# Thread for Zionists who Deny the Existence of the Palestinian Christians and Muslims



## montelatici (May 23, 2017)

One of the key goals of Zionist propaganda is to make people believe that the Muslim and Christian people of Palestine did a not exist when the European Zionists began colonizing Palestine.

Initially, they tried to push the idea that Palestine was empty.  This is the old "a land without a people for a people without a land" lie.  This was such a successful propaganda campaign that most people in America actually believed that there were no people in Palestine when the Jews began colonizing Palestine.  Most Europeans were not that easily brainwashed, and the Europeans were well aware of the presence of non-Jews.  The Catholic and Greek Othrodox churches in Europe both had formal ties to the area and provided more clarity on the matter than the respective churches in the U.S., who were influenced by the powerful Jewish community here.

As more and more source documents became available this fantasy became untenable as all the British mandatory source documentation concluded that at the end of WW1 the Muslims and Christians outnumbered the Jews more than 11 to 1that.  What to do?   

The next Zionist gambit  was to claim that the Muslims and Christians migrated to Palestine from surrounding territories.  This propaganda ploy gained some traction but was ultimately debunked by virtually the same League of Nations Mandatory source documentation archived at the UN.  That documentation concluded that both legal and illegal non-Jewish migration to Palestine was inconsequential and that migration to Palestine was overwhelmingly that of European colonists. The same source documentation clearly stated that the growth of the non-Jewish population was as a result of natural growth while the Jewish population grew as a result of migration.  The Zionist claim that the non-Jews went to Palestine for work was comical when confronted with the fact that the British garrison in Egypt was far larger than the small garrison in Palestine and that the Suez Canal and other British infrastructure and operations employed several times the personnel that Palestine could employee.  The irony of the Zionist propaganda is that non-Jewish Palestinians immigrated to Egypt for work and educational purposes.  The non-Jews of Palestine were more likely to leave Palestine for work than go to Palestine.

With most of the Hasbara propaganda debunked the most recent ploy is to claim that while there may have been non-Jews around, they did not exist as Palestinians.  Some go so far as to repeat a made up story that the Russians created the Palestinians in the 1960s.  

When the Zionist propagandists are confronted with letters, from the same archives, from 1921 to the British Colonial Office from the Palestinians, calling themselves the People of Palestine they revert to the next ploy, there was no Palestine during the Ottoman Empire.  This notwithstanding official Ottoman military maps showing "Filastin" as a locale/territory.  Other than maps, there are other indicators.  For example, why would there be a manual for Palestinean (sic) Arabic during Ottoman rule (1909) if there were no Palestinians during Ottoman rule?







Full text of "Manual of Palestinean Arabic, for self-instruction"


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## louie888 (May 23, 2017)

Please make this a sticky. This will save the trolling of exactly what* montelatici*, just explained. They do it on every thread, regardless of the topic. This has been explained several times, but they continue as this easily verifiable information does not exist.

What was just posted is not even in dispute, but they will. Y'all watch...


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## louie888 (May 23, 2017)

*
"The Catholic and Greek Othrodox churches in Europe both had formal ties to the area and provided more clarity on the matter than the respective churches in the U.S., who were influenced by the powerful Jewish community here."
*
Let's not forget that the powerful Jewish lobby has nothing to do with Judaism. They stole that like they did Palestine. We had over 200 of our Rabbis at the UN prior to them giving Palestine to "the Jews" which was actually Rothschild and his zionist federation as shown in the Balfour declaration.* Our Rabbis begged everyone that would listen to NOT do this! They knew what would happen. They knew that this could not possibly bode well for peace. *We have a whole thread on this and in the 27 pages of that thread, you wont find anyone who thought this land theft would bode well for peace.*

Did anyone really believe that the UN giving Palestine to extremist Jews would bode well for peace?

"...at the end of WW1 the Muslims and Christians outnumbered the Jews more than 11 to 1that. What to do?"
*
And this cannot be disputed, but with lies.*

"With most of the Hasbara propaganda debunked the most recent ploy is to claim that while there may have been non-Jews around, they did not exist as Palestinians. Some go so far as to repeat a made up story that the Russians created the Palestinians in the 1960s."*

I like their one about how Palestine is Arafat's conspiracy theory.


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## Hollie (May 23, 2017)

So, the us about the former invading / colonizing Islamists and Christians occupying your invented "country of Pal'istan".


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## Shusha (May 23, 2017)

The irony, of course, is that the denial of the existence of the Jewish people is at LEAST as common on the anti-Israel side.

Both sides need to recognize each other.


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## Hollie (May 23, 2017)

It's not surprising that _The Monty_ has again cut and pasted his usual slogans and clichés wherein he rattles on with his Jooooo hating tirades.

It's also not surprising that _The Monty_ ignores the very basic reality that Jews were encouraged to immigrate to the area he falsely believes to be his invented "country of Pal'istan" thereby making his silly "Joooo invasion" slogans just more noise.

It's not surprising that _The Monty_ completely ignores history and is in denial about the true invaders / colonizers: Turks, Arabs-Moslems and European Roman invaders / Crusaders. 

It seems The Monty is merely a cut and paste propagandist who has established an arbitrary timeline for his slogans and clichés as he cuts and pastes his sweaty, feverish Joooo tirades.


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## rylah (May 23, 2017)

Shusha said:


> The irony, of course, is that the denial of the existence of the Jewish people is at LEAST as common on the anti-Israel side.
> 
> Both sides need to recognize each other.



Totally agree, this has been a never ending cycle.
But  the fact is, the conversation here is unbalanced from the beginning-
we have Jews/Israelis, Europeans and Americans who argue about Jews, Arabs and the Jewish/Palestinian homeland.

I think many Jews/Israelis (including me) would be really happy to find out that a significant part of the Palestinians are actually our closest brothers, in a way that they'd feel the real connection to their 'enemies'.

However, I don't see any change in the denial of Jewish rights or even ties to the land on the European side...seem the Europeans are more focused on the victimization of Palestinians and de-legitimization of the Jewish homeland.

*This only supports the continuation of the centuries long bloodshed.*


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## montelatici (May 23, 2017)

The Europeans are focused on a peaceful solution.  The solution can't be equitable as the Jews after the British supported colonization, are now a reality on the ground and the Palestinians have to accept that Jews now represent a substantial presence and they are going nowhere, however, the dynamic that Jews must rule over non-Jews is not a solution.


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## rylah (May 23, 2017)

montelatici said:


> The Europeans are focused on a peaceful solution.  The solution can't be equitable as the Jews after the British supported colonization, are now a reality on the ground and the Palestinians have to accept that Jews now represent a substantial presence and they are going nowhere, however, the dynamic that Jews must rule over non-Jews is not a solution.



Maybe, maybe some Europeans are focused on peace, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt (putting aside their treatment of Jews).
But their judgment of the situation in ME is totally fogged by their  projection of their own European values on ME people.

Why can't Arab Palestinians live in a Jewish homeland?
It actually brings them closer to their origins, language and culture.
If anything it's the Arabic culture and Islam that are the markers of their long occupation...not Hebrew, Arameic languages or the original Israelite names of ancient cities.


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## rylah (May 23, 2017)

Even the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem has more common traits to other Canaanite temples.
Why do they have to stick to this huge 'nipple' in the middle of Jerusalem, which is clearly foreign to their culture?


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## montelatici (May 23, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
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> > The Europeans are focused on a peaceful solution.  The solution can't be equitable as the Jews after the British supported colonization, are now a reality on the ground and the Palestinians have to accept that Jews now represent a substantial presence and they are going nowhere, however, the dynamic that Jews must rule over non-Jews is not a solution.
> ...



Because they are Christians and Muslims that rejected Judaism long ago.


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## rylah (May 23, 2017)

So they prefer foreign culture to their roots?

*I understand Christianity originated in the land, but it first came from the Jews. Today's Christianity is not very middle-eastern or simillar to what it was originally but more Roman-European.

Islam is too - the culture of occupiers.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (May 23, 2017)

The Zioturds like to say that Palestinians in 1929 attacked Jews in a Pogrom, but then say such a people never existed before the creation of Israel in 1948.


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## rylah (May 23, 2017)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> The Zioturds like to say that Palestinians in 1929 attacked Jews in a Pogrom, but then say such a people never existed before the creation of Israel in 1948.


 Keep up...no one has said it even once in this thread.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (May 23, 2017)

rylah said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
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> > The Zioturds like to say that Palestinians in 1929 attacked Jews in a Pogrom, but then say such a people never existed before the creation of Israel in 1948.
> ...



Maybe not in this thread, but what about other threads?

Roudy the Jewish imbecile has said such things like Palestinians had not existed, but some how targeted Jews in a Pogrom.... When I pressured him his response was that the Palestinians who attacked Jews in Hebron in 1929 were "Immigrants"

Keep in mind Roudy has said other ridiculously stupid things like Poles manned the Concentration Camps.


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## montelatici (May 23, 2017)

rylah said:


> So they prefer foreign culture to their roots?
> 
> *I understand Christianity originated in the land, but it first came from the Jews. Today's Christianity is not very middle-eastern or simillar to what it was originally but more Roman-European.
> 
> Islam is too - the culture of occupiers.



European Jews are foreign to the Muslims and Christians of Palestine. Palestinian Christians are the first Christians, and they are Middle Eastern.


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## rylah (May 23, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
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No, Jews are the closest to Palestinians than any other ME peoples.
And Jews are the first Christians.

Arab culture is more foreign to Palestine than Jewish culture, which has been meticulously preserved, unlike the original Philistinian culture which is long gone.

Arab Palestinians fight for the occupation culture (Arabian and Roman), while denying Jews who actually are the only keepers of the original Palestinian/Canaanite culture and language.

Arabic is foreign, Hebrew-Arameic is local.


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## louie888 (May 24, 2017)

Hollie said:


> It's not surprising that _The Monty_ has again cut and pasted his usual slogans and clichés wherein he rattles on with his Jooooo hating tirades.
> 
> It's also not surprising that _The Monty_ ignores the very basic reality that Jews were encouraged to immigrate to the area he falsely believes to be his invented "country of Pal'istan" thereby making his silly "Joooo invasion" slogans just more noise.
> 
> ...


It's not surprising that _hollie_ has again cut and pasted her usual slogans and clichés wherein she rattles on with his Moooooslim hating tirades.

It's also not surprising that _hollie_ ignores the very basic reality that Jews were encouraged to immigrate to the area she falsely believes to be an invented country thereby making her silly "mooooslim invasion" slogans just more noise.

It's not surprising that _hollie_ completely ignores history and is in denial about the true invaders / colonizers: European "Jews."

It seems hollie is merely a cut and paste propagandist who has established an arbitrary timeline for her slogans and clichés as she cuts and pastes her sweaty, feverish Moooooslim tirades.


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## Hollie (May 24, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Hollie said:
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> > It's not surprising that _The Monty_ has again cut and pasted his usual slogans and clichés wherein he rattles on with his Jooooo hating tirades.
> ...


There's my little stalker / plagiarist. I knew you would be trolling for posts of mine you could plagiarize.


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## Roudy (May 24, 2017)

Zzzzz...what a buffoon, nobody is denying the "existence" of Muslims or Christians, they were the same people who invaded the holy land of the Jews.  And despite that, the Jews kept a presence and kept coming back to their religious, ancestral, and cultural holy land over the mellenia.  

Actually it's you terrorist ass kissers that deny the presence and migration of Jews to Israel over the last two thousand years.


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## P F Tinmore (May 24, 2017)

rylah said:


> Shusha said:
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> > The irony, of course, is that the denial of the existence of the Jewish people is at LEAST as common on the anti-Israel side.
> ...





rylah said:


> However, I don't see any change in the denial of Jewish rights


That's weird, Nobody I know in BDS denies the right of Jews to live on that land.


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## P F Tinmore (May 24, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
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> > The Europeans are focused on a peaceful solution.  The solution can't be equitable as the Jews after the British supported colonization, are now a reality on the ground and the Palestinians have to accept that Jews now represent a substantial presence and they are going nowhere, however, the dynamic that Jews must rule over non-Jews is not a solution.
> ...





rylah said:


> Why can't Arab Palestinians live in a Jewish homeland?


Good question.


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## Shusha (May 24, 2017)

According to monte, because Arabs must not live under "Jew-rule".  Because -- bad.


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## montelatici (May 24, 2017)

Roudy said:


> Zzzzz...what a buffoon, nobody is denying the "existence" of Muslims or Christians, they were the same people who invaded the holy land of the Jews.  And despite that, the Jews kept a presence and kept coming back to their religious, ancestral, and cultural holy land over the mellenia.
> 
> Actually it's you terrorist ass kissers that deny the presence and migration of Jews to Israel over the last two thousand years.



The Muslims and Christians are descendants of Jews and Samaritans that converted to Christianity after the establishment of Christianity as the state religion of Rome. Most of those Christians subsequently converted to Islam after the Muslims conquest.


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## montelatici (May 24, 2017)

Shusha said:


> According to monte, because Arabs must not live under "Jew-rule".  Because -- bad.



Non-Jews should not be forced to live under minority Jew rule.  A secular democratic state is what is desirable, not a Jewish, Muslim or Christian state.


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## Shusha (May 24, 2017)

montelatici said:


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> ...



Why not two secular democratic States -- one Jewish and one Arab Palestinian?  Then neither has to live under the rule of the other.  Which is, apparently, according to you -- bad.


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## montelatici (May 24, 2017)

Shusha said:


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Because, as Ruddy has eloquently established, the Jews will not allow a sovereign non-Jewish state to be established.


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## Hollie (May 24, 2017)

montelatici said:


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You're really quite the propagandist. Arab-Islamics have virtually no history of secular, democratic rule. Drop one person / one vote into islamist fear societies - allow free access to the process for political parties, and we see with regularity that the pious Islamic terrorists sweep up the votes. Does Hamas in the West Bank ring any bells? How about the muslim brotherhood in Egypt?

Why do Islamics put in place these social misfits / despots? Because for 1,400 years, with only brief periods of anything different, they've been ruled by Islamic warlords, have no aversion to violent changes of government by armed groups of Islamic terrorists, and believe that theocratic Islamic totalitarianism is the way of the world. Not only will Islamics gladly submit to a theocratic state, but they'll positively rush out and make it happen.


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## Indeependent (May 24, 2017)

Hollie said:


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Shh....Monty doesn't want Muslims in Europe because they're violent but wants Israel to be overrun by them.


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## rylah (May 24, 2017)

Indeependent said:


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There was one member on USMB who expressed the will  to cleanse Palestine of all none Christians...guess who.


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## Indeependent (May 24, 2017)

rylah said:


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Monty is upset we rejected Geezus.


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## montelatici (May 24, 2017)

Indeependent said:


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I am not upset at all. The Christian Zionists who don't understand you people despise Jesus Christ may turn on you, though.


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## Indeependent (May 24, 2017)

montelatici said:


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I doubt that since the source for them supporting us is The Rapture, which is in the version of TNT that you reject.


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## montelatici (May 24, 2017)

Indeependent said:


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The Christian heretics that support you now will turn on you people. While we Catholics outnumber them considerably, they outnumber you considerably.  You will lose.


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## Indeependent (May 24, 2017)

montelatici said:


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That whole .000001% of Catholics who still care about their religion will pounce all over those Protestants who actually believe in God.
Sorry, Monty, your logic fails you left and right.


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## rylah (May 24, 2017)

montelatici said:


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How do You imagine our loss, what will be the situation?


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## rylah (May 24, 2017)

Indeependent said:


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Pay attention ^^

כִּי-הִנֵּה אוֹיְבֶיךָ יֶהֱמָיוּן וּמְשַׂנְאֶיךָ נָשְׂאוּ רֹאשׁ:


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## Shusha (May 24, 2017)

montelatici said:


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Wait.  No.  Nanananana.  Not going to let you back pedal away from that.  You said, "Non-Jews should not be forced to live under Jew rule".  There is no back pedaling to "Its perfectly fine for non-Jews to live under 'Jew rule' as long as Israel permits such a thing."

Own it.  You said, and have said repeatedly, that non-Jews should not be forced to live under Jew-rule.  So, why should Jews be forced to live under Arab rule?  

Goose. Gander.  Pot.  Kettle.  If you apply it to one, it is hypocrisy not to apply it to other.


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## Roudy (May 25, 2017)

montelatici said:


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Hah?  The Jewish land was invaded by Christians and Muslims.  It was the Jews who rejected the invader's faith, moron.


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## Roudy (May 25, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
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> > Zzzzz...what a buffoon, nobody is denying the "existence" of Muslims or Christians, they were the same people who invaded the holy land of the Jews.  And despite that, the Jews kept a presence and kept coming back to their religious, ancestral, and cultural holy land over the mellenia.
> ...


Which comical history book are you reading?  The land was invaded by Muslims and Christians.


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## Roudy (May 25, 2017)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> The Zioturds like to say that Palestinians in 1929 attacked Jews in a Pogrom, but then say such a people never existed before the creation of Israel in 1948.


Arab Muslims who later called themselves palestinians.  They are called Palestinians because today's Palestinians are descendants of those same genocidal animals.


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## Roudy (May 25, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
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> > So they prefer foreign culture to their roots?
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Another epic Monte fail! Plenty of Middle eastern Christians claim to be the first Christians, the Copts in Egypt, the Armenians, the Orthodox, the Chaldeans, the Catholics...etc. why don't you guys get together in a closed arena with some swords and duke it out.  Just like the old days, eh?


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## Roudy (May 25, 2017)

Shusha said:


> According to monte, because Arabs must not live under "Jew-rule".  Because -- bad.


He wants it Jews to be subservient and persecuted, just like the Muslim shitholes that he proudly claims to have lived in.


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## rylah (May 25, 2017)

Roudy said:


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Wasn't the first Christian born to a Jewish mother, while Christianity tries to prove his connection to the lineage of king David?

Anyway the first Christians were slaughtered by the Romans for 300 years, just to claim later they've become the AUTHORITY on Christianity.
Pagan fused Roman Christianity is the culture of occupiers, as much as Saudi Arabian Islam.


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## montelatici (May 25, 2017)

Roudy said:


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All Christians agree that the Palestinians are the first Christians. That's where Jesus Christ preached you idiot.  The Copts are not even in the Middle East.   Another IQ indicator for Ruddy.  What a massive fail.


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## montelatici (May 25, 2017)

rylah said:


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The first Christians were previously Jews and Samaritans, how could it be the religion of the occupiers.  It was the religion of the locals that the Romans adopted.


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## Roudy (May 25, 2017)

montelatici said:


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When will you stop your bullshit?! It's been one invasion or siege after another, by either Muslims or Christians.

610: Jewish revolt against Heraclius begins in Antioch and spreads to other cities including Jerusalem.

614: Siege of Jerusalem (614) – Jerusalem falls to Khosrau II's Sassanid Empire led by General Shahrbaraz, during the Byzantine–Sassanid War of 602–628. Jewish leader Nehemiah ben Hushiel allied with Shahrbaraz in the battle, as part of the Jewish revolt against Heraclius, and was made governor of the city. The Church of the Holy Sepulchre is burned, Patriarch Zacharias is taken prisoner, the True Cross and other relics are taken to Ctesiphon, and much of the Christian population is massacred.[40][41] Most of the city is destroyed.
617: Jewish governor Nehemiah ben Hushiel is killed by a mob of Christian citizens, three years after he is appointed. The Sassanids quell the uprising and appoint a Christian governor to replace him.

624: Jerusalem loses its place as the focal point for Muslim prayers to Mecca, 18 months after the Hijra (Muhammad's migration to Medina).

629: Byzantine Emperor Heraclius retakes Jerusalem, after the decisive defeat of the Sassanid Empire at the Battle of Nineveh (627). Heraclius personally returns the True Cross to the city.[43]
904: The Abbasids regain control of Jerusalem after invading Syria, and the army of Tulunid Emir Harun retreats to Egypt where the Tulunids were defeated the following year.
1009: Fatimid Caliph Al-Hakim orders destruction of churches and synagogues in the empire, including the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.
1099: Siege of Jerusalem (1099) – First Crusaderscapture Jerusalem. The Dome of the Rockis converted into a Christian church. Godfrey of Bouillonbecomes Protector of the Holy Sepulchre.[54]
1187: Siege of Jerusalem (1187) – Saladin captures Jerusalem from the Crusaders, after Battle of the Horns of Hattin. Allows Jewish and Orthodox Christian settlement. The Dome of the Rock is converted to an Islamic centre of worship again.
1248–50: The Seventh Crusade, launched in reaction to the 1244 destruction of Jerusalem, fails after Louis IX of France is defeated and captured by Ayyubid Sultan Turanshah at the Battle of Fariskur in 1250. The Mamluk Sultanate is indirectly created in Egypt as a result, as Turanshah is killed by his Mamluk soldiers a month after the battle and his stepmother Shajar al-Durr becomes Sultana of Egypt with the Mamluk Aybak as Atabeg. The Ayyubids relocate to Damascus.
Jerusalem raided as part of the Mongol raids into Palestine under Nestorian Christian general Kitbuqa. Hulagu Khansends a message to Louis IX of France that Jerusalem remitted to the Christians under the Franco-Mongol Alliance.
1516: The Ottoman Empire replaces the Mamluks after Sultan Selim Idefeats the last Mamluk Sultan Al-Ashraf Qansuh al-Ghawri at the Battle of Marj Dabiq(Aleppo) and the Battle of Yaunis Khan (Gaza).
1517: Sultan Selim I makes a pilgrimage to Jerusalem on his way to the final defeat of the Mamluks at the Battle of Ridaniya (Cairo). Selim proclaims himself Caliph of the Islamic world.
1917: The Ottomans are defeated at the Battle of Jerusalem during the First World War. The British Army's General Allenby enters Jerusalem on foot, in a reference to the entrance of Caliph Umar in 637. The Balfour Declaration had been issued just a month


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## montelatici (May 25, 2017)

Roudy said:


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What does that have to do with the fact that the first Christians were the followers of Jesus Christ who happened to live in the territory which is now called Palestine or Israel?  Are you going nuts quoting wiki for some reason.


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## Roudy (May 25, 2017)

montelatici said:


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Nooo....ya don't say..."the first Christians were the followers of Jesus Christ"?  OMG YOU FIGURED THAT ON YOUR OWN?! 

There was no Palestine during Jesus' life.  There was no Palestine during Jesus' life, he was a Judean.  Just one lie after another. 

Weren't you the moron who claimed "how could it be the religion of invaders" before I posted a long list of Christian and Muslim invasions and sieges on the Jewish holy land?  LOL 

Besides it isn't the Christians today that are laying claim to Jerusalem or Israel, it's the GREEDY Muslims.  Christians prefer the Jews to be in control of their holy sites than a bunch of unpredictable intolerant Islamic savages.  In a way the Jews are honest brokers, producing both safety and accessibility to followers of all faiths.  Look at what the Palestinians did to the Christians in Lebanon, killed over 150,000 of them.


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## montelatici (May 25, 2017)

Roudy said:


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Yes, I was stationed in Saudi Arabia for 18 months tour while in the U.S. Army.   And, I lived in Tunisia when my father was with the U.S. Military Attache'  at the embassy in Tunis, he was also U.S. Army. Have a problem with that?  

And, I don't believe that Christians or Muslims should subservient to and be persecuted by Israeli Jews.


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## rylah (May 25, 2017)

montelatici said:


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How many original Christians have been eaten by lions for entertainment?
No You tell me Roman Catholicism is anywhere the original  Judeo-Christianity?? 

You're kidding only Yourself


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## montelatici (May 25, 2017)

The number of Christians killed by the Romans was actually a lot of PR, in fact:

"In the 300 years between the death of Jesus and the conversion of the Emperor Constantine, there were maybe 10 or 12 scattered years during which Christians were singled out for supression by Rome’s imperial authorities, and even then the enforcement of such initiatives was haphazard — lackadaisical in many regions, although harsh in others. “Christians were never,” Moss writes, “the victims of sustained, targeted persecution.”

“The Myth of Persecution”: Early Christians weren’t persecuted

There is no such thing as Judeo-Christianity.  It's a contradiction in terms.  Without accepting Christ as God, you can't be a Christian.  The Roman Catholic church was built upon the rock called Peter (Petros/Pietra).

"And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it."


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## rylah (May 25, 2017)

First Christians were Judeans, former observers of laws of Moses, the Torah.
They spoke Herew-Arameic. 


It's simple why do You argue?


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## montelatici (May 25, 2017)

rylah said:


> First Christians were Judeans, former observers of laws of Moses, the Torah.
> They spoke Herew-Arameic.
> 
> 
> It's simple why do You argue?



Well, it is understandable that you have not read the Bible. Our Bible that is. Why do you argue fact?

Let me remind you:

8:13

"By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear."


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## Roudy (May 25, 2017)

montelatici said:


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> > Shusha said:
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In conclusion, you've lived in shitholes of intolerance, bigotry, oppression and chauvanism, where Christians and Jews were subservient to Muslims by law, and lived as "second class citizens" as it is today throughout the ME, and, since you're a mentally ill antisemite with ties to Paleshitians, you want it to be the same in Israel, the one secular democratic country in the Middle East with equal rights for all, and where all faiths and their holy sites are respected.


----------



## Roudy (May 25, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > First Christians were Judeans, former observers of laws of Moses, the Torah.
> ...



More antisemtic bullshit from the idiot.  How about the sermon of the mount where Jesus totally confirms the OT and that not a single word or prophet is to be changed or denied.  

Not surprising, not only does he mutilate historical documents he also muitalres the Christian faith and what it stands for.  What a freak!


----------



## rylah (May 26, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > First Christians were Judeans, former observers of laws of Moses, the Torah.
> ...



How is that relevant to the fact that the original Christians were the adherents of the Moses Law and spoke Hebrew-Aramaic - Jews?

The book of Hebrews works only for those who cannot read the original texts in its' original language. Any Hebrew speaker sees that either the author of Hebrews couldn't actually read Hebrew, or just changed the original verses to suit their agenda .

*Are You saying Catholics believe G-d is a lier who can't keep his promises?*


----------



## rylah (May 27, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



'the right of Jews to live on that land' include self determination (govern), right to worship freely at the Holy places, and the ability to protect ourselves. 

You deny it.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 27, 2017)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...


Jews were not the first people there nor were they ever the only people there.

There is no historic precedent for an exclusive Jewish state.


----------



## Shusha (May 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Jews were not the first people there nor were they ever the only people there.
> 
> There is no historic precedent for an exclusive Jewish state.



1. There are plenty of historic precedents for States built around an ethnic or cultural group.  It is exceedingly common as a precedent.  Most are built on some aspect of "exclusivity" or purpose in preserving a specific culture.

2.  There is most certainly a precedent for such a Jewish State, an indigenous Jewish state based on Israel's historical right to re-constitute sovereignty on her ancestral and historic territory.

3.  There is NO precedent for an exclusive "Palestinian" state, whether you want to determine that as an inclusive state for two widely opposing cultural groups or as an exclusive state for only the Arabs.  Therefore, if your argument rejects a Jewish State, it equally rejects a "Palestinian" State.  

4.  One need be neither the first people there nor the only people there in order to have an historical and cultural relationship with the territory.  And again, if your argument rejects a Jewish State, it equally rejects a "Palestinian" State.  

5.  Israel does not, and has never, demanded an exclusive Jewish State.  It has demanded (entirely morally and correctly) a state which seeks to preserve the unique culture of the indigenous Jewish people, while ensuring, in law, the rights of all peoples within her borders to freedom from discrimination for race, ethnicity, religion.  This is in direct contrast to current Arab Palestinian governments who demand a Jew-free Palestine as a pre-condition to any sort of peace deal, and who demand, ultimately, a territory which has NO Jewish self-determination or guarantee of freedom from discrimination.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 28, 2017)

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Jews were not the first people there nor were they ever the only people there.
> ...





Shusha said:


> Therefore, if your argument rejects a Jewish State, it equally rejects a "Palestinian" State.


The Palestinian state had Muslims, Christians, and Jews with no distinction.

Dividing people by religion was a British/Zionist thing.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 28, 2017)

Shusha said:


> 5. Israel does not, and has never, demanded an exclusive Jewish State. It has demanded (entirely morally and correctly) a state which seeks to preserve the unique culture of the indigenous Jewish people, while ensuring, in law, the rights of all peoples within her borders to freedom from discrimination for race, ethnicity, religion.


Load of Israeli crap. Non Jewish citizens of Israel are not allowed to claim their own land that they owned before Israel stole it.


----------



## Shusha (May 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinian state had Muslims, Christians, and Jews with no distinction.
> 
> Dividing people by religion was a British/Zionist thing.



There has never been a "Palestinian" State, so fail.  And there are a ton of historical precedents for territories being divided along the lines of religious faith and ethnicity.


----------



## Shusha (May 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > 5. Israel does not, and has never, demanded an exclusive Jewish State. It has demanded (entirely morally and correctly) a state which seeks to preserve the unique culture of the indigenous Jewish people, while ensuring, in law, the rights of all peoples within her borders to freedom from discrimination for race, ethnicity, religion.
> ...



Its not a conflict over land ownership.  Its a conflict over sovereignty.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 28, 2017)

Shusha said:


> There has never been a "Palestinian" State, so fail.


Another load of Israeli crap.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 28, 2017)

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


People not being allowed to claim their own land is discrimination. There is no equality here.


----------



## Shusha (May 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> People not being allowed to claim their own land is discrimination. There is no equality here.



Hence the need for a Jewish State.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 28, 2017)

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > People not being allowed to claim their own land is discrimination. There is no equality here.
> ...


----------



## Shusha (May 28, 2017)

You keep conflating land ownership with sovereignty.


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## P F Tinmore (May 28, 2017)

Shusha said:


> You keep conflating land ownership with sovereignty.





			
				Shusha said:
			
		

> a state which seeks to preserve the unique culture of the indigenous Jewish people, while ensuring, in law, the rights of all peoples within her borders to freedom from discrimination for race, ethnicity, religion.


But their is a system of discrimination. Israel is an apartheid state.

*Citizen Strangers Minority Rights in the State of Israel *

**


----------



## rylah (May 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



I was right, this way You can always deny minorities their rights under  Arab-Muslim supremacy. This has been going far too long, ask Yazidis and Kurds..

But then again this is what You in the BDS stand for.


----------



## Shusha (May 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > You keep conflating land ownership with sovereignty.
> ...



I am not going to watch an hour long video to hear the same tired old concepts you have been espousing for the year and a half I've been on this forum.  If there is something new and interesting I should see -- give me the minute to start watching from, some inkling of why its relevant or new and preferably your personal take on it.  I respect your need for an auditory medium for your visual impairments, but please also respect my need for a visual medium for my auditory impairments.  



Let's not conflate sovereignty and discrimination.  They are two different things.  Sovereignty is the (inherent) right of ethnic and cultural groups to self-determination.  Discrimination is the inability to provide, in law or in practice, the right of all people to equal treatment.  Either can exist without the other.  And rights to sovereignty do not depend on an absence of discrimination.
The fact that discrimination exists in a nation does not in the SLIGHTEST affect their sovereignty over territory.  Thus, Saudi Arabia can restrict the rights of women and not have her sovereignty questioned or delegitimized.  Thus, Russia can round up and imprison gay people and not have her sovereignty questioned or delegitimized.  Thus, the USA can be horribly racist and not have her sovereignty questioned or delegitimized.  All this conversation about discrimination and "apartheid" (completely inaccurate) is therefore irrelevant.  It affects the sovereignty of Israel not one tiny little bit.  

So, back to the initial point of discussion this thread:

A State which seeks to preserve and self-determine a specific cultural or ethnic group on their territory of origin, ancestry and history has consistently been proven to be a legitimate form of State development and formation.  The Jewish people have more history than nearly anyone.


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## P F Tinmore (May 28, 2017)

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...





Shusha said:


> I am not going to watch an hour long video


That's why you never learn anything. It shows in your posts.


----------



## Hollie (May 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Your cut and paste Islamist propaganda videos are hardly a learning experience. While they reinforce dogma, stereotypes and propaganda - valuable to those like you - why would you think others woud take such tripe seriously?


----------



## Shusha (May 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> That's why you never learn anything. It shows in your posts.



People who have things to teach would be able to respond to the substance of my comments.  They would be able to dissect and interpret the videos they post and comment on relevant material.  They would not be limited to lame one-liners.  

We are currently discussing this specific question:  _A State which seeks to preserve and self-determine a specific cultural or ethnic group on their territory of origin, ancestry and history has consistently been proven to be a legitimate form of State development and formation. _

Put up or shut up.  In your own words.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 28, 2017)

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > That's why you never learn anything. It shows in your posts.
> ...


OK, but legally Palestine is a state. Politically it is not.

It is just the opposite for Israel.


----------



## Hollie (May 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Actually, it's the Magical Kingdom of Disney Pal'istan.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 28, 2017)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


Your usual deflection from the issues.


----------



## Hollie (May 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Your usual retreat to inventing a history that conforms to your delusions and misconceptions.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 28, 2017)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


So, what makes Israel a legitimate, not merely a political, state?


----------



## Hollie (May 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



You do know the above has been addressed for you multiple times, right? 

I see you abandoned your spamming this thread with your silly "country of Arab-islamist'istan", nonsense just as you have abandoned it before when you realized your position is indefensible. 

Why do you feel a need to spam multiple threads with the same nonsense when that nonsensical position crashes into the ground in flames?


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 28, 2017)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


Not so. Nobody has ever proven my premise to be false.


----------



## Hollie (May 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



I have proven your premise to be false. You have not disproved my disproof of your premise.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 28, 2017)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


Link?


----------



## Hollie (May 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 28, 2017)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


Link to your proof that my premise is false?

Your proof not mine.


----------



## Hollie (May 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Provide the link to your post where you made a positive claim. 

You have none.

Until then, you have not disproved my disproof of your premise.


----------



## Roudy (May 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Jews were not the first people?!  Bwahahahahaha. Certainly they were there way before the Christians and the Muslims. Did you fail in world history as well?


----------



## Roudy (May 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Palestinian state?!  When, where, and how?


----------



## Roudy (May 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


When was Palestine a state, legally, politically or ANYTHING?!


----------



## Roudy (May 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


You don't even have a premise for it to be false.  Blurting out insane claims does not consitute a "premise".


----------



## louie888 (May 28, 2017)

Roudy said:


> You don't even have a premise for it to be false.  Blurting out insane claims does not consitute a "premise".


I go away for just a couple of days and the level of dumb rises at an insane level.

This thread is for: *Zionists who Deny the Existence of the Palestinian Christians and Muslims *

The point has been made and is unmistakable. Everyone reading along should note the multiple pages of trolling by our Israeli posters who refuse to see what clearly is right in front of their noses.


----------



## Roudy (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > You don't even have a premise for it to be false.  Blurting out insane claims does not consitute a "premise".
> ...


Oh look who crawled out from under the rock! 

You never had a point, Achmed.  Nobody has ever denied the existence of Palestinian Christians or Muslims. 

Now show us when in history there was a "legal and political Palestinian state" as Tinmore is claiming.


----------



## louie888 (May 28, 2017)

Roudy said:


> Zzzzz...what a buffoon, nobody is denying the "existence" of Muslims or Christians, they were the same people who invaded the holy land of the Jews.  And despite that, the Jews kept a presence and kept coming back to their religious, ancestral, and cultural holy land over the mellenia.
> 
> Actually it's you terrorist ass kissers that deny the presence and migration of Jews to Israel over the last two thousand years.


Zzzzz...what a buffoon, nobody is denying the "existence" of Jews, they were the same people who invaded the holy land of the Christians and Muslims.  And despite that, the Christians and Muslims kept a presence and kept coming back to their religious, ancestral, and cultural holy land over the millennia. 

Actually it's you terrorist ass kissers that deny the presence of Muslims in Palestine over the last two thousand years.


----------



## Hollie (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Zzzzz...what a buffoon, nobody is denying the "existence" of Muslims or Christians, they were the same people who invaded the holy land of the Jews.  And despite that, the Jews kept a presence and kept coming back to their religious, ancestral, and cultural holy land over the mellenia.
> ...



Awkward.

Islam was invented less than 1,400 years ago, Mr. Muhammud Bumpkin. 

Math is not a priority at your madrassah so I'm glad to lend an assist. 

Muslims didn't exist two thousand years ago because Islamism had not yet been invented. 

Your homework for tonight is to plot a reverse timeline on graph paper. Tell us what you find..... and then stop slamming your forehead on the mat. 

You may eventually emerge from your coma.


----------



## louie888 (May 28, 2017)

Hollie said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


Again now, I go away for just a couple of days and the level of dumb rises at an insane level.

This thread is for: *Zionists who Deny the Existence of the Palestinian Christians and Muslims *

The point has been made and is unmistakable. Everyone reading along should note the multiple pages of trolling by our Israeli posters who refuse to see what clearly is right in front of their noses.

The jews today in Palestine are Europeans, Mrs. Bumpkin.

Recent history is not a priority at your temple so I'm glad to lend an assist.

Your homework for tonight is to read some actual history on this topic and see for yourself that yes, there were people there when the Europeans arrived, both Christian and Muslim. Tell us what you find..... and then stop slamming your forehead on the mat.

You may eventually emerge from your coma.


----------



## Hollie (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...



That was a lot of your usual plagiarizing and a lot of your usual befuddled spamming in an attempt to defend your profound ignorance.

How is it that Moslems existed in your imaginary "country of Pal'istan" two thousand years ago when,

1. There was never a "country of Pal'istan", and,
2. Islamism did not exist two thousand years ago, hence, no Islamists two thousand years ago. 

Really, muhammud, maybe try banging you forehead with yet greater force to see if that will knock some sense into you.


----------



## louie888 (May 28, 2017)

Hollie said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...



That was a lot of your usual dumb and a lot of your usual befuddled spamming in an attempt to defend your profound ignorance.

How is it that Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century?

1. *There were Palestinian people who lived there, both Christian and Muslim* and,
2. Judaism has nothing to do with zionism, hence, no zionists even need to be there.
Really, sweety, maybe try banging you forehead with yet greater force to see if that will knock some sense into you.

I even bolded the important part for you, now get back to your homework. It really was not that difficult an assignment, even for a young child.


----------



## Hollie (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...





How is it that Moslems existed in your imaginary "country of Pal'istan" two thousand years ago when,

1. There was never a "country of Pal'istan", and,
2. Islamism did not exist two thousand years ago, hence, no Islamists two thousand years ago. 

Really, muhammud, maybe try banging you forehead with yet greater force to see if that will knock some sense into you.

How could muhammedans have lived in your imaginary "country of Pal'istan" two thousand years ago? As we know, muhammud stole ruthlessly from both Judaism and Christianity for his invention of Islamism. 

Islamism did not exist two thousand years ago, thus, Moslems did not live in your invented "country of Pal'istan" two thousand years ago.

It's too late for your attempts to revise and re-word your failed argument. 

Consider "doing an islam" and smack the forehead of the prayer leader at your madrassah on his prayer mat. You will both feel better about yourselves.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 28, 2017)

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


You need to read up on your history. Palestine became a successor state to the Turkish Empire upon the signing of the Treat of Lausanne.


----------



## Indeependent (May 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Back to the Treaty that never was.
When the hell are you going to grow up?


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 28, 2017)

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


Perhaps you could answer the question.

I didn't think so.


----------



## Hollie (May 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Perhaps because for others not afflicted with your ignorance, there is a thread dedicated to addressing your confusion on this and other issues. 

How is it this still leaves you so befuddled?


----------



## louie888 (May 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> You need to read up on your history. Palestine became a successor state to the Turkish Empire upon the signing of the Treat of Lausanne.


They aren't exactly teaching history to these people.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 28, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


Not so. It was the Treaty of Sevres that was never ratified. A similar treaty, the Treaty of Lausanne, was later signed and ratified.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 28, 2017)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


There is and the same questions are ducked there also.


----------



## Hollie (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > You need to read up on your history. Palestine became a successor state to the Turkish Empire upon the signing of the Treat of Lausanne.
> ...



What history? Your invented history that has Moslems in your invented "country of Pal'istan" even before the invention of Islamism?

That's a fascinating bit of islamo-history. Moslems existed before Moslems existed. 

The stuff you learn from the comatose.


----------



## Hollie (May 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Nice dodge.


----------



## louie888 (May 28, 2017)

Hollie said:


> What history? Your invented history that has Moslems in your invented "country of Pal'istan" even before the invention of Islamism?
> 
> That's a fascinating bit of islamo-history. Moslems existed before Moslems existed.
> 
> The stuff you learn from the comatose.


Stop trying to learn from your comatose and maybe, just maybe you will be able to wrap the few brain cells of yours that apparently still fire around these simple, basic and obvious facts.

*1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century.
2) There were Palestinian people who lived there, both Christian and Muslim .
*
See how easy that was? Neither of those simple points are even disputed. 

*We call this easily verifiable historical fact. *Try it sometime; it's pretty cool.


----------



## Hollie (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > What history? Your invented history that has Moslems in your invented "country of Pal'istan" even before the invention of Islamism?
> ...



It is not at all surprising how you chose to redefine, edit and change your babbling after you were corrected for your glaringly incompetent claim.

Which was: "Actually it's you terrorist ass kissers that deny the presence of Muslims in Palestine over the last two thousand years."




To which I responded:

"Awkward.

Islam was invented less than 1,400 years ago, Mr. Muhammud Bumpkin. 

Math is not a priority at your madrassah so I'm glad to lend an assist. 

Muslims didn't exist two thousand years ago because Islamism had not yet been invented. 

Your homework for tonight is to plot a reverse timeline on graph paper. Tell us what you find..... and then stop slamming your forehead on the mat. 

You may eventually emerge from your coma."


So tell us then, how did muhammedans exist in your invented "country of Pal'istan" two thousand years ago when muhammedan'ism was only invented 1,400 years ago?

You're claiming tat muhammedans existed before muhammedans existed? 

Fascinating. "Islamo-reasoning" at its most profoundly confused.


----------



## louie888 (May 28, 2017)

Hollie said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


The fact that you are unable to wrap the few brain cells of yours that apparently still fire around these simple, basic and obvious facts does not change these simple facts.

*1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century.
2) There were Palestinian people who lived there, both Christian and Muslim .
*
See how easy that was? Neither of those simple points are even disputed.You, yourself do not dispute them, yet remain befuddled which is quite a mystery.

Again now, *We call this easily verifiable historical fact. *Try it sometime; it's pretty cool. It really is, sweety.


----------



## Hollie (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...



It is not at all surprising how you chose to redefine, edit and change your babbling after you were corrected for your glaringly incompetent claim.

Which was: "Actually it's you terrorist ass kissers that deny the presence of Muslims in Palestine over the last two thousand years."




To which I responded:

"Awkward.

Islam was invented less than 1,400 years ago, Mr. Muhammud Bumpkin. 

Math is not a priority at your madrassah so I'm glad to lend an assist. 

Muslims didn't exist two thousand years ago because Islamism had not yet been invented. 

Your homework for tonight is to plot a reverse timeline on graph paper. Tell us what you find..... and then stop slamming your forehead on the mat. 

You may eventually emerge from your coma."


So tell us then, how did muhammedans exist in your invented "country of Pal'istan" two thousand years ago when muhammedan'ism was only invented 1,400 years ago?

You're claiming tat muhammedans existed before muhammedans existed? 

Fascinating. "Islamo-reasoning" at its most profoundly confused.


----------



## louie888 (May 28, 2017)

Hollie said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


Spamming your cut and pastes tirelessly and multiple times does not change these obvious facts:

*1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century.
2) There were Palestinian people who lived there, both Christian and Muslim.*


----------



## Shusha (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> *1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century.
> 2) There were Palestinian people who lived there, both Christian and Muslim .
> *
> See how easy that was? Neither of those simple points are even disputed.



1) Jews moved (returned) to Palestine in the last century.  Others also moved to Palestine in the last century. 
2) There were a people who lived there, Christian, Muslim and Jew.
3) Before there were Christian Romans and Muslim Arabs there were Jewish Jews.  

Surely you are not going to dispute that, now, are you?


----------



## Hollie (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...



Your sloppy editing and altering of your claim is still awaiting a response.

Your claim was: "*Actually it's you terrorist ass kissers that deny the presence of Muslims in Palestine over the last two thousand years."
*
How did muhammedans exist before muhammedans existed?

You need to focus on your koranology studies. 

Here's a pop quiz. When was Islam invented?


----------



## louie888 (May 28, 2017)

Shusha said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > *1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century.
> ...


It matters not whether they call themselves Jews or not. They are European. They are not returning unless they go back to Europe.


----------



## Hollie (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...



That's an odd evaluation. Are we to agree that muhammedans have an entitlement to your invented "country of Pal'istan" because muhammedans  were in Pal'istan even before muhammedans existed?


----------



## Hollie (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...



"They" (the Egyptians, Syrians and Lebanese masquerading as "Pal'istanians") are not returning unless they go back to Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.


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## P F Tinmore (May 28, 2017)

Hollie said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...





Hollie said:


> Muslims didn't exist two thousand years ago because Islamism had not yet been invented.


Good point. Did Native Americans not exist before it was America?


----------



## Hollie (May 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...



Inappropriate analogy. But, when one is observing "_The Tinmore Vortex_" one expects inappropriate.


----------



## louie888 (May 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...


Your analogy is spot on. In hollyworld they didn't lol, but we are talking about a women who refuses to even acknowledge the most basic facts.

*1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century.
2) There were Palestinian people who lived there, both Christian and Muslim.*


----------



## Hollie (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...





Your sloppy editing and altering of your claim is still awaiting a response.

Your claim was: "*Actually it's you terrorist ass kissers that deny the presence of Muslims in Palestine over the last two thousand years."*

How did muhammedans exist before muhammedans existed?

You need to focus on your koranology studies. 

Here's a pop quiz. When was Islam invented?


----------



## louie888 (May 28, 2017)

Hollie said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


So, you do realize that *1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century. And that 2) There were Palestinian people who lived there, both Christian and Muslim.

Awesome!*


----------



## Hollie (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...




You're promoting your ignorance on a public discussion board. An achievement of some merit, I suppose. But, doesn't that make you feel, at the very least, dirty?

But, back to the rational world.

You stated: "*Actually it's you terrorist ass kissers that deny the presence of Muslims in Palestine over the last two thousand years."
*
If we agree that Islamism was invented only about 1,400 years ago, how could Moslems have had a presence in your invented "country of Pal'istan" over the last two thousand years?

Can you support your claim that Islamism existed two thousand years ago?

As best that I can discern, Islam, (which is the politico-religious ideology and the hierarchical structure as derived from the source material that moslems will claim was (allegedly), “revealed” by an angel to muhammud (swish), who partnered with a god,) was only invented 1,400 years ago.

So, your claim: *Actually it's you terrorist ass kissers that deny the presence of Muslims in Palestine over the last two thousand years." *
Is suspiciously lacking.

Then again, doesn't the term "lacking" define all of your cutting and pasting of cartoons and now muhammedans existing before muhammedans existed?


----------



## louie888 (May 28, 2017)

So, you do realize that *1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century. And that 2) There were Palestinian people who lived there, both Christian and Muslim.
*
That is all we needed to know. Thanks.


----------



## Roudy (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Zzzzz...what a buffoon, nobody is denying the "existence" of Muslims or Christians, they were the same people who invaded the holy land of the Jews.  And despite that, the Jews kept a presence and kept coming back to their religious, ancestral, and cultural holy land over the mellenia.
> ...


Muslims in the past two thousand years, when Islam is only 1400 years old?  Maybe if you weren't such an illiterate ignoramus, and properly read your own Koran and the NT you would see that according to those books, God promised the land to the Jews.  Your Muhammad even told you to point your anus towards Mecca. 

Epic fail.


----------



## Roudy (May 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Successor state?!  Bwahahahahaha.


----------



## Roudy (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> So, you do realize that *1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century. And that 2) There were Palestinian people who lived there, both Christian and Muslim.
> *
> That is all we needed to know. Thanks.


European Jews moved back to their ancestral and religious homeland, to join their brethern, who had been there before the Muslims and Christians, and always maintained a presence and kept coming back.


----------



## Indeependent (May 28, 2017)

Roudy said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > So, you do realize that *1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century. And that 2) There were Palestinian people who lived there, both Christian and Muslim.
> ...


Isn't it fun conversing with imbeciles?


----------



## Roudy (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > You need to read up on your history. Palestine became a successor state to the Turkish Empire upon the signing of the Treat of Lausanne.
> ...


Yeah, we didn't attend Madrassa Islamic religious school like you did, Achmed.


----------



## louie888 (May 28, 2017)

Roudy said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > So, you do realize that *1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century. And that 2) There were Palestinian people who lived there, both Christian and Muslim.
> ...


You just admitted they were European. LMAO, as you admit it is NOT their ancestral homeland any more than America was.


----------



## Roudy (May 28, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...


To be honest...At times I feel guilty of mocking someone who is cuckoo


----------



## Roudy (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...


Some did come from Europe.  Is that a revelation? Doesn't exclude that they are Jews with ties to Israel and their ancestors, idiot.  LOL


----------



## louie888 (May 28, 2017)

*Cloudy,


1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century. 

2) There were Palestinian people who lived there, both Christian and Muslim.

Are those facts or not in your world?*


----------



## Roudy (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...


Bzzzzzt. Wrong again Achmed.  Majority of Israelis today comprise of Sephardic / Mizrahi Jews that came from the Middle East or descendants of.


----------



## Hollie (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> *Cloudy,
> 
> 
> 1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century.
> ...



There were no muhammedans living in your imagined "country of Pal'istan" two thousand years ago. 

Can you guess why?

I don't want to burden you with facts but, come on, take a guess.


----------



## louie888 (May 28, 2017)

Roudy said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


FALSE!

Nearly 100% of Israel's "Jews" are from Europe and genetically are in fact Aryans. Don't be dumb.


----------



## Roudy (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> *Cloudy,
> 
> 
> 1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century.
> ...


Jews have been there throughout the Mellenia, Jews from Europe have been coming there since the 1400's. There were Arabs who lived in the Ottoman Empire that collapsed. The conquerers aka the British and the French divided all the Middle East into the Muslim shitholes we see today, and designated less than 1% of the land to be the Jewish state.  Greedy Arabs wanted it, tough shit, it wasn't up to them.


----------



## Roudy (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...


Ha ha ha ha, ARAYANS! Yup...  take your meds Achmed. Majority of Israel's Jews are now what you call "Arab Jews". Eat shit.


----------



## louie888 (May 28, 2017)

Roudy said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > *Cloudy,
> ...


*Cloudy,


1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century. 

2) There were Palestinian people who lived there, both Christian and Muslim.

Are those facts or not in your world?*


----------



## Roudy (May 28, 2017)

Hollie said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Didn't you know?  The first man on the moon was also secretly a Muslim!


----------



## Hollie (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...



Muhammedans lived in your invented "country of Pal'istan" two thousand years ago?

Tell us more. That's a fascinating claim.


----------



## Indeependent (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...


Facts out of context.


----------



## Roudy (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...


You have reading comprehension problems.  Nobody is denying that European Jews migrated there.  But so did other Jews, and many were already there.  

Look, what's all of this going to get you Achmed...the Jews are in charge, and aren't going anywhere.  Now, I understand it's Rama-dung and you guys get especially violent and insane just to show how peaceful your religion truly is, but it's only the beginning.  Save all the blood and insanity for the last week...what kind of a Muslim are you anyhow?!


----------



## louie888 (May 28, 2017)

Roudy said:


> Didn't you know?  The first man on the moon was also secretly a Muslim!


The moon? I know it's hard for you to follow even the simplest threads, but *Cloudy, *try to answer the simple question.*

1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century. 

2) There were Palestinian people who lived there, both Christian and Muslim.

Are those facts or not in your world? *


----------



## Indeependent (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Didn't you know?  The first man on the moon was also secretly a Muslim!
> ...


Facts out of context are out of context no matter how many times they are posted by a retard such as yourself.


----------



## Hollie (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Didn't you know?  The first man on the moon was also secretly a Muslim!
> ...



I'm interested in your facts regarding muhammedans existing before muhammedans existed.


----------



## Roudy (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Didn't you know?  The first man on the moon was also secretly a Muslim!
> ...


1- Jews were and have been migrating  for the last two thousand years.
2- no such thing as a Palestinian for the last 800 years.  It's a recent invention as of 1960's.  The Muslims and Christians arrived in the holy land as invaders. They've been fighting and killing each other over the Jewish holy land.

Now repeat this special chant for Rama-dung after me....IDF AKBAR! IDF AKBAR!


----------



## Roudy (May 28, 2017)

Hollie said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


If you thought Achmed was insane before, wait until you see the effects of Rama-dung on his brain.


----------



## Roudy (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...


Show me a link Achmed.  Go ahead make my day.


----------



## theliq (May 28, 2017)

Hollie said:


> So, the us about the former invading / colonizing Islamists and Christians occupying your invented "country of Pal'istan".


You are a FOOL


----------



## theliq (May 28, 2017)

Roudy said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...


Really Rouds,these ridiculous insulting posts do you no good,what has happened to you?????????? you use to be interesting and informative in the past.....have the Zionists GOT YOU by the short and curlys these days..steve


----------



## theliq (May 28, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > The Europeans are focused on a peaceful solution.  The solution can't be equitable as the Jews after the British supported colonization, are now a reality on the ground and the Palestinians have to accept that Jews now represent a substantial presence and they are going nowhere, however, the dynamic that Jews must rule over non-Jews is not a solution.
> ...


Why should the Palestinians NOT HAVE their own Country(considering the barbaric treatment they have had from the Synthetic Non Semitic Zionist Jews).....by the way Jews on-mass deserted  Palestine for 1950 years....you have really NO RIGHT OF RETURN


----------



## Indeependent (May 28, 2017)

theliq said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


As I said earlier today...reset to Noah.


----------



## louie888 (May 28, 2017)

Roudy said:


> Show me a link Achmed.  Go ahead make my day.


Wait, you need a link to know that*...

1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century. 

2) There were Palestinian people who lived there, both Christian and Muslim.

Are those facts or not in your world? *


----------



## Indeependent (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Show me a link Achmed.  Go ahead make my day.
> ...


Actually, you need a Link that anyone other than the NK in the Jewish world give a shit about what the NK say.
HINT:  Nobody does.


----------



## louie888 (May 28, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


LOL, wrong thread, dude.

We are discussing two simple and obvious facts.

*1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century. 

2) There were Palestinian people who lived there, both Christian and Muslim.

Are those facts or not in your world? *


----------



## Indeependent (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...


I guess you didn't study the Romans conquering Israel and taking the educated Jews off to Rome.
But I forget, that's not on the NK site.


----------



## Shusha (May 28, 2017)

Louie, the Jewish people lived there before the Christian Romans and the Arab Muslims.  Fact. 

You are doing a stellar job of confirming the pro-Israel position on this thread -- that the denial of the Jewish people and their rights is FAR more entrenched than any denial of the "Palestinians".  

As a thank you for the work you've done to prove our point, have some cookies:


----------



## louie888 (May 28, 2017)

Shusha said:


> Louie, the Jewish people lived there before the Christian Romans and the Arab Muslims.  Fact.
> 
> You are doing a stellar job of confirming the pro-Israel position on this thread -- that the denial of the Jewish people and their rights is FAR more entrenched than any denial of the "Palestinians".
> 
> ...


As usual, you totally missed the point.

We are discussing two simple and obvious facts.

*1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century. 

2) There were Palestinian people who lived there, both Christian and Muslim.

Are those facts or not in your world? *


----------



## Shusha (May 28, 2017)

louie888 said:


> As usual, you totally missed the point.
> 
> We are discussing two simple and obvious facts.
> 
> ...



Those are no more facts than claiming "mixing chocolate and butter together makes cookies" is a fact.

The Jewish people moved BACK to Israel, Judea and Samaria.  Jews from Europe.  Jews from North Africa.  Jews from the Americas.  Jews from Australia.  Jews from the Middle East.  Jews from India.  Jews from freaking China.  Jews from everywhere in the Diaspora. They moved BACK there to join their fellow Jews who never left, despite intense efforts by numerous invading peoples. 

This whole thread is about refusing to acknowledge the existence of a people.  All of your posts today *erase* the Jewish people.  *You literally refuse to put the Jewish people on the page.  


*
And you are both a hypocrite and a fool to be posting on THIS thread about THIS topic.


----------



## theliq (May 28, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...


As spoken by a true Synthetic  who thinks he is the Real Deal..He ain't of course


----------



## louie888 (May 28, 2017)

Shusha said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > As usual, you totally missed the point.
> ...


Actually, it is the perfect thread, you just hate how obvious that I am able to make it.

We are discussing two simple and obvious facts.

*1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century. 

2) There were Palestinian people who lived there, both Christian and Muslim.

Are those facts or not in your world? *


----------



## theliq (May 28, 2017)

Shusha said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > As usual, you totally missed the point.
> ...


I correct you Shusha......NOT SEMITIC JEWS.....JUST JEWISH CONVERTS=THE SYNTHETICS,WHO ILLEGALY ENTERED PALESTINE


----------



## louie888 (May 28, 2017)

theliq said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...


Because she constantly must conflate Jews with zionist scum to make her "points", she is always capable of missing simple and obvious points. In this case, she can't even offer a straight answer to:

*1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century. 

2) There were Palestinian people who lived there, both Christian and Muslim.

Are those facts or not in your world?*


----------



## Roudy (May 29, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Show me a link Achmed.  Go ahead make my day.
> ...


I want to see a link that "100% of Israelis are of European / Aryan descent" 

Now put up or shut up.


----------



## Roudy (May 29, 2017)

theliq said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...


Israeli Jews aren't semetic?!  Woooooo you and Achmed must be smoking the same shit!  Or maybe it's early symptoms of Rama-dung.


----------



## Roudy (May 29, 2017)

louie888 said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


I like how Monte's sock aka Achmed Louie changes the *font* to make us think it isn't him.

You deny these two facts:

1- many Jews were already there, and in fact starting in the 1400's by invitation of the Ottomans migrated to their holy land in larger numbers. And by the mid 1800's the majority population of Jerusalem was Jewish, who were not recent European migrants.
2- majority of Arabs who call themselves Palestinians today are invaders and squatters from neighboring Arab countries.


----------



## theliq (May 29, 2017)

Roudy said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


Read and COMPREHEND Rouds....I have never said all Israeli Jews are Synthetics just the Majority,Unfortunately or FORTUNATELY MOST Semitic Jewish people in Israel detest Synthetic Zionists ..fact.....Zionist Converts can be Jewish but NEVER Semitic in ANYWAY AS THEY HAVE NO DIRECT LINK TO Abraham...THEY WERE CENTRAL ASIANS who just converted to judiasim SIC........why do you find the true fact so hard to comprehend ????????

Look we have all watched how Zionists/Zionism have tried to entwine themselves with Judiasm but it is a complete falsehood....your beloved Zionism is basically a cult manufactured in in England circa 1895 by a NON SEMITIC Gay,Athiest Jew as you full well know......the majority of Semitic people are in fact the Palestinians.

Get with the programme Rouds or get off the site,and that goes for the rest of you NONE SEMITIC Zionist Trash.peddling your Bullshit.....steve


----------



## theliq (May 29, 2017)

Roudy said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...


WRONG AGAIN Rouds...you Silly Boy...When the Christians drove out the Jews from Spain the majority of refugees 98% got a safe haven in Contantinople in Byzantiam sic you fool....not the Ottomans..........Jesus Christ where is your mind.......your Math and Accuracy in your above post,would render you a E- in Australia.....You may think that you are an A+ in you mind but even Israel would ban you from entering the country..and that's saying something.

No Rouds stop talking shit please,as I said get with the Programme...NOW...steve,I can help you if you want.

I'm theliq....Helping Jews and Americans to understand History and Facts.........


----------



## rylah (May 29, 2017)

theliq said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...



Still fixated on that RACIAL PURITY thing??
Keep ...keep up the 'good work' for team-Palestine.


----------



## rylah (May 29, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Your premise was that 'nobody in the BDS denies Jews their right to live on that land'.

We just showed Your hypocrisy, louie and theliq helping along...
*What's next hiding behind "smart" one-liners or another senseless video?*


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 29, 2017)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


Refute away.


----------



## Indeependent (May 29, 2017)

theliq said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...


That was Spain; what about the Jews in Gernany, Poland and Russia?


----------



## Roudy (May 29, 2017)

theliq said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...


So such thing as a "synthetic Jew". Just the wild imagination of a rabid antisemite.


----------



## Roudy (May 29, 2017)

theliq said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...


You are blaberring incoherently again.  The Ottomans who were in control of the land starting in the 1400's invited the Jews to migrate back to their holy land as well as the rest of the Ottoman Empire.  I have posted many  articles as evidence.


----------



## louie888 (May 29, 2017)

We are discussing two simple and obvious facts.

*1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century. 

2) There were Palestinian people who lived there, both Christian and Muslim.

Are those facts or not in your world? *


----------



## Roudy (May 29, 2017)

louie888 said:


> We are discussing two simple and obvious facts.
> 
> *1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century.
> 
> ...


Monte you are such a "genius", using your sock to switch to your font and posting bullshit that has been answered over and over.


----------



## louie888 (May 29, 2017)

Roudy said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > We are discussing two simple and obvious facts.
> ...


We are discussing two simple and obvious facts.

*1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century. 

2) There were Palestinian people who lived there, both Christian and Muslim.

Are those facts or not in your world? *


----------



## Indeependent (May 29, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...


Facts out of context.
BTW, how did those Christians get there?
They weren't Jews who converted because that failed after Hebrews and that's why Saul had to write Romans.


----------



## louie888 (May 29, 2017)

Context? Really? That's all you got instead of answering a very simple question?

*1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century. 

2) There were Palestinian people who lived there, both Christian and Muslim.

Are those facts or not in your world? *


----------



## Indeependent (May 29, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Context? Really? That's all you got instead of answering a very simple question?
> 
> *1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century.
> 
> ...


So you would buy a house knowing nothing about the neighborhood?
You know what a 2 hour movie is about by watching 5 minutes?


----------



## Roudy (May 29, 2017)

Achmed the sock of Monte keeps repeating like a broken record.

 How many times did we tell you that there were already Jews that had been there before the Muslim and Christian invaders, they kept a presence, and kept coming back, despite all the pogroms and invasions.

There were no "Palestinian people" in the last 800 years.


----------



## louie888 (May 29, 2017)

Roudy said:


> Achmed the sock of Monte keeps repeating like a broken record.
> 
> How many times did we tell you that there were already Jews that had been there before the Muslim and Christian invaders, they kept a presence, and kept coming back, despite all the pogroms and invasions.
> 
> There were no "Palestinian people" in the last 800 years.


More of your irrelevant nonsense as you can't answer a simple question.

*1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century. 

2) There were Palestinian people who lived there, both Christian and Muslim.

Are those facts or not in your world? 

Well? Are they or are they not?*


----------



## Indeependent (May 29, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Achmed the sock of Monte keeps repeating like a broken record.
> ...


No one said they aren't facts.
What we said is they are facts out of context.
And you did not address my context questions.
I realize, though, that some questions are difficult for a 10 year to deal with.


----------



## Roudy (May 29, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Achmed the sock of Monte keeps repeating like a broken record.
> ...


Achmed, how about you eat some shit and then tell us where these Jews came from?

Safed

In 1553–54, the population consisted of 222 Muslim households, 24 Muslim religious leaders, 716 Jewish households, 56 Jewish bachelors, and 9 disabled persons.[24]

Safed rose to fame in the 16th century as a center of Kabbalah, or Jewish mysticism.[25] After the expulsion of all the Jews from Spain in 1492, many prominent rabbis found their way to Safed, among them the Kabbalists Isaac Luria and Moshe Kordovero; Joseph Caro, the author of the Shulchan Aruch and Shlomo Halevi Alkabetz, composer of the Sabbath hymn "Lecha Dodi". The influx of Sephardi Jews—reaching its peak under the rule of Sultans Suleiman I and Selim II—made Safed a global center for Jewish learning and a regional center for trade throughout 15th and 16th centuries.[25][26] During the early Ottoman period from 1525 to 1526, the population of Safed consisted of 633 Muslim families, 40 Muslim bachelors, 26 Muslim religious persons, nine Muslim disabled, 232 Jewish families, and 60 military families.[27] A Hebrew printing press was established in Safed in 1577 by Eliezer Ashkenazi and his son, Isaac of Prague.[10][28] In 1584, there were 32 synagogues registered in the town.[29]


----------



## Indeependent (May 29, 2017)

Roudy said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


Now, now, you are expecting Loser to actually read as opposed to Copy/Pasting from Achmed.com.


----------



## Roudy (May 29, 2017)

No Jews, eh Achmed Monte?   Just Muslims and Christians:

Hebron

Jews also appear to have lived there after the return from the Babylonian exile.[59] During the Maccabean revolt, Hebron was burnt and plundered by Judah Maccabee who fought against the Edomites in 167 BCE.[60][61] The city appears to have long resisted Hasmonean dominance, however, and indeed as late as the First Jewish–Roman War was still considered Jews also appear to have lived there after the return from the Babylonian exile.[59] During the Maccabean revolt, Hebron was burnt and plundered by Judah Maccabee who fought against the Edomites in 167 BCE.[60][61] The city appears to have long resisted Hasmonean dominance, however, and indeed as late as the First Jewish–Roman War was still considered Idumea

Hebron was visited by some important rabbis over the next two centuries, among them Nachmanides (1270) and Ishtori HaParchi (1322) who noted the old Jewish cemetery there.

Italian traveller, Meshulam of Volterra (1481) found not more that twenty Jewish families living in Hebron.[100][101] and recounted how the Jewish women of Hebron would disguise themselves with a veil in order to pass as Muslim women and enter the Cave of the Patriarchs without being recognized as Jews.[102]

In 1540, renowned kabbalist Malkiel Ashkenazi bought a courtyard from the small Karaite community, in which he established the Sephardi Abraham Avinu Synagogue.[111] In 1659, Abraham Pereyra of Amsterdam founded the _Hesed Le'Abraham yeshiva_ in Hebron which attracted many students.[112] In the early 18th century, the Jewish community suffered from heavy debts, almost quadrupling from 1717–1729,[113] and were "almost crushed" from the extortion practiced by the Turkish pashas. In 1773 or 1775, a large/substantial amount of money was extorted from the Jewish community, who paid up to avert a threatened catastrophe, after a false allegation was made accusing them of having murdered the son of a local sheikh and throwing his body into a cesspit. Emissaries from the community were frequently sent overseas to solicit funds.[114][115]


----------



## Roudy (May 29, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...


I can't believe what a light weight he is.  Only two days of Rama-dung and he's already totally loosing it.  FYI the Rama-dung fast is for pussies, they eat in the morning and then in the late afternoon. Basically skipping a meal. It's just the duration (40 days) that drives them insane.


----------



## teddyearp (May 29, 2017)

montelatici said:


> The Muslims and Christians are descendants of Jews and Samaritans that converted to Christianity after the establishment of Christianity as the state religion of Rome. Most of those Christians subsequently converted to Islam after the Muslims conquest.


Yawn! Here we go again.  Not all the Jews converted, they moved up north instead.


----------



## montelatici (May 29, 2017)

teddyearp said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > The Muslims and Christians are descendants of Jews and Samaritans that converted to Christianity after the establishment of Christianity as the state religion of Rome. Most of those Christians subsequently converted to Islam after the Muslims conquest.
> ...



Sigh. Very few moved north.  The vast majority stayed at home and converted.  It is quite normal, landowners, people with businesses or careers (in the Roman administration, for example) stayed home.  Some troublemakers left, that's all.


----------



## rylah (May 29, 2017)

montelatici said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



_"The Muslims and Christians are descendants of ONLY....of course the face of Palestine NEVER changed...it's all the same people since the day Jews left" _


According to the 15th-century historian Mujir ad-Din, the quarter was established in 1193 by Saladin's son al-Malik al-Afdal, as a _waqf_ (charitable trust) dedicated to Moroccan immigrants; he also established a school there, the _Afdaliyyah_.[3] Later pious Moroccan donors extended this with several other _waqfs_: in 1303, one Umar ibn Abdullah ibn Abdun-Nabi al-Masmudi al-Mujarrad endowed the al-Masmudia zaouia (religious school) for the benefit of Moroccans living in the Moroccan Quarter...

Moroccan Quarter - Wikipedia


----------



## montelatici (May 29, 2017)

Of course.  Wiki, the Hasbara tool, must be accurate. LOL


----------



## Shusha (May 29, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Some troublemakers left, that's all.



Haha.  Can I apply this part to the current conflict, please?


----------



## rylah (May 29, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Of course.  Wiki, the Hasbara tool, must be accurate. LOL


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (May 29, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Of course.  Wiki, the Hasbara tool, must be accurate. LOL



Anyone can edit on Wikipedia.  I have.


----------



## rylah (May 29, 2017)

Morrocan Quarter of Jerusalem


----------



## montelatici (May 29, 2017)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Of course.  Wiki, the Hasbara tool, must be accurate. LOL
> ...



Yes, but the Jews train and give scholarships so that their lies overcome the facts.


----------



## montelatici (May 29, 2017)

Shusha said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Some troublemakers left, that's all.
> ...



Of course.  Except that some of the native troublemakers (to the invaders) have not left and have not converted.


----------



## Roudy (May 29, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Of course.  Wiki, the Hasbara tool, must be accurate. LOL


Is the Catholic Church a "Hasbara tool" as well, moron?

Growth of Jerusalem 1838-Present

....... Jews Muslims Christians Total
1838 6,000 5,000 3,000 14,000
*1844 7,120 5,760 3,390 16,270 ..... ..The First Official Ottoman Census *
1876 12,000 7,560 5,470 25,030 .... .....Second """"""""""
1905 40,000 8,000 10,900 58,900 ....... Third/last, detailed in CathEncyc above
1948 99,320 36,680 31,300 167,300
1990 353,200 124,200 14,000 491,400
1992 385,000 150,000 15,000 550,000

http://www.testimony-magazine.org/jerusalem/bring.htm


----------



## Roudy (May 29, 2017)

montelatici said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


No, you're fulla shit failure and always will be.

EARLY MODERN JEWISH HISTORY Overview d Ottoman Empire

*EARLY MODERN JEWISH HISTORY: Overview*


In the period after the Expulsion, some exiles made their way to Egypt, Syria and the Holy Land. Their numbers were small, though, because these areas were held by the Mamlukes, and were quite inhospitable places for settlement. This changed, however, in 1516-1517, with the Ottoman conquest of these territories. Exiles, descendants of exiles and conversos began making their way to ancient Jewish communities in the east: Cairo and Alexandria in Egypt, Damascus, Halab and Beirut in Syria, and Jerusalem and Safed in Eretz Israel. In a colorful and probably exaggerated account from 1517-1523, an Ashkenazic author writes as follows:

“In the time of the great Rabbi Ovadia [of Bertinora] the prayers were said according to the rite of the Mustarabim [indigenous Jews] who follow Maimonides in matters of custom and law. But now that the Sephardim have been added to the population, they have practically eliminated every other usage, and they do as they please. Three of the cantors are Sephardim and one is Mustarab, and each does as he pleases.”

We have especially good data on the growth of Sephardic settlement in Safed in the sixteenth century, the period of this community’s great material and spiritual flowering. Turkish tax records show that in 1525 there were some 48 European (probably Spanish-Jewish) families in Safed; by 1555 there were 143 Portuguese-Jewish and 324 Spanish-Jewish households. Incidentally, this data illustrates that the movement of Iberian Jews through the Mediterranean was an extended one that continued for many years after the expulsion.


----------



## Indeependent (May 30, 2017)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > ForeverYoung436 said:
> ...


Hasbera revised history!
If Jews ran the world Monty wouldn't have an Internet connection.


----------



## Roudy (May 30, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


They should make an amusement park for IslamoNazis and neo Nazis only, right next to Disney World, and call it: Monte World.  I can imagine the rides with evil Jews counting money, and drinking goy blood on Passover...it will be a hit!


----------



## montelatici (May 30, 2017)

You are so damn stupid.  You don't even read what link to.  LOL

“there is not a single Jew in the town who is a native Jew................ Turkish tax records show that in 1525 there were some 48 European (probably Spanish-Jewish) families in Safed; by 1555 there were 143 Portuguese-Jewish and 324 Spanish-Jewish households. "

You have reconfirmed the accuracy of the later British reports on Palestine. Thank you so much. 



*AN INTERIM REPORT*
*ON THE*
*CIVIL ADMINISTRATION*
*OF*

*PALESTINE,*

*during the period*
*1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.*


*AN INTERIM REPORT*
*ON THE*
*CIVIL ADMINISTRATION*
*OF*
*PALESTINE.*

*I.--THE CONDITION OF PALESTINE AFTER THE WAR.*

"The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. *Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews...."*

https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/0/349B02280A930813052565E90048ED1C


----------



## Roudy (May 30, 2017)

So you're taking a vague number by an organization not set up to report actual numbers, as opposed to the Ottoman census, which reported the ethnic and religious identities of individual tax payers, and the amount collect..  Yup, you're a moron, and a total hack propagandist.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Jerusalem After 1291 

"...Present condition of the City: (1907 edition)

Jerusalem (El Quds) is the capital of a sanjak and the seat of a mutasarrif directly dependent on the Sublime Porte. In the administration of the sanjak the mutasarrif is assisted by a council called majlis ida ra; the city has a municipal government (majlis baladiye) presided over by a mayor. The total population is estimated at 66,000. *The Turkish census of 1905, which counts only Ottoman subjects, gives these figures:
Jews, 45,000; Moslems, 8,000; Orthodox Christians, 6000;* Latins, 2500; Armenians, 950; Protestants, 800; Melkites, 250; Copts, 150; Abyssinians, 100; Jacobites, 100; Catholic Syrians, 50. During the Nineteenth century large suburbs to the north and east have grown up, chiefly for the use of the Jewish subjects. These suburbs contain nearly Half the present population...""




Growth of Jerusalem 1838-Present

....... Jews Muslims Christians Total
1838 6,000 5,000 3,000 14,000
*1844 7,120 5,760 3,390 16,270 ..... ..The First Official Ottoman Census *
1876 12,000 7,560 5,470 25,030 .... .....Second """"""""""
1905 40,000 8,000 10,900 58,900 ....... Third/last, detailed in CathEncyc above
1948 99,320 36,680 31,300 167,300
1990 353,200 124,200 14,000 491,400
1992 385,000 150,000 15,000 550,000

http://www.testimony-magazine.org/jerusalem/bring.html


----------



## Roudy (May 30, 2017)

montelatici said:


> You are so damn stupid.  You don't even read what link to.  LOL
> 
> “there is not a single Jew in the town who is a native Jew................ Turkish tax records show that in 1525 there were some 48 European (probably Spanish-Jewish) families in Safed; by 1555 there were 143 Portuguese-Jewish and 324 Spanish-Jewish households. "
> 
> ...


Hah?  More antisemitic vomit.  There is clear record of Jews migrating from Spain to Jerusalem, Safed, and Hebron in the  1200's, 1400',1500's, and 1600's.  That's about 900 years ago.  Not native enough compared to the Muslim and Christian invaders?  Well, they migrated to join OTHER NATIVE JEWS, who had already been there.  Eat shit.


----------



## Roudy (May 30, 2017)

*Hey Achmed, interesting eh? They don't even call it Palestine!  Ha ha ha, what a dumbass you are.  *

*CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Jerusalem (After 1291)*

*Present condition of the city*
*Jerusalem (El Quds) is the capital of a sanjak *and the seat of a mutasarrif directly dependent on the _Sublime Porte_. In the administration of the sanjak the mutasarrif is assisted by a council called _majlis ida ra_; the city has a municipal government (_majlis baladiye_) presided over by a mayor. The total population is estimated at 66,000. *The Turkish census of 1905, which counts only Ottoman subjects, gives these figures: Jews, 45,000; Moslems, 8,000; Orthodox Christians, 6000; Latins, 2500; Armenians, 950; Protestants, 800; Melkites,ú Copts, 150; Abyssinians, 100; Jacobites, 100; Catholic Syrians, 50. During the nineteenth century large suburbs to the north and east have grown up, chiefly for the use of the Jewish subjects. These suburbs contain nearly half the present population.*


----------



## Roudy (May 30, 2017)

According to Monte, the Jews who had been there for thousands of years and kept coming back, have no rights to the land, but the Muslim invaders do.  Ha ha ha!


----------



## montelatici (May 30, 2017)

Now the facts on film.


----------



## montelatici (May 30, 2017)

Roudy said:


> So you're taking a vague number by an organization not set up to report actual numbers, as opposed to the Ottoman census, which reported the ethnic and religious identities of individual tax payers, and the amount collect..  Yup, you're a moron, and a total hack propagandist.
> 
> CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Jerusalem After 1291
> 
> ...



So, the facts show that Muslims and Christians were the majority in Jerusalem until the European Jews began invading.  That's what we are saying dummy. You keep proving my point.  Thanks.


----------



## Roudy (May 30, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Now the facts on film.


Right, we're taking a "film" over official Ottoman census numbers. 

You are truly pathetic.


----------



## Roudy (May 30, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > So you're taking a vague number by an organization not set up to report actual numbers, as opposed to the Ottoman census, which reported the ethnic and religious identities of individual tax payers, and the amount collect..  Yup, you're a moron, and a total hack propagandist.
> ...


No dickhead, your point was that "there were no Jews in Israel before 1948". Or "there were 'hardly' any Jews before 1948". Which is clearly false.  How many is  "hardly", knucklehead?  Which idiot quotes numbers by using adjectives? An antisemtic IslamoNazi ass kisser, that's who. LOL

Jews always maintained a presence, and kept coming back, despite all the Muslim and Christian invasions. The land is theirs, case closed.


----------



## montelatici (May 30, 2017)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Now the facts on film.
> ...



I have the Ottoman Census numbers.  Your's are bogus.   I have the census reports.  I have posted them in the past.  As I recall there were about 6,000 female and 7,000 male Jews in Palestine in 1883. 

The film is documentary evidence from a time where there was little partisanship.  So, it is accurate.


----------



## Hollie (May 30, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


".... because I say so."

There's a shared syndrome among the Pom Pom flailers for the Islamic Death Cult wherein they believe that YouTube videos are the only reliable source of history.


----------



## teddyearp (May 30, 2017)

montelatici said:


> You are so damn stupid.  You don't even read what link to.  LOL
> 
> “there is not a single Jew in the town who is a native Jew................ Turkish tax records show that in 1525 there were some 48 European (probably Spanish-Jewish) families in Safed; by 1555 there were 143 Portuguese-Jewish and 324 Spanish-Jewish households. "
> 
> ...


Hahaha!  Sally, you're so good for a laugh. You try to compare actual records from 1525 to a 'report' made four hundred years later. And funnier still is that your report from 1920-1 attempts to declare how many Jews were in the country over a full generation earlier; yes, how can a 'committee' know anything that was in existence over seventy years earlier?

Please, oh please all knowing wizard of OZ, do tell us what happened to those Jews that were in the country in 1525.  Tell us please all knowing wizard how to reconcile the number to 'just a handful' four hundred years later.

Do not blame it on the Romans and their conversion to Christianity for most of the residents almost 1300 years earlier.  Do not blame it on the Muslum invasion of about 700 years earlier and that conversion. Do not blame it on the Crusades that happened 3-400 years earlier.

Well, unless you have some sort of facts to pin it all on my aforementioned events.  Highly doubtful, lol.


----------



## teddyearp (May 30, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Now the facts on film.


 I tore the shit out of that bullshit video in at least one other thread.


----------



## louie888 (May 30, 2017)

teddyearp said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Now the facts on film.
> ...


I thought this thread was over with none of you able to answer a very basic question based on the known FACTS.

*1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century. 

2) There were Palestinian people who lived there, both Christian and Muslim.

Are those facts or not in your world? *


----------



## teddyearp (May 30, 2017)

montelatici said:


> One of the key goals of Zionist propaganda is to make people believe that the Muslim and Christian people of Palestine did a not exist when the European Zionists began colonizing Palestine.



I call bullshit on this.  Unless you can prove otherwise, I have not seen any document linked to and/or posted by any Pro-Israel person that denies the existence of Muslim and Christian peoples in the area now known as The State of Israel when Jews started returning en-mass.  Therefore we are left with the truth about why this thread was REALLY created:



Shusha said:


> The irony, of course, is that the denial of the existence of the Jewish people is at LEAST as common on the anti-Israel side.



Meaning, one of the key goals of the electronic intifada propaganda machine is to make people believe that there were no Jews at all in The State of Israel, that they are ALL 'invaders'. They wish to deny the FACT that there has been an ongoing Jewish presence in the land for a few thousand years. Judaism predates Christianity by a couple thousand years. Christianity predates Islam by about 6-700 years.

/end thread


----------



## teddyearp (May 30, 2017)

louie888 said:


> I thought this thread was over with none of you able to answer a very basic question based on the known FACTS.
> 
> *1) Europeans moved to Palestine in just the last century.
> 
> ...


Let me attempt to take the blinders off your eyes.

In the last century, many Jews moved to the area now known as the State of Israel from parts of Europe.
There were Christians and Muslims living there at that time. See, I admit that those are fact, but let me continue:
*Many Jews also moved to the State of Israel in the last century from places other than Europe, for example, all the Jews kicked out of Russia, Iran, Iraq, etc.*
*There was a constant Jewish presence in the area now know as the State of Israel for a few thousand years. They never left, nor 'converted'.*
*Judaism predates both Christianity and Islam.*
Are those facts or not, in your twisted world view?


----------



## Roudy (May 30, 2017)

teddyearp said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Now the facts on film.
> ...


It won't stop him from posting it another thousand times at least.  Because that's all the antisemitic propagandist has...nothing.  What he doesn't have is a shred of self respect or intellectual honesty.  Typical.


----------



## Roudy (May 30, 2017)

louie888 said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


Monte switches to his sock in the bold font in order to avoid further humiliation.  Ya gotta love it! It's the equivalent of waving the white flag of surrender.


----------



## Roudy (May 30, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


As usual...Monte is full of shit!

And now the inconvenient truth:

http://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF

The Ottoman census figures of 1905 reveal a total of 32,400 Ottoman nationals in Jerusalem: 13,400 Jews, 11,000 Muslims, and 8,000 Christians.49 However, these numbers do not reflect those with foreign nationality living in the city which more than likely would raise the numbers ofJewsandChristians.50 Jewishsourcesforthisyearcontendamuchhighernumber, including one estimating 50,000 Jews in a total population of 75,000.51 The Ottoman sources for 1914 for the entire Qada' of Jerusalem, give the number of Jewish citizens to be 18,190.52 The historian Yehoshua Ben-Arieh has examined innumerable sources on the demography of the city at this time and concludes that:

In 1917, Colonel Zaki Bey, head of the Jerusalem Wheat Syndicate, reported to Jamal Pasha that Jerusalem had 31,147 Jews in an overall population of 53,410. These figures were based on birth certificates and police records; their accuracy is proven by the first compre- hensive census in Jerusalem, made by the British in 1922. This census showed a general population of 62,000, including 34,300 Jews.

Statistics that record the residential area of the population in the different parts of the city were not taken at this period. However, it is known that at the beginning of the British Mandate, the area of the New City was four times greater than that of the Old City.54 Residents of the New City at the end of Ottoman rule, according to Ben-Ariehs estimates, were as follows: 2,000-2,400 Muslims, around 15% of the estimated 12,000 Muslim Jerusalemite girls s55, and 29,000 of the total 45,000 Jews.56 Christians constituted 15% of the population in the New City (or approximately 5- 6,000 people).57 However, the city continued to grow as a residential area for Muslims, Christians and Jews witnessed by the 1922 Census where 30.3% of the Muslims were living outside of the walls.

...We do know, however, that there were Jewish and Arab residents outside the walls because the Palestine Exploration Fund Quarterly reported in 1881, that of 2,500 residents living outside the walls, 1,510 of them were Jews.

*And now for the kicker, so called "natives" had less schools than Jews or Christians!  When in hole, stop digging Monte:*

Table 1 Number of students in Jerusalem schools in 1882 by type of school and by gender of students

Christian schools

926 Girls

861 Boys

1,787 Total

Christian schools for Jewish students

N/A

N/A

138 Total

Jewish schools

160 Girls

1,547 Boys

1,707 Total

Muslim schools

0 Girls

360 Boys

360 Total

Total Number of Students

1,086 Girls

2,768 Boys

3,992 Total


----------



## Roudy (May 30, 2017)

Thank you, thank you...<bowing>.


----------



## montelatici (May 31, 2017)

After Ruddy's fantasy, the facts:

From the Ottoman census held between 1844-1850.  The Kudus Special District had 3,963 Jew females and 4,117 Jew males .  The Kudus Special District was a large part of Palestine, minus the districts of Nablus and Acre, and included Jerusalem. Christians numbered in the tens of thousands and Muslims almost 200,000.





Feel free to download at:

OTTOMAN POPULATION, 1830-1914: Demographic and Social Characteristics, By KEMAL H. KARPAT


The chart is on page 148.


----------



## Roudy (May 31, 2017)

I posted actual Ottoman tax records which counted the number of tax payers and their ethnicity, detailed city by city, and this idiot posts yet another meaningless irrelvant chart of the entire region including all the other middle eastern countries. I bet if you actually bothered to go through this mutilated document,you will find many instances that his claims are destroyed.

What a friggin' pathetic loser.  This is all he can come up with.


----------



## Humanity (May 31, 2017)

Roudy said:


> I posted actual Ottoman tax records which counted the number of tax payers and their ethnicity, detailed city by city, and this idiot posts yet another meaningless irrelvant chart of the entire region including all the other middle eastern countries. I bet if you actually bothered to go through this mutilated document,you will find many instances that his claims are destroyed.
> 
> What a friggin' pathetic loser.  This is all he can come up with.



Tax records? TAX RECORDS??

You do realise that some countries, even today, have less than 25% actually paying ANY tax!! 

Just sayin'


----------



## Roudy (May 31, 2017)

Humanity said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > I posted actual Ottoman tax records which counted the number of tax payers and their ethnicity, detailed city by city, and this idiot posts yet another meaningless irrelvant chart of the entire region including all the other middle eastern countries. I bet if you actually bothered to go through this mutilated document,you will find many instances that his claims are destroyed.
> ...


Which is why there is evidence of even more Jews and Christians than recorded as tax payers.  Your answer doesn't negate the recorded tax payers, in fact it bolsters and amplifies it.  

They even have details of the number schools in individual cities such as Jerusalem, and the again the Jewish schools were more than the Muslims and Christians.


----------



## montelatici (May 31, 2017)

Roudy said:


> I posted actual Ottoman tax records which counted the number of tax payers and their ethnicity, detailed city by city, and this idiot posts yet another meaningless irrelvant chart of the entire region including all the other middle eastern countries. I bet if you actually bothered to go through this mutilated document,you will find many instances that his claims are destroyed.
> 
> What a friggin' pathetic loser.  This is all he can come up with.



You posted fantasy, I posted facts. You are all over the place and never provide the source documentation.  I provided the census data, that's the source data, not reports from third parties of "tax records" . 

I make no claims at all, I just post the source material. The facts are in the source material. You just continue to make a fool of yourself, pushing Hasbara nonsense.

Just like Trump, you have the alternative facts, punk.


----------



## rylah (May 31, 2017)

montelatici said:


> After Ruddy's fantasy, the facts:
> 
> From the Ottoman census held between 1844-1850.  The Kudus Special District had 3,963 Jew females and 4,117 Jew males .  The Kudus Special District was a large part of Palestine, minus the districts of Nablus and Acre, and included Jerusalem. Christians numbered in the tens of thousands and Muslims almost 200,000.
> 
> ...



Still think pushing that "document" after You've been caught photosopping will get through...especially after You've admitted to 'aligning' it??

 And You've been spotted editing Jews out of documents just 2 weeks earlier AGAIN:
post #308

Nice try Monte, anyone can upload to that site.


----------



## montelatici (May 31, 2017)

I have provided the link to the document, download it and look at page 148 and 149.  The Academia.EDU site holds source documents and is used by scholars.   

Nice try, but the deflection wont work.

You are a liar, basically.


----------



## rylah (May 31, 2017)

montelatici said:


> I have provided the link to the document, download it and look at page 148 and 149.  The Academia.EDU site holds source documents and is used by scholars.
> 
> Nice try, but the deflection wont work.
> 
> You are a liar, basically.



No You didn't, all You provided was a link to a site ANYONE can upload to. The name of the site doesn't change it.

Ah and You of course were caught "aligning" those documents, AND admitted to it :
_
post #28-
*" I aligned the left and right pages correctly as the single scan had them unaligned. Another lying Zionist complained about it and I aligned them, you lying Zionist scum."*_

Then You did it again, erased the Jews from another document as presented in my previous post.

*I'm just wondering, how much more have You "aligned" and presented as original?*


----------



## montelatici (May 31, 2017)

Nothing was erased, the adjoining pages were aligned as they should be.  The link is there, you can read the scanned census document and align the rows yourself.  You are atypical Hasbara troll. The facts are the facts you lying piece of crap.


----------



## teddyearp (May 31, 2017)

rylah said:


> And You've been spotted editing Jews out of documents just 2 weeks earlier AGAIN:
> post #308



Wow, thank you rylah. I had been hearing of monti editing and photoshopping his 'honest', 'truthfull', 'factual' 'source' documents that he/she claims trumps all others, but you have now shown the board beyond a shadow of a doubt here in this linked post that he is as evil a liar as I have known in my heart.

And what's funny is that he/she did it to him/her self. For the whole world to see.


----------



## teddyearp (May 31, 2017)

montelatici said:


> You are a liar, basically.


Yes you are, and not basically, but proven beyond a shadow of a doubt by your own admission(s).


----------



## rylah (May 31, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Nothing was erased, the adjoining pages were aligned as they should be.  The link is there, you can read the scanned census document and align the rows yourself.  You are atypical Hasbara troll. The facts are the facts you lying piece of crap.



You come back again with Your straightforward lies...
when just a week ago You've tried to cut Jews out of a document:
post #308

Montelatici said:
"Yes, Jerusalem should be 100% Christian. We have the power, why should we allow non-believers to have any authority in Jerusalem? Why do we need to be fair or accommodating? Throw out the troublemakers. Deus Vult." 

But then again manipulation and hatred is ALL YOU HAVE Monte.


----------



## teddyearp (May 31, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Nothing was erased, the adjoining pages were aligned as they should be.



Aligned by you to fit your narrative. Your cover is blown.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 31, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Nothing was erased, the adjoining pages were aligned as they should be.  The link is there, you can read the scanned census document and align the rows yourself.  You are atypical Hasbara troll. The facts are the facts you lying piece of crap.


Indeed, you can show where people are lying with actual documents then tomorrow they come back with the same lie.


----------



## montelatici (May 31, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Nothing was erased, the adjoining pages were aligned as they should be.  The link is there, you can read the scanned census document and align the rows yourself.  You are atypical Hasbara troll. The facts are the facts you lying piece of crap.
> ...



Yes, a Christian Jerusalem would certainly be better.


----------



## montelatici (May 31, 2017)

teddyearp said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Nothing was erased, the adjoining pages were aligned as they should be.
> ...



Aligned to show the rows of two adjoining pages you idiot.  The link to the document is provided.  But you are using the Hasbara technique that you are trained to use.  Deny the facts.


----------



## theliq (May 31, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


CHRISTIANS AGAIN TRYING TO EXTERMINATE JEWISH PEOPLE.....Thank God they managed to Survive..steve


----------



## theliq (May 31, 2017)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Of course.  Wiki, the Hasbara tool, must be accurate. LOL
> ...


What Crap


----------



## rylah (Jun 1, 2017)

Best argument of the day ^^^


----------



## Hollie (Jun 1, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



A Christian Jerusalem colonized by Christian supremacists (as opposed to Islamist supremacists), would not be better.


----------



## louie888 (Jun 1, 2017)

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...


And how well has European Jewish supremacists' presence in Palestine boded for peace?


----------



## Hollie (Jun 1, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



You haven't memorized your koranology lessons or understood contingent history. Jewish people were encouraged to immigrate to the area subject to the mandate. That has nothing to do with your typically ignorant claims of Jewish supremacists. As usual, you're simply and mindlessly plagiarizing my comments without any understanding of the core argument. 

As you know, your politico-religious ideology which was invented by an Arab warlord maintains the concept of _waqf_, meaning that any lands conquered and colonized by muhammedans becomes muhammedan lands in perpetuity. This is delineated in the Hamas charter wherein they explicitly reference the entirety of the geographic area of Pal'istan as an Islamist waqf. 

You should know at this point that the kuffar has a much greater knowledge of islamism and Islamist fascism than you possess. 

As with so many things, you're inept.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 1, 2017)

Hollie said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...





Hollie said:


> Jewish people were encouraged to immigrate to the area subject to the mandate.


Indeed, Britain and the Zionists had mutual colonial interests in Palestine. That did not make it legal.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 1, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...



Indeed, the Turkish and Arab colonists also had self-serving interests in the area of your invented "country of Pal'istan". 

Indeed, as an Islamist, you simply presume an entitlement to conquest and colonization.


----------



## louie888 (Jun 1, 2017)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


Indeed, the European Jewish colonists had self-serving interests in the area of Palestine.

Indeed, as a Jew, you simply presume an entitlement to conquest and colonization.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 1, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Such a goofy plagiarist.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 1, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


The Turks kicked out the Palestinians out and moved their own people in?

Link?


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## Hollie (Jun 2, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


The Turks were invited in after conquest and colonization by Arabs-Moslems and European Christian crusaders?


Link?


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 2, 2017)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...


That is not what I said.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 2, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Nice duck™


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 2, 2017)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


Duck what? That is not what I said.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 2, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Nice dodge™


----------



## montelatici (Jun 13, 2017)

When Palestinian Martyrs were Christians.  Until late into the fourth century, when Christianity became the state religion of Rome, Palestinians (as were Christians throughout the Empire) were often executed by the authorities for practicing their Christian faith.  

Eusebio of Caesarea, born in Caesarea Maritima, Palestine wrote about these Christian Palestinian martyrs in his work "_De martyribus Palestinae" _(Palestinian Martyrs) written in the 4th century.  Kind of puts the Zionist propaganda in perspective.


Martiri palestinesi nell’Occidente latino. I casi della Passio Theodosiae virginis (BHL 8090) e della Passio Romani monachi (BHL 7298)


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## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 13, 2017)

montelatici said:


> When Palestinian Martyrs were Christians.  Until late into the fourth century, when Christianity became the state religion of Rome, Palestinians (as were Christians throughout the Empire) were often executed by the authorities for practicing their Christian faith.
> 
> Eusebio of Caesarea, born in Caesarea Maritima, Palestine wrote about these Christian Palestinian martyrs in his work "_De martyribus Palestinae" _(Palestinian Martyrs) written in the 4th century.  Kind of puts the Zionist propaganda in perspective.
> 
> ...



Besides the fact that this is in Latin so we can't read it, what does this have to do with the price of tea in China?  What point are you trying to make?


----------



## louie888 (Jun 13, 2017)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Besides the fact that this is in Latin so we can't read it, what does this have to do with the price of tea in China?  What point are you trying to make?


How dumb are you *ForeverDumb436?*

The point cannot be more obvious. If you can't reply to your own question, then you are either a zionist shill or have been brainwashed so heavily since childhood, that any further posts from you are rendered useless.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 13, 2017)

montelatici said:


> When Palestinian Martyrs were Christians.  Until late into the fourth century, when Christianity became the state religion of Rome, Palestinians (as were Christians throughout the Empire) were often executed by the authorities for practicing their Christian faith.
> 
> Eusebio of Caesarea, born in Caesarea Maritima, Palestine wrote about these Christian Palestinian martyrs in his work "_De martyribus Palestinae" _(Palestinian Martyrs) written in the 4th century.  Kind of puts the Zionist propaganda in perspective.
> 
> ...



No. It does nothing of the kind. 

Actually it kind of puts your pompous blathering into perspective. 

What you did achieve was to identify that a largely illiterate, uneducated and superstitious population can be manipulated. Historically, totalitarian ideologies and especially religious totalitarian ideologies have worked to cohere large numbers of people to effect a compliant population, focused on the aims and goals of those at the top of the pyramid. With a longer term view, we see the invention of Islamism and how an uneducated, superstitious tribal population can be convinced of almost anything. Interestingly, that uneducated, superstitious tribal population / mentality still exists in the Islamic Middle East today. The last century has seen the rise and fall of many totalitarian / authoritarian regimes, and many (Islamist ideology) still remain. We've seen dystopian nightmares from Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, al Qaeda, ISIS, and Hamas, Fatah and so many second tier Islamist wannabes. Today we have religious fascism in such places as Iran, a very many failed or failing states in the Middle East and a retreat to Islamic fascism in the Philippines.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 13, 2017)

The Zionists believe that there were no Palestinians before 1967.  Since we now know that there were Palestinian martyrs before the fourth century from reading manuscripts discussing these Palestinians how about more recently, during Ottoman rule.  Well, there was a manual for Palestinian Arabic written in 1909.  If there was a Palestinian Arabic, isn't it absurd to think there were no Palestinians to speak the language?


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## Hollie (Jun 13, 2017)

montelatici said:


> The Zionists believe that there were no Palestinians before 1967.  Since we now know that there were Palestinian martyrs before the fourth century from reading manuscripts discussing these Palestinians how about more recently, during Ottoman rule.  Well, there was a manual for Palestinian Arabic written in 1909.  If there was a Palestinian Arabic, isn't it absurd to think there were no Palestinians to speak the language?
> 
> View attachment 132845



Isn't it absurd to cut and down paste the same image that does nothing to support your claim of a separate and distinct arabic?


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## montelatici (Jun 13, 2017)

Oh dear, now we find that the Ottomans had a Palestine postal district.  And Jerusalem was in Ottoman Palestine.  The Zionists are going to have to regroup.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 13, 2017)

You should also re-post the "Palestine passport" you and others tried to fraudulently represent as something other than what it was: a British issued passport. 

Your frauds are hoot.


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## Ria_Longhorn (Jun 13, 2017)

montelatici said:


> When Palestinian Martyrs were Christians.  Until late into the fourth century, when Christianity became the state religion of Rome, Palestinians (as were Christians throughout the Empire) were often executed by the authorities for practicing their Christian faith.
> 
> Eusebio of Caesarea, born in Caesarea Maritima, Palestine wrote about these Christian Palestinian martyrs in his work "_De martyribus Palestinae" _(Palestinian Martyrs) written in the 4th century.  Kind of puts the Zionist propaganda in perspective.
> 
> ...



De Martyribus Palestinae, translates as, The Palestine Martyrs, and not as the "Palestinian" Martyrs as you erroneously state.   Palestine translates as Palestinae in Latin.  Eusebio does not mention any "Palestinians" in his work.


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## montelatici (Jun 13, 2017)

No, you are using Google translate and it is incorrect. Eusebio, of course, mentions Palestinians in his work.  He was Palestinian.


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## montelatici (Jun 13, 2017)

More to the point Palestinus is Palestian singular in Latin and Palestinae is plural for Palestinian in latin. You people are an ignorant bunch.  

The -*ae* suffix is used for the *plural* of many non-naturalized, specialist, or unfamiliar nouns ending in -a (see -a1) derived from *Latin* or Greek: antennae is the *plural* of antenna; larvae of larva; scapulae of scapula, a shoulder-blade; pupae of pupa, a chrysalis.


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## Ria_Longhorn (Jun 13, 2017)

montelatici said:


> No, you are using Google translate and it is incorrect. Eusebio, of course, mentions Palestinians in his work.  He was Palestinian.



Eusebius of Caesarea: The History of the Martyrs in Palestine (1861).  Translated by William Cureton.


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## montelatici (Jun 13, 2017)

_De martyribus Palestinae _is the name of the work and Palestinae is the plural of Palestinus.  But keep making a fool of yourself.


----------



## Ria_Longhorn (Jun 13, 2017)

montelatici said:


> _De martyribus Palestinae _is the name of the work and Palestinae is the plural of Palestinus.  But keep making a fool of yourself.



Eusebius of Caesarea: The History of the Martyrs in Palestine (1861).  Translated by William Cureton.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 13, 2017)

Ria_Longhorn said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > _De martyribus Palestinae _is the name of the work and Palestinae is the plural of Palestinus.  But keep making a fool of yourself.
> ...



Why do you insist on demonstrating your ignorance.  Even with the incorrect translation, the Martyrs in Palestine would be known as Palestinians.  They would not be known as Martians.


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## montelatici (Jun 13, 2017)

Palestinese 
aggettivo

Palaestinus, plurale Palestinae


----------



## Ria_Longhorn (Jun 13, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Palestinese
> aggettivo
> 
> Palaestinus, plurale Palestinae



Eusebius of Caesarea: The History of the Martyrs in Palestine (1861).  Translated by William Cureton.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 13, 2017)

Well, if you want to believe that Palestinians don't exist, that is your problem.  The Martyrs in Palestine were logically, Palestinians.


----------



## louie888 (Jun 14, 2017)

Hollie said:


> ...Actually it kind of puts your pompous blathering into perspective.


So, to put your pompous blathering into perspective....

What you did achieve was to identify that a largely illiterate, uneducated and superstitious population can be manipulated. Historically, totalitarian ideologies and especially religious totalitarian ideologies have worked to cohere large numbers of people to effect a compliant population, focused on the aims and goals of those at the top of the pyramid. With a longer term view, we see the invention of Judaism and how an uneducated, superstitious tribal population can be convinced of almost anything. Interestingly, that uneducated, superstitious tribal population / mentality still exists in the "jewish"  Middle East today. The last century has seen the rise and fall of many totalitarian / authoritarian regimes, and many (zionist ideology) still remain. We've seen dystopian nightmares from Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, al Qaeda, ISIS, and chabad/lubavitch and likud. Today we have religious fascism in such places as israel and a retreat to jewish fascism.

And since you again brought up Hamas and Fatah, I must, yet again remind you thast...


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 14, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > ...Actually it kind of puts your pompous blathering into perspective.
> ...


I have heard it said that Hamas and Fatah are two bald men fighting over a comb.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 14, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...



Actually, hamas and Fatah are two franchises of _Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc _fighting for control of the UNRWA welfare fraud. 

Your description really does cheapen the lives of the dead people caused by the actions of those Islamic terrorist franchises. But, as we know, islamo-dead people are worth their weight in cheap propaganda.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 14, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > ...Actually it kind of puts your pompous blathering into perspective.
> ...



Wow. I see you were waiting in your basement, begging for my attention again. 

What you did achieve was to identify that a largely illiterate, uneducated and superstitious population can be manipulated. Historically, totalitarian ideologies and especially religious totalitarian ideologies have worked to cohere large numbers of people to effect a compliant population, focused on the aims and goals of those at the top of the pyramid. With a longer term view, we see the invention of Islamism and how an uneducated, superstitious tribal population can be convinced of almost anything. Interestingly, that uneducated, superstitious tribal population / mentality still exists in the Islamic Middle East today. The last century has seen the rise and fall of many totalitarian / authoritarian regimes, and many (Islamist ideology) still remain. We've seen dystopian nightmares from Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, al Qaeda, ISIS, and Hamas, Fatah and so many second tier Islamist wannabes. Today we have religious fascism in such places as Iran, a very many failed or failing states in the Middle East and a retreat to Islamic fascism in the Philippines.


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 14, 2017)

louie888 said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > Besides the fact that this is in Latin so we can't read it, what does this have to do with the price of tea in China?  What point are you trying to make?
> ...



No one ever denied that there was a region called Palestine.  Yet the residents themselves never saw themselves as having a national identity.  rylah has posted more recent documents than this Latin one, where the residents called Palestine a part of Southern Syria.  It was only in 1967 (or perhaps 1964 when the PLO was formed) that they suddenly became a People.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 14, 2017)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > ForeverYoung436 said:
> ...


Not so. They became Palestinians in 1924 when all of the other states in the region were formed.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 14, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...



Your invented "country of Pally'land"?


----------



## montelatici (Jun 14, 2017)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > ForeverYoung436 said:
> ...



This Zionist propaganda persists, it is turbocharged cognizant dissonance.  Besides 3-4th century residents of Palaestina Prima calling themselves Palestinians (Palestinae in Latin) in manuscripts, besides Ottoman era Palestinian Arabic Instruction books, besides Ottoman era postal stamps calling the place Palestine, besides correspondence from The Palestinian Delegation in London to the British Colonial Office in 1922 where the Palestinians  call themselves the "people of Palestine" what else can cure the brainwashing.  Probably nothing.

If there were no Palestinian people during the Ottoman period, why would there be a Palestinian Arabic manual written in 1909?  









1916 postmark Palestine (Ottoman era)










From 1922 corrrespondence from the Palestinian Delegation in London, to the British Colonial Office:

_"If to-day *the People of Palestine *assented to any constitution which fell short of giving them full control of their own affairs they would be in the position of agreeing to an instrument of Government which might, and probably would, be used to smother their national life under a flood of alien immigration......................"_
_
https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unis...48a7e5584ee1403485256cd8006c3fbe?OpenDocument_


----------



## Hollie (Jun 14, 2017)

montelatici said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...



Your invented "country of Pal'istan" was actually a land area that included part of what is now Jordan. 

I will require that you cut and paste the photos above at least two dozen more times when accompanied by your shrill whining.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 14, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > The Europeans are focused on a peaceful solution.  The solution can't be equitable as the Jews after the British supported colonization, are now a reality on the ground and the Palestinians have to accept that Jews now represent a substantial presence and they are going nowhere, however, the dynamic that Jews must rule over non-Jews is not a solution.
> ...



Here is the answer:


----------



## Hollie (Jun 14, 2017)

Here is the answer.


----------



## rylah (Jun 15, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



So  Christians prefer Arab Muslim colonialism over the culture of the original Christians? They prefer Arabic over Hebrew-Aramaic?

I don't buy it. Are they suffering from the Stokholm syndrome?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 15, 2017)

Hollie said:


> Here is the answer.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 15, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



The language of Roman/Byzantine Palestine was Greek.  Once the Romans were no longer the rulers it was advantageous to speak and write the language of the new rulers which, in fact, was closer to the language of their ancestors, Aramaic.  And, the Palestinian Christians of today, like the Palestinian Muslims,probably,  cprefer their traditional culture over the central European culture brought by the European colonists.


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 15, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



While Hebrew, Aramaic and Arabic are all Semitic languages (Shalom Aleichem sounds like Salaam Aleikum), nevertheless Aramaic and Hebrew share the same letters and characters, which isn't the case with Arabic. 

As for culture, more than half the population of Israel now is Mizrahi.  Falafel, hummus and tahini are eaten by more Israelis than gefilte fish and kugel.  Besides, Arab culture and dress and language is predominant in 22 countries.  Israel is a blend of Middle Eastern and European culture, and there's nothing wrong with that.  It's a result of being in close proximity with the Israelis that the West Bank Palestinians and Jordanians have become more Westernized.  That's not a bad thing, IMO.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 15, 2017)

So, explain to Rylah that it is not Stockholm syndrome. Christian Palestinians and Muslims Palestinians are a people with their own culture and their own version of Arabic.


----------



## Shusha (Jun 15, 2017)

And maybe someone can explain to monte (and Eloy, Challenger, Tinmore, etc) that Jews are a people with their own culture and their own language.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 15, 2017)

Shusha said:


> And maybe someone can explain to monte (and Eloy, Challenger, Tinmore, etc) that Jews are a people with their own culture and their own language.



No, there is hardly any cultural similarity between Mizrahi, Ethiopian, Sephardic (Spanish) Jews, Ashkenazi Jews, Italian Jews etc. and they speak different languages, unless they are in Israel.  Some (those outside Israel)  may understand Hebrew, like some Roman Catholics and Greek Orthodox speak Latin and Greek for religious purposes.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 15, 2017)

St. George was a Palestinian, and has been the patron saint of Palestine since the end of the 4th century.  The Feast of Saint George is celebrated by Palestinian Christians and some Muslims.  And the Zionist propagandists keep repeating that the Palestinians either don't exist or didn't exist until invented in 1967.  

"Some Palestinian Muslims, especially those from al-Khadr, also follow the practices.

"It's not only the Christians that appreciate him, the Muslims also feel the power and the miracles of St George," says Father Ananias.

"When the church was built [in the Byzantine period] the neighbours were Christians. I don't know when the local people became Muslims, but under the Turkish [Ottomans] they protected the monastery and remained very close."

An old woman wearing a traditional embroidered dress and the Islamic veil tells me: "We all believe in al-Khadr, even my husband. I made a vow to light a candle in al-Khadr church."

Why St George is a Palestinian hero - BBC News


----------



## rylah (Jun 15, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > And maybe someone can explain to monte (and Eloy, Challenger, Tinmore, etc) that Jews are a people with their own culture and their own language.
> ...



Actually there's a striking similarity and preservation of the Jewish culture among the furthest diaspora communities.
Jews from Yemen came with the same locks on the side as Jews from Europe.










The language those communities used, even when using foreign words, were written using the Hebrew alphabet. They didn't just speak European languages, but Yiddish full of Hebrew words, again written using Hebrew letters. So was Judeo-Arabic and so was initially Ladino or Judeo-Spanish written using the same Hebrew alphabet.

Here's  Yiddish hand writing:





And a manuscript from Yemen:





We could go further and look at how those 'Hebrized' laugh: ) local languages were used in newspapers. Or how songs Jews wrote along the history all had similar motives and structure. 

Funny how You claim Palestinians preferred Greek, then Arabic...but seemed to 'forget' about the native languages, while Jews in the diaspora kept attachment to Hebrew.

Are we turning another thread about Palestinian identity into a thread about Jews?


----------



## montelatici (Jun 15, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



You are claiming that an Italian that practices Judaism is closer culturally to an Eastern European that practices Judaism than to fellow Italians.  That is simply untrue.  The only thing they have in common is their religion.  Just like an Irish Catholic and an Italian Catholic. 

But go on with your propaganda.


----------



## rylah (Jun 15, 2017)

montelatici said:


> St. George was a Palestinian, and has been the patron saint of Palestine since the end of the 4th century.  The Feast of Saint George is celebrated by Palestinian Christians and some Muslims.  And the Zionist propagandists keep repeating that the Palestinians either don't exist or didn't exist until invented in 1967.
> 
> "Some Palestinian Muslims, especially those from al-Khadr, also follow the practices.
> 
> ...



Not denying there were Christians or Muslims in the land. but it was SYRIA... You could stump Your feet all You want but the Palestinians themselves declare so.

_"George was born to a Gerontios and Polychronia, a Roman officer and a Greek native of Lydda. Both were Christians from noble families of the Anici and George, Georgios in the original Greek, was raised to follow their faith.  "

St. George - Saints & Angels - Catholic Online_


----------



## montelatici (Jun 15, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > St. George was a Palestinian, and has been the patron saint of Palestine since the end of the 4th century.  The Feast of Saint George is celebrated by Palestinian Christians and some Muslims.  And the Zionist propagandists keep repeating that the Palestinians either don't exist or didn't exist until invented in 1967.
> ...



It was called Palaestina Prima. George grew up in a typical Christian family in the Holy Land in the Third Century AD. His mother was born in Lydda, the Israeli town of Lod.


----------



## rylah (Jun 15, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



Jews in Europe wrote in German/Russian/Spanish using Hebrew letters. Jews in Yemen in Arabic using Hebrew letters, Jews in Morocco wrote using Hebrew as well.

Palestinians preferred Greek, Roman and Arabic


----------



## rylah (Jun 15, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



You really try so hard not to see the evident


----------



## montelatici (Jun 15, 2017)

Quite the opposite, you are spreading propaganda, I present the facts.  The Christianization of Palestine had very little to do with Jews, the majority of the people had long become adherents to Roman religions (paganism) before becoming Christians.


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## rylah (Jun 15, 2017)

And yet Jews have finished writing the Jerusalem Talmud during that time. While the 'Palestinians' were deep into Greek and who knows what...


----------



## rylah (Jun 15, 2017)

montelatici said:


> So, explain to Rylah that it is not Stockholm syndrome. Christian Palestinians and Muslims Palestinians are a people with their own culture and their own version of Arabic.



It's indeed Stockholm syndrome the Palestinians are suffering, especially the Christian minority. But I'm sure Montelatici prefers Sharia law for the Palestinian Christians.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 16, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > So, explain to Rylah that it is not Stockholm syndrome. Christian Palestinians and Muslims Palestinians are a people with their own culture and their own version of Arabic.
> ...



Islamist sharia and Islamic fascism has worked out so well for Christians across the Islamic Middle East.


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## Ria_Longhorn (Jun 26, 2017)

montelatici said:


> European Jews are foreign to the Muslims and Christians of Palestine. Palestinian Christians are the first Christians, and they are Middle Eastern.



Yet neither Palestine nor Palestinians appear in the Christians' sacred book, The New Testament -- but Judaea, Jews and Israel does:
Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, saying, where is he that is born king of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him." -- Matthew 2:1,2

"That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel." -- Ephesians 2:12
That's right, folks, Jesus never met a "Palestinian."


----------



## Ria_Longhorn (Jun 26, 2017)

montelatici said:


> No, you are using Google translate and it is incorrect. Eusebio, of course, mentions Palestinians in his work.  He was Palestinian.



Wrong.  Eusebius does not mention any "Palestinians" in his work, History of The Martyrs In Palestine -- but he does mention Jews:
"There is a large city in the land of Palestine, teeming with population, of which all the inhabitants were Jews.  It is called in the Aramaic tongue Lud, and in the Greek it is called Diocaesarea."


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 26, 2017)

Ria_Longhorn said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > European Jews are foreign to the Muslims and Christians of Palestine. Palestinian Christians are the first Christians, and they are Middle Eastern.
> ...


 
^^^
This.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 26, 2017)

Ria_Longhorn said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > No, you are using Google translate and it is incorrect. Eusebio, of course, mentions Palestinians in his work.  He was Palestinian.
> ...



Wrong. The title is "_De martyribus Palestinae".  _The "ae" suffix denotes the plural in Latin.  The correct translation is "Palestinian Martyrs" or in modern Latin languages, like Italian "I martiri palestinesi"
"los mártires palestinos" where the adjective's tense has to correspond to the noun.  In any case the martyrs in Palestine would still be palestinians.

The work mentions Palestinians  (martyrs) numerous times.


----------



## rylah (Jun 26, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Ria_Longhorn said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



The attempt to present Greco-Roman culture and people as 'Palestinian', only shows what 'Palestinian' means.

One could just go straight to the semitic root of the word 'Plesti',it means 'INVADER'. 'Palestinian'  simply means that, and no Greco-Roman interpretation will change that.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 26, 2017)

The Palestinian martyrs were simply native people that had converted to Christianity, many previously practiced Judaism, Samaritanism, Paganism etc.  They invaded no one. 

"Peleset" is an Egyptian term for the people, it does not mean invader.


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 26, 2017)

montelatici said:


> The Palestinian martyrs were simply native people that had converted to Christianity, many previously practiced Judaism, Samaritanism, Paganism etc.  They invaded no one.
> 
> "Peleset" is an Egyptian term for the people, it does not mean invader.



You don't know Hebrew or the "shoroshim" (roots) of Hebrew words, so how can you say what any Hebrew word does or does not mean?  The Philistines were non-Semitic invaders from the island of Crete (Caphtor in the Bible).  They were also the fiercest enemies of the Children of Israel.


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## montelatici (Jun 26, 2017)

I don't need to know Hebrew to know what the ancient Egyptians called them. The term "Peleset" is transliterated from hieroglyphs as P-r-s-t.


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## rylah (Jun 26, 2017)

montelatici said:


> The Palestinian martyrs were simply native people that had converted to Christianity, many previously practiced Judaism, Samaritanism, Paganism etc.  They invaded no one.
> 
> "Peleset" is an Egyptian term for the people, it does not mean invader.


No the Egyptian root is -p-r-s-t, and they identified them as the invading _Sea people_. The name 'Palestine' or 'Filastine' comes from the semitic root P(h) - L - S(h), which means 'invade'. The Assyrians called them the same.

Native? You mean like Greco-Roman native?
Samaritans and Jews are native and indigenous, the Judean Christians, the original ones were messianic Jews, a sect of Jews who circumcised, put Tefilin and adhered to Jewish laws, today they're Jews for Jesus.


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## montelatici (Jun 26, 2017)

The Samaritans and Jews and those that had already converted to Paganism, converted to Christianity. By 325 all followed the Nicene Creed.


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## rylah (Jun 26, 2017)

montelatici said:


> The Samaritans and Jews and those that had already converted to Paganism, converted to Christianity. By 325 all followed the Nicene Creed.





I guess all those Jews and Samaritans who revolted against the Byzantine rule were somehow 'resurrected' from the dead.

At that time Jews created a lunar calendar, wrote the Jerusalem Talmud and even had an argument with the Babylonian diaspora over established schools of law in the diaspora and in the land.


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## Shusha (Jun 26, 2017)

montelatici said:


> The Samaritans and Jews and those that had already converted to Paganism, converted to Christianity. By 325 all followed the Nicene Creed.



And by supporting this, you are following a moral reasoning which permits invasion, colonization and conversion.  So you have absolutely no right to complain about the "invasion, colonization and conversion" BACK to a Jewish State.


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## louie888 (Jun 26, 2017)

See? There you go again? *BACK to a Jewish State?*

What evidence is there that there were ever any more than a small pocket of Jews and The Roman exile of the biblical Jews... fact or yet another lie?


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## Shusha (Jun 27, 2017)

louie888 said:


> What evidence is there.....



Meh.  Don't need any.  Monte's assertion is that it morally acceptable to invade, colonize and convert.  So?


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## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 27, 2017)

louie888 said:


> See? There you go again? *BACK to a Jewish State?*
> 
> What evidence is there that there were ever any more than a small pocket of Jews and The Roman exile of the biblical Jews... fact or yet another lie?



Didn't you read Xelor's posts in that thread?  His proofs and evidence from historians?


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## montelatici (Jun 27, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > The Samaritans and Jews and those that had already converted to Paganism, converted to Christianity. By 325 all followed the Nicene Creed.
> ...



You mean the Jews who were recruited outside of Palestine who allied themselves with the Persians?  Jerusalem was off-limits to non-Christians under Roman/Byzantine rule.  Somehow the facts always undercut the Zionist propaganda.  The Jews, Samaritans and Pagans that remained in Palestine converted to Christianity.


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## montelatici (Jun 27, 2017)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > See? There you go again? *BACK to a Jewish State?*
> ...



There was no proof no evidence and they were not historians.  They were propagandists.


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## montelatici (Jun 27, 2017)

Shusha said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > What evidence is there.....
> ...



Who says it was morally acceptable?  It was acceptable under international law at the time, not necessarily moral.  Although most would say that converting the Jews and Samaritans to Christianity (those few that had not already converted willingly) was a good thing.

After gaining land by conquest became illegal under international law  it became both illegal and immoral.  It might seem hypocritical, but that what happens when laws are made.  Italy was sanctioned and eventually kicked out of the LoN colonizing Ethiopia though France, Britain, the U.S., Belgium, Spain, Portugal etc. all maintained colonies.


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## montelatici (Jun 27, 2017)

"Coming back to the Bedouins, they are as ancient as the land itself and can trace their movement in the region over generations and even back to biblical times, as they are often referenced in, or even central to, narratives of biblical myth   The indigenous Palestinians are an amalgamation of all the people, civilizations, tribes, and religious groups escaping the persecution of powers that left their imprint on the landscape. However, we must maintain that the original and most ancient inhabitants of Palestine are the Canaanites, while everyone else is a historical passer-by in the land. Today’s Palestinians are not pure Canaanites, for no one can assert a purity of lineage, but at the same time this does not mean that they have no critical and sustained presence on the land to claim the ownership of it. The Bedouins of the Negev are rightfully living on their land, and the Israeli state, through its apartheid laws and policies, can’t alter this fact. For anyone desiring “peace” in the region, the starting point is the setting aside of the biblical text and the theology of dispossession, and the recognition in word and deed of the Palestinians as indigenous people of the land.  Then, and only then, can we have a discussion of what can be done to solve the specific context emerging from the theology of dispossession."

The Indigenous Palestinians | Harvard International Review


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## rylah (Jun 27, 2017)

Arabian nomad tribes are 'indigenous' to Palestine?


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## rylah (Jun 27, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...




Montelatici, do You even understand how off Your time-line is?
You were referring to occasions 300 years apart.
The Jews who took part in recapturing Jerusalem with Persia were from Galilee, where the Jerusalem Talmud was written.

Pay attention:

325 The *Nicene Creed*
359 Hillel the Nasi of Sanhedrin in Galilee establishes the lunisolar calendar for the Jews in the diaspora.
363 Julian orders to rebuild the Temple, abolishes special Jewish taxes and permits Jews to repopulate and build in Jerusalem.
363 Galilee earthquake
438 Eudocia allows Jews to pray at the Temple Mount
450 The Jerusalem Talmud completed in the school of Yohanan bar Nafha in the Galilee.
484 Samaritan Revolt

and only then in 613-614 the Jewish revolt against the Byzantine Empire and the capture of Jerusalem by Persians and Jews of Galilee lead by Benjamin of Tiberius.


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## rylah (Jun 27, 2017)

And I had the doubt that this thread wasn't another attempt to erase Jews from the land and history.


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## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 27, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



Haha, according to monte, Everyone in Palestine had already converted to Christianity and the Nicene Creed by that point in time, while You just showed that there were Jews in the Land long after that.  In fact, there were always Jews living in the Land.


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## montelatici (Jun 27, 2017)

Now the facts, as reported by the Mandatory (Britain) in the first report to the LoN. You people can continue to make things up, but the facts are documented in official source documents.

"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*_See_ Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. *Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews.* In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine."

Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)


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## rylah (Jun 28, 2017)

A mere vague estimation of  the year 1850 by an entity that has been only created in 1920.
We have already discussed this in great detail, Your_* 'handful of Jews'*,_ even according to Palestinians sources, was in the thousands between 7,000-15,000 people.

The narrative of _'rights=numbers'_ is misleading, and works only in favor of the Arab Muslim colonialists and others who managed to weed out the indigenous population. It also conveniently 'forgets' the wars that occurred just 100 years prior to the 1st Zionist immigration.


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## Ria_Longhorn (Jun 28, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Ria_Longhorn said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



Guy, you're still with this nonsense?
Where does Eusebius mention "Palestinians"?

Eusebius of Caesarea: The History of the Martyrs in Palestine (1861).  Translated by William Cureton.


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## Ria_Longhorn (Jun 28, 2017)

montelatici said:


> The Samaritans and Jews and those that had already converted to Paganism, converted to Christianity. By 325 all followed the Nicene Creed.



Even these 4th Century CE Jews from Lud?

"There is a large city in the land of Palestine, teeming with population, of which all the inhabitants were Jews.  It is called in the Aramaic tongue Lud, and in the Greek it is called Diocaesarea."

Eusebius of Caesarea: The History of the Martyrs in Palestine (1861).  Translated by William Cureton.


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## montelatici (Jun 28, 2017)

Palestinesi = Palestinians.  English translation is innaccurate.

*"Martiri palestinesi nell’Occidente latino."*

* Martiri palestinesi nell’Occidente latino. I casi della Passio Theodosiae virginis (BHL 8090) e della Passio Romani monachi (BHL 7298)*


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## montelatici (Jun 28, 2017)

rylah said:


> A mere vague estimation of  the year 1850 by an entity that has been only created in 1920.
> We have already discussed this in great detail, Your_* 'handful of Jews'*,_ even according to Palestinians sources, was in the thousands between 7,000-15,000 people.
> 
> The narrative of _'rights=numbers'_ is misleading, and works only in favor of the Arab Muslim colonialists and others who managed to weed out the indigenous population. It also conveniently 'forgets' the wars that occurred just 100 years prior to the 1st Zionist immigration.



The colonists are the Jews.  They admitted as much. The Muslims and Christians are the native people, get it straight, the Jews came from elsewhere and colonized the place.

*"Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier, Weizmann Tells Actions Committ*

*“Due to the success of our colonization work in Palestine proper, *it is possible that eventually our colonization work will be extended beyond the frontiers of Transjordania. It is true that the Palestine government has not taken a clear stand in regard to its economic policy, but well founded demands have every prospect of being agreed to. A great deal has been achieved during the last months,” Dr. Weizmann said.

The contemplated trip to the United States of Dr. Chaim Weizmann, president of the World Zionist Organization, the continuation of his efforts while in America to extend the Jewish Agency through his negotiations with the Marshall group, the possibilities of extending Jewish colonization work outside of the present Palestine frontiers, including. Transjordania and certain parts of Syria, were the main features around which the deliberations centered."

Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier, Weizmann Tells Actions Committ


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## rylah (Jun 28, 2017)

And now the CONTEXT:

*Agreement Between the King of Hijaz and Khadim al-Haramayn as-Sharifayn, Emir Feisal Ibn al-Hussein al-Hashemi, and the President of the World Zionist Organization, Dr. Chaim Weizmann (January 3, 1919)*


January 3, 1919

His Royal Highness the Emir Feisal, representing and acting on behalf of the Arab Kingdom of Hedjaz, and Dr. Chaim Weizmann, representing and acting on behalf of the Zionist Organisation, mindful of the racial kinship and ancient bonds existing between the Arabs and the Jewish people, and realising that the surest means of working out the consummation of their national aspirations is through the closest possible collaboration in the development of the Arab State and Palestine, and being desirous further of confirming the good understanding which exists between them, have agreed upon the following Articles:

ARTICLE I

The Arab State and Palestine in all their relations and undertakings shall be controlled by the most cordial goodwill and understanding, and to this end Arab and Jewish duly accredited agents shall be established and maintained in the respective territories.

ARTICLE II

Immediately following the completion of the deliberations of the Peace Conference, the definite boundaries between the Arab State and Palestine shall be determined by a Commission to be agreed upon by the parties hereto.

ARTICLE III

In the establishment of the Constitution and Administration of Palestine all such measures shall be adopted as will afford the fullest guarantees for carrying into effect the British Government's Declaration of the 2d of November, 1917.

ARTICLE IV

All necessary measures shall be taken to encourage stimulate immigration of Jews into Palestine on a large scale, and as quickly as possible to settle Jewish immigrants upon the land through closer settlement and intensive cultivation of the soil. In taking such measures the Arab peasant and tenant farmers shall be protected in their rights, and shall be assisted in forwarding their economic development.

ARTICLE V

No regulation nor law shall be made prohibiting or interfering in any way with the free exercise of religion; and further the free exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship without discrimination or preference shall forever be allowed. No religious test shall ever be required for the exercise of civil or political rights.

ARTICLE VI

The Mohammedan Holy Places shall be under Mohammedan control.

ARTICLE VII

The Zionist Organisation proposes to send to Palestine a Commission of experts to make a survey of the economic possibilities of the country, and to report upon the best means for its development. The Zionist Organisation will place the aforementioned Commission at the disposal of the Arab State for the purpose of a survey of the economic possibilities of the Arab State and to report upon the best means for its development. The Zionist Organisation will use its best efforts to assist the Arab State in providing the means for developing the natural resources and economic possibilities thereof.

ARTICLE VIII

The parties hereto agree to act in complete accord and harmony on all matters embraced herein before the Peace Congress.

ARTICLE IX

Any matters of dispute which may arise between the contracting parties shall be referred to the British Government for arbitration. Given under our hand at London, England, the third day of January, one thousand nine hundred and nineteen.

*Chaim Weizmann
Feisal Ibn al-Hussein.*

Islam and Zionism before the Wahhabi Fitnah Spread


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## montelatici (Jun 28, 2017)

rylah said:


> And now the CONTEXT:
> 
> *Agreement Between the King of Hijaz and Khadim al-Haramayn as-Sharifayn, Emir Feisal Ibn al-Hussein al-Hashemi, and the President of the World Zionist Organization, Dr. Chaim Weizmann (January 3, 1919)*
> 
> ...



What does the Kingdom of Hejaz have to do with Palestine? 

The Hashemite Kingdom of Hejaz was established 1915 and was conquered by the Sauds in 1925 and became a part of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.  It was nowhere near Palestine. It would be like Mexico giving Maryland to the Gypsies. LOL


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## montelatici (Jun 28, 2017)

In any case, the European Jews were planning to colonize Palestine long before the Balfour Declaration.  They announced their plans in the New York Times in 1899.

Zionists plan to colonize Palestine in 1899 NY Times




*An article about a Conference of Zionists published on July 20, 1899 in the New York Times depicts how the Conference sought to “colonize Palestine” and discussed the purchasing of land with English Zionists.*
*World Bulletin/News Desk*

An article about a Conference of Zionists published on July 20, 1899 in the New York Times expresses that the Zionists “will colonize Palestine.”

The article explains that the conference discussed a paper from the English Zionist Federation “proposing the re-establishment of Judea as an independent State, suggesting the purchase of the Maccabean sites in Palestine, and the beginning of the work by the establishment of a Jewish colony and a Jewish Agricultural College there.”

It further clarifies that “The site to be purchased comprises about fifty acres, six miles from a station on the railroad between Jappa and Jerusalem, and within sight of the sea and a large stretch of the Palestinian coast.”

It notes that English Zionists have gathered 2,500 dollars in the currency of the period and request that quantity from the American Zionists.

The article also explains that “On motion of Dr. Wise, the Federation voted $100 as the nucleus of the required fund of $2,500, the remainder to be raised by subscriptions from the 125 societies and individuals, both Jews and Gentiles. A general appeal to the public will be made.”

It also conveys that delegates will be elected at the Zionist meeting in Baltimore.






The straightforward and comfortable manner with which the colonization is pursued is indicative how, before having to be concerned with the image of Zionism and public relations, Zionist leaders depicted their movement as a colonial mission during a time in which European nations were colonial powers. "

Zionists plan to colonize Palestine in 1899 NY Times - World Bulletin


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## rylah (Jun 28, 2017)

montelatici said:


> What does the Kingdom of Hejaz have to do with Palestine?



Indeed what did another Arabian King have to do with Palestine, and why do Palestinians still identify as Syrians?

*Faisal I bin Hussein bin Ali al-Hashimi*, (Arabic: فيصل بن الحسين بن علي الهاشمي‎‎, _Fayṣal al-Awwal ibn al-Ḥusayn ibn ‘Alī al-Hāshimī_; 20 May 1885[1][2][5] – 8 September 1933) was King of the Arab Kingdom of Syria or Greater Syria in 1920, and was King of Iraq from 23 August 1921 to 1933. He was a member of the Hashemite dynasty.


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## montelatici (Jun 28, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > What does the Kingdom of Hejaz have to do with Palestine?
> ...



The Hashemite King of the Hejaz had nothing to do with Palestine.  As this documentary from the lat 1800s shows. No Hashemites anywhere.


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## rylah (Jun 28, 2017)

No Hashemites in Palestine in 1896?
Well I have good news for the Jordanian king, the mufti and the Syrians in Palestine.


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## montelatici (Jun 28, 2017)

rylah said:


> No Hashemites in Palestine in 1896?
> Well I have good news for the Jordanian king, the mufti and the Syrians in Palestine.



There are no Syrians in Palestine, there are Palestinians in Palestine. As far as the Muftis, they were the spiritual leaders of the Palestinian Muslims, the Christian Palestinians were led by the Orthodox Patriarch, though the Latin Archbishop had substantial power. You are just making a fool of yourself, you are trying to create an alternative history, which the Zionists were able to do in the past when the internet was not around, now the facts from source documentation are easily retrievable.  You will always lose trying to promulgate the old propaganda.


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## rylah (Jun 28, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > No Hashemites in Palestine in 1896?
> ...



There were not just Syrians, Arabians, Greeks, Italians and many more. But the all identified as Syrians. Indeed the documentation is available:

1 .* We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographic bonds. *

2. The Declaration made by M. Pichon, Minister for Foreig Affairs for France, that France had rights in our country based on the desires and aspirations of the inhabitants has no foundation and we reject all the declarations made in his speech of 29th December 1918, as our wishes and aspirations are only in Arab unity and complete independence.

3. In view of the above we desire that one *district Southern Syria or Palestine* should not be separated from the Independent Arab Syrian Government and to be free from all foreign influence and protection.

4. In accordance with the rule laid down by President Wilson and approved by most of the Great Powers we consider that every promise or treaty concluded in respect of our country and its future as null and void and reject the same.

5. The Government of the country will apply for help to its friend Great Britain in case of need for the improvement and development of the country provided that this will not affect its independence and Arab unity in any way and will keep good relations with the Allied Powers. 78

*The Palestine Conference also decided to send a delegation to Damascus 'to inform Arab patriots there of the decision to call Palestine Southern Syria and unite it with Northern Syria '.79 *

Another delegation of three was named 'as possible representatives to go to Paris'. 80

The decisions of the Conference were presented in writing to the British, French, Italian and Spanish representatives in Jerusalem. It was apparent that the young elements, with the help of Palestinian pressure from outside, prevailed on the Conference. Before adjourning, the Conference agreed to meet again at Nablus three months hence, but failed to elect an executive Committee to the Conference.

First Palestinian Arab Congress

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stop lying


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## montelatici (Jun 28, 2017)

You are the liar.  

"The third congress was held in Haifa in December 1920. The forty-eight delegates elected an executive committee (the Arab Executive), with a permanent secretariat based in Jerusalem; Musa Kazim al-Husayni headed it. The scion of a leading Jerusalem family, he had been removed by the British as mayor after riots in the spring of 1920. The congress and executive committee were dominated by middle-aged men from ranking Muslim and Christian landowning and merchant families, but younger, more radical politicians also participated—those who had returned home from Damascus in July 1920, after the French had overthrown Amir Faisal and established their mandate over Syria. In Palestine, a civil administration was established under Herbert Samuel, a British Zionist. The congress's resolutions *omitted references to unity with Syria,* but maintained firm opposition to Zionism, *insisting that Palestine gain its independence as an Arab state*. The resolutions appealed to the British sense of justice and fair play, in the hope that the pro-Zionist policies could be modified."

Palestinian Arab Congresses - Dictionary definition of Palestinian Arab Congresses | Encyclopedia.com: FREE online dictionary


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 28, 2017)

rylah said:


> Chaim Weizmann
> Feisal Ibn al-Hussein.


Were either of them Palestinian?


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## Hollie (Jun 28, 2017)

Well gee whiz. _The Monty_ has dredged up his entire library of cut and paste articles and YouTube videos. It's interesting see that his attempt at argument consists of a handful of articles that he endlessly cuts and pastes across multiple threads.


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## Hollie (Jun 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Chaim Weizmann
> ...



"Pal'istanian" was never a nationality. 

You still suffer from "_Befuddled Syndrome_" thinking your invented "country of Pally'land" was anything more than a geographic area controlled by the Turk Islamists.


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 28, 2017)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...


It was until the Treaty of Lausanne ceded the territory to Palestine and the Palestinians became citizens of Palestine.


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## Hollie (Jun 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



So.... back to your invented "country of Pally'land"

What a hoot.


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 28, 2017)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


OK, but it was invented by treaty and international law.


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## Indeependent (Jun 28, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


You mean the Treaty that never was.


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## Ria_Longhorn (Jul 10, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Palestinesi = Palestinians.  English translation is innaccurate.
> 
> *"Martiri palestinesi nell’Occidente latino."*
> 
> * Martiri palestinesi nell’Occidente latino. I casi della Passio Theodosiae virginis (BHL 8090) e della Passio Romani monachi (BHL 7298)*



Vecchio, come here (in sotto voce): Eusebius' original work was not even composed in Latin or Italian.  This is the second time I'm explaining it to you.  Didn't you even read your own link?  Eusebius makes no mention of any "Palestinians" in the Martyrs in Palestine, but he does mention Jews in Lud.  Here's Eusebius in his other work, (Praeparatio Evangelica 10.5.), were he writes of "Hebrews who inhabited the country adjacent to Phoenicia, which was itself called Phoenicia in ancient times but afterwards Judaea, and in our time, Palestine."


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## Ria_Longhorn (Jul 10, 2017)

montelatici said:


> "Coming back to the Bedouins, they are as ancient as the land itself and can trace their movement in the region over generations and even back to biblical times, as they are often referenced in, or even central to, narratives of biblical myth   The indigenous Palestinians are an amalgamation of all the people, civilizations, tribes, and religious groups escaping the persecution of powers that left their imprint on the landscape. However, we must maintain that the original and most ancient inhabitants of Palestine are the Canaanites, while everyone else is a historical passer-by in the land. Today’s Palestinians are not pure Canaanites, for no one can assert a purity of lineage, but at the same time this does not mean that they have no critical and sustained presence on the land to claim the ownership of it. The Bedouins of the Negev are rightfully living on their land, and the Israeli state, through its apartheid laws and policies, can’t alter this fact. For anyone desiring “peace” in the region, the starting point is the setting aside of the biblical text and the theology of dispossession, and the recognition in word and deed of the Palestinians as indigenous people of the land.  Then, and only then, can we have a discussion of what can be done to solve the specific context emerging from the theology of dispossession."
> 
> The Indigenous Palestinians | Harvard International Review



Vecchio, there are genetic studies that show that the Bedouins & the "indigenous Palestinians" come from the Arabian Peninsula.


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## P F Tinmore (Jul 10, 2017)

Ria_Longhorn said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > "Coming back to the Bedouins, they are as ancient as the land itself and can trace their movement in the region over generations and even back to biblical times, as they are often referenced in, or even central to, narratives of biblical myth   The indigenous Palestinians are an amalgamation of all the people, civilizations, tribes, and religious groups escaping the persecution of powers that left their imprint on the landscape. However, we must maintain that the original and most ancient inhabitants of Palestine are the Canaanites, while everyone else is a historical passer-by in the land. Today’s Palestinians are not pure Canaanites, for no one can assert a purity of lineage, but at the same time this does not mean that they have no critical and sustained presence on the land to claim the ownership of it. The Bedouins of the Negev are rightfully living on their land, and the Israeli state, through its apartheid laws and policies, can’t alter this fact. For anyone desiring “peace” in the region, the starting point is the setting aside of the biblical text and the theology of dispossession, and the recognition in word and deed of the Palestinians as indigenous people of the land.  Then, and only then, can we have a discussion of what can be done to solve the specific context emerging from the theology of dispossession."
> ...


Well, that warrants a big* so what.*


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## P F Tinmore (Jul 10, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


It was the Treaty of Sevres that was never ratified. It was followed by the Treaty of Lausanne that was ratified.

You need to keep up.


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## Hollie (Jul 10, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



The treaty of Lausanne doesn't make a single reference to your invented "country of Pally'land. 

Your invention of "hysterical" events is a hoot.


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## P F Tinmore (Jul 10, 2017)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


It didn't mention *any* of the new states.

You are just shoveling Israeli shit again.


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## Hollie (Jul 10, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Ahh, I see. So.... your invented "country of Pally'land" just magically appeared.... because you say so. 

Is this the "hysterical" version of events that you learned at the madrassah?


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## P F Tinmore (Jul 10, 2017)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


No, I get it from reading a lot of history.

Evidently you do not.


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