# Palestinian identity ?



## American_Jihad

The " palestinians" are arab outcast from surrounding arab countries...

*The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments *
* When lies are the foundation of policies. *
October 16, 2015
Bruce Thornton

Many of our policy debates and conflicts both domestic and foreign call on history to validate their positions. At home, crimes from the past like slavery and legal segregation are used to justify present policies ranging from racial set asides to housing regulations long after those institutions have been dismantled. Abroad, our jihadist enemies continually evoke the Crusades, “colonialism,” and “imperialism” as justifications for their violence. Yet the “history” used in such fashion is usually one-sided, simplistic, or downright false. Nor is the reason hard to find: as we read in _1984_, “Who controls the past . . . controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.” Bad history is a powerful instrument for gaining political power.

Nowhere is the abuse of history more rampant than in the Middle East. Since World War II all the problems whose origins lie in dysfunctional tribal and religious beliefs and behaviors have been laid at the feet of “colonialism” and “imperialism.” Western leftists––besotted both by a _marxiste_ hatred of liberal democracy, and by juvenile noble-savage Third-Worldism–– have legitimized this specious pretext, which now for many has become historical fact.

...

Everything about this narrative is false. There is no such thing as a “Palestinian” people, an idea that arose only after the Six Day War of 1967. The bulk of the people mistakenly called “Palestinians” are ethnically, religiously, and linguistically indistinguishable from Arab Muslims in Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria. Numerous comments by Arab leaders before 1967 emphasized this fact. For example, Zouhair Muhsin, a member of the Executive Council of the PLO, said, “There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity… Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.”

...

Finally, the charge of an “illegal occupation” of the “occupied West Bank” is a canard. Those territories, comprising the heartland of the ancient Jewish nations of Judea and Samaria, are _disputed_, their final disposition awaiting a peace treaty. There are no “borders” thought to define the mythical Palestinian nation. Those lines on the map are armistice lines, created after Israel defeated the armies of Syria, Jordan, and Egypt in 1967. By all rights as the victor, Israel could have incorporated the so-called West Bank into the state of Israel, on the same eternal wages of war that led to the American Southwest being incorporated into the U.S. after the 1846-48 war with Mexico, or of Prussian Germany into Poland after World War II. Indeed, since the territory in question was for thousands of years the homeland of the Jewish people, Israel would have had a _better_ case for restoring Judea and Samaria to Israel. Instead, in the Orwellian history created by Muslims and accepted by the West, the indigenous peoples are considered the “occupiers” of their own lands, and conquerors, invaders, and colonizers considered the disenfranchised victims.

The recent suicide-murders of random Israelis by Palestinians have been analyzed in terms that perpetuate this false history. Our intellectually challenged Secretary of State, John Kerry, referred to this false history when he said at Harvard, “There’s been a massive increase in settlement over the course of the last years and there’s an increase in the violence because there’s this frustration that’s growing,” he said. “Settlements” is nothing more than a mindless mantra, like “cycle of violence” or “checkpoints” or the “sanctity of the al-Aqsa mosque,” for the pusillanimous West, while for Muslims they are the pretexts for practicing their traditional Jew-hatred and sacralized violence.

The history this reporting on the Temple Mount ignores is the great forbearance, and to be sure tactical pragmatism, of the Israelis in leaving the Temple Mount under the management of the Arabs; while a mosque created as a triumphalist boast over conquered Christians and Jews, in a city never mentioned in the Koran, is respected more by the West than its own empty cathedrals. Meanwhile the travails of Muslim immigrants are hyped and agonized over more than the crucifixions, torture, rape, and murder of Christians in the greatest mass persecution of Christians in history.

These are the wages of historical ignorance and the acceptance of a history made up by an adversary who can “thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened,” as Orwell says of the Party in _1984_. Our foreign policy has often been predicated on these lies, and the outcome has been predictable when lies are the foundation of policies––the abject failure we are witnessing in the region today.


The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments


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## DarkFury

*4/5ths of Palestine WAS in Egypt. How much land have they given up? NOTHING.*


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## The Great Goose

It belongs to the people who were their 100 years ago. Period.


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## Searcher44

American_Jihad said:


> The " palestinians" are arab outcast from surrounding arab countries...
> 
> *The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments *
> * When lies are the foundation of policies. *
> October 16, 2015
> Bruce Thornton
> 
> Many of our policy debates and conflicts both domestic and foreign call on history to validate their positions. At home, crimes from the past like slavery and legal segregation are used to justify present policies ranging from racial set asides to housing regulations long after those institutions have been dismantled. Abroad, our jihadist enemies continually evoke the Crusades, “colonialism,” and “imperialism” as justifications for their violence. Yet the “history” used in such fashion is usually one-sided, simplistic, or downright false. Nor is the reason hard to find: as we read in _1984_, “Who controls the past . . . controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.” Bad history is a powerful instrument for gaining political power.
> 
> Nowhere is the abuse of history more rampant than in the Middle East. Since World War II all the problems whose origins lie in dysfunctional tribal and religious beliefs and behaviors have been laid at the feet of “colonialism” and “imperialism.” Western leftists––besotted both by a _marxiste_ hatred of liberal democracy, and by juvenile noble-savage Third-Worldism–– have legitimized this specious pretext, which now for many has become historical fact.
> 
> ...
> 
> Everything about this narrative is false. There is no such thing as a “Palestinian” people, an idea that arose only after the Six Day War of 1967. The bulk of the people mistakenly called “Palestinians” are ethnically, religiously, and linguistically indistinguishable from Arab Muslims in Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria. Numerous comments by Arab leaders before 1967 emphasized this fact. For example, Zouhair Muhsin, a member of the Executive Council of the PLO, said, “There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity… Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.”
> 
> ...
> 
> Finally, the charge of an “illegal occupation” of the “occupied West Bank” is a canard. Those territories, comprising the heartland of the ancient Jewish nations of Judea and Samaria, are _disputed_, their final disposition awaiting a peace treaty. There are no “borders” thought to define the mythical Palestinian nation. Those lines on the map are armistice lines, created after Israel defeated the armies of Syria, Jordan, and Egypt in 1967. By all rights as the victor, Israel could have incorporated the so-called West Bank into the state of Israel, on the same eternal wages of war that led to the American Southwest being incorporated into the U.S. after the 1846-48 war with Mexico, or of Prussian Germany into Poland after World War II. Indeed, since the territory in question was for thousands of years the homeland of the Jewish people, Israel would have had a _better_ case for restoring Judea and Samaria to Israel. Instead, in the Orwellian history created by Muslims and accepted by the West, the indigenous peoples are considered the “occupiers” of their own lands, and conquerors, invaders, and colonizers considered the disenfranchised victims.
> 
> The recent suicide-murders of random Israelis by Palestinians have been analyzed in terms that perpetuate this false history. Our intellectually challenged Secretary of State, John Kerry, referred to this false history when he said at Harvard, “There’s been a massive increase in settlement over the course of the last years and there’s an increase in the violence because there’s this frustration that’s growing,” he said. “Settlements” is nothing more than a mindless mantra, like “cycle of violence” or “checkpoints” or the “sanctity of the al-Aqsa mosque,” for the pusillanimous West, while for Muslims they are the pretexts for practicing their traditional Jew-hatred and sacralized violence.
> 
> The history this reporting on the Temple Mount ignores is the great forbearance, and to be sure tactical pragmatism, of the Israelis in leaving the Temple Mount under the management of the Arabs; while a mosque created as a triumphalist boast over conquered Christians and Jews, in a city never mentioned in the Koran, is respected more by the West than its own empty cathedrals. Meanwhile the travails of Muslim immigrants are hyped and agonized over more than the crucifixions, torture, rape, and murder of Christians in the greatest mass persecution of Christians in history.
> 
> These are the wages of historical ignorance and the acceptance of a history made up by an adversary who can “thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened,” as Orwell says of the Party in _1984_. Our foreign policy has often been predicated on these lies, and the outcome has been predictable when lies are the foundation of policies––the abject failure we are witnessing in the region today.
> 
> 
> The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments



He rails against  an "adversary who can “thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened,” as he “thrusts (his) hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened,”
He is the very definition of a Pedant in any case;
_pe·dan·ticpəˈdan(t)ik/
adjective
of or like a pedant.
"many of the essays are long, dense, and too pedantic to hold great appeal"
synonyms:    overscrupulous, scrupulous, precise, exact, perfectionist, punctilious, meticulous, fussy, fastidious, finicky; More_
Scan a couple of his essays here (Bruce Thornton) and you'll see what I mean. I think this is one Professor of Classics and Humanities who should leave history to the historians. Even if he's right I find him too annoying to read, he's so....pedantic.
Some here though will find his opinion of Donald Trump loud and clear and agreeable;
_
But we too, for now, seem to have a prophet. Whatever his flaws and weaknesses, Donald Trump has thrust the problems of lax immigration policies and weak enforcement of immigration laws back into the national conversation. Like Enoch Powell, politicians from both parties have tried to marginalize him. But in the age of the Internet, YouTube, and cable news, the citizens who agree with Trump can voice their approval more loudly than in Powell’s day. And they delight in the rough treatment he gives to immigration hacks like Univision’s Jorge Ramos, whom Trump tossed out of a news conference. Let’s just hope that a critical mass of people is listening, and that the Republicans embrace Trump’s warnings on illegal immigration instead of demonizing him._

Donald Trump a Prophet, imagine that.


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## Penelope

The Great Goose said:


> It belongs to the people who were their 100 years ago. Period.



Well the Zionist do not consider them "people".


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## Penelope

American_Jihad said:


> The " palestinians" are arab outcast from surrounding arab countries...
> 
> *The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments *
> * When lies are the foundation of policies. *
> October 16, 2015
> Bruce Thornton
> 
> Many of our policy debates and conflicts both domestic and foreign call on history to validate their positions. At home, crimes from the past like slavery and legal segregation are used to justify present policies ranging from racial set asides to housing regulations long after those institutions have been dismantled. Abroad, our jihadist enemies continually evoke the Crusades, “colonialism,” and “imperialism” as justifications for their violence. Yet the “history” used in such fashion is usually one-sided, simplistic, or downright false. Nor is the reason hard to find: as we read in _1984_, “Who controls the past . . . controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.” Bad history is a powerful instrument for gaining political power.
> 
> Nowhere is the abuse of history more rampant than in the Middle East. Since World War II all the problems whose origins lie in dysfunctional tribal and religious beliefs and behaviors have been laid at the feet of “colonialism” and “imperialism.” Western leftists––besotted both by a _marxiste_ hatred of liberal democracy, and by juvenile noble-savage Third-Worldism–– have legitimized this specious pretext, which now for many has become historical fact.
> 
> ...
> 
> Everything about this narrative is false. There is no such thing as a “Palestinian” people, an idea that arose only after the Six Day War of 1967. The bulk of the people mistakenly called “Palestinians” are ethnically, religiously, and linguistically indistinguishable from Arab Muslims in Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria. Numerous comments by Arab leaders before 1967 emphasized this fact. For example, Zouhair Muhsin, a member of the Executive Council of the PLO, said, “There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity… Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.”
> 
> ...
> 
> Finally, the charge of an “illegal occupation” of the “occupied West Bank” is a canard. Those territories, comprising the heartland of the ancient Jewish nations of Judea and Samaria, are _disputed_, their final disposition awaiting a peace treaty. There are no “borders” thought to define the mythical Palestinian nation. Those lines on the map are armistice lines, created after Israel defeated the armies of Syria, Jordan, and Egypt in 1967. By all rights as the victor, Israel could have incorporated the so-called West Bank into the state of Israel, on the same eternal wages of war that led to the American Southwest being incorporated into the U.S. after the 1846-48 war with Mexico, or of Prussian Germany into Poland after World War II. Indeed, since the territory in question was for thousands of years the homeland of the Jewish people, Israel would have had a _better_ case for restoring Judea and Samaria to Israel. Instead, in the Orwellian history created by Muslims and accepted by the West, the indigenous peoples are considered the “occupiers” of their own lands, and conquerors, invaders, and colonizers considered the disenfranchised victims.
> 
> The recent suicide-murders of random Israelis by Palestinians have been analyzed in terms that perpetuate this false history. Our intellectually challenged Secretary of State, John Kerry, referred to this false history when he said at Harvard, “There’s been a massive increase in settlement over the course of the last years and there’s an increase in the violence because there’s this frustration that’s growing,” he said. “Settlements” is nothing more than a mindless mantra, like “cycle of violence” or “checkpoints” or the “sanctity of the al-Aqsa mosque,” for the pusillanimous West, while for Muslims they are the pretexts for practicing their traditional Jew-hatred and sacralized violence.
> 
> The history this reporting on the Temple Mount ignores is the great forbearance, and to be sure tactical pragmatism, of the Israelis in leaving the Temple Mount under the management of the Arabs; while a mosque created as a triumphalist boast over conquered Christians and Jews, in a city never mentioned in the Koran, is respected more by the West than its own empty cathedrals. Meanwhile the travails of Muslim immigrants are hyped and agonized over more than the crucifixions, torture, rape, and murder of Christians in the greatest mass persecution of Christians in history.
> 
> These are the wages of historical ignorance and the acceptance of a history made up by an adversary who can “thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened,” as Orwell says of the Party in _1984_. Our foreign policy has often been predicated on these lies, and the outcome has been predictable when lies are the foundation of policies––the abject failure we are witnessing in the region today.
> 
> 
> The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments



Really Front Page Mag, a hate mag by Horowitz, Zionist commie who turned right wing after the cold war. Good for starting fires, also the writer is also a Zionist Islam hater right winger.  Of course the Palestinians were living in Palestine, 70% arabs in Palestine at turn of the century.


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## docmauser1

The Great Goose said:


> It belongs to the people who were their 100 years ago. Period.


_Their_ 100 years ago ist kaput, of course.


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## docmauser1

Penelope said:


> The Great Goose said:
> 
> 
> 
> It belongs to the people who were their 100 years ago. Period.
> 
> 
> 
> Well the Zionist do not consider them "people".
Click to expand...

Definitely something with them palistanians. They're transpeople, as in transgender, and they're shapeshifting too, when busted-up gunmen suddenly turn into women-children, or somesuch. So, who are they, indeed, if everything about them is provisional, conditional, indeterminate?


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## The Great Goose

Penelope said:


> The Great Goose said:
> 
> 
> 
> It belongs to the people who were their 100 years ago. Period.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well the Zionist do not consider them "people".
Click to expand...

Zionists don't consider anyone to be their equal. Though deep down they fear we are all better than them.

if only they could let good into their hearts. It's almost as though they have been blocked from enlightenment unconditionally. So much envy and hate.


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## docmauser1

Penelope said:


> Really Front Page Mag, a hate mag by Horowitz, Zionist commie who turned right wing after the cold war. Good for starting fires, also the writer is also a Zionist Islam hater right winger.  Of course the Palestinians were living in Palestine, 70% arabs in Palestine at turn of the century.


Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!


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## Penelope

docmauser1 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Front Page Mag, a hate mag by Horowitz, Zionist commie who turned right wing after the cold war. Good for starting fires, also the writer is also a Zionist Islam hater right winger.  Of course the Palestinians were living in Palestine, 70% arabs in Palestine at turn of the century.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
Click to expand...


Thanks to SA for putting ISIS in and us bombing the crap out of Syria, I'd run too.  (I believe Israel was also involved) What a waste, all the destruction, which will go into landfills, and so many dead. Big waste for a planet with finite resources.


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## docmauser1

Penelope said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Front Page Mag, a hate mag by Horowitz, Zionist commie who turned right wing after the cold war. Good for starting fires, also the writer is also a Zionist Islam hater right winger.  Of course the Palestinians were living in Palestine, 70% arabs in Palestine at turn of the century.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks to SA for putting ISIS in and us bombing the crap out of Syria, I'd run too.  (I believe Israel was also involved) What a waste, all the destruction, which will go into landfills, and so many dead. Big waste for a planet with finite resources.
Click to expand...

Oh, bog off.
Part of the US special operations folks hadn't flown home after a "withdrawal" from Iraq, landing in the nothern Jordan instead to train the alleged "syrian opposition", and the rest is history.
The US is "bombing" isis with free ammo.
And last, but not least, we learn from our dear penelope, albeit indirectly that, if Israel were in fact doing to palistanians, what palistanians allege being done to them and to suffer from, palistanians would be on their way to Europe by now. hehehehe
Conclusion: palistanians and penelopes are lying.


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## Penelope

docmauser1 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Front Page Mag, a hate mag by Horowitz, Zionist commie who turned right wing after the cold war. Good for starting fires, also the writer is also a Zionist Islam hater right winger.  Of course the Palestinians were living in Palestine, 70% arabs in Palestine at turn of the century.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks to SA for putting ISIS in and us bombing the crap out of Syria, I'd run too.  (I believe Israel was also involved) What a waste, all the destruction, which will go into landfills, and so many dead. Big waste for a planet with finite resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, bog off.
> Part of the US special operations folks hadn't flown home after a "withdrawal" from Iraq, landing in the nothern Jordan instead to train the alleged "syrian opposition", and the rest is history.
> The US is "bombing" isis with free ammo.
> And last, but not least, we learn from our dear penelope, albeit indirectly that, if Israel were in fact doing to palistanians, what palistanians allege being done to them and to suffer from, palistanians would be on their way to Europe by now. hehehehe
> Conclusion: palistanians and penelopes are lying.
Click to expand...


right where are they going to go, and the other issue is , they do not want to move.


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## Phoenall

The Great Goose said:


> It belongs to the people who were their 100 years ago. Period.







 So you admit that the Jews own it as the ottoman census shows they were the majority


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## Phoenall

Penelope said:


> The Great Goose said:
> 
> 
> 
> It belongs to the people who were their 100 years ago. Period.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well the Zionist do not consider them "people".
Click to expand...






 Read your koran and see what the Palestinians think of non muslims. The least offensive is to call them pigs, apes and dogs.


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## Phoenall

Penelope said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> The " palestinians" are arab outcast from surrounding arab countries...
> 
> *The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments *
> * When lies are the foundation of policies. *
> October 16, 2015
> Bruce Thornton
> 
> Many of our policy debates and conflicts both domestic and foreign call on history to validate their positions. At home, crimes from the past like slavery and legal segregation are used to justify present policies ranging from racial set asides to housing regulations long after those institutions have been dismantled. Abroad, our jihadist enemies continually evoke the Crusades, “colonialism,” and “imperialism” as justifications for their violence. Yet the “history” used in such fashion is usually one-sided, simplistic, or downright false. Nor is the reason hard to find: as we read in _1984_, “Who controls the past . . . controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.” Bad history is a powerful instrument for gaining political power.
> 
> Nowhere is the abuse of history more rampant than in the Middle East. Since World War II all the problems whose origins lie in dysfunctional tribal and religious beliefs and behaviors have been laid at the feet of “colonialism” and “imperialism.” Western leftists––besotted both by a _marxiste_ hatred of liberal democracy, and by juvenile noble-savage Third-Worldism–– have legitimized this specious pretext, which now for many has become historical fact.
> 
> ...
> 
> Everything about this narrative is false. There is no such thing as a “Palestinian” people, an idea that arose only after the Six Day War of 1967. The bulk of the people mistakenly called “Palestinians” are ethnically, religiously, and linguistically indistinguishable from Arab Muslims in Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria. Numerous comments by Arab leaders before 1967 emphasized this fact. For example, Zouhair Muhsin, a member of the Executive Council of the PLO, said, “There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity… Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.”
> 
> ...
> 
> Finally, the charge of an “illegal occupation” of the “occupied West Bank” is a canard. Those territories, comprising the heartland of the ancient Jewish nations of Judea and Samaria, are _disputed_, their final disposition awaiting a peace treaty. There are no “borders” thought to define the mythical Palestinian nation. Those lines on the map are armistice lines, created after Israel defeated the armies of Syria, Jordan, and Egypt in 1967. By all rights as the victor, Israel could have incorporated the so-called West Bank into the state of Israel, on the same eternal wages of war that led to the American Southwest being incorporated into the U.S. after the 1846-48 war with Mexico, or of Prussian Germany into Poland after World War II. Indeed, since the territory in question was for thousands of years the homeland of the Jewish people, Israel would have had a _better_ case for restoring Judea and Samaria to Israel. Instead, in the Orwellian history created by Muslims and accepted by the West, the indigenous peoples are considered the “occupiers” of their own lands, and conquerors, invaders, and colonizers considered the disenfranchised victims.
> 
> The recent suicide-murders of random Israelis by Palestinians have been analyzed in terms that perpetuate this false history. Our intellectually challenged Secretary of State, John Kerry, referred to this false history when he said at Harvard, “There’s been a massive increase in settlement over the course of the last years and there’s an increase in the violence because there’s this frustration that’s growing,” he said. “Settlements” is nothing more than a mindless mantra, like “cycle of violence” or “checkpoints” or the “sanctity of the al-Aqsa mosque,” for the pusillanimous West, while for Muslims they are the pretexts for practicing their traditional Jew-hatred and sacralized violence.
> 
> The history this reporting on the Temple Mount ignores is the great forbearance, and to be sure tactical pragmatism, of the Israelis in leaving the Temple Mount under the management of the Arabs; while a mosque created as a triumphalist boast over conquered Christians and Jews, in a city never mentioned in the Koran, is respected more by the West than its own empty cathedrals. Meanwhile the travails of Muslim immigrants are hyped and agonized over more than the crucifixions, torture, rape, and murder of Christians in the greatest mass persecution of Christians in history.
> 
> These are the wages of historical ignorance and the acceptance of a history made up by an adversary who can “thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened,” as Orwell says of the Party in _1984_. Our foreign policy has often been predicated on these lies, and the outcome has been predictable when lies are the foundation of policies––the abject failure we are witnessing in the region today.
> 
> 
> The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really Front Page Mag, a hate mag by Horowitz, Zionist commie who turned right wing after the cold war. Good for starting fires, also the writer is also a Zionist Islam hater right winger.  Of course the Palestinians were living in Palestine, 70% arabs in Palestine at turn of the century.
Click to expand...






 Not according to the Ottoman census, or are you calling the sovereign land owners liars now.


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## Phoenall

The Great Goose said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Great Goose said:
> 
> 
> 
> It belongs to the people who were their 100 years ago. Period.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well the Zionist do not consider them "people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionists don't consider anyone to be their equal. Though deep down they fear we are all better than them.
> 
> if only they could let good into their hearts. It's almost as though they have been blocked from enlightenment unconditionally. So much envy and hate.
Click to expand...






I am a Zionist and I have many equals, not many on this board though. How do you like them apples, and what do you have to say in your defence


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## American_Jihad

*Farfour's Curse *
* Palestinian children are taught to hate with their ABCs and hate they duly do. *
October 21, 2015
Tibor Krausz






Palestinians have been stabbing random Israelis daily for weeks, and on cue myriad foreign commentators have been trotting out the usual "root causes" arguments to explain their actions: Israeli settlements, Palestinians' collective despair, the Netanyahu government's policies.

Then again, we could just as well blame Farfour.

A bellicose and excitable Mickey Mouse clone with a whiny voice, Farfour was a costumed character on a popular Palestinian children's educational program, "Tomorrow's Pioneers," on the Hamas-run Al-Aqsa TV. The Farfour show was not concerned with innocent horseplay to entertain the kiddos and teach them their ABCs. Instead, the creepy rodent taught Palestinian children about the glories of jihad. In one episode he exhorted "tomorrow's pioneers" (i.e. future jihadists) to liberate "all of Palestine" (i.e. the land of Israel) from the Jewish usurpers. "Beloved Palestine taught us to be soldiers of Allah," a young boy sang as Farhoud cheered. "Oh Jerusalem it's the time of death and we will fight a war."

During a subsequent episode, Farfour, who liked to rhapsodize about the AK-47 assault rifle to Palestinian children, came to an untimely death "at the hands of the criminals, the murderers of innocent children" — Israelis. Farfour was replaced by equally spiteful characters who carried on demonizing Israelis in his stead: Nahoul the bee and Assoud the rabbit. Assoud threatened to "finish off the Jews and eat them" before he, too, wound up murdered by the Jews. On his deathbed he urged Palestinian children to avenge him by "liberating" Haifa and Tel Aviv.

And so the pathologies of older generations have been passed down to the youngest ones. That Hamas ideologues think nothing of employing cuddly animals for ensnaring children's minds in their own hateful and homicidal ideology is right up there with the depravity of Nazi propagandists who in storybooks like _The Poisonous Mushroom_ sought to indoctrinate German children against Jews through outrageous libels dressed up as cautionary fairy tales.

Were Ahmed and Hassan Manasra, 13 and 15 respectively, fans of Farhoud and his friends? We may never know. What we do know is that Al Aqsa TV's mascots (or rather, their creators) would have approved of these two Palestinian cousins, who recently stabbed two Israelis in the Jerusalem neighborhood of Pisgat Ze'ev. One of the victims was a 13-year-old boy who was out on a ride on his bicycle and barely survived being stabbed repeatedly. The boy, the same age as Ahmed, was knifed simply for being a Jew. Ahmed and Hassan chanced upon him, outside a convenience store, in their search for some Israeli passersby to murder, following the example of myriad other wannabe _shahids_ (martyrs). "I went there to stab Jews," Ahmed, who was hit by a car while fleeing the scene, told Israeli police. Hassan was shot dead when, with a knife in hand, he tried to charge an Israeli policeman in an incident captured on CCTV cameras.

...

They certainly did. This is what that lesson is: yet another generation of Palestinians has been brainwashed into a murderous hatred of Jews. 

Farfour's Curse


----------



## Hossfly

Penelope said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> The " palestinians" are arab outcast from surrounding arab countries...
> 
> *The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments *
> * When lies are the foundation of policies. *
> October 16, 2015
> Bruce Thornton
> 
> Many of our policy debates and conflicts both domestic and foreign call on history to validate their positions. At home, crimes from the past like slavery and legal segregation are used to justify present policies ranging from racial set asides to housing regulations long after those institutions have been dismantled. Abroad, our jihadist enemies continually evoke the Crusades, “colonialism,” and “imperialism” as justifications for their violence. Yet the “history” used in such fashion is usually one-sided, simplistic, or downright false. Nor is the reason hard to find: as we read in _1984_, “Who controls the past . . . controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.” Bad history is a powerful instrument for gaining political power.
> 
> Nowhere is the abuse of history more rampant than in the Middle East. Since World War II all the problems whose origins lie in dysfunctional tribal and religious beliefs and behaviors have been laid at the feet of “colonialism” and “imperialism.” Western leftists––besotted both by a _marxiste_ hatred of liberal democracy, and by juvenile noble-savage Third-Worldism–– have legitimized this specious pretext, which now for many has become historical fact.
> 
> ...
> 
> Everything about this narrative is false. There is no such thing as a “Palestinian” people, an idea that arose only after the Six Day War of 1967. The bulk of the people mistakenly called “Palestinians” are ethnically, religiously, and linguistically indistinguishable from Arab Muslims in Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria. Numerous comments by Arab leaders before 1967 emphasized this fact. For example, Zouhair Muhsin, a member of the Executive Council of the PLO, said, “There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity… Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.”
> 
> ...
> 
> Finally, the charge of an “illegal occupation” of the “occupied West Bank” is a canard. Those territories, comprising the heartland of the ancient Jewish nations of Judea and Samaria, are _disputed_, their final disposition awaiting a peace treaty. There are no “borders” thought to define the mythical Palestinian nation. Those lines on the map are armistice lines, created after Israel defeated the armies of Syria, Jordan, and Egypt in 1967. By all rights as the victor, Israel could have incorporated the so-called West Bank into the state of Israel, on the same eternal wages of war that led to the American Southwest being incorporated into the U.S. after the 1846-48 war with Mexico, or of Prussian Germany into Poland after World War II. Indeed, since the territory in question was for thousands of years the homeland of the Jewish people, Israel would have had a _better_ case for restoring Judea and Samaria to Israel. Instead, in the Orwellian history created by Muslims and accepted by the West, the indigenous peoples are considered the “occupiers” of their own lands, and conquerors, invaders, and colonizers considered the disenfranchised victims.
> 
> The recent suicide-murders of random Israelis by Palestinians have been analyzed in terms that perpetuate this false history. Our intellectually challenged Secretary of State, John Kerry, referred to this false history when he said at Harvard, “There’s been a massive increase in settlement over the course of the last years and there’s an increase in the violence because there’s this frustration that’s growing,” he said. “Settlements” is nothing more than a mindless mantra, like “cycle of violence” or “checkpoints” or the “sanctity of the al-Aqsa mosque,” for the pusillanimous West, while for Muslims they are the pretexts for practicing their traditional Jew-hatred and sacralized violence.
> 
> The history this reporting on the Temple Mount ignores is the great forbearance, and to be sure tactical pragmatism, of the Israelis in leaving the Temple Mount under the management of the Arabs; while a mosque created as a triumphalist boast over conquered Christians and Jews, in a city never mentioned in the Koran, is respected more by the West than its own empty cathedrals. Meanwhile the travails of Muslim immigrants are hyped and agonized over more than the crucifixions, torture, rape, and murder of Christians in the greatest mass persecution of Christians in history.
> 
> These are the wages of historical ignorance and the acceptance of a history made up by an adversary who can “thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened,” as Orwell says of the Party in _1984_. Our foreign policy has often been predicated on these lies, and the outcome has been predictable when lies are the foundation of policies––the abject failure we are witnessing in the region today.
> 
> 
> The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really Front Page Mag, a hate mag by Horowitz, Zionist commie who turned right wing after the cold war. Good for starting fires, also the writer is also a Zionist Islam hater right winger.  Of course the Palestinians were living in Palestine, 70% arabs in Palestine at turn of the century.
Click to expand...

So, anyone who reports or repeats the stark truth is a hate site, huh?  Got it.


----------



## MJB12741

docmauser1 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Front Page Mag, a hate mag by Horowitz, Zionist commie who turned right wing after the cold war. Good for starting fires, also the writer is also a Zionist Islam hater right winger.  Of course the Palestinians were living in Palestine, 70% arabs in Palestine at turn of the century.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
Click to expand...


Any churches or synagogues still left in Dearborn MI?


----------



## Penelope

MJB12741 said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Front Page Mag, a hate mag by Horowitz, Zionist commie who turned right wing after the cold war. Good for starting fires, also the writer is also a Zionist Islam hater right winger.  Of course the Palestinians were living in Palestine, 70% arabs in Palestine at turn of the century.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any churches or synagogues still left in Dearborn MI?
Click to expand...


Might want to write to the RC mayor and see what he says, I'm sure there are. See the only problem in Dearborn is when evangelical Christians come and start preaching to the Muslims.


----------



## Penelope

docmauser1 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Front Page Mag, a hate mag by Horowitz, Zionist commie who turned right wing after the cold war. Good for starting fires, also the writer is also a Zionist Islam hater right winger.  Of course the Palestinians were living in Palestine, 70% arabs in Palestine at turn of the century.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
Click to expand...


I am positive the arabs said the same about the zionist,  one blink and the land was full of Zionist.


----------



## American_Jihad

*The Mufti, Hitler and the Palestinians: The Facts*
* The father of the modern Palestinian movement and his role in the Final Solution. *
October 22, 2015
David Bedein







...

The affidavit of one of Eichmann’s subordinates, SS Hampsturmfuerer Dieter Wisliceny, who appeared as a witness for the Nuremberg prosecution, speaks for itself:

The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry for the Germans and had been the permanent collaborator and advisor of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of the plan…According to my opinion, the Grand Mufti, who had been in Berlin since 1941, played a role in the decision of the German government to exterminate the European Jews, the importance of which must not be disregarded. He had repeatedly suggested to the various authorities with who[m he] had been in contact, above all before Hitler, Ribbentrop and Himmler, the extermination of European Jewry. He considered this as a comfortable solution of the Palestinian problem. In his messages broadcast from Berlin, he surpassed us in anti-Jewish attacks. He was one of Eichmann’s best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures…

In 1961, when Eichmann was brought to justice in Jerusalem, Israel’s then foreign minister, Golda Meir, called for the Mossad to apprehend the Mufti and to sit him alongside Eichmann on trial in Jerusalem.

Maurice Pearlman traces the Mufti’s escape to Cairo, where Pearlman reported how the Mufti influenced the newly formed Arab League to spawn the charter of the Arab League, with an explicit statement that its purpose was to wipe out any Zionist entity that would soon come about.

Indeed, the Mufti-inspired charter of the Arab League would soon form the basis of the Arab league declaration of war to destroy the nascent state of Israel in 1948.

The refusal of the UK to arrest the Mufti in Cairo, described by Pearlman, caused the head of the Zionist revisionists in the United States at the time, Ben Zion Netanyahu, father of Israel’s current Prime Minister, to launch an unsuccessful campaign to push the US to demand the arrest of the Mufti in Cairo.

A little known fact concerns the Mufti’s special relationship with a young relative in Cairo, to whom the Mufti would affectionately give the name “Yassir Arafat.” In December 1996, Haaretz interviewed Yassir Arafat’s younger brother and sister, who said that the Mufti performed the role of a surrogate father figure and mentor to the young Arafat.

The failure of the Arab League, in 1948, to mobilize the Arabs of Palestine into an active war against the newly formed Jewish state led the Mufti to urge the Arab League, in 1964, to launch the PLO, the Palestine Liberation Organization, whose stated covenant of purpose was almost identical in language to the charter of the Arab League: to exterminate the new state of Israel. Yet the focus of the PLO was to organize Arabs who remained in Israel along with the Arab refugees who languished in UNRWA refugee camps to organize an effective grass roots effort to liberate Palestine, all of Palestine, from Jewish rule.

Today, the new curriculum of the Palestinian Authority is imbued with the legacy of the Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin Al Husseini, whose vision of a Jew-free Palestine is taught in every educational institution of the Palestinian Authority, together with the armed struggle to liberate Palestine, as an ideal for Palestinian Arab students.

On January 4, 2013, Mahmoud Abbas, spoke glowingly of the legacy of the Godfather of the PLO, the Mufti of Jerusalem, via video link on a wide screen to the masses in Gaza, who gathered to celebrate the founding of Fatah (Arabic word for "conquest"), otherwise known as the Palestine Liberation Organization.

Abbas praised the Mufti as a man whose ways should be emulated by all Palestinian Arabs. "We must remember the pioneers, the Grand Mufti of Palestine, Hajj Muhammad Amin Al-Husseini, as well as Ahmad Al-Shukeiri, the founder of the PLO," Abbas said, according to a translation of the speech made by the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI).

The Mufti, Hitler and the Palestinians: The Facts


----------



## montelatici

"Meretz leader Zehava Galon also criticized Netanyahu's comments: "This is not a Jörg Haider speech. It's not a part of [Mahmoud] Abbas' doctorate. It's a real quote from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu," she said. *"Maybe the 33,771 Jews murdered in Babi Yar in September 1941 – two months before the Mufti and Hitler met - should be exhumed and updated that the Nazis didn't mean to destroy them*." Those who can't change the future, she said, "are left with rewriting the past."

read more: Opposition blasts Netanyahu for 'distorting' Holocaust history - Israel News


----------



## American_Jihad

*Crazy Like a Fox*
* What Netanyahu's "gaffe" about the Mufti and the Holocaust accomplished. *
October 23, 2015
Caroline Glick






_Originally published by the __Jerusalem Post__. _

Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu is crazy like a fox.

Netanyahu’s assertion on Tuesday before the World Zionist Congress that the founder of the Palestinian people, Haj Amin al-Husseini, convinced Adolf Hitler to eradicate rather than expel the Jews of Europe was an overstatement of Husseini’s role.

No, the Holocaust was not Husseini’s idea.

But he was a partner in perpetrating and promoting it. He also made it inevitable.

As I detailed in my book The Israeli Solution: A One-State Plan for Peace in the Middle East, during the course of Husseini’s meeting with Hitler in Berlin in November 1941, Hitler told the Arab leader of his plan to eradicate European Jewry.

Husseini told Hitler that he would support the Nazis, and rally the Arab world to their side, if Hitler agreed to two conditions: that Hitler support his bid to rule over a postwar Arab state comprised of present-day Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Israel; and that Hitler support the genocide of Middle Eastern Jewry.

As both the official Nazi record and Husseini’s summary of the meeting in his diary report, Hitler accepted Husseini’s demands.

And it makes sense that he did.

Husseini proved his loyalty to the Nazis long before he arrived in Berlin. His romance with them began with Hitler’s election victory in 1933. From then on, Husseini’s followers in Mandatory Palestine greeted one another with the Nazi salute. Swastikas festooned their towns. The Nazis began directly funding Husseini’s terror war against the Jews of Israel and British Mandatory officials in 1937.

In 1937, the British forced Husseini to flee the country. In 1941, he organized and incited a pro-Nazi military coup in Iraq. The British were forced to invade Iraq in response to the coup.

Husseini then fled to Rome where he met with Mussolini and went on the Berlin, where he remained for the duration of the war.

As the grand mufti of Jerusalem, Husseini invented and shaped the Palestinian national ethos in a manner that aligned with his pathological hatred of the Jews. Rather than providing the Palestinian Arabs with a positive vision of a future state that would safeguard and cultivate them as a distinct Arab nation, he shaped Palestinian society as a wholly negative phenomenon. It was seeded in a hybrid hatred of Jews that fused Koranic hostility to Jews with racism-based annihilationist European anti-Semitism rooted in The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which Husseini translated and published in Arabic.

The goal of Husseini’s nationalist drive was not to form a Palestinian Arab state, but to prevent the establishment of a Jewish state and to annihilate all aspects of the Jewish national liberation movement through a campaign a terror and political warfare.

Husseini’s goal of leading an Arab state that encompassed Iraq and the entire Levant shows that the founding father of the Palestinian national project did not view “Palestine” as a distinct territorial entity.

After Hitler agreed to both of Husseini’s conditions, Husseini began his active collaboration in the Nazi war effort. He participated in the Holocaust directly. In 1943, he formed the SS Handschar Division comprised of Bosnian Muslims. His troops exterminated 90 percent of Bosnia’s 14,000-member Jewish community.

Husseini used his position as well to scuttle British attempts to trade German prisoners of war for Jews. In one such documented episode, in 1943 Husseini appealed to SS commander Heinrich Himmler to cancel a deal to exchange 4,500 Jewish children and 500 Jewish adults from Hungary, Slovakia, Romania and Bulgaria to cancel the deal and send the Jews to Auschwitz.

Himmler bowed to his appeal. The Jews were sent to the gas chambers.

Husseini contributed to the Holocaust indirectly.

...

By exaggerating Husseini’s importance in the Holocaust, Netanyahu gave the media a means of attacking him. But by doing so, he forced the Times to report on the Palestinians’ founding father’s role in destroying European Jewry and his desire to carry out the Final Solution in the Middle East. They would have ignored the issue if Netanyahu had not exaggerated his actual role.

Due to his “gaffe,” every Western media outlet reported on Husseini’s actions. Some even mentioned that in his PhD dissertation, current Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas said the Holocaust was both a myth and a joint Zionist-Nazi project. For most Westerners, this is the first they’ve heard of the fact that the Palestinian’s George Washington was a Nazi war criminal.

Like I said, crazy as a fox.

Crazy Like a Fox

Check this out... Amin Al Husseini: Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood


----------



## Billo_Really

So...............*A_J*..................you wanna post horseshit?




American_Jihad said:


> The " palestinians" are arab outcast from surrounding arab countries...
> 
> *The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments *
> * When lies are the foundation of policies. *
> October 16, 2015
> Bruce Thornton
> 
> Many of our policy debates and conflicts both domestic and foreign call on history to validate their positions. At home, crimes from the past like slavery and legal segregation are used to justify present policies ranging from racial set asides to housing regulations long after those institutions have been dismantled. Abroad, our jihadist enemies continually evoke the Crusades, “colonialism,” and “imperialism” as justifications for their violence. Yet the “history” used in such fashion is usually one-sided, simplistic, or downright false. Nor is the reason hard to find: as we read in _1984_, “Who controls the past . . . controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.” Bad history is a powerful instrument for gaining political power.
> 
> Nowhere is the abuse of history more rampant than in the Middle East. Since World War II all the problems whose origins lie in dysfunctional tribal and religious beliefs and behaviors have been laid at the feet of “colonialism” and “imperialism.” Western leftists––besotted both by a _marxiste_ hatred of liberal democracy, and by juvenile noble-savage Third-Worldism–– have legitimized this specious pretext, which now for many has become historical fact.


Boy did that set the record for the most words that said nothing at all!




American_Jihad said:


> Everything about this narrative is false. There is no such thing as a “Palestinian” people, an idea that arose only after the Six Day War of 1967. The bulk of the people mistakenly called “Palestinians” are ethnically, religiously, and linguistically indistinguishable from Arab Muslims in Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria. Numerous comments by Arab leaders before 1967 emphasized this fact. For example, Zouhair Muhsin, a member of the Executive Council of the PLO, said, “There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity… Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.”


Their "identity", doesn't matter.  What name they go by, or name you call them, has nothing to do with this issue.  In fact, you can completely take "them" out of this equation, because it all boils down to Israel occupying land they have no clear title to.




American_Jihad said:


> Finally, the charge of an “illegal occupation” of the “occupied West Bank” is a canard. Those territories, comprising the heartland of the ancient Jewish nations of Judea and Samaria, are _disputed_, their final disposition awaiting a peace treaty.


 That is total horseshit!  This is just Israel trying to re-frame the debate into "disputed" territories.  I'm sorry, they've been occupied territories since 1967 and you fuckers are not going to redefine it now.




American_Jihad said:


> There are no “borders” thought to define the mythical Palestinian nation. Those lines on the map are armistice lines, created after Israel defeated the armies of Syria, Jordan, and Egypt in 1967.


Why bring this up?  Israel refuses to honor the '67 borders, which they will be eventually forced to.




American_Jihad said:


> By all rights as the victor, Israel could have incorporated the so-called West Bank into the state of Israel, on the same eternal wages of war that led to the American Southwest being incorporated into the U.S. after the 1846-48 war with Mexico, or of Prussian Germany into Poland after World War II.


Except for the fact that* "Conquer by Conquest"* has been outlawed since the end of WWII.




American_Jihad said:


> Indeed, since the territory in question was for thousands of years the homeland of the Jewish people, Israel would have had a _better_ case for restoring Judea and Samaria to Israel. Instead, in the Orwellian history created by Muslims and accepted by the West, the indigenous peoples are considered the “occupiers” of their own lands, and conquerors, invaders, and colonizers considered the disenfranchised victims.


The "indigenous peoples" are Palestinian-Arabs and Palestinian-Jews, who had been living in that area for the last 2000 years.




American_Jihad said:


> The recent suicide-murders of random Israelis by Palestinians have been analyzed in terms that perpetuate this false history. Our intellectually challenged Secretary of State, John Kerry, referred to this false history when he said at Harvard, “There’s been a massive increase in settlement over the course of the last years and there’s an increase in the violence because there’s this frustration that’s growing,” he said.


The occupation is the cause of all the violence, recent or otherwise.




American_Jihad said:


> “Settlements” is nothing more than a mindless mantra, like “cycle of violence” or “checkpoints” or the “sanctity of the al-Aqsa mosque,” for the pusillanimous West, while for Muslims they are the pretexts for practicing their traditional Jew-hatred and sacralized violence.


The over 500 checkpoints and roadblocks are _"...nothing more than a mindless mantra"?
_
Does this look like something in your mind?






Horowitz, you scumbag liar, does this look like its only in your mind?







The shit you say gets more ridiculous every time you open your fucked up mouths.




American_Jihad said:


> The history this reporting on the Temple Mount ignores is the great forbearance, and to be sure tactical pragmatism, of the Israelis in leaving the Temple Mount under the management of the Arabs; while a mosque created as a triumphalist boast over conquered Christians and Jews, in a city never mentioned in the Koran, is respected more by the West than its own empty cathedrals. Meanwhile the travails of Muslim immigrants are hyped and agonized over more than the crucifixions, torture, rape, and murder of Christians in the greatest mass persecution of Christians in history.


Looks like you're the ones trying to wipe them off the map?




American_Jihad said:


> These are the wages of historical ignorance and the acceptance of a history made up by an adversary who can “thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened,” as Orwell says of the Party in _1984_. Our foreign policy has often been predicated on these lies, and the outcome has been predictable when lies are the foundation of policies––the abject failure we are witnessing in the region today.
> 
> The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments


And yours are ramblings of hysterical assholes, who are heading for their own beat down, just like the world did to Nazi Germany.


----------



## docmauser1

Penelope said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Front Page Mag, a hate mag by Horowitz, Zionist commie who turned right wing after the cold war. Good for starting fires, also the writer is also a Zionist Islam hater right winger.  Of course the Palestinians were living in Palestine, 70% arabs in Palestine at turn of the century.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Any churches or synagogues still left in Dearborn MI?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Might want to write to the RC mayor and see what he says, I'm sure there are. See the only problem in Dearborn is when evangelical Christians come and start preaching to the Muslims.
Click to expand...

Indeed, it interferes with their hijra antics, doesn't it?


----------



## docmauser1

Penelope said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Front Page Mag, a hate mag by Horowitz, Zionist commie who turned right wing after the cold war. Good for starting fires, also the writer is also a Zionist Islam hater right winger.  Of course the Palestinians were living in Palestine, 70% arabs in Palestine at turn of the century.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am positive the arabs said the same about the zionist,  one blink and the land was full of Zionist.
Click to expand...

Arabs have said muuuucho bullish, so far, it's difficult to try and keep track of it all, of course.


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> "Meretz leader Zehava Galon also criticized Netanyahu's comments: "This is not a Jörg Haider speech. It's not a part of [Mahmoud] Abbas' doctorate. It's a real quote from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu," she said. *"Maybe the 33,771 Jews murdered in Babi Yar in September 1941 – two months before the Mufti and Hitler met - should be exhumed and updated that the Nazis didn't mean to destroy them*." Those who can't change the future, she said, "are left with rewriting the past."read more: Opposition blasts Netanyahu for 'distorting' Holocaust history - Israel News


Funny, what's her leftist nazi problem this time?


----------



## docmauser1

Billo_Really said:


> That is total horseshit!  This is just Israel trying to re-frame the debate into "disputed" territories.


Israel is, indeed, generous. Others wouldn't be doing same and would boot palistanians, that haven't had any land to bray occupation in the first place, outtttt instead, of course.


Billo_Really said:


> I'm sorry, they've been occupied territories since 1967 and you fuckers are not going to redefine it now.


Clearly the lands are palistan-occupied, whatever the date, of course.


----------



## docmauser1

Penelope said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Front Page Mag, a hate mag by Horowitz, Zionist commie who turned right wing after the cold war. Good for starting fires, also the writer is also a Zionist Islam hater right winger.  Of course the Palestinians were living in Palestine, 70% arabs in Palestine at turn of the century.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks to SA for putting ISIS in and us bombing the crap out of Syria, I'd run too.  (I believe Israel was also involved) What a waste, all the destruction, which will go into landfills, and so many dead. Big waste for a planet with finite resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, bog off.
> Part of the US special operations folks hadn't flown home after a "withdrawal" from Iraq, landing in the nothern Jordan instead to train the alleged "syrian opposition", and the rest is history.
> The US is "bombing" isis with free ammo.
> And last, but not least, we learn from our dear penelope, albeit indirectly that, if Israel were in fact doing to palistanians, what palistanians allege being done to them and to suffer from, palistanians would be on their way to Europe by now. hehehehe
> Conclusion: palistanians and penelopes are lying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> right where are they going to go, ...
Click to expand...

Oh, eurohypocrites have found ways to accomodate, lybians, pakistanis, moroccans, algerians, etc., described collectively as "syrian refugees", what then makes palistanians the "chosen people"?


Penelope said:


> ... and the other issue is , they do not want to move.


Dreams of driving jews out and of plundering jewish property won't die overnight, of course.


----------



## docmauser1

Phoenall said:


> I am a Zionist and I have many equals, not many on this board though. How do you like them apples, and what do you have to say in your defence


That's a funny joke, indeed.


----------



## Penelope

docmauser1 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Front Page Mag, a hate mag by Horowitz, Zionist commie who turned right wing after the cold war. Good for starting fires, also the writer is also a Zionist Islam hater right winger.  Of course the Palestinians were living in Palestine, 70% arabs in Palestine at turn of the century.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks to SA for putting ISIS in and us bombing the crap out of Syria, I'd run too.  (I believe Israel was also involved) What a waste, all the destruction, which will go into landfills, and so many dead. Big waste for a planet with finite resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, bog off.
> Part of the US special operations folks hadn't flown home after a "withdrawal" from Iraq, landing in the nothern Jordan instead to train the alleged "syrian opposition", and the rest is history.
> The US is "bombing" isis with free ammo.
> And last, but not least, we learn from our dear penelope, albeit indirectly that, if Israel were in fact doing to palistanians, what palistanians allege being done to them and to suffer from, palistanians would be on their way to Europe by now. hehehehe
> Conclusion: palistanians and penelopes are lying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> right where are they going to go, ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, eurohypocrites have found ways to accomodate, lybians, pakistanis, moroccans, algerians, etc., described collectively as "syrian refugees", what then makes palistanians the "chosen people"?
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... and the other issue is , they do not want to move.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dreams of driving jews out and of plundering jewish property won't die overnight, of course.
Click to expand...


That Hebrew property use to belong to the Palestinians less than 75 years ago as as late as 1 year ago as the Hebrews are still stealing land.


----------



## docmauser1

Penelope said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to SA for putting ISIS in and us bombing the crap out of Syria, I'd run too.  (I believe Israel was also involved) What a waste, all the destruction, which will go into landfills, and so many dead. Big waste for a planet with finite resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, bog off.
> Part of the US special operations folks hadn't flown home after a "withdrawal" from Iraq, landing in the nothern Jordan instead to train the alleged "syrian opposition", and the rest is history.
> The US is "bombing" isis with free ammo.
> And last, but not least, we learn from our dear penelope, albeit indirectly that, if Israel were in fact doing to palistanians, what palistanians allege being done to them and to suffer from, palistanians would be on their way to Europe by now. hehehehe
> Conclusion: palistanians and penelopes are lying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> right where are they going to go, ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, eurohypocrites have found ways to accomodate, lybians, pakistanis, moroccans, algerians, etc., described collectively as "syrian refugees", what then makes palistanians the "chosen people"?
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... and the other issue is , they do not want to move.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dreams of driving jews out and of plundering jewish property won't die overnight, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That Hebrew property use to belong to the Palestinians less than 75 years ago as as late as 1 year ago as the Hebrews are still stealing land.
Click to expand...

I know that palistanian folklore, I know, of course.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> So...............*A_J*..................you wanna post horseshit?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> The " palestinians" are arab outcast from surrounding arab countries...
> 
> *The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments *
> * When lies are the foundation of policies. *
> October 16, 2015
> Bruce Thornton
> 
> Many of our policy debates and conflicts both domestic and foreign call on history to validate their positions. At home, crimes from the past like slavery and legal segregation are used to justify present policies ranging from racial set asides to housing regulations long after those institutions have been dismantled. Abroad, our jihadist enemies continually evoke the Crusades, “colonialism,” and “imperialism” as justifications for their violence. Yet the “history” used in such fashion is usually one-sided, simplistic, or downright false. Nor is the reason hard to find: as we read in _1984_, “Who controls the past . . . controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.” Bad history is a powerful instrument for gaining political power.
> 
> Nowhere is the abuse of history more rampant than in the Middle East. Since World War II all the problems whose origins lie in dysfunctional tribal and religious beliefs and behaviors have been laid at the feet of “colonialism” and “imperialism.” Western leftists––besotted both by a _marxiste_ hatred of liberal democracy, and by juvenile noble-savage Third-Worldism–– have legitimized this specious pretext, which now for many has become historical fact.
> 
> 
> 
> Boy did that set the record for the most words that said nothing at all!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everything about this narrative is false. There is no such thing as a “Palestinian” people, an idea that arose only after the Six Day War of 1967. The bulk of the people mistakenly called “Palestinians” are ethnically, religiously, and linguistically indistinguishable from Arab Muslims in Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria. Numerous comments by Arab leaders before 1967 emphasized this fact. For example, Zouhair Muhsin, a member of the Executive Council of the PLO, said, “There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity… Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Their "identity", doesn't matter.  What name they go by, or name you call them, has nothing to do with this issue.  In fact, you can completely take "them" out of this equation, because it all boils down to Israel occupying land they have no clear title to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, the charge of an “illegal occupation” of the “occupied West Bank” is a canard. Those territories, comprising the heartland of the ancient Jewish nations of Judea and Samaria, are _disputed_, their final disposition awaiting a peace treaty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is total horseshit!  This is just Israel trying to re-frame the debate into "disputed" territories.  I'm sorry, they've been occupied territories since 1967 and you fuckers are not going to redefine it now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are no “borders” thought to define the mythical Palestinian nation. Those lines on the map are armistice lines, created after Israel defeated the armies of Syria, Jordan, and Egypt in 1967.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why bring this up?  Israel refuses to honor the '67 borders, which they will be eventually forced to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> By all rights as the victor, Israel could have incorporated the so-called West Bank into the state of Israel, on the same eternal wages of war that led to the American Southwest being incorporated into the U.S. after the 1846-48 war with Mexico, or of Prussian Germany into Poland after World War II.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Except for the fact that* "Conquer by Conquest"* has been outlawed since the end of WWII.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, since the territory in question was for thousands of years the homeland of the Jewish people, Israel would have had a _better_ case for restoring Judea and Samaria to Israel. Instead, in the Orwellian history created by Muslims and accepted by the West, the indigenous peoples are considered the “occupiers” of their own lands, and conquerors, invaders, and colonizers considered the disenfranchised victims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "indigenous peoples" are Palestinian-Arabs and Palestinian-Jews, who had been living in that area for the last 2000 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> The recent suicide-murders of random Israelis by Palestinians have been analyzed in terms that perpetuate this false history. Our intellectually challenged Secretary of State, John Kerry, referred to this false history when he said at Harvard, “There’s been a massive increase in settlement over the course of the last years and there’s an increase in the violence because there’s this frustration that’s growing,” he said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The occupation is the cause of all the violence, recent or otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Settlements” is nothing more than a mindless mantra, like “cycle of violence” or “checkpoints” or the “sanctity of the al-Aqsa mosque,” for the pusillanimous West, while for Muslims they are the pretexts for practicing their traditional Jew-hatred and sacralized violence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The over 500 checkpoints and roadblocks are _"...nothing more than a mindless mantra"?
> _
> Does this look like something in your mind?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Horowitz, you scumbag liar, does this look like its only in your mind?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The shit you say gets more ridiculous every time you open your fucked up mouths.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> The history this reporting on the Temple Mount ignores is the great forbearance, and to be sure tactical pragmatism, of the Israelis in leaving the Temple Mount under the management of the Arabs; while a mosque created as a triumphalist boast over conquered Christians and Jews, in a city never mentioned in the Koran, is respected more by the West than its own empty cathedrals. Meanwhile the travails of Muslim immigrants are hyped and agonized over more than the crucifixions, torture, rape, and murder of Christians in the greatest mass persecution of Christians in history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looks like you're the ones trying to wipe them off the map?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are the wages of historical ignorance and the acceptance of a history made up by an adversary who can “thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened,” as Orwell says of the Party in _1984_. Our foreign policy has often been predicated on these lies, and the outcome has been predictable when lies are the foundation of policies––the abject failure we are witnessing in the region today.
> 
> The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yours are ramblings of hysterical assholes, who are heading for their own beat down, just like the world did to Nazi Germany.
Click to expand...






 Yet international laws show that the Jews do in fact have clear title to the land

 they have been occupied territories since 1948 when the arab muslims evicted 1 million Jews and occupied their homes and property, It was not until 1988 that the arab muslims declared Palestine as a state on land they had no right to claim.

 Who agreed to these 1967 borders then, and why wont the world accept them as borders. You cant be forced to accept borders that would put your citizens in danger, so who will enforce your attacks on the Jews.

 Try again as it was not brought into force until after the 6 days war in UN res 242.

 Only the Jews have lived there for over 2000 years , the rest are recent arrivals as the arab muslims were forcibly evicted in 1099 and never returned until late in the 19C

 So what caused the violence in 1966 that led to the occupation in 1967. Or the violence in 1947 that led to the nakba. Or how about the violence in 1931 that was the start of the civil war lastly what caused the violence in 1929 when the arab muslims mass murdered Jews is Safed and Hebron ?   In none of these cases was their an occupation.


----------



## Phoenall

Penelope said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to SA for putting ISIS in and us bombing the crap out of Syria, I'd run too.  (I believe Israel was also involved) What a waste, all the destruction, which will go into landfills, and so many dead. Big waste for a planet with finite resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, bog off.
> Part of the US special operations folks hadn't flown home after a "withdrawal" from Iraq, landing in the nothern Jordan instead to train the alleged "syrian opposition", and the rest is history.
> The US is "bombing" isis with free ammo.
> And last, but not least, we learn from our dear penelope, albeit indirectly that, if Israel were in fact doing to palistanians, what palistanians allege being done to them and to suffer from, palistanians would be on their way to Europe by now. hehehehe
> Conclusion: palistanians and penelopes are lying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> right where are they going to go, ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, eurohypocrites have found ways to accomodate, lybians, pakistanis, moroccans, algerians, etc., described collectively as "syrian refugees", what then makes palistanians the "chosen people"?
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... and the other issue is , they do not want to move.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dreams of driving jews out and of plundering jewish property won't die overnight, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That Hebrew property use to belong to the Palestinians less than 75 years ago as as late as 1 year ago as the Hebrews are still stealing land.
Click to expand...






 And who did the "Palestinians steal it from as they were not born to the land.


----------



## American_Jihad

Phoenall said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to SA for putting ISIS in and us bombing the crap out of Syria, I'd run too.  (I believe Israel was also involved) What a waste, all the destruction, which will go into landfills, and so many dead. Big waste for a planet with finite resources.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, bog off.
> Part of the US special operations folks hadn't flown home after a "withdrawal" from Iraq, landing in the nothern Jordan instead to train the alleged "syrian opposition", and the rest is history.
> The US is "bombing" isis with free ammo.
> And last, but not least, we learn from our dear penelope, albeit indirectly that, if Israel were in fact doing to palistanians, what palistanians allege being done to them and to suffer from, palistanians would be on their way to Europe by now. hehehehe
> Conclusion: palistanians and penelopes are lying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> right where are they going to go, ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, eurohypocrites have found ways to accomodate, lybians, pakistanis, moroccans, algerians, etc., described collectively as "syrian refugees", what then makes palistanians the "chosen people"?
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... and the other issue is , they do not want to move.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dreams of driving jews out and of plundering jewish property won't die overnight, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That Hebrew property use to belong to the Palestinians less than 75 years ago as as late as 1 year ago as the Hebrews are still stealing land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And who did the "Palestinians steal it from as they were not born to the land.
Click to expand...


Koran Says Land Belongs To Israel | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


----------



## American_Jihad

*Islam/Commentary: *

*WHAT THE QUR'AN REALLY SAYS*
*by Shaykh Prof. Abdul Hadi Palazzi*




*THE QUR'AN SAYS THAT ALLAH GAVE THE LAND OF ISRAEL TO THE JEWS 
AND WILL RESTORE THEM TO IT AT THE END OF DAYS*




THE QUR'AN SAYS:

"To Moses We [Allah] gave nine clear signs. Ask the Israelites how he [Moses] first appeared amongst them. Pharoah said to him: 'Moses, I can see that you are bewitched.' 'You know full well,' he [Moses] replied, 'that none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth has revealed these visible signs. Pharoah, you are doomed.'"

"Pharoah sought to scare them [the Israelites] out of the land [of Israel]: but We [Allah] drowned him [Pharoah] together with all who were with him. Then We [Allah] said to the Israelites: 'Dwell in this land [the Land of Israel]. When the promise of the hereafter [End of Days] comes to be fulfilled, We [Allah] shall assemble you [the Israelites] all together [in the Land of Israel]."

"We [Allah] have revealed the Qur'an with the truth, and with the truth it has come down. We have sent you [Muhammed] forth only to proclaim good news and to give warning."

[Qur'an, "Night Journey," chapter 17:100-104]

SHAYKH PROF. PALAZZI COMMENTS:

God wanted to give Avraham a double blessing, through Ishmael and through Isaac, and ordered that Ishmael's descendents should live in the desert of Arabia and Isaac's in Canaan.

The Qur'an recognizes the Land of Israel as the heritage of the Jews and it explains that, before the Last Judgment, Jews will return to dwell there. This prophecy has already been fulfilled.

****************************************


MUSLIMS MUST RECOGNIZE THE STATE OF ISRAEL AS A JEWISH STATE

...

The Qur'an and the Land of Israel

...

Koran Says Land Belongs To Israel | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


----------



## American_Jihad

*Netanyahu’s Mufti Firestorm*
* Last century’s Islamist ideologues drew on both Communism and Nazism. The Palestinian cause likewise fuses Islamist and Nazi ambitions with Soviet psychological warfare. *
November 2, 2015
Melanie Phillips






*Reprinted from **Jerusalem Post**.*

When Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke about the role played in the Holocaust by the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, he cannot have imagined the reaction he would detonate.

What he said was this: “He [Husseini] flew to Berlin. Hitler didn’t want to exterminate the Jews at the time; he wanted to expel the Jews. And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, ‘If you expel them, they’ll all come here.’ ‘So what should I do with them?’ he [Hitler] asked.

He [Husseini] said, ‘Burn them.’” In the subsequent global firestorm, Netanyahu was denounced for exonerating Hitler. It was said he had claimed the mufti had given Hitler the idea of exterminating the Jews when the two met in November 1941; that he was cynically trying to tarnish today’s Palestinians; even that he was a Holocaust denier.

His subsequent protest that he had no intention of absolving Hitler of responsibility fell on deaf ears. Even those who acknowledged that the mufti had allied with the Nazis insisted Netanyahu had turned history back to front.

Most of this reaction, however, is at best wide of the mark and at worst quite obscene. For Netanyahu was fundamentally correct.

There can be no doubt he spoke too loosely. He has provided no source for the words he quoted from both Husseini and Hitler at that November 1941 meeting. And he should have acknowledged that the mass murder of European Jews was already well under way, and that Hitler had talked about exterminating the Jews since the 1920s.

But mass murder is not the same as genocide. And the precise moment when Hitler decided to exterminate the whole of European Jewry – the “Final Solution” – has long been disputed by historians.

For even while the Nazis were rounding up Jews for slaughter they were also deporting them – more than 500,000 between 1933 and 1941. And recently unearthed documentary evidence suggests that the mufti and Hitler egged each other on in a mutual genocidal frenzy.

A book published last year, Nazis, Islamists, and the Making of the Modern Middle East, by Barry Rubin and Wolfgang Schwanitz, argues that the mufti’s alliance with Hitler turned the extermination of the whole of European Jewry into a strategic imperative.

As late as July 1941, according to Hermann Göring, Hitler thought the last of the Jews could be removed from Germany by “emigration or evacuation.”

...

These enemies react with fury to evidence of the grand mufti’s Nazi enthusiasm because this destroys the fiction that the Palestinian cause so dear to their hearts is noble. This cause is in fact the direct heir to a genocidal project.

We know that Nazi doctrine whipped millions of Germans into murderous frenzy. We also know Soviet propaganda turned truth and lies inside out and brainwashed millions.

Yasser Arafat learned from the Soviet Union how to rewrite history and capture the minds of the credulous. Mahmoud Abbas, whose doctoral thesis denied the Holocaust, hero-worships Husseini. Palestinian propaganda reproduces vile Nazi tropes of Jew-hatred.

Last century’s Islamist ideologues drew on both Communism and Nazism. The Palestinian cause likewise fuses Islamist and Nazi ambitions with Soviet psychological warfare. This explains not just the frenzied war against Israel, but why so many in the West are cheering it on.

That is the context of Netanyahu’s mufti firestorm.

Netanyahu’s Mufti Firestorm


----------



## American_Jihad

*Abbas’ Religious Incitement*
* The PA intensifies its appeals to Islam in its war against Israel. *
November 2, 2015
Joseph Puder






Since its independence, the Jewish state has been under siege by the Arab states.  The secular, nationalist, Arab dictatorships waged three major wars on Israel in 1948, 1967, and 1973.  Alongside the wars that meant to destroy the Jewish state and drive its inhabitants into the sea, was an Arab League economic boycott.  Since the founding of the Palestine Liberation Organization in 1964, a terror war against Israel has ensued.  The First Palestinian Intifada (uprising) occurred in 1987, the Second intifada, much bloodier, began in September, 2000.  Both ran out of steam and failed to break the spirit of Jewish Israel, just as the Arab nationalist wars and the economic boycotts failed to dismantle the Jewish state. In 1979, Egypt signed a peace treaty with Israel, and Jordan followed in 1994.  The Palestinians continued to employ terror against Jews but added law-fare to the menu, and the BDS (Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions) movement, which seeks to delegitimize, demonize, and ultimately destroy the Jewish state.

In the last few months a far more insidious campaign was launched by the Palestinians, aided by Islamist elements in the Arab and Muslim world - to damage the Jewish state. It is a religious incitement campaign which seeks to awaken anti-Jewish religious grievances against the Jews of Israel, with worldwide implications for Jews everywhere. 

The Islamic Wakf (endowment) Ministry, under the Palestinian Authority (PA), in charge of the mosques on Temple Mount or the Noble Sanctuary (Haram el Sharif), has claimed that the Israeli government of Benjamin Netanyahu has altered the status quo (Mahmoud Abbas incited Palestinians by repeating the false charge) that existed since 1967 when Israel gained control over all of Jerusalem.  The status quo gave Jews the right to visit the Temple Mount but not to pray there.  The Western Wall was and remains the Jewish place of prayer.

...

Abbas’ Religious Incitement


----------



## Rehmani

American_Jihad said:


> The " palestinians" are arab outcast from surrounding arab countries...
> 
> *The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments *
> * When lies are the foundation of policies. *
> October 16, 2015
> Bruce Thornton
> 
> Many of our policy debates and conflicts both domestic and foreign call on history to validate their positions. At home, crimes from the past like slavery and legal segregation are used to justify present policies ranging from racial set asides to housing regulations long after those institutions have been dismantled. Abroad, our jihadist enemies continually evoke the Crusades, “colonialism,” and “imperialism” as justifications for their violence. Yet the “history” used in such fashion is usually one-sided, simplistic, or downright false. Nor is the reason hard to find: as we read in _1984_, “Who controls the past . . . controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.” Bad history is a powerful instrument for gaining political power.
> 
> Nowhere is the abuse of history more rampant than in the Middle East. Since World War II all the problems whose origins lie in dysfunctional tribal and religious beliefs and behaviors have been laid at the feet of “colonialism” and “imperialism.” Western leftists––besotted both by a _marxiste_ hatred of liberal democracy, and by juvenile noble-savage Third-Worldism–– have legitimized this specious pretext, which now for many has become historical fact.
> 
> ...
> 
> Everything about this narrative is false. There is no such thing as a “Palestinian” people, an idea that arose only after the Six Day War of 1967. The bulk of the people mistakenly called “Palestinians” are ethnically, religiously, and linguistically indistinguishable from Arab Muslims in Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria. Numerous comments by Arab leaders before 1967 emphasized this fact. For example, Zouhair Muhsin, a member of the Executive Council of the PLO, said, “There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity… Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.”
> 
> ...
> 
> Finally, the charge of an “illegal occupation” of the “occupied West Bank” is a canard. Those territories, comprising the heartland of the ancient Jewish nations of Judea and Samaria, are _disputed_, their final disposition awaiting a peace treaty. There are no “borders” thought to define the mythical Palestinian nation. Those lines on the map are armistice lines, created after Israel defeated the armies of Syria, Jordan, and Egypt in 1967. By all rights as the victor, Israel could have incorporated the so-called West Bank into the state of Israel, on the same eternal wages of war that led to the American Southwest being incorporated into the U.S. after the 1846-48 war with Mexico, or of Prussian Germany into Poland after World War II. Indeed, since the territory in question was for thousands of years the homeland of the Jewish people, Israel would have had a _better_ case for restoring Judea and Samaria to Israel. Instead, in the Orwellian history created by Muslims and accepted by the West, the indigenous peoples are considered the “occupiers” of their own lands, and conquerors, invaders, and colonizers considered the disenfranchised victims.
> 
> The recent suicide-murders of random Israelis by Palestinians have been analyzed in terms that perpetuate this false history. Our intellectually challenged Secretary of State, John Kerry, referred to this false history when he said at Harvard, “There’s been a massive increase in settlement over the course of the last years and there’s an increase in the violence because there’s this frustration that’s growing,” he said. “Settlements” is nothing more than a mindless mantra, like “cycle of violence” or “checkpoints” or the “sanctity of the al-Aqsa mosque,” for the pusillanimous West, while for Muslims they are the pretexts for practicing their traditional Jew-hatred and sacralized violence.
> 
> The history this reporting on the Temple Mount ignores is the great forbearance, and to be sure tactical pragmatism, of the Israelis in leaving the Temple Mount under the management of the Arabs; while a mosque created as a triumphalist boast over conquered Christians and Jews, in a city never mentioned in the Koran, is respected more by the West than its own empty cathedrals. Meanwhile the travails of Muslim immigrants are hyped and agonized over more than the crucifixions, torture, rape, and murder of Christians in the greatest mass persecution of Christians in history.
> 
> These are the wages of historical ignorance and the acceptance of a history made up by an adversary who can “thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened,” as Orwell says of the Party in _1984_. Our foreign policy has often been predicated on these lies, and the outcome has been predictable when lies are the foundation of policies––the abject failure we are witnessing in the region today.
> 
> .
> The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments


A part of that who you are Christian or Jew, write or wrong but one thing is confirm that you are a serious poster.
A part of that your seriously long post but you have to accept this fact as well that Israel never exist in history and as you already accept that your's Govt policies faille in the region and history tell us that Israel was a gift to jew in return of their help against Germany in wwii, no doubt jew helped coalition in wwii but I have doubt that Germany killed 6 million jew, it was just propaganda used by jew to pressurize the wwii coalition and win the holy land. And this is the point where from conflict started. which going on last 70 years and now world survival is in danger. And your leader and world leaders have to fix this problem as soon as possible to restore the peace in the region and in the world. Before the these world wars, Holy Land was in peace for long 800 years where Muslim,Christian and Jew were living happily and I wouldn't be wrong If called it world first and only multicultural democratic country in the world.


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## American_Jihad

Rehmani said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> The " palestinians" are arab outcast from surrounding arab countries...
> 
> *The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments *
> * When lies are the foundation of policies. *
> October 16, 2015
> Bruce Thornton
> 
> Many of our policy debates and conflicts both domestic and foreign call on history to validate their positions. At home, crimes from the past like slavery and legal segregation are used to justify present policies ranging from racial set asides to housing regulations long after those institutions have been dismantled. Abroad, our jihadist enemies continually evoke the Crusades, “colonialism,” and “imperialism” as justifications for their violence. Yet the “history” used in such fashion is usually one-sided, simplistic, or downright false. Nor is the reason hard to find: as we read in _1984_, “Who controls the past . . . controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.” Bad history is a powerful instrument for gaining political power.
> 
> Nowhere is the abuse of history more rampant than in the Middle East. Since World War II all the problems whose origins lie in dysfunctional tribal and religious beliefs and behaviors have been laid at the feet of “colonialism” and “imperialism.” Western leftists––besotted both by a _marxiste_ hatred of liberal democracy, and by juvenile noble-savage Third-Worldism–– have legitimized this specious pretext, which now for many has become historical fact.
> 
> ...
> 
> Everything about this narrative is false. There is no such thing as a “Palestinian” people, an idea that arose only after the Six Day War of 1967. The bulk of the people mistakenly called “Palestinians” are ethnically, religiously, and linguistically indistinguishable from Arab Muslims in Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria. Numerous comments by Arab leaders before 1967 emphasized this fact. For example, Zouhair Muhsin, a member of the Executive Council of the PLO, said, “There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity… Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.”
> 
> ...
> 
> Finally, the charge of an “illegal occupation” of the “occupied West Bank” is a canard. Those territories, comprising the heartland of the ancient Jewish nations of Judea and Samaria, are _disputed_, their final disposition awaiting a peace treaty. There are no “borders” thought to define the mythical Palestinian nation. Those lines on the map are armistice lines, created after Israel defeated the armies of Syria, Jordan, and Egypt in 1967. By all rights as the victor, Israel could have incorporated the so-called West Bank into the state of Israel, on the same eternal wages of war that led to the American Southwest being incorporated into the U.S. after the 1846-48 war with Mexico, or of Prussian Germany into Poland after World War II. Indeed, since the territory in question was for thousands of years the homeland of the Jewish people, Israel would have had a _better_ case for restoring Judea and Samaria to Israel. Instead, in the Orwellian history created by Muslims and accepted by the West, the indigenous peoples are considered the “occupiers” of their own lands, and conquerors, invaders, and colonizers considered the disenfranchised victims.
> 
> The recent suicide-murders of random Israelis by Palestinians have been analyzed in terms that perpetuate this false history. Our intellectually challenged Secretary of State, John Kerry, referred to this false history when he said at Harvard, “There’s been a massive increase in settlement over the course of the last years and there’s an increase in the violence because there’s this frustration that’s growing,” he said. “Settlements” is nothing more than a mindless mantra, like “cycle of violence” or “checkpoints” or the “sanctity of the al-Aqsa mosque,” for the pusillanimous West, while for Muslims they are the pretexts for practicing their traditional Jew-hatred and sacralized violence.
> 
> The history this reporting on the Temple Mount ignores is the great forbearance, and to be sure tactical pragmatism, of the Israelis in leaving the Temple Mount under the management of the Arabs; while a mosque created as a triumphalist boast over conquered Christians and Jews, in a city never mentioned in the Koran, is respected more by the West than its own empty cathedrals. Meanwhile the travails of Muslim immigrants are hyped and agonized over more than the crucifixions, torture, rape, and murder of Christians in the greatest mass persecution of Christians in history.
> 
> These are the wages of historical ignorance and the acceptance of a history made up by an adversary who can “thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened,” as Orwell says of the Party in _1984_. Our foreign policy has often been predicated on these lies, and the outcome has been predictable when lies are the foundation of policies––the abject failure we are witnessing in the region today.
> 
> .
> The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments
> 
> 
> 
> A part of that who you are Christian or Jew, write or wrong but one thing is confirm that you are a serious poster.
> A part of that your seriously long post but you have to accept this fact as well that Israel never exist in history and as you already accept that your's Govt policies faille in the region and history tell us that Israel was a gift to jew in return of their help against Germany in wwii, no doubt jew helped coalition in wwii but I have doubt that Germany killed 6 million jew, it was just propaganda used by jew to pressurize the wwii coalition and win the holy land. And this is the point where from conflict started. which going on last 70 years and now world survival is in danger. And your leader and world leaders have to fix this problem as soon as possible to restore the peace in the region and in the world. Before the these world wars, Holy Land was in peace for long 800 years where Muslim,Christian and Jew were living happily and I wouldn't be wrong If called it world first and only multicultural democratic country in the world.
Click to expand...

History of islam:
Genocides Against the Assyrian Nation
time line of islam - Google Search


----------



## American_Jihad

*780 Muslim Attacks on Israelis in October*
* 30 firearm attacks, 40 knife attacks *
November 3, 2015
Daniel Greenfield






Here's what a month of peaceful co-existence looks like in Israel. Europeans cheering on Muslim migrants might want to consider the consequences.

780 attacks

30 firearm attacks

40 knife attacks

170 Molotov cocktail attacks

500 stone throwing attacks

10 rocket attacks from Gaza

30 homemade explosives, mines

8 killed

150+ wounded

...

  And a population that is religiously hostile and religiously violent makes peace impossible.

780 Muslim Attacks on Israelis in October


----------



## Humanity

American_Jihad said:


> *780 Muslim Attacks on Israelis in October*
> * 30 firearm attacks, 40 knife attacks *
> November 3, 2015
> Daniel Greenfield
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's what a month of peaceful co-existence looks like in Israel. Europeans cheering on Muslim migrants might want to consider the consequences.
> 
> 780 attacks
> 
> 30 firearm attacks
> 
> 40 knife attacks
> 
> 170 Molotov cocktail attacks
> 
> 500 stone throwing attacks
> 
> 10 rocket attacks from Gaza
> 
> 30 homemade explosives, mines
> 
> 8 killed
> 
> 150+ wounded
> 
> ...
> 
> And a population that is religiously hostile and religiously violent makes peace impossible.
> 
> 780 Muslim Attacks on Israelis in October



And the other side of the coin?

*74 Palestinians Killed, 2355 Injured Since October 1*

Health Ministry: "74 Palestinians Killed, 2355 Injured Since October 1" - International Middle East Media Center


----------



## Hollie

Humanity said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *780 Muslim Attacks on Israelis in October*
> * 30 firearm attacks, 40 knife attacks *
> November 3, 2015
> Daniel Greenfield
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's what a month of peaceful co-existence looks like in Israel. Europeans cheering on Muslim migrants might want to consider the consequences.
> 
> 780 attacks
> 
> 30 firearm attacks
> 
> 40 knife attacks
> 
> 170 Molotov cocktail attacks
> 
> 500 stone throwing attacks
> 
> 10 rocket attacks from Gaza
> 
> 30 homemade explosives, mines
> 
> 8 killed
> 
> 150+ wounded
> 
> ...
> 
> And a population that is religiously hostile and religiously violent makes peace impossible.
> 
> 780 Muslim Attacks on Israelis in October
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the other side of the coin?
> 
> *74 Palestinians Killed, 2355 Injured Since October 1*
> 
> Health Ministry: "74 Palestinians Killed, 2355 Injured Since October 1" - International Middle East Media Center
Click to expand...

It's the same side of the islamo-coin. Islamic terrorism carries consequences.

But why the islamo-whining? "We love death more than you love life"


----------



## Humanity

Hollie said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *780 Muslim Attacks on Israelis in October*
> * 30 firearm attacks, 40 knife attacks *
> November 3, 2015
> Daniel Greenfield
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's what a month of peaceful co-existence looks like in Israel. Europeans cheering on Muslim migrants might want to consider the consequences.
> 
> 780 attacks
> 
> 30 firearm attacks
> 
> 40 knife attacks
> 
> 170 Molotov cocktail attacks
> 
> 500 stone throwing attacks
> 
> 10 rocket attacks from Gaza
> 
> 30 homemade explosives, mines
> 
> 8 killed
> 
> 150+ wounded
> 
> ...
> 
> And a population that is religiously hostile and religiously violent makes peace impossible.
> 
> 780 Muslim Attacks on Israelis in October
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the other side of the coin?
> 
> *74 Palestinians Killed, 2355 Injured Since October 1*
> 
> Health Ministry: "74 Palestinians Killed, 2355 Injured Since October 1" - International Middle East Media Center
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's the same side of the islamo-coin. Islamic terrorism carries consequences.
> 
> But why the islamo-whining? "We love death more than you love life"
Click to expand...


So pretty much in the same zionut-coin...

Occupy others land, suppress the people why do you zionuts whine when you get the odd rocket from those people?


----------



## Hollie

Humanity said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *780 Muslim Attacks on Israelis in October*
> * 30 firearm attacks, 40 knife attacks *
> November 3, 2015
> Daniel Greenfield
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's what a month of peaceful co-existence looks like in Israel. Europeans cheering on Muslim migrants might want to consider the consequences.
> 
> 780 attacks
> 
> 30 firearm attacks
> 
> 40 knife attacks
> 
> 170 Molotov cocktail attacks
> 
> 500 stone throwing attacks
> 
> 10 rocket attacks from Gaza
> 
> 30 homemade explosives, mines
> 
> 8 killed
> 
> 150+ wounded
> 
> ...
> 
> And a population that is religiously hostile and religiously violent makes peace impossible.
> 
> 780 Muslim Attacks on Israelis in October
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the other side of the coin?
> 
> *74 Palestinians Killed, 2355 Injured Since October 1*
> 
> Health Ministry: "74 Palestinians Killed, 2355 Injured Since October 1" - International Middle East Media Center
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's the same side of the islamo-coin. Islamic terrorism carries consequences.
> 
> But why the islamo-whining? "We love death more than you love life"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So pretty much in the same zionut-coin...
> 
> Occupy others land, suppress the people why do you zionuts whine when you get the odd rocket from those people?
Click to expand...

You need to question the accuracy of what you're indoctrinated with at the mosque. Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese beggars and squatters simply by the act of occupying territory don't have exclusive ownership to that territory.


----------



## Rehmani

American_Jihad said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> The " palestinians" are arab outcast from surrounding arab countries...
> 
> *The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments *
> * When lies are the foundation of policies. *
> October 16, 2015
> Bruce Thornton
> 
> Many of our policy debates and conflicts both domestic and foreign call on history to validate their positions. At home, crimes from the past like slavery and legal segregation are used to justify present policies ranging from racial set asides to housing regulations long after those institutions have been dismantled. Abroad, our jihadist enemies continually evoke the Crusades, “colonialism,” and “imperialism” as justifications for their violence. Yet the “history” used in such fashion is usually one-sided, simplistic, or downright false. Nor is the reason hard to find: as we read in _1984_, “Who controls the past . . . controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.” Bad history is a powerful instrument for gaining political power.
> 
> Nowhere is the abuse of history more rampant than in the Middle East. Since World War II all the problems whose origins lie in dysfunctional tribal and religious beliefs and behaviors have been laid at the feet of “colonialism” and “imperialism.” Western leftists––besotted both by a _marxiste_ hatred of liberal democracy, and by juvenile noble-savage Third-Worldism–– have legitimized this specious pretext, which now for many has become historical fact.
> 
> ...
> 
> Everything about this narrative is false. There is no such thing as a “Palestinian” people, an idea that arose only after the Six Day War of 1967. The bulk of the people mistakenly called “Palestinians” are ethnically, religiously, and linguistically indistinguishable from Arab Muslims in Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria. Numerous comments by Arab leaders before 1967 emphasized this fact. For example, Zouhair Muhsin, a member of the Executive Council of the PLO, said, “There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity… Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.”
> 
> ...
> 
> Finally, the charge of an “illegal occupation” of the “occupied West Bank” is a canard. Those territories, comprising the heartland of the ancient Jewish nations of Judea and Samaria, are _disputed_, their final disposition awaiting a peace treaty. There are no “borders” thought to define the mythical Palestinian nation. Those lines on the map are armistice lines, created after Israel defeated the armies of Syria, Jordan, and Egypt in 1967. By all rights as the victor, Israel could have incorporated the so-called West Bank into the state of Israel, on the same eternal wages of war that led to the American Southwest being incorporated into the U.S. after the 1846-48 war with Mexico, or of Prussian Germany into Poland after World War II. Indeed, since the territory in question was for thousands of years the homeland of the Jewish people, Israel would have had a _better_ case for restoring Judea and Samaria to Israel. Instead, in the Orwellian history created by Muslims and accepted by the West, the indigenous peoples are considered the “occupiers” of their own lands, and conquerors, invaders, and colonizers considered the disenfranchised victims.
> 
> The recent suicide-murders of random Israelis by Palestinians have been analyzed in terms that perpetuate this false history. Our intellectually challenged Secretary of State, John Kerry, referred to this false history when he said at Harvard, “There’s been a massive increase in settlement over the course of the last years and there’s an increase in the violence because there’s this frustration that’s growing,” he said. “Settlements” is nothing more than a mindless mantra, like “cycle of violence” or “checkpoints” or the “sanctity of the al-Aqsa mosque,” for the pusillanimous West, while for Muslims they are the pretexts for practicing their traditional Jew-hatred and sacralized violence.
> 
> The history this reporting on the Temple Mount ignores is the great forbearance, and to be sure tactical pragmatism, of the Israelis in leaving the Temple Mount under the management of the Arabs; while a mosque created as a triumphalist boast over conquered Christians and Jews, in a city never mentioned in the Koran, is respected more by the West than its own empty cathedrals. Meanwhile the travails of Muslim immigrants are hyped and agonized over more than the crucifixions, torture, rape, and murder of Christians in the greatest mass persecution of Christians in history.
> 
> These are the wages of historical ignorance and the acceptance of a history made up by an adversary who can “thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened,” as Orwell says of the Party in _1984_. Our foreign policy has often been predicated on these lies, and the outcome has been predictable when lies are the foundation of policies––the abject failure we are witnessing in the region today.
> 
> .
> The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments
> 
> 
> 
> A part of that who you are Christian or Jew, write or wrong but one thing is confirm that you are a serious poster.
> A part of that your seriously long post but you have to accept this fact as well that Israel never exist in history and as you already accept that your's Govt policies faille in the region and history tell us that Israel was a gift to jew in return of their help against Germany in wwii, no doubt jew helped coalition in wwii but I have doubt that Germany killed 6 million jew, it was just propaganda used by jew to pressurize the wwii coalition and win the holy land. And this is the point where from conflict started. which going on last 70 years and now world survival is in danger. And your leader and world leaders have to fix this problem as soon as possible to restore the peace in the region and in the world. Before the these world wars, Holy Land was in peace for long 800 years where Muslim,Christian and Jew were living happily and I wouldn't be wrong If called it world first and only multicultural democratic country in the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> History of islam:
> Genocides Against the Assyrian Nation
> time line of islam - Google Search
Click to expand...

First I only know Christian not Assyrian but I assumed they were christian too. These Genocides incident recorded by Muslim historian as well. If we start argument never gonna end. Let's start from Crusades and I will finish on Last crusade from European king to the holy land and Muslim Arab King Saladin took over holy land from them and pardon every one in the holy land no killing recorded and King Saladin establish peace which was last for 800 years until wwi wwii since then Palestinian identity is struggling while country like Israel never exist in the history and got the identity.


----------



## Rehmani

Humanity said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *780 Muslim Attacks on Israelis in October*
> * 30 firearm attacks, 40 knife attacks *
> November 3, 2015
> Daniel Greenfield
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's what a month of peaceful co-existence looks like in Israel. Europeans cheering on Muslim migrants might want to consider the consequences.
> 
> 780 attacks
> 
> 30 firearm attacks
> 
> 40 knife attacks
> 
> 170 Molotov cocktail attacks
> 
> 500 stone throwing attacks
> 
> 10 rocket attacks from Gaza
> 
> 30 homemade explosives, mines
> 
> 8 killed
> 
> 150+ wounded
> 
> ...
> 
> And a population that is religiously hostile and religiously violent makes peace impossible.
> 
> 780 Muslim Attacks on Israelis in October
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the other side of the coin?
> 
> *74 Palestinians Killed, 2355 Injured Since October 1*
> 
> Health Ministry: "74 Palestinians Killed, 2355 Injured Since October 1" - International Middle East Media Center
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's the same side of the islamo-coin. Islamic terrorism carries consequences.
> h
> But why the islamo-whining? "We love death more than you love life"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So pretty much in the same zionut-coin...
> 
> Occupy others land, suppress the people why do you zionuts whine when you get the odd rocket from those people?
Click to expand...

To me Zionist are jew too, we should not separate them. Jew are very tricky they always trouble under cover so they can tell to the democratic world they are innocent and zionsit making trouble then why you are giving them vote and backing them if they are not jew and why Palestinian Christian not supporting them if zionist are christian.


----------



## Rehmani

Hollie said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *780 Muslim Attacks on Israelis in October*
> * 30 firearm attacks, 40 knife attacks *
> November 3, 2015
> Daniel Greenfield
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's what a month of peaceful co-existence looks like in Israel. Europeans cheering on Muslim migrants might want to consider the consequences.
> 
> 780 attacks
> 
> 30 firearm attacks
> 
> 40 knife attacks
> 
> 170 Molotov cocktail attacks
> 
> 500 stone throwing attacks
> 
> 10 rocket attacks from Gaza
> 
> 30 homemade explosives, mines
> 
> 8 killed
> 
> 150+ wounded
> 
> ...
> 
> And a population that is religiously hostile and religiously violent makes peace impossible.
> 
> 780 Muslim Attacks on Israelis in October
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the other side of the coin?
> 
> *74 Palestinians Killed, 2355 Injured Since October 1*
> 
> Health Ministry: "74 Palestinians Killed, 2355 Injured Since October 1" - International Middle East Media Center
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's the same side of the islamo-coin. Islamic terrorism carries consequences.
> 
> But why the islamo-whining? "We love death more than you love life"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So pretty much in the same zionut-coin...
> 
> Occupy others land, suppress the people why do you zionuts whine when you get the odd rocket from those people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to question the accuracy of what you're indoctrinated with at the mosque. Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese beggars and squatters simply by the act of occupying territory don't have exclusive ownership to that territory.
Click to expand...

And the Invader terrorist jew have but not native arab.


----------



## Humanity

Hollie said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *780 Muslim Attacks on Israelis in October*
> * 30 firearm attacks, 40 knife attacks *
> November 3, 2015
> Daniel Greenfield
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's what a month of peaceful co-existence looks like in Israel. Europeans cheering on Muslim migrants might want to consider the consequences.
> 
> 780 attacks
> 
> 30 firearm attacks
> 
> 40 knife attacks
> 
> 170 Molotov cocktail attacks
> 
> 500 stone throwing attacks
> 
> 10 rocket attacks from Gaza
> 
> 30 homemade explosives, mines
> 
> 8 killed
> 
> 150+ wounded
> 
> ...
> 
> And a population that is religiously hostile and religiously violent makes peace impossible.
> 
> 780 Muslim Attacks on Israelis in October
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the other side of the coin?
> 
> *74 Palestinians Killed, 2355 Injured Since October 1*
> 
> Health Ministry: "74 Palestinians Killed, 2355 Injured Since October 1" - International Middle East Media Center
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's the same side of the islamo-coin. Islamic terrorism carries consequences.
> 
> But why the islamo-whining? "We love death more than you love life"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So pretty much in the same zionut-coin...
> 
> Occupy others land, suppress the people why do you zionuts whine when you get the odd rocket from those people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to question the accuracy of what you're indoctrinated with at the mosque. Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese beggars and squatters simply by the act of occupying territory don't have exclusive ownership to that territory.
Click to expand...


Like i said, watch the zionuts whine when the truth is pointed out to them...

Whine and deflect that is!


----------



## Humanity

Rehmani said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *780 Muslim Attacks on Israelis in October*
> * 30 firearm attacks, 40 knife attacks *
> November 3, 2015
> Daniel Greenfield
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's what a month of peaceful co-existence looks like in Israel. Europeans cheering on Muslim migrants might want to consider the consequences.
> 
> 780 attacks
> 
> 30 firearm attacks
> 
> 40 knife attacks
> 
> 170 Molotov cocktail attacks
> 
> 500 stone throwing attacks
> 
> 10 rocket attacks from Gaza
> 
> 30 homemade explosives, mines
> 
> 8 killed
> 
> 150+ wounded
> 
> ...
> 
> And a population that is religiously hostile and religiously violent makes peace impossible.
> 
> 780 Muslim Attacks on Israelis in October
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the other side of the coin?
> 
> *74 Palestinians Killed, 2355 Injured Since October 1*
> 
> Health Ministry: "74 Palestinians Killed, 2355 Injured Since October 1" - International Middle East Media Center
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's the same side of the islamo-coin. Islamic terrorism carries consequences.
> h
> But why the islamo-whining? "We love death more than you love life"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So pretty much in the same zionut-coin...
> 
> Occupy others land, suppress the people why do you zionuts whine when you get the odd rocket from those people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To me Zionist are jew too, we should not separate them. Jew are very tricky they always trouble under cover so they can tell to the democratic world they are innocent and zionsit making trouble then why you are giving them vote and backing them if they are not jew and why Palestinian Christian not supporting them if zionist are christian.
Click to expand...


Sorry, to confuse zionist and Jew is wrong...

Not all Jews are zionist!

Not all zionists are Jews...

There are plenty of Christians who support Zionism!


----------



## Hollie

Humanity said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *780 Muslim Attacks on Israelis in October*
> * 30 firearm attacks, 40 knife attacks *
> November 3, 2015
> Daniel Greenfield
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's what a month of peaceful co-existence looks like in Israel. Europeans cheering on Muslim migrants might want to consider the consequences.
> 
> 780 attacks
> 
> 30 firearm attacks
> 
> 40 knife attacks
> 
> 170 Molotov cocktail attacks
> 
> 500 stone throwing attacks
> 
> 10 rocket attacks from Gaza
> 
> 30 homemade explosives, mines
> 
> 8 killed
> 
> 150+ wounded
> 
> ...
> 
> And a population that is religiously hostile and religiously violent makes peace impossible.
> 
> 780 Muslim Attacks on Israelis in October
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the other side of the coin?
> 
> *74 Palestinians Killed, 2355 Injured Since October 1*
> 
> Health Ministry: "74 Palestinians Killed, 2355 Injured Since October 1" - International Middle East Media Center
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's the same side of the islamo-coin. Islamic terrorism carries consequences.
> 
> But why the islamo-whining? "We love death more than you love life"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So pretty much in the same zionut-coin...
> 
> Occupy others land, suppress the people why do you zionuts whine when you get the odd rocket from those people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to question the accuracy of what you're indoctrinated with at the mosque. Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese beggars and squatters simply by the act of occupying territory don't have exclusive ownership to that territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like i said, watch the zionuts whine when the truth is pointed out to them...
> 
> Whine and deflect that is!
Click to expand...

Well actually, you were the whining / deflecting islamo-fascist. Why are you whining about the number of dead Pal'istanian terrorists when your terrorist heroes were instigating attacks against Israelis?

Islamic terrorism leads to dead islamos.


----------



## Rehmani

Humanity said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *780 Muslim Attacks on Israelis in October*
> * 30 firearm attacks, 40 knife attacks *
> November 3, 2015
> Daniel Greenfield
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's what a month of peaceful co-existence looks like in Israel. Europeans cheering on Muslim migrants might want to consider the consequences.
> 
> 780 attacks
> 
> 30 firearm attacks
> 
> 40 knife attacks
> 
> 170 Molotov cocktail attacks
> 
> 500 stone throwing attacks
> 
> 10 rocket attacks from Gaza
> 
> 30 homemade explosives, mines
> 
> 8 killed
> 
> 150+ wounded
> 
> ...
> 
> And a population that is religiously hostile and religiously violent makes peace impossible.
> 
> 780 Muslim Attacks on Israelis in October
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the other side of the coin?
> 
> *74 Palestinians Killed, 2355 Injured Since October 1*
> 
> Health Ministry: "74 Palestinians Killed, 2355 Injured Since October 1" - International Middle East Media Center
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's the same side of the islamo-coin. Islamic terrorism carries consequences.
> h
> But why the islamo-whining? "We love death more than you love life"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So pretty much in the same zionut-coin...
> 
> Occupy others land, suppress the people why do you zionuts whine when you get the odd rocket from those people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To me Zionist are jew too, we should not separate them. Jew are very tricky they always trouble under cover so they can tell to the democratic world they are innocent and zionsit making trouble then why you are giving them vote and backing them if they are not jew and why Palestinian Christian not supporting them if zionist are christian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, to confuse zionist and Jew is wrong...
> 
> Not all Jews are zionist!
> 
> Not all zionists are Jews...
> 
> There are plenty of Christians who support Zionism!
Click to expand...

The Israel name used and owned by and government formed by jews and jjews in majority then how Zionist are responsible.


----------



## Rehmani

Hollie said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *780 Muslim Attacks on Israelis in October*
> * 30 firearm attacks, 40 knife attacks *
> November 3, 2015
> Daniel Greenfield
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's what a month of peaceful co-existence looks like in Israel. Europeans cheering on Muslim migrants might want to consider the consequences.
> 
> 780 attacks
> 
> 30 firearm attacks
> 
> 40 knife attacks
> 
> 170 Molotov cocktail attacks
> 
> 500 stone throwing attacks
> 
> 10 rocket attacks from Gaza
> 
> 30 homemade explosives, mines
> 
> 8 killed
> 
> 150+ wounded
> 
> ...
> 
> And a population that is religiously hostile and religiously violent makes peace impossible.
> 
> 780 Muslim Attacks on Israelis in October
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the other side of the coin?
> 
> *74 Palestinians Killed, 2355 Injured Since October 1*
> 
> Health Ministry: "74 Palestinians Killed, 2355 Injured Since October 1" - International Middle East Media Center
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's the same side of the islamo-coin. Islamic terrorism carries consequences.
> 
> But why the islamo-whining? "We love death more than you love life"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So pretty much in the same zionut-coin...
> 
> Occupy others land, suppress the people why do you zionuts whine when you get the odd rocket from those people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to question the accuracy of what you're indoctrinated with at the mosque. Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese beggars and squatters simply by the act of occupying territory don't have exclusive ownership to that territory.
Click to expand...

Simply Syrian, Jordanian, Lebanese and Palestinians are the owner of Holy Land. WWI,II Coalition divided the region to fit Israel in the region so no one can claim exclusive owner ship. People can not change the facts.


----------



## jillian

DarkFury said:


> *4/5ths of Palestine WAS in Egypt. How much land have they given up? NOTHING.*



actually, it was in transjordan.


----------



## jillian

Rehmani said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the other side of the coin?
> 
> *74 Palestinians Killed, 2355 Injured Since October 1*
> 
> Health Ministry: "74 Palestinians Killed, 2355 Injured Since October 1" - International Middle East Media Center
> 
> 
> 
> It's the same side of the islamo-coin. Islamic terrorism carries consequences.
> h
> But why the islamo-whining? "We love death more than you love life"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So pretty much in the same zionut-coin...
> 
> Occupy others land, suppress the people why do you zionuts whine when you get the odd rocket from those people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To me Zionist are jew too, we should not separate them. Jew are very tricky they always trouble under cover so they can tell to the democratic world they are innocent and zionsit making trouble then why you are giving them vote and backing them if they are not jew and why Palestinian Christian not supporting them if zionist are christian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, to confuse zionist and Jew is wrong...
> 
> Not all Jews are zionist!
> 
> Not all zionists are Jews...
> 
> There are plenty of Christians who support Zionism!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Israel name used and owned by and government formed by jews and jjews in majority then how Zionist are responsible.
Click to expand...


hahahahahahahaha!

israelites go back to canaan as far back as 15th to 6th centuries BC into modern times. later being called  judea by the romans and then the name palestine (coming from "philistine") was given the same land and same jewish people by occupiers.

learn history. i know you terrorist supporters have knowledge in short supply


----------



## Humanity

Rehmani said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the other side of the coin?
> 
> *74 Palestinians Killed, 2355 Injured Since October 1*
> 
> Health Ministry: "74 Palestinians Killed, 2355 Injured Since October 1" - International Middle East Media Center
> 
> 
> 
> It's the same side of the islamo-coin. Islamic terrorism carries consequences.
> h
> But why the islamo-whining? "We love death more than you love life"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So pretty much in the same zionut-coin...
> 
> Occupy others land, suppress the people why do you zionuts whine when you get the odd rocket from those people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To me Zionist are jew too, we should not separate them. Jew are very tricky they always trouble under cover so they can tell to the democratic world they are innocent and zionsit making trouble then why you are giving them vote and backing them if they are not jew and why Palestinian Christian not supporting them if zionist are christian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, to confuse zionist and Jew is wrong...
> 
> Not all Jews are zionist!
> 
> Not all zionists are Jews...
> 
> There are plenty of Christians who support Zionism!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Israel name used and owned by and government formed by jews and jjews in majority then how Zionist are responsible.
Click to expand...


Israeli government is a zionist government...

Not every Jew is a zionist, sorry!

There are differences between religion and politics!


----------



## Rehmani

jillian said:


> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> 
> *4/5ths of Palestine WAS in Egypt. How much land have they given up? NOTHING.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> actually, it was in transjordan.
Click to expand...

Well then how much land grab by Israel and how come more Palestinian living in camps, more than total Israel population.


----------



## Rehmani

jillian said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's the same side of the islamo-coin. Islamic terrorism carries consequences.
> h
> But why the islamo-whining? "We love death more than you love life"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So pretty much in the same zionut-coin...
> 
> Occupy others land, suppress the people why do you zionuts whine when you get the odd rocket from those people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To me Zionist are jew too, we should not separate them. Jew are very tricky they always trouble under cover so they can tell to the democratic world they are innocent and zionsit making trouble then why you are giving them vote and backing them if they are not jew and why Palestinian Christian not supporting them if zionist are christian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, to confuse zionist and Jew is wrong...
> 
> Not all Jews are zionist!
> 
> Not all zionists are Jews...
> 
> There are plenty of Christians who support Zionism!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Israel name used and owned by and government formed by jews and jjews in majority then how Zionist are responsible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hahahahahahahaha!
> 
> israelites go back to canaan as far back as 15th to 6th centuries BC into modern times. later being called  judea by the romans and then the name palestine (coming from "philistine") was given the same land and same jewish people by occupiers.
> 
> learn history. i know you terrorist supporters have knowledge in short supply
Click to expand...

I don't know who canaan was. When Moses PBUH show the direction for holy land and after few hundreds years Jesus PBUH born and when Jew martyr Him PBUH and then roman interfere and jew left but rest of Arab population left behind and this the reason Arab are native people in the holy land. Because they were there before Moses PBUH choose holy land for jews.


----------



## jillian

Rehmani said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> 
> *4/5ths of Palestine WAS in Egypt. How much land have they given up? NOTHING.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> actually, it was in transjordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well then how much land grab by Israel and how come more Palestinian living in camps, more than total Israel population.
Click to expand...


because on one side, Jordan didn't want them and locked them into refugee camps. on the other, the grand mufti of Jerusalem told them to leave Israel rather than share it and promised they would then send the jews into the sea.

that didn't work out so well for them.

even a terrorist supporter should understand that you can't keep waging war and losing and then demand the land you lose. particularly when every time you wage war, you lose more land.

at some point, you're just a loser who refuses to make peace but would rather blow up stuff


----------



## José

Jillian's posts are the perfect summation of the mentality of the american jewish community...

She supports the destruction of America's *NON SUPREMACIST* white majority through the changes in the country's immigration laws conceived and promoted by her fellow NYC Jew Emmanuel Celler and goes out of her way to justify Israel's *SUPREMACIST* jewish majority.


----------



## montelatici

Succinct and to the point.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Too much sanity for many people to handle.


----------



## American_Jihad

The Philistines *expanded into neighbouring areas and soon came into conflict with the **Israelites**,* a struggle represented by the Samson saga (Judges 13–16) in the Old Testament. With their superior arms and military organization the Philistines were able (_c._ 1050) to occupy part of the Judaean hill country. They were finally defeated by the Israelite king David (10th century), and thereafter their history was that of individual cities rather than of a people. After the division of Judah and Israel (10th century), the Philistines regained their independence and often engaged in border battles with those kingdoms.

Philistine | people


----------



## montelatici

The Philistines were already in Palestine when the Israelites started their exodus. Your link contradicts the Old Testament. 


The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.

Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. *During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. *The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.

The name Palestine originates from the Philistine inhabitance of the land of Judea. After the Romans conquered the region in the second century C.E., the Romans used the term _Palestinia _to refer to the region in an attempt to minimize Jewish attachment to the land. The Arabic use of the term _Filastin_ is from this Latin root.

The Philistines | Jewish Virtual Library


----------



## Mindful

Palestinian flag says it all:

1939 Palestinian Flag. What does it look like? Surprised?


----------



## Rehmani

jillian said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> 
> *4/5ths of Palestine WAS in Egypt. How much land have they given up? NOTHING.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> actually, it was in transjordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well then how much land grab by Israel and how come more Palestinian living in camps, more than total Israel population.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> because on one side, Jordan didn't want them and locked them into refugee camps. on the other, the grand mufti of Jerusalem told them to leave Israel rather than share it and promised they would then send the jews into the sea.
> 
> that didn't work out so well for them.
> 
> even a terrorist supporter should understand that you can't keep waging war and losing and then demand the land you lose. particularly when every time you wage war, you lose more land.
> 
> at some point, you're just a loser who refuses to make peace but would rather blow up stuff
Click to expand...

But then tell me how jew would survive if their all neighbors are un happy OR jews don't want to see other than a jew any way, means jew don't want to mix up with others. that is all about this thread is.


----------



## Mindful

Rehmani said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> 
> *4/5ths of Palestine WAS in Egypt. How much land have they given up? NOTHING.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> actually, it was in transjordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well then how much land grab by Israel and how come more Palestinian living in camps, more than total Israel population.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> because on one side, Jordan didn't want them and locked them into refugee camps. on the other, the grand mufti of Jerusalem told them to leave Israel rather than share it and promised they would then send the jews into the sea.
> 
> that didn't work out so well for them.
> 
> even a terrorist supporter should understand that you can't keep waging war and losing and then demand the land you lose. particularly when every time you wage war, you lose more land.
> 
> at some point, you're just a loser who refuses to make peace but would rather blow up stuff
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But then tell me how jew would survive if their all neighbors are un happy OR jews don't want to see other than a jew any way, means jew don't want to mix up with others. that is all about this thread is.
Click to expand...


Didn't understand one word of this.


----------



## montelatici

jillian said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> 
> *4/5ths of Palestine WAS in Egypt. How much land have they given up? NOTHING.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> actually, it was in transjordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well then how much land grab by Israel and how come more Palestinian living in camps, more than total Israel population.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> because on one side, Jordan didn't want them and locked them into refugee camps. on the other, the grand mufti of Jerusalem told them to leave Israel rather than share it and promised they would then send the jews into the sea.
> 
> that didn't work out so well for them.
> 
> even a terrorist supporter should understand that you can't keep waging war and losing and then demand the land you lose. particularly when every time you wage war, you lose more land.
> 
> at some point, you're just a loser who refuses to make peace but would rather blow up stuff
Click to expand...


Freedom fighters are only terrorists in the eyes of the colonist/oppressive regimes.  The Muhajedin were considered freedom fighters when they were fighting the Russians, now that they are fighting the U.S., their sons and grandsons are considered terrorists.  So don't give us the bullshit about the Palestinian freedom fighters being terrorists.  

The Palestinians are no more terrorists than the ANC were when they were bombing shopping centers in downtown Johannesburg.  The ANC lost every engagement with the South African Apartheid State security forces (which had nuclear weapons as Israel has).  

They lost more and more land to the whites.  But, the constant attacks and war on the whites finally forced the whites to come to the table and agree to majority rule.  Violence against an oppressive regime is the only answer.  Peaceful resistance against a powerful oppressor gets you nowhere, unfortunately.


----------



## jillian

Mindful said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> 
> *4/5ths of Palestine WAS in Egypt. How much land have they given up? NOTHING.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> actually, it was in transjordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well then how much land grab by Israel and how come more Palestinian living in camps, more than total Israel population.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> because on one side, Jordan didn't want them and locked them into refugee camps. on the other, the grand mufti of Jerusalem told them to leave Israel rather than share it and promised they would then send the jews into the sea.
> 
> that didn't work out so well for them.
> 
> even a terrorist supporter should understand that you can't keep waging war and losing and then demand the land you lose. particularly when every time you wage war, you lose more land.
> 
> at some point, you're just a loser who refuses to make peace but would rather blow up stuff
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But then tell me how jew would survive if their all neighbors are un happy OR jews don't want to see other than a jew any way, means jew don't want to mix up with others. that is all about this thread is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Didn't understand one word of this.
Click to expand...


because it was nonsense.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Why I Am in Israel -- and Why You Should Be*
* Taking a stand in the battle of good and evil. *
November 11, 2015
Dennis Prager







JERUSALEM — I want to explain why I am in Israel.

I am in here with 450 American (and a German and a Canadian) listeners to my radio show. About 400 are non-Jews. 

We are here on a "Stand with Israel" tour organized by the syndicator of my radio show, the Salem Radio Network, and I am accompanied by my wife, my producer Allen Estrin and his wife, and my radio colleague Mike Gallagher.

People frustrated with the direction of America and the direction of the world regularly ask: "What can I do to make any difference?"

Here is one of the best answers I know: Visit Israel. And do so especially when there are terror attacks. 

If every time there were a spate of attacks on Israel, few people canceled their trips to Israel. Or, if I may imagine a much better world than we live in, tourism to Israel actually increased, three huge things would be achieved.

First, Palestinians would get the message that there are many people outside of Israel who find the stabbings of Israeli Jews morally repulsive. 

Second, Palestinians would have to weigh their emotional high from murdering Israelis against the economic benefit Israel would receive in increased tourism. 

Third, Israelis would know they are not alone. When I came to Israel to broadcast my show during the worst of the suicide bombings of the Intifada in 2000, Israeli after Israeli would say to me, "Thank you for coming." (You can watch the documentary I made then.)

...

The truth is that a visit to Israel, even in when there are terrorist attacks, is extraordinarily safe. A visitor's chances of getting hurt are minuscule. But to the extent there is the slightest danger — well, we all have to decide how we want to live our lives in the few years we are granted. 

And when it comes to fighting for good and against evil, we can either play it safe or we can we do good. Very rarely can we do both.

Why I Am in Israel -- and Why You Should Be


----------



## montelatici

TUESDAY, NOV 10, 2015 03:16 PM EST

*“Occupation is root cause of violence”: Jewish-Americans protest at Israel’s Western Wall, call for boycott*
 

*Jewish-American activists with the peace organization CODEPINK protested at Israel’s Western Wall (also known as the Kotel or Wailing Wall) on Tuesday morning. They unfurled a banner that read “American Jews support BDS,” referring to Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions, a peaceful global human rights movement called for by Palestinian civil society that seeks to use nonviolent economic means to pressure the Israeli government to end its illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories, grant equal rights to Palestinian citizens, and allow Palestinians who were violently expelled from their ancestral lands to return — as is required by international law.






After five minutes, plain-clothed Israeli authorities confiscated their banner and told them to leave. The activists, Ariel Gold and Ariel Vegosen, were part of a week-long CODEPINK trip to Israel-Palestine, where they witnessed firsthand what life is like for Palestinians living under military occupation.

CODEPINK said that, during its trip, “along with helping Palestinian farmers with their olive harvest, the group witnessed Israel’s apartheid system of different roads, services, and laws for different people. They experienced major restrictions on Palestinian freedom of movement, the massive growth of illegal Jewish-only settlements on Palestinian land, and numerous human rights abuses against Palestinians.”

“At this moment of escalated violence in Palestine and Israel, we are here at the Kotel to pray for an end to the occupation, the root cause of the violence,” Gold and Vergosen explained. “As American Jews we take a stand in support of peace and justice for all people.”

A wave of unrest has recently swept Israel-Palestine. According to the Palestinian Health Ministry, in just over a month, from Oct. 1 to Nov. 8, more than 3,000 Palestinians were injured by Israeli soldiers and/or settlers. 79 Palestinians were killed, including 17 children and four women, along with an Eritrean refugee, who was lynched by an Israeli mob after being confused for a Palestinian militant. In the same time period, eight Israelis were killed.

Addressing the bloodshed, Gold and Vergosen stated in a CODEPINK statement “We know that the root cause of the violence is Israel’s occupation, dispossession, and violence against the Palestinian people and that America’s financial and political support is instrumental in allowing this to continue.”
*


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> TUESDAY, NOV 10, 2015 03:16 PM EST
> 
> *“Occupation is root cause of violence”: Jewish-Americans protest at Israel’s Western Wall, call for boycott*
> 
> 
> *Jewish-American activists with the peace organization CODEPINK protested at Israel’s Western Wall (also known as the Kotel or Wailing Wall) on Tuesday morning. They unfurled a banner that read “American Jews support BDS,” referring to Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions, a peaceful global human rights movement called for by Palestinian civil society that seeks to use nonviolent economic means to pressure the Israeli government to end its illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories, grant equal rights to Palestinian citizens, and allow Palestinians who were violently expelled from their ancestral lands to return — as is required by international law.*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *After five minutes, plain-clothed Israeli authorities confiscated their banner and told them to leave. The activists, Ariel Gold and Ariel Vegosen, were part of a week-long CODEPINK trip to Israel-Palestine, where they witnessed firsthand what life is like for Palestinians living under military occupation.*
> 
> *CODEPINK said that, during its trip, “along with helping Palestinian farmers with their olive harvest, the group witnessed Israel’s apartheid system of different roads, services, and laws for different people. They experienced major restrictions on Palestinian freedom of movement, the massive growth of illegal Jewish-only settlements on Palestinian land, and numerous human rights abuses against Palestinians.”*
> 
> *“At this moment of escalated violence in Palestine and Israel, we are here at the Kotel to pray for an end to the occupation, the root cause of the violence,” Gold and Vergosen explained. “As American Jews we take a stand in support of peace and justice for all people.”*
> 
> *A wave of unrest has recently swept Israel-Palestine. According to the Palestinian Health Ministry, in just over a month, from Oct. 1 to Nov. 8, more than 3,000 Palestinians were injured by Israeli soldiers and/or settlers. 79 Palestinians were killed, including 17 children and four women, along with an Eritrean refugee, who was lynched by an Israeli mob after being confused for a Palestinian militant. In the same time period, eight Israelis were killed.*
> 
> *Addressing the bloodshed, Gold and Vergosen stated in a CODEPINK statement “We know that the root cause of the violence is Israel’s occupation, dispossession, and violence against the Palestinian people and that America’s financial and political support is instrumental in allowing this to continue.”*


Scouring the web, it's possible to find any opinion you want - in your case, cutting and pasting the opinions of others.

The historical facts are that Islamist ideology is uncompromisingly hostile to competing religions, particularly Judaism; the concept of wagf, as explicitly delineated in the Hamas Charter will not allow for anything but the destruction of Israel, and, muhammedan intransigence as a result of islamo- fascism will be a continued source of denial for any islamo-middle East peace.


----------



## montelatici

No scouring needed. It was a news article from 2 days ago. LOL


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> No scouring needed. It was a news article from 2 days ago. LOL


So you managed to cut and paste an article from two days ago. 

Lovely. LOL.


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No scouring needed. It was a news article from 2 days ago. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> So you managed to cut and paste an article from two days ago.
> 
> Lovely. LOL.
Click to expand...


Just as your buddy cut and pasted a contemporaneous article.  What's your point?


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> The historical facts are that Islamist ideology is uncompromisingly hostile to competing religions, particularly Judaism;


Then why did they get along before the Zionists showed up?

There was no major incidents of violence between Jews and Arabs until the Zionist migration.

The truth is, you're a bunch of fucking assholes and you show it in the way you treat others.  Your posts are a perfect example of that.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No scouring needed. It was a news article from 2 days ago. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> So you managed to cut and paste an article from two days ago.
> 
> Lovely. LOL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just as your buddy cut and pasted a contemporaneous article.  What's your point?
Click to expand...

I just take no issue with pointing out your propensity for promoting islamo-propaganda.

You are the self-created victim of highly edited propaganda, not of an actual discussion of the issues. Dissent and protest are vital components of a free society—true hallmarks of democracy. Obviously, open dissent and access to knowledge is just not something that the muhammedan world is going to embrace.

But those like you, promoting the cause of virulently fascist muhammedans because it suits your politico-religious agenda is immoral, stupid, and dangerous.


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No scouring needed. It was a news article from 2 days ago. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> So you managed to cut and paste an article from two days ago.
> 
> Lovely. LOL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just as your buddy cut and pasted a contemporaneous article.  What's your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I just take no issue with pointing out your propensity for promoting islamo-propaganda.
> 
> You are the self-created victim of highly edited propaganda, not of an actual discussion of the issues. Dissent and protest are vital components of a free society—true hallmarks of democracy. Obviously, open dissent and access to knowledge is just not something that the muhammedan world is going to embrace.
> 
> But those like you, promoting the cause of virulently fascist muhammedans because it suits your politico-religious agenda is immoral, stupid, and dangerous.
Click to expand...


It was from a Jewish site.  How can it be "islamo-propaganda" propaganda? Grasping at straws.

At Ancient Jewish Heritage Site, American Jews Spread BDS Message - Israel News


----------



## American_Jihad

montelatici said:


> TUESDAY, NOV 10, 2015 03:16 PM EST
> 
> *“Occupation is root cause of violence”: Jewish-Americans protest at Israel’s Western Wall, call for boycott*
> 
> 
> *Jewish-American activists with the peace organization CODEPINK protested at Israel’s Western Wall (also known as the Kotel or Wailing Wall) on Tuesday morning. They unfurled a banner that read “American Jews support BDS,” referring to Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions, a peaceful global human rights movement called for by Palestinian civil society that seeks to use nonviolent economic means to pressure the Israeli government to end its illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories, grant equal rights to Palestinian citizens, and allow Palestinians who were violently expelled from their ancestral lands to return — as is required by international law.*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *After five minutes, plain-clothed Israeli authorities confiscated their banner and told them to leave. The activists, Ariel Gold and Ariel Vegosen, were part of a week-long CODEPINK trip to Israel-Palestine, where they witnessed firsthand what life is like for Palestinians living under military occupation.*
> 
> *CODEPINK said that, during its trip, “along with helping Palestinian farmers with their olive harvest, the group witnessed Israel’s apartheid system of different roads, services, and laws for different people. They experienced major restrictions on Palestinian freedom of movement, the massive growth of illegal Jewish-only settlements on Palestinian land, and numerous human rights abuses against Palestinians.”*
> 
> *“At this moment of escalated violence in Palestine and Israel, we are here at the Kotel to pray for an end to the occupation, the root cause of the violence,” Gold and Vergosen explained. “As American Jews we take a stand in support of peace and justice for all people.”*
> 
> *A wave of unrest has recently swept Israel-Palestine. According to the Palestinian Health Ministry, in just over a month, from Oct. 1 to Nov. 8, more than 3,000 Palestinians were injured by Israeli soldiers and/or settlers. 79 Palestinians were killed, including 17 children and four women, along with an Eritrean refugee, who was lynched by an Israeli mob after being confused for a Palestinian militant. In the same time period, eight Israelis were killed.*
> 
> *Addressing the bloodshed, Gold and Vergosen stated in a CODEPINK statement “We know that the root cause of the violence is Israel’s occupation, dispossession, and violence against the Palestinian people and that America’s financial and political support is instrumental in allowing this to continue.”*







Code pink has nothing better to do with that double standard B/S...




They are anti conservative, they won't fuck with obongo war crimes...


----------



## Hollie

Pal'istanian identity?

It goes something like this:


----------



## montelatici

Two can play your game.


----------



## American_Jihad

montelatici said:


> Two can play your game.


Before




After


----------



## Billo_Really




----------



## P F Tinmore

American_Jihad said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two can play your game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two can play your game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Recipient of the very generous "Hellfire Missile Delivered Early Retirement Program for Wasters of Oxygen".


----------



## Rehmani

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> TUESDAY, NOV 10, 2015 03:16 PM EST
> 
> *“Occupation is root cause of violence”: Jewish-Americans protest at Israel’s Western Wall, call for boycott*
> 
> 
> *Jewish-American activists with the peace organization CODEPINK protested at Israel’s Western Wall (also known as the Kotel or Wailing Wall) on Tuesday morning. They unfurled a banner that read “American Jews support BDS,” referring to Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions, a peaceful global human rights movement called for by Palestinian civil society that seeks to use nonviolent economic means to pressure the Israeli government to end its illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories, grant equal rights to Palestinian citizens, and allow Palestinians who were violently expelled from their ancestral lands to return — as is required by international law.*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *After five minutes, plain-clothed Israeli authorities confiscated their banner and told them to leave. The activists, Ariel Gold and Ariel Vegosen, were part of a week-long CODEPINK trip to Israel-Palestine, where they witnessed firsthand what life is like for Palestinians living under military occupation.*
> 
> *CODEPINK said that, during its trip, “along with helping Palestinian farmers with their olive harvest, the group witnessed Israel’s apartheid system of different roads, services, and laws for different people. They experienced major restrictions on Palestinian freedom of movement, the massive growth of illegal Jewish-only settlements on Palestinian land, and numerous human rights abuses against Palestinians.”*
> 
> *“At this moment of escalated violence in Palestine and Israel, we are here at the Kotel to pray for an end to the occupation, the root cause of the violence,” Gold and Vergosen explained. “As American Jews we take a stand in support of peace and justice for all people.”*
> 
> *A wave of unrest has recently swept Israel-Palestine. According to the Palestinian Health Ministry, in just over a month, from Oct. 1 to Nov. 8, more than 3,000 Palestinians were injured by Israeli soldiers and/or settlers. 79 Palestinians were killed, including 17 children and four women, along with an Eritrean refugee, who was lynched by an Israeli mob after being confused for a Palestinian militant. In the same time period, eight Israelis were killed.*
> 
> *Addressing the bloodshed, Gold and Vergosen stated in a CODEPINK statement “We know that the root cause of the violence is Israel’s occupation, dispossession, and violence against the Palestinian people and that America’s financial and political support is instrumental in allowing this to continue.”*
> 
> 
> 
> Scouring the web, it's possible to find any opinion you want - in your case, cutting and pasting the opinions of others.
> 
> The historical facts are that Islamist ideology is uncompromisingly hostile to competing religions, particularly Judaism; the concept of wagf, as explicitly delineated in the Hamas Charter will not allow for anything but the destruction of Israel, and, muhammedan intransigence as a result of islamo- fascism will be a continued source of denial for any islamo-middle East peace.
Click to expand...


Look Muslim never fight against jew in recent past and look jew killing Muslim badly like jew are alien.

And look same time Muslim and Christian fought for holy land for long time and they learned that they can live together and they proved to live for 900 years until jew plot the peace and turn holy land in mess.


----------



## American_Jihad

P F Tinmore said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two can play your game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The historical facts are that Islamist ideology is uncompromisingly hostile to competing religions, particularly Judaism;
> 
> 
> 
> Then why did they get along before the Zionists showed up?
> 
> There was no major incidents of violence between Jews and Arabs until the Zionist migration.
> 
> The truth is, you're a bunch of fucking assholes and you show it in the way you treat others.  Your posts are a perfect example of that.
Click to expand...






 And your source for this is an islamonazi one, correct. And the link I provided shows that there has been violence towards the Jews from well before 1875 when the first Zionists arrived in Palestine.

Read the koran and hadiths and see that they command the muslims kill the Jews and Christians


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> TUESDAY, NOV 10, 2015 03:16 PM EST
> 
> *“Occupation is root cause of violence”: Jewish-Americans protest at Israel’s Western Wall, call for boycott*
> 
> 
> *Jewish-American activists with the peace organization CODEPINK protested at Israel’s Western Wall (also known as the Kotel or Wailing Wall) on Tuesday morning. They unfurled a banner that read “American Jews support BDS,” referring to Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions, a peaceful global human rights movement called for by Palestinian civil society that seeks to use nonviolent economic means to pressure the Israeli government to end its illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories, grant equal rights to Palestinian citizens, and allow Palestinians who were violently expelled from their ancestral lands to return — as is required by international law.*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *After five minutes, plain-clothed Israeli authorities confiscated their banner and told them to leave. The activists, Ariel Gold and Ariel Vegosen, were part of a week-long CODEPINK trip to Israel-Palestine, where they witnessed firsthand what life is like for Palestinians living under military occupation.*
> 
> *CODEPINK said that, during its trip, “along with helping Palestinian farmers with their olive harvest, the group witnessed Israel’s apartheid system of different roads, services, and laws for different people. They experienced major restrictions on Palestinian freedom of movement, the massive growth of illegal Jewish-only settlements on Palestinian land, and numerous human rights abuses against Palestinians.”*
> 
> *“At this moment of escalated violence in Palestine and Israel, we are here at the Kotel to pray for an end to the occupation, the root cause of the violence,” Gold and Vergosen explained. “As American Jews we take a stand in support of peace and justice for all people.”*
> 
> *A wave of unrest has recently swept Israel-Palestine. According to the Palestinian Health Ministry, in just over a month, from Oct. 1 to Nov. 8, more than 3,000 Palestinians were injured by Israeli soldiers and/or settlers. 79 Palestinians were killed, including 17 children and four women, along with an Eritrean refugee, who was lynched by an Israeli mob after being confused for a Palestinian militant. In the same time period, eight Israelis were killed.*
> 
> *Addressing the bloodshed, Gold and Vergosen stated in a CODEPINK statement “We know that the root cause of the violence is Israel’s occupation, dispossession, and violence against the Palestinian people and that America’s financial and political support is instrumental in allowing this to continue.”*
> 
> 
> 
> Scouring the web, it's possible to find any opinion you want - in your case, cutting and pasting the opinions of others.
> 
> The historical facts are that Islamist ideology is uncompromisingly hostile to competing religions, particularly Judaism; the concept of wagf, as explicitly delineated in the Hamas Charter will not allow for anything but the destruction of Israel, and, muhammedan intransigence as a result of islamo- fascism will be a continued source of denial for any islamo-middle East peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look Muslim never fight against jew in recent past and look jew killing Muslim badly like jew are alien.
> 
> And look same time Muslim and Christian fought for holy land for long time and they learned that they can live together and they proved to live for 900 years until jew plot the peace and turn holy land in mess.
Click to expand...





 That is right because the muslims would not allow them to have any weapons, any Jew or Christian suspected of having a weapon was murdered on the spot. All written down in the Islamic histories and chronicles


----------



## American_Jihad

*Latest Palestinian Innovations: The Grandmother-Terrorist, the Lone-Wolf Child*
* While Israelis stand firm as ever against the barbarity. *
November 16, 2015
P. David Hornik






Earlier this month a Palestinian tried to run over an Israeli soldier at a roadblock near Hebron in the West Bank. Other soldiers fired at the driver, who was wounded, taken to hospital, and died there.

It turns out that the Palestinian, Tharwat Ibrahim al-Sha’rawi, was a 72-year-old woman. The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center (ITIC), in a report on the incident, says she was a mother of five, and it can safely be assumed that she was a grandmother as well. 

Tharwat al-Sha’rawi was the widow of a terrorist killed by Israeli fire near Hebron in 1988, and a son-in-law of hers is a Hamas member now imprisoned in Israel. A knife was found in a bag inside the car she drove. And “two weeks before her death,” the ITIC notes, 

Tharwat al-Sha’rawi wrote a will and spoke with her daughter Ihlam. She said the following: “I think I am going to die soon.… If I die, oh, Allah, let me die as a shaheeda and not in my bed” (Shasha.ps, November 8, 2015).

Even in the world of today’s terrorism, now very much in the spotlight after the Paris massacres, Tharwat al-Sha’rawi’s age and personal status would appear to make her unique. 

If so, she is hardly the Palestinians’ first innovation. They did much to pioneer the phenomenon of the female terrorist with figures like Leila Khaled and Dalal Mughrabi. They also were the pioneers of airline terror, still very much with us as in the downing of the Russian plane over Sinai.

To this record of inventiveness can now be added: the grandmother-terrorist. 

And the latest wave of Palestinian anti-Israeli terrorism has seen yet another novelty: the lone-wolf child-terrorist.

If “child” is defined as someone under 18 years old, then this phenomenon is not so new; there already were “child” suicide bombers in the Second Intifada, and there have been several teenage stabbers in the current wave. But an attack last Tuesday managed to go one-up on the teen-terrorist phenomenon.  

...

Those attempting to understand—and there are many of them—the “Israeli-Palestinian conflict” or “Israeli-Arab conflict” would be wise to begin from a standpoint of humility. Hatred that drives a grandmother, or a child, to indiscriminately ram and stab is nearly unfathomable. A whole industry of attempts—particularly Israeli and American—at compromise and conciliation have not put a dent in it. 

Also nearly unfathomable is resolve and love of one’s homeland and country so great that it stands firm against the horrors and atrocities.  

Latest Palestinian Innovations: The Grandmother-Terrorist, the Lone-Wolf Child


----------



## montelatici

"Hatred that drives a grandmother, or a child, to indiscriminately ram and stab is nearly unfathomable."

Not really.  Having one's parents (or grandparents) driven from their home and having to live under subjugation and possibly having had children and/or other family members killed, would drive many to crazy reactions.  I don't think the Native American squaws that would attack the U.S. Cavalry with knives were not much different. They usually were killed in the attempts.


----------



## member

American_Jihad said:


> *Islam/Commentary: *
> 
> *WHAT THE QUR'AN REALLY SAYS*
> *by Shaykh Prof. Abdul Hadi Palazzi*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *THE QUR'AN SAYS THAT ALLAH GAVE THE LAND OF ISRAEL TO THE JEWS
> AND WILL RESTORE THEM TO IT AT THE END OF DAYS*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE QUR'AN SAYS:
> 
> "To Moses We [Allah] gave nine clear signs. Ask the Israelites how he [Moses] first appeared amongst them. Pharoah said to him: 'Moses, I can see that you are bewitched.' 'You know full well,' he [Moses] replied, 'that none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth has revealed these visible signs. Pharoah, you are doomed.'"
> 
> "Pharoah sought to scare them [the Israelites] out of the land [of Israel]: but We [Allah] drowned him [Pharoah] together with all who were with him. Then We [Allah] said to the Israelites: 'Dwell in this land [the Land of Israel]. When the promise of the hereafter [End of Days] comes to be fulfilled, We [Allah] shall assemble you [the Israelites] all together [in the Land of Israel]."
> 
> "We [Allah] have revealed the Qur'an with the truth, and with the truth it has come down. We have sent you [Muhammed] forth only to proclaim good news and to give warning."
> 
> [Qur'an, "Night Journey," chapter 17:100-104]
> 
> SHAYKH PROF. PALAZZI COMMENTS:
> 
> God wanted to give Avraham a double blessing, through Ishmael and through Isaac, and ordered that Ishmael's descendents should live in the desert of Arabia and Isaac's in Canaan.
> 
> The Qur'an recognizes the Land of Israel as the heritage of the Jews and it explains that, before the Last Judgment, Jews will return to dwell there. This prophecy has already been fulfilled.
> 
> ****************************************
> 
> 
> MUSLIMS MUST RECOGNIZE THE STATE OF ISRAEL AS A JEWISH STATE
> 
> ...
> 
> The Qur'an and the Land of Israel
> 
> ...
> 
> Koran Says Land Belongs To Israel | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum




*WHAT THE QUR'AN REALLY SAYS
*
..that my head, face and body should be covered up like a GRIM REAPER character.




all you _gotta_ do is look:













​


----------



## montelatici

Oh dear.


----------



## American_Jihad

montelatici said:


> "Hatred that drives a grandmother, or a child, to indiscriminately ram and stab is nearly unfathomable."
> 
> Not really.  Having one's parents (or grandparents) driven from their home and having to live under subjugation and possibly having had children and/or other family members killed, would drive many to crazy reactions.  I don't think the Native American squaws that would attack the U.S. Cavalry with knives were not much different. They usually were killed in the attempts.


ENJOY...

Hadrian Rome and the Jews, Emperor


----------



## Challenger

American_Jihad said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Hatred that drives a grandmother, or a child, to indiscriminately ram and stab is nearly unfathomable."
> 
> Not really.  Having one's parents (or grandparents) driven from their home and having to live under subjugation and possibly having had children and/or other family members killed, would drive many to crazy reactions.  I don't think the Native American squaws that would attack the U.S. Cavalry with knives were not much different. They usually were killed in the attempts.
> 
> 
> 
> ENJOY...
> 
> Hadrian Rome and the Jews, Emperor
Click to expand...


Seriously? A Roman Emperor, known for his compence and experience and responsible for the  the most stable, peaceful and economically prosperous era in Roman imperial history, had nothing better to do than "trick" a bunch of slaves/cultists by saying one thing and then changing his mind, I despair of America's education system. I really do.


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> TUESDAY, NOV 10, 2015 03:16 PM EST
> 
> *“Occupation is root cause of violence”: Jewish-Americans protest at Israel’s Western Wall, call for boycott*
> 
> 
> *Jewish-American activists with the peace organization CODEPINK protested at Israel’s Western Wall (also known as the Kotel or Wailing Wall) on Tuesday morning. They unfurled a banner that read “American Jews support BDS,” referring to Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions, a peaceful global human rights movement called for by Palestinian civil society that seeks to use nonviolent economic means to pressure the Israeli government to end its illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories, grant equal rights to Palestinian citizens, and allow Palestinians who were violently expelled from their ancestral lands to return — as is required by international law.*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *After five minutes, plain-clothed Israeli authorities confiscated their banner and told them to leave. The activists, Ariel Gold and Ariel Vegosen, were part of a week-long CODEPINK trip to Israel-Palestine, where they witnessed firsthand what life is like for Palestinians living under military occupation.*
> 
> *CODEPINK said that, during its trip, “along with helping Palestinian farmers with their olive harvest, the group witnessed Israel’s apartheid system of different roads, services, and laws for different people. They experienced major restrictions on Palestinian freedom of movement, the massive growth of illegal Jewish-only settlements on Palestinian land, and numerous human rights abuses against Palestinians.”*
> 
> *“At this moment of escalated violence in Palestine and Israel, we are here at the Kotel to pray for an end to the occupation, the root cause of the violence,” Gold and Vergosen explained. “As American Jews we take a stand in support of peace and justice for all people.”*
> 
> *A wave of unrest has recently swept Israel-Palestine. According to the Palestinian Health Ministry, in just over a month, from Oct. 1 to Nov. 8, more than 3,000 Palestinians were injured by Israeli soldiers and/or settlers. 79 Palestinians were killed, including 17 children and four women, along with an Eritrean refugee, who was lynched by an Israeli mob after being confused for a Palestinian militant. In the same time period, eight Israelis were killed.*
> 
> *Addressing the bloodshed, Gold and Vergosen stated in a CODEPINK statement “We know that the root cause of the violence is Israel’s occupation, dispossession, and violence against the Palestinian people and that America’s financial and political support is instrumental in allowing this to continue.”*
> 
> 
> 
> Scouring the web, it's possible to find any opinion you want - in your case, cutting and pasting the opinions of others.
> 
> The historical facts are that Islamist ideology is uncompromisingly hostile to competing religions, particularly Judaism; the concept of wagf, as explicitly delineated in the Hamas Charter will not allow for anything but the destruction of Israel, and, muhammedan intransigence as a result of islamo- fascism will be a continued source of denial for any islamo-middle East peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look Muslim never fight against jew in recent past and look jew killing Muslim badly like jew are alien.
> 
> And look same time Muslim and Christian fought for holy land for long time and they learned that they can live together and they proved to live for 900 years until jew plot the peace and turn holy land in mess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is right because the muslims would not allow them to have any weapons, any Jew or Christian suspected of having a weapon was murdered on the spot. All written down in the Islamic histories and chronicles
Click to expand...

How cruel you are, dirty phoney. Can


Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> TUESDAY, NOV 10, 2015 03:16 PM EST
> 
> *“Occupation is root cause of violence”: Jewish-Americans protest at Israel’s Western Wall, call for boycott*
> 
> 
> *Jewish-American activists with the peace organization CODEPINK protested at Israel’s Western Wall (also known as the Kotel or Wailing Wall) on Tuesday morning. They unfurled a banner that read “American Jews support BDS,” referring to Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions, a peaceful global human rights movement called for by Palestinian civil society that seeks to use nonviolent economic means to pressure the Israeli government to end its illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories, grant equal rights to Palestinian citizens, and allow Palestinians who were violently expelled from their ancestral lands to return — as is required by international law.*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *After five minutes, plain-clothed Israeli authorities confiscated their banner and told them to leave. The activists, Ariel Gold and Ariel Vegosen, were part of a week-long CODEPINK trip to Israel-Palestine, where they witnessed firsthand what life is like for Palestinians living under military occupation.*
> 
> *CODEPINK said that, during its trip, “along with helping Palestinian farmers with their olive harvest, the group witnessed Israel’s apartheid system of different roads, services, and laws for different people. They experienced major restrictions on Palestinian freedom of movement, the massive growth of illegal Jewish-only settlements on Palestinian land, and numerous human rights abuses against Palestinians.”*
> 
> *“At this moment of escalated violence in Palestine and Israel, we are here at the Kotel to pray for an end to the occupation, the root cause of the violence,” Gold and Vergosen explained. “As American Jews we take a stand in support of peace and justice for all people.”*
> 
> *A wave of unrest has recently swept Israel-Palestine. According to the Palestinian Health Ministry, in just over a month, from Oct. 1 to Nov. 8, more than 3,000 Palestinians were injured by Israeli soldiers and/or settlers. 79 Palestinians were killed, including 17 children and four women, along with an Eritrean refugee, who was lynched by an Israeli mob after being confused for a Palestinian militant. In the same time period, eight Israelis were killed.*
> 
> *Addressing the bloodshed, Gold and Vergosen stated in a CODEPINK statement “We know that the root cause of the violence is Israel’s occupation, dispossession, and violence against the Palestinian people and that America’s financial and political support is instrumental in allowing this to continue.”*
> 
> 
> 
> Scouring the web, it's possible to find any opinion you want - in your case, cutting and pasting the opinions of others.
> 
> The historical facts are that Islamist ideology is uncompromisingly hostile to competing religions, particularly Judaism; the concept of wagf, as explicitly delineated in the Hamas Charter will not allow for anything but the destruction of Israel, and, muhammedan intransigence as a result of islamo- fascism will be a continued source of denial for any islamo-middle East peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look Muslim never fight against jew in recent past and look jew killing Muslim badly like jew are alien.
> 
> And look same time Muslim and Christian fought for holy land for long time and they learned that they can live together and they proved to live for 900 years until jew plot the peace and turn holy land in mess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is right because the muslims would not allow them to have any weapons, any Jew or Christian suspected of having a weapon was murdered on the spot. All written down in the Islamic histories and chronicles
Click to expand...

How cruel you are dirty phoney. United holy land for 900 years was perfect example for cross religion brotherhood where Christian, Muslim and jews, were living happily.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Oh dear.







 Fancy dress for a religious holiday and not everyday wear.   You lose again freddy


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> TUESDAY, NOV 10, 2015 03:16 PM EST
> 
> *“Occupation is root cause of violence”: Jewish-Americans protest at Israel’s Western Wall, call for boycott*
> 
> 
> *Jewish-American activists with the peace organization CODEPINK protested at Israel’s Western Wall (also known as the Kotel or Wailing Wall) on Tuesday morning. They unfurled a banner that read “American Jews support BDS,” referring to Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions, a peaceful global human rights movement called for by Palestinian civil society that seeks to use nonviolent economic means to pressure the Israeli government to end its illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories, grant equal rights to Palestinian citizens, and allow Palestinians who were violently expelled from their ancestral lands to return — as is required by international law.*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *After five minutes, plain-clothed Israeli authorities confiscated their banner and told them to leave. The activists, Ariel Gold and Ariel Vegosen, were part of a week-long CODEPINK trip to Israel-Palestine, where they witnessed firsthand what life is like for Palestinians living under military occupation.*
> 
> *CODEPINK said that, during its trip, “along with helping Palestinian farmers with their olive harvest, the group witnessed Israel’s apartheid system of different roads, services, and laws for different people. They experienced major restrictions on Palestinian freedom of movement, the massive growth of illegal Jewish-only settlements on Palestinian land, and numerous human rights abuses against Palestinians.”*
> 
> *“At this moment of escalated violence in Palestine and Israel, we are here at the Kotel to pray for an end to the occupation, the root cause of the violence,” Gold and Vergosen explained. “As American Jews we take a stand in support of peace and justice for all people.”*
> 
> *A wave of unrest has recently swept Israel-Palestine. According to the Palestinian Health Ministry, in just over a month, from Oct. 1 to Nov. 8, more than 3,000 Palestinians were injured by Israeli soldiers and/or settlers. 79 Palestinians were killed, including 17 children and four women, along with an Eritrean refugee, who was lynched by an Israeli mob after being confused for a Palestinian militant. In the same time period, eight Israelis were killed.*
> 
> *Addressing the bloodshed, Gold and Vergosen stated in a CODEPINK statement “We know that the root cause of the violence is Israel’s occupation, dispossession, and violence against the Palestinian people and that America’s financial and political support is instrumental in allowing this to continue.”*
> 
> 
> 
> Scouring the web, it's possible to find any opinion you want - in your case, cutting and pasting the opinions of others.
> 
> The historical facts are that Islamist ideology is uncompromisingly hostile to competing religions, particularly Judaism; the concept of wagf, as explicitly delineated in the Hamas Charter will not allow for anything but the destruction of Israel, and, muhammedan intransigence as a result of islamo- fascism will be a continued source of denial for any islamo-middle East peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look Muslim never fight against jew in recent past and look jew killing Muslim badly like jew are alien.
> 
> And look same time Muslim and Christian fought for holy land for long time and they learned that they can live together and they proved to live for 900 years until jew plot the peace and turn holy land in mess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is right because the muslims would not allow them to have any weapons, any Jew or Christian suspected of having a weapon was murdered on the spot. All written down in the Islamic histories and chronicles
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How cruel you are, dirty phoney. Can
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> TUESDAY, NOV 10, 2015 03:16 PM EST
> 
> *“Occupation is root cause of violence”: Jewish-Americans protest at Israel’s Western Wall, call for boycott*
> 
> 
> *Jewish-American activists with the peace organization CODEPINK protested at Israel’s Western Wall (also known as the Kotel or Wailing Wall) on Tuesday morning. They unfurled a banner that read “American Jews support BDS,” referring to Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions, a peaceful global human rights movement called for by Palestinian civil society that seeks to use nonviolent economic means to pressure the Israeli government to end its illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories, grant equal rights to Palestinian citizens, and allow Palestinians who were violently expelled from their ancestral lands to return — as is required by international law.*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *After five minutes, plain-clothed Israeli authorities confiscated their banner and told them to leave. The activists, Ariel Gold and Ariel Vegosen, were part of a week-long CODEPINK trip to Israel-Palestine, where they witnessed firsthand what life is like for Palestinians living under military occupation.*
> 
> *CODEPINK said that, during its trip, “along with helping Palestinian farmers with their olive harvest, the group witnessed Israel’s apartheid system of different roads, services, and laws for different people. They experienced major restrictions on Palestinian freedom of movement, the massive growth of illegal Jewish-only settlements on Palestinian land, and numerous human rights abuses against Palestinians.”*
> 
> *“At this moment of escalated violence in Palestine and Israel, we are here at the Kotel to pray for an end to the occupation, the root cause of the violence,” Gold and Vergosen explained. “As American Jews we take a stand in support of peace and justice for all people.”*
> 
> *A wave of unrest has recently swept Israel-Palestine. According to the Palestinian Health Ministry, in just over a month, from Oct. 1 to Nov. 8, more than 3,000 Palestinians were injured by Israeli soldiers and/or settlers. 79 Palestinians were killed, including 17 children and four women, along with an Eritrean refugee, who was lynched by an Israeli mob after being confused for a Palestinian militant. In the same time period, eight Israelis were killed.*
> 
> *Addressing the bloodshed, Gold and Vergosen stated in a CODEPINK statement “We know that the root cause of the violence is Israel’s occupation, dispossession, and violence against the Palestinian people and that America’s financial and political support is instrumental in allowing this to continue.”*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Scouring the web, it's possible to find any opinion you want - in your case, cutting and pasting the opinions of others.
> 
> The historical facts are that Islamist ideology is uncompromisingly hostile to competing religions, particularly Judaism; the concept of wagf, as explicitly delineated in the Hamas Charter will not allow for anything but the destruction of Israel, and, muhammedan intransigence as a result of islamo- fascism will be a continued source of denial for any islamo-middle East peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look Muslim never fight against jew in recent past and look jew killing Muslim badly like jew are alien.
> 
> And look same time Muslim and Christian fought for holy land for long time and they learned that they can live together and they proved to live for 900 years until jew plot the peace and turn holy land in mess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is right because the muslims would not allow them to have any weapons, any Jew or Christian suspected of having a weapon was murdered on the spot. All written down in the Islamic histories and chronicles
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How cruel you are dirty phoney. United holy land for 900 years was perfect example for cross religion brotherhood where Christian, Muslim and jews, were living happily.
Click to expand...






The fact is you LIE to cover up the mass murders, atrocities and violence from muslims that has not changed since mo'mad wiped out the Jews from Medina. It is not cruel to recite the truth as written down by muslims from that era, how the Jews and Christians were not allowed to wear white, had to walk in the gutter, could not ride anything but an ass, could not repair their temples, churches and synagogues. Had to wear clothing that set them aside as a Jew or Christian, could not own a weapon, could not defend themselves in time of war, had to pay jizya and suffer beatings while doing so. These are still alive and well in many Islamic nations, and the reports from Pakistan show what fate awaits the non muslims if they even look at a muslim wrong.

 I have studied the laws of islam and know what they say, just as I have studied the atrocities and have shown the facts to you and still you deny their very existence


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> TUESDAY, NOV 10, 2015 03:16 PM EST
> 
> *“Occupation is root cause of violence”: Jewish-Americans protest at Israel’s Western Wall, call for boycott*
> 
> 
> *Jewish-American activists with the peace organization CODEPINK protested at Israel’s Western Wall (also known as the Kotel or Wailing Wall) on Tuesday morning. They unfurled a banner that read “American Jews support BDS,” referring to Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions, a peaceful global human rights movement called for by Palestinian civil society that seeks to use nonviolent economic means to pressure the Israeli government to end its illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories, grant equal rights to Palestinian citizens, and allow Palestinians who were violently expelled from their ancestral lands to return — as is required by international law.*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *After five minutes, plain-clothed Israeli authorities confiscated their banner and told them to leave. The activists, Ariel Gold and Ariel Vegosen, were part of a week-long CODEPINK trip to Israel-Palestine, where they witnessed firsthand what life is like for Palestinians living under military occupation.*
> 
> *CODEPINK said that, during its trip, “along with helping Palestinian farmers with their olive harvest, the group witnessed Israel’s apartheid system of different roads, services, and laws for different people. They experienced major restrictions on Palestinian freedom of movement, the massive growth of illegal Jewish-only settlements on Palestinian land, and numerous human rights abuses against Palestinians.”*
> 
> *“At this moment of escalated violence in Palestine and Israel, we are here at the Kotel to pray for an end to the occupation, the root cause of the violence,” Gold and Vergosen explained. “As American Jews we take a stand in support of peace and justice for all people.”*
> 
> *A wave of unrest has recently swept Israel-Palestine. According to the Palestinian Health Ministry, in just over a month, from Oct. 1 to Nov. 8, more than 3,000 Palestinians were injured by Israeli soldiers and/or settlers. 79 Palestinians were killed, including 17 children and four women, along with an Eritrean refugee, who was lynched by an Israeli mob after being confused for a Palestinian militant. In the same time period, eight Israelis were killed.*
> 
> *Addressing the bloodshed, Gold and Vergosen stated in a CODEPINK statement “We know that the root cause of the violence is Israel’s occupation, dispossession, and violence against the Palestinian people and that America’s financial and political support is instrumental in allowing this to continue.”*
> 
> 
> 
> Scouring the web, it's possible to find any opinion you want - in your case, cutting and pasting the opinions of others.
> 
> The historical facts are that Islamist ideology is uncompromisingly hostile to competing religions, particularly Judaism; the concept of wagf, as explicitly delineated in the Hamas Charter will not allow for anything but the destruction of Israel, and, muhammedan intransigence as a result of islamo- fascism will be a continued source of denial for any islamo-middle East peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look Muslim never fight against jew in recent past and look jew killing Muslim badly like jew are alien.
> 
> And look same time Muslim and Christian fought for holy land for long time and they learned that they can live together and they proved to live for 900 years until jew plot the peace and turn holy land in mess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is right because the muslims would not allow them to have any weapons, any Jew or Christian suspected of having a weapon was murdered on the spot. All written down in the Islamic histories and chronicles
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How cruel you are, dirty phoney. Can
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> TUESDAY, NOV 10, 2015 03:16 PM EST
> 
> *“Occupation is root cause of violence”: Jewish-Americans protest at Israel’s Western Wall, call for boycott*
> 
> 
> *Jewish-American activists with the peace organization CODEPINK protested at Israel’s Western Wall (also known as the Kotel or Wailing Wall) on Tuesday morning. They unfurled a banner that read “American Jews support BDS,” referring to Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions, a peaceful global human rights movement called for by Palestinian civil society that seeks to use nonviolent economic means to pressure the Israeli government to end its illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories, grant equal rights to Palestinian citizens, and allow Palestinians who were violently expelled from their ancestral lands to return — as is required by international law.*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *After five minutes, plain-clothed Israeli authorities confiscated their banner and told them to leave. The activists, Ariel Gold and Ariel Vegosen, were part of a week-long CODEPINK trip to Israel-Palestine, where they witnessed firsthand what life is like for Palestinians living under military occupation.*
> 
> *CODEPINK said that, during its trip, “along with helping Palestinian farmers with their olive harvest, the group witnessed Israel’s apartheid system of different roads, services, and laws for different people. They experienced major restrictions on Palestinian freedom of movement, the massive growth of illegal Jewish-only settlements on Palestinian land, and numerous human rights abuses against Palestinians.”*
> 
> *“At this moment of escalated violence in Palestine and Israel, we are here at the Kotel to pray for an end to the occupation, the root cause of the violence,” Gold and Vergosen explained. “As American Jews we take a stand in support of peace and justice for all people.”*
> 
> *A wave of unrest has recently swept Israel-Palestine. According to the Palestinian Health Ministry, in just over a month, from Oct. 1 to Nov. 8, more than 3,000 Palestinians were injured by Israeli soldiers and/or settlers. 79 Palestinians were killed, including 17 children and four women, along with an Eritrean refugee, who was lynched by an Israeli mob after being confused for a Palestinian militant. In the same time period, eight Israelis were killed.*
> 
> *Addressing the bloodshed, Gold and Vergosen stated in a CODEPINK statement “We know that the root cause of the violence is Israel’s occupation, dispossession, and violence against the Palestinian people and that America’s financial and political support is instrumental in allowing this to continue.”*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Scouring the web, it's possible to find any opinion you want - in your case, cutting and pasting the opinions of others.
> 
> The historical facts are that Islamist ideology is uncompromisingly hostile to competing religions, particularly Judaism; the concept of wagf, as explicitly delineated in the Hamas Charter will not allow for anything but the destruction of Israel, and, muhammedan intransigence as a result of islamo- fascism will be a continued source of denial for any islamo-middle East peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look Muslim never fight against jew in recent past and look jew killing Muslim badly like jew are alien.
> 
> And look same time Muslim and Christian fought for holy land for long time and they learned that they can live together and they proved to live for 900 years until jew plot the peace and turn holy land in mess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is right because the muslims would not allow them to have any weapons, any Jew or Christian suspected of having a weapon was murdered on the spot. All written down in the Islamic histories and chronicles
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How cruel you are dirty phoney. United holy land for 900 years was perfect example for cross religion brotherhood where Christian, Muslim and jews, were living happily.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is you LIE to cover up the mass murders, atrocities and violence from muslims that has not changed since mo'mad wiped out the Jews from Medina. It is not cruel to recite the truth as written down by muslims from that era, how the Jews and Christians were not allowed to wear white, had to walk in the gutter, could not ride anything but an ass, could not repair their temples, churches and synagogues. Had to wear clothing that set them aside as a Jew or Christian, could not own a weapon, could not defend themselves in time of war, had to pay jizya and suffer beatings while doing so. These are still alive and well in many Islamic nations, and the reports from Pakistan show what fate awaits the non muslims if they even look at a muslim wrong.
> 
> I have studied the laws of islam and know what they say, just as I have studied the atrocities and have shown the facts to you and still you deny their very existence
Click to expand...


Poor Phoney You are a only trouble and nothing else.

If this is the case then why Christian and Muslim in the Holy Land  stand united against Jews invasion and jew's killing and fighting together.


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> TUESDAY, NOV 10, 2015 03:16 PM EST
> 
> *“Occupation is root cause of violence”: Jewish-Americans protest at Israel’s Western Wall, call for boycott*
> 
> 
> *Jewish-American activists with the peace organization CODEPINK protested at Israel’s Western Wall (also known as the Kotel or Wailing Wall) on Tuesday morning. They unfurled a banner that read “American Jews support BDS,” referring to Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions, a peaceful global human rights movement called for by Palestinian civil society that seeks to use nonviolent economic means to pressure the Israeli government to end its illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories, grant equal rights to Palestinian citizens, and allow Palestinians who were violently expelled from their ancestral lands to return — as is required by international law.*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *After five minutes, plain-clothed Israeli authorities confiscated their banner and told them to leave. The activists, Ariel Gold and Ariel Vegosen, were part of a week-long CODEPINK trip to Israel-Palestine, where they witnessed firsthand what life is like for Palestinians living under military occupation.*
> 
> *CODEPINK said that, during its trip, “along with helping Palestinian farmers with their olive harvest, the group witnessed Israel’s apartheid system of different roads, services, and laws for different people. They experienced major restrictions on Palestinian freedom of movement, the massive growth of illegal Jewish-only settlements on Palestinian land, and numerous human rights abuses against Palestinians.”*
> 
> *“At this moment of escalated violence in Palestine and Israel, we are here at the Kotel to pray for an end to the occupation, the root cause of the violence,” Gold and Vergosen explained. “As American Jews we take a stand in support of peace and justice for all people.”*
> 
> *A wave of unrest has recently swept Israel-Palestine. According to the Palestinian Health Ministry, in just over a month, from Oct. 1 to Nov. 8, more than 3,000 Palestinians were injured by Israeli soldiers and/or settlers. 79 Palestinians were killed, including 17 children and four women, along with an Eritrean refugee, who was lynched by an Israeli mob after being confused for a Palestinian militant. In the same time period, eight Israelis were killed.*
> 
> *Addressing the bloodshed, Gold and Vergosen stated in a CODEPINK statement “We know that the root cause of the violence is Israel’s occupation, dispossession, and violence against the Palestinian people and that America’s financial and political support is instrumental in allowing this to continue.”*
> 
> 
> 
> Scouring the web, it's possible to find any opinion you want - in your case, cutting and pasting the opinions of others.
> 
> The historical facts are that Islamist ideology is uncompromisingly hostile to competing religions, particularly Judaism; the concept of wagf, as explicitly delineated in the Hamas Charter will not allow for anything but the destruction of Israel, and, muhammedan intransigence as a result of islamo- fascism will be a continued source of denial for any islamo-middle East peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look Muslim never fight against jew in recent past and look jew killing Muslim badly like jew are alien.
> 
> And look same time Muslim and Christian fought for holy land for long time and they learned that they can live together and they proved to live for 900 years until jew plot the peace and turn holy land in mess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is right because the muslims would not allow them to have any weapons, any Jew or Christian suspected of having a weapon was murdered on the spot. All written down in the Islamic histories and chronicles
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How cruel you are, dirty phoney. Can
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> TUESDAY, NOV 10, 2015 03:16 PM EST
> 
> *“Occupation is root cause of violence”: Jewish-Americans protest at Israel’s Western Wall, call for boycott*
> 
> 
> *Jewish-American activists with the peace organization CODEPINK protested at Israel’s Western Wall (also known as the Kotel or Wailing Wall) on Tuesday morning. They unfurled a banner that read “American Jews support BDS,” referring to Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions, a peaceful global human rights movement called for by Palestinian civil society that seeks to use nonviolent economic means to pressure the Israeli government to end its illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories, grant equal rights to Palestinian citizens, and allow Palestinians who were violently expelled from their ancestral lands to return — as is required by international law.*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *After five minutes, plain-clothed Israeli authorities confiscated their banner and told them to leave. The activists, Ariel Gold and Ariel Vegosen, were part of a week-long CODEPINK trip to Israel-Palestine, where they witnessed firsthand what life is like for Palestinians living under military occupation.*
> 
> *CODEPINK said that, during its trip, “along with helping Palestinian farmers with their olive harvest, the group witnessed Israel’s apartheid system of different roads, services, and laws for different people. They experienced major restrictions on Palestinian freedom of movement, the massive growth of illegal Jewish-only settlements on Palestinian land, and numerous human rights abuses against Palestinians.”*
> 
> *“At this moment of escalated violence in Palestine and Israel, we are here at the Kotel to pray for an end to the occupation, the root cause of the violence,” Gold and Vergosen explained. “As American Jews we take a stand in support of peace and justice for all people.”*
> 
> *A wave of unrest has recently swept Israel-Palestine. According to the Palestinian Health Ministry, in just over a month, from Oct. 1 to Nov. 8, more than 3,000 Palestinians were injured by Israeli soldiers and/or settlers. 79 Palestinians were killed, including 17 children and four women, along with an Eritrean refugee, who was lynched by an Israeli mob after being confused for a Palestinian militant. In the same time period, eight Israelis were killed.*
> 
> *Addressing the bloodshed, Gold and Vergosen stated in a CODEPINK statement “We know that the root cause of the violence is Israel’s occupation, dispossession, and violence against the Palestinian people and that America’s financial and political support is instrumental in allowing this to continue.”*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Scouring the web, it's possible to find any opinion you want - in your case, cutting and pasting the opinions of others.
> 
> The historical facts are that Islamist ideology is uncompromisingly hostile to competing religions, particularly Judaism; the concept of wagf, as explicitly delineated in the Hamas Charter will not allow for anything but the destruction of Israel, and, muhammedan intransigence as a result of islamo- fascism will be a continued source of denial for any islamo-middle East peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look Muslim never fight against jew in recent past and look jew killing Muslim badly like jew are alien.
> 
> And look same time Muslim and Christian fought for holy land for long time and they learned that they can live together and they proved to live for 900 years until jew plot the peace and turn holy land in mess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is right because the muslims would not allow them to have any weapons, any Jew or Christian suspected of having a weapon was murdered on the spot. All written down in the Islamic histories and chronicles
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How cruel you are dirty phoney. United holy land for 900 years was perfect example for cross religion brotherhood where Christian, Muslim and jews, were living happily.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is you LIE to cover up the mass murders, atrocities and violence from muslims that has not changed since mo'mad wiped out the Jews from Medina. It is not cruel to recite the truth as written down by muslims from that era, how the Jews and Christians were not allowed to wear white, had to walk in the gutter, could not ride anything but an ass, could not repair their temples, churches and synagogues. Had to wear clothing that set them aside as a Jew or Christian, could not own a weapon, could not defend themselves in time of war, had to pay jizya and suffer beatings while doing so. These are still alive and well in many Islamic nations, and the reports from Pakistan show what fate awaits the non muslims if they even look at a muslim wrong.
> 
> I have studied the laws of islam and know what they say, just as I have studied the atrocities and have shown the facts to you and still you deny their very existence
Click to expand...


Poor Phoney You are a only trouble and nothing else.

If this is the case then why Christian and Muslim in the Holy Land  stand united against Jews invasion and jew's killing and fighting together.


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Scouring the web, it's possible to find any opinion you want - in your case, cutting and pasting the opinions of others.
> 
> The historical facts are that Islamist ideology is uncompromisingly hostile to competing religions, particularly Judaism; the concept of wagf, as explicitly delineated in the Hamas Charter will not allow for anything but the destruction of Israel, and, muhammedan intransigence as a result of islamo- fascism will be a continued source of denial for any islamo-middle East peace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look Muslim never fight against jew in recent past and look jew killing Muslim badly like jew are alien.
> 
> And look same time Muslim and Christian fought for holy land for long time and they learned that they can live together and they proved to live for 900 years until jew plot the peace and turn holy land in mess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is right because the muslims would not allow them to have any weapons, any Jew or Christian suspected of having a weapon was murdered on the spot. All written down in the Islamic histories and chronicles
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How cruel you are, dirty phoney. Can
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Scouring the web, it's possible to find any opinion you want - in your case, cutting and pasting the opinions of others.
> 
> The historical facts are that Islamist ideology is uncompromisingly hostile to competing religions, particularly Judaism; the concept of wagf, as explicitly delineated in the Hamas Charter will not allow for anything but the destruction of Israel, and, muhammedan intransigence as a result of islamo- fascism will be a continued source of denial for any islamo-middle East peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look Muslim never fight against jew in recent past and look jew killing Muslim badly like jew are alien.
> 
> And look same time Muslim and Christian fought for holy land for long time and they learned that they can live together and they proved to live for 900 years until jew plot the peace and turn holy land in mess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is right because the muslims would not allow them to have any weapons, any Jew or Christian suspected of having a weapon was murdered on the spot. All written down in the Islamic histories and chronicles
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How cruel you are dirty phoney. United holy land for 900 years was perfect example for cross religion brotherhood where Christian, Muslim and jews, were living happily.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is you LIE to cover up the mass murders, atrocities and violence from muslims that has not changed since mo'mad wiped out the Jews from Medina. It is not cruel to recite the truth as written down by muslims from that era, how the Jews and Christians were not allowed to wear white, had to walk in the gutter, could not ride anything but an ass, could not repair their temples, churches and synagogues. Had to wear clothing that set them aside as a Jew or Christian, could not own a weapon, could not defend themselves in time of war, had to pay jizya and suffer beatings while doing so. These are still alive and well in many Islamic nations, and the reports from Pakistan show what fate awaits the non muslims if they even look at a muslim wrong.
> 
> I have studied the laws of islam and know what they say, just as I have studied the atrocities and have shown the facts to you and still you deny their very existence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Poor Phoney You are a only trouble and nothing else.
> 
> If this is the case then why Christian and Muslim in the Holy Land  stand united against Jews invasion and jew's killing and fighting together.
Click to expand...






 How about a link that is unbiased and non partisan proving this. Means no islamonazi sourced lies. While you are at it explain why 90% of Christians in Palestine have been ethnically cleansed and their numbers have increased in Israel ?


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look Muslim never fight against jew in recent past and look jew killing Muslim badly like jew are alien.
> 
> And look same time Muslim and Christian fought for holy land for long time and they learned that they can live together and they proved to live for 900 years until jew plot the peace and turn holy land in mess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is right because the muslims would not allow them to have any weapons, any Jew or Christian suspected of having a weapon was murdered on the spot. All written down in the Islamic histories and chronicles
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How cruel you are, dirty phoney. Can
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look Muslim never fight against jew in recent past and look jew killing Muslim badly like jew are alien.
> 
> And look same time Muslim and Christian fought for holy land for long time and they learned that they can live together and they proved to live for 900 years until jew plot the peace and turn holy land in mess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is right because the muslims would not allow them to have any weapons, any Jew or Christian suspected of having a weapon was murdered on the spot. All written down in the Islamic histories and chronicles
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How cruel you are dirty phoney. United holy land for 900 years was perfect example for cross religion brotherhood where Christian, Muslim and jews, were living happily.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is you LIE to cover up the mass murders, atrocities and violence from muslims that has not changed since mo'mad wiped out the Jews from Medina. It is not cruel to recite the truth as written down by muslims from that era, how the Jews and Christians were not allowed to wear white, had to walk in the gutter, could not ride anything but an ass, could not repair their temples, churches and synagogues. Had to wear clothing that set them aside as a Jew or Christian, could not own a weapon, could not defend themselves in time of war, had to pay jizya and suffer beatings while doing so. These are still alive and well in many Islamic nations, and the reports from Pakistan show what fate awaits the non muslims if they even look at a muslim wrong.
> 
> I have studied the laws of islam and know what they say, just as I have studied the atrocities and have shown the facts to you and still you deny their very existence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Poor Phoney You are a only trouble and nothing else.
> 
> If this is the case then why Christian and Muslim in the Holy Land  stand united against Jews invasion and jew's killing and fighting together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about a link that is unbiased and non partisan proving this. Means no islamonazi sourced lies. While you are at it explain why 90% of Christians in Palestine have been ethnically cleansed and their numbers have increased in Israel ?
Click to expand...

Phoney you are negative person. Please accept the facts first then proceed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look Muslim never fight against jew in recent past and look jew killing Muslim badly like jew are alien.
> 
> And look same time Muslim and Christian fought for holy land for long time and they learned that they can live together and they proved to live for 900 years until jew plot the peace and turn holy land in mess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is right because the muslims would not allow them to have any weapons, any Jew or Christian suspected of having a weapon was murdered on the spot. All written down in the Islamic histories and chronicles
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How cruel you are, dirty phoney. Can
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look Muslim never fight against jew in recent past and look jew killing Muslim badly like jew are alien.
> 
> And look same time Muslim and Christian fought for holy land for long time and they learned that they can live together and they proved to live for 900 years until jew plot the peace and turn holy land in mess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is right because the muslims would not allow them to have any weapons, any Jew or Christian suspected of having a weapon was murdered on the spot. All written down in the Islamic histories and chronicles
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How cruel you are dirty phoney. United holy land for 900 years was perfect example for cross religion brotherhood where Christian, Muslim and jews, were living happily.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is you LIE to cover up the mass murders, atrocities and violence from muslims that has not changed since mo'mad wiped out the Jews from Medina. It is not cruel to recite the truth as written down by muslims from that era, how the Jews and Christians were not allowed to wear white, had to walk in the gutter, could not ride anything but an ass, could not repair their temples, churches and synagogues. Had to wear clothing that set them aside as a Jew or Christian, could not own a weapon, could not defend themselves in time of war, had to pay jizya and suffer beatings while doing so. These are still alive and well in many Islamic nations, and the reports from Pakistan show what fate awaits the non muslims if they even look at a muslim wrong.
> 
> I have studied the laws of islam and know what they say, just as I have studied the atrocities and have shown the facts to you and still you deny their very existence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Poor Phoney You are a only trouble and nothing else.
> 
> If this is the case then why Christian and Muslim in the Holy Land  stand united against Jews invasion and jew's killing and fighting together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about a link that is unbiased and non partisan proving this. Means no islamonazi sourced lies. While you are at it explain why 90% of Christians in Palestine have been ethnically cleansed and their numbers have increased in Israel ?
Click to expand...

*Palestinian Christian & Muslim Relations in the West Bank and Gaza *

**


----------



## American_Jihad

*Who Is Being Delusional?*
* Why the Palestinians are not interested in either peace or statehood. *
November 20, 2015
Caroline Glick






_Originally published by the __Jerusalem Post__. _

On Tuesday night, Channel 10 broadcast an interview with PLO chief and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas in which Abbas admitted publicly for the first time that he rejected the peace plan then prime minister Ehud Olmert offered him in 2008.

Olmert’s plan called for Israel to withdraw from the entire Old City of Jerusalem, including the Western Wall, and from 93.7 percent of Judea and Samaria. Olmert also offered sovereign Israeli territory to the Palestinians to compensate for the areas Israel would retain in Judea and Samaria.

Abbas said his rejection was unequivocal. “I didn’t agree. I rejected it out of hand.”

For years, the story of Abbas’s rejection of Olmert’s 2008 offer has been underplayed. Many commentators have insisted Abbas didn’t really reject it, but just failed to respond.

But now the truth is clear. Abbas is not interested either in peace or in Palestinian statehood.

Abbas’s many apologists in the Israeli Left insist that he didn’t reject the plan on its merits. Rather, they argue, Abbas rejected Olmert’s offer because, by the time Olmert made it, he was involved in criminal investigations that forced him to resign from office eight months later.

Hogwash, says former AP reporter Mark Lavie.

Following the interview’s broadcast, Lavie countered that if Abbas were truly interested in establishing an independent Palestinian state, he wouldn’t have cared about the political fortunes of the Israeli prime minister. He would have taken the offer and run, knowing that, as Olmert said, the likelihood that he’d get a similar offer in the next 50 years was nonexistent.

The most notable reaction to Abbas’s admission was the reaction that never came. The Israeli Left had no reaction to his interview.

Abbas is the hero of the Left.

...

We need to take Netanyahu’s coy responses to questions about unilateralism as an invitation to begin a serious public discussion of the option.

The public wants this discussion and we need this discussion.

As for how the peace camp will respond, well, there are worse things than having reactionaries call you “delusional.”

Who Is Being Delusional?


----------



## Rehmani

American_Jihad said:


> *Who Is Being Delusional?*
> * Why the Palestinians are not interested in either peace or statehood. *
> November 20, 2015
> Caroline Glick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally published by the __Jerusalem Post__. _
> 
> On Tuesday night, Channel 10 broadcast an interview with PLO chief and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas in which Abbas admitted publicly for the first time that he rejected the peace plan then prime minister Ehud Olmert offered him in 2008.
> 
> Olmert’s plan called for Israel to withdraw from the entire Old City of Jerusalem, including the Western Wall, and from 93.7 percent of Judea and Samaria. Olmert also offered sovereign Israeli territory to the Palestinians to compensate for the areas Israel would retain in Judea and Samaria.
> 
> Abbas said his rejection was unequivocal. “I didn’t agree. I rejected it out of hand.”
> 
> For years, the story of Abbas’s rejection of Olmert’s 2008 offer has been underplayed. Many commentators have insisted Abbas didn’t really reject it, but just failed to respond.
> 
> But now the truth is clear. Abbas is not interested either in peace or in Palestinian statehood.
> 
> Abbas’s many apologists in the Israeli Left insist that he didn’t reject the plan on its merits. Rather, they argue, Abbas rejected Olmert’s offer because, by the time Olmert made it, he was involved in criminal investigations that forced him to resign from office eight months later.
> 
> Hogwash, says former AP reporter Mark Lavie.
> 
> Following the interview’s broadcast, Lavie countered that if Abbas were truly interested in establishing an independent Palestinian state, he wouldn’t have cared about the political fortunes of the Israeli prime minister. He would have taken the offer and run, knowing that, as Olmert said, the likelihood that he’d get a similar offer in the next 50 years was nonexistent.
> 
> The most notable reaction to Abbas’s admission was the reaction that never came. The Israeli Left had no reaction to his interview.
> 
> Abbas is the hero of the Left.
> 
> ...
> 
> We need to take Netanyahu’s coy responses to questions about unilateralism as an invitation to begin a serious public discussion of the option.
> 
> The public wants this discussion and we need this discussion.
> 
> As for how the peace camp will respond, well, there are worse things than having reactionaries call you “delusional.”
> 
> Who Is Being Delusional?


Being a member of a country, which is under invasion is hard to trust on invader and specially the prime minister has legal issue can not be accepted and definitely israeli didn't want to implement Olmer's plan either. This is the reason they removed him immediately. Israel base on tricks. Its creation was trick and it's existence followed by these kinds of tricks too.


----------



## docmauser1

Rehmani said:


> Being a member of a country, which is under invasion is ...


Say no mo, say no mo ...


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is right because the muslims would not allow them to have any weapons, any Jew or Christian suspected of having a weapon was murdered on the spot. All written down in the Islamic histories and chronicles
> 
> 
> 
> How cruel you are, dirty phoney. Can
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is right because the muslims would not allow them to have any weapons, any Jew or Christian suspected of having a weapon was murdered on the spot. All written down in the Islamic histories and chronicles
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How cruel you are dirty phoney. United holy land for 900 years was perfect example for cross religion brotherhood where Christian, Muslim and jews, were living happily.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is you LIE to cover up the mass murders, atrocities and violence from muslims that has not changed since mo'mad wiped out the Jews from Medina. It is not cruel to recite the truth as written down by muslims from that era, how the Jews and Christians were not allowed to wear white, had to walk in the gutter, could not ride anything but an ass, could not repair their temples, churches and synagogues. Had to wear clothing that set them aside as a Jew or Christian, could not own a weapon, could not defend themselves in time of war, had to pay jizya and suffer beatings while doing so. These are still alive and well in many Islamic nations, and the reports from Pakistan show what fate awaits the non muslims if they even look at a muslim wrong.
> 
> I have studied the laws of islam and know what they say, just as I have studied the atrocities and have shown the facts to you and still you deny their very existence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Poor Phoney You are a only trouble and nothing else.
> 
> If this is the case then why Christian and Muslim in the Holy Land  stand united against Jews invasion and jew's killing and fighting together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about a link that is unbiased and non partisan proving this. Means no islamonazi sourced lies. While you are at it explain why 90% of Christians in Palestine have been ethnically cleansed and their numbers have increased in Israel ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Phoney you are negative person. Please accept the facts first then proceed.
Click to expand...





 What facts as all I see is propaganda and lies with no supporting evidence, unlike the massacres of Jews by muslims over the last 1400 years supported by muslim records.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is right because the muslims would not allow them to have any weapons, any Jew or Christian suspected of having a weapon was murdered on the spot. All written down in the Islamic histories and chronicles
> 
> 
> 
> How cruel you are, dirty phoney. Can
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is right because the muslims would not allow them to have any weapons, any Jew or Christian suspected of having a weapon was murdered on the spot. All written down in the Islamic histories and chronicles
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How cruel you are dirty phoney. United holy land for 900 years was perfect example for cross religion brotherhood where Christian, Muslim and jews, were living happily.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is you LIE to cover up the mass murders, atrocities and violence from muslims that has not changed since mo'mad wiped out the Jews from Medina. It is not cruel to recite the truth as written down by muslims from that era, how the Jews and Christians were not allowed to wear white, had to walk in the gutter, could not ride anything but an ass, could not repair their temples, churches and synagogues. Had to wear clothing that set them aside as a Jew or Christian, could not own a weapon, could not defend themselves in time of war, had to pay jizya and suffer beatings while doing so. These are still alive and well in many Islamic nations, and the reports from Pakistan show what fate awaits the non muslims if they even look at a muslim wrong.
> 
> I have studied the laws of islam and know what they say, just as I have studied the atrocities and have shown the facts to you and still you deny their very existence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Poor Phoney You are a only trouble and nothing else.
> 
> If this is the case then why Christian and Muslim in the Holy Land  stand united against Jews invasion and jew's killing and fighting together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about a link that is unbiased and non partisan proving this. Means no islamonazi sourced lies. While you are at it explain why 90% of Christians in Palestine have been ethnically cleansed and their numbers have increased in Israel ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Palestinian Christian & Muslim Relations in the West Bank and Gaza *
> 
> **
Click to expand...






 Want to try again and this time don't use an Islamic source for your evidence


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Who Is Being Delusional?*
> * Why the Palestinians are not interested in either peace or statehood. *
> November 20, 2015
> Caroline Glick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally published by the __Jerusalem Post__. _
> 
> On Tuesday night, Channel 10 broadcast an interview with PLO chief and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas in which Abbas admitted publicly for the first time that he rejected the peace plan then prime minister Ehud Olmert offered him in 2008.
> 
> Olmert’s plan called for Israel to withdraw from the entire Old City of Jerusalem, including the Western Wall, and from 93.7 percent of Judea and Samaria. Olmert also offered sovereign Israeli territory to the Palestinians to compensate for the areas Israel would retain in Judea and Samaria.
> 
> Abbas said his rejection was unequivocal. “I didn’t agree. I rejected it out of hand.”
> 
> For years, the story of Abbas’s rejection of Olmert’s 2008 offer has been underplayed. Many commentators have insisted Abbas didn’t really reject it, but just failed to respond.
> 
> But now the truth is clear. Abbas is not interested either in peace or in Palestinian statehood.
> 
> Abbas’s many apologists in the Israeli Left insist that he didn’t reject the plan on its merits. Rather, they argue, Abbas rejected Olmert’s offer because, by the time Olmert made it, he was involved in criminal investigations that forced him to resign from office eight months later.
> 
> Hogwash, says former AP reporter Mark Lavie.
> 
> Following the interview’s broadcast, Lavie countered that if Abbas were truly interested in establishing an independent Palestinian state, he wouldn’t have cared about the political fortunes of the Israeli prime minister. He would have taken the offer and run, knowing that, as Olmert said, the likelihood that he’d get a similar offer in the next 50 years was nonexistent.
> 
> The most notable reaction to Abbas’s admission was the reaction that never came. The Israeli Left had no reaction to his interview.
> 
> Abbas is the hero of the Left.
> 
> ...
> 
> We need to take Netanyahu’s coy responses to questions about unilateralism as an invitation to begin a serious public discussion of the option.
> 
> The public wants this discussion and we need this discussion.
> 
> As for how the peace camp will respond, well, there are worse things than having reactionaries call you “delusional.”
> 
> Who Is Being Delusional?
> 
> 
> 
> Being a member of a country, which is under invasion is hard to trust on invader and specially the prime minister has legal issue can not be accepted and definitely israeli didn't want to implement Olmer's plan either. This is the reason they removed him immediately. Israel base on tricks. Its creation was trick and it's existence followed by these kinds of tricks too.
Click to expand...






 The only proven invaders are the muslims as they invaded in 1875 on the promise of work, good wages and Jewish land. A pity the Jews did not employ them and formed defence groups to protect their lands. And the only way they could have increased by natural means would have been for 12 year old girls to have triplets every 9 months for the next 35 years.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> How cruel you are, dirty phoney. Can
> How cruel you are dirty phoney. United holy land for 900 years was perfect example for cross religion brotherhood where Christian, Muslim and jews, were living happily.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is you LIE to cover up the mass murders, atrocities and violence from muslims that has not changed since mo'mad wiped out the Jews from Medina. It is not cruel to recite the truth as written down by muslims from that era, how the Jews and Christians were not allowed to wear white, had to walk in the gutter, could not ride anything but an ass, could not repair their temples, churches and synagogues. Had to wear clothing that set them aside as a Jew or Christian, could not own a weapon, could not defend themselves in time of war, had to pay jizya and suffer beatings while doing so. These are still alive and well in many Islamic nations, and the reports from Pakistan show what fate awaits the non muslims if they even look at a muslim wrong.
> 
> I have studied the laws of islam and know what they say, just as I have studied the atrocities and have shown the facts to you and still you deny their very existence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Poor Phoney You are a only trouble and nothing else.
> 
> If this is the case then why Christian and Muslim in the Holy Land  stand united against Jews invasion and jew's killing and fighting together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about a link that is unbiased and non partisan proving this. Means no islamonazi sourced lies. While you are at it explain why 90% of Christians in Palestine have been ethnically cleansed and their numbers have increased in Israel ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Palestinian Christian & Muslim Relations in the West Bank and Gaza *
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Want to try again and this time don't use an Islamic source for your evidence
Click to expand...

Churches for Middle East Peace is Islamic?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is you LIE to cover up the mass murders, atrocities and violence from muslims that has not changed since mo'mad wiped out the Jews from Medina. It is not cruel to recite the truth as written down by muslims from that era, how the Jews and Christians were not allowed to wear white, had to walk in the gutter, could not ride anything but an ass, could not repair their temples, churches and synagogues. Had to wear clothing that set them aside as a Jew or Christian, could not own a weapon, could not defend themselves in time of war, had to pay jizya and suffer beatings while doing so. These are still alive and well in many Islamic nations, and the reports from Pakistan show what fate awaits the non muslims if they even look at a muslim wrong.
> 
> I have studied the laws of islam and know what they say, just as I have studied the atrocities and have shown the facts to you and still you deny their very existence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poor Phoney You are a only trouble and nothing else.
> 
> If this is the case then why Christian and Muslim in the Holy Land  stand united against Jews invasion and jew's killing and fighting together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about a link that is unbiased and non partisan proving this. Means no islamonazi sourced lies. While you are at it explain why 90% of Christians in Palestine have been ethnically cleansed and their numbers have increased in Israel ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Palestinian Christian & Muslim Relations in the West Bank and Gaza *
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Want to try again and this time don't use an Islamic source for your evidence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Churches for Middle East Peace is Islamic?
Click to expand...






 The source is Islamic, or don't you understand what the source is ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Poor Phoney You are a only trouble and nothing else.
> 
> If this is the case then why Christian and Muslim in the Holy Land  stand united against Jews invasion and jew's killing and fighting together.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about a link that is unbiased and non partisan proving this. Means no islamonazi sourced lies. While you are at it explain why 90% of Christians in Palestine have been ethnically cleansed and their numbers have increased in Israel ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Palestinian Christian & Muslim Relations in the West Bank and Gaza *
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Want to try again and this time don't use an Islamic source for your evidence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Churches for Middle East Peace is Islamic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The source is Islamic, or don't you understand what the source is ?
Click to expand...

It was a Churches for Middle East Peace conference. Where do you get Islamic?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about a link that is unbiased and non partisan proving this. Means no islamonazi sourced lies. While you are at it explain why 90% of Christians in Palestine have been ethnically cleansed and their numbers have increased in Israel ?
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian Christian & Muslim Relations in the West Bank and Gaza *
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Want to try again and this time don't use an Islamic source for your evidence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Churches for Middle East Peace is Islamic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The source is Islamic, or don't you understand what the source is ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Churches for Middle East Peace conference. Where do you get Islamic?
Click to expand...






 From the actual source of the report, or don't you yet know what is meant by the source ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian Christian & Muslim Relations in the West Bank and Gaza *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Want to try again and this time don't use an Islamic source for your evidence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Churches for Middle East Peace is Islamic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The source is Islamic, or don't you understand what the source is ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Churches for Middle East Peace conference. Where do you get Islamic?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the actual source of the report, or don't you yet know what is meant by the source ?
Click to expand...

OK, what is the source/ You seem to think it is different that the one specified.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Want to try again and this time don't use an Islamic source for your evidence
> 
> 
> 
> Churches for Middle East Peace is Islamic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The source is Islamic, or don't you understand what the source is ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Churches for Middle East Peace conference. Where do you get Islamic?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the actual source of the report, or don't you yet know what is meant by the source ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, what is the source/ You seem to think it is different that the one specified.
Click to expand...





 It is the source is a muslim


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Want to try again and this time don't use an Islamic source for your evidence
> 
> 
> 
> Churches for Middle East Peace is Islamic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The source is Islamic, or don't you understand what the source is ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Churches for Middle East Peace conference. Where do you get Islamic?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the actual source of the report, or don't you yet know what is meant by the source ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, what is the source/ You seem to think it is different that the one specified.
Click to expand...





 The source is


 Aziz Abu-Sarah (Co-Executive Director, Center for World Religions, Diplomacy and Conflict Resolution, George Mason University) and Philip Farah (Founding Member, Washington Interfaith Alliance for Middle East Peace), themselves Palestinians, 


 So the source is Islamic an


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Who Is Being Delusional?*
> * Why the Palestinians are not interested in either peace or statehood. *
> November 20, 2015
> Caroline Glick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally published by the __Jerusalem Post__. _
> 
> On Tuesday night, Channel 10 broadcast an interview with PLO chief and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas in which Abbas admitted publicly for the first time that he rejected the peace plan then prime minister Ehud Olmert offered him in 2008.
> 
> Olmert’s plan called for Israel to withdraw from the entire Old City of Jerusalem, including the Western Wall, and from 93.7 percent of Judea and Samaria. Olmert also offered sovereign Israeli territory to the Palestinians to compensate for the areas Israel would retain in Judea and Samaria.
> 
> Abbas said his rejection was unequivocal. “I didn’t agree. I rejected it out of hand.”
> 
> For years, the story of Abbas’s rejection of Olmert’s 2008 offer has been underplayed. Many commentators have insisted Abbas didn’t really reject it, but just failed to respond.
> 
> But now the truth is clear. Abbas is not interested either in peace or in Palestinian statehood.
> 
> Abbas’s many apologists in the Israeli Left insist that he didn’t reject the plan on its merits. Rather, they argue, Abbas rejected Olmert’s offer because, by the time Olmert made it, he was involved in criminal investigations that forced him to resign from office eight months later.
> 
> Hogwash, says former AP reporter Mark Lavie.
> 
> Following the interview’s broadcast, Lavie countered that if Abbas were truly interested in establishing an independent Palestinian state, he wouldn’t have cared about the political fortunes of the Israeli prime minister. He would have taken the offer and run, knowing that, as Olmert said, the likelihood that he’d get a similar offer in the next 50 years was nonexistent.
> 
> The most notable reaction to Abbas’s admission was the reaction that never came. The Israeli Left had no reaction to his interview.
> 
> Abbas is the hero of the Left.
> 
> ...
> 
> We need to take Netanyahu’s coy responses to questions about unilateralism as an invitation to begin a serious public discussion of the option.
> 
> The public wants this discussion and we need this discussion.
> 
> As for how the peace camp will respond, well, there are worse things than having reactionaries call you “delusional.”
> 
> Who Is Being Delusional?
> 
> 
> 
> Being a member of a country, which is under invasion is hard to trust on invader and specially the prime minister has legal issue can not be accepted and definitely israeli didn't want to implement Olmer's plan either. This is the reason they removed him immediately. Israel base on tricks. Its creation was trick and it's existence followed by these kinds of tricks too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only proven invaders are the muslims as they invaded in 1875 on the promise of work, good wages and Jewish land. A pity the Jews did not employ them and formed defence groups to protect their lands. And the only way they could have increased by natural means would have been for 12 year old girls to have triplets every 9 months for the next 35 years.
Click to expand...

phoney you are mess but nothing. Can you tell me that how much time do you spend and how many forum do you cover here?


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> How cruel you are, dirty phoney. Can
> How cruel you are dirty phoney. United holy land for 900 years was perfect example for cross religion brotherhood where Christian, Muslim and jews, were living happily.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is you LIE to cover up the mass murders, atrocities and violence from muslims that has not changed since mo'mad wiped out the Jews from Medina. It is not cruel to recite the truth as written down by muslims from that era, how the Jews and Christians were not allowed to wear white, had to walk in the gutter, could not ride anything but an ass, could not repair their temples, churches and synagogues. Had to wear clothing that set them aside as a Jew or Christian, could not own a weapon, could not defend themselves in time of war, had to pay jizya and suffer beatings while doing so. These are still alive and well in many Islamic nations, and the reports from Pakistan show what fate awaits the non muslims if they even look at a muslim wrong.
> 
> I have studied the laws of islam and know what they say, just as I have studied the atrocities and have shown the facts to you and still you deny their very existence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Poor Phoney You are a only trouble and nothing else.
> 
> If this is the case then why Christian and Muslim in the Holy Land  stand united against Jews invasion and jew's killing and fighting together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about a link that is unbiased and non partisan proving this. Means no islamonazi sourced lies. While you are at it explain why 90% of Christians in Palestine have been ethnically cleansed and their numbers have increased in Israel ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Phoney you are negative person. Please accept the facts first then proceed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What facts as all I see is propaganda and lies with no supporting evidence, unlike the massacres of Jews by muslims over the last 1400 years supported by muslim records.
Click to expand...

well you are the propagandist not me lire.


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Who Is Being Delusional?*
> * Why the Palestinians are not interested in either peace or statehood. *
> November 20, 2015
> Caroline Glick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally published by the __Jerusalem Post__. _
> 
> On Tuesday night, Channel 10 broadcast an interview with PLO chief and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas in which Abbas admitted publicly for the first time that he rejected the peace plan then prime minister Ehud Olmert offered him in 2008.
> 
> Olmert’s plan called for Israel to withdraw from the entire Old City of Jerusalem, including the Western Wall, and from 93.7 percent of Judea and Samaria. Olmert also offered sovereign Israeli territory to the Palestinians to compensate for the areas Israel would retain in Judea and Samaria.
> 
> Abbas said his rejection was unequivocal. “I didn’t agree. I rejected it out of hand.”
> 
> For years, the story of Abbas’s rejection of Olmert’s 2008 offer has been underplayed. Many commentators have insisted Abbas didn’t really reject it, but just failed to respond.
> 
> But now the truth is clear. Abbas is not interested either in peace or in Palestinian statehood.
> 
> Abbas’s many apologists in the Israeli Left insist that he didn’t reject the plan on its merits. Rather, they argue, Abbas rejected Olmert’s offer because, by the time Olmert made it, he was involved in criminal investigations that forced him to resign from office eight months later.
> 
> Hogwash, says former AP reporter Mark Lavie.
> 
> Following the interview’s broadcast, Lavie countered that if Abbas were truly interested in establishing an independent Palestinian state, he wouldn’t have cared about the political fortunes of the Israeli prime minister. He would have taken the offer and run, knowing that, as Olmert said, the likelihood that he’d get a similar offer in the next 50 years was nonexistent.
> 
> The most notable reaction to Abbas’s admission was the reaction that never came. The Israeli Left had no reaction to his interview.
> 
> Abbas is the hero of the Left.
> 
> ...
> 
> We need to take Netanyahu’s coy responses to questions about unilateralism as an invitation to begin a serious public discussion of the option.
> 
> The public wants this discussion and we need this discussion.
> 
> As for how the peace camp will respond, well, there are worse things than having reactionaries call you “delusional.”
> 
> Who Is Being Delusional?
> 
> 
> 
> Being a member of a country, which is under invasion is hard to trust on invader and specially the prime minister has legal issue can not be accepted and definitely israeli didn't want to implement Olmer's plan either. This is the reason they removed him immediately. Israel base on tricks. Its creation was trick and it's existence followed by these kinds of tricks too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only proven invaders are the muslims as they invaded in 1875 on the promise of work, good wages and Jewish land. A pity the Jews did not employ them and formed defence groups to protect their lands. And the only way they could have increased by natural means would have been for 12 year old girls to have triplets every 9 months for the next 35 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> phoney you are mess but nothing. Can you tell me that how much time do you spend and how many forum do you cover here?
Click to expand...






3 this one, Europe and M.E. forums. The rest of my time is spent living life and socialising with friends. I research many subjects one being islam and its impact on the world. This research shows that close on 70 million innocents have been murdered by islam in the name of the false prophet since the end of WW2. Care to explain why this is ?


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is you LIE to cover up the mass murders, atrocities and violence from muslims that has not changed since mo'mad wiped out the Jews from Medina. It is not cruel to recite the truth as written down by muslims from that era, how the Jews and Christians were not allowed to wear white, had to walk in the gutter, could not ride anything but an ass, could not repair their temples, churches and synagogues. Had to wear clothing that set them aside as a Jew or Christian, could not own a weapon, could not defend themselves in time of war, had to pay jizya and suffer beatings while doing so. These are still alive and well in many Islamic nations, and the reports from Pakistan show what fate awaits the non muslims if they even look at a muslim wrong.
> 
> I have studied the laws of islam and know what they say, just as I have studied the atrocities and have shown the facts to you and still you deny their very existence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poor Phoney You are a only trouble and nothing else.
> 
> If this is the case then why Christian and Muslim in the Holy Land  stand united against Jews invasion and jew's killing and fighting together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about a link that is unbiased and non partisan proving this. Means no islamonazi sourced lies. While you are at it explain why 90% of Christians in Palestine have been ethnically cleansed and their numbers have increased in Israel ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Phoney you are negative person. Please accept the facts first then proceed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What facts as all I see is propaganda and lies with no supporting evidence, unlike the massacres of Jews by muslims over the last 1400 years supported by muslim records.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well you are the propagandist not me lire.
Click to expand...






 The truth as written down in the koran and hadiths is not propaganda, it is the reality you muslims try and ignore


----------



## Humanity

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Poor Phoney You are a only trouble and nothing else.
> 
> If this is the case then why Christian and Muslim in the Holy Land  stand united against Jews invasion and jew's killing and fighting together.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about a link that is unbiased and non partisan proving this. Means no islamonazi sourced lies. While you are at it explain why 90% of Christians in Palestine have been ethnically cleansed and their numbers have increased in Israel ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Phoney you are negative person. Please accept the facts first then proceed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What facts as all I see is propaganda and lies with no supporting evidence, unlike the massacres of Jews by muslims over the last 1400 years supported by muslim records.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well you are the propagandist not me lire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The truth as written down in the koran and hadiths is not propaganda, it is the reality you muslims try and ignore
Click to expand...


Read the bible to see how violent christians are...

A reality you christians try to ignore!


----------



## Hossfly

Humanity said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about a link that is unbiased and non partisan proving this. Means no islamonazi sourced lies. While you are at it explain why 90% of Christians in Palestine have been ethnically cleansed and their numbers have increased in Israel ?
> 
> 
> 
> Phoney you are negative person. Please accept the facts first then proceed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What facts as all I see is propaganda and lies with no supporting evidence, unlike the massacres of Jews by muslims over the last 1400 years supported by muslim records.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well you are the propagandist not me lire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The truth as written down in the koran and hadiths is not propaganda, it is the reality you muslims try and ignore
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read the bible to see how violent christians are...
> 
> A reality you christians try to ignore!
Click to expand...

The bible was written before there were Christians, Cuddles. Besides they have mellowed during the past 2000 years.


----------



## Humanity

Hossfly said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Phoney you are negative person. Please accept the facts first then proceed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What facts as all I see is propaganda and lies with no supporting evidence, unlike the massacres of Jews by muslims over the last 1400 years supported by muslim records.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well you are the propagandist not me lire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The truth as written down in the koran and hadiths is not propaganda, it is the reality you muslims try and ignore
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read the bible to see how violent christians are...
> 
> A reality you christians try to ignore!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The bible was written before there were Christians, Cuddles. Besides they have mellowed during the past 2000 years.
Click to expand...


Well, as far as I am aware Tex, the Old Testament was concocted some time before Christians, by Jews, and was pretty horrific in it's texts as far as 'terrorism' is concerned... 

Isn't the Old Testament based upon the Hebrew Bible and adopted by Jews? Hmmm

The New Testament is of Christian concoction...


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Humanity said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> What facts as all I see is propaganda and lies with no supporting evidence, unlike the massacres of Jews by muslims over the last 1400 years supported by muslim records.
> 
> 
> 
> well you are the propagandist not me lire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The truth as written down in the koran and hadiths is not propaganda, it is the reality you muslims try and ignore
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read the bible to see how violent christians are...
> 
> A reality you christians try to ignore!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The bible was written before there were Christians, Cuddles. Besides they have mellowed during the past 2000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, as far as I am aware Tex, the Old Testament was concocted some time before Christians, by Jews, and was pretty horrific in it's texts as far as 'terrorism' is concerned...
> 
> Isn't the Old Testament based upon the Hebrew Bible and adopted by Jews? Hmmm
> 
> The New Testament is of Christian concoction...
Click to expand...


The Old Testament isn't "based" on the Hebrew Bible.  Rather, it IS the Hebrew Bible.  The Hebrew Bible is called the Tanach by Jews and the Old Testament by Christians.


----------



## Hossfly

Humanity said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> What facts as all I see is propaganda and lies with no supporting evidence, unlike the massacres of Jews by muslims over the last 1400 years supported by muslim records.
> 
> 
> 
> well you are the propagandist not me lire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The truth as written down in the koran and hadiths is not propaganda, it is the reality you muslims try and ignore
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read the bible to see how violent christians are...
> 
> A reality you christians try to ignore!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The bible was written before there were Christians, Cuddles. Besides they have mellowed during the past 2000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, as far as I am aware Tex, the Old Testament was concocted some time before Christians, by Jews, and was pretty horrific in it's texts as far as 'terrorism' is concerned...
> 
> Isn't the Old Testament based upon the Hebrew Bible and adopted by Jews? Hmmm
> 
> The New Testament is of Christian concoction...
Click to expand...

Evidently you never learned ancient history.  If you had, you would have learned that men were very violent then and there were many wars.  That was then.  This is now, the 21st century, and all men should be more civilized and not be killing people because of religion.  Maybe you should sit down and read some ancient history instead of running after Phoenall like a dog in heat.


----------



## Phoenall

Humanity said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about a link that is unbiased and non partisan proving this. Means no islamonazi sourced lies. While you are at it explain why 90% of Christians in Palestine have been ethnically cleansed and their numbers have increased in Israel ?
> 
> 
> 
> Phoney you are negative person. Please accept the facts first then proceed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What facts as all I see is propaganda and lies with no supporting evidence, unlike the massacres of Jews by muslims over the last 1400 years supported by muslim records.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well you are the propagandist not me lire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The truth as written down in the koran and hadiths is not propaganda, it is the reality you muslims try and ignore
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read the bible to see how violent christians are...
> 
> A reality you christians try to ignore!
Click to expand...





Not really as the Christians have gone away from those verses and now ignore them. Something you islamo's forget because you have it as a command that EVERYTHING in the koran is to be acted on and can not be taken out. This was put in by mo'mad because he saw the Bible and Torah being reviewed and the parts that no longer fit being ignored. When was the last time a main stream Christian ran down the road screaming god is good and chopping peoples heads off ?

 Must try harder seems to have dogged you since you were a schoolchild


----------



## Humanity

Phoenall said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Phoney you are negative person. Please accept the facts first then proceed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What facts as all I see is propaganda and lies with no supporting evidence, unlike the massacres of Jews by muslims over the last 1400 years supported by muslim records.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well you are the propagandist not me lire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The truth as written down in the koran and hadiths is not propaganda, it is the reality you muslims try and ignore
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read the bible to see how violent christians are...
> 
> A reality you christians try to ignore!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really as the Christians have gone away from those verses and now ignore them. Something you islamo's forget because you have it as a command that EVERYTHING in the koran is to be acted on and can not be taken out. This was put in by mo'mad because he saw the Bible and Torah being reviewed and the parts that no longer fit being ignored. When was the last time a main stream Christian ran down the road screaming god is good and chopping peoples heads off ?
> 
> Must try harder seems to have dogged you since you were a schoolchild
Click to expand...


When was the last time a main stream Muslim ran down the road screaming god is good and chopping peoples heads off ?

You see, extremists of ALL religions are out there Phoney...

Something YOU choose to overlook!


----------



## Humanity

Hossfly said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> well you are the propagandist not me lire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The truth as written down in the koran and hadiths is not propaganda, it is the reality you muslims try and ignore
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read the bible to see how violent christians are...
> 
> A reality you christians try to ignore!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The bible was written before there were Christians, Cuddles. Besides they have mellowed during the past 2000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, as far as I am aware Tex, the Old Testament was concocted some time before Christians, by Jews, and was pretty horrific in it's texts as far as 'terrorism' is concerned...
> 
> Isn't the Old Testament based upon the Hebrew Bible and adopted by Jews? Hmmm
> 
> The New Testament is of Christian concoction...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Evidently you never learned ancient history.  If you had, you would have learned that men were very violent then and there were many wars.  That was then.  This is now, the 21st century, and all men should be more civilized and not be killing people because of religion.  Maybe you should sit down and read some ancient history instead of running after Phoenall like a dog in heat.
Click to expand...


If you lived in the real world you would find that men are very violent today and there are many wars going on! THIS IS NOW!

In the 21st century we see men NOT being more civilized and killing people NOT just for religion but for land, oil, drugs, race, power, for the hell of it...


----------



## Rehmani

Hossfly said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> well you are the propagandist not me lire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The truth as written down in the koran and hadiths is not propaganda, it is the reality you muslims try and ignore
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read the bible to see how violent christians are...
> 
> A reality you christians try to ignore!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The bible was written before there were Christians, Cuddles. Besides they have mellowed during the past 2000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, as far as I am aware Tex, the Old Testament was concocted some time before Christians, by Jews, and was pretty horrific in it's texts as far as 'terrorism' is concerned...
> 
> Isn't the Old Testament based upon the Hebrew Bible and adopted by Jews? Hmmm
> 
> The New Testament is of Christian concoction...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Evidently you never learned ancient history.  If you had, you would have learned that men were very violent then and there were many wars.  That was then.  This is now, the 21st century, and all men should be more civilized and not be killing people because of religion.  Maybe you should sit down and read some ancient history instead of running after Phoenall like a dog in heat.
Click to expand...

But Humanity is not wrong either, compare to ancient environment, still murders number quite high in the civilized environment. And Phonel is like a hot dog, running over all forum.


----------



## Rehmani

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> well you are the propagandist not me lire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The truth as written down in the koran and hadiths is not propaganda, it is the reality you muslims try and ignore
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read the bible to see how violent christians are...
> 
> A reality you christians try to ignore!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The bible was written before there were Christians, Cuddles. Besides they have mellowed during the past 2000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, as far as I am aware Tex, the Old Testament was concocted some time before Christians, by Jews, and was pretty horrific in it's texts as far as 'terrorism' is concerned...
> 
> Isn't the Old Testament based upon the Hebrew Bible and adopted by Jews? Hmmm
> 
> The New Testament is of Christian concoction...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Old Testament isn't "based" on the Hebrew Bible.  Rather, it IS the Hebrew Bible.  The Hebrew Bible is called the Tanach by Jews and the Old Testament by Christians.
Click to expand...

What Humanity means is that killing was on then, when world was not civilized and killing is still on when world is civilized for example Israel. For example people are killing in east and west, doesn't matter what ever the reason behind.


----------



## Rehmani

Humanity said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about a link that is unbiased and non partisan proving this. Means no islamonazi sourced lies. While you are at it explain why 90% of Christians in Palestine have been ethnically cleansed and their numbers have increased in Israel ?
> 
> 
> 
> Phoney you are negative person. Please accept the facts first then proceed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What facts as all I see is propaganda and lies with no supporting evidence, unlike the massacres of Jews by muslims over the last 1400 years supported by muslim records.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well you are the propagandist not me lire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The truth as written down in the koran and hadiths is not propaganda, it is the reality you muslims try and ignore
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read the bible to see how violent christians are...
> 
> A reality you christians try to ignore!
Click to expand...

But Humanity, for the sack of the answer, you are not wrong and still violence is high in the west but in different form. But as a Muslim we should not justify that our voilance action is right now compare to christian's voilance action. Voilance  should be condemned in any form or shape.


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Poor Phoney You are a only trouble and nothing else.
> 
> If this is the case then why Christian and Muslim in the Holy Land  stand united against Jews invasion and jew's killing and fighting together.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about a link that is unbiased and non partisan proving this. Means no islamonazi sourced lies. While you are at it explain why 90% of Christians in Palestine have been ethnically cleansed and their numbers have increased in Israel ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Phoney you are negative person. Please accept the facts first then proceed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What facts as all I see is propaganda and lies with no supporting evidence, unlike the massacres of Jews by muslims over the last 1400 years supported by muslim records.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well you are the propagandist not me lire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The truth as written down in the koran and hadiths is not propaganda, it is the reality you muslims try and ignore
Click to expand...

May be in different contact. Look there are more than billions muslim around and millions are living in the west peacefully, so you can not blame to all muslim and their religion, if hand full of hypocrite causing voilance and as I said hypocrite they might be 100 million missing jews living under cover as a muslim. I will give you link about it that how missing jew are playing, for example European parliament pass a bill last month that any goods imported from invaded territory by Israel, would be marked with yellow label not yellow star so buyers reject if they wanted. Israel protested against the bill strongly, just after this bill Paris incident occur. Similarly charli habdou incident occur immediate after heavy bombing in Gaza and killed 2000 innocent men,women and children and European were not happy at all with Israeli's terrorism. Because jew don't want loose europe's support.


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Who Is Being Delusional?*
> * Why the Palestinians are not interested in either peace or statehood. *
> November 20, 2015
> Caroline Glick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally published by the __Jerusalem Post__. _
> 
> On Tuesday night, Channel 10 broadcast an interview with PLO chief and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas in which Abbas admitted publicly for the first time that he rejected the peace plan then prime minister Ehud Olmert offered him in 2008.
> 
> Olmert’s plan called for Israel to withdraw from the entire Old City of Jerusalem, including the Western Wall, and from 93.7 percent of Judea and Samaria. Olmert also offered sovereign Israeli territory to the Palestinians to compensate for the areas Israel would retain in Judea and Samaria.
> 
> Abbas said his rejection was unequivocal. “I didn’t agree. I rejected it out of hand.”
> 
> For years, the story of Abbas’s rejection of Olmert’s 2008 offer has been underplayed. Many commentators have insisted Abbas didn’t really reject it, but just failed to respond.
> 
> But now the truth is clear. Abbas is not interested either in peace or in Palestinian statehood.
> 
> Abbas’s many apologists in the Israeli Left insist that he didn’t reject the plan on its merits. Rather, they argue, Abbas rejected Olmert’s offer because, by the time Olmert made it, he was involved in criminal investigations that forced him to resign from office eight months later.
> 
> Hogwash, says former AP reporter Mark Lavie.
> 
> Following the interview’s broadcast, Lavie countered that if Abbas were truly interested in establishing an independent Palestinian state, he wouldn’t have cared about the political fortunes of the Israeli prime minister. He would have taken the offer and run, knowing that, as Olmert said, the likelihood that he’d get a similar offer in the next 50 years was nonexistent.
> 
> The most notable reaction to Abbas’s admission was the reaction that never came. The Israeli Left had no reaction to his interview.
> 
> Abbas is the hero of the Left.
> 
> ...
> 
> We need to take Netanyahu’s coy responses to questions about unilateralism as an invitation to begin a serious public discussion of the option.
> 
> The public wants this discussion and we need this discussion.
> 
> As for how the peace camp will respond, well, there are worse things than having reactionaries call you “delusional.”
> 
> Who Is Being Delusional?
> 
> 
> 
> Being a member of a country, which is under invasion is hard to trust on invader and specially the prime minister has legal issue can not be accepted and definitely israeli didn't want to implement Olmer's plan either. This is the reason they removed him immediately. Israel base on tricks. Its creation was trick and it's existence followed by these kinds of tricks too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only proven invaders are the muslims as they invaded in 1875 on the promise of work, good wages and Jewish land. A pity the Jews did not employ them and formed defence groups to protect their lands. And the only way they could have increased by natural means would have been for 12 year old girls to have triplets every 9 months for the next 35 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> phoney you are mess but nothing. Can you tell me that how much time do you spend and how many forum do you cover here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3 this one, Europe and M.E. forums. The rest of my time is spent living life and socialising with friends. I research many subjects one being islam and its impact on the world. This research shows that close on 70 million innocents have been murdered by islam in the name of the false prophet since the end of WW2. Care to explain why this is ?
Click to expand...

Other day I checked that your name appear on all most every forum. And as you said impact of Islam, so I will tell you positive side of Islamic impact on the world. Look at Europe to day, it was not possible before Islam.


----------



## Phoenall

Humanity said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> What facts as all I see is propaganda and lies with no supporting evidence, unlike the massacres of Jews by muslims over the last 1400 years supported by muslim records.
> 
> 
> 
> well you are the propagandist not me lire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The truth as written down in the koran and hadiths is not propaganda, it is the reality you muslims try and ignore
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read the bible to see how violent christians are...
> 
> A reality you christians try to ignore!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really as the Christians have gone away from those verses and now ignore them. Something you islamo's forget because you have it as a command that EVERYTHING in the koran is to be acted on and can not be taken out. This was put in by mo'mad because he saw the Bible and Torah being reviewed and the parts that no longer fit being ignored. When was the last time a main stream Christian ran down the road screaming god is good and chopping peoples heads off ?
> 
> Must try harder seems to have dogged you since you were a schoolchild
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When was the last time a main stream Muslim ran down the road screaming god is good and chopping peoples heads off ?
> 
> You see, extremists of ALL religions are out there Phoney...
> 
> Something YOU choose to overlook!
Click to expand...





 Probably today in Europe, the last time in the UK was when Lee Rigby was killed by Islamic terrorists acting in accordance with the koran's teachings.

 No I don't as I condemn the extremists from all groups, including the ungodly neo marxists


----------



## Phoenall

Humanity said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The truth as written down in the koran and hadiths is not propaganda, it is the reality you muslims try and ignore
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read the bible to see how violent christians are...
> 
> A reality you christians try to ignore!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The bible was written before there were Christians, Cuddles. Besides they have mellowed during the past 2000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, as far as I am aware Tex, the Old Testament was concocted some time before Christians, by Jews, and was pretty horrific in it's texts as far as 'terrorism' is concerned...
> 
> Isn't the Old Testament based upon the Hebrew Bible and adopted by Jews? Hmmm
> 
> The New Testament is of Christian concoction...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Evidently you never learned ancient history.  If you had, you would have learned that men were very violent then and there were many wars.  That was then.  This is now, the 21st century, and all men should be more civilized and not be killing people because of religion.  Maybe you should sit down and read some ancient history instead of running after Phoenall like a dog in heat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you lived in the real world you would find that men are very violent today and there are many wars going on! THIS IS NOW!
> 
> In the 21st century we see men NOT being more civilized and killing people NOT just for religion but for land, oil, drugs, race, power, for the hell of it...
Click to expand...






 And we can blame the loony left and pinko liberals for that as they took away the deterrents, and handed out free passes to all the thugs


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Who Is Being Delusional?*
> * Why the Palestinians are not interested in either peace or statehood. *
> November 20, 2015
> Caroline Glick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally published by the __Jerusalem Post__. _
> 
> On Tuesday night, Channel 10 broadcast an interview with PLO chief and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas in which Abbas admitted publicly for the first time that he rejected the peace plan then prime minister Ehud Olmert offered him in 2008.
> 
> Olmert’s plan called for Israel to withdraw from the entire Old City of Jerusalem, including the Western Wall, and from 93.7 percent of Judea and Samaria. Olmert also offered sovereign Israeli territory to the Palestinians to compensate for the areas Israel would retain in Judea and Samaria.
> 
> Abbas said his rejection was unequivocal. “I didn’t agree. I rejected it out of hand.”
> 
> For years, the story of Abbas’s rejection of Olmert’s 2008 offer has been underplayed. Many commentators have insisted Abbas didn’t really reject it, but just failed to respond.
> 
> But now the truth is clear. Abbas is not interested either in peace or in Palestinian statehood.
> 
> Abbas’s many apologists in the Israeli Left insist that he didn’t reject the plan on its merits. Rather, they argue, Abbas rejected Olmert’s offer because, by the time Olmert made it, he was involved in criminal investigations that forced him to resign from office eight months later.
> 
> Hogwash, says former AP reporter Mark Lavie.
> 
> Following the interview’s broadcast, Lavie countered that if Abbas were truly interested in establishing an independent Palestinian state, he wouldn’t have cared about the political fortunes of the Israeli prime minister. He would have taken the offer and run, knowing that, as Olmert said, the likelihood that he’d get a similar offer in the next 50 years was nonexistent.
> 
> The most notable reaction to Abbas’s admission was the reaction that never came. The Israeli Left had no reaction to his interview.
> 
> Abbas is the hero of the Left.
> 
> ...
> 
> We need to take Netanyahu’s coy responses to questions about unilateralism as an invitation to begin a serious public discussion of the option.
> 
> The public wants this discussion and we need this discussion.
> 
> As for how the peace camp will respond, well, there are worse things than having reactionaries call you “delusional.”
> 
> Who Is Being Delusional?
> 
> 
> 
> Being a member of a country, which is under invasion is hard to trust on invader and specially the prime minister has legal issue can not be accepted and definitely israeli didn't want to implement Olmer's plan either. This is the reason they removed him immediately. Israel base on tricks. Its creation was trick and it's existence followed by these kinds of tricks too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only proven invaders are the muslims as they invaded in 1875 on the promise of work, good wages and Jewish land. A pity the Jews did not employ them and formed defence groups to protect their lands. And the only way they could have increased by natural means would have been for 12 year old girls to have triplets every 9 months for the next 35 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> phoney you are mess but nothing. Can you tell me that how much time do you spend and how many forum do you cover here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3 this one, Europe and M.E. forums. The rest of my time is spent living life and socialising with friends. I research many subjects one being islam and its impact on the world. This research shows that close on 70 million innocents have been murdered by islam in the name of the false prophet since the end of WW2. Care to explain why this is ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Other day I checked that your name appear on all most every forum. And as you said impact of Islam, so I will tell you positive side of Islamic impact on the world. Look at Europe to day, it was not possible before Islam.
Click to expand...






 LIAR as my name does not appear on any other forums but the 3 I mentioned.

 Yes look at Europe today with rampant sex crimes, beatings, terrorist attacks, muslim hordes invading. Or are you not seeing this happening, you forget I live in Europe and can see Islamic violence on a daily basis. Time to evict the ungodly muslim scum and close the doors on them again as they are a blight on the European nations.   We will see the Gates of Vienna again and the rout of the muslims once more in the not too distant future.


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about a link that is unbiased and non partisan proving this. Means no islamonazi sourced lies. While you are at it explain why 90% of Christians in Palestine have been ethnically cleansed and their numbers have increased in Israel ?
> 
> 
> 
> Phoney you are negative person. Please accept the facts first then proceed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What facts as all I see is propaganda and lies with no supporting evidence, unlike the massacres of Jews by muslims over the last 1400 years supported by muslim records.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well you are the propagandist not me lire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The truth as written down in the koran and hadiths is not propaganda, it is the reality you muslims try and ignore
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> May be in different contact. Look there are more than billions muslim around and millions are living in the west peacefully, so you can not blame to all muslim and their religion, if hand full of hypocrite causing voilance and as I said hypocrite they might be 100 million missing jews living under cover as a muslim. I will give you link about it that how missing jew are playing, for example European parliament pass a bill last month that any goods imported from invaded territory by Israel, would be marked with yellow label not yellow star so buyers reject if they wanted. Israel protested against the bill strongly, just after this bill Paris incident occur. Similarly charli habdou incident occur immediate after heavy bombing in Gaza and killed 2000 innocent men,women and children and European were not happy at all with Israeli's terrorism. Because jew don't want loose europe's support.
Click to expand...






 Try again as there is no such thing as the European parliament, so it cant pass any laws. The UK has refused to do this as it is against EU racism laws and many other European nations are doing the same.

 What did Charlie habdo to do with the reprisals against muslim terrorists in gaza, showing once again that all muslims are psychopathic killers that need eliminating completely.

 You are doing a very good job of demonising your fellow muslims and showing that you are a semi literate brainwashed terrorist supporter


----------



## Humanity

Phoenall said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> well you are the propagandist not me lire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The truth as written down in the koran and hadiths is not propaganda, it is the reality you muslims try and ignore
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read the bible to see how violent christians are...
> 
> A reality you christians try to ignore!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really as the Christians have gone away from those verses and now ignore them. Something you islamo's forget because you have it as a command that EVERYTHING in the koran is to be acted on and can not be taken out. This was put in by mo'mad because he saw the Bible and Torah being reviewed and the parts that no longer fit being ignored. When was the last time a main stream Christian ran down the road screaming god is good and chopping peoples heads off ?
> 
> Must try harder seems to have dogged you since you were a schoolchild
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When was the last time a main stream Muslim ran down the road screaming god is good and chopping peoples heads off ?
> 
> You see, extremists of ALL religions are out there Phoney...
> 
> Something YOU choose to overlook!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably today in Europe, the last time in the UK was when Lee Rigby was killed by Islamic terrorists acting in accordance with the koran's teachings.
> 
> No I don't as I condemn the extremists from all groups, including the ungodly neo marxists
Click to expand...


But we were talking about "main stream", your words...

"Main stream" is NOT Islamic terrorists...


----------



## Hossfly

Humanity said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The truth as written down in the koran and hadiths is not propaganda, it is the reality you muslims try and ignore
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read the bible to see how violent christians are...
> 
> A reality you christians try to ignore!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really as the Christians have gone away from those verses and now ignore them. Something you islamo's forget because you have it as a command that EVERYTHING in the koran is to be acted on and can not be taken out. This was put in by mo'mad because he saw the Bible and Torah being reviewed and the parts that no longer fit being ignored. When was the last time a main stream Christian ran down the road screaming god is good and chopping peoples heads off ?
> 
> Must try harder seems to have dogged you since you were a schoolchild
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When was the last time a main stream Muslim ran down the road screaming god is good and chopping peoples heads off ?
> 
> You see, extremists of ALL religions are out there Phoney...
> 
> Something YOU choose to overlook!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably today in Europe, the last time in the UK was when Lee Rigby was killed by Islamic terrorists acting in accordance with the koran's teachings.
> 
> No I don't as I condemn the extremists from all groups, including the ungodly neo marxists
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But we were talking about "main stream", your words...
> 
> "Main stream" is NOT Islamic terrorists...
Click to expand...

They think they are. Why, they even have their own country and a capital.


----------



## Phoenall

Humanity said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The truth as written down in the koran and hadiths is not propaganda, it is the reality you muslims try and ignore
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read the bible to see how violent christians are...
> 
> A reality you christians try to ignore!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really as the Christians have gone away from those verses and now ignore them. Something you islamo's forget because you have it as a command that EVERYTHING in the koran is to be acted on and can not be taken out. This was put in by mo'mad because he saw the Bible and Torah being reviewed and the parts that no longer fit being ignored. When was the last time a main stream Christian ran down the road screaming god is good and chopping peoples heads off ?
> 
> Must try harder seems to have dogged you since you were a schoolchild
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When was the last time a main stream Muslim ran down the road screaming god is good and chopping peoples heads off ?
> 
> You see, extremists of ALL religions are out there Phoney...
> 
> Something YOU choose to overlook!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably today in Europe, the last time in the UK was when Lee Rigby was killed by Islamic terrorists acting in accordance with the koran's teachings.
> 
> No I don't as I condemn the extremists from all groups, including the ungodly neo marxists
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But we were talking about "main stream", your words...
> 
> "Main stream" is NOT Islamic terrorists...
Click to expand...







 As Erdogan the Turkish P.M. said " there is no such thing as moderate islam, there is only islam"   I think I will take his word over yours any day.


----------



## Humanity

Hossfly said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Read the bible to see how violent christians are...
> 
> A reality you christians try to ignore!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really as the Christians have gone away from those verses and now ignore them. Something you islamo's forget because you have it as a command that EVERYTHING in the koran is to be acted on and can not be taken out. This was put in by mo'mad because he saw the Bible and Torah being reviewed and the parts that no longer fit being ignored. When was the last time a main stream Christian ran down the road screaming god is good and chopping peoples heads off ?
> 
> Must try harder seems to have dogged you since you were a schoolchild
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When was the last time a main stream Muslim ran down the road screaming god is good and chopping peoples heads off ?
> 
> You see, extremists of ALL religions are out there Phoney...
> 
> Something YOU choose to overlook!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably today in Europe, the last time in the UK was when Lee Rigby was killed by Islamic terrorists acting in accordance with the koran's teachings.
> 
> No I don't as I condemn the extremists from all groups, including the ungodly neo marxists
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But we were talking about "main stream", your words...
> 
> "Main stream" is NOT Islamic terrorists...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They think they are. Why, they even have their own country and a capital.
Click to expand...


And try speaking English... It helps in making your point clear....

If you were speaking English, well, you failed!

Have another try!


----------



## Humanity

Phoenall said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Read the bible to see how violent christians are...
> 
> A reality you christians try to ignore!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really as the Christians have gone away from those verses and now ignore them. Something you islamo's forget because you have it as a command that EVERYTHING in the koran is to be acted on and can not be taken out. This was put in by mo'mad because he saw the Bible and Torah being reviewed and the parts that no longer fit being ignored. When was the last time a main stream Christian ran down the road screaming god is good and chopping peoples heads off ?
> 
> Must try harder seems to have dogged you since you were a schoolchild
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When was the last time a main stream Muslim ran down the road screaming god is good and chopping peoples heads off ?
> 
> You see, extremists of ALL religions are out there Phoney...
> 
> Something YOU choose to overlook!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably today in Europe, the last time in the UK was when Lee Rigby was killed by Islamic terrorists acting in accordance with the koran's teachings.
> 
> No I don't as I condemn the extremists from all groups, including the ungodly neo marxists
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But we were talking about "main stream", your words...
> 
> "Main stream" is NOT Islamic terrorists...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As Erdogan the Turkish P.M. said " there is no such thing as moderate islam, there is only islam"   I think I will take his word over yours any day.
Click to expand...


Yes, you do that Phoney...

Erdogan is a proven extremist, of the most dangerous kind...

He is a mindless fascist above everything else, including Islam...

So why does it not surprise me that you would take his word!?!?!

Failed neo marxist, Islamophobic, zionut racist that you are....

One who prefers to sit on his 400w radio set than go out and experience the real world first hand...

Go Phoney, the extremist fascist zionut!


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Phoney you are negative person. Please accept the facts first then proceed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What facts as all I see is propaganda and lies with no supporting evidence, unlike the massacres of Jews by muslims over the last 1400 years supported by muslim records.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well you are the propagandist not me lire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The truth as written down in the koran and hadiths is not propaganda, it is the reality you muslims try and ignore
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> May be in different contact. Look there are more than billions muslim around and millions are living in the west peacefully, so you can not blame to all muslim and their religion, if hand full of hypocrite causing voilance and as I said hypocrite they might be 100 million missing jews living under cover as a muslim. I will give you link about it that how missing jew are playing, for example European parliament pass a bill last month that any goods imported from invaded territory by Israel, would be marked with yellow label not yellow star so buyers reject if they wanted. Israel protested against the bill strongly, just after this bill Paris incident occur. Similarly charli habdou incident occur immediate after heavy bombing in Gaza and killed 2000 innocent men,women and children and European were not happy at all with Israeli's terrorism. Because jew don't want loose europe's support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try again as there is no such thing as the European parliament, so it cant pass any laws. The UK has refused to do this as it is against EU racism laws and many other European nations are doing the same.
> 
> What did Charlie habdo to do with the reprisals against muslim terrorists in gaza, showing once again that all muslims are psychopathic killers that need eliminating completely.
> 
> You are doing a very good job of demonising your fellow muslims and showing that you are a semi literate brainwashed terrorist supporter
Click to expand...

Look UK and EU both forcing Israel that don't establish illegal settlement on land of Palestine and in this regards they are making laws you better checked it out. And as long as long what Charlie Habdo is to do with it. because jews used that situation.


----------



## docmauser1

Rehmani said:


> But *Humanity*, for the sack of the answer, ...


Oh, he/she has sacks and sacks of them, full of answers, of course. Specify, which one, plz.


----------



## docmauser1

Humanity said:


> ... "Main stream" is NOT Islamic terrorists...


The ones, who ran out of ammunition, of course.


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> What facts as all I see is propaganda and lies with no supporting evidence, unlike the massacres of Jews by muslims over the last 1400 years supported by muslim records.
> 
> 
> 
> well you are the propagandist not me lire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The truth as written down in the koran and hadiths is not propaganda, it is the reality you muslims try and ignore
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> May be in different contact. Look there are more than billions muslim around and millions are living in the west peacefully, so you can not blame to all muslim and their religion, if hand full of hypocrite causing voilance and as I said hypocrite they might be 100 million missing jews living under cover as a muslim. I will give you link about it that how missing jew are playing, for example European parliament pass a bill last month that any goods imported from invaded territory by Israel, would be marked with yellow label not yellow star so buyers reject if they wanted. Israel protested against the bill strongly, just after this bill Paris incident occur. Similarly charli habdou incident occur immediate after heavy bombing in Gaza and killed 2000 innocent men,women and children and European were not happy at all with Israeli's terrorism. Because jew don't want loose europe's support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try again as there is no such thing as the European parliament, so it cant pass any laws. The UK has refused to do this as it is against EU racism laws and many other European nations are doing the same.
> 
> What did Charlie habdo to do with the reprisals against muslim terrorists in gaza, showing once again that all muslims are psychopathic killers that need eliminating completely.
> 
> You are doing a very good job of demonising your fellow muslims and showing that you are a semi literate brainwashed terrorist supporter
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look UK and EU both forcing Israel that don't establish illegal settlement on land of Palestine and in this regards they are making laws you better checked it out. And as long as long what Charlie Habdo is to do with it. because jews used that situation.
Click to expand...








 I would think someone who lives in the UK would know more about this that someone who lives thousands of miles away. Still waiting for the proof that the settlements are all illegal, when the facts show that the land was Jewish prior to 1949 when they were forcibly evicted by the Palestinian muslims and their land stolen. There are no such laws in the UK as they would fall foul of the existing human rights laws and racism laws.  So the muslim terrorists murdered the innocents at Charlie Hebdo because the Jews might use the murders at a later date, are you trying hardtop be stupid ?


----------



## Humanity

Phoenall said:


> I would think someone who lives in the UK would know more about this that someone who lives thousands of miles away.



How so?

Clearly, you living in the UK and all, knows very little...



Phoenall said:


> Still waiting for the proof that the settlements are all illegal



Not waiting, just ignoring the proof that has been shown to you, the proof that is known to you...

But thats just your zionut mentality... Ignorance is zionut bliss!


----------



## Billo_Really

American_Jihad said:


> *Who Is Being Delusional?*
> * Why the Palestinians are not interested in either peace or statehood. *
> November 20, 2015
> Caroline Glick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally published by the __Jerusalem Post__. _
> 
> On Tuesday night, Channel 10 broadcast an interview with PLO chief and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas in which Abbas admitted publicly for the first time that he rejected the peace plan then prime minister Ehud Olmert offered him in 2008.
> 
> Olmert’s plan called for Israel to withdraw from the entire Old City of Jerusalem, including the Western Wall, and from 93.7 percent of Judea and Samaria. Olmert also offered sovereign Israeli territory to the Palestinians to compensate for the areas Israel would retain in Judea and Samaria.
> 
> Abbas said his rejection was unequivocal. “I didn’t agree. I rejected it out of hand.”
> 
> For years, the story of Abbas’s rejection of Olmert’s 2008 offer has been underplayed. Many commentators have insisted Abbas didn’t really reject it, but just failed to respond.
> 
> But now the truth is clear. Abbas is not interested either in peace or in Palestinian statehood.
> 
> Abbas’s many apologists in the Israeli Left insist that he didn’t reject the plan on its merits. Rather, they argue, Abbas rejected Olmert’s offer because, by the time Olmert made it, he was involved in criminal investigations that forced him to resign from office eight months later.
> 
> Hogwash, says former AP reporter Mark Lavie.
> 
> Following the interview’s broadcast, Lavie countered that if Abbas were truly interested in establishing an independent Palestinian state, he wouldn’t have cared about the political fortunes of the Israeli prime minister. He would have taken the offer and run, knowing that, as Olmert said, the likelihood that he’d get a similar offer in the next 50 years was nonexistent.
> 
> The most notable reaction to Abbas’s admission was the reaction that never came. The Israeli Left had no reaction to his interview.
> 
> Abbas is the hero of the Left.
> 
> ...
> 
> We need to take Netanyahu’s coy responses to questions about unilateralism as an invitation to begin a serious public discussion of the option.
> 
> The public wants this discussion and we need this discussion.
> 
> As for how the peace camp will respond, well, there are worse things than having reactionaries call you “delusional.”
> 
> Who Is Being Delusional?


You need to stop blaming the rape victim for the rape.

Why would Abbas have accepted any deal from a country that doesn't keep any deal they make? Especially, when there was nothing to deal.  That's not the issue.

If Israel wanted peace, they would end the occupation.  It's that simple.


----------



## Phoenall

Humanity said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would think someone who lives in the UK would know more about this that someone who lives thousands of miles away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
> 
> Clearly, you living in the UK and all, knows very little...
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting for the proof that the settlements are all illegal
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not waiting, just ignoring the proof that has been shown to you, the proof that is known to you...
> 
> But thats just your zionut mentality... Ignorance is zionut bliss!
Click to expand...






 Keep it up and you could be the first to get hit by the new rules, remember no flaming and no deflection allowed


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> well you are the propagandist not me lire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The truth as written down in the koran and hadiths is not propaganda, it is the reality you muslims try and ignore
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> May be in different contact. Look there are more than billions muslim around and millions are living in the west peacefully, so you can not blame to all muslim and their religion, if hand full of hypocrite causing voilance and as I said hypocrite they might be 100 million missing jews living under cover as a muslim. I will give you link about it that how missing jew are playing, for example European parliament pass a bill last month that any goods imported from invaded territory by Israel, would be marked with yellow label not yellow star so buyers reject if they wanted. Israel protested against the bill strongly, just after this bill Paris incident occur. Similarly charli habdou incident occur immediate after heavy bombing in Gaza and killed 2000 innocent men,women and children and European were not happy at all with Israeli's terrorism. Because jew don't want loose europe's support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try again as there is no such thing as the European parliament, so it cant pass any laws. The UK has refused to do this as it is against EU racism laws and many other European nations are doing the same.
> 
> What did Charlie habdo to do with the reprisals against muslim terrorists in gaza, showing once again that all muslims are psychopathic killers that need eliminating completely.
> 
> You are doing a very good job of demonising your fellow muslims and showing that you are a semi literate brainwashed terrorist supporter
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look UK and EU both forcing Israel that don't establish illegal settlement on land of Palestine and in this regards they are making laws you better checked it out. And as long as long what Charlie Habdo is to do with it. because jews used that situation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would think someone who lives in the UK would know more about this that someone who lives thousands of miles away. Still waiting for the proof that the settlements are all illegal, when the facts show that the land was Jewish prior to 1949 when they were forcibly evicted by the Palestinian muslims and their land stolen. There are no such laws in the UK as they would fall foul of the existing human rights laws and racism laws.  So the muslim terrorists murdered the innocents at Charlie Hebdo because the Jews might use the murders at a later date, are you trying hardtop be stupid ?
Click to expand...

First Paris incident occur just after Israel killed 2000 innocent people and European were not happy with Israeli terror. And second incident occur after this bill passed by European parliament. While whole muslim world condemned the both incidents. Then who is behind the terror attack if all Muslim world rejecting it.


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The truth as written down in the koran and hadiths is not propaganda, it is the reality you muslims try and ignore
> 
> 
> 
> May be in different contact. Look there are more than billions muslim around and millions are living in the west peacefully, so you can not blame to all muslim and their religion, if hand full of hypocrite causing voilance and as I said hypocrite they might be 100 million missing jews living under cover as a muslim. I will give you link about it that how missing jew are playing, for example European parliament pass a bill last month that any goods imported from invaded territory by Israel, would be marked with yellow label not yellow star so buyers reject if they wanted. Israel protested against the bill strongly, just after this bill Paris incident occur. Similarly charli habdou incident occur immediate after heavy bombing in Gaza and killed 2000 innocent men,women and children and European were not happy at all with Israeli's terrorism. Because jew don't want loose europe's support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try again as there is no such thing as the European parliament, so it cant pass any laws. The UK has refused to do this as it is against EU racism laws and many other European nations are doing the same.
> 
> What did Charlie habdo to do with the reprisals against muslim terrorists in gaza, showing once again that all muslims are psychopathic killers that need eliminating completely.
> 
> You are doing a very good job of demonising your fellow muslims and showing that you are a semi literate brainwashed terrorist supporter
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look UK and EU both forcing Israel that don't establish illegal settlement on land of Palestine and in this regards they are making laws you better checked it out. And as long as long what Charlie Habdo is to do with it. because jews used that situation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would think someone who lives in the UK would know more about this that someone who lives thousands of miles away. Still waiting for the proof that the settlements are all illegal, when the facts show that the land was Jewish prior to 1949 when they were forcibly evicted by the Palestinian muslims and their land stolen. There are no such laws in the UK as they would fall foul of the existing human rights laws and racism laws.  So the muslim terrorists murdered the innocents at Charlie Hebdo because the Jews might use the murders at a later date, are you trying hardtop be stupid ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> First Paris incident occur just after Israel killed 2000 innocent people and European were not happy with Israeli terror. And second incident occur after this bill passed by European parliament. While whole muslim world condemned the both incidents. Then who is behind the terror attack if all Muslim world rejecting it.
Click to expand...






So what did the French have to do with the repercussions of the acts of war by hamas. The French did not drop any bombs on gaza, or fire at any hamas terrorists. If this is the case then France can drop bombs on Mecca and destroy the mosque there.  Did the French oppose this bill and declare that they would only buy from Israeli farms in the west bank, again this means that the French can now bomb gaza in return for the deaths of innocents in France. See were this is leading as very soon there would be no muslims left if the west employed Islamic measures and moralities.  
 The muslims only condemned the attacks after they faces reprisals for them, which is common all over the world.  It is islam and its teachings in the koran that is to blame, does it not say terrorise those who will not bow down before me until there is only islam ?


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici,  et al,

I don't think you understand the concept at all.  The Palestinians are trying to associate themselves with African National Congress to assume the color of an oppress but courageous people.  They try to cast a shadow of evil, attempting to equate the Israeli Government as an "Apartheid State" hoping that the target audience actually don't understand what "Apartheid" means in practice and legally. 

They Hostile Arab Palestinian wants to shake the descriptive equivalence of "terrorist. Jihadist, and Radical Islamist" and trade it for something heroic; while all the time conducting activities that target the children, elderly, the infirm and those who protected under Customary International Humanitarian Law, through ambushes, assaults, bombings, rocket attacks, kidnapping and murder of the defenseless. 

The Hostile Arab Palestinians want to pretend that their past criminal activities have not established a legacy, a consistent pattern over time (7 decades), of deviant behavior that do not conform to social norms and values; or elicit negative response.  They want to pretend they are somehow heroic, yet are terribly lacking any depth of character.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians (individually and collectively) unwilling to face their fears in the destiny they have shaped, and meet the challenges head on.  They are incapable of making the hard decisions or compromise for the peace in the greater good, even when the likely outcome appears unfair.  None of them are committed to a notion of what is right or honorable, or have the strength and determination to take the hard to and build a better tomorrow.

Hero's NEVER kidnap and murder teenagers, kill and drowned the infirm in wheelchairs, target and attack the citizenry that are not involved directly in hostilities.  Shield themselves from attack by blending their military operations in with the densely populated non-combatant citizens.

Evidence of a pattern of deviant behavior is relevant to establish that an offender has had, and will have, serious difficulty controlling his behavior.



montelatici said:


> Freedom fighters are only terrorists in the eyes of the colonist/oppressive regimes.  The Muhajedin were considered freedom fighters when they were fighting the Russians, now that they are fighting the U.S., their sons and grandsons are considered terrorists.  So don't give us the bullshit about the Palestinian freedom fighters being terrorists.
> 
> The Palestinians are no more terrorists than the ANC were when they were bombing shopping centers in downtown Johannesburg.  The ANC lost every engagement with the South African Apartheid State security forces _(which had nuclear weapons as Israel has)_.
> 
> They lost more and more land to the whites.  But, the constant attacks and war on the whites finally forced the whites to come to the table and agree to majority rule.  Violence against an oppressive regime is the only answer.  Peaceful resistance against a powerful oppressor gets you nowhere, unfortunately.



*(CONCEPT)*

Rebels are people/citizens who refuse to accept an allegiance to the current government, people/citizens that resists and rise-up against the government or sovereign rulers; people/citizens who challenge any authority, control, or tradition.  No one ever calls or describes the Hostile Arab Palestinians as "rebels."

Radicalization and recruitment are also a large part of the problem because they involve getting more individuals involved and supporting the movement.  Terrorism is a highly complex and constantly changing form that ranges from nationalist-separatist organizations and political groups and individuals that commit terrorist acts to be in furtherance of the goals of Islam; an ideology holds that Islam is not only a religion, but also a social and political system that governs the legal, economic and social imperatives of the state according to its interpretation of Islamic law.    Based on other or mixed motivations or ideologies the contemporary Jihadist often appears intent on a course to intimidate or coerce a government as a means of influence to achieve the Jihadist agenda.

*Jihadi terrorists in Europe December 2006*
By: Edwin Bakker Data collection: Teije Hidde Donker & Edwin Bakker
NETHERLANDS INSTITUTE OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS --- CLINGENDAEL

Our analysis of the characteristics of the 242 individual *jihadi terrorists* leads to the following general picture.

_*Jihadi, or jihadist,* refers to a person who believes that an Islamic state governing the entire community of Muslims must be created, and that this necessity justifies violent conflict with those who stand in its way._

_Although jihad is a concept that can be found in the Quran, the terms jihadi, jihadi ideology and jihadi movement are modern concepts related to the rise of political Islam in the 19th and 20th centuries._

_•  (*Political Islam is also called Islamism, and its adherents Islamists.*)_

_There are many contemporary Muslims and others who believe that Islam and politics are compatible, and a wide spectrum of views about how Islam and politics relate. Violence plays no part in most of these views._

_Jihadis are a narrow subset of this group who interpret Islam, and the concept of jihad, to mean that war must be waged against states and groups who in their eyes have corrupted the ideals of Islamic governance. Saudi Arabia is high on this list because it claims to be ruling according to the precepts of Islam, and it is the home of Mecca and Medina, two of Islam's holiest sites_


They are mostly single males that are born and raised in Europe; they are not particularly young; they are often from the lower strata of society; and many of them have a criminal record. 53 Their socioeconomic background and their often tainted criminal history are reflective of many youngsters in immigrant Muslim communities in Europe, to which most of them belong. Given the fact that more than 40 percent of them were born in Europe and an additional 55 percent have been raised in European countries or are long-term residents, the label ‘home-grown’ is very appropriate to this group. If we look at the circumstances in which these individuals became involved in jihadi terrorist activities, a picture emerges of networks including friends or relatives that do not seem to have formal ties with global Salafi networks; that radicalize with little outside interference; and that do so in the country in which they live, often together with family members or friends. ​*(COMMENT)*

Freedom Fighters are more in the category of those that are heroic.  They are not Jihadist. 

A *resistance movement* can be an organized effort by some portion segment of the population to resist the legally established government or an occupying power and to disrupt civil order and stability; if in fact that was true.  And a *"freedom fighter"* would be a person who takes part in a resistance movement against an oppressive political or social establishment.  The Palestinians often point to Additional Protocols ( Article 1(4) Additional Protocol I to Fourth Geneva Convention) to justify this concepts.  You will notice that Protocol includes the phrase: "against racist régimes in the exercise of their right of self-determination."  Israel is not a Racist Regime, it is actually a more racially diverse population than the Palestinians; nor has Israel prevented the Palestinians ability to "exercise of their right of self-determination."  The Palestinians exercised their right to self-determination when they formed the Holy War Army _(lead by Hasan Salama a former German Fallschirmjaeger and special commando, Waffen SS with direct connections to Operation ATLAS, jointly operated by Abwehr and the Grand Mufti al-Husseini)_ and the Arab Liberation Army _(lead by Fawzi al-Qawuqji, former a Colonel of the Wehrmacht)_  when they joined with the aggressor Arab League Forces.  NOR, did Israel prevent the Arab Palestinian in their Secession to merge with Jordan.  NOR did Israel prevent the Arab Palestinians from declaring independence in 1988.  The Arab Palestinians ARE NOT "freedom fighters," but by their own admission they are Jihadist.

As Khaled Meshal stated:

Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media, public and legal [spheres]; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle.​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> I don't think you understand the concept at all.  The Palestinians are trying to associate themselves with African National Congress to assume the color of an oppress but courageous people.  They try to cast a shadow of evil, attempting to equate the Israeli Government as an "Apartheid State" hoping that the target audience actually don't understand what "Apartheid" means in practice and legally.
> 
> They Hostile Arab Palestinian wants to shake the descriptive equivalence of "terrorist. Jihadist, and Radical Islamist" and trade it for something heroic; while all the time conducting activities that target the children, elderly, the infirm and those who protected under Customary International Humanitarian Law, through ambushes, assaults, bombings, rocket attacks, kidnapping and murder of the defenseless.
> 
> The Hostile Arab Palestinians want to pretend that their past criminal activities have not established a legacy, a consistent pattern over time (7 decades), of deviant behavior that do not conform to social norms and values; or elicit negative response.  They want to pretend they are somehow heroic, yet are terribly lacking any depth of character.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians (individually and collectively) unwilling to face their fears in the destiny they have shaped, and meet the challenges head on.  They are incapable of making the hard decisions or compromise for the peace in the greater good, even when the likely outcome appears unfair.  None of them are committed to a notion of what is right or honorable, or have the strength and determination to take the hard to and build a better tomorrow.
> 
> Hero's NEVER kidnap and murder teenagers, kill and drowned the infirm in wheelchairs, target and attack the citizenry that are not involved directly in hostilities.  Shield themselves from attack by blending their military operations in with the densely populated non-combatant citizens.
> 
> Evidence of a pattern of deviant behavior is relevant to establish that an offender has had, and will have, serious difficulty controlling his behavior.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom fighters are only terrorists in the eyes of the colonist/oppressive regimes.  The Muhajedin were considered freedom fighters when they were fighting the Russians, now that they are fighting the U.S., their sons and grandsons are considered terrorists.  So don't give us the bullshit about the Palestinian freedom fighters being terrorists.
> 
> The Palestinians are no more terrorists than the ANC were when they were bombing shopping centers in downtown Johannesburg.  The ANC lost every engagement with the South African Apartheid State security forces _(which had nuclear weapons as Israel has)_.
> 
> They lost more and more land to the whites.  But, the constant attacks and war on the whites finally forced the whites to come to the table and agree to majority rule.  Violence against an oppressive regime is the only answer.  Peaceful resistance against a powerful oppressor gets you nowhere, unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(CONCEPT)*
> 
> Rebels are people/citizens who refuse to accept an allegiance to the current government, people/citizens that resists and rise-up against the government or sovereign rulers; people/citizens who challenge any authority, control, or tradition.  No one ever calls or describes the Hostile Arab Palestinians as "rebels."
> 
> Radicalization and recruitment are also a large part of the problem because they involve getting more individuals involved and supporting the movement.  Terrorism is a highly complex and constantly changing form that ranges from nationalist-separatist organizations and political groups and individuals that commit terrorist acts to be in furtherance of the goals of Islam; an ideology holds that Islam is not only a religion, but also a social and political system that governs the legal, economic and social imperatives of the state according to its interpretation of Islamic law.    Based on other or mixed motivations or ideologies the contemporary Jihadist often appears intent on a course to intimidate or coerce a government as a means of influence to achieve the Jihadist agenda.
> 
> *Jihadi terrorists in Europe December 2006*
> By: Edwin Bakker Data collection: Teije Hidde Donker & Edwin Bakker
> NETHERLANDS INSTITUTE OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS --- CLINGENDAEL
> 
> Our analysis of the characteristics of the 242 individual *jihadi terrorists* leads to the following general picture.
> 
> _*Jihadi, or jihadist,* refers to a person who believes that an Islamic state governing the entire community of Muslims must be created, and that this necessity justifies violent conflict with those who stand in its way._
> 
> _Although jihad is a concept that can be found in the Quran, the terms jihadi, jihadi ideology and jihadi movement are modern concepts related to the rise of political Islam in the 19th and 20th centuries._
> 
> _•  (*Political Islam is also called Islamism, and its adherents Islamists.*)_
> 
> _There are many contemporary Muslims and others who believe that Islam and politics are compatible, and a wide spectrum of views about how Islam and politics relate. Violence plays no part in most of these views._
> 
> _Jihadis are a narrow subset of this group who interpret Islam, and the concept of jihad, to mean that war must be waged against states and groups who in their eyes have corrupted the ideals of Islamic governance. Saudi Arabia is high on this list because it claims to be ruling according to the precepts of Islam, and it is the home of Mecca and Medina, two of Islam's holiest sites_
> 
> 
> They are mostly single males that are born and raised in Europe; they are not particularly young; they are often from the lower strata of society; and many of them have a criminal record. 53 Their socioeconomic background and their often tainted criminal history are reflective of many youngsters in immigrant Muslim communities in Europe, to which most of them belong. Given the fact that more than 40 percent of them were born in Europe and an additional 55 percent have been raised in European countries or are long-term residents, the label ‘home-grown’ is very appropriate to this group. If we look at the circumstances in which these individuals became involved in jihadi terrorist activities, a picture emerges of networks including friends or relatives that do not seem to have formal ties with global Salafi networks; that radicalize with little outside interference; and that do so in the country in which they live, often together with family members or friends.​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> Freedom Fighters are more in the category of those that are heroic.  They are not Jihadist.
> 
> A *resistance movement* can be an organized effort by some portion segment of the population to resist the legally established government or an occupying power and to disrupt civil order and stability; if in fact that was true.  And a *"freedom fighter"* would be a person who takes part in a resistance movement against an oppressive political or social establishment.  The Palestinians often point to Additional Protocols ( Article 1(4) Additional Protocol I to Fourth Geneva Convention) to justify this concepts.  You will notice that Protocol includes the phrase: "against racist régimes in the exercise of their right of self-determination."  Israel is not a Racist Regime, it is actually a more racially diverse population than the Palestinians; nor has Israel prevented the Palestinians ability to "exercise of their right of self-determination."  The Palestinians exercised their right to self-determination when they formed the Holy War Army _(lead by Hasan Salama a former German Fallschirmjaeger and special commando, Waffen SS with direct connections to Operation ATLAS, jointly operated by Abwehr and the Grand Mufti al-Husseini)_ and the Arab Liberation Army _(lead by Fawzi al-Qawuqji, former a Colonel of the Wehrmacht)_  when they joined with the aggressor Arab League Forces.  NOR, did Israel prevent the Arab Palestinian in their Secession to merge with Jordan.  NOR did Israel prevent the Arab Palestinians from declaring independence in 1988.  The Arab Palestinians ARE NOT "freedom fighters," but by their own admission they are Jihadist.
> 
> As Khaled Meshal stated:
> 
> Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media, public and legal [spheres]; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Of course Palestinians are freedom fighters.  And, of course Israel has prevented the Palestinians from exercising their right of self-determination.  


In terms of heroism, the Palestinians are facing far stronger oppression and have far fewer resources than had the ANC, hence they are probably more heroic given their continued restistance.

As far as violence, the Palestinians have followed the course that other national liberation movements have followed, like the ANC. The ANC's Charter for Umkhonto we Sizwe is remarkably similar to that of the Palestinians. 

"*Preamble*
Recognising that our army, Umkhonto we Sizwe, must define its aims and objects in clear and precise terms, and that the rights and duties of each member should be likewise defined without ambiguity, the Politico-Military Council, acting on behalf of the African National Congress of South Africa, has adopted and hereby decrees this code for the guidance of members in cell positions.

*1. Umkhonto we Sizwe - a People`s Army*
The ANC and its allies created Umkhonto as a new and indispensable weapon in the struggle for people`s power. Unlike the armed forces of* the racist regime of South Africa, which we have vowed to crush and annihilate*, and unlike all other armies of imperialism, Umkhonto we Sizwe is a People`s Army organised and dedicated to waging a people`s war for the liberation of our country.

Umkhonto is an army of volunteers. It consists of volunteers drawn from the revolutionary sections of our people. By joining Umkhonto, combatants commit themselves to the solemn and noble duty of serving our suffering and dispossessed people in the struggle that will continue for each and all of us until victory or death.

In the words of our founding Manifesto, published on the historic day of 16th December 1961: `Umkhonto we Sizwe will be at the front line of the people`s defence. It will be the fighting arm of the people against the racist government and its policies of racial oppression. It will be the striking force of the people for liberty, for rights and for their final liberation............."


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> *In terms of heroism, the Palestinians are facing far stronger oppression* and have far fewer resources than had the ANC, hence they are probably more heroic given their continued restistance.


Virtual "oppression", that is. And, indeed, the Soviet Union sank muuucho money down the ANC toilet.


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> May be in different contact. Look there are more than billions muslim around and millions are living in the west peacefully, so you can not blame to all muslim and their religion, if hand full of hypocrite causing voilance and as I said hypocrite they might be 100 million missing jews living under cover as a muslim. I will give you link about it that how missing jew are playing, for example European parliament pass a bill last month that any goods imported from invaded territory by Israel, would be marked with yellow label not yellow star so buyers reject if they wanted. Israel protested against the bill strongly, just after this bill Paris incident occur. Similarly charli habdou incident occur immediate after heavy bombing in Gaza and killed 2000 innocent men,women and children and European were not happy at all with Israeli's terrorism. Because jew don't want loose europe's support.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try again as there is no such thing as the European parliament, so it cant pass any laws. The UK has refused to do this as it is against EU racism laws and many other European nations are doing the same.
> 
> What did Charlie habdo to do with the reprisals against muslim terrorists in gaza, showing once again that all muslims are psychopathic killers that need eliminating completely.
> 
> You are doing a very good job of demonising your fellow muslims and showing that you are a semi literate brainwashed terrorist supporter
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look UK and EU both forcing Israel that don't establish illegal settlement on land of Palestine and in this regards they are making laws you better checked it out. And as long as long what Charlie Habdo is to do with it. because jews used that situation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would think someone who lives in the UK would know more about this that someone who lives thousands of miles away. Still waiting for the proof that the settlements are all illegal, when the facts show that the land was Jewish prior to 1949 when they were forcibly evicted by the Palestinian muslims and their land stolen. There are no such laws in the UK as they would fall foul of the existing human rights laws and racism laws.  So the muslim terrorists murdered the innocents at Charlie Hebdo because the Jews might use the murders at a later date, are you trying hardtop be stupid ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> First Paris incident occur just after Israel killed 2000 innocent people and European were not happy with Israeli terror. And second incident occur after this bill passed by European parliament. While whole muslim world condemned the both incidents. Then who is behind the terror attack if all Muslim world rejecting it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what did the French have to do with the repercussions of the acts of war by hamas. The French did not drop any bombs on gaza, or fire at any hamas terrorists. If this is the case then France can drop bombs on Mecca and destroy the mosque there.  Did the French oppose this bill and declare that they would only buy from Israeli farms in the west bank, again this means that the French can now bomb gaza in return for the deaths of innocents in France. See were this is leading as very soon there would be no muslims left if the west employed Islamic measures and moralities.
> The muslims only condemned the attacks after they faces reprisals for them, which is common all over the world.  It is islam and its teachings in the koran that is to blame, does it not say terrorise those who will not bow down before me until there is only islam ?
Click to expand...

Look phoney you are full of hate and you are earning by spreading hate, tell us how much you earned as propagandist.


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici,  et al,

This is entirely wrong.



montelatici said:


> Of course Palestinians are freedom fighters.  And, of course Israel has prevented the Palestinians from exercising their right of self-determination.
> 
> In terms of heroism, the Palestinians are facing far stronger oppression and have far fewer resources than had the ANC, hence they are probably more heroic given their continued restistance.
> 
> As far as violence, the Palestinians have followed the course that other national liberation movements have followed, like the ANC. The ANC's Charter for Umkhonto we Sizwe is remarkably similar to that of the Palestinians.


*(COMMENT)*

The Palestinians have exercised the right of self-determination three times on 70 years, and the Israelis did not oppose them.  "Of course" they Israelis did not interfere with the Arab Palestinian right to self-determination.

The Palestinians have attacked unarmed, non-combatants, nationally and internationally, countless times.  They've attacked school children, the disabled, the aged, and the defenseless; many many times in the last 70 years.

Not all national liberation movements are honorable.  And clearly the major Arab Palestinian leaders of 1948, were cross-section ---  more being less honorable than others. These dishonorable leaders, with a history of serving the Ottoman/Turks and the WWII Germans in formal service and as enemy collaborators against the allied powers, have nothing to be proud of in terms of chivalry or a system of positive religious, moral, and social codes.  And this lack of chivalry, in the exercise of positive religious, moral, and social codes, has been passed down over several generations to parents that train their children to hate and pursue acts of terror and war for a cause that cannot be won.  These Hostile Arab Palestinians hold many of the characteristics of radical Islamic threats that are generally thought to be less than positive for the species and humanity. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Humanity

RoccoR said:


> The Palestinians have attacked unarmed, non-combatants, nationally and internationally, countless times.



Yeah, pretty accurate, and every act is WRONG!

Likewise, Israel has and continues to attack unarmed, non-combatants, nationally and internationally, countless times.

Just saying!


----------



## RoccoR

Rehmani,  et al,

Oh come now!  Is that really accurate?  Is it really close to the truth?



Rehmani said:


> Look phoney you are full of hate and you are earning by spreading hate, tell us how much you earned as propagandist.


*(EXAMPLES)*

What are these examples of?

Spreading Hate
Bring Hate
Preventing Peace
Band #1:

*Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate - Columbia Daily ...*
www.columbiatribune.com/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/arab...
Jan 24, *2015 *· Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate - Columbia Daily Tribune: Letters To The Editor Opinion ... Open Column Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate.

*Pro-Palestinian students bring hate, intimidation to ...*
www.foxnews.com/us/2014/06/09/pro-palestinian-students-bring-hate...
Jun 09, *2014* · ... hateful rhetoric.Students for Justice in Palestine has ... Palestinian students bring hate, ... students in America uncomfortable on campus seems ...

*How Palestinian Hate Prevents Peace - The New York Times*
www.nytimes.com/2013/10/16/opinion/how-palestinian-hate-prevents...
Oct 15, *2013* · How Palestinian Hate Prevents Peace. By YUVAL STEINITZ ...Palestinian leaders must now reciprocate by immediately and fully halting their …​Band #2:

*Hamas Rejects UN Textbooks for Teaching Non-Violence*
www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-bashes-unrwas-human-rights-corriculum
... [in the books] refer to [Mahatma] Gandhi, Martin ... The Palestinian narrative was also ... the universal values that underpin the work of the United Nations. ...

*6000 Boys Graduate Palestinian Islamic Jihad Terrorist ...*
www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/6000-boys-graduate...
Aug 19, 2015 · The Iranian-backed Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist organization held a graduation ceremony Tuesday for the 6,000 Gaza boys who this summer attended …

*Kid Jihad” Summer Training Camp: Blood, Fire & AK-47’s ...*
patriotupdate.com/kid-jihad-summer-training-camp-blood-fire-ak-47s
Tens of thousands of Palestinian children hurried to register for Terrorists (summer) training camp 101 and to attend programs which indoctrinate the youngsters in ...

*Camp Jihad’: U.N.-Sponsored Camps Encourage Palestinian ...*
www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/14/camp-jihad-u-n-sponsored-camps...
Summer at United Nations-funded camps in Gaza and the northern West Bank include playing with parachutes, jumping on trampolines, and racing down inflatable slides.

*Islamic Jihad's Summer of Radicalization :: The ...*
www.investigativeproject.org/4046/islamic-jihad-summer-of...
Summer camp conjures up bucolic images of swimming and other outdoor fun. But thousands of Palestinian children will experience something quite different, as ...​Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> This is entirely wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course Palestinians are freedom fighters.  And, of course Israel has prevented the Palestinians from exercising their right of self-determination.
> 
> In terms of heroism, the Palestinians are facing far stronger oppression and have far fewer resources than had the ANC, hence they are probably more heroic given their continued restistance.
> 
> As far as violence, the Palestinians have followed the course that other national liberation movements have followed, like the ANC. The ANC's Charter for Umkhonto we Sizwe is remarkably similar to that of the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians have exercised the right of self-determination three times on 70 years, and the Israelis did not oppose them.  "Of course" they Israelis did not interfere with the Arab Palestinian right to self-determination.
> 
> The Palestinians have attacked unarmed, non-combatants, nationally and internationally, countless times.  They've attacked school children, the disabled, the aged, and the defenseless; many many times in the last 70 years.
> 
> Not all national liberation movements are honorable.  And clearly the major Arab Palestinian leaders of 1948, were cross-section ---  more being less honorable than others. These dishonorable leaders, with a history of serving the Ottoman/Turks and the WWII Germans in formal service and as enemy collaborators against the allied powers, have nothing to be proud of in terms of chivalry or a system of positive religious, moral, and social codes.  And this lack of chivalry, in the exercise of positive religious, moral, and social codes, has been passed down over several generations to parents that train their children to hate and pursue acts of terror and war for a cause that cannot be won.  These Hostile Arab Palestinians hold many of the characteristics of radical Islamic threats that are generally thought to be less than positive for the species and humanity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The Palestinians have exercised the right of self-determination three times on 70 years, and the Israelis did not oppose them.​
Full of crap, Rocco.

The right to self determination without external interference.​
Now when did that happen?


----------



## RoccoR

Humanity,  et al,

Like I've said many time in the past:

The is a vast difference between the Israelis that inflict inadvertent casualties while targeting Hostile Arab Palestinians --- and --- the intentional casualties the Hostiles Arab Palestinians have inflicted in the 70 years of attacks, ambushes, kidnappings, murders, piracies, hijackings, bombings and rocket launches against the aforementioned non-combatants.  
JUST SAYING​


Humanity said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have attacked unarmed, non-combatants, nationally and internationally, countless times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, pretty accurate, and every act is WRONG!
> 
> Likewise, Israel has and continues to attack unarmed, non-combatants, nationally and internationally, countless times.
> 
> Just saying!
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

As I have noted in previous discussions,  the Hostile Arab Palestinians have continuously argued that they have some special dispensation to commit war crimes and atrocities, and to ignore customary IHL, for which any of the other movement would be challenged.  And it is this Radicalized Islamic Resistance attitude _(seen in so many Islamic terrorist organizations)_ that needs to be reigned-in if the world is to become a safer place.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

OK lets talk "external interference."



P F Tinmore said:


> Full of crap, Rocco.
> 
> The right to self determination without external interference.​
> Now when did that happen?


(*COMMENT)*

Early in the Mandate Administration _(after the closure and hand-off by the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration)_, at least three attempts were made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  The Jewish did not interfere.

•  Throughout the last years of the Mandate Administration, powerful Arab influences and Hostile Palestinians attempted to circumvent the decisions made by the international community.  The Jewish did not interfere.

•  In 1950, the Arab Palestinians voted to become part of Jordan.  The Israelis did not interfere.

•  In 1988, the Hostile Arab Palestinians declared independence, for which the Israelis did not interfere.

•  The Hostile Arab Palestinians are always whining about some course of action they decided upon that did not workout; and they naturally assign fault to anyone but themselves.  The perpetual victims.

Prior to 1988, there was no power that the Arab Palestinians could call  "external interference" since there was no Arab Palestinians entity to which interference could impact.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians, through ineptitude, were unable to influence and establish their own self-governing institutions in a successful manner.​Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Try again as there is no such thing as the European parliament, so it cant pass any laws. The UK has refused to do this as it is against EU racism laws and many other European nations are doing the same.
> 
> What did Charlie habdo to do with the reprisals against muslim terrorists in gaza, showing once again that all muslims are psychopathic killers that need eliminating completely.
> 
> You are doing a very good job of demonising your fellow muslims and showing that you are a semi literate brainwashed terrorist supporter
> 
> 
> 
> Look UK and EU both forcing Israel that don't establish illegal settlement on land of Palestine and in this regards they are making laws you better checked it out. And as long as long what Charlie Habdo is to do with it. because jews used that situation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would think someone who lives in the UK would know more about this that someone who lives thousands of miles away. Still waiting for the proof that the settlements are all illegal, when the facts show that the land was Jewish prior to 1949 when they were forcibly evicted by the Palestinian muslims and their land stolen. There are no such laws in the UK as they would fall foul of the existing human rights laws and racism laws.  So the muslim terrorists murdered the innocents at Charlie Hebdo because the Jews might use the murders at a later date, are you trying hardtop be stupid ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> First Paris incident occur just after Israel killed 2000 innocent people and European were not happy with Israeli terror. And second incident occur after this bill passed by European parliament. While whole muslim world condemned the both incidents. Then who is behind the terror attack if all Muslim world rejecting it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what did the French have to do with the repercussions of the acts of war by hamas. The French did not drop any bombs on gaza, or fire at any hamas terrorists. If this is the case then France can drop bombs on Mecca and destroy the mosque there.  Did the French oppose this bill and declare that they would only buy from Israeli farms in the west bank, again this means that the French can now bomb gaza in return for the deaths of innocents in France. See were this is leading as very soon there would be no muslims left if the west employed Islamic measures and moralities.
> The muslims only condemned the attacks after they faces reprisals for them, which is common all over the world.  It is islam and its teachings in the koran that is to blame, does it not say terrorise those who will not bow down before me until there is only islam ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look phoney you are full of hate and you are earning by spreading hate, tell us how much you earned as propagandist.
Click to expand...







 Nothing at all as I tell the truth that is very easy to find on the internet and in public library's


----------



## Phoenall

Humanity said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have attacked unarmed, non-combatants, nationally and internationally, countless times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, pretty accurate, and every act is WRONG!
> 
> Likewise, Israel has and continues to attack unarmed, non-combatants, nationally and internationally, countless times.
> 
> Just saying!
Click to expand...





 LINK ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> This is entirely wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course Palestinians are freedom fighters.  And, of course Israel has prevented the Palestinians from exercising their right of self-determination.
> 
> In terms of heroism, the Palestinians are facing far stronger oppression and have far fewer resources than had the ANC, hence they are probably more heroic given their continued restistance.
> 
> As far as violence, the Palestinians have followed the course that other national liberation movements have followed, like the ANC. The ANC's Charter for Umkhonto we Sizwe is remarkably similar to that of the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians have exercised the right of self-determination three times on 70 years, and the Israelis did not oppose them.  "Of course" they Israelis did not interfere with the Arab Palestinian right to self-determination.
> 
> The Palestinians have attacked unarmed, non-combatants, nationally and internationally, countless times.  They've attacked school children, the disabled, the aged, and the defenseless; many many times in the last 70 years.
> 
> Not all national liberation movements are honorable.  And clearly the major Arab Palestinian leaders of 1948, were cross-section ---  more being less honorable than others. These dishonorable leaders, with a history of serving the Ottoman/Turks and the WWII Germans in formal service and as enemy collaborators against the allied powers, have nothing to be proud of in terms of chivalry or a system of positive religious, moral, and social codes.  And this lack of chivalry, in the exercise of positive religious, moral, and social codes, has been passed down over several generations to parents that train their children to hate and pursue acts of terror and war for a cause that cannot be won.  These Hostile Arab Palestinians hold many of the characteristics of radical Islamic threats that are generally thought to be less than positive for the species and humanity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have exercised the right of self-determination three times on 70 years, and the Israelis did not oppose them.​
> Full of crap, Rocco.
> 
> The right to self determination without external interference.​
> Now when did that happen?
Click to expand...






 1948, 1950 and 1988


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> OK lets talk "external interference."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Full of crap, Rocco.
> 
> The right to self determination without external interference.​
> Now when did that happen?
> 
> 
> 
> (*COMMENT)*
> 
> Early in the Mandate Administration _(after the closure and hand-off by the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration)_, at least three attempts were made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  The Jewish did not interfere.
> 
> •  Throughout the last years of the Mandate Administration, powerful Arab influences and Hostile Palestinians attempted to circumvent the decisions made by the international community.  The Jewish did not interfere.
> 
> •  In 1950, the Arab Palestinians voted to become part of Jordan.  The Israelis did not interfere.
> 
> •  In 1988, the Hostile Arab Palestinians declared independence, for which the Israelis did not interfere.
> 
> •  The Hostile Arab Palestinians are always whining about some course of action they decided upon that did not workout; and they naturally assign fault to anyone but themselves.  The perpetual victims.
> 
> Prior to 1988, there was no power that the Arab Palestinians could call  "external interference" since there was no Arab Palestinians entity to which interference could impact.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians, through ineptitude, were unable to influence and establish their own self-governing institutions in a successful manner.​Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Please explain how citizens of a territory defined by international borders have no rights.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

I think you need to re-read my posting.  I don't think I said that; or even implied that.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> OK lets talk "external interference."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Full of crap, Rocco.
> 
> The right to self determination without external interference.​
> Now when did that happen?
> 
> 
> 
> (*COMMENT)*
> 
> Early in the Mandate Administration _(after the closure and hand-off by the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration)_, at least three attempts were made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  The Jewish did not interfere.
> 
> •  Throughout the last years of the Mandate Administration, powerful Arab influences and Hostile Palestinians attempted to circumvent the decisions made by the international community.  The Jewish did not interfere.
> 
> •  In 1950, the Arab Palestinians voted to become part of Jordan.  The Israelis did not interfere.
> 
> •  In 1988, the Hostile Arab Palestinians declared independence, for which the Israelis did not interfere.
> 
> •  The Hostile Arab Palestinians are always whining about some course of action they decided upon that did not workout; and they naturally assign fault to anyone but themselves.  The perpetual victims.
> 
> Prior to 1988, there was no power that the Arab Palestinians could call  "external interference" since there was no Arab Palestinians entity to which interference could impact.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians, through ineptitude, were unable to influence and establish their own self-governing institutions in a successful manner.​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please explain how citizens of a territory defined by international borders have no rights.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I do not believe you will find anywhere - that says "citizens of a territory defined by international borders have no rights."  The "rights" were defined.  The question is: What "rights" are you suggesting they have?  What "rights" and where are they documented as applying? 

The internationally recognized border to the territory for which the Mandate Applied, outlined the Mandate Government as defined by the Council and Allied Powers.  It did not outline subdivisions like Transjordan _(as a Article 22_ _"Certain Communities"_).   And in those defined responsibilities and powers, it clearly states that the Mandatory was to protect _("safeguarding") _the "civil rights" and the "religious rights" of the inhabitants _(irrespective of race and religion)_.  Those are the only two "rights" that were mentioned and were not otherwise defined _alla _1922.  

While I do not think that the Mandate was to be interpreted totally within a strict compliance framework, the Mandate did stipulate that the authority, control or administration would be "explicitly defined by the Council of the League Of Nations."  And while "ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration." 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

RoccoR said:


> Humanity,  et al,
> 
> Like I've said many time in the past:
> 
> The is a vast difference between the Israelis that inflict inadvertent casualties while targeting Hostile Arab Palestinians --- and --- the intentional casualties the Hostiles Arab Palestinians have inflicted in the 70 years of attacks, ambushes, kidnappings, murders, piracies, hijackings, bombings and rocket launches against the aforementioned non-combatants.
> JUST SAYING​
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have attacked unarmed, non-combatants, nationally and internationally, countless times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, pretty accurate, and every act is WRONG!
> 
> Likewise, Israel has and continues to attack unarmed, non-combatants, nationally and internationally, countless times.
> 
> Just saying!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As I have noted in previous discussions,  the Hostile Arab Palestinians have continuously argued that they have some special dispensation to commit war crimes and atrocities, and to ignore customary IHL, for which any of the other movement would be challenged.  And it is this Radicalized Islamic Resistance attitude _(seen in so many Islamic terrorist organizations)_ that needs to be reigned-in if the world is to become a safer place.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


The Palestinians have the same rights to resist an oppressive colonizing regime as all previous people that have been in the same situation. What difference is there between the situation of the Palestinians and the native Irish in Ireland under British colonial occupation?  None.


----------



## Humanity

RoccoR said:


> The is a vast difference between the Israelis that inflict inadvertent casualties while targeting Hostile Arab Palestinians



Sorry Rocco...

I really cannot believe that you truly believe those words of yours!

"inadvertent casualties"....

Just how many "inadvertent casualties" do you think there may be from raining phosphorous bombs all over Gaza?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> OK lets talk "external interference."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Full of crap, Rocco.
> 
> The right to self determination without external interference.​
> Now when did that happen?
> 
> 
> 
> (*COMMENT)*
> 
> Early in the Mandate Administration _(after the closure and hand-off by the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration)_, at least three attempts were made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  The Jewish did not interfere.
> 
> •  Throughout the last years of the Mandate Administration, powerful Arab influences and Hostile Palestinians attempted to circumvent the decisions made by the international community.  The Jewish did not interfere.
> 
> •  In 1950, the Arab Palestinians voted to become part of Jordan.  The Israelis did not interfere.
> 
> •  In 1988, the Hostile Arab Palestinians declared independence, for which the Israelis did not interfere.
> 
> •  The Hostile Arab Palestinians are always whining about some course of action they decided upon that did not workout; and they naturally assign fault to anyone but themselves.  The perpetual victims.
> 
> Prior to 1988, there was no power that the Arab Palestinians could call  "external interference" since there was no Arab Palestinians entity to which interference could impact.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians, through ineptitude, were unable to influence and establish their own self-governing institutions in a successful manner.​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please explain how citizens of a territory defined by international borders have no rights.
Click to expand...






 Why don't your explain why in your world the Jews have no rights first, because they were the sovereign owners of Jewish Palestine. If your "Palestinians" want the rights you claim let them return to the territory they came from and fight for those rights. Or would is this what they are doing in Syria and getting murdered by a dictator and his Russian stooge.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity,  et al,
> 
> Like I've said many time in the past:
> 
> The is a vast difference between the Israelis that inflict inadvertent casualties while targeting Hostile Arab Palestinians --- and --- the intentional casualties the Hostiles Arab Palestinians have inflicted in the 70 years of attacks, ambushes, kidnappings, murders, piracies, hijackings, bombings and rocket launches against the aforementioned non-combatants.
> JUST SAYING​
> 
> 
> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have attacked unarmed, non-combatants, nationally and internationally, countless times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, pretty accurate, and every act is WRONG!
> 
> Likewise, Israel has and continues to attack unarmed, non-combatants, nationally and internationally, countless times.
> 
> Just saying!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As I have noted in previous discussions,  the Hostile Arab Palestinians have continuously argued that they have some special dispensation to commit war crimes and atrocities, and to ignore customary IHL, for which any of the other movement would be challenged.  And it is this Radicalized Islamic Resistance attitude _(seen in so many Islamic terrorist organizations)_ that needs to be reigned-in if the world is to become a safer place.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have the same rights to resist an oppressive colonizing regime as all previous people that have been in the same situation. What difference is there between the situation of the Palestinians and the native Irish in Ireland under British colonial occupation?  None.
Click to expand...






 Is Ireland united or is it still in two parts, with the northerly part being ruled by Britain. Demographics ruled the day and the minority Catholic terrorists were outvoted. Like all terrorists they threatened attacks on innocents again so the British security authorities should now pick them off one by one and demolish their homes.

 By the way you do realise that it is the Catholics that are the colonisers don't you.


----------



## Phoenall

Humanity said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The is a vast difference between the Israelis that inflict inadvertent casualties while targeting Hostile Arab Palestinians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Rocco...
> 
> I really cannot believe that you truly believe those words of yours!
> 
> "inadvertent casualties"....
> 
> Just how many "inadvertent casualties" do you think there may be from raining phosphorous bombs all over Gaza?
Click to expand...






So two incidents of W.P. used in accordance with international law is now " raining phosphorous bombs all over Gaza "  How many casualties do you think are as a result or war crimes by hamas and other Palestinians that you seem to constantly ignore ?


----------



## Humanity

Phoenall said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The is a vast difference between the Israelis that inflict inadvertent casualties while targeting Hostile Arab Palestinians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Rocco...
> 
> I really cannot believe that you truly believe those words of yours!
> 
> "inadvertent casualties"....
> 
> Just how many "inadvertent casualties" do you think there may be from raining phosphorous bombs all over Gaza?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So two incidents of W.P. used in accordance with international law is now " raining phosphorous bombs all over Gaza "  How many casualties do you think are as a result or war crimes by hamas and other Palestinians that you seem to constantly ignore ?
Click to expand...


Strangely enough, if you could be bothered to open your eyes and mind and read rather than make your own shit up... I do not support Hamas, neither do I support their acts of terrorism... You will have seen, if you could be bothered to read than make shit up that I denounce Hamas as much as I denounce Israel!

I pity you for being such a dickhead and not being able to read what is put in front of you!

And to answer your question...

A very small fraction of people when compared to Israel! No, I know you won't like that answer, however, you cannot argue against facts and figures...

Don't bother responding to this post, I know it will be full of zionut BS and Islamophobic hatred!


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I think you need to re-read my posting.  I don't think I said that; or even implied that.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> OK lets talk "external interference."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Full of crap, Rocco.
> 
> The right to self determination without external interference.​
> Now when did that happen?
> 
> 
> 
> (*COMMENT)*
> 
> Early in the Mandate Administration _(after the closure and hand-off by the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration)_, at least three attempts were made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  The Jewish did not interfere.
> 
> •  Throughout the last years of the Mandate Administration, powerful Arab influences and Hostile Palestinians attempted to circumvent the decisions made by the international community.  The Jewish did not interfere.
> 
> •  In 1950, the Arab Palestinians voted to become part of Jordan.  The Israelis did not interfere.
> 
> •  In 1988, the Hostile Arab Palestinians declared independence, for which the Israelis did not interfere.
> 
> •  The Hostile Arab Palestinians are always whining about some course of action they decided upon that did not workout; and they naturally assign fault to anyone but themselves.  The perpetual victims.
> 
> Prior to 1988, there was no power that the Arab Palestinians could call  "external interference" since there was no Arab Palestinians entity to which interference could impact.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians, through ineptitude, were unable to influence and establish their own self-governing institutions in a successful manner.​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please explain how citizens of a territory defined by international borders have no rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I do not believe you will find anywhere - that says "citizens of a territory defined by international borders have no rights."  The "rights" were defined.  The question is: What "rights" are you suggesting they have?  What "rights" and where are they documented as applying?
> 
> The internationally recognized border to the territory for which the Mandate Applied, outlined the Mandate Government as defined by the Council and Allied Powers.  It did not outline subdivisions like Transjordan _(as a Article 22_ _"Certain Communities"_).   And in those defined responsibilities and powers, it clearly states that the Mandatory was to protect _("safeguarding") _the "civil rights" and the "religious rights" of the inhabitants _(irrespective of race and religion)_.  Those are the only two "rights" that were mentioned and were not otherwise defined _alla _1922.
> 
> While I do not think that the Mandate was to be interpreted totally within a strict compliance framework, the Mandate did stipulate that the authority, control or administration would be "explicitly defined by the Council of the League Of Nations."  And while "ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Let's get a point straight. Is it that the Palestinian's rights were violated, or is it that the Palestinians just had no rights?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I think you need to re-read my posting.  I don't think I said that; or even implied that.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> OK lets talk "external interference."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Full of crap, Rocco.
> 
> The right to self determination without external interference.​
> Now when did that happen?
> 
> 
> 
> (*COMMENT)*
> 
> Early in the Mandate Administration _(after the closure and hand-off by the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration)_, at least three attempts were made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  The Jewish did not interfere.
> 
> •  Throughout the last years of the Mandate Administration, powerful Arab influences and Hostile Palestinians attempted to circumvent the decisions made by the international community.  The Jewish did not interfere.
> 
> •  In 1950, the Arab Palestinians voted to become part of Jordan.  The Israelis did not interfere.
> 
> •  In 1988, the Hostile Arab Palestinians declared independence, for which the Israelis did not interfere.
> 
> •  The Hostile Arab Palestinians are always whining about some course of action they decided upon that did not workout; and they naturally assign fault to anyone but themselves.  The perpetual victims.
> 
> Prior to 1988, there was no power that the Arab Palestinians could call  "external interference" since there was no Arab Palestinians entity to which interference could impact.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians, through ineptitude, were unable to influence and establish their own self-governing institutions in a successful manner.​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please explain how citizens of a territory defined by international borders have no rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I do not believe you will find anywhere - that says "citizens of a territory defined by international borders have no rights."  The "rights" were defined.  The question is: What "rights" are you suggesting they have?  What "rights" and where are they documented as applying?
> 
> The internationally recognized border to the territory for which the Mandate Applied, outlined the Mandate Government as defined by the Council and Allied Powers.  It did not outline subdivisions like Transjordan _(as a Article 22_ _"Certain Communities"_).   And in those defined responsibilities and powers, it clearly states that the Mandatory was to protect _("safeguarding") _the "civil rights" and the "religious rights" of the inhabitants _(irrespective of race and religion)_.  Those are the only two "rights" that were mentioned and were not otherwise defined _alla _1922.
> 
> While I do not think that the Mandate was to be interpreted totally within a strict compliance framework, the Mandate did stipulate that the authority, control or administration would be "explicitly defined by the Council of the League Of Nations."  And while "ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's get a point straight. Is it that the Palestinian's rights were violated, or is it that the Palestinians just had no rights?
Click to expand...







 They had the same rights as everyone else did in 1917, until their leaders signed them away in the surrender treaties. So in effect they became stateless and landless vagabonds with no right to anything.

 What rights did the Germans have after 1919 when they surrendered, or the Jews in 1933 to 1945 when they were mass murdered ?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I think you need to re-read my posting.  I don't think I said that; or even implied that.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> OK lets talk "external interference."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Full of crap, Rocco.
> 
> The right to self determination without external interference.​
> Now when did that happen?
> 
> 
> 
> (*COMMENT)*
> 
> Early in the Mandate Administration _(after the closure and hand-off by the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration)_, at least three attempts were made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  The Jewish did not interfere.
> 
> •  Throughout the last years of the Mandate Administration, powerful Arab influences and Hostile Palestinians attempted to circumvent the decisions made by the international community.  The Jewish did not interfere.
> 
> •  In 1950, the Arab Palestinians voted to become part of Jordan.  The Israelis did not interfere.
> 
> •  In 1988, the Hostile Arab Palestinians declared independence, for which the Israelis did not interfere.
> 
> •  The Hostile Arab Palestinians are always whining about some course of action they decided upon that did not workout; and they naturally assign fault to anyone but themselves.  The perpetual victims.
> 
> Prior to 1988, there was no power that the Arab Palestinians could call  "external interference" since there was no Arab Palestinians entity to which interference could impact.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians, through ineptitude, were unable to influence and establish their own self-governing institutions in a successful manner.​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please explain how citizens of a territory defined by international borders have no rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I do not believe you will find anywhere - that says "citizens of a territory defined by international borders have no rights."  The "rights" were defined.  The question is: What "rights" are you suggesting they have?  What "rights" and where are they documented as applying?
> 
> The internationally recognized border to the territory for which the Mandate Applied, outlined the Mandate Government as defined by the Council and Allied Powers.  It did not outline subdivisions like Transjordan _(as a Article 22_ _"Certain Communities"_).   And in those defined responsibilities and powers, it clearly states that the Mandatory was to protect _("safeguarding") _the "civil rights" and the "religious rights" of the inhabitants _(irrespective of race and religion)_.  Those are the only two "rights" that were mentioned and were not otherwise defined _alla _1922.
> 
> While I do not think that the Mandate was to be interpreted totally within a strict compliance framework, the Mandate did stipulate that the authority, control or administration would be "explicitly defined by the Council of the League Of Nations."  And while "ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's get a point straight. Is it that the Palestinian's rights were violated, or is it that the Palestinians just had no rights?
Click to expand...

Indeed, none of the above, actually. Through ineptitude and incompetence, the Pal'istanians were unable and unwilling to cobble together a functioning society.


----------



## Humanity

Phoenall said:


> By the way you do realise that it is the Catholics that are the colonisers don't you.



Oh? How so?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I think you need to re-read my posting.  I don't think I said that; or even implied that.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> OK lets talk "external interference."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Full of crap, Rocco.
> 
> The right to self determination without external interference.​
> Now when did that happen?
> 
> 
> 
> (*COMMENT)*
> 
> Early in the Mandate Administration _(after the closure and hand-off by the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration)_, at least three attempts were made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  The Jewish did not interfere.
> 
> •  Throughout the last years of the Mandate Administration, powerful Arab influences and Hostile Palestinians attempted to circumvent the decisions made by the international community.  The Jewish did not interfere.
> 
> •  In 1950, the Arab Palestinians voted to become part of Jordan.  The Israelis did not interfere.
> 
> •  In 1988, the Hostile Arab Palestinians declared independence, for which the Israelis did not interfere.
> 
> •  The Hostile Arab Palestinians are always whining about some course of action they decided upon that did not workout; and they naturally assign fault to anyone but themselves.  The perpetual victims.
> 
> Prior to 1988, there was no power that the Arab Palestinians could call  "external interference" since there was no Arab Palestinians entity to which interference could impact.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians, through ineptitude, were unable to influence and establish their own self-governing institutions in a successful manner.​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please explain how citizens of a territory defined by international borders have no rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I do not believe you will find anywhere - that says "citizens of a territory defined by international borders have no rights."  The "rights" were defined.  The question is: What "rights" are you suggesting they have?  What "rights" and where are they documented as applying?
> 
> The internationally recognized border to the territory for which the Mandate Applied, outlined the Mandate Government as defined by the Council and Allied Powers.  It did not outline subdivisions like Transjordan _(as a Article 22_ _"Certain Communities"_).   And in those defined responsibilities and powers, it clearly states that the Mandatory was to protect _("safeguarding") _the "civil rights" and the "religious rights" of the inhabitants _(irrespective of race and religion)_.  Those are the only two "rights" that were mentioned and were not otherwise defined _alla _1922.
> 
> While I do not think that the Mandate was to be interpreted totally within a strict compliance framework, the Mandate did stipulate that the authority, control or administration would be "explicitly defined by the Council of the League Of Nations."  And while "ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's get a point straight. Is it that the Palestinian's rights were violated, or is it that the Palestinians just had no rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They had the same rights as everyone else did in 1917, until their leaders signed them away in the surrender treaties. So in effect they became stateless and landless vagabonds with no right to anything.
> 
> What rights did the Germans have after 1919 when they surrendered, or the Jews in 1933 to 1945 when they were mass murdered ?
Click to expand...

They had the same rights as everyone else did in 1917, until their leaders signed them away in the surrender treaties.​
Link?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

OK, let's get is Straight:



P F Tinmore said:


> Let's get a point straight. Is it that the Palestinian's rights were violated, or is it that the Palestinians just had no rights?


*(REFERENCE)*

In the period between 1919 and 1922, when the basic decisions were made, the matter of "rights" were addressed in the Mandate for Palestine:

*PREAMBLE*
Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country;

*ARTICLE 2*
The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.

*ARTICLE 15*
The right of each community to maintain its own schools for the education of its own members in its own language, while conforming to such educational requirements of a general nature as the Administration may impose, shall not be denied or impaired.

*ARTICLE 28*
In the event of the termination of the mandate hereby conferred upon the Mandatory, the Council of the League of Nations shall make such arrangements as may be deemed necessary for safeguarding in perpetuity, under guarantee of the League, the rights secured by Articles 13 and 14, and shall use its influence for securing, under the guarantee of the League, that the Government of Palestine will fully honour the financial obligations legitimately incurred by the Administration of Palestine during the period of the mandate, including the rights of public servants to pensions or gratuities.

*•  ARTICLE 13*
All responsibility in connection with the Holy Places and religious buildings or sites in Palestine, including that of preserving existing rights and of securing free access to the Holy Places, religious buildings and sites and the free exercise of worship, while ensuring the requirements of public order and decorum, is assumed by the Mandatory, who shall be responsible solely to the League of Nations in all matters connected herewith, provided that nothing in this article shall prevent the Mandatory from entering into such arrangements as he may deem reasonable with the Administration for the purpose of carrying the provisions of this article into effect; and provided also that nothing in this mandate shall be construed as conferring upon the Mandatory authority to interfere with the fabric or the management of purely Moslem sacred shrines, the immunities of which are guaranteed.

*•  ARTICLE 14*
A special commission shall be appointed by the Mandatory to study, define and determine the rights and claims in connection with the Holy Places and the rights and claims relating to the different religious communities in Palestine. The method of nomination, the composition and the functions of this Commission shall be submitted to the Council of the League for its approval, and the Commission shall not be appointed or enter upon its functions without the approval of the Council.​
*(COMMENT)*

But in period 1919 and the end of the Mandate, the entire population of the Territory under the Mandate of Palestine, were granted citizenship to the Territory.  However, even General Assembly Resolution 194 (III) did not grant and "rights."  The Resolution (Paragraph 11) made recommendations pertaining to: addressed the Issue of refugees and compensation for those whose property was lost or damaged. (“Compensation --- for those who did not wish to return --- should be paid for the property … and for loss of or damage to property.")

Right of Return was not guarantee as an _unconditional _Right of Return.
Recommendations conditional:

1. That they be willing to live in peace with their neighbors.

2. That the return takes place “at the earliest practicable date.”​Not until the non-binding Resolution 10 December 1948, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights _(UDHR --- first global expression)_, did additional rights become considered; and it was not until the adoption of International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), and International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR), both created in 1966 and its passage into force _(law)_ in 1976 _(a decade after the Arab-Israeli War 1967)_.  It should be noted that nothing in the UDHR, ICCPR or ECESCR can be a retroactive proscription. _ (CONCEPT:  A law that operates to make criminal or punishable or in any way expressly affects an act done prior to the passing of the law.)_

*(REMEMBER)*

The proclamation clause at the end of the preamble makes clear, however, that the Declaration as such does not create binding legal obligations.   The term “declaration” has since been officially defined by the U.N. Secretariat as: “a formal and solemn instrument, suitable for rare occasions when principles of great and lasting significance are being enunciated.” UN Doc. E/CN.4/L.610 (1962). Though not legally binding, a declaration “may by custom become recognized as laying down rules binding upon States.”   While not binding _per se_, soft law instruments may not only deploy important legal consequences, but also be as effective as «hard law».  The UNHRC attempts to do this by interlacing the UDHR with the ICCPR and the ICESCR - creating the a single concept _(collectively known as the Bill of Human Rights)_.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> OK, let's get is Straight:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's get a point straight. Is it that the Palestinian's rights were violated, or is it that the Palestinians just had no rights?
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> In the period between 1919 and 1922, when the basic decisions were made, the matter of "rights" were addressed in the Mandate for Palestine:
> 
> *PREAMBLE*
> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country;
> 
> *ARTICLE 2*
> The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
> 
> *ARTICLE 15*
> The right of each community to maintain its own schools for the education of its own members in its own language, while conforming to such educational requirements of a general nature as the Administration may impose, shall not be denied or impaired.
> 
> *ARTICLE 28*
> In the event of the termination of the mandate hereby conferred upon the Mandatory, the Council of the League of Nations shall make such arrangements as may be deemed necessary for safeguarding in perpetuity, under guarantee of the League, the rights secured by Articles 13 and 14, and shall use its influence for securing, under the guarantee of the League, that the Government of Palestine will fully honour the financial obligations legitimately incurred by the Administration of Palestine during the period of the mandate, including the rights of public servants to pensions or gratuities.
> 
> *•  ARTICLE 13*
> All responsibility in connection with the Holy Places and religious buildings or sites in Palestine, including that of preserving existing rights and of securing free access to the Holy Places, religious buildings and sites and the free exercise of worship, while ensuring the requirements of public order and decorum, is assumed by the Mandatory, who shall be responsible solely to the League of Nations in all matters connected herewith, provided that nothing in this article shall prevent the Mandatory from entering into such arrangements as he may deem reasonable with the Administration for the purpose of carrying the provisions of this article into effect; and provided also that nothing in this mandate shall be construed as conferring upon the Mandatory authority to interfere with the fabric or the management of purely Moslem sacred shrines, the immunities of which are guaranteed.
> 
> *•  ARTICLE 14*
> A special commission shall be appointed by the Mandatory to study, define and determine the rights and claims in connection with the Holy Places and the rights and claims relating to the different religious communities in Palestine. The method of nomination, the composition and the functions of this Commission shall be submitted to the Council of the League for its approval, and the Commission shall not be appointed or enter upon its functions without the approval of the Council.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But in period 1919 and the end of the Mandate, the entire population of the Territory under the Mandate of Palestine, were granted citizenship to the Territory.  However, even General Assembly Resolution 194 (III) did not grant and "rights."  The Resolution (Paragraph 11) made recommendations pertaining to: addressed the Issue of refugees and compensation for those whose property was lost or damaged. (“Compensation --- for those who did not wish to return --- should be paid for the property … and for loss of or damage to property.")
> 
> Right of Return was not guarantee as an _unconditional _Right of Return.
> Recommendations conditional:
> 
> 1. That they be willing to live in peace with their neighbors.
> 
> 2. That the return takes place “at the earliest practicable date.”​Not until the non-binding Resolution 10 December 1948, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights _(UDHR --- first global expression)_, did additional rights become considered; and it was not until the adoption of International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), and International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR), both created in 1966 and its passage into force _(law)_ in 1976 _(a decade after the Arab-Israeli War 1967)_.  It should be noted that nothing in the UDHR, ICCPR or ECESCR can be a retroactive proscription. _ (CONCEPT:  A law that operates to make criminal or punishable or in any way expressly affects an act done prior to the passing of the law.)_
> 
> *(REMEMBER)*
> 
> The proclamation clause at the end of the preamble makes clear, however, that the Declaration as such does not create binding legal obligations.   The term “declaration” has since been officially defined by the U.N. Secretariat as: “a formal and solemn instrument, suitable for rare occasions when principles of great and lasting significance are being enunciated.” UN Doc. E/CN.4/L.610 (1962). Though not legally binding, a declaration “may by custom become recognized as laying down rules binding upon States.”   While not binding _per se_, soft law instruments may not only deploy important legal consequences, but also be as effective as «hard law».  The UNHRC attempts to do this by interlacing the UDHR with the ICCPR and the ICESCR - creating the a single concept _(collectively known as the Bill of Human Rights)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

What part of all that answers my questions?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

All of it.



P F Tinmore said:


> What part of all that answers my questions?


*(COMMENT)*

It itemizes the rights you asked about, documents them, and evaluate them in terms of Pre-1948 obligations, Post-1948. then Post-1976.

With the exception of "self-determination" which was not promised until 1945 (but still under Mandate), the Arab Palestinians had limited rights.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> All of it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of all that answers my questions?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It itemizes the rights you asked about, documents them, and evaluate them in terms of Pre-1948 obligations, Post-1948. then Post-1976.
> 
> With the exception of "self-determination" which was not promised until 1945 (but still under Mandate), the Arab Palestinians had limited rights.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

OK, but:

_A/RES/*3236* (XXIX)
22 November 1974​_
*Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,*

_Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

*1. Reaffirms* the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people *in Palestine,* including:

(_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

*2. *_*Reaffirms* also_ the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;

3. _Emphasizes_ that full respect for and the realization of these *inalienable rights of the Palestinian people* are indispensable for the solution of the question of Palestine;

4. _Recognizes_ that the Palestinian people is a principal party in the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East;

5. _Further recognizes_ the right of the Palestinian people to regain its rights by all means in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations;

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
Resolution 3236 states that Palestinians have inalienable rights and that these rights pre date the resolution.

At what time and under what circumstances did the Palestinians obtain these rights?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

All the term "inalienable rights" means that:  The right(s) are unable to be taken away from or given away by the possessor.  It does not actually define the right _(what it is a right to)_.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> All of it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of all that answers my questions?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It itemizes the rights you asked about, documents them, and evaluate them in terms of Pre-1948 obligations, Post-1948. then Post-1976.
> 
> With the exception of "self-determination" which was not promised until 1945 (but still under Mandate), the Arab Palestinians had limited rights.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but:
> 
> At what time and under what circumstances did the Palestinians obtain these rights?
Click to expand...


*(COMMENT)*

Actually, that was the question I posed to you.  You claim that there is a "LAW" --- "TREATY" --- "BINDING RESOLUTION" or something that stipulates the Palestinians "obtain these rights."   I say there is not.  I can not prove your case.

While there is Article 13(2) of the UDHR that says "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country."  BUT, Israel is not the Palestinians country.  Under the right of self-determination, and the fact that the Arab Palestinian rejected opportunities for self governing institutions, I can find no foundation to base your assertion.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> All the term "inalienable rights" means that:  The right(s) are unable to be taken away from or given away by the possessor.  It does not actually define the right _(what it is a right to)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> All of it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of all that answers my questions?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It itemizes the rights you asked about, documents them, and evaluate them in terms of Pre-1948 obligations, Post-1948. then Post-1976.
> 
> With the exception of "self-determination" which was not promised until 1945 (but still under Mandate), the Arab Palestinians had limited rights.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but:
> 
> At what time and under what circumstances did the Palestinians obtain these rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Actually, that was the question I posed to you.  You claim that there is a "LAW" --- "TREATY" --- "BINDING RESOLUTION" or something that stipulates the Palestinians "obtain these rights."   I say there is not.  I can not prove your case.
> 
> While there is Article 13(2) of the UDHR that says "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country."  BUT, Israel is not the Palestinians country.  Under the right of self-determination, and the fact that the Arab Palestinian rejected opportunities for self governing institutions, I can find no foundation to base your assertion.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Under the right of self-determination, and the fact that the Arab Palestinian rejected opportunities for self governing institutions,​
No they didn't.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> All the term "inalienable rights" means that:  The right(s) are unable to be taken away from or given away by the possessor.  It does not actually define the right _(what it is a right to)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> All of it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of all that answers my questions?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It itemizes the rights you asked about, documents them, and evaluate them in terms of Pre-1948 obligations, Post-1948. then Post-1976.
> 
> With the exception of "self-determination" which was not promised until 1945 (but still under Mandate), the Arab Palestinians had limited rights.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but:
> 
> At what time and under what circumstances did the Palestinians obtain these rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Actually, that was the question I posed to you.  You claim that there is a "LAW" --- "TREATY" --- "BINDING RESOLUTION" or something that stipulates the Palestinians "obtain these rights."   I say there is not.  I can not prove your case.
> 
> While there is Article 13(2) of the UDHR that says "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country."  BUT, Israel is not the Palestinians country.  Under the right of self-determination, and the fact that the Arab Palestinian rejected opportunities for self governing institutions, I can find no foundation to base your assertion.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

"Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country." BUT, Israel is not the Palestinians country.​
OK but resolution 181 (which reiterates international law) states that all Palestinians whose normal residence is in the territory that becomes the Jewish state will be citizens of that state. And besides, the resolution states "return to their homes and property" not to Palestine.

So, your statement is only to deceive or at least incorrect.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

OH come now.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> All the term "inalienable rights" means that:  The right(s) are unable to be taken away from or given away by the possessor.  It does not actually define the right _(what it is a right to)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> All of it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of all that answers my questions?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It itemizes the rights you asked about, documents them, and evaluate them in terms of Pre-1948 obligations, Post-1948. then Post-1976.
> 
> With the exception of "self-determination" which was not promised until 1945 (but still under Mandate), the Arab Palestinians had limited rights.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but:
> 
> At what time and under what circumstances did the Palestinians obtain these rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Actually, that was the question I posed to you.  You claim that there is a "LAW" --- "TREATY" --- "BINDING RESOLUTION" or something that stipulates the Palestinians "obtain these rights."   I say there is not.  I can not prove your case.
> 
> While there is Article 13(2) of the UDHR that says "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country."  BUT, Israel is not the Palestinians country.  Under the right of self-determination, and the fact that the Arab Palestinian rejected opportunities for self governing institutions, I can find no foundation to base your assertion.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country." BUT, Israel is not the Palestinians country.​
> OK but resolution 181 (which reiterates international law) states that all Palestinians whose normal residence is in the territory that becomes the Jewish state will be citizens of that state. And besides, the resolution states "return to their homes and property" not to Palestine.
> 
> So, your statement is only to deceive or at least incorrect.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Resolution is an offer with no acceptance by the Arab Palestinian.  It is not a binding resolution.  The Arab rejection has consequences.

There is no binding resolution or law, that stipulates: "return to their homes and property" not to Palestine.  There are "non-binding resolutions, but the Arab Palestinians rejected every opportunity to participate.

Only the residents of the territory that becomes the Jewish State of Israel becomes an Israeli Citizen.  But again, the Arab Palestinian rejected Resolution 181. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> OH come now.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> All the term "inalienable rights" means that:  The right(s) are unable to be taken away from or given away by the possessor.  It does not actually define the right _(what it is a right to)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> All of it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of all that answers my questions?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It itemizes the rights you asked about, documents them, and evaluate them in terms of Pre-1948 obligations, Post-1948. then Post-1976.
> 
> With the exception of "self-determination" which was not promised until 1945 (but still under Mandate), the Arab Palestinians had limited rights.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but:
> 
> At what time and under what circumstances did the Palestinians obtain these rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Actually, that was the question I posed to you.  You claim that there is a "LAW" --- "TREATY" --- "BINDING RESOLUTION" or something that stipulates the Palestinians "obtain these rights."   I say there is not.  I can not prove your case.
> 
> While there is Article 13(2) of the UDHR that says "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country."  BUT, Israel is not the Palestinians country.  Under the right of self-determination, and the fact that the Arab Palestinian rejected opportunities for self governing institutions, I can find no foundation to base your assertion.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country." BUT, Israel is not the Palestinians country.​
> OK but resolution 181 (which reiterates international law) states that all Palestinians whose normal residence is in the territory that becomes the Jewish state will be citizens of that state. And besides, the resolution states "return to their homes and property" not to Palestine.
> 
> So, your statement is only to deceive or at least incorrect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Resolution is an offer with no acceptance by the Arab Palestinian.  It is not a binding resolution.  The Arab rejection has consequences.
> 
> There is no binding resolution or law, that stipulates: "return to their homes and property" not to Palestine.  There are "non-binding resolutions, but the Arab Palestinians rejected every opportunity to participate.
> 
> Only the residents of the territory that becomes the Jewish State of Israel becomes an Israeli Citizen.  But again, the Arab Palestinian rejected Resolution 181.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

"Only the residents of the territory that becomes the Jewish State of Israel becomes an Israeli Citizen.  But again, the Arab Palestinian rejected Resolution 181."

The residents of the territory that became the Jewish state were 45% non-Jews before they were evicted.


----------



## Phoenall

Humanity said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> By the way you do realise that it is the Catholics that are the colonisers don't you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh? How so?
Click to expand...





 Try reading some history as no Catholics existed until they colonised other regions


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I think you need to re-read my posting.  I don't think I said that; or even implied that.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> OK lets talk "external interference."
> 
> (*COMMENT)*
> 
> Early in the Mandate Administration _(after the closure and hand-off by the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration)_, at least three attempts were made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  The Jewish did not interfere.
> 
> •  Throughout the last years of the Mandate Administration, powerful Arab influences and Hostile Palestinians attempted to circumvent the decisions made by the international community.  The Jewish did not interfere.
> 
> •  In 1950, the Arab Palestinians voted to become part of Jordan.  The Israelis did not interfere.
> 
> •  In 1988, the Hostile Arab Palestinians declared independence, for which the Israelis did not interfere.
> 
> •  The Hostile Arab Palestinians are always whining about some course of action they decided upon that did not workout; and they naturally assign fault to anyone but themselves.  The perpetual victims.
> 
> Prior to 1988, there was no power that the Arab Palestinians could call  "external interference" since there was no Arab Palestinians entity to which interference could impact.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians, through ineptitude, were unable to influence and establish their own self-governing institutions in a successful manner.​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Please explain how citizens of a territory defined by international borders have no rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I do not believe you will find anywhere - that says "citizens of a territory defined by international borders have no rights."  The "rights" were defined.  The question is: What "rights" are you suggesting they have?  What "rights" and where are they documented as applying?
> 
> The internationally recognized border to the territory for which the Mandate Applied, outlined the Mandate Government as defined by the Council and Allied Powers.  It did not outline subdivisions like Transjordan _(as a Article 22_ _"Certain Communities"_).   And in those defined responsibilities and powers, it clearly states that the Mandatory was to protect _("safeguarding") _the "civil rights" and the "religious rights" of the inhabitants _(irrespective of race and religion)_.  Those are the only two "rights" that were mentioned and were not otherwise defined _alla _1922.
> 
> While I do not think that the Mandate was to be interpreted totally within a strict compliance framework, the Mandate did stipulate that the authority, control or administration would be "explicitly defined by the Council of the League Of Nations."  And while "ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's get a point straight. Is it that the Palestinian's rights were violated, or is it that the Palestinians just had no rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They had the same rights as everyone else did in 1917, until their leaders signed them away in the surrender treaties. So in effect they became stateless and landless vagabonds with no right to anything.
> 
> What rights did the Germans have after 1919 when they surrendered, or the Jews in 1933 to 1945 when they were mass murdered ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They had the same rights as everyone else did in 1917, until their leaders signed them away in the surrender treaties.​
> Link?
Click to expand...







Treaty of Sèvres - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Treaty of Lausanne - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> OH come now.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> All the term "inalienable rights" means that:  The right(s) are unable to be taken away from or given away by the possessor.  It does not actually define the right _(what it is a right to)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> All of it.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It itemizes the rights you asked about, documents them, and evaluate them in terms of Pre-1948 obligations, Post-1948. then Post-1976.
> 
> With the exception of "self-determination" which was not promised until 1945 (but still under Mandate), the Arab Palestinians had limited rights.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but:
> 
> At what time and under what circumstances did the Palestinians obtain these rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Actually, that was the question I posed to you.  You claim that there is a "LAW" --- "TREATY" --- "BINDING RESOLUTION" or something that stipulates the Palestinians "obtain these rights."   I say there is not.  I can not prove your case.
> 
> While there is Article 13(2) of the UDHR that says "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country."  BUT, Israel is not the Palestinians country.  Under the right of self-determination, and the fact that the Arab Palestinian rejected opportunities for self governing institutions, I can find no foundation to base your assertion.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country." BUT, Israel is not the Palestinians country.​
> OK but resolution 181 (which reiterates international law) states that all Palestinians whose normal residence is in the territory that becomes the Jewish state will be citizens of that state. And besides, the resolution states "return to their homes and property" not to Palestine.
> 
> So, your statement is only to deceive or at least incorrect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Resolution is an offer with no acceptance by the Arab Palestinian.  It is not a binding resolution.  The Arab rejection has consequences.
> 
> There is no binding resolution or law, that stipulates: "return to their homes and property" not to Palestine.  There are "non-binding resolutions, but the Arab Palestinians rejected every opportunity to participate.
> 
> Only the residents of the territory that becomes the Jewish State of Israel becomes an Israeli Citizen.  But again, the Arab Palestinian rejected Resolution 181.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Only the residents of the territory that becomes the Jewish State of Israel becomes an Israeli Citizen.  But again, the Arab Palestinian rejected Resolution 181."
> 
> The residents of the territory that became the Jewish state were 45% non-Jews before they were evicted.
Click to expand...






 And if they had not taken up arms against Israel they would now be Israeli citizens, but you cant see that can you.

 Only one problem with your figures they are not provable as the source is the same for every report, a biased anti semitic committee


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> OK, let's get is Straight:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's get a point straight. Is it that the Palestinian's rights were violated, or is it that the Palestinians just had no rights?
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> In the period between 1919 and 1922, when the basic decisions were made, the matter of "rights" were addressed in the Mandate for Palestine:
> 
> *PREAMBLE*
> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country;
> 
> *ARTICLE 2*
> The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
> 
> *ARTICLE 15*
> The right of each community to maintain its own schools for the education of its own members in its own language, while conforming to such educational requirements of a general nature as the Administration may impose, shall not be denied or impaired.
> 
> *ARTICLE 28*
> In the event of the termination of the mandate hereby conferred upon the Mandatory, the Council of the League of Nations shall make such arrangements as may be deemed necessary for safeguarding in perpetuity, under guarantee of the League, the rights secured by Articles 13 and 14, and shall use its influence for securing, under the guarantee of the League, that the Government of Palestine will fully honour the financial obligations legitimately incurred by the Administration of Palestine during the period of the mandate, including the rights of public servants to pensions or gratuities.
> 
> *•  ARTICLE 13*
> All responsibility in connection with the Holy Places and religious buildings or sites in Palestine, including that of preserving existing rights and of securing free access to the Holy Places, religious buildings and sites and the free exercise of worship, while ensuring the requirements of public order and decorum, is assumed by the Mandatory, who shall be responsible solely to the League of Nations in all matters connected herewith, provided that nothing in this article shall prevent the Mandatory from entering into such arrangements as he may deem reasonable with the Administration for the purpose of carrying the provisions of this article into effect; and provided also that nothing in this mandate shall be construed as conferring upon the Mandatory authority to interfere with the fabric or the management of purely Moslem sacred shrines, the immunities of which are guaranteed.
> 
> *•  ARTICLE 14*
> A special commission shall be appointed by the Mandatory to study, define and determine the rights and claims in connection with the Holy Places and the rights and claims relating to the different religious communities in Palestine. The method of nomination, the composition and the functions of this Commission shall be submitted to the Council of the League for its approval, and the Commission shall not be appointed or enter upon its functions without the approval of the Council.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But in period 1919 and the end of the Mandate, the entire population of the Territory under the Mandate of Palestine, were granted citizenship to the Territory.  However, even General Assembly Resolution 194 (III) did not grant and "rights."  The Resolution (Paragraph 11) made recommendations pertaining to: addressed the Issue of refugees and compensation for those whose property was lost or damaged. (“Compensation --- for those who did not wish to return --- should be paid for the property … and for loss of or damage to property.")
> 
> Right of Return was not guarantee as an _unconditional _Right of Return.
> Recommendations conditional:
> 
> 1. That they be willing to live in peace with their neighbors.
> 
> 2. That the return takes place “at the earliest practicable date.”​Not until the non-binding Resolution 10 December 1948, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights _(UDHR --- first global expression)_, did additional rights become considered; and it was not until the adoption of International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), and International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR), both created in 1966 and its passage into force _(law)_ in 1976 _(a decade after the Arab-Israeli War 1967)_.  It should be noted that nothing in the UDHR, ICCPR or ECESCR can be a retroactive proscription. _ (CONCEPT:  A law that operates to make criminal or punishable or in any way expressly affects an act done prior to the passing of the law.)_
> 
> *(REMEMBER)*
> 
> The proclamation clause at the end of the preamble makes clear, however, that the Declaration as such does not create binding legal obligations.   The term “declaration” has since been officially defined by the U.N. Secretariat as: “a formal and solemn instrument, suitable for rare occasions when principles of great and lasting significance are being enunciated.” UN Doc. E/CN.4/L.610 (1962). Though not legally binding, a declaration “may by custom become recognized as laying down rules binding upon States.”   While not binding _per se_, soft law instruments may not only deploy important legal consequences, but also be as effective as «hard law».  The UNHRC attempts to do this by interlacing the UDHR with the ICCPR and the ICESCR - creating the a single concept _(collectively known as the Bill of Human Rights)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What part of all that answers my questions?
Click to expand...






 Because it shows what the rights were at the time and how those rights were not taken away from them. Unlike the Jews who faced mass expulsion and murder because they rejected muslim rule.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> All of it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of all that answers my questions?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It itemizes the rights you asked about, documents them, and evaluate them in terms of Pre-1948 obligations, Post-1948. then Post-1976.
> 
> With the exception of "self-determination" which was not promised until 1945 (but still under Mandate), the Arab Palestinians had limited rights.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but:
> 
> _A/RES/*3236* (XXIX)
> 22 November 1974_
> *Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,*
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> *1. Reaffirms* the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people *in Palestine,* including:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> *2. *_*Reaffirms* also_ the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;
> 
> 3. _Emphasizes_ that full respect for and the realization of these *inalienable rights of the Palestinian people* are indispensable for the solution of the question of Palestine;
> 
> 4. _Recognizes_ that the Palestinian people is a principal party in the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East;
> 
> 5. _Further recognizes_ the right of the Palestinian people to regain its rights by all means in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations;
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> Resolution 3236 states that Palestinians have inalienable rights and that these rights pre date the resolution.
> 
> At what time and under what circumstances did the Palestinians obtain these rights?
Click to expand...






 Did not exist until 1974 so cant be applied to 1917, 1923, 1948 or 1967.

 They received those rights on the date the resolution became international law, when was that again ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> All the term "inalienable rights" means that:  The right(s) are unable to be taken away from or given away by the possessor.  It does not actually define the right _(what it is a right to)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> All of it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of all that answers my questions?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It itemizes the rights you asked about, documents them, and evaluate them in terms of Pre-1948 obligations, Post-1948. then Post-1976.
> 
> With the exception of "self-determination" which was not promised until 1945 (but still under Mandate), the Arab Palestinians had limited rights.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but:
> 
> At what time and under what circumstances did the Palestinians obtain these rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Actually, that was the question I posed to you.  You claim that there is a "LAW" --- "TREATY" --- "BINDING RESOLUTION" or something that stipulates the Palestinians "obtain these rights."   I say there is not.  I can not prove your case.
> 
> While there is Article 13(2) of the UDHR that says "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country."  BUT, Israel is not the Palestinians country.  Under the right of self-determination, and the fact that the Arab Palestinian rejected opportunities for self governing institutions, I can find no foundation to base your assertion.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Under the right of self-determination, and the fact that the Arab Palestinian rejected opportunities for self governing institutions,​
> No they didn't.
Click to expand...





Read the history books and you will see that they did, starting in 1917 and ending in 1988. In fgact in 1948 they gave up then right to free determination when they allowed Jordan and Egypt to annexe their lands


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> OH come now.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> All the term "inalienable rights" means that:  The right(s) are unable to be taken away from or given away by the possessor.  It does not actually define the right _(what it is a right to)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> All of it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of all that answers my questions?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It itemizes the rights you asked about, documents them, and evaluate them in terms of Pre-1948 obligations, Post-1948. then Post-1976.
> 
> With the exception of "self-determination" which was not promised until 1945 (but still under Mandate), the Arab Palestinians had limited rights.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but:
> 
> At what time and under what circumstances did the Palestinians obtain these rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Actually, that was the question I posed to you.  You claim that there is a "LAW" --- "TREATY" --- "BINDING RESOLUTION" or something that stipulates the Palestinians "obtain these rights."   I say there is not.  I can not prove your case.
> 
> While there is Article 13(2) of the UDHR that says "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country."  BUT, Israel is not the Palestinians country.  Under the right of self-determination, and the fact that the Arab Palestinian rejected opportunities for self governing institutions, I can find no foundation to base your assertion.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country." BUT, Israel is not the Palestinians country.​
> OK but resolution 181 (which reiterates international law) states that all Palestinians whose normal residence is in the territory that becomes the Jewish state will be citizens of that state. And besides, the resolution states "return to their homes and property" not to Palestine.
> 
> So, your statement is only to deceive or at least incorrect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Resolution is an offer with no acceptance by the Arab Palestinian.  It is not a binding resolution.  The Arab rejection has consequences.
> 
> There is no binding resolution or law, that stipulates: "return to their homes and property" not to Palestine.  There are "non-binding resolutions, but the Arab Palestinians rejected every opportunity to participate.
> 
> Only the residents of the territory that becomes the Jewish State of Israel becomes an Israeli Citizen.  But again, the Arab Palestinian rejected Resolution 181.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Was Israel created as part of the resolution 181 process or was it a unilateral move?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> All the term "inalienable rights" means that:  The right(s) are unable to be taken away from or given away by the possessor.  It does not actually define the right _(what it is a right to)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> All of it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of all that answers my questions?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It itemizes the rights you asked about, documents them, and evaluate them in terms of Pre-1948 obligations, Post-1948. then Post-1976.
> 
> With the exception of "self-determination" which was not promised until 1945 (but still under Mandate), the Arab Palestinians had limited rights.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but:
> 
> At what time and under what circumstances did the Palestinians obtain these rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Actually, that was the question I posed to you.  You claim that there is a "LAW" --- "TREATY" --- "BINDING RESOLUTION" or something that stipulates the Palestinians "obtain these rights."   I say there is not.  I can not prove your case.
> 
> While there is Article 13(2) of the UDHR that says "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country."  BUT, Israel is not the Palestinians country.  Under the right of self-determination, and the fact that the Arab Palestinian rejected opportunities for self governing institutions, I can find no foundation to base your assertion.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country." BUT, Israel is not the Palestinians country.​
> OK but resolution 181 (which reiterates international law) states that all Palestinians whose normal residence is in the territory that becomes the Jewish state will be citizens of that state. And besides, the resolution states "return to their homes and property" not to Palestine.
> 
> So, your statement is only to deceive or at least incorrect.
Click to expand...






 Which international; laws are those then, and on what date did they become Law. Remember that resolutions are not always made into laws, and many are just recommendations like 181.

If they gave up their homes and property and left under a false hope of stealing Jewish property then they lose that property, just as if you leave your property in the US for an extended period of time ( only short before the courts agree it has been abandoned ) you cant reclaim it at a later date.  So why are you calling for rights that you don't personally have to be applied to squatters and land thieves


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> All of it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of all that answers my questions?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It itemizes the rights you asked about, documents them, and evaluate them in terms of Pre-1948 obligations, Post-1948. then Post-1976.
> 
> With the exception of "self-determination" which was not promised until 1945 (but still under Mandate), the Arab Palestinians had limited rights.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but:
> 
> _A/RES/*3236* (XXIX)
> 22 November 1974_
> *Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,*
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> *1. Reaffirms* the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people *in Palestine,* including:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> *2. *_*Reaffirms* also_ the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;
> 
> 3. _Emphasizes_ that full respect for and the realization of these *inalienable rights of the Palestinian people* are indispensable for the solution of the question of Palestine;
> 
> 4. _Recognizes_ that the Palestinian people is a principal party in the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East;
> 
> 5. _Further recognizes_ the right of the Palestinian people to regain its rights by all means in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations;
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> Resolution 3236 states that Palestinians have inalienable rights and that these rights pre date the resolution.
> 
> At what time and under what circumstances did the Palestinians obtain these rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did not exist until 1974 so cant be applied to 1917, 1923, 1948 or 1967.
> 
> They received those rights on the date the resolution became international law, when was that again ?
Click to expand...

The resolution reaffirmed *already existing* rights. So when did they obtain these rights was my question.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> OH come now.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> All the term "inalienable rights" means that:  The right(s) are unable to be taken away from or given away by the possessor.  It does not actually define the right _(what it is a right to)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> All of it.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It itemizes the rights you asked about, documents them, and evaluate them in terms of Pre-1948 obligations, Post-1948. then Post-1976.
> 
> With the exception of "self-determination" which was not promised until 1945 (but still under Mandate), the Arab Palestinians had limited rights.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but:
> 
> At what time and under what circumstances did the Palestinians obtain these rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Actually, that was the question I posed to you.  You claim that there is a "LAW" --- "TREATY" --- "BINDING RESOLUTION" or something that stipulates the Palestinians "obtain these rights."   I say there is not.  I can not prove your case.
> 
> While there is Article 13(2) of the UDHR that says "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country."  BUT, Israel is not the Palestinians country.  Under the right of self-determination, and the fact that the Arab Palestinian rejected opportunities for self governing institutions, I can find no foundation to base your assertion.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country." BUT, Israel is not the Palestinians country.​
> OK but resolution 181 (which reiterates international law) states that all Palestinians whose normal residence is in the territory that becomes the Jewish state will be citizens of that state. And besides, the resolution states "return to their homes and property" not to Palestine.
> 
> So, your statement is only to deceive or at least incorrect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Resolution is an offer with no acceptance by the Arab Palestinian.  It is not a binding resolution.  The Arab rejection has consequences.
> 
> There is no binding resolution or law, that stipulates: "return to their homes and property" not to Palestine.  There are "non-binding resolutions, but the Arab Palestinians rejected every opportunity to participate.
> 
> Only the residents of the territory that becomes the Jewish State of Israel becomes an Israeli Citizen.  But again, the Arab Palestinian rejected Resolution 181.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was Israel created as part of the resolution 181 process or was it a unilateral move?
Click to expand...






 Both and the international law of 1923 also played a large part in the birth of Israel. UN res 181 laid down the groundwork, the Mandate of Palestine poured the foundations allowing the Jews who were all Palestinian citizens to declare independence in may 1948. The arab muslims once again missed a chance to create something wonderfull


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I think you need to re-read my posting.  I don't think I said that; or even implied that.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please explain how citizens of a territory defined by international borders have no rights.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I do not believe you will find anywhere - that says "citizens of a territory defined by international borders have no rights."  The "rights" were defined.  The question is: What "rights" are you suggesting they have?  What "rights" and where are they documented as applying?
> 
> The internationally recognized border to the territory for which the Mandate Applied, outlined the Mandate Government as defined by the Council and Allied Powers.  It did not outline subdivisions like Transjordan _(as a Article 22_ _"Certain Communities"_).   And in those defined responsibilities and powers, it clearly states that the Mandatory was to protect _("safeguarding") _the "civil rights" and the "religious rights" of the inhabitants _(irrespective of race and religion)_.  Those are the only two "rights" that were mentioned and were not otherwise defined _alla _1922.
> 
> While I do not think that the Mandate was to be interpreted totally within a strict compliance framework, the Mandate did stipulate that the authority, control or administration would be "explicitly defined by the Council of the League Of Nations."  And while "ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's get a point straight. Is it that the Palestinian's rights were violated, or is it that the Palestinians just had no rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They had the same rights as everyone else did in 1917, until their leaders signed them away in the surrender treaties. So in effect they became stateless and landless vagabonds with no right to anything.
> 
> What rights did the Germans have after 1919 when they surrendered, or the Jews in 1933 to 1945 when they were mass murdered ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They had the same rights as everyone else did in 1917, until their leaders signed them away in the surrender treaties.​
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Treaty of Sèvres - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Treaty of Lausanne - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

Quote the passages that say what you said.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> All of it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of all that answers my questions?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It itemizes the rights you asked about, documents them, and evaluate them in terms of Pre-1948 obligations, Post-1948. then Post-1976.
> 
> With the exception of "self-determination" which was not promised until 1945 (but still under Mandate), the Arab Palestinians had limited rights.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but:
> 
> _A/RES/*3236* (XXIX)
> 22 November 1974_
> *Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,*
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> *1. Reaffirms* the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people *in Palestine,* including:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> *2. *_*Reaffirms* also_ the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;
> 
> 3. _Emphasizes_ that full respect for and the realization of these *inalienable rights of the Palestinian people* are indispensable for the solution of the question of Palestine;
> 
> 4. _Recognizes_ that the Palestinian people is a principal party in the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East;
> 
> 5. _Further recognizes_ the right of the Palestinian people to regain its rights by all means in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations;
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> Resolution 3236 states that Palestinians have inalienable rights and that these rights pre date the resolution.
> 
> At what time and under what circumstances did the Palestinians obtain these rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did not exist until 1974 so cant be applied to 1917, 1923, 1948 or 1967.
> 
> They received those rights on the date the resolution became international law, when was that again ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The resolution reaffirmed *already existing* rights. So when did they obtain these rights was my question.
Click to expand...






 Were does it say that ?

 Find the laws that give those rights and you will your answer, and it seems that you cant find anything that predates 1974


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I think you need to re-read my posting.  I don't think I said that; or even implied that.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I do not believe you will find anywhere - that says "citizens of a territory defined by international borders have no rights."  The "rights" were defined.  The question is: What "rights" are you suggesting they have?  What "rights" and where are they documented as applying?
> 
> The internationally recognized border to the territory for which the Mandate Applied, outlined the Mandate Government as defined by the Council and Allied Powers.  It did not outline subdivisions like Transjordan _(as a Article 22_ _"Certain Communities"_).   And in those defined responsibilities and powers, it clearly states that the Mandatory was to protect _("safeguarding") _the "civil rights" and the "religious rights" of the inhabitants _(irrespective of race and religion)_.  Those are the only two "rights" that were mentioned and were not otherwise defined _alla _1922.
> 
> While I do not think that the Mandate was to be interpreted totally within a strict compliance framework, the Mandate did stipulate that the authority, control or administration would be "explicitly defined by the Council of the League Of Nations."  And while "ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Let's get a point straight. Is it that the Palestinian's rights were violated, or is it that the Palestinians just had no rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They had the same rights as everyone else did in 1917, until their leaders signed them away in the surrender treaties. So in effect they became stateless and landless vagabonds with no right to anything.
> 
> What rights did the Germans have after 1919 when they surrendered, or the Jews in 1933 to 1945 when they were mass murdered ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They had the same rights as everyone else did in 1917, until their leaders signed them away in the surrender treaties.​
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Treaty of Sèvres - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Treaty of Lausanne - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote the passages that say what you said.
Click to expand...





  the renunciation of all non-Turkish land that was part of the Ottoman Empire, as well as parts of Turkish land, to the Allied powers.[2] Notably, Eastern Mediterranean land was to be divided, yielding, amongst others, the British Mandate of Palestine and the French Mandate of Syria.[3] The terms of the treaty brewed hostility and nationalistic feeling amongst Turks. The signatories of the treaty, themselves representatives of the Ottoman Empire, were stripped of their citizenship




  Turkey gave up all claims to the remainder of the Ottoman Empire


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> All of it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of all that answers my questions?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It itemizes the rights you asked about, documents them, and evaluate them in terms of Pre-1948 obligations, Post-1948. then Post-1976.
> 
> With the exception of "self-determination" which was not promised until 1945 (but still under Mandate), the Arab Palestinians had limited rights.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but:
> 
> _A/RES/*3236* (XXIX)
> 22 November 1974_
> *Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,*
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> *1. Reaffirms* the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people *in Palestine,* including:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> *2. *_*Reaffirms* also_ the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;
> 
> 3. _Emphasizes_ that full respect for and the realization of these *inalienable rights of the Palestinian people* are indispensable for the solution of the question of Palestine;
> 
> 4. _Recognizes_ that the Palestinian people is a principal party in the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East;
> 
> 5. _Further recognizes_ the right of the Palestinian people to regain its rights by all means in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations;
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> Resolution 3236 states that Palestinians have inalienable rights and that these rights pre date the resolution.
> 
> At what time and under what circumstances did the Palestinians obtain these rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did not exist until 1974 so cant be applied to 1917, 1923, 1948 or 1967.
> 
> They received those rights on the date the resolution became international law, when was that again ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The resolution reaffirmed *already existing* rights. So when did they obtain these rights was my question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Were does it say that ?
> 
> Find the laws that give those rights and you will your answer, and it seems that you cant find anything that predates 1974
Click to expand...

The rights laid down in resolution 3236 had already gained some legitimacy by the time of the Mandate period. The right to self determination was demanded by the Palestinians consistantly at that time.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> All of it.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It itemizes the rights you asked about, documents them, and evaluate them in terms of Pre-1948 obligations, Post-1948. then Post-1976.
> 
> With the exception of "self-determination" which was not promised until 1945 (but still under Mandate), the Arab Palestinians had limited rights.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but:
> 
> _A/RES/*3236* (XXIX)
> 22 November 1974_
> *Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,*
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> *1. Reaffirms* the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people *in Palestine,* including:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> *2. *_*Reaffirms* also_ the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;
> 
> 3. _Emphasizes_ that full respect for and the realization of these *inalienable rights of the Palestinian people* are indispensable for the solution of the question of Palestine;
> 
> 4. _Recognizes_ that the Palestinian people is a principal party in the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East;
> 
> 5. _Further recognizes_ the right of the Palestinian people to regain its rights by all means in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations;
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> Resolution 3236 states that Palestinians have inalienable rights and that these rights pre date the resolution.
> 
> At what time and under what circumstances did the Palestinians obtain these rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did not exist until 1974 so cant be applied to 1917, 1923, 1948 or 1967.
> 
> They received those rights on the date the resolution became international law, when was that again ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The resolution reaffirmed *already existing* rights. So when did they obtain these rights was my question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Were does it say that ?
> 
> Find the laws that give those rights and you will your answer, and it seems that you cant find anything that predates 1974
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The rights laid down in resolution 3236 had already gained some legitimacy by the time of the Mandate period. The right to self determination was demanded by the Palestinians consistantly at that time.
Click to expand...






 They can demand the right to murder innocent people, it does not make it legal. It becomes legal when a law is enacted and the majority of nations accept it as such. But they have shown free determination many times starting by their refusal to engage with the lands sovereign owners in 1923, starting a civil war in 1929, refusing to accept 181 in 1947, engaging in acts of war in 1947, being party to the invasion to wipe out the Jews in 1948, accepting foreign rule in 1949, engaging in civil war in terrorism in 1967, engaging in civil war in 1970 to take over Jordan, continuing terrorism and violence and then partly declaring independence in 1988. When have they been stopped by foreign interference in all these actions ?


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look UK and EU both forcing Israel that don't establish illegal settlement on land of Palestine and in this regards they are making laws you better checked it out. And as long as long what Charlie Habdo is to do with it. because jews used that situation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would think someone who lives in the UK would know more about this that someone who lives thousands of miles away. Still waiting for the proof that the settlements are all illegal, when the facts show that the land was Jewish prior to 1949 when they were forcibly evicted by the Palestinian muslims and their land stolen. There are no such laws in the UK as they would fall foul of the existing human rights laws and racism laws.  So the muslim terrorists murdered the innocents at Charlie Hebdo because the Jews might use the murders at a later date, are you trying hardtop be stupid ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> First Paris incident occur just after Israel killed 2000 innocent people and European were not happy with Israeli terror. And second incident occur after this bill passed by European parliament. While whole muslim world condemned the both incidents. Then who is behind the terror attack if all Muslim world rejecting it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what did the French have to do with the repercussions of the acts of war by hamas. The French did not drop any bombs on gaza, or fire at any hamas terrorists. If this is the case then France can drop bombs on Mecca and destroy the mosque there.  Did the French oppose this bill and declare that they would only buy from Israeli farms in the west bank, again this means that the French can now bomb gaza in return for the deaths of innocents in France. See were this is leading as very soon there would be no muslims left if the west employed Islamic measures and moralities.
> The muslims only condemned the attacks after they faces reprisals for them, which is common all over the world.  It is islam and its teachings in the koran that is to blame, does it not say terrorise those who will not bow down before me until there is only islam ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look phoney you are full of hate and you are earning by spreading hate, tell us how much you earned as propagandist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing at all as I tell the truth that is very easy to find on the internet and in public library's
Click to expand...

I will say you don't live in UK. And your language is english either. you know nothing.


----------



## Rehmani

RoccoR said:


> Rehmani,  et al,
> 
> Oh come now!  Is that really accurate?  Is it really close to the truth?
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look phoney you are full of hate and you are earning by spreading hate, tell us how much you earned as propagandist.
> 
> 
> 
> *(EXAMPLES)*
> 
> What are these examples of?
> 
> Spreading Hate
> Bring Hate
> Preventing Peace
> Band #1:
> 
> *Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate - Columbia Daily ...*
> www.columbiatribune.com/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/arab...
> Jan 24, *2015 *· Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate - Columbia Daily Tribune: Letters To The Editor Opinion ... Open Column Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate.
> 
> *Pro-Palestinian students bring hate, intimidation to ...*
> www.foxnews.com/us/2014/06/09/pro-palestinian-students-bring-hate...
> Jun 09, *2014* · ... hateful rhetoric.Students for Justice in Palestine has ... Palestinian students bring hate, ... students in America uncomfortable on campus seems ...
> 
> *How Palestinian Hate Prevents Peace - The New York Times*
> www.nytimes.com/2013/10/16/opinion/how-palestinian-hate-prevents...
> Oct 15, *2013* · How Palestinian Hate Prevents Peace. By YUVAL STEINITZ ...Palestinian leaders must now reciprocate by immediately and fully halting their …​Band #2:
> 
> *Hamas Rejects UN Textbooks for Teaching Non-Violence*
> www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-bashes-unrwas-human-rights-corriculum
> ... [in the books] refer to [Mahatma] Gandhi, Martin ... The Palestinian narrative was also ... the universal values that underpin the work of the United Nations. ...
> 
> *6000 Boys Graduate Palestinian Islamic Jihad Terrorist ...*
> www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/6000-boys-graduate...
> Aug 19, 2015 · The Iranian-backed Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist organization held a graduation ceremony Tuesday for the 6,000 Gaza boys who this summer attended …
> 
> *Kid Jihad” Summer Training Camp: Blood, Fire & AK-47’s ...*
> patriotupdate.com/kid-jihad-summer-training-camp-blood-fire-ak-47s
> Tens of thousands of Palestinian children hurried to register for Terrorists (summer) training camp 101 and to attend programs which indoctrinate the youngsters in ...
> 
> *Camp Jihad’: U.N.-Sponsored Camps Encourage Palestinian ...*
> www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/14/camp-jihad-u-n-sponsored-camps...
> Summer at United Nations-funded camps in Gaza and the northern West Bank include playing with parachutes, jumping on trampolines, and racing down inflatable slides.
> 
> *Islamic Jihad's Summer of Radicalization :: The ...*
> www.investigativeproject.org/4046/islamic-jihad-summer-of...
> Summer camp conjures up bucolic images of swimming and other outdoor fun. But thousands of Palestinian children will experience something quite different, as ...​Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Look body you can't compare some one like phoney who is living in UK with people of Palestine who are facing terror last 70 years by the Israeli army with modern war machine followed by wii elite force support.
Be real Roccr.


----------



## Rehmani

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> This is entirely wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course Palestinians are freedom fighters.  And, of course Israel has prevented the Palestinians from exercising their right of self-determination.
> 
> In terms of heroism, the Palestinians are facing far stronger oppression and have far fewer resources than had the ANC, hence they are probably more heroic given their continued restistance.
> 
> As far as violence, the Palestinians have followed the course that other national liberation movements have followed, like the ANC. The ANC's Charter for Umkhonto we Sizwe is remarkably similar to that of the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians have exercised the right of self-determination three times on 70 years, and the Israelis did not oppose them.  "Of course" they Israelis did not interfere with the Arab Palestinian right to self-determination.
> 
> The Palestinians have attacked unarmed, non-combatants, nationally and internationally, countless times.  They've attacked school children, the disabled, the aged, and the defenseless; many many times in the last 70 years.
> 
> Not all national liberation movements are honorable.  And clearly the major Arab Palestinian leaders of 1948, were cross-section ---  more being less honorable than others. These dishonorable leaders, with a history of serving the Ottoman/Turks and the WWII Germans in formal service and as enemy collaborators against the allied powers, have nothing to be proud of in terms of chivalry or a system of positive religious, moral, and social codes.  And this lack of chivalry, in the exercise of positive religious, moral, and social codes, has been passed down over several generations to parents that train their children to hate and pursue acts of terror and war for a cause that cannot be won.  These Hostile Arab Palestinians hold many of the characteristics of radical Islamic threats that are generally thought to be less than positive for the species and humanity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Roccor you are behaving like that either you are fool or you are thinking world is. I will say does't matter what ever you do but one thing you can not change the facts and figure, sound like you are writing history as you want to see.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Israel was the outcome of a successive series of events moving towards self-determination; just as the hardships of the Arab Palestinians was a consequence of very poor self-actualization.

The difference is in the objective and goals.

•  The objective of the Arab Palestinian was to "prevent" the Jewish People from achieving an independent state.  _(The goal was NOT directed at achieving independence for themselves.)_  (PREVENTION)

•  The objective of the Jewish People was to "achieving" an independent state.  _(The goal was NOT to prevent or hinder the Arab Palestinian from achieving independence.)_ (ACHIEVEMENT)​ 


P F Tinmore said:


> Was Israel created as part of the resolution 181 process or was it a unilateral move?


*(COMMENT)*

Israel was a creation of the Jewish People through their exercise of "collective self-determination;" nation building.  It was the national aspiration deemed necessary as a matter of cultural self preservation.  

The GA Resolution 181 was the "*HOW TO BOOK*" by the UN and the recommendations of the Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP).  It was the UNSCOP that wrote the "Steps Preparatory to Independence"  _(the "HOW")_ and it was the General Assembly that adopted the recommendation as the proper steps _(international consensus)_.  BUT is was the Jewish People that initiated the action, completed the process to the extent possible _(opposed by Powerful Arab Forces)_, and declared independence. 

It was the collective decision of the Arab League to use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state (external interference).  A violation of the Article 2(4) Principle of the UN Charter.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Challenger

RoccoR said:


> It was the collective decision of the Arab League to use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state (external interference). A violation of the Article 2(4) Principle of the UN Charter.



Except it wasn't. The Arab league intervened, "...by virtue of their responsibility as members of the Arab League which is a regional organization within the meaning of Chapter VIII of the Charter of the United Nations. The recent disturbances in Palestine further constitute a serious and direct threat to peace and security within the territories of the Arab States themselves. For these reasons, and considering that the security of Palestine is a sacred trust for them, and out of anxiousness to check the further deterioration of the prevailing conditions and to prevent the spread of disorder and lawlessness into the neighbouring Arab lands, and in order to fill the vacuum created by the termination of the Mandate and the failure to replace it by any legally constituted authority, the Arab Governments find themselves compelled to intervene for the sole purpose of restoring peace and security and establishing law and order in Palestine.

The Arab States recognize that the independence and sovereignty of Palestine which was so far subject to the British Mandate has now, with the termination of the Mandate, become established in fact, and maintain that the lawful inhabitants of Palestine are alone competent and entitled to set up an administration in Palestine for the discharge of all governmental functions without any external interference. As soon as that stage is reached the intervention of the Arab States, which is confined to the restoration of peace and establishment of law and order, shall be put an end to, and the sovereign State of Palestine will be competent in co-operation with the other States members of the Arab League, to take every step for the promotion of the welfare and security of its peoples and territory." Arab League Declaration on the intervention in Palestine, 15 May 1948 | Religion :: Science :: Peace


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

If this is true, then it should not be any problem for you to demonstrate that in International or customary law.



P F Tinmore said:


> The resolution reaffirmed *already existing* rights. So when did they obtain these rights was my question.


*(QUESTION*)

These rights do not exist as far as I can tell.  I don't claim that the Arab Palestinians have these rights you are advancing.  AS far as they "already existing," these non-binding claims fail to substantiate their claim.  

What were these right?   Where did they come from? 

The base argument has been, since before the Threat Letter from the Arab Higher Committee, in February 1948, is grounded in the establishment of a Jewish National Home --- which ended with the creation of the Jewish State.   And that is a matter of "sovereignty," which was further compounded with the 1967 Six-Day War.  The Jewish People, to the general extent that I can discern, have not challenged Arab Palestinian rights.  They do not claim that the Arab Palestinian do not have certain rights.  The Israelis take such action that is necessary to protect and preserve the Jewish National Home and a Territory necessarily isolated, governed separately, and sheltered from the Arab Palestinians that would use retroactive, undefined, and disguised "inherent rights" and "mutilated law" to dismember and destroy the cultural preserve of the Jewish People.

*(QUOTE)*

The rules for acquisition of territory were concisely summarized by the tribunal in the first (1998) _Eritrea/Yemen _Arbitration Award: 

•  “The modern international law of the acquisition (or attribution) of territory generally requires that there be: an *intentional display of power and authority over the territory*, by the *exercise of jurisdiction and state functions, on a continuous and peaceful basis*.”

Award of the Arbitral Tribunal in the first stage of the proceedings between Eritrea and Yemen (_Territorial Sovereignty and Scope of the Dispute_, (1998) 22 _RIAA_, p. 268, para. 239). Judge Dugard, in his dissenting opinion in the _Pedra Branca/Pulau Batu Puteh _case, stated: 

This formulation requires serious attention for two reasons. First, because it gives effect to the jurisprudence of contemporary international law from the time of Max Huber’s seminal decision in the _Island of Palmas Case (Netherlands/United States of America) _(Award of 4 April 1928, _RIAA_, Vol. II (1949), pp. 839, 868). Secondly, because it was expounded by a Tribunal comprising two former Presidents of the International Court of Justice (Professor Sir Robert Y. Jennings and Judge Stephen M. Schwebel), the President of the Court (Judge Rosalyn Higgins) and two highly experienced and well regarded international law practitioners (Dr. Ahmed Sadek El-Kosheri and Mr. Keith Highet). In my view, this is a formulation of the law on the acquisition of territory that is to govern all acquisitions of territorial title based on the effective control of territory over a long period of time, including prescription, estoppel, abandonment of title by the previous sovereign, acquiescence and tacit agreement evidenced by conduct. (pages 150-151, para. 42).​
Please see the UN *Reports of International Arbitral Awards**, *_Volume/Pages _9 October 1998 Territorial Sovereignty and Scope of the Dispute (Eritrea and Yemen) XXII, pp. 211-334 or *PCA Territorial Sovereignty and Scope of Dispute, 9 October 1998*.

*(COMMENT)*

AGAIN, you are attempting to advance a theory of "rights" where the actual argument rests in the application of the "rights."  And the Arab Palestinian claim so many rights, it is very hard to separate which one they are applying.  In this case, the rights of the Arab Palestinian are as much blocked by law as the Israelis.  While the Israelis can claim an intentional display of power and authority --- which the Arab Palestinians cannot, the Arab Palestinians cannot claim "*exercise of jurisdiction and state functions, on a continuous and peaceful basis."  *The Arab Palestinians have NOT been continuously peaceful for any significant period of time in more than Century.  Thus, the territory will probably remain in an "Occupied Status" since the Rule of Acquisition *(OCCUPATION)* cannot be fulfilled.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> If this is true, then it should not be any problem for you to demonstrate that in International or customary law.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The resolution reaffirmed *already existing* rights. So when did they obtain these rights was my question.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION*)
> 
> These rights do not exist as far as I can tell.  I don't claim that the Arab Palestinians have these rights you are advancing.  AS far as they "already existing," these non-binding claims fail to substantiate their claim.
> 
> What were these right?   Where did they come from?
> 
> The base argument has been, since before the Threat Letter from the Arab Higher Committee, in February 1948, is grounded in the establishment of a Jewish National Home --- which ended with the creation of the Jewish State.   And that is a matter of "sovereignty," which was further compounded with the 1967 Six-Day War.  The Jewish People, to the general extent that I can discern, have not challenged Arab Palestinian rights.  They do not claim that the Arab Palestinian do not have certain rights.  The Israelis take such action that is necessary to protect and preserve the Jewish National Home and a Territory necessarily isolated, governed separately, and sheltered from the Arab Palestinians that would use retroactive, undefined, and disguised "inherent rights" and "mutilated law" to dismember and destroy the cultural preserve of the Jewish People.
> 
> *(QUOTE)*
> 
> The rules for acquisition of territory were concisely summarized by the tribunal in the first (1998) _Eritrea/Yemen _Arbitration Award:
> •  “The modern international law of the acquisition (or attribution) of territory generally requires that there be: an *intentional display of power and authority over the territory*, by the *exercise of jurisdiction and state functions, on a continuous and peaceful basis*.”
> Award of the Arbitral Tribunal in the first stage of the proceedings between Eritrea and Yemen (_Territorial Sovereignty and Scope of the Dispute_, (1998) 22 _RIAA_, p. 268, para. 239). Judge Dugard, in his dissenting opinion in the _Pedra Branca/Pulau Batu Puteh _case, stated:
> 
> This formulation requires serious attention for two reasons. First, because it gives effect to the jurisprudence of contemporary international law from the time of Max Huber’s seminal decision in the _Island of Palmas Case (Netherlands/United States of America) _(Award of 4 April 1928, _RIAA_, Vol. II (1949), pp. 839, 868). Secondly, because it was expounded by a Tribunal comprising two former Presidents of the International Court of Justice (Professor Sir Robert Y. Jennings and Judge Stephen M. Schwebel), the President of the Court (Judge Rosalyn Higgins) and two highly experienced and well regarded international law practitioners (Dr. Ahmed Sadek El-Kosheri and Mr. Keith Highet). In my view, this is a formulation of the law on the acquisition of territory that is to govern all acquisitions of territorial title based on the effective control of territory over a long period of time, including prescription, estoppel, abandonment of title by the previous sovereign, acquiescence and tacit agreement evidenced by conduct. (pages 150-151, para. 42).​
> Please see the UN *Reports of International Arbitral Awards**, *_Volume/Pages _9 October 1998 Territorial Sovereignty and Scope of the Dispute (Eritrea and Yemen) XXII, pp. 211-334 or *PCA Territorial Sovereignty and Scope of Dispute, 9 October 1998*.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> AGAIN, you are attempting to advance a theory of "rights" where the actual argument rests in the application of the "rights."  And the Arab Palestinian claim so many rights, it is very hard to separate which one they are applying.  In this case, the rights of the Arab Palestinian are as much blocked by law as the Israelis.  While the Israelis can claim an intentional display of power and authority --- which the Arab Palestinians cannot, the Arab Palestinians cannot claim "*exercise of jurisdiction and state functions, on a continuous and peaceful basis."  *The Arab Palestinians have NOT been continuously peaceful for any significant period of time in more than Century.  Thus, the territory will probably remain in an "Occupied Status" since the Rule of Acquisition *(OCCUPATION)* cannot be fulfilled.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Holy smokescreen, Batman. How about just answering the question?


----------



## RoccoR

Challenger,  et al,

This is nonsense.



Challenger said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was the collective decision of the Arab League to use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state (external interference). A violation of the Article 2(4) Principle of the UN Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except it wasn't. The Arab league intervened, "...by virtue of their responsibility as members of the Arab League which is a regional organization within the meaning of Chapter VIII of the Charter of the United Nations. The recent disturbances in Palestine further constitute a serious and direct threat to peace and security within the territories of the Arab States themselves. For these reasons, and considering that the security of Palestine is a sacred trust for them, and out of anxiousness to check the further deterioration of the prevailing conditions and to prevent the spread of disorder and lawlessness into the neighbouring Arab lands, and in order to fill the vacuum created by the termination of the Mandate and the failure to replace it by any legally constituted authority, the Arab Governments find themselves compelled to intervene for the sole purpose of restoring peace and security and establishing law and order in Palestine.
> 
> The Arab States recognize that the independence and sovereignty of Palestine which was so far subject to the British Mandate has now, with the termination of the Mandate, become established in fact, and maintain that the lawful inhabitants of Palestine are alone competent and entitled to set up an administration in Palestine for the discharge of all governmental functions without any external interference. As soon as that stage is reached the intervention of the Arab States, which is confined to the restoration of peace and establishment of law and order, shall be put an end to, and the sovereign State of Palestine will be competent in co-operation with the other States members of the Arab League, to take every step for the promotion of the welfare and security of its peoples and territory." Arab League Declaration on the intervention in Palestine, 15 May 1948 | Religion :: Science :: Peace
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

All you have to do is merely read UN Security Council Resolution 50, THEN the UN Security Council Resolution 54, to make the determination.  

UNSC RES/50 declares in para 11 that "*rejected by either party or by both*, or If, having been accepted, it is subsequently repudiated or violated, the situation in Palestine will be reconsidered with a view to action under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations."   THEN read UNSC RES/54, and you will notice that is says:  "Taking into consideration that the Provisional Government of Israel has indicated its acceptance in principle of a prolongation of the truce in Palestine that *the States members of the Arab League have rejected successive appeals of the United Nations Mediator*, and of the Security Council in its resolution 53 (1948) of 7 July 1948, for the prolongation of the truce in Palestine; and that there has consequently developed a renewal of hostilities in Palestine.    Israel accepted the Truce and the Arab League did not.

I agree that the Arab League used the compelling reason of self-defense _(sole purpose of restoring peace and security and establishing law and order)_, BUT that merely attempts to color the issue.  Jordan advanced across their borders to claim the West Bank, while Egypt claimed the Gaza Strip.  the real truth was, the League jumped their borders to steal land, which the did and held for two decades.

You can pump-out that disinformation all you want.  The fact is, that after using the "restoring peace and security" excuse --- they captured territory that was allocated for the Arab State.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

I did answer the question.



P F Tinmore said:


> Holy smokescreen, Batman. How about just answering the question?


*(COMMENT)*

Other than the civil and religious rights (Mandate), there are no other preexisting rights that can documented; until 1948 (non-binding).

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Israel was the outcome of a successive series of events moving towards self-determination; just as the hardships of the Arab Palestinians was a consequence of very poor self-actualization.
> 
> The difference is in the objective and goals.
> 
> •  The objective of the Arab Palestinian was to "prevent" the Jewish People from achieving an independent state.  _(The goal was NOT directed at achieving independence for themselves.)_  (PREVENTION)
> 
> •  The objective of the Jewish People was to "achieving" an independent state.  _(The goal was NOT to prevent or hinder the Arab Palestinian from achieving independence.)_ (ACHIEVEMENT)​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was Israel created as part of the resolution 181 process or was it a unilateral move?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel was a creation of the Jewish People through their exercise of "collective self-determination;" nation building.  It was the national aspiration deemed necessary as a matter of cultural self preservation.
> 
> The GA Resolution 181 was the "*HOW TO BOOK*" by the UN and the recommendations of the Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP).  It was the UNSCOP that wrote the "Steps Preparatory to Independence"  _(the "HOW")_ and it was the General Assembly that adopted the recommendation as the proper steps _(international consensus)_.  BUT is was the Jewish People that initiated the action, completed the process to the extent possible _(opposed by Powerful Arab Forces)_, and declared independence.
> 
> It was the collective decision of the Arab League to use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state (external interference).  A violation of the Article 2(4) Principle of the UN Charter.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The objective of the Arab Palestinian was to "prevent" the Jewish People from achieving an independent state. _(The goal was NOT directed at achieving independence for themselves.)_ (PREVENTION)​
Why do you set up a false premise to base your posts?

The Palestinians consistently lobbied Britain for their independence and self determination. Of course this was consistently ignored. Any move toward independence by the Palestinians was crushed by Britain. Their organizations and institutions were closed down. Their leaders were arrested, exiled, or killed. They were strictly forbidden from forming any means of defense.

You portray this as a lack of desire or competence to gain independence.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again NONSENSE.



P F Tinmore said:


> The rights laid down in resolution 3236 had already gained some legitimacy by the time of the Mandate period. The right to self determination was demanded by the Palestinians consistantly at that time.


*(COMMENT)*

Resolution 3236 was adopted as NON-BINDING in 1974.  Even if it was law, it cannot be applied retroactively.

Demonstrate how 1974 NON-BINDING Resolution pertaining to "self-determination" and "independence and sovereignty" (neither having yet been adopted) "already gained some legitimacy by the time of the Mandate period."  The Mandate extends safeguards to civil and religious rights --- not "self-determination and sovereignty."

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

The Mandate did forbid the ceding of Palestine territory to any foreign power and it was the responsibility of the Mandatory to prevent the placement of Palestine territory under control of the Government of any foreign power. Being from another continent is about as foreign as it gets.

 "The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of the Government of any foreign Power."

Self-determination is one of the major civil rights. In fact, it is the first civil right called out in the Covenant on Civil Rights.

"_*Article 1*_

*1. All peoples have the right of self-determination.* By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

2. All peoples may, for their own ends, freely dispose of their natural wealth and resources without prejudice to any obligations arising out of international economic co-operation, based upon the principle of mutual benefit, and international law. In no case may a people be deprived of its own means of subsistence.

3. The States Parties to the present Covenant, including those having responsibility for the administration of Non-Self-Governing and Trust Territories, shall promote the realization of the right of self-determination, and shall respect that right, in conformity with the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations....."


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would think someone who lives in the UK would know more about this that someone who lives thousands of miles away. Still waiting for the proof that the settlements are all illegal, when the facts show that the land was Jewish prior to 1949 when they were forcibly evicted by the Palestinian muslims and their land stolen. There are no such laws in the UK as they would fall foul of the existing human rights laws and racism laws.  So the muslim terrorists murdered the innocents at Charlie Hebdo because the Jews might use the murders at a later date, are you trying hardtop be stupid ?
> 
> 
> 
> First Paris incident occur just after Israel killed 2000 innocent people and European were not happy with Israeli terror. And second incident occur after this bill passed by European parliament. While whole muslim world condemned the both incidents. Then who is behind the terror attack if all Muslim world rejecting it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what did the French have to do with the repercussions of the acts of war by hamas. The French did not drop any bombs on gaza, or fire at any hamas terrorists. If this is the case then France can drop bombs on Mecca and destroy the mosque there.  Did the French oppose this bill and declare that they would only buy from Israeli farms in the west bank, again this means that the French can now bomb gaza in return for the deaths of innocents in France. See were this is leading as very soon there would be no muslims left if the west employed Islamic measures and moralities.
> The muslims only condemned the attacks after they faces reprisals for them, which is common all over the world.  It is islam and its teachings in the koran that is to blame, does it not say terrorise those who will not bow down before me until there is only islam ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look phoney you are full of hate and you are earning by spreading hate, tell us how much you earned as propagandist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing at all as I tell the truth that is very easy to find on the internet and in public library's
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I will say you don't live in UK. And your language is english either. you know nothing.
Click to expand...





 Then youi prove you know nothing what so ever and need to get an English education


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani,  et al,
> 
> Oh come now!  Is that really accurate?  Is it really close to the truth?
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look phoney you are full of hate and you are earning by spreading hate, tell us how much you earned as propagandist.
> 
> 
> 
> *(EXAMPLES)*
> 
> What are these examples of?
> 
> Spreading Hate
> Bring Hate
> Preventing Peace
> Band #1:
> 
> *Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate - Columbia Daily ...*
> www.columbiatribune.com/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/arab...
> Jan 24, *2015 *· Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate - Columbia Daily Tribune: Letters To The Editor Opinion ... Open Column Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate.
> 
> *Pro-Palestinian students bring hate, intimidation to ...*
> www.foxnews.com/us/2014/06/09/pro-palestinian-students-bring-hate...
> Jun 09, *2014* · ... hateful rhetoric.Students for Justice in Palestine has ... Palestinian students bring hate, ... students in America uncomfortable on campus seems ...
> 
> *How Palestinian Hate Prevents Peace - The New York Times*
> www.nytimes.com/2013/10/16/opinion/how-palestinian-hate-prevents...
> Oct 15, *2013* · How Palestinian Hate Prevents Peace. By YUVAL STEINITZ ...Palestinian leaders must now reciprocate by immediately and fully halting their …​Band #2:
> 
> *Hamas Rejects UN Textbooks for Teaching Non-Violence*
> www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-bashes-unrwas-human-rights-corriculum
> ... [in the books] refer to [Mahatma] Gandhi, Martin ... The Palestinian narrative was also ... the universal values that underpin the work of the United Nations. ...
> 
> *6000 Boys Graduate Palestinian Islamic Jihad Terrorist ...*
> www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/6000-boys-graduate...
> Aug 19, 2015 · The Iranian-backed Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist organization held a graduation ceremony Tuesday for the 6,000 Gaza boys who this summer attended …
> 
> *Kid Jihad” Summer Training Camp: Blood, Fire & AK-47’s ...*
> patriotupdate.com/kid-jihad-summer-training-camp-blood-fire-ak-47s
> Tens of thousands of Palestinian children hurried to register for Terrorists (summer) training camp 101 and to attend programs which indoctrinate the youngsters in ...
> 
> *Camp Jihad’: U.N.-Sponsored Camps Encourage Palestinian ...*
> www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/14/camp-jihad-u-n-sponsored-camps...
> Summer at United Nations-funded camps in Gaza and the northern West Bank include playing with parachutes, jumping on trampolines, and racing down inflatable slides.
> 
> *Islamic Jihad's Summer of Radicalization :: The ...*
> www.investigativeproject.org/4046/islamic-jihad-summer-of...
> Summer camp conjures up bucolic images of swimming and other outdoor fun. But thousands of Palestinian children will experience something quite different, as ...​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look body you can't compare some one like phoney who is living in UK with people of Palestine who are facing terror last 70 years by the Israeli army with modern war machine followed by wii elite force support.
> Be real Roccr.
Click to expand...






The only terror is that faced by the JEWS  from the arab muslims. they are only doing what a muslim has to do by the command of their false prophet and moon god. If they had not invaded in 1949 and tried to wipe out the Jews then they would not have been killed in vast numbers. If they did not fire illegal weapons from civilian areas that have been branded war crimes they would not see thousands of human shields killed in the backwash.   They showed their intent in 2005 when Israel removed all Jews from gaza and the Palestinians increased the numbers and severity of the terrorist attacks.


----------



## Phoenall

Challenger said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was the collective decision of the Arab League to use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state (external interference). A violation of the Article 2(4) Principle of the UN Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except it wasn't. The Arab league intervened, "...by virtue of their responsibility as members of the Arab League which is a regional organization within the meaning of Chapter VIII of the Charter of the United Nations. The recent disturbances in Palestine further constitute a serious and direct threat to peace and security within the territories of the Arab States themselves. For these reasons, and considering that the security of Palestine is a sacred trust for them, and out of anxiousness to check the further deterioration of the prevailing conditions and to prevent the spread of disorder and lawlessness into the neighbouring Arab lands, and in order to fill the vacuum created by the termination of the Mandate and the failure to replace it by any legally constituted authority, the Arab Governments find themselves compelled to intervene for the sole purpose of restoring peace and security and establishing law and order in Palestine.
> 
> The Arab States recognize that the independence and sovereignty of Palestine which was so far subject to the British Mandate has now, with the termination of the Mandate, become established in fact, and maintain that the lawful inhabitants of Palestine are alone competent and entitled to set up an administration in Palestine for the discharge of all governmental functions without any external interference. As soon as that stage is reached the intervention of the Arab States, which is confined to the restoration of peace and establishment of law and order, shall be put an end to, and the sovereign State of Palestine will be competent in co-operation with the other States members of the Arab League, to take every step for the promotion of the welfare and security of its peoples and territory." Arab League Declaration on the intervention in Palestine, 15 May 1948 | Religion :: Science :: Peace
Click to expand...





So what about the threats from the arab league prior to may 1948 when the threat of genocide and mass murder were the order of the day. Or are they to be ignored and forgotten because they don't sit with your Jew hatred and Nazi dogma


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> If this is true, then it should not be any problem for you to demonstrate that in International or customary law.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The resolution reaffirmed *already existing* rights. So when did they obtain these rights was my question.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION*)
> 
> These rights do not exist as far as I can tell.  I don't claim that the Arab Palestinians have these rights you are advancing.  AS far as they "already existing," these non-binding claims fail to substantiate their claim.
> 
> What were these right?   Where did they come from?
> 
> The base argument has been, since before the Threat Letter from the Arab Higher Committee, in February 1948, is grounded in the establishment of a Jewish National Home --- which ended with the creation of the Jewish State.   And that is a matter of "sovereignty," which was further compounded with the 1967 Six-Day War.  The Jewish People, to the general extent that I can discern, have not challenged Arab Palestinian rights.  They do not claim that the Arab Palestinian do not have certain rights.  The Israelis take such action that is necessary to protect and preserve the Jewish National Home and a Territory necessarily isolated, governed separately, and sheltered from the Arab Palestinians that would use retroactive, undefined, and disguised "inherent rights" and "mutilated law" to dismember and destroy the cultural preserve of the Jewish People.
> 
> *(QUOTE)*
> 
> The rules for acquisition of territory were concisely summarized by the tribunal in the first (1998) _Eritrea/Yemen _Arbitration Award:
> •  “The modern international law of the acquisition (or attribution) of territory generally requires that there be: an *intentional display of power and authority over the territory*, by the *exercise of jurisdiction and state functions, on a continuous and peaceful basis*.”
> Award of the Arbitral Tribunal in the first stage of the proceedings between Eritrea and Yemen (_Territorial Sovereignty and Scope of the Dispute_, (1998) 22 _RIAA_, p. 268, para. 239). Judge Dugard, in his dissenting opinion in the _Pedra Branca/Pulau Batu Puteh _case, stated:
> 
> This formulation requires serious attention for two reasons. First, because it gives effect to the jurisprudence of contemporary international law from the time of Max Huber’s seminal decision in the _Island of Palmas Case (Netherlands/United States of America) _(Award of 4 April 1928, _RIAA_, Vol. II (1949), pp. 839, 868). Secondly, because it was expounded by a Tribunal comprising two former Presidents of the International Court of Justice (Professor Sir Robert Y. Jennings and Judge Stephen M. Schwebel), the President of the Court (Judge Rosalyn Higgins) and two highly experienced and well regarded international law practitioners (Dr. Ahmed Sadek El-Kosheri and Mr. Keith Highet). In my view, this is a formulation of the law on the acquisition of territory that is to govern all acquisitions of territorial title based on the effective control of territory over a long period of time, including prescription, estoppel, abandonment of title by the previous sovereign, acquiescence and tacit agreement evidenced by conduct. (pages 150-151, para. 42).​
> Please see the UN *Reports of International Arbitral Awards**, *_Volume/Pages _9 October 1998 Territorial Sovereignty and Scope of the Dispute (Eritrea and Yemen) XXII, pp. 211-334 or *PCA Territorial Sovereignty and Scope of Dispute, 9 October 1998*.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> AGAIN, you are attempting to advance a theory of "rights" where the actual argument rests in the application of the "rights."  And the Arab Palestinian claim so many rights, it is very hard to separate which one they are applying.  In this case, the rights of the Arab Palestinian are as much blocked by law as the Israelis.  While the Israelis can claim an intentional display of power and authority --- which the Arab Palestinians cannot, the Arab Palestinians cannot claim "*exercise of jurisdiction and state functions, on a continuous and peaceful basis."  *The Arab Palestinians have NOT been continuously peaceful for any significant period of time in more than Century.  Thus, the territory will probably remain in an "Occupied Status" since the Rule of Acquisition *(OCCUPATION)* cannot be fulfilled.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman. How about just answering the question?
Click to expand...







 He did and blew you out of the water and right to the top of Everest. So what rights are being denied and by whom, and when did these rights become international law ?


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> The Mandate did forbid the ceding of Palestine territory to any foreign power and it was the responsibility of the Mandatory to prevent the placement of Palestine territory under control of the Government of any foreign power. Being from another continent is about as foreign as it gets.
> 
> "The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of the Government of any foreign Power."
> 
> Self-determination is one of the major civil rights. In fact, it is the first civil right called out in the Covenant on Civil Rights.
> 
> "_*Article 1*_
> 
> *1. All peoples have the right of self-determination.* By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
> 
> 2. All peoples may, for their own ends, freely dispose of their natural wealth and resources without prejudice to any obligations arising out of international economic co-operation, based upon the principle of mutual benefit, and international law. In no case may a people be deprived of its own means of subsistence.
> 
> 3. The States Parties to the present Covenant, including those having responsibility for the administration of Non-Self-Governing and Trust Territories, shall promote the realization of the right of self-determination, and shall respect that right, in conformity with the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations....."







 When did this become international law then freddy boy ?


----------



## Challenger

RoccoR said:


> Challenger,  et al,
> 
> This is nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was the collective decision of the Arab League to use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state (external interference). A violation of the Article 2(4) Principle of the UN Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except it wasn't. The Arab league intervened, "...by virtue of their responsibility as members of the Arab League which is a regional organization within the meaning of Chapter VIII of the Charter of the United Nations. The recent disturbances in Palestine further constitute a serious and direct threat to peace and security within the territories of the Arab States themselves. For these reasons, and considering that the security of Palestine is a sacred trust for them, and out of anxiousness to check the further deterioration of the prevailing conditions and to prevent the spread of disorder and lawlessness into the neighbouring Arab lands, and in order to fill the vacuum created by the termination of the Mandate and the failure to replace it by any legally constituted authority, the Arab Governments find themselves compelled to intervene for the sole purpose of restoring peace and security and establishing law and order in Palestine.
> 
> The Arab States recognize that the independence and sovereignty of Palestine which was so far subject to the British Mandate has now, with the termination of the Mandate, become established in fact, and maintain that the lawful inhabitants of Palestine are alone competent and entitled to set up an administration in Palestine for the discharge of all governmental functions without any external interference. As soon as that stage is reached the intervention of the Arab States, which is confined to the restoration of peace and establishment of law and order, shall be put an end to, and the sovereign State of Palestine will be competent in co-operation with the other States members of the Arab League, to take every step for the promotion of the welfare and security of its peoples and territory." Arab League Declaration on the intervention in Palestine, 15 May 1948 | Religion :: Science :: Peace
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All you have to do is merely read UN Security Council Resolution 50, THEN the UN Security Council Resolution 54, to make the determination.
> 
> UNSC RES/50 declares in para 11 that "*rejected by either party or by both*, or If, having been accepted, it is subsequently repudiated or violated, the situation in Palestine will be reconsidered with a view to action under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations."   THEN read UNSC RES/54, and you will notice that is says:  "Taking into consideration that the Provisional Government of Israel has indicated its acceptance in principle of a prolongation of the truce in Palestine that *the States members of the Arab League have rejected successive appeals of the United Nations Mediator*, and of the Security Council in its resolution 53 (1948) of 7 July 1948, for the prolongation of the truce in Palestine; and that there has consequently developed a renewal of hostilities in Palestine.    Israel accepted the Truce and the Arab League did not.
> 
> I agree that the Arab League used the compelling reason of self-defense _(sole purpose of restoring peace and security and establishing law and order)_, BUT that merely attempts to color the issue.  Jordan advanced across their borders to claim the West Bank, while Egypt claimed the Gaza Strip.  the real truth was, the League jumped their borders to steal land, which the did and held for two decades.
> 
> You can pump-out that disinformation all you want.  The fact is, that after using the "restoring peace and security" excuse --- they captured territory that was allocated for the Arab State.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


The fact is, that "after using the "restoring peace and security" excuse --- they captured territory that was allocated for the Arab State" in order to prevent it falling into the hands of the Zionists (or Abdullah, which was both Syria's and Iraq's primary objective). 

The fact that Jordan's Abdullah had already agreed to divide Palestine between the Zionists and himself is irrelevant as regards the intention of the Arab intervention in Palestine. It puts paid to the myth that the Arabs were agressors and intended to "drive the Jews into the sea" or that at any point there was an existential threat to Zionist Israel.

Interesting that the UNSC did not condemn the Arab intervention as agression and the fact that this was two months following the original intervention. Neither do the UNSC resolutions you mention or cite Article 2 (4) of the Charter which indicates the UNSC did not consider the Arab intervention a violation of said article.

As an aside, I wonder who murdered the UN mediator mentioned in the UNSC resolutions in order to prevent him carrying out his function?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Israel was the outcome of a successive series of events moving towards self-determination; just as the hardships of the Arab Palestinians was a consequence of very poor self-actualization.
> 
> The difference is in the objective and goals.
> 
> •  The objective of the Arab Palestinian was to "prevent" the Jewish People from achieving an independent state.  _(The goal was NOT directed at achieving independence for themselves.)_  (PREVENTION)
> 
> •  The objective of the Jewish People was to "achieving" an independent state.  _(The goal was NOT to prevent or hinder the Arab Palestinian from achieving independence.)_ (ACHIEVEMENT)​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was Israel created as part of the resolution 181 process or was it a unilateral move?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel was a creation of the Jewish People through their exercise of "collective self-determination;" nation building.  It was the national aspiration deemed necessary as a matter of cultural self preservation.
> 
> The GA Resolution 181 was the "*HOW TO BOOK*" by the UN and the recommendations of the Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP).  It was the UNSCOP that wrote the "Steps Preparatory to Independence"  _(the "HOW")_ and it was the General Assembly that adopted the recommendation as the proper steps _(international consensus)_.  BUT is was the Jewish People that initiated the action, completed the process to the extent possible _(opposed by Powerful Arab Forces)_, and declared independence.
> 
> It was the collective decision of the Arab League to use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state (external interference).  A violation of the Article 2(4) Principle of the UN Charter.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The objective of the Arab Palestinian was to "prevent" the Jewish People from achieving an independent state. _(The goal was NOT directed at achieving independence for themselves.)_ (PREVENTION)​
> Why do you set up a false premise to base your posts?
> 
> The Palestinians consistently lobbied Britain for their independence and self determination. Of course this was consistently ignored. Any move toward independence by the Palestinians was crushed by Britain. Their organizations and institutions were closed down. Their leaders were arrested, exiled, or killed. They were strictly forbidden from forming any means of defense.
> 
> You portray this as a lack of desire or competence to gain independence.
Click to expand...





 LINK ?   As the evidence shows the foreign arabs demanded the land be given to them to rule over as they saw fit. They did not want the Jews to be allowed to create a nation because that would be a massive loss of face for them again. The indigenous arab muslims are the ones that stayed on in 1948 and are now full Israeli citizens.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Again NONSENSE.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The rights laid down in resolution 3236 had already gained some legitimacy by the time of the Mandate period. The right to self determination was demanded by the Palestinians consistantly at that time.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Resolution 3236 was adopted as NON-BINDING in 1974.  Even if it was law, it cannot be applied retroactively.
> 
> Demonstrate how 1974 NON-BINDING Resolution pertaining to "self-determination" and "independence and sovereignty" (neither having yet been adopted) "already gained some legitimacy by the time of the Mandate period."  The Mandate extends safeguards to civil and religious rights --- not "self-determination and sovereignty."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Referencing an already existing international law is not the start date for that law. Why are you trying to confuse people?

!948 Palestinian declaration of independence,

I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR *SELF-DETERMINATION* WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR * INDEPENDENCE,*​

Did they just pull that out of their ass?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Again NONSENSE.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The rights laid down in resolution 3236 had already gained some legitimacy by the time of the Mandate period. The right to self determination was demanded by the Palestinians consistantly at that time.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Resolution 3236 was adopted as NON-BINDING in 1974.  Even if it was law, it cannot be applied retroactively.
> 
> Demonstrate how 1974 NON-BINDING Resolution pertaining to "self-determination" and "independence and sovereignty" (neither having yet been adopted) "already gained some legitimacy by the time of the Mandate period."  The Mandate extends safeguards to civil and religious rights --- not "self-determination and sovereignty."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Referencing an already existing international law is not the start date for that law. Why are you trying to confuse people?
> 
> !948 Palestinian declaration of independence,
> 
> I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR *SELF-DETERMINATION* WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR * INDEPENDENCE,*​
> 
> Did they just pull that out of their ass?
Click to expand...





 So one instance or foreign interference claiming a right that did not exist at that time. Now once again how did the British stop the arab muslims from exercising self determination, as the were practising it all along. The very act of violence is an act of self determination that backfired on the arab musl.ims many times.


----------



## American_Jihad

*No, Mr. President -- Values Are Not Universal*
* The telling example of the Palestinian death cult. *
November 30, 2015
P. David Hornik





“An attack on all of humanity and the universal values we share,” was what President Obama called the Paris terror attack. As commentators have pointed out, it’s unfortunately not so; Western values, even including the sanctity of life, are not shared by all of humanity and do not necessarily prevail in some parts of the world.

Here in Israel, where we’ve been under an assault variously dubbed the Knives Intifada or the *Children’s Intifada* for two months, it’s impossible not to be aware of a lack of universality of values. Many, but not all, of the examples I give below (which, of course, are far from comprehensive) are taken from Palestinian warfare.

_Combatants and noncombatants_. This is a Western distinction that is often conspicuously lacking in other parts of the world. While Palestinians sometimes attack Israeli security personnel, they more often attack Israeli civilians. Age and gender, of course, are of no consequence; the concept of the “enemy” is tribal and includes any and all Israeli Jews at any and all times. The principle of tribal assault applies, of course, in surrounding countries as well. The only reason Israelis are not massacred on the same scale as Syrians, Iraqis, Sudanese, and others is Israel’s military and security capability. What happened in Paris was a Middle Eastern tribal assault, not just an attack by lone “terrorists.”

*Human shields.* Whereas Western countries do not use the human-shield strategy, in another part of the world it is increasingly common. Before the 1991 Gulf War, Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein detained Westerners and used them as human shields. Hamas has extensively used the strategy in the three Gaza wars (2008-2009, 2012, 2014) with Israel. Hizballah has turned tens of thousands of southern Lebanese villagers into human shields for the next war with Israel, with rocket launchers installed in private homes. Islamic State is, of course, using the strategy in Iraq and Syria. In other words, at least in the cases of Hamas and Hizballah, the combatant-noncombatant distinction is further violated as civilians _on one’s own side_ are “drafted” for a role in combat. Voices of protest are not heard; Hamas remains popular with Palestinians, and Hizballah with Lebanese Shiites.

*Children*. Not only are “enemy” children attacked, and children on one’s own side “drafted” as human-shield combatants, but children are often turned, explicitly or by encouragement, into warriors. Examples are legion. Among others, Iran sacrificed tens of thousands of Iranian children as soldiers in the Iran-Iraq war. Boko Haram is training and deploying child soldiers as young as 10. In the current Palestinian intifada, as Israeli columnist and author Nadav Shragai reported on Friday:

According to data provided by the Shin Bet security agency, the average age of 80% of the terrorists in the current surge of violence has been 20. The terrorist who stabbed four Israelis in Kiryat Gat on Saturday was only 17. One of the attackers in Pisgat Ze’ev last month was only 12; an 11-year-old and a 14-year-old stabbed a security guard on the Jerusalem light rail this month; and the girls who stabbed a man with scissors at the Jerusalem Mahane Yehuda market this week were 14 and 16.

_Babies_. In the same article Shragai goes on to report:

now the Palestinian indoctrination mechanism is even recruiting babies…. Dozens of photos of babies and very young children holding knives that someone stuffed into their tiny hands have been littering social media sites, along with war slogans and other violent texts. The juxtaposition between their innocent, sweet faces and the knives and violent language is immensely disturbing.

Disturbing, and not part of “universal values we all share” (pictures here).

_Sanctity of medical care_. In the Western world, ambulances are used as ambulances and not for other purposes, and injured people are taken to hospitals. But even these are not “universal values.” During the Second Intifada (2000-2004), as this summary notes, terrorists frequently used ambulances as a means to transport bombs, guns and other weapons. Many of the terrorists who triggered suicide bombings in Israel gained access to the country by driving or riding in Red Crescent ambulances.

In a Palestinian terror attack near Hebron on November 15 that killed Rabbi Ya’akov Litman (40) and his son Netanel (18),

...

No, Mr. President -- Values Are Not Universal


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici,  et al,

You are correct in terms of it being a "major right" and the first article. But you are not so right in terms of application.



montelatici said:


> The Mandate did forbid the ceding of Palestine territory to any foreign power and it was the responsibility of the Mandatory to prevent the placement of Palestine territory under control of the Government of any foreign power. Being from another continent is about as foreign as it gets.
> 
> "The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of the Government of any foreign Power."
> 
> Self-determination is one of the major civil rights. In fact, it is the first civil right called out in the Covenant on Civil Rights.
> 
> "_*Article 1*_
> 
> *1. All peoples have the right of self-determination.* By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
> 
> 2. All peoples may, for their own ends, freely dispose of their natural wealth and resources without prejudice to any obligations arising out of international economic co-operation, based upon the principle of mutual benefit, and international law. In no case may a people be deprived of its own means of subsistence.
> 
> 3. The States Parties to the present Covenant, including those having responsibility for the administration of Non-Self-Governing and Trust Territories, shall promote the realization of the right of self-determination, and shall respect that right, in conformity with the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations....."


*(COMMENT)*

The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) Adopted and opened for signature, ratification and accession by General Assembly resolution 2200A (XXI) of 16 December 1966, entry into force 23 March 1976, in accordance with Article 49.  That is more than a quarter century ago after Israel declared independence; nearly a decade after the 1967 Six-Day War; and three years after the Yom Kipper War of 1973.

The Mandate of Palestine limits the Mandatory from any action not explicitly approved by the Council of the League Of Nations.  However the Mandate did not place any limit on the Council of the League Of Nations or the successor.  No Palestinian territory was ceded or leased.   Israel assumed sovereignty;  in the context of international law,  acquisition of territory was by means of asserting of a new sovereignty in the absence of sovereign power.   The status of _res nullius __(prior sovereign has implicitly relinquished sovereignty)_ with the western powers _(acting on behalf of the Allied Powers)_ affirming a new sovereignty via UN Resolution 273 (III) Admission of Israel to Membership.

The Mandatory DID NOT placed the territory under the control of the Government of any foreign Power.  The Mandate placed the British Government with  full powers of legislation and of administration as agreed upon by the Allied Powers.  The Jewish State of Israel was not established until the withdrawal of the British Government and the termination of the Mandate.

There is no record of an action taken in this regard in contravention to the Mandate.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

This is months after the Israeli Declaration.



P F Tinmore said:


> Referencing an already existing international law is not the start date for that law. Why are you trying to confuse people?
> 
> !948 Palestinian declaration of independence,
> 
> I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR *SELF-DETERMINATION* WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR * INDEPENDENCE,*​
> 
> Did they just pull that out of their ass?


*(COMMENT)*

This was written in 1948 _(4 months after Israeli Independence)_, three years after the Article I of the UN Charter from which the language originates.  In fact, it say it is from the Charter.  However, the Arab Palestinians did not have control over the territory. 

No non-self-governing institution can just claim sovereignty over a country that is already under another recognized sovereignty.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

Challenge,  et al,

No,   YOU ARE CORRECT.



Challenger said:


> The fact is, that "after using the "restoring peace and security" excuse --- they captured territory that was allocated for the Arab State" in order to prevent it falling into the hands of the Zionists (or Abdullah, which was both Syria's and Iraq's primary objective).
> 
> The fact that Jordan's Abdullah had already agreed to divide Palestine between the Zionists and himself is irrelevant as regards the intention of the Arab intervention in Palestine. It puts paid to the myth that the Arabs were agressors and intended to "drive the Jews into the sea" or that at any point there was an existential threat to Zionist Israel.
> 
> Interesting that the UNSC did not condemn the Arab intervention as agression and the fact that this was two months following the original intervention. Neither do the UNSC resolutions you mention or cite Article 2 (4) of the Charter which indicates the UNSC did not consider the Arab intervention a violation of said article.
> 
> As an aside, I wonder who murdered the UN mediator mentioned in the UNSC resolutions in order to prevent him carrying out his function?


*(COMMENT)*

The UNSC focused on ACTION WITH RESPECT TO THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE, AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION (Chapter VII - Articles 39 and 40).

You will notice that UNSC RES 54 states that:

Taking into consideration that the Provisional Government of Israel has indicated its acceptance in principle of a prolongation of the truce in Palestine that the States members of *the Arab League have rejected successive appeals of the United Nations Mediator*, and of the Security Council in its resolution 53 (1948) of 7 July 1948, for the prolongation of the truce in Palestine; and that there has consequently developed a renewal of hostilities in Palestine,

_3._ Declares that *failure by any of the Governments* or authorities concerned to comply with the preceding paragraph of this resolution would demonstrate the *existence of a breach of the peace within the meaning of **Article 39* of the Charter requiting immediate consideration by the Security Council with a view to such further action under Chapter VII of the Charter as may be decided upon by the Council;

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Challenge,  et al,
> 
> No,   YOU ARE CORRECT.
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is, that "after using the "restoring peace and security" excuse --- they captured territory that was allocated for the Arab State" in order to prevent it falling into the hands of the Zionists (or Abdullah, which was both Syria's and Iraq's primary objective).
> 
> The fact that Jordan's Abdullah had already agreed to divide Palestine between the Zionists and himself is irrelevant as regards the intention of the Arab intervention in Palestine. It puts paid to the myth that the Arabs were agressors and intended to "drive the Jews into the sea" or that at any point there was an existential threat to Zionist Israel.
> 
> Interesting that the UNSC did not condemn the Arab intervention as agression and the fact that this was two months following the original intervention. Neither do the UNSC resolutions you mention or cite Article 2 (4) of the Charter which indicates the UNSC did not consider the Arab intervention a violation of said article.
> 
> As an aside, I wonder who murdered the UN mediator mentioned in the UNSC resolutions in order to prevent him carrying out his function?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The UNSC focused on ACTION WITH RESPECT TO THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE, AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION (Chapter VII - Articles 39 and 40).
> 
> You will notice that UNSC RES 54 states that:
> 
> Taking into consideration that the Provisional Government of Israel has indicated its acceptance in principle of a prolongation of the truce in Palestine that the States members of *the Arab League have rejected successive appeals of the United Nations Mediator*, and of the Security Council in its resolution 53 (1948) of 7 July 1948, for the prolongation of the truce in Palestine; and that there has consequently developed a renewal of hostilities in Palestine,
> 
> _3._ Declares that *failure by any of the Governments* or authorities concerned to comply with the preceding paragraph of this resolution would demonstrate the *existence of a breach of the peace within the meaning of **Article 39* of the Charter requiting immediate consideration by the Security Council with a view to such further action under Chapter VII of the Charter as may be decided upon by the Council;
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

There is nothing about the 1948 war that has any affect whatsoever on Palestine's legal status.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> This is months after the Israeli Declaration.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Referencing an already existing international law is not the start date for that law. Why are you trying to confuse people?
> 
> !948 Palestinian declaration of independence,
> 
> I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR *SELF-DETERMINATION* WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR * INDEPENDENCE,*​
> 
> Did they just pull that out of their ass?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This was written in 1948 _(4 months after Israeli Independence)_, three years after the Article I of the UN Charter from which the language originates.  In fact, it say it is from the Charter.  However, the Arab Palestinians did not have control over the territory.
> 
> No non-self-governing institution can just claim sovereignty over a country that is already under another recognized sovereignty.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

This is months after the Israeli Declaration.​
So?

Israel claimed no land nor did it define any borders in its declaration of independence.

On the other hand, Palestine claimed its own land defined by its own international borders. There was no conflict between Palestine's declaration and Israel's.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Well that depends on what you are talking about.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Challenge,  et al,
> 
> No,   YOU ARE CORRECT.
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is, that "after using the "restoring peace and security" excuse --- they captured territory that was allocated for the Arab State" in order to prevent it falling into the hands of the Zionists (or Abdullah, which was both Syria's and Iraq's primary objective).
> 
> The fact that Jordan's Abdullah had already agreed to divide Palestine between the Zionists and himself is irrelevant as regards the intention of the Arab intervention in Palestine. It puts paid to the myth that the Arabs were agressors and intended to "drive the Jews into the sea" or that at any point there was an existential threat to Zionist Israel.
> 
> Interesting that the UNSC did not condemn the Arab intervention as aggression and the fact that this was two months following the original intervention. Neither do the UNSC resolutions you mention or cite Article 2 (4) of the Charter which indicates the UNSC did not consider the Arab intervention a violation of said article.
> 
> As an aside, I wonder who murdered the UN mediator mentioned in the UNSC resolutions in order to prevent him carrying out his function?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The UNSC focused on ACTION WITH RESPECT TO THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE, AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION (Chapter VII - Articles 39 and 40).
> 
> You will notice that UNSC RES 54 states that:
> 
> Taking into consideration that the Provisional Government of Israel has indicated its acceptance in principle of a prolongation of the truce in Palestine that the States members of *the Arab League have rejected successive appeals of the United Nations Mediator*, and of the Security Council in its resolution 53 (1948) of 7 July 1948, for the prolongation of the truce in Palestine; and that there has consequently developed a renewal of hostilities in Palestine,
> 
> _3._ Declares that *failure by any of the Governments* or authorities concerned to comply with the preceding paragraph of this resolution would demonstrate the *existence of a breach of the peace within the meaning of **Article 39* of the Charter requiting immediate consideration by the Security Council with a view to such further action under Chapter VII of the Charter as may be decided upon by the Council;
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is nothing about the 1948 war that has any affect whatsoever on Palestine's legal status.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Technically, the Mandate is terminated (15 MAY 48).   The remainder of the territory, formerly under the Mandate, became the Jewish State of Israel under siege by the combined forces of the Arab League _(creating an Chapter VII --- Article 39 condition)_ with the Hostile Arab Palestinian irregular insurgents. 

S/775  24 May 1948:  Arabs claim to have authority over all the area of Palestine as being the political representative of the overwhelming majority of the population. They regard Palestine a one unit. All forces that oppose majority wherever they may be are regarded as unlawful.

To a certain extent --- you are correct.   The Arab Palestinians had very little impact on the legal status of post-Partitioned Palestine.  The outcome of the Armistice placed the Green Line superimposed on the Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA).  (Superseded by the Peace Treaties.)  The Green Line was dissolved and the permanent international boundaries were established pursuant to the treaties; without prejudice to the violent prone Arab Palestinians.  The status would not change until 1988; when without interference from the Israelis, the PLO Declared Independence.  It was at that time, the territory beyond the recognized Israeli borders _(what was described as occupied since 1967)_ became the provision State of Palestine.

​
The territory governed under Israeli sovereignty did meet two criteria.  For the Declaratory Theory of Sovereignty and the practical application to be effective: 

(i) Intention to defend the territory. Such intention must be formally expressed and it must be permanent.
(ii) The territory defended against the Aggressor Arab League and Hostile Arab Palestinians was peaceful, over a significant period.  ​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well that depends on what you are talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Challenge,  et al,
> 
> No,   YOU ARE CORRECT.
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is, that "after using the "restoring peace and security" excuse --- they captured territory that was allocated for the Arab State" in order to prevent it falling into the hands of the Zionists (or Abdullah, which was both Syria's and Iraq's primary objective).
> 
> The fact that Jordan's Abdullah had already agreed to divide Palestine between the Zionists and himself is irrelevant as regards the intention of the Arab intervention in Palestine. It puts paid to the myth that the Arabs were agressors and intended to "drive the Jews into the sea" or that at any point there was an existential threat to Zionist Israel.
> 
> Interesting that the UNSC did not condemn the Arab intervention as aggression and the fact that this was two months following the original intervention. Neither do the UNSC resolutions you mention or cite Article 2 (4) of the Charter which indicates the UNSC did not consider the Arab intervention a violation of said article.
> 
> As an aside, I wonder who murdered the UN mediator mentioned in the UNSC resolutions in order to prevent him carrying out his function?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The UNSC focused on ACTION WITH RESPECT TO THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE, AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION (Chapter VII - Articles 39 and 40).
> 
> You will notice that UNSC RES 54 states that:
> 
> Taking into consideration that the Provisional Government of Israel has indicated its acceptance in principle of a prolongation of the truce in Palestine that the States members of *the Arab League have rejected successive appeals of the United Nations Mediator*, and of the Security Council in its resolution 53 (1948) of 7 July 1948, for the prolongation of the truce in Palestine; and that there has consequently developed a renewal of hostilities in Palestine,
> 
> _3._ Declares that *failure by any of the Governments* or authorities concerned to comply with the preceding paragraph of this resolution would demonstrate the *existence of a breach of the peace within the meaning of **Article 39* of the Charter requiting immediate consideration by the Security Council with a view to such further action under Chapter VII of the Charter as may be decided upon by the Council;
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is nothing about the 1948 war that has any affect whatsoever on Palestine's legal status.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Technically, the Mandate is terminated (15 MAY 48).   The remainder of the territory, formerly under the Mandate, became the Jewish State of Israel under siege by the combined forces of the Arab League _(creating an Chapter VII --- Article 39 condition)_ with the Hostile Arab Palestinian irregular insurgents.
> 
> S/775  24 May 1948:  Arabs claim to have authority over all the area of Palestine as being the political representative of the overwhelming majority of the population. They regard Palestine a one unit. All forces that oppose majority wherever they may be are regarded as unlawful.
> 
> To a certain extent --- you are correct.   The Arab Palestinians had very little impact on the legal status of post-Partitioned Palestine.  The outcome of the Armistice placed the Green Line superimposed on the Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA).  (Superseded by the Peace Treaties.)  The Green Line was dissolved and the permanent international boundaries were established pursuant to the treaties; without prejudice to the violent prone Arab Palestinians.  The status would not change until 1988; when without interference from the Israelis, the PLO Declared Independence.  It was at that time, the territory beyond the recognized Israeli borders _(what was described as occupied since 1967)_ became the provision State of Palestine.
> 
> View attachment 55951​
> The territory governed under Israeli sovereignty did meet two criteria.  For the Declaratory Theory of Sovereignty and the practical application to be effective:
> 
> (i) Intention to defend the territory. Such intention must be formally expressed and it must be permanent.
> (ii) The territory defended against the Aggressor Arab League and Hostile Arab Palestinians was peaceful, over a significant period.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

(ii) The territory defended against the Aggressor Arab League and Hostile Arab Palestinians was peaceful, over a significant period.​
The territory has never been peaceful as required.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

No, you have it wrong.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> (ii) The territory defended against the Aggressor Arab League and Hostile Arab Palestinians was peaceful, over a significant period.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> The territory has never been peaceful as required.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Today, the physically erected border between Israel and the West Bank is the first area of consideration.  The area East of the erected border is considered the West Bank.  And you would be correct.  That particular area is dominated be Hostile Area Palestinians, and has not been peaceful.  However, the West side of the boundary, has not had a history of an insurgency, or a jihadist movement operating and creating a lack of law and order.  It has been relatively peaceful; except for Hostile Arab Palestinians that infiltrate. 

Similarly, the boundary around the Gaza Strip has a very Hostile Arab Palestinian content.  But on the Israeli side of the boundary, there is a remarkable peaceful environment.

In both cases, law and order --- or --- the threat to the peace or acts of aggression, were then --- and are now --- originating largely from Hostile Arab Palestinians in residence outside Israel and mostly from the West Bank, Gaza Strip area.

It should be noted that virtually nothing associated with the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, contributes to a peaceful and positive developing culture.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> No, you have it wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> (ii) The territory defended against the Aggressor Arab League and Hostile Arab Palestinians was peaceful, over a significant period.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> The territory has never been peaceful as required.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Today, the physically erected border between Israel and the West Bank is the first area of consideration.  The area East of the erected border is considered the West Bank.  And you would be correct.  That particular area is dominated be Hostile Area Palestinians, and has not been peaceful.  However, the West side of the boundary, has not had a history of an insurgency, or a jihadist movement operating and creating a lack of law and order.  It has been relatively peaceful; except for Hostile Arab Palestinians that infiltrate.
> 
> Similarly, the boundary around the Gaza Strip has a very Hostile Arab Palestinian content.  But on the Israeli side of the boundary, there is a remarkable peaceful environment.
> 
> In both cases, law and order --- or --- the threat to the peace or acts of aggression, were then --- and are now --- originating largely from Hostile Arab Palestinians in residence outside Israel and mostly from the West Bank, Gaza Strip area.
> 
> It should be noted that virtually nothing associated with the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, contributes to a peaceful and positive developing culture.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I wonder how an area that is occupied and patrolled by the Vicious Israeli Occupier (VIO) can be considered dominated by the occupied.  It is "Rocco LogicTM".


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Peacefulness is not based on the violence caused by the War Criminals, terrorist, insurgents, jihadist, etc that infiltrate and target civilians FROM another territory.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well that depends on what you are talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Challenge,  et al,
> 
> No,   YOU ARE CORRECT.
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is, that "after using the "restoring peace and security" excuse --- they captured territory that was allocated for the Arab State" in order to prevent it falling into the hands of the Zionists (or Abdullah, which was both Syria's and Iraq's primary objective).
> 
> The fact that Jordan's Abdullah had already agreed to divide Palestine between the Zionists and himself is irrelevant as regards the intention of the Arab intervention in Palestine. It puts paid to the myth that the Arabs were agressors and intended to "drive the Jews into the sea" or that at any point there was an existential threat to Zionist Israel.
> 
> Interesting that the UNSC did not condemn the Arab intervention as aggression and the fact that this was two months following the original intervention. Neither do the UNSC resolutions you mention or cite Article 2 (4) of the Charter which indicates the UNSC did not consider the Arab intervention a violation of said article.
> 
> As an aside, I wonder who murdered the UN mediator mentioned in the UNSC resolutions in order to prevent him carrying out his function?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The UNSC focused on ACTION WITH RESPECT TO THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE, AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION (Chapter VII - Articles 39 and 40).
> 
> You will notice that UNSC RES 54 states that:
> 
> Taking into consideration that the Provisional Government of Israel has indicated its acceptance in principle of a prolongation of the truce in Palestine that the States members of *the Arab League have rejected successive appeals of the United Nations Mediator*, and of the Security Council in its resolution 53 (1948) of 7 July 1948, for the prolongation of the truce in Palestine; and that there has consequently developed a renewal of hostilities in Palestine,
> 
> _3._ Declares that *failure by any of the Governments* or authorities concerned to comply with the preceding paragraph of this resolution would demonstrate the *existence of a breach of the peace within the meaning of **Article 39* of the Charter requiting immediate consideration by the Security Council with a view to such further action under Chapter VII of the Charter as may be decided upon by the Council;
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is nothing about the 1948 war that has any affect whatsoever on Palestine's legal status.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Technically, the Mandate is terminated (15 MAY 48).   The remainder of the territory, formerly under the Mandate, became the Jewish State of Israel under siege by the combined forces of the Arab League _(creating an Chapter VII --- Article 39 condition)_ with the Hostile Arab Palestinian irregular insurgents.
> 
> S/775  24 May 1948:  Arabs claim to have authority over all the area of Palestine as being the political representative of the overwhelming majority of the population. They regard Palestine a one unit. All forces that oppose majority wherever they may be are regarded as unlawful.
> 
> To a certain extent --- you are correct.   The Arab Palestinians had very little impact on the legal status of post-Partitioned Palestine.  The outcome of the Armistice placed the Green Line superimposed on the Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA).  (Superseded by the Peace Treaties.)  The Green Line was dissolved and the permanent international boundaries were established pursuant to the treaties; without prejudice to the violent prone Arab Palestinians.  The status would not change until 1988; when without interference from the Israelis, the PLO Declared Independence.  It was at that time, the territory beyond the recognized Israeli borders _(what was described as occupied since 1967)_ became the provision State of Palestine.
> 
> View attachment 55951​
> The territory governed under Israeli sovereignty did meet two criteria.  For the Declaratory Theory of Sovereignty and the practical application to be effective:
> 
> (i) Intention to defend the territory. Such intention must be formally expressed and it must be permanent.
> (ii) The territory defended against the Aggressor Arab League and Hostile Arab Palestinians was peaceful, over a significant period.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> (ii) The territory defended against the Aggressor Arab League and Hostile Arab Palestinians was peaceful, over a significant period.​
> The territory has never been peaceful as required.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Terrorist, insurgents, jihadist and other criminal assailants from the territories outside Israel are not what they are talking about.  In fact, if the Hostile Arab Palestinian from the West Bank or Gaza Strip were attempting to alter the course of action or disrupt the sovereign integrity of the State of Israel, then that (by definition) would be terrorism.  The peacefulness is base on the acceptance by the Israeli citizens.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> No, you have it wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> (ii) The territory defended against the Aggressor Arab League and Hostile Arab Palestinians was peaceful, over a significant period.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> The territory has never been peaceful as required.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Today, the physically erected border between Israel and the West Bank is the first area of consideration.  The area East of the erected border is considered the West Bank.  And you would be correct.  That particular area is dominated be Hostile Area Palestinians, and has not been peaceful.  However, the West side of the boundary, has not had a history of an insurgency, or a jihadist movement operating and creating a lack of law and order.  It has been relatively peaceful; except for Hostile Arab Palestinians that infiltrate.
> 
> Similarly, the boundary around the Gaza Strip has a very Hostile Arab Palestinian content.  But on the Israeli side of the boundary, there is a remarkable peaceful environment.
> 
> In both cases, law and order --- or --- the threat to the peace or acts of aggression, were then --- and are now --- originating largely from Hostile Arab Palestinians in residence outside Israel and mostly from the West Bank, Gaza Strip area.
> 
> It should be noted that virtually nothing associated with the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, contributes to a peaceful and positive developing culture.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Hogwash!

There is violence all of the time. Most of it is against Palestinians. Your Israeli propaganda just doesn't report it so you wouldn't know.

Israeli goontards in action.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Challenge,  et al,
> 
> No,   YOU ARE CORRECT.
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is, that "after using the "restoring peace and security" excuse --- they captured territory that was allocated for the Arab State" in order to prevent it falling into the hands of the Zionists (or Abdullah, which was both Syria's and Iraq's primary objective).
> 
> The fact that Jordan's Abdullah had already agreed to divide Palestine between the Zionists and himself is irrelevant as regards the intention of the Arab intervention in Palestine. It puts paid to the myth that the Arabs were agressors and intended to "drive the Jews into the sea" or that at any point there was an existential threat to Zionist Israel.
> 
> Interesting that the UNSC did not condemn the Arab intervention as agression and the fact that this was two months following the original intervention. Neither do the UNSC resolutions you mention or cite Article 2 (4) of the Charter which indicates the UNSC did not consider the Arab intervention a violation of said article.
> 
> As an aside, I wonder who murdered the UN mediator mentioned in the UNSC resolutions in order to prevent him carrying out his function?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The UNSC focused on ACTION WITH RESPECT TO THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE, AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION (Chapter VII - Articles 39 and 40).
> 
> You will notice that UNSC RES 54 states that:
> 
> Taking into consideration that the Provisional Government of Israel has indicated its acceptance in principle of a prolongation of the truce in Palestine that the States members of *the Arab League have rejected successive appeals of the United Nations Mediator*, and of the Security Council in its resolution 53 (1948) of 7 July 1948, for the prolongation of the truce in Palestine; and that there has consequently developed a renewal of hostilities in Palestine,
> 
> _3._ Declares that *failure by any of the Governments* or authorities concerned to comply with the preceding paragraph of this resolution would demonstrate the *existence of a breach of the peace within the meaning of **Article 39* of the Charter requiting immediate consideration by the Security Council with a view to such further action under Chapter VII of the Charter as may be decided upon by the Council;
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is nothing about the 1948 war that has any affect whatsoever on Palestine's legal status.
Click to expand...







 Correct as it was Jewish Palestine as shown by the LoN mandate of Palestine, which gave the land to the Jews. The arab muslims had two choices stay as peaceful Israeli citizens or leave as enemies of Israel. The majority chose the later and are still paying the price today.

 Now what exactly was Palestine's legal status in 1948 ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Challenge,  et al,
> 
> No,   YOU ARE CORRECT.
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is, that "after using the "restoring peace and security" excuse --- they captured territory that was allocated for the Arab State" in order to prevent it falling into the hands of the Zionists (or Abdullah, which was both Syria's and Iraq's primary objective).
> 
> The fact that Jordan's Abdullah had already agreed to divide Palestine between the Zionists and himself is irrelevant as regards the intention of the Arab intervention in Palestine. It puts paid to the myth that the Arabs were agressors and intended to "drive the Jews into the sea" or that at any point there was an existential threat to Zionist Israel.
> 
> Interesting that the UNSC did not condemn the Arab intervention as agression and the fact that this was two months following the original intervention. Neither do the UNSC resolutions you mention or cite Article 2 (4) of the Charter which indicates the UNSC did not consider the Arab intervention a violation of said article.
> 
> As an aside, I wonder who murdered the UN mediator mentioned in the UNSC resolutions in order to prevent him carrying out his function?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The UNSC focused on ACTION WITH RESPECT TO THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE, AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION (Chapter VII - Articles 39 and 40).
> 
> You will notice that UNSC RES 54 states that:
> 
> Taking into consideration that the Provisional Government of Israel has indicated its acceptance in principle of a prolongation of the truce in Palestine that the States members of *the Arab League have rejected successive appeals of the United Nations Mediator*, and of the Security Council in its resolution 53 (1948) of 7 July 1948, for the prolongation of the truce in Palestine; and that there has consequently developed a renewal of hostilities in Palestine,
> 
> _3._ Declares that *failure by any of the Governments* or authorities concerned to comply with the preceding paragraph of this resolution would demonstrate the *existence of a breach of the peace within the meaning of **Article 39* of the Charter requiting immediate consideration by the Security Council with a view to such further action under Chapter VII of the Charter as may be decided upon by the Council;
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is nothing about the 1948 war that has any affect whatsoever on Palestine's legal status.
Click to expand...







 Correct as it was Jewish Palestine as shown by the LoN mandate of Palestine, which gave the land to the Jews. The arab muslims had two choices stay as peaceful Israeli citizens or leave as enemies of Israel. The majority chose the later and are still paying the price today.

 Now what exactly was Palestine's legal status in 1948 ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> This is months after the Israeli Declaration.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Referencing an already existing international law is not the start date for that law. Why are you trying to confuse people?
> 
> !948 Palestinian declaration of independence,
> 
> I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR *SELF-DETERMINATION* WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR * INDEPENDENCE,*​
> 
> Did they just pull that out of their ass?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This was written in 1948 _(4 months after Israeli Independence)_, three years after the Article I of the UN Charter from which the language originates.  In fact, it say it is from the Charter.  However, the Arab Palestinians did not have control over the territory.
> 
> No non-self-governing institution can just claim sovereignty over a country that is already under another recognized sovereignty.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is months after the Israeli Declaration.​
> So?
> 
> Israel claimed no land nor did it define any borders in its declaration of independence.
> 
> On the other hand, Palestine claimed its own land defined by its own international borders. There was no conflict between Palestine's declaration and Israel's.
Click to expand...






 What international borders were those, as the only ones at the time were the ones for the Jewish mandate of Palestine. These were the ones implied in the Israeli declaration of independence. As an aside the Egyptian Palestinian declaration was outside influence that had no control or right to make decisions for the arab muslims.

 There was a major conflict in the fact that Israel already existed before the Egyptians tried to declare on their land.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> No, you have it wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> (ii) The territory defended against the Aggressor Arab League and Hostile Arab Palestinians was peaceful, over a significant period.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> The territory has never been peaceful as required.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Today, the physically erected border between Israel and the West Bank is the first area of consideration.  The area East of the erected border is considered the West Bank.  And you would be correct.  That particular area is dominated be Hostile Area Palestinians, and has not been peaceful.  However, the West side of the boundary, has not had a history of an insurgency, or a jihadist movement operating and creating a lack of law and order.  It has been relatively peaceful; except for Hostile Arab Palestinians that infiltrate.
> 
> Similarly, the boundary around the Gaza Strip has a very Hostile Arab Palestinian content.  But on the Israeli side of the boundary, there is a remarkable peaceful environment.
> 
> In both cases, law and order --- or --- the threat to the peace or acts of aggression, were then --- and are now --- originating largely from Hostile Arab Palestinians in residence outside Israel and mostly from the West Bank, Gaza Strip area.
> 
> It should be noted that virtually nothing associated with the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, contributes to a peaceful and positive developing culture.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hogwash!
> 
> There is violence all of the time. Most of it is against Palestinians. Your Israeli propaganda just doesn't report it so you wouldn't know.
> 
> Israeli goontards in action.
Click to expand...






 That is what happens to criminals, terrorists and squatters the world over. Like the Palestinians did to the Jews in 1949 when they murdered them to steal their property in the west bank.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> No, you have it wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> (ii) The territory defended against the Aggressor Arab League and Hostile Arab Palestinians was peaceful, over a significant period.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> The territory has never been peaceful as required.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Today, the physically erected border between Israel and the West Bank is the first area of consideration.  The area East of the erected border is considered the West Bank.  And you would be correct.  That particular area is dominated be Hostile Area Palestinians, and has not been peaceful.  However, the West side of the boundary, has not had a history of an insurgency, or a jihadist movement operating and creating a lack of law and order.  It has been relatively peaceful; except for Hostile Arab Palestinians that infiltrate.
> 
> Similarly, the boundary around the Gaza Strip has a very Hostile Arab Palestinian content.  But on the Israeli side of the boundary, there is a remarkable peaceful environment.
> 
> In both cases, law and order --- or --- the threat to the peace or acts of aggression, were then --- and are now --- originating largely from Hostile Arab Palestinians in residence outside Israel and mostly from the West Bank, Gaza Strip area.
> 
> It should be noted that virtually nothing associated with the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, contributes to a peaceful and positive developing culture.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wonder how an area that is occupied and patrolled by the Vicious Israeli Occupier (VIO) can be considered dominated by the occupied.  It is "Rocco LogicTM".
Click to expand...






 Demographics, which you are a self convinced expert on the way you use them to advocate violence against the Jews.


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani,  et al,
> 
> Oh come now!  Is that really accurate?  Is it really close to the truth?
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look phoney you are full of hate and you are earning by spreading hate, tell us how much you earned as propagandist.
> 
> 
> 
> *(EXAMPLES)*
> 
> What are these examples of?
> 
> Spreading Hate
> Bring Hate
> Preventing Peace
> Band #1:
> 
> *Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate - Columbia Daily ...*
> www.columbiatribune.com/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/arab...
> Jan 24, *2015 *· Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate - Columbia Daily Tribune: Letters To The Editor Opinion ... Open Column Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate.
> 
> *Pro-Palestinian students bring hate, intimidation to ...*
> www.foxnews.com/us/2014/06/09/pro-palestinian-students-bring-hate...
> Jun 09, *2014* · ... hateful rhetoric.Students for Justice in Palestine has ... Palestinian students bring hate, ... students in America uncomfortable on campus seems ...
> 
> *How Palestinian Hate Prevents Peace - The New York Times*
> www.nytimes.com/2013/10/16/opinion/how-palestinian-hate-prevents...
> Oct 15, *2013* · How Palestinian Hate Prevents Peace. By YUVAL STEINITZ ...Palestinian leaders must now reciprocate by immediately and fully halting their …​Band #2:
> 
> *Hamas Rejects UN Textbooks for Teaching Non-Violence*
> www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-bashes-unrwas-human-rights-corriculum
> ... [in the books] refer to [Mahatma] Gandhi, Martin ... The Palestinian narrative was also ... the universal values that underpin the work of the United Nations. ...
> 
> *6000 Boys Graduate Palestinian Islamic Jihad Terrorist ...*
> www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/6000-boys-graduate...
> Aug 19, 2015 · The Iranian-backed Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist organization held a graduation ceremony Tuesday for the 6,000 Gaza boys who this summer attended …
> 
> *Kid Jihad” Summer Training Camp: Blood, Fire & AK-47’s ...*
> patriotupdate.com/kid-jihad-summer-training-camp-blood-fire-ak-47s
> Tens of thousands of Palestinian children hurried to register for Terrorists (summer) training camp 101 and to attend programs which indoctrinate the youngsters in ...
> 
> *Camp Jihad’: U.N.-Sponsored Camps Encourage Palestinian ...*
> www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/14/camp-jihad-u-n-sponsored-camps...
> Summer at United Nations-funded camps in Gaza and the northern West Bank include playing with parachutes, jumping on trampolines, and racing down inflatable slides.
> 
> *Islamic Jihad's Summer of Radicalization :: The ...*
> www.investigativeproject.org/4046/islamic-jihad-summer-of...
> Summer camp conjures up bucolic images of swimming and other outdoor fun. But thousands of Palestinian children will experience something quite different, as ...​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look body you can't compare some one like phoney who is living in UK with people of Palestine who are facing terror last 70 years by the Israeli army with modern war machine followed by wii elite force support.
> Be real Roccr.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only terror is that faced by the JEWS  from the arab muslims. they are only doing what a muslim has to do by the command of their false prophet and moon god. If they had not invaded in 1949 and tried to wipe out the Jews then they would not have been killed in vast numbers. If they did not fire illegal weapons from civilian areas that have been branded war crimes they would not see thousands of human shields killed in the backwash.   They showed their intent in 2005 when Israel removed all Jews from gaza and the Palestinians increased the numbers and severity of the terrorist attacks.
Click to expand...

Why Arab Muslim will kill jews in Holy land. Arab muslim they are the one who open the door for jew in holy land 
and I will say that was wrong by arab muslim.


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> First Paris incident occur just after Israel killed 2000 innocent people and European were not happy with Israeli terror. And second incident occur after this bill passed by European parliament. While whole muslim world condemned the both incidents. Then who is behind the terror attack if all Muslim world rejecting it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what did the French have to do with the repercussions of the acts of war by hamas. The French did not drop any bombs on gaza, or fire at any hamas terrorists. If this is the case then France can drop bombs on Mecca and destroy the mosque there.  Did the French oppose this bill and declare that they would only buy from Israeli farms in the west bank, again this means that the French can now bomb gaza in return for the deaths of innocents in France. See were this is leading as very soon there would be no muslims left if the west employed Islamic measures and moralities.
> The muslims only condemned the attacks after they faces reprisals for them, which is common all over the world.  It is islam and its teachings in the koran that is to blame, does it not say terrorise those who will not bow down before me until there is only islam ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look phoney you are full of hate and you are earning by spreading hate, tell us how much you earned as propagandist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing at all as I tell the truth that is very easy to find on the internet and in public library's
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I will say you don't live in UK. And your language is english either. you know nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then youi prove you know nothing what so ever and need to get an English education
Click to expand...

dumb just add "n" it become "neither". You are a trouble maker spreading hate and earning on it. Don't you think you are terrorist too. European parliament pass a bill against israeli goods and Israeli jews are unhappy.


----------



## Rehmani

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Israel was the outcome of a successive series of events moving towards self-determination; just as the hardships of the Arab Palestinians was a consequence of very poor self-actualization.
> 
> The difference is in the objective and goals.
> 
> •  The objective of the Arab Palestinian was to "prevent" the Jewish People from achieving an independent state.  _(The goal was NOT directed at achieving independence for themselves.)_  (PREVENTION)
> 
> •  The objective of the Jewish People was to "achieving" an independent state.  _(The goal was NOT to prevent or hinder the Arab Palestinian from achieving independence.)_ (ACHIEVEMENT)​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was Israel created as part of the resolution 181 process or was it a unilateral move?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel was a creation of the Jewish People through their exercise of "collective self-determination;" nation building.  It was the national aspiration deemed necessary as a matter of cultural self preservation.
> 
> The GA Resolution 181 was the "*HOW TO BOOK*" by the UN and the recommendations of the Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP).  It was the UNSCOP that wrote the "Steps Preparatory to Independence"  _(the "HOW")_ and it was the General Assembly that adopted the recommendation as the proper steps _(international consensus)_.  BUT is was the Jewish People that initiated the action, completed the process to the extent possible _(opposed by Powerful Arab Forces)_, and declared independence.
> 
> It was the collective decision of the Arab League to use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state (external interference).  A violation of the Article 2(4) Principle of the UN Charter.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Roccar you are working hard to change the facts, please don't do that. Honesty is good policy. Let the world have peace.


----------



## Fishlore

From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.

The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.

These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani,  et al,
> 
> Oh come now!  Is that really accurate?  Is it really close to the truth?
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look phoney you are full of hate and you are earning by spreading hate, tell us how much you earned as propagandist.
> 
> 
> 
> *(EXAMPLES)*
> 
> What are these examples of?
> 
> Spreading Hate
> Bring Hate
> Preventing Peace
> Band #1:
> 
> *Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate - Columbia Daily ...*
> www.columbiatribune.com/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/arab...
> Jan 24, *2015 *· Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate - Columbia Daily Tribune: Letters To The Editor Opinion ... Open Column Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate.
> 
> *Pro-Palestinian students bring hate, intimidation to ...*
> www.foxnews.com/us/2014/06/09/pro-palestinian-students-bring-hate...
> Jun 09, *2014* · ... hateful rhetoric.Students for Justice in Palestine has ... Palestinian students bring hate, ... students in America uncomfortable on campus seems ...
> 
> *How Palestinian Hate Prevents Peace - The New York Times*
> www.nytimes.com/2013/10/16/opinion/how-palestinian-hate-prevents...
> Oct 15, *2013* · How Palestinian Hate Prevents Peace. By YUVAL STEINITZ ...Palestinian leaders must now reciprocate by immediately and fully halting their …​Band #2:
> 
> *Hamas Rejects UN Textbooks for Teaching Non-Violence*
> www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-bashes-unrwas-human-rights-corriculum
> ... [in the books] refer to [Mahatma] Gandhi, Martin ... The Palestinian narrative was also ... the universal values that underpin the work of the United Nations. ...
> 
> *6000 Boys Graduate Palestinian Islamic Jihad Terrorist ...*
> www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/6000-boys-graduate...
> Aug 19, 2015 · The Iranian-backed Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist organization held a graduation ceremony Tuesday for the 6,000 Gaza boys who this summer attended …
> 
> *Kid Jihad” Summer Training Camp: Blood, Fire & AK-47’s ...*
> patriotupdate.com/kid-jihad-summer-training-camp-blood-fire-ak-47s
> Tens of thousands of Palestinian children hurried to register for Terrorists (summer) training camp 101 and to attend programs which indoctrinate the youngsters in ...
> 
> *Camp Jihad’: U.N.-Sponsored Camps Encourage Palestinian ...*
> www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/14/camp-jihad-u-n-sponsored-camps...
> Summer at United Nations-funded camps in Gaza and the northern West Bank include playing with parachutes, jumping on trampolines, and racing down inflatable slides.
> 
> *Islamic Jihad's Summer of Radicalization :: The ...*
> www.investigativeproject.org/4046/islamic-jihad-summer-of...
> Summer camp conjures up bucolic images of swimming and other outdoor fun. But thousands of Palestinian children will experience something quite different, as ...​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look body you can't compare some one like phoney who is living in UK with people of Palestine who are facing terror last 70 years by the Israeli army with modern war machine followed by wii elite force support.
> Be real Roccr.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only terror is that faced by the JEWS  from the arab muslims. they are only doing what a muslim has to do by the command of their false prophet and moon god. If they had not invaded in 1949 and tried to wipe out the Jews then they would not have been killed in vast numbers. If they did not fire illegal weapons from civilian areas that have been branded war crimes they would not see thousands of human shields killed in the backwash.   They showed their intent in 2005 when Israel removed all Jews from gaza and the Palestinians increased the numbers and severity of the terrorist attacks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why Arab Muslim will kill jews in Holy land. Arab muslim they are the one who open the door for jew in holy land
> and I will say that was wrong by arab muslim.
Click to expand...






 And then proceeded to massacre them all over the world, and the muslims are still trying to massacre Jews today. They give with one hand and then take by force with the other.


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what did the French have to do with the repercussions of the acts of war by hamas. The French did not drop any bombs on gaza, or fire at any hamas terrorists. If this is the case then France can drop bombs on Mecca and destroy the mosque there.  Did the French oppose this bill and declare that they would only buy from Israeli farms in the west bank, again this means that the French can now bomb gaza in return for the deaths of innocents in France. See were this is leading as very soon there would be no muslims left if the west employed Islamic measures and moralities.
> The muslims only condemned the attacks after they faces reprisals for them, which is common all over the world.  It is islam and its teachings in the koran that is to blame, does it not say terrorise those who will not bow down before me until there is only islam ?
> 
> 
> 
> Look phoney you are full of hate and you are earning by spreading hate, tell us how much you earned as propagandist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing at all as I tell the truth that is very easy to find on the internet and in public library's
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I will say you don't live in UK. And your language is english either. you know nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then youi prove you know nothing what so ever and need to get an English education
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dumb just add "n" it become "neither". You are a trouble maker spreading hate and earning on it. Don't you think you are terrorist too. European parliament pass a bill against israeli goods and Israeli jews are unhappy.
Click to expand...






 Then why can I buy Israeli goods in my local EU supermarket, because the law is unworkable in a union with separate laws. No I am not a terrorist as I am not using violence to force my religion or politics on anyone else, unlike you muslims that do it daily all over the world.  How is it hate to post the truth from Islamic sources like the koran and hadiths ?


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Israel was the outcome of a successive series of events moving towards self-determination; just as the hardships of the Arab Palestinians was a consequence of very poor self-actualization.
> 
> The difference is in the objective and goals.
> 
> •  The objective of the Arab Palestinian was to "prevent" the Jewish People from achieving an independent state.  _(The goal was NOT directed at achieving independence for themselves.)_  (PREVENTION)
> 
> •  The objective of the Jewish People was to "achieving" an independent state.  _(The goal was NOT to prevent or hinder the Arab Palestinian from achieving independence.)_ (ACHIEVEMENT)​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was Israel created as part of the resolution 181 process or was it a unilateral move?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel was a creation of the Jewish People through their exercise of "collective self-determination;" nation building.  It was the national aspiration deemed necessary as a matter of cultural self preservation.
> 
> The GA Resolution 181 was the "*HOW TO BOOK*" by the UN and the recommendations of the Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP).  It was the UNSCOP that wrote the "Steps Preparatory to Independence"  _(the "HOW")_ and it was the General Assembly that adopted the recommendation as the proper steps _(international consensus)_.  BUT is was the Jewish People that initiated the action, completed the process to the extent possible _(opposed by Powerful Arab Forces)_, and declared independence.
> 
> It was the collective decision of the Arab League to use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state (external interference).  A violation of the Article 2(4) Principle of the UN Charter.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Roccar you are working hard to change the facts, please don't do that. Honesty is good policy. Let the world have peace.
Click to expand...






 He has changed no facts at all and just posts genuine reports from valid sources to prove muslims are evil, vile and untrustworthy. A thousand years of washing will never remove the blood on your hands


----------



## Phoenall

Fishlore said:


> From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.
> 
> The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.
> 
> These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.








 WRONG as the birth of Israel was first advocated in 1917 before the Nazi's came into existence, and the arab muslims started the violence back then.


----------



## Fishlore

Phoenall said:


> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.
> 
> The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.
> 
> These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WRONG as the birth of Israel was first advocated in 1917 before the Nazi's came into existence, and the arab muslims started the violence back then.
Click to expand...

No, dear, I'm not wrong. I wrote not of the date when the "birth" of Israel was first advocated but of when the umbilicus was cut in 1948.

You will be astounded to learn that the Israel envisioned at the moment of conception was an entirely secular, multi-ethnic state in which Jews, Christians, and Muslims would all be granted strictly identical rights. The Balfour Declaration and the writing of Chaim Weizmann are going to come as a bit of a shock to you, should you chance to come across them.

Arab Muslim violence has a much longer history than 1917, nor has it been primarily directed towards Jews for the very good reason that until the systematic mass migrations of European Jews, Jews in Palestine were a small native minority whose religious practices posed no problem for Muslims. Kashrut is the brother of Halal. Arab Muslim resistance has been toward non-Muslim Western intruders regardless of religious preference, and it still is. The notion of hatred of Jews because of their religion is Zionist propaganda for Western consumption.  If every Jew in Israel converted to Christian Science this afternoon, nothing would change. 

If you are interested in what Arab Muslims think about Israeli Jews you might find it illuminating to read what Arab Muslims say about the issue. The trope of the poor, victimized Jews is Zionist propaganda for Western consumption. Don't fall for it.


----------



## Phoenall

Fishlore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.
> 
> The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.
> 
> These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WRONG as the birth of Israel was first advocated in 1917 before the Nazi's came into existence, and the arab muslims started the violence back then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, dear, I'm not wrong. I wrote not of the date when the "birth" of Israel was first advocated but of when the umbilicus was cut in 1948.
> 
> You will be astounded to learn that the Israel envisioned at the moment of conception was an entirely secular, multi-ethnic state in which Jews, Christians, and Muslims would all be granted strictly identical rights. The Balfour Declaration and the writing of Chaim Weizmann are going to come as a bit of a shock to you, should you chance to come across them.
> 
> Arab Muslim violence has a much longer history than 1917, nor has it been primarily directed towards Jews for the very good reason that until the systematic mass migrations of European Jews, Jews in Palestine were a small native minority whose religious practices posed no problem for Muslims. Kashrut is the brother of Halal. Arab Muslim resistance has been toward non-Muslim Western intruders regardless of religious preference, and it still is. The notion of hatred of Jews because of their religion is Zionist propaganda for Western consumption.  If every Jew in Israel converted to Christian Science this afternoon, nothing would change.
> 
> If you are interested in what Arab Muslims think about Israeli Jews you might find it illuminating to read what Arab Muslims say about the issue. The trope of the poor, victimized Jews is Zionist propaganda for Western consumption. Don't fall for it.
Click to expand...






 Have done and they are no shock at all as they say just that. Yes arab muslim violence goes all the way back to 627 C.E. when mo'mad the false prophet invented the death cult known as islam, and proceeded to thieve, rape and steal his way across arabia. This led to the massacre of the Jewish tribe at Medina and the ethnic cleansing of 2 other Jewish tribes shortly after. The koran spells it out and is supported by the hadiths that say KILL THE JEWS


----------



## Billo_Really

American_Jihad said:


> The " palestinians" are arab outcast from surrounding arab countries...
> 
> *The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments *
> * When lies are the foundation of policies. *
> October 16, 2015
> Bruce Thornton
> 
> Many of our policy debates and conflicts both domestic and foreign call on history to validate their positions. At home, crimes from the past like slavery and legal segregation are used to justify present policies ranging from racial set asides to housing regulations long after those institutions have been dismantled. Abroad, our jihadist enemies continually evoke the Crusades, “colonialism,” and “imperialism” as justifications for their violence. Yet the “history” used in such fashion is usually one-sided, simplistic, or downright false. Nor is the reason hard to find: as we read in _1984_, “Who controls the past . . . controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.” Bad history is a powerful instrument for gaining political power.
> 
> Nowhere is the abuse of history more rampant than in the Middle East. Since World War II all the problems whose origins lie in dysfunctional tribal and religious beliefs and behaviors have been laid at the feet of “colonialism” and “imperialism.” Western leftists––besotted both by a _marxiste_ hatred of liberal democracy, and by juvenile noble-savage Third-Worldism–– have legitimized this specious pretext, which now for many has become historical fact.
> 
> ...
> 
> Everything about this narrative is false. There is no such thing as a “Palestinian” people, an idea that arose only after the Six Day War of 1967. The bulk of the people mistakenly called “Palestinians” are ethnically, religiously, and linguistically indistinguishable from Arab Muslims in Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria. Numerous comments by Arab leaders before 1967 emphasized this fact. For example, Zouhair Muhsin, a member of the Executive Council of the PLO, said, “There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity… Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.”
> 
> ...
> 
> Finally, the charge of an “illegal occupation” of the “occupied West Bank” is a canard. Those territories, comprising the heartland of the ancient Jewish nations of Judea and Samaria, are _disputed_, their final disposition awaiting a peace treaty. There are no “borders” thought to define the mythical Palestinian nation. Those lines on the map are armistice lines, created after Israel defeated the armies of Syria, Jordan, and Egypt in 1967. By all rights as the victor, Israel could have incorporated the so-called West Bank into the state of Israel, on the same eternal wages of war that led to the American Southwest being incorporated into the U.S. after the 1846-48 war with Mexico, or of Prussian Germany into Poland after World War II. Indeed, since the territory in question was for thousands of years the homeland of the Jewish people, Israel would have had a _better_ case for restoring Judea and Samaria to Israel. Instead, in the Orwellian history created by Muslims and accepted by the West, the indigenous peoples are considered the “occupiers” of their own lands, and conquerors, invaders, and colonizers considered the disenfranchised victims.
> 
> The recent suicide-murders of random Israelis by Palestinians have been analyzed in terms that perpetuate this false history. Our intellectually challenged Secretary of State, John Kerry, referred to this false history when he said at Harvard, “There’s been a massive increase in settlement over the course of the last years and there’s an increase in the violence because there’s this frustration that’s growing,” he said. “Settlements” is nothing more than a mindless mantra, like “cycle of violence” or “checkpoints” or the “sanctity of the al-Aqsa mosque,” for the pusillanimous West, while for Muslims they are the pretexts for practicing their traditional Jew-hatred and sacralized violence.
> 
> The history this reporting on the Temple Mount ignores is the great forbearance, and to be sure tactical pragmatism, of the Israelis in leaving the Temple Mount under the management of the Arabs; while a mosque created as a triumphalist boast over conquered Christians and Jews, in a city never mentioned in the Koran, is respected more by the West than its own empty cathedrals. Meanwhile the travails of Muslim immigrants are hyped and agonized over more than the crucifixions, torture, rape, and murder of Christians in the greatest mass persecution of Christians in history.
> 
> These are the wages of historical ignorance and the acceptance of a history made up by an adversary who can “thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened,” as Orwell says of the Party in _1984_. Our foreign policy has often been predicated on these lies, and the outcome has been predictable when lies are the foundation of policies––the abject failure we are witnessing in the region today.
> 
> 
> The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments


First off, I'd like to know how you get away with posting an entire article and nobody say's anything about it?  I thought there was a limit of paragraphs and you had to include your own take on things?  I don't see your take any where and it looks like the paragraphs were not limited.

With that being said, this thread is bullshit!

Israel is the only country on the planet claiming these territories are "disputed".  No other nation say's that.  These are territories Israel seized during the '67 war, which makes them occupied.

Furthermore, it doesn't matter what name you call the Palestinian's, they are the indigenous residents of this area and they have a right to self determination.


----------



## Fishlore

Phoenall said:


> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.
> 
> The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.
> 
> These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WRONG as the birth of Israel was first advocated in 1917 before the Nazi's came into existence, and the arab muslims started the violence back then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, dear, I'm not wrong. I wrote not of the date when the "birth" of Israel was first advocated but of when the umbilicus was cut in 1948.
> 
> You will be astounded to learn that the Israel envisioned at the moment of conception was an entirely secular, multi-ethnic state in which Jews, Christians, and Muslims would all be granted strictly identical rights. The Balfour Declaration and the writing of Chaim Weizmann are going to come as a bit of a shock to you, should you chance to come across them.
> 
> Arab Muslim violence has a much longer history than 1917, nor has it been primarily directed towards Jews for the very good reason that until the systematic mass migrations of European Jews, Jews in Palestine were a small native minority whose religious practices posed no problem for Muslims. Kashrut is the brother of Halal. Arab Muslim resistance has been toward non-Muslim Western intruders regardless of religious preference, and it still is. The notion of hatred of Jews because of their religion is Zionist propaganda for Western consumption.  If every Jew in Israel converted to Christian Science this afternoon, nothing would change.
> 
> If you are interested in what Arab Muslims think about Israeli Jews you might find it illuminating to read what Arab Muslims say about the issue. The trope of the poor, victimized Jews is Zionist propaganda for Western consumption. Don't fall for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have done and they are no shock at all as they say just that. Yes arab muslim violence goes all the way back to 627 C.E. when mo'mad the false prophet invented the death cult known as islam, and proceeded to thieve, rape and steal his way across arabia. This led to the massacre of the Jewish tribe at Medina and the ethnic cleansing of 2 other Jewish tribes shortly after. The koran spells it out and is supported by the hadiths that say KILL THE JEWS
Click to expand...

Well, I understand your point of view, although I see the history somewhat differently. 
 The depiction of Mohammad as a false prophet, a thief and a rapist strikes me as a bit extreme and not something worth arguing over. 

The hateful hysteria that is being ginned up in the country in order to prepare the American pea pull for a continuation of the endless war in Arabia make me suspicious. 

However our Arabian Nights adventure turns out -- and I am pretty sure it will turn out rather badly -- the alleged moral shortcomings of the founder of Islam aren't going to play any role beyond stirring up enthusiasm for getting more American kids killed over there.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> The " palestinians" are arab outcast from surrounding arab countries...
> 
> *The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments *
> * When lies are the foundation of policies. *
> October 16, 2015
> Bruce Thornton
> 
> Many of our policy debates and conflicts both domestic and foreign call on history to validate their positions. At home, crimes from the past like slavery and legal segregation are used to justify present policies ranging from racial set asides to housing regulations long after those institutions have been dismantled. Abroad, our jihadist enemies continually evoke the Crusades, “colonialism,” and “imperialism” as justifications for their violence. Yet the “history” used in such fashion is usually one-sided, simplistic, or downright false. Nor is the reason hard to find: as we read in _1984_, “Who controls the past . . . controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.” Bad history is a powerful instrument for gaining political power.
> 
> Nowhere is the abuse of history more rampant than in the Middle East. Since World War II all the problems whose origins lie in dysfunctional tribal and religious beliefs and behaviors have been laid at the feet of “colonialism” and “imperialism.” Western leftists––besotted both by a _marxiste_ hatred of liberal democracy, and by juvenile noble-savage Third-Worldism–– have legitimized this specious pretext, which now for many has become historical fact.
> 
> ...
> 
> Everything about this narrative is false. There is no such thing as a “Palestinian” people, an idea that arose only after the Six Day War of 1967. The bulk of the people mistakenly called “Palestinians” are ethnically, religiously, and linguistically indistinguishable from Arab Muslims in Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria. Numerous comments by Arab leaders before 1967 emphasized this fact. For example, Zouhair Muhsin, a member of the Executive Council of the PLO, said, “There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity… Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.”
> 
> ...
> 
> Finally, the charge of an “illegal occupation” of the “occupied West Bank” is a canard. Those territories, comprising the heartland of the ancient Jewish nations of Judea and Samaria, are _disputed_, their final disposition awaiting a peace treaty. There are no “borders” thought to define the mythical Palestinian nation. Those lines on the map are armistice lines, created after Israel defeated the armies of Syria, Jordan, and Egypt in 1967. By all rights as the victor, Israel could have incorporated the so-called West Bank into the state of Israel, on the same eternal wages of war that led to the American Southwest being incorporated into the U.S. after the 1846-48 war with Mexico, or of Prussian Germany into Poland after World War II. Indeed, since the territory in question was for thousands of years the homeland of the Jewish people, Israel would have had a _better_ case for restoring Judea and Samaria to Israel. Instead, in the Orwellian history created by Muslims and accepted by the West, the indigenous peoples are considered the “occupiers” of their own lands, and conquerors, invaders, and colonizers considered the disenfranchised victims.
> 
> The recent suicide-murders of random Israelis by Palestinians have been analyzed in terms that perpetuate this false history. Our intellectually challenged Secretary of State, John Kerry, referred to this false history when he said at Harvard, “There’s been a massive increase in settlement over the course of the last years and there’s an increase in the violence because there’s this frustration that’s growing,” he said. “Settlements” is nothing more than a mindless mantra, like “cycle of violence” or “checkpoints” or the “sanctity of the al-Aqsa mosque,” for the pusillanimous West, while for Muslims they are the pretexts for practicing their traditional Jew-hatred and sacralized violence.
> 
> The history this reporting on the Temple Mount ignores is the great forbearance, and to be sure tactical pragmatism, of the Israelis in leaving the Temple Mount under the management of the Arabs; while a mosque created as a triumphalist boast over conquered Christians and Jews, in a city never mentioned in the Koran, is respected more by the West than its own empty cathedrals. Meanwhile the travails of Muslim immigrants are hyped and agonized over more than the crucifixions, torture, rape, and murder of Christians in the greatest mass persecution of Christians in history.
> 
> These are the wages of historical ignorance and the acceptance of a history made up by an adversary who can “thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened,” as Orwell says of the Party in _1984_. Our foreign policy has often been predicated on these lies, and the outcome has been predictable when lies are the foundation of policies––the abject failure we are witnessing in the region today.
> 
> 
> The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments
> 
> 
> 
> First off, I'd like to know how you get away with posting an entire article and nobody say's anything about it?  I thought there was a limit of paragraphs and you had to include your own take on things?  I don't see your take any where and it looks like the paragraphs were not limited.
> 
> With that being said, this thread is bullshit!
> 
> Israel is the only country on the planet claiming these territories are "disputed".  No other nation say's that.  These are territories Israel seized during the '67 war, which makes them occupied.
> 
> Furthermore, it doesn't matter what name you call the Palestinian's, they are the indigenous residents of this area and they have a right to self determination.
Click to expand...







 They were seized in 1948/1949 and never granted to Egypt or Jordan, so in 1967 when Israel beat back the arab armies the land became disputed as the arab muslims never owned it.
 They have exercised self determination at least 100 times since 1948, and each time have failed to show they can stand on their own


----------



## Phoenall

Fishlore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.
> 
> The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.
> 
> These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WRONG as the birth of Israel was first advocated in 1917 before the Nazi's came into existence, and the arab muslims started the violence back then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, dear, I'm not wrong. I wrote not of the date when the "birth" of Israel was first advocated but of when the umbilicus was cut in 1948.
> 
> You will be astounded to learn that the Israel envisioned at the moment of conception was an entirely secular, multi-ethnic state in which Jews, Christians, and Muslims would all be granted strictly identical rights. The Balfour Declaration and the writing of Chaim Weizmann are going to come as a bit of a shock to you, should you chance to come across them.
> 
> Arab Muslim violence has a much longer history than 1917, nor has it been primarily directed towards Jews for the very good reason that until the systematic mass migrations of European Jews, Jews in Palestine were a small native minority whose religious practices posed no problem for Muslims. Kashrut is the brother of Halal. Arab Muslim resistance has been toward non-Muslim Western intruders regardless of religious preference, and it still is. The notion of hatred of Jews because of their religion is Zionist propaganda for Western consumption.  If every Jew in Israel converted to Christian Science this afternoon, nothing would change.
> 
> If you are interested in what Arab Muslims think about Israeli Jews you might find it illuminating to read what Arab Muslims say about the issue. The trope of the poor, victimized Jews is Zionist propaganda for Western consumption. Don't fall for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have done and they are no shock at all as they say just that. Yes arab muslim violence goes all the way back to 627 C.E. when mo'mad the false prophet invented the death cult known as islam, and proceeded to thieve, rape and steal his way across arabia. This led to the massacre of the Jewish tribe at Medina and the ethnic cleansing of 2 other Jewish tribes shortly after. The koran spells it out and is supported by the hadiths that say KILL THE JEWS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, I understand your point of view, although I see the history somewhat differently.
> The depiction of Mohammad as a false prophet, a thief and a rapist strikes me as a bit extreme and not something worth arguing over.
> 
> The hateful hysteria that is being ginned up in the country in order to prepare the American pea pull for a continuation of the endless war in Arabia make me suspicious.
> 
> However our Arabian Nights adventure turns out -- and I am pretty sure it will turn out rather badly -- the alleged moral shortcomings of the founder of Islam aren't going to play any role beyond stirring up enthusiasm for getting more American kids killed over there.
Click to expand...






 It is not extreme at all as it is the truth, the evidence is written down in the koran and hadiths for all to see. Want the real bombshell he was delusional and had a verified mental illness that caused him to see and hear people that did not exist.
 The hatefull hysteria set in motion against the Jews by the Nazis and muslims has me worried, along with the mass invasion of Europe by the muslims.
 They either die over there or in the good old US of A it makes no difference to Obama and the rest of islam, it is inevitable that islam will rise up and try and fulfill the commands in the koran.


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Israel was the outcome of a successive series of events moving towards self-determination; just as the hardships of the Arab Palestinians was a consequence of very poor self-actualization.
> 
> The difference is in the objective and goals.
> 
> •  The objective of the Arab Palestinian was to "prevent" the Jewish People from achieving an independent state.  _(The goal was NOT directed at achieving independence for themselves.)_  (PREVENTION)
> 
> •  The objective of the Jewish People was to "achieving" an independent state.  _(The goal was NOT to prevent or hinder the Arab Palestinian from achieving independence.)_ (ACHIEVEMENT)​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was Israel created as part of the resolution 181 process or was it a unilateral move?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel was a creation of the Jewish People through their exercise of "collective self-determination;" nation building.  It was the national aspiration deemed necessary as a matter of cultural self preservation.
> 
> The GA Resolution 181 was the "*HOW TO BOOK*" by the UN and the recommendations of the Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP).  It was the UNSCOP that wrote the "Steps Preparatory to Independence"  _(the "HOW")_ and it was the General Assembly that adopted the recommendation as the proper steps _(international consensus)_.  BUT is was the Jewish People that initiated the action, completed the process to the extent possible _(opposed by Powerful Arab Forces)_, and declared independence.
> 
> It was the collective decision of the Arab League to use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state (external interference).  A violation of the Article 2(4) Principle of the UN Charter.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Roccar you are working hard to change the facts, please don't do that. Honesty is good policy. Let the world have peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He has changed no facts at all and just posts genuine reports from valid sources to prove muslims are evil, vile and untrustworthy. A thousand years of washing will never remove the blood on your hands
Click to expand...

I don't know about roccor, but you are not English neither english is first tongue. What roccor talking about is that elite forces invade holy land from Turkey and gave to Jews and invader makes all laws too. And he is trying to force invader story over 1000 years of holy land history and he wants accept these new facts force by invaders.


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look phoney you are full of hate and you are earning by spreading hate, tell us how much you earned as propagandist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing at all as I tell the truth that is very easy to find on the internet and in public library's
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I will say you don't live in UK. And your language is english either. you know nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then youi prove you know nothing what so ever and need to get an English education
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dumb just add "n" it become "neither". You are a trouble maker spreading hate and earning on it. Don't you think you are terrorist too. European parliament pass a bill against israeli goods and Israeli jews are unhappy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why can I buy Israeli goods in my local EU supermarket, because the law is unworkable in a union with separate laws. No I am not a terrorist as I am not using violence to force my religion or politics on anyone else, unlike you muslims that do it daily all over the world.  How is it hate to post the truth from Islamic sources like the koran and hadiths ?
Click to expand...

Then why israel is not happy. You are not but yours little tongue is moron. And they might be hypocrite or 100 million missing jews.


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani,  et al,
> 
> Oh come now!  Is that really accurate?  Is it really close to the truth?
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look phoney you are full of hate and you are earning by spreading hate, tell us how much you earned as propagandist.
> 
> 
> 
> *(EXAMPLES)*
> 
> What are these examples of?
> 
> Spreading Hate
> Bring Hate
> Preventing Peace
> Band #1:
> 
> *Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate - Columbia Daily ...*
> www.columbiatribune.com/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/arab...
> Jan 24, *2015 *· Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate - Columbia Daily Tribune: Letters To The Editor Opinion ... Open Column Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate.
> 
> *Pro-Palestinian students bring hate, intimidation to ...*
> www.foxnews.com/us/2014/06/09/pro-palestinian-students-bring-hate...
> Jun 09, *2014* · ... hateful rhetoric.Students for Justice in Palestine has ... Palestinian students bring hate, ... students in America uncomfortable on campus seems ...
> 
> *How Palestinian Hate Prevents Peace - The New York Times*
> www.nytimes.com/2013/10/16/opinion/how-palestinian-hate-prevents...
> Oct 15, *2013* · How Palestinian Hate Prevents Peace. By YUVAL STEINITZ ...Palestinian leaders must now reciprocate by immediately and fully halting their …​Band #2:
> 
> *Hamas Rejects UN Textbooks for Teaching Non-Violence*
> www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-bashes-unrwas-human-rights-corriculum
> ... [in the books] refer to [Mahatma] Gandhi, Martin ... The Palestinian narrative was also ... the universal values that underpin the work of the United Nations. ...
> 
> *6000 Boys Graduate Palestinian Islamic Jihad Terrorist ...*
> www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/6000-boys-graduate...
> Aug 19, 2015 · The Iranian-backed Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist organization held a graduation ceremony Tuesday for the 6,000 Gaza boys who this summer attended …
> 
> *Kid Jihad” Summer Training Camp: Blood, Fire & AK-47’s ...*
> patriotupdate.com/kid-jihad-summer-training-camp-blood-fire-ak-47s
> Tens of thousands of Palestinian children hurried to register for Terrorists (summer) training camp 101 and to attend programs which indoctrinate the youngsters in ...
> 
> *Camp Jihad’: U.N.-Sponsored Camps Encourage Palestinian ...*
> www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/14/camp-jihad-u-n-sponsored-camps...
> Summer at United Nations-funded camps in Gaza and the northern West Bank include playing with parachutes, jumping on trampolines, and racing down inflatable slides.
> 
> *Islamic Jihad's Summer of Radicalization :: The ...*
> www.investigativeproject.org/4046/islamic-jihad-summer-of...
> Summer camp conjures up bucolic images of swimming and other outdoor fun. But thousands of Palestinian children will experience something quite different, as ...​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look body you can't compare some one like phoney who is living in UK with people of Palestine who are facing terror last 70 years by the Israeli army with modern war machine followed by wii elite force support.
> Be real Roccr.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only terror is that faced by the JEWS  from the arab muslims. they are only doing what a muslim has to do by the command of their false prophet and moon god. If they had not invaded in 1949 and tried to wipe out the Jews then they would not have been killed in vast numbers. If they did not fire illegal weapons from civilian areas that have been branded war crimes they would not see thousands of human shields killed in the backwash.   They showed their intent in 2005 when Israel removed all Jews from gaza and the Palestinians increased the numbers and severity of the terrorist attacks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why Arab Muslim will kill jews in Holy land. Arab muslim they are the one who open the door for jew in holy land
> and I will say that was wrong by arab muslim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And then proceeded to massacre them all over the world, and the muslims are still trying to massacre Jews today. They give with one hand and then take by force with the other.
Click to expand...

This is your quality you are talking about. Fool whole world is watching that Jews are killing innocent people in israel, dumb can't you see.


----------



## Rehmani

Fishlore said:


> From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.
> 
> The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.
> 
> These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.


As you said that they forced little Israel in the center of 400 million Arab muslim, and jews should understand it and learned from history.


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Israel was the outcome of a successive series of events moving towards self-determination; just as the hardships of the Arab Palestinians was a consequence of very poor self-actualization.
> 
> The difference is in the objective and goals.
> 
> •  The objective of the Arab Palestinian was to "prevent" the Jewish People from achieving an independent state.  _(The goal was NOT directed at achieving independence for themselves.)_  (PREVENTION)
> 
> •  The objective of the Jewish People was to "achieving" an independent state.  _(The goal was NOT to prevent or hinder the Arab Palestinian from achieving independence.)_ (ACHIEVEMENT)​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was Israel created as part of the resolution 181 process or was it a unilateral move?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel was a creation of the Jewish People through their exercise of "collective self-determination;" nation building.  It was the national aspiration deemed necessary as a matter of cultural self preservation.
> 
> The GA Resolution 181 was the "*HOW TO BOOK*" by the UN and the recommendations of the Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP).  It was the UNSCOP that wrote the "Steps Preparatory to Independence"  _(the "HOW")_ and it was the General Assembly that adopted the recommendation as the proper steps _(international consensus)_.  BUT is was the Jewish People that initiated the action, completed the process to the extent possible _(opposed by Powerful Arab Forces)_, and declared independence.
> 
> It was the collective decision of the Arab League to use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state (external interference).  A violation of the Article 2(4) Principle of the UN Charter.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Roccar you are working hard to change the facts, please don't do that. Honesty is good policy. Let the world have peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He has changed no facts at all and just posts genuine reports from valid sources to prove muslims are evil, vile and untrustworthy. A thousand years of washing will never remove the blood on your hands
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know about roccor, but you are not English neither english is first tongue. What roccor talking about is that elite forces invade holy land from Turkey and gave to Jews and invader makes all laws too. And he is trying to force invader story over 1000 years of holy land history and he wants accept these new facts force by invaders.
Click to expand...







 I am as much English as you are Islamic, and I can trace my descendants back to the Norman Conquest. You would be lucky if you could trace your grandfather. You are the last person that should be passing any comments on another persons English, as you abuse and bastardise English as if you cant be bothered to learn it.

 The muslims from where ever invade everywhere they can to take over the world, then they cry about being invaded themselves and removed from the lands they have stolen. They were invented as land thieves, mass murderers and rapists by the false prophet who made no prophetic announcements at all. They emulate his life with child rape, theft and murder, and complain they are being treated unfairly when they are punished for their crimes.

 Now to get back to the topic from the conquest by the Roman Empire till 1960 the only palestinians were the Jews, and to call a muslim a Palestinian was to insult him, his family and his religion.


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing at all as I tell the truth that is very easy to find on the internet and in public library's
> 
> 
> 
> I will say you don't live in UK. And your language is english either. you know nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then youi prove you know nothing what so ever and need to get an English education
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dumb just add "n" it become "neither". You are a trouble maker spreading hate and earning on it. Don't you think you are terrorist too. European parliament pass a bill against israeli goods and Israeli jews are unhappy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why can I buy Israeli goods in my local EU supermarket, because the law is unworkable in a union with separate laws. No I am not a terrorist as I am not using violence to force my religion or politics on anyone else, unlike you muslims that do it daily all over the world.  How is it hate to post the truth from Islamic sources like the koran and hadiths ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why israel is not happy. You are not but yours little tongue is moron. And they might be hypocrite or 100 million missing jews.
Click to expand...






 The missing Jews were mass murdered by muslims, it is all in the Islamic history texts starting with the hadiths. They were terrorists from the very start as shown by the commands in the koran to "strike terror in the hearts of the unbelievers". The only morons are those that deny the words written down in the koran and hadiths that tell the muslims to KILL THE JEWS. And they have done so for the last 1400 years, which is why so few are alive today.


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani,  et al,
> 
> Oh come now!  Is that really accurate?  Is it really close to the truth?
> 
> *(EXAMPLES)*
> 
> What are these examples of?
> 
> Spreading Hate
> Bring Hate
> Preventing Peace
> Band #1:
> 
> *Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate - Columbia Daily ...*
> www.columbiatribune.com/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/arab...
> Jan 24, *2015 *· Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate - Columbia Daily Tribune: Letters To The Editor Opinion ... Open Column Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate.
> 
> *Pro-Palestinian students bring hate, intimidation to ...*
> www.foxnews.com/us/2014/06/09/pro-palestinian-students-bring-hate...
> Jun 09, *2014* · ... hateful rhetoric.Students for Justice in Palestine has ... Palestinian students bring hate, ... students in America uncomfortable on campus seems ...
> 
> *How Palestinian Hate Prevents Peace - The New York Times*
> www.nytimes.com/2013/10/16/opinion/how-palestinian-hate-prevents...
> Oct 15, *2013* · How Palestinian Hate Prevents Peace. By YUVAL STEINITZ ...Palestinian leaders must now reciprocate by immediately and fully halting their …​Band #2:
> 
> *Hamas Rejects UN Textbooks for Teaching Non-Violence*
> www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-bashes-unrwas-human-rights-corriculum
> ... [in the books] refer to [Mahatma] Gandhi, Martin ... The Palestinian narrative was also ... the universal values that underpin the work of the United Nations. ...
> 
> *6000 Boys Graduate Palestinian Islamic Jihad Terrorist ...*
> www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/6000-boys-graduate...
> Aug 19, 2015 · The Iranian-backed Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist organization held a graduation ceremony Tuesday for the 6,000 Gaza boys who this summer attended …
> 
> *Kid Jihad” Summer Training Camp: Blood, Fire & AK-47’s ...*
> patriotupdate.com/kid-jihad-summer-training-camp-blood-fire-ak-47s
> Tens of thousands of Palestinian children hurried to register for Terrorists (summer) training camp 101 and to attend programs which indoctrinate the youngsters in ...
> 
> *Camp Jihad’: U.N.-Sponsored Camps Encourage Palestinian ...*
> www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/14/camp-jihad-u-n-sponsored-camps...
> Summer at United Nations-funded camps in Gaza and the northern West Bank include playing with parachutes, jumping on trampolines, and racing down inflatable slides.
> 
> *Islamic Jihad's Summer of Radicalization :: The ...*
> www.investigativeproject.org/4046/islamic-jihad-summer-of...
> Summer camp conjures up bucolic images of swimming and other outdoor fun. But thousands of Palestinian children will experience something quite different, as ...​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Look body you can't compare some one like phoney who is living in UK with people of Palestine who are facing terror last 70 years by the Israeli army with modern war machine followed by wii elite force support.
> Be real Roccr.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only terror is that faced by the JEWS  from the arab muslims. they are only doing what a muslim has to do by the command of their false prophet and moon god. If they had not invaded in 1949 and tried to wipe out the Jews then they would not have been killed in vast numbers. If they did not fire illegal weapons from civilian areas that have been branded war crimes they would not see thousands of human shields killed in the backwash.   They showed their intent in 2005 when Israel removed all Jews from gaza and the Palestinians increased the numbers and severity of the terrorist attacks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why Arab Muslim will kill jews in Holy land. Arab muslim they are the one who open the door for jew in holy land
> and I will say that was wrong by arab muslim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And then proceeded to massacre them all over the world, and the muslims are still trying to massacre Jews today. They give with one hand and then take by force with the other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is your quality you are talking about. Fool whole world is watching that Jews are killing innocent people in israel, dumb can't you see.
Click to expand...






No I cant, and nor can 70% of the worlds population, what they do see is terrorists and violent scum are being killed in war. They see the illegal rockets fired at Israeli children and the muslims rejoicing every time one hits Israel. They see the mass murders of innocents by muslims all over the world, and the muslims having a party every time they kill another innocent. They see the Jordanian muslims firing live ammunition into prison camps in retribution for the Palestinians terrorist attacks and killing 20,000 to 50,000 Palestinians. That is more Palestinian murdered in one month by other muslims that Israel has killed in 67 years of warfare.. All proven to be true because it happened in living memory


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.
> 
> The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.
> 
> These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.
> 
> 
> 
> As you said that they forced little Israel in the center of 400 million Arab muslim, and jews should understand it and learned from history.
Click to expand...






 They have and that is why the Palestinians are kept under scrutiny and not allowed weapons. That is why Israel has armed itself to the max and will not hesitate to fire back at hamas and fatah


----------



## Fishlore

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.
> 
> The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.
> 
> These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.
> 
> 
> 
> As you said that they forced little Israel in the center of 400 million Arab muslim, and jews should understand it and learned from history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have and that is why the Palestinians are kept under scrutiny and not allowed weapons. That is why Israel has armed itself to the max and will not hesitate to fire back at hamas and fatah
Click to expand...

The flaw in Likud's strategy is that the opposition is not a few million stateless Palestinians herded into ghettoes in Gaza and the West Bank, it is the entire Arab people supported by world opinion and a majority of the member nations in the  UN.

Corollary to this fact, the Palestinian issue is not going to be resolved by gunfire but by political and economic pressure which neither Israel nor Palestine is able to resist. This would have happened years ago were it not for the USA blocking international effort in hopes of dictating terms favorable to the Jews in our self-appointed role as "honest broker." Nobody is buying that stuff any more, the rest is just a matter of time.


----------



## Fishlore

Rehmani said:


> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.
> 
> The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.
> 
> These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.
> 
> 
> 
> As you said that they forced little Israel in the center of 400 million Arab muslim, and jews should understand it and learned from history.
Click to expand...

Yet I remain optimistic about the longer term. Israel has a mutually beneficial role to play in the United States of Arabia, a role akin to that once enjoyed by Lebanon. The Israeli economy is profitably compatible with the surrounding Arab economies. Arab society has a long history of working out peaceful accommodations that are good for business. But a Western sort of Fort Apache perched on the al Aqsa mosque is essentially unsustainable.


----------



## Phoenall

Fishlore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.
> 
> The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.
> 
> These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.
> 
> 
> 
> As you said that they forced little Israel in the center of 400 million Arab muslim, and jews should understand it and learned from history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have and that is why the Palestinians are kept under scrutiny and not allowed weapons. That is why Israel has armed itself to the max and will not hesitate to fire back at hamas and fatah
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The flaw in Likud's strategy is that the opposition is not a few million stateless Palestinians herded into ghettoes in Gaza and the West Bank, it is the entire Arab people supported by world opinion and a majority of the member nations in the  UN.
> 
> Corollary to this fact, the Palestinian issue is not going to be resolved by gunfire but by political and economic pressure which neither Israel nor Palestine is able to resist. This would have happened years ago were it not for the USA blocking international effort in hopes of dictating terms favorable to the Jews in our self-appointed role as "honest broker." Nobody is buying that stuff any more, the rest is just a matter of time.
Click to expand...






 If that was the case then the entire arab people would have invaded Israel with the majority of the UN member states at their side. They would be threatening Israel with nuclear weapons and bombing the Jews into extinction. So why isn't this happening, why aren't the arabs camped on Israels borders with their armies shooting anything that moves while the US, UK, France and Russia are doing high level flights and dropping bombs by the thousand on Israel.
 Could it be that you are LYING and don't really have a clue as to what is happening in the M.E.

 No nation or group of nations can impose their views on the Jews or the Palestinians without being in breach of the UN charter, IHL or the Geneva conventions. So your propaganda is a non starter and is straight from the Palestinian handbook of BLOOD LIBELS and LIES. The UN should be made to enforce existing international laws that gave the whole of Jewish Palestine to the Jews for their national home. And then evict the arab muslims that do not want to live in peace to a country of their choosing as part of that international law. As you say it is just a matter of time before the UN collapses and the Palestinians face destitution and starvation because the rest of the arab world is refusing to lift a finger to help them


----------



## Phoenall

Fishlore said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.
> 
> The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.
> 
> These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.
> 
> 
> 
> As you said that they forced little Israel in the center of 400 million Arab muslim, and jews should understand it and learned from history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yet I remain optimistic about the longer term. Israel has a mutually beneficial role to play in the United States of Arabia, a role akin to that once enjoyed by Lebanon. The Israeli economy is profitably compatible with the surrounding Arab economies. Arab society has a long history of working out peaceful accommodations that are good for business. But a Western sort of Fort Apache perched on the al Aqsa mosque is essentially unsustainable.
Click to expand...






 And we all saw what happened to Lebanon when the arab muslims decided that is was going to be an Islamic state, they destroyed its capital and mass murdered thousands of innocents. Now the indigenous people are held as slaves by the extremist muslims who are setting their sights on Israel next.


----------



## Fishlore

Phoenall said:


> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.
> 
> The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.
> 
> These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.
> 
> 
> 
> As you said that they forced little Israel in the center of 400 million Arab muslim, and jews should understand it and learned from history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yet I remain optimistic about the longer term. Israel has a mutually beneficial role to play in the United States of Arabia, a role akin to that once enjoyed by Lebanon. The Israeli economy is profitably compatible with the surrounding Arab economies. Arab society has a long history of working out peaceful accommodations that are good for business. But a Western sort of Fort Apache perched on the al Aqsa mosque is essentially unsustainable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And we all saw what happened to Lebanon when the arab muslims decided that is was going to be an Islamic state, they destroyed its capital and mass murdered thousands of innocents. Now the indigenous people are held as slaves by the extremist muslims who are setting their sights on Israel next.
Click to expand...

Lebanon was part of Syria, much as Kuwait was part of Iraq. These colonial carve-ups tend to be inherently unstable. What destroyed Lebanon was Israel, a foreign body stabbed into the heart of Arabia which has produced the sort of infectious reaction such wounds always do. 

The whole of the Levant is one of the most diverse and heterogenous parts of the Muslim world. Over the centuries, the Muslim record of minority toleration has been at least as good as that of Christendom. The disruptive invasion of Britain and France destroyed a social equilibrium that had taken generations to establish. 

A similar phenomenon has taken pace across sub-Sahara Africa (and long before the rise of Boko Haram). Western imperialism has run like a roto-tiller across lands whose cultural, economic and religious patterns evolved over centuries. Strife among the shattered remnants of once-independent societies is the responsibility of the roto-tiller. Of course, Westerners are incapable of admitting that they have ever done anything wrong so elaborate schemes to blame the victims are the order of the day. We are the only ones who believe our lies.


----------



## RoccoR

Fishlore,  et al,

Yes, most countries don't react well to intimidation.  Since before Israeli Independence, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have issued threat after threat to bully, scare, coerce and intimidate people, cultures, nations and governments to affect the conduct of ruling or influential powers in the furtherance of political or social objectives.  It is why we call them "unconventional" threats.

“We cannot forget that what’s happening in Gaza today (2014) will feed and fuel the desire for many more to join radical groups,”
 --- _Former FBI Director Robert Mueller --- _​
What we think of the Palestinians is partially reflected in the thought that:  "In August 2014, the US Department of State designated the Mujahidin Shura Council in the Environs of Jerusalem, a Gaza-based umbrella group of jihadist organizations in the area, as a foreign terrorist organization, citing its claims of rocket attacks on southern Israel and the group’s announcement of allegiance to the Islamic State.   While some may automatically automatically associate HAMAS (Islamic Resistance Movement) with Gaza, in fact, there are a number of nefarious Jihadist, Terrorist, Insurgents and hostile Asymmetric threats. 

I'm quite sure that no regional country wants to release these threats without constraints or replace a country like Israel with a near failed state that has no reasonable expectation of success.  Remember, Palestinians are parasitic.   The will drain all the funds and potentials of a country and then turn towards other regional nation to sink their teeth into. 

*Times of Israel -- 2 DEC 15 -- BY REBECCA SHIMONI STOIL  August 19, 2014*
WASHINGTON — The US State Department designated an al-Qaeda affiliated group active in the Gaza Strip as a foreign terrorist organization Tuesday morning.​



Fishlore said:


> The flaw in Likud's strategy is that the opposition is not a few million stateless Palestinians herded into ghettoes in Gaza and the West Bank, it is the entire Arab people supported by world opinion and a majority of the member nations in the  UN.


*(COMMENT)*

If the Palestinians are "herded into ghettoes in Gaza and the West Bank," then that is a Arab Palestinian leadership problem that has cascaded into a deliberate program NOT to improve the quality of life of ALL people in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  

"At its core, leadership is about people. Fundamental to this is that leaders take care of their people."
"The leader who sends the message that people don’t really matter will generally not be as successful in the long-run as the leader who is genuinely serious about taking care of his people." 
-------  No Yelling - The 9 secrets of Marine Corps Leadership You Must Know to Win in Business - Wally Adamchik​
The very lack of knowledge, skills and abilities manifested by the Palestinians represents a great incompetence --- that can manage the energies properly, generally produce a positive impact on the economy, standard of living, and the quality of life.  That is not the fault of the Israelis.  



Fishlore said:


> Corollary to this fact, the Palestinian issue is not going to be resolved by gunfire but by political and economic pressure which neither Israel nor Palestine is able to resist. This would have happened years ago were it not for the USA blocking international effort in hopes of dictating terms favorable to the Jews in our self-appointed role as "honest broker." Nobody is buying that stuff any more, the rest is just a matter of time.


*(COMMENT)*

On most any political question, whether it be economically, militarily, commercially, or diplomatically, will have more than one vantage points and many points to consider before an intelligent decision on the best course of action is arrived at.     

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Fishlore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.
> 
> The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.
> 
> These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.
> 
> 
> 
> As you said that they forced little Israel in the center of 400 million Arab muslim, and jews should understand it and learned from history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yet I remain optimistic about the longer term. Israel has a mutually beneficial role to play in the United States of Arabia, a role akin to that once enjoyed by Lebanon. The Israeli economy is profitably compatible with the surrounding Arab economies. Arab society has a long history of working out peaceful accommodations that are good for business. But a Western sort of Fort Apache perched on the al Aqsa mosque is essentially unsustainable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And we all saw what happened to Lebanon when the arab muslims decided that is was going to be an Islamic state, they destroyed its capital and mass murdered thousands of innocents. Now the indigenous people are held as slaves by the extremist muslims who are setting their sights on Israel next.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lebanon was part of Syria, much as Kuwait was part of Iraq. These colonial carve-ups tend to be inherently unstable. What destroyed Lebanon was Israel, a foreign body stabbed into the heart of Arabia which has produced the sort of infectious reaction such wounds always do.
> 
> The whole of the Levant is one of the most diverse and heterogenous parts of the Muslim world. Over the centuries, the Muslim record of minority toleration has been at least as good as that of Christendom. The disruptive invasion of Britain and France destroyed a social equilibrium that had taken generations to establish.
> 
> A similar phenomenon has taken pace across sub-Sahara Africa (and long before the rise of Boko Haram). Western imperialism has run like a roto-tiller across lands whose cultural, economic and religious patterns evolved over centuries. Strife among the shattered remnants of once-independent societies is the responsibility of the roto-tiller. Of course, Westerners are incapable of admitting that they have ever done anything wrong so elaborate schemes to blame the victims are the order of the day. We are the only ones who believe our lies.
Click to expand...


----------



## montelatici

RoccoR said:


> Fishlore,  et al,
> 
> Yes, most countries don't react well to intimidation.  Since before Israeli Independence, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have issued threat after threat to bully, scare, coerce and intimidate people, cultures, nations and governments to affect the conduct of ruling or influential powers in the furtherance of political or social objectives.  It is why we call them "unconventional" threats.
> 
> “We cannot forget that what’s happening in Gaza today (2014) will feed and fuel the desire for many more to join radical groups,”
> --- _Former FBI Director Robert Mueller --- _​
> What we think of the Palestinians is partially reflected in the thought that:  "In August 2014, the US Department of State designated the Mujahidin Shura Council in the Environs of Jerusalem, a Gaza-based umbrella group of jihadist organizations in the area, as a foreign terrorist organization, citing its claims of rocket attacks on southern Israel and the group’s announcement of allegiance to the Islamic State.   While some may automatically automatically associate HAMAS (Islamic Resistance Movement) with Gaza, in fact, there are a number of nefarious Jihadist, Terrorist, Insurgents and hostile Asymmetric threats.
> 
> I'm quite sure that no regional country wants to release these threats without constraints or replace a country like Israel with a near failed state that has no reasonable expectation of success.  Remember, Palestinians are parasitic.   The will drain all the funds and potentials of a country and then turn towards other regional nation to sink their teeth into.
> 
> *Times of Israel -- 2 DEC 15 -- BY REBECCA SHIMONI STOIL  August 19, 2014*
> WASHINGTON — The US State Department designated an al-Qaeda affiliated group active in the Gaza Strip as a foreign terrorist organization Tuesday morning.​
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The flaw in Likud's strategy is that the opposition is not a few million stateless Palestinians herded into ghettoes in Gaza and the West Bank, it is the entire Arab people supported by world opinion and a majority of the member nations in the  UN.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If the Palestinians are "herded into ghettoes in Gaza and the West Bank," then that is a Arab Palestinian leadership problem that has cascaded into a deliberate program NOT to improve the quality of life of ALL people in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
> 
> "At its core, leadership is about people. Fundamental to this is that leaders take care of their people."
> "The leader who sends the message that people don’t really matter will generally not be as successful in the long-run as the leader who is genuinely serious about taking care of his people."
> -------  No Yelling - The 9 secrets of Marine Corps Leadership You Must Know to Win in Business - Wally Adamchik​
> The very lack of knowledge, skills and abilities manifested by the Palestinians represents a great incompetence --- that can manage the energies properly, generally produce a positive impact on the economy, standard of living, and the quality of life.  That is not the fault of the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Corollary to this fact, the Palestinian issue is not going to be resolved by gunfire but by political and economic pressure which neither Israel nor Palestine is able to resist. This would have happened years ago were it not for the USA blocking international effort in hopes of dictating terms favorable to the Jews in our self-appointed role as "honest broker." Nobody is buying that stuff any more, the rest is just a matter of time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> On most any political question, whether it be economically, militarily, commercially, or diplomatically, will have more than one vantage points and many points to consider before an intelligent decision on the best course of action is arrived at.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


As most native people, the Palestinians were not that accepting of being colonized by Europeans after Ottoman rule. It is the ancestors of the Vicious Israeli Jewish Occupiers (VIJO) that issued threats of colonizing the area as early as 1899, well before the Balfour Declaration, as well as after.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Fishlore,  et al,
> 
> Yes, most countries don't react well to intimidation.  Since before Israeli Independence, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have issued threat after threat to bully, scare, coerce and intimidate people, cultures, nations and governments to affect the conduct of ruling or influential powers in the furtherance of political or social objectives.  It is why we call them "unconventional" threats.
> 
> “We cannot forget that what’s happening in Gaza today (2014) will feed and fuel the desire for many more to join radical groups,”
> --- _Former FBI Director Robert Mueller --- _​
> What we think of the Palestinians is partially reflected in the thought that:  "In August 2014, the US Department of State designated the Mujahidin Shura Council in the Environs of Jerusalem, a Gaza-based umbrella group of jihadist organizations in the area, as a foreign terrorist organization, citing its claims of rocket attacks on southern Israel and the group’s announcement of allegiance to the Islamic State.   While some may automatically automatically associate HAMAS (Islamic Resistance Movement) with Gaza, in fact, there are a number of nefarious Jihadist, Terrorist, Insurgents and hostile Asymmetric threats.
> 
> I'm quite sure that no regional country wants to release these threats without constraints or replace a country like Israel with a near failed state that has no reasonable expectation of success.  Remember, Palestinians are parasitic.   The will drain all the funds and potentials of a country and then turn towards other regional nation to sink their teeth into.
> 
> *Times of Israel -- 2 DEC 15 -- BY REBECCA SHIMONI STOIL  August 19, 2014*
> WASHINGTON — The US State Department designated an al-Qaeda affiliated group active in the Gaza Strip as a foreign terrorist organization Tuesday morning.​
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The flaw in Likud's strategy is that the opposition is not a few million stateless Palestinians herded into ghettoes in Gaza and the West Bank, it is the entire Arab people supported by world opinion and a majority of the member nations in the  UN.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If the Palestinians are "herded into ghettoes in Gaza and the West Bank," then that is a Arab Palestinian leadership problem that has cascaded into a deliberate program NOT to improve the quality of life of ALL people in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
> 
> "At its core, leadership is about people. Fundamental to this is that leaders take care of their people."
> "The leader who sends the message that people don’t really matter will generally not be as successful in the long-run as the leader who is genuinely serious about taking care of his people."
> -------  No Yelling - The 9 secrets of Marine Corps Leadership You Must Know to Win in Business - Wally Adamchik​
> The very lack of knowledge, skills and abilities manifested by the Palestinians represents a great incompetence --- that can manage the energies properly, generally produce a positive impact on the economy, standard of living, and the quality of life.  That is not the fault of the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Corollary to this fact, the Palestinian issue is not going to be resolved by gunfire but by political and economic pressure which neither Israel nor Palestine is able to resist. This would have happened years ago were it not for the USA blocking international effort in hopes of dictating terms favorable to the Jews in our self-appointed role as "honest broker." Nobody is buying that stuff any more, the rest is just a matter of time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> On most any political question, whether it be economically, militarily, commercially, or diplomatically, will have more than one vantage points and many points to consider before an intelligent decision on the best course of action is arrived at.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

or replace a country like Israel with a near failed state that has no reasonable expectation of success. Remember, Palestinians are parasitic.​
Of course Palestine did not need aid before Israel stole, bombed, and bulldozed their economic infrastructures.


----------



## Phoenall

Fishlore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.
> 
> The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.
> 
> These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.
> 
> 
> 
> As you said that they forced little Israel in the center of 400 million Arab muslim, and jews should understand it and learned from history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yet I remain optimistic about the longer term. Israel has a mutually beneficial role to play in the United States of Arabia, a role akin to that once enjoyed by Lebanon. The Israeli economy is profitably compatible with the surrounding Arab economies. Arab society has a long history of working out peaceful accommodations that are good for business. But a Western sort of Fort Apache perched on the al Aqsa mosque is essentially unsustainable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And we all saw what happened to Lebanon when the arab muslims decided that is was going to be an Islamic state, they destroyed its capital and mass murdered thousands of innocents. Now the indigenous people are held as slaves by the extremist muslims who are setting their sights on Israel next.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lebanon was part of Syria, much as Kuwait was part of Iraq. These colonial carve-ups tend to be inherently unstable. What destroyed Lebanon was Israel, a foreign body stabbed into the heart of Arabia which has produced the sort of infectious reaction such wounds always do.
> 
> The whole of the Levant is one of the most diverse and heterogenous parts of the Muslim world. Over the centuries, the Muslim record of minority toleration has been at least as good as that of Christendom. The disruptive invasion of Britain and France destroyed a social equilibrium that had taken generations to establish.
> 
> A similar phenomenon has taken pace across sub-Sahara Africa (and long before the rise of Boko Haram). Western imperialism has run like a roto-tiller across lands whose cultural, economic and religious patterns evolved over centuries. Strife among the shattered remnants of once-independent societies is the responsibility of the roto-tiller. Of course, Westerners are incapable of admitting that they have ever done anything wrong so elaborate schemes to blame the victims are the order of the day. We are the only ones who believe our lies.
Click to expand...






 Which Islamic source do you get your information from, I have never read so much lying crap in all my life. Lebanon was a state even under the Ottomans and Syria was not until after the demise of the Ottoman empire. The facts is the muslims are acting on the commands in their koran to take over the world and KILL THE UNBELIEVERS


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore,  et al,
> 
> Yes, most countries don't react well to intimidation.  Since before Israeli Independence, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have issued threat after threat to bully, scare, coerce and intimidate people, cultures, nations and governments to affect the conduct of ruling or influential powers in the furtherance of political or social objectives.  It is why we call them "unconventional" threats.
> 
> “We cannot forget that what’s happening in Gaza today (2014) will feed and fuel the desire for many more to join radical groups,”
> --- _Former FBI Director Robert Mueller --- _​
> What we think of the Palestinians is partially reflected in the thought that:  "In August 2014, the US Department of State designated the Mujahidin Shura Council in the Environs of Jerusalem, a Gaza-based umbrella group of jihadist organizations in the area, as a foreign terrorist organization, citing its claims of rocket attacks on southern Israel and the group’s announcement of allegiance to the Islamic State.   While some may automatically automatically associate HAMAS (Islamic Resistance Movement) with Gaza, in fact, there are a number of nefarious Jihadist, Terrorist, Insurgents and hostile Asymmetric threats.
> 
> I'm quite sure that no regional country wants to release these threats without constraints or replace a country like Israel with a near failed state that has no reasonable expectation of success.  Remember, Palestinians are parasitic.   The will drain all the funds and potentials of a country and then turn towards other regional nation to sink their teeth into.
> 
> *Times of Israel -- 2 DEC 15 -- BY REBECCA SHIMONI STOIL  August 19, 2014*
> WASHINGTON — The US State Department designated an al-Qaeda affiliated group active in the Gaza Strip as a foreign terrorist organization Tuesday morning.​
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The flaw in Likud's strategy is that the opposition is not a few million stateless Palestinians herded into ghettoes in Gaza and the West Bank, it is the entire Arab people supported by world opinion and a majority of the member nations in the  UN.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If the Palestinians are "herded into ghettoes in Gaza and the West Bank," then that is a Arab Palestinian leadership problem that has cascaded into a deliberate program NOT to improve the quality of life of ALL people in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
> 
> "At its core, leadership is about people. Fundamental to this is that leaders take care of their people."
> "The leader who sends the message that people don’t really matter will generally not be as successful in the long-run as the leader who is genuinely serious about taking care of his people."
> -------  No Yelling - The 9 secrets of Marine Corps Leadership You Must Know to Win in Business - Wally Adamchik​
> The very lack of knowledge, skills and abilities manifested by the Palestinians represents a great incompetence --- that can manage the energies properly, generally produce a positive impact on the economy, standard of living, and the quality of life.  That is not the fault of the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Corollary to this fact, the Palestinian issue is not going to be resolved by gunfire but by political and economic pressure which neither Israel nor Palestine is able to resist. This would have happened years ago were it not for the USA blocking international effort in hopes of dictating terms favorable to the Jews in our self-appointed role as "honest broker." Nobody is buying that stuff any more, the rest is just a matter of time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> On most any political question, whether it be economically, militarily, commercially, or diplomatically, will have more than one vantage points and many points to consider before an intelligent decision on the best course of action is arrived at.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> or replace a country like Israel with a near failed state that has no reasonable expectation of success. Remember, Palestinians are parasitic.​
> Of course Palestine did not need aid before Israel stole, bombed, and bulldozed their economic infrastructures.
Click to expand...






 Then why did they get it, as they started to receive hand outs in 1949 well before Israel retaliated to their acts of war ? Why did the UN change the rules to suit the muslims and give them their own very pricy refugee agency because the majority had less than two years residency in Palestine in 1949. The reprisals taken by Israel are legal and covered by IHL and the Geneva conventions much to your dismay, as you don't want the Jews to have any legal rights at all do you.


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.
> 
> The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.
> 
> These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.
> 
> 
> 
> As you said that they forced little Israel in the center of 400 million Arab muslim, and jews should understand it and learned from history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yet I remain optimistic about the longer term. Israel has a mutually beneficial role to play in the United States of Arabia, a role akin to that once enjoyed by Lebanon. The Israeli economy is profitably compatible with the surrounding Arab economies. Arab society has a long history of working out peaceful accommodations that are good for business. But a Western sort of Fort Apache perched on the al Aqsa mosque is essentially unsustainable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And we all saw what happened to Lebanon when the arab muslims decided that is was going to be an Islamic state, they destroyed its capital and mass murdered thousands of innocents. Now the indigenous people are held as slaves by the extremist muslims who are setting their sights on Israel next.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lebanon was part of Syria, much as Kuwait was part of Iraq. These colonial carve-ups tend to be inherently unstable. What destroyed Lebanon was Israel, a foreign body stabbed into the heart of Arabia which has produced the sort of infectious reaction such wounds always do.
> 
> The whole of the Levant is one of the most diverse and heterogenous parts of the Muslim world. Over the centuries, the Muslim record of minority toleration has been at least as good as that of Christendom. The disruptive invasion of Britain and France destroyed a social equilibrium that had taken generations to establish.
> 
> A similar phenomenon has taken pace across sub-Sahara Africa (and long before the rise of Boko Haram). Western imperialism has run like a roto-tiller across lands whose cultural, economic and religious patterns evolved over centuries. Strife among the shattered remnants of once-independent societies is the responsibility of the roto-tiller. Of course, Westerners are incapable of admitting that they have ever done anything wrong so elaborate schemes to blame the victims are the order of the day. We are the only ones who believe our lies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which Islamic source do you get your information from, I have never read so much lying crap in all my life. Lebanon was a state even under the Ottomans and Syria was not until after the demise of the Ottoman empire. The facts is the muslims are acting on the commands in their koran to take over the world and KILL THE UNBELIEVERS
Click to expand...

It is you phoney, who is spreading the hate around. you should accept it psycho phoney. please find better job for your living.


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.
> 
> The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.
> 
> These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.
> 
> 
> 
> As you said that they forced little Israel in the center of 400 million Arab muslim, and jews should understand it and learned from history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yet I remain optimistic about the longer term. Israel has a mutually beneficial role to play in the United States of Arabia, a role akin to that once enjoyed by Lebanon. The Israeli economy is profitably compatible with the surrounding Arab economies. Arab society has a long history of working out peaceful accommodations that are good for business. But a Western sort of Fort Apache perched on the al Aqsa mosque is essentially unsustainable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And we all saw what happened to Lebanon when the arab muslims decided that is was going to be an Islamic state, they destroyed its capital and mass murdered thousands of innocents. Now the indigenous people are held as slaves by the extremist muslims who are setting their sights on Israel next.
Click to expand...

Well, Israel is next" what comes around goes around.


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.
> 
> The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.
> 
> These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.
> 
> 
> 
> As you said that they forced little Israel in the center of 400 million Arab muslim, and jews should understand it and learned from history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have and that is why the Palestinians are kept under scrutiny and not allowed weapons. That is why Israel has armed itself to the max and will not hesitate to fire back at hamas and fatah
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The flaw in Likud's strategy is that the opposition is not a few million stateless Palestinians herded into ghettoes in Gaza and the West Bank, it is the entire Arab people supported by world opinion and a majority of the member nations in the  UN.
> 
> Corollary to this fact, the Palestinian issue is not going to be resolved by gunfire but by political and economic pressure which neither Israel nor Palestine is able to resist. This would have happened years ago were it not for the USA blocking international effort in hopes of dictating terms favorable to the Jews in our self-appointed role as "honest broker." Nobody is buying that stuff any more, the rest is just a matter of time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that was the case then the entire arab people would have invaded Israel with the majority of the UN member states at their side. They would be threatening Israel with nuclear weapons and bombing the Jews into extinction. So why isn't this happening, why aren't the arabs camped on Israels borders with their armies shooting anything that moves while the US, UK, France and Russia are doing high level flights and dropping bombs by the thousand on Israel.
> Could it be that you are LYING and don't really have a clue as to what is happening in the M.E.
> 
> No nation or group of nations can impose their views on the Jews or the Palestinians without being in breach of the UN charter, IHL or the Geneva conventions. So your propaganda is a non starter and is straight from the Palestinian handbook of BLOOD LIBELS and LIES. The UN should be made to enforce existing international laws that gave the whole of Jewish Palestine to the Jews for their national home. And then evict the arab muslims that do not want to live in peace to a country of their choosing as part of that international law. As you say it is just a matter of time before the UN collapses and the Palestinians face destitution and starvation because the rest of the arab world is refusing to lift a finger to help them
Click to expand...

pHONEY WHY DON'T YOU GIVE UP YOUR PROPAGANDIST JOB AND BE PEACE LOVER.


----------



## Rehmani

Fishlore said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.
> 
> The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.
> 
> These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.
> 
> 
> 
> As you said that they forced little Israel in the center of 400 million Arab muslim, and jews should understand it and learned from history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yet I remain optimistic about the longer term. Israel has a mutually beneficial role to play in the United States of Arabia, a role akin to that once enjoyed by Lebanon. The Israeli economy is profitably compatible with the surrounding Arab economies. Arab society has a long history of working out peaceful accommodations that are good for business. But a Western sort of Fort Apache perched on the al Aqsa mosque is essentially unsustainable.
Click to expand...

little israerl and little jew population around the world, all of a sudden got too much power, sound like having a problem to understand what you are saying.


----------



## Rehmani

Fishlore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.
> 
> The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.
> 
> These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.
> 
> 
> 
> As you said that they forced little Israel in the center of 400 million Arab muslim, and jews should understand it and learned from history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have and that is why the Palestinians are kept under scrutiny and not allowed weapons. That is why Israel has armed itself to the max and will not hesitate to fire back at hamas and fatah
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The flaw in Likud's strategy is that the opposition is not a few million stateless Palestinians herded into ghettoes in Gaza and the West Bank, it is the entire Arab people supported by world opinion and a majority of the member nations in the  UN.
> 
> Corollary to this fact, the Palestinian issue is not going to be resolved by gunfire but by political and economic pressure which neither Israel nor Palestine is able to resist. This would have happened years ago were it not for the USA blocking international effort in hopes of dictating terms favorable to the Jews in our self-appointed role as "honest broker." Nobody is buying that stuff any more, the rest is just a matter of time.
Click to expand...

Well it is not US or EU should understand it Jew, who should understand that they are living in the center of 400 million Arab......


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.
> 
> The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.
> 
> These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.
> 
> 
> 
> As you said that they forced little Israel in the center of 400 million Arab muslim, and jews should understand it and learned from history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have and that is why the Palestinians are kept under scrutiny and not allowed weapons. That is why Israel has armed itself to the max and will not hesitate to fire back at hamas and fatah
Click to expand...

lair phoney, Israel always bombing to innocent empty handed men and women and children. Why don't you accept this fact that phoney you are terrorist too.


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look body you can't compare some one like phoney who is living in UK with people of Palestine who are facing terror last 70 years by the Israeli army with modern war machine followed by wii elite force support.
> Be real Roccr.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only terror is that faced by the JEWS  from the arab muslims. they are only doing what a muslim has to do by the command of their false prophet and moon god. If they had not invaded in 1949 and tried to wipe out the Jews then they would not have been killed in vast numbers. If they did not fire illegal weapons from civilian areas that have been branded war crimes they would not see thousands of human shields killed in the backwash.   They showed their intent in 2005 when Israel removed all Jews from gaza and the Palestinians increased the numbers and severity of the terrorist attacks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why Arab Muslim will kill jews in Holy land. Arab muslim they are the one who open the door for jew in holy land
> and I will say that was wrong by arab muslim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And then proceeded to massacre them all over the world, and the muslims are still trying to massacre Jews today. They give with one hand and then take by force with the other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is your quality you are talking about. Fool whole world is watching that Jews are killing innocent people in israel, dumb can't you see.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I cant, and nor can 70% of the worlds population, what they do see is terrorists and violent scum are being killed in war. They see the illegal rockets fired at Israeli children and the muslims rejoicing every time one hits Israel. They see the mass murders of innocents by muslims all over the world, and the muslims having a party every time they kill another innocent. They see the Jordanian muslims firing live ammunition into prison camps in retribution for the Palestinians terrorist attacks and killing 20,000 to 50,000 Palestinians. That is more Palestinian murdered in one month by other muslims that Israel has killed in 67 years of warfare.. All proven to be true because it happened in living memory
Click to expand...

If this is the case then why whole world is against Israel, silly phoney either you are fool or you are thinking that world is fool.


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## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Phoenall said:
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> 
> 
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> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will say you don't live in UK. And your language is english either. you know nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then youi prove you know nothing what so ever and need to get an English education
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dumb just add "n" it become "neither". You are a trouble maker spreading hate and earning on it. Don't you think you are terrorist too. European parliament pass a bill against israeli goods and Israeli jews are unhappy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why can I buy Israeli goods in my local EU supermarket, because the law is unworkable in a union with separate laws. No I am not a terrorist as I am not using violence to force my religion or politics on anyone else, unlike you muslims that do it daily all over the world.  How is it hate to post the truth from Islamic sources like the koran and hadiths ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why israel is not happy. You are not but yours little tongue is moron. And they might be hypocrite or 100 million missing jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The missing Jews were mass murdered by muslims, it is all in the Islamic history texts starting with the hadiths. They were terrorists from the very start as shown by the commands in the koran to "strike terror in the hearts of the unbelievers". The only morons are those that deny the words written down in the koran and hadiths that tell the muslims to KILL THE JEWS. And they have done so for the last 1400 years, which is why so few are alive today.
Click to expand...

Look to me, you are neither jew nor english just hypocrite propagandist  who marking his number to make his boss happy from the propaganda company. Muslim never have war with jew in recent history and known jew never fought war either they use under cover missing jew or zionist.


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## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Israel was the outcome of a successive series of events moving towards self-determination; just as the hardships of the Arab Palestinians was a consequence of very poor self-actualization.
> 
> The difference is in the objective and goals.
> 
> •  The objective of the Arab Palestinian was to "prevent" the Jewish People from achieving an independent state.  _(The goal was NOT directed at achieving independence for themselves.)_  (PREVENTION)
> 
> •  The objective of the Jewish People was to "achieving" an independent state.  _(The goal was NOT to prevent or hinder the Arab Palestinian from achieving independence.)_ (ACHIEVEMENT)​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was Israel created as part of the resolution 181 process or was it a unilateral move?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel was a creation of the Jewish People through their exercise of "collective self-determination;" nation building.  It was the national aspiration deemed necessary as a matter of cultural self preservation.
> 
> The GA Resolution 181 was the "*HOW TO BOOK*" by the UN and the recommendations of the Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP).  It was the UNSCOP that wrote the "Steps Preparatory to Independence"  _(the "HOW")_ and it was the General Assembly that adopted the recommendation as the proper steps _(international consensus)_.  BUT is was the Jewish People that initiated the action, completed the process to the extent possible _(opposed by Powerful Arab Forces)_, and declared independence.
> 
> It was the collective decision of the Arab League to use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state (external interference).  A violation of the Article 2(4) Principle of the UN Charter.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Roccar you are working hard to change the facts, please don't do that. Honesty is good policy. Let the world have peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He has changed no facts at all and just posts genuine reports from valid sources to prove muslims are evil, vile and untrustworthy. A thousand years of washing will never remove the blood on your hands
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know about roccor, but you are not English neither english is first tongue. What roccor talking about is that elite forces invade holy land from Turkey and gave to Jews and invader makes all laws too. And he is trying to force invader story over 1000 years of holy land history and he wants accept these new facts force by invaders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am as much English as you are Islamic, and I can trace my descendants back to the Norman Conquest. You would be lucky if you could trace your grandfather. You are the last person that should be passing any comments on another persons English, as you abuse and bastardise English as if you cant be bothered to learn it.
> 
> The muslims from where ever invade everywhere they can to take over the world, then they cry about being invaded themselves and removed from the lands they have stolen. They were invented as land thieves, mass murderers and rapists by the false prophet who made no prophetic announcements at all. They emulate his life with child rape, theft and murder, and complain they are being treated unfairly when they are punished for their crimes.
> 
> Now to get back to the topic from the conquest by the Roman Empire till 1960 the only palestinians were the Jews, and to call a muslim a Palestinian was to insult him, his family and his religion.
Click to expand...

phoney you are lying again, you must be hake some English man ID to hide your dirt and call your self english. And jews were not in holy land since Roman kicked them out 2000 years ago and roman were right but who invite jew in haly land 900 years ago were wrong.


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## Fishlore

Phoenall said:


> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.
> 
> The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.
> 
> These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.
> 
> 
> 
> As you said that they forced little Israel in the center of 400 million Arab muslim, and jews should understand it and learned from history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yet I remain optimistic about the longer term. Israel has a mutually beneficial role to play in the United States of Arabia, a role akin to that once enjoyed by Lebanon. The Israeli economy is profitably compatible with the surrounding Arab economies. Arab society has a long history of working out peaceful accommodations that are good for business. But a Western sort of Fort Apache perched on the al Aqsa mosque is essentially unsustainable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And we all saw what happened to Lebanon when the arab muslims decided that is was going to be an Islamic state, they destroyed its capital and mass murdered thousands of innocents. Now the indigenous people are held as slaves by the extremist muslims who are setting their sights on Israel next.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lebanon was part of Syria, much as Kuwait was part of Iraq. These colonial carve-ups tend to be inherently unstable. What destroyed Lebanon was Israel, a foreign body stabbed into the heart of Arabia which has produced the sort of infectious reaction such wounds always do.
> 
> The whole of the Levant is one of the most diverse and heterogenous parts of the Muslim world. Over the centuries, the Muslim record of minority toleration has been at least as good as that of Christendom. The disruptive invasion of Britain and France destroyed a social equilibrium that had taken generations to establish.
> 
> A similar phenomenon has taken pace across sub-Sahara Africa (and long before the rise of Boko Haram). Western imperialism has run like a roto-tiller across lands whose cultural, economic and religious patterns evolved over centuries. Strife among the shattered remnants of once-independent societies is the responsibility of the roto-tiller. Of course, Westerners are incapable of admitting that they have ever done anything wrong so elaborate schemes to blame the victims are the order of the day. We are the only ones who believe our lies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which Islamic source do you get your information from, I have never read so much lying crap in all my life. Lebanon was a state even under the Ottomans and Syria was not until after the demise of the Ottoman empire. The facts is the muslims are acting on the commands in their koran to take over the world and KILL THE UNBELIEVERS
Click to expand...

It appears that you have never read much of anything, lying crap or not, in your life. Until 1920, none of the provinces of what is now Lebanon and Syria enjoyed the status of nations. The region was a series of Ottoman provinces. 

The 1920 administration of the region under the French was carried out in an endless administrative reshuffling which created a Syrian, federation, then a Syrian state and finally a Syrian Republic in 1930. Concurrent under this French mandate were separate non-sovereign administrative states for Alawites, Druze and Lebanese Christians. 

It is a complicated and now moot period if French colonial history. I am sympathetic with your struggle to grasp the details. Your hostile discourtesy, however, is something that I have no wish nor need to put up with. You have earned you spot on my ignore list. Bye bye


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## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Israel was the outcome of a successive series of events moving towards self-determination; just as the hardships of the Arab Palestinians was a consequence of very poor self-actualization.
> 
> The difference is in the objective and goals.
> 
> •  The objective of the Arab Palestinian was to "prevent" the Jewish People from achieving an independent state.  _(The goal was NOT directed at achieving independence for themselves.)_  (PREVENTION)
> 
> •  The objective of the Jewish People was to "achieving" an independent state.  _(The goal was NOT to prevent or hinder the Arab Palestinian from achieving independence.)_ (ACHIEVEMENT)​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel was a creation of the Jewish People through their exercise of "collective self-determination;" nation building.  It was the national aspiration deemed necessary as a matter of cultural self preservation.
> 
> The GA Resolution 181 was the "*HOW TO BOOK*" by the UN and the recommendations of the Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP).  It was the UNSCOP that wrote the "Steps Preparatory to Independence"  _(the "HOW")_ and it was the General Assembly that adopted the recommendation as the proper steps _(international consensus)_.  BUT is was the Jewish People that initiated the action, completed the process to the extent possible _(opposed by Powerful Arab Forces)_, and declared independence.
> 
> It was the collective decision of the Arab League to use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state (external interference).  A violation of the Article 2(4) Principle of the UN Charter.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Roccar you are working hard to change the facts, please don't do that. Honesty is good policy. Let the world have peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He has changed no facts at all and just posts genuine reports from valid sources to prove muslims are evil, vile and untrustworthy. A thousand years of washing will never remove the blood on your hands
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know about roccor, but you are not English neither english is first tongue. What roccor talking about is that elite forces invade holy land from Turkey and gave to Jews and invader makes all laws too. And he is trying to force invader story over 1000 years of holy land history and he wants accept these new facts force by invaders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am as much English as you are Islamic, and I can trace my descendants back to the Norman Conquest. You would be lucky if you could trace your grandfather. You are the last person that should be passing any comments on another persons English, as you abuse and bastardise English as if you cant be bothered to learn it.
> 
> The muslims from where ever invade everywhere they can to take over the world, then they cry about being invaded themselves and removed from the lands they have stolen. They were invented as land thieves, mass murderers and rapists by the false prophet who made no prophetic announcements at all. They emulate his life with child rape, theft and murder, and complain they are being treated unfairly when they are punished for their crimes.
> 
> Now to get back to the topic from the conquest by the Roman Empire till 1960 the only palestinians were the Jews, and to call a muslim a Palestinian was to insult him, his family and his religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> phoney you are lying again, you must be hake some English man ID to hide your dirt and call your self english. And jews were not in holy land since Roman kicked them out 2000 years ago and roman were right but who invite jew in haly land 900 years ago were wrong.
Click to expand...






 The Jews have lived in the holy land for 4,500 years without a break, then the Christians managed 2000 years. Lastly the muslims have a scant 1000 years in the holy land, and 22 years in Palestine.  The Ottomans invited the Jews in 1850 because the arab muslims were too lazy to work the land. All in the Islamic historical records.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro

The next person to make an off topic post in this thread is getting infracted and booted from it.


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## American_Jihad

*Op-Ed: Palestine: Not a state, but already a failure*
The PA is a failure and any state built on its ruins will be a worse failure.

Published: Monday, December 21, 2015
Leonie Ben-Simon

During the last century the great powers drew lines in the sands of the Middle East as they divided up what used to be the Ottoman Empire. 

Today Syria is being eyed by the powers of today as the buzz-word “failed state” puts it into the same situation that war and mediation have not been able to resolve. The old tribal hatreds magnified due to a large population have reared their ugly heads, resulting in wholesale killings with no end in sight.  But Syria is not the only failed state in the region.  The newest non-member of the United Nations has already failed before it has started:  Palestine. 

What are the attributes of a failed state?

Such a state’s common definition is one that has no control over its territory, one in which there is an erosion of legitimate authority to make collective decisions and one which cannot provide continuing public services such as electricity.  Corruption is usually a hallmark of a failed state as is economic decline and dependence upon charitable organizations.

If it looks like a duck, and sounds like a duck it probably is a duck.  This is despite the United Nations recent decision to give credence to what a "Palestinian State” means.  It is and will be a failed state.  Their votes are merely a reflection of what is in the interests of the majority of members of the UN, nothing more and nothing less. 

The United Nations voted for the State of Israel to exist when it suited them in 1947 and it now is voting to give the same land away to others.  In disregarding our claim to our ancestral lands based on what was given to us by G-d, the United Nations has moved to set up something that is known as a failed state, past and future. 

The failure to control the territory that Hamas and Fatah state loudly and publicly is the first and major marker of a failed state.  Particularly after the debacle whereby Israel withdrew from Gaza in the name of peace, it is unlikely that Israel will surrender one inch of territory.  The Palestinians may mark maps of the Land of Israel as theirs, they may change Israel’s name to Palestine in their children’s story books and can attempt to brainwash a whole population to believe that it is theirs, but it is not and never will be.  This will be even more so after Israeli voters turned right, mainly as a consequence of Hamas’s rockets and suicide bombers.

Failed states have an erosion of legitimate authority. Hamas rules in Gaza by force and by terror. Dissent of any sort is met with death without trial, bodies dragged around the streets, rocket launchers being located in residential areas without the free consent of home-owners whilst civilians are being used as human shields. Dissenters do not have an alternative if they want to live.

Huge sums of money keep Palestinians in business. There is no proper economy for the simple reason that the real economy is dedicated to the destruction of Israel. The GDP of Gaza works like this:  The United Nations supplies the money for subsistence together with the good people of the European Union and donors to charities world-wide.  There is also incoming war materiel from Iran and other enemies of Israel.  Apart from a small amount of fishing and farming there is little other produce, unless weaponry and rocket production is counted.  Abbas has thrown up his hands in despair as his fictional Palestine is effectively broke, whilst promises of financial support from his brothers in other lands have not been forthcoming.

Unlike every other country in the world, the UN and its agency set up and dedicated to the Palestinians, UNRWA, make no effort to resettle the people of Gaza, but actively support and encourage the high birth-rate.  The day that the UN and charities stop bankrolling the 1.6 million Gazans who have been on the world’s payroll collecting this largesse, they will simply have no income. 

The humanitarian refugee problem that used to be part of Egypt will not experience a sharp economic decline when the United Nations stops funding it. It will just stop. The United Nations and charitable organizations have built a monster whilst never planning for tomorrow.

Corruption is endemic, coupled with bribery and the inability to pay civil servants and medical staff proper wages on time, resulting in a deterioration of public services.  The hundreds of millions of dollars that Yasser Arafat stashed away is only a small part of the story. The Hamas ruling class live in beautiful homes driving Mercedes and the like in stark contrast to the rest of their people living in sub-standard housing. Things are no different in the few Arab cities of Israel where Fatah is on the take. This is another hallmark of a failed state.

Basic services such as electricity are provided by Israel who amazingly provides repair services whilst Hamas shoots at its service technicians.  Specialist medical services such as operations on children requiring heart surgery and Syrian war injuries are also donated by Israel in Israeli hospitals.  

Whilst the leaders of this imaginary state work towards a world-wide propaganda effort to legitimize those who call themselves Palestinians it should be remembered that they were originally mostly Arab economic migrants from Egypt, Algeria, Africa and much of the Middle East.  Only a minority are refugees from the wars with Israel now living in cities labelled as refugee camps, complete with multi-storey buildings going up to house those who are benefiting from corruption. 

...

Palestine: Not a state, but already a failure - Op-Eds - Arutz Sheva


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## montelatici

The Palestinians Muslim and Christians, are the native people of Palestine.  The migrants were the Europeans that invaded and colonized Palestine beginning in the mid 1800s.  Quit lying.  

*UNITED 

NATIONS 

A 

General Assembly 

A/364 

3 September 1947 

OFFICIAL RECORDS OF THE SECOND SESSION OF 

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY 

SUPPLEMENT No. 11 

UNITED NATIONS 

SPECIAL COMMITTEE 

ON PALESTINE *​REPORT TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY

VOLUME 1 


15. These changes in the population have been brought about by two forces: natural

increase and immigration. *The great increase in the Jewish population is due in the main 

to immigration. From 1920 to 1946, t*he total number of recorded Jewish immigrants into

Palestine was about 376,000, or an average of over 8,000 per year. The flow has not

been regular, however, being fairly high in 1924 to 1926, falling in the next few years

(there was a net emigration in 1927) and rising to even higher levels between 1933 and

1936 as a result of the Nazi persecution in Europe. Between the census year of 1931

and the year 1936, the proportion of Jews to the total population rose from 18 per cent to

nearly 30 per cent.

16. *The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births 

over deaths*....."

A/364 of 3 September 1947


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## Fishlore

It is a hot line from the AIPAC lobby that the Palestinians don't "deserve" a state of their own because they don't make enough money. This is a traditional Jewish argument. Of course, it's hard to make a buck when you and your family are locked in a kosher stalag. 

We should consider bringing this idea back home. What about the American states which receive more money from the federal government than they pay to Washington in taxes? Do these welfare sponges really deserve to have a state of their own?


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## American_Jihad

Fishlore said:


> It is a hot line from the AIPAC lobby that the Palestinians don't "deserve" a state of their own because they don't make enough money. This is a traditional Jewish argument. Of course, it's hard to make a buck when you and your family are locked in a kosher stalag.
> 
> We should consider bringing this idea back home. What about the American states which receive more money from the federal government than they pay to Washington in taxes? Do these welfare sponges really deserve to have a state of their own?


You must be talking about them blue states...


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## Fishlore

American_Jihad said:


> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a hot line from the AIPAC lobby that the Palestinians don't "deserve" a state of their own because they don't make enough money. This is a traditional Jewish argument. Of course, it's hard to make a buck when you and your family are locked in a kosher stalag.
> 
> We should consider bringing this idea back home. What about the American states which receive more money from the federal government than they pay to Washington in taxes? Do these welfare sponges really deserve to have a state of their own?
> 
> 
> 
> You must be talking about them blue states...
Click to expand...


Nope. The "small government" red states are the big welfare sponges. Take a gander:

Mississippi and New Mexico, each gets back about $3 in federal spending for every dollar they send to the federal treasury in taxes. Alabama and Louisiana are close behind. South Carolina gets $7.87 back from Washington for every $1 its citizens pay in federal tax.

Which States Are Givers and Which Are Takers?

TEA Party conservative types are freeloaders. It's the blue states who sign the checks.


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## Boston1

Man that got off track fast. 

In the end I'd agree with the OP that while the revisionists would have us believe the people living in the British mandate area prior to the creation of either Jordan or Israel were somehow distinct and possessing of their own culture separate from that of any number of surrounding Arab states. I believe its more than obvious these people were colonists from the Muslim Arab invasion and were in fact a conglomeration of peoples from a variety of North African states. 

The best most recent genetic studies bear this out. 

Genetic Evidence for the Expansion of Arabian Tribes into ...


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## montelatici

Boston1 said:


> Man that got off track fast.
> 
> In the end I'd agree with the OP that while the revisionists would have us believe the people living in the British mandate area prior to the creation of either Jordan or Israel were somehow distinct and possessing of their own culture separate from that of any number of surrounding Arab states. I believe its more than obvious these people were colonists from the Muslim Arab invasion and were in fact a conglomeration of peoples from a variety of North African states.
> 
> The best most recent genetic studies bear this out.
> 
> Genetic Evidence for the Expansion of Arabian Tribes into ...



You are getting sillier and sillier.  The Arabians were from what is now Saudi Arabia.  The Arabians were very few in number (deserts do not tend to facilitate large populations) and were represented in the officer corps of the Muslim armies 90% of which were made up of local converts from Christianity. 

By the way. North Africans were not invaded (did not adopt the Arab language and culture or convert to Islam) until after Palestine was conquered from the Romans. 

The only colonists were the Zionists.


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## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Boston1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man that got off track fast.
> 
> In the end I'd agree with the OP that while the revisionists would have us believe the people living in the British mandate area prior to the creation of either Jordan or Israel were somehow distinct and possessing of their own culture separate from that of any number of surrounding Arab states. I believe its more than obvious these people were colonists from the Muslim Arab invasion and were in fact a conglomeration of peoples from a variety of North African states.
> 
> The best most recent genetic studies bear this out.
> 
> Genetic Evidence for the Expansion of Arabian Tribes into ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are getting sillier and sillier.  The Arabians were from what is now Saudi Arabia.  The Arabians were very few in number (deserts do not tend to facilitate large populations) and were represented in the officer corps of the Muslim armies 90% of which were made up of local converts from Christianity.
> 
> By the way. North Africans were not invaded (did not adopt the Arab language and culture or convert to Islam) until after Palestine was conquered from the Romans.
> 
> The only colonists were the Zionists.
Click to expand...

Your employment of taqiyya is juvenile. The invaders were the Islamist hordes as part of the Ottoman Crusades. Ignoring history when you find that it conflicts with your revisionist version of history is easily refuted.


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## Boston1

montelatici said:


> Boston1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man that got off track fast.
> 
> In the end I'd agree with the OP that while the revisionists would have us believe the people living in the British mandate area prior to the creation of either Jordan or Israel were somehow distinct and possessing of their own culture separate from that of any number of surrounding Arab states. I believe its more than obvious these people were colonists from the Muslim Arab invasion and were in fact a conglomeration of peoples from a variety of North African states.
> 
> The best most recent genetic studies bear this out.
> 
> Genetic Evidence for the Expansion of Arabian Tribes into ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are getting sillier and sillier.  The Arabians were from what is now Saudi Arabia.  The Arabians were very few in number (deserts do not tend to facilitate large populations) and were represented in the officer corps of the Muslim armies 90% of which were made up of local converts from Christianity.
> 
> By the way. North Africans were not invaded (did not adopt the Arab language and culture or convert to Islam) until after Palestine was conquered from the Romans.
> 
> The only colonists were the Zionists.
Click to expand...


WOW 

Interesting what people can come up with then they ignore the facts 

Lets try some facts again ;--) 

Genetic Evidence for the Expansion of Arabian Tribes into ...


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## Fishlore

Israel is a European colony more like Hong Kong than a real country. Israel cannot exist on its own; it requires billions of dollars in military assistance, charity donations, tax loopholes and sweetheart business deals to remain viable. It is the size of New Jersey with a population like New York City. It can't even grow its own food. Hong Kong lasted as a British colony for well over a century. The previous Holy Land colony, the Kingdom of Jerusalem lasted a bit longer. Israel hasn't gotten nearly that far (yet).

The original Zionist dream was a homeland for the Jews in a purely secular state in which all religions were respected on an equal footing. That is what Chaim Weizmann describes and what the Balfour Declaration promises. Jews, the founding Zionists proclaimed, were to live in cooperative integration with their Muslim cousins.

How things changed between the publication of the Balfour Declaration and independence in 1948 is a long and contentious story. Whatever groups were responsible for the 180 degree change of course, we are now at a point at which Likud is proclaiming Eretz Israel and Bibi is proposing "group rights" for Jews only. Four hundred million Arabs are never going to accept this and Israel, even with the unlimited financial and military support of the USA does not have the power to impose it.

It is possible that we will have a century of _intifada_ and violent repression, but it is unlikely as US enthusiasm is waning and the world's patience is running out. We may have some sort of bloody convulsion that will resolve the issue much as the Romans did the last time the Jews attempted to set up a "homeland" in Palestine. Or a way may be found to return to the original Zionist vision of cooperative integration. I don't see a fourth option. Anyone? Anyone?


----------



## Shusha

The only place where there is no cooperative integration between the Jewish people and our Muslim cousins is in the area under the control of the PA.  And Gaza.  Oh, and Jordan.  And Lebanon.  And Syria.  And....oh wait.....every other Muslim-majority state...well....everywhere.  Hmmmm.  Well, that's awkward.


----------



## Hollie

Shusha said:


> The only place where there is no cooperative integration between the Jewish people and our Muslim cousins is in the area under the control of the PA.  And Gaza.  Oh, and Jordan.  And Lebanon.  And Syria.  And....oh wait.....every other Muslim-majority state...well....everywhere.  Hmmmm.  Well, that's awkward.


If I may suggest an alternate view with a modification to your list:

"The only place where there is no cooperative integration between the Jewish people, _(people of competing faiths, cultures and backgrounds, or even Moslems who are the "wrong kind" of Moslems, ed.)_ and our Muslim cousins......."


----------



## American_Jihad

Now some crazy libtard will come along and say "those little bottle rockets won't hurt anyone", morons...
*Gaza rockets strike Israel: army *
1 / 22








AFP
6 hrs ago






...

Sunni militants claiming links to the Islamic State jihadist group have said they were behind rocket fire from the Palestinian enclave in recent months, but Israel holds Hamas responsible for all such incidents.

Earlier on Friday, two Palestinians were moderately wounded by Israeli gunfire after they stormed the border fence in northern Gaza, the Israeli army and Gaza medics said.

Gaza rockets strike Israel: army


----------



## American_Jihad

*Hezbollah’s Dangerous Game*
* The fate the next Lebanon war spells for Iran’s troublesome regional proxy. *
January 8, 2016
Ari Lieberman






On January 4, Iran’s Shiite Lebanese mercenary force, Hezbollah, detonated a large explosive device on the Lebanon-Israel border in the Mount Dov region. Their target was a pair of Israeli D-9 armored bulldozers clearing the area of brush and other obstructions. There were no Israeli casualties.

Israel had anticipated an attack from Hezbollah following its liquidation of Samir Kuntar – the notorious child-killer turned Hezbollah commander – and other senior pro-Assad mercenaries in a Damascus suburb on December 19, 2015. Israel’s Chief of Staff Gadi Eizenkot warned Hezbollah of “harsh” consequences if the group decided to initiate a terror attack to avenge Kuntar.

The attack itself accomplished nothing. The heavily armored D-9 bulldozers were able to withstand the blast. In an effort to bolster its image and play to a demoralized constituency, Hezbollah claimed that the attack targeted a senior Mossad official and wounded some Israelis. The claim of course was false but demonstrates Hezbollah’s desperation.

In July and August of 2006, Israel and Hezbollah fought a 33-day war. Hezbollah propagandists tried to spin the war as a Hezbollah victory but the reality on the ground was quite different and the war in fact, represented a major strategic victory for Israel. Hezbollah lost between 600 to 1,000 fighters and much of its infrastructure, painstakingly constructed with Iranian and North Korean assistance, was destroyed. Most importantly, the war established Israeli deterrence and imposed new rules on Hezbollah. The group could no longer rely on a predictable, measured Israeli response to border provocations. Instead, the new rules meant that Israel could and would respond with overwhelming force to any provocation.

The most telling account of the conflict came from none other than Hezbollah’s leader Hassan Nasrallah, who noted that he would have never initiated the terror attack that preceded the conflict had he known of the Israeli response beforehand. Indeed, since 2006 Israel’s Lebanon border experienced a quiet not witnessed since the early 1960s.

Following the conflict, Hezbollah, in anticipation of the next round, began a period of reconstruction and rearmament. Financed by Iranian petro dollars, it acquired sophisticated anti-tank missiles and cruise missiles and increased its rocket arsenal from 12,000 to over 100,000. Some of these rockets are said to be capable of hitting targets south of Tel-Aviv.

Most of the weapons were either transported overland through Syria or sent directly to Beirut International Airport, where Hezbollah operatives maintain complete control. These weapons transfers represented a clear violation of UN Resolution 1701 but the Western component of the UN had no stomach to challenge the Syrian-Iranian-Hezbollah Axis of Evil and the Muslim component either didn’t care or actually supported it.

...

Hezbollah’s Dangerous Game


----------



## montelatici

Boston1 said:


> Man that got off track fast.
> 
> In the end I'd agree with the OP that while the revisionists would have us believe the people living in the British mandate area prior to the creation of either Jordan or Israel were somehow distinct and possessing of their own culture separate from that of any number of surrounding Arab states. I believe its more than obvious these people were colonists from the Muslim Arab invasion and were in fact a conglomeration of peoples from a variety of North African states.
> 
> The best most recent genetic studies bear this out.
> 
> Genetic Evidence for the Expansion of Arabian Tribes into ...



Posting Zionist propaganda does not help your cause.  Especially when the official data is easily available for posting:

Migration statistics Palestine show that of 414,456 migrants to Palestine from 1920 to 1946, 376,415 were Jews.  More than 90%.




 

A Survey of Palestine Volume 1 Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner Page 17.

Then comes the claim of illegal immigration.  The Survey also debunks that idea by citing the following:

*"59. The conclusion is that Arab illegal immigration for the purposes of permanent settlement is insignificant."*

A Survey of Palestine Vol 1, page 212, para. 59

A Survey of Palestine Volume 1 Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner

Concluding that the illegal immigrants included tens of  thousands of Jews in 1946.

 "*It follows that the Jewish population may now include between 50,000 and 60,000 illegal immigrants *who have
settled in Palestine at any time since 1920 when the first Immigration Ordinance was enacted. The number of Jewish illegal
immigrants recorded during 1945 is 370."

A Survey of Palestine Vol 1, page 212, para. 59

A Survey of Palestine Volume 1 Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner

A Survey of Palestine Volume 1  | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ NYU Wagner


----------



## American_Jihad

*Coordinated assault*
* Are Palestinian cold-blooded killers like Murad Adais really "lone wolves"? *
January 25, 2016
Caroline Glick






_Originally published by the __Jerusalem Post._

‘I’m proud of him.”

That’s what the father of Dafna Meir’s murderer said when the Palestinian media asked him what he thinks of his cold-blooded son Murad Adais.

On Sunday afternoon, Adais butchered Meir in her home, in front of her children.

Whether Adais Sr. is really happy that his son will rot in prison is less important than the fact that he said what he said to his home crowd.

He knows that his audience thinks his son is a hero. And so he played to his audience.

Since last September when the Palestinians began their current terrorist onslaught, killers like Adais have been characterized as lone wolves. But a study published last November in Mosaic online journal by Shalem College’s Daniel Polisar shows that this characterization is both wrong and unhelpful.

Polisar studied Palestinian public opinion data from surveys conducted by four independent research groups over the past 25 years. His data exposed three key aspects to Palestinian positions about Israel that all bear directly on the current Palestinian terrorist offensive.

His first finding is that throughout most of the past quarter-century a solid majority of Palestinians have supported terrorism against Israelis.

Moreover, the more murderous an attack, the more it is supported.

Polisar’s second finding was that the vast majority of Palestinians hate Israelis and believe that Jews have no right to the Land of Israel, and therefore our state has no right to exist.

Taken together, these first two insights lead to one clear conclusion about the nature of the current Palestinian terrorism campaign against Israelis. As Polisar explained, they show that this campaign is not being carried out by “lone wolves,” who have been incited by Palestinian Authority propaganda. Rather, that propaganda reflects the murderous hatred that the vast majority of Palestinians feel toward Israelis and Israel.

Adais and his comrades may or may not be members of terrorist groups. But they are the loyal representatives of their terrorism-supporting society.

Obviously, any talk of a peace process in this climate is utter folly. The most Israel can aspire to is to deter the hate-soaked Palestinians from attacking us.

This brings us to the third insight of Polisar’s study. Twenty-five years of survey data make clear that most Palestinians believe that terrorism pays.

And the plain fact is that they are right. For the past generation, the Palestinians have only benefited from killing Israelis through terrorism.

The fact that Israeli concessions to the Palestinians have strengthened their conviction that terrorism pays rather than convinced them to make peace shows that all concessions in the face of terrorism are dangerous.

While the majority of Israelis have learned this lesson and so elected governments that oppose appeasement, the Palestinians have learned that the Israeli public does not have the final word on whether or not they will be rewarded for their crimes against humanity.

The Palestinians believe that Israel is dependent on Western goodwill. So to the extent that the West pressures Israel surrender to Palestinian demands, the US and the EU work hand in glove with Palestinian terrorists and prove that they are right to murder mothers in their homes in front of their children.

This week US Ambassador Dan Shapiro proved the Palestinians right, yet again.

At the outset of his speech before the Institute of National Security Studies on Monday, Shapiro issued a pro forma condemnation of “barbaric acts of terrorism” against Israelis at the outset of his remarks.

But that was just clearing his throat. In his substantive remarks, Shapiro accused Israel of institutional racism in Judea and Samaria.

...

Our options for dealing with this assault are not optimal. But they are formidable. If we make judicious use of them, we can flummox the White House and the EU, and at a minimum, we can begin to prove to the Palestinians that their faith in terrorism is no longer justified.

Coordinated assault


----------



## American_Jihad

*Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Simple Answers to False Claims*
* Defeating the radicals begins with the facts. *
January 25, 2016
Dr. Shmuel Katz






*Reprinted from** Aish.com.*

It took the Arab propaganda machine decades of persistent, aggressive effort to convince many oblivious individuals – including some world leaders – of the canard that Jews illegally occupy Arab land, having "stolen it from Palestinians."

The Mideast conflict may be complicated to solve, but is quite easily explained:


The Jewish people have an unbroken 4,000-year national history in the land of Israel.
Never in history has there been an Arab Palestinian State.
The Palestinian movement was founded to annihilate Israel.
Let's look at some facts:

The Palestinian movement (PLO) was founded with the express purpose of destroying Israel. The PLO Covenant – adopted in 1964, long before Israel held any disputed territories – calls "to move forward on the path of jihad until complete and final victory is achieved," i.e. the annihilation of Israel.

Fatah refers to Mohammed signing an insincere "peace treaty."
This view permeates the Palestinian movement: Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah's "Party of God," and Hamas (acronym for Islamic Resistance Movement) all share the goal of destroying Israel. Mahmoud Abbas' political party – "Fatah" – is the name of chapter 48 of the Koran which describes Mohammed signing a "peace treaty" as a way to gain leverage and launch an attack.

At the root of Palestinian ideology is this "phased plan" to destroy Israel. Palestinian statesman Faisal Husseini described peace agreements with Israel as a Trojan Horse:

"If we agree to declare our state over what is now only 22 percent of Palestine, meaning the West Bank and Gaza – our ultimate goal is [still] the liberation of all historical Palestine from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] sea, even if this means that the conflict will last for another thousand years or for many generations."

It is cheap to talk about peace, and dangerously emboldens those who lack true commitment to peace. Genuine Arab-Israeli conciliation will require genuine peace partners – not conniving perpetrators planning to liquidate Israel in stages.

*The war against Israel is bolstered by anti-Semites in the West.*
The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions Movement (BDS) – a global campaign to put economic and political pressure on Israel – gives anti-Semites the veneer of "humanitarian cause" to spew venom against Israel.

In its efforts to isolate and stigmatize Israel – the only true democracy in the Middle East – BDS makes a false analogy between Israel and Apartheid South Africa. Israel was the first Middle East country to grant Arab women the right to vote. One-third of the staff at Jerusalem's Hadassah Hospital are Arabs. Israeli-Arab Salim Joubran sits on Israel's Supreme Court, and Israeli-Arab Majalli Wahabi has served as acting President of Israel.

Ironically, anti-Israel boycotts actually harm the Palestinians.
With great irony, BDS actually harms Palestinians. SodaStream's West Bank factory gainfully employed 900 Palestinians working side-by-side with Israelis – building bridges of peace, and earning wages far greater than Palestinian employers would pay. Yet BDS forced the factory to close, causing 900 Palestinian families to lose their primary source of income.

For BDS activists, harming Palestinians is apparently a fair price to pay for harming Israel.

This smear campaign includes pressuring artists and musicians to cancel appearances in Israel. For example, when Paul McCartney announced a performance in Israel, Islamist leader Omar Bakri Muhammad threatened:

“Paul McCartney is the enemy of every Muslim... If he values his life, Mr. McCartney must not come to Israel. He will not be safe there. The sacrifice operatives [i.e. suicide squads] will be waiting for him.”

Rather than forging peace, supporting BDS encourages the work of anti-Semites.

*The Solution: Free Speech*
*
...

Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Simple Answers to False Claims*


----------



## montelatici

Israel is as democratic as Apartheid South Africa.


----------



## abu afak

*The Smoking Gun: Arab Immigration into Palestine, 1922-1931
by Fred M. Gottheil
Middle East Quarterly
Winter 2003, pp. 53-64*

*['........]
Evidence for Arab Migration*
There are several problems associated with estimating Arab immigration into Palestine during the 1920s, the principal one being that *Arab migration flows were, in the main, illegal, and therefore unreported and unrecorded.[17] But they were not entirely unnoticed.*

Demographer U.O. Schmelz's analysis of the Ottoman registration data for 1905 populations of Jerusalem and Hebron _kaza_s (Ottoman districts), by place of birth, showed that of those* Arab Palestinians born outside their localities of residence, approximately HALF represented intra-Palestine movement—from areas of low-level economic activity to areas of higher-level activity—while the other half represented Arab immigration into Palestine itself, 43% originating in Asia, 39% in Africa, and 20% in Turkey.*[18] Schmelz conjectured:

The above-average population growth of the Arab villages around the city of Jerusalem, with its Jewish majority, continued until the end of the mandatory period. This must have been due—as elsewhere in Palestine under similar conditions—to in-migrants attracted by economic opportunities, and to the beneficial effects of improved health services in reducing mortality—_just as happened in other parts of Palestine around cities with a large Jewish population sector_.[19]

While Schmelz restricted his research of the 1905 Palestinian census to the official Ottoman registrations and used these registrations with only minor critical comment, he did acknowledge that "stable population models assume the absence of external migrations, _a condition which was obviously not met by all the subpopulations_" that Schmelz enumerated.[20]

Like U.O. Schmelz, Roberto Bachi expressed some reservation about the virtual non-existence of data and discussion concerning migration into and within Palestine. He writes:

Between 1800 and 1914, the Muslim population had a yearly average increase in the order of magnitude of roughly 6-7 per thousand. This can be compared to the very crude estimate of about 4 per thousand for the "less developed countries" of the world (in Asia, Africa, and Latin America) between 1800 and 1910. _It is possible that part of the growth of the Muslim population was due to Immigration_.[21]

Although Bachi did not pursue the linkage between undocumented immigration into Palestine and the 6 (or 7) to 4 per thousand differential in growth rates between Palestine and the other less developed countries (LDCs), the idea that at least one-third of Palestine's population growth may be attributed to immigration is—using Bachi's own growth rate differentials—not an entirely unreasonable one.

Lacking verifiable evidence did not prevent Bachi from stating the obvious concerning internal migration within Palestine:

*The great economic development of the coastal plains—largely due to Jewish immigration—was accompanied both in 1922-1931 and in 1931-1944 by a much stronger increase of the Muslim and Christian populations in this region than that registered in other regions. This was probably due to two reasons: stronger decrease in mortality of the non-Jewish population in the neighborhood of Jewish areas and Internal migration toward the more developed zones.[22]*[/B]


In the footnote accompanying this quote, Bachi writes: "As no statistics are available for internal migration, this conclusion has been obtained from indirect evidence."[23] Bachi's footnote is instructive. The "indirect evidence" he referred to no doubt included his understanding of the important role economics plays in explaining demographic movements. While appreciating the value of Ottoman registrations and British mandatory government censuses in providing estimates of Palestinian demography, they were, in his judgment, still crude and incomplete.

Reference to Arab immigration into Palestine during the 1920s is made as well in the British mandatory government's annual compilation of statistical data on population. The _Palestine Blue Book, 1937_, for example, provides time series demographic statistics whose annual estimates are based on extrapolations from its 1922 census.[24] The footnote accompanying the table on population of Palestine reads:[/B]

*There has been unrecorded illegal immigration of both Jews and Arabs in the period since the census of 1931, but it is clear that, since it cannot be recorded, no estimate of its volume is possible.[25]
The 1935 British report to the League of Nations noted that:*

*One thousand five hundred and fifty-seven persons (including 565 Jews) who, having made their way into the country surreptitiously, were later detected, were sentenced to imprisonment for their offence and recommended for deportation.[26]
The number who "made their way into the country surreptitiously" and undetected was neither estimated nor mentioned.

Historian Gad Gilbar's observation on Ruth Kark's contribution to his edited volume Ottoman Palestine, 1800-1914, touches on the issue of Arab immigration into and within Palestine. He relates her ideas in "The Rise and Decline of Coastal Towns in Palestine" to Charles Issawi's thesis concerning the role of minority groups and foreigners in the development of Middle Eastern towns. Explaining why NO other Palestinian cities grew as rapidly as Jaffa and Haifa did during the final three decades of the Ottoman rule, Gilbar writes: "Both attracted population from the rural and urban surroundings and immigrants from outside Palestine."[27]

Each piece of the demographic puzzle by itself may reveal no identifiable picture. But given a multiplicity of such pieces, an image does begin to appear. The Royal Institute for International Affairs adds another piece. Commenting on the growth of the Palestinian population during the decades of the 1920s and 1930s it reports: "The number of Arabs who have entered Palestine illegally from Syria and Transjordan is unknown. But probably considerable."[28] And C.S. Jarvis, governor of the Sinai from 1923-36, adds yet another:*

*This illegal immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Trans-Jordan and Syria, and it is very difficult to make a case out for the misery of the Arabs if at the same time their compatriots from adjoining states could not be kept from going in to share that misery.[29]
Estimating Real Numbers
The derivation of Palestine migration estimates in this section is based on an uncomplicated imputation theory. Migration becomes a residual claimant for numbers not explained by a population-estimating model based on known initial population stocks and known sets of birth and death rates for that population. In this way, expected population stocks can be derived for any set of subsequent years.

The value of the model depends, of course, on the reliability of the estimates given for initial population stocks and for the rates associated with natural increase. Therein lies the problem with estimating Arab immigration into Palestine. The model itself may be simple and applicable, but its usefulness—as with all estimating models—is contingent upon the quality of the data inputs. That quality in the case of Palestinian migration is compromised by the explicit neglect of illegal entrants. If illegal migrants and subsequently illegal residents escaped the census taker, how could the census account for them? It couldn't and didn't.

It is not surprising then that the British census data produce an Arab Palestinian population growth for 1922-31 that turns out to be generated by natural increase and legal migrations alone. Applying a 2.5 per annum growth rate[30] to a population stock of 589,177 for 1922 generates a 1931 population estimate of 735,799 or 97.6% of the 753,822 recorded in the 1931 census. Does the imputation model then "prove" that illegal immigration into Palestine was inconsequential during 1922-31? Not at all. A footnote accompanying the census's population time series acknowledges the presence in Palestine of illegal Arab immigration. But because it could not be recorded, no estimate of its numbers was included in the census count.[31] Ignoring illegal migrants does not mean they don't exist.

Setting illegal immigration into Palestine aside, the imputation model does generate substantial migrations of Arab Palestinians within Palestine itself and confirms what many demographers, historians, government administrators, and economists have alluded to: the migration of Arab Palestinians from villages, towns, and cities of low economic opportunity to villages, towns, and cities of higher economic opportunity.

Which towns, villages, and cities offered the higher economic opportunity? Analyzing the 1922 and 1931 demographic data by sub-district and separating those sub-districts of Palestine that eventually became 1948 Israel—that is, sub-districts that had relatively large Jewish populations (with accompanying Jewish capital and modern technology)—from those that were not designated as part of 1948 Israel, identified not only the direction of Arab Palestinian migration within Palestine but its magnitude as well.[32]

The Arab Palestinian populations within those sub-districts that eventually became Israel increased from 321,866 in 1922 to 463,288 in 1931 or by 141,422. Applying the 2.5 per annum natural rate of population growth to the 1922 Arab Palestinian population generates an expected population size for 1931 of 398,498 or 64,790 less than the actual population recorded in the British census. By imputation, this unaccounted population increase must have been either illegal immigration not accounted for in the British census and/or registered Arab Palestinians moving from outside the Jewish-identified sub-districts to those sub-districts so identified.This 1922-31 Arab migration into the Jewish sub-districts represented 11.8% of the total 1931 Arab population residing in those sub-districts and as much as 36.8% of its 1922-31 growth.

That over 10% of the 1931 Arab Palestinian population in those sub-districts that eventually became Israel had immigrated to those sub-districts within the 1922-31years is a datum of considerable significance. It is consistent with the fragmentary evidence of illegal migration to and within Palestine; it supports the idea of linkage between economic disparities and migratory impulses—a linkage universally accepted; it undercuts the thesis of "spatial stickiness" attributed by some scholars to the Arab Palestinian population of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries; and it provides strong circumstantial evidence that the illegal Arab immigration into Palestine, like that within Palestine, was of consequence as well.

Denying the Evidence
As compelling as the arguments and evidence supporting consequential illegal immigration may be to some scholars, they are clearly unconvincing to others. The single most cited contemporary publication on Palestinian demography is Justin McCarthy's 1990 The Population of Palestine. Of McCarthy's 43 pages of descriptive analysis—supplemented by 188 pages of demographic tables copied directly from Ottoman, European, and Jewish source materials—slightly more than one and a half pages are devoted to Arab immigration into and within Palestine during the Ottoman period, and a similar one and a half pages are devoted to Arab immigration during the succeeding mandate period.[33] According to McCarthy, these few pages offer enough critical analysis to close the lid on the "infamous" immigration thesis.

Consider first McCarthy's analysis of Arab immigration during the Ottoman period. That he finds no illegal immigration of consequence is not surprising because McCarthy uses official Ottoman registration lists that, by the nature of its classifications, take no account of the unreported, illegal immigration. That is to say, if you look in a haystack for a needle that wasn't put there, the probability is high you won't find it. It is strange that that idea had not occurred to McCarthy. Choosing to focus on the official registration lists allows him to write:*

*From the analysis of rates of increase of the Muslim population of the three Palestiniansanjaks [Ottoman sub-provinces], one can say with certainty that Muslim immigration after 1870 was small.[34]
Reflecting elsewhere on the possibility that the immigration may have occurred over an extended period of time, McCarthy writes: "To postulate such an immigration … stretches the limits of credulity."[35]

McCarthy's treatment of the linkage between economic disparities and migration impulses appears to be even more disingenuous. He writes: "The question of the relative economic development of Palestine in Ottoman times is not a matter to be discussed here."[36] Nor is it considered anywhere else in his book. That is to say, McCarthy does not contest the linkage so much as ignore its relevance to the Palestinian situation.[37]

His dismissal of Arab immigration into Palestine during the mandate period is based on a set of assumptions concerning illegal immigration that is both restrictive and unsubstantiated. He contends that even if the illegal immigrants were unreported on entry, their deaths in Palestine would have been registered. So too, he argues, would their children born in Palestine. Deriving estimates based on such registrations, he arrives at this conclusion: immigration was minimal.[38] But he provides no evidence to show that these supposed registrations of births and deaths were actually made. Had McCarthy considered the fact that detection of illegal immigration during the mandate period resulted in imprisonment and deportation and that immigrants, aware of this, may have avoided any formal registration of deaths and births, he would have had to revise his assessment of illegal immigration.

Perhaps the more serious charge against McCarthy's analysis of Arab immigration is his use of Roberto Bachi's estimates. McCarthy's numbers are based, in part, on Bachi's reporting of 900 illegal Arab immigrants per year over the period 1931-45.[39] But McCarthy misrepresents what Bachi's estimate is meant to show. Bachi is careful to identify his 900-per-year illegal Arab immigration estimate as only those discovered by the mandatory authorities. Illegal Arab immigration that went undetected and unreported is not included. He writes:*

*A detailed analysis presented in Appendix 6.5B on the basis of the registration of part of the illegal migratory traffic, discovered by the Palestine police, shows that legal movements (as reflected in Tables 9.4-9.7) constituted only a small fraction of total Muslim immigration.[40]
To emphasize this point, Bachi writes: "It is hardly credible that illegal movements which were actually discovered included all the illegal entrances which actually occurred, or even the majority of them."[41] As a result, Bachi can only conclude that "in the present state of knowledge, we have beenunable to even guess the size of total immigration."[42]

Such a cautionary comment finds no place in McCarthy's analysis or conclusions. Using Bachi's estimates inappropriately, deriving estimates based solely on registration lists, and ignoring completely the linkages between regional economic disparities and migratory impulses, McCarthy confidently concludes,*

*the vast majority of the Palestinians resident in 1947 were the sons and daughters who were living in Palestine before modern Jewish immigration began. There is no reason to believe that they were not the sons and daughters of Arabs who had been in Palestine for many centuries.[43]
Every Reason to Believe
Therein lies the ideological warfare concerning claims to territorial inheritance and national sovereignty. Contrary to McCarthy's findings or wishes, there is every reason to believe that consequential immigration of Arabs into and within Palestine occurred during the Ottoman and British mandatory periods. Among the most compelling arguments in support of such immigration is the universally acknowledged and practiced linkage between regional economic disparities and migratory impulses.

The precise magnitude of Arab immigration into and within Palestine is, as Bachi noted, unknown. Lack of completeness in Ottoman registration lists and British Mandatory censuses, and the immeasurable illegal, unreported, and undetected immigration during both periods make any estimate a bold venture into creative analysis. In most cases, those venturing into the realm of Palestinian demography—or other demographic analyses based on very crude data—acknowledge its limitations and the tentativeness of the conclusions that may be drawn.

Fred M. Gottheil is a professor in the department of economics, University of Illinois.*


----------



## abu afak

Forgot Link:
It's easy to look up but highly useful for 'us' and for first part of article.
The Smoking Gun: Arab Immigration into Palestine, 1922-1931
All most cite are the Turkish-paid and Bogus Justin McCarthy assumptions.

and sorry about the bolding of the whole post.
Unfortunately once bolded, it cannot be edited back to standard fonts. A quirk on this board.
`


----------



## American_Jihad

*"I Am Your Protector": The Anti-Israel Group Hijacking the Holocaust for Islam*
February 3, 2016
Daniel Greenfield






There has been a troubling pattern of Muslims and their political allies hijacking the Holocaust to promote their own agenda. This extends to wearing yellow stars (it was Muslims who forced Jews to wear yellow to begin with) to hijacking Jewish holidays and commemorations, such as the commemoration of the Holocaust with claims of Muslim victimhood.

One of the latest such efforts is I Am Your Protector or in hashtag form #IAmYourProtector. The group promotes the claim that Muslims saved Jews during the Holocaust and Jews are obligated to endanger themselves by taking in large numbers of anti-Semitic Muslim migrants, with deadly results.

The website of I Am Your Protector lists no actual leadership. However its creator is identified in some stories as Dani Laurence. Laurence, who used to be known as Andrea Varadi, claimed to have founded the Global Forum for Counter Radicalization. The GFCR's website however seems to contain nothing except a donation page with bank accounts in New York and Geneva. She's on the board of the Sisterhood of Shalom Salaam. Her bio claims that she is the head of the Project Department and incubator of the Muslim Jewish Conference, "a Fellow of the Arianne de Rotchild Fellowship, Cambridge, Muslim Jewish Social entrepreneurs and created a social media Platform spreading constructive messages about Muslims and Jews that has around 100’000 followers."

Who is Andrea Varadi/Dani Laurence? She claims to be a political refugee from Hungary who was born in Switzerland, and lived in a whole bunch of other places. A story about her claims that...

Varadi, a young woman from central Europe (Switzerland, if I remember correctly), talked about her experience when first coming to Israel. Having been raised by religiously orthodox parents, she came expecting every Arab to be potential terrorists, murderers, et al. For the longest time, she lived in a multi-cultural city with this opinion of those who surrounded her. And yet, instead of continuing to live as she was, she decided to do something that I admire. To get over this fear of hers, she began learning Arabic, began reading more about the conflict, and speaking to more Arabs.

She has now created a group called Global Forum for Counter Radicalization. This is honestly the part of the night that interested the most people. The group works with many ex-radicalized personas that have worked with the likes of al Qaeda, neo-Nazi groups, Hamas, and other extremist, often times considered “terrorist” groups. By meeting and working with former members of such groups, Varadi hopes cease any misconceptions that the general population has of certain groups or religions, such as Islam, and to instigate dialogue that would change the preconception with which people view certain conflicts.

So Varadi works with ex-terrorists to improve people's misconceptions about Islam. The best part of this is how Al Qaeda and Hamas are described as being "considered" terrorist groups. With the terrorist part in quotation marks. And of course there's the "preconception with which people view certain conflicts". Like the Islamic terror war against the Jews.

The Global Forum for Counter Radicalization appears to be a website with a donation request, but the Muslim Jewish Conference, a European organization which operates out of Austria, is all too real, but it's yet another shadow on a mirror in the hall of mirrors that is the NGO Deep State.

NGOs often operate like shell corporations. You have to spend a lot of time figuring out who is behind the whole thing. It's telling that I Am Your Protector does not explicitly identify its links to the Muslim Jewish Conference. It doesn't even list its leadership. And it takes a lot of extra steps to connect Dani Laurence of I Am Your Protector to Andrea Varadi of the Muslim Jewish Conference.

The origins of I Am Your Protector appear to have been with an Andrea Varadi short film for the Muslim Jewish Conference titled, "Muslim & Jews: Saviors in the Darkest Moments of History". And what is the Muslim Jewish Conference?

Under its facade, the Muslim Jewish Conference is funded by the Karl Kahane Foundation, a close friend of Bruno Kreisky. Anyone familiar with Austrian politics will be getting nauseous around this point.

Bruno Kreisky was a horrifying monster. A George Soros on steroids, he violently hated Jews, despite being of Jewish origin. As the Socialist Chancellor of Austria, he filled his cabinet with former Nazis and collaborated with the PLO.

Kreisky declared that, "If the Jews are a people, they are a wretched people". He waged an unrelenting campaign against Jewish Nazi hunter Simon Wisenthal. And he helped Muslim terrorists kill Jews.


...

Turkey's Erdogan, a key Alliance figure and backer of Hamas, believes Islamophobia should be a crime. His regime has also been linked to assorted other Islamic terror groups. It's also been at best complicit in genocide.

When we peel back the elaborate network, behind the latest bid to hijack the Holocaust stands a memorial to a Nazi collaborator and a state sponsor of terror. This is what the various Islamic attempts to hijack the Holocaust for propaganda ultimately come down to... Muslim victimhood is always yet another argument for the murder of Jews.

"I Am Your Protector": The Anti-Israel Group Hijacking the Holocaust for Islam


----------



## montelatici

abu afak said:


> *The Smoking Gun: Arab Immigration into Palestine, 1922-1931
> by Fred M. Gottheil
> Middle East Quarterly
> Winter 2003, pp. 53-64*
> 
> *['........]
> Evidence for Arab Migration*
> There are several problems associated with estimating Arab immigration into Palestine during the 1920s, the principal one being that *Arab migration flows were, in the main, illegal, and therefore unreported and unrecorded.[17] But they were not entirely unnoticed.*
> 
> Demographer U.O. Schmelz's analysis of the Ottoman registration data for 1905 populations of Jerusalem and Hebron _kaza_s (Ottoman districts), by place of birth, showed that of those* Arab Palestinians born outside their localities of residence, approximately HALF represented intra-Palestine movement—from areas of low-level economic activity to areas of higher-level activity—while the other half represented Arab immigration into Palestine itself, 43% originating in Asia, 39% in Africa, and 20% in Turkey.*[18] Schmelz conjectured:
> 
> The above-average population growth of the Arab villages around the city of Jerusalem, with its Jewish majority, continued until the end of the mandatory period. This must have been due—as elsewhere in Palestine under similar conditions—to in-migrants attracted by economic opportunities, and to the beneficial effects of improved health services in reducing mortality—_just as happened in other parts of Palestine around cities with a large Jewish population sector_.[19]
> 
> While Schmelz restricted his research of the 1905 Palestinian census to the official Ottoman registrations and used these registrations with only minor critical comment, he did acknowledge that "stable population models assume the absence of external migrations, _a condition which was obviously not met by all the subpopulations_" that Schmelz enumerated.[20]
> 
> Like U.O. Schmelz, Roberto Bachi expressed some reservation about the virtual non-existence of data and discussion concerning migration into and within Palestine. He writes:
> 
> Between 1800 and 1914, the Muslim population had a yearly average increase in the order of magnitude of roughly 6-7 per thousand. This can be compared to the very crude estimate of about 4 per thousand for the "less developed countries" of the world (in Asia, Africa, and Latin America) between 1800 and 1910. _It is possible that part of the growth of the Muslim population was due to Immigration_.[21]
> 
> Although Bachi did not pursue the linkage between undocumented immigration into Palestine and the 6 (or 7) to 4 per thousand differential in growth rates between Palestine and the other less developed countries (LDCs), the idea that at least one-third of Palestine's population growth may be attributed to immigration is—using Bachi's own growth rate differentials—not an entirely unreasonable one.
> 
> Lacking verifiable evidence did not prevent Bachi from stating the obvious concerning internal migration within Palestine:
> 
> *The great economic development of the coastal plains—largely due to Jewish immigration—was accompanied both in 1922-1931 and in 1931-1944 by a much stronger increase of the Muslim and Christian populations in this region than that registered in other regions. This was probably due to two reasons: stronger decrease in mortality of the non-Jewish population in the neighborhood of Jewish areas and Internal migration toward the more developed zones.[22]*[/B]
> 
> 
> In the footnote accompanying this quote, Bachi writes: "As no statistics are available for internal migration, this conclusion has been obtained from indirect evidence."[23] Bachi's footnote is instructive. The "indirect evidence" he referred to no doubt included his understanding of the important role economics plays in explaining demographic movements. While appreciating the value of Ottoman registrations and British mandatory government censuses in providing estimates of Palestinian demography, they were, in his judgment, still crude and incomplete.
> 
> Reference to Arab immigration into Palestine during the 1920s is made as well in the British mandatory government's annual compilation of statistical data on population. The _Palestine Blue Book, 1937_, for example, provides time series demographic statistics whose annual estimates are based on extrapolations from its 1922 census.[24] The footnote accompanying the table on population of Palestine reads:[/B]
> 
> *There has been unrecorded illegal immigration of both Jews and Arabs in the period since the census of 1931, but it is clear that, since it cannot be recorded, no estimate of its volume is possible.[25]
> The 1935 British report to the League of Nations noted that:*
> 
> *One thousand five hundred and fifty-seven persons (including 565 Jews) who, having made their way into the country surreptitiously, were later detected, were sentenced to imprisonment for their offence and recommended for deportation.[26]
> The number who "made their way into the country surreptitiously" and undetected was neither estimated nor mentioned.
> 
> Historian Gad Gilbar's observation on Ruth Kark's contribution to his edited volume Ottoman Palestine, 1800-1914, touches on the issue of Arab immigration into and within Palestine. He relates her ideas in "The Rise and Decline of Coastal Towns in Palestine" to Charles Issawi's thesis concerning the role of minority groups and foreigners in the development of Middle Eastern towns. Explaining why NO other Palestinian cities grew as rapidly as Jaffa and Haifa did during the final three decades of the Ottoman rule, Gilbar writes: "Both attracted population from the rural and urban surroundings and immigrants from outside Palestine."[27]
> 
> Each piece of the demographic puzzle by itself may reveal no identifiable picture. But given a multiplicity of such pieces, an image does begin to appear. The Royal Institute for International Affairs adds another piece. Commenting on the growth of the Palestinian population during the decades of the 1920s and 1930s it reports: "The number of Arabs who have entered Palestine illegally from Syria and Transjordan is unknown. But probably considerable."[28] And C.S. Jarvis, governor of the Sinai from 1923-36, adds yet another:*
> 
> *This illegal immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Trans-Jordan and Syria, and it is very difficult to make a case out for the misery of the Arabs if at the same time their compatriots from adjoining states could not be kept from going in to share that misery.[29]
> Estimating Real Numbers
> The derivation of Palestine migration estimates in this section is based on an uncomplicated imputation theory. Migration becomes a residual claimant for numbers not explained by a population-estimating model based on known initial population stocks and known sets of birth and death rates for that population. In this way, expected population stocks can be derived for any set of subsequent years.
> 
> The value of the model depends, of course, on the reliability of the estimates given for initial population stocks and for the rates associated with natural increase. Therein lies the problem with estimating Arab immigration into Palestine. The model itself may be simple and applicable, but its usefulness—as with all estimating models—is contingent upon the quality of the data inputs. That quality in the case of Palestinian migration is compromised by the explicit neglect of illegal entrants. If illegal migrants and subsequently illegal residents escaped the census taker, how could the census account for them? It couldn't and didn't.
> 
> It is not surprising then that the British census data produce an Arab Palestinian population growth for 1922-31 that turns out to be generated by natural increase and legal migrations alone. Applying a 2.5 per annum growth rate[30] to a population stock of 589,177 for 1922 generates a 1931 population estimate of 735,799 or 97.6% of the 753,822 recorded in the 1931 census. Does the imputation model then "prove" that illegal immigration into Palestine was inconsequential during 1922-31? Not at all. A footnote accompanying the census's population time series acknowledges the presence in Palestine of illegal Arab immigration. But because it could not be recorded, no estimate of its numbers was included in the census count.[31] Ignoring illegal migrants does not mean they don't exist.
> 
> Setting illegal immigration into Palestine aside, the imputation model does generate substantial migrations of Arab Palestinians within Palestine itself and confirms what many demographers, historians, government administrators, and economists have alluded to: the migration of Arab Palestinians from villages, towns, and cities of low economic opportunity to villages, towns, and cities of higher economic opportunity.
> 
> Which towns, villages, and cities offered the higher economic opportunity? Analyzing the 1922 and 1931 demographic data by sub-district and separating those sub-districts of Palestine that eventually became 1948 Israel—that is, sub-districts that had relatively large Jewish populations (with accompanying Jewish capital and modern technology)—from those that were not designated as part of 1948 Israel, identified not only the direction of Arab Palestinian migration within Palestine but its magnitude as well.[32]
> 
> The Arab Palestinian populations within those sub-districts that eventually became Israel increased from 321,866 in 1922 to 463,288 in 1931 or by 141,422. Applying the 2.5 per annum natural rate of population growth to the 1922 Arab Palestinian population generates an expected population size for 1931 of 398,498 or 64,790 less than the actual population recorded in the British census. By imputation, this unaccounted population increase must have been either illegal immigration not accounted for in the British census and/or registered Arab Palestinians moving from outside the Jewish-identified sub-districts to those sub-districts so identified.This 1922-31 Arab migration into the Jewish sub-districts represented 11.8% of the total 1931 Arab population residing in those sub-districts and as much as 36.8% of its 1922-31 growth.
> 
> That over 10% of the 1931 Arab Palestinian population in those sub-districts that eventually became Israel had immigrated to those sub-districts within the 1922-31years is a datum of considerable significance. It is consistent with the fragmentary evidence of illegal migration to and within Palestine; it supports the idea of linkage between economic disparities and migratory impulses—a linkage universally accepted; it undercuts the thesis of "spatial stickiness" attributed by some scholars to the Arab Palestinian population of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries; and it provides strong circumstantial evidence that the illegal Arab immigration into Palestine, like that within Palestine, was of consequence as well.
> 
> Denying the Evidence
> As compelling as the arguments and evidence supporting consequential illegal immigration may be to some scholars, they are clearly unconvincing to others. The single most cited contemporary publication on Palestinian demography is Justin McCarthy's 1990 The Population of Palestine. Of McCarthy's 43 pages of descriptive analysis—supplemented by 188 pages of demographic tables copied directly from Ottoman, European, and Jewish source materials—slightly more than one and a half pages are devoted to Arab immigration into and within Palestine during the Ottoman period, and a similar one and a half pages are devoted to Arab immigration during the succeeding mandate period.[33] According to McCarthy, these few pages offer enough critical analysis to close the lid on the "infamous" immigration thesis.
> 
> Consider first McCarthy's analysis of Arab immigration during the Ottoman period. That he finds no illegal immigration of consequence is not surprising because McCarthy uses official Ottoman registration lists that, by the nature of its classifications, take no account of the unreported, illegal immigration. That is to say, if you look in a haystack for a needle that wasn't put there, the probability is high you won't find it. It is strange that that idea had not occurred to McCarthy. Choosing to focus on the official registration lists allows him to write:*
> 
> *From the analysis of rates of increase of the Muslim population of the three Palestiniansanjaks [Ottoman sub-provinces], one can say with certainty that Muslim immigration after 1870 was small.[34]
> Reflecting elsewhere on the possibility that the immigration may have occurred over an extended period of time, McCarthy writes: "To postulate such an immigration … stretches the limits of credulity."[35]
> 
> McCarthy's treatment of the linkage between economic disparities and migration impulses appears to be even more disingenuous. He writes: "The question of the relative economic development of Palestine in Ottoman times is not a matter to be discussed here."[36] Nor is it considered anywhere else in his book. That is to say, McCarthy does not contest the linkage so much as ignore its relevance to the Palestinian situation.[37]
> 
> His dismissal of Arab immigration into Palestine during the mandate period is based on a set of assumptions concerning illegal immigration that is both restrictive and unsubstantiated. He contends that even if the illegal immigrants were unreported on entry, their deaths in Palestine would have been registered. So too, he argues, would their children born in Palestine. Deriving estimates based on such registrations, he arrives at this conclusion: immigration was minimal.[38] But he provides no evidence to show that these supposed registrations of births and deaths were actually made. Had McCarthy considered the fact that detection of illegal immigration during the mandate period resulted in imprisonment and deportation and that immigrants, aware of this, may have avoided any formal registration of deaths and births, he would have had to revise his assessment of illegal immigration.
> 
> Perhaps the more serious charge against McCarthy's analysis of Arab immigration is his use of Roberto Bachi's estimates. McCarthy's numbers are based, in part, on Bachi's reporting of 900 illegal Arab immigrants per year over the period 1931-45.[39] But McCarthy misrepresents what Bachi's estimate is meant to show. Bachi is careful to identify his 900-per-year illegal Arab immigration estimate as only those discovered by the mandatory authorities. Illegal Arab immigration that went undetected and unreported is not included. He writes:*
> 
> *A detailed analysis presented in Appendix 6.5B on the basis of the registration of part of the illegal migratory traffic, discovered by the Palestine police, shows that legal movements (as reflected in Tables 9.4-9.7) constituted only a small fraction of total Muslim immigration.[40]
> To emphasize this point, Bachi writes: "It is hardly credible that illegal movements which were actually discovered included all the illegal entrances which actually occurred, or even the majority of them."[41] As a result, Bachi can only conclude that "in the present state of knowledge, we have beenunable to even guess the size of total immigration."[42]
> 
> Such a cautionary comment finds no place in McCarthy's analysis or conclusions. Using Bachi's estimates inappropriately, deriving estimates based solely on registration lists, and ignoring completely the linkages between regional economic disparities and migratory impulses, McCarthy confidently concludes,*
> 
> *the vast majority of the Palestinians resident in 1947 were the sons and daughters who were living in Palestine before modern Jewish immigration began. There is no reason to believe that they were not the sons and daughters of Arabs who had been in Palestine for many centuries.[43]
> Every Reason to Believe
> Therein lies the ideological warfare concerning claims to territorial inheritance and national sovereignty. Contrary to McCarthy's findings or wishes, there is every reason to believe that consequential immigration of Arabs into and within Palestine occurred during the Ottoman and British mandatory periods. Among the most compelling arguments in support of such immigration is the universally acknowledged and practiced linkage between regional economic disparities and migratory impulses.
> 
> The precise magnitude of Arab immigration into and within Palestine is, as Bachi noted, unknown. Lack of completeness in Ottoman registration lists and British Mandatory censuses, and the immeasurable illegal, unreported, and undetected immigration during both periods make any estimate a bold venture into creative analysis. In most cases, those venturing into the realm of Palestinian demography—or other demographic analyses based on very crude data—acknowledge its limitations and the tentativeness of the conclusions that may be drawn.
> 
> Fred M. Gottheil is a professor in the department of economics, University of Illinois.*




Posting Zionist propaganda does not change the facts. Let's look at the facts as set forth in the Survey of Palestine Vol. 1, page 212.





 

Now this is from a professional Anglo-American survey group that took all data into consideration.  Not some Zionist propagandist.  Interestingly, the survey indicates that there was, on the other hand, substantial illegal Jewish immigration from Europe.  The 3 volumes of the survey are available on-line at the Berman Jewish Policy Archive at NYU/Wagner. 

The old Zionist propaganda has ceased to be effective since official archives have been made available online. At least for people with half a brain that can do research and is willing to discover the truth using independent source documentation.


 Here is the link to volume 1.


A Survey of Palestine Volume 1  | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ NYU Wagner


----------



## abu afak

montelatici said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Smoking Gun: Arab Immigration into Palestine, 1922-1931
> by Fred M. Gottheil
> Middle East Quarterly
> Winter 2003, pp. 53-64*
> 
> *['........]
> Evidence for Arab Migration*
> There are several problems associated with estimating Arab immigration into Palestine during the 1920s, the principal one being that *Arab migration flows were, in the main, illegal, and therefore unreported and unrecorded.[17] But they were not entirely unnoticed.*
> 
> Demographer U.O. Schmelz's analysis of the Ottoman registration data for 1905 populations of Jerusalem and Hebron _kaza_s (Ottoman districts), by place of birth, showed that of those* Arab Palestinians born outside their localities of residence, approximately HALF represented intra-Palestine movement—from areas of low-level economic activity to areas of higher-level activity—while the other half represented Arab immigration into Palestine itself, 43% originating in Asia, 39% in Africa, and 20% in Turkey.*[18] Schmelz conjectured:
> 
> The above-average population growth of the Arab villages around the city of Jerusalem, with its Jewish majority, continued until the end of the mandatory period. This must have been due—as elsewhere in Palestine under similar conditions—to in-migrants attracted by economic opportunities, and to the beneficial effects of improved health services in reducing mortality—_just as happened in other parts of Palestine around cities with a large Jewish population sector_.[19]
> 
> While Schmelz restricted his research of the 1905 Palestinian census to the official Ottoman registrations and used these registrations with only minor critical comment, he did acknowledge that "stable population models assume the absence of external migrations, _a condition which was obviously not met by all the subpopulations_" that Schmelz enumerated.[20]
> 
> Like U.O. Schmelz, Roberto Bachi expressed some reservation about the virtual non-existence of data and discussion concerning migration into and within Palestine. He writes:
> 
> Between 1800 and 1914, the Muslim population had a yearly average increase in the order of magnitude of roughly 6-7 per thousand. This can be compared to the very crude estimate of about 4 per thousand for the "less developed countries" of the world (in Asia, Africa, and Latin America) between 1800 and 1910. _It is possible that part of the growth of the Muslim population was due to Immigration_.[21]
> 
> Although Bachi did not pursue the linkage between undocumented immigration into Palestine and the 6 (or 7) to 4 per thousand differential in growth rates between Palestine and the other less developed countries (LDCs), the idea that at least one-third of Palestine's population growth may be attributed to immigration is—using Bachi's own growth rate differentials—not an entirely unreasonable one.
> 
> Lacking verifiable evidence did not prevent Bachi from stating the obvious concerning internal migration within Palestine:
> 
> *The great economic development of the coastal plains—largely due to Jewish immigration—was accompanied both in 1922-1931 and in 1931-1944 by a much stronger increase of the Muslim and Christian populations in this region than that registered in other regions. This was probably due to two reasons: stronger decrease in mortality of the non-Jewish population in the neighborhood of Jewish areas and Internal migration toward the more developed zones.[22]*[/B]
> 
> 
> In the footnote accompanying this quote, Bachi writes: "As no statistics are available for internal migration, this conclusion has been obtained from indirect evidence."[23] Bachi's footnote is instructive. The "indirect evidence" he referred to no doubt included his understanding of the important role economics plays in explaining demographic movements. While appreciating the value of Ottoman registrations and British mandatory government censuses in providing estimates of Palestinian demography, they were, in his judgment, still crude and incomplete.
> 
> Reference to Arab immigration into Palestine during the 1920s is made as well in the British mandatory government's annual compilation of statistical data on population. The _Palestine Blue Book, 1937_, for example, provides time series demographic statistics whose annual estimates are based on extrapolations from its 1922 census.[24] The footnote accompanying the table on population of Palestine reads:[/B]
> 
> *There has been unrecorded illegal immigration of both Jews and Arabs in the period since the census of 1931, but it is clear that, since it cannot be recorded, no estimate of its volume is possible.[25]
> The 1935 British report to the League of Nations noted that:*
> 
> *One thousand five hundred and fifty-seven persons (including 565 Jews) who, having made their way into the country surreptitiously, were later detected, were sentenced to imprisonment for their offence and recommended for deportation.[26]
> The number who "made their way into the country surreptitiously" and undetected was neither estimated nor mentioned.
> 
> Historian Gad Gilbar's observation on Ruth Kark's contribution to his edited volume Ottoman Palestine, 1800-1914, touches on the issue of Arab immigration into and within Palestine. He relates her ideas in "The Rise and Decline of Coastal Towns in Palestine" to Charles Issawi's thesis concerning the role of minority groups and foreigners in the development of Middle Eastern towns. Explaining why NO other Palestinian cities grew as rapidly as Jaffa and Haifa did during the final three decades of the Ottoman rule, Gilbar writes: "Both attracted population from the rural and urban surroundings and immigrants from outside Palestine."[27]
> 
> Each piece of the demographic puzzle by itself may reveal no identifiable picture. But given a multiplicity of such pieces, an image does begin to appear. The Royal Institute for International Affairs adds another piece. Commenting on the growth of the Palestinian population during the decades of the 1920s and 1930s it reports: "The number of Arabs who have entered Palestine illegally from Syria and Transjordan is unknown. But probably considerable."[28] And C.S. Jarvis, governor of the Sinai from 1923-36, adds yet another:*
> 
> *This illegal immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Trans-Jordan and Syria, and it is very difficult to make a case out for the misery of the Arabs if at the same time their compatriots from adjoining states could not be kept from going in to share that misery.[29]
> Estimating Real Numbers
> The derivation of Palestine migration estimates in this section is based on an uncomplicated imputation theory. Migration becomes a residual claimant for numbers not explained by a population-estimating model based on known initial population stocks and known sets of birth and death rates for that population. In this way, expected population stocks can be derived for any set of subsequent years.
> 
> The value of the model depends, of course, on the reliability of the estimates given for initial population stocks and for the rates associated with natural increase. Therein lies the problem with estimating Arab immigration into Palestine. The model itself may be simple and applicable, but its usefulness—as with all estimating models—is contingent upon the quality of the data inputs. That quality in the case of Palestinian migration is compromised by the explicit neglect of illegal entrants. If illegal migrants and subsequently illegal residents escaped the census taker, how could the census account for them? It couldn't and didn't.
> 
> It is not surprising then that the British census data produce an Arab Palestinian population growth for 1922-31 that turns out to be generated by natural increase and legal migrations alone. Applying a 2.5 per annum growth rate[30] to a population stock of 589,177 for 1922 generates a 1931 population estimate of 735,799 or 97.6% of the 753,822 recorded in the 1931 census. Does the imputation model then "prove" that illegal immigration into Palestine was inconsequential during 1922-31? Not at all. A footnote accompanying the census's population time series acknowledges the presence in Palestine of illegal Arab immigration. But because it could not be recorded, no estimate of its numbers was included in the census count.[31] Ignoring illegal migrants does not mean they don't exist.
> 
> Setting illegal immigration into Palestine aside, the imputation model does generate substantial migrations of Arab Palestinians within Palestine itself and confirms what many demographers, historians, government administrators, and economists have alluded to: the migration of Arab Palestinians from villages, towns, and cities of low economic opportunity to villages, towns, and cities of higher economic opportunity.
> 
> Which towns, villages, and cities offered the higher economic opportunity? Analyzing the 1922 and 1931 demographic data by sub-district and separating those sub-districts of Palestine that eventually became 1948 Israel—that is, sub-districts that had relatively large Jewish populations (with accompanying Jewish capital and modern technology)—from those that were not designated as part of 1948 Israel, identified not only the direction of Arab Palestinian migration within Palestine but its magnitude as well.[32]
> 
> The Arab Palestinian populations within those sub-districts that eventually became Israel increased from 321,866 in 1922 to 463,288 in 1931 or by 141,422. Applying the 2.5 per annum natural rate of population growth to the 1922 Arab Palestinian population generates an expected population size for 1931 of 398,498 or 64,790 less than the actual population recorded in the British census. By imputation, this unaccounted population increase must have been either illegal immigration not accounted for in the British census and/or registered Arab Palestinians moving from outside the Jewish-identified sub-districts to those sub-districts so identified.This 1922-31 Arab migration into the Jewish sub-districts represented 11.8% of the total 1931 Arab population residing in those sub-districts and as much as 36.8% of its 1922-31 growth.
> 
> That over 10% of the 1931 Arab Palestinian population in those sub-districts that eventually became Israel had immigrated to those sub-districts within the 1922-31years is a datum of considerable significance. It is consistent with the fragmentary evidence of illegal migration to and within Palestine; it supports the idea of linkage between economic disparities and migratory impulses—a linkage universally accepted; it undercuts the thesis of "spatial stickiness" attributed by some scholars to the Arab Palestinian population of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries; and it provides strong circumstantial evidence that the illegal Arab immigration into Palestine, like that within Palestine, was of consequence as well.
> 
> Denying the Evidence
> As compelling as the arguments and evidence supporting consequential illegal immigration may be to some scholars, they are clearly unconvincing to others. The single most cited contemporary publication on Palestinian demography is Justin McCarthy's 1990 The Population of Palestine. Of McCarthy's 43 pages of descriptive analysis—supplemented by 188 pages of demographic tables copied directly from Ottoman, European, and Jewish source materials—slightly more than one and a half pages are devoted to Arab immigration into and within Palestine during the Ottoman period, and a similar one and a half pages are devoted to Arab immigration during the succeeding mandate period.[33] According to McCarthy, these few pages offer enough critical analysis to close the lid on the "infamous" immigration thesis.
> 
> Consider first McCarthy's analysis of Arab immigration during the Ottoman period. That he finds no illegal immigration of consequence is not surprising because McCarthy uses official Ottoman registration lists that, by the nature of its classifications, take no account of the unreported, illegal immigration. That is to say, if you look in a haystack for a needle that wasn't put there, the probability is high you won't find it. It is strange that that idea had not occurred to McCarthy. Choosing to focus on the official registration lists allows him to write:*
> 
> *From the analysis of rates of increase of the Muslim population of the three Palestiniansanjaks [Ottoman sub-provinces], one can say with certainty that Muslim immigration after 1870 was small.[34]
> Reflecting elsewhere on the possibility that the immigration may have occurred over an extended period of time, McCarthy writes: "To postulate such an immigration … stretches the limits of credulity."[35]
> 
> McCarthy's treatment of the linkage between economic disparities and migration impulses appears to be even more disingenuous. He writes: "The question of the relative economic development of Palestine in Ottoman times is not a matter to be discussed here."[36] Nor is it considered anywhere else in his book. That is to say, McCarthy does not contest the linkage so much as ignore its relevance to the Palestinian situation.[37]
> 
> His dismissal of Arab immigration into Palestine during the mandate period is based on a set of assumptions concerning illegal immigration that is both restrictive and unsubstantiated. He contends that even if the illegal immigrants were unreported on entry, their deaths in Palestine would have been registered. So too, he argues, would their children born in Palestine. Deriving estimates based on such registrations, he arrives at this conclusion: immigration was minimal.[38] But he provides no evidence to show that these supposed registrations of births and deaths were actually made. Had McCarthy considered the fact that detection of illegal immigration during the mandate period resulted in imprisonment and deportation and that immigrants, aware of this, may have avoided any formal registration of deaths and births, he would have had to revise his assessment of illegal immigration.
> 
> Perhaps the more serious charge against McCarthy's analysis of Arab immigration is his use of Roberto Bachi's estimates. McCarthy's numbers are based, in part, on Bachi's reporting of 900 illegal Arab immigrants per year over the period 1931-45.[39] But McCarthy misrepresents what Bachi's estimate is meant to show. Bachi is careful to identify his 900-per-year illegal Arab immigration estimate as only those discovered by the mandatory authorities. Illegal Arab immigration that went undetected and unreported is not included. He writes:*
> 
> *A detailed analysis presented in Appendix 6.5B on the basis of the registration of part of the illegal migratory traffic, discovered by the Palestine police, shows that legal movements (as reflected in Tables 9.4-9.7) constituted only a small fraction of total Muslim immigration.[40]
> To emphasize this point, Bachi writes: "It is hardly credible that illegal movements which were actually discovered included all the illegal entrances which actually occurred, or even the majority of them."[41] As a result, Bachi can only conclude that "in the present state of knowledge, we have beenunable to even guess the size of total immigration."[42]
> 
> Such a cautionary comment finds no place in McCarthy's analysis or conclusions. Using Bachi's estimates inappropriately, deriving estimates based solely on registration lists, and ignoring completely the linkages between regional economic disparities and migratory impulses, McCarthy confidently concludes,*
> 
> *the vast majority of the Palestinians resident in 1947 were the sons and daughters who were living in Palestine before modern Jewish immigration began. There is no reason to believe that they were not the sons and daughters of Arabs who had been in Palestine for many centuries.[43]
> Every Reason to Believe
> Therein lies the ideological warfare concerning claims to territorial inheritance and national sovereignty. Contrary to McCarthy's findings or wishes, there is every reason to believe that consequential immigration of Arabs into and within Palestine occurred during the Ottoman and British mandatory periods. Among the most compelling arguments in support of such immigration is the universally acknowledged and practiced linkage between regional economic disparities and migratory impulses.
> 
> The precise magnitude of Arab immigration into and within Palestine is, as Bachi noted, unknown. Lack of completeness in Ottoman registration lists and British Mandatory censuses, and the immeasurable illegal, unreported, and undetected immigration during both periods make any estimate a bold venture into creative analysis. In most cases, those venturing into the realm of Palestinian demography—or other demographic analyses based on very crude data—acknowledge its limitations and the tentativeness of the conclusions that may be drawn.
> 
> Fred M. Gottheil is a professor in the department of economics, University of Illinois.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Posting Zionist propaganda does not change the facts. Let's look at the facts as set forth in the Survey of Palestine Vol. 1, page 212.
> 
> View attachment 62285View attachment 62285
> 
> Now this is from a professional Anglo-American survey group that took all data into consideration.  Not some Zionist propagandist.  Interestingly, the survey indicates that there was, on the other hand, substantial illegal Jewish immigration from Europe.  The 3 volumes of the survey are available on-line at the Berman Jewish Policy Archive at NYU/Wagner.
> 
> The old Zionist propaganda has ceased to be effective since official archives have been made available online. At least for people with half a brain that can do research and is willing to discover the truth using independent source documentation.Here is the link to volume 1.
> A Survey of Palestine Volume 1  | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ NYU Wagner
Click to expand...

Your post is an official finding with NO Analysis.
My link gives the analysis and WHY it is wrong.

Further, your link talks about Arabs who came for the purpose of permanent settlement.. ONLY.
IOW, Tens of thousands of Arabs who came for work (as they always had and will) and just happpened to be there when they rang the bell are now "refugees."

It's funny how you try Apples and Oranges, while I am a native English speaker .. and I'm straightforward/honest.
+


----------



## montelatici

abu afak said:


> Forgot Link:
> It's easy to look up but highly useful for 'us' and for first part of article.
> The Smoking Gun: Arab Immigration into Palestine, 1922-1931
> All most cite are the Turkish-paid and Bogus Justin McCarthy assumptions.
> 
> and sorry about the bolding of the whole post.
> Unfortunately once bolded, it cannot be edited back to standard fonts. A quirk on this board.
> `



You keep posting nonsense from a propaganda site that the historical record debunks completely. 


abu afak said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Smoking Gun: Arab Immigration into Palestine, 1922-1931
> by Fred M. Gottheil
> Middle East Quarterly
> Winter 2003, pp. 53-64*
> 
> *['........]
> Evidence for Arab Migration*
> There are several problems associated with estimating Arab immigration into Palestine during the 1920s, the principal one being that *Arab migration flows were, in the main, illegal, and therefore unreported and unrecorded.[17] But they were not entirely unnoticed.*
> 
> Demographer U.O. Schmelz's analysis of the Ottoman registration data for 1905 populations of Jerusalem and Hebron _kaza_s (Ottoman districts), by place of birth, showed that of those* Arab Palestinians born outside their localities of residence, approximately HALF represented intra-Palestine movement—from areas of low-level economic activity to areas of higher-level activity—while the other half represented Arab immigration into Palestine itself, 43% originating in Asia, 39% in Africa, and 20% in Turkey.*[18] Schmelz conjectured:
> 
> The above-average population growth of the Arab villages around the city of Jerusalem, with its Jewish majority, continued until the end of the mandatory period. This must have been due—as elsewhere in Palestine under similar conditions—to in-migrants attracted by economic opportunities, and to the beneficial effects of improved health services in reducing mortality—_just as happened in other parts of Palestine around cities with a large Jewish population sector_.[19]
> 
> While Schmelz restricted his research of the 1905 Palestinian census to the official Ottoman registrations and used these registrations with only minor critical comment, he did acknowledge that "stable population models assume the absence of external migrations, _a condition which was obviously not met by all the subpopulations_" that Schmelz enumerated.[20]
> 
> Like U.O. Schmelz, Roberto Bachi expressed some reservation about the virtual non-existence of data and discussion concerning migration into and within Palestine. He writes:
> 
> Between 1800 and 1914, the Muslim population had a yearly average increase in the order of magnitude of roughly 6-7 per thousand. This can be compared to the very crude estimate of about 4 per thousand for the "less developed countries" of the world (in Asia, Africa, and Latin America) between 1800 and 1910. _It is possible that part of the growth of the Muslim population was due to Immigration_.[21]
> 
> Although Bachi did not pursue the linkage between undocumented immigration into Palestine and the 6 (or 7) to 4 per thousand differential in growth rates between Palestine and the other less developed countries (LDCs), the idea that at least one-third of Palestine's population growth may be attributed to immigration is—using Bachi's own growth rate differentials—not an entirely unreasonable one.
> 
> Lacking verifiable evidence did not prevent Bachi from stating the obvious concerning internal migration within Palestine:
> 
> *The great economic development of the coastal plains—largely due to Jewish immigration—was accompanied both in 1922-1931 and in 1931-1944 by a much stronger increase of the Muslim and Christian populations in this region than that registered in other regions. This was probably due to two reasons: stronger decrease in mortality of the non-Jewish population in the neighborhood of Jewish areas and Internal migration toward the more developed zones.[22]*[/B]
> 
> 
> In the footnote accompanying this quote, Bachi writes: "As no statistics are available for internal migration, this conclusion has been obtained from indirect evidence."[23] Bachi's footnote is instructive. The "indirect evidence" he referred to no doubt included his understanding of the important role economics plays in explaining demographic movements. While appreciating the value of Ottoman registrations and British mandatory government censuses in providing estimates of Palestinian demography, they were, in his judgment, still crude and incomplete.
> 
> Reference to Arab immigration into Palestine during the 1920s is made as well in the British mandatory government's annual compilation of statistical data on population. The _Palestine Blue Book, 1937_, for example, provides time series demographic statistics whose annual estimates are based on extrapolations from its 1922 census.[24] The footnote accompanying the table on population of Palestine reads:[/B]
> 
> *There has been unrecorded illegal immigration of both Jews and Arabs in the period since the census of 1931, but it is clear that, since it cannot be recorded, no estimate of its volume is possible.[25]
> The 1935 British report to the League of Nations noted that:*
> 
> *One thousand five hundred and fifty-seven persons (including 565 Jews) who, having made their way into the country surreptitiously, were later detected, were sentenced to imprisonment for their offence and recommended for deportation.[26]
> The number who "made their way into the country surreptitiously" and undetected was neither estimated nor mentioned.
> 
> Historian Gad Gilbar's observation on Ruth Kark's contribution to his edited volume Ottoman Palestine, 1800-1914, touches on the issue of Arab immigration into and within Palestine. He relates her ideas in "The Rise and Decline of Coastal Towns in Palestine" to Charles Issawi's thesis concerning the role of minority groups and foreigners in the development of Middle Eastern towns. Explaining why NO other Palestinian cities grew as rapidly as Jaffa and Haifa did during the final three decades of the Ottoman rule, Gilbar writes: "Both attracted population from the rural and urban surroundings and immigrants from outside Palestine."[27]
> 
> Each piece of the demographic puzzle by itself may reveal no identifiable picture. But given a multiplicity of such pieces, an image does begin to appear. The Royal Institute for International Affairs adds another piece. Commenting on the growth of the Palestinian population during the decades of the 1920s and 1930s it reports: "The number of Arabs who have entered Palestine illegally from Syria and Transjordan is unknown. But probably considerable."[28] And C.S. Jarvis, governor of the Sinai from 1923-36, adds yet another:*
> 
> *This illegal immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Trans-Jordan and Syria, and it is very difficult to make a case out for the misery of the Arabs if at the same time their compatriots from adjoining states could not be kept from going in to share that misery.[29]
> Estimating Real Numbers
> The derivation of Palestine migration estimates in this section is based on an uncomplicated imputation theory. Migration becomes a residual claimant for numbers not explained by a population-estimating model based on known initial population stocks and known sets of birth and death rates for that population. In this way, expected population stocks can be derived for any set of subsequent years.
> 
> The value of the model depends, of course, on the reliability of the estimates given for initial population stocks and for the rates associated with natural increase. Therein lies the problem with estimating Arab immigration into Palestine. The model itself may be simple and applicable, but its usefulness—as with all estimating models—is contingent upon the quality of the data inputs. That quality in the case of Palestinian migration is compromised by the explicit neglect of illegal entrants. If illegal migrants and subsequently illegal residents escaped the census taker, how could the census account for them? It couldn't and didn't.
> 
> It is not surprising then that the British census data produce an Arab Palestinian population growth for 1922-31 that turns out to be generated by natural increase and legal migrations alone. Applying a 2.5 per annum growth rate[30] to a population stock of 589,177 for 1922 generates a 1931 population estimate of 735,799 or 97.6% of the 753,822 recorded in the 1931 census. Does the imputation model then "prove" that illegal immigration into Palestine was inconsequential during 1922-31? Not at all. A footnote accompanying the census's population time series acknowledges the presence in Palestine of illegal Arab immigration. But because it could not be recorded, no estimate of its numbers was included in the census count.[31] Ignoring illegal migrants does not mean they don't exist.
> 
> Setting illegal immigration into Palestine aside, the imputation model does generate substantial migrations of Arab Palestinians within Palestine itself and confirms what many demographers, historians, government administrators, and economists have alluded to: the migration of Arab Palestinians from villages, towns, and cities of low economic opportunity to villages, towns, and cities of higher economic opportunity.
> 
> Which towns, villages, and cities offered the higher economic opportunity? Analyzing the 1922 and 1931 demographic data by sub-district and separating those sub-districts of Palestine that eventually became 1948 Israel—that is, sub-districts that had relatively large Jewish populations (with accompanying Jewish capital and modern technology)—from those that were not designated as part of 1948 Israel, identified not only the direction of Arab Palestinian migration within Palestine but its magnitude as well.[32]
> 
> The Arab Palestinian populations within those sub-districts that eventually became Israel increased from 321,866 in 1922 to 463,288 in 1931 or by 141,422. Applying the 2.5 per annum natural rate of population growth to the 1922 Arab Palestinian population generates an expected population size for 1931 of 398,498 or 64,790 less than the actual population recorded in the British census. By imputation, this unaccounted population increase must have been either illegal immigration not accounted for in the British census and/or registered Arab Palestinians moving from outside the Jewish-identified sub-districts to those sub-districts so identified.This 1922-31 Arab migration into the Jewish sub-districts represented 11.8% of the total 1931 Arab population residing in those sub-districts and as much as 36.8% of its 1922-31 growth.
> 
> That over 10% of the 1931 Arab Palestinian population in those sub-districts that eventually became Israel had immigrated to those sub-districts within the 1922-31years is a datum of considerable significance. It is consistent with the fragmentary evidence of illegal migration to and within Palestine; it supports the idea of linkage between economic disparities and migratory impulses—a linkage universally accepted; it undercuts the thesis of "spatial stickiness" attributed by some scholars to the Arab Palestinian population of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries; and it provides strong circumstantial evidence that the illegal Arab immigration into Palestine, like that within Palestine, was of consequence as well.
> 
> Denying the Evidence
> As compelling as the arguments and evidence supporting consequential illegal immigration may be to some scholars, they are clearly unconvincing to others. The single most cited contemporary publication on Palestinian demography is Justin McCarthy's 1990 The Population of Palestine. Of McCarthy's 43 pages of descriptive analysis—supplemented by 188 pages of demographic tables copied directly from Ottoman, European, and Jewish source materials—slightly more than one and a half pages are devoted to Arab immigration into and within Palestine during the Ottoman period, and a similar one and a half pages are devoted to Arab immigration during the succeeding mandate period.[33] According to McCarthy, these few pages offer enough critical analysis to close the lid on the "infamous" immigration thesis.
> 
> Consider first McCarthy's analysis of Arab immigration during the Ottoman period. That he finds no illegal immigration of consequence is not surprising because McCarthy uses official Ottoman registration lists that, by the nature of its classifications, take no account of the unreported, illegal immigration. That is to say, if you look in a haystack for a needle that wasn't put there, the probability is high you won't find it. It is strange that that idea had not occurred to McCarthy. Choosing to focus on the official registration lists allows him to write:*
> 
> *From the analysis of rates of increase of the Muslim population of the three Palestiniansanjaks [Ottoman sub-provinces], one can say with certainty that Muslim immigration after 1870 was small.[34]
> Reflecting elsewhere on the possibility that the immigration may have occurred over an extended period of time, McCarthy writes: "To postulate such an immigration … stretches the limits of credulity."[35]
> 
> McCarthy's treatment of the linkage between economic disparities and migration impulses appears to be even more disingenuous. He writes: "The question of the relative economic development of Palestine in Ottoman times is not a matter to be discussed here."[36] Nor is it considered anywhere else in his book. That is to say, McCarthy does not contest the linkage so much as ignore its relevance to the Palestinian situation.[37]
> 
> His dismissal of Arab immigration into Palestine during the mandate period is based on a set of assumptions concerning illegal immigration that is both restrictive and unsubstantiated. He contends that even if the illegal immigrants were unreported on entry, their deaths in Palestine would have been registered. So too, he argues, would their children born in Palestine. Deriving estimates based on such registrations, he arrives at this conclusion: immigration was minimal.[38] But he provides no evidence to show that these supposed registrations of births and deaths were actually made. Had McCarthy considered the fact that detection of illegal immigration during the mandate period resulted in imprisonment and deportation and that immigrants, aware of this, may have avoided any formal registration of deaths and births, he would have had to revise his assessment of illegal immigration.
> 
> Perhaps the more serious charge against McCarthy's analysis of Arab immigration is his use of Roberto Bachi's estimates. McCarthy's numbers are based, in part, on Bachi's reporting of 900 illegal Arab immigrants per year over the period 1931-45.[39] But McCarthy misrepresents what Bachi's estimate is meant to show. Bachi is careful to identify his 900-per-year illegal Arab immigration estimate as only those discovered by the mandatory authorities. Illegal Arab immigration that went undetected and unreported is not included. He writes:*
> 
> *A detailed analysis presented in Appendix 6.5B on the basis of the registration of part of the illegal migratory traffic, discovered by the Palestine police, shows that legal movements (as reflected in Tables 9.4-9.7) constituted only a small fraction of total Muslim immigration.[40]
> To emphasize this point, Bachi writes: "It is hardly credible that illegal movements which were actually discovered included all the illegal entrances which actually occurred, or even the majority of them."[41] As a result, Bachi can only conclude that "in the present state of knowledge, we have beenunable to even guess the size of total immigration."[42]
> 
> Such a cautionary comment finds no place in McCarthy's analysis or conclusions. Using Bachi's estimates inappropriately, deriving estimates based solely on registration lists, and ignoring completely the linkages between regional economic disparities and migratory impulses, McCarthy confidently concludes,*
> 
> *the vast majority of the Palestinians resident in 1947 were the sons and daughters who were living in Palestine before modern Jewish immigration began. There is no reason to believe that they were not the sons and daughters of Arabs who had been in Palestine for many centuries.[43]
> Every Reason to Believe
> Therein lies the ideological warfare concerning claims to territorial inheritance and national sovereignty. Contrary to McCarthy's findings or wishes, there is every reason to believe that consequential immigration of Arabs into and within Palestine occurred during the Ottoman and British mandatory periods. Among the most compelling arguments in support of such immigration is the universally acknowledged and practiced linkage between regional economic disparities and migratory impulses.
> 
> The precise magnitude of Arab immigration into and within Palestine is, as Bachi noted, unknown. Lack of completeness in Ottoman registration lists and British Mandatory censuses, and the immeasurable illegal, unreported, and undetected immigration during both periods make any estimate a bold venture into creative analysis. In most cases, those venturing into the realm of Palestinian demography—or other demographic analyses based on very crude data—acknowledge its limitations and the tentativeness of the conclusions that may be drawn.
> 
> Fred M. Gottheil is a professor in the department of economics, University of Illinois.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Posting Zionist propaganda does not change the facts. Let's look at the facts as set forth in the Survey of Palestine Vol. 1, page 212.
> 
> View attachment 62285View attachment 62285
> 
> Now this is from a professional Anglo-American survey group that took all data into consideration.  Not some Zionist propagandist.  Interestingly, the survey indicates that there was, on the other hand, substantial illegal Jewish immigration from Europe.  The 3 volumes of the survey are available on-line at the Berman Jewish Policy Archive at NYU/Wagner.
> 
> The old Zionist propaganda has ceased to be effective since official archives have been made available online. At least for people with half a brain that can do research and is willing to discover the truth using independent source documentation.Here is the link to volume 1.
> A Survey of Palestine Volume 1  | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ NYU Wagner
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your post is an official finding with NO Analysis.
> My link gives the analysis and WHY it is wrong.
> 
> Further, your link talks about Arabs who came for the purpose of permanent settlement.. ONLY.
> IOW, Tens of thousands of Arabs who came for work (as they always had and will) and just happpened to be there when they rang the bell are now "refugees."
> 
> It's funny how you try Apples and Oranges, while I am a native English speaker .. and I'm straightforward/honest.
> +
Click to expand...


Your link is to a propaganda site.  My link is to an historical university archive that hosts source documentation that contains fact.  Big difference.

By the way the Survey contains 100s of pages of analysis regarding immigration, legal and illegal.


----------



## abu afak

montelatici said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> Forgot Link:
> It's easy to look up but highly useful for 'us' and for first part of article.
> The Smoking Gun: Arab Immigration into Palestine, 1922-1931
> All most cite are the Turkish-paid and Bogus Justin McCarthy assumptions.
> 
> and sorry about the bolding of the whole post.
> Unfortunately once bolded, it cannot be edited back to standard fonts. A quirk on this board.
> `
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You keep posting nonsense from a propaganda site that the historical record debunks completely.
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Smoking Gun: Arab Immigration into Palestine, 1922-1931
> by Fred M. Gottheil
> Middle East Quarterly
> Winter 2003, pp. 53-64*
> 
> *['........]
> Evidence for Arab Migration*
> There are several problems associated with estimating Arab immigration into Palestine during the 1920s, the principal one being that *Arab migration flows were, in the main, illegal, and therefore unreported and unrecorded.[17] But they were not entirely unnoticed.*
> 
> Demographer U.O. Schmelz's analysis of the Ottoman registration data for 1905 populations of Jerusalem and Hebron _kaza_s (Ottoman districts), by place of birth, showed that of those* Arab Palestinians born outside their localities of residence, approximately HALF represented intra-Palestine movement—from areas of low-level economic activity to areas of higher-level activity—while the other half represented Arab immigration into Palestine itself, 43% originating in Asia, 39% in Africa, and 20% in Turkey.*[18] Schmelz conjectured:
> 
> The above-average population growth of the Arab villages around the city of Jerusalem, with its Jewish majority, continued until the end of the mandatory period. This must have been due—as elsewhere in Palestine under similar conditions—to in-migrants attracted by economic opportunities, and to the beneficial effects of improved health services in reducing mortality—_just as happened in other parts of Palestine around cities with a large Jewish population sector_.[19]
> 
> While Schmelz restricted his research of the 1905 Palestinian census to the official Ottoman registrations and used these registrations with only minor critical comment, he did acknowledge that "stable population models assume the absence of external migrations, _a condition which was obviously not met by all the subpopulations_" that Schmelz enumerated.[20]
> 
> Like U.O. Schmelz, Roberto Bachi expressed some reservation about the virtual non-existence of data and discussion concerning migration into and within Palestine. He writes:
> 
> Between 1800 and 1914, the Muslim population had a yearly average increase in the order of magnitude of roughly 6-7 per thousand. This can be compared to the very crude estimate of about 4 per thousand for the "less developed countries" of the world (in Asia, Africa, and Latin America) between 1800 and 1910. _It is possible that part of the growth of the Muslim population was due to Immigration_.[21]
> 
> Although Bachi did not pursue the linkage between undocumented immigration into Palestine and the 6 (or 7) to 4 per thousand differential in growth rates between Palestine and the other less developed countries (LDCs), the idea that at least one-third of Palestine's population growth may be attributed to immigration is—using Bachi's own growth rate differentials—not an entirely unreasonable one.
> 
> Lacking verifiable evidence did not prevent Bachi from stating the obvious concerning internal migration within Palestine:
> 
> *The great economic development of the coastal plains—largely due to Jewish immigration—was accompanied both in 1922-1931 and in 1931-1944 by a much stronger increase of the Muslim and Christian populations in this region than that registered in other regions. This was probably due to two reasons: stronger decrease in mortality of the non-Jewish population in the neighborhood of Jewish areas and Internal migration toward the more developed zones.[22]*[/B]
> 
> 
> In the footnote accompanying this quote, Bachi writes: "As no statistics are available for internal migration, this conclusion has been obtained from indirect evidence."[23] Bachi's footnote is instructive. The "indirect evidence" he referred to no doubt included his understanding of the important role economics plays in explaining demographic movements. While appreciating the value of Ottoman registrations and British mandatory government censuses in providing estimates of Palestinian demography, they were, in his judgment, still crude and incomplete.
> 
> Reference to Arab immigration into Palestine during the 1920s is made as well in the British mandatory government's annual compilation of statistical data on population. The _Palestine Blue Book, 1937_, for example, provides time series demographic statistics whose annual estimates are based on extrapolations from its 1922 census.[24] The footnote accompanying the table on population of Palestine reads:[/B]
> 
> *There has been unrecorded illegal immigration of both Jews and Arabs in the period since the census of 1931, but it is clear that, since it cannot be recorded, no estimate of its volume is possible.[25]
> The 1935 British report to the League of Nations noted that:*
> 
> *One thousand five hundred and fifty-seven persons (including 565 Jews) who, having made their way into the country surreptitiously, were later detected, were sentenced to imprisonment for their offence and recommended for deportation.[26]
> The number who "made their way into the country surreptitiously" and undetected was neither estimated nor mentioned.
> 
> Historian Gad Gilbar's observation on Ruth Kark's contribution to his edited volume Ottoman Palestine, 1800-1914, touches on the issue of Arab immigration into and within Palestine. He relates her ideas in "The Rise and Decline of Coastal Towns in Palestine" to Charles Issawi's thesis concerning the role of minority groups and foreigners in the development of Middle Eastern towns. Explaining why NO other Palestinian cities grew as rapidly as Jaffa and Haifa did during the final three decades of the Ottoman rule, Gilbar writes: "Both attracted population from the rural and urban surroundings and immigrants from outside Palestine."[27]
> 
> Each piece of the demographic puzzle by itself may reveal no identifiable picture. But given a multiplicity of such pieces, an image does begin to appear. The Royal Institute for International Affairs adds another piece. Commenting on the growth of the Palestinian population during the decades of the 1920s and 1930s it reports: "The number of Arabs who have entered Palestine illegally from Syria and Transjordan is unknown. But probably considerable."[28] And C.S. Jarvis, governor of the Sinai from 1923-36, adds yet another:*
> 
> *This illegal immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Trans-Jordan and Syria, and it is very difficult to make a case out for the misery of the Arabs if at the same time their compatriots from adjoining states could not be kept from going in to share that misery.[29]
> Estimating Real Numbers
> The derivation of Palestine migration estimates in this section is based on an uncomplicated imputation theory. Migration becomes a residual claimant for numbers not explained by a population-estimating model based on known initial population stocks and known sets of birth and death rates for that population. In this way, expected population stocks can be derived for any set of subsequent years.
> 
> The value of the model depends, of course, on the reliability of the estimates given for initial population stocks and for the rates associated with natural increase. Therein lies the problem with estimating Arab immigration into Palestine. The model itself may be simple and applicable, but its usefulness—as with all estimating models—is contingent upon the quality of the data inputs. That quality in the case of Palestinian migration is compromised by the explicit neglect of illegal entrants. If illegal migrants and subsequently illegal residents escaped the census taker, how could the census account for them? It couldn't and didn't.
> 
> It is not surprising then that the British census data produce an Arab Palestinian population growth for 1922-31 that turns out to be generated by natural increase and legal migrations alone. Applying a 2.5 per annum growth rate[30] to a population stock of 589,177 for 1922 generates a 1931 population estimate of 735,799 or 97.6% of the 753,822 recorded in the 1931 census. Does the imputation model then "prove" that illegal immigration into Palestine was inconsequential during 1922-31? Not at all. A footnote accompanying the census's population time series acknowledges the presence in Palestine of illegal Arab immigration. But because it could not be recorded, no estimate of its numbers was included in the census count.[31] Ignoring illegal migrants does not mean they don't exist.
> 
> Setting illegal immigration into Palestine aside, the imputation model does generate substantial migrations of Arab Palestinians within Palestine itself and confirms what many demographers, historians, government administrators, and economists have alluded to: the migration of Arab Palestinians from villages, towns, and cities of low economic opportunity to villages, towns, and cities of higher economic opportunity.
> 
> Which towns, villages, and cities offered the higher economic opportunity? Analyzing the 1922 and 1931 demographic data by sub-district and separating those sub-districts of Palestine that eventually became 1948 Israel—that is, sub-districts that had relatively large Jewish populations (with accompanying Jewish capital and modern technology)—from those that were not designated as part of 1948 Israel, identified not only the direction of Arab Palestinian migration within Palestine but its magnitude as well.[32]
> 
> The Arab Palestinian populations within those sub-districts that eventually became Israel increased from 321,866 in 1922 to 463,288 in 1931 or by 141,422. Applying the 2.5 per annum natural rate of population growth to the 1922 Arab Palestinian population generates an expected population size for 1931 of 398,498 or 64,790 less than the actual population recorded in the British census. By imputation, this unaccounted population increase must have been either illegal immigration not accounted for in the British census and/or registered Arab Palestinians moving from outside the Jewish-identified sub-districts to those sub-districts so identified.This 1922-31 Arab migration into the Jewish sub-districts represented 11.8% of the total 1931 Arab population residing in those sub-districts and as much as 36.8% of its 1922-31 growth.
> 
> That over 10% of the 1931 Arab Palestinian population in those sub-districts that eventually became Israel had immigrated to those sub-districts within the 1922-31years is a datum of considerable significance. It is consistent with the fragmentary evidence of illegal migration to and within Palestine; it supports the idea of linkage between economic disparities and migratory impulses—a linkage universally accepted; it undercuts the thesis of "spatial stickiness" attributed by some scholars to the Arab Palestinian population of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries; and it provides strong circumstantial evidence that the illegal Arab immigration into Palestine, like that within Palestine, was of consequence as well.
> 
> Denying the Evidence
> As compelling as the arguments and evidence supporting consequential illegal immigration may be to some scholars, they are clearly unconvincing to others. The single most cited contemporary publication on Palestinian demography is Justin McCarthy's 1990 The Population of Palestine. Of McCarthy's 43 pages of descriptive analysis—supplemented by 188 pages of demographic tables copied directly from Ottoman, European, and Jewish source materials—slightly more than one and a half pages are devoted to Arab immigration into and within Palestine during the Ottoman period, and a similar one and a half pages are devoted to Arab immigration during the succeeding mandate period.[33] According to McCarthy, these few pages offer enough critical analysis to close the lid on the "infamous" immigration thesis.
> 
> Consider first McCarthy's analysis of Arab immigration during the Ottoman period. That he finds no illegal immigration of consequence is not surprising because McCarthy uses official Ottoman registration lists that, by the nature of its classifications, take no account of the unreported, illegal immigration. That is to say, if you look in a haystack for a needle that wasn't put there, the probability is high you won't find it. It is strange that that idea had not occurred to McCarthy. Choosing to focus on the official registration lists allows him to write:*
> 
> *From the analysis of rates of increase of the Muslim population of the three Palestiniansanjaks [Ottoman sub-provinces], one can say with certainty that Muslim immigration after 1870 was small.[34]
> Reflecting elsewhere on the possibility that the immigration may have occurred over an extended period of time, McCarthy writes: "To postulate such an immigration … stretches the limits of credulity."[35]
> 
> McCarthy's treatment of the linkage between economic disparities and migration impulses appears to be even more disingenuous. He writes: "The question of the relative economic development of Palestine in Ottoman times is not a matter to be discussed here."[36] Nor is it considered anywhere else in his book. That is to say, McCarthy does not contest the linkage so much as ignore its relevance to the Palestinian situation.[37]
> 
> His dismissal of Arab immigration into Palestine during the mandate period is based on a set of assumptions concerning illegal immigration that is both restrictive and unsubstantiated. He contends that even if the illegal immigrants were unreported on entry, their deaths in Palestine would have been registered. So too, he argues, would their children born in Palestine. Deriving estimates based on such registrations, he arrives at this conclusion: immigration was minimal.[38] But he provides no evidence to show that these supposed registrations of births and deaths were actually made. Had McCarthy considered the fact that detection of illegal immigration during the mandate period resulted in imprisonment and deportation and that immigrants, aware of this, may have avoided any formal registration of deaths and births, he would have had to revise his assessment of illegal immigration.
> 
> Perhaps the more serious charge against McCarthy's analysis of Arab immigration is his use of Roberto Bachi's estimates. McCarthy's numbers are based, in part, on Bachi's reporting of 900 illegal Arab immigrants per year over the period 1931-45.[39] But McCarthy misrepresents what Bachi's estimate is meant to show. Bachi is careful to identify his 900-per-year illegal Arab immigration estimate as only those discovered by the mandatory authorities. Illegal Arab immigration that went undetected and unreported is not included. He writes:*
> 
> *A detailed analysis presented in Appendix 6.5B on the basis of the registration of part of the illegal migratory traffic, discovered by the Palestine police, shows that legal movements (as reflected in Tables 9.4-9.7) constituted only a small fraction of total Muslim immigration.[40]
> To emphasize this point, Bachi writes: "It is hardly credible that illegal movements which were actually discovered included all the illegal entrances which actually occurred, or even the majority of them."[41] As a result, Bachi can only conclude that "in the present state of knowledge, we have beenunable to even guess the size of total immigration."[42]
> 
> Such a cautionary comment finds no place in McCarthy's analysis or conclusions. Using Bachi's estimates inappropriately, deriving estimates based solely on registration lists, and ignoring completely the linkages between regional economic disparities and migratory impulses, McCarthy confidently concludes,*
> 
> *the vast majority of the Palestinians resident in 1947 were the sons and daughters who were living in Palestine before modern Jewish immigration began. There is no reason to believe that they were not the sons and daughters of Arabs who had been in Palestine for many centuries.[43]
> Every Reason to Believe
> Therein lies the ideological warfare concerning claims to territorial inheritance and national sovereignty. Contrary to McCarthy's findings or wishes, there is every reason to believe that consequential immigration of Arabs into and within Palestine occurred during the Ottoman and British mandatory periods. Among the most compelling arguments in support of such immigration is the universally acknowledged and practiced linkage between regional economic disparities and migratory impulses.
> 
> The precise magnitude of Arab immigration into and within Palestine is, as Bachi noted, unknown. Lack of completeness in Ottoman registration lists and British Mandatory censuses, and the immeasurable illegal, unreported, and undetected immigration during both periods make any estimate a bold venture into creative analysis. In most cases, those venturing into the realm of Palestinian demography—or other demographic analyses based on very crude data—acknowledge its limitations and the tentativeness of the conclusions that may be drawn.
> 
> Fred M. Gottheil is a professor in the department of economics, University of Illinois.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Posting Zionist propaganda does not change the facts. Let's look at the facts as set forth in the Survey of Palestine Vol. 1, page 212.
> 
> View attachment 62285View attachment 62285
> 
> Now this is from a professional Anglo-American survey group that took all data into consideration.  Not some Zionist propagandist.  Interestingly, the survey indicates that there was, on the other hand, substantial illegal Jewish immigration from Europe.  The 3 volumes of the survey are available on-line at the Berman Jewish Policy Archive at NYU/Wagner.
> 
> The old Zionist propaganda has ceased to be effective since official archives have been made available online. At least for people with half a brain that can do research and is willing to discover the truth using independent source documentation.Here is the link to volume 1.
> A Survey of Palestine Volume 1  | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ NYU Wagner
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your post is an official finding with NO Analysis.
> My link gives the analysis and WHY it is wrong.
> 
> Further, your link talks about Arabs who came for the purpose of permanent settlement.. ONLY.
> IOW, Tens of thousands of Arabs who came for work (as they always had and will) and just happpened to be there when they rang the bell are now "refugees."
> 
> It's funny how you try Apples and Oranges, while I am a native English speaker .. and I'm straightforward/honest.
> +
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your link is to a propaganda site.  My link is to an historical university archive that hosts source documentation that contains fact.  Big difference.
> 
> By the way the Survey contains 100s of pages of analysis regarding immigration, legal and illegal.
Click to expand...

My link has actual facts and logical conclusions that can be disputed or confirmed.
ALL your posts Are using 'Zionist' as an epithet, or calling anyone else's posts on the other side "Propaganda", withOut addressing it.
Nonresponsive/nonconversant.


----------



## montelatici

Your link is pure propaganda.  From a propaganda site.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Plenty of Palestinian Passes*
* The heavy cost of ignoring or rewarding Palestinian hostility and hate. *
February 10, 2016
Noah Beck






*Reprinted from InvestigativeProject.org.*

Activists who genuinely want to see peace between Israelis and Palestinians need to internalize a memorably alliterative warning: plenty of Palestinian passes perpetuate the impasse. The more global opinion ignores or rewards irresponsible behavior by Palestinians, the more likely renewed violence (rather than peace) becomes.

There are enough instances of unfair and counterproductive "Palestinian passes" to fill a tome, but here are some recent examples.

*PASSING ON HAMAS BELLICOSITY*

Probably the most important pass currently given to the Palestinians is the global silence over news that Hamas is preparing to launch another war against Israel while distressing ordinary Israelis with their ominous tunneling sounds. Such silence by the world's most important media, international bodies, political leaders, NGOs and academics helps keep Hamas in power, and when Hamas eventually launches new hostilities against Israel, many of the same voices that are now silent will blame Israel for the resulting suffering.

Hamas bellicosity is constant, and constantly ignored. Rather than prepare Palestinians for peace, Hamas glorifies death and promotes viciously hateful ideologies. A Hamas TV broadcast announces, "We have no problem with death. We are not like the children of Israel...we yearn for death and Martyrdom...Every mother...must nurse her children on hatred of the sons of Zion."

Last April, Iran reportedly sent Hamas tens of millions of dollars to rebuild tunnels and restock missile arsenals destroyed in 2014 by Israel during Operation Protective Edge. Instead of global sanctions or censure over its support for terrorism, Iran was rewarded with a nuclear deal that just unlocked $100 billion in frozen assets, some of which are expected to support more terrorism.

Hamas regularly starts pointless wars with Israel that doom Gaza to inevitable devastation. Then, when international sympathy and donations pour in, Hamas diverts the resources to rebuilding its offensive capabilities/tunnels (rather than destroyed homes in Gaza).

Hamas recently accelerated its tunnel-digging program. Indeed, three collapsing tunnels killed eight Hamas diggers in late January and another two last week.

Such reports establish that Hamas is diverting resources from rehabilitating Gaza to attacking Israel, and yet the world still blames Israel for Gazan misery.

*PASSING ON HAMAS ABUSE OF GAZANS*

Ironically, those who claim to excoriate Israel out of their concern for the welfare of Gaza don't seem to care when Hamas causes Gazan suffering.  At least 160 Gazan children died digging Hamas' tunnels intended to kill Israeli children. Hamas tortures political prisoners next to a girl's school and kills its critics (it executed 25 in 2014). Hamas executed 120 Gazans for breaching a curfew. Hamas kills fellow Palestinians when its rockets fall short. Unsurprisingly, in a poll last September, Gazans actually preferred Israeli rule to Hamas.

*PASSING ON PALESTINIAN INCITEMENT*

Facebook tolerates Palestinian incitement but quickly responds to complaints about Jewish racism. The company is clearly able to control the threats circulating on its site, as shown by Facebook's recent decision to stop gun sale promotions, making the continued incitement against Jews and Israelis on Facebook all the more outrageous. Facebook has much to learn from its tech rival, Google, which is reportedly directing jihadi search queries to sites that deradicalize.

...

Plenty of Palestinian Passes


----------



## Boston1

There is no palestinian identity. 

Its a political gimmick dreamed up by the Arab Muslims to try and destabilize Israel politically when it couldn't be done militarily


----------



## American_Jihad

*Is Israel Behind the Gaza Tunnel Collapses?*
* As Hamas digs its way to doom. *
March 8, 2016
P. David Hornik





...

  True, Hamas has now replenished its rocket arsenals:

Israeli officials now assess that Hamas has roughly the number of rockets that it had in June 2014. A major difference, though, is that most of the rockets are relatively short range and of lower quality, the officials believe….

The new rockets are mostly locally produced—due to the closing of the tunnels that ran between Sinai and the Gaza Strip and the difficulty Hamas faces in smuggling standard rockets and weapons into Gaza.

We can say for sure, at least, that Israel had something to do with the closure of the Sinai-to-Gaza tunnels:

For many long years, Israel begged the Egyptians to block Hamas’ tunnels—tunnels that allowed Gaza to become a veritable storehouse of weapons, rockets and missiles. [President] Sisi adopted this mission with great zeal, and the Egyptians destroyed all of the tunnels. Some were flooded with ocean water and some were blocked up….

To sum up: Hamas, a terror organization with about forty thousand fighters, keeps pursuing the fantasy of being able to defeat and destroy Israel, recently ranked the eighth most militarily powerful country in the world. Hamas does this at the expense of a population in dire economic straits, diverting what little aid and materials still enter the Strip into the building of rockets, tunnels, and the like that are not even on a par with those Hamas used in previous wars.

There is no sign of a popular revolt in Gaza like, for instance, the attempt at a popular revolt against Iran’s Islamist regime in 2009. It could be because Hamas’s brutal repression is too fearsome, or because too much of the population still shares Hamas’s goal of fighting Israel at all costs.

It is, in any case, a picture of human irrationality at its starkest and an old, familiar Palestinian story: pursuing an endless war against Israel while mostly killing and destroying themselves.

Is Israel Behind the Gaza Tunnel Collapses?


----------



## American_Jihad

*While Israel Endures Terror Attacks, Obama Seeks to Undermine an Ally*
* Stabbings claim the life of one American student. *
March 9, 2016
Ari Lieberman





  The brief lull in violence in Israel was shattered yesterday by Arab terror attacks in three cities across Israel that claimed the life of one American tourist and injured 13 others, some critically. The attacks coincided with a visit by Vice President Joe Biden, his first since 2010.

The first attack occurred in Petach Tikva. An Arab followed an Israeli into a store and began stabbing the civilian repeatedly in the upper part of his body. The civilian overcame his initial shock and in an amazing feat of courage and strength, pulled the knife out of his neck and succeeded in stabbing and killing his attacker.

The second attack occurred near the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem. An Arab terrorist on a motorcycle shot at an Israeli policeman, critically injuring him. Security forces then engaged the terrorist and killed him.

The third attack and by far the deadliest occurred in Jaffa. An Arab, identified as a 21-year-old male who was illegally in the country, went on a stabbing spree claiming the life of a 29-year-old American tourist, identified as Taylor Force, a graduate student at Vanderbilt University. The tourist’s wife is in critical condition fighting for her life. Eight others were also injured in the attack including an Israeli-Arab, a Palestinian Arab and a pregnant woman. The terrorist was neutralized near the beach promenade. The vice president was said to have been just fifteen minutes walking distance from the site where the terrorist was killed.

Since the wave of unrest that started in October 2015, 29 Israelis and 4 foreign nationals have been murdered by Arab terrorists using guns, knives, hatchets and motor vehicles. Over 170 Palestinian Arabs have been killed. Most while attempting to carry out terror attacks.

The Hamas terrorist organization, which rules the Gaza Strip, praised the attacks and termed them “heroic operations.” The Palestinian Authority, which governs the Palestinian population in Judea and Samaria (West Bank), has yet to issue any form of condemnation.

The attacks come amid a diplomatic row sparked by the Obama administration. Prime Minister Netanyahu had been scheduled to attend the annual AIPAC conference which is slated to commence on March 20. It was hoped that he would also be able to meet Obama during that time to discuss regional issues and other matters of mutual concern. Obama however, had other plans and decided to skip the AIPAC conference entirely in favor of a meeting with the despotic Castro brothers.

Another date of March 18 was offered but scheduling problems prevented a meeting on that date. Netanyahu opted instead to nix his planned U.S. visit and address the AIPAC confab via video conference. One of the reasons cited was a desire not to interfere with U.S. elections. Some of the presidential hopefuls are slated to give speeches or otherwise attend the conference and while there, would undoubtedly seek an audience with Netanyahu. He therefore thought it best to avoid the appearance of interfering with the U.S. electoral process.

...

While Israel Endures Terror Attacks, Obama Seeks to Undermine an Ally


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Your link is pure propaganda.  From a propaganda site.








 Point proven yet again


----------



## American_Jihad

*YouTube Suspends Account of Palestinian Media Watchdog *
* What happens when you expose Palestinian Jew hatred. *
March 10, 2016
Ari Lieberman





...

  Western audiences are rarely exposed to such obscenities. They’re accustomed to viewing polished and often sympathetic Muslim characters who speak of the importance of peace and their desire for democracy and freedom. Of course, what it said behind closed doors, in Arabic to Arabic audiences, remains behind closed doors.

Faced with such malevolence, the importance of monitoring and exposing Arab media takes on a sense of urgency. Two organizations, the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) and Palestinian Media Watch (PMW) have stood at the forefront of this endeavor. Their efforts have borne fruit and actually forced Western governments to confront Arab anti-Semitism and more carefully scrutinize allocation of funds. In some cases, Arab entities dependent on Western financing were compelled to modify their behavior as a condition of continued financial backing.

PMW operates a website where it hosts its translated Arabic videos and other content and also maintains an account with YouTube where viewers can screen uploaded videos. On March 3, PMW uploaded a disturbing video featuring a child on a Palestinian children’s program reciting a violent poem liberally laced with references to the destruction of Israel and murder of Jews. Shortly thereafter, YouTube suspended PMW’s account. Those who attempted to access PMW’s YouTube site to view their informative content were instead treated to a terse one-line statement that stated; “This account has been terminated due to repeated or severe violations of our Community Guidelines and/or claims of copyright infringement.”

Apparently, Ramallah was upset over the fact that someone had exposed the grubs and maggots sheltered beneath the rock and immediately filed a complaint with YouTube. YouTube, either out of ignorance or malevolence, duly complied with the request to have PMW’s account suspended.

Fortunately, the suspension was brief. A flurry of protest from YouTube users coupled with negative media exposure generated by the fallout from the suspension compelled the social media site to rethink its rash and frankly, idiotic decision.

The incident is reminiscent of several recent embarrassing Facebook faux pas involving removal of benign pro-Israel posts, while leaving intact blatantly anti-Semitic images, depicting violence against Jews or alternatively, depicting Jews with grotesquely exaggerated features, wielding undue influence over the United States.  In one such episode, Facebook removed a picture of Israel’s late Prime Minister, Golda Meir, accompanied by her famous quote, “Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.” Apparently, someone at Facebook determined that the quotation or image represented a “genuine risk of physical harm or direct threats to public safety.” Once again, public outcry against this obscenity compelled Facebook to quickly perform an about-face and the image with the quotation was restored.

...

The social media war continues unabated with anti-Israel rejectionists utilizing these mediums as tools to further their nefarious agendas. YouTube, Facebook and other social media forums have an obligation to their users to act fairly and responsibly. Content designed to educate and inform, such as the videos featured by PMW, should not be arbitrarily removed. Conversely, content uploaded for the sole purpose of propagating hate and violence, should be removed expeditiously. Facebook and YouTube have acted irresponsibly in this regard in recent months but hopefully, with proper community monitoring and the threat of legal action, this will change.

YouTube Suspends Account of Palestinian Media Watchdog


----------



## Billo_Really

American_Jihad said:


> *YouTube Suspends Account of Palestinian Media Watchdog *
> * What happens when you expose Palestinian Jew hatred. *
> March 10, 2016
> Ari Lieberman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Western audiences are rarely exposed to such obscenities. They’re accustomed to viewing polished and often sympathetic Muslim characters who speak of the importance of peace and their desire for democracy and freedom. Of course, what it said behind closed doors, in Arabic to Arabic audiences, remains behind closed doors.
> 
> Faced with such malevolence, the importance of monitoring and exposing Arab media takes on a sense of urgency. Two organizations, the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) and Palestinian Media Watch (PMW) have stood at the forefront of this endeavor. Their efforts have borne fruit and actually forced Western governments to confront Arab anti-Semitism and more carefully scrutinize allocation of funds. In some cases, Arab entities dependent on Western financing were compelled to modify their behavior as a condition of continued financial backing.
> 
> PMW operates a website where it hosts its translated Arabic videos and other content and also maintains an account with YouTube where viewers can screen uploaded videos. On March 3, PMW uploaded a disturbing video featuring a child on a Palestinian children’s program reciting a violent poem liberally laced with references to the destruction of Israel and murder of Jews. Shortly thereafter, YouTube suspended PMW’s account. Those who attempted to access PMW’s YouTube site to view their informative content were instead treated to a terse one-line statement that stated; “This account has been terminated due to repeated or severe violations of our Community Guidelines and/or claims of copyright infringement.”
> 
> Apparently, Ramallah was upset over the fact that someone had exposed the grubs and maggots sheltered beneath the rock and immediately filed a complaint with YouTube. YouTube, either out of ignorance or malevolence, duly complied with the request to have PMW’s account suspended.
> 
> Fortunately, the suspension was brief. A flurry of protest from YouTube users coupled with negative media exposure generated by the fallout from the suspension compelled the social media site to rethink its rash and frankly, idiotic decision.
> 
> The incident is reminiscent of several recent embarrassing Facebook faux pas involving removal of benign pro-Israel posts, while leaving intact blatantly anti-Semitic images, depicting violence against Jews or alternatively, depicting Jews with grotesquely exaggerated features, wielding undue influence over the United States.  In one such episode, Facebook removed a picture of Israel’s late Prime Minister, Golda Meir, accompanied by her famous quote, “Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.” Apparently, someone at Facebook determined that the quotation or image represented a “genuine risk of physical harm or direct threats to public safety.” Once again, public outcry against this obscenity compelled Facebook to quickly perform an about-face and the image with the quotation was restored.
> 
> ...
> 
> The social media war continues unabated with anti-Israel rejectionists utilizing these mediums as tools to further their nefarious agendas. YouTube, Facebook and other social media forums have an obligation to their users to act fairly and responsibly. Content designed to educate and inform, such as the videos featured by PMW, should not be arbitrarily removed. Conversely, content uploaded for the sole purpose of propagating hate and violence, should be removed expeditiously. Facebook and YouTube have acted irresponsibly in this regard in recent months but hopefully, with proper community monitoring and the threat of legal action, this will change.
> 
> YouTube Suspends Account of Palestinian Media Watchdog


Just another example of Israeli thought control.


----------



## montelatici

These Israeli children say they look forward to killing Arabs and "picture dead Arabs".  Is there any difference?


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *YouTube Suspends Account of Palestinian Media Watchdog *
> * What happens when you expose Palestinian Jew hatred. *
> March 10, 2016
> Ari Lieberman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Western audiences are rarely exposed to such obscenities. They’re accustomed to viewing polished and often sympathetic Muslim characters who speak of the importance of peace and their desire for democracy and freedom. Of course, what it said behind closed doors, in Arabic to Arabic audiences, remains behind closed doors.
> 
> Faced with such malevolence, the importance of monitoring and exposing Arab media takes on a sense of urgency. Two organizations, the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) and Palestinian Media Watch (PMW) have stood at the forefront of this endeavor. Their efforts have borne fruit and actually forced Western governments to confront Arab anti-Semitism and more carefully scrutinize allocation of funds. In some cases, Arab entities dependent on Western financing were compelled to modify their behavior as a condition of continued financial backing.
> 
> PMW operates a website where it hosts its translated Arabic videos and other content and also maintains an account with YouTube where viewers can screen uploaded videos. On March 3, PMW uploaded a disturbing video featuring a child on a Palestinian children’s program reciting a violent poem liberally laced with references to the destruction of Israel and murder of Jews. Shortly thereafter, YouTube suspended PMW’s account. Those who attempted to access PMW’s YouTube site to view their informative content were instead treated to a terse one-line statement that stated; “This account has been terminated due to repeated or severe violations of our Community Guidelines and/or claims of copyright infringement.”
> 
> Apparently, Ramallah was upset over the fact that someone had exposed the grubs and maggots sheltered beneath the rock and immediately filed a complaint with YouTube. YouTube, either out of ignorance or malevolence, duly complied with the request to have PMW’s account suspended.
> 
> Fortunately, the suspension was brief. A flurry of protest from YouTube users coupled with negative media exposure generated by the fallout from the suspension compelled the social media site to rethink its rash and frankly, idiotic decision.
> 
> The incident is reminiscent of several recent embarrassing Facebook faux pas involving removal of benign pro-Israel posts, while leaving intact blatantly anti-Semitic images, depicting violence against Jews or alternatively, depicting Jews with grotesquely exaggerated features, wielding undue influence over the United States.  In one such episode, Facebook removed a picture of Israel’s late Prime Minister, Golda Meir, accompanied by her famous quote, “Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.” Apparently, someone at Facebook determined that the quotation or image represented a “genuine risk of physical harm or direct threats to public safety.” Once again, public outcry against this obscenity compelled Facebook to quickly perform an about-face and the image with the quotation was restored.
> 
> ...
> 
> The social media war continues unabated with anti-Israel rejectionists utilizing these mediums as tools to further their nefarious agendas. YouTube, Facebook and other social media forums have an obligation to their users to act fairly and responsibly. Content designed to educate and inform, such as the videos featured by PMW, should not be arbitrarily removed. Conversely, content uploaded for the sole purpose of propagating hate and violence, should be removed expeditiously. Facebook and YouTube have acted irresponsibly in this regard in recent months but hopefully, with proper community monitoring and the threat of legal action, this will change.
> 
> YouTube Suspends Account of Palestinian Media Watchdog
> 
> 
> 
> Just another example of Israeli thought control.
Click to expand...

In most of the modern, first world, incitement to violence is a crime. The modern, first world would exclude Islamic terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> These Israeli children say they look forward to killing Arabs and "picture dead Arabs".  Is there any difference?


That's the same silly YouTube video you have cut and pasted multiple times across multiple threads.


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> These Israeli children say they look forward to killing Arabs and "picture dead Arabs".  Is there any difference?



Look, its pretty tragic that children anywhere in the world have to grow up understanding war and conflict, but its a reality.  And its not just a reality in Gaza and Israel -- the US is extremely proud of its military and many children in the US grow up glorifying war and wanting to become national heroes by killing the "enemy".  And many countries in the world have "open houses" in the military where children and civilians can come and climb on the tanks and play with the weapons and talk to the soldiers.  

But the difference between the American ideology surrounding war, the Gazan ideology and the Israeli ideology is significant.  

Of course there is a difference between "kill all the Jews, because they are evil" and "the enemy is coming after us to kill us and we must defend ourselves".  

Duh.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> In most of the modern, first world, incitement to violence is a crime. The modern, first world would exclude Islamic terrorists.


And that incitement, is the occupation.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Look, its pretty tragic that children anywhere in the world have to grow up understanding war and conflict, but its a reality.  And its not just a reality in Gaza and Israel -- the US is extremely proud of its military and many children in the US grow up glorifying war and wanting to become national heroes by killing the "enemy".  And many countries in the world have "open houses" in the military where children and civilians can come and climb on the tanks and play with the weapons and talk to the soldiers.
> 
> But the difference between the American ideology surrounding war, the Gazan ideology and the Israeli ideology is significant.
> 
> Of course there is a difference between "kill all the Jews, because they are evil" and "the enemy is coming after us to kill us and we must defend ourselves".
> 
> Duh.


The US doesn't force its citizens to serve in the military.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Duh.


The US doesn't force its citizens to serve in the military.[/QUOTE]

The US is also not under constant attack.  And no, the US just glorifies the military and the "right" to use violence.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Global Teacher Prize Winner's Husband Massacred Jews Celebrating Sabbath*
March 21, 2016
Daniel Greenfield





  You might have seen the media blowing up this story not long ago.

Hanan Al Hroub, a Muslim settler living in the West Bank, in '67 Israel, received the Global Teacher Prize and $1 million bucks that come with it. She was praised by Bill Clinton and Pope Francis. And she supposedly teaches non-violence to her students. Aussie Dave at Isreallycool uncovered the grim reality behind the hype.

...

  The actual story is that her husband took part in the brutal terrorist attack on Jews walking home from synagogue. This was the Beit Hadassah attack. (Dabboya is the name used by Muslim settlers in '67 Israel to refer to the Jewish area.)

Six, not thirteen, Jews were murdered. Twenty others were wounded. There was no pursuit. This was a cold-blooded ambush. The terrorists set up their position on a rooftop and opened fire on Jews celebrating the Sabbath. 

...

  This is the truth behind the lies put out by and about Hanan Al-Hroub and her husband's "suffering" at the hands of Israel. Her husband is a coward and a murderer. And you can easily imagine what she really teaches her students.


Global Teacher Prize Winner's Husband Massacred Jews Celebrating Sabbath


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *YouTube Suspends Account of Palestinian Media Watchdog *
> * What happens when you expose Palestinian Jew hatred. *
> March 10, 2016
> Ari Lieberman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Western audiences are rarely exposed to such obscenities. They’re accustomed to viewing polished and often sympathetic Muslim characters who speak of the importance of peace and their desire for democracy and freedom. Of course, what it said behind closed doors, in Arabic to Arabic audiences, remains behind closed doors.
> 
> Faced with such malevolence, the importance of monitoring and exposing Arab media takes on a sense of urgency. Two organizations, the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) and Palestinian Media Watch (PMW) have stood at the forefront of this endeavor. Their efforts have borne fruit and actually forced Western governments to confront Arab anti-Semitism and more carefully scrutinize allocation of funds. In some cases, Arab entities dependent on Western financing were compelled to modify their behavior as a condition of continued financial backing.
> 
> PMW operates a website where it hosts its translated Arabic videos and other content and also maintains an account with YouTube where viewers can screen uploaded videos. On March 3, PMW uploaded a disturbing video featuring a child on a Palestinian children’s program reciting a violent poem liberally laced with references to the destruction of Israel and murder of Jews. Shortly thereafter, YouTube suspended PMW’s account. Those who attempted to access PMW’s YouTube site to view their informative content were instead treated to a terse one-line statement that stated; “This account has been terminated due to repeated or severe violations of our Community Guidelines and/or claims of copyright infringement.”
> 
> Apparently, Ramallah was upset over the fact that someone had exposed the grubs and maggots sheltered beneath the rock and immediately filed a complaint with YouTube. YouTube, either out of ignorance or malevolence, duly complied with the request to have PMW’s account suspended.
> 
> Fortunately, the suspension was brief. A flurry of protest from YouTube users coupled with negative media exposure generated by the fallout from the suspension compelled the social media site to rethink its rash and frankly, idiotic decision.
> 
> The incident is reminiscent of several recent embarrassing Facebook faux pas involving removal of benign pro-Israel posts, while leaving intact blatantly anti-Semitic images, depicting violence against Jews or alternatively, depicting Jews with grotesquely exaggerated features, wielding undue influence over the United States.  In one such episode, Facebook removed a picture of Israel’s late Prime Minister, Golda Meir, accompanied by her famous quote, “Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.” Apparently, someone at Facebook determined that the quotation or image represented a “genuine risk of physical harm or direct threats to public safety.” Once again, public outcry against this obscenity compelled Facebook to quickly perform an about-face and the image with the quotation was restored.
> 
> ...
> 
> The social media war continues unabated with anti-Israel rejectionists utilizing these mediums as tools to further their nefarious agendas. YouTube, Facebook and other social media forums have an obligation to their users to act fairly and responsibly. Content designed to educate and inform, such as the videos featured by PMW, should not be arbitrarily removed. Conversely, content uploaded for the sole purpose of propagating hate and violence, should be removed expeditiously. Facebook and YouTube have acted irresponsibly in this regard in recent months but hopefully, with proper community monitoring and the threat of legal action, this will change.
> 
> YouTube Suspends Account of Palestinian Media Watchdog
> 
> 
> 
> Just another example of Israeli thought control.
Click to expand...







 Read the article again dick head it was the islamonazis that complained and enforced the thought control


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> In most of the modern, first world, incitement to violence is a crime. The modern, first world would exclude Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> And that incitement, is the occupation.
Click to expand...







Hardly as the violence and terrorism was the incitement for the occupation in the first place. The Palestinians were given 3 chances to be good neighbours and destroyed all 3 by resorting to violence and terrorism.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look, its pretty tragic that children anywhere in the world have to grow up understanding war and conflict, but its a reality.  And its not just a reality in Gaza and Israel -- the US is extremely proud of its military and many children in the US grow up glorifying war and wanting to become national heroes by killing the "enemy".  And many countries in the world have "open houses" in the military where children and civilians can come and climb on the tanks and play with the weapons and talk to the soldiers.
> 
> But the difference between the American ideology surrounding war, the Gazan ideology and the Israeli ideology is significant.
> 
> Of course there is a difference between "kill all the Jews, because they are evil" and "the enemy is coming after us to kill us and we must defend ourselves".
> 
> Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> The US doesn't force its citizens to serve in the military.
Click to expand...







 It did not that long ago, as did most of the civilised world. You can bet that if the US was ever threatened with violence and terrorism for its occupation of Texas, California and New Mexico then the draft would be brought back.


----------



## American_Jihad

*The Religion of Colonialism*
* Why you can't "colonize" Palestine. *
April 5, 2016
Daniel Greenfield





  At Israeli Apartheid Week, campus haters claim to be fighting “colonialism” by fighting Jews. Columbia University’s Center for Palestine Studies, dedicated to a country that doesn’t exist and which has produced nothing worth studying except terrorism, features diatribes such as Abdul Rahim al-Shaikh’s Palestine Re-Covered: Reading a Settler Colonial Landscape”. This word salad is a toxic stew of historical revisionism being used to justify the Muslim settler colonization of the indigenous Jewish population. 

Colonialism is CPS’ favorite word. When Israeli social workers remove abused children from Muslim homes, that’s colonialism. Israeli farms are a form of environmental “colonialism”. When non-profits aren’t representative enough, it’s the fault of the “Israeli settler-colonial regime.”  If it rains on Thursday, it’s caused by “colonialism,” preferably of the “Israeli Zionist colonial settler regime” variety.

But you can’t colonize colonizers. The Muslim population in Israel is a foreign colonist population. The indigenous Jewish population can resettle its own country, but it can’t colonize it.

Not even if you accuse Jews of being a “super-double-secret settler colonial regime.”

Muslims invaded, conquered and settled Israel. They forced their language and laws on the population. That's the definition of colonialism. You can't colonize and then complain that you're being colonized when the natives take back the power that you stole from them.

There are Muslims in Israel for the same reason that there are Muslims in India. They are the remnants of a Muslim colonial regime that displaced and oppressed the indigenous non-Muslim population.

There are no serious historical arguments to be made against any of this. 

The Muslim conquests and invasions are well-documented. The Muslim settlements fit every historical template of colonialism complete with importing a foreign population and social system that was imposed on the native population. Until they began losing wars to the indigenous Jewish population, the Muslim settlers were not ashamed of their colonial past, they gloried in it. Their historical legacy was based on seizing indigenous sites, appropriating them and renaming them after the new conquerors.

...

Islamic colonialism has always been defeated, whether at the Gates of Vienna or in the Sinai Desert. Its colonial fantasies are false and will be defeated as many times as it takes, whether in the form of Palestine or ISIS.  

The Religion of Colonialism


----------



## Challenger

American_Jihad said:


> *The Religion of Colonialism*
> * Why you can't "colonize" Palestine. *
> April 5, 2016
> Daniel Greenfield
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At Israeli Apartheid Week, campus haters claim to be fighting “colonialism” by fighting Jews. Columbia University’s Center for Palestine Studies, dedicated to a country that doesn’t exist and which has produced nothing worth studying except terrorism, features diatribes such as Abdul Rahim al-Shaikh’s Palestine Re-Covered: Reading a Settler Colonial Landscape”. This word salad is a toxic stew of historical revisionism being used to justify the Muslim settler colonization of the indigenous Jewish population.
> 
> Colonialism is CPS’ favorite word. When Israeli social workers remove abused children from Muslim homes, that’s colonialism. Israeli farms are a form of environmental “colonialism”. When non-profits aren’t representative enough, it’s the fault of the “Israeli settler-colonial regime.”  If it rains on Thursday, it’s caused by “colonialism,” preferably of the “Israeli Zionist colonial settler regime” variety.
> 
> But you can’t colonize colonizers. The Muslim population in Israel is a foreign colonist population. The indigenous Jewish population can resettle its own country, but it can’t colonize it.
> 
> Not even if you accuse Jews of being a “super-double-secret settler colonial regime.”
> 
> Muslims invaded, conquered and settled Israel. They forced their language and laws on the population. That's the definition of colonialism. You can't colonize and then complain that you're being colonized when the natives take back the power that you stole from them.
> 
> There are Muslims in Israel for the same reason that there are Muslims in India. They are the remnants of a Muslim colonial regime that displaced and oppressed the indigenous non-Muslim population.
> 
> There are no serious historical arguments to be made against any of this.
> 
> The Muslim conquests and invasions are well-documented. The Muslim settlements fit every historical template of colonialism complete with importing a foreign population and social system that was imposed on the native population. Until they began losing wars to the indigenous Jewish population, the Muslim settlers were not ashamed of their colonial past, they gloried in it. Their historical legacy was based on seizing indigenous sites, appropriating them and renaming them after the new conquerors.
> 
> ...
> 
> Islamic colonialism has always been defeated, whether at the Gates of Vienna or in the Sinai Desert. Its colonial fantasies are false and will be defeated as many times as it takes, whether in the form of Palestine or ISIS.
> 
> The Religion of Colonialism





Good grief! Standard Zionist Hasbara re-write of events that pays no attention to actual historical fact and fails to substantiate any of the assertions made in the blog. Still what else can you expect from someone working for the David Horowitz "Freedom" Centre? Oh, yes, pure bullshit.

This must be the latest play that the Zionist Hasbara machine has come up with:

"This word salad is a toxic stew of historical revisionism being used to justify the Muslim settler colonization of the indigenous Jewish population."

To try to convince the gullable that white European colonists are somehow "indigenous"  to a land of "brown" people.


----------



## montelatici

American_Jihad said:


> *The Religion of Colonialism*
> * Why you can't "colonize" Palestine. *
> April 5, 2016
> Daniel Greenfield
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At Israeli Apartheid Week, campus haters claim to be fighting “colonialism” by fighting Jews. Columbia University’s Center for Palestine Studies, dedicated to a country that doesn’t exist and which has produced nothing worth studying except terrorism, features diatribes such as Abdul Rahim al-Shaikh’s Palestine Re-Covered: Reading a Settler Colonial Landscape”. This word salad is a toxic stew of historical revisionism being used to justify the Muslim settler colonization of the indigenous Jewish population.
> 
> Colonialism is CPS’ favorite word. When Israeli social workers remove abused children from Muslim homes, that’s colonialism. Israeli farms are a form of environmental “colonialism”. When non-profits aren’t representative enough, it’s the fault of the “Israeli settler-colonial regime.”  If it rains on Thursday, it’s caused by “colonialism,” preferably of the “Israeli Zionist colonial settler regime” variety.
> 
> But you can’t colonize colonizers. The Muslim population in Israel is a foreign colonist population. The indigenous Jewish population can resettle its own country, but it can’t colonize it.
> 
> Not even if you accuse Jews of being a “super-double-secret settler colonial regime.”
> 
> Muslims invaded, conquered and settled Israel. They forced their language and laws on the population. That's the definition of colonialism. You can't colonize and then complain that you're being colonized when the natives take back the power that you stole from them.
> 
> There are Muslims in Israel for the same reason that there are Muslims in India. They are the remnants of a Muslim colonial regime that displaced and oppressed the indigenous non-Muslim population.
> 
> There are no serious historical arguments to be made against any of this.
> 
> The Muslim conquests and invasions are well-documented. The Muslim settlements fit every historical template of colonialism complete with importing a foreign population and social system that was imposed on the native population. Until they began losing wars to the indigenous Jewish population, the Muslim settlers were not ashamed of their colonial past, they gloried in it. Their historical legacy was based on seizing indigenous sites, appropriating them and renaming them after the new conquerors.
> 
> ...
> 
> Islamic colonialism has always been defeated, whether at the Gates of Vienna or in the Sinai Desert. Its colonial fantasies are false and will be defeated as many times as it takes, whether in the form of Palestine or ISIS.
> 
> The Religion of Colonialism




The Zionists believed they could colonize Palestine and they did.  How is Hasbara going to eliminate NYT and JTA news reports? Amazing how these nutters find propaganda publish it and never think to check if the Hasbara has eliminated access to source material that debunks their nonsense

*Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier, Weizmann Tells Actions Committee*
July 25, 1926

"(Jewish Telegraphic Agency)

The various phases of the present situation in Palestine and in the Zionist movement throughout the world, and plans of Zionist leadership for the immediate future, were submitted for consideration at the Zionist Actions Committee which opened its session here yesterday.

The contemplated trip to the United States of Dr. Chaim Weizmann, president of the World Zionist Organization, the continuation of his efforts while in America to extend the Jewish Agency through his negotiations with the Marshall group, the possibilities of extending Jewish colonization work outside of the present Palestine frontiers, including. Transjordania and certain parts of Syria, were the main features around which the deliberations centered






Zionists plan to colonize Palestine in 1899 NY Times





An article about a Conference of Zionists published on July 20, 1899 in the New York Times expresses that the Zionists “will colonize Palestine.”

Zionists plan to colonize Palestine in 1899 NY Times - World Bulletin


----------



## theliq

American_Jihad said:


> The " palestinians" are arab outcast from surrounding arab countries...
> 
> *The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments *
> * When lies are the foundation of policies. *
> October 16, 2015
> Bruce Thornton
> 
> Many of our policy debates and conflicts both domestic and foreign call on history to validate their positions. At home, crimes from the past like slavery and legal segregation are used to justify present policies ranging from racial set asides to housing regulations long after those institutions have been dismantled. Abroad, our jihadist enemies continually evoke the Crusades, “colonialism,” and “imperialism” as justifications for their violence. Yet the “history” used in such fashion is usually one-sided, simplistic, or downright false. Nor is the reason hard to find: as we read in _1984_, “Who controls the past . . . controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.” Bad history is a powerful instrument for gaining political power.
> 
> Nowhere is the abuse of history more rampant than in the Middle East. Since World War II all the problems whose origins lie in dysfunctional tribal and religious beliefs and behaviors have been laid at the feet of “colonialism” and “imperialism.” Western leftists––besotted both by a _marxiste_ hatred of liberal democracy, and by juvenile noble-savage Third-Worldism–– have legitimized this specious pretext, which now for many has become historical fact.
> 
> ...
> 
> Everything about this narrative is false. There is no such thing as a “Palestinian” people, an idea that arose only after the Six Day War of 1967. The bulk of the people mistakenly called “Palestinians” are ethnically, religiously, and linguistically indistinguishable from Arab Muslims in Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria. Numerous comments by Arab leaders before 1967 emphasized this fact. For example, Zouhair Muhsin, a member of the Executive Council of the PLO, said, “There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity… Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.”
> 
> ...
> 
> Finally, the charge of an “illegal occupation” of the “occupied West Bank” is a canard. Those territories, comprising the heartland of the ancient Jewish nations of Judea and Samaria, are _disputed_, their final disposition awaiting a peace treaty. There are no “borders” thought to define the mythical Palestinian nation. Those lines on the map are armistice lines, created after Israel defeated the armies of Syria, Jordan, and Egypt in 1967. By all rights as the victor, Israel could have incorporated the so-called West Bank into the state of Israel, on the same eternal wages of war that led to the American Southwest being incorporated into the U.S. after the 1846-48 war with Mexico, or of Prussian Germany into Poland after World War II. Indeed, since the territory in question was for thousands of years the homeland of the Jewish people, Israel would have had a _better_ case for restoring Judea and Samaria to Israel. Instead, in the Orwellian history created by Muslims and accepted by the West, the indigenous peoples are considered the “occupiers” of their own lands, and conquerors, invaders, and colonizers considered the disenfranchised victims.
> 
> The recent suicide-murders of random Israelis by Palestinians have been analyzed in terms that perpetuate this false history. Our intellectually challenged Secretary of State, John Kerry, referred to this false history when he said at Harvard, “There’s been a massive increase in settlement over the course of the last years and there’s an increase in the violence because there’s this frustration that’s growing,” he said. “Settlements” is nothing more than a mindless mantra, like “cycle of violence” or “checkpoints” or the “sanctity of the al-Aqsa mosque,” for the pusillanimous West, while for Muslims they are the pretexts for practicing their traditional Jew-hatred and sacralized violence.
> 
> The history this reporting on the Temple Mount ignores is the great forbearance, and to be sure tactical pragmatism, of the Israelis in leaving the Temple Mount under the management of the Arabs; while a mosque created as a triumphalist boast over conquered Christians and Jews, in a city never mentioned in the Koran, is respected more by the West than its own empty cathedrals. Meanwhile the travails of Muslim immigrants are hyped and agonized over more than the crucifixions, torture, rape, and murder of Christians in the greatest mass persecution of Christians in history.
> 
> These are the wages of historical ignorance and the acceptance of a history made up by an adversary who can “thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened,” as Orwell says of the Party in _1984_. Our foreign policy has often been predicated on these lies, and the outcome has been predictable when lies are the foundation of policies––the abject failure we are witnessing in the region today.
> 
> 
> The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments


Funny American whatever you are,that tens of thousands of Palestinians work in surrounding Arabic Countries,as Doctors(including Israel),Medical Staff(including Israel),in the Bio-Tech Industries(including Israel),Medical Research(including Israel)'Structual Engineers,Building Engineers,School Administration and Principles and Teachers,I could go on and on for reams but your inaccurate post(as usual) is just that.Please note that the Palestinians have one of the highest matriculation rate to University Entrance..........so much for Arab Outcasts....it is actually quite the reverse.

I suggest you Stop bleating from your Anti-Semitic,Anti-Palestinian.......ZIONIST TERRORIST MANUAL...which we all know is a CROCK OF SHIT


----------



## theliq

docmauser1 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Front Page Mag, a hate mag by Horowitz, Zionist commie who turned right wing after the cold war. Good for starting fires, also the writer is also a Zionist Islam hater right winger.  Of course the Palestinians were living in Palestine, 70% arabs in Palestine at turn of the century.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
Click to expand...

Same as the Jews then in occupied Palestine


----------



## theliq

docmauser1 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Great Goose said:
> 
> 
> 
> It belongs to the people who were their 100 years ago. Period.
> 
> 
> 
> Well the Zionist do not consider them "people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Definitely something with them palistanians. They're transpeople, as in transgender, and they're shapeshifting too, when busted-up gunmen suddenly turn into women-children, or somesuch. So, who are they, indeed, if everything about them is provisional, conditional, indeterminate?
Click to expand...

Moron of the WEEK 15


----------



## theliq

Searcher44 said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> The " palestinians" are arab outcast from surrounding arab countries...
> 
> *The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments *
> * When lies are the foundation of policies. *
> October 16, 2015
> Bruce Thornton
> 
> Many of our policy debates and conflicts both domestic and foreign call on history to validate their positions. At home, crimes from the past like slavery and legal segregation are used to justify present policies ranging from racial set asides to housing regulations long after those institutions have been dismantled. Abroad, our jihadist enemies continually evoke the Crusades, “colonialism,” and “imperialism” as justifications for their violence. Yet the “history” used in such fashion is usually one-sided, simplistic, or downright false. Nor is the reason hard to find: as we read in _1984_, “Who controls the past . . . controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.” Bad history is a powerful instrument for gaining political power.
> 
> Nowhere is the abuse of history more rampant than in the Middle East. Since World War II all the problems whose origins lie in dysfunctional tribal and religious beliefs and behaviors have been laid at the feet of “colonialism” and “imperialism.” Western leftists––besotted both by a _marxiste_ hatred of liberal democracy, and by juvenile noble-savage Third-Worldism–– have legitimized this specious pretext, which now for many has become historical fact.
> 
> ...
> 
> Everything about this narrative is false. There is no such thing as a “Palestinian” people, an idea that arose only after the Six Day War of 1967. The bulk of the people mistakenly called “Palestinians” are ethnically, religiously, and linguistically indistinguishable from Arab Muslims in Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria. Numerous comments by Arab leaders before 1967 emphasized this fact. For example, Zouhair Muhsin, a member of the Executive Council of the PLO, said, “There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity… Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.”
> 
> ...
> 
> Finally, the charge of an “illegal occupation” of the “occupied West Bank” is a canard. Those territories, comprising the heartland of the ancient Jewish nations of Judea and Samaria, are _disputed_, their final disposition awaiting a peace treaty. There are no “borders” thought to define the mythical Palestinian nation. Those lines on the map are armistice lines, created after Israel defeated the armies of Syria, Jordan, and Egypt in 1967. By all rights as the victor, Israel could have incorporated the so-called West Bank into the state of Israel, on the same eternal wages of war that led to the American Southwest being incorporated into the U.S. after the 1846-48 war with Mexico, or of Prussian Germany into Poland after World War II. Indeed, since the territory in question was for thousands of years the homeland of the Jewish people, Israel would have had a _better_ case for restoring Judea and Samaria to Israel. Instead, in the Orwellian history created by Muslims and accepted by the West, the indigenous peoples are considered the “occupiers” of their own lands, and conquerors, invaders, and colonizers considered the disenfranchised victims.
> 
> The recent suicide-murders of random Israelis by Palestinians have been analyzed in terms that perpetuate this false history. Our intellectually challenged Secretary of State, John Kerry, referred to this false history when he said at Harvard, “There’s been a massive increase in settlement over the course of the last years and there’s an increase in the violence because there’s this frustration that’s growing,” he said. “Settlements” is nothing more than a mindless mantra, like “cycle of violence” or “checkpoints” or the “sanctity of the al-Aqsa mosque,” for the pusillanimous West, while for Muslims they are the pretexts for practicing their traditional Jew-hatred and sacralized violence.
> 
> The history this reporting on the Temple Mount ignores is the great forbearance, and to be sure tactical pragmatism, of the Israelis in leaving the Temple Mount under the management of the Arabs; while a mosque created as a triumphalist boast over conquered Christians and Jews, in a city never mentioned in the Koran, is respected more by the West than its own empty cathedrals. Meanwhile the travails of Muslim immigrants are hyped and agonized over more than the crucifixions, torture, rape, and murder of Christians in the greatest mass persecution of Christians in history.
> 
> These are the wages of historical ignorance and the acceptance of a history made up by an adversary who can “thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened,” as Orwell says of the Party in _1984_. Our foreign policy has often been predicated on these lies, and the outcome has been predictable when lies are the foundation of policies––the abject failure we are witnessing in the region today.
> 
> 
> The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He rails against  an "adversary who can “thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened,” as he “thrusts (his) hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened,”
> He is the very definition of a Pedant in any case;
> _pe·dan·ticpəˈdan(t)ik/
> adjective
> of or like a pedant.
> "many of the essays are long, dense, and too pedantic to hold great appeal"
> synonyms:    overscrupulous, scrupulous, precise, exact, perfectionist, punctilious, meticulous, fussy, fastidious, finicky; More_
> Scan a couple of his essays here (Bruce Thornton) and you'll see what I mean. I think this is one Professor of Classics and Humanities who should leave history to the historians. Even if he's right I find him too annoying to read, he's so....pedantic.
> Some here though will find his opinion of Donald Trump loud and clear and agreeable;
> _
> But we too, for now, seem to have a prophet. Whatever his flaws and weaknesses, Donald Trump has thrust the problems of lax immigration policies and weak enforcement of immigration laws back into the national conversation. Like Enoch Powell, politicians from both parties have tried to marginalize him. But in the age of the Internet, YouTube, and cable news, the citizens who agree with Trump can voice their approval more loudly than in Powell’s day. And they delight in the rough treatment he gives to immigration hacks like Univision’s Jorge Ramos, whom Trump tossed out of a news conference. Let’s just hope that a critical mass of people is listening, and that the Republicans embrace Trump’s warnings on illegal immigration instead of demonizing him._
> 
> Donald Trump a Prophet, imagine that.
Click to expand...

Donald Trump a Prophet,I think not......Crazy Baldhead most Certainly...steve

Play Loudy


----------



## American_Jihad

I see we hit nerve with the haters of Israel, that's a good thing... 
*"Jews for Bernie" Run by Anti-Israel Hater Who Defended Hamas*
April 6, 2016
Daniel Greenfield





  Bernie Sanders lied that Israel killed 10,000 "innocent people" in Gaza in its campaign against Hamas. So it's not surprising that Jews for Bernie, or at least its social media, is run by Daniel Sieradski, an OWSer and a notorious anti-Israel activist, who at one point apparently worked with J Street, and spread a viral attack defending Hamas terrorism against Israel.

During the Hamas attacks on Israel in 2014, his meme listed a phony collection of grievances and concluded that, "That's why Palestinians are fighting back."

Their "fighting back" had involved the kidnapping and murder of three Israeli teenagers.

Among the dead Israelis murdered by the "Palestinian" Muslim colonists who were "fighting back" against free Israeli electricity, food and medical care, was Daniel Tragerman, a 4-year-old boy.

...

  Jews have already rejected Bernie Sanders. He has repeatedly lost Jewish areas. New York polling shows that he loses among Jews to Hillary Clinton by 29% to 56%. If Trump runs against Sanders, Trump picks up 39% of the Jewish vote.

Bernie Sanders has rejected the Jewish community. And Jews have rejected Bernie Sanders.

If Bernie Sanders wants to make any headway with Jewish voters, he needs to actually reach out to the Jewish community, instead of to the anti-Israel and anti-Semitic left that exists only as a spiteful rejection of the Jewish people. If he really believes that Hamas is a terrorist organization, he needs to distance himself from anti-Israel bigots who make excuses for the genocidal Islamic terror group.

If he fails to do that, all he will have are the "Jews for Bernie" who hate Jews, Judaism and the Jewish state... but love Bernie.





"Jews for Bernie" Run by Anti-Israel Hater Who Defended Hamas


----------



## Challenger

American_Jihad said:


> I see we hit nerve with the haters of Israel, that's a good thing...
> *"Jews for Bernie" Run by Anti-Israel Hater Who Defended Hamas*
> April 6, 2016
> Daniel Greenfield
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bernie Sanders lied that Israel killed 10,000 "innocent people" in Gaza in its campaign against Hamas. So it's not surprising that Jews for Bernie, or at least its social media, is run by Daniel Sieradski, an OWSer and a notorious anti-Israel activist, who at one point apparently worked with J Street, and spread a viral attack defending Hamas terrorism against Israel.
> 
> During the Hamas attacks on Israel in 2014, his meme listed a phony collection of grievances and concluded that, "That's why Palestinians are fighting back."
> 
> Their "fighting back" had involved the kidnapping and murder of three Israeli teenagers.
> 
> Among the dead Israelis murdered by the "Palestinian" Muslim colonists who were "fighting back" against free Israeli electricity, food and medical care, was Daniel Tragerman, a 4-year-old boy.
> 
> ...
> 
> Jews have already rejected Bernie Sanders. He has repeatedly lost Jewish areas. New York polling shows that he loses among Jews to Hillary Clinton by 29% to 56%. If Trump runs against Sanders, Trump picks up 39% of the Jewish vote.
> 
> Bernie Sanders has rejected the Jewish community. And Jews have rejected Bernie Sanders.
> 
> If Bernie Sanders wants to make any headway with Jewish voters, he needs to actually reach out to the Jewish community, instead of to the anti-Israel and anti-Semitic left that exists only as a spiteful rejection of the Jewish people. If he really believes that Hamas is a terrorist organization, he needs to distance himself from anti-Israel bigots who make excuses for the genocidal Islamic terror group.
> 
> If he fails to do that, all he will have are the "Jews for Bernie" who hate Jews, Judaism and the Jewish state... but love Bernie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Jews for Bernie" Run by Anti-Israel Hater Who Defended Hamas



Daniel Sieradski? Never heard of him until you posted this, interesting individual,

"Sieradski has been described and as "a major figure of the Jewish Internet world and a cultural trailblazer with a diverse fan base" by The Forward. B'nai B'rith Magazine called him a "fresh faced iconoclast ... redefining American Judaism," and Tikkun said he was "fast becoming one of the most recognized Jewish literary voices on the Internet." The Jewish Standard described Sieradski as "a leader in a Jewish movement that is trying to a create a new image for Judaism to project to its youth," he was called "an innovator in Jewish new media" by Editor & Publisher. In 2008, The Jewish Week counted Sieradski among a group of 36 Jewish New Yorkers under the age of 36 *"who are combining mitzvot, leadership and passion in making the world a better place."* In 2010, he was *numbered among The Forward 50, an annual listing of the 50 most influential American Jews*. Haaretz has called him a *"professional thorn in the side of the American Jewish establishment.*" Daniel Sieradski - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Seems Sheldon Adelson clearly isn't a fan as he's already bought Hillary, but can't buy Bernie.


----------



## Challenger

American_Jihad said:


> I see *we* hit nerve with the haters of Israel, that's a good thing...



"We" hit a nerve? Hardly but it's interesting you let slip you are part of an organised group of Hasbarists, thanks.


----------



## docmauser1

theliq said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Front Page Mag, a hate mag by Horowitz, Zionist commie who turned right wing after the cold war. Good for starting fires, also the writer is also a Zionist Islam hater right winger.  Of course the Palestinians were living in Palestine, 70% arabs in Palestine at turn of the century.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Same as the Jews then in occupied Palestine
Click to expand...

Since when are arabs being referred to as "jews"?


----------



## docmauser1

theliq said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Great Goose said:
> 
> 
> 
> It belongs to the people who were their 100 years ago. Period.
> 
> 
> 
> Well the Zionist do not consider them "people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Definitely something with them palistanians. They're transpeople, as in transgender, and they're shapeshifting too, when busted-up gunmen suddenly turn into women-children, or somesuch. So, who are they, indeed, if everything about them is provisional, conditional, indeterminate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Moron of the WEEK 15
Click to expand...

Our honorable theliq is thereby advised not to sign his posts in this way, otherwise folks may really think he's one, of course.


----------



## montelatici

docmauser1 said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Front Page Mag, a hate mag by Horowitz, Zionist commie who turned right wing after the cold war. Good for starting fires, also the writer is also a Zionist Islam hater right winger.  Of course the Palestinians were living in Palestine, 70% arabs in Palestine at turn of the century.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Same as the Jews then in occupied Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since when are arabs being referred to as "jews"?
Click to expand...



*Reflections By An*
*ARAB JEW*
*by Ella Habiba Shohat

Irvi Nasawi: Sephardic & Middle Eastern Cultures
*
Reflections By An Arab Jew - Ella Shohat


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Front Page Mag, a hate mag by Horowitz, Zionist commie who turned right wing after the cold war. Good for starting fires, also the writer is also a Zionist Islam hater right winger.  Of course the Palestinians were living in Palestine, 70% arabs in Palestine at turn of the century.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Same as the Jews then in occupied Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since when are arabs being referred to as "jews"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reflections By An *Arab Jew*
> www.bintjbeil.com/E/*occupation*/arab_jew.html ...
Click to expand...

[yawn] Spare us that "Multicultural Feminism in a Transnational Age" women's studies crackpot.


----------



## Phoenall

Challenger said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Religion of Colonialism*
> * Why you can't "colonize" Palestine. *
> April 5, 2016
> Daniel Greenfield
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At Israeli Apartheid Week, campus haters claim to be fighting “colonialism” by fighting Jews. Columbia University’s Center for Palestine Studies, dedicated to a country that doesn’t exist and which has produced nothing worth studying except terrorism, features diatribes such as Abdul Rahim al-Shaikh’s Palestine Re-Covered: Reading a Settler Colonial Landscape”. This word salad is a toxic stew of historical revisionism being used to justify the Muslim settler colonization of the indigenous Jewish population.
> 
> Colonialism is CPS’ favorite word. When Israeli social workers remove abused children from Muslim homes, that’s colonialism. Israeli farms are a form of environmental “colonialism”. When non-profits aren’t representative enough, it’s the fault of the “Israeli settler-colonial regime.”  If it rains on Thursday, it’s caused by “colonialism,” preferably of the “Israeli Zionist colonial settler regime” variety.
> 
> But you can’t colonize colonizers. The Muslim population in Israel is a foreign colonist population. The indigenous Jewish population can resettle its own country, but it can’t colonize it.
> 
> Not even if you accuse Jews of being a “super-double-secret settler colonial regime.”
> 
> Muslims invaded, conquered and settled Israel. They forced their language and laws on the population. That's the definition of colonialism. You can't colonize and then complain that you're being colonized when the natives take back the power that you stole from them.
> 
> There are Muslims in Israel for the same reason that there are Muslims in India. They are the remnants of a Muslim colonial regime that displaced and oppressed the indigenous non-Muslim population.
> 
> There are no serious historical arguments to be made against any of this.
> 
> The Muslim conquests and invasions are well-documented. The Muslim settlements fit every historical template of colonialism complete with importing a foreign population and social system that was imposed on the native population. Until they began losing wars to the indigenous Jewish population, the Muslim settlers were not ashamed of their colonial past, they gloried in it. Their historical legacy was based on seizing indigenous sites, appropriating them and renaming them after the new conquerors.
> 
> ...
> 
> Islamic colonialism has always been defeated, whether at the Gates of Vienna or in the Sinai Desert. Its colonial fantasies are false and will be defeated as many times as it takes, whether in the form of Palestine or ISIS.
> 
> The Religion of Colonialism
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good grief! Standard Zionist Hasbara re-write of events that pays no attention to actual historical fact and fails to substantiate any of the assertions made in the blog. Still what else can you expect from someone working for the David Horowitz "Freedom" Centre? Oh, yes, pure bullshit.
> 
> This must be the latest play that the Zionist Hasbara machine has come up with:
> 
> "This word salad is a toxic stew of historical revisionism being used to justify the Muslim settler colonization of the indigenous Jewish population."
> 
> To try to convince the gullable that white European colonists are somehow "indigenous"  to a land of "brown" people.
Click to expand...








 GOOD GRIEF rat boy resorting to islamonazi and neo Marxist anti Jew propaganda again.


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> The " palestinians" are arab outcast from surrounding arab countries...
> 
> *The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments *
> * When lies are the foundation of policies. *
> October 16, 2015
> Bruce Thornton
> 
> Many of our policy debates and conflicts both domestic and foreign call on history to validate their positions. At home, crimes from the past like slavery and legal segregation are used to justify present policies ranging from racial set asides to housing regulations long after those institutions have been dismantled. Abroad, our jihadist enemies continually evoke the Crusades, “colonialism,” and “imperialism” as justifications for their violence. Yet the “history” used in such fashion is usually one-sided, simplistic, or downright false. Nor is the reason hard to find: as we read in _1984_, “Who controls the past . . . controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.” Bad history is a powerful instrument for gaining political power.
> 
> Nowhere is the abuse of history more rampant than in the Middle East. Since World War II all the problems whose origins lie in dysfunctional tribal and religious beliefs and behaviors have been laid at the feet of “colonialism” and “imperialism.” Western leftists––besotted both by a _marxiste_ hatred of liberal democracy, and by juvenile noble-savage Third-Worldism–– have legitimized this specious pretext, which now for many has become historical fact.
> 
> ...
> 
> Everything about this narrative is false. There is no such thing as a “Palestinian” people, an idea that arose only after the Six Day War of 1967. The bulk of the people mistakenly called “Palestinians” are ethnically, religiously, and linguistically indistinguishable from Arab Muslims in Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria. Numerous comments by Arab leaders before 1967 emphasized this fact. For example, Zouhair Muhsin, a member of the Executive Council of the PLO, said, “There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity… Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.”
> 
> ...
> 
> Finally, the charge of an “illegal occupation” of the “occupied West Bank” is a canard. Those territories, comprising the heartland of the ancient Jewish nations of Judea and Samaria, are _disputed_, their final disposition awaiting a peace treaty. There are no “borders” thought to define the mythical Palestinian nation. Those lines on the map are armistice lines, created after Israel defeated the armies of Syria, Jordan, and Egypt in 1967. By all rights as the victor, Israel could have incorporated the so-called West Bank into the state of Israel, on the same eternal wages of war that led to the American Southwest being incorporated into the U.S. after the 1846-48 war with Mexico, or of Prussian Germany into Poland after World War II. Indeed, since the territory in question was for thousands of years the homeland of the Jewish people, Israel would have had a _better_ case for restoring Judea and Samaria to Israel. Instead, in the Orwellian history created by Muslims and accepted by the West, the indigenous peoples are considered the “occupiers” of their own lands, and conquerors, invaders, and colonizers considered the disenfranchised victims.
> 
> The recent suicide-murders of random Israelis by Palestinians have been analyzed in terms that perpetuate this false history. Our intellectually challenged Secretary of State, John Kerry, referred to this false history when he said at Harvard, “There’s been a massive increase in settlement over the course of the last years and there’s an increase in the violence because there’s this frustration that’s growing,” he said. “Settlements” is nothing more than a mindless mantra, like “cycle of violence” or “checkpoints” or the “sanctity of the al-Aqsa mosque,” for the pusillanimous West, while for Muslims they are the pretexts for practicing their traditional Jew-hatred and sacralized violence.
> 
> The history this reporting on the Temple Mount ignores is the great forbearance, and to be sure tactical pragmatism, of the Israelis in leaving the Temple Mount under the management of the Arabs; while a mosque created as a triumphalist boast over conquered Christians and Jews, in a city never mentioned in the Koran, is respected more by the West than its own empty cathedrals. Meanwhile the travails of Muslim immigrants are hyped and agonized over more than the crucifixions, torture, rape, and murder of Christians in the greatest mass persecution of Christians in history.
> 
> These are the wages of historical ignorance and the acceptance of a history made up by an adversary who can “thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened,” as Orwell says of the Party in _1984_. Our foreign policy has often been predicated on these lies, and the outcome has been predictable when lies are the foundation of policies––the abject failure we are witnessing in the region today.
> 
> 
> The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments
> 
> 
> 
> Funny American whatever you are,that tens of thousands of Palestinians work in surrounding Arabic Countries,as Doctors(including Israel),Medical Staff(including Israel),in the Bio-Tech Industries(including Israel),Medical Research(including Israel)'Structual Engineers,Building Engineers,School Administration and Principles and Teachers,I could go on and on for reams but your inaccurate post(as usual) is just that.Please note that the Palestinians have one of the highest matriculation rate to University Entrance..........so much for Arab Outcasts....it is actually quite the reverse.
> 
> I suggest you Stop bleating from your Anti-Semitic,Anti-Palestinian.......ZIONIST TERRORIST MANUAL...which we all know is a CROCK OF SHIT
Click to expand...








 Do you happen to have a copy of this alleged Zionist terrorist manual, if you do lift the sticky label and see that it is really the islamonazi terrorist manual better known as the koran


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Front Page Mag, a hate mag by Horowitz, Zionist commie who turned right wing after the cold war. Good for starting fires, also the writer is also a Zionist Islam hater right winger.  Of course the Palestinians were living in Palestine, 70% arabs in Palestine at turn of the century.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Same as the Jews then in occupied Palestine
Click to expand...







 Or the criminals that invaded and occupied Australia, only much worse as they had no hope of getting out alive.


----------



## American_Jihad

Challenger said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see *we* hit nerve with the haters of Israel, that's a good thing...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "We" hit a nerve? Hardly but it's interesting you let slip you are part of an organised group of Hasbarists, thanks.
Click to expand...

If it didn't bother you why the separate post, you'll never learn, moth to flame...


----------



## theliq

Phoenall said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Front Page Mag, a hate mag by Horowitz, Zionist commie who turned right wing after the cold war. Good for starting fires, also the writer is also a Zionist Islam hater right winger.  Of course the Palestinians were living in Palestine, 70% arabs in Palestine at turn of the century.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Same as the Jews then in occupied Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or the criminals that invaded and occupied Australia, only much worse as they had no hope of getting out alive.
Click to expand...

Moron is as Moron SAYS


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## theliq

docmauser1 said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Front Page Mag, a hate mag by Horowitz, Zionist commie who turned right wing after the cold war. Good for starting fires, also the writer is also a Zionist Islam hater right winger.  Of course the Palestinians were living in Palestine, 70% arabs in Palestine at turn of the century.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Same as the Jews then in occupied Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since when are arabs being referred to as "jews"?
Click to expand...

In Babylon Jews were part Arab,Dumpkoff


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Front Page Mag, a hate mag by Horowitz, Zionist commie who turned right wing after the cold war. Good for starting fires, also the writer is also a Zionist Islam hater right winger.  Of course the Palestinians were living in Palestine, 70% arabs in Palestine at turn of the century.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Same as the Jews then in occupied Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or the criminals that invaded and occupied Australia, only much worse as they had no hope of getting out alive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Moron is as Moron SAYS
Click to expand...







they said that about them as well


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## Phoenall

theliq said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Front Page Mag, a hate mag by Horowitz, Zionist commie who turned right wing after the cold war. Good for starting fires, also the writer is also a Zionist Islam hater right winger.  Of course the Palestinians were living in Palestine, 70% arabs in Palestine at turn of the century.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Same as the Jews then in occupied Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since when are arabs being referred to as "jews"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In Babylon Jews were part Arab,Dumpkoff
Click to expand...






Who told you that the travelling imam or your Ober gruppen Fuhrer


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## Challenger

American_Jihad said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see *we* hit nerve with the haters of Israel, that's a good thing...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "We" hit a nerve? Hardly but it's interesting you let slip you are part of an organised group of Hasbarists, thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If it didn't bother you why the separate post, you'll never learn, moth to flame...
Click to expand...


I didn't notice in the first read through, but thought it useful to highlight your slip up, just so people know who they're dealing with.


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## Phoenall

Challenger said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see *we* hit nerve with the haters of Israel, that's a good thing...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "We" hit a nerve? Hardly but it's interesting you let slip you are part of an organised group of Hasbarists, thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If it didn't bother you why the separate post, you'll never learn, moth to flame...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't notice in the first read through, but thought it useful to highlight your slip up, just so people know who they're dealing with.
Click to expand...








 SHOWS JUST HOW DESPERATE YOU ARE TO GAIN SOME CREDABILITY WHEN YOU HAVE TO PICK UP ON MISTAKES OF GRAMMAR, SPELLING OR SYNTAX


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## American_Jihad

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see *we* hit nerve with the haters of Israel, that's a good thing...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "We" hit a nerve? Hardly but it's interesting you let slip you are part of an organised group of Hasbarists, thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If it didn't bother you why the separate post, you'll never learn, moth to flame...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't notice in the first read through, but thought it useful to highlight your slip up, just so people know who they're dealing with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SHOWS JUST HOW DESPERATE YOU ARE TO GAIN SOME CREDABILITY WHEN YOU HAVE TO PICK UP ON MISTAKES OF GRAMMAR, SPELLING OR SYNTAX
Click to expand...

It's what they do when they don't have anything to say, typical libtart...


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## American_Jihad

That's why the europeeons are getting their just deserts...
*UN-Funded NGO Honors Murderers with Tree Planting *
* Celebrating the killers of Jews with funding from European governments. *
April 11, 2016
Nan Jacques Zilberdik





*Reprinted from Palestinian Media Watch. *

On Friday, a Palestinian NGO, Union of Agricultural Work Committees, held a tree planting ceremony honoring 209 "Martyrs of the popular uprising." Among these "Martyrs" are numerous Palestinian terrorists and murderers, who have murdered and attempted to murder Israelis during the wave of terror attacks that since September 2015 has included numerous stabbings, shootings, and car ramming attacks, killing 34 and wounding over 400 Israelis.

Several foreign governments and international organizations, including UNRWA, UNDP, the governments of Australia, Spain, Netherlands and Japan, as well as numerous NGOs are listed as donors of the Union of Agricultural Work Committees. (See full list below) [UAWC website, list of "doners" (misspelled), accessed April 4, 2016]

Their funding of the UAWC implicates all these institutions and organizations in the act of honoring murderers of Israelis. 

Yesterday, Palestinian Media Watch exposed a similar case of UN bodies and European governments honoring murderers by way of the organizations they support. UNDP, UNFPA, FAO, the Spanish government, the Dutch government and European NGOs all support the Palestinian NGO Rural Women's Development Society that organized a chain of readers in honor of terrorist Baha Alyan, who murdered 3. 

Among the "Martyrs" honored with an olive tree, and specifically mentioned in the report in the official Palestinian Authority daily, were murderer Muhannad Halabi, who stabbed 2 Israeli civilians to death and wounded the wife and 2-year-old baby of one of them in the Old City of Jerusalem in October 2015, and Fadi Alloun who stabbed and wounded a 15-year-old Israeli. 

A representative of the UAWC stated that the event was held to "convey the message that we will hold on to the land, and that we will not forget the Martyrs who sacrificed [their lives].'"

In addition to the UN institutions and foreign governments, numerous international NGOs are listed as supporting the UAWC. Some of them have featured in PMW exposures in the past:

• NDC - NGO Development Center - PMW exposed their funding of a PA TV programs for youth, which featured terror glorification and demonization of Israelis. 

• World Vision - Australian Christian charity - funded a youth center named after a terrorist.

• Norwegian People's Aid - funded exhibit erasing Israel from maps. 

...

UN-Funded NGO Honors Murderers with Tree Planting

I'm surprised these fuckers aren't planting people...


----------



## P F Tinmore

American_Jihad said:


> That's why the europeeons are getting their just deserts...
> *UN-Funded NGO Honors Murderers with Tree Planting *
> * Celebrating the killers of Jews with funding from European governments. *
> April 11, 2016
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Reprinted from Palestinian Media Watch. *
> 
> On Friday, a Palestinian NGO, Union of Agricultural Work Committees, held a tree planting ceremony honoring 209 "Martyrs of the popular uprising." Among these "Martyrs" are numerous Palestinian terrorists and murderers, who have murdered and attempted to murder Israelis during the wave of terror attacks that since September 2015 has included numerous stabbings, shootings, and car ramming attacks, killing 34 and wounding over 400 Israelis.
> 
> Several foreign governments and international organizations, including UNRWA, UNDP, the governments of Australia, Spain, Netherlands and Japan, as well as numerous NGOs are listed as donors of the Union of Agricultural Work Committees. (See full list below) [UAWC website, list of "doners" (misspelled), accessed April 4, 2016]
> 
> Their funding of the UAWC implicates all these institutions and organizations in the act of honoring murderers of Israelis.
> 
> Yesterday, Palestinian Media Watch exposed a similar case of UN bodies and European governments honoring murderers by way of the organizations they support. UNDP, UNFPA, FAO, the Spanish government, the Dutch government and European NGOs all support the Palestinian NGO Rural Women's Development Society that organized a chain of readers in honor of terrorist Baha Alyan, who murdered 3.
> 
> Among the "Martyrs" honored with an olive tree, and specifically mentioned in the report in the official Palestinian Authority daily, were murderer Muhannad Halabi, who stabbed 2 Israeli civilians to death and wounded the wife and 2-year-old baby of one of them in the Old City of Jerusalem in October 2015, and Fadi Alloun who stabbed and wounded a 15-year-old Israeli.
> 
> A representative of the UAWC stated that the event was held to "convey the message that we will hold on to the land, and that we will not forget the Martyrs who sacrificed [their lives].'"
> 
> In addition to the UN institutions and foreign governments, numerous international NGOs are listed as supporting the UAWC. Some of them have featured in PMW exposures in the past:
> 
> • NDC - NGO Development Center - PMW exposed their funding of a PA TV programs for youth, which featured terror glorification and demonization of Israelis.
> 
> • World Vision - Australian Christian charity - funded a youth center named after a terrorist.
> 
> • Norwegian People's Aid - funded exhibit erasing Israel from maps.
> 
> ...
> 
> UN-Funded NGO Honors Murderers with Tree Planting
> 
> I'm surprised these fuckers aren't planting people...


Funny.






Maps are drawings of borders. The armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial borders so they are not included. This map is geographically correct.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's why the europeeons are getting their just deserts...
> *UN-Funded NGO Honors Murderers with Tree Planting *
> * Celebrating the killers of Jews with funding from European governments. *
> April 11, 2016
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Reprinted from Palestinian Media Watch. *
> 
> On Friday, a Palestinian NGO, Union of Agricultural Work Committees, held a tree planting ceremony honoring 209 "Martyrs of the popular uprising." Among these "Martyrs" are numerous Palestinian terrorists and murderers, who have murdered and attempted to murder Israelis during the wave of terror attacks that since September 2015 has included numerous stabbings, shootings, and car ramming attacks, killing 34 and wounding over 400 Israelis.
> 
> Several foreign governments and international organizations, including UNRWA, UNDP, the governments of Australia, Spain, Netherlands and Japan, as well as numerous NGOs are listed as donors of the Union of Agricultural Work Committees. (See full list below) [UAWC website, list of "doners" (misspelled), accessed April 4, 2016]
> 
> Their funding of the UAWC implicates all these institutions and organizations in the act of honoring murderers of Israelis.
> 
> Yesterday, Palestinian Media Watch exposed a similar case of UN bodies and European governments honoring murderers by way of the organizations they support. UNDP, UNFPA, FAO, the Spanish government, the Dutch government and European NGOs all support the Palestinian NGO Rural Women's Development Society that organized a chain of readers in honor of terrorist Baha Alyan, who murdered 3.
> 
> Among the "Martyrs" honored with an olive tree, and specifically mentioned in the report in the official Palestinian Authority daily, were murderer Muhannad Halabi, who stabbed 2 Israeli civilians to death and wounded the wife and 2-year-old baby of one of them in the Old City of Jerusalem in October 2015, and Fadi Alloun who stabbed and wounded a 15-year-old Israeli.
> 
> A representative of the UAWC stated that the event was held to "convey the message that we will hold on to the land, and that we will not forget the Martyrs who sacrificed [their lives].'"
> 
> In addition to the UN institutions and foreign governments, numerous international NGOs are listed as supporting the UAWC. Some of them have featured in PMW exposures in the past:
> 
> • NDC - NGO Development Center - PMW exposed their funding of a PA TV programs for youth, which featured terror glorification and demonization of Israelis.
> 
> • World Vision - Australian Christian charity - funded a youth center named after a terrorist.
> 
> • Norwegian People's Aid - funded exhibit erasing Israel from maps.
> 
> ...
> 
> UN-Funded NGO Honors Murderers with Tree Planting
> 
> I'm surprised these fuckers aren't planting people...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maps are drawings of borders. The armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial borders so they are not included. This map is geographically correct.
Click to expand...






 Yep and clearly shows Israel as the part in brown


----------



## American_Jihad

*Let’s Create a Real Palestinian State*
* It’s not a nightmare if you can make it come true. *
April 14, 2016
Daniel Greenfield





  A Palestinian state has never existed during any period in human history. Let’s change that.

The United States has spent billions of dollars trying to create a Palestinian state. It’s time that we finally got our money’s worth. We’ve been putting money in the broken Palestinian slot machine in the metaphorical Palestinian casino (the real one was shot up when terrorists turned it into a base) for decades. It’s time to finally get our Palestinian jackpot. But to make it happen, we need to be realistic.

Forget the peace process. Forget negotiations. They’ve never worked before. They’re not going to now.

And there’s nothing to negotiate anyway.

There are almost a million Jews living on territory claimed by the PLO. Removing them would be the single greatest act of ethnic cleansing against an indigenous population today. It would also be impossible. But the same people who insist that the United States, a country of 318 million, can’t deport 11 million illegal aliens, think that Israel will somehow deport 1/8th of its own population if they just chant loudly enough about “occupation” outside Jewish businesses in London or San Francisco.

Ethnically cleansing 8,000 Jews from Gaza/Gush Katif led to nationwide civil disobedience, riots and, eventually, the fall of a political party and three straight terms for Prime Minister Netanyahu. Now imagine trying to deport 800,000 people from their homes simply because they’re Jewish.

And it wouldn’t just be the Jews alone being rounded up into trucks, buses and maybe boxcars.

52 percent of Arabs in East Jerusalem would rather be Israeli citizens than live under the PLO. Are we support to deport 100,000 Arabs from Jerusalem to make way for this imaginary “Palestinian” state?

How much ethnic cleansing do we have to do to make the Islamic colonial fantasy of Palestine real?

It’s not going to happen.

Let’s create a real Palestinian state instead. And I don’t mean the PLO’s President for Life Mahmoud Abbas going down to the UN to give another speech. Abbas is on his 11th year of a 4-year term.  The US spent $4.5 billion promoting “Palestinian democracy” and the last PLO election was ten years ago.

Hamas won. It would win today all over again.

Current polling shows that 2/3 of “Palestinians” want Abbas to resign. Abbas has no political authority to form a Palestinian state, a Palestinian shawarma stand or a Palestinian anything.

If there’s going to be a Palestinian state, it has to be based on the will of the people. That means it will be a Hamas state. A Palestinian state that is not based on the will of its people has no legitimacy. The only legitimate Palestinian state is therefore a Hamas terror state.

And that’s the only kind of state you can have when 2/3 of “Palestinians” support stabbing Israeli civilians, 89% want to live under an Islamic State run by Sharia law, 84% want to stone adulterers to death and 66% support killing any Muslim who leaves Islam.

Only an Islamic terror state can truly represent the homicidal aspirations of the Palestinian people.

...

Let’s Create a Real Palestinian State


----------



## Boston1

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Religion of Colonialism*
> * Why you can't "colonize" Palestine. *
> April 5, 2016
> Daniel Greenfield
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At Israeli Apartheid Week, campus haters claim to be fighting “colonialism” by fighting Jews. Columbia University’s Center for Palestine Studies, dedicated to a country that doesn’t exist and which has produced nothing worth studying except terrorism, features diatribes such as Abdul Rahim al-Shaikh’s Palestine Re-Covered: Reading a Settler Colonial Landscape”. This word salad is a toxic stew of historical revisionism being used to justify the Muslim settler colonization of the indigenous Jewish population.
> 
> Colonialism is CPS’ favorite word. When Israeli social workers remove abused children from Muslim homes, that’s colonialism. Israeli farms are a form of environmental “colonialism”. When non-profits aren’t representative enough, it’s the fault of the “Israeli settler-colonial regime.”  If it rains on Thursday, it’s caused by “colonialism,” preferably of the “Israeli Zionist colonial settler regime” variety.
> 
> But you can’t colonize colonizers. The Muslim population in Israel is a foreign colonist population. The indigenous Jewish population can resettle its own country, but it can’t colonize it.
> 
> Not even if you accuse Jews of being a “super-double-secret settler colonial regime.”
> 
> Muslims invaded, conquered and settled Israel. They forced their language and laws on the population. That's the definition of colonialism. You can't colonize and then complain that you're being colonized when the natives take back the power that you stole from them.
> 
> There are Muslims in Israel for the same reason that there are Muslims in India. They are the remnants of a Muslim colonial regime that displaced and oppressed the indigenous non-Muslim population.
> 
> There are no serious historical arguments to be made against any of this.
> 
> The Muslim conquests and invasions are well-documented. The Muslim settlements fit every historical template of colonialism complete with importing a foreign population and social system that was imposed on the native population. Until they began losing wars to the indigenous Jewish population, the Muslim settlers were not ashamed of their colonial past, they gloried in it. Their historical legacy was based on seizing indigenous sites, appropriating them and renaming them after the new conquerors.
> 
> ...
> 
> Islamic colonialism has always been defeated, whether at the Gates of Vienna or in the Sinai Desert. Its colonial fantasies are false and will be defeated as many times as it takes, whether in the form of Palestine or ISIS.
> 
> The Religion of Colonialism
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good grief! Standard Zionist Hasbara re-write of events that pays no attention to actual historical fact and fails to substantiate any of the assertions made in the blog. Still what else can you expect from someone working for the David Horowitz "Freedom" Centre? Oh, yes, pure bullshit.
> 
> This must be the latest play that the Zionist Hasbara machine has come up with:
> 
> "This word salad is a toxic stew of historical revisionism being used to justify the Muslim settler colonization of the indigenous Jewish population."
> 
> To try to convince the gullable that white European colonists are somehow "indigenous"  to a land of "brown" people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GOOD GRIEF rat boy resorting to islamonazi and neo Marxist anti Jew propaganda again.
Click to expand...


Its all they've got ;--)


----------



## docmauser1

theliq said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Front Page Mag, a hate mag by Horowitz, Zionist commie who turned right wing after the cold war. Good for starting fires, also the writer is also a Zionist Islam hater right winger.  Of course the Palestinians were living in Palestine, 70% arabs in Palestine at turn of the century.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Same as the Jews then in occupied Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since when are arabs being referred to as "jews"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In Babylon Jews were part Arab,Dumpkoff
Click to expand...

[yawn] There were no "arabs" that time, of course.


----------



## montelatici

docmauser1 said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Front Page Mag, a hate mag by Horowitz, Zionist commie who turned right wing after the cold war. Good for starting fires, also the writer is also a Zionist Islam hater right winger.  Of course the Palestinians were living in Palestine, 70% arabs in Palestine at turn of the century.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Same as the Jews then in occupied Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since when are arabs being referred to as "jews"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In Babylon Jews were part Arab,Dumpkoff
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> [yawn] There were no "arabs" that time, of course.
Click to expand...


Who do you think the Sabaeans and all the other peoples that spoke Arabic in 3000 BC and earlier?  Norwegians? 

Before the Europeans invaded Israel there were Christian Arabs, Jewish Arabs and Muslim Arabs.  Arab denotes a common culture and language.  Jewish, Christian and Muslim Arabs of the Maghreb eat couscous and hummus, for example. 

Arabian denotes people from the Arabian peninsula. Being a desert, there were never very many of them.

Historicizing the Concept of Arab Jews in the Maghrib on JSTOR


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
> 
> 
> 
> Same as the Jews then in occupied Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since when are arabs being referred to as "jews"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In Babylon Jews were part Arab,Dumpkoff
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> [yawn] There were no "arabs" that time, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who do you think the Sabaeans and all the other peoples that spoke Arabic in 3000 BC and earlier?  Norwegians?
Click to expand...

Hopefully, because sumerian has no known (so far) relatives.


montelatici said:


> Before the Europeans invaded Israel there were Christian Arabs, Jewish Arabs and Muslim Arabs....


And norwegian arabs, evidently. Any arab arabs, bth.?


----------



## Boston1

The term palestinian was invented at the time the only people in this area where judaic people. 

So I guess palestinians are all judaic in nature ;--)


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
> 
> 
> 
> Same as the Jews then in occupied Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since when are arabs being referred to as "jews"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In Babylon Jews were part Arab,Dumpkoff
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> [yawn] There were no "arabs" that time, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who do you think the Sabaeans and all the other peoples that spoke Arabic in 3000 BC and earlier?  Norwegians?
> 
> Before the Europeans invaded Israel there were Christian Arabs, Jewish Arabs and Muslim Arabs.  Arab denotes a common culture and language.  Jewish, Christian and Muslim Arabs of the Maghreb eat couscous and hummus, for example.
> 
> Arabian denotes people from the Arabian peninsula. Being a desert, there were never very many of them.
> 
> Historicizing the Concept of Arab Jews in the Maghrib on JSTOR
Click to expand...








 CAN YOU PROVE THIS ?


----------



## American_Jihad

*Muslim Terrorist Stayed "Single" for the 72 Virgins in Paradise*
April 18, 2016
Daniel Greenfield






  Men are from Mars. Women are from Venus. Muslim terrorists are from a whole other planet.

Ibrahim Barda'aya, a 54-year-old single resident of al-Aroub to the north of Hevron in Judea, was recently shot dead by security forces as he attempted to attack armed with an ax.

...

Either that or he was gay. I'm not sure how Allah is supposed to deal with that one when it comes to dispensing virgins from his imaginary brothel. But here's what Ibrahim found so enormously appealing that he forsook all female company on earth.

...

Even Muslim heaven is basically an ISIS rape camp.

Muslim Terrorist Stayed "Single" for the 72 Virgins in Paradise


----------



## Phoenall

American_Jihad said:


> *Muslim Terrorist Stayed "Single" for the 72 Virgins in Paradise*
> April 18, 2016
> Daniel Greenfield
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Men are from Mars. Women are from Venus. Muslim terrorists are from a whole other planet.
> 
> Ibrahim Barda'aya, a 54-year-old single resident of al-Aroub to the north of Hevron in Judea, was recently shot dead by security forces as he attempted to attack armed with an ax.
> 
> ...
> 
> Either that or he was gay. I'm not sure how Allah is supposed to deal with that one when it comes to dispensing virgins from his imaginary brothel. But here's what Ibrahim found so enormously appealing that he forsook all female company on earth.
> 
> ...
> 
> Even Muslim heaven is basically an ISIS rape camp.
> 
> Muslim Terrorist Stayed "Single" for the 72 Virgins in Paradise









 It was a mistake that was never rectified, the original words were 72 raisins but the scribe writing this down squished a fly and the dead body altered the meaning from raisins to virgins.  What is a squiggle between Islamic terrorist friends


----------



## American_Jihad

*Bus Bombing in Jerusalem *
* A message of "peace" from the Palestinians as the UN Security Council discusses the Mideast conflict. *
April 19, 2016
Joseph Klein





  In the midst of the United Nations Security Council's April 18th quarterly "open debate" on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Israel's UN Ambassador Danny Danon interrupted the proceedings with news of an explosion on a Jerusalem bus. The explosion was subsequently confirmed by police to have been caused by a terrorist bomb.  At least 21 people were injured in the attack. Debkafile cited medical sources in reporting that “nuts and bolts were found in the bodies of some of the wounded.” The Palestinian terrorist himself, a resident of East Jerusalem, did not die during his bombing, but was severely wounded.

Not surprisingly, Hamas praised the attack, although it did not immediately claim responsibility for it: “Hamas welcomes the Jerusalem operation, and considers it a natural reaction to Israeli crimes, especially field executions and the desecration of the Al-Aqsa Mosque.”  

Meanwhile, Hamas has been busy diverting materials intended for reconstruction of homes in Gaza to build more terror tunnels. On the same day as the Jerusalem bus bombing attack, the Israeli Defense Force announced that it had discovered a tunnel extending more than two kilometers from Gaza underneath an Israeli community near the Gaza border. According to a Debkafile report, the tunnel “appeared to be wide enough to enable Hamas fighters to infiltrate into Israel and return with Israeli prisoners.”

The Jerusalem district police commander, Deputy Commisioner Yoram Halevy, warned that "a large wave of attacks is ahead of us."

...

  The Palestinian teenager may be a “child,” but he is a terrorist who deserves no mercy. His victim’s teenage daughter, Renana Meir, had to witness her mother’s brutal death. She may be traumatized for the rest of her life.

At the opening of the Security Council meeting, Renana and her father Natan noted that “It is difficult to express in words the deep pain and unbearable longing.  This sense of loss breaks our heart and our soul.  With broken hearts we ask the international community for help.  We hear those who say that terror is a result of frustration, and we ask – is there anything more frustrating than what we have endured?”

Mansour could not even muster a modicum of humanity to express his condolences and regret for what a Palestinian terrorist “child” had done in taking away an innocent mother from her innocent children. His silence speaks volumes about the Palestinians’ culture of hate and violence against Jews.

Bus Bombing in Jerusalem


----------



## Phoenall

American_Jihad said:


> *Bus Bombing in Jerusalem *
> * A message of "peace" from the Palestinians as the UN Security Council discusses the Mideast conflict. *
> April 19, 2016
> Joseph Klein
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the midst of the United Nations Security Council's April 18th quarterly "open debate" on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Israel's UN Ambassador Danny Danon interrupted the proceedings with news of an explosion on a Jerusalem bus. The explosion was subsequently confirmed by police to have been caused by a terrorist bomb.  At least 21 people were injured in the attack. Debkafile cited medical sources in reporting that “nuts and bolts were found in the bodies of some of the wounded.” The Palestinian terrorist himself, a resident of East Jerusalem, did not die during his bombing, but was severely wounded.
> 
> Not surprisingly, Hamas praised the attack, although it did not immediately claim responsibility for it: “Hamas welcomes the Jerusalem operation, and considers it a natural reaction to Israeli crimes, especially field executions and the desecration of the Al-Aqsa Mosque.”
> 
> Meanwhile, Hamas has been busy diverting materials intended for reconstruction of homes in Gaza to build more terror tunnels. On the same day as the Jerusalem bus bombing attack, the Israeli Defense Force announced that it had discovered a tunnel extending more than two kilometers from Gaza underneath an Israeli community near the Gaza border. According to a Debkafile report, the tunnel “appeared to be wide enough to enable Hamas fighters to infiltrate into Israel and return with Israeli prisoners.”
> 
> The Jerusalem district police commander, Deputy Commisioner Yoram Halevy, warned that "a large wave of attacks is ahead of us."
> 
> ...
> 
> The Palestinian teenager may be a “child,” but he is a terrorist who deserves no mercy. His victim’s teenage daughter, Renana Meir, had to witness her mother’s brutal death. She may be traumatized for the rest of her life.
> 
> At the opening of the Security Council meeting, Renana and her father Natan noted that “It is difficult to express in words the deep pain and unbearable longing.  This sense of loss breaks our heart and our soul.  With broken hearts we ask the international community for help.  We hear those who say that terror is a result of frustration, and we ask – is there anything more frustrating than what we have endured?”
> 
> Mansour could not even muster a modicum of humanity to express his condolences and regret for what a Palestinian terrorist “child” had done in taking away an innocent mother from her innocent children. His silence speaks volumes about the Palestinians’ culture of hate and violence against Jews.
> 
> Bus Bombing in Jerusalem








Time for a non violent approach to the situation, close the Temple mount to all muslims for a period of one month. Have it be known anyone seen up there without due cause will be shot for terrorist activity.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Israel Gains the Upper Hand over Hamas in Gaza’s Subterranean War
 The Israeli army's new technologies and methods for combatting the terror group. 
May 13, 2016
Ari Lieberman



*

As Israel nears its 68th year of independence, Israelis can take pride in the fact that they have much to celebrate. Unemployment is low and standards of living are comparable to those of affluent Western nations. Israel’s citizens have transformed a semi-arid land into an oasis. Its innovative and resourceful people have turned the nation into a technology giant. Water shortages that plagued the nation during its formative years are now a thing of the past thanks to cost-effective desalinization plants and other innovative water technologies. Israel maintains a highly developed and modern infrastructure and its formidable military continuously ranks among the most powerful. Recent natural gas finds off Israel’s coast have instantly transformed the Jewish State into a major energy player with various nations eager to sign deals and form partnerships. When natural disasters strike distant countries, Israeli rescue and medical personnel are among the first on the scene and are world renown for the efficiency and effectiveness.  

 It’s no wonder that in poll after poll, Israelis consistently rank among the happiest people in the world. Perhaps the greatest testament to Israel’s success is the growth of its population. In 1948, only 6% of world Jewry resided in Israel. Today, that figure has swelled to nearly 50%, a development not seen since the Second Temple Era, two-thousand years ago!

 Despite these phenomenal achievements, Israelis still have to contend with menacing and malignant forces lurking just beyond their borders. Up until recently, attention was focused on the north in Lebanon where the Iranian-backed Hezbollah terrorist group maintains a stockpile of 110,000 missiles, all aimed at Israel. With help from Iran, the Shia proxy group is also attempting to establish missile bases in Syria from where it could open a second front against Israel. Israel has thus far been successful in thwarting these nefarious efforts, striking out militarily when necessary and continues to remain vigilant.
*...
*
Israel Gains the Upper Hand over Hamas in Gaza’s Subterranean War


----------



## montelatici

docmauser1 said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Front Page Mag, a hate mag by Horowitz, Zionist commie who turned right wing after the cold war. Good for starting fires, also the writer is also a Zionist Islam hater right winger.  Of course the Palestinians were living in Palestine, 70% arabs in Palestine at turn of the century.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Same as the Jews then in occupied Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since when are arabs being referred to as "jews"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In Babylon Jews were part Arab,Dumpkoff
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> [yawn] There were no "arabs" that time, of course.
Click to expand...


The last KIng of Judea, Herod, had an Arab mother and an Edomite father.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Perpetrator As Victim: No End To A Self-Inflicted "Tragedy"*
* What "Nakba" commemorations really disclose. *
May 16, 2016
Daniel Mandel





Yesterday, May 15, Palestinians and their supporters, as they have done increasingly over recent years, marked the _nakba_ (Arabic for ‘catastrophe’) –– the day 68 years ago that Israel came into existence upon the expiry of British rule under a League of Nations mandate.

That juxtaposition of Israel and _nakba_ isn’t accidental. We’re meant to understand that Israel’s creation caused the displacement of hundreds of thousand of Palestinian Arabs. 

But the truth is different. A British document from the scene in early 1948, declassified in 2013, tells the story: “the Arabs have suffered ... overwhelming defeats ... Jewish victories … have reduced Arab morale to zero and, following the cowardly example of their inept leaders, they are fleeing from the mixed areas in their thousands.” 

In other words, Jew and Arabs, including irregular foreign militias from neighboring states, were already at war and Arabs were fleeing even _before_ Israel came into sovereign existence on May 15, 1948.

Neighboring Arab armies and internal Palestinian militias responded to Israel’s declaration of independence with full-scale hostilities. In fact, the headline for the _New York Times_’ famous report on that day includes the words, ‘Tel Aviv Is Bombed, Egypt Orders Invasion.’ And, indeed, the head of Israel’s provisional government, David Ben Gurion, delivered his first radio address to the nation from an air-raid shelter.

Israel successfully resisted invasion and dismemberment –– the universally affirmed objective of the Arab belligerents –– and Palestinians came off worst of all from the whole venture. At war’s end, over 600,000 Palestinians were living as refugees under neighboring Arab regimes. 

As Saudi columnist Abdulateef Al-Mulhim observed on previous anniversary, “It was a defeat but the Arabs chose to call it a catastrophe.” In fact, the Syrian, Qustantin Zuraiq, in his 1948 pamphlet, _Ma’an al-Nakba_ (The Meaning of the Catastrophe), was first used the term _nakba_ in this context, and the catastrophe of his description was not an Israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, but their flight in anticipation of an Arab invasion and destruction of Israel.

Accordingly, the term _nakba, _as used today, smacks of falsehood, inasmuch as it implies a tragedy inflicted by Israel. The "tragedy," of course, was self-inflicted. 

As Israel’s UN ambassador Abba Eban was to put it some years later, “Once you determine the responsibility for that war, you have determined the responsibility for the refugee problem. Nothing in the history of our generation is clearer or less controversial than the initiative of Arab governments for the conflict out of which the refugee tragedy emerged.”

However, the Palestinians do not mourn today the ill-conceived choice of going to war to abort Israel. They mourn only that they failed.

...

Perpetrator As Victim: No End To A Self-Inflicted "Tragedy"


----------



## montelatici

American_Jihad said:


> *Perpetrator As Victim: No End To A Self-Inflicted "Tragedy"*
> * What "Nakba" commemorations really disclose. *
> May 16, 2016
> Daniel Mandel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday, May 15, Palestinians and their supporters, as they have done increasingly over recent years, marked the _nakba_ (Arabic for ‘catastrophe’) –– the day 68 years ago that Israel came into existence upon the expiry of British rule under a League of Nations mandate.
> 
> That juxtaposition of Israel and _nakba_ isn’t accidental. We’re meant to understand that Israel’s creation caused the displacement of hundreds of thousand of Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> But the truth is different. A British document from the scene in early 1948, declassified in 2013, tells the story: “the Arabs have suffered ... overwhelming defeats ... Jewish victories … have reduced Arab morale to zero and, following the cowardly example of their inept leaders, they are fleeing from the mixed areas in their thousands.”
> 
> In other words, Jew and Arabs, including irregular foreign militias from neighboring states, were already at war and Arabs were fleeing even _before_ Israel came into sovereign existence on May 15, 1948.
> 
> Neighboring Arab armies and internal Palestinian militias responded to Israel’s declaration of independence with full-scale hostilities. In fact, the headline for the _New York Times_’ famous report on that day includes the words, ‘Tel Aviv Is Bombed, Egypt Orders Invasion.’ And, indeed, the head of Israel’s provisional government, David Ben Gurion, delivered his first radio address to the nation from an air-raid shelter.
> 
> Israel successfully resisted invasion and dismemberment –– the universally affirmed objective of the Arab belligerents –– and Palestinians came off worst of all from the whole venture. At war’s end, over 600,000 Palestinians were living as refugees under neighboring Arab regimes.
> 
> As Saudi columnist Abdulateef Al-Mulhim observed on previous anniversary, “It was a defeat but the Arabs chose to call it a catastrophe.” In fact, the Syrian, Qustantin Zuraiq, in his 1948 pamphlet, _Ma’an al-Nakba_ (The Meaning of the Catastrophe), was first used the term _nakba_ in this context, and the catastrophe of his description was not an Israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, but their flight in anticipation of an Arab invasion and destruction of Israel.
> 
> Accordingly, the term _nakba, _as used today, smacks of falsehood, inasmuch as it implies a tragedy inflicted by Israel. The "tragedy," of course, was self-inflicted.
> 
> As Israel’s UN ambassador Abba Eban was to put it some years later, “Once you determine the responsibility for that war, you have determined the responsibility for the refugee problem. Nothing in the history of our generation is clearer or less controversial than the initiative of Arab governments for the conflict out of which the refugee tragedy emerged.”
> 
> However, the Palestinians do not mourn today the ill-conceived choice of going to war to abort Israel. They mourn only that they failed.
> 
> ...
> 
> Perpetrator As Victim: No End To A Self-Inflicted "Tragedy"



As usual you are full of crap.  What the declassified documents actually said before the intervention of the Arab states to try to stop Jewish aggression was:

"Declassified UK reports document build-up of conflict, Jewish public's endorsement of their leaders' pro-terrorist stance and declare *armies of Arab states were Palestinians' 'only hope'....
After an increase in violent attacks by the militant Zionists of the Stern group and Irgun, *British officials reported later in 1946: "*Arab leaders appear to be still disposed to defer active opposition *so long as a chance of a political decision acceptable to Arab interests exists." But they warned: "There is a real danger lest any *further Jewish provocation* may result in isolated acts of retaliation spreading inevitably to wider Arab-Jewish clashes".

British officials predicted war – and Arab defeat – in Palestine in 1948


----------



## American_Jihad

montelatici said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Perpetrator As Victim: No End To A Self-Inflicted "Tragedy"*
> * What "Nakba" commemorations really disclose. *
> May 16, 2016
> Daniel Mandel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday, May 15, Palestinians and their supporters, as they have done increasingly over recent years, marked the _nakba_ (Arabic for ‘catastrophe’) –– the day 68 years ago that Israel came into existence upon the expiry of British rule under a League of Nations mandate.
> 
> That juxtaposition of Israel and _nakba_ isn’t accidental. We’re meant to understand that Israel’s creation caused the displacement of hundreds of thousand of Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> But the truth is different. A British document from the scene in early 1948, declassified in 2013, tells the story: “the Arabs have suffered ... overwhelming defeats ... Jewish victories … have reduced Arab morale to zero and, following the cowardly example of their inept leaders, they are fleeing from the mixed areas in their thousands.”
> 
> In other words, Jew and Arabs, including irregular foreign militias from neighboring states, were already at war and Arabs were fleeing even _before_ Israel came into sovereign existence on May 15, 1948.
> 
> Neighboring Arab armies and internal Palestinian militias responded to Israel’s declaration of independence with full-scale hostilities. In fact, the headline for the _New York Times_’ famous report on that day includes the words, ‘Tel Aviv Is Bombed, Egypt Orders Invasion.’ And, indeed, the head of Israel’s provisional government, David Ben Gurion, delivered his first radio address to the nation from an air-raid shelter.
> 
> Israel successfully resisted invasion and dismemberment –– the universally affirmed objective of the Arab belligerents –– and Palestinians came off worst of all from the whole venture. At war’s end, over 600,000 Palestinians were living as refugees under neighboring Arab regimes.
> 
> As Saudi columnist Abdulateef Al-Mulhim observed on previous anniversary, “It was a defeat but the Arabs chose to call it a catastrophe.” In fact, the Syrian, Qustantin Zuraiq, in his 1948 pamphlet, _Ma’an al-Nakba_ (The Meaning of the Catastrophe), was first used the term _nakba_ in this context, and the catastrophe of his description was not an Israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, but their flight in anticipation of an Arab invasion and destruction of Israel.
> 
> Accordingly, the term _nakba, _as used today, smacks of falsehood, inasmuch as it implies a tragedy inflicted by Israel. The "tragedy," of course, was self-inflicted.
> 
> As Israel’s UN ambassador Abba Eban was to put it some years later, “Once you determine the responsibility for that war, you have determined the responsibility for the refugee problem. Nothing in the history of our generation is clearer or less controversial than the initiative of Arab governments for the conflict out of which the refugee tragedy emerged.”
> 
> However, the Palestinians do not mourn today the ill-conceived choice of going to war to abort Israel. They mourn only that they failed.
> 
> ...
> 
> Perpetrator As Victim: No End To A Self-Inflicted "Tragedy"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As usual you are full of crap.  What the declassified documents actually said before the intervention of the Arab states to try to stop Jewish aggression was:
> 
> "Declassified UK reports document build-up of conflict, Jewish public's endorsement of their leaders' pro-terrorist stance and declare *armies of Arab states were Palestinians' 'only hope'....
> After an increase in violent attacks by the militant Zionists of the Stern group and Irgun, *British officials reported later in 1946: "*Arab leaders appear to be still disposed to defer active opposition *so long as a chance of a political decision acceptable to Arab interests exists." But they warned: "There is a real danger lest any *further Jewish provocation* may result in isolated acts of retaliation spreading inevitably to wider Arab-Jewish clashes".
> 
> British officials predicted war – and Arab defeat – in Palestine in 1948
Click to expand...

Truth, hitler picked the wrong people to exterminate...


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, how quick arabs-muslims manage to crowd into a country, eh? Just look at Europe! A wink of an eye, and hordes upon hordes of them are in!
> 
> 
> 
> Same as the Jews then in occupied Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since when are arabs being referred to as "jews"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In Babylon Jews were part Arab,Dumpkoff
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> [yawn] There were no "arabs" that time, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The last KIng of Judea, Herod, had an Arab mother and an Edomite father.
Click to expand...





AND ? ? ? ?


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Perpetrator As Victim: No End To A Self-Inflicted "Tragedy"*
> * What "Nakba" commemorations really disclose. *
> May 16, 2016
> Daniel Mandel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday, May 15, Palestinians and their supporters, as they have done increasingly over recent years, marked the _nakba_ (Arabic for ‘catastrophe’) –– the day 68 years ago that Israel came into existence upon the expiry of British rule under a League of Nations mandate.
> 
> That juxtaposition of Israel and _nakba_ isn’t accidental. We’re meant to understand that Israel’s creation caused the displacement of hundreds of thousand of Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> But the truth is different. A British document from the scene in early 1948, declassified in 2013, tells the story: “the Arabs have suffered ... overwhelming defeats ... Jewish victories … have reduced Arab morale to zero and, following the cowardly example of their inept leaders, they are fleeing from the mixed areas in their thousands.”
> 
> In other words, Jew and Arabs, including irregular foreign militias from neighboring states, were already at war and Arabs were fleeing even _before_ Israel came into sovereign existence on May 15, 1948.
> 
> Neighboring Arab armies and internal Palestinian militias responded to Israel’s declaration of independence with full-scale hostilities. In fact, the headline for the _New York Times_’ famous report on that day includes the words, ‘Tel Aviv Is Bombed, Egypt Orders Invasion.’ And, indeed, the head of Israel’s provisional government, David Ben Gurion, delivered his first radio address to the nation from an air-raid shelter.
> 
> Israel successfully resisted invasion and dismemberment –– the universally affirmed objective of the Arab belligerents –– and Palestinians came off worst of all from the whole venture. At war’s end, over 600,000 Palestinians were living as refugees under neighboring Arab regimes.
> 
> As Saudi columnist Abdulateef Al-Mulhim observed on previous anniversary, “It was a defeat but the Arabs chose to call it a catastrophe.” In fact, the Syrian, Qustantin Zuraiq, in his 1948 pamphlet, _Ma’an al-Nakba_ (The Meaning of the Catastrophe), was first used the term _nakba_ in this context, and the catastrophe of his description was not an Israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, but their flight in anticipation of an Arab invasion and destruction of Israel.
> 
> Accordingly, the term _nakba, _as used today, smacks of falsehood, inasmuch as it implies a tragedy inflicted by Israel. The "tragedy," of course, was self-inflicted.
> 
> As Israel’s UN ambassador Abba Eban was to put it some years later, “Once you determine the responsibility for that war, you have determined the responsibility for the refugee problem. Nothing in the history of our generation is clearer or less controversial than the initiative of Arab governments for the conflict out of which the refugee tragedy emerged.”
> 
> However, the Palestinians do not mourn today the ill-conceived choice of going to war to abort Israel. They mourn only that they failed.
> 
> ...
> 
> Perpetrator As Victim: No End To A Self-Inflicted "Tragedy"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As usual you are full of crap.  What the declassified documents actually said before the intervention of the Arab states to try to stop Jewish aggression was:
> 
> "Declassified UK reports document build-up of conflict, Jewish public's endorsement of their leaders' pro-terrorist stance and declare *armies of Arab states were Palestinians' 'only hope'....
> After an increase in violent attacks by the militant Zionists of the Stern group and Irgun, *British officials reported later in 1946: "*Arab leaders appear to be still disposed to defer active opposition *so long as a chance of a political decision acceptable to Arab interests exists." But they warned: "There is a real danger lest any *further Jewish provocation* may result in isolated acts of retaliation spreading inevitably to wider Arab-Jewish clashes".
> 
> British officials predicted war – and Arab defeat – in Palestine in 1948
Click to expand...








 THE BEST YOU HAVE IS AN ANTI SEMITIC RAG THAT HAS BEEN SUED FOR REPORTING SUCH LIES.  IT HAS THE LOWEST NUMBERS OF READERS OUT OF ALL THE DAILY'S IN THE U.K.


----------



## montelatici

American_Jihad said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Perpetrator As Victim: No End To A Self-Inflicted "Tragedy"*
> * What "Nakba" commemorations really disclose. *
> May 16, 2016
> Daniel Mandel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday, May 15, Palestinians and their supporters, as they have done increasingly over recent years, marked the _nakba_ (Arabic for ‘catastrophe’) –– the day 68 years ago that Israel came into existence upon the expiry of British rule under a League of Nations mandate.
> 
> That juxtaposition of Israel and _nakba_ isn’t accidental. We’re meant to understand that Israel’s creation caused the displacement of hundreds of thousand of Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> But the truth is different. A British document from the scene in early 1948, declassified in 2013, tells the story: “the Arabs have suffered ... overwhelming defeats ... Jewish victories … have reduced Arab morale to zero and, following the cowardly example of their inept leaders, they are fleeing from the mixed areas in their thousands.”
> 
> In other words, Jew and Arabs, including irregular foreign militias from neighboring states, were already at war and Arabs were fleeing even _before_ Israel came into sovereign existence on May 15, 1948.
> 
> Neighboring Arab armies and internal Palestinian militias responded to Israel’s declaration of independence with full-scale hostilities. In fact, the headline for the _New York Times_’ famous report on that day includes the words, ‘Tel Aviv Is Bombed, Egypt Orders Invasion.’ And, indeed, the head of Israel’s provisional government, David Ben Gurion, delivered his first radio address to the nation from an air-raid shelter.
> 
> Israel successfully resisted invasion and dismemberment –– the universally affirmed objective of the Arab belligerents –– and Palestinians came off worst of all from the whole venture. At war’s end, over 600,000 Palestinians were living as refugees under neighboring Arab regimes.
> 
> As Saudi columnist Abdulateef Al-Mulhim observed on previous anniversary, “It was a defeat but the Arabs chose to call it a catastrophe.” In fact, the Syrian, Qustantin Zuraiq, in his 1948 pamphlet, _Ma’an al-Nakba_ (The Meaning of the Catastrophe), was first used the term _nakba_ in this context, and the catastrophe of his description was not an Israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, but their flight in anticipation of an Arab invasion and destruction of Israel.
> 
> Accordingly, the term _nakba, _as used today, smacks of falsehood, inasmuch as it implies a tragedy inflicted by Israel. The "tragedy," of course, was self-inflicted.
> 
> As Israel’s UN ambassador Abba Eban was to put it some years later, “Once you determine the responsibility for that war, you have determined the responsibility for the refugee problem. Nothing in the history of our generation is clearer or less controversial than the initiative of Arab governments for the conflict out of which the refugee tragedy emerged.”
> 
> However, the Palestinians do not mourn today the ill-conceived choice of going to war to abort Israel. They mourn only that they failed.
> 
> ...
> 
> Perpetrator As Victim: No End To A Self-Inflicted "Tragedy"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As usual you are full of crap.  What the declassified documents actually said before the intervention of the Arab states to try to stop Jewish aggression was:
> 
> "Declassified UK reports document build-up of conflict, Jewish public's endorsement of their leaders' pro-terrorist stance and declare *armies of Arab states were Palestinians' 'only hope'....
> After an increase in violent attacks by the militant Zionists of the Stern group and Irgun, *British officials reported later in 1946: "*Arab leaders appear to be still disposed to defer active opposition *so long as a chance of a political decision acceptable to Arab interests exists." But they warned: "There is a real danger lest any *further Jewish provocation* may result in isolated acts of retaliation spreading inevitably to wider Arab-Jewish clashes".
> 
> British officials predicted war – and Arab defeat – in Palestine in 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Truth, hitler picked the wrong people to exterminate...
Click to expand...


What does Hitler have to do with Christians and Muslims of the Middle East?


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Perpetrator As Victim: No End To A Self-Inflicted "Tragedy"*
> * What "Nakba" commemorations really disclose. *
> May 16, 2016
> Daniel Mandel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday, May 15, Palestinians and their supporters, as they have done increasingly over recent years, marked the _nakba_ (Arabic for ‘catastrophe’) –– the day 68 years ago that Israel came into existence upon the expiry of British rule under a League of Nations mandate.
> 
> That juxtaposition of Israel and _nakba_ isn’t accidental. We’re meant to understand that Israel’s creation caused the displacement of hundreds of thousand of Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> But the truth is different. A British document from the scene in early 1948, declassified in 2013, tells the story: “the Arabs have suffered ... overwhelming defeats ... Jewish victories … have reduced Arab morale to zero and, following the cowardly example of their inept leaders, they are fleeing from the mixed areas in their thousands.”
> 
> In other words, Jew and Arabs, including irregular foreign militias from neighboring states, were already at war and Arabs were fleeing even _before_ Israel came into sovereign existence on May 15, 1948.
> 
> Neighboring Arab armies and internal Palestinian militias responded to Israel’s declaration of independence with full-scale hostilities. In fact, the headline for the _New York Times_’ famous report on that day includes the words, ‘Tel Aviv Is Bombed, Egypt Orders Invasion.’ And, indeed, the head of Israel’s provisional government, David Ben Gurion, delivered his first radio address to the nation from an air-raid shelter.
> 
> Israel successfully resisted invasion and dismemberment –– the universally affirmed objective of the Arab belligerents –– and Palestinians came off worst of all from the whole venture. At war’s end, over 600,000 Palestinians were living as refugees under neighboring Arab regimes.
> 
> As Saudi columnist Abdulateef Al-Mulhim observed on previous anniversary, “It was a defeat but the Arabs chose to call it a catastrophe.” In fact, the Syrian, Qustantin Zuraiq, in his 1948 pamphlet, _Ma’an al-Nakba_ (The Meaning of the Catastrophe), was first used the term _nakba_ in this context, and the catastrophe of his description was not an Israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, but their flight in anticipation of an Arab invasion and destruction of Israel.
> 
> Accordingly, the term _nakba, _as used today, smacks of falsehood, inasmuch as it implies a tragedy inflicted by Israel. The "tragedy," of course, was self-inflicted.
> 
> As Israel’s UN ambassador Abba Eban was to put it some years later, “Once you determine the responsibility for that war, you have determined the responsibility for the refugee problem. Nothing in the history of our generation is clearer or less controversial than the initiative of Arab governments for the conflict out of which the refugee tragedy emerged.”
> 
> However, the Palestinians do not mourn today the ill-conceived choice of going to war to abort Israel. They mourn only that they failed.
> 
> ...
> 
> Perpetrator As Victim: No End To A Self-Inflicted "Tragedy"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As usual you are full of crap.  What the declassified documents actually said before the intervention of the Arab states to try to stop Jewish aggression was:
> 
> "Declassified UK reports document build-up of conflict, Jewish public's endorsement of their leaders' pro-terrorist stance and declare *armies of Arab states were Palestinians' 'only hope'....
> After an increase in violent attacks by the militant Zionists of the Stern group and Irgun, *British officials reported later in 1946: "*Arab leaders appear to be still disposed to defer active opposition *so long as a chance of a political decision acceptable to Arab interests exists." But they warned: "There is a real danger lest any *further Jewish provocation* may result in isolated acts of retaliation spreading inevitably to wider Arab-Jewish clashes".
> 
> British officials predicted war – and Arab defeat – in Palestine in 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Truth, hitler picked the wrong people to exterminate...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does Hitler have to do with Christians and Muslims of the Middle East?
Click to expand...

Do you mean the Christians of the Islamist Middle East who have largely been exterminated by your Islamist heroes?


----------



## P F Tinmore

American_Jihad said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Perpetrator As Victim: No End To A Self-Inflicted "Tragedy"*
> * What "Nakba" commemorations really disclose. *
> May 16, 2016
> Daniel Mandel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday, May 15, Palestinians and their supporters, as they have done increasingly over recent years, marked the _nakba_ (Arabic for ‘catastrophe’) –– the day 68 years ago that Israel came into existence upon the expiry of British rule under a League of Nations mandate.
> 
> That juxtaposition of Israel and _nakba_ isn’t accidental. We’re meant to understand that Israel’s creation caused the displacement of hundreds of thousand of Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> But the truth is different. A British document from the scene in early 1948, declassified in 2013, tells the story: “the Arabs have suffered ... overwhelming defeats ... Jewish victories … have reduced Arab morale to zero and, following the cowardly example of their inept leaders, they are fleeing from the mixed areas in their thousands.”
> 
> In other words, Jew and Arabs, including irregular foreign militias from neighboring states, were already at war and Arabs were fleeing even _before_ Israel came into sovereign existence on May 15, 1948.
> 
> Neighboring Arab armies and internal Palestinian militias responded to Israel’s declaration of independence with full-scale hostilities. In fact, the headline for the _New York Times_’ famous report on that day includes the words, ‘Tel Aviv Is Bombed, Egypt Orders Invasion.’ And, indeed, the head of Israel’s provisional government, David Ben Gurion, delivered his first radio address to the nation from an air-raid shelter.
> 
> Israel successfully resisted invasion and dismemberment –– the universally affirmed objective of the Arab belligerents –– and Palestinians came off worst of all from the whole venture. At war’s end, over 600,000 Palestinians were living as refugees under neighboring Arab regimes.
> 
> As Saudi columnist Abdulateef Al-Mulhim observed on previous anniversary, “It was a defeat but the Arabs chose to call it a catastrophe.” In fact, the Syrian, Qustantin Zuraiq, in his 1948 pamphlet, _Ma’an al-Nakba_ (The Meaning of the Catastrophe), was first used the term _nakba_ in this context, and the catastrophe of his description was not an Israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, but their flight in anticipation of an Arab invasion and destruction of Israel.
> 
> Accordingly, the term _nakba, _as used today, smacks of falsehood, inasmuch as it implies a tragedy inflicted by Israel. The "tragedy," of course, was self-inflicted.
> 
> As Israel’s UN ambassador Abba Eban was to put it some years later, “Once you determine the responsibility for that war, you have determined the responsibility for the refugee problem. Nothing in the history of our generation is clearer or less controversial than the initiative of Arab governments for the conflict out of which the refugee tragedy emerged.”
> 
> However, the Palestinians do not mourn today the ill-conceived choice of going to war to abort Israel. They mourn only that they failed.
> 
> ...
> 
> Perpetrator As Victim: No End To A Self-Inflicted "Tragedy"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As usual you are full of crap.  What the declassified documents actually said before the intervention of the Arab states to try to stop Jewish aggression was:
> 
> "Declassified UK reports document build-up of conflict, Jewish public's endorsement of their leaders' pro-terrorist stance and declare *armies of Arab states were Palestinians' 'only hope'....
> After an increase in violent attacks by the militant Zionists of the Stern group and Irgun, *British officials reported later in 1946: "*Arab leaders appear to be still disposed to defer active opposition *so long as a chance of a political decision acceptable to Arab interests exists." But they warned: "There is a real danger lest any *further Jewish provocation* may result in isolated acts of retaliation spreading inevitably to wider Arab-Jewish clashes".
> 
> British officials predicted war – and Arab defeat – in Palestine in 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Truth, hitler picked the wrong people to exterminate...
Click to expand...

Truth, the Zionists picked the wrong people to colonize.


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Perpetrator As Victim: No End To A Self-Inflicted "Tragedy"*
> * What "Nakba" commemorations really disclose. *
> May 16, 2016
> Daniel Mandel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday, May 15, Palestinians and their supporters, as they have done increasingly over recent years, marked the _nakba_ (Arabic for ‘catastrophe’) –– the day 68 years ago that Israel came into existence upon the expiry of British rule under a League of Nations mandate.
> 
> That juxtaposition of Israel and _nakba_ isn’t accidental. We’re meant to understand that Israel’s creation caused the displacement of hundreds of thousand of Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> But the truth is different. A British document from the scene in early 1948, declassified in 2013, tells the story: “the Arabs have suffered ... overwhelming defeats ... Jewish victories … have reduced Arab morale to zero and, following the cowardly example of their inept leaders, they are fleeing from the mixed areas in their thousands.”
> 
> In other words, Jew and Arabs, including irregular foreign militias from neighboring states, were already at war and Arabs were fleeing even _before_ Israel came into sovereign existence on May 15, 1948.
> 
> Neighboring Arab armies and internal Palestinian militias responded to Israel’s declaration of independence with full-scale hostilities. In fact, the headline for the _New York Times_’ famous report on that day includes the words, ‘Tel Aviv Is Bombed, Egypt Orders Invasion.’ And, indeed, the head of Israel’s provisional government, David Ben Gurion, delivered his first radio address to the nation from an air-raid shelter.
> 
> Israel successfully resisted invasion and dismemberment –– the universally affirmed objective of the Arab belligerents –– and Palestinians came off worst of all from the whole venture. At war’s end, over 600,000 Palestinians were living as refugees under neighboring Arab regimes.
> 
> As Saudi columnist Abdulateef Al-Mulhim observed on previous anniversary, “It was a defeat but the Arabs chose to call it a catastrophe.” In fact, the Syrian, Qustantin Zuraiq, in his 1948 pamphlet, _Ma’an al-Nakba_ (The Meaning of the Catastrophe), was first used the term _nakba_ in this context, and the catastrophe of his description was not an Israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, but their flight in anticipation of an Arab invasion and destruction of Israel.
> 
> Accordingly, the term _nakba, _as used today, smacks of falsehood, inasmuch as it implies a tragedy inflicted by Israel. The "tragedy," of course, was self-inflicted.
> 
> As Israel’s UN ambassador Abba Eban was to put it some years later, “Once you determine the responsibility for that war, you have determined the responsibility for the refugee problem. Nothing in the history of our generation is clearer or less controversial than the initiative of Arab governments for the conflict out of which the refugee tragedy emerged.”
> 
> However, the Palestinians do not mourn today the ill-conceived choice of going to war to abort Israel. They mourn only that they failed.
> 
> ...
> 
> Perpetrator As Victim: No End To A Self-Inflicted "Tragedy"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As usual you are full of crap.  What the declassified documents actually said before the intervention of the Arab states to try to stop Jewish aggression was:
> 
> "Declassified UK reports document build-up of conflict, Jewish public's endorsement of their leaders' pro-terrorist stance and declare *armies of Arab states were Palestinians' 'only hope'....
> After an increase in violent attacks by the militant Zionists of the Stern group and Irgun, *British officials reported later in 1946: "*Arab leaders appear to be still disposed to defer active opposition *so long as a chance of a political decision acceptable to Arab interests exists." But they warned: "There is a real danger lest any *further Jewish provocation* may result in isolated acts of retaliation spreading inevitably to wider Arab-Jewish clashes".
> 
> British officials predicted war – and Arab defeat – in Palestine in 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Truth, hitler picked the wrong people to exterminate...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does Hitler have to do with Christians and Muslims of the Middle East?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the Christians of the Islamist Middle East who have largely been exterminated by your Islamist heroes?
Click to expand...


What Islamist heroes?  I despise Islamists as much as Zionists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Perpetrator As Victim: No End To A Self-Inflicted "Tragedy"*
> * What "Nakba" commemorations really disclose. *
> May 16, 2016
> Daniel Mandel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday, May 15, Palestinians and their supporters, as they have done increasingly over recent years, marked the _nakba_ (Arabic for ‘catastrophe’) –– the day 68 years ago that Israel came into existence upon the expiry of British rule under a League of Nations mandate.
> 
> That juxtaposition of Israel and _nakba_ isn’t accidental. We’re meant to understand that Israel’s creation caused the displacement of hundreds of thousand of Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> But the truth is different. A British document from the scene in early 1948, declassified in 2013, tells the story: “the Arabs have suffered ... overwhelming defeats ... Jewish victories … have reduced Arab morale to zero and, following the cowardly example of their inept leaders, they are fleeing from the mixed areas in their thousands.”
> 
> In other words, Jew and Arabs, including irregular foreign militias from neighboring states, were already at war and Arabs were fleeing even _before_ Israel came into sovereign existence on May 15, 1948.
> 
> Neighboring Arab armies and internal Palestinian militias responded to Israel’s declaration of independence with full-scale hostilities. In fact, the headline for the _New York Times_’ famous report on that day includes the words, ‘Tel Aviv Is Bombed, Egypt Orders Invasion.’ And, indeed, the head of Israel’s provisional government, David Ben Gurion, delivered his first radio address to the nation from an air-raid shelter.
> 
> Israel successfully resisted invasion and dismemberment –– the universally affirmed objective of the Arab belligerents –– and Palestinians came off worst of all from the whole venture. At war’s end, over 600,000 Palestinians were living as refugees under neighboring Arab regimes.
> 
> As Saudi columnist Abdulateef Al-Mulhim observed on previous anniversary, “It was a defeat but the Arabs chose to call it a catastrophe.” In fact, the Syrian, Qustantin Zuraiq, in his 1948 pamphlet, _Ma’an al-Nakba_ (The Meaning of the Catastrophe), was first used the term _nakba_ in this context, and the catastrophe of his description was not an Israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, but their flight in anticipation of an Arab invasion and destruction of Israel.
> 
> Accordingly, the term _nakba, _as used today, smacks of falsehood, inasmuch as it implies a tragedy inflicted by Israel. The "tragedy," of course, was self-inflicted.
> 
> As Israel’s UN ambassador Abba Eban was to put it some years later, “Once you determine the responsibility for that war, you have determined the responsibility for the refugee problem. Nothing in the history of our generation is clearer or less controversial than the initiative of Arab governments for the conflict out of which the refugee tragedy emerged.”
> 
> However, the Palestinians do not mourn today the ill-conceived choice of going to war to abort Israel. They mourn only that they failed.
> 
> ...
> 
> Perpetrator As Victim: No End To A Self-Inflicted "Tragedy"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As usual you are full of crap.  What the declassified documents actually said before the intervention of the Arab states to try to stop Jewish aggression was:
> 
> "Declassified UK reports document build-up of conflict, Jewish public's endorsement of their leaders' pro-terrorist stance and declare *armies of Arab states were Palestinians' 'only hope'....
> After an increase in violent attacks by the militant Zionists of the Stern group and Irgun, *British officials reported later in 1946: "*Arab leaders appear to be still disposed to defer active opposition *so long as a chance of a political decision acceptable to Arab interests exists." But they warned: "There is a real danger lest any *further Jewish provocation* may result in isolated acts of retaliation spreading inevitably to wider Arab-Jewish clashes".
> 
> British officials predicted war – and Arab defeat – in Palestine in 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Truth, hitler picked the wrong people to exterminate...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does Hitler have to do with Christians and Muslims of the Middle East?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the Christians of the Islamist Middle East who have largely been exterminated by your Islamist heroes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What Islamist heroes?  I despise Islamists as much as Zionists.
Click to expand...

Indeed, two peas in a pod.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Perpetrator As Victim: No End To A Self-Inflicted "Tragedy"*
> * What "Nakba" commemorations really disclose. *
> May 16, 2016
> Daniel Mandel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday, May 15, Palestinians and their supporters, as they have done increasingly over recent years, marked the _nakba_ (Arabic for ‘catastrophe’) –– the day 68 years ago that Israel came into existence upon the expiry of British rule under a League of Nations mandate.
> 
> That juxtaposition of Israel and _nakba_ isn’t accidental. We’re meant to understand that Israel’s creation caused the displacement of hundreds of thousand of Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> But the truth is different. A British document from the scene in early 1948, declassified in 2013, tells the story: “the Arabs have suffered ... overwhelming defeats ... Jewish victories … have reduced Arab morale to zero and, following the cowardly example of their inept leaders, they are fleeing from the mixed areas in their thousands.”
> 
> In other words, Jew and Arabs, including irregular foreign militias from neighboring states, were already at war and Arabs were fleeing even _before_ Israel came into sovereign existence on May 15, 1948.
> 
> Neighboring Arab armies and internal Palestinian militias responded to Israel’s declaration of independence with full-scale hostilities. In fact, the headline for the _New York Times_’ famous report on that day includes the words, ‘Tel Aviv Is Bombed, Egypt Orders Invasion.’ And, indeed, the head of Israel’s provisional government, David Ben Gurion, delivered his first radio address to the nation from an air-raid shelter.
> 
> Israel successfully resisted invasion and dismemberment –– the universally affirmed objective of the Arab belligerents –– and Palestinians came off worst of all from the whole venture. At war’s end, over 600,000 Palestinians were living as refugees under neighboring Arab regimes.
> 
> As Saudi columnist Abdulateef Al-Mulhim observed on previous anniversary, “It was a defeat but the Arabs chose to call it a catastrophe.” In fact, the Syrian, Qustantin Zuraiq, in his 1948 pamphlet, _Ma’an al-Nakba_ (The Meaning of the Catastrophe), was first used the term _nakba_ in this context, and the catastrophe of his description was not an Israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, but their flight in anticipation of an Arab invasion and destruction of Israel.
> 
> Accordingly, the term _nakba, _as used today, smacks of falsehood, inasmuch as it implies a tragedy inflicted by Israel. The "tragedy," of course, was self-inflicted.
> 
> As Israel’s UN ambassador Abba Eban was to put it some years later, “Once you determine the responsibility for that war, you have determined the responsibility for the refugee problem. Nothing in the history of our generation is clearer or less controversial than the initiative of Arab governments for the conflict out of which the refugee tragedy emerged.”
> 
> However, the Palestinians do not mourn today the ill-conceived choice of going to war to abort Israel. They mourn only that they failed.
> 
> ...
> 
> Perpetrator As Victim: No End To A Self-Inflicted "Tragedy"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As usual you are full of crap.  What the declassified documents actually said before the intervention of the Arab states to try to stop Jewish aggression was:
> 
> "Declassified UK reports document build-up of conflict, Jewish public's endorsement of their leaders' pro-terrorist stance and declare *armies of Arab states were Palestinians' 'only hope'....
> After an increase in violent attacks by the militant Zionists of the Stern group and Irgun, *British officials reported later in 1946: "*Arab leaders appear to be still disposed to defer active opposition *so long as a chance of a political decision acceptable to Arab interests exists." But they warned: "There is a real danger lest any *further Jewish provocation* may result in isolated acts of retaliation spreading inevitably to wider Arab-Jewish clashes".
> 
> British officials predicted war – and Arab defeat – in Palestine in 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Truth, hitler picked the wrong people to exterminate...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does Hitler have to do with Christians and Muslims of the Middle East?
Click to expand...








 A lot when you look at the links through islam and Catholicism.   The mufti and the Pope were both cuddling up to him during the war years


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Perpetrator As Victim: No End To A Self-Inflicted "Tragedy"*
> * What "Nakba" commemorations really disclose. *
> May 16, 2016
> Daniel Mandel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday, May 15, Palestinians and their supporters, as they have done increasingly over recent years, marked the _nakba_ (Arabic for ‘catastrophe’) –– the day 68 years ago that Israel came into existence upon the expiry of British rule under a League of Nations mandate.
> 
> That juxtaposition of Israel and _nakba_ isn’t accidental. We’re meant to understand that Israel’s creation caused the displacement of hundreds of thousand of Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> But the truth is different. A British document from the scene in early 1948, declassified in 2013, tells the story: “the Arabs have suffered ... overwhelming defeats ... Jewish victories … have reduced Arab morale to zero and, following the cowardly example of their inept leaders, they are fleeing from the mixed areas in their thousands.”
> 
> In other words, Jew and Arabs, including irregular foreign militias from neighboring states, were already at war and Arabs were fleeing even _before_ Israel came into sovereign existence on May 15, 1948.
> 
> Neighboring Arab armies and internal Palestinian militias responded to Israel’s declaration of independence with full-scale hostilities. In fact, the headline for the _New York Times_’ famous report on that day includes the words, ‘Tel Aviv Is Bombed, Egypt Orders Invasion.’ And, indeed, the head of Israel’s provisional government, David Ben Gurion, delivered his first radio address to the nation from an air-raid shelter.
> 
> Israel successfully resisted invasion and dismemberment –– the universally affirmed objective of the Arab belligerents –– and Palestinians came off worst of all from the whole venture. At war’s end, over 600,000 Palestinians were living as refugees under neighboring Arab regimes.
> 
> As Saudi columnist Abdulateef Al-Mulhim observed on previous anniversary, “It was a defeat but the Arabs chose to call it a catastrophe.” In fact, the Syrian, Qustantin Zuraiq, in his 1948 pamphlet, _Ma’an al-Nakba_ (The Meaning of the Catastrophe), was first used the term _nakba_ in this context, and the catastrophe of his description was not an Israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, but their flight in anticipation of an Arab invasion and destruction of Israel.
> 
> Accordingly, the term _nakba, _as used today, smacks of falsehood, inasmuch as it implies a tragedy inflicted by Israel. The "tragedy," of course, was self-inflicted.
> 
> As Israel’s UN ambassador Abba Eban was to put it some years later, “Once you determine the responsibility for that war, you have determined the responsibility for the refugee problem. Nothing in the history of our generation is clearer or less controversial than the initiative of Arab governments for the conflict out of which the refugee tragedy emerged.”
> 
> However, the Palestinians do not mourn today the ill-conceived choice of going to war to abort Israel. They mourn only that they failed.
> 
> ...
> 
> Perpetrator As Victim: No End To A Self-Inflicted "Tragedy"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As usual you are full of crap.  What the declassified documents actually said before the intervention of the Arab states to try to stop Jewish aggression was:
> 
> "Declassified UK reports document build-up of conflict, Jewish public's endorsement of their leaders' pro-terrorist stance and declare *armies of Arab states were Palestinians' 'only hope'....
> After an increase in violent attacks by the militant Zionists of the Stern group and Irgun, *British officials reported later in 1946: "*Arab leaders appear to be still disposed to defer active opposition *so long as a chance of a political decision acceptable to Arab interests exists." But they warned: "There is a real danger lest any *further Jewish provocation* may result in isolated acts of retaliation spreading inevitably to wider Arab-Jewish clashes".
> 
> British officials predicted war – and Arab defeat – in Palestine in 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Truth, hitler picked the wrong people to exterminate...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Truth, the Zionists picked the wrong people to colonize.
Click to expand...








 How so what nation do Zionists come from ?   And the arab muslims had already lost the land because they refused to colonise in 1850


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Perpetrator As Victim: No End To A Self-Inflicted "Tragedy"*
> * What "Nakba" commemorations really disclose. *
> May 16, 2016
> Daniel Mandel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday, May 15, Palestinians and their supporters, as they have done increasingly over recent years, marked the _nakba_ (Arabic for ‘catastrophe’) –– the day 68 years ago that Israel came into existence upon the expiry of British rule under a League of Nations mandate.
> 
> That juxtaposition of Israel and _nakba_ isn’t accidental. We’re meant to understand that Israel’s creation caused the displacement of hundreds of thousand of Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> But the truth is different. A British document from the scene in early 1948, declassified in 2013, tells the story: “the Arabs have suffered ... overwhelming defeats ... Jewish victories … have reduced Arab morale to zero and, following the cowardly example of their inept leaders, they are fleeing from the mixed areas in their thousands.”
> 
> In other words, Jew and Arabs, including irregular foreign militias from neighboring states, were already at war and Arabs were fleeing even _before_ Israel came into sovereign existence on May 15, 1948.
> 
> Neighboring Arab armies and internal Palestinian militias responded to Israel’s declaration of independence with full-scale hostilities. In fact, the headline for the _New York Times_’ famous report on that day includes the words, ‘Tel Aviv Is Bombed, Egypt Orders Invasion.’ And, indeed, the head of Israel’s provisional government, David Ben Gurion, delivered his first radio address to the nation from an air-raid shelter.
> 
> Israel successfully resisted invasion and dismemberment –– the universally affirmed objective of the Arab belligerents –– and Palestinians came off worst of all from the whole venture. At war’s end, over 600,000 Palestinians were living as refugees under neighboring Arab regimes.
> 
> As Saudi columnist Abdulateef Al-Mulhim observed on previous anniversary, “It was a defeat but the Arabs chose to call it a catastrophe.” In fact, the Syrian, Qustantin Zuraiq, in his 1948 pamphlet, _Ma’an al-Nakba_ (The Meaning of the Catastrophe), was first used the term _nakba_ in this context, and the catastrophe of his description was not an Israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, but their flight in anticipation of an Arab invasion and destruction of Israel.
> 
> Accordingly, the term _nakba, _as used today, smacks of falsehood, inasmuch as it implies a tragedy inflicted by Israel. The "tragedy," of course, was self-inflicted.
> 
> As Israel’s UN ambassador Abba Eban was to put it some years later, “Once you determine the responsibility for that war, you have determined the responsibility for the refugee problem. Nothing in the history of our generation is clearer or less controversial than the initiative of Arab governments for the conflict out of which the refugee tragedy emerged.”
> 
> However, the Palestinians do not mourn today the ill-conceived choice of going to war to abort Israel. They mourn only that they failed.
> 
> ...
> 
> Perpetrator As Victim: No End To A Self-Inflicted "Tragedy"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As usual you are full of crap.  What the declassified documents actually said before the intervention of the Arab states to try to stop Jewish aggression was:
> 
> "Declassified UK reports document build-up of conflict, Jewish public's endorsement of their leaders' pro-terrorist stance and declare *armies of Arab states were Palestinians' 'only hope'....
> After an increase in violent attacks by the militant Zionists of the Stern group and Irgun, *British officials reported later in 1946: "*Arab leaders appear to be still disposed to defer active opposition *so long as a chance of a political decision acceptable to Arab interests exists." But they warned: "There is a real danger lest any *further Jewish provocation* may result in isolated acts of retaliation spreading inevitably to wider Arab-Jewish clashes".
> 
> British officials predicted war – and Arab defeat – in Palestine in 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Truth, hitler picked the wrong people to exterminate...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does Hitler have to do with Christians and Muslims of the Middle East?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the Christians of the Islamist Middle East who have largely been exterminated by your Islamist heroes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What Islamist heroes?  I despise Islamists as much as Zionists.
Click to expand...







 Then why do you defend their illegal weapons and claim they have the right to mass murder children of Israel. All you ever do on here is defend and support hamas and its terrorism


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> As usual you are full of crap.  What the declassified documents actually said before the intervention of the Arab states to try to stop Jewish aggression was:
> 
> "Declassified UK reports document build-up of conflict, Jewish public's endorsement of their leaders' pro-terrorist stance and declare *armies of Arab states were Palestinians' 'only hope'....
> After an increase in violent attacks by the militant Zionists of the Stern group and Irgun, *British officials reported later in 1946: "*Arab leaders appear to be still disposed to defer active opposition *so long as a chance of a political decision acceptable to Arab interests exists." But they warned: "There is a real danger lest any *further Jewish provocation* may result in isolated acts of retaliation spreading inevitably to wider Arab-Jewish clashes".
> 
> British officials predicted war – and Arab defeat – in Palestine in 1948
> 
> 
> 
> Truth, hitler picked the wrong people to exterminate...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does Hitler have to do with Christians and Muslims of the Middle East?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the Christians of the Islamist Middle East who have largely been exterminated by your Islamist heroes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What Islamist heroes?  I despise Islamists as much as Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, two peas in a pod.
Click to expand...








 Who Hitler and the Mufti both monte's hero's that he worships. Are you a member of the same hero worship club


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
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> montelatici said:
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> Hollie said:
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> montelatici said:
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> American_Jihad said:
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> 
> Truth, hitler picked the wrong people to exterminate...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does Hitler have to do with Christians and Muslims of the Middle East?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the Christians of the Islamist Middle East who have largely been exterminated by your Islamist heroes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What Islamist heroes?  I despise Islamists as much as Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, two peas in a pod.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Hitler and the Mufti both monte's hero's that he worships. Are you a member of the same hero worship club
Click to expand...

What elected office did the Mufti hold that he could act on the behalf of the Palestinians?


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## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> montelatici said:
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> Hollie said:
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> montelatici said:
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> What does Hitler have to do with Christians and Muslims of the Middle East?
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean the Christians of the Islamist Middle East who have largely been exterminated by your Islamist heroes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What Islamist heroes?  I despise Islamists as much as Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, two peas in a pod.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Hitler and the Mufti both monte's hero's that he worships. Are you a member of the same hero worship club
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What elected office did the Mufti hold that he could act on the behalf of the Palestinians?
Click to expand...






 Grand mufti of Jerusalem, and the muslims did not elect their leaders back then


 Want to try  another deflection


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## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
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> Hollie said:
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> montelatici said:
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> 
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> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> As usual you are full of crap.  What the declassified documents actually said before the intervention of the Arab states to try to stop Jewish aggression was:
> 
> "Declassified UK reports document build-up of conflict, Jewish public's endorsement of their leaders' pro-terrorist stance and declare *armies of Arab states were Palestinians' 'only hope'....
> After an increase in violent attacks by the militant Zionists of the Stern group and Irgun, *British officials reported later in 1946: "*Arab leaders appear to be still disposed to defer active opposition *so long as a chance of a political decision acceptable to Arab interests exists." But they warned: "There is a real danger lest any *further Jewish provocation* may result in isolated acts of retaliation spreading inevitably to wider Arab-Jewish clashes".
> 
> British officials predicted war – and Arab defeat – in Palestine in 1948
> 
> 
> 
> Truth, hitler picked the wrong people to exterminate...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does Hitler have to do with Christians and Muslims of the Middle East?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the Christians of the Islamist Middle East who have largely been exterminated by your Islamist heroes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What Islamist heroes?  I despise Islamists as much as Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why do you defend their illegal weapons and claim they have the right to mass murder children of Israel. All you ever do on here is defend and support hamas and its terrorism
Click to expand...

Are you still playing the terrorism card?

Is that all you have?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
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> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> montelatici said:
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> Hollie said:
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> montelatici said:
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> 
> 
> What does Hitler have to do with Christians and Muslims of the Middle East?
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean the Christians of the Islamist Middle East who have largely been exterminated by your Islamist heroes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What Islamist heroes?  I despise Islamists as much as Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, two peas in a pod.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Hitler and the Mufti both monte's hero's that he worships. Are you a member of the same hero worship club
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What elected office did the Mufti hold that he could act on the behalf of the Palestinians?
Click to expand...

Actually, 


P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> montelatici said:
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> Hollie said:
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> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does Hitler have to do with Christians and Muslims of the Middle East?
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean the Christians of the Islamist Middle East who have largely been exterminated by your Islamist heroes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What Islamist heroes?  I despise Islamists as much as Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, two peas in a pod.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Hitler and the Mufti both monte's hero's that he worships. Are you a member of the same hero worship club
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What elected office did the Mufti hold that he could act on the behalf of the Palestinians?
Click to expand...


Why would an islamo-mufti need to be bothered by such things as elections? The vast majority of the Islamist world knows nothing of Western societal precepts such as rule of law,  separation of church and state and principles such as the rights of the few are not usurped by the force of the majority. Equality under the law is unknown where muhammedans rule.  

The theocratic dictatorships in Gaza'istan and Fatah'istan are common examples of the islamic thugs / misfits that have always gripped the islamist Middle East.  Moslems by and large want to be ruled by Islamist regimes, this, in spite of their propensity for economic malaise, social inequities, denigration of religious / secular minorities and gender apartheid!


----------



## American_Jihad

*A Fake Museum for a Fake Palestine*
* The Palestinian Museum is as empty as its soul. *
May 20, 2016
Daniel Greenfield





150 years ago, Mark Twain visited Muslim-occupied Israel and wrote of “unpeopled deserts” and “mounds of barrenness,” of “forlorn” and “untenanted” cities.

Palestine is “desolate,” he concluded. “One may ride ten miles hereabouts and not see ten human beings.”

The same is true of the Palestinian Museum which opened with much fanfare and one slight problem. While admission is free, there’s nothing inside for any of the visitors to see except the bare walls.

The Palestinian Museum had been in the works since 1998, but has no exhibits. The museum cost $24 million. All it has to show for it are a few low sloping sandy buildings indistinguishable from the dirt and a “garden” of scraggly bushes and shrubs. The Palestinian Museum is open, but there’s nothing inside.

It’s hard to think of a better metaphor for Palestine than a bunch of empty buildings designed by Irish and Chinese architects whose non-existent exhibits were the brainchild of its former Armenian-American director. It’s as Palestinian as bagels and cream cheese. Or skiing, hot cocoa and fjords.

Over the Palestinian Museum flies the proud flag of Palestine, which was originally the flag of the Iraqi-Jordanian Federation before the PLO “borrowed” it, and visitors might be greeted by the Palestinian anthem composed by Greek Communist Mikis Theodorakis. If it sounds anything like the soundtrack from Zorba the Greek, that’s because they both share the same composer.

All of Palestine is so authentically Palestinian that it might as well be made in China. At least that’s where the stained Keffiyahs worn by the stone throwers hurling rocks at passing Jewish families while posing heroically for Norwegian, Canadian and Chilean photojournalists are made.

Palestine is an empty building with nothing in it. It’s a political Potemkin village. There’s a flag, an anthem, a museum and all the trappings of a country. But if you look closer, there’s nothing inside.

...

A Fake Museum for a Fake Palestine


----------



## American_Jihad

*Iran: 'Israel Should Be Wiped Off The Earth'*
* How post-sanction Iran is publicly threatening Israel’s existence with impunity. *
May 20, 2016
Dr. Majid Rafizadeh





The Iranian regime has been escalating the advancement of its ballistic missile program ever since the nuclear agreement went into effect in January 2016. Some of Iran’s dangerous ballistic missiles can carry multiple warheads. 

In the last four months, Iran has launched ballistic missiles several times. Some of these missiles had a phrase "Israel should be wiped off the Earth” written on them in Hebrew. 

The Iranian regime is increasingly provoking other countries in the region and has made it clear that the ballistic missiles are aimed at targeting other nations. The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps Brig. Gen. Amir Ali Hajizadeh, the head of Iran’s Aerospace forces, said to FARS news agency (Iran’s state-controlled media outlet) that “Iran has built missiles that can hit targets at 2,000 Km. They are designed to hit Israel at such a distance.” He added that Islamic countries have surrounded Israel and “its [Israel’s] life is short. So it will collapse in any given war – long before a missile is even fired.” 

This week, an Iranian general acknowledged that Iran has recently launched ballistic missiles again. This means that Iran has breached the nuclear deal and UN resolutions for the third time in the last four months. 

Although President Obama and the Iranian regime argue that Iran’s launching of ballistic missiles is not violating anything, the UN resolutions and the nuclear agreement indicate otherwise.

The United Nations Security Council resolution (section 3 of Annex B of resolution 2231, 2015) is crystal clear. The resolution “calls upon Iran not to undertake any activity related to ballistic missiles designed to be capable of delivering nuclear weapons, including launches using such ballistic missile technology.”

The second United Nations Security Council resolution 1929 states “Iran shall not undertake any activity related to ballistic missiles capable of delivering nuclear weapons, including launches using ballistic missile technology, and that States shall take all necessary measures to prevent the transfer of technology or technical assistance to Iran related to such activities.”

In addition, the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action Agreement (JCPOA) of the nuclear agreement between P5+1 and Iran states that Iran should not undertake any ballistic missiles activity “until the date eight years after the JCPOA Adoption Day or until the date on which the IAEA submits a report confirming the Broader Conclusion, whichever is earlier.” 

But the Iranian leaders have breached both the resolutions and the nuclear agreement several times. Intriguingly, Iran has become more empowered to act militarily since the nuclear agreement.  Iran has repeatedly test-fired, long-range ballistic missiles and laser-guided surface-to-surface missiles. In October and November, just after the nuclear deal was reached, Iran tested a new ballistic missile capable of carrying multiple warheads.

...


Iran: 'Israel Should Be Wiped Off The Earth'


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
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> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Truth, hitler picked the wrong people to exterminate...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does Hitler have to do with Christians and Muslims of the Middle East?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the Christians of the Islamist Middle East who have largely been exterminated by your Islamist heroes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What Islamist heroes?  I despise Islamists as much as Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why do you defend their illegal weapons and claim they have the right to mass murder children of Israel. All you ever do on here is defend and support hamas and its terrorism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still playing the terrorism card?
> 
> Is that all you have?
Click to expand...






 Have they or have they not been officially classified as terrorist.    If they have then I am not playing the terrorist card but speaking truthfully and accurately. It is you trying to deflect and derail away from the truth that is playing the terrorist card and failing every time.

 I would have thought that illegal weapons, war crimes and terrorism would be enough to show you are batting for the wrong side


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Phoenall said:
> 
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> montelatici said:
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> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does Hitler have to do with Christians and Muslims of the Middle East?
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean the Christians of the Islamist Middle East who have largely been exterminated by your Islamist heroes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What Islamist heroes?  I despise Islamists as much as Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why do you defend their illegal weapons and claim they have the right to mass murder children of Israel. All you ever do on here is defend and support hamas and its terrorism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still playing the terrorism card?
> 
> Is that all you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have they or have they not been officially classified as terrorist.    If they have then I am not playing the terrorist card but speaking truthfully and accurately. It is you trying to deflect and derail away from the truth that is playing the terrorist card and failing every time.
> 
> I would have thought that illegal weapons, war crimes and terrorism would be enough to show you are batting for the wrong side
Click to expand...

Yeah, yeah, anyone can call names.

israel is a terrorist state - YouTube


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean the Christians of the Islamist Middle East who have largely been exterminated by your Islamist heroes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Islamist heroes?  I despise Islamists as much as Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why do you defend their illegal weapons and claim they have the right to mass murder children of Israel. All you ever do on here is defend and support hamas and its terrorism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still playing the terrorism card?
> 
> Is that all you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have they or have they not been officially classified as terrorist.    If they have then I am not playing the terrorist card but speaking truthfully and accurately. It is you trying to deflect and derail away from the truth that is playing the terrorist card and failing every time.
> 
> I would have thought that illegal weapons, war crimes and terrorism would be enough to show you are batting for the wrong side
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, anyone can call names.
> 
> israel is a terrorist state - YouTube
Click to expand...







 And all you have is some islamonazi propagandists and a failed British politician as your evidence. What have you got that is official and recognised by the world at large


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## Mindful

Public executions.

Hamas to Publicly Execute 13 Palestinians


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> 
> montelatici said:
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean the Christians of the Islamist Middle East who have largely been exterminated by your Islamist heroes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Islamist heroes?  I despise Islamists as much as Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why do you defend their illegal weapons and claim they have the right to mass murder children of Israel. All you ever do on here is defend and support hamas and its terrorism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still playing the terrorism card?
> 
> Is that all you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have they or have they not been officially classified as terrorist.    If they have then I am not playing the terrorist card but speaking truthfully and accurately. It is you trying to deflect and derail away from the truth that is playing the terrorist card and failing every time.
> 
> I would have thought that illegal weapons, war crimes and terrorism would be enough to show you are batting for the wrong side
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, anyone can call names.
> 
> israel is a terrorist state - YouTube
Click to expand...


It is NOT a terrorist state.

Get it?


----------



## Mindful

Know your history:

Know Your History: The Palestinian Arab Refugees, 1966


----------



## montelatici

American_Jihad said:


> *Iran: 'Israel Should Be Wiped Off The Earth'*
> * How post-sanction Iran is publicly threatening Israel’s existence with impunity. *
> May 20, 2016
> Dr. Majid Rafizadeh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Iranian regime has been escalating the advancement of its ballistic missile program ever since the nuclear agreement went into effect in January 2016. Some of Iran’s dangerous ballistic missiles can carry multiple warheads.
> 
> In the last four months, Iran has launched ballistic missiles several times. Some of these missiles had a phrase "Israel should be wiped off the Earth” written on them in Hebrew.
> 
> The Iranian regime is increasingly provoking other countries in the region and has made it clear that the ballistic missiles are aimed at targeting other nations. The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps Brig. Gen. Amir Ali Hajizadeh, the head of Iran’s Aerospace forces, said to FARS news agency (Iran’s state-controlled media outlet) that “Iran has built missiles that can hit targets at 2,000 Km. They are designed to hit Israel at such a distance.” He added that Islamic countries have surrounded Israel and “its [Israel’s] life is short. So it will collapse in any given war – long before a missile is even fired.”
> 
> This week, an Iranian general acknowledged that Iran has recently launched ballistic missiles again. This means that Iran has breached the nuclear deal and UN resolutions for the third time in the last four months.
> 
> Although President Obama and the Iranian regime argue that Iran’s launching of ballistic missiles is not violating anything, the UN resolutions and the nuclear agreement indicate otherwise.
> 
> The United Nations Security Council resolution (section 3 of Annex B of resolution 2231, 2015) is crystal clear. The resolution “calls upon Iran not to undertake any activity related to ballistic missiles designed to be capable of delivering nuclear weapons, including launches using such ballistic missile technology.”
> 
> The second United Nations Security Council resolution 1929 states “Iran shall not undertake any activity related to ballistic missiles capable of delivering nuclear weapons, including launches using ballistic missile technology, and that States shall take all necessary measures to prevent the transfer of technology or technical assistance to Iran related to such activities.”
> 
> In addition, the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action Agreement (JCPOA) of the nuclear agreement between P5+1 and Iran states that Iran should not undertake any ballistic missiles activity “until the date eight years after the JCPOA Adoption Day or until the date on which the IAEA submits a report confirming the Broader Conclusion, whichever is earlier.”
> 
> But the Iranian leaders have breached both the resolutions and the nuclear agreement several times. Intriguingly, Iran has become more empowered to act militarily since the nuclear agreement.  Iran has repeatedly test-fired, long-range ballistic missiles and laser-guided surface-to-surface missiles. In October and November, just after the nuclear deal was reached, Iran tested a new ballistic missile capable of carrying multiple warheads.
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> Iran: 'Israel Should Be Wiped Off The Earth'




Now they start linking to Nazi publications and to an article by a supporter of the Shah.  How extreme are the ZioNazis going to get?


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## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> montelatici said:
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> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does Hitler have to do with Christians and Muslims of the Middle East?
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean the Christians of the Islamist Middle East who have largely been exterminated by your Islamist heroes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What Islamist heroes?  I despise Islamists as much as Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why do you defend their illegal weapons and claim they have the right to mass murder children of Israel. All you ever do on here is defend and support hamas and its terrorism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still playing the terrorism card?
> 
> Is that all you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have they or have they not been officially classified as terrorist.    If they have then I am not playing the terrorist card but speaking truthfully and accurately. It is you trying to deflect and derail away from the truth that is playing the terrorist card and failing every time.
> 
> I would have thought that illegal weapons, war crimes and terrorism would be enough to show you are batting for the wrong side
Click to expand...

Have they or have they not been officially classified as terrorist.​
By a minority of countries.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> montelatici said:
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean the Christians of the Islamist Middle East who have largely been exterminated by your Islamist heroes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Islamist heroes?  I despise Islamists as much as Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why do you defend their illegal weapons and claim they have the right to mass murder children of Israel. All you ever do on here is defend and support hamas and its terrorism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still playing the terrorism card?
> 
> Is that all you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have they or have they not been officially classified as terrorist.    If they have then I am not playing the terrorist card but speaking truthfully and accurately. It is you trying to deflect and derail away from the truth that is playing the terrorist card and failing every time.
> 
> I would have thought that illegal weapons, war crimes and terrorism would be enough to show you are batting for the wrong side
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have they or have they not been officially classified as terrorist.​
> By a minority of countries.
Click to expand...

What is the official officiating agency charged with officially designating bearded islamo-loons as Islamic terrorists?


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> What Islamist heroes?  I despise Islamists as much as Zionists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why do you defend their illegal weapons and claim they have the right to mass murder children of Israel. All you ever do on here is defend and support hamas and its terrorism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still playing the terrorism card?
> 
> Is that all you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have they or have they not been officially classified as terrorist.    If they have then I am not playing the terrorist card but speaking truthfully and accurately. It is you trying to deflect and derail away from the truth that is playing the terrorist card and failing every time.
> 
> I would have thought that illegal weapons, war crimes and terrorism would be enough to show you are batting for the wrong side
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have they or have they not been officially classified as terrorist.​
> By a minority of countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is the official officiating agency charged with officially designating bearded islamo-loons as Islamic terrorists?
Click to expand...


The same one that officially designated the ANC and Mandela terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> What Islamist heroes?  I despise Islamists as much as Zionists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why do you defend their illegal weapons and claim they have the right to mass murder children of Israel. All you ever do on here is defend and support hamas and its terrorism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still playing the terrorism card?
> 
> Is that all you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have they or have they not been officially classified as terrorist.    If they have then I am not playing the terrorist card but speaking truthfully and accurately. It is you trying to deflect and derail away from the truth that is playing the terrorist card and failing every time.
> 
> I would have thought that illegal weapons, war crimes and terrorism would be enough to show you are batting for the wrong side
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have they or have they not been officially classified as terrorist.​
> By a minority of countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is the official officiating agency charged with officially designating bearded islamo-loons as Islamic terrorists?
Click to expand...

Israeli lackeys.


----------



## American_Jihad

*The ADL Turns Anti-Israel*
* Whitewashing BDS and ignoring anti-Semitism. *
May 23, 2016
Daniel Greenfield







A few years ago, the Syrian American Council sponsored a tour by Sheik Mohammad Rateb al-Nabulsi who had called for the murder of all the Jews. 

“Allah has made it a duty to fight them and wage Jihad against them,” he had declared. It was not “permissible under Sharia” to make peace with the Jews. Instead the Muslims were obligated to “fight them, to shed their blood, and wage perpetual Jihad.” 

“All the Jewish people are combatant,” he ranted. They could all be killed.

The chairman of the SAC, Hussam Ayloush described Jews as “Zionazis” and refused to condemn Hamas. 

Despite that, HIAS allied with the Syrian American Council in its push for the migration of Syrian Muslims. And the ADL chose to invite Omar Hossino of the SAC to speak at its National Leadership Summit. 

...

The ADL Turns Anti-Israel


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Iran: 'Israel Should Be Wiped Off The Earth'*
> * How post-sanction Iran is publicly threatening Israel’s existence with impunity. *
> May 20, 2016
> Dr. Majid Rafizadeh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Iranian regime has been escalating the advancement of its ballistic missile program ever since the nuclear agreement went into effect in January 2016. Some of Iran’s dangerous ballistic missiles can carry multiple warheads.
> 
> In the last four months, Iran has launched ballistic missiles several times. Some of these missiles had a phrase "Israel should be wiped off the Earth” written on them in Hebrew.
> 
> The Iranian regime is increasingly provoking other countries in the region and has made it clear that the ballistic missiles are aimed at targeting other nations. The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps Brig. Gen. Amir Ali Hajizadeh, the head of Iran’s Aerospace forces, said to FARS news agency (Iran’s state-controlled media outlet) that “Iran has built missiles that can hit targets at 2,000 Km. They are designed to hit Israel at such a distance.” He added that Islamic countries have surrounded Israel and “its [Israel’s] life is short. So it will collapse in any given war – long before a missile is even fired.”
> 
> This week, an Iranian general acknowledged that Iran has recently launched ballistic missiles again. This means that Iran has breached the nuclear deal and UN resolutions for the third time in the last four months.
> 
> Although President Obama and the Iranian regime argue that Iran’s launching of ballistic missiles is not violating anything, the UN resolutions and the nuclear agreement indicate otherwise.
> 
> The United Nations Security Council resolution (section 3 of Annex B of resolution 2231, 2015) is crystal clear. The resolution “calls upon Iran not to undertake any activity related to ballistic missiles designed to be capable of delivering nuclear weapons, including launches using such ballistic missile technology.”
> 
> The second United Nations Security Council resolution 1929 states “Iran shall not undertake any activity related to ballistic missiles capable of delivering nuclear weapons, including launches using ballistic missile technology, and that States shall take all necessary measures to prevent the transfer of technology or technical assistance to Iran related to such activities.”
> 
> In addition, the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action Agreement (JCPOA) of the nuclear agreement between P5+1 and Iran states that Iran should not undertake any ballistic missiles activity “until the date eight years after the JCPOA Adoption Day or until the date on which the IAEA submits a report confirming the Broader Conclusion, whichever is earlier.”
> 
> But the Iranian leaders have breached both the resolutions and the nuclear agreement several times. Intriguingly, Iran has become more empowered to act militarily since the nuclear agreement.  Iran has repeatedly test-fired, long-range ballistic missiles and laser-guided surface-to-surface missiles. In October and November, just after the nuclear deal was reached, Iran tested a new ballistic missile capable of carrying multiple warheads.
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> Iran: 'Israel Should Be Wiped Off The Earth'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now they start linking to Nazi publications and to an article by a supporter of the Shah.  How extreme are the ZioNazis going to get?
Click to expand...







 And another islamonazi moron posts an oxymoron.  When will one come along and explain how this works being a defender of the Jews and wanting to wipe them all out at the same time ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean the Christians of the Islamist Middle East who have largely been exterminated by your Islamist heroes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Islamist heroes?  I despise Islamists as much as Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why do you defend their illegal weapons and claim they have the right to mass murder children of Israel. All you ever do on here is defend and support hamas and its terrorism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still playing the terrorism card?
> 
> Is that all you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have they or have they not been officially classified as terrorist.    If they have then I am not playing the terrorist card but speaking truthfully and accurately. It is you trying to deflect and derail away from the truth that is playing the terrorist card and failing every time.
> 
> I would have thought that illegal weapons, war crimes and terrorism would be enough to show you are batting for the wrong side
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have they or have they not been officially classified as terrorist.​
> By a minority of countries.
Click to expand...







 No by the majority of countries that count, and as there is only one Jewish nation then that is one nation less in the list.

 How many islamonazi nations are there that voted for Israel to be seen as terrorists ?


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then why do you defend their illegal weapons and claim they have the right to mass murder children of Israel. All you ever do on here is defend and support hamas and its terrorism
> 
> 
> 
> Are you still playing the terrorism card?
> 
> Is that all you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have they or have they not been officially classified as terrorist.    If they have then I am not playing the terrorist card but speaking truthfully and accurately. It is you trying to deflect and derail away from the truth that is playing the terrorist card and failing every time.
> 
> I would have thought that illegal weapons, war crimes and terrorism would be enough to show you are batting for the wrong side
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have they or have they not been officially classified as terrorist.​
> By a minority of countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is the official officiating agency charged with officially designating bearded islamo-loons as Islamic terrorists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The same one that officially designated the ANC and Mandela terrorists.
Click to expand...







 Your stolen country by any chance, the one you invaded and forcibly stole from the indigenous inhabitants.


 So when are you going to do what you tell the Jews and give your land and property back to the first nations then move back to the European nation that spawned you. That is if it will have you back now.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then why do you defend their illegal weapons and claim they have the right to mass murder children of Israel. All you ever do on here is defend and support hamas and its terrorism
> 
> 
> 
> Are you still playing the terrorism card?
> 
> Is that all you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have they or have they not been officially classified as terrorist.    If they have then I am not playing the terrorist card but speaking truthfully and accurately. It is you trying to deflect and derail away from the truth that is playing the terrorist card and failing every time.
> 
> I would have thought that illegal weapons, war crimes and terrorism would be enough to show you are batting for the wrong side
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have they or have they not been officially classified as terrorist.​
> By a minority of countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is the official officiating agency charged with officially designating bearded islamo-loons as Islamic terrorists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli lackeys.
Click to expand...







 So Egypt, Saudi, Jordan and a few other muslim nations are Israeli lackeys. I wonder where Israel is getting all this power from as it is the smallest nation in numbers in the whole world.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then why do you defend their illegal weapons and claim they have the right to mass murder children of Israel. All you ever do on here is defend and support hamas and its terrorism
> 
> 
> 
> Are you still playing the terrorism card?
> 
> Is that all you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have they or have they not been officially classified as terrorist.    If they have then I am not playing the terrorist card but speaking truthfully and accurately. It is you trying to deflect and derail away from the truth that is playing the terrorist card and failing every time.
> 
> I would have thought that illegal weapons, war crimes and terrorism would be enough to show you are batting for the wrong side
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have they or have they not been officially classified as terrorist.​
> By a minority of countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is the official officiating agency charged with officially designating bearded islamo-loons as Islamic terrorists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli lackeys.
Click to expand...

Typically pointless. Theocratic totalitarian Islamist nations define apartheid. From the subjugation of women forced into Shame Sacks and stripped of basic human rights to the status of religious and ethnic minorities who live as second class citizens. The various polluted backwaters of Islamist nations and Islamist terrorist enclaves such as the competing versions of islam'istan in Gaza and the West Bank are an embarrassment to the relevant first world.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you still playing the terrorism card?
> 
> Is that all you have?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have they or have they not been officially classified as terrorist.    If they have then I am not playing the terrorist card but speaking truthfully and accurately. It is you trying to deflect and derail away from the truth that is playing the terrorist card and failing every time.
> 
> I would have thought that illegal weapons, war crimes and terrorism would be enough to show you are batting for the wrong side
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have they or have they not been officially classified as terrorist.​
> By a minority of countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is the official officiating agency charged with officially designating bearded islamo-loons as Islamic terrorists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli lackeys.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So Egypt, Saudi, Jordan and a few other muslim nations are Israeli lackeys. I wonder where Israel is getting all this power from as it is the smallest nation in numbers in the whole world.
Click to expand...

It is called billions in US aid.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have they or have they not been officially classified as terrorist.    If they have then I am not playing the terrorist card but speaking truthfully and accurately. It is you trying to deflect and derail away from the truth that is playing the terrorist card and failing every time.
> 
> I would have thought that illegal weapons, war crimes and terrorism would be enough to show you are batting for the wrong side
> 
> 
> 
> Have they or have they not been officially classified as terrorist.​
> By a minority of countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is the official officiating agency charged with officially designating bearded islamo-loons as Islamic terrorists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli lackeys.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So Egypt, Saudi, Jordan and a few other muslim nations are Israeli lackeys. I wonder where Israel is getting all this power from as it is the smallest nation in numbers in the whole world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is called billions in US aid.
Click to expand...

Israel is one of many nations that receives US aid. We have mutually beneficial relationships with israel, unlike we have with the islamic terrorists occupying the disputed territories.


----------



## montelatici

Our relationship with Israel is what has put us at odds with more than a 1.6 billion people, especially the common people, if not some of the dictators.  It is costing us billions.

Israel is not just one of many nations that receive U.S. aid, it receives 50% of it.  

*Israel Receives More Than Half of US Global Military Aid*

Israel Receives More Than Half of US Global Military Aid


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Our relationship with Israel is what has put us at odds with more than a 1.6 billion people, especially the common people, if not some of the dictators.  It is costing us billions.
> 
> Israel is not just one of many nations that receive U.S. aid, it receives 50% of it.
> 
> *Israel Receives More Than Half of US Global Military Aid*
> 
> Israel Receives More Than Half of US Global Military Aid



Your cutting and pasting reflects your profound ignorance of islamist ideology, your koranology and the lessons you're sleeping through at the madrassah. 

The gee-had attacks in Belgium and France are a function of the "exploding" Islamist population swarming Europe. Your Islamist  heroes are finding strength of numbers and an islamist population that provides cover and support for gee-had.


Those nations provide little aid to Israel. Your stuttering and mumbling might be laughable if it wasn't so pathetically inept.


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our relationship with Israel is what has put us at odds with more than a 1.6 billion people, especially the common people, if not some of the dictators.  It is costing us billions.
> 
> Israel is not just one of many nations that receive U.S. aid, it receives 50% of it.
> 
> *Israel Receives More Than Half of US Global Military Aid*
> 
> Israel Receives More Than Half of US Global Military Aid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your cutting and pasting reflects your profound ignorance of islamist ideology, your koranology and the lessons you're sleeping through at the madrassah.
> 
> The gee-had attacks in Belgium and France are a function of the "exploding" Islamist population swarming Europe. Your Islamist  heroes are finding strength of numbers and an islamist population that provides cover and support for gee-had.
> 
> 
> Those nations provide little aid to Israel. Your stuttering and mumbling might be laughable if it wasn't so pathetically inept.
Click to expand...


Oh dear.


----------



## American_Jihad

*The PLO’s zero-sum game*
* The time has come for the Israeli government to make some bold moves. *
January 3, 2017
Caroline Glick






Since its inception in the late 1970s, the Israeli peace movement has been based on one thing: hope.

Members of the peace movement hoped the PLO’s war with Israel could be resolved through compromise. Proponents of peace with the PLO hoped that Yasser Arafat and his terrorist minions weren’t truly committed to Israel’s destruction.

...

The Jewish community’s slavish devotion to the PLO stemmed from two sources. First, by insisting that the PLO is a credible force, the American Jewish community has been able to keep peace in its ranks, which are populated overwhelmingly by leftists.

Second, by promoting a policy at odds with reality, communal leaders have been able to pretend that there is no qualitative distinction between Democratic and Republican support for Israel. This claim, which has become downright implausible during President Barack Obama’s tenure in the White House, is vital for enabling American Jews to pretend that Israel is a voting issue for them and that they aren’t simply motivated by their leftist world views.

It would appear that the jig is up on this position.

Obama’s lame-duck war against Israel and the rise of anti-Jewish forces in the Democratic Party led by Rep. Keith Ellison make it practically impossible to continue to claim that the Democratic Party is a home for pro-Israel forces in America.

On the other hand, President-elect Donald Trump’s full-throated support for Israel and promotion of advisers who openly oppose a PLO state has opened the door for Republican lawmakers to abandon their half-hearted support for the PLO. Beginning this month, they may very well begin ending US recognition of the PLO and cut off taxpayer funds to its terrorism-cultivating autonomy in Judea and Samaria.

In this state of affairs, American Jewish groups will either support Trump and the Republicans or lose their ability to influence events. In either case, for at least the next two years, they have lost their capacity to support the Israeli Left in a significant way.

This is important for Israel to understand because the clock is ticking. Obama’s onslaught has made clear that the Democratic Party no longer supports Israel. Like the PLO, Obama and his advisers view the PLO’s conflict with Israel as a zero-sum game and they have cast their lots with the terrorists against the Jewish state.

It is to be expected that under the leadership of former president Obama and Ellison the Democrats will expand the openness of their hostility to Israel.

Under these circumstance, Israel has but two years – until the mid-term congressional elections when the Democrats may be empowered in Congress – to decide what it wants to do with Judea and Samaria.

Last week the government signaled that its first step will be to apply Israeli law to Ma’ale Adumim. A bill to this effect is expected to be brought before the government shortly after Obama leaves office.

While a good first move, our leaders must recognize that it needs to be quickly followed up by additional administrative changes. The goal of those additional steps is to dismantle the military government which administers Area C – 60% of Judea and Samaria – by 2019 and transfer full administrative responsibility for the area, which includes Israel’s border with Jordan and all the Israeli communities of Judea and Samaria, to the government.

The time has come for the government to move ahead boldly. In their post-Obama, post-2334 state, the Israeli Left and its American Jewish supporters are in no position to stop the government from doing what needs to be done. But, if the government fails to act now, when the Democrats return in two or four years, the opportunity now upon us may be lost forever as the PLO comes back to win its zerosum game against Israel.

The PLO’s zero-sum game


----------



## theliq

American_Jihad said:


> *The PLO’s zero-sum game*
> * The time has come for the Israeli government to make some bold moves. *
> January 3, 2017
> Caroline Glick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since its inception in the late 1970s, the Israeli peace movement has been based on one thing: hope.
> 
> Members of the peace movement hoped the PLO’s war with Israel could be resolved through compromise. Proponents of peace with the PLO hoped that Yasser Arafat and his terrorist minions weren’t truly committed to Israel’s destruction.
> 
> ...
> 
> The Jewish community’s slavish devotion to the PLO stemmed from two sources. First, by insisting that the PLO is a credible force, the American Jewish community has been able to keep peace in its ranks, which are populated overwhelmingly by leftists.
> 
> Second, by promoting a policy at odds with reality, communal leaders have been able to pretend that there is no qualitative distinction between Democratic and Republican support for Israel. This claim, which has become downright implausible during President Barack Obama’s tenure in the White House, is vital for enabling American Jews to pretend that Israel is a voting issue for them and that they aren’t simply motivated by their leftist world views.
> 
> It would appear that the jig is up on this position.
> 
> Obama’s lame-duck war against Israel and the rise of anti-Jewish forces in the Democratic Party led by Rep. Keith Ellison make it practically impossible to continue to claim that the Democratic Party is a home for pro-Israel forces in America.
> 
> On the other hand, President-elect Donald Trump’s full-throated support for Israel and promotion of advisers who openly oppose a PLO state has opened the door for Republican lawmakers to abandon their half-hearted support for the PLO. Beginning this month, they may very well begin ending US recognition of the PLO and cut off taxpayer funds to its terrorism-cultivating autonomy in Judea and Samaria.
> 
> In this state of affairs, American Jewish groups will either support Trump and the Republicans or lose their ability to influence events. In either case, for at least the next two years, they have lost their capacity to support the Israeli Left in a significant way.
> 
> This is important for Israel to understand because the clock is ticking. Obama’s onslaught has made clear that the Democratic Party no longer supports Israel. Like the PLO, Obama and his advisers view the PLO’s conflict with Israel as a zero-sum game and they have cast their lots with the terrorists against the Jewish state.
> 
> It is to be expected that under the leadership of former president Obama and Ellison the Democrats will expand the openness of their hostility to Israel.
> 
> Under these circumstance, Israel has but two years – until the mid-term congressional elections when the Democrats may be empowered in Congress – to decide what it wants to do with Judea and Samaria.
> 
> Last week the government signaled that its first step will be to apply Israeli law to Ma’ale Adumim. A bill to this effect is expected to be brought before the government shortly after Obama leaves office.
> 
> While a good first move, our leaders must recognize that it needs to be quickly followed up by additional administrative changes. The goal of those additional steps is to dismantle the military government which administers Area C – 60% of Judea and Samaria – by 2019 and transfer full administrative responsibility for the area, which includes Israel’s border with Jordan and all the Israeli communities of Judea and Samaria, to the government.
> 
> The time has come for the government to move ahead boldly. In their post-Obama, post-2334 state, the Israeli Left and its American Jewish supporters are in no position to stop the government from doing what needs to be done. But, if the government fails to act now, when the Democrats return in two or four years, the opportunity now upon us may be lost forever as the PLO comes back to win its zerosum game against Israel.
> 
> The PLO’s zero-sum game


Shame About The ZERO IN YOUR HEAD


----------



## theliq

American_Jihad said:


> *The PLO’s zero-sum game*
> * The time has come for the Israeli government to make some bold moves. *
> January 3, 2017
> Caroline Glick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since its inception in the late 1970s, the Israeli peace movement has been based on one thing: hope.
> 
> Members of the peace movement hoped the PLO’s war with Israel could be resolved through compromise. Proponents of peace with the PLO hoped that Yasser Arafat and his terrorist minions weren’t truly committed to Israel’s destruction.
> 
> ...
> 
> The Jewish community’s slavish devotion to the PLO stemmed from two sources. First, by insisting that the PLO is a credible force, the American Jewish community has been able to keep peace in its ranks, which are populated overwhelmingly by leftists.
> 
> Second, by promoting a policy at odds with reality, communal leaders have been able to pretend that there is no qualitative distinction between Democratic and Republican support for Israel. This claim, which has become downright implausible during President Barack Obama’s tenure in the White House, is vital for enabling American Jews to pretend that Israel is a voting issue for them and that they aren’t simply motivated by their leftist world views.
> 
> It would appear that the jig is up on this position.
> 
> Obama’s lame-duck war against Israel and the rise of anti-Jewish forces in the Democratic Party led by Rep. Keith Ellison make it practically impossible to continue to claim that the Democratic Party is a home for pro-Israel forces in America.
> 
> On the other hand, President-elect Donald Trump’s full-throated support for Israel and promotion of advisers who openly oppose a PLO state has opened the door for Republican lawmakers to abandon their half-hearted support for the PLO. Beginning this month, they may very well begin ending US recognition of the PLO and cut off taxpayer funds to its terrorism-cultivating autonomy in Judea and Samaria.
> 
> In this state of affairs, American Jewish groups will either support Trump and the Republicans or lose their ability to influence events. In either case, for at least the next two years, they have lost their capacity to support the Israeli Left in a significant way.
> 
> This is important for Israel to understand because the clock is ticking. Obama’s onslaught has made clear that the Democratic Party no longer supports Israel. Like the PLO, Obama and his advisers view the PLO’s conflict with Israel as a zero-sum game and they have cast their lots with the terrorists against the Jewish state.
> 
> It is to be expected that under the leadership of former president Obama and Ellison the Democrats will expand the openness of their hostility to Israel.
> 
> Under these circumstance, Israel has but two years – until the mid-term congressional elections when the Democrats may be empowered in Congress – to decide what it wants to do with Judea and Samaria.
> 
> Last week the government signaled that its first step will be to apply Israeli law to Ma’ale Adumim. A bill to this effect is expected to be brought before the government shortly after Obama leaves office.
> 
> While a good first move, our leaders must recognize that it needs to be quickly followed up by additional administrative changes. The goal of those additional steps is to dismantle the military government which administers Area C – 60% of Judea and Samaria – by 2019 and transfer full administrative responsibility for the area, which includes Israel’s border with Jordan and all the Israeli communities of Judea and Samaria, to the government.
> 
> The time has come for the government to move ahead boldly. In their post-Obama, post-2334 state, the Israeli Left and its American Jewish supporters are in no position to stop the government from doing what needs to be done. But, if the government fails to act now, when the Democrats return in two or four years, the opportunity now upon us may be lost forever as the PLO comes back to win its zerosum game against Israel.
> 
> The PLO’s zero-sum game


You  ZERO,do not have the intelligence to write such prose above>>>>>>>>>You have lifted this from some Banal Zionist HATE Site....you are yet another Synthetic Zionist Wannabee.....Moron


----------



## Penelope

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our relationship with Israel is what has put us at odds with more than a 1.6 billion people, especially the common people, if not some of the dictators.  It is costing us billions.
> 
> Israel is not just one of many nations that receive U.S. aid, it receives 50% of it.
> 
> *Israel Receives More Than Half of US Global Military Aid*
> 
> Israel Receives More Than Half of US Global Military Aid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your cutting and pasting reflects your profound ignorance of islamist ideology, your koranology and the lessons you're sleeping through at the madrassah.
> 
> The gee-had attacks in Belgium and France are a function of the "exploding" Islamist population swarming Europe. Your Islamist  heroes are finding strength of numbers and an islamist population that provides cover and support for gee-had.
> 
> 
> Those nations provide little aid to Israel. Your stuttering and mumbling might be laughable if it wasn't so pathetically inept.
Click to expand...


Good, and the US should quit aid to the Israelis.


----------



## Penelope

American_Jihad said:


> *Iran: 'Israel Should Be Wiped Off The Earth'*
> * How post-sanction Iran is publicly threatening Israel’s existence with impunity. *
> May 20, 2016
> Dr. Majid Rafizadeh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Iranian regime has been escalating the advancement of its ballistic missile program ever since the nuclear agreement went into effect in January 2016. Some of Iran’s dangerous ballistic missiles can carry multiple warheads.
> 
> In the last four months, Iran has launched ballistic missiles several times. Some of these missiles had a phrase "Israel should be wiped off the Earth” written on them in Hebrew.
> 
> The Iranian regime is increasingly provoking other countries in the region and has made it clear that the ballistic missiles are aimed at targeting other nations. The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps Brig. Gen. Amir Ali Hajizadeh, the head of Iran’s Aerospace forces, said to FARS news agency (Iran’s state-controlled media outlet) that “Iran has built missiles that can hit targets at 2,000 Km. They are designed to hit Israel at such a distance.” He added that Islamic countries have surrounded Israel and “its [Israel’s] life is short. So it will collapse in any given war – long before a missile is even fired.”
> 
> This week, an Iranian general acknowledged that Iran has recently launched ballistic missiles again. This means that Iran has breached the nuclear deal and UN resolutions for the third time in the last four months.
> 
> Although President Obama and the Iranian regime argue that Iran’s launching of ballistic missiles is not violating anything, the UN resolutions and the nuclear agreement indicate otherwise.
> 
> The United Nations Security Council resolution (section 3 of Annex B of resolution 2231, 2015) is crystal clear. The resolution “calls upon Iran not to undertake any activity related to ballistic missiles designed to be capable of delivering nuclear weapons, including launches using such ballistic missile technology.”
> 
> The second United Nations Security Council resolution 1929 states “Iran shall not undertake any activity related to ballistic missiles capable of delivering nuclear weapons, including launches using ballistic missile technology, and that States shall take all necessary measures to prevent the transfer of technology or technical assistance to Iran related to such activities.”
> 
> In addition, the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action Agreement (JCPOA) of the nuclear agreement between P5+1 and Iran states that Iran should not undertake any ballistic missiles activity “until the date eight years after the JCPOA Adoption Day or until the date on which the IAEA submits a report confirming the Broader Conclusion, whichever is earlier.”
> 
> But the Iranian leaders have breached both the resolutions and the nuclear agreement several times. Intriguingly, Iran has become more empowered to act militarily since the nuclear agreement.  Iran has repeatedly test-fired, long-range ballistic missiles and laser-guided surface-to-surface missiles. In October and November, just after the nuclear deal was reached, Iran tested a new ballistic missile capable of carrying multiple warheads.
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> Iran: 'Israel Should Be Wiped Off The Earth'



I am beginning to think Iran is right about Israel's regime, it is a threat to the world.  I have listened and read non stop Bibi's obsession about Iran since 1992 when he created his nice little poster of the bomb.  He is a joke, until he masterminded the Twin Towers jig, so he is a  huge dangerous joke. Israel probably has a nuclear head sub from Germany pointed right at us.  Has to be something that we put up with their BS for so long. We don't want another 911.


----------



## RoccoR

American_Jihad,  et al,

We general agree on most points (I'm happy to say.)  But there are a few points that we might (I'm not sure.) agree upon.

In the last couple of posting I've presented, there has been a strong emphasis placed on the necessity of understanding the practical aspects of "extending sovereignty."  I did this in such a way as to intentionally NOT speak to the issues surrounding the pledge made by several Israeli Ministers and certain Members of the Knesset to support bill extending full Israeli sovereignty over the City of Ma'aleh Adumim; an Area "C" settlement.

In firefighting, there conditions called a "backdraft."  This is where a new oxygen source is unexpectedly introduced into fire causing an extremely dangerous and rapid re-ignition of combustable.  The political conditions surrounding the City of Ma'aleh Adumim might just create a new military flashover.

That would not be productive.



American_Jihad said:


> January 3, 2017
> •  It is to be expected that under the leadership of former president Obama and Ellison the Democrats will expand the openness of their hostility to Israel.
> 
> Under these circumstance, Israel has but two years – until the mid-term congressional elections when the Democrats may be empowered in Congress – to decide what it wants to do with Judea and Samaria.


*(COMMENT)*

This I do not understand.  The practical ground considerations is a Israeli matter; not one for the US Congress should be concerned with.  The US Foreign Policy for the Middle East Regions has an extremely poor track record in attaining positive results in the Arab-Israeli Conflict.  And as for UN involvement, the consolidate body has not got the politics right since 1922.



American_Jihad said:


> January 3, 2017
> •  Last week the government signaled that its first step will be to apply Israeli law to Ma’ale Adumim. A bill to this effect is expected to be brought before the government shortly after Obama leaves office.
> 
> While a good first move, our leaders must recognize that it needs to be quickly followed up by additional administrative changes. The goal of those additional steps is to dismantle the military government which administers Area C – 60% of Judea and Samaria – by 2019 and transfer full administrative responsibility for the area, which includes Israel’s border with Jordan and all the Israeli communities of Judea and Samaria, to the government.


*(COMMENT)*

Again, this is something that the Israelis must come to grips with, and resolve.  If the US applies political pressures on either party _(Israels of Palestinians)_ it will just come back apart.  

Both sides must want a peaceful settlement.

The Palestinian crybaby whining about Israel did this and Israel did that --- trying to cite violations of international law, will get them nowhere.  The Arab Palestinians argue that they have every right to conduct such operations against sovereign Israel.

Bombings
Kidnappings and Hostage-Takings  
Armed Attacks and Assassinations 
Arsons and Firebombings 
Hijackings and Skyjackings
etc​


 ​


American_Jihad said:


> January 3, 2017
> •  The time has come for the government to move ahead boldly. In their post-Obama, post-2334 state, the Israeli Left and its American Jewish supporters are in no position to stop the government from doing what needs to be done. But, if the government fails to act now, when the Democrats return in two or four years, the opportunity now upon us may be lost forever as the PLO comes back to win its zerosum game against Israel.
> 
> *Caroline Glick* > The PLO’s zero-sum game


*(COMMENT)*

Israel cannot not afford to play a "Zero-Sum" game.  The Area "C" issues are just about the future of the West Bank, but the ability to at least have some chance of defending Israel in a political climate that the Arab Palestinians have set.  Remember the end-state; the dismantlement of Israel and every Jewish institution.

Palestinian Authority, celebrated its 52nd anniversary on Saturday. They used the occasion to heap praise on some of the most vicious Islamist terrorists in Israeli history, despite being ostensibly a secular organization.

Just last Saturday, Hostile Arab Palestinians praised Islamist Terrorist and Organizations in their work against Israel; this was at the New Year's Day celebration and 52nd Anniversary of Fatah.

Yes, the Zero Sum Game can be healthy as long as Israel does not suffer and setbacks.  The Arab Palestinians usually has lost more then it gained.  But Israel could in trouble with just one loss. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> In the last couple of posting I've presented, there has been a strong emphasis placed on the necessity of understanding the practical aspects of "extending sovereignty."


A euphemism for illegally stealing more land.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our relationship with Israel is what has put us at odds with more than a 1.6 billion people, especially the common people, if not some of the dictators.  It is costing us billions.
> 
> Israel is not just one of many nations that receive U.S. aid, it receives 50% of it.
> 
> *Israel Receives More Than Half of US Global Military Aid*
> 
> Israel Receives More Than Half of US Global Military Aid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your cutting and pasting reflects your profound ignorance of islamist ideology, your koranology and the lessons you're sleeping through at the madrassah.
> 
> The gee-had attacks in Belgium and France are a function of the "exploding" Islamist population swarming Europe. Your Islamist  heroes are finding strength of numbers and an islamist population that provides cover and support for gee-had.
> 
> 
> Those nations provide little aid to Israel. Your stuttering and mumbling might be laughable if it wasn't so pathetically inept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh dear.
Click to expand...

Oh dear. I'm sure the Arab-Moslem world would greatly appreciate more of the compliant, well behaved dhimmis like you. Unfortunately, your groveling at the altar of appeasement will make no difference. The Islamist  gee-had knows no geographic borders or passage of time. 

Grovel to the Islamic beast as you wish, it will only be viewed as weakness and surrender. Ask the Europeans how well their dhimmitude is working out.


----------



## Phoenall

Penelope said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our relationship with Israel is what has put us at odds with more than a 1.6 billion people, especially the common people, if not some of the dictators.  It is costing us billions.
> 
> Israel is not just one of many nations that receive U.S. aid, it receives 50% of it.
> 
> *Israel Receives More Than Half of US Global Military Aid*
> 
> Israel Receives More Than Half of US Global Military Aid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your cutting and pasting reflects your profound ignorance of islamist ideology, your koranology and the lessons you're sleeping through at the madrassah.
> 
> The gee-had attacks in Belgium and France are a function of the "exploding" Islamist population swarming Europe. Your Islamist  heroes are finding strength of numbers and an islamist population that provides cover and support for gee-had.
> 
> 
> Those nations provide little aid to Israel. Your stuttering and mumbling might be laughable if it wasn't so pathetically inept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good, and the US should quit aid to the Israelis.
Click to expand...







 Yes please, as this would mean the muslims would also stop receiving aid as they are tied to the same treaties. Then stop the money going to the UN to help house all the crack heads and alckies.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the last couple of posting I've presented, there has been a strong emphasis placed on the necessity of understanding the practical aspects of "extending sovereignty."
> 
> 
> 
> A euphemism for illegally stealing more land.
Click to expand...







 Then tell the arab muslims to stop doing it. They have stolen Jewish lands to the sum of 3 times the size of Israel and you ignore this every time


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the last couple of posting I've presented, there has been a strong emphasis placed on the necessity of understanding the practical aspects of "extending sovereignty."
> 
> 
> 
> A euphemism for illegally stealing more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then tell the arab muslims to stop doing it. They have stolen Jewish lands to the sum of 3 times the size of Israel and you ignore this every time
Click to expand...

The Palestinians stole Jewish land?

Link?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the last couple of posting I've presented, there has been a strong emphasis placed on the necessity of understanding the practical aspects of "extending sovereignty."
> 
> 
> 
> A euphemism for illegally stealing more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then tell the arab muslims to stop doing it. They have stolen Jewish lands to the sum of 3 times the size of Israel and you ignore this every time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians stole Jewish land?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...






Jewish Refugees of 1948


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the last couple of posting I've presented, there has been a strong emphasis placed on the necessity of understanding the practical aspects of "extending sovereignty."
> 
> 
> 
> A euphemism for illegally stealing more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then tell the arab muslims to stop doing it. They have stolen Jewish lands to the sum of 3 times the size of Israel and you ignore this every time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians stole Jewish land?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Refugees of 1948
Click to expand...

Deflection.

Thus roughly one million Jews became refugees because of actions of Middle Eastern and North African countries.​
Palestine was not the perp.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our relationship with Israel is what has put us at odds with more than a 1.6 billion people, especially the common people, if not some of the dictators.  It is costing us billions.
> 
> Israel is not just one of many nations that receive U.S. aid, it receives 50% of it.
> 
> *Israel Receives More Than Half of US Global Military Aid*
> 
> Israel Receives More Than Half of US Global Military Aid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your cutting and pasting reflects your profound ignorance of islamist ideology, your koranology and the lessons you're sleeping through at the madrassah.
> 
> The gee-had attacks in Belgium and France are a function of the "exploding" Islamist population swarming Europe. Your Islamist  heroes are finding strength of numbers and an islamist population that provides cover and support for gee-had.
> 
> 
> Those nations provide little aid to Israel. Your stuttering and mumbling might be laughable if it wasn't so pathetically inept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh dear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh dear. I'm sure the Arab-Moslem world would greatly appreciate more of the compliant, well behaved dhimmis like you. Unfortunately, your groveling at the altar of appeasement will make no difference. The Islamist  gee-had knows no geographic borders or passage of time.
> 
> Grovel to the Islamic beast as you wish, it will only be viewed as weakness and surrender. Ask the Europeans how well their dhimmitude is working out.
Click to expand...

*Rabid Arab Rabble*

The Paleonasties don't want land, they want missile bases.


----------



## American_Jihad

*The Two-State Solution is a Zombie*
* It can’t be dead because it never lived. *
January 6, 2017
Daniel Greenfield






“Is the two-state solution dead?”

The two-state solution, a perverse euphemism for carving an Islamic terror state out of the land of Israel and the living flesh of her people, is in trouble. The solution, which has solved nothing except the shortage of graves in Israel and Muslim terrorists in the Middle East, is the object of grave concern by the professionally concerned from Foggy Bottom to Fifth Avenue.

Obama set up his betrayal of Israel at the UN to “save” the two-state solution from Trump. The media warns that David Friedman, Trump’s pick for ambassador, is so pro-Israel that he’ll kill the “solution.”

But you can’t kill something that was never alive.

The two-state solution is a zombie. It can’t be dead because it never lived. It was a rotting shambling corpse of a diplomatic process. If you stood downwind of the proceedings, it looked alive.

Up close there was only blood and death.

Like the Holy Roman Empire, the two-state solution didn’t solve anything and it wasn’t in the business of creating two states. Not unless you count a Hamas state in Gaza and a Fatah state in the West Bank.

What problem was the two-state solution solving?

It wasn’t the problem of terrorism. Turning over land, weapons and power to a bunch of terrorists made for more terrorism. It’s no coincidence that Islamic terrorism worldwide shot up around the same time. 

The consequences of giving terrorists their own country to play with were as predictable as taking a power drill to the bottom of a boat or running a toaster in a bubble bath. The least likely outcome of handing guns to homicidal sociopaths was peace. The most likely was murder. And that was as intended.

The problem that the two-state solution was solving was the existence of Israel; the Jewish Problem.

Spray the two-state solution over an irritating country full of Jews who managed to survive multiple Muslim genocides. Apply and wait for as long as it takes until the Jewish Problem is solved again.

The two-state solution didn’t end the violence. It turned it up to eleven. It didn’t even create a Palestinian state. But it did a moderately decent job of solving the Jewish Problem by killing Jews.

It killed thousands of them. It filled cemeteries, ethnically cleansed towns and villages, and brought war to Jerusalem and Tel Aviv for the first time in a generation. It turned terror from an aberration into a routine. It made death into a way of life for the Muslim population controlled by the terrorists and the Jewish population targeted by them. It endangered the existence of Israel for the first time since 1973.

The two-state solution isn’t dead. It is death. 

...

It’s never worked before, but there’s always an Nth time.

Lies are zombies. They are mimicries of the truth that feed off what we wish to be true.

The two-state solution is a parasite that thrives by feeding off our hopes and fears, our optimism on the one hand and our inability to imagine an alternative on the other. When we see the lie for what it is, when we turn our hopes and fears to sustaining what we truly care about, then it will fall.

Real solutions, such as Caroline Glick’s Israeli Solution, already exist. 

The two-state solution however never existed. There will only be one state in Israel. The question is whether it will be a Jewish State or an Islamic terror state. 

The Two-State Solution is a Zombie


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the last couple of posting I've presented, there has been a strong emphasis placed on the necessity of understanding the practical aspects of "extending sovereignty."
> 
> 
> 
> A euphemism for illegally stealing more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then tell the arab muslims to stop doing it. They have stolen Jewish lands to the sum of 3 times the size of Israel and you ignore this every time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians stole Jewish land?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Refugees of 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Thus roughly one million Jews became refugees because of actions of Middle Eastern and North African countries.​
> Palestine was not the perp.
Click to expand...









WRONG as many Jews were forcibly evicted from the west bank and Jerusalem at the same time by the palestinians from both banks of the river Jordan. Then they passed laws making the Jews title null and void and gave the land to any new arrivals.

Dont you read anything that tells the truth about the arab muslims


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A euphemism for illegally stealing more land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then tell the arab muslims to stop doing it. They have stolen Jewish lands to the sum of 3 times the size of Israel and you ignore this every time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians stole Jewish land?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Refugees of 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Thus roughly one million Jews became refugees because of actions of Middle Eastern and North African countries.​
> Palestine was not the perp.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WRONG as many Jews were forcibly evicted from the west bank and Jerusalem at the same time by the palestinians from both banks of the river Jordan. Then they passed laws making the Jews title null and void and gave the land to any new arrivals.
> 
> Dont you read anything that tells the truth about the arab muslims
Click to expand...

That was Israel's Jordan buddies who did that.

You need to keep up.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then tell the arab muslims to stop doing it. They have stolen Jewish lands to the sum of 3 times the size of Israel and you ignore this every time
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians stole Jewish land?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Refugees of 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Thus roughly one million Jews became refugees because of actions of Middle Eastern and North African countries.​
> Palestine was not the perp.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WRONG as many Jews were forcibly evicted from the west bank and Jerusalem at the same time by the palestinians from both banks of the river Jordan. Then they passed laws making the Jews title null and void and gave the land to any new arrivals.
> 
> Dont you read anything that tells the truth about the arab muslims
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was Israel's Jordan buddies who did that.
> 
> You need to keep up.
Click to expand...







 Still palestinians if you look at the historical records, and didnt the palestinians accept being ruled by Jordan in 1949 so they could get all the Jewish homes already built for them


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians stole Jewish land?
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Refugees of 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Thus roughly one million Jews became refugees because of actions of Middle Eastern and North African countries.​
> Palestine was not the perp.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WRONG as many Jews were forcibly evicted from the west bank and Jerusalem at the same time by the palestinians from both banks of the river Jordan. Then they passed laws making the Jews title null and void and gave the land to any new arrivals.
> 
> Dont you read anything that tells the truth about the arab muslims
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was Israel's Jordan buddies who did that.
> 
> You need to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still palestinians if you look at the historical records, and didnt the palestinians accept being ruled by Jordan in 1949 so they could get all the Jewish homes already built for them
Click to expand...

Not really. Jordan is a story itself.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Refugees of 1948
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Thus roughly one million Jews became refugees because of actions of Middle Eastern and North African countries.​
> Palestine was not the perp.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WRONG as many Jews were forcibly evicted from the west bank and Jerusalem at the same time by the palestinians from both banks of the river Jordan. Then they passed laws making the Jews title null and void and gave the land to any new arrivals.
> 
> Dont you read anything that tells the truth about the arab muslims
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was Israel's Jordan buddies who did that.
> 
> You need to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still palestinians if you look at the historical records, and didnt the palestinians accept being ruled by Jordan in 1949 so they could get all the Jewish homes already built for them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. Jordan is a story itself.
Click to expand...








 Nope it is all part of the bigger picture, with Abdullah wangling to be the next Caliph. And the inhabitants that he took as his subjects were all palestinians


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## American_Jihad

*NETANYAHU, CONGRESS, AIPAC AND THE PLO*
* The whitewashing of the PLO must end. *
January 10, 2017
Caroline Glick





It is not in the least surprising that the PLO-controlled Palestinian Authority did not condemn the terrorist attack on Sunday. It is not surprising because the PLO-controlled PA encouraged the attack.

As Khaled Abu Toameh wrote for the Gatestone Institute, in the aftermath of last month’s US-enabled passage of UN Security Council Resolution 2334, which criminalizes Israel, the PA went on the warpath.

Among other things, Muhammad Abu Shtayyeh, who serves as a close adviser to PLO chief and PA leader Mahmoud Abbas called for an intensification of terrorist attacks against Israelis. Shtayyeh said that now is the time to “bolster the popular resistance” against Israel.

As Abu Toameh noted, “‘Popular resistance’ is code for throwing stones and petrol bombs and carrying out stabbing and car-ramming attacks against Israelis.”

Sunday’s terrorist murderer probably was inspired by Islamic State, and its adherents’ recent truck ramming murder sprees in Nice and Berlin, as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said.

But Sunday’s 28-year-old cold blooded killer hailed from Jerusalem, not Nice.

His brain was washed since he was five years old by the PLO-controlled PA’s steady cycle of jihadist incitement.

From the time he was in preschool, the killer was indoctrinated to aspire to commit the mass murder of Jews he carried out on Sunday.

For 23 years, Israel and the US have empowered the PLO.

During this period, the terrorist group never took any concrete steps to promote peace. At no point in the past generation has a PLO leader ever told the Palestinians or supporters abroad that the time has come to bury the hatchet and accept Israel.

Instead, for 23 years, the PLO has openly supported Israel’s annihilation. Often that support has been stated in code words like “popular resistance” which everyone understands means murder.

To make it easy for Americans and Israelis to continue funding, arming, training and of course, recognizing the PLO as a “moderate” organization despite its continued sponsorship of terrorism, PLO members are always happy to talk about a “two-state solution” with Westerners that wish to be lied to.

...

Certainly it is hard to argue they would have opposed it if the vote was delayed until January 21. Indeed, it is hard to understand why it was necessary to pass the resolution while President Barack Obama – who partnered with the PLO to pass 2334 – is still in office.

Resolution 2334’s passage must be viewed as an inflection point. It is no longer possible to credibly argue that the PLO is remotely interested in peace with Israel. Sunday’s murderous terrorist attack Jerusalem was further testament of this truth.

The time has come for Israelis and Israel’s supporters in the US to demand that our leaders – from Prime Minister Netanyahu to AIPAC to members of Congress – finally recognize and act of this truth. The whitewashing of the PLO must end.

NETANYAHU, CONGRESS, AIPAC AND THE PLO


----------



## montelatici

These nutters have no qualms about linking to Zionist propaganda sites yet would complain mightily if anyone linked Electronic Intifada.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> These nutters have no qualms about linking to Zionist propaganda sites yet would complain mightily if anyone linked Electronic Intifada.








 They are only Zionist propaganda sites in your fantasy world, until you prove it you are just blowing hot air.


----------



## American_Jihad

*100 Islamic Terror Attacks in Israel in Bloody January*
February 17, 2017
Daniel Greenfield





European countries are slowly confronting the reality of having a large hostile Muslim population inside their borders. But this is what it's really like on a day to day basis. There are a few countries that have been dealing with for a while. Israel is one. India is another. 

It's just a constant onslaught of attacks to which there is no peaceful solution.

...

Most of these don't make the headlines, but imagine living in a small country where there are some 100 attacks every month. Much of this Islamic violence continues to be funded by foreign aid, from the US and Europe, to the Palestinian Authority, which pays the "salaries" of anyone who attempts to kill or succeeds in killing Israelis.

It must end.

Whatever anti-Israel groups like J Street or If Not Now claim, the policies they advocate perpetuate this anti-Semitic violence

100 Islamic Terror Attacks in Israel in Bloody January


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> These nutters have no qualms about linking to Zionist propaganda sites yet would complain mightily if anyone linked Electronic Intifada.



Why the whining? You have repeatedly cut and pasted silly Pallywood Studios YouTube videos starring Shirley Temper, hoping to represent those as somehow legitimate.


----------



## American_Jihad

*The Lessons Of The Hamas War *
* Israel's strategic mistake. *
March 3, 2017
Caroline Glick





_Originally published by the Jerusalem Post. _

The State Comptroller’s Report on Operation Protective Edge, Israel’s war with Hamas in the summer of 2014, is exceedingly detailed. The problem is that it addresses the wrong details.

Israel’s problem with Hamas wasn’t its tactics for destroying Hamas’s attack tunnels. Israel faced two challenges in its war with Hamas that summer. The first had to do with the regional and global context of the war. The second had to do with its understanding of its enemy on the ground.

War between Hamas and Israel took place as the Sunni Arab world was steeped a two-pronged existential struggle. On the one hand, Sunni regimes fought jihadist groups that emerged from the Muslim Brotherhood movement. On the other, they fought against Iran and its proxies in a bid to block Iran’s moves toward regional hegemony.

On both fronts, the Sunni regimes, led by Egypt under President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, the Saudi regime and the United Arab Emirates, were shocked to discover that the Obama administration was siding with their enemies against them.

If Israel went into the war against Hamas thinking that the Obama administration would treat it differently than it treated the Sunni regimes, it quickly discovered that it was mistaken. From the outset of the battle between Hamas and Israel, the Obama administration supported Hamas against Israel.

America’s support for Hamas was expressed at the earliest stages of the war when then-secretary of state John Kerry demanded that Israel accept an immediate cease-fire based entirely on Hamas’s terms. This demand, in various forms, remained the administration’s position throughout the 50-day war.

Hamas’s terms were impossible for Israel. They included opening the jihadist regime’s land borders with Israel and Egypt, and providing it with open access to the sea. Hamas demanded to be reconnected to the international banking system in order to enable funds to enter Gaza freely from any spot on the globe. Hamas also demanded that Israel release its terrorists from its prisons.

If Israel had accepted any of Hamas’s cease-fire terms, its agreement would have constituted a strategic defeat for Israel and a historic victory for Hamas.

Open borders for Hamas means the free flow of armaments, recruits, trainers and money to Gaza. Were Hamas to be connected to the international banking system, the jihadist regime would have become the banking center of the global jihad.

The Obama administration’s support for Hamas was not passive.

Obama and Kerry threatened to join the Europeans in condemning Israel at the UN. Administration officials continuously railed against IDF operations in Gaza, insinuating that Israel was committing war crimes by insisting that Israel wasn’t doing enough to avoid civilian casualties.

As the war progressed, the administration’s actions against Israel became more aggressive. Washington placed a partial embargo on weapons shipments to Israel.

Then on July 23, 2014, the administration took the almost inconceivable step of having the Federal Aviation Administration ban flights of US carriers to Ben-Gurion Airport for 36 hours. The flight ban was instituted after a Hamas missile fell a mile from the airport.

The FAA did not ban flights to Pakistan or Afghanistan after jihadists on the ground successfully bombed airplanes out of the sky.

It took Sen. Ted Cruz’s threat to place a hold on all State Department appointments, and Canada’s Conservative Party government’s behind-the-scenes diplomatic revolt to get the flight ban rescinded.

The government and the IDF were shocked by the ferocity of the administration’s hostility. But to his great credit, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu surmounted it.

Netanyahu realized that Hamas is part of the Muslim Brotherhood nexus of jihad and also supported by Iran. As a result the Egyptians, Saudis and UAE rightly view it as a major enemy. Indeed, Egypt was in a state of war with Hamas in 2014. Gaza serves as the logistical base of the Salafist forces warring against the Egyptian military.

Netanyahu asked Sisi for help in blunting the American campaign for Hamas. Sisi was quick to agree and brought the Saudis and the UAE into an all-but-declared operational alliance with Israel against Hamas.

Since the Egyptians were hosting the cease-fire talks, Egypt was well-positioned to blunt Obama’s demand that Israel accept Hamas’s cease-fire terms.

In a bid to undermine Egypt, Obama and Kerry colluded with Hamas’s state sponsors Turkey and Qatar to push Sisi out of the cease-fire discussions. But due to Saudi and UAE support for Sisi and Israel, the administration’s attempts to sideline the Egyptians failed.

The cease-fire terms that were adopted at the end of the war contained none of Hamas’s demands. Israel had won the diplomatic war.

It was a strange victory, however. Netanyahu was never able to let the public know what was happening.

Had he informed the public, the knowledge that the US was backing Hamas would have caused mass demoralization and panic. So Netanyahu had to fight the diplomatic fight of his life secretly.

The war on the ground was greatly influenced by the diplomatic war. But the war on the ground was first and foremost a product of the nature of Hamas and of the nature of Hamas’s relationship with the PLO.

...

The Comptroller’s Report is notable mainly because it shows that nearly three years after Protective Edge, official Israel still doesn’t understand what happened that summer. The problem with Hamas was never tactical. It was always strategic. Israel won the diplomatic battle because it understood the correlation of its strategic interests with those of the Sunni regimes.

It lost the military battle of attrition because it permitted Hamas to resupply.

The Lessons Of The Hamas War


----------



## montelatici

The little Fascist linking to Fascist sites.  Do you think anyone besides Fascist punks believe the fake news from those sites?


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> The little Fascist linking to Fascist sites.  Do you think anyone besides Fascist punks believe the fake news from those sites?



How is this for Death Cult identity?

*PLO names children's camp after terrorist who murdered 37 - PMW Bulletins

PLO names youth camp after terrorist 
who led murder of 37

"Brothers of Dalal" youth camp is a project of the PLO Supreme Council for Youth and Sports, headed by Fatah Central Committee Secretary Jibril Rajoub

Dalal Mughrabi led the 1978 Coastal Road Massacre, 
in which terrorists hijacked a bus and killed 37 civilians, including 12 children 

"Dr. Ghannam... welcomed [the delegation's] efforts to hold a camp named after Martyr Dalal Mughrabi. She praised the creative initiative and its goals, and particularly everything connected to remembering the pure-hearted Martyrs... She also ordered all of the parties involved to do all that is necessary so that the solidarity rally will take place in a fashion worthy of Martyr Mughrabi, her comrades (i.e., the other terrorists participating in the 1978 Coastal Road massacre), and all of Palestine's Martyrs."
[Facebook page of the PLO Supreme Council for Youth and Sports, Feb. 27, 2017 and official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Feb. 28, 2017]


*
Such is the Death Cult.


----------



## American_Jihad

*MYSTERIOUS LIQUIDATION OF SENIOR HAMAS TERRORIST LEAVES GROUP UNHINGED
Hamas promises vengeance after death of senior terrorist while Israel places its forces on high alert.*
March 30, 2017

Ari Lieberman






Mazen Faqha's career as a Palestinian terrorist came to an abrupt end this past Friday when a gunman or perhaps more than one gunman, pumped four bullets into his brain. According to his wife, the two had just returned home from a trip and the liquidation occurred just outside their home in the Gaza City neighborhood of Tel Al Hawa. “I didn’t feel or hear a thing,” she said, adding that, “everything happened quietly.” Hamas officials claimed that a silencer was used in the shooting though they offered no proof.

Whoever wanted him dead wanted to be sure that the job was completed successfully, thus the use of redundant measures. It was a clean kill without collateral damage and no gratuitous violence – almost business-like. The assassin or assassins escaped undetected.

As far as terrorists are concerned, Faqha was as bad as they come. In 2002, he recruited a suicide bomber to carry out a suicide attack that resulted in the deaths of nine Israelis. Later that year, he was apprehended by Israeli security forces after an intensive dragnet. He received nine life sentences for his role in the bombing only to be released in 2011 in the deleterious Gilad Schalit prisoner exchange where some 1,000 terrorists were released for the captive Israeli.

...

The killing of Mazen Faqha has left Hamas unhinged and nervous. Israel has a long memory and even a longer reach and Hamas terrorists are not sleeping comfortably these days. But regardless of who killed Mazen Faqha, the world is clearly a better place without him in it.

Mysterious Liquidation of Senior Hamas Terrorist Leaves Group Unhinged


----------



## montelatici

"*Israeli murdered in Costa Rica*
Media outlets in Costa Rica reported on Thursday that a 40-year-old Israeli was shot dead in the neighborhood of Savannah in the capital of San Jose.

Israeli murdered in Costa Rica

That was quick.


----------



## American_Jihad

montelatici said:


> "*Israeli murdered in Costa Rica*
> Media outlets in Costa Rica reported on Thursday that a 40-year-old Israeli was shot dead in the neighborhood of Savannah in the capital of San Jose.
> 
> Israeli murdered in Costa Rica
> 
> That was quick.








...


----------



## American_Jihad

*10 TOXIC TERMS PRO-ISRAEL ADVOCATES MUST FIGHT*
*The phrases we must stop repeating.*
March 31, 2017

Lee Bender and Jerome Verlin






Mainstream Western media coverage of Israel is laced with expressions intentionally crafted to delegitimize the Jewish State. The good news is that these terms weren’t written in stone 3,300 years ago, but are post-Israel independence creations. By forfeiting this language, we forfeit our history. Here are 10 phrases we must stop repeating:

...

...

10 TOXIC TERMS PRO-ISRAEL ADVOCATES MUST FIGHT


----------



## American_Jihad

*PALESTINIANS EXPLOITING CHILDREN TO FIGHT ISRAEL*
*Where is the international outrage?*
April 7, 2017

Noah Beck





The new Palestinian curriculum for grades 1 to 4 “is significantly more radical than previous curricula,” concludes a new study by Hebrew University’s Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education (IMPACT-se). It “teaches students to be martyrs, demonizes and denies the existence of Israel, and focuses on a ‘return’ to an exclusively Palestinian homeland.”

...

The “Palestinian school curricula are inspected by the international donors who finance the Palestinian Authority and, by extension, its public education system,” the _Times of Israel_ reported.

That includes huge investment from Britain, the _Daily Mail_ reported, money that goes “into Palestinian schools named after mass murderers and Islamist militants, which openly promote terrorism and encourage pupils to see child killers as role models.”

...

Reforming the anti-Israel indoctrination of Palestinian children will not be easy. Palestinians reportedly responded with threats over reports that the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian Refugees (UNRWA) is considering curricular changes that might curtail incitement.

Nevertheless, if world powers are serious about promoting a genuine Israeli-Palestinian peace, they must pressure Palestinian leaders to start preparing future generations for peace by replacing anti-Israel incitement and “martyrdom” adulation with messages of peaceful coexistence, including maps and history that acknowledge Jewish claims to Israel proper and territories in dispute.

Palestinians Exploiting Children to Fight Israel


----------



## American_Jihad

*PALESTINIAN TV: DON'T BEAT WOMEN... TOO HARD*
April 6, 2017

Daniel Greenfield





Islamist anti-Israel activist and Women's March organizer Linda Sarsour has claimed that Zionist women can't be feminists. I've questioned whether Islamists like her can be feminists. But here's another question, can supporters of her Palestinian terror state which airs programs like this be feminists?

Here, courtesy of Palestinian Media Watch, is the moderate liberal Islamic position on beating your wife. Don't do it too hard.

...

Of course intersectional feminists will just post one of their cartoons mocking the impulse of white feminists to liberate powerful Muslim women of color from their hijabs and from being smacked around by their husbands.

And who's paying for all this? The PA is funded by the United States. And yes we're still funding it.

But the most important thing to remember is that in between the beatings, rapes, child abuse and sex slavery, Mohammed, the founder of Islam, was the original feminist. If you doubt that, just ask one of his sex slaves.

Palestinian TV: Don't Beat Women... Too Hard


----------



## P F Tinmore

American_Jihad said:


> *PALESTINIAN TV: DON'T BEAT WOMEN... TOO HARD*
> April 6, 2017
> 
> Daniel Greenfield
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamist anti-Israel activist and Women's March organizer Linda Sarsour has claimed that Zionist women can't be feminists. I've questioned whether Islamists like her can be feminists. But here's another question, can supporters of her Palestinian terror state which airs programs like this be feminists?
> 
> Here, courtesy of Palestinian Media Watch, is the moderate liberal Islamic position on beating your wife. Don't do it too hard.
> 
> ...
> 
> Of course intersectional feminists will just post one of their cartoons mocking the impulse of white feminists to liberate powerful Muslim women of color from their hijabs and from being smacked around by their husbands.
> 
> And who's paying for all this? The PA is funded by the United States. And yes we're still funding it.
> 
> But the most important thing to remember is that in between the beatings, rapes, child abuse and sex slavery, Mohammed, the founder of Islam, was the original feminist. If you doubt that, just ask one of his sex slaves.
> 
> Palestinian TV: Don't Beat Women... Too Hard


And domestic violence is so prevalent in the US that we have special laws do deal with it.

Do you have a point?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *PALESTINIAN TV: DON'T BEAT WOMEN... TOO HARD*
> April 6, 2017
> 
> Daniel Greenfield
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamist anti-Israel activist and Women's March organizer Linda Sarsour has claimed that Zionist women can't be feminists. I've questioned whether Islamists like her can be feminists. But here's another question, can supporters of her Palestinian terror state which airs programs like this be feminists?
> 
> Here, courtesy of Palestinian Media Watch, is the moderate liberal Islamic position on beating your wife. Don't do it too hard.
> 
> ...
> 
> Of course intersectional feminists will just post one of their cartoons mocking the impulse of white feminists to liberate powerful Muslim women of color from their hijabs and from being smacked around by their husbands.
> 
> And who's paying for all this? The PA is funded by the United States. And yes we're still funding it.
> 
> But the most important thing to remember is that in between the beatings, rapes, child abuse and sex slavery, Mohammed, the founder of Islam, was the original feminist. If you doubt that, just ask one of his sex slaves.
> 
> Palestinian TV: Don't Beat Women... Too Hard
> 
> 
> 
> And domestic violence is so prevalent in the US that we have special laws do deal with it.
> 
> Do you have a point?
Click to expand...


What you fail to realize is that the legal code here in the Great Satan is not based upon a 7th century theocratic code invented by an Arab warlord. 

Have you ever had a point?


----------



## American_Jihad

*DO PALESTINIAN ARABS WANT A PEACEFUL STATE ALONGSIDE ISRAEL?*
*What consistent polling of Palestinians tells us.*
May 3, 2017

Morton A. Klein and Daniel Mandel






Discussion of the Arab/Israeli situation is often unilluminating because so much of it is based on groundless assumptions and stubborn fictions. Perhaps the most pervasive one today afflicting the international political class is the notion that Palestinian Arabs primarily desire a state of their own, living peacefully alongside Israel.

...

The PA, after all, is a regime that names schools, streets, sports teams and youth camps in honor of suicide bombers, pay stipends to jailed terrorists and pensions to the families of dead ones. It also routinely denies that Jews have any connection with Jerusalem or the land. When, in February, UN Secretary-General António Guterres correctly stated that the Jewish biblical temples stood on Jerusalem’s Temple Mount, PA officials and publicists publicly upbraided him.

How, then, does the myth of Palestinian desire for peaceful statehood and acceptance of Israel persist?

...

Until the facts are faced, don’t expect edifying public discussion of the subject. President Trump broke new ground when he publicly pointed to the “tremendous hate” inculcated into Palestinian youth and non-acceptance of Israel that would have to change before peace becomes possible. In this he is correct. The “ultimate deal” that brings peace will have to await a change of heart and direction in Palestinian society.

Do Palestinian Arabs Want a Peaceful State Alongside Israel?


----------



## montelatici

Israel names streets after bombers and terrorists. Israel has elected terrorists and murderers as their leaders.


----------



## American_Jihad

*THE NEW, “MODERATE” HAMAS: SEVERE CRUELTY TO JEWISH AND ARAB PRISONERS AND THEIR FAMILIES*
*Even an anti-Israeli NGO is appalled.*
May 5, 2017

P. David Hornik





...

That and the intra-Palestinian struggle for power and influence; with Palestinian Authority chairman Mahmoud Abbas set, at that time, to meet with President Trump in Washington on Wednesday, Hamas wanted to keep itself in the public eye and try to boost its respectability.

In what appears to be bad timing for the group, however, on Tuesday Human Rights Watch released a report that puts the “pragmatic and civilized movement” in a very negative light.

Significantly, Human Rights Watch is no friend of Israel. As NGO Monitor notes, HRW exhibits “a deep-seated ideological bias against Israel,” regularly accuses it of war crimes, calls for the boycott of Israeli communities in the West Bank, and much else.

In “2 Israelis Who Entered Gaza Held Incommunicado,” however, even HRW is unsparing in its criticism of Hamas.

The two Israelis are Avraham Mangistu, of Ethiopian Jewish background, and Hisham al-Sayed, of Muslim Bedouin background. Mangistu is believed to have wandered into Gaza in September 2014, Sayed in April 2015. 

...

The New, “Moderate” Hamas: Severe Cruelty to Jewish and Arab Prisoners and Their Families


----------



## American_Jihad

*PALESTINIANS USE DECEPTION FOR GREATER ACCEPTANCE*
*As always, the words don't match the deeds.*
May 11, 2017

Noah Beck





*Originally written for the Investigative Project on Terrorism.*

The two main political groups that claim to represent Palestinians – the Islamist terror group Hamas and the Palestinian Authority (PA) – have embarked on new campaigns of deception in order to gain greater international acceptance.

PA President Mahmoud Abbas met with President Donald Trump last week to discuss the peace process. He blatantly lied throughout his public remarks.

Speaking before Abbas, Trump said that “there cannot be lasting peace unless the Palestinian leaders speak in a unified voice against incitement to...violence and hate...All children of God must be taught to value and respect human life, and condemn all of those who target the innocent.”

Abbas then made statements that seemed intended to allay Trump’s fears: “I affirm to you that we are raising our youth, our children, our grandchildren on a culture of peace,” Abbas said. “And we are endeavoring to bring about security, freedom and peace for our children to live like the other children in the world, along with the Israeli children in peace, freedom and security.”

...

Palestinians Use Deception for Greater Acceptance


----------



## American_Jihad

*HEZBOLLAH’S ANTI-ISRAEL RHETORIC REACHES FEVER PITCH*
*But Nasrallah should be careful what he wishes for.*
May 16, 2017

Ari Lieberman





Last Thursday, Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah boasted in a televised address (he rarely makes live appearances) that the next war with Israel would be waged in Israeli territory. Nasrallah said that Israel was “scared and worried... and knows that [war] could be inside the occupied Palestinian territories.” Nasrallah’s tough rhetoric is somewhat peculiar as it comes from a man who’s been living underground for the past 11 years and rarely resides at any given location for any lengthy period of time for fear of being at the receiving end of Israel’s long arm.

Nasrallah’s speech was meant to mark the one year anniversary of the liquidation of Hezbollah’s chief of special operations Mustafa Badreddine, who was killed in Syria under mysterious circumstances. Badreddine replaced Imad Mughniyeh in that capacity. Mughniyeh himself was killed in 2008 in Damascus in a hit widely believed to have been executed by Mossad and CIA operatives in a joint operation. 

Nasrallah’s bombast is eerily reminiscent of Arab rhetoric just prior to the June 1967 Six-Day War, which ended badly for the Arabs. Calls for an Arab invasion and Israel’s destruction reached fever pitch in the days preceding the war, with Arab leaders vying for top spot in the shrill contest. 

...

Hezbollah’s Anti-Israel Rhetoric Reaches Fever Pitch


----------



## P F Tinmore

American_Jihad said:


> *PALESTINIANS EXPLOITING CHILDREN TO FIGHT ISRAEL*
> *Where is the international outrage?*
> April 7, 2017
> 
> Noah Beck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The new Palestinian curriculum for grades 1 to 4 “is significantly more radical than previous curricula,” concludes a new study by Hebrew University’s Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education (IMPACT-se). It “teaches students to be martyrs, demonizes and denies the existence of Israel, and focuses on a ‘return’ to an exclusively Palestinian homeland.”
> 
> ...
> 
> The “Palestinian school curricula are inspected by the international donors who finance the Palestinian Authority and, by extension, its public education system,” the _Times of Israel_ reported.
> 
> That includes huge investment from Britain, the _Daily Mail_ reported, money that goes “into Palestinian schools named after mass murderers and Islamist militants, which openly promote terrorism and encourage pupils to see child killers as role models.”
> 
> ...
> 
> Reforming the anti-Israel indoctrination of Palestinian children will not be easy. Palestinians reportedly responded with threats over reports that the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian Refugees (UNRWA) is considering curricular changes that might curtail incitement.
> 
> Nevertheless, if world powers are serious about promoting a genuine Israeli-Palestinian peace, they must pressure Palestinian leaders to start preparing future generations for peace by replacing anti-Israel incitement and “martyrdom” adulation with messages of peaceful coexistence, including maps and history that acknowledge Jewish claims to Israel proper and territories in dispute.
> 
> Palestinians Exploiting Children to Fight Israel


And these assholes think that kids hate Israel because of what they learn in school.


----------



## P F Tinmore

American_Jihad said:


> *PALESTINIANS USE DECEPTION FOR GREATER ACCEPTANCE*
> *As always, the words don't match the deeds.*
> May 11, 2017
> 
> Noah Beck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Originally written for the Investigative Project on Terrorism.*
> 
> The two main political groups that claim to represent Palestinians – the Islamist terror group Hamas and the Palestinian Authority (PA) – have embarked on new campaigns of deception in order to gain greater international acceptance.
> 
> PA President Mahmoud Abbas met with President Donald Trump last week to discuss the peace process. He blatantly lied throughout his public remarks.
> 
> Speaking before Abbas, Trump said that “there cannot be lasting peace unless the Palestinian leaders speak in a unified voice against incitement to...violence and hate...All children of God must be taught to value and respect human life, and condemn all of those who target the innocent.”
> 
> Abbas then made statements that seemed intended to allay Trump’s fears: “I affirm to you that we are raising our youth, our children, our grandchildren on a culture of peace,” Abbas said. “And we are endeavoring to bring about security, freedom and peace for our children to live like the other children in the world, along with the Israeli children in peace, freedom and security.”
> 
> ...
> 
> Palestinians Use Deception for Greater Acceptance


*Investigative Project on Terrorism
*
A name like that has schlock outfit written all over it.


----------



## American_Jihad

*AMERICAN GREATNESS AND THE PLO*
*The creation of a PLO state will not make the Middle East more stable.*
May 17, 2017

Caroline Glick





Eight years from now, China will outstrip the US as the world’s largest economy. In three years, Israeli GDP per capita will outstrip Japan’s. These two data points are useful to bear in mind as we consider the Trump administration’s sudden decision to go retro and embrace the Clinton administration’s foreign policy on Israel from the early 1990s.

When then US president Bill Clinton decided to embrace Yasser Arafat, the architect of modern terrorism, it seemed like a safe bet.

...

AMERICAN GREATNESS AND THE PLO


----------



## American_Jihad

*HOW TO SOLVE THE PALESTINIAN PROBLEM*
*…and bring peace to the Middle East.*
May 19, 2017

Daniel Greenfield





In 1990, there were half as many Palestinians as Kuwaitis in Kuwait. Two years later there were almost none.

With the support of the international community, some 700,000 Kuwaitis expelled hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their country. If they had not done it, basic arithmetic shows that the Palestinians would have outnumbered Kuwaitis in Kuwait in a generation.

The Palestinians of Kuwait were kidnapped, tortured and killed.  "Kill a Palestinian and Go to Heaven,” became the slogan. When Kuwait was “liberated”, tanks and armored vehicles were sent into the Hawally suburb of Kuwait City known as Little Palestine. Half the buildings were knocked down by bulldozers. Some detained Palestinians were buried in mass graves. The vast majority, including those who had been born in Kuwait, were deported or forced to flee a land they had lived in for a generation.

The violent ethnic cleansing of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians went mostly unremarked. While the Kuwaitis were ethnically cleansing their Palestinians, they continued to fund Palestinian terror against Israel and condemn Israel for violating the human rights of those they were deporting.

And the world shrugged.

...

How to Solve the Palestinian Problem


----------



## American_Jihad

*MR. PRESIDENT: IT’S A FAKE DEAL*
*What a closer look at the Palestinian negotiation strategy reveals.*
May 23, 2017

Ran Baratz





...

The Israeli-Palestinian negotiations history is the best example of inflexible ideology, contradicted to its core by the real-world outcomes and lessons of experience.

If the President is still unconvinced and wants proof ahead of failure, I would ask him to perform a simple test: before he commits to negotiations, he should ask the Palestinians for their peace plan – the Israelis’ he has long had. If he receives one, by all means,  try another round of negotiations. But if the Palestinians send him – as Arafat used to say – “to drink Gaza’s sea water,” it’s a sign that nothing has changed and failure is looming on the horizon.

This doesn’t suggest that there is no path forward. With realistic expectations and an understanding of both sides, there are many things that can be done. But, as strange as this may sound to him, his biggest success would be to concede in advance the attempt to reach the “most difficult deal” – because it is a fake deal. The best thing to do is to let the misleading peace dogma finally rest in peace.

Mr. President: It’s a Fake Deal


----------



## P F Tinmore

Front Page Rag and World Nut Daily are both Israeli propaganda organizations.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Front Page Rag and World Nut Daily are both Israeli propaganda organizations.



Calling it 'propaganda' is not a reason to dismiss the points presented.
If You have anything substantial to say please do.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Front Page Rag and World Nut Daily are both Israeli propaganda organizations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Calling it 'propaganda' is not a reason to dismiss the points presented.
> If You have anything substantial to say please do.
Click to expand...

They are propaganda *because* of the points presented.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Front Page Rag and World Nut Daily are both Israeli propaganda organizations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Calling it 'propaganda' is not a reason to dismiss the points presented.
> If You have anything substantial to say please do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are propaganda *because* of the points presented.
Click to expand...


You still haven't  presented anything.

Why do You fuel the hate between those 2 close peoples?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Front Page Rag and World Nut Daily are both Israeli propaganda organizations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Calling it 'propaganda' is not a reason to dismiss the points presented.
> If You have anything substantial to say please do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are propaganda *because* of the points presented.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You still haven't  presented anything.
> 
> Why do You fuel the hate between those 2 close peoples?
Click to expand...

The Israeli assholes fuel their own hate.


----------



## Sixties Fan

How the Palestinian People were born (but Jew haters will never own up to it )   :

The emergence of a distinctive Palestinian entity is thus a product of the last decades and may be seen as the joint creation of Israel and the Arab states葉he one by extruding the Arabs of Palestine, the others by refusing to accept them. According to pan-Arab or even pan-Syrian ideologies, Palestinian Arabs moving to Lebanon, Syria, or Jordan should still have been men in their own country, moving from one province to another. The bitter experience of the past twenty-seven years has shown that this is not so and, as so often before, deprivation has created a new sense of identity based on shared experience, desperation, and aspiration.And that is born out by the following graphs:

The first graph shows the usage of the words "" and "" in books published in English from 1800 to 2008.





While the phrase "Palestinian Jew" was common from about 1825, back then the phrase "Palestinian Arab was practically unknown. That began to change around 1915 -- during WWI and increased during the British Mandate and spiked following the 1967 Six Day War.






The next graph illustrates that as the phrase "Palestinian Arab" became more common, so too did the word "Palestinian" which we know today is associated with the Palestinian Arabs in particular.

(full article online)

Arab Palestinians Originally Hated the Word -- Yet Here We Are (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## montelatici

Not one mention of Israel from a real historian. 


 "91. From that division which begins with the city of Posideion, founded by
Amphilochos the son of Amphiaraos on the borders of the Kilikians and the
Syrians, and extends as far as Egypt, not including the territory of the
Arabians (for this was free from payment), the amount was three hundred and
fifty talents; and in this division are the whole of Phenicia and Syria
which is called *Palestine *and Cyprus: this is the fifth division.


Now in the line stretching to Phenicia from the land of the Persians the
land is broad and the space abundant, but after Phenicia this peninsula goes
by the shore of our Sea along *Palestine*, Syria, and Egypt, where it ends;
*and in it there are three nations only.*"

Herodotus "Histories" circa 450 BC.

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2707


----------



## montelatici

Or a more recent Jewish historian.

"As neither the Byzantines nor the Muslims carried out any large-scale population resettlement projects, the Christians were the offspring of the Jewish and Samaritan farmers who converted to Christianity in the Byzantine period; while the Muslim fellaheen in Palestine in modern times are descendants of those Christians who were the descendants of Jews, and had turned to Islam before the Crusaders’ conquest."

Professor Maxime Rodinson, Professor of law at the Sorbonne University in Paris, . Israel and the Arabs, 1968.

Israel and the Arabs

Try the snippets if you don't want to buy the book.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Not one mention of Israel from a real historian.
> 
> 
> "91. From that division which begins with the city of Posideion, founded by
> Amphilochos the son of Amphiaraos on the borders of the Kilikians and the
> Syrians, and extends as far as Egypt, not including the territory of the
> Arabians (for this was free from payment), the amount was three hundred and
> fifty talents; and in this division are the whole of Phenicia and Syria
> which is called *Palestine *and Cyprus: this is the fifth division.
> 
> 
> Now in the line stretching to Phenicia from the land of the Persians the
> land is broad and the space abundant, but after Phenicia this peninsula goes
> by the shore of our Sea along *Palestine*, Syria, and Egypt, where it ends;
> *and in it there are three nations only.*"
> 
> Herodotus "Histories" circa 450 BC.
> 
> http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2707



Really not ONE mention of Israelites in history?

oh professor...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> How the Palestinian People were born (but Jew haters will never own up to it )   :
> 
> The emergence of a distinctive Palestinian entity is thus a product of the last decades and may be seen as the joint creation of Israel and the Arab states葉he one by extruding the Arabs of Palestine, the others by refusing to accept them. According to pan-Arab or even pan-Syrian ideologies, Palestinian Arabs moving to Lebanon, Syria, or Jordan should still have been men in their own country, moving from one province to another. The bitter experience of the past twenty-seven years has shown that this is not so and, as so often before, deprivation has created a new sense of identity based on shared experience, desperation, and aspiration.And that is born out by the following graphs:
> 
> The first graph shows the usage of the words "" and "" in books published in English from 1800 to 2008.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While the phrase "Palestinian Jew" was common from about 1825, back then the phrase "Palestinian Arab was practically unknown. That began to change around 1915 -- during WWI and increased during the British Mandate and spiked following the 1967 Six Day War.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The next graph illustrates that as the phrase "Palestinian Arab" became more common, so too did the word "Palestinian" which we know today is associated with the Palestinian Arabs in particular.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Arab Palestinians Originally Hated the Word -- Yet Here We Are (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


A  rose by any other name...


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not one mention of Israel from a real historian.
> 
> 
> "91. From that division which begins with the city of Posideion, founded by
> Amphilochos the son of Amphiaraos on the borders of the Kilikians and the
> Syrians, and extends as far as Egypt, not including the territory of the
> Arabians (for this was free from payment), the amount was three hundred and
> fifty talents; and in this division are the whole of Phenicia and Syria
> which is called *Palestine *and Cyprus: this is the fifth division.
> 
> 
> Now in the line stretching to Phenicia from the land of the Persians the
> land is broad and the space abundant, but after Phenicia this peninsula goes
> by the shore of our Sea along *Palestine*, Syria, and Egypt, where it ends;
> *and in it there are three nations only.*"
> 
> Herodotus "Histories" circa 450 BC.
> 
> http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2707
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really not ONE mention of Israelites in history?
> 
> oh professor...
Click to expand...


"Histories" is what Herodotus's work is called. LOL You really aren't the sharpest knife in the drawer.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not one mention of Israel from a real historian.
> 
> 
> "91. From that division which begins with the city of Posideion, founded by
> Amphilochos the son of Amphiaraos on the borders of the Kilikians and the
> Syrians, and extends as far as Egypt, not including the territory of the
> Arabians (for this was free from payment), the amount was three hundred and
> fifty talents; and in this division are the whole of Phenicia and Syria
> which is called *Palestine *and Cyprus: this is the fifth division.
> 
> 
> Now in the line stretching to Phenicia from the land of the Persians the
> land is broad and the space abundant, but after Phenicia this peninsula goes
> by the shore of our Sea along *Palestine*, Syria, and Egypt, where it ends;
> *and in it there are three nations only.*"
> 
> Herodotus "Histories" circa 450 BC.
> 
> http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2707
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really not ONE mention of Israelites in history?
> 
> oh professor...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Histories" is what Herodotus's work is called. LOL You really aren't the sharpest knife in the drawer.
Click to expand...


You wrote:
_"Not one mention of Israel from a real historian"._

And I ask again: not ONE mention of Israelites from authoritative historians?


----------



## montelatici

Herodotus is the only acknowleged authoritative historian from that era that we have.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Herodotus is the only acknowleged authoritative historian from that era that we have.



So all Your knowledge of history in that area comes from one single historian?
Interesting, I'll investigate.


----------



## rylah

However what's the reason the Palestinian Arabs hold on to their occupiers' culture so hard?
Why not go back to the roots?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian identity was established by law at the end of WWI.

So why the debate?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian identity was established by law at the end of WWI.
> 
> So why the debate?



Actually, "Pal'istanian" as an invented identity was not established until about 1967 when Yassir Arafat invented "Pal'istanian" as a slogan to add a national identity to an invented people. 

That invention has morphed into a forever UN sponsored welfare fraud and quite a collection of Islamic terrorist franchises, all sucking on the welfare fraud spigot.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian identity was established by law at the end of WWI.
> 
> So why the debate?



Heritage is stronger than any ink on a piece of paper.
The debate is because it seems Palestinians so much oppose 'occupation' while at the same time hold on to occupiers culture, as if they've lost all connection to their roots

Speaking foreign language, no distinct culture...they prefer occupiers' identity (Roman/Arab) while denying anything that originally came from the land, and their brothers - Jews,  who're culturally more Palestinian than themselves.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian identity was established by law at the end of WWI.
> 
> So why the debate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, "Pal'istanian" as an invented identity was not established until about 1967 when Yassir Arafat invented "Pal'istanian" as a slogan to add a national identity to an invented people.
> 
> That invention has morphed into a forever UN sponsored welfare fraud and quite a collection of Islamic terrorist franchises, all sucking on the welfare fraud spigot.
Click to expand...

You are shoveling Israeli shit, as usual.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian identity was established by law at the end of WWI.
> 
> So why the debate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heritage is stronger than any ink on a piece of paper.
> The debate is because it seems Palestinians so much oppose 'occupation' while at the same time hold on to occupiers culture, as if they've lost all connection to their roots
> 
> Speaking foreign language, no distinct culture...they prefer occupiers' identity (Roman/Arab) while denying anything that originally came from the land, and their brothers - Jews,  who're culturally more Palestinian than themselves.
Click to expand...

The Palestinians are Palestinian by law. They are citizens of Palestine by law. Palestine is defined by international borders.

Israeli blabber cannot change any of that.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian identity was established by law at the end of WWI.
> 
> So why the debate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heritage is stronger than any ink on a piece of paper.
> The debate is because it seems Palestinians so much oppose 'occupation' while at the same time hold on to occupiers culture, as if they've lost all connection to their roots
> 
> Speaking foreign language, no distinct culture...they prefer occupiers' identity (Roman/Arab) while denying anything that originally came from the land, and their brothers - Jews,  who're culturally more Palestinian than themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are Palestinian by law. They are citizens of Palestine by law. Palestine is defined by international borders.
> 
> Israeli blabber cannot change any of that.
Click to expand...


Nor can Arab Muslim blabber change the three magic words in all the relevant documents.  

JEWISH.  NATIONAL.  HOME.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian identity was established by law at the end of WWI.
> 
> So why the debate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heritage is stronger than any ink on a piece of paper.
> The debate is because it seems Palestinians so much oppose 'occupation' while at the same time hold on to occupiers culture, as if they've lost all connection to their roots
> 
> Speaking foreign language, no distinct culture...they prefer occupiers' identity (Roman/Arab) while denying anything that originally came from the land, and their brothers - Jews,  who're culturally more Palestinian than themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are Palestinian by law. They are citizens of Palestine by law. Palestine is defined by international borders.
> 
> Israeli blabber cannot change any of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nor can Arab Muslim blabber change the three magic words in all the relevant documents.
> 
> JEWISH.  NATIONAL.  HOME.
Click to expand...

Doesn't change the law any.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian identity was established by law at the end of WWI.
> 
> So why the debate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heritage is stronger than any ink on a piece of paper.
> The debate is because it seems Palestinians so much oppose 'occupation' while at the same time hold on to occupiers culture, as if they've lost all connection to their roots
> 
> Speaking foreign language, no distinct culture...they prefer occupiers' identity (Roman/Arab) while denying anything that originally came from the land, and their brothers - Jews,  who're culturally more Palestinian than themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are Palestinian by law. They are citizens of Palestine by law. Palestine is defined by international borders.
> 
> Israeli blabber cannot change any of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nor can Arab Muslim blabber change the three magic words in all the relevant documents.
> 
> JEWISH.  NATIONAL.  HOME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Doesn't change the law any.
Click to expand...


Treaties ARE law.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian identity was established by law at the end of WWI.
> 
> So why the debate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heritage is stronger than any ink on a piece of paper.
> The debate is because it seems Palestinians so much oppose 'occupation' while at the same time hold on to occupiers culture, as if they've lost all connection to their roots
> 
> Speaking foreign language, no distinct culture...they prefer occupiers' identity (Roman/Arab) while denying anything that originally came from the land, and their brothers - Jews,  who're culturally more Palestinian than themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are Palestinian by law. They are citizens of Palestine by law. Palestine is defined by international borders.
> 
> Israeli blabber cannot change any of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nor can Arab Muslim blabber change the three magic words in all the relevant documents.
> 
> JEWISH.  NATIONAL.  HOME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Doesn't change the law any.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Treaties ARE law.
Click to expand...

They are. That is what I stated in my post.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian identity was established by law at the end of WWI.
> 
> So why the debate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heritage is stronger than any ink on a piece of paper.
> The debate is because it seems Palestinians so much oppose 'occupation' while at the same time hold on to occupiers culture, as if they've lost all connection to their roots
> 
> Speaking foreign language, no distinct culture...they prefer occupiers' identity (Roman/Arab) while denying anything that originally came from the land, and their brothers - Jews,  who're culturally more Palestinian than themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are Palestinian by law. They are citizens of Palestine by law. Palestine is defined by international borders.
> 
> Israeli blabber cannot change any of that.
Click to expand...


Were it the Palestinians themselves that decided and wrote that law, or did they again receive their identity from the occupiers?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian identity was established by law at the end of WWI.
> 
> So why the debate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, "Pal'istanian" as an invented identity was not established until about 1967 when Yassir Arafat invented "Pal'istanian" as a slogan to add a national identity to an invented people.
> 
> That invention has morphed into a forever UN sponsored welfare fraud and quite a collection of Islamic terrorist franchises, all sucking on the welfare fraud spigot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are shoveling Israeli shit, as usual.
Click to expand...

You're just infuriated that facts contradict your specious opinions.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian identity was established by law at the end of WWI.
> 
> So why the debate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, "Pal'istanian" as an invented identity was not established until about 1967 when Yassir Arafat invented "Pal'istanian" as a slogan to add a national identity to an invented people.
> 
> That invention has morphed into a forever UN sponsored welfare fraud and quite a collection of Islamic terrorist franchises, all sucking on the welfare fraud spigot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are shoveling Israeli shit, as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're just infuriated that facts contradict your specious opinions.
Click to expand...

My facts are solid. You have posted nothing to refute them.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian identity was established by law at the end of WWI.
> 
> So why the debate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, "Pal'istanian" as an invented identity was not established until about 1967 when Yassir Arafat invented "Pal'istanian" as a slogan to add a national identity to an invented people.
> 
> That invention has morphed into a forever UN sponsored welfare fraud and quite a collection of Islamic terrorist franchises, all sucking on the welfare fraud spigot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are shoveling Israeli shit, as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're just infuriated that facts contradict your specious opinions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My facts are solid. You have posted nothing to refute them.
Click to expand...


Your're a bit confused regarding your specious opinions being substituted for "phactz"


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian identity was established by law at the end of WWI.
> 
> So why the debate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, "Pal'istanian" as an invented identity was not established until about 1967 when Yassir Arafat invented "Pal'istanian" as a slogan to add a national identity to an invented people.
> 
> That invention has morphed into a forever UN sponsored welfare fraud and quite a collection of Islamic terrorist franchises, all sucking on the welfare fraud spigot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are shoveling Israeli shit, as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're just infuriated that facts contradict your specious opinions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My facts are solid. You have posted nothing to refute them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your're a bit confused regarding your specious opinions being substituted for "phactz"
Click to expand...

Still nothing to refute my facts, huh?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, "Pal'istanian" as an invented identity was not established until about 1967 when Yassir Arafat invented "Pal'istanian" as a slogan to add a national identity to an invented people.
> 
> That invention has morphed into a forever UN sponsored welfare fraud and quite a collection of Islamic terrorist franchises, all sucking on the welfare fraud spigot.
> 
> 
> 
> You are shoveling Israeli shit, as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're just infuriated that facts contradict your specious opinions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My facts are solid. You have posted nothing to refute them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your're a bit confused regarding your specious opinions being substituted for "phactz"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still nothing to refute my facts, huh?
Click to expand...

Couldn't find any facts (meaning a cut and paste YouTube video) to chuckle at.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian identity was established by law at the end of WWI.
> 
> So why the debate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, "Pal'istanian" as an invented identity was not established until about 1967 when Yassir Arafat invented "Pal'istanian" as a slogan to add a national identity to an invented people.
> 
> That invention has morphed into a forever UN sponsored welfare fraud and quite a collection of Islamic terrorist franchises, all sucking on the welfare fraud spigot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are shoveling Israeli shit, as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're just infuriated that facts contradict your specious opinions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My facts are solid. You have posted nothing to refute them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your're a bit confused regarding your specious opinions being substituted for "phactz"
Click to expand...

Still nothing to refute my facts, huh?


Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are shoveling Israeli shit, as usual.
> 
> 
> 
> You're just infuriated that facts contradict your specious opinions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My facts are solid. You have posted nothing to refute them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your're a bit confused regarding your specious opinions being substituted for "phactz"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still nothing to refute my facts, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Couldn't find any facts (meaning a cut and paste YouTube video) to chuckle at.
Click to expand...


Keep dancing.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, "Pal'istanian" as an invented identity was not established until about 1967 when Yassir Arafat invented "Pal'istanian" as a slogan to add a national identity to an invented people.
> 
> That invention has morphed into a forever UN sponsored welfare fraud and quite a collection of Islamic terrorist franchises, all sucking on the welfare fraud spigot.
> 
> 
> 
> You are shoveling Israeli shit, as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're just infuriated that facts contradict your specious opinions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My facts are solid. You have posted nothing to refute them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your're a bit confused regarding your specious opinions being substituted for "phactz"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still nothing to refute my facts, huh?
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're just infuriated that facts contradict your specious opinions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My facts are solid. You have posted nothing to refute them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your're a bit confused regarding your specious opinions being substituted for "phactz"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still nothing to refute my facts, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Couldn't find any facts (meaning a cut and paste YouTube video) to chuckle at.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keep dancing.
Click to expand...


I was expecting your usual retreat to cartoons. That's a typical pattern of behaviour when you have no supportable argument.


----------



## Bleipriester

How can one deny a Palestinian identity when there are millions who feel Palestine? Only those who insist on a Kurdish state can, I guess.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are shoveling Israeli shit, as usual.
> 
> 
> 
> You're just infuriated that facts contradict your specious opinions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My facts are solid. You have posted nothing to refute them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your're a bit confused regarding your specious opinions being substituted for "phactz"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still nothing to refute my facts, huh?
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> My facts are solid. You have posted nothing to refute them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your're a bit confused regarding your specious opinions being substituted for "phactz"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still nothing to refute my facts, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Couldn't find any facts (meaning a cut and paste YouTube video) to chuckle at.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keep dancing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was expecting your usual retreat to cartoons. That's a typical pattern of behaviour when you have no supportable argument.
Click to expand...

Still ducking the issue, huh?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're just infuriated that facts contradict your specious opinions.
> 
> 
> 
> My facts are solid. You have posted nothing to refute them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your're a bit confused regarding your specious opinions being substituted for "phactz"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still nothing to refute my facts, huh?
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your're a bit confused regarding your specious opinions being substituted for "phactz"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still nothing to refute my facts, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Couldn't find any facts (meaning a cut and paste YouTube video) to chuckle at.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keep dancing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was expecting your usual retreat to cartoons. That's a typical pattern of behaviour when you have no supportable argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still ducking the issue, huh?
Click to expand...


What issue?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> My facts are solid. You have posted nothing to refute them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your're a bit confused regarding your specious opinions being substituted for "phactz"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still nothing to refute my facts, huh?
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still nothing to refute my facts, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Couldn't find any facts (meaning a cut and paste YouTube video) to chuckle at.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keep dancing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was expecting your usual retreat to cartoons. That's a typical pattern of behaviour when you have no supportable argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still ducking the issue, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What issue?
Click to expand...

The one you have been ducking the last couple pages.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your're a bit confused regarding your specious opinions being substituted for "phactz"
> 
> 
> 
> Still nothing to refute my facts, huh?
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Couldn't find any facts (meaning a cut and paste YouTube video) to chuckle at.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keep dancing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was expecting your usual retreat to cartoons. That's a typical pattern of behaviour when you have no supportable argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still ducking the issue, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The one you have been ducking the last couple pages.
Click to expand...


What one?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still nothing to refute my facts, huh?
> 
> Keep dancing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was expecting your usual retreat to cartoons. That's a typical pattern of behaviour when you have no supportable argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still ducking the issue, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The one you have been ducking the last couple pages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What one?
Click to expand...

Indeed, you duck everything.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was expecting your usual retreat to cartoons. That's a typical pattern of behaviour when you have no supportable argument.
> 
> 
> 
> Still ducking the issue, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The one you have been ducking the last couple pages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What one?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, you duck everything.
Click to expand...

Indeed, you're forever befuddled.


----------



## American_Jihad

*THE ONLY BOOK ON PALESTINIAN HISTORY YOU WILL EVER NEED TO READ*
*A historian counters mendacity with powerful satire.*
June 23, 2017

Ari Lieberman






...

The notion of “Palestinian history” is farcical and Voll’s understated but illuminating point unabashedly exposes this abject lie. The name “Palestine” is an invented name concocted by the Roman Emperor Hadrian. 

In 132 CE, the Jews of Judea (alternatively known as Eretz Israel) launched an open revolt against Roman occupation of their land. Led by its charismatic leader, Simon Bar Kochva, the anti-Roman insurgency nearly succeeded, as evidenced by archaeological discoveries and historical accounts but was ultimately suppressed some three years late after intense and bitter fightingr.

Hadrian was keenly aware and understood that the Jews could never be defeated by force of arms alone. He believed that in order to defeat the Jews, he needed to break their spirit as well. He therefore embarked on a bitter campaign of severing the Jewish nexus to the Land of Israel. Among his many cruel edicts was the renaming of the city of Jerusalem to “Aelia Capitolina” and the Land of Israel to “Palestine.” While the former name was never accepted, the latter abominable renaming unfortunately stuck and over time supplanted the land’s historical and original naming. 

To be clear, there has never in the history of mankind been a Palestinian state, a Palestinian capital, a distinct Palestinian language, currency or culture. In December 2011, Newt Gingrich noted this indisputable fact and made the following observation; 

“Remember there was no Palestine as a state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire. And I think that we've had an invented Palestinian people, who are in fact Arabs, and were historically part of the Arab community…”

...

The Only Book On Palestinian History You Will Ever Need To Read


----------



## Challenger

American_Jihad said:


> *THE ONLY BOOK ON PALESTINIAN HISTORY YOU WILL EVER NEED TO READ*
> *A historian counters mendacity with powerful satire.*
> June 23, 2017
> 
> Ari Lieberman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> The notion of “Palestinian history” is farcical and Voll’s understated but illuminating point unabashedly exposes this abject lie. The name “Palestine” is an invented name concocted by the Roman Emperor Hadrian.
> 
> In 132 CE, the Jews of Judea (alternatively known as Eretz Israel) launched an open revolt against Roman occupation of their land. Led by its charismatic leader, Simon Bar Kochva, the anti-Roman insurgency nearly succeeded, as evidenced by archaeological discoveries and historical accounts but was ultimately suppressed some three years late after intense and bitter fightingr.
> 
> Hadrian was keenly aware and understood that the Jews could never be defeated by force of arms alone. He believed that in order to defeat the Jews, he needed to break their spirit as well. He therefore embarked on a bitter campaign of severing the Jewish nexus to the Land of Israel. Among his many cruel edicts was the renaming of the city of Jerusalem to “Aelia Capitolina” and the Land of Israel to “Palestine.” While the former name was never accepted, the latter abominable renaming unfortunately stuck and over time supplanted the land’s historical and original naming.
> 
> To be clear, there has never in the history of mankind been a Palestinian state, a Palestinian capital, a distinct Palestinian language, currency or culture. In December 2011, Newt Gingrich noted this indisputable fact and made the following observation;
> 
> “Remember there was no Palestine as a state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire. And I think that we've had an invented Palestinian people, who are in fact Arabs, and were historically part of the Arab community…”
> 
> ...
> 
> The Only Book On Palestinian History You Will Ever Need To Read



Oh good grief. Really? 

"Voll's argument that the Palestinians are not a people because they are void of history isn't new – it is a mainstay of the Israeli right, which has claimed that Palestinian nationalism was invented by the Arab leaders in order to destroy Israel. In reality, Palestinian history goes back hundreds of years. What is relatively new, however, is Palestinian nationalism, which only began to appear in the early 20th century and coalesced into a national movement after 1948.

The argument used by the Israeli right seems to imply that a group may only call itself "a people" if it has always existed, which is false because all peoples have at one point or another come into being.

The argument is belied by the fact that there are actual histories of Palestine being sold on Amazon, which are longer and whose pages do contain text delineating this history. "The Palestinian People: A History" by Baruch Kimmerling and Joel S. Migdal, "A History of Palestine: From the Ottoman Conquest to the Founding of the State of Israel" by Gudrun Krämer and Graham Harman and "The History of Palestine" by John Kitto are some examples."

Empty book on Palestinian history becomes instant best-seller on Amazon

Too easy.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Challenger said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *THE ONLY BOOK ON PALESTINIAN HISTORY YOU WILL EVER NEED TO READ*
> *A historian counters mendacity with powerful satire.*
> June 23, 2017
> 
> Ari Lieberman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> The notion of “Palestinian history” is farcical and Voll’s understated but illuminating point unabashedly exposes this abject lie. The name “Palestine” is an invented name concocted by the Roman Emperor Hadrian.
> 
> In 132 CE, the Jews of Judea (alternatively known as Eretz Israel) launched an open revolt against Roman occupation of their land. Led by its charismatic leader, Simon Bar Kochva, the anti-Roman insurgency nearly succeeded, as evidenced by archaeological discoveries and historical accounts but was ultimately suppressed some three years late after intense and bitter fightingr.
> 
> Hadrian was keenly aware and understood that the Jews could never be defeated by force of arms alone. He believed that in order to defeat the Jews, he needed to break their spirit as well. He therefore embarked on a bitter campaign of severing the Jewish nexus to the Land of Israel. Among his many cruel edicts was the renaming of the city of Jerusalem to “Aelia Capitolina” and the Land of Israel to “Palestine.” While the former name was never accepted, the latter abominable renaming unfortunately stuck and over time supplanted the land’s historical and original naming.
> 
> To be clear, there has never in the history of mankind been a Palestinian state, a Palestinian capital, a distinct Palestinian language, currency or culture. In December 2011, Newt Gingrich noted this indisputable fact and made the following observation;
> 
> “Remember there was no Palestine as a state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire. And I think that we've had an invented Palestinian people, who are in fact Arabs, and were historically part of the Arab community…”
> 
> ...
> 
> The Only Book On Palestinian History You Will Ever Need To Read
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh good grief. Really?
> 
> "Voll's argument that the Palestinians are not a people because they are void of history isn't new – it is a mainstay of the Israeli right, which has claimed that Palestinian nationalism was invented by the Arab leaders in order to destroy Israel. In reality, Palestinian history goes back hundreds of years. What is relatively new, however, is Palestinian nationalism, which only began to appear in the early 20th century and coalesced into a national movement after 1948.
> 
> The argument used by the Israeli right seems to imply that a group may only call itself "a people" if it has always existed, which is false because all peoples have at one point or another come into being.
> 
> The argument is belied by the fact that there are actual histories of Palestine being sold on Amazon, which are longer and whose pages do contain text delineating this history. "The Palestinian People: A History" by Baruch Kimmerling and Joel S. Migdal, "A History of Palestine: From the Ottoman Conquest to the Founding of the State of Israel" by Gudrun Krämer and Graham Harman and "The History of Palestine" by John Kitto are some examples."
> 
> Empty book on Palestinian history becomes instant best-seller on Amazon
> 
> Too easy.
Click to expand...


According to your own definition, there is an Israeli people now.  It came into being in 1948.  Even Muslims, like Mohammed Zoabi, consider themselves to be proud Israelis.


----------



## American_Jihad

*What Hamas Wants*
* A new political document should shatter any remaining illusions. *
July 3, 2017
Herbert London





  Illusions in the Middle East die hard. However, with the publication of Hamas' new political document, there shouldn’t be any doubt about the motives of this Muslim Brotherhood organization. The western press continues to assert that Hamas is “moderating” its views, but the document itself offers a different picture.

The main points of the new political document are:


Reliance on Islam as the sole source of authority;
Denial of the Jewish right to self-determination in the Land of Israel;
Conferral of a sacred Islamic character on all of Palestine;
An armed struggle to liberate Palestine is legitimate and must continue.
In the last year, Hamas has altered the wording in many of its public statements to seem accommodating. Presumably naiveté in the West has given it leverage at the U.N. and as a legitimate political actor on the world stage. In fact, the modification in language is an exercise in “taqiyyah” (deception in the cause of Allah). Impression, not substance, is what counts for Hamas officials.

...

So let’s get over the pollyannish view peace can be negotiated. It will not be negotiated as long as one side at the negotiating table wants to kill those across from them. That is the reality, however difficult it is to accept.

What Hamas Wants


----------



## American_Jihad

*UN REPORT PLACES SOME BLAME ON PALESTINIAN LEADERS FOR GAZA HUMANITARIAN CRISIS*
*Report still sharply criticizes Israel as usual, but Israel is no longer the UN's sole villain.*
July 12, 2017

Joseph Klein





The United Nations has just issued a report entitled “GAZA TEN YEARS LATER - United Nations Country Team in the occupied Palestinian.” It was written from the false perspective that Gaza is still part of the so-called Palestinian territory “occupied” by Israel, which represents the official position of the United Nations as a whole. However, the report also contains some insights into the destructive pattern of conduct by the Palestinian leadership, contributing significantly to the misery of the people of Gaza. 

If Israel were truly the “occupier” of Gaza, 12 years after its unilateral withdrawal and 10 years after Hamas’s violent takeover of Gaza from Palestinian Authority control, Hamas would not be ruling Gaza, let alone remaining free to use the territory as a launching pad for terrorist attacks against Israel. Indeed, the UN report itself demonstrated some cognitive dissonance on the question regarding who actually runs Gaza. In one breath the report asserted that Israel is the occupying power in Gaza because of “the control that Israel retained on Gaza’s air space, sea space and external borders continuously.” However, the report also noted the “exercise of government-like functions and territorial control” by the “de facto authorities in Gaza” – i.e., Hamas. The report described how “Hamas has increasingly tightened its grip on power” since seizing control and “was able to sustain its de facto authority and build up its military strength.” 

Moreover, the UN report effectively undercut the premise that the Palestinians have achieved the prerequisites for recognition as a legitimate state, regardless of its authors' intentions. There are severe unresolved divisions between the Palestinian Authority and Hamas, leading to separate and competing governing authorities and sets of laws within the territories that the Palestinians claim as the basis for their state. Consider the following verbatim quote from the UN report:

...

UN Report Places Some Blame on Palestinian Leaders for Gaza Humanitarian Crisis


----------



## P F Tinmore

American_Jihad said:


> If Israel were truly the “occupier” of Gaza, 12 years after its unilateral withdrawal and 10 years after Hamas’s violent takeover of Gaza from Palestinian Authority control,


I can't believe they are still pimping that lie.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Israel were truly the “occupier” of Gaza, 12 years after its unilateral withdrawal and 10 years after Hamas’s violent takeover of Gaza from Palestinian Authority control,
> 
> 
> 
> I can't believe they are still pimping that lie.
Click to expand...

I can't believe that people like you are still pimping the "Pal'istan" hoax. 

I'm not at all surprised that Islamic terrorists are unable to manage civil affairs of government. The mini-caliphates in fatah'istan and Gaza'istan are no more successful than the more ambitious ISIS caliphate.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Israel were truly the “occupier” of Gaza, 12 years after its unilateral withdrawal and 10 years after Hamas’s violent takeover of Gaza from Palestinian Authority control,
> 
> 
> 
> I can't believe they are still pimping that lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can't believe that people like you are still pimping the "Pal'istan" hoax.
> 
> I'm not at all surprised that Islamic terrorists are unable to manage civil affairs of government. The mini-caliphates in fatah'istan and Gaza'istan are no more successful than the more ambitious ISIS caliphate.
Click to expand...







Indeed.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Israel were truly the “occupier” of Gaza, 12 years after its unilateral withdrawal and 10 years after Hamas’s violent takeover of Gaza from Palestinian Authority control,
> 
> 
> 
> I can't believe they are still pimping that lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can't believe that people like you are still pimping the "Pal'istan" hoax.
> 
> I'm not at all surprised that Islamic terrorists are unable to manage civil affairs of government. The mini-caliphates in fatah'istan and Gaza'istan are no more successful than the more ambitious ISIS caliphate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed.
Click to expand...


Indeed. Muhamnedans begging at the Kuffar welfare trough.

Indeed.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Israel were truly the “occupier” of Gaza, 12 years after its unilateral withdrawal and 10 years after Hamas’s violent takeover of Gaza from Palestinian Authority control,
> 
> 
> 
> I can't believe they are still pimping that lie.
Click to expand...

 Hamas does NOT consider Gaza occupied:

BETHLEHEM (Ma'an) -- Hamas leader Mahmoud Zahhar has cast doubt his party will take up peaceful resistance against Israel as advocated by former rivals Fatah.
Under a reconciliation deal between the factions signed in May, officials called for a unified "national strategy," and Fatah officials say that Hamas chief-in-exile Khalid Mashaal agreed to adopt non-violent popular action in favor of armed struggle.

But in comments to Ma'an late Monday, senior Hamas official in Gaza Zahhar stressed the situation in the *Gaza Strip is different to the occupied West Bank.*

*"Against whom could we demonstrate in the Gaza Strip? When Gaza was occupied, that model was applicable,"* Zahhar said.

Hamas: Peaceful resistance not applicable to Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian identity was established by law at the end of WWI.
> 
> So why the debate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heritage is stronger than any ink on a piece of paper.
> The debate is because it seems Palestinians so much oppose 'occupation' while at the same time hold on to occupiers culture, as if they've lost all connection to their roots
> 
> Speaking foreign language, no distinct culture...they prefer occupiers' identity (Roman/Arab) while denying anything that originally came from the land, and their brothers - Jews,  who're culturally more Palestinian than themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are Palestinian by law. They are citizens of Palestine by law. Palestine is defined by international borders.
> 
> Israeli blabber cannot change any of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nor can Arab Muslim blabber change the three magic words in all the relevant documents.
> 
> JEWISH.  NATIONAL.  HOME.
Click to expand...

You don't know what that was.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian identity was established by law at the end of WWI.
> 
> So why the debate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heritage is stronger than any ink on a piece of paper.
> The debate is because it seems Palestinians so much oppose 'occupation' while at the same time hold on to occupiers culture, as if they've lost all connection to their roots
> 
> Speaking foreign language, no distinct culture...they prefer occupiers' identity (Roman/Arab) while denying anything that originally came from the land, and their brothers - Jews,  who're culturally more Palestinian than themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are Palestinian by law. They are citizens of Palestine by law. Palestine is defined by international borders.
> 
> Israeli blabber cannot change any of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nor can Arab Muslim blabber change the three magic words in all the relevant documents.
> 
> JEWISH.  NATIONAL.  HOME.
Click to expand...

You don't know what that was.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian identity was established by law at the end of WWI.
> 
> So why the debate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heritage is stronger than any ink on a piece of paper.
> The debate is because it seems Palestinians so much oppose 'occupation' while at the same time hold on to occupiers culture, as if they've lost all connection to their roots
> 
> Speaking foreign language, no distinct culture...they prefer occupiers' identity (Roman/Arab) while denying anything that originally came from the land, and their brothers - Jews,  who're culturally more Palestinian than themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are Palestinian by law. They are citizens of Palestine by law. Palestine is defined by international borders.
> 
> Israeli blabber cannot change any of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nor can Arab Muslim blabber change the three magic words in all the relevant documents.
> 
> JEWISH.  NATIONAL.  HOME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't know what that was.
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *THE ONLY BOOK ON PALESTINIAN HISTORY YOU WILL EVER NEED TO READ*
> *A historian counters mendacity with powerful satire.*
> June 23, 2017
> 
> Ari Lieberman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> The notion of “Palestinian history” is farcical and Voll’s understated but illuminating point unabashedly exposes this abject lie. The name “Palestine” is an invented name concocted by the Roman Emperor Hadrian.
> 
> In 132 CE, the Jews of Judea (alternatively known as Eretz Israel) launched an open revolt against Roman occupation of their land. Led by its charismatic leader, Simon Bar Kochva, the anti-Roman insurgency nearly succeeded, as evidenced by archaeological discoveries and historical accounts but was ultimately suppressed some three years late after intense and bitter fightingr.
> 
> Hadrian was keenly aware and understood that the Jews could never be defeated by force of arms alone. He believed that in order to defeat the Jews, he needed to break their spirit as well. He therefore embarked on a bitter campaign of severing the Jewish nexus to the Land of Israel. Among his many cruel edicts was the renaming of the city of Jerusalem to “Aelia Capitolina” and the Land of Israel to “Palestine.” While the former name was never accepted, the latter abominable renaming unfortunately stuck and over time supplanted the land’s historical and original naming.
> 
> To be clear, there has never in the history of mankind been a Palestinian state, a Palestinian capital, a distinct Palestinian language, currency or culture. In December 2011, Newt Gingrich noted this indisputable fact and made the following observation;
> 
> “Remember there was no Palestine as a state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire. And I think that we've had an invented Palestinian people, who are in fact Arabs, and were historically part of the Arab community…”
> 
> ...
> 
> The Only Book On Palestinian History You Will Ever Need To Read
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh good grief. Really?
> 
> "Voll's argument that the Palestinians are not a people because they are void of history isn't new – it is a mainstay of the Israeli right, which has claimed that Palestinian nationalism was invented by the Arab leaders in order to destroy Israel. In reality, Palestinian history goes back hundreds of years. What is relatively new, however, is Palestinian nationalism, which only began to appear in the early 20th century and coalesced into a national movement after 1948.
> 
> The argument used by the Israeli right seems to imply that a group may only call itself "a people" if it has always existed, which is false because all peoples have at one point or another come into being.
> 
> The argument is belied by the fact that there are actual histories of Palestine being sold on Amazon, which are longer and whose pages do contain text delineating this history. "The Palestinian People: A History" by Baruch Kimmerling and Joel S. Migdal, "A History of Palestine: From the Ottoman Conquest to the Founding of the State of Israel" by Gudrun Krämer and Graham Harman and "The History of Palestine" by John Kitto are some examples."
> 
> Empty book on Palestinian history becomes instant best-seller on Amazon
> 
> Too easy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> According to your own definition, there is an Israeli people now.  It came into being in 1948.  Even Muslims, like Mohammed Zoabi, consider themselves to be proud Israelis.
Click to expand...

Ha! The nationality on his ID card does not say "Israeli."


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *THE ONLY BOOK ON PALESTINIAN HISTORY YOU WILL EVER NEED TO READ*
> *A historian counters mendacity with powerful satire.*
> June 23, 2017
> 
> Ari Lieberman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> The notion of “Palestinian history” is farcical and Voll’s understated but illuminating point unabashedly exposes this abject lie. The name “Palestine” is an invented name concocted by the Roman Emperor Hadrian.
> 
> In 132 CE, the Jews of Judea (alternatively known as Eretz Israel) launched an open revolt against Roman occupation of their land. Led by its charismatic leader, Simon Bar Kochva, the anti-Roman insurgency nearly succeeded, as evidenced by archaeological discoveries and historical accounts but was ultimately suppressed some three years late after intense and bitter fightingr.
> 
> Hadrian was keenly aware and understood that the Jews could never be defeated by force of arms alone. He believed that in order to defeat the Jews, he needed to break their spirit as well. He therefore embarked on a bitter campaign of severing the Jewish nexus to the Land of Israel. Among his many cruel edicts was the renaming of the city of Jerusalem to “Aelia Capitolina” and the Land of Israel to “Palestine.” While the former name was never accepted, the latter abominable renaming unfortunately stuck and over time supplanted the land’s historical and original naming.
> 
> To be clear, there has never in the history of mankind been a Palestinian state, a Palestinian capital, a distinct Palestinian language, currency or culture. In December 2011, Newt Gingrich noted this indisputable fact and made the following observation;
> 
> “Remember there was no Palestine as a state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire. And I think that we've had an invented Palestinian people, who are in fact Arabs, and were historically part of the Arab community…”
> 
> ...
> 
> The Only Book On Palestinian History You Will Ever Need To Read
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh good grief. Really?
> 
> "Voll's argument that the Palestinians are not a people because they are void of history isn't new – it is a mainstay of the Israeli right, which has claimed that Palestinian nationalism was invented by the Arab leaders in order to destroy Israel. In reality, Palestinian history goes back hundreds of years. What is relatively new, however, is Palestinian nationalism, which only began to appear in the early 20th century and coalesced into a national movement after 1948.
> 
> The argument used by the Israeli right seems to imply that a group may only call itself "a people" if it has always existed, which is false because all peoples have at one point or another come into being.
> 
> The argument is belied by the fact that there are actual histories of Palestine being sold on Amazon, which are longer and whose pages do contain text delineating this history. "The Palestinian People: A History" by Baruch Kimmerling and Joel S. Migdal, "A History of Palestine: From the Ottoman Conquest to the Founding of the State of Israel" by Gudrun Krämer and Graham Harman and "The History of Palestine" by John Kitto are some examples."
> 
> Empty book on Palestinian history becomes instant best-seller on Amazon
> 
> Too easy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> According to your own definition, there is an Israeli people now.  It came into being in 1948.  Even Muslims, like Mohammed Zoabi, consider themselves to be proud Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ha! The nationality on his ID card does not say "Israeli."
Click to expand...


Bureaucracy does not create peoples or nations.
But that seems to be Your only premise for the Palestinian nationality.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *THE ONLY BOOK ON PALESTINIAN HISTORY YOU WILL EVER NEED TO READ*
> *A historian counters mendacity with powerful satire.*
> June 23, 2017
> 
> Ari Lieberman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> The notion of “Palestinian history” is farcical and Voll’s understated but illuminating point unabashedly exposes this abject lie. The name “Palestine” is an invented name concocted by the Roman Emperor Hadrian.
> 
> In 132 CE, the Jews of Judea (alternatively known as Eretz Israel) launched an open revolt against Roman occupation of their land. Led by its charismatic leader, Simon Bar Kochva, the anti-Roman insurgency nearly succeeded, as evidenced by archaeological discoveries and historical accounts but was ultimately suppressed some three years late after intense and bitter fightingr.
> 
> Hadrian was keenly aware and understood that the Jews could never be defeated by force of arms alone. He believed that in order to defeat the Jews, he needed to break their spirit as well. He therefore embarked on a bitter campaign of severing the Jewish nexus to the Land of Israel. Among his many cruel edicts was the renaming of the city of Jerusalem to “Aelia Capitolina” and the Land of Israel to “Palestine.” While the former name was never accepted, the latter abominable renaming unfortunately stuck and over time supplanted the land’s historical and original naming.
> 
> To be clear, there has never in the history of mankind been a Palestinian state, a Palestinian capital, a distinct Palestinian language, currency or culture. In December 2011, Newt Gingrich noted this indisputable fact and made the following observation;
> 
> “Remember there was no Palestine as a state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire. And I think that we've had an invented Palestinian people, who are in fact Arabs, and were historically part of the Arab community…”
> 
> ...
> 
> The Only Book On Palestinian History You Will Ever Need To Read
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh good grief. Really?
> 
> "Voll's argument that the Palestinians are not a people because they are void of history isn't new – it is a mainstay of the Israeli right, which has claimed that Palestinian nationalism was invented by the Arab leaders in order to destroy Israel. In reality, Palestinian history goes back hundreds of years. What is relatively new, however, is Palestinian nationalism, which only began to appear in the early 20th century and coalesced into a national movement after 1948.
> 
> The argument used by the Israeli right seems to imply that a group may only call itself "a people" if it has always existed, which is false because all peoples have at one point or another come into being.
> 
> The argument is belied by the fact that there are actual histories of Palestine being sold on Amazon, which are longer and whose pages do contain text delineating this history. "The Palestinian People: A History" by Baruch Kimmerling and Joel S. Migdal, "A History of Palestine: From the Ottoman Conquest to the Founding of the State of Israel" by Gudrun Krämer and Graham Harman and "The History of Palestine" by John Kitto are some examples."
> 
> Empty book on Palestinian history becomes instant best-seller on Amazon
> 
> Too easy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> According to your own definition, there is an Israeli people now.  It came into being in 1948.  Even Muslims, like Mohammed Zoabi, consider themselves to be proud Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ha! The nationality on his ID card does not say "Israeli."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bureaucracy does not create peoples or nations.
> But that seems to be Your only premise for the Palestinian nationality.
Click to expand...

Palestinian nationality was created by treaty and international law.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *THE ONLY BOOK ON PALESTINIAN HISTORY YOU WILL EVER NEED TO READ*
> *A historian counters mendacity with powerful satire.*
> June 23, 2017
> 
> Ari Lieberman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> The notion of “Palestinian history” is farcical and Voll’s understated but illuminating point unabashedly exposes this abject lie. The name “Palestine” is an invented name concocted by the Roman Emperor Hadrian.
> 
> In 132 CE, the Jews of Judea (alternatively known as Eretz Israel) launched an open revolt against Roman occupation of their land. Led by its charismatic leader, Simon Bar Kochva, the anti-Roman insurgency nearly succeeded, as evidenced by archaeological discoveries and historical accounts but was ultimately suppressed some three years late after intense and bitter fightingr.
> 
> Hadrian was keenly aware and understood that the Jews could never be defeated by force of arms alone. He believed that in order to defeat the Jews, he needed to break their spirit as well. He therefore embarked on a bitter campaign of severing the Jewish nexus to the Land of Israel. Among his many cruel edicts was the renaming of the city of Jerusalem to “Aelia Capitolina” and the Land of Israel to “Palestine.” While the former name was never accepted, the latter abominable renaming unfortunately stuck and over time supplanted the land’s historical and original naming.
> 
> To be clear, there has never in the history of mankind been a Palestinian state, a Palestinian capital, a distinct Palestinian language, currency or culture. In December 2011, Newt Gingrich noted this indisputable fact and made the following observation;
> 
> “Remember there was no Palestine as a state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire. And I think that we've had an invented Palestinian people, who are in fact Arabs, and were historically part of the Arab community…”
> 
> ...
> 
> The Only Book On Palestinian History You Will Ever Need To Read
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh good grief. Really?
> 
> "Voll's argument that the Palestinians are not a people because they are void of history isn't new – it is a mainstay of the Israeli right, which has claimed that Palestinian nationalism was invented by the Arab leaders in order to destroy Israel. In reality, Palestinian history goes back hundreds of years. What is relatively new, however, is Palestinian nationalism, which only began to appear in the early 20th century and coalesced into a national movement after 1948.
> 
> The argument used by the Israeli right seems to imply that a group may only call itself "a people" if it has always existed, which is false because all peoples have at one point or another come into being.
> 
> The argument is belied by the fact that there are actual histories of Palestine being sold on Amazon, which are longer and whose pages do contain text delineating this history. "The Palestinian People: A History" by Baruch Kimmerling and Joel S. Migdal, "A History of Palestine: From the Ottoman Conquest to the Founding of the State of Israel" by Gudrun Krämer and Graham Harman and "The History of Palestine" by John Kitto are some examples."
> 
> Empty book on Palestinian history becomes instant best-seller on Amazon
> 
> Too easy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> According to your own definition, there is an Israeli people now.  It came into being in 1948.  Even Muslims, like Mohammed Zoabi, consider themselves to be proud Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ha! The nationality on his ID card does not say "Israeli."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bureaucracy does not create peoples or nations.
> But that seems to be Your only premise for the Palestinian nationality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinian nationality was created by treaty and international law.
Click to expand...


But that didn't convince the Arabs to identify with such terms...Jews did


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh good grief. Really?
> 
> "Voll's argument that the Palestinians are not a people because they are void of history isn't new – it is a mainstay of the Israeli right, which has claimed that Palestinian nationalism was invented by the Arab leaders in order to destroy Israel. In reality, Palestinian history goes back hundreds of years. What is relatively new, however, is Palestinian nationalism, which only began to appear in the early 20th century and coalesced into a national movement after 1948.
> 
> The argument used by the Israeli right seems to imply that a group may only call itself "a people" if it has always existed, which is false because all peoples have at one point or another come into being.
> 
> The argument is belied by the fact that there are actual histories of Palestine being sold on Amazon, which are longer and whose pages do contain text delineating this history. "The Palestinian People: A History" by Baruch Kimmerling and Joel S. Migdal, "A History of Palestine: From the Ottoman Conquest to the Founding of the State of Israel" by Gudrun Krämer and Graham Harman and "The History of Palestine" by John Kitto are some examples."
> 
> Empty book on Palestinian history becomes instant best-seller on Amazon
> 
> Too easy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to your own definition, there is an Israeli people now.  It came into being in 1948.  Even Muslims, like Mohammed Zoabi, consider themselves to be proud Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ha! The nationality on his ID card does not say "Israeli."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bureaucracy does not create peoples or nations.
> But that seems to be Your only premise for the Palestinian nationality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinian nationality was created by treaty and international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that didn't create the People who identified with such terms...well accept for Jews.
Click to expand...

True, the people were already there.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to your own definition, there is an Israeli people now.  It came into being in 1948.  Even Muslims, like Mohammed Zoabi, consider themselves to be proud Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> Ha! The nationality on his ID card does not say "Israeli."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bureaucracy does not create peoples or nations.
> But that seems to be Your only premise for the Palestinian nationality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinian nationality was created by treaty and international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that didn't create the People who identified with such terms...well accept for Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True, the people were already there.
Click to expand...


And among them were Palestinian Jews, they were the only ones identifying with such terms of an independent nation. The Arabs called for a Syrian nationality and territorial unity.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh good grief. Really?
> 
> "Voll's argument that the Palestinians are not a people because they are void of history isn't new – it is a mainstay of the Israeli right, which has claimed that Palestinian nationalism was invented by the Arab leaders in order to destroy Israel. In reality, Palestinian history goes back hundreds of years. What is relatively new, however, is Palestinian nationalism, which only began to appear in the early 20th century and coalesced into a national movement after 1948.
> 
> The argument used by the Israeli right seems to imply that a group may only call itself "a people" if it has always existed, which is false because all peoples have at one point or another come into being.
> 
> The argument is belied by the fact that there are actual histories of Palestine being sold on Amazon, which are longer and whose pages do contain text delineating this history. "The Palestinian People: A History" by Baruch Kimmerling and Joel S. Migdal, "A History of Palestine: From the Ottoman Conquest to the Founding of the State of Israel" by Gudrun Krämer and Graham Harman and "The History of Palestine" by John Kitto are some examples."
> 
> Empty book on Palestinian history becomes instant best-seller on Amazon
> 
> Too easy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to your own definition, there is an Israeli people now.  It came into being in 1948.  Even Muslims, like Mohammed Zoabi, consider themselves to be proud Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ha! The nationality on his ID card does not say "Israeli."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bureaucracy does not create peoples or nations.
> But that seems to be Your only premise for the Palestinian nationality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinian nationality was created by treaty and international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that didn't convince the Arabs to identify with such terms...Jews did
Click to expand...

There weren't many Jews there at the time.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to your own definition, there is an Israeli people now.  It came into being in 1948.  Even Muslims, like Mohammed Zoabi, consider themselves to be proud Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> Ha! The nationality on his ID card does not say "Israeli."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bureaucracy does not create peoples or nations.
> But that seems to be Your only premise for the Palestinian nationality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinian nationality was created by treaty and international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that didn't convince the Arabs to identify with such terms...Jews did
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There weren't many Jews there at the time.
Click to expand...


So what?
Probably the majority of those who identified with independent Palestine were the Jews, while the Arabs still didn't want any independent Palestine, they wanted it to be a part of and ruled by, another bigger Arab country, with its' heart in Damascus or Cairo.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> There weren't many Jews there at the time.



So what?  Do only majorities have rights?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There weren't many Jews there at the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what?  Do only majorities have rights?
Click to expand...

Of course not. Everybody had the same rights.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Of course not. Everybody had the same rights.



Then there is no need to ever mention that the Jewish people were a minority.  Stop it.


----------



## montelatici

There are no "Jewish people" there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Judaism. Just as there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Mormonism or Christianity or Islam or Hinduism.


----------



## Indeependent

montelatici said:


> There are no "Jewish people" there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Judaism. Just as there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Mormonism or Christianity or Islam or Hinduism.


And if every Muslim converted to Judaism, global beheading would be reduced overnight by 100%.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course not. Everybody had the same rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then there is no need to ever mention that the Jewish people were a minority.  Stop it.
Click to expand...

They weren't mentioned. They were an equal part of the whole without distinction.


----------



## montelatici

Indeependent said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are no "Jewish people" there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Judaism. Just as there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Mormonism or Christianity or Islam or Hinduism.
> 
> 
> 
> And if every Muslim converted to Judaism, global beheading would be reduced overnight by 100%.
Click to expand...


To be fair, only we Christians in our liturgy reject violence, you people, Muslims and Jews, have violence written into your religious laws.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> They weren't mentioned. They were an equal part of the whole without distinction.



Bullshit.  Post #519



> There weren't many Jews there at the time.


----------



## Coyote

Indeependent said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are no "Jewish people" there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Judaism. Just as there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Mormonism or Christianity or Islam or Hinduism.
> 
> 
> 
> And if every Muslim converted to Judaism, global beheading would be reduced overnight by 100%.
Click to expand...


Ummmm no.

Drug cartels in Mexico have a niche market in beheadings that rivals Muslims.

And they're probably Catholic...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't mentioned. They were an equal part of the whole without distinction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.  Post #519
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There weren't many Jews there at the time.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

It was Britain who separated them out as part of its colonial project. This was against what the Palestinians wanted.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are no "Jewish people" there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Judaism. Just as there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Mormonism or Christianity or Islam or Hinduism.
> 
> 
> 
> And if every Muslim converted to Judaism, global beheading would be reduced overnight by 100%.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ummmm no.
> 
> Drug cartels in Mexico have a niche market in beheadings that rivals Muslims.
> 
> And they're probably Catholic...
Click to expand...

But you never hear that the Catholics are killing their own people.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are no "Jewish people" there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Judaism. Just as there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Mormonism or Christianity or Islam or Hinduism.
> 
> 
> 
> And if every Muslim converted to Judaism, global beheading would be reduced overnight by 100%.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ummmm no.
> 
> Drug cartels in Mexico have a niche market in beheadings that rivals Muslims.
> 
> And they're probably Catholic...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But you never hear that the Catholics are killing their own people.
Click to expand...


Of course not.  All the headless bodies in Mexico scarcely warrent a post.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't mentioned. They were an equal part of the whole without distinction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.  Post #519
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There weren't many Jews there at the time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was Britain who separated them out as part of its colonial project. This was against what the Palestinians wanted.
Click to expand...


Irrelevant to my point.  My point was that ALL peoples have rights, not only majorities.  If you agree with me (and you said you did), then there is never a need to mention that the Jewish people were a minority ever again.  Stop it.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Indeependent said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are no "Jewish people" there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Judaism. Just as there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Mormonism or Christianity or Islam or Hinduism.
> 
> 
> 
> And if every Muslim converted to Judaism, global beheading would be reduced overnight by 100%.
Click to expand...


How many people have Islamic Tatars beheaded people, blown up, or shot up the place?

I think we're talking more of a racial issue, rather than strictly a religious one.


----------



## Mindful




----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> Bureaucracy does not create peoples or nations.



Does it not? That's Zionist Israel screwed then.


----------



## Challenger

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There weren't many Jews there at the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what?  Do only majorities have rights?
Click to expand...

They do in Zionist israel.


----------



## Mindful

Challenger said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There weren't many Jews there at the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what?  Do only majorities have rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They do in Zionist israel.
Click to expand...


You are sooooo annoying.

Typical domestic rodent.


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bureaucracy does not create peoples or nations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does it not? That's Zionist Israel screwed then.
Click to expand...


pftttt Your'e funny.

We know who has hard time to create a nation out of an amalgamation of tribes  Let's give Palestinians some more time to decide whether they're Syrians, Egyptians,  Canaanites or even the _'real Jews'.
_
The Zionists had this question already solved some 2,600 years ago...we still don't know whether the new Palestinian identity will stand the test of time. Doesn't seem so with the lack of distinct language or culture.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't mentioned. They were an equal part of the whole without distinction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.  Post #519
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There weren't many Jews there at the time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was Britain who separated them out as part of its colonial project. This was against what the Palestinians wanted.
Click to expand...


Then why did the Palestinian Jews take part in the Zionist activities?
I'm talking about the pre-Zionist communities.
They were teachers in the Zionist schools, they wrote in the local Zionist Hebrew newspapers, and even wrote songs rejoicing the gathering of the diaspora - proclaiming_ 'Time has come'.
_
There were Palestinians who wanted self determination in the land - they were Jews. There were also Palestinians who wanted no independent Palestine, but it to be a part of Syria.
The problem between Jews and other Palestinians didn't start with the Zionist immigration, the population was divided and sectarian before that. It's the ME, not the Disneyland You imagine.


----------



## rylah

Not so much anti-Zionist song written by a Palestinian Jew from Jerusalem 
He must have felt real sadness when his brothers returned home right?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


My Joy Return to My Homeland

Intro (00:00-2:26)
"The King in His goodness I'll walk, in the virtue of King David ben Yishai His Name we'll call"

Song (2:26-end):

"My joy return to my homeland, rejoice beautiful daughter
My joy return to my homeland, rejoice beautiful daughter
In You I'll give my dwelling, built on the Mount of Moriah

Come beautiful because Your light has come, and forget the days of Your ebb
Awake beautiful sing Your song because the days of Your exile have come to an end
And build Your halls and sanctities there in the land of doe

My joy return to my Homeland...

Return to Your dwellings, return and I'll return
*And I'll free Your captives, and they will be in the millions*
I'll have mercy on Your lands, (and You) will be the fruit of the grapevine

My joy...

Gentle beloved wife be happy and rejoice, sing Your songs
Blossom like a sprout, like a rose pour with water multiply be fruitful
Because the salvation is real now, and I'll send remembrance and abundance.


----------



## Indeependent

montelatici said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are no "Jewish people" there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Judaism. Just as there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Mormonism or Christianity or Islam or Hinduism.
> 
> 
> 
> And if every Muslim converted to Judaism, global beheading would be reduced overnight by 100%.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To be fair, only we Christians in our liturgy reject violence, you people, Muslims and Jews, have violence written into your religious laws.
Click to expand...

Tell the Pope that you don't recognize The Jewish Scriptures or the references to them in The New Testament.
I believe we have had this discussion concerning your excommunication from the RCC a few times.


----------



## louie888

*Inderpendent*

I believe we have had this discussion concerning your substituting religious hogwash for factual historical accounts. Remember?


----------



## Indeependent

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are no "Jewish people" there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Judaism. Just as there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Mormonism or Christianity or Islam or Hinduism.
> 
> 
> 
> And if every Muslim converted to Judaism, global beheading would be reduced overnight by 100%.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many people have Islamic Tatars beheaded people, blown up, or shot up the place?
> 
> I think we're talking more of a racial issue, rather than strictly a religious one.
Click to expand...

At the moment, ISIS gets more attention than the other murderous groups.
Try walking into a Jordanian West Bank Town and railing against even a 2 State Solution and see what becomes of you.
But first give me a big chunk out of your Life Insurance Policy.


----------



## Indeependent

louie888 said:


> *Inderpendent*
> 
> I believe we have had this discussion concerning your substituting religious hogwash for factual historical accounts. Remember?


You mean that discussion that you haven't ever gotten on fact correct yet.
You're correct in that respect.
No continuing telling us how Israelis are murdering millions of Arab everyday.


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> The Zionists had this question already solved some 2,600 years ago



Zionism didn't exist 2,600 years ago.


----------



## montelatici

Indeependent said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are no "Jewish people" there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Judaism. Just as there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Mormonism or Christianity or Islam or Hinduism.
> 
> 
> 
> And if every Muslim converted to Judaism, global beheading would be reduced overnight by 100%.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To be fair, only we Christians in our liturgy reject violence, you people, Muslims and Jews, have violence written into your religious laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tell the Pope that you don't recognize The Jewish Scriptures or the references to them in The New Testament.
> I believe we have had this discussion concerning your excommunication from the RCC a few times.
Click to expand...


The Pope agrees with the me and the Bible. 

*Hebrews 8:13*
 By calling this covenant "new", he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.


----------



## Indeependent

montelatici said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are no "Jewish people" there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Judaism. Just as there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Mormonism or Christianity or Islam or Hinduism.
> 
> 
> 
> And if every Muslim converted to Judaism, global beheading would be reduced overnight by 100%.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To be fair, only we Christians in our liturgy reject violence, you people, Muslims and Jews, have violence written into your religious laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tell the Pope that you don't recognize The Jewish Scriptures or the references to them in The New Testament.
> I believe we have had this discussion concerning your excommunication from the RCC a few times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Pope agrees with the me and the Bible.
> 
> *Hebrews 8:13*
> By calling this covenant "new", he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
Click to expand...

But you, or your girlfriend, have already posted that you never believed the Jewish Scriptures were real and that the JS quoted by the NT was inserted there by nasty Jews.
Now go tell that to the Pope.


----------



## montelatici

Indeependent said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are no "Jewish people" there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Judaism. Just as there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Mormonism or Christianity or Islam or Hinduism.
> 
> 
> 
> And if every Muslim converted to Judaism, global beheading would be reduced overnight by 100%.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To be fair, only we Christians in our liturgy reject violence, you people, Muslims and Jews, have violence written into your religious laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tell the Pope that you don't recognize The Jewish Scriptures or the references to them in The New Testament.
> I believe we have had this discussion concerning your excommunication from the RCC a few times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Pope agrees with the me and the Bible.
> 
> *Hebrews 8:13*
> By calling this covenant "new", he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But you, or your girlfriend, have already posted that you never believed the Jewish Scriptures were real and that the JS quoted by the NT was inserted there by nasty Jews.
> Now go tell that to the Pope.
Click to expand...


Don't have to go to the Pope, he reads the same Bible I do.


----------



## Indeependent

montelatici said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> And if every Muslim converted to Judaism, global beheading would be reduced overnight by 100%.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair, only we Christians in our liturgy reject violence, you people, Muslims and Jews, have violence written into your religious laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tell the Pope that you don't recognize The Jewish Scriptures or the references to them in The New Testament.
> I believe we have had this discussion concerning your excommunication from the RCC a few times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Pope agrees with the me and the Bible.
> 
> *Hebrews 8:13*
> By calling this covenant "new", he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But you, or your girlfriend, have already posted that you never believed the Jewish Scriptures were real and that the JS quoted by the NT was inserted there by nasty Jews.
> Now go tell that to the Pope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't have to go to the Pope, he reads the same Bible I do.
Click to expand...

Then your girlfriend posted it.
She *is* a bit bitchier than you.


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists had this question already solved some 2,600 years ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionism didn't exist 2,600 years ago.
Click to expand...


Of course it did, Zionism has existed at least since the Cyrus decree.

It was exactly during that period, that the lexicon modern Zionists use today was brought to popular use. 'Zion' and 'Return to Zion from exile'...it all started then.

I see a clear parallel to the Balfour Declaration.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists had this question already solved some 2,600 years ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionism didn't exist 2,600 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course it did, Zionism has existed at least since the Cyrus decree.
> 
> It was exactly during that period, that the lexicon modern Zionists use today was brought to popular use. 'Zion' and 'Return to Zion from exile'...it all started then.
> 
> I see a clear parallel to the Balfour Declaration.
Click to expand...

Do you mean when the British criminals gave away land that was not theirs.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists had this question already solved some 2,600 years ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionism didn't exist 2,600 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course it did, Zionism has existed at least since the Cyrus decree.
> 
> It was exactly during that period, that the lexicon modern Zionists use today was brought to popular use. 'Zion' and 'Return to Zion from exile'...it all started then.
> 
> I see a clear parallel to the Balfour Declaration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean when the British criminals gave away land that was not theirs.
Click to expand...


Well Judea was not a Persian land either.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists had this question already solved some 2,600 years ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionism didn't exist 2,600 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course it did, Zionism has existed at least since the Cyrus decree.
> 
> It was exactly during that period, that the lexicon modern Zionists use today was brought to popular use. 'Zion' and 'Return to Zion from exile'...it all started then.
> 
> I see a clear parallel to the Balfour Declaration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean when the British criminals gave away land that was not theirs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well Judea was not a Babylonian land either.
Click to expand...

Nice duck.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists had this question already solved some 2,600 years ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionism didn't exist 2,600 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course it did, Zionism has existed at least since the Cyrus decree.
> 
> It was exactly during that period, that the lexicon modern Zionists use today was brought to popular use. 'Zion' and 'Return to Zion from exile'...it all started then.
> 
> I see a clear parallel to the Balfour Declaration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean when the British criminals gave away land that was not theirs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well Judea was not a Babylonian land either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
Click to expand...


What am I ducking, Your deflection which had nothing to do with my post?

Keep the beat up slogans for Your cult meetings.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zionism didn't exist 2,600 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it did, Zionism has existed at least since the Cyrus decree.
> 
> It was exactly during that period, that the lexicon modern Zionists use today was brought to popular use. 'Zion' and 'Return to Zion from exile'...it all started then.
> 
> I see a clear parallel to the Balfour Declaration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean when the British criminals gave away land that was not theirs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well Judea was not a Babylonian land either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What am I ducking, Your deflection which had nothing to do with my post?
> 
> Keep the beat up slogans for Your cult meetings.
Click to expand...

You are the one who brought up the Balfour Declaration.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it did, Zionism has existed at least since the Cyrus decree.
> 
> It was exactly during that period, that the lexicon modern Zionists use today was brought to popular use. 'Zion' and 'Return to Zion from exile'...it all started then.
> 
> I see a clear parallel to the Balfour Declaration.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean when the British criminals gave away land that was not theirs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well Judea was not a Babylonian land either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What am I ducking, Your deflection which had nothing to do with my post?
> 
> Keep the beat up slogans for Your cult meetings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are the one who brought up the Balfour Declaration.
Click to expand...


No I brought up the Cyrus Decree as the cornerstone of modern Zionism AND the Balfour Declaration as its' parallel.

Do You have anything on the Palestinian national declaration that is not of 'yesterday'?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean when the British criminals gave away land that was not theirs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well Judea was not a Babylonian land either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What am I ducking, Your deflection which had nothing to do with my post?
> 
> Keep the beat up slogans for Your cult meetings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are the one who brought up the Balfour Declaration.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No I brought up the Cyrus Decree as the cornerstone of modern Zionism AND the Balfour Declaration as its' parallel.
> 
> Do You have anything on the Palestinian national declaration that is not of 'yesterday'?
Click to expand...

Did the Cyrus Decree mention anything about stealing land kicking out the natives?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well Judea was not a Babylonian land either.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What am I ducking, Your deflection which had nothing to do with my post?
> 
> Keep the beat up slogans for Your cult meetings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are the one who brought up the Balfour Declaration.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No I brought up the Cyrus Decree as the cornerstone of modern Zionism AND the Balfour Declaration as its' parallel.
> 
> Do You have anything on the Palestinian national declaration that is not of 'yesterday'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did the Cyrus Decree mention anything about stealing land kicking out the natives?
Click to expand...


Actually it talks about people in exile who have been removed from their lands, and about rebuilding their temples.

This is when the term 'Returning to Zion' established its' national meaning.


----------



## louie888

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What am I ducking, Your deflection which had nothing to do with my post?
> 
> Keep the beat up slogans for Your cult meetings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are the one who brought up the Balfour Declaration.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No I brought up the Cyrus Decree as the cornerstone of modern Zionism AND the Balfour Declaration as its' parallel.
> 
> Do You have anything on the Palestinian national declaration that is not of 'yesterday'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did the Cyrus Decree mention anything about stealing land kicking out the natives?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually it talks about people in exile who have been removed from their lands, and about rebuilding their temples.
> 
> This is when the term 'Returning to Zion' established its' national meaning.
Click to expand...

And if you had more than religious hogwash to back this idiocy, then it might be worth posting 6 million times by you clowns.


----------



## rylah

louie888 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> What am I ducking, Your deflection which had nothing to do with my post?
> 
> Keep the beat up slogans for Your cult meetings.
> 
> 
> 
> You are the one who brought up the Balfour Declaration.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No I brought up the Cyrus Decree as the cornerstone of modern Zionism AND the Balfour Declaration as its' parallel.
> 
> Do You have anything on the Palestinian national declaration that is not of 'yesterday'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did the Cyrus Decree mention anything about stealing land kicking out the natives?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually it talks about people in exile who have been removed from their lands, and about rebuilding their temples.
> 
> This is when the term 'Returning to Zion' established its' national meaning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And if you had more than religious hogwash to back this idiocy, then it might be worth posting 6 million times by you clowns.
Click to expand...


I don't need to do Your homework. I've more than enough detailed posts in Your own threads which You have yet to address.


----------



## louie888

rylah said:


> I don't need to do Your homework. I've more than enough detailed posts in Your own threads which You have yet to address.


*TRANSLATION: You have nothing, but religious nonsense.*


----------



## rylah

louie888 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't need to do Your homework. I've more than enough detailed posts in Your own threads which You have yet to address.
> 
> 
> 
> *TRANSLATION: You have nothing, but religious nonsense.*
Click to expand...


Have You read anything on the Cyrus decree?


----------



## louie888

rylah said:


> Have You read anything on the Cyrus decree?


It concerns a biblical narrative about the return from Babylonian captivity and the alleged decree of Cyrus is not considered authentic by actual historians.


----------



## rylah

And by 'actual historians' I understand- anyone who says what suits Your narrative.


----------



## louie888

rylah said:


> And by 'actual historians' I understand- anyone who says what suits Your narrative.


Look, they don't teach history at your temple... they just don't.

Prove its authenticity and you might have something.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

montelatici said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are no "Jewish people" there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Judaism. Just as there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Mormonism or Christianity or Islam or Hinduism.
> 
> 
> 
> And if every Muslim converted to Judaism, global beheading would be reduced overnight by 100%.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To be fair, only we Christians in our liturgy reject violence, you people, Muslims and Jews, have violence written into your religious laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tell the Pope that you don't recognize The Jewish Scriptures or the references to them in The New Testament.
> I believe we have had this discussion concerning your excommunication from the RCC a few times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Pope agrees with the me and the Bible.
> 
> *Hebrews 8:13*
> By calling this covenant "new", he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
Click to expand...


That seems to be the only verse that you know from the Bible.


----------



## montelatici

ForeverYoung436 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are no "Jewish people" there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Judaism. Just as there are people of different races and ethnicities that practice Mormonism or Christianity or Islam or Hinduism.
> 
> 
> 
> And if every Muslim converted to Judaism, global beheading would be reduced overnight by 100%.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To be fair, only we Christians in our liturgy reject violence, you people, Muslims and Jews, have violence written into your religious laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tell the Pope that you don't recognize The Jewish Scriptures or the references to them in The New Testament.
> I believe we have had this discussion concerning your excommunication from the RCC a few times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Pope agrees with the me and the Bible.
> 
> *Hebrews 8:13*
> By calling this covenant "new", he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That seems to be the only verse that you know from the Bible.
Click to expand...


I know many, but in answering claims that Christians must accept the Jewish bible, this verse is the most apropos.


----------



## rylah

louie888 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And by 'actual historians' I understand- anyone who says what suits Your narrative.
> 
> 
> 
> Look, they don't teach history at your temple... they just don't.
> 
> Prove it's authenticity and you might have something.
Click to expand...


_'At my temple'_???

Jews have one temple and it's ruined. That's why Zionism began.
Which text are You referring to, what do I have to prove to You?


----------



## louie888

montelatici said:


> I know many, but in answering claims that Christians must accept the Jewish bible, this verse is the most apropos.


How 'bout...

*I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Revelation 2:9 I know your afflictions and your poverty--yet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.*


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> And if every Muslim converted to Judaism, global beheading would be reduced overnight by 100%.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair, only we Christians in our liturgy reject violence, you people, Muslims and Jews, have violence written into your religious laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tell the Pope that you don't recognize The Jewish Scriptures or the references to them in The New Testament.
> I believe we have had this discussion concerning your excommunication from the RCC a few times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Pope agrees with the me and the Bible.
> 
> *Hebrews 8:13*
> By calling this covenant "new", he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That seems to be the only verse that you know from the Bible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know many, but in answering claims that Christians must accept the Jewish bible, this verse is the most apropos.
Click to expand...


Nobody said that. You're fighting a strawman.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair, only we Christians in our liturgy reject violence, you people, Muslims and Jews, have violence written into your religious laws.
> 
> 
> 
> Tell the Pope that you don't recognize The Jewish Scriptures or the references to them in The New Testament.
> I believe we have had this discussion concerning your excommunication from the RCC a few times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Pope agrees with the me and the Bible.
> 
> *Hebrews 8:13*
> By calling this covenant "new", he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That seems to be the only verse that you know from the Bible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know many, but in answering claims that Christians must accept the Jewish bible, this verse is the most apropos.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nobody said that. You're fighting a strawman.
Click to expand...


Why do you constantly lie?  Are you aTrump?

This is what your pal Indee posted:

_"Tell the Pope that you don't recognize The Jewish Scriptures...."
_
My response was apropos.


----------



## rylah

Ahh are we talking about replacement theology of the Roman Catholic Church?

I still don't understand why Hebrews would quote from Jeremiah.
By 'quote' I of course mean the Paulinian way of quoting scriptures.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> Ahh are we talking about replacement theology of the Roman Catholic Church?
> 
> I still don't understand why Hebrews would quote from Jeremiah if it had no relevance...by 'quote' I of course mean...well I how can I be gentle here...hmm fabricate?



Ahh, you don't know what you are talking about. But that's normal.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh are we talking about replacement theology of the Roman Catholic Church?
> 
> I still don't understand why Hebrews would quote from Jeremiah if it had no relevance...by 'quote' I of course mean...well I how can I be gentle here...hmm fabricate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh, you don't know what you are talking about. But that's normal.
Click to expand...


Doesn't the "Epistle to Hebrews" and other books in the NT _'quote'_ from the Torah scriptures?


----------



## montelatici

No, where do you get that idea.  How could an "eye for an eye" be compatible with Christianity. LOL


----------



## rylah

Really the NT doesn't _'quote'_ the Torah?


----------



## Indeependent

montelatici said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> And if every Muslim converted to Judaism, global beheading would be reduced overnight by 100%.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair, only we Christians in our liturgy reject violence, you people, Muslims and Jews, have violence written into your religious laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tell the Pope that you don't recognize The Jewish Scriptures or the references to them in The New Testament.
> I believe we have had this discussion concerning your excommunication from the RCC a few times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Pope agrees with the me and the Bible.
> 
> *Hebrews 8:13*
> By calling this covenant "new", he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That seems to be the only verse that you know from the Bible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know many, but in answering claims that Christians must accept the Jewish bible, this verse is the most apropos.
Click to expand...

You are required to accept the fact that the Torah preceded TNT as It's the Eternal Lake of Fire for you if you don't.


----------



## Indeependent

montelatici said:


> No, where do you get that idea.  How could an "eye for an eye" be compatible with Christianity. LOL


Because the verse is explicated later on that "an X for an X" refers to 5 categories of monetary damage.
But I presume a Biblical expert such as yourself already knew that.


----------



## Indeependent

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell the Pope that you don't recognize The Jewish Scriptures or the references to them in The New Testament.
> I believe we have had this discussion concerning your excommunication from the RCC a few times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Pope agrees with the me and the Bible.
> 
> *Hebrews 8:13*
> By calling this covenant "new", he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That seems to be the only verse that you know from the Bible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know many, but in answering claims that Christians must accept the Jewish bible, this verse is the most apropos.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nobody said that. You're fighting a strawman.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you constantly lie?  Are you aTrump?
> 
> This is what your pal Indee posted:
> 
> _"Tell the Pope that you don't recognize The Jewish Scriptures...."
> _
> My response was apropos.
Click to expand...

Your post was the sign of a Christian ignoramus.


----------



## American_Jihad

*TAXPAYER SUPPORT FOR PALESTINIAN TERRORIST SALARIES BECOMING IMPOSSIBLE TO DEFEND*
*Governments around the world get closer to turning off the money pipeline.*
July 14, 2017

Edwin Black






The issue of government subsidies for Palestinian terrorist salaries is again in the international spotlight. What began in November 2013, as a barely believable revelation — that taxpayers in Great Britain, the US, and other Western nations were bankrolling terrorist salaries — has now become a universally-acknowledged, impossible-to-deny, and impossible-to-defend embarrassment for governments. 

For years, officials dissembled and dodged when the question came up. After a period of silent disbelief, the mainstream media now openly confirms the salaries and routinely refers to the program with ipso factuality. Political challengers on both sides of the Atlantic stridently demand that incumbents terminate foreign aid that amounts to taxpayer-incentivized terrorism. A recent in-depth study in Israel calculates that all terror incentives and rewards paid by the Palestinian Authority over the past four years total a mind-numbing one billion dollars. 

...

As recently as July 2, Abbas publicly proclaimed, “Even if I will have to leave my position, I will not compromise on the salary (rawatib) of a Martyr (Shahid) or a prisoner.”

The next chapter in the saga of taxpayer-funded terrorism will be written by the policymakers of governmental paymasters, undoubtedly in blood.

Taxpayer Support for Palestinian Terrorist Salaries Becoming Impossible to Defend


----------



## P F Tinmore

American_Jihad said:


> *TAXPAYER SUPPORT FOR PALESTINIAN TERRORIST SALARIES BECOMING IMPOSSIBLE TO DEFEND*
> *Governments around the world get closer to turning off the money pipeline.*
> July 14, 2017
> 
> Edwin Black
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The issue of government subsidies for Palestinian terrorist salaries is again in the international spotlight. What began in November 2013, as a barely believable revelation — that taxpayers in Great Britain, the US, and other Western nations were bankrolling terrorist salaries — has now become a universally-acknowledged, impossible-to-deny, and impossible-to-defend embarrassment for governments.
> 
> For years, officials dissembled and dodged when the question came up. After a period of silent disbelief, the mainstream media now openly confirms the salaries and routinely refers to the program with ipso factuality. Political challengers on both sides of the Atlantic stridently demand that incumbents terminate foreign aid that amounts to taxpayer-incentivized terrorism. A recent in-depth study in Israel calculates that all terror incentives and rewards paid by the Palestinian Authority over the past four years total a mind-numbing one billion dollars.
> 
> ...
> 
> As recently as July 2, Abbas publicly proclaimed, “Even if I will have to leave my position, I will not compromise on the salary (rawatib) of a Martyr (Shahid) or a prisoner.”
> 
> The next chapter in the saga of taxpayer-funded terrorism will be written by the policymakers of governmental paymasters, undoubtedly in blood.
> 
> Taxpayer Support for Palestinian Terrorist Salaries Becoming Impossible to Defend


All that name calling.

Must be a propaganda site.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *TAXPAYER SUPPORT FOR PALESTINIAN TERRORIST SALARIES BECOMING IMPOSSIBLE TO DEFEND*
> *Governments around the world get closer to turning off the money pipeline.*
> July 14, 2017
> 
> Edwin Black
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The issue of government subsidies for Palestinian terrorist salaries is again in the international spotlight. What began in November 2013, as a barely believable revelation — that taxpayers in Great Britain, the US, and other Western nations were bankrolling terrorist salaries — has now become a universally-acknowledged, impossible-to-deny, and impossible-to-defend embarrassment for governments.
> 
> For years, officials dissembled and dodged when the question came up. After a period of silent disbelief, the mainstream media now openly confirms the salaries and routinely refers to the program with ipso factuality. Political challengers on both sides of the Atlantic stridently demand that incumbents terminate foreign aid that amounts to taxpayer-incentivized terrorism. A recent in-depth study in Israel calculates that all terror incentives and rewards paid by the Palestinian Authority over the past four years total a mind-numbing one billion dollars.
> 
> ...
> 
> As recently as July 2, Abbas publicly proclaimed, “Even if I will have to leave my position, I will not compromise on the salary (rawatib) of a Martyr (Shahid) or a prisoner.”
> 
> The next chapter in the saga of taxpayer-funded terrorism will be written by the policymakers of governmental paymasters, undoubtedly in blood.
> 
> Taxpayer Support for Palestinian Terrorist Salaries Becoming Impossible to Defend
> 
> 
> 
> All that name calling.
> 
> Must be a propaganda site.
Click to expand...


Flail your Pom Poms in support of your Islamic terrorist heroes. Western allowances for your degenerate societal norms won't last indefinitely.

One of the strangest dynamics one encounters in dealing with Pom Pom flailers for Islamic terrorists is their refusal to acknowledge that their Politico-religious ideology is a wellspring of hate and derision. 


H://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=A2CF3E54-DB97-41C0-BC25-27E2E3B1057D

Washington, D.C. – U.S. Senator Marco Rubio (R-FL) joined Senators Lindsey Graham (R-SC), Roy Blunt (R-MO), Tom Cotton (R-AR), Tim Scott (R-SC), John Boozman (R-AR), Ted Cruz (R-TX), Richard Burr (R-NC) and John Thune (R-SD) in reintroducing the Taylor Force Act, legislation which would cut off U.S. funding to the Palestinian Authority as long as it rewards terrorists and their surviving family members. U.S. Representatives Doug Lamborn (R-CO) and Lee Zeldin (R-NY) reintroduced the companion bill in the House.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *TAXPAYER SUPPORT FOR PALESTINIAN TERRORIST SALARIES BECOMING IMPOSSIBLE TO DEFEND*
> *Governments around the world get closer to turning off the money pipeline.*
> July 14, 2017
> 
> Edwin Black
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The issue of government subsidies for Palestinian terrorist salaries is again in the international spotlight. What began in November 2013, as a barely believable revelation — that taxpayers in Great Britain, the US, and other Western nations were bankrolling terrorist salaries — has now become a universally-acknowledged, impossible-to-deny, and impossible-to-defend embarrassment for governments.
> 
> For years, officials dissembled and dodged when the question came up. After a period of silent disbelief, the mainstream media now openly confirms the salaries and routinely refers to the program with ipso factuality. Political challengers on both sides of the Atlantic stridently demand that incumbents terminate foreign aid that amounts to taxpayer-incentivized terrorism. A recent in-depth study in Israel calculates that all terror incentives and rewards paid by the Palestinian Authority over the past four years total a mind-numbing one billion dollars.
> 
> ...
> 
> As recently as July 2, Abbas publicly proclaimed, “Even if I will have to leave my position, I will not compromise on the salary (rawatib) of a Martyr (Shahid) or a prisoner.”
> 
> The next chapter in the saga of taxpayer-funded terrorism will be written by the policymakers of governmental paymasters, undoubtedly in blood.
> 
> Taxpayer Support for Palestinian Terrorist Salaries Becoming Impossible to Defend
> 
> 
> 
> All that name calling.
> 
> Must be a propaganda site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Flail your Pom Poms in support of your Islamic terrorist heroes. Western allowances for your degenerate societal norms won't last indefinitely.
> 
> One of the strangest dynamics one encounters in dealing with Pom Pom flailers for Islamic terrorists is their refusal to acknowledge that their Politico-religious ideology is a wellspring of hate and derision.
> 
> 
> H://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=A2CF3E54-DB97-41C0-BC25-27E2E3B1057D
> 
> Washington, D.C. – U.S. Senator Marco Rubio (R-FL) joined Senators Lindsey Graham (R-SC), Roy Blunt (R-MO), Tom Cotton (R-AR), Tim Scott (R-SC), John Boozman (R-AR), Ted Cruz (R-TX), Richard Burr (R-NC) and John Thune (R-SD) in reintroducing the Taylor Force Act, legislation which would cut off U.S. funding to the Palestinian Authority as long as it rewards terrorists and their surviving family members. U.S. Representatives Doug Lamborn (R-CO) and Lee Zeldin (R-NY) reintroduced the companion bill in the House.
Click to expand...

Well, three cheers for the lackeys.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *TAXPAYER SUPPORT FOR PALESTINIAN TERRORIST SALARIES BECOMING IMPOSSIBLE TO DEFEND*
> *Governments around the world get closer to turning off the money pipeline.*
> July 14, 2017
> 
> Edwin Black
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The issue of government subsidies for Palestinian terrorist salaries is again in the international spotlight. What began in November 2013, as a barely believable revelation — that taxpayers in Great Britain, the US, and other Western nations were bankrolling terrorist salaries — has now become a universally-acknowledged, impossible-to-deny, and impossible-to-defend embarrassment for governments.
> 
> For years, officials dissembled and dodged when the question came up. After a period of silent disbelief, the mainstream media now openly confirms the salaries and routinely refers to the program with ipso factuality. Political challengers on both sides of the Atlantic stridently demand that incumbents terminate foreign aid that amounts to taxpayer-incentivized terrorism. A recent in-depth study in Israel calculates that all terror incentives and rewards paid by the Palestinian Authority over the past four years total a mind-numbing one billion dollars.
> 
> ...
> 
> As recently as July 2, Abbas publicly proclaimed, “Even if I will have to leave my position, I will not compromise on the salary (rawatib) of a Martyr (Shahid) or a prisoner.”
> 
> The next chapter in the saga of taxpayer-funded terrorism will be written by the policymakers of governmental paymasters, undoubtedly in blood.
> 
> Taxpayer Support for Palestinian Terrorist Salaries Becoming Impossible to Defend
> 
> 
> 
> All that name calling.
> 
> Must be a propaganda site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Flail your Pom Poms in support of your Islamic terrorist heroes. Western allowances for your degenerate societal norms won't last indefinitely.
> 
> One of the strangest dynamics one encounters in dealing with Pom Pom flailers for Islamic terrorists is their refusal to acknowledge that their Politico-religious ideology is a wellspring of hate and derision.
> 
> 
> H://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=A2CF3E54-DB97-41C0-BC25-27E2E3B1057D
> 
> Washington, D.C. – U.S. Senator Marco Rubio (R-FL) joined Senators Lindsey Graham (R-SC), Roy Blunt (R-MO), Tom Cotton (R-AR), Tim Scott (R-SC), John Boozman (R-AR), Ted Cruz (R-TX), Richard Burr (R-NC) and John Thune (R-SD) in reintroducing the Taylor Force Act, legislation which would cut off U.S. funding to the Palestinian Authority as long as it rewards terrorists and their surviving family members. U.S. Representatives Doug Lamborn (R-CO) and Lee Zeldin (R-NY) reintroduced the companion bill in the House.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, three cheers for the lackeys.
Click to expand...


Maybe suggest to the prayer leader at your madrassah that you people need to step up your breeding efforts. The Arabs-Moslems masquerading as "Pal'istanians" need a continuing supply of children you can throw onto your bonfires of hate.


----------



## louie888

Hollie said:


> Maybe suggest to the prayer leader at your madrassah that you people need to step up your breeding efforts. The Arabs-Moslems masquerading as "Pal'istanians" need a continuing supply of children you can throw onto your bonfires of hate.


Maybe suggest to the prayer leader at your temple that you people need to step up your breeding efforts. The Europeans masquerading as "jews" need a continuing supply of children you can throw onto your bonfires of hate.


----------



## Hollie

louie888 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe suggest to the prayer leader at your madrassah that you people need to step up your breeding efforts. The Arabs-Moslems masquerading as "Pal'istanians" need a continuing supply of children you can throw onto your bonfires of hate.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe suggest to the prayer leader at your temple that you people need to step up your breeding efforts. The Europeans masquerading as "jews" need a continuing supply of children you can throw onto your bonfires of hate.
Click to expand...


There's my little plagiarist / stalker. 

It's so cute when Habib is forced to plagiarize posts to defend Islamic terrorism.


----------



## American_Jihad

*PALESTINIANS OPPOSE ISRAELI METAL DETECTORS AT THE TEMPLE MOUNT*
*When it comes to Islamic justice, prayers are not enough.*
July 21, 2017

Joseph Klein





Last Friday, three Arabs killed two Israeli police officers who were guarding an entrance to Jerusalem’s holy compound, known to Jews as the Temple Mount and to Muslims as the Noble Sanctuary. The police officers were shot with arms that had evidently been smuggled into the compound and stashed there. This latest attack was another in an unending series of terrorist murders of Israelis, but this time the attack took place at Old Jerusalem’s sacred site itself. It also may have been orchestrated by a Hezbollah-run cell, acting on orders from Iran, according to a Debkafile report


----------



## American_Jihad

*AFTER US CALL TO STOP TERROR CASH, PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY BOOSTS TERROR BUDGET*
July 20, 2017

Daniel Greenfield





Paging Rex Tillerson.

This is a very deliberate show by the Palestinian Authority that not only won't it stop funding terrorists, but that it will actually fund them even more. It comes after multiple statements by the PA leadership making it clear that this will continue.

Let's flash back to Secretary of State Tillerson's claim to the Senate.

...

The question is what are we going to do about it?

Will the US government meet this defiance by cracking down? Will the Senate pass an undiluted version of the Taylor Force Act which makes it clear that we'll stop funding the PA if it doesn't stop funding terror? Or will Tillerson come back in a few months and once again falsely claim that the terror funding has stopped.


After US Call to Stop Terror Cash, Palestinian Authority Boosts Terror Budget


----------



## American_Jihad

I wish these people all the ill I can muster, may they all be hellbound...

*PALESTINIANS, MOTHER OF TERRORIST, CELEBRATE SLAUGHTER OF JEWISH FAMILY*
*“Praise Allah. I am proud of my son. May Allah be pleased with him.”*
July 24, 2017

Joseph Klein





A Palestinian mother extolled her 19-year old son’s “accomplishment” in the name of Allah. She exclaimed:  “Praise Allah. I am proud of my son. May Allah be pleased with him.” The mother was not celebrating her son’s graduation, new job, marriage, fatherhood or some other life-affirming event. Rather, she was celebrating the deaths that her terrorist offspring, Omar al-Abed, brought to a Jewish family on July 21st. The family was about to sit down for a Sabbath dinner and to celebrate the birth of a grandson that same day when the Palestinian terrorist prodigy invaded the family’s home. Wielding a knife, he proceeded to kill a grandfather, his daughter and his son, and to seriously wound the grandmother. The massacre ended only after a neighbor, who belongs to an elite IDF unit and was home on leave, heard cries for help from the house and shot the terrorist. Al-Abed was eventually handcuffed and taken to a hospital for treatment of his wounds. 

The terrorist’s mother was joined in her celebration by Palestinians dancing in the street in Gaza. Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh reportedly phoned Omar al-Abed’s father to congratulate him for what his son had done to bring “pride to the nation.” 

...

Palestinians continue to reject all paths to a reasonable compromise on any issue related to the conflict that they created in the first place by not accepting a two-state solution seven decades ago. There is no reason to expect any different outcome this time. As Debkafile put it so well: “The Palestinians are consistent in their tactics: First shed Israeli blood, then tell the world they are victims and as martyrs are justified in seeking revenge.” As usual, much of the "international community," as represented in the UN, will fall for this charade.

Palestinians, Mother of Terrorist, Celebrate Slaughter Of Jewish Family


----------



## American_Jihad

*THE FAILED PALESTINIAN-ARAB LEADERSHIP*
*Bassem Eid: “We Palestinians need Dignity, not Identity.”*
July 25, 2017

Joseph Puder





On a recent trip to Israel, this reporter repeatedly heard the refrain “If only the Palestinian people had decent leadership that sought out their people’s best interests, peace between Israel and the Palestinians would be possible.” In a_ Brooking Institute_ article by Khaled Elgindy (January 5, 2016), titled “_The Palestinian Leadership Crisis_,” Elgindy writes: “A recent poll conducted just before the latest upsurge in violence, for example, found that nearly two-thirds of Palestinians want Palestinian Authority (PA) President Mahmoud Abbas to resign.  Moreover, the absence of credible and coherent Palestinian leadership has major implications, not only for the future of the Palestinian national movement, but for the prospects of an Israeli-Palestinian peace and broader U.S. policy goals in the region.”

In the aftermath of WWI, the Palestinian-Arab community, unlike the “Yeshuv,” (the Jewish community in pre-State Palestine), failed to establish their own modern political institutions. In the neighboring Arab states, institutions such as Parliament, political parties, and a constitution had been established. Instead, the Palestinians relied on leading families who pursued their personal and family interests, rather than the interests of their people.  These were the generally urban (Jerusalem based) families such as the al-Husseini’s, and al-Nashashibis.  The Palestinian-Arabs lacked a political framework and failed to grasp the notion of self-determination.

Palestinian leaders from Haj Amin al-Husseini (The Mufti of Jerusalem and Adolf Hitler’s ally and friend), to Yasser Arafat, and Mahmoud Abbas, sought to incite their Palestinian people against the Jews through intimidation, boycotts and violence.  None considered establishing democratic institutions that would serve the Palestinian people through the rule of law, human and civil rights, and religious freedom, while simultaneously serving their political and economic interests.  Instruments of power such as the media, mosques, and the educational system echo the violent messages of these leaders.

The Mufti, Haj Amin al-Husseini, incited murderous violence against Jews in Jerusalem during Passover on April 4, 1920.  The unprovoked riots against Jews led to the establishment of the Haganah, a Jewish defense force, established by Ze’ev Jabotinsky.  On August 23, 1929, an Arab mob, incited by Haj Amin al-Husseini, launched an assault on Jerusalem’s Jews over Jewish prayers at the Western Wall. It soon spread to the ancient Jewish community of Hebron, where 67 Jews were massacred in cold blood. Husseini was sentenced for the 1920 riots, but was pardoned by the British appeasers.  In April, 1936, Palestinian-Arab riots, ostensibly against the British Mandatory government, broke out again. It was led by Haj Amin al-Husseini, this time under the cover of the Arab High Committee.  It went from a general strike and boycott of Jewish products to murderous violence against Jews.  It ultimately resulted in another British Royal Commission of investigation, this time named the Peel Commission.  In 1937, the Peel Commission recommended the partition of Palestine as a result of Husseini's objections to any Jewish presence on the land. 

The same lack of Palestinian leadership that turned down the Peel Commission recommendation for partition, rejected the 1947 UN Partition Plan that would have resulted in a Palestinian state.

...

THE FAILED PALESTINIAN-ARAB LEADERSHIP


----------



## P F Tinmore

American_Jihad said:


> *THE FAILED PALESTINIAN-ARAB LEADERSHIP*
> *Bassem Eid: “We Palestinians need Dignity, not Identity.”*
> July 25, 2017
> 
> Joseph Puder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a recent trip to Israel, this reporter repeatedly heard the refrain “If only the Palestinian people had decent leadership that sought out their people’s best interests, peace between Israel and the Palestinians would be possible.” In a_ Brooking Institute_ article by Khaled Elgindy (January 5, 2016), titled “_The Palestinian Leadership Crisis_,” Elgindy writes: “A recent poll conducted just before the latest upsurge in violence, for example, found that nearly two-thirds of Palestinians want Palestinian Authority (PA) President Mahmoud Abbas to resign.  Moreover, the absence of credible and coherent Palestinian leadership has major implications, not only for the future of the Palestinian national movement, but for the prospects of an Israeli-Palestinian peace and broader U.S. policy goals in the region.”
> 
> In the aftermath of WWI, the Palestinian-Arab community, unlike the “Yeshuv,” (the Jewish community in pre-State Palestine), failed to establish their own modern political institutions. In the neighboring Arab states, institutions such as Parliament, political parties, and a constitution had been established. Instead, the Palestinians relied on leading families who pursued their personal and family interests, rather than the interests of their people.  These were the generally urban (Jerusalem based) families such as the al-Husseini’s, and al-Nashashibis.  The Palestinian-Arabs lacked a political framework and failed to grasp the notion of self-determination.
> 
> Palestinian leaders from Haj Amin al-Husseini (The Mufti of Jerusalem and Adolf Hitler’s ally and friend), to Yasser Arafat, and Mahmoud Abbas, sought to incite their Palestinian people against the Jews through intimidation, boycotts and violence.  None considered establishing democratic institutions that would serve the Palestinian people through the rule of law, human and civil rights, and religious freedom, while simultaneously serving their political and economic interests.  Instruments of power such as the media, mosques, and the educational system echo the violent messages of these leaders.
> 
> The Mufti, Haj Amin al-Husseini, incited murderous violence against Jews in Jerusalem during Passover on April 4, 1920.  The unprovoked riots against Jews led to the establishment of the Haganah, a Jewish defense force, established by Ze’ev Jabotinsky.  On August 23, 1929, an Arab mob, incited by Haj Amin al-Husseini, launched an assault on Jerusalem’s Jews over Jewish prayers at the Western Wall. It soon spread to the ancient Jewish community of Hebron, where 67 Jews were massacred in cold blood. Husseini was sentenced for the 1920 riots, but was pardoned by the British appeasers.  In April, 1936, Palestinian-Arab riots, ostensibly against the British Mandatory government, broke out again. It was led by Haj Amin al-Husseini, this time under the cover of the Arab High Committee.  It went from a general strike and boycott of Jewish products to murderous violence against Jews.  It ultimately resulted in another British Royal Commission of investigation, this time named the Peel Commission.  In 1937, the Peel Commission recommended the partition of Palestine as a result of Husseini's objections to any Jewish presence on the land.
> 
> The same lack of Palestinian leadership that turned down the Peel Commission recommendation for partition, rejected the 1947 UN Partition Plan that would have resulted in a Palestinian state.
> 
> ...
> 
> THE FAILED PALESTINIAN-ARAB LEADERSHIP


Clearly Israel's version of history.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *THE FAILED PALESTINIAN-ARAB LEADERSHIP*
> *Bassem Eid: “We Palestinians need Dignity, not Identity.”*
> July 25, 2017
> 
> Joseph Puder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a recent trip to Israel, this reporter repeatedly heard the refrain “If only the Palestinian people had decent leadership that sought out their people’s best interests, peace between Israel and the Palestinians would be possible.” In a_ Brooking Institute_ article by Khaled Elgindy (January 5, 2016), titled “_The Palestinian Leadership Crisis_,” Elgindy writes: “A recent poll conducted just before the latest upsurge in violence, for example, found that nearly two-thirds of Palestinians want Palestinian Authority (PA) President Mahmoud Abbas to resign.  Moreover, the absence of credible and coherent Palestinian leadership has major implications, not only for the future of the Palestinian national movement, but for the prospects of an Israeli-Palestinian peace and broader U.S. policy goals in the region.”
> 
> In the aftermath of WWI, the Palestinian-Arab community, unlike the “Yeshuv,” (the Jewish community in pre-State Palestine), failed to establish their own modern political institutions. In the neighboring Arab states, institutions such as Parliament, political parties, and a constitution had been established. Instead, the Palestinians relied on leading families who pursued their personal and family interests, rather than the interests of their people.  These were the generally urban (Jerusalem based) families such as the al-Husseini’s, and al-Nashashibis.  The Palestinian-Arabs lacked a political framework and failed to grasp the notion of self-determination.
> 
> Palestinian leaders from Haj Amin al-Husseini (The Mufti of Jerusalem and Adolf Hitler’s ally and friend), to Yasser Arafat, and Mahmoud Abbas, sought to incite their Palestinian people against the Jews through intimidation, boycotts and violence.  None considered establishing democratic institutions that would serve the Palestinian people through the rule of law, human and civil rights, and religious freedom, while simultaneously serving their political and economic interests.  Instruments of power such as the media, mosques, and the educational system echo the violent messages of these leaders.
> 
> The Mufti, Haj Amin al-Husseini, incited murderous violence against Jews in Jerusalem during Passover on April 4, 1920.  The unprovoked riots against Jews led to the establishment of the Haganah, a Jewish defense force, established by Ze’ev Jabotinsky.  On August 23, 1929, an Arab mob, incited by Haj Amin al-Husseini, launched an assault on Jerusalem’s Jews over Jewish prayers at the Western Wall. It soon spread to the ancient Jewish community of Hebron, where 67 Jews were massacred in cold blood. Husseini was sentenced for the 1920 riots, but was pardoned by the British appeasers.  In April, 1936, Palestinian-Arab riots, ostensibly against the British Mandatory government, broke out again. It was led by Haj Amin al-Husseini, this time under the cover of the Arab High Committee.  It went from a general strike and boycott of Jewish products to murderous violence against Jews.  It ultimately resulted in another British Royal Commission of investigation, this time named the Peel Commission.  In 1937, the Peel Commission recommended the partition of Palestine as a result of Husseini's objections to any Jewish presence on the land.
> 
> The same lack of Palestinian leadership that turned down the Peel Commission recommendation for partition, rejected the 1947 UN Partition Plan that would have resulted in a Palestinian state.
> 
> ...
> 
> THE FAILED PALESTINIAN-ARAB LEADERSHIP
> 
> 
> 
> Clearly Israel's version of history.
Click to expand...



Clearly from a Palestinian himself. 
Clearly from a Palestinian who knows what he is talking about.
And clearly you do recognize such Palestinians.
You and others call them  "traitors".

Sane people call them real, courageous, and intent on putting an end to the Hamas, Abbas intention of destroying Israel and all Jews.

Clearly something you would like to see happen.

The destruction of Israel and all Jews.

But then, you have made yourself to be known very clearly as a prime candidate for the Nobel Prize in destroying Israel.

Yes, Tin, you are way up there with all the others vying and eventually receiving this more than prestigious Nobel Prize award.

In your dreams, of course.


----------



## MJB12741

What Palestinian leadership has done to their Palestinians from Arafat to Hamas is hard to forgive.  But then, who are the people who elected them?


----------



## montelatici

From the outset the Palestinians tried heartily to establish a working government, the British stopped them at every turn, even to the point where Churchill and the colonial office would not recognize the Palestinian congress as representing the Palestinian people while recognizing the the "Zionist Organization" as the authoritative representative of the Jews, wherever they lived.  

It was a sham. The British were intent on preventing the Palestinians from establishing a governement because they wanted the Jews to rule Palestine.

From the early correspondence of the Palestinian Delegation to the colonial office what they wanted:

"The Delegation requests that the constitution for Palestine should—"

Churchill's answer:

"2. I am to point out in the first place that, while your Delegation is recognised by Mr. Churchill as representing a large section of the Moslem and Christian inhabitants of Palestine, and while the Secretary of State is anxious to discuss his present proposals informally with recognised representatives, such as yourselves, of any important section of the community, he is not in a position to negotiate officially with you or with any other body which claims to represent the whole or, part of the people of Palestine....", 

UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)


So, that bullshit you posted is a bunch of baloney.  There is not a shred of truth to the assertions of the Uncle Tom.


----------



## Challenger

Sixties Fan said:


> Clearly from a Palestinian himself.



Joseph puder? Director of the American Jewish Congress Interfaith Task Force for America and Israel? Don't think so.



Sixties Fan said:


> Clearly from a Palestinian who knows what he is talking about.



Still not a Palestinian. Khaled Elgindy's article, on the other hand, makes no mention of anything written by Puder's Zionist distortion of the historical record. The Palestinian leadership crisis 



Sixties Fan said:


> Sane people call them real, courageous, and intent on putting an end to the Hamas, Abbas intention of destroying Israel and all Jews.



Sane people actually read an article before bloviating and trying to conflate a legitimate liberation struggle against a foreign occupying power and Jewish people in general just to score cheap Hasbara points. 

It must have been so nice for you in the sixties, spaced out on LSD with not a care in the world; pity it's rotted your brain, now.


----------



## American_Jihad

*RADICAL LEFT-WING HA’ARETZ COLUMNIST GIDEON LEVI JUSTIFIES TERRORISM, AGAIN*
*A twisted interpretation of a horrific tragedy.*
July 27, 2017

Roni Bialer





In a recent op-ed in the left wing newspaper Ha’aretz, Gideon Levi called on all ‘honest Israelis’ to read the Facebook suicide note of the Palestinian who brutally stabbed three Israelis to death last Friday night as they were eating the Sabbath dinner.

Levi hopes that Israelis who read this facebook suicide note will gain a better understanding of the reality the Palestinians live in and the issues that drive them to violence.  If Levi’s desire for both Israelis and Palestinians to understand the other was genuine, that would be a praiseworthy aspiration, and his call to Israelis to understand the Palestinians should be taken seriously. Yet, Levi has a certain narrative that he has forced down the throats of Israelis and readers abroad for years, blaming  Israelis for Palestinian violence and terror, be it because of Israelis living in Judea and Samaria (West Bank), IDF military operations, or any Israeli policy that upsets the Palestinians.  And here, with the latest terror attack, Levi once again attempts to pump that narrative, convinced of its truth, even though in the process he  is forced to bend and twist the words of the Palestinians themselves. 

...

Radical Left-Wing Ha’aretz Columnist Gideon Levi Justifies Terrorism, Again


----------



## montelatici

American_Jihad said:


> *RADICAL LEFT-WING HA’ARETZ COLUMNIST GIDEON LEVI JUSTIFIES TERRORISM, AGAIN*
> *A twisted interpretation of a horrific tragedy.*
> July 27, 2017
> 
> Roni Bialer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a recent op-ed in the left wing newspaper Ha’aretz, Gideon Levi called on all ‘honest Israelis’ to read the Facebook suicide note of the Palestinian who brutally stabbed three Israelis to death last Friday night as they were eating the Sabbath dinner.
> 
> Levi hopes that Israelis who read this facebook suicide note will gain a better understanding of the reality the Palestinians live in and the issues that drive them to violence.  If Levi’s desire for both Israelis and Palestinians to understand the other was genuine, that would be a praiseworthy aspiration, and his call to Israelis to understand the Palestinians should be taken seriously. Yet, Levi has a certain narrative that he has forced down the throats of Israelis and readers abroad for years, blaming  Israelis for Palestinian violence and terror, be it because of Israelis living in Judea and Samaria (West Bank), IDF military operations, or any Israeli policy that upsets the Palestinians.  And here, with the latest terror attack, Levi once again attempts to pump that narrative, convinced of its truth, even though in the process he  is forced to bend and twist the words of the Palestinians themselves.
> 
> ...
> 
> Radical Left-Wing Ha’aretz Columnist Gideon Levi Justifies Terrorism, Again



Of course it's the truth.  The occupier is always the primary cause of violence against the occupation.  You people are delusional if you think otherwise.  Were the non-whites the cause of the violence against the whites in Apartheid South Africa?  Were the Algerians the cause of the violence against the French forces and colonists in Algeria?


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> Of course it's the truth.  The occupier is always the primary cause of violence against the occupation.



Violence is not "caused" by disagreements or competing narratives.  Violence is a choice and a strategy.  People CAN actually choose not to be violent.  

This is just a way to dump sole responsibility onto Israel.


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it's the truth.  The occupier is always the primary cause of violence against the occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Violence is not "caused" by disagreements or competing narratives.  Violence is a choice and a strategy.  People CAN actually choose not to be violent.
> 
> This is just a way to dump sole responsibility onto Israel.
Click to expand...


There is no competing narrative.  The Christians and Muslims were living in Palestine.  A population of foreigners were transported to Palestine in order to subjugate the Christians and Muslims and establish a colony.  What other narrative is there?

What country has ever not used violence against an occupying military/colonial power?  I can't think of one.


----------



## Shusha

You know very well what the competing narrative is.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> From the outset the Palestinians tried heartily to establish a working government, the British stopped them at every turn, even to the point where Churchill and the colonial office would not recognize the Palestinian congress as representing the Palestinian people while recognizing the the "Zionist Organization" as the authoritative representative of the Jews, wherever they lived.
> 
> It was a sham. The British were intent on preventing the Palestinians from establishing a governement because they wanted the Jews to rule Palestine.
> 
> From the early correspondence of the Palestinian Delegation to the colonial office what they wanted:
> 
> "The Delegation requests that the constitution for Palestine should—"
> 
> Churchill's answer:
> 
> "2. I am to point out in the first place that, while your Delegation is recognised by Mr. Churchill as representing a large section of the Moslem and Christian inhabitants of Palestine, and while the Secretary of State is anxious to discuss his present proposals informally with recognised representatives, such as yourselves, of any important section of the community, he is not in a position to negotiate officially with you or with any other body which claims to represent the whole or, part of the people of Palestine....",
> 
> UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
> 
> 
> So, that bullshit you posted is a bunch of baloney.  There is not a shred of truth to the assertions of the Uncle Tom.



Your silly conspiracy theory about the British preventing the Arabs-Moslems from establishing a working government and the British wanting the Jews to rule Palestine is a total hoot. 

It's always comical to see you rattle off the loopy conspiracy theories without a single, supportable piece of evidence. But then, that's the stuff of conspiracy theories.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it's the truth.  The occupier is always the primary cause of violence against the occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Violence is not "caused" by disagreements or competing narratives.  Violence is a choice and a strategy.  People CAN actually choose not to be violent.
> 
> This is just a way to dump sole responsibility onto Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no competing narrative.  The Christians and Muslims were living in Palestine.  A population of foreigners were transported to Palestine in order to subjugate the Christians and Muslims and establish a colony.  What other narrative is there?
> 
> What country has ever not used violence against an occupying military/colonial power?  I can't think of one.
Click to expand...


Who, specifically arranged for, and can you identify when and where your "Jew transportation" took place?

Your post appears to be just another of your goofy conspiracy theories.


----------



## American_Jihad

*ERDOGAN’S GENOCIDAL INCITEMENT*
*Funding Palestinian Jew-hatred.*
August 7, 2017

Joseph Puder






Turkey’s dictatorial president Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s recent efforts to mediate between the Saudis, their Arab Gulf allies and Egypt on one side versus his Qatari ally (both are staunch supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood) on the other, have failed to materialize.  At the same time, his war of words with Germany, and the European Union’s cold shoulder, has left the arrogant Erdogan with one avenue to make headlines - incite Muslims against Israel.  His crude anti-Semitic incitement has gone hand-in-hand with his posturing as the leader of the Sunni-Muslim world. 

Erdogan has called on Muslims to show solidarity with the Palestinians by flooding Jerusalem’s Temple Mount.  He has used invectives against Israel with such words as “racist and discriminatory.” This comes after the Israeli government backed away from a confrontation with the incited Muslim community, and ordered the removal of the metal detectors and security cameras.  The Israeli actions followed a week of Palestinian rioting, and the murders of three Israeli family members by a Palestinian terrorist.  Erdogan declared that, “In our religion and historical responsibility for Al-Quds and the fight of our Palestinian brothers for rights and justice is of great importance to us.” 

...

Erdogan is providing money to Palestinians to continue their violent demonstrations against Israel, allegedly to “defend” Al-Aqsa. This is a dangerous game the megalomaniacal Erdogan is playing in order gain influence with the Arab masses, ultimately, at the cost of Palestinian and Israeli blood.  

ERDOGAN’S Genocidal INCITEMENT


----------



## Kondor3

American_Jihad said:


> *ERDOGAN’S GENOCIDAL INCITEMENT*
> *Funding Palestinian Jew-hatred.*
> August 7, 2017
> 
> Joseph Puder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey’s dictatorial president Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s recent efforts to mediate between the Saudis, their Arab Gulf allies and Egypt on one side versus his Qatari ally (both are staunch supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood) on the other, have failed to materialize.  At the same time, his war of words with Germany, and the European Union’s cold shoulder, has left the arrogant Erdogan with one avenue to make headlines - incite Muslims against Israel.  His crude anti-Semitic incitement has gone hand-in-hand with his posturing as the leader of the Sunni-Muslim world.
> 
> Erdogan has called on Muslims to show solidarity with the Palestinians by flooding Jerusalem’s Temple Mount.  He has used invectives against Israel with such words as “racist and discriminatory.” This comes after the Israeli government backed away from a confrontation with the incited Muslim community, and ordered the removal of the metal detectors and security cameras.  The Israeli actions followed a week of Palestinian rioting, and the murders of three Israeli family members by a Palestinian terrorist.  Erdogan declared that, “In our religion and historical responsibility for Al-Quds and the fight of our Palestinian brothers for rights and justice is of great importance to us.”
> 
> ...
> 
> Erdogan is providing money to Palestinians to continue their violent demonstrations against Israel, allegedly to “defend” Al-Aqsa. This is a dangerous game the megalomaniacal Erdogan is playing in order gain influence with the Arab masses, ultimately, at the cost of Palestinian and Israeli blood.
> 
> ERDOGAN’S Genocidal INCITEMENT


This whacked-out Muzzie Jihadist in a suit-and-tie may not be long for this world.


----------



## American_Jihad

*PREPARING FOR THE POST-ABBAS ERA*
*New threats -- and new opportunities -- lie ahead for Israel.*
August 9, 2017

Caroline Glick





PLO chief and Palestinian Authority chairman Mahmoud Abbas scored a victory against Israel at the Temple Mount. But it was a Pyrrhic one.

Days after the government bowed to his demand and voted to remove the metal detectors from the Temple Mount, Abbas checked into the hospital for tests. The 82-year-old dictator has heart disease and a series of other serious health issues. And he has refused to appoint a successor.

It is widely assumed that once he exits the stage, the situation in the PA-ruled areas in Judea and Samaria – otherwise known as Areas A and B – will change in fundamental ways.

This week, two prominent Palestinian advocates, Hussein Agha and Ahmad Samih Khalidi, published an article in The New Yorker entitled “The end of this road: The decline of the Palestinian national movement.”

...

PREPARING FOR THE POST-ABBAS ERA


----------



## P F Tinmore

American_Jihad said:


> *PREPARING FOR THE POST-ABBAS ERA*
> *New threats -- and new opportunities -- lie ahead for Israel.*
> August 9, 2017
> 
> Caroline Glick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PLO chief and Palestinian Authority chairman Mahmoud Abbas scored a victory against Israel at the Temple Mount. But it was a Pyrrhic one.
> 
> Days after the government bowed to his demand and voted to remove the metal detectors from the Temple Mount, Abbas checked into the hospital for tests. The 82-year-old dictator has heart disease and a series of other serious health issues. And he has refused to appoint a successor.
> 
> It is widely assumed that once he exits the stage, the situation in the PA-ruled areas in Judea and Samaria – otherwise known as Areas A and B – will change in fundamental ways.
> 
> This week, two prominent Palestinian advocates, Hussein Agha and Ahmad Samih Khalidi, published an article in The New Yorker entitled “The end of this road: The decline of the Palestinian national movement.”
> 
> ...
> 
> PREPARING FOR THE POST-ABBAS ERA


Indeed, the old guard who sold out decades ago are coming to an end.


American_Jihad said:


> The 82-year-old dictator has heart disease and a series of other serious health issues. And he has refused to appoint a successor.


He is not supposed to appoint a successor. There is a constitutional procedure for replacing a president. It will be interesting to see who runs. Whoever it is will take over Palestine's vast security service that consumes about 30% of Palestine's budget. Under Abbas, these services work for Israel. I can't think of one instance where any of them stepped up to the plate to defend a Palestinian. Even members of parliament and cabinet ministers are kidnapped off the streets or yanked out of their homes without a cop in sight. What would happen under new leadership?

Needless to say that the US/Israel will not allow the Palestinians to choose their own leader. They will just install another dictator like Abbas.


----------



## MJB12741

P F Tinmore said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *PREPARING FOR THE POST-ABBAS ERA*
> *New threats -- and new opportunities -- lie ahead for Israel.*
> August 9, 2017
> 
> Caroline Glick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PLO chief and Palestinian Authority chairman Mahmoud Abbas scored a victory against Israel at the Temple Mount. But it was a Pyrrhic one.
> 
> Days after the government bowed to his demand and voted to remove the metal detectors from the Temple Mount, Abbas checked into the hospital for tests. The 82-year-old dictator has heart disease and a series of other serious health issues. And he has refused to appoint a successor.
> 
> It is widely assumed that once he exits the stage, the situation in the PA-ruled areas in Judea and Samaria – otherwise known as Areas A and B – will change in fundamental ways.
> 
> This week, two prominent Palestinian advocates, Hussein Agha and Ahmad Samih Khalidi, published an article in The New Yorker entitled “The end of this road: The decline of the Palestinian national movement.”
> 
> ...
> 
> PREPARING FOR THE POST-ABBAS ERA
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the old guard who sold out decades ago are coming to an end.
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 82-year-old dictator has heart disease and a series of other serious health issues. And he has refused to appoint a successor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is not supposed to appoint a successor. There is a constitutional procedure for replacing a president. It will be interesting to see who runs. Whoever it is will take over Palestine's vast security service that consumes about 30% of Palestine's budget. Under Abbas, these services work for Israel. I can't think of one instance where any of them stepped up to the plate to defend a Palestinian. Even members of parliament and cabinet ministers are kidnapped off the streets or yanked out of their homes without a cop in sight. What would happen under new leadership?
> 
> Needless to say that the US/Israel will not allow the Palestinians to choose their own leader. They will just install another dictator like Abbas.
Click to expand...


Great points Tinmore.  I say Hamas has earned the right to lead the Palestinians.  Just look at all the wonderful things Hamas has done for them.  Will you help me list some to educate those Zionists?


----------



## MJB12741

MJB12741 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *PREPARING FOR THE POST-ABBAS ERA*
> *New threats -- and new opportunities -- lie ahead for Israel.*
> August 9, 2017
> 
> Caroline Glick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PLO chief and Palestinian Authority chairman Mahmoud Abbas scored a victory against Israel at the Temple Mount. But it was a Pyrrhic one.
> 
> Days after the government bowed to his demand and voted to remove the metal detectors from the Temple Mount, Abbas checked into the hospital for tests. The 82-year-old dictator has heart disease and a series of other serious health issues. And he has refused to appoint a successor.
> 
> It is widely assumed that once he exits the stage, the situation in the PA-ruled areas in Judea and Samaria – otherwise known as Areas A and B – will change in fundamental ways.
> 
> This week, two prominent Palestinian advocates, Hussein Agha and Ahmad Samih Khalidi, published an article in The New Yorker entitled “The end of this road: The decline of the Palestinian national movement.”
> 
> ...
> 
> PREPARING FOR THE POST-ABBAS ERA
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the old guard who sold out decades ago are coming to an end.
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 82-year-old dictator has heart disease and a series of other serious health issues. And he has refused to appoint a successor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is not supposed to appoint a successor. There is a constitutional procedure for replacing a president. It will be interesting to see who runs. Whoever it is will take over Palestine's vast security service that consumes about 30% of Palestine's budget. Under Abbas, these services work for Israel. I can't think of one instance where any of them stepped up to the plate to defend a Palestinian. Even members of parliament and cabinet ministers are kidnapped off the streets or yanked out of their homes without a cop in sight. What would happen under new leadership?
> 
> Needless to say that the US/Israel will not allow the Palestinians to choose their own leader. They will just install another dictator like Abbas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Great points Tinmore.  I say Hamas has earned the right to lead the Palestinians.  Just look at all the wonderful things Hamas has done for them.  Will you help me list some to educate those Zionists?
Click to expand...


Farewell Abbas.  You had Israel by the balls placating Palestinian demands.  LONG LIVE THE DULY ELECTED PALESTINIAN GOVERNMENT OF HAMAS!

Hamas Is Destroying Gaza


----------



## American_Jihad

*OUR REACTIONARY STATE DEPARTMENT*
*Fantasies about the Palestinians' “commitment” to peace.*
August 11, 2017

Bruce Thornton





If a reactionary is someone who stubbornly opposes change, the State Department is a prime example of an institution mired in fossilized paradigms and narratives. Unable to discard received institutional wisdom in the face of historical facts both new and old, Foggy Bottom continues to live up to its moniker, blind to the historical realities and ideologies that should be determining our foreign policy.

The State Department’s recently released, and suitably criticized, Country Report on Terrorism 2016 is filled with examples of rote adherence to exploded analytic clichés. It takes a monumental effort of willful blindness to write of Mahmoud Abbas and the PA that “explicit calls for violence against Israelis are rare and the leadership does not generally tolerate it.” You have to go back to September 1938 and Neville Chamberlain saying that Hitler “was speaking the truth” and “would not deliberately deceive a man whom he respected” to find such a preposterous misreading of plain facts.

But such myopia is endemic in the foreign policy establishment. Another example comes from a recent column by CNN talking-head and long-time Middle East hand Aaron David Miller. Writing in Politico, Miller analyzes the leaked (of course) transcript of some remarks by Jared Kushner, Trump’s son-in-law, who’s been charged with working on an agreement between Israel and the Palestinian Arabs. Miller, at least in this essay, is no knee-jerk anti-Trumpian, and treats Kushner with respect. But this makes his repetition of long-exploded “expert” comments about the conflict even more depressing than if they came from a wild-eyed partisan.

...

Our Reactionary State Department


----------



## MJB12741

American_Jihad said:


> *OUR REACTIONARY STATE DEPARTMENT*
> *Fantasies about the Palestinians' “commitment” to peace.*
> August 11, 2017
> 
> Bruce Thornton
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If a reactionary is someone who stubbornly opposes change, the State Department is a prime example of an institution mired in fossilized paradigms and narratives. Unable to discard received institutional wisdom in the face of historical facts both new and old, Foggy Bottom continues to live up to its moniker, blind to the historical realities and ideologies that should be determining our foreign policy.
> 
> The State Department’s recently released, and suitably criticized, Country Report on Terrorism 2016 is filled with examples of rote adherence to exploded analytic clichés. It takes a monumental effort of willful blindness to write of Mahmoud Abbas and the PA that “explicit calls for violence against Israelis are rare and the leadership does not generally tolerate it.” You have to go back to September 1938 and Neville Chamberlain saying that Hitler “was speaking the truth” and “would not deliberately deceive a man whom he respected” to find such a preposterous misreading of plain facts.
> 
> But such myopia is endemic in the foreign policy establishment. Another example comes from a recent column by CNN talking-head and long-time Middle East hand Aaron David Miller. Writing in Politico, Miller analyzes the leaked (of course) transcript of some remarks by Jared Kushner, Trump’s son-in-law, who’s been charged with working on an agreement between Israel and the Palestinian Arabs. Miller, at least in this essay, is no knee-jerk anti-Trumpian, and treats Kushner with respect. But this makes his repetition of long-exploded “expert” comments about the conflict even more depressing than if they came from a wild-eyed partisan.
> 
> ...
> 
> Our Reactionary State Department



Maybe Louie will be a good guy & start a thread for us called "Palestinian commitment to peace."  Heh Heh!


----------



## Dogmaphobe

MJB12741 said:


> a thread for us called "Palestinian commitment to peace."  !




 Dear MJB -- this is an issue I have studied extensively, and below you will find a deep and in depth dissertation regarding all the ways in which those Arabs who call themselves "Palestinians" have engaged so as to foster peace. I have left no stone unturned, have not left out even the tiniest detail and will provide you ALL the rich historical evidence of these proud people's long quest for peace since their invention in the 1960's.

here goes:






















.


----------



## montelatici

Dogmaphobe said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> a thread for us called "Palestinian commitment to peace."  !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear MJB -- this is an issue I have studied extensively, and below you will find a deep and in depth dissertation regarding all the ways in which those Arabs who call themselves "Palestinians" have engaged so as to foster peace. I have left no stone unturned, have not left out even the tiniest detail and will provide you ALL the rich historical evidence of these proud people's long quest for peace since their invention in the 1960's.
> 
> here goes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...


 Oh dear, Palestinian martyrs before the 5th century.  Another idiocy debunked.

*"Palestinian martyrs in the Latin West. The cases of Passio Theodosiae virginis ( BHL 8090) and of the Roman Passion monachi ( BHL 7298)*
*"The De martyribus Palestinae of Eusebius of Caesarea is an apologetic pamphlet telling the martyrs suffered by some Christians during the Diocletian's persecution 1 . There are two editors of different lengths, both authors. The shortest one is inserted by some manuscripts in the VIII or X books of Ecclesiastical History , while the long editorial is evidenced by some fragments handed down in hagiographic collections and the Syriac translation preserved in a manuscript dated 411..."*



*Martiri palestinesi nell’Occidente latino. I casi della Passio Theo...*


----------



## Sixties Fan

montelatici said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> a thread for us called "Palestinian commitment to peace."  !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear MJB -- this is an issue I have studied extensively, and below you will find a deep and in depth dissertation regarding all the ways in which those Arabs who call themselves "Palestinians" have engaged so as to foster peace. I have left no stone unturned, have not left out even the tiniest detail and will provide you ALL the rich historical evidence of these proud people's long quest for peace since their invention in the 1960's.
> 
> here goes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh dear, Palestinian martyrs before the 5th century.  Another idiocy debunked.
> 
> *"Palestinian martyrs in the Latin West. The cases of Passio Theodosiae virginis ( BHL 8090) and of the Roman Passion monachi ( BHL 7298)*
> *"The De martyribus Palestinae of Eusebius of Caesarea is an apologetic pamphlet telling the martyrs suffered by some Christians during the Diocletian's persecution 1 . There are two editors of different lengths, both authors. The shortest one is inserted by some manuscripts in the VIII or X books of Ecclesiastical History , while the long editorial is evidenced by some fragments handed down in hagiographic collections and the Syriac translation preserved in a manuscript dated 411..."*
> 
> 
> 
> *Martiri palestinesi nell’Occidente latino. I casi della Passio Theo...*
Click to expand...


It speaks about the *Region* of Palestine, after the Romans renamed *Judea* into Palestinae.

It is about the martyrdom of the followers of Christianity who were living  there at the time and being persecuted.

There were no Arabs there at the time, who then would be the ancestors to the modern Arab Palestinians.
And no group in the area called themselves Palestinae.

Try again.


----------



## montelatici

It speaks of the Palestinians who were persecuted before Christianity became the state religion of Rome. They called themselves Palestinians.

The Palestinians are "Arabs" because they speak Arabic and have adopted certain Arabian customs.  The ancestors of the Muslim and Christian Palestinians are the descendants of the native people of Palestine that converted to Christianity from Judaism, Samaritanism and Paganism among other religions.  Most of the these Christian ancestors converted to Islam during the centuries of Muslim rule.

The Palestinians are no more Arabian than Tunisians are Arabian,  But, like the Palestinians, the Tunisians are Arabs. Tunisians are about 4% Arabian.

Try again.


----------



## Sixties Fan

montelatici said:


> It speaks of the Palestinians who were persecuted before Christianity became the state religion of Rome. They called themselves Palestinians.
> 
> The Palestinians are "Arabs" because they speak Arabic and have adopted certain Arabian customs.  The ancestors of the Muslim and Christian Palestinians are the descendants of the native people of Palestine that converted to Christianity from Judaism, Samaritanism and Paganism among other religions.  Most of the these Christian ancestors converted to Islam during the centuries of Muslim rule.
> 
> The Palestinians are no more Arabian than Tunisians are Arabian,  But, like the Palestinians, the Tunisians are Arabs. Tunisians are about 4% Arabian.
> 
> Try again.



No it does not speak of the "Palestinians", as in the "Palestinians" today.

The Palestinians are no more Arabian, from Arabia then the Copts are from Egypt, or the Berbers are from Morocco ?

Try this logic above which is a far more truer one than the one you trying to pass on.

Try it because the Palestinians will tell anyone who will listen how they are Arabs from Arabia.With an Arabian culture, language and history.  Thousands of years of history before Mohammad created Islam and they spread all over the world after that.

Palestinians are no more Arabians.  Ha!

Jews are from Europe!  Ha !


----------



## montelatici

They have even done an analysis:

In 2007

"We’ll focus on Judea and Samaria, not counting Jerusalem.

 Pop. 956,000

Descendants of Israel: 580,000 or 61 per cent.

Brethren of Israel: 259,000 or 27 per cent of which 158,000 Edomites and 101,000 Moabites.

Arabs 43,000 or 4.5 per cent.

Roman Army 44,000.

Christians from afar 24,000.

Kurds 6,000. (They came in with Saladin’s army.)"

Most Palestinians Are Descendants Of Jews

The Arabian component is similar to Tunisia.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Sixties Fan said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> It speaks of the Palestinians who were persecuted before Christianity became the state religion of Rome. They called themselves Palestinians.
> 
> The Palestinians are "Arabs" because they speak Arabic and have adopted certain Arabian customs.  The ancestors of the Muslim and Christian Palestinians are the descendants of the native people of Palestine that converted to Christianity from Judaism, Samaritanism and Paganism among other religions.  Most of the these Christian ancestors converted to Islam during the centuries of Muslim rule.
> 
> The Palestinians are no more Arabian than Tunisians are Arabian,  But, like the Palestinians, the Tunisians are Arabs. Tunisians are about 4% Arabian.
> 
> Try again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it does not speak of the "Palestinians", as in the "Palestinians" today.
> 
> The Palestinians are no more Arabian, from Arabia then the Copts are from Egypt, or the Berbers are from Morocco ?
> 
> Try this logic above which is a far more truer one than the one you trying to pass on.
> 
> Try it because the Palestinians will tell anyone who will listen how they are Arabs from Arabia.With an Arabian culture, language and history.  Thousands of years of history before Mohammad created Islam and they spread all over the world after that.
> 
> Palestinians are no more Arabians.  Ha!
> 
> Jews are from Europe!  Ha !
Click to expand...



 THere is a very famous letter from King Abdullah written around the time of the formation of Israel called "How the Arabs see the Jews". It contained the usual long laundry list of grievances, but not ONCE did it mention any "Palestinian" people. 

 I am not that old, but even when I was a child in the 50s and 60s, all the emphasis was on Arab identity.  It strikes me as odd how some of these extremely stupid and dishonest children can claim otherwise to those who have actually lived long enough to know better.


----------



## montelatici

Dogmaphobe said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> It speaks of the Palestinians who were persecuted before Christianity became the state religion of Rome. They called themselves Palestinians.
> 
> The Palestinians are "Arabs" because they speak Arabic and have adopted certain Arabian customs.  The ancestors of the Muslim and Christian Palestinians are the descendants of the native people of Palestine that converted to Christianity from Judaism, Samaritanism and Paganism among other religions.  Most of the these Christian ancestors converted to Islam during the centuries of Muslim rule.
> 
> The Palestinians are no more Arabian than Tunisians are Arabian,  But, like the Palestinians, the Tunisians are Arabs. Tunisians are about 4% Arabian.
> 
> Try again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it does not speak of the "Palestinians", as in the "Palestinians" today.
> 
> The Palestinians are no more Arabian, from Arabia then the Copts are from Egypt, or the Berbers are from Morocco ?
> 
> Try this logic above which is a far more truer one than the one you trying to pass on.
> 
> Try it because the Palestinians will tell anyone who will listen how they are Arabs from Arabia.With an Arabian culture, language and history.  Thousands of years of history before Mohammad created Islam and they spread all over the world after that.
> 
> Palestinians are no more Arabians.  Ha!
> 
> Jews are from Europe!  Ha !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> THere is a very famous letter from King Abdullah written around the time of the formation of Israel called "How the Arabs see the Jews". It contained the usual long laundry list of grievances, but not ONCE did it mention any "Palestinian" people.
> 
> I am not that old, but even when I was a child in the 50s and 60s, all the emphasis was on Arab identity.  It strikes me as odd how some of these extremely stupid and dishonest children can claim otherwise to those who have actually lived long enough to know better.
Click to expand...


Of course there is an Arab identity as there is an Hispanic identity.  Mexicans are Hispanic, but are not very Spanish, DNA wise.  The ignorance of some is astounding. The Palestinian Delegation in London represented the People of Palestine in 1921-1922.  You're bullshit is so easy to debunk. LOL

*"PALESTINE.*

*CORRESPONDENCE *
*WITH THE*
*PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION*
*AND THE *
*ZIONIST ORGANISATION.*

*Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty.*
*JUNE, 1922.*
*LONDON:*




*PUBLISHED BY HIS MAJESTY'S STATIONERY OFFICE.*
*To be purchased directly from H.M. STATIONERY OFFICE, at the*
*following address:*
*Adastra House, Kingsway, London, W.C. 2; 120, George Street, Edinburgh:*
*York Street, Manchester; 1, St. Andre's Crescent, Cardiff;*
*15, Donegall Square West, Belfast; or through any Bookseller*


*1922.*
*[Reprinted 1929]*
*Price 1s. od.net.

PALESTINE.
CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB 
DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION.


No. 1.
The Palestine Arab Delegation to the Secretary of State for the Colonies.


HOTEL CECIL,
London, W.C.,
February 21st, 1922.





We would, therefore, submit the following observations:—

Whilst the position in Palestine is, as it stands to-day, with the British Government holding authority by an occupying force, and using that authority to impose upon the people against their wishes a great immigration of alien Jews, many of them of a Bolshevik revolutionary type, no constitution which would fall short of giving the People of Palestine full control of their own affairs could be acceptable.
If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, end the Zionist con-dominium, put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine — who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — Executive and Legislative powers, the terms of a constitution could be discussed in a different atmosphere. If to-day assented to any constitution which fell short of giving them full control of their own affairs they would be in the position of agreeing to an instrument of Government which might, and probably would, be used to smother their national life under a flood of alien immigration......"

UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
*


----------



## Sixties Fan

montelatici said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> It speaks of the Palestinians who were persecuted before Christianity became the state religion of Rome. They called themselves Palestinians.
> 
> The Palestinians are "Arabs" because they speak Arabic and have adopted certain Arabian customs.  The ancestors of the Muslim and Christian Palestinians are the descendants of the native people of Palestine that converted to Christianity from Judaism, Samaritanism and Paganism among other religions.  Most of the these Christian ancestors converted to Islam during the centuries of Muslim rule.
> 
> The Palestinians are no more Arabian than Tunisians are Arabian,  But, like the Palestinians, the Tunisians are Arabs. Tunisians are about 4% Arabian.
> 
> Try again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it does not speak of the "Palestinians", as in the "Palestinians" today.
> 
> The Palestinians are no more Arabian, from Arabia then the Copts are from Egypt, or the Berbers are from Morocco ?
> 
> Try this logic above which is a far more truer one than the one you trying to pass on.
> 
> Try it because the Palestinians will tell anyone who will listen how they are Arabs from Arabia.With an Arabian culture, language and history.  Thousands of years of history before Mohammad created Islam and they spread all over the world after that.
> 
> Palestinians are no more Arabians.  Ha!
> 
> Jews are from Europe!  Ha !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> THere is a very famous letter from King Abdullah written around the time of the formation of Israel called "How the Arabs see the Jews". It contained the usual long laundry list of grievances, but not ONCE did it mention any "Palestinian" people.
> 
> I am not that old, but even when I was a child in the 50s and 60s, all the emphasis was on Arab identity.  It strikes me as odd how some of these extremely stupid and dishonest children can claim otherwise to those who have actually lived long enough to know better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course there is an Arab identity as there is an Hispanic identity.  Mexicans are Hispanic, but are not very Spanish, DNA wise.  The ignorance of some is astounding. The Palestinian Delegation in London represented the People of Palestine in 1921-1922.  You're bullshit is so easy to debunk. LOL
> 
> *"PALESTINE.*
> 
> *CORRESPONDENCE
> WITH THE
> PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION
> AND THE
> ZIONIST ORGANISATION.*
> 
> *Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty.
> JUNE, 1922.
> LONDON:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PUBLISHED BY HIS MAJESTY'S STATIONERY OFFICE.
> To be purchased directly from H.M. STATIONERY OFFICE, at the
> following address:
> Adastra House, Kingsway, London, W.C. 2; 120, George Street, Edinburgh:
> York Street, Manchester; 1, St. Andre's Crescent, Cardiff;
> 15, Donegall Square West, Belfast; or through any Bookseller*
> 
> 
> *1922.
> [Reprinted 1929]
> Price 1s. od.net.
> 
> PALESTINE.
> CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB
> DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION.
> 
> 
> No. 1.
> The Palestine Arab Delegation to the Secretary of State for the Colonies.
> 
> 
> HOTEL CECIL,
> London, W.C.,
> February 21st, 1922.
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> We would, therefore, submit the following observations:—
> *
> *Whilst the position in Palestine is, as it stands to-day, with the British Government holding authority by an occupying force, and using that authority to impose upon the people against their wishes a great immigration of alien Jews, many of them of a Bolshevik revolutionary type, no constitution which would fall short of giving the People of Palestine full control of their own affairs could be acceptable.
> If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, end the Zionist con-dominium, put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine — who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — Executive and Legislative powers, the terms of a constitution could be discussed in a different atmosphere. If to-day assented to any constitution which fell short of giving them full control of their own affairs they would be in the position of agreeing to an instrument of Government which might, and probably would, be used to smother their national life under a flood of alien immigration......"
> 
> UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)*
Click to expand...


We have said this before:

Find something from the Arabs where they call themselves Palestinians, a Palestinian People, with a Palestinian history, with a Palestinian Heritage, with Palestinian education, etc.

Post Palestine Mandate * does not count.*


----------



## rylah

_


montelatici said:



			They have even done an analysis:

In 2007

"We’ll focus on Judea and Samaria, not counting Jerusalem.

 Pop. 956,000

Descendants of Israel: 580,000 or 61 per cent.

Brethren of Israel: 259,000 or 27 per cent of which 158,000 Edomites and 101,000 Moabites.

Arabs 43,000 or 4.5 per cent.

Roman Army 44,000.

Christians from afar 24,000.

Kurds 6,000. (They came in with Saladin’s army.)"
		
Click to expand...

_


montelatici said:


> _Most Palestinians Are Descendants Of Jews_
> _
> The Arabian component is similar to Tunisia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


_
_
From YOUR link: Most Palestinians Are Descendants Of Jews
_
*"It’s interesting how Misinai comes up with 90 per cent. *There are two categories, which he calls “Descendants of Israel” and “Brethren of Israel.” These “brethern” are descendants of Edomites and Moabites. But they had converted to Judaism way back and remained in the fold, so of course they count.

He’s got the makeup of the population broken down for every geographical sector.* How he got these figures and how reliable they are I don’t know. *We’ll focus on Judea and Samaria, not counting Jerusalem."
_


*We know from the same SCIENTIFIC study that You used the graph from, that Egypt is 17% Arabian and Lebanon whole 44%. 
*But You'll always omitt that.*


----------



## montelatici

The Palestinian Martyrs from around 400 AD was before the Mandate.  The Palestinain Arabic manual was before the Mandate.







Fulcher of Chartres called the native people Palestinians during the rule of the Latin Kingdom Of Jerusalem about 1,000 AD.

"For we who were Occidentals have now become Orientals. He who was a Roman or a Frank has in this land been made into a Galilean or a Palestinian"


http://www.lancaster.ac.uk/normaned...ranks and Natives in the Crusader States'.pdf

You lose again.


----------



## montelatici

*"Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin"*

*Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted*


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> The Palestinian Martyrs from around 400 AD was before the Mandate.  The Palestinain Arabic manual was before the Mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fulcher of Chartres called the native people Palestinians during the rule of the Latin Kingdom Of Jerusalem about 1,000 AD.
> 
> "For we who were Occidentals have now become Orientals. He who was a Roman or a Frank has in this land been made into a Galilean or a Palestinian"
> 
> 
> http://www.lancaster.ac.uk/normanedge/All other stuff/Andrew Jotischky, 'Franks and Natives in the Crusader States'.pdf
> 
> You lose again.



Declaring victory too early. - You have just proven that Palestinians are franks, crusader invaders.
And what is this another book on Arabic? Very original


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> *"Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin"*
> 
> *Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted*



Why do You keep posting the same links when they contradict You?

Again from YOUR link:

Palestine inhabited by a mixed population

_From the time the Arabians, along with their non-Arabian recruits, entered Palestine and Syria, they found and themselves added to what was "ethnologically a chaos of all the possible human combinations to which, when Palestine became a land of pilgrimage, a new admixture was added."1 *Among the peoples who have been counted as "indigenous Palestinian Arabs" are Balkans, Greeks, Syrians, Latins, Egyptians, Turks, Armenians, Italians, Persians, Kurds, Germans, Afghans, Circassians, Bosnians, Sudanese, Samaritans, Algerians, Motawila, and Tartars.*

John of Wurzburg lists for the middle era of the kingdom, Latins, Germans, Hungarians, Scots, Navarese, Bretons, English, Franks, Ruthenians, Bohemians, Greeks, Bulgarians, Georgians, Armenians, Syrians, Persian Nestorians, Indians,Egyptians, Copts, Maronites and natives from the Nile Delta. The list might be much extended, for it was the period of the great self-willed city-states in Europe, and Amalfi, Pisans, Genoese, Venetians, and Marseillais, who had quarters in all the bigger cities, owned villages, and had trading rights, would, in all probability, have submitted to any of the above designations, only under pressure. Besides all these, Norsemen, Danes, Frisians, Tartars, Jews, Arabs, Russians, Nubians, and Samaritans, can be safely added to the greatest human agglomeration drawn together in one small area of the globe."2

*Greeks fled the Muslim rule in Greece, and landed in Palestine. By the mid-seventeenth century, the Greeks lived everywhere in the Holy Land--constituting about twenty percent of the population-and their authority dominated the villages.3 *
Between 1750 and 1766 Jaffa had been rebuilt, and had some five hundred houses. Turks, Arabs, Greeks and Armenians and a solitary Latin monk lived there, to attend to the wants of the thousands of pilgrims who had to be temporarily housed in the port before proceeding to Jerusalem.4...._
.
*Montelatici Thanks for adding the Crusaders into the list of _"Palestinian"_ identities.


----------



## montelatici

"Palestinians are genetically as close or closer to any modern Jewish population than are those Jewish populations to each other. In other words, genetic data is totally consistent with the idea that Palestinians are the direct descendants of ancient Jews who never left their ancestral land and who later converted to Christianity and to Islam....."

Genome-Wide Diversity in the Levant Reveals Recent Structuring by Culture






Genome-Wide Diversity in the Levant Reveals Recent Structuring by Culture

New studies show that Jews and Palestinians are both descendants of the ancient Jewish people


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin"*
> 
> *Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do You keep posting the same links when they contradict You?
> 
> Again from YOUR link:
> 
> Palestine inhabited by a mixed population
> 
> _From the time the Arabians, along with their non-Arabian recruits, entered Palestine and Syria, they found and themselves added to what was "ethnologically a chaos of all the possible human combinations to which, when Palestine became a land of pilgrimage, a new admixture was added."1 *Among the peoples who have been counted as "indigenous Palestinian Arabs" are Balkans, Greeks, Syrians, Latins, Egyptians, Turks, Armenians, Italians, Persians, Kurds, Germans, Afghans, Circassians, Bosnians, Sudanese, Samaritans, Algerians, Motawila, and Tartars.*
> 
> John of Wurzburg lists for the middle era of the kingdom, Latins, Germans, Hungarians, Scots, Navarese, Bretons, English, Franks, Ruthenians, Bohemians, Greeks, Bulgarians, Georgians, Armenians, Syrians, Persian Nestorians, Indians,Egyptians, Copts, Maronites and natives from the Nile Delta. The list might be much extended, for it was the period of the great self-willed city-states in Europe, and Amalfi, Pisans, Genoese, Venetians, and Marseillais, who had quarters in all the bigger cities, owned villages, and had trading rights, would, in all probability, have submitted to any of the above designations, only under pressure. Besides all these, Norsemen, Danes, Frisians, Tartars, Jews, Arabs, Russians, Nubians, and Samaritans, can be safely added to the greatest human agglomeration drawn together in one small area of the globe."2
> 
> *Greeks fled the Muslim rule in Greece, and landed in Palestine. By the mid-seventeenth century, the Greeks lived everywhere in the Holy Land--constituting about twenty percent of the population-and their authority dominated the villages.3 *
> Between 1750 and 1766 Jaffa had been rebuilt, and had some five hundred houses. Turks, Arabs, Greeks and Armenians and a solitary Latin monk lived there, to attend to the wants of the thousands of pilgrims who had to be temporarily housed in the port before proceeding to Jerusalem.4...._
> .
> *Montelatici Thanks for adding the Crusaders into the list of _"Palestinian"_ identities.
Click to expand...


Thanks for pointing out that 24,000 or about 2% of the Palestinian's ancestors, of the million or so analyzed, come from that group.  Now if only Ashkenazi Jews weren't descended from Europeans. LOL

"The majority of Ashkenazi Jews are descended from prehistoric European women,..."

http://www.the-scientist.com/?artic...21/title/Genetic-Roots-of-the-Ashkenazi-Jews/


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> "Palestinians are genetically as close or closer to any modern Jewish population than are those Jewish populations to each other. In other words, genetic data is totally consistent with the idea that Palestinians are the direct descendants of ancient Jews who never left their ancestral land and who later converted to Christianity and to Islam....."
> 
> Genome-Wide Diversity in the Levant Reveals Recent Structuring by Culture
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Genome-Wide Diversity in the Levant Reveals Recent Structuring by Culture
> 
> New studies show that Jews and Palestinians are both descendants of the ancient Jewish people




The same study You claimed to be Hasbara?
I'm happy You;re coming to senses, but unfortunately the study AGAIN CONTRADICTS You.

The graph is actually showing most Jews cluster with the Druze of Lebanon, while Palestinian Arabs cluster with Bedouins, Saudis and Syrians:


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Palestinians are genetically as close or closer to any modern Jewish population than are those Jewish populations to each other. In other words, genetic data is totally consistent with the idea that Palestinians are the direct descendants of ancient Jews who never left their ancestral land and who later converted to Christianity and to Islam....."
> 
> Genome-Wide Diversity in the Levant Reveals Recent Structuring by Culture
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Genome-Wide Diversity in the Levant Reveals Recent Structuring by Culture
> 
> New studies show that Jews and Palestinians are both descendants of the ancient Jewish people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The same study You claimed to be Hasbara?
> I'm happy You;re coming to senses, but unfortunately the study AGAIN CONTRADICTS You.
> 
> The graph is actually showing most Jews cluster with the Druze of Lebanon, while Palestinian Arabs cluster with Bedouins, Saudis and Syrians:
Click to expand...

"Palestinians are genetically as close or closer to any modern Jewish population than are those Jewish populations to each other. In other words, genetic data is totally consistent with the idea that Palestinians are the direct descendants of ancient Jews who never left their ancestral land and who later converted to Christianity and to Islam....."


No, it contradicts you as the author states. You lose again. LOL

It's difficult to win when all you have is propaganda Rylah, give it up. The facts are the facts.

"


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin"*
> 
> *Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do You keep posting the same links when they contradict You?
> 
> Again from YOUR link:
> 
> Palestine inhabited by a mixed population
> 
> _From the time the Arabians, along with their non-Arabian recruits, entered Palestine and Syria, they found and themselves added to what was "ethnologically a chaos of all the possible human combinations to which, when Palestine became a land of pilgrimage, a new admixture was added."1 *Among the peoples who have been counted as "indigenous Palestinian Arabs" are Balkans, Greeks, Syrians, Latins, Egyptians, Turks, Armenians, Italians, Persians, Kurds, Germans, Afghans, Circassians, Bosnians, Sudanese, Samaritans, Algerians, Motawila, and Tartars.*
> 
> John of Wurzburg lists for the middle era of the kingdom, Latins, Germans, Hungarians, Scots, Navarese, Bretons, English, Franks, Ruthenians, Bohemians, Greeks, Bulgarians, Georgians, Armenians, Syrians, Persian Nestorians, Indians,Egyptians, Copts, Maronites and natives from the Nile Delta. The list might be much extended, for it was the period of the great self-willed city-states in Europe, and Amalfi, Pisans, Genoese, Venetians, and Marseillais, who had quarters in all the bigger cities, owned villages, and had trading rights, would, in all probability, have submitted to any of the above designations, only under pressure. Besides all these, Norsemen, Danes, Frisians, Tartars, Jews, Arabs, Russians, Nubians, and Samaritans, can be safely added to the greatest human agglomeration drawn together in one small area of the globe."2
> 
> *Greeks fled the Muslim rule in Greece, and landed in Palestine. By the mid-seventeenth century, the Greeks lived everywhere in the Holy Land--constituting about twenty percent of the population-and their authority dominated the villages.3 *
> Between 1750 and 1766 Jaffa had been rebuilt, and had some five hundred houses. Turks, Arabs, Greeks and Armenians and a solitary Latin monk lived there, to attend to the wants of the thousands of pilgrims who had to be temporarily housed in the port before proceeding to Jerusalem.4...._
> .
> *Montelatici Thanks for adding the Crusaders into the list of _"Palestinian"_ identities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for pointing out that 24,000 or about 2% of the Palestinian's ancestors, of the million or so analyzed, come from that group.  Now if only Ashkenazi Jews weren't descended from Europeans. LOL
> 
> "The majority of Ashkenazi Jews are descended from prehistoric European women,..."
> 
> http://www.the-scientist.com/?artic...21/title/Genetic-Roots-of-the-Ashkenazi-Jews/
Click to expand...



Why didn't You link to the original study - afraid we see the original headline?

But let's play Your game, who are the Bushnaks?

*Bushnak* (Arabic: بشناق‎‎, meaning "Bosnian" or "Bosniak", also transliterated *Bushnaq*, *Boshnak* and *Bouchnak*) is a surname common among Palestinians who are of Bosnian origin.[1][2][3] Those sharing this surname are the descendants of Bosnian Muslims apprehensive of living under Christian rule after the Austro-Hungarian occupation of Bosnia and Herzegovinain 1878, who emigrated to Palestine within the Ottoman empire.

Bushnak - Wikipedia


----------



## montelatici




----------



## Sixties Fan

montelatici said:


>



If their ancestors came from Asia Minor, aka, the Land of Israel.....
as proven via DNA.....

*NO


*


----------



## rylah

What do we call people who judge others by looks, skin color and blood purity?


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> What do we call people who judge others by looks, skin color and blood purity?



Anthropologists.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Surprising Science of Race and Racism | HuffPost


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## montelatici

There are Israeli Jews that are not brainwashed like you two.

"*Dancing With Palestinians*
*I grew up in Israel and served as an IDF officer. It took me years to realize that we had been brought up on lies, myths and propaganda and that Palestinians are no different from native Americans, blacks in S. Africa and other indigenous populations who were abused and dispossessed by European colonialism. Demolishing the Zionist myths and propaganda is the first step towards de-constructing the exclusionary colonial state and achieving historic justice and lasting peace.  *

*Dancing With Palestinians*


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## Sixties Fan

montelatici said:


> There are Israeli Jews that are not brainwashed like you two.
> 
> "*Dancing With Palestinians*
> *I grew up in Israel and served as an IDF officer. It took me years to realize that we had been brought up on lies, myths and propaganda and that Palestinians are no different from native Americans, blacks in S. Africa and other indigenous populations who were abused and dispossessed by European colonialism. Demolishing the Zionist myths and propaganda is the first step towards de-constructing the exclusionary colonial state and achieving historic justice and lasting peace.  *
> 
> *Dancing With Palestinians*



Wow, if that is not one of the most amazingly, and blatantly anti Jewish rights to their sovereign land sites I have ever seen.

Each article is a slander.

Not one of them gives the name of who wrote each article.
Pen names, or no names.
All blogs from anonymous beings.

Congratulate yourself Monte.


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## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do we call people who judge others by looks, skin color and blood purity?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anthropologists.
Click to expand...


I don't think Anthropologists use blood purity, race and skin color to deny people rights.
*I think it's called Racism.*


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## rylah

montelatici said:


>



I don't get it, do only people who look like Bedouins deserve rights in the ME?


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## Shusha

montelatici said:


> *"Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin"*
> 
> *Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted*




Why the hell is forced conversion an argument for supremacy of the colonizer rather than a clear argument in support of the oppressed?  I don't get it.


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## montelatici

Most Palestinians converted for convenience. Adopting the religion of the ruler is convenient.

Sent from my SM-G935F using USMessageBoard.com mobile app


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## rylah

Deir al 'Asal al Fauqa Village Profile

History Deir al ‘Asal al Fauqa is an ancient village , the name of the village is derived from the word “Honey”, as historically, village residents used to keep bees and produce honey. Village officials remark that most of the families in the village have *roots to the Arabian Peninsula from the Shamar tribe.* 
*http://vprofile.arij.org/hebron/pdfs/Deir al 'Asal al Fauqa_pr_en.pdf*
*




*

*Shammar tribe*

The tribe of Shammar (Arabic: شمّر _Šammar_) is an Arab Qahtanite tribe, descended from the ancient tribe of Tayy. It is one of the largest and most influential Arab tribes, with an estimated around 12 million members in the world: 3 million in Iraq, over 6.5 million in Saudi Arabia (concentrated in Ha'il), a Syrian population thought to exceed 0.5 million, and an unknown number in Jordan, Kuwait, and Qatar.[1] The current seat of the tribe's leadership is in the city of Mosul in Northern Iraq. In its "golden age", around 1850, the tribe ruled much of central and northern Arabia from Riyadh to the frontiers of Syria and the vast area known as Al Jazira in Northern Iraq....
In the 17th century, a large section of the Shammar left Jabal Shammar under the leadership of the Al Jarba and settled in Iraq, reaching as far as the northern city of Mosul, their current stronghold.


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## montelatici

*Iqrit (Arabic: إقرت‎‎ or إقرث, Iqrith), was a Palestinian Christian village, located 25 kilometres (16 miles) northeast of Acre. Originally allotted to form part of an Arab state under the 1947 UN Partition Plan, it was seized and forcefully depopulated by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, and their territory later became part of the new State of Israel.[6] All of its Christian inhabitants were forced to flee to Lebanon or the Israeli village of Rameh, after they were expelled by Jewish forces in 1948, and, despite the promise that they would be returned in two weeks' time, the villagers were never allowed to return. In 1951, in response to a plea from the Iqrit villagers, the Israeli Supreme Court ruled that the former residents of Iqrit be allowed to return to their homes. However, before that happened, the IDF, despite awareness of the Supreme Court decision, destroyed the previously Christian village on Christmas Day, 1951. Descendants to this day maintain an outpost in the village church, and bury their dead in its cemetery. All attempts to cultivate its lands are uprooted by the Israeli Lands Administration*.[7]


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## MJB12741

Dogmaphobe said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> a thread for us called "Palestinian commitment to peace."  !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear MJB -- this is an issue I have studied extensively, and below you will find a deep and in depth dissertation regarding all the ways in which those Arabs who call themselves "Palestinians" have engaged so as to foster peace. I have left no stone unturned, have not left out even the tiniest detail and will provide you ALL the rich historical evidence of these proud people's long quest for peace since their invention in the 1960's.
> 
> here goes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...


LOL!  Dear Dogmaphobe.  They need to write a book titled Palestinian Contributions To Peace, Mankind & Civilization to educate those Zionists to the truth about Palestinians.


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## P F Tinmore

montelatici said:


> *Iqrit (Arabic: إقرت‎‎ or إقرث, Iqrith), was a Palestinian Christian village, located 25 kilometres (16 miles) northeast of Acre. Originally allotted to form part of an Arab state under the 1947 UN Partition Plan, it was seized and forcefully depopulated by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, and their territory later became part of the new State of Israel.[6] All of its Christian inhabitants were forced to flee to Lebanon or the Israeli village of Rameh, after they were expelled by Jewish forces in 1948, and, despite the promise that they would be returned in two weeks' time, the villagers were never allowed to return. In 1951, in response to a plea from the Iqrit villagers, the Israeli Supreme Court ruled that the former residents of Iqrit be allowed to return to their homes. However, before that happened, the IDF, despite awareness of the Supreme Court decision, destroyed the previously Christian village on Christmas Day, 1951. Descendants to this day maintain an outpost in the village church, and bury their dead in its cemetery. All attempts to cultivate its lands are uprooted by the Israeli Lands Administration*.[7]


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## MJB12741

P F Tinmore said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Iqrit (Arabic: إقرت‎‎ or إقرث, Iqrith), was a Palestinian Christian village, located 25 kilometres (16 miles) northeast of Acre. Originally allotted to form part of an Arab state under the 1947 UN Partition Plan, it was seized and forcefully depopulated by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, and their territory later became part of the new State of Israel.[6] All of its Christian inhabitants were forced to flee to Lebanon or the Israeli village of Rameh, after they were expelled by Jewish forces in 1948, and, despite the promise that they would be returned in two weeks' time, the villagers were never allowed to return. In 1951, in response to a plea from the Iqrit villagers, the Israeli Supreme Court ruled that the former residents of Iqrit be allowed to return to their homes. However, before that happened, the IDF, despite awareness of the Supreme Court decision, destroyed the previously Christian village on Christmas Day, 1951. Descendants to this day maintain an outpost in the village church, and bury their dead in its cemetery. All attempts to cultivate its lands are uprooted by the Israeli Lands Administration*.[7]
Click to expand...


Wasn't it wonderful how the Lebanese Christians cheered Israel for helping them from the Palestinians during Sabra & Shatila?


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## American_Jihad

*HEZBOLLAH THREATENS KEY ISRAELI NUCLEAR RESEARCH FACILITY*
*Genocidal enemies ratchet up tensions just across the Jewish State's border.*
August 23, 2017

Ari Lieberman





On August 13, Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah threatened to bomb Israel’s Dimona nuclear research facility in the event of war between Israel and Hezbollah. Nasrallah made the threat via video linkup from an undisclosed hidden location while addressing a crowd of Shia supporters in the southern Lebanese village of Khiam. For all of his bravado, Nasrallah still finds it necessary to hide, and scurry from location to location for fear of being targeted by Israel.

This isn’t the first time that the terrorist leader issued such a threat. In February, he issuedsimilar sinister pronouncements during a speech commemorating the 9th anniversary of the liquidation of Imad Mughniyeh, Hezbollah’s chief special operations commander, who was eliminated in 2008 in a joint Mossad-CIA operation.

Nasrallah frequently issues threats to bomb civilian targets and other critical infrastructure in Israel. These threats are generally for internal public consumption but they are also directed at Israel as a form of psychological warfare. Nasrallah’s threats to target an ammonia storage plant in Haifa, Israel’s third largest city, likely factored into the decision by Israeli authorities to relocate the facility to a safer location further south, away from densely populated areas. 

...

Hezbollah Threatens Key Israeli Nuclear Research Facility


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## montelatici

Reducing the number of nuclear weapons capable states is a goal of the NPT.


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## American_Jihad

montelatici said:


> Reducing the number of nuclear weapons capable states is a goal of the NPT.


Another do nothing organization, gee what happened with n korea, iran,etc or is the west the only ones to get rid of nukes, not on my watch...


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## montelatici

Iran has no nukes and adheres to the NPT.  North Korea left the NPT and is still, rightly. is being sanctioned.  What's your point?


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## American_Jihad

montelatici said:


> Iran has no nukes and adheres to the NPT.  North Korea left the NPT and is still, rightly. is being sanctioned.  What's your point?


So you believe iran...


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## montelatici

American_Jihad said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Iran has no nukes and adheres to the NPT.  North Korea left the NPT and is still, rightly. is being sanctioned.  What's your point?
> 
> 
> 
> So you believe iran...
Click to expand...


U.S., British, German, Russian and every other intelligence service confirm the fact that Iran does not have nuclear weapons (they never had) or a nuclear weapons program, through periodic inspections.  You are one of those tinhat nutters.


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## MJB12741

montelatici said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Iran has no nukes and adheres to the NPT.  North Korea left the NPT and is still, rightly. is being sanctioned.  What's your point?
> 
> 
> 
> So you believe iran...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> U.S., British, German, Russian and every other intelligence service confirm the fact that Iran does not have nuclear weapons (they never had) or a nuclear weapons program, through periodic inspections.  You are one of those tinhat nutters.
Click to expand...


LMAO!  Good one Monte.  "Iran does not have nuclear weapons (they never had) or a nuclear weapons program, through periodic inspections."


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## montelatici

Funny, another tinhat nutter.


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## MJB12741

montelatici said:


> Funny, another tinhat nutter.



So tell us, does North Korea also have no nukes or a program to develop them?


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## montelatici

MJB12741 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, another tinhat nutter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So tell us, does North Korea also have no nukes or a program to develop them?
Click to expand...


Of course North Korea has nukes and a nuclear weapons program, WTF is the matter with you.  They are no longer in the NPT.


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## Sixties Fan

A press preview on Saturday of “Jerusalem Lives” displayed works ranging from the abstract to the overtly political.

In one room, a four-wall photographic panorama surrounds visitors with images of the ring of Israeli settlements around Jerusalem.

In the garden, a green staircase climbs skywards from inside a mesh cage, seemingly referencing the confinement of the Palestinians by Israel’s occupation.

But the symbolism of the staircase, coming to a dead end in mid-air, is open to interpretation.




AFP
Curator Reem Fadda said the collection was meant to spark discussion of “cultural resistance” to the policies of Israel, which occupied east Jerusalem in 1967 and later annexed it in a move never recognised by the international community.

The West Bank and Gaza Strip were occupied in the same year but not annexed, and their occupants need special—and hard-to-get—Israeli permits to visit Jerusalem.

—

“The aim of this exhibition was really to provide a way for us to think in a creative way how can we resist this hegemony of Israeli occupation that is facing the city of Jerusalem through a cultural stance,” she told AFP in English.

Another goal of the show, she said, was to “present Jerusalem to the people of Palestine that can’t go to Jerusalem”.

In other words, they could not even open with an exhibit representing their identity. Everything is about opposing Israel’s history.

(full article online)

Palestinian Museum’s First Exhibit Says It All About Palestinian Identity


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## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> A press preview on Saturday of “Jerusalem Lives” displayed works ranging from the abstract to the overtly political.
> 
> In one room, a four-wall photographic panorama surrounds visitors with images of the ring of Israeli settlements around Jerusalem.
> 
> In the garden, a green staircase climbs skywards from inside a mesh cage, seemingly referencing the confinement of the Palestinians by Israel’s occupation.
> 
> But the symbolism of the staircase, coming to a dead end in mid-air, is open to interpretation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AFP
> Curator Reem Fadda said the collection was meant to spark discussion of “cultural resistance” to the policies of Israel, which occupied east Jerusalem in 1967 and later annexed it in a move never recognised by the international community.
> 
> The West Bank and Gaza Strip were occupied in the same year but not annexed, and their occupants need special—and hard-to-get—Israeli permits to visit Jerusalem.
> 
> —
> 
> “The aim of this exhibition was really to provide a way for us to think in a creative way how can we resist this hegemony of Israeli occupation that is facing the city of Jerusalem through a cultural stance,” she told AFP in English.
> 
> Another goal of the show, she said, was to “present Jerusalem to the people of Palestine that can’t go to Jerusalem”.
> 
> In other words, they could not even open with an exhibit representing their identity. Everything is about opposing Israel’s history.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian Museum’s First Exhibit Says It All About Palestinian Identity





Sixties Fan said:


> In the garden, a green staircase climbs skywards from inside a mesh cage, seemingly referencing the confinement of the Palestinians by Israel’s occupation.
> 
> But the symbolism of the staircase, coming to a dead end in mid-air, is open to interpretation.


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## Hollie




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## American_Jihad

*(VIDEO) THE PALESTINIAN-ISRAELI CONFLICT: ALL ABOUT THE FACTS*
*A biting musical parody featuring the Latma comedy team.*
August 31, 2017

Frontpagemag.com





The following video was produced by the Legal Grounds Campaign, which works to secure Israel’s legal rights to the land in eastern Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria, and to educate people about these issues. The video seeks to harness the power of satire to counteract the widely promulgated Palestinian narrative regarding the history of the region, including disputed territories. 

...VIDEO

(Video) The Palestinian-Israeli Conflict: All About The Facts


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## JoelT1

Joseph Farah: Myths of palestine & palestinians Myths of the Middle East



American_Jihad said:


> The " palestinians" are arab outcast from surrounding arab countries...
> 
> *The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments *
> * When lies are the foundation of policies. *
> October 16, 2015
> Bruce Thornton
> 
> Many of our policy debates and conflicts both domestic and foreign call on history to validate their positions. At home, crimes from the past like slavery and legal segregation are used to justify present policies ranging from racial set asides to housing regulations long after those institutions have been dismantled. Abroad, our jihadist enemies continually evoke the Crusades, “colonialism,” and “imperialism” as justifications for their violence. Yet the “history” used in such fashion is usually one-sided, simplistic, or downright false. Nor is the reason hard to find: as we read in _1984_, “Who controls the past . . . controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.” Bad history is a powerful instrument for gaining political power.
> 
> Nowhere is the abuse of history more rampant than in the Middle East. Since World War II all the problems whose origins lie in dysfunctional tribal and religious beliefs and behaviors have been laid at the feet of “colonialism” and “imperialism.” Western leftists––besotted both by a _marxiste_ hatred of liberal democracy, and by juvenile noble-savage Third-Worldism–– have legitimized this specious pretext, which now for many has become historical fact.
> 
> ...
> 
> Everything about this narrative is false. There is no such thing as a “Palestinian” people, an idea that arose only after the Six Day War of 1967. The bulk of the people mistakenly called “Palestinians” are ethnically, religiously, and linguistically indistinguishable from Arab Muslims in Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria. Numerous comments by Arab leaders before 1967 emphasized this fact. For example, Zouhair Muhsin, a member of the Executive Council of the PLO, said, “There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity… Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.”
> 
> ...
> 
> Finally, the charge of an “illegal occupation” of the “occupied West Bank” is a canard. Those territories, comprising the heartland of the ancient Jewish nations of Judea and Samaria, are _disputed_, their final disposition awaiting a peace treaty. There are no “borders” thought to define the mythical Palestinian nation. Those lines on the map are armistice lines, created after Israel defeated the armies of Syria, Jordan, and Egypt in 1967. By all rights as the victor, Israel could have incorporated the so-called West Bank into the state of Israel, on the same eternal wages of war that led to the American Southwest being incorporated into the U.S. after the 1846-48 war with Mexico, or of Prussian Germany into Poland after World War II. Indeed, since the territory in question was for thousands of years the homeland of the Jewish people, Israel would have had a _better_ case for restoring Judea and Samaria to Israel. Instead, in the Orwellian history created by Muslims and accepted by the West, the indigenous peoples are considered the “occupiers” of their own lands, and conquerors, invaders, and colonizers considered the disenfranchised victims.
> 
> The recent suicide-murders of random Israelis by Palestinians have been analyzed in terms that perpetuate this false history. Our intellectually challenged Secretary of State, John Kerry, referred to this false history when he said at Harvard, “There’s been a massive increase in settlement over the course of the last years and there’s an increase in the violence because there’s this frustration that’s growing,” he said. “Settlements” is nothing more than a mindless mantra, like “cycle of violence” or “checkpoints” or the “sanctity of the al-Aqsa mosque,” for the pusillanimous West, while for Muslims they are the pretexts for practicing their traditional Jew-hatred and sacralized violence.
> 
> The history this reporting on the Temple Mount ignores is the great forbearance, and to be sure tactical pragmatism, of the Israelis in leaving the Temple Mount under the management of the Arabs; while a mosque created as a triumphalist boast over conquered Christians and Jews, in a city never mentioned in the Koran, is respected more by the West than its own empty cathedrals. Meanwhile the travails of Muslim immigrants are hyped and agonized over more than the crucifixions, torture, rape, and murder of Christians in the greatest mass persecution of Christians in history.
> 
> These are the wages of historical ignorance and the acceptance of a history made up by an adversary who can “thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened,” as Orwell says of the Party in _1984_. Our foreign policy has often been predicated on these lies, and the outcome has been predictable when lies are the foundation of policies––the abject failure we are witnessing in the region today.
> 
> 
> The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments


----------

