# Democrats:  Let's Throw Out The Constitution



## Billy_Kinetta (Jan 27, 2018)

*"One of the biggest problems with the Constitution as written is it makes changing anything nearly impossible."
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Not where public support exists for change, ya moron.  We have made changes 27 times.

America's Constitution is terrible. Let's throw it out and start over.


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## peach174 (Jan 27, 2018)

Who is the party that dropped conservative representation in the 90's and said they no longer existed?
Who is the party that then started working on getting rid of moderates?
Who high jacked the Dems and made it social democracy only?

So the next is getting rid of the constitution that stops dictatorship or tyranny.
Dems have forgotten equality for all.


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## DGS49 (Jan 27, 2018)

As anyone who was not sleeping in High School Civics class knows, the Founding FATHERS intentionally made it difficult to change the Constitution.  Change should be by a broad consensus, and not by a temporary majority in the Congress.

The outrage at this time in history is that Progressives starting with FDR have twisted and contorted the Constitution beyond all recognition, so that today, more than half of the Federal Government's discretionary outlays are for unconstitutional programs - starting with Social Security and Medicare.

The worst recent example of the phenomenon, obviously, was the Affordable Care Act, which was unconstitutional, root and branch, but which a compliant and foolish Supreme Court elected to allow for political considerations.

It is a disgrace.

Of course, Leftists cannot comprehend the difference between good/bad, and "unconstitutional," and think that everything "good" MUST BE constitutional, and everything they don't like must be "unconstitutional."  There are many GOOD ideas that are unconstitutional as hell, which is why one would need to go through the painful process of amending the Constitutional to make them happen.  But Leftists are too impatient and immature to allow this process to play out.


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## Votto (Jan 27, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> *"One of the biggest problems with the Constitution as written is it makes changing anything nearly impossible."
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> Not where public support exists for change, ya moron.  We have made changes 27 times.
> 
> America's Constitution is terrible. Let's throw it out and start over.



What happened to just ignoring it?

That has worked like a charm


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## Disir (Jan 27, 2018)

Who the hell is Ryan Cooper?


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## peach174 (Jan 27, 2018)

Disir said:


> Who the hell is Ryan Cooper?




Ryan Cooper | CNN Journalist | Muck Rack


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## Disir (Jan 27, 2018)

peach174 said:


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I have CNN on ignore.  No wonder.


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## Moonglow (Jan 27, 2018)

The GOP doesn't follow the Constitution to the letter either....


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## Disir (Jan 27, 2018)

Well, he can do it the correct way in order to be taken seriously.  Alter or abolish. 
I'm going to need to see some usurpations and abuses. 

The Final Text of the Declaration of Independence July 4 1776 < 1776-1785 < Documents < American History From Revolution To Reconstruction and beyond

If he is unwilling or unable then he can have a big bowl of STFU stew.


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## ScienceRocks (Jan 29, 2018)

And yet your war on drugs and all the unconstutitional shit you republican do isn't discussed. Fucking two faced idiots.


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## Skylar (Jan 29, 2018)

Disir said:


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Oh, so this one dude is 'Democrats'. 

Cool. Does that mean Lou Dobbs is 'Republicans'? If so, I've got some choice quotes from 'Republicans'.


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## peach174 (Jan 29, 2018)

ScienceRocks said:


> And yet your war on drugs and all the unconstutitional shit you republican do isn't discussed. Fucking two faced idiots.



Yes it is you seem to keep missing it.

The war on drugs was from the term by media, when Nixon said public enemy #1.

What part are you refusing to get ,that they voted for a non politician because we are fed up with both parties!!!


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## jillian (Jan 29, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> *"One of the biggest problems with the Constitution as written is it makes changing anything nearly impossible."
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> Not where public support exists for change, ya moron.  We have made changes 27 times.
> 
> America's Constitution is terrible. Let's throw it out and start over.



seems that's what Donald and his loons are doing. so you should probably stop whining


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## jillian (Jan 29, 2018)

peach174 said:


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the term was adopted because Nixon called drugs "public enemy number one" and dumbed ridiculous amounts of our money into it and incarcerating addicts instead of treating them.... not to mention military incursions to address drugs... well, except when the contras and CIA were involved.

and of course, this:

*In June 2011, the **Global Commission on Drug Policy** released a critical report on the War on Drugs, declaring: "The global war on drugs has failed, with devastating consequences for individuals and societies around the world. Fifty years after the initiation of the **UN Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs**, and years after President Nixon launched the US government's war on drugs, fundamental reforms in national and global drug control policies are urgently needed."**[18]** The report was criticized by organizations that oppose a general legalization of drugs*

War on drugs - Wikipedia

distinguishing between what is legitimately reported and what is made up matters. you might find it helpful.


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## danielpalos (Jan 29, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> *"One of the biggest problems with the Constitution as written is it makes changing anything nearly impossible."
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> Not where public support exists for change, ya moron.  We have made changes 27 times.
> 
> America's Constitution is terrible. Let's throw it out and start over.


I don't believe we could do a better job today.


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## peach174 (Jan 29, 2018)

jillian said:


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Pretty much what I said without all of the rigmarole.


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## jillian (Jan 29, 2018)

peach174 said:


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you mean you did it without setting forth any actual facts.

thanks.


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## peach174 (Jan 29, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> *"One of the biggest problems with the Constitution as written is it makes changing anything nearly impossible."
> *
> Not where public support exists for change, ya moron.  We have made changes 27 times.
> 
> America's Constitution is terrible. Let's throw it out and start over.



It's suppose to be.
It was designed for it to be that way so that when hot issues came up ,tempers could cool down before foolish decisions were made.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Jan 29, 2018)

Skylar said:


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No.  All Democrats are Democrats.

We've heard this nonsensical talk from them for at least 20 years.


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## peach174 (Jan 29, 2018)

jillian said:


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How so I said the same thing.
And yes it didn't work, just like Obama's shovel ready jobs.

I also hated Nixon the slime who thought he was above the law.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Jan 29, 2018)

peach174 said:


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Also that any such major decisions are put to the people, not decided solely by politicians, courts or special interests.


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## Skylar (Jan 29, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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So all republicans are republicans. 

So Republicans support giving a President the authority to shut down any news agency he believes is disseminating 'fake news'?


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## Billy_Kinetta (Jan 29, 2018)

Skylar said:


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What are you blabbing about?  What news agency has been shut down?


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## Skylar (Jan 29, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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When did I said a news agency was shut down?

I said republicans support giving a president the authority to shut down any news agency he believe is disseminating 'fake news'. 

Do you get 'support giving a president the authority to' means?


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## peach174 (Jan 29, 2018)

Skylar said:


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He is not shutting down news.
He has to get out what he's really doing, because the news is so negative and twists everything he says and does.
The media hates that they don't have the monopoly any longer .
We have the right for free speech and that includes our Presidents.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Jan 29, 2018)

Skylar said:


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I know of no such activity or support, and such activity or support is most unlikely.  Perhaps you're mistaking Democrats for Republicans.


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## Skylar (Jan 29, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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> “It's time to stop fake news and shut 'em down, and I mean shut 'em down,” Dobbs said, calling on the government to close any media outlet that the president deems to be false.
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> Trump praises Fox Business host who urged him to "stop fake news and shut 'em down"



So republicans are calling on giving the president the authority to close any media outlet the president believes is disseminating 'fake news'.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Jan 29, 2018)

Skylar said:


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That's called an individual opinion, not a widespread movement.

Not relative to the OP, since the Democrats are widely and often on record as describing the Constitution as an outdated relic that should be scrapped.


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## Skylar (Jan 29, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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Per our own standards, its Republicans calling for Trump to be given the power to shut down any news agency that he deems is 'false' and disseminating 'fake news'. 

So per Republicans....I guess the 1st amendment doesn't count when we're talking about Trump's power.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Jan 29, 2018)

Skylar said:


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Democrats have no standards.


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## Skylar (Jan 29, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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I'm citing *your* standards. Per *your* standards, Republicans are calling for the President to be given the power to shut down any media outlet that Trump deems is 'false'.

Republicans don't seem to be fond of the 1st amendment.


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## peach174 (Jan 29, 2018)

Skylar said:


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How about our media stop misinterpreting and using assumptions.


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## Skylar (Jan 29, 2018)

peach174 said:


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How about Republicans stop calling for the President to have the authority to shut down media outlets he deems to be 'false'. 

The 1st amendment is worth far more than Trump is.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Jan 29, 2018)

Skylar said:


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Wrong again.


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## peach174 (Jan 29, 2018)

Skylar said:


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No only one person is.


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## Skylar (Jan 29, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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Republcians say otherwise:



> It's time to stop fake news and shut 'em down, and I mean shut 'em down,” Dobbs said, calling on the government to close any media outlet that the president deems to be false.
> 
> Trump praises Fox Business host who urged him to "stop fake news and shut 'em down"



Why do Republicans have such low esteem for the 1st amendment? Is this a power that Republicans want only Trump to have? Or any president?


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## Skylar (Jan 29, 2018)

peach174 said:


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Only one person is cited for this this thread. Ryan Cooper.

If Ryan Cooper is Democrats then Lou Dobbs is Republicans.

Thus Republicans are calling for the President to be given the power to shut down any media outlet that Trump deems is 'false'.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Jan 29, 2018)

Skylar said:


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So you've been sleeping these last couple of decades.  Not surprising.


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## Skylar (Jan 29, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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I've applied your own standards. Its not my fault you're wiping your ass with them. 

Per your own standards, Republicans are calling for Trump to be given the power to shut down any news agency he deems 'false'. 

So much for the 1st amendment, eh?


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## Darkwind (Jan 29, 2018)

Skylar said:


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How about liberals stop shooting congresspeople at baseball events?   If you want to take this past your already imbicilic extreme, then lets go all the way.


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## peach174 (Jan 29, 2018)

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No Dobbs is.
When we include Dems, that's because there are a large number of them in lockstep with the same ideology ,social democracy.
They are the ones who took over the party.
There is no room for conservative ideology in their party and they were working on thinning out the moderates.
Our government needs all three ideologies in each party for it to work.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Jan 29, 2018)

Skylar said:


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"I'm sorry Dave, but this conversation no longer has any meaning.  Goodbye."


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## Disir (Jan 29, 2018)

Skylar said:


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Not relevant.


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## regent (Jan 29, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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The last time the conservatives shut down and fined newspapers for printing  material they didn't approve of; the  Party died never to be in the running for office again. 
The period after the conservative party died was called "Era of Good Feelings.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Jan 29, 2018)

regent said:


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Show relevance.


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## Skylar (Jan 30, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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And there you go, wiping your ass with your own standards.

If Ryan Cooper is Democrats, then Lou Dobbs is Republicans.

laughing....even you don't believe your nonsense.


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## Skylar (Jan 30, 2018)

Darkwind said:


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If Ryan Cooper is 'democrats' then Lou Dobbs is 'republicans'. I didn't hear you complaining about 'imbecilic extremes' when the thread was opened on the Op-Ed of ONE dude....and it was attributed to democrats.

Inconsistent much?


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## Skylar (Jan 30, 2018)

peach174 said:


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You've cited one person: Ryan Cooper. You've *imagined* that he represents many other democrats. But you've provided absolutely nothing but your imagination to back that up.

Lets apply your standards. I've cited one person; Lou Dobbs. Per me, citing myself....he represented many other republicans. I've provided nothing to back that up. 

Thus, per your own standards.......Republicans want to give Trump the power to shut down media agencies that he deems 'false'.

Laughing....you either have to scrap the standard or accept that republicans hate the 1st amendment. Pick one.


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## Darkwind (Jan 30, 2018)

Skylar said:


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Please, I'm not the one playing childish oneupmanship in an effort to paint everyone on the basis of a few.

Get a grip.


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## Skylar (Jan 30, 2018)

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Then you condemn the entire premise of the thread as well? Because 'democrats' didn't say throw out the contitution. Ryan Cooper did.

If Ryan Cooper is 'democrats' then Lou Dobbs is 'republicans'. It either applies to both, or neither. Pick one.


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## peach174 (Jan 30, 2018)

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We're talking group thinking of far left ideology. Widespread movement.
The Flower Power types from the sixties.
"It's all one man"  

Lou Dobbs is individual , not a group of ideologies. Not a movement.


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## Skylar (Jan 30, 2018)

peach174 said:


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We're talking about you imagining its a far left group think and backing it with nothing but the word of one man: Ryan Cooper.

I offer you the far right group group think backed with the word of one man: Lou Dobbs. Thus, republicans want to give Trump the power to shut down any media outlet he deems 'false'.

See how that works? Your reasoning either applies to both, or neither.


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## peach174 (Jan 30, 2018)

Imagining?

No you can hear it in their speech.
It's like watching the sixties TV again saying the same thing when they started that movement of ideology.


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## Skylar (Jan 30, 2018)

peach174 said:


> Imagining?
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> No you can hear it in their speech.
> It's like watching the sixties TV again saying the same thing when they started that movement of ideology.



Says you, citing your own imagination. The only person beyond your imagination that has been cited to support your claims.....is Ryan Cooper.

And the only one beyond myself I'm citing to support my claims.....is Lou Dobbs.

If Ryan Cooper is 'Democrats', then Lou Dobbs is 'Republicans'.


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## peach174 (Jan 30, 2018)

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Says me and others like Billy Kinetta.

Not just Lou Dobbs, but Ruth Ginsberg, University Professors and so on, many. Individuals not a movement. If it was a movement you would see them out there in groups advocating for it.


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## Skylar (Jan 30, 2018)

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Can you show me Ruth Ginsberg ever saying 'lets throw out the constitution'?

Or is this imaginary Ruth Ginsberg?


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## peach174 (Jan 30, 2018)

Skylar said:


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She said it was out dated.


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## Skylar (Jan 30, 2018)

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When did she say 'lets throw out the constitution'? Because so far you've only quoted IRGB


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## mudwhistle (Jan 30, 2018)

peach174 said:


> Who is the party that dropped conservative representation in the 90's and said they no longer existed?
> Who is the party that then started working on getting rid of moderates?
> Who high jacked the Dems and made it social democracy only?
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Bet they really hate the 10th Amendment......or they don't know what it is.


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## peach174 (Jan 30, 2018)

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What part of what I said did you not get?
I never said that she was for throwing out the constitution.
I said that she thought the constitution was outdated. That's an individual opinion and not a movement.


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## Skylar (Jan 30, 2018)

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The part where she never said 'lets throw out the constitution'. 



> I never said that she was for throwing out the constitution.



So we're back to square one. Where you've got Ryan Cooper as 'Democrats'. And I've got Lou Dobbs as "Republicans'.


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## Disir (Jan 31, 2018)

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So, you managed to ignore my post after that because it suited your purpose?  Were you dropped on your head as a child?


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## Skylar (Jan 31, 2018)

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I've quoted your post. You're clearly not following the conversation.


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## Disir (Feb 2, 2018)

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Disir said:


> Well, he can do it the correct way in order to be taken seriously. Alter or abolish.
> I'm going to need to see some usurpations and abuses.
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> The Final Text of the Declaration of Independence July 4 1776 < 1776-1785 < Documents < American History From Revolution To Reconstruction and beyond
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## Slash (Feb 4, 2018)

I used to think that was where Democrats leaned.  And I am a Republican.   But to see Trump side with Big Business over the US Constitution with the NFL is despicable.   I get that the pre-game kneeling is disrespectful.  I get that the NFL saying they let their players express their constitutional freedom of speech even if it offends some people is not a move all companies would, or have to make.   But damn, to call for them to block the freedom of speech because you are offended by it?   That's where it ended for me.   R/D on the back of someones name doesn't matter if you hate the Constitution and speak out against it, you lost my support.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 4, 2018)

DGS49 said:


> As anyone who was not sleeping in High School Civics class knows, the Founding FATHERS intentionally made it difficult to change the Constitution.  Change should be by a broad consensus, and not by a temporary majority in the Congress.
> 
> The outrage at this time in history is that Progressives starting with FDR have twisted and contorted the Constitution beyond all recognition, so that today, more than half of the Federal Government's discretionary outlays are for unconstitutional programs - starting with Social Security and Medicare.
> 
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What makes you think high schools teach Civics classes any more?


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## ScienceRocks (Feb 8, 2018)

So the constitution says that the poor can fucking die, be serfs and the rich can have it all? Right? 

If not then the democrats aint saying that at all.


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## Wyatt earp (Feb 8, 2018)

Skylar said:


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A picture speaks a thousand words 







 



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## Wyatt earp (Feb 8, 2018)

ScienceRocks said:


> So the constitution says that the poor can fucking die, be serfs and the rich can have it all? Right?
> 
> If not then the democrats aint saying that at all.





Yea they saying this...


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## TheParser (Feb 9, 2018)

We have all been taught that the United States has the best Constitution ever written.

Perhaps that is true.

But perhaps the Constitution is not really suitable for this changing country (and, boy, is it changing!).

*****

Perhaps a parliamentary form of government would be better.

We would have a ceremonial president who is the symbol of the nation. S/he would be someone who is above politics and someone all Americans could either admire or ignore. This would prevent the kind of  horrific (and dangerous) polarization that we are witnessing today.

We would have a prime minister, who would have the power.

Since s/he would need a vote of confidence to continue, s/he could be "invited" to leave at any time.

*****

I do believe that a parliamentary system of government (based on proportional representation) comes closest to a true democracy.

*Everyone * gets a voice at the table.


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## Disir (Feb 9, 2018)

Does it change the oligarchy? No.  

Keep the Constitution.


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## danielpalos (Feb 9, 2018)

TheParser said:


> We have all been taught that the United States has the best Constitution ever written.
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The right wing is supposed to have better solutions at lower cost, not, nothing but repeal.


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## BS Filter (Feb 10, 2018)

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Repealing Obungocare IS a better solution.  Nothing but a con game and a big lie, wasting billions of tax dollars.  Ya'll should be ashamed of yourselves.


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## danielpalos (Feb 10, 2018)

BS Filter said:


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The right wing had nothing but repeal.  They never had any solutions.


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## BS Filter (Feb 10, 2018)

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Solutions for what?


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## danielpalos (Feb 11, 2018)

BS Filter said:


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our spending on alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror.


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## danielpalos (Feb 11, 2018)

Dear Judicature, 

We cannot be in real times of War if the right wing believes we can lower taxes and not raise taxes, meet for the alleged exigency.



> In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people, personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore, we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.



That is what wartime tax rates look like.

The right wing alleging we can lower taxes, is just socialized income redistribution that benefits those with the most Capital, not the exigencies of our Republic.

Merely, a right wing "feel good" policy that does not benefit our Republic.


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## BS Filter (Feb 11, 2018)

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Spending on national defense is a constitutional requirement.  Spending on health care insurance isn't.  Are you a socialist?


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## danielpalos (Feb 11, 2018)

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We can lower taxes.  It Must be real times of Peace, not real times of War.  We have a Second Amendment, we don't need a standing army.


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## BS Filter (Feb 11, 2018)

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Obviously we do need a military because it's a Constitutional requirement.  Are you against the US Constitution?


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## danielpalos (Feb 11, 2018)

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We have a Second Amendment.


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## BS Filter (Feb 11, 2018)

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Yep, and we also have Article 1 Section 8.


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## danielpalos (Feb 11, 2018)

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Yes, we do.  It says to provide for the general welfare and only the common defense.  It does not say to provide for the general warfare or the common offense.


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## BS Filter (Feb 11, 2018)

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First, "general welfare" doesn't include paying your medical insurance premiums.  If it did, the founders would have told congress to do that from day one.  Second, killing a rattle snake before it bites you is self defense.  Case closed.


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## danielpalos (Feb 11, 2018)

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They simply didn't think of it.  In any case, why do you believe there should be limits to the General welfare but not the Common defense?


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## BS Filter (Feb 11, 2018)

danielpalos said:


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LOL.....that's funny...."they simply didn't think of it".  Your interpretation of General Welfare isn't constitutional.  It didn't mean the government should pay insurance premiums for people.  I do agree with you that the founders "simply didn't think of it".  They didn't think of it because that's not what the "general welfare clause" was intended for. You lefties are continually trying to rewrite the Constitution.  Funny stuff.


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## danielpalos (Feb 11, 2018)

BS Filter said:


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You make it seem like the right wing is simply, clueless and Causeless.

The common Defense is not the common Offense or general Warfare.

The general welfare clause is general, not major or specific or common.


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## BS Filter (Feb 11, 2018)

danielpalos said:


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Oh yeah, for sure, the right wing is really stupid.  Uh huh.  Have a nice day.


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## danielpalos (Feb 11, 2018)

BS Filter said:


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Nothing but fallacy instead of a valid rebuttal for an argument, every time.


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## BS Filter (Feb 11, 2018)

danielpalos said:


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Oh, cut the crap.  I gave you a rebuttal.  You're the one that started calling people stupid when you didn't have a rebuttal.  Run along now.  Have a nice day.


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## danielpalos (Feb 11, 2018)

BS Filter said:


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The general welfare clause is general, not major or specific or common.


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## BS Filter (Feb 11, 2018)

danielpalos said:


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danielpalos said:


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So lying to the American people about Obamacare, wasting billions of taxpayer money, and forcing me to pay higher insurance premiums to pay for the lies of Obama and democrats is promoting the "general welfare"?  Idiocy.


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## danielpalos (Feb 11, 2018)

BS Filter said:


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The right wing had nothing but repeal, not better solutions at lower cost.


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## BS Filter (Feb 11, 2018)

danielpalos said:


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Here we go round the mulberry bush, round and round we go, where it stops nobody knows.


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## danielpalos (Feb 11, 2018)

BS Filter said:


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The general welfare clause is general, not major or specific or common.


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## BS Filter (Feb 11, 2018)

danielpalos said:


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You're repeating yourself.  You have a nice day.  bye.


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## danielpalos (Feb 11, 2018)

BS Filter said:


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Nothing but repeal really is worthless.  How long does the right believe they can be credible, with nothing but repeal?


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## AZGAL (Feb 11, 2018)

Recently, it was a homeless shelter in Seattle being sued because of their beliefs.  In apparent effort to ensure that no faith-based social service provider goes unpunished, a convent of nuns is being taken back to court as well.

Little Sisters of the Poor had previously been in a four-year legal battle with the Obama Administration over attempts to make them pay for contraception

New Health and Human Services rules from the Trump administration created a religious exemption that eliminated the mandate and once again permitted Little Sisters of the Poor to decide for themselves whether they wanted to pay for all, some, or no forms of contraception.

However, California Attorney General Xavier Becerra has filed a lawsuit aimed at eliminating the religious exemption that currently covers Little Sisters

Early next year, the Supreme Court will hear arguments in _NIFLA v. Becerra_ (yes, the same Becerra trying to eliminate the religious exemption in California) to determine whether the State of California can force pro-life pregnancy centers to advertise for abortion providers.


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## regent (Feb 13, 2018)

America has already started its government medical care programs, and they will probably continue to grow.


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