# NBC omits "under God"



## Wiseacre

During sunday's US Open golf tournament, NBC ran a segment where they showed kids reciting the pledge of allegiance, which was great.   But they edited out the "under God" words, similar to what president Obama himself did awhile back in a speech I think.    They got a lot of blowback from irrate viewers complaining about the omission, so they apologized saying it was not done to upset anyone.

    Well I'm not sure about that, but I am sure it was done intentionally, as did Obama.   I have to question why, surely they know this is going to inflame a lot of people.   And for what?   You know what, I think it comes down to arrogance, an eliteist position of gov't over God.   It's deliberately done with condescension and shows a lack of respect for any other view but thir own.    It's like we don't care what you think, if you don't agree then you're wrong and should be ignored or at least discounted.


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## Truthmatters

I never said it once I was old enough to think


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## HUGGY

Wiseacre said:


> During sunday's US Open golf tournament, NBC ran a segment where they showed kids reciting the pledge of allegiance, which was great.   But they edited out the "under God" words, similar to what president Obama himself did awhile back in a speech I think.    They got a lot of blowback from irrate viewers complaining about the omission, so they apologized saying it was not done to upset anyone.
> 
> Well I'm not sure about that, but I am sure it was done intentionally, as did Obama.   I have to question why, surely they know this is going to inflame a lot of people.   And for what?   You know what, I think it comes down to arrogance, an eliteist position of gov't over God.   It's deliberately done with condescension and shows a lack of respect for any other view but thir own.    It's like we don't care what you think, if you don't agree then you're wrong and should be ignored or at least discounted.



In Golf one must keep one's own score card.  God has nothing to do with it like as in football.


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## martybegan

Time to break out the popcorn for this one.....


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## Uncensored2008

Truthmatters said:


> I never said it once I was old enough to think



Bet you pledged allegiance to the USSR every day, though!


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## Truthmatters

man you are a partisan hack.

when was that put into the pledge?


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## Truthmatters

Pledge of Allegiance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Oddball

Truthmatters said:


> I never said it once I was old enough to think


IOW, you're still saying it.


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## Steve Hanson

Wiseacre said:


> During sunday's US Open golf tournament, NBC ran a segment where they showed kids reciting the pledge of allegiance, which was great.   But they edited out the "under God" words, similar to what president Obama himself did awhile back in a speech I think.    They got a lot of blowback from irrate viewers complaining about the omission, so they apologized saying it was not done to upset anyone.
> 
> Well I'm not sure about that, but I am sure it was done intentionally, as did Obama.   I have to question why, surely they know this is going to inflame a lot of people.   And for what?   You know what, I think it comes down to arrogance, an eliteist position of gov't over God.   It's deliberately done with condescension and shows a lack of respect for any other view but thir own.    It's like we don't care what you think, if you don't agree then you're wrong and should be ignored or at least discounted.



Disgusting. But you know what. Americans no longer care. And then we wonder why we have so many issues.


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## martybegan

Truthmatters said:


> Pledge of Allegiance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



It was added by congress, with popular support. Nothing wrong there.


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## Remodeling Maidiac

All the network news programs including msnbc have become obsolete because of the agendas they push. Their ratings continue to decline yet they do dumbshit like this. Clueless


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## Google

Truthmatters said:


> I never said it once I was old enough to think



The left's religious bigotry and hatred is not something that the majority of Americans agree with.  

NBC capitulated and apologized.  

The majority of Americans, even after decades of relentless leftist propaganda, do not share the left's morals and values.  They do not share your abhorrence, hatred, disdain for religion that you, and those on the left, constantly espouse.


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## Dr.Drock

Google said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never said it once I was old enough to think
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The left's religious bigotry and hatred is not something that the majority of Americans agree with.
> 
> NBC capitulated and apologized.
> 
> The majority of Americans, even after decades of relentless leftist propaganda, do not share the left's morals and values.  They do not share your abhorrence, hatred, disdain for religion that you, and those on the left, constantly espouse.
Click to expand...


This post makes it sound like you hold absolutely no bigotry towards atheists.


None whatsoever.......................................


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## Soggy in NOLA

Truthmatters said:


> I never said it once I was old enough to think



And considering that day has yet to arrive....


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## martybegan

Dr.Drock said:


> Google said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never said it once I was old enough to think
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The left's religious bigotry and hatred is not something that the majority of Americans agree with.
> 
> NBC capitulated and apologized.
> 
> The majority of Americans, even after decades of relentless leftist propaganda, do not share the left's morals and values.  They do not share your abhorrence, hatred, disdain for religion that you, and those on the left, constantly espouse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This post makes it sound like you hold absolutely no bigotry towards atheists.
> 
> 
> None whatsoever.......................................
Click to expand...


Whats the old line? " I dont care what you practice behind closed doors...."

Its less bigotry towards atheists and more of a backlash towards atheists who can't tolerate even the mention of religion, the uttering of the word "God", or symbols like a cross on some hilltop. Basically they want everyone to have to live by thier sterile view of no religion anywhere at anytime, and if they have even a sliver of legal standing, they will try to get said saying/symbol/utterance removed.

To me they just as bad as annoying evangelical christians, with more smugness.


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## Woyzeck

They left out 'indivisible' as well, so it looks like the mistake of the editor of the piece.

Judging by the response of some in this thread, it appears many have very thin skins and are easy to offend.


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## Tank

Maybe some of the kids would have liked to have said "under God"?


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## PoliticalChic

Soggy in NOLA said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never said it once I was old enough to think
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And considering that day has yet to arrive....
Click to expand...


C'mon...that was too easy....


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## Wiseacre

I am not sure if this is really a religious issue or whether the truly elite liberals are trying to convince everybody else that basic human rights are granted by the gov't rather than by God.   Now I'm not a believer in God myself, although I am still open to the question, but I think basic human rights are NOT granted by any gov't but rather by simply being born a human being.   IMHO, gov't is supposed to protect those rights, but it does not grant them.   The eliteist left would have us believe otherwise, and that's why we see this crap.


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## Wiseacre

Tank said:


> Maybe some of the kids would have liked to have said "under God"?




I think they did say it, but the assholes at NBC edited it out.


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## xsited1

Wiseacre said:


> During sunday's US Open golf tournament, NBC ran a segment where they showed kids reciting the pledge of allegiance, which was great.   But they edited out the "under God" words, similar to what president Obama himself did awhile back in a speech I think.    They got a lot of blowback from irrate viewers complaining about the omission, so they apologized saying it was not done to upset anyone.
> 
> Well I'm not sure about that, but I am sure it was done intentionally, as did Obama.   I have to question why, surely they know this is going to inflame a lot of people.   And for what?   You know what, I think it comes down to arrogance, an eliteist position of gov't over God.   It's deliberately done with condescension and shows a lack of respect for any other view but thir own.    It's like we don't care what you think, if you don't agree then you're wrong and should be ignored or at least discounted.



Of course it was done intentionally.  We wouldn't want to upset the big-government types who believe the government is above God.


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## Google

Woyzeck said:


> They left out 'indivisible' as well, so it looks like the mistake of the editor of the piece.
> 
> Judging by the response of some in this thread, it appears many have very thin skins and are easy to offend.



If you believe that this was a simple editing mistake, you have absolutely no idea of the people running NBC--for that matter television in general.  These people openly admit there hostility for religion.


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## PoliticalChic

Truthmatters said:


> I never said it once I was old enough to think



I'm not suggesting that said decision on your part was not thought out, but I wonder if you are aware that the anti-religion movement, the French Revolution, is the source of a number of your views, i.e., the Leftist thought and movements?

1. For the origins of fascism, we should search through the Romantic nationalism of the 18th century, and the philosophy of Jean-Jacques Rousseau, who might even be called the Father of Modern Fascism.

a.	The French Revolution was the first totalitarian revolution: a nationalist, populist uprising, led and manipulated by an intellectual vanguard determined to replace Christianity with a political religion.
Rousseau: Political Economy

2.       In fact, Rousseau has been called the precursor of the modern pseudo-democrats such as Stalin and Hitler and the "people's democracies." His call for the "sovereign" to force men to be free if necessary in the interests of the "General Will" harks back to the Lycurgus of Sparta instead of to the pluralism of Athens; the legacy of Rousseau is Robespierre and the radical Jacobins of the Terror who followed and worshipped him passionately. In the 20th century, his influence is further felt by tyrants who would arouse the egalitarian passions of the masses not so much in the interests of social justice as social control.French Revolution - Robespierre, and the Legacy of the Reign of Terror

3. So, investing nationalism with the idea of the general will created a secular, if circular,  religion: the people worshipped themselves! Thus the primacy of the collective, directly from Rousseau.

`	a. Rousseau points out, in The Social Contract, that a weakness of Christianity was that men have never known whether they ought to obey the civil ruler or priest (God or Caesar), so it would be better for all to have a society were religion and politics were one.
	b. Revolutionary descendents of Rousseau knew that they had to exterminate every trace of Christianity from the public agenda. Mussolini wrote in 1919 Two religions are today contendingfor sway in the world- the black and the red.

	c. In the Papal Encyclical Non Abbiamo Bisogno, the Vatican accused the fascists of organizing a state religion, to monopolize completely the young, for the exclusive advantage of a party and of a regime based on an ideology which clearly resolves itself into a true, a real pagan worship of the State. Pius XI, Non abbiamo bisogno (29/06/1931)


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## Jack Fate

But.....but.....Fox is biased.........and......and......Sarah Palin is stupid.....and...uh...


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## Woyzeck

Google said:


> Woyzeck said:
> 
> 
> 
> They left out 'indivisible' as well, so it looks like the mistake of the editor of the piece.
> 
> Judging by the response of some in this thread, it appears many have very thin skins and are easy to offend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you believe that this was a simple editing mistake, you have absolutely no idea of the people running NBC--for that matter television in general.  These people openly admit there hostility for religion.
Click to expand...


They also left out indivisible. Does this mean NBC is promoting secession?


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## HUGGY

Wiseacre said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe some of the kids would have liked to have said "under God"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they did say it, but the assholes at NBC edited it out.
Click to expand...


Who was hurt by this exactly?


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## PoliticalChic

HUGGY said:


> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe some of the kids would have liked to have said "under God"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they did say it, but the assholes at NBC edited it out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who was hurt by this exactly?
Click to expand...


There must have been some point when you had consideration for folks
who believe differently than you do....no?


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## Jack Fate

HUGGY said:


> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe some of the kids would have liked to have said "under God"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they did say it, but the assholes at NBC edited it out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who was hurt by this exactly?
Click to expand...


Everyone who loves the truth.


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## Caroljo

HUGGY said:


> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe some of the kids would have liked to have said "under God"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they did say it, but the assholes at NBC edited it out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who was hurt by this exactly?
Click to expand...


More than likely nobody was HURT by it...but it just shows what NCB will stoop to.  Just kinda shows us that they can't be trusted reporting anything, how many other times have they cut out "parts" of something just so we don't hear it???


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## Wiseacre

Caroljo said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think they did say it, but the assholes at NBC edited it out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who was hurt by this exactly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More than likely nobody was HURT by it...but it just shows what NCB will stoop to.  Just kinda shows us that they can't be trusted reporting anything, how many other times have they cut out "parts" of something just so we don't hear it???
Click to expand...



I think we're all hurt by this, when a major TV network uses a national sports event watched by millions to show what amounts to political propaganda, that ain't good.  The American people do not trust the media, and with good reason judging by stuff like this.    Those who bitch about Fox News oughta be realizing they do not have the moral high ground.


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## FA_Q2

martybegan said:


> Dr.Drock said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google said:
> 
> 
> 
> The left's religious bigotry and hatred is not something that the majority of Americans agree with.
> 
> NBC capitulated and apologized.
> 
> The majority of Americans, even after decades of relentless leftist propaganda, do not share the left's morals and values.  They do not share your abhorrence, hatred, disdain for religion that you, and those on the left, constantly espouse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This post makes it sound like you hold absolutely no bigotry towards atheists.
> 
> 
> None whatsoever.......................................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whats the old line? " I dont care what you practice behind closed doors...."
> 
> Its less bigotry towards atheists and more of a backlash towards atheists who can't tolerate even the mention of religion, the uttering of the word "God", or symbols like a cross on some hilltop. Basically they want everyone to have to live by thier sterile view of no religion anywhere at anytime, and if they have even a sliver of legal standing, they will try to get said saying/symbol/utterance removed.
> 
> To me they just as bad as annoying evangelical christians, with more smugness.
Click to expand...


As an atheist, I second this statement.  Nothing is more annoying to me as an atheist trying to turn non-belief (NOT A RELIGION) into a religion.  It costs me countless posts having to reiterate to zealots here that atheism is not a religion just because some people who claim to be atheists when they are actually atheist-theists.  



Truthmatters said:


> I never said it once I was old enough to think



You seem to be mistaking your CHOICE to self-edit and a news stations choice of editing it out after you have chosen to say it.  One is dishonest and pointless.  The other is a personal choice.


Woyzeck said:


> Google said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woyzeck said:
> 
> 
> 
> They left out 'indivisible' as well, so it looks like the mistake of the editor of the piece.
> 
> Judging by the response of some in this thread, it appears many have very thin skins and are easy to offend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you believe that this was a simple editing mistake, you have absolutely no idea of the people running NBC--for that matter television in general.  These people openly admit there hostility for religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They also left out indivisible. Does this mean NBC is promoting secession?
Click to expand...



No, it is an editor that cut a little more than needed.  How can you accidently edit something out if you were not editing it at all.  They had to have been purposefully editing something at that point and I doubt it was indivisible.  I do wonder what they were trying to accomplish though.  I cannot seem to think that anyone would knowingly do this as it gains them nothing and WILL be noticed.  Apparently, there are millions of people out there that have nothing to do.


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## saveliberty

Steve Hanson said:


> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> During sunday's US Open golf tournament, NBC ran a segment where they showed kids reciting the pledge of allegiance, which was great.   But they edited out the "under God" words, similar to what president Obama himself did awhile back in a speech I think.    They got a lot of blowback from irrate viewers complaining about the omission, so they apologized saying it was not done to upset anyone.
> 
> Well I'm not sure about that, but I am sure it was done intentionally, as did Obama.   I have to question why, surely they know this is going to inflame a lot of people.   And for what?   You know what, I think it comes down to arrogance, an eliteist position of gov't over God.   It's deliberately done with condescension and shows a lack of respect for any other view but thir own.    It's like we don't care what you think, if you don't agree then you're wrong and should be ignored or at least discounted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disgusting. But you know what. Americans no longer care. And then we wonder why we have so many issues.
Click to expand...


Apparently a fair number of Americans DO care and that is why NBC apologized.  If they had an issue with the pledge they could have simply not included it in their coverage.  By its inclusion, you can only conclude that NBC is seeking to support Obama's agenda and bastardization of our culture and history.


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## rightwinger

I will never watch NBC again....


Unless there is a football game on


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## Caroljo

Wiseacre said:


> Caroljo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who was hurt by this exactly?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More than likely nobody was HURT by it...but it just shows what NCB will stoop to.  Just kinda shows us that they can't be trusted reporting anything, how many other times have they cut out "parts" of something just so we don't hear it???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I think we're all hurt by this, when a major TV network uses a national sports event watched by millions to show what amounts to political propaganda, that ain't good.  The American people do not trust the media, and with good reason judging by stuff like this.    Those who bitch about Fox News oughta be realizing they do not have the moral high ground.
Click to expand...


Yes...i see what you mean and i do agree with that, just didn't really think it through enough!  Like i said, what else have they edited out?  I think there's been quite alot.


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## BlindBoo

Hahahahaha

Nothing like a non-issue to take your mind off the pressing issues of the day.


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## Uncensored2008

BlindBoo said:


> Hahahahaha
> 
> Nothing like a non-issue to take your mind off the pressing issues of the day.



What's a little censorship between comrades, eh?


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## whitehall

Truthmatters said:


> I never said it once I was old enough to think



Not surprising.


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## hortysir

HUGGY said:


> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe some of the kids would have liked to have said "under God"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they did say it, but the assholes at NBC edited it out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who was hurt by this exactly?
Click to expand...

See post #9
More and more people do not care.



Sad


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## whitehall

Wiseacre said:


> During sunday's US Open golf tournament, NBC ran a segment where they showed kids reciting the pledge of allegiance, which was great.   But they edited out the "under God" words, similar to what president Obama himself did awhile back in a speech I think.    They got a lot of blowback from irrate viewers complaining about the omission, so they apologized saying it was not done to upset anyone.
> 
> Well I'm not sure about that, but I am sure it was done intentionally, as did Obama.   I have to question why, surely they know this is going to inflame a lot of people.   And for what?   You know what, I think it comes down to arrogance, an eliteist position of gov't over God.   It's deliberately done with condescension and shows a lack of respect for any other view but thir own.    It's like we don't care what you think, if you don't agree then you're wrong and should be ignored or at least discounted.



It's a typical left wing dishonest stealth mission to undermine American values. Nobody forces Americans to recite the "Pledge" or even say the right words. If NBC decided "Under God" wasn't appropriate why lie about it? If the left would be honest in their agenda things would be a lot easier. The problem is that he left isn't honest about anything. They can't tell the truth even if it would be easier than lying. Obama can't say he is pro-socialist because nobody but Stalinists would vote for him. NBC can't say they want to undermine American values and traditions because they would lose money.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

Grampa Murked U said:


> All the network news programs including msnbc have become obsolete because of the agendas they push. Their ratings continue to decline yet they do dumbshit like this. Clueless



this guy understands, as does the person who made the thread.


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## Sherry

Wiseacre said:


> Caroljo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who was hurt by this exactly?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More than likely nobody was HURT by it...but it just shows what NCB will stoop to.  Just kinda shows us that they can't be trusted reporting anything, how many other times have they cut out "parts" of something just so we don't hear it???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I think we're all hurt by this, when a major TV network uses a national sports event watched by millions to show what amounts to political propaganda, that ain't good.  The American people do not trust the media, and with good reason judging by stuff like this.    Those who bitch about Fox News oughta be realizing they do not have the moral high ground.
Click to expand...


I do wonder how surprised NBC was by the audience reaction, and if it's a matter of propaganda or an attempt at distraction....look over there at those crazy Christians making such a scene.


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## rightwinger

Grampa Murked U said:


> All the network news programs including msnbc have become obsolete because of the agendas they push. Their ratings continue to decline yet they do dumbshit like this. Clueless



Network news continues to draw much higher ratings than the cable news shows (yes...even Fox News)


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## manifold

It's high time we remove the "under God" bastardization from the pledge anyway.

Thanks a lot Dwight D (for Douchewagon) Eisenhower.


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## FuelRod

The media does nothing unintentionally.


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## Remodeling Maidiac

rightwinger said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> All the network news
> 
> programs including msnbc have become obsolete because of the agendas they push. Their ratings continue to decline yet they do dumbshit like this. Clueless
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Network news continues to draw much higher ratings than the cable news shows (yes...even Fox News)
Click to expand...

o

Considering they don't require you to think its no surprise the masses at times watch them report on the latest Barbie  doll to stir up controversy.  You don't get news on the networks you get 2 minute fluff stories to keep your mind focussed off of what really matters. Ie the latest fashion craze of what Palin is wearing and who paid for it or whos giving who leg tingles.


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## Tank

NBC apologized


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## manifold

Tank said:


> NBC apologized



So?


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## Caroljo

manifold said:


> It's high time we remove the "under God" bastardization from the pledge anyway.
> 
> Thanks a lot Dwight D (for Douchewagon) Eisenhower.



You're so right...we have to take God out of everything because of the "minority" of people that want it done (the majority doesn't matter!)...look how great our schools are since they removed God from our schools! We may not have had so many school shootings if we'd kept Him there!  The kids might have learned some RESPECT for their teachers and other adults, wouldn't want that!  

(just in case - yes, I was being sarcastic!!)


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## Caroljo

Tank said:


> NBC apologized



That's nice...i'm sure it was an honest apology too and they'll NEVER do it again! Lol!


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## manifold

Caroljo said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's high time we remove the "under God" bastardization from the pledge anyway.
> 
> Thanks a lot Dwight D (for Douchewagon) Eisenhower.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're so right...we have to take God out of everything because of the "minority" of people that want it done (the majority doesn't matter!)...look how great our schools are since they removed God from our schools! We may not have had so many school shootings if we'd kept Him there!  The kids might have learned some RESPECT for their teachers and other adults, wouldn't want that!
> 
> (just in case - yes, I was being sarcastic!!)
Click to expand...


Nice rant. 

We should still go back to the *original* version of the pledge IMO.  Patriotism does not require faith.


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## Uncensored2008

manifold said:


> We should still go back to the *original* version of the pledge IMO.  Patriotism does not require faith.



I pledge allegiance, to the United States Constitution, to the principles and ideals it represents and defines. Many states, individual with sovereignty and liberty not derived of a central power; and to the Republic, from them created by them empowered with the consent of the states and the people therein, for only this can establish liberty and justice for all.


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## BlindBoo

Uncensored2008 said:


> BlindBoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hahahahaha
> 
> Nothing like a non-issue to take your mind off the pressing issues of the day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's a little censorship between comrades, eh?
Click to expand...


NBC is free to air what it wants too.  Or is it your position to force NBC to air the "Under God, indivisable.." verse/line.

Nothing like a good "God" distraction to get people emotionally involved....


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## BlindBoo

Wiseacre said:


> Caroljo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who was hurt by this exactly?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More than likely nobody was HURT by it...but it just shows what NCB will stoop to.  Just kinda shows us that they can't be trusted reporting anything, how many other times have they cut out "parts" of something just so we don't hear it???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I think we're all hurt by this, when a major TV network uses a national sports event watched by millions to show what amounts to political propaganda, that ain't good.  The American people do not trust the media, and with good reason judging by stuff like this.    Those who bitch about Fox News oughta be realizing they do not have the moral high ground.
Click to expand...


Awwe those poor golf fans.  Hey I know they could just tune into one of the hundreds of baseball games during the 7th inning stretch and catch a stunning rendition of "God Bless America".


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## iamwhatiseem

Truthmatters said:


> man you are a partisan hack.
> 
> when was that put into the pledge?



This is too good to pass up...TM just called someone a partisan hack...ROTFL!!!


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## saveliberty

Actually, I have added, "for those who can afford it", to the end a few times.


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## RDD_1210

I like it. Separation of Church and State. But then again, I don't really care if you leave it in. One way or another it means nothing.


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## techieny

Jeffery Immelt is the most political (left) and ineffective CEO of our times!!!


----------



## Wiseacre

RDD_1210 said:


> I like it. Separation of Church and State. But then again, I don't really care if you leave it in. One way or another it means nothing.




I don't think it's really about separation of church and state, it's about retraining most Americans to believe their basic human rights come from the gov't.   It's the progressive liberal pov, we gave you those rights and we can take 'em away.

Even if you do not believe in God, your basic rights are not derived from the gov't, they are your birthright.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

Uncensored2008 said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> We should still go back to the *original* version of the pledge IMO.  Patriotism does not require faith.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I pledge allegiance, to the United States Constitution, to the principles and ideals it represents and defines. Many states, individual with sovereignty and liberty not derived of a central power; and to the Republic, from them created by them empowered with the consent of the states and the people therein, for only this can establish liberty and justice for all.
Click to expand...


agreed


----------



## Woyzeck

FA_Q2 said:


> Woyzeck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you believe that this was a simple editing mistake, you have absolutely no idea of the people running NBC--for that matter television in general.  These people openly admit there hostility for religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They also left out indivisible. Does this mean NBC is promoting secession?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, it is an editor that cut a little more than needed.  How can you accidently edit something out if you were not editing it at all.  They had to have been purposefully editing something at that point and I doubt it was indivisible.  I do wonder what they were trying to accomplish though.  I cannot seem to think that anyone would knowingly do this as it gains them nothing and WILL be noticed.  Apparently, there are millions of people out there that have nothing to do.
Click to expand...


You can accidentally edit something out, because that bit with the pledge they ran didn't just assemble (i.e., edit) itself magically. Someone (an editor) had to put all the video, and the audio. The intro had a lot of shots of stuff to include, as well as the patriotic music, the pledge and the narration for the golf tournament intro. Not to mention, they were splitting up the pledge for other stuff in between. There's a solider giving some shout or order where the missing part of the pledge should be. Editing this stuff ain't easy.

I should think more people would be angry over indivisible getting edited out accidentally. But I guess some people are okay with us being divisible.


----------



## jillian

Wiseacre said:


> During sunday's US Open golf tournament, NBC ran a segment where they showed kids reciting the pledge of allegiance, which was great.   But they edited out the "under God" words, similar to what president Obama himself did awhile back in a speech I think.    They got a lot of blowback from irrate viewers complaining about the omission, so they apologized saying it was not done to upset anyone.
> 
> Well I'm not sure about that, but I am sure it was done intentionally, as did Obama.   I have to question why, surely they know this is going to inflame a lot of people.   And for what?   You know what, I think it comes down to arrogance, an eliteist position of gov't over God.   It's deliberately done with condescension and shows a lack of respect for any other view but thir own.    It's like we don't care what you think, if you don't agree then you're wrong and should be ignored or at least discounted.



i don't recall the president doing that. what i do recall is him not putting his hand over his heart during the national anthem (something i've never done, but there ya go).

as for the words "under G-d", they were never in the pledge until the McCarthy Era because that's how the commie hunters wanted to weed out commies. 

I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over it either way.


----------



## Uncensored2008

BlindBoo said:


> NBC is free to air what it wants too.  Or is it your position to force NBC to air the "Under God, indivisable.." verse/line.



It's my position that what NBC broadcasts falls under the heading of "party propaganda" rather than news, thus invalidating the FCC license they hold.

But this was a sports show, so not relevant to that. NBC are a bunch of morons - and shot themselves in the foot -- AGAIN...


----------



## Wiseacre

jillian said:


> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> During sunday's US Open golf tournament, NBC ran a segment where they showed kids reciting the pledge of allegiance, which was great.   But they edited out the "under God" words, similar to what president Obama himself did awhile back in a speech I think.    They got a lot of blowback from irrate viewers complaining about the omission, so they apologized saying it was not done to upset anyone.
> 
> Well I'm not sure about that, but I am sure it was done intentionally, as did Obama.   I have to question why, surely they know this is going to inflame a lot of people.   And for what?   You know what, I think it comes down to arrogance, an eliteist position of gov't over God.   It's deliberately done with condescension and shows a lack of respect for any other view but thir own.    It's like we don't care what you think, if you don't agree then you're wrong and should be ignored or at least discounted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i don't recall the president doing that. what i do recall is him not putting his hand over his heart during the national anthem (something i've never done, but there ya go).
> 
> as for the words "under G-d", they were never in the pledge until the McCarthy Era because that's how the commie hunters wanted to weed out commies.
> 
> I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over it either way.
Click to expand...



Below was the incident I had in mind, got it wrong specifically but not generally.   Is it a big deal, the NBC thing or this?   In the overall scope of things we have to deal with today, probably not.    I don't care if Obama is religious or not, although I will say I don't like the hypocrisy of it, saying one thing and being another.    But don't be editing the Pledge, or misquoting the Declaration on purpose to make a poliical point.   And don't be telling me is was a mistake, these people know damn well what the words are and they should get it right or not say it at all.


Back in Sept 2010:

File this under the pseudo-Christian column. President Obama concluded his speech at this week&#8217;s Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute gala with,

&#8220;We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, endowed with certain inalienable rights, life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness.&#8221;

The U.S. Declaration of Independence reads,

&#8220;We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed *by their Creator *with certain inalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.&#8221;


----------



## RDD_1210

Wiseacre said:


> RDD_1210 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like it. Separation of Church and State. But then again, I don't really care if you leave it in. One way or another it means nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think it's really about separation of church and state, it's about retraining most Americans to believe their basic human rights come from the gov't.   It's the progressive liberal pov, we gave you those rights and we can take 'em away.
> 
> Even if you do not believe in God, your basic rights are not derived from the gov't, they are your birthright.
Click to expand...


The pledge is an oath to the country not god. The rights you enjoy are the rights of being an american.


----------



## Synthaholic

Wiseacre said:


> During sunday's US Open golf tournament, NBC ran a segment where they showed kids reciting the pledge of allegiance, which was great.   But they edited out the "under God" words, similar to what president Obama himself did awhile back in a speech I think.    They got a lot of blowback from irrate viewers complaining about the omission, so they apologized saying it was not done to upset anyone.
> 
> Well I'm not sure about that, but I am sure it was done intentionally, as did Obama.   I have to question why, surely they know this is going to inflame a lot of people.   And for what?   You know what, I think it comes down to arrogance, an eliteist position of gov't over God.   It's deliberately done with condescension and shows a lack of respect for any other view but thir own.    It's like we don't care what you think, if you don't agree then you're wrong and should be ignored or at least discounted.


Who gives a shit?


----------



## Uncensored2008

RDD_1210 said:


> The pledge is an oath to the country not god. The rights you enjoy are the rights of being an american.



So rights are derived from the state? Without the state, we would have no rights?


----------



## Bfgrn

The Pledge of Allegiance

The Pledge of Allegiance was written in August 1892 by the socialist minister Francis Bellamy (1855-1931). It was originally published in The Youth's Companion on September 8, 1892. Bellamy had hoped that the pledge would be used by citizens in any country.

In its original form it read:

    "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Don't forget the Bellamy salute


----------



## RDD_1210

Uncensored2008 said:


> RDD_1210 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The pledge is an oath to the country not god. The rights you enjoy are the rights of being an american.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So rights are derived from the state? Without the state, we would have no rights?
Click to expand...


Without government, who is there to enforce any rights you have?


----------



## saveliberty

Woyzeck said:


> FA_Q2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woyzeck said:
> 
> 
> 
> They also left out indivisible. Does this mean NBC is promoting secession?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it is an editor that cut a little more than needed.  How can you accidently edit something out if you were not editing it at all.  They had to have been purposefully editing something at that point and I doubt it was indivisible.  I do wonder what they were trying to accomplish though.  I cannot seem to think that anyone would knowingly do this as it gains them nothing and WILL be noticed.  Apparently, there are millions of people out there that have nothing to do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can accidentally edit something out, because that bit with the pledge they ran didn't just assemble (i.e., edit) itself magically. Someone (an editor) had to put all the video, and the audio. The intro had a lot of shots of stuff to include, as well as the patriotic music, the pledge and the narration for the golf tournament intro. Not to mention, they were splitting up the pledge for other stuff in between. There's a solider giving some shout or order where the missing part of the pledge should be. Editing this stuff ain't easy.
> 
> I should think more people would be angry over indivisible getting edited out accidentally. But I guess some people are okay with us being divisible.
Click to expand...


NBC admitted the editing was on purpose, by a small group of decisionmakers, and it was wrong.


----------



## theDoctorisIn

Google said:


> Woyzeck said:
> 
> 
> 
> They left out 'indivisible' as well, so it looks like the mistake of the editor of the piece.
> 
> Judging by the response of some in this thread, it appears many have very thin skins and are easy to offend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you believe that this was a simple editing mistake, you have absolutely no idea of the people running NBC--for that matter television in general.  These people openly admit there hostility for religion.
Click to expand...


NBC is "run" by CEO Steven Burke, a Christian and a Republican.


----------



## Woyzeck

saveliberty said:


> Woyzeck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FA_Q2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, it is an editor that cut a little more than needed.  How can you accidently edit something out if you were not editing it at all.  They had to have been purposefully editing something at that point and I doubt it was indivisible.  I do wonder what they were trying to accomplish though.  I cannot seem to think that anyone would knowingly do this as it gains them nothing and WILL be noticed.  Apparently, there are millions of people out there that have nothing to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can accidentally edit something out, because that bit with the pledge they ran didn't just assemble (i.e., edit) itself magically. Someone (an editor) had to put all the video, and the audio. The intro had a lot of shots of stuff to include, as well as the patriotic music, the pledge and the narration for the golf tournament intro. Not to mention, they were splitting up the pledge for other stuff in between. There's a solider giving some shout or order where the missing part of the pledge should be. Editing this stuff ain't easy.
> 
> I should think more people would be angry over indivisible getting edited out accidentally. But I guess some people are okay with us being divisible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> NBC admitted the editing was on purpose, by a small group of decisionmakers, and it was wrong.
Click to expand...


Hrm? Link please.


----------



## saveliberty

Woyzeck said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woyzeck said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can accidentally edit something out, because that bit with the pledge they ran didn't just assemble (i.e., edit) itself magically. Someone (an editor) had to put all the video, and the audio. The intro had a lot of shots of stuff to include, as well as the patriotic music, the pledge and the narration for the golf tournament intro. Not to mention, they were splitting up the pledge for other stuff in between. There's a solider giving some shout or order where the missing part of the pledge should be. Editing this stuff ain't easy.
> 
> I should think more people would be angry over indivisible getting edited out accidentally. But I guess some people are okay with us being divisible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NBC admitted the editing was on purpose, by a small group of decisionmakers, and it was wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hrm? Link please.
Click to expand...


In a letter it is sending to viewers who complained, NBC says the decision to edit the Pledge of Allegiance in a piece teeing off its U.S. Open Golf coverage was a "bad decision" made by a "small group of people," and that the controversy it created was justifiable.

From the letter:

Unfortunately, when producing the piece - which was intended to capitalize on the patriotism of having our national championship played in our nation's capital - a decision was made by a small group of people to edit portions of the Pledge of Allegiance. This was a bad decision.

NBC Says Cutting Pledge During U.S. Open Was Bad Decision - 2011-06-20 19:09:59 | Broadcasting & Cable


----------



## theDoctorisIn

saveliberty said:


> Woyzeck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> NBC admitted the editing was on purpose, by a small group of decisionmakers, and it was wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hrm? Link please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In a letter it is sending to viewers who complained, NBC says the decision to edit the Pledge of Allegiance in a piece teeing off its U.S. Open Golf coverage was a "bad decision" made by a "small group of people," and that the controversy it created was justifiable.
> 
> From the letter:
> 
> Unfortunately, when producing the piece - which was intended to capitalize on the patriotism of having our national championship played in our nation's capital - a decision was made by a small group of people to edit portions of the Pledge of Allegiance. This was a bad decision.
> 
> NBC Says Cutting Pledge During U.S. Open Was Bad Decision - 2011-06-20 19:09:59 | Broadcasting & Cable
Click to expand...


Nowhere in that piece does anyone say it was done "on purpose".

Have you had any experience with video editing?


----------



## saveliberty

theDoctorisIn said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woyzeck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hrm? Link please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a letter it is sending to viewers who complained, NBC says the decision to edit the Pledge of Allegiance in a piece teeing off its U.S. Open Golf coverage was a "bad decision" made by a "small group of people," and that the controversy it created was justifiable.
> 
> From the letter:
> 
> Unfortunately, when producing the piece - which was intended to capitalize on the patriotism of having our national championship played in our nation's capital - a decision was made by a small group of people to edit portions of the Pledge of Allegiance. This was a bad decision.
> 
> NBC Says Cutting Pledge During U.S. Open Was Bad Decision - 2011-06-20 19:09:59 | Broadcasting & Cable
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nowhere in that piece does anyone say it was done "on purpose".
> 
> Have you had any experience with video editing?
Click to expand...


Where is your proof that the pledge was a real time performance?  As far as I know, it was a prerecorded editted piece.  This negates your argument entirely.


----------



## Sherry

theDoctorisIn said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woyzeck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hrm? Link please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a letter it is sending to viewers who complained, NBC says the decision to edit the Pledge of Allegiance in a piece teeing off its U.S. Open Golf coverage was a "bad decision" made by a "small group of people," and that the controversy it created was justifiable.
> 
> From the letter:
> 
> Unfortunately, when producing the piece - which was intended to capitalize on the patriotism of having our national championship played in our nation's capital - a decision was made by a small group of people to edit portions of the Pledge of Allegiance. This was a bad decision.
> 
> NBC Says Cutting Pledge During U.S. Open Was Bad Decision - 2011-06-20 19:09:59 | Broadcasting & Cable
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nowhere in that piece does anyone say it was done "on purpose".
> 
> Have you had any experience with video editing?
Click to expand...


So they accidentally made the decision.


----------



## theDoctorisIn

Sherry said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> In a letter it is sending to viewers who complained, NBC says the decision to edit the Pledge of Allegiance in a piece teeing off its U.S. Open Golf coverage was a "bad decision" made by a "small group of people," and that the controversy it created was justifiable.
> 
> From the letter:
> 
> Unfortunately, when producing the piece - which was intended to capitalize on the patriotism of having our national championship played in our nation's capital - a decision was made by a small group of people to edit portions of the Pledge of Allegiance. This was a bad decision.
> 
> NBC Says Cutting Pledge During U.S. Open Was Bad Decision - 2011-06-20 19:09:59 | Broadcasting & Cable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nowhere in that piece does anyone say it was done "on purpose".
> 
> Have you had any experience with video editing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So they accidentally made the decision.
Click to expand...


More accurately, they edited it to fit the time, not realizing the hysterics that would come from it, from rapid, obsessive politic-religious nutjobs.

The "NBC hates Christians" meme is pretty much the dumbest thing I've ever heard.


----------



## saveliberty

"In a montage of students reciting the pledge, intercut with images of flags, soldiers and monuments from nearby Washington that aired early Sunday afternoon (June 19), omitted was the phrase "under God" (as well as "one nation" and "indivisible")." - from article above

Care to explain how they video editted the above in real time?  It was prerecorded.  Also, just stop and think about the time lapse between an opening ceremony like this and tee off times for the match.  Clearly done ahead of time.


----------



## theDoctorisIn

saveliberty said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> In a letter it is sending to viewers who complained, NBC says the decision to edit the Pledge of Allegiance in a piece teeing off its U.S. Open Golf coverage was a "bad decision" made by a "small group of people," and that the controversy it created was justifiable.
> 
> From the letter:
> 
> Unfortunately, when producing the piece - which was intended to capitalize on the patriotism of having our national championship played in our nation's capital - a decision was made by a small group of people to edit portions of the Pledge of Allegiance. This was a bad decision.
> 
> NBC Says Cutting Pledge During U.S. Open Was Bad Decision - 2011-06-20 19:09:59 | Broadcasting & Cable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nowhere in that piece does anyone say it was done "on purpose".
> 
> Have you had any experience with video editing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where is your proof that the pledge was a real time performance?  As far as I know, it was a prerecorded editted piece.  This negates your argument entirely.
Click to expand...


I worded my answer ambiguously, I apologize. They didn't edit it "accidentally" - but they didn't edit out "under god" because they hate Christians, they did it for time.


----------



## saveliberty

theDoctorisIn said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nowhere in that piece does anyone say it was done "on purpose".
> 
> Have you had any experience with video editing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is your proof that the pledge was a real time performance?  As far as I know, it was a prerecorded editted piece.  This negates your argument entirely.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I worded my answer ambiguously, I apologize. They didn't edit it "accidentally" - but they didn't edit out "under god" because they hate Christians, they did it for time.
Click to expand...


Yes, because that took a whole 0.33 seconds of air time and they needed to fit another three flags into the piece instead.  

I backed up my comments with a letter NBC.  Can you do the same?


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

Wiseacre said:


> RDD_1210 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like it. Separation of Church and State. But then again, I don't really care if you leave it in. One way or another it means nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think it's really about separation of church and state, it's about retraining most Americans to believe their basic human rights come from the gov't.   It's the progressive liberal pov, we gave you those rights and we can take 'em away.
> 
> Even if you do not believe in God, your basic rights are not derived from the gov't, they are your birthright.
Click to expand...


we are born with rights grandted by GOD, not the government.  The constition is there to PREVENT the federal government from infringing on those rights by telling it what it can NOT do.

And if your an athiest think of it this way.  You have rights granted by virtue of being a human, not by virtue of being an american and the constition is there to limit the federal govt from infringing on those rights.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

> Well I'm not sure about that, but I am sure it was done intentionally, as did Obama. I have to question why, surely they know this is going to inflame a lot of people. And for what? You know what, I think it comes down to arrogance, an eliteist position of gov't over God. It's deliberately done with condescension and shows a lack of respect for any other view but thir own.



It has nothing to do with elitism or arrogance. 

And no ones advocating government over god, simply that the Establishment Clause be followed per the Framers intent: that there be no conjoining of church and State. 

But thats not whats at issue, ironically  NBC and its parent company are private sector entities; theyre completely free to do what they please or not with regard to religion. Wheres the conservative dogma that private corporations should be free to do as they please? 



> It's like we don't care what you think, if you don't agree then you're wrong and should be ignored or at least discounted.



Actually, that sounds more conservative than anything else.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

RDD_1210 said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RDD_1210 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The pledge is an oath to the country not god. The rights you enjoy are the rights of being an american.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So rights are derived from the state? Without the state, we would have no rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Without government, who is there to enforce any rights you have?
Click to expand...


Me silly.  We are all endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights to LIFE, LIBERTY, and PROPERTY (AKA Persuit of happiness).   

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on whats for dinner, liberty is a well armed lamb contesting that outcome. -Benjamin Franklin.


----------



## theDoctorisIn

saveliberty said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is your proof that the pledge was a real time performance?  As far as I know, it was a prerecorded editted piece.  This negates your argument entirely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I worded my answer ambiguously, I apologize. They didn't edit it "accidentally" - but they didn't edit out "under god" because they hate Christians, they did it for time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, because that took a whole 0.33 seconds of air time and they needed to fit another three flags into the piece instead.
> 
> I backed up my comments with a letter NBC.  Can you do the same?
Click to expand...


Where in that letter did NBC say that they edited out "under god" because they hate Christians? 

Unless I missed something, that doesn't back up your claims at all.


----------



## Flopper

Wiseacre said:


> During sunday's US Open golf tournament, NBC ran a segment where they showed kids reciting the pledge of allegiance, which was great.   But they edited out the "under God" words, similar to what president Obama himself did awhile back in a speech I think.    They got a lot of blowback from irrate viewers complaining about the omission, so they apologized saying it was not done to upset anyone.
> 
> Well I'm not sure about that, but I am sure it was done intentionally, as did Obama.   I have to question why, surely they know this is going to inflame a lot of people.   And for what?   You know what, I think it comes down to arrogance, an eliteist position of gov't over God.   It's deliberately done with condescension and shows a lack of respect for any other view but thir own.    It's like we don't care what you think, if you don't agree then you're wrong and should be ignored or at least discounted.


*If it was done intentionally, I doubt NBC would have apologized, which they did.

"In a statement during the broadcast, NBC commentator Dan Hicks said, "We began our coverage of this final round just about three hours ago and when we did it was our intent to begin the coverage of this U.S. Open Championship with a feature that captured the patriotism of our national championship being held in our nation's capital for the third time.
"Regrettably, a portion of the Pledge of Allegiance that was in that feature was edited out. It was not done to upset anyone and we'd like to apologize to those of you who were offended by it."

You righties know this has to be true because this came from Fox News.  More much ado about nothing!
NBC Apologizes for Omitting 'Under God' From Pledge During U.S. Open Broadcast - FoxNews.com
Read more: NBC Apologizes for Omitting 'Under God' From Pledge During U.S. Open Broadcast - FoxNews.com*


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

theDoctorisIn said:


> Google said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woyzeck said:
> 
> 
> 
> They left out 'indivisible' as well, so it looks like the mistake of the editor of the piece.
> 
> Judging by the response of some in this thread, it appears many have very thin skins and are easy to offend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you believe that this was a simple editing mistake, you have absolutely no idea of the people running NBC--for that matter television in general.  These people openly admit there hostility for religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> NBC is "run" by CEO Steven Burke, a Christian and a Republican.
Click to expand...


Lets see what MSNBC's CEO has to say about what you just said

Phil Griffin:



			
				msnbc ceo phil griffin said:
			
		

> Phil Griffin: MSNBC Stands For Something Is Really The Place To Go For Progressives




OH SNAP


----------



## saveliberty

theDoctorisIn said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I worded my answer ambiguously, I apologize. They didn't edit it "accidentally" - but they didn't edit out "under god" because they hate Christians, they did it for time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, because that took a whole 0.33 seconds of air time and they needed to fit another three flags into the piece instead.
> 
> I backed up my comments with a letter NBC.  Can you do the same?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where in that letter did NBC say that they edited out "under god" because they hate Christians?
> 
> Unless I missed something, that doesn't back up your claims at all.
Click to expand...


You did miss something.  The editors wished to highlight patriotism at the price of sacrificing under God.  They got called on it and admitted it was wrong.  Your playing word games at this point and not very well.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

theDoctorisIn said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nowhere in that piece does anyone say it was done "on purpose".
> 
> Have you had any experience with video editing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So they accidentally made the decision.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More accurately, they edited it to fit the time, not realizing the hysterics that would come from it, from rapid, obsessive politic-religious nutjobs.
> 
> The "NBC hates Christians" meme is pretty much the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
Click to expand...


Say 2 words for me  "Under god"

how long did that take 1, 2, maybe 3 seconds?   Way to save that time in a 3+ hour broadcast     Your excuse is like your avatar shit.


----------



## Woyzeck

saveliberty said:


> Woyzeck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> NBC admitted the editing was on purpose, by a small group of decisionmakers, and it was wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hrm? Link please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In a letter it is sending to viewers who complained, NBC says the decision to edit the Pledge of Allegiance in a piece teeing off its U.S. Open Golf coverage was a "bad decision" made by a "small group of people," and that the controversy it created was justifiable.
> 
> From the letter:
> 
> Unfortunately, when producing the piece - which was intended to capitalize on the patriotism of having our national championship played in our nation's capital - a decision was made by a small group of people to edit portions of the Pledge of Allegiance. This was a bad decision.
> 
> NBC Says Cutting Pledge During U.S. Open Was Bad Decision - 2011-06-20 19:09:59 | Broadcasting & Cable
Click to expand...


Quite interesting, and not surprising. Like Doc is saying, at worst they took it out for time, and doesn't indicate anything deserving of the outrage this thread has produced.

They also took out 'one nation', and 'indivisible'. But no one here seems upset enough to make that a legitimate issues.


----------



## Sherry

Flopper said:


> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> During sunday's US Open golf tournament, NBC ran a segment where they showed kids reciting the pledge of allegiance, which was great.   But they edited out the "under God" words, similar to what president Obama himself did awhile back in a speech I think.    They got a lot of blowback from irrate viewers complaining about the omission, so they apologized saying it was not done to upset anyone.
> 
> Well I'm not sure about that, but I am sure it was done intentionally, as did Obama.   I have to question why, surely they know this is going to inflame a lot of people.   And for what?   You know what, I think it comes down to arrogance, an eliteist position of gov't over God.   It's deliberately done with condescension and shows a lack of respect for any other view but thir own.    It's like we don't care what you think, if you don't agree then you're wrong and should be ignored or at least discounted.
> 
> 
> 
> *If it was done intentionally, I doubt NBC would have apologized, which they did.
> 
> "In a statement during the broadcast, NBC commentator Dan Hicks said, "We began our coverage of this final round just about three hours ago and when we did it was our intent to begin the coverage of this U.S. Open Championship with a feature that captured the patriotism of our national championship being held in our nation's capital for the third time.
> "Regrettably, a portion of the Pledge of Allegiance that was in that feature was edited out. It was not done to upset anyone and we'd like to apologize to those of you who were offended by it."
> 
> You righties know this has to be true because this came from Fox News.  More much ado about nothing!
> NBC Apologizes for Omitting 'Under God' From Pledge During U.S. Open Broadcast - FoxNews.com
> Read more: NBC Apologizes for Omitting 'Under God' From Pledge During U.S. Open Broadcast - FoxNews.com*
Click to expand...


Go ahead and give them the benefit of the doubt....but I just think it was smart PR on their part to make such a statement.


----------



## Flopper

Bfgrn said:


> The Pledge of Allegiance
> 
> The Pledge of Allegiance was written in August 1892 by the socialist minister Francis Bellamy (1855-1931). It was originally published in The Youth's Companion on September 8, 1892. Bellamy had hoped that the pledge would be used by citizens in any country.
> 
> In its original form it read:
> 
> "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
> 
> Don't forget the Bellamy salute



Well, Bellamy got his wish.  The Nazis used it.


----------



## Uncensored2008

theDoctorisIn said:


> I worded my answer ambiguously, I apologize. They didn't edit it "accidentally" - but they didn't edit out "under god" because they hate Christians, they did it for time.



ROFL

You can't POSSIBLY have typed that with a straight face....

"I only came in your mouth because I didn't have TIME to pull out - HONEST"


----------



## Dr Grump

This goes under one of those non threads..

I don't sing our national anthem because it mentions god, too..

Each to their own I reckon...


----------



## Flopper

Sherry said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> During sunday's US Open golf tournament, NBC ran a segment where they showed kids reciting the pledge of allegiance, which was great.   But they edited out the "under God" words, similar to what president Obama himself did awhile back in a speech I think.    They got a lot of blowback from irrate viewers complaining about the omission, so they apologized saying it was not done to upset anyone.
> 
> Well I'm not sure about that, but I am sure it was done intentionally, as did Obama.   I have to question why, surely they know this is going to inflame a lot of people.   And for what?   You know what, I think it comes down to arrogance, an eliteist position of gov't over God.   It's deliberately done with condescension and shows a lack of respect for any other view but thir own.    It's like we don't care what you think, if you don't agree then you're wrong and should be ignored or at least discounted.
> 
> 
> 
> *If it was done intentionally, I doubt NBC would have apologized, which they did.
> 
> "In a statement during the broadcast, NBC commentator Dan Hicks said, "We began our coverage of this final round just about three hours ago and when we did it was our intent to begin the coverage of this U.S. Open Championship with a feature that captured the patriotism of our national championship being held in our nation's capital for the third time.
> "Regrettably, a portion of the Pledge of Allegiance that was in that feature was edited out. It was not done to upset anyone and we'd like to apologize to those of you who were offended by it."
> 
> You righties know this has to be true because this came from Fox News.  More much ado about nothing!
> NBC Apologizes for Omitting 'Under God' From Pledge During U.S. Open Broadcast - FoxNews.com
> Read more: NBC Apologizes for Omitting 'Under God' From Pledge During U.S. Open Broadcast - FoxNews.com*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Go ahead and give them the benefit of the doubt....but I just think it was smart PR on their part to make such a statement.
Click to expand...

If they were trying to make a statement by omitting it, then why would they apologize.  That doesn't make sense.


----------



## Dr Grump

martybegan said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pledge of Allegiance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was added by congress, with popular support. Nothing wrong there.
Click to expand...


Doesn't make it right either...freedom from religion and all that.....


----------



## Sherry

Flopper said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> *If it was done intentionally, I doubt NBC would have apologized, which they did.
> 
> "In a statement during the broadcast, NBC commentator Dan Hicks said, "We began our coverage of this final round just about three hours ago and when we did it was our intent to begin the coverage of this U.S. Open Championship with a feature that captured the patriotism of our national championship being held in our nation's capital for the third time.
> "Regrettably, a portion of the Pledge of Allegiance that was in that feature was edited out. It was not done to upset anyone and we'd like to apologize to those of you who were offended by it."
> 
> You righties know this has to be true because this came from Fox News.  More much ado about nothing!
> NBC Apologizes for Omitting 'Under God' From Pledge During U.S. Open Broadcast - FoxNews.com
> Read more: NBC Apologizes for Omitting 'Under God' From Pledge During U.S. Open Broadcast - FoxNews.com*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go ahead and give them the benefit of the doubt....but I just think it was smart PR on their part to make such a statement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If they were trying to make a statement by omitting it, then why would they apologize.  That doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...


To save face....now stop playing dumb.


----------



## jillian

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> So they accidentally made the decision.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More accurately, they edited it to fit the time, not realizing the hysterics that would come from it, from rapid, obsessive politic-religious nutjobs.
> 
> The "NBC hates Christians" meme is pretty much the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Say 2 words for me  "Under god"
> 
> how long did that take 1, 2, maybe 3 seconds?   Way to save that time in a 3+ hour broadcast     Your excuse is like your avatar shit.
Click to expand...


either way.. who cares? other than the religious right?? 

and honestly, i don't care what the religious right thinks.


----------



## theDoctorisIn

Uncensored2008 said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I worded my answer ambiguously, I apologize. They didn't edit it "accidentally" - but they didn't edit out "under god" because they hate Christians, they did it for time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROFL
> 
> You can't POSSIBLY have typed that with a straight face....
> 
> "I only came in your mouth because I didn't have TIME to pull out - HONEST"
Click to expand...


Whether or not you understand the English language is of no consequence to me.


----------



## theDoctorisIn

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you believe that this was a simple editing mistake, you have absolutely no idea of the people running NBC--for that matter television in general.  These people openly admit there hostility for religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NBC is "run" by CEO Steven Burke, a Christian and a Republican.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lets see what MSNBC's CEO has to say about what you just said
> 
> Phil Griffin:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> msnbc ceo phil griffin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phil Griffin: MSNBC Stands For Something Is Really The Place To Go For Progressives
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> OH SNAP
Click to expand...


Except this thread isn't about something that happened on MSNBC, it was something that happened on NBC. 

The context of my post would probably clear things up a little, I'm responding to a very specific comment.


----------



## Dr Grump

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> So they accidentally made the decision.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More accurately, they edited it to fit the time, not realizing the hysterics that would come from it, from rapid, obsessive politic-religious nutjobs.
> 
> The "NBC hates Christians" meme is pretty much the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Say 2 words for me  "Under god"
> 
> how long did that take 1, 2, maybe 3 seconds?   Way to save that time in a 3+ hour broadcast     Your excuse is like your avatar shit.
Click to expand...


Now say Allah Akbar for me and let's say for shits and giggles it is added to the end of the pledge of allegience. Still want to say those two 'little' words?


----------



## theDoctorisIn

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> So they accidentally made the decision.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More accurately, they edited it to fit the time, not realizing the hysterics that would come from it, from rapid, obsessive politic-religious nutjobs.
> 
> The "NBC hates Christians" meme is pretty much the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Say 2 words for me  "Under god"
> 
> how long did that take 1, 2, maybe 3 seconds?   Way to save that time in a 3+ hour broadcast     Your excuse is like your avatar shit.
Click to expand...


I'm disappointed in you, Pilgrim. You're normally a fairly respectful poster, and we've had some good conversations - and now you're just being a asshole.

I'm not making "excuses" - why would I make excuses for something that I couldn't care less about? Even if they did do it on purpose, as part of their secret burning hatred of Christians, I still wouldn't care.

I have a really hard time with Conservatives and Christians and their sick need to be persecuted. 

Anyone with a grip on reality would see that clip, and think "oh, that was edited a bit weird". 

Then there's some of you that immediately jump to WORLDWIDE ANTI-CHRISTIAN CONSPIRACY by ALL THE LIBERALS IN THE WORLD.

And the fact that you don't think 2 or 3 seconds matters when you're editing video further re-enforces my idea that you have no idea what you're talking about here.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Dr Grump said:


> Doesn't make it right either...freedom from religion and all that.....



No one ever offered you freedom from religion, no more than you have freedom from speech. 

The left seeks to silence the opposition, yet the 1st amendment thwarts you.


----------



## Uncensored2008

theDoctorisIn said:


> Whether or not you understand the English language is of no consequence to me.



I understand bullshit equivocation - and THAT is some bullshit equivocating...


----------



## Dr Grump

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't make it right either...freedom from religion and all that.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one ever offered you freedom from religion, no more than you have freedom from speech.
> 
> The left seeks to silence the opposition, yet the 1st amendment thwarts you.
Click to expand...


So I should be forced into religion? What opposition? Are all the churches closed? Has the FCC shut down all the Holy Roller radio and television shows? 

What has the first amendment got to do with forcing me to say "under God" when I don't believe in such a thing? 

If some refuse to say that part of the pledge does that make you 'more' American and 'more' patriotic than those who don't?


----------



## Dr Grump

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> RDD_1210 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So rights are derived from the state? Without the state, we would have no rights?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Without government, who is there to enforce any rights you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Me silly.  We are all endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights to LIFE, LIBERTY, and PROPERTY (AKA Persuit of happiness).
> 
> Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on whats for dinner, liberty is a well armed lamb contesting that outcome. -Benjamin Franklin.
Click to expand...


Only if you believe in a creator. But you don't need to beleive in a creator to have that point of view.

At the end of the day, while the sentiments of both your statements have a nice, Utopian feel to them, the reality is a lot different.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

jillian said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> More accurately, they edited it to fit the time, not realizing the hysterics that would come from it, from rapid, obsessive politic-religious nutjobs.
> 
> The "NBC hates Christians" meme is pretty much the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Say 2 words for me  "Under god"
> 
> how long did that take 1, 2, maybe 3 seconds?   Way to save that time in a 3+ hour broadcast     Your excuse is like your avatar shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> either way.. who cares? other than the religious right??
> 
> and honestly, i don't care what the religious right thinks.
Click to expand...


its ironic your posting here in light of all that


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

Dr Grump said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> More accurately, they edited it to fit the time, not realizing the hysterics that would come from it, from rapid, obsessive politic-religious nutjobs.
> 
> The "NBC hates Christians" meme is pretty much the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Say 2 words for me  "Under god"
> 
> how long did that take 1, 2, maybe 3 seconds?   Way to save that time in a 3+ hour broadcast     Your excuse is like your avatar shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now say Allah Akbar for me and let's say for shits and giggles it is added to the end of the pledge of allegience. Still want to say those two 'little' words?
Click to expand...


it already says "under god (allah is god silly)".

Allah akbar, or god is the greatest, is not the same as saying under god.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

theDoctorisIn said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> NBC is "run" by CEO Steven Burke, a Christian and a Republican.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see what MSNBC's CEO has to say about what you just said
> 
> Phil Griffin:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> msnbc ceo phil griffin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phil Griffin: MSNBC Stands For Something Is Really The Place To Go For Progressives
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> OH SNAP
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except this thread isn't about something that happened on MSNBC, it was something that happened on NBC.
> 
> The context of my post would probably clear things up a little, I'm responding to a very specific comment.
Click to expand...


i just think your excuses sucked and my response to this one was fitting, it sucked too LOL.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

theDoctorisIn said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> More accurately, they edited it to fit the time, not realizing the hysterics that would come from it, from rapid, obsessive politic-religious nutjobs.
> 
> The "NBC hates Christians" meme is pretty much the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Say 2 words for me  "Under god"
> 
> how long did that take 1, 2, maybe 3 seconds?   Way to save that time in a 3+ hour broadcast     Your excuse is like your avatar shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm disappointed in you, Pilgrim. You're normally a fairly respectful poster, and we've had some good conversations - and now you're just being a asshole.
> 
> I'm not making "excuses" - why would I make excuses for something that I couldn't care less about? Even if they did do it on purpose, as part of their secret burning hatred of Christians, I still wouldn't care.
> 
> I have a really hard time with Conservatives and Christians and their sick need to be persecuted.
> 
> Anyone with a grip on reality would see that clip, and think "oh, that was edited a bit weird".
> 
> Then there's some of you that immediately jump to WORLDWIDE ANTI-CHRISTIAN CONSPIRACY by ALL THE LIBERALS IN THE WORLD.
> 
> And the fact that you don't think 2 or 3 seconds matters when you're editing video further re-enforces my idea that you have no idea what you're talking about here.
Click to expand...


yeah but your avatar is literally shit on a flag, i was trying to be funny not a dick to you.  I'm sorry that offended you.

That being said it takes, at the very most, 2 seconds to say under god and there were at least 10 seconds of total pause with no sound in that clip so your reasoning that it had to be edited for time seemed very shallow to me so I called it out.  Especially in light of how you presented it in such a way as to insult those who were bothered by it being left out.


----------



## manifold

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> You have rights granted by virtue of being a human, not by virtue of being an american...



I'm sure there are at least a few 'detainees' at GITMO that would sure love to believe that.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

Dr Grump said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RDD_1210 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Without government, who is there to enforce any rights you have?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me silly.  We are all endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights to LIFE, LIBERTY, and PROPERTY (AKA Persuit of happiness).
> 
> Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on whats for dinner, liberty is a well armed lamb contesting that outcome. -Benjamin Franklin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only if you believe in a creator. But you don't need to beleive in a creator to have that point of view.
> 
> At the end of the day, while the sentiments of both your statements have a nice, Utopian feel to them, the reality is a lot different.
Click to expand...


You believe you were created too......i mean your parents had sex and made you right?  

See what im saying when i quote the delcaration of independance now?  We are given our rights by someone OUTSIDE of the government, not the govt itself.   

And my comment wasn't utopian at all, having to defend your rights with force to protect them doesn't seem all that utopian or fun to me....but i will do it if im pushed into it by someone trying to take away the rights I was born with.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

theDoctorisIn said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Except this thread isn't about something that happened on MSNBC, it was something that happened on NBC.
> 
> The context of my post would probably clear things up a little, I'm responding to a very specific comment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i just think your excuses sucked and my response to this one was fitting, it sucked too LOL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know, I always thought you were a reasonable, respectful person, even though we disagree on most things.
> 
> I guess I was wrong. Carry on being a dick then.
Click to expand...


i just said my response sucked too      Im not trying to be  a dick its true, those 2 posts i quoted were low ball.


----------



## theDoctorisIn

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Say 2 words for me  "Under god"
> 
> how long did that take 1, 2, maybe 3 seconds?   Way to save that time in a 3+ hour broadcast     Your excuse is like your avatar shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm disappointed in you, Pilgrim. You're normally a fairly respectful poster, and we've had some good conversations - and now you're just being a asshole.
> 
> I'm not making "excuses" - why would I make excuses for something that I couldn't care less about? Even if they did do it on purpose, as part of their secret burning hatred of Christians, I still wouldn't care.
> 
> I have a really hard time with Conservatives and Christians and their sick need to be persecuted.
> 
> Anyone with a grip on reality would see that clip, and think "oh, that was edited a bit weird".
> 
> Then there's some of you that immediately jump to WORLDWIDE ANTI-CHRISTIAN CONSPIRACY by ALL THE LIBERALS IN THE WORLD.
> 
> And the fact that you don't think 2 or 3 seconds matters when you're editing video further re-enforces my idea that you have no idea what you're talking about here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yeah but your avatar is literally shit on a flag, i was trying to be funny not a dick to you.  I'm sorry that offended you.
> 
> That being said it takes, at the very most, 2 seconds to say under god and there were at least 10 seconds of total pause with no sound in that clip so your reasoning that it had to be edited for time seemed very shallow to me so I called it out.  Especially in light of how you presented it in such a way as to insult those who were bothered by it being left out.
Click to expand...


Apologies, I'm a bit touchy this afternoon, I haven't been having a great day.

I don't believe I was "insulting" people who were bothered that it was being left out, I guess I'm "insulting" the people that think it was all part of the MASSIVE ANTI-CHRISTIAN CONSPIRACY.

If you were upset that it was edited out, that's fine. I don't understand it, but I don't have a problem with it. I have a problem with that being extrapolated that "NBC did it on purpose because everyone at NBC hates Christians".

This whole "persecuted Christians" thing is the fucking retarded.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

manifold said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have rights granted by virtue of being a human, not by virtue of being an american...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure there are at least a few 'detainees' at GITMO that would sure love to believe that.
Click to expand...


give them a gun and i bet you they fight for it too.


----------



## theDoctorisIn

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> i just think your excuses sucked and my response to this one was fitting, it sucked too LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know, I always thought you were a reasonable, respectful person, even though we disagree on most things.
> 
> I guess I was wrong. Carry on being a dick then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i just said my response sucked too      Im not trying to be  a dick its true, those 2 posts i quoted were low ball.
Click to expand...


My comment about the CEO of NBC was directly in response to this claim:


Google said:


> If you believe that this was a simple editing mistake, you have absolutely no idea of the people running NBC--for that matter television in general.  These people openly admit there hostility for religion.



I was simply pointing out that it's unlikely that a devout Christian is "openly hostile for religion"

As for the rest of my post, apologies again. I'm having a bad day, and am particularly touchy.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

theDoctorisIn said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm disappointed in you, Pilgrim. You're normally a fairly respectful poster, and we've had some good conversations - and now you're just being a asshole.
> 
> I'm not making "excuses" - why would I make excuses for something that I couldn't care less about? Even if they did do it on purpose, as part of their secret burning hatred of Christians, I still wouldn't care.
> 
> I have a really hard time with Conservatives and Christians and their sick need to be persecuted.
> 
> Anyone with a grip on reality would see that clip, and think "oh, that was edited a bit weird".
> 
> Then there's some of you that immediately jump to WORLDWIDE ANTI-CHRISTIAN CONSPIRACY by ALL THE LIBERALS IN THE WORLD.
> 
> And the fact that you don't think 2 or 3 seconds matters when you're editing video further re-enforces my idea that you have no idea what you're talking about here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah but your avatar is literally shit on a flag, i was trying to be funny not a dick to you.  I'm sorry that offended you.
> 
> That being said it takes, at the very most, 2 seconds to say under god and there were at least 10 seconds of total pause with no sound in that clip so your reasoning that it had to be edited for time seemed very shallow to me so I called it out.  Especially in light of how you presented it in such a way as to insult those who were bothered by it being left out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apologies, I'm a bit touchy this afternoon, I haven't been having a great day.
> 
> I don't believe I was "insulting" people who were bothered that it was being left out, I guess I'm "insulting" the people that think it was all part of the MASSIVE ANTI-CHRISTIAN CONSPIRACY.
> 
> If you were upset that it was edited out, that's fine. I don't understand it, but I don't have a problem with it. I have a problem with that being extrapolated that "NBC did it on purpose because everyone at NBC hates Christians".
> 
> This whole "persecuted Christians" thing is the fucking retarded.
Click to expand...


well im not a christian so im not running on that.  Im just bored and your post really did seem insulting to those who are bothered by it.  I think its stupid that they left it out but they apologized so what's left to do but accept it and move on, right?


----------



## Dr Grump

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> You believe you were created too......i mean your parents had sex and made you right?
> 
> See what im saying when i quote the delcaration of independance now?  We are given our rights by someone OUTSIDE of the government, not the govt itself.
> 
> And my comment wasn't utopian at all, having to defend your rights with force to protect them doesn't seem all that utopian or fun to me....but i will do it if im pushed into it by someone trying to take away the rights I was born with.



Aye, but I wasn't created by a God and therefore if I have to say a pledge I refuse be under his/her bow.

Your second paragraph is contentious at best. I know a lot of people feel that way, and interpret your founding fathers that way. I know others who disagree...

what rights were you born with? Who decides what they are?


----------



## Shogun

so, wasn't the original version sans "under god" too?


where are the fucking originalists now?!?>!


----------



## martybegan

Dr Grump said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't make it right either...freedom from religion and all that.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one ever offered you freedom from religion, no more than you have freedom from speech.
> 
> The left seeks to silence the opposition, yet the 1st amendment thwarts you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So I should be forced into religion? What opposition? Are all the churches closed? Has the FCC shut down all the Holy Roller radio and television shows?
> 
> What has the first amendment got to do with forcing me to say "under God" when I don't believe in such a thing?
> 
> If some refuse to say that part of the pledge does that make you 'more' American and 'more' patriotic than those who don't?
Click to expand...


Its not about forcing you to say "under God", its the possibility that some idiot at NBC decided to leave it out to not offend certain people, and by certain people I mean our more evangelical atheists, who cringe at the sight of a cross, swoon at the mention of Jesus, and go into convulsions when in the presence of s minorah.


----------



## Dr Grump

martybegan said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one ever offered you freedom from religion, no more than you have freedom from speech.
> 
> The left seeks to silence the opposition, yet the 1st amendment thwarts you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I should be forced into religion? What opposition? Are all the churches closed? Has the FCC shut down all the Holy Roller radio and television shows?
> 
> What has the first amendment got to do with forcing me to say "under God" when I don't believe in such a thing?
> 
> If some refuse to say that part of the pledge does that make you 'more' American and 'more' patriotic than those who don't?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its not about forcing you to say "under God", its the possibility that some idiot at NBC decided to leave it out to not offend certain people, and by certain people I mean our more evangelical atheists, who cringe at the sight of a cross, swoon at the mention of Jesus, and go into convulsions when in the presence of s minorah.
Click to expand...


What's wrong with leaving it out? Religion should be kept in churches, mosques, temples and synagogues. Out of schools, baseball games, or any other past time for that matter...


----------



## martybegan

Dr Grump said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I should be forced into religion? What opposition? Are all the churches closed? Has the FCC shut down all the Holy Roller radio and television shows?
> 
> What has the first amendment got to do with forcing me to say "under God" when I don't believe in such a thing?
> 
> If some refuse to say that part of the pledge does that make you 'more' American and 'more' patriotic than those who don't?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its not about forcing you to say "under God", its the possibility that some idiot at NBC decided to leave it out to not offend certain people, and by certain people I mean our more evangelical atheists, who cringe at the sight of a cross, swoon at the mention of Jesus, and go into convulsions when in the presence of s minorah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's wrong with leaving it out? Religion should be kept in churches, mosques, temples and synagogues. Out of schools, baseball games, or any other past time for that matter...
Click to expand...


The only restriction on religon in the country is that the government cannot endorse it. If people want to pray at a baseball game, they can, and they should be able to. And you should be secure enough in your own beliefs to not be offended by it. 

Thats like saying atheism should be kept in "freethinkers" meetings, or smarmy discussion groups at overpriced coffee shops. 

I know that the line is overplayed, but freedom of religion is not freedom from religion.


----------



## Dr Grump

martybegan said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its not about forcing you to say "under God", its the possibility that some idiot at NBC decided to leave it out to not offend certain people, and by certain people I mean our more evangelical atheists, who cringe at the sight of a cross, swoon at the mention of Jesus, and go into convulsions when in the presence of s minorah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's wrong with leaving it out? Religion should be kept in churches, mosques, temples and synagogues. Out of schools, baseball games, or any other past time for that matter...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only restriction on religon in the country is that the government cannot endorse it. If people want to pray at a baseball game, they can, and they should be able to. And you should be secure enough in your own beliefs to not be offended by it.
> 
> Thats like saying atheism should be kept in "freethinkers" meetings, or smarmy discussion groups at overpriced coffee shops.
> 
> I know that the line is overplayed, but freedom of religion is not freedom from religion.
Click to expand...


Absolutely they can pray at a game - just don't ask me to, or bow my head. And don't get all smarmy and say that those who don't pray are somehow a lesser [insert nationality] here, or not as patriotic. Now, I'm not saying you think that, but a lot of people do.

I think you should be as free from religion as you can without penalty of favour. It comes back to Pilgrim's piece about pursuit of happiness etc....


----------



## oreo

Wiseacre said:


> During sunday's US Open golf tournament, NBC ran a segment where they showed kids reciting the pledge of allegiance, which was great.   But they edited out the "under God" words, similar to what president Obama himself did awhile back in a speech I think.    They got a lot of blowback from irrate viewers complaining about the omission, so they apologized saying it was not done to upset anyone.
> 
> Well I'm not sure about that, but I am sure it was done intentionally, as did Obama.   I have to question why, surely they know this is going to inflame a lot of people.   And for what?   You know what, I think it comes down to arrogance, an eliteist position of gov't over God.   It's deliberately done with condescension and shows a lack of respect for any other view but thir own.    It's like we don't care what you think, if you don't agree then you're wrong and should be ignored or at least discounted.




Here again we have the media NBC--and their affiliate MS-NBC--BTW (liberals favorite chanel) which is also known as the Obama media networks --trying to "rewrite" the Pledge of Alligance for us.


----------



## Dr Grump

oreo said:


> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> During sunday's US Open golf tournament, NBC ran a segment where they showed kids reciting the pledge of allegiance, which was great.   But they edited out the "under God" words, similar to what president Obama himself did awhile back in a speech I think.    They got a lot of blowback from irrate viewers complaining about the omission, so they apologized saying it was not done to upset anyone.
> 
> Well I'm not sure about that, but I am sure it was done intentionally, as did Obama.   I have to question why, surely they know this is going to inflame a lot of people.   And for what?   You know what, I think it comes down to arrogance, an eliteist position of gov't over God.   It's deliberately done with condescension and shows a lack of respect for any other view but thir own.    It's like we don't care what you think, if you don't agree then you're wrong and should be ignored or at least discounted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here again we have the media NBC--and their affiliate MS-NBC--BTW (liberals favorite chanel) which is also known as the Obama media networks --trying to "rewrite" the Pledge of Alligance for us.
> 
> View attachment 13774
Click to expand...


It's already been rewritten once to include under god, nothing wrong with rewriting it again....


----------



## eots

Wiseacre said:


> During sunday's US Open golf tournament, NBC ran a segment where they showed kids reciting the pledge of allegiance, which was great.   But they edited out the "under God" words, similar to what president Obama himself did awhile back in a speech I think.    They got a lot of blowback from irrate viewers complaining about the omission, so they apologized saying it was not done to upset anyone.
> 
> Well I'm not sure about that, but I am sure it was done intentionally, as did Obama.   I have to question why, surely they know this is going to inflame a lot of people.   And for what?   You know what, I think it comes down to arrogance, an eliteist position of gov't over God.   It's deliberately done with condescension and shows a lack of respect for any other view but thir own.    It's like we don't care what you think, if you don't agree then you're wrong and should be ignored or at least discounted.



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZIDvLJhSOE&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - &#x202a;U.S. Open, NBC cuts &#39;Under God&#39; from Pledge of Allegiance&#x202c;&rlm;[/ame]


----------



## JohnA

Wiseacre said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> During sunday's US Open golf tournament, NBC ran a segment where they showed kids reciting the pledge of allegiance, which was great.   But they edited out the "under God" words, similar to what president Obama himself did awhile back in a speech I think.    They got a lot of blowback from irrate viewers complaining about the omission, so they apologized saying it was not done to upset anyone.
> 
> Well I'm not sure about that, but I am sure it was done intentionally, as did Obama.   I have to question why, surely they know this is going to inflame a lot of people.   And for what?   You know what, I think it comes down to arrogance, an eliteist position of gov't over God.   It's deliberately done with condescension and shows a lack of respect for any other view but thir own.    It's like we don't care what you think, if you don't agree then you're wrong and should be ignored or at least discounted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i don't recall the president doing that. what i do recall is him not putting his hand over his heart during the national anthem (something i've never done, but there ya go).
> 
> as for the words "under G-d", they were never in the pledge until the McCarthy Era because that's how the commie hunters wanted to weed out commies.
> 
> I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over it either way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Below was the incident I had in mind, got it wrong specifically but not generally.   Is it a big deal, the NBC thing or this?   In the overall scope of things we have to deal with today, probably not.    I don't care if Obama is religious or not, although I will say I don't like the hypocrisy of it, saying one thing and being another.    But don't be editing the Pledge, or misquoting the Declaration on purpose to make a poliical point.   And don't be telling me is was a mistake, these people know damn well what the words are and they should get it right or not say it at all.
> 
> 
> Back in Sept 2010:
> 
> File this under the pseudo-Christian column. President Obama concluded his speech at this weeks Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute gala with,
> 
> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, endowed with certain inalienable rights, life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
> 
> The U.S. Declaration of Independence reads,
> 
> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed *by their Creator *with certain inalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
Click to expand...

 YES IT DOES   but the word creator  does not nessasarily mean the christian god 
 remember  the fondling fathers were mostly deist .  the word can mean differant  things  to differant people the problem arizes when the christians claim every time the word god is used it applies to there diety .

 i  in my work  recite the pledge a lot never say god either leave the words out ( takes some practice) or say  *under dog*  eishenhower  bastardized it needs to be reversed a sto the words as were written


----------



## JohnA

martybegan said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its not about forcing you to say "under God", its the possibility that some idiot at NBC decided to leave it out to not offend certain people, and by certain people I mean our more evangelical atheists, who cringe at the sight of a cross, swoon at the mention of Jesus, and go into convulsions when in the presence of s minorah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's wrong with leaving it out? Religion should be kept in churches, mosques, temples and synagogues. Out of schools, baseball games, or any other past time for that matter...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only restriction on religon in the country is that the government cannot endorse it. If people want to pray at a baseball game, they can, and they should be able to. And you should be secure enough in your own beliefs to not be offended by it.
> 
> Thats like saying atheism should be kept in "freethinkers" meetings, or smarmy discussion groups at overpriced coffee shops.
> 
> I know that the line is overplayed, but freedom of religion is not freedom from religion.
Click to expand...

 why not as lots of folks do acknowledge a 2 min silence every citizen  can then pray  to whomever they choice  jesus ,the tooth fairy ,flying spaghetti monster . or nobody at all 
 why is that unexceptable to chrisitans  .

at sports yes those that WISH  should be able to pray  praying has never hurt  anybody  .the hurt comes when a person  is forced to say or do something they have no desire to do ./say 

 when i take a oath i AFFIRM   no hand on bible no god word  .
those that  want to use the god word are quite welcome  to  swear  on  the bible  and say  so help me god 
 what  harm  does  either choice  do to the other  ???? 

  the problem as i see it is christians are not tolerant of the  views of others ,whether atheist are in the  minority or not we   are still entitled to  our  opinion  and the freedom to express it .


----------



## theHawk

Wiseacre said:


> During sunday's US Open golf tournament, NBC ran a segment where they showed kids reciting the pledge of allegiance, which was great.   But they edited out the "under God" words, similar to what president Obama himself did awhile back in a speech I think.    They got a lot of blowback from irrate viewers complaining about the omission, so they apologized saying it was not done to upset anyone.
> 
> Well I'm not sure about that, but I am sure it was done intentionally, as did Obama.   I have to question why, surely they know this is going to inflame a lot of people.   And for what?   You know what, I think it comes down to arrogance, an eliteist position of gov't over God.   It's deliberately done with condescension and shows a lack of respect for any other view but thir own.    It's like we don't care what you think, if you don't agree then you're wrong and should be ignored or at least discounted.



They we're probably just practicing their pillar belief of "Separation of Church and State", themselves of course being "The State Run Media".


----------



## Two Thumbs

Look, NBC is a lefty media outlet.

They assumed most people that watch think like them.  [that is what happens when you hire people that think the same]

They were wrong

The public called them on it and they apologized.

If anyone thinks it was done by mistake, you're a hack.

remember, libtards in AZ wanna form, divide, their own state.


----------



## Dr Grump

Two Thumbs said:


> Look, NBC is a lefty media outlet.
> 
> They assumed most people that watch think like them.  [that is what happens when you hire people that think the same]
> 
> They were wrong
> 
> The public called them on it and they apologized.
> 
> If anyone thinks it was done by mistake, you're a hack.
> 
> remember, libtards in AZ wanna form, divide, their own state.



Don't care if it was done by mistake or not. I'm glad they left it out....


----------



## jillian

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> well im not a christian so im not running on that.  Im just bored and your post really did seem insulting to those who are bothered by it.  I think its stupid that they left it out but they apologized so what's left to do but accept it and move on, right?



you just felt like pushing the christian victim button??


----------



## martybegan

Dr Grump said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's wrong with leaving it out? Religion should be kept in churches, mosques, temples and synagogues. Out of schools, baseball games, or any other past time for that matter...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only restriction on religon in the country is that the government cannot endorse it. If people want to pray at a baseball game, they can, and they should be able to. And you should be secure enough in your own beliefs to not be offended by it.
> 
> Thats like saying atheism should be kept in "freethinkers" meetings, or smarmy discussion groups at overpriced coffee shops.
> 
> I know that the line is overplayed, but freedom of religion is not freedom from religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely they can pray at a game - just don't ask me to, or bow my head. And don't get all smarmy and say that those who don't pray are somehow a lesser [insert nationality] here, or not as patriotic. Now, I'm not saying you think that, but a lot of people do.
> 
> I think you should be as free from religion as you can without penalty of favour. It comes back to Pilgrim's piece about pursuit of happiness etc....
Click to expand...


In the case of NBC it wasnt about asking you to go along with it, its that in a coincidence, the one contraversial line was for some reason left out.


----------



## Dr Grump

martybegan said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only restriction on religon in the country is that the government cannot endorse it. If people want to pray at a baseball game, they can, and they should be able to. And you should be secure enough in your own beliefs to not be offended by it.
> 
> Thats like saying atheism should be kept in "freethinkers" meetings, or smarmy discussion groups at overpriced coffee shops.
> 
> I know that the line is overplayed, but freedom of religion is not freedom from religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely they can pray at a game - just don't ask me to, or bow my head. And don't get all smarmy and say that those who don't pray are somehow a lesser [insert nationality] here, or not as patriotic. Now, I'm not saying you think that, but a lot of people do.
> 
> I think you should be as free from religion as you can without penalty of favour. It comes back to Pilgrim's piece about pursuit of happiness etc....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In the case of NBC it wasnt about asking you to go along with it, its that in a coincidence, the one contraversial line was for some reason left out.
Click to expand...


Not a bad thing, either...


----------



## Two Thumbs

Dr Grump said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look, NBC is a lefty media outlet.
> 
> They assumed most people that watch think like them.  [that is what happens when you hire people that think the same]
> 
> They were wrong
> 
> The public called them on it and they apologized.
> 
> If anyone thinks it was done by mistake, you're a hack.
> 
> remember, libtards in AZ wanna form, divide, their own state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't care if it was done by mistake or not. I'm glad they left it out....
Click to expand...


Then your hate for people of faith has over come your ability to reason.


----------



## peach174

JohnA said:


> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> i don't recall the president doing that. what i do recall is him not putting his hand over his heart during the national anthem (something i've never done, but there ya go).
> 
> as for the words "under G-d", they were never in the pledge until the McCarthy Era because that's how the commie hunters wanted to weed out commies.
> 
> I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over it either way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Below was the incident I had in mind, got it wrong specifically but not generally.   Is it a big deal, the NBC thing or this?   In the overall scope of things we have to deal with today, probably not.    I don't care if Obama is religious or not, although I will say I don't like the hypocrisy of it, saying one thing and being another.    But don't be editing the Pledge, or misquoting the Declaration on purpose to make a political point.   And don't be telling me is was a mistake, these people know damn well what the words are and they should get it right or not say it at all.
> 
> 
> Back in Sept 2010:
> 
> File this under the pseudo-Christian column. President Obama concluded his speech at this week&#8217;s Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute gala with,
> 
> &#8220;We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, endowed with certain inalienable rights, life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness.&#8221;
> 
> The U.S. Declaration of Independence reads,
> 
> &#8220;We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed *by their Creator *with certain inalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.&#8221;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> YES IT DOES   but the word creator  does not necessarily mean the Christian god
> remember  the fondling fathers were mostly deist .  the word can mean different  things  to different people the problem arizes when the Christians claim every time the word god is used it applies to there Deity .
> 
> i  in my work  recite the pledge a lot never say god either leave the words out ( takes some practice) or say  *under dog*  eishenhower  bastardized it needs to be reversed a sto the words as were written
Click to expand...


The majority of our founding father's were Christian's. They were not deist's. Even the few who were deist's proclaimed of an active God.

http://www.patheos.com/Resources/Ad...hers-Were-Not-Deists-John-Fea-02-02-2011.html

The creator falls under Christians, Jews and Muslims, as many other type of religions do.
You have the right in this nation to drop the word under God or substitute it. But the majority of this nation is religious and those of you who don't believe, do not have the right to take those words out.

This is political correctness run amok again.


----------



## jillian

Two Thumbs said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look, NBC is a lefty media outlet.
> 
> They assumed most people that watch think like them.  [that is what happens when you hire people that think the same]
> 
> They were wrong
> 
> The public called them on it and they apologized.
> 
> If anyone thinks it was done by mistake, you're a hack.
> 
> remember, libtards in AZ wanna form, divide, their own state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't care if it was done by mistake or not. I'm glad they left it out....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then your hate for people of faith has over come your ability to reason.
Click to expand...


how is not wanting to be subjected to religion the same as hatred for people of faith?


----------



## jillian

peach174 said:


> JohnA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> Below was the incident I had in mind, got it wrong specifically but not generally.   Is it a big deal, the NBC thing or this?   In the overall scope of things we have to deal with today, probably not.    I don't care if Obama is religious or not, although I will say I don't like the hypocrisy of it, saying one thing and being another.    But don't be editing the Pledge, or misquoting the Declaration on purpose to make a political point.   And don't be telling me is was a mistake, these people know damn well what the words are and they should get it right or not say it at all.
> 
> 
> Back in Sept 2010:
> 
> File this under the pseudo-Christian column. President Obama concluded his speech at this weeks Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute gala with,
> 
> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, endowed with certain inalienable rights, life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
> 
> The U.S. Declaration of Independence reads,
> 
> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed *by their Creator *with certain inalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
> 
> 
> 
> YES IT DOES   but the word creator  does not necessarily mean the Christian god
> remember  the fondling fathers were mostly deist .  the word can mean different  things  to different people the problem arizes when the Christians claim every time the word god is used it applies to there Deity .
> 
> i  in my work  recite the pledge a lot never say god either leave the words out ( takes some practice) or say  *under dog*  eishenhower  bastardized it needs to be reversed a sto the words as were written
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The majority of our founding father's were Christian's. They were not deist's. Even the few who were deist's proclaimed of an active God.
> 
> The Founding Fathers Were Not Deists
> 
> The creator falls under Christians, Jews and Muslims, as many other type of religions do.
> You have the right in this nation to drop the word under God or substitute it. But the majority of this nation is religious and those of you who don't believe, do not have the right to take those words out.
> 
> This is political correctness run amok again.
Click to expand...


actually, most of the founding fathers were deists who had a belief in a higher power, but not necessarily in christian dogma. 

most of the founding fathers were also slave owners. 

just because it was done in the 1700's doesn't make it necessarily right.

and "under g-d" was not in the pledge prior to the 1950's so they clearly never intended that.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

jillian said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> well im not a christian so im not running on that.  Im just bored and your post really did seem insulting to those who are bothered by it.  I think its stupid that they left it out but they apologized so what's left to do but accept it and move on, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you just felt like pushing the christian victim button??
Click to expand...


No I felt like calling out someone who, like many in this thread, unfairly attacked those who were offended by what NBC appeared to do intentionally.

Like I said they apologized which is admitting they were wrong so its time to move on.  If they do it again then make a big deal.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

jillian said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't care if it was done by mistake or not. I'm glad they left it out....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then your hate for people of faith has over come your ability to reason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> how is not wanting to be subjected to religion the same as hatred for people of faith?
Click to expand...


Who is forcing you to say under god when you say the pledge?  
You do realize this is America and you can say  "one nation, under jillian" instead if you want right?  or even do what NBC did and say nothing.

Why do you want to infringe on what other people have enjoyed as the pledge for the last 60 years?

i hope you answer those directly.


----------



## Two Thumbs

jillian said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't care if it was done by mistake or not. I'm glad they left it out....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then your hate for people of faith has over come your ability to reason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> how is not wanting to be subjected to religion the same as hatred for people of faith?
Click to expand...


No one is, was or has subjected any one to religion in a very very very long time.

Freedom of, not from religion

"under god, indivisible" is not going to harm anyone.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

Two Thumbs said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then your hate for people of faith has over come your ability to reason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how is not wanting to be subjected to religion the same as hatred for people of faith?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No one is, was or has subjected any one to religion in a very very very long time.
> 
> Freedom of, not from religion
> 
> "under god, indivisible" is not going to harm anyone.
Click to expand...


And its not illegal to NOT say it if you dont want to .


----------



## manifold

Shogun said:


> so, wasn't the original version sans "under god" too?
> 
> 
> where are the fucking originalists now?!?>!




Yes, 'under god' was added during the cold war to help combat those godless commies.

A bad idea then, made even worse now as thumper dipshits wield it to try to tie an American's patriotism to his faith in God...  as the Founding Fathers roll over in their graves.


----------



## Two Thumbs

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> how is not wanting to be subjected to religion the same as hatred for people of faith?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one is, was or has subjected any one to religion in a very very very long time.
> 
> Freedom of, not from religion
> 
> "under god, indivisible" is not going to harm anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And its not illegal to NOT say it if you dont want to .
Click to expand...


There was a ruling that made it clear that you didn't have to say it or even stand when it was being said.  I think it was the mormons or later day saints that considered it idolatry.  [even before "Under god" was added]


----------



## manifold

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> No I felt like calling out someone who, like many in this thread, unfairly attacked those who were offended by what NBC appeared to do intentionally.



Anyone who was offended by it deserves the be called out for being the hypersensitive douchewagon they obviously are.  Oh noes, my faith in God is so tenuous that I'm offended every time it isn't validated by the media. 




PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Like I said they apologized which is admitting they were wrong so its time to move on.



I didn't read/hear their apology.  But I know for a fact that an apology doesn't necessarily equal an admission of being 'wrong'.  For example, "I'm sorry my remarks offended you" is not an admission of being wrong.


----------



## Two Thumbs

FYI;  "under god" does not come from the Founders, it's based on Lincolns Gettysburg address.

Some preacher in Il got the Knights of Columbus to copy his version [basically, they used the wrong version of the pledge] and it spred from there until Ike pushed the change through Congress.

I think the only people required to say it are immagrants as part of becoming citizens.  Once you are a citizen, you never have to say it again.


----------



## manifold

Two Thumbs said:


> I think the only people required to say it are immagrants as part of becoming citizens.  Once you are a citizen, you never have to say it again.



So why the faux-rage over what NBC did?


----------



## del

manifold said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the only people required to say it are immagrants as part of becoming citizens.  Once you are a citizen, you never have to say it again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So why the faux-rage over what NBC did?
Click to expand...


wiener quit

whatcha gonna do?


----------



## manifold

del said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the only people required to say it are immagrants as part of becoming citizens.  Once you are a citizen, you never have to say it again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So why the faux-rage over what NBC did?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> wiener quit
> 
> whatcha gonna do?
Click to expand...


I guess they could start pumping the tires on the new log cabin republican that just entered the 2012 race.


----------



## saveliberty

manifold said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the only people required to say it are immagrants as part of becoming citizens.  Once you are a citizen, you never have to say it again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So why the faux-rage over what NBC did?
Click to expand...


If your going to say it, say it as it is currently accepted.  Why does NBC want to separate patriotism from religion?  The two have a unique relationship from the founding of this nation to present day.


----------



## del

manifold said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> So why the faux-rage over what NBC did?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wiener quit
> 
> whatcha gonna do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess they could start pumping the tires on the new log cabin republican that just entered the 2012 race.
Click to expand...


----------



## Two Thumbs

manifold said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the only people required to say it are immagrants as part of becoming citizens.  Once you are a citizen, you never have to say it again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So why the faux-rage over what NBC did?
Click to expand...


If you are going to use The Pledge, you should use the whole thing, or be called out for being an asshat.

Americans are deeply traditional, and you don't fuck with peoples traditions with pissing a lot of people off.

Ever not have turkey on Thanksgiving?


----------



## manifold

del said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> del said:
> 
> 
> 
> wiener quit
> 
> whatcha gonna do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess they could start pumping the tires on the new log cabin republican that just entered the 2012 race.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


There has only ever been one good guinea goaltender, and his name was Tony Esposito.

True story


----------



## del

Two Thumbs said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the only people required to say it are immagrants as part of becoming citizens.  Once you are a citizen, you never have to say it again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So why the faux-rage over what NBC did?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you are going to use The Pledge, you should use the whole thing, or be called out for being an asshat.
> 
> Americans are deeply traditional, and you don't fuck with peoples traditions with pissing a lot of people off.
> 
> Ever not have turkey on Thanksgiving?
Click to expand...


yeah, one year i had steak. it was good.

i'm a commie, though, so that might have affected how i felt


----------



## manifold

Two Thumbs said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the only people required to say it are immagrants as part of becoming citizens.  Once you are a citizen, you never have to say it again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So why the faux-rage over what NBC did?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you are going to use The Pledge, you should use the whole thing, or be called out for being an asshat.
> 
> Americans are deeply traditional, and you don't fuck with peoples traditions with pissing a lot of people off.
> 
> Ever not have turkey on Thanksgiving?
Click to expand...


A tradition dating all the way back to the cold war.  My oh my. 

Key takeaway from all this:  Obviously people have it easy when they have time to whine about stupid shit like this.


----------



## saveliberty

I find it interesting that someone who finds getting offended an impossibility, seems offended by those who can be offended.


----------



## Two Thumbs

del said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> So why the faux-rage over what NBC did?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you are going to use The Pledge, you should use the whole thing, or be called out for being an asshat.
> 
> Americans are deeply traditional, and you don't fuck with peoples traditions with pissing a lot of people off.
> 
> Ever not have turkey on Thanksgiving?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yeah, one year i had steak. it was good.
> 
> i'm a commie, though, so that might have affected how i felt
Click to expand...


Eating steak is as American as apple pie and hotdogs.

mmmm  turkey stuffed with hotdogs 



Thanks, kinda proves my point about traditions.  

Counting you, that makes one person that I know, didn't have turkey one year.


----------



## manifold

saveliberty said:


> I find it interesting that someone who finds getting offended an impossibility, seems offended by those who can be offended.



So you don't just manufacture faux-rage I see.  You also manufacture bullshit.

But whatcha gonna do?


----------



## saveliberty

manifold said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find it interesting that someone who finds getting offended an impossibility, seems offended by those who can be offended.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you don't just manufacture faux-rage I see.  You also manufacture bullshit.
> 
> But whatcha gonna do?
Click to expand...


Are you that narrow minded to think no one can be offended by things you are not offended by?  If it isn't a big deal, why do you spend multiple posts attacking it?  No, I think we will just see you for what you are and laugh at your rants.


----------



## Two Thumbs

manifold said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> So why the faux-rage over what NBC did?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you are going to use The Pledge, you should use the whole thing, or be called out for being an asshat.
> 
> Americans are deeply traditional, and you don't fuck with peoples traditions with pissing a lot of people off.
> 
> Ever not have turkey on Thanksgiving?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A tradition dating all the way back to the cold war.  My oh my.
> 
> Key takeaway from all this:  Obviously people have it easy when they have time to whine about stupid shit like this.
Click to expand...


for the latest version, from the mid 50's.  Or, for most of us, out entire lives.  However The Pledge goes back to the mid 1800's  [1851, I think] so it's an old tradition.

and you're here whining about people whining, just sayin


----------



## manifold

saveliberty said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find it interesting that someone who finds getting offended an impossibility, seems offended by those who can be offended.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you don't just manufacture faux-rage I see.  You also manufacture bullshit.
> 
> But whatcha gonna do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you that narrow minded to think no one can be offended by things you are not offended by?  If it isn't a big deal, why do you spend multiple posts attacking it?  No, I think we will just see you for what you are and laugh at your rants.
Click to expand...


Experience informs me that many many pussies, such as yourself, can be offended by a whole miriad of things that are of no consequence to them.  And the only way to toughen you pussies up is to keep offending you in the hopes that you'll grow some skin... and maybe some balls.


----------



## manifold

Two Thumbs said:


> and you're here whining about people whining, just sayin



When I demand an apology you might have a point skippy.


----------



## saveliberty

manifold said:


> Experience informs me that many many pussies, such as yourself, can be offended by a whole miriad of things that are of no consequence to them.  And the only way to toughen you pussies up is to keep offending you in the hopes that you'll grow some skin... and maybe some balls.



That it?  The best you got?  

Your barely amusing.


----------



## HUGGY

PoliticalChic said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think they did say it, but the assholes at NBC edited it out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who was hurt by this exactly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There must have been some point when you had consideration for folks
> who believe differently than you do....no?
Click to expand...


Naw....not so much...


----------



## manifold

saveliberty said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Experience informs me that many many pussies, such as yourself, can be offended by a whole miriad of things that are of no consequence to them.  And the only way to toughen you pussies up is to keep offending you in the hopes that you'll grow some skin... and maybe some balls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That it?  The best you got?
> 
> Your barely amusing.
Click to expand...


I save my best for those that are worthy.


----------



## PoliticalChic

HUGGY said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who was hurt by this exactly?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There must have been some point when you had consideration for folks
> who believe differently than you do....no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Naw....not so much...
Click to expand...


I'm going to assume that you get my drift, and your emoticons imply that you mean this post in a less-than-serious manner.

At least I hope that is the case.


----------



## Two Thumbs

manifold said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> and you're here whining about people whining, just sayin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I demand an apology you might have a point skippy.
Click to expand...


Sounds like somebody had leftovers on Thanksgiving growing up.

cupcake


----------



## HUGGY

Jack Fate said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think they did say it, but the assholes at NBC edited it out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who was hurt by this exactly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Everyone who loves the truth.
Click to expand...


The media is under no obligation to provide the truth in whole or part.  You can thank Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes for that.  What you Neo Con Christian Fundamentalist Fascists will never understand is that the rules you bend and break and ultimately change for small advantage for your psychopathic agendas can be used by everyone else for theirs. 

I made it clear at the time that the Fox lawsuit to guarantee their right to lie to the public under the first amendment would have far reaching consequences.  This would be one of those consequences.  You morons that mindlessly backed Murdoch on this then are reaping what you sowed.  Enjoy ...SUCKERS!!!!!

Don't talk about the truth asshole.   You have no such right anymore.


----------



## HUGGY

PoliticalChic said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> There must have been some point when you had consideration for folks
> who believe differently than you do....no?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Naw....not so much...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm going to assume that you get my drift, and your emoticons imply that you mean this post in a less-than-serious manner.
> 
> *At least I hope that is the case*.
Click to expand...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycbgHM1mI0k]YouTube - &#x202a;Dusty Springfield - Wishin&#39; And Hopin&#39;&#x202c;&rlm;[/ame]


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

Two Thumbs said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one is, was or has subjected any one to religion in a very very very long time.
> 
> Freedom of, not from religion
> 
> "under god, indivisible" is not going to harm anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And its not illegal to NOT say it if you dont want to .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was a ruling that made it clear that you didn't have to say it or even stand when it was being said.  I think it was the mormons or later day saints that considered it idolatry.  [even before "Under god" was added]
Click to expand...


And this is why I dont see the issue with leaving it in, if i dont want to say it i dont have to.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

manifold said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> No I felt like calling out someone who, like many in this thread, unfairly attacked those who were offended by what NBC appeared to do intentionally.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who was offended by it deserves the be called out for being the hypersensitive douchewagon they obviously are.  Oh noes, my faith in God is so tenuous that I'm offended every time it isn't validated by the media.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said they apologized which is admitting they were wrong so its time to move on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't read/hear their apology.  But I know for a fact that an apology doesn't necessarily equal an admission of being 'wrong'.  For example, "I'm sorry my remarks offended you" is not an admission of being wrong.
Click to expand...


Who is hypersenstive again 

oh and here is the apology



			
				nbc aplogy said:
			
		

> Regrettably, a portion of the Pledge of Allegiance that was in that feature was edited out. It was not done to upset anyone and wed like to apologize to those of you who were offended by it.


----------



## manifold

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> And this is why I dont see the issue with leaving it in, if i dont want to say it i dont have to.



And if NBC doesn't want to air it, they don't have to either.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

del said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> del said:
> 
> 
> 
> wiener quit
> 
> whatcha gonna do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess they could start pumping the tires on the new log cabin republican that just entered the 2012 race.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


What time is it? 15 past luongo!  

Rep for del


----------



## manifold

nbc aplogy said:
			
		

> Regrettably, a portion of the Pledge of Allegiance that was in that feature was edited out. It was not done to upset anyone and wed like to apologize to those of you who were offended by it.



Sure *doesn't* sound like an admission of wrongdoing to me.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

manifold said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> And this is why I dont see the issue with leaving it in, if i dont want to say it i dont have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And if NBC doesn't want to air it, they don't have to either.
Click to expand...


This is still a free country and we still have a free media, just dont let the Obamaites get their "fairness doctrine" or any  other federal control of the airwaves out there .

Again I dont see what the issue is still.  NBC left it out, some of their audience didn't like it and complained, NBC apologized, the viewers can decide if it was bad enough to stop watching NBC or not.    Gotta love america


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

manifold said:


> nbc aplogy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regrettably, a portion of the Pledge of Allegiance that was in that feature was edited out. It was not done to upset anyone and wed like to apologize to those of you who were offended by it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure *doesn't* sound like an admission of wrongdoing to me.
Click to expand...


Sounds to me like they were saying "ooops our bad, we fucked up, dont stop watching please here is an apology"


----------



## manifold

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Again I dont see what the issue is still.  NBC left it out, some of their audience didn't like it and complained, NBC apologized, the viewers can decide if it was bad enough to stop watching NBC or not.    Gotta love america



Agreed.

And I'm still entitled to opine that viewers who were so offended that they made a stink about it are a bunch of weak-faithed pussies.  Anyone with real faith wouldn't care.


----------



## manifold

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nbc aplogy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regrettably, a portion of the Pledge of Allegiance that was in that feature was edited out. It was not done to upset anyone and wed like to apologize to those of you who were offended by it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure *doesn't* sound like an admission of wrongdoing to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sounds to me like they were saying "ooops our bad, we fucked up, *dont stop watching *please here is an apology"
Click to expand...


Exactly.  Their apology was a sound business decision.  Still doesn't mean they believe their actions were inherently wrong.


----------



## Truthmatters

Fox outed themselves for the bias they live by ( the soup they swim in).


----------



## mattskramer

Did they say "one nation without God"?  I don't understand the outrage held by those who want to have people include the phrase "under God" (yes, as it is written).  I think that the reason why they did not say "under God" was in consideration to atheists and agnostics.  "God believers" should lighten up.  Be happy that they did not say "One nation without God".


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

manifold said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure *doesn't* sound like an admission of wrongdoing to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds to me like they were saying "ooops our bad, we fucked up, *dont stop watching *please here is an apology"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly.  Their apology was a sound business decision.  Still doesn't mean they believe their actions were inherently wrong.
Click to expand...


so if we basically agree here whats with all the manitude?


----------



## PoliticalChic

mattskramer said:


> Did they say "one nation without God"?  I don't understand the outrage held by those who want to have people include the phrase "under God" (yes, as it is written).  I think that the reason why they did not say "under God" was in consideration to atheists and agnostics.  "God believers" should lighten up.  Be happy that they did not say "One nation without God".



Thank you, Friedrich Nietzsche!


----------



## Uncensored2008

Dr Grump said:


> So I should be forced into religion?



That isn't the question nor what you desire - you want to silence others who hold beliefs you object to. No one is forcing you to do anything - it is YOU who seeks to force others to be silent - their faith offends you so you will deny them the right to express faith.



> What has the first amendment got to do with forcing me to say "under God"



No one has forced you to say anything.  



> If some refuse to say that part of the pledge does that make you 'more' American and 'more' patriotic than those who don't?



I couldn't care less about what you do or don't say. It is your desire to silence others that i object to.  You of the anti-liberty left are busy silencing ideas that you don't like.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

Truthmatters said:


> Fox outed themselves for the bias they live by ( the soup they swim in).



ok what post are you referencing? In light of the discussion in the posts leading up to yours your post just doesn't fit.


----------



## freedombecki

Oh, my goodness gracious.

I was going to look up NBC News Anchors, research their universities, when I pulled up this image that said the NBC News is located in the _GE Building_.  

hahahahahahahahawellkissmygritsandhahahahahahahahaha

The link/photo is here


----------



## Caroljo

mattskramer said:


> Did they say "one nation without God"?  I don't understand the outrage held by those who want to have people include the phrase "under God" (yes, as it is written).  I think that the reason why they did not say "under God" was in consideration to atheists and agnostics.  "God believers" should lighten up.  Be happy that they did not say "One nation without God".



Where's the consideration for Christians then?  We don't get any???
What's the matter with atheists & agnostics lightening up?  All they do now is complain about everything that has to do with God, why don't they just ignore it?  Why do the Christians have to always be the ones to give in to them?  It's our right to praise God, it's their right not to.  But why take away from one group of people?  

That's just like so many courthouse's have always displayed the 10 commandments, now very few do because a few atheists complained about!  They don't have to read them when they're in the courthouse...just ignore it!  It's not going to change their lives one bit or put them in some kind of stress just because there's words on a wall they don't agree with.


----------



## manifold

Uncensored2008 said:


> No one is forcing you to do anything - it is YOU who seeks to force others to be silent.



So why do you want to *force* NBC to air that line from the pledge?


----------



## manifold

Caroljo said:


> What's the matter with atheists & agnostics lightening up?  All they do now is complain about everything that has to do with God, why don't they just ignore it?



Strawman fail.

If NBC had aired the line nobody would've said boo.


----------



## Two Thumbs

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> And its not illegal to NOT say it if you dont want to .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a ruling that made it clear that you didn't have to say it or even stand when it was being said.  I think it was the mormons or later day saints that considered it idolatry.  [even before "Under god" was added]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And this is why I dont see the issue with leaving it in, if i dont want to say it i dont have to.
Click to expand...


I wonder if enough people would have made a stink if they had left it in?

How many people watch golfing anyway?


----------



## martybegan

manifold said:


> Caroljo said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's the matter with atheists & agnostics lightening up?  All they do now is complain about everything that has to do with God, why don't they just ignore it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Strawman fail.
> 
> If NBC had aired the line nobody would've said boo.
Click to expand...


I'm sure they would have gotten a few phone calls about being offended by the use of the word "God". This is the US of A, someone, somewhere is ALWAYS offended by something.


----------



## manifold

Two Thumbs said:


> I wonder if enough people would have made a stink if they had left it in?



Nobody would've said a thing.


----------



## manifold

martybegan said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Caroljo said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's the matter with atheists & agnostics lightening up?  All they do now is complain about everything that has to do with God, why don't they just ignore it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Strawman fail.
> 
> If NBC had aired the line nobody would've said boo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm sure they would have gotten a few phone calls about being offended by the use of the word "God". This is the US of A, someone, somewhere is ALWAYS offended by something.
Click to expand...


I suppose you're right.  But it's been aired with 'under God' many times in the past and I've never once heard about any mass complaints.  It gets omitted just once and thumpers lose their shit.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Dr Grump said:


> What's wrong with leaving it out? Religion should be kept in churches, mosques, temples and synagogues. Out of schools, baseball games, or any other past time for that matter...



Homosexuality should be kept in the closet, bathhouses, and private clubs. Out of schools, baseball games, or any other past time for that matter...

Funny how a couple of word changes reveal so very much.

Your desire to silence those whom you hate does not negate the constitutionally guaranteed civil rights of others, no matter HOW much better you are convinced you are than those whom you detest.

I'm agnostic, but will fight to the death to defend the right of others to practice religion as they see fit - in public, on holy-government ground or wherever.


----------



## mattskramer

As I see it, people (A) are forcing people to have under God remain (say under God) practically to the same degree that people (B) are forcing people to have under God removed (prohibit people from saying under Go).  It all seems to be about the same.  

I think that those in the group B category are on higher ethical ground.  They are not calling for the replacement of that phrase with one that claims that God does not exist.  Simply out of consideration for those who are not monotheists, they would like to have the phrase removed.


----------



## martybegan

manifold said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Strawman fail.
> 
> If NBC had aired the line nobody would've said boo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure they would have gotten a few phone calls about being offended by the use of the word "God". This is the US of A, someone, somewhere is ALWAYS offended by something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suppose you're right.  But it's been aired with 'under God' many times in the past and I've never once heard about any mass complaints.  It gets omitted just once and thumpers lose their shit.
Click to expand...


Because omission in itself is an action with far more intent and meaning than inclusion of something that is supposed to be there. Including it would basically be a non-event, as for the past 60 years it has been part of the pledge. Only your dedicated nutters would make a stink over it, and these are what we would consider "career complainers"

Omission, however, implies a willful change to something that is expected. You see it when people skip a line in a song, the expected did not happen, and people therefore notice it. Add the fact that it IS the most contriversial part of the pledge and BANG, instant shitstorm.


----------



## JohnA

peach174 said:


> JohnA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> Below was the incident I had in mind, got it wrong specifically but not generally.   Is it a big deal, the NBC thing or this?   In the overall scope of things we have to deal with today, probably not.    I don't care if Obama is religious or not, although I will say I don't like the hypocrisy of it, saying one thing and being another.    But don't be editing the Pledge, or misquoting the Declaration on purpose to make a political point.   And don't be telling me is was a mistake, these people know damn well what the words are and they should get it right or not say it at all.
> 
> 
> Back in Sept 2010:
> 
> File this under the pseudo-Christian column. President Obama concluded his speech at this weeks Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute gala with,
> 
> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, endowed with certain inalienable rights, life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
> 
> The U.S. Declaration of Independence reads,
> 
> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed *by their Creator *with certain inalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
> 
> 
> 
> YES IT DOES   but the word creator  does not necessarily mean the Christian god
> remember  the fondling fathers were mostly deist .  the word can mean different  things  to different people the problem arizes when the Christians claim every time the word god is used it applies to there Deity .
> 
> i  in my work  recite the pledge a lot never say god either leave the words out ( takes some practice) or say  *under dog*  eishenhower  bastardized it needs to be reversed a sto the words as were written
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The majority of our founding father's were Christian's. They were not deist's. Even the few who were deist's proclaimed of an active God.
> 
> The Founding Fathers Were Not Deists
> 
> The creator falls under Christians, Jews and Muslims, as many other type of religions do.
> You have the right in this nation to drop the word under God or substitute it. But the majority of this nation is religious and those of you who don't believe, do not have the right to take those words out.
> 
> This is political correctness run amok again.
Click to expand...

 we have EVERY right to fight to have the pledge read AS IT WAS ORIGINALLY WRITTEN 
 cus you are the *majority *dont make  your opinion right  as it does.nt with any other subject  
 the MAJORITY of citizens support the right to abortion 
 doesnt mean the  religious right *minority* cant fight to have the  law changed 

the creator  could also mean the flying  spaghetti monster


----------



## mattskramer

Caroljo said:


> mattskramer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did they say "one nation without God"?  I don't understand the outrage held by those who want to have people include the phrase "under God" (yes, as it is written).  I think that the reason why they did not say "under God" was in consideration to atheists and agnostics.  "God believers" should lighten up.  Be happy that they did not say "One nation without God".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where's the consideration for Christians then?  We don't get any???
> What's the matter with atheists & agnostics lightening up?  All they do now is complain about everything that has to do with God, why don't they just ignore it?  Why do the Christians have to always be the ones to give in to them?  It's our right to praise God, it's their right not to.  But why take away from one group of people?
> 
> That's just like so many courthouse's have always displayed the 10 commandments, now very few do because a few atheists complained about!  They don't have to read them when they're in the courthouse...just ignore it!  It's not going to change their lives one bit or put them in some kind of stress just because there's words on a wall they don't agree with.
Click to expand...


What about the Buddists, Muslims, people of less popular religions?


----------



## manifold

martybegan said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure they would have gotten a few phone calls about being offended by the use of the word "God". This is the US of A, someone, somewhere is ALWAYS offended by something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose you're right.  But it's been aired with 'under God' many times in the past and I've never once heard about any mass complaints.  It gets omitted just once and thumpers lose their shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because omission in itself is an action with far more intent and meaning than inclusion of something that is supposed to be there. Including it would basically be a non-event, as for the past 60 years it has been part of the pledge. Only your dedicated nutters would make a stink over it, and these are what we would consider "career complainers"
> 
> Omission, however, implies a willful change to something that is expected. You see it when people skip a line in a song, the expected did not happen, and people therefore notice it. Add the fact that it IS the most contriversial part of the pledge and BANG, instant shitstorm.
Click to expand...


Agreed.  But again, my original reply was to point out the absurdity of Caroljo's implication that atheists and agnostics are bigger complainers than bible thumpers.


----------



## Truthmatters

Our founders did believe in people voting.

The constitution seems more concerned with voting than with making sure christians get to have top billing in this country.

Why are you more comcerned about your religion being in control than the people being in control?


----------



## martybegan

manifold said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose you're right.  But it's been aired with 'under God' many times in the past and I've never once heard about any mass complaints.  It gets omitted just once and thumpers lose their shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because omission in itself is an action with far more intent and meaning than inclusion of something that is supposed to be there. Including it would basically be a non-event, as for the past 60 years it has been part of the pledge. Only your dedicated nutters would make a stink over it, and these are what we would consider "career complainers"
> 
> Omission, however, implies a willful change to something that is expected. You see it when people skip a line in a song, the expected did not happen, and people therefore notice it. Add the fact that it IS the most contriversial part of the pledge and BANG, instant shitstorm.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agreed.  But again, my original reply was to point out the absurdity of Caroljo's implication that atheists and agnostics are bigger complainers than bible thumpers.
Click to expand...


Legally they have recently been the biggest complainers. First let me qualify my response as follows:

There are two types of atheists/agnostics. The normal everyday ones, who like normal people of faith, go about thier lives without issue. Then we have what I like to call "asshole atheists,"  the non believer counterpart to "bible thumpers" who feel a need to eliminate any trace of religion from the common arena, be it someone saying a prayer before a ball game, a menorah/manger in a public square, or the ten commandments in front of a court house. 

The second group, on both sides are very annoying, but it seems to be the atheist side who goes the legal route with far more frequency, over what most of the other people on BOTH side see as trivial chickenshit. 

I fail to see how a cross on a hill a person sees on thier drive to work consitutes such a egrareous affront to someone that they feel the need to remove it via the courts.


----------



## Truthmatters

Well its about protecting the constitution, one has to use the courts to protect our rights sometimes.

Much like the court indicting republicans who try and suppose black voters.


----------



## manifold

martybegan said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because omission in itself is an action with far more intent and meaning than inclusion of something that is supposed to be there. Including it would basically be a non-event, as for the past 60 years it has been part of the pledge. Only your dedicated nutters would make a stink over it, and these are what we would consider "career complainers"
> 
> Omission, however, implies a willful change to something that is expected. You see it when people skip a line in a song, the expected did not happen, and people therefore notice it. Add the fact that it IS the most contriversial part of the pledge and BANG, instant shitstorm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  But again, my original reply was to point out the absurdity of Caroljo's implication that atheists and agnostics are bigger complainers than bible thumpers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Legally they have recently been the biggest complainers. First let me qualify my response as follows:
> 
> There are two types of atheists/agnostics. The normal everyday ones, who like normal people of faith, go about thier lives without issue. Then we have what I like to call "asshole atheists,"  the non believer counterpart to "bible thumpers" who feel a need to eliminate any trace of religion from the common arena, be it someone saying a prayer before a ball game, a menorah/manger in a public square, or the ten commandments in front of a court house.
> 
> The second group, on both sides are very annoying, but it seems to be the atheist side who goes the legal route with far more frequency, over what most of the other people on BOTH side see as trivial chickenshit.
> 
> I fail to see how a cross on a hill a person sees on thier drive to work consitutes such a egrareous affront to someone that they feel the need to remove it via the courts.
Click to expand...


OK, point taken.

However, this NBC blow-up wasn't just the 'fringe' thumpers (or counterparts to asshole atheists) doing the complaining.  If it were, they would've been ignored, not pandered to in an attempt to salvage viewership.


----------



## del

Truthmatters said:


> Well its about protecting the constitution, one has to use the courts to protect our rights sometimes.
> 
> Much like the court indicting republicans who try and suppose black voters.



how's the ESL coming along?


----------



## JohnA

peach174 said:


> JohnA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> Below was the incident I had in mind, got it wrong specifically but not generally.   Is it a big deal, the NBC thing or this?   In the overall scope of things we have to deal with today, probably not.    I don't care if Obama is religious or not, although I will say I don't like the hypocrisy of it, saying one thing and being another.    But don't be editing the Pledge, or misquoting the Declaration on purpose to make a political point.   And don't be telling me is was a mistake, these people know damn well what the words are and they should get it right or not say it at all.
> 
> 
> Back in Sept 2010:
> 
> File this under the pseudo-Christian column. President Obama concluded his speech at this weeks Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute gala with,
> 
> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, endowed with certain inalienable rights, life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
> 
> The U.S. Declaration of Independence reads,
> 
> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed *by their Creator *with certain inalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
> 
> 
> 
> YES IT DOES   but the word creator  does not necessarily mean the Christian god
> remember  the fondling fathers were mostly deist .  the word can mean different  things  to different people the problem arizes when the Christians claim every time the word god is used it applies to there Deity .
> 
> i  in my work  recite the pledge a lot never say god either leave the words out ( takes some practice) or say  *under dog*  eishenhower  bastardized it needs to be reversed a sto the words as were written
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The majority of our founding father's were Christian's. They were not deist's. Even the few who were deist's proclaimed of an active God.
> 
> The Founding Fathers Were Not Deists
> 
> The creator falls under Christians, Jews and Muslims, as many other type of religions do.
> You have the right in this nation to drop the word under God or substitute it. But the majority of this nation is religious and those of you who don't believe, do not have the right to take those words out.
> 
> This is political correctness run amok again.
Click to expand...


 well the articule *patheos * only goes  farther to prove my point 
IF  as the articule seems to suggest most were christians then had they wanted the country to be formed on * christian  dogma  they  would have  done so .

why do you insist that   one faith has to be incorparated in the constitution of a nation 

 it appears they  had more tolorance than modern christians show


----------



## Truthmatters

Why do you hate the judicial part of our government?

Its part of the plan to run this country.

Just because you are a partisan who thinks the courts should only be used by people you agree with doesnt mean its bad for America.

People who cheat should be indicted like those republicans caught recently suppressing the votes of Americans.


Im glad they were indicted and hope they get a fair trial.

Dont you?


----------



## Two Thumbs

mattskramer said:


> As I see it, people (A) are forcing people to have under God remain (say under God) practically to the same degree that people (B) are forcing people to have under God removed (prohibit people from saying under Go).  It all seems to be about the same.
> 
> I think that those in the group B category are on higher ethical ground.  They are not calling for the replacement of that phrase with one that claims that God does not exist.  Simply out of consideration for those who are not monotheists, they would like to have the phrase removed.



If you could be forced to even say the Pledge, let alone the whole thing, this would make sense.

But since, based on religious reasons, you can't be forced to say it, let alone even forced to stand while others say it, this is a useless point.


----------



## saveliberty

Please feel free to forward anything government issued that states, "In God we trust."


----------



## L.K.Eder

god will be pissed. aiaiaiaiai


----------



## Uncensored2008

Dr Grump said:


> Absolutely they can pray at a game - just don't ask me to,



But it's fine for you to ask them not to...



> And don't get all smarmy and say that those who don't pray are somehow a lesser [insert nationality] here, or not as patriotic. Now, I'm not saying you think that, but a lot of people do.



If they do, should they be put in prison? What penalty attaches to expression not approved of by you?



> I think you should be as free from religion as you can without penalty of favour.



So freedom from speech you oppose, then?


----------



## Steve Hanson

Truthmatters said:


> Our founders did believe in people voting.
> 
> The constitution seems more concerned with voting than with making sure christians get to have top billing in this country.
> 
> Why are you more comcerned about your religion being in control than the people being in control?



Actually no. It's the first amendment that protects the rights of religion. Evidently that was first and foremost on their minds.


----------



## Uncensored2008

jillian said:


> how is not wanting to be subjected to religion the same as hatred for people of faith?



So your hatred is really just of free speech?

Those who hold views contrary to yours - and the party which define those views, must be silent?

Yep, pretty well the standard position of you anti-liberty leftists.


----------



## manifold

Uncensored2008 said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> how is not wanting to be subjected to religion the same as hatred for people of faith?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So your hatred is really just of free speech?
> 
> Those who hold views contrary to yours - and the party which define those views, must be silent?
> 
> Yep, pretty well the standard position of you anti-liberty leftists.
Click to expand...


The only anti-liberty dipshits in this story are the weak-faithed thumpers seeking to deny NBC the liberty to edit content as they see fit.


----------



## martybegan

manifold said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  But again, my original reply was to point out the absurdity of Caroljo's implication that atheists and agnostics are bigger complainers than bible thumpers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Legally they have recently been the biggest complainers. First let me qualify my response as follows:
> 
> There are two types of atheists/agnostics. The normal everyday ones, who like normal people of faith, go about thier lives without issue. Then we have what I like to call "asshole atheists,"  the non believer counterpart to "bible thumpers" who feel a need to eliminate any trace of religion from the common arena, be it someone saying a prayer before a ball game, a menorah/manger in a public square, or the ten commandments in front of a court house.
> 
> The second group, on both sides are very annoying, but it seems to be the atheist side who goes the legal route with far more frequency, over what most of the other people on BOTH side see as trivial chickenshit.
> 
> I fail to see how a cross on a hill a person sees on thier drive to work consitutes such a egrareous affront to someone that they feel the need to remove it via the courts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, point taken.
> 
> However, this NBC blow-up wasn't just the 'fringe' thumpers (or counterparts to asshole atheists) doing the complaining.  If it were, they would've been ignored, not pandered to in an attempt to salvage viewership.
Click to expand...


Agreed it wasnt just the fringe. Omission of something expected gets noticed, and if it involves a hot button issue like religion you will get people calling up wondering what happened. 

lets look back to the whole janet jackson thing with "the slip." I am sure there have been slips in the past, on dancers, acrobats, singers, etc. What made this worse was Timberlake's definite action to remove that "panel" on the constume. A deliberate (or percieved deliberate) act is far more noticable than an accident, and will result in far more of a response than said accident.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Two Thumbs said:


> There was a ruling that made it clear that you didn't have to say it or even stand when it was being said.  I think it was the mormons or later day saints that considered it idolatry.  [even before "Under god" was added]



7th Day Adventists. Taking oaths is forbidden. They won't take an oath in military service, either. (They're pacifists, so no biggie there.)


----------



## Uncensored2008

manifold said:


> So why the faux-rage over what NBC did?



Yeah, it's not like censorship is wrong - so long as censorship aids the party.

Censorship helps promote good speak and suppress bad speak. NBC serves Obama.

Obama Akbar.


----------



## Uncensored2008

manifold said:


> Experience informs me that many many pussies, such as yourself, can be offended by a whole miriad of things that are of no consequence to them.



LOL, yeah - some people are even offended by little girls saying a prayer at a football game. What fucking pussies, like a little girl praying to a god they don't believe in is going to hurt them? Still these fuck-nut asshats demand that little girls be silenced, lest they offend their precious and pure ears by hearing words that offend them...

Yeah, these thin-skinned ***** really are pathetic.

Aren't they?


----------



## Uncensored2008

manifold said:


> So why do you want to *force* NBC to air that line from the pledge?



Exposing NBC for censorship doesn't "force" them to anything.

Why do you seek to silence ideas you oppose? Are your ideas so weak that you know they cannot compete in an open marketplace of ideas?


----------



## Uncensored2008

manifold said:


> If NBC had aired the line nobody would've said boo.



Funny how people don't react to a lack of censorship.....


----------



## manifold

Uncensored2008 said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Experience informs me that many many pussies, such as yourself, can be offended by a whole miriad of things that are of no consequence to them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, yeah - some people are even offended by little girls saying a prayer at a football game. What fucking pussies, like a little girl praying to a god they don't believe in is going to hurt them? Still these fuck-nut asshats demand that little girls be silenced, lest they offend their precious and pure ears by hearing words that offend them...
> 
> Yeah, these thin-skinned ***** really are pathetic.
> 
> Aren't they?
Click to expand...


Yes, they are.

Next?


----------



## manifold

Uncensored2008 said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> So why do you want to *force* NBC to air that line from the pledge?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exposing NBC for censorship doesn't "force" them to anything.
> 
> Why do you seek to silence ideas you oppose? Are your ideas so weak that you know they cannot compete in an open marketplace of ideas?
Click to expand...


I'm not trying to silence anyone.  I support NBC's right to edit content as they see fit.  Why do you hate a free and open marketplace?

PS:  It's only censorship when mandated by the FCC, dipshit.


----------



## Uncensored2008

manifold said:


> Yes, they are.
> 
> Next?



Indeed.

{The central question in the case was whether it is a violation of the Constitution for a public school district to allow such prayers, even if school officials do not start the prayers.

Specifically, the question was whether such action violates the First Amendment's establishment clause, which states that Congress "shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."}

Supreme Court rules against student-led prayer at football games - CNN

I understand, you weren't meaning to sound pro-liberty, I tricked you.

I won't tell your party on you.


----------



## manifold

Uncensored2008 said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they are.
> 
> Next?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> {The central question in the case was whether it is a violation of the Constitution for a public school district to allow such prayers, even if school officials do not start the prayers.
> 
> Specifically, the question was whether such action violates the First Amendment's establishment clause, which states that Congress "shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."}
> 
> Supreme Court rules against student-led prayer at football games - CNN
> 
> I understand, you weren't meaning to sound pro-liberty, I tricked you.
> 
> I won't tell your party on you.
Click to expand...


I am pro-liberty.  And I disagree with the SCOTUS ruling on this one.

But feel free to keep jumping to eroneous conclusions.


----------



## Uncensored2008

manifold said:


> I'm not trying to silence anyone.  I support NBC's right to edit content as they see fit.



But if people object to them censoring religious words, they should just keep it to themselves...



> PS:  It's only censorship when mandated by the FCC, dipshit.



I'll keep that in mind.

ROFL - the bullshit you anti-liberty leftists come up with to justify your acts is amazing, and amusing.


----------



## jillian

Uncensored2008 said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> how is not wanting to be subjected to religion the same as hatred for people of faith?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So your hatred is really just of free speech?
> 
> Those who hold views contrary to yours - and the party which define those views, must be silent?
> 
> Yep, pretty well the standard position of you anti-liberty leftists.
Click to expand...


----------



## manifold

Uncensored2008 said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not trying to silence anyone.  I support NBC's right to edit content as they see fit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But if people object to them censoring religious words, they should just keep it to themselves...
Click to expand...


Not at all.  And likewise, I don't need to keep it to myself that I think they're weak-faithed pussies.

Next?


----------



## manifold

Uncensored2008 said:


> PS:  It's only censorship when mandated by the FCC, dipshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll keep that in mind.
Click to expand...


Please do, you'll be a wiser and better man for it.


----------



## saveliberty

manifold said:


> The only anti-liberty dipshits in this story are the weak-faithed thumpers seeking to deny NBC the liberty to edit content as they see fit.



Weak faithed?  They stood up to a major media outlet.  No one's liberty was denied here.  Seriously, learn what words mean before you go and throw them around okay?  NBC was on the receiving end of a CONSUMER COMPLAINT.  One which they quickly made amends for.


----------



## manifold

saveliberty said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only anti-liberty dipshits in this story are the weak-faithed thumpers seeking to deny NBC the liberty to edit content as they see fit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weak faithed?  They stood up to a major media outlet.  No one's liberty was denied here.  Seriously, learn what words mean before you go and throw them around okay?  NBC was on the receiving end of a CONSUMER COMPLAINT.  One which they quickly made amends for.
Click to expand...


Yes, very weak faithed.

And consumer activism is responsible for all sorts of liberty infringement.  I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it.  In fact, I consider it the best place for this type of infringement to take place (out of the hands of government as it were).  But to pretend it's something else is decidedly retarded.


----------



## saveliberty

manifold said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only anti-liberty dipshits in this story are the weak-faithed thumpers seeking to deny NBC the liberty to edit content as they see fit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weak faithed?  They stood up to a major media outlet.  No one's liberty was denied here.  Seriously, learn what words mean before you go and throw them around okay?  NBC was on the receiving end of a CONSUMER COMPLAINT.  One which they quickly made amends for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, very weak faithed.
> 
> And consumer activism is responsible for all sorts of liberty infringement.  I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it.  In fact, I consider it the best place for this type of infringement to take place (out of the hands of government as it were).  But to pretend it's something else is decidedly retarded.
Click to expand...


Nope, they stood up for what they believed.  As consumers of a product, they let the manufacturer know it was substandard.  Stamp you feet and whine some more, maybe your Mommy will show up and get you some ice cream.


----------



## manifold

saveliberty said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Weak faithed?  They stood up to a major media outlet.  No one's liberty was denied here.  Seriously, learn what words mean before you go and throw them around okay?  NBC was on the receiving end of a CONSUMER COMPLAINT.  One which they quickly made amends for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, very weak faithed.
> 
> And consumer activism is responsible for all sorts of liberty infringement.  I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it.  In fact, I consider it the best place for this type of infringement to take place (out of the hands of government as it were).  But to pretend it's something else is decidedly retarded.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope, they stood up for what they believed.  As consumers of a product, they let the manufacturer know it was substandard.
Click to expand...


And they have every right.  I never said otherwise.

However you seem to be more than just a little bit overemotional about the fact that I think they're weak of faith.  Must've hit a nerve with that one.

But whatcha gonna do?


----------



## saveliberty

So if I follow your logic, it is weak to make known your displeasure with something that attacks your faith.  That being true, you must be a very threatened liberal.  lol

btw, I was hoping you would fall for it.


----------



## Two Thumbs

HAHAHAHAHAHA

As much time as this thread is getting, I'm starting to think NBC did it again.

HAHAHAHAHA


----------



## manifold

saveliberty said:


> So if I follow your logic, it is weak to make known your displeasure with something that attacks your faith.  That being true, you must be a very threatened liberal.  lol
> 
> btw, I was hoping you would fall for it.



Believing that your faith has been attacked is what makes you weak of faith dipshit.


----------



## saveliberty

manifold said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if I follow your logic, it is weak to make known your displeasure with something that attacks your faith.  That being true, you must be a very threatened liberal.  lol
> 
> btw, I was hoping you would fall for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Believing that your faith has been attacked is what makes you weak of faith dipshit.
Click to expand...


Believing your liberty is threatened by Christians is mindless babble.


----------



## manifold

saveliberty said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if I follow your logic, it is weak to make known your displeasure with something that attacks your faith.  That being true, you must be a very threatened liberal.  lol
> 
> btw, I was hoping you would fall for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Believing that your faith has been attacked is what makes you weak of faith dipshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Believing your liberty is threatened by Christians is mindless babble.
Click to expand...


I never said my liberty was threatened by Christians.

You did however say that your faith was attacked by NBC's editorial choice.

Sorry pal, but that betrays a serious serious weakness in your own faith.

PS: Before you jump to anymore conclusions, you should know that I am a person of strong faith.  And it annoys me when dipshits like you give us a bad name.


----------



## saveliberty

manifold said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Believing that your faith has been attacked is what makes you weak of faith dipshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Believing your liberty is threatened by Christians is mindless babble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never said my liberty was threatened by Christians.
> 
> You did however say that your faith was attacked by NBC's editorial choice.
> 
> Sorry pal, but that betrays a serious serious weakness in your own faith.
> 
> PS: Before you jump to anymore conclusions, you should know that I am a person of strong faith.  And it annoys me when dipshits like you give us a bad name.
Click to expand...


Yes, I frequently find people of strong faith that call others dipshit, fool, and other defaming names.  Take your bag of bs and move downwind.


----------



## manifold

saveliberty said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Believing your liberty is threatened by Christians is mindless babble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said my liberty was threatened by Christians.
> 
> You did however say that your faith was attacked by NBC's editorial choice.
> 
> Sorry pal, but that betrays a serious serious weakness in your own faith.
> 
> PS: Before you jump to anymore conclusions, you should know that I am a person of strong faith.  And it annoys me when dipshits like you give us a bad name.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I frequently find people of strong faith that call others dipshit, fool, and other defaming names.  Take your bag of bs and move downwind.
Click to expand...


Looks like someone has a little soul searching to do.

You're welcome btw.


----------



## saveliberty

manifold said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never said my liberty was threatened by Christians.
> 
> You did however say that your faith was attacked by NBC's editorial choice.
> 
> Sorry pal, but that betrays a serious serious weakness in your own faith.
> 
> PS: Before you jump to anymore conclusions, you should know that I am a person of strong faith.  And it annoys me when dipshits like you give us a bad name.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I frequently find people of strong faith that call others dipshit, fool, and other defaming names.  Take your bag of bs and move downwind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Looks like someone has a little soul searching to do.
> 
> You're welcome btw.
Click to expand...


I don't imagine the Bible According to Manifold will sell too many copies.  Good idea to use the cartoon format though.


----------



## manifold

Don't blame me because your faith is weak.  I ain't got nothing to do with it dipshit.


----------



## saveliberty

manifold said:


> Don't blame me because your faith is weak.  I ain't got nothing to do with it dipshit.



Your so pathetic, I want to give you some wit, but you'd just hurt yourself.


----------



## Spoonman

Shogun said:


> so, wasn't the original version sans "under god" too?
> 
> 
> where are the fucking originalists now?!?>!


  If we wanted to go back to the original version of everything because that's the way our forefathers envisioned it, Tiger woods would have been playing this tournament in irons instead of swinging them.  think about it.


----------



## manifold

saveliberty said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't blame me because your faith is weak.  I ain't got nothing to do with it dipshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your so pathetic, I want to give you some wit, but you'd just hurt yourself.
Click to expand...


At least my faith isn't rattled by NBC's editorial choices.


----------



## LibocalypseNow

Why do the screeching Wingnuts over at NBC hate God so much? Seems so petty and such a waste of time. It actually took an effort on their part to omit the word God. They knew what they were doing. And i still think the GE/NBC/Obama close relationship should be investigated. GE CEO Jeffrey Immelt his "Jobs Czar?" Something isn't right with this picture. Either way,i don't take anything NBC says all that seriously anymore. They've discredited themselves over the years. This incident only seals the deal for most on that.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

freedombecki said:


> Oh, my goodness gracious.
> 
> I was going to look up NBC News Anchors, research their universities, when I pulled up this image that said the NBC News is located in the _GE Building_.
> 
> hahahahahahahahawellkissmygritsandhahahahahahahahaha
> 
> The link/photo is here



Actually NBC was recently aquired by comcast, who fired their old liberally biased CEO and put in a new one who will be fired if he exhibits bias too.   

They are still working on the staff obviously from this "edit" everyone is raging about.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

Two Thumbs said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was a ruling that made it clear that you didn't have to say it or even stand when it was being said.  I think it was the mormons or later day saints that considered it idolatry.  [even before "Under god" was added]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is why I dont see the issue with leaving it in, if i dont want to say it i dont have to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wonder if enough people would have made a stink if they had left it in?
> 
> How many people watch golfing anyway?
Click to expand...


Leaving it in is the norm so i dont think people would have noticed.

A few athiests (that have some personal issues) would have freaked out probably.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

JohnA said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JohnA said:
> 
> 
> 
> YES IT DOES   but the word creator  does not necessarily mean the Christian god
> remember  the fondling fathers were mostly deist .  the word can mean different  things  to different people the problem arizes when the Christians claim every time the word god is used it applies to there Deity .
> 
> i  in my work  recite the pledge a lot never say god either leave the words out ( takes some practice) or say  *under dog*  eishenhower  bastardized it needs to be reversed a sto the words as were written
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The majority of our founding father's were Christian's. They were not deist's. Even the few who were deist's proclaimed of an active God.
> 
> The Founding Fathers Were Not Deists
> 
> The creator falls under Christians, Jews and Muslims, as many other type of religions do.
> You have the right in this nation to drop the word under God or substitute it. But the majority of this nation is religious and those of you who don't believe, do not have the right to take those words out.
> 
> This is political correctness run amok again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> we have EVERY right to fight to have the pledge read AS IT WAS ORIGINALLY WRITTEN
> cus you are the *majority *dont make  your opinion right  as it does.nt with any other subject
> the MAJORITY of citizens support the right to abortion
> doesnt mean the  religious right *minority* cant fight to have the  law changed
> 
> the creator  could also mean the flying  spaghetti monster
Click to expand...


you just described why we are a constitutional republic and not a democracy in the USA.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on whats for dinner, liberty is a well armed (or represented) lamb contesting that outcome  -benjamin franklin (minus my "or represented")


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

martybegan said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because omission in itself is an action with far more intent and meaning than inclusion of something that is supposed to be there. Including it would basically be a non-event, as for the past 60 years it has been part of the pledge. Only your dedicated nutters would make a stink over it, and these are what we would consider "career complainers"
> 
> Omission, however, implies a willful change to something that is expected. You see it when people skip a line in a song, the expected did not happen, and people therefore notice it. Add the fact that it IS the most contriversial part of the pledge and BANG, instant shitstorm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  But again, my original reply was to point out the absurdity of Caroljo's implication that atheists and agnostics are bigger complainers than bible thumpers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Legally they have recently been the biggest complainers. First let me qualify my response as follows:
> 
> There are two types of atheists/agnostics. The normal everyday ones, who like normal people of faith, go about thier lives without issue. Then we have what I like to call "asshole atheists,"  the non believer counterpart to "bible thumpers" who feel a need to eliminate any trace of religion from the common arena, be it someone saying a prayer before a ball game, a menorah/manger in a public square, or the ten commandments in front of a court house.
> 
> The second group, on both sides are very annoying, but it seems to be the atheist side who goes the legal route with far more frequency, over what most of the other people on BOTH side see as trivial chickenshit.
> 
> I fail to see how a cross on a hill a person sees on thier drive to work consitutes such a egrareous affront to someone that they feel the need to remove it via the courts.
Click to expand...


well said


----------



## Two Thumbs

And nun of you bitches even noticed!!  except for those that did.

So allow me to channel my inner conspiracy nut.

Why would NBC dare to do such a horrid and insulting thing?

Well as you may recall, the libs in AZ want thier own state and will call it Baja sumtinoarudder.

Those spineless liberals don't have it in them to make a clean break for the country like CA plans on doing.

what?  You haven't heard that they are secrectly stashing massive bombs along the fault line?  Yeah, if obama doesn't get re-elected, there's going to be an "earthquake".

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

that or the lame steam media hates the word indivisable b/c it reminds them how hard math is.


----------



## LibocalypseNow

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, my goodness gracious.
> 
> I was going to look up NBC News Anchors, research their universities, when I pulled up this image that said the NBC News is located in the _GE Building_.
> 
> hahahahahahahahawellkissmygritsandhahahahahahahahaha
> 
> The link/photo is here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually NBC was recently aquired by comcast, who fired their old liberally biased CEO and put in a new one who will be fired if he exhibits bias too.
> 
> They are still working on the staff obviously from this "edit" everyone is raging about.
Click to expand...


Haven't heard much about that. So thanks. Yea they definitely need to clean house over at NBC. They let the screeching Wingnuts take over. I mean it did take an effort on their part to omit the word God. NBC has lost so much credibility over the years and i don't know if they can ever get it back. I hope you're right and they are cleaning house. I'll take a wait & see attitude on that though.


----------



## saveliberty

manifold said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't blame me because your faith is weak.  I ain't got nothing to do with it dipshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your so pathetic, I want to give you some wit, but you'd just hurt yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> At least my faith isn't rattled by NBC's editorial choices.
Click to expand...


Just who is "rattled"?  I'm inspired.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

saveliberty said:


> Please feel free to forward anything government issued that states, "In God we trust."



i'll keep my money thank you very much!


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

Spoonman said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> so, wasn't the original version sans "under god" too?
> 
> 
> where are the fucking originalists now?!?>!
> 
> 
> 
> If we wanted to go back to the original version of everything because that's the way our forefathers envisioned it, Tiger woods would have been playing this tournament in irons instead of swinging them.  think about it.
Click to expand...


Actually he would.  Blacks were free in the north you know and fought in the revolution alongside whites.

you just made a VERY dishonest assesment of who the founding fathers were and of our history.  You only concentrate on the evil slavery we incorrectly embraced in our southern colonies then states.   

The Revolution's Black Soldiers


----------



## JackDan

Soggy in NOLA said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never said it once I was old enough to think
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And considering that day has yet to arrive....
Click to expand...


you had me rolling on this one.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

LibocalypseNow said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, my goodness gracious.
> 
> I was going to look up NBC News Anchors, research their universities, when I pulled up this image that said the NBC News is located in the _GE Building_.
> 
> hahahahahahahahawellkissmygritsandhahahahahahahahaha
> 
> The link/photo is here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually NBC was recently aquired by comcast, who fired their old liberally biased CEO and put in a new one who will be fired if he exhibits bias too.
> 
> They are still working on the staff obviously from this "edit" everyone is raging about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Haven't heard much about that. So thanks. Yea they definitely need to clean house over at NBC. They let the screeching Wingnuts take over. I mean it did take an effort on their part to omit the word God. NBC has lost so much credibility over the years and i don't know if they can ever get it back. I hope you're right and they are cleaning house. I'll take a wait & see attitude on that though.
Click to expand...


yeah they fired keith, shivers up my leg, olberman as one of their first orders of business......i'll try and find you a link or a youtube story or something.


----------



## Uncensored2008

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> yeah they fired keith, shivers up my leg, olberman as one of their first orders of business......i'll try and find you a link or a youtube story or something.



They still have a case of Madcow disease, though...


----------



## LibocalypseNow

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually NBC was recently aquired by comcast, who fired their old liberally biased CEO and put in a new one who will be fired if he exhibits bias too.
> 
> They are still working on the staff obviously from this "edit" everyone is raging about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't heard much about that. So thanks. Yea they definitely need to clean house over at NBC. They let the screeching Wingnuts take over. I mean it did take an effort on their part to omit the word God. NBC has lost so much credibility over the years and i don't know if they can ever get it back. I hope you're right and they are cleaning house. I'll take a wait & see attitude on that though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yeah they fired keith, shivers up my leg, olberman as one of their first orders of business......i'll try and find you a link or a youtube story or something.
Click to expand...


Hey thanks. Does Comcast/Universal really mean there will be any real changes at NBC? And is GE still involved with NBC? I haven't kept track of this stuff in awhile. I just always assume GE/NBC and this White House have always been in bed together. I'm hopeful NBC will make changes though.


----------



## freedombecki

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, my goodness gracious.
> 
> I was going to look up NBC News Anchors, research their universities, when I pulled up this image that said the NBC News is located in the _GE Building_.
> 
> hahahahahahahahawellkissmygritsandhahahahahahahahaha
> 
> The link/photo is here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually NBC was recently aquired by comcast, who fired their old liberally biased CEO and put in a new one who will be fired if he exhibits bias too.
> 
> They are still working on the staff obviously from this "edit" everyone is raging about.
Click to expand...


Oh, don't mind me, Pilgrim. I just needed a little comic relief this morning, and it seemed hilarious that an all-leftist tv station was housed in an all-leftist company's property. I found you right though, and it appears there are 100 or so new staff personnel job openings for NBC in New York according to an ad at the Washington Post.. Thanks for the update. I had no idea.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

Uncensored2008 said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah they fired keith, shivers up my leg, olberman as one of their first orders of business......i'll try and find you a link or a youtube story or something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They still have a case of Madcow disease, though...
Click to expand...


you cant fire the whole crew all at once and keep things running .   

While i have little faith in my comcast service calls I have faith in the way they appear to be going with NBC, it will take a few years to get out the entrenched far left mindset of the producers and editors but I think comcast will eventually make it happen from the top down.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

freedombecki said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, my goodness gracious.
> 
> I was going to look up NBC News Anchors, research their universities, when I pulled up this image that said the NBC News is located in the _GE Building_.
> 
> hahahahahahahahawellkissmygritsandhahahahahahahahaha
> 
> The link/photo is here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually NBC was recently aquired by comcast, who fired their old liberally biased CEO and put in a new one who will be fired if he exhibits bias too.
> 
> They are still working on the staff obviously from this "edit" everyone is raging about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, don't mind me, Pilgrim. I just needed a little comic relief this morning, and it seemed hilarious that an all-leftist tv station was housed in an all-leftist company's property. I found you right though, and it appears there are 100 or so new staff personnel job openings for NBC in New York according to an ad at the Washington Post.. Thanks for the update. I had no idea.
Click to expand...


No problem.  Thanks for finding that story, im lazy about re-finding things once i read them .

i found a video where its talked about a bit.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyLz-weaMro]YouTube - &#x202a;"One Nation Under God" Omitted From Pledge by NBC Sports- The O&#39;Reilly Factor (Fox News)&#x202c;&rlm;[/ame]


----------



## freedombecki

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually NBC was recently aquired by comcast, who fired their old liberally biased CEO and put in a new one who will be fired if he exhibits bias too.
> 
> They are still working on the staff obviously from this "edit" everyone is raging about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't heard much about that. So thanks. Yea they definitely need to clean house over at NBC. They let the screeching Wingnuts take over. I mean it did take an effort on their part to omit the word God. NBC has lost so much credibility over the years and i don't know if they can ever get it back. I hope you're right and they are cleaning house. I'll take a wait & see attitude on that though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yeah they fired keith, shivers up my leg, olberman as one of their first orders of business......i'll try and find you a link or a youtube story or something.
Click to expand...


Olberman was the guest on Jimmy Fallon Late Night at NBC just the other day, promoting his new job at another station.

Google shows this today:

Keith Olbermanns Return to NBC
By Alex Weprin on June 15, 2011 9:09 AM

    Former MSNBC host and soon-to-be Current TV anchor Keith Olbermann will be returning to NBCUniversal this week but not on his former cable news home. Olbermann has been booked as a guest on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon  

Some return to unbiased news reporting...


----------



## manifold

saveliberty said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your so pathetic, I want to give you some wit, but you'd just hurt yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least my faith isn't rattled by NBC's editorial choices.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just who is "rattled"?  I'm inspired.
Click to expand...


Well, if you have to manufacture faux-attacks on your faith to find inspiration that more than proves my point.


----------



## freedombecki

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually NBC was recently aquired by comcast, who fired their old liberally biased CEO and put in a new one who will be fired if he exhibits bias too.
> 
> They are still working on the staff obviously from this "edit" everyone is raging about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, don't mind me, Pilgrim. I just needed a little comic relief this morning, and it seemed hilarious that an all-leftist tv station was housed in an all-leftist company's property. I found you right though, and it appears there are 100 or so new staff personnel job openings for NBC in New York according to an ad at the Washington Post.. Thanks for the update. I had no idea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No problem.  Thanks for finding that story, im lazy about re-finding things once i read them .
> 
> i found a video where its talked about a bit.
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyLz-weaMro]YouTube - &#x202a;"One Nation Under God" Omitted From Pledge by NBC Sports- The O'Reilly Factor (Fox News)&#x202c;&rlm;[/ame]
Click to expand...


Thanks for the link. I heard some of the Bill O/Bernie interview from the sewing room the other evening, but I really was running the sewing machine most of the time to complete an orphan quilt, so didn't hear it all.

I did go over to the US Open Golf Tournament's website, and their "contact us" area was out the very next day, so it's not clear to me who originated the _faux pas_. Maybe the tournament's board was behind it and is using NBC for cover. Nobody will know with their "contact us" link out of order.


----------



## Kiki Cannoli

NBC also omitted "under God" along with "indivisible."

ETA: posted second reply in a different thread, ignore this post.  carry on!  you're all doing brilliantly!


----------



## Meister

*Merged*


----------



## theDoctorisIn

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually NBC was recently aquired by comcast, who fired their old liberally biased CEO and put in a new one who will be fired if he exhibits bias too.
> 
> They are still working on the staff obviously from this "edit" everyone is raging about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't heard much about that. So thanks. Yea they definitely need to clean house over at NBC. They let the screeching Wingnuts take over. I mean it did take an effort on their part to omit the word God. NBC has lost so much credibility over the years and i don't know if they can ever get it back. I hope you're right and they are cleaning house. I'll take a wait & see attitude on that though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yeah they fired keith, shivers up my leg, olberman as one of their first orders of business......i'll try and find you a link or a youtube story or something.
Click to expand...


I realize that this isn't sinking in, but NBC and MSNBC are separate companies, and Olbermann didn't say the "shivers up my leg" comment, that was Chris Matthews.


----------



## wolf_22

Wiseacre said:


> During sunday's US Open golf tournament, NBC ran a segment where they showed kids reciting the pledge of allegiance, which was great.   But they edited out the "under God" words, similar to what president Obama himself did awhile back in a speech I think.    They got a lot of blowback from irrate viewers complaining about the omission, so they apologized saying it was not done to upset anyone.
> 
> Well I'm not sure about that, but I am sure it was done intentionally, as did Obama.   I have to question why, surely they know this is going to inflame a lot of people.   And for what?   You know what, I think it comes down to arrogance, an eliteist position of gov't over God.   It's deliberately done with condescension and shows a lack of respect for any other view but thir own.    It's like we don't care what you think, if you don't agree then you're wrong and should be ignored or at least discounted.



a lack of respect for any view but their own...kinda of like how christians think talking about god and having such a line in the pledge isn't disresepct to nonbelievers or to people of other faiths?

I'm catholic and I support the 1st amendment, as well as the protection of both government and religion.

taking that line out is a wonderful thing and shows respect toward everyone - especially the minority who believe in godS or in no god at all


----------



## manifold

wolf_22 said:


> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> During sunday's US Open golf tournament, NBC ran a segment where they showed kids reciting the pledge of allegiance, which was great.   But they edited out the "under God" words, similar to what president Obama himself did awhile back in a speech I think.    They got a lot of blowback from irrate viewers complaining about the omission, so they apologized saying it was not done to upset anyone.
> 
> Well I'm not sure about that, but I am sure it was done intentionally, as did Obama.   I have to question why, surely they know this is going to inflame a lot of people.   And for what?   You know what, I think it comes down to arrogance, an eliteist position of gov't over God.   It's deliberately done with condescension and shows a lack of respect for any other view but thir own.    It's like we don't care what you think, if you don't agree then you're wrong and should be ignored or at least discounted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a lack of respect for any view but their own...kinda of like how christians think talking about god and having such a line in the pledge isn't disresepct to nonbelievers or to people of other faiths?
> 
> I'm catholic and I support the 1st amendment, as well as the protection of both government and religion.
> 
> taking that line out is a wonderful thing and shows respect toward everyone - especially the minority who believe in godS or in no god at all
Click to expand...


Sometimes I think we Catholics are the only reasonable Christian faith.

But whatcha gonna do?


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

freedombecki said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't heard much about that. So thanks. Yea they definitely need to clean house over at NBC. They let the screeching Wingnuts take over. I mean it did take an effort on their part to omit the word God. NBC has lost so much credibility over the years and i don't know if they can ever get it back. I hope you're right and they are cleaning house. I'll take a wait & see attitude on that though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah they fired keith, shivers up my leg, olberman as one of their first orders of business......i'll try and find you a link or a youtube story or something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Olberman was the guest on Jimmy Fallon Late Night at NBC just the other day, promoting his new job at another station.
> 
> Google shows this today:
> 
> Keith Olbermanns Return to NBC
> By Alex Weprin on June 15, 2011 9:09 AM
> 
> Former MSNBC host and soon-to-be Current TV anchor Keith Olbermann will be returning to NBCUniversal this week but not on his former cable news home. Olbermann has been booked as a guest on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon 
> 
> Some return to unbiased news reporting...
Click to expand...


 Those who get their news from Jimmy Fallon kinda deserve olberman  

I can see his segment now

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMdd0iKo2fg]YouTube - &#x202a;SNL weekend update Canadian pizza marijuana police bust&#x202c;&rlm;[/ame]


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

Kiki Cannoli said:


> NBC also omitted "under God" along with "indivisible."
> 
> ETA: posted second reply in a different thread, ignore this post.  carry on!  you're all doing brilliantly!





Meister said:


> *Merged*



whew, i was going to say WTF!


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

theDoctorisIn said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't heard much about that. So thanks. Yea they definitely need to clean house over at NBC. They let the screeching Wingnuts take over. I mean it did take an effort on their part to omit the word God. NBC has lost so much credibility over the years and i don't know if they can ever get it back. I hope you're right and they are cleaning house. I'll take a wait & see attitude on that though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah they fired keith, shivers up my leg, olberman as one of their first orders of business......i'll try and find you a link or a youtube story or something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I realize that this isn't sinking in, but NBC and MSNBC are separate companies, and Olbermann didn't say the "shivers up my leg" comment, that was Chris Matthews.
Click to expand...


are they both part of the same parent company......oh yeah carry on.

And yes that was matthews.   They are both ninnyhammers.


----------



## Dr Grump

Two Thumbs said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the only people required to say it are immagrants as part of becoming citizens.  Once you are a citizen, you never have to say it again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So why the faux-rage over what NBC did?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you are going to use The Pledge, you should use the whole thing, or be called out for being an asshat.
> 
> Americans are deeply traditional, and you don't fuck with peoples traditions with pissing a lot of people off.
> 
> Ever not have turkey on Thanksgiving?
Click to expand...


The last part of the pledge has been on the end since the 50s..hardly a tradition. And if it's no big deal, you don't mind it being deleted, right?


----------



## Dr Grump

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I should be forced into religion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That isn't the question nor what you desire - you want to silence others who hold beliefs you object to. No one is forcing you to do anything - it is YOU who seeks to force others to be silent - their faith offends you so you will deny them the right to express faith.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What has the first amendment got to do with forcing me to say "under God"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No one has forced you to say anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If some refuse to say that part of the pledge does that make you 'more' American and 'more' patriotic than those who don't?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I couldn't care less about what you do or don't say. It is your desire to silence others that i object to.  You of the anti-liberty left are busy silencing ideas that you don't like.
Click to expand...


I hope you see the irony of this post. I am not trying to silence anybody. I am trying to understand why you need to include in a pledge that is supposed to include every American, something that a large number of people object to. There are churches/temples etc, as well as radio and TV shows, where you can flap your gums under your heart's content....but not on my dime....


----------



## Dr Grump

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's wrong with leaving it out? Religion should be kept in churches, mosques, temples and synagogues. Out of schools, baseball games, or any other past time for that matter...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Homosexuality should be kept in the closet, bathhouses, and private clubs. Out of schools, baseball games, or any other past time for that matter...
> 
> Funny how a couple of word changes reveal so very much.
> 
> Your desire to silence those whom you hate does not negate the constitutionally guaranteed civil rights of others, no matter HOW much better you are convinced you are than those whom you detest.
> 
> I'm agnostic, but will fight to the death to defend the right of others to practice religion as they see fit - in public, on holy-government ground or wherever.
Click to expand...


I do not hate anybody. I have no objection to any religious education in schools as long as ALL religions are taught. How often is homosexuality even brought up in baseball games?

I have no objection to people practicing religion either - in their own time, on their own dime, in their house or place of worship or at a picnic in Yellowstone.

Currently, your arguments are superfluous and bordering on the strawman. You are basically saying "I don't give a shit if religion interferes with your life or not". Sorry, I do.


----------



## Valerie

Dr Grump said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I should be forced into religion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That isn't the question nor what you desire - you want to silence others who hold beliefs you object to. No one is forcing you to do anything - it is YOU who seeks to force others to be silent - their faith offends you so you will deny them the right to express faith.
> 
> 
> 
> No one has forced you to say anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If some refuse to say that part of the pledge does that make you 'more' American and 'more' patriotic than those who don't?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I couldn't care less about what you do or don't say. It is your desire to silence others that i object to.  You of the anti-liberty left are busy silencing ideas that you don't like.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I hope you see the irony of this post. I am not trying to silence anybody.* I am trying to understand why you need to include in a pledge that is supposed to include every American, something that a large number of people object to.* There are churches/temples etc, as well as radio and TV shows, where you can flap your gums under your heart's content....but not on my dime....
Click to expand...




Because a much larger number don't think it's a big deal since it is not a law, it is just an expression...  And no one is forcing anyone to say anything...


----------



## Dr Grump

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely they can pray at a game - just don't ask me to,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it's fine for you to ask them not to...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And don't get all smarmy and say that those who don't pray are somehow a lesser [insert nationality] here, or not as patriotic. Now, I'm not saying you think that, but a lot of people do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If they do, should they be put in prison? What penalty attaches to expression not approved of by you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you should be as free from religion as you can without penalty of favour.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So freedom from speech you oppose, then?
Click to expand...


Um 1) No, I just said they can pray at a game 

2) WTF are you going on about? Who even mentioned prison. They can say what they like, but if they start making out they are somehow more partriotic or whatever, then they can go swing. Because once you start going down that path, then it can never be a good outcome IMO...

3) They can speak all they want, but don't get your panties in a wad if somebody leaves out the last part of the pledge - something that was only added a few decades ago anyway. It's not like it's the lord's prayer or Hannukah or Xmas or Ramadan...


----------



## Dr Grump

Uncensored2008 said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> how is not wanting to be subjected to religion the same as hatred for people of faith?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So your hatred is really just of free speech?
> 
> Those who hold views contrary to yours - and the party which define those views, must be silent?
> 
> Yep, pretty well the standard position of you anti-liberty leftists.
Click to expand...


This isn't even a free speech issue...you're making shit up as you go along....

Oh, I know, you think you are one of these intellectually superior libertarians who think their worldview is the apex of human enlightenment...

Let me put it this way - you're coming across as a Holier Than Thou freedom of speech advocate, which would be great, if that was even the point of this debate....Hint: It's not....


----------



## Dr Grump

Valerie said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That isn't the question nor what you desire - you want to silence others who hold beliefs you object to. No one is forcing you to do anything - it is YOU who seeks to force others to be silent - their faith offends you so you will deny them the right to express faith.
> 
> 
> 
> No one has forced you to say anything.
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't care less about what you do or don't say. It is your desire to silence others that i object to.  You of the anti-liberty left are busy silencing ideas that you don't like.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you see the irony of this post. I am not trying to silence anybody.* I am trying to understand why you need to include in a pledge that is supposed to include every American, something that a large number of people object to.* There are churches/temples etc, as well as radio and TV shows, where you can flap your gums under your heart's content....but not on my dime....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because a much larger number don't think it's a big deal since it is not a law, it is just an expression...  And no one is forcing anyone to say anything...
Click to expand...


But they do think it's a big deal because they bitched about NBC leaving it out.....


----------



## Valerie

Dr Grump said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you see the irony of this post. I am not trying to silence anybody.* I am trying to understand why you need to include in a pledge that is supposed to include every American, something that a large number of people object to.* There are churches/temples etc, as well as radio and TV shows, where you can flap your gums under your heart's content....but not on my dime....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because a much larger number don't think it's a big deal since it is not a law, it is just an expression...  And no one is forcing anyone to say anything...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But they do think it's a big deal because they bitched about NBC leaving it out.....
Click to expand...




And whose panties are really in a wad over the need to leave two words out of an inspirational expression...?


----------



## Shogun

NBC is behind the WARZ ON CHRISTMZZZZZZ!!!!


----------



## Dr Grump

Valerie said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because a much larger number don't think it's a big deal since it is not a law, it is just an expression...  And no one is forcing anyone to say anything...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But they do think it's a big deal because they bitched about NBC leaving it out.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And whose panties are really in a wad over the need to leave two words out of an inspirational expression...?
Click to expand...


Christians it seems....


----------



## JimH52

Tank said:


> NBC apologized



That was a poor apology.  Was it intentiional?  Was it a mistake?  This was a blunder...


----------



## Valerie

Dr Grump said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> But they do think it's a big deal because they bitched about NBC leaving it out.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And whose panties are really in a wad over the need to leave two words out of an inspirational expression...?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Christians it seems....
Click to expand...




I just think the whole thing is pretty silly...  I haven't read this thread but I just wonder why and WHO insists on not including traditional verse?


----------



## JimH52

Valerie said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> 
> And whose panties are really in a wad over the need to leave two words out of an inspirational expression...?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Christians it seems....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just think the whole thing is pretty silly...  I haven't read this thread but I just wonder why and WHO insists on not including traditional verse?
Click to expand...


Did NBC really think that their editing would not cause a fire storm?  Please...


----------



## JimH52

*Jack gets it right!*

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TaHsR_pG6w]YouTube - &#x202a;Cafferty: Why would NBC edit Pledge?&#x202c;&rlm;[/ame]

There is no way that this can be defended.


----------



## Dr Grump

God Yanks boggle my mind sometimes...


----------



## epicfish

A bit disappointed with NBC for their cowardly apology, but I can't honestly say I'm ever surprised when a corporate news station tries to accommodate the loudest of their viewership.  

There's nothing wrong or unpatriotic with being inclusive of all citizens.


----------



## JohnA

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> JohnA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The majority of our founding father's were Christian's. They were not deist's. Even the few who were deist's proclaimed of an active God.
> 
> The Founding Fathers Were Not Deists
> 
> The creator falls under Christians, Jews and Muslims, as many other type of religions do.
> You have the right in this nation to drop the word under God or substitute it. But the majority of this nation is religious and those of you who don't believe, do not have the right to take those words out.
> 
> This is political correctness run amok again.
> 
> 
> 
> we have EVERY right to fight to have the pledge read AS IT WAS ORIGINALLY WRITTEN
> cus you are the *majority *dont make  your opinion right  as it does.nt with any other subject
> the MAJORITY of citizens support the right to abortion
> doesnt mean the  religious right *minority* cant fight to have the  law changed
> 
> the creator  could also mean the flying  spaghetti monster
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you just described why we are a constitutional republic and not a democracy in the USA.
> 
> Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on whats for dinner, liberty is a well armed (or represented) lamb contesting that outcome  -benjamin franklin (minus my "orrepresented")
Click to expand...

 its amazing how many folks want the *right* to afford change but deny others the same right


----------



## FA_Q2

wolf_22 said:


> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> During sunday's US Open golf tournament, NBC ran a segment where they showed kids reciting the pledge of allegiance, which was great.   But they edited out the "under God" words, similar to what president Obama himself did awhile back in a speech I think.    They got a lot of blowback from irrate viewers complaining about the omission, so they apologized saying it was not done to upset anyone.
> 
> Well I'm not sure about that, but I am sure it was done intentionally, as did Obama.   I have to question why, surely they know this is going to inflame a lot of people.   And for what?   You know what, I think it comes down to arrogance, an eliteist position of gov't over God.   It's deliberately done with condescension and shows a lack of respect for any other view but thir own.    It's like we don't care what you think, if you don't agree then you're wrong and should be ignored or at least discounted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a lack of respect for any view but their own...kinda of like how christians think talking about god and having such a line in the pledge isn't disresepct to nonbelievers or to people of other faiths?
> 
> I'm catholic and I support the 1st amendment, as well as the protection of both government and religion.
> 
> taking that line out is a wonderful thing and shows respect toward everyone - especially the minority who believe in godS or in no god at all
Click to expand...

Maybe if you are talking about actually changing the pledge itself but when you are talking about a news station purposefully editing the lines out then you are in another territory.  What they did was wrong in any sense of the word and pushes a particular political ideology without purpose.  They should be getting the message as their rating suck but it seems some people are thicker than others.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

Shogun said:


> NBC is behind the WARZ ON CHRISTMZZZZZZ!!!!



No thats progressives and liberals.....whom are in charge of the newsroom @ NBC .


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

JimH52 said:


> *Jack gets it right!*
> 
> YouTube - &#x202a;Cafferty: Why would NBC edit Pledge?&#x202c;&rlm;
> 
> There is no way that this can be defended.



NBC admitted to doing it on purpose!


----------



## saveliberty

epicfish said:


> A bit disappointed with NBC for their cowardly apology, but I can't honestly say I'm ever surprised when a corporate news station tries to accommodate the loudest of their viewership.
> 
> There's nothing wrong or unpatriotic with being inclusive of all citizens.



It was deliberate EXCLUSION and that is not patriotic.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Jack gets it right!*
> 
> YouTube - &#x202a;Cafferty: Why would NBC edit Pledge?&#x202c;&rlm;
> 
> There is no way that this can be defended.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NBC admitted to doing it on purpose!
Click to expand...




saveliberty said:


> epicfish said:
> 
> 
> 
> A bit disappointed with NBC for their cowardly apology, but I can't honestly say I'm ever surprised when a corporate news station tries to accommodate the loudest of their viewership.
> 
> There's nothing wrong or unpatriotic with being inclusive of all citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was deliberate EXCLUSION and that is not patriotic.
Click to expand...


watch the CNN story.  NBC said it was a decision made by a small group of people to edit the pledge that way, they admit it was on purpose.


----------



## 1751Texan

The term "under God" was added to a second version of the original. That said, it was currious why NBC Sports would omit the phrase if they were going to use the pledge in their "patriotic promo to the US Open. 

I've seen plenty NBC sports shows to know that the pledge isnt usually used in a promo. Maybe NBC got caught up in the "US" Open moment and tried to show "patriotism". If NBC didnt like the current version of the pledge...they should have left it out; I doubt anyone would have complained the pledge wasnt recited before a golf show.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Dr Grump said:


> I hope you see the irony of this post. I am not trying to silence anybody.



In fact you are, you applaud the censorship of words you object to.

Pretty standard for the anti-liberty left.



> I am trying to understand why you need to include in a pledge that is supposed to include every American,



Yeah, you need to rewrite a more multi-cultural pledge. Put in global warming, Gaia - and make it in Spanish!



> something that a large number of people object to.



Maybe one quarter of one percent of the population?

This is you of the anti-liberty left trying to impose your authoritarian rules on others. If you don't like the pledge, you don't have to say it.  You don't get to silence others.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Dr Grump said:


> I do not hate anybody.



ROFL

Yeah, right.



> I have no objection to any religious education in schools as long as ALL religions are taught.



Tolerating the free exercise of religion is neither teaching, nor establishing a religion. I hear things all the time that I don't agree with. McDonalds food sucks - hearing a McDonalds ad proclaiming "I'm loving it" doesn't suddenly convert me to liking their crappy food.

But you anti-liberty leftists are convinced that merely hearing someone pray or utter the word "Jesus" will cause you to burn your Che posters, throw away Mein Kampf and Das Kapital, and join the 700 club. Maybe y'all are that weak minded - I don't know.



> How often is homosexuality even brought up in baseball games?



It was a simile to illustrate the bigotry of your statement. You really didn't get that?



> I have no objection to people practicing religion either - in their own time, on their own dime, in their house or place of worship or at a picnic in Yellowstone.



As long as "those people" stay at the back of the bus, you'll let them be, huh?



> Currently, your arguments are superfluous and bordering on the strawman. You are basically saying "I don't give a shit if religion interferes with your life or not". Sorry, I do.



I don't give a shit what interferes with your life.. I don't hold you as being above others, I don't agree that the rights of some should be crushed to make you more comfortable. I don't hold the hostility toward civil liberties that you do.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Dr Grump said:


> This isn't even a free speech issue...you're making shit up as you go along....



The right to speak or not to speak isn't a "free speech issue?"

ROFL



> Oh, I know, you think you are one of these intellectually superior libertarians who think their worldview is the apex of human enlightenment...



Human enlightenment will continue to develop. I do hold liberty as the pinnacle of human dignity. The most human method of interacting with another is respecting the liberty of others to do as they will, free of restraint or coercion - so long as their actions cause no physical harm and do not involve fraud.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Shogun said:


> NBC is behind the WARZ ON CHRISTMZZZZZZ!!!!



NBC is behind the war on ratings...

(I'm just sayin....)


----------



## Dr Grump

Uncensored2008 said:


> Human enlightenment will continue to develop. I do hold liberty as the pinnacle of human dignity. The most human method of interacting with another is respecting the liberty of others to do as they will, free of restraint or coercion - so long as their actions cause no physical harm and do not involve fraud.



I actually agree with your last. It is how I feel, too. Yet in this and previous posts you don't give a shit if religion intrudes on my liberty. Saving the minority from the tyranny of the majority is obviously not a priority in your myopic view of how your precious republic should be run....


----------



## Dr Grump

Uncensored2008 said:


> Yeah, you need to rewrite a more multi-cultural pledge. Put in global warming, Gaia - and make it in Spanish!
> .



I find this part of your post hiliarious bearing in mind you then go on to say this....




Uncensored2008 said:


> *This is you of the anti-liberty left trying to impose your authoritarian rules on others.* If you don't like the pledge, you don't have to say it.  You don't get to silence others.



Oh the irony.

I do not want to silence others. Is English your first language? This is the third time I have said that I don't want to silence others. I do not object to the pledge per se, but the accompanying drivel. Check out Blitzer and MacWhatshisname "Hand over your heart blah, blah, blah". Patriotic, narcisstic drivel... - IOW, according to Blitzer etc if you don't say the pledge etc, you are somehow a lesser American.

I don't have to be 'under a god' to know that there should be liberty and justice for all. To all those that do, good for them - just don't tell me I need to. Once again, I mention, that the 'under god' part is an add on. If your life and morals are so wanting and vacuous that you need to lean on God to help you through the day, good for you. Me? I know that it is wrong to burgle, rape, kill and steal.


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## C_Clayton_Jones

> watch the CNN story. NBC said it was a decision made by a small group of people to edit the pledge that way, they admit it was on purpose.



And? 

So? 

Theyre a private company with the right to edit or report the news any way they want  including the right to editorialize they hate god and religion. 

Its your right not to watch. 

And there is no censorship, only lawmaking bodies are enjoined by the Constitution from preempting free speech or expression. 

Yet another moronic non-issue from the right.


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## JimH52

GE, the company that paid no taxes, is losing control of NBC...or are they?


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## martybegan

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> watch the CNN story. NBC said it was a decision made by a small group of people to edit the pledge that way, they admit it was on purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And?
> 
> So?
> 
> Theyre a private company with the right to edit or report the news any way they want  including the right to editorialize they hate god and religion.
> 
> Its your right not to watch.
> 
> And there is no censorship, only lawmaking bodies are enjoined by the Constitution from preempting free speech or expression.
> 
> Yet another moronic non-issue from the right.
Click to expand...


As a company dependent upon advertising they are therefore dependent upon public will. Thier action caused an issue with a segement of the population, and that segment let its feelings be known. 

Where was censorship brought up? Regular people called in noting thier displeasure over modification to the pledge of allegence. NBC, noting this displeasure responded out of concern for thier business. 

No government involvment needed. (unless a nipple pops out, then god help us)


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## saveliberty

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> watch the CNN story. NBC said it was a decision made by a small group of people to edit the pledge that way, they admit it was on purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And?
> 
> So?
> 
> Theyre a private company with the right to edit or report the news any way they want  including the right to editorialize they hate god and religion.
> 
> Its your right not to watch.
> 
> And there is no censorship, only lawmaking bodies are enjoined by the Constitution from preempting free speech or expression.
> 
> Yet another moronic non-issue from the right.
Click to expand...


So everyone who called NBC was from the right?  What, you guys don't have any religious folks on your side?  Interesting you suggest NBC hates religion.  I don't recall anyone directly accusing them of that.  Actually NBC is a subsidary of a publicly traded company.  You pretty much screwed up on every point in your post...


Moron.


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## Uncensored2008

Dr Grump said:


> This is the third time I have said that I don't want to silence others.



And the 300th time you turned right around and demanded that those who would say "under god" be silenced...



> I do not object to the pledge per se, but the accompanying drivel.



Yes, the mention of god. You seek to purge the word and idea - I understand.



> Check out Blitzer and MacWhatshisname "Hand over your heart blah, blah, blah". Patriotic, narcisstic drivel... - IOW, according to Blitzer etc if you don't say the pledge etc, you are somehow a lesser American.



Who cares? What influence does Wolf Blitzer have on me?



> I don't have to be 'under a god' to know that there should be liberty and justice for all.



Then don't say it.


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## Uncensored2008

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> And?
> 
> So?
> 
> Theyre a private company with the right to edit or report the news any way they want  including the right to editorialize they hate god and religion.




Yep, and people have the right to protest them, contact sponsors and stop watching.

NBC has formulated a nice plan to exit the television market.


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## manifold

Several days later and still people are melting down about something that had exactly zero impact on their actual lives.

But whatcha gonna do?


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## Uncensored2008

JimH52 said:


> GE, the company that paid no taxes, is losing control of NBC...or are they?



Oh they are indeed - considering that Comcast owns NBC now....


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## FA_Q2

manifold said:


> Several days later and still people are melting down about something that had exactly zero impact on their actual lives.
> 
> But whatcha gonna do?



There is no meltdown, just the simple fact that NBC seems to have committed a gross act for most people: purposefully edited out a mention of god in a patriotic song seemingly for no other reason than the distaste for anything related to god or religion.  You drivel on about many more meaningless concepts daily and yet feel justified posting them here.  Why is it so bad when others point it out.  This is a real issue and a real occurrence of the seemingly forceful pushing of religion out of public mention.  As an atheist, I am still angry at the bullshit omission.  Religion should not be removed for no reason or pushed aside because the few want it.  As long as religion stays out of law and separate from the government I am happy.  When the secularists want to remove religion because they want to replace it with their own bastardized form of religion it becomes a problem.  That hatred of religion/god is not an answer to anything.


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## C_Clayton_Jones

> Yep, and people have the right to protest them, contact sponsors and stop watching.
> 
> NBC has formulated a nice plan to exit the television market.



If were all in agreement, whats the issue? 

The OP and others on the right make it sound as if its some sort of horrendous Constitutional crisis  when its not. 



> The left's religious bigotry and hatred is not something that the majority of Americans agree with.
> 
> NBC capitulated and apologized.
> 
> The majority of Americans, even after decades of relentless leftist propaganda, do not share the left's morals and values. They do not share your abhorrence, hatred, disdain for religion that you, and those on the left, constantly espouse.



Yet more inane Culture Wars nonsense. Tired tactic of the right, devoid of facts and sound reasoning.


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## Dr Grump

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is the third time I have said that I don't want to silence others.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the 300th time you turned right around and demanded that those who would say "under god" be silenced...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not object to the pledge per se, but the accompanying drivel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, the mention of god. You seek to purge the word and idea - I understand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check out Blitzer and MacWhatshisname "Hand over your heart blah, blah, blah". Patriotic, narcisstic drivel... - IOW, according to Blitzer etc if you don't say the pledge etc, you are somehow a lesser American.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who cares? What influence does Wolf Blitzer have on me?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have to be 'under a god' to know that there should be liberty and justice for all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then don't say it.
Click to expand...


1) So are you saying that everything is set in stone? If I object to a piece of legislation, op ed piece in a paper, news item - any kind of communication - then I am demanding people to be silenced? How, um, quaint.....

2) What is wrong with seeking to purge an idea if it is considered a bad one? Or should I sit down and shut up? What was that about silencing others again? Especially when you consider the 'idea' was not part of the original pledge, and the reasons it was added in the first place.

3) It is not what Blitzer thinks of you, but those around you, who parrot the same crap.

4) I wouldn't if it mattered to me. That aside, see point one..


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## Dr Grump

Uncensored2008 said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> And?
> 
> So?
> 
> Theyre a private company with the right to edit or report the news any way they want  including the right to editorialize they hate god and religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, and people have the right to protest them, contact sponsors and stop watching.
> 
> NBC has formulated a nice plan to exit the television market.
Click to expand...


Oh, so now who is trying to silence people? Hmmmmmm


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