# Russell Wilson vs. Peyton Manning - Can Wilson Best Manning's Legacy?



## BluePhantom

I have to admit the title of the thread seems ludicrous.  But humor me for a moment.  First I have to say that Manning is among the best quarterbacks to ever play the game.  I think that had he won another Super Bowl he would be atop the conversation for the best ever.  But nine times he has gone "one and done" in the playoffs against single Super Bowl victory.  I don't think there is any argument that Peyton Manning is probably the best regular season quarterback to play the game, but can anyone even try to argue anymore that he can't win the big game on a consistent basis? Personally, my feeling is "pressure Manning = win the game". That's what Seattle did in the Super Bowl last year.  My conclusion is that if Manning has protection he is almost unbeatable, BUT put shoulder pads into Manning and he will crumble like a cheap paper napkin.   Can THAT be considered the best ever?

I think in some ways Manning best quality is the biggest detriment to his legacy.  Take any season in the NFL and make a comparison.  Track the win/loss records of teams when their quarterback passes for 300 yards against when they have 30 or more carries as a team.  I have done this countless times and what you will find is that when a quarterback throws for 300 yards the team wins about 35% of the time.  When a team runs 30 times they win about 65% of the time. Despite the love of passing by NFL fans the statistics are clear that passing makes headlines but rushing wins games.  But why would anyone try and run when you have Peyton Manning throwing the ball?  The numbers say "run" but Manning's abilities demand a passing attack even though it is a strategy that fails more than it succeeds.  

Think of some great quarterbacks; Dan Marino (never had a running game and never won a title), John Elway (never won a title until he had Terrell Davis running the ball)...Terry Bradshaw had Franco Harris.  Joe Montana had Roger Craig, Jim Kelly (although they didn't win a title) had Thurmond Thomas....and as a segue....Russell Wilson has Marshawn Lynch.

Now when it is pointed out that Wilson is 5-1 in career playoff games a lot of people will say "yeah but he has Lynch and a great defense".  Well...guess what....so did almost every other quarterback that won titles.  In fact quarterbacks who won titles without a running game or a defense (or both) are few and far in between.  But here's what intrigues me.  According to STATS Inc...the quarterback with the best quarterback rating in the playoffs in NFL history is not Manning, nor Marino, nor Elway, Fouts, Montana, or Young.....it's Russell Wilson at 109.6.   The second best is Bart Starr at 104.8.  Is this to say that Wilson is a better quarterback than Manning?  Pfft....no...let's not get silly...at least not yet.  But is he more "clutch"?  Well the numbers suggest he is and it makes me wonder hat the future has in store for Wilson.

I think if the Seahawks repeat as Super Bowl champions this year that Wilson has made a strong case for the Hall of Fame provided he demonstrates longevity...but the rings would be there, the efficiency stats are certainly there, the leadership is there, the star power is there......quite a bit of "ifs" remain....but let's ask this...which would you rather have?  A QB who destroys all records in the regular season and collapses in the playoffs, or a guy that doesn't light up the stats but explodes in the playoffs?  The stats are clear....in the big game Manning chokes and Wilson explodes. 

Again I am NOT arguing that Wilson is better than Manning.  That's absurd.  I am looking at legacy and big picture considerations

 8220 Impeccable 8221 Russell Wilson in rare company after another strong postseason performance HeraldNet.com - Seattle Sidelines


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## william the wie

Yeah, generally speaking the best regular season players are the least likely to have superbowl rings.


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## BluePhantom

william the wie said:


> Yeah, generally speaking the best regular season players are the least likely to have superbowl rings.



So what does that mean for Manning's legacy?  I don't think he can be considered the best quarterback ever at this point because he has shown a history of collapse when it matters.  Would you agree? But if that is the criterion then here we have Wilson who (so far) has been totally clutch in the playoffs.  How do you reconcile the two?


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## Manonthestreet

I have always wondered why they never paired a decent back with Manning .... .....


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## BluePhantom

Manonthestreet said:


> I have always wondered why they never paired a decent back with Manning .... .....


They couldn't afford one


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## Manonthestreet

Wilson will never set any records....he may be the best QB Seattle will ever see........long way to go to be mentioned among the Greats


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## Manonthestreet

Indy better find a way to pair one with Luck or his career might follow same path. Think Manning might be done......


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## william the wie

BluePhantom said:


> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have always wondered why they never paired a decent back with Manning .... .....
> 
> 
> 
> They couldn't afford one
Click to expand...

You've answered the question you asked of me.  In order to have all the starters needed for all sets in all three phases plus competent back up would take game day rosters of 70 something players. A winning team requires the 16th best players in the league +/- 5 places at every position. New England and Seattle do the best job of eliminating the top and bottom 1/3 of players and that is why they are better teams.  As counter-intuitive as it seems the emphasis must be  on eliminating the high salaries of the top 1/3 so there is cap room for eliminating the bottom 1/3 players who slip through and replacing injured starters.


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## HUGGY

Here in Seattle of course we are all in love with our Russell Wilson.

He seemingly is a gift to the team and our town in South Alaska straight from the gods.

He came in dirt cheap.  He says all the right things.  Even in his home life he handles events decisively and properly.  He never takes credit.  He never blames anyone but himself for failures that do come along in football and life. THEN he immediately sets his path on learning from his mistakes and rarely repeats them.  A lot of professional athletes talk about learning from mistakes and few make good on that promise.  Wilson is the most profoundly dedicated to finding a way to "get it right" that I have ever seen.

As was pointed out in the OP he is clutch.  He is more clutch consistently in big games and big moments than any QB I have ever seen and I've been watching Pro football for about 60 years.

I bragged on Wilson pretty heavy in his first season.  I'm an insufferable Seattle homer so I backed off for a while because I saw the writing on the wall and figured I would just enjoy the ride and let the media catch up to what I already knew.

Russell set his sights pretty high.  He hasn't been shy that he is going to try to be the best ever.  That is quite a lofty goal.  Who knows if he will enjoy the longevity.  I think it depends on how long his leg strength holds out. 

Let's say Wilson continues to play at his present level for 5 more years.  AND for 5 more years Carroll and Schneider can keep the players on defense to remain near or at the top.  AND they can develop a replacement for Lynch to keep the run game strong for the next five years.

If Russell Wilson can enjoy the same nurturing team environment that he has had since becoming a Seahawk he could very well win it all more often than not.  If he wins the Super Bowl this season and 3 out of the next five including an unprecedented third consecutive next season he will definitely make it to the HOF just on the strength of three straight. 

Will he ever be considered in the conversation of the best ever?  I don't know.  That's a long way off in the future.

I was watching Andrew Luck today and at times he looked amazing.  BUT as was said in the OP winning is the most important stat.  I don't know that Luck can play good enough to beat the Patriots this season's playoffs next weekend.  I doubt any team in the AFC can beat the Seahawk Defense the way they are playing right now.

I see no Offense on any team left..meaning Green Bay or the Colts or New England that can score enough or possesses the Defense to prevent Wilson and our offense from scoring enough to win the next two games.

Aaron Rodgers looked stiff today. It doesn't appear he will be healed in one week. The Green Bay Defense cannot contain Wilson.  To me it is almost a certainty that the Hawks will be in this upcoming Super Bowl.

It is way too early to include Wilson in any conversation as best ever or even the best in today's game.


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## Toro

Wilson isn't Manning.  He never will be.  He's Fran Tarkenton with a Super Bowl.


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## Toro

Manonthestreet said:


> I have always wondered why they never paired a decent back with Manning .... .....



Edgerrin James was a great running back.


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## HUGGY

Toro said:


> Wilson isn't Manning.  He never will be.  He's Fran Tarkenton with a Super Bowl.



I seriously doubt that Wilson is trying to be a Manning OR Tarkington.

He is MUCH better than Tarkington.  Wilson almost ran for 900 yards this season.  Fran's best season was 376.
Tarkington averaged an 80 rating.  Wilson is close to 100 so far with a playoff rating near 110.

I've seen Tarkington play.  He was exciting but for the most part he was just running for his life.


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## Papageorgio

Andrew Luck with a good line and a good RB would be a thrill to see.

The guy is more impressive each year but unless they get him some help...his career will be a short one. 

Luck is carrying that team, the same way Manning carried that team. 

If Wilson is a HOFer with two Super Bowl wins, so would Eli Manning and Joe Flacco? 

I think Wilson and Luck have a long way to go to be in the same category as Montana, Manning, Brady, Starr, Staubach, Bradshaw, Marino, Elway or any number of QBs.

But both of these QBs are young and have great potential.


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## rightwinger

If he wins one more ring he will beat Peyton Manning

He will not match him for carreer numbers or MVPs


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## rightwinger

HUGGY said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wilson isn't Manning.  He never will be.  He's Fran Tarkenton with a Super Bowl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt that Wilson is trying to be a Manning OR Tarkington.
> 
> He is MUCH better than Tarkington.  Wilson almost ran for 900 yards this season.  Fran's best season was 376.
> Tarkington averaged an 80 rating.  Wilson is close to 100 so far with a playoff rating near 110.
> 
> I've seen Tarkington play.  He was exciting but for the most part he was just running for his life.
Click to expand...

 
Wilson is a different scrambler than Tarkington. Wilson will break out of the pocket to run upfield while Fran would double back trying to buy more time. Tark was more exciting but I think Wilson is a better QB


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## LA RAM FAN

william the wie said:


> Yeah, generally speaking the best regular season players are the least likely to have superbowl rings.


exactly.Manning is a clone of Dan Marino.Marino was lights out amazing in regular season games but in the Big game though,like Manning,he always went into panic mode and choked.The thread title of this SHOULD read can Wilson best Bradys legacy.

Brady is like Montana,a big time quarterback who wins big games.He SHOULD have five superbowl trophys now and would had his teammates not let him down in the games against the Giants.

The last one they lost,they lost because his recievers let him down dropping key third down passes they easily should have caught  at the worst times possible and not recovering turnovers by the Giants.

the first one of course,they lost because of a miracle one in a million catch a player is never going to make on 4th and 10 somehow catching it against his helmet.


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## antiquity

Russell Wilson had a passing rating of 149.2 against Carolina. Not to bad for a second rated passing quarterback. 
Will Russell go down in the same class the Manning, Brady or Rodgers...probably not.... but Seattle is not a passing team. Its a run first to set up the pass while the others I mentioned are a pass first to set up the run..

Its a 'team' game in Seattle and Russel is just a member of that team instead like Manning, Brady and Rodgers being the center and their teams being built around them.


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## rightwinger

I think Wilson will be known for his fine playoff record and doing what is necessary to win big games

Peyton Manning will be known for being a disappointment in the playoffs. Losing home games that he was favored to win and never delivering that big fourth quarter drive to win the big game. Great fantasy football player but never came up big in a big game


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## Treeshepherd

BluePhantom said:


> I have to admit the title of the thread seems ludicrous.  But humor me for a moment.  First I have to say that Manning is among the best quarterbacks to ever play the game.  I think that had he won another Super Bowl he would be atop the conversation for the best ever.  But nine times he has gone "one and done" in the playoffs against single Super Bowl victory.  I don't think there is any argument that Peyton Manning is probably the best regular season quarterback to play the game, but can anyone even try to argue anymore that he can't win the big game on a consistent basis? Personally, my feeling is "pressure Manning = win the game". That's what Seattle did in the Super Bowl last year.  My conclusion is that if Manning has protection he is almost unbeatable, BUT put shoulder pads into Manning and he will crumble like a cheap paper napkin.   Can THAT be considered the best ever?
> 
> I think in some ways Manning best quality is the biggest detriment to his legacy.  Take any season in the NFL and make a comparison.  Track the win/loss records of teams when their quarterback passes for 300 yards against when they have 30 or more carries as a team.  I have done this countless times and what you will find is that when a quarterback throws for 300 yards the team wins about 35% of the time.  When a team runs 30 times they win about 65% of the time. Despite the love of passing by NFL fans the statistics are clear that passing makes headlines but rushing wins games.  But why would anyone try and run when you have Peyton Manning throwing the ball?  The numbers say "run" but Manning's abilities demand a passing attack even though it is a strategy that fails more than it succeeds.
> 
> Think of some great quarterbacks; Dan Marino (never had a running game and never won a title), John Elway (never won a title until he had Terrell Davis running the ball)...Terry Bradshaw had Franco Harris.  Joe Montana had Roger Craig, Jim Kelly (although they didn't win a title) had Thurmond Thomas....and as a segue....Russell Wilson has Marshawn Lynch.
> 
> Now when it is pointed out that Wilson is 5-1 in career playoff games a lot of people will say "yeah but he has Lynch and a great defense".  Well...guess what....so did almost every other quarterback that won titles.  In fact quarterbacks who won titles without a running game or a defense (or both) are few and far in between.  But here's what intrigues me.  According to STATS Inc...the quarterback with the best quarterback rating in the playoffs in NFL history is not Manning, nor Marino, nor Elway, Fouts, Montana, or Young.....it's Russell Wilson at 109.6.   The second best is Bart Starr at 104.8.  Is this to say that Wilson is a better quarterback than Manning?  Pfft....no...let's not get silly...at least not yet.  But is he more "clutch"?  Well the numbers suggest he is and it makes me wonder hat the future has in store for Wilson.
> 
> I think if the Seahawks repeat as Super Bowl champions this year that Wilson has made a strong case for the Hall of Fame provided he demonstrates longevity...but the rings would be there, the efficiency stats are certainly there, the leadership is there, the star power is there......quite a bit of "ifs" remain....but let's ask this...which would you rather have?  A QB who destroys all records in the regular season and collapses in the playoffs, or a guy that doesn't light up the stats but explodes in the playoffs?  The stats are clear....in the big game Manning chokes and Wilson explodes.
> 
> Again I am NOT arguing that Wilson is better than Manning.  That's absurd.  I am looking at legacy and big picture considerations
> 
> 8220 Impeccable 8221 Russell Wilson in rare company after another strong postseason performance HeraldNet.com - Seattle Sidelines



The title of Mr. October is only great in baseball. Somebody should tell Manning that. 

During Russell Wilson's 3 year career, he's turned the ball just over once per game. He had some fumblitis earlier this year while his OL was in turmoil. In the postseason, he's 5-1 throwing a total of one interception. I don't know his postseason fumble number but it's probably close to zero. He's as steady as they come. What separates him is his ability to improvise when necessary and make something out of nothing. 

A perfect illustration of the comparison was a third and 5 situation yesterday when Manning rolled out and had 20 yards of open space ahead of him. This is the playoffs, man! Lose and stay home. Manning could have walked for the 1st down. He made a good pass downfield but the WR got pushed out of bounds. Punt. Wilson would have tucked it and run out of bounds for a 15 yard gain, or juked the defenders and broke it for considerably more. 

As a Niner and Raider fan, I'd love to see Seattle lose. As a Stanford and Cal fan, former USC coach Pete Carroll annoys me. Nothing would please me more than to see Wilson have a terrible meltdown game. But I think it's obvious to everyone that such hopes are far-fetched.


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## LA RAM FAN

Treeshepherd said:


> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have to admit the title of the thread seems ludicrous.  But humor me for a moment.  First I have to say that Manning is among the best quarterbacks to ever play the game.  I think that had he won another Super Bowl he would be atop the conversation for the best ever.  But nine times he has gone "one and done" in the playoffs against single Super Bowl victory.  I don't think there is any argument that Peyton Manning is probably the best regular season quarterback to play the game, but can anyone even try to argue anymore that he can't win the big game on a consistent basis? Personally, my feeling is "pressure Manning = win the game". That's what Seattle did in the Super Bowl last year.  My conclusion is that if Manning has protection he is almost unbeatable, BUT put shoulder pads into Manning and he will crumble like a cheap paper napkin.   Can THAT be considered the best ever?
> 
> I think in some ways Manning best quality is the biggest detriment to his legacy.  Take any season in the NFL and make a comparison.  Track the win/loss records of teams when their quarterback passes for 300 yards against when they have 30 or more carries as a team.  I have done this countless times and what you will find is that when a quarterback throws for 300 yards the team wins about 35% of the time.  When a team runs 30 times they win about 65% of the time. Despite the love of passing by NFL fans the statistics are clear that passing makes headlines but rushing wins games.  But why would anyone try and run when you have Peyton Manning throwing the ball?  The numbers say "run" but Manning's abilities demand a passing attack even though it is a strategy that fails more than it succeeds.
> 
> Think of some great quarterbacks; Dan Marino (never had a running game and never won a title), John Elway (never won a title until he had Terrell Davis running the ball)...Terry Bradshaw had Franco Harris.  Joe Montana had Roger Craig, Jim Kelly (although they didn't win a title) had Thurmond Thomas....and as a segue....Russell Wilson has Marshawn Lynch.
> 
> Now when it is pointed out that Wilson is 5-1 in career playoff games a lot of people will say "yeah but he has Lynch and a great defense".  Well...guess what....so did almost every other quarterback that won titles.  In fact quarterbacks who won titles without a running game or a defense (or both) are few and far in between.  But here's what intrigues me.  According to STATS Inc...the quarterback with the best quarterback rating in the playoffs in NFL history is not Manning, nor Marino, nor Elway, Fouts, Montana, or Young.....it's Russell Wilson at 109.6.   The second best is Bart Starr at 104.8.  Is this to say that Wilson is a better quarterback than Manning?  Pfft....no...let's not get silly...at least not yet.  But is he more "clutch"?  Well the numbers suggest he is and it makes me wonder hat the future has in store for Wilson.
> 
> I think if the Seahawks repeat as Super Bowl champions this year that Wilson has made a strong case for the Hall of Fame provided he demonstrates longevity...but the rings would be there, the efficiency stats are certainly there, the leadership is there, the star power is there......quite a bit of "ifs" remain....but let's ask this...which would you rather have?  A QB who destroys all records in the regular season and collapses in the playoffs, or a guy that doesn't light up the stats but explodes in the playoffs?  The stats are clear....in the big game Manning chokes and Wilson explodes.
> 
> Again I am NOT arguing that Wilson is better than Manning.  That's absurd.  I am looking at legacy and big picture considerations
> 
> 8220 Impeccable 8221 Russell Wilson in rare company after another strong postseason performance HeraldNet.com - Seattle Sidelines
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The title of Mr. October is only great in baseball. Somebody should tell Manning that.
> 
> During Russell Wilson's 3 year career, he's turned the ball just over once per game. He had some fumblitis earlier this year while his OL was in turmoil. In the postseason, he's 5-1 throwing a total of one interception. I don't know his postseason fumble number but it's probably close to zero. He's as steady as they come. What separates him is his ability to improvise when necessary and make something out of nothing.
> 
> A perfect illustration of the comparison was a third and 5 situation yesterday when Manning rolled out and had 20 yards of open space ahead of him. This is the playoffs, man! Lose and stay home. Manning could have walked for the 1st down. He made a good pass downfield but the WR got pushed out of bounds. Punt. Wilson would have tucked it and run out of bounds for a 15 yard gain, or juked the defenders and broke it for considerably more.
> 
> As a Niner and Raider fan, I'd love to see Seattle lose. As a Stanford and Cal fan, former USC coach Pete Carroll annoys me. Nothing would please me more than to see Wilson have a terrible meltdown game. But I think it's obvious to everyone that such hopes are far-fetched.
Click to expand...


you're only the second person I have ever heard of before who is BOTH a niner and raider fan.the first one I heard of was a few weeks ago.


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## Manonthestreet

Of course he didnt run...........leveled same charge against Favre when Vikings lost last game he played........they dont run, to expect them to suddenly be what they aren't is ridiculous. Both were bangd up at the time too.


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## Treeshepherd

9/11 inside job said:


> Treeshepherd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have to admit the title of the thread seems ludicrous.  But humor me for a moment.  First I have to say that Manning is among the best quarterbacks to ever play the game.  I think that had he won another Super Bowl he would be atop the conversation for the best ever.  But nine times he has gone "one and done" in the playoffs against single Super Bowl victory.  I don't think there is any argument that Peyton Manning is probably the best regular season quarterback to play the game, but can anyone even try to argue anymore that he can't win the big game on a consistent basis? Personally, my feeling is "pressure Manning = win the game". That's what Seattle did in the Super Bowl last year.  My conclusion is that if Manning has protection he is almost unbeatable, BUT put shoulder pads into Manning and he will crumble like a cheap paper napkin.   Can THAT be considered the best ever?
> 
> I think in some ways Manning best quality is the biggest detriment to his legacy.  Take any season in the NFL and make a comparison.  Track the win/loss records of teams when their quarterback passes for 300 yards against when they have 30 or more carries as a team.  I have done this countless times and what you will find is that when a quarterback throws for 300 yards the team wins about 35% of the time.  When a team runs 30 times they win about 65% of the time. Despite the love of passing by NFL fans the statistics are clear that passing makes headlines but rushing wins games.  But why would anyone try and run when you have Peyton Manning throwing the ball?  The numbers say "run" but Manning's abilities demand a passing attack even though it is a strategy that fails more than it succeeds.
> 
> Think of some great quarterbacks; Dan Marino (never had a running game and never won a title), John Elway (never won a title until he had Terrell Davis running the ball)...Terry Bradshaw had Franco Harris.  Joe Montana had Roger Craig, Jim Kelly (although they didn't win a title) had Thurmond Thomas....and as a segue....Russell Wilson has Marshawn Lynch.
> 
> Now when it is pointed out that Wilson is 5-1 in career playoff games a lot of people will say "yeah but he has Lynch and a great defense".  Well...guess what....so did almost every other quarterback that won titles.  In fact quarterbacks who won titles without a running game or a defense (or both) are few and far in between.  But here's what intrigues me.  According to STATS Inc...the quarterback with the best quarterback rating in the playoffs in NFL history is not Manning, nor Marino, nor Elway, Fouts, Montana, or Young.....it's Russell Wilson at 109.6.   The second best is Bart Starr at 104.8.  Is this to say that Wilson is a better quarterback than Manning?  Pfft....no...let's not get silly...at least not yet.  But is he more "clutch"?  Well the numbers suggest he is and it makes me wonder hat the future has in store for Wilson.
> 
> I think if the Seahawks repeat as Super Bowl champions this year that Wilson has made a strong case for the Hall of Fame provided he demonstrates longevity...but the rings would be there, the efficiency stats are certainly there, the leadership is there, the star power is there......quite a bit of "ifs" remain....but let's ask this...which would you rather have?  A QB who destroys all records in the regular season and collapses in the playoffs, or a guy that doesn't light up the stats but explodes in the playoffs?  The stats are clear....in the big game Manning chokes and Wilson explodes.
> 
> Again I am NOT arguing that Wilson is better than Manning.  That's absurd.  I am looking at legacy and big picture considerations
> 
> 8220 Impeccable 8221 Russell Wilson in rare company after another strong postseason performance HeraldNet.com - Seattle Sidelines
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The title of Mr. October is only great in baseball. Somebody should tell Manning that.
> 
> During Russell Wilson's 3 year career, he's turned the ball just over once per game. He had some fumblitis earlier this year while his OL was in turmoil. In the postseason, he's 5-1 throwing a total of one interception. I don't know his postseason fumble number but it's probably close to zero. He's as steady as they come. What separates him is his ability to improvise when necessary and make something out of nothing.
> 
> A perfect illustration of the comparison was a third and 5 situation yesterday when Manning rolled out and had 20 yards of open space ahead of him. This is the playoffs, man! Lose and stay home. Manning could have walked for the 1st down. He made a good pass downfield but the WR got pushed out of bounds. Punt. Wilson would have tucked it and run out of bounds for a 15 yard gain, or juked the defenders and broke it for considerably more.
> 
> As a Niner and Raider fan, I'd love to see Seattle lose. As a Stanford and Cal fan, former USC coach Pete Carroll annoys me. Nothing would please me more than to see Wilson have a terrible meltdown game. But I think it's obvious to everyone that such hopes are far-fetched.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you're only the second person I have ever heard of before who is BOTH a niner and raider fan.the first one I heard of was a few weeks ago.
Click to expand...


I was born in SF but lived there less than a year. Lived in Oakland until 4th grade. I grew up a Raider fan (Stabler, Matusak, Casper, Biletnikoff, Alzado, Lester Hayes, Marcus Allen, Plunkett, Christenson, etc.. Became a Niner fan when the Raiders moved to LA. Became a Raider fan again when they moved back to Oakland, but there hasn't been much to cheer about in Oakland for a long time.


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## Treeshepherd

Manonthestreet said:


> Of course he didnt run...........leveled same charge against Favre when Vikings lost last game he played........they dont run, to expect them to suddenly be what they aren't is ridiculous. Both were bangd up at the time too.



He could have hopped on one leg for the 1st down, or crab walked. No Colt was in the same time zone.


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## Manonthestreet

Run Peyton Run,..........right.................


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## LA RAM FAN

Treeshepherd said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Treeshepherd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have to admit the title of the thread seems ludicrous.  But humor me for a moment.  First I have to say that Manning is among the best quarterbacks to ever play the game.  I think that had he won another Super Bowl he would be atop the conversation for the best ever.  But nine times he has gone "one and done" in the playoffs against single Super Bowl victory.  I don't think there is any argument that Peyton Manning is probably the best regular season quarterback to play the game, but can anyone even try to argue anymore that he can't win the big game on a consistent basis? Personally, my feeling is "pressure Manning = win the game". That's what Seattle did in the Super Bowl last year.  My conclusion is that if Manning has protection he is almost unbeatable, BUT put shoulder pads into Manning and he will crumble like a cheap paper napkin.   Can THAT be considered the best ever?
> 
> I think in some ways Manning best quality is the biggest detriment to his legacy.  Take any season in the NFL and make a comparison.  Track the win/loss records of teams when their quarterback passes for 300 yards against when they have 30 or more carries as a team.  I have done this countless times and what you will find is that when a quarterback throws for 300 yards the team wins about 35% of the time.  When a team runs 30 times they win about 65% of the time. Despite the love of passing by NFL fans the statistics are clear that passing makes headlines but rushing wins games.  But why would anyone try and run when you have Peyton Manning throwing the ball?  The numbers say "run" but Manning's abilities demand a passing attack even though it is a strategy that fails more than it succeeds.
> 
> Think of some great quarterbacks; Dan Marino (never had a running game and never won a title), John Elway (never won a title until he had Terrell Davis running the ball)...Terry Bradshaw had Franco Harris.  Joe Montana had Roger Craig, Jim Kelly (although they didn't win a title) had Thurmond Thomas....and as a segue....Russell Wilson has Marshawn Lynch.
> 
> Now when it is pointed out that Wilson is 5-1 in career playoff games a lot of people will say "yeah but he has Lynch and a great defense".  Well...guess what....so did almost every other quarterback that won titles.  In fact quarterbacks who won titles without a running game or a defense (or both) are few and far in between.  But here's what intrigues me.  According to STATS Inc...the quarterback with the best quarterback rating in the playoffs in NFL history is not Manning, nor Marino, nor Elway, Fouts, Montana, or Young.....it's Russell Wilson at 109.6.   The second best is Bart Starr at 104.8.  Is this to say that Wilson is a better quarterback than Manning?  Pfft....no...let's not get silly...at least not yet.  But is he more "clutch"?  Well the numbers suggest he is and it makes me wonder hat the future has in store for Wilson.
> 
> I think if the Seahawks repeat as Super Bowl champions this year that Wilson has made a strong case for the Hall of Fame provided he demonstrates longevity...but the rings would be there, the efficiency stats are certainly there, the leadership is there, the star power is there......quite a bit of "ifs" remain....but let's ask this...which would you rather have?  A QB who destroys all records in the regular season and collapses in the playoffs, or a guy that doesn't light up the stats but explodes in the playoffs?  The stats are clear....in the big game Manning chokes and Wilson explodes.
> 
> Again I am NOT arguing that Wilson is better than Manning.  That's absurd.  I am looking at legacy and big picture considerations
> 
> 8220 Impeccable 8221 Russell Wilson in rare company after another strong postseason performance HeraldNet.com - Seattle Sidelines
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The title of Mr. October is only great in baseball. Somebody should tell Manning that.
> 
> During Russell Wilson's 3 year career, he's turned the ball just over once per game. He had some fumblitis earlier this year while his OL was in turmoil. In the postseason, he's 5-1 throwing a total of one interception. I don't know his postseason fumble number but it's probably close to zero. He's as steady as they come. What separates him is his ability to improvise when necessary and make something out of nothing.
> 
> A perfect illustration of the comparison was a third and 5 situation yesterday when Manning rolled out and had 20 yards of open space ahead of him. This is the playoffs, man! Lose and stay home. Manning could have walked for the 1st down. He made a good pass downfield but the WR got pushed out of bounds. Punt. Wilson would have tucked it and run out of bounds for a 15 yard gain, or juked the defenders and broke it for considerably more.
> 
> As a Niner and Raider fan, I'd love to see Seattle lose. As a Stanford and Cal fan, former USC coach Pete Carroll annoys me. Nothing would please me more than to see Wilson have a terrible meltdown game. But I think it's obvious to everyone that such hopes are far-fetched.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you're only the second person I have ever heard of before who is BOTH a niner and raider fan.the first one I heard of was a few weeks ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was born in SF but lived there less than a year. Lived in Oakland until 4th grade. I grew up a Raider fan (Stabler, Matusak, Casper, Biletnikoff, Alzado, Lester Hayes, Marcus Allen, Plunkett, Christenson, etc.. Became a Niner fan when the Raiders moved to LA. Became a Raider fan again when they moved back to Oakland, but there hasn't been much to cheer about in Oakland for a long time.
Click to expand...


thank god the raiders are back in CHOKELAND where they belong with all the other scumbags.I hated them for invading LA.

Thats Rams territory.hard for me to hate them now since they are back in chokeland where they belong back to being the chokeland faiders.
The only time I ever liked them was when Gannon was there.an aquitance of mine here in kc is friends with him fromhis days with the chiefs  and I got to meet him once so I wanted to them to win the superbowl,Its funny that ever since he retired,they are back to being the chokeland faders again.lol

The raiders are STAYING in Oakland as well thank god despite the delusions some people have around here that they will be back in LA anytime in the future ignoring rhe fact you have to get approval from the majority of the owners which thankfully,will never happen because they will never approve a davis owned raider franchise to move there because they are sore at Al for sueing the NFL to move there in the first place.

when the raiders were in LA,i hated them as much as I hate the dallas fagboys.The team they played each week,I always rooted for that team to win.it was really the OAKLAND RAIDERS that won the superbowl in 84 since the majority of the players on that team came from oakland.they were only LA in name only.

with them back in oakland where they belong though now,its hard for me to muster the same hate for them i had when they were in LA.the same hate that I have had for the Rams for the past 20 years.for the past 20 years,I did the same with them i did with the raiders,rooted for the other team they were playing to win all the time.


----------



## Manonthestreet

Now if Rich Gannon had won the Super Bowl the refs sent the Patriots to instead would he be Hall Of Fame......same argument 2 rings


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## LA RAM FAN

Manonthestreet said:


> Now if Rich Gannon had won the Super Bowl the refs sent the Patriots to instead would he be Hall Of Fame......same argument 2 rings


i assume you mean two AFC rings since he lost the one superbowl he went to? He for sure got robbed of going to the superbowl the refs sent the pats to but its just as well because they would have lost to that phony fraud team that plays in saint  louis at the moment that I refuse to mention the name of. cant say saint louis and then add the name after that  together,never will. I was happy the pats went though looking back cause the raiders would have just lost to them.

Their defense was horrible,their defensive coordinater the raiders had  back then was an idiot,they got to that superbowl that year DESPITE the defensive cocordinater they had,not because of him.

He later became a defensive coordinater of the bengals and I was talking to a bengals fan back then about how shitty he was and even HE agreed saying he could not believe the bengals were stupid enough to hire him.


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## Manonthestreet

Damn could have swore Gannon had ring...........never mind.........


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## LA RAM FAN

Manonthestreet said:


> Damn could have swore Gannon had ring...........never mind.........



only an AFC ring unfortunately for me. the ONE time I like them and they lose,wouldnt you know it.the story of my life.


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## BluePhantom

9/11 inside job said:


> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Damn could have swore Gannon had ring...........never mind.........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> only an AFC ring unfortunately for me. the ONE time I like them and they lose,wouldnt you know it.the story of my life.
Click to expand...


I have a love / hate thing with Gannon because he took me to back to back fantasy football titles (well..Terrell Davis, Jamal Anderson, and Antonio Freeman had a bit to do with it too LOL).  I hate the Raiders with an exclusive passion exceeded only by the 49ers.  But according to the scoring system (points per completion) and the Raiders running that short pass after short pass offense, he was the obvious call.  I have to love him for getting me a couple fantasy rings, but it made me cringe every week to have to cheer for him.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

BluePhantom said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Damn could have swore Gannon had ring...........never mind.........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> only an AFC ring unfortunately for me. the ONE time I like them and they lose,wouldnt you know it.the story of my life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have a love / hate thing with Gannon because he took me to back to back fantasy football titles (well..Terrell Davis, Jamal Anderson, and Antonio Freeman had a bit to do with it too LOL).  I hate the Raiders with an exclusive passion exceeded only by the 49ers.  But according to the scoring system (points per completion) and the Raiders running that short pass after short pass offense, he was the obvious call.  I have to love him for getting me a couple fantasy rings, but it made me cringe every week to have to cheer for him.
Click to expand...


you hate them even with them being back in oakland again?


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## BluePhantom

9/11 inside job said:


> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Damn could have swore Gannon had ring...........never mind.........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> only an AFC ring unfortunately for me. the ONE time I like them and they lose,wouldnt you know it.the story of my life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have a love / hate thing with Gannon because he took me to back to back fantasy football titles (well..Terrell Davis, Jamal Anderson, and Antonio Freeman had a bit to do with it too LOL).  I hate the Raiders with an exclusive passion exceeded only by the 49ers.  But according to the scoring system (points per completion) and the Raiders running that short pass after short pass offense, he was the obvious call.  I have to love him for getting me a couple fantasy rings, but it made me cringe every week to have to cheer for him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you hate them even with them being back in oakland again?
Click to expand...


Well since Seattle moved to the NFC West the hate has waned, but you know, when you grew up despising a team it never really goes away.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

BluePhantom said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Damn could have swore Gannon had ring...........never mind.........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> only an AFC ring unfortunately for me. the ONE time I like them and they lose,wouldnt you know it.the story of my life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have a love / hate thing with Gannon because he took me to back to back fantasy football titles (well..Terrell Davis, Jamal Anderson, and Antonio Freeman had a bit to do with it too LOL).  I hate the Raiders with an exclusive passion exceeded only by the 49ers.  But according to the scoring system (points per completion) and the Raiders running that short pass after short pass offense, he was the obvious call.  I have to love him for getting me a couple fantasy rings, but it made me cringe every week to have to cheer for him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you hate them even with them being back in oakland again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well since Seattle moved to the NFC West the hate has waned, but you know, when you grew up despising a team it never really goes away.
Click to expand...

yeah i understand,I forgot about how they were in the AFC for a long time.Living here in kc my brother and dad always had the chiefs games on so i remember the years with them playing the hawks,Like I said,I liked them when Zorn was there but never followed them after that till Carrol and wilson came along.i have always hated the chiefs,never liked them except for when montana was here,had no choice then since he was already my favorite quarterback ever when he was with the niners.


----------



## BluePhantom

9/11 inside job said:


> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Damn could have swore Gannon had ring...........never mind.........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> only an AFC ring unfortunately for me. the ONE time I like them and they lose,wouldnt you know it.the story of my life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have a love / hate thing with Gannon because he took me to back to back fantasy football titles (well..Terrell Davis, Jamal Anderson, and Antonio Freeman had a bit to do with it too LOL).  I hate the Raiders with an exclusive passion exceeded only by the 49ers.  But according to the scoring system (points per completion) and the Raiders running that short pass after short pass offense, he was the obvious call.  I have to love him for getting me a couple fantasy rings, but it made me cringe every week to have to cheer for him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you hate them even with them being back in oakland again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well since Seattle moved to the NFC West the hate has waned, but you know, when you grew up despising a team it never really goes away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yeah i understand,I forgot about how they were in the AFC for a long time.Living here in kc my brother and dad always had the chiefs games on so i remember the years with them playing the hawks,Like I said,I liked them when Zorn was there but never followed them after that till Carrol and wilson came along.i have always hated the chiefs,never liked them except for when montana was here,had no choice then since he was already my favorite quarterback ever when he was with the niners.
Click to expand...


Well the Seahawks didn't have a lot of success in the AFC West so it was easy to get bitter about our divisional rivals back then.  LOL.  The Hawks had some very good teams in the 80s with Kreig and Kenny Easley....Easley is probably my favorite player ever.  That guy was sent from God to punish people for their sins.  My God he hit hard. Had his kidneys not blown out so early in his career I think he would have been in the Hall of Fame for sure and probably would have gone down in history as one of the best safeties to ever play the game. 

But you know those Hawks teams are, in my mind, proof of how important a good owner is.  Seattle never had a good owner until Paul Allen. I remember the press conference when he bought the team and he was on live TV signing the purchase contract.  The very next thing he did was to sign an order lowering ticket prices until the Seahawks earned the right to charge a higher price.  Then he starts answering questions and says something like "my job is to build stadiums, hire senior personnel, sign checks, and shut the heck up".  It was like "OH MY GOD WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL OUR LIVES?!?!"

Dan Snyder should take note


----------



## Treeshepherd

Manonthestreet said:


> Run Peyton Run,..........right.................


He looked okay rolling out 15 yards. He couldn't have hobbled another 10? Phil Simms 2015 could have ran for the 1st, and he suggested as much from the booth.


----------



## Treeshepherd

Manonthestreet said:


> Damn could have swore Gannon had ring...........never mind.........


Even after the tuck rule debacle, the Raiders got the ball back and had a chance to ice that game. Gannon overthrew a wide open guy on third down and they punted back to NE. Next year, Gannon played bad in the Super Bowl. 

Even so, Gannon and Jeff Garcia with SF proved that you can pick a QB off the scrap heap, pay him $3-$4 million and have success. It's not always the right formula draft a 1st rounder. Sam Bradford comes to mind. Johnny Football. Gabbert. Alex Smith #1 overall? 
Sometimes it's better to use that $ elsewhere.

Grab the best QB from Canadian football, like Warren Moon. Kurt Warner came from the Arena league.


----------



## BluePhantom

Treeshepherd said:


> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Damn could have swore Gannon had ring...........never mind.........
> 
> 
> 
> Even after the tuck rule debacle, the Raiders got the ball back and had a chance to ice that game. Gannon overthrew a wide open guy on third down and they punted back to NE. Next year, Gannon played bad in the Super Bowl.
> 
> Even so, Gannon and Jeff Garcia with SF proved that you can pick a QB off the scrap heap, pay him $3-$4 million and have success. It's not always the right formula draft a 1st rounder. Sam Bradford comes to mind. Johnny Football. Gabbert. Alex Smith #1 overall?
> Sometimes it's better to use that $ elsewhere.
> 
> Grab the best QB from Canadian football, like Warren Moon. Kurt Warner came from the Arena league.
Click to expand...


I have never looked it up but I would wager that most first round quarterbacks have been busts. Some of the greatest to ever play were taken later.  Bart Starr: 17th round. Tom Brady: 6th round. Dan Fouts: 3rd round, Johnny Unitas: 9th round, Joe Montana: 3rd round, Brett Favre: 2nd round, Roger Staubach: 10th round....and just to be an incredible homer...Russell Wilson: 3rd round.


----------



## rightwinger

BluePhantom said:


> Treeshepherd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Damn could have swore Gannon had ring...........never mind.........
> 
> 
> 
> Even after the tuck rule debacle, the Raiders got the ball back and had a chance to ice that game. Gannon overthrew a wide open guy on third down and they punted back to NE. Next year, Gannon played bad in the Super Bowl.
> 
> Even so, Gannon and Jeff Garcia with SF proved that you can pick a QB off the scrap heap, pay him $3-$4 million and have success. It's not always the right formula draft a 1st rounder. Sam Bradford comes to mind. Johnny Football. Gabbert. Alex Smith #1 overall?
> Sometimes it's better to use that $ elsewhere.
> 
> Grab the best QB from Canadian football, like Warren Moon. Kurt Warner came from the Arena league.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have never looked it up but I would wager that most first round quarterbacks have been busts. Some of the greatest to ever play were taken later.  Bart Starr: 17th round. Tom Brady: 6th round. Dan Fouts: 3rd round, Johnny Unitas: 9th round, Joe Montana: 3rd round, Brett Favre: 2nd round, Roger Staubach: 10th round....and just to be an incredible homer...Russell Wilson: 3rd round.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't go that far....
Elway, Marino, Peyton Manning and a slew of others were first rounders


----------



## BluePhantom

rightwinger said:


> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Treeshepherd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Damn could have swore Gannon had ring...........never mind.........
> 
> 
> 
> Even after the tuck rule debacle, the Raiders got the ball back and had a chance to ice that game. Gannon overthrew a wide open guy on third down and they punted back to NE. Next year, Gannon played bad in the Super Bowl.
> 
> Even so, Gannon and Jeff Garcia with SF proved that you can pick a QB off the scrap heap, pay him $3-$4 million and have success. It's not always the right formula draft a 1st rounder. Sam Bradford comes to mind. Johnny Football. Gabbert. Alex Smith #1 overall?
> Sometimes it's better to use that $ elsewhere.
> 
> Grab the best QB from Canadian football, like Warren Moon. Kurt Warner came from the Arena league.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have never looked it up but I would wager that most first round quarterbacks have been busts. Some of the greatest to ever play were taken later.  Bart Starr: 17th round. Tom Brady: 6th round. Dan Fouts: 3rd round, Johnny Unitas: 9th round, Joe Montana: 3rd round, Brett Favre: 2nd round, Roger Staubach: 10th round....and just to be an incredible homer...Russell Wilson: 3rd round.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wouldn't go that far....
> Elway, Marino, Peyton Manning and a slew of others were first rounders
Click to expand...


So was Rick Mirer, Dan McGwire, Ryan Leaf, Jason Campbell, Matt Leinart, Rex Grossman, Byron Leftwich, Patrick Ramsey, Chad Pennington, Mark Malone, Brady Quinn, Richard Todd, Kyle Boller, J.P. Losman, Tommy Maddox, Vince Young, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Kelly Stouffer, Jim Druckenmiller, Tim Couch, Cade McNown, David Klingler, Todd Blackledge, Akili Smith, Andre Ware, Heath Schuler, JaMarcus Russell, and Todd Marinovich.


----------



## Treeshepherd

Yeah, does anyone really think Marcus Mariota is going to come in and have success? 

I like Blake Bortles. I liked him at CF. My fantasy league is dynasty. I drafted him last year and I'm sticking with him at least thru next season. He could be good if J-ville can build a team.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

I don't care if Russel Wilson wins more titles. He is no Peyton Manning. And regardless of any number you want to throw out there (if such numbers exist), it's an absurd notion.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

The OP notes Dan Marino..... He certainly wasn't a 35 percent winner even with no running back and pedestrian receivers. Anyone who wouldn't trade a prime Marino (or Manning) for Wilson is out of their freaking mind. And let's remember that Seattle wins because they are a defensive juggernaut. They have a hell of a lot of room for improvement on offense.


----------



## BluePhantom

TheGreatGatsby said:


> The OP notes Dan Marino..... He certainly wasn't a 35 percent winner even with no running back and pedestrian receivers. Anyone who wouldn't trade a prime Marino (or Manning) for Wilson is out of their freaking mind. And let's remember that Seattle wins because they are a defensive juggernaut. They have a hell of a lot of room for improvement on offense.



Seattle has the #1 running offense and the #10 passing offense.  They are #6 in offensive DVOA as a whole and 10th in offensive points per game. It wasn't the defense that scored 394 offensive points.  I will be happy if they improve on offense but it wont give anyone else much of a chance. You should really educate yourself before you pop off


----------



## Treeshepherd

TheGreatGatsby said:


> The OP notes Dan Marino..... He certainly wasn't a 35 percent winner even with no running back and pedestrian receivers. Anyone who wouldn't trade a prime Marino (or Manning) for Wilson is out of their freaking mind. And let's remember that Seattle wins because they are a defensive juggernaut. They have a hell of a lot of room for improvement on offense.


Clayton and Duper were pedestrian?

Underthrow it to the back shoulder, let his WR adjust before the DB could react. That was Marino's legacy. Throw it up and hope the WR wins the battle. Clayton and Duper usually didn't disappoint.


----------



## BluePhantom

Treeshepherd said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> The OP notes Dan Marino..... He certainly wasn't a 35 percent winner even with no running back and pedestrian receivers. Anyone who wouldn't trade a prime Marino (or Manning) for Wilson is out of their freaking mind. And let's remember that Seattle wins because they are a defensive juggernaut. They have a hell of a lot of room for improvement on offense.
> 
> 
> 
> Clayton and Duper were pedestrian?
> 
> Underthrow it to the back shoulder, let his WR adjust before the DB could react. That was Marino's legacy. Throw it up and hope the WR wins the battle. Clayton and Duper usually didn't disappoint.
Click to expand...


WORD!


----------



## GHook93

BluePhantom said:


> I have to admit the title of the thread seems ludicrous.  But humor me for a moment.  First I have to say that Manning is among the best quarterbacks to ever play the game.  I think that had he won another Super Bowl he would be atop the conversation for the best ever.  But nine times he has gone "one and done" in the playoffs against single Super Bowl victory.  I don't think there is any argument that Peyton Manning is probably the best regular season quarterback to play the game, but can anyone even try to argue anymore that he can't win the big game on a consistent basis? Personally, my feeling is "pressure Manning = win the game". That's what Seattle did in the Super Bowl last year.  My conclusion is that if Manning has protection he is almost unbeatable, BUT put shoulder pads into Manning and he will crumble like a cheap paper napkin.   Can THAT be considered the best ever?
> 
> I think in some ways Manning best quality is the biggest detriment to his legacy.  Take any season in the NFL and make a comparison.  Track the win/loss records of teams when their quarterback passes for 300 yards against when they have 30 or more carries as a team.  I have done this countless times and what you will find is that when a quarterback throws for 300 yards the team wins about 35% of the time.  When a team runs 30 times they win about 65% of the time. Despite the love of passing by NFL fans the statistics are clear that passing makes headlines but rushing wins games.  But why would anyone try and run when you have Peyton Manning throwing the ball?  The numbers say "run" but Manning's abilities demand a passing attack even though it is a strategy that fails more than it succeeds.
> 
> Think of some great quarterbacks; Dan Marino (never had a running game and never won a title), John Elway (never won a title until he had Terrell Davis running the ball)...Terry Bradshaw had Franco Harris.  Joe Montana had Roger Craig, Jim Kelly (although they didn't win a title) had Thurmond Thomas....and as a segue....Russell Wilson has Marshawn Lynch.
> 
> Now when it is pointed out that Wilson is 5-1 in career playoff games a lot of people will say "yeah but he has Lynch and a great defense".  Well...guess what....so did almost every other quarterback that won titles.  In fact quarterbacks who won titles without a running game or a defense (or both) are few and far in between.  But here's what intrigues me.  According to STATS Inc...the quarterback with the best quarterback rating in the playoffs in NFL history is not Manning, nor Marino, nor Elway, Fouts, Montana, or Young.....it's Russell Wilson at 109.6.   The second best is Bart Starr at 104.8.  Is this to say that Wilson is a better quarterback than Manning?  Pfft....no...let's not get silly...at least not yet.  But is he more "clutch"?  Well the numbers suggest he is and it makes me wonder hat the future has in store for Wilson.
> 
> I think if the Seahawks repeat as Super Bowl champions this year that Wilson has made a strong case for the Hall of Fame provided he demonstrates longevity...but the rings would be there, the efficiency stats are certainly there, the leadership is there, the star power is there......quite a bit of "ifs" remain....but let's ask this...which would you rather have?  A QB who destroys all records in the regular season and collapses in the playoffs, or a guy that doesn't light up the stats but explodes in the playoffs?  The stats are clear....in the big game Manning chokes and Wilson explodes.
> 
> Again I am NOT arguing that Wilson is better than Manning.  That's absurd.  I am looking at legacy and big picture considerations
> 
> 8220 Impeccable 8221 Russell Wilson in rare company after another strong postseason performance HeraldNet.com - Seattle Sidelines


*Terry Bradshaw *had 4 superbowl rings, but I don't consider him in the same  boat as Manning! But I will admit his less than stellar post-season performance hurts him. 

Top 5 QB:
1. Tom Brady
2. Joe Montana
3. Peyton Manning
4. John Elway
5. Aaron Rodger (this coming from a Bears fan. When all is said and done, he cracks the top 5)


----------



## BluePhantom

GHook93 said:


> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have to admit the title of the thread seems ludicrous.  But humor me for a moment.  First I have to say that Manning is among the best quarterbacks to ever play the game.  I think that had he won another Super Bowl he would be atop the conversation for the best ever.  But nine times he has gone "one and done" in the playoffs against single Super Bowl victory.  I don't think there is any argument that Peyton Manning is probably the best regular season quarterback to play the game, but can anyone even try to argue anymore that he can't win the big game on a consistent basis? Personally, my feeling is "pressure Manning = win the game". That's what Seattle did in the Super Bowl last year.  My conclusion is that if Manning has protection he is almost unbeatable, BUT put shoulder pads into Manning and he will crumble like a cheap paper napkin.   Can THAT be considered the best ever?
> 
> I think in some ways Manning best quality is the biggest detriment to his legacy.  Take any season in the NFL and make a comparison.  Track the win/loss records of teams when their quarterback passes for 300 yards against when they have 30 or more carries as a team.  I have done this countless times and what you will find is that when a quarterback throws for 300 yards the team wins about 35% of the time.  When a team runs 30 times they win about 65% of the time. Despite the love of passing by NFL fans the statistics are clear that passing makes headlines but rushing wins games.  But why would anyone try and run when you have Peyton Manning throwing the ball?  The numbers say "run" but Manning's abilities demand a passing attack even though it is a strategy that fails more than it succeeds.
> 
> Think of some great quarterbacks; Dan Marino (never had a running game and never won a title), John Elway (never won a title until he had Terrell Davis running the ball)...Terry Bradshaw had Franco Harris.  Joe Montana had Roger Craig, Jim Kelly (although they didn't win a title) had Thurmond Thomas....and as a segue....Russell Wilson has Marshawn Lynch.
> 
> Now when it is pointed out that Wilson is 5-1 in career playoff games a lot of people will say "yeah but he has Lynch and a great defense".  Well...guess what....so did almost every other quarterback that won titles.  In fact quarterbacks who won titles without a running game or a defense (or both) are few and far in between.  But here's what intrigues me.  According to STATS Inc...the quarterback with the best quarterback rating in the playoffs in NFL history is not Manning, nor Marino, nor Elway, Fouts, Montana, or Young.....it's Russell Wilson at 109.6.   The second best is Bart Starr at 104.8.  Is this to say that Wilson is a better quarterback than Manning?  Pfft....no...let's not get silly...at least not yet.  But is he more "clutch"?  Well the numbers suggest he is and it makes me wonder hat the future has in store for Wilson.
> 
> I think if the Seahawks repeat as Super Bowl champions this year that Wilson has made a strong case for the Hall of Fame provided he demonstrates longevity...but the rings would be there, the efficiency stats are certainly there, the leadership is there, the star power is there......quite a bit of "ifs" remain....but let's ask this...which would you rather have?  A QB who destroys all records in the regular season and collapses in the playoffs, or a guy that doesn't light up the stats but explodes in the playoffs?  The stats are clear....in the big game Manning chokes and Wilson explodes.
> 
> Again I am NOT arguing that Wilson is better than Manning.  That's absurd.  I am looking at legacy and big picture considerations
> 
> 8220 Impeccable 8221 Russell Wilson in rare company after another strong postseason performance HeraldNet.com - Seattle Sidelines
> 
> 
> 
> *Terry Bradshaw *had 4 superbowl rings, but I don't consider him in the same  boat as Manning! But I will admit his less than stellar post-season performance hurts him.
> 
> Top 5 QB:
> 1. Tom Brady
> 2. Joe Montana
> 3. Peyton Manning
> 4. John Elway
> 5. Aaron Rodger (this coming from a Bears fan. When all is said and done, he cracks the top 5)
Click to expand...



For me...no disrespect to your call, but for me it depends on what you have in place, what you are willing to do, etc.    Think of it like this...You are the GM of the 2014 Seahawks...great defense, great running game, efficient receivers, and a completely terrible offensive line.You are drafting and can pick Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Russell Wilson.  No lets add in that you can see their NFL abilities in advance.  Who do you take?  If you take Manning or Brady you are insane because both those quarterbacks have the mobility of the statue of liberty and with a terrible o-line your QB has to be mobile.  Wilson is the call in that situation because if you take either of the other two you will have to scrap your team and build another team built around their skill set.  

On the other hand if you have a great o-line in place and great receivers, then sure...take your pick between Manning or Brady.  When Manning was a free agent there was talk about him signing with Seattle and Manning completely dismissed the idea.  In retrospect it makes sense...he knew Seattle's o-line couldn't protect him so he went to a team that *could *protect him...Denver.  That was his best chance for success. 

So who were the top 5 QBs?  Boy that's hard to say because it depends on the situation, the rulebook, and the team around them.  For me I would have to say Elway was the best (closely followed by Marino) even though, as a Seattle fan, I hate him like poison.  Why? Because Elway (and Marino) were one of the few QBs who could do it without a team around them.  Yes Marino never won a SB and Elway only won rings when he had Terrell Davis, but those two consistently and single-handedly led their teams to better seasons than they really should have had. 

Just my opinion


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

BluePhantom said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> The OP notes Dan Marino..... He certainly wasn't a 35 percent winner even with no running back and pedestrian receivers. Anyone who wouldn't trade a prime Marino (or Manning) for Wilson is out of their freaking mind. And let's remember that Seattle wins because they are a defensive juggernaut. They have a hell of a lot of room for improvement on offense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle has the #1 running offense and the #10 passing offense.  They are #6 in offensive DVOA as a whole and 10th in offensive points per game. It wasn't the defense that scored 394 offensive points.  I will be happy if they improve on offense but it wont give anyone else much of a chance. You should really educate yourself before you pop off
Click to expand...


Ooo #10 passing offense! Wooopdy freaking do! Russell Wilson doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Marino.


----------



## Treeshepherd

Lots of great points made in this thread. Peyton Manning has a lot of career passing yards and holds the all time TD record. But the guy is a conehead from outer space. Statswise, he's the Rafael Palmeiro of football. The greatest ever? What are you, a bean counter? 

If you don't see the greatness of Russell Wilson right now, and you don't recognize his greatness, you might as well be any other ESPN pundit who makes the safe and uncontroversial choice every week. 

Russell Wilson is head and shoulders above Manning in every way but actual height. Is he Montana? Is he Unitas? Let's not get ahead of ourselves. He isn't close to that. But is he already better than Manning? No question.


----------



## BluePhantom

TheGreatGatsby said:


> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> The OP notes Dan Marino..... He certainly wasn't a 35 percent winner even with no running back and pedestrian receivers. Anyone who wouldn't trade a prime Marino (or Manning) for Wilson is out of their freaking mind. And let's remember that Seattle wins because they are a defensive juggernaut. They have a hell of a lot of room for improvement on offense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle has the #1 running offense and the #10 passing offense.  They are #6 in offensive DVOA as a whole and 10th in offensive points per game. It wasn't the defense that scored 394 offensive points.  I will be happy if they improve on offense but it wont give anyone else much of a chance. You should really educate yourself before you pop off
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ooo #10 passing offense! Wooopdy freaking do! Russell Wilson doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Marino.
Click to expand...

 Yeah you are right.  Wilson = 1 Super Bowl ring.  Marino = 0


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## TheGreatGatsby

BluePhantom said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> The OP notes Dan Marino..... He certainly wasn't a 35 percent winner even with no running back and pedestrian receivers. Anyone who wouldn't trade a prime Marino (or Manning) for Wilson is out of their freaking mind. And let's remember that Seattle wins because they are a defensive juggernaut. They have a hell of a lot of room for improvement on offense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle has the #1 running offense and the #10 passing offense.  They are #6 in offensive DVOA as a whole and 10th in offensive points per game. It wasn't the defense that scored 394 offensive points.  I will be happy if they improve on offense but it wont give anyone else much of a chance. You should really educate yourself before you pop off
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ooo #10 passing offense! Wooopdy freaking do! Russell Wilson doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Marino.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah you are right.  Wilson = 1 Super Bowl ring.  Marino = 0
Click to expand...


Robert Horry = 7 rings Michael Jordan = 6.

What's your point?


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## BluePhantom

Treeshepherd said:


> Russell Wilson is head and shoulders above Manning in every way but actual height. Is he Montana? Is he Unitas? Let's not get ahead of ourselves. He isn't close to that. But is he already better than Manning? No question.



Harrumph! Harrumph!!!!


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## BluePhantom

TheGreatGatsby said:


> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> The OP notes Dan Marino..... He certainly wasn't a 35 percent winner even with no running back and pedestrian receivers. Anyone who wouldn't trade a prime Marino (or Manning) for Wilson is out of their freaking mind. And let's remember that Seattle wins because they are a defensive juggernaut. They have a hell of a lot of room for improvement on offense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle has the #1 running offense and the #10 passing offense.  They are #6 in offensive DVOA as a whole and 10th in offensive points per game. It wasn't the defense that scored 394 offensive points.  I will be happy if they improve on offense but it wont give anyone else much of a chance. You should really educate yourself before you pop off
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ooo #10 passing offense! Wooopdy freaking do! Russell Wilson doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Marino.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah you are right.  Wilson = 1 Super Bowl ring.  Marino = 0
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Robert Horry = 7 rings Michael Jordan = 6.
> 
> What's your point?
Click to expand...


Well I will take Russell Wilson and the 2013 -2014 Seahawks over Marino's Dolphins any day of the week.  Wilson wins titles...Marino only even gets to the Super Bowl once.  Just stop.  You are embarrassing yourself


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## HUGGY

AWWWWWwww...  He's a fyuckin midget !!!  So what if he wins another ring in his third season.  Lotsa QBs could have done THAT with the Seahawks defense just handing the ball over as pretty as you please.  

As for Wilson leading the league in plays over twenty yards.   SO WHAT !?!?

His AVERAGE to BELOW AVERAGE receivers have all fyuckin day to get open for Wilson's rainbows.

CHRIST ONNA CRACKER !!!  Those receivers don't even have to break stride to get their TDs.  Willson, Baldwin and Kearse got those passes handed to them on a silver platter in Saturday's game.  And why?  Because when Wilson breaks outta contain he is under NO pressure. He has all the time in the world to flip those hay makers out there  into the wild blue yonder without a care in the world.  A REAL clutch QB would stand strong in the pocket and rifle those darts like Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers or yes...even Andrew Luck.  Or Tom Brady.

If it wasn't for the Hawk Defense That SHRIMP would be home licking his wounds like Newton and Kaepernick.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

BluePhantom said:


> Well I will take Russell Wilson and the 2013 -2014 Seahawks over Marino's Dolphins any day of the week.  Wilson wins titles...Marino only even gets to the Super Bowl once.  Just stop.  You are embarrassing yourself



Way to move the goalposts.


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## Toro

BluePhantom said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> BluePhantom said:
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> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
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> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> The OP notes Dan Marino..... He certainly wasn't a 35 percent winner even with no running back and pedestrian receivers. Anyone who wouldn't trade a prime Marino (or Manning) for Wilson is out of their freaking mind. And let's remember that Seattle wins because they are a defensive juggernaut. They have a hell of a lot of room for improvement on offense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle has the #1 running offense and the #10 passing offense.  They are #6 in offensive DVOA as a whole and 10th in offensive points per game. It wasn't the defense that scored 394 offensive points.  I will be happy if they improve on offense but it wont give anyone else much of a chance. You should really educate yourself before you pop off
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ooo #10 passing offense! Wooopdy freaking do! Russell Wilson doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Marino.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah you are right.  Wilson = 1 Super Bowl ring.  Marino = 0
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Robert Horry = 7 rings Michael Jordan = 6.
> 
> What's your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I will take Russell Wilson and the 2013 -2014 Seahawks over Marino's Dolphins any day of the week.  Wilson wins *titles*...Marino only even gets to the Super Bowl once.  Just stop.  You are embarrassing yourself
Click to expand...


"Title"

Not "titles."

At least not yet.

Marino was one of the best all time.  Right now, I'd choose Marino over Wilson.

Jeff Hostetler has won as many Super Bowls as Russell Wilson.  Is he just as good?


----------



## rightwinger

BluePhantom said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
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> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Treeshepherd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Damn could have swore Gannon had ring...........never mind.........
> 
> 
> 
> Even after the tuck rule debacle, the Raiders got the ball back and had a chance to ice that game. Gannon overthrew a wide open guy on third down and they punted back to NE. Next year, Gannon played bad in the Super Bowl.
> 
> Even so, Gannon and Jeff Garcia with SF proved that you can pick a QB off the scrap heap, pay him $3-$4 million and have success. It's not always the right formula draft a 1st rounder. Sam Bradford comes to mind. Johnny Football. Gabbert. Alex Smith #1 overall?
> Sometimes it's better to use that $ elsewhere.
> 
> Grab the best QB from Canadian football, like Warren Moon. Kurt Warner came from the Arena league.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have never looked it up but I would wager that most first round quarterbacks have been busts. Some of the greatest to ever play were taken later.  Bart Starr: 17th round. Tom Brady: 6th round. Dan Fouts: 3rd round, Johnny Unitas: 9th round, Joe Montana: 3rd round, Brett Favre: 2nd round, Roger Staubach: 10th round....and just to be an incredible homer...Russell Wilson: 3rd round.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wouldn't go that far....
> Elway, Marino, Peyton Manning and a slew of others were first rounders
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So was Rick Mirer, Dan McGwire, Ryan Leaf, Jason Campbell, Matt Leinart, Rex Grossman, Byron Leftwich, Patrick Ramsey, Chad Pennington, Mark Malone, Brady Quinn, Richard Todd, Kyle Boller, J.P. Losman, Tommy Maddox, Vince Young, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Kelly Stouffer, Jim Druckenmiller, Tim Couch, Cade McNown, David Klingler, Todd Blackledge, Akili Smith, Andre Ware, Heath Schuler, JaMarcus Russell, and Todd Marinovich.
Click to expand...

 
You can get a list just as long of wasted QB picks taken in the second through seventh round
You can also get a list of busts taken in the first round at every other position

The draft is a crap shoot. But without question, players taken in the first round tend do do better than players taken in later rounds

Look at HOF players and see which round they are generally taken in


----------



## rightwinger

Treeshepherd said:


> Lots of great points made in this thread. Peyton Manning has a lot of career passing yards and holds the all time TD record. But the guy is a conehead from outer space. Statswise, he's the Rafael Palmeiro of football. The greatest ever? What are you, a bean counter?
> 
> If you don't see the greatness of Russell Wilson right now, and you don't recognize his greatness, you might as well be any other ESPN pundit who makes the safe and uncontroversial choice every week.
> 
> Russell Wilson is head and shoulders above Manning in every way but actual height. Is he Montana? Is he Unitas? Let's not get ahead of ourselves. He isn't close to that. But is he already better than Manning? No question.


 
No way do I consider Wilson to be a better QB than Manning. Put Manning on Seattle with that defense and you wouldn't lose a game

But I look at Wilson as a very good QB that does what is asked of him and more. Not being Peyton Manning is not a knock against a QB


----------



## Iceweasel

Manning and Wilson are two different quarterbacks, Peyton doesn't have the moves Russell does and that helps win games too. Looking a passing yards doesn't tell the whole story.


----------



## Papageorgio

Wilson is one of the best decision makers in the game, he is smart and is very athletic. Manning is also a very smart and athletic QB, he did not have the talent surrounding him that Seattle has. The Colts never had the defensive teams that Seattle, New England, Baltimore and on and on. The year before Manning's injury the Colts were 10-6, the following season 2-14, the team was virtually the same. Take Wilson out of Seattle and put in the backup and Seattle will suffer they would probably fall to 8-8. Wilson has support in Seattle. Wilson is a special QB, he is not the pocket passer that most of the greats are. 

If the players were all in their prime, I'd take Montana, Elway, Manning, Brady, Rogers, Favre and several others over Wilson. Not a knock against Wilson he is good QB but I need to see if he has the longevity of the greats.


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## TheGreatGatsby

Toro said:


> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
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> 
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> BluePhantom said:
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> 
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> TheGreatGatsby said:
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> 
> 
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> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle has the #1 running offense and the #10 passing offense.  They are #6 in offensive DVOA as a whole and 10th in offensive points per game. It wasn't the defense that scored 394 offensive points.  I will be happy if they improve on offense but it wont give anyone else much of a chance. You should really educate yourself before you pop off
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ooo #10 passing offense! Wooopdy freaking do! Russell Wilson doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Marino.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah you are right.  Wilson = 1 Super Bowl ring.  Marino = 0
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Robert Horry = 7 rings Michael Jordan = 6.
> 
> What's your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I will take Russell Wilson and the 2013 -2014 Seahawks over Marino's Dolphins any day of the week.  Wilson wins *titles*...Marino only even gets to the Super Bowl once.  Just stop.  You are embarrassing yourself
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Title"
> 
> Not "titles."
> 
> At least not yet.
> 
> Marino was one of the best all time.  Right now, I'd choose Marino over Wilson.
> 
> Jeff Hostetler has won as many Super Bowls as Russell Wilson.  Is he just as good?
Click to expand...


Marino's probably the best QB that ever played, tbh. The dude could threw 30 and 40 yard bullets on the money way better than anyone who ever played. Anyone that doubts that doesn't know or wasn't paying attention. And people that hold it against him for 'not winning the big one'; well that's about like saying Barry Sanders wasn't the best RB ever because his team never won the big one.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Papageorgio said:


> Wilson is one of the best decision makers in the game, he is smart and is very athletic. Manning is also a very smart and athletic QB, he did not have the talent surrounding him that Seattle has. The Colts never had the defensive teams that Seattle, New England, Baltimore and on and on. The year before Manning's injury the Colts were 10-6, the following season 2-14, the team was virtually the same. Take Wilson out of Seattle and put in the backup and Seattle will suffer they would probably fall to 8-8. Wilson has support in Seattle. Wilson is a special QB, he is not the pocket passer that most of the greats are.
> 
> If the players were all in their prime, I'd take Montana, Elway, Manning, Brady, Rogers, Favre and several others over Wilson. Not a knock against Wilson he is good QB but I need to see if he has the longevity of the greats.



Forget longevity; Wilson hasn't hit their level period; nor will he. That's not a knock against him. Certain players have certain ceilings.


----------



## Papageorgio

BluePhantom said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> The OP notes Dan Marino..... He certainly wasn't a 35 percent winner even with no running back and pedestrian receivers. Anyone who wouldn't trade a prime Marino (or Manning) for Wilson is out of their freaking mind. And let's remember that Seattle wins because they are a defensive juggernaut. They have a hell of a lot of room for improvement on offense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle has the #1 running offense and the #10 passing offense.  They are #6 in offensive DVOA as a whole and 10th in offensive points per game. It wasn't the defense that scored 394 offensive points.  I will be happy if they improve on offense but it wont give anyone else much of a chance. You should really educate yourself before you pop off
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ooo #10 passing offense! Wooopdy freaking do! Russell Wilson doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Marino.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah you are right.  Wilson = 1 Super Bowl ring.  Marino = 0
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Robert Horry = 7 rings Michael Jordan = 6.
> 
> What's your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I will take Russell Wilson and the 2013 -2014 Seahawks over Marino's Dolphins any day of the week.  Wilson wins titles...Marino only even gets to the Super Bowl once.  Just stop.  You are embarrassing yourself
Click to expand...


LOL! Would you take Marino and the 2013-2014 Seahawks over any Dolphin's team with Wilson on it? I would, that is a no brainier. Overall Seattle is deeper and more talented than most teams in any given year. I think homer, you are embarrassing yourself.


----------



## rightwinger

GHook93 said:


> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have to admit the title of the thread seems ludicrous.  But humor me for a moment.  First I have to say that Manning is among the best quarterbacks to ever play the game.  I think that had he won another Super Bowl he would be atop the conversation for the best ever.  But nine times he has gone "one and done" in the playoffs against single Super Bowl victory.  I don't think there is any argument that Peyton Manning is probably the best regular season quarterback to play the game, but can anyone even try to argue anymore that he can't win the big game on a consistent basis? Personally, my feeling is "pressure Manning = win the game". That's what Seattle did in the Super Bowl last year.  My conclusion is that if Manning has protection he is almost unbeatable, BUT put shoulder pads into Manning and he will crumble like a cheap paper napkin.   Can THAT be considered the best ever?
> 
> I think in some ways Manning best quality is the biggest detriment to his legacy.  Take any season in the NFL and make a comparison.  Track the win/loss records of teams when their quarterback passes for 300 yards against when they have 30 or more carries as a team.  I have done this countless times and what you will find is that when a quarterback throws for 300 yards the team wins about 35% of the time.  When a team runs 30 times they win about 65% of the time. Despite the love of passing by NFL fans the statistics are clear that passing makes headlines but rushing wins games.  But why would anyone try and run when you have Peyton Manning throwing the ball?  The numbers say "run" but Manning's abilities demand a passing attack even though it is a strategy that fails more than it succeeds.
> 
> Think of some great quarterbacks; Dan Marino (never had a running game and never won a title), John Elway (never won a title until he had Terrell Davis running the ball)...Terry Bradshaw had Franco Harris.  Joe Montana had Roger Craig, Jim Kelly (although they didn't win a title) had Thurmond Thomas....and as a segue....Russell Wilson has Marshawn Lynch.
> 
> Now when it is pointed out that Wilson is 5-1 in career playoff games a lot of people will say "yeah but he has Lynch and a great defense".  Well...guess what....so did almost every other quarterback that won titles.  In fact quarterbacks who won titles without a running game or a defense (or both) are few and far in between.  But here's what intrigues me.  According to STATS Inc...the quarterback with the best quarterback rating in the playoffs in NFL history is not Manning, nor Marino, nor Elway, Fouts, Montana, or Young.....it's Russell Wilson at 109.6.   The second best is Bart Starr at 104.8.  Is this to say that Wilson is a better quarterback than Manning?  Pfft....no...let's not get silly...at least not yet.  But is he more "clutch"?  Well the numbers suggest he is and it makes me wonder hat the future has in store for Wilson.
> 
> I think if the Seahawks repeat as Super Bowl champions this year that Wilson has made a strong case for the Hall of Fame provided he demonstrates longevity...but the rings would be there, the efficiency stats are certainly there, the leadership is there, the star power is there......quite a bit of "ifs" remain....but let's ask this...which would you rather have?  A QB who destroys all records in the regular season and collapses in the playoffs, or a guy that doesn't light up the stats but explodes in the playoffs?  The stats are clear....in the big game Manning chokes and Wilson explodes.
> 
> Again I am NOT arguing that Wilson is better than Manning.  That's absurd.  I am looking at legacy and big picture considerations
> 
> 8220 Impeccable 8221 Russell Wilson in rare company after another strong postseason performance HeraldNet.com - Seattle Sidelines
> 
> 
> 
> *Terry Bradshaw *had 4 superbowl rings, but I don't consider him in the same  boat as Manning! But I will admit his less than stellar post-season performance hurts him.
> 
> Top 5 QB:
> 1. Tom Brady
> 2. Joe Montana
> 3. Peyton Manning
> 4. John Elway
> 5. Aaron Rodger (this coming from a Bears fan. When all is said and done, he cracks the top 5)
Click to expand...

 
I would concur with that list with Rogers having a chance to move up


----------



## Papageorgio

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
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> 
> 
> 
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> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ooo #10 passing offense! Wooopdy freaking do! Russell Wilson doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Marino.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah you are right.  Wilson = 1 Super Bowl ring.  Marino = 0
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Robert Horry = 7 rings Michael Jordan = 6.
> 
> What's your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I will take Russell Wilson and the 2013 -2014 Seahawks over Marino's Dolphins any day of the week.  Wilson wins *titles*...Marino only even gets to the Super Bowl once.  Just stop.  You are embarrassing yourself
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Title"
> 
> Not "titles."
> 
> At least not yet.
> 
> Marino was one of the best all time.  Right now, I'd choose Marino over Wilson.
> 
> Jeff Hostetler has won as many Super Bowls as Russell Wilson.  Is he just as good?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Marino's probably the best QB that ever played, tbh. The dude could threw 30 and 40 yard bullets on the money way better than anyone who ever played. Anyone that doubts that doesn't know or wasn't paying attention. And people that hold it against him for 'not winning the big one'; well that's about like saying Barry Sanders wasn't the best RB ever because his team never won the big one.
Click to expand...


I think of Stockton and Malone, they never won a tittle in the Jordan era. I think Malone was one of the best big men of all time and Stockton one of the best of all time. I remember the Trailblazers trading for Buck Williams to try to neutralize Malone.


----------



## HUGGY

rightwinger said:


> Treeshepherd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of great points made in this thread. Peyton Manning has a lot of career passing yards and holds the all time TD record. But the guy is a conehead from outer space. Statswise, he's the Rafael Palmeiro of football. The greatest ever? What are you, a bean counter?
> 
> If you don't see the greatness of Russell Wilson right now, and you don't recognize his greatness, you might as well be any other ESPN pundit who makes the safe and uncontroversial choice every week.
> 
> Russell Wilson is head and shoulders above Manning in every way but actual height. Is he Montana? Is he Unitas? Let's not get ahead of ourselves. He isn't close to that. But is he already better than Manning? No question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No way do I consider Wilson to be a better QB than Manning. *Put Manning on Seattle with that defense and you wouldn't lose a game*
> 
> But I look at Wilson as a very good QB that does what is asked of him and more. Not being Peyton Manning is not a knock against a QB
Click to expand...


Nonsense.  With Seattle's O-Line Manning would struggle to win a game.  Our injuries of the big guys on offense over the last two seasons were horrendous.  Manning would have gotten his chicken and titanium neck broke again.

The ONLY reason we have been winning is that Wilson has broken contain on more occasions I can shake a stick at and pulled our asses out of the fire.

Truth is that it is impossible to compare the two QBs.  They do different things and have different responsibilities.  Wilson isn't tall enough to be the pocket passer that Manning is...and Manning couldn't escape like Wilson even in his dreams.


----------



## HUGGY

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ooo #10 passing offense! Wooopdy freaking do! Russell Wilson doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Marino.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah you are right.  Wilson = 1 Super Bowl ring.  Marino = 0
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Robert Horry = 7 rings Michael Jordan = 6.
> 
> What's your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I will take Russell Wilson and the 2013 -2014 Seahawks over Marino's Dolphins any day of the week.  Wilson wins *titles*...Marino only even gets to the Super Bowl once.  Just stop.  You are embarrassing yourself
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Title"
> 
> Not "titles."
> 
> At least not yet.
> 
> Marino was one of the best all time.  Right now, I'd choose Marino over Wilson.
> 
> Jeff Hostetler has won as many Super Bowls as Russell Wilson.  Is he just as good?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Marino's probably the best QB that ever played, tbh. The dude could threw 30 and 40 yard bullets on the money way better than anyone who ever played. Anyone that doubts that doesn't know or wasn't paying attention. And people that hold it against him for 'not winning the big one'; well that's about like saying Barry Sanders wasn't the best RB ever because his team never won the big one.
Click to expand...


Excuse me but seriously dude Marino has had two or three of the most talented receivers on his teams that the NFL has ever seen.

He had the one crazy good season..over 5000 yards with a QB rating of 108.  even with that his average rating was 86.  He had about half a dozen seasons over 4000 yards.  He also threw a buttload of interceptions....252 over 17 years.  Them's turnovers Sport.  When you give the ball away that often you frequently have to throw your ass off to make up for it.

Ya..Marino was pretty good but let's not get crazy.  There is a reason/s he never won a Super Bowl ring.


----------



## BluePhantom

rightwinger said:


> Treeshepherd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of great points made in this thread. Peyton Manning has a lot of career passing yards and holds the all time TD record. But the guy is a conehead from outer space. Statswise, he's the Rafael Palmeiro of football. The greatest ever? What are you, a bean counter?
> 
> If you don't see the greatness of Russell Wilson right now, and you don't recognize his greatness, you might as well be any other ESPN pundit who makes the safe and uncontroversial choice every week.
> 
> Russell Wilson is head and shoulders above Manning in every way but actual height. Is he Montana? Is he Unitas? Let's not get ahead of ourselves. He isn't close to that. But is he already better than Manning? No question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No way do I consider Wilson to be a better QB than Manning. Put Manning on Seattle with that defense and you wouldn't lose a game
> 
> But I look at Wilson as a very good QB that does what is asked of him and more. Not being Peyton Manning is not a knock against a QB
Click to expand...


Put Manning on the Seahawks and they wouldn't make the playoffs.  Seattle's o-line is terrible at pass protection.  Manning has all the mobility of the statue of liberty.  Manning would get beaten like a drum if he played for Seattle and when Manning gets hit he crumbles like a stale cookie


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

HUGGY said:


> Excuse me but seriously dude Marino has had two or three of the most talented receivers on his teams that the NFL has ever seen.
> 
> He had the one crazy good season..over 5000 yards with a QB rating of 108.  even with that his average rating was 86.  He had about half a dozen seasons over 4000 yards.  He also threw a buttload of interceptions....252 over 17 years.  Them's turnovers Sport.  When you give the ball away that often you frequently have to throw your ass off to make up for it.
> 
> Ya..Marino was pretty good but let's not get crazy.  There is a reason/s he never won a Super Bowl ring.



When Marino retired, he was easily the all-time yards leader. And he did it with Mark Clayton and Mark Duper  as his best targets; very forgettable receivers (in fact, I had to look them up to remember their names). So, you stop going homer and face the facts.


----------



## Papageorgio

BluePhantom said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Treeshepherd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of great points made in this thread. Peyton Manning has a lot of career passing yards and holds the all time TD record. But the guy is a conehead from outer space. Statswise, he's the Rafael Palmeiro of football. The greatest ever? What are you, a bean counter?
> 
> If you don't see the greatness of Russell Wilson right now, and you don't recognize his greatness, you might as well be any other ESPN pundit who makes the safe and uncontroversial choice every week.
> 
> Russell Wilson is head and shoulders above Manning in every way but actual height. Is he Montana? Is he Unitas? Let's not get ahead of ourselves. He isn't close to that. But is he already better than Manning? No question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No way do I consider Wilson to be a better QB than Manning. Put Manning on Seattle with that defense and you wouldn't lose a game
> 
> But I look at Wilson as a very good QB that does what is asked of him and more. Not being Peyton Manning is not a knock against a QB
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Put Manning on the Seahawks and they wouldn't make the playoffs.  Seattle's o-line is terrible at pass protection.  Manning has all the mobility of the statue of liberty.  Manning would get beaten like a drum if he played for Seattle and when Manning gets hit he crumbles like a stale cookie
Click to expand...


You kidding? Manning with a decent line which Seattle is above average, they are winners. You are now sounding a bit crazy.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Anyone arguing that Wilson is better than Marino let alone in his realm, needs to read this article and then stfu. I'm not even going to argue it further otherwise....

The Erroneous Perception of Dan Marino Bleacher Report

It details just how good he was individually, noting that his 48 TDs in a season then would be like 62 today; and then it notes what everyone knows; that it takes a team to win championships.



> I did a little research regarding the 17 Super Bowl winning teams during Dan Marino's career. I noticed that there were two things that stuck out almost every time. Most of those teams had a 1,000 yard rusher and most teams had a top 10 defense. I hit the books and totaled the frequencies.
> 
> 13 out of the 17 teams possessed a 1,000 yard rusher.
> 
> 16 out of the 17 teams had a Top-10 ranked defense.
> 
> Meanwhile, *Marino played with a 1,000 yard rusher only once during his 17 seasons. *He played with a top-10 defense in only four out of his 17 seasons.





> To think that Dan Marino was as productive as he was without a running game to balance the passing game and without a defense to balance the offense is beyond logic. That makes his statistics far more impressive then other quarterbacks who had the benefit of a running game and defense to lean on.
> 
> * Defenses knew Marino was going to throw instead of run—and still couldn't stop him*.


----------



## BluePhantom

Papageorgio said:


> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Treeshepherd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of great points made in this thread. Peyton Manning has a lot of career passing yards and holds the all time TD record. But the guy is a conehead from outer space. Statswise, he's the Rafael Palmeiro of football. The greatest ever? What are you, a bean counter?
> 
> If you don't see the greatness of Russell Wilson right now, and you don't recognize his greatness, you might as well be any other ESPN pundit who makes the safe and uncontroversial choice every week.
> 
> Russell Wilson is head and shoulders above Manning in every way but actual height. Is he Montana? Is he Unitas? Let's not get ahead of ourselves. He isn't close to that. But is he already better than Manning? No question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No way do I consider Wilson to be a better QB than Manning. Put Manning on Seattle with that defense and you wouldn't lose a game
> 
> But I look at Wilson as a very good QB that does what is asked of him and more. Not being Peyton Manning is not a knock against a QB
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Put Manning on the Seahawks and they wouldn't make the playoffs.  Seattle's o-line is terrible at pass protection.  Manning has all the mobility of the statue of liberty.  Manning would get beaten like a drum if he played for Seattle and when Manning gets hit he crumbles like a stale cookie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You kidding? Manning with a decent line which Seattle is above average, they are winners. You are now sounding a bit crazy.
Click to expand...


Seattle has a very good run blocking line.  Their pass protection is terrible.  Footballoutsiders has them at 24th in pass protection.  They allowed 42 sacks in the regular season which ties them for 20th.  Russell Wilson rushed 118 times this year and it's VERY rare that the Seahawks call a designed quarterback run.  I would guess that Wilson had to scramble out of pressure on probably half of those (with read options making up the rest).  So that's 42 sacks plus an estimated 59 scrambles....pfft.  Manning wouldn't have survived the season.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

BluePhantom said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Treeshepherd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of great points made in this thread. Peyton Manning has a lot of career passing yards and holds the all time TD record. But the guy is a conehead from outer space. Statswise, he's the Rafael Palmeiro of football. The greatest ever? What are you, a bean counter?
> 
> If you don't see the greatness of Russell Wilson right now, and you don't recognize his greatness, you might as well be any other ESPN pundit who makes the safe and uncontroversial choice every week.
> 
> Russell Wilson is head and shoulders above Manning in every way but actual height. Is he Montana? Is he Unitas? Let's not get ahead of ourselves. He isn't close to that. But is he already better than Manning? No question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No way do I consider Wilson to be a better QB than Manning. Put Manning on Seattle with that defense and you wouldn't lose a game
> 
> But I look at Wilson as a very good QB that does what is asked of him and more. Not being Peyton Manning is not a knock against a QB
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Put Manning on the Seahawks and they wouldn't make the playoffs.  Seattle's o-line is terrible at pass protection.  Manning has all the mobility of the statue of liberty.  Manning would get beaten like a drum if he played for Seattle and when Manning gets hit he crumbles like a stale cookie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You kidding? Manning with a decent line which Seattle is above average, they are winners. You are now sounding a bit crazy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seattle has a very good run blocking line.  Their pass protection is terrible.  Footballoutsiders has them at 24th in pass protection.  They allowed 42 sacks in the regular season which ties them for 20th.  Russell Wilson rushed 118 times this year and it's VERY rare that the Seahawks call a designed quarterback run.  I would guess that Wilson had to scramble out of pressure on probably half of those (with read options making up the rest).  So that's 42 sacks plus an estimated 59 scrambles....pfft.  Manning wouldn't have survived the season.
Click to expand...


How many of those sacks are due to Wilson not being able to make quick enough reads because of his lack of confidence in throwing from the pocket? I went to a game at Lambeau in 08. Favre's line was the worst I've ever seen. The rushers were in on him constantly but he had the confidence to take the hits and fling the rock and they eventually won a game they had no business winning.

With a similar quality line, Rodgers wasn't making quick reads and the Packers then gave up the most sacks.


----------



## BluePhantom

TheGreatGatsby said:


> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Treeshepherd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of great points made in this thread. Peyton Manning has a lot of career passing yards and holds the all time TD record. But the guy is a conehead from outer space. Statswise, he's the Rafael Palmeiro of football. The greatest ever? What are you, a bean counter?
> 
> If you don't see the greatness of Russell Wilson right now, and you don't recognize his greatness, you might as well be any other ESPN pundit who makes the safe and uncontroversial choice every week.
> 
> Russell Wilson is head and shoulders above Manning in every way but actual height. Is he Montana? Is he Unitas? Let's not get ahead of ourselves. He isn't close to that. But is he already better than Manning? No question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No way do I consider Wilson to be a better QB than Manning. Put Manning on Seattle with that defense and you wouldn't lose a game
> 
> But I look at Wilson as a very good QB that does what is asked of him and more. Not being Peyton Manning is not a knock against a QB
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Put Manning on the Seahawks and they wouldn't make the playoffs.  Seattle's o-line is terrible at pass protection.  Manning has all the mobility of the statue of liberty.  Manning would get beaten like a drum if he played for Seattle and when Manning gets hit he crumbles like a stale cookie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You kidding? Manning with a decent line which Seattle is above average, they are winners. You are now sounding a bit crazy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seattle has a very good run blocking line.  Their pass protection is terrible.  Footballoutsiders has them at 24th in pass protection.  They allowed 42 sacks in the regular season which ties them for 20th.  Russell Wilson rushed 118 times this year and it's VERY rare that the Seahawks call a designed quarterback run.  I would guess that Wilson had to scramble out of pressure on probably half of those (with read options making up the rest).  So that's 42 sacks plus an estimated 59 scrambles....pfft.  Manning wouldn't have survived the season.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many of those sacks are due to Wilson not being able to make quick enough reads because of his lack of confidence in throwing from the pocket? I went to a game at Lambeau in 07. Favre's line was the worst I've ever seen. The rushers were in on him constantly but he had the confidence to take the hits and fling the rock and they eventually won a game they had no business winning.
> 
> With a similar quality line in 09 or 10, Rodgers wasn't making quick reads and the Packers then gave up the most sacks.
Click to expand...

  zero.  You can say a lot of things about Wilson but lacking confidence is not one of them.  He throws just fine from the pocket BTW.  Watch a game or two and you will see just how quickly defensive linemen blaze through Seattle's o-line, especially on the right side.  They may as well put me out there at right tackle.  I can get steamrolled just as effectively


----------



## Judicial review

No, but Aaron Rogers from Packers will. Morons.  Do i have to fix every thread now?


----------



## Papageorgio

Judicial review said:


> No, but Aaron Rogers from Packers will. Morons.  Do i have to fix every thread now?



The best way you can fix anything is not to post.


----------



## Judicial review

Papageorgio said:


> Judicial review said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, but Aaron Rogers from Packers will. Morons.  Do i have to fix every thread now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The best way you can fix anything is not to post.
Click to expand...


You guys need me very badly.  This is getting weird.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

TheGreatGatsby said:


> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Treeshepherd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of great points made in this thread. Peyton Manning has a lot of career passing yards and holds the all time TD record. But the guy is a conehead from outer space. Statswise, he's the Rafael Palmeiro of football. The greatest ever? What are you, a bean counter?
> 
> If you don't see the greatness of Russell Wilson right now, and you don't recognize his greatness, you might as well be any other ESPN pundit who makes the safe and uncontroversial choice every week.
> 
> Russell Wilson is head and shoulders above Manning in every way but actual height. Is he Montana? Is he Unitas? Let's not get ahead of ourselves. He isn't close to that. But is he already better than Manning? No question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No way do I consider Wilson to be a better QB than Manning. Put Manning on Seattle with that defense and you wouldn't lose a game
> 
> But I look at Wilson as a very good QB that does what is asked of him and more. Not being Peyton Manning is not a knock against a QB
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Put Manning on the Seahawks and they wouldn't make the playoffs.  Seattle's o-line is terrible at pass protection.  Manning has all the mobility of the statue of liberty.  Manning would get beaten like a drum if he played for Seattle and when Manning gets hit he crumbles like a stale cookie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You kidding? Manning with a decent line which Seattle is above average, they are winners. You are now sounding a bit crazy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seattle has a very good run blocking line.  Their pass protection is terrible.  Footballoutsiders has them at 24th in pass protection.  They allowed 42 sacks in the regular season which ties them for 20th.  Russell Wilson rushed 118 times this year and it's VERY rare that the Seahawks call a designed quarterback run.  I would guess that Wilson had to scramble out of pressure on probably half of those (with read options making up the rest).  So that's 42 sacks plus an estimated 59 scrambles....pfft.  Manning wouldn't have survived the season.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many of those sacks are due to Wilson not being able to make quick enough reads because of his lack of confidence in throwing from the pocket? I went to a game at Lambeau in 08. Favre's line was the worst I've ever seen. The rushers were in on him constantly but he had the confidence to take the hits and fling the rock and they eventually won a game they had no business winning.
> 
> With a similar quality line, Rodgers wasn't making quick reads and the Packers then gave up the most sacks.
Click to expand...


Dude thats an unfair compariso using Farve  in the fact Farve had been around in the league much longer than wilson has,is bigger and able to adsorb hits that someone smaller like wilson cant.Plus Farve was a rare breed able to take punishment no other quarterback has been able to over a long period of time.

a more favorable comprison would be between wilson and flutie who was more the size wilson is.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

BluePhantom said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> No way do I consider Wilson to be a better QB than Manning. Put Manning on Seattle with that defense and you wouldn't lose a game
> 
> But I look at Wilson as a very good QB that does what is asked of him and more. Not being Peyton Manning is not a knock against a QB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Put Manning on the Seahawks and they wouldn't make the playoffs.  Seattle's o-line is terrible at pass protection.  Manning has all the mobility of the statue of liberty.  Manning would get beaten like a drum if he played for Seattle and when Manning gets hit he crumbles like a stale cookie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You kidding? Manning with a decent line which Seattle is above average, they are winners. You are now sounding a bit crazy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seattle has a very good run blocking line.  Their pass protection is terrible.  Footballoutsiders has them at 24th in pass protection.  They allowed 42 sacks in the regular season which ties them for 20th.  Russell Wilson rushed 118 times this year and it's VERY rare that the Seahawks call a designed quarterback run.  I would guess that Wilson had to scramble out of pressure on probably half of those (with read options making up the rest).  So that's 42 sacks plus an estimated 59 scrambles....pfft.  Manning wouldn't have survived the season.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many of those sacks are due to Wilson not being able to make quick enough reads because of his lack of confidence in throwing from the pocket? I went to a game at Lambeau in 07. Favre's line was the worst I've ever seen. The rushers were in on him constantly but he had the confidence to take the hits and fling the rock and they eventually won a game they had no business winning.
> 
> With a similar quality line in 09 or 10, Rodgers wasn't making quick reads and the Packers then gave up the most sacks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> zero.  You can say a lot of things about Wilson but lacking confidence is not one of them.  He throws just fine from the pocket BTW.  Watch a game or two and you will see just how quickly defensive linemen blaze through Seattle's o-line, especially on the right side.  They may as well put me out there at right tackle.  I can get steamrolled just as effectively
Click to expand...


You took him to school big time,game over,checkmate.Blue Phantom wins.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

BluePhantom said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> No way do I consider Wilson to be a better QB than Manning. Put Manning on Seattle with that defense and you wouldn't lose a game
> 
> But I look at Wilson as a very good QB that does what is asked of him and more. Not being Peyton Manning is not a knock against a QB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Put Manning on the Seahawks and they wouldn't make the playoffs.  Seattle's o-line is terrible at pass protection.  Manning has all the mobility of the statue of liberty.  Manning would get beaten like a drum if he played for Seattle and when Manning gets hit he crumbles like a stale cookie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You kidding? Manning with a decent line which Seattle is above average, they are winners. You are now sounding a bit crazy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seattle has a very good run blocking line.  Their pass protection is terrible.  Footballoutsiders has them at 24th in pass protection.  They allowed 42 sacks in the regular season which ties them for 20th.  Russell Wilson rushed 118 times this year and it's VERY rare that the Seahawks call a designed quarterback run.  I would guess that Wilson had to scramble out of pressure on probably half of those (with read options making up the rest).  So that's 42 sacks plus an estimated 59 scrambles....pfft.  Manning wouldn't have survived the season.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many of those sacks are due to Wilson not being able to make quick enough reads because of his lack of confidence in throwing from the pocket? I went to a game at Lambeau in 07. Favre's line was the worst I've ever seen. The rushers were in on him constantly but he had the confidence to take the hits and fling the rock and they eventually won a game they had no business winning.
> 
> With a similar quality line in 09 or 10, Rodgers wasn't making quick reads and the Packers then gave up the most sacks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> zero.  You can say a lot of things about Wilson but lacking confidence is not one of them.  He throws just fine from the pocket BTW.  Watch a game or two and you will see just how quickly defensive linemen blaze through Seattle's o-line, especially on the right side.  They may as well put me out there at right tackle.  I can get steamrolled just as effectively
Click to expand...


Yea, WIlson is blazing with confidence; throwing 20 TDs and 200 yards per game. Peyton doubled Wilson's TDs this year and last year  The fact that you even think to compare them shows how disassociated you are with reality.


----------



## BluePhantom

TheGreatGatsby said:


> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> Put Manning on the Seahawks and they wouldn't make the playoffs.  Seattle's o-line is terrible at pass protection.  Manning has all the mobility of the statue of liberty.  Manning would get beaten like a drum if he played for Seattle and when Manning gets hit he crumbles like a stale cookie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You kidding? Manning with a decent line which Seattle is above average, they are winners. You are now sounding a bit crazy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seattle has a very good run blocking line.  Their pass protection is terrible.  Footballoutsiders has them at 24th in pass protection.  They allowed 42 sacks in the regular season which ties them for 20th.  Russell Wilson rushed 118 times this year and it's VERY rare that the Seahawks call a designed quarterback run.  I would guess that Wilson had to scramble out of pressure on probably half of those (with read options making up the rest).  So that's 42 sacks plus an estimated 59 scrambles....pfft.  Manning wouldn't have survived the season.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many of those sacks are due to Wilson not being able to make quick enough reads because of his lack of confidence in throwing from the pocket? I went to a game at Lambeau in 07. Favre's line was the worst I've ever seen. The rushers were in on him constantly but he had the confidence to take the hits and fling the rock and they eventually won a game they had no business winning.
> 
> With a similar quality line in 09 or 10, Rodgers wasn't making quick reads and the Packers then gave up the most sacks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> zero.  You can say a lot of things about Wilson but lacking confidence is not one of them.  He throws just fine from the pocket BTW.  Watch a game or two and you will see just how quickly defensive linemen blaze through Seattle's o-line, especially on the right side.  They may as well put me out there at right tackle.  I can get steamrolled just as effectively
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yea, WIlson is blazing with confidence; throwing 20 TDs and 200 yards per game. Peyton doubled Wilson's TDs this year and last year  The fact that you even think to compare them shows how disassociated you are with reality.
Click to expand...


Wilson also has the highest career quarterback rating in the playoffs in NFL history; better than Aikman, better than Favre, better than Montana, Marino, Rodgers, Brees, Bradshaw, Unitas, Starr, Brady, Staubach, and yes far better than Manning.  No quarterback in the history of the NFL has exploded in the playoffs like Russell Wilson has the last three years.  I'd say he is pretty confident.

 Impeccable Russell Wilson in rare company after another strong postseason performance HeraldNet.com - Seattle Sidelines


----------



## LA RAM FAN

BluePhantom said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> You kidding? Manning with a decent line which Seattle is above average, they are winners. You are now sounding a bit crazy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle has a very good run blocking line.  Their pass protection is terrible.  Footballoutsiders has them at 24th in pass protection.  They allowed 42 sacks in the regular season which ties them for 20th.  Russell Wilson rushed 118 times this year and it's VERY rare that the Seahawks call a designed quarterback run.  I would guess that Wilson had to scramble out of pressure on probably half of those (with read options making up the rest).  So that's 42 sacks plus an estimated 59 scrambles....pfft.  Manning wouldn't have survived the season.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many of those sacks are due to Wilson not being able to make quick enough reads because of his lack of confidence in throwing from the pocket? I went to a game at Lambeau in 07. Favre's line was the worst I've ever seen. The rushers were in on him constantly but he had the confidence to take the hits and fling the rock and they eventually won a game they had no business winning.
> 
> With a similar quality line in 09 or 10, Rodgers wasn't making quick reads and the Packers then gave up the most sacks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> zero.  You can say a lot of things about Wilson but lacking confidence is not one of them.  He throws just fine from the pocket BTW.  Watch a game or two and you will see just how quickly defensive linemen blaze through Seattle's o-line, especially on the right side.  They may as well put me out there at right tackle.  I can get steamrolled just as effectively
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yea, WIlson is blazing with confidence; throwing 20 TDs and 200 yards per game. Peyton doubled Wilson's TDs this year and last year  The fact that you even think to compare them shows how disassociated you are with reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson also has the highest career quarterback rating in the playoffs in NFL history; better than Aikman, better than Favre, better than Montana, Marino, Rodgers, Brees, Bradshaw, Unitas, Starr, Brady, Staubach, and yes far better than Manning.  No quarterback in the history of the NFL has exploded in the playoffs like Russell Wilson has the last three years.  I'd say he is pretty confident.
Click to expand...


man you sure school him.lol.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

BluePhantom said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
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> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> You kidding? Manning with a decent line which Seattle is above average, they are winners. You are now sounding a bit crazy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle has a very good run blocking line.  Their pass protection is terrible.  Footballoutsiders has them at 24th in pass protection.  They allowed 42 sacks in the regular season which ties them for 20th.  Russell Wilson rushed 118 times this year and it's VERY rare that the Seahawks call a designed quarterback run.  I would guess that Wilson had to scramble out of pressure on probably half of those (with read options making up the rest).  So that's 42 sacks plus an estimated 59 scrambles....pfft.  Manning wouldn't have survived the season.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many of those sacks are due to Wilson not being able to make quick enough reads because of his lack of confidence in throwing from the pocket? I went to a game at Lambeau in 07. Favre's line was the worst I've ever seen. The rushers were in on him constantly but he had the confidence to take the hits and fling the rock and they eventually won a game they had no business winning.
> 
> With a similar quality line in 09 or 10, Rodgers wasn't making quick reads and the Packers then gave up the most sacks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> zero.  You can say a lot of things about Wilson but lacking confidence is not one of them.  He throws just fine from the pocket BTW.  Watch a game or two and you will see just how quickly defensive linemen blaze through Seattle's o-line, especially on the right side.  They may as well put me out there at right tackle.  I can get steamrolled just as effectively
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yea, WIlson is blazing with confidence; throwing 20 TDs and 200 yards per game. Peyton doubled Wilson's TDs this year and last year  The fact that you even think to compare them shows how disassociated you are with reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson also has the highest career quarterback rating in the playoffs in NFL history; better than Aikman, better than Favre, better than Montana, Marino, Rodgers, Brees, Bradshaw, Unitas, Starr, Brady, Staubach, and yes far better than Manning.  No quarterback in the history of the NFL has exploded in the playoffs like Russell Wilson has the last three years.  I'd say he is pretty confident.
> 
> Impeccable Russell Wilson in rare company after another strong postseason performance HeraldNet.com - Seattle Sidelines
Click to expand...


Anyone who tries to hang their hat on the flawed rating standard (shakes head).... Wilson is a game manager who has never thrown for 300 yards in a playoff game. The fact that you've anointed this guy as some all-time great....gee whiz..


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## BluePhantom

TheGreatGatsby said:


> BluePhantom said:
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> BluePhantom said:
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> Seattle has a very good run blocking line.  Their pass protection is terrible.  Footballoutsiders has them at 24th in pass protection.  They allowed 42 sacks in the regular season which ties them for 20th.  Russell Wilson rushed 118 times this year and it's VERY rare that the Seahawks call a designed quarterback run.  I would guess that Wilson had to scramble out of pressure on probably half of those (with read options making up the rest).  So that's 42 sacks plus an estimated 59 scrambles....pfft.  Manning wouldn't have survived the season.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many of those sacks are due to Wilson not being able to make quick enough reads because of his lack of confidence in throwing from the pocket? I went to a game at Lambeau in 07. Favre's line was the worst I've ever seen. The rushers were in on him constantly but he had the confidence to take the hits and fling the rock and they eventually won a game they had no business winning.
> 
> With a similar quality line in 09 or 10, Rodgers wasn't making quick reads and the Packers then gave up the most sacks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> zero.  You can say a lot of things about Wilson but lacking confidence is not one of them.  He throws just fine from the pocket BTW.  Watch a game or two and you will see just how quickly defensive linemen blaze through Seattle's o-line, especially on the right side.  They may as well put me out there at right tackle.  I can get steamrolled just as effectively
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yea, WIlson is blazing with confidence; throwing 20 TDs and 200 yards per game. Peyton doubled Wilson's TDs this year and last year  The fact that you even think to compare them shows how disassociated you are with reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson also has the highest career quarterback rating in the playoffs in NFL history; better than Aikman, better than Favre, better than Montana, Marino, Rodgers, Brees, Bradshaw, Unitas, Starr, Brady, Staubach, and yes far better than Manning.  No quarterback in the history of the NFL has exploded in the playoffs like Russell Wilson has the last three years.  I'd say he is pretty confident.
> 
> Impeccable Russell Wilson in rare company after another strong postseason performance HeraldNet.com - Seattle Sidelines
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Anyone who tries to hang their hat on the flawed rating standard (shakes head).... Wilson is a game manager who has never thrown for 300 yards in a playoff game. The fact that you've anointed this guy as some all-time great....gee whiz..
Click to expand...


Ok you do realize that when a quarterback throws for over 300 yards, their team usually loses right?  Go through the box scores for this season and count it up.  I will bet you that when a quarterback throws for 300 yards their team loses 60% of the time or more.

BTW Wilson most certainly *has *thrown for 300 yards in a playoff game.  2012 at Atlanta where he passed for 385 yards.  Here's the link to the box score.  Seattle Seahawks vs. Atlanta Falcons - Box Score - January 13 2013 - ESPN Oh and guess what?  They lost.  You really should try knowing what you are talking about before you starting popping off with statements that are totally wrong.


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## TheGreatGatsby

BluePhantom said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
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> BluePhantom said:
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> TheGreatGatsby said:
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> 
> 
> How many of those sacks are due to Wilson not being able to make quick enough reads because of his lack of confidence in throwing from the pocket? I went to a game at Lambeau in 07. Favre's line was the worst I've ever seen. The rushers were in on him constantly but he had the confidence to take the hits and fling the rock and they eventually won a game they had no business winning.
> 
> With a similar quality line in 09 or 10, Rodgers wasn't making quick reads and the Packers then gave up the most sacks.
> 
> 
> 
> zero.  You can say a lot of things about Wilson but lacking confidence is not one of them.  He throws just fine from the pocket BTW.  Watch a game or two and you will see just how quickly defensive linemen blaze through Seattle's o-line, especially on the right side.  They may as well put me out there at right tackle.  I can get steamrolled just as effectively
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yea, WIlson is blazing with confidence; throwing 20 TDs and 200 yards per game. Peyton doubled Wilson's TDs this year and last year  The fact that you even think to compare them shows how disassociated you are with reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson also has the highest career quarterback rating in the playoffs in NFL history; better than Aikman, better than Favre, better than Montana, Marino, Rodgers, Brees, Bradshaw, Unitas, Starr, Brady, Staubach, and yes far better than Manning.  No quarterback in the history of the NFL has exploded in the playoffs like Russell Wilson has the last three years.  I'd say he is pretty confident.
> 
> Impeccable Russell Wilson in rare company after another strong postseason performance HeraldNet.com - Seattle Sidelines
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Anyone who tries to hang their hat on the flawed rating standard (shakes head).... Wilson is a game manager who has never thrown for 300 yards in a playoff game. The fact that you've anointed this guy as some all-time great....gee whiz..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok you do realize that when a quarterback throws for over 300 yards, their team usually loses right?  Go through the box scores for this season and count it up.  I will bet you that when a quarterback throws for 300 yards their team loses 60% of the time or more.
> 
> BTW Wilson most certainly *has *thrown for 300 yards in a playoff game.  2012 at Atlanta where he passed for 385 yards.  Here's the link to the box score.  Seattle Seahawks vs. Atlanta Falcons - Box Score - January 13 2013 - ESPN Oh and guess what?  They lost.  You really should try knowing what you are talking about before you starting popping off with statements that are totally wrong.
Click to expand...


I realize that you make that claim. If a team loses its not because their QB did well either.


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## antiquity

Treeshepherd said:


> Lots of great points made in this thread. Peyton Manning has a lot of career passing yards and holds the all time TD record. But the guy is a conehead from outer space. Statswise, he's the Rafael Palmeiro of football. The greatest ever? What are you, a bean counter?
> 
> If you don't see the greatness of Russell Wilson right now, and you don't recognize his greatness, you might as well be any other ESPN pundit who makes the safe and uncontroversial choice every week.
> 
> Russell Wilson is head and shoulders above Manning in every way but actual height. Is he Montana? Is he Unitas? Let's not get ahead of ourselves. He isn't close to that. But is he already better than Manning? No question.



Actually its impossible to compare Wilson to any of the other quarterback past and present. Seattle isn't a passing style team, its a run first and pass second. 
Now with that said Russell Wilson is a better quarterback in one way that the other are not. He is a true field general and directs his team be it running the ball or passing if the situation warrants it. None of the other quarterback can do or has done that with the efficiency that Seattle and Wilson does.
Comparing Wilson to Manning, Brady, Romo etc. etc. is like comparing apples to oranges. 

People want to compare Wilson to great quarterback of past and present who throw for 50 touchdown and 10K yards...it won't ever happen in Seattle under their system.


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## Papageorgio

9/11 inside job said:


> BluePhantom said:
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> BluePhantom said:
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> Put Manning on the Seahawks and they wouldn't make the playoffs.  Seattle's o-line is terrible at pass protection.  Manning has all the mobility of the statue of liberty.  Manning would get beaten like a drum if he played for Seattle and when Manning gets hit he crumbles like a stale cookie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You kidding? Manning with a decent line which Seattle is above average, they are winners. You are now sounding a bit crazy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seattle has a very good run blocking line.  Their pass protection is terrible.  Footballoutsiders has them at 24th in pass protection.  They allowed 42 sacks in the regular season which ties them for 20th.  Russell Wilson rushed 118 times this year and it's VERY rare that the Seahawks call a designed quarterback run.  I would guess that Wilson had to scramble out of pressure on probably half of those (with read options making up the rest).  So that's 42 sacks plus an estimated 59 scrambles....pfft.  Manning wouldn't have survived the season.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many of those sacks are due to Wilson not being able to make quick enough reads because of his lack of confidence in throwing from the pocket? I went to a game at Lambeau in 07. Favre's line was the worst I've ever seen. The rushers were in on him constantly but he had the confidence to take the hits and fling the rock and they eventually won a game they had no business winning.
> 
> With a similar quality line in 09 or 10, Rodgers wasn't making quick reads and the Packers then gave up the most sacks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> zero.  You can say a lot of things about Wilson but lacking confidence is not one of them.  He throws just fine from the pocket BTW.  Watch a game or two and you will see just how quickly defensive linemen blaze through Seattle's o-line, especially on the right side.  They may as well put me out there at right tackle.  I can get steamrolled just as effectively
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You took him to school big time,game over,checkmate.Blue Phantom wins.
Click to expand...


Say's homer boy.


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## Papageorgio

antiquity said:


> Treeshepherd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of great points made in this thread. Peyton Manning has a lot of career passing yards and holds the all time TD record. But the guy is a conehead from outer space. Statswise, he's the Rafael Palmeiro of football. The greatest ever? What are you, a bean counter?
> 
> If you don't see the greatness of Russell Wilson right now, and you don't recognize his greatness, you might as well be any other ESPN pundit who makes the safe and uncontroversial choice every week.
> 
> Russell Wilson is head and shoulders above Manning in every way but actual height. Is he Montana? Is he Unitas? Let's not get ahead of ourselves. He isn't close to that. But is he already better than Manning? No question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually its impossible to compare Wilson to any of the other quarterback past and present. Seattle isn't a passing style team, its a run first and pass second.
> Now with that said Russell Wilson is a better quarterback in one way that the other are not. He is a true field general and directs his team be it running the ball or passing if the situation warrants it. None of the other quarterback can do or has done that with the efficiency that Seattle and Wilson does.
> Comparing Wilson to Manning, Brady, Romo etc. etc. is like comparing apples to oranges.
> 
> People want to compare Wilson to great quarterback of past and present who throw for 50 touchdown and 10K yards...it won't ever happen in Seattle under their system.
Click to expand...


Carrol uses the talent he has and has gotten the most out of it. Wilson is one of the quickest thinking QB's I have ever saw. He reads and accesses all through the play and has the ability to read and adapt quickly. I call him a game manager and I think your field general is a better term.


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## BluePhantom

TheGreatGatsby said:


> BluePhantom said:
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> zero.  You can say a lot of things about Wilson but lacking confidence is not one of them.  He throws just fine from the pocket BTW.  Watch a game or two and you will see just how quickly defensive linemen blaze through Seattle's o-line, especially on the right side.  They may as well put me out there at right tackle.  I can get steamrolled just as effectively
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, WIlson is blazing with confidence; throwing 20 TDs and 200 yards per game. Peyton doubled Wilson's TDs this year and last year  The fact that you even think to compare them shows how disassociated you are with reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson also has the highest career quarterback rating in the playoffs in NFL history; better than Aikman, better than Favre, better than Montana, Marino, Rodgers, Brees, Bradshaw, Unitas, Starr, Brady, Staubach, and yes far better than Manning.  No quarterback in the history of the NFL has exploded in the playoffs like Russell Wilson has the last three years.  I'd say he is pretty confident.
> 
> Impeccable Russell Wilson in rare company after another strong postseason performance HeraldNet.com - Seattle Sidelines
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Anyone who tries to hang their hat on the flawed rating standard (shakes head).... Wilson is a game manager who has never thrown for 300 yards in a playoff game. The fact that you've anointed this guy as some all-time great....gee whiz..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok you do realize that when a quarterback throws for over 300 yards, their team usually loses right?  Go through the box scores for this season and count it up.  I will bet you that when a quarterback throws for 300 yards their team loses 60% of the time or more.
> 
> BTW Wilson most certainly *has *thrown for 300 yards in a playoff game.  2012 at Atlanta where he passed for 385 yards.  Here's the link to the box score.  Seattle Seahawks vs. Atlanta Falcons - Box Score - January 13 2013 - ESPN Oh and guess what?  They lost.  You really should try knowing what you are talking about before you starting popping off with statements that are totally wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I realize that you make that claim. If a team loses its not because their QB did well either.
Click to expand...


Well just for shits and giggles I counted it up.  Over the last three years (playoffs included and ignoring games where both quarterbacks passed for 300 yards) the win loss record for 300 yard quarterbacks is 129 - 154 for a 45% winning rate.  Ok so 5% higher than I estimated, but still...when the quarterback throws for 300 yards they usually lose.


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## TheGreatGatsby

BluePhantom said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
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> BluePhantom said:
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> TheGreatGatsby said:
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> 
> Yea, WIlson is blazing with confidence; throwing 20 TDs and 200 yards per game. Peyton doubled Wilson's TDs this year and last year  The fact that you even think to compare them shows how disassociated you are with reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wilson also has the highest career quarterback rating in the playoffs in NFL history; better than Aikman, better than Favre, better than Montana, Marino, Rodgers, Brees, Bradshaw, Unitas, Starr, Brady, Staubach, and yes far better than Manning.  No quarterback in the history of the NFL has exploded in the playoffs like Russell Wilson has the last three years.  I'd say he is pretty confident.
> 
> Impeccable Russell Wilson in rare company after another strong postseason performance HeraldNet.com - Seattle Sidelines
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Anyone who tries to hang their hat on the flawed rating standard (shakes head).... Wilson is a game manager who has never thrown for 300 yards in a playoff game. The fact that you've anointed this guy as some all-time great....gee whiz..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok you do realize that when a quarterback throws for over 300 yards, their team usually loses right?  Go through the box scores for this season and count it up.  I will bet you that when a quarterback throws for 300 yards their team loses 60% of the time or more.
> 
> BTW Wilson most certainly *has *thrown for 300 yards in a playoff game.  2012 at Atlanta where he passed for 385 yards.  Here's the link to the box score.  Seattle Seahawks vs. Atlanta Falcons - Box Score - January 13 2013 - ESPN Oh and guess what?  They lost.  You really should try knowing what you are talking about before you starting popping off with statements that are totally wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I realize that you make that claim. If a team loses its not because their QB did well either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well just for shits and giggles I counted it up.  Over the last three years (playoffs included and ignoring games where both quarterbacks passed for 300 yards) the win loss record for 300 yard quarterbacks is 129 - 154 for a 45% winning rate.  Ok so 5% higher than I estimated, but still...when the quarterback throws for 300 yards they usually lose.
Click to expand...


You don't think that has something to do with the high amount of strong defensive teams that win? Or the fact that often a QB that has to throw for 300 yards often has a weak er RB? You've made a false correlation. If the Seahawks could get 300 yards from Wilson, they'd take it any day.


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## BluePhantom

TheGreatGatsby said:


> BluePhantom said:
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> TheGreatGatsby said:
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> TheGreatGatsby said:
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> BluePhantom said:
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> 
> Wilson also has the highest career quarterback rating in the playoffs in NFL history; better than Aikman, better than Favre, better than Montana, Marino, Rodgers, Brees, Bradshaw, Unitas, Starr, Brady, Staubach, and yes far better than Manning.  No quarterback in the history of the NFL has exploded in the playoffs like Russell Wilson has the last three years.  I'd say he is pretty confident.
> 
> Impeccable Russell Wilson in rare company after another strong postseason performance HeraldNet.com - Seattle Sidelines
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who tries to hang their hat on the flawed rating standard (shakes head).... Wilson is a game manager who has never thrown for 300 yards in a playoff game. The fact that you've anointed this guy as some all-time great....gee whiz..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok you do realize that when a quarterback throws for over 300 yards, their team usually loses right?  Go through the box scores for this season and count it up.  I will bet you that when a quarterback throws for 300 yards their team loses 60% of the time or more.
> 
> BTW Wilson most certainly *has *thrown for 300 yards in a playoff game.  2012 at Atlanta where he passed for 385 yards.  Here's the link to the box score.  Seattle Seahawks vs. Atlanta Falcons - Box Score - January 13 2013 - ESPN Oh and guess what?  They lost.  You really should try knowing what you are talking about before you starting popping off with statements that are totally wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I realize that you make that claim. If a team loses its not because their QB did well either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well just for shits and giggles I counted it up.  Over the last three years (playoffs included and ignoring games where both quarterbacks passed for 300 yards) the win loss record for 300 yard quarterbacks is 129 - 154 for a 45% winning rate.  Ok so 5% higher than I estimated, but still...when the quarterback throws for 300 yards they usually lose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't think that has something to do with the high amount of strong defensive teams that win? Or the fact that often a QB that has to throw for 300 yards often has a weak er RB? You've made a false correlation. If the Seahawks could get 300 yards from Wilson, they'd take it any day.
Click to expand...


Wilson has passed for 300 yards five times in his NFL career.  Seattle is 3-2 in those games (which is a hell of a lot better than the average).  No...quarterbacks pass for 300 yards because their team is getting stomped and they have to abandon the run and start heaving it down field in a desperate attempt to catch up.  As the Seahawks rarely need to catch up to anyone there's no need for Wilson to throw all the time. Hence he rarely goes over 300 yards. 

Lets look at the games where he DID throw for 300 yards.

*2012 at Atlanta - Divisional Playoffs*: Down 20-0 at the half Wilson goes on a second half tear passing for two touchdowns and rushing for one to take the lead with 31 seconds left in the game.  Matt Ryan connects on a deep ball to Tony Gonzalez who beat Marcus Trufant and the Falcons kick a FG to win the game.  In other words Wilson was behind and had to catch up and was absolutely clutch in his performance.

Seattle Seahawks vs. Atlanta Falcons - Box Score - January 13 2013 - ESPN 

*2013 at Carolina*: Seahawks are down 7-3 at the half.Lynch has been averaging 2.5 yards per carry.  Wilson goes on a second half tear completing a 43 yard TD pass to Jermaine Kearse in the 4th quarter to win the game.  In other words, Wilson had to catch up.

Seattle Seahawks vs. Carolina Panthers - Box Score - September 08 2013 - ESPN

*2013 vs. New Orleans*: Seattle just dominated that game.  Wilson threw 30 passes and went for over 300.  Just one of those games where everything went right and the receivers had big gains whenever they caught a ball.

New Orleans Saints vs. Seattle Seahawks - Box Score - December 02 2013 - ESPN

*2014 at St. Louis*: Seahawks are down 21-6 at the half. Wilson goes on a second half tear passing for two touchdowns and running for one.  St. Louis calls a fake punt on 4th down converting the first down and allowing them to run out the clock.  In other words the Seahawks were losing and Wilson had to throw to catch up.

Seattle Seahawks vs. St. Louis Rams - Box Score - October 19 2014 - ESPN

*2014 at Arizona*: Again just a game that Seattle dominated from beginning to end.  31 attempts for Wilson and 339 yards with 2 TDs.  Again just one of those games where every time a receiver caught the ball he went for a big gain.

Seattle Seahawks vs. Arizona Cardinals - Box Score - December 21 2014 - ESPN

So...most of the time when Wilson has thrown for 300 yards it's because Seattle was losing and Wilson had to put the team on his back to catch up.  As Wilson has won 60% of the time he has thrown for 300 yards where the NFL average is 45%, I'd say Wilson is pretty solid and no....personally I *don't *want Wilson throwing for 300 yards. If that is happening the Seahawks are usually in big trouble.


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## TheGreatGatsby

Game 1 - In other words, Atlanta protected against the run and played a prevent secondary and Wilson finally had his first 300 yard game (I remember that game; that's exactly what they did. They went soft).....BTW, you can't even tell what games Seattle lost in your write-ups....

BTW, up to 2009, teams with 300 yard passers did well...Remember when 300 yard passing games were for losers Pro-football-reference.com blog Blog Archive

Also, Seattle would take 300 yards from Wilson any damn day. Within a typical game, it's not something he can typically do though. Of course Seattle is otherwise built upon field position management and defense. But your correlation that 300 yard games are bad is just totally fallacious.


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## TheGreatGatsby

Seattle fans have become the new New England fans. They actually have convinced themselves that Russell fucking Wilson is better than Dan Marino!


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## BluePhantom

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Game 1 - In other words, Atlanta protected against the run and played a prevent secondary and Wilson finally had his first 300 yard game (I remember that game; that's exactly what they did. They went soft).....BTW, you can't even tell what games Seattle lost in your write-ups....
> 
> BTW, up to 2009, teams with 300 yard passers did well...Remember when 300 yard passing games were for losers Pro-football-reference.com blog Blog Archive
> 
> Also, Seattle would take 300 yards from Wilson any damn day. Within a typical game, it's not something he can typically do though. Of course Seattle is otherwise built upon field position management and defense. But your correlation that 300 yard games are bad is just totally fallacious.



Ok so your opinion is correct and the stats are wrong.  Never mind that 300 yard passers lose 55% of the time.  Gatsby says it's bullshit so we will go with that.  That's right up there with the guy pointing out to Obama that every time the government has raised capital gains taxes that the government has collected less money and his answer was "well it won't this time"


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## TheGreatGatsby

BluePhantom said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Game 1 - In other words, Atlanta protected against the run and played a prevent secondary and Wilson finally had his first 300 yard game (I remember that game; that's exactly what they did. They went soft).....BTW, you can't even tell what games Seattle lost in your write-ups....
> 
> BTW, up to 2009, teams with 300 yard passers did well...Remember when 300 yard passing games were for losers Pro-football-reference.com blog Blog Archive
> 
> Also, Seattle would take 300 yards from Wilson any damn day. Within a typical game, it's not something he can typically do though. Of course Seattle is otherwise built upon field position management and defense. But your correlation that 300 yard games are bad is just totally fallacious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok so your opinion is correct and the stats are wrong.  Never mind that 300 yard passers lose 55% of the time.  Gatsby says it's bullshit so we will go with that.  That's right up there with the guy pointing out to Obama that every time the government has raised capital gains taxes that the government has collected less money and his answer was "well it won't this time"
Click to expand...


Do you not know what correlation means? If 54 percent of people die at night and 46 percent of people die in the day, then that's a stat. Then for you to say that it's bad to go out at night cos you're more likely to die lunar rays is a very faulty correlation. That is basically what your 300 yard game is bad argument is. You're creating correlations that aren't there.

In fact, often QBs throw for 300 yards because the run sucks or their team is behind and teams are playing prevent or they're going for it on 4th down. Stuff like that is obviously going to drag the percent down. But if a qb dominates and throws for 300 yards, that is to the QB's credit and not to a team's detriment.


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## Papageorgio

If you are down in the second half by 10 points are you going to run or try to catch up by passing? If you lead in the second half are you going to run the ball to use up more time, or are you going to pass?

When playing from behind the only chance you have is passing. Seattle uses a run offense first, them pass.


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## HUGGY

I really don't get TGG's point in this thread or his point of view in general.  

This season isn't about Dan Marino.  He might as well be dead as far as any impact he will have this weekend.

The only thing that can affect the outcome in the NFC as far as QBs go are Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers.  Then, it is on to AZ to find out who is the big winner in the NFL between Russell Wilson and Luck or Brady.

Wilson is the giant killer...the dragon slayer.  He was the third round pick..the short guy.  It's hard NOT to support his success.

What will this Gatsby fellow be complaining about on February 2?  

How about the February after that one?

I get the feeling that somehow it is personal with this guy except he isn't here to support any team or QB...... just to downplay Wilson's accomplishments.  Well maybe Marino ..but he isn't playing any more.

Did Wilson refuse to give him an autograph ?  If so why ?


----------



## LA RAM FAN

trolls pooper and disinfo agent rightwinger hate the truth bring told and seeing Gatsby being taken to school here by Blue Phantom.

Not suprising THEY are the ones doing the agreeing ignoring the facts how Phantom won the chess game every time taking him to school.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

HUGGY said:


> I really don't get TGG's point in this thread or his point of view in general.
> 
> This season isn't about Dan Marino.  He might as well be dead as far as any impact he will have this weekend.
> 
> The only thing that can affect the outcome in the NFC as far as QBs go are Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers.  Then, it is on to AZ to find out who is the big winner in the NFL between Russell Wilson and Luck or Brady.
> 
> Wilson is the giant killer...the dragon slayer.  He was the third round pick..the short guy.  It's hard NOT to support his success.
> 
> What will this Gatsby fellow be complaining about on February 2?
> 
> How about the February after that one?
> 
> I get the feeling that somehow it is personal with this guy except he isn't here to support any team or QB...... just to downplay Wilson's accomplishments.  Well maybe Marino ..but he isn't playing any more.
> 
> Did Wilson refuse to give him an autograph ?  If so why ?



Guess Wilson will have to beat another future hall of famer Brady in the superbowl before TGG can see the light that Blue Phantom has taken him to school here in every post before he can acknowledge the truth that Blue Phantom gave him a first class education here and won every chess match.


----------



## antiquity

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Seattle fans have become the new New England fans. They actually have convinced themselves that Russell fucking Wilson is better than Dan Marino!



May I suggest the next time you go to a grocery store you go to the produce department and pick up an apple and then find a orange, got that, now compare the two...see any difference in an apple and the orange?


----------



## antiquity

9/11 inside job said:


> trolls pooper and disinfo agent rightwinger hate the truth bring told and seeing Gatsby being taken to school here by Blue Phantom.
> 
> Not suprising THEY are the ones doing the agreeing ignoring the facts how Phantom won the chess game every time taking him to school.



Why do you always have to be a moron and bring politic into play. I think you are the least respected poster on this thread as your stupid name implies.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Seattle fans have become the new New England fans. They actually have convinced themselves that Russell fucking Wilson is better than Dan Marino!


Im a Wilson fan but I find him more comparable to this generations tom brady than I do with Marino.Marion had to carry the load on his shoulders and was a choker in regular season games,brady is neither of those two and neither is Wilson.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

antiquity said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> trolls pooper and disinfo agent rightwinger hate the truth bring told and seeing Gatsby being taken to school here by Blue Phantom.
> 
> Not suprising THEY are the ones doing the agreeing ignoring the facts how Phantom won the chess game every time taking him to school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you always have to be a moron and bring politic into play. I think you are the least respected poster on this thread as your stupid name implies.
Click to expand...

politics?

Look who's the moron.the jerk who refuses to look at an opposing view different than his own whether its the truth about 9/11 or the rams coming back to LA, doesn't matter.lol

oh and hate to break the news to you as well that agent troll rightwinger is the most disrespected poster at USMB.

I have seen literally over a hundred people call him out in the years I been here on his outright lies he makes up all the time avoiding when he is proven wrong.

kinda like you and many others have who have recently made up outright lies that they never said the rams wouldn't be coming back.then when I cornered them and showed their previous posts when they DID say that,they of course changed the subject just like you always do when your cornered.

this  site seems to draw in the biggest trolls. thank god other message  boards,sports fans aren't anywhere near the stupidity as the likes of people like you,pooper,and rightwinger since unlike you three,they would look at the facts back then I posted that the rams indeed are coming home THIS year which you probably still are going to say isn't happening just like you kept saying no team in the NFL would be coming back to LA anytime soon in the future.

you need to look in the mirror when calling someone a moron,someone who ignores expert witness testimony and facts that proved the rams were coming home.

waits to watch you try and weasel out of it and CLAIM  you never said it just like so many others have recently as I knew they would.

I KNEW several months ago all the idiots that kept ignoring my facts the rasm are coming back would then try and weasel their way out of it and claim they never said they were nto coming back cause they are too arrogant just as you are to admit when they have been proven wrong by me so you will do the same thing of course as they did and deny you never said that which is bullshit.

I called those posters out who claimed they never said that reposting their bs and of course they changed the subject or ran off as you did when I proved you wrong recently.


----------



## Papageorgio

9/11 inside job said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle fans have become the new New England fans. They actually have convinced themselves that Russell fucking Wilson is better than Dan Marino!
> 
> 
> 
> Im a Wilson fan but I find him more comparable to this generations tom brady than I do with Marino.Marion had to carry the load on his shoulders and was a choker in regular season games,brady is neither of those two and neither is Wilson.
Click to expand...



Speaking of chokers.

Most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history is Peyton Manning, second is Dan Marino. The most game winning drives in the NFL is Peyton Manning and Dan Marino with 51 each.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Papageorgio said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle fans have become the new New England fans. They actually have convinced themselves that Russell fucking Wilson is better than Dan Marino!
> 
> 
> 
> Im a Wilson fan but I find him more comparable to this generations tom brady than I do with Marino.Marion had to carry the load on his shoulders and was a choker in regular season games,brady is neither of those two and neither is Wilson.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of chokers.
> 
> Most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history is Peyton Manning, second is Dan Marino. The most game winning drives in the NFL is Peyton Manning and Dan Marino with 51 each.
Click to expand...


Don't bother him with facts. He'll have none of it.


----------



## Papageorgio

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle fans have become the new New England fans. They actually have convinced themselves that Russell fucking Wilson is better than Dan Marino!
> 
> 
> 
> Im a Wilson fan but I find him more comparable to this generations tom brady than I do with Marino.Marion had to carry the load on his shoulders and was a choker in regular season games,brady is neither of those two and neither is Wilson.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of chokers.
> 
> Most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history is Peyton Manning, second is Dan Marino. The most game winning drives in the NFL is Peyton Manning and Dan Marino with 51 each.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't bother him with facts. He'll have none of it.
Click to expand...


True, he is just a troll, look at his la lambs thread, nothing but pages and pages of blah blah blah!


----------



## BluePhantom

Papageorgio said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle fans have become the new New England fans. They actually have convinced themselves that Russell fucking Wilson is better than Dan Marino!
> 
> 
> 
> Im a Wilson fan but I find him more comparable to this generations tom brady than I do with Marino.Marion had to carry the load on his shoulders and was a choker in regular season games,brady is neither of those two and neither is Wilson.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of chokers.
> 
> Most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history is Peyton Manning, second is Dan Marino. The most game winning drives in the NFL is Peyton Manning and Dan Marino with 51 each.
Click to expand...


Doesn't that just mean that they were behind a lot?


----------



## Billo_Really

Papageorgio said:


> True, he is just a troll, look at his la lambs thread, nothing but pages and pages of blah blah blah!


Manning's father was a better quarterback.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle fans have become the new New England fans. They actually have convinced themselves that Russell fucking Wilson is better than Dan Marino!
> 
> 
> 
> Im a Wilson fan but I find him more comparable to this generations tom brady than I do with Marino.Marion had to carry the load on his shoulders and was a choker in regular season games,brady is neither of those two and neither is Wilson.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of chokers.
> 
> Most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history is Peyton Manning, second is Dan Marino. The most game winning drives in the NFL is Peyton Manning and Dan Marino with 51 each.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't bother him with facts. He'll have none of it.
Click to expand...


Yeah I kinda discovered that about him way back this fall when I took him to school on the Rams coming back just to watch him change the subject everytime I cornered him on that.

He is really losing it now.Dont know where he came up with that absurd comment I was bringing politics into this discussion.sure I did when I mentioned bill Clinton but that was only AFTER he said that.Before then, I was talking strictly about sports.

this is what you end up doing when you try and have any kind of discussion with him.

that seems to be a common trait among seahawks fans.arrogant and wont look at facts.Blue Phantom being the exception of course..

I see you live in California.I never noticed that before. Oh man I am so jealous of you.That was why I became a Rams fan in the first place was because they were based in California which is my favorite state so even I who have  lived here in the Midwest my whole life,was depressed when they moved away even though they were much closer to me.anything other than the name LOS ANGELES in front of the name Rams,i don't want no part of.I turned to the chargers after they left.

you LIVING in California and all,i figure you might be interested in this.if you are,mark your calendars for these dates.feb15th which is a month from tomorrow and march 1st.those are the key dates to look for. on the 15th of that month is when the announcement is expected from the rams that they are moving back to LA this year.

then on march 1st,the owners will vote on it.that's the real key date because goddel has no say in this whatsoever contrary to what some fools around here actually believe such as him.

what matters is if the owners approve the move and I guarantee you,they will vote in favor of knoenke and he will easily get the 24 of the 31 votes needed by them to relocate,they all want it to happen except for that idiot spanos of the chargers.

you got to remember,27 of the 30 owners opposed the move from LA to saint Louis in 95,they only changed their votes in majority favoring AFTER the bitch threatened to sue,fools like him around here don't get it though  that goodel is powerless to stop the move.that he doesn't want an anti trust lawsuit against him.

talking to someone like him about that and others around here though,you might as well be talking to a brick wall .USMB seems to attract the most ignorant sports fans.

this sports message board I post at ,they are FAR more knowledgeable,open minded and objective about the rams coming back to LA than most here at USMB are.

so what part of California you live in? you being right there in the state its all happening in,you probably are on top of it almost as much as I am and know as well as I do its a done deal they are coming back THIS year am I right?


----------



## BluePhantom

BluePhantom said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle fans have become the new New England fans. They actually have convinced themselves that Russell fucking Wilson is better than Dan Marino!
> 
> 
> 
> Im a Wilson fan but I find him more comparable to this generations tom brady than I do with Marino.Marion had to carry the load on his shoulders and was a choker in regular season games,brady is neither of those two and neither is Wilson.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of chokers.
> 
> Most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history is Peyton Manning, second is Dan Marino. The most game winning drives in the NFL is Peyton Manning and Dan Marino with 51 each.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Doesn't that just mean that they were behind a lot?
Click to expand...


BTW I am being a smart ass, but I stole that from John Elway.  I saw a great interview with him once where the reporter was asking about all his 4th quarter come back victories and he asked Elway to what he attributed all of them and what advice he would give to young quarterbacks about a 4th quarter rally.  Elway said (paraphrasing) "well I attribute it to the fact that we were usually losing and I would tell young quarterbacks that the only thing better than a 4th quarter comeback is not being behind entering the 4th quarter".


----------



## Treeshepherd

Point 1: if you think Clayton and Duper were ordinary WRs and you had to look them up to remind yourself of their existence, you weren't paying attention to the Fish in the '80s. 

Peyton Manning was born with a genetic defect that causes his neck airways to constrict in the month of January. In other words, he's a choker. HOF, sure, how can u keep him out? Top 5 all time? No forking way! I don't buy that hype. If you want to point to a Denver QB who did more with less, look at Elway's one man teams. 

SF almost beat Seattle last year. It was Wilson's escapability that made the diff. Seattle went on to embarrass Manning in the SB. SF would have crushed Denver and  laughed at Manning's wounded duck passes just the same. 
Manning is good at saying Omaha and making audibles, and he usually has an accurate arm. 
But Wilson never suffers from Manning's choking disease.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Treeshepherd said:


> Point 1: if you think Clayton and Duper were ordinary WRs and you had to look them up to remind yourself of their existence, you weren't paying attention to the Fish in the '80s.
> 
> Peyton Manning was born with a genetic defect that causes his neck airways to constrict in the month of January. In other words, he's a choker. HOF, sure, how can u keep him out? Top 5 all time? No forking way! I don't buy that hype. If you want to point to a Denver QB who did more with less, look at Elway's one man teams.
> 
> SF almost beat Seattle last year. It was Wilson's escapability that made the diff. Seattle went on to embarrass Manning in the SB. SF would have crushed Denver and  laughed at Manning's wounded duck passes just the same.
> Manning is good at saying Omaha and making audibles, and he usually has an accurate arm.
> But Wilson never suffers from Manning's choking disease.



that's why I keep saying this thread title should read can Wilson beat Bradys legacy since Wilson is much more like him.calm and cool under pressure and doesn't get scared in big games.manning is the clone of Marino who made an art of stinking it up in Big games.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Papageorgio said:


> True, he is just a troll, look at his la lambs thread, nothing but pages and pages of blah blah blah!



I don't know about being a troll.... I think he just has a severe case of homerism. Seriously, a year plus ago he'd have been arguing that Kafernick was better than Marino or Manning had he been a Niners fan. That's how bad he's got wood for Wilson. Seriously, Phantom see a doctor if an erection lasts for more than four hours!


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Treeshepherd said:


> Point 1: if you think Clayton and Duper were ordinary WRs and you had to look them up to remind yourself of their existence, you weren't paying attention to the Fish in the '80s.
> 
> Peyton Manning was born with a genetic defect that causes his neck airways to constrict in the month of January. In other words, he's a choker. HOF, sure, how can u keep him out? Top 5 all time? No forking way! I don't buy that hype. If you want to point to a Denver QB who did more with less, look at Elway's one man teams.
> 
> SF almost beat Seattle last year. It was Wilson's escapability that made the diff. Seattle went on to embarrass Manning in the SB. SF would have crushed Denver and  laughed at Manning's wounded duck passes just the same.
> Manning is good at saying Omaha and making audibles, and he usually has an accurate arm.
> But Wilson never suffers from Manning's choking disease.



Re: 'Marks Brothers'

Ordinary? Mmm__ that or a tad above average. Let's just say that they played with arguably the greatest QB in a pass first offense and still didn't end up in the HOF for a reason.

Re: Manning

And as fan, I've always been more of a Manning hater than advocate. I believe that the media robbed Favre of his 4th MVP in 09 and gave their golden boy Manning his fourth MVP instead. And maybe Manning won't go down as that great of a big time player. I think people like to put single games or quarters or drives too much in a vacuum when there's a ton of factors that contribute a team's success. Realistically, by the eyeball test, Manning is probably top five or ten of all-time period. All the choke talk, that's hater talk from one hater to another. LOL.


----------



## BluePhantom

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> True, he is just a troll, look at his la lambs thread, nothing but pages and pages of blah blah blah!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know about being a troll.... I think he just has a severe case of homerism. Seriously, a year plus ago he'd have been arguing that Kafernick was better than Marino or Manning had he been a Niners fan. That's how bad he's got wood for Wilson. Seriously, Phantom see a doctor if an erection lasts for more than four hours!
Click to expand...


Well that's fine advice there TGG.  I will certainly keep that in mind if the day ever comes that I require medication for erectile dysfunction.  Of course, as I am sure *you *are aware, that medication doesn't work for a certain percentage of the population.  Thankfully, if I ever run into the issue, I know who to come to for further advice.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

9/11 inside job said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle fans have become the new New England fans. They actually have convinced themselves that Russell fucking Wilson is better than Dan Marino!
> 
> 
> 
> Im a Wilson fan but I find him more comparable to this generations tom brady than I do with Marino.Marion had to carry the load on his shoulders and was a choker in regular season games,brady is neither of those two and neither is Wilson.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of chokers.
> 
> Most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history is Peyton Manning, second is Dan Marino. The most game winning drives in the NFL is Peyton Manning and Dan Marino with 51 each.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't bother him with facts. He'll have none of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah I kinda discovered that about him way back this fall when I took him to school on the Rams coming back just to watch him change the subject everytime I cornered him on that.
> 
> He is really losing it now.Dont know where he came up with that absurd comment I was bringing politics into this discussion.sure I did when I mentioned bill Clinton but that was only AFTER he said that.Before then, I was talking strictly about sports.
> 
> this is what you end up doing when you try and have any kind of discussion with him.
> 
> that seems to be a common trait among seahawks fans.arrogant and wont look at facts.Blue Phantom being the exception of course..
> 
> I see you live in California.I never noticed that before. Oh man I am so jealous of you.That was why I became a Rams fan in the first place was because they were based in California which is my favorite state so even I who have  lived here in the Midwest my whole life,was depressed when they moved away even though they were much closer to me.anything other than the name LOS ANGELES in front of the name Rams,i don't want no part of.I turned to the chargers after they left.
> 
> you LIVING in California and all,i figure you might be interested in this.if you are,mark your calendars for these dates.feb15th which is a month from tomorrow and march 1st.those are the key dates to look for. on the 15th of that month is when the announcement is expected from the rams that they are moving back to LA this year.
> 
> then on march 1st,the owners will vote on it.that's the real key date because goddel has no say in this whatsoever contrary to what some fools around here actually believe such as him.
> 
> what matters is if the owners approve the move and I guarantee you,they will vote in favor of knoenke and he will easily get the 24 of the 31 votes needed by them to relocate,they all want it to happen except for that idiot spanos of the chargers.
> 
> you got to remember,27 of the 30 owners opposed the move from LA to saint Louis in 95,they only changed their votes in majority favoring AFTER the bitch threatened to sue,fools like him around here don't get it though  that goodel is powerless to stop the move.that he doesn't want an anti trust lawsuit against him.
> 
> talking to someone like him about that and others around here though,you might as well be talking to a brick wall .USMB seems to attract the most ignorant sports fans.
> 
> this sports message board I post at ,they are FAR more knowledgeable,open minded and objective about the rams coming back to LA than most here at USMB are.
> 
> so what part of California you live in? you being right there in the state its all happening in,you probably are on top of it almost as much as I am and know as well as I do its a done deal they are coming back THIS year am I right?
Click to expand...


LOL - I wouldn't necessarily classify BP as 'arrogant.' I think he genuinely believes or wants to believe what he's saying. It's just a really bad case of homerism as I said.

I was a Rams fan and Raiders hater in 94ish when they left...Yes, we still had the Chargers, but that was like yea, the Chargers. 

Most people stopped caring about whether LA has a team tbh. Once we hit the five year mark, we were just like well if the NFL doesn't want a team in the second biggest market then that's their problem. There's not a shortage of entertainment options otherwise.


----------



## HUGGY

Papageorgio said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle fans have become the new New England fans. They actually have convinced themselves that Russell fucking Wilson is better than Dan Marino!
> 
> 
> 
> Im a Wilson fan but I find him more comparable to this generations tom brady than I do with Marino.Marion had to carry the load on his shoulders and was a choker in regular season games,brady is neither of those two and neither is Wilson.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of chokers.
> 
> Most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history is Peyton Manning, second is Dan Marino. The most game winning drives in the NFL is Peyton Manning and Dan Marino with 51 each.
Click to expand...


So you are going to penalize Wilson for NOT being behind in the fourth qtr as often as Marino or Manning?

Also you bring up a silly stat that primarily can only be held by someone like Marino that was an NFL QB for 17 years.

Laughable !


----------



## BluePhantom

TheGreatGatsby said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle fans have become the new New England fans. They actually have convinced themselves that Russell fucking Wilson is better than Dan Marino!
> 
> 
> 
> Im a Wilson fan but I find him more comparable to this generations tom brady than I do with Marino.Marion had to carry the load on his shoulders and was a choker in regular season games,brady is neither of those two and neither is Wilson.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of chokers.
> 
> Most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history is Peyton Manning, second is Dan Marino. The most game winning drives in the NFL is Peyton Manning and Dan Marino with 51 each.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't bother him with facts. He'll have none of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah I kinda discovered that about him way back this fall when I took him to school on the Rams coming back just to watch him change the subject everytime I cornered him on that.
> 
> He is really losing it now.Dont know where he came up with that absurd comment I was bringing politics into this discussion.sure I did when I mentioned bill Clinton but that was only AFTER he said that.Before then, I was talking strictly about sports.
> 
> this is what you end up doing when you try and have any kind of discussion with him.
> 
> that seems to be a common trait among seahawks fans.arrogant and wont look at facts.Blue Phantom being the exception of course..
> 
> I see you live in California.I never noticed that before. Oh man I am so jealous of you.That was why I became a Rams fan in the first place was because they were based in California which is my favorite state so even I who have  lived here in the Midwest my whole life,was depressed when they moved away even though they were much closer to me.anything other than the name LOS ANGELES in front of the name Rams,i don't want no part of.I turned to the chargers after they left.
> 
> you LIVING in California and all,i figure you might be interested in this.if you are,mark your calendars for these dates.feb15th which is a month from tomorrow and march 1st.those are the key dates to look for. on the 15th of that month is when the announcement is expected from the rams that they are moving back to LA this year.
> 
> then on march 1st,the owners will vote on it.that's the real key date because goddel has no say in this whatsoever contrary to what some fools around here actually believe such as him.
> 
> what matters is if the owners approve the move and I guarantee you,they will vote in favor of knoenke and he will easily get the 24 of the 31 votes needed by them to relocate,they all want it to happen except for that idiot spanos of the chargers.
> 
> you got to remember,27 of the 30 owners opposed the move from LA to saint Louis in 95,they only changed their votes in majority favoring AFTER the bitch threatened to sue,fools like him around here don't get it though  that goodel is powerless to stop the move.that he doesn't want an anti trust lawsuit against him.
> 
> talking to someone like him about that and others around here though,you might as well be talking to a brick wall .USMB seems to attract the most ignorant sports fans.
> 
> this sports message board I post at ,they are FAR more knowledgeable,open minded and objective about the rams coming back to LA than most here at USMB are.
> 
> so what part of California you live in? you being right there in the state its all happening in,you probably are on top of it almost as much as I am and know as well as I do its a done deal they are coming back THIS year am I right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL - I wouldn't necessarily classify BP as 'arrogant.' I think he genuinely believes or wants to believe what he's saying. It's just a really bad case of homerism as I said.
> 
> I was a Rams fan and Raiders hater in 94ish when they left...Yes, we still had the Chargers, but that was like yea, the Chargers.
> 
> Most people stopped caring about whether LA has a team tbh. Once we hit the five year mark, we were just like well if the NFL doesn't want a team in the second biggest market then that's their problem. There's not a shortage of entertainment options otherwise.
Click to expand...



Actually if you go back and look at the OP I wasn't arguing that Wilson was a better QB than Manning.  Neither did I title the thread "Wilson HAS bested Manning's Legacy" or "Wilson WILL Best Manning's Legacy". While I think there are some things Wilson does better than Manning  the reality is that I was not making the argument that he currently was.  We just got into a pissing match, it was kind of fun, so I went with it.


----------



## Papageorgio

Treeshepherd said:


> Point 1: if you think Clayton and Duper were ordinary WRs and you had to look them up to remind yourself of their existence, you weren't paying attention to the Fish in the '80s.
> 
> Peyton Manning was born with a genetic defect that causes his neck airways to constrict in the month of January. In other words, he's a choker. HOF, sure, how can u keep him out? Top 5 all time? No forking way! I don't buy that hype. If you want to point to a Denver QB who did more with less, look at Elway's one man teams.
> 
> SF almost beat Seattle last year. It was Wilson's escapability that made the diff. Seattle went on to embarrass Manning in the SB. SF would have crushed Denver and  laughed at Manning's wounded duck passes just the same.
> Manning is good at saying Omaha and making audibles, and he usually has an accurate arm.
> But Wilson never suffers from Manning's choking disease.



Right, how many points did you expect Manning to score on Seattle 40? Still wouldn't be enough. The defense was terrible also . The QB isn't the only on the field and they are never on the field at the same time.


----------



## Papageorgio

HUGGY said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle fans have become the new New England fans. They actually have convinced themselves that Russell fucking Wilson is better than Dan Marino!
> 
> 
> 
> Im a Wilson fan but I find him more comparable to this generations tom brady than I do with Marino.Marion had to carry the load on his shoulders and was a choker in regular season games,brady is neither of those two and neither is Wilson.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of chokers.
> 
> Most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history is Peyton Manning, second is Dan Marino. The most game winning drives in the NFL is Peyton Manning and Dan Marino with 51 each.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you are going to penalize Wilson for NOT being behind in the fourth qtr as often as Marino or Manning?
> 
> Also you bring up a silly stat that primarily can only be held by someone like Marino that was an NFL QB for 17 years.
> 
> Laughable !
Click to expand...


I wasn't penalizing anyone, your butt buddy 911 tinfoil nut made a claim that Marino was a choker, I put the real stats out there that showed a different view. Sorry not every post is about Wilson.


----------



## HUGGY

Papageorgio said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle fans have become the new New England fans. They actually have convinced themselves that Russell fucking Wilson is better than Dan Marino!
> 
> 
> 
> Im a Wilson fan but I find him more comparable to this generations tom brady than I do with Marino.Marion had to carry the load on his shoulders and was a choker in regular season games,brady is neither of those two and neither is Wilson.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of chokers.
> 
> Most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history is Peyton Manning, second is Dan Marino. The most game winning drives in the NFL is Peyton Manning and Dan Marino with 51 each.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you are going to penalize Wilson for NOT being behind in the fourth qtr as often as Marino or Manning?
> 
> Also you bring up a silly stat that primarily can only be held by someone like Marino that was an NFL QB for 17 years.
> 
> Laughable !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wasn't penalizing anyone, your butt buddy 911 tinfoil nut made a claim that Marino was a choker, I put the real stats out there that showed a different view. *Sorry not every post is about Wilson*.
Click to expand...


In a thread titled:
 "*Russell Wilson vs. Peyton Manning - Can Wilson Best Manning's Legacy?"?
*
Well, one would probably not be wrong to argue that it(the OP) ISN"T about Marino.

Why does 9/11 have to be my "butt buddy"?
Please post a link to WHEN I have responded to one of his posts.

I didn't know that Marino was behind in the 4th qtr in league history leading fashion.  Personally I wouldn't try to argue that as a reason to place him on a pedestal.


----------



## Treeshepherd

I have no argument against Marino. Great QB. Better than Manning. 

Elway was vastly better than Manning ( and Marino for that matter ). Think fast. Can you name a WR on the Broncos during the '80s? They had the Three Amigos. If there was ever a pedestrian group of  WRs and RBs, it was the 80s supporting cast for Elway. Yet, he rarely lost in the playoffs, engineered some historical rallies and got his ass kicked in 3 Super Bowls. 

Brady, better than Manning. Favre, better than Manning. I could go on for pages. Manning has great career regular season numbers. He's the Alex Rodriguez of football.


----------



## Papageorgio

HUGGY said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle fans have become the new New England fans. They actually have convinced themselves that Russell fucking Wilson is better than Dan Marino!
> 
> 
> 
> Im a Wilson fan but I find him more comparable to this generations tom brady than I do with Marino.Marion had to carry the load on his shoulders and was a choker in regular season games,brady is neither of those two and neither is Wilson.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of chokers.
> 
> Most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history is Peyton Manning, second is Dan Marino. The most game winning drives in the NFL is Peyton Manning and Dan Marino with 51 each.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you are going to penalize Wilson for NOT being behind in the fourth qtr as often as Marino or Manning?
> 
> Also you bring up a silly stat that primarily can only be held by someone like Marino that was an NFL QB for 17 years.
> 
> Laughable !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wasn't penalizing anyone, your butt buddy 911 tinfoil nut made a claim that Marino was a choker, I put the real stats out there that showed a different view. *Sorry not every post is about Wilson*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In a thread titled:
> "*Russell Wilson vs. Peyton Manning - Can Wilson Best Manning's Legacy?"?
> *
> Well, one would probably not be wrong to argue that it(the OP) ISN"T about Marino.
> 
> Why does 9/11 have to be my "butt buddy"?
> Please post a link to WHEN I have responded to one of his posts.
> 
> I didn't know that Marino was behind in the 4th qtr in league history leading fashion.  Personally I wouldn't try to argue that as a reason to place him on a pedestal.
Click to expand...

Huggy your brain has quit functioning again. I wasn't placing him or anyone else on a pedestal, I was responding to an idiot and his claim of Marino as choking.

If you have a problem with Marino being brought in the thread, call 911 nut job out on it not me.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

TheGreatGatsby said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle fans have become the new New England fans. They actually have convinced themselves that Russell fucking Wilson is better than Dan Marino!
> 
> 
> 
> Im a Wilson fan but I find him more comparable to this generations tom brady than I do with Marino.Marion had to carry the load on his shoulders and was a choker in regular season games,brady is neither of those two and neither is Wilson.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of chokers.
> 
> Most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history is Peyton Manning, second is Dan Marino. The most game winning drives in the NFL is Peyton Manning and Dan Marino with 51 each.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't bother him with facts. He'll have none of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah I kinda discovered that about him way back this fall when I took him to school on the Rams coming back just to watch him change the subject everytime I cornered him on that.
> 
> He is really losing it now.Dont know where he came up with that absurd comment I was bringing politics into this discussion.sure I did when I mentioned bill Clinton but that was only AFTER he said that.Before then, I was talking strictly about sports.
> 
> this is what you end up doing when you try and have any kind of discussion with him.
> 
> that seems to be a common trait among seahawks fans.arrogant and wont look at facts.Blue Phantom being the exception of course..
> 
> I see you live in California.I never noticed that before. Oh man I am so jealous of you.That was why I became a Rams fan in the first place was because they were based in California which is my favorite state so even I who have  lived here in the Midwest my whole life,was depressed when they moved away even though they were much closer to me.anything other than the name LOS ANGELES in front of the name Rams,i don't want no part of.I turned to the chargers after they left.
> 
> you LIVING in California and all,i figure you might be interested in this.if you are,mark your calendars for these dates.feb15th which is a month from tomorrow and march 1st.those are the key dates to look for. on the 15th of that month is when the announcement is expected from the rams that they are moving back to LA this year.
> 
> then on march 1st,the owners will vote on it.that's the real key date because goddel has no say in this whatsoever contrary to what some fools around here actually believe such as him.
> 
> what matters is if the owners approve the move and I guarantee you,they will vote in favor of knoenke and he will easily get the 24 of the 31 votes needed by them to relocate,they all want it to happen except for that idiot spanos of the chargers.
> 
> you got to remember,27 of the 30 owners opposed the move from LA to saint Louis in 95,they only changed their votes in majority favoring AFTER the bitch threatened to sue,fools like him around here don't get it though  that goodel is powerless to stop the move.that he doesn't want an anti trust lawsuit against him.
> 
> talking to someone like him about that and others around here though,you might as well be talking to a brick wall .USMB seems to attract the most ignorant sports fans.
> 
> this sports message board I post at ,they are FAR more knowledgeable,open minded and objective about the rams coming back to LA than most here at USMB are.
> 
> so what part of California you live in? you being right there in the state its all happening in,you probably are on top of it almost as much as I am and know as well as I do its a done deal they are coming back THIS year am I right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL - I wouldn't necessarily classify BP as 'arrogant.' I think he genuinely believes or wants to believe what he's saying. It's just a really bad case of homerism as I said.
> 
> I was a Rams fan and Raiders hater in 94ish when they left...Yes, we still had the Chargers, but that was like yea, the Chargers.
> 
> Most people stopped caring about whether LA has a team tbh. Once we hit the five year mark, we were just like well if the NFL doesn't want a team in the second biggest market then that's their problem. There's not a shortage of entertainment options otherwise.
Click to expand...


For the record,I wasn't talking about BP being arrogant.I was talking about two other seahawks fans here that are whose names I wont mention.lol

BP in fact is the first seahawk fan I have ever met who I have found  is NOT arrogant.so its good to know they are not ALL like that.I've only talked to three of them and one out of three isn't bad ,my conversations with BP reassures me that they are not all arrogant and close minded which is good to know.

For a long time I was thinking practically all seahawks fans out there were that way because I have heard from a few others at a sports  message board I  post at that Niner and Raider fans are arrogant but they got nothing on seahawk fans they said and from my experience  with a couple of them here,I have to agree with them on that.

I only disliked the raiders when they first came into the league but then when they moved to LA,I hated them with a fury as much as I do the cowboys and that's saying a lot.lol.

with them back in Oakland now its hard for me to hate them now though since they are back where they belong.and yeah I know what you mean,when the Rams left LA,I switched to the chargers and became a charger fan but its not the same though.as much as I love the chargers,I don't live and die with them like I did with the Rams.I don't get excited during football season leading up that whole week getting anxious for sunday to come around with the chargers like I always did with the Rams.

It wasn't till carrol and then Wilson two years later came along to join the Hawks,that my interest in NFL football got renewed.I always thought carrol got mistreated in boston with that jerk owner Kraft so I was happy for carrol when he was lucky enough to have Wilson fall to the number three spot so he could get him and make the seahawks into a winner.

as much as i hate the pats and would like to see them lose this sunday.I guess I wont mind it either if they make it to the superbowl.as much as I enjoyed seeing them beat that ass hole manning,it would be even sweeter seeing carrol have the last laugh against Kraft and winning the superbowl.

His coaching decisions and games sometimes make me say WTF? and piss me off but I always knew he was a great coach and that would be be in the superbowl again if he ever got a good quarterback to work with.

wilson was the first time he finally got one.Bledoe and Esiason were both on their last legs when he coached the jets and the pats so he didn't have anything to work with back then those two times.

I actually have a better opinion of jerry jones as well now.He is the ringleader in the return of the rams coming back to LA so its kinda hard for me to hate him now.Now its just a slight dislike.lol


----------



## LA RAM FAN

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> True, he is just a troll, look at his la lambs thread, nothing but pages and pages of blah blah blah!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know about being a troll.... I think he just has a severe case of homerism. Seriously, a year plus ago he'd have been arguing that Kafernick was better than Marino or Manning had he been a Niners fan. That's how bad he's got wood for Wilson. Seriously, Phantom see a doctor if an erection lasts for more than four hours!
Click to expand...

Dude Phantom has taken you to school and won every chessgame against you here educating you on how Wilson remains very calm in the pocket.I have never said Phontom was a troll and wasn't calling him one.I was referring to antiquity.he is one of the two seahawks fans around here who can never be bothered with facts.that if they don't go along with his warped opinion,he wont look at them.


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## LA RAM FAN

HUGGY said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle fans have become the new New England fans. They actually have convinced themselves that Russell fucking Wilson is better than Dan Marino!
> 
> 
> 
> Im a Wilson fan but I find him more comparable to this generations tom brady than I do with Marino.Marion had to carry the load on his shoulders and was a choker in regular season games,brady is neither of those two and neither is Wilson.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of chokers.
> 
> Most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history is Peyton Manning, second is Dan Marino. The most game winning drives in the NFL is Peyton Manning and Dan Marino with 51 each.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you are going to penalize Wilson for NOT being behind in the fourth qtr as often as Marino or Manning?
> 
> Also you bring up a silly stat that primarily can only be held by someone like Marino that was an NFL QB for 17 years.
> 
> Laughable !
Click to expand...


sure is laughable all right.especially considering the fact that they were down 10 points in the second half last year in the NFC title game against the niners who at that time had a GREAT defense and were in the superbowl the previous year.

seems that he forgets that Wilson was super clutch that game completing a pass on 4th and ten for a touchdown that was a key in the victory.then there is the game as well last year against the bucs where they were down three touchdowns to the Bucs.sounds pretty clutch and calm to me and sounds like a quarterback who can bring his team back form deficits to me as well.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Treeshepherd said:


> I have no argument against Marino. Great QB. Better than Manning.
> 
> Elway was vastly better than Manning ( and Marino for that matter ). Think fast. Can you name a WR on the Broncos during the '80s? They had the Three Amigos. If there was ever a pedestrian group of  WRs and RBs, it was the 80s supporting cast for Elway. Yet, he rarely lost in the playoffs, engineered some historical rallies and got his ass kicked in 3 Super Bowls.
> 
> Brady, better than Manning. Favre, better than Manning. I could go on for pages. Manning has great career regular season numbers. He's the Alex Rodriguez of football.




for anyone to suggest Manning could hold a candle to Elway needs to get off the pipe they been smoking.Elways first superbowl win matter of fact came against Farve.Look who Mannings one superbowl win came against.Rex Grossman.a washed up journeyman backup quarterback now who showed his true colors that day.Is he even still in the league now?

That's how much he has dissapeard cause i honestly don't know the answer.


----------



## antiquity

9/11 inside job said:


> antiquity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> trolls pooper and disinfo agent rightwinger hate the truth bring told and seeing Gatsby being taken to school here by Blue Phantom.
> 
> Not suprising THEY are the ones doing the agreeing ignoring the facts how Phantom won the chess game every time taking him to school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you always have to be a moron and bring politic into play. I think you are the least respected poster on this thread as your stupid name implies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> politics?
> 
> Look who's the moron.the jerk who refuses to look at an opposing view different than his own whether its the truth about 9/11 or the rams coming back to LA, doesn't matter.lol
> 
> oh and hate to break the news to you as well that agent troll rightwinger is the most disrespected poster at USMB.
> 
> I have seen literally over a hundred people call him out in the years I been here on his outright lies he makes up all the time avoiding when he is proven wrong.
> 
> kinda like you and many others have who have recently made up outright lies that they never said the rams wouldn't be coming back.then when I cornered them and showed their previous posts when they DID say that,they of course changed the subject just like you always do when your cornered.
> 
> this  site seems to draw in the biggest trolls. thank god other message  boards,sports fans aren't anywhere near the stupidity as the likes of people like you,pooper,and rightwinger since unlike you three,they would look at the facts back then I posted that the rams indeed are coming home THIS year which you probably still are going to say isn't happening just like you kept saying no team in the NFL would be coming back to LA anytime soon in the future.
> 
> you need to look in the mirror when calling someone a moron,someone who ignores expert witness testimony and facts that proved the rams were coming home.
> 
> waits to watch you try and weasel out of it and CLAIM  you never said it just like so many others have recently as I knew they would.
> 
> I KNEW several months ago all the idiots that kept ignoring my facts the rasm are coming back would then try and weasel their way out of it and claim they never said they were nto coming back cause they are too arrogant just as you are to admit when they have been proven wrong by me so you will do the same thing of course as they did and deny you never said that which is bullshit.
> 
> I called those posters out who claimed they never said that reposting their bs and of course they changed the subject or ran off as you did when I proved you wrong recently.
Click to expand...


One: I never expressed a view about 911 on this web site so where do you get refuses opposing views. 
Anyway... this is still the 'Sports thread'... so take you 911 to the political thread, I am sure you can get some sympathy there. Or maybe not.

Two: I think I said I could care less where the Rams play next year and I still feel that way. And lookie it didn't take 10K words to say that.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

someone farted in here.^ that means just so you know,I did not read your latest babble past the first five words anyways.nor will i read any others of yours here on this thread either.

trying to have a rational discussion with you and Huggy about anything outside of what the seahawks do using logic,common sense and facts is like talking to a brick wall i have learned.

Whether it has to do with the rams coming back to LA or government corruption or anything.If its not about the seahawks,facts never register with you two.

you two should get a room together.

as I said,sure is glad to see BP posting here.I was beginning to think ALL seahawks fans were as ignorant as you and Huggy are outside of talk if it doesnt concern the seahawks.

Like I said,another sports message board I post at,they have said the same thing,that raider and 49er fans got nothing on seahawks fans with their arrogance and stupidity they display.I have to agree with them.BP being the exception of course.

oh and lastly,just because the truth scares you about 9/11 and you dont want to listen to the facts on it same as you did not want to hear them on the rams returning,doesnt mean its not true.

this is what you and huggy do when confronted with facts you cant refute on other subjects that dont concern the seahawks..


----------



## LA RAM FAN

TheGreatGatsby said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle fans have become the new New England fans. They actually have convinced themselves that Russell fucking Wilson is better than Dan Marino!
> 
> 
> 
> Im a Wilson fan but I find him more comparable to this generations tom brady than I do with Marino.Marion had to carry the load on his shoulders and was a choker in regular season games,brady is neither of those two and neither is Wilson.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of chokers.
> 
> Most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history is Peyton Manning, second is Dan Marino. The most game winning drives in the NFL is Peyton Manning and Dan Marino with 51 each.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't bother him with facts. He'll have none of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah I kinda discovered that about him way back this fall when I took him to school on the Rams coming back just to watch him change the subject everytime I cornered him on that.
> 
> He is really losing it now.Dont know where he came up with that absurd comment I was bringing politics into this discussion.sure I did when I mentioned bill Clinton but that was only AFTER he said that.Before then, I was talking strictly about sports.
> 
> this is what you end up doing when you try and have any kind of discussion with him.
> 
> that seems to be a common trait among seahawks fans.arrogant and wont look at facts.Blue Phantom being the exception of course..
> 
> I see you live in California.I never noticed that before. Oh man I am so jealous of you.That was why I became a Rams fan in the first place was because they were based in California which is my favorite state so even I who have  lived here in the Midwest my whole life,was depressed when they moved away even though they were much closer to me.anything other than the name LOS ANGELES in front of the name Rams,i don't want no part of.I turned to the chargers after they left.
> 
> you LIVING in California and all,i figure you might be interested in this.if you are,mark your calendars for these dates.feb15th which is a month from tomorrow and march 1st.those are the key dates to look for. on the 15th of that month is when the announcement is expected from the rams that they are moving back to LA this year.
> 
> then on march 1st,the owners will vote on it.that's the real key date because goddel has no say in this whatsoever contrary to what some fools around here actually believe such as him.
> 
> what matters is if the owners approve the move and I guarantee you,they will vote in favor of knoenke and he will easily get the 24 of the 31 votes needed by them to relocate,they all want it to happen except for that idiot spanos of the chargers.
> 
> you got to remember,27 of the 30 owners opposed the move from LA to saint Louis in 95,they only changed their votes in majority favoring AFTER the bitch threatened to sue,fools like him around here don't get it though  that goodel is powerless to stop the move.that he doesn't want an anti trust lawsuit against him.
> 
> talking to someone like him about that and others around here though,you might as well be talking to a brick wall .USMB seems to attract the most ignorant sports fans.
> 
> this sports message board I post at ,they are FAR more knowledgeable,open minded and objective about the rams coming back to LA than most here at USMB are.
> 
> so what part of California you live in? you being right there in the state its all happening in,you probably are on top of it almost as much as I am and know as well as I do its a done deal they are coming back THIS year am I right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL - I wouldn't necessarily classify BP as 'arrogant.' I think he genuinely believes or wants to believe what he's saying. It's just a really bad case of homerism as I said.
> 
> I was a Rams fan and Raiders hater in 94ish when they left...Yes, we still had the Chargers, but that was like yea, the Chargers.
> 
> Most people stopped caring about whether LA has a team tbh. Once we hit the five year mark, we were just like well if the NFL doesn't want a team in the second biggest market then that's their problem. There's not a shortage of entertainment options otherwise.
Click to expand...


something else i forgot to mention was the rams moving out of LA was the darkest most depressing moment in my life.outside of losing family members and close friends of mine over the years that is of course. Other than that,it really WAS the most darkest most depressing moment in my lifetime.

I never thought it would possibly happen back then.that was why i knew they were coming back this year because saint louis fans were demonstrating the same kind of denial that I went through back then when they left LA so i know the signs all too well.

the same exact same things that were happening a year ago were happening there,it was obvious,but the saint louis apologists here did not want to listen to my facts though only seeing what they wanted to see for some reason.

them leaving was the same as having a wife you have been devoted to your life who you were faithful and loyal to deserting you for another man.thats the best way to explain it.you just feel betrayed and hurt never thinking they would do something like that to you. Its like a bitter divorce.I was so bitter i had to root for the other team to win all the time each week.

I will always be a fan of tom brady cause he made me so happy when he beat the rams in the superbowl the next time they made it back.

I never thought they would leave because you are talking about a team that had played there for over 50 years. thats like the yankees leaving new york for saint louis you just could not possibly imiagne that happpening.

Stan Kroneke will now become my NEW biggest hero in life in a exactly one month from now when it is expected that he makes the annoucement he is moving them back this year. Man i plan on getting drunk that night and calling in sick for work.

I never lost hope that they would return someday because again,were talking about a team that had been there for over 50 years with a long history there.

But more importantly,i never lost hope and never gave up that someday never knowing when of course,that they would return someday and that was because of the raiders going back to oakland.that was the first time a team had ever gone BACK to where they came from and since the rams had so much more history in LA the 2nd biggest market int he country no less,I never lost hope and faith and it finally paid off.

i always thought to myself-"I think they will come back someday,they got a long history there.Remember you never thought the raiders would go back to oakland either and you were wrong o that so maybe someday they will come back."

thats what I always told myself over the years and that time has no come.

LA RAMS 2015 baby

i dont care if they go 0 and 16 and get blown out in every game.screw the winning.i just want them back,the winning is a just a bonus for me.I hope to be there for opening day sept 2015 but that will be a tough ticket to get as well the first  preseason game so i will probably just go to the dodgers home opener this year so I can  celebrate with fans there this year.

how bout you,you plan on being a season ticket holder there by chance?


----------



## HUGGY




----------



## LA RAM FAN

it was funny GGB.all people did on my rams thread was say crap like stan kroneke is just using the LA land purchase for leverage for a new stadium in st louis or the chargers or raiders would go back to LA before the rams ever would,blah blah blah blah blah,

But now after the annoucement kroneke made of building a stadium there for the NFL,they of course are all LYING saying they never said any of those things just as i knew they  would back then.

problem is,they forgot this place keeps records of past posts you make and everytime i repost what they said that proves they DID say those things,they all change the subject of course knowing they are cornered. they cant merely admit they were acting like idiots and simply apologize for their stupidity they displayed,they have to change the subject and say things like-hey i dont care if they come back,if they do thats fine.

yeah you didnt care,thats why you blatantly ignored my facts back then trolling there and trolling now LYING that you never said thosse things and change the subject.people like that make me sick.

the people who DID listen to me back then at the start of the football season who DID look at my facts,i had pm conversations with them and they would say-you will enjoy having the last laugh on them when they come back next year in 2015.

they were right,its been fun watching them LIE now saying they never said they were not coming back just like i KNEW they would back then when i made that thread. again they can lie,but i can repost the posts which prove they lied,they cant get around that little thing that this place keeps records of past posts.


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## antiquity

9/11 inside job said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
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> 9/11 inside job said:
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> Papageorgio said:
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> 9/11 inside job said:
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> 
> Im a Wilson fan but I find him more comparable to this generations tom brady than I do with Marino.Marion had to carry the load on his shoulders and was a choker in regular season games,brady is neither of those two and neither is Wilson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of chokers.
> 
> Most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history is Peyton Manning, second is Dan Marino. The most game winning drives in the NFL is Peyton Manning and Dan Marino with 51 each.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't bother him with facts. He'll have none of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah I kinda discovered that about him way back this fall when I took him to school on the Rams coming back just to watch him change the subject everytime I cornered him on that.
> 
> He is really losing it now.Dont know where he came up with that absurd comment I was bringing politics into this discussion.sure I did when I mentioned bill Clinton but that was only AFTER he said that.Before then, I was talking strictly about sports.
> 
> this is what you end up doing when you try and have any kind of discussion with him.
> 
> that seems to be a common trait among seahawks fans.arrogant and wont look at facts.Blue Phantom being the exception of course..
> 
> I see you live in California.I never noticed that before. Oh man I am so jealous of you.That was why I became a Rams fan in the first place was because they were based in California which is my favorite state so even I who have  lived here in the Midwest my whole life,was depressed when they moved away even though they were much closer to me.anything other than the name LOS ANGELES in front of the name Rams,i don't want no part of.I turned to the chargers after they left.
> 
> you LIVING in California and all,i figure you might be interested in this.if you are,mark your calendars for these dates.feb15th which is a month from tomorrow and march 1st.those are the key dates to look for. on the 15th of that month is when the announcement is expected from the rams that they are moving back to LA this year.
> 
> then on march 1st,the owners will vote on it.that's the real key date because goddel has no say in this whatsoever contrary to what some fools around here actually believe such as him.
> 
> what matters is if the owners approve the move and I guarantee you,they will vote in favor of knoenke and he will easily get the 24 of the 31 votes needed by them to relocate,they all want it to happen except for that idiot spanos of the chargers.
> 
> you got to remember,27 of the 30 owners opposed the move from LA to saint Louis in 95,they only changed their votes in majority favoring AFTER the bitch threatened to sue,fools like him around here don't get it though  that goodel is powerless to stop the move.that he doesn't want an anti trust lawsuit against him.
> 
> talking to someone like him about that and others around here though,you might as well be talking to a brick wall .USMB seems to attract the most ignorant sports fans.
> 
> this sports message board I post at ,they are FAR more knowledgeable,open minded and objective about the rams coming back to LA than most here at USMB are.
> 
> so what part of California you live in? you being right there in the state its all happening in,you probably are on top of it almost as much as I am and know as well as I do its a done deal they are coming back THIS year am I right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL - I wouldn't necessarily classify BP as 'arrogant.' I think he genuinely believes or wants to believe what he's saying. It's just a really bad case of homerism as I said.
> 
> I was a Rams fan and Raiders hater in 94ish when they left...Yes, we still had the Chargers, but that was like yea, the Chargers.
> 
> Most people stopped caring about whether LA has a team tbh. Once we hit the five year mark, we were just like well if the NFL doesn't want a team in the second biggest market then that's their problem. There's not a shortage of entertainment options otherwise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> something else i forgot to mention was the rams moving out of LA was the darkest most depressing moment in my life.outside of losing family members and close friends of mine over the years that is of course. Other than that,it really WAS the most darkest most depressing moment in my lifetime.
> 
> I never thought it would possibly happen back then.that was why i knew they were coming back this year because saint louis fans were demonstrating the same kind of denial that I went through back then when they left LA so i know the signs all too well.
> 
> the same exact same things that were happening a year ago were happening there,it was obvious,but the saint louis apologists here did not want to listen to my facts though only seeing what they wanted to see for some reason.
> 
> them leaving was the same as having a wife you have been devoted to your life who you were faithful and loyal to deserting you for another man.thats the best way to explain it.you just feel betrayed and hurt never thinking they would do something like that to you. Its like a bitter divorce.I was so bitter i had to root for the other team to win all the time each week.
> 
> I will always be a fan of tom brady cause he made me so happy when he beat the rams in the superbowl the next time they made it back.
> 
> I never thought they would leave because you are talking about a team that had played there for over 50 years. thats like the yankees leaving new york for saint louis you just could not possibly imiagne that happpening.
> 
> Stan Kroneke will now become my NEW biggest hero in life in a exactly one month from now when it is expected that he makes the annoucement he is moving them back this year. Man i plan on getting drunk that night and calling in sick for work.
> 
> I never lost hope that they would return someday because again,were talking about a team that had been there for over 50 years with a long history there.
> 
> But more importantly,i never lost hope and never gave up that someday never knowing when of course,that they would return someday and that was because of the raiders going back to oakland.that was the first time a team had ever gone BACK to where they came from and since the rams had so much more history in LA the 2nd biggest market int he country no less,I never lost hope and faith and it finally paid off.
> 
> i always thought to myself-"I think they will come back someday,they got a long history there.Remember you never thought the raiders would go back to oakland either and you were wrong o that so maybe someday they will come back."
> 
> thats what I always told myself over the years and that time has no come.
> 
> LA RAMS 2015 baby
> 
> i dont care if they go 0 and 16 and get blown out in every game.screw the winning.i just want them back,the winning is a just a bonus for me.I hope to be there for opening day sept 2015 but that will be a tough ticket to get as well the first  preseason game so i will probably just go to the dodgers home opener this year so I can  celebrate with fans there this year.
> 
> how bout you,you plan on being a season ticket holder there by chance?
Click to expand...


Who cares....not me.


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## Toro

HUGGY said:


>



rofl


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## TheGreatGatsby

9/11 inside job said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
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> Papageorgio said:
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> 9/11 inside job said:
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> 
> Im a Wilson fan but I find him more comparable to this generations tom brady than I do with Marino.Marion had to carry the load on his shoulders and was a choker in regular season games,brady is neither of those two and neither is Wilson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of chokers.
> 
> Most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history is Peyton Manning, second is Dan Marino. The most game winning drives in the NFL is Peyton Manning and Dan Marino with 51 each.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't bother him with facts. He'll have none of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah I kinda discovered that about him way back this fall when I took him to school on the Rams coming back just to watch him change the subject everytime I cornered him on that.
> 
> He is really losing it now.Dont know where he came up with that absurd comment I was bringing politics into this discussion.sure I did when I mentioned bill Clinton but that was only AFTER he said that.Before then, I was talking strictly about sports.
> 
> this is what you end up doing when you try and have any kind of discussion with him.
> 
> that seems to be a common trait among seahawks fans.arrogant and wont look at facts.Blue Phantom being the exception of course..
> 
> I see you live in California.I never noticed that before. Oh man I am so jealous of you.That was why I became a Rams fan in the first place was because they were based in California which is my favorite state so even I who have  lived here in the Midwest my whole life,was depressed when they moved away even though they were much closer to me.anything other than the name LOS ANGELES in front of the name Rams,i don't want no part of.I turned to the chargers after they left.
> 
> you LIVING in California and all,i figure you might be interested in this.if you are,mark your calendars for these dates.feb15th which is a month from tomorrow and march 1st.those are the key dates to look for. on the 15th of that month is when the announcement is expected from the rams that they are moving back to LA this year.
> 
> then on march 1st,the owners will vote on it.that's the real key date because goddel has no say in this whatsoever contrary to what some fools around here actually believe such as him.
> 
> what matters is if the owners approve the move and I guarantee you,they will vote in favor of knoenke and he will easily get the 24 of the 31 votes needed by them to relocate,they all want it to happen except for that idiot spanos of the chargers.
> 
> you got to remember,27 of the 30 owners opposed the move from LA to saint Louis in 95,they only changed their votes in majority favoring AFTER the bitch threatened to sue,fools like him around here don't get it though  that goodel is powerless to stop the move.that he doesn't want an anti trust lawsuit against him.
> 
> talking to someone like him about that and others around here though,you might as well be talking to a brick wall .USMB seems to attract the most ignorant sports fans.
> 
> this sports message board I post at ,they are FAR more knowledgeable,open minded and objective about the rams coming back to LA than most here at USMB are.
> 
> so what part of California you live in? you being right there in the state its all happening in,you probably are on top of it almost as much as I am and know as well as I do its a done deal they are coming back THIS year am I right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL - I wouldn't necessarily classify BP as 'arrogant.' I think he genuinely believes or wants to believe what he's saying. It's just a really bad case of homerism as I said.
> 
> I was a Rams fan and Raiders hater in 94ish when they left...Yes, we still had the Chargers, but that was like yea, the Chargers.
> 
> Most people stopped caring about whether LA has a team tbh. Once we hit the five year mark, we were just like well if the NFL doesn't want a team in the second biggest market then that's their problem. There's not a shortage of entertainment options otherwise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For the record,I wasn't talking about BP being arrogant.I was talking about two other seahawks fans here that are whose names I wont mention.lol
> 
> BP in fact is the first seahawk fan I have ever met who I have found  is NOT arrogant.so its good to know they are not ALL like that.I've only talked to three of them and one out of three isn't bad ,my conversations with BP reassures me that they are not all arrogant and close minded which is good to know.
> 
> For a long time I was thinking practically all seahawks fans out there were that way because I have heard from a few others at a sports  message board I  post at that Niner and Raider fans are arrogant but they got nothing on seahawk fans they said and from my experience  with a couple of them here,I have to agree with them on that.
> 
> I only disliked the raiders when they first came into the league but then when they moved to LA,I hated them with a fury as much as I do the cowboys and that's saying a lot.lol.
> 
> with them back in Oakland now its hard for me to hate them now though since they are back where they belong.and yeah I know what you mean,when the Rams left LA,I switched to the chargers and became a charger fan but its not the same though.as much as I love the chargers,I don't live and die with them like I did with the Rams.I don't get excited during football season leading up that whole week getting anxious for sunday to come around with the chargers like I always did with the Rams.
> 
> It wasn't till carrol and then Wilson two years later came along to join the Hawks,that my interest in NFL football got renewed.I always thought carrol got mistreated in boston with that jerk owner Kraft so I was happy for carrol when he was lucky enough to have Wilson fall to the number three spot so he could get him and make the seahawks into a winner.
> 
> as much as i hate the pats and would like to see them lose this sunday.I guess I wont mind it either if they make it to the superbowl.as much as I enjoyed seeing them beat that ass hole manning,it would be even sweeter seeing carrol have the last laugh against Kraft and winning the superbowl.
> 
> His coaching decisions and games sometimes make me say WTF? and piss me off but I always knew he was a great coach and that would be be in the superbowl again if he ever got a good quarterback to work with.
> 
> wilson was the first time he finally got one.Bledoe and Esiason were both on their last legs when he coached the jets and the pats so he didn't have anything to work with back then those two times.
> 
> I actually have a better opinion of jerry jones as well now.He is the ringleader in the return of the rams coming back to LA so its kinda hard for me to hate him now.Now its just a slight dislike.lol
Click to expand...


Yea, I lived in Minnesota so I started rooting for the Vikings. But its nice when you live nearby your team and might go to a game here and there. If fans had any pride, they'd boycott games if an LA team finally moved here. But that's not going to happen.


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## TheGreatGatsby

9/11 inside job said:


> i dont care if they go 0 and 16 and get blown out in every game.screw the winning.i just want them back,the winning is a just a bonus for me.I hope to be there for opening day sept 2015 but that will be a tough ticket to get as well the first  preseason game so i will probably just go to the dodgers home opener this year so I can  celebrate with fans there this year.
> 
> how bout you,you plan on being a season ticket holder there by chance?



Yea, Georgia what's her face pulled a 'Major League' and it was totally obvious. She made the team suck to get the attendance low to get out of the lease and then she bailed because she was 'homesick.' A part of me was happy when she died.

A Dodger season ticket holder? Nah, I hate the Dodgers. 

And I don't know if I'd convert back to being a Rams fan if they moved back; and they won't btw. Their owner is just leveraging a move for a new stadium.


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## LA RAM FAN

TheGreatGatsby said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> i dont care if they go 0 and 16 and get blown out in every game.screw the winning.i just want them back,the winning is a just a bonus for me.I hope to be there for opening day sept 2015 but that will be a tough ticket to get as well the first  preseason game so i will probably just go to the dodgers home opener this year so I can  celebrate with fans there this year.
> 
> how bout you,you plan on being a season ticket holder there by chance?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, Georgia what's her face pulled a 'Major League' and it was totally obvious. She made the team suck to get the attendance low to get out of the lease and then she bailed because she was 'homesick.' A part of me was happy when she died.
> 
> A Dodger season ticket holder? Nah, I hate the Dodgers.
> 
> And I don't know if I'd convert back to being a Rams fan if they moved back; and they won't btw. Their owner is just leveraging a move for a new stadium.
Click to expand...


wow,I haven't heard that leverage thing in a long time.thats the first time I have heard that old leverage thing since the recent announcement to build a stadium there

Dude even a saint Louis  apologist  who came on my thread originally back in august who was back then saying that old tiresome leverage bullshit, even HE has now reversed his take on that and has gone from saying the rams would not come back to NOW saying they WILL come back to LA but it wont be for three years now.

He is one of several that has done an about face recently just as I knew they would claiming they never said the rams wouldn't come back only proving  that they lied when I reposted  what they said back then.

Like I said,when I reposted what they said that proved they lied,they either changed the subject to something else knowing they were cornered,or ran off with their tails between their legs after they knew they were proven wrong by me.lol THEY have rejoined earth recently,you haven't.lol

that's comedy gold that you actually believe stan will go back to that dump in st Louis and wait around for a stadium deal that's never going to happen.



After announcing he plans to build a stadium there nobody in st Louis will bother to show up for any games there what few do which is only around 30,000 or so with the majority always being from the opposing teams.

Dude he would have to be an idiot to go back to a place that has ZERO fan support with the majority of the crowds ALWAYS greatly outnumbering Rams fans which many hate the team now cause of the players ferguson thing and knowing he will leave them soon? that place would be lucky to get like 10,000 rams fans there now.nobody in the NFL wants that.

dude,get with the program,they are bankrupt in st Louis.they have NO MONEY whatsoever to fund a new stadium there.

they are going to spend the next 10 years trying to pay off hundreds of millions of dollars they STILL owe on the stadium NOW and yet,you seriously believe he will sit around and take money out of his own pocket like they are asking him to do, to build a new stadium there with a  non existant fan base that doesnt support that team at all when he can go to LA with a fan base that WILL  embrace him that is football starved and NOT have to do that?

welcome back to earth dude,thats not happening.

dude,they are tearing down Hollywood park as we speak to get ready for the construction of the new stadium as we speak,welcome back to earth Charlie,

Kroneke has had SEVERAL meetings with LA mayor james butts these past few weeks.
welcome to the real world dude..

you're going to be coming back to earth come exactly one month from now February 15th when the rams make their expected announcement to move back to LA.

even the fans in st Louis have now come back to reality and have now admitted  the truth that the rams are as good as gone this year.they been saying for the past year people like me were living in a fantasy world but not anymore now though.they are no longer even denying the facts anymore like they have the last year.
better start doing what I have done already which is go to NFL shop.com   and order your classic LA rams stuff.i already got a head jump on the crowd for this year.

oh and I don't like the dodgers myself by any means,just plan on going there to be around other LA ram fans to party and celebrate the return of them is why I am going to the home opener,screw the game and the dodgers.


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## HUGGY

The StupidGatsby  would go to an orphanage and find the cryingest baby and adopt it just so when he travels by air he has left his mark.

Nice work. Now let's see if you can undo it.


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## TheGreatGatsby

TheGreatGatsby said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> i dont care if they go 0 and 16 and get blown out in every game.screw the winning.i just want them back,the winning is a just a bonus for me.I hope to be there for opening day sept 2015 but that will be a tough ticket to get as well the first  preseason game so i will probably just go to the dodgers home opener this year so I can  celebrate with fans there this year.
> 
> how bout you,you plan on being a season ticket holder there by chance?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, Georgia what's her face pulled a 'Major League' and it was totally obvious. She made the team suck to get the attendance low to get out of the lease and then she bailed because she was 'homesick.' A part of me was happy when she died.
> 
> A Dodger season ticket holder? Nah, I hate the Dodgers.
> 
> And I don't know if I'd convert back to being a Rams fan if they moved back; and they won't btw. Their owner is just leveraging a move for a new stadium.
Click to expand...


I forgot to mention that Georgia had the audacity to blame the fans on her way out. It's one thing to do what she did to get the team out. But her unfounded shot was what made me realize that that lady was unconsciousable.


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## TheGreatGatsby

HUGGY said:


> The StupidGatsby  would go to an orphanage and find the cryingest baby and adopt it just so when he travels by air he has left his mark.
> 
> Nice work. Now let's see if you can undo it.



What a belabored analogy.


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## HUGGY

TheGreatGatsby said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> The StupidGatsby  would go to an orphanage and find the cryingest baby and adopt it just so when he travels by air he has left his mark.
> 
> Nice work. Now let's see if you can undo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a belabored analogy.
Click to expand...


And still it holds no candle to what you did to this thread.

Thanks.


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## TheGreatGatsby

HUGGY said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
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> HUGGY said:
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> The StupidGatsby  would go to an orphanage and find the cryingest baby and adopt it just so when he travels by air he has left his mark.
> 
> Nice work. Now let's see if you can undo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a belabored analogy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And still it holds no candle to what you did to this thread.
> 
> Thanks.
Click to expand...


Yea, I guess I interrupted the circle jerk. Blue Phantom apparently agrees.


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## BluePhantom

TheGreatGatsby said:


> HUGGY said:
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> TheGreatGatsby said:
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> HUGGY said:
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> The StupidGatsby  would go to an orphanage and find the cryingest baby and adopt it just so when he travels by air he has left his mark.
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> Nice work. Now let's see if you can undo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a belabored analogy.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> And still it holds no candle to what you did to this thread.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yea, I guess I interrupted the circle jerk. Blue Phantom apparently agrees.
Click to expand...


You are the one who brought up erections, viagra, and circle jerks dude.  You seem to have a real fixation on the male genitalia.


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## BluePhantom

TheGreatGatsby said:


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> The StupidGatsby  would go to an orphanage and find the cryingest baby and adopt it just so when he travels by air he has left his mark.
> 
> Nice work. Now let's see if you can undo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a belabored analogy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And still it holds no candle to what you did to this thread.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yea, I guess I interrupted the circle jerk. Blue Phantom apparently agrees.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are the one who brought up erections, viagra, and circle jerks dude.  You seem to have a real fixation on the male genitalia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pretty cheap comeback. I think I'll let you have the final retort if that's all you got.
Click to expand...


I am just going with what you threw out there dude.  If you think it's cheap you must not have a lot of respect for your own arguments since those are things *you *said.


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## TheGreatGatsby

BluePhantom said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
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> TheGreatGatsby said:
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> What a belabored analogy.
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> And still it holds no candle to what you did to this thread.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yea, I guess I interrupted the circle jerk. Blue Phantom apparently agrees.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are the one who brought up erections, viagra, and circle jerks dude.  You seem to have a real fixation on the male genitalia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pretty cheap comeback. I think I'll let you have the final retort if that's all you got.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am just going with what you threw out there dude.  If you think it's cheap you must not have a lot of respect for your own arguments since those are things *you *said.
Click to expand...


I have no problem with what I said. I thought what I said was truthful if not otherwise funny. The direction you're taking is a desperate road to nowhere.


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## BluePhantom

TheGreatGatsby said:


> BluePhantom said:
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> HUGGY said:
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> And still it holds no candle to what you did to this thread.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, I guess I interrupted the circle jerk. Blue Phantom apparently agrees.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are the one who brought up erections, viagra, and circle jerks dude.  You seem to have a real fixation on the male genitalia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pretty cheap comeback. I think I'll let you have the final retort if that's all you got.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am just going with what you threw out there dude.  If you think it's cheap you must not have a lot of respect for your own arguments since those are things *you *said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have no problem with what I said. I thought what I said was truthful if not otherwise funny. The direction you're taking is a desperate road to nowhere.
Click to expand...


And I appreciate your truthfulness and wisdom.  There is a benefit to me in the future that if I ever experience erectile dysfunction I can call on my friend TGG, who is apparently quite experienced in the condition, to advise me.   I sincerely appreciate your willingness to share


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## TheGreatGatsby

BluePhantom said:


> And I appreciate your truthfulness and wisdom.  There is a benefit to me in the future that if I ever experience erectile dysfunction I can call on my friend TGG, who is apparently quite experienced in the condition, to advise me.   I sincerely appreciate your willingness to share



Uh huh.


----------



## BluePhantom

TheGreatGatsby said:


> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I appreciate your truthfulness and wisdom.  There is a benefit to me in the future that if I ever experience erectile dysfunction I can call on my friend TGG, who is apparently quite experienced in the condition, to advise me.   I sincerely appreciate your willingness to share
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uh huh.
Click to expand...


You know TGG I appreciate completely your willingness to share your advice regarding erectile dysfunction. It is an issue sensitive to men and I applaud you for having the courage to share your experiences.  I feel secure in the knowledge that if and when the day comes that I experience an inability to perform that I will have you to provide me with mentorship as i value the voice of experience in all matters. Your generosity however, certainly deserves a reward.  As you are clearly knowledgeable and experienced about the the condition of erectile dysfunction it occurs to me that your wife may be experiencing some difficulties of her own in coping with your condition.  I would consider it my honor and a service to you to act as your champion in order to ensure that your wife experiences the absolute minimum inconvenience in regards to your condition.  Believe me when I say _*the pleasure would be all mine*_. As I anticipate you may be embarrassed by such a scenario I have taken it upon myself to contact your wife directly so as to spare you from any emotional or psychological after effects.  She is in agreement that we both care about you, we both respect you, and we both want the best for you.  Hence our decision, backed by her *overwhelmingly *zealous agreement, that I should, at least temporarily, perform for her in your stead.

There is no need to thank me.  Friends make sacrifices for each other and this is something she and I have decided to do because we care about you and want the best for you.  And we both want you to experience the fulfillment of a complete relationship regardless of whether your physical condition is such that you can provide that or not.

I have added one caveat. I will be wearing my Russell Wilson jersey but she says she wants to leave it up to you as to whether she should wear a Peyton Manning or Dan Marino jersey.  She would appreciate a rapid response.  For some unknown reason, while I am quite content to patiently craft the scenario, she seems quite eager to accelerate the timetable.  Regardless we both hope you receive this gesture as an act of love and respect much like you have shown me.

Sincerely

-The Phantom.


----------



## Papageorgio

BluePhantom said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I appreciate your truthfulness and wisdom.  There is a benefit to me in the future that if I ever experience erectile dysfunction I can call on my friend TGG, who is apparently quite experienced in the condition, to advise me.   I sincerely appreciate your willingness to share
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uh huh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know TGG I appreciate completely your willingness to share your advice regarding erectile dysfunction. It is an issue sensitive to men and I applaud you for having the courage to share your experiences.  I feel secure in the knowledge that if and when the day comes that I experience an inability to perform that I will have you to provide me with mentorship as i value the voice of experience in all matters. Your generosity however, certainly deserves a reward.  As you are clearly knowledgeable and experienced about the the condition of erectile dysfunction it occurs to me that your wife may be experiencing some difficulties of her own in coping with your condition.  I would consider it my honor and a service to you to act as your champion in order to ensure that your wife experiences the absolute minimum inconvenience in regards to your condition.  Believe me when I say _*the pleasure would be all mine*_. As I anticipate you may be embarrassed by such a scenario I have taken it upon myself to contact your wife directly so as to spare you from any emotional or psychological after effects.  She is in agreement that we both care about you, we both respect you, and we both want the best for you.  Hence our decision, backed by her *overwhelmingly *zealous agreement, that I should, at least temporarily, perform for her in your stead.
> 
> There is no need to thank me.  Friends make sacrifices for each other and this is something she and I have decided to do because we care about you and want the best for you.  And we both want you to experience the fulfillment of a complete relationship regardless of whether your physical condition is such that you can provide that or not.
> 
> I have added one caveat. I will be wearing my Russell Wilson jersey but she says she wants to leave it up to you as to whether she should wear a Peyton Manning or Dan Marino jersey.  She would appreciate a rapid response.  For some unknown reason, while I am quite content to patiently craft the scenario, she seems quite eager to accelerate the timetable.  Regardless we both hope you receive this gesture as an act of love and respect much like you have shown me.
> 
> Sincerely
> 
> -The Phantom.
Click to expand...


A shirt with someone else's name on it, and you actually wear it. Never understood the phenomenon of this. Why do you wear them?


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

BluePhantom said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I appreciate your truthfulness and wisdom.  There is a benefit to me in the future that if I ever experience erectile dysfunction I can call on my friend TGG, who is apparently quite experienced in the condition, to advise me.   I sincerely appreciate your willingness to share
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uh huh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know TGG I appreciate completely your willingness to share your advice regarding erectile dysfunction. It is an issue sensitive to men and I applaud you for having the courage to share your experiences.  I feel secure in the knowledge that if and when the day comes that I experience an inability to perform that I will have you to provide me with mentorship as i value the voice of experience in all matters. Your generosity however, certainly deserves a reward.  As you are clearly knowledgeable and experienced about the the condition of erectile dysfunction it occurs to me that your wife may be experiencing some difficulties of her own in coping with your condition.  I would consider it my honor and a service to you to act as your champion in order to ensure that your wife experiences the absolute minimum inconvenience in regards to your condition.  Believe me when I say _*the pleasure would be all mine*_. As I anticipate you may be embarrassed by such a scenario I have taken it upon myself to contact your wife directly so as to spare you from any emotional or psychological after effects.  She is in agreement that we both care about you, we both respect you, and we both want the best for you.  Hence our decision, backed by her *overwhelmingly *zealous agreement, that I should, at least temporarily, perform for her in your stead.
> 
> There is no need to thank me.  Friends make sacrifices for each other and this is something she and I have decided to do because we care about you and want the best for you.  And we both want you to experience the fulfillment of a complete relationship regardless of whether your physical condition is such that you can provide that or not.
> 
> I have added one caveat. I will be wearing my Russell Wilson jersey but she says she wants to leave it up to you as to whether she should wear a Peyton Manning or Dan Marino jersey.  She would appreciate a rapid response.  For some unknown reason, while I am quite content to patiently craft the scenario, she seems quite eager to accelerate the timetable.  Regardless we both hope you receive this gesture as an act of love and respect much like you have shown me.
> 
> Sincerely
> 
> -The Phantom.
Click to expand...


I have plenty of problems but erectile dysfunction is not one of them. Knock on wood. But way to belabor an already horrid comic routine after getting panned by the critic. I can see why you would get along with Huggy so fabulously, extreme homerism aside.


----------



## Papageorgio

TheGreatGatsby said:


> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I appreciate your truthfulness and wisdom.  There is a benefit to me in the future that if I ever experience erectile dysfunction I can call on my friend TGG, who is apparently quite experienced in the condition, to advise me.   I sincerely appreciate your willingness to share
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uh huh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know TGG I appreciate completely your willingness to share your advice regarding erectile dysfunction. It is an issue sensitive to men and I applaud you for having the courage to share your experiences.  I feel secure in the knowledge that if and when the day comes that I experience an inability to perform that I will have you to provide me with mentorship as i value the voice of experience in all matters. Your generosity however, certainly deserves a reward.  As you are clearly knowledgeable and experienced about the the condition of erectile dysfunction it occurs to me that your wife may be experiencing some difficulties of her own in coping with your condition.  I would consider it my honor and a service to you to act as your champion in order to ensure that your wife experiences the absolute minimum inconvenience in regards to your condition.  Believe me when I say _*the pleasure would be all mine*_. As I anticipate you may be embarrassed by such a scenario I have taken it upon myself to contact your wife directly so as to spare you from any emotional or psychological after effects.  She is in agreement that we both care about you, we both respect you, and we both want the best for you.  Hence our decision, backed by her *overwhelmingly *zealous agreement, that I should, at least temporarily, perform for her in your stead.
> 
> There is no need to thank me.  Friends make sacrifices for each other and this is something she and I have decided to do because we care about you and want the best for you.  And we both want you to experience the fulfillment of a complete relationship regardless of whether your physical condition is such that you can provide that or not.
> 
> I have added one caveat. I will be wearing my Russell Wilson jersey but she says she wants to leave it up to you as to whether she should wear a Peyton Manning or Dan Marino jersey.  She would appreciate a rapid response.  For some unknown reason, while I am quite content to patiently craft the scenario, she seems quite eager to accelerate the timetable.  Regardless we both hope you receive this gesture as an act of love and respect much like you have shown me.
> 
> Sincerely
> 
> -The Phantom.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have plenty of problems but erectile dysfunction is not one of them. *Knock on wood*. But way to belabor an already horrid comic routine after getting panned by the critic. I can see why you would get along with Huggy so fabulously, extreme homerism aside.
Click to expand...


Now that is funny.


----------



## rightwinger

Papageorgio said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle fans have become the new New England fans. They actually have convinced themselves that Russell fucking Wilson is better than Dan Marino!
> 
> 
> 
> Im a Wilson fan but I find him more comparable to this generations tom brady than I do with Marino.Marion had to carry the load on his shoulders and was a choker in regular season games,brady is neither of those two and neither is Wilson.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of chokers.
> 
> Most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history is Peyton Manning, second is Dan Marino. The most game winning drives in the NFL is Peyton Manning and Dan Marino with 51 each.
Click to expand...

 
Mannings problem is that he has failed to do it in a big game. A game with  2 min left and your team needing a TD. Unitas did it, Montana did it, Starr did it, Elway did it, his brother did it in the SB twice.
Peyton does not have "The Drive" on his resume


----------



## Toro

HUGGY said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> The StupidGatsby  would go to an orphanage and find the cryingest baby and adopt it just so when he travels by air he has left his mark.
> 
> Nice work. Now let's see if you can undo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a belabored analogy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And still it holds no candle to what you did to this thread.
> 
> Thanks.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I don't think gasbag did anything to this thread. It went into surreal bizarro world by about the fourth post, which is to be expected given the author.


----------



## Toro

rightwinger said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle fans have become the new New England fans. They actually have convinced themselves that Russell fucking Wilson is better than Dan Marino!
> 
> 
> 
> Im a Wilson fan but I find him more comparable to this generations tom brady than I do with Marino.Marion had to carry the load on his shoulders and was a choker in regular season games,brady is neither of those two and neither is Wilson.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of chokers.
> 
> Most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history is Peyton Manning, second is Dan Marino. The most game winning drives in the NFL is Peyton Manning and Dan Marino with 51 each.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mannings problem is that he has failed to do it in a big game. A game with  2 min left and your team needing a TD. Unitas did it, Montana did it, Starr did it, Elway did it, his brother did it in the SB twice.
> Peyton does not have "The Drive" on his resume
Click to expand...


He did bring his team back from 21-3 down against NE to win the AFC Championship Game, the biggest deficit ever overcome in a championship game iirc.


----------



## rightwinger

Toro said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle fans have become the new New England fans. They actually have convinced themselves that Russell fucking Wilson is better than Dan Marino!
> 
> 
> 
> Im a Wilson fan but I find him more comparable to this generations tom brady than I do with Marino.Marion had to carry the load on his shoulders and was a choker in regular season games,brady is neither of those two and neither is Wilson.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of chokers.
> 
> Most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history is Peyton Manning, second is Dan Marino. The most game winning drives in the NFL is Peyton Manning and Dan Marino with 51 each.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mannings problem is that he has failed to do it in a big game. A game with  2 min left and your team needing a TD. Unitas did it, Montana did it, Starr did it, Elway did it, his brother did it in the SB twice.
> Peyton does not have "The Drive" on his resume
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He did bring his team back from 21-3 down against NE to win the AFC Championship Game, the biggest deficit ever overcome in a championship game iirc.
Click to expand...

 
I agree that is Mannings one shining moment in the playoffs

But for the most part, his legacy has been to lose games that he was favored to win. Unlike some QBs that never had a great team, Manning tended to have teams that were favored to win the championship and came up short in the playoffs


----------



## LA RAM FAN

TheGreatGatsby said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> i dont care if they go 0 and 16 and get blown out in every game.screw the winning.i just want them back,the winning is a just a bonus for me.I hope to be there for opening day sept 2015 but that will be a tough ticket to get as well the first  preseason game so i will probably just go to the dodgers home opener this year so I can  celebrate with fans there this year.
> 
> how bout you,you plan on being a season ticket holder there by chance?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, Georgia what's her face pulled a 'Major League' and it was totally obvious. She made the team suck to get the attendance low to get out of the lease and then she bailed because she was 'homesick.' A part of me was happy when she died.
> 
> A Dodger season ticket holder? Nah, I hate the Dodgers.
> 
> And I don't know if I'd convert back to being a Rams fan if they moved back; and they won't btw. Their owner is just leveraging a move for a new stadium.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I forgot to mention that Georgia had the audacity to blame the fans on her way out. It's one thing to do what she did to get the team out. But her unfounded shot was what made me realize that that lady was unconsciousable.
Click to expand...


Im glad you now understand that leverage thing is a thing of the past and  is an absurd belief to have on thinking the Rams wont be back this year after I laid out those facts for you..

unlike antiquity troll who thanked you,glad to see that YOU can accept it that they  are moving back.finding people around here like that is like looking for a needle in the haystack.

Finding someone at THIS site unlike other message boards I go where sports fans are far more knowledgeblee thank god,,its rare to find around these parts at this site in the sports section someone who understands this.its like talking to a brick wall to the majority of the posters around here.

a few have had pm conversations with me back in august saying I would  have the last laugh on them come feb15th which I ALREADY am having the last laugh on them  proving they lied in the past when they have recently come on and said they never said they were not coming back watching them either change the subject or not come back when I called them out on their lies after I reposted their original statements.

Like I said,they must have forgot this place keeps records of your past posts.

But yeah,I am glad to see as well that you have not fallen for the lies the media has spread over the years that LA is not a football town that they never supported the rams there.

Very few people around these parts at this site HAVENT fallen for that myth that LA is not an NFL football town.

Now that would be true about the raiders if they were talking about them.Only the thugs for the most part,embraced them there in LA.but thats not true about the Rams at all.

I think that evil bitch had the media in her pocket and she was able to get them to spread those lies for her which is why so many people have that misconception that LA is not a football town and never supported the Rams which is not true at all.

cause like you said,it wasnt till the early 90's when the bitch purposely dismantled the team trading away greats eric dickerson,toby harrah,kevin greene and others so they would start losing all their games so she could get them to stop showing up so she could get her wish to move them out of LA to her home town of st louis,that fans stopped supporting them.

you try and explain to that to people around here though and it just goes through one ear and out the other with them, though.its like talking to a brick wall.they dont get it. Its only the people out there in california like you who understand what I am talking about so its a refreashing change to actually talk to someone here who gets all this.I didnt think they existed.

this is a very interesting video on an interview LA resident Al Michaels gave on the myth that LA never supported the Rams.Michales broadcast many Rams games out there so he is a good authority on it.


here is further proof that Michaels indeed knows what he is talking about and speaks the truth.you can see from these highlights of Rams games played in LA that they did indeed pack the houses till the bitch purposely destroyed the team so she could get what she wanted,people stop showing up so she could move the team.

take a real quick look at these real short videos here below of Rams highlights of games played in LA.



Looks like pretty packed houses to me. and those two games were not even against division rivals or long time rivalrys either.

so much for the myth they did not support them in LA.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

btw you mentioned fuckface the bitch,yeah I could not have put it any better than that.Had her husband still be alive today,they would still be in LA and never would have left.

I assume you know that she had him murdered so she could get control of the team and move them to her hometown right?  He had it all set up for his son to inherit the team drawing up a will before he died and she used her slick ways to take that from him and get complete control of it herself.

Thank god she is dead now.may she burn in hell.

I wish I knew where her grave was because I don't feel one bit bad about saying this at all  that I would enjoy taking a piss on it as thousands of others would if not millions.
the freaking murderer.

I am so happy she is dead now and thank god stan is the owner because its well known in NFL circles he WANTS to move the team to LA.that he WANTS to be there.and nothing can stop him.Not idiot dean spanos or roger goddel.all the owners other than spanos want the move and that's all that matters. LA RAMS 2015 baby.


read this article here,it details how the bitch had her husband murdered.
she obviously had rich and powerful connections to people in high power in the government the fact there was never any kind of a serious investigation by the police authorities into his death.just like politicians commit crimes everyday we cant get away with,she did the exact same thing.

Rosenbloom, an accomplished swimmer, drowned under mysterious circumstances in 1979 leaving the team to Georgia. Rumors persist to this day that the former showgirl had her husband bumped off. In the premier episode of the PBS series Frontline, several mobsters claim his legs were held to cause his drowning. Before he died, Rosenbloom had made it clear that his son and the Rams GM would take over the team in the event of his death. That of course didn't happen

Thunder Matt s Saloon War Criminal Georgia Frontiere


----------



## Papageorgio

9/11 inside job said:


> btw you mentioned fuckface the bitch,yeah I could not have put it any better than that.Had her husband still be alive today,they would still be in LA and never would have left.
> 
> I assume you know that she had him murdered so she could get control of the team and move them to her hometown right?  He had it all set up for his son to inherit the team drawing up a will before he died and she used her slick ways to take that from him and get complete control of it herself.
> 
> Thank god she is dead now.may she burn in hell.
> 
> I wish I knew where her grave was because I don't feel one bit bad about saying this at all  that I would enjoy taking a piss on it as thousands of others would if not millions.
> the freaking murderer.
> 
> I am so happy she is dead now and thank god stan is the owner because its well known in NFL circles he WANTS to move the team to LA.that he WANTS to be there.and nothing can stop him.Not idiot dean spanos or roger goddel.all the owners other than spanos want the move and that's all that matters. LA RAMS 2015 baby.
> 
> 
> read this article here,it details how the bitch had her husband murdered.
> she obviously had rich and powerful connections to people in high power in the government the fact there was never any kind of a serious investigation by the police authorities into his death.just like politicians commit crimes everyday we cant get away with,she did the exact same thing.



I know you are excited about the Rams however can you please keep stay on topic, there is a whole thread devoted to the Rams.


----------



## antiquity

Papageorgio said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> btw you mentioned fuckface the bitch,yeah I could not have put it any better than that.Had her husband still be alive today,they would still be in LA and never would have left.
> 
> I assume you know that she had him murdered so she could get control of the team and move them to her hometown right?  He had it all set up for his son to inherit the team drawing up a will before he died and she used her slick ways to take that from him and get complete control of it herself.
> 
> Thank god she is dead now.may she burn in hell.
> 
> I wish I knew where her grave was because I don't feel one bit bad about saying this at all  that I would enjoy taking a piss on it as thousands of others would if not millions.
> the freaking murderer.
> 
> I am so happy she is dead now and thank god stan is the owner because its well known in NFL circles he WANTS to move the team to LA.that he WANTS to be there.and nothing can stop him.Not idiot dean spanos or roger goddel.all the owners other than spanos want the move and that's all that matters. LA RAMS 2015 baby.
> 
> 
> read this article here,it details how the bitch had her husband murdered.
> she obviously had rich and powerful connections to people in high power in the government the fact there was never any kind of a serious investigation by the police authorities into his death.just like politicians commit crimes everyday we cant get away with,she did the exact same thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know you are excited about the Rams however can you please keep stay on topic, there is a whole thread devoted to the Rams.
Click to expand...


911 get off topic a lot....He is the only person that waste 10K words and still say nothing note worthy.


----------



## rightwinger

9/11 inside job said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> i dont care if they go 0 and 16 and get blown out in every game.screw the winning.i just want them back,the winning is a just a bonus for me.I hope to be there for opening day sept 2015 but that will be a tough ticket to get as well the first  preseason game so i will probably just go to the dodgers home opener this year so I can  celebrate with fans there this year.
> 
> how bout you,you plan on being a season ticket holder there by chance?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, Georgia what's her face pulled a 'Major League' and it was totally obvious. She made the team suck to get the attendance low to get out of the lease and then she bailed because she was 'homesick.' A part of me was happy when she died.
> 
> A Dodger season ticket holder? Nah, I hate the Dodgers.
> 
> And I don't know if I'd convert back to being a Rams fan if they moved back; and they won't btw. Their owner is just leveraging a move for a new stadium.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I forgot to mention that Georgia had the audacity to blame the fans on her way out. It's one thing to do what she did to get the team out. But her unfounded shot was what made me realize that that lady was unconsciousable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Im glad you now understand that leverage thing is a thing of the past and  is an absurd belief to have on thinking the Rams wont be back this year after I laid out those facts for you..
> 
> unlike antiquity troll who thanked you,glad to see that YOU can accept it that they  are moving back.finding people around here like that is like looking for a needle in the haystack.
> 
> Finding someone at THIS site unlike other message boards I go where sports fans are far more knowledgeblee thank god,,its rare to find around these parts at this site in the sports section someone who understands this.its like talking to a brick wall to the majority of the posters around here.
> 
> a few have had pm conversations with me back in august saying I would  have the last laugh on them come feb15th which I ALREADY am having the last laugh on them  proving they lied in the past when they have recently come on and said they never said they were not coming back watching them either change the subject or not come back when I called them out on their lies after I reposted their original statements.
> 
> Like I said,they must have forgot this place keeps records of your past posts.
> 
> But yeah,I am glad to see as well that you have not fallen for the lies the media has spread over the years that LA is not a football town that they never supported the rams there.
> 
> Very few people around these parts at this site HAVENT fallen for that myth that LA is not an NFL football town.
> 
> Now that would be true about the raiders if they were talking about them.Only the thugs for the most part,embraced them there in LA.but thats not true about the Rams at all.
> 
> I think that evil bitch had the media in her pocket and she was able to get them to spread those lies for her which is why so many people have that misconception that LA is not a football town and never supported the Rams which is not true at all.
> 
> cause like you said,it wasnt till the early 90's when the bitch purposely dismantled the team trading away greats eric dickerson,toby harrah,kevin greene and others so they would start losing all their games so she could get them to stop showing up so she could get her wish to move them out of LA to her home town of st louis,that fans stopped supporting them.
> 
> you try and explain to that to people around here though and it just goes through one ear and out the other with them, though.its like talking to a brick wall.they dont get it. Its only the people out there in california like you who understand what I am talking about so its a refreashing change to actually talk to someone here who gets all this.I didnt think they existed.
> 
> this is a very interesting video on an interview LA resident Al Michaels gave on the myth that LA never supported the Rams.Michales broadcast many Rams games out there so he is a good authority on it.
> 
> 
> here is further proof that Michaels indeed knows what he is talking about and speaks the truth.you can see from these highlights of Rams games played in LA that they did indeed pack the houses till the bitch purposely destroyed the team so she could get what she wanted,people stop showing up so she could move the team.
> 
> take a real quick look at these real short videos here below of Rams highlights of games played in LA.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like pretty packed houses to me. and those two games were not even against division rivals or long time rivalrys either.
> 
> so much for the myth they did not support them in LA.
Click to expand...

 
Neither Peyton Manning nor Russell Wilson play for the Rams


----------



## Papageorgio

rightwinger said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> i dont care if they go 0 and 16 and get blown out in every game.screw the winning.i just want them back,the winning is a just a bonus for me.I hope to be there for opening day sept 2015 but that will be a tough ticket to get as well the first  preseason game so i will probably just go to the dodgers home opener this year so I can  celebrate with fans there this year.
> 
> how bout you,you plan on being a season ticket holder there by chance?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, Georgia what's her face pulled a 'Major League' and it was totally obvious. She made the team suck to get the attendance low to get out of the lease and then she bailed because she was 'homesick.' A part of me was happy when she died.
> 
> A Dodger season ticket holder? Nah, I hate the Dodgers.
> 
> And I don't know if I'd convert back to being a Rams fan if they moved back; and they won't btw. Their owner is just leveraging a move for a new stadium.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I forgot to mention that Georgia had the audacity to blame the fans on her way out. It's one thing to do what she did to get the team out. But her unfounded shot was what made me realize that that lady was unconsciousable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Im glad you now understand that leverage thing is a thing of the past and  is an absurd belief to have on thinking the Rams wont be back this year after I laid out those facts for you..
> 
> unlike antiquity troll who thanked you,glad to see that YOU can accept it that they  are moving back.finding people around here like that is like looking for a needle in the haystack.
> 
> Finding someone at THIS site unlike other message boards I go where sports fans are far more knowledgeblee thank god,,its rare to find around these parts at this site in the sports section someone who understands this.its like talking to a brick wall to the majority of the posters around here.
> 
> a few have had pm conversations with me back in august saying I would  have the last laugh on them come feb15th which I ALREADY am having the last laugh on them  proving they lied in the past when they have recently come on and said they never said they were not coming back watching them either change the subject or not come back when I called them out on their lies after I reposted their original statements.
> 
> Like I said,they must have forgot this place keeps records of your past posts.
> 
> But yeah,I am glad to see as well that you have not fallen for the lies the media has spread over the years that LA is not a football town that they never supported the rams there.
> 
> Very few people around these parts at this site HAVENT fallen for that myth that LA is not an NFL football town.
> 
> Now that would be true about the raiders if they were talking about them.Only the thugs for the most part,embraced them there in LA.but thats not true about the Rams at all.
> 
> I think that evil bitch had the media in her pocket and she was able to get them to spread those lies for her which is why so many people have that misconception that LA is not a football town and never supported the Rams which is not true at all.
> 
> cause like you said,it wasnt till the early 90's when the bitch purposely dismantled the team trading away greats eric dickerson,toby harrah,kevin greene and others so they would start losing all their games so she could get them to stop showing up so she could get her wish to move them out of LA to her home town of st louis,that fans stopped supporting them.
> 
> you try and explain to that to people around here though and it just goes through one ear and out the other with them, though.its like talking to a brick wall.they dont get it. Its only the people out there in california like you who understand what I am talking about so its a refreashing change to actually talk to someone here who gets all this.I didnt think they existed.
> 
> this is a very interesting video on an interview LA resident Al Michaels gave on the myth that LA never supported the Rams.Michales broadcast many Rams games out there so he is a good authority on it.
> 
> 
> here is further proof that Michaels indeed knows what he is talking about and speaks the truth.you can see from these highlights of Rams games played in LA that they did indeed pack the houses till the bitch purposely destroyed the team so she could get what she wanted,people stop showing up so she could move the team.
> 
> take a real quick look at these real short videos here below of Rams highlights of games played in LA.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like pretty packed houses to me. and those two games were not even against division rivals or long time rivalrys either.
> 
> so much for the myth they did not support them in LA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither Peyton Manning nor Russell Wilson play for the Rams
Click to expand...


Yes but if the Rams were in LA, they would both be with the Rams!


----------



## LA RAM FAN

two farts in a row from two trolls.pooper and antiquity,you should get a room together.


----------



## Papageorgio

9/11 inside job said:


> two farts in a row from two trolls.pooper and antiquity,you should get a room together.


Poor bitch, panties in a knot? 

I know, I know, someone farted!  still the old jokes by the boards biggest joke?


----------



## LA RAM FAN

so much for the fantasy of trolls like agent right winger and non paid troll antiquitys insistance the rams are not coming back to LA.

As i have said a million times just to watch trolls like them ignore it,not only is it the LA media and other national media news saying it,but NOW it is even the SAINT LOUIS media THEMSELVES saying it as well.even THEY dont think they will be in saint louis this year.

the st louis media  a year ago was saying the crap that people like huggy were to me that i was desperate and not being rational,living in a fantasy.

well they ARENT saying that anymore,even THEY have come to grips with reality they are losing the rams and are now admitting it.

cant be denied anymore you saint louis trolls here.

waits to watch the backpeddling that will happen.

For one thing,the Rams are not worthy of saving under the current ownership.
St. Louis going out of the NFL business - Claibs Call - Mobile Adv



eat shit saint louis idiot apologists here.

cool to see there are SOME intelligent posters here in the sports section at USMB such as BP and TGG who can accept facts and admit when they have been proven wrong.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Lets see,stan who has the legal right to move to LA this year and play in the rose bowl while waiting for  the new stadium is built in 3 years is going to want to go back to st louis where the crowds there that turn out are at around 35,000,second lowest in the league after jacksonville, with only about 10,000 being rams fans having the majority be from the opposing team EVERY SUNDAY,he is going to go back to that dump and PRAY they come up with a satisfying stadium plan which he is not happy with what they have come up with somehow PRAYING bankrupt st louis who is in millions of debt currently trying to pay off their CURRENT stadium,they cant fund a new stadium,

stan is going to go back to that and be happy with that instead of a stadium where he will have a passionate fan base that will embrace him and his value of his franchise and TRIPLE.he is going to pass up ALL OF THAT for that dump and losing situation going on in saint louis this year according to trolls like antiquity and rightwinger.

you all should start a comedy club.you guys kills me,rolls out of chair laughing.


----------



## Papageorgio

rightwinger said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle fans have become the new New England fans. They actually have convinced themselves that Russell fucking Wilson is better than Dan Marino!
> 
> 
> 
> Im a Wilson fan but I find him more comparable to this generations tom brady than I do with Marino.Marion had to carry the load on his shoulders and was a choker in regular season games,brady is neither of those two and neither is Wilson.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of chokers.
> 
> Most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history is Peyton Manning, second is Dan Marino. The most game winning drives in the NFL is Peyton Manning and Dan Marino with 51 each.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mannings problem is that he has failed to do it in a big game. A game with  2 min left and your team needing a TD. Unitas did it, Montana did it, Starr did it, Elway did it, his brother did it in the SB twice.
> Peyton does not have "The Drive" on his resume
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He did bring his team back from 21-3 down against NE to win the AFC Championship Game, the biggest deficit ever overcome in a championship game iirc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree that is Mannings one shining moment in the playoffs
> 
> But for the most part, his legacy has been to lose games that he was favored to win. Unlike some QBs that never had a great team, Manning tended to have teams that were favored to win the championship and came up short in the playoffs
Click to expand...


He never had a great defense, nor did he have a great offensive line, he carried the team much of the time by the time 17-18 games were in, he tired.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

rightwinger said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle fans have become the new New England fans. They actually have convinced themselves that Russell fucking Wilson is better than Dan Marino!
> 
> 
> 
> Im a Wilson fan but I find him more comparable to this generations tom brady than I do with Marino.Marion had to carry the load on his shoulders and was a choker in regular season games,brady is neither of those two and neither is Wilson.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of chokers.
> 
> Most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history is Peyton Manning, second is Dan Marino. The most game winning drives in the NFL is Peyton Manning and Dan Marino with 51 each.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mannings problem is that he has failed to do it in a big game. A game with  2 min left and your team needing a TD. Unitas did it, Montana did it, Starr did it, Elway did it, his brother did it in the SB twice.
> Peyton does not have "The Drive" on his resume
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He did bring his team back from 21-3 down against NE to win the AFC Championship Game, the biggest deficit ever overcome in a championship game iirc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree that is Mannings one shining moment in the playoffs
> 
> But for the most part, his legacy has been to lose games that he was favored to win. Unlike some QBs that never had a great team, Manning tended to have teams that were favored to win the championship and came up short in the playoffs
Click to expand...


Legacy is superficial media talk. They love to count rings or what not as be alls. I do agree though, that Manning would have to lose some points on his lack of big game performances. That's probably a big part of why he didn't make my Mt. Rushmore in the other thread. But the dude is a great talent. He's more talented than Brady. But for whatever reasons, Brady had more success. I believe it's a myriad of factors.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

9/11 inside job said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> i dont care if they go 0 and 16 and get blown out in every game.screw the winning.i just want them back,the winning is a just a bonus for me.I hope to be there for opening day sept 2015 but that will be a tough ticket to get as well the first  preseason game so i will probably just go to the dodgers home opener this year so I can  celebrate with fans there this year.
> 
> how bout you,you plan on being a season ticket holder there by chance?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, Georgia what's her face pulled a 'Major League' and it was totally obvious. She made the team suck to get the attendance low to get out of the lease and then she bailed because she was 'homesick.' A part of me was happy when she died.
> 
> A Dodger season ticket holder? Nah, I hate the Dodgers.
> 
> And I don't know if I'd convert back to being a Rams fan if they moved back; and they won't btw. Their owner is just leveraging a move for a new stadium.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I forgot to mention that Georgia had the audacity to blame the fans on her way out. It's one thing to do what she did to get the team out. But her unfounded shot was what made me realize that that lady was unconsciousable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Im glad you now understand that leverage thing is a thing of the past and  is an absurd belief to have on thinking the Rams wont be back this year after I laid out those facts for you..
> 
> unlike antiquity troll who thanked you,glad to see that YOU can accept it that they  are moving back.finding people around here like that is like looking for a needle in the haystack.
> 
> Finding someone at THIS site unlike other message boards I go where sports fans are far more knowledgeblee thank god,,its rare to find around these parts at this site in the sports section someone who understands this.its like talking to a brick wall to the majority of the posters around here.
> 
> a few have had pm conversations with me back in august saying I would  have the last laugh on them come feb15th which I ALREADY am having the last laugh on them  proving they lied in the past when they have recently come on and said they never said they were not coming back watching them either change the subject or not come back when I called them out on their lies after I reposted their original statements.
> 
> Like I said,they must have forgot this place keeps records of your past posts.
> 
> But yeah,I am glad to see as well that you have not fallen for the lies the media has spread over the years that LA is not a football town that they never supported the rams there.
> 
> Very few people around these parts at this site HAVENT fallen for that myth that LA is not an NFL football town.
> 
> Now that would be true about the raiders if they were talking about them.Only the thugs for the most part,embraced them there in LA.but thats not true about the Rams at all.
> 
> I think that evil bitch had the media in her pocket and she was able to get them to spread those lies for her which is why so many people have that misconception that LA is not a football town and never supported the Rams which is not true at all.
> 
> cause like you said,it wasnt till the early 90's when the bitch purposely dismantled the team trading away greats eric dickerson,toby harrah,kevin greene and others so they would start losing all their games so she could get them to stop showing up so she could get her wish to move them out of LA to her home town of st louis,that fans stopped supporting them.
> 
> you try and explain to that to people around here though and it just goes through one ear and out the other with them, though.its like talking to a brick wall.they dont get it. Its only the people out there in california like you who understand what I am talking about so its a refreashing change to actually talk to someone here who gets all this.I didnt think they existed.
> 
> this is a very interesting video on an interview LA resident Al Michaels gave on the myth that LA never supported the Rams.Michales broadcast many Rams games out there so he is a good authority on it.
> 
> 
> here is further proof that Michaels indeed knows what he is talking about and speaks the truth.you can see from these highlights of Rams games played in LA that they did indeed pack the houses till the bitch purposely destroyed the team so she could get what she wanted,people stop showing up so she could move the team.
> 
> take a real quick look at these real short videos here below of Rams highlights of games played in LA.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like pretty packed houses to me. and those two games were not even against division rivals or long time rivalrys either.
> 
> so much for the myth they did not support them in LA.
Click to expand...


The NFL team to LA talk is white noise. I drown it out. The NFL uses LA like a pawn. They want other cities to know that if they don't get what they want, then it's curtains. Fuck the NFL.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

TheGreatGatsby said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> i dont care if they go 0 and 16 and get blown out in every game.screw the winning.i just want them back,the winning is a just a bonus for me.I hope to be there for opening day sept 2015 but that will be a tough ticket to get as well the first  preseason game so i will probably just go to the dodgers home opener this year so I can  celebrate with fans there this year.
> 
> how bout you,you plan on being a season ticket holder there by chance?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, Georgia what's her face pulled a 'Major League' and it was totally obvious. She made the team suck to get the attendance low to get out of the lease and then she bailed because she was 'homesick.' A part of me was happy when she died.
> 
> A Dodger season ticket holder? Nah, I hate the Dodgers.
> 
> And I don't know if I'd convert back to being a Rams fan if they moved back; and they won't btw. Their owner is just leveraging a move for a new stadium.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I forgot to mention that Georgia had the audacity to blame the fans on her way out. It's one thing to do what she did to get the team out. But her unfounded shot was what made me realize that that lady was unconsciousable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Im glad you now understand that leverage thing is a thing of the past and  is an absurd belief to have on thinking the Rams wont be back this year after I laid out those facts for you..
> 
> unlike antiquity troll who thanked you,glad to see that YOU can accept it that they  are moving back.finding people around here like that is like looking for a needle in the haystack.
> 
> Finding someone at THIS site unlike other message boards I go where sports fans are far more knowledgeblee thank god,,its rare to find around these parts at this site in the sports section someone who understands this.its like talking to a brick wall to the majority of the posters around here.
> 
> a few have had pm conversations with me back in august saying I would  have the last laugh on them come feb15th which I ALREADY am having the last laugh on them  proving they lied in the past when they have recently come on and said they never said they were not coming back watching them either change the subject or not come back when I called them out on their lies after I reposted their original statements.
> 
> Like I said,they must have forgot this place keeps records of your past posts.
> 
> But yeah,I am glad to see as well that you have not fallen for the lies the media has spread over the years that LA is not a football town that they never supported the rams there.
> 
> Very few people around these parts at this site HAVENT fallen for that myth that LA is not an NFL football town.
> 
> Now that would be true about the raiders if they were talking about them.Only the thugs for the most part,embraced them there in LA.but thats not true about the Rams at all.
> 
> I think that evil bitch had the media in her pocket and she was able to get them to spread those lies for her which is why so many people have that misconception that LA is not a football town and never supported the Rams which is not true at all.
> 
> cause like you said,it wasnt till the early 90's when the bitch purposely dismantled the team trading away greats eric dickerson,toby harrah,kevin greene and others so they would start losing all their games so she could get them to stop showing up so she could get her wish to move them out of LA to her home town of st louis,that fans stopped supporting them.
> 
> you try and explain to that to people around here though and it just goes through one ear and out the other with them, though.its like talking to a brick wall.they dont get it. Its only the people out there in california like you who understand what I am talking about so its a refreashing change to actually talk to someone here who gets all this.I didnt think they existed.
> 
> this is a very interesting video on an interview LA resident Al Michaels gave on the myth that LA never supported the Rams.Michales broadcast many Rams games out there so he is a good authority on it.
> 
> 
> here is further proof that Michaels indeed knows what he is talking about and speaks the truth.you can see from these highlights of Rams games played in LA that they did indeed pack the houses till the bitch purposely destroyed the team so she could get what she wanted,people stop showing up so she could move the team.
> 
> take a real quick look at these real short videos here below of Rams highlights of games played in LA.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like pretty packed houses to me. and those two games were not even against division rivals or long time rivalrys either.
> 
> so much for the myth they did not support them in LA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The NFL team to LA talk is white noise. I drown it out. The NFL uses LA like a pawn. They want other cities to know that if they don't get what they want, then it's curtains. Fuck the NFL.
Click to expand...


Well the NFL IS a joke no doubt.No question about that.thanks to them letting people like Beli- CHEAT still stay in the game for example and allowing teams to move like they have over the years,and playing in dome stadiums,they have turned it into a joke because of that so yeah,fuck the NFL.i agree.

But if you are smoking crack like so many others here are who actually believe the Rams are staying in st louis this year despite all the facts i listed that took you to school just then,something that seems to be the delusion of practically everyone around here,if you are ONE of those deluded people who still believe that such as trolls  antiquity and rightwinger,then answer this ONE question THEY refused to answer back then when they insisted they are staying in st louis this year.

what are YOU going to say come february 15th when you are proven wrong by me and it becomes offiical that  the rams announce they are moving back to LA this year and march 1st when the owners overwhelmingly vote in favor of it?

I could not get an answer from trolls like rightwinger and antiquity and SEVERAL others back then when i asked them that question,they just changed the subject.are you going to do the same with me and not give me and answer like those idiots refused to do?

i am guessing yes since like them,you have refused to look at the facts.a common trait with USMB posters around here. I've only encountered a handful that i talk to by pm who actually take the  time to look at the facts and are objective about it for some reason.

waits for answer.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

9/11 inside job said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> i dont care if they go 0 and 16 and get blown out in every game.screw the winning.i just want them back,the winning is a just a bonus for me.I hope to be there for opening day sept 2015 but that will be a tough ticket to get as well the first  preseason game so i will probably just go to the dodgers home opener this year so I can  celebrate with fans there this year.
> 
> how bout you,you plan on being a season ticket holder there by chance?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, Georgia what's her face pulled a 'Major League' and it was totally obvious. She made the team suck to get the attendance low to get out of the lease and then she bailed because she was 'homesick.' A part of me was happy when she died.
> 
> A Dodger season ticket holder? Nah, I hate the Dodgers.
> 
> And I don't know if I'd convert back to being a Rams fan if they moved back; and they won't btw. Their owner is just leveraging a move for a new stadium.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I forgot to mention that Georgia had the audacity to blame the fans on her way out. It's one thing to do what she did to get the team out. But her unfounded shot was what made me realize that that lady was unconsciousable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Im glad you now understand that leverage thing is a thing of the past and  is an absurd belief to have on thinking the Rams wont be back this year after I laid out those facts for you..
> 
> unlike antiquity troll who thanked you,glad to see that YOU can accept it that they  are moving back.finding people around here like that is like looking for a needle in the haystack.
> 
> Finding someone at THIS site unlike other message boards I go where sports fans are far more knowledgeblee thank god,,its rare to find around these parts at this site in the sports section someone who understands this.its like talking to a brick wall to the majority of the posters around here.
> 
> a few have had pm conversations with me back in august saying I would  have the last laugh on them come feb15th which I ALREADY am having the last laugh on them  proving they lied in the past when they have recently come on and said they never said they were not coming back watching them either change the subject or not come back when I called them out on their lies after I reposted their original statements.
> 
> Like I said,they must have forgot this place keeps records of your past posts.
> 
> But yeah,I am glad to see as well that you have not fallen for the lies the media has spread over the years that LA is not a football town that they never supported the rams there.
> 
> Very few people around these parts at this site HAVENT fallen for that myth that LA is not an NFL football town.
> 
> Now that would be true about the raiders if they were talking about them.Only the thugs for the most part,embraced them there in LA.but thats not true about the Rams at all.
> 
> I think that evil bitch had the media in her pocket and she was able to get them to spread those lies for her which is why so many people have that misconception that LA is not a football town and never supported the Rams which is not true at all.
> 
> cause like you said,it wasnt till the early 90's when the bitch purposely dismantled the team trading away greats eric dickerson,toby harrah,kevin greene and others so they would start losing all their games so she could get them to stop showing up so she could get her wish to move them out of LA to her home town of st louis,that fans stopped supporting them.
> 
> you try and explain to that to people around here though and it just goes through one ear and out the other with them, though.its like talking to a brick wall.they dont get it. Its only the people out there in california like you who understand what I am talking about so its a refreashing change to actually talk to someone here who gets all this.I didnt think they existed.
> 
> this is a very interesting video on an interview LA resident Al Michaels gave on the myth that LA never supported the Rams.Michales broadcast many Rams games out there so he is a good authority on it.
> 
> 
> here is further proof that Michaels indeed knows what he is talking about and speaks the truth.you can see from these highlights of Rams games played in LA that they did indeed pack the houses till the bitch purposely destroyed the team so she could get what she wanted,people stop showing up so she could move the team.
> 
> take a real quick look at these real short videos here below of Rams highlights of games played in LA.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like pretty packed houses to me. and those two games were not even against division rivals or long time rivalrys either.
> 
> so much for the myth they did not support them in LA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The NFL team to LA talk is white noise. I drown it out. The NFL uses LA like a pawn. They want other cities to know that if they don't get what they want, then it's curtains. Fuck the NFL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well the NFL IS a joke no doubt.No question about that.thanks to them letting people like Beli- CHEAT still stay in the game for example and allowing teams to move like they have over the years,and playing in dome stadiums,they have turned it into a joke because of that so yeah,fuck the NFL.i agree.
> 
> But if you are smoking crack like so many others here are who actually believe the Rams are staying in st louis this year despite all the facts i listed that took you to school just then,something that seems to be the delusion of practically everyone around here,if you are ONE of those deluded people who still believe that such as trolls  antiquity and rightwinger,then answer this ONE question THEY refused to answer back then when they insisted they are staying in st louis this year.
> 
> what are YOU going to say come february 15th when you are proven wrong by me and it becomes offiical that  the rams announce they are moving back to LA this year and march 1st when the owners overwhelmingly vote in favor of it?
> 
> I could not get an answer from trolls like rightwinger and antiquity and SEVERAL others back then when i asked them that question,they just changed the subject.are you going to do the same with me and not give me and answer like those idiots refused to do?
> 
> i am guessing yes since like them,you have refused to look at the facts.a common trait with USMB posters around here. I've only encountered a handful that i talk to by pm who actually take the  time to look at the facts and are objective about it for some reason.
> 
> waits for answer.
Click to expand...


You're assuming I care if I'm wrong. I've made my educated guess that the Rams won't be coming to LA. But it's maybe 70-30 based on what I've browsed. It's expensive to build a stadium in LA. I think the owner is leveraging for a stadium in St. Louis. That seems to be working thus far.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

TheGreatGatsby said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, Georgia what's her face pulled a 'Major League' and it was totally obvious. She made the team suck to get the attendance low to get out of the lease and then she bailed because she was 'homesick.' A part of me was happy when she died.
> 
> A Dodger season ticket holder? Nah, I hate the Dodgers.
> 
> And I don't know if I'd convert back to being a Rams fan if they moved back; and they won't btw. Their owner is just leveraging a move for a new stadium.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I forgot to mention that Georgia had the audacity to blame the fans on her way out. It's one thing to do what she did to get the team out. But her unfounded shot was what made me realize that that lady was unconsciousable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Im glad you now understand that leverage thing is a thing of the past and  is an absurd belief to have on thinking the Rams wont be back this year after I laid out those facts for you..
> 
> unlike antiquity troll who thanked you,glad to see that YOU can accept it that they  are moving back.finding people around here like that is like looking for a needle in the haystack.
> 
> Finding someone at THIS site unlike other message boards I go where sports fans are far more knowledgeblee thank god,,its rare to find around these parts at this site in the sports section someone who understands this.its like talking to a brick wall to the majority of the posters around here.
> 
> a few have had pm conversations with me back in august saying I would  have the last laugh on them come feb15th which I ALREADY am having the last laugh on them  proving they lied in the past when they have recently come on and said they never said they were not coming back watching them either change the subject or not come back when I called them out on their lies after I reposted their original statements.
> 
> Like I said,they must have forgot this place keeps records of your past posts.
> 
> But yeah,I am glad to see as well that you have not fallen for the lies the media has spread over the years that LA is not a football town that they never supported the rams there.
> 
> Very few people around these parts at this site HAVENT fallen for that myth that LA is not an NFL football town.
> 
> Now that would be true about the raiders if they were talking about them.Only the thugs for the most part,embraced them there in LA.but thats not true about the Rams at all.
> 
> I think that evil bitch had the media in her pocket and she was able to get them to spread those lies for her which is why so many people have that misconception that LA is not a football town and never supported the Rams which is not true at all.
> 
> cause like you said,it wasnt till the early 90's when the bitch purposely dismantled the team trading away greats eric dickerson,toby harrah,kevin greene and others so they would start losing all their games so she could get them to stop showing up so she could get her wish to move them out of LA to her home town of st louis,that fans stopped supporting them.
> 
> you try and explain to that to people around here though and it just goes through one ear and out the other with them, though.its like talking to a brick wall.they dont get it. Its only the people out there in california like you who understand what I am talking about so its a refreashing change to actually talk to someone here who gets all this.I didnt think they existed.
> 
> this is a very interesting video on an interview LA resident Al Michaels gave on the myth that LA never supported the Rams.Michales broadcast many Rams games out there so he is a good authority on it.
> 
> 
> here is further proof that Michaels indeed knows what he is talking about and speaks the truth.you can see from these highlights of Rams games played in LA that they did indeed pack the houses till the bitch purposely destroyed the team so she could get what she wanted,people stop showing up so she could move the team.
> 
> take a real quick look at these real short videos here below of Rams highlights of games played in LA.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like pretty packed houses to me. and those two games were not even against division rivals or long time rivalrys either.
> 
> so much for the myth they did not support them in LA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The NFL team to LA talk is white noise. I drown it out. The NFL uses LA like a pawn. They want other cities to know that if they don't get what they want, then it's curtains. Fuck the NFL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well the NFL IS a joke no doubt.No question about that.thanks to them letting people like Beli- CHEAT still stay in the game for example and allowing teams to move like they have over the years,and playing in dome stadiums,they have turned it into a joke because of that so yeah,fuck the NFL.i agree.
> 
> But if you are smoking crack like so many others here are who actually believe the Rams are staying in st louis this year despite all the facts i listed that took you to school just then,something that seems to be the delusion of practically everyone around here,if you are ONE of those deluded people who still believe that such as trolls  antiquity and rightwinger,then answer this ONE question THEY refused to answer back then when they insisted they are staying in st louis this year.
> 
> what are YOU going to say come february 15th when you are proven wrong by me and it becomes offiical that  the rams announce they are moving back to LA this year and march 1st when the owners overwhelmingly vote in favor of it?
> 
> I could not get an answer from trolls like rightwinger and antiquity and SEVERAL others back then when i asked them that question,they just changed the subject.are you going to do the same with me and not give me and answer like those idiots refused to do?
> 
> i am guessing yes since like them,you have refused to look at the facts.a common trait with USMB posters around here. I've only encountered a handful that i talk to by pm who actually take the  time to look at the facts and are objective about it for some reason.
> 
> waits for answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're assuming I care if I'm wrong. I've made my educated guess that the Rams won't be coming to LA. But it's maybe 70-30 based on what I've browsed. It's expensive to build a stadium in LA. I think the owner is leveraging for a stadium in St. Louis. That seems to be working thus far.
Click to expand...

oh well practically everyone here at USMB has trolled when i have tried to have a rational discussion with them on this blatantly ignoring facts for some bizarre reason refusing to look at an opposing view different than their own and cant stand to hear the facts so I have gotten kinda where everyone here at this site in this section i expect that from,they  dont use logic and common sense like other sports fans at this one sports message board i post at where the majority see eye to eye with me on this.

yes its expensive, but kronke has deep pockets and you got to remember what seems like something thats really expensive to US,its pocket change to him.

i just detailed all the facts for you how  that is just ludicrous and absurd nonsense that  he is leveraging for a new stadium there.,if you are going to ignore it like everybody else does here practically,well then no point in going any further with you on this then.



One more thing i will leave you with on this thread before I leave is I know this one net friend i talk to that lives out there in st louis and he went to the rams/chargers game in san diego they had this year cause he has parents that live out there that he wanted to visit.

He has told me that going to rams games in st louis they always feel like road games to him because the opposing teams crowds ALWAYS greatly outnumber rams fans.if you ever watch any of their games they play there,you can see for yourself he is telling the truth.

He also told me that while at that rams game in san diego,it was quite a pleasure to actually see so many people in the thousands out there cheering them on.

He said it felt like a HOME game there and i know for a fact he was telling the truth because i watched that game and when the rams scored the first score in the game, i saw countless thousands of people jumping up and down cheering for them like it was a playoff game,it was for sure a playoff atmosphere there.

it was even learned that the chargers box office sold 20,00 tickets to rams fans there.

the dome in st louis is practically always dead quiet there when that happens.that cant please kroneke.

stan cannot possibly be happy with that situation.He goes to LA that all changes instantly.

Dude AGAIN,kroneke wants OUT of saint louis and its well known he WANTS to be in LA.looks like you missed that part somehow when i said that earlier.

think im lying? just watch the monday night football game played in st louis this year between the rams and 49ers.Just like FIVE minutes before the game started, we heard steve young  making these comments-

"will the Rams be back in LA next year? They have an owner who has made it known he WANTS to be there.Looking at this crowd. i cant blame him.Look around here,empty seats everywhere.."

true comments HE made,not my words,YOUNGS words.

You think that makes Kronke happy to want to get a new stadium there?

what fantasy you living in? oh and you also missed the most important part where the value of his team which is ranked DEAD last of all 32 teams,TRIPLES from the move to LA as well. there is a reason WHY stan is rich you know?

I will leave you with this video so you can see for yourself that I am not making any of this stuff up about how the rams had literally THOUSANDS at the chargers/rams game this year.you do not see that kind of support in st louis and again,you ALSO ,missed the part that its IMPOSSIBLE for st louis to build a new stadium there cause they are BANKRUPT there in st louis. millions in debt,please try and keep up with me.

so stan is going to hope that st louis,a city that is bankrupt,millions in debt,is going to somehow create a billion dollar stadium out there  somehow to build a new stadium out there and want to stay for a fan base that does not support them where he can be three times richer moving the team to LA because the value of the team triples? gotcha.

earth to the great gatsby? not happening.

here,you can see for yourself,that unlike st louis,he wiill have a packed stadium in LA when they return just as they always packed them in out there.that I am not making any of this up that there were probably 1/3 rams fans there from LA at the san diego game.

It’s no secret that the Rams have had trouble filling The Dome with Rams fans for some time.

Are the Rams staying or going FOX2now.com

St. Louis Rams fans takeover San Diego TruluvSports. com


----------



## HUGGY

Trolling can take many forms.  One of these is hijacking a thread in clear disregard of the purpose of the OP and the interest of those that come to this and other threads hoping to follow the intent of the OP.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

9/11 inside job said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> I forgot to mention that Georgia had the audacity to blame the fans on her way out. It's one thing to do what she did to get the team out. But her unfounded shot was what made me realize that that lady was unconsciousable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im glad you now understand that leverage thing is a thing of the past and  is an absurd belief to have on thinking the Rams wont be back this year after I laid out those facts for you..
> 
> unlike antiquity troll who thanked you,glad to see that YOU can accept it that they  are moving back.finding people around here like that is like looking for a needle in the haystack.
> 
> Finding someone at THIS site unlike other message boards I go where sports fans are far more knowledgeblee thank god,,its rare to find around these parts at this site in the sports section someone who understands this.its like talking to a brick wall to the majority of the posters around here.
> 
> a few have had pm conversations with me back in august saying I would  have the last laugh on them come feb15th which I ALREADY am having the last laugh on them  proving they lied in the past when they have recently come on and said they never said they were not coming back watching them either change the subject or not come back when I called them out on their lies after I reposted their original statements.
> 
> Like I said,they must have forgot this place keeps records of your past posts.
> 
> But yeah,I am glad to see as well that you have not fallen for the lies the media has spread over the years that LA is not a football town that they never supported the rams there.
> 
> Very few people around these parts at this site HAVENT fallen for that myth that LA is not an NFL football town.
> 
> Now that would be true about the raiders if they were talking about them.Only the thugs for the most part,embraced them there in LA.but thats not true about the Rams at all.
> 
> I think that evil bitch had the media in her pocket and she was able to get them to spread those lies for her which is why so many people have that misconception that LA is not a football town and never supported the Rams which is not true at all.
> 
> cause like you said,it wasnt till the early 90's when the bitch purposely dismantled the team trading away greats eric dickerson,toby harrah,kevin greene and others so they would start losing all their games so she could get them to stop showing up so she could get her wish to move them out of LA to her home town of st louis,that fans stopped supporting them.
> 
> you try and explain to that to people around here though and it just goes through one ear and out the other with them, though.its like talking to a brick wall.they dont get it. Its only the people out there in california like you who understand what I am talking about so its a refreashing change to actually talk to someone here who gets all this.I didnt think they existed.
> 
> this is a very interesting video on an interview LA resident Al Michaels gave on the myth that LA never supported the Rams.Michales broadcast many Rams games out there so he is a good authority on it.
> 
> 
> here is further proof that Michaels indeed knows what he is talking about and speaks the truth.you can see from these highlights of Rams games played in LA that they did indeed pack the houses till the bitch purposely destroyed the team so she could get what she wanted,people stop showing up so she could move the team.
> 
> take a real quick look at these real short videos here below of Rams highlights of games played in LA.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like pretty packed houses to me. and those two games were not even against division rivals or long time rivalrys either.
> 
> so much for the myth they did not support them in LA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The NFL team to LA talk is white noise. I drown it out. The NFL uses LA like a pawn. They want other cities to know that if they don't get what they want, then it's curtains. Fuck the NFL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well the NFL IS a joke no doubt.No question about that.thanks to them letting people like Beli- CHEAT still stay in the game for example and allowing teams to move like they have over the years,and playing in dome stadiums,they have turned it into a joke because of that so yeah,fuck the NFL.i agree.
> 
> But if you are smoking crack like so many others here are who actually believe the Rams are staying in st louis this year despite all the facts i listed that took you to school just then,something that seems to be the delusion of practically everyone around here,if you are ONE of those deluded people who still believe that such as trolls  antiquity and rightwinger,then answer this ONE question THEY refused to answer back then when they insisted they are staying in st louis this year.
> 
> what are YOU going to say come february 15th when you are proven wrong by me and it becomes offiical that  the rams announce they are moving back to LA this year and march 1st when the owners overwhelmingly vote in favor of it?
> 
> I could not get an answer from trolls like rightwinger and antiquity and SEVERAL others back then when i asked them that question,they just changed the subject.are you going to do the same with me and not give me and answer like those idiots refused to do?
> 
> i am guessing yes since like them,you have refused to look at the facts.a common trait with USMB posters around here. I've only encountered a handful that i talk to by pm who actually take the  time to look at the facts and are objective about it for some reason.
> 
> waits for answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're assuming I care if I'm wrong. I've made my educated guess that the Rams won't be coming to LA. But it's maybe 70-30 based on what I've browsed. It's expensive to build a stadium in LA. I think the owner is leveraging for a stadium in St. Louis. That seems to be working thus far.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> oh well practically everyone here at USMB has trolled when i have tried to have a rational discussion with them on this blatantly ignoring facts for some bizarre reason refusing to look at an opposing view different than their own and cant stand to hear the facts so I have gotten kinda where everyone here at this site in this section i expect that from,they  dont use logic and common sense like other sports fans at this one sports message board i post at where the majority see eye to eye with me on this.
> 
> yes its expensive, but kronke has deep pockets and you got to remember what seems like something thats really expensive to US,its pocket change to him.
> 
> i just detailed all the facts for you how  that is just ludicrous and absurd nonsense that  he is leveraging for a new stadium there.,if you are going to ignore it like everybody else does here practically,well then no point in going any further with you on this then.
> 
> 
> 
> One more thing i will leave you with on this thread before I leave is I know this one net friend i talk to that lives out there in st louis and he went to the rams/chargers game in san diego they had this year cause he has parents that live out there that he wanted to visit.
> 
> He has told me that going to rams games in st louis they always feel like road games to him because the opposing teams crowds ALWAYS greatly outnumber rams fans.if you ever watch any of their games they play there,you can see for yourself he is telling the truth.
> 
> He also told me that while at that rams game in san diego,it was quite a pleasure to actually see so many people in the thousands out there cheering them on.
> 
> He said it felt like a HOME game there and i know for a fact he was telling the truth because i watched that game and when the rams scored the first score in the game, i saw countless thousands of people jumping up and down cheering for them like it was a playoff game,it was for sure a playoff atmosphere there.
> 
> it was even learned that the chargers box office sold 20,00 tickets to rams fans there.
> 
> the dome in st louis is practically always dead quiet there when that happens.that cant please kroneke.
> 
> stan cannot possibly be happy with that situation.He goes to LA that all changes instantly.
> 
> Dude AGAIN,kroneke wants OUT of saint louis and its well known he WANTS to be in LA.looks like you missed that part somehow when i said that earlier.
> 
> think im lying? just watch the monday night football game played in st louis this year between the rams and 49ers.Just like FIVE minutes before the game started, we heard steve young  making these comments-
> 
> "will the Rams be back in LA next year? They have an owner who has made it known he WANTS to be there.Looking at this crowd. i cant blame him.Look around here,empty seats everywhere.."
> 
> true comments HE made,not my words,YOUNGS words.
> 
> You think that makes Kronke happy to want to get a new stadium there?
> 
> what fantasy you living in? oh and you also missed the most important part where the value of his team which is ranked DEAD last of all 32 teams,TRIPLES from the move to LA as well. there is a reason WHY stan is rich you know?
> 
> I will leave you with this video so you can see for yourself that I am not making any of this stuff up about how the rams had literally THOUSANDS at the chargers/rams game this year.you do not see that kind of support in st louis and again,you ALSO ,missed the part that its IMPOSSIBLE for st louis to build a new stadium there cause they are BANKRUPT there in st louis. millions in debt,please try and keep up with me.
> 
> so stan is going to hope that st louis,a city that is bankrupt,millions in debt,is going to somehow create a billion dollar stadium out there  somehow to build a new stadium out there and want to stay for a fan base that does not support them where he can be three times richer moving the team to LA because the value of the team triples? gotcha.
> 
> earth to the great gatsby? not happening.
> 
> here,you can see for yourself,that unlike st louis,he wiill have a packed stadium in LA when they return just as they always packed them in out there.that I am not making any of this up that there were probably 1/3 rams fans there from LA at the san diego game.
> 
> It’s no secret that the Rams have had trouble filling The Dome with Rams fans for some time.
> 
> Are the Rams staying or going FOX2now.com
> 
> St. Louis Rams fans takeover San Diego TruluvSports. com
Click to expand...


Seriously, dude. You're giving me long winded essays to simple one and two line responses. It's not hard to light your fuse especially. Anyhow, we'll see what happens. I don't have a dog in the fight.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro

This thread is not about whether or not the Rams move to LA so please take that discussion elsewhere.  Thanks


----------



## BluePhantom

Toro said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> The StupidGatsby  would go to an orphanage and find the cryingest baby and adopt it just so when he travels by air he has left his mark.
> 
> Nice work. Now let's see if you can undo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a belabored analogy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And still it holds no candle to what you did to this thread.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, I don't think gasbag did anything to this thread. It went into surreal bizarro world by about the fourth post, which is to be expected given the author.
Click to expand...


That cuts me deep Toro....that cuts me deep.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

TheGreatGatsby said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Im glad you now understand that leverage thing is a thing of the past and  is an absurd belief to have on thinking the Rams wont be back this year after I laid out those facts for you..
> 
> unlike antiquity troll who thanked you,glad to see that YOU can accept it that they  are moving back.finding people around here like that is like looking for a needle in the haystack.
> 
> Finding someone at THIS site unlike other message boards I go where sports fans are far more knowledgeblee thank god,,its rare to find around these parts at this site in the sports section someone who understands this.its like talking to a brick wall to the majority of the posters around here.
> 
> a few have had pm conversations with me back in august saying I would  have the last laugh on them come feb15th which I ALREADY am having the last laugh on them  proving they lied in the past when they have recently come on and said they never said they were not coming back watching them either change the subject or not come back when I called them out on their lies after I reposted their original statements.
> 
> Like I said,they must have forgot this place keeps records of your past posts.
> 
> But yeah,I am glad to see as well that you have not fallen for the lies the media has spread over the years that LA is not a football town that they never supported the rams there.
> 
> Very few people around these parts at this site HAVENT fallen for that myth that LA is not an NFL football town.
> 
> Now that would be true about the raiders if they were talking about them.Only the thugs for the most part,embraced them there in LA.but thats not true about the Rams at all.
> 
> I think that evil bitch had the media in her pocket and she was able to get them to spread those lies for her which is why so many people have that misconception that LA is not a football town and never supported the Rams which is not true at all.
> 
> cause like you said,it wasnt till the early 90's when the bitch purposely dismantled the team trading away greats eric dickerson,toby harrah,kevin greene and others so they would start losing all their games so she could get them to stop showing up so she could get her wish to move them out of LA to her home town of st louis,that fans stopped supporting them.
> 
> you try and explain to that to people around here though and it just goes through one ear and out the other with them, though.its like talking to a brick wall.they dont get it. Its only the people out there in california like you who understand what I am talking about so its a refreashing change to actually talk to someone here who gets all this.I didnt think they existed.
> 
> this is a very interesting video on an interview LA resident Al Michaels gave on the myth that LA never supported the Rams.Michales broadcast many Rams games out there so he is a good authority on it.
> 
> 
> here is further proof that Michaels indeed knows what he is talking about and speaks the truth.you can see from these highlights of Rams games played in LA that they did indeed pack the houses till the bitch purposely destroyed the team so she could get what she wanted,people stop showing up so she could move the team.
> 
> take a real quick look at these real short videos here below of Rams highlights of games played in LA.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like pretty packed houses to me. and those two games were not even against division rivals or long time rivalrys either.
> 
> so much for the myth they did not support them in LA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The NFL team to LA talk is white noise. I drown it out. The NFL uses LA like a pawn. They want other cities to know that if they don't get what they want, then it's curtains. Fuck the NFL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well the NFL IS a joke no doubt.No question about that.thanks to them letting people like Beli- CHEAT still stay in the game for example and allowing teams to move like they have over the years,and playing in dome stadiums,they have turned it into a joke because of that so yeah,fuck the NFL.i agree.
> 
> But if you are smoking crack like so many others here are who actually believe the Rams are staying in st louis this year despite all the facts i listed that took you to school just then,something that seems to be the delusion of practically everyone around here,if you are ONE of those deluded people who still believe that such as trolls  antiquity and rightwinger,then answer this ONE question THEY refused to answer back then when they insisted they are staying in st louis this year.
> 
> what are YOU going to say come february 15th when you are proven wrong by me and it becomes offiical that  the rams announce they are moving back to LA this year and march 1st when the owners overwhelmingly vote in favor of it?
> 
> I could not get an answer from trolls like rightwinger and antiquity and SEVERAL others back then when i asked them that question,they just changed the subject.are you going to do the same with me and not give me and answer like those idiots refused to do?
> 
> i am guessing yes since like them,you have refused to look at the facts.a common trait with USMB posters around here. I've only encountered a handful that i talk to by pm who actually take the  time to look at the facts and are objective about it for some reason.
> 
> waits for answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're assuming I care if I'm wrong. I've made my educated guess that the Rams won't be coming to LA. But it's maybe 70-30 based on what I've browsed. It's expensive to build a stadium in LA. I think the owner is leveraging for a stadium in St. Louis. That seems to be working thus far.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> oh well practically everyone here at USMB has trolled when i have tried to have a rational discussion with them on this blatantly ignoring facts for some bizarre reason refusing to look at an opposing view different than their own and cant stand to hear the facts so I have gotten kinda where everyone here at this site in this section i expect that from,they  dont use logic and common sense like other sports fans at this one sports message board i post at where the majority see eye to eye with me on this.
> 
> yes its expensive, but kronke has deep pockets and you got to remember what seems like something thats really expensive to US,its pocket change to him.
> 
> i just detailed all the facts for you how  that is just ludicrous and absurd nonsense that  he is leveraging for a new stadium there.,if you are going to ignore it like everybody else does here practically,well then no point in going any further with you on this then.
> 
> 
> 
> One more thing i will leave you with on this thread before I leave is I know this one net friend i talk to that lives out there in st louis and he went to the rams/chargers game in san diego they had this year cause he has parents that live out there that he wanted to visit.
> 
> He has told me that going to rams games in st louis they always feel like road games to him because the opposing teams crowds ALWAYS greatly outnumber rams fans.if you ever watch any of their games they play there,you can see for yourself he is telling the truth.
> 
> He also told me that while at that rams game in san diego,it was quite a pleasure to actually see so many people in the thousands out there cheering them on.
> 
> He said it felt like a HOME game there and i know for a fact he was telling the truth because i watched that game and when the rams scored the first score in the game, i saw countless thousands of people jumping up and down cheering for them like it was a playoff game,it was for sure a playoff atmosphere there.
> 
> it was even learned that the chargers box office sold 20,00 tickets to rams fans there.
> 
> the dome in st louis is practically always dead quiet there when that happens.that cant please kroneke.
> 
> stan cannot possibly be happy with that situation.He goes to LA that all changes instantly.
> 
> Dude AGAIN,kroneke wants OUT of saint louis and its well known he WANTS to be in LA.looks like you missed that part somehow when i said that earlier.
> 
> think im lying? just watch the monday night football game played in st louis this year between the rams and 49ers.Just like FIVE minutes before the game started, we heard steve young  making these comments-
> 
> "will the Rams be back in LA next year? They have an owner who has made it known he WANTS to be there.Looking at this crowd. i cant blame him.Look around here,empty seats everywhere.."
> 
> true comments HE made,not my words,YOUNGS words.
> 
> You think that makes Kronke happy to want to get a new stadium there?
> 
> what fantasy you living in? oh and you also missed the most important part where the value of his team which is ranked DEAD last of all 32 teams,TRIPLES from the move to LA as well. there is a reason WHY stan is rich you know?
> 
> I will leave you with this video so you can see for yourself that I am not making any of this stuff up about how the rams had literally THOUSANDS at the chargers/rams game this year.you do not see that kind of support in st louis and again,you ALSO ,missed the part that its IMPOSSIBLE for st louis to build a new stadium there cause they are BANKRUPT there in st louis. millions in debt,please try and keep up with me.
> 
> so stan is going to hope that st louis,a city that is bankrupt,millions in debt,is going to somehow create a billion dollar stadium out there  somehow to build a new stadium out there and want to stay for a fan base that does not support them where he can be three times richer moving the team to LA because the value of the team triples? gotcha.
> 
> earth to the great gatsby? not happening.
> 
> here,you can see for yourself,that unlike st louis,he wiill have a packed stadium in LA when they return just as they always packed them in out there.that I am not making any of this up that there were probably 1/3 rams fans there from LA at the san diego game.
> 
> It’s no secret that the Rams have had trouble filling The Dome with Rams fans for some time.
> 
> Are the Rams staying or going FOX2now.com
> 
> St. Louis Rams fans takeover San Diego TruluvSports. com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seriously, dude. You're giving me long winded essays to simple one and two line responses. It's not hard to light your fuse especially. Anyhow, we'll see what happens. I don't have a dog in the fight.
Click to expand...


Here,if you want,hop on over to my Rams thread  here
and I'll keep it to just a few sentences there.

expect Rams to be back in LA next year. US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

and yeah with this particular subject,i kinda give essays on it no doubt and that's just because of my passion for it.

I wouldn't invest so much time and effort in it if I wasn't confidant and positive it was going to happen and yeah,when people refuse to read my links and videos I post on it  and not look at the facts like so many have here at this place,after a period of time,i get a short fuse on it.

anyways,im going to give a short reply of a few sentences on it over omy rams thread which spells it out.thats the place where it needs to be discussed.

oh and as far as this OP goes just so you know,wilson is going to be a lock in the hall of fame someday I guarantee.He is one of those rare hard to find quarterbacks who makes players around him better than they are and gives them great confidance,he makes so so players into good players,good players into great players,a lot of the greats had that skill.Unitas had it,elway had it,marino had it,manning had it,brady has it,and of course,probably the greatest quarterback of all time who I have a pic of me sitting next to framed,my man Montana has it.

Wilson has it to.

I saw Wilson before he made his first regular season start ever in a pre season game here in town and I knew right then,he was going to be great.i saw his complete a pass deep down the filed accurately where only the reciver could catch it on a long third and long play and it just made my jaw drop.i said right then-This guy ia amazing,he is going to be a great quarterback and hall of famer someday.

I understood right there and then,WHY carrol chose to make him the starter that year his rookie year over matt Flynn who they paid tons of money for.


----------



## antiquity

HUGGY said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> The StupidGatsby  would go to an orphanage and find the cryingest baby and adopt it just so when he travels by air he has left his mark.
> 
> Nice work. Now let's see if you can undo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a belabored analogy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And still it holds no candle to what you did to this thread.
> 
> Thanks.
Click to expand...

 What he did to this thread?
What do you think about what 911 is doing to this thread with his back to LA bullshit which I got a feeling no one cares about, especially on thread about Wilson v Manning.


----------



## Papageorgio

Manning has had a great career, unparalleled.

I think that Wilson is a QB that can be great, but not the way Manning has been, I do worry about injuries as Wilson ages, not sure if his career will be as long.


----------



## HUGGY

Papageorgio said:


> Manning has had a great career, unparalleled.
> 
> I think that Wilson is a QB that can be great, but not the way Manning has been, I do worry about injuries as Wilson ages, not sure if his career will be as long.



I agree.  Wilson's longevity in the NFL will probably be somewhat similar to a running back more so than the typical pocket passer QB that doesn't take too many blindside shots.

Wilson doesn't get hit directly that often though.  He usually has a chance to mitigate the effects of linemen pushing him to the ground.  

I had an opportunity to talk to ex Husky and ex Seahawk Brock Huard a year after an injury suffered the season before in Denver.  This was at a Seahawk practice in Cheney WA many years ago while he was still on the team.  He had suffered massive injury to his Kidneys by a horrendous blindside from a Denver CB.  Huard pissed blood for a while and marked the end to his career.  Brock is a radio and TV personality now in Seattle and brings up his injury from time to time.

It is very unlikely Wilson will ever get the blindside.  I see his scrambling style as in fact a defense to the typical QB injury.

Still his legs will eventually fail him and the speed he enjoys now will gradually diminish.  

Unless otherwise knocked out I can see Russell playing for a solid 10-12 years.  That is plenty of time to establish a history and get enough done to eventually make it to the HOF.


----------



## Papageorgio

You could be right about Wilson, my thinking is he can run and avoid for so long and then eventually you get older and slower and it only takes one hit. You look at Manning and I think he is done, last year he played lights out until the playoffs, then this year it was through October he looked good, he is running out of gas earlier and earlier. 

I do feel if Luck beats Brady, it will be Lucks league for the next 10 years, this is Brady's last hurrah. Rogers has a couple years left and I think Wilson has 5-7 years.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

HUGGY said:


> I think that Wilson is a QB that can be great, but not the way Manning has been, I do worry about injuries as Wilson ages, not sure if his career will be as long.
> 
> I agree.  Wilson's longevity in the NFL will probably be somewhat similar to a running back more so than the typical pocket passer QB that doesn't take too many blindside shots.



If it is, it'll be because he never even becomes an okay pocket passer. And if that is the case, I think all the great talk is short sighted. He may have a relatively great window; but that speaks to the team he is on and the system he is in. He wouldn't be winning titles in Cleveland or otherwise be making pro bowls.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

I saw Wilson before he made his first regular season start ever in a pre season game here in town and I knew right then,he was going to be great.i saw his complete a pass deep down the filed accurately where only the reciver could catch it on a long third and long play and it just made my jaw drop.i said right then-This guy ia amazing,he is going to be a great quarterback and hall of famer someday.

I understood right there and then,WHY carrol chose to make him the starter that year his rookie year over matt Flynn who they paid tons of money for.  talking a little further on this,i mean he put it right there where only the reciever could get it and the defender had excellent coverage on him as well.i thought at the time there was no way in hell he would complete it,i could not believe he did.reminded me of the playoff game against the saints last year in the playoffs.they had like a 3rd and 18 and he threw it deep down the field and i thought to myself man what the hell is carrol doing? cause you would think they would have just called like a safe screen pass and try and run to pick up the 18 years,you never thought they would take a chance like that when it was a critical time on the game but carrol had confidance in wilson that he could throw it deep down the field accuratly with a defnder all over baldwin and his condifance in wilson paid off.


----------



## Papageorgio

^^someone farted^^


----------



## HUGGY

TheGreatGatsby said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think that Wilson is a QB that can be great, but not the way Manning has been, I do worry about injuries as Wilson ages, not sure if his career will be as long.
> 
> I agree.  Wilson's longevity in the NFL will probably be somewhat similar to a running back more so than the typical pocket passer QB that doesn't take too many blindside shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, it'll be *because he never even becomes an okay pocket passer*. And if that is the case, I think all the great talk is short sighted. He may have a relatively great window; but that speaks to the team he is on and the system he is in. He wouldn't be winning titles in Cleveland or otherwise be making pro bowls.
Click to expand...


That is a silly comment.  Wilson is already a very good pocket passer.  The Seattle offense has a variety of plays mostly based on the read option.  They mix in a few classic pocket style plays occasionally and Russell has been very successful from that formation.  Seattle leads the league in plus 20 yard plays many of which came from throws inside the pocket.

Another thing I find annoying from casual viewers of Seahawk games is the misconception derived from overall yardage measurements at the end of Hawk's games.  Seattle FREQUENTLY gets excellent field position from a combination of Special Teams play and the many fumbles and interceptions we enjoy.  In a typical game we might only need to go somewhere less than 50 yards to score while our opponents typically have to go nearly twice as far.  A final score of 31-7 with the other team actually gaining MORE yards than the Hawks is not uncommon.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

3rd Quarter of NFC Championship; Thus far, the girly special teams passer has one more TD completion than Wilson.


----------



## HUGGY

Interesting that the combination that led to 4 interceptions also accounted for the winning TD.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

HUGGY said:


> Interesting that the combination that led to 4 interceptions also accounted for the winning TD.



Packers didn't play over the top safety help on two plays in a row. Any halfway decent QB could have made that pass. In fairness, Wilson was unlucky on some of those interceptions. But come on; nobody can say that Wilson looked good today.


----------



## HUGGY

TheGreatGatsby said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting that the combination that led to 4 interceptions also accounted for the winning TD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Packers didn't play over the top safety help on two plays in a row. Any halfway decent QB could have made that pass. In fairness, Wilson was unlucky on some of those interceptions. But come on; nobody can say that Wilson looked good today.
Click to expand...


Are you crazy?  Who in their right mind would say Wilson had a great or even a good game today?

Wilson played like dog shit for three qtrs.  He totally stunk up the CLink.

Then he and Lynch reached in deep and willed their way to a win today.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

wow,nobody can dispute wilson has a great quarterback now.regardless of what he does in the superbowl,every few quarterbacks have the resiliency he displayed to keep his composure like that and black out those 4 interceptions to come back and win the game like he did and being accuarete on the 2 point conversion like that. i have said it before.he reminds me so much of montana and elway.thoes two guys would have days they would stink up the joint for most the game like wilson did today but in the end,they were moneytime and won the game when it matterd with key throws which is what wilson did today.He did what thge greats do,forget what he did in the past and be cluth whnen it counted.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

HUGGY said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting that the combination that led to 4 interceptions also accounted for the winning TD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Packers didn't play over the top safety help on two plays in a row. Any halfway decent QB could have made that pass. In fairness, Wilson was unlucky on some of those interceptions. But come on; nobody can say that Wilson looked good today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you crazy?  Who in their right mind would say Wilson had a great or even a good game today?
> 
> Wilson played like dog shit for three qtrs.  He totally stunk up the CLink.
> 
> Then he and Lynch reached in deep and willed their way to a win today.
Click to expand...

 thats what the greats do,stick up the joint for most the game but put that out of their mind and make the plays they have to when it matters as he did today.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

HUGGY said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting that the combination that led to 4 interceptions also accounted for the winning TD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Packers didn't play over the top safety help on two plays in a row. Any halfway decent QB could have made that pass. In fairness, Wilson was unlucky on some of those interceptions. But come on; nobody can say that Wilson looked good today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you crazy?  Who in their right mind would say Wilson had a great or even a good game today?
> 
> Wilson played like dog shit for three qtrs.  He totally stunk up the CLink.
> 
> Then he and Lynch reached in deep and willed their way to a win today.
Click to expand...


Wilson made the right plays in general down the stretch. But Lynch, GB playing not to lose, and a tight end not making a simple grab were the reasons that Seattle won a game they had no business winning.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

9/11 inside job said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting that the combination that led to 4 interceptions also accounted for the winning TD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Packers didn't play over the top safety help on two plays in a row. Any halfway decent QB could have made that pass. In fairness, Wilson was unlucky on some of those interceptions. But come on; nobody can say that Wilson looked good today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you crazy?  Who in their right mind would say Wilson had a great or even a good game today?
> 
> Wilson played like dog shit for three qtrs.  He totally stunk up the CLink.
> 
> Then he and Lynch reached in deep and willed their way to a win today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> thats what the greats do,stick up the joint for most the game but put that out of their mind and make the plays they have to when it matters as he did today.
Click to expand...


Well, certainly the media and fan boys are fond of ignoring facts and pointing to pivotal plays. Based on that reality, Wilson may as well have thrown for 400 yards and 4 TDs and ran for another couple TDs today. Cos in the end, that's how it'll be remembered.


----------



## BluePhantom

Well.......I will write tomorrow but tonight is for celebration.  That was by far the worst game of Wilson's career....until it mattered and then he stuck it in their heart.  Most amazing comeback I have seen in years, if ever.    Like I said....I will write more another time.  Tonight is just for celebration.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!
NFC CHAMPIONS!!!!!


----------



## Toro

Bar the last 5 minutes, Wilson was terrible.

But he was good when it mattered most.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

BluePhantom said:


> Well.......I will write tomorrow but tonight is for celebration.  That was by far the worst game of Wilson's career....until it mattered and then he stuck it in their heart.  Most amazing comeback I have seen in years, if ever.    Like I said....I will write more another time.  Tonight is just for celebration.
> 
> GO HAWKS!!!!!!
> NFC CHAMPIONS!!!!!



I wouldn't doubt Wilson's heart or say he's not a good QB. I will be the voice of reason though.


----------



## Rocko

Wait...I just saw this thread. Who in the world would think Russell Wilson will ever hold a candle to Peyton Manning?!?!?!! 

No disrespect to Wilson - he's a good young player, but Peyton is one of the best to ever play the game!


----------



## BluePhantom

Toro said:


> Bar the last 5 minutes, Wilson was terrible.
> 
> But he was good when it mattered most.



Well I have had my night of celebration and I have shaken off my hang over.Wel you know usually Wilson has the Midas touch, but for 55 minutes yesterday he had the Mr. Hanke touch....everything he touched turned to shit.  Seahawks were dominated in all phases of that game....until it mattered most.  Was it luck?  Was it domination?  I tend to think that excellent play creates your own luck.  The two point conversion was probably nothing more than a gift from almighty God.  The TD pass to win it in overtime (including the pass to Baldwin right before) was simply perfect execution.  The onside kick I suppose had the element of luck that the guy didn't catch the ball, but it was a perfectly executed kick and a perfectly executed flood of the zone by the Seahawks too.  
But as far as Wilson....yeah I have never seen him play that bad....until stuck a dagger in the Packers.  Take away from it what you will I guess.


----------



## Papageorgio

BluePhantom said:


> Wilson also has the highest career quarterback rating in the playoffs in NFL history; better than Aikman, better than Favre, better than Montana, Marino, Rodgers, Brees, Bradshaw, Unitas, Starr, Brady, Staubach, and yes far better than Manning.  No quarterback in the history of the NFL has exploded in the playoffs like Russell Wilson has the last three years.  I'd say he is pretty confident.
> 
> Impeccable Russell Wilson in rare company after another strong postseason performance HeraldNet.com - Seattle Sidelines



Well, Wilson is no longer has the highest QB rating in the playoffs in NFL history. One game moved him from 1 to 5.


----------



## manifold

Manonthestreet said:


> I have always wondered why they never paired a decent back with Manning .... .....



You forgot the emoticon, because that _has_ to be a joke.


----------



## manifold

As for the OP, I'd take Wilson over Manning every day of the week and twice on Sunday... Ten times on Sunday's in January.


----------



## antiquity

Rocko said:


> Wait...I just saw this thread. Who in the world would think Russell Wilson will ever hold a candle to Peyton Manning?!?!?!!
> 
> No disrespect to Wilson - he's a good young player, but Peyton is one of the best to ever play the game!



With one Super Bowl ring.....


----------



## antiquity

manifold said:


> As for the OP, I'd take Wilson over Manning every day of the week and twice on Sunday... Ten times on Sunday's in January.



Right, I am with you on that..with all of Manning accomplishment and there are many he can be proud of he still has the same number of Super Bowls rings as Wilson and that may change on Feb 1st in Glendale.


----------



## Manonthestreet

manifold said:


> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have always wondered why they never paired a decent back with Manning .... .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot the emoticon, because that _has_ to be a joke.
Click to expand...

Guy couldnt get the ball into the End zone.


----------



## BluePhantom

Papageorgio said:


> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wilson also has the highest career quarterback rating in the playoffs in NFL history; better than Aikman, better than Favre, better than Montana, Marino, Rodgers, Brees, Bradshaw, Unitas, Starr, Brady, Staubach, and yes far better than Manning.  No quarterback in the history of the NFL has exploded in the playoffs like Russell Wilson has the last three years.  I'd say he is pretty confident.
> 
> Impeccable Russell Wilson in rare company after another strong postseason performance HeraldNet.com - Seattle Sidelines
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, Wilson is no longer has the highest QB rating in the playoffs in NFL history. One game moved him from 1 to 5.
Click to expand...



Well that's true.  He played a shitty game for sure but all quarterbacks have them.  For example check out these great playoff efforts:

*Dan Marino / New England 1997*: 17 comp, 43 att, 141 yds, 0 tds, 2 int, 29.3 rating
Dan Marino Career Game Log Pro-Football-Reference.com

*Peyton Manning / New York Jets 2003*: 14 comp, 31 att, 137 yds, 0 td, 2 int, 31.2 rating
*Peyton Manning / New England 2004*: 23 comp, 47 att, 247 yds, 1 td, 4 int, 35.5 rating
*Peyton Manning / Baltimore 2007*: 15 comp, 30 att, 170 yds, 0 tds, 2 int, 39.6 rating
Peyton Manning Career Game Log Pro-Football-Reference.com

*Joe Montana / New York Giants 1987*: 8 comp, 15 att, 98 yds, 0 tds, 2 int, 34.2 rating
*Joe Montana / Buffalo 1994*: 9 comp, 23 att, 125 yds, 0 tds, 1 int, 39.2 rating
Joe Montana Career Game Log Pro-Football-Reference.com

Sometimes it just all goes to shit, you know?   I agree with the Elway quote I posted several days ago about "it's better to be winning in the 4th quarter than have to come back to win in the 4th quarter".  I agree completely and Wilson was absolutely terrible for 55 minutes of that game. 

But what happened next?  See what makes a quarterback great is not that they have never had a bad day.  All quarterbacks, even the legendary ones had bad days....in fact downright disastrous days. What makes a quarterback great is their ability to maintain their composure, let everything that has happened go, and have faith in themselves to lead their team to a victory when they are having one.

After Wilson's last interception with 5:13 left in the game...with the entire season on the line and where most quarterbacks would have crumbled under the pressure and given up, he went 6 for 7 for 134 yards and a touchdown (158.3 rating) and ran three times for 20 more yards and another touchdown.  That is the sign of composure, that's the sign of confidence, that's the stuff of greatness.


----------



## Papageorgio

BluePhantom said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wilson also has the highest career quarterback rating in the playoffs in NFL history; better than Aikman, better than Favre, better than Montana, Marino, Rodgers, Brees, Bradshaw, Unitas, Starr, Brady, Staubach, and yes far better than Manning.  No quarterback in the history of the NFL has exploded in the playoffs like Russell Wilson has the last three years.  I'd say he is pretty confident.
> 
> Impeccable Russell Wilson in rare company after another strong postseason performance HeraldNet.com - Seattle Sidelines
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, Wilson is no longer has the highest QB rating in the playoffs in NFL history. One game moved him from 1 to 5.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's true.  He played a shitty game for sure but all quarterbacks have them.  For example check out these great playoff efforts:
> 
> *Dan Marino / New England 1997*: 17 comp, 43 att, 141 yds, 0 tds, 2 int, 29.3 rating
> Dan Marino Career Game Log Pro-Football-Reference.com
> 
> *Peyton Manning / New York Jets 2003*: 14 comp, 31 att, 137 yds, 0 td, 2 int, 31.2 rating
> *Peyton Manning / New England 2004*: 23 comp, 47 att, 247 yds, 1 td, 4 int, 35.5 rating
> *Peyton Manning / Baltimore 2007*: 15 comp, 30 att, 170 yds, 0 tds, 2 int, 39.6 rating
> Peyton Manning Career Game Log Pro-Football-Reference.com
> 
> *Joe Montana / New York Giants 1987*: 8 comp, 15 att, 98 yds, 0 tds, 2 int, 34.2 rating
> *Joe Montana / Buffalo 1994*: 9 comp, 23 att, 125 yds, 0 tds, 1 int, 39.2 rating
> Joe Montana Career Game Log Pro-Football-Reference.com
> 
> Sometimes it just all goes to shit, you know?   I agree with the Elway quote I posted several days ago about "it's better to be winning in the 4th quarter than have to come back to win in the 4th quarter".  I agree completely and Wilson was absolutely terrible for 55 minutes of that game.
> 
> But what happened next?  See what makes a quarterback great is not that they have never had a bad day.  All quarterbacks, even the legendary ones had bad days....in fact downright disastrous days. What makes a quarterback great is their ability to maintain their composure, let everything that has happened go, and have faith in themselves to lead their team to a victory.
> 
> After Wilson's last interception with 5:13 left in the game...with the entire season on the line and where most quarterbacks would have crumbled under the pressure and given up, he went 6 for 7 for 134 yards and a touchdown (158.3 rating) and ran three times for 20 more yards and another touchdown.  That is the sign of composure, that's the sign of confidence, that's the stuff of greatness.
Click to expand...


Wow, you finally see my point, congrats. Wilson, has a long way to go to be at the level that Elway, Marino, Montana, Starr, Brady, Manning, Staubach, Aikman, Young and on and on. Not that he won't get there, however he has a road and he is not the highest rated QB in the playoffs and you see how little that meant.


----------



## antiquity

Papageorgio said:


> Wilson also has the highest career quarterback rating in the playoffs in NFL history; better than Aikman, better than Favre, better than Montana, Marino, Rodgers, Brees,
> 
> Wow, you finally see my point, congrats. Wilson, has a long way to go to be at the level that Elway, Marino, Montana, Starr, Brady, Manning, Staubach, Aikman, Young and on and on. Not that he won't get there, however he has a road and he is not the highest rated QB in the playoffs and you see how little that meant.



You and others are still trying to compare apples to oranges....Why are the quarterbacks you mentions above noted for? Passing...Wilson and the Seahawks are not a pass first team they are a run first team with a very above average defense and leading the league in rushing this year proves my point. You have to compare how a quarterback leads a team to victory...and, wow, sometimes passing isn't it. Sometimes teams who rushed big time like Pittsburgh with the steel curtain win out over passing.
Name the teams on your list of quarterbacks that lead the league in rushing


----------



## Papageorgio

antiquity said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wilson also has the highest career quarterback rating in the playoffs in NFL history; better than Aikman, better than Favre, better than Montana, Marino, Rodgers, Brees,
> 
> Wow, you finally see my point, congrats. Wilson, has a long way to go to be at the level that Elway, Marino, Montana, Starr, Brady, Manning, Staubach, Aikman, Young and on and on. Not that he won't get there, however he has a road and he is not the highest rated QB in the playoffs and you see how little that meant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You and others are still trying to compare apples to oranges....Why are the quarterbacks you mentions above noted for? Passing...Wilson and the Seahawks are not a pass first team they are a run first team with a very above average defense and leading the league in rushing this year proves my point. You have to compare how a quarterback leads a team to victory...and, wow, sometimes passing isn't it. Sometimes teams who rushed big time like Pittsburgh with the steel curtain win out over passing.
> Name the teams on your list of quarterbacks that lead the league in rushing
Click to expand...

Talk to blue, he is the one comparing Wilson to pocket passers, nice spin though.


----------



## antiquity

Papageorgio said:


> Wow, you finally see my point, congrats. *Wilson, has a long way to go to be at the level that Elway, Marino, Montana, Starr, Brady, Manning, Staubach, Aikman, Young *and on and on. Not that he won't get there, however he has a road and he is not the highest rated QB in the playoffs and you see how little that meant.





> Talk to blue, he is the one comparing Wilson to pocket passers, nice spin though.



Aren't you the one who said the above highlighted quote? And when I said *you and others.*.....


----------



## Papageorgio

antiquity said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you finally see my point, congrats. *Wilson, has a long way to go to be at the level that Elway, Marino, Montana, Starr, Brady, Manning, Staubach, Aikman, Young *and on and on. Not that he won't get there, however he has a road and he is not the highest rated QB in the playoffs and you see how little that meant.
Click to expand...

Talk to blue, he is the one comparing Wilson to pocket passers, nice spin though.[/QUOTE]

Aren't you the one who said the above highlighted quote? And when I said *you and others.*.....[/QUOTE]
Yes in response to blue and his love of the QB rating.


----------



## BluePhantom

antiquity said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wilson also has the highest career quarterback rating in the playoffs in NFL history; better than Aikman, better than Favre, better than Montana, Marino, Rodgers, Brees,
> 
> Wow, you finally see my point, congrats. Wilson, has a long way to go to be at the level that Elway, Marino, Montana, Starr, Brady, Manning, Staubach, Aikman, Young and on and on. Not that he won't get there, however he has a road and he is not the highest rated QB in the playoffs and you see how little that meant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You and others are still trying to compare apples to oranges....Why are the quarterbacks you mentions above noted for? Passing...Wilson and the Seahawks are not a pass first team they are a run first team with a very above average defense and leading the league in rushing this year proves my point. You have to compare how a quarterback leads a team to victory...and, wow, sometimes passing isn't it. Sometimes teams who rushed big time like Pittsburgh with the steel curtain win out over passing.
> Name the teams on your list of quarterbacks that lead the league in rushing
Click to expand...


Sometimes it does win out and frankly I prefer a rushing attack to a passing attack.  As I mentioned earlier, it's unusual for a QB to have a great deal of success without a powerful running game.  As I mentioned, Elway didn't win his Super Bowls until he had Terrell Davis (who I believe led the league in rushing or was at least close to it), Montana had Roger Craig, Edgerrin James helped Manning, Jim Kelly had Thurmond Thomas, Marshall Faulk was important for Kurt Warner, Troy Aikman had Emmitt Smith, etc.  Tony Romo had a great year...he also had DeMarco Murray who had a fantastic season as well.

There have certainly been exceptions.  Marino would be one, Elway's another.  Most of the time though a quarterback will have his best success when the running game is effective.


----------



## manifold

Peyton isn't even the best Manning.

True story


----------



## Papageorgio

antiquity said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wilson also has the highest career quarterback rating in the playoffs in NFL history; better than Aikman, better than Favre, better than Montana, Marino, Rodgers, Brees,
> 
> Wow, you finally see my point, congrats. Wilson, has a long way to go to be at the level that Elway, Marino, Montana, Starr, Brady, Manning, Staubach, Aikman, Young and on and on. Not that he won't get there, however he has a road and he is not the highest rated QB in the playoffs and you see how little that meant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You and others are still trying to compare apples to oranges....Why are the quarterbacks you mentions above noted for? Passing...Wilson and the Seahawks are not a pass first team they are a run first team with a very above average defense and leading the league in rushing this year proves my point. You have to compare how a quarterback leads a team to victory...and, wow, sometimes passing isn't it. Sometimes teams who rushed big time like Pittsburgh with the steel curtain win out over passing.
> Name the teams on your list of quarterbacks that lead the league in rushing
Click to expand...


Elway, Montana, Staubach.

Didn't check on the others, feel, free to look it up yourself.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Rocko said:


> Wait...I just saw this thread. Who in the world would think Russell Wilson will ever hold a candle to Peyton Manning?!?!?!!
> 
> No disrespect to Wilson - he's a good young player, but Peyton is one of the best to ever play the game!



yes during the REGULAR SEASON he is.But Peyton cant win the big game.the one superbowl he DID win came against a team that was carried there by their defense and special teams that year and it was a victory against a now washed up journeyman backup quarterback who I am not even sure if he is still playing or not that's how much a has been he is. Wilson beat the highest scoring offense of all time.that speaks volumns. He kind of hurt his future legacy in the game sunday but he can redeem himself in the superbowl which I have to believe he will.

Manning is a clone of Dan Marino.someone who put up impressive numbers and statisitics in regular season games but stunk up the join agains top notch competition in big games.

He will be bothered so much by his lame duck performance he will study and work extremely hard pouring over game film night and day practicing his mechanics to make sure he doesn't give another lame duck performance like that again in this game.

Peyton isn't even the best Manning.

True story 

very true indeed.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

BluePhantom said:


> Well.......I will write tomorrow but tonight is for celebration.  That was by far the worst game of Wilson's career....until it mattered and then he stuck it in their heart.  Most amazing comeback I have seen in years, if ever.    Like I said....I will write more another time.  Tonight is just for celebration.
> 
> GO HAWKS!!!!!!
> NFC CHAMPIONS!!!!!


yeah makes you wonder wtf was up with THAT? His mind was not into this game at all obviously and neither was kearses. the players clearly lost focus for this game before it started.where was the pass rush that had finally come alive the last 6 games of the season?

they reverted back to how they were playing in the middle of the year.and Baldwin fumbling the kickoff? wtf? this team was not focused and prepared at all.they play anything like that in the superbowl and it will be a long day and they will lose.

makes me wonder if Wilson was thinking about his divorce or something because he more than any of them,did not have his mind on the game at all for three and a half quarters.

He needs to have his mind on the game on supersunday or it will cost them this time.if they commit two back to back turnovers to start off,they will lose this time.The pats will get touchdowns out of them not mere field goals.


----------



## antiquity

manifold said:


> Peyton isn't even the best Manning.
> 
> True story



Then in your opinion is the best Manning? Archie who never played for a winning team in his career or Eli whose life time record is 62-52 with a RTG of 82, 185 picks and 86 fumbles.

True story.....


----------



## manifold

antiquity said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Peyton isn't even the best Manning.
> 
> True story
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then in your opinion is the best Manning? Archie who never played for a winning team in his career or Eli whose life time record is 62-52 with a RTG of 82, 185 picks and 86 fumbles.
> 
> True story.....
Click to expand...


Archie and Eli tied for best, Peyton a distant third.


----------



## HUGGY

manifold said:


> antiquity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Peyton isn't even the best Manning.
> 
> True story
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then in your opinion is the best Manning? Archie who never played for a winning team in his career or Eli whose life time record is 62-52 with a RTG of 82, 185 picks and 86 fumbles.
> 
> True story.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Archie and Eli tied for best, Peyton a distant third.
Click to expand...


Peyton is the best QB EVAAHHHH for the same reason the Packers were the better team on Sunday.  He doesn't REALLY have to back it up with RINGS!!!  He doesn't REALLY have to win championships.  He is Peyton fuckin Manning for Christ SAKES !!!


----------



## LA RAM FAN

manifold said:


> antiquity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Peyton isn't even the best Manning.
> 
> True story
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then in your opinion is the best Manning? Archie who never played for a winning team in his career or Eli whose life time record is 62-52 with a RTG of 82, 185 picks and 86 fumbles.
> 
> True story.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Archie and Eli tied for best, Peyton a distant third.
Click to expand...


Don't remember archie but Eli is easily ahead of Peyton regardless of how crappy he has been the last few years.Eli did not get scared and panic in big games.He beat EASILY one of the top five greatest quarterbacks to ever play the game TWICE!!!. Look who the QB was that manning beat when he won the superbowl.a washed up has been backup now who I am not even sure is still in pro football now,big wow. when he had to face top notch completion in the big game facing GREAT quarterbacks Brees and Wilson,manning couldn't cut the mustard so its a no brainer that Eli is better.


----------



## Montrovant

HUGGY said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> antiquity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Peyton isn't even the best Manning.
> 
> True story
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then in your opinion is the best Manning? Archie who never played for a winning team in his career or Eli whose life time record is 62-52 with a RTG of 82, 185 picks and 86 fumbles.
> 
> True story.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Archie and Eli tied for best, Peyton a distant third.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Peyton is the best QB EVAAHHHH for the same reason the Packers were the better team on Sunday.  He doesn't REALLY have to back it up with RINGS!!!  He doesn't REALLY have to win championships.  He is Peyton fuckin Manning for Christ SAKES !!!
Click to expand...


Rings are far from the only factor in what makes a great QB.

That said, Manning's lack of playoff success will always keep him from the top of the all time list.


----------



## Treeshepherd

Sometimes you get lucky, but you still need to capitalize on luck. Onside kick bounced off of #86 face. Seahawks played aggressive in OT and won. I felt bad for cheeseheads. 

Colts started out okay. Fair catch bounced off of #16s face. Several dropped balls from Luck. Bad passes too. I wonder if the game would have been much closer if you replayed the first 10 minutes. Things really snowballed for NE and I had to turn off the game.


----------



## Papageorgio

9/11 inside job said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> antiquity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Peyton isn't even the best Manning.
> 
> True story
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then in your opinion is the best Manning? Archie who never played for a winning team in his career or Eli whose life time record is 62-52 with a RTG of 82, 185 picks and 86 fumbles.
> 
> True story.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Archie and Eli tied for best, Peyton a distant third.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't remember archie but Eli is easily ahead of Peyton regardless of how crappy he has been the last few years.Eli did not get scared and panic in big games.He beat EASILY one of the top five greatest quarterbacks to ever play the game TWICE!!!. Look who the QB was that manning beat when he won the superbowl.a washed up has been backup now who I am not even sure is still in pro football now,big wow. when he had to face top notch completion in the big game facing GREAT quarterbacks Brees and Wilson,manning couldn't cut the mustard so its a no brainer that Eli is better.
Click to expand...

How many Super Bowls has Brees won?


----------



## HUGGY

Treeshepherd said:


> Sometimes you get lucky, but you still need to capitalize on luck. Onside kick bounced off of #86 face. Seahawks played aggressive in OT and won. *I felt bad for cheeseheads. *
> 
> Colts started out okay. Fair catch bounced off of #16s face. Several dropped balls from Luck. Bad passes too. I wonder if the game would have been much closer if you replayed the first 10 minutes. Things really snowballed for NE and I had to turn off the game.



Me too.


----------



## BluePhantom

Montrovant said:


> Rings are far from the only factor in what makes a great QB.



True...or just a great player in general.  I think some of it though is just the "mystique".  For example, Ricky Watters has Hall of Fame stats.  He has the yards, he has the touchdowns, he has the rings, he has the awards, but he will probably never be in the Hall of Fame because he just never had that mystique about him where people said "oh wow this guy is something special".  From a purely statistical standpoint Watters was a "great" player although he never gets recognized for it.

Manning has that mystique, Wilson has it right now but he needs to sustain it and probably at some point in his career he will have to re-invent himself (when he gets too old to run like he does now), Marino had it, Elway had it, Montana had it, Warren Moon had it, etc.

That being said it's hard to make the Hall of Fame without a ring in today's NFL.  Those who have (Dickerson, Thurmond Thomas, Marino, etc) are in because they have such ridiculous stats that you can't keep them out.  Rings sure help and the more you have the better your odds.  If Lynch, for example, was to get his second ring in a couple weeks, he is starting to make a case for the Hall of Fame. Even though he doesn't have the stats quite yet to make a solid case, give him 3 more years and a second ring, and he would have all he needs to make a strong argument. .


----------



## antiquity

manifold said:


> antiquity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Peyton isn't even the best Manning.
> 
> True story
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then in your opinion is the best Manning? Archie who never played for a winning team in his career or Eli whose life time record is 62-52 with a RTG of 82, 185 picks and 86 fumbles.
> 
> True story.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Archie and Eli tied for best, Peyton a distant third.
Click to expand...


ROTHFLMAO


----------



## Rocko

antiquity said:


> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wait...I just saw this thread. Who in the world would think Russell Wilson will ever hold a candle to Peyton Manning?!?!?!!
> 
> No disrespect to Wilson - he's a good young player, but Peyton is one of the best to ever play the game!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With one Super Bowl ring.....
Click to expand...


Team sport. I think if peyton had RW type defenses he would have more rings.


----------



## HUGGY

Rocko said:


> antiquity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wait...I just saw this thread. Who in the world would think Russell Wilson will ever hold a candle to Peyton Manning?!?!?!!
> 
> No disrespect to Wilson - he's a good young player, but Peyton is one of the best to ever play the game!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With one Super Bowl ring.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Team sport. I think if peyton had RW type defenses he would have more rings.
Click to expand...


It's good to be Russell Wilson.


----------



## manifold

Rocko said:


> Team sport. I think if peyton had RW type defenses he would have more rings.



His teams never had enough money to fund a good defense after he was done gouging them for record setting salaries.


----------



## Rocko

manifold said:


> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> Team sport. I think if peyton had RW type defenses he would have more rings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His teams never had enough money to fund a good defense after he was done gouging them for record setting salaries.
Click to expand...


When RW's rookie contract expires he's going to gouge the Seahawks for a record breaking contract.


----------



## HUGGY

Rocko said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> Team sport. I think if peyton had RW type defenses he would have more rings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His teams never had enough money to fund a good defense after he was done gouging them for record setting salaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When RW's rookie contract expires he's going to gouge the Seahawks for a record breaking contract.
Click to expand...


Wilson has EARNED the right to expect a high salary.


----------



## Papageorgio

Rocko said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> Team sport. I think if peyton had RW type defenses he would have more rings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His teams never had enough money to fund a good defense after he was done gouging them for record setting salaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When RW's rookie contract expires he's going to gouge the Seahawks for a record breaking contract.
Click to expand...

No he won't, RW is different, he cares more about team and the Seahawks future and championships, he won't want a big contract. He will take what he has been making because he loves Seattle and the fans so much. In fact when Golden Tate had an affair with his wife he got rid of his wife so they could try to keep Golden Tate. He has no agent who gets a percentage of his contract. In fact he won't even want to be paid. He is a special player that is going to forego money.


----------



## Rocko

HUGGY said:


> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> Team sport. I think if peyton had RW type defenses he would have more rings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His teams never had enough money to fund a good defense after he was done gouging them for record setting salaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When RW's rookie contract expires he's going to gouge the Seahawks for a record breaking contract.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson has EARNED the right to expect a high salary.
Click to expand...


And Peyton Manning didnt? Get real.


----------



## HUGGY

Rocko said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> Team sport. I think if peyton had RW type defenses he would have more rings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His teams never had enough money to fund a good defense after he was done gouging them for record setting salaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When RW's rookie contract expires he's going to gouge the Seahawks for a record breaking contract.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson has EARNED the right to expect a high salary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Peyton Manning didnt? Get real.
Click to expand...


Manning was a first round draft pick.  He didn't have to prove anything to get paid.


----------



## Papageorgio

Rocko said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> Team sport. I think if peyton had RW type defenses he would have more rings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His teams never had enough money to fund a good defense after he was done gouging them for record setting salaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When RW's rookie contract expires he's going to gouge the Seahawks for a record breaking contract.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson has EARNED the right to expect a high salary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Peyton Manning didnt? Get real.
Click to expand...


What do you expect Wilson to get, I'm think the 20 mill range, which is why they won't be able to resign Lynch and a couple of other players.


----------



## Rocko

HUGGY said:


> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> Team sport. I think if peyton had RW type defenses he would have more rings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His teams never had enough money to fund a good defense after he was done gouging them for record setting salaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When RW's rookie contract expires he's going to gouge the Seahawks for a record breaking contract.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson has EARNED the right to expect a high salary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Peyton Manning didnt? Get real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning was a first round draft pick.  He didn't have to prove anything to get paid.
Click to expand...


That's insane.  Manning has proven himself Waaaaaaaay more than RW has ever proven himself. Wilson is not, and will never be in, the same stratosphere as Manning.


----------



## HUGGY

Papageorgio said:


> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> Team sport. I think if peyton had RW type defenses he would have more rings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His teams never had enough money to fund a good defense after he was done gouging them for record setting salaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When RW's rookie contract expires he's going to gouge the Seahawks for a record breaking contract.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson has EARNED the right to expect a high salary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Peyton Manning didnt? Get real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do you expect Wilson to get, I'm think the 20 mill range, which is why they won't be able to resign Lynch and a couple of other players.
Click to expand...


That's what his market value is.  He wants to three peat though.  He keeps saying he's all about trying to be the best ever.  He's smart.  He knows he can't do it by himself.  He will probably put a contract together something like Kaepernick's that is Cap friendly. He WILL get his money but he'll get it in a way that does the least amount of damage to the team.


----------



## Rocko

Papageorgio said:


> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> Team sport. I think if peyton had RW type defenses he would have more rings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His teams never had enough money to fund a good defense after he was done gouging them for record setting salaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When RW's rookie contract expires he's going to gouge the Seahawks for a record breaking contract.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson has EARNED the right to expect a high salary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Peyton Manning didnt? Get real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do you expect Wilson to get, I'm think the 20 mill range, which is why they won't be able to resign Lynch and a couple of other players.
Click to expand...


Exactly! With today's salary cap that's what happens when your QB is due to get paid.


----------



## HUGGY

Rocko said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> His teams never had enough money to fund a good defense after he was done gouging them for record setting salaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When RW's rookie contract expires he's going to gouge the Seahawks for a record breaking contract.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson has EARNED the right to expect a high salary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Peyton Manning didnt? Get real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning was a first round draft pick.  He didn't have to prove anything to get paid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's insane.  Manning has proven himself Waaaaaaaay more than RW has ever proven himself. Wilson is not, and will never be in, the same stratosphere as Manning.
Click to expand...


Ya...he sure showed it at home against the Colts two weeks ago.


----------



## Papageorgio

HUGGY said:


> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> Team sport. I think if peyton had RW type defenses he would have more rings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His teams never had enough money to fund a good defense after he was done gouging them for record setting salaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When RW's rookie contract expires he's going to gouge the Seahawks for a record breaking contract.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson has EARNED the right to expect a high salary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Peyton Manning didnt? Get real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning was a first round draft pick.  He didn't have to prove anything to get paid.
Click to expand...


Bullshit!


----------



## Rocko

HUGGY said:


> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> When RW's rookie contract expires he's going to gouge the Seahawks for a record breaking contract.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wilson has EARNED the right to expect a high salary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Peyton Manning didnt? Get real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning was a first round draft pick.  He didn't have to prove anything to get paid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's insane.  Manning has proven himself Waaaaaaaay more than RW has ever proven himself. Wilson is not, and will never be in, the same stratosphere as Manning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya...he sure showed it at home against the Colts two weeks ago.
Click to expand...


Youre out of your mind. Manning is almost 40 YEARS OLD AND HE WAS PLAYING HURT AND HE'S STILL BETTER THAN WILSON!


----------



## HUGGY

Rocko said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> His teams never had enough money to fund a good defense after he was done gouging them for record setting salaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When RW's rookie contract expires he's going to gouge the Seahawks for a record breaking contract.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson has EARNED the right to expect a high salary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Peyton Manning didnt? Get real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do you expect Wilson to get, I'm think the 20 mill range, which is why they won't be able to resign Lynch and a couple of other players.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly! With today's salary cap that's what happens when your QB is due to get paid.
Click to expand...


Nothing much really.  Seattle has been preparing for Russell's payday for three years. Schneider is the smartest GM in the NFL.  Allen is smart also.  Microsoft didn't do so bad when he was running the money.  I'm going to trust that Paul Allen and John Schneider will sit down with Russell and they will bang something out that will benefit all parties.


----------



## Papageorgio

HUGGY said:


> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> When RW's rookie contract expires he's going to gouge the Seahawks for a record breaking contract.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wilson has EARNED the right to expect a high salary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Peyton Manning didnt? Get real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning was a first round draft pick.  He didn't have to prove anything to get paid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's insane.  Manning has proven himself Waaaaaaaay more than RW has ever proven himself. Wilson is not, and will never be in, the same stratosphere as Manning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya...he sure showed it at home against the Colts two weeks ago.
Click to expand...


Wilson will not be playing at Manning's age.


----------



## HUGGY

Papageorgio said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> His teams never had enough money to fund a good defense after he was done gouging them for record setting salaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When RW's rookie contract expires he's going to gouge the Seahawks for a record breaking contract.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson has EARNED the right to expect a high salary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Peyton Manning didnt? Get real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning was a first round draft pick.  He didn't have to prove anything to get paid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit!
Click to expand...


From GOOGLE:

"The main story of the 1998 NFL *draft* was, of course, the decision by the Indianapolis Colts to select Tennessee quarterback *Peyton Manning* over Washington State quarterback Ryan Leaf with the first overall pick."

NOT bullshit.


----------



## HUGGY

Papageorgio said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wilson has EARNED the right to expect a high salary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Peyton Manning didnt? Get real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning was a first round draft pick.  He didn't have to prove anything to get paid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's insane.  Manning has proven himself Waaaaaaaay more than RW has ever proven himself. Wilson is not, and will never be in, the same stratosphere as Manning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya...he sure showed it at home against the Colts two weeks ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson will not be playing at Manning's age.
Click to expand...


So?


----------



## Rocko

HUGGY said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> When RW's rookie contract expires he's going to gouge the Seahawks for a record breaking contract.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wilson has EARNED the right to expect a high salary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Peyton Manning didnt? Get real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning was a first round draft pick.  He didn't have to prove anything to get paid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From GOOGLE:
> 
> "The main story of the 1998 NFL *draft* was, of course, the decision by the Indianapolis Colts to select Tennessee quarterback *Peyton Manning* over Washington State quarterback Ryan Leaf with the first overall pick."
> 
> NOT bullshit.
Click to expand...


And?


----------



## Rocko

HUGGY said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Peyton Manning didnt? Get real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manning was a first round draft pick.  He didn't have to prove anything to get paid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's insane.  Manning has proven himself Waaaaaaaay more than RW has ever proven himself. Wilson is not, and will never be in, the same stratosphere as Manning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya...he sure showed it at home against the Colts two weeks ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson will not be playing at Manning's age.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?
Click to expand...


Wilson won't have half the career Manning has had.


----------



## HUGGY

Rocko said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wilson has EARNED the right to expect a high salary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Peyton Manning didnt? Get real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning was a first round draft pick.  He didn't have to prove anything to get paid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's insane.  Manning has proven himself Waaaaaaaay more than RW has ever proven himself. Wilson is not, and will never be in, the same stratosphere as Manning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya...he sure showed it at home against the Colts two weeks ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Youre out of your mind. Manning is almost 40 YEARS OLD AND HE WAS PLAYING HURT AND HE'S STILL BETTER THAN WILSON!
Click to expand...


Ya...THAT's why he is sitting home crying.  Wilson was crying after his victory last weekend.  He even cries better than Peyton...


----------



## Papageorgio

HUGGY said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Peyton Manning didnt? Get real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manning was a first round draft pick.  He didn't have to prove anything to get paid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's insane.  Manning has proven himself Waaaaaaaay more than RW has ever proven himself. Wilson is not, and will never be in, the same stratosphere as Manning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya...he sure showed it at home against the Colts two weeks ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson will not be playing at Manning's age.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?
Click to expand...

When Wilson gets to Manning's age, he will be retired for several years, he won't be able to keep a job in the NFL.


----------



## Papageorgio

HUGGY said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> When RW's rookie contract expires he's going to gouge the Seahawks for a record breaking contract.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wilson has EARNED the right to expect a high salary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Peyton Manning didnt? Get real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning was a first round draft pick.  He didn't have to prove anything to get paid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From GOOGLE:
> 
> "The main story of the 1998 NFL *draft* was, of course, the decision by the Indianapolis Colts to select Tennessee quarterback *Peyton Manning* over Washington State quarterback Ryan Leaf with the first overall pick."
> 
> NOT bullshit.
Click to expand...


However, he had to earn every contract payday, just like Wilson.


----------



## HUGGY

Rocko said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manning was a first round draft pick.  He didn't have to prove anything to get paid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's insane.  Manning has proven himself Waaaaaaaay more than RW has ever proven himself. Wilson is not, and will never be in, the same stratosphere as Manning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya...he sure showed it at home against the Colts two weeks ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson will not be playing at Manning's age.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson won't have half the career Manning has had.
Click to expand...


But in a week and a half he will have twice as many SB rings..    Go figure!


----------



## Rocko

HUGGY said:


> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's insane.  Manning has proven himself Waaaaaaaay more than RW has ever proven himself. Wilson is not, and will never be in, the same stratosphere as Manning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ya...he sure showed it at home against the Colts two weeks ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson will not be playing at Manning's age.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson won't have half the career Manning has had.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But in a week and a half he will have twice as many SB rings..    Go figure!
Click to expand...


False.


----------



## HUGGY

Papageorgio said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manning was a first round draft pick.  He didn't have to prove anything to get paid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's insane.  Manning has proven himself Waaaaaaaay more than RW has ever proven himself. Wilson is not, and will never be in, the same stratosphere as Manning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya...he sure showed it at home against the Colts two weeks ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson will not be playing at Manning's age.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When Wilson gets to Manning's age, he will be retired for several years, he won't be able to keep a job in the NFL.
Click to expand...


When Wilson is Manning's age he will probably be a part owner in an NFL football franchise...probably the Seahawks.  In ten years Paul Allen will be looking for someone to take over some of the responsibilities.  He adores Wilson.


----------



## HUGGY

Rocko said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya...he sure showed it at home against the Colts two weeks ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wilson will not be playing at Manning's age.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson won't have half the career Manning has had.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But in a week and a half he will have twice as many SB rings..    Go figure!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> False.
Click to expand...


Hold that thought Einstein.


----------



## Rocko

HUGGY said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's insane.  Manning has proven himself Waaaaaaaay more than RW has ever proven himself. Wilson is not, and will never be in, the same stratosphere as Manning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ya...he sure showed it at home against the Colts two weeks ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson will not be playing at Manning's age.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When Wilson gets to Manning's age, he will be retired for several years, he won't be able to keep a job in the NFL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When Wilson is Manning's age he will probably be a part owner in an NFL football franchise...probably the Seahawks.  In ten years Paul Allen will be looking for someone to take over some of the responsibilities.  He adores Wilson.
Click to expand...


For him to make that much money he would have to earn superstar endorsements, Whigh he won't cus he's not a superstar. The only reason why he's in the spotlight now is his team is a super bowl team, which won't be the case forever.


----------



## Papageorgio

HUGGY said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's insane.  Manning has proven himself Waaaaaaaay more than RW has ever proven himself. Wilson is not, and will never be in, the same stratosphere as Manning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ya...he sure showed it at home against the Colts two weeks ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson will not be playing at Manning's age.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When Wilson gets to Manning's age, he will be retired for several years, he won't be able to keep a job in the NFL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When Wilson is Manning's age he will probably be a part owner in an NFL football franchise...probably the Seahawks.  In ten years Paul Allen will be looking for someone to take over some of the responsibilities.  He adores Wilson.
Click to expand...


No he won't. You are dreaming.


----------



## Rocko

Papageorgio said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya...he sure showed it at home against the Colts two weeks ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wilson will not be playing at Manning's age.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When Wilson gets to Manning's age, he will be retired for several years, he won't be able to keep a job in the NFL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When Wilson is Manning's age he will probably be a part owner in an NFL football franchise...probably the Seahawks.  In ten years Paul Allen will be looking for someone to take over some of the responsibilities.  He adores Wilson.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No he won't. You are dreaming.
Click to expand...


How many athletes really have a chance at being owners? Now you're getting into Michael Jordan, Derek Jeter company. Wis on is nowhere near those guys.


----------



## HUGGY

Rocko said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wilson will not be playing at Manning's age.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When Wilson gets to Manning's age, he will be retired for several years, he won't be able to keep a job in the NFL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When Wilson is Manning's age he will probably be a part owner in an NFL football franchise...probably the Seahawks.  In ten years Paul Allen will be looking for someone to take over some of the responsibilities.  He adores Wilson.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No he won't. You are dreaming.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many athletes really have a chance at being owners? Now you're getting into Michael Jordan, Derek Jeter company. Wis on is nowhere near those guys.
Click to expand...


He's stated that is one of his long term goals.  I did say "Partner".  Seattle's franchise is unique in that Allen is the primary owner.  I  just don't doubt Wilson will work hard toward that and any other goal he sets out to accomplish.  So far betting against him has been shown to be foolish.


----------



## Papageorgio

HUGGY said:


> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> 
> 
> When Wilson gets to Manning's age, he will be retired for several years, he won't be able to keep a job in the NFL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When Wilson is Manning's age he will probably be a part owner in an NFL football franchise...probably the Seahawks.  In ten years Paul Allen will be looking for someone to take over some of the responsibilities.  He adores Wilson.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No he won't. You are dreaming.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many athletes really have a chance at being owners? Now you're getting into Michael Jordan, Derek Jeter company. Wis on is nowhere near those guys.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's stated that is one of his long term goals.  I did say "Partner".  Seattle's franchise is unique in that Allen is the primary owner.  I  just don't doubt Wilson will work hard toward that and any other goal he sets out to accomplish.  So far betting against him has been shown to be foolish.
Click to expand...


He won't be a partner, most any athlete that wants to be a partner isn't. Very few, the owners know how to run a business, something Wilson nor many athletes do.

Elway brought how many Super Bowls, filled how many seats and he is not a partner. It doesn't happen and Paul Allen didn't get rich by being stupid.


----------



## antiquity

Rocko said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wilson has EARNED the right to expect a high salary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Peyton Manning didnt? Get real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning was a first round draft pick.  He didn't have to prove anything to get paid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's insane.  Manning has proven himself Waaaaaaaay more than RW has ever proven himself. Wilson is not, and will never be in, the same stratosphere as Manning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya...he sure showed it at home against the Colts two weeks ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Youre out of your mind. Manning is almost 40 YEARS OLD AND HE WAS PLAYING HURT AND HE'S STILL BETTER THAN WILSON!
Click to expand...


How so? Wilson is going back to the Super Bowl and Manning is sitting on his ass in front of his megaTV.


----------



## Papageorgio

antiquity said:


> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Peyton Manning didnt? Get real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manning was a first round draft pick.  He didn't have to prove anything to get paid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's insane.  Manning has proven himself Waaaaaaaay more than RW has ever proven himself. Wilson is not, and will never be in, the same stratosphere as Manning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya...he sure showed it at home against the Colts two weeks ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Youre out of your mind. Manning is almost 40 YEARS OLD AND HE WAS PLAYING HURT AND HE'S STILL BETTER THAN WILSON!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How so? Wilson is going back to the Super Bowl and Manning is sitting on his ass in front of his megaTV.
Click to expand...


Then Seattle's back up QB is just as good as Wilson because he is going to the Super Bowl. Seattle going to start him?


----------



## HUGGY

Papageorgio said:


> antiquity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manning was a first round draft pick.  He didn't have to prove anything to get paid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's insane.  Manning has proven himself Waaaaaaaay more than RW has ever proven himself. Wilson is not, and will never be in, the same stratosphere as Manning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya...he sure showed it at home against the Colts two weeks ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Youre out of your mind. Manning is almost 40 YEARS OLD AND HE WAS PLAYING HURT AND HE'S STILL BETTER THAN WILSON!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How so? Wilson is going back to the Super Bowl and Manning is sitting on his ass in front of his megaTV.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then Seattle's back up QB is just as good as Wilson because he is going to the Super Bowl. Seattle going to start him?
Click to expand...


How can anyone argue with reasoning like that?


----------



## antiquity

HUGGY said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> antiquity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's insane.  Manning has proven himself Waaaaaaaay more than RW has ever proven himself. Wilson is not, and will never be in, the same stratosphere as Manning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ya...he sure showed it at home against the Colts two weeks ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Youre out of your mind. Manning is almost 40 YEARS OLD AND HE WAS PLAYING HURT AND HE'S STILL BETTER THAN WILSON!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How so? Wilson is going back to the Super Bowl and Manning is sitting on his ass in front of his megaTV.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then Seattle's back up QB is just as good as Wilson because he is going to the Super Bowl. Seattle going to start him?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can anyone argue with reasoning like that?
Click to expand...


I am still trying to figure that one out.....Come on Papageorigio...explain?


----------



## Papageorgio

antiquity said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> antiquity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya...he sure showed it at home against the Colts two weeks ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Youre out of your mind. Manning is almost 40 YEARS OLD AND HE WAS PLAYING HURT AND HE'S STILL BETTER THAN WILSON!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How so? Wilson is going back to the Super Bowl and Manning is sitting on his ass in front of his megaTV.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then Seattle's back up QB is just as good as Wilson because he is going to the Super Bowl. Seattle going to start him?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can anyone argue with reasoning like that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am still trying to figure that one out.....Come on Papageorigio...explain?
Click to expand...


It's your logic, you implied Manning is not as good as Wilson because Manning will be home and Wilson is playing in the Super Bowl. Wilson's back up must also be better than Manning because he will be playing in the Super Bowl. 

Since both QB's are playing in the Super Bowl, they must be equal, otherwise they'd be home.


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## Rocko

antiquity said:


> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Peyton Manning didnt? Get real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manning was a first round draft pick.  He didn't have to prove anything to get paid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's insane.  Manning has proven himself Waaaaaaaay more than RW has ever proven himself. Wilson is not, and will never be in, the same stratosphere as Manning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya...he sure showed it at home against the Colts two weeks ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Youre out of your mind. Manning is almost 40 YEARS OLD AND HE WAS PLAYING HURT AND HE'S STILL BETTER THAN WILSON!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How so? Wilson is going back to the Super Bowl and Manning is sitting on his ass in front of his megaTV.
Click to expand...


I can easily name 10 QB's (probably more) better than RW who will be watching the game from home.


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## Papageorgio

Rocko said:


> antiquity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manning was a first round draft pick.  He didn't have to prove anything to get paid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's insane.  Manning has proven himself Waaaaaaaay more than RW has ever proven himself. Wilson is not, and will never be in, the same stratosphere as Manning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya...he sure showed it at home against the Colts two weeks ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Youre out of your mind. Manning is almost 40 YEARS OLD AND HE WAS PLAYING HURT AND HE'S STILL BETTER THAN WILSON!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How so? Wilson is going back to the Super Bowl and Manning is sitting on his ass in front of his megaTV.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can easily name 10 QB's (probably more) better than RW who will be watching the game from home.
Click to expand...

You don't understand, Wilson is Seattle's Savior, he is the reason they get up everyday. If Wilson wasn't there they'd be 0-16, their running game sucks, except for Wilson, their defense sucks, the offensive line is terrible, the have no receivers, hell Huggy has Wilson being a partner! Now, you can't compare him to any QB otherwise you get an apple to orange response, which means no one quantify what he does. 

Andrew Luck plays we no real offensive line, the Colts really don't have a defense and they really don't have a running. I would say trade the Hawks and the Colts straight up except for QB's and I would bet the Colts would win it all, not even close.


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## Rocko

Papageorgio said:


> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> antiquity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's insane.  Manning has proven himself Waaaaaaaay more than RW has ever proven himself. Wilson is not, and will never be in, the same stratosphere as Manning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ya...he sure showed it at home against the Colts two weeks ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Youre out of your mind. Manning is almost 40 YEARS OLD AND HE WAS PLAYING HURT AND HE'S STILL BETTER THAN WILSON!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How so? Wilson is going back to the Super Bowl and Manning is sitting on his ass in front of his megaTV.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can easily name 10 QB's (probably more) better than RW who will be watching the game from home.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't understand, Wilson is Seattle's Savior, he is the reason they get up everyday. If Wilson wasn't there they'd be 0-16, their running game sucks, except for Wilson, their defense sucks, the offensive line is terrible, the have no receivers, hell Huggy has Wilson being a partner! Now, you can't compare him to any QB otherwise you get an apple to orange response, which means no one quantify what he does.
> 
> Andrew Luck plays we no real offensive line, the Colts really don't have a defense and they really don't have a running. I would say trade the Hawks and the Colts straight up except for QB's and I would bet the Colts would win it all, not even close.
Click to expand...


I can't believe wilson has this many fanboys. I mean he's pretty good but nowhere near as good as these guys think.


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## manifold

They're both 1-1 in the Superbowl and both their losses were sealed by them throwing a pick.

coincidence?


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