# They died to Free blacks from slavery



## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

We keep getting told how whites died fighting to end slavery therefore we as blacks, who apparently did nothing need to be grateful for the great sacrifices made by whites. First off this is a silly claim. We are to be grateful that whites decided to fix a problem they created and did not have to be. However, reality is that such a claim is untrue.

*New York City draft riots*

The *New York City draft riots* (July 13–16, 1863), known at the time as *Draft Week*,[3] were violent disturbances in Lower Manhattan, widely regarded as the culmination of working-class discontent with new laws passed by Congress that year to draft men to fight in the ongoing American Civil War. The riots remain the largest civil and racially charged insurrection in American history, aside from the Civil War itself.[4]

U.S. President Abraham Lincoln diverted several regiments of militia and volunteer troops after the Battle of Gettysburg to control the city. The rioters were overwhelmingly working-class men, mostly Irish or of Irish descent, who feared free black people competing for work and resented that wealthier men, who could afford to pay a $300 (equivalent to $9,157 in 2017[5]) commutation fee to hire a substitute, were spared from the draft.[6][7]

Initially intended to express anger at the draft, the protests turned into a race riot, with white rioters, predominantly Irish immigrants,[4] attacking black people throughout the city. The official death toll was listed at either 119 or 120 individuals. Conditions in the city were such that Major General John E. Wool, commander of the Department of the East, said on July 16 that "Martial law ought to be proclaimed, but I have not a sufficient force to enforce it."[8]

The military did not reach the city until the second day of rioting, by which time the mobs had ransacked or destroyed numerous public buildings, two Protestant churches, the homes of various abolitionists or sympathizers, many black homes, and the Colored Orphan Asylum at 44th Street and Fifth Avenue, which was burned to the ground.[9]

The area's demographics changed as a result of the riot. Many black residents left Manhattan permanently with many moving to Brooklyn. By 1865, the black population fell below 11,000 for the first time since 1820.

New York City draft riots - Wikipedia


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## protectionist (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> We keep getting told how whites died fighting to end slavery therefore we as blacks, who apparently did nothing need to be grateful for the great sacrifices made by whites. First off this is a silly claim. We are to be grateful that whites decided to fix a problem they created and did not have to be. However, reality is that such a claim is untrue.
> 
> *New York City draft riots*
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> ...


The New York draft riots was a relatively small part of US Civil war era history.  It has very little to compare with 300,000 Union soldier lives lost.  Whether these northern soldiers fought for the principle of stopping slavery or not, they did fight and die in that war, and for blacks to shrug that off, merely shows a degree of mental incapacity.


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## there4eyeM (May 26, 2018)

Our ancestors made mistakes, all our ancestors! We are here, now. We know all humans are one race. We know that dividing us up into groups that can be hated only serves those who want to control us. It does not serve us.
We can have a very nice world if we just grow up.


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## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

there4eyeM said:


> Our ancestors made mistakes, all our ancestors! We are here, now. We know all humans are one race. We know that dividing us up into groups that can be hated only serves those who want to control us. It does not serve us.
> We can have a very nice world if we just grow up.



Every body is not responsible for the division in this country.


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## Erinwltr (May 26, 2018)

protectionist said:


> IM2 said:
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> > We keep getting told how whites died fighting to end slavery therefore we as blacks, who apparently did nothing need to be grateful for the great sacrifices made by whites. First off this is a silly claim. We are to be grateful that whites decided to fix a problem they created and did not have to be. However, reality is that such a claim is untrue.
> ...


Excellent comment.  However "merely shows a degree of mental incapacity."  I'd say "merely shows a degree of lack of education."


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## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

protectionist said:


> IM2 said:
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> > We keep getting told how whites died fighting to end slavery therefore we as blacks, who apparently did nothing need to be grateful for the great sacrifices made by whites. First off this is a silly claim. We are to be grateful that whites decided to fix a problem they created and did not have to be. However, reality is that such a claim is untrue.
> ...



Wrong.


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## Erinwltr (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


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Please hear the commenter out.  This is very interesting.


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## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

Erinwltr said:


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I'm probably better educated than you both. And the fact is whites did not die to free us in the civil war. They died, but not to free us. That is my point and the only lack of education is trying to deny that whites did not die  free us in this war.


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## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

Erinwltr said:


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Why? He missed the entire point. I'm the OP here and this thread is about the lie of whites claiming how whites died to free us from slavery. As the video shows ad states, northern whites didn't fight to free the slaves and damn sure southern whites didn't. So then the claim that whites died to free us is a lie.


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## fncceo (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Every body is not responsible for the division in this country.



I'd be more than happy to see a list of names of those you feel are responsible.  Alphabetically, please.


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## Erinwltr (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


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googletag.cmd.push(function() { googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-1502213804818-3'); });
*"They died to Free blacks from slavery "  Your OP title?  I thought this was open for discussion and comment.*


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## fncceo (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Why? He missed the entire point. I'm the OP here and this thread is about the lie of whites claiming how whites died to free us from slavery. As the video shows ad states, northern whites didn't fight to free the slaves and damn sure southern whites didn't. So then the claim that whites died to free us is a lie.



Do you even hear yourself?

The irony is weapons-grade.


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## there4eyeM (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> there4eyeM said:
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> > Our ancestors made mistakes, all our ancestors! We are here, now. We know all humans are one race. We know that dividing us up into groups that can be hated only serves those who want to control us. It does not serve us.
> ...


No, not everyone. I am not one.
You are. 
The Civil War was fought to preserve the Union. As a by-product, slavery also ended. Two good results emerged for an otherwise horrible, and avoidable, tragedy. 
We have the nation that exists today as a result of the sacrifice made back then. It is a rich land of much opportunity. At the same time, it is very far from perfect. Somehow, it has a large population that prefers ignorance to advancement. You are not alone, unfortunately, in wandering uselessly in division and duality. "White" and "black" are illusions when eyes are genuinely open. That there is discrimination on the part of some toward others is a result of falsehood, taking illusion for absolute. 
You are not free as long as you maintain yourself chained to duality.


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## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

fncceo said:


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That's old and tired. Try something else.


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## irosie91 (May 26, 2018)

for IM2.     TRUE---most people who fought in the civil war or lived during that time did not die to free slaves---
a very few did.       Not true is IM2's position that 
"WHITES"  invented slavery.


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## Erinwltr (May 26, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> for IM2.     TRUE---most people who fought in the civil war or lived during that time did not die to free slaves---
> a very few did.       Not true is IM2's position that
> "WHITES"  invented slavery.


Oh boy, here we go.


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## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

fncceo said:


> IM2 said:
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> > Why? He missed the entire point. I'm the OP here and this thread is about the lie of whites claiming how whites died to free us from slavery. As the video shows ad states, northern whites didn't fight to free the slaves and damn sure southern whites didn't. So then the claim that whites died to free us is a lie.
> ...



Yep I hear myself and see the standard attempts to deny and discredit the facts.


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## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> for IM2.     TRUE---most people who fought in the civil war or lived during that time did not die to free slaves---
> a very few did.       Not true is IM2's position that
> "WHITES"  invented slavery.



Slavery was made legal in the UNITED STATES by whites. You want to go back a million years in order to say you are not responsible. But we are talking about the claim of whites dying to free us.


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## there4eyeM (May 26, 2018)

Slavery was inherited in the U.S. in some areas. Not all regions had or permitted slavery. Most men were not for it. No women had a vote, so they had no voice in it. On what basis can it be honestly stated that the so-called white part of the population enforced slavery? Such a proposition only serves to divide further.


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## jon_berzerk (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> We keep getting told how whites died fighting to end slavery therefore we as blacks, who apparently did nothing need to be grateful for the great sacrifices made by whites. First off this is a silly claim. We are to be grateful that whites decided to fix a problem they created and did not have to be. However, reality is that such a claim is untrue.
> 
> *New York City draft riots*
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over 2,100,000 served the north to free the slaves 

300,000 died during that war 

pick up a history  book for once ya asshole


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## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

there4eyeM said:


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Yes you are. I am free. In reality slavery did not end after the civil war.

_When it is said we talk about a history of racist laws and policy many do not understand the full extent of what is meant. According to the 13th Amendment, "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, *except as punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted,* shall exist within the United States, nor any place subject to their jurisdiction."I think people really need to understand the impact of the underlined words. Blacks were arrested, tried, found guilty and sent to prison for crimes such as vagrancy, cussing in front of whites, jaywalking and other minor or non offenses for whites. Because of this, they could be returned to slavery and were. There has been no amendment to change this part of the 13th Amendment meaning that in reality slavery could still exist in America today. After slavery ended:_


_Employment was required of all freedmen; violators faced vagrancy charges _


_•Freedmen could not assemble without the presence of a white person _


_•Freedmen were assumed to be agricultural workers and their duties and hours were tightly regulated _


_•Freedmen were not to be taught to read or write _


_•Public facilities were segregated _


_•Violators of these laws were subject to being whipped or branded. _

_And sent back into slavery. _

You see the after math of slavery was a system that excluded just as much. And everybody did not make the laws that did so. Everybody was not allowed to participate because of those laws  only a certain group was.  That helped created the system we live in right now and your denial of this is where you fail. Knowledge is freedom, an opinion is not.


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## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

jon_berzerk said:


> IM2 said:
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> > We keep getting told how whites died fighting to end slavery therefore we as blacks, who apparently did nothing need to be grateful for the great sacrifices made by whites. First off this is a silly claim. We are to be grateful that whites decided to fix a problem they created and did not have to be. However, reality is that such a claim is untrue.
> ...



The north did not fight to free the slaves.  Watch the video and learn something.


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## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

there4eyeM said:


> Slavery was inherited in the U.S. in some areas. Not all regions had or permitted slavery. Most men were not for it. No women had a vote, so they had no voice in it. On what basis can it be honestly stated that the so-called white part of the population enforced slavery? Such a proposition only serves to divide further.



The *Fugitive Slave Law* or *Fugitive Slave Act* was passed by the United States Congress on September 18, 1850, as part of the Compromise of 1850 between Southern slave-holding interests and Northern Free-Soilers.

The Act was one of the most controversial elements of the 1850 compromise and heightened Northern fears of a "slave power conspiracy". It required that all escaped slaves, upon capture, be returned to their masters and that officials and citizens of free states had to cooperate. Abolitionists nicknamed it the "Bloodhound Law" for the dogs that were used to track down runaway slaves.[1]

*Article Four of the United States Constitution*

*Clause 3: Fugitive Slave Clause*

No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.

These are just 2 things.


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## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

Erinwltr said:


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Seems that we are discussing the OP.


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## there4eyeM (May 26, 2018)

As with all bigots, "2" only sees what re-enforces the bigotry.
Bi gots are bi nary. Binary is illusion.
Free yourself.


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## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

there4eyeM said:


> As with all bigots, "2" only sees what re-enforces the bigotry.
> Bi gots are bi nary. Binary is illusion.
> Free yourself.



Start making sense. I can show you 50 and you'd still repeat that same stupid bullshit. You saw  the constitution and a law. Both specifically answered your question.







I'm free. But really, are you?


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## there4eyeM (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


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You see "black" and "white". I see a person.
What you present does not refer to what I have stated. It supports your argument, but does not address mine.
What do you expect people to do today to change what you perceive as the condition of things?


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## xband (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> We keep getting told how whites died fighting to end slavery therefore we as blacks, who apparently did nothing need to be grateful for the great sacrifices made by whites. First off this is a silly claim. We are to be grateful that whites decided to fix a problem they created and did not have to be. However, reality is that such a claim is untrue.
> 
> *New York City draft riots*
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Back then a rich man could legally buy the draft to get out rather than being inducted. My great great great uncle got killed on the battlefield in the Civil War on my maternal side. My great great great grandma was active in the Underground Railroad and we were all born and bred in Ohio and white as the driven snow. How soon people forget.


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## irosie91 (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


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you have made NO POINT.     As far as going back a MILLION YEARS.-----I need not.    I have no family legacy in the US all the way BACK before the Emancipation and certainly not a family legacy of
SOUTHERN PLANTATION OWNERSHIP    I am no more responsible than are you.   Are you responsible for slavery in sub-Saharan Africa?


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## xband (May 26, 2018)

irosie91 said:


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That dude has mental issues of something he has never experienced and lost reading skewed history books. Tell that dude to lay his head back in an easy chair and think positive thoughts which will put him in a hypotonic state where he is easily hypnotized, id est, Brainwashed.


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## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

irosie91 said:


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Here we go with stupid. There is no sub-Saharan Africa. There is only Africa. Slavery did not end things for backs and you have benefitted from what went on after slavery. But you see, you are responsible for righting wrongs not making excuses as to why you can't. We all are. I'm not responsible for black crime, I have not sold a drug, fathered children out of wedlock, I went to college and graduated, always held a job, never took welfare and yet have helped those who have been affected by these things prosper. No excuses. You need to do the same.


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## gipper (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


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> > Slavery was inherited in the U.S. in some areas. Not all regions had or permitted slavery. Most men were not for it. No women had a vote, so they had no voice in it. On what basis can it be honestly stated that the so-called white part of the population enforced slavery? Such a proposition only serves to divide further.
> ...


It is a fact that many Americans fought to end slavery.  Many northern soldiers were devout Christians and abolitionists.  They were inflamed by the propaganda of the day...such as Uncle Tom's Cabin.  This lead them to take up arms to end slavery.  Many of my ancestors did exactly that.  

This thread is yet another proof of your illogical racist hatred for whites.

P.S. had black slavers in Africa not sold your ancestors into slavery in North America, you likely would still be in Africa.  So, you have much to be grateful for.


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## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

xband said:


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That must be you. For I have experienced white racism and discrimination against me.


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## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

gipper said:


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Not really. Whites did not fight to end slavery. That's just the way it is.


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## KissMy (May 26, 2018)

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OMG did you hear someone lock their car doors as you happen to walked by?


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## gipper (May 26, 2018)

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You ingrate.  Must you always post ignorance?  I guess that is a common trait for racists.

To give you the benefit of the doubt (something you would never give a white person), you are confusing the political leadership in the North with the Northern soldier.  They are two very different things. 

Lincoln didn't give two shits about the slaves or ending slavery.  He only wanted to make sure the tariff on the Southern states economy was imposed, so that the federal government would be enriched along with his bosses. He was entirely owned and controlled by wealthy northern industrialists.  They got him elected and he did their bidding.


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## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

What I heard was how whites claim to have died to free backs but replaced it with jim crow all over America. And again I'll post this:

When it is said we talk about a history of racist laws and policy many do not understand the full extent of what is meant. According to the 13th Amendment, "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, *except as punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted,* shall exist within the United States, nor any place subject to their jurisdiction."I think people really need to understand the impact of the underlined words. Blacks were arrested, tried, found guilty and sent to prison for crimes such as vagrancy, cussing in front of whites, jaywalking and other minor or non offenses for whites. Because of this, they could be returned to slavery and were. There has been no amendment to change this part of the 13th Amendment meaning that in reality slavery could still exist in America today. After slavery ended:

_Employment was required of all freedmen; violators faced vagrancy charges _


_•Freedmen could not assemble without the presence of a white person _


_•Freedmen were assumed to be agricultural workers and their duties and hours were tightly regulated _


_•Freedmen were not to be taught to read or write _


_•Public facilities were segregated _


_•Violators of these laws were subject to being whipped or branded. _

And sent back into slavery. Just think about it, a black person could be convicted of not being employed and sent back into slavery along with many other things. Far too many people want to argue about things said without an understanding of the depth and length of things that have and continue to occur.

The decisions made by the supreme court in these cases began what we call today states rights. The decision was that the federal government could not interfere in how the states did things. If an act of racism happened in a state that was a state concern, not a federal one. So while slavery was illegal by written law, while rights were not to be denied by race, whites found a way around those amendments to continue practicing racism.  In 1896 the whites of this nation insured that racial segregation would be the law. This was done by Plessy V. Ferguson. So while slavery was no longer legal by constitutional amendment meaning blacks or anyone of color were not supposed be denied rights, because of Plessy v Ferguson they could be separated and reduced to second class citizenship. So laws were written, but whites found another way to practice the same racism.


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## there4eyeM (May 26, 2018)

there4eyeM said:


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*What do you expect people to do today to change what you perceive as the condition of things?*


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## KissMy (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> What I heard was how whitws claim to  have died to fre backs but replaced it with jim crow all overAmerica. And again I'll post this:
> 
> When it is said we talk about a history of racist laws and policy many do not understand the full extent of what is meant. According to the 13th Amendment, "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, *except as punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted,* shall exist within the United States, nor any place subject to their jurisdiction."I think people really need to understand the impact of the underlined words. Blacks were arrested, tried, found guilty and sent to prison for crimes such as vagrancy, cussing in front of whites, jaywalking and other minor or non offenses for whites. Because of this, they could be returned to slavery and were. There has been no amendment to change this part of the 13th Amendment meaning that in reality slavery could still exist in America today. After slavery ended:
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You have no experience because non of this happened in our lifetime.


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## xband (May 26, 2018)

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It is impossible for blacks to be racist, Jessie Jackson. I wanted to bid on a APS (Atlanta Public Schools) contract and the black woman contract manager told me straight up, you are the wrong color. I got a little bit angry and said nothing walking out the door.


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## Correll (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> We keep getting told how whites died fighting to end slavery therefore we as blacks, who apparently did nothing need to be grateful for the great sacrifices made by whites. First off this is a silly claim. We are to be grateful that whites decided to fix a problem they created and did not have to be. However, reality is that such a claim is untrue.
> 
> *New York City draft riots*
> 
> The *New York City draft riots* (July 13–16, 1863), known at the time as *Draft Week*,[3] were violent disturbances in Lower Manhattan, widely regarded as the culmination of working-class discontent with new laws passed by Congress that year to draft men to fight in the ongoing American Civil War. The riots remain the largest civil and racially charged insurrection in American history, aside from the Civil War itself.[4]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_draft_riots#cite_note-foner-4


If the Civil War was not about slavery, and was just about saving the Union, why were these Draft Riots, "racially charged"?





> U.S. President Abraham Lincoln diverted several regiments of militia and volunteer troops after the Battle of Gettysburg to control the city. The rioters were overwhelmingly working-class men, mostly Irish or of Irish descent, who feared free black people competing for work and resented that wealthier men, who could afford to pay a $300 (equivalent to $9,157 in 2017[5]) commutation fee to hire a substitute, were spared from the draft.[6][7]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_draft_riots#cite_note-7


The riots were BEFORE the Gettysburgh Address, yet the rioters seemed to think that the war would result in large numbers of slaves being freed. 

MMMM, interesting.




> Initially intended to express anger at the draft, the protests turned into a race riot, with white rioters, predominantly Irish immigrants,[4] attacking black people throughout the city. The official death toll was listed at either 119 or 120 individuals. Conditions in the city were such that Major General John E. Wool, commander of the Department of the East, said on July 16 that "Martial law ought to be proclaimed, but I have not a sufficient force to enforce it."[8]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_draft_riots#cite_note-wool-8


Again with the anger at blacks, over a war that you claim was not about the blacks. 






> The military did not reach the city until the second day of rioting, by which time the mobs had ransacked or destroyed numerous public buildings, two Protestant churches, the homes of various abolitionists or sympathizers, many black homes, and the Colored Orphan Asylum at 44th Street and Fifth Avenue, which was burned to the ground.[9]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_draft_riots#cite_note-Harris-9


Abolitionists? That's even weirder. 

These citizens, during the Civil War, well before The Gettysburg address, really seemed convinced that the war was about freeing the slaves.


Oh, and the attack on the churches? THat was because they were known to be big in the Abolition movement.





> The area's demographics changed as a result of the riot. Many black residents left Manhattan permanently with many moving to Brooklyn. By 1865, the black population fell below 11,000 for the first time since 1820.
> 
> New York City draft riots - Wikipedia




And again with the Blacks. Jeez, where did these fools get the idea that the Civil War would end up freeing the slaves?


How crazy of them.



Do you even read anything?


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## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

gipper said:


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Whites did not fight to free us, that is an undeniable truth. You are the one posting ignorance because you are  the racist.  You know what you can do with that ingrate shit. You weren't here for the civil war, you don't want be held responsible for what your great grandfather did, but you want me to be grateful to him? Are you crazy?

Cognitive dissonance.


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## JoeMoma (May 26, 2018)

Blacks did not overcome slavery and oppression in America alone.  The attitudes and beliefs of whites had to evolve as well.  Slavery did not end because Blacks took up arms and fought back.  The Jim Crow laws were not ended by force in the 1950s and 1960s.    White people chose to change.  Had white people not chose to change, Black people might still be in bondage.  The civil rights movement that changed America was both black and white; it had to be to be successful.


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## gipper (May 26, 2018)

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Clearly you ARE an INGRATE and a racist.

My ancestors must be rolling in their graves for fighting and dying to free your ancestors, after reading your racist diatribes.


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## irosie91 (May 26, 2018)

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"THERE IS ONLY AFRICA"?       good---my husband was born in southern asia and his ancestors are from southern asia   -----in fact,
genetically-----my ancestry is very African.
As to his genes---also very african    My skin is very white---
his is dark-----called "brown" in England.   Do you
OWE us something?    Will you RIGHT the wrongs
done to him and his community for more than 1000
years-----and to mine and his for more than  2000 years?       Tell me a group of people who were never oppressed-------and  Saxons were oppressed by the Normans..... damn those NORMANS


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## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

xband said:


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Why didn't you file a  racial discrimination suit then? You're lying, that's why.

You have chosen to ignore what a history of white racism has done to try making a false equivalence about racism. For some reason whites such as you, not all whites, seem to believe that blacks after over 400 continuous years of white racism should not be angry or that no black has a right to not trust or like whites. But 2 planes flying into a building one time gives you license to dislike, mistrust and hate Muslims as much as you want. And don't dare call you racists for that.

I’ll end this by saying what racism is not. It is not complaining about racism directed at blacks by whites. It is not the angry response to the built in disrespect of a persons humanity by the race that thinks they are superior either. It is not the animosity built up in those who have been the ones disrespected by the race that thinks they are superior. A lot of whites do not seem to understand what white racism has done and then want to quickly call racism the angry reaction, responses and animosity created by white racism.


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## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

gipper said:


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Clearly you are an idiot. Your ancestors can roll 24-7-365  because they did not fight or die to free my ancestors.


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## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

irosie91 said:


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What does this have to do with the OP?


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## irosie91 (May 26, 2018)

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> > IM2 said:
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your ancestors did not fight or die to free mine---either.     You are very narrow in your thinking


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (May 26, 2018)




----------



## Taz (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Erinwltr said:
> 
> 
> > protectionist said:
> ...


We should have never fought the civil war then, and left all you ungrateful brown sacks of flabby skin in chains in the south?


----------



## xband (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> xband said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



I never lie and am doomed to speak the truth but only about my personal experiences. Let me tell you more of my personal experiences and don't tell me to write a book.


----------



## KissMy (May 26, 2018)

Many of us white males have been passed over by blacks because of need to fill black women quotas. Customers complained stupid black woman could not repair machines, so boss promoted her to supervisor to get her out of doing service calls, so us white guys had to work under a ignorant racist black bitch.


----------



## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

Taz said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Erinwltr said:
> ...



And curly enters into the discussion.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 26, 2018)

JoeMoma said:


> White people chose to change.


I agree with your sentiment but this statement is not accurate.   I have no hard numbers or percentages but things did not change because the attitudes and beliefs of white people changed, it was the *laws *that changed eventually.  Laws however cannot legislate a person's mind and heart only provide punishment, either criminal or civil, for the violation thereof.  And when those individuals involved in our criminal justice system - police officers, prosecutors, jurors & judges were allowed the discretion to selectively enforce the laws as they saw fit, then irrespective to the what laws were on the books, white society still managed to maintain the status quo for a very long time thereafter.  In fact many aspects of racial discrimination are still in play to today but more so covert as opposed to the in-your-face overt racism of the past.


----------



## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

xband said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > xband said:
> ...



That's a lie right there. If that black woman told you that you were the wrong color to compete for that contract you should have filed a racial discrimination suit. I'm quite sure that you knew you could if that was the case given you want to jump at any claim of black racism. Therefore it didn't happen.


----------



## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

KissMy said:


> Many of us white males have been passed over by blacks because of need to fill black women quotas. Customers complained stupid black woman could not repair machines, so boss promoted her to supervisor to get her out of doing service calls, so us white guys had to work under a ignorant racist bitch.



No many of you have not. Quotas do not exist. They are illegal.


----------



## TroglocratsRdumb (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> We keep getting told how whites died fighting to end slavery therefore we as blacks, who apparently did nothing need to be grateful for the great sacrifices made by whites. First off this is a silly claim. We are to be grateful that whites decided to fix a problem they created and did not have to be. However, reality is that such a claim is untrue.
> 
> *New York City draft riots*
> 
> ...



What is it that you want?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (May 26, 2018)

TroglocratsRdumb said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > We keep getting told how whites died fighting to end slavery therefore we as blacks, who apparently did nothing need to be grateful for the great sacrifices made by whites. First off this is a silly claim. We are to be grateful that whites decided to fix a problem they created and did not have to be. However, reality is that such a claim is untrue.
> ...



Free money......


----------



## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

TroglocratsRdumb said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > We keep getting told how whites died fighting to end slavery therefore we as blacks, who apparently did nothing need to be grateful for the great sacrifices made by whites. First off this is a silly claim. We are to be grateful that whites decided to fix a problem they created and did not have to be. However, reality is that such a claim is untrue.
> ...



Dumb question.


----------



## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> TroglocratsRdumb said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



Any money we ask for certainly is not free. Now please discuss the OP.


----------



## TroglocratsRdumb (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> TroglocratsRdumb said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


well then the question should be easy to answer


----------



## irosie91 (May 26, 2018)

the history of the world according to skin color was
a very popular topic amongst black sociologists ---
mostly in the 1960s


----------



## JoeMoma (May 26, 2018)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> JoeMoma said:
> 
> 
> > White people chose to change.
> ...


We can argue which came first, the chicken or the egg!  The laws didn’t just decide to change on their own.   The laws changed because the beliefs of white people changed.  This change did not happen in an instant, it took time.  It took generations.


----------



## xband (May 26, 2018)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> JoeMoma said:
> 
> 
> > White people chose to change.
> ...



The Criminal Justice System, the horror. Kick the bottom of my bunk and I will pull your arms out of the sockets and toss you to the raving lunatics.

edit: been there done that


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > TroglocratsRdumb said:
> ...



*Any money we ask for certainly is not free. *

LOL!


----------



## jon_berzerk (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...




liar 

over 2,100,000 served the north to free the slaves 

300,000 died during that war 

pick up a history book for once ya asshole


----------



## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

TroglocratsRdumb said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > TroglocratsRdumb said:
> ...



The question is not related to the OP, therefore it won't be answered.


----------



## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> the history of the world according to skin color was
> a very popular topic amongst black sociologists ---
> mostly in the 1960s



History has not ended yet.


----------



## irosie91 (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > the history of the world according to skin color was
> ...



true------so?     do you still hang on to the history of the world by skin color theory?


----------



## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

jon_berzerk said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...



Wrong. You've been shown that.


----------



## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



This has nothing to do with the OP. The history of race relations in America is what Is being discussed.


----------



## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

xband said:


> NewsVine_Mariyam said:
> 
> 
> > JoeMoma said:
> ...



Whites here spend a lot of energy denying truth.


----------



## jon_berzerk (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



no you are the one that is wrong 

i presented you the facts of northern involvement 

not to mention the thousand of northern civilians that also 

assisted  and died to free the slaves 

go fuck yourself asshole


----------



## TroglocratsRdumb (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> TroglocratsRdumb said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


weak, lame, coward


----------



## there4eyeM (May 26, 2018)

The Civil War was fought for a cause. That cause won. As a result, slavery was ended in the U.S. If that "cause" was not purely and only to "free the slaves", it nevertheless did.
"Blacks" in America are legally free. What needs freeing now are minds. Just shouting for one group is as specific and prejudiced as shouting against it. We are all in this together and need to free ourselves from preconceptions about women first and special other groups after. 
There is only one human race. 
Otherwise, there are two races. One is a race toward extermination. The other is a race to survival in a better world than we have today.
Start running.


----------



## irosie91 (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



oh----that is a VERY BROAD TOPIC------are you insisting
that the only race issue in the USA is  "white on black"?


----------



## there4eyeM (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> TroglocratsRdumb said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


Cop out! Of course it applies to the discussion of "race relations"!  The answer is just more complex and nuanced than you are prepared to be. It doesn't fit into easy antagonism and anger. You don't seek discussion, you seek abject apology and agreement.
No one has defended slavery. No one has proposed oppression. You state there is a problem, so naturally a solution might be expected to be proposed. You say you have helped others. Good. What can society do to redress the problem you identify as persisting?


----------



## Taz (May 26, 2018)

If they didn't die partly to free the slaves, then why were the slaves freed after the war?


----------



## protectionist (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> That's old and tired. Try something else.


DODGE!


----------



## protectionist (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Slavery was made legal in the UNITED STATES by whites. You want to go back a million years in order to say you are not responsible. But we are talking about the claim of whites dying to free us.


This is racist talk.  First, no women had any political power.  That's 50% of slavery-era "whites".
Then, slavery was only in the south.  That eliminates northern whites. Then, even in the south, it was only in coastal plains, where slavery existed. In southern mountain states, there was no cotton growing,  No plantations.  No slaves.  That eliminates an enormous part of the south.  Then you have the class factor.  Even with the coastal plain areas of the south, it's only rich whites who had slaves, and they were a tiny minority of that population. 

Overall, you have less than 1% of "whites" before 1865, who had any responsibility for slavery, and that's probably a lower % than the % of blacks in African countries who sold the slaves into slavery.

Then there's the time factor. Slavery ended in 1866 with the 13th amendment to the Constitution, written earlier on, by Jacob Howard and Abraham Lincoln.  In order for any slaveholder to be alive today, they'd have to be about 170 years old. So no "whites" alive today, or even in the past 3 generations, had anything to do with slavery. 
So slavery, in this day & age, as far as responsibility is concerned, is a (literally) dead issue.​
Now that brings us to who IS alive today, and DOES have something to do with racial oppression.  .  Well, that would be all the people (black & white) who have pushed and supported Affirmative Action.  That outrageous racism should be abolished nationwide (currently banned in only 8 states), and large reparations$$ should be paid to whites LIVING TODAY.

If you are so up in arms against the whites who were slaveholders, in the 19th century, perhaps you could go to an old cemetary, and yell at their tombstones. And while you're at it, you could go to a Civil War cemetary, where Union soldiers are buried, put flags or flowers, and express thanks.


----------



## boedicca (May 26, 2018)

Oh Goody!

Yet another racist race baiting thread posted by a racist race baiter who race baits.


----------



## protectionist (May 26, 2018)

boedicca said:


> Oh Goody!
> 
> Yet another racist race baiting thread posted by a racist race baiter who race baits.


But we know that, and have taken him to task.  Ho hum.


----------



## protectionist (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> This has nothing to do with the OP. The history of race relations in America is what Is being discussed.


Which includes Affirmative Action discrimination against whites (including 21st century)


----------



## KissMy (May 26, 2018)

Whites fought & died to free black slaves. Slavery has historically been widespread in Africa, and still continues there today. If you hate US whites so much, you are free to leave & rejoin the African slaves being oppressed by Black Slave Owners.


----------



## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

KissMy said:


> Whites fought & died to free black slaves. Slavery has historically been widespread in Africa, and still continues there today. If you hate US whites so much, you are free to leave & rejoin the African slaves being oppressed by Black Slave Owners.



No they didn't. You  have been shown that. To repeat this only shows you refuse to accept anything but the racist lies you have been taught.


----------



## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

protectionist said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > This has nothing to do with the OP. The history of race relations in America is what Is being discussed.
> ...



Except it doesn't.


----------



## Meathead (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> > Whites fought & died to free black slaves. Slavery has historically been widespread in Africa, and still continues there today. If you hate US whites so much, you are free to leave & rejoin the African slaves being oppressed by Black Slave Owners.
> ...


Even today, you would be worth more as a slave. That's is sad.


----------



## KissMy (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> > Whites fought & died to free black slaves. Slavery has historically been widespread in Africa, and still continues there today. If you hate US whites so much, you are free to leave & rejoin the African slaves being oppressed by Black Slave Owners.
> ...


You would still be a slave in Africa had whites not brought your black great grandparents to America & freed them.

Why are you not freeing these black slaves held in Sudan?




"The Arab slave trade typically dealt in the sale of castrated male slaves. Black boys between the age of 8 and 12 had their scrotums and penises completely amputated to prevent them from reproducing. About six of every 10 boys  bled to death during the procedure, according to some sources, but the high price brought by eunuchs on the market made the practice profitable."


----------



## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

protectionist said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Slavery was made legal in the UNITED STATES by whites. You want to go back a million years in order to say you are not responsible. But we are talking about the claim of whites dying to free us.
> ...



There is nothing racist in what I said.

In 1863, the President of the United States signed the Emancipation Proclamation freeing the slaves but really freeing them only on stats held by the confederacy. On January 31, 1865, the 13th Amendment was proposed which ended slavery officially in the United States, yet it took until March 16, 1995 for the last state to ratify this amendment. On June 13, 1866, the 14th Amendment was proposed whereby American citizenship was supposed to be granted to every citizen regardless of race or former condition of servitude. Yet it took until March 18, 1976, for the last state to ratify this amendment. On February 26, 1869, the first right to vote was granted to black men only but the last state to ratify this took until 1997. I present these 3 amendments because of what they were supposed to end. That would be the end of white racism by practice , law and policy. But that did not happen. Instead whites created a new way to practice racism and it started with the decisions made in cases during the late 1800’s.

A 1883 Supreme Court opinion states that “when a man has emerged from slavery … there must be some stage in the progress of his elevation when he takes the rank of a mere citizen and ceases to be the special favorite of the laws.” That was two decades after emancipation. I think the supreme court was a little ahead of itself. Even still that shows us a purposeful blindness to reality by whites which carries over into today. To ignore the special favorite of the law status whites had enjoyed to that point is really an example of mental madness.

When it is said we talk about a history of racist laws and policy many do not understand the full extent of what is meant. According to the 13th Amendment, "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, *except as punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted,* shall exist within the United States, nor any place subject to their jurisdiction."I think people really need to understand the impact of the underlined words. Blacks were arrested, tried, found guilty and sent to prison for crimes such as vagrancy, cussing in front of whites, jaywalking and other minor or non offenses for whites. Because of this, they could be returned to slavery and were. There has been no amendment to change this part of the 13th Amendment meaning that in reality slavery could still exist in America today. After slavery ended:

_Employment was required of all freedmen; violators faced vagrancy charges _

_•Freedmen could not assemble without the presence of a white person _

_•Freedmen were assumed to be agricultural workers and their duties and hours were tightly regulated _

_•Freedmen were not to be taught to read or write _

_•Public facilities were segregated _

_•Violators of these laws were subject to being whipped or branded. _

*And sent back into slavery*. Just think about it, a black person could be convicted of not being employed and sent back into slavery along with many other things. Far too many people want to argue about things said without an understanding of the depth and length of things that have and continue to occur.

The decisions made by the supreme court in these cases began what we call today states rights. The decision was that the federal government could not interfere in how the states did things. If an act of racism happened in a state that was a state concern, not a federal one. So while slavery was illegal by written law, while rights were not to be denied by race, whites found a way around those amendments to continue practicing racism.  In 1896 the whites of this nation insured that racial segregation would be the law. This was done by Plessy V. Ferguson. So while slavery was no longer legal by constitutional amendment meaning blacks or anyone of color were not supposed be denied rights, because of Plessy v Ferguson they could be separated and reduced to second class citizenship. So laws were written, but whites found another way to practice the same racism.

So we fast forward to the1960s. We got the Voting Rights Act and Civil Rights act. Affirmative Action was an executive order. But the thing about Affirmative Action was it only applied to government jobs and government construction contracts. Despite these things being passed in the mid 1960’s it took until the late 1980’s for most of the nation to comply. These laws were not immediately followed. Yet today there are whites who still find ways to circumvent the law.

Racism today is practiced in a new way and it's not overt in practice but covert in policy. This racism is called entitlement reform. Immigration. Welfare reform. Voter fraud. And many other things that are actually policies designed to take away things from non whites. This is how racism is played today. I’m colorblind and if you talk about racism, you are the racist. This is part of the history of race in America. It’s not the nice part so no one wants to hear it. For any progress made, the racists adapt and create a new way to limit that progress. Or end it. Ask those who are taking Affirmative Action to court. The Fisher case was a case heard an unprecedented 2 times by the supreme court which is something a non white case never would get. It was rejected the first time but white rights organizers again funded the attempt and it got heard for a second time. So a person can talk about how laws are written and pretend that words on a piece of paper are being followed, but that’s not the case and it never has been.

We always have to be told about what racism is by whites. And of course there are whites who tell us that racism doesn't exist because they don't see the KKK outfits, burning crosses or the whites only signs. Or how Oprah exists so that means all blacks are economically on equal footing as whites. Therefore racism is over according to them. But it's not. And what we have seen as non whites is how racism changes in practice each and every time laws are passed to try stopping it.

You are ignorant to these matters son, and whites have not been harmed by AA. Whites have benefitted the most and incomes of white households have increased because of the policy. You run your mouth, but you know nothing.


----------



## deanrd (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> We keep getting told how whites died fighting to end slavery therefore we as blacks, who apparently did nothing need to be grateful for the great sacrifices made by whites. First off this is a silly claim. We are to be grateful that whites decided to fix a problem they created and did not have to be. However, reality is that such a claim is untrue.
> 
> *New York City draft riots*
> 
> ...


Southern Whites, today's heart of the Republican Party, fought to keep them enslaved.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (May 26, 2018)

Whites died to free the slaves and 200 and some years later realized how badly they fucked up.


----------



## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

Tipsycatlover said:


> Whites died to free the slaves and 200 and some years later realized how badly they fucked up.



You're a woman and at that time your ass could not vote, own property or nothing. But you are here taking about whites freeing someone when Martin Luther King died to freed your white female ass.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> > Whites died to free the slaves and 200 and some years later realized how badly they fucked up.
> ...


Oh please.  Tell it to someone that wasn't there.   Martin Luther King was an alcoholic reprobate that spent the family food money on white prostitutes and embezzled the money from Ebenezer Church to finance his booze and coke parties.  He was so sotted with booze he had to plagiarize his famous speech from Archibald Carey.  

The only blessing was that King was assassinated by a white guy, thus saving a black man from doing the deed himself.  As it was, Coretta King was certain his killer was Malcolm X.

The old bastard lived too long as it was.


----------



## Lysistrata (May 26, 2018)

protectionist said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > We keep getting told how whites died fighting to end slavery therefore we as blacks, who apparently did nothing need to be grateful for the great sacrifices made by whites. First off this is a silly claim. We are to be grateful that whites decided to fix a problem they created and did not have to be. However, reality is that such a claim is untrue.
> ...



when did anyone shrug this off?  I'm of european backgound on both sides. My great-greats lived in NYC at the time. Please explain.


----------



## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

Tipsycatlover said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Tipsycatlover said:
> ...



I was there. You were not. It's too bad you have to lie like this. King was killed in 1968. Malcolm X died in 1965.


----------



## westwall (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> We keep getting told how whites died fighting to end slavery therefore we as blacks, who apparently did nothing need to be grateful for the great sacrifices made by whites. First off this is a silly claim. We are to be grateful that whites decided to fix a problem they created and did not have to be. However, reality is that such a claim is untrue.
> 
> *New York City draft riots*
> 
> ...






And you ignore the fact that BLACKS kidnapped and enslaved their fellow black people to sell them to the evil slave holders in the USA, not all of whom were WHITE.  Amazingly enough, at least 25% of the slave owners were likewise BLACK. 

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.


----------



## Slyhunter (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > for IM2.     TRUE---most people who fought in the civil war or lived during that time did not die to free slaves---
> ...


Slavery was made legal in Africa and sold to purchases from across the planet by Blacks.


----------



## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

westwall said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > We keep getting told how whites died fighting to end slavery therefore we as blacks, who apparently did nothing need to be grateful for the great sacrifices made by whites. First off this is a silly claim. We are to be grateful that whites decided to fix a problem they created and did not have to be. However, reality is that such a claim is untrue.
> ...



I don't ignore anything. 25 percent of the slave-owners here were not black. But even if that had been true, that means 75 percent or 3 out of 4 slave owners here were white. We are discussing the fact that whites did not due to free us in the civil war. Now if you want to discuss the manner in which whites armed certain tribes and not others so they could capture their enemies then buy them start a thread. There are s many things that whites did that have nothing to do with what happened in Africa. You never ask yourselves why whites didn't just pay their passages in agreement for indentured servitude. So you smoke on that.


----------



## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

Slyhunter said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



 Slavery was made legal in the US by US law.


----------



## flacaltenn (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



Don't know how you could CONSISTENTLY be so wrong on so many pages here. The Constitution did not make slavery legal. It just didn't prohibit it. That was a decision made by the STATES at that time. The Constitution had to accomodate those states that specifically profited from it. And I don't KNOW but I suspect, not many States actually "made slavery legal". They just did not prohibit it at the time.

As for free blacks in America -- they were about 1,8% of the ENTIRE POPULATION of the US -- 1860 BEFORE the war.. And what's more per capita of ALL PERSONS -- there were more free Blacks in the South than in the (existing) old North.

The upper South had more than THREE TIMES the percentage of free Blacks than the Northern regions did in 1860 when viewed as percentage of the TOTAL population of those regions.. In fact 3% of that upper South total population were FREE BLACKS. And the lower South had similar numbers of FREE BLACKS that equaled most Northern regions.

Folks who went to the school in the South KNOW the set-up for the Civil War.

Untitled Document

So it wouldn't be crazy to suggest that MANY of those free blacks had a few slaves as well about 1860 in the South. It happened. Don't have the numbers at my finger tips -- but I've seen them..


----------



## protectionist (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Except it doesn't.


Of course it does.  History  of race relations in America, not including Affirmative action ?  You show yourself as very foolish, without a grain of credibility.


----------



## protectionist (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> There is nothing racist in what I said.
> 
> In 1863, the President of the United States signed the Emancipation Proclamation freeing the slaves but really freeing them only on stats held by the confederacy. On January 31, 1865, the 13th Amendment was proposed which ended slavery officially in the United States, yet it took until March 16, 1995 for the last state to ratify this amendment. On June 13, 1866, the 14th Amendment was proposed whereby American citizenship was supposed to be granted to every citizen regardless of race or former condition of servitude. Yet it took until March 18, 1976, for the last state to ratify this amendment. On February 26, 1869, the first right to vote was granted to black men only but the last state to ratify this took until 1997. I present these 3 amendments because of what they were supposed to end. That would be the end of white racism by practice , law and policy. But that did not happen. Instead whites created a new way to practice racism and it started with the decisions made in cases during the late 1800’s.
> 
> ...


What you said is racist, because you said >> _"Slavery was made legal in the UNITED STATES by whites."  _SInce you didn't stipulate WHICH whites, and that it was a very small number (as I explained in Post # 81), that leaves your sentence as saying that ALL whites made slavery legal.  Demonizing a whole race like that, for the actions of a small group, is about as racist as you can get.

As for Affirmaive Action, its discrimination against whites, is, the largest racist discrimination in America, against, by far, the largest number of people (whites), and continues (in 42 states) after 50+ years.  Your support of AA is just more evidence of your blatant RACISM and your criminality, since AA is illegal (violation of the 1964 Civil Rights Act)


----------



## protectionist (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> No they didn't. You  have been shown that. To repeat this only shows you refuse to accept anything but the racist lies you have been taught.


Sure they did. many many individual soldier didn't fight & die to free black slaves, but the North politicians (including Lincoln) had the freeing of the salves as part of why they waged the war.  Thus, the entire US Army was freeing the slaves.


----------



## protectionist (May 26, 2018)

deanrd said:


> Southern Whites, today's heart of the Republican Party, fought to keep them enslaved.


FALSE!  This is almost as bad as the mistake IM2 made when he blamed "whites" for slavery._ "Southern whites"_, as you stated it, include many millions of people who never even laid eyes on a black person, let alone enslaved them.

As I said in Post # 81,  In southern mountain states, there was no cotton growing, No plantations. No slaves. That eliminates an enormous part of the south. Then you have the class factor. Even with the coastal plain areas of the south, it's only rich whites who had slaves, and they were a tiny minority of that population.


----------



## protectionist (May 26, 2018)

Tipsycatlover said:


> Whites died to free the slaves and 200 and some years later realized how badly they fucked up.


Should have shipped them back to Africa.


----------



## MizMolly (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Erinwltr said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


So, you believe without the war or if the South had won that slaves would have been free?


----------



## protectionist (May 26, 2018)

Lysistrata said:


> when did anyone shrug this off?  I'm of european backgound on both sides. My great-greats lived in NYC at the time. Please explain.


IM2 is shrugging it off continuously in this thread. He keeps saying that white Union soldiers didn't fight and die to free black slaves,  They did, and he shrugging it off.


----------



## JoeMoma (May 26, 2018)

protectionist said:


> Lysistrata said:
> 
> 
> > when did anyone shrug this off?  I'm of european backgound on both sides. My great-greats lived in NYC at the time. Please explain.
> ...


I think I have IM2 figured out:  Whites are bad and they should be made to pay!


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> there4eyeM said:
> 
> 
> > Our ancestors made mistakes, all our ancestors! We are here, now. We know all humans are one race. We know that dividing us up into groups that can be hated only serves those who want to control us. It does not serve us.
> ...



  Will you just shut the fuck up.
Your own people sold you into slavery so bagging on white people for your own faults is ridiculous.


----------



## MizMolly (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


If there had not been the Civil War, would slavery have ended when it did?


----------



## MizMolly (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> > Many of us white males have been passed over by blacks because of need to fill black women quotas. Customers complained stupid black woman could not repair machines, so boss promoted her to supervisor to get her out of doing service calls, so us white guys had to work under a ignorant racist bitch.
> ...


Thats like saying blacks arent discriminated against, that is illegal.


----------



## MizMolly (May 26, 2018)

there4eyeM said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > TroglocratsRdumb said:
> ...





there4eyeM said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > TroglocratsRdumb said:
> ...





there4eyeM said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > TroglocratsRdumb said:
> ...





IM2 said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


And whites abolished slavery.


----------



## protectionist (May 26, 2018)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Will you just shut the fuck up.
> Your own people sold you into slavery so bagging on white people for your own faults is ridiculous.


it's simple. He's a racist, and he hates whites.


----------



## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

flacaltenn said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Slyhunter said:
> ...



I'm not wrong. But you are way off. Then there is  the matter of this.



HereWeGoAgain said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > there4eyeM said:
> ...


----------



## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

protectionist said:


> Lysistrata said:
> 
> 
> > when did anyone shrug this off?  I'm of european backgound on both sides. My great-greats lived in NYC at the time. Please explain.
> ...



They didn't and no matter how many times you repeat it, doesn't change that.


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## deanrd (May 26, 2018)

Tipsycatlover said:


> Whites died to free the slaves and 200 and some years later realized how badly they fucked up.


Spoken like a true Republican.


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## deanrd (May 26, 2018)

IM2 said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> > Lysistrata said:
> ...


So what were they fighting for?  

We know the Emancipation Proclamation was signed not long after the Civil War began.  However racist  Republican white wingers want to deny it, freeing the slaves was part of it.  It was an outcome so it was part.


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## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

protectionist said:


> deanrd said:
> 
> 
> > Southern Whites, today's heart of the Republican Party, fought to keep them enslaved.
> ...



I blame whites for slavery in the United States. Because they are responsible or slavery in the United States.

The video is based on fact what you say isn't.


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## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

deanrd said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > protectionist said:
> ...



They fought for maintenance of the union. Maybe you guys watch the video?.


----------



## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

protectionist said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > There is nothing racist in what I said.
> ...



This post is about as stupid as it gets.


----------



## irosie91 (May 26, 2018)

How about we all agree that most of the people who fought in the civil war DID NOT JOIN UP BECAUSE OF SOME SORT OF NOBLE MOTIVATION TO FREE BLACK SLAVES.   --------I am willing.    Long ago----some idiot
southern Baptist told me that americans joined the military
during world war II----for the PURPOSE OF SAVING DA JOOOS.      NOPE----same stupidity


----------



## IM2 (May 26, 2018)

And since we want to talk about 1860, lets do hat.

*Viral post gets it wrong about extent of slavery in 1860*

One viral post sent to us by a reader said, "At the PEAK of slavery in 1860, only 1.4% of Americans owned slaves. What your history books doesn’t tell you is that 3,000 blacks owned a total of 20,000 slaves the same year." The post is signed, "Proud Southern Deplorable - Southern Rebel" and goes on to say, "If you're sick of the race baiting, please LIKE and SHARE."

When we took a closer look, we found that the percentage of slaveholding families was dramatically higher than what the meme said, and that the number of slaves owned by blacks was presented in a misleading way.

'At the PEAK of Slavery in 1860, Only 1.4% of Americans owned slaves.'
The primary source of data about slaves and slaveholding in 1860 is that year’s census.

Census data from 1860 isn’t perfect, said University of North Carolina historian Joseph T. Glatthaar, author of _Soldiering in the Army of Northern Virginia: A Statistical Portrait of the Troops Who Served under Robert E. Lee_. But it remains "the best evidence we have."

In the big picture, the 1860 Census counted a total of 31,443,321 people, of which 3,953,760 were slaves. So slaves accounted for 12.6 percent of the national population.

However, to address the assertion in the post requires more detailed data. Many states had outlawed slavery by 1860, so the national population figure dilutes the measurement by including many Americans whose states did not allow them to own slaves. The national population figure also includes slaves and children, and it doesn’t account either for family groupings or how many slaves a given family owned.

So experts say that a more accurate measure of slaveholding in 1860 America would focus on states that allowed slavery, and would zero in on family or household units, as a way of limiting the statistical noise caused by counting slaves and children.

"The number that really matters is how many American households in the South had slaves," said Adam Goodheart, a Washington College historian and author of _1861: The Civil War Awakening. _

Using Census data to research his book, Glatthaar calculated that 4.9 percent of people in the slaveholding states owned slaves, that 19.9 percent of family units in those states owned slaves, and that 24.9 percent of households owned slaves. (Households are a broader category than families.)

Each of these figures is significantly higher than the 1.4 percent cited in the social media post.

State-by-state figures show some variation. In Mississippi, 49 percent of families owned slaves, and in South Carolina, 46 percent did. In border states, the percentage was lower -- 3 percent in Delaware and 12 percent in Maryland. The median for slaveholding states was about 27 percent.

Using the same data, it's possible to calculate the statistic of dubious value cited in the viral image -- the percentage of all American families that owned slaves. The answer: 7.4 percent, which about five times greater than what the meme says.

It's also possible that the Census data is misleadingly low, Goodheart said.

"Many non-slaveholding whites in the South rented slaves from wealthier slaveholders," he said. "So it was very common for a white Southerner to be a 'slave master' but not technically a 'slave owner."


'3,000 blacks owned a total of 20,000 slaves the same year.'
We were unable to find hard data to debunk -- or support -- this figure.

The most solid data we found was published in an article in the Root by Henry Louis Gates Jr., a Harvard University historian. Gates cited research by Carter G. Woodson, an African-American historian who died in 1950. He found that in 1830, a total of "3,776 free Negroes owned 12,907 slaves."

With three more decades of population growth, it’s plausible that the number of black-owned slaves could have grown to 20,000 by 1860, historians told us.

"I'd imagine that the (20,000 figure) quoted in the meme is probably not that far off from being true," said Junius Rodriguez, a Eureka College historian and author of _Slavery in the United States: A Social, Political, and Historical Encyclopedia_.

But the 20,000 number is not necessarily as eye-popping as the meme makes it out to be.

For starters, even if the number is accurate, it would still account for just a tiny percentage of all slaves held in the United States in 1860 -- specifically, one half of 1 percent. That runs contrary to the post’s framing.

"That’s a very small number compared to Latin American or Caribbean societies," said Stephanie McCurry, a Columbia University historian and author of _Confederate Reckoning: Power and Politics in the Civil War South_.

In addition, the figure is almost certainly inflated by a legal quirk in most antebellum southern states.

It includes "many ‘owned’ family members whom they had purchased to become free," said Eric Foner, a Columbia University historian and the author of such books as _The Fiery Trial: Abraham Lincoln and American Slavery_. "You could not free a slave in most southern states without sending them out of the state."

Gates, writing in the Root, noted that the late historian Thomas J. Pressly used Woodson's statistics for 1830 to determine that about 42 percent of these black slaveholders owned just one slave. To Gates, this suggests that many -- though hardly all -- black "slaveholders" legally needed to "own" a family member such as a wife or child.

As Woodson wrote in his 1924 book _Free Negro Owners of Slaves in the United States_ _in 1830_, "In many instances the husband purchased the wife or vice versa. … Slaves of Negroes were in some cases the children of a free father who had purchased his wife. If he did not thereafter emancipate the mother, as so many such husbands failed to do, his own children were born his slaves and were thus reported to the numerators."

In other cases, Woodson wrote, "Benevolent Negroes often purchased slaves to make their lot easier by granting them their freedom for a nominal sum, or by permitting them to work it out on liberal terms."

Our ruling
The viral post said that "at the PEAK of slavery in 1860, only 1.4% of Americans owned slaves. What your history books doesn’t tell you is that 3,000 blacks owned a total of 20,000 slaves the same year."

In reality, far more than 1.4 percent of families in slaveholding states -- the most reasonable way to measure it -- owned slaves. The number was between 20 and 25 percent, and in some states, the rate was twice as high. As for black-owned slaves, they certainly existed, but they represented a tiny fraction of all slaves in the United States, and many were likely "owned" by their spouses or parents due to the prevailing laws in many slaveholding states.

We rate the statement False.

Viral post gets it wrong about extent of slavery in 1860


----------



## deanrd (May 27, 2018)

IM2 said:


> deanrd said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


The Confederate Constitution enshrined slavery.

Constitution of the Confederate States; March 11, 1861

The north was against slavery.  If they had accepted it, that would have preserved the union.  but they didn't.  Period.


----------



## IM2 (May 27, 2018)

When whites like you guys start talking stupid about how whites died for our freedom and how we should be grateful, there is the small matter of blacks not being allowed to fight. It had to get bad before blacks were allowed to fight. Some of you seem unable to remember this.


----------



## IM2 (May 27, 2018)

deanrd said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > deanrd said:
> ...



You are wrong. It's just that simple.


----------



## KissMy (May 27, 2018)

IM2 said:


> When whites like you guys start talking stupid about how whites died for our freedom and how we should be grateful, there is the small matter of blacks not being allowed to fight. It had to get bad before blacks were allowed to fight. Some of you seem unable to remember this.



You are a hateful racist asshole who deserves everything bad that happens to you! Those poor whites who suffered & died fighting for your freedom, do not & did not deserve your hate.


----------



## IM2 (May 27, 2018)

KissMy said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > When whites like you guys start talking stupid about how whites died for our freedom and how we should be grateful, there is the small matter of blacks not being allowed to fight. It had to get bad before blacks were allowed to fight. Some of you seem unable to remember this.
> ...



Whites like you need to get your shit straight. On one hand you can't  tell us how slavery was in he past and no one today was affected by it, then you say that we as blacks  today are free because of what people did who in all other discussions have nothing to do with today. So which one is it?

I'm repeating what Historians have produced. White historians. So if you and anyon else have a problem contact the history channel and the show in Search of History and tell them how the north fought the civil war to free the slaves.


----------



## flacaltenn (May 27, 2018)

IM2 said:


> deanrd said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



You can't have it both ways. When wars are fought -- usually BOTH SIDES agree on what the fight was about. It's EITHER about resisting a Federal Govt that wasn't operating in the interests of ALL the States OR it was about slavery. 

If you say the North fought for preservation of the Union, the South fought to DISSOLVE the Union and slavery wasn't the ONLY issue involved. In fact, it was as much about spending money on NORTHERN infrastructure, tariffs and taxes as it was about slavery.


----------



## protectionist (May 27, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Whites like you need to get your shit straight.


I have never seen anybody in USMB who uses the word* "Whites"* like this dude does.  Sure uses it a lot.


----------



## protectionist (May 27, 2018)

IM2 said:


> They fought for maintenance of the union. Maybe you guys watch the video?.


 And that's supposed to somehow conclude to us that they didn't also fight to stop slavery ?


----------



## protectionist (May 27, 2018)

IM2 said:


> I blame whites for slavery in the United States. Because they are responsible or slavery in the United States.
> 
> The video is based on fact what you say isn't.


Let's get this straight.  You are blaming people who were born 130 years after slavery ended, for that slavery of 155 years ago ?   LOL. Are you feeling OK ? I mean really.


----------



## protectionist (May 27, 2018)

IM2 said:


> This post is about as stupid as it gets.


So you have no answer/retort for it.  That is equivalent to accepting it.


----------



## protectionist (May 27, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Whites like you need to get your shit straight. On one hand you can't  tell us how slavery was in he past and no one today was affected by it, then you say that we as blacks  today are free because of what people did who in all other discussions have nothing to do with today. So which one is it?
> 
> I'm repeating what Historians have produced. White historians. So if you and anyon else have a problem contact the history channel and the show in Search of History and tell them how the north fought the civil war to free the slaves.


I'll tell anybody that the north fought to free the slaves (in addition to union preservation), including the history channel, and whoever is producing their content.


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## Ghost of a Rider (May 27, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Erinwltr said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



No it's not. Whites DID die to free blacks and you know this. You're using the Civil War to argue your point but the problem is, regardless of the reason whites fought the Civil War for, whites did fight and die to free slaves and secure civil rights for blacks.


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## Ghost of a Rider (May 27, 2018)

xband said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > xband said:
> ...



Don't take it personally, he accuses every white person who says they experienced black racism of being a liar. I know because he accused me of concocting my story of black racism. In his mind, it is inconceivable that there are black racists because apparently by some quirk of biology, blacks _can't_ be racist. Therefore, any and all whites who claim to have experienced black racism must be liars.

The irony is that he can't see that his generalized dim view of whites is one of the hallmarks of racism that he quotes to whites all the time. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic.


----------



## IM2 (May 27, 2018)

Until the 1830s, free blacks were barred from most abolitionist societies. But that has not stopped Davis from emphasizing their centrality to the abolition movement, beginning when it got off the ground in the 1780s. Free blacks combated claims of their inferiority when they became eloquent spokespeople for themselves, as in the case of Phillis Wheatley’s poetry from the revolutionary era. Davis goes against a recent emphasis on the humanity of slaves, however, when he stresses the dehumanization inherent in chattel slavery. Slaveholders took the same whips, chains, buying, selling and breeding techniques they developed for animals, and applied them to slaves. Slavery was as much a psychological form of torture as it was a physical one, with masters trying to make their slaves actually think they were beasts. Robert Burns, a slave freed after the Civil War, remembered his master telling him that “*******…couldn’t go to heaven any more than could a dog.”


Davis does not shy away from the negative consequences this animalization has had on black self-esteem, even to this day. We hear from Barack Obama, in a quote take from _Dreams of Our Father_, where he expresses surprise at the self-loathing that still persists within the black community: “What are you so surprised about,” a black man says to a young and confused Obama, “that black people still hate themselves?” Davis’s main point, however, is not that slavery destroyed blacks’ self-esteem; it’s that blacks managed to overcome it. To explain how they did so, he goes back to Haiti.

In 1804, enslaved Haitians succeeded in beating back the French, British, and Spanish empires to establish the world’s first black republic. Haiti’s existence represents “the turning point” for the antislavery movement, Davis writes, raising the previously unthinkable prospect of immediate emancipation into a full-fledged reality. Until Haiti, abolitionists focused on either gradual emancipation, or simply ending the slave trade, not slavery itself. Haiti changed that. In the short term, however, the Haitian Revolution actually slowed the official antislavery campaign. And slavery’s defenders quickly turned Haiti into an axe to bludgeon the abolitionist movement: give slaves even the slightest bit of hope, and they’ll insist on immediate freedom.

So white Americans came up with an alternative: colonization. Davis argues that the “bloodstained ghost” of Haiti—combined with a virulent racism comparatively absent in Britain—led America’s white abolitionists to favor returning slaves to Africa rather than setting them free and having them live as equals among whites. To make that idea a reality, the American Colonization Society, founded in 1816 by a coalition of white abolitionists and Southern slave-owners, created Liberia in 1822. Northern abolitionists and Southern slave-owners may have disagreed over the morality of slavery, but what united them, Davis argues, is racism.

The problem was that blacks did not want to go. The “militant reaction against colonization, initiated by blacks themselves,” Davis writes, “gave a distinctive stamp to American abolitionism.” Initially, however, some free blacks were open to the idea, in part because they thought another black republic might bring dignity to their race, and in part because they knew racism in America was only getting worse. But the scene Davis paints from a free black Philadelphia church in 1817 says it all. When James Forten, one of the city’s most prominent free blacks, put up a vote of “ayes” for those in favor of colonization, he was stunned when “there was not a soul in favor of going to Africa,” as Forten wrote.

By the 1830s, it became clear that colonization was not a viable solution. If slavery was going to end, free blacks insisted that whites accept them as equal citizens—and end slavery immediately. The white abolitionist editor William Lloyd Garrison is often remembered as the most vocal proponent of immediate emancipation, but Davis reorients readers to his black backers. It was Forten’s financial support that kept Garrison’s radical abolitionist paper, _The Liberator, _afloat, for instance. More significantly, slave rebellions both within and beyond America’s borders, coupled with slaves’ persistent attempts to runaway, hastened the calls for immediate emancipation.

But free black Americans like Frederick Douglass ultimately forced immediate emancipation to become the only real option. Britain set the precedent when, in 1838, they emancipated all its 800,000 Caribbean slaves. But Davis argues that Britain did so only when it realized it served its “national honor.” Free black Americans, he insists, played the crucial role of bringing British abolitionist pressure to bear on America. Throughout the 1840s, Douglass traveled to Britain giving lectures denouncing American slavery, winning over a comparatively less racist British public. Popular pressure then forced British leaders to take the lead in the international antislavery crusade.

Readers may not always feel that Davis’s account warrants his description of emancipation as the “greatest landmark of willed moral progress in human history.” He judiciously Davis explains all the amoral reasons for the abolitionist campaign’s success. In Britain, for instance, officials in part took up the cause as a way to deflect attention from miserable working conditions at home. And he perhaps too enthusiastically endorses the argument that promoting antislavery went against Britain’s economic self-interest. While it is true abolition destroyed Britain’s sugar and slave-trade industries, the illicit trade continued to flourish. Meanwhile, Britain’s manufacturing industry prospered from importing slave-grown American cotton. That explains why, as Davis notes, British leaders actually supported the Confederacy until it was all but certain they would lose.

How Blacks Freed Themselves from Slavery


----------



## irosie91 (May 27, 2018)

yeah?    so?


----------



## IM2 (May 27, 2018)

Ghost of a Rider said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Erinwltr said:
> ...



Nope, that did not happen. And as we see by the legal decisions made after the civil war whites did not fight to secure the civil rights of blacks. THAT, is what I know. And it is what YOU need to learn.


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## IM2 (May 27, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> yeah?    so?



Yeah, so, whites didn't die to free us.


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## katsteve2012 (May 27, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> How about we all agree that most of the people who fought in the civil war DID NOT JOIN UP BECAUSE OF SOME SORT OF NOBLE MOTIVATION TO FREE BLACK SLAVES.   --------I am willing.    Long ago----some idiot
> southern Baptist told me that americans joined the military
> during world war II----for the PURPOSE OF SAVING DA JOOOS.      NOPE----same stupidity



Finally some sense. As one who attended elementary school many decades prior to the information age, when everything was taught from outdated history books that by design excluded the accomplishments of most minorities, one of the first lies that I remember being taught in the 3rd grade was that the "Great Emancipator" really cared about the condition of the poor slaves, and made it his mission to set them free. Therefore all black people owed a  debt of gratitude for his heroic, humanitarian deed."

When I repeated that lie to my parents they promptly sat me down and told me the real truth. 

That truth is simple, and supporting evidence regarding true beliefs is out there for anyone who possesses the mental acuity to read and comprehend actual facts as opposed urban legends.

The common, uneducated, gullible explanation  is that the Civil War was fought over the moral issue of slavery, when  in fact, it was the economics of slavery and political control of that system that was central to the conflict. It was primarily about business. 

Had Lincoln lived, he would have relocated the slaves out of America, after they were supposedly "free", exactly as some of the retarded Stormfront groupies here say he should have.


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## Pumpkin Row (May 27, 2018)

IM2 said:


> *We keep getting told how whites died fighting to end slavery* therefore we as blacks, who apparently did nothing need to be grateful for the great sacrifices made by whites. First off this is a silly claim. *We are to be grateful that whites decided to fix a problem they created* and did not have to be. However, reality is that such a claim is untrue.
> 
> *New York City draft riots*
> 
> ...


_I don't really care about the riots, but I do want to point out some major errors in your post._

_First, fighting to end Slavery primarily occurred AFTER the war had ended. During the war, what was actually happening was an effort to further cripple the South's economy, which was partly reliant on slavery. You'll notice that the North, during the war, did nothing to free their own slaves, only attempt to free the South's slaves._

_Another part is that slavery was not created by 'white people', the Africans were selling each other into slavery, and had been for a VERY long time. Where do you think America got their slaves? _

_Furthermore, Slavery was not an American thing, there are still areas around the globe which STILL have slaves._

_Even further, I'd like to point out that 'black people' today have nothing to be thankful OR angry over, they were not slaves, and they do not know anyone who was a slave, continuing to whine about slavery that they never experienced, or claiming that 'white people' said that they should be thankful that it ended is simply an excuse to be outraged. What they are doing when complaining about the Civil War era is just perpetuating the racism that they claim is rampant. If certain people would like to complain about racism or slavery, then move to a location in which it's still active, THEN complain all you like._


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## IM2 (May 27, 2018)

Pumpkin Row said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > *We keep getting told how whites died fighting to end slavery* therefore we as blacks, who apparently did nothing need to be grateful for the great sacrifices made by whites. First off this is a silly claim. *We are to be grateful that whites decided to fix a problem they created* and did not have to be. However, reality is that such a claim is untrue.
> ...



There are no errors in my post. Yours however is full of them. Almost every word you post is either erroneous or disingenuous. .


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## irosie91 (May 27, 2018)

IM2 said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > yeah?    so?
> ...



so?


----------



## Moonglow (May 27, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


Are yous guys still pissed at the Pharoh about dat slavery thingy?


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## irosie91 (May 27, 2018)

Moonglow said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



yes----Yul Brenner deserved EVERTHING he got


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## Moonglow (May 27, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


See what happens when a man bun is in style?


----------



## Moonglow (May 27, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > How about we all agree that most of the people who fought in the civil war DID NOT JOIN UP BECAUSE OF SOME SORT OF NOBLE MOTIVATION TO FREE BLACK SLAVES.   --------I am willing.    Long ago----some idiot
> ...


Are you more pissed at the gadfly or the outcome of the end of slavery?


----------



## MaryL (May 27, 2018)

IM2 said:


> We keep getting told how whites died fighting to end slavery therefore we as blacks, who apparently did nothing need to be grateful for the great sacrifices made by whites. First off this is a silly claim. We are to be grateful that whites decided to fix a problem they created and did not have to be. However, reality is that such a claim is untrue.
> 
> *New York City draft riots*
> 
> ...


Silly me, thinking all those men that fought and died in the civil war ended slavery. Apparently  they didn't amount to squat, because  IM2 says so. So let's say in an alternate universe, Lincoln accepted the confederacy and let bygones be bygones.  When and whom would have ended slavery? And, lets overlook the sheer fact slavery was a profitable trade Muslim  Arabs and Black Africans indulged in. And still do. Let's ignore that tiny tiny little factor, shall we?


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## IM2 (May 27, 2018)

MaryL said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > We keep getting told how whites died fighting to end slavery therefore we as blacks, who apparently did nothing need to be grateful for the great sacrifices made by whites. First off this is a silly claim. We are to be grateful that whites decided to fix a problem they created and did not have to be. However, reality is that such a claim is untrue.
> ...



All I have said is that whites did not die to free slaves. Whites had slavery in Europe, ask the serfs. Whites make huge money of slavery today also. Ask the sex SLAVES. So let's not deny things and just recognize the  wrongs whites have done here to people of color in a nation where whites have bragged about all the many great freedoms they offer everybody.


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## Dogmaphobe (May 27, 2018)

IM2 said:


> We keep getting told how whites died fighting to end slavery therefore we as blacks, who apparently did nothing need to be grateful for the great sacrifices made by whites. First off this is a silly claim. We are to be grateful that whites decided to fix a problem they created and did not have to be. However, reality is that such a claim is untrue.
> 
> *New York City draft riots*
> 
> ...


when are you going to free yourself from slavery, IM2?

You wear it as a yoke around your neck.  You perpetuate it even when it does not exist. You sustain is, you require it. You look for it in everything.  You NEED it.  You have never experienced it, yet you are incapable of letting it go.

 The only person who can free you from slavery is yourself, yet you cling to it like a junky clings to heroin.  

It's sad to watch, really.


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## IM2 (May 27, 2018)

Dogmaphobe said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > We keep getting told how whites died fighting to end slavery therefore we as blacks, who apparently did nothing need to be grateful for the great sacrifices made by whites. First off this is a silly claim. We are to be grateful that whites decided to fix a problem they created and did not have to be. However, reality is that such a claim is untrue.
> ...



What's sad is how whites like you are so stupid as to say shit like this and think it makes sense.


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## Pumpkin Row (May 27, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Pumpkin Row said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


_Yet, you have failed to debunk any of it. If you're not capable of citing the specific 'errors' or 'correcting' them, then my post must be flawless._


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## Dogmaphobe (May 27, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


You are just SO full of racist hatred, aren't you?


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## Ghost of a Rider (May 27, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Ghost of a Rider said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



So what are these people, black albinos?


----------



## irosie91 (May 27, 2018)

IM2 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



so true----whites had slaves and blacks had slaves and yellows had slaves and reds had slaves--------if there had been greens----they would have had slaves too


----------



## MaryL (May 27, 2018)

IM2 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


BZZT! Wrong. Lay off the pedantic BS.  What if Lincoln accepted the southern succession, and washed his hands? ​You never actually answered  my question.  Do you in a million years think blacks  spontaneously  just magically freed themselves?   What universe do you live in?


----------



## IM2 (May 27, 2018)

MaryL said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > MaryL said:
> ...



What I do know is that whites did not free us. That's reality.


----------



## IM2 (May 27, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > MaryL said:
> ...



There is way more attached to what happened to blacks here in America than his simple minded post.


----------



## MaryL (May 27, 2018)

IM2 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


You are deluded, so Ok, great. The  earth is flat and you have a pet unicorn. Sorry, not sharing your delusion.


----------



## MaryL (May 27, 2018)

So, all those dead white guys that fought in the civil war, their lives  are meaningless, according to IM2.  Somehow, ignoring the past black African/Muslim Arab slave traders and centering on whites instead,
as the favorite whipping boy of any historical transgressions. But wait a minute! Hold on here, black American slaves just pulled themselves up out of slavery by their boot heels? IM2 says so, No Muss, no fuss.  Um, I must have missed that delicate little side note in history class. When did this mysterious event happen?


----------



## irosie91 (May 27, 2018)

IM2 said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



"there is way more attached....."   is a simple minded statement


----------



## irosie91 (May 27, 2018)

MaryL said:


> So, all those dead white guys that fought in the civil war, their lives  are meaningless, according to IM2.  Somehow, ignoring the past black African/Muslim Arab slave traders and centering on whites instead,
> as the favorite whipping boy of any historical transgressions. But wait a minute! Hold on here, black American slaves just pulled themselves up out of slavery by their boot heels? IM2 says so, No Muss, no fuss.  Um, I must have missed that delicate little side note in history class. When did this mysterious event happen?



Leave it alone,   Mary----the fact is that the "white" people of the USA have no  "patting themselves on the back"   rights for the
emancipation proclamation------IM2 is---a bit distressed by his legacy of enslavement and is JUSTIFIABLY not willing to say THINK YOU  to the "whites"  of the USA.     In fact----there are lots of people who have no moral NEED to thank the  "whites"  of the USA-------even the IRISH immigrants-------and  DA INJUNS--------and da wops and da kikes and da spicks----------and-----
and-----and-----


----------



## IM2 (May 27, 2018)

Ghost of a Rider said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Ghost of a Rider said:
> ...



Why is it that you want to give whites credit for things they did not lead?  Things they were faces in the crowd for but not responsible for doing?  How much more dishonest can you get? 1white person dies in a  civil rights protest and you want to claim whites died for our civil rights like they organized and led the march. 300 blacks may have been beaten and killed, the organizers are black and have had their lives threatened but we must only recognize that one white so your white ass can feel good about yourself. I'm not going to do that. Whites had no real role in civil tights leadership or organization. Yes there were whites who showed up, but blacks were the organizers and creators of organizations and groups that made it happen. If blacks had not done these things whites weren't going to.


----------



## IM2 (May 27, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > So, all those dead white guys that fought in the civil war, their lives  are meaningless, according to IM2.  Somehow, ignoring the past black African/Muslim Arab slave traders and centering on whites instead,
> ...



What for? They did not free blacks anywhere that was the United States at that time.


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## IM2 (May 27, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



No your comment was simple minded.


----------



## IM2 (May 27, 2018)

MaryL said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > MaryL said:
> ...



The only deluded person here is you.


----------



## MaryL (May 27, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Ghost of a Rider said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


You lost me, I do believe you honestly believe what you are posting, I will give you that. The simple fact is the institution of slavery ended in 1865, as a direct result of white men loosing their lives. And   left handed albino midget contrarians cant make that  simple fact go away. Nice try try, bucko.


----------



## IM2 (May 27, 2018)

MaryL said:


> So, all those dead white guys that fought in the civil war, their lives  are meaningless, according to IM2.  Somehow, ignoring the past black African/Muslim Arab slave traders and centering on whites instead,
> as the favorite whipping boy of any historical transgressions. But wait a minute! Hold on here, black American slaves just pulled themselves up out of slavery by their boot heels? IM2 says so, No Muss, no fuss.  Um, I must have missed that delicate little side note in history class. When did this mysterious event happen?



You missed a lot of things in history class.  Whites did not die to free blacks. There will be no talking about Arabs or Africans since they did not create the US constitution. Whites should not have done what they did.


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## irosie91 (May 27, 2018)

IM2 said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



open your head --------you and yours are not the only victims of bigotry


----------



## irosie91 (May 27, 2018)

IM2 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > So, all those dead white guys that fought in the civil war, their lives  are meaningless, according to IM2.  Somehow, ignoring the past black African/Muslim Arab slave traders and centering on whites instead,
> ...


\

I never learned in MY history classes that whites died to save blacks   (except a few ----not a big deal)      You are right---whites did not die to save blacks in the USA.   ----and guess what------black servicemen in world war II did not die to save jews.  ----It is a commonly held belief based on islamo Nazi propaganda that the US entered world war II----TO SAVE DA JEWS.     I would not be surprised if there are some blacks OUT THERE who believe that BS


----------



## MaryL (May 27, 2018)

IM2 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > So, all those dead white guys that fought in the civil war, their lives  are meaningless, according to IM2.  Somehow, ignoring the past black African/Muslim Arab slave traders and centering on whites instead,
> ...


Well ,I can only speak for rational human beings that live on earth. And YES, Virginia , white people died in huge numbers to set blacks free! Historical fact. 1861 there was slavery, four years later , civil war, 1865, slavery was gone. Look it up, Einstein. Jesus Christ, some people's kids...


----------



## IM2 (May 27, 2018)

MaryL said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Ghost of a Rider said:
> ...



That's not what historians say. What you say doesn't matter because you haven't done the study and research to be informed. People have found out a whole lot more about things than they did when you were in grade school.


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## irosie91 (May 28, 2018)

MaryL said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > MaryL said:
> ...




no mary-----the freeing of slaves was a kinda unintended consequence of the events.     It was not the galvanizing force that drove the Civil War.     Sorry----but no brownie points for the   "WHITES"  this time


----------



## MaryL (May 28, 2018)

IM2 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


Oh my god, you are incorrigible and deluded.  Adjust your tinfoil hat and take your meds. I am through with this pathetic thread. 


i am through with this pathetic thread.


----------



## IM2 (May 28, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > MaryL said:
> ...



My father fought in the European theatre and took a bullet for a nation that did let him vote when he came back home. He did fight to stop Hitler. Had he been in the pacific theatre that would have been a different story So your comparison is stupid.


----------



## IM2 (May 28, 2018)

MaryL said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > MaryL said:
> ...



I know the truth is hard for some of you racists to take.


----------



## IM2 (May 28, 2018)

MaryL said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > MaryL said:
> ...



Nope. It just didn't happen that way.


----------



## MikeK (May 28, 2018)

there4eyeM said:


> We know all humans are one race.


We do?  

Would we also say there are no sub-species in the primate order?


----------



## Correll (May 28, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Until the 1830s....ry




So, you're not going to address any of those massive holes I pointed out in your op?

About how the rioters, angry over the Civil War, attacked blacks and abolitionists?


Which shows that they, people at the time, being asked to fight in the war, believed it to be about slavery.


----------



## katsteve2012 (May 28, 2018)

Moonglow said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



Actually I am.not pissed about anything. I just prefer accurate accounts of history.


----------



## Taz (May 28, 2018)

If the Civil War wasn't partly about freeing the slaves then why were they freed?


----------



## protectionist (May 28, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Until the 1830s, free blacks were barred from most abolitionist societies. But that has not stopped Davis from emphasizing their centrality to the abolition movement, beginning when it got off the ground in the 1780s. Free blacks combated claims of their inferiority when they became eloquent spokespeople for themselves, as in the case of Phillis Wheatley’s poetry from the revolutionary era. Davis goes against a recent emphasis on the humanity of slaves, however, when he stresses the dehumanization inherent in chattel slavery. Slaveholders took the same whips, chains, buying, selling and breeding techniques they developed for animals, and applied them to slaves. Slavery was as much a psychological form of torture as it was a physical one, with masters trying to make their slaves actually think they were beasts. Robert Burns, a slave freed after the Civil War, remembered his master telling him that “*******…couldn’t go to heaven any more than could a dog.”
> 
> 
> Davis does not shy away from the negative consequences this animalization has had on black self-esteem, even to this day. We hear from Barack Obama, in a quote take from _Dreams of Our Father_, where he expresses surprise at the self-loathing that still persists within the black community: “What are you so surprised about,” a black man says to a young and confused Obama, “that black people still hate themselves?” Davis’s main point, however, is not that slavery destroyed blacks’ self-esteem; it’s that blacks managed to overcome it. To explain how they did so, he goes back to Haiti.
> ...


Can you sum this up in 3 sentences or less ?  We want to start off the day without getting sick.


----------



## protectionist (May 28, 2018)

Taz said:


> If the Civil War wasn't partly about freeing the slaves then why were they freed?


I seem to recall you asking this a few days ago.  Still no answer ?


----------



## Ghost of a Rider (May 28, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Ghost of a Rider said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



If you were talking about who _led_ the fight to end slavery and for civil rights then you should have said so in the OP. However, you never made any such distinctions in the OP or in any of your posts in this discussion, you only claimed that whites never fought.  



> If blacks had not done these things whites weren't going to.



Again, that wasn't the point of the OP. The point was only that whites never fought. But we both know this to be false, don't we?


----------



## irosie91 (May 28, 2018)

IM2 said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



your idiotic post   IM2------is not at all responsive to my post.     My father was in
the North Atlantic-----also fighting  "HITLER"------so?


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## irosie91 (May 28, 2018)

Taz said:


> If the Civil War wasn't partly about freeing the slaves then why were they freed?



It was,  for most of the involved parties, 
an unintended consquence


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## Taz (May 28, 2018)

protectionist said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > If the Civil War wasn't partly about freeing the slaves then why were they freed?
> ...


Nope. The White Beaters have no answer for this one.


----------



## Taz (May 28, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > If the Civil War wasn't partly about freeing the slaves then why were they freed?
> ...


Sorry, no it wasn't, here are a bunch of quotes from Southern diplomats... explaining that slavery was a central component to the war.

Selected Quotations


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## irosie91 (May 28, 2018)

MikeK said:


> there4eyeM said:
> 
> 
> > We know all humans are one race.
> ...



"sub-species"   ???----that would more commonly be called a  "strain".    It has virtually no meaning in the species 
Homo-sapien because of extensive interbreeding


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## Unkotare (May 28, 2018)

IM2 said:


> We keep getting told how whites died fighting to end slavery ......




An awful lot of people did die fighting a war that ultimately ended slavery. Do you deny this?


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## protectionist (May 28, 2018)

Taz said:


> Nope. The White Beaters have no answer for this one.


Sure looks that way. I've been hearing crickets ever since you asked that question.


----------



## irosie91 (May 28, 2018)

Taz said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...



a 35 year collection of comments by pro-slavery people.    How about a nice 35 year collection of the comments of SOUTHERN anti-slavery people?


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## protectionist (May 28, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> An awful lot of people did die fighting a war that ultimately ended slavery. Do you deny this?


That's exactly what he's been doing for a few days now, while adding that whites get no credit - despite 300,000 Union deaths (many more severely wounded)


----------



## protectionist (May 28, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> a 35 year collection of comments by pro-slavery people.    How about a nice 35 year collection of the comments of SOUTHERN anti-slavery people?


Most southern whites (especially in mountain areas) never even heard of slavery. Many lived their entire lives never having seen a black person, or even knew they existed.


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## Taz (May 28, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


If you can find any...


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## irosie91 (May 28, 2018)

protectionist said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > a 35 year collection of comments by pro-slavery people.    How about a nice 35 year collection of the comments of SOUTHERN anti-slavery people?
> ...



so true----another boring personal anecdote-----my mom followed my dad
to FLORIDA----when he was in the Navy 
during world war II.   She roomed in a private house of a local doc and his wife---
Sunday came around and the friendly lady
invited mom to church.   Mom said---"oh--
I don't go--I am a jew"   My mom told me that the lady was SHOCKED and kinda
denied it with  "BUT  YOU LOOK JUST LIKE US"    People were very ---provincial
just 75 years ago------barely left their little
10 mile areas.    One hundred and fifty years ago they were CLUELESS.   I have more stories from my own childhood OUT 
IN THE STICKS OF NEW JERSEY.   HOWEVER there were very ardent anti-
slavery people back then---pre civil war.  
The vast majority of people just clueless. 
Out in the sticks of New Jersey----well--nevah mind


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## irosie91 (May 28, 2018)

Taz said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...



Depends upon where you look.    In general---such records are not stored in
the Library of the  GRAND WIZARD OF 
THE KLAN


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (May 28, 2018)




----------



## katsteve2012 (May 28, 2018)

Taz said:


> If the Civil War wasn't partly about freeing the slaves then why were they freed?



Seriously? The intent was to cripple the souths economic system, and force them back into the union. 

Which is why the emancipation proclamation only freed the slaves who were in the confederate states.


----------



## Taz (May 28, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > If the Civil War wasn't partly about freeing the slaves then why were they freed?
> ...


If it wasn't about slavery, nobody would have freed them.


----------



## Unkotare (May 28, 2018)

Toward the end of the war, even the Confederate traitors were considering emancipation in exchange for military service.


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## katsteve2012 (May 28, 2018)

Taz said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...



If the most potent leverage to use against the confederacy happened to be the role of slavery in heir economy, it is obvious that slavery would be what would be attacked.

You have not read much about what led to the Civil War?


----------



## Taz (May 28, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
> ...


You just don't know your own history. Pity.


----------



## MizMolly (May 28, 2018)

IM2 said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> > deanrd said:
> ...


Yes, whites who had slaves and brought slaves to this country were responsible. WERE, as in past tense.


----------



## MizMolly (May 28, 2018)

IM2 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


African American human trafficking statistics will astound you!
Blacks make huge amounts of money off sex slaves today.


----------



## MizMolly (May 28, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Ghost of a Rider said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


Nobody has said to recognize only whites who helped with civil rights issues. YOU are the one who denies whites took part at all.


----------



## katsteve2012 (May 28, 2018)

Taz said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...



It's bad form to promote your ignorance publicly. 

It sounds like you never progressed beyond elementary school history topics.


----------



## IM2 (May 28, 2018)

Ghost of a Rider said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Ghost of a Rider said:
> ...



No, the OP said whites did not fight to end slavery.  And they didn't.


----------



## IM2 (May 28, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



Your post was the idiotic one. I'm black and haven't heard that tale you say about blacks fighting t save jews. My father and uncles fought in that wars and they didn't say that. But they did save jews. They did not fight then after the war ended create another system that made jews second class citizens then claim they are responsible for freeing the jews like you retard white racists try to do. So your presentation of a straw man shows that you're just another moron who happens to be white and unable to accept that a black person doesn't kiss your asses thankful to you whites for our freedom.


----------



## MizMolly (May 28, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Ghost of a Rider said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


You have no idea what they were fighting for. Many people go to war, not all that fight are fighting for the same reason. You don't know that many of those white men fighting the Civil War may have been fighting to free the slaves, since very few white people even owned slaves.


----------



## irosie91 (May 28, 2018)

IM2 said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



wrong again----I did not say that  BLACKS claimed to have joined up to  SAVE THE JEWS------I said that white southern Baptists made that claim.    I am a NORTHERN JEW------I never heard a jew claim that  white northern jews  "FREED THE SLAVES"


----------



## IM2 (May 28, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



Well I have been told multiple times and you see by the reaction here of your fellow whites how they believe whites died in the civil war to free blacks. Jew or not. In fact a Jew from the south cosigned it in a post here in this thread.


----------



## MaryL (May 28, 2018)

Oy vey, not this again. IM2 contends that...for starters, many  northern whites didn't fight the rebels to end slavery. That may be true, Lincoln himself was conflicted on slavery. But IM2 is not seeing the forest for the trees here, regardless of the intent of the federal government, the effect was the  TOTAL and absolute abolition of slavery. And with that, There isn't much else to add.


----------



## Ghost of a Rider (May 28, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Ghost of a Rider said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



So then why did you bring up the matter of who started and led the fight for Civil Rights? You wrote an entire paragraph on it for Christ's sake. Besides, you can't tell me you've never heard of John Brown and the Harper's Ferry Raid.


----------



## IM2 (May 28, 2018)

Ghost of a Rider said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Ghost of a Rider said:
> ...



It's just this simple, whites did not fight in the civil war to free blacks from slavery. I posted what I did because of this link YOU posted fool.

http://www.canyon-news.com/music-bring-americans-together/68829


----------



## IM2 (May 28, 2018)

MaryL said:


> Oy vey, not this again. IM2 contends that...for starters, many  northern whites didn't fight the rebels to end slavery. That may be true, Lincoln himself was conflicted on slavery. But IM2 is not seeing the forest for the trees here, regardless of the intent of the federal government, the effect was the  TOTAL and absolute abolition of slavery. And with that, There isn't much else to add.



I see fine. The fact is that whites did not fight to free blacks from slavery.


----------



## MaryL (May 28, 2018)

IM2 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > Oy vey, not this again. IM2 contends that...for starters, many  northern whites didn't fight the rebels to end slavery. That may be true, Lincoln himself was conflicted on slavery. But IM2 is not seeing the forest for the trees here, regardless of the intent of the federal government, the effect was the  TOTAL and absolute abolition of slavery. And with that, There isn't much else to add.
> ...


But, despite them and you, that's exactly what DID happen, Abolition and the end of slavery in America. Ever hear of unintended consequences ? Who knows  what lurks in the subconscious minds of people that have been dead over 150 years. Certainly not you. But slavery ended because white people died to end it. Why are you so threated by that? Facts are facts.


----------



## Ghost of a Rider (May 28, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Ghost of a Rider said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



Regardless what the consensus was among union soldiers about the issue of slavery, some of them, in fact, fought to end it and felt that was their personal reason for fighting in the war.

Here is a website that has quotes taken from union soldiers' letters about slavery and why they fought.   

A couple of quotes:

"… _Our Government handles slavery as tenderly as a mother would her firstborn… When shall it be stricken down as the deadly enemy of freedom, virtue, and mankind?_” 

"_… As long as we ignore the fact (practically) that Slavery is the basis of this struggle_ (the Civil War) _so long are we simply [cutting] down a vigorously growing plant that will continually spring up and give new trouble at very short intervals. We must emancipate.” _


----------



## IM2 (May 29, 2018)

Ghost of a Rider said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Ghost of a Rider said:
> ...



You are pathetic. You want us to credit the entire white race for a few when the majority did not give a damn about slaves. Second, you want to make this claim even though whites did not let blacks fight for most of the fucking war. If every white had fought for slavery, they were fighting to correct a mistake whites themselves made.


----------



## IM2 (May 29, 2018)

MaryL said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > MaryL said:
> ...



You are pathetic also. You want us to credit the entire white race for a few when the majority did not give a damn about slaves. Second, you want to make this claim even though whites did not let blacks fight for most of the fucking war. If every white had fought for slavery, they were fighting to correct a mistake whites themselves made. "Facts are Facts", you said. So why are you so threatened by them?


----------



## Wyatt earp (May 29, 2018)

Erinwltr said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > protectionist said:
> ...



He is a mentally ill race baitor , a one trick pony..


----------



## IM2 (May 29, 2018)

bear513 said:


> Erinwltr said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



That would be you.


----------



## Wyatt earp (May 29, 2018)

IM2 said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > Erinwltr said:
> ...



I wonder if you even are black.

Probably another white pretending to be black.


----------



## IM2 (May 29, 2018)

bear513 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...



Another dumb ass white who actually can't believe there are blacks who can't stand white racism.


----------



## Wyatt earp (May 29, 2018)

IM2 said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



Youre white...


----------



## Wyatt earp (May 29, 2018)

bear513 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...




I will bet you a grand on it.. you are not black..


----------



## squeeze berry (May 29, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Erinwltr said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...




  if the Union cause was to restore the union and not free the slaves then the southern cause was to secede from the union and not slavery

you can,t  have it both ways OP


----------



## Taz (May 29, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
> ...


Are you talking to a mirror?


----------



## katsteve2012 (May 29, 2018)

Taz said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...



Are you talking to ypurself?


----------



## IM2 (May 29, 2018)

squeeze berry said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Erinwltr said:
> ...



As the video shows and states, northern whites didn't fight to free the slaves and damn sure southern whites didn't.


----------



## IM2 (May 29, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
> ...



Apparently he is.


----------



## Taz (May 29, 2018)

IM2 said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...


So IM2, we haven't heard from you on this, so if the Civil War wasn't partly about slavery, then why were the slaves freed? If it was just about conserving the Union, slaves would not have been freed. Agree?


----------



## Flash (May 29, 2018)

MizMolly said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Ghost of a Rider said:
> ...




My great, great, great grandfather was a Confederate soldier.  He joined the 9th Florida Regiment.

We know why he fought because he wrote letters.  Almost 200 of them and they have been donated to the Library at the University of Florida.  Anybody with access to the library can go read them.

He joined the army after Lincoln said he was going to raise an army to invade the South and kill Southerners.

He was protecting his home.

He fought in the Battle of Olustee, which was an invasion of Florida by the filthy Union Army.

Later on he was sent to defend Richmond from the Yankee invasion.  He fought at the Battle of Cold Harbor.

After the war he did not accept the parole by taking the loyalty oath.  He just left and walked home to Florida from Virginia.  It took him six months.  No I-95 back then.

Nothing about slavery in his letters.  He was a farmer and rancher and didn't own slaves.  The letters also indicate a Libertarian view of things.  He decided to fight when he felt threaten.  I suspect that was the motivation by most Confederate soldiers.


----------



## squeeze berry (May 29, 2018)

Flash said:


> MizMolly said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


  the race pimps don't want to hear that.
everything has to revolve around them


----------



## IM2 (May 29, 2018)

Taz said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
> ...



No. Slaves were only freed in the confederate states which at the time was not part of the union therefore they did not have to abide by the EP. '


----------



## IM2 (May 29, 2018)

squeeze berry said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > MizMolly said:
> ...



It's funny how you racists tell your stories. Nobody white owed slaves. Yes you race pimps don't want to admit that whites did not fight to free blacks from slavery.


----------



## Taz (May 29, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


So if it wasn't partly about the slaves, then why free them?


----------



## Flash (May 29, 2018)

IM2 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > Flash said:
> ...




We have the documentation that my GF did not own slaves.  He was fighting to protect his home from an invasion by assholes.  The Union sent an invasion force to kill Floridians and destroy Floridian homes and my GF fought against that.  He was a real patriot.

It is funny how that shithead Lincoln's narrative on the war was that it was to "save the Union" until so many of his White soldier got killed that he need the Negroes to be cannon fodder.  Then the narrative suddenly changed to "free the fucking slaves".  That was one of the most racists things ever done by an American President.


----------



## Ghost of a Rider (May 29, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Ghost of a Rider said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



I said "..._some of them_...". I didn't say anything about crediting the entire white race. Can't you read? 

Your problem from the beginning is that you are only able to view these things in terms of absolutes and sweeping generalities. If ALL whites did not fight to end slavery then NONE of them did. If ALL whites did not fight for civil rights then NONE of them did. If ALL blacks are not racist then NONE of them are. If SOME whites are racist then ALL of them are. If SOME whites are not racist then ALL of them are.

Because you insist on seeing beyond white=evil racist/black=good victim, you are incapable of seeing the whole truth. 



> Second, you want to make this claim even though whites did not let blacks fight for most of the fucking war. If every white had fought for slavery, they were fighting to correct a mistake whites themselves made.



The whites who were against slavery and fought to end it and fought for civil rights did not create the mistake.


----------



## dannyboys (May 29, 2018)

Erinwltr said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


The average IQ of a negro in the US is in the low eighties.
Does anyone really believe they give a shit about the REP soldiers who lost their lives trying to free the slaves?
bell curve iq - Google Search:


----------



## dannyboys (May 29, 2018)

Erinwltr said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > for IM2.     TRUE---most people who fought in the civil war or lived during that time did not die to free slaves---
> ...


bell curve iq - Google Search:


----------



## squeeze berry (May 29, 2018)

IM2 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > Flash said:
> ...




my point: then whites did not fight to keep slaves.

that's your logic


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## Flash (May 29, 2018)

squeeze berry said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > squeeze berry said:
> ...




In his letters my GF said that he fought to protect his family.

By the way, he was distrustful of all government for the most part, including the Confederate government.  He just wanted to be left alone.  That asshole Lincoln threaten him by declaring that an army was to be raised to kill Southerners.   

There were four of the Confederate states that first voted not to secede over that asshole Lincoln being elected  but then later changed their minds when that asshole Lincoln declared he was going to kill Southerners.  

Speaking of slavery the US is the slave country.

It had slavery for almost 100 years before the Civil War, during the Civil War and for almost a year afterwards.  The Confederacy was a slave nation for only a fraction of the time the US was slave.  Slavery was a legal on the Federal level even during the war.

That asshole Lincoln didn't even end slavery in the Union.  West Virginia was allowed to keep their slaves as was Maryland and the occupied territory around New Orleans.  Slaves fortified DC during the war.   The "Emancipation Proclamation" really didn't emancipate anybody for the most part,

The problem with most dumbass Americans is that they only have a Jr High School history textbook knowledge of the Civil War, written by the winners.

The US flag is the flag of slavery.  It even continues today with the welfare state.

.


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## squeeze berry (May 29, 2018)

today the history books are written by neo-marxists


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## Flash (May 29, 2018)

Every Union soldier fought for slavery because slavery was a legal institution in the US during the Civil War.  To "preserve the Union" meant to preserve the laws of the US that included slavery.


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## katsteve2012 (May 29, 2018)

squeeze berry said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > squeeze berry said:
> ...



Yes, they did fight to keep slaves.

 Belief in  states rights, as well as an agriculturally based economy that was dependent upon slave labor was the souths position for maintaining slavery in that region, and  was the souths reason for fighting the war.

Furthermore, the prospect of allowing slavery to encroach upon the northern states and potentially affect a predominately white, manual labor workforce, was not going to be allowed to happen.

Slaves were freed by default, to save the country.

Had Lincoln lived, he would most likely have  ordered a roundup of all former slaves and either recolonized them, or let them starve to death, or be lynched into eventual exinction by trying to survive under Jim Crow laws.


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## protectionist (May 29, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> so true----another boring personal anecdote-----my mom followed my dad
> to FLORIDA----when he was in the Navy
> during world war II.   She roomed in a private house of a local doc and his wife---
> Sunday came around and the friendly lady
> ...


And in the Civil War days, they didn't have TV, radio, computers, etc, and if they had a newspaper, they probably couldn't read it anyway.


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## protectionist (May 29, 2018)

Flash said:


> Every Union soldier fought for slavery because slavery was a legal institution in the US during the Civil War.  To "preserve the Union" meant to preserve the laws of the US that included slavery.


FALSE!  Exactly the opposite is true.  Every Union soldier fought to EXclude slavery, because  slavery was NOT a legal institution in the US during the Civil War.  It was banned by the Emancipation Proclamation.


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## protectionist (May 29, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Seriously? The intent was to cripple the souths economic system, and force them back into the union.
> 
> Which is why the emancipation proclamation only freed the slaves who were in the confederate states.


If the Civil War wasn't partly about freeing the slaves, they would not have been freed.


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## protectionist (May 29, 2018)

MizMolly said:


> Yes, whites who had slaves and brought slaves to this country were responsible. WERE, as in past tense.


And even within that past tense, those  whites who had slaves and brought slaves to this country, were a tiny % of all American whites.


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## Unkotare (May 29, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...







This is a misreading of the trajectory of Lincoln’s growth.


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## katsteve2012 (May 29, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > squeeze berry said:
> ...



How so? What was left behind were nothing but his statements on what he planned to do going forward.


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## Flash (May 29, 2018)

protectionist said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > Every Union soldier fought for slavery because slavery was a legal institution in the US during the Civil War.  To "preserve the Union" meant to preserve the laws of the US that included slavery.
> ...




This post shows the ignorance of idiots that got their knowledge of the Civil War from a pathetic Jr High School history book written by the winners.

The reason that asshole Lincoln sent troops to kill Americans was to "preserve the Union".  That was the reason for the war until the Union dead started mounting up and they needed the Black cannon fodder.

Slavery was legal on the Federal level all during the Civil War.  The filthy ass union soldiers ere fighting to preserve Federal control, which included the laws that legalized slavery.


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## protectionist (May 29, 2018)

Taz said:


> So IM2, we haven't heard from you on this, so if the Civil War wasn't partly about slavery, then why were the slaves freed? If it was just about conserving the Union, slaves would not have been freed. Agree?


I would tend to agree with that.  If there's a war, but the war is not about cows grazing, cows will continue to graze.  If it's not about fishermen fishing, fishermen will continue to fish.  Duh!


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## protectionist (May 29, 2018)

All in all, this is a dumb thread. We're all arguing with a nutjob, who keeps saying what we all know isn't true, and is downright ridiculous, as well as offensive.


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## IM2 (May 29, 2018)

protectionist said:


> All in all, this is a dumb thread. We're all arguing with a nutjob, who keeps saying what we all know isn't true, and is downright ridiculous, as well as offensive.



Apparently you don't know, because the OP was  based on what historians say based on study and research..


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## IM2 (May 29, 2018)

protectionist said:


> MizMolly said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, whites who had slaves and brought slaves to this country were responsible. WERE, as in past tense.
> ...



Doesn't matter because all whites benefitted from the things slavery produced.


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## protectionist (May 29, 2018)

IM2 said:


> It's funny how you racists tell your stories. Nobody white owed slaves. Yes you race pimps don't want to admit that whites did not fight to free blacks from slavery.


Is there a doctor in the house ?  Seriously.


----------



## protectionist (May 29, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Doesn't matter because all whites benefitted from the things slavery produced.


Blacks benefitted too.  Before coming to America, they lived in mud huts, had no medical defenses against disease, got killed by lions and hippos, and went around chasing monkeys for food.  Even slavery, with food, clothing, shelter, and medical care, was a step up for them.


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## protectionist (May 29, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Apparently you don't know, because the OP was  based on what historians say based on study and research..


_"what historians say based on study and research.."_  Classic liberal MO.  Go find some liberal professor or think tank who says what you want to hear, and then go around touting their line, as if we all had to believe it, because those guys are sooo well-educated and respectable. LOL.

It's like I said .. If you have a war that's not about cows grazing, cows will continue to graze.


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## Wyatt earp (May 29, 2018)

bear513 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...



I figured him out..


----------



## Unkotare (May 29, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
> ...






 Just three days before he was assassinated, Lincoln openly supported the notion of voting rights for free blacks.


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## MizMolly (May 29, 2018)

IM2 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > Flash said:
> ...


Where did anyone say whites didnt own slaves? The majority of whites did not. If nobody fought to free slaves, how did they get free?


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## MizMolly (May 29, 2018)

IM2 said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> > MizMolly said:
> ...


More bullshit. Poor whites stayed poor


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## IM2 (May 29, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



He had to after Frederick Douglas and Sojourner Truth told him blacks were not going back to Africa like he wanted.


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## protectionist (May 29, 2018)

IM2 said:


> He had to after Frederick Douglas and Sojourner Truth told him blacks were not going back to Africa like he wanted.


So how does that compel him to advocate for voting rights for free blacks ?  Looks like Unkotare's post is valid.

The fact is blacks didn't have to be freed, be given voting rights, or get anything from the US govt.  They got what they got, because it was intended to be that way.


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## basquebromance (May 30, 2018)

like the schoolyard bully, our criminal justice system harasses people on small pretext but is exposed as a coward before murder. 

it hauls masses of black men through its machinery but fails to protect them from dying. it is at once oppressive and inadequate.


----------



## IM2 (May 30, 2018)

protectionist said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > He had to after Frederick Douglas and Sojourner Truth told him blacks were not going back to Africa like he wanted.
> ...



Actually we did have to be allowed all those things.


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## Taz (May 30, 2018)

The Civil War was partly about freeing the slaves, otherwise the slaves wouldn't have been freed.


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## IM2 (May 30, 2018)

*The “Go back to Africa” argument* says that if black people do not like it in America, they should go back to Africa. Mostly it is not an argument about Africa but *about the kindness of white people*. It  makes the point that White Americans have been nicer to black people than anyone else in the world, even nicer than black Africans would be.

*Pat Buchanan* loves this argument and makes it more directly. Here he is in *2008*:

First, America has been the best country on earth for black folks. It was here that 600,000 black people, brought from Africa in slave ships, grew into a community of 40 million, were introduced to Christian salvation, and reached the greatest levels of freedom and prosperity blacks have ever known.

Where to begin?

First, it *assumes that blacks are richer* in America *because White Americans have been kinder* to them than Africans would be. Wrong: blacks are richer in America because America is richer.

The pie is so big in America that even when it is divided unjustly, as it is, it still leaves most people with more pie than any ordinary person would get in the Third World. Which is why people from the Third World come to America: *poverty is worse than racism. But that does not excuse racism*.

The argument also *overlooks how Africa got to be so poor and screwed up*. It turns a blind eye to the effect of the Atlantic slave trade on Africa and the effect of white rule, both direct (colonial empires) and indirect (banana republics).

And* like the Arab trader argument* it makes whites look good by comparing them to someone else.

But *the worst thing* about this argument is that* it is such a huge lie.*

*Whites pretty much let blacks twist in the wind*, like we saw on television right after Katrina. Blacks are like unwanted stepchildren in America. Whatever blacks have achieved has been in spite of whites for the most part. Most whites were quite fine with Jim Crow, if you remember. And even now most seem to be quite fine with failing black schools, black ghettos and high rates of black unemployment and crime (so long as it is not in their neighbourhood). Thus the kindness of white people.

And just so you know how morally broken this argument is, it *goes back to slave days*. Here is *Robert E. Lee* in *1856*:

The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially & physically. The painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction as a race, & I hope will prepare & lead them to better things. How long their subjugation may be necessary is known & ordered by a wise Merciful Providence.

*Spoken like a true white person:* it is not so bad and, besides, it is not our fault.


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## Taz (May 30, 2018)

IM2 said:


> *The “Go back to Africa” argument* says that if black people do not like it in America, they should go back to Africa. Mostly it is not an argument about Africa but *about the kindness of white people*. It  makes the point that White Americans have been nicer to black people than anyone else in the world, even nicer than black Africans would be.
> 
> *Pat Buchanan* loves this argument and makes it more directly. Here he is in *2008*:
> 
> ...


Blacks ARE better off in the US than they are in Africa. It's a fact.


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## squeeze berry (May 30, 2018)

IM2 said:


> *The “Go back to Africa” argument* says that if black people do not like it in America, they should go back to Africa. Mostly it is not an argument about Africa but *about the kindness of white people*. It  makes the point that White Americans have been nicer to black people than anyone else in the world, even nicer than black Africans would be.
> 
> *Pat Buchanan* loves this argument and makes it more directly. Here he is in *2008*:
> 
> ...


 

repatriation is an answer

 African-americans can easily remove themselves from the oppression they claim comes from white people. Their US dollar will go much farther there. If African americans are as valuable to our economy and culture as many claim, then think about how much they can contribute to an all black country politically, socially and culturally. 

Africa needs you.


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## squeeze berry (May 30, 2018)

Taz said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > *The “Go back to Africa” argument* says that if black people do not like it in America, they should go back to Africa. Mostly it is not an argument about Africa but *about the kindness of white people*. It  makes the point that White Americans have been nicer to black people than anyone else in the world, even nicer than black Africans would be.
> ...


  they don't act that way.


protectionist said:


> MizMolly said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, whites who had slaves and brought slaves to this country were responsible. WERE, as in past tense.
> ...



  4% of all african slaves brought to the new world were imported to North America

Those 4% are doing all the whining


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## squeeze berry (May 30, 2018)

protectionist said:


> All in all, this is a dumb thread. We're all arguing with a nutjob, who keeps saying what we all know isn't true, and is downright ridiculous, as well as offensive.


 

I have a hard time being offended on the internet. The internet is well, the internet.

Your nut job just regurgitates the same old blame whitey rhetoric that has been used to shame whitey for decades. 

Black "intellectuals" such as Michael Eric Dyson use the same talking points ad nausea non-stop without acknowledging his black privilege.


----------



## dannyboys (May 30, 2018)

"I haven't seen the Democrats so angry since we freed the slaves".


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## katsteve2012 (May 30, 2018)

squeeze berry said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > *The “Go back to Africa” argument* says that if black people do not like it in America, they should go back to Africa. Mostly it is not an argument about Africa but *about the kindness of white people*. It  makes the point that White Americans have been nicer to black people than anyone else in the world, even nicer than black Africans would be.
> ...



That being said, some of the alt right, extreme wackos who are here, and are outraged about immigration, affirmative action, and what they claim is restriction of their "free speech" rights, can also leave and return to Europe. 

They need you as well.


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## dannyboys (May 30, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


It pronounced 'illegal immigration' asshole!
Ya everyone in the inner city shit holes REALLY benefited from having the 'First Affirmative Action President'.
My First Amendment rights are guaranteed by the Second Amendment!
Come get some!


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## squeeze berry (May 30, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


 

opposing those policies is not extreme and the way the opposition is conducted is not extreme


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## protectionist (May 30, 2018)

basquebromance said:


> like the schoolyard bully, our criminal justice system harasses people on small pretext but is exposed as a coward before murder.
> 
> it hauls masses of black men through its machinery but fails to protect them from dying. it is at once oppressive and inadequate.


Got any evidence for this mish-mash ?


----------



## protectionist (May 30, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Actually we did have to be allowed all those things.


Yeah ?  Why ?  How ?


----------



## protectionist (May 30, 2018)

IM2 said:


> *The “Go back to Africa” argument* says that if black people do not like it in America, they should go back to Africa. Mostly it is not an argument about Africa but *about the kindness of white people*. It  makes the point that White Americans have been nicer to black people than anyone else in the world, even nicer than black Africans would be.
> 
> *Pat Buchanan* loves this argument and makes it more directly. Here he is in *2008*:
> 
> ...


ALL in this one post, you criticize Robert E. Lee and Pat Buchanan for saying the about the same thing YOU said >>_ "blacks are richer in America because America is richer.  The pie is so big in America that even when it is divided unjustly, as it is, it still leaves most people with more pie than any ordinary person would get in the Third World. "
_
And I said the same thing too, further back in the thread.

As for the Arab slave trader.  Arab Muslims didn't just trade slaves.  They owned them too.  To them, black Africans had only one reason for existing - to be slaves.  In fact, black slavery, is so deeply embedded in the Islamic world, that the Arabic word for "black" (abed or abeed), also means "slave"


----------



## protectionist (May 30, 2018)

squeeze berry said:


> they don't act that way.
> 
> 4% of all african slaves brought to the new world were imported to North America
> 
> Those 4% are doing all the whining


That's because they are TRAINED to whine - by Obama, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, et al race hustlers.  Often to gin up VOTES for Democrats.


----------



## protectionist (May 30, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> That being said, some of the alt right, extreme wackos who are here, and are outraged about immigration, affirmative action, and what they claim is restriction of their "free speech" rights, can also leave and return to Europe.
> 
> They need you as well.


And globalist whites living in America (but whose loyalty is to the world) can leave and go join the world outside the US.  Some of them may need to, when the US govt comes after them (Hillary Clinton comes to mind)


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## protectionist (May 30, 2018)

squeeze berry said:


> opposing those policies is not extreme and the way the opposition is conducted is not extreme


The most common display of black privilege and black racism is black support of Affirmative Action.  For them, racial discrimination is A OK as long as blacks are the beneficiaries, and whites are the victims.  Hypocrites.


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## katsteve2012 (May 30, 2018)

dannyboys said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > squeeze berry said:
> ...




I know how it is "pronounced", you moron. 

Your "first and second amendment " rights are no different than any other legal citizens.

"Come and get" what?


----------



## katsteve2012 (May 30, 2018)

protectionist said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > That being said, some of the alt right, extreme wackos who are here, and are outraged about immigration, affirmative action, and what they claim is restriction of their "free speech" rights, can also leave and return to Europe.
> ...



If they do, that's not my problem.


----------



## IM2 (May 30, 2018)

protectionist said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > *The “Go back to Africa” argument* says that if black people do not like it in America, they should go back to Africa. Mostly it is not an argument about Africa but *about the kindness of white people*. It  makes the point that White Americans have been nicer to black people than anyone else in the world, even nicer than black Africans would be.
> ...



I've said nothing close.


----------



## IM2 (May 30, 2018)

protectionist said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > That being said, some of the alt right, extreme wackos who are here, and are outraged about immigration, affirmative action, and what they claim is restriction of their "free speech" rights, can also leave and return to Europe.
> ...



America is part of the world dumb ass.


----------



## IM2 (May 30, 2018)

protectionist said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > opposing those policies is not extreme and the way the opposition is conducted is not extreme
> ...



AA does not discriminate against whites.


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## squeeze berry (May 31, 2018)

IM2 said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> > squeeze berry said:
> ...




it doesn't ? how so?


----------



## squeeze berry (May 31, 2018)

IM2 said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
> ...


  why is it that only certain countries are not supposed to define their own borders?

BTW,  

 in addition to the US taxpayer , mass immigration hurts "you people" more than any other demographic. You people are competing against them and losing.


----------



## squeeze berry (May 31, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
> ...



it might not be your problem, but it should and does concern you


----------



## Taz (May 31, 2018)

If the Civil War wasn't partly about slavery then why were there blacks fighting with the North? To preserve slavery?


----------



## squeeze berry (May 31, 2018)

Taz said:


> If the Civil War wasn't partly about slavery then why were there blacks fighting with the North? To preserve slavery?




 it doesn't matter.

Everything must be about them


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## katsteve2012 (May 31, 2018)

squeeze berry said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > protectionist said:
> ...



It should not, and does not.


----------



## squeeze berry (May 31, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
> ...


 I don't know about your school district, but ours has difficulty with school budgets caused by mass immigration.

Taxes go up, up, up and traffic get worse, worse worse


----------



## protectionist (May 31, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> It should not, and does not.


A clear example of blacks caring only about blacks, and no one else.


----------



## protectionist (May 31, 2018)

squeeze berry said:


> I don't know about your school district, but ours has difficulty with school budgets caused by mass immigration.
> 
> Taxes go up, up, up and traffic get worse, worse worse


Those are 2 items on my list of 17 Harms of Immigration.


----------



## katsteve2012 (May 31, 2018)

protectionist said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > It should not, and does not.
> ...



Your statement is a clear example of race baiting.


----------



## katsteve2012 (May 31, 2018)

squeeze berry said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > squeeze berry said:
> ...



My son and daughter are adults, with children of  their own who attend a private school.


----------



## squeeze berry (May 31, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
> ...


 I assume you and they are still taxpayers


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## katsteve2012 (May 31, 2018)

squeeze berry said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > squeeze berry said:
> ...



Of course we are. We have not seen a increase taxes due to immigration. We have seen an increase in the gasoline tax due to state initiatives.


----------



## IM2 (May 31, 2018)

squeeze berry said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > protectionist said:
> ...



Whites are the prime benefactor of the policy. Also whites get the majority of  construction contracts, government contracts, jobs, promotions and college admittances. As you aren't the entire population you don not deserve all the jobs and everything ese. That's what was happening before Affirmatives Action.


----------



## Taz (May 31, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
> ...


In other words, it's a good thing that your ancestors were brought over here as slaves.


----------



## katsteve2012 (May 31, 2018)

Taz said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > squeeze berry said:
> ...



Those are your words, not mine.


----------



## squeeze berry (May 31, 2018)

IM2 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...




  that is because whites are a majority in this country and no,  whites don't and never did  get all the jobs and everything else.


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## squeeze berry (May 31, 2018)

y


katsteve2012 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
> ...




you are lucky then


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## Taz (May 31, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Taz said:
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But do you agree that they're better off here than they would be in Africa?


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## MizMolly (May 31, 2018)

squeeze berry said:


> IM2 said:
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> > squeeze berry said:
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In the construction business, the lowest bidder get the job, if they are reputable and have all their insurances, etc


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## MizMolly (May 31, 2018)

IM2 said:


> squeeze berry said:
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Construction jobs mostly go to lowest bidder


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 1, 2018)

Taz said:


> katsteve2012 said:
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No. I've been to Africa 3 times. Kinshasa, Zaire, Acrra, the capital of Ghana, and Lagos in Nigeria. 

I saw nothing there that made me believe that I'm better off here than there, except for one thing:

I was born here, as were all of my family dating back numerous generations. 
Likely, much like yours.

Apparantley, you fancy yourself to be an expert on life in Africa. 

To the point that you believe that you are qualified to speculate on what a total strangers life would be like there as opposed to here.

How many times have you traveled there?


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## Taz (Jun 1, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Taz said:
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Things are so great in Africa that Africans are risking their lives to cross the Mediterranean sea to get out. Stop being so full of shit.


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## squeeze berry (Jun 1, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Taz said:
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and also whitey can't hold you down in africa 

provided that you believe that is happening ???


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## Geaux4it (Jun 1, 2018)

IM2 said:


> We keep getting told how whites died fighting to end slavery therefore we as blacks, who apparently did nothing need to be grateful for the great sacrifices made by whites. First off this is a silly claim. We are to be grateful that whites decided to fix a problem they created and did not have to be. However, reality is that such a claim is untrue.
> 
> *New York City draft riots*
> 
> ...



If the Africans had not sold their own people off, then this would all be moot. It takes two to tango

-Geaux


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## there4eyeM (Jun 1, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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Someone of your obvious intelligence is only flattering the poster you quote by answering him/her. It's nice to see your comments, don't get me wrong. Compared to the other poster's?
Well, as I said, _your_ intelligence is obvious.


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 1, 2018)

squeeze berry said:


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I've never stated that I'm held down by anyone.

Im retired and live comfortably, and have everything that I neec.

My only concern is for my grandchildren, so needless to say, whatever I can do to prepare them for what is out there, I am doing.


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 1, 2018)

there4eyeM said:


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 That is kind of you to say.

 At times  I consider forums like this to be an innocuous glimpse into the thought process of the lunatic fringe, and at times it is purely entertainment.

Either way, I do not take what is said here personally.


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 1, 2018)

Taz said:


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Impoverished people of all races, from different continents immigrate to America. Legally and illegally, everyday.

Even an uneducated individual like you should know that.

As I asked before:

Have YOU ever been to Africa?


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## Taz (Jun 1, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Impoverished people of all races, from different continents immigrate to America. Legally and illegally, everyday.


So why doesn't anyone emigrate to Africa? Because black people fucked it up so badly that nobody wants to go live there?


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## xyz (Jun 1, 2018)

IM2 said:


> We keep getting told how whites died fighting to end slavery therefore we as blacks, who apparently did nothing need to be grateful for the great sacrifices made by whites. First off this is a silly claim. We are to be grateful that whites decided to fix a problem they created and did not have to be. However, reality is that such a claim is untrue.
> 
> *New York City draft riots*
> 
> ...


Interesting, I watched the whole thing.

Also interesting that the KKK, which formed after the Civil War, was anti-Catholic.

I can see the reasons behind why this happened. There are many different groups like white immigrants from Europe (non-English), Hispanics, Asians, American Indians, blacks and so on. There is a system of ostracism/hatred/bigotry  that turns these groups onto each other, and even members of the same group will try to outdo each other and try to be "whiter than white". I'm sure it's still going on, it was definitely going on when I went to  elementary school, to a certain extent even in high school as well. Fueled by what the parents told the kids, no doubt. Or what their school buddies told them.


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 1, 2018)

Taz said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Impoverished people of all races, from different continents immigrate to America. Legally and illegally, everyday.
> ...



You are obviously ignorant of the history of what has happened in Africa.

And just a question. Why are you prone to making such stupid statements?


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## IM2 (Jun 1, 2018)

Taz said:


> katsteve2012 said:
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> 
> > Impoverished people of all races, from different continents immigrate to America. Legally and illegally, everyday.
> ...



Explain to us off  the top of your head without a search what the Berlin Conference was.


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## Taz (Jun 2, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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Why do you ignore reality?


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## Taz (Jun 2, 2018)

IM2 said:


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The fact is blacks fucked up Africa so badly that even blacks are escaping to Europe in any boat they can get their hands on.


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 2, 2018)

Taz said:


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Pointing out your ignorance and asking a direct question(that you are having difficulty answering) as to whether you have been to Africa, is not denial of reality.


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## Taz (Jun 2, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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You're ignoring the fact that blacks have fucked up Africa themselves. Every continent has gone through what Africa has gone through and they aren't as fucked up as Africa.


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 2, 2018)

Taz said:


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Have you been to Africa? Yes or no?


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## Taz (Jun 2, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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Yes.


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 2, 2018)

Taz said:


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Taz said:


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What part?


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## Taz (Jun 2, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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You've used up all your irrelevant questions, now move on.


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 2, 2018)

Taz said:


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Completely relevant. Looks like you are a little uncomfortable by being exposed.

 If you have actually visited there, you would probably say what part.


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## IM2 (Jun 2, 2018)

Taz said:


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So you can't tell us what the Berlin Conference was.


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## IM2 (Jun 2, 2018)

Taz said:


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You've never seen Africa in real life. You've never had a discussion about Africa with an African. All you are is a little punk racist white dude running his mouth about blacks on the internet.


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## Taz (Jun 3, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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Why? What's your point anyways. Got one?


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## Taz (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


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At least you didn't disagree with what I said. Good for you.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

Taz said:


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Except I did disagree. Whites fucked up the entire continent of Africa as a result of the colonization that occurred as part of the Berlin Conference. That's why your punk ass didn't want to answer that question.


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 3, 2018)

Taz said:


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I'm not responsible for instructing you how to comprehend plain English. 

I overestimated you for a few seconds and thought that you could speak first-hand about what you "saw" in Africa.  

LMAO.


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## Taz (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


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Look, every continent has had colonizers or invaders... EVERY one of them EXCEPT Africa has turned out fine.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

Taz said:


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His point is clear. Crystal clear. You've never been to Africa.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

Taz said:


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Wrong. Most of the world where whites have colonized there is continuing strife between the indigenus people and the whtes. Every where. Whtes have been schleprocks everywhere they go.


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## Taz (Jun 3, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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So what do you want to know about Africa?


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## Taz (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


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I have. YOU haven't.


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## Taz (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


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Please explain.


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 3, 2018)

Taz said:


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Answer IM2"s question. What was the Berlin Conference? 

Other than that, I seriously doubt that there is anything of value that you can convey to me about anything.


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## Taz (Jun 3, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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Google

There, now any of you who still don't know what the Berlin Conference is, go for it, and stop asking me to splain it to you.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

Taz said:


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Nah. You haven't. You know nothing about Africa  but what you read at stormfront.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

Taz said:


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We know what it is. You were supposed to explain it without using google.


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 3, 2018)

Taz said:


> katsteve2012 said:
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ROFLMAO. My 12 year old grandson can use Google. 

Most adults who are actually educated on s given subject matter  are able to speak to it in their own words.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

Taz said:


> IM2 said:
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If you knew what the Berlin Conference was and the results, you'd know.

It's been explained to you multiple times.


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## Taz (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


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Got anything relevant to discuss or have you simply taken too many grumpy pills this morning?


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

Taz said:


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Do you?


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## Taz (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


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I didn't use google because I already know what it is. It's for you so you can stop asking me.


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## Taz (Jun 3, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Taz said:
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Did you have a point you were going to make after I splained to you what it was? Either make it or move on.


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## Taz (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Taz said:
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Let's see if you can splain it to me.


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## Taz (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


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I was talking with jimi and YOU jumped in. Not me.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

Taz said:


> IM2 said:
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Apparently you didn't because you were asked to explain what it was and couldn't. You didn't put anything up for me. And you still can't explain it.


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Taz said:
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That would never happen. Because he has never been to Africa and could not answer your question. 

I decided to just accept the offer to be entertained by that person.. 

It's time to start using the ignore feature here .


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

Taz said:


> IM2 said:
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No, you will explain what the conference was and what it dd. I already know.


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## Taz (Jun 3, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> IM2 said:
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Ya, I agree, time to ignore IM2.


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## Taz (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Taz said:
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What's the matter? Don't know what it is? It's ok, you can google it and report back.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

Taz said:


> IM2 said:
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Just explain what the conference was and stop stalling or just admit that you are a fucked up retard dumb ass white man who doesn't know shit about Africa..


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

Taz said:


> IM2 said:
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Not going to work junior.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

Taz said:


> katsteve2012 said:
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Feel free.


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## Taz (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


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## Taz (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


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Your concession is duly noted.


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 3, 2018)

Taz said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
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Then why don't you start right this second? I'm certain that he would thank you for improving the quality of the time that he spends here.


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## Taz (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


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You've put your brain on ignore, that's more fun.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

Taz said:


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## Taz (Jun 3, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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Ya, because avoiding the truth would hurt him less.


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## Wyatt earp (Jun 3, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...




Yet white Christian's founded this country , no matter what Obama told you it wasnt Muslims..


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

Taz said:


> IM2 said:
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If my brain is on ignore yours is dead.

You've never seen Africa. You don't know what the Berlin Conference was. As far as you know it's probably the day Jesse Owens won the medals in front of Hitler.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

bear513 said:


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> > squeeze berry said:
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Oh boy, another dumb ass.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

Taz said:


> katsteve2012 said:
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I know the truth. How about yourself?


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 3, 2018)

Taz said:


> katsteve2012 said:
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"Truth"? Now THAT was hilarious. You have already proven yourself to be a liar. 

Because you've never been to Africa as you claimed. Nor could you recount what transpired in the Berlin Conference.....in your own words. 

That's the real truth. Now go bother someone else.


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## Wyatt earp (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


> bear513 said:
> 
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> > katsteve2012 said:
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Prove me wrong cry baby?


Once again go back to Africa..


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## Wyatt earp (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Taz said:
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> > katsteve2012 said:
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All you know is playing the victim.


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## irosie91 (Jun 3, 2018)

Africa was fuked up long before the Berlin conference.   The Berlin conference
was a discussion over a corpse


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 3, 2018)

bear513 said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > squeeze berry said:
> ...



I know quite well what "White Christians" have "done". All over the world. 

And Obama has nothing to do with this thread.


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## Taz (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Taz said:
> 
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> > IM2 said:
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Jesse who?


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## MizMolly (Jun 3, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
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IM2 consistently copies and pastes articles rather than post from his own perspective.,


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 3, 2018)

MizMolly said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
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Really? It appears that many here are quite bothered by his perspective, and take it personally.
JMO.


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## MizMolly (Jun 3, 2018)

Tr
Answer IM2"s question. What was the Berlin Conference?

Other than that, I seriously doubt that there is anything of value that you can convey to me about anything.[/QUOTE]
Google

There, now any of you who still don't know what the Berlin Conference is, go for it, and stop asking me to splain it to you. [/QUOTE]

ROFLMAO. My 12 year old grandson can use Google.

Most adults who are actually educated on s given subject matter  are able to speak to it in their own words.[/QUOTE]
IM2 consistently copies and pastes articles rather than post from his own perspective.,[/QUOTE]

Really? It appears that many here are quite bothered by his perspective, and take it personally.
JMO.[/QUOTE]
True but he still cuts and pastes quite alot


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

bear513 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...



According to the constitution this country was not Christian and since 500 nations already existed here whites didn't found anything. As for your last comment, SMD. Take  your pasty white ass back to Europe.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

bear513 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
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The only people playing the victim are whites such as yourself.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> Africa was fuked up long before the Berlin conference.   The Berlin conference
> was a discussion over a corpse



That's a lie. Europe was the corpse or at best on life support. The Berlin Conference is evidence of that. You don't invade and colonize a corpse.  But you are dumb so this is expected.


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## irosie91 (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Africa was fuked up long before the Berlin conference.   The Berlin conference
> ...



your evaluation is very shallow-----the corpse did have lots of undeveloped natural resources ----lots of untapped potential


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## KissMy (Jun 3, 2018)

You could be with these slaves in Africa today.


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## irosie91 (Jun 3, 2018)

KissMy said:


> You could be with these slaves in Africa today.




you are being vulgar--------SO COULD YOU


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

irosie91 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
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Those resources did not belong to the Europeans.

Colonization ruined Africa and created many of the problems we see now. Most of Africa is 50 years or less removed from colonization yet most of the problems created were not addressed upon independence. But this is how white people operate. You guys have a convenient amnesia that you expect everyone else to share in.


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## KissMy (Jun 4, 2018)

Why are millions of Blacks fleeing Black Africa to get into White Western European Countries?

Just look how Libya is enslaving, raping & killing millions of blacks crossing through in route to Europe. Blacks say they would rather be slaves or DIE than return to Black African countries.


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## IM2 (Jun 6, 2018)

KissMy said:


> Why are millions of Blacks fleeing Black Africa to get into White Western European Countries?
> 
> Just look how Libya is enslaving, raping & killing millions of blacks crossing through in route to Europe. Blacks say they would rather be slaves or DIE than return to Black African countries.



LOL! Whatever lie you have to tell yourself to male it through the day.


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## KissMy (Jun 6, 2018)

IM2 said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> > Why are millions of Blacks fleeing Black Africa to get into White Western European Countries?
> ...


You need to pull your racist head out of your ass, Wake-Up & see the Reality!


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