this time is ridiculous. Aside from going to war there's little we could do to Force Russia to comply with international law. There's no division in the leadership against Russia on this issue. In hindsight, I wish the West would have told Putin where he can put it and immediately moved to admit the Ukraine to NATO when Putin started this garbage. But that would possibly start world war III. By upping the anty I don't think Putin would have gone  ahead with his plans.


----------



## EvilCat Breath

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Oh look, the troll stops in to pinch off a steaming  turd, as usual.


It's not my fault that democrats are so evil they need to be destroyed at all costs.


----------



## Stann

EvilCat Breath said:


> No matter how bad the Russians are, they are still better than democrats.


You are a disgrace as far as Americans go. Maybe you're a Russian plant, I don't know. But hatred like that is not an American value, it is not a Christian value, nor is it a human value of any worth.


----------



## Silver Cat

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> No, Putin is the one person to blame.
> 
> No Putin, no slaughter of Ukrainians.
> 
> And he is doing it for his personal pride and legacy. Anyone who says otherwise is mistaken or lying.


74% of Russians support his decision. Whoever in charge, the leader of Russians must protect the Russians, especially if it means to kill some Neo-Nazies, committing genocide of local Russians. 
Anybody, who, like Ksenia Sobchak, says "We need to find a diplomatical solution" will hardly take even 3% of votes in any Russian elections.


----------



## TemplarKormac

The US via the UN and NATO provoked this. That's all I have to say on the matter.


----------



## Mindful

An opportunist, watching our own moral decay.

You couldn’t ask for a clearer snapshot of the divide between the West and Russia today. In the West, institutions are riddled with political correctness, incapacitated by wokeness, and increasingly incapable of being serious about almost any issue, including geopolitics. And in Russia there is a leader who is a keen observer of this Western ‘decay’, as he sees it. The West is beset by ‘sociocultural disturbances’, Putin recently said. Where Russia under Putin is reviving pride and nostalgia for Russian history – at least the version of history that the Putin regime prefers – in the West they pursue ‘the aggressive deletion of whole pages of their own history’, Putin says. The West is too busy ‘[teaching] that a boy can become a girl and vice versa’ to be able to defend its own traditions and truths, Putin chastises. And now we have British security bosses obsessing over pronouns as Putin spies more territory for the Russian Federation. Fiddling while Ukraine burns.​
What has become clear in recent years is that there is a strange symbiotic relationship between Western incoherence and Russian opportunism.​​







						How our weak elites emboldened Putin
					

Western incoherence and Russian opportunism have led Ukraine into disaster.




					www.spiked-online.com


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Silver Cat said:


> 74% of Russians support his decision.


And 100% of Russians are victims of Russian state disinformation. Not very compelling.

I am sure 100% of North Koreans would say they support nuking America, if Kim waged a similar propaganda campaign convincing them we were about to attack them.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

TemplarKormac said:


> The US via the UN and NATO provoked this. That's all I have to say on the matter.


Putin extends his gratitude.


----------



## Silver Cat

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> It was relatively quiet there for 7 years, until the shelling started again recently.
> 
> The renewed shelling? Russian weapons being fired from Donbass at Ukrainian soldiers, at first.


No. There were shelling almost everyday. Just Western press usually ignored them, and Putin with his modus operandi "It's better to bend than to break" tried to find a diplomatical way to force Ukraine to fulfill Minsk agreements. But even his patience has limits.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Silver Cat said:


> No. There were shelling almost everyday.


Not so.

Relatively quiet for almost 7 years.

Nothing like 7 years ago and nothing like the last couple of months.


----------



## Silver Cat

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> And 100% of Russians are victims of Russian state disinformation. Not very compelling.


You see, most of Russian are much better informed about the situation in Russia, in Ukraine, in Donbass than ordinary Americans or Europeans. They live there, they communicate with their friends and relatives (from other side, too).


----------



## JimH52

SmokeALib said:


> Did you notice how Putin didn't do shit while Trump was in office....


Butt Buddies don't antagonize each other


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Blackrook said:


> People will never learn.


half the poster here are brainwashed  sheep who believe everything the CIA controlled media tells them.they are too brainwashed and dumbed down to understand that NATO is the enemy of the world and trying to start wars across the country.Not Russia. Russia is doing patriotic citizens around the world a major favor giving a middle finger to the deep state and going after them.  

for the fools who think Putin is the enemy of the world instead of Biden and Nato. GET A BRAIN.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

night_son said:


> Well . . . shit.
> 
> If Biden his time's got brain one in that zombie head he will keep our military out of it. Well, fuck.


our resident troll penelope hated this post so that is all the evidence in the world you speak TRUTH night_son 


You see, most of Russian are much better informed about the situation in Russia, in Ukraine, in Donbass than ordinary Americans or Europeans. They live there, they communicate with their friends and relatives (from other side, too).

Silver Cat you will never get anywhere with that troll,you are wasting your breath.


----------



## Silver Cat

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Not so.
> 
> Relatively quiet for almost 7 years.
> 
> Nothing like 7 years ago and nothing like the last couple of months.


Ok. Let's read what was there three months ago :








						OSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine (SMM) Daily Report 250/2021 issued on 25 October 2021
					

Summary In Donetsk region, between the evenings of 22 and 24 October, the SMM recorded 406 ceasefire violations, including 60 explosions. In the previous reporting period, it recorded 134 ceasefire violations in the region.




					www.osce.org
				




--------

In Donetsk region, between the evenings of 22 and 24 October, the SMM recorded 406 ceasefire violations, including 60 explosions. In the previous reporting period, it recorded 134 ceasefire violations in the region.
In Luhansk region, between the evenings of 22 and 24 October, the Mission recorded 37 ceasefire violations, including 12 explosions. In the previous reporting period, it recorded 49 ceasefire violations in the region.
The SMM observed that the gathering in front of the hotel where Mission members reside in non-government-controlled Donetsk city ended on 23 October. The SMM resumed its regular operations on 24 October.
 The Mission followed up on reports of damage to two civilian properties in Zolote-5/Mykhailivka, Luhansk region.
The SMM continued monitoring the disengagement areas near Stanytsia Luhanska, Zolote and Petrivske. It recorded ceasefire violations inside the disengagement areas near Zolote and Petrivske.
The Mission facilitated and monitored adherence to localized ceasefires to enable the operation and repairs of critical civilian infrastructure.
The SMM continued following up on the situation of civilians, including at four entry-exit checkpoints and three corresponding checkpoints of the armed formations in Donetsk and Luhansk regions.
The Mission’s freedom of movement continued to be restricted. Its unmanned aerial vehicles again experienced multiple instances of jamming and probable jamming.*
------


----------



## Doc7505

Stryder50 said:


> His agents in the USA are the Democrat Party and the Clintons, Obamas, and Bidens.
> 
> IOW *- the socialist deconstructionists active to undo the foundations and founding principles of our nation.
> 
> Put bluntly, YOU!
> 
> * = In Other Words


They can all be considered Quislings.








						Quisling - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## TemplarKormac

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Putin extends his gratitude.


Putin can go jump off a cliff.

But when we are gearing our foreign policy to provoke a country, any country, we are in the wrong. 

We should be ignoring Russia and focusing on China. Period.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

TemplarKormac said:


> Putin can go jump off a cliff.
> 
> But when we are gearing our foreign policy to provoke a country, any country, we are in the wrong.
> 
> We should be ignoring Russia and focusing on China. Period.


Commie Joe of course bows down to china so that of course  is why were not.


----------



## TemplarKormac

LA RAM FAN said:


> Commie Joe of course bows down to china so that of course  is why were not.


Indeed.


----------



## georgephillip

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Do you notice how the examples you give are easily eclipsed by more examples about Russia?


More examples of Russia dropping bombs on civilians on the opposite side of the globe?

In West Africa alone, US trained soldiers attempting at least 9 coups across 5 countries in the last 14 years aren't a failure of the US war machine, they are evidence the system is working exactly as designed.

Recent events in Ukraine are the latest evidence that "The Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World" hasn't changed its foreign policy since 1945.

https://winwithoutwar.org/wp-conten...-Building-Bombs-to-Building-Futures_Final.pdf


----------



## Stann

EvilCat Breath said:


> It's not my fault that democrats are so evil they need to be destroyed at all costs.


Like I said you are one sick puppy.


Silver Cat said:


> 74% of Russians support his decision. Whoever in charge, the leader of Russians must protect the Russians, especially if it means to kill some Neo-Nazies, committing genocide of local Russians.
> Anybody, who, like Ksenia Sobchak, says "We need to find a diplomatical solution" will hardly take even 3% of votes in any Russian elections.


100% of the Russians don't know the truth about the invasion they think the Ukraine is attacking Russia it is not it's all a lie put on by Putin and his propaganda news networks. If they knew the truth they would burn him at the stake.


----------



## Stann

LA RAM FAN said:


> half the poster here are brainwashed  sheep who believe everything the CIA controlled media tells them.they are too brainwashed and dumbed down to understand that NATO is the enemy of the world and trying to start wars across the country.Not Russia. Russia is doing patriotic citizens around the world a major favor giving a middle finger to the deep state and going after them.
> 
> for the fools who think Putin is the enemy of the world instead of Biden and Nato. GET A BRAIN.


I hope you're not an American.


----------



## Ame®icano

JimH52 said:


> He captured trump's heart.  "Putin is a genius."



Are you denying that? 

Comparing to Biden, Putin is a Socrates.

So tell me, how's Putin's withdrawal (as you claimed) going?


----------



## Ame®icano

TemplarKormac said:


> Other than Resolution 377, I don't see how that can be accomplished. China would veto, and Russia naturally.



UN Security Council is a joke.
UN is a joke. 
They're all in pockets of globalists.

We should have left UN long time ago.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Notice all the NATO forces are still where they have been for a long time.



In what world you live in?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Silver Cat said:


> You see, most of Russian are much better informed about the situation in Russia, in Ukraine, in Donbass than ordinary Americans or Europeans. They live there, they communicate with their friends and relatives (from other side, too).


That must be the other 26% who aren't stupid or sheltered enough to believe that the US, Ukraine, and NATO were preparing to attack Russia.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> In what world you live in?
> 
> View attachment 606443


 We were talking about the claim thst the NATO buildup was the impetus for the Russian invasion

And absurd idea by any standard, given there are only 12,000 NATO forces in those countries and have been for quite a while.

Putin does not see this as an actual threat. He is lying, when he says he does.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Silver Cat said:


> Ok. Let's read what was there three months ago :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine (SMM) Daily Report 250/2021 issued on 25 October 2021
> 
> 
> Summary In Donetsk region, between the evenings of 22 and 24 October, the SMM recorded 406 ceasefire violations, including 60 explosions. In the previous reporting period, it recorded 134 ceasefire violations in the region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.osce.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------
> 
> In Donetsk region, between the evenings of 22 and 24 October, the SMM recorded 406 ceasefire violations, including 60 explosions. In the previous reporting period, it recorded 134 ceasefire violations in the region.
> In Luhansk region, between the evenings of 22 and 24 October, the Mission recorded 37 ceasefire violations, including 12 explosions. In the previous reporting period, it recorded 49 ceasefire violations in the region.
> The SMM observed that the gathering in front of the hotel where Mission members reside in non-government-controlled Donetsk city ended on 23 October. The SMM resumed its regular operations on 24 October.
> The Mission followed up on reports of damage to two civilian properties in Zolote-5/Mykhailivka, Luhansk region.
> The SMM continued monitoring the disengagement areas near Stanytsia Luhanska, Zolote and Petrivske. It recorded ceasefire violations inside the disengagement areas near Zolote and Petrivske.
> The Mission facilitated and monitored adherence to localized ceasefires to enable the operation and repairs of critical civilian infrastructure.
> The SMM continued following up on the situation of civilians, including at four entry-exit checkpoints and three corresponding checkpoints of the armed formations in Donetsk and Luhansk regions.
> The Mission’s freedom of movement continued to be restricted. Its unmanned aerial vehicles again experienced multiple instances of jamming and probable jamming.*
> ------
> View attachment 606437


Now, let's check 2 months ago....

Link's not pasting, but 5 times as many daily violations.

Point being, it ramped up recently. Who do you think ramped up?

Pretty easy answer: Putin.


----------



## Silver Cat

Stann said:


> Like I said you are one sick puppy.
> 
> 100% of the Russians don't know the truth about the invasion they think the Ukraine is attacking Russia it is not it's all a lie put on by Putin and his propaganda news networks. If they knew the truth they would burn him at the stake.


Who said you that Ukraine didn't attack Russia? Ukrainians? No, they said, that they are killing those "Kazaps, Mongolians and swine-dogs" because they deserve it. Germans? Germans say, that genocide of Russians is funny. OSCE? OSCE write, that Ukrainians have been shelling Donbass almost every day. Tell us, who is attacking Russia and Donbass Republics? Russians themselves? Martians? Orcs from LOTR Universe?


----------



## Silver Cat

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Now, let's check 2 months ago....
> 
> Link's not pasting, but 5 times as many daily violations.
> 
> Point being, it ramped up recently. Who do you think ramped up?
> 
> Pretty easy answer: Putin.


Putin in charge since 2000. Nothing changed. And how did he force Ukrainian forces attack Donbass republics? Telepathically? Anyway, Kievan Forces have been shelling and killing Russians in Donbass almost every day (sometimes more often, some times rarely) for seven years. Any patience is limited.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Silver Cat said:


> Putin in charge since 2000. Nothing changed


*except the invasion of 2 European countries, in 2008 and 2014. 

You keep hitting brick walls. This ain't the RT network, my man.


----------



## Wyatt earp

Ame®icano said:


> UN Security Council is a joke.
> UN is a joke.
> They're all in pockets of globalists.
> 
> We should have left UN long time ago.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Wyatt earp said:


> View attachment 606502


Idiotic meme by idiots, for idiots.


----------



## Wyatt earp

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Idiotic meme by idiots, for idiots.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Wyatt earp said:


> View attachment 606511


Even dumber.


----------



## Silver Cat

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> *except the invasion of 2 European countries, in 2008 and 2014.


After NATO suggested them membership in 2007. Russia can't allow them join NATO.


----------



## HenryBHough

Every damn post missing the real reason for Putin's invasion!

It's not about land.

It's not about energy.

It's just to mock Xiden and expose him for the weak addled thing posing as an executive.


*
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!*​


----------



## SmokeALib

JimH52 said:


> Butt Buddies don't antagonize each other


You're a fool. Keep your friends close - your enemies closer. The world was a safer place when Trump was president.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Silver Cat said:


> After NATO suggested them membership in 2007. Russia can't allow them join NATO.


Because they know they would not then be able to conquer Ukraine 

Yes, we know. The entire world knows. The only people who seemed to be fooled by Putins blatant lies are Russians.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

SmokeALib said:


> You're a fool. Keep your friends close - your enemies closer. The world was a safer place when Trump was president.


. You just tried to reduce foreign policy in a nuclear world to a embroidered pillow. STFU already idiot....


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

HenryBHough said:


> Every damn post missing the real reason for Putin's invasion!
> 
> It's not about land.
> 
> It's not about energy.
> 
> It's just to mock Xiden and expose him for the weak addled thing posing as an executive.
> 
> 
> 
> *MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!*​


That's all retarded, and you embarrass yourself and our country with your childish mental diahrrea.

Putin is doing it for his personal pride and legacy.


----------



## Who_Me?

Putin = Hitler
Macron  = Chamberlain
"I have no plans to invade Ukraine" = Munich Pact

Hitler Invaded - Poland, Denmark, Norway, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg, France, Yugoslavia, Greece, Sudetenland (Czechoslovakia), Austria

Putin - Ukraine, & ? ? ? ? ? ?

History does have a tendency to repeat itself.


----------



## SmokeALib

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> . You just tried to reduce foreign policy in a nuclear world to a embroidered pillow. STFU already idiot....


You stupid fuck look at the world today.


----------



## Silver Cat

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Because they know they would not then be able to conquer Ukraine


No. The Russians do not have problems with independent and neutral Finland, Sweden or Austria. They didn't have significant problems with independent and neutral Ukraine and Georgia. "You don't give me any trouble, and I don't give you any trouble". 
But if you want join a hostile alliance - ok, you are asking for troubles.


----------



## Who_Me?

Yes, for all of you music enthusiasts there is a real CRI-ME-A RIVER


----------



## Flash

This the Russian army recruitment:



This is what we get with Joe Potatohead:


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

SmokeALib said:


> You stupid fuck look at the world today.


Haha, what a simpleton response. Maybe worse than the embroidered pillow parroting.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Silver Cat said:


> No.


Wrong.

That is why Putin objected to Ukraine joining NATO.

That is why it was his one demand.

That is why he invaded Ukraine after the US President definitely told him to go fk himnself over that demand.

Everyone knows this. Go peddle your Russian State line to someone else.


----------



## Silver Cat

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Wrong.
> 
> That is why Putin objected to Ukraine joining NATO.
> 
> That is why it was his one demand.
> 
> That is why he invaded Ukraine after the US President definitely told him to go fk himnself over that demand.
> 
> Everyone knows this. Go peddle your Russian State line to someone else.


Ok. Why he didn't invade Finland or Sweden then? Why he didn't invade Ukraine earlier?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Silver Cat said:


> Ok. Why he didn't invade Finland or Sweden then?


Were Sweden or Finland part of the USSR, whose breakup Putin says is the worst tragedy in all of history?

No?

well, I think you can figure that one out.

Stop wasting my time.


----------



## Who_Me?

Silver Cat said:


> Ok. Why he didn't invade Finland or Sweden then? Why he didn't invade Ukraine earlier?


Remember that Trump expressed his desire on numerous occasions for the United States to withdraw from NATO altogether. He did so while campaigning for president in 2016. He did so as president. And apparently, he even made clear to advisers he hoped to make it a reality after he won re-election in 2020. Makes sense for Putin to wait for Trump to pull out / weaken NATO before he mixed it up with the west.


----------



## MisterBeale

TemplarKormac said:


> No. It should remain a neutral buffer state. I'm fully convinced of it now.  As humiliating as this sounds, NATO should accede to Russia's demands.
> 
> NATO expanded twice in '99 and '04, and tried to admit Georgia and Ukraine in the Bucharest Summit in 2008.
> 
> We are expanding too close to their borders, Russia is well within its rights to make these demands.



Agreed.  

NATO, and NATO membership, NATO exercises in Ukraine, were the cause of this war to begin with.


----------



## Leo123

Who_Me? said:


> Remember that Trump expressed his desire on numerous occasions for the United States to withdraw from NATO altogether. He did so while campaigning for president in 2016. He did so as president. And apparently, he even made clear to advisers he hoped to make it a reality after he won re-election in 2020. Makes sense for Putin to wait for Trump to pull out / weaken NATO before he mixed it up with the west.


But, Putin went in after Trump lost.  BTW, Ukraine was never going to be a part of NATO anyway.


----------



## james bond

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> That is why Putin objected to Ukraine joining NATO.


Putin's right in a way.  What good is joining NATO?  The US gives it tremendous amount of money and when something like this happens to threaten war, it does nothing.  I think it was for the sanctions before the war, but what good did it do?  They didn't put any pressure on Putin with military action.  NATO is good for helping _after_ a country gets its but whipped.


----------



## Stann

JimH52 said:


> He captured trump's heart.  "Putin is a genius."


In the real world trump does not matter, he's yesterday's unfortunate news. putin is today's unfortunate news. Prior to putin starting all this trouble 70% of Ukrainians considered russians their friends. Now 90% of Ukrainians,  ( keep in mind that the Russian population in Ukraine is 16.7% ), now hate Russia. I don't know about across the country but here in Omaha both the russian and Ukrainian immigrants here that condemned putin for his actions. There are protests going on around the world against putin. Unfortunately he is doomed the russian people to unmeasurable suffering and is trying to destroy the pride Ukrainians have in their Nation.


----------



## Stann

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> He cannot feel secure with the threat from the Ukraine. He is declaring a military operation against Ukraine...war...
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/1496678843981209600
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia attacks Ukraine as defiant Putin warns US, NATO
> 
> 
> MOSCOW (AP) — Russian troops launched their anticipated attack on Ukraine on Thursday, as President Vladimir Putin cast aside international condemnation and sanctions, warning other countries that any attempt to interfere would lead to “consequences you have never seen.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com


1. Ukraine is an independent nation. 2. Russia cannot dictate what another Nation does. 3. Ukraine has the right to join NATO if they choose to. 4. The only reason Russia could be upset about that would be it would foil their plans of aggression. 5. NATO is a defensive organization, not an aggressive one.


----------



## james bond

Stann said:


> putin is today's unfortunate news.


Biden is yesterday's and today's _unfortunate_ news.  He's for sanctions against Russia, but the US will continue to buy gas from Russia.  It's in order to minimize pain for the US.


----------



## MisterBeale

..


LA RAM FAN said:


> half the poster here are brainwashed  sheep who believe everything the CIA controlled media tells them.they are too brainwashed and dumbed down to understand that NATO is the enemy of the world and trying to start wars across the country.Not Russia. Russia is doing patriotic citizens around the world a major favor giving a middle finger to the deep state and going after them.
> 
> for the fools who think Putin is the enemy of the world instead of Biden and Nato. GET A BRAIN.





Stann said:


> I hope you're not an American.


No, RAM FAN is an American. .  . . he is just immune to billionaire corporate brainwashing, and government brainwashing.  You could learn something. . .

The New ‘Russiagaters’: Right-Wingers Channel Hillary in Attacks on Biden​








						The New ‘Russiagaters’: Right-Wingers Channel Hillary in Attacks on Biden
					

"Bad" Vlad Putin only "took over" part of Ukraine because of President Biden's weakness. So says many in the US right wing. A "real man" president...




					www.ronpaulinstitute.org
				





". . The officials in Kiev replaced partnership with a parasitic attitude acting at times in an extremely brash manner. Suffice it to recall the continuous blackmail on energy transits and the fact that they literally stole gas.

I can add that Kiev tried to use dialogue with Russia as a bargaining chip in its relations with the West, using the threat of closer ties with Russia for blackmailing the West to secure preferences by claiming that otherwise Russia would have a bigger influence in Ukraine.

At the same time, the Ukrainian authorities – I would like to emphasise this – began by building their statehood on the negation of everything that united us, trying to distort the mentality and historical memory of millions of people, of entire generations living in Ukraine. It is not surprising that Ukrainian society was faced with the rise of far-right nationalism, which rapidly developed into aggressive Russophobia and neo-Nazism. This resulted in the participation of Ukrainian nationalists and neo-Nazis in the terrorist groups in the North Caucasus and the increasingly loud territorial claims to Russia.

A role in this was played by external forces, which used a ramified network of NGOs and special services to nurture their clients in Ukraine and to bring their representatives to the seats of authority.

It should be noted that Ukraine actually never had stable traditions of real statehood. And, therefore, in 1991 it opted for mindlessly emulating foreign models, which have no relation to history or Ukrainian realities. Political government institutions were readjusted many times to the rapidly growing clans and their self-serving interests, which had nothing to do with the interests of the Ukrainian people.. . "

It blows my mind away how so many on the right, who watch Fox News, don't have a clue about how Russia is taking out these, literal Nazi. . . and are actually repeating, Hillary's line now. . . .


----------



## Stann

james bond said:


> Biden is yesterday's and today's _unfortunate_ news.  He's for sanctions against Russia, but the US will continue to buy gas from Russia.  It's in order to minimize pain for the US.


You don't know what's coming. Russia is going to really suffer for doing this and it's all Putin's fault no matter what kind of spin you try to put on it


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

MisterBeale said:


> ..
> 
> 
> No, RAM FAN is an American. .  . . he is just immune to billionaire corporate brainwashing, and government brainwashing.  You could learn something. . .
> 
> The New ‘Russiagaters’: Right-Wingers Channel Hillary in Attacks on Biden​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The New ‘Russiagaters’: Right-Wingers Channel Hillary in Attacks on Biden
> 
> 
> "Bad" Vlad Putin only "took over" part of Ukraine because of President Biden's weakness. So says many in the US right wing. A "real man" president...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ronpaulinstitute.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ". . The officials in Kiev replaced partnership with a parasitic attitude acting at times in an extremely brash manner. Suffice it to recall the continuous blackmail on energy transits and the fact that they literally stole gas.
> 
> I can add that Kiev tried to use dialogue with Russia as a bargaining chip in its relations with the West, using the threat of closer ties with Russia for blackmailing the West to secure preferences by claiming that otherwise Russia would have a bigger influence in Ukraine.
> 
> At the same time, the Ukrainian authorities – I would like to emphasise this – began by building their statehood on the negation of everything that united us, trying to distort the mentality and historical memory of millions of people, of entire generations living in Ukraine. It is not surprising that Ukrainian society was faced with the rise of far-right nationalism, which rapidly developed into aggressive Russophobia and neo-Nazism. This resulted in the participation of Ukrainian nationalists and neo-Nazis in the terrorist groups in the North Caucasus and the increasingly loud territorial claims to Russia.
> 
> A role in this was played by external forces, which used a ramified network of NGOs and special services to nurture their clients in Ukraine and to bring their representatives to the seats of authority.
> 
> It should be noted that Ukraine actually never had stable traditions of real statehood. And, therefore, in 1991 it opted for mindlessly emulating foreign models, which have no relation to history or Ukrainian realities. Political government institutions were readjusted many times to the rapidly growing clans and their self-serving interests, which had nothing to do with the interests of the Ukrainian people.. . "
> 
> It blows my mind away how so many on the right, who watch Fox News, don't have a clue about how Russia is taking out these, literal Nazi. . . and are actually repeating, Hillary's line now. . . .


Where there are crazy kooks, you are always right in tow....

Reads like a Russian State propaganda release.


----------



## Stann

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Where there are crazy kooks, you are always right in tow....
> 
> Reads like a Russian State propaganda release.


The Ukraine was one of the original countries that joined Russia to form the Soviet Union in 1922. They gladly embraced their independence when the Soviet Union ( Russia ) collapsed in 1991. The problem with all Soviet States is the 10 percenters exchange program. Most of the Russians involved in that exchange ended up in Crimea and the Donbass region. Thus the higher numbers of separationists in those areas.


----------



## MisterBeale

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Where there are crazy kooks, you are always right in tow....
> 
> Reads like a Russian State propaganda release.


Insults and slandering that truth, is all you have, because you know?  You don't know shit about what is truly going on.


----------



## Samofvt

Putin would have been better off to take over Ukraine the modern way: through economic "partnership" and business take-overs.  He has nothing but ego to gain invading a country with tanks, bombs and infantry.  It's barbaric, 20th century nonsense.  An unprovoked invasion of a free-standing country?  No, the only way to meet this is head on.

But I believe Biden is in bed with both Putin and Xi: they have played him and he thinks he's one of them and will somehow come out ahead if he plays along with their games.  NATO will do what biden says, even if some of them are inclined to do the right thing and burn Moscow to the ground.  We (and Ukraine and Taiwan, possibly others in Asia hopefully not Philippines) will have to wait another 3 years.  Even if the US people can get rid of him before then, who's next?  Harris?  Pelosi?  wow.

It's a sad day for the world.


----------



## james bond

Stann said:


> You don't know what's coming. Russia is going to really suffer for doing this and it's all Putin's fault no matter what kind of spin you try to put on it


I doubt Russia will feel it  The US people aren't stupid and are worried the gas prices will hurt them if it continues.  Biden contradicted his veep about sanctions and today he contradicted himself about sanctions.  Which is it, Mr. President?  You gotta admit he looks like a bumbler up there.  Fox News and the conservatives are bashing Biden mercilessly.

Now, if Biden stuck to his plan with sanctions and could explain how it would hurt Russia and how we deal with it, then I'd feel a lot better.  There's the EU, too.  Are they going to continue to buy LNG from Russia?  I mean what was the point with all those talks with them and what the US would do to help them?  Biden's confusing.  Just explain it in a few words and then we could feel better about what's happening.  Listening to Biden talk for too long when he looks uncertain does not give me much confidence the sanctions will work (even without the contradictions).


----------



## Stann

MisterBeale said:


> Insults and slandering that truth, is all you have, because you know?  You don't know shit about what is truly going on.


The truth is Putin realizes Russia without the Ukraine doesn't amount to much. He's burned his bridges. The ukrainians will never trust the Russians again. Prior to this 70% of ukrainians like the Russians, now 90% hate the Russians. That is very significant because 16.7% of the population of Ukraine are Russians. Russians given access to free media understand who and watch Putin is all about and it's totally nothing in the same person wants to get involved with. I'm waiting for all ports in Europe and America refuse entry to any Russian vessels. That will be a game changer. Unfortunately the Russian people are going to suffer immensely for his deceit and transgressions.


----------



## Stann

james bond said:


> I doubt Russia will feel it  The US people aren't stupid and are worried the gas prices will hurt them if it continues.  Biden contradicted his veep about sanctions and today he contradicted himself about sanctions.  Which is it, Mr. President?  You gotta admit he looks like a bumbler up there.  Fox News and the conservatives are bashing Biden mercilessly.
> 
> Now, if Biden stuck to his plan with sanctions and could explain how it would hurt Russia and how we deal with it, then I'd feel a lot better.  There's the EU, too.  Are they going to continue to buy LNG from Russia?  I mean what was the point with all those talks with them and what the US would do to help them?  Biden's confusing.  Just explain it in a few words and then we could feel better about what's happening.  Listening to Biden talk for too long when he looks uncertain does not give me much confidence the sanctions will work (even without the contradictions).


They're dealing with the psychopath, I don't think anything would have helped prevent Putin from doing this. This would have eventually happened. His paranoia got the better of him.


----------



## Samofvt

james bond said:


> I doubt Russia will feel it  The US people aren't stupid and are worried the gas prices will hurt them if it continues.  Biden contradicted his veep about sanctions and today he contradicted himself about sanctions.  Which is it, Mr. President?  You gotta admit he looks like a bumbler up there.  Fox News and the conservatives are bashing Biden mercilessly.
> 
> Now, if Biden stuck to his plan with sanctions and could explain how it would hurt Russia and how we deal with it, then I'd feel a lot better.  There's the EU, too.  Are they going to continue to buy LNG from Russia?  I mean what was the point with all those talks with them and what the US would do to help them?  Biden's confusing.  Just explain it in a few words and then we could feel better about what's happening.  Listening to Biden talk for too long when he looks uncertain does not give me much confidence the sanctions will work (even without the contradictions).


Mr. Bond, You've said some true things for sure.

But GAS PRICES?  Who the fuck gives a real shit about GAS PRICES?  I mean c'mon, we complain about the price of GAS the same way we complain about the WEATHER for Gods sake.  It's idle chit chat.

But when my friends' kids are over there and some lunatic with a bomb is threatening to drop it on them and send his freakishly drugged up half ass army at them, THATS where we have to say the big deal is.  Fuck gas prices.


----------



## Stann

Samofvt said:


> Putin would have been better off to take over Ukraine the modern way: through economic "partnership" and business take-overs.  He has nothing but ego to gain invading a country with tanks, bombs and infantry.  It's barbaric, 20th century nonsense.  An unprovoked invasion of a free-standing country?  No, the only way to meet this is head on.
> 
> But I believe Biden is in bed with both Putin and Xi: they have played him and he thinks he's one of them and will somehow come out ahead if he plays along with their games.  NATO will do what biden says, even if some of them are inclined to do the right thing and burn Moscow to the ground.  We (and Ukraine and Taiwan, possibly others in Asia hopefully not Philippines) will have to wait another 3 years.  Even if the US people can get rid of him before then, who's next?  Harris?  Pelosi?  wow.
> 
> It's a sad day for the world.


It is a sad day for the world but let's keep focused it's all Putin's doing. He is the aggressor and he's acting out of fear. He is nothing to fear from NATO. NATO is a defensive agreement, they counter aggression, and right now Putin is the aggressor. It's only too bad that Ukraine had it become a NATO member yet. Then there would be a lot more options on the table. It would have been more serious, but Putin is a serious threat.


----------



## Samofvt

Stann said:


> It is a sad day for the world but let's keep focused it's all Putin's doing. He is the aggressor and he's acting out of fear. He is nothing to fear from NATO. NATO is a defensive agreement, they counter aggression, and right now Putin is the aggressor. It's only too bad that Ukraine had it become a NATO member yet. Then there would be a lot more options on the table. It would have been more serious, but Putin is a serious threat.


Bill Clinton promised defense in the agreements with Ukraine when they agreed to de-nuclearize their arsenal.  What you are saying is that the word of the United States is no good?


----------



## Stann

Samofvt said:


> Bill Clinton promised defense in the agreements with Ukraine when they agreed to de-nuclearize their arsenal.  What you are saying is that the word of the United States is no good?


I don't know about that but I do know that Putin is having Russia invade the Ukraine. Let's keep track of what's important. I'm glad they denuclearized otherwise we would definitely have world war 3 on our doorsteps.


----------



## Samofvt

Stann said:


> I don't know about that but I do know that Putin is having Russia invade the Ukraine. Let's keep track of what's important. I'm glad they denuclearized otherwise we would definitely have world war 3 on our doorsteps.


What's important is that all peace loving countries have agreed to respect territorial boundaries.  Russia has violated this promise.  They should be removed from the United Nations and they should be dealt with in an overwhelming fashion by the rest of the freedom loving world.  The End.


----------



## Stann

Samofvt said:


> What's important is that all peace loving countries have agreed to respect territorial boundaries.  Russia has violated this promise.  They should be removed from the United Nations and they should be dealt with in an overwhelming fashion by the rest of the freedom loving world.  The End.


I agree but the strongest messages possible should be used against putin. I am not a diplomat, I don't know what is possible and what isn't. But I'm sure they do.


----------



## toobfreak

Gee, I just watched Kamela give her speech at the Munich Security Council about Putin invading Ukraine and I hope her appearance there wasn't intended by Joe as any sort of deterrent?

You never saw so much back-patting and dick sucking among such self-important ineffectual people.

The USA must look like a real joke to Vladimir and Xi.


----------



## Stann

toobfreak said:


> Gee, I just watched Kamela give her speech at the Munich Security Council about Putin invading Ukraine and I hope her appearance there wasn't intended by Joe as any sort of deterrent?
> 
> You never saw so much back-patting and dick sucking among such self-important ineffectual people.
> 
> The USA must look like a real joke to Vladimir and Xi.


You talk as if we care what Putin thinks. The man is a psychopath like trump, the world is getting wise to those types very quickly.


----------



## eagle1462010

james bond said:


> Putin's right in a way.  What good is joining NATO?  The US gives it tremendous amount of money and when something like this happens to threaten war, it does nothing.  I think it was for the sanctions before the war, but what good did it do?  They didn't put any pressure on Putin with military action.  NATO is good for helping _after_ a country gets its but whipped.


This is the kind of post that makes me want all U.S. forces out of Europe.  I'm guessing you are from Europe.  Countries who made promises to build bigger armies for their defense and HAVEN'T DONE SO..............Where is the international NATO force of 40,000 troops right now?  Where are the armies of all European countries right now?  This is YOUR BACK YARD..........You expect to spend minimal and send NOTHING BURGER TROOPS and whine about WHERE ARE THE U.S TROOPS?  

How about you .....if you are from there..........get off your fat asses and defend yourselves???????  

Now the real deal is BRANDON IS A GLOBALIST FUCK............And he gave them the green light because he is bought an owned by them.  In regards to if we decided to fight the Russians there WITH OUR FULL MIGHT.......Conventionally RUSSIA IS FUCKED.;......They could only launch Nukes in the end and end the world...........which is why going to fight them is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS unless you want the world to get cooked at 2 million degrees.


----------



## eagle1462010

toobfreak said:


> Gee, I just watched Kamela give her speech at the Munich Security Council about Putin invading Ukraine and I hope her appearance there wasn't intended by Joe as any sort of deterrent?
> 
> You never saw so much back-patting and dick sucking among such self-important ineffectual people.
> 
> The USA must look like a real joke to Vladimir and Xi.


This is what we have now......lol


----------



## eagle1462010

Stann said:


> You talk as if we care what Putin thinks. The man is a psychopath like trump, the world is getting wise to those types very quickly.


More TDS...........did Putin invade under TRUMP...........why no he didn't.....they invaded under weak ass Obama and now invaded under their pet globalist the VEGGY MAN BIDEN.

Time for your Imbecile to Shit or get off the pot...........put he is owned..........Order the U.S. military on Full alert and start threatening the fuck out of Russia or else......Not just there but in the South China sea............

But.................but..............but............European Nations need to SHOW THE FUCK UP.........If they don't SHOW THE FUCK UP.......then fuck them and let Russia do whatever.  they have been using our asses for far too long.........and if they refuse to fight in their backyard ........we might as well pack up our shit and go home.


----------



## james bond

Stann said:


> You don't know what's coming. Russia is going to really suffer for doing this and it's all Putin's fault no matter what kind of spin you try to put on it


Russia's troops took Chernobyl back.  Russians are atheists with nukes, guns, military and now a skeleton nuke power plant.  It seems to have been a military target and still dangerous..

'
Is the Chernobyl nuclear power plant still active?​
The Chernobyl nuclear power plant disaster is considered to be the worst nuclear disaster in the world, and more than three decades later, the area remains as dangerous as ever.



When the power plant erupted in 1986, it was decommissioned and was given a protective cover to contain the radiation.


Scientists reported on the power plant's nuclear activity in 2021 and said the area has come alive and Neil Hyatt, a professor of nuclear materials science and engineering at the University of Sheffield, told Science magazine the waste "is like the embers in a barbecue pit."


It is possible, according to scientists, that the Chernobyl nuclear power plant can create another explosion at any time and has the possibility of being as big as the 1986 explosion.


A senior researcher with the Institute for Safety Problems of Nuclear Power Plants (ISPNPP) in Kyiv, Ukraine said, "There are many uncertainties, but we can't rule out the possibility of (an) accident."



What is happening at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant?​
Russian troops descended upon Chernobyl on Thursday, February 24, quickly capturing the area and killing those who stood in their way.


Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky tweeted earlier on Thursday, “Russian occupation forces are trying to seize the Chernobyl [Nuclear Power Plant]. Our defenders are sacrificing their lives so that the tragedy of 1986 will not be repeated.


"This is a declaration of war against the whole of Europe.”


It is unknown what the effects of the radioactive area will have on the Russian occupants, and an official at the plant told Yahoo! News, "After a fierce battle, Ukrainian control over the Chernobyl site was lost.


"The condition of the former Chernobyl nuclear power plant, confinement, and nuclear waste storage facilities is unknown." 



Anton Herashchenko, an adviser to the interior minister, told The New York Times that Ukrainian troops had put up a "fierce resistance," but warned, "radioactive dust could cover the territory of Ukraine, Belarus and the countries of the European Union.”'

We'll have to build more nukes against them now.  The only thing you can do is keep a world military on them.  Can Biden do that?  It was a mistake for Biden to leave Afghanistan.  Start a troop buildup again there?  *The only thing that could drive US people to military action would be $6+/gal prices for gas.*


----------



## james bond

We've been outnuked by Russia.  They can mobilize their nukes.  They got...

Smart Bombs: Military, Defense, National Security and More​
America Isn’t Ready for Russia’s Battlefield Nuclear Weapons​


----------



## eagle1462010

james bond said:


> We've been outnuked by Russia.  They can mobilize their nukes.  They got...
> 
> Smart Bombs: Military, Defense, National Security and More​
> America Isn’t Ready for Russia’s Battlefield Nuclear Weapons​


MAD principle still exists.  If they fire nukes the world ends.


----------



## eagle1462010

james bond said:


> Russia's troops took Chernobyl back.  Russians are atheists with nukes, guns, military and now a skeleton nuke power plant.  It seems to have been a military target and still dangerous..
> 
> '
> Is the Chernobyl nuclear power plant still active?​
> The Chernobyl nuclear power plant disaster is considered to be the worst nuclear disaster in the world, and more than three decades later, the area remains as dangerous as ever.
> 
> 
> 
> When the power plant erupted in 1986, it was decommissioned and was given a protective cover to contain the radiation.
> 
> 
> Scientists reported on the power plant's nuclear activity in 2021 and said the area has come alive and Neil Hyatt, a professor of nuclear materials science and engineering at the University of Sheffield, told Science magazine the waste "is like the embers in a barbecue pit."
> 
> 
> It is possible, according to scientists, that the Chernobyl nuclear power plant can create another explosion at any time and has the possibility of being as big as the 1986 explosion.
> 
> 
> A senior researcher with the Institute for Safety Problems of Nuclear Power Plants (ISPNPP) in Kyiv, Ukraine said, "There are many uncertainties, but we can't rule out the possibility of (an) accident."
> 
> 
> 
> What is happening at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant?​
> Russian troops descended upon Chernobyl on Thursday, February 24, quickly capturing the area and killing those who stood in their way.
> 
> 
> Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky tweeted earlier on Thursday, “Russian occupation forces are trying to seize the Chernobyl [Nuclear Power Plant]. Our defenders are sacrificing their lives so that the tragedy of 1986 will not be repeated.
> 
> 
> "This is a declaration of war against the whole of Europe.”
> 
> 
> It is unknown what the effects of the radioactive area will have on the Russian occupants, and an official at the plant told Yahoo! News, "After a fierce battle, Ukrainian control over the Chernobyl site was lost.
> 
> 
> "The condition of the former Chernobyl nuclear power plant, confinement, and nuclear waste storage facilities is unknown."
> 
> 
> 
> Anton Herashchenko, an adviser to the interior minister, told The New York Times that Ukrainian troops had put up a "fierce resistance," but warned, "radioactive dust could cover the territory of Ukraine, Belarus and the countries of the European Union.”'
> 
> We'll have to build more nukes against them now.  The only thing you can do is keep a world military on them.  Can Biden do that?  It was a mistake for Biden to leave Afghanistan.  Start a troop buildup again there?  *The only thing that could drive US people to military action would be $6+/gal prices for gas.*


Why?  We have enough to kill the world 10 times over.  Which is why we have to avoid a War that could set it off.  

If they were to invade a NATO ally we are obligated yo defend them.  Shiuld they cross thst line it would be WWIII.  Only problem with that is Veggie Joe...who is owned


----------



## james bond

eagle1462010 said:


> MAD principle still exists.  If they fire nukes the world ends.


Forget MAD.  I don't think so with these mobile nukes the commies got.  They're BATTLEFIELD nukes.  The US and EU need to fight fire with fire.


----------



## james bond

eagle1462010 said:


> Why?  We have enough to kill the world 10 times over.  Which is why we have to avoid a War that could set it off.
> 
> If they were to invade a NATO ally we are obligated yo defend them.  Shiuld they cross thst line it would be WWIII.  Only problem with that is Veggie Joe...who is owned


Don't be an old fart from the 60s and military strategy back then.  It's not war, but the latest nuclear arms and smart weapons buildup and putting it close as possible to Russia.  We need to have the most modern weapons and recapture our leadership in that area.  Actually, back up the sanctions that is to punish Russia.  What other areas can we enter to put these new nukes and smart weapons in in cooperation with EU?


----------



## georgephillip

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Noticing a trend, yet?


I noticed you avoided my question concerning which country has maimed, murdered, and displaced millions of innocent civilians on the opposite side of the planet from its homeland since 1945.

Are you ashamed of a truthful answer?


----------



## james bond

Biden will be forced to take some kind of economic action and maybe some military action if these weak assed sanctions don't work.  Oil prices are up 62%.  EU gets 1/3 of its oil from Russia.  They're going to continue buying from Russia just like the US.  I think US drivers will be shocked tho!!!  Global inflation was already the main issue and just think if it becomes runaway due to this.


----------



## Rogue AI

JimH52 said:


> Putin is a mad man.  He won't stop with Ukraine.  He has allies in the US.  They are called MAGA.


Better hope Putin stops at Ukraine. Here is some interesting news.








						German army 'standing bare,' limited in combat readiness, top chief says
					

Germany’s highest-ranking military officer cast doubt on its combat readiness, claiming years of neglect have left it in a questionable state amid the ongoing Ukrainian-Russian war.




					www.foxnews.com
				




Either that's a purposeful bit of misinformation or a warning to Biden.


----------



## ESay

james bond said:


> Biden will be forced to take some kind of economic action and maybe some military action if these weak assed sanctions don't work.  Oil prices are up 62%.  EU gets 1/3 of its oil from Russia.  They're going to continue buying from Russia just like the US.  I think US drivers will be shocked tho!!!  Global inflation was already the main issue and just think if it becomes runaway due to this.


It is not only about embargo on Russian energy supplies. It is quite understandable that it couldn't be done overnight. 

But there are no sanctions which can really harm Russian elite or everyday life. Blacklisting all Russian officials and oligarchs with property and asset freezes in the West, an overral visa ban, suspending all flights in and out of Russia, banning all Russian companies to fly over Western countries etc.

Where are these 'sanctions from the hell' this old fool was mumbling about?


----------



## eagle1462010

james bond said:


> Don't be an old fart from the 60s and military strategy back then.  It's not war, but the latest nuclear arms and smart weapons buildup and putting it close as possible to Russia.  We need to have the most modern weapons and recapture our leadership in that area.  Actually, back up the sanctions that is to punish Russia.  What other areas can we enter to put these new nukes and smart weapons in in cooperation with EU?


Nukes dont need to be smart.  MERVs takes care of that.  Any war with Russia is a chance of a Nuclear War.

Europe needs to Honor their word and pony the F up on their defense


----------



## eagle1462010

james bond said:


> Biden will be forced to take some kind of economic action and maybe some military action if these weak assed sanctions don't work.  Oil prices are up 62%.  EU gets 1/3 of its oil from Russia.  They're going to continue buying from Russia just like the US.  I think US drivers will be shocked tho!!!  Global inflation was already the main issue and just think if it becomes runaway due to this.


Lol  which is what the globalist want.  Covid nonsense wiped out the small Frackers.  Big oil doesnt like small boys in the game.  Now they are getting their money back


----------



## PinktheFloyd88

MisterBeale said:


> ..
> 
> 
> No, RAM FAN is an American. .  . . he is just immune to billionaire corporate brainwashing, and government brainwashing.  You could learn something. . .
> 
> The New ‘Russiagaters’: Right-Wingers Channel Hillary in Attacks on Biden​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The New ‘Russiagaters’: Right-Wingers Channel Hillary in Attacks on Biden
> 
> 
> "Bad" Vlad Putin only "took over" part of Ukraine because of President Biden's weakness. So says many in the US right wing. A "real man" president...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ronpaulinstitute.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ". . The officials in Kiev replaced partnership with a parasitic attitude acting at times in an extremely brash manner. Suffice it to recall the continuous blackmail on energy transits and the fact that they literally stole gas.
> 
> I can add that Kiev tried to use dialogue with Russia as a bargaining chip in its relations with the West, using the threat of closer ties with Russia for blackmailing the West to secure preferences by claiming that otherwise Russia would have a bigger influence in Ukraine.
> 
> At the same time, the Ukrainian authorities – I would like to emphasise this – began by building their statehood on the negation of everything that united us, trying to distort the mentality and historical memory of millions of people, of entire generations living in Ukraine. It is not surprising that Ukrainian society was faced with the rise of far-right nationalism, which rapidly developed into aggressive Russophobia and neo-Nazism. This resulted in the participation of Ukrainian nationalists and neo-Nazis in the terrorist groups in the North Caucasus and the increasingly loud territorial claims to Russia.
> 
> A role in this was played by external forces, which used a ramified network of NGOs and special services to nurture their clients in Ukraine and to bring their representatives to the seats of authority.
> 
> It should be noted that Ukraine actually never had stable traditions of real statehood. And, therefore, in 1991 it opted for mindlessly emulating foreign models, which have no relation to history or Ukrainian realities. Political government institutions were readjusted many times to the rapidly growing clans and their self-serving interests, which had nothing to do with the interests of the Ukrainian people.. . "
> 
> It blows my mind away how so many on the right, who watch Fox News, don't have a clue about how Russia is taking out these, literal Nazi. . . and are actually repeating, Hillary's line now. . . .


You sound like someone who hates America and supports Putin.


----------



## Stann

eagle1462010 said:


> This is the kind of post that makes me want all U.S. forces out of Europe.  I'm guessing you are from Europe.  Countries who made promises to build bigger armies for their defense and HAVEN'T DONE SO..............Where is the international NATO force of 40,000 troops right now?  Where are the armies of all European countries right now?  This is YOUR BACK YARD..........You expect to spend minimal and send NOTHING BURGER TROOPS and whine about WHERE ARE THE U.S TROOPS?
> 
> How about you .....if you are from there..........get off your fat asses and defend yourselves???????
> 
> Now the real deal is BRANDON IS A GLOBALIST FUCK............And he gave them the green light because he is bought an owned by them.  In regards to if we decided to fight the Russians there WITH OUR FULL MIGHT.......Conventionally RUSSIA IS FUCKED.;......They could only launch Nukes in the end and end the world...........which is why going to fight them is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS unless you want the world to get cooked at 2 million degrees.


You sound about his childish as trump. These are our allies. North Atlantic Treaty Organization is a defensive pack to protect every member nation. Unfortunately Ukraine is not a member of NATO, if it were we would respond with military action. That's the way it was designed to work. Collectively we can take non-military action against international players who are non-compliant with international law.


----------



## georgephillip

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Russia broke its part of the deal. Without the rightfully scared nations in Eastern Europe asking to be in NATO, they would never have entered NATO.







*Georgia joined the US invasion of Iraq in 2003 which sent a clear signal it was siding with western arms-makers instead of Russia. Bush II tangled NATO membership and Georgia took the bail. Once again US meddling in the political affairs of a sovereign state bordering Russia produced the intended effect:*

How a Five-Day War With Georgia Allowed Russia to Reassert Its Military Might

"On August 8, 2008, after months of back-and-forth accusations and provocations between the two sides, and a series of clashes between South Ossetian militia and Georgian military troops, 

"Sakaashvili ordered his troops to capture the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali. 

"Russia swiftly responded by moving its troops to the border and conducting air strikes on Georgian positions in South Ossetia as well as Abkhazia.".


----------



## Ringo

In Kiev, they distribute weapons without any documents... How many years later will law enforcement agencies have to confiscate them from bandits? Stinking Somalia...  Sorry, real Somalia! You are better.


----------



## georgephillip

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Yes, Chechnya was a rebel province, as they wanted out of the USSR too.


How was that a legitimate concern of US war makers?
Absaroka (proposed state) - Wikipedia



If the "children of the large-beaked bird" had resorted to violence to obtain US statehood, would Russian support mattered more or less than domestic politics?


----------



## Flash




----------



## Flash




----------



## eagle1462010

Stann said:


> You sound about his childish as trump. These are our allies. North Atlantic Treaty Organization is a defensive pack to protect every member nation. Unfortunately Ukraine is not a member of NATO, if it were we would respond with military action. That's the way it was designed to work. Collectively we can take non-military action against international players who are non-compliant with international law.


I understand the deal. They need to man the fuck up or STFU.  Its not Americas reponsible  ti defend your ass.


----------



## Flash




----------



## Flash




----------



## Flash




----------



## Mindful




----------



## Wyatt earp

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Even dumber.


Obama and Biden get bitch slapped by Putin and you're ok with it..

You posting from a gay bath house, huh


----------



## JLW




----------



## Ringo

Ringo said:


> In Kiev, they distribute weapons without any documents...


The distribution of weapons to everyone has already led to the first victims in Kiev. Armed formations of the Ukrainian "national resistance" shot a car with civilians in the Obolonsky district of Kiev.


----------



## Ringo

the ukrainians shot their own anti-aircraft gun with a truck, having heard enough rumors about russian saboteurs. (R)


			https://idiod.video/g5n40t.mp4


----------



## Silver Cat

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> That must be the other 26% who aren't stupid or sheltered enough to believe that the US, Ukraine, and NATO were preparing to attack Russia.


I know, that the USA needs Ukraine, first of all, to prepare attack Russia, i.e. to deter Russians. It's not that there is an actual plan to deploy missiles or tanks or something. But military analysts watch the map and say: "Look! It's a nice place to fight against Russians - let's take it! " 
Russia is an existential treat for the USA, (as well as the USA are for Russia) and it's the most important question in the strategic and geopolitical planning - how eliminate this treat.


----------



## Silver Cat

eagle1462010 said:


> MAD principle still exists.  If they fire nukes the world ends.


No. At least not under any circumstances. Some Russian military analysts write that under some circumstances Russians (if they are lucky) can destroy more than 90% of American nuclear arsenal by their first counter-force strike, and then coerce the USA in peace (on more or less Russian terms - first of all without retaliation) or totally destroy the USA, and survive after their double weakened retaliation strike.


----------



## bravoactual

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> He cannot feel secure with the threat from the Ukraine. He is declaring a military operation against Ukraine...war...
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/1496678843981209600
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia attacks Ukraine as defiant Putin warns US, NATO
> 
> 
> MOSCOW (AP) — Russian troops launched their anticipated attack on Ukraine on Thursday, as President Vladimir Putin cast aside international condemnation and sanctions, warning other countries that any attempt to interfere would lead to “consequences you have never seen.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com



Ukraine is a Soverign Democratic Country.  Republicans are cheering the invasion of a Democratic Country.  Fuck Republicans everywhere.


----------



## Silver Cat

ESay said:


> It is not only about embargo on Russian energy supplies. It is quite understandable that it couldn't be done overnight.
> 
> But there are no sanctions which can really harm Russian elite or everyday life. Blacklisting all Russian officials and oligarchs with property and asset freezes in the West, an overral visa ban, suspending all flights in and out of Russia, banning all Russian companies to fly over Western countries etc.
> 
> Where are these 'sanctions from the hell' this old fool was mumbling about?


So do you feel yourself like a used b-ch? Your are not alone. The Dems don't believe in people and they don't value people (American, Russian, Ukrainian, Polish or even Chinese).


----------



## Silver Cat

bravoactual said:


> Ukraine is a Soverign Democratic Country.  Republicans are cheering the invasion of a Democratic Country.  Fuck Republicans everywhere.


Ukraine is anything, but sovereign and/or democratic. The issue isn't in labels, the issue is in real people. Republicans are cheering the end of this eight-year long civil war which can give an opportunity to reestablish peace in Europe (even if we are almost sure, that Biden will fail it).


----------



## Stryder50

georgephillip said:


> More examples of Russia dropping bombs on civilians on the opposite side of the globe?
> 
> In West Africa alone, US trained soldiers attempting at least 9 coups across 5 countries in the last 14 years aren't a failure of the US war machine, they are evidence the system is working exactly as designed.
> 
> Recent events in Ukraine are the latest evidence that "The Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World" hasn't changed its foreign policy since 1945.
> 
> https://winwithoutwar.org/wp-conten...-Building-Bombs-to-Building-Futures_Final.pdf


You have it bass-ackwards.
Russia has been the exporter of "people's revolutions" globally since 1945, far out numbering USA response to such.


----------



## ESay

Silver Cat said:


> So do you feel yourself like a used b-ch? Your are not alone. The Dems don't believe in people and they don't value people (American, Russian, Ukrainian, Polish or even Chinese).


Yeah, you can cheer about that. Your buddies are taking an upper hand. The Dems? Read people who call themselves as Rebups here. It is even greater disgrace.


----------



## Stann

georgephillip said:


> *Georgia joined the US invasion of Iraq in 2003 which sent a clear signal it was siding with western arms-makers instead of Russia. Bush II tangled NATO membership and Georgia took the bail. Once again US meddling in the political affairs of a sovereign state bordering Russia produced the intended effect:*
> 
> How a Five-Day War With Georgia Allowed Russia to Reassert Its Military Might
> 
> "On August 8, 2008, after months of back-and-forth accusations and provocations between the two sides, and a series of clashes between South Ossetian militia and Georgian military troops,
> 
> "Sakaashvili ordered his troops to capture the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali.
> 
> "Russia swiftly responded by moving its troops to the border and conducting air strikes on Georgian positions in South Ossetia as well as Abkhazia.".


Everything in life is a choice. Putin chose this
 will join NATO agai


eagle1462010 said:


> I understand the deal. They need to man the fuck up or STFU.  Its not Americas reponsible  ti defend your ass.


I don't know the extent of the defense pack with the Ukraine at the United States has. But I'm sure they're living up to their obligations.


----------



## Stann

georgephillip said:


> *Georgia joined the US invasion of Iraq in 2003 which sent a clear signal it was siding with western arms-makers instead of Russia. Bush II tangled NATO membership and Georgia took the bail. Once again US meddling in the political affairs of a sovereign state bordering Russia produced the intended effect:*
> 
> How a Five-Day War With Georgia Allowed Russia to Reassert Its Military Might
> 
> "On August 8, 2008, after months of back-and-forth accusations and provocations between the two sides, and a series of clashes between South Ossetian militia and Georgian military troops,
> 
> "Sakaashvili ordered his troops to capture the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali.
> 
> "Russia swiftly responded by moving its troops to the border and conducting air strikes on Georgian positions in South Ossetia as well as Abkhazia.".


Everything in life is a choice. As long as Russia ( Putin ) believes it is their right to invade and dominate the politics of other nations, more and more countries will join NATO.


----------



## Stann

Silver Cat said:


> So do you feel yourself like a used b-ch? Your are not alone. The Dems don't believe in people and they don't value people (American, Russian, Ukrainian, Polish or even Chinese).


You have a short memory, perhaps you don't remember trump abandoning the Kurds in Syria and Iraq. Or making the shameful peace agreement with the Taliban in Afghanistan and abandoning all our allies there. That's the republican plan, " Me first and to hell with all the rest of you. "


----------



## Stryder50

Stann said:


> You have a short memory, perhaps you don't remember trump abandoning the Kurds in Syria and Iraq. Or making the shameful peace agreement with the Taliban in Afghanistan and abandoning all our allies there. That's the republican plan, " Me first and to hell with all the rest of you. "


I think you may be confused.

Obama is the one whom did the major and large scale abandon of the Kurds.  Trump had a none co-operative Congress that failed him in efforts to reset that.

Trump's agreement with the Taliban was a public ploy to make them reveal they aren't the "good guys" the Left~Liberals~Dems portray them as (think entangling political trap).  

As for abandoning our allies in Afghanistan, that falls into Biden's lap with his hasty, poorly planned, and disastrous 'Run Away' some months ago allowing for Billion$$$ of weapons and equipment to fall into Taliban hands and ease the way for that front-surrogate of Pakistan's ISI to take over the country.


----------



## Mindful

Democracies Must Now Defend Themselves.​









						Russia's Invasion: Putin's Attack Is Aimed at Europe
					

The invasion of Ukraine marks the beginning of a dangerous new era in global politics. Europe must adapt to this new reality if it wants to survive.




					www.spiegel.de


----------



## Stann

Stryder50 said:


> I think you may be confused.
> 
> Obama is the one whom did the major and large scale abandon of the Kurds.  Trump had a none co-operative Congress that failed him in efforts to reset that.
> 
> Trump's agreement with the Taliban was a public ploy to make them reveal they aren't the "good guys" the Left~Liberals~Dems portray them as (think entangling political trap).
> 
> As for abandoning our allies in Afghanistan, that falls into Biden's lap with his hasty, poorly planned, and disastrous 'Run Away' some months ago allowing for Billion$$$ of weapons and equipment to fall into Taliban hands and ease the way for that front-surrogate of Pakistan's ISI to take over the country.


You are the one who's confused, Obama supported the Kurds, putting them in charge of the northern section of Iraq because they tolerated the Muslim sects that lived there and there was minimum violence and in fighting. He even thought of appointing them in charge over all of Iraq to stabilize the country. And I repeat when trump abandoned the Kurds in Syria,  he made isis, Russia, Iran, Syria and turkey very happy, he made America's allies doubt their relationship with the United States. trump single-handedly undermined 2 years of Peace negotiations in Afghanistan by professional diplomats because he knew better and in dealing with thehe Taliban and leaving the Afghan government out of the picture entirely he delegitimized the Afghan government that's another reason it collapsed so quickly and it was such a disaster trying to get everybody out. Of course trump set that up to unfold at the very beginning of Biden's term so you would have time to prepare. And why on Earth with the Taliban try to renegotiate a deal where they got everything to begin with. They were going to have none of it. Thank God they realized what trump had done And gave Biden a little more time to deal with the crisis that had been left him.


----------



## eagle1462010

Stann said:


> Everything in life is a choice. Putin chose this
> will join NATO agai
> 
> I don't know the extent of the defense pack with the Ukraine at the United States has. But I'm sure they're living up to their obligations.


Ukraine is not NATO.  No obligation.  Any attack on a NATO country would be WAR


----------



## eagle1462010

Stann said:


> You have a short memory, perhaps you don't remember trump abandoning the Kurds in Syria and Iraq. Or making the shameful peace agreement with the Taliban in Afghanistan and abandoning all our allies there. That's the republican plan, " Me first and to hell with all the rest of you. "


In regards to Turkey.  Turkey is in NATO and holds the choke point to the Black Sea.  You risk losing a NATO member that later joins Russia.  That would be stupid.

Id also remind some history there.  It was the Kurds with Turkey  Ottaman that committed the Armenian Genocide.


----------



## Stann

eagle1462010 said:


> Ukraine is not NATO.  No obligation.  Any attack on a NATO country would be WAR


I know Ukraine was not a NATO member yet. They have the right to join it on they were headed in that direction that's why Russia started all this garbage. Fortunately the Ukraine does have a defense agreement with the United States. So we are obliged to aid them in their fight against Russia but not send troops into their Nation.


----------



## PinktheFloyd88

Update: Putin has threatened CONSEQUENCES if Sweden or Finland joins NATO.

He is absolutely mad at this point


----------



## eagle1462010

Stann said:


> I know Ukraine was not a NATO member yet. They have the right to join it on they were headed in that direction that's why Russia started all this garbage. Fortunately the Ukraine does have a defense agreement with the United States. So we are obliged to aid them in their fight against Russia but not send troops into their Nation.


Yawn.  What good is that so called deal??  Youbgo there it is shit or get off the pot.  Which could lead to a Nuclear exchange.  That isnt hapoening unless he attacks a NATO country.  Then itsWar


----------



## Stann

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> Update: Putin has threatened CONSEQUENCES if Sweden or Finland joins NATO.
> 
> He is absolutely mad at this point


Not only mad, a super threat to the rest of the world. Today he talked of using nuclear weapons. He is totally psychotic.


----------



## Stryder50

eagle1462010 said:


> In regards to Turkey.  Turkey is in NATO and holds the choke point to the Black Sea.  You risk losing a NATO member that later joins Russia.  That would be stupid.
> 
> Id also remind some history there.  It was the Kurds with Turkey  Ottaman that committed the Armenian Genocide.


Thanks.
My family is of Armenian ancestry.  Fortunately they got out of Armenia before the Turkish genocide began.


----------



## Stryder50

Stann said:


> You are the one who's confused, Obama supported the Kurds, putting them in charge of the northern section of Iraq because they tolerated the Muslim sects that lived there and there was minimum violence and in fighting. He even thought of appointing them in charge over all of Iraq to stabilize the country. And I repeat when trump abandoned the Kurds in Syria,  he made isis, Russia, Iran, Syria and turkey very happy, he made America's allies doubt their relationship with the United States. trump single-handedly undermined 2 years of Peace negotiations in Afghanistan by professional diplomats because he knew better and in dealing with thehe Taliban and leaving the Afghan government out of the picture entirely he delegitimized the Afghan government that's another reason it collapsed so quickly and it was such a disaster trying to get everybody out. Of course trump set that up to unfold at the very beginning of Biden's term so you would have time to prepare. And why on Earth with the Taliban try to renegotiate a deal where they got everything to begin with. They were going to have none of it. Thank God they realized what trump had done And gave Biden a little more time to deal with the crisis that had been left him.


I suggest you document your claims.
There oft are two sides to an issue and you seem to be taking a side counter to mine.  
You also display as suffering from "Trump deranges my mind" syndrome.
FWIW, an examination of history of the past century shows it is often the "professional diplomats" whom screw things up and set the stage for the next war(s).


----------



## bravoactual

Silver Cat said:


> So do you feel yourself like a used b-ch? Your are not alone. The Dems don't believe in people and they don't value people (American, Russian, Ukrainian, Polish or even Chinese).



There are two kinds of Americans.

Americans who believe in American Freedom.  The United States Constitution and Representative Democracy - Patriots aka Democrats.

Then are Americans who cheer of Communist Dictator in Russia as he invades a Democratic Country.  These people do not believe in Freedom, they believe in Fascism and want Dictatorship in our Country - Republicans.


----------



## bravoactual

Stryder50 said:


> Thanks.
> My family is of Armenian ancestry.  Fortunately they got out of Armenia before the Turkish genocide began.



My Family has been the United States since 1649 on my Father's Side and 1705 on my Mother's side.  I am a Proud and Loud Democracy Loving American.  Republicans a belly crawling, Russian Loving Putin Pussies.


----------



## Stryder50

A reminder to all here, we (the West) are dealing with a part of the World and factions that are largely Islamic and have an agenda that is a mix of religion and politics.  Within Islam is the concept of Taqiyya which makes negotiating and dealing with them a bit problematic.
....
_Taqiyya_ is a concept and a reality that must be borne in mind when reading or listening to the words of Muslims.

What is _Taqiyya_?

_Taqiyya_  (also spelled _taqiya_ or _taqiyyah_) is lying to advance or protect Islam (_taqiyya_ literally means "prevention"). Muslims justify _taqiyya_ from the Quran, other Islamic texts, and the actions of Muhammad, including those below.

It should be emphasized that while Iying is a cause for shame in the West, _taqiyya_ isn't in Islam. To Muslims, _taqiyya_ - Iying (to infidels) to advance and protect Islam - is both a virtue and a duty (there is shame, however, in being caught - watch the video below).

So, when non-Muslims confront Muslims about facts that Muslims wish to hide (e.g., Hitler & Islam, Sharia Law, Errors in Quran, Halal, Allah Moon God, Taharrush, etc.), Muslims often Iie with a straight face, even on record and in front of other Muslims, who nod in agreement (see Muslim Brotherhood) to both approve of and to participate in _taqiyya,_ as well as kitman - the related practice of telling half-truths - as Muhammad instructed:
....




__





						TAQIYYA — What Is Taqiyya (And Kitman)? Is It Really Lying?
					

Taqiyya and Kitman - There appears to be some interest, as well as confusion among  those who do not understand the Qur'an about the doctrines of taqiyya and kitman. As you can see, ...



					billionbibles.org
				



~~~~~~~~~~~~
Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each                other... unless the purpose of lying is to "smooth over differences" or                "gain the upper-hand over an enemy."
There are several forms of lying to non-believers                    that are permitted under                certain circumstances, the best known being _taqiyya_ (the Shia name).  These                circumstances are typically those that advance the cause of Islam - in some cases                    by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their                vulnerability and defeat them.
...








						Taqiyya: Deception and Lying in Islam
					

Are Muslims permitted to lie?  What is taqiyya?




					www.thereligionofpeace.com
				



~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For balance, the Wiki take, which is somewhat defending and dis-ingenuous;




__





						Taqiya - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Silver Cat

Stann said:


> You have a short memory, perhaps you don't remember trump abandoning the Kurds in Syria and Iraq. Or making the shameful peace agreement with the Taliban in Afghanistan and abandoning all our allies there. That's the republican plan, " Me first and to hell with all the rest of you. "


Republicans are pragmatics. Protection of the Kurds or Afghanies never was a part of the deal. We didn't send them in a suicidal attack against a really strong enemy.


----------



## Stryder50

bravoactual said:


> My Family has been the United States since 1649 on my Father's Side and 1705 on my Mother's side.  I am a Proud and Loud Democracy Loving Americans.  Republicans a belly crawling, Russian Loving Putin Pussies.


So my mom's side is the Armenian, my dad's side mostly Prussian/German/Scandinavian, etc.

I'll dispute your claims against Republicans, being one myself.

Economically and politically speaking, it could be said there are two types in USA society and politics;
1) Wealth Creators ~ usually Republicans
2) Wealth Takers=Redistributors ~ usually Democrats.

I support economic incentive with proportional rewards ~ Capitalism; which most Republicans support.

I oppose taking from the hard working productive to give to the non-productive ~ Socialism/Communism; which seems to be what most Democrats support.

There lies our nation divide; Makers versus Takers.


----------



## Stann

Stryder50 said:


> I suggest you document your claims.
> There oft are two sides to an issue and you seem to be taking a side counter to mine.
> You also display as suffering from "Trump deranges my mind" syndrome.
> FWIW, an examination of history of the past century shows it is often the "professional diplomats" whom screw things up and set the stage for the next war(s).


Document, it's all history read it first read it for yourself and learn. Your trump derangement syndrome is off the wall it should apply to anybody that believes in the line con man. He's the one who's deranged. But here's one for you. www.rollingstone.com Here's What Happened in Syria in the week since trump abandoned The Kurds Oct.14, 2019. ISIS, Russia, Syria, Iran and Turkey are happy. American allies are not. trump has made our allies doubt their relationships with the United States for the first time in history. That was a very shameful and sad day for the United States.


----------



## Silver Cat

Stann said:


> Not only mad, a super threat to the rest of the world. Today he talked of using nuclear weapons. He is totally psychotic.


The Russians look at it differently. For many Westerners nuclear weapons are obsolete and dangerous relics of the past epoch. For the modern Russians nuclear weapons (and decisiveness to use them under any circumstances) are the only things that stay between them and a full scale western invasion. They (most of them) love it, the simplest way to achieve some popularity points is to suggest nuke the USA.
What is may be even more important they believe that they can (under some circumstances) win a nuclear war.


----------



## Stann

Silver Cat said:


> Republicans are pragmatics. Protection of the Kurds or Afghanies never was a part of the deal. We didn't send them in a suicidal attack against a really strong enemy.


republicans under trump have become shameful isolationists shirking America's duty to be the leader of democracy in the Free world and Russia is taking advantage of our downfall from that position.


----------



## Stann

Silver Cat said:


> The Russians look at it differently. For many Westerners nuclear weapons are obsolete and dangerous relics of the past epoch. For the modern Russians nuclear weapons (and decisiveness to use them under any circumstances) are the only things that stay between them and a full scale western invasion. They (most of them) love it, the simplest way to achieve some popularity points is to suggest nuke the USA.


The West will never invade russia, russians themselves will eventually topple putin's oligarchy goverment.


----------



## Silver Cat

Stann said:


> republicans under trump have become shameful isolationists shirking America's duty to be the leader of democracy in the Free world and Russia is taking advantage of our downfall from that position.


We are pragmatics. They want us to lead them - they should pay for it.


----------



## Silver Cat

Stann said:


> The West will never invade russia, russians themselves will eventually topple putin's oligarchy goverment.


Actually, many Russians believe that the West already invaded Russia in Chechnya, Ukraine and Belorussia. And the ideology of unlimited NATO expansion, declared by some irresponsible politicians, just ensured them that the Western barbarians want to invade their lands one more time to kill, rape and pillage (as they accustomed).


----------



## Stryder50

Stann said:


> Document, it's all history read it first read it for yourself and learn. Your trump derangement syndrome is off the wall it should apply to anybody that believes in the line con man. He's the one who's deranged. But here's one for you. www.rollingstone.com Here's What Happened in Syria in the week since trump abandoned The Kurds Oct.14, 2019. ISIS, Russia, Syria, Iran and Turkey are happy. American allies are not. trump has made our allies doubt their relationships with the United States for the first time in history. That was a very shameful and sad day for the United States.


"rollingstone" is far from what I'd call an objective or accurate source on anything other than music and entertainment industry, and even there they have their stilt and bias!

Like me, you are old enough to recall the debacle of SE Asia~Vietnam and there is a case of 30+ years ago where the USA bailed on an ally and caused other nations to doubt their relationship with USA.  If you'll also recall, that "bail" was another fine move by you Leftist~psuedo-Liberal~Dumbocrats and it's your faction~ideology~politics which have most often abandoned our allies in the post 1945 world of real-politic.

Note that the Kurds are both an ethnic and religious minority in an area where they are surrounded by Islamic enemies.  See the following map and Wiki article for reference.














						Kurds - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




The Kurds have gotten the short end of the stick ever since the end of WWOne and the European drawing of "new" nation boundaries, such as creation of the rump nation of "Iraq"; among others.

The only way to realistically support the Kurds would be the creation of a land-locked nation of their own, which would have been carved out of pieces from neighboring nations and done so at their umbrage.  Optimal time for this was during Barry/BHO's time as POTUS but he dropped/deflected that ball leaving a larger mess of that region to fall into Trump's lap.

I don't recall any serious concern or effort on the part of you loonie-Left, psuedo-liberal, Democrats to show care for the Kurds to extent the USA would back such and support it when crossing over other national boundaries to do so.

Start by trying to get a grip on your hypocrisy and non-grasp of reality.  Also, without support of Congress and enough of the American public on behalf of the Kurds, Trump would have been off on another agenda lacking popular support.  I've no doubt you'd have part of those excoriating him at the time for chasing another "lost cause" and making enemies of our allies by compelling them to give up some of their land for the Kurds to have a state of their own.

FWIW, I support the Kurds and wish USA had the balls to stand by them and support them in nationhood.  That window of opportunity was back in the post Iraq(2) war and during Obama's watch.  However, it was clear then that too many Americans didn't care for or about the Kurds to take the risks of supporting them.

Also FWIW, my oldest son fought as infantry in Iraq~Baghdad, with the 1st Cav back in 2004-2005 and had high praise for the Kurds as fighters and allies.  It is you Dumbocrats whom screwed the pooch on this issue long before Trump came into office.


----------



## TemplarKormac

TemplarKormac said:


> Putin can go jump off a cliff.
> 
> But when we are gearing our foreign policy to provoke a country, any country, we are in the wrong.
> 
> We should be ignoring Russia and focusing on China. Period.


WITH THAT SAID

Russia still needs to stop its attack on Ukraine.


----------



## Stann

Silver Cat said:


> We are pragmatics. They want us to lead them - they should pay for it.


You're not very pragmatic if you don't think about the long term. That's what's important in the long run and that's what Biden is working on. Keep supporting Russia see how far that gets you it's just playing on American and plain sick. Putin is a psychopath. There's no path forward with him. Only death and destruction.


----------



## Stryder50

Stryder50 said:


> "rollingstone" is far from what I'd call an objective or accurate source on anything other than music and entertainment industry, and even there they have their stilt and bias!
> 
> Like me, you are old enough to recall the debacle of SE Asia~Vietnam and there is a case of 30+ years ago where the USA bailed on an ally and caused other nations to doubt their relationship with USA.  If you'll also recall, that "bail" was another fine move by you Leftist~psuedo-Liberal~Dumbocrats and it's your faction~ideology~politics which have most often abandoned our allies in the post 1945 world of real-politic.
> 
> Note that the Kurds are both an ethnic and religious minority in an area where they are surrounded by Islamic enemies.  See the following map and Wiki article for reference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kurds - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Kurds have gotten the short end of the stick ever since the end of WWOne and the European drawing of "new" nation boundaries, such as creation of the rump nation of "Iraq"; among others.
> 
> The only way to realistically support the Kurds would be the creation of a land-locked nation of their own, which would have been carved out of pieces from neighboring nations and done so at their umbrage.  Optimal time for this was during Barry/BHO's time as POTUS but he dropped/deflected that ball leaving a larger mess of that region to fall into Trump's lap.
> 
> I don't recall any serious concern or effort on the part of you loonie-Left, psuedo-liberal, Democrats to show care for the Kurds to extent the USA would back such and support it when crossing over other national boundaries to do so.
> 
> Start by trying to get a grip on your hypocrisy and non-grasp of reality.  Also, without support of Congress and enough of the American public on behalf of the Kurds, Trump would have been off on another agenda lacking popular support.  I've no doubt you'd have part of those excoriating him at the time for chasing another "lost cause" and making enemies of our allies by compelling them to give up some of their land for the Kurds to have a state of their own.
> 
> FWIW, I support the Kurds and wish USA had the balls to stand by them and support them in nationhood.  That window of opportunity was back in the post Iraq(2) war and during Obama's watch.  However, it was clear then that too many Americans didn't care for or about the Kurds to take the risks of supporting them.
> 
> Also FWIW, my oldest son fought as infantry in Iraq~Baghdad, with the 1st Cav back in 2004-2005 and had high praise for the Kurds as fighters and allies.  It is you Dumbocrats whom screwed the pooch on this issue long before Trump came into office.


An independent State/Nation of Kudistan can not survive if landlocked.  It's economic survivial and independence requires access to a saltwater port and the best channel for such might be towards the West~SouthWest through Syria.

Syria already being a "nation" in chaos, it's possible the USA/UN could broker such a national border re-alignment.  It's doubtful that Iran will willing join in, and Turkey remains a bit problematic on this issue; hence the region of the Kurds might need to give up some turf to either or both.  A pathway through Iraq is too long and would divide that "nation" in halves which would further aggravate the "civil war"/conflicts there.

The most viable pathway would be towards the SouthWest through lands of Syria and Turkey towards Iskendenm.

This offers the shortest and most viable channel to seawater and related port access that would allow for an independent and self-supporting Kurdistan nation.

It's highly probable the Kurds would get support from Israel in such an effort.  Further solid backing from the USA would likely cinch the deal through the UN.  However, it's doubtful the Biden Admin. would be on board.  Hence it may have to wait until the 2024 elections and hopes of another Republican POTUS (Trump?) elected into office to seal USA support and backing.


----------



## Stryder50

Stann said:


> You're not very pragmatic if you don't think about the long term. That's what's important in the long run and that's what Biden is working on. Keep supporting Russia see how far that gets you it's just playing on American and plain sick. Putin is a psychopath. There's no path forward with him. Only death and destruction.


Biden is also a psychopath, with dementia.
Those of us whom are pragmatic realists don't expect anything positive out of him or his Admin.  At best he won't make things greatly worse.


----------



## Stryder50

For reference sake, another map to consider;




Maunsell's map of 1910, a Pre-World War I British Ethnographical Map of the Middle East, showing the Kurdish regions in yellow (both light and dark)
...








						Kurds - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Stann

Stryder50 said:


> Biden is also a psychopath, with dementia.
> Those of us whom are pragmatic realists don't expect anything positive out of him or his Admin.  At best he won't make things greatly worse.


There is not anything of psychopath in Biden, you don't know what you're talking about. Biden is able to compromise and works in a bipartisan manner. trump couldn't even begin to do that. It was his way or the highway. Biden is totally stable, every crisis that trump faced cause a meltdown for him. His own staff was considering taking him out of office for his own good and for the safety of the nation. I don't think I have to say more than that. Your comparison is a lie.


----------



## ClaireH

james bond said:


> Biden will be forced to take some kind of economic action and maybe some military action if these weak assed sanctions don't work.  Oil prices are up 62%.  EU gets 1/3 of its oil from Russia.  They're going to continue buying from Russia just like the US.  I think US drivers will be shocked tho!!!  Global inflation was already the main issue and just think if it becomes runaway due to this.


For an honest account: Biden’s first set of public sanctions, on Wednesday, were considered to be “toddler sanctions” coined by US media. Yesterday’s set of sanctions (following Putin’s actions) included many more banks and affiliates. These measures will hurt many people instead of hurting Putin directly, reportedly.

Biden should’ve stepped up to the plate for direct dialogue with Putin to iron out a workable agreement. If a world power has the capability to prevent a world war from starting, it should happen. As it appears now, Biden is awaiting further instructions from his incompetent handlers.


----------



## Stann

ClaireH said:


> For an honest account: Biden’s first set of public sanctions, on Wednesday, were considered to be “toddler sanctions” coined by US media. Yesterday’s set of sanctions (following Putin’s actions) included many more banks and affiliates. These measures will hurt many people instead of hurting Putin directly, reportedly.
> 
> Biden should’ve stepped up to the plate for direct dialogue with Putin to iron out a workable agreement. If a world power has the capability to prevent a world war from starting, it should happen. As it appears now, Biden is awaiting further instructions from his incompetent handlers.


Putin is the problem wake up already. He was making unreasonable demands on every nation in Europe. And he never changed his demands he stuck to them there was nowhere to go in diplomacy with him.


----------



## ClaireH

Stann said:


> Putin is the problem wake up already. He was making unreasonable demands on every nation in Europe. And he never changed his demands he stuck to them there was nowhere to go in diplomacy with him.


You have a selective attention problem. I have stated that both Biden and Putin are to blame for this outcome. Also NATO’s stone silence response for 2 weeks during LSM warnings for war. Various media sources around the world quoting Biden’s position, that US intelligence proved a war was about to happen, going as far to say there was no solution whatsoever, we could do nothing, we were doomed. What a crock of lies! You need wake up.

Feel free to choose to remain on your isolated island Stann. Perhaps a few more leftist blinded misfits will join you. Just think of the nightly meetings you could have, proclaiming only Putin was the actor in this mess! You could be a standard pole bearer! Lol


----------



## georgephillip

Stryder50 said:


> You have it bass-ackwards.
> Russia has been the exporter of "people's revolutions" globally since 1945, far out numbering USA response to such


*No.
Russia has not meddled in the pollical/economic affairs of foreign states to the degree the US has since 1945:*



United States involvement in regime change - Wikipedia

1945–1991: The Cold War[edit]​1940s[edit]​1945–1948: South Korea[edit]​Main articles: United States Army Military Government in Korea, First Republic of Korea, and Syngman Rhee

"The Empire of Japan surrendered to the United States in August 1945, ending the Japanese rule of Korea. 

"Under the leadership of Lyuh Woon-Hyung committees throughout Korea formed to coordinate transition to Korean independence. 

"On August 28, 1945 these committees formed the temporary national government of Korea, naming it the People's Republic of Korea (PRK) a couple of weeks later.[66][67] 

"On September 8, 1945, the United States government landed forces in Korea and thereafter established the United States Army Military Government in Korea (USAMGK) to govern Korea south of the 38th parallel north. 

*"The USAMGK outlawed the PRK government.[68][69]"*


----------



## Mindful

Yeah right!


----------



## Who_Me?

Stann said:


> Putin is the problem wake up already. He was making unreasonable demands on every nation in Europe. And he never changed his demands he stuck to them there was nowhere to go in diplomacy with him.


There is no diplomacy with a liar.


----------



## Stann

ClaireH said:


> You have a selective attention problem. I have stated that both Biden and Putin are to blame for this outcome. Also NATO’s stone silence response for 2 weeks during LSM warnings for war. Various media sources around the world quoting Biden’s position, that US intelligence proved a war was about to happen, going as far to say there was no solution whatsoever, we could do nothing, we were doomed. What a crock of lies! You need wake up.
> 
> Feel free to choose to remain on your isolated island Stann. Perhaps a few more leftist blinded misfits will join you. Just think of the nightly meetings you could have, proclaiming only Putin was the actor in this mess! You could be a standard pole bearer! Lol


Putin wanted even Nations like Poland to be pulled out of NATO. He does not have that right to dictate what other nations do. I don't know what kind of problem you have with Biden but it it's ridiculous. If you're trying to defend Putin he's a psychopath there's no defense for him anymore. I'm tired of talking to you I'm going to take a nap so I can work my 12-hour shift tonight goodbye. I work for a living you should try it.


----------



## Ame®icano

Biden gave his blessing, and Putin invaded. 

All Biden's "tough talk" about sanctions is smoke screen, this level of sanctions will take months to make a dent. Otherwise there would be sanctions on Putin, oil, and SWIFT.

If Biden really intended to help Ukraine, he would accept them into NATO immediately. Like NOW.


----------



## Who_Me?

I can't wait till Spain takes back Florida.


----------



## Mindful

Who_Me? said:


> I can't wait till Spain takes back Florida.



Then you’d be under a monarchy. After you fought a war to get rid of that sort of thing.


----------



## ClaireH

Stann said:


> Putin wanted even Nations like Poland to be pulled out of NATO. He does not have that right to dictate what other nations do. I don't know what kind of problem you have with Biden but it it's ridiculous. If you're trying to defend Putin he's a psychopath there's no defense for him anymore. I'm tired of talking to you I'm going to take a nap so I can work my 12-hour shift tonight goodbye. I work for a living you should try it.


I have no argument against the assertion that Putin is most likely psychologically unbalanced. You are ignoring half of the equation either ignorantly or intentionally. As I said, stay on your isolated island while others discuss the full picture. Here is a good illustration of believing all things stated and omitted by Lame Stream media, including CNN.


----------



## toobfreak

Stann said:


> The man is a psychopath like trump, the world is getting wise to those types very quickly.


Trump a psychopath?  No, the world already IS aware and wise to jerks like you.


----------



## Stryder50

bravoactual said:


> There are two kinds of Americans.
> 
> Americans who believe in American Freedom.  The United States Constitution and Representative Democracy - Patriots aka Democrats.
> 
> Then are Americans who cheer of Communist Dictator in Russia as he invades a Democratic Country.  These people do not believe in Freedom, they believe in Fascism and want Dictatorship in our Country - Republicans.


There is likely more than two kinds, but let's go the ignorant crap you present.

For a start, I'd suggest a re-read of the Declaration of Independence (DoI) and note that the Constitution was an effort to embody the issues and concerns of the DoI into a form of government of Laws rather than "Man" ~ persons such as Royalty~Kings/Queens/ Etc.

The DoI also sought to strike a balance between the majority decisions and the respect of minority Rights and Property.

For a start, I'd suggest a re-read of the DoI, the USA Constitution, and most importantly an investment of about 10-11 minutes in viewing this video;
The American Form Of Government​
Also consider a better study of USA history and note that it was the "Southern"/South-Eastern states whom embraced slavery as their economic foundation; sustained such, fought the "War Between the States" (a.k.a. "American Civil War" ~ ACW); and afterward voted mostly "DEMOCRAT" since it was "Republican" Lincoln whom abolished slavery and ruined their culture/lifestyle/economy.

In the decades to follow the 1861-1865 ACW the "South" and it's "Democrats" were source of voter suppression's - especially against non-whites, the KKK (Ku Klux Klan - Ku Klux Klan - Wikipedia ), the Jim Crow Laws ( Jim Crow laws - Wikipedia ) and other infringements upon Civil Rights and Liberties, Etc..

Sorry lad, but you DumboCrats are the ones whom have been most obstructed to USA Liberties and Rights during your existence and continue to do so with your lies and distortions. 

About 50+ years ago John F. Kennedy was a Democrat, and the last one I could honestly support, but if JFK were alive today and politically active, the Democrats/DNC would neither endorse nor support him. He likely would be seen by some as a RHINO, since some of the Republicans could hesitate to embrace him, yet for many of us he'd be a viable candidate since he isn't the hardcore socialist/communist one needs to be today to be a Democrat.

You and your party remain the real enemies of our nation since like your late and failed leader Barry/BHO (Obamay) you are out to fundamentally change the USA with you "Hype(Hope) and Change" agenda into another failed socialist/communist nation.

Please consider emmigration to some other failed socialist/communist nation of your choice rather than engage in treason here.


----------



## Mindful

Stann said:


> There is not anything of psychopath in Biden



True. He’s just demented.


----------



## Stryder50

Stann said:


> republicans under trump have become shameful isolationists shirking America's duty to be the leader of democracy in the Free world and Russia is taking advantage of our downfall from that position.


How much American blood and treasure, especially your own, are you willing to shed for these phony principles you advocate?


----------



## Rogue AI

Stann said:


> Putin wanted even Nations like Poland to be pulled out of NATO. He does not have that right to dictate what other nations do. I don't know what kind of problem you have with Biden but it it's ridiculous. If you're trying to defend Putin he's a psychopath there's no defense for him anymore. I'm tired of talking to you I'm going to take a nap so I can work my 12-hour shift tonight goodbye. I work for a living you should try it.


So in your world, Mexico could enter into a military alliance with China, and that would be OK?


----------



## Ame®icano

Rogue AI said:


> So in your world, Mexico could enter into a military alliance with China, and that would be OK?



Mexico can't do that due to treaty they have with us.


----------



## MisterBeale

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> You sound like someone who hates America and supports Putin.


You sound like a tool of the military-industrial-establishment that wants to control the entire planet for the benefit of the pocket book of American elites.

. . . and even if that is the situation?

Pushing Russia into the arms of China?  Certainly isn't the best way to achieve that.  Soon the reserve currency of the dollar will be destroyed, and we will either be plunged into a global thermal nuclear where we will all die, or?

We will all live a significantly lowered living standard.  Obviously it is I, that have a grasp of what is going on, and care more about America than you.


----------



## Ringo

bravoactual said:


> Ukraine is a Soverign Democratic Country.


Democratic? If you don't know what you're talking about, don't embarrass yourself by showing your ignorance. There is a real fascist regime in Ukraine, but if you think that the fact that Hitler won the democratic elections, makes Hitler's Germany a democratic country, I'd like to know what you smoke and the address of your dealer.


----------



## Ringo

Ame®icano said:


> Mexico can't do that due to treaty they have with us.


Сan't they, like the United States, withdraw from treaty when they no longer like it?


----------



## Stryder50

Stann said:


> There is not anything of psychopath in Biden, you don't know what you're talking about. Biden is able to compromise and works in a bipartisan manner. trump couldn't even begin to do that. It was his way or the highway. Biden is totally stable, every crisis that trump faced cause a meltdown for him. His own staff was considering taking him out of office for his own good and for the safety of the nation. I don't think I have to say more than that. Your comparison is a lie.


So those scores of photos showing Biden grabbing and groping girls and women show him as an upstanding citizen and man of positive character?

Like, his voters and supporters you and many others are also bottom feeding scum and dregs of society whom should be cast off to some other nation more suiting your/their slimy nature.

Comprise, no! The man hasn't a clue on how to do such.

Check his CV post college grad and he's another sleaze bag, parasitic, bottom feeding piece of social deadwood and scum, similar to those whom voted for and support him.

Trump was stuck with a staff mostly of similar career political apparachiks and commisarists whom  never earned an honest dollar or whom had to meet a payroll or provide profits to their supporters/investors.  Biden is a similar public troll and scammer whom never earned an honest dollar in his lifetime/career.

Any whom support or endorse Biden are also similar leeches and bottom feeding scum living off the productivity of others, real Americans whom take risks and make our economy grow.

You make clear the divide between those whom are REAL Americans and those whom are parasites scamming off the rest of us, like Biden has done in his whole professional career.


----------



## Mindful

ClaireH said:


> I have no argument against the assertion that Putin is most likely psychologically unbalanced. You are ignoring half of the equation either ignorantly or intentionally. As I said, stay on your isolated island while others discuss the full picture. Here is a good illustration of believing all things stated and omitted by Lame Stream media, including CNN.
> 
> View attachment 606895



Russia has always had a thing about its borders. It’s in its DNA.

And in fact, all of Europe has had border issues.


----------



## Rogue AI

Ame®icano said:


> Mexico can't do that due to treaty they have with us.


It's a hypothetical question to positions of the person I quoted. The point is, we will not allow threats on our border, yet expect other to. That type of hypocrisy diminishes us.


----------



## Who_Me?

Mindful said:


> Then you’d be under a monarchy. After you fought a war to get rid of that sort of thing.


No, I wouldn't but Trump and DeSantis would.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Mindful said:


> Russia has always had a thing about its borders. It’s in its DNA.


Then they can spill that DNA on the streets of Ukraine.


----------



## georgephillip

Stann said:


> Everything in life is a choice. As long as Russia ( Putin ) believes it is their right to invade and dominate the politics of other nations, more and more countries will join NATO.


*NATO is clearly at the root of this crisis. In 1989 when the Soviet Union died, Mikhail Gorbachev wanted the US and Europe to build a new security arrangement that would include Russia*

FEBRUARY 25, 2022
Chronicle of War Foretold​BY CHRIS HEDGES

 "Secretary of State James Baker in the Reagan administration, along with the West German Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher, assured the Soviet leader that if Germany was unified NATO would not be extended beyond the new borders. 

"The commitment not to expand NATO, also made by Great Britain and France, appeared to herald a new global order..."

*"There was a near universal understanding among diplomats and political leaders at the time that any attempt to expand NATO was foolish,* an unwarranted provocation against Russia that would obliterate the ties and bonds that happily emerged at the end of the Cold War."

*It took almost 33 years and five different US Presidents to destroy that prospect of European peace leading to an obvious conclusion:

"The war state needs enemies to sustain itself.
When an enemy can't be found an enemy is manufactured"
Hence Putin is the new Hitler not unlike Saddam and Qadhahafi.*


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

georgephillip said:


> *NATO is clearly at the root of this crisis. In 1989 when the Soviet Union died, Mikhail Gorbachev wanted the US and Europe to build a new security arrangement that would include Russia*
> 
> FEBRUARY 25, 2022
> Chronicle of War Foretold​BY CHRIS HEDGES
> 
> "Secretary of State James Baker in the Reagan administration, along with the West German Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher, assured the Soviet leader that if Germany was unified NATO would not be extended beyond the new borders.
> 
> "The commitment not to expand NATO, also made by Great Britain and France, appeared to herald a new global order..."
> 
> *"There was a near universal understanding among diplomats and political leaders at the time that any attempt to expand NATO was foolish,* an unwarranted provocation against Russia that would obliterate the ties and bonds that happily emerged at the end of the Cold War."
> 
> *It took almost 33 years and five different US Presidents to destroy that prospect of European peace leading to an obvious conclusion:
> 
> "The war state needs enemies to sustain itself.
> When an enemy can't be found an enemy is manufactured"
> Hence Putin is the new Hitler not unlike Saddam and Qadhahafi.*


Your propaganda is not compelling anyone.


----------



## Stryder50

Ame®icano said:


> Mexico can't do that due to treaty they have with us.


History shows many a treaty to be broken.


----------



## Mindful

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Then they can spill that DNA on the streets of Ukraine.



What a brilliant suggestion. How did you think that one up?


----------



## Mindful

Who_Me? said:


> No, I wouldn't but Trump and DeSantis would.



Then you’d set a precedent for France and England.


----------



## eagle1462010

Silver Cat said:


> No. At least not under any circumstances. Some Russian military analysts write that under some circumstances Russians (if they are lucky) can destroy more than 90% of American nuclear arsenal by their first counter-force strike, and then coerce the USA in peace (on more or less Russian terms - first of all without retaliation) or totally destroy the USA, and survive after their double weakened retaliation strike.


One Typhoon left.  They are toast


----------



## Who_Me?

Mindful said:


> Then you’d set a precedent for France and England.


Good point!


----------



## james bond

Stann said:


> Putin is the problem wake up already. He was making unreasonable demands on every nation in Europe. And he never changed his demands he stuck to them there was nowhere to go in diplomacy with him.


Nobody is saying that Putin wasn't the cause, but the US and Biden's response to it is weak.  There were CONTRADICTIONS by Biden of his veep Harris when she said it was "swift and certain."  Afterward, Biden even contradicted himself of what he said about sanctions earlier yesterday.  Nobody in the USA has good feelings about the _pussy_ response by the US.  Biden could just have stuck to his guns and not let himself be caught on the podium for so long.  The guy in ineffective in his handling of the crisis.

What would've been a STRONG and PROPER RESPONSE?  Threaten Putin with US and EU forces into Ukraine?  That said, one would have to have RELIABLE info that he would attack and start a war with the Ukraine.  I found a NYT story on it yesterday -- Accurate U.S. intelligence did not stop Putin, but it gave Biden big advantages..


----------



## LibertyKid

bravoactual said:


> There are two kinds of Americans.
> 
> Americans who believe in American Freedom.  The United States Constitution and Representative Democracy - Patriots aka Democrats.
> 
> Then are Americans who cheer of Communist Dictator in Russia as he invades a Democratic Country.  These people do not believe in Freedom, they believe in Fascism and want Dictatorship in our Country - Republicans.


This might be one of the dumbest posts I've read on this forum.

I really hope that you're not equating Democrats = Democracy from a historical perspective.


----------



## eagle1462010

Stann said:


> Putin wanted even Nations like Poland to be pulled out of NATO. He does not have that right to dictate what other nations do. I don't know what kind of problem you have with Biden but it it's ridiculous. If you're trying to defend Putin he's a psychopath there's no defense for him anymore. I'm tired of talking to you I'm going to take a nap so I can work my 12-hour shift tonight goodbye. I work for a living you should try it.


Poland is NATO.  That is crossing the line.  Only question is Brandon.  No clue.  Hes bought and paid for and Putin knows it.


----------



## Mindful

james bond said:


> Nobody is saying that Putin wasn't the cause, but the US and Biden's response to it is weak.  There were CONTRADICTIONS by Biden of his veep Harris when she said it was "swift and certain."  Afterward, Biden even contradicted himself of what he said about sanctions earlier yesterday.  Nobody in the USA has good feelings about the _pussy_ response by the US.  Biden could just have stuck to his guns and not let himself be caught on the podium for so long.  The guy in ineffective in his handling of the crisis.
> 
> What would've been a STRONG and PROPER RESPONSE?  Threaten Putin with US and EU forces into Ukraine?  That said, one would have to have RELIABLE info that he would attack and start a war with the Ukraine.  I found a NYT story on it yesterday -- Accurate U.S. intelligence did not stop Putin, but it gave Biden big advantages..



EU forces? Are you kidding?

This is part of the problem. Years of wokedom and fairies at the bottom of the garden. And they can’t even defend themselves. They expect the Americans to do it. Then complain when they do.


----------



## eagle1462010

Mindful said:


> EU forces? Are you kidding?
> 
> This is part of the problem. Years of wokedom and fairies at the bottom of the garden. And they can’t even defend themselves. They expect the Americans to do it. Then complain when they do.


Exactly


----------



## Mindful

eagle1462010 said:


> Exactly



At least the British have a decent army.


----------



## eagle1462010

Mindful said:


> At least the British have a decent army.


About the only one.  Poland is the only one honoring their word.


----------



## georgephillip

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Your propaganda is not compelling anyone.


*Can you wrap your mind around the reality Putin and Biden are serving the interests of their respective oligarchs with their contributions to the Ukraine conflict?

What we are seeing today in Ukraine was set in motion almost 33 years ago when the US war state decided there would be no "peace dividend" from the end of the Cold War. Instead NATO would push up to Russia's front door, and there was nothing they could do about it.

Except they have.*




FEBRUARY 25, 2022
Chronicle of War Foretold​BY CHRIS HEDGES

"The consequences of pushing NATO up to the borders with Russia — *there is now a NATO missile base in Poland 100 miles from the Russian border —* were well known to policy makers.

"Yet they did it anyway. It made no geopolitical sense.

*"But it made commercial sense*.

"War, after all, is a business, a very lucrative one.

"It is why we spent two decades in Afghanistan although there was near universal consensus after a few years of fruitless fighting that we had waded into a quagmire we could never win."


----------



## Zincwarrior

Rogue AI said:


> It's a hypothetical question to positions of the person I quoted. The point is, we will not allow threats on our border, yet expect other to. That type of hypocrisy diminishes us.


Turkey borders RUSSIA and is a NATO founder. As noted the USSR had cozy.  By taking Ukraine, they now have a border with a much more hostile country than Ukraine- Poland. Poland is a more aggressive NATO MEMBER.

Edit: I'd bet good money Poland is now looking at trying to get nukes, to be independent ly deterrent from NATO.


----------



## Ame®icano

Ringo said:


> Сan't they, like the United States, withdraw from treaty when they no longer like it?



Sure they can withdraw, but now you're talking hypothetic. Why should they?


----------



## miketx

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> I see some posters in here blaming *America* or *Joe Biden* for -Putin invading the Ukraine- What the flying fuck are y'all even talking about?


I'll tell ya. When Obama was president, Putin invaded Crimea. Biden was was vp.

When Trump was president, Putin invaded no one.

Now that Biden has been installed as president, Putin has invaded Ukraine.

So now you spew more crap.


----------



## Ame®icano

Rogue AI said:


> It's a hypothetical question to positions of the person I quoted. The point is, we will not allow threats on our border, yet expect other to. That type of hypocrisy diminishes us.



It depends who's in the office. As you can see, Democrats don't mind having open border, and are all cozy to China. 

They would welcome communists in our backyards, weather on south or north. Every single leftist applauded to chairman Turdeau dictatorship powers.


----------



## Ame®icano

Stryder50 said:


> History shows many a treaty to be broken.



True. 

Do you think Mexico would be better off if they do it?


----------



## Rogue AI

Zincwarrior said:


> Turkey borders RUSSIA and is a NATO founder. As noted the USSR had cozy.  By taking Ukraine, they now have a border with a much more hostile country than Ukraine- Poland. Poland is a more aggressive NATO MEMBER.
> 
> Edit: I'd bet good money Poland is now looking at trying to get nukes, to be independent ly deterrent from NATO.


True Turkey is a member, but they were never a primary Soviet target. All eyes were on Western Europe all through the Cold War. The only real incident that involved Turkey was US intermediate missiles placed there. They were removed as part of the Cuban Missile Crisis, though not as publicly.

I don't see NATO allowing Poland nukes, that would invite more problems than it would solve.


----------



## Ame®icano

miketx said:


> I'll tell ya. When Obama was president, Putin invaded Crimea. Biden was was vp.
> 
> When Trump was president, Putin invaded no one.
> 
> Now that Biden has been installed as president, Putin has invaded Ukraine.
> 
> So now you spew more crap.



Putin is also threatening to Sweden and Finland if they join NATO. 

I say, let them in.


----------



## skye

miketx said:


> I'll tell ya. When Obama was president, Putin invaded Crimea. Biden was was vp.
> 
> When Trump was president, Putin invaded no one.
> 
> Now that Biden has been installed as president, Putin has invaded Ukraine.
> 
> So now you spew more crap.




Xactly right!


----------



## Ame®icano

Rogue AI said:


> True Turkey is a founding member, but they were never a primary Soviet target. All eyes were on Western Europe all through the Cold War. The only real incident that involved Turkey was US intermediate missiles placed there. They were removed as part of the Cuban Missile Crisis, though not as publicly.
> 
> I don't see NATO allowing Poland nukes, that would invite more problems than it would solve.


Turkey is not founding member, they joined NATO together with Greece in 1952.


----------



## Mindful

Sky News Contributor Prue MacSween says the West is slapping Russian President Vladimir Putin with a “wet lettuce” by “throwing some sanctions” at him. 

It comes as a British security chief has urged UK spies to think about their ‘white privilege’ and have been encouraged to use their pronouns. 

“This is why we are having this problem now; you know the west is slapping Putin with what? A wet lettuce and just… wringing their hands and throwing some sanctions at him,” Ms MacSween told Sky News host Chris Smith. 

“Those images you see over in Ukraine, and you think about the vulnerability of innocent people, and you think this is what life and death is all about. 

“This is the perspective we should be focusing on and not bloody gender politics, pronouns, wokeness.”









						The West is ‘slapping’ Putin with a ‘wet lettuce’ by ‘throwing some sanctions at him’
					

Sky News Contributor Prue MacSween says the West is slapping Russian President Vladimir Putin with a “wet lettuce” by “throwing some sanctions” at him.   It comes as a British security chief has urged UK spies to think about their ‘white privilege’ and have been encouraged to use their pronouns...




					www.skynews.com.au


----------



## Ringo

Wildest fun in Kiev! After the distribution of over 20 thousand machine guns, the "Hussar holiday" began in the city. Mass cases of robberies of mini- and supermarkets, or rather what is left there, are reported. There is shooting in the streets. To the leaders of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and other cocaine-pederastic bastards in power in Ukraine- the Darwin Prize!


			https://idiod.video/q0tbb4.mp4


----------



## Zincwarrior

Rogue AI said:


> True Turkey is a founding member, but they were never a primary Soviet target. All eyes were on Western Europe all through the Cold War. The only real incident that involved Turkey was US intermediate missiles placed there. They were removed as part of the Cuban Missile Crisis, though not as publicly.
> 
> I don't see NATO allowing Poland nukes, that would invite more problems than it would solve.


It's not an "allow" situation though. Ukraine proves that promises of defense in lieu of nukes is...stupid. given Poland's history of being left out to dry, and its multiple wars with Russia, I would, like yesterday.


----------



## Rogue AI

Ame®icano said:


> True.
> 
> Do you think Mexico would be better off if they do it?


Not the current government, but if the cartels ever tire of the middle man, the next government could be. Unrestricted and virtually unlimited fentanyl might sway them.


----------



## Rogue AI

Ame®icano said:


> Turkey is not founding member, they joined NATO together with Greece in 1952.


My mistake, I'll correct it.


----------



## watchingfromafar

TemplarKormac said:


> What has the US done? We are picking the wrong fights with the wrong people...and in doing so we may have given China greater levity in a potential conflict!!


I do not see where China has anything to do with this conflict.
This round is all about the Russians' dictator who uses murder whenever/wherever Putin chooses and Putin has chosen that path numerous times.
at least that is how I see it.
-


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Mindful said:


> What a brilliant suggestion. How did you think that one up?


It's not a suggestion. It's a fact. Glad we cleared that up.


----------



## watchingfromafar

toobfreak said:


> *Trump a psychopath? No*


That old saying.,,.,., it takes one to know one fits this
I believe Trump is a pathetical liar.
This is a recognized mental illness
*Pathological lying*_, also known as mythomania and pseudologia fantastica, is a mental disorder in which the person habitually or compulsively lies. The reason for such lies often serves no obvious purpose other than to paint oneself as a hero or victim depending on the circumstance._
Pathological lying - Wikipedia
such is life





.
Just to mix in some humor---





_*yes, yes oh mighty one*_
-


----------



## Mindful

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> It's not a suggestion. It's a fact. Glad we cleared that up.



Who’s *we*?


----------



## eagle1462010

Zincwarrior said:


> Turkey borders RUSSIA and is a NATO founder. As noted the USSR had cozy.  By taking Ukraine, they now have a border with a much more hostile country than Ukraine- Poland. Poland is a more aggressive NATO MEMBER.
> 
> Edit: I'd bet good money Poland is now looking at trying to get nukes, to be independent ly deterrent from NATO.


LOL  Explain the AGGRESSIVE NATO MEMBER POLAND.....LMAO


----------



## eagle1462010

watchingfromafar said:


> That old saying.,,.,., it takes one to know one fits this
> I believe Trump is a pathetical liar.
> This is a recognized mental illness
> *Pathological lying*_, also known as mythomania and pseudologia fantastica, is a mental disorder in which the person habitually or compulsively lies. The reason for such lies often serves no obvious purpose other than to paint oneself as a hero or victim depending on the circumstance._
> Pathological lying - Wikipedia
> such is life
> 
> View attachment 606970
> .
> Just to mix in some humor---
> 
> View attachment 606971
> 
> _*yes, yes oh mighty one*_
> -


BLAMEFEST 2022.  It's all TRUMP's Fault that Brandon sucks...........Obama did too but we have selective memory.  

God you folks are Pathetic.


----------



## eagle1462010

Ringo said:


> Wildest fun in Kiev! After the distribution of over 20 thousand machine guns, the "Hussar holiday" began in the city. Mass cases of robberies of mini- and supermarkets, or rather what is left there, are reported. There is shooting in the streets. To the leaders of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and other cocaine-pederastic bastards in power in Ukraine- the Darwin Prize!
> 
> 
> https://idiod.video/q0tbb4.mp4


That video doesn't show that Ivan.


----------



## watchingfromafar

eagle1462010 said:


> *God you folks are Pathetic.*


Thank God you don't have a selective memory !!!!!
-


----------



## Stann

Ame®icano said:


> Biden gave his blessing, and Putin invaded.
> 
> All Biden's "tough talk" about sanctions is smoke screen, this level of sanctions will take months to make a dent. Otherwise there would be sanctions on Putin, oil, and SWIFT.
> 
> If Biden really intended to help Ukraine, he would accept them into NATO immediately. Like NOW.


That would have been nice if they did it as soon as Putin started this garbage. Unfortunately NATO doesn't move that quickly, Ukraine didn't meet all the requirements, they were working on it but they weren't there yet.


----------



## eagle1462010

watchingfromafar said:


> Thank God you don't have a selective memory !!!!!
> -


My memory is just fine.  Under Obama they attacked..........took Crimea.........Got kicked out of Yemen.  Left with our tails between our legs in Libya with the enemy swimming in our Embassy swimming pool.

Drew crayon lines in the sand in Syria.     Oh and Biden was there being a dumb fuck like normal.

Putin owns Brandon which is why all the leftist here are desperate to blame Trump.......Because they having NOTHING ELSE.


----------



## eagle1462010

Stann said:


> That would have been nice if they did it as soon as Putin started this garbage. Unfortunately NATO doesn't move that quickly, Ukraine didn't meet all the requirements, they were working on it but they weren't there yet.


Who are THEY...........The European countries that never honored their words..........and never built up armies for times like these.........Always waiting for the U.S. to protect them.  While fucking us in Trade........as we pay the Lion's share of NATO and the UN..............

Where are they today?  Where the hell are their troops?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

eagle1462010 said:


> LOL  Explain the AGGRESSIVE NATO MEMBER POLAND.....LMAO


They invite NATO to flex on their eastern border quite often.


----------



## Zincwarrior

eagle1462010 said:


> LOL  Explain the AGGRESSIVE NATO MEMBER POLAND.....LMAO
> 
> Aggressive in that, unlike Germany, they will fight.


----------



## eagle1462010

Backed into a corner with no choice of course they will.  They understand the consequences.  

That is not AGRESSION........The is MEN standing up for their country and fighting to the death to it.

Poland IS IN NATO........We are honor bound to help them.  Catch 22 we have no idea what Veggie Joe will do if that happens.


----------



## PinktheFloyd88

The Island heroes who lost their lives...they are heroes.

Russian invaders came, and they told them

'Attention Russian warship: go fuck tourself'

THAT is courage. Not these Tweets from Americans talking about how strong Putin is. Those men are heroes


RIP


----------



## Stryder50

watchingfromafar said:


> That old saying.,,.,., it takes one to know one fits this
> I believe Trump is a pathetical liar.
> This is a recognized mental illness
> *Pathological lying*_, also known as mythomania and pseudologia fantastica, is a mental disorder in which the person habitually or compulsively lies. The reason for such lies often serves no obvious purpose other than to paint oneself as a hero or victim depending on the circumstance._
> Pathological lying - Wikipedia
> such is life
> 
> View attachment 606970
> .
> Just to mix in some humor---
> 
> View attachment 606971
> 
> _*yes, yes oh mighty one*_
> -


Sounds applicable to Obamy and his plans of "hype and change" for USA.


----------



## Stryder50

Ame®icano said:


> True.
> 
> Do you think Mexico would be better off if they do it?


First, which 'treaty' with Mexico are you referring to?
Second which clauses/provisions within said treaty are you referring to?

Not all "treaties" are equal.
Often one or more parties to a treaty do such under duress.

Trying being a bit more specific and not a blatant product of the defective USA K-12 and one or more college degrees so-called "education system".

When you have something a bit more precise and specific I might chose to spend some time and energy responding further to.


----------



## Who_Me?

Mindful said:


> EU forces? Are you kidding?
> 
> This is part of the problem. Years of wokedom and fairies at the bottom of the garden. And they can’t even defend themselves. They expect the Americans to do it. Then complain when they do.


The last war that the French did not surrender in was the French Revolution because they were fighting the French.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> They invite NATO to flex on their eastern border quite often.



And?


----------



## Ame®icano

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> The Island heroes who lost their lives...they are heroes.
> 
> Russian invaders came, and they told them
> 
> 'Attention Russian warship: go fuck tourself'
> 
> THAT is courage. Not these Tweets from Americans talking about how strong Putin is. Those men are heroes
> 
> 
> RIP



The problem is not that Putin is strong.

The problem is that Cornpop is weak.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> And?


I think that's all it meant. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## ClaireH

Ame®icano said:


> The problem is not that Putin is strong.
> 
> The problem is that Cornpop is weak.


The problem is that cornpop could’ve done something to avoid this war, but for whatever reasons (and there’s more than one reason) he did not pursue that path. Trump would have taken the path of direct negotiations to avoid the conflict and deaths.  Biden was advised to sanction with baby steps, followed by more significant sanctions post-war, and to forget that leaders can figure out a workable compromise. Let’s leave it to the French was Biden’s solution.


----------



## Ame®icano

Stryder50 said:


> First, which 'treaty' with Mexico are you referring to?
> Second which clauses/provisions within said treaty are you referring to?
> 
> Not all "treaties" are equal.
> Often one or more parties to a treaty do such under duress.
> 
> Trying being a bit more specific and not a blatant product of the defective USA K-12 and one or more college degrees so-called "education system".
> 
> When you have something a bit more precise and specific I might chose to spend some time and energy responding further to.



OK Tilapia, how specific you were when you said "*History shows many a treaty to be broken*", or whatever fuck you meant with that.

As usual, leftist fucks never answer the question, but they demand all their questions to be answered. Also, there is this constant "need" to accuse others of things they're doing. You see, If you stopped at K12, it doesn't mean everyone is at the same level than you. No Tilapia, they're not.

Second, there was Rio Treaty, which Mexico left some time ago, but shortly after they signed something called Perimeter Defense or Regional Defense in North America, not sure of exact name, but since you have K12, I'm sure you can manage to find it on your own.


----------



## PinktheFloyd88

There is no left or right in here.....Putin is a madman and must be stopped. By all of us


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> I think that's all it meant. 🤷‍♂️



They can do drills in their own country whenever they want. 

Also, Russia is often invited to observe NATO drills. 

So what exactly is the problem you see?


----------



## james bond

Mindful said:


> EU forces? Are you kidding?
> 
> This is part of the problem. Years of wokedom and fairies at the bottom of the garden. And they can’t even defend themselves. They expect the Americans to do it. Then complain when they do.


Whether or not the EU will go to war is up to their government and politics.  That said, they are able to compete with the Russian military -- European Union vs Russia: Military Facts and Stats.  Here is the US -- USA vs Russia | Comparison military strength.  Combined, they would be formidable in a ground and air battle in the Ukraine.

Yet, we just saw that Biden is a pussy and doesn't have confidence in his own policy decision making.  He already screwed up by pulling out of Afghanistan.  He could have had a military build-up there to put pressure on Russia.  They had troops there already.


----------



## TemplarKormac

watchingfromafar said:


> I do not see where China has anything to do with this conflict.
> This round is all about the Russians' dictator who uses murder whenever/wherever Putin chooses and Putin has chosen that path numerous times.
> at least that is how I see it.
> -


China is an even greater threat than Russia, and our actions in Ukraine or because of Ukraine may dictate what it does with Taiwan. 

Stupid foreign policy decisions from presidential administrations on both sides over the past 30 years made this mess.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> They can do drills in their own country whenever they want.
> 
> Also, Russia is often invited to observe NATO drills.
> 
> So what exactly is the problem you see?


I don't see any problem with it. I think the point is that Russia does. I think they perceive(d) a difference between invading Ukraine and Poland because of it.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> There is no left or right in here.....Putin is a madman and must be stopped. By all of us


Look at this 1970s junk Putin is rolling into Eastern Ukraine:


----------



## james bond

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Look at this 1970s junk Putin is rolling into Eastern Ukraine:


It looks dirty here, but the tank is supposed to be between 2015 - 2020 compared to the tanks of Ukraine which are from the 1980s and 1990s.  The US tanks are supposed to be far superior than Russia's armored fighting vehicles.


----------



## PinktheFloyd88

CHINA has now imposed sanctions on Russia. SWITZERLAND even. They didn't hate Hitler and were neutral in WW2 but not Putin.

WOW


----------



## Who_Me?

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Look at this 1970s junk Putin is rolling into Eastern Ukraine:


They must have run out of Bondo.


----------



## BothWings

toobfreak said:


> Biden wants war.  He is the cause of it all.  Putting a weak man like him in was bad enough, they didn't dare try this with Trump in office.  Then the world saw that Biden was a hapless clown the way he literally tripped over his own feet from beginning to end in Afghanistan, from grossly overestimating the Afghan army to the leaving, that showed Putin that NOW was the time to move, when the West was led by a fool like Biden whose worst threats are all on paper rather than the actual battlefield.
> 
> Democrats should have KNOWN this would happen with a suffering fool like Joe Bedpan in office but all they thought about was themselves instead of the country or the world.
> 
> How many more *hundreds of billions* will the Left's obsession with Trump Derangement System cost us this time?


Actually Obama caused it by covertly and illegally putting western business-friendly people in office in Ukraine several years ago via the CIA. Now his blithering moron of a protege is left with the result. Russia is simply putting things back the way they were and then the bear will go back to sleep. No WW3 unless Biden does something stupid. (Duck and cover).


----------



## BothWings

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> CHINA has now imposed sanctions on Russia. SWITZERLAND even. They didn't hate Hitler and were neutral in WW2 but not Putin.
> 
> WOW


Because China is supporting Biden, owner of the hand that feeds it.


----------



## NotfooledbyW

toobfreak said:


> Putting a weak man like him in was bad enough, they didn't dare try this with Trump in office.



*NFBW {[ wrote*: Putin strategically held off invading Ukraine UNTIL after the 2020 election so as not to harm the only Pro/Putin US President’s chance at winning another four year term of public displays of willingness to wipe Putin’s ass for him.  22FEB26-POST#0639


----------



## NotfooledbyW

ClaireH said:


> Trump would have taken the path of direct negotiations to avoid the conflict and deaths.



*NFBW {[ wrote: *What stopped DJT,  as an American citizen, as a former President, and defender of democratic self rule in Europe, from offering his strong personal relationship with a ruthless dictator that he publicly admired while candidate and as President, to lead a special entourage of US right wing rank and file experts to inflict the only potentially successful negotiations strategy on Putin that stops  an invasion and at the same time
but leave Ukraine contact.?

Do you know why DJT didn't offer that?

I do.,  22FEB26-POST#0640


----------



## Ringo

"Our military destroyed the Nazi-built dam that blocked the North Crimean Canal. The work on the return of the Dnieper water to the Crimea continues," wrote the head of the Republic of Crimea Sergey Aksenov in official social networks
. In May 2014, Ukraine unilaterally blocked the water coming to Crimea from the Kherson region through the North Crimean Canal, which provided up to 90% of the peninsula's needs. This is quite part of the definition of genocide, but Western politicians did not think so.
 "Crimea will be with water and the residents of the region are not in danger of water supply" Sergey Aksenov


----------



## Death Angel

Mindful said:


> A fatal weakness. Ukraine should be in NATO.


That is what provoked Russia


----------



## beagle9

watchingfromafar said:


> That old saying.,,.,., it takes one to know one fits this
> I believe Trump is a pathetical liar.
> This is a recognized mental illness
> *Pathological lying*_, also known as mythomania and pseudologia fantastica, is a mental disorder in which the person habitually or compulsively lies. The reason for such lies often serves no obvious purpose other than to paint oneself as a hero or victim depending on the circumstance._
> Pathological lying - Wikipedia
> such is life
> 
> View attachment 606970
> .
> Just to mix in some humor---
> 
> View attachment 606971
> 
> _*yes, yes oh mighty one*_
> -


Even after all that has been factually proven false in the case of Trump being a Putin puppet, you still show strong symptoms and signs that mimick the very definition of what a pathological denying of reality  liar is. Get help fast.

If anything Putin admired Trump the man and his tough character, otherwise someone he could relate to when it comes to strength in resolve. In fact Putin might be stronger than Trump when it comes to strength, but he admired us voting in someone that showed strength instead of weakness when it came to a lot of issues.

After Putin saw how Trump was constantly attacked from within, that's when he saw huge division and weakness in our nation, and at that point he decided to himself that no nation like the divided U.S. could remain a dominant influence over the world, and especially not over the Russians, so it was time for Russia to move forward by pushing back from the sphere of influence we have had in the world since world war two. China undoubtedly is looking at it in the same way. We are in big trouble in the world, but hey the leftist got it's crying whining ace agenda rolling in spite of it all, so enjoy the spoils of your destruction leftist, because you deceived your country into believing all the lies, and it seems that it's now pay day as the world player's have been awakened.


----------



## beagle9

Ame®icano said:


> The problem is not that Putin is strong.
> 
> The problem is that Cornpop is weak.


And the weakness is in character... A far greater weakness than anything from without is bad character within.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

BothWings said:


> Actually Obama caused it by covertly and illegally putting western business-friendly people in office in Ukraine several years ago via the CIA.


Damn this is stupid and devoid of any ethics.

Like saying you caused your own home to get robbed, because you bought some nice things.

So stupid.


----------



## BothWings

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Damn this is stupid and devoid of any ethics.
> 
> Like saying you caused your own home to get robbed, because you bought some nice things.
> 
> So stupid.


Sorry but that analogy is completely off. There was a democratically elected government there before the Obama Administration meddled with it...ILLEGALLY. And it was done for the expansion of globalist's corporate regime and  profits and nothing else. The same  reason they keep sucking up to China to be their manufacturing base. Years of that has put China in a position of incredible power. And they still don't give a s*** as long as they make profits from it.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

BothWings said:


> Sorry but that analogy is completely off. There was a democratically elected government there before the Obama Administration meddled with it...ILLEGALLY. And it was done for the expansion of globalist's corporate regime and  profits and nothing else. The same  reason they keep sucking up to China to be their manufacturing base. Years of that has put China in a position of incredible power. And they still don't give a s*** as long as they make profits from it.


Nah, it's spot on. And you tryingto blame any if this on anyone except Putin is transparent, predictable propaganda. Just turn off half your brain cells, and anyone can shit out this garbage.


----------



## Ame®icano

Everyone on earth knows this retard isn’t considering anything.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> Everyone on earth knows this retard isn’t considering anything.


You're confusing yourself again. Biden actually understands governance and policy. It was the orange turd who couldn't follow two sentences in a row.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> You're confusing yourself again. Biden actually understands governance and policy. It was the orange turd who couldn't follow two sentences in a row.







Your browser is not able to display this video.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> View attachment 607367


18 seconds. Just about right for a simpleton.


----------



## ClaireH

NotfooledbyW said:


> *NFBW {[ wrote: *What stopped DJT,  as an American citizen, as a former President, and defender of democratic self rule in Europe, from offering his strong personal relationship with a ruthless dictator that he publicly admired while candidate and as President, to lead a special entourage of US right wing rank and file experts to inflict the only potentially successful negotiations strategy on Putin that stops  an invasion and at the same time
> but leave Ukraine contact.?
> 
> Do you know why DJT didn't offer that?
> 
> I do.,  22FEB26-POST#0640


Post 640 would be this one? I do not see the reason stated here. Would you care to share your insight? Can you imagine if Trump tried what you suggested? The left would have crucified him in the press for trying to “act like the sitting president” and “making it about him”? Not that I think that would have deterred Trump any had he thought it would have deterred the war. He had to deal with that for 5 years, 6 years now.

Responsibility lies on the head of state regarding attempts to prevent a war when possible, via dialogue. I remain convinced that there were no true efforts on Biden’s part to prevent the war. I stand by that opinion.

Added thought: I am not pro-Russian government by any means. I have no ill will toward the Russian people however. Their ruthless dictator has arrested a few thousand Russian citizens for anti-war protests, deemed illegal under his rule. Independent  journalists have been warned in Russia to not use words such as “aggression”, “war” etc. in their reports. The Ukrainian civilian deaths, just under 200 currently, reportedly, tragic. The people fighting in Ukraine under their government’s orders to stand strong. Refugees as expected growing in number.

Are former countries under USSR stepping up to come to their defense? They certainly know about living under a ruthless dictator.


----------



## NotfooledbyW

NotfooledbyW said:


> *NFBW {[ wrote*: Putin strategically held off invading Ukraine UNTIL after the 2020 election so as not to harm the only Pro/Putin US President’s chance at winning another four year term of public displays of willingness to wipe Putin’s ass for him. 22FEB26-POST#0639





NotfooledbyW said:


> *NFBW {[ wrote: *What stopped DJT, as an American citizen, as a former President, and defender of democratic self rule in Europe, from offering his strong personal relationship with a ruthless dictator that he publicly admired while candidate and as President, to lead a special entourage of US right wing rank and file experts to inflict the only potentially successful negotiations strategy on Putin that stops an invasion and at the same time
> but leave Ukraine contact.?





beagle9 said:


> If anything Putin admired Trump the man and his tough character, otherwise someone he could relate to when it comes to strength in resolve. In fact Putin might be stronger than Trump when it comes to strength, but he admired us voting in someone that showed strength instead of weakness when it came to a lot of issues



For you too Death Angel 

*NFBW {[ wrote*: Putin saw no strength in DJT - think Trump scholar THINK.

Putin saw usefulness in Trump. A made to order - friendly,  rightwing,  pro-Russian Pro-white,  hedonistic political operative  with made for tv propaganda skills bowing to him.  Most important though, Putin saw hedonistic materialistic Trump’s early support from ultra-religious white evangelical Christians, as a high value asset to his cyber campaign to erode and stress America’s racially unstable fault lines to weaken America civil order. He had a Republican campaigning against the  BUSH CHENEY dynasty because they lied America into war. 

Your spin on the PutinTrump bromance is absurd. If anything Trump is Putin’s bitch. a useful idiot in the White who was too fucking weak inept and sloppy to not win or steal a second term. Putin is done with the Trump clan. They are of no use to Putin anymore.  22FEB26-POST#


----------



## badger2

Yes


BothWings said:


> Sorry but that analogy is completely off. There was a democratically elected government there before the Obama Administration meddled with it...ILLEGALLY. And it was done for the expansion of globalist's corporate regime and  profits and nothing else. The same  reason they keep sucking up to China to be their manufacturing base. Years of that has put China in a position of incredible power. And they still don't give a s*** as long as they make profits from it


Yes, correct: NATO expansion is by default capitalist expansion, the mechanism of world capitalism itself having an intimate relationship to the schizophrenic process, that constantly sets, then propels, its own limits. American automatons who are prisoners to CIA-inspired or Democrat-Nazi-inspired media propaganda are mostly unaware that Russian Foreign Relations expert Maria Zakharova is calling out the West's ahistorical mental pathologies connected to the Ukrainian conflict as they are occurring. One can understand how some Russians might view this Western contradiction: flapping its indignant lips for 2022 while forgetting 14,000 Ukrainians already killed, as Zakharoa aptly points out.

It is intelligent and politically correct to call Putin's an operation rather than an invasion. The Kremlin also holds all the cards.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> 18 seconds. Just about right for a simpleton.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

badger2 said:


> Yes
> 
> Yes, correct: NATO expansion is by default capitalist expansion, the mechanism of world capitalism itself having an intimate relationship to the schizophrenic process, that constantly sets, then propels, its own limits. American automatons who are prisoners to CIA-inspired or Democrat-Nazi-inspired media propaganda are mostly unaware that Russian Foreign Relations expert Maria Zakharova is calling out the West's ahistorical mental pathologies connected to the Ukrainian conflict as they are occurring. One can understand how some Russians might view this Western contradiction: flapping its indignant lips for 2022 while forgetting 14,000 Ukrainians already killed, as Zakharoa aptly points out.
> 
> It is intelligent and politically correct to call Putin's an operation rather than an invasion. The Kremlin also holds all the cards.


NATO expansion relies on self determination and respect of sovereignty. NATO doesn't have to invade coutries and slaughter civilians to bring countries into it.


----------



## badger2

ClaireH said:


> Post 640 would be this one? I do not see the reason stated here. Would you care to share your insight? Can you imagine if Trump tried that what the left would have done to crucify him in the press for trying to “act like the sitting president? Not that I think that would have deterred Trump any, he had to deal with that for five years, 6 years now.
> 
> Responsibility lies on the head of state regarding attempts to prevent a war when possible, via dialogue. I remain convinced that there were no true efforts on Biden’s part to prevent the war. I stand by that opinion.


And rightly you should. The POSPOTUS is a CIA puppet who knows very well what his handlers have been doing in Ukraine for the last two decades, at least.


----------



## badger2

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> NATO expansion relies on self determination and respect of sovereignty. NATO doesn't have to invade coutries and slaughter civilians to bring countries into it.


No Dipshit, it relies on coercion, capitalist coercion. We can understand how a low-IQ might conveniently leave that out of the argument.


----------



## badger2

What few intelligent USMBers left might want to do is to follow Zakharova's official Russian rebuttal to the delirium in the media. Zakharova helps to make clearer the the janus-faced pathology of the globalist West.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> NATO expansion relies on self determination and respect of sovereignty. NATO doesn't have to invade coutries and slaughter civilians to bring countries into it.





badger2 said:


> No Dipshit, it relies on coercion, capitalist coercion. We can understand how a low-IQ might conveniently leave that out of the argument.



I agree with FFI on this one.

NATO doesn't coerce anyone into entering membership. Once you join, you have certain obligations, such as how much you have to provide for the defense, following NATO standards, and in exchange you enjoy certain benefits.

Ukraine has a right to associate with whoever they want. If they want to join NATO, to enjoy NATO's protection, I don't see any problem with that.


----------



## NotfooledbyW

badger2 said:


> The Kremlin also holds all the cards.


*NFBW wrote:* Do they?


> , "With typical strongman hubris, Putin has clearly underestimated the willingness of Ukrainians to fight against him. The war will create numerous Russian casualties, which even reported mobile crematoria, which could hide evidence of Russian dead, won't be able to mask."











						Putin's 'bad decisions' and increasing 'isolation' are speeding up his downfall: historian
					

In a column for MSNBC, a historian and expert on autocratic regimes pointed out that Vladimir Putin appears to be headed down a well-worn path that other dictators have followed that led to their own destruction.According to Ruth Ben-Ghiat, a professor at New York University, Putin's drive into...




					www.rawstory.com
				




I have family and contacts in Russia high in a major hospital and on a police force in a major city. They are shocked and stunned at what Putin is doing in their name.


----------



## beagle9

NotfooledbyW said:


> For you too Death Angel
> 
> *NFBW {[ wrote*: Putin saw no strength in DJT - think Trump scholar THINK.
> 
> Putin saw usefulness in Trump. A made to order - friendly,  rightwing,  pro-Russian Pro-white,  hedonistic political operative  with made for tv propaganda skills bowing to him.  Most important though, Putin saw hedonistic materialistic Trump’s early support from ultra-religious white evangelical Christians, as a high value asset to his cyber campaign to erode and stress America’s racially unstable fault lines to weaken America civil order. He had a Republican campaigning against the  BUSH CHENEY dynasty because they lied America into war.
> 
> Your spin on the PutinTrump bromance is absurd. If anything Trump is Putin’s bitch. a useful idiot in the White who was too fucking weak inept and sloppy to not win or steal a second term. Putin is done with the Trump clan. They are of no use to Putin anymore.  22FEB26-POST#


You being a racist killed every bit of your perceived (only by you) intellect on such matter's. Your propaganda even though you already know that Durham has already shown that Hillary's campaign created the whole Trump/Russia narrative, uhhhhh is so full of holes yet you keep pouring the Kool aid into your sheeples barrels in hopes to keep them as slaves... Drink up liberal leftist ignants, what little bit your masters are able to save for you as it spills onto the floor while you lick it up. Drink up.


----------



## beagle9

Ame®icano said:


> I agree with FFI on this one.
> 
> NATO doesn't coerce anyone into entering membership. Once you join, you have certain obligations, such as how much you have to provide for the defense, following NATO standards, and in exchange you enjoy certain benefits.
> 
> Ukraine has a right to associate with whoever they want. If they want to join NATO, to enjoy NATO's protection, I don't see any problem with that.


Uhhhh to late for that type of action now, so get ready for Ukraine to become part of Russia again, and maybe rightly so. And why did Trump say that NATO countries weren't paying or doing what they were supposed to be doing ?? Seems that he had that straightened out, but where is that now under Biden (reversed like everything else ?????????)


----------



## Ringo

NotfooledbyW said:


> I have family and contacts in Russia high in a major hospital and on a police force in a major city. They are shocked and stunned at what Putin is doing in their name.


And you didn't have anyone in the American hospital or the police when the United States bombed Belgrade for two months? Or the cities of Iraq and Syria? How did they react to this, were they also shocked? No? O.K. then.


----------



## beagle9

NotfooledbyW said:


> *NFBW wrote:* Do they?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin's 'bad decisions' and increasing 'isolation' are speeding up his downfall: historian
> 
> 
> In a column for MSNBC, a historian and expert on autocratic regimes pointed out that Vladimir Putin appears to be headed down a well-worn path that other dictators have followed that led to their own destruction.According to Ruth Ben-Ghiat, a professor at New York University, Putin's drive into...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rawstory.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have family and contacts in Russia high in a major hospital and on a police force in a major city. They are shocked and stunned at what Putin is doing in their name.


Put up some video showing that... Anyone can talk their bull crap, but can they prove it ?? What political stripe are your contacts or family members, and what percentages do they hold in society at large ??


----------



## NotfooledbyW

beagle9 said:


> After Putin saw how Trump was constantly attacked from within, that's when he saw huge division and weakness in our nation, and at that point he decided to himself that no nation like the divided U.S. could remain a dominant influence over the world, and especially not over the Russians, so it was time for Russia to move forward by pushing back from the sphere of influence we have had in the world since world war two.



Your opinion is self-refuted by the reality on the ground. Biden has theAmerican public and political and business establishments united not seen since 09/11/01 against a war criminal and a threat to Europe who will be stopped.

That is except for Trump goons rooting for Putin to defeat Biden’s presidency since they can’t.

What’s the MAGA dear leader focused on today …  tearing apart the GOP ., and that is a good thing.


'Every RINO must go!': Trump melts down on Georgia lawmakers and their 'puppet master' Mitch McConnell​
Tom Boggioni
February 26, 2022


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Isn't it so smart and savvy when people kill their spouses for the insurance money?

I mean, just wonderful. Very savvy. A full bank account and one fewer mouth to feed.

They really played the insurance industry like a fiddle. This is what happens when the insurance industry shows weakness.


----------



## Ringo

I know the academic secretary of one of the universities, who lives in Donetsk - a professor, a gray-haired respected person. He does not live in the center of Donetsk and has not left after war started in 2014. When they began to fire regularly, he just moved things to the basement and began to sleep there. And leaving for work in the morning. And did so for several years.
Today I'm reading a repost from an Israeli repatriate of a Kiev friend, who spent one day in the subway with her family: "I hate them..",and all that. And in the comments - ah-ah, inhumane, how can it be so.
To have the right to complain about the bombing of Dresden, you had to be indignant when Coventry, Guernica and Stalingrad were bombed


----------



## beagle9

NotfooledbyW said:


> Your opinion is self-refuted by the reality on the ground. Biden has them American public and political and business establishments united not seen since 09/11/01 against a war criminal and a threat to Europe who will be stopped.
> 
> That is except for Trump goons rooting for Putin to defeat Biden’s presidency since they can’t.
> 
> What’s the MAGA dear leader focused on today …  tearing apart the GOP ., and that is a good thing.


No one's rooting for Putin, but the fact that America has trumped all other nation's in the world arena on inward acceptance of deploralism is something to think about. It weakens us, and causes us to lose any influence we have on the world stage when it comes to societal standards that provides a healthy outcome for a healthy family be it mind, body, and soul.


----------



## airplanemechanic

I hope 100000 dead Russians come out of this. The more the better. Kiev will become an urban slaughterhouse. Lots of dead Ruskies.

You want to talk about Iraq being Bush's quagmire? This will be Putins.


----------



## beagle9

airplanemechanic said:


> I hope 100000 dead Russians come out of this. The more the better. Kiev will become an urban slaughterhouse. Lots of dead Ruskies.
> 
> You want to talk about Iraq being Bush's quagmire? This will be Putins.


No one wants war, but for the globalist this was an eye opener for sure, because the global one world order cabal figured that they had all their card's in order, but then comes Putin to push back against what undoubtedly he saw as a problem growing for his Nation. Next it'll be China who will align with Putin to get done what it wants to accomplish without NATO resistance. The tangled webs that man weaves, and as righteous justice predicts always says that man shall be caught up in his own webs of deceit.


----------



## NotfooledbyW

Ringo said:


> And you didn't have anyone in the American hospital or the police when the United States bombed Belgrade for two months? Or the cities of Iraq and Syria? How did they react to this, were they also shocked? No? O.K. then.


That is incoherent.


airplanemechanic said:


> I hope 100000 dead Russians come out of this. The more the better. Kiev will become an urban slaughterhouse. Lots of dead Ruskies.


It won’t take that many. Russian officers who have strong Russian mothers will remove the madman lest they become war criminals too. 



beagle9 said:


> No one wants war, but for the globalist this was an eye opener for sure, because the global one world order cabal figured that they had all their card's in order, but then comes Putin to push back against what undoubtedly he saw as a problem growing for his Nation.


Putin Is a terrorist and war criminal already. Soon to be genocidal head of state.,  there is no problem growing for his nation - You are sick.


----------



## NotfooledbyW

beagle9 said:


> You being a racist killed every bit of your perceived (only by you) intellect on such matter's.



I Support BLM.,



beagle9 said:


> so get ready for Ukraine to become part of Russia again, and maybe rightly so.



Your favorite fascists Putin is killing Ukrainian civilians where they sleep and you give us a ‘maybe’ righttly so.,  not convinced yourself is a bad moral place to be right now?


----------



## eagle1462010

NotfooledbyW said:


> I Support BLM.,
> 
> 
> 
> Your favorite fascists Putin is killing Ukrainian civilians where they sleep and you give us a ‘maybe’ righttly so.,  not convinced yourself is a bad moral place to be right now?


Burn Loot and Murder can kiss my ass.  In regards to Putin............Maybe you dumbfucks shouldn't have stolen the dang election and put a Imbecile in there...........Obama 2.0 the LEGACY OF FAILURE.


----------



## NotfooledbyW

eagle1462010 said:


> Burn Loot and Murder can kiss my ass. In regards to Putin............Maybe you dumbfucks shouldn't have stolen the dang election and put a Imbecile in there...........Obama 2.0 the LEGACY OF FAILURE.


ITS  BLACK LIVES MATTER, racist.

Maybe you shouldn’t have ran a loser PUTIN Puppet.


----------



## Sunsettommy

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Look at this 1970s junk Putin is rolling into Eastern Ukraine:



That "junk" is still effective with Ukraine who doesn't have anything better than what Russia has.

*Comparison of Ukraine and Russia Military Strengths (2022)*

Russia 12,420 Tanks #1 ranking T72, T80, T14 is awesome but they have just 20 of them.

Ukraine 2,596 Tanks  #13 Ranking T72 is their best tank

The Russians have more T64 and T72 than Ukraine does which is their two main tank groups thus matched and more.

Russia has the significant advantage.


----------



## eagle1462010

NotfooledbyW said:


> ITS  BLACK LIVES MATTER, racist.
> 
> Maybe you shouldn’t have ran a loser PUTIN Puppet.


Burn Loot and Murder............all over the country ..........No respect for your BS whatsoever.

Putin.......I served during the cold war and even played tag in the Navy with the Russians...

And now I look at this Imbecile N Chief with disgust...........A WORTHLESS FAILURE........That is on you not me.....

Obama 2.0 ......Foreign policy disasters ......same as 1.0.........With the enemy swimming in the embassy pool in Libya...

Oh I forgot........Afghanistan........leaving Americans behind at the mercy of the Taliban..........And you defend that INSANITY.


----------



## NotfooledbyW

eagle1462010 said:


> Burn Loot and Murder............all over the country ..........No respect for your BS whatsoever.


You are a racist. Your respect means nothing.


----------



## Ame®icano

beagle9 said:


> Uhhhh to late for that type of action now, so get ready for Ukraine to become part of Russia again, and maybe rightly so. And why did Trump say that NATO countries weren't paying or doing what they were supposed to be doing ?? Seems that he had that straightened out, but where is that now under Biden (reversed like everything else ?????????)



Biden reversing Trump's policies against Russia shows that Biden is much closer to Putin then left portray him to be. He's continuing Obama's policies that let Russia do whatever they want in Ukraine. If he's really serious, and he's not, about punishing Russia, he wouldn't remove sanctions, he wouldn't approve Nordstream 2, and he would impose all available sanctions. Heck, he would take them to NATO immediately, without considering what Putin says. But he's not doing so, and we all pretty much know why. Beside, Biden is still angry on Ukraine because they didn't back him up on Burisma and Hunter issue, and against Trump. Putin's threats are working so well that he expanded his threats about joining NATO to Sweden and Finland, two countries that were always pro west oriented, and were never military threat to Russia.

I think you're wrong about Ukraine military power. Regardless of air superiority, you cant run over the country that is size of Texas in just few days. For comparison, Ukraine is about 60% larger than Iraq, and they're facing much smaller attack forces than Iraq was facing against the US, and it still took almost two months for us to take complete control of Iraq. Regardless of our administration being hesitant (read kissing Putin's ass) to help Ukraine, many small countries are sending military help (anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles). Russia can do a lot of damage, but they will lose this war.


----------



## eagle1462010

NotfooledbyW said:


> You are a racist. Your respect means nothing.


Baloney.........Only racist here is people like you..............who burnde cities. and murdered police............who chanted FRY PIGS LIKE BACON.

You DESERVE NO RESPECT WHATSOEVER.


----------



## NotfooledbyW

eagle1462010 said:


> Oh I forgot........Afghanistan........leaving Americans behind at the mercy of the Taliban..........And you defend that INSANITY


You are a liar.  no Americans left behind. Trump could not end the war as promised. - left the messy part to Joe so he could go back to golfing and hosting weddings where they don’t let him get close to the brides. In case he might grab something.


----------



## BothWings

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Nah, it's spot on. And you tryingto blame any if this on anyone except Putin is transparent, predictable propaganda. Just turn off half your brain cells, and anyone can shit out this garbage.


What if China secretly ousts the government in Puerto Rico someday and puts Chinese-friendly people in charge and then Chinese factories start going up on Puerto Rican soil, increasing employment there. How long would we walk eggshells around it before simply taking it back forcefully?


badger2 said:


> Yes
> 
> Yes, correct: NATO expansion is by default capitalist expansion, the mechanism of world capitalism itself having an intimate relationship to the schizophrenic process, that constantly sets, then propels, its own limits. American automatons who are prisoners to CIA-inspired or Democrat-Nazi-inspired media propaganda are mostly unaware that Russian Foreign Relations expert Maria Zakharova is calling out the West's ahistorical mental pathologies connected to the Ukrainian conflict as they are occurring. One can understand how some Russians might view this Western contradiction: flapping its indignant lips for 2022 while forgetting 14,000 Ukrainians already killed, as Zakharoa aptly points out.
> 
> It is intelligent and politically correct to call Putin's an operation rather than an invasion. The Kremlin also holds all the cards.



I think capitalism is great...and every nation ought to have their own version of it. But  corporate imperialism backed by military force or coercive intelligence operations? That is capitalism become about as malignant as it can get. It's just as unhealthy as the suffocating clutch of communist regimes like China. China will likely not make overtly aggressive moves in the world as long as it has business agreements with people in the United States who will to use our military to go and open markets for that cooperative economic complex. Over the past 40 years there has been quite a lot exemplifying that.

I agree. The Kremlin holds the cards. The government the Russians are toppling right now is not Ukrainian. Theyre plants from the US-Chinese globalism coopertive. The only real goal of this operation is to make that go away. America has already been partially ruined by that and Russia doesn't want it near them either.


----------



## eagle1462010

NotfooledbyW said:


> You are a liar.  no Americans left behind. Trump could not end the war as promised. - left the messy part to Joe so he could go back to golfing and hosting weddings where they don’t let him get close to the brides. In case he might grab something.


LIES.......and those who were getting out had to go through TALIBAN CHECKPOINTS.

To an airport that could never be secured..........and where MORE MARINES WERE SENT HOME IN BAGS.

This is what Biden did when their caskets were brought home from dying there.


----------



## colfax_m

BothWings said:


> What if China secretly ousts the government in Puerto Rico someday and puts Chinese-friendly people in charge and then Chinese factories start going up on Puerto Rican soil, increasing employment there. How long would we walk eggshells around it before simply taking it back forcefully?


Puerto Rico is part of the US, comrade. No one is taking or threatening to take part of Russia.


----------



## d0gbreath

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Kiev under attack. China watching this and ready to take Taiwan. Russia/China alliance in full force. The Western Alliance better wake up.


The US Congress should declare war on Russia. Then after they bring the troops back to defend themselves, we can say psych!


----------



## colfax_m

eagle1462010 said:


> This is what Biden did when their caskets were brought home from dying there.


This what Trump did when Americans were being brought home from dying overseas.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

d0gbreath said:


> The US Congress should declare war on Russia. Then after they bring the troops back to defend themselves, we can say psych!


You should not post anymore. You don’t add any value.


----------



## BothWings

colfax_m said:


> Puerto Rico is part of the US, comrade. No one is taking or threatening to take part of Russia.



True that, it's a Commonwealth... But it still has more autonomy than a state does. Let's use Mexico as an example then. Do you think if the Russians came in and replaced Mexico's government we wouldn't eventually do something about it if we could? Of course we would. We'd do exactly what the Russians did. We 'd wait until they had an incompetent leader in office or some kind of internal crisis and then we'd make our move and set things back the way we wanted them. And there would definitely be collateral damage. What the hell do you think the United States has done in the Middle East??


----------



## colfax_m

BothWings said:


> True that, it's a Commonwealth... But it still has more autonomy than a state does. Let's use Mexico as an example then. Do you think if the Russians came in and replaced Mexico's government we wouldn't eventually do something about it if we could? Of course we would. We'd do exactly what the Russians did. We 'd wait until they had an incompetent leader in office or some kind of internal crisis and then we'd make our move and set things back the way we wanted them. And there would definitely be collateral damage. What the hell do you think the United States has done in the Middle East??


Puerto Rico is American soil. It's not able to declare itself independent from the country without leave of the US government.

Ukraine is a country trying to cast of the shackles of an authoritarian illiberal democracy and become an independent and free state. No one is overthrowing the government there. The people of Ukraine are choosing to be free. 

What you're suggesting is the opposite. That Russia would come in and remove the democratic government of Mexico and impose an authoritarian regime. 

So yeah, we would oppose that, because our country stands for human rights and individual freedom. 

Now if the tables were totally turned, and the US was an autocratic dictatorship like Russia, and if Russia were a free democracy who came in and helped Mexico escape the grasp of authoritarian corrupt rule, then I as an American suffering under the corruption of the hypothetical authoritarian government would welcome it.


----------



## Stryder50

Ame®icano said:


> OK Tilapia, how specific you were when you said "*History shows many a treaty to be broken*", or whatever fuck you meant with that.
> 
> As usual, leftist fucks never answer the question, but they demand all their questions to be answered. Also, there is this constant "need" to accuse others of things they're doing. You see, If you stopped at K12, it doesn't mean everyone is at the same level than you. No Tilapia, they're not.
> 
> Second, there was Rio Treaty, which Mexico left some time ago, but shortly after they signed something called Perimeter Defense or Regional Defense in North America, not sure of exact name, but since you have K12, I'm sure you can manage to find it on your own.


OK Geoduck - Try not to get you knickers in such a knot.  

It's just words on a screen and not worth your angst.  Note also that I'm not a mindreader so what you and your mind's ear think you said may not always convey as such on the screen that the rest of us are reading.

As for "broken treaties", classic example might be that of Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia carving up Poland between them in Sept. 1939.  They had a "Mutual Non-Aggression Pact (Treaty)" between them at that time.  Barely two years later Nazi Germany 'broke' that treaty by attacking and invading the USSR/Soviet Russia.  History is filled with such similar examples and such is what I was inferring to.

This is something I was implying you should have learned in course of your K-12 education, if not also in any college you may have attended.

As a single parent I raised my two sons through public education in the 1990s and noticed the decline in just a few decade from my time in the 1960s regards extend and depth of World History~USA History~Civics in general, Etc.

As a grandparent I notice the further decline in education quality in this area ever since via monitoring the knowledge/education of my grandchildren.

The USA and Mexico have a long history together and all I asked for as a more specific example of what you were inferring.

Note also that if one clicks on your name, then goes to your Profile here, and then clicks on the "About"; all we get is you claim to be a male and live in Michigan.  We don't get anything on if you are a citizen or not, what your age might be, nor especially on your background, experience, etc.  This sparsity of revelation is often common to Leftists and I'd be inclined to suspect you as such based on that secrecy.

As for myself, if anyone were to check my track of posts you'd see that I could be considered on the Right Side of Political Spectrum, at the least.  Click onto my 'Profile' and 'About' and you find more information on me than you have willingness to provide on yourself (what might that say about your integrity and honesty?).  For the most part you remain an unknown vague username to myself and others. Put that in your bong and toke it.

BTW, my usual way to cook tilapia is with a splash or two of either lemon or lime juice and a sprinkling of ground dill weed.


----------



## NotfooledbyW

eagle1462010 said:


> LIES.......and those who were getting out had to go through TALIBAN CHECKPOINTS.


All Americans got out. The Taliban were not a problem. Probably because Trump was so kind to invite them to Camp David.o


----------



## eagle1462010

NotfooledbyW said:


> All Americans got out. The Taliban were not a problem. Probably because Trump was so kind to invite them to Camp David.o


LIAR.


----------



## BothWings

colfax_m said:


> Puerto Rico is American soil. It's not able to declare itself independent from the country without leave of the US government.
> 
> Ukraine is a country trying to cast of the shackles of an authoritarian illiberal democracy and become an independent and free state. No one is overthrowing the government there. The people of Ukraine are choosing to be free.
> 
> What you're suggesting is the opposite. That Russia would come in and remove the democratic government of Mexico and impose an authoritarian regime.
> 
> So yeah, we would oppose that, because our country stands for human rights and individual freedom.
> 
> Now if the tables were totally turned, and the US was an autocratic dictatorship like Russia, and if Russia were a free democracy who came in and helped Mexico escape the grasp of authoritarian corrupt rule, then I as an American suffering under the corruption of the hypothetical authoritarian government would welcome it.


Governments are messed with for economic reasons. 

I am not suggesting that Russia would replace Mexico's government with an authoritarian regime! I am suggesting that Russia would hypothetically want to get people who are friendly with Russia and not the United States into office in Mexico. Big difference. They might be able to do so with no one noticing right away. Obama almost got away with that in Ukraine. It's a little hard to trace but the footprints are all there. It was an illegal move.


----------



## colfax_m

BothWings said:


> Governments are messed with for economic reasons.
> 
> I am not suggesting that Russia would replace Mexico's government with an authoritarian regime! I am suggesting that Russia would hypothetically want to get people who are friendly with Russia and not the United States into office in Mexico. Big difference. They might be able to do so with no one noticing right away. Obama almost got away with that in Ukraine. It's a little hard to trace but the footprints are all there. It was an illegal move.


Hard to see why a democratic government would align with an authoritarian one without themselves becoming corrupted into the same kind of authoritarianism.

These hypotheticals are simply absurd. They’re simply too far out of the realm of possibility.

Ukraine was being led by a corrupt government in 2014. Saying it was Obama that overthrew them is propaganda, not history.


----------



## NotfooledbyW

eagle1462010 said:


> LIAR


How many Americans are  trapped there. Meaning they want to get out and the Taliban won’t let them?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Sunsettommy said:


> hat "junk" is still effective with Ukraine who doesn't have anything better than what Russia has.


They are playing target practice with Russian armor using guided missiles and missile drones.

And one point I make is that it shows the world that the Russian military is not so great.


----------



## eagle1462010

NotfooledbyW said:


> How many Americans are  trapped there. Meaning they want to get out and the Taliban won’t let them?











						We Now Know How Many Americans Biden Left Behind in Afghanistan
					

Well, if there’s one thing you can count on from Joe Biden, it’s that when the going gets tough—he’ll just abandon thousands of American citizens. Like the rest of liberal




					townhall.com
				




You don't leave Americans behind........period.........anyone who does that is basically worthless to me...........WOTHLESS.

You didn't say anything about him looking at his watch while Dead Marines were coming home with the families watching did you?


----------



## NotfooledbyW

eagle1462010 said:


> LIAR.





NotfooledbyW said:


> How many Americans are trapped there. Meaning they want to get out and the Taliban won’t let them?


Can’t think of a single one, poor thing. Don’t call anybody a liar.


----------



## eagle1462010

NotfooledbyW said:


> Can’t think of a single one, poor thing. Don’t call anybody a liar.


Just posted an article MOONBAT.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

eagle1462010 said:


> Just posted an article MOONBAT.


Yes dummy, an article you never read.

he is asking how many are there who are trying to leave but cannot.


----------



## eagle1462010

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Yes dummy, an article you never read.
> 
> he is asking how many are there who are trying to leave but cannot.


I've read the articles before ....many times........

You again ARE MAKING EXCUSES for your Brandon FAILURES............you don't leave your people behind...........and you sure as hell don't look at your watch while the caskets are coming by from the fucked up policy while THE FAMILIES WATCH........


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

eagle1462010 said:


> I've read the articles before ....many times........
> 
> You again ARE MAKING EXCUSES for your Brandon FAILURES............you don't leave your people behind...........and you sure as hell don't look at your watch while the caskets are coming by from the fucked up policy while THE FAMILIES WATCH........


I didn't do any of that. You literally just invented that out of thin air to keep your little giney all puckered and to maintain your usual, low-IQ baby fit.

And no, you never read that article or the linked articles from which it was grifted.

You read the headline, maybe not even the entire headline.


----------



## BothWings

colfax_m said:


> Hard to see why a democratic government would align with an authoritarian one without themselves becoming corrupted into the same kind of authoritarianism.
> 
> These hypotheticals are simply absurd. They’re simply too far out of the realm of possibility.
> 
> Ukraine was being led by a corrupt government in 2014. Saying it was Obama that overthrew them is propaganda, not history.


What do you think RINO's are manufactured to do besides pull the wool over the public's eyes while things opposite to what they voted for are secretly done behind the scenes. Don't you think other countries have their versions of RINO's?


----------



## colfax_m

BothWings said:


> What do you think RINO's are manufactured to do besides pull the wool over the public's eyes while things opposite to what they voted for are secretly done behind the scenes. Don't you think other countries have their versions of RINO's?


WTF are you on about?


----------



## eagle1462010

BothWings said:


> What do you think RINO's are manufactured to do besides pull the wool over the public's eyes while things opposite to what they voted for are secretly done behind the scenes. Don't you think other countries have their versions of RINO's?


They are all with the WEF now it seems..........By 2030 you will own nothing and be happy.  The new WEF THEME.

Some serious shit has to go down before that can happen....


----------



## BothWings

BothWings said:


> What do you think RINO's are manufactured to do besides pull the wool over the public's eyes while things opposite to what they voted for are secretly done behind the scenes. Don't you think other countries have their versions of RINO's?


To spell it out for you that's how a democratically elected government could be replaced by an authoritarian one without the people even realizing it right away.


----------



## beagle9

NotfooledbyW said:


> I Support BLM.,
> 
> 
> 
> Your favorite fascists Putin is killing Ukrainian civilians where they sleep and you give us a ‘maybe’ righttly so.,  not convinced yourself is a bad moral place to be right now?


Where was your damned outrage when Putin was in Syria battling ISIS fighters because the U.S. wouldn't cross a certain line in that theater ????


----------



## Ame®icano

Stryder50 said:


> OK Geoduck - Try not to get you knickers in such a knot.
> 
> It's just words on a screen and not worth your angst.  Note also that I'm not a mindreader so what you and your mind's ear think you said may not always convey as such on the screen that the rest of us are reading.


Although you claim you're not mind reader, you can't suppress your "readings" toward my education that you're obsessed with. Sorry to disappoint you, but I have probably spent in schools and universities more time and money than you and your sons together.



Stryder50 said:


> As for "broken treaties", classic example might be that of Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia carving up Poland between them in Sept. 1939.  They had a "Mutual Non-Aggression Pact (Treaty)" between them at that time.  Barely two years later Nazi Germany 'broke' that treaty by attacking and invading the USSR/Soviet Russia.  History is filled with such similar examples and such is what I was inferring to.



Irrelevant to our discussion, since both countries Germany and USSR were dictatorships with their own ambitions of world dominance. Just in that case, both sides were planning to attack each other, Hitler because of oil, and Stalin because of World Comintern beliefs. It just happened that Hitler did it first and caught Stalin by surprise.

However, you still haven't answered the question I asked you initially: "Do you think Mexico would be better off if they break the treaty they have with us?"



Stryder50 said:


> This is something I was implying you should have learned in course of your K-12 education, if not also in any college you may have attended.



If you had facts, and you don't, you wouldn't be implying, mind reading, and assuming. None of those are in touch with reality, except in your own mind, perhaps..



Stryder50 said:


> As a single parent I raised my two sons through public education in the 1990s and noticed the decline in just a few decade from my time in the 1960s regards extend and depth of World History~USA History~Civics in general, Etc.
> 
> As a grandparent I notice the further decline in education quality in this area ever since via monitoring the knowledge/education of my grandchildren.
> 
> The USA and Mexico have a long history together and all I asked for as a more specific example of what you were inferring.



There were only two defense treaties we had with Mexico, and from one of them Mexico stepped out some 20 years ago. Now pick the treaty that you want to discuss. 


Stryder50 said:


> Note also that if one clicks on your name, then goes to your Profile here, and then clicks on the "About"; all we get is you claim to be a male and live in Michigan.  We don't get anything on if you are a citizen or not, what your age might be, nor especially on your background, experience, etc.  This sparsity of revelation is often common to Leftists and I'd be inclined to suspect you as such based on that secrecy.



"We don't get anything"... And it drives you nutz.

I don't give a shit about what you want. What would change in my posts, or in yours, even if you know more about me? There is no secrecy, and in 13 years on this board some earned to get to know me better. Are you offended you're not one of them? The amount of Information "about" me is about the same as most of posters here. You wanna know more, either read my posts, or earn it.



Stryder50 said:


> As for myself, if anyone were to check my track of posts you'd see that I could be considered on the Right Side of Political Spectrum, at the least.  Click onto my 'Profile' and 'About' and you find more information on me than you have willingness to provide on yourself (what might that say about your integrity and honesty?).  For the most part you remain an unknown vague username to myself and others. Put that in your bong and toke it.
> 
> BTW, my usual way to cook tilapia is with a splash or two of either lemon or lime juice and a sprinkling of ground dill weed.



Again, I don't care what you put in your profile. It's completely irrelevant to have the conversation. As you being on "right side of political spectrum", you can claim anything. I haven't read enough of your posts to make my own conclusion. So far I learned that you have a sharp tongue. But sharp tongue is no indication of a keen mind.


----------



## beagle9

Ame®icano said:


> Biden reversing Trump's policies against Russia shows that Biden is much closer to Putin then left portray him to be. He's continuing Obama's policies that let Russia do whatever they want in Ukraine. If he's really serious, and he's not, about punishing Russia, he wouldn't remove sanctions, he wouldn't approve Nordstream 2, and he would impose all available sanctions. Heck, he would take them to NATO immediately, without considering what Putin says. But he's not doing so, and we all pretty much know why. Beside, Biden is still angry on Ukraine because they didn't back him up on Burisma and Hunter issue, and against Trump. Putin's threats are working so well that he expanded his threats about joining NATO to Sweden and Finland, two countries that were always pro west oriented, and were never military threat to Russia.
> 
> I think you're wrong about Ukraine military power. Regardless of air superiority, you cant run over the country that is size of Texas in just few days. For comparison, Ukraine is about 60% larger than Iraq, and they're facing much smaller attack forces than Iraq was facing against the US, and it still took almost two months for us to take complete control of Iraq. Regardless of our administration being hesitant (read kissing Putin's ass) to help Ukraine, many small countries are sending military help (anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles). Russia can do a lot of damage, but they will lose this war.


Just don't think that Putin started something that he isn't fully capable of finishing. Russia ain't no joke, and this guy in Ukraine vowing the Ukrainian people fight to the death reminds me of Hitler's desperation in the face of overwhelming odds against the allied invasions.

Why doesn't the leader of Ukraine step down, and spare that country and people the violence of war and death ? Is he that narcissistic and selfish that he would see his fellow countrymen killed as he defies logic and reason instead of sacrificing his position so that Ukrainians can live ??? At some point right ??


----------



## Ame®icano

beagle9 said:


> Just don't think that Putin started something that he isn't fully capable of finishing. Russia ain't no joke, and this guy in Ukraine vowing the Ukrainian people fight to the death reminds me of Hitler's desperation in the face of overwhelming odds against the allied invasions.
> 
> Why doesn't the leader of Ukraine step down, and spare that country and people the violence of war and death ? Is he that narcissistic and selfish that he would see his fellow countrymen killed as he defies logic and reason instead of sacrificing his position so that Ukrainians can live ??? At some point right ??



Can you explain why should Zelensky step down?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> Can you explain why should Zelensky step down?


Some might say, to save the lives of his countrymen.

Some, like Putin.


----------



## beagle9

Ame®icano said:


> Can you explain why should Zelensky step down?


Because he shouldn't want his people killed over political issues that Russia undoubtedly is attacking him for right ?? The overwhelming odds say that the Ukrainians are in for a slaughter if decide to fight against those odds to the bitter end right ?? The Chess game doesn't look good in their favor does it ??


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

beagle9 said:


> Because he shouldn't want his people killed over political issues that Russia undoubtedly is attacking him for right ?? The overwhelming odds say that the Ukrainians are in for a slaughter if decide to fight against those odds to the bitter end right ?? The Chess game doesn't look good in their favor does it ??


He doesn't want his people killed . 

Putin wants Zelensky's people killed.

So let's start there.


----------



## beagle9

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> He doesn't want his people killed .
> 
> Putin wants Zelensky's people killed.
> 
> So let's start there.


If you tell your people to fight to the bitter end against overwhelming odds like Hitler did from his bunker, then yes you have gotten your people killed. I agree he doesn't want his people killed of course, but his word's can bring about that situation as if he said it straight out.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

beagle9 said:


> If you tell your people to fight to the bitter end against overwhelming odds like Hitler did from his bunker, then yes you have gotten your people killed. I agree he doesn't want his people killed of course, but his word's can bring about that situation as if he said it straight out.


He isn't in a bunker, popping pills, like Hitler was. To be fair.

I understand your point.

BUT

Do you see or hear outrage in Ukraine at the conscription or the all-out war posture of the country? If so, I haven't seen it. These aren't like Polish Nazi conscripts. They are fighting for their homeland.


----------



## Sunsettommy

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> They are playing target practice with Russian armor using guided missiles and missile drones.
> 
> And one point I make is that it shows the world that the Russian military is not so great.



But somehow you fail to bring up credible reports.

Never said they were great, but they do have a large advantage in tank numbers and manpower.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Sunsettommy said:


> Never said they were great, but they do have a large advantage in tank numbers and manpower.


For sure.

They probably don't have enough javelins or missile drones to destory 1/4 of all the russian amor.

like if they one-shot one killed an armored vehicle with every tank  killer they have, Russia still has 20,000+


----------



## Sunsettommy

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> For sure.
> 
> They probably don't have enough javelins or missile drones to destory 1/4 of all the russian amor.
> 
> like if they one-shot one killed an armored vehicle with every tank  killer they have, Russia still has 20,000+



Yup and Ukraine has only 34 attack Helos for tank busting while Russia has 544 of them (second largest in the world)

But Tanks are ALWAYS vulnerable to Attack Helos and Fighter interceptor Jets, but Ukraine has few planes (69) while Russia has many (772)

LINK


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Sunsettommy said:


> Yup and Ukraine has only 34 attack Helos for tank busting while Russia has 544 of them (second largest in the world)
> 
> But Tanks are ALWAYS vulnerable to Attack Helos and Fighter interceptor Jets, but Ukraine has few planes (69) while Russia has many (772)
> 
> LINK


And they have Missile drones and javelins.

The drone videos are starting to hit the internet.


----------



## Delldude

Anyone see Medvedev's  comments about the west's sanctions and how Russia is going to freeze assets of all the west companies in Russia?

Yo', Joe.....


----------



## Ame®icano

beagle9 said:


> Because he shouldn't want his people killed over political issues that Russia undoubtedly is attacking him for right ?? The overwhelming odds say that the Ukrainians are in for a slaughter if decide to fight against those odds to the bitter end right ?? The Chess game doesn't look good in their favor does it ??



For the sake of argument, let's say he steps down, and people elect another president who wants to join NATO. What happen then?


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> For sure.
> 
> They probably don't have enough javelins or missile drones to destory 1/4 of all the russian amor.
> 
> like if they one-shot one killed an armored vehicle with every tank  killer they have, Russia still has 20,000+



Ukraine is getting help. Not from Biden but from European countries. 

What's preventing Biden to send them Javelins?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> For the sake of argument, let's say he steps down, and people elect another president who wants to join NATO. What happen then?


Which would inevitably happen, as the people of Ukrane overwhelmingly want to be part of the West.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> Ukraine is getting help. Not from Biden but from European countries.
> 
> What's preventing Biden to send them Javelins?


Not a single thing is stopping him, apparently:

Biden to send $350M in military aid to Ukraine​By Joe Gould
 Feb 26, 11:14 AM

WASHINGTON ― U.S. President Joe Biden has authorized the State Department to send another $350 million in weapons, including Javelin anti-tank weapons, to help Ukrainian forces fight back the ongoing Russian invasion

- defensenews.com


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Not a single thing is stopping him, apparently:
> 
> Biden to send $350M in military aid to Ukraine​By Joe Gould
> Feb 26, 11:14 AM
> 
> WASHINGTON ― U.S. President Joe Biden has authorized the State Department to send another $350 million in weapons, including Javelin anti-tank weapons, to help Ukrainian forces fight back the ongoing Russian invasion
> 
> - defensenews.com



That was initiated by the Congress, not by Biden. He signed it though. 

$350 million is drop in a bucket. Single Javelin cost $80K. 

Europe and NATO could step in and proclaim Ukraine a "no fly zone". That'll give Ukraine fighting chance.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> That was initiated by the Congress, not by Biden. He signed it though.
> 
> $350 million is drop in a bucket. Single Javelin cost $80K.
> 
> Europe and NATO could step in and proclaim Ukraine a "no fly zone". That'll give Ukraine fighting chance.


They could indeed, but Russia has nukes and Putin may be out of his mind. Nobody likes hearing it, but the West is not yet at the point of risking its own skin for Ukraine.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Which would inevitably happen, as the people of Ukrane overwhelmingly want to be part of the West.



They don't have western mentality, but for sure they don't want to be part of Russia. 
Russians fuck them over throughout the history that only thing they have for Russians is a hate. 
The same with Poland.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Pathetic display of demonstrable lying by the Kremilin:

"In connection with the expected negotiations, the Russian president yesterday afternoon ordered the suspension of the advance of the main forces of the Russian Federation," Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters during a conference call.

"Since the Ukrainian side refused to negotiate, the advance of the Russian forces resumed this afternoon."

- The Telegraph
..............

Propaganda to cover for the stalled offensive. It is a demonstrable lie, as Zelensky has publicly implored Putin to come to the table on a daily basis. Oops, poor little guy told on himself and on Russia, there. It shows the reports are true that Russia is encountering much more resistance than expected.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Pathetic display of demonstrable lying by the Kremilin:
> 
> "In connection with the expected negotiations, the Russian president yesterday afternoon ordered the suspension of the advance of the main forces of the Russian Federation," Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters during a conference call.
> 
> "Since the Ukrainian side refused to negotiate, the advance of the Russian forces resumed this afternoon."
> 
> - The Telegraph
> ..............
> 
> Propaganda to cover for the stalled offensive. It is a demonstrable lie, as Zelensky has publicly implored Putin to come to the table on a daily basis. Oops, poor little guy told on himself and on Russia, there. It shows the reports are true that Russia is encountering much more resistance than expected.



It'll take time, but when all this is over, Ukraine will have Donetsk, Luhansk, and Crimea back.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> They don't have western mentality, but for sure they don't want to be part of Russia.


It appears that they do. They have a parliament and a president and try to hold free and fair elections. Gay people are not persecuted, in Ukraine. Journalists are not murdered, in Ukraine.

They are ready to come into the fold, by any measure, if you ask me.


----------



## Ame®icano

Ame®icano said:


> Ukraine is getting help. Not from Biden but from European countries.
> 
> What's preventing Biden to send them Javelins?



Here we go. The US to send $350 mill in military help. Last time Obama and Biden did it, they sent blankets and helmets.

Europe is waking up. Beside Estonia and Poland, Germans decided to help.

"Germany will send 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 Stinger missiles to Ukraine, marking a complete reversal in Berlin's restrictive arms export policy, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz announced Saturday."

"Germany will also lift its ban on other countries exporting German-origin weapons, allowing the Netherlands to transfer 400 rocket-propelled grenade launchers to Ukraine."

Germany to send thousands of weapons to Ukraine in major reversal​


----------



## Ringo

Ringo said:


> In Kiev, they distribute weapons without any documents... How many years later will law enforcement agencies have to confiscate them from bandits?


Russian war correspondent Alexander Kotz draws parallels with the distribution of weapons in Libya in 2011, which he witnessed. He believes that this is why Western embassies were evacuated from Kiev so quickly, although it is obvious, that the Russian army would not have bombed them. "Tripoli immediately turned into a bandit freebie, in which everyone was shooting at everyone, there were roadblocks with armed children on the roads and only luck and a man with the same Kalashnikov could guarantee your safety. None of them were going to defend Gaddafi, and the rebels, who entered the city dealt with the bandits harshly and quickly. Thousands of guns distributed to civilians in Ukraine will not strengthen the defense of cities. But for a long time they will be covered in blood in criminal reports. Actually, foreign diplomats evacuated from Kiev not so much because of the Russian threat. The West has a lot of experience in sowing chaos in foreign countries," the correspondent writes.
Political scientist Sergey Markov believes that by distributing weapons, the regime of Vladimir Zelensky is trying to hide embezzlement from military warehouses. In his opinion, the distribution of weapons also clearly indicates that the authorities in Kiev are well aware that they will not be the authorities in Kiev in a few days.

Kiev journalist Vyacheslav Chechillo writes that the distribution of weapons exacerbates the chaos in the city.

"Meanwhile, a humanitarian catastrophe is brewing in Kiev. Shops and pharmacies do not work. In those that do open, there is almost nothing. The subway does not work, the left part of the city is cut off from the right. Going out into the street in many areas is just scary - constant shootings, fellow citizens who are mad with hysteria catch either Russian saboteurs, or looters, or each other," the journalist writes.

With any outcome of hostilities, thousands of guns now on hand, will get to the black market, will be used for robbery and looting. And such a prospect will create problems for any Ukrainian government in the future. It will take a long time to withdraw these weapons, but Vladimir Zelensky seems to know that this will no longer be his concern.
There is no special use from the untrained "Volkssturm" in battles with the regular army, as the experience of the agonizing Nazi Germany during the spring of 1945 has shown. However, such tactics quite fit into the outline of the strategy, that West is implementing in Ukraine, and  have repeatedly stated, that Ukraine will allegedly become a "new Afghanistan" for Russia. Zelensky is fulfilling this assignment as best he can, and Ukraine, after its eight-year unsuccessful journey to Europe, is really turning onto the road of Afghanistan.


----------



## Ringo

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> It appears that they do. They have a parliament and a president and try to hold free and fair elections. Gay people are not persecuted, in Ukraine. Journalists are not murdered, in Ukraine.


You really have no clue...


----------



## Ringo

Eskimos and polar bears are strongly against it.


----------



## NotfooledbyW

toobfreak said:


> Biden wants war. He is the cause of it all. Putting a weak man like him in was bad enough, they didn't dare try this with Trump in office.



NFBW {[ wrote: Bull Crap!



> Condi Rice turns tables on Fox News host: NATO 'unites' under Biden the way Trump never could David Edwards​February 27, 2022​











						Condi Rice turns tables on Fox News host: NATO 'unites' under Biden the way Trump never could
					

Former Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice on Sunday praised President Joe Biden after NATO united under him in a way that it did not under President Donald Trump.  	"There's this worry among generals whom I've talked with," Fox News host Harris Faulkner told Rice. "Nobody wants a world war. But...




					www.rawstory.com
				




22FEB27-POST#0735


----------



## beagle9

Ame®icano said:


> For the sake of argument, let's say he steps down, and people elect another president who wants to join NATO. What happen then?


At this point it's doubtful that Russia will allow another western puppet government to occupy that territory if it brings NATO to it's back yard like that. Still wonder what the final trigger was, otherwise that finally brought it all to a head. Ukraine has been fighting against separatist Russian backed rebels for years now, so it's not like this war just started in Ukraine.


----------



## eagle1462010

beagle9 said:


> At this point it's doubtful that Russia will allow another western puppet government to occupy that territory if it brings NATO to it's back yard like that. Still wonder what the final trigger was, otherwise that finally brought it all to a head. Ukraine has been fighting against separatist Russian backed rebels for years now, so it's not like this war just started in Ukraine.


Leaked messages to China to say NATO was going to accept Ukraine in was one possible answer I heard.


----------



## Ame®icano

beagle9 said:


> At this point it's doubtful that Russia will allow another western puppet government to occupy that territory if it brings NATO to it's back yard like that. Still wonder what the final trigger was, otherwise that finally brought it all to a head. Ukraine has been fighting against separatist Russian backed rebels for years now, so it's not like this war just started in Ukraine.



Listen to yourself. Russians are creating conflicts in Ukraine since they became independent, and it doesn't matter who is the president, Russians wont stop. 

Putin provoke crisis, then steps in as a peace maker to protect Russian interest. He did it in Crimea, he did it in Donetsk, He did it on Luhansk. 
He also tried it in Odessa in 2014, but it didn't work that time. Every time, the US did nothing (read he got OK from the US).


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> Last time Obama and Biden did it, they sent blankets and helmets.


Right, but they authorized private shipments of weapons. The just didn't authorize the federal government to give them directly. So plenty of lethal weaponry went to Ukraine , as authorized by the Obama administration.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ringo said:


> You really have no clue...


Not compelling. With Russian as a first language, I see you are having a hard time making good points in English.


----------



## Ringo

Ame®icano said:


> He also tried it in Odessa in 2014, but it didn't work that time. Every time, the US did nothing (read he got OK from the US).


The United States stood behind the Maidan in 2014 and spent $ 5 billion to prepare for a change of power in Ukraine. And in Odessa, nazi bandits burned 48 people alive. Do you like these actions? 
As for Putin, if he wanted, most of Ukraine, especially the eastern and southeastern, would have been happy to join Russia if Putin had then sent troops to help the then legitimate president in 2014. 
A lot has changed in 8 years, after intensified propaganda. Well, just like in the USA after propaganda, lasting for generations, the population in many matters of life is zombified to idiocy. Idiotocracy getting closer.


----------



## NotfooledbyW

Ame®icano said:


> Ukraine is getting help. Not from Biden but from European countries.


You are a liar. Please correct this post before proceeding.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Right, but they authorized private shipments of weapons. The just didn't authorize the federal government to give them directly. So plenty of lethal weaponry went to Ukraine , as authorized by the Obama administration.



And you know that how? Why would they hide it? 

The US government didn't hide it when Trump send them Javelins, so your argument that they did it secretly has no legs to stand on.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> And you know that how?


Because there are records of it. You can find it. It was reported.

Search:

January 26, 2018
Lethal Weapons to Ukraine: A Primer​By Peter J. Marzalik and Aric Toler


----------



## Ame®icano

NotfooledbyW said:


> You are a liar. Please correct this post before proceeding.



Didn't take your meds this morning, kiddo?



> "Germany will send 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 Stinger missiles to Ukraine, marking a complete reversal in Berlin's restrictive arms export policy, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz announced Saturday."
> 
> "Germany will also lift its ban on other countries exporting German-origin weapons, allowing the Netherlands to transfer 400 rocket-propelled grenade launchers to Ukraine."



Germany to send thousands of weapons to Ukraine in major reversal​Estonia delivers Javelin anti-tank missiles to Ukraine​Poland Is Sending Missiles, Drones And Thousands Of Artillery Rounds To Ukraine​


----------



## NotfooledbyW

Ringo said:


> The United States stood behind the Maidan in 2014



The United States did not launch a military invasion into the Ukraine In 2012 to overthrow the Ukrainian Pro-Russian  government.

In Kiev there was a coup. The Ukrainian constitution was violated and Putin did a bloodless coup but indeed bloodless annexation of Crimea. There was a humanitarian element to that that is not emphasized in the west. However what Putin is doing now is terrorism and war crimes. There is no justification based on previous history to those who want  to explain away Putin turning Russia into a pariah state.


----------



## Ringo

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Not compelling. With Russian as a first language, I see you are having a hard time making good points in English.


I am sorry, that my english level is to high for you, just try to keep up and you learn eventually.


----------



## NotfooledbyW

Ame®icano said:


> Didn't take your meds this morning, kiddo?
> 
> 
> 
> Germany to send thousands of weapons to Ukraine in major reversal​Estonia delivers Javelin anti-tank missiles to Ukraine​Poland Is Sending Missiles, Drones And Thousands Of Artillery Rounds To Ukraine​



are you mentally dysfunctional. Because other countries send weapons does that mean the United States didn’t. Search a little farther


----------



## Wyatt earp

NotfooledbyW said:


> Your opinion is self-refuted by the reality on the ground. Biden has theAmerican public and political and business establishments united not seen since 09/11/01 against a war criminal and a threat to Europe who will be stopped.
> 
> That is except for Trump goons rooting for Putin to defeat Biden’s presidency since they can’t.
> 
> What’s the MAGA dear leader focused on today …  tearing apart the GOP ., and that is a good thing.
> 
> 
> 'Every RINO must go!': Trump melts down on Georgia lawmakers and their 'puppet master' Mitch McConnell​
> Tom Boggioni
> February 26, 2022


The majority of Americans think Biden is a failure according to NPR


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ringo said:


> I am sorry, that my english level is to high for you, just try to keep up and you learn eventually.


You Russian trolls come here and show your asses...

What you don't get is this place has been a troll training ground for a decade. You're like a low level minor leaguer getting an at bat in a major league game. 

You bring no troll tools that haven't been swatted down a million times on this board


----------



## Ringo

Russia is still obliged to fulfill its financial obligations to the Council of Europe after the suspension of its powers in the organization, PACE head Tiny Cox said.  
Real Tiny Cocks...


----------



## bravoactual

Putin Puts Russian Nuclear Forces High Alert.









						Putin puts nuclear forces on high alert, escalating tensions
					

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — President Vladimir Putin dramatically escalated East-West tensions by ordering Russian nuclear forces put on high alert Sunday, while Ukraine's embattled leader agreed to talks with Moscow as Putin's troops and tanks drove deeper into the country, closing in around the capital.




					apnews.com
				




KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — In a dramatic escalation of East-West tensions over Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, President Vladimir Putin ordered Russian nuclear forces put on high alert Sunday in response to what he called “*aggressive statements*” by leading NATO powers.

The directive to put Russia’s nuclear weapons in an increased state of readiness for launch raised fears that the crisis could boil over into nuclear warfare, whether by design or mistake.

Putin’s step is *“potentially putting in play forces that, if there’s a miscalculation, could make things much, much more dangerous*,” said a senior U.S. defense official, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Putin's Invasion is slowing down as Ukrainian Forces continue to resist the Russian Military.  German and Poland of send Anti-Weapons and Stinger Missles to Ukraine.

Putin is spiraling right now.  He probably Ukraine would just fold like someone holding a pair of dueces and instead the Ukrainian Military and Civilian Forces are fighting.  

Use of Nuclear Weapons is nothing MADD and he knows this.

Yes Cons, Cheer the this Russian Communist Dictator as he leads the world Nuclear War...


----------



## Ame®icano

Ringo said:


> The United States stood behind the Maidan in 2014 and spent $ 5 billion to prepare for a change of power in Ukraine. And in Odessa, nazi bandits burned 48 people alive. Do you like these actions?
> As for Putin, if he wanted, most of Ukraine, especially the eastern and southeastern, would have been happy to join Russia if Putin had then sent troops to help the then legitimate president in 2014.
> A lot has changed in 8 years, after intensified propaganda. Well, just like in the USA after propaganda, lasting for generations, the population in many matters of life is zombified to idiocy. Idiotocracy getting closer.



Why don't you read my post again, but this time carefully.

Second, those who locked themselves in the building were anti-Maidan (pro-Yanukovych, pro-Russian). No excuse for burning the building, but they did kill some on the other side.
Large majority of Ukrainians wanted closer ties to EU. Anti-Maidan Yanukovych fled to Russia.

Calling those who are pro-Maidan (Euromaidan, anti-Russian) Nazis, is rather childish.

Being anti-Russia, or anti-Putin, doesn't make you Nazi. Just as being anti-Democrat doesn't make you racist or bigot. But for imbeciles, that is the only "argument" they got.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Because there are records of it. You can find it. It was reported.
> 
> Search:
> 
> January 26, 2018
> Lethal Weapons to Ukraine: A Primer​By Peter J. Marzalik and Aric Toler



And you provide the article that confirms what I said. Congress did approve sending lethal weapons to Ukraine in 2014, but Obama didn't authorize it.

From your own article...



> In a rare show of bipartisanship in 2014, the US Congress passed the Ukraine Freedom Support Act, which appropriated $350 million in security assistance, including anti-tank and anti-armor weapons, to the government of Ukraine to defend its territorial integrity. *Despite strong congressional backing, President Barack Obama decided not to authorize the US government sale or financing of lethal weapons to Ukraine.*



I guess that has something to do with this...


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> And you provide the article that confirms what I said. Congress did approve sending lethal weapons to Ukraine in 2014, but Obama didn't authorize it.


Right. He authorized private transactions, though. As the link shows.

That was my point. I clearly stated it. Why dodge it? Facts are facts. You either account for them and adjust your narrative, or you lie. Those are your choices.

He could have stopped them. Instead he authorized lots of lethal weaponry to be sent to Ukraine. 

It's just a fact.


----------



## Flash




----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Right. He authorized private transactions, though. As the link shows.
> 
> That was my point. I clearly stated it. Why dodge it? Facts are facts. You either account for them and adjust your narrative, or you lie. Those are your choices.
> 
> He could have stopped them. Instead he authorized lots of lethal weaponry to be sent to Ukraine.
> 
> It's just a fact.



During Trump's first impeachment trial it all came to light. 

The US did NOT send lethal military to Ukraine. 

Private sales, were not explicitly authorized, as article said "his policy did not prevent the private export".


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> The US did NOT send lethal military to Ukraine


Right, but Americans did, as authorized by the Obama administration.

We gonna go in circles all day? You either admit this fact and account for it, or you lie.
Two choices.


----------



## Ame®icano

NotfooledbyW said:


> are you mentally dysfunctional. Because other countries send weapons does that mean the United States didn’t. Search a little farther



That's exactly what it means.

Authorization to send weapons to Ukraine came out just yesterday.


----------



## beagle9

Ame®icano said:


> Listen to yourself. Russians are creating conflicts in Ukraine since they became independent, and it doesn't matter who is the president, Russians wont stop.
> 
> Putin provoke crisis, then steps in as a peace maker to protect Russian interest. He did it in Crimea, he did it in Donetsk, He did it on Luhansk.
> He also tried it in Odessa in 2014, but it didn't work that time. Every time, the US did nothing (read he got OK from the US).


Ok, and what's the solution then ??

I have a friend that married a Ukrainian woman after bringing her here to the U.S.
This was years ago, and when she would go back to visit, she couldn't visit family members in the east due to the war. Like I said it's been going on for years now.


----------



## Ame®icano

bravoactual said:


> Yes Cons, Cheer the this Russian Communist Dictator as he leads the world Nuclear War...



These imbeciles don't understand that not cheering to Biden's failures doesn't mean cheering for Putin.


----------



## Indeependent

Ame®icano said:


> These imbeciles don't understand that not cheering to Biden's failures doesn't mean cheering for Putin.


*These imbeciles

BINGO*!


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> These imbeciles don't understand that not cheering to Biden's failures doesn't mean cheering for Putin.


But the only failures you tried to argue were both false.

So, when people see that, don't be surprised if they speculate at your motivations for lying, or for, at the very least, just pulling talking points out of your ass.


----------



## Silver Cat

eagle1462010 said:


> One Typhoon left.  They are toast


No.1) Eurofighter is still not able to use nuclear weapons. 2) Eurofighter isn't able to delivery even one bomb to Moscow. 3) Few bombs won't kill all Russians, but will make them very angry. 4) Europeans won't attack if Russian retaliation will kill them all, and the USA already lost.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Silver Cat said:


> No.1) Eurofighter is still not able to use nuclear weapons. 2) Eurofighter isn't able to delivery even one bomb to Moscow. 3) Few bombs won't kill all Russians, but will make them very angry. 4) Europeans won't attack if Russian retaliation will kill them all, and the USA already lost.


Putin has shown the world how inept, unorganized, and weak his military is. I'm sure this is the opposite of the message he thought he would send.


----------



## Silver Cat

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Putin has shown the world how inept, unorganized, and weak his military is. I'm sure this is the opposite of the message he thought he would send.


Really? How long did it take to crush Iraq? Ukraine is larger than Iraq and supported by NATO.


----------



## Ame®icano

beagle9 said:


> Ok, and what's the solution then ??
> 
> I have a friend that married a Ukrainian woman after bringing her here to the U.S.
> This was years ago, and when she would go back to visit, she couldn't visit family members in the east due to the war. Like I said it's been going on for years now.



Let's look into recent history.

In 2014 Ukraine had pro-Russian president, Yanukovych. At the time, there was not even mention of Ukraine joining NATO and Putin still invaded because Ukraine was seeking closer ties with the EU.

This time Putin's excuse to attack is Ukraine seeking NATO membership. We know that's bullshit excuse and propaganda, because there are already former Soviet countries (Baltic states) that are members of NATO and bordering with Russia.

So what's the solution?

One, call Putin's bluff and accept Ukraine to NATO immediately, send air support, weapons, stop Putin in his tracks. That would show him we don't tolerate his expansion in Ukraine or elsewhere, since he has already threatened Finland and Sweden.

Two, US could just sign bilateral agreement with Russia and assure them Ukraine wouldn't join NATO if they pull back to original borders. Deal is off if they don't withdraw and we'll use solution one. It seems cheaper than war doesn't it?

The bottom line, the US and NATO wants this war. Even if Putin pulls back, he'll still be a boogie man. That guarantees great future for our military complex cabal.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Silver Cat said:


> Really? How long did it take to crush Iraq? Ukraine is larger than Iraq and supported by NATO.


Nice try, propaganda boy. US tanks had much further to travel in Iraq.

60 miles from Belarus to Kyiv. Putin is now stalled, because Ukrainians are killing  so many Russians and and destroying so many Russia vehicles that they can't make progress.

That never happened to the US in Iraq.

But thanks for strengthening my points.


----------



## Ame®icano

eagle1462010 said:


> About the only one.  Poland is the only one honoring their word.



You mean their obligations to NATO? There are couple of others, new members like Romania and Croatia.

If we would ask, Poland would be first to join us in war against Russians. That's how much they hate them, for WWII, and post WWII era during Warsaw pact.


----------



## Indeependent

Ame®icano said:


> You mean their obligations to NATO? There are couple of others, new members like Romania and Croatia.
> 
> If we would ask, Poland would be first to join us in was against Russians. That's how much they hate them, for WWII, and post WWII era during Warsaw pact.


Nearby nations have promised to deliver weapons to Ukraine.
What happens when Russia bombs these transports?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Indeependent said:


> Nearby nations have promised to deliver weapons to Ukraine.
> What happens when Russia bombs these transports?


What happens when they don't? Weapons have already been shipped to Ukraine.


----------



## Ame®icano

Indeependent said:


> Nearby nations have promised to deliver weapons to Ukraine.
> What happens when Russia bombs these transports?



Information like these usually get published *after* deliveries have been made.


----------



## Indeependent

Ame®icano said:


> Information like these usually get published *after* deliveries have been made.


Apparently, NYC's WABC Talk Radio doesn't know this rule.


----------



## beagle9

bravoactual said:


> Putin Puts Russian Nuclear Forces High Alert.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin puts nuclear forces on high alert, escalating tensions
> 
> 
> KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — President Vladimir Putin dramatically escalated East-West tensions by ordering Russian nuclear forces put on high alert Sunday, while Ukraine's embattled leader agreed to talks with Moscow as Putin's troops and tanks drove deeper into the country, closing in around the capital.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — In a dramatic escalation of East-West tensions over Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, President Vladimir Putin ordered Russian nuclear forces put on high alert Sunday in response to what he called “*aggressive statements*” by leading NATO powers.
> 
> The directive to put Russia’s nuclear weapons in an increased state of readiness for launch raised fears that the crisis could boil over into nuclear warfare, whether by design or mistake.
> 
> Putin’s step is *“potentially putting in play forces that, if there’s a miscalculation, could make things much, much more dangerous*,” said a senior U.S. defense official, speaking on condition of anonymity.
> 
> Putin's Invasion is slowing down as Ukrainian Forces continue to resist the Russian Military.  German and Poland of send Anti-Weapons and Stinger Missles to Ukraine.
> 
> Putin is spiraling right now.  He probably Ukraine would just fold like someone holding a pair of dueces and instead the Ukrainian Military and Civilian Forces are fighting.
> 
> Use of Nuclear Weapons is nothing MADD and he knows this.
> 
> Yes Cons, Cheer the this Russian Communist Dictator as he leads the world Nuclear War...


No one's cheering Putin you ignoramus, so keep your idiot political bull crap out of this. It's idiot's like you that have brought about the perceived weakness in which has empowered the thinking by a world super power leader to make nuclear threat's to our nation and other's when he made his move to do what he has now done. Then we have a compromised president that is having trouble making a sentence being taunted to act tough in the situation. I said it years ago, that the left would have the world burn if it can't get it's way.


----------



## Flash

The Russians are invading Europe.  Putin puts his nuclear forces on alert and President Potatohead leaves DC and goes home.

Anybody that voted for Potatohead is a fucking idiot.


----------



## beagle9

Ame®icano said:


> Let's look into recent history.
> 
> In 2014 Ukraine had pro-Russian president, Yanukovych. At the time, there was not even mention of Ukraine joining NATO and Putin still invaded because Ukraine was seeking closer ties with the EU.
> 
> This time Putin's excuse to attack is Ukraine seeking NATO membership. We know that's bullshit excuse and propaganda, because there are already former Soviet countries (Baltic states) that are members of NATO and bordering with Russia.
> 
> So what's the solution?
> 
> One, call Putin's bluff and accept Ukraine to NATO immediately, send air support, weapons, stop Putin in his tracks. That would show him we don't tolerate his expansion in Ukraine or elsewhere, since he has already threatened Finland and Sweden.
> 
> Two, US could just sign bilateral agreement with Russia and assure them Ukraine wouldn't join NATO if they pull back to original borders. Deal is off if they don't withdraw and we'll use solution one. It seems cheaper than war doesn't it?
> 
> The bottom line, the US and NATO wants this war. Even if Putin pulls back, he'll still be a boogie man. That guarantees great future for our military complex cabal.


I like number two, but not sure if Biden is respected enough to negotiate anything with the Russians. Remember he was part of the lie's that continually said that DJT was a Russian puppet, and in light of all the evidence suggesting that the lies were just that "LIES", he still doubled down for political reasons and all for the insecurities he has concerning Trump.

We have been weakened from within, and we are no longer respected by places like Putin's Russia, and this is all because of the lies and destruction against our president from within, otherwise suggesting that Russia was the bad guy's causing all the trouble in our election process, when in fact it's been proven to be a lie now.

The world has got to be looking at us as a corrupt nation who will dispose a leader even if that targeted leader had done nothing while in office, otherwise to be disposed over.

The wave effect that it has caused may have reached tsunami heights. Diplomacy is highly important to get Putin to pause in his actions, but that depends on how the campaign is going within. If he's struggling to achieve his goals, then it's doubtful he will be willing to listen to much while under high-tensions in the Fields of operations.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

beagle9 said:


> I like number two, but not sure if Biden is respected enough to negotiate anything with the Russians. Remember he was part of the lie's that continually said that DJT was a Russian puppet, and in light of all the evidence suggesting that the lies were just that "LIES", he still doubled down for political reasons and all for the insecurities he has concerning Trump.
> 
> We have been weakened from within, and we are no longer respected by places like Putin's Russia, and this is all because of the lies and destruction against our president from within, otherwise suggesting that Russia was the bad guy's causing all the trouble in our election process, when in fact it's been proven to be a lie now.
> 
> The world has got to be looking at us as a corrupt nation who will dispose a leader even if that targeted leader had done nothing while in office, otherwise to be disposed over.
> 
> The wave effect that it has caused may have reached tsunami heights. Diplomacy is highly important to get Putin to pause in his actions, but that depends on how the campaign is going within. If he's struggling to achieve his goals, then it's doubtful he will be willing to listen to much while under high-tensions in the Fields of operations.


Funny, Russian state TV, with the blessing of Putin, said Trump was his puppet.

So, if anything, that will be common ground in negotiations with Russia.


----------



## beagle9

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Funny, Russian state TV, with the blessing of Putin, said Trump was his puppet.
> 
> So, if anything, that will be common ground in negotiations with Russia.


Link ? If they said it, then they were basically saying that as a sarcastic get back at the drooling left that wanted so bad for it to be so. Trump loved to antagonize the left in such a way also.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

beagle9 said:


> Link ? If they said it, then they were basically saying that as a sarcastic get back at the drooling left that wanted so bad for it to be so. Trump loved to antagonize the left in such a way also.


Oh, so no link required, as you already have a prescribed fantasy in response all at the ready. 

Moving on...


----------



## beagle9

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Oh, so no link required, as you already have a prescribed fantasy in response all at the ready.
> 
> Moving on...


No link eh ? Until a link is provided, you are right it's just fantasies you are projecting.


----------



## PinktheFloyd88

Why was this moved out of Breaking News? This is the biggest story in the world right now.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

beagle9 said:


> No link eh ? Until a link is provided, you are right it's just fantasies you are projecting.


And after a link is provided, you will just regurgitate your self soothing fantasy. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Oh, so no link required, as you already have a prescribed fantasy in response all at the ready.
> 
> Moving on...



Isn't interesting how you leftists always refuse to back your claims and act like everything you say is absolute.

You still believe in peepee dossier and what was alleged in it. Watch the video.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> Isn't interesting how you leftists always refuse to back your claim


Never, eh? Pretty childish language, onyour part. Apparently you forgot the two links I provided to you to debunk your two lies.

Your entire support for your blame of Biden was two lies that I swiftly debunked with links. 

I believed in the peepee tape? No I didn't.

See what you have? Lies and whining.

Big fail there, my man.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Never, eh? Pretty childish language, onyour part. Apparently you forgot the two links I provided to you to debunk your two lies.
> 
> Your entire support for your blame of Biden was two lies that I swiftly debunked with links.
> 
> I believed in the peepee tape? No I didn't.
> 
> See what you have? Lies and whining.
> 
> Big fail there, my man.



You said "link not required" to back your claim that Trump is a Russian puppet. Putin said himself he has nothing on him. 


This clip should be played on loop until it sinks in what Obama and Biden, along with media cheerleaders have helped cause. This was said during Trump’s impeachment when Schiff’s quest to ensure unimpeded US weapons to “fight Russia” in Ukraine was deemed a noble fight to save democracy, while Obama refusing to approve lethal weapons to do just that.

Both, Obama and Biden let Russians do whatever they want, and unlike Trump they didn't question their annexation of Crimea. The US created this crisis, that was put on hold while Trump was in the office, to just continue when he was out.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> You said "link not required" to back your claim that Trump is a Russian puppet.


Oops, you confused yourself again.

My claim was that Russian state media, with Putin's blessing, called Trump Putin's puppet.

Are you saying this is not true?

Try to focus, please.


----------



## NotfooledbyW

Ame®icano said:


> Authorization to send weapons to Ukraine came out just yesterday.


Bul Crap  Trump was impeached because he tried to extort political dirty tricks out of Zelinski in order to receive military weapons that were already approved for delivery by the Pentagon. It was javelin anti-tank missiles I believe. They were to be stored in The west border of Ukraine and not to be used in the separatist regions on the east. Apparently they’ve kept them and learn to use them and they’re knocking out tanks and trucks by the score right now. So quit lying.


----------



## eagle1462010

Ame®icano said:


> These imbeciles don't understand that not cheering to Biden's failures doesn't mean cheering for Putin.


They understand psy ops tactics.  They always want you to be on the defensive.  Never the Offensive...........So they always attack and blame and accuse you of what they are actually guilty of on the topic.

Don't let them do it..............ATTACK BACK.........Put them on the defensive.  It's very simple.........Given that Russia did this under Obama and now Brandon....


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Oops, you confused yourself again.
> 
> My claim was that Russian state media, with Putins blessing, called Trump Putin's puppet.
> 
> Are you saying this is not true?
> 
> Try to focus, please.



True, that is what you said. It's also true that you believe it.

Here is more truth. Trump challenged Putin on Crimea, while neither Obama or Biden did. Now Biden let him march into Ukraine. Putin was quiet about Ukraine even after Trump approved lethal weapons to them. With Trump out of office, he attacked again, I say with Biden's blessing.

Only thing is, it didn't work as planned.

Putin was given short time to invade, and he is furious, he thought that the whole war would be easy and everything would be done in 1-4 days. Why is this important? Remember what Biden first offer to Zelensky was? On the first day of invasion, instead of military support/weapons, Biden offered airlift from Ukraine. An airlift?

If Zelensky flees, Putin will be happy with Donetsk, Luhansk, and probably would keep what he had taken and install pro-Russian government.

Russians didn’t have a tactical plan. Their soldiers captured in Ukraine thought they were doing drills. The war costs them about $20B a day. There have rockets for 3-4 days at most before they can get them delivered by supplier, they use them sparingly. They lack weapons, the Tula and 2 Rotenberg plants can’t physically fulfil the orders for weapons. Rifles and ammo are the most they can do. The next Russian weapons can be produced in few months, if even that. They have no raw materials. What was previously supplied mainly from Slovenia, Finland and Germany is now is cut off.

If Ukraine manages to hold the Russians off for 10 days, then the Russians will have to enter negotiations. Because they have no money, weapons, or resources. Nevertheless, they are indifferent about the sanctions. Alpha Spec Ops have been near Kiev since the 18th February. The goal was to take Kyiv and install a puppet regime. They were preparing provocations against innocent civilians, women and children, to sow panic. Russia’s whole plan relies on panic, that the civilians and armed forces surrender and Zelensky flees. They expect Kharkiv to surrender first so the other cities would follow suit to avoid bloodshed. The Russians are in shock of the fierce resistance they have encountered.

The Ukrainians must avoid panic. The missile strikes are for intimidation, the Russians fire them at random to “accidentally” hit residential buildings to make the attack look larger than it really is.

Since Zelensky rejected Biden's offer to flee, Biden had no choice but to help Ukraine now, otherwise he wouldn't wait for five days before he signed the release of military help. Biden is trying to save his face in front of the world. Putin played Biden like a fiddle, Biden allowed him to invade Ukraine, just as Obama allowed him to invade Crimea. That was part of the plan. Only thing...  Zelensky also played him as a fiddle, ruined his plans.

Now Putin has no choice but play the "nuke" card, trying to turn Europe / NATO from the further involvement. He's sending in other bigger guns, like thermobaric launchers. He has to save face too,  in front of his own people.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> True, that is what you said. It's also true that you believe it.


It's also a fact.

Do you deny it?

Yes or no.

(If you say "no", you look pretty dumb for ranting over it for 2 pages. If you say "yes", you know I will demonstrate that you are wrong)

Pick your poison.


----------



## Ame®icano

beagle9 said:


> I like number two, but not sure if Biden is respected enough to negotiate anything with the Russians. Remember he was part of the lie's that continually said that DJT was a Russian puppet, and in light of all the evidence suggesting that the lies were just that "LIES", he still doubled down for political reasons and all for the insecurities he has concerning Trump.
> 
> We have been weakened from within, and we are no longer respected by places like Putin's Russia, and this is all because of the lies and destruction against our president from within, otherwise suggesting that Russia was the bad guy's causing all the trouble in our election process, when in fact it's been proven to be a lie now.
> 
> The world has got to be looking at us as a corrupt nation who will dispose a leader even if that targeted leader had done nothing while in office, otherwise to be disposed over.
> 
> The wave effect that it has caused may have reached tsunami heights. Diplomacy is highly important to get Putin to pause in his actions, but that depends on how the campaign is going within. If he's struggling to achieve his goals, then it's doubtful he will be willing to listen to much while under high-tensions in the Fields of operations.



There was a third option, back in 2015, a year after Putin annexed Crimea, the Ukraine was still hot spot because of Donbas and whole eastern part of the country.

Watch this clip, which to me explain that what's happening today in Ukraine is for most part our fault.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> It's also a fact.
> 
> Do you deny it?
> 
> Yes or no.
> 
> (If you say "no", you look pretty dumb for ranting over it for 2 pages. If you say "yes", you know I will demonstrate that you are wrong)
> 
> Pick your poison.



You believe that what Russian media allegedly said is true. Otherwise you wouldn't post it.

Even if they never said it, and I am not saying they did, you would still claim that Trump is Putin's puppet.

Now you're just trying to back of from what you said, by saying... "they said it, not me".

You're leftist, that IS what you leftists do.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> You believe that what Russian media allegedly said is true. Otherwise you wouldn't post it.


Wait, that's pretty dumb. So, if you see a dog, and it has not yet bitten you, you conclude the dog can't bite you? Kind of childish illogic, there.

So, do you deny it? Yes or no will suffice.

Your whataboutism and whining are not going to help you.

Yes or no.


----------



## bravoactual

British Petroleum To Offload Stake In Russian State Owned Roseneft After Russia's " *Act of Agresssion In Ukrainde*".









						BP to offload stake in Rosneft amid Ukraine conflict
					

Norwegian energy giant Equinor also says it will start to divest its joint ventures in Russia.



					www.bbc.com
				




Also in the above link Norway's Soverign Fund Will Freeze and Divest Its $2.83.Billion Investment In The Russian Bank Sberbank and Has takes In Russian Energy Firms Gazprom and Lukoil.

Russia lives off Petro-Dollars.  The Russian Economy is tanking. There is no wide spread support for the war.


----------



## Toro




----------



## Toro




----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Wait, that's pretty dumb. So, if you see a dog, and it has not yet bitten you, you conclude the dog can't bite you? Kind of childish illogic, there.
> 
> So, do you deny it? Yes or no will suffice.
> 
> Your whataboutism and whining are not going to help you.
> 
> Yes or no.



What exactly I have to confirm or deny?

You are not backing your claims, and until you do, you are in no position to demand answers.


----------



## Toro




----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> What exactly I have to confirm or deny?
> 
> You are not backing your claims, and until you do, you are in no position to demand answers.


You are dodging. I get it. I get why. You know that either answer you give isn't going to reflect very well on you, at this point.

Google:

Russia’s State TV Calls Trump Their ‘Agent’​


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Toro said:


>


We were worried that it might take a decade to undo the damage Trump did to NATO and to our Global standing.

Thanks to Putin, it took one day.


----------



## bravoactual

Toro said:


>



Russian Military Losses.









			https://kyivindependent.com/national/amid-fierce-defense-ukraine-fails-russian-blitz-victory-plans/
		


Apparently Ukraine did not get the memo about rolling over and playing dead for Putin.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> You are dodging. I get it. I get why. You know that either answer you give isn't going to reflect very well on you, at this point.
> 
> Google:
> 
> Russia’s State TV Calls Trump Their ‘Agent’​



Not dodging anything, I am just asking from you to back your claim. You still haven't done that.

There are no links on Russian State TV claiming that. Only links with those claims are for leftist US media claiming that Russians said that, and even them are not providing links to the source.

When you provide the link to source of claims, you can demand answers, until then do what you usually do- keep shilling.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> Not dodging anything, I am just asking from you to back your claim. You still haven't done that


Just did it in the post you just quoted.

This is just getting bizarre.


Get it together man.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

bravoactual said:


> Russian Military Losses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://kyivindependent.com/national/amid-fierce-defense-ukraine-fails-russian-blitz-victory-plans/
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently Ukraine did not get the memo about rolling over and playing dead for Putin.


Putin now whining that the US is helping the Ukrainian Navy with surveillance drones.


----------



## Ringo

1999.  But this is completely different! (c)


----------



## Ame®icano

3 mile long Russian convoy heading to Ukraine


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Just did it in the post you just quoted.
> 
> This is just getting bizarre.
> 
> 
> Get it together man.



And why did you omitted from quoting this part or my post?

*"There are no links on Russian State TV claiming that. Only links with those claims are for leftist US media claiming that Russians said that, and even them are not providing links to the source."*


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> And why did you omitted from quoting this part or my post?
> 
> *"There are no links on Russian State TV claiming that. Only links with those claims are for leftist US media claiming that Russians said that, and even them are not providing links to the source."*


Because that is a pathetic lie completely obliterated by the article I mentioned.

That's why.

Can we move on, now? This subtopic has turned you into a bizarre liar with memory issues. Our earlier discussion was much better.


----------



## Ame®icano

If they want to be part of the world, they should be behaving as part of it.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Because that is a pathetic lie completely obliterated by the article I mentioned.
> 
> That's why.
> 
> Can we move on, now? This subtopic has turned you into a bizarre liar with memory issues. Our earlier discussion was much better.



Still no link to the actual source? 

US media saying something that Russian media said without providing a link of what Russian media said is just a propaganda.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> Still no link to the actual source?


No, you would have to google the article title, as I cant copy paste links on mobile.

But you won't. You could have googled this yourself hours ago.

Which is a pretty clear indication that you have no honest interest, and that I am just a foil for your tantrum.

Moving on, like I said...


----------



## Ringo

Ame®icano said:


> 3 mile long Russian convoy heading to Ukraine


Interesting. And where were these aerial photographs all 8 years during which the Western press and politicians claimed that Russian troops were in the Donbas? Or have they finally delivered fresh batteries to spy satellites?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ringo said:


> Interesting. And where were these aerial photographs all 8 years during which the Western press and politicians claimed that Russian troops were in the Donbas? Or have they finally delivered fresh batteries to spy satellites?


Maybe your propaganda masters hid this from you, but this was common knowledge in the West by 2015.









						Hiding in plain sight: Putin's war in Ukraine
					

Drawing upon open source information, Hiding in Plain Sight: Putin's War in Ukraine provides irrefutable evidence of direct Russian military involvement in eastern Ukraine.




					www.atlanticcouncil.org


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano 

here is a clip. Enjoy!


----------



## Ringo

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Maybe your propaganda masters hid this from you, but this was common knowledge in the West by 2015.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hiding in plain sight: Putin's war in Ukraine
> 
> 
> Drawing upon open source information, Hiding in Plain Sight: Putin's War in Ukraine provides irrefutable evidence of direct Russian military involvement in eastern Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.atlanticcouncil.org


Where did this general knowledge come from? From the tabloids?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ringo said:


> Where did this general knowledge come from? From the tabloids?


From satellite images and intelligence reports and journalists in Ukrane.

Now go on, sit there and dream up another self-soothing lie.


----------



## bravoactual

New York Governor Kathy Hochuls Signs Executive Order Preventing New York State From Doing Business With Russian Entities.









						Hochul signs executive order preventing New York State from doing business with Russian entities
					

Governor Kathy Hochul signed an executive order on Sunday preventing New York State from doing business or investing in any Russian entities.




					abc7ny.com


----------



## beagle9

NotfooledbyW said:


> Bul Crap  Trump was impeached because he tried to extort political dirty tricks out of Zelinski in order to receive military weapons that were already approved for delivery by the Pentagon. It was javelin anti-tank missiles I believe. They were to be stored in The west border of Ukraine and not to be used in the separatist regions on the east. Apparently they’ve kept them and learn to use them and they’re knocking out tanks and trucks by the score right now. So quit lying.


Impeached for trying to find out the information in which the American citizens needed to know, and that was whether or not Biden broke the law by requesting a prosecutor in Ukraine be fired at his command or a huge some of money would be withheld from them .. "Well whatta ya know, they fired the SOB"... Sounds to me like they got the wrong guy in the impeachment. Should have been Joe Biden that got fired for his quid pro quo alledgedly committed for his son. Of course it's all Trump's fault eh ??


----------



## bravoactual

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Putin now whining that the US is helping the Ukrainian Navy with surveillance drones.



Oh is Putty Pute crying in his beer?  

The United States and its N.A.T.O. Allies are defending a Freely ELected Democratic Country from Russian Invasion.

Putin is tyrant.  Fuck him.

Ukraine does NOT want to be part of Putin rebuilt Communist Empire.  

Fuck Putin.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Ame®icano
> 
> here is a clip. Enjoy!



Thanks for wasting 30 minutes of my time, where in this video several political commentators are talking about politics in Russia and the US.

One of them saying: "Democrats were warned there was no interference in this elections... and crazy Clintons for 6 years talking about the fact that Russia chose president Trump and Trump is a Russian agent."

What you and other leftists wants us to believe is that Russian state television said "Trump is a Russian agent", when in fact, they were talking about crazy Hillary claims of Trump being Russian agent. Since you didn't watch it, here are the screenshots. The only claims of Trump being Russian agent are from Hillary and Democrats, not from Russians or their state TV, which Durham's investigation clearly confirms.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Wait, that's pretty dumb. So, if you see a dog, and it has not yet bitten you, you conclude the dog can't bite you? Kind of childish illogic, there.
> 
> So, do you deny it? Yes or no will suffice.
> 
> Your whataboutism and whining are not going to help you.
> 
> Yes or no.



Now back to this post...

It is pretty dumb to believe everything you hear on the TV and take it for granted.

As your video shows, they did NOT claim Trump being Russian agent, that was taken out of context and you swallowed it.
Just as our media say, "don't read WikiLeaks, we'll tell you all you need to know about it".
Just as our media say, "you must not do your own research when it comes to science".
Just as our media say, "Ivermectin is a horse paste", or "Trump said to inject bleach."

Taking words out of context and lying is leftist's specialty. Fortunately, it only works on people who are the same as they are.


----------



## Ame®icano

Ringo said:


> Interesting. And where were these aerial photographs all 8 years during which the Western press and politicians claimed that Russian troops were in the Donbas? Or have they finally delivered fresh batteries to spy satellites?



I don't know if Russians had troops in Donbas. I do suspect Russians did the same as Serbs did in Croatia and Bosnia back in 90's. In fact, the scenario is the same.

Croatia became independent from Yugoslavia, Serbs in Croatia declare independency from Croatia, and Serbia gives them weapons.
Bosnia became independent from Yugoslavia, Serbs in Bosnia declare independency from Bosnia, and Serbia gives them weapons.
Ukraine became independent from USSR, Russians in Ukraine declare independency from Ukraine, and Russia gives them weapons.

In case of Crimea, Russians went step further and annexed it to Russia, as they're were planning it with Odessa, Donetsk, Luhansk. It worked first time when Obama gave them blessings while acting like he's on Ukrainian side, to look tough before the elections.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> Thanks for wasting 30 minutes of my time, where in this video several political commentators are talking about politics in Russia and the US.
> 
> One of them saying: "Democrats were warned there was no interference in this elections... and crazy Clintons for 6 years talking about the fact that Russia chose president Trump and Trump is a Russian agent."
> 
> What you and other leftists wants us to believe is that Russian state television said "Trump is a Russian agent", when in fact, they were talking about crazy Hillary claims of Trump being Russian agent. Since you didn't watch it, here are the screenshots. The only claims of Trump being Russian agent are from Hillary and Democrats, not from Russians or their state TV, which Durham's investigation clearly confirms.
> 
> 
> View attachment 608333
> View attachment 608334
> View attachment 608336
> View attachment 608337


Cute whining.

Trump is called Putin's puppet many times on Russian State TV. You are free to go find more examples.

or sit there and whine. I really do not care.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> It is pretty dumb to believe everything you hear on the TV and take it for granted.


An idiotic response.

The claim was that something was being said on Russian State TV.

If I see someone say it on Russian State TV, then it was said on Russian State TV.

An idiotic post and response from you all the way around. 

I will try to tiptoe around your cultism,, I guess.

Moving on...


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> I don't know if Russians had troops in Donbas.




This was reported widely by journalists on the ground, shown by satellite imagery, and was the conclusion of the western intelligence agencies.

but you believe Putin instead....? Weird.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Cute whining.
> 
> Trump is called Putin's puppet many times on Russian State TV. You are free to go find more examples.
> 
> or sit there and whine. I really do not care.



When I asked for proof of that, you provided the link to video that states "Crazy Clinton was repeating for six years that Trump is a Russian agent".

After that, you still claim they said that, and providing no link to the source to back your claim. 

Of course "you don't care", because you can't support your claims, which are basically lies.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> When I asked for proof of that, you provided the link to video that states "Crazy Clinton was repeating for six years that Trump is a Russian agent".


Liar.

I gave you the title of an article to go read that contains examples.

Seriously, you should just shut up about it now. You have been dishonest  and weaselly and you have wasted enough of my time.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> An idiotic response.
> 
> The claim was that something was being said on Russian State TV.
> 
> If I see someone say it on Russian State TV, then it was said on Russian State TV.
> 
> An idiotic post and response from you all the way around.
> 
> I will try to tiptoe around your cultism,, I guess.
> 
> Moving on...



Your claim from the other post:



Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Funny, *Russian state TV, with the blessing of Putin, said Trump was his puppet.*



Video you provided to back your claim clearly disprove that. They did not said what you claim they said.

What was said on Russian State TV is that "crazy Clinton was repeating for 6 years that Trump is a Russian agent." 

Sorry buddy, you don't have ground on this one.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> Video you provided to back your claim clearly disprove that. They did not said what you claim they said.


They said it practically word for word.

Other examples are shown in the link I proved.
You are embarrassing yourself.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> They said it practically word for word.
> 
> Other examples are shown in the link I proved.
> You are embarrassing yourself.



And I screenshot for you what they said, word for word.

No claims made by Russian TV that Trump is a Russian agent. 

In your mind only.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> And I screenshot for you what they said, word for word.
> 
> No claims made by Russian TV that Trump is a Russian agent.
> 
> In your mind only.


Then you missed it. Sorry.

You are free to look at the other examples.

Yes, Russian state TV made a lot of hay out of calling Trump "Putin's puppet".

With Putins blessing, of course.

Dang, that really seems to bother you. Maybe try not hitching your wagons to a person so easily perceived as Putin's puppet, and you won't find yourself trying to deny so many uncomfortable facts.


----------



## beagle9

Ame®icano said:


> Thanks for wasting 30 minutes of my time, where in this video several political commentators are talking about politics in Russia and the US.
> 
> One of them saying: "Democrats were warned there was no interference in this elections... and crazy Clintons for 6 years talking about the fact that Russia chose president Trump and Trump is a Russian agent."
> 
> What you and other leftists wants us to believe is that Russian state television said "Trump is a Russian agent", when in fact, they were talking about crazy Hillary claims of Trump being Russian agent. Since you didn't watch it, here are the screenshots. The only claims of Trump being Russian agent are from Hillary and Democrats, not from Russians or their state TV, which Durham's investigation clearly confirms.
> 
> 
> View attachment 608333
> View attachment 608334
> View attachment 608336
> View attachment 608337


I figured as much... TDS is rampant still, and undoubtedly there is no cure for it yet. 

I've said it before, that the leftist would burn it all to the ground in order to get their way.. It's just that bad. We are about to witness possibly overwhelming odds of leftist through out the world condemning Vladimir Putin and the Russians in hopes to reign him back in so that the globalist can return to their agenda ladened one world order expansionism mode.


----------



## Ame®icano

beagle9 said:


> I figured as much... TDS is rampant still, and undoubtedly there is no cure for it yet.
> 
> I've said it before, that the leftist would burn it all to the ground in order to get their way.. It's just that bad. We are about to witness possibly overwhelming odds of leftist through out the world condemning Vladimir Putin and the Russians in hopes to reign him back in so that the globalist can return to their agenda ladened one world order expansionism mode.



Typical for leftists, never taking any responsibility for their actions. 

How many times media was caught in the lie, and even when they admitted it, and corrected, the damage is done. 

They were told what to believe, what to say, and they're mindlessly accept it as an absolute truth.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Then you missed it. Sorry.
> 
> You are free to look at the other examples.
> 
> Yes, Russian state TV made a lot of hay out of calling Trump "Putin's puppet".
> 
> With Putins blessing, of course.
> 
> Dang, that really seems to bother you. Maybe try not hitching your wagons to a person so easily perceived as Putin's puppet, and you won't find yourself trying to deny so many uncomfortable facts.



In the video you provided, and I watched it whole, I didn't miss the thing. 

What I believe is that media took one snippet from that video, just like I took the screenshot, and presented it to fit their narrative. Instead of checking it out yourself, you took it for granted, because you needed to believe that's the truth, and accepted it as such. Even after I showed you screenshots with translation, you refused to even think of possibility that you were lied to, and that you might be wrong. Even in your reply above you're still talking about Russian TV calling Trump Putin's puppet, without looking at the evidence. Reasonable people doesn't do that. Reasonable people don't thake things for granted. Mindless sheep does... 





Your browser is not able to display this video.


----------



## bravoactual

European Union Will Close It's Airspace To Russian Airlines and Will Millions In Euro's On Buying Weapons For Ukraine.









						EU shuts airspace to Russian airlines, will buy Ukraine arms
					

BRUSSELS (AP) — The European Union agreed Sunday to close its airspace to Russian airlines, spend hundreds of millions of euros on buying weapons for Ukraine and ban some pro-Kremlin media outlets in its latest response to Russia’s invasion, EU officials said.




					apnews.com
				





BRUSSELS (AP) — The European Union agreed Sunday to close its airspace to Russian airlines, spend hundreds of millions of euros on buying weapons for Ukraine and ban some pro-Kremlin media outlets in its latest response to Russia’s invasion, EU officials said.

That and Germany’s announcement earlier in the day that it would almost triple its defense budget this year underscored how Russia’s invasion of Ukraine was rewriting Europe’s post-World War II security and defense policy in ways that were unthinkable only a few weeks ago.

In what he described as “*a defining moment for European history*,” EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell said that the bloc’s 27 foreign ministers had greenlighted the unprecedented support for Ukraine and that those actions would take effect within hours.

“*We have decided to use our capacities to provide lethal arms, lethal assistance, to the Ukrainian army by a value of 450 million (euros) ($502 million) … and 50 more million ($56 million) for non-lethal supplies, fuel, protective equipment*,” Borrell told reporters.


----------



## Ringo

bravoactual said:


> “*We have decided to use our capacities to provide lethal arms, lethal assistance, to the Ukrainian army by a value of 450 million (euros) ($502 million) … and 50 more million ($56 million) for non-lethal supplies, fuel, protective equipment*,” Borrell told reporters.


I wonder why these bastards did not do the same with regard to Donbass, when the ukrainian fascists shelled civilian areas of Donbass with artillery? Don't answer, I know why. Scratch any "progressive democrat" and you will see a fascist. In today's time, this is a pedophile fascist


----------



## Toro

Switzerland is sanctioning Russia.

Fucking Switzerland.


----------



## Litwin




----------



## bravoactual

Switzerland Adopts European Sanctions Against Russia, Freezes Putin's Assests.









						Switzerland adopts EU sanctions against Russia, Putin, freezes assets
					

"Switzerland reaffirms its solidarity with Ukraine and its people," the government wrote in a statement.




					www.newsweek.com
				




Switzerland, known for its neutral stances on global conflicts, has announced on Monday that it will adopt standard European Union sanctions against Russia.

In a statement, the Swiss government openly condemned the Russian invasion and expressed solidarity with Ukraine. It also announced that it will enact the same sanctions announced by the EU against Russia.

"*In view of Russia's continuing military intervention in Ukraine, the Federal Council took the decision on February 28 to adopt the packages of sanctions imposed by the EU on February 23 and 25*," the Swiss government wrote.


----------



## Ame®icano

EU bans Russian media because they're lying.

What about other media that lies?


----------



## computerliker

Rogue AI said:


> True Turkey is a member, but they were never a primary Soviet target. All eyes were on Western Europe all through the Cold War. The only real incident that involved Turkey was US intermediate missiles placed there. They were removed as part of the Cuban Missile Crisis, though not as publicly.
> 
> I don't see NATO allowing Poland nukes, that would invite more problems than it would solve.


At that time, Turkey was neither economically nor militarily capable of resisting the Soviets. Today, if Turkey had been able to integrate into European Policies, Law and Economy, Russia would not have been able to expand militarily so much. There is still hope. For most people in Turkey, especially between the ages of 15-55, things like welfare and quality life come first before communism or religious movements. But for people who are unhappy materially or spiritually, communism or religious ideologies are almost starting to be used as a means of healing.


----------



## PinktheFloyd88

Guys, I am worried about Ukraine. Putin has obviously lost his fucking mind and is shelling civilians and cities at this point. This man is insane.


----------



## Ringo

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> Guys, I am worried about Ukraine. Putin has obviously lost his fucking mind and is shelling civilians and cities at this point. This man is insane.


Listen, softy. You can only *always* be a pacifist and a humanist, and if this pacifism turns on on command and also turns off when it is not profitable,  it is called hypocrisy.


----------



## beagle9

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> Guys, I am worried about Ukraine. Putin has obviously lost his fucking mind and is shelling civilians and cities at this point. This man is insane.


Let me ask this - Would the damage and death be as bad if Zelinksky would have just turned himself in to Putin in hopes to save Ukraine's people and infrastructure ? Is Zelinksky hiding behind human shields, and if so why is Putin after the government of Ukraine like this ? Just questions is all.... If Putin would have thrown Zelinksky in prison, then couldn't the international community work to gain his release over time ? What is actually going on here ?


----------



## eagle1462010

The people who dont want to be a part of Russia would fight either way.  Wouldnt make a difference


----------



## Calypso Jones




----------



## Calypso Jones




----------



## Calypso Jones




----------



## Silver Cat

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> Guys, I am worried about Ukraine. Putin has obviously lost his fucking mind and is shelling civilians and cities at this point. This man is insane.


Actually, he didn't even start a real bombing company, but already in control of 40% of Ukraine. May be, he is going to take only pro-Russian south-eastern regions, and only then start bombing Western Ukraine you know, like Idlib or Vietnam.


----------



## Silver Cat

eagle1462010 said:


> The people who dont want to be a part of Russia would fight either way.  Wouldnt make a difference


The issue is that the people who do want to be a part of Russia, actually have been fighting against Kievan regime for eight years.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Silver Cat said:


> The issue is that the people who do want to be a part of Russia, actually have been fighting against Kievan regime for eight years.


Tough shit. Then should have moved to Russia.

Now they are traitors to be shot in the streets.


----------



## Calypso Jones




----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Calypso Jones said:


> View attachment 610815


Neat!

No go the slob the knob of the mentally ill orange pile of shit who wants to put journalists in jail.

Oh look, another thing your master and Putin have in common.


----------



## Calypso Jones

Oh now that's funny.   Obama and the left spied on reporters.  The left has alphabet networks in its pocket and the media only spouts the leftist line.    Trump never put any jounalists in jail.  But many of them deserve jail and worse for what they've done to this country.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Calypso Jones said:


> Oh now that's funny.   Obama and the left spied on reporters.  The left has alphabet networks in its pocket and the media only spouts the leftist line.    Trump never put any jounalists in jail.  But many of them deserve jail and worse for what they've done to this country.


Your master never put any journalists in jail, because he couldn't.

Now go slob his knob some more. Maybe post another meme, see if you fool anyone.


----------



## Ame®icano

You never let a serious crisis go to waste. Here come the profiteers.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> You never let a serious crisis go to waste. Here come the profiteers.
> 
> View attachment 610887


The clintons don't profit from the Clinton foundation.

Sorry.

Find something  real to complain about


----------



## Who_Me?

Not that I want to climb into the demented mind of Putin, but if he wanted to take Ukraine so badly,  why is he destroying buildings and its infrastructure?  Oh and killing innocent civilians isn't going to win the hearts and minds of the Ukrainian people either.  I think Lindsey Graham just said what everyone was thinking.


----------



## PinktheFloyd88

Calypso Jones said:


> View attachment 610815


This topic is for discussion of the ongoing war in Ukraine. Go troll in another place


----------



## Calypso Jones

exactly what i'm talking about.    I understand that you would rather not have to face the truth....but it is the manly thing to do. be a man.


----------



## badger2

beagle9 said:


> Let me ask this - Would the damage and death be as bad if Zelinksky would have just turned himself in to Putin in hopes to save Ukraine's people and infrastructure ? Is Zelinksky hiding behind human shields, and if so why is Putin after the government of Ukraine like this ? Just questions is all.... If Putin would have thrown Zelinksky in prison, then couldn't the international community work to gain his release over time ? What is actually going on here ?


Z. is a cocaine addict and the Donbass has been doing American 1776 for the last 8 years.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> The clintons don't profit from the Clinton foundation.
> 
> Sorry.
> 
> Find something  real to complain about



The Clinton Foundation is Clinton slush fund. 

Just ask Chelsea how she could afford $14M apartment in New York.


----------



## Silver Cat

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Tough shit. Then should have moved to Russia.
> 
> Now they are traitors to be shot in the streets.


You see, in the Eastern and Southern regions of Ukraine those people are absolute majority. When the Western Ukrainians tried to shot those "Vatniks" (Quilted jackets) in the streets they started to shoot back and ask Russia to help them. Just try to imagine Pro-ChinaRussia coup in Canada, in which the main force is French-speaking aggressive nationalist and militants, who's first action are banning of English language as official, and extrajudical killings of pro-American activists and politicians and asking to join Shanghai Pact. How long would it take the US to invade Canada to protect English speaking and pro-American people and vital interests of the USA?


----------



## Silver Cat




----------



## badger2

Who_Me? said:


> Not that I want to climb into the demented mind of Putin, but if he wanted to take Ukraine so badly,  why is he destroying buildings and its infrastructure?  Oh and killing innocent civilians isn't going to win the hearts and minds of the Ukrainian people either.  I think Lindsey Graham just said what everyone was thinking.





Silver Cat said:


> View attachment 611021


Yes, and we will post another map to superimpose over this one. It is a drug-trafficking map of Ukraine. American automatons and others can squint through the fog to grasp the northern drug route into Kiev is also where Russian tanks are "stalled." Duh


----------



## beagle9

Who_Me? said:


> Not that I want to climb into the demented mind of Putin, but if he wanted to take Ukraine so badly,  why is he destroying buildings and its infrastructure?  Oh and killing innocent civilians isn't going to win the hearts and minds of the Ukrainian people either.  I think Lindsey Graham just said what everyone was thinking.


Didn't start out with the buildings and infrastructure, but it has slowly ramped up as the fall becomes more complicated in getting a surrender from the Ukrainian government. Wars can't be fought without collateral damage of the sorts being seen in this or any war, so I'm wondering with China's saber rattling over Taiwan, if we aren't already in world war three, but just don't realize it quite yet ? The more pressure put on Putin to derail his quest, the more closer to world disorder things become. Putin has the means to get a quick resolve in Ukraine, so one has to wonder why is he holding back ??


----------



## badger2

beagle9 said:


> Didn't start out with the buildings and infrastructure, but it has slowly ramped up as the fall becomes more complicated in getting a surrender from the Ukrainian government. Wars can't be fought without collateral damage of the sorts being seen in this or any war, so I'm wondering with China's saber rattling over Taiwan, if we aren't already in world war three, but just don't realize it quite yet ? The more pressure put on Putin to derail his quest, the more closer to world disorder things become. Putin has the means to get a quick resolve in Ukraine, so one has to wonder why is he holding back ??


As a typical American automaton, you probably think "tanks stuck in the mud" rather than "tanks waiting out cocaine addiction." Duh


----------



## badger2

Most CIA operatives are located at Kiev and Lviv. Here is the traditional drug route map of Ukraine showing the "human shield" argument for Latvia and Lithuania, which is complete bullshit on the part of drug addicted Zelenskiy:

Ukraine Drug Map




__





						The Ukrainian Week
					






					ukrainianweek.com


----------



## badger2

beagle9 said:


> Didn't start out with the buildings and infrastructure, but it has slowly ramped up as the fall becomes more complicated in getting a surrender from the Ukrainian government. Wars can't be fought without collateral damage of the sorts being seen in this or any war, so I'm wondering with China's saber rattling over Taiwan, if we aren't already in world war three, but just don't realize it quite yet ? The more pressure put on Putin to derail his quest, the more closer to world disorder things become. Putin has the means to get a quick resolve in Ukraine, so one has to wonder why is he holding back ??


Yes collateral damage as the Dem nazis watched the baboons busting up American infrastructure. Then POSPOTUS's CIA handlers tell him and his sleep-up to go to Wisconsin to talk about infrastructure.


----------



## beagle9

badger2 said:


> As a typical American automaton, you probably think "tanks stuck in the mud" rather than "tanks waiting out cocaine addiction." Duh


Uhhh what ? Makes sense sometimes.. Thanks.. lol


----------



## beagle9

badger2 said:


> Yes collateral damage as the Dem nazis watched the baboons busting up American infrastructure. Then POSPOTUS's CIA handlers tell him and his sleep-up to go to Wisconsin to talk about infrastructure.


You'll never be relevant being a racist, just so you know. No matter how intellectual you might think of yourself to be


----------



## Ringo




----------



## Toro

Ringo said:


>



на хуй невдаха

What a D-lister


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Who_Me? said:


> Not that I want to climb into the demented mind of Putin, but if he wanted to take Ukraine so badly,  why is he destroying buildings and its infrastructure?  Oh and killing innocent civilians isn't going to win the hearts and minds of the Ukrainian people either.  I think Lindsey Graham just said what everyone was thinking.


Apparently he only cares about controlling the land area. I think we can all agree that he would murder every single Ukrainian to achieve this goal.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> The Clinton Foundation is Clinton slush fund.
> 
> Just ask Chelsea how she could afford $14M apartment in New York.


Nah, bizarre right wing fantasy. Especially bizarre in light of the fact that this bullshit has been debunked several times over.

The Clinton foundation's books are open. They aren't misappropriating funds in secret, unlike the orange pile of shit and his groin spawn.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Nah, bizarre right wing fantasy. Especially bizarre in light of the fact that this bullshit has been debunked several times over.
> 
> The Clinton foundation's books are open. They aren't misappropriating funds in secret, unlike the orange pile of shit and his groin spawn.



Hillary says it's "debunked" so it must be debunked.

Where is the money for Haiti?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> Hillary says it's "debunked" so it must be debunked.


Weak strawman in lieu of anything smarter to say.

You fund yourself clinging to a debunked fantasy. This is a YOU problem. Not my problem.


----------



## Silver Cat

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Apparently he only cares about controlling the land area. I think we can all agree that he would murder every single Ukrainian to achieve this goal.


Actually, the Russians are still very accurate and trying avoid unnecessary losses and destruction (comparing with their usual behavior), they cancelled all loans in occupied zones, decreased price of fuel to Russian level, allow local farmers to sell their production in Russia. 
But, looks like, that they will return to their usual style pretty soon.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Silver Cat said:


> Actually, the Russians are still very accurate and trying avoid unnecessary losses and destruction (comparing with their usual behavior), they cancelled all loans in occupied zones, decreased price of fuel to Russian level, allow local farmers to sell their production in Russia.
> But, looks like, that they will return to their usual style pretty soon.


Go peddle your nauseating and obviously false propaganda to someone dumber. Like the troll sitting next to you.


----------



## Silver Cat

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Go peddle your nauseating and obviously false propaganda to someone dumber. Like the troll sitting next to you.


Just compare Melitopol and Aleppo or Grozny.


----------



## bambu.

Piers Akerman, writing in my Sunday Telegraph today says it true:

_*Vladimir Putin finds little resistance beyond Ukraine borders.*

Ukrainians are paying a cruel price in blood and treasure to the murderous Russian tyrant Vladimir Putin as his missiles destroy their lives and property.
But the Western liberal democracies are also paying a massive price as any illusions that international safeguards against brutality can be effective are destroyed.

*Putin has told French President Emmanuel Macron Russia has no intention of halting the attacks, let alone withdrawing from the captured territory, and his goal is to seize the nation in its entirety to "de Nazify Ukraine to the end".*

His fantasy is to recreate the imperial Russia of the tsars and with his annexation of Donetsk and Luhansk - the so-called breakaway republic's- and his capture of Georgia and Crimea, he is well on his way to fulfilling his dream.

The European Union has so far done little more than offer refuge to a million or so civilians who have fled the Russian bombardment.

Strong words in Brussels don't match high explosives in Kyiv, no matter how strongly former German defence minister, Ursula von der Leyen, now President of the European Commission, codemns Putin's actions.

*Europe has been left vulnerable because of the insane acceptance of the highly dubious claims of fanatical green climate extremists who successfully demanded that reliable coal-powered plants be closed.*

Germany's former leader Angela "Mutti" Merkel, an unreconstructed East German - born socialist, went even further, decommissioning her nation's nuclear power plants. Bowing to green lunacy played into the hands of Russia which supplies the gas essential to power Western Europe.

With their energy in Russia's hands and Ukraine falling (after a probably protracted and terribly bloody siege involving thousands of deaths on both sides), the European nations will accept Russian seizure of most of Ukraine's critical resources so they can continue to have airconditioning and hot showers without resorting to nasty coal power.

US President Joe Biden also gave away the US's strategic fuel advantage when he reversed Donald Trump's domestic energy certainty for foreign oil dependency, playing into Russia's hands._

#####

Well there you go.
*The facts of how it all is, the mess it all is, in one true and brilliant piece of writing.*


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Silver Cat said:


> Just compare Melitopol and Aleppo or Grozny.


Yes, the world is quite aware of the evil turd Putin slaughtering civilians in Syria.


----------



## Ringo

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Yes, the world is quite aware of the evil turd Putin slaughtering civilians in Syria.


Your vision of reality is so crooked, that I have to ask: how do you get into your pants, when you put them on in the morning? How often do you wear them backwards?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ringo said:


> Your vision of reality is so crooked, that I have to ask: how do you get into your pants, when you put them on in the morning? How often do you wear them backwards?


Aww, poor little guy realizes nobody is buying what he is selling.


----------



## Ringo

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Aww, poor little guy realizes nobody is buying what he is selling.


So... it is always ass backwards?


----------



## Ame®icano




----------



## Ame®icano

Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## Ame®icano

Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## Ame®icano

Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## Ame®icano

Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## beagle9

Ame®icano said:


> View attachment 611583


What's this of ?


----------



## beagle9

Ame®icano said:


> View attachment 611588


What vehicle's are those ? Russian or Ukrainian ?


----------



## Ringo

Ukrainians have a plan for "continuity of power" in case Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky is killed (с) the head of the US State Department Blinken.

In general, there is a feeling that the unwinding flywheel of events may soon engulf Zelensky in every sense, including in the physical. He has already actually played his role in fomenting war. Then other people will lead it.


----------



## beagle9

Let me ask this important question - Why didn't the UN blue helmet's, otherwise that are totally neutral in a war zone, and that are there mainly to assist civilian non-combatants, and to monitor illegal acts of war, and attrocities from being committed hopefully by it's presence there, not in theater right now ???????? In the Serbia and Bosnian war they were there doing exactly what I've written here. 

Did Zelenski refuse their entry into the theater early on (did the UN even offer), otherwise did he stop their presence in which many are hoping that such a presence would have curbed the appetite for possible war crime's to be committed while in their presence, otherwise that now the world is accusing Russia of without the UN being on the ground to counter any propaganda that might take place without the blue helmet's being there ???? Where are the neutral bule helmet's in theater on the ground in Ukraine, and why are they not there if they aren't ???????


----------



## Ame®icano

beagle9 said:


> What's this of ?



With "Z" painted on it, I assume those are Ruskies.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

beagle9 said:


> Let me ask this important question - Why didn't the UN blue helmet's, otherwise that are totally neutral in a war zone, and that are there mainly to assist civilian non-combatants, and to monitor illegal acts of war, and attrocities from being committed hopefully by it's presence there, not in theater right now ???????? In the Serbia and Bosnian war they were there doing exactly what I've written here.
> 
> Did Zelenski refuse their entry into the theater early on (did the UN even offer), otherwise did he stop their presence in which many are hoping that such a presence would have curbed the appetite for possible war crime's to be committed while in their presence, otherwise that now the world is accusing Russia of without the UN being on the ground to counter any propaganda that might take place without the blue helmet's being there ???? Where are the neutral bule helmet's in theater on the ground in Ukraine, and why are they not there if they aren't ???????


The Blue Helmets are not there, because Russia is on the UN Security Council.


----------



## Silver Cat

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Yes, the world is quite aware of the evil turd Putin slaughtering civilians in Syria.


Ok. And now compare Syria and Ukraine. There are much less devastation in Ukraine than it was in Syria, Afghanistan or Chechnya. 
The Russians (by their own standarts) didn't even start a serious "police operation", say nothing about a "war". If you want to see how the Russians act in wars - look at Berlin-1945.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Silver Cat said:


> Ok. And now compare Syria and Ukraine. There are much less devastation in Ukraine than it was in Syria,


That's because, in Syria, Putin the murdering  Maniac was able to swoop into an already devastated country and start slaughtering civilians.

In Ukraine, he had to start at square one at their borders. And now the murdering Maniac's military is getting embarrassed on the world stage.

Credit goes to the Ukrainians. Not to the evil, murderous maniac Putin.


----------



## Calypso Jones




----------



## Silver Cat

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> That's because, in Syria, Putin the murdering  Maniac was able to swoop into an already devastated country and start slaughtering civilians.
> 
> In Ukraine, he had to start at square one at their borders. And now the murdering Maniac's military is getting embarrassed on the world stage.
> 
> Credit goes to the Ukrainians. Not to the evil, murderous maniac Putin.


You see, in your picture of the world - the Russians are evil, murderous maniacs. In some Russian pictures of world - the Americans are evil, murderous maniacs. But in most Arabocentric or Pashtocentric pictures of the world there are almost same - recall the Battle of Mosul. But Melitopol doesn't look like Aleppo or Mosul. Why? Because there were no resistance and, therefore - there was no need to destroy the city.


----------



## Ame®icano

The US and European left just spent two weeks arming Ukrainian nationalists.

Does anyone really think the left will care if people call them hypocrites?


----------



## Ringo




----------



## badger2

Ringo said:


>


He mentions "education" though the American automaton is always already compromised about "ceilings." This automaton lives within a system that not only debauches humans values with triple twists of perversity, it is a system that constantly sets, then repels its own limits. That is why the system has an intimate relationship to the schizophrenic process, and why effeminates who manipulate the media, including MI6 and CIA, Nazi-Dem controlled media, can easily sway opinions via indignance and techniques of the theologian.


----------



## Ringo

Israel has launched new bombing attacks on Syria. But don't rush to organize an anti-Israel campaign, it's completely different!


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> US and European left just spent two weeks arming Ukrainian nationalists.


Why do you say dumb shit like this?

Also, I noticed you give the Neo-Nazi more credibility than anybody. How Bizarre.


----------



## eagle1462010

Ringo said:


> Israel has launched new bombing attacks on Syria. But don't rush to organize an anti-Israel campaign, it's completely different!


Hez and Israel exchanging fire is a normal day at the office for them.

It's only been going on FOREVER.

Much longer than the existence of UKRAINE IVAN.............Why did all these countries want away from the old USSR?  Hmm


----------



## badger2

It's one thing to invoke "the old USSR" and another to disregard the CIA-MI6-assisted construction of Ukrainian New Nazis, who include Victoria Nuland, Marco Rubio, Lindsay Graham, Bush, Obama and Clinton and of course, the current POSPOTUS. The FSB is clued up about Ukraine, and average Russian citizens are too:

"Putin pravil'no sdelal', chto udaril pervym. Draka byla neizbezhna!
Putin did the right thing, by hitting first. A fight was inevitable!"
(Vladimir Zolotov)


----------



## eagle1462010

badger2 said:


> It's one thing to invoke "the old USSR" and another to disregard the CIA-MI6-assisted construction of Ukrainian New Nazis, who include Victoria Nuland, Marco Rubio, Lindsay Graham, Bush, Obama and Clinton and of course, the current POSPOTUS. The FSB is clued up about Ukraine, and average Russian citizens are too:
> 
> "Putin pravil'no sdelal', chto udaril pervym. Draka byla neizbezhna!
> Putin did the right thing, by hitting first. A fight was inevitable!"
> (Vladimir Zolotov)


While I don't like the Globalist.........Invoking the USSR is fine and dandy........ Putin wasn't cornered...........no one was bringing Ukraine into NATO..........nor was NATO threatening to attack him.

He has nukes.........And everyone knows it.  

This War is brought to you by PFIZER........who wants the world to forget Covid and the shit they pulled.............and POOF THE TALK OF COVID IS GONE.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Why do you say dumb shit like this?
> 
> Also, I noticed you give the Neo-Nazi more credibility than anybody. How Bizarre.



How am I giving them credibility?

They got it already from US government, who arm them back in 2014.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> How am I giving them credibility?
> 
> They got it already from US government, who arm them back in 2014.
> 
> View attachment 612153​


Not sure what you imagine you are posting there.

But the intent was not to arm Nazis. If we arm Americans, we arm neonazis. We arm Neonazis at Walmart every day.

You haven't denigrated Ukraine or Ukrainians. Nor have you supported Putin's lying narrative. You have only brought your own credibility in to question with the idiotic partisan comment and your false implications that we somehow wanted nazis to rise to power.


----------



## xyz

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Why do you say dumb shit like this?
> 
> Also, I noticed you give the Neo-Nazi more credibility than anybody. How Bizarre.


Not really, that's all they talk about n Russian news, I've seen news reports covering the news in Russia. Most people don't even think there's a real war and their country is involved.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

xyz said:


> Not really, that's all they talk about n Russian news, I've seen news reports covering the news in Russia. Most people don't even think there's a real war and their country is involved.


* he gives the Neo-Nazi more credibility than he gives to other people


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Not sure what you imagine you are posting there.
> 
> But the intent was not to arm Nazis. If we arm Americans, we arm neonazis. We arm Neonazis at Walmart every day.
> 
> You haven't denigrated Ukraine or Ukrainians. Nor have you supported Putin's lying narrative. You have only brought your own credibility in to question with the idiotic partisan comment and your false implications that we somehow wanted nazis to rise to power.



Can you first point where have I mentioned Nazis?

There are no implications from me, they're in your head only. Come back here when your drugs wears off.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> Can you first point where have I mentioned Nazis?


Yep!

The tweet you copypasted.

It's literally right here on this page.

You are one slippery little weasel.


----------



## badger2

eagle1462010 said:


> While I don't like the Globalist.........Invoking the USSR is fine and dandy........ Putin wasn't cornered...........no one was bringing Ukraine into NATO..........nor was NATO threatening to attack him.
> 
> He has nukes.........And everyone knows it.
> 
> This War is brought to you by PFIZER........who wants the world to forget Covid and the shit they pulled.............and POOF THE TALK OF COVID IS GONE.


Some think that Putin is correct about nazis in Ukraine. The claim of biological weapons laboratories implicates NATO and the Pentagon, as we have already posted to another thread. Putin is destroying Ukrainian military infrastructure due to these nazis, who are not Hitlerist but products of CIA-MI6 thinktanks. Nuland was trained in a camp like Avoz Battalion. Soros is also implicated. Today, Putin told Russian women that military servicemen would not be in combat missions, but the chikenshit Western media hasn't the stones to report such things.


----------



## badger2

Well yes, restoring USSR territory. But certainly not with an old soviet plan. Putin worked in eastern Germany and he sure wants to compete with CIA-MI6 neo-nazis now coming off the production lines of Western "modernity" In Ukraine.


----------



## badger2

Azov Battalion


----------



## xyz

badger2 said:


> Some think that Putin is correct about nazis in Ukraine. The claim of biological weapons laboratories implicates NATO and the Pentagon, as we have already posted to another thread. Putin is destroying Ukrainian military infrastructure due to these nazis, who are not Hitlerist but products of CIA-MI6 thinktanks. Nuland was trained in a camp like Avoz Battalion. Soros is also implicated. Today, Putin told Russian women that military servicemen would not be in combat missions, but the chikenshit Western media hasn't the stones to report such things.


You sound like GRU.


----------



## Ringo

eagle1462010 said:


> .Why did all these countries want away from the old USSR?  Hmm


And I'm also surprised why the nazi bastards aspired to the USA, and not to the USSR... Hmmm...


----------



## beagle9

Ringo said:


> And I'm also surprised why the nazi bastards aspired to the USA, and not to the USSR... Hmmm...


Huh ? The United States and the USSR both got their fair share of German scientist, engineers, and other, otherwise in order to find out how Germany got so powerful, and so strategic to do what they did in the war. Neither worshipped the Nazi's, but both weren't opposed to exploring the potential benefit's of the knowledge they possessed.


----------



## eagle1462010

Ringo said:


> And I'm also surprised why the nazi bastards aspired to the USA, and not to the USSR... Hmmm...


Selective memmory.  The USSR were total assholes.  When they collapsed a shout of Freedom was heard all over the world.

Tear down these walls.


----------



## eagle1462010

badger2 said:


> Some think that Putin is correct about nazis in Ukraine. The claim of biological weapons laboratories implicates NATO and the Pentagon, as we have already posted to another thread. Putin is destroying Ukrainian military infrastructure due to these nazis, who are not Hitlerist but products of CIA-MI6 thinktanks. Nuland was trained in a camp like Avoz Battalion. Soros is also implicated. Today, Putin told Russian women that military servicemen would not be in combat missions, but the chikenshit Western media hasn't the stones to report such things.


The news is tainted everywhere.  Both sides.  Cant trust any of them.  

So you go old school who was Putin.  He's old school KGB from the USSR.  They were Tyrannical mfrs.  

He could have moved into the break away regions.  He didnt.  He launched a full War which intends to take all of Ukraine.  Mr. KGB wants a return to Glory of the USSR.

One more point.  That royally pissed me off.  A youtube video that was later Banned.  He openly threatened to use nukes on Europe and all of NATO.  That is not RATIONAL


----------



## Ringo

beagle9 said:


> Huh ? The United States and the USSR both got their fair share of German scientist,


Name some of these german scientists used in USSR? I mean in the rank of war criminals, like von Braun and Reinhard Gehlen.


----------



## eagle1462010

Ringo said:


> Name some of these german scientists used in USSR? I mean in the rank of war criminals, like von Braun and Reinhard Gehlen.


Stalin slaughtered his own people to gain power.  Built a wall to keep people in.  Fucked over Poland with no vasoline.

NATO was created for his sorry ass.  And it is against you if you want the old USSR back.

Thats why you buy politicians off like Biden and Clinton


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Yep!
> 
> The tweet you copypasted.
> 
> It's literally right here on this page.
> 
> You are one slippery little weasel.



You lying shmuck, I don't control what someone else says in the tweet.

Again... point where I mentioned them, and giving them credibility.


----------



## Ame®icano

Your browser is not able to display this video.


----------



## badger2

beagle9 said:


> Huh ? The United States and the USSR both got their fair share of German scientist, engineers, and other, otherwise in order to find out how Germany got so powerful, and so strategic to do what they did in the war. Neither worshipped the Nazi's, but both weren't opposed to exploring the potential benefit's of the knowledge they possessed.


The Swedish swastika migrated to Ukraine. The recent Russian article on Ukraine biological weapons labs links the residue of Operation Paperclip. On another thread, we will be scrutinizing CCHF virus of Old Germany because this is tick-borne as it is in Russian-controlled Crimea.

2020 Oct CCHF Mutations / Atlanta CDC / Berlin, Germany








						A single mutation in Crimean-Congo hemorrhagic fever virus discovered in ticks impairs infectivity in human cells - PubMed
					

Crimean-Congo hemorrhagic fever (CCHF) is the most widely distributed tick-borne viral infection in the world. Strikingly, reported mortality rates for CCHF are extremely variable, ranging from 5% to 80% (Whitehouse, 2004). CCHF virus (CCHFV, <i>Nairoviridae</i>) exhibits extensive genomic...




					pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


----------



## badger2

One Chinese CDC author of the above Atlanta-Berlin article, Hua, B. also published in the year of the drought in the Crimea, 2018, which would affect the vector ticks there:

2018 Hua B. / CCHF / Thrombocytopenia








						Chinese guidelines for treatment of adult primary immune thrombocytopenia - PubMed
					

Primary immune thrombocytopenia (ITP) is a bleeding disorder commonly encountered in clinical practice. The International Working Group (IWG) on ITP has published several landmark papers on terminology, definitions, outcome criteria, bleeding assessment, diagnosis, and management of ITP. The...




					pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
				



'....Third Military Medical University, Chongqing....Fourth Military Medical University, Zi'an....Kunming Medical University, Yunnan.'


----------



## Ringo




----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> You lying shmuck, I don't control what someone else says in the tweet.


No shit dumbass. You control whether or not you copypaste in and then make a point based on it.

Fucking duuuuuhhhh


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

eagle1462010 said:


> Selective memmory.  The USSR were total assholes.  When they collapsed a shout of Freedom was heard all over the world.
> 
> Tear down these walls.


That's right. The entire world celebrated what was one of the happiest events of the 20th century.

Putin, on the other hand, calls it a tragic event.


----------



## beagle9

eagle1462010 said:


> Selective memmory.  The USSR were total assholes.  When they collapsed a shout of Freedom was heard all over the world.
> 
> Tear down these walls.


They were definitely old school serious bully's who ruled with an iron fist. When we talked them into tearing down that wall, I believe we had their ear back then, but just like everything after time goes by, they might be experiencing a little buyers remorse after what has happened here in our own country.


----------



## Ame®icano

Your browser is not able to display this video.


----------



## beagle9

Ame®icano said:


> View attachment 614314


Those Javelins are pure hell on convoy's, but I bet the air strike that was probably called in as a response was probably seriously unimaginable. Even though Ukraine soldier's are fighting gallantly and heroically, the overwhelming odds are against them. Now this Zelinksky makes me wonder, otherwise if he figured that he could play on the world sympathy's in order to drag NATO into the conflict and/or war ??? He would do this maybe in order that he can say to his sworn enemy Putin, "nowwwwww you've done it", so we are going to destroy you once and for all if out in the east, and out in the west of Ukraine if you come here ? 

But who truly is right in it all, because after the dealings that went on between our heads of state and the Ukraine back in the day, who knows really ??


----------



## Ame®icano




----------



## beagle9

Ame®icano said:


>


Looks like the Syrian conflict except this is in Ukraine. WOW. The Syrian battlefield landscapes we're devastating to say the least, and tragic to look at afterwards.

Peace not war, and it's just sad what is going on today in the world. Sad..


----------



## bambu.

Ukraine should've surrendered the day Russian military first crossed the border.
But then the Russian rape hordes would've struck.
Tough living in Ukraine...Russia f's you over one way or the other.

Ukraine should never have trusted anyone and disarmed from its nukes.


----------



## beagle9

bambu. said:


> Ukraine should've surrendered the day Russian military first crossed the border.
> But then the Russian rape hordes would've struck.
> Tough living in Ukraine...Russia f's you over one way or the other.
> 
> Ukraine should never have trusted anyone and disarmed from its nukes.


Not Ukraine, but maybe Ukraine leadership if that was who Russia had an issue with. The international community could have worked to gain their release from Russia, but now we have the carnage, destruction, and death that war brings, and all because Ukraine's leadership wouldn't step down until things could be worked out peacefully.

Not for coward surrender, but to spare my country of certain anialation, I would have left the country if I was the one Putin had an issue with.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

beagle9 said:


> Not Ukraine, but maybe Ukraine leadership if that was who Russia had an issue with.


But the people chose the leadership. Remove Zelensky, and they will elect another pro western president, just like him and the one before him.

So Russia has an issue with the population of Ukraine. A big one. Russia will be the occupiers, not the liberators.


----------



## beagle9

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> But the people chose the leadership. Remove Zelensky, and they will elect another pro western president, just like him and the one before him.
> 
> So Russia has an issue with the population of Ukraine. A big one. Russia will be the occupiers, not the liberators.


Zelensky said it himself, that Putin was after him, so there's that..


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

beagle9 said:


> Zelensky said it himself, that Putin was after him, so there's that..


Well yes, of course. Surely you don't think that means the parliament remains and Ukraine elects a new president, right?

He has demonized Zelensky. He has half of Russia believing he is a Jew Nazi. No doubt he has the red square parade already planned for after Zelensky is killed.

But the real problem is the people of Ukraine, who have shown they want to be part of the West. So democracy will not be allowed, as long as Putin is there.


----------



## Ame®icano




----------



## Ame®icano

Does anyone remembers Macron going to Putin in attempt to prevent war?

As it turns out, he wasn't there only for that... 


According to a Disclose investigation, France discreetly equipped the Russian army between 2014 and 2020, despite the European embargo. This equipment which has contributed to modernizing the Russian land & air forces could've been used in Ukraine.

They exports mainly thermal cameras intended to equip more than 1,000 Russian tanks, as well as navigation systems and infrared detectors for fighter planes and combat helicopters of the Russian air force.


----------



## Ame®icano




----------



## badger2

Azov's problem is that the FSB has kept up with CIA-MI6-forged neo-nazis in Ukraine and the U.S (Nuland, Rubio, etc.). FSB's plan is nostalgia coupled with modernity, not a return to the USSR. After the denazification, this hybrid will begin to be installed in what has been an illegitimate state since 2014.


----------



## Ame®icano

Ruskies are saying they're trying to minimize civilian casualties. 

Does THIS looks like they do? 

Mariupol





Your browser is not able to display this video.


----------



## Toro




----------



## Silver Cat

Ame®icano said:


> Ruskies are saying they're trying to minimize civilian casualties.
> 
> Does THIS looks like they do?
> 
> Mariupol
> 
> View attachment 615550


Actually, yes. When they are not trying - we see something like Berlin-1945.


----------



## Ame®icano

Surrendering civilians killed.


----------



## beagle9

Ame®icano said:


> Ruskies are saying they're trying to minimize civilian casualties.
> 
> Does THIS looks like they do?
> 
> Mariupol
> 
> View attachment 615550


As long as it was broadcasted early on by Zelensky that the citizen's we're going to fight to protect their country, and that every man from age 18 to 60 were to be conscripted into the army (not allowed to leave), but were to stay and fight, and gun's were being distributed out to the citizen's to fight with, I ask did this not telegraph to Russian forces that the battlefield would be broadened because of such information freely telegraphed on the free radio and video airwaves ??????


----------



## Ame®icano

Your browser is not able to display this video.


----------



## beagle9

Ame®icano said:


> View attachment 616490


Reminds me of the video's we were getting back here from Iraq when ground target's were being systematically destroyed by air power. Not sure what the target was here, can you tell us because it was hard for me to see it. I think I saw people moving at the location in the middle of that road. Most of our video was done or viewed in heat signature fashion from the battlefield's in Iraq or Syria.

Oh that was a tank dredging through the snow covered road. I hit the full screen and could see better.


----------



## Ame®icano




----------



## beagle9

Ame®icano said:


> View attachment 616490


Reminds me of the video's we were getting back here from Iraq when ground target's were being systematically destroyed by air power. Not sure what the target was here, can you tell us because it was hard for me to see it. I think I saw people moving at the location in the middle of that road. Most of our video was done or viewed in heat signature fashion from the battlefield' in Iraq or Syria.


Ame®icano said:


>


Air power is tough to deal with on a battlefield of any kind. Especially in urban warfare if helicopters are involved. Air to ground missiles is the only counter to it.

Was that Russian or Ukrainian on the ground being attacked ??


----------



## Ame®icano

beagle9 said:


> Was that Russian or Ukrainian on the ground being attacked ??


Russian. "Z"

You can go full screen, pretty good video.


----------



## beagle9

Ame®icano said:


> Russian. "Z"
> 
> You can go full screen, pretty good video.


Yep, I see the Z now... Thanks


----------



## Ame®icano

Your browser is not able to display this video.




*LINK*


----------



## Ame®icano

Destroyed vehicles around Kherson





Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## AlexanderPK

Ame®icano said:


> Destroyed vehicles around Kherson
> 
> View attachment 617746


They'll say these are Russian. Don't you know about that?


----------



## Ame®icano

Your browser is not able to display this video.


----------



## AlexanderPK

Ame®icano said:


> View attachment 619126


Ukrainians too. Don't underestimate their ability to fight, even little girls are shooting Russians after school and when their homework is done. Didn't you know that?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

AlexanderPK said:


> Ukrainians too. Don't underestimate their ability to fight, even little girls are shooting Russians after school and when their homework is done. Didn't you know that?


The only little girls I see are the Russian soldiers crying for their mommies on video.


----------



## AlexanderPK

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> The only little girls I see are the Russian soldiers crying for their mommies on video.


There was another video about the Snake Island and the 13 undead soldiers. I had a good laugh too.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

AlexanderPK said:


> There was another video about the Snake Island and the 13 undead soldiers. I had a good laugh too.


Oh, so the Russians soldiers are actually fighting soldiers, too? I thought they were just killing civilians and stealing food. Can't rape Ukrainian girls on an empty stomach, right?


----------



## AlexanderPK

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Oh, so the Russians soldiers are actually fighting soldiers, too? I thought they were just killing civilians and stealing food. Can't rape Ukrainian girls on an empty stomach, right?


I just wonder, how much shit can an American hold in his head? You are supermen! Half of you at least.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

AlexanderPK said:


> I just wonder, how much shit can an American hold in his head? You are supermen! Half of you at least.


So, when the Russin qar criminals target civilians, do you think they get off on it? Or do you think their commanders lie to them about what they are targeting?


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> So, when the Russin qar criminals target civilians, do you think they get off on it? Or do you think their commanders lie to them about what they are targeting?



It would only be fair to mention that both sides are doing it. 

And it didn't started few weeks ago, it started in 2014.


----------



## AlexanderPK

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> So, when the Russin qar criminals target civilians, do you think they get off on it? Or do you think their commanders lie to them about what they are targeting?


*They don't, for crying out loud.* They target criminals that you for some unworldly reason defend now and been defending since that stupid maidan. Why, for the hundred's time, didn't you pay attention when those criminals killed these civilians and thousands more?




Putin's been patient for eight years, now he's run out of it, it's a payback time called *denazification*.


----------



## Ame®icano

AlexanderPK said:


> Ukrainians too. Don't underestimate their ability to fight, even little girls are shooting Russians after school and when their homework is done. Didn't you know that?



Video I posted clearly shows targeting civilian building. Ukrainians were hiding BM-21 Grad rocket launchers under the building. 

So, who is to blame, or who has higher ground here?


----------



## AlexanderPK

Ame®icano said:


> Video I posted clearly shows targeting civilian building. Ukrainians were hiding BM-21 Grad rocket launchers under the building.
> 
> So, who is to blame, or who has higher ground here?


A civilian turns combatant the moment he takes a Grad rocket launcher in his hand, you know that?
I didn't see no Grad there though. You think a lonely Launcher is worth a Caliber or Kinzhal rocket? It must have been some military complex full of military shit that needed some termination.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

AlexanderPK said:


> *They don't, for crying out loud.*


Shameless lie, igor.


----------



## AlexanderPK

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Shameless lie, igor.


You didn't answer the question, humanity advocate.


----------



## Ame®icano

AlexanderPK said:


> A civilian turns combatant the moment he takes a Grad rocket launcher in his hand, you know that?
> I didn't see no Grad there though. You think a lonely Launcher is worth a Caliber or Kinzhal rocket? It must have been some military complex full of military shit that needed some termination.



I don't think it was lonely launcher.


----------



## AlexanderPK

Ame®icano said:


> I don't think it was lonely launcher.
> 
> View attachment 619216


I can't get it, pal. What's your stance on the matter? Are you pro or con regarding Bandera & Co?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

AlexanderPK said:


> You didn't answer the question, humanity advocate.


Because your questions means as much to me as your regurgitated lies: less than nothing.


----------



## Ame®icano

AlexanderPK said:


> I can't get it, pal. What's your stance on the matter? Are you pro or con regarding Bandera & Co?



I don't see how anyone can be on side of people that collaborated with Nazis. However, I do understand why they did it, based on what Soviet orcs, or Stalin to be precise, did to Ukrainians.

Ukraine saw the chance to get from under Russian boot, and they went for it. Wherever there is turmoil, all kind of scum pops up. The most ironic is, that Ukraine could've become independent without them, and I guess that is their way to piss off Russians in most efficient way. At the time, they were useful idiots, that have been taken for a ride and used by the neocons who actually masterminded the Maidan. Now they are canon fodder to Zelensky.

Just like the dissident right in the West has been used and ensnared by Dugin, Ukranian nationalists have been used by western Trotskyite globohomo. Both sides use neo-Nazis as pawns. Hell even Muslim Chechens are fighting each other in Ukraine right now. Its an utter shit sandwich. Both sides are faggots. Rainbow Trotsky West vs Rainbow Stalin East. Its all a power struggle between globalist goblins. Putin is just one faction of rats and the West is another. Putin just wants to be slightly less faggot and pozzed about committing genocide, but that's really the only difference. Both sides are bad, and I can't side with either one.


----------



## AlexanderPK

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Because your questions means as much to me as your regurgitated lies: less than nothing.


I like you as much.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

AlexanderPK said:


> I like you as much.


The way you like slaughter of civilians? Neat.


----------



## Ame®icano

Ame®icano said:


> I don't think it was lonely launcher.
> 
> View attachment 619216



Here is the better video...





Your browser is not able to display this video.


----------



## Ame®icano

What a shitty way to go...





Your browser is not able to display this video.


----------



## Ame®icano

According to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, during the special operation in Ukraine, the Russian Armed Forces lost *9861* people killed, *16153* people were injured.

Use Google translate with following link 

*The Ministry of Defense reported that Russian troops are completing the defeat of the nationalist battalion "Donbass"*


----------



## AlexanderPK

Ame®icano said:


> Here is the better video...
> 
> View attachment 619240


_"So, who is to blame, or who has higher ground here?"_
I don't see what your anguish is about. A bunch of launchers made the supermarket a legitimate target, to spare civilians the strike was delivered at night. You showed it yourself that what the launchers were throwing around weren't exactly firecrackers.


----------



## Ame®icano

AlexanderPK said:


> _"So, who is to blame, or who has higher ground here?"_
> I don't see what your anguish is about. A bunch of launchers made the supermarket a legitimate target, to spare civilians the strike was delivered at night. You showed it yourself that what the launchers were throwing around weren't exactly firecrackers.



There is no anguish from me.

Every western media said that Russians bombed the shopping center. 
How could they! 
Not single said Ukrainians were using it to hide rocked launchers. 

Without knowing whole truth, In the eyes of the West, Russians are bad guys here. 
Ukrainians can't possibly be bad guys for hiding military equipment in civilian area. 

Some things you simply don't do. Russians are bad guys, so are Ukrainians.

I would hit them too.


----------



## Ame®icano




----------



## Ame®icano

Mariupol





Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> Every western media said that Russians bombed the shopping center.
> How could they!
> Not single said Ukrainians were using it to hide rocked launchers.
> 
> Without knowing whole truth, In the eyes of the West, Russians are bad guys here.


Holy shit man, where are your ethics and morality?

One country is invading the other and basically saying we will slaughter civilians until you surrender your country and give it to us. 

You need to take a break and re-evaluate your morals and ethics.

yes, Russia is the bad guy.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Holy shit man, where are your ethics and morality?
> 
> One country is invading the other and basically saying we will slaughter civilians until you surrender your country and give it to us.
> 
> You need to take a break and re-evaluate your morals and ethics.
> 
> yes, Russia is the bad guy.



So is Ukraine. I don't condone what Russians are doing, since Ukrainians are no better. 

I don't take lessons of ethics and morality from leftists, and my ethics and morality are just fine. Where were your ethics and morality when Ukraine was doing the same thing to Russians in Donbas?

Let me remind you... You are cheering for these guys!


----------



## Ame®icano

This is funny...

Russian court labels Facebook as extremist organization and has restricted Facebook for sharing content in Russia.
Facebook immediately blasted this decision for restricting access to valuable information for millions of people, and pledge to do everything to restore their service.

Interesting, Facebook is upset because somebody label them as "extremist" for spreading misinformation, and their ability to post is restricted. They seem to dislike the taste of their own medicine. Oh, irony.

Russia Has Banned Facebook And Instagram After Labeling Meta's Activities “Extremist"​


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> So is Ukraine. I don't condone what Russians are doing, since Ukrainians are no better.


They are not invading another country and slaughtering civilians.

So yes, they are much, much better.

You need to turn off the white wing noise machine, it has turned your morality to shit.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> They are not invading another country and slaughtering civilians.
> 
> So yes, they are much, much better.
> 
> You need to turn off the white wing noise machine, it has turned your morality to shit.



True, they're not invading right now, but they were slaughtering civilians in Donbas since 2014. That doesn't count, right?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> True, they're not invading right now, but they were slaughtering civilians in Donbas since 2014. That doesn't count, right?


Sorry, no. Your lies and exaggerations never count. But even if a nugget of truth, you forgot that was after Russia invaded those areas.
Which are in Ukraine.

Give it up dude.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Sorry, no. Your lies and exaggerations never count. But even if a nugget of truth, you forgot that was after Russia invaded those areas.
> Which are in Ukraine.
> 
> Give it up dude.



My lies? Here again is little collage... is media telling the truth?



 

Also, Russia did not invades Donbas before this war. They did armed Russian separatists to protect themselves from Ukrainian nationalists. Learn the difference.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ame®icano said:


> Also, Russia did not invades Donbas before this war.


Liar.


----------



## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Liar.



You have proof that they did invade Donbas? Post it. Until then... seethe.

Or you're just too dumb to know the difference in between Donbas and Crimea?


----------



## Ame®icano

Mariupol... This is how a "liberated" city looks like.





Your browser is not able to display this video.


----------



## Ame®icano

Russian Navy smoking





Your browser is not able to display this video.


----------



## bendog

Trying to say Putin did not stoke the separatist fires in Donbass is just ... intellectually dishonest.  There are not "good people" on both sides.  There are bad people who hate each other for idiotic reasons going back to the czars on both sides, and their are innocent people caught between.

But my question is ... *where does Putin go now*?  His ground forces are done, and eventually Nato will give Ukraine enough air defense to clear the skies over Ukraine.   Can he politically say "well, all I wanted was donbass and a land route from Russia to Crimea," and call it a win ... and sue for a cease fire?  I'd think that would be the smart play, and honestly Nato would have reasons to agree. 

We may be seeing food riots world wide, and apparantly this time the US farmers can't feed the world because we don't produce fertilizer?  WTF.   We could see worldwide famines.    Unless oil goes down to $90 the coming recession is going possibly look like stagflation.  Nato could do what it should have done in 2014 and declare Ukraine a "protectorate" and put enough military to kill anything that comes from Donbass westward.  I don't think the biggest Russia haters would coddle the Ukraine neo-nazis still fighting a cold war.  And we could force Putin out of Odessa, and leave him Ukraine and "a road to Moscow" that no one in their right mind wants to travel.

But would Putin agree to that being his "legacy?"  Could he even survive doing it?  In five years his energy market in Europe will be .... nyet.  Nato has no reason to remove embargos of technology or "parts."  All Putin ever had to bargain with was ... carbon.  Russia can't make anything because it is a totalitarian state with closed markets.  seeya to his dreams of remaking the Tsarist Empire.  the Russian standard of living was propped up by oil.  His markets of 2030 may be China and India.  Or will Putin go down to Sarin and theatre Nukes?

And ultimately Ukraine has to agree to a cease fire.  The russian citizens have shown they have no desire to actually die for Putin's dream.  Ironically, the Donbass separatists may need Nato to save their lives.  The Ukrainians are ready to kill every last one after seeing their children and homes destroyed.


----------



## Toro

Ame®icano said:


> My lies? Here again is little collage... is media telling the truth?
> 
> View attachment 620148
> 
> Also, Russia did not invades Donbas before this war. They did armed Russian separatists to protect themselves from Ukrainian nationalists. Learn the difference.



It wasn’t a full blown invasion into the Donbas, but Russian troops where there and created the war.


----------



## Toro

Russia also relied heavily on these guys in the Donbas. 









						Wagner Group - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org
				




Trump killed 400 of them when he bombed Russian positions in Syria.


----------



## Ame®icano

Toro said:


> It wasn’t a full blown invasion into the Donbas, but Russian troops where there and created the war.



Isn't that what I said? There was no invasion.

And officially, there were no Russian troops in Donbas. Putin pull the same trick in Donbas as Milosevic did in Croatia. Arm them, and send volunteers with excuse of protecting minorities from neo-Nazis. Just as Croatia, Ukraine have tried to disarm separatists and that escalated to full blown war. At the end, few years later Croatia won, and separatists fled. Unlike Serbs in Croatia who were backed by Serbia who has been bitchslapped by the West, Donbas separatists have much stronger big brother who has nukes.


----------



## Ringo




----------



## beagle9

Ame®icano said:


> View attachment 619126


Was that the hypersonic ?


----------



## beagle9

Ame®icano said:


> I don't think it was lonely launcher.
> 
> View attachment 619216


What's that parked underneath those stairs ?


----------



## AZrailwhale

Silver Cat said:


> Do you remember aggression of NATO countries against Serbia in 1999?


You mean when the UN stepped in to stop the Serb genocide of the Muslims?


----------



## beagle9

Ame®icano said:


> Mariupol
> 
> View attachment 619721


Is Zelinksky this important of a figure that an entire country is to be destroyed because of him ? Why does Putin hate him so bad ??


----------



## AZrailwhale

EvilCat Breath said:


> Kennedy realized his mistake and grew a pair.  Fuck Biden can't be bothered to get out of bed.


Kennedy didn’t show weakness.  The CIA and the Exiles had convinced Ike that the Cuban people would rise up to support the invasion.  Kennedy wisely decided to withhold active US support pending the reaction of the Cuban people.  Well, they didn’t rise up against Castro, so US forces didn’t directly support the exile’s invasion.


----------



## AZrailwhale

beagle9 said:


> What's that parked underneath those stairs ?


Looks like trucks to me.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Toro great news tonight for Ukranians. If it is not disinformation. Russians hoping the Ukrainians relax and stop killing them.. then blitz...? Seems a stretch.

*Lviv, Ukraine (CNN)A top Russian general gave some of the most detailed public remarks to date on Russia's military strategy in Ukraine, claiming on Friday that the "first stage" of Russia's military plan is now complete, with their primary focus now centered on eastern Ukraine.*



			https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/25/europe/russian-general-calls-encirclement-of-ukrainian-cities-a-deliberate-plan/index.html
		


Paraphrased:

"Oh, we never meant to take Kyiv or any major cities. We merely wanted to liberate Donbas. "

If not misdirection, that's the beginning of the end of sieges of a few cities.


----------



## Silver Cat

AZrailwhale said:


> You mean when the UN stepped in to stop the Serb genocide of the Muslims?


No. I mean Kosovo War - unilateral NATO aggression against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. The Russians consider this conflict as the starting point for Cold War 2.0 and this is why they decided to elect Putin and join anti-American camp.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Silver Cat said:


> No. I mean Kosovo War - unilateral NATO aggression against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.


Or, not letting Kosovo be slaughtered.


----------



## Silver Cat

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Toro great news tonight for Ukranians. If it is not disinformation. Russians hoping the Ukrainians relax and stop killing them.. then blitz...? Seems a stretch.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/25/europe/russian-general-calls-encirclement-of-ukrainian-cities-a-deliberate-plan/index.html
> 
> 
> 
> Paraphrased:
> 
> "Oh, we never meant to take Kyiv or any major cities. We merely wanted to liberate Donbas. "
> 
> If not misdirection, that's the beginning of the end of sieges of a few cities.


And at the same time Russian war photographers make pictures of Kievan statue of Rodina-Mother and comment that they are coming to liberate her from Nazies.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Silver Cat said:


> And at the same time Russian war photographers make pictures of Kievan statue of Rodina-Mother and comment that they are coming to liberate her from Nazies.
> View attachment 621326


Yes, very touching. So, what's next? Just peace, right?


----------



## beagle9

AZrailwhale said:


> Looks like trucks to me.


Me too..


----------



## Silver Cat

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Or, not letting Kosovo be slaughtered.


Yes, of course, there were pretty good reasons to invade (almost same that the Russians use to excuse their own invasion in Ukraine), but it doesn't change the facts, that it was committed without permission of SC UN, and one of it consequence was changed course of the Russian policy.


----------



## Silver Cat

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Yes, very touching. So, what's next? Just peace, right?


As they said earlier - just peace after de-Nazification, de-militarization of Ukraine, recognition of Russian Crimea, recognition independence of Donbass Republics, and, according the recent statements of Russian MFA - end of Ukrainian independence. 
It's for Ukraine. But conflict in Ukraine is just a part of the European Security Crisis.


----------



## Ame®icano

beagle9 said:


> Was that the hypersonic ?



I don't know. Could've been smart bomb.



beagle9 said:


> What's that parked underneath those stairs ?



If you watched other video, those launchers would fire and then run back to this building to hide and reload. That's how they track them down.



beagle9 said:


> Is Zelinksky this important of a figure that an entire country is to be destroyed because of him ? Why does Putin hate him so bad ??



To a globohomo, he is. I believe he really cares about his country, but he's mistaken it he think that West cares about Ukraine or him at all. He's rather tool for the West to get them what they want, and they couldn't care less if Ukraine is completely destroyed and half of the population displaced elsewhere. Imagine money being poured in Ukraine to rebuild, imagine how much money is to be made, and launder when all this is done. Some day Ukraine will have to pay back those investments, and they won't be dictating the terms. At first sign of not complying with demand from the West, Zelensky will be thrown under the bus.


----------



## Ringo

beagle9 said:


> What's that parked underneath those stairs ?


These are military trucks. I saw a video showing trucks with missile systems entering and leaving this building. Do you think the russians have nowhere else to put missiles, except to fire at empty abandoned buildings?


----------



## beagle9

Ame®icano said:


> I don't know. Could've been smart bomb.
> 
> 
> 
> If you watched other video, those launchers would fire and then run back to this building to hide and reload. That's how they track them down.
> 
> 
> 
> To a globohomo, he is. I believe he really cares about his country, but he's mistaken it he think that West cares about Ukraine or him at all. He's rather tool for the West to get them what they want, and they couldn't care less if Ukraine is completely destroyed and half of the population displaced elsewhere. Imagine money being poured in Ukraine to rebuild, imagine how much money is to be made, and launder when all this is done. Some day Ukraine will have to pay back those investments, and they won't be dictating the terms. At first sign of not complying with demand from the West, Zelensky will be thrown under the bus.


Yes I thought I saw the firing of rocket launchers near a building by heat signature video like you say, and so that was the building that was hit eh ?? So are we being lied too about the use of these buildings after they are hit ? I hope not, but would I be surprised if the propaganda is being poured on thick and heavy within the conflict from both sides be it ukranian or russian ? Not really.

They need to get to the negotiation table, because killing each other isn't the answer, and they don't need the world agging it on or saying or doing things that make matters worse for the one's fighting. Give peace a chance. No sense in destroying people and their homes to make a point. Guess the world has forgotten once again how ridiculous war really is, and how in the end no one really wins. If the laws regarding cultural tendencies were enforced, otherwise to not allow them to get out of hand in the world, then the dogs of war wouldn't be howling once again. Disrespect brings about war either on the individual level or upon the broader level, so whenever nations begin to stray to far away from keeping a moral standard involved, then that's when things begin to fall apart, and the disrespect comes. The world is in grave danger these days, because the deterioration of societies is at hand.


----------



## beagle9

Ringo said:


> These are military trucks. I saw a video showing trucks with missile systems entering and leaving this building. Do you think the russians have nowhere else to put missiles, except to fire at empty abandoned buildings?


Empty abandoned buildings ? Wasn't it said that the buildings were occupied ? With what who knows, but occupied none the less.


----------



## Ringo

US-Funded Neo-Nazis in Ukraine Mentor US White Supremacists
					

Short-sighted U.S. foreign policy that backs jihadists in the Middle East and neo-Nazis in Ukraine is once again blowing back on the United States, as Max Blumenthal explains.  FBI: Azov Battalion Trained Rise Above Movement By Max Blumenthal Last month, an unsealed FBI indictment of four Americ




					consortiumnews.com


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Silver Cat said:


> Yes, of course, there were pretty good reasons to invade (almost same that the Russians use to excuse their own invasion in Ukraine), but it doesn't change the facts, that it was committed without permission of SC UN, and one of it consequence was changed course of the Russian policy.


Vapid psychobabble.

The only reason to invade was Putin's vanity. The entire world knows it. Stop embarrassing yourself.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Ringo said:


> US-Funded Neo-Nazis in Ukraine Mentor US White Supremacists
> 
> 
> Short-sighted U.S. foreign policy that backs jihadists in the Middle East and neo-Nazis in Ukraine is once again blowing back on the United States, as Max Blumenthal explains.  FBI: Azov Battalion Trained Rise Above Movement By Max Blumenthal Last month, an unsealed FBI indictment of four Americ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> consortiumnews.com


That embarrassing propaganda only works on old Russians and the Trump cult.


----------



## Toro




----------



## Silver Cat

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Vapid psychobabble.
> 
> The only reason to invade was Putin's vanity. The entire world knows it. Stop embarrassing yourself.


No. Obviously no. Rational players don't put the world on the brink of a nuclear war just because of vanity. And the Russians are pretty rational guys (even if somebody don't understand their reasons).


----------



## Silver Cat

Toro said:


> View attachment 621544






The Russian propaganda make same pictures.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Silver Cat said:


> No. Obviously no. Rational players don't put the world on the brink of a nuclear war just because of vanity. And the Russians are pretty rational guys (even if somebody don't understand their reasons).


Yes, sorry. The entire world knows it. Your propaganda doesn't work on anyone except old Russians and the Trump cult.


----------



## Silver Cat

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Yes, sorry. The entire world knows it. Your propaganda doesn't work on anyone except old Russians and the Trump cult.


If the Russians were irrational players - the game was ended many years ago.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Silver Cat said:


> If the Russians were irrational players - the game was ended many years ago.


They are irrational, in the framework of the global norms that have existed since 1949.

In the context of trying to cement his personal legacy, and in the fantasies of a man who thought he would roll over Ukraine easily, the act of invading Ukraine appears rational.


----------



## Silver Cat

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> They are irrational, in the framework of the global norms that have existed since 1949.


Actually, their actions are pretty rational - as well as were rational American actions in Cuban Missile Crisis, in support of Southern Vietnam or the current American support of Zelenskiy's regime.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Silver Cat said:


> Actually, their actions are pretty rational -


Yes, putin woke up one morning and decided he wanted to destroy his own economy and throw away a few thousand armored vehicles and 15,000 soldiers. So, naturally, he did the rational thing and invaded Ukraine.
.

Dude, I don't think you realize how fucking dumb you sound.


----------



## Toro

Silver Cat said:


> View attachment 621638
> 
> The Russian propaganda make same pictures.



And you're re-tweeting them, Russian troll.


----------



## Silver Cat

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Yes, putin woke up one morning and decided he wanted to destroy his own economy and throw away a few thousand armored vehicles and 15,000 soldiers. So, naturally, he did the rational thing and invaded Ukraine.
> .
> 
> Dude, I don't think you realize how fucking dumb you sound.


It wasn't just spontaneous decision. It is a well-calculated element of his Ukrainian (and European) strategy.


----------



## Silver Cat

Toro said:


> And you're re-tweeting them, Russian troll.


And you are retweeting Ukrainian pictures. Should we call you "Ukrainian troll"?


----------



## Toro

Silver Cat said:


> And you are retweeting Ukrainian pictures. Should we call you "Ukrainian troll"?



I'm not being paid in rubles for shitposting like you are, loser.


----------



## Ame®icano

Ukrainians shooting POW's in the knees. At the end of the video.



			https://files.catbox.moe/juxmpi.mp4


----------



## Ame®icano

This is fucked up...





Your browser is not able to display this video.


----------



## petro




----------



## AlexanderPK

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Yes, sorry. The entire world knows it. Your propaganda doesn't work on anyone except old Russians and the Trump cult.


The Trump cult constitutes half of the country's population, mostly the sane one, so it might not be that bad for "your" propaganda.


----------



## AlexanderPK

Ame®icano said:


> Ukrainians shooting POW's in the knees. At the end of the video.
> 
> 
> 
> https://files.catbox.moe/juxmpi.mp4


The bastards dug their Graves on rather built gallows for themselves. There'll be no mercy. I wish they be captured by DNR or LNR guys. Those have their personal grudge to settle.


----------



## beagle9

Ame®icano said:


> This is fucked up...
> 
> View attachment 621843


Would hate to be on the receiving end of that mess..


----------



## beagle9

petro said:


> View attachment 621845


Ok, so what's this saying to America ??? Should we be supporting Zelensky or helping to change their government out also ??


----------



## petro

beagle9 said:


> Ok, so what's this saying to America ??? Should we be supporting Zelensky or helping to change their government out also ??


That we are supporting questionable people in order to get at Russia. 
We have done this for decades and it always later bites us in the ass.


----------



## beagle9

petro said:


> That we are supporting questionable people in order to get at Russia.
> We have done this for decades and it always later bites us in the ass.


Yes, we do seem to end up all involved in many ways where we shouldn't have been, and then the backlash comes.


----------



## Ame®icano

*Expired Russians MREs*
*Dude gets to watch his dad and two dogs die in cold blood*
*Russkies hit by mortar fire*
*Russian loot box*
*Blowing up armor left by the Russians*
*Azov capture Vilhivka*


----------



## Ame®icano

NLAW used





Your browser is not able to display this video.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Silver Cat said:


> It wasn't just spontaneous decision. It is a well-calculated element of his Ukrainian (and European) strategy.


Yes, that was Sarcasm, genius.


----------



## Ame®icano

Go full screen, good footage.


----------



## beagle9

Ame®icano said:


> Go full screen, good footage.


Question out of curiosity - Why don't the tanks in theater have counter measures like chaff or other such counter measures on board to deploy, otherwise when it comes to incoming heat seekers or infrared missiles that are incoming ?? I thought this was 2022 where militaries should have trained for this kind of warfare, and developed counter measures that would protect their man power and assets in theater. It almost looks like a turkey shoot. I thought modern tanks were ready for anything this day and age. Being in a tank is like a sitting duck when it comes to the battlefield. Just an observation from a military interest kind of view.

Is it that the guerilla warfare tactics of getting in close, and then the quickness of the anti-tank weaponry leaves it's opponents with no reaction time when it comes to countering the threats to the tanks and equipment in the field ? 

I remember watching a documentary about arms dealer's way back in the day, and the interviewer asked the weapons dealer "where was the safest place he thought was on the battlefield" ? The dealer said "not in the tank", everybody goes after the tank...


----------



## Ame®icano

beagle9 said:


> Question out of curiosity - Why don't the tanks in theater have counter measures like chaff or other such counter measures on board to deploy, otherwise when it comes to incoming heat seekers or infrared missiles that are incoming ?? I thought this was 2022 where militaries should have trained for this kind of warfare, and developed counter measures that would protect their man power and assets in theater. It almost looks like a turkey shoot. I thought modern tanks were ready for anything this day and age. Being in a tank is like a sitting duck when it comes to the battlefield. Just an observation from a military interest kind of view.
> 
> Is it that the guerilla warfare tactics of getting in close, and then the quickness of the anti-tank weaponry leaves it's opponents with no reaction time when it comes to countering the threats to the tanks and equipment in the field ?
> 
> I remember watching a documentary about arms dealer's way back in the day, and the interviewer asked the weapons dealer "where was the safest place he thought was on the battlefield" ? The dealer said "not in the tank", everybody goes after the tank...



Russian tanks (T-72, T-90) and Ukrainian (T-72, T-80/84) we've seen in this war all have reactive armor, which is basically explosive sandwiched in between two plates. Those explode when directly hit and explosion redirect the cumulative explosion away. They work against most light shoulder launched systems what require direct hit, but not against Javelins or NLAWs that hit the tank from above. They don't work well against rounds fired from other tanks due to velocity and material used (like depleted uranium). Against Javelins and NLAWs, some tanks have "active reactive armor" called "hard kill" that are used as countermeasures you mentioned above, and they pop out and explode before the rocket hit, eventually destroying it.


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## Ame®icano




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## Fort Fun Indiana

Putin the stable genius:


They dug trenches in the worst, tiny little spot on the entire planet to dig a trench.

They apparently had no idea it was radioactive. Is the information in Russia that controlled? Not one person knew it was radioactive, or thought to find out if it was radioactive or not?

Were these Putin's conscripts that he just experimented on? What in the wide world of sports is going on, here?

Did Putin even know they took the Chernobyl plant and dug in?


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## Fort Fun Indiana

petro said:


> That we are supporting questionable people in order to get at Russia.


You think that's what this is about? For us and all of our allies? "Getting at Russia"...?

Come on.


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## Ame®icano

Mortar crew





Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## Ame®icano

Azov, Mariupol





Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## xyz

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Putin the stable genius:
> 
> 
> They dug trenches in the worst, tiny little spot on the entire planet to dig a trench.
> 
> They apparently had no idea it was radioactive. Is the information in Russia that controlled? Not one person knew it was radioactive, or thought to find out if it was radioactive or not?
> 
> Were these Putin's conscripts that he just experimented on? What in the wide world of sports is going on, here?
> 
> Did Putin even know they took the Chernobyl plant and dug in?


If you really think Putin cares about the Russian military, check out the Kursk submarine tragedy.


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## Ame®icano

Slovakia is sending ZUZANA howitzers to Ukraine.





Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## beagle9

Ame®icano said:


>


Modern warfare is something to witness. A lot of vulnerabilities where militaries didn't think that there was as much as we've seen.


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## beagle9

Ame®icano said:


> Slovakia is sending ZUZANA howitzers to Ukraine.
> 
> View attachment 627968


Looks like things are escalating... Not sure where all this is going, because although Putin is losing a lot on the ground, he has his air force and missiles that most likely will be deployed in full force from safer levels in order to achieve his directives or goals, otherwise if the war continues, and especially if it continues to suffer him badly on the ground... Look out because he most likely will, and probably will definitely respond in a more violent manor than already seen up to now...  World reporting (MSM), should be aware that hopefully they won't be fueling this war with it's highly emotional and irrational reporting or either they will be fueling it with their highly irrational reporting.

Ukraine doesn't look like it's fairing to well by the looks of the cities already flattened by the war, and sadly after looking at the numbers of non-combatants killed after the Russian storm goes through, it is a tragic situation. 

Not sure what triggered the final solution that Putin is fully engaged in concerning Ukraine (i.e the war in Ukraine), but wars aren't won clean ever, so it doesn't surprise me on the tactics used by the aggressor's in the situation.

Hopefully the world will find out who actually caused this situation (the full disclosure), be it either if they were directly or indirectly involved be it politically or non-politically.


My heart's goes out for the innocent's being caught up in the crossfire. Lord please bring peace back to this region. Amen.


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## badger2

Nothing fails like prayer, because the god prayed to is a non-existent entity imagined from inside an existent head.


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## Ame®icano

beagle9 said:


> Looks like things are escalating... Not sure where all this is going, because although Putin is losing a lot on the ground, he has his air force and missiles that most likely will be deployed in full force from safer levels in order to achieve his directives or goals, otherwise if the war continues, and especially if it continues to suffer him badly on the ground... Look out because he most likely will, and probably will definitely respond in a more violent manor than already seen up to now...  World reporting (MSM), should be aware that hopefully they won't be fueling this war with it's highly emotional and irrational reporting or either they will be fueling it with their highly irrational reporting.
> 
> Ukraine doesn't look like it's fairing to well by the looks of the cities already flattened by the war, and sadly after looking at the numbers of non-combatants killed after the Russian storm goes through, it is a tragic situation.
> 
> Not sure what triggered the final solution that Putin is fully engaged in concerning Ukraine (i.e the war in Ukraine), but wars aren't won clean ever, so it doesn't surprise me on the tactics used by the aggressor's in the situation.
> 
> Hopefully the world will find out who actually caused this situation (the full disclosure), be it either if they were directly or indirectly involved be it politically or non-politically.
> 
> 
> My heart's goes out for the innocent's being caught up in the crossfire. Lord please bring peace back to this region. Amen.



MSM is fueling this war on behalf western governments. They even openly admit they were lying and fabricating intel about Russians in order to sway public opinion against them.


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## Ame®icano

beagle9  Your reaction tells me you're surprised with what I said.

I don't watch TV, but I've been pointed out to this clip, therefore reason for why I said it.
The specific part is on 2:30 mark. Things get interesting when you go down the memory hole...


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## Ame®icano

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Putin the stable genius:
> 
> 
> They dug trenches in the worst, tiny little spot on the entire planet to dig a trench.
> 
> They apparently had no idea it was radioactive. Is the information in Russia that controlled? Not one person knew it was radioactive, or thought to find out if it was radioactive or not?
> 
> Were these Putin's conscripts that he just experimented on? What in the wide world of sports is going on, here?
> 
> Did Putin even know they took the Chernobyl plant and dug in?



Why are you suddenly worried about Russians and their lives? You must be Putin plant.


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## Ame®icano

What happened here?

*VIDEO*


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## Ame®icano

Ame®icano said:


> What happened here?
> 
> *VIDEO*



Here is another angle...





Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## para bellum

Ame®icano said:


> What happened here?
> 
> *VIDEO*


It looks like a shell (or maybe a tandem ATGM) hit the front of the tank and was deflected by the ERA into the circle soldiers standing in front.


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## Ame®icano

para bellum said:


> It looks like a shell (or maybe a tandem ATGM) hit the front of the tank and was deflected by the ERA into the circle soldiers standing in front.



One more *VIDEO*


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## para bellum

As the tank approaches, it gets hit in the front. An instant later, the second explosion.


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## Ame®icano

Here is another angle... go full screen.





Your browser is not able to display this video.




The same *VIDEO* with sound, tank fired twice, then machine gun fire.

Here is *VIDEO* of the aftermath.


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## para bellum

Ame®icano said:


> Here is another angle... go full screen.
> 
> View attachment 629636
> 
> The same *VIDEO* with sound, tank fired twice, then machine gun fire.
> 
> Here is *VIDEO* of the aftermath.





Ame®icano said:


> Here is another angle... go full screen.
> 
> View attachment 629636
> 
> The same *VIDEO* with sound, tank fired twice, then machine gun fire.
> 
> Here is *VIDEO* of the aftermath.


The first one is an obvious CGI. The dirt piles are not very well done, the highway is clean and the soldiers are standing in tall grass.


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## Ame®icano

para bellum said:


> The first one is an obvious CGI. The dirt piles are not very well done, the highway is clean and the soldiers are standing in tall grass.



I saw that later. I was just posting what I found online.


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## Ame®icano

By the way, Mariupol seems to be under Russian control.

Over 1,000 Ukrainian troops surrender in Mariupol — Russian top brass​


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## ESay

Ame®icano said:


> By the way, Mariupol seems to be under Russian control.
> 
> Over 1,000 Ukrainian troops surrender in Mariupol — Russian top brass​


It seems that yes, but the number of Ukrainian troops more likely is fake.


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## Ame®icano

beagle9 said:


> Question out of curiosity - Why don't the tanks in theater have counter measures like chaff or other such counter measures on board to deploy, otherwise when it comes to incoming heat seekers or infrared missiles that are incoming ?? I thought this was 2022 where militaries should have trained for this kind of warfare, and developed counter measures that would protect their man power and assets in theater. It almost looks like a turkey shoot. I thought modern tanks were ready for anything this day and age. Being in a tank is like a sitting duck when it comes to the battlefield. Just an observation from a military interest kind of view.





Ame®icano said:


> Russian tanks (T-72, T-90) and Ukrainian (T-72, T-80/84) we've seen in this war all have reactive armor, which is basically explosive sandwiched in between two plates. Those explode when directly hit and explosion redirect the cumulative explosion away. They work against most light shoulder launched systems what require direct hit, but not against Javelins or NLAWs that hit the tank from above. They don't work well against rounds fired from other tanks due to velocity and material used (like depleted uranium). Against Javelins and NLAWs, some tanks have "active reactive armor" called "hard kill" that are used as countermeasures you mentioned above, and they pop out and explode before the rocket hit, eventually destroying it.



Here are few photos of version T-72B3M that survived anti-tank rocket hit. Notice the exploded "brick" that deflected the cumulative charge. Clink on photos to enlarge.


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## beagle9

Ame®icano said:


> Here are few photos of version T-72B3M that survived anti-tank rocket hit. Notice the exploded "brick" that deflected the cumulative charge. Clink on photos to enlarge.
> 
> View attachment 631515View attachment 631516View attachment 631517


You know what I thought of one time, otherwise in regards to protection of armor whether on ship's, tank's etc ??

Taking one inch diameter super strong steal pins say 2' long or less, and placing them like a porcupine hide (super close together), upon every square inch of the armor, and do so in a design that would disrupt the incoming warhead by it being detonated and shredded before it reaches the skin of the armor itself. Wouldn't that disrupt a shape charge that is so deadly to armor ??

So in summary the vehicle would look or have the appearance of a porcupine, but the look would be steal pins mounted or welded in a way to disrupt an incoming round by a shredder effect.

Weight might pose a serious problem though. Not sure what the formula would look like.


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## Ame®icano

*AZOV ATM - Yez!*
*AZOV No potato for Ruskies*
*Let's be retards*
*Play stupid games...*
*Win stupid prizes.*


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## Ame®icano

*Convoy STOP sign*
*Casual ride thru the city*
*Mine field volunteers*
*Midnight BBQ*
*Sowing season*


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## Ame®icano




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## para bellum

I never get tired of seeing the clips of commercial drones dropping the homemade grenade bombs.


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## para bellum




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## Toro




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## Ame®icano

Do you trust CNN?


Supposedly takes place near Kiev at the start of the invasion. Russkies already driving around in white vans with spray paint?


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## Toro

Ame®icano said:


> Do you trust CNN?



You trust Russian propaganda over America.

And you claim to be an American!

LOL


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## Ame®icano

Toro said:


> You trust Russian propaganda over America.
> 
> And you claim to be an American!
> 
> LOL


I don't have to claim to be what I just am. 

The question is, do you trust CNN? Question has nothing to do with Russians. 

Watch the video, it's clearly two different locations, with different timestamps. 






In this shoot from outside you can see its not the same room the two guys put the shirt on. Unless blind, you can clearly see there is dirt outside one, and but cobble outside the other.


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## Toro

Ame®icano said:


> I don't have to claim to be what I just am.
> 
> The question is, do you trust CNN? Question has nothing to do with Russians.
> 
> Watch the video, it's clearly two different locations, with different timestamps.
> 
> View attachment 643488
> 
> In this shoot from outside you can see its not the same room the two guys put the shirt on. Unless blind, you can clearly see there is dirt outside one, and but cobble outside the other.



Keep clinging, anti-American, pro-Putin rube!

You'll believe anything on RT and disbelieve everything on CNN.

Because that's what anti-Americans do!


----------



## Ame®icano

Toro said:


> Keep clinging, anti-American, pro-Putin rube!
> 
> You'll believe anything on RT and disbelieve everything on CNN.
> 
> Because that's what anti-Americans do!



Again, nobody is talking about Putin, Russians, or RT, just you. 

Let me remind you that question was, do you trust CNN?


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## Ame®icano




----------

