# Sarkozy says burqas are 'not welcome' in France



## PoliticalChic

> PARIS (AP) - President Nicolas Sarkozy lashed out Monday at the practice of wearing the Muslim burqa, insisting the full-body religious gown is a sign of the "debasement" of women and that it won't be welcome in France.
> The French leader expressed support for a recent call by dozens of legislators to create a parliamentary commission to study a small but growing trend of wearing the full-body garment in France.
> 
> 
> In the first presidential address in 136 years to a joint session of France's two houses of parliament, Sarkozy laid out his support for a ban even before the panel has been approvedbraving critics who fear the issue is a marginal one and could stigmatize Muslims in France.
> 
> "In our country, we cannot accept that women be prisoners behind a screen, cut off from all social life, deprived of all identity," Sarkozy said to extended applause in a speech at the Chateau of Versailles southwest of Paris.
> 
> "The burqa is not a religious sign, it's a sign of subservience, a sign of debasementI want to say it solemnly," he said. "It will not be welcome on the territory of the French Republic."
> 
> In France, the terms "burqa" and "niqab" often are used interchangeably. The former refers to a full-body covering worn largely in Afghanistan with only a mesh screen over the eyes, whereas the latter is a full-body veil, often in black, with slits for the eyes.
> 
> Later Monday, Sarkozy was expected to host a state dinner with Sheik Hamad Bin Jassem Al Thani of Qatar. Many women in the Persian Gulf state wear Islamic head coverings in publicwhether while shopping or driving cars.
> 
> France enacted a law in 2004 banning the Islamic headscarf and other conspicuous religious symbols from public schools, sparking fierce debate at home and abroad. France has Western Europe's largest Muslim population, an estimated 5 million people.
> 
> A government spokesman said Friday that it would seek to set up a parliamentary commission that could propose legislation aimed at barring Muslim women from wearing the head-to-toe gowns outside the home.


Sarkozy says burqas are 'not welcome' in France


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## jan

This thread is a duplicate.


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## concept

"youts" on the rampage torching cars in 5..4..3..


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## PoliticalChic

concept said:


> "youts" on the rampage torching cars in 5..4..3..



Hey, didn't you get the memo that Islam is a religion of peace?


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## rhodescholar

PoliticalChic said:


> concept said:
> 
> 
> 
> "youts" on the rampage torching cars in 5..4..3..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, didn't you get the memo that Islam is a religion of peace?
Click to expand...


Check out my sig quoting the resident monkey for your answer.

This is wonderful news, the less hospitable the West makes it for muslims the fewer will want to move to the West, and perhaps many will return to their original shitholes.  Muslim immigration worsens a society, not improves it.


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## Xenophon

This guy has always been a hardliner vs Muslims in France, not a shock he would say this.


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## William Joyce

Remember seeing a bitch in the full Muslim Monty at the Wal-Mart in Fairfax.  I swear to God I almost popped a neck vein.  I just wanted to knock her down and start screaming.  "Take that stupid shit off!"

It's like their walking around with their middle fingers extended to everyone's face.


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## editec

William Joyce said:


> Remember seeing a bitch in the full Muslim Monty at the Wal-Mart in Fairfax. I swear to God I almost popped a neck vein. I just wanted to knock her down and start screaming. "Take that stupid shit off!"
> 
> It's like their walking around with their middle fingers extended to everyone's face.


 
You need to relax a little, William.

Wearing that goofy garb is a lot more like she's walking around giving herself the finger.

What is that berka really saying?

It's saying:

"Hi, I'm a terrified religious freak (or a victim of one) who lives in constant fear either of my husband's wrath or of my own sexuality."

You cannot knock that person down because they're already knocked down the moment they don that garb.


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## Shogun

*Muslim immigration worsens a society, not improves it.*

yea yea yea.. they said the same thing about civil rights, woman lib and damn near every wave of immigration to his the continental 48.  sit down and shut the fuck up, Archie.


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## Shogun

William Joyce said:


> Remember seeing a bitch in the full Muslim Monty at the Wal-Mart in Fairfax.  I swear to God I almost popped a neck vein.  I just wanted to knock her down and start screaming.  "Take that stupid shit off!"
> 
> It's like their walking around with their middle fingers extended to everyone's face.



yea, I feel the same way every time I see a fucking skinhead with nazi neck tats all pretending gay little socialist marches through my town will overturn 40 fucking years of muted white power.  Maybe someone should walk behind you and tell you what you should wear to appreciate the US, eh joyce?  I'm thinking a big fat black jew who can slap you around a little and keep you in line, eh?


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## PoliticalChic

When do you think Michelle Obama will be wearing a burqa as a token of respect?  Of course, it will have to be a modified burqa so she can show off her well-toned arms.  Maybe, she'll show off one arm.


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## Shogun

PoliticalChic said:


> When do you think Michelle Obama will be wearing a burqa as a token of respect?  Of course, it will have to be a modified burqa so she can show off her well-toned arms.  Maybe, she'll show off one arm.



would it bother you if she did?  Are muslim women just not relevant until they get their cum catcher tattoo and wear whale tail thong underwear?


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## Skull Pilot

Shogun said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> When do you think Michelle Obama will be wearing a burqa as a token of respect?  Of course, it will have to be a modified burqa so she can show off her well-toned arms.  Maybe, she'll show off one arm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> would it bother you if she did?  Are muslim women just not relevant until they get their cum catcher tattoo and wear whale tail thong underwear?
Click to expand...


Muslim women are irrelevant if they want to be anonymous and hide from the world behind a veil.

i got no problem with it personally.  most Muslim women are FUGLY and their faces should be covered.


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## rhodescholar

Muslims are just not welcome in the West, they bring their awful, wretched closed mindset and unwillingess to accept freedom of speech, thought, or civil behavior.

Every Western country that has accepted muslims has suffered for it, check out France with whole sections populated by poor, lazy muslims who terrorize the people - even police won't enter the slums of paris.  Or Norway, where the muslim facsists seek to have laws changed so that they can rape white nordic women and get away with it - simply because they are not used to seeing women in t-shirts, for instance.

Other countries like the UK that have large muslim immigration suffer as well, interestingly, the Sikhs in the UK do quite well, but the pakistani muslims do very poorly.

I just cannot think of any Western nation that has benefitted from large amounts of muslims entering their country.  And noone in their right mind would ever want to move to a muslim nation shithole, so they should just stay in their own countries and fix them.


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## Shogun

Skull Pilot said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> When do you think Michelle Obama will be wearing a burqa as a token of respect?  Of course, it will have to be a modified burqa so she can show off her well-toned arms.  Maybe, she'll show off one arm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> would it bother you if she did?  Are muslim women just not relevant until they get their cum catcher tattoo and wear whale tail thong underwear?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Muslim women are irrelevant if they want to be anonymous and hide from the world behind a veil.
> 
> i got no problem with it personally.  *most Muslim women are FUGLY and their faces should be covered.*
Click to expand...



yea... i'm reminded of just how irrelevant christian women who don't wear make up are.


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## neurosport

I support the move ! ! !

Now if we can have a law in US prohibiting 14 year old girls from wearing undies ...


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## PoliticalChic

Shogun said:


> *Muslim immigration worsens a society, not improves it.*
> 
> yea yea yea.. they said the same thing about civil rights, woman lib and damn near every wave of immigration to his the continental 48.  sit down and shut the fuck up, Archie.



The following was interesting in the light of the recent elections in the EU:

"The shift has two principal, and related, causes. The more significant one is that over the last three decades, social-democratic Europes political, cultural, academic, and media elites have presided over, and vigorously defended, a vast wave of immigration from the Muslim worldthe largest such influx in human history. According to Foreign Affairs, Muslims in Western Europe numbered between 15 and 20 million in 2005. One source estimates that Britains Muslim population rose from about 82,000 in 1961 to 553,000 in 1981 to 2 million in 2000a demographic change roughly representative of Western Europe as a whole during that period. According to the London Times, the number of Muslims in the U.K. climbed by half a million between 2004 and 2008 alonea rate of growth ten times that of the rest of that countrys population."


"European cities increasingly dangerous for non-Muslimsespecially women, Jews, and gays. In 2001, 65 percent of rapes in Norway were committed by what the countrys police call non-Western mena category consisting overwhelmingly of Muslims, who make up just 2 percent of that countrys population. In 2005, 82 percent of crimes in Copenhagen were committed by members of immigrant groups, the majority of them Muslims.  In Germany, reports Der Spiegel, a disproportionately high percentage of women who flee to womens shelters are Muslim; in 2006, 56 percent of the women at Norwegian shelters were of foreign origin; Deborah Scroggins wrote in The Nation in 2005 that Muslims make up only 5.5 percent of the Dutch population, but they account for more than half the women in battered womens shelters.
Heirs to Fortuyn? by Bruce Bawer, City Journal Spring 2009


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## Shogun

PoliticalChic said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Muslim immigration worsens a society, not improves it.*
> 
> yea yea yea.. they said the same thing about civil rights, woman lib and damn near every wave of immigration to his the continental 48.  sit down and shut the fuck up, Archie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following was interesting in the light of the recent elections in the EU:
> 
> "The shift has two principal, and related, causes. The more significant one is that over the last three decades, social-democratic Europes political, cultural, academic, and media elites have presided over, and vigorously defended, a vast wave of immigration from the Muslim worldthe largest such influx in human history. According to Foreign Affairs, Muslims in Western Europe numbered between 15 and 20 million in 2005. One source estimates that Britains Muslim population rose from about 82,000 in 1961 to 553,000 in 1981 to 2 million in 2000a demographic change roughly representative of Western Europe as a whole during that period. According to the London Times, the number of Muslims in the U.K. climbed by half a million between 2004 and 2008 alonea rate of growth ten times that of the rest of that countrys population."
> 
> 
> "European cities increasingly dangerous for non-Muslimsespecially women, Jews, and gays. In 2001, 65 percent of rapes in Norway were committed by what the countrys police call non-Western mena category consisting overwhelmingly of Muslims, who make up just 2 percent of that countrys population. In 2005, 82 percent of crimes in Copenhagen were committed by members of immigrant groups, the majority of them Muslims.  In Germany, reports Der Spiegel, a disproportionately high percentage of women who flee to womens shelters are Muslim; in 2006, 56 percent of the women at Norwegian shelters were of foreign origin; Deborah Scroggins wrote in The Nation in 2005 that Muslims make up only 5.5 percent of the Dutch population, but they account for more than half the women in battered womens shelters.
> Heirs to Fortuyn? by Bruce Bawer, City Journal Spring 2009
Click to expand...




um, do you think I CANT find up an equivilent piece relating to the growing influence of jews in America over that of a traditionally christian set of morals and values?  Hell, I could trump you on the topic of PORN ALONE.  Are you as willing to support concerned christians agasint the influence of jews as you are against the influence of muslims?  If not, tell me why one set of christian cultural concern is bad and the other good?


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## Skull Pilot

Shogun said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> would it bother you if she did?  Are muslim women just not relevant until they get their cum catcher tattoo and wear whale tail thong underwear?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslim women are irrelevant if they want to be anonymous and hide from the world behind a veil.
> 
> i got no problem with it personally.  *most Muslim women are FUGLY and their faces should be covered.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> yea... i'm reminded of just how irrelevant christian women who don't wear make up are.
Click to expand...


that'd be funny if I was a christian. but hey a little make up can make a catholic schoolgirl look better, where no amount of make up will make a muslim chic look good hence the head to toe costumes.

I prefer atheist girls; no sexual hang ups or desire to pump out tons of kids


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## rhodescholar

Shogun said:


> um, do you think I CANT find up an equivilent piece relating to the growing influence of jews in America over that of a traditionally christian set of morals and values?  Hell, I could trump you on the topic of PORN ALONE.  Are you as willing to support concerned christians agasint the influence of jews as you are against the influence of muslims?  If not, tell me why one set of christian cultural concern is bad and the other good?



I can see why I put this imbecile on ignore.  Please explain to this gorilla, since I won't waste my time with it, what the difference between adults WILLINGLY participating and purchasing what _ some _ elements of society considers porn, and violence, robbery, criminality, female subjugation, rape and murder is.

Then please ask the monkey for evidence supporting its conclusion that jews have somehow "influenced" US culture.  And stormfront.org is not a satisfactory evidentiary site.


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## PoliticalChic

Shogun said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Muslim immigration worsens a society, not improves it.*
> 
> yea yea yea.. they said the same thing about civil rights, woman lib and damn near every wave of immigration to his the continental 48.  sit down and shut the fuck up, Archie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following was interesting in the light of the recent elections in the EU:
> 
> "The shift has two principal, and related, causes. The more significant one is that over the last three decades, social-democratic Europe&#8217;s political, cultural, academic, and media elites have presided over, and vigorously defended, a vast wave of immigration from the Muslim world&#8212;the largest such influx in human history. According to Foreign Affairs, Muslims in Western Europe numbered between 15 and 20 million in 2005. One source estimates that Britain&#8217;s Muslim population rose from about 82,000 in 1961 to 553,000 in 1981 to 2 million in 2000&#8212;a demographic change roughly representative of Western Europe as a whole during that period. According to the London Times, the number of Muslims in the U.K. climbed by half a million between 2004 and 2008 alone&#8212;a rate of growth ten times that of the rest of that country&#8217;s population."
> 
> 
> "&#8230;European cities increasingly dangerous for non-Muslims&#8212;especially women, Jews, and gays. In 2001, 65 percent of rapes in Norway were committed by what the country&#8217;s police call &#8220;non-Western&#8221; men&#8212;a category consisting overwhelmingly of Muslims, who make up just 2 percent of that country&#8217;s population. In 2005, 82 percent of crimes in Copenhagen were committed by members of immigrant groups, the majority of them Muslims.  In Germany, reports Der Spiegel, &#8220;a disproportionately high percentage of women who flee to women&#8217;s shelters are Muslim&#8221;; in 2006, 56 percent of the women at Norwegian shelters were of foreign origin; Deborah Scroggins wrote in The Nation in 2005 that &#8220;Muslims make up only 5.5 percent of the Dutch population, but they account for more than half the women in battered women&#8217;s shelters.&#8221;
> Heirs to Fortuyn? by Bruce Bawer, City Journal Spring 2009
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> um, do you think I CANT find up an equivilent piece relating to the growing influence of jews in America over that of a traditionally christian set of morals and values?  Hell, I could trump you on the topic of PORN ALONE.  Are you as willing to support concerned christians agasint the influence of jews as you are against the influence of muslims?  If not, tell me why one set of christian cultural concern is bad and the other good?
Click to expand...


While it might be a parry, it is certainly not a thrust. 

Changing the subject is item one under "Juvenile Debating Techniques."

Question for debate was "Muslim immigration worsens a society, not improves it."

I specifically defended it, while you dropped it like it was hot.

Nor am I  making an argument " against the influence of muslims."  As a Conservative, I believe that data should inform policy. This the substance of my post. My data shows the population size of Muslims in Europe, and attempts to relate same to the crime statistics that the quote poses. 

Had you offered a counter argument, it would be along the lines of disputing the realtionship, as in the fallacy of "post hoc ergo propter hoc."  Difficult.

But, it seems that you are unable to counter the argument, so your only option is to slink away.


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## caterpillar

editec said:


> What is that berka really saying?
> 
> It's saying:
> 
> "Hi, I'm a terrified religious freak (or a victim of one) who lives in constant fear either of my husband's wrath or of my own sexuality."
> 
> You cannot knock that person down because they're already knocked down the moment they don that garb.



Above rubbish is exactly why I oppose these sorts of laws.  Those opposing the Burqa's are anti-religion hatemongers and socially liberal bigots.  When "conservatives" like Sarkozy (the Jew who claims to be Catholic who dumped his wife right after getting elected) promote this stuff you know, as if you needed proof, they are not really "conservatives."

I don't personally like these outfits but I will fight the anti-religion bigots and "oh so tolerant" hypocrite liberals and their opportunist pseudo-conservative friends who try to harrass or demonize these women who CHOOSE to dress in this manner based on their faith, philosophy, or heritage.


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## PoliticalChic

caterpillar said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is that berka really saying?
> 
> It's saying:
> 
> "Hi, I'm a terrified religious freak (or a victim of one) who lives in constant fear either of my husband's wrath or of my own sexuality."
> 
> You cannot knock that person down because they're already knocked down the moment they don that garb.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Above rubbish is exactly why I oppose these sorts of laws.  Those opposing the Burqa's are anti-religion hatemongers and socially liberal bigots.  When "conservatives" like Sarkozy (the Jew who claims to be Catholic who dumped his wife right after getting elected) promote this stuff you know, as if you needed proof, they are not really "conservatives."
> 
> I don't personally like these outfits but I will fight the anti-religion bigots and "oh so tolerant" hypocrite liberals and their opportunist pseudo-conservative friends who try to harrass or demonize these women who CHOOSE to dress in this manner based on their faith, philosophy, or heritage.
Click to expand...


Mucho hate there, but don't worry: I'll pray for you.


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## rhodescholar

PoliticalChic said:


> While it might be a parry, it is certainly not a thrust.
> 
> Changing the subject is item one under "Juvenile Debating Techniques."
> 
> Question for debate was "Muslim immigration worsens a society, not improves it."
> 
> I specifically defended it, while you dropped it like it was hot.
> 
> Nor am I  making an argument " against the influence of muslims."  As a Conservative, I believe that data should inform policy. This the substance of my post. My data shows the population size of Muslims in Europe, and attempts to relate same to the crime statistics that the quote poses.
> 
> Had you offered a counter argument, it would be along the lines of disputing the realtionship, as in the fallacy of "post hoc ergo propter hoc."  Difficult.
> 
> But, it seems that you are unable to counter the argument, so your only option is to slink away.



This is why I put this monkey on ignore.  Its like being in a thread discussing Chocolate Chip cookie recipes, and the imbecile strolling bones drops in to say, "did the jews use that recipe after they attacked the Liberty?"

The only fault lies with anyone who expects the idiots and trolls to post an intelligent response.


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## Shogun

PoliticalChic said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The following was interesting in the light of the recent elections in the EU:
> 
> "The shift has two principal, and related, causes. The more significant one is that over the last three decades, social-democratic Europes political, cultural, academic, and media elites have presided over, and vigorously defended, a vast wave of immigration from the Muslim worldthe largest such influx in human history. According to Foreign Affairs, Muslims in Western Europe numbered between 15 and 20 million in 2005. One source estimates that Britains Muslim population rose from about 82,000 in 1961 to 553,000 in 1981 to 2 million in 2000a demographic change roughly representative of Western Europe as a whole during that period. According to the London Times, the number of Muslims in the U.K. climbed by half a million between 2004 and 2008 alonea rate of growth ten times that of the rest of that countrys population."
> 
> 
> "European cities increasingly dangerous for non-Muslimsespecially women, Jews, and gays. In 2001, 65 percent of rapes in Norway were committed by what the countrys police call non-Western mena category consisting overwhelmingly of Muslims, who make up just 2 percent of that countrys population. In 2005, 82 percent of crimes in Copenhagen were committed by members of immigrant groups, the majority of them Muslims.  In Germany, reports Der Spiegel, a disproportionately high percentage of women who flee to womens shelters are Muslim; in 2006, 56 percent of the women at Norwegian shelters were of foreign origin; Deborah Scroggins wrote in The Nation in 2005 that Muslims make up only 5.5 percent of the Dutch population, but they account for more than half the women in battered womens shelters.
> Heirs to Fortuyn? by Bruce Bawer, City Journal Spring 2009
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> um, do you think I CANT find up an equivilent piece relating to the growing influence of jews in America over that of a traditionally christian set of morals and values?  Hell, I could trump you on the topic of PORN ALONE.  Are you as willing to support concerned christians agasint the influence of jews as you are against the influence of muslims?  If not, tell me why one set of christian cultural concern is bad and the other good?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While it might be a parry, it is certainly not a thrust.
> 
> Changing the subject is item one under "Juvenile Debating Techniques."
> 
> Question for debate was "Muslim immigration worsens a society, not improves it."
> 
> I specifically defended it, while you dropped it like it was hot.
> 
> Nor am I  making an argument " against the influence of muslims."  As a Conservative, I believe that data should inform policy. This the substance of my post. My data shows the population size of Muslims in Europe, and attempts to relate same to the crime statistics that the quote poses.
> 
> Had you offered a counter argument, it would be along the lines of disputing the realtionship, as in the fallacy of "post hoc ergo propter hoc."  Difficult.
> 
> But, it seems that you are unable to counter the argument, so your only option is to slink away.
Click to expand...


If the subject is racist xenophobia then who is changing the subject here?  Whatsa matter?  afraid to replace the word MUSLIM with the word JEW? 

after all, it's SO HARD to find evidence of the exact same xenophbia!

The tapes also include a phone call from February 1973 between Nixon and the evangelist Billy Graham, during which Mr. Graham complained that Jewish-American leaders were opposing efforts to promote evangelical Christianity, like CampusCrusade. The two men agreed that the Jewish leaders risked setting off anti-Semitic sentiment.

What I really think is deep down in this country, there is a lot of anti-Semitism, and all this is going to do is stir it up, Nixon said.

At another point he said: It may be they have a death wish. You know thats been the problem with our Jewish friends for centuries.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/us/politics/24nixon.html





clearly, Nixon should have learned your dance moves.


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## editec

caterpillar said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is that berka really saying?
> 
> It's saying:
> 
> "Hi, I'm a terrified religious freak (or a victim of one) who lives in constant fear either of my husband's wrath or of my own sexuality."
> 
> You cannot knock that person down because they're already knocked down the moment they don that garb.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Above rubbish is exactly why I oppose these sorts of laws.
> 
> The above rubbish in no way support those laws.
> 
> Perhaps you should read it again.
Click to expand...


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## Bootneck

caterpillar said:


> Those opposing the Burqa's are anti-religion hatemongers and socially liberal bigots.  When "conservatives" like Sarkozy (the Jew who claims to be Catholic who dumped his wife right after getting elected) promote this stuff you know, as if you needed proof, they are not really "conservatives."



Are you aware that for the past 80 years Turks have lived in a secular state founded by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, who rejected headscarves as backward-looking in his campaign to secularise Turkish society. To this day, even headscarves are banned in civic spaces, including schools, universities - state or private - and official buildings. And it's a muslim country!

So, by your standards the Turks are 'anti-religion hatemongers and socially liberal bigots'.


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## Shogun

HA!  a conservative looking to Turkey for political ideological support.. classic.  hey, dude, is there anything ELSE in Turkey's culture you want to validate or would you rather just pick and choose what is politically convenient?


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## Bootneck

Shogun said:


> HA!  a conservative looking to Turkey for political ideological support.. classic.  hey, dude, is there anything ELSE in Turkey's culture you want to validate or would you rather just pick and choose what is politically convenient?



Zip up your arse dickhead, your brains are falling out.


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## Shogun

Bootneck said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> HA!  a conservative looking to Turkey for political ideological support.. classic.  hey, dude, is there anything ELSE in Turkey's culture you want to validate or would you rather just pick and choose what is politically convenient?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zip up your arse dickhead, your brains are falling out.
Click to expand...


brilliant retort!  I guess i'd want to avoid using Turkey's Stamp of Approval too if I were a standard issue chickenhawk.


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## Bootneck

Shogun said:


> Bootneck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> HA!  a conservative looking to Turkey for political ideological support.. classic.  hey, dude, is there anything ELSE in Turkey's culture you want to validate or would you rather just pick and choose what is politically convenient?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zip up your arse dickhead, your brains are falling out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> brilliant retort!  I guess i'd want to avoid using Turkey's Stamp of Approval too if I were a standard issue chickenhawk.
Click to expand...


Still got it open then.


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## Shogun

still trying to avoid that you just used Turkey as a positive example, eh?


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## Bootneck

Shogun said:


> still trying to avoid that you just used Turkey as a positive example, eh?



A slogan for Shogun. Yours with my compliments. Can't think of anyone more appropriate to use it as a sig.

*Excreta Tauri Astutos Frustantur *


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## GHook93

Shogun said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Muslim immigration worsens a society, not improves it.*
> 
> yea yea yea.. they said the same thing about civil rights, woman lib and damn near every wave of immigration to his the continental 48.  sit down and shut the fuck up, Archie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following was interesting in the light of the recent elections in the EU:
> 
> "The shift has two principal, and related, causes. The more significant one is that over the last three decades, social-democratic Europe&#8217;s political, cultural, academic, and media elites have presided over, and vigorously defended, a vast wave of immigration from the Muslim world&#8212;the largest such influx in human history. According to Foreign Affairs, Muslims in Western Europe numbered between 15 and 20 million in 2005. One source estimates that Britain&#8217;s Muslim population rose from about 82,000 in 1961 to 553,000 in 1981 to 2 million in 2000&#8212;a demographic change roughly representative of Western Europe as a whole during that period. According to the London Times, the number of Muslims in the U.K. climbed by half a million between 2004 and 2008 alone&#8212;a rate of growth ten times that of the rest of that country&#8217;s population."
> 
> 
> "&#8230;European cities increasingly dangerous for non-Muslims&#8212;especially women, Jews, and gays. In 2001, 65 percent of rapes in Norway were committed by what the country&#8217;s police call &#8220;non-Western&#8221; men&#8212;a category consisting overwhelmingly of Muslims, who make up just 2 percent of that country&#8217;s population. In 2005, 82 percent of crimes in Copenhagen were committed by members of immigrant groups, the majority of them Muslims.  In Germany, reports Der Spiegel, &#8220;a disproportionately high percentage of women who flee to women&#8217;s shelters are Muslim&#8221;; in 2006, 56 percent of the women at Norwegian shelters were of foreign origin; Deborah Scroggins wrote in The Nation in 2005 that &#8220;Muslims make up only 5.5 percent of the Dutch population, but they account for more than half the women in battered women&#8217;s shelters.&#8221;
> Heirs to Fortuyn? by Bruce Bawer, City Journal Spring 2009
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> um, do you think I CANT find up an equivilent piece relating to the growing influence of jews in America over that of a traditionally christian set of morals and values?  Hell, I could trump you on the topic of PORN ALONE.  Are you as willing to support concerned christians agasint the influence of jews as you are against the influence of muslims?  If not, tell me why one set of christian cultural concern is bad and the other good?
Click to expand...


So do you fricking do it cock-sucker! Show American Jews like Eisenstein, Dylan, Oppenheimer, Paul Warburg (US Central Bank Founder) or Mark Zuckarberg (Facebook founder) who haven't done a think for America or the world as a whole!



> Of American Nobel Prize winners, 37% have been Jewish Americans (19 times the percentage of Jews in the population), as have been 71% of the John Bates Clark Medal winners (thirty-five times the Jewish percentage).


The New Power Elite | Mother Jones


----------



## Shogun

Bootneck said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> still trying to avoid that you just used Turkey as a positive example, eh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A slogan for Shogun. Yours with my compliments. Can't think of anyone more appropriate to use it as a sig.
> 
> *Excreta Tauri Astutos Frustantur *
Click to expand...


HA!  again, BRILLIANT retort, dude!  Gosh, I WONDER why i've got you on the run instead of offering a rebuttal to using Turkey as a positive example, chickenhawk.  Gosh, hope your buddies down at the VA don't get wind of this...


----------



## Shogun

GHook93 said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The following was interesting in the light of the recent elections in the EU:
> 
> "The shift has two principal, and related, causes. The more significant one is that over the last three decades, social-democratic Europes political, cultural, academic, and media elites have presided over, and vigorously defended, a vast wave of immigration from the Muslim worldthe largest such influx in human history. According to Foreign Affairs, Muslims in Western Europe numbered between 15 and 20 million in 2005. One source estimates that Britains Muslim population rose from about 82,000 in 1961 to 553,000 in 1981 to 2 million in 2000a demographic change roughly representative of Western Europe as a whole during that period. According to the London Times, the number of Muslims in the U.K. climbed by half a million between 2004 and 2008 alonea rate of growth ten times that of the rest of that countrys population."
> 
> 
> "European cities increasingly dangerous for non-Muslimsespecially women, Jews, and gays. In 2001, 65 percent of rapes in Norway were committed by what the countrys police call non-Western mena category consisting overwhelmingly of Muslims, who make up just 2 percent of that countrys population. In 2005, 82 percent of crimes in Copenhagen were committed by members of immigrant groups, the majority of them Muslims.  In Germany, reports Der Spiegel, a disproportionately high percentage of women who flee to womens shelters are Muslim; in 2006, 56 percent of the women at Norwegian shelters were of foreign origin; Deborah Scroggins wrote in The Nation in 2005 that Muslims make up only 5.5 percent of the Dutch population, but they account for more than half the women in battered womens shelters.
> Heirs to Fortuyn? by Bruce Bawer, City Journal Spring 2009
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> um, do you think I CANT find up an equivilent piece relating to the growing influence of jews in America over that of a traditionally christian set of morals and values?  Hell, I could trump you on the topic of PORN ALONE.  Are you as willing to support concerned christians agasint the influence of jews as you are against the influence of muslims?  If not, tell me why one set of christian cultural concern is bad and the other good?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So do you fricking do it cock-sucker! Show American Jews like Eisenstein, Dylan, Oppenheimer, Paul Warburg (US Central Bank Founder) or Mark Zuckarberg (Facebook founder) who haven't done a think for America or the world as a whole!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of American Nobel Prize winners, 37% have been Jewish Americans (19 times the percentage of Jews in the population), as have been 71% of the John Bates Clark Medal winners (thirty-five times the Jewish percentage).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The New Power Elite | Mother Jones
Click to expand...


First off, jew, the Nobel prize is HARDLY an exclusive American prize.  So, really, if a jew wins it there is no relevance to America at all.

Second, jew, I've posted evidence that YOUR racist zionist impulse is no different than Nixon letting one of the nation's most famous CHRISTIANS complain about jewish influence.  Hence, if it's bad when THEY are xenophobic then so, too, is it bad when jews can't stomach anything non-jewish.  

Now, I realize that your first impulse will be to scream antisemite.  yea, we've heard it before.  Then, i'm sure you'll look for any reason t pat yourself on your jewish back by assuming a Sweedish prize given to jews means anything to anyone.  Sorry, it doesn't.  You can insinuate whatever you want to, jew, because at the end of the day we ALL know that the ONLY people you are looking out for are jews much like Aryans in Germany looked out for those with blond hair and blue eyes.


----------



## Bootneck

Shogun said:


> Bootneck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> still trying to avoid that you just used Turkey as a positive example, eh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A slogan for Shogun. Yours with my compliments. Can't think of anyone more appropriate to use it as a sig.
> 
> *Excreta Tauri Astutos Frustantur *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> HA!  again, BRILLIANT retort, dude!  Gosh, I WONDER why i've got you on the run instead of offering a rebuttal to using Turkey as a positive example, chickenhawk.  Gosh, hope your buddies down at the VA don't get wind of this...
Click to expand...


What's the point in arguing with a one string violin that plays the same tune over and over and over and over. Shit, it doesn't even realise I'm not from the USA! Else it wouldn't refer to the VA.

Not on the run old chap. The post I made speaks for itself. Nothing to add. Nothing to change. You wanna make something else of it, that's fine. Feel free. It worries me not.


----------



## Shogun

HA!

yea, dude.. and, clearly you BELIEVE That given every post you felt the urge to come back and retort silly nonsense with!

Please, tell me about how brave you are while hiding in a foxhole next.


----------



## neurosport

I don't understand why Ghook listed Warburg as one of the great Americans yet his sig says repeal 16th amendment ?


----------



## Kalam

rhodescholar said:


> Muslims are just not welcome in the West,


Planning on doing something about that?


----------



## editec

Kalam said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims are just not welcome in the West,
> 
> 
> 
> Planning on doing something about that?
Click to expand...

 
Apparently France is.

Sarkozy says burqas are 'not welcome' in France


----------



## neurosport

rhodescholar said:


> Muslims are just not welcome in the West,



i had a thought the other day that maybe different religions were created specifically for the purpose of separating people ?

the whole christian vs muslim thing is a lot like republican vs democrat ...


----------



## editec

neurosport said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims are just not welcome in the West,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i had a thought the other day that maybe different religions were created specifically for the purpose of separating people ?
> 
> the whole christian vs muslim thing is a lot like republican vs democrat ...
Click to expand...

 
Only with bombs.


----------



## Father Time

rhodescholar said:


> Muslims are just not welcome in the West, they bring their awful, wretched closed mindset and unwillingess to accept freedom of speech, thought, or civil behavior.
> 
> Every Western country that has accepted muslims has suffered for it, check out France with whole sections populated by poor, lazy muslims who terrorize the people - even police won't enter the slums of paris.  Or Norway, where the muslim facsists seek to have laws changed so that they can rape white nordic women and get away with it - simply because they are not used to seeing women in t-shirts, for instance.
> 
> Other countries like the UK that have large muslim immigration suffer as well, interestingly, the Sikhs in the UK do quite well, but the pakistani muslims do very poorly.
> 
> I just cannot think of any Western nation that has benefitted from large amounts of muslims entering their country.  And noone in their right mind would ever want to move to a muslim nation shithole, so they should just stay in their own countries and fix them.



Do you have a link for Muslim groups trying to change the rape law in Norway?


----------



## Political Junky

editec said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims are just not welcome in the West,
> 
> 
> 
> Planning on doing something about that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently France is.
> 
> Sarkozy says burqas are 'not welcome' in France
Click to expand...

He said no to burqas, not, no Muslims. France has a huge Muslim population.


----------



## editec

Political Junky said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> Planning on doing something about that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently France is.
> 
> Sarkozy says burqas are 'not welcome' in France
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He said no to burqas, not, no Muslims. France has a huge Muslim population.
Click to expand...

 
True but as the burqas is _de rigor_ for extreme Muslim religionists.

So by outlawing that garb he is making France a place where those people are less likely to stay, too, isn't he?

I mean, _come on..._the center of the world of fashion (much of which is as absurd as any burqa!) outlaws _outlandish garb?_

What other interpretation could one arrive at, but that such was his motivation?

Certainly, of all people, *the FRENCH* ought to be indifferent to exotic fashion statements.


----------



## adeel_sami

They can do whatever they like because its their country ..


----------



## GHook93

adeel_sami said:


> They can do whatever they like because its their country ..



And as a Pakistani are you OK with that? I mean most of the Muslims in France are citizens and in the country legally. So in effect its their country also. So are you OK with them being told that they must take their burqas off?


----------



## adeel_sami

I personally feel okay if they are told to do so. 
The respect of religion should be in ones heart. 
Taking veils off, I think not a big deal. 
Generally, many Muslims women dont care about it even in Pakistan...
So they should not be bothered at all because they live in west and its not their own country ... Its a French soil ..


----------



## L.K.Eder

Skull Pilot said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> When do you think Michelle Obama will be wearing a burqa as a token of respect?  Of course, it will have to be a modified burqa so she can show off her well-toned arms.  Maybe, she'll show off one arm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> would it bother you if she did?  Are muslim women just not relevant until they get their cum catcher tattoo and wear whale tail thong underwear?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Muslim women are irrelevant if they want to be anonymous and hide from the world behind a veil.
> 
> i got no problem with it personally.  *most Muslim women are FUGLY and their faces should be covered.*
Click to expand...




you must be the victim of a low sampling error.


----------



## Gurdari

Racist posts aside (I need a huge industrial broom to push all of them to the side) - Sarkozy's position is illogical and fairly stupid, I would assume it was a misquote as he normally appears somewhat shrewd, but actually telling people how to dress? Wow. 

Why not ban yellow T-shirts while he's at it? Or something equally in line with the proud egalitarian traditions France espouses... well, in their motto anyway.


----------



## Gurdari

adeel_sami said:


> I personally feel okay if they are told to do so.
> The respect of religion should be in ones heart.
> Taking veils off, I think not a big deal.
> Generally, many Muslims women dont care about it even in Pakistan...
> So they should not be bothered at all because they live in west and its not their own country ... Its a French soil ..



That isn't the point really... I don't feel like wearing striped shirts very often, but if the government told me I was BANNED from wearing them, I would fight that based on it's stupidity.

What f*cking year is this, anyway? Haven't we progressed socially when it comes to people wearing what they like? At least we in the 'West' with our enlightened way of living?


----------



## GHook93

Gurdari said:


> adeel_sami said:
> 
> 
> 
> I personally feel okay if they are told to do so.
> The respect of religion should be in ones heart.
> Taking veils off, I think not a big deal.
> Generally, many Muslims women dont care about it even in Pakistan...
> So they should not be bothered at all because they live in west and its not their own country ... Its a French soil ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That isn't the point really... I don't feel like wearing striped shirts very often, but if the government told me I was BANNED from wearing them, I would fight that based on it's stupidity.
> 
> What f*cking year is this, anyway? Haven't we progressed socially when it comes to people wearing what they like? At least we in the 'West' with our enlightened way of living?
Click to expand...


Man why not just compare an apple to an elephant!


----------



## adeel_sami

Gurdari said:


> adeel_sami said:
> 
> 
> 
> I personally feel okay if they are told to do so.
> The respect of religion should be in ones heart.
> Taking veils off, I think not a big deal.
> Generally, many Muslims women dont care about it even in Pakistan...
> So they should not be bothered at all because they live in west and its not their own country ... Its a French soil ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That isn't the point really... I don't feel like wearing striped shirts very often, but if the government told me I was BANNED from wearing them, I would fight that based on it's stupidity.
> 
> What f*cking year is this, anyway? Haven't we progressed socially when it comes to people wearing what they like? At least we in the 'West' with our enlightened way of living?
Click to expand...


Muslims have got problem in almost every country from the west .. And when they are told not to do something, they should have to stop doing it right away ..  
Why to show yourself much religious when living in the west ? 
Why dont do damn care about it back to home(Muslim countries) ?


----------



## GHook93

adeel_sami said:


> Gurdari said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> adeel_sami said:
> 
> 
> 
> I personally feel okay if they are told to do so.
> The respect of religion should be in ones heart.
> Taking veils off, I think not a big deal.
> Generally, many Muslims women dont care about it even in Pakistan...
> So they should not be bothered at all because they live in west and its not their own country ... Its a French soil ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That isn't the point really... I don't feel like wearing striped shirts very often, but if the government told me I was BANNED from wearing them, I would fight that based on it's stupidity.
> 
> What f*cking year is this, anyway? Haven't we progressed socially when it comes to people wearing what they like? At least we in the 'West' with our enlightened way of living?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Muslims have got problem in almost every country from the west .. And when they are told not to do something, they should have to stop doing it right away ..
> Why to show yourself much religious when living in the west ?
> Why dont do damn care about it back to home(Muslim countries) ?
Click to expand...


I disagree. Although I think assimulation is very important for immigrates, I don't think unjust infringing on one's religion for arbitrary reason (which I don't think that is the case here) is OK! If the Frogs said no barqas for security reasons. I mean you don't really know who or what is under there, I could understand that. However, if they said that for because they believe women are being subjected to humilation by their husbands, then I have a problem with that.

Adeel,

I believe you support the Frog's move, because you don't want anyone crying foul about Pakistan's poor treatment of women, ethnic minorities and esp religious minorities!


----------



## Gurdari

GHook93 said:


> Gurdari said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> adeel_sami said:
> 
> 
> 
> I personally feel okay if they are told to do so.
> The respect of religion should be in ones heart.
> Taking veils off, I think not a big deal.
> Generally, many Muslims women dont care about it even in Pakistan...
> So they should not be bothered at all because they live in west and its not their own country ... Its a French soil ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That isn't the point really... I don't feel like wearing striped shirts very often, but if the government told me I was BANNED from wearing them, I would fight that based on it's stupidity.
> 
> What f*cking year is this, anyway? Haven't we progressed socially when it comes to people wearing what they like? At least we in the 'West' with our enlightened way of living?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Man why not just compare an apple to an elephant!
Click to expand...



Okay. Both are organic, one is an animal, the other a plant.

I would think comparing a T-shirt (clothing) to a burqa (clothing) would be fairly relevant.


----------



## Gurdari

adeel_sami said:


> Gurdari said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> adeel_sami said:
> 
> 
> 
> I personally feel okay if they are told to do so.
> The respect of religion should be in ones heart.
> Taking veils off, I think not a big deal.
> Generally, many Muslims women dont care about it even in Pakistan...
> So they should not be bothered at all because they live in west and its not their own country ... Its a French soil ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That isn't the point really... I don't feel like wearing striped shirts very often, but if the government told me I was BANNED from wearing them, I would fight that based on it's stupidity.
> 
> What f*cking year is this, anyway? Haven't we progressed socially when it comes to people wearing what they like? At least we in the 'West' with our enlightened way of living?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Muslims have got problem in almost every country from the west .. And when they are told not to do something, they should have to stop doing it right away ..
> Why to show yourself much religious when living in the west ?
> Why dont do damn care about it back to home(Muslim countries) ?
Click to expand...


huh?  I thought we were discussing Sarkozy and his view/statement/etc about banning a type of clothing, unless he is Muslim?

Regardless, I should be able to wear one if I feel like it.


----------



## Gurdari

GHook93 said:


> If the Frogs said no barqas for security reasons. I mean you don't really know who or what is under there, I could understand that.



Hang on... if it's security, then it has nothing to do with burqas. It has to do with clothing that can hide weapons/etc. Of which burqas may be one style. 

If one were to ban something based on physics, that is different.


----------



## Father Time

GHook93 said:


> However, if they said that for because they believe women are being subjected to humilation by their husbands, then I have a problem with that.



If yours is a common opinion methinks the talks of banning burqas will look like Seinfeld.

I'd like to return this suit.
Why?
Out of spite.
Spite?
Yeah I don't like the guy who sold it to me so I want to return it out of spite.
We don't accept spite as a reason to return something
Oh well then I don't like it.
Sorry, we can't return it.
Why not?
Because you all ready said spite.


----------



## Anguille

A burka is a blessing when you're having a bad hair day and nothing decent to wear.


----------



## Anguille

Sarko is no different than the men he accuses of forcing women to dress as they want them to dress.


----------



## Anguille

Sarko is just practicing the age old trick sleazy pols have pulled since time began.  Stir up racism and bigotry among the people and then they will be too divided to come together and demand to know why you haven't addressed or solved any of the real problems of the day.


----------



## Father Time

Anguille said:


> A burka is a blessing when you're having a bad hair day and nothing decent to wear.



Or you could just wear a hat.


----------



## editec

Anguille said:


> Sarko is no different than the men he accuses of forcing women to dress as they want them to dress.


 
France can't allow women to degrade themselves with outlandish  fashion statements

That's a job for Parisian fashion designers.


----------



## Anguille

Father Time said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> A burka is a blessing when you're having a bad hair day and nothing decent to wear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or you could just wear a hat.
Click to expand...


Naked and in a hat ... hmmmn. 

Personally I don't think I would ever have a reason or desire to wear a burka.  But if you think about it, it does offer certain advantages. Anonymity can be useful. Especially if you just want to avoid annoying people you run into in the supermarket. 

Whether a person wants to wear one or not, whose business is it other than their own? I see people wearing all kinds of outfits that I wouldn't be caught dead in but am I in any position to dictate a dress code to them? 

Banning burkas is Fashion Police aimed at restricting the rights of Muslim women. Sarko once again proves himself to be an ass.


----------



## Father Time

If you want to be anonymous than try a mask. Tis been done before in protests. 
I have a problem with a burqa ban but if they're going to be legal it should also be legal to mock and insult all those who choose to wear one.


----------



## Anguille

Father Time said:


> ...  if they're going to be legal it should also be legal to mock and insult all those who choose to wear one.


  Isn't it legal anyway? We make fun of nuns and other people in odd clothing.


----------



## adeel_sami

GHook93 said:


> adeel_sami said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gurdari said:
> 
> 
> 
> That isn't the point really... I don't feel like wearing striped shirts very often, but if the government told me I was BANNED from wearing them, I would fight that based on it's stupidity.
> 
> What f*cking year is this, anyway? Haven't we progressed socially when it comes to people wearing what they like? At least we in the 'West' with our enlightened way of living?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims have got problem in almost every country from the west .. And when they are told not to do something, they should have to stop doing it right away ..
> Why to show yourself much religious when living in the west ?
> Why dont do damn care about it back to home(Muslim countries) ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree. Although I think assimulation is very important for immigrates, I don't think unjust infringing on one's religion for arbitrary reason (which I don't think that is the case here) is OK! If the Frogs said no barqas for security reasons. I mean you don't really know who or what is under there, I could understand that. However, if they said that for because they believe women are being subjected to humilation by their husbands, then I have a problem with that.
> 
> Adeel,
> 
> I believe you support the Frog's move, because you don't want anyone crying foul about Pakistan's poor treatment of women, ethnic minorities and esp religious minorities!
Click to expand...


Okay, put the burqa issue aside and pardon me taking my subject off topic..

The victim in the case of France, is a muslim woman.

I have to enlighten up the case of Saudi's women who cant go outside alone. Without the company of her male relatives (brother, father and husband), they are not allowed. 

If we are really so concerned about the muslim women, why dont we take out real problems they are facing ? 
In Saudi's case, state is a muslim state, Govt is muslim, legislators and legislations are muslim, nation is muslim, men are muslims, women are muslims .. And that such unjust in a muslim states with the muslim nation is really wrong. ..

Where the muslims are not spare from their muslim care takers .. Why are we that concerned for the muslim wowen of a christian state ??


----------



## Anguille

adeel_sami said:


> Okay, put the burqa issue aside and pardon me taking my subject off topic..
> 
> The victim in the case of France, is a muslim woman.
> 
> I have to enlighten up the case of Saudi's women who cant go outside alone. Without the company of her male relatives (brother, father and husband), they are not allowed.
> 
> If we are really so concerned about the muslim women, why dont we take out real problems they are facing ?
> In Saudi's case, state is a muslim state, Govt is muslim, legislators and legislations are muslim, nation is muslim, men are muslims, women are muslims .. And that such unjust in a muslim states with the muslim nation is really wrong. ..
> 
> Where the muslims are not spare from their muslim care takers .. Why are we that concerned for the muslim wowen of a christian state ??


I did not agree with your previous posts, Adeel, but you make a good point in this one.


----------



## adeel_sami

Anguille said:


> adeel_sami said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, put the burqa issue aside and pardon me taking my subject off topic..
> 
> The victim in the case of France, is a muslim woman.
> 
> I have to enlighten up the case of Saudi's women who cant go outside alone. Without the company of her male relatives (brother, father and husband), they are not allowed.
> 
> If we are really so concerned about the muslim women, why dont we take out real problems they are facing ?
> In Saudi's case, state is a muslim state, Govt is muslim, legislators and legislations are muslim, nation is muslim, men are muslims, women are muslims .. And that such unjust in a muslim states with the muslim nation is really wrong. ..
> 
> Where the muslims are not spare from their muslim care takers .. Why are we that concerned for the muslim wowen of a christian state ??
> 
> 
> 
> I did not agree with your previous posts, Adeel, but you make a good point in this one.
Click to expand...



Thanks for it Anguille ... 

I think being as a muslim, I shouldn't have to go against them. 
Burqa is, actually the symbol to a muslim woman .. (and it should be) .. Though many of women don't care about it .. 

I've to tell you a personal ideology which I own at the moment.
Whenever I see a muslim lady covering her whole body in a burqa, just you can see her eyes and the burqa's color is black; I get it like a suicide bomber coming and passing .. 
(_sorry for the harsh words_) ..


----------



## Anguille

adeel_sami said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> adeel_sami said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, put the burqa issue aside and pardon me taking my subject off topic..
> 
> The victim in the case of France, is a muslim woman.
> 
> I have to enlighten up the case of Saudi's women who cant go outside alone. Without the company of her male relatives (brother, father and husband), they are not allowed.
> 
> If we are really so concerned about the muslim women, why dont we take out real problems they are facing ?
> In Saudi's case, state is a muslim state, Govt is muslim, legislators and legislations are muslim, nation is muslim, men are muslims, women are muslims .. And that such unjust in a muslim states with the muslim nation is really wrong. ..
> 
> Where the muslims are not spare from their muslim care takers .. Why are we that concerned for the muslim wowen of a christian state ??
> 
> 
> 
> I did not agree with your previous posts, Adeel, but you make a good point in this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for it Anguille ...
> 
> I think being as a muslim, I shouldn't have to go against them.
> Burqa is, actually the symbol to a muslim woman .. (and it should be) .. Though many of women don't care about it ..
> 
> I've to tell you a personal ideology which I own at the moment.
> Whenever I see a muslim lady covering her whole body in a burqa, just you can see her eyes and the burqa's color is black; I get it like a suicide bomber coming and passing ..
> (_sorry for the harsh words_) ..
Click to expand...


When I see photos of Saudi families where you can see the faces and smiles of the husband and children but the mother/wife is encased in a shroud and her humanity erased, invisible, like a black hole in the photo, it makes me sad and afraid for her. 

Nonetheless, I believe no one has any business telling women they can't or they must wear a burka. It's a woman's own choice.

Banning burka's is not going to do anything to liberate oppressed women in France. It will only turn them into the rope in a tug of war between the zenophobic French and French Muslims. 

If Sarko really cared about abused women he would address this as part of a wider problem of spousal abuse, not single out all Muslim women in burkas as perpetrators and enablers of domestic violence. 

Granted he said he only wished  to find a way to discourage the wearing of burkas not ban them but he's just being a crafty politician. It's clear what his aims are.

I don't know any Muslim women who wear a burka but I know a few who wear a head scarf. They tell me they do so to show respect to Allah, not demonstrate a subservience to their husbands. Some Jewish men wear yarmulkes to show respect for the Jewish god. I don't see much difference between the two customs. But only one is being condemned by bigots in the west.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Father Time said:


> If you want to be anonymous than try a mask. Tis been done before in protests.
> I have a problem with a burqa ban but if they're going to be legal it should also be legal to mock and insult all those who choose to wear one.



Wearing masks at a protest is illegal in NYC


----------



## Father Time

PoliticalChic said:


> Father Time said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to be anonymous than try a mask. Tis been done before in protests.
> I have a problem with a burqa ban but if they're going to be legal it should also be legal to mock and insult all those who choose to wear one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing masks at a protest is illegal in NYC
Click to expand...


Is that law still enforced?


----------



## PoliticalChic

Father Time said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Father Time said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to be anonymous than try a mask. Tis been done before in protests.
> I have a problem with a burqa ban but if they're going to be legal it should also be legal to mock and insult all those who choose to wear one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing masks at a protest is illegal in NYC
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is that law still enforced?
Click to expand...


"In 1845, the State of New York passed a law which forbade the wearing of masks. It authorized the pursuit and arrest of anyone who having his face painted, discolored, covered or concealed, or being otherwise disguised, in a manner calculated to prevent him from being identified, shall appear in any road or public highway, or in any field, lot, wood, or enclosure. It was originally adopted to thwart armed insurrections by Hudson Valley tenant farmers who dressed and painted themselves as Native Americans to attack law enforcement officers over rent issues. The law was then shelved for most of the 20th Century until 1965, when it was used to criminalize transvestites and drag queens who wore too much make-up for the authorities to bear.

More recently, the law has resurfaced in two contexts: At a KKK rally in 2001 and during the large-scale protests of the World Economic Forum (WEF) at the Waldorf Astoria Hotel in January 2002... (read more)"
Slingshot! Current Issue...

New York Penal Law § 240.35(4)
http://wings.buffalo.edu/law/bclc/web/Ne...


----------



## Gurdari

adeel_sami said:


> Okay, put the burqa issue aside and pardon me taking my subject off topic..
> 
> The victim in the case of France, is a muslim woman.
> 
> I have to enlighten up the case of Saudi's women who cant go outside alone. Without the company of her male relatives (brother, father and husband), they are not allowed.
> 
> If we are really so concerned about the muslim women, why dont we take out real problems they are facing ?
> In Saudi's case, state is a muslim state, Govt is muslim, legislators and legislations are muslim, nation is muslim, men are muslims, women are muslims .. And that such unjust in a muslim states with the muslim nation is really wrong. ..
> 
> Where the muslims are not spare from their muslim care takers .. Why are we that concerned for the muslim wowen of a christian state ??



Well there are many things to address if we want to discuss equality, but just because one place is 'worse' doesn't make it okay to be stupid in France...

And is Saudi Arabia REALLY that Islamic? I thought there was a King/royal family there... and that seems un-Islamic to me, correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no such thing as 'royal' or 'divine' blood is there?


Sort of like China calling itself communist when it has millionaires and poor people...


----------



## sealybobo

Gurdari said:


> adeel_sami said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, put the burqa issue aside and pardon me taking my subject off topic..
> 
> The victim in the case of France, is a muslim woman.
> 
> I have to enlighten up the case of Saudi's women who cant go outside alone. Without the company of her male relatives (brother, father and husband), they are not allowed.
> 
> If we are really so concerned about the muslim women, why dont we take out real problems they are facing ?
> In Saudi's case, state is a muslim state, Govt is muslim, legislators and legislations are muslim, nation is muslim, men are muslims, women are muslims .. And that such unjust in a muslim states with the muslim nation is really wrong. ..
> 
> Where the muslims are not spare from their muslim care takers .. Why are we that concerned for the muslim wowen of a christian state ??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well there are many things to address if we want to discuss equality, but just because one place is 'worse' doesn't make it okay to be stupid in France...
> 
> And is Saudi Arabia REALLY that Islamic? I thought there was a King/royal family there... and that seems un-Islamic to me, correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no such thing as 'royal' or 'divine' blood is there?
> 
> 
> Sort of like China calling itself communist when it has millionaires and poor people...
Click to expand...


Or like when Conservatives who know rich people own this country call America socialist.  

Hey, we feel uncomfortable with burka's.  I say ban them.

And we are finding out that muslim women only wear them because their men force them to.  Banning them would be something I support because they kill us over there for being christian, yet they come over and flaunt their shit in our face.  And they made UofM Dearborn campus install foot bath's in the bathrooms.  They were washing their feet in the bathroom sinks.  So we bend for them all the time and they don't assimilate with us.  And they live here tax free and still side with Bin Ladin.  Fuck them!  Take off the fucking burka or go back to Saudi Arabia.  

You can't wear a ski mask into court, can you?  

You can't go out in your underwear, can you?  

So ban burka's.


----------



## Anguille

sealybobo said:


> Hey, we feel uncomfortable with burka's.  I say ban them.
> .


Hey, we feel uncomfortable with sealybobo's.  I say ban them.


----------



## Liability

*Sarkozy says burqas are 'not welcome' in France* 

*Al Qaeda says Sarkozy 'not welcome' on Earth.*


----------



## adeel_sami

Yes, you're right ....... 

Things we see, are not equal ... 

And debate will keep going on and on because there're thousands of things that need to be discussed ......

And I think am done on this issue as I clearly described what I thought about the ban on burka ..... 

Peace ...


----------



## Yasmin

The discussion about Sarkozy is very hot here in France. Indeed he's received as a racist, thats why he won election. He made rebell the whites against blacks and arabs, as last solution to win his election. Telling everyone to leave the country if they're not happy here. But honestly how can you be happy in a country that practises violence, separation, segragation, racism etc and all other forms of -ion and -ism.  I notice that daily, I even ask myself if the situation is worse here or there in the US? I think there just more treacherous here.


----------



## nia588

sealybobo said:


> Or like when Conservatives who know rich people own this country call America socialist.
> 
> *Hey, we feel uncomfortable with burka's.  I say ban them.*
> 
> *And we are finding out that muslim women only wear them because their men force them to. * Banning them would be something I support because* they kill us over there for being christian*, yet they come over and flaunt their shit in our face.  And they made UofM Dearborn campus install foot bath's in the bathrooms.  They were washing their feet in the bathroom sinks.  So we bend for them all the time and they don't assimilate with us.  *And they live here tax free and still side with Bin Ladin*.  Fuck them! * Take off the fucking burka or go back to Saudi Arabia.*
> 
> You can't wear a ski mask into court, can you?
> 
> You can't go out in your underwear, can you?
> 
> So ban burka's.



The first point i'd like to bring up is that just because you feel uncomfortable around someone wearing a certain piece of clothing doesn't it make it a right to ban it. i personally feel uncomfortable with some of these men walking around with no shirt on or with their draws hanging out or these women wearing these short shorts with fat haning out. but hey it's a free country so they can do whatever.

secondly, Most (and i say most because there is a minority of Muslim women who wear niqab because their fathers or husbands force them to wear it) muslim women choose to wear niqab. they don't wear it because of a man. they do it because they want to. i know many muslim women who choose the wear the niqab and they love it. many of them are actually american convert women. and even my arab friends who wear it they started wearing because they felt as though it was the right choice for them. so to say Muslim women wear because men force them is wrong. i know of woman who was forced to dress in revealing clothes and high heels all the time by her man and she was a good ol christian. but that's not to say all women who dress in revealing clothing are forced to wear it.


thirdly, where are getting that christians get killed in the mid east? I lived in the mid east for 11 years. and no one is killing any christians in fact they got churches all over the freakin place. and even in saudi where they don't have churches they are not killing any Christians.

fourthly, ummm are you that ignorant? living tax free? are you for real? Muslims have to pay taxes just like everyone else. everyone Muslim I know who lives in the United States pay their taxes everywhere.

lastly, you are assuming that women who wear burka are all arab. whereas that's not the case. there are tons of American and European women who choose to wear the face veil. just go to a city like Philly and you'll tons of homegrown American women walking around in niqab.


----------



## Anguille

Yasmin said:


> The discussion about Sarkozy is very hot here in France. Indeed he's received as a racist, thats why he won election. He made rebell the whites against blacks and arabs, as last solution to win his election. Telling everyone to leave the country if they're not happy here. But honestly how can you be happy in a country that practises violence, separation, segragation, racism etc and all other forms of -ion and -ism.  I notice that daily, I even ask myself if the situation is worse here or there in the US? I think there just more treacherous here.


Yasmin, are you in France or Germany? Your location indicates Germany.

France is country of contradictions. I lived in France for a few years and though I think the French are becoming less racist I think the situation there is still worse than it is in the US. 

For one thing, the French often have a hard time even admitting they could be racist. At least the US acknowledges the problem exists. 

Sarko is an idiot.


----------



## Anguille

nia588 said:


> secondly, Most (and i say most because there is a minority of Muslim women who wear niqab because their fathers or husbands force them to wear it) muslim women choose to wear niqab. they don't wear it because of a man. they do it because they want to. i know many muslim women who choose the wear the niqab and they love it. many of them are actually american convert women. and even my arab friends who wear it they started wearing because they felt as though it was the right choice for them. so to say Muslim women wear because men force them is wrong. i know of woman who was forced to dress in revealing clothes and high heels all the time by her man and she was a good ol christian. but that's not to say all women who dress in revealing clothing are forced to wear it.



Yeah, the hijab issue is not well understood by a lot of people, not excluding myself.

 I think it's because it went so quickly from being a symbol of oppression in some people's eyes to becoming a symbol of Muslim women expressing their pride in being Muslim and refusing to be made to think they are being submissive when they wear it. The only Muslim female friend I have who currently wears one did not wear one when she was growing up nor did her mother. She had a sort of religious awakening a few years ago after experiencing a difficult period in her life. Her 11 year old daughter shows no signs of wanting to start wearing hijab and her parents have no intention of forcing her to. They believe their children must truly want to join them in their religion and not feel they have to just to please their parents. That would not indicate true faith in their eyes.


----------



## Yasmin

Anguille said:


> Yasmin said:
> 
> 
> 
> The discussion about Sarkozy is very hot here in France. Indeed he's received as a racist, thats why he won election. He made rebell the whites against blacks and arabs, as last solution to win his election. Telling everyone to leave the country if they're not happy here. But honestly how can you be happy in a country that practises violence, separation, segragation, racism etc and all other forms of -ion and -ism.  I notice that daily, I even ask myself if the situation is worse here or there in the US? I think there just more treacherous here.
> 
> 
> 
> Yasmin, are you in France or Germany? Your location indicates Germany.
> 
> France is country of contradictions. I lived in France for a few years and though I think the French are becoming less racist I think the situation there is still worse than it is in the US.
> 
> For one thing, the French often have a hard time even admitting they could be racist. At least the US acknowledges the problem exists.
> 
> Sarko is an idiot.
Click to expand...


Hey thanks for your answer, no I am originally from Germany, but have been living in France for two years now, paris and nice. That interests me, tell me please why do you think there is less racism in France than in the us?


----------



## Yasmin

ah ok i see you agree that there is more racism in france. yeah thats definitely right, but, how did you get to know this? which indicators?


----------



## JakeStarkey

sealybobo said:


> Gurdari said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> adeel_sami said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, put the burqa issue aside and pardon me taking my subject off topic..
> 
> The victim in the case of France, is a muslim woman.
> 
> I have to enlighten up the case of Saudi's women who cant go outside alone. Without the company of her male relatives (brother, father and husband), they are not allowed.
> 
> If we are really so concerned about the muslim women, why dont we take out real problems they are facing ?
> In Saudi's case, state is a muslim state, Govt is muslim, legislators and legislations are muslim, nation is muslim, men are muslims, women are muslims .. And that such unjust in a muslim states with the muslim nation is really wrong. ..
> 
> Where the muslims are not spare from their muslim care takers .. Why are we that concerned for the muslim wowen of a christian state ??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well there are many things to address if we want to discuss equality, but just because one place is 'worse' doesn't make it okay to be stupid in France...
> 
> And is Saudi Arabia REALLY that Islamic? I thought there was a King/royal family there... and that seems un-Islamic to me, correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no such thing as 'royal' or 'divine' blood is there?
> 
> 
> Sort of like China calling itself communist when it has millionaires and poor people...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or like when Conservatives who know rich people own this country call America socialist.
> 
> Hey, we feel uncomfortable with burka's.  I say ban them.
> 
> And we are finding out that muslim women only wear them because their men force them to.  Banning them would be something I support because they kill us over there for being christian, yet they come over and flaunt their shit in our face.  And they made UofM Dearborn campus install foot bath's in the bathrooms.  They were washing their feet in the bathroom sinks.  So we bend for them all the time and they don't assimilate with us.  And they live here tax free and still side with Bin Ladin.  Fuck them!  Take off the fucking burka or go back to Saudi Arabia.
> 
> You can't wear a ski mask into court, can you?
> 
> You can't go out in your underwear, can you?
> 
> So ban burka's.
Click to expand...


Never attribute to malice to sealybobo that which is adequately explained by stupidity.


----------



## Anguille

Yasmin said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yasmin said:
> 
> 
> 
> The discussion about Sarkozy is very hot here in France. Indeed he's received as a racist, thats why he won election. He made rebell the whites against blacks and arabs, as last solution to win his election. Telling everyone to leave the country if they're not happy here. But honestly how can you be happy in a country that practises violence, separation, segragation, racism etc and all other forms of -ion and -ism.  I notice that daily, I even ask myself if the situation is worse here or there in the US? I think there just more treacherous here.
> 
> 
> 
> Yasmin, are you in France or Germany? Your location indicates Germany.
> 
> France is country of contradictions. I lived in France for a few years and though I think the French are becoming less racist I think the situation there is still worse than it is in the US.
> 
> For one thing, the French often have a hard time even admitting they could be racist. At least the US acknowledges the problem exists.
> 
> Sarko is an idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey thanks for your answer, no I am originally from Germany, but have been living in France for two years now, paris and nice. That interests me, tell me please why do you think there is less racism in France than in the us?
Click to expand...

You misread my post. I believe France has a* worse* problem with racism than the US.


----------



## Anguille

Yasmin said:


> ah ok i see you agree that there is more racism in france. yeah thats definitely right, but, how did you get to know this? which indicators?


Oh. Nevermind my post above. 

I haven't much time to day but will try to get back to you later in the week. It's an interesting subject.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

The burkha and jihab are the same thing as a klan hood or a nazi uniform, hate speech met to intimidate.
if you dont wear one in Islamic ghettos  you are considered a whore .


----------



## nia588

Mr.Fitnah said:


> The burkha and jihab are the same thing as a klan hood or a nazi uniform, hate speech met to intimidate.
> if you dont wear one in Islamic ghettos  you are considered a whore .



*that's nonsense. explain how is a headscarf or niqab intimidating and hateful? there are Jewish people who wear religious clothing. sikhs wear a turban. even some christian women cover their heads.

it's only people's bigotry which views Muslim women dress as hateful.*


----------



## L.K.Eder

Mr.Fitnah said:


> The burkha and jihab are the same thing as a klan hood or a nazi uniform, hate speech met to intimidate.
> if you dont wear one in Islamic ghettos  you are considered a whore .



jihab, huh?


----------



## Liability

L.K.Eder said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The burkha and jihab are the same thing as a klan hood or a nazi uniform, hate speech met to intimidate.
> if you dont wear one in Islamic ghettos  you are considered a whore .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jihab, huh?
Click to expand...


It is the hijab for jihads, perhaps?


----------



## Liability

Check it out.

India TV :: World News >> French Ban Burka + Bikini Burkini Swimsuit


----------



## Mr.Fitnah




----------



## Mr.Fitnah

nia588 said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The burkha and jihab are the same thing as a klan hood or a nazi uniform, hate speech met to intimidate.
> if you dont wear one in Islamic ghettos  you are considered a whore .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *that's nonsense. explain how is a headscarf or niqab intimidating and hateful? there are Jewish people who wear religious clothing. sikhs wear a turban. even some christian women cover their heads.
> 
> it's only people's bigotry which views Muslim women dress as hateful.*
Click to expand...

Do not try to equate objecting to Islams supremacy ideology to bigotry .


----------



## PoliticalChic

Father Time said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> A burka is a blessing when you're having a bad hair day and nothing decent to wear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or you could just wear a hat.
Click to expand...


A Muslim woman garbed in a head-to-toe swimsuit - dubbed a "burquini" - may have opened a new chapter in France's tussle between religious practices and its stern secular code. 

Officials say they banned the woman's use of the Islam-friendly suit at a local pool because of France's pool hygiene standards - not out of hostility to overtly Muslim garb.

Under the policy, swimmers are not allowed in pools with baggy clothing, including surfer-style shorts. Only figure-hugging suits are permitted.

Nonetheless the woman, a 35-year-old convert to Islam identified only as Carole, complained of religious discrimination after trying to go swimming in a "burquini," a full-body swimsuit, in the town of Emerainville, southeast of Paris.

She was quoted as telling the daily Le Parisien newspaper that she had bought the burquini after deciding "it would allow me the pleasure of bathing without showing too much of myself, as Islam recommends."

"For me this is nothing but segregation," she said.

The issue of religious attire is a hot topic in France, where head-to-toe burqas or other full-body coverings worn by some Muslim fundamentalists are in official disfavour.

French pool bans Muslim swimwear | Stuff.co.nz


----------



## PoliticalChic

nia588 said:


> thirdly, where are getting that christians get killed in the mid east? I lived in the mid east for 11 years. and no one is killing any christians in fact they got churches all over the freakin place. and even in saudi where they don't have churches they are not killing any Christians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One Thousand Christian Men, Women & Children Tortured by Police in a Period of 30 Days
> Egypt jails two Christian Human-Rights activists for "defaming Islam"
> 3 Christian churches in Egypt attacked on Easter Sunday
> Christian Girls Kidnapped In Egypt And Forced To Convert To Islam
> Christian Girl Escapes Muslim Kidnappers
> Persecuting Egypt's Christians
> Four Christians arrested in Egypt
> Egyptian government openly discriminates the Christians of Egypt
> Confessions of a Former Islamist who used to lure Christian girls into Islam through deceptive methods
> Faith Under Fire in Egypt
> Coptic Christian Killed in Knife Raids on Egypt Churches
> 22 Christians Arrested in Egyptian Crackdown on Converts
> Extremists attack Coptic Christians
> Two Copts die from injuries from attacks in Udaysat
> Protestant Pastor Killed in Egypt after Threats
> Christian Woman Tortured for Helping Converts Change their ID Cards
> Egypt Christians Persecution Profile
> Christian cobbler knifed for Offhand Comment
> More Egyptian girls forced to convert to Islam
> Christian convert from Islam jailed
> Convert Arrested for Marrying Christian
> Egyptian Christians Sent to Prison after Brutal Police Raid
> Rumor Leads To Attack On Christians
> Copt Leaving Sanctuary Knifed In Minya; Bomb Explodes Near Venerable Structure In Cairo
> Egypt's Christians Protest Forced Conversion of Children
> Muslim Attacks Church and Sexually Molests a Coptic Girl
> Thousands of Muslims Attack Coptic Church, Barricading 800 Christians Inside
> Muslims Kill 1 Worshiper In Church Attacks, Nearly Beheading Another and Leaving 23 Injured
> Churches And Christians Attacked By Muslim Mob Shouting Anti-West Slogans, Injuring 2
> Mob of 300 Muslims Kill Six Christians, Leaving 15 Others Seriously Wounded
> Muslim Militants Kill Evangelist; More Violence Feared
> Muslims Gun Down Two Christians Building a Church
> Mob rampages to ensure non-Muslim businesses close for Ramadan
> Christians in Indonesia Flee Their Homes as Attacks Spread
> Muslim mob closes Christian church in Indonesia
> Mob Destroys Church in South Sulawesi
> Authorities close 17 Churches in Islamic Shariah Province Aceh
> Three Christian Women Jailed For Inviting Muslim Children to Church Activities
> Police have ordered the closure of 2 Churches in West Java
> Christian Villages Burn Again in Central Indonesia
> More Violence against Christians in Sulawesi, Over 2,000 people evacuated
> Catholic Church Compound under Jihad Militant Attack
> Islamic Forces Surround 50,000 Indonesian Christians
> Blast Hits Churches Across Iraq, 11 Dead & 75 Injured
> Christian Killed in Iraq in Response to Pope Benedict XVI Speech
> Kidnappers Demand Huge Ransom for Bishop
> Serial Attacks on Churches Continue
> Gunmen Kill Christians in Kirkuk
> Targeted by Death Squads: Campaign of "Sexual Cleansing" Has Led to Executions of Many Homosexuals
> Another Priest Feared Kidnapped
> Kidnappers Murder Church Elder in Mosul
> Islamic Group Beheads Assyrian Priest, Crucifies 14 Year Old Boy in North Iraq
> Christian Sisters Slain in Robbery Attempt
> Baghdad Christians Flee Forced Conversion
> Assailants Gun Down Priest, Deacons
> Christians Targeted in Baghdad
> Enraged Muslim Chops Off Christian's Arm
> Pakistani Christian-Falsely Accused, Tortured and Murdered Protestors Take His Dead Body To The Streets In Protest
> Another Christian Child Raped in Pakistan
> Nine Year Old Christian Girl Sexually Assaulted as Punishment for War in Iraq
> Pakistani Priest Gunned Down
> Pakistani Christian dies of torture at hands of Islamists
> Second Pakistani Christian tortured to death by police in four months
> Christian persecution in Pakistan - Reports
> 55 year Christian mother Hanifan Bibi abducted, stripped and tortured in front of husband and sons by Muslim gangsters.
> Christians besieged in Pakistan
> Pastor and Driver Murdered in Pakistan and Multilated for Evangelising Muslims in Pakistan
> 2 Christians arrested for blasphemy charge, despite the lack of witnesses
> 2500 Strong Muslim Mob set alight 3 Churces, Christian School, Houses of Christian families and Priests
> More blasphemy law violence against Christians in Pakistan
> Pakistan Hindu girls forced to convert to Islam
> Hamas Forcibly Converted Christian Woman to Islam
> Director of Gaza's Only Christian Bookstore - Publicly Tortured and Stabbed, Before Being Shot to Death
> Bible Society Center in Gaza Temporarily Closed after Threat
> Kidnapped Journalists  Centanni And Wiig - Forced To Convert To Islam At Gunpoint
> Christians under the Palestinian Authority Persecuted
> Christian Graves Desecrated In The West Bank
> Palestinians Burn Dozens of Holy Jewish Books
> Palestinians Beat and Rob Church Official and his Wife
> Christians Imprisoned, Beaten for Worship of Jesus
> Saudis arrest 40 Christians for praying
> Saudi Arabia Continues Crackdown on Christians
> Christians claim torture by Saudis
> Four Christians arrested in Saudi Arabia for praying at home
> More Christians arrested in Saudi Arabia raid.
> Christian Engineer Arrested in Saudi Arabia
> Indian Christian Arrested, Tortured in Saudi Arabia
> Tortured Indian Christian before Islamic Court in Saudi Arabia
> Saudi jailed for discussing the Bible
> Two Filipino Christians Beheaded
> 
> Persecution of non-Muslims - WikiIslam
Click to expand...


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

August 16, 2009

Nigeria: Jihadists demolish 20 churches, murder three pastors
And as always, the world yawns. Yet just consider the international publicity, and outcry, this would provoke if the perpetrators and victims were reversed.

"3 pastors killed, 20 churches demolished in Nigeria violence," from the Baptist Press, August 13 (thanks to DFS):

MAIDUGURI, Nigeria (BP)--Twelve Christians, including three pastors, were killed and 20 churches were demolished in Nigeria amid escalating religiously motivated violence, prompting a call for government intervention.
Conflicts between Christians and Muslims have gone largely unchecked by the Nigerian government, and the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom this year placed the African nation on its list of "countries of particular concern."

International Christian Concern, a U.S.-based human rights group, is asking people to sign a petition calling on Nigerian officials to bring perpetrators to justice and work to prevent further attacks. The petition is accessible at persecution.org/suffering/petitions. ICC also is asking concerned citizens to contact the Nigerian Embassy in Washington at 202-986-8400.

In a report Aug. 6, ICC said the attacks that occurred July 26 in Maiduguri were instigated by Boko Haram, a group that opposes Western education and fights to impose sharia law throughout Nigeria, including areas that are largely Christian.

Sabo Yakubu, a husband, father of seven and pastor of a Church of Christ congregation, was hacked to death by a machete, ICC said. Also killed were Sylvester Akpan, pastor of National Evangelical Mission, and George Orji, pastor of Good News of Christ Church.

"Mohammed Yusuf, the Islamic sect leader who initially said their targets were government property and security agencies, later changed and started setting ablaze churches and killing pastors who had nothing to do with their activities," Yuguda Zubagai Ndurvuwa, chairman of the Christian Association of Nigeria, said in a statement reported by ICC....


----------



## nia588

PoliticalChic said:


> nia588 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thirdly, where are getting that christians get killed in the mid east? I lived in the mid east for 11 years. and no one is killing any christians in fact they got churches all over the freakin place. and even in saudi where they don't have churches they are not killing any Christians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One Thousand Christian Men, Women & Children Tortured by Police in a Period of 30 Days
> Egypt jails two Christian Human-Rights activists for "defaming Islam"
> 3 Christian churches in Egypt attacked on Easter Sunday
> Christian Girls Kidnapped In Egypt And Forced To Convert To Islam
> Christian Girl Escapes Muslim Kidnappers
> Persecuting Egypt's Christians
> Four Christians arrested in Egypt
> Egyptian government openly discriminates the Christians of Egypt
> Confessions of a Former Islamist who used to lure Christian girls into Islam through deceptive methods
> Faith Under Fire in Egypt
> Coptic Christian Killed in Knife Raids on Egypt Churches
> 22 Christians Arrested in Egyptian Crackdown on Converts
> Extremists attack Coptic Christians
> Two Copts die from injuries from attacks in Udaysat
> Protestant Pastor Killed in Egypt after Threats
> Christian Woman Tortured for Helping Converts Change their ID Cards
> Egypt Christians Persecution Profile
> Christian cobbler knifed for Offhand Comment
> More Egyptian girls forced to convert to Islam
> Christian convert from Islam jailed
> Convert Arrested for Marrying Christian
> Egyptian Christians Sent to Prison after Brutal Police Raid
> Rumor Leads To Attack On Christians
> Copt Leaving Sanctuary Knifed In Minya; Bomb Explodes Near Venerable Structure In Cairo
> Egypt's Christians Protest Forced Conversion of Children
> Muslim Attacks Church and Sexually Molests a Coptic Girl
> Thousands of Muslims Attack Coptic Church, Barricading 800 Christians Inside
> Muslims Kill 1 Worshiper In Church Attacks, Nearly Beheading Another and Leaving 23 Injured
> Churches And Christians Attacked By Muslim Mob Shouting Anti-West Slogans, Injuring 2
> Mob of 300 Muslims Kill Six Christians, Leaving 15 Others Seriously Wounded
> Muslim Militants Kill Evangelist; More Violence Feared
> Muslims Gun Down Two Christians Building a Church
> Mob rampages to ensure non-Muslim businesses close for Ramadan
> Christians in Indonesia Flee Their Homes as Attacks Spread
> Muslim mob closes Christian church in Indonesia
> Mob Destroys Church in South Sulawesi
> Authorities close 17 Churches in Islamic Shariah Province Aceh
> Three Christian Women Jailed For Inviting Muslim Children to Church Activities
> Police have ordered the closure of 2 Churches in West Java
> Christian Villages Burn Again in Central Indonesia
> More Violence against Christians in Sulawesi, Over 2,000 people evacuated
> Catholic Church Compound under Jihad Militant Attack
> Islamic Forces Surround 50,000 Indonesian Christians
> Blast Hits Churches Across Iraq, 11 Dead & 75 Injured
> Christian Killed in Iraq in Response to Pope Benedict XVI Speech
> Kidnappers Demand Huge Ransom for Bishop
> Serial Attacks on Churches Continue
> Gunmen Kill Christians in Kirkuk
> Targeted by Death Squads: Campaign of "Sexual Cleansing" Has Led to Executions of Many Homosexuals
> Another Priest Feared Kidnapped
> Kidnappers Murder Church Elder in Mosul
> Islamic Group Beheads Assyrian Priest, Crucifies 14 Year Old Boy in North Iraq
> Christian Sisters Slain in Robbery Attempt
> Baghdad Christians Flee Forced Conversion
> Assailants Gun Down Priest, Deacons
> Christians Targeted in Baghdad
> Enraged Muslim Chops Off Christian's Arm
> Pakistani Christian-Falsely Accused, Tortured and Murdered Protestors Take His Dead Body To The Streets In Protest
> Another Christian Child Raped in Pakistan
> Nine Year Old Christian Girl Sexually Assaulted as Punishment for War in Iraq
> Pakistani Priest Gunned Down
> Pakistani Christian dies of torture at hands of Islamists
> Second Pakistani Christian tortured to death by police in four months
> Christian persecution in Pakistan - Reports
> 55 year Christian mother Hanifan Bibi abducted, stripped and tortured in front of husband and sons by Muslim gangsters.
> Christians besieged in Pakistan
> Pastor and Driver Murdered in Pakistan and Multilated for Evangelising Muslims in Pakistan
> 2 Christians arrested for blasphemy charge, despite the lack of witnesses
> 2500 Strong Muslim Mob set alight 3 Churces, Christian School, Houses of Christian families and Priests
> More blasphemy law violence against Christians in Pakistan
> Pakistan Hindu girls forced to convert to Islam
> Hamas Forcibly Converted Christian Woman to Islam
> Director of Gaza's Only Christian Bookstore - Publicly Tortured and Stabbed, Before Being Shot to Death
> Bible Society Center in Gaza Temporarily Closed after Threat
> Kidnapped Journalists  Centanni And Wiig - Forced To Convert To Islam At Gunpoint
> Christians under the Palestinian Authority Persecuted
> Christian Graves Desecrated In The West Bank
> Palestinians Burn Dozens of Holy Jewish Books
> Palestinians Beat and Rob Church Official and his Wife
> Christians Imprisoned, Beaten for Worship of Jesus
> Saudis arrest 40 Christians for praying
> Saudi Arabia Continues Crackdown on Christians
> Christians claim torture by Saudis
> Four Christians arrested in Saudi Arabia for praying at home
> More Christians arrested in Saudi Arabia raid.
> Christian Engineer Arrested in Saudi Arabia
> Indian Christian Arrested, Tortured in Saudi Arabia
> Tortured Indian Christian before Islamic Court in Saudi Arabia
> Saudi jailed for discussing the Bible
> Two Filipino Christians Beheaded
> 
> Persecution of non-Muslims - WikiIslam
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> these are isolated incidents. these incidents are not that common. it's only the media taking these incidents and making it out to be like it happens every day. i've lived in the mid east for 11 years. i've been living in the mid east since i was 10. i went to school with Muslims and Christians. they have churches. i agree that Saudi is very strict. but they do not make up the majority of the mid east. majority of mid east allows Christians to practice their religion.
> 
> if you want to get into incidents. i could tell you tons of stories of Muslims being attacked right here in America. I know one woman who became Muslim. and some people in her town shot out her windows. another indecent where a group of Muslim girls were attacked by these group of racist redneck. but do these incidents mean that as a nation America oppresses Muslims? no it doesn't mean that. but i will say this country is ignorant about what goes on the Middle east. if you were to just visit the mid east you'd be quite surprise at how open many of the countries are.
Click to expand...


----------



## mystic

Sarkozy banning burka is as bad as Taliban mandating them. So France wants to be like Iran and Saudi and institute dresscode?

The only problem I can see with burka is obtaining driver's license or being allowed to enter banks. But that is the choice they would have to make, neither are "rights". Choosing what to wear should be.


----------



## nia588

and you even in Islam it's haraam to tear down churches. there is a hadith which the prophet Muhammed (pbuh) states that churches and synagogues are to be left alone. so if a Muslim is tearing churches down they are going against what Islam says.


----------



## PoliticalChic

nia588 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nia588 said:
> 
> 
> 
> One Thousand Christian Men, Women & Children Tortured by Police in a Period of 30 Days
> Egypt jails two Christian Human-Rights activists for "defaming Islam"
> 3 Christian churches in Egypt attacked on Easter Sunday
> Christian Girls Kidnapped In Egypt And Forced To Convert To Islam
> Christian Girl Escapes Muslim Kidnappers
> Persecuting Egypt's Christians
> Four Christians arrested in Egypt
> Egyptian government openly discriminates the Christians of Egypt
> Confessions of a Former Islamist who used to lure Christian girls into Islam through deceptive methods
> Faith Under Fire in Egypt
> Coptic Christian Killed in Knife Raids on Egypt Churches
> 22 Christians Arrested in Egyptian Crackdown on Converts
> Extremists attack Coptic Christians
> Two Copts die from injuries from attacks in Udaysat
> Protestant Pastor Killed in Egypt after Threats
> Christian Woman Tortured for Helping Converts Change their ID Cards
> Egypt Christians Persecution Profile
> Christian cobbler knifed for Offhand Comment
> More Egyptian girls forced to convert to Islam
> Christian convert from Islam jailed
> Convert Arrested for Marrying Christian
> Egyptian Christians Sent to Prison after Brutal Police Raid
> Rumor Leads To Attack On Christians
> Copt Leaving Sanctuary Knifed In Minya; Bomb Explodes Near Venerable Structure In Cairo
> Egypt's Christians Protest Forced Conversion of Children
> Muslim Attacks Church and Sexually Molests a Coptic Girl
> Thousands of Muslims Attack Coptic Church, Barricading 800 Christians Inside
> Muslims Kill 1 Worshiper In Church Attacks, Nearly Beheading Another and Leaving 23 Injured
> Churches And Christians Attacked By Muslim Mob Shouting Anti-West Slogans, Injuring 2
> Mob of 300 Muslims Kill Six Christians, Leaving 15 Others Seriously Wounded
> Muslim Militants Kill Evangelist; More Violence Feared
> Muslims Gun Down Two Christians Building a Church
> Mob rampages to ensure non-Muslim businesses close for Ramadan
> Christians in Indonesia Flee Their Homes as Attacks Spread
> Muslim mob closes Christian church in Indonesia
> Mob Destroys Church in South Sulawesi
> Authorities close 17 Churches in Islamic Shariah Province Aceh
> Three Christian Women Jailed For Inviting Muslim Children to Church Activities
> Police have ordered the closure of 2 Churches in West Java
> Christian Villages Burn Again in Central Indonesia
> More Violence against Christians in Sulawesi, Over 2,000 people evacuated
> Catholic Church Compound under Jihad Militant Attack
> Islamic Forces Surround 50,000 Indonesian Christians
> Blast Hits Churches Across Iraq, 11 Dead & 75 Injured
> Christian Killed in Iraq in Response to Pope Benedict XVI Speech
> Kidnappers Demand Huge Ransom for Bishop
> Serial Attacks on Churches Continue
> Gunmen Kill Christians in Kirkuk
> Targeted by Death Squads: Campaign of "Sexual Cleansing" Has Led to Executions of Many Homosexuals
> Another Priest Feared Kidnapped
> Kidnappers Murder Church Elder in Mosul
> Islamic Group Beheads Assyrian Priest, Crucifies 14 Year Old Boy in North Iraq
> Christian Sisters Slain in Robbery Attempt
> Baghdad Christians Flee Forced Conversion
> Assailants Gun Down Priest, Deacons
> Christians Targeted in Baghdad
> Enraged Muslim Chops Off Christian's Arm
> Pakistani Christian-Falsely Accused, Tortured and Murdered Protestors Take His Dead Body To The Streets In Protest
> Another Christian Child Raped in Pakistan
> Nine Year Old Christian Girl Sexually Assaulted as Punishment for War in Iraq
> Pakistani Priest Gunned Down
> Pakistani Christian dies of torture at hands of Islamists
> Second Pakistani Christian tortured to death by police in four months
> Christian persecution in Pakistan - Reports
> 55 year Christian mother Hanifan Bibi abducted, stripped and tortured in front of husband and sons by Muslim gangsters.
> Christians besieged in Pakistan
> Pastor and Driver Murdered in Pakistan and Multilated for Evangelising Muslims in Pakistan
> 2 Christians arrested for blasphemy charge, despite the lack of witnesses
> 2500 Strong Muslim Mob set alight 3 Churces, Christian School, Houses of Christian families and Priests
> More blasphemy law violence against Christians in Pakistan
> Pakistan Hindu girls forced to convert to Islam
> Hamas Forcibly Converted Christian Woman to Islam
> Director of Gaza's Only Christian Bookstore - Publicly Tortured and Stabbed, Before Being Shot to Death
> Bible Society Center in Gaza Temporarily Closed after Threat
> Kidnapped Journalists &#8211; Centanni And Wiig - Forced To Convert To Islam At Gunpoint
> Christians under the Palestinian Authority Persecuted
> Christian Graves Desecrated In The West Bank
> Palestinians Burn Dozens of Holy Jewish Books
> Palestinians Beat and Rob Church Official and his Wife
> Christians Imprisoned, Beaten for Worship of Jesus
> Saudis arrest 40 Christians for praying
> Saudi Arabia Continues Crackdown on Christians
> Christians claim torture by Saudis
> Four Christians arrested in Saudi Arabia for praying at home
> More Christians arrested in Saudi Arabia raid.
> Christian Engineer Arrested in Saudi Arabia
> Indian Christian Arrested, Tortured in Saudi Arabia
> Tortured Indian Christian before Islamic Court in Saudi Arabia
> Saudi jailed for discussing the Bible
> Two Filipino Christians Beheaded
> 
> Persecution of non-Muslims - WikiIslam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> these are isolated incidents. these incidents are not that common. it's only the media taking these incidents and making it out to be like it happens every day. i've lived in the mid east for 11 years. i've been living in the mid east since i was 10. i went to school with Muslims and Christians. they have churches. i agree that Saudi is very strict. but they do not make up the majority of the mid east. majority of mid east allows Christians to practice their religion.
> 
> if you want to get into incidents. i could tell you tons of stories of Muslims being attacked right here in America. I know one woman who became Muslim. and some people in her town shot out her windows. another indecent where a group of Muslim girls were attacked by these group of racist redneck. but do these incidents mean that as a nation America oppresses Muslims? no it doesn't mean that. but i will say this country is ignorant about what goes on the Middle east. if you were to just visit the mid east you'd be quite surprise at how open many of the countries are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can't be serious.
> 
> The above list in my post is a fraction of the list I could post.
> 
> While no one is accusing you of having anything but the best of intentions, and you may apply same to all you know and love, but you must come to terms with the fact that there are several hundred million of your coreligionists who are savage and atavistic.
> 
> Now, don't tell me you "i could tell you tons of stories of Muslims being attacked right here in America" nonsense.
> 
> This is the most open and generous of nations. If there are folks such as you mention, they are numbered in the dozens, not millions.
> 
> Face facts.
> 
> And welcome.
Click to expand...


----------



## nia588

PoliticalChic said:


> nia588 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> these are isolated incidents. these incidents are not that common. it's only the media taking these incidents and making it out to be like it happens every day. i've lived in the mid east for 11 years. i've been living in the mid east since i was 10. i went to school with Muslims and Christians. they have churches. i agree that Saudi is very strict. but they do not make up the majority of the mid east. majority of mid east allows Christians to practice their religion.
> 
> if you want to get into incidents. i could tell you tons of stories of Muslims being attacked right here in America. I know one woman who became Muslim. and some people in her town shot out her windows. another indecent where a group of Muslim girls were attacked by these group of racist redneck. but do these incidents mean that as a nation America oppresses Muslims? no it doesn't mean that. but i will say this country is ignorant about what goes on the Middle east. if you were to just visit the mid east you'd be quite surprise at how open many of the countries are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't be serious.
> 
> The above list in my post is a fraction of the list I could post.
> 
> While no one is accusing you of having anything but the best of intentions, and you may apply same to all you know and love, but you must come to terms with the fact that there are several hundred million of your coreligionists who are savage and atavistic.
> 
> Now, don't tell me you "i could tell you tons of stories of Muslims being attacked right here in America" nonsense.
> 
> *This is the most open and generous of nations. If there are folks such as you mention, they are numbered in the dozens, not millions.*
> 
> Face facts.
> 
> And welcome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> are kidding me? you are really naive. millions of Muslims in this country are discriminated against. after 9/11 Muslims were treated like 2nd class citizens. i know people who can't even go through the airport without being "randomly" checked. and not just in America. But in Europe the treated of Muslims is worse. It's quite norm for Muslims in Europe to be attacked.
> 
> Yes this society is open. But it doesn't mean ignorant folks don't exist.
> 
> And im talking from experience. In the 11 years of living in the Mid east i've never seen a christian being mistreated. in fact there a tons of Americans that come to the mid east to work. my parents came over to the mid east to work. So if it was that bad why would American Christians even come here to work.
> 
> my point is that you find bad apples in every bunch.
Click to expand...


----------



## Sunni Man

Nia588 is correct

I know of and hear stories all of the time from Muslims who have been victimized and abused in this country.

Most of these incidents are never reported in the news.


----------



## PoliticalChic

nia588 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nia588 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can't be serious.
> 
> The above list in my post is a fraction of the list I could post.
> 
> While no one is accusing you of having anything but the best of intentions, and you may apply same to all you know and love, but you must come to terms with the fact that there are several hundred million of your coreligionists who are savage and atavistic.
> 
> Now, don't tell me you "i could tell you tons of stories of Muslims being attacked right here in America" nonsense.
> 
> *This is the most open and generous of nations. If there are folks such as you mention, they are numbered in the dozens, not millions.*
> 
> Face facts.
> 
> And welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> are kidding me? you are really naive. millions of Muslims in this country are discriminated against. after 9/11 Muslims were treated like 2nd class citizens. i know people who can't even go through the airport without being "randomly" checked. and not just in America. But in Europe the treated of Muslims is worse. It's quite norm for Muslims in Europe to be attacked.
> 
> Yes this society is open. But it doesn't mean ignorant folks don't exist.
> 
> And im talking from experience. In the 11 years of living in the Mid east i've never seen a christian being mistreated. in fact there a tons of Americans that come to the mid east to work. my parents came over to the mid east to work. So if it was that bad why would American Christians even come here to work.
> 
> my point is that you find bad apples in every bunch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First, you must learn how to use the quote system: you have mine as yours and yours as mine. Please correct same.
> 
> Now, as for your post, it is beyond silly, it is a fabrication, a self-serving purposeful misunderstanding of the facts.
> 
> ' i know people who can't even go through the airport without being "randomly" checked.'
> We all do. See if you can guess why.
> 
> I, and others have listed above murders, beheadings, maimings, arson, beatings, etc.
> 
> For you to claim that these events happen here borders on the psychotic.
> 
> Clearly, you feel badly about some of your coreligionists, but if the shoe doesn't fit, don't try to wear it.  And certainly don't concoct myths about the United States.
> 
> Either list a comparable series of events in number or kind, complete with documentation, or have the good grace to issue an apology to the great and noble country in which you find yourself.
Click to expand...


----------



## PoliticalChic

Sunni Man said:


> Nia588 is correct
> 
> I know of and hear stories all of the time from Muslims who have been victimized and abused in this country.
> 
> Most of these incidents are never reported in the news.



Sunni!

So, they removed the IV, and returned the belt and shoelaces?

I was really worried about you after the Yankee series. Congrats on the recovery.

No, Nia is not correct.

I listed about a hundred documented incidents involving beheadings, official persecution, arson, maiming, beatings, etc. and your equivocation is that some imagined wave of same on Muslims in the US goes unreported???

So, what is this underground 'samizdat' that Islamic folk have that records and forwards news of these attacks?

Does it involve, like, the 4th dimension or 6th sense or something?


----------



## Sunni Man

I have to agree

The Red Sox look kind of pitiful this year


----------



## L.K.Eder

PoliticalChic said:


> First, you must learn how to use the quote system: you have mine as yours and yours as mine. Please correct same.
> 
> ...



The quote misattribution was started by your formatting error in post #97.
All subsequent errors were just quotes of your source post.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

PoliticalChic said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nia588 is correct
> 
> I know of and hear stories all of the time from Muslims who have been victimized and abused in this country.
> 
> Most of these incidents are never reported in the news.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni!
> 
> So, they removed the IV, and returned the belt and shoelaces?
> 
> I was really worried about you after the Yankee series. Congrats on the recovery.
> 
> No, Nia is not correct.
> 
> I listed about a hundred documented incidents involving beheadings, official persecution, arson, maiming, beatings, etc. and your equivocation is that some imagined wave of same on Muslims in the US goes unreported???
> 
> So, what is this underground 'samizdat' that Islamic folk have that records and forwards news of these attacks?
> 
> Does it involve, like, the 4th dimension or 6th sense or something?
Click to expand...

He  thinks he is going to get rich trading in  the horseshit he posts, like there is a horseshit commodities market.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

nia588 said:


> and you even in Islam it's haraam to tear down churches. there is a hadith which the prophet Muhammed (pbuh) states that churches and synagogues are to be left alone. so if a Muslim is tearing churches down they are going against what Islam says.



2:193.  
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)  
The Noble Quran : Surat 2

let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn 
let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn 
let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn 
let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Erasing crosses and other symbols of Kufr
Is it permissible to use clothing or other things on which are drawn six-pointed stars (the &#8220;Star of David&#8221 or crosses?

Praise be to Allaah.

Al-Bukhaari narrated in his Saheeh from &#8216;Aa&#8217;ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) would never leave anything in his house on which there were any crosses without erasing them or &#8211; according to another report &#8211;cutting them out.

This hadeeth indicates that if the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) saw a cross on something, he would not leave it without blotting it out, or cutting it out if it was still visible after blotting it out, because the cross is something that is worshipped instead of Allaah, and its presence is something objectionable (munkar) which must be changed. This is a summary of what was said by Al-Haafiz in Al-Fath.

It was also reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

&#8220;Whoever among you sees an evil action (munkar), let him change it with his hand [by taking action], and if he cannot, then with his tongue [by speaking out], and if he cannot, then with his heart [by feeling that it is wrong], and that is the weakest of faith.&#8221; (Narrated by Muslim).

Muslim also narrated that Abu&#8217;l-Hayaaj al-Asadi said: &#8220; &#8216;Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) said to me: &#8216;Shall I not send you on the same mission that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) sent me? Do not leave any image without blotting it out and do not leave any built-up grave without levelling it.&#8217;&#8221;

These two ahaadeeth indicate that it is obligatory to change, remove or blot out any objectionable thing (munkar). The symbols of kufr (including the six-pointed star) are included in this, so they must be removed and wiped out. And Allaah knows best.


Masaa&#8217;il wa Rasaa&#8217;il by Muhammad al-Mahmood al-Najdi, p. 17

Islam Question and Answer - Erasing crosses and other symbols of Kufr


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

9:111. Verily, Allâh has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties; for the price that theirs shall be the Paradise. They fight in Allâh's Cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) and the Qur'ân. And who is truer to his covenant than Allâh? Then rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded. That is the supreme success[].

9:112. (The believers whose lives Allâh has purchased are) those who repent to Allâh (from polytheism and hypocrisy, etc.), who worship Him, who praise Him, who fast (or go out in Allâh's Cause), who bow down (in prayer), who prostrate themselves (in prayer), who enjoin (people) for Al-Ma'rûf (i.e. Islâmic Monotheism and all what Islâm has ordained) and forbid (people) from Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism of all kinds and all that Islâm has forbidden), and who observe the limits set by Allâh (do all that Allâh has ordained and abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which Allâh has forbidden). And give glad tidings to the believers


----------



## nia588

PoliticalChic said:


> First, you must learn how to use the quote system: you have mine as yours and yours as mine. Please correct same.
> 
> Now, as for your post, it is beyond silly, it is a fabrication, a self-serving purposeful misunderstanding of the facts.
> 
> ' i know people who can't even go through the airport without being "randomly" checked.'
> We all do. See if you can guess why.
> 
> I, and others have listed above murders, beheadings, maimings, arson, beatings, etc.
> 
> For you to claim that these events happen here borders on the psychotic.
> 
> Clearly, you feel badly about some of your coreligionists, but if the shoe doesn't fit, don't try to wear it.  And certainly don't concoct myths about the United States.
> 
> Either list a comparable series of events in number or kind, complete with documentation, or have the good grace to issue an apology to the great and noble country in which you find yourself.



first of all i didn't make up any myths about the united states. and like i said America is a open country that accepts all faiths,races and cultures. but that doesn't mean there are not any ignorant people. actually there are a lot of Americans ignorant not just about Islam and the middle east. but ignorant about the world in general. especially the conservatives in this country. and forget being discriminated against as a Muslim. As a black woman im still discriminated against because of the color of my skin in this country. I love America. But that doesn't mean we don't still face a lot of prejudice in this country.

and you can research the hate crimes against yourself. but here's a report since you want see some documentation.

Hate Crimes Against Arab Americans, Muslims, and Sikhs - Confronting the New Faces of Hate - Leadership Conference on Civil Rights


----------



## PoliticalChic

nia588 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> First, you must learn how to use the quote system: you have mine as yours and yours as mine. Please correct same.
> 
> Now, as for your post, it is beyond silly, it is a fabrication, a self-serving purposeful misunderstanding of the facts.
> 
> ' i know people who can't even go through the airport without being "randomly" checked.'
> We all do. See if you can guess why.
> 
> I, and others have listed above murders, beheadings, maimings, arson, beatings, etc.
> 
> For you to claim that these events happen here borders on the psychotic.
> 
> Clearly, you feel badly about some of your coreligionists, but if the shoe doesn't fit, don't try to wear it.  And certainly don't concoct myths about the United States.
> 
> Either list a comparable series of events in number or kind, complete with documentation, or have the good grace to issue an apology to the great and noble country in which you find yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> first of all i didn't make up any myths about the united states. and like i said America is a open country that accepts all faiths,races and cultures. but that doesn't mean there are not any ignorant people. actually there are a lot of Americans ignorant not just about Islam and the middle east. but ignorant about the world in general. especially the conservatives in this country. and forget being discriminated against as a Muslim. As a black woman im still discriminated against because of the color of my skin in this country. I love America. But that doesn't mean we don't still face a lot of prejudice in this country.
> 
> and you can research the hate crimes against yourself. but here's a report since you want see some documentation.
> 
> Hate Crimes Against Arab Americans, Muslims, and Sikhs - Confronting the New Faces of Hate - Leadership Conference on Civil Rights
Click to expand...


"... America is a open country that accepts all faiths,races and cultures."

"I love America."

Let's leave it right there.


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## Mr.Fitnah

nia588 said:


> first of all i didn't make up any myths about the united states. and like i said America is a open country that accepts all faiths,races and cultures. but that doesn't mean there are not any ignorant people. actually there are a lot of Americans ignorant not just about Islam and the middle east. but ignorant about the world in general. especially the conservatives in this country. and forget being discriminated against as a Muslim. As a black woman im still discriminated against because of the color of my skin in this country. I love America. But that doesn't mean we don't still face a lot of prejudice in this country.
> 
> and you can research the hate crimes against yourself. but here's a report since you want see some documentation.
> 
> Hate Crimes Against Arab Americans, Muslims, and Sikhs - Confronting the New Faces of Hate - Leadership Conference on Civil Rights


Utterly bogus  reports , general street crimes that are just crimes , and one unsubstantiated report a probable hoax.
hate crime hoax - Google Search


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## HUGGY

William Joyce said:


> Remember seeing a bitch in the full Muslim Monty at the Wal-Mart in Fairfax.  I swear to God I almost popped a neck vein.  I just wanted to knock her down and start screaming.  "Take that stupid shit off!"
> 
> It's like their walking around with their middle fingers extended to everyone's face.



Did she scare ya billy boy?


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## nia588

you know Mr.Fitnah i try to ignore you for a number of reason. 1 you speak without knowledge 2 you sit there in your arm chair copying and pasting Quran verses as if you are some type of expert on the Islam and the Quran 3 even when someone does explain something to you, you don't want to hear it.

Do you even know what tafseer is? Do you know that even people who are fluent in Arabic need to read tasfseer with the Quran because many of the verses need to be explained by people who have knowledge in classical Arabic.

you post these Quran verses without the tafseer (explanation of Quran). Nor do you post any hadiths which explain these verses. 

It takes people years to study the Quran and understand. yet you sit in your arm chair as if you know the Quran and Sunnah so well. Most Muslims (including myself) are not even experts on Islam.

As a person who was raised on Islam my parents never taught me to go out there killing infidels. in fact i was taught to respect people regardless of their faith i was never forced to wear hijab. in fact i didn't wear proper hijab until i decided to wear when i was 17. and many of my friends wear it because they chose to. and i have friends who do not wear it because they don't feel like wear it.

Islam is not this oppressive religion that everyone thinks it is.


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## Mr.Fitnah

Bukhari , Muslim,  Malik,  Dawud, Hadith Collection , The Tafsir of Ibn  kathir , Reliance of the traveller  , A classic  of Islamic sacred law and the The Noble Quran are sitting on my desk top , I aslo have a copy of Ishaq Al sira,  access to Tarikh al-Tabari collection online  and a subscription  to the Oxford Islamic studies online  .What is sitting  on yours?


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## Sunni Man

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Bukhari , Muslim,  Malik,  Dawud, Hadith Collection , The Tafsir of Ibn  kathir , Reliance of the traveller  , A classic  of Islamic sacred law and the The Noble Quran are sitting on my desk top.



Maybe you should turn off your computer and pick them up and read them.  

You might learn something


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## Mr.Fitnah

You do yourself no credit  by trying to demean me.


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## Sunni Man

Mr.Fitnah said:


> You do yourself no credit  by trying to demean me.


LOL!!!    Don't blame me Mr. Fitnuts

You continually demean yourself with your idiotic and bogus posts


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## Mr.Fitnah

Sunni Man said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> You do yourself no credit  by trying to demean me.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL!!!    Don't blame me Mr. Fitnuts
> 
> You continually demean yourself with your idiotic and bogus posts
Click to expand...

http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/81748-islam-forbids.html


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## bodecea

William Joyce said:


> Remember seeing a bitch in the full Muslim Monty at the Wal-Mart in Fairfax.  I swear to God I almost popped a neck vein.  I just wanted to knock her down and start screaming.  "Take that stupid shit off!"
> 
> It's like their walking around with their middle fingers extended to everyone's face.



You must have been a barrel of laughs being so upset about what some stranger wore.

But you were well within your rights to attack her....who did she think she was anyways?   This is AMERICA!


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## Anguille

nia588 said:


> are kidding me? you are really naive. millions of Muslims in this country are discriminated against. after 9/11 Muslims were treated like 2nd class citizens. i know people who can't even go through the airport without being "randomly" checked. and not just in America. But in Europe the treated of Muslims is worse. It's quite norm for Muslims in Europe to be attacked.
> 
> Yes this society is open. But it doesn't mean ignorant folks don't exist.
> 
> And im talking from experience. In the 11 years of living in the Mid east i've never seen a christian being mistreated. in fact there a tons of Americans that come to the mid east to work. my parents came over to the mid east to work. So if it was that bad why would American Christians even come here to work.
> 
> my point is that you find bad apples in every bunch.



Muslims have been discriminated against and attacked in this country since  _before_ 9/11 also.


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## Anguille

Yasmin said:


> ah ok i see you agree that there is more racism in france. yeah thats definitely right, but, how did you get to know this? which indicators?


One of the reasons I say that France is more racist than the US is because, unless things have changed, job applicants are still required to attach photos of themselves to applications thus allowing employers to discriminate more easily against skin color and ethic features. I don't know of any affirmative action programs in France.

France has never really acknowledged the destructive force they were in their North African colonies. They happily encourage migrant workers from the Maghreb then treat them like dirt. The US has at least acknowledged it's shameful involvement in the slave trade.

In the US only nut cases express the opinion that blacks should go back to Africa and not many of them lately. However in France, Le Pen's anti immigrant stance wins him accolades. 

Any country that would regularly give 15% or more of it's vote to Le Pen's Front National, the party which advocates stripping citizenship from native born descendants of Muslim immigrants and whose leader is a Holocaust revisionist is a country with a very serious problem with racism. 

I think both the US and France suffer from racism but France's racism is more insidious.

What are your own thoughts on this?


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## The_Halfmoon

I guess the French's idea of civil liberties is quite different to the anglo-american model... I can't see this being ok in north america

but I support banks and convenience stores banning entry to anyone that comes in dressed like a ninja


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## Mr.Fitnah

Mr.Fitnah said:


>


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## The_Halfmoon

exactly


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