# Save Energy - Paint Roofs and High-ways White!



## American Horse

Obama's green guru calls for white roofs - Telegraph

_"Professor Steven Chu, the US Energy Secretary, said the unusual proposal would mean homes in hot countries would save energy and money on air conditioning by deflecting the sun's rays. 

More pale surfaces could also slow global warming by reflecting heat into space rather than allowing it to be absorbed by dark surfaces where it is trapped by greenhouse gases and increases temperatures. 

The Nobel Prize-winning physicist said the US was not considering any large scale "geo-engineering" projects where science is used to reverse global warming, but was in favour of "white roofs everywhere". 

*He said lightening roofs and roads in urban environments would offset the global warming effects of all the cars in the world for 11 years.* 

"If you look at all the buildings and if you make the roofs white and if you make the pavement more of a concrete type of colour rather than a black type of colour and if you do that uniformally, that would be the equivalent of... reducing the carbon emissions due to all the cars in the world by 11 years &#8211; just taking them off the road for 11 years," he said." _

You might think that it's a joke that he's recommending roofs and highways be painted, but listen up; at least some who speak out for Obama are saying just that.

Never mind the impracticality of painting roofs period, the heat that is produced by the roof-plane escapes by convection from vents in the ridge and the eaves.  Present requirements of R-38 resistance to heat/cold penetration in building codes  have reached the point of diminishing returns for the cost of increasing the insulation and the dollars saved.  Only flat roofs where insulation is limited by it's thickness, or the space is not accessible would be only improveable by painting them white, and they are for the most part covered with a light colored aggregate mineral surface already.

How many highways are really black,  even "black-topped" or asphalt paved surfaces turn a medium grey in just a few years.  In subdivisions we "coat" our black-top drives to make them look black and fresh once again. Highways paved with concrete are a pretty light grey immediately.  

I for one question if this suggestion should even be given the light of day, especially in a public forum as is being reported.  

There is an advantage to letting these people talk their fool heads off; the American people are for the most part practical, and recognize when they are being led by fools.

_"In a wide-ranging discussion at the three-day Nobel laureate Symposium in London, the Professor described climate change as a "crisis situation"_

It almost seems that he went there unprepared with anything better, to pull that idea out of his hat at a symposium like this one.


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## Oddball

Just when I think that environmentalist whackos couldn't get more whacko...They once again push the envelope of kookiness.


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## Coloradomtnman

What a racist!


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## auditor0007

This idea might actually work if we painted all of our grass white too.


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## alan1

We should paint all the black people white.


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## Care4all

When i was in Bermuda on vacay a couple of years ago, all of the roofs were white, and all of the roofs were hip roofs, that had channels in them to collect rain water for their own personal use, dropped down in to a cistern in their lower level basements, then filtered and used as drinking water.

There is nothing wrong with thinking outside of the box imho.

As far as roofs being painted, not certain that can really be done, but no reason that future homes built in the south, could not be built with lighter roofs or built to recapture rain water for drinking....we are behind the times on these type of things.

And if an asphault can be developed that is not black or dark grey that can be topped on our roads, why not?  Why complain???

care


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## alan1

Care4all said:


> When i was in Bermuda on vacay a couple of years ago, all of the roofs were white, and all of the roofs were hip roofs, that had channels in them to collect rain water for their own personal use, dropped down in to a cistern in their lower level basements, then filtered and used as drinking water.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with thinking outside of the box imho.
> 
> As far as roofs being painted, not certain that can really be done, but no reason that future homes built in the south, could not be built with lighter roofs or built to recapture rain water for drinking....we are behind the times on these type of things.
> 
> And if an asphault can be developed that is not black or dark grey that can be topped on our roads, why not?  Why complain???
> 
> care


And you should be required to paint your car white to reduce your need for AC in your car.


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## Midnight Marauder

Care4all said:


> When i was in Bermuda on vacay a couple of years ago, all of the roofs were white, and all of the roofs were hip roofs, that had channels in them to collect rain water for their own personal use, dropped down in to a cistern in their lower level basements, then filtered and used as drinking water.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with thinking outside of the box imho.
> 
> As far as roofs being painted, not certain that can really be done, but no reason that future homes built in the south, could not be built with lighter roofs or built to recapture rain water for drinking....we are behind the times on these type of things.
> 
> And if an asphault can be developed that is not black or dark grey that can be topped on our roads, why not?  Why complain???
> 
> care


Latex paint maybe? Have you any idea of the TRILLIONS of gallons it would take to paint all the roofs white?

Who's gonna pay for it? Who's gonna get filthy rich off of it? What would be the ENVIRONMENTAL consequences?

Come on now....





> There is nothing wrong with thinking outside of the box imho.


There's also nothing wrong with saying something an Obama droid such as this guy said, is Stoopid!


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## Care4all

MountainMan said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> 
> When i was in Bermuda on vacay a couple of years ago, all of the roofs were white, and all of the roofs were hip roofs, that had channels in them to collect rain water for their own personal use, dropped down in to a cistern in their lower level basements, then filtered and used as drinking water.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with thinking outside of the box imho.
> 
> As far as roofs being painted, not certain that can really be done, but no reason that future homes built in the south, could not be built with lighter roofs or built to recapture rain water for drinking....we are behind the times on these type of things.
> 
> And if an asphault can be developed that is not black or dark grey that can be topped on our roads, why not?  Why complain???
> 
> care
> 
> 
> 
> And you should be required to paint your car white to reduce your need for AC in your car.
Click to expand...


  THAT'S next, can't you see the ''change''  on the horizon?

actually, people do this already.....i have read that more white cars are sold in the south than anywhere in America!  blah!  white cars are boring!  though they do keep your dashboard from melting and cracking...of which i owned 2 cars that did such, when i lived in florida!


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## pete

Midnight Marauder said:


> Who's gonna pay for it? Who's gonna get filthy rich off of it? What would be the ENVIRONMENTAL consequences?



Can you say job security


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## Midnight Marauder

pete said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who's gonna pay for it? Who's gonna get filthy rich off of it? What would be the ENVIRONMENTAL consequences?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you say job security
Click to expand...

Haha yeah, that would be one of The Obama's "green" jobs!

That and changing the oil in wind turbines twice a year!


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## alan1

Care4all said:


> MountainMan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> 
> When i was in Bermuda on vacay a couple of years ago, all of the roofs were white, and all of the roofs were hip roofs, that had channels in them to collect rain water for their own personal use, dropped down in to a cistern in their lower level basements, then filtered and used as drinking water.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with thinking outside of the box imho.
> 
> As far as roofs being painted, not certain that can really be done, but no reason that future homes built in the south, could not be built with lighter roofs or built to recapture rain water for drinking....we are behind the times on these type of things.
> 
> And if an asphault can be developed that is not black or dark grey that can be topped on our roads, why not?  Why complain???
> 
> care
> 
> 
> 
> And you should be required to paint your car white to reduce your need for AC in your car.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> THAT'S next, can't you see the ''change''  on the horizon?
> 
> actually, people do this already.....i have read that more white cars are sold in the south than anywhere in America!  blah!  white cars are boring!  though they do keep your dashboard from melting and cracking...of which i owned 2 cars that did such, when i lived in florida!
Click to expand...


You can get this car in any color you want, as long as it's white.


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## DiamondDave

But don't forget to add this too proper inflation of tires... well.. I guess Obama solved the energy problem


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## KittenKoder

Midnight Marauder said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> 
> When i was in Bermuda on vacay a couple of years ago, all of the roofs were white, and all of the roofs were hip roofs, that had channels in them to collect rain water for their own personal use, dropped down in to a cistern in their lower level basements, then filtered and used as drinking water.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with thinking outside of the box imho.
> 
> As far as roofs being painted, not certain that can really be done, but no reason that future homes built in the south, could not be built with lighter roofs or built to recapture rain water for drinking....we are behind the times on these type of things.
> 
> And if an asphault can be developed that is not black or dark grey that can be topped on our roads, why not?  Why complain???
> 
> care
> 
> 
> 
> Latex paint maybe? Have you any idea of the TRILLIONS of gallons it would take to paint all the roofs white?
> 
> Who's gonna pay for it? Who's gonna get filthy rich off of it? What would be the ENVIRONMENTAL consequences?
> 
> Come on now....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is nothing wrong with thinking outside of the box imho.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There's also nothing wrong with saying something an Obama droid such as this guy said, is Stoopid!
Click to expand...


Not to mention how much to KEEP it all white.


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## Care4all

Midnight Marauder said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> 
> When i was in Bermuda on vacay a couple of years ago, all of the roofs were white, and all of the roofs were hip roofs, that had channels in them to collect rain water for their own personal use, dropped down in to a cistern in their lower level basements, then filtered and used as drinking water.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with thinking outside of the box imho.
> 
> As far as roofs being painted, not certain that can really be done, but no reason that future homes built in the south, could not be built with lighter roofs or built to recapture rain water for drinking....we are behind the times on these type of things.
> 
> And if an asphault can be developed that is not black or dark grey that can be topped on our roads, why not?  Why complain???
> 
> care
> 
> 
> 
> Latex paint maybe? Have you any idea of the TRILLIONS of gallons it would take to paint all the roofs white?
> 
> Who's gonna pay for it? Who's gonna get filthy rich off of it? What would be the ENVIRONMENTAL consequences?
> 
> Come on now....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is nothing wrong with thinking outside of the box imho.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There's also nothing wrong with saying something an Obama droid such as this guy said, is Stoopid!
Click to expand...


AS I said, there is no reason why newer homes could not be built in a lighter color....all the older homes in florida have white roofs...but for some reason, they changed and started doing them darker?

there is no reason, if you are replacing your roof, not to do it in a lighter, reflective color is there?

i said painting over roofs was not feasible or realistic BUT......on new homes, no reason not to....

same with the roads, no reason an asphalt shouldn/t be developed in a lighter color to reflect the sun....that could be used when reasphalting the roads in need of repair is there?

is this all about obama and i am missing it somehow, thus the rejection from the right without thought or consideration???

fyi, i did NOT vote for him?

care


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## Midnight Marauder

Care4all said:


> AS I said, there is no reason why newer homes could not be built in a lighter color....


THAT is not what Obama's guy SAID or suggested. What he DID say and suggested isn't feasible. And it's stupid.





> is this all about obama and i am missing it somehow, thus the rejection from the right without thought or consideration???
> 
> fyi, i did NOT vote for him?
> 
> care


I am not "from the right" either, FYI. I just know stupid shit when I read it.


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## Sinatra

American Horse said:


> Obama's green guru calls for white roofs - Telegraph
> 
> _"Professor Steven Chu, the US Energy Secretary, said the unusual proposal would mean homes in hot countries would save energy and money on air conditioning by deflecting the sun's rays.
> 
> More pale surfaces could also slow global warming by reflecting heat into space rather than allowing it to be absorbed by dark surfaces where it is trapped by greenhouse gases and increases temperatures.
> 
> The Nobel Prize-winning physicist said the US was not considering any large scale "geo-engineering" projects where science is used to reverse global warming, but was in favour of "white roofs everywhere".
> 
> *He said lightening roofs and roads in urban environments would offset the global warming effects of all the cars in the world for 11 years.*
> 
> "If you look at all the buildings and if you make the roofs white and if you make the pavement more of a concrete type of colour rather than a black type of colour and if you do that uniformally, that would be the equivalent of... reducing the carbon emissions due to all the cars in the world by 11 years  just taking them off the road for 11 years," he said." _
> 
> You might think that it's a joke that he's recommending roofs and highways be painted, but listen up; at least some who speak out for Obama are saying just that.
> 
> Never mind the impracticality of painting roofs period, the heat that is produced by the roof-plane escapes by convection from vents in the ridge and the eaves.  Present requirements of R-38 resistance to heat/cold penetration in building codes  have reached the point of diminishing returns for the cost of increasing the insulation and the dollars saved.  Only flat roofs where insulation is limited by it's thickness, or the space is not accessible would be only improveable by painting them white, and they are for the most part covered with a light colored aggregate mineral surface already.
> 
> How many highways are really black,  even "black-topped" or asphalt paved sufaces turn a medium grey in just a few years.  In subdivisions we "coat" our black-top drives to make them look black and fresh once again. Highways paved with concrete are a pretty light grey immediately.
> 
> I for one question if this suggestion should even be given the light of day, especially in a public forum as is being reported.
> 
> There is an advantage to letting these people talk their fool heads off; the American people are for the most part practical, and recognize when they are being led by fools.
> 
> _"In a wide-ranging discussion at the three-day Nobel laureate Symposium in London, the Professor described climate change as a "crisis situation"_
> 
> It almost seems that he went there unprepared with anything better, to pull that idea out of his hat at a symposium like this one.




As obviously stupid as this idea is, it is frightening to then also know that it is just these kinds of people who are running our government...


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## sarahgop

are  black people causing  global warming?


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## Sinatra

sarahgop said:


> are  black people causing  global warming?


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## Oddball

sarahgop said:


> are  black people causing  global warming?


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## Care4all

beautiful roof system!

Bermuda Roof Home

This Roof Resists Hurricanes, Collects Water | Safety & Prevention | This Old House - 1

all ideas begin BIG, but are usually brought down to reality....

so, yes, grandios is the idea to paint all the roofs, and unfeasible....but on newer roofs being built or replaced, it is not!


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## Midnight Marauder

Care4all said:


> so, yes, grandios is the idea to paint all the roofs, and unfeasible....but on newer roofs being built or replaced, it is not!


No one said it wasn't. Your strawman fails.

Nice to see you finally get the clue though, and admit Obama's environut who said this speaks foolishly. At least in this case. Now you should really be fearing that he's in a position of power in our government.


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## Care4all

sarahgop said:


> are  black people causing  global warming?



wow!  that's pretty much all I have to say about this comment of yours, wow!


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## Care4all

Midnight Marauder said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> 
> so, yes, grandios is the idea to paint all the roofs, and unfeasible....but on newer roofs being built or replaced, it is not!
> 
> 
> 
> No one said it wasn't. Your strawman fails.
> 
> Nice to see you finally get the clue though, and admit Obama's environut who said this speaks foolishly. At least in this case. Now you should really be fearing that he's in a position of power in our government.
Click to expand...

Why should I be afraid of him?  It is congress that would have to do something, not this guy?  I don't get frightened easily....I am pretty laid back....no need to die a thousand deaths from fright, I plan on dying once only.


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## alan1

Care4all said:


> sarahgop said:
> 
> 
> 
> are  black people causing  global warming?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wow!  that's pretty much all I have to say about this comment of yours, wow!
Click to expand...


You must have missed my comment about painting all the black people white.


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## Midnight Marauder

Care4all said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> 
> so, yes, grandios is the idea to paint all the roofs, and unfeasible....but on newer roofs being built or replaced, it is not!
> 
> 
> 
> No one said it wasn't. Your strawman fails.
> 
> Nice to see you finally get the clue though, and admit Obama's environut who said this speaks foolishly. At least in this case. Now you should really be fearing that he's in a position of power in our government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why should I be afraid of him?  It is congress that would have to do something, not this guy?  I don't get frightened easily....I am pretty laid back....no need to die a thousand deaths from fright, I plan on dying once only.
Click to expand...

Me too!

"Fear" not really the right word. How about disappointed. Obama was supposed to be better than this. This brainiac here, now you can see how the NYC flyover happened. Obama's surrounded himself with some real dumbasses.

Oh, by the way:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KipXv7Nrt1o&feature=channel_page]YouTube - big old jet airliner[/ame]


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## Care4all

MountainMan said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sarahgop said:
> 
> 
> 
> are  black people causing  global warming?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wow!  that's pretty much all I have to say about this comment of yours, wow!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You must have missed my comment about painting all the black people white.
Click to expand...


I saw it MM...  but one comment from me on it is enough.

I realize it may be teasing and joking, but it is in poor taste, in my humble opinion.

Care


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## Midnight Marauder

See, I even have a problem with this guy's theory. You have an atmosphere that is allegedly heating the planet, which is in turn allegedly heating the oceans, allegedly causing glaciers to melt, and he wants to reflect the sun's rays back into the atmosphere?

The theory being, that homes and buildings with white roofs would use less fossil fuels to air condition? To heat?

Solar panels on every roof would sort of fuck with this plan, would they not?

It's completely nonsensical.


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## alan1

Care4all said:


> MountainMan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> 
> wow!  that's pretty much all I have to say about this comment of yours, wow!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You must have missed my comment about painting all the black people white.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I saw it MM...  but one comment from me on it is enough.
> 
> I realize it may be teasing and joking, but it is in poor taste, in my humble opinion.
> 
> Care
Click to expand...


I was merely pointing out how absurd the whole idea of painting things white is and thinking that will somehow change the planets temperature.


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## edthecynic

Midnight Marauder said:


> See, I even have a problem with this guy's theory. You have an atmosphere that is allegedly heating the planet, which is in turn allegedly heating the oceans, allegedly causing glaciers to melt, and he wants to reflect the sun's rays back into the atmosphere?



Hehehe LimpBoy "logic."



> May 27, 2009
> RUSH:    Here's the real question about this.  I need a scientist to answer this for me.  I understand how clouds at altitude can help reflect the heat.  But I want to know how something white on the surface of the planet, where does that reflected heat go? * If the road is white, and the heat reflects, aren't you going to boil* if you happen to be walking on it in the summertime?  Where does this reflected heat go?  Are we being told here that reflected heat is not damaging at all but direct heat is? * It seems to me if we had global warming wouldn't we want dark roofs to absorb the heat?*  Yeah, it may be cooling your house a little bit, but This is all such gobbledygook.



What a moron! ROFLMAO


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## Midnight Marauder

edthecynic said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> 
> See, I even have a problem with this guy's theory. You have an atmosphere that is allegedly heating the planet, which is in turn allegedly heating the oceans, allegedly causing glaciers to melt, and he wants to reflect the sun's rays back into the atmosphere?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hehehe LimpBoy "logic."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> May 27, 2009
> RUSH:    Here's the real question about this.  I need a scientist to answer this for me.  I understand how clouds at altitude can help reflect the heat.  But I want to know how something white on the surface of the planet, where does that reflected heat go? * If the road is white, and the heat reflects, aren't you going to boil* if you happen to be walking on it in the summertime?  Where does this reflected heat go?  Are we being told here that reflected heat is not damaging at all but direct heat is? * It seems to me if we had global warming wouldn't we want dark roofs to absorb the heat?*  Yeah, it may be cooling your house a little bit, but This is all such gobbledygook.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a moron! ROFLMAO
Click to expand...



At least he said, "I need a scientist to answer this for me" and on that, I agree!

Now, you're not actually defending such an idiotic statement by one of Obama's enviroczars, are you? You really think it's a good idea to paint all roofs white?


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## edthecynic

Midnight Marauder said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> 
> See, I even have a problem with this guy's theory. You have an atmosphere that is allegedly heating the planet, which is in turn allegedly heating the oceans, allegedly causing glaciers to melt, and he wants to reflect the sun's rays back into the atmosphere?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hehehe LimpBoy "logic."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> May 27, 2009
> RUSH:    Here's the real question about this.  I need a scientist to answer this for me.  I understand how clouds at altitude can help reflect the heat.  But I want to know how something white on the surface of the planet, where does that reflected heat go? * If the road is white, and the heat reflects, aren't you going to boil* if you happen to be walking on it in the summertime?  Where does this reflected heat go?  Are we being told here that reflected heat is not damaging at all but direct heat is? * It seems to me if we had global warming wouldn't we want dark roofs to absorb the heat?*  Yeah, it may be cooling your house a little bit, but&#8230; This is all such gobbledygook.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a moron! ROFLMAO
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> At least he said, "I need a scientist to answer this for me" and on that, I agree!
> 
> Now, you're not actually defending such an idiotic statement by one of Obama's enviroczars, are you? You really think it's a good idea to paint all roofs white?
Click to expand...


Well, we agree you and LimpBoy need a scientist, even though only a very basic knowledge in science is all that is needed.

But LimpBoy's "reasoning" is infinitely more idiotic!!! And even after I highlighted the stupidity of Limpboy's "logic" you still couldn't figure it out.

How many people do you know who boiled walking on WHITE snow?
While it may be questionable how much energy will be saved and global temp might be reduced, LimpBoy is typically bass ackwards. LOL


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## Oddball

edthecynic said:


> How many people do you know who boiled walking on WHITE snow?
> While it may be questionable how much energy will be saved and global temp might be reduced, LimpBoy is typically bass ackwards. LOL



I know plenty of people who've had 2nd degree sunburn, under overcast skies no less, by the radiation reflected and intensified by the snow while skiing.


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## edthecynic

edthecynic said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hehehe LimpBoy "logic."
> 
> 
> 
> What a moron! ROFLMAO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least he said, "I need a scientist to answer this for me" and on that, I agree!
> 
> Now, you're not actually defending such an idiotic statement by one of Obama's enviroczars, are you? You really think it's a good idea to paint all roofs white?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, we agree you and LimpBoy need a scientist, even though only a very basic knowledge in science is all that is needed.
> 
> But LimpBoy's "reasoning" is infinitely more idiotic!!! And even after I highlighted the stupidity of Limpboy's "logic" you still couldn't figure it out.
> 
> How many people do you know who boiled walking on WHITE snow?
> While it may be questionable how much energy will be saved and global temp might be reduced, LimpBoy is typically bass ackwards. LOL
Click to expand...


Apparently Elvis is stupid enough to agree with LimpBoy and thinks dark roofs would reduce global warming. He just neg reped me.  LOL What a moron!

The rays of the sun don't become heat until they ABSORBED and dark colors absorb the most heat. So reflecting the suns rays before they are converted into heat will slow global warming. 

My model for the ideal president, Ben Franklin, did an experiment to prove this back in the 1700s



> May 27, 2009
> RUSH:     It seems to me if we had global warming *wouldn't we want dark roofs to absorb the heat?*


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## edthecynic

Dude said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many people do you know who boiled walking on WHITE snow?
> While it may be questionable how much energy will be saved and global temp might be reduced, LimpBoy is typically bass ackwards. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know plenty of people who've had 2nd degree sunburn, under overcast skies no less, by the radiation reflected and intensified by the snow while skiing.
Click to expand...


That's because their pink skin absorbed the sun's rays and converted them to heat.


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## Oddball

edthecynic said:


> Dude said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's because their pink skin absorbed the sun's rays and converted them to heat.
> 
> 
> 
> Nonetheless, just because Limpbag got the *wrong kind* of burn, doesn't mean that he wasn't at least somewhat on the right track.
> 
> That said, the whole idea is stupid for a lot more practical reasons, many listed right here, that have nothing to do with what some radio windbag has to say to keep his mesmerized listeners tuned in.
Click to expand...


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## American Horse

Care4all said:


> .....
> is this all about obama and i am missing it somehow, thus the rejection from the right without thought or consideration???
> .....
> 
> care



Care, ....did you read the OP?  Please do.  Does a stupid idea have to be Obama's to be pointed out as being stupid?  I pointed out how little would be affected in both the cases of roofs and highways.

IE most heat on roofs adding to air conditioning cost is already abated by insulation to the point of diminishing returns of investment.  High ways are seldom black.  Black is the most absorbent color.  *Most highways, roads, and streets are not black.*  After a season the black turns to grey, after two seasons a light gray 

I personally am not a scientist, but I dont think there is any way doing all that would have anywhere near the affect the secretary believes it will.  Just as importantly though, perception is reality; the American public is too practical to see this as a serious option.  So how will it be promoted?  Big tax credits for roof painting?  

How about the cost of paint, the repainting, the physical process of painting, never mind aesthetics:  home-owners enjoy having their roof matching their houses color scheme.


----------



## KittenKoder

Here's a thought, reflect all that heat out of the houses and back into the atmosphere, aren't the GHGs suppose to hold it in anyway ... thus resulting in raising the global temp anyway?


----------



## edthecynic

KittenKoder said:


> Here's a thought, reflect all that heat out of the houses and back into the atmosphere, aren't the GHGs suppose to hold it in anyway ... thus resulting in raising the global temp anyway?



GHGs hold HEAT not the rays of the sun. Reflected rays do not become heat because they were not absorbed and thus they were not converted to heat that can be held by GHGs and therefore pass through the GHGs and out to space the same way they passed through the GHGs on the way in.


----------



## dilloduck

The whole idea is stupid as shit-------COVER THE WORLD IN TIN FOIL

solves all kinds of problems and is about as realistic as fucking white paint.

We're so fucking screwed.


----------



## KittenKoder

dilloduck said:


> The whole idea is stupid as shit-------COVER THE WORLD IN TIN FOIL
> 
> solves all kinds of problems and is about as realistic as fucking white paint.
> 
> We're so fucking screwed.



 Yep ...


----------



## Zoom-boing

Care4all said:


> When i was in Bermuda on vacay a couple of years ago, all of the roofs were white, and all of the roofs were hip roofs, *that had channels in them to collect rain water *for their own personal use, dropped down in to a cistern in their lower level basements, then filtered and used as drinking water.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with thinking outside of the box imho.
> 
> As far as roofs being painted, not certain that can really be done, but no reason that future homes built in the south, could not be built with lighter roofs or built to recapture rain water for drinking....we are behind the times on these type of things.
> 
> And if an asphault can be developed that is not black or dark grey that can be topped on our roads, why not?  Why complain???
> 
> care



Rain barrels are a great idea for capturing the rain water to water hanging baskets and other plants in the summer.  We meant to make one last year and never got around to it.  Thanks for a reminder!


----------



## Zoom-boing

Here Barry, you go first and show us how it's done.


----------



## dilloduck

Zoom-boing said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> 
> When i was in Bermuda on vacay a couple of years ago, all of the roofs were white, and all of the roofs were hip roofs, *that had channels in them to collect rain water *for their own personal use, dropped down in to a cistern in their lower level basements, then filtered and used as drinking water.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with thinking outside of the box imho.
> 
> As far as roofs being painted, not certain that can really be done, but no reason that future homes built in the south, could not be built with lighter roofs or built to recapture rain water for drinking....we are behind the times on these type of things.
> 
> And if an asphault can be developed that is not black or dark grey that can be topped on our roads, why not?  Why complain???
> 
> care
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rain barrels are a great idea for capturing the rain water to water hanging baskets and other plants in the summer.  We meant to make one last year and never got around to it.  Thanks for a reminder!
Click to expand...


I'm sorry but that's hording water---unfair to your fellow man


----------



## Zoom-boing

dilloduck said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> 
> When i was in Bermuda on vacay a couple of years ago, all of the roofs were white, and all of the roofs were hip roofs, *that had channels in them to collect rain water *for their own personal use, dropped down in to a cistern in their lower level basements, then filtered and used as drinking water.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with thinking outside of the box imho.
> 
> As far as roofs being painted, not certain that can really be done, but no reason that future homes built in the south, could not be built with lighter roofs or built to recapture rain water for drinking....we are behind the times on these type of things.
> 
> And if an asphault can be developed that is not black or dark grey that can be topped on our roads, why not?  Why complain???
> 
> care
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rain barrels are a great idea for capturing the rain water to water hanging baskets and other plants in the summer.  We meant to make one last year and never got around to it.  Thanks for a reminder!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm sorry but that's hording water---unfair to your fellow man
Click to expand...


Oh I was planning on divvying it up amongst the neighbors so we could all have a fair share of the rain water.  S'ok -- I'll foot the bill for the material for the rain barrel, I'll collect it, and I'll divvy it up as others sit on their ass and sip an icy cold one.  Sound about right?


----------



## dilloduck

Zoom-boing said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rain barrels are a great idea for capturing the rain water to water hanging baskets and other plants in the summer.  We meant to make one last year and never got around to it.  Thanks for a reminder!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry but that's hording water---unfair to your fellow man
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh I was planning on divvying it up amongst the neighbors so we could all have a fair share of the rain water.  S'ok -- I'll foot the bill for the material for the rain barrel, I'll collect it, and I'll divvy it up as others sit on their ass and sip an icy cold one.  Sound about right?
Click to expand...


ok dammit----I guess it's ok if you put it that way.  Paint everyones house white frist tho please


----------



## Midnight Marauder

edthecynic said:


> The rays of the sun don't become heat until they ABSORBED and dark colors absorb the most heat. So reflecting the suns rays before they are converted into heat will slow global warming.


You have dodged several questions about this, not the least of which, if we all have solar panels on our roofs, doesn't that sort of fuck the white roof theory?

Stop trying to defend these idiots and have some intellectual honesty. Suggesting we paint all roofs white is toweringly, titanically stupid and if one of the Boooosh people had suggested it you would be all over it like a hobo on a bologna sandwich.

It's stupid and counter productive. Have you any idea how much pollution is generated making paint?

Take off your Obama Jesus glasses.


----------



## Oddball

Midnight Marauder said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The rays of the sun don't become heat until they ABSORBED and dark colors absorb the most heat. So reflecting the suns rays before they are converted into heat will slow global warming.
> 
> 
> 
> You have dodged several questions about this, not the least of which, if we all have solar panels on our roofs, doesn't that sort of fuck the white roof theory?
> 
> Stop trying to defend these idiots and have some intellectual honesty. Suggesting we paint all roofs white is toweringly, titanically stupid and if one of the Boooosh people had suggested it you would be all over it like a hobo on a bologna sandwich.
> 
> It's stupid and counter productive. Have you any idea how much pollution is generated making paint?
> 
> Take off your Obama Jesus glasses.
Click to expand...


*You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.*


----------



## dilloduck

took care of it for ya--good job marauder


----------



## Zoom-boing

dilloduck said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry but that's hording water---unfair to your fellow man
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh I was planning on divvying it up amongst the neighbors so we could all have a fair share of the rain water.  S'ok -- I'll foot the bill for the material for the rain barrel, I'll collect it, and I'll divvy it up as others sit on their ass and sip an icy cold one.  Sound about right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ok dammit----I guess it's ok if you put it that way.  Paint everyones house white frist tho please
Click to expand...


Ok, but Barry has to go first.  You know to show us the _right way_ to do it.  Cause I sure wouldn't want to screw up something as phenomenal as a roof paint job!


----------



## dilloduck

Zoom-boing said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh I was planning on divvying it up amongst the neighbors so we could all have a fair share of the rain water.  S'ok -- I'll foot the bill for the material for the rain barrel, I'll collect it, and I'll divvy it up as others sit on their ass and sip an icy cold one.  Sound about right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ok dammit----I guess it's ok if you put it that way.  Paint everyones house white frist tho please
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, but Barry has to go first.  You know to show us the _right way_ to do it.  Cause I sure wouldn't want to screw up something as phenomenal as a roof paint job!
Click to expand...


no fair--his house is already white


----------



## Oddball

dilloduck said:


> no fair--his house is already white


Umm...

No.....

"Mulatto House" just doesn't have the same ring to it.


----------



## Avatar4321

edthecynic said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> 
> See, I even have a problem with this guy's theory. You have an atmosphere that is allegedly heating the planet, which is in turn allegedly heating the oceans, allegedly causing glaciers to melt, and he wants to reflect the sun's rays back into the atmosphere?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hehehe LimpBoy "logic."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> May 27, 2009
> RUSH:    Here's the real question about this.  I need a scientist to answer this for me.  I understand how clouds at altitude can help reflect the heat.  But I want to know how something white on the surface of the planet, where does that reflected heat go? * If the road is white, and the heat reflects, aren't you going to boil* if you happen to be walking on it in the summertime?  Where does this reflected heat go?  Are we being told here that reflected heat is not damaging at all but direct heat is? * It seems to me if we had global warming wouldn't we want dark roofs to absorb the heat?*  Yeah, it may be cooling your house a little bit, but&#8230; This is all such gobbledygook.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a moron! ROFLMAO
Click to expand...


I agree that you are accurately describing yourself here.

Rush Limbaugh has nothing to do with this thread. Obviously, you are unable to come up with any sort of cognizant argument to support your ridiculous positions if you have to start with attacking Rush in the thread.

And Rush's "logic" is faulty because he is using the premises created by the global warming nuts like yourself. It's faulty because your reasoning is stupid and taking any of your assertions to their logical conclusion is going to come up with something completely absurd. You see, that's what Rush does, he demonstrates the absurdity of your viewpoints by taking them to their conclusion.

Now, back to the topic on hand. This is completely ridiculous. It's ideas like this one that makes it obvious that global warming is a hoax believed by the gullible. 

Oh, and while im thinking about it I have to respond to this:



> How many people do you know who boiled walking on WHITE snow?



This has to be the dumbest thing Ive ever seen anyone say. And I've read Chris's posts. Of course no ones ever been boiled by walking on white snow. Because snow cannot exist above freezing tempature you freaking idiot. The color of the snow is irrelevant. You've never been boiled walking on black or yellow snow either.

But Im willing to bet youd get pretty damn hot on a white sun.

Obviously you are the smart guy and Rush is just a moron. right...


----------



## oreo

Care4all said:


> When i was in Bermuda on vacay a couple of years ago, all of the roofs were white, and all of the roofs were hip roofs, that had channels in them to collect rain water for their own personal use, dropped down in to a cistern in their lower level basements, then filtered and used as drinking water.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with thinking outside of the box imho.
> 
> As far as roofs being painted, not certain that can really be done, but no reason that future homes built in the south, could not be built with lighter roofs or built to recapture rain water for drinking....we are behind the times on these type of things.
> 
> And if an asphault can be developed that is not black or dark grey that can be topped on our roads, why not?  Why complain???
> 
> care




Well--again building codes reflect that R38 insulation be put into the attic--R-38 is the equivalent of 38 single pane windows.  Therefore, there is no benefit of painting your roof white--your air-conditioning bill will be the same.

The roads?  Going from black-top to white-top?  Would reflect heat back into the air--not absorb it into the road.


----------



## DavidS

Somehow, someway, there's a Bill Clinton joke hidden in this message. I don't know how, but there is.


----------



## edthecynic

Midnight Marauder said:


> See, I even have a problem with this guy's theory. *You have an atmosphere that is allegedly heating the planet, which is in turn allegedly heating the oceans, allegedly causing glaciers to melt, and he wants to reflect the sun's rays back into the atmosphere?*
> 
> The theory being, that homes and buildings with white roofs would use less fossil fuels to air condition? To heat?
> 
> Solar panels on every roof would sort of fuck with this plan, would they not?
> 
> It's completely nonsensical.





Midnight Marauder said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The rays of the sun don't become heat until they ABSORBED and dark colors absorb the most heat. So reflecting the suns rays before they are converted into heat will slow global warming.
> 
> 
> 
> You have dodged several questions about this, not the least of which,* if we all have solar panels on our roofs*, doesn't that sort of fuck the white roof theory?
> 
> Stop trying to defend these idiots and have some intellectual honesty. Suggesting we paint all roofs white is toweringly, titanically stupid and if one of the Boooosh people had suggested it you would be all over it like a hobo on a bologna sandwich.
Click to expand...


I haven't dodged anything, I pointed out the stupidity of thinking that reflecting the sun's rays back into space will further warm the planet!!! The suns rays have to be converted to heat and if they are reflected back into space they are not being converted into heat. It has nothing to do with air conditioning or fossil fuels, that's just your red herring. The more of the sun's rays that are reflected the less rays get converted to heat and less heat is generated globally. It's pretty obvious since we don't use fossil fuel to air condition the roads.

As far as solar panels go, everybody does not have them on their roofs and there certainly are no solar panels on the roads. So that's just more stupidity on your part.

You just want to whine about President Obama and you don't care how scientifically ignorant it makes you look. Had Bush or Reagan said the same thing you would be calling it brilliant.


----------



## editec

I have no idea what the net effect would be, but certainly white surfaces reflect more light (and hence create less heat) than darker surfaces will.


----------



## edthecynic

Avatar4321 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> 
> See, I even have a problem with this guy's theory. You have an atmosphere that is allegedly heating the planet, which is in turn allegedly heating the oceans, allegedly causing glaciers to melt, and he wants to reflect the sun's rays back into the atmosphere?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hehehe LimpBoy "logic."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> May 27, 2009
> RUSH: Here's the real question about this. I need a scientist to answer this for me. I understand how clouds at altitude can help reflect the heat. But I want to know how something white on the surface of the planet, *where does that reflected heat go? If the road is white, and the heat reflects, aren't you going to boil if you happen to be walking on it in the summertime? Where does this reflected heat go?* Are we being told here that *reflected heat* is not damaging at all but direct heat is? It seems to me if we had global warming wouldn't we want dark roofs to absorb the heat? Yeah, it may be cooling your house a little bit, but This is all such gobbledygook.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a moron! ROFLMAO
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree that you are accurately describing yourself here.
> 
> Rush Limbaugh has nothing to do with this thread. Obviously, you are unable to come up with any sort of cognizant argument to support your ridiculous positions if you have to start with attacking Rush in the thread.
> 
> And *Rush's "logic" is faulty* because he is using the premises created by the global warming nuts like yourself. It's faulty because your reasoning is stupid and taking any of your assertions to their logical conclusion is going to come up with something completely absurd. You see, that's what Rush does, he demonstrates the absurdity of your viewpoints by taking them to their conclusion.
> 
> Now, back to the topic on hand. This is completely ridiculous. It's ideas like this one that makes it obvious that global warming is a hoax believed by the gullible.
> 
> Oh, and while im thinking about it I have to respond to this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many people do you know who boiled walking on WHITE snow?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This has to be the dumbest thing Ive ever seen anyone say. And I've read Chris's posts. Of course no ones ever been boiled by walking on white snow. Because snow cannot exist above freezing tempature you freaking idiot. The color of the snow is irrelevant. You've never been boiled walking on black or yellow snow either.
> 
> But Im willing to bet youd get pretty damn hot on a white sun.
> 
> Obviously you are the smart guy and Rush is just a moron. right...
Click to expand...


LimpBoy has everything to do with this thread, you morons are stupidly parroting his rationalizations.

And his "logic" is flawed because it is not HEAT that is reflected!!!!!!!! 
That is very very basic science. LimpBoy is not taking anything to its conclusion because he is using his OWN stupid premiss that white reflects HEAT. No climatologist ever said white reflects heat, not even the deniers. Only LimpBoy and his ditto-dopers are stupid enough not to know white reflects the rays of the sun, ONLY the rays that are NOT reflected are converted to heat.

Now what I did with the boiling on white snow was illustrate LimpBoy's absurdity by being absurd, LimpBoy's tactic turned against him. But since you are too stupid to know white does not reflect heat, it went completely over your head.  ROFLMAO


----------



## edthecynic

oreo said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> 
> When i was in Bermuda on vacay a couple of years ago, all of the roofs were white, and all of the roofs were hip roofs, that had channels in them to collect rain water for their own personal use, dropped down in to a cistern in their lower level basements, then filtered and used as drinking water.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with thinking outside of the box imho.
> 
> As far as roofs being painted, not certain that can really be done, but no reason that future homes built in the south, could not be built with lighter roofs or built to recapture rain water for drinking....we are behind the times on these type of things.
> 
> And if an asphault can be developed that is not black or dark grey that can be topped on our roads, why not?  Why complain???
> 
> care
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well--again building codes reflect that R38 insulation be put into the attic--R-38 is the equivalent of 38 single pane windows.  Therefore, there is no benefit of painting your roof white--your air-conditioning bill will be the same.
> 
> The roads? * Going from black-top to white-top?  Would reflect heat back into the air-*-not absorb it into the road.
Click to expand...


Yet another moron too stupid to know white does not reflect HEAT simply because LimpBoy told him it does!!! ROFLMAO LMAO LMAO


----------



## Midnight Marauder

edthecynic said:


> The rays of the sun don't become heat until they ABSORBED and dark colors absorb the most heat. So reflecting the suns rays before they are converted into heat will slow global warming.
> 
> I haven't dodged anything, I pointed out the stupidity of thinking that reflecting the sun's rays back into space will further warm the planet!!! The suns rays have to be converted to heat and if they are reflected back into space they are not being converted into heat. It has nothing to do with air conditioning or fossil fuels, that's just your red herring. The more of the sun's rays that are reflected the less rays get converted to heat and less heat is generated globally. It's pretty obvious since we don't use fossil fuel to air condition the roads.
> 
> As far as solar panels go, everybody does not have them on their roofs and there certainly are no solar panels on the roads. So that's just more stupidity on your part.
> 
> You just want to whine about President Obama and you don't care how scientifically ignorant it makes you look. Had Bush or Reagan said the same thing you would be calling it brilliant.


I suppose you don't understand the theory of global warming and how the molecules in the air absorb sunlight and convert it into heat. And yes, you continue to cherry-pick points you'll respond to, while dodging others which you cannot respond to. You also seem to make the ASSumption that I listen to Limbaugh. I do not.

I simply understand what you do not -- that this is really stupid and if a Boooosh appointee had said it, you would be all over it letting the world know how stupid it really is.

Partisan hacks such as yourself  blindly, instinctively rush in to defend The Obama, with willing suspension of intellect. Just like any science fiction moviegoer. Rooting for the hero and enjoying the show is much more important to you than the facts and the science are.

Your willing ignorance is surpassed only by your dishonesty.


----------



## Care4all

editec said:


> I have no idea what the net effect would be, but certainly white surfaces reflect more light (and hence create less heat) than darker surfaces will.



Absolutely correct, editec.


----------



## editec

> MM retorts


 


> I suppose you don't understand the theory of global warming and how the molecules in the air absorb sunlight and convert it into heat.


 
I think you suppose incorrectly about what Edthecynic understands and does not understand

And yes, reflected light headed back into space (some of it, at least) will encounter molecules of some types of greenhouse gases which will be absorbed and converted to heat, undoubtably.

But the fact is that* the more reflected light there is heading back into space, the less of that light will be converted into heat.*

_That_ is not subject to dispute by anyone who understands basic science.

Actually reflecting light is one of the reasons that losing the ice caps will accelearte global warming, isn't it?

Because the ice and snow of those caps reflect more light back into space than the darker land mass or even the water (at the north pole) which exists under those caps.

If this is still confusing you I invite you to test it by standing on a two lane blacktop highway on a sunny summer day and then stand on a concrete highway on that same day.

I promise you the two land blacktop highway will be much much hotter than the lighter colored concrete highway.


----------



## Care4all

oreo said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> 
> When i was in Bermuda on vacay a couple of years ago, all of the roofs were white, and all of the roofs were hip roofs, that had channels in them to collect rain water for their own personal use, dropped down in to a cistern in their lower level basements, then filtered and used as drinking water.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with thinking outside of the box imho.
> 
> As far as roofs being painted, not certain that can really be done, but no reason that future homes built in the south, could not be built with lighter roofs or built to recapture rain water for drinking....we are behind the times on these type of things.
> 
> And if an asphault can be developed that is not black or dark grey that can be topped on our roads, why not?  Why complain???
> 
> care
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well--again building codes reflect that R38 insulation be put into the attic--R-38 is the equivalent of 38 single pane windows.  Therefore, there is no benefit of painting your roof white--your air-conditioning bill will be the same.
> 
> The roads?  Going from black-top to white-top?  Would reflect heat back into the air--not absorb it into the road.
Click to expand...


oh gees oreo, you are uninformed on this topic....why don't you do some of your own reading up on this before jumping on the i hate obama wagon, without knowing the facts about this....?

Heat is not reflected back in to the atmosphere, light is reflected back in to the atmosphere without converting in to HEAT.

White roofed homes are KNOWN to keep your house cooler....look at Bermuda and their purposely made white roof system.....people knew this 400 years ago when their roofs were built...yet you now, try to change the science out there to fit your own ill logic?

White reflects light, black absorbs light and converts it to heat....i learned this 30 years ago in school, didn't you?

care


----------



## Old Rocks

Midnight Marauder said:


> pete said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who's gonna pay for it? Who's gonna get filthy rich off of it? What would be the ENVIRONMENTAL consequences?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you say job security
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha yeah, that would be one of The Obama's "green" jobs!
> 
> That and changing the oil in wind turbines twice a year!
Click to expand...


Damn, what an idiot. Oil, particularly the type used in gearboxes is easily recycled.

As for white roofs, there is a product on the market called Snow Roof. Not only makes your roof white, but extends the life of an older roof by many years, and seals it against rain at the same time.


----------



## Old Rocks

Midnight Marauder said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The rays of the sun don't become heat until they ABSORBED and dark colors absorb the most heat. So reflecting the suns rays before they are converted into heat will slow global warming.
> 
> I haven't dodged anything, I pointed out the stupidity of thinking that reflecting the sun's rays back into space will further warm the planet!!! The suns rays have to be converted to heat and if they are reflected back into space they are not being converted into heat. It has nothing to do with air conditioning or fossil fuels, that's just your red herring. The more of the sun's rays that are reflected the less rays get converted to heat and less heat is generated globally. It's pretty obvious since we don't use fossil fuel to air condition the roads.
> 
> As far as solar panels go, everybody does not have them on their roofs and there certainly are no solar panels on the roads. So that's just more stupidity on your part.
> 
> You just want to whine about President Obama and you don't care how scientifically ignorant it makes you look. Had Bush or Reagan said the same thing you would be calling it brilliant.
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose you don't understand the theory of global warming and how the molecules in the air absorb sunlight and convert it into heat. And yes, you continue to cherry-pick points you'll respond to, while dodging others which you cannot respond to. You also seem to make the ASSumption that I listen to Limbaugh. I do not.
> 
> I simply understand what you do not -- that this is really stupid and if a Boooosh appointee had said it, you would be all over it letting the world know how stupid it really is.
> 
> Partisan hacks such as yourself  blindly, instinctively rush in to defend The Obama, with willing suspension of intellect. Just like any science fiction moviegoer. Rooting for the hero and enjoying the show is much more important to you than the facts and the science are.
> 
> Your willing ignorance is surpassed only by your dishonesty.
Click to expand...


Good lord. Senility rampant, indeed. GHGs absorb a percentage of the energy that is reflected. A much smaller percentage than a black surface absorbs. Simple science that any third grader can understand.


----------



## Ravi

I don't know about painting roads but white rooves save lots of energy in hot climates...Floridians certainly know this.


----------



## jgbkab

Ravi said:


> I don't know about painting roads but white rooves save lots of energy in hot climates...Floridians certainly know this.



All you have to do is look at the roads and highways in the summertime. You can see the heat radiating from the road on surface streets whereas you don't see it on the interstates that are made out of some white material (here in the SE).


----------



## editec

So its agreed then?

Henceforth debating basic laws of physics is probably not worth our time?

Happy to hear it.


----------



## WillowTree

sarahgop said:


> are  black people causing  global warming?



yes! their skin does not deflect the sun well, and they fart way too much!


----------



## WillowTree

Ravi said:


> I don't know about painting roads but white rooves save lots of energy in hot climates...Floridians certainly know this.






no baby,, planting CO2 eating trees produces cool.


----------



## Ravi

editec said:


> So its agreed then?
> 
> Henceforth debating basic laws of physics is probably not worth our time?
> 
> Happy to hear it.


Pretty much. If the Obama administration said that brushing your teeth reduces cavities the rightwingers would stop brushing their teeth.


----------



## Care4all

there are all kinds of products out there already that does this....?  what is being disputed on it and WHY?

google is your friend guys and gals....gaining knowledge is good imo.



> A revolutionary new way to insulate, repair, maintain & preserve roof & wall systems, both exterior & interior.
> 
> Energy Saving Roof Coating
> 
> Thermal-Ply21 Elastomeric Coating (TPEC), blended with our proprietary Micro-Cells, was designed and developed to reduce heat for industrial, commercial, agricultural, and residential use. On exterior or interior surfaces, including unprimed and galvanized metal in any climate. As little as .5 to .8 mm of this Glass Sphere Thermal Barrier Liquid Applied Roof Coating, can give savings equal to 152+ millimeters of other types of insulation. Insulation values of R-20 can be realized.
> 
> 
> Unlike some paint and roof coatings that make insulation claims based solely on reflectivity, TPEC creates a Thermal Barrier that dissipates heat away from the area where applied. These coatings, combined with the Micro-Cells, bonds to surfaces other products cannot, such as unprimed or galvanized metal, tile, asphalt, bituminous or composition roofs, and wood that is subject to swelling and shrinking.
> 
> 
> TPEC is liquid applied, insulates itself as well as the surface it protects from weather damage, and it can last 2 to 3 times longer than conventional products. Because it is liquid applied, TPEC becomes a one piece rubber like membrane roof or wall system. The temperature insulation properties unique to this coating also makes it a noise insulator.
> 
> 
> Every exterior roof and wall system has a common enemy, the sun, where conventional dark-colored roofs and dark colored walls tend to absorb the sun's rays and break down due to UV degradation. TPEC can actually reflect up to 90% of the sun's heat, radiation, and destructive UV rays.
> 
> 
> This heat reduction can keep the surface temperature cooler in summer than any regular coated or covered wall or roof. The reduced UV degradation allows the surface to remain highly flexible, so it can tolerate the expansion and contraction (Thermal Shock) of the substrate without cracking. Even at surface temperatures as low as -26°C. High durability translates into less maintenance, while repairs only require acrylic caulk or a roof coating touchup. All of this amounts to years or additional life for the wall or roof.
> 
> Energy Star
> TPEC is Energy Star Rated
> 
> In light of the work that the U.S. General Services Administration (GSA) Public Buildings Service (PBS) is involved in the sustainable design area, there is considerable discussion about the use of &#8220;low VOC&#8221; paints and roof coatings GSA and other governmental agencies use in new construction and repair/alteration processes. The technology of &#8220;low VOC&#8221; paints and coatings such as TPEC, makes their use a very viable option in pursuing environmentally preferable products and promoting a more sustainable environment.
> 
> VOC's are any organic compounds that are in a gaseous state of evaporate at typical ambient temperatures. VOC's include a variety of chemicals, such as benzene, carbon tetrachloride, and styrene. These are highly toxic and have been proven to cause both short-term and long-term health effects. These health effects include temporary shortness of breath, asthma, lung irritation and chronic diseases such a pulmonary fibrosis.
> 
> VOC's are often thought of as the sole indicator for how healthy a paint or coating is. Chemicals in paints and coatings that offgas (volatilize) are most likely to be inhaled and affect our health. VOC's adversely impact the ambient air quality. Outside, VOC's may react with other pollutants, for example; the reaction of VOC's and nitrous oxides from combustion of fossil fuels to create ground level ozone and photochemical smog. The reduction of VOC emissions can significantly lessen the impact on global warming. The use of TPEC with it's very low VOC's, 50 grams per liter, assist in the reduction of these emissions.
> 
> The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) standard limits the amount of VOC's in paints and roof coatings; it is based on the reduction of the ground-level ozone generated. The table below shows the EPA standards in comparison with the California South Coast Air Management Distr4ict's and Green Seal standards for low VOC flat and non-flat interior and exterior paints and coatings.


----------



## Oddball

Midnight Marauder said:


> I simply understand what you do not -- that this is really stupid and if a Boooosh appointee had said it, you would be all over it letting the world know how stupid it really is.
> 
> Partisan hacks such as yourself  blindly, instinctively rush in to defend The Obama, with willing suspension of intellect. Just like any science fiction moviegoer. Rooting for the hero and enjoying the show is much more important to you than the facts and the science are.
> 
> Your willing ignorance is surpassed only by your dishonesty.



They're like the dipshits who believe that pro rasslin' is real!!


----------



## Sinatra

Dude said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> 
> I simply understand what you do not -- that this is really stupid and if a Boooosh appointee had said it, you would be all over it letting the world know how stupid it really is.
> 
> Partisan hacks such as yourself  blindly, instinctively rush in to defend The Obama, with willing suspension of intellect. Just like any science fiction moviegoer. Rooting for the hero and enjoying the show is much more important to you than the facts and the science are.
> 
> Your willing ignorance is surpassed only by your dishonesty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're like the dipshits who believe that pro rasslin' is real!!
Click to expand...



Liberals are nerds - not the smart ones mind you, but the Star Trek convention style version of nerds...







_Obama says paint my roof white!  Yes!!!!!!!!!!!_


----------



## Red Dawn

American Horse said:


> Obama's green guru calls for white roofs - Telegraph
> 
> _"Professor Steven Chu, the US Energy Secretary, said the unusual proposal would mean homes in hot countries would save energy and money on air conditioning by deflecting the sun's rays.
> 
> More pale surfaces could also slow global warming by reflecting heat into space rather than allowing it to be absorbed by dark surfaces where it is trapped by greenhouse gases and increases temperatures.
> 
> The Nobel Prize-winning physicist said the US was not considering any large scale "geo-engineering" projects where science is used to reverse global warming, but was in favour of "white roofs everywhere".
> 
> *He said lightening roofs and roads in urban environments would offset the global warming effects of all the cars in the world for 11 years.*
> 
> "If you look at all the buildings and if you make the roofs white and if you make the pavement more of a concrete type of colour rather than a black type of colour and if you do that uniformally, that would be the equivalent of... reducing the carbon emissions due to all the cars in the world by 11 years  just taking them off the road for 11 years," he said." _
> 
> You might think that it's a joke that he's recommending roofs and highways be painted, but listen up; at least some who speak out for Obama are saying just that.
> 
> Never mind the impracticality of painting roofs period, the heat that is produced by the roof-plane escapes by convection from vents in the ridge and the eaves.  Present requirements of R-38 resistance to heat/cold penetration in building codes  have reached the point of diminishing returns for the cost of increasing the insulation and the dollars saved.  Only flat roofs where insulation is limited by it's thickness, or the space is not accessible would be only improveable by painting them white, and they are for the most part covered with a light colored aggregate mineral surface already.
> 
> How many highways are really black,  even "black-topped" or asphalt paved surfaces turn a medium grey in just a few years.  In subdivisions we "coat" our black-top drives to make them look black and fresh once again. Highways paved with concrete are a pretty light grey immediately.
> 
> I for one question if this suggestion should even be given the light of day, especially in a public forum as is being reported.
> 
> There is an advantage to letting these people talk their fool heads off; the American people are for the most part practical, and recognize when they are being led by fools.
> 
> _"In a wide-ranging discussion at the three-day Nobel laureate Symposium in London, the Professor described climate change as a "crisis situation"_
> 
> It almost seems that he went there unprepared with anything better, to pull that idea out of his hat at a symposium like this one.




Do you have a degree in engineering, and have you done the calculations as to the energy efficiency impact? 

No? 


Then I assume you have absolutely no idea of the science or engineering that's been done on this issue, and are simply reacting emotionally.


----------



## Avatar4321

edthecynic said:


> LimpBoy has everything to do with this thread, you morons are stupidly parroting his rationalizations.



No one mentioned Rush until you arrived. We all think this man is an idiot for obvious reasons. Pretty much the same reasons you are an idiot. Yet, despite this you still ignore facts.



> And his "logic" is flawed because it is not HEAT that is reflected!!!!!!!!



Duh you freaking idiot! This is exactly why painting the roof is an absurd idea to stop "global warming"! And yet you are defending this moron by attacking Rush for pointing out the stupidity of the argument!




> That is very very basic science. LimpBoy is not taking anything to its conclusion because he is using his OWN stupid premiss that white reflects HEAT.



The premise put for by Cho in the Obama administration is that painting the roof and highways white will stop global warming by reflecting the suns rays. He is the one arguing that heat is reflected and implying that the color of a substance is at all effected by the heat it absorbs rather than the light it reflects.

But you are so freaking stupid that you cant see that Rush is absolutely correct in pointing out the ridiculousness of the position. A position _you_ are defending.



> No climatologist ever said white reflects heat, not even the deniers. Only LimpBoy and his ditto-dopers are stupid enough not to know white reflects the rays of the sun, ONLY the rays that are NOT reflected are converted to heat.



Rush isnt the one making the claim!



> Now what I did with the boiling on white snow was illustrate LimpBoy's absurdity by being absurd, LimpBoy's tactic turned against him. But since you are too stupid to know white does not reflect heat, it went completely over your head.  ROFLMAO



I cant believe someone this stupid actually exists. Im going to make this as clear as possible.

Color, does not determine the tempature of an object. Your statements do not illustrate absurdity of anyone, they illustrate your own stupidity. 

This is why Cho is a moron. Because color doesnt determine heat. Rush Limbaugh has absolutely nothing to do with it. 

Ill try to make it even easier by using small words.

Color... Heat.... Not related.

Do you understand this yet?


----------



## American Horse

Red Dawn said:


> Do you have a degree in engineering, and have you done the calculations as to the energy efficiency impact?
> 
> No?



Red, you pose pretty tough standards on those who criticize ideas coming out of this administration.



> Then I assume you have absolutely no idea of the science or engineering that's been done on this issue, and are simply reacting emotionally.



And I can make the same assumption about you, and your resistance to opposition. You are emotionally invested.

I would have to have pretty high powered qualifications to fully evaluate the merits of this proposal, and if I did have those qualifications I probably wouldn&#8217;t be spending my time here on this forum board, which I assume is more about good humored comment and an exchange of ideas than a meeting place for engineers, chemists, and scientists. So we don't need those quals to make posts rasing questions about public policy by an administration.

But I do have 30+ years of practical experience in all aspects of roof systems, applicable codes, their construction, ventilation,  and their costs; also roads and paved surfaces of all types that we see in use today; and I did spend 4-years as an engineer doing cost benefit analysis.  I hope all that at least gave me a sense of proportion which is the first element of making sound judgments. 

I recall an early pronouncement by the president as candidate himself that _With proper tire inflation we would be able to conserve as much oil as might be produced by offshore drilling_ [/paraphrase].  How much study was put into *that*  before it was pronounced?

Here is some information to factor in when considering this proposal of painting roofs and roads:

Most heat inside a home's living space is gained from the ceiling and west facing windows and mostly during and after the afternoon hours. Pitched roof (as well as flat roofs which are uncommon in residential construction) attic spaces are presently required to be insulated to R-38 resistance value and properly vented to allow the escape of hot (and humid) air from enclosed attics.  Additional inches of insulation above an R-38 are not cost/benefit effective, so the most cost effective model is already prescribed.  So reduction of energy useage for air conditioning must not be what this proposal is designed to do.

Therefore its intent must be to reduce excess amounts of heat being released from black surfaces into the atmosphere by replacing them with lighter colored surfaces.

The most absorbent roof or paving color is black, the most reflective is white. How many roofs are truly black? On average the colors are somewhere in between highest and lowest reflectivity.  A better option than &#8220;painting&#8221; roofs would be to simply mandate all new roofs and replacement roofs, as they come up, be white or light grey shingles.  We will certainly not mandate that roofs be a single (or a multiple) coat of this paint over existing roofs or over bare plywood even in a thick membrane rubberized emulsion layer for obvious reasons of difficulty of making repairs later and aesthetics/pride of ownership.  Modern flat roof surfaces which have the  worse case angle for absorption of heat from sun light are almost always covered by a light colored aggregate mineral surface.

The same sorts of considerations apply to highways, roads, streets, and parking lot paving.  After being paved with "black-top" (asphalt) within a year the new surface, black at first  has moderated to a grey, and in a couple of years it has moderated to a light grey very close to the color of concrete which is well known to be sun-heat reflective. To appreciate the difference I&#8217;m describing stand shoeless on a slab of concrete and then a totally black surface at 3:00 Pm under a hot sun.   

If this proposal is based on black pavement there is only the need to wait a year or two and the problem of excessive heat absorption and release into the atmosphere is solved by natural weathering.

Because of these considerations I'm much inclined to conclude that painting roads and roofs white will be very uncommon, regardless of the policy pronouncements of this administration


----------



## alan1

Zoom-boing said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> 
> When i was in Bermuda on vacay a couple of years ago, all of the roofs were white, and all of the roofs were hip roofs, *that had channels in them to collect rain water *for their own personal use, dropped down in to a cistern in their lower level basements, then filtered and used as drinking water.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with thinking outside of the box imho.
> 
> As far as roofs being painted, not certain that can really be done, but no reason that future homes built in the south, could not be built with lighter roofs or built to recapture rain water for drinking....we are behind the times on these type of things.
> 
> And if an asphault can be developed that is not black or dark grey that can be topped on our roads, why not?  Why complain???
> 
> care
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rain barrels are a great idea for capturing the rain water to water hanging baskets and other plants in the summer.  We meant to make one last year and never got around to it.  Thanks for a reminder!
Click to expand...


But wait a minute, I pay the city a tax for storm water run-off.  Screw it, if I have to pay for storm water run-off, they should install the cistern for me.


----------



## edthecynic

Avatar4321 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> LimpBoy has everything to do with this thread, you morons are stupidly parroting his rationalizations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one mentioned Rush until you arrived. We all think this man is an idiot for obvious reasons. Pretty much the same reasons you are an idiot. Yet, despite this you still ignore facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And his "logic" is flawed because it is not HEAT that is reflected!!!!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Duh you freaking idiot! This is exactly why painting the roof is an absurd idea to stop "global warming"! And yet you are defending this moron by attacking Rush for pointing out the stupidity of the argument!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The premise put for by Cho in the Obama administration is that painting the roof and highways white will stop global warming* by reflecting the suns rays. *He is the one arguing that* heat is reflected* and implying that the color of a substance is at all effected by the heat it absorbs rather than the light it reflects.
> 
> But you are so freaking stupid that you cant see that Rush is absolutely correct in pointing out the ridiculousness of the position. A position _you_ are defending.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No climatologist ever said white reflects heat, not even the deniers. Only LimpBoy and his ditto-dopers are stupid enough not to know white reflects the rays of the sun, ONLY the rays that are NOT reflected are converted to heat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rush isnt the one making the claim!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now what I did with the boiling on white snow was illustrate LimpBoy's absurdity by being absurd, LimpBoy's tactic turned against him. But since you are too stupid to know white does not reflect heat, it went completely over your head.  ROFLMAO
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I cant believe someone this stupid actually exists. Im going to make this as clear as possible.
> 
> *Color, does not determine the tempature of an object.* Your statements do not illustrate absurdity of anyone, they illustrate your own stupidity.
> 
> This is why* Cho is a moron. Because color doesnt determine heat.* Rush Limbaugh has absolutely nothing to do with it.
> 
> Ill try to make it even easier by using small words.
> 
> *Color... Heat.... Not related.*
> 
> Do you understand this yet?
Click to expand...


Do you want to make a bet???????

This is what I love about the complete STUPIDITY of CON$ervastives!!! Even after I pointed out it was Ben Franklin who PROVED the relationship between color and heat, CON$ are too STUPID and LAZY to at least google it and get info for themselves. LOL
Then they act like they are right and the educated people who actually know the relationship between light, heat and color are idiots. 
CON$ are tooooooooo STUPID to know when they are making a fool of themselves.
ROFLMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO

What Cho, Franklin, myself and most people with the intelligence of a competent 9 year old know is, the SUN'S RAYS that are REFLECTED are NOT converted to heat. This fact was taught in many grammar schools after a snowfall by repeating Franklin's 1736 experiment. Colored squares are placed on top of the snow in full sunshine and after a time the depth the squares sink into the snow is measured.



> PhysicsCentral: Physics in the Snow: Snowy Colors
> 
> Physics in the Snow: Snowy Colors
> 
> Most people associate Ben Franklin with electricity, but his first recorded experiment was on something totally different  color and heat. Youve probably noticed that you heat up faster in the sunlight if youre wearing a dark shirt.
> 
> Sunlight looks white or yellow, but it is actually made up of all of the colors of the rainbow. Raindrops and prisms can split sunlight into these colors.
> 
> The colors of most objects are determined by the colors of visible light* the objects absorb and reflect. For example, an apple looks red because red light bounces off of the apple, but the apple absorbs every other color.
> *Black objects don't reflect any light. They absorb all of the light that falls on them. By contrast, white objects reflect all colors of light and don't absorb any.* Green objects fall somewhere in the middle. Dark red objects absorb more light than light red objects. In general the darker the color, the more light is absorbed and the less is reflected.
> 
> What does this have to do with heat?* Heat and light are both forms of energy. Most of the light that objects absorb turns into heat. Since black objects absorb the most light, they also give off the most heat.*


----------



## Red Dawn

Im not sure why science hating conservatives, who voted for Bush twice, thought the Iraq war was a great idea, and thought deregulating wall street made great economic sense, have any credibility to tell us anything. 

These armchair wanna be scientists dont have engineering degrees and probably couldnt calculate a quadratic function if their lives depended on it.  And yet, after they read something on the Limbaugh website for five minutes, they come on here like emotional school girls to inform us this shit is idiotic. 

On the other hand, three of the nations top Scientists, at the most prestigious science lab in the nation  Lawrence Livermore  say that increasing albedo would have a demonstrable effect on energy efficiency and carbon footprint.  Its not a magic bullet, there is no one magic bullet.  But why not try out everything the experts say would work? 

In short, who would you rather believe?  Actual top rate scientists from Lawrence Livermore Lab? 

Or anonymous rightwing message board posters, who voted for Bush twice, and get their science information from Glenn Beck?




> Increasing world-wide urban albedos to offset CO2
> 
> Hashem Akbari  , Surabi Menon1 and Arthur Rosenfeld
> 
> (1) 	Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, Berkeley, CA, USA
> (2) 	California Energy Commission, Sacramento, CA, USA
> 
> Abstract  Increasing urban albedo can reduce summertime temperatures, resulting in better air quality and savings from reduced air-conditioning costs. In addition, increasing urban albedo can result in less absorption of incoming solar radiation by the surface-troposphere system, countering to some extent the global scale effects of increasing greenhouse gas concentrations. Pavements and roofs typically constitute over 60% of urban surfaces (roof 2025%, pavements about 40%). Using reflective materials, both roof and pavement albedos can be increased by about 0.25 and 0.15, respectively, resulting in a net albedo increase for urban areas of about 0.1. On a global basis, we estimate that increasing the world-wide albedos of urban roofs and paved surfaces will induce a negative radiative forcing on the earth equivalent to offsetting about 44 Gt of CO2 emissions. At &#8764;$25/tonne of CO2, a 44 Gt CO2 emission offset from changing the albedo of roofs and paved surfaces is worth about $1,100 billion. Furthermore, many studies have demonstrated reductions of more than 20% in cooling costs for buildings whose rooftop albedo has been increased from 1020% to about 60% (in the US, potential savings exceed $1 billion per year). Our estimated CO2 offsets from albedo modifications are dependent on assumptions used in this study, but nevertheless demonstrate remarkable global cooling potentials that may be obtained from cooler roofs and pavements.


----------



## dilloduck

> Our estimated CO2 offsets from albedo modifications are dependent on assumptions used in this study,




key phrase


----------



## NOBama

MountainMan said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MountainMan said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you should be required to paint your car white to reduce your need for AC in your car.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THAT'S next, can't you see the ''change''  on the horizon?
> 
> actually, people do this already.....i have read that more white cars are sold in the south than anywhere in America! blah! white cars are boring! though they do keep your dashboard from melting and cracking...of which i owned 2 cars that did such, when i lived in florida!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *You can get this car in any color you want, as long as it's white*.
Click to expand...

 Maybe that will be Government Motors new motto, next week.


----------



## Red Dawn

dilloduck said:


> Our estimated CO2 offsets from albedo modifications are dependent on assumptions used in this study,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> key phrase
Click to expand...

 

what do your calculations show, and what is your science degree in?


----------



## Oddball

Red Dawn said:


> Im not sure why science hating conservatives, who voted for Bush twice, thought the Iraq war was a great idea, and thought deregulating wall street made great economic sense, have any credibility to tell us anything.
> 
> These armchair wanna be scientists dont have engineering degrees and probably couldnt calculate a quadratic function if their lives depended on it.  And yet, after they read something on the Limbaugh website for five minutes, they come on here like emotional school girls to inform us this shit is idiotic.
> 
> On the other hand, three of the nations top Scientists, at the most prestigious science lab in the nation  Lawrence Livermore  say that increasing albedo would have a demonstrable effect on energy efficiency and carbon footprint.  Its not a magic bullet, there is no one magic bullet.  But why not try out everything the experts say would work?
> 
> In short, who would you rather believe?  Actual top rate scientists from Lawrence Livermore Lab?
> 
> Or anonymous rightwing message board posters, who voted for Bush twice, and get their science information from Glenn Beck?


Oh, so your appeal to authority can beat up their appeal to authority!!


----------



## Red Dawn

Red Dawn said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Our estimated CO2 offsets from albedo modifications are dependent on assumptions used in this study,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> key phrase
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> what do your calculations show, and what is your science degree in?
Click to expand...



Oh, I'm sorry!  


You don't have any calculations, you don't have a degree in science, and the last exposure you had to science was cutting open a frog in 10th grade biology class 40 years ago. 

My bad! 

why didn't you just say you didn't have the foggiest fucking clue what the science behind this was, and you were simply reacting emotionally to "evil liberal scientists?


----------



## Meister

The environuts really believe that Man can actually change Mother Nature by painting  roof tops?    Geeze, you can paint all the highways, and all the roofs in the world white...and it will end up having no impact whatsoever, nada, none, zilch.
I wish the nuts would come down off their pedestals, and get a fucking grip on reality.  We just aren't all that, where we can change what has been going on for billions of years on this planet.   
This is no more than just politics, no more, and no less.  Yet the environuts have drank the Kool-Aid.  It has nothing to do with the environment, but some on this thread have been duped.  I'm just glad they weren't at Jones Town back in the late 1970's.  They would surely be part of the 800+ laying on the ground.


----------



## editec

Meister said:


> The environuts really believe that Man can actually change Mother Nature by painting roof tops?  Geeze, you can paint all the highways, and all the roofs in the world white...and it will end up having no impact whatsoever, nada, none, zilch.


 
Of course it will have an impact.

The question is _how much?_

Depends on how much is painted. It could range from imperceptable to enormous.

From a micro-climate perspective it could be very perceptable in the cities, for example.



> I wish the nuts would come down off their pedestals, and get a fucking grip on reality. We just aren't all that, where we can change what has been going on for billions of years on this planet.


 
You sir, are sort of an idiot if you actually believe that. 

Life has been effecting the climate since life first manfested on this planet. It is impossble for life on this planet NOT to effect the planet's climate to some degree or the other.

As the current dominant species, and one with an enormous impact thanks to our technology, the effect on micro-climates are obvious.

Just compare the temperatures between any major city and the surrounding suburbs. 

The manmade effects on the world's climate overall is VERY debatable, of course.

But the debate isn't: _are we having an effect? ; _because, of course, there is no way we cannot behave _some effect_ on the climate.

Every time I light a cigarette or you drive you car we are both effecting the composition of the world's atmosphere somewhat, yes?

So the debate can only be: _how much effect are we having?_



.


----------



## DiamondDave

No edit... it will not

It does not magically go back into space... you have the atmosphere and other things to have the 'rays' filtered back through.... While it can effect (at times) heat absorption for a house roof or whatever.. this will do ABSOLUTELY nothing for 'global warming'

This is junk science... plain and simple...


----------



## editec

DiamondDave said:


> No edit... it will not
> 
> It does not magically go back into space... you have the atmosphere and other things to have the 'rays' filtered back through.... While it can effect (at times) heat absorption for a house roof or whatever.. this will do ABSOLUTELY nothing for 'global warming'
> 
> This is junk science... plain and simple...


 


If you imagine that the amount of reflecting light that escapes into space with being coverted from light into infra-red spectrum isn't going to effect the world's temperature, David, nobody has the time to teach you basic physics.

You really ought to bone up on this subject because you're making yourself look like a complete moron.


----------



## DiamondDave

editec said:


> DiamondDave said:
> 
> 
> 
> No edit... it will not
> 
> It does not magically go back into space... you have the atmosphere and other things to have the 'rays' filtered back through.... While it can effect (at times) heat absorption for a house roof or whatever.. this will do ABSOLUTELY nothing for 'global warming'
> 
> This is junk science... plain and simple...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you imagine that the amount of reflecting light that escapes into space with being coverted from light into infra-red spectrum isn't going to effect the world's temperature, David, nobody has the time to teach you basic physics.
> 
> You really ought to bone up on this subject because you're making yourself look like a complete moron.
Click to expand...


Pardon me?? I have probably had more science and physics classes and education under my belt than you EVER have, edit

This is bogus and bullshit science... it can have an effect on the structure in question (and a negative effect in the winter when heat absorption is wanted).. it is not going to have an effect on a global scale for the environment... period... this limited light reflection is not making it back out to space


----------



## Ravi

DiamondDave said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DiamondDave said:
> 
> 
> 
> No edit... it will not
> 
> It does not magically go back into space... you have the atmosphere and other things to have the 'rays' filtered back through.... While it can effect (at times) heat absorption for a house roof or whatever.. this will do ABSOLUTELY nothing for 'global warming'
> 
> This is junk science... plain and simple...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you imagine that the amount of reflecting light that escapes into space with being coverted from light into infra-red spectrum isn't going to effect the world's temperature, David, nobody has the time to teach you basic physics.
> 
> You really ought to bone up on this subject because you're making yourself look like a complete moron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pardon me?? I have probably had more science and physics classes and education under my belt than you EVER have, edit
> 
> This is bogus and bullshit science... it can have an effect on the structure in question (and a negative effect in the winter when heat absorption is wanted).. it is not going to have an effect on a global scale for the environment... period... this limited light reflection is not making it back out to space
Click to expand...

It lessens the money spent and energy used to cool a home.

Optimally we'd have some kind of rotating tiles on our rooves to absorb heat when it is cold and to reflect it when it is hot.


----------



## Meister

editec said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> The environuts really believe that Man can actually change Mother Nature by painting roof tops?  Geeze, you can paint all the highways, and all the roofs in the world white...and it will end up having no impact whatsoever, nada, none, zilch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it will have an impact.
> 
> The question is _how much?_
> 
> Depends on how much is painted. It could range from imperceptable to enormous.
> 
> From a micro-climate perspective it could be very perceptable in the cities, for example.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wish the nuts would come down off their pedestals, and get a fucking grip on reality. We just aren't all that, where we can change what has been going on for billions of years on this planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *You sir, are sort of an idiot if you actually believe that.*
> 
> Life has been effecting the climate since life first manfested on this planet. It is impossble for life on this planet NOT to effect the planet's climate to some degree or the other.
> 
> As the current dominant species, and one with an enormous impact thanks to our technology, the effect on micro-climates are obvious.
> 
> Just compare the temperatures between any major city and the surrounding suburbs.
> 
> The manmade effects on the world's climate overall is VERY debatable, of course.
> 
> But the debate isn't: _are we having an effect? ; _because, of course, there is no way we cannot behave _some effect_ on the climate.
> Every time I light a cigarette or you drive you car we are both effecting the composition of the world's atmosphere somewhat, yes?
> So the debate can only be: _*how much effect are we having?[/*I]
> 
> 
> 
> ._
Click to expand...

_

Sir....there is an idiot between the 2 of us...and I'm not it.   I see you haven't found the steps that lead down from your pedestal yet.
Hypothetical....if you could paint all the roofs white in the world, and also paint all the highways in thw world.  Then take a trip to the moon and look back on the Earth....wanna know if you could even see what you accomplished?  Couldn't see anything, because the Earth is soooo large, and you and I are just the peons of it.  Like I said, get a grip on reality.

The only debate on effect that your having is in yours, and other environuts heads._


----------



## DiamondDave

Ravi said:


> DiamondDave said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you imagine that the amount of reflecting light that escapes into space with being coverted from light into infra-red spectrum isn't going to effect the world's temperature, David, nobody has the time to teach you basic physics.
> 
> You really ought to bone up on this subject because you're making yourself look like a complete moron.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pardon me?? I have probably had more science and physics classes and education under my belt than you EVER have, edit
> 
> This is bogus and bullshit science... it can have an effect on the structure in question (and a negative effect in the winter when heat absorption is wanted).. it is not going to have an effect on a global scale for the environment... period... this limited light reflection is not making it back out to space
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It lessens the money spent and energy used to cool a home.
> 
> Optimally we'd have some kind of rotating tiles on our rooves to absorb heat when it is cold and to reflect it when it is hot.
Click to expand...


And the energy to rotate the tiles comes from?? And the gaps there allowing the tile rotation do what for the total insulation? Not to mention are you going to continually WASH your white roof and the energy you need to the delivery of water, production of cleaning supplies, etc comes from where? And as stated, this does not just get magically reflected all the way back to space

This is just more feed for the global warming scare tactics


----------



## YWN666

KittenKoder said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> 
> When i was in Bermuda on vacay a couple of years ago, all of the roofs were white, and all of the roofs were hip roofs, that had channels in them to collect rain water for their own personal use, dropped down in to a cistern in their lower level basements, then filtered and used as drinking water.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with thinking outside of the box imho.
> 
> As far as roofs being painted, not certain that can really be done, but no reason that future homes built in the south, could not be built with lighter roofs or built to recapture rain water for drinking....we are behind the times on these type of things.
> 
> And if an asphault can be developed that is not black or dark grey that can be topped on our roads, why not?  Why complain???
> 
> care
> 
> 
> 
> Latex paint maybe? Have you any idea of the TRILLIONS of gallons it would take to paint all the roofs white?
> 
> Who's gonna pay for it? Who's gonna get filthy rich off of it? What would be the ENVIRONMENTAL consequences?
> 
> Come on now....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is nothing wrong with thinking outside of the box imho.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There's also nothing wrong with saying something an Obama droid such as this guy said, is Stoopid!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not to mention how much to KEEP it all white.
Click to expand...


If the plan is ever adopted, I'm investing in companies that manufacture sunglasses.

It's all about shades, man.


----------



## Ravi

Ravi said:


> DiamondDave said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pardon me?? I have probably had more science and physics classes and education under my belt than you EVER have, edit
> 
> This is bogus and bullshit science... it can have an effect on the structure in question (and a negative effect in the winter when heat absorption is wanted).. it is not going to have an effect on a global scale for the environment... period... this limited light reflection is not making it back out to space
> 
> 
> 
> It lessens the money spent and energy used to cool a home.
> 
> Optimally we'd have some kind of rotating tiles on our rooves to absorb heat when it is cold and to reflect it when it is hot.
Click to expand...




DiamondDave said:


> And the energy to rotate the tiles comes from??


The owner of the home...it shouldn't be difficult or require electricity to pull a lever.



> And the gaps there allowing the tile rotation do what for the total insulation? Not to mention are you going to continually WASH your white roof and the energy you need to the delivery of water, production of cleaning supplies, etc comes from where?


My last house had white tiles that I never had to clean...the rain does a pretty good job and the sun kills the mold that might result from the humidity.



> And as stated, this does not just get magically reflected all the way back to space
> 
> This is just more feed for the global warming scare tactics


I've no idea what this magically reflected silliness is about. I can tell you that having a light colored roof in a hot climate saves money and energy.


----------



## YWN666

Ravi said:


> And as stated, this does not just get magically reflected all the way back to space
> 
> This is just more feed for the global warming scare tactics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've no idea what this magically reflected silliness is about. I can tell you that having a light colored roof in a hot climate saves money and energy.
Click to expand...



If any of you have been to Bermuda, you've seen a whole lot of white roofs.


----------



## Meister

YWN666 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And as stated, this does not just get magically reflected all the way back to space
> 
> This is just more feed for the global warming scare tactics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've no idea what this magically reflected silliness is about. I can tell you that having a light colored roof in a hot climate saves money and energy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If any of you have been to Bermuda, you've seen a whole lot of white roofs.
Click to expand...


Nobody is denying that it helps in the very immediate area of the roof, but not on the global level that is being stated


----------



## Red Dawn

Meister said:


> YWN666 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've no idea what this magically reflected silliness is about. I can tell you that having a light colored roof in a hot climate saves money and energy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If any of you have been to Bermuda, you've seen a whole lot of white roofs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nobody is denying that it helps in the very immediate area of the roof,* but not on the global level that is being stated*
Click to expand...


How do you know?

Can you please post your calculations that demonstrate this, and provide us with your engineering pedigree and education? 

Or, are you just pulling shit out of your ass, with absolutly zero empirical data to back your assertion up? 

I'm going to trust the calcualtions of three top scientists, from one on the nation's top science labs, before I trust your "opinion".    Unless you can provide your calculations that back up your statement.


----------



## Meister

Red Dawn said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YWN666 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If any of you have been to Bermuda, you've seen a whole lot of white roofs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody is denying that it helps in the very immediate area of the roof,* but not on the global level that is being stated*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How do you know?
> 
> Can you please post your calculations that demonstrate this, and provide us with your engineering pedigree and education?
> 
> Or, are you just pulling shit out of your ass, with absolutly zero empirical data to back your assertion up?
> 
> I'm going to trust the calcualtions of three top scientists, from one on the nation's top science labs, before I trust your "opinion".    Unless you can provide your calculations that back up your statement.
Click to expand...


Show me the links to where painting roofs white will lower global temperatures, and while your at it show me their calculations.....
Or, are you just listening to the ones that are pulling it out of their asses?  For God sakes, you are such a fool.


----------



## editec

Meister said:


> Red Dawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody is denying that it helps in the very immediate area of the roof,* but not on the global level that is being stated*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know?
> 
> Can you please post your calculations that demonstrate this, and provide us with your engineering pedigree and education?
> 
> Or, are you just pulling shit out of your ass, with absolutly zero empirical data to back your assertion up?
> 
> I'm going to trust the calcualtions of three top scientists, from one on the nation's top science labs, before I trust your "opinion". Unless you can provide your calculations that back up your statement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Show me the links to where painting roofs white will lower global temperatures, and while your at it show me their calculations.....
> Or, are you just listening to the ones that are pulling it out of their asses? For God sakes, you are such a fool.
Click to expand...

 
I was under the impression he was calling for a change both in rooves and roads.

I have no idea how much effect that might have globally, but I promise that it would effect places that are highly paved...like New Jersey for example, which is, I am informed, the most highly paved place in the world percentage-wise.


----------



## Red Dawn

Meister said:


> Red Dawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody is denying that it helps in the very immediate area of the roof,* but not on the global level that is being stated*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know?
> 
> Can you please post your calculations that demonstrate this, and provide us with your engineering pedigree and education?
> 
> Or, are you just pulling shit out of your ass, with absolutly zero empirical data to back your assertion up?
> 
> I'm going to trust the calcualtions of three top scientists, from one on the nation's top science labs, before I trust your "opinion".    Unless you can provide your calculations that back up your statement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Show me the links to where painting roofs white will lower global temperatures, and while your at it show me their calculations.....
> Or, are you just listening to the ones that are pulling it out of their asses?  For God sakes, you are such a fool.
Click to expand...




I haven't read the study, or evaluated the calculations. 

You have?  

Wait....no, you didn't? 


I don't pretend to know the answers. 

I just know when given a choice between a top notch engineering study conducted by three top Lawrence Livermore Lab scientists, or the opinion of a wingnut message board poster based on an emotional gut level reaction, I'm going to trust the scientists. 

Unless you can post your research and calculations that says differently than Lawrence Livermore Lab.


----------



## Meister

editec said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Red Dawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know?
> 
> Can you please post your calculations that demonstrate this, and provide us with your engineering pedigree and education?
> 
> Or, are you just pulling shit out of your ass, with absolutly zero empirical data to back your assertion up?
> 
> I'm going to trust the calcualtions of three top scientists, from one on the nation's top science labs, before I trust your "opinion". Unless you can provide your calculations that back up your statement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Show me the links to where painting roofs white will lower global temperatures, and while your at it show me their calculations.....
> Or, are you just listening to the ones that are pulling it out of their asses? For God sakes, you are such a fool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was under the impression he was calling for a change both in rooves and roads.
> 
> I have no idea how much effect that might have globally, but I promise that it would effect places that are highly paved...like New Jersey for example, which is, I am informed, the most highly paved place in the world percentage-wise.
Click to expand...



Like I said in an earlier post on this thread, it would have impact on the immediate area of the roof...(same as the road), but not on the global level as was stated.  It would be like lighting a match, and say your warming the Earth...that's just nuts.  You could have a 100,000 acre forrest fire, and it won't warm up the Earth...just in the immediate area.


----------



## Red Dawn

Meister said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> Show me the links to where painting roofs white will lower global temperatures, and while your at it show me their calculations.....
> Or, are you just listening to the ones that are pulling it out of their asses? For God sakes, you are such a fool.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was under the impression he was calling for a change both in rooves and roads.
> 
> I have no idea how much effect that might have globally, but I promise that it would effect places that are highly paved...like New Jersey for example, which is, I am informed, the most highly paved place in the world percentage-wise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *Like I said in an earlier post on this thread, it would have impact on the immediate area of the roof...(same as the road), but not on the global level as was stated.*  It would be like lighting a match, and say your warming the Earth...that's just nuts.  You could have a 100,000 acre forrest fire, and it won't warm up the Earth...just in the immediate area.
Click to expand...



You keep posting your opinion on this, but provide no valid engineering studies to back you up. 

You expect us to accept your opinion at face value, with no calculations or viable engineering studies to back you up?  


Please post an engineering study from nationally recognized experts in the field, that back up your conclusion? 

Oh, what's that you say?   You don't have a single calculation, nor one single viable engineering study that supports your conclusions? 


Why didn't you say so?    No one could have predicted that your conclusion was pulled straight out of your ass.


----------



## Meister

Red Dawn said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Red Dawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know?
> 
> Can you please post your calculations that demonstrate this, and provide us with your engineering pedigree and education?
> 
> Or, are you just pulling shit out of your ass, with absolutly zero empirical data to back your assertion up?
> 
> I'm going to trust the calcualtions of three top scientists, from one on the nation's top science labs, before I trust your "opinion".    Unless you can provide your calculations that back up your statement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Show me the links to where painting roofs white will lower global temperatures, and while your at it show me their calculations.....
> Or, are you just listening to the ones that are pulling it out of their asses?  For God sakes, you are such a fool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't read the study, or evaluated the calculations.
> 
> You have?
> 
> Wait....no, you didn't?
> 
> 
> I don't pretend to know the answers.
> 
> I just know when given a choice between a top notch engineering study conducted by three top Lawrence Livermore Lab scientists, or the opinion of a wingnut message board poster based on an emotional gut level reaction, I'm going to trust the scientists.
> 
> Unless you can post your research and calculations that says differently than Lawrence Livermore Lab.
Click to expand...


Who funded their study Red?  I bet it was someone with an agenda. Anyone can cherry pick results, and get rid of the other results to get to the desired results.  I don't have to prove anything.  You have to prove it because your the one trying to shove it down our throats with such nonsense.
Until then, go pound sand


----------



## Meister

Red Dawn said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was under the impression he was calling for a change both in rooves and roads.
> 
> I have no idea how much effect that might have globally, but I promise that it would effect places that are highly paved...like New Jersey for example, which is, I am informed, the most highly paved place in the world percentage-wise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Like I said in an earlier post on this thread, it would have impact on the immediate area of the roof...(same as the road), but not on the global level as was stated.*  It would be like lighting a match, and say your warming the Earth...that's just nuts.  You could have a 100,000 acre forrest fire, and it won't warm up the Earth...just in the immediate area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You keep posting your opinion on this, but provide no valid engineering studies to back you up.
> 
> You expect us to accept your opinion at face value, with no calculations or viable engineering studies to back you up?
> 
> 
> Please post an engineering study from nationally recognized experts in the field, that back up your conclusion?
> 
> Oh, what's that you say?   You don't have a single calculation, nor one single viable engineering study that supports your conclusions?
> 
> 
> Why didn't you say so?    No one could have predicted that your conclusion was pulled straight out of your ass.
Click to expand...


Red you are clueless in life.  I do feel sorry for you to be so gulible that you believe such tripe, and have no evidence or calculations to back up such tripe.  You have no clue who the Lawrence Livermoore Labs are, or who they represent.  I know you had no knowledge of this lab before this rediculous claim was made public.  Yet, your willing to be made a fool of on this board to back up what you know nothing about.  Like I said...go pound sand, sonny.


----------



## Red Dawn

Meister said:


> Red Dawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Like I said in an earlier post on this thread, it would have impact on the immediate area of the roof...(same as the road), but not on the global level as was stated.*  It would be like lighting a match, and say your warming the Earth...that's just nuts.  You could have a 100,000 acre forrest fire, and it won't warm up the Earth...just in the immediate area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You keep posting your opinion on this, but provide no valid engineering studies to back you up.
> 
> You expect us to accept your opinion at face value, with no calculations or viable engineering studies to back you up?
> 
> 
> Please post an engineering study from nationally recognized experts in the field, that back up your conclusion?
> 
> Oh, what's that you say?   You don't have a single calculation, nor one single viable engineering study that supports your conclusions?
> 
> 
> Why didn't you say so?    No one could have predicted that your conclusion was pulled straight out of your ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Red you are clueless in life.  I do feel sorry for you to be so gulible that you believe such tripe, and have no evidence or calculations to back up such tripe.  You have no clue who the Lawrence Livermoore Labs are, or who they represent.  *I know you had no knowledge of this lab before this rediculous claim was made public. * Yet, your willing to be made a fool of on this board to back up what you know nothing about.  Like I said...go pound sand, sonny.
Click to expand...



LOL 

I have friends who work at Lawerence Livermore. 

Unlike you, I am not scientifically uniformed, and anyone who has a marginal interest in science has heard of Lawerence Livermore National Lab.   Its probably the nation's top science institution, either that or Sandia. 

I pray you don't have a job with any responsiblity.  Because any job in business, in law, in engineering, or in science requires you to provide evidence, and data to back up anything you want to do, or want to claim. 

Your claims on this thread were pulled out of your ass.  You don't having a freaking clue about the science behind this topic, and neither do I.   But I can admit  I don't.


----------



## Oddball

And I have the Pope on speed dial!!

Aren't the interwebs fun?!?!??


----------



## Red Dawn

Dude said:


> And I have the Pope on speed dial!!
> 
> Aren't the interwebs fun?!?!??




Not all of us work at Jiffy Lube, or live with our parents. 


Some of us go to college, and have colleagues who work in responsible positions in business, law and science. 


Sorry you find that hard to believe, or that somehow you think people have a vested interest in lying on message boards.  I suspect its projection on your part.   Just because you make shit up, you assume other people do too?



At any rate, none of you bush lovers have given me anything more than _"It won't work"_ nonsense. 

But you can't provide any data or empirical evidence for why you think that.    Just pulling shit out of your ass, huh?


----------



## Meister

Red Dawn said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Red Dawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep posting your opinion on this, but provide no valid engineering studies to back you up.
> 
> You expect us to accept your opinion at face value, with no calculations or viable engineering studies to back you up?
> 
> 
> Please post an engineering study from nationally recognized experts in the field, that back up your conclusion?
> 
> Oh, what's that you say?   You don't have a single calculation, nor one single viable engineering study that supports your conclusions?
> 
> 
> Why didn't you say so?    No one could have predicted that your conclusion was pulled straight out of your ass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Red you are clueless in life.  I do feel sorry for you to be so gulible that you believe such tripe, and have no evidence or calculations to back up such tripe.  You have no clue who the Lawrence Livermoore Labs are, or who they represent.  *I know you had no knowledge of this lab before this rediculous claim was made public. * Yet, your willing to be made a fool of on this board to back up what you know nothing about.  Like I said...go pound sand, sonny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> I have friends who work at Lawerence Livermore.
> 
> Unlike you, I am not scientifically uniformed, and anyone who has a marginal interest in science has heard of Lawerence Livermore National Lab.   Its probably the nation's top science institution, either that or Sandia.
> 
> I pray you don't have a job with any responsiblity.  Because any job in business, in law, in engineering, or in science requires you to provide evidence, and data to back up anything you want to do, or want to claim.
> 
> Your claims on this thread were pulled out of your ass.  You don't having a freaking clue about the science behind this topic, and neither do I.   But I can admit  I don't.
Click to expand...

 

Now that is just too funny.  You have freinds that work there.  You are now just full of shit.  You can't back up a damn word you say with any information other than a left wing pipe dream and no calculations, and now you say that's science.  You are a fool Red Dawn, nothing more.


----------



## Meister

Red Dawn said:


> Dude said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I have the Pope on speed dial!!
> 
> Aren't the interwebs fun?!?!??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not all of us work at Jiffy Lube, or live with our parents.
> 
> 
> Some of us go to college, and have colleagues who work in responsible positions in business, law and science.
> 
> 
> Sorry you find that hard to believe, or that somehow you think people have a vested interest in lying on message boards.  I suspect its projection on your part.   Just because you make shit up, you assume other people do too?
> 
> 
> 
> At any rate, none of you bush lovers have given me anything more than [i*]"It won't work"*[/i] nonsense.
> 
> *But you can't provide any data or empirical evidence for why you think that.*    Just pulling shit out of your ass, huh?
Click to expand...


Nor, can you Red Dawn, You are the one that needs to prove what you claim.  You can't show us where it would work. You can't do it.     Hell, you got your head up Obama's butt, and you call us Bush lovers?  Who's pulling what out of who's ass?  Now isn't that rich?


----------



## Oddball

Red Dawn said:


> Dude said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I have the Pope on speed dial!!
> 
> Aren't the interwebs fun?!?!??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not all of us work at Jiffy Lube, or live with our parents.
> 
> 
> Some of us go to college, and have colleagues who work in responsible positions in business, law and science.
Click to expand...

And the funniest part of that is that you're no less full of shit!!


----------



## midcan5

Funny thread, our first home was a rancher on which I put white roofing shingles 30 years ago as heat was worse than cold in this house, and the living side had the sun and many windows. Cheap house energy wise, radiator heat but darn window AC as it was old. Radiators seem so much more efficient but out of date. 

We should have houses with roofs that switch from black to white, genetically change grass and trees to white, and shrink people. I've always thought shrinking people would be the best solution. Concrete highways are light enough. Now the hard part bring back trains as the main mode of transportation, actually my bicycles use little energy.


----------



## American Horse

midcan5 said:


> Funny thread




  I thought it would be, considering the unpractical idea being put forth as a solution to a very practical problem

our first home was a rancher on which I put white roofing shingles 30 years ago as heat was worse than cold in this house, and the living side had the sun and many windows.

  There was a time when we considered roof color much more than now. A nice tax credit for new light colored roofing replacements, with an expiration date or a reduction in a few years might encourage people to decide to make the change, and to accelerate doing  that since about 10% of roofs are in their last few years of useful service.   My own first house built in 65 had a light grey roof, and I thought it was 'smart' at the time.

Windows facing south don&#8217;t have much heat gain in the summer but in the winter, when the sun is low, as low as 27 deg. altitude at noon at Washington, DC, the sun will shine completely across South facing room even at noon.  In the summer, any overhang will prevent any sunlight entering a south facing room. East and  west facing windows increase a/c in summer but they reduce heat costs in winter, all else being equal. 

 Cheap house energy wise, radiator heat but darn window AC as it was old. Radiators seem so much more efficient but out of date. 

  Window a/c&#8217;s were good because they provided zoned space air conditioning. Today we might see more thru the wall space specific units like you see in motels. These are very iefficient for both heating and cooling.  Why not condition just the occupied space? 

High SEER electric heat pumps are the most efficient heating/cooling system available, with both in one unit, even as compared to GEO-thermal systems when you consider long term maintenance and service.

We should have houses with roofs that switch from black to white, 

  Roof color doesn&#8217;t matter as much in the winter as the summer, so black wouldn&#8217;t help as much as a light color year round. A roof design pitch can&#8217;t be raised enough to make much of a difference in collecting heat passively, and passive heat gain (and loss) ought to be the first design model for an all season efficent home. Passive solar has the advantage of having fewer additional input cost after construction, and being simpler to build and maintain.  

I recently explored this problem, designing a home that would take advantage of sunlight as much as possible.  Present cost of energy considerations ought to put a premium on the value of north facing lots, and especially those that are suitable for walk-out basements, because they would provide a two-story south facing, winter ehat collecting, rear elevation even with a ranch.  My design has a glass paneled roofed sun-porch to gather as much solar heat as possible and the siding within is step-profiled to amplify solar collection.  

genetically change grass and trees to white, Rather than black 

 My choice of siding  color of the wall in the sun-porch, is to be dark green because it is nearly effective as black in absorbing heat from the sun. What isn&#8217;t given off into the porch is to be collected in an extra deep wall cavity and transferred down into a basement level so that natural convection maximizes its benefit in the winter as it circulates upward through the floors and then the upper rooms. 

and shrink people. I've always thought shrinking people would be the best solution.

  We are shrinking people.  In a generation there ihas been less bio-replacement now than ever before.  But in this country immigration grows the human presence in spite of low replacement through birth. 

Concrete highways are light enough. 

 Thanks.... I see you reached the same calculation as I did on the color of concrete; and asphalt, aka blacktop, within only a couple of years is about the same albedo as concrete.  

Now the hard part bring back trains as the main mode of transportation, actually my bicycles use little energy

  We want point to point transportation; cars and bicycles are very efficient to achieve that end.   So how do we encourage people to ride bikes more often?  Remember back during the energy crises of the late 70&#8217;s early 80&#8217;s one scheme to promote rail transportation was to transport passengers cars on the same train to arrive along with the passenger?  That was a solution about on a par with painting roads and roofs.

Ironic that so many RR right of ways in cities have been turned into walking/bike ways. Our own city has one from center city to about 15 miles south and will soon connect to the nearest city 20 miles south; that&#8217;s quaint for the bikes, but people need to live nearer to their work to make bike riding more practical for them to want to do that. 

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## cbi0090

Folks, the guy is a scientist.  They live in a theoretical world.  There's nothing wrong with his notion or suggestion, it's just up to us to determine whether it's practical.


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## Old Rocks

cbi0090 said:


> Folks, the guy is a scientist.  They live in a theoretical world.  There's nothing wrong with his notion or suggestion, it's just up to us to determine whether it's practical.



I have already tried the solution, and it does help. There are products on the market that you can paint a roof with, such as Snow Roof, and also vastly extend the lifespan of your composition roofing. So the idea has been tested, and it works.


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## Old Rocks

Meister said:


> The environuts really believe that Man can actually change Mother Nature by painting  roof tops?    Geeze, you can paint all the highways, and all the roofs in the world white...and it will end up having no impact whatsoever, nada, none, zilch.
> I wish the nuts would come down off their pedestals, and get a fucking grip on reality.  We just aren't all that, where we can change what has been going on for billions of years on this planet.
> This is no more than just politics, no more, and no less.  Yet the environuts have drank the Kool-Aid.  It has nothing to do with the environment, but some on this thread have been duped.  I'm just glad they weren't at Jones Town back in the late 1970's.  They would surely be part of the 800+ laying on the ground.



No, we know that by creating a more reflective roof, that the house will need less energy for cooling. A savings for the homeowner, and less CO2 created to furnish the energy.

I wish that you wingnuts would for just once consider the science behind simple suggestions.


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## Red Dawn

cbi0090 said:


> Folks, the guy is a scientist.  They live in a theoretical world.  There's nothing wrong with his notion or suggestion, it's just up to us to determine whether it's practical.





great point! 

I'm exactly like you....I have no formal education in science, and I couldn't solve a cube root if someone had a gun to my head and my life depended on it.   

And like you, I always rely on the advice and qualifications of trained experts in every other area of my life, except when I suspect they are "liberal" scientists!   

Who ever heard of this crap about white reflecting solar energy and increasing albedo effect?   Sounds like crazy liberal hocus pocus to me!


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## Missourian

From the people who brought you the properly inflated tire and a waxed car gets better fuel economy. 
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## Teo Smith

Any form of energy can be transformed into another form, but the total energy always remains the same.


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