# Us Smokers Rule!



## KittenKoder (Sep 25, 2008)

Burn In.swf (humor, NSFW)

I wish I could spit fire to.

_Moved from the Humor section 'cuz it got unfunny.
~Abelian Sea_


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## Anguille (Sep 25, 2008)

Looks like it was sponsored by Camel and Marboro and aimed at teens. 

I can't tell if that was Shogun at the bar or if he was the guy at the table with his junk hanging out.


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## KittenKoder (Sep 25, 2008)

*smirks* You sound like one of those anti-smoker freaks. It was a joke cartoon made by people who stand on neither side of any issue. They just make fun of things, period. Don't read more into things than there is, Camel and Marlboro just happen to be the most well known companies so it's only natural to use their adverts.


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## Luissa (Sep 25, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> *smirks* You sound like one of those anti-smoker freaks. It was a joke cartoon made by people who stand on neither side of any issue. They just make fun of things, period. Don't read more into things than there is, Camel and Marlboro just happen to be the most well known companies so it's only natural to use their adverts.


I am a smoker, thought it was funny! And also like the fact you can't smoke in bars in my state most of the time! For one you smoke less and save money! I hate it when it is freezing outside! Like Bill Mahr says " You guys wonder why smokers are sick all the time." We have to stand outside all the time.
It is nice to be able to bring your kid to a bowling alley without it being full of smoke, I am smoker but I don't like smoke around my kid.


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## Anguille (Sep 25, 2008)

I'm a pink lunger. Shogun hasn't told you??!!

The graphics were good, I'll grant you that.


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## Anguille (Sep 25, 2008)

Luissa27 said:


> I am a smoker, thought it was funny! And also like the fact you can't smoke in bars in my state most of the time! For one you smoke less and save money! I hate it when it is freezing outside! Like Bill Mahr says " You guys wonder why smokers are sick all the time." We have to stand outside all the time.
> It is nice to be able to bring your kid to a bowling alley without it being full of smoke, I am smoker but I don't like smoke around my kid.



As a former bartender, I thank you for your thoughtfulness.


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## KittenKoder (Sep 25, 2008)

Luissa27 said:


> I am a smoker, thought it was funny! And also like the fact you can't smoke in bars in my state most of the time! For one you smoke less and save money! I hate it when it is freezing outside! Like Bill Mahr says " You guys wonder why smokers are sick all the time." We have to stand outside all the time.
> It is nice to be able to bring your kid to a bowling alley without it being full of smoke, I am smoker but I don't like smoke around my kid.



I disagree with forcing it as law, but that's the only point I disagree with the anti-smoker freaks. I didn't accuse anyone of being an anti-smoker freak, it just sounded like one. Being for some non-smoking places doesn't make you a freak, just means you have an opinion. The freaks are the ones that push their opinions into laws.


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## Anguille (Sep 25, 2008)

I'm not going to get into it tonight but did you ever consider that bar employees deserve the same workplace safety protections that any other type of employee gets? They aren't second class citizens just because they are servants.


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## Luissa (Sep 25, 2008)

I also read this story about a bar in Ireland that now pipes in the smell of smoke! Before the smell of smoke was hiding the other smells! After this I did notice bars don't always smell good anyways!
The day are smoking ban went into place it was 10 degrees outside, I hated it that day but now most bars have warmers, covered patios. Quite a few have outdoor areas where you can bring your drinks.


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## KittenKoder (Sep 25, 2008)

Anguille said:


> I'm not going to get into it tonight but did you ever consider that bar employees deserve the same workplace safety protections that any other type of employee gets? They aren't second class citizens just because they are servants.



Yeah, but a law is still the wrong way to go. I know a LOT of people who work in bars that smoke as well. The difference is to take the owners freedom of choice away is the same as to take the freedom away from anyone else. If you want government regulation, fine, then they shouldn't have to pay taxes either.


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## Luissa (Sep 25, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> Yeah, but a law is still the wrong way to go. I know a LOT of people who work in bars that smoke as well. The difference is to take the owners freedom of choice away is the same as to take the freedom away from anyone else. If you want government regulation, fine, then they shouldn't have to pay taxes either.


I somewhat agree with you! For two bingo halls closed down due to the law because people just went to the indian casino where you could smoke. These two halls raised money for Big Brothers and Sister, and a Guild school which is for children born with birth deffects.


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## KittenKoder (Sep 25, 2008)

Luissa27 said:


> I somewhat agree with you! For two bingo halls closed down due to the law because people just went to the indian casino where you could smoke. These two halls raised money for Big Brothers and Sister, and a Guild school which is for children born with birth deffects.



Now a law saying that they have to offer a separation, that's okay, like an equal smoking and non-smoking part when they are able without drastic rebuilding, that's cool. But forcing one ideas on another is wrong no matter the reasoning.

For an example of almost equal weight:
Red Meat has proven to be very unhealthy, and, even without skewing the numbers, is responsible for many health problems. Should all businesses be told they can no longer serve this harmful substance?

Also, South Park pointed out one fact that even I did not notice, the leaders of the people who are pointing fingers at smoking are obese, isn't that a more serious problem that is more easily fixed? (P.S. I don't believe in the obesity scare either)


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## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

I figured i'd better go ahead and open this thread because I knew damn well Ang would bring up my name.. and what do you know.. second post.


first, i can't seem to see the flash video.  so...

second, I was a bartender too, Ang.  I understand what it means to provide a location that clients will want to go to when they don't have to.  If you want to work at a non-smoking bar then great.  Go do that.  Your non-smoking clients can come with you.  Yet I can show you how the application of draconian policies like the ones that you enjoy not only fail to reduce smoking but do nothing but drive business out of bars.  We have two examples of that exact thing happen in Missouri.  Maryville, where I went to school, and Columbia, where I now live.  I can tell you that many people refuse to go to bars just to patronize a place that charges .75 cents over the price per beer of a six pack taken to a party that allows smoking.  Maryville rescinded it's smoking ban on bars.  I expect columbia to do the same.  If you don't want to work in a smokey bay then dont.  No one forces you to take any job.  


you goddamn pink lunger.


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## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> Yeah, but a law is still the wrong way to go. I know a LOT of people who work in bars that smoke as well. The difference is to take the owners freedom of choice away is the same as to take the freedom away from anyone else. If you want government regulation, fine, then they shouldn't have to pay taxes either.



Your "freedom" stops at my nose.
I know a lot of people who smoke, work in bars and are very glad those laws are in place.

Shall we just remove all non smoking laws and let people smoke anywhere they like? Hospitals, schools, libraries?
Why should employees in those places be protected, if food service employees don't deserve protections?


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## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

Luissa27 said:


> I somewhat agree with you! For two bingo halls closed down due to the law because people just went to the indian casino where you could smoke. These two halls raised money for Big Brothers and Sister, and a Guild school which is for children born with birth deffects.



The opposite happened in my area. restaurants and bars reported a 15% increase in customers.
In any case, does the means justify the ends? Should those bingo halls have remained places where employees were denied protections so that a charity could benefit?


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## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> I figured i'd better go ahead and open this thread because I knew damn well Ang would bring up my name.. and what do you know.. second post.
> 
> 
> first, i can't seem to see the flash video.  so...
> ...


Blow it out your bunghole.


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## KittenKoder (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> Your "freedom" stops at my nose.
> I know a lot of people who smoke, work in bars and are very glad those laws are in place.
> 
> Shall we just remove all non smoking laws and let people smoke anywhere they like? Hospitals, schools, libraries?
> Why should employees in those places be protected, if food service employees don't deserve protections?



Difference: Bars are private property while the other locations you mention are mostly public property and you have no choice for hospital or school.

I also worked in food service, a long time ago, we had two sections and it worked out fine. Most locations that have been forced by stupid laws infringing on private property have also had to fire a lot of staff and still lose money. Almost no tips compared to before the smoking bans, etc. Some areas where smoking was already low have seen little to no effect, but then most of their patrons were already non-smoking. Leaving up to the owners to choose is the morally correct thing to do, as well as the more legal thing.

Also, second hand smoke numbers are blown WAY out of reality:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AjXwSJtxGc]YouTube - Bullshit! S1/E5 Second Hand Smoke / Baby Bullshit 1/3[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAmp9U9E-J0]YouTube - Bullshit! S1/E5 Second Hand Smoke / Baby Bullshit 2/3[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKTg2wQEGlU]YouTube - Bullshit! S1/E5 Second Hand Smoke / Baby Bullshit 3/3[/ame]

On Safety to, for fun:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucooc2Ne95A]YouTube - Penn & Teller Bullshit S2E2 Safety Hysteria 3/3[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10kjEV448Vs]YouTube - Penn & Teller Bullshit S2E2 Safety Hysteria 2/3[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJRnf4fwCZ8]YouTube - Penn & Teller Bullshit S2E2 Safety Hysteria 1/3[/ame]


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## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> Your "freedom" stops at my nose.
> I know a lot of people who smoke, work in bars and are very glad those laws are in place.
> 
> Shall we just remove all non smoking laws and let people smoke anywhere they like? Hospitals, schools, libraries?
> Why should employees in those places be protected, if food service employees don't deserve protections?



and if you CHOOSE to take your nose into a smokey bar then don't cry when you had every chance to make an alternate choice.  Those people you know don't eclipse bars who have shut down because bar cleints say FUCK YOU to your draconian tobacco hating laws.  People go to bars to congregate in a location where the BAR OWNER should decide the atmosphere should be.  Can you say the same thing about hospitals and libraries?


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## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> Blow it out your bunghole.



Or, you can take it to that phantom wave of pink lungers that are always promised to reinvigorate the bar economy but, SHOCKINGLY, never materialize.


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## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> and if you CHOOSE to take your nose into a smokey bar then don't cry when you had every chance to make an alternate choice.  Those people you know don't eclipse bars who have shut down because bar cleints say FUCK YOU to your draconian tobacco hating laws.  People go to bars to congregate in a location where the BAR OWNER should decide the atmosphere should be.  Can you say the same thing about hospitals and libraries?



Shall we just let coal mine owners do away with safety measures too, just because it's a private business?


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## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> Difference: Bars are private property while the other locations you mention are mostly public property and you have no choice for hospital or school.
> 
> I also worked in food service, a long time ago, we had two sections and it worked out fine. Most locations that have been forced by stupid laws infringing on private property have also had to fire a lot of staff and still lose money. Almost no tips compared to before the smoking bans, etc. Some areas where smoking was already low have seen little to no effect, but then most of their patrons were already non-smoking. Leaving up to the owners to choose is the morally correct thing to do, as well as the more legal thing.
> 
> ...



Do you think that bar employees should be exempt from safety protections that all other employees are entitled too?


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## KittenKoder (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> Shall we just let coal mine owners do away with safety measures too, just because it's a private business?



That is actually different, those are proven dangers.


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## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> Or, you can take it to that phantom wave of pink lungers that are always promised to reinvigorate the bar economy but, SHOCKINGLY, never materialize.



Who gives a fuck about the bar economy? If a business can't survive in a changing economy should we be subsidizing it with the health of it's employees?


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## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> That is actually different, those are proven dangers.



How so?


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## KittenKoder (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> Do you think that bar employees should be exempt from safety protections that all other employees are entitled too?



*shrugs* From proven dangers, sure, if they have no other choice, sure, but:

1. You can choose to change jobs, never impossible.

2. There is no evidence to state that second hand smoke does anything more than stink ... kind of like perfume ... or BO ... or cars (which by the way, walking down a street with one car and no smokers you are inhaling the same 'harmful' chemicals as cigarettes but in a much higher concentration).


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## KittenKoder (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> How so?



WATCH THE VIDEOS! *hint hint*


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## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> *shrugs* From proven dangers, sure, if they have no other choice, sure, but:
> 
> 1. You can choose to change jobs, never impossible.
> 
> 2. There is no evidence to state that second hand smoke does anything more than stink ... kind of like perfume ... or BO ... or cars (which by the way, walking down a street with one car and no smokers you are inhaling the same 'harmful' chemicals as cigarettes but in a much higher concentration).



Such lame justifications.

Shall we just let all employers make up their own safety rules and if the employees don't like it, go find another job elsewhere? 

Ever heard of asthma, emphysema?  Sounds like you are one of those people in denial that cigarette smoke has any harmful effects.


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## KittenKoder (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> Such lame justifications.
> 
> Shall we just let all employers make up their own safety rules and if the employees don't like it, go find another job elsewhere?
> 
> Ever heard of asthma, emphysema?  Sounds like you are one of those people in denial that cigarette smoke has any harmful effects.



Um ... actually those have NOT yet been linked to smokers. The number of people with those problems who smoke are the same percentages as those who don't or have never been near smoke. As a matter of fact, the number of smokers in the US has declined while the number of lung cancer patients continues to climb. Asthma has not changed, it has been around for a long time and has already been determined to be more of a 'born with' disorder and not one that you actually develop later. It is irritated by any smoke, pollution, or pollen, but not just cigarette smoke ALL smoke. Also, mechanics develop emphysema more than smokers, so should autos be outlawed since they are contributing to that problem even more? Again, the actual studies are inconclusive for smokers and show no ill effects for second hand smoke other than the smell. Next ....


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## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> Shall we just let coal mine owners do away with safety measures too, just because it's a private business?



gosh.. is there a non-projected, non-masterfully crafted correlation between soot and black lung, ANG?  Smoking bans are not safety measure to any degree of your laughable argument.  I hand out MSDS forms, Ang.. I can tell you all about the hazards we allow workers to be employed around.


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## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> Who gives a fuck about the bar economy? If a business can't survive in a changing economy should we be subsidizing it with the health of it's employees?



well, CLEARLY the fucking BAR OWNERS and previously employed BAR STAFF who no longer have a place to work.  Changing economy my ass, Ang.  It would NOT change except forced out of business.  Employees, AGAIN, are not forced to work at a smokey bar.  YOU can take your pink lunger ass down the road to a smoke free bar.  Bottom line.


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## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> Such lame justifications.
> 
> Shall we just let all employers make up their own safety rules and if the employees don't like it, go find another job elsewhere?
> 
> Ever heard of asthma, emphysema?  Sounds like you are one of those people in denial that cigarette smoke has any harmful effects.



Uh, you do realize that safety policies ARE set by the companies themselves, right?  As long as they follow OSHA standards, which are derived from ACTUAL HAZARDS, then it is the company making the rules despite the opinons of the workers?


yes.. go find a job elsewhere.  YOu don't like taking your clothes of then you might not want to be a stripper.  and don't give me that asthma shit, Ang.  I smoke and HAVE ASTHMA.  smoking is not the sole cause, or trigger, of asthma attacks.  If they are for YOU then take YOURSELF down the road.


it's not denial.  It's requiring more evidence than bullshit fabrications by assholes on a mission despite fucking centuries of bars catering to centuries of fucking bar clients.  It's not like we have a giant fucking epidemic of bar deaths here, Ang.


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## KittenKoder (Sep 26, 2008)

Is Ang going to watch the tube show I posted and see the facts about it? I hope so.


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## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> Um ... actually those have NOT yet been linked to smokers. The number of people with those problems who smoke are the same percentages as those who don't or have never been near smoke. As a matter of fact, the number of smokers in the US has declined while the number of lung cancer patients continues to climb. Asthma has not changed, it has been around for a long time and has already been determined to be more of a 'born with' disorder and not one that you actually develop later. It is irritated by any smoke, pollution, or pollen, but not just cigarette smoke ALL smoke. Also, mechanics develop emphysema more than smokers, so should autos be outlawed since they are contributing to that problem even more? Again, the actual studies are inconclusive for smokers and show no ill effects for second hand smoke other than the smell. Next ....



I had very vivid memories of my brother being rushed to the hospital as a child because my father's cigarette smoke was causing his bronchial tubes to swell up. The doctor's knew even back then that secondhand smoke was dangerous. My own problems from asthma which contrary to what you claim, did start later in life, when I was 23, were caused by secondhand smoke. To claim that asthma is some strange disorder that is something a person is "born with" is another way of avoiding responsibility for harming other people.

Cars should be regulated, and they are to some extent, to prevent poisonous gasses from making people ill. The obvious difference between cars and cigarettes is that cars serve useful purposes and cigarettes serve none.
I'd like to see were you get got the info claiming mechanics have higher rates of emphysema than smokers. I never knew a mechanic who wasn't also a smoker so I'm wondering about that.

But let's just assume for argument's sake, that cigarette smoke does no harm at all and is just an annoyance. Why would you want to annoy people? Why would you think people would put up with it? People who are public nuisances with loud boom boxes or car stereos are dealt with by legal means, why shouldn't smokers? 

Since you seem to believe second hand smoke is not harmful, should we repeal all laws preventing smokers from lighting up wherever and whenever they want to?

supermarkets? restaurants? day care centers? 

Since you seem to think there is no danger in breathing secondhand smoke I would guess you would think laws banning it in those places also violate the rights of property owners to make their own smoking policies even though their property is a public gathering place.


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## KittenKoder (Sep 26, 2008)

What Causes Asthma?

I see 'MAY be caused by tobacco smoke' and three other 'possible' reasons to develop it, and always at a young age. Also, for irritants the list is HUGE, so big that even they didn't print it all.

Next.


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## KittenKoder (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> I had very vivid memories of my brother being rushed to the hospital as a child because my father's cigarette smoke was causing his bronchial tubes to swell up. The doctor's knew even back then that secondhand smoke was dangerous. My own problems from asthma which contrary to what you claim, did start later in life, when I was 23, were caused by secondhand smoke. To claim that asthma is some strange disorder that is something a person is "born with" is another way of avoiding responsibility for harming other people.
> 
> Cars should be regulated, and they are to some extent, to prevent poisonous gasses from making people ill. The obvious difference between cars and cigarettes is that cars serve useful purposes and cigarettes serve none.
> I'd like to see were you get got the info claiming mechanics have higher rates of emphysema than smokers. I never knew a mechanic who wasn't also a smoker so I'm wondering about that.
> ...



Also note, many of those places were 'smoke free' long before there were laws, the laws were added so they could create more controlling laws not because they needed them in the first place ... so again ... next.


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## Luissa (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> The opposite happened in my area. restaurants and bars reported a 15% increase in customers.
> In any case, does the means justify the ends? Should those bingo halls have remained places where employees were denied protections so that a charity could benefit?


The bars did see an increase where I live also but all I have to say you shouldn't get a job in a bingo hall where 80% of the people smoke if you have a problem with smoking. And I think those charities benefiting from those business is more important. That is who opened the bingo halls. All three bingo halls in my city going to youth charities because of this law went out of business and the people who worked there lost their jobs.


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## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> well, CLEARLY the fucking BAR OWNERS and previously employed BAR STAFF who no longer have a place to work.  Changing economy my ass, Ang.  It would NOT change except forced out of business.  Employees, AGAIN, are not forced to work at a smokey bar.  YOU can take your pink lunger ass down the road to a smoke free bar.  Bottom line.



So Shogun, do you think we should relax those laws for *all* business owners? 

Remember, for all you crappy logic about personal freedoms and cigarette smoking, every time you light up within breathing distance of anyone else, you have taken away their choice as to whether they they want to be a smoker too. All this talk about freedom is a crock of shit. 
Why can't you rationalising smokers just come out and admit that every time you light up and blow smoke in someone's face, you are being an asshole? 
I have some sympathy for smokers seeing as I was addicted once myself and know how difficult it is to deny the cravings. Nicotene is a powerful drug. But I don't have any sympathy for smokers who are hypocrites. 
Though I do know that drug addled minds are not always capable of rational thought and perhaps not entirely guilty of their crimes.


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## roomy (Sep 26, 2008)

The smoking ban is the best thing that ever happened in the UK.I can understand addicts reluctance to give up their fix but for the life of me I cannot understand why anyone in this day and age would choose to begin smoking.


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## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

Luissa27 said:


> The bars did see an increase where I live also but all I have to say you shouldn't get a job in a bingo hall where 80% of the people smoke if you have a problem with smoking. And I think those charities benefiting from those business is more important. That is who opened the bingo halls. All three bingo halls in my city going to youth charities because of this law went out of business and the people who worked there lost their jobs.



I'm sure those charities continued to get donations through other means. But Luissa, can you give me a good reason why employees on bingo halls don't deserve the same protections office workers have?
You say don't get a job where people smoke. Suppose you have a choice between working in a smoking environment or not feeding your kids? Suppose second hand smoke didn't really bother you at first but after a while you began to get sick from it and you had to quit and find other work? Why should you lose your job because of someone else's rude behavior?


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## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

You know, Ang..   SHS wont both you one bit if you choose to go to a smoke free bar and leave smokers to their smoky bar.


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## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> Also note, many of those places were 'smoke free' long before there were laws, the laws were added so they could create more controlling laws not because they needed them in the first place ... so again ... next.



What places were smoke free? At one time EVERYPLACE was smoke free.
I don't get your point about  "controlling laws" and how does any of this justify subjecting bar employees to something all other employees are protected from?  Why would you think bar employees are somehow less deserving of the protecction of the law?


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## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

roomy said:


> The smoking ban is the best thing that ever happened in the UK.I can understand addicts reluctance to give up their fix but for the life of me I cannot understand why anyone in this day and age would choose to begin smoking.



go brush your teeth you gap toothed wanker.


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## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> You know, Ang..   SHS wont both you one bit if you choose to go to a smoke free bar and leave smokers to their smoky bar.



Shogun dance around the issue all you want, but you'll never be able to justify treating bar workers as second class citizens not deserving of the same protections all other workers get.


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## roomy (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> go brush your teeth you gap toothed wanker.



Hahahahaha... you never let me down do you Uncle Tom?


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## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> So Shogun, do you think we should relax those laws for *all* business owners?
> 
> Remember, for all you crappy logic about personal freedoms and cigarette smoking, every time you light up within breathing distance of anyone else, you have taken away their choice as to whether they they want to be a smoker too. All this talk about freedom is a crock of shit.
> Why can't you rationalising smokers just come out and admit that every time you light up and blow smoke in someone's face, you are being an asshole?
> ...



NO, I have not taken away a single choice of yours.  YOU could take your ass down the street to a smoke free bar.  THAT is your choice.  don't like smoking?  Take off to the smoke free bar.  THAT is a choice.  

HA!  a pink lunger calling someone ELSE an asshole?  Now THAT is a fucking rich piece of cake, Ang.  go take your criticism of smokers and put that much effort into finding tangible evidence for your goofy fucking anti-tobacco quest since the gun you have is shooting blanks.


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## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> I'm sure those charities continued to get donations through other means. But Luissa, can you give me a good reason why employees on bingo halls don't deserve the same protections office workers have?
> You say don't get a job where people smoke. Suppose you have a choice between working in a smoking environment or not feeding your kids? Suppose second hand smoke didn't really bother you at first but after a while you began to get sick from it and you had to quit and find other work? Why should you lose your job because of someone else's rude behavior?



WHO FORCES YOU TO WORK IN A BINGO HALL, ANG?  IN A SMOKY BAR?  WHO?


go feed your fucking kids without assuming that the world is responsible for your choice to get pregnant.  There's always a mcdonalds hiring!



Oh, and im calling shennanigans on your "bar income GREW after the ban" bullshit.  Show me your data 'cause I can show you mine.


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## roomy (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> NO, I have not taken away a single choice of yours.  YOU could take your ass down the street to a smoke free bar.  THAT is your choice.  don't like smoking?  Take off to the smoke free bar.  THAT is a choice.
> 
> HA!  a pink lunger calling someone ELSE an asshole?  Now THAT is a fucking rich piece of cake, Ang.  go take your criticism of smokers and put that much effort into finding tangible evidence for your goofy fucking anti-tobacco quest since the gun you have is shooting blanks.




Like most smokers, you are an ignorant, abusive nugget.


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## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> NO, I have not taken away a single choice of yours.  YOU could take your ass down the street to a smoke free bar.  THAT is your choice.  don't like smoking?  Take off to the smoke free bar.  THAT is a choice.
> 
> HA!  a pink lunger calling someone ELSE an asshole?  Now THAT is a fucking rich piece of cake, Ang.  go take your criticism of smokers and put that much effort into finding tangible evidence for your goofy fucking anti-tobacco quest since the gun you have is shooting blanks.



Okay, just avoid the issues. Whatever it takes for you to justify imposing your addiction on everyone else.


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## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

roomy said:


> Hahahahaha... you never let me down do you Uncle Tom?




I am much more reliable than British Toothpaste, it seems.


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## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

roomy said:


> Like most smokers, you are an ignorant, abusive nugget.



says the guy crying about abuse by talking shit.  Maybe Flouride is a brain tonic too...


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## roomy (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> I am much more reliable than British Toothpaste, it seems.




Belt up you ponce.


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## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> WHO FORCES YOU TO WORK IN A BINGO HALL, ANG?  IN A SMOKY BAR?  WHO?
> 
> 
> go feed your fucking kids without assuming that the world is responsible for your choice to get pregnant.  There's always a mcdonalds hiring!
> ...



I showed it to you last time. Go find the thread.
Anything to avoid facing the fact that to light up where any other person is near and insisting _they_ need to move elsewhere is selfish bullying behavior.
Drugs can do that to the nicest people though.


----------



## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> Okay, just avoid the issues. Whatever it takes for you to justify imposing your addiction on everyone else.



Im not avoiding shit, Ang.  Im READY to point out the failure of your evidence, the FAILURE of your logic and the FAILURE of your choice to enter a smoky bar.  I don't impose shit onto you if YOU don't choose to enter where I am smoking.  I'm not begging you for your presence when I go out drinking.  You go to YOUR bar and ILL go to mine.  It's as simple as that.  And, since no one makes you work anywhere and the public is not responsible for feeding your kids.. well.. it's pretty fucking clear why smoking bans do nothing but run bar owners out of business.


----------



## roomy (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> says the guy crying about abuse by talking shit.  Maybe Flouride is a brain tonic too...




I love it when you tallk dirty to me......do it some more


----------



## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

roomy said:


> Belt up you ponce.



You tell him!! LOL!


----------



## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

roomy said:


> Belt up you ponce.



gargle and spit, you fucking ADA awareness posterchild.


----------



## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> I showed it to you last time. Go find the thread.
> Anything to avoid facing the fact that to light up where any other person is near and insisting _they_ need to move elsewhere is selfish bullying behavior.
> Drugs can do that to the nicest people though.



You didn't show me a damn thing, Ang.  I'd have pounced all over it if you had.  And YOU can't talk about FACTS with the bullshit you use as evidence, yo.  Projected estimates are not facts.  YOUR OPINION about smoking is not a fact.  And yes, if the BAR OWNER decides to allow smoking then yes YOU need to move along.  Just like an owner who decides to go smoke free can tell a SMOKER TO MOVE ALONG.  What you DONT have is a fucking monopoly on choices just because you refuse to make better personal choices.


----------



## roomy (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> Im not avoiding shit, Ang.  Im READY to point out the failure of your evidence, the FAILURE of your logic and the FAILURE of your choice to enter a smoky bar.  I don't impose shit onto you if YOU don't choose to enter where I am smoking.  I'm not begging you for your presence when I go out drinking.  You go to YOUR bar and ILL go to mine.  It's as simple as that.  And, since no one makes you work anywhere and the public is not responsible for feeding your kids.. well.. it's pretty fucking clear why smoking bans do nothing but run bar owners out of business.




Try explaining yourself and your blatant disregard for others to someone with a terminal smoking related disease due to passive smoking cigs belonging to ignorant morons like you.


----------



## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

roomy said:


> I love it when you tallk dirty to me......do it some more




Are you trying to sweet talk your teeth into a lighter shade of fury brown, dude?


----------



## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> You didn't show me a damn thing, Ang.  I'd have pounced all over it if you had.  And YOU can't talk about FACTS with the bullshit you use as evidence, yo.  Projected estimates are not facts.  YOUR OPINION about smoking is not a fact.  And yes, if the BAR OWNER decides to allow smoking then yes YOU need to move along.  Just like an owner who decides to go smoke free can tell a SMOKER TO MOVE ALONG.  What you DONT have is a fucking monopoly on choices just because you refuse to make better personal choices.



You are quite the defensive one, aren't you!!!! 
Care to answer my questions about allowing smoking everywhere, according to the property owner's whims?
Shall we allow rape and murder too? According to property owner's whims?


----------



## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> Are you trying to sweet talk your teeth into a lighter shade of fury brown, dude?



You are everything roomy says and more when you blow smoke in people's faces.


----------



## KittenKoder (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> What places were smoke free? At one time EVERYPLACE was smoke free.
> I don't get your point about  "controlling laws" and how does any of this justify subjecting bar employees to something all other employees are protected from?  Why would you think bar employees are somehow less deserving of the protecction of the law?



Notice I did say BEFORE the LAWS went into effect, and not every place, just the ones you listed (hospitals, schools, etc). They went smoke-free, which means they had to allow it at one point or another. I already answered your other question several times and my fingers get tired of repeating answers.

Now, the whole root of the problem is this: Making a law to enforce any moral, even if it's one based on a non-religious belief, that infringes on a private business is immoral. To show what is happening, now they are trying to push for laws for people to stop smoking in their cars, that is just plain stupidity since the cars put out almost the exact same toxins in the air as cigarettes but thousands of times more, so it's like putting out a spark during a forest fire. Some areas are trying to ban smoking outside completely, again the spark in a forest fire. There are more reasons to NOT make them laws than there are to make them laws, so even if there was some magical link for SHS being bad for people, making laws against it is like ... recycling laws which cost a fortune in taxes ... anti-abortion laws which take one individuals rights away for another ... etc. Same coin, different sides.


----------



## KittenKoder (Sep 26, 2008)

roomy said:


> Like most smokers, you are an ignorant, abusive nugget.



I have only seen a few of your posts, but still you seem no less abusive than Allie or Glocksucker.


----------



## roomy (Sep 26, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> I have only seen a few of your posts, but still you seem no less abusive than Allie or Glocksucker.



This is the first post I have seen belonging you and it is an attack on me, go figure. I bet you are a smoker.


----------



## KittenKoder (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> You didn't show me a damn thing, Ang.  I'd have pounced all over it if you had.  And YOU can't talk about FACTS with the bullshit you use as evidence, yo.  Projected estimates are not facts.  YOUR OPINION about smoking is not a fact.  And yes, if the BAR OWNER decides to allow smoking then yes YOU need to move along.  Just like an owner who decides to go smoke free can tell a SMOKER TO MOVE ALONG.  What you DONT have is a fucking monopoly on choices just because you refuse to make better personal choices.



Shogun, take a cig break, please. Let's keep it civil, it has been between the three of us so far, let's not get under each others skin now.


----------



## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> Notice I did say BEFORE the LAWS went into effect, and not every place, just the ones you listed (hospitals, schools, etc). They went smoke-free, which means they had to allow it at one point or another. I already answered your other question several times and my fingers get tired of repeating answers.
> 
> Now, the whole root of the problem is this: Making a law to enforce any moral, even if it's one based on a non-religious belief, that infringes on a private business is immoral. To show what is happening, now they are trying to push for laws for people to stop smoking in their cars, that is just plain stupidity since the cars put out almost the exact same toxins in the air as cigarettes but thousands of times more, so it's like putting out a spark during a forest fire. Some areas are trying to ban smoking outside completely, again the spark in a forest fire. There are more reasons to NOT make them laws than there are to make them laws, so even if there was some magical link for SHS being bad for people, making laws against it is like ... recycling laws which cost a fortune in taxes ... anti-abortion laws which take one individuals rights away for another ... etc. Same coin, different sides.



You really haven't answered my question of why bar employees don't deserve equal protection. Or shown me how cars, whose emissions are regulated, BTW, are comparable to cigarettes. One performs a useful service, the other does not.

I'm not sure why you think private businesses are not part of the community and not required to be regulated by law.


----------



## roomy (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> You really haven't answered my question of why bar employees don't deserve equal protection. Or shown me how cars, whose emissions are regulated, BTW, are comparable to cigarettes. One performs a useful service, the other does not.
> 
> I'm not sure why you think private businesses are not part of the community and not required to be regulated by law.



I think she has smoke in her eyes, she might see it later, when she is finished hacking up her lungs.


----------



## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

roomy said:


> Try explaining yourself and your blatant disregard for others to someone with a terminal smoking related disease due to passive smoking cigs belonging to ignorant morons like you.



I'd probably tell them that they were fucking stupid for walking into a smoky bar with a terminal disease like cancer.  But, hey.. much like poor oral hygiene in the UK, stupidity is allowed.  They made poor choices.  bummer for them.  But I LOVE how you are going for the heartstrings you walking Before picture.


----------



## KittenKoder (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> You really haven't answered my question of why bar employees don't deserve equal protection. Or shown me how cars, whose emissions are regulated, BTW, are comparable to cigarettes. One performs a useful service, the other does not.
> 
> I'm not sure why you think private businesses are not part of the community and not required to be regulated by law.



I did, I said (paraphrased) that they are important but still have the choice to move to another job of the same type. I worked in the food industry myself, a long time ago, it was my favorite job. We had two separate sections, and that worked fine.

So you are saying that a worse cause of pollution is less important than a minor one? We have many alternatives to most of our driving but they are not making laws to force people to 'take the bus' or *gasp* 'walk there' for short trips. As a matter of fact many places become impossible for pedestrians and yet they make room for the cars instead when the cars could go around much easier. How is making a law to force private businesses to tell their customers what they can and cannot do better?


----------



## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> You are quite the defensive one, aren't you!!!!
> Care to answer my questions about allowing smoking everywhere, according to the property owner's whims?
> Shall we allow rape and murder too? According to property owner's whims?



HA!

RAPE is a legal activity like SMOKING is?  Murder?  Tell me, Ang.. If IM raping you what choice did you have in the matter?  Did you KNOW that that I was about to fuck you in the bushes like you knew there would be smoking in a smokey bar?


good grief.  what part of MAKE A CHOICE TO GO TO A SMOKE FREE BAR dont you understnand?


----------



## KittenKoder (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> I'd probably tell them that they were fucking stupid for walking into a smoky bar with a terminal disease like cancer.  But, hey.. much like poor oral hygiene in the UK, stupidity is allowed.  They made poor choices.  bummer for them.  But I LOVE how you are going for the heartstrings you walking Before picture.



Roomy is trolling, cool off a bit, you are giving it what it wants, do not feed the troll, stay focused. Please, I actually feel very strong on the subject myself, and that is all the more reason to remain civil.


----------



## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

IMO, cigarette smokers who smoke around other people, especially those who smoke around children with developing respiratory systems are mentally ill people much like those alcoholics who are in denial about how their addiction is ruining not only their own health, but their relationships with other people, not to mention the dangers of drunk driving.

To addicts, their drug of choice becomes more important than anything else.


----------



## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> You are everything roomy says and more when you blow smoke in people's faces.



don't act like you don't want some, Ang.  You are lying to yourself about as poorly as Roomy's dentist is lying to him about having healthy gums.


----------



## roomy (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> I'd probably tell them that they were fucking stupid for walking into a smoky bar with a terminal disease like cancer.  But, hey.. much like poor oral hygiene in the UK, stupidity is allowed.  They made poor choices.  bummer for them.  But I LOVE how you are going for the heartstrings you walking Before picture.




You are either a bare faced fucking liar or you really are an ignorant fucking moron.Either way, you fucking stink.

Fritz.


----------



## KittenKoder (Sep 26, 2008)

Damn, and it was all so interesting ... stupid troll got everyone riled up too tight now. Oh well.


----------



## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

roomy said:


> I think she has smoke in her eyes, she might see it later, when she is finished hacking up her lungs.



The extent to which nicotine junkies will go and the loopy logic they come up with to justifiy subjecting people to their drug just amazes me.

I don't understand why they can't just chew their tobacco instead? Or inject it? or take it in pill form?  Why the need to infect everyone else?


----------



## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> IMO, cigarette smokers who smoke around other people, especially those who smoke around children with developing respiratory systems are mentally ill people much like those alcoholics who are in denial about how their addiction is ruining not only their own health, but their relationships with other people, not to mention the dangers of drunk driving.
> 
> To addicts, their drug of choice becomes more important than anything else.



NEWSFLASH, ANG.  YOU are going to die someday.  Fucking CRAZY I know.  Blaming smokers for YOUR poor choices is not an excuse to make those poor choices.  Even non smokers GET LUNG CANCER.  Even non smokers GET ASTHMA.  WOW.  mind blower, eh?


If you don't like what you perceive as addicts then, again, don't choose to drink around us.  It's as simple as that.


----------



## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

roomy said:


> You are either a bare faced fucking liar or you really are an ignorant fucking moron.Either way, you fucking stink.
> 
> Fritz.



You think that the world should stop because someone with cancer walks into a smoky bar?  Gosh, silly me for not feeling responsible for your stupid choices.  I guess I should go ahead and stop drinking alcohol too because you've got gum disease.  

*yawn*


----------



## roomy (Sep 26, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> Damn, and it was all so interesting ... stupid troll got everyone riled up too tight now. Oh well.



No, you are an idiot and you started an idiot thread to antagonise non smokers, the only one to champion your idiots cause is the board idiot himself Shogun.Put that into your idiots pipe and smoke it.I may neg you to see if you go back to zero you popular idiotjust joking I don't neg except for retaliation and you are niether here nor there to me


----------



## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> The extent to which nicotine junkies will go and the loopy logic they come up with to justifiy subjecting people to their drug just amazes me.
> 
> I don't understand why they can't just chew their tobacco instead? Or inject it? or take it in pill form?  Why the need to infect everyone else?



says the pink lunger with no real evidence STILL?  Who is subjigating anyone if YOU CHOOSE TO STAY THE FUCK OUT OF A SMOKY BAR?

I don't know why you can't just take your narrow ass to another bar that caters to your cute little pink lungs.  Why must must you throw your opinion at everyone else?


----------



## roomy (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> You think that the world should stop because someone with cancer walks into a smoky bar?  Gosh, silly me for not feeling responsible for your stupid choices.  I guess I should go ahead and stop drinking alcohol too because you've got gum disease.
> 
> *yawn*




Would it fair if a non smoker cracked you between the eyes every time you blew smoke on them?Apart from everything else...you fucking stink


----------



## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> I did, I said (paraphrased) that they are important but still have the choice to move to another job of the same type. I worked in the food industry myself, a long time ago, it was my favorite job. We had two separate sections, and that worked fine.
> 
> So you are saying that a worse cause of pollution is less important than a minor one? We have many alternatives to most of our driving but they are not making laws to force people to 'take the bus' or *gasp* 'walk there' for short trips. As a matter of fact many places become impossible for pedestrians and yet they make room for the cars instead when the cars could go around much easier. How is making a law to force private businesses to tell their customers what they can and cannot do better?



I'm all for making it harder for people to use their cars when public transportation is available. I'd like to see downtown areas made into pedestrian zones. I'm for all that kind of stuff.

I worked in a restaurant that had a non smoking and a non smoking section and it never worked out. You could smell the smoke everywhere. Servers were constantly fighting over who would have to work the smoking section.

The only way you can have a bar or restaurant that allows smoking and is still fair to employees is to have a completely enclosed section where the smokers can carry their own food and drinks and no employees would have to enter and be put at risk. I've never heard of any such a place. I doubt it would be profitable.


----------



## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> HA!
> 
> RAPE is a legal activity like SMOKING is?  Murder?  Tell me, Ang.. If IM raping you what choice did you have in the matter?  Did you KNOW that that I was about to fuck you in the bushes like you knew there would be smoking in a smokey bar?
> 
> ...



Smoking is not a legal activity in many places, so you can toss that worn out old trick in the trash.

What part of we are not talking about bar patron's choices do _you_ not get? 

Honestly, it surprises me that a manly man as yourself, Shogun, can't just admit you're being an asshole when you poison the air everyone around you shares with you.


----------



## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> Damn, and it was all so interesting ... stupid troll got everyone riled up too tight now. Oh well.



Roomy is comic relief. And don't be fooled, Shogun lives for this kind of stuff.


----------



## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> Blaming smokers for YOUR poor choices is not an excuse to make those poor choices.  Even non smokers GET LUNG CANCER.



Priceless!! Thank for agreeing with me finally.


----------



## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

roomy said:


> Would it fair if a non smoker cracked you between the eyes every time you blew smoke on them?Apart from everything else...you fucking stink



Well, I mean if you think you are man enough to get away with it I'd suggest you do what you feel necessary.  After making THAT stupid *choice* (one of many) and having to pick yourself up off the ground after being knocked the fuck out for a bit, you'll take yourself down the road to a smoke free bar.


----------



## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> You think that the world should stop because someone with cancer walks into a smoky bar?  Gosh, silly me for not feeling responsible for your stupid choices.  I guess I should go ahead and stop drinking alcohol too because you've got gum disease.
> 
> *yawn*



Guess what, you're not the world. You smokers are a shrinking minority. The rest of the world has had enough of your abuse.


----------



## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> *I'm all for making it harder for people to use their cars when public transportation is available. I'd like to see downtown areas made into pedestrian zones. I'm for all that kind of stuff.*
> 
> I worked in a restaurant that had a non smoking and a non smoking section and it never worked out. You could smell the smoke everywhere. Servers were constantly fighting over who would have to work the smoking section.
> 
> The only way you can have a bar or restaurant that allows smoking and is still fair to employees is to have a completely enclosed section where the smokers can carry their own food and drinks and no employees would have to enter and be put at risk. I've never heard of any such a place. I doubt it would be profitable.



well, thats where you and i differ.  There is very little between the choices you'd make and the choices a fascist would make "for the good of the people".


Indeed, closed bars sure are more profitable.


----------



## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> says the pink lunger with no real evidence STILL?  Who is subjigating anyone if YOU CHOOSE TO STAY THE FUCK OUT OF A SMOKY BAR?
> 
> I don't know why you can't just take your narrow ass to another bar that caters to your cute little pink lungs.  Why must must you throw your opinion at everyone else?



ALL CAPS DOESN"T PROVE YOUR LAME ASS EXCUSES ARE IN ANY WAY VALID, ShoBully.


----------



## roomy (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> Well, I mean if you think you are man enough to get away with it I'd suggest you do what you feel necessary.  After making THAT stupid *choice* (one of many) and having to pick yourself up off the ground after being knocked the fuck out for a bit, you'll take yourself down the road to a smoke free bar.




Hahahahahahaha... I would love it nancy boy.


----------



## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> Smoking is not a legal activity in many places, so you can toss that worn out old trick in the trash.
> 
> What part of we are not talking about bar patron's choices do _you_ not get?
> 
> Honestly, it surprises me that a manly man as yourself, Shogun, can't just admit you're being an asshole when you poison the air everyone around you shares with you.



In bars it is a legal activity.  It always has been.  So, no, I won't toss it out because, AGAIN, you simply cannot prove harm on par with BEING FUCKING RAPED when crying about projected statistics.

Yes, we ARE talking about bar patron choices because YOU never have to drink at or WORK AT a smoky bar.  There is not Smoke duty draft.  You are not forced to do anything but get a different job or find another bar to drink at.  End of story.

Hey, the whole asshole nomenclature is widely applicable.  I promise that motherfuckers who think that their opinions are universal are considered assholes just as much as you can sling the word around.  The difference?  IM offering an individual choice while you offer choices made for the individual.  Please, lecture me on the application of the word asshole some more.


----------



## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> Roomy is comic relief. And don't be fooled, Shogun lives for this kind of stuff.



yea, Kitty.. You should probably stick around.. you'll find out that im like the Zeus of trolls around here.


----------



## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> Priceless!! Thank for agreeing with me finally.



what the hell are you talking about?  Im pointing out the flimsy thin nature of your laughable "evidene"


----------



## roomy (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> yea, Kitty.. You should probably stick around.. you'll find out that im like the Zeus of trolls around here.




Forget it shirtlifter.


----------



## KittenKoder (Sep 26, 2008)

Sorry Shogun and Anguille ... maybe I'll pick up on this myself again later, right now the 'comic relief' is making it too chaotic for me to be serious without wanting to rip him apart for interjecting such pointless insults without even having ay real logic or personality. If one thing, I am easily provoked by stupidity, and Emptyspaces comments are just plain stupidity.


----------



## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> In bars it is a legal activity.  It always has been.  So, no, I won't toss it out because, AGAIN, you simply cannot prove harm on par with BEING FUCKING RAPED when crying about projected statistics.
> 
> Yes, we ARE talking about bar patron choices because YOU never have to drink at or WORK AT a smoky bar.  There is not Smoke duty draft.  You are not forced to do anything but get a different job or find another bar to drink at.  End of story.
> 
> Hey, the whole asshole nomenclature is widely applicable.  I promise that motherfuckers who think that their opinions are universal are considered assholes just as much as you can sling the word around.  The difference?  IM offering an individual choice while you offer choices made for the individual.  Please, lecture me on the application of the word asshole some more.



Why should anyone have to leave their job because of a bully.
If they were to come out with a study that proved a link between secondhand smoke and shrinking penises, you be the first to jump on the ban SMS band wagon.


----------



## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> what the hell are you talking about?  Im pointing out the flimsy thin nature of your laughable "evidene"



Smoking is for pansies.

Real men don't smoke.


----------



## roomy (Sep 26, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> Sorry Shogun and Anguille ... maybe I'll pick up on this myself again later, right now the 'comic relief' is making it too chaotic for me to be serious without wanting to rip him apart for interjecting such pointless insults without even having ay real logic or personality. If one thing, I am easily provoked by stupidity, and Emptyspaces comments are just plain stupidity.




I think you will find that my first post was right and proper, Shogun the moron attacked me out of the blue, you took it upon your stupid self to take his side, bigger fool you.Now do us all a favour pussy cat and fuck off before I resort to starting threads about KittenKoders favourite masterbation tecniques and fantasies.


----------



## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

roomy said:


> I think you will find that my first post was right and proper, Shogun the moron attacked me out of the blue, you took it upon your stupid self to take his side, bigger fool you.Now do us all a favour pussy cat and fuck off before I resort to starting threads about KittenKoders favourite masterbation tecniques and fantasies.



I must agree, she turned a blind eye to her fellow smoker's own behavior.


----------



## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> Why should anyone have to leave their job because of a bully.
> If they were to come out with a study that proved a link between secondhand smoke and shrinking penises, you be the first to jump on the ban SMS band wagon.



uh, because they dont want to conform to the policy SET BY THE OWNER?

and, Ang, we've talked about the slab of hulking meat that would disprove your new correlation already.  King Kongs Forearm, remember?


----------



## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> Smoking is for pansies.
> 
> Real men don't smoke.



you know better than that.


----------



## Shogun (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> I must agree, she turned a blind eye to her fellow smoker's own behavior.



Ang, if Hitler decided to demonize smoking you'd insist on telling us how swell he is.  Truly.  Make better choices and let everyone else make their own choices.


----------



## Luissa (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> I'm sure those charities continued to get donations through other means. But Luissa, can you give me a good reason why employees on bingo halls don't deserve the same protections office workers have?
> You say don't get a job where people smoke. Suppose you have a choice between working in a smoking environment or not feeding your kids? Suppose second hand smoke didn't really bother you at first but after a while you began to get sick from it and you had to quit and find other work? Why should you lose your job because of someone else's rude behavior?


Actually for Big Brothers and sisters it was their number one profit maker for their charity!
And along with the bingo halls some of the 'dive' bars went out of business because most of their business was smokers. People just stayed home to drink! I can understand if it is a family place or maybe more up scale but what about the hole in wall place.
And another note now you have to drive 20 miles to the indian res. if you want to play bingo!There are no bingo halls in my city anymore!


----------



## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

Luissa27 said:


> Actually for Big Brothers and sisters it was their number one profit maker for their charity!
> And along with the bingo halls some of the 'dive' bars went out of business because most of their business was smokers. People just stayed home to drink! I can understand if it is a family place or maybe more up scale but what about the whole in wall place.
> And another note now you have to drive 20 miles to the indian res. if you want to play bingo!There are no bingo halls in my city anymore!



That's too bad about the charities. I guess their nicotene habit meant more to the bingo players than Big Brothers and Big Sisters, the 40 extra miles in driving or the empoyees and the other patrons at the bingo hall.


----------



## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> Ang, if Hitler decided to demonize smoking you'd insist on telling us how swell he is.  Truly.  Make better choices and let everyone else make their own choices.



Invoke Hitler. Works everytime. 

Letting everyone else make their own choice about inhaling your tar and nicotene is what not smoking around other people is all about, Big Boy.


----------



## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

Shogun said:


> you know better than that.



I'm not lying to you, Shoggs. You'll have more luck with the ladies if you ditch the cancer sticks. No one enjoys kissing as ashtray.


----------



## KittenKoder (Sep 26, 2008)

After thinking on it I have one final post to this topic, which actually just started off as a cute little joke.

I hate smoking because I hate being addicted, but I want to stop on my own terms. Forcing people to stop doing something only makes the addiction stronger, it never helps. Ask a rehab center how many times the average patient there returns to get an idea. A good example is AA, 12 step stuff, from P&T, they can just word things better and make it go down easier than I can:

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Smoking itself isn't any more dangerous than walking down the street, but addiction is not a fun thing to contend with. Proof on here of what happens when addicts are pushed instead of coaxed, forced instead of nurtured. I know a few crack addicts (tobacco being more addictive) who stopped without any programs, law enforcement, etc.. They stopped because they wanted to themselves, no one told them they had to, no one pulled their arm, and it wasn't the law. One was getting high daily for almost 20 years, but she still broke that habit. So, if you do care about yours and our health, just don't force it. Many of us are quitting the habit, because it's just not fun being addicted, but making laws to push it only makes our willpower turn into fear.


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## Luissa (Sep 26, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> After thinking on it I have one final post to this topic, which actually just started off as a cute little joke.
> 
> I hate smoking because I hate being addicted, but I want to stop on my own terms. Forcing people to stop doing something only makes the addiction stronger, it never helps. Ask a rehab center how many times the average patient there returns to get an idea. A good example is AA, 12 step stuff, from P&T, they can just word things better and make it go down easier than I can:
> 
> ...


I have heard from my friend who works at a treament center on average people return to using whatever drug they use on average seven times!


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## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> After thinking on it I have one final post to this topic, which actually just started off as a cute little joke.
> 
> I hate smoking because I hate being addicted, but I want to stop on my own terms. Forcing people to stop doing something only makes the addiction stronger, it never helps. Ask a rehab center how many times the average patient there returns to get an idea. A good example is AA, 12 step stuff, from P&T, they can just word things better and make it go down easier than I can:
> 
> ...



If people were sensible and quit smoking of their own accord, we'd have no more smokers. I gave up hoping all smokers would be nice about their habits long ago. 
I personally don't care if other people smoke or not. That's their business. I just don't want to be forced to join in their habit which is what happens when they smoke around me. Then laws restricting smoking in bars have nothing to do with making decisions forcing smokers to quit. The are about fair and equal protection of all employees regardless of social status.
I've never tried to make anyone quit except when I was a kid and wanted my father to stop. It's pointless to try to make anyone stop. A person has to want to do it on their own. I do know of many people who say they quit after they couldn't smoke at work any more. But they all said they had been trying anyway and that was one more reason to stop.
I think a lot of smokers think it's about them but it isn't. Non smokers are just sick of being imposed on.


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## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

Luissa27 said:


> I have heard from my friend who works at a treament center on average people return to using whatever drug they use on average seven times!



It took me three tries to quit smoking. I also heard that the best indicator that someone will quit successfully is if they've already tried before.


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## Anguille (Sep 26, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> After thinking on it I have one final post to this topic, which actually just started off as a cute little joke.
> 
> I hate smoking because I hate being addicted, but I want to stop on my own terms. Forcing people to stop doing something only makes the addiction stronger, it never helps. Ask a rehab center how many times the average patient there returns to get an idea. A good example is AA, 12 step stuff, from P&T, they can just word things better and make it go down easier than I can:
> 
> ...



PS I wish you the best of luck if and when you do try to quit. It sure isn't easy and for everyone it's different.


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## Luissa (Sep 26, 2008)

Anguille said:


> It took me three tries to quit smoking. I also heard that the best indicator that someone will quit successfully is if they've already tried before.


I have only quit once when I was pregnant but I haven't tried since. Don't really want to right now!


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## lolly (Sep 27, 2008)

I will not eat in restaurants that are non smoking.  People let their kids run wild in smoke free restaurants.  The last time I was in a smoke free restaurant, a toddler reached over the side of my booth and ate off my plate.

I would rather have the smoke along with some peace and quiet.  And yes, I have two kids.  However, many people in my area seem to think manners are optional for kids.


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## KittenKoder (Sep 28, 2008)

lolly said:


> I will not eat in restaurants that are non smoking.  People let their kids run wild in smoke free restaurants.  The last time I was in a smoke free restaurant, a toddler reached over the side of my booth and ate off my plate.
> 
> I would rather have the smoke along with some peace and quiet.  And yes, I have two kids.  However, many people in my area seem to think manners are optional for kids.



I have witnessed such behavior, but have been lucky to not be directly effected by it yet.


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## xsited1 (Sep 28, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> Burn In.swf (humor, NSFW)
> 
> I wish I could spit fire to.
> 
> ...



Gotta love the tobacco nazis.  They don't even want smokers in a privately-owned business.  They should be tried for treason.


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## KittenKoder (Sep 28, 2008)

xsited1 said:


> Gotta love the tobacco nazis.  They don't even want smokers in a privately-owned business.  They should be tried for treason.
> 
> http://bp3.blogger.com/_7NTpd923z7o...BMr56s/s400/zeppcolor.jpg (Tobacco Nazi)[/url




The really funny thing is that the people who start these anti-smoking groups are the least healthy people I have ever seen.


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## lolly (Sep 28, 2008)

I have noticed that smoke free work places quickly become perfume free workplaces.  Once the air clears, people find something else that annoys them: other people's perfume, diet, hygiene... the complaints get worse and worse.  How did everyone suddenly be come so allergic and intolerant of everyone else? Why is asthma suddenly an epidemic in children?

Its odd.  The cleaner the air becomes, the sicker we all seem to get.


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## KittenKoder (Sep 28, 2008)

lolly said:


> I have noticed that smoke free work places quickly become perfume free workplaces.  Once the air clears, people find something else that annoys them: other people's perfume, diet, hygiene... the complaints get worse and worse.  How did everyone suddenly be come so allergic and intolerant of everyone else? Why is asthma suddenly an epidemic in children?
> 
> Its odd.  The cleaner the air becomes, the sicker we all seem to get.



Very much so, I sometimes smoke to mask the excessive perfumes that many people tend to wear. But those who complain about it are the people who just want to find something to complain about or fight against without thinking 'how could I just avoid it?'


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## lolly (Sep 28, 2008)

KittenKoder - I agree.  Some folks truly have allergies and need smoke free air - my grandfather  had a terrible time breathing.  But many people seem to just want to control others.

One of my co-workers went on this garlic pill thing.  She oozed garlic through her pores. I took a handkerchief with perfume on it to meetings with her and pretended to have a cold.  I had enough respect for her as a person to trust that she would get tired of the garlic kick, and she did.   


It's funny in a way. We teach our kids tolerance for all sorts of people, beliefs, & behaviors - yet our society is so intolerant of odors.


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## Annie (Sep 28, 2008)

Each owner of business, home, establishment should be able to set their own rules. Each worker should be able to choose where they wish to work. The government should not be involved in these decisions. If the top restaurants in an area wish to be smoke free, they should be able to. If they choose to allow smoking, they should be allowed to. If they wish to split the difference, they should be allowed to.

As a patron, I may choose to patronize the establishments that follow my desires. If their policies are not to my liking, I will not patronize them. The government involvement is wrong.


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## roomy (Sep 28, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> Very much so, I sometimes smoke to mask the excessive perfumes that many people tend to wear. But those who complain about it are the people who just want to find something to complain about or fight against without thinking 'how could I just avoid it?'



I don't believe even you are that fucking ignorant?


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## lolly (Sep 28, 2008)

I don't know how it is going in other parts of the country.  In my area, hospitals have banned smoking anywhere on the grounds.  The hospital security. will fine you if you sit in your car and smoke. 

I think that is cruel. Some people are going thru horrible times - losing a parent, spouse or child.  If they want a cigarette, there should be somewhere they could go and smoke at the hospital.  The hospitals all got together and implemented the rule at the same time - so that the consumer couldn't chose a "smoking allowed" hospital over a non-smoking hospital.

Some colleges in our area do not allow smoking anywhere on the grounds.  The entire campus is smoke free.  There is no data that I am aware of that says smoking alone under a tree harms other people, yet they have implemented this rule based on "good habits" are taught here.


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## KittenKoder (Sep 28, 2008)

lolly said:


> I don't know how it is going in other parts of the country.  In my area, hospitals have banned smoking anywhere on the grounds.  The hospital security. will fine you if you sit in your car and smoke.
> 
> I think that is cruel. Some people are going thru horrible times - losing a parent, spouse or child.  If they want a cigarette, there should be somewhere they could go and smoke at the hospital.  The hospitals all got together and implemented the rule at the same time - so that the consumer couldn't chose a "smoking allowed" hospital over a non-smoking hospital.
> 
> Some colleges in our area do not allow smoking anywhere on the grounds.  The entire campus is smoke free.  There is no data that I am aware of that says smoking alone under a tree harms other people, yet they have implemented this rule based on "good habits" are taught here.



Seattle did the same thing, our suicide rate has actually gone up sense the bans were placed as well, and we weren't the best on those to begin with.


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## roomy (Sep 28, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> Seattle did the same thing, our suicide rate has actually gone up sense the bans were placed as well, and we weren't the best on those to begin with.



The UK has a ban on smoking and everything smells like it should


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## lolly (Sep 28, 2008)

don't believe even you are that f**king ignorant?

Interesting post.  It ends with a question mark.  Does the question mark apply to your belief, which presents a negative premise, or to the state of being?

_Perhaps the post is a clever play on our discussion of tolerance?_ If it is the latter, then your irony was amazing...;D


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## roomy (Sep 28, 2008)

lolly said:


> don't believe even you are that f**king ignorant?
> 
> Interesting post.  It ends with a question mark.  Does the question mark apply to your belief, which presents a negative premise, or to the state of being?
> 
> _Perhaps the post is a clever play on our discussion of tolerance?_ If it is the latter, then your irony was amazing...;D



However you interpret it...I am amazing


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## KittenKoder (Sep 28, 2008)

roomy said:


> The UK has a ban on smoking and everything smells like it should



Must say, that you must be unable to smell the toxic car exhaust that is much stronger than cig smoke, nice to be you then.


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## KittenKoder (Sep 28, 2008)

lolly said:


> don't believe even you are that f**king ignorant?
> 
> Interesting post.  It ends with a question mark.  Does the question mark apply to your belief, which presents a negative premise, or to the state of being?
> 
> _Perhaps the post is a clever play on our discussion of tolerance?_ If it is the latter, then your irony was amazing...;D



He just likes attacking everyone, from what I have seen, so pay him no mind, I only reply to him with non-sequitors now. (and no, I don't know how to spell that word)


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## roomy (Sep 28, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> Must say, that you must be unable to smell the toxic car exhaust that is much stronger than cig smoke, nice to be you then.




I can't smell it because the price of fuel has forced us all to walk everywhere, hence, we are all fit non smokers.


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## KittenKoder (Sep 28, 2008)

roomy said:


> I can't smell it because the price of fuel has forced us all to walk everywhere, hence, we are all fit non smokers.



Okay, that one I can't argue against. In Seattle the car exhaust is making everything gray (Emerald city my ass) and it stinks to high heaven. I would hate to live in San Fransisco, wouldn't even be able to breath there.


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## lolly (Sep 28, 2008)

Seattle did the same thing, our suicide rate has actually gone up sense the bans were placed as well, and we weren't the best on those to begin with."

How long have they had the bans in Seattle?  The bans just started here.


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## Otter_Creek (Sep 28, 2008)

Here's a pretty good support group for quitting. I hope you smokers decide to quit, I smoked 39 years and I have 2 years quit this January.
I won't get into my medical problems, but smoking has given me a lot of them.
Quit Smoking, Quitting smoking, stop smoking, stopping smoking


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## roomy (Sep 28, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> Okay, that one I can't argue against. In Seattle the car exhaust is making everything gray (Emerald city my ass) and it stinks to high heaven. I would hate to live in San Fransisco, wouldn't even be able to breath there.



Starting to love me already EH?


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## KittenKoder (Sep 28, 2008)

lolly said:


> Seattle did the same thing, our suicide rate has actually gone up sense the bans were placed as well, and we weren't the best on those to begin with."
> 
> How long have they had the bans in Seattle?  The bans just started here.



About three years now. Much of our economy is in the crapper now, not just because of that but many of our local hot spots have gone out of business because of the bans. One business that suffered the most was a bar and grill that catered to smokers, and the waitress' and staff have been quitting or getting fired because they make no tips, and their patronage has dropped a LOT. The only places to survive have heated patios for smokers but the banoholics have been pushing to get those out to. Our ban is REALLY stupid, smoking no closer than 25 feet from any window (open or closed), door, or vent. The police just said they wouldn't enforce that part at all, there was no way, because it's impossible without walking in the street and tying up the traffic. They are going repeal it soon, now that the impact has been noted and no one is happy, and we NEED the revenue of these businesses. Too many people staying home means an major increase in online sales, which do not help the city at all.


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## lolly (Sep 28, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> . Our ban is REALLY stupid, smoking no closer than 25 feet from any window (open or closed), door, or vent. .



The anti smokers must be taking a page from that playbook.  That is the same rule that is being promoted here.


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## roomy (Sep 28, 2008)

I used to smoke.I know what I am talking about.


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## Shattered (Sep 28, 2008)

roomy said:


> I used to smoke.I know what I am talking about.



Lemme guess..  The Mrs. said you had to give up smoking, or drinking...


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## KittenKoder (Sep 28, 2008)

lolly said:


> The anti smokers must be taking a page from that playbook.  That is the same rule that is being promoted here.



It won't work, the man hours required for the police alone are too much. Also, if they are mimicking us, the the business the smoker is nearest pays the fine not us. *grin*One saving grace that has hurt the morons who pushed for the stupid law, we just make sure we're in front of their businesses more.


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## roomy (Sep 28, 2008)

Shattered said:


> Lemme guess..  The Mrs. said you had to give up smoking, or drinking...




Nearly The kids told me I was going to die of smoking almost every day so I 'eventually' gave up, about a year later the Mrs gave up after a severe row in which I was called, amongst other things, 'A fat ugly Bastard'


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## Shattered (Sep 28, 2008)

roomy said:


> Nearly The kids told me I was going to die of smoking almost every day so I 'eventually' gave up, about a year later the Mrs gave up after a severe row in which I was called, amongst other things, *'A fat ugly Bastard'*



Which is still undisputed?


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## roomy (Sep 28, 2008)

Shattered said:


> Which is still undisputed?



Pictures...sometime...


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## xsited1 (Sep 28, 2008)

roomy said:


> The UK has a ban on smoking and everything smells like it should



The UK has a ban on everything.  It's becoming a Communist State.


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## KittenKoder (Sep 28, 2008)

xsited1 said:


> The UK has a ban on everything.  It's becoming a Communist State.



The UK is only imitating America, not their fault our own policies are getting stupid.


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## lolly (Sep 28, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> It won't work, the man hours required for the police alone are too much. Also, if they are mimicking us, the the business the smoker is nearest pays the fine not us. *grin*One saving grace that has hurt the morons who pushed for the stupid law, we just make sure we're in front of their businesses more.



How is Washington replacing the loss of the cig tax revenue?  As anti smoking makes more people quit smoking, the government loses the tax revenues.  Have they made new taxes to replace the loss in the cig tax revenue?

That lawsuit, where all the states got money to help people quit smoking, how did that play out in Washington?  Our politicians have turned it into a giant boondoggle.  They are making all sorts of good ole boy "investment" ventures that have nothing to do with smoking.


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## Shattered (Sep 28, 2008)

roomy said:


> Pictures...sometime...



Uh huh,


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## KittenKoder (Sep 28, 2008)

lolly said:


> How is Washington replacing the loss of the cig tax revenue?  As anti smoking makes more people quit smoking, the government loses the tax revenues.  Have they made new taxes to replace the loss in the cig tax revenue?
> 
> That lawsuit, where all the states got money to help people quit smoking, how did that play out in Washington?  Our politicians have turned it into a giant boondoggle.  They are making all sorts of good ole boy "investment" ventures that have nothing to do with smoking.



They haven't been able to, thus a big reason our economy is falling apart. Most smokers have gone, and are still going, to Indian Reservations for smokes. Smoke shops are vanishing. A sad point, they say smoking is down because tobacco sales are down, but that's because the res' don't submit their sales records as part of the states sales records.

As for helping people quit, they wasted it all on 'support groups', which have only a 5% success rate in anything. Then they raised the 'patches' and such to amounts that make smoking a cheaper alternative.


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## lolly (Sep 28, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> As for helping people quit, they wasted it all on 'support groups', which have only a 5% success rate in anything. Then they raised the 'patches' and such to amounts that make smoking a cheaper alternative.




Our state made scary commercials with a little of the money.  The rest went to pave the road in front of the politicians House.  None of the "venture investments" they have made have made it. 

They are raising the tax on alcohol to compensate for some of the lost cig revenue.

As the tax revenue on cigs goes down, they are declaring more things to be a "sin".  We have a prepared meals tax now.  There has been serious discussion about an additional tax on fast foods, but that has not happened yet.

It will be interesting to see how many new things become "sins", so they can raise sin taxes.


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## KittenKoder (Sep 28, 2008)

lolly said:


> Our state made scary commercials with a little of the money.  The rest went to pave the road in front of the politicians House.  None of the "venture investments" they have made have made it.
> 
> They are raising the tax on alcohol to compensate for some of the lost cig revenue.
> 
> ...



Pretty soon all we'll have are saltines and water ... oh wait, salt is bad for you to. Oh well, just water then. If they aren't stopped it will continue, we've seen this happen already, the trans-fats banners are already talking about banning ALL fat.


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## lolly (Sep 28, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> Pretty soon all we'll have are saltines and water .



LOL, and I am hearing disturbing things about our water.


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## xsited1 (Sep 28, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> The UK is only imitating America, not their fault our own policies are getting stupid.



Not America.  Perhaps places like San Francisco, but certainly not mainstream America.  The UK is imitating socialist countries in Europe.


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## Shogun (Sep 29, 2008)

roomy said:


> Hahahahahahaha... I would love it nancy boy.



well, at the VERY least you'll have a few gaps in your smile in which to put strait new teeth!


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## Shogun (Sep 29, 2008)

Anguille said:


> Invoke Hitler. Works everytime.
> 
> Letting everyone else make their own choice about inhaling your tar and nicotene is what not smoking around other people is all about, Big Boy.



sorry, just pointing out whose lap you'd sit on as long as they railed against smoking.. Would you prefer Charles Manson?  Satan, perhaps?


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## Shogun (Sep 29, 2008)

Anguille said:


> I'm not lying to you, Shoggs. You'll have more luck with the ladies if you ditch the cancer sticks. No one enjoys kissing as ashtray.



Are you kidding me?  I find that breath maintenance and having a big dick works quite well, Ang.  Trust me when I say that you do not speak for all women.


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## Huoliuhi (Sep 30, 2008)

bump up   then lurk


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## Luissa (Sep 30, 2008)

Shogun said:


> Are you kidding me?  I find that breath maintenance and having a big dick works quite well, Ang.  Trust me when I say that you do not speak for all women.


I think I see someone trying to over compensate. Do you drive a big truck too!


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## Shogun (Sep 30, 2008)

no.  an olds lss.  It has two cigarette car lighters side by side.  no kidding.


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## snowleopard (Oct 3, 2008)

Smoking is not just a personal choice type deal;  it affects others.  I don't want to inhale  cigarette smoke that floats off the end of your cancer stick.  If you are fat, i don't care, it doesn't hurt me or make me fat; if you are eating red meat, it won't give me heart disease, just you.  However, if you smoke, I get exposed to verified cancer causing agents and can't do anything about it.  I really wish that, as a waiter, I didn't have to endure the throat raping toxins that so many people love and just have to share.


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## Shattered (Oct 3, 2008)

snowleopard said:


> Smoking is not just a personal choice type deal;  it affects others.  I don't want to inhale  cigarette smoke that floats off the end of your cancer stick.  If you are fat, i don't care, it doesn't hurt me or make me fat; if you are eating red meat, it won't give me heart disease, just you.  However, if you smoke, I get exposed to verified cancer causing agents and can't do anything about it.  I really wish that, as a waiter, I didn't have to endure the throat raping toxins that so many people love and just have to share.



You don't.  You can choose to work in a non-smoking establishment, and you can *certainly* request to work a non-smoking section if available.


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## Shogun (Oct 3, 2008)

Shattered said:


> You don't.  You can choose to work in a non-smoking establishment, and you can *certainly* request to work a non-smoking section if available.



exactly.  take your fucking ass on down the road to the chucky cheese if you don't want to drink in a smoky bar.


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## Luissa (Oct 22, 2008)

Shogun said:


> exactly.  take your fucking ass on down the road to the chucky cheese if you don't want to drink in a smoky bar.


I wish the beer at Chucky Cheeses was alittle cheaper!


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