# For Ropey: U.S. Genocide in the Philippines



## Sallow (Jul 6, 2011)

For Ropey:

Bad things happen all the time.



> U.S. Genocide in the Philippines
> A Case of Guilt, Shame, or Amnesia?
> Tuesday March 22nd, 2005, by E. San Juan, Jr.
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And that's not all..

Genocides in history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Sallow (Jul 6, 2011)

And interestingly enough.

Ropey fails to respond.

Even to "hijack" the thread.


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## Synthaholic (Jul 6, 2011)

Filipinos aren't trying to get supplies to Palestinians, so Ropey doesn't care.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 6, 2011)

I'll have to read up on this before I post a comment, I did read some stuff on this conflict a while back but I need a refresh.


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## Sallow (Jul 6, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> Filipinos aren't trying to get supplies to Palestinians, so Ropey doesn't care.



As what was my contention on yet another thread about the Armenian Genocide.

It's not the Genocide that's his concern.


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## Ropey (Jul 6, 2011)

^^ Fucking morons.

You create a thread and then say I am afraid to respond while we are posting in another thread?

Cowardly and moronic. 

I just read it now.


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## Ropey (Jul 6, 2011)

Now we've been discussing for more than a few hours in that other thread.

I have things to do and will be back to respond to this later. 

If you don't mind, that is.


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## California Girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Ropey said:


> ^^ Fucking morons.
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> You create a thread and then say I am afraid to respond while we are posting in another thread?
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It's the husteria of the left, they can't cope with being ignored. 

Sallow is looking kinda shallow these days.


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## Sallow (Jul 6, 2011)

Ropey said:


> ^^ Fucking morons.
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> You create a thread and then say I am afraid to respond while we are posting in another thread?
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Well..my contention is that you really don't give a rat's ass about Genocide..and you are interested in throwing a NATO ally under the bus.

And a NATO ally that helped the Jewish people during WWII. Why? Because of the ongoing dispute between Israel and Turkey.

The genocide in the Philippines occurred at about the same time. And it's about the same number of people.

Nothing from you on it.

Ever.

Or genocides in general. Except for the one in Germany and the Armenian one.


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## Ropey (Jul 6, 2011)

Sallow said:


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Prove this. (not the moron attachment, that's already proven) 



Sallow said:


> And a NATO ally that helped the Jewish people during WWII. Why? Because of the ongoing dispute between Israel and Turkey.



Prove this. Show me where I have said this.



Sallow said:


> The genocide in the Philippines occurred at about the same time. And it's about the same number of people.
> 
> Nothing from you on it.
> 
> Ever.



Where is the thread? I haven't seen it. If it is here, and posted as a genocide in the title then either I missed it or it was before I came here. I post in the Darfur and Sudan threads.

Prove this as well.



Sallow said:


> Or genocides in general. Except for the one in Germany and the Armenian one.



Where is a thread about our personal views about Genocide in general?  See above and then.

Prove this as well.

Edit: 

*And now I really must go.*


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## martybegan (Jul 6, 2011)

Sallow said:


> For Ropey:
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> Bad things happen all the time.
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I'm not sure this falls under the catagory of genocide. Genocide means the attempt to eliminate a specific group, regardless of their status as combatants. In the phillipines it was an inssurrection, and the US's goal was pacification, not elimination. They didnt want all phillipinos dead, or want them to leave the phillipines. While you may consider the civillian deaths amoral or war crimes, it does not consitutute genocide.


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## Sallow (Jul 6, 2011)

Ropey said:


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Prove what?

Where's your thread about the Filipino genocide?
Where's your thread about the Turks helping the Jewish people during WWII?
Where's any thread you started about the Sudan?


Basically, I don't care if you are Israel centric. That's fine. But Turkey's been a good ally to the United States. And it's in America's interest to keep it that way.

Bottom line is I care far more about America then I do Israel.

And yeah..I don't like Genocide in general.


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## Sallow (Jul 6, 2011)

martybegan said:


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That's the contention of the Turks as well.


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## martybegan (Jul 6, 2011)

Sallow said:


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With the turks you saw a deliberate attempt to either kill off or get rid of the armenians, which is a different situation. The US didnt want the fillipinos to go to taiwan or anywhere else. Even during the fighting the political view was that the phillipines would eventually be given self determination, followed by independence. 

When you are going for genocide, you typically dont try to let the locals establish self rule (Judenraat excluded), recruit locals to your side (sonderkommando don't count), or try to establish systems of education for the people you are trying to remove/kill off.


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## Sallow (Jul 6, 2011)

martybegan said:


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Actually..I don't really see the difference here. About the same number of people died as well. The US was contending that the Philippines belonged to the US. The Turks were contending that Istanbul belong to them.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 6, 2011)

What value did the US see in the Phillippines? do they have oil?


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## Sallow (Jul 6, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> What value did the US see in the Phillippines? do they have oil?



Was a different time.

US had won the Philippines as a prize in the Spanish American War.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tAgg3OCtls]YouTube - &#x202a;Spanish American War the Philippines and Filipino Genocide 5&#x202c;&rlm;[/ame]


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## martybegan (Jul 6, 2011)

Sallow said:


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EVERYONE was getting colonies those days, even the freaky deaky dutch.


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## Sallow (Jul 6, 2011)

martybegan said:


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Ah..the good ol' days.


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## martybegan (Jul 6, 2011)

Sallow said:


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The difference was that killing the armenians had no real relation to keeping istanbul. There was no military value, besides getting rid if people who dont like you, to the mass migration and extermination of armenians. In the phillipines the US used a tactic of corralling civillians in camps, so they could gun for eveyone else remaining (the logic of outside of camp = rebel). The deaths in the camps were due to disease, not a systemic approach to kill filipinos. You can call the camp thing barbaric and a war crime, but its still not genocide. The US goal was not to kill every filipino, just the rebels. In the case of the Turks, ANY armenian was a target for either death or exodus. Same with the Jews in Germany in WWII.

My view on this is based on people not using words that invoke horror for any reason less than what they were intended for. Starting to call any group of deaths genocide weakens the term. 

As an aside, Cambodia is a wierd one, in that it was cambodians killing cambodians. I think that is genocide, but it doesnt fit into my definition well, I admit.


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## Sallow (Jul 6, 2011)

martybegan said:


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They Americans didn't only kill combatants..they killed everyone. The figures are somewhat shaky but it runs between 600K and 1.4 million people. I call that a genocide. We had no business whatsoever in the Philippines. Even ol' Teddy came to realize that.

Little late after everyone is dead.


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## martybegan (Jul 6, 2011)

Sallow said:


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The low end number I saw was 32k, which makes figuring out the number basically impossible. 

and considering it was an insurgency, you run into the problem you get now, what is a civillian vs what is a combatant.

Most of the civillian deaths were from disease in the camps, which in a sad twist of fate, were designed  to protect civillians from the fighting.


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## Ropey (Jul 6, 2011)

Ropey said:


> Sallow said:
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> > Well..my contention is that you really don't give a rat's ass about Genocide..and you are interested in throwing a NATO ally under the bus.
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				Sallow said:
			
		

> Prove what?



Prove what you said about me.



			
				Sallow said:
			
		

> Where's your thread about the Filipino genocide?
> Where's your thread about the Turks helping the Jewish people during WWII?
> Where's any thread you started about the Sudan?
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So, according to you I have to create threads? I can not just enter them and speak my piece.   Where's your threads? Where's your posts in the Darfur and Sudan threads? 

http://www.usmessageboard.com/africa/161259-south-sudan.html

You say I need to do this and then you support Turkey in their refusal to admit their genocide by calling it a terrible thing?  *Yeah, right. Where's your posts in the Sudan and Darfur threads?*



Ropey said:


> *You are also minimizing the act of genocide by attempting to attach a human identity to it in general so that you can then attempt to create comparisons as if those comparisons show a moral equivalence.*



You bandy the word genocide and bad and terrible together in one connected attachment.  See bold statement above. 

You whine about my posts on Turkey and the Genocide they committed on the Armenians. Then you post this thread to attack me in my view.

And another neg coming your way for your view that I must follow your standards to speak my piece. Do you think I care if you have more neg points than me? You seem to in your response.  I don't. 



California Girl said:


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Strewth...


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## theHawk (Jul 7, 2011)

Sallow said:


> They Americans didn't only kill combatants..they killed everyone. The figures are somewhat shaky but it runs between 600K and 1.4 million people. I call that a genocide. We had no business whatsoever in the Philippines. Even ol' Teddy came to realize that.
> 
> Little late after everyone is dead.



There is absolutely no proof that anywhere near "1.4 million" people were killed by the US in that war.  Hundreds of thousands died from Cholera and other diseases.  But you chalk that up as "genocide".

"The figures are somewhat shaky"


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## RetiredGySgt (Jul 7, 2011)

Sallow said:


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YOU OBVIOUSLY FAIL TO UNDERSTAND THE BASIC MEANING OF WORDS YOU THROW AROUND, A GENERAL FAILURE OF THE LEFT IN PRINCIPLE. Words have meanings and you don't get to change them for your convenience. Genocide is the systematic attempt to eliminate a group of people. In the Philippines no such attempt was made. It was an insurrection and a very brutal one at that. Are you aware that the .45 caliber automatic was developed because of that fight? The Filipinos would get hopped up on drugs and the .38 wouldn't even phase them.

They were brutal murderers bent on destroying anyone that opposed them. By the way we won that Insurrection. Perhaps we SHOULD take lessons from it.

In the case of Turkey I do not blame Turkey to begin with as the fighting was by the Ottoman Empire not Turkey. That would be like blaming the United States for the slave trade to North America when the British started it.


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## California Girl (Jul 7, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> What value did the US see in the Phillippines? do they have oil?



Is it your contention that we defend Israel because of oil? 

And, while we're talking oil...... if you don't like wars to protect our economic lifeblood, stop fucking driving.


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## Sallow (Jul 7, 2011)

martybegan said:


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Again..this was an imperialistic attempt to subjugate a people. Not sure what this little exercise in semantics proves or the diddling over the math. Most scholars on the subject agree that this was a terrible chapter in American history. And it basically qualifies as an attempt at Genocide. What set it off? The "massacre" of under 50 American military. What really set it off? The desire for a colony and to be counted as one of the "big boys" on the international scene.


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## Sallow (Jul 7, 2011)

RetiredGySgt said:


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Not even worth commenting about..


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## martybegan (Jul 7, 2011)

Sallow said:


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At that time everyone was doing it, and it was seen as morally acceptable. Again I dont see the genocide in this, even an attempt. The removal or elimination of the fillipino population was never a goal. 

American Imperialism was far from the worst brand. The dutch and germans were notorious for being complete assholes when running thier colonies.


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## strollingbones (Jul 7, 2011)

swallow ....enjoy the endless pm's you are gonna get from ropey

so i take it your point here is that jews only care about their holocaust....

i have found that to be true in general.....the motto....'never again'...should read....'never again to us'

genocide is neither a left or right problem ....its a human problem that needs to be stopped on all fronts regardless of who is being killed by whom


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## RetiredGySgt (Jul 7, 2011)

strollingbones said:


> swallow ....enjoy the endless pm's you are gonna get from ropey
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> so i take it your point here is that jews only care about their holocaust....
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Genocide has a specific meaning and fighting to put down an insurrection does not raise to the level of that term. No effort was made AT ALL to eliminate a race or group of people. Unless you include the enemy as a group and then according to that claim EVERY war is a Genocide.

Swallow is using a word that does not mean what he claims. A failing rampant among the left.


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## Sallow (Jul 7, 2011)

strollingbones said:


> swallow ....enjoy the endless pm's you are gonna get from ropey
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> so i take it your point here is that jews only care about their holocaust....
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Thanks dear for the offer..but no thanks..I have a girlfriend and to be quite honest, a bony girl just doesn't seem all that attractive to me.

And in any case..isn't the point a of message board to have messages?


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## Sallow (Jul 7, 2011)

martybegan said:


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The Philippines is not a very big place..so you don't see the elimination of large chunk of the population of the Island as genocide?

How about the American Indians? Introducing scarlet fever by giving them infected blankets..an attempt at genocide?

Some moron in this thread tries to offset the blame of slavery by pointing out that it was the British that started it..yeah..that works for about the first several decades..what about the rest of the century or so..America, responsible or not?

America has done some really really really vile things. Ignoring them..or watering them down, makes us look like hypocrites and devalues our leadership role in the world as the gold standard in respect for human rights.


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## Sunni Man (Jul 7, 2011)

strollingbones said:


> swallow ....enjoy the endless pm's you are gonna get from ropey
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 You have to remember; " Only the Jews have suffered."

 Everybody else was just inconvenienced.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 7, 2011)

California Girl said:


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I'm not saying anything like that, I just asked what value the US saw in the Phillipines thats all, now I know it was something completely different.


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## Sallow (Jul 7, 2011)

Sunni Man said:


> You have to remember; " Only the Jews have suffered."
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> Everybody else was just inconvenienced.



And that in a nutshell..covers it.


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## strollingbones (Jul 7, 2011)

Sallow said:


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Sallow said:


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i am not a boney girl


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## Ropey (Jul 7, 2011)

*Re-posted from the thread that brought this one about:*

Since the OP likes to hijack, I thought I would as well. 



tinydancer said:


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And since they won't admit their genocide. And since they are not the secularists they once were and now move to fundamentalist ideological Islam and are changing their constitution to allow for greater Islamic fundamentalism control.

I say watch them well lest they repeat on the Kurds.  Israel? We are too far away from Turkeys border. It's about genocide. Not Jews. Not Israel. Genocide.

Not fighting. Not warring. 

GENOCIDE:

*The systematic attempt to end a people in an arena.*

My view and that's all there is.


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## Ropey (Jul 7, 2011)

retiredgysgt said:


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qft!!!


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## martybegan (Jul 7, 2011)

Sallow said:


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Germans lost large chunks of thier population in WWI, same as the ruskies, was that genocide?


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## Synthaholic (Jul 7, 2011)

Ropey said:


> *Re-posted from the thread that brought this one about:*
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> Since the OP likes to hijack, I thought I would as well.
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It's about flotillas.


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## Ropey (Jul 7, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> It's about flotillas.



^^ To you it is. 

Flotillas will change nothing. Look at what's happened to the vaunted flotilla...

]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


Flotilla Debarge | MO's Universe

You would like to compare the flotillas with Genocide...



> Gaza flotilla all but over as most activists return home





> A few dozen activists remain in Athens to fight for the release of the ships, a sharp drop from the 350 who arrived there in June.



Gaza Flotilla Winds Down As Debate Gets Underway - Creve Coeur, MO Patch



> Israelis say UN report on Gaza flotilla to appear soon



Israelis say U.N. report on Gaza flotilla to appear soon | Reuters

It's about *Genocide*, not flotillas.


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## theHawk (Jul 8, 2011)

Sallow said:


> America has done some really really really vile things. Ignoring them..or watering them down, makes us look like hypocrites and devalues our leadership role in the world as the gold standard in respect for human rights.



If  you hate it here so much, please get the fuck out and stay out.

I'm sure you'd be much happier in China or Cuba.


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## Ropey (Jul 12, 2011)

theHawk said:


> Sallow said:
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These two are still trying to tell me that challenging my motives for creating a post is fine.

I guess it is when you can't challenge the facts and just try and shoot the messenger with an empty gun.  That's rather low brow thinking to my view.


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## Sallow (Jul 12, 2011)

martybegan said:


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Nope.


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## Sallow (Jul 12, 2011)

theHawk said:


> Sallow said:
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That went over your head. No surprise here..though.

And this is my country. Quite happy where I am.


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## ekrem (Jul 12, 2011)

Sallow said:


> and you are interested in throwing a NATO ally under the bus.




Everything what concerns the Armenians is a non-issue in view of the developments in the world and where the world and it's changing power-balance is headed towards to. Especially in the region around Turkey. Why want to fight and minimize your already declining influence around here? 
Just to placate some special interest groups who are trying to use the USA to stick it to Turkey?

Every action has it's consequences. 
And at the end of the day, no matter what some disloyal Politicians are trying to do, it is not going to happen, that the establishment in USA will come up with policies which will push Turkey to go it all alone with it's surrounding Muslim region (decoupled from the Transatlantic) or integrate into rising Asia to oppose Transatlantic. 

So you have to think, who really "gets thrown under the bus" if some avoidable actions take place.


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## Ropey (Jul 12, 2011)

Ropey said:


> *Re-posted from the thread that brought this one about:*
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> Since the OP likes to hijack, I thought I would as well.
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Bears repeating.


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## ekrem (Jul 13, 2011)

Forbes ranks Armenia as world's 2nd worst economy

Maybe they should stop spending for lobby-activities in US Congress and invest it in their country.


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## Sallow (Jul 13, 2011)

Ropey said:


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You can "repeat" it all you want. Asymetrical war, for the most part, is a form of genocide. When people have no real plausible way to defend themselves for a much bigger and better equipped military..and they've done nothing aggressive to warrant in invasion.

That's a crime. And if it kills millions..that's a genocide.


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## Ropey (Jul 13, 2011)

Ropey said:


> *Re-posted from the thread that brought this one about:*
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> Since the OP likes to hijack, I thought I would as well.
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Bears repeating.



Sallow said:


> You can "repeat" it all you want. Asymetrical war, for the most part, is a form of genocide. When people have no real plausible way to defend themselves for a much bigger and better equipped military..and they've done nothing aggressive to warrant in invasion.
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> That's a crime. And if it kills millions..that's a genocide.



I will and Turkey genocided the Armenians regardless of your futile attempts to minimize what they did. They did not war on the Armenians. They slaughtered them and removed them ENTIRELY from Anatolian Turkey. 

*That's GENOCIDE !*



Ropey said:


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*And these genocidal Turks are doing the Kurds in as I type this. This is why they won't stand to what they did.  They want to continue to repeat it on the Kurds*


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