# Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism



## rylah (Sep 12, 2018)

*BDS activity against Israel on campus will be defined as anti-Semitism*
In the decision taken by Obama, it was determined that Judaism is a religion only, but the Trump administration changes the definition and determines that Judaism is also an ethnic origin. Meaning: Anti-Israel activity will be considered anti-Semitism in the US. 
Pro-Palestinian activists warn: the move will significantly harm our activities.

This is a significant change from the days of the Obama administration, when Judaism was defined as a religion only and therefore it could be fought without this being a violation of the law against anti-Semitism.The new definition means that opposition to Zionism will be considered anti-Semitic.

According to Marcus's letter to the American Zionist Organization, anyone who acts to "negate the right of the Jewish people to self-determination, on the grounds that the existence of the State of Israel is a racist act," will be considered an anti-Semite, Other pro-Palestinian activists in the US are already warning that the new move will harm the Palestinian cause and that virtually all such activity will be defined as anti-Semitic.
https://www.israelhayom.co.il/article/586301








I remember asking a BDS activist here on the forum,_ 'why is it so difficult for the organization to deal with the open anti-semitism in the rhetoric of their leaders and followers?'_
For an organization attempting so hard to draw an image of activism for 'human rights' , this should have been a most natural issue to deal according to accepted norms. However even when brought against the most vile examples among their ranks they have strangely refused to even face the issue, failing to see how it works against Palestinians and the BDS movement itself.

These tactics and strategy of non-cooperation and denial, have failed the Arabs for more than a century,
now that they've copied this failure on the global stage, they still refuse to see the reason why they, even if unintentionally, always end up playing for the other field.

*Q. Can BDS even start facing the antisemitism issue to begin with,*
*or is it going to be denial by default?*


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 12, 2018)

BDS is 100% anti semitic.


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## rylah (Sep 12, 2018)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> BDS is 100% anti semitic.



The question is,  are they capable to even start approaching the issue,
 or is it all rotten inside?


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## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

Opposing the actions of Israel’s government is not anti-semitism.


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## rylah (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


> Opposing the actions of Israel’s government is not anti-semitism.


This is not the issue, no one said it was,
 it becomes hate speech when one denies the Jewish people right to self determination, and uses double standards to attack Israeli policies otherwise not used against other countries.

But at the least it has to start with the basic acknowledgment of the boldest antisemitic rhetoric and imagery used in the BDS ranks. 

*Q. Is it going to be just denial? *


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## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

rylah said:


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Everybody has a right to self determination.  Well, except for non-Jewish people in Israel now.


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## rylah (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


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Same is Arab-Palestine, both of them, run by Sharia courts, but You have no problem with that.
This is called double standard, not used against any other nation but Israel, exactly what was expressed in the article, hence the Education Dept. move against the hate speech.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


> Opposing the actions of Israel’s government is not anti-semitism.



100% it is.


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## Indeependent (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


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Except for Blacks in India, the Muslim world and the African Continent that you so miss.


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## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

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Oppression by religion is condemned across the 1st world except for 1 country.


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## Indeependent (Sep 12, 2018)

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While oppresssion for race is alive and well.


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## rylah (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


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Are You out of Your mind? 
Just another case of total denial.


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## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

Indeependent said:


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Great standard to go by.  No wonder everybody’s pissed off at Israel all the time.


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## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

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Sounds to me like you are.


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## Indeependent (Sep 12, 2018)

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We’re hated because we have God directed standards.
You’re hated by people you love.


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## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

Indeependent said:


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Palestinians say the same thing.  You’re peas in a pod.


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## ILOVEISRAEL (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


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Another lie. Christians have not been killed, beheaded by Arabs? Abbas didn’t state No Israelis in “ Palestine?”


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## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


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Palestine is not the 1st world.  They are under embargo and are not allowed to govern themselves.  Also Arabs, Christians, and Jews kill eah other all the time going back thousands of years.  I won’t have sympathy for your religious madness.


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## Indeependent (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


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You worship the millions who treat you like slaves.
Ever see a starving Arab in Israel?
Me neither.


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## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

Indeependent said:


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I don’t worship anything you nutjob.  If I did, I’d want one side or the other in this debate dead the way you do.


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## Indeependent (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


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We know the target and extent of your hate.


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## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

Indeependent said:


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You hated Obama’s government, right?  I guess that means you hate America and Americans.  We know the target and extent of your hate.

See how that works?


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## PredFan (Sep 12, 2018)

There’s a Facebook page from a company that imports products from Israel to counter the BDS bull shit. You pay monthly and receive products from small businesses and companies in Israel. I got my first box on Monday and it was a nice assortment of items.

I recommend it to anyone who wants to help Israel fight this garbage. I am currently not at my home or computer and the name of the company is a Hebrew name that I can barely pronounce or spell let alone remember. When I get home I’ll post it.


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## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

PredFan said:


> There’s a Facebook page from a company that imports products from Israel to counter the BDS bull shit. You pay monthly and receive products from small businesses and companies in Israel. I got my first box on Monday and it was a nice assortment of items.
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> I recommend it to anyone who wants to help Israel fight this garbage. I am currently not at my home or computer and the name of the company is a Hebrew name that I can barely pronounce or spell let alone remember. When I get home I’ll post it.


Yeah pile up some extra shit for your garage buying foreign products!  Don’t buy American!


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## PredFan (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


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Fell free to fuck off dipshit.


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


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What we do not buy is your hatred for Jews, Israel and any country which is pro both.

Now you see how it works.


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## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

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Where are Nike’s made?  If the hurricane doesn’t kill us all here, that’s what I’m getting this weekend


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## PredFan (Sep 12, 2018)

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Seriously. You are free to fuck off. Get going dipshit.


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## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


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I don’t hate Jews or Israel.  I certainly oppose their government’s policies.


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 12, 2018)

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I certainly oppose the Muslims and Christians  who think they own the world, and can dictate if the Indigenous people of the Land of Israel can have any part of their ancient land or not.
Which has been going on since 1920.

Now, if you hate the fact that Israel allows Muslims and Christians to not only live in Israel but have all the rights they would not get in many Muslim countries (where they would not dare move).......that is absolutely your right.
If you would like for all of those non Jews to move out of Israel (which is not an Israeli policy), by all means start a petition or offer it to BDS as their next idea to go against Israel.

You clearly do not know what the policies of Israel are.  You could not name one which actually goes against human rights, or attempts to defend only the Jews of the country.

In other words, you hide behind your " I don't hate Jews or Israel", when you clearly could not care less about either Exactly because it is a country which is sovereign by Jews, for the Jews protection and they refuse to roll over and die as it is expected of them.


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## member (Sep 12, 2018)

Indeependent said:


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is that just a guess? ........off-handedly - making it sound like _*"Black Flag"*_ may be black _and_ muslim ? 

​





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i have no idea - 

 *girl*, 

 *boy*, black, white...........even though he/she has a picture of kaespernack, he could be... chinese for all i know........




i know whoever *Flag* is....he/she is an 

 agnostic/atheist.



Sorry about that 

 *Flag*.


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## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

member said:


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I see you’ve been defeated by the terrorists


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 12, 2018)

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And you dare to tell us that you will buy "American".

Although the main Nike headquarters is located in Beaverton, Oregon, the athletic shoes that Nike provides to consumers worldwide are produced in hundreds of factories around the world, and have never been produced in factories in the United States. The largest producers of Nike shoes are the factories located in China, Vietnam and Indonesia, although dozens of other countries also contain Nike factories; these countries include Malaysia, Pakistan, India and Thailand.

How Are Nike Shoes Produced?


Not only not "American" but many include countries which are Human Rights violators.


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 12, 2018)

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None of that is important in the discussion on this thread.  Thanks.


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## ILOVEISRAEL (Sep 12, 2018)

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YAWN...  Nothing about “ No Israelis in Palestine “


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 12, 2018)

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Absolutely meaningless sentence.


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## Shusha (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


> Opposing the actions of Israel’s government is not anti-semitism.



We agree.  Opposing the rights of the Jewish people and the State of Israel as expressed in identical ways by other ethnic and national Peoples IS anti-semitism, though

Here's a list of some BDS protest signs.  Legitimate criticism of Israel's government actions or anti-semitism?

"Gaza is the current day Holocaust"
"From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free"
"Israel is an apartheid state"
"Resistance is a right"
"Jews are terrorists"
"Israel steals Palestinian water"
"911 was a Zionist job"
"Gaza is the Warsaw Ghetto"
"Israel: no right to exist"
"Everything about Israel is illegal"
"State of Israel terrorizing its neighbors and the whole world since 1948"
"Jews haven't learned they need Nazis more than before"
"Racist state"
"Israel is humanities number 1 enemy"
"If you are trying to humanize the oppressor, that's a problem"


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## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

Shusha said:


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Yes Israel’s government has inspired a lot of passion against them with their actions.


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## Shusha (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


> Everybody has a right to self determination.  Well, except for non-Jewish people in Israel now.



THAT is an interesting statement.  At least we agree that all peoples have a right to self-determination, including both the Arab Palestinian people and the Jewish people.  I hope we also agree that each peoples has a right to national self-determination.  

The next question is whether or not groups of each peoples have a right to national self-determination in EVERY place or only in specific places.  For example, do the Jewish people in Germany have a right to national self-determination in Germany?  That is -- do they have a right to form an independent nation in territory currently under German sovereignty?  And also in US territory?  And also in Canada, in the UK, in Argentina, in Iran, in Morocco?  You get the point, right?  The Jewish people have the right to national self-determination in their historical homeland.  

I am of Irish ancestry.  I live in Canada.  If I want to avail myself of my Irish nationality I must go to Ireland.

It is the same with Arab Palestinian people.  They do not have a right to self-determination as an independent nation everywhere they find themselves, but only in their homeland.  We agree?

Therefore, non-Jews living in Israel have full rights to equality and fair treatment, but do not have rights to a national self-determination in Israel.  That national self-determination can only exist in Palestine.  

The problem is that we haven't  determined where Israel ends and Palestine begins.  That is the subject of a peace treaty.  The RIGHT to self-determination exists for both peoples.  It is recognized by Israel as a right for Arab Palestinians.  It is not yet a reality for many reasons.  But the right exists.


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## EasyPeasy (Sep 12, 2018)

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And who might that be?


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## Shusha (Sep 12, 2018)

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Denial.  You label it as "passion" instead of correctly identifying it for what it is.  Do better.  That's the point of this thread.


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## Indeependent (Sep 12, 2018)

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Please let me know when you find a post of mine that is any more critical of Obama than the Repugnishits.


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## Shusha (Sep 12, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> You clearly do not know what the policies of Israel are.  You could not name one which actually goes against human rights, or attempts to defend only the Jews of the country.



Colossal ignorance and parroting of "sound bytes" is a constant problem when trying to discuss *cough cough* the policies of the Israeli government.  Many (even most) arguing against Israel have no idea what the actual legal documents, policies, treaties and governing customary law say.


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## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

Shusha said:


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Jews in Germany have as much right to self-determination as anybody else.  In Israel, if a bunch of Jews, having the right to self-determination of course, decided to form a new nation smack in the middle of Israel; let’s say 500 square miles of land; could they do it?


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## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

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If I were an oppressed person, I’d probably hold signs like that against my oppressor too.  As another example, I don’t fault Malcolm X at all for advocating different action in the U.S. than what MLK proposed.


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## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

EasyPeasy said:


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Which nation in the 1st world has passed a motion that only members of one religion have a right to self-determination in that nation?


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## Shusha (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


> Jews in Germany have as much right to self-determination as anybody else.  In Israel, if a bunch of Jews, having the right to self-determination of course, decided to form a new nation smack in the middle of Israel; let’s say 500 square miles of land; could they do it?



Really?  We are discussing NATIONAL self-determination here -- the right to create a State and have full sovereignty over territory.  You think that a group of Chinese in San Francisco should be able to create their own nation there?  And that Italians in New York City should be able to carve out a territory out of Manhattan and start their own country there?


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## Shusha (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


> If I were an oppressed person, I’d probably hold signs like that against my oppressor too.



Identifying Jews or Israel as "oppressor" is problematic.  But, even so, I am not arguing against your wish to hold a sign -- I'm arguing that not all signs are legitimate criticisms of Israel's government's policies.  And those which are not are hate speech.  Specifically, anti-semitism.  

The question remains, as the point of this thread, WHY are people like you in such denial?  And willing to give hate speech like this a pass?


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## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

Shusha said:


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That’s how the UN created Israel.  Israel has since established a theocracy and declared that Jews have special rights.  They have a special right to self determination there, where as in Germany, for example, they have an equal right to self determination as anybody else.


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## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

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Yeah, “problematic” for Israel.  As it is for all oppressors.  I give SOME of it a pass because if I lived under embargo with secondary rights and the constant threat of attack and no hope for justice, I’d consider making signs like that against the people doing that to me too.


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## Shusha (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


> That’s how the UN created Israel.  Israel has since established a theocracy and declared that Jews have special rights.  They have a special right to self determination there, where as in Germany, for example, they have an equal right to self determination as anybody else.



Here we go with the ignorance.  The UN did not "create" Israel.  Israel declared independence just like every other State in the world.  Israel is not a theocracy.  And there is not a single law in Israel which gives Jews special rights -- all are equal.

All peoples have the right to self-determination, right?  All peoples have a right to national self-determination, right?  Where else if not in their historical homeland?  Yes, the Jewish people have a special right to form their nation (State) in a specific territory BECAUSE it is their historical homeland.  

Surely you are not going to argue that Arab Palestinians have a right to self-determination, but in Uganda or Brazil and not in Palestine, are you?


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## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

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You equate “self-determination” with “national self-determination,” which is nonsense.  The only “right” by which Israel was created was the same as every other nation.  Some people picked some land and killed or evicted as many people as they needed to to hold that land.

Don’t make me laugh about everyone having the “same rights” either.  Not everyone has the right of return, not everyone has a right to self-determibation, not everyone has the right to leave whenever they want to, not everyone has their home destroyed if a family member commits a crime, and on and on.


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## RoccoR (Sep 12, 2018)

RE:  BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
※→  et al,

In its "purest form," I _(personally)_ don't consider the BDS Movement to be anti-Semitic.  But in recent years, the movement has taken on a newer complexion; one that transitioned from a political/economic movement, through an anti-Israeli phase and has become very anti-semitic.  It is a matter of how and what material they present when they hop, skip and jump from one college community to the next.  The question as to whether the activities of the BDS are formulating a hatred against the single greatest ally in the Middle East (State of Israel) as anti-Semitic.  



			
				Official BDS Movement Web Site said:
			
		

> The Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) movement works to end international support for Israel's oppression of Palestinians and pressure Israel to comply with international law.


*(COMMENT)*

US politics and the American Domestice Landscape is shifting.

The open pressuring of entertainment personalities, science lecturers, industry production and commercial trade by BDS satellite movements is an incitement to violence and an attempt to show solidarity and approval of with the criminal behaviors of the Arab Palestinians.  

You may recall that I, several years ago, considered the BDS Movement to be a legitimate means of political protest.  This is not the first time that the Jewish People have faced a national level Boycott, Hitler had commanded a boycott of Jewish businesses in 1933.  It is nothing new.  However, the Arab Palestinians are not (in any way shape or form) attempting to introduce any assemblance law and order; with the self-governing body that supports programs for the general population.  The BDS Movement is not in the habit of putting together a culture anywhere near that of Israel → even when donor nations produce the necessary revenue to build the new infrastructure.  Nor does the BDS Movement support the principles of international law concerning friendly relations and co-operation among States.  There is absolutely no attempt by the political opponents to try and pursue in good faith negotiations for the settlement of their international disputes. The BDS Movement attempts to paint and present a favorable image of the nebulous regime behind the Arab Palestinian people.  The BDS Movement attempts to pass itself off as a program of Public Enlightenment and Education about the sense and plight of the Arab Palestinian as if they were the downtrodden underdog.  (Never mentioning the contributions major donors → in the Billions per year.)



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The manner and type of presentation of most BDS Activities are immediately to impress the audience that Israel is the principal cause of all problems facing the Arab Palestinians.  Because each BDS presentation only presents one side of the story.  And while Israel is not perfect, the Arab Palestinian cannot reasonably expect the Israelis to take a punch and not respond. 

Most Respectfully,
R


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## Shusha (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


> Yeah, “problematic” for Israel.  As it is for all oppressors.  I give SOME of it a pass because if I lived under embargo with secondary rights and the constant threat of attack and no hope for justice, I’d consider making signs like that against the people doing that to me too.



rylah 

I think this response gives us a clue as to why BDS supporters are in such denial about their anti-semitism.

1.  They remove all responsibility from one of the actors (in this case the Arab Palestinians).  The activities of that particular actor are made invisible.

2.  They justify hatred of the other actor within the frame of that invisibility of responsibility.  

3.  They apply hatred collectively to each member of the group, making each individual member responsible for the actions of the collective actor within that frame of invisibility of responsibility for the other actor, both individually and collectively.

4.  They appeal to emotion as a way of justifying hatred.  They give themselves permission to hate.




BlackFlag 

You state you give SOME of it a pass.  Of the examples I gave -- what would you NOT give a pass to?


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## Shusha (Sep 12, 2018)

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You don't seem to have a very good handle on what you mean by self-determination. 

The Jewish people have a right to national self-determination (to form a State which represents and protects their particular culture, language, traditions and history) in their historical homeland.  Yes or no?

The Arab Palestinian people have a right to national self-determination (to form a State which represents and protects their particular culture, language, traditions and history) in their historical homeland.  Yes or no?

I say yes to both.  Do you?


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## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

Shusha said:


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You are guilty of all 4 of those things.  You remove Israel’s government from any responsibility, you justify hatred for Palestinians  within the frame of invisibility for that respinsibility, you apply hatred collectively to each member of the group, and you appeal to emotion to justify hatred (pretending anybody that opposes the actions of Israel’s government as hating Jewish people)


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 12, 2018)

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53+ mostly Muslim countries. ONE mostly Jewish country. STFU.


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## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

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No.  Nobody inherently has that right.  You either form a country through agreements with those around you, or you take land away from others to make your country.  Declaring a place where other people live as your country because you claim historic rights is no different than just taking land away from others.  Instant of historical nonsense, colonists during colonial times claimed a divine mandate to bring religion and civilization to others; that too was actually just taking land from others.  Israel will not continue exising becaise of some historical mandate; it will exist as long as it can defend itself like any other country.  Pissing off the world by oppressing descendants and sympathizers of the people who used to govern that land is not the best idea.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 12, 2018)

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If they are unhappy they should move


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 12, 2018)

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Jews, or any other group of non indigenous Germans have the right to create a State within Germany in order to create a State for themselves?

You clearly do NOT know the meaning of self-determination and are simply throwing pasta against the walls.

Whatever sticks to you.....


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## Shusha (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


> You are guilty of all 4 of those things.  You remove Israel’s government from any responsibility, you justify hatred for Palestinians  within the frame of invisibility for that respinsibility, you apply hatred collectively to each member of the group, and you appeal to emotion to justify hatred (pretending anybody that opposes the actions of Israel’s government as hating Jewish people)



If you have examples of me doing any of those things, please provide and I will address.  

Since you have already provided one, I will address it here and now.  I do not claim that anyone opposing the actions of Israel's government hates the Jewish people.  I very clearly distinguish between valid and real criticism of Israel's government policies and generalized hate speech toward Israel and the Jewish people.  

For example, claiming that Gaza is equivalent to the Warsaw Ghetto is not a valid criticism of Israel's government policy.  Wanna know how I know?  It doesn't provide Israel's government policy.  Claiming Gaza is equivalent to the Warsaw Ghetto is grossly ignorant of the reasons for and the conditions of the particular event.  Wanna know how I know?  Because I've researched it and understand the facts.  Claiming that Gaza is equivalent to the Warsaw Ghetto is demonizing.  It is an emotional appeal.  And it subverts an atrocity.  Wanna know how I know?  Because there is no space in that statement to provide objective and researched facts.  Its hate speech pure and simple.  

In contrast, you mentioned the destruction of the homes of terrorists by Israel.  That IS valid criticism of Israel's government policy.  It labels a specific policy.  It leaves space for discussion centered around facts and objective analysis.  (Btw, I agree with you this policy is unacceptable and I condemn it).


----------



## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


LOLOL

You don’t even have any idea why that’s funny, do you


----------



## Sixties Fan (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > BlackFlag said:
> ...


The people who governed the Land of Israel, for 700 years, were the Turks.  Are you telling us that the Turks have the right to the Land of Israel and any and all land they used to govern over, OVER the indigenous people of any of those territories?

You continue to not know what you are talking about.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > BlackFlag said:
> ...



It wasn't meant to be funny. Muslims were conquered, time to go. Only thing funny about you is your stupid face.


----------



## Shusha (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


> You either form a country through agreements with those around you,


Um.  You DO know that Israel HAS agreements with her neighbors, right?



> No.  Nobody inherently has that right.


Now you seem to be saying that no one has the right to national self-determination.  [/quote]



> Declaring a place where other people live as your country because you claim historic rights is no different than just taking land away from others.


Okay.  So Palestine can't just declare a country where Israelis live.  Because that would be taking land away from others. Right.



> Israel will not continue exising becaise of some historical mandate; it will exist as long as it can defend itself like any other country.


And now you are saying the rights of peoples to self-determination arise from their ability to conquer, hold and defend territory.  You are all over the place.  Which is it?


----------



## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

Shusha said:


> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> > You are guilty of all 4 of those things.  You remove Israel’s government from any responsibility, you justify hatred for Palestinians  within the frame of invisibility for that respinsibility, you apply hatred collectively to each member of the group, and you appeal to emotion to justify hatred (pretending anybody that opposes the actions of Israel’s government as hating Jewish people)
> ...


I don’t know about the warsaw ghetto and never made that comparison.  I’m just a typical person and when I see “Israel attacks Gaza after rockets fired” I think “oh yeah that’s a good idea they need to defend themselves.”  Then when I see “Israel has 10+ year land and air embargo of Gaza” I think “wow if I were in Gaza that would really piss me off.”

I weigh all the information I see from both sides and my conclusion is that Israel has all the power in this debate, they are not interested in Palestinian concerns because they don’t need to be, there are thousands of years of religious dogma infecting the issue, and at the end of the day one group suffers and another prospers.  This happens in many places around the world, but for some reason as an American I’m supposed to champion Israel when I think so many of their problems are of their own making and that they are at least as guilty of any wrongs as those who call themselves Palestinian.

That is how many (I suspect most) people in the world feel about the issue.  Then the side with all the power comes out totally unnecessarily to say only Jewish people have a right to self-determination there?  That same year they declare the basic demand for peace terms of East Jerusalem to be dismissed, to hell with the weaker party?  They celebrate aid cuts to Palestine?  And the illegal settlements, the over the top military responses, Netanyahu warning that Arabs are voting so Jews need to drown those votes out, etc.  How do you think any of that will change my mind?  Am I anti-semitic for not liking that, despite pretty fiercely defending and voting for Jewish people here in the U.S.?


----------



## Shusha (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


> I don’t know about the warsaw ghetto and never made that comparison.  I’m just a typical person and when I see “Israel attacks Gaza after rockets fired” I think “oh yeah that’s a good idea they need to defend themselves.”  Then when I see “Israel has 10+ year land and air embargo of Gaza” I think “wow if I were in Gaza that would really piss me off.”
> 
> I weigh all the information I see from both sides and my conclusion is that Israel has all the power in this debate, they are not interested in Palestinian concerns because they don’t need to be, there are thousands of years of religious dogma infecting the issue, and at the end of the day one group suffers and another prospers.  This happens in many places around the world, but for some reason as an American I’m supposed to champion Israel when I think so many of their problems are of their own making and that they are at least as guilty of any wrongs as those who call themselves Palestinian.
> 
> That is how many (I suspect most) people in the world feel about the issue.  Then the side with all the power comes out totally unnecessarily to say only Jewish people have a right to self-determination there?  That same year they declare the basic demand for peace terms of East Jerusalem to be dismissed, to hell with the weaker party?  They celebrate aid cuts to Palestine?  And the illegal settlements, the over the top military responses, Netanyahu warning that Arabs are voting so Jews need to drown those votes out, etc.  How do you think any of that will change my mind?  Am I anti-semitic for not liking that, despite pretty fiercely defending and voting for Jewish people here in the U.S.?



The point I am trying to make, in the context of this thread, is that solutions to the problem can not be found when we use hate speech rather than discussing actual policies.  It not only useless in finding solutions -- it damages the process.

Agree or disagree?

No one should be given a PASS on using hate speech.  

(And, btw, I disagree that Israel has all the power.  The March of Return is proof enough of that.)


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## Shusha (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


> I’m just a typical person and when I see “Israel attacks Gaza after rockets fired” I think “oh yeah that’s a good idea they need to defend themselves.”  Then when I see “Israel has 10+ year land and air embargo of Gaza” I think “wow if I were in Gaza that would really piss me off.”



Its interesting you think it is permissible for Israel to defend herself using military strategy and yet are "pissed off" when they use non-military tactics like an embargo.  Those are both defense mechanisms.  Against the problem.  Which is that the government of Gaza keeps attacking Israel.

Israel's goal with Gaza is, and has always been, to defend herself against attacks from Gaza.  The solution to the problem isn't complicated.  Just.  Stop.  Attacking.  Your.  Neighbor.


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## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

Shusha said:


> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> > I don’t know about the warsaw ghetto and never made that comparison.  I’m just a typical person and when I see “Israel attacks Gaza after rockets fired” I think “oh yeah that’s a good idea they need to defend themselves.”  Then when I see “Israel has 10+ year land and air embargo of Gaza” I think “wow if I were in Gaza that would really piss me off.”
> ...


I’d say agree except if the palestinians that are angry enough at Israel to use hate speech were made to stop using hate speech, I doubt it would change a single thing.  I think the most likely thing that would do is convince Israel that the Palestinian movement was drying up and inspire them to accelerate settlement building and other counterproductive activities that disregard any peace process.


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## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

Shusha said:


> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> > I’m just a typical person and when I see “Israel attacks Gaza after rockets fired” I think “oh yeah that’s a good idea they need to defend themselves.”  Then when I see “Israel has 10+ year land and air embargo of Gaza” I think “wow if I were in Gaza that would really piss me off.”
> ...


The cycle was going on long before the current government in Gaza was in power.  You cannot tell an oppressed people to just suck it up and accept it.  That’s how you get decades of violence like has happened there and will continue to happen there.


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## Shusha (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


> I’d say agree except if the palestinians that are angry enough at Israel to use hate speech were made to stop using hate speech, I doubt it would change a single thing.  I think the most likely thing that would do is convince Israel that the Palestinian movement was drying up and inspire them to accelerate settlement building and other counterproductive activities that disregard any peace process.



You are justifying hate speech again.  Worse, you are justifying hate speech as a solution to a problem rather than as part of the problem.  Its akin to saying, "I can't stop beating my wife.  If I stopped beating my wife, she would just take over the house." Instead of working out a reasonable, shared, mutually satisfying plan for a good relationship.


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## Shusha (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


> The cycle was going on long before the current government in Gaza was in power.  You cannot tell an oppressed people to just suck it up and accept it.  That’s how you get decades of violence like has happened there and will continue to happen there.



I am NOT telling them to suck it up and accept it.  In fact, the opposite.  I am telling them they (and only they) have full agency over their choices.  I am telling them that the solution to the problem is to: Stop.  Attacking.  Your.  Neighbor.  Its in their hands.  They are perfectly capable of being the agents for change and peace.  They are, in fact, the only ones capable of doing this.


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## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

Shusha said:


> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> > I’d say agree except if the palestinians that are angry enough at Israel to use hate speech were made to stop using hate speech, I doubt it would change a single thing.  I think the most likely thing that would do is convince Israel that the Palestinian movement was drying up and inspire them to accelerate settlement building and other counterproductive activities that disregard any peace process.
> ...


I can’t believe you’re stuck on hate speech.  If the beaten wife called her husband an asshole,  does that mean it’s her fault for the beatings?  Also, the husband has given her zero reason to believe he wants a reasonable, shared, mutually satisfying plan for a good relationship and seems plenty happy with the way things are other than the looks his neighbors give him for beating his wife.


----------



## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

Shusha said:


> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> > The cycle was going on long before the current government in Gaza was in power.  You cannot tell an oppressed people to just suck it up and accept it.  That’s how you get decades of violence like has happened there and will continue to happen there.
> ...


The Israeli equivalent of Palestinian mentality right there.  I guess the cycle will continue.


----------



## Shusha (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


> I can’t believe you’re stuck on hate speech.



To be fair, that is the topic of this thread.


----------



## Shusha (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > BlackFlag said:
> ...



There is no 'cycle'.  Gaza attacks.  Israel responds.  No attacks = no response.   No attacks = peace.  No attacks eventually = end of embargo, mutual co-operation, a viable economy for Gaza.  

Are you arguing that Gaza is incapable of having agency over their own actions?  Are they compelled by some unknown force to attack Israel repeatedly?


----------



## BlackFlag (Sep 12, 2018)

Shusha said:


> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


Why does Gaza attack?


----------



## Shusha (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


> Why does Gaza attack?



Are you going to justify terrorism and war crimes now?

Gaza attacks because they CHOOSE to use violence as a means to pressure Israel into responding in order to demonize Israel and solicit (unwarranted) international sympathy for their "plight" (which they are the agents of).  Gaza attacks Israel in order to turn themselves into "victims" of the "evil Jews" and thus justify their own terrorism and violence.  Gaza attacks Israel because they hold the fundamental ideology that Jewish people have no rights and no claim to Jewish historical and indigenous homeland and that once conquered, Islamic land remains Islamic land in perpetuity.  Gaza attacks Israel because the GOAL is not to enter into peaceful relations with another neighboring people but to deny that neighboring people any right to exist as a national entity, and eventually, as a separate and distinct people.  And even further along, in the most extremist religious terms, to survive and exist at all.

If the GOAL was to achieve peace, a strong economy and good international relations the answer is to stop attacking your neighbors.


----------



## RoccoR (Sep 12, 2018)

RE:  BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
 ※→  BlackFlag, et al,

Well, I would like to slide in here.



BlackFlag said:


> ⇒  I’m just a typical person and when I see “Israel attacks Gaza after rockets fired” I think “oh yeah that’s a good idea they need to defend themselves.”  Then when I see “Israel has 10+ year land and air embargo of Gaza” I think “wow if I were in Gaza that would really piss me off.”


*(COMMENT)*

The rocket fire and attacks began to intensify after the Israelis unilaterally withdrew from Gaza.  In fact, the Israelis had a fighting withdraw.   The attacks are initiated by the Arab Palestinians.  And you can almost make-out a pattern _(almost a wave function)_.








  As you can see from the Global Terrorism Database (GTD), looking at just HAMAS, you can see that the exchange of attacks started almost as soon as the ink dried on the PLO Declaration of Independence.

And the Arab Palestinians did not open hostilities then, the conflict started with the solemn oath the Palestinians made in February 1948 (even before the existence of Israel). 


BlackFlag said:


> I weigh all the information I see from both sides and my conclusion is that Israel has all the power in this debate, they are not interested in Palestinian concerns because they don’t need to be, there are thousands of years of religious dogma infecting the issue, and at the end of the day one group suffers and another prospers.  This happens in many places around the world, but for some reason as an American, I’m supposed to champion Israel when I think so many of their problems are of their own making and that they are at least as guilty of any wrongs as those who call themselves Palestinian.
> 
> The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history,
> that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.
> ...


----------



## rylah (Sep 12, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > BlackFlag said:
> ...



You're trying to evade the subject, when the question is beyond simple.
*Should antisemitism be condemned by BDS?*


----------



## PredFan (Sep 12, 2018)

Repost with info:

There’s a Facebook page from a company that imports products from Israel to counter the BDS bull shit. You pay monthly and receive products from small businesses and companies in Israel. I got my first box on Monday and it was a nice assortment of items.

I recommend it to anyone who wants to help Israel fight this garbage. The company's name is Lev Haolam you can find their page on facebook, and I'm pretty sure they have a web page too.


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## rylah (Sep 12, 2018)

Shusha said:


> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, “problematic” for Israel.  As it is for all oppressors.  I give SOME of it a pass because if I lived under embargo with secondary rights and the constant threat of attack and no hope for justice, I’d consider making signs like that against the people doing that to me too.
> ...



This is a recognizable pattern of a tactic.
It seems more and more that the reason for the strategy of total denial and cover up, is so bold and grotesque that it's usually pushed aside.

Antisemitic rhetoric, unfortunately, is a proven recruiting strategy for mass movements aiming to destabilize western societies.


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## ILOVEISRAEL (Sep 12, 2018)

Shusha said:


> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> > I’d say agree except if the palestinians that are angry enough at Israel to use hate speech were made to stop using hate speech, I doubt it would change a single thing.  I think the most likely thing that would do is convince Israel that the Palestinian movement was drying up and inspire them to accelerate settlement building and other counterproductive activities that disregard any peace process.
> ...



Why are you bothering with this Jerk?   He just can’t stand the fact that Israel exists.


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## RoccoR (Sep 12, 2018)

_et al_

*PLEASE* Disregard Posting #69.

Somehow it became scrambled-up in publishing.

V/R
R


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## member (Sep 12, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> _et al_
> 
> *PLEASE* Disregard Posting #69.
> 
> ...



_*"Disregard Posting #69."*_

you mean black flag's post ?  ...is this not post #69?




"I’d say agree except if the palestinians that are angry enough at Israel to use hate speech were made to stop using hate speech, I doubt it would change a single thing.  I think the most likely thing that would do is convince Israel that the Palestinian movement was drying up and inspire them to accelerate settlement building and other counterproductive activities that disregard any peace process.."



if you meant one of your posts...





....very...educational (_ova heer_)....





 i get it.....LoL.


everybody's posts! .... from joe 

 to the debaters/crusaders 

  to terrorist supporters [which i find .....a bit to be on the...sociopath/psychopath side)  .......but none-the-less - 

 riveting.


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 13, 2018)

Shusha said:


> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> > Opposing the actions of Israel’s government is not anti-semitism.
> ...


Mostly true. Some are over the top.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 13, 2018)

Shusha said:


> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> > Jews in Germany have as much right to self-determination as anybody else.  In Israel, if a bunch of Jews, having the right to self-determination of course, decided to form a new nation smack in the middle of Israel; let’s say 500 square miles of land; could they do it?
> ...


Why not?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 13, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE:  BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
> ※→  et al,
> 
> In its "purest form," I _(personally)_ don't consider the BDS Movement to be anti-Semitic.  But in recent years, the movement has taken on a newer complexion; one that transitioned from a political/economic movement, through an anti-Israeli phase and has become very anti-semitic.  It is a matter of how and what material they present when they hop, skip and jump from one college community to the next.  The question as to whether the activities of the BDS are formulating a hatred against the single greatest ally in the Middle East (State of Israel) as anti-Semitic.
> ...





RoccoR said:


> Nor does the BDS Movement support the principles of international law concerning friendly relations and co-operation among States. There is absolutely no attempt by the political opponents to try and pursue in good faith negotiations for the settlement of their international disputes.


What do you mean by that?


RoccoR said:


> The manner and type of presentation of most BDS Activities are immediately to impress the audience that Israel is the principal cause of all problems facing the Arab Palestinians.


What problems do they have that are not related to Israel?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 13, 2018)

Shusha said:


> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


You don't.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 13, 2018)

Shusha said:


> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, “problematic” for Israel.  As it is for all oppressors.  I give SOME of it a pass because if I lived under embargo with secondary rights and the constant threat of attack and no hope for justice, I’d consider making signs like that against the people doing that to me too.
> ...





Shusha said:


> 1. They remove all responsibility from one of the actors (in this case the Arab Palestinians).


How was it the Palestinians were responsible for foreigners stealing their country?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 13, 2018)

Shusha said:


> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> > I’m just a typical person and when I see “Israel attacks Gaza after rockets fired” I think “oh yeah that’s a good idea they need to defend themselves.”  Then when I see “Israel has 10+ year land and air embargo of Gaza” I think “wow if I were in Gaza that would really piss me off.”
> ...


Indeed, Israel has to defend its settler colonial project.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 13, 2018)

Shusha said:


> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> > I’d say agree except if the palestinians that are angry enough at Israel to use hate speech were made to stop using hate speech, I doubt it would change a single thing.  I think the most likely thing that would do is convince Israel that the Palestinian movement was drying up and inspire them to accelerate settlement building and other counterproductive activities that disregard any peace process.
> ...


Why is pointing out Israel's violations considered hate?


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 13, 2018)

Shusha said:


> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> > Why does Gaza attack?
> ...


You are a hoot.

Did you make that shit up by yourself?


----------



## Natural Citizen (Sep 13, 2018)

Abolish the Department of Education.  It’s unconstitutional, it's a waste of taxpayer money and it has been consistently detrimental to the quality of education in America.

We used to run on abolishing it. What happened?


----------



## Natural Citizen (Sep 13, 2018)

And quit stealing money from the taxpayers to send to Israel, too, while I'm thinking about  it. The ungrateful thieves...


----------



## Natural Citizen (Sep 13, 2018)

And another thing. Kick their lobby outta Washington, too. Why the heck does Israel have a lobby in the halls of Congress to influence the electorate's affairs anyway?

We've got millions of Americans living on the streets of our own nation, yet we're more interested in Israel's  affairs and feels. Phhhht.

Priorities people...


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 13, 2018)

rylah said:


> *BDS activity against Israel on campus will be defined as anti-Semitism*
> In the decision taken by Obama, it was determined that Judaism is a religion only, but the Trump administration changes the definition and determines that Judaism is also an ethnic origin. Meaning: Anti-Israel activity will be considered anti-Semitism in the US.
> Pro-Palestinian activists warn: the move will significantly harm our activities.
> 
> ...





rylah said:


> Meaning: Anti-Israel activity will be considered anti-Semitism in the US.





RoccoR said:


> The rocket fire and attacks began to intensify after the Israelis unilaterally withdrew from Gaza.


The new rule is based on lies and runs afoul of the constitution.

I don't see how they can get this pig to fly.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 13, 2018)

rylah said:


> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...


BDS is the Palestinian's call to end the occupation.

Israel singles itself out by being the only one in that category.


----------



## Hollie (Sep 13, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > BlackFlag said:
> ...



Actually, BDS is just another expression of Jew hatred that has a 1400 year old history in Islamism.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 13, 2018)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...


So, who else occupies Palestine?


----------



## Hollie (Sep 13, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



What other hate and war manual, your Korans, has explicit references to Jew hatreds?


----------



## RoccoR (Sep 13, 2018)

RE:  BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

As Professor Chomsky says, the BDS Movement is a "tactic."  The BDS Movement has nothing to do with the principles behind which the Palestinians are helped.  The objective of the BDS Movement is to inflict economic damage to Israel and a platform by which the spread irresponsible charges and complex accusations about the _(Israeli - Palestinian)_ conflict in such a manner by sketching the Arab Palestinian angelic like a victim and painting the Israelis as a demonic and sinister entity creeping across the territorial landscape dispensing cruel and unjust treatment _(as if the Arab Palestinians have never given Israel just cause for the for Article 43 HR action)_. 



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > Nor does the BDS Movement support the principles of international law concerning friendly relations and co-operation among States. There is absolutely no attempt by the political opponents to try and pursue in good faith negotiations for the settlement of their international disputes.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

"Good faith is fair and open dealing in human interactions. This is often thought to require sincere, honest intentions or belief, regardless of the outcome of an action."  (Wikipedia)

The BDS Movement supports accusatory actions technically untrue.  It suggests that the Physical Security Barriers between Israel and the West Bank - or - Israel and the Gaza Strip are a form of "apartheid."  The BDS Movement could allege that the barrier separates through conflict two cultures → the Arab and the Israeli _(albeit one more Middle Eastern and one more western)_; BUT! the barrier does not represent a separation between "races" or "religions."   The BDS Movement uses this false accusation _(like "Apartheid)_ to draw out the sympathy of the audience.  But by advancing the idea that territorial separations are the same as "apartheid" only diminishes the validity of such a program when the audience learns that the accusation is used in an improper fashion _(children using words they don't understand)_.


 ​
"The crime of apartheid" means inhumane acts ... committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over another racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime;​
It is an example of misinformation to invoke a negative emotion.

One more sub-point.  The "Wall" - the physical security barrier is nothing more than the actualization of the right to sovereign territorial integrity.  
On the second level, the BDS Movement is NOT an "advocacy" program for the Arab Palestinians.  Nothing it does advocates the direct help of the (so-called) Arab Palestinian Victims.  In fact, the BDS Movement may in some cases, actually wound the Arab Palestinians.  The Company "Sodastream" laid-off 500 Arab Palestinian employees.  _(Lost Employment Opportunities!)_



 ​
Was the BDS Movement helpful in the cause of the Arab Palestinian people? _(RHETORICAL) _ Did it help Ala al-Qabbani when he lost his job when Sodastream pulled-out of the West Bank? _(RHETORICAL)_

Finally, the BDS Movement claims to be an advocate, but supports "unrealistic" demands.  The (so-called) "Right of Return" (RoR) is an example.  The RoR is merely a masked demand for the destruction of the "Jewish National Home" (JNH) which is what the Arab-Israeli conflict is all about.  The Arab Palestinian has not been able to destroy Israel from the outside


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > The manner and type of presentation of most BDS Activities are immediately to impress the audience that Israel is the principal cause of all problems facing the Arab Palestinians.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

This is an "unreal" orbital question affected by the proximity of Israel.  Most of the _(Arab - Israeli)_ disputes are "related" to Israel.  Even if I move to stipulate that ALL the problems experienced by the Arab Palestinian are "related to" Israel, that does not mean that Israel is the proximate cause of the troubles.

The BDS Movement, as it relates to the manner and type of presentation, wants to amplify the problems; not make outline solutions to the problem _(how do we get from where we are to where we want to be)_.  And where is the preverbal → "where we want to be?" _(RHETORICAL)_

The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history,
that they will never submit or yield to any power
going to Palestine to enforce partition. 
The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.​Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah (Sep 13, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > *BDS activity against Israel on campus will be defined as anti-Semitism*
> ...



What lies?
I didn't know hate speech is protected under US constitution.
But I do know that both the Anglo-American Convention (1924) and The Lodge-Fish Resolution (1922) confirm the irrevocable historic right of the Jewish nation to Palestine - under the constitution making it into US law.

Any attempt to negate the Jewish people's right to Palestine - Eretz Israel, and to deny them access and control in the area designated for the Jewish people by the League of Nations is an *actionable infringement of both international law and the Supremacy Clause (Article VI, paragraph 2 of the United States Constitution)*,* which dictates that Treaties "shall be the supreme Law of the Land".
*
Therefore most BDS activities can be viewed not only as antisemitic, targeting one single group around the world, but also as infringing upon basic US law and Constitution.


----------



## Shusha (Sep 13, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > BlackFlag said:
> ...



Because the Chinese have a national homeland where they have self-determination.  And Italians have a national homeland where they have self-determination.  Those national homelands are the places where that specific culture originated.  That is where they hold the specific rights to a national self-determination.


----------



## Shusha (Sep 13, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > BlackFlag said:
> ...



See?!  The extent of anti-Israel denial is so ridiculous, now you are telling me what I believe.


----------



## Shusha (Sep 13, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > BlackFlag said:
> ...



Over the top?!  So hate speech.

None of them are legitimate criticisms of Israel's government and her policies.


----------



## Shusha (Sep 13, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Why is pointing out Israel's violations considered hate?



Pointing out Israel's violations is NOT hate.  That is what we are trying to tell you.  

Denying Israel's right to exist IS hate. (As is denying Israel's actual existence.  That is both hate and ridiculous).
Rejecting the rights of the Jewish people is hate.  
Demonizing Israel and Jews is hate.
Making false claims about Israel and Jews is hate. 
Calling for "resistance" against Israelis or Jews is hate.
Drawing equivalencies between Israel or Jews and Nazis is hate.
Giving Israel and Jews false labels is hate.
Holding double standards for Jews and Israelis is hate.


BDS, at its core, is not protesting Israel's "violations", but its existence.  But if you want to discuss some specific policies of Israel's government that BDS is protesting I'd be down with having the conversation.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 13, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Because the Chinese have a national homeland where they have self-determination. And Italians have a national homeland where they have self-determination.


Can Italians claim self determination in China?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 13, 2018)

Shusha said:


> BDS, at its core, is not protesting Israel's "violations", but its existence.


Israel's existence is a violation.

Look it up.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 13, 2018)

rylah said:


> I didn't know hate speech is protected under US constitution.


The truth is not hate. It is protected by our constitution.


----------



## Hollie (Sep 13, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > BDS, at its core, is not protesting Israel's "violations", but its existence.
> ...



The core of the Islamist argument: the mere existence of Jews is an affront to Islam.


----------



## Hollie (Sep 13, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't know hate speech is protected under US constitution.
> ...




“The Koran is our constitution.....”  Gee whiz, where have I heard that before. 

Oh, yeah. Now I remember. 

“_God is our Goal. The Prophet is our leader. The Quran is our constitution. Jihad is our way. Death in the service of God is the loftiest of our wishes. God is great, God is great.”_


----------



## member (Sep 13, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > BlackFlag said:
> ...



_*"Palestine is not the 1st world.*_ *They are under embargo and are not allowed to govern themselves..."*

Govern themselves? 

 ...terrorists aren't governing themselves...?  they sure govern it good when it comes to conducting their... terrorism.



I feel bad for them in a way...



a sad picture of the "we ain't  governing anything" officials.




on the other hand - 

 you *+* sticking up for rotted [government] terrorists - pathetic. terrorists are terrorists. 


they don't Govern......you know what they do.


----------



## frigidweirdo (Sep 13, 2018)

rylah said:


> *BDS activity against Israel on campus will be defined as anti-Semitism*
> In the decision taken by Obama, it was determined that Judaism is a religion only, but the Trump administration changes the definition and determines that Judaism is also an ethnic origin. Meaning: Anti-Israel activity will be considered anti-Semitism in the US.
> Pro-Palestinian activists warn: the move will significantly harm our activities.
> 
> ...



Can someone tell these people that Palestinians are Semites.


----------



## Shusha (Sep 13, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel's existence is a violation.



And THAT is hate speech.


----------



## Shusha (Sep 13, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Because the Chinese have a national homeland where they have self-determination. And Italians have a national homeland where they have self-determination.
> ...



No.


----------



## Shusha (Sep 13, 2018)

frigidweirdo said:


> Can someone tell these people that Palestinians are Semites.



Maybe the same person can tell you the meaning of anti-semitism.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL (Sep 13, 2018)

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Israel's existence is a violation.
> ...



What did the U.N .” Violate?”


----------



## member (Sep 13, 2018)

Natural Citizen said:


> And another thing. Kick their lobby outta Washington, too. Why the heck does Israel have a lobby in the halls of Congress to influence the electorate's affairs anyway?
> 
> We've got millions of Americans living on the streets of our own nation, yet we're more interested in Israel's  affairs and feels. Phhhht.
> 
> Priorities people...






 *"...And another thing…."*


_*…Kick *_

_* their lobby outta Washington, too. Why the heck does Israel have a lobby in the halls of Congress to influence the electorate's affairs anyway?*_





 *"We've got millions of Americans living on the streets of our own nation, yet we're more interested in Israel's affairs and feels."*




_*"Phhhht."*_ 






Oh I’m all for that:  let’s take care of  the “less fortunate AMERICAN folk 1st.





There’s………a gazillion more “things” that deserve to be 

 KICKED to the [wasted] curb, we’re the world’s welfare Headquarters.  It’s - here you go Afghanistan, here’s 25 gazillion dollars AGAIN to build those bridges and .."your HUT village" that were blown up _AGAIN_…. It's: here you go illegal mexican moocher…do nothing all day – we’ll pay for it.




I guess we 

 all have our own personal lists of _*….wasted tax dollars*_…..



* "Priorities people..."*





 _....phhht_


----------



## Tilly (Sep 13, 2018)

PredFan said:


> Repost with info:
> 
> There’s a Facebook page from a company that imports products from Israel to counter the BDS bull shit. You pay monthly and receive products from small businesses and companies in Israel. I got my first box on Monday and it was a nice assortment of items.
> 
> I recommend it to anyone who wants to help Israel fight this garbage. The company's name is Lev Haolam you can find their page on facebook, and I'm pretty sure they have a web page too.


Thank you, Pred. They do have a website too where you can sign up.


----------



## Shusha (Sep 13, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



The UN does not and can not create States.  The UN had nothing to do with the creation of Israel.  

Therefore, the "violator" can only be the Jewish people.  Hence the hate speech.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL (Sep 14, 2018)

Shusha said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



The U.N. Declared Israel a Jewish State on May 14, 1948.


----------



## rylah (Sep 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't know hate speech is protected under US constitution.
> ...



Yet BDS still uses intimidation, hate and antisemitic imagery as main tactics.
Now it has gone to the point that the legitimacy of the whole movement is jeopardized
by reoccurring violent behavior, incitement for violence and open use of oldest antisemitic blood libels.
*Q.Who is responsible for these problems in the organization?*


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 14, 2018)

Shusha said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> > Can someone tell these people that Palestinians are Semites.
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 14, 2018)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...


Has nothing to do with Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 14, 2018)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...


Your imagination.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 14, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> The BDS Movement supports accusatory actions technically untrue.


Examples?


----------



## rylah (Sep 14, 2018)

I still can't forget the hateful screams of so many BDS activists
 calling for *"Jews back to Ovens!"*...
If such rhetoric is actively promoted by the BDS organization, it has to be banned from education, as much as the KKK is not allowed into schools.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 14, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> On the second level, the BDS Movement is NOT an "advocacy" program for the Arab Palestinians. Nothing it does advocates the direct help of the (so-called) Arab Palestinian Victims. In fact, the BDS Movement may in some cases, actually wound the Arab Palestinians. The Company "Sodastream" laid-off 500 Arab Palestinian employees. _(Lost Employment Opportunities!)_


What economic opportunities did the Palestinians lose because Israel stole that land?

Remember, Palestinians needed no aid before 1948.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 14, 2018)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


Shows you how desperate Israel is getting.


----------



## RoccoR (Sep 14, 2018)

RE:  BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
※→  ILOVEISRAEL, Shusha, P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, this is another one of those things, that if repeated enough, people being to accept it as fact. 

•  "Israel's existence is a violation" OF WHAT exactly?  _ (Exact citation please...)_​
The reason I ask this is because this is often justified by an ambiguous interpretation of the source _(whatever they use)_.



ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > ILOVEISRAEL said:
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

POINT #1

While it is true, that the UN DID NOT create the State of Israel, there is nothing that prohibits it from doing so _(other than customary policy and practice)_.  But the UN Charter has a principle of "self-determination" as a primary purpose of the UN along with _(but not limited to)_:

To maintain international peace and security, 

To take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, 

The suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, 

To bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace;
It would be interesting if someone could actually cite a law, treaty or other international agreement that specifically prohibits the UN as a body to create a nation...  _(Yes, interesting indeed.)  _​
POINT #2

It was by the recommendation of the UN that a "Jewish State," through self-determination, create itself (self-determination) through following the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" as outlined by the body.  The "Steps Preparatory to Independence" were overseen by the UN Palestine Commission being the successor Government of Palestine.​
POINT #3

The "hate speech" is not a product of the creation of a state.  The conflict and hate speech arise simply because the territorial allocation at the end of The Great War (WWI) was not to the liking of the Arabs _[the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) specifically]_.

The abusive language, threatening speech and adverse propaganda is an expresses prejudice against a particular group or culture; that being the Jewish Immigrants.  It is an expression of an unreasoned fear that the immigrant will acquire some measure of power and influence over the Arab; as well as a greater economic foundation.​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 14, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> The abusive language, threatening speech and adverse propaganda is an expresses prejudice against a particular group or culture; that being the Jewish Immigrants. It is an expression of an unreasoned fear that the immigrant will acquire some measure of power and influence over the Arab; as well as a greater economic foundation.


The Zionists went to Palestine with the stated purpose of shoving the Palestinians aside and to pig the place for themselves. And that they did. The Palestinians have been fighting this theft ever since.

So where is this unreasoned fear you are talking about?


----------



## rylah (Sep 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > The abusive language, threatening speech and adverse propaganda is an expresses prejudice against a particular group or culture; that being the Jewish Immigrants. It is an expression of an unreasoned fear that the immigrant will acquire some measure of power and influence over the Arab; as well as a greater economic foundation.
> ...



See this is exactly an example of such a hate speech.
By Your definition of 'Palestinian' You automatically discriminate against all the Jews, erase the suffering they've endured at the hands of their Arab neighbors - while using the oldest antisemitic blood libel in the books.


----------



## frigidweirdo (Sep 14, 2018)

Shusha said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> > Can someone tell these people that Palestinians are Semites.
> ...



Anti-Semitism is a term that has been hijacked by the right in Israel to mean anti-Israeli, anti-Jewish or anti-right wing Israeli.


----------



## RoccoR (Sep 14, 2018)

RE:  Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, you have to be kidding*!*
Please keep in mind:

The Government of the United Kingdom, in a memorandum on the "Legal Meaning of the Termination of the Mandate", has advised the United Nations Palestine Commission that so fas the Mandatory Power is concerned the United Nations Commission will be the Government of Palestine after 15 May 1948.​


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > On the second level, the BDS Movement is NOT an "advocacy" program for the Arab Palestinians. Nothing it does advocates the direct help of the (so-called) Arab Palestinian Victims. In fact, the BDS Movement may in some cases, actually wound the Arab Palestinians. The Company "Sodastream" laid-off 500 Arab Palestinian employees. _(Lost Employment Opportunities!)_
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians did not THEN, and does not NOW, fund the government.  Prior to 1948, the UK was liable for all debts related to the operation and maintenance of all normal government functions.  After 1948, Israel was responsible for the operation and maintenance of its sovereign territory, and the donor nation contributions have been responsible for funding most of the West Bank and Gaza Strip operation and maintenance; with the Government of Palestine resting "on the resolution of the General Assembly."

Having said that, as you know, the Arab League invaded, and upon the Armistice --- the West Bank became the responsibility of Jordan and the Gaza Strip became the responsibility of Egypt.  In the three decades since the "Palestine Liberation Organization" (PLO) declared independence, the sovereignty issues and the alignment of the operation and maintenance of the government has been in question.  Even the peaceful transition of government administration has not been effected in that time.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 14, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> To bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace;


_Expressing its grave concern_ that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,

_Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

_Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine,* including:

(_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

2. _Reaffirms also_ the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;

ODS HOME PAGE

Enforce international law. Problem solved.

Why is there a problem with this?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 14, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> After 1948, Israel was responsible for the operation and maintenance of its sovereign territory, and the donor nation contributions have been responsible for funding most of the West Bank and Gaza Strip operation and maintenance; with the Government of Palestine resting "on the resolution of the General Assembly."


Of course that ducks my question.

So, how and why did all of that happen?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 14, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> has advised the United Nations Palestine Commission that so fas the Mandatory Power is concerned the United Nations Commission will be the Government of Palestine after 15 May 1948.


So where was the UN when it was charged with protecting the people and territory under its trust?


----------



## rylah (Sep 14, 2018)

*EU PARLIAMENT VOTES IN FAVOR OF ADOPTING ANTISEMITISM DEFINITION*

The European Parliament on Thursday voted in favor of a resolution endorsing the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) working definition of antisemitism, drawing praise from Jewish groups.

The resolution calls on EU Member States and the EU institutions and agencies to adopt and apply the working definition of antisemitism. The text urges members to: protect their Jewish citizens and Jewish institutions from hate crime and hate speech; support law enforcement efforts to identify and prosecute antisemitic attacks; appoint national coordinators on combating antisemitism; systematically and publicly condemn antisemitic statements; to promote education about the Holocaust in schools; and to review school textbooks to ensure that content about Jewish history and contemporary Jewish life stay clear of antisemitism.

_“This is a monumental day for the fight against hate and the protection of the rights of European Jews,” _Dr. Moshe Kantor, President of the EJC, said._ “For too long, Jews were deemed unique, with hate defined by the perpetrators and not by the victims.”_

_“The only people who will be dismayed by this decision are those who wish to continue the culture of antisemitic impunity and who believe that Jews should not be afforded protection under the law.”_


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 14, 2018)

rylah said:


> *EU PARLIAMENT VOTES IN FAVOR OF ADOPTING ANTISEMITISM DEFINITION*
> 
> The European Parliament on Thursday voted in favor of a resolution endorsing the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) working definition of antisemitism, drawing praise from Jewish groups.
> 
> ...


Israel's desperate campaign to shut people up.


----------



## rylah (Sep 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > *EU PARLIAMENT VOTES IN FAVOR OF ADOPTING ANTISEMITISM DEFINITION*
> ...



Now BDS attacks education about the Holocaust?? 

Incredible...


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 14, 2018)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...


What makes you say that?


----------



## rylah (Sep 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



The organizations' desparate refusal to even face the problem of antisemitism,
it proves BDS harbors such ideology very willingly and pro actively.

Antisemitism is BDS air and water , hence the delusional response to European vote in favor of combating it.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 14, 2018)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...


Links?


----------



## rylah (Sep 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



I'm still waiting for any link showing BDS condemning antisemitism,
but the organization and her members stubbornly refuse to oppose the most vile examples of hate speech and incitement to murder during their demonstrations.

Q. What can be concluded from that?


----------



## rylah (Sep 14, 2018)

*BDS activists shouting "ADOLF HITLER & ALLAHU AKBAR"*


According to BDS, antisemitism is not even a problem, it's the norm...
Otherwise it would've been condemned long ago.


----------



## Shusha (Sep 14, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > ILOVEISRAEL said:
> ...



*Israel declared itself *on May 14, 1948.  The UN does not have the power to create States.  The UN accepted the State of Israel to membership (recognized Israel as a member of the UN) on 11 May 1949 with UNGA resolution 273, following UNSC resolution 69 a few months earlier.


----------



## RoccoR (Sep 14, 2018)

RE:  Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

As you very well know, General Assembly Resolutions do not carry with them the force of law.  The citation you quoted comes from A/RES/3236 (XXIX) 22 November 1974.



EXCERPT of Posting 136 → P F Tinmore said:


> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine,* including:
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

But even if it were true, there are several other impediments to your postulation.  They include, but are not limited to:

PART  3.  GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF CRIMINAL LAW
Article 22 - Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court
*Nullum crimen sine lege*
1.  A person shall not be criminally responsible under this Statute unless the conduct in
question constitutes, at the time it takes place, a crime within the jurisdiction of the
Court.
2.  The definition of a crime shall be strictly construed and shall not be extended by
analogy. In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favour of the
person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.
3.  This article shall not affect the characterization of any conduct as criminal under
international law independently of this Statute.​
Article 24 - Non-retroactivity ratione personae
1.  No person shall be criminally responsible under this Statute for conduct prior to the
entry into force of the Statute.
2.  In the event of a change in the law applicable to a given case prior to a final judgment,
the law more favorable to the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted
shall apply.​Article 15 *bis  *Exercise of jurisdiction over the crime of aggression (State referral, proprio motu)

2.   The Court may exercise jurisdiction only with respect to crimes of aggression
committed one year after the ratification or acceptance of the amendments by thirty
States Parties.​*(APPLICATION)*

•  Israel did not ratify the Rome Statues.
•  The "violation" is not defined, in case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favor of the
Israel.
•  The International Criminal Code is 21st Century Law.  Anything prior to 2002 is outside the jurisdiction of the ICC.​
You have not cited the "LAW."  In order for the existence of Israel to be a "violation," it has to be in contrivention of an enforceable and specific law.  You have not cited an enforceable or specific law that is not ambiguous.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR (Sep 14, 2018)

RE: Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't believe I ducked any of your questions.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > has advised the United Nations Palestine Commission that so fas the Mandatory Power is concerned the United Nations Commission will be the Government of Palestine after 15 May 1948.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

The duty of the UN was interuptedby the intiation of hostilities by the Arab League and Arab Palestinian irregular forces. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha (Sep 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > The abusive language, threatening speech and adverse propaganda is an expresses prejudice against a particular group or culture; that being the Jewish Immigrants. It is an expression of an unreasoned fear that the immigrant will acquire some measure of power and influence over the Arab; as well as a greater economic foundation.
> ...



And this IS hate speech. 

It is not a criticism of Israel or Israel's government policies, but a rejection of Jewish identity and history. And the Jewish people's rights to those things, equal to all other peoples rights.


----------



## RoccoR (Sep 14, 2018)

RE: Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
※→ rylah, et al,

Yeah, I don't get the strategy here.



rylah said:


> *BDS activists shouting "ADOLF HITLER & ALLAHU AKBAR"*
> 
> 
> According to BDS, antisemitism is not even a problem, it's the norm...
> Otherwise it would've been condemned long ago.


*(COMMENT)*

Don't they understand that by aligning themselves with the WWII Axis Powers and Islamic Radical and  Fundamentalist slogans, they are framing themselves in very poor associations?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 14, 2018)

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


Has nothing to do with hating Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 14, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE: Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
> ※→ rylah, et al,
> 
> Yeah, I don't get the strategy here.
> ...


Were those BDS or provocateurs? You will only hear that kind of thing in outdoor protests where they cannot control the participants.

During a Q & A, Ali Abunimah shut down somebody who mentioned Nazis.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 14, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE: Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I don't believe I ducked any of your questions.
> ...


None of them were attacking Palestine or the UN.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 14, 2018)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...


Check out any of my posts Palestine Today and let me know if anyone says anything bad about Jews.


----------



## Shusha (Sep 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...




No. It has to do with hate speech. Hate speech is defined as speech, gesture or conduct which invites violence or prejudicial action against a protected group or individuals in a protected group based on their membership in the group. 

Rejection of Jewish identity and history and access to the same rights as other groups is hate speech.


----------



## RoccoR (Sep 14, 2018)

RE: Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

IF the Arab League attacks territory under the responsibility of Article 77 of the Charter, THEN that is an "Act of Aggression."



P F Tinmore said:


> None of them were attacking Palestine or the UN.


*(COMMENT)*

But I'm not concerned → and you probably should not be concerned → with the action.  At the time of the Armistice, there was no territory under the control of either the All Palestine Government (APG) - OR - under the control of the Arab Higher Committee (AHC).

For all intent and purposes, the Hashemite Kingdom and Egypt had effective control over all the unapportioned territory that was placed under the UN Trustee System (via Article 77a).  The Arab Palestinians allowed the Arab League to do the heavy lifting --- and the result was: →  nothing left for the Arab Palestinians to establish as a nation.  The Arab Palestinians wanted  → ALL or NOTHING.  They rejected the recommendations to follow the Steps Preparatory for Independence;  → and today we see how well the choice they made worked out for them.

If you want to split hairs about who initiated the 1948 War → and who holds what sovereignty → at the end of the day, Israel came out in a better position than did the Arab Palestinians that reject the offers to participate in self-governing institutions and the Steps Preparatory for Independence.  This is a troubling pattern of behavior since the 1948 War.  And it is a Pattern we still see today.  Again, we can ask them, how well did that work for you?

It would behoove the Arab Palestinians to look at the overall outcome of their actions _(over the last 100 years)_.  It really doesn't matter who was "right" or who was "wrong."  It doesn't matter about what you think some "document says", or what you think your "rights" are. ---  What matters is the reality of the outcome.  

The Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, and (of course) Jerusalem, can look at their choices of leaders over the last 100 years.  And you can read the advice they gave and the leadership that they ultimately exhibited.  

*Seventh Arab League Summit Conference*
*Resolution on Palestine *
Rabat, Morocco 28 october 1974

To affirm the right of the Palestinian people to establish an independent national authority under the command of the Palestine Liberation Organization, the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in *any Palestinian territory that is liberated*. This authority, once it is established, shall enjoy the support of the Arab states in all fields and at all levels;​
Hmmm.  What does that mean?  And how has it workdfor them.  While some people might argue that Area "A" is sovereign territory of the Arab Palestinian; there is just as strong an argument that all the the leader of the PLO _ *(Mahmoud Abbas*)_ can claim to hold soveriegn is his home (and even that is questionable. 

Did the Arab Palestinains actually "liberate" any territory?  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 14, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE: Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> IF the Arab League attacks territory under the responsibility of Article 77 of the Charter, THEN that is an "Act of Aggression."
> ...


Israel took Palestinian territory by military conquest.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 14, 2018)

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


Anybody say anything about hating Jews besides you?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 14, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> For all intent and purposes, the Hashemite Kingdom and Egypt had effective control over all the unapportioned territory that was placed under the UN Trustee System (via Article 77a). The Arab Palestinians allowed the Arab League to do the heavy lifting --- and the result was: → nothing left for the Arab Palestinians to establish as a nation.


It was the UN that divided Palestine into three areas of occupation in the Armistice Agreements. That has always been a mystery.


----------



## Shusha (Sep 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...




I didn't say anything about hating Jews. I said you are using hate speech against Jews. You and BDs.


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 14, 2018)

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


There is no proof of that.


----------



## Shusha (Sep 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...




Sure there is. You both use speech which incites predjudicial action against a protected group.


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 14, 2018)

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


Not so.


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## DOTR (Sep 14, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > BlackFlag said:
> ...



   Ahhh another one so pure and above the fray.


----------



## Coyote (Sep 14, 2018)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> BDS is 100% anti semitic.


How?


----------



## Coyote (Sep 14, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


It is no different than your own anti-Muslim hate.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 14, 2018)

Coyote said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > BDS is 100% anti semitic.
> ...



#1) One mostly Jewish nation in the world
#2) BDS looks to weaken that nation
#3) BDS movements on campuses result in antisemitic actions against Jews (Google is your friend).

Do you see boycott, divestment and sanctions movements against blacks, Asians? No. Because that would be deemed racist. But it is OK against Jews? No. Cannot have it both ways. There are countries with awful atrocities. North Korea, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, China...don't see BDS there. Only vs. Israel. The only Democracy in the ME.

It is 100% because of JEW HATE. You know it and I know it. Don't play coy.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 14, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > BlackFlag said:
> ...



Anti Radical Islam. Don't play coy.


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## Coyote (Sep 14, 2018)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


For some.

For others it is all the same.  Dont pretend otherwise.  It is like the those who claim they don’t hate Jews...just Zionists.  A pretty way of trying to hide anti-semitism or anti-Muslim hatred.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 14, 2018)

Coyote said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...




Radical Islamists treat women as 2nd class citizens, hate gays and pretty much anyone not Muslim. Pretty easy to hate. Jews don't blow you up for drawing pics of Moses.


----------



## Coyote (Sep 14, 2018)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



That doesn’t change generic broadbrushed hate.  FYI...all conservative religious sects treat women as second class citizens.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 14, 2018)

Coyote said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



Not like Islam does. As Sam Harris stated "Islam is the motherhood of bad ideas". 

There are 53 Mostly Muslim countries (60% or more) can you name one on par with say the UK or the US in terms of social policies?


----------



## Coyote (Sep 14, 2018)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


Let’s rephrase that.  Can you name any country in history where religion is government that embraces our social values?  The problem isn’t Islam it is religion in government.  It always sucks for women and religious minorities throughout history.


----------



## Coyote (Sep 14, 2018)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


I will add something else.  Can you name one Buddhist country or Hindu country on par?


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 14, 2018)

Coyote said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



In Islam women are treated as property. That was not the case in ancient Western Europe where women were queens. I agree that you need separation of church and state but Islam on top of treating women like garbage, hate dogs, kill gays, hate Jews and Christians, kill you for drawing pics of Mo. It is a primitive and dangerous ideology. Again can you name one mostly Muslim country that has social values that are expected in today's modern westernized world? There is not ONE. There are 53 of them. Coincidence?

The one Jewish nation is in fact tolerant, a democracy, a military power and economically strong.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 14, 2018)

Coyote said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



Japan. South Korea. Singapore. All I can think of. 

There really are not that many.


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## Coyote (Sep 14, 2018)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


Singapore....Singapore
Japan is mostly secular with less than 40% identifying with organized religion.
Korea is very pluralistic.  Christianity, Buddhism, Confucianism and Islam, peacefully coexist with shamanism...quite a panopoly.

Meanwhile look at Nepal, Myanmar, Thailand, and India for western rights and the treatment of women.


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## Coyote (Sep 14, 2018)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


In ancient Western Europe women were property, Jews were frequently expelled, subject to pogroms and restrictions and periodically killed.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 14, 2018)

Coyote said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



You have dodged my question. I answered yours. In a conversation it is polite to answer each other's questions. Islam again is very tough not to judge very negatively. My Muslim friends here in the US. Great guys. Treat their women as 2nd class. Both had arranged marriages.


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## Coyote (Sep 14, 2018)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


Probably depends on who you know and where they are from.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 14, 2018)

Coyote said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



One from India. The other from Pakistan. Good guys. Not radical. But...they see women as 2nd class citizens.


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## RoccoR (Sep 15, 2018)

RE: Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You've made this accusation several times.



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel took Palestinian territory by military conquest.


*(QUESTION)*

When?
What territory?

Most Respectfully,
R


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## RoccoR (Sep 15, 2018)

RE: Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

No mystery at all.   Why? *(RHETORICAL)*



P F Tinmore said:


> It was the UN that divided Palestine into three areas of occupation in the Armistice Agreements. That has always been a mystery.


*(COMMENT)*

Because it is inaccurate.  The Armistice Agreements were made between the parties to the conflict.  

•  EGYPTIAN-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT
•  Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement
•  Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement
•  HASHEMITE JORDAN KINGDOM - ISRAEL:  GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT​
The agreements where NOT between the UN and any party to the conflict.  The UN only participated in as much as it helped to facilitate the mediation process between the parties.  I would be very interested if you could produce an Armistice Agreement between the UN and any party to the 1948-49 conflict. 

The Armistice Lines were the agreed upon track of the FEBA _(Foward Edge of the Battle Area)_ with each party.  The Armistice Line did not represent any final political subdivision of the territory.  It was an agreed upon cessation of hostilities between the engaged forces. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 15, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE: Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You've made this accusation several times.
> ...


Haven't you heard of the Nakba? Of course not. Israeli propaganda (your only source of information) Doesn't believe that happened.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > RE: Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
> ...


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL (Sep 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...



YAWN..., No Israelis in “ Palestine “.


----------



## RoccoR (Sep 15, 2018)

RE: Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

It is hard saywhen the (so-called) "Nakba" started.  BUT, its inception revolves around the 1948 Invasion by the Arab League.



P F Tinmore said:


> Haven't you heard of the Nakba? Of course not. Israeli propaganda (your only source of information) Doesn't believe that happened.


*(COMMENT)*

The "Nakba" _(as invented by Yassar Arafat)_ is a pro-Palestinian Bedtime Story about the Palestinians that either fled or  expelled _(depending on who tells the story)_ of Palestinian from towns and villages during the Arab League invasion.

The political sovereignty extended over the territory may be characterized many different ways; BUT "military conquest" IS NOT accurately one of them.  That is simply a misrepresentation of the facts used as a justification to challenge Israeli sovereignty.

Such challenges, of events of 70 years ago, actually serves no useful purpose other than to extend and prolong the conflict between Israel and the Arab Palestinians.  This is a continuation of promoting the "Arab Palestinian Everlasting Conflict;"  the policy of "no negotiation." 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL (Sep 15, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE: Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> It is hard saywhen the (so-called) "Nakba" started.  BUT, its inception revolves around the 1948 Invasion by the Arab League.
> ...



He knows all about the Partition Plan.  It amuses me how he can so vehemently deny it


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 15, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > RE: Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
> ...


Sure I know about the partition plan. It was rejected and the Security Council did not implement it. It didn't happen. It is meaningless to even bring it up.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 15, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> It is hard saywhen the (so-called) "Nakba" started. BUT, its inception revolves around the 1948 Invasion by the Arab League.


Israeli lie. The Nakba started months before the 1948 war.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > It is hard saywhen the (so-called) "Nakba" started. BUT, its inception revolves around the 1948 Invasion by the Arab League.


Israeli lie. The Nakba started months before the 1948 war.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL (Sep 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...



You’re right..,  The U.N. Did not recognize Israel on May 14, 1948.   Keep telling yourself that. 
 Still have nothing to say about the No
Israelis Allowed Apartheid Policy and we are Supposed to take you SERIOUSLY???


----------



## RoccoR (Sep 15, 2018)

RE: Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is another one of those fallacies you keep repeating.



P F Tinmore said:


> Sure I know about the partition plan. It was rejected and the Security Council did not implement it. It didn't happen. It is meaningless to even bring it up.


(COMMENT)

The Security Council was never intended to implement it.  So in a sense (a very very small sense) you are correct. 

EXCERPTS: 

STEP 2, Part I-B  STEPS PREPARATORY TO INDEPENDENCE, A/RES/181(II)  29 November 1947
•  "the _(UN Palestine)_ Commission; which shall act in conformity with the recommendations of the General Assembly, under the guidance of the Security Council."
•  "The mandatory Power shall not take any action to prevent, obstruct or delay the implementation by the _(UN Palestine)_ Commission of the measures recommended by the General Assembly (A/RES/181 II).​
STEP 7 Part I-B  STEPS PREPARATORY TO INDEPENDENCE, A/RES/181(II)  29 November 1947
• The Commission shall instruct the Provisional Councils of Government of both the Arab and Jewish States, after their formation, to proceed to the establishment of administrative organs of government, central and local.​Part I-F  ADMISSION TO MEMBERSHIP IN THE UNITED NATIONS, A/RES/181(II)  29 November 1947

  •  When the independence of either the Arab or the Jewish State as envisaged in this plan has become effective and the declaration and undertaking, as envisaged in this plan, have been signed by* either of them*, sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership in the United Nations in accordance with Article 4 of the Charter of the United Nations.​EXCERPT: •  PAL/169  17 May 1948  PALESTINE COMMISSION ADJOURNS SINE DIE
•  "The _(UN Palestine)_  Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution (A/RES/181 II) of last November 29 *has been** implemented*."​
It did not matter IF the Arab Palestinians rejected the Recommendation.  The Security Council was aware of the facts and decided not to intervene in the Steps Preparatory to Independence.  This again is a false challenge to question the legitimacy of Israel.  

You will notice that in A/RES/67/19 4 December 2012, Status of Palestine, in which the UN decided to accord to Palestine non-member observer State status in theUnited Nations, the General Assemble also Recalls its Resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947.  It is simply ludicrous to suggest you can simply "say it ain't so" and it is undone.  You can't do that any more than you can un-hear something.  To say "It didn't happen. It is meaningless to even bring it up" is just *fallacious.* 

Most Respectfully,
R


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 15, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> STEP 2, Part I-B STEPS PREPARATORY TO INDEPENDENCE, A/RES/181(II) 29 November 1947
> • "the _(UN Palestine)_ Commission; which shall act in conformity with the recommendations of the General Assembly, under the guidance of the Security Council."
> • "The mandatory Power shall not take any action to prevent, obstruct or delay the implementation by the _(UN Palestine)_ Commission of the measures recommended by the General Assembly (A/RES/181 II).



_Recommends_ to the United Kingdom, as the mandatory Power for Palestine, and to all other Members of the United Nations the adoption and implementation, with regard to the future government of Palestine, of the Plan of Partition with Economic Union set out below;

_ Requests that_

 (a) The Security Council take the necessary measures as provided for in the plan for its implementation;
----------
Didn't happen.


----------



## member (Sep 15, 2018)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...







_*"My Musli*_m 

 *friends here in the US. Great guys"*





....is this what their wives look like? seriously.








i know the same muslims you know.






"*great guys*."



ohhhhhhh yeah....... 




















​



​











*They're.Grrrrrrrrrreeaat !*


​







​

​


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 15, 2018)

member said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



I am on your side man. They are good guys but they are very Americanized.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 15, 2018)

Coyote said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



You never answered my question. You dodged with your own questions, which I answered. Incredible.


----------



## RoccoR (Sep 15, 2018)

RE: Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

The is a request and NOT a requirement.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > STEP 2, Part I-B STEPS PREPARATORY TO INDEPENDENCE, A/RES/181(II) 29 November 1947
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

The Part I-B STEPS PREPARATORY TO INDEPENDENCE, A/RES/181(II) 29 November 1947 made the UNPC the action arm for the Security Council.  Absent guidance to the contrary, the UNPC directed implemation procedures.

Again this is some subterfuge to challenge the legitimacy of how the State of Israel, via self-determination, established self-governing institutions.

It did not require a decree or approval by the Security Council, but was self-actualization.  If you read the string of reports from the UN Palestine Commission that covered issues of food, transportation banking, tax revenues, a postal system system ---  and everything in between, you will see that it was not a spontaneous process.  It was a well thoughtout plan that everyone was aware. 

It is what it is.  You may challenge it all you like, but what happened was a reality, just as todaysMiddle East is a reality.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## member (Sep 15, 2018)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> member said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...




_*"They are good guys but they are very Americanized.."*_


right.  i, i, i ...understand what you mean


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## Shusha (Sep 15, 2018)

Coyote said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > BDS is 100% anti semitic.
> ...



BDS didn't have to be anti-semitic.  There are probably ways to have boycotted Israel that weren't anti-semitic.  But it has manifested as anti-semitic.  And it is certainly one of the major focuses of anti-semitism in the world today.


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 15, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE: Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The is a request and NOT a requirement.
> ...


Resolution 181 was a non binding recommendation that had no legitimacy without the action of the Security Council.

Many crucial parts of Resolution 181 were not implemented.

Land and borders. (Israel did not define these because it did not have any.)
Jerusalem.
Citizenship.
Militias.


----------



## Hollie (Sep 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > RE: Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
> ...



It’s a bit silly to be whining about the Arab- Moslem refusal regarding Resolution 181. 

In a historical (for you, “hysterical”), sense, it lists as just another failure on the part of Arabs- Moslems to seize an opportunity and make a better life for themselves. However, as we see through so much of the Arab-Moslem Middle East, retrogression gets the better of them.


----------



## rylah (Sep 15, 2018)

Guys don't You see what we are witnessing for the last 20 pages?

BDS can't even remotely discuss antisemitism,
their main strategy is to normalize Jew-hating rhetorics in the media and politics, it's that simple.
That's why for the last 20 pages,we have been discussing ANYTHING BUT the actual problem,so let's bring this thread back on topic - and take the bull by the horns.

*Q. When is BDS going to condemn Jew-hatred?*


----------



## Shusha (Sep 15, 2018)

Never.  Next question?


----------



## RoccoR (Sep 15, 2018)

RE: Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

The Arab cannot start a war to preempt Jewish Independence action and then blame the result of the conflict outcome on the Israelis.



P F Tinmore said:


> Resolution 181 was a non binding recommendation that had no legitimacy without the action of the Security Council.
> 
> Many crucial parts of Resolution 181 were not implemented.
> 
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

The orginalintent was to track with the Steps Preparatory to Independence  with the boundaries for Israel following that of the Part II B of Resolution 181 (II).  However, the Arab League interfered with that the negotiations on the demarcation of boundaries as outlined in A/AC.24/SR.45  5 May 1949.   AND the Conciliation Commission itself had declared in its second progress report that "the Commission is of the opinion that the refugee problem cannot be permanently solved unless other political questions, notably the questions of boundaries, are also solved."

Given that the Arab Palestinians are not operating in good faith, following the solemn pledge of Feb 1948, the Khartoum Resolution Sept 1967, and numerous policy statements since then, the boundary issues faced in 1948 have been overtaken by events and the accelerated war effect on the part of the Arab Palestinians of both the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

Similarly, the lack of cooperation on the part of the Arab Palestinians and their failure to follow the processes outlined in the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (1970), that have dealt a serious blow to the cause of peace, and have hindered the Israelis to the point of independent and unilaterial action.  

Citizenship is not an issue.  It is a domestic and sovereign issue outside the jurisdiction of international Law. 

Militias, Irregular and Asymmetric Forces (as well as volunteers) fall under ARTICLE 4  Thrird Geneva Convention:  They are subject to the very same Rules of War, Customary and International Humanitarian Law as the Israeli Defense Force.  The Protected Persons that deliberately and intentionally target to do harm against the Occupation Power (Israel) are subject to trial and penalties under Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. 

  A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:

  (1) Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as *members of militias or volunteer corps* forming part of such armed forces.

  (2) Members of other *militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements,* belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:

  (a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

  (b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

  (c) that of carrying arms openly;

  (d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.​
Most Respectfully,
R


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## rylah (Sep 15, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Never.  Next question?



I think You're giving them too much options.
Either let them condemn antisemitism, or lead them to face consequences to the fullest letter of the law.

This is outrageous.


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## Shusha (Sep 15, 2018)

BDS can never confront their own anti-semitism.  To do so would be to destroy the very goals that BDS was created to achieve -- which is to deny Jewish national independence.  That goal is fundamentally discriminatory.


----------



## Coyote (Sep 15, 2018)

Shusha said:


> BDS can never confront their own anti-semitism.  To do so would be to destroy the very goals that BDS was created to achieve -- which is to deny Jewish national independence.  That goal is fundamentally discriminatory.


Isn’t there a legitimate non anti Semitic reason to boycott products from settlements?  I think there is.  Right now we have the US government practicing complete disinvestment of Palestinians...no outcry.


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## Coyote (Sep 15, 2018)

member said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...


What does that have to do with anything?


----------



## rylah (Sep 15, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > BDS can never confront their own anti-semitism.  To do so would be to destroy the very goals that BDS was created to achieve -- which is to deny Jewish national independence.  That goal is fundamentally discriminatory.
> ...



Then boycott Arab product from the area as well,
moral relativism all the way ...


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## Coyote (Sep 15, 2018)

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


No need to.  We have the most powerful country in the world already disinvesting them don’t we?


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## member (Sep 15, 2018)

Coyote said:


> member said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...







*"What does that have to do with anything?"*


i was 

 illustrating to...the defiler....

 in my own little way, about... my feelings on islam light and islam HARD...[unfortunately, the same thing].




 is it that bad ?..............?  too many pictures for you ?  am i way off topic ?  oh, there's a surprise ! you can take it down if it's to LOUD .....(we keep you busy here, 

 and you don't even get paid for it, right?) .


----------



## rylah (Sep 15, 2018)

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



And how many countries are there in the world?
Let alone, how many Muslim countries have been boycotting Israel since its' reconstitution?

You see the problem with moral relativism is that it only postpones the need for a simple moral decision,
at some point someone either chooses to condemn antisemitism, or attempt to invent excuses to keep the disease alive. Jews are the canary of the world,  nations that suffer periods of antisemitism they don't survive too long - especially the big heavy empires...


----------



## Shusha (Sep 15, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > BDS can never confront their own anti-semitism.  To do so would be to destroy the very goals that BDS was created to achieve -- which is to deny Jewish national independence.  That goal is fundamentally discriminatory.
> ...



The term "settlements" itself assumes all sorts of things, though.  Did you want to compare it to a boycott of Morocco?


----------



## Shusha (Sep 15, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > BDS can never confront their own anti-semitism.  To do so would be to destroy the very goals that BDS was created to achieve -- which is to deny Jewish national independence.  That goal is fundamentally discriminatory.
> ...



See....

The problem begins with defining what the goal is and thus we are boycotting.  I would argue "Jews are not allowed to live here" is inherently anti-semitic.  Hence the problem when you discuss "settlements".


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## Coyote (Sep 15, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


Why?


----------



## Coyote (Sep 15, 2018)

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



But here is where I see the issue: too often any criticism of Israeli policy gets branded anti Semitic.


----------



## member (Sep 15, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > BDS can never confront their own anti-semitism.  To do so would be to destroy the very goals that BDS was created to achieve -- which is to deny Jewish national independence.  That goal is fundamentally discriminatory.
> ...





 *"Right now we have the US government practicing complete disinvestment of Palestinians...no outcry.."*

Too much money being...funneled to the terrorist government to make bomb kites and rockets and toys for terrorists.  Not toys for tots.

but you know this already 

 - the world is sick & tired of 

 writing checks to terrorists.






you see the news about it all the time [unless you really are naïve about it) ....i'm all for sending pallets of food/water/medicine/bibles/soap/toilet paper.....and helpful items to the women and children and the elderly.....

terrorists are the palestinian people's government......dispute that ?


----------



## Shusha (Sep 15, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



Because Morocco is comparable and yet no one is boycotting Morocco.  Why is that, do you think?


----------



## rylah (Sep 15, 2018)

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



Example?
And we're back to blame the victim for the crime...


----------



## Coyote (Sep 15, 2018)

member said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


The disenvestment includes a cessation of money given to Jerusalem hospitals serving Palestinians.  How is that supporting terrorists?  If that aid were withdrawn from Jewish hospitals it would be branded anti Semitic would it not?


----------



## Coyote (Sep 15, 2018)

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...


I can’t think of specifics at the moment, I will need to look through threads.


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## Shusha (Sep 15, 2018)

Coyote said:


> But here is where I see the issue: too often any criticism of Israeli policy gets branded anti Semitic.



What criticism of Israeli policy?  I've seen too little of that.


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## rylah (Sep 15, 2018)

Coyote said:


> member said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



Here's an idea, read the article.
It deals with definitions, there's an official working definition of antisemitism, You know?


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## Coyote (Sep 15, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



Cuba is has boycotts.  Russia is boycotting Ukrainian goods. Disinvestment policies have targeted Iran, Cuba, Northern Ireland, Sudan, and Myanmar.

Clearly there are other countries as bad or worse than some of these which are ignored.

I am not sure that in and of itself disenvestment and boycotts against settlements is anti Semitic, in fact I don’t think it is.  It is a means of putting pressure on the country to change something.  It is in fact the rationale the Trump Administration is giving for total disinvesting of the Palestinians.  How is putting pressure on Israel bad but putting that same pressure on Palestinians good?

I do think however that BDS movement attracts anti semites to its ranks because it allows them to legitimize their anti Semitism.


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## Shusha (Sep 15, 2018)

Coyote said:


> I am not sure that in and of itself disenvestment and boycotts against settlements is anti Semitic, in fact I don’t think it is.


The very idea of "settlements" (places where Jews are not permitted to live) is anti-semitic. 



> I do think however that BDS movement attracts anti semites to its ranks because it allows them to legitimize their anti Semitism.


We agree.


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## Coyote (Sep 15, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > I am not sure that in and of itself disenvestment and boycotts against settlements is anti Semitic, in fact I don’t think it is.
> ...


Well, these are settlements where non Jews are not allowed to live.


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## Shusha (Sep 15, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



There are settlements where non-Jews are not permitted to live?  Examples?


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## member (Sep 15, 2018)

Coyote said:


> member said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



...I feel bad for the palestinians.




 pt blankmore and his theatre-group people & face-painting folks....I know he was trying to show another side of the palestinans. in 7 a.d., the land was stolen from the jews....then the muslims stole palestine ....now...well, you see.



 thank Goodness israel hasn't really levelled the place...

....the terrorists have to go. 

 if not, you're going to have to monitor this board then...forever.....


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## rylah (Sep 15, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



A whole bunch of them. Wouldn't get closer than a gun range.
Is it a problem?


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## Shusha (Sep 15, 2018)

Let me put this another way in order to make it perfectly clear, with respect to settlements.  

IF the presence of Jewish people on "Palestinian land" is fundamentally a problem, then the presence of Arabs on "Jewish land" is ALSO fundamentally a problem.  

BDS, which calls for the presence of Arabs in both territories, while denying the presence of Jews in ALL areas, demonstrates its inherent discrimination of Jews.


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## Coyote (Sep 15, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



According to Wikipedia: On 30 June 2014, according to the Yesha Council, 382,031 Israeli citizens lived in the 121 officially recognised Israeli settlements in the West Bank, *almost exclusively Jewish citizens of Israel. 
*
The law might say discrimination isn’t allowed but it de facto occurs and there seems little effort to discourage it or encourage diversity.


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## RoccoR (Sep 15, 2018)

RE:  Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
※→  Coyote, Shusha, et al,

I think we are tending to mix the apples with the oranges.



Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > BDS can never confront their own anti-semitism.  To do so would be to destroy the very goals that BDS was created to achieve -- which is to deny Jewish national independence.  That goal is fundamentally discriminatory.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

*IF* the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) Movement were to stick to the legal and moral debate about the Israeli Occupation and the legitimacy of Israeli seizures of _[Annexation and Settlements (two different types of seizure)]_ real estate and territory, *THEN* that would not be anti-Semetic.  That would be perfectly acceptable.  Provided that the treatise used is not anti-Semitic - in and by itself. 

BUT!  *WHEN *the BDS Movement breaks that barrier of justifying the purpose and arranges the objectives as a means of hostility to - or - prejudice against Jews _(religious ferver)_ *THEN* you run up against anti-Semetism. 

Most Respectfully,
R


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## Shusha (Sep 15, 2018)

rylah said:


> A whole bunch of them. Wouldn't get closer than a gun range.
> Is it a problem?



Nope.  Not a problem.  As long as:

1.  It is not entrenched in law.  (And its not. In fact, its prohibited by law)
2.  This condition only occurs during periods of active conflict.  (Which currently exists)


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## rylah (Sep 15, 2018)

FOR CONTEXT:

*TEXTS ADOPTED*
* P8_TA(2017)0243 - Combating anti-semitism European Parliament*
* resolution of 1 June 2017 on combating anti-Semitism*

2.Calls on the Member States and the Union institutions and agencies to adopt and apply the working definition of anti-Semitism employed by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) in order to support the judicial and law enforcement authorities in their efforts to identify and prosecute anti-Semitic attacks more efficiently and effectively, and encourages Member States to follow the example of the UK and Austria in this regard;

*WORKING DEFINITION OF ANTISEMITISM*

Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.
Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.
Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.
Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.
Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.
Examples of the ways in which antisemitism manifests itself with regard to the State of Israel taking into account the overall context could include:


Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.
However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic.
Antisemitic acts are criminal when they are so defined by law (for example, denial of the Holocaust or distribution of antisemitic materials in some countries).

Criminal acts are antisemitic when the targets of attacks, whether they are people or property – such as buildings, schools, places of worship and cemeteries – are selected because they are, or are perceived to be, Jewish or linked to Jews.

English (English) | European Forum on Antisemitism


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## Shusha (Sep 15, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



Likewise, ALL of Areas A and B and Gaza and all Arab villages and towns in Area C are *exclusively Arab*.  We are AGREEING that this is discriminatory, yes?  Therefore, your arguments AGAINST places where Jews live, without an equal and opposite argument AGAINST places where Arabs, live is discriminatory.


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## Coyote (Sep 15, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


How many of those are newly created in occupied/disputed territory vs long established?  Not all Jewish or Arab towns are settlements, the term has a specific meaning.


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 15, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> *IF* the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) Movement were to stick to the legal and moral debate about the Israeli Occupation and the legitimacy of Israeli seizures of _[Annexation and Settlements (two different types of seizure)]_ real estate and territory, *THEN* that would not be anti-Semetic. That would be perfectly acceptable. Provided that the treatise used is not anti-Semitic - in and by itself.


Criticizing government policy and actions is not anti Semitic.


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 15, 2018)

rylah said:


> FOR CONTEXT:
> 
> *TEXTS ADOPTED*
> * P8_TA(2017)0243 - Combating anti-semitism European Parliament*
> ...


Cool, that leaves BDS off the hook.


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## Shusha (Sep 15, 2018)

Coyote said:


> How many of those are newly created in occupied/disputed territory vs long established?  Not all Jewish or Arab towns are settlements, the term has a specific meaning.



Yes.  It does have a specific meaning.  One that applies only to Jews.  That alone is problematic.  

You are still trying to justify why what amounts to a discriminatory act.


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 15, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...


Whichever the reason, one is forgetting all the Jews who found themselves expelled from various areas of Judea and Samaria from 1929 to 1948.

It is actually re-settlement of Jewish villages and towns which used to exist in Judea and Samaria until the Arabs expelled them by force between 1929 and 1948.

How many Arab settlements were established out of the ones in which Jews were expelled during that time?

How did the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem become Arab after 1948?


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## rylah (Sep 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > FOR CONTEXT:
> ...



Every antisemitic example listed in the document,
is used by BDS in schools and media on a systematic basis.


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 16, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> The Arab cannot start a war to preempt Jewish Independence action and then blame the result of the conflict outcome on the Israelis.


Here again, you are basing your conclusions on false premise.

The Palestinians did not initiate any violence against anybody. The first violence was by the Zionist settler colonial project. The Palestinians have always been in the defensive position.

Palestinian civilians have been under military attack for a hundred years. Yet the Palestinian's response to these attacks is expected to be pristine.


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 16, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> Whichever the reason, one is forgetting all the Jews who found themselves expelled from various areas of Judea and Samaria from 1929 to 1948.


That was a response to the attacks by the Zionist's settler colonial project.


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## rylah (Sep 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > Whichever the reason, one is forgetting all the Jews who found themselves expelled from various areas of Judea and Samaria from 1929 to 1948.
> ...



And what was the excuse for Arab Pogroms against Palestinian Jews before Zionism?
Yep...it were  the same antisemitic blood libels, BDS is just the same.


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 16, 2018)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Sixties Fan said:
> ...


Like?


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## Hollie (Sep 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > Whichever the reason, one is forgetting all the Jews who found themselves expelled from various areas of Judea and Samaria from 1929 to 1948.
> ...


What attacks?

Link?


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## rylah (Sep 16, 2018)

*GERMAN INTELLIGENCE AGENCY DEEMS BDS ANTISEMITIC*
*This is believed to be the first instance of a German domestic intelligence agency labeling BDS as antisemitic and a security threat.*

This is believed to be the first instance of a German domestic intelligence agency labeling BDS as antisemitic and a security threat.

The intelligence report, which was published on May 24, said propaganda by the neo-Nazi party Der Dritte Weg (The Third Way) to boycott Israeli products "roughly recalls similar measures against German Jews by the National Socialists, for example, on April 1 1933 (the slogan: 'Germans! Defend yourselves! Don't buy from Jews!')."

The intelligence agency quoted a January 2017 text from The Third Way's website stating that "the Israeli economy is very dependent on exports... and therefore, as active help for the Palestinian freedom struggle, one should avoid Israeli products when shopping in local supermarkets and all products manufactured by foreign companies that invest in Israel."

According to the Baden-Württemberg intelligence report, The Third Way's articles range from "right-wing extremism to neo-Nazi." 

In 2017, _The Jerusalem_ _Post _reported that The Third Way's website published a report on the group’s visit to Lebanon to champion Hezbollah’s 2006 war against Israel. 

The Third Way uses the online payment service PayPal to raise funds for its activities. When asked about the Third Way, a PayPal representative told the _Post_: "Due to customer confidentiality, we cannot comment on the details of any specific PayPal account. However, we would like to stress that PayPal has zero tolerance for the use of our secure payments platform to facilitate illegal activities. We make every effort to comply with laws and regulations around the world. Compliance with these laws is something we take very seriously. We carefully review questionable activities reported to us, and discontinue our relationship with account holders found to violate our policies."

Labeling BDS as antisemitic could have far-reaching consequences for German politicians and public and private organizations that engage in pro-BDS activity. 

Several German banks retain BDS-related accounts. The Bank for Social Economy holds four accounts enabling BDS — the highest number in Germany, according to research conducted by the _Post_. 

Last week, German Jewish shareholders called for a probe into the bank's BDS-linked accounts. The Central Welfare Board of Jews in Germany is a partial owner of the Bank for Social Economy and has told the bank to terminate its promotion of BDS activity.

German intelligence agency deems BDS antisemitic


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## rylah (Sep 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Like the Damascus Affair which resulted in consequent waves of pogroms,
like the 33 days of rape, murder and expulsion of Palestinian Jews from their holy cities at the hands of their Arab neighbors.

Q.What language and excuses were used to incite Arab pogroms 
against Palestinian Jews before Zionism?


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## RoccoR (Sep 16, 2018)

RE: Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

As a general rule, criticizing or discussing on the need for change in government policy _(foreign and domestic)_ is suppose to be a healthy thing.  It encourages citizen participation and engagement. 



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > *IF* the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) Movement were to stick to the legal and moral debate about the Israeli Occupation and the legitimacy of Israeli seizures of _[Annexation and Settlements (two different types of seizure)]_ real estate and territory, *THEN* that would not be anti-Semetic. That would be perfectly acceptable. Provided that the treatise used is not anti-Semitic - in and by itself.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

But I do not believe that anti-Semitism should be able to hide behind the color of law. _(The appearance of a legal right.)_.

This is especially true when the speech takes on a character that tends to incite the audience to violence or encourage others to commit criminal acts _(where otherwise legal advocacy is bound to produce incite or promote imminent lawless action)_.  

Most Respectfully,
R


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 16, 2018)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Sixties Fan said:
> ...


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## rylah (Sep 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Why do all such presentations start in the middle of the conflict?
No mention of Arab pogroms and systematic discrimination against Palestinian Jews ,
that preceded it all.


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 16, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE: Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> As a general rule, criticizing or discussing on the need for change in government policy _(foreign and domestic)_ is suppose to be a healthy thing.  It encourages citizen participation and engagement.
> ...


OK, I can agree, but where does BDS run afoul of these principles


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## rylah (Sep 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > RE: Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
> ...



Promoting murderous slogans and blood libels is protected by which US law?


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 16, 2018)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


Links?


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## rylah (Sep 16, 2018)

*Trump's Education Department weighs in on anti-Semitism case*

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump’s Education Department has reopened an old discrimination case against Rutgers University and is revisiting what constitutes anti-Semitism.

The case stems from a 2011 event sponsored at Rutgers by an outside organization that was accused of charging Jewish attendees for admission while allowing others in for free.

The initial investigation was closed by the department under President Barack Obama’s administration in 2014. But the Zionist Group of America says the department has reopened the case based on its appeal.

In a letter to the group, Kenneth Marcus, the assistant secretary of education for civil rights, cites a broad definition of anti-Semitism that includes, among other things, “holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.”

That language was adopted in 2016 by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, an intergovernmental group that includes the United States and European Union states, and was embraced by the State Department under the Obama administration.

In his letter, Marcus also said discrimination “on the basis of actual or perceived shared ancestry or ethnic characteristics” would violate federal discrimination laws and falls under the agency’s description. The statement appears to indicate that the department is considering anti-Semitism as discrimination against an ethnic group, not a religious one.


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## member (Sep 16, 2018)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Sixties Fan said:
> ...




Link?


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## rylah (Sep 16, 2018)

*WORKING DEFINITION OF ANTISEMITISM*

Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.
Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.
Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.
Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.
Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.
Examples of the ways in which antisemitism manifests itself with regard to the State of Israel taking into account the overall context could include:


Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.
However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic.
Antisemitic acts are criminal when they are so defined by law (for example, denial of the Holocaust or distribution of antisemitic materials in some countries).

Criminal acts are antisemitic when the targets of attacks, whether they are people or property – such as buildings, schools, places of worship and cemeteries – are selected because they are, or are perceived to be, Jewish or linked to Jews.

English (English) | European Forum on Antisemitism


Q. Any category from the hate list that BDS doesn't employ on a systematic basis?


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 16, 2018)

rylah said:


> *Trump's Education Department weighs in on anti-Semitism case*
> 
> WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump’s Education Department has reopened an old discrimination case against Rutgers University and is revisiting what constitutes anti-Semitism.
> 
> ...


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Your pathetic attempts to wipe out the attacks on Palestinian Jews since 1920 by Husseini and all the Arabs in the region has become very tiresome.

{Like?}  is all you can come up with?

It does not work Tinmore.  

History does not back up your amnesia attacks.


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 16, 2018)

rylah said:


> However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic.


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 16, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...


Yes it does.


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## rylah (Sep 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic.



No problem, that's exactly the point
but it's the BDS themselves confirming their difficulty to comply with the frame of a civilized discourse, without using double standards and hate speech.


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


{Yes, it does. }

And "that" is all the proof you are ever going to give.
Your word as to what happened (without showing proof as to what happened)  is worth a million recorded  reports to the contrary.


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 16, 2018)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...


Examples?


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 16, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Sixties Fan said:
> ...


You are referencing actions that follow the start of the Zionist settler colonial project. Of course the Palestinian would oppose that.


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## rylah (Sep 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Doesn't explain the Arab war against Palestinian Jews prior to Zionism.
Jew-haters are just desperate lowlifes attempting to sell the oldest antisemitic tricks in the book.

"Never again" means a solid intention regarding filth like that.


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 16, 2018)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Sixties Fan said:
> ...


OK


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > How many of those are newly created in occupied/disputed territory vs long established?  Not all Jewish or Arab towns are settlements, the term has a specific meaning.
> ...


Where else is another country occupying a disputed territory who’s status and ownership is yet to be settled?  What other country is building new villages for one ethnic group in that territory and largely preventing any new construction for the other group that claims it?  Keep in mind that in a 2016 Pew Poll 46 or 48% (don’t remember off the top of my head) of Jews in Israel want to expel all Arabs from Israel with signicantly higher numbers in certain religious subgroups.  When you look at that then the issue of settlement building in occupied (according to one side) and disputed (according to the other) it looks less innocent. 

If another country is doing this I would say the exact same thing, boycott and raise awareness.  What country is currently engaging in this?  Saying it is anti Semitic *solely* because Israel is being protested and other countries aren’t ignores the fact that we all selective in what we put our attention to.  Why do people here focus on Palestinian rights but not the Kurds?  Why do people focus on terrorist attacks and anti semitism in/towards Israel but not what is happening in Myanmar?


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Do you mean to say that the Palestinian Jews had no opposition to seeing all of those invading Arabs migrate into their ancient homeland?

I would love to see you find an episode where Jews attacked Arabs on Jewish homeland  from the 7th century until 1920, the year the attacks on the "zionists" began.

Go ahead !


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...


Do you not find it fascinating that once Israel got Judea and Samaria in 1967, that area became "occupied".

But Jordan taking over the same area and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967 was never considered "occupied" by the world and much less the Arabs in question.

I do not believe that you do understand why the BDS movement, started by Arabs, is exclusively a movement against Israel.

There is no BDS movement against any other country which is clearly occupying the land of another people (Turkey in Cyprus, etc) and there will never be.

How, and why is that?


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > *Trump's Education Department weighs in on anti-Semitism case*
> ...



Interesting case especially with the definition of anti semitism.  I wonder how many people realize that holding all responsible for the actions of some is exactly what is routinely done with Muslims here. Same card, dopifferent faces.  One is condemned, the other justified.  I agree with the definition...it is the ultimate irony though that many of those who do do not see how they themselves are utilizing the same rhetoric against other groups.


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...


Excuse me but.....OH, Please !!!!!

None of us has ever considered all Muslims responsible for the acts of some Muslims.

If it were so, there would be no Muslims living in Israel, as there are no Jews living in Gaza, Jordan and most of the Muslim countries.

Unfortunately, you alone as well as a few others, do not see the irony of what you post.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



The Cuban embargo’s, started by Cuban Americans against Cuba was solely against Cuba.  Is that exclusivity wrong?

Embargo’s are usually targeted. If a group feels strongly about the behavior or injustice of a particular entity are they bigoted because all such actors around the world?

Why do call for and support Palestinian disinvestment but ignore Myanmar?


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## rylah (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



How is it that in every case people want to discuss antisemitism, Muslim groups cry foul?
*Here's another fact for Your moral relativism* - there're no Arab support in the combat against Jew-hatred (not to mention incitement), but there's a significant representation of Jewish organizations fighting for rights of the Muslim community.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



You are very restricted in what you read.  There are countless posts here in auSMB essentially blaming all Muslims or all Palestinians for the acts of terrorism or violence.  You easily see antisemitism, not so easily when the target is a group you don’t particularly agree with.  Why not apply the same standards to both groups?


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## rylah (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



Why not apply the same standards of combating racial discrimination
to give stage and campus time to organizations such as the KKK?


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...


I do not know who those pro Israel people blaming ALL Muslims or all Palestinians are, and in which communities or threads.

All I know is that none of those I know in this community and threads have done so.

In what ways in Israel, or Jews in the world, boycotting or harming the Palestinians living anywhere in the world, or especially in Israel?

If you are talking about the legal embargo started by Israel against Gaza after Israel left that place, then you do need to bring the why it had to be done, and why it must continue to be so.

If you insist that Israel has not been attacked by thousands of rockets since 2005,  and now, included, thousands of fires started by the people of Gaza against Jews in Israel, and that there has never been a need to start that embargo to keep weapons from the hands of Hamas and other terror organizations over there, then you truly do not understand the issues between Hamas (Gaza) and the State of Israel.

If Jews were to target Jordan, Saudi Arabia, etc, the way all of those countries have always targeted Israel, attempting to destroy it.......considering how fragile they can be economically........

Where is the Israeli BDS movement against any and all of those Muslim countries, or against the Palestinians, when Israel gives jobs, education and health care to so many of them?

How many Jews or Israelis are being given jobs, education, or health care in Yemen, Egypt, Syria, etc?  Seriously?

How many Jews are left in any of those Muslim countries?

Tunisia seems to be an exception, as well as very few Muslim countries friendly towards Israel, at the moment.

Can you actually say that Israelis have been against Palestinians since 1920 and attempted attacks on them and did everything to keep those Arabs from building up and having their own States in 1937 and 1947?  Or anytime after?


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

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What moral relativism?

And I am actually talking about people HERE.  And I forget a lot of folks in these type of threads only post in IP.  That means you don’t see a lot of what gets said outside your interests, 

In terms of groups I agree there are more Jewish groups fighting for the rights of others than Arab groups.  But there are Muslim groups, at least in the US fighting against antisemitism together with other faith groups.  That tends to get ignored or desparaged.

Regardless though, are you saying because the balance is lopsided it is acceptable?  Behavior mirroring your definition of antisemitism (one that comes to mind that is often repeated here is that Islam is incompatible with democracy and Muslims can’t be real Americans, an echo of Jews are loyal to Israel over xyz claims).

When hatred exists, along the lines outlined in the definition you posted it should be confronted regardless of how you feel about the target or how much you might support the group.  For example...what is happening with UK’s labor party and the really disturbing revelations about Corbin.  Is that supportable simply because you agree with the left ideology over right?  You can’t support it.  You can’t excuse it.  You can only excise it.

Claims of relative moralism seems like a way of excusing the inexcusable.


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

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[But there are Muslim groups, at least in the US fighting against antisemitism together with other faith groups.  That tends to get ignored or desparaged.]

That is absolute nonsense on your part.

Why is it that you see things which are not happening?

"We" ignore or disparage the fact that Jews, Muslims AND Christians do get together in the US, and anywhere in the world for that matter to fight antisemitism?

Unless you have posts to give as examples, then I do not see where you are coming from?

Islam is compatible with democracy?  Gives us any example of a Muslim country which has ever been considered a democracy?  Or could be considered a democracy today.
Maybe one Muslim country or another having relations with Israel today?  But are they really democratic?

You need to be more explicit about the UK's Labour party.
It used to be pro Israel decades ago.

What is supportable?  What are you looking at?
Who is on the left and who is on the right?

The problem with the Labour party in the UK, is the same as any other country and their parties.  It depends on who is taking over power in government and if they are listening to anti Israel voices or not, and why.  What are they getting out of it?

Sweden, Norway, France, Holland, Spain, Portugal. All of these European countries and more
have been flooded with anti Israel voices for the past 40 years.  It is very clear that those voices have been making inroads for the past 10 years, in who is getting into governments in any and all of those countries, and why some governments are making the decisions they have been making.

Those voices want to destroy Israel.  That is what BDS is all about.

Israel, on the other hand, is out there in the world helping, building, rescuing, and doing everything in Israel and in Judea and Samaria to help the Arab Palestinians have secure jobs, education and health care in order to help them move on and not want to become another "Martyr" for Islam.

Do notice how it is "being a Martyr for Islam, and not for Palestine"


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

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Why are we talking about "anywhere in the world"?  Israeli settlements are the subject (or should be) of BDS.  What is happening to Jews or Palestinians ouside of Israel/Palestine should be irrelevant.  The "Jews of the world" should be irrelevent - isn't that effectively blaming all Jews for the Israeli policy?

As far as Israel - does Israel support the US's complete disinvestment of Palestinians?  Including even money given to Palestinian hospitals in Jerusalum?  Has Israel pushed for this?



> If you are talking about the legal embargo started by Israel against Gaza after Israel left that place, then you do need to bring the why it had to be done, and why it must continue to be so.



No, I am not talking about the embargo, that's another issue.



> If you insist that Israel has not been attacked by thousands of rockets since 2005,  and now, included, thousands of fires started by the people of Gaza against Jews in Israel, and that there has never been a need to start that embargo to keep weapons from the hands of Hamas and other terror organizations over there, then you truly do not understand the issues between Hamas (Gaza) and the State of Israel.



I have never insisted they have not, and I have always agreed Israel has a right to defend itself so let's not go there.



> If Jews were to target Jordan, Saudi Arabia, etc, the way all of those countries have always targeted Israel, attempting to destroy it.......considering how fragile they can be economically........



They could and it would be within their rights to do so though I suspect that the trade issues would hurt Israel as well.



> Where is the Israeli BDS movement against any and all of those Muslim countries, or against the Palestinians, when Israel gives jobs, education and health care to so many of them?



Well for that...you do have the embargo and you have the US disinvestment of Palestine which I'm sure is being done with Israel's blessing.



> How many Jews or Israelis are being given jobs, education, or health care in Yemen, Egypt, Syria, etc?  Seriously?


No argument from me on Israel's humanitarian efforts, but it is also not relevent to the issue.



> How many Jews are left in any of those Muslim countries?


Also not relevent to the issue other than "but look at and what about" arguments.



> Tunisia seems to be an exception, as well as very few Muslim countries friendly towards Israel, at the moment.



Good.  IMO all the states in the ME including Israel need to forge bonds of trade, peace, and shared humanitarian concerns - extremism and failed states are a huge threat to everyone and should unite them.



> Can you actually say that Israelis *have been against Palestinians since 1920* and attempted attacks on them and did everything to keep those Arabs from building up and having their own States in 1937 and 1947?  Or anytime after?



To a degree, yes...but you are also covering a huge span of history.


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## rylah (Sep 16, 2018)

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That's a nice picture You've drawn, looks good outside of the real world.
Let's talk reality, numbers, how many Jewish anti-Muslim groups do You know of in the US,
that use the same openly vile rhetoric as BDS?


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

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I see a lot of responses where it's disparaged as "it's an anomoly" type of responses.  I quit posting about it because of that.  I'll have to look up topics.



> Islam is compatible with democracy?  Gives us any example of a Muslim country which has ever been considered a democracy?  Or could be considered a democracy today.
> Maybe one Muslim country or another having relations with Israel today?  But are they really democratic?



See that is EXACTLY the type of argument I'm talking about.  You just provided the perfect example.  Islam, as a religion is compatible with democracy.  Look at India.  Look at the US.  Look at Canada.  All have muslim citizens that uphold their countries values and democratic principles.  The problem is when you mix religion with government - democratic values and minority religious rights usually loses.  And that includes Israel if it continues to go down that path.  



> You need to be more explicit about the UK's Labour party.
> It used to be pro Israel decades ago.



A guide to Labour anti-Semitism claims

Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party’s anti-Semitism ‘problem’ becomes a crisis


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

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I don't support BDS as it is - I agree that the movement has attracted antisemitist groups and it's poisoned.  But I do support the principle of boycots in order to force political change - there is nothing wrong with that.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

I'm not abandoning this discussion, but must run and do some real work I've been avoiding by being online   I'll be back.


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## rylah (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> I'm not abandoning this discussion, but must run and do some real work I've been avoiding by being online   I'll be back.


 Be well.


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Where else is another country occupying a disputed territory who’s status and ownership is yet to be settled?


You're kidding, right?  I brought up Morocco PAGES ago.  

The fact that it is considered "occupied" by Israel is, of itself, a double standard not applied anywhere else in the world.  Does Spain "occupy" Catalonia?

Where else is disputed territory required to remain free of certain ethnic groups?  Why would you not consider that to be discrimination?  

BDS calls for the parts of Israel/Palestine which were successfully ethnically cleansed of Jews to remain Jew-free while insisting that all of Israel/Palestine be available for Arab return.  Why would you not see that as a double standard based on ethnicity?


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

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Did you not bring up the Jews of the US, etc, etc?

Israel is asking any country to stop supporting terrorism against Israelis, Jews, Muslims, Druze, anyone.
UNWRA supports terrorism against Israelis.
Some of the Arab schools in Jerusalem support and teach terrorism against Israelis.

Do not worry about Israel someday not doing business with Saudi Arabia or Jordan, etc.  The ones harmed, as it has been shown, have been these countries and not Israel.
Israel is the startup nation.  Those countries depend on oil, and basically nothing else.
And Israel did just fine when the US and other countries cut necessary things for the last 10 years.

Of course Israel and many Jews outside of Israel are blessing the US and other countries like Belgium finally stopping the funding of terrorism tools against Israel. 
Terrorism and how it is perpetuated to next generations of Muslims in Gaza and the PA territories must end, sooner than later.  
It is the only way the Palestinian leaders of next generations will be able to embrace peace with Israel and stop the war they started in 1920.

[Good. IMO all the states in the ME including Israel need to forge bonds of trade, peace, and shared humanitarian concerns - extremism and failed states are a huge threat to everyone and should unite them.]

Apparently you may not have paid attention that it is Israel which keep making the efforts, and gladly succeeding, in having relations with Muslim countries in the ME, who only about 10 to 20 years ago when demanding its destruction.
Not to say that many in those countries do not continue to do so and are not happy with the relations those countries are having now with Israel.

You have absolutely no examples to give as to Israelis being against the Arabs having their own State.  None. To a certain degree or not.

1920 was given because that is when the Arab leaders who were against the Jews having their sovereign state declared war on that idea and the Jews there in general.  
All of the riots, murders and wars from 1920 on did not happen in a vacuum, they happened because one Arab leader in particular managed to be more powerful than other Arab leaders who wanted peace with the Jews and were pro a Jewish State on their own ancient homeland.


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## rylah (Sep 16, 2018)

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I think You should re-read the article, it deals with a specific case of racial discrimination in a US university as an example of the hatred promoted by the BDS organization ,and with the application of the Working Definition of Antisemitism.

The case starts at the point where political discourse ended long ago.


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## member (Sep 16, 2018)

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_* 
" I do support the principle of boycots in order to force political change - there is nothing wrong with that..."*_




 ....as long as it's..._for the goo_d, right? and not some stupid "liberal" junk... LoL....[sorry].  i bet you'd vote for an illegal mexican for president [who admits he looooveees his cervesa)....si?


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Keep in mind that in a 2016 Pew Poll 46 or 48% (don’t remember off the top of my head) of Jews in Israel want to expel all Arabs from Israel with signicantly higher numbers in certain religious subgroups.



And you find this problematic, why, exactly?  Given that you support the expulsion of Jews from Arab Palestine and require Arab Palestine to remain Jew-free.

See, I am the one arguing consistently that both Israel and Palestine should have a mixture of both Jews and Arabs.  I am the one arguing that anything less is discrimination.


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Interesting case especially with the definition of anti semitism.  I wonder how many people realize that holding all responsible for the actions of some is exactly what is routinely done with Muslims here. Same card, dopifferent faces.  One is condemned, the other justified.  I agree with the definition...it is the ultimate irony though that many of those who do do not see how they themselves are utilizing the same rhetoric against other groups.



The one is condemned for extremist actions (terrorism) and the other is condemned for desiring self-determination (Zionism).  Not seeing a moral equivalence there.


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> But there are Muslim groups, at least in the US fighting against antisemitism together with other faith groups.  That tends to get ignored or desparaged.



I'm sure this is true.  But they aren't very visible.  As compared to say, Linda Sarsour, who cautions American Muslims not to see Israelis (Jews) as human.  

How can we increase the visibility of those Muslim groups?  It seems to me that is exactly what this thread is asking.  Why are those American Muslim (or Arab) groups not policing their own?  Why are they not spear-heading the fight against anti-semitism at BDS events?


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 16, 2018)

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I don't get it. I agree with you?


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 16, 2018)

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Why do you always answer questions with questions. Can we agree that Islam is indeed the "mother load of bad ideas"?


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## member (Sep 16, 2018)

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_i know....._

i was telling this to coyote ..... she replied that.......

 ...she didn't care for my post and all the degrading muslim-women pictures...it had nothing to do with...life or this thread.  it was too much.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

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You brought up Morocco but you have not said how it is comparable - how is it?

The issue of settlements is that those settlements are on occupied or disputed territory, that the other side claims for it's own state.  Right or wrong - that is the issue and politically, the settlements are a means of solidifying Israeli control of that territory.  That is the reality on the ground.  Ideally - and you and I agree on this - the state lines should include which ever ethnic groups are living there without prejudice.  But realistically do you see Israel letting that territory go to a future Palestinian state?  (or unfortunately, the Palestinians accepting Jewish settlers and Jewish settlers accepting Palestinians in their area).    Team Israel keeps insisting settlements aren't an obstacle to peace yet they clearly are.

You mention BDS' double standard - but keep in mind the attitude of the Israel's Jews and of the SETTLERS themselves here:  Israel’s Religiously Divided Society

Settlements are almost entirely Jewish in membership - the number of non Jews is miniscule and I suspect those places are really  now large established cities vs. "settlements".  How many non Jews live in settlements?  How many in the newly recognized settlements?  How many Jews have moved into the West Bank from Israel in recent years?  How many non-Jewish people?  Most of the Palestinians there have been there for years.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

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Because that post asked me no questions and made little sense in relation to the topic - hence my question - what does it have to do with the discussion?  Member can always choose to actually converse should he want to instead of posting pictures of women in burkhas which is rarely worn by Palestinian women.

No.  Because you are essentially broadbrushing an entire religion and on top of that - providing erroneous information.  You claimed in historical Western Europe women were treated like queens.  That is laughable.  All religions in their conservative sects and history have treated women like shit and like property.  Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism - but you ignore that.  Now I will agree that in the modern world, in many countries Islam is more conservative, more restrictive and much in need of enlightenment but that is also tied to the culture.  Muslims in America for example, are no different than their Christian counterparts but that is ignored in the broad brushing and it is in that where I have an issue.  Are you questions sufficiently answered?


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

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In one sense, we can blame the media - why do they choose to emphasize some over the others?  Much of what I read about Sarsour is from rightwing sources using her to point out anti-semitism, those same sources who ignore or downplay cooperative enterprises that ARE in the news but don't get latched on to.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

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Here again...isn't that exactly what the definition of anti-semitism covers when it applies to Jews?  Blaming all Jews for the actions of Israel?  Why are Jews not "policing their own"?  Why, in fact should they be held responsible for the actions of another state is what should be asked?  Why are American Muslims being held responsible for the behavior of outside entities who happen to share the same religion?  Why aren't Christians or Hindus held to those same standards?


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

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There is a huge difference with Muslims living in countries which are Democratic in the West, and Islam ever being pro Democracy then or now.

And there is a huge difference between Muslims who immigrated to the West 40 years ago, and many Muslims who do so in order to change the Western society and culture and turn it more and more like Islam.

20 years ago, did one find any Muslims attacking and inciting against Jews in Europe or anywhere else outside of Israel, or anyone who is pro Israel?  No.

It is happening in France, Holland, Norway, Sweden, and other countries.
It is being brought up by Muslims who are against Jews, period, not just against Israel.  And they are doing it side by side by Nazis, Communists and Fascists who know nothing but to blame all the woes of the world on Jews.

Yes, the Jews.  Not Israel.

And Jews in general, as a whole.

The intent of the attacks on Jews since 1920 was not only to keep them from being sovereign over any part of their ancient homeland, but it was to kill them all.  BDS against Israel was going on even between 1920 and 1948, as a way to attempt to destroy the Jewish dream of being sovereign of their own destiny, again.

BDS, from 2005 on, is merely a continuation of what was happening between 1920 and 1948.

A continuation of the Arabs proclaiming themselves Palestinians as a nationality in 1948.

Of making others believe that "their" land is being occupied by invading foreigners.

Of making believe that Israel murders innocent people at will.

etc, etc, etc


BDS is an organization started by Arab terrorists who want to see Israel destroyed and the Jews their servants or wiped out.   

THAT is what the seven Arab States invasion of Israel in 1948 was all about.  But they cannot stand losing so BDS and endless incitement to people who will believe anything they say is all they have.

It is not working anymore.  Not the US, not to Belgium and many other countries who are slowly starting to see the picture and realize they must do something to stop feeding the beast which wants to destroy a country at the cost of its innocent people whom they incite and weaponize daily in order to achieve any semblance of victory for themselves and many non Muslims who see, not only Israel, but Jews in general as evil, and in absolute need to be conquered and in need to return to the role they had before the Balfour Declaration.

One cannot separate Israel from the rest of the Jews. Those in  Islam and Christianity who insist in seeing Jews as evil and that they must remain docile servants to both religions will not allow the world to stop thinking that way.

Any one who may wish to see the BDS movement as rightful and fair, clearly does not see what their printed and verbal intents continue to be towards Israel and to Jews in general to this day.

Surely, Israel will not do so, but maybe it should give in spades, should it not?
Not allow Arabs to live in Israel
Keep them from working in Israel
Keep them from going to school in Israel
Keep them from getting health care in Israel.


BDS against BDS.


Shall we go that route?


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

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Question:

Is Linda Sarsour antisemitic or not?

Is the UK's Corbin, and many in that party, antisemitic?

In what way are they not antisemitic?

In what way are they not using BDS tools to attack Israel, even if Israel is not doing something wrong?

Is accusing Israel of doing something wrong, like defending its borders, arresting terrorists attempting to murder - or murdering Israelis - , is that antisemitic?

Any Corporate group which is using its power to help destroy Israel, because it is a Jewish State, are being called on as well


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

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Just looking at this.  Aren't you doing to Muslims what anti-semites do to Jews?  What is the difference between your argument and the argument of those who argue Israel can not be Jewish AND a democratic state?

Clearly Islam is compatible with democratic values because Muslims thrive and live in Democratic states and according to polls at least show little desire to lose those values.  They have made their religious observances compatible with democratic values.

I will agree on one thing - when religion becomes part of the state and system of laws - democratic values can become endangered.  There is no religion I can think of that is compatible with democracy in it's entirety.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

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I am going to try to answer all these thoughtfully and seriously...so bare with me.

I think so, at least to some degree based on what she has said - but I don't think she is the evil she is made out to be, and that has been way over played.  She is a flawed human being.  Here's an interesting editorial: American Jews, lay off Linda Sarsour



> Is the UK's Corbin, and many in that party, antisemitic?


Yes...this is something that has increasingly been coming to light.  The fact that Corbin refuses to definitively denounce or move to clean the party up is disturbing and calls into question Corbin's own views on Jews.  And it's a shame.




> In what way are they not antisemitic?



The Labour Party in and of itself is not antisemitic unless it has a clearly anti-semitic platform and if it does I'm not aware of it.  Members within it might be anti-semitic, but that isn't everyone.

Sarsour expresses some antisemitic views but also some legitimate views.  I think that the opinion piece I linked to said it very well.



> In what way are they not using BDS tools to attack Israel, even if Israel is not doing something wrong?



I'm not sure what you are asking - for example, there are clearly Israeli policies that some feel are wrong, instance the issue of settlements.  Are you saying that using BDS tools against Israel to attempt to change those policies is antisemitic?



> Is accusing Israel of doing something wrong, like defending its borders, arresting terrorists attempting to murder - or murdering Israelis - , is that antisemitic?



Not necessarily - it really depends on the situation.  

Israel has a right to defend it's borders the same as any other nation.  If a critic singles out Israel for special condemnation, and can't give a reason why Israel shouldn't have that same right then it begs the question - is it because they are Jewish?  On the other hand, there is the concept of proportionality.  If Israel launches a nuke at Gaza to defend it's borders - is objecting to that anti-semitic?  I don't think so.  That's just using an extreme example to make a point.  I do think in most (but not all) cases Israel has been very careful in it's defenses, much more so than can be said of many other states in conflicts in the area.



> Any Corporate group which is using its power to help destroy Israel, because it is a Jewish State, are being called on as well



Do they want to destroy Israel or force a change in certain policies? Boycotts are a long established and useful, non-violent means of effecting change.  Are you saying now that any attempts at such are to destroy Israel and therefore anti-semitic?  


The questions you asked me also make me think of another - is anti-semitism always so black and white and clear cut?


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## rylah (Sep 16, 2018)

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Many western religious countries, all are democratic.
Except for the Jewish nation none are fully democratic in the middle east.

According to the Democracy Index 2016 study, Israel (#29 worldwide) is the only democracy in the Middle East, while Tunisia(#69 worldwide) is the only democracy in North Africa.[1] The measure of the level of democracy in nations throughout the world published by Freedom House and various other freedom indices, the Middle Eastern and North African countries with the highest scores are Israel, Tunisia, Turkey, Lebanon, Morocco, and Kuwait. Countries that are occasionally classified as partly democratic are Egypt and Iraq. The remaining countries of the Middle East are categorized as authoritarian regimes, with the lowest scores held by Saudi Arabia and Yemen.
Democracy in the Middle East - Wikipedia


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> You brought up Morocco but you have not said how it is comparable - how is it?


Western Sahara is a territory formerly under control of Spain, where the Sahwari people are actively seeking independence, self-determination and national liberation.  Morocco deliberately moved hundreds of thousands of its own citizens across an international border to "settle" Western Sahara.  Where is the international outcry against those "settlers"?  



> Ideally - and you and I agree on this - the state lines should include which ever ethnic groups are living there without prejudice.  But realistically do you see Israel letting that territory go to a future Palestinian state?  (or unfortunately, the Palestinians accepting Jewish settlers and Jewish settlers accepting Palestinians in their area).    Team Israel keeps insisting settlements aren't an obstacle to peace yet they clearly are.


Of course the settlements are an "obstacle to peace" but you keep skipping over the reasons WHY.  In a world without discrimination and where all peoples are safe from harm from other peoples they would not be an obstacle to peace.  They should not be an obstacle to peace.  They ARE an obstacle to peace precisely because of the discrimination and lack of safety for Jews.  You even just said it.  Arab Palestinians DO NOT and WILL NOT accept Jews in their territory.  If the Jewish people were SAFE in Arab lands, including Arab Palestine, this would not be a problem.  The problem is not the presence of Jews.  You keep wanting to make the problem the presence of Jews. The CAUSE of the problem is Arab (and Muslim) discrimination against Jews (anti-semitism).


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

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Many western "religious" countries are democratic, yes.  But how many of them include religious law in their system of laws?  To my knowledge they are secular and that is an important component of democracy and of safeguarding the rights of religious minorities in a nation.  Many Muslim majority countries (but not all) include some aspect of religious law in their system.  I can't think of any country that does so that does not have some degree of religious disenfranchisment, tension or worse.


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Settlements are almost entirely Jewish in membership



Of course settlements are Jewish in membership.  That is the DEFINITION of "settlements" -- places where Jews live.  Places where Arabs live (even if they are places settled since the start of the conflict!) are not labelled "settlements".  That ALONE is evidence of discrimination against Jews for being Jews.

This is EXACTLY the point.  If a Jew moves to a place "he is not supposed to be" its "settlement" (and therefore bad).  If an Arab moves into a place "he is not supposed to be" its his "right" (and therefore good). THAT IS THE DISCRIMINATION.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

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Thank you for clarifying Morocco - that should receive the same attention, but clearly hasn't.  I had not heard of it before you brought it up in this thread.

On the second - I disagree.  The issue is that it unilaterally removes that area from negotiations on a future state of Palestine, much as Jerusalem was unilaterally removed from the table.  

Do you think the Settlers, given their propensity to stone Palestinians, and their attitudes toward that region (God gave it to them, expel Arabs, preferential rights for Jews) - would be willing to accept Arabs in their conclaves?


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Settlements are almost entirely Jewish in membership
> ...



Ok...how many NEW Arab villages have been created and legalized in the same area as the Jewish ones?

Wasn't it the Israeli's themselves who called them settlements?


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Why are American Muslims being held responsible for the behavior of outside entities who happen to share the same religion?



I have never, ever, on this board (meaning I/P) seen anyone hold American Muslims (non-Palestinian) responsible for the behavior of Palestinians.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
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> > Why are American Muslims being held responsible for the behavior of outside entities who happen to share the same religion?
> ...



No, but I was speaking more broadly - on religion in general (and going a little off topic mea culpa).


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> On the second - I disagree.  The issue is that it unilaterally removes that area from negotiations on a future state of Palestine, much as Jerusalem was unilaterally removed from the table.


Yes.  But again -- you keep skipping the WHY.  The WHY is ALWAYS because of anti-Jewish discrimination.  Why must Israel keep East Jerusalem?  Why must Israel keep the specific areas with large Jewish populations?  What is the REASON behind it?


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Do you think the Settlers, given their propensity to stone Palestinians, and their attitudes toward that region (God gave it to them, expel Arabs, preferential rights for Jews) - would be willing to accept Arabs in their conclaves?



1.  Oh come on!  Did you want to play THAT justification game?  'Cause the Jews got this one in SPADES.  Stones?  Religious replacement theology and waqf beliefs?  Expulsions?  Preferential rights for Muslims?  I'll see all that and raise you martyrs and kites and suicide bombers.

2.  Yes.  Of course Jews will accept Arabs.  There is a 100 years of proof of it by the undeniable actual acceptance of Arabs in Israel.


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Ok...how many NEW Arab villages have been created and legalized in the same area as the Jewish ones?



Don't have time to count them.  But did you want to start calling them "settlements" too?  Shouldn't they be?  Why shouldn't places where Arabs live ALSO be called settlements?


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## Indeependent (Sep 16, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
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> > Ok...how many NEW Arab villages have been created and legalized in the same area as the Jewish ones?
> ...


Because they’re already called Bomb Factories.


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
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> > Ok...how many NEW Arab villages have been created and legalized in the same area as the Jewish ones?
> ...


Coyote may not understand what the Oslo Accord was about, and what areas A and B are.  They are free of Jews.

Not only that, if any Jew happens to enter those areas by mistake, as it has happened, their lives are at risk.

Area C is under Israeli control.  There are many Arabs living there and the EU illegally attempting to take as much of that land for the Arabs as possible.

I do not see the EU helping the Jews create illegal buildings in areas A and B.  Does anyone?


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> I do not see the EU helping the Jews create illegal buildings in areas A and B.  Does anyone?



Area C is the disputed territory.  If the objective rule is "no one is permitted to build there until the dispute is resolved", the EU appears to have a double standard in helping Arabs build there while screaming that Jews must not be permitted to build there.


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> There are many Arabs living there and the EU illegally attempting to take as much of that land for the Arabs as possible.


Exactly.  Its fine if Arabs build (create facts on the ground) in order to incorporate the disputed territory into their future state.  Its even encouraged.  But somehow ugly if the Jewish people do the same.  Double standard.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Do you think the Settlers, given their propensity to stone Palestinians, and their attitudes toward that region (God gave it to them, expel Arabs, preferential rights for Jews) - would be willing to accept Arabs in their conclaves?
> ...



1 and 2.  I think it's valid to look at if we are going to talk about toleration.  Your argument  here is really *one of degree.*  We agree that there is a problem with Palestinians accepting Jews.  We should also look at whether the settlers - a powerful subset of Israel's demographics - would accept Arabs.  Have they?  *How many Arabs live in their communities?*  Look at their attitudes expressed in the PEW poll and, more disturbing - you have close to half of all Israeli Jews supporting expulsion of Arabs.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> Shusha said:
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How is the EU illegally doing anything?


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
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> 
> > There are many Arabs living there and the EU illegally attempting to take as much of that land for the Arabs as possible.
> ...



How many new Arab villages have been built and from whence came those Arabs...or were they already there?


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
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> ...



No one should be building there until it's resolved, right?  Israel has been for decades.  When did the EU start?


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

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My argument is not one of degree.  It is one of blatant, largely permitted, discrimination.  And it is one of safety.  

Jews don't want to live with Arabs because they fear for their lives (justifiably).  Arabs don't want to live with Jews because they think Jews should be restricted from basic human rights like self-determination.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
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> > On the second - I disagree.  The issue is that it unilaterally removes that area from negotiations on a future state of Palestine, much as Jerusalem was unilaterally removed from the table.
> ...



...here is another why - WHY has Israel been systematically and deliberately changing the demographics of those areas to favor Jews and disenfranchise Arabs?  

I think there is a too-quick labeling of this as anti-Jewish discrimmination.


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


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I honestly don't want to take the time to count them.  Dozens?


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
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Are we talking now of Areas A and B, or Area C, or Area C and "East" Jerusalem?


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


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Go ahead.  Give a shot at the WHY.


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

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Area C (which includes 'East' Jerusalem), is the only area which is relevant, wouldn't you agree?


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Actually, I take that back.  We should include Israel as well, since BDS calls for Arab return to Israel "proper".


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Shusha said:


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I would disagree with the second - I suspect they too would fear for their lives. Israeli settler violence - Wikipedia


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Actually, I take that back.  We should include Israel as well, since BDS calls for Arab return to Israel "proper".



That would confuse things since few think that Israel proper is in dispute.


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

[ What BDS is all about.  Please tell me that it is only about Israel, and that Russians, Turks, British, go through the same thing for occupying another people's land.  Although, of course, is not "occupying" any other people's land]


The “three D” test is a definition of antisemitism crafted by Natan Sharansky, the former head of the Jewish Agency. In 2004, Sharansky outlined what he called “new antisemitism”.

Demonization, he wrote, is when Israel’s actions are blown out of all sensible proportion and comparisons are made, for example, between Israelis and Nazis, and between Palestinian refugee camps and Auschwitz. Double standard is when criticism of Israel is applied selectively and the Jewish state is singled out, for example, by the United Nations. Delegitimization, Sharansky wrote, is when Israel’s fundamental right to exist is denied.

The BDS campaign does not call for the boycott and divestment from Israel because it wants peace. It calls for a one-state solution, one which BDS supporters envisage will one day end the Zionist enterprise that led 70 years ago to the establishment of the world’s only Jewish state.

(full article online)

New antisemitism


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

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Facts on the ground.  It makes it that much easier to gain all of Jerusalum.  Isn't that discriminatory? Jewish settlement activities in Jerusalum are government funded or supported in many cases.  Are Arab expansions?


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
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You do not see some of the Jewish extremist violence on Arabs as a response to the too many turn downs for a final Peace treaty and continuous violence of Arabs on Jews?


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> I would disagree with the second - I suspect they too would fear for their lives.



Oh come on.  There are a million Arab Israelis.  They don't fear for their lives.


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


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East Jerusalem is not in Dispute.  Not really. It is annexed and considered by those who do not want to see Israel destroyed as being in the right hands.  It is annexed, some Israel haters accept it or not.  It shall never be divided again.

And the Muslims do not want Only  "East" Jerusalem, which is what Jordan made sure to take over and expel all its Jewish inhabitants from in 1948.   They want ALL of Jerusalem, as they know that it would harm the soul and spirit of the Jews and they might stop fighting back, as it happened when Rome closed Jerusalem to the Jews nearly 2000 years ago.

Israel funds for Jews and Arabs in Jerusalem.

One problem is the Arab education which incites against accepting anything Israel does for them.  Example:  The light train passing Arab neighborhoods.   Some Arabs have chosen to attack and destroy those trains, rather then use them for their benefit.


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, I take that back.  We should include Israel as well, since BDS calls for Arab return to Israel "proper".
> ...



BDS does.  Gaza does (March of Return ring a bell?)

If Jews should not be permitted to move to Arab Palestine, then Arabs should not be permitted to move to Israel.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> [ What BDS is all about.  Please tell me that it is only about Israel, and that Russians, Turks, British, go through the same thing for occupying another people's land.  Although, of course, is not "occupying" any other people's land]
> 
> 
> The “three D” test is a definition of antisemitism crafted by Natan Sharansky, the former head of the Jewish Agency. In 2004, Sharansky outlined what he called “new antisemitism”.
> ...



I'm going to disagree a bit here, not because I particularly agree with BDS (it's frequent comparison's to apartheid are questionable, as is an insistence on right to return) - BUT, I went to their main webpage to see what they had to say about themselves.  They don't call for a one state solution or any solution nor do they call for an end to Israel proper.

FAQs
_The BDS movement aims to pressure Israel to respect international law by:


1. Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantling the Wall
International law recognises the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, Gaza and the Syrian Golan Heights as occupied by Israel.


2. Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality.


3. Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN resolution 194.


These are three basic rights without which the Palestinian people cannot exercise its inalienable right to self-determination._​
The BDS movement does not advocate for a particular solution to the conflict and does not call for either a “one state solution” or a “two state solution”. Instead, BDS focuses on the realization of basic rights and the implementation of international law.


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
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Arab expansions are supported not only by Palestine, but also by the US, the EU and the international community generally.  THAT is the double standard. 

WHY does Israel want (need) Jerusalem?


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
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> > I would disagree with the second - I suspect they too would fear for their lives.
> ...



Israel has the power to squash them and does little to restrict settler violence.  Numbers matter little in comparison to power.


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > [ What BDS is all about.  Please tell me that it is only about Israel, and that Russians, Turks, British, go through the same thing for occupying another people's land.  Although, of course, is not "occupying" any other people's land]
> ...


[_1. Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantling the Wall
International law recognises the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, Gaza and the Syrian Golan Heights as occupied by Israel.]

They may not be telling people this BUT   All of Israel is considered Arab land.

Arab Israelis have full rights, to vote, work, etc

So, 1 and 2 are kind of confusing for those who do not know what is really on the mind of the Arab leaders, who have made it very clear in their Charters, that their final goal is the destruction of Israel by any means available._


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Shusha said:


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Are they supported in response to the long-standing Israeli settlement building and expansions?  One that is for Jews only?  How many Arab settlments have been created?  No one has yet answered that.  How many Arab settlers have come in from elsewhere to live in those communities?  No one answered that.  How many Jewish settlements have been created?  How many Jews have come in from elsewhere to live in those communitees?  I don't think we can talk about double standards with out answers.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
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For a discussion we can really only go by what they say and do, and they specified "_West Bank, including East Jerusalem, Gaza and the Syrian Golan Heights" -  _if you have evidence that they want to "de-occupy" Israel proper - show me.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
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Actually...they are heavily restricted from doing so...


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
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Settler violence on Arabs is not sanctioned by Israel, at all.

On the other hand, take a look on what Hamas and others are doing in Gaza and Area C and Jerusalem, inciting any new possible ways to terrorize or kill Jews.   

What does one think they have been doing since March with the March of Return?

And, yes, a ONE State solution where Muslims are the only ones in power.....is the ultimate solution they seek. Always has been


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
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Finish that sentence.  Who is being restricted?


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


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A million Arabs live in Israel.  They do not fear for their lives.  As you said, numbers matter.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


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It's not sanctioned but it OCCURS and little is done to prevent it or seek justice compared to violence on settlers.  This is a long standing problem, and Israel only recently awoke to the fact that settler violence was potentially an issue to take seriously.  Despite that, they still tend to be handled with kid gloves because of the political clout they carry.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
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Arabs from moving into Israel.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Shusha said:


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I said numbers matter little.


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


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Syrian Golan, is between Israel and Syria and not with the Palestinians.

Gaza is not in dispute, it is fully controlled by a Muslim government.

Areas A and C are controlled by the PA.

"East" Jerusalem ( The Jewish Quarter until 1948)  will never be returned, divided, sliced or anything else, ever again )


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


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Then show me where they state that.


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


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Which Arabs are not allowed to move to Israel?

And can you show us where Jews are allowed to return or move to any part of Gaza or Jordan where they used to live until 1920 (Gaza) or TranJordan (1925) ?


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


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I'm going to wait until some of my questions get answered.  I seem to be answering a lot, but not getting answers in return.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 16, 2018)

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Nope. Why do you think in the modern world every majority Muslim country is socially backwards where compared to Western nations? Coincidence or is that ideology extremely flawed? Do tell.


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


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Google the Hamas Charter.  Or the PLO charter.  Or the Fatah charter.

Here is a hint:




















Belgium funded school formerly named after terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi changes name and logo – logo now includes PA map presenting all of Israel as “Palestine”  
Source: Facebook page of the Dalal Mughrabi Beit Awwa Coed Elementary School, Aug. 25, 2018





Logo posted on the Facebook page of the Dalal Mughrabi Coed School

The name of the Facebook page has not been changed even though the school was officially renamed The Belgian School – Tala’ei Al-Janoub instead of the Dalal Mughrabi Coed School in August 2018. The Facebook page still features the name of terrorist Dalal Mughrabi, who led the murder of 37, 12 of them children.

The school's new logo (above right) contains the PA map of "Palestine" that presents all of Israel as "Palestine" together with the PA areas, covered by a Palestinian flag, an open book at the bottom of the map, and to its right, a face with a keffiya (Arab headdress) around it. At the top is the new name of the school: "The Belgian School – Tala’ei Al-Janoub." The school's previous logo (above left), containing a picture of terrorist Dalal Mughrabi, still appears in the photo album associated with the Facebook page as of Aug. 29, 2018.
*Click to view bulletin*
_
Click "full article" for more information_



http://www.palwatch.org/site/modules/print/preview.aspx?fi=466&doc_id=26308
Oslo mayor awarded with “Jibril Rajoub” plaque with map erasing Israel on it  
Source: Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Aug. 3, 2018





Headline: “The Al-Quds Girls team gave the mayor of Oslo the Rajoub Plaque” 
_
The article includes a picture of Al-Quds Girls team administrative manager Khitam Mahmoud giving Oslo Mayor Marianne Borgen the “Jibril Rajoub Plaque,” which includes the PA map of “Palestine” that presents all of Israel as “Palestine” together with the PA areas, and on top of it what appears to be the Al-Aqsa Mosque and a Palestinian flag._

"Palestine" replaces Israel | PMW


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

AzogtheDefiler said:


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Most complex problems do not have simple answers - that is one of them.  Why is every majority Buddhist country socially backwards compared to Western nations?  Why is every majority Hindu country socially backwards compared to Western nations?  Why are Christian majority countries in Africa socially backwards compared to Western nations?

Religion?  Something else?  I vote for something else since it's clearly not just Islam.


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


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Which is the RIGHT and PROPER thing to do, according to those who would restrict Jews from certain places.  The double standard occurs when one people demands presence while the other people is restricted in presence.  Which do you think it SHOULD be?  And then WHY isn't it?


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


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We are talking about BDS, not charters - BDS.  Where do they say they want to erase Israel?


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 16, 2018)

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You are just not being honest. Islam is not just a religion because it is an ideology too. 53+ and all backwards even compared to Israel.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Shusha said:


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Shusha - I'm going to say the same thing I said to Sixties - I keep answering questions.  But mine are not being answered.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

AzogtheDefiler said:


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I'm being completely honest.  I gave you relevent examples of other countries and other religions. Every single Buddhist majority and Hindu majority nation is socially backwards.  If you can't accept that, it's not my honesty in question.


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

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I do find it odd that until recently  the High Court in Israel was very pro Arabs, giving everything to the Arabs, land, etc. Not allowing Jews to even go to the Temple Mount as now demanded by the Muslims, never mind praying there.

So, in Israel, everything is against the Arabs, and for the Jews, according to you.


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## rylah (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


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Are You kidding??!
This is the central activity of the organization, convince people that the Jewish nation has no right to exist, not one or two villages but ALL OF IT:
Israel's 1948 founding is 'occupation' in BDS resolution approved by student government - The College Fix

And that's before we even discuss the incitement to violence and openly antisemitic imagery used by the organization.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 16, 2018)

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You are not. How many Buddhist countries approve overwhelmingly of murder over a cartoon? How
Many call for the genocide of Jews? This is silly.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

AzogtheDefiler said:


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Now you are moving the goalposts from socially backwards to specific items.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 16, 2018)

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No I am not. There is a level of socially inferior and Islam countries are 100x worse than Buddhist counties. False equivalency by you. Like Judaism and Christianity it is a religion of peace. Islam was founded by a warlord.


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

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Its because you are approaching all the justifications without looking deeper into the WHY.  

So you say Arabs are restricted from moving from Israel.  (Not true, btw.)  And I could easily address that.  But the crux of all of this is WHY. 

WHY is Israel pursuing Jerusalem and not Gaza?


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

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One more thing:

The number of Jews attacking Arabs in Israel or in Judea and Samaria, would be considered about 1% of the number of Muslims attacking Jews in the same areas.

And no, Jews do not get away with attacking, robbing or murdering Arabs in those areas.

Political clout? 
 Some extremist Jews, which is what you are really talking about, attack Arabs because they may have been attacked themselves, or because some of them lose it after the constant attacks on them, or even because they see those Arabs as not having the right to be on previously owned Jewish land (do, please remember that ALL JEWS were expelled from Judea and Samaria from their homes, lands and businesses in 1948) and you call Israel as being "soft" on them?

I will not put it as a question.

You Really do not see the difference between the daily incitement and attacks on Jews from Arabs in Gaza or from Arabs in Judea and Samaria and even those living in Israel .

That is a fact.

(Check what is happening on the border with Gaza today, or any other day)


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


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As Susha put it, not true.

And no, Israel, like any other country, will not allow people who want to see to its destruction to move there.
There are plenty of those in Israel already, just check the Knesset and the Arab Joint.


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> I said numbers matter little.



Oops.  My bad.  My point stands though.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

rylah said:


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We have Buddhist countries actively committing genocide in horrific ways, we have Buddhist countries among those with the highest rates of child marriages human trafficking.  Gender equality and human rights are a joke in those countries.  So because they don't blow up over a cartoon


AzogtheDefiler said:


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We have Buddhist countries actively committing genocide in horrific ways, we have Buddhist countries among those with the highest rates of child marriages and human trafficking.  Gender equality and human rights are a joke in those countries.  So because they don't blow up over a cartoon they are better?

Thanks for providing more information though - you just hate Muslims right?  If you knew anything about history you would know that no major religion is truly a religion of peace.  It's never that simple.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

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I never simplify it into "everything" is one or the other.  So speak for YOURSELF not me.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 16, 2018)

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Hate? No. Concern yes. Buddhist countries don’t kill you for drawing cartoons.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

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Pragmatism in part.  Gaza is a tiger by the tail, and maintaining it was a political and economic liability.

Jerusalem has been claimed in it's entirety by Israel from the beginning.  As to the why behind it - it's the historical and religious center of the Jewish people.  I don't dispute that.  But more recent history has created conflict with that claim.  I also don't dispute that Israel is a better steward of the heritage and preservation of it's sites.  But manipulating things to dilute or disenfranchise resident populations is  not right either.  Nor is insisting that the Palestinians MUST negotiate (as oppose to going to the UN) while then taking, with American support, Jerusalem in entirety WITHOUT negotiation - that doesn't seem right in my opinion.

That is the why.


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> How many Arab settlments have been created?  No one has yet answered that. How many Arab settlers have come in from elsewhere to live in those communities?  No one answered that.  How many Jewish settlements have been created?  How many Jews have come in from elsewhere to live in those communitees?  I don't think we can talk about double standards with out answers.



The double standard is that when the Jews come from "elsewhere" its bad.  But when Arabs come from "elsewhere" its good.  BOTH people are seeking return to their historical homeland.  How can it be "good" for one to return and "bad" for the other to return?


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

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No.  They just marry off kids and burn people of the wrong ethnicity alive in their homes and enslave trafficked humans.  Stuff like that.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > How many Arab settlments have been created?  No one has yet answered that. How many Arab settlers have come in from elsewhere to live in those communities?  No one answered that.  How many Jewish settlements have been created?  How many Jews have come in from elsewhere to live in those communitees?  I don't think we can talk about double standards with out answers.
> ...



It is not a double standard.  If Arabs came into the occupied territories from elsewhere to build new communities - it's not acceptable either.  The region needs to be settled first or there needs to be equitable settling of both peoples.


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

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We do not have to like any of the Muslim or Christian people who have chosen to hate and oppress and kill Jews throughout history.

Judaism IS a religion of Peace.  It does not seek to convert people by force, but only by choice. 
Hinduism and many others also do not force people to convert.

Sometimes it is .....that simple.

Jews have been giving up land for peace.

Muslims have been taking land, and not giving peace in return.  Just look at Arafat, Abbas, etc and what they really want, and how they have been going about doing it.
BDS is no different.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 16, 2018)

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India has issues for sure but they don’t impose their views outside their country. It is one country. Islam is a majority in 53? All bad. ALL. Facts are not based on hate or love they are based on facts.


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Jerusalem has been claimed in it's entirety by Israel from the beginning.  As to the why behind it - it's the historical and religious center of the Jewish people.  I don't dispute that.  But more recent history has created conflict with that claim.  I also don't dispute that Israel is a better steward of the heritage and preservation of it's sites.  But manipulating things to dilute or disenfranchise resident populations is  not right either.  Nor is insisting that the Palestinians MUST negotiate (as oppose to going to the UN) while then taking, with American support, Jerusalem in entirety WITHOUT negotiation - that doesn't seem right in my opinion.
> 
> That is the why.



To be fair, the American support extends ONLY to "West" Jerusalem (assuming you are discussing the Embassy and is a right EVERY OTHER NATION holds but some people wish to restrict for the Jewish State).  And don't forget the Arab Palestinians were offered "East" Jerusalem ten years ago, including all the Jewish Holy Places (insane to look back at that now), and they refused it.  And (!) don't forget that Israel accepted 181 which would have made Jerusalem an international city and outside the sovereignty of Israel.  So it is a fallacy and disingenuous to claim that Israel has claimed Jerusalem in its entirety from the beginning.  

Having said that, Israel has EVERY RIGHT to claim its historical and religious center as being under its sovereignty.  ESPECIALLY since Arab Muslim control of Israel's Holy Places has been disastrous with respect to human rights.  

But thank you for acknowledging the why.  The WHY for Israel is always because she requires the physical, actual safety of her people and her historical monuments and for basic human rights to worship.


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

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Where do you get your nonsense from?

Arabs have invaded  a lot of Asia and all of North Africa, and they are still occupying those areas over the indigenous people.

Arabs did come into Gaza and Israel and Judea and Samaria until 1948 and took over homes and lands belonging to Jews, AND built new communities.  They continue to do that with the help of the EU and others who are funding the Arabs to take over land which would otherwise end up as part of Israel.

Arabs continue to just say that a land belongs to them, and they are usually just handed that land by Israel, instead of allowing the Jewish owners have it.

Jews have a much harder time proving that the land is theirs, even with the titles in their hands.


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

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We are all getting away from the BDS issue.


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> We have Buddhist countries actively committing genocide in horrific ways, we have Buddhist countries among those with the highest rates of child marriages and human trafficking.  Gender equality and human rights are a joke in those countries.



And yet, no widespread, international condemnation of them a la BDS.  No permanent UN agenda item against them. 

Why is that, do you suppose?


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> It is not a double standard.  If Arabs came into the occupied *disputed* territories from elsewhere to build new communities - it's not acceptable either.  The region needs to be settled first or there needs to be equitable settling of both peoples.



Good.  We agree.  You've just admitted that BDS is discriminatory in its very core beliefs.  Now, back to the topic of this thread -- what are we going to do about BDS' discriminatory beliefs?


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
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> > How many Arab settlments have been created?  No one has yet answered that. How many Arab settlers have come in from elsewhere to live in those communities?  No one answered that.  How many Jewish settlements have been created?  How many Jews have come in from elsewhere to live in those communitees?  I don't think we can talk about double standards with out answers.
> ...


I beg to disagree.

The areas in dispute are historically Jewish.

When one says that the Arabs are seeking to return to their historical homeland, it cannot be viewed as true, as the land of Israel, any of the Mandate, was Never, Ever an Arab Homeland.

Arab Homeland is the Arabian Peninsula, and no other land they have conquered or moved into should be considered their homeland, as in "ancient homeland" which is what they Palestinians have been trying to make the world believe.

It is one thing to say that one's family has been in a place for generations, or even centuries, but their "historical ancient homeland" is a different matter for all indigenous people.


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

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The areas in dispute are historically Jewish.  Jews are THE (only) indigenous peoples there.  

The areas in dispute are also historically Arab.  Historically Arab due to conquest, invasion, colonization, displacement and ethnic cleansing, but historically Arab none-the-less.  Can't unbreak those eggs.  

What sets US apart from them (religiously, humanely, politically) is our ability to hold and reconcile multiple points of view and respect them all.


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

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I do not believe that, because Jews lived anywhere in the world for a long period of time (Jews in Mesopotamia for 2500 years for instance) that anyone in the world is ever going to be considering Iraq, etc as "historically Jewish" regardless of the fact that Jews were living in that part of the ME for as long as they did, which is longer than any Muslim conquest (Arab or otherwise ) might have been. 

As I put it, the Americas are not "Historically European" regardless of which European country invaded, conquered, colonized, displaced or ethnically cleansed any and all of those continents for the past 500 years.

As far as I see it, it is exactly the same with the Jewish homeland.

Yes, the Jewish people more readily accept Arabs, Christians or Muslims, living amongst them in Israel in peace or giving up land as they already have, than Muslims (and even Christians) ever have, or will in the future.

The word historical, does have a precise meaning to me.

America may have been "historically" colonized by the British.  But if the French had taken over, it would no more make it their historical homeland, than it has for the British, or what eventually became....Americans.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 16, 2018)

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What region? They were conquered and are free to go to the any 53 other countries.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

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So you support expulsion?


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 16, 2018)

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100%


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

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Actually...historically, when it was a regional power, wasn't Judaism a warrior religion?  The most peaceful religions seem to be those who have never been a political power anywhere.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 16, 2018)

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Moses was never a warlord. Neither was Abraham. Neither was Jesus. Mo was.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
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> ...



Actually...there are in regards to Buddhist Myanmar, but even then it recieves far less popular attention.  

Israel/Palestine receives a lot of attention for two reasons - Jews and Jews.  It receives positive attention because the Jews have been long standing historic victims of other nation's intolerance, violence and genocide.  It receives negative attention because of anti-semitism and the attachment of double standards..  

Buddhist Myanmar recieves far less attention, it's victims are Muslim and in the west, Muslims are the acceptable scapegoat and blamed for their own persecution in countries where they are a minority.  The Buddhist majority is twisted into the victim.  But right now, it's by far the worse conflict, with a greater potential for humanitarian disaster unfolding and less potential for a resolution.  Myanmar is not Israel, with it's democratic values and, despite very real problems - a diverse and pluralistic society with a strong humanitarian culture.  Myanmar has and will continue to commit genocide.  Israel has not and will not imo.


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Actually...there are in regards to Buddhist Myanmar, but even then it recieves far less popular attention.



Would you have a link to that.  Because when I google "boycott Myanmar" I get a bunch of travel sites arguing the pros and cons of travel boycotts (1.4 million results).  I don't see a single organization dedicated to boycotting Myanmar for humanitarian causes.  

Contrast that to "boycott Israel" which leads with a Wiki article, then with the BDS organization and carries on from there (18 million results).  

There are dozens of countries and their governments officially boycotting Israel.  I can't find one which boycotts Myanmar.  

There is no "permanent agenda item" for ANY country except Israel.  

So...ummmm


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Actually...historically, when it was a regional power, wasn't Judaism a warrior religion?  The most peaceful religions seem to be those who have never been a political power anywhere.



No.  Judaism is not and was not ever a "warrior religion".  There is nothing in Jewish theology that would fall into that category.  Which religions would you consider "peaceful" out of curiosity?


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

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With David it may have been, but no oppression, ethnic cleansing, etc. It was mainly defending what became the borders of the Nation of Israel, as all other nations would be doing. Solomon kept peace by marrying into the other Empires.   No wars that I can recall at this moment.  Eventually there was loss and regaining of some of the land by having to fight away the Greeks and the Persians, and the Romans.


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## Shusha (Sep 16, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> I do not believe that, because Jews lived anywhere in the world for a long period of time (Jews in Mesopotamia for 2500 years for instance) that anyone in the world is ever going to be considering Iraq, etc as "historically Jewish" regardless of the fact that Jews were living in that part of the ME for as long as they did, which is longer than any Muslim conquest (Arab or otherwise ) might have been.
> 
> As I put it, the Americas are not "Historically European" regardless of which European country invaded, conquered, colonized, displaced or ethnically cleansed any and all of those continents for the past 500 years.
> 
> ...



You make a fair and reasonable point.  One could argue that there are many places in the world which are "historically Jewish".  One might argue that in a thousand years France will be "historically Arab Muslim".  

But what does one DO with that?


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > I do not believe that, because Jews lived anywhere in the world for a long period of time (Jews in Mesopotamia for 2500 years for instance) that anyone in the world is ever going to be considering Iraq, etc as "historically Jewish" regardless of the fact that Jews were living in that part of the ME for as long as they did, which is longer than any Muslim conquest (Arab or otherwise ) might have been.
> ...


I have never heard of Spain or Iraq, etc being considered to be historically Jewish.
That so many parts of the world do have Jewish history for centuries or thousands of years Is different from them being historically Jewish.  They were not founded by Jews, and no Jewish nation was ever created there for people to remember them as being historically Jewish.
Kaybhar, in Saudi Arabia could e considered still as historically Jewish for how long they were there and the fact that it has been kept empty since there.  Another is aJewish kingdom which existed in Arabia until the 11th century until the Muslims conquered it.


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## Indeependent (Sep 16, 2018)

I’m really enjoying this bullshit discussion.
Obviously Coyote knows dip squat about the reality of Jews in Israel going back to the 60s and onwards when Jews were terrified to walk outside after sundown.
“Too bad” those days are gone and God has overtly smiled upon the Jews despite being hated more by the world than Trump is by Liberals.
The Arabs are schooled from birth to murder in the name of Allah and all the web sites on Earth won’t change that fact.


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
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> > Actually...historically, when it was a regional power, wasn't Judaism a warrior religion?  The most peaceful religions seem to be those who have never been a political power anywhere.
> ...



Possibly B'ahai, and there are some much smaller sects particularly in India like the Jains.

But I had read that in it's background, Judaism had warriers and allowed for violence within circumscribed rules, I think another poster had talked about it once.  There was Joshua, a famous warrier for example.  (I'll point out is not so different than Islam, which has a lot of rules concerning warfare) - but much of that is in Jewish ancient history: Judaism and warfare - Wikipedia


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## Sixties Fan (Sep 16, 2018)

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What does ancient Jewish History have to do with today's invaders of Israel wanting to destroy that country and kill or enslave its people?  (Ok, just make them their servants again)

Yes, they were warriors, and conquered some people like the Jebusites and Jerusalem.  And many other tribes around the area, and it all became the Nation of Israel.

What does that have to do with how Jews have been for the past 2000 years, especially under Christian or Muslim rule?


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## Coyote (Sep 16, 2018)

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It was just a side comment of interest - that's all Sixties.  A lot of ancient religions had their roots in significant warriers or battles for survival.  It's not a statement against anything.


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## member (Sep 19, 2018)

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## member (Sep 19, 2018)

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*"We have Buddhist countries actively committing genocide in horrific ways, we have Buddhist countries among those with the highest rates of child marriages and human trafficking.  Gender equality and human rights are a joke in those countries.  So because they don't blow up over a cartoon they are better?"*

*"...you just hate Muslims right?  If you knew anything about history you would know that no major religion is truly a religion of peace.  It's never that simple"*





ok coyote.  _shhhh._ rest.



OMG.


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 19, 2018)




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## rylah (Sep 20, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


>



Of course it is - it's not applied the same in any other case where Jews are not involved, doubled with the demand that there's no Jewish state means it's *nothing but antisemitism. *The rhetoric used by Ash Sakar is a definite example of antisemitic bigotry used by the BDS:

*WORKING DEFINITION OF ANTISEMITISM*

Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.
Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.
Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.
Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.
Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.
Examples of the ways in which antisemitism manifests itself with regard to the State of Israel taking into account the overall context could include:


_*Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.*_
_*Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.*_
Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.
However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic.
Antisemitic acts are criminal when they are so defined by law (for example, denial of the Holocaust or distribution of antisemitic materials in some countries).

Criminal acts are antisemitic when the targets of attacks, whether they are people or property – such as buildings, schools, places of worship and cemeteries – are selected because they are, or are perceived to be, Jewish or linked to Jews.


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## rylah (Sep 20, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


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*Q. Racist hate speech may be justified by context?!*
If the rumor about You being a teacher is correct, then I'm afraid to even imagine what You've passed to those poor naive kids in schools.


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 20, 2018)

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The anti Semite card is no longer the ace of trump.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 20, 2018)

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Name one mostly Muslim country that is on par with Israel in terms of economy and social programs. You cannot. Why would Israel allow the terror state of Hamas to form a country? NEVER. Same with Fatah. NEVER.

If the people don't like it they may leave. 50+ other mostly Muslim nations. Surely one or two will take them in.


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## rylah (Sep 20, 2018)

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20 years of organized anti-Jewish propaganda, cant's be blamed on elections, her example is a vivid example of the specific systematic problem addressed by the Education Department, and rightfully so.

Q. Can You even agree that use of racist bigotry has no place in school and University?


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 20, 2018)

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Nice deflection.


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## rylah (Sep 20, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Trump official wants students prosecuted for Israel protests
> 
> Liar Kenneth Marcus



In other words, instead of doing the simplest thing - condemn racist bigotry,
BDS is pulling out another anti Jewish conspiracy theory,
just to prove further that You guys are nothing but KKK copycats.

*Left Wing Antisemitism Keeps Growing on Campuses*


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 20, 2018)

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Truth is not a deflection. If Mexico treated us the way  Palestine treats Israel there would be no Mexico. Emojis are for children. Save it. Loser.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 20, 2018)

rylah said:


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Let them try that in front of me. Won't go well for them. 

BDS = Bigots, Dumbasses and Sissies.


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## rylah (Sep 20, 2018)

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I don't know much about the US community from personal experience, but I grew up among lots of immigrant Mountain Jews in Israel. Very warm and protective community, no matter where they live, they don't pass any slightest suggestion of antisemitic bigotry without an appropriate response, and won't pass a fellow Jew in trouble, no matter what. It's a thing of honor. The US is probably a more "polite" place hence the BDS mobs that were allowed most basic proportions of civilized discourse, are still allowed to spread their bigotry and intimidate uninvolved Jews for simply having a free pass by the previous governments .


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 20, 2018)

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The Jew hatred is alive and well in the US. They hide under the guise of "Anti Zionism" is not "Antisemitism". Problem is 99% of Jews are Zionists.


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## rylah (Sep 20, 2018)

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The case at hand deals with a BDS event where Jews were simply not allowed entrance like the rest of the audience. Unfortunately many western countries digressed to a point where antisemitism is allowed and promoted even in schools.

Jews are the canary of the world, every empire that let antisemitism thrive eventually went down the drain of history. All those countries today that witness a rise of antisemitic violence and do nothing - are in deep shit and in risk of losing their society.


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## ILOVEISRAEL (Sep 20, 2018)

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“ Zionists”believe  in the Jewish Homeland in the REGION of Palestine.  To those who believe there should be a “ Palestinian State “ but not a Jewish one;


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## rylah (Sep 22, 2018)

*An old beast re-awoken, anti-Semitism stalks Europe, US once more*
*Britain, France, the US, and Hungary have seen upticks in anti-Jewish invective and assaults in recent years. The resurgence of overt anti-Semitism stems from both an awakening of repressed prejudice and a byproduct of anti-Zionism.*

*An online incubator*
In the United States, hundreds of tiki torch-wielding men chanted “Jews will not replace us” and openly displayed Nazi symbols at a “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Va., last August – even as the number of anti-Semitic incidents in the United States surged nearly 60 percent in 2017.

That was the largest single-year increase on record, according to a February report by The Anti-Defamation League (ADL), which noted that all 50 states saw an increase in anti-Semitic incidents for the first time in at least a decade.

“Charlottesville was definitely a tipping point, and definitely a wake-up call,” says Cooper.

But having launched a digital “report card” that surveys the amount of hate speech and terror-related content online more than two decades ago, Cooper continues to see the web as the most fertile space for spreading anti-Semitic ideas.

“The internet is a great incubator,” he says. “You can keep ‘The Protocols of Zion’ on life support, and there are new strategies and new languages, new ways to formulate old hatreds. And for the person who once upon a time would never think of saying anything this like this, the internet gives them a chance to express those views without any accountability whatsoever.”

“Remember the bad old days when you just spray painted a church or a synagogue or a mosque, and there was at least a chance that you’d get caught?” Cooper continues. “Today? Do whatever you want, and maybe, if places the Wiesenthal Center and others are doing their jobs, we can get a couple hundred thousand accounts suspended. Well, in a world in which Facebook has 1.5 billion, that’s just a drop in the bucket.”






*‘We share a common fate’*
Still, over the past year, even in the midst of one of the most significant surges in both anti-Semitic and anti-Muslim violence in the United States, Dr. Afridi has marveled at the corresponding surges in her own work to counteract it.

As a Muslim, she notes her unusual position as head of the Holocaust, Genocide, and Interfaith Education Center at a Catholic college like Manhattan. And as a scholar who analyzes the tangled intersections of religion and personal identity, she’s made it her ambitious goal to try “to eradicate anti-Semitism in the Muslim community,” she says.

In many ways, Afridi, author of “Shoah through Muslim Eyes,” has focused so much of her life to a typically Jewish cause because of her commitment to one of the most difficult of civic virtues in a liberal democracy: the value of sharing a common life together as equals, even amid the unavoidable human tensions that arise from difference.

Yet despite the growing sense of alarm that has followed the increasing number of anti-Semitic incidents in the US and Europe, there has been a new sense of purpose around the globe, she says.

“I believe what’s remarkable, as Jews are under attack, as Muslims are under attack, instead of segregating our two communities, it has galvanized us to recognize how we must be fighting for the other – and that is a very, very unique phenomenon,” says Rabbi Marc Schneier, who launched the Foundation for Ethnic Understanding in 1989 to help foster better relations between Muslims and Jews around the globe.






An old beast re-awoken, anti-Semitism stalks Europe, US once more


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## rylah (Sep 24, 2018)

*SJP Harassement & Intimidation*


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## ILOVEISRAEL (Sep 24, 2018)

rylah said:


> *SJP Harassement & Intimidation*



“ They don’t want a Palestinian State; We want 48” Thst is their Chant and the Hate is how Germany started. Obviously that will never happen here but something has to be done ✅


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## ILOVEISRAEL (Sep 24, 2018)

rylah said:


> *An old beast re-awoken, anti-Semitism stalks Europe, US once more*
> *Britain, France, the US, and Hungary have seen upticks in anti-Jewish invective and assaults in recent years. The resurgence of overt anti-Semitism stems from both an awakening of repressed prejudice and a byproduct of anti-Zionism.*
> 
> *An online incubator*
> ...



Anti Semitism was present in Europe immediately after WW11, nothing to do with the “ Palestinians” or Israel


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 25, 2018)

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We do not occupy Mexico.


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## rylah (Sep 25, 2018)

*Report on Antisemitic Activity During the First Half of 2016 At U.S. Colleges and Universities With the Largest Jewish Undergraduate Populations

I. Introduction*
 This study investigated antisemitic activity from January to June of 2016 on more than100 college and university campuses with the largest Jewish student populations. It picks up from where AMCHA Initiative’s previous study, “Report on Antisemitic Activity in 2015 at U.S. Colleges and Universities With the Largest Jewish Undergraduate Populations,”1 left off. AMCHA’s 2015 study provided for the first time a quantitative account of the prevalence of antisemitic activity at schools most popular with Jewish students, as well as ample empirical evidence showing that the presence of anti-Zionist student groups, faculty boycotters and anti-Israel Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) activity are each strong predictors of anti-Jewish hostility. Focusing on the same schools and utilizing an identical research methodology as the 2015 study, the current study allows for a direct comparison of antisemitic activity during the first half of 2015 and 2016. While the 2016 study replicated the 2015 findings that the rise of anti-Zionism – particularly BDS campaigns and anti-Zionist student groups and faculty – is fueling the rise of anti-Semitism on campus, the comparison across years also revealed several illuminating and disturbing trends. *Summary of 2016 Trends*:

1. There were nearly 100 more antisemitic incidents in the first six months of 2016 compared with the same time period in 2015. 

2. The number of incidents involving the suppression of Jewish students’ freedom of speech and assembly approximately doubled from 2015 to 2016. 

3. The consideration of anti-Israel divestment resolutions in student government or by the student body was strongly linked to a surge in antisemitic activity.

4. The number of incidents opposing Israel’s right to exist nearly tripled from 2015 to 2016 and was highly correlated with behavior that targeted Jewish students for harm.


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## rylah (Sep 25, 2018)

*Identifying Antisemitic Activity*​The 113 schools investigated in the study were those included in AMCHA’s 2015 study, which were identified by Hillel International as the public and private colleges and universities in the United States with the largest populations of Jewish students. Data were gathered by reviewing submitted incident reports, media accounts, social media postings and on-line recordings. In addition, the presence or absence of active anti-Zionist students groups and the number of faculty who had signed one or more petitions or statements endorsing an academic boycott of Israeli universities and scholars, were noted for each school.
​When examining the data, three different kinds of activity were distinguished:
*1) Antisemitic Expression *– Incidents were identified as having antisemitic expression if they contained language or imagery that used one or more of eight tropes included in the U.S. State Department definition of antisemitism.2 This definition, used extensively by the U.S. State Department to monitor antisemitic activity in countries around the world, identifies both classical and contemporary manifestations of antisemitism, and includes anti-Zionist expression .
*2) Targeting of Jewish Students *– Incidents involving conduct that targeted Jewish students for particular harm based on their Jewishness or perceived association with Israel were identified. Harms consisted of direct threats to the safety and well-being of Jewish students or violations of their civil rights, and included behaviors such as physical assault, harassment, destruction of property, discrimination and suppression of speech.
*3) BDS Activity* – Promotion or endorsement of an anti-Israel boycott, divestment or sanction effort. Campus BDS campaigns routinely employ rhetoric and imagery intended to demonize and delegitimize Israel, expression which is consistent with the U.S. State Department definition of anti-Semitism.


* III. Findings*​
*1) From January to June 2016, one or more kinds of antisemitic activity were found at more than half the schools most popular with Jewish students. 287 incidents involving either Targeting of Jewish Students for Harm, Antisemitic Expression, BDS Activity, or some combination of these, occurred in 2016 at the schools most popular with Jewish students. 64 (57%) of these schools had incidents involving one or more kinds of these activities.*

*2) Consistent with the findings from the 2015 study, anti-Zionist activity, particularly BDS, and the presence of student groups and faculty that engage in anti-Zionist activity, are strong predictors of antisemitic activity in general, and conduct that targets Jewish students for harm in particular.*
*
 a. BDS Activity* *- *The occurrence of BDS activity was strongly associated with the occurrence of antisemitic activity in general, and with incidents that targeted Jewish students for harm in particular.

Overall antisemitic activity was significantly more likely to occur on campuses where BDS was present than where it was not (χ 2 = 21.29; p < .001) 5 , with there being more than twice the likelihood of encountering antisemitic activity at schools with BDS activity. Furthermore, schools with more incidents of BDS activity tended to have more incidents of antisemitic activity (Pearson r = .54; p < .001).
Targeting was significantly more likely to occur on campuses where BDS activity was present than where it was not (χ 2 = 9.92; p < .01) 6 , with there being more than twice the likelihood of encountering targeting at schools with BDS activity. Furthermore, schools with more incidents of BDS activity tended to have more incidents that targeted Jewish students for harm (Pearson r = .27; p < .01).
* b. Anti-Zionist Student Group(s) – *The presence of one or more active anti-Zionist student groups such as SJP was strongly associated with the occurrence of overall antisemitic activity generally, and with incidents that targeted Jewish students for harm in particular.

Overall antisemitic activity was significantly more likely to occur on campuses where an active anti-Zionist student group was present than where it was not (χ 2 = 52.54; p < .001), with there being more than eight times the likelihood of encountering antsemitic activity at schools with at least one anti-Zionist group.
Targeting was significantly more likely to occur on campuses where an anti-Zionist student group was present than where it was not , with there being more than nine times the likelihood of encountering targeting at schools with one or more active anti-Zionist groups.
*c. Faculty Boycotters –* The presence of one or more faculty who have endorsed an academic boycott of Israel was strongly associated with the occurrence of antisemitic activity generally, and with incidents that targeted Jewish students for harm in particular.

Overall antisemitic activity was significantly more likely to occur on campuses where there was one or more faculty boycotters than where there was none , with there being almost six times the likelihood of encountering antisemitic activity at schools with faculty boycotters. Furthermore, schools with more faculty boycotters tended to have more incidents of antisemitic activity (Pearson r = .63; p < .001).
Targeting was significantly more likely to occur on campuses where there was one or more faculty boycotters than where there was none , with there being more than seven times the likelihood of encountering targeting at schools with at least one faculty boycotter. Furthermore, schools with more faculty boycotters tended to have more incidents that targeted Jewish students for harm (Pearson r = .36; p < .001).
Report on Antisemitic Activity During the First Half of 2016 At U.S. Colleges and Universities With the Largest Jewish Undergraduate Populations​


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 25, 2018)

rylah said:


> *Identifying Antisemitic Activity*​The 113 schools investigated in the study were those included in AMCHA’s 2015 study, which were identified by Hillel International as the public and private colleges and universities in the United States with the largest populations of Jewish students. Data were gathered by reviewing submitted incident reports, media accounts, social media postings and on-line recordings. In addition, the presence or absence of active anti-Zionist students groups and the number of faculty who had signed one or more petitions or statements endorsing an academic boycott of Israeli universities and scholars, were noted for each school.
> ​When examining the data, three different kinds of activity were distinguished:
> *1) Antisemitic Expression *– Incidents were identified as having antisemitic expression if they contained language or imagery that used one or more of eight tropes included in the U.S. State Department definition of antisemitism.2 This definition, used extensively by the U.S. State Department to monitor antisemitic activity in countries around the world, identifies both classical and contemporary manifestations of antisemitism, and includes anti-Zionist expression .
> *2) Targeting of Jewish Students *– Incidents involving conduct that targeted Jewish students for particular harm based on their Jewishness or perceived association with Israel were identified. Harms consisted of direct threats to the safety and well-being of Jewish students or violations of their civil rights, and included behaviors such as physical assault, harassment, destruction of property, discrimination and suppression of speech.
> ...


AMCHA is an Israeli propaganda organization.


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## Ecocertifmrl (Sep 25, 2018)

rylah said:


> *Identifying Antisemitic Activity*​The 113 schools investigated in the study were those included in AMCHA’s 2015 study, which were identified by Hillel International as the public and private colleges and universities in the United States with the largest populations of Jewish students. Data were gathered by reviewing submitted incident reports, media accounts, social media postings and on-line recordings. In addition, the presence or absence of active anti-Zionist students groups and the number of faculty who had signed one or more petitions or statements endorsing an academic boycott of Israeli universities and scholars, were noted for each school.
> ​When examining the data, three different kinds of activity were distinguished:
> *1) Antisemitic Expression *– Incidents were identified as having antisemitic expression if they contained language or imagery that used one or more of eight tropes included in the U.S. State Department definition of antisemitism.2 This definition, used extensively by the U.S. State Department to monitor antisemitic activity in countries around the world, identifies both classical and contemporary manifestations of antisemitism, and includes anti-Zionist expression .
> *2) Targeting of Jewish Students *– Incidents involving conduct that targeted Jewish students for particular harm based on their Jewishness or perceived association with Israel were identified. Harms consisted of direct threats to the safety and well-being of Jewish students or violations of their civil rights, and included behaviors such as physical assault, harassment, destruction of property, discrimination and suppression of speech.
> ...


Nice try. You almost got me there


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## rylah (Sep 25, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > *Identifying Antisemitic Activity*​The 113 schools investigated in the study were those included in AMCHA’s 2015 study, which were identified by Hillel International as the public and private colleges and universities in the United States with the largest populations of Jewish students. Data were gathered by reviewing submitted incident reports, media accounts, social media postings and on-line recordings. In addition, the presence or absence of active anti-Zionist students groups and the number of faculty who had signed one or more petitions or statements endorsing an academic boycott of Israeli universities and scholars, were noted for each school.
> ...



The usual tune of a racist #BDS-hole:

*1.* Deny laws criminalizing racist hate speech
*2.* Blame Jewish organizations for his Jew-hatred.
*3.* Protect antisemitic and anti-American organizations, that promote Nazi imagery, from any accountability.

Atta boy!  Well done proving the OP.


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## Hollie (Sep 25, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > *Identifying Antisemitic Activity*​The 113 schools investigated in the study were those included in AMCHA’s 2015 study, which were identified by Hillel International as the public and private colleges and universities in the United States with the largest populations of Jewish students. Data were gathered by reviewing submitted incident reports, media accounts, social media postings and on-line recordings. In addition, the presence or absence of active anti-Zionist students groups and the number of faculty who had signed one or more petitions or statements endorsing an academic boycott of Israeli universities and scholars, were noted for each school.
> ...



Your usual tactic. You can’t refute the data so you dump the “propaganda” slogan in your silly one-liner.


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## rylah (Sep 25, 2018)

*Vassar Nazi cartoon reflects campus dehumanization of Israel
Pro-Israel student leader at Vassar was warned: “Remember the devil has enough advocates”*

Is it any surprise, then, that multiple Vassar SJP social media platforms started citing and quoting from anti-Zionist white supremacists as a source for demonization of Israel?
Is it any surprise that the usage of white supremacist sources was defended on multiple Vassar SJP social media platforms?
Is it any surprise that SJP then posted the hideous Nazi-era propaganda poster?
Is it any surprise that even after the President of Vassar condemned the Nazi poster that a pro-Israel Wall of Truth was defaced at Vassar?
That poster depicts Jews the way anti-Israeli speakers and advocates on campus depict Jewish Israelis, as a militaristic people apart from humanity.
Look at the poster.  It is not an aberration, but an essential formula of the BDS movement on campus:





(actual Nazi German propaganda poster spread by SJP Vassar)


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 25, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
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> > P F Tinmore said:
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LMAO we took TX and Cali. Israel did the same with their land. Learn history. You are embarrassing yourself. Again.


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 25, 2018)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


PFFT, Our treaty with Mexico included land purchase.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 25, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
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Did Mexico have a choice? They were conquered. Israel gave displaced Arabs the option to join Israel. Many did and others did not. Too late now. Similarly Mexicans cannot just state they were historical Texans and should be US citizens. Please learn history. You are embarrassing yourself. Palestinians are Jordanians and Egyptians. We both know this. They need to go to Egypt and Jordan and exit Israel. Period. They cannot govern themselves. Period. Your posts are juvenile and inaccurate.


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## rylah (Sep 25, 2018)

rylah said:


> *Vassar Nazi cartoon reflects campus dehumanization of Israel
> Pro-Israel student leader at Vassar was warned: “Remember the devil has enough advocates”*
> 
> Is it any surprise, then, that multiple Vassar SJP social media platforms started citing and quoting from anti-Zionist white supremacists as a source for demonization of Israel?
> ...



Apparently* knowing exactly what they promote*, there's a set agenda of relative secrecy in order to avoid public criticism and debate:


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## rylah (Sep 25, 2018)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



You're talking to a poster who has been spreading nothing but Jihadi love songs for the last 9 years on a daily basis. Not a single positive post about Jews or Israel, virtually no posts on another subject. Don't expect any interest in facts or slightest sign of integrity - he'll blame Jews and Israel for his racism and for a cat peeing in his shoe.* Antisemitism is a violent mental disturbance, should be dealt appropriately.*

Make Your conclusions...


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 25, 2018)

rylah said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Outstanding! Thank you for the scouting reports. I did not realize he was mentally ill.


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## rylah (Sep 25, 2018)

*EXPOSED - SJP Arlington in Anti-Semitism Scandal*


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## rylah (Sep 26, 2018)

*New study: BDS activists hostile toward Jewish students, not just Israel*

For many years we’ve been documenting anti-Israel activity on U.S. university and college campuses, typically part of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement and carried out by student groups like _Students for Justice in Palestine_.

In these prior posts we’ve described many instances when this Israel-related activism has crossed over the line into blatant anti-Jewish animus, including at schools as diverse as Vassar, Oberlin, and University of Illinois.

It’s important to “unmask” the SJP student chapters, including how many of them launch attacksagainst Jewish and Zionist students, try to shut down programming about Israel and even Jewish-themed events and guest speaker events involving non-Jews that are hosted by Hillel and other Jewish campus groups, and deliberately work to ostracize and exclude pro-Israel students from various campus activities.

Now a new AMCHA Initiative study (pdf.) released last week provides further empirical confirmation of how this Israel-related harassment and intimidation is contributing to an increasingly hostile campus environment for Jewish students—even more so than do incidents involving ‘classic’ antisemitism (i.e., instances of Nazi swastika graffiti).

This new AMCHA study is important because it highlights how BDS isn't only directed against Israeli academic institutions but also targets _individuals_ for harm. As the report shows, an increasingly prominent feature of BDS on American campuses is not only the promotion of the boycott of Israel, but also the boycotting of actual Jewish students and student groups

Researchers differentiated between incidents that deliberately and directly intended to cause harm to Jewish students—like bullying, speech suppression, physical attacks and threats, destruction of property—and incidents where bigoted and prejudicial opinions about Jews and/or Israel were expressed, but without any evidence of an intention to harm.

In addition, AMCHA also coded for whether an incident was carried out by a person acting on his or her own or by more than one person—and whether perpetrators were affiliated with particular campus or off-campus groups.

_*"Annual report on anti-Semitic activity on U.S. campuses: Israel-related anti-Semitic incidents were considerably more likely to contribute to a hostile environment for Jewish students than incidents involving classic anti-Semitism Campus Antisemitism Report 2017 – AMCHA Initiative"

— Shmuel Rosner (@rosnersdomain) August 8, 2018*_
​Researchers differentiated between incidents that deliberately and directly intended to cause harm to Jewish students—like bullying, speech suppression, physical attacks and threats, destruction of property—and incidents where bigoted and prejudicial opinions about Jews and/or Israel were expressed, but without any evidence of an intention to harm.

In addition, AMCHA also coded for whether an incident was carried out by a person acting on his or her own or by more than one person—and whether perpetrators were affiliated with particular campus or off-campus groups.

*Key Findings of AMCHA’s New Report*​
*Three key findings emerge from the data:*​

_*Israel-related antisemitic incidents are considerably more likely to contribute to a hostile campus atmosphere for Jewish students than are incidents which involve ‘classic’ types of antisemitic expression.*_
One of the main findings revealed from the AMCHA analysis is that while classic antisemitic incidents outnumbered Israel-related incidents three to one, less than 25% of these classic antisemitic incidents—even those where genocidal expression was a common feature—demonstrated an intent to harm Jewish students and groups on campus, while a whopping 94% of the Israel-related incidents did exhibit an intent to cause harm (pp. 6, 9).






*

2.Israel-related incidents are becoming “significantly more flagrant” and are increasingly characterized by a shift from a focus on anti-Israel boycotts and 
divestment campaigns to actual boycotts of Jewish students and student groups.*​
44% of Israel-related incidents involved behavior designed to silence Jewish and Zionist students, including disrupting or defacing Israel-related events, displays, and trips;
76% of Israel-related incidents involved behavior that personally targeted Jewish and Zionist students or groups, denigrating and demonizing them so as to exclude them from campus activities.
In addition, these Israel-related incidents (with intent to harm) were 6.5 times more likely to have multiple perpetrators and these offenders were 7 times more likely to be affiliated with specific groups than in the case of the classic antisemitic incidents, where perpetrators typically acted alone.


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## rylah (Sep 26, 2018)

*In U.C.L.A. Debate Over Jewish Student,*
*Echoes on Campus of Old Biases*​
The council, in a meeting that took place on Feb. 10, voted first to reject Ms. Beyda’s nomination, with four members against her. Then, at the prodding of a faculty adviser there who pointed out that belonging to Jewish organizations was not a conflict of interest, the students revisited the question and unanimously put her on the board.

But in the weeks since, that uncomfortable debate has upended this campus of 29,600 students that has long been central to the identity of Los Angeles. It has set off an anguished discussion of how Jews are treated, particularly in comparison with other groups that are more typically viewed as victims of discrimination, such as African-Americans and gays and lesbians.

The session — a complete recording of which has been removed from YouTube — has served to spotlight what appears to be a surge of hostile sentiment directed against Jews at many campuses in the country, often a byproduct of animosity toward the policies of Israel. This is one of many campuses where the student council passed, on a second try and after fierce debate, a resolution supporting the Boycotts, Divestment and Sanctions movement aimed at pressuring Israel.

Reports of anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish sentiment have been on the rise across the country in recent years, especially directed at younger Jews, researchers said. Barry A. Kosmin, a Trinity College researcher and a co-author of a study issued last month that found extensive examples of anti-Semitism directed at college students, said he had not come across anything as striking as what happened at U.C.L.A.

“It’s egregious and startling,” Mr. Kosmin said. “If they had used this with any other group — sexual, racial, any kind of identity group — they would have realized it was illegal.”

Yet some Jewish leaders here questioned whether Mr. Block or the students appreciated the meaning of the event. John L. Rosove, the senior rabbi at Temple Israel of Hollywood, said the incident “reflects something deeper, more troubling, insidious, and pervasive not just at U.C.L.A. but on college campuses nationwide.”

“I am not one who sees anti-Semites lurking under every bed,” he wrote in his blog. “I am not a fear-monger. I do not believe that all criticism of Jews or the state of Israel is necessarily anti-Semitic.”

“Yet,” he said, “our inability to use the term anti-Semitism when it concerns Jews, when we don’t have a problem calling other forms of ethnic and religious bigotry what it is, raises disturbing questions about prevalent attitudes towards Jews, Judaism, Zionism, and the state of Israel.”


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## rylah (Sep 27, 2018)

BDS =  Hamas on US Campus


Hamas covenant states

*Article Eight:*
Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Koran its constitution: 
*Jihad *is its path and *death* for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.​
*Article Eleven:*
This is the law governing the land of Palestine in the Islamic *Sharia (law) *
and the same goes for any land the Moslems have conquered by force, because during the times of *(Islamic) conquests,* the Moslems consecrated these lands to Moslem generations till the Day of Judgement.​
*Article Thirteen:*
"*But the Jews *will not be pleased with thee, neither the Christians, until thou follow their religion; say, The direction of Allah is the true direction. And verily if thou follow their desires, after the knowledge which hath been given thee, thou shalt find no patron or protector against Allah." (The Cow - verse 120).

*"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."*
​These people ^^^^ should be BANNED from US soil, not just the universities.
If You wake up now, only after reaching a point where these anti-Jewish attacks cannot swept under the carpet anymore because of their epidemic proportions - You are already in a big doodoo as a society.


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## Ecocertifmrl (Sep 29, 2018)

I generally don't see anything wrong with verbally attacking a jew if they don't admit that what israel is doing is wrong.

So call it anti semitism. It's your problem when that word becomes different through manipulation. It will turn against you but that is okay with me.


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## fncceo (Sep 29, 2018)

Ecocertifmrl said:


> I generally don't see anything wrong with verbally attacking a jew



Be aware.  These days, we attack back.


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## Ecocertifmrl (Sep 29, 2018)

fncceo said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> > I generally don't see anything wrong with verbally attacking a jew
> ...




These days?

The israelis made Krav Maga - they are dangerous people.


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## Kondor3 (Sep 29, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > BlackFlag said:
> ...


Muslim-Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank can have all the rights they want... on the *east* bank of the Jordan River... where they belong now.

The so-called State of Palestine is a stillborn fetus... a thing that never was... and never will be.

Time for Muslim-Arab Palestinians to come to grips with reality, pack up, and leave for other lands where they'll be more welcome.


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## Kondor3 (Sep 29, 2018)

BlackFlag said:


> ...Oppression by religion is condemned across the 1st world except for 1 country.


Perhaps the objects of the exercise should have come to the table and negotiated with the Israelis in good faith, long ago.

Too late now.


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## member (Sep 29, 2018)

Ecocertifmrl said:


> I generally don't see anything wrong with verbally attacking a jew if they don't admit that what israel is doing is wrong.
> 
> So call it anti semitism. It's your problem when that word becomes different through manipulation. It will turn against you but that is okay with me.












 joanscaloppina? _che cosa ?_ 

 non capisco ....


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Sep 29, 2018)

Kondor3 said:


> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



So, how come the data says that Arabs were the majority of Palestine / Israel in the 1940's, and that Arabs owned more land than Jews in the 1940's?


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## rylah (Sep 29, 2018)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > BlackFlag said:
> ...



The way they've come into possession of those lands is exactly the way they've lost them.


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## rylah (Sep 29, 2018)

Ecocertifmrl said:


> I generally don't see anything wrong with verbally attacking a jew if they don't admit that what israel is doing is wrong.
> 
> So call it anti semitism. It's your problem when that word becomes different through manipulation. It will turn against you but that is okay with me.



Why should a Jew be *attacked* for not submitting to Your narrative?
Most Jewish people just want to study in their schools without getting Swastikas on their doors, without getting attacked by violent mobs, and without having to be targeted for merely being a Jew.


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## Shusha (Sep 29, 2018)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > BlackFlag said:
> ...



The "data" assigns all land not owned by Jews as being owned by Arabs. Even if it wasn't owned by Arabs. In other words, it deliberately equated all sovereign land as being privately owned Arab land. It's a false equivalency.


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## Kondor3 (Sep 29, 2018)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> ...So, how come the data says that Arabs were the majority of Palestine / Israel in the 1940's, and that Arabs owned more land than Jews in the 1940's?


Who gives a rat's ass?

That was then.

This is now.

Time to drive that scum onto the East Bank of the Jordan.


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 30, 2018)

Shusha said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...


All land that is not privately owned is communal land. It is owned collectively by the citizens.


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## Kondor3 (Sep 30, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> ...All land that is not privately owned is communal land. It is owned collectively by the citizens.


None of that matters anymore.

That was then.

This is now.

Deed title has changed hands.

Here are a few photos of the title-guarantee company...


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## rylah (Oct 2, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> ...



Automatic exclusion of Jews from collective rights  - *is the definition of Antisemitism.*


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 2, 2018)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
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Not true. Palestinian Jews had the same rights as everybody else.


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## Hollie (Oct 2, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
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Yes they do. Just ask Yahya Sinwar.


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## rylah (Oct 2, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
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Same rights - is when You automatically exclude Jews from collective ownership??
*This is a vivid example of classic antisemitism in its' oldest form promoted by the BDS.*


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## rylah (Oct 2, 2018)

P F Tinmore what is so funny about excluding Jews from the rest of society?


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## rylah (Oct 2, 2018)

*Is Ottawa actually threatening hate charges against BDS groups?*


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 2, 2018)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore what is so funny about excluding Jews from the rest of society?


When did I ever say that?


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## rylah (Oct 2, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore what is so funny about excluding Jews from the rest of society?
> ...



You said:
_*"All land that is not privately owned is communal land. It is owned collectively by the citizens."*_
as an argument that public land is "Arab land", thus automatically excluding all Jews from collective ownership and citizenship.This is repeated each time a word 'Palestinian' is used to refer exclusively to Arabs.


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 2, 2018)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
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rylah said:


> as an argument that public land is "Arab land",


I never said that.


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## rylah (Oct 2, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
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Your dishonesty is ridiculous.
When arguing that public land automatically belongs to Arabs, You exclude all Jews.

Cassic antisemitism.


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 2, 2018)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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I never said that.


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## rylah (Oct 2, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
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You can try and use denial when answering to the court.
Helped Eichman when facing all the evidence...oh wait.


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## rylah (Oct 2, 2018)

P F Tinmore
You support Hamas?


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## rylah (Oct 2, 2018)

*Muslim Student Speaks Out Against BDS Bigotry*
This Muslim student at the University of Johannesburg speaks out against the BDS activists after Palestinian human rights activist Bassem Eid was threatened by boycott Israel (BDS) activists during his speech criticizing the the boycott movement. Interesting that even those who don't agree with all of Israel's policies can separate that from antisemitism, but the BDS movement cannot:


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## rylah (Oct 2, 2018)

*Antisemitic BDS activists admit they are boycotting Jewish businesses*
**


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## Mindful (Oct 2, 2018)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore
> You support Hamas?



Good question.

I wonder if he'll respond.


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## rylah (Oct 2, 2018)

*Frankfurt City Council advances law against “deeply antisemitic” movement*

There is a growing recognition of the anti-Semitic nature of the anti-Israel Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement. Anti-Israel activists claim BDS was a spontaneous 2005 call from “Palestinian civil society” for an academic, cultural and economic boycott of Israel to end “the occupation.” (They are deliberately vague on what is occupied, and the leadership and activists make clear they consider all of Israel occupied.)

As I have demonstrated, the real history of BDS traces itself to the anti-Jewish boycotts in the British Mandate for Palestine prior to Israel’s existence, the Arab League Boycott of Jewish businesses and Israel, and the anti-Semitic Tehran and Durban conferences in 2001. For details, see my lecture, The REAL history of the BDS movement.

In Germany, the recognition of the antisemitic nature of BDS is growing. We recently wrote about a declaration at the University of Frankfurt, Anti-Israel BDS Following ‘Nazi Tradition’, Declares Student Gov’t at Germany’s Goethe University and also at Leipzig University, READ: German university student council resolution declaring BDS anti-Semitic.


It is not surprising that Frankfurt is among the cities most ready to recognize the tie between anti-Israelism and antisemitism. As we reported, in 2014 Frankfurt saw anti-Israel protests in which anti-Jewish slogans were openly displayed, such as *“The Jews are Beasts”:*


----------



## Mindful (Oct 2, 2018)

The last time I was in Paris, there was an anti Israel parade marching down the Montparnasse Boulevard. It was frightening in its barbarous ferocity. Heavy riot squad, looking like mafia thugs. Sprinklings of white Europeans mingling with the mob.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 2, 2018)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore
> You support Hamas?


I think Hamas is shooting itself in the foot and dragging down the Palestinian cause by injecting religion into a colonial problem. It really confuses the issue.

I do reject, however, Israel's terrorist name calling campaign.


----------



## Hollie (Oct 2, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore
> ...



That's comical as you have consistently maintained "this is not about religion".


----------



## José (Oct 2, 2018)

> Originally posted by *rylah*
> @P F Tinmore
> You support Hamas?



I support them as *refugees* wanting to return home not as *theocrats* wanting to create a islamic state *after* they return home. 

It would be a disgrace to see the jewish racial dictatorship being peacefully dismantled at long last only to be replaced by a islamic religious dictatorship.


----------



## José (Oct 2, 2018)

> That's comical as you have consistently maintained "this is not about religion".



The overwhelming majority of palestinians reject a theocratic state that imposes sharia (the diaspora in Jordan, Lebannon, Syria and the rest of the world is particularly secular).

And Tinmore is right... it is a typical ethnocratic conflict between settlers from another continent and the native population.


----------



## Hollie (Oct 2, 2018)

José said:


> > That's comical as you have consistently maintained "this is not about religion".
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You might want to read the Hamas Charter. The pronoun "Allah" appears something like 98 times.

Tinmore is wrong. Although, that depends on what argument Tinmore is waffling about,  as the entirety of the geographic area known as Palestine is considere an Islamist waqf. You should familiarize yourself with that term because it is deeply rooted in Islamist ideology and refers to an endowment to islamics by 
Allah. <----- there's that term again.


----------



## rylah (Oct 2, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore
> ...


Nice dancing around.
So You have no problem with their genocidal calls to annihilate the Jews?


----------



## rylah (Oct 2, 2018)

José said:


> > Originally posted by *rylah*
> > @P F Tinmore
> > You support Hamas?
> 
> ...



Hamas identifies as an invading colonial power in it's covenant, not as refugees.
Basically it's just a competing version of the Caliphate.


----------



## rylah (Oct 2, 2018)

José said:


> > That's comical as you have consistently maintained "this is not about religion".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's total BS, Hamas was elected by a majority.
Both PLO and Hamas legislation is Sharia Law.

By excluding the Jews from native population Your argument automatically falls into the category of antisemitism.


----------



## rylah (Oct 2, 2018)

Q. How much cognitive dissonance does it take to tweet _*“I don’t hate Jews, I hate Zionists”*_ just SEVEN MINUTES after saying_* “when Palestine is returned, just know there will be NO mercy what so ever, every last Jew will die”*_?


----------



## Shusha (Oct 2, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Not true. Palestinian Jews had the same rights as everybody else.



When you have to qualify a statement by separating a group into pieces -- some of whom have rights and some of whom do not -- you are displaying anti-semitism.  

The correct argument to the claim of "Arab land" would have been that it was "land belonging to communally to legal citizens of the territory".  You should be arguing WITH me and not AGAINST me.  

Whenever someone argues "Arab land" you should be arguing, "No, its Palestinian Arab and Palestinian Jewish land".


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 2, 2018)

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Not true. Palestinian Jews had the same rights as everybody else.
> ...


I never used the term "Arab land."

Why do you always have to divide people?


----------



## Hollie (Oct 2, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



That’s really ironic. You should read the PLO Charter prior to whining about dividing people. That piece of Arab-Moslem fascism literally screams out Arabism and Arab supremacist ideals.


----------



## Kondor3 (Oct 2, 2018)

Muslim-Arab Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza need to pack up and move elsewhere.

While they still can.


----------



## rylah (Oct 2, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Hamas is using the terms_ "Isalmic Land",_ _"Waqf Land"_ and _"lands conquered by Islam by force" _
several times in their covenant. In adition Hamas chief spokesman promised to:


 "to cleanse Palestine of Jews by 2022"
"establish a Caliphate"

BDS and Hams are mutual supporters, and identify as such in public.
BDS is basically a Hamas front on the campus.


----------



## Shusha (Oct 2, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Others did. Why aren't you calling them out for it?


----------



## Coyote (Oct 2, 2018)

Kondor3 said:


> Muslim-Arab Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza need to pack up and move elsewhere.
> 
> While they still can.



Why?


----------



## Coyote (Oct 2, 2018)

rylah said:


> José said:
> 
> 
> > > That's comical as you have consistently maintained "this is not about religion".
> ...



It isn’t total BS.


rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



Isn’t the same exclusionary principle at play when you refer to Palestinians as “Arab Moslems” implying they are foreign invaders in a Jewish land?


----------



## José (Oct 2, 2018)

> Originally posted by *rylah*
> By excluding the Jews from native population Your argument automatically falls into the category of antisemitism.



No sir.

European converts to Judaism are physically indistinguishable from their fellow european converts to Christianity.

They didn't speak any language derived from Hebrew or Aramaic, they eat the dishes and wear the clothes they themselves created in Eastern Europe and they had no nationalistic link to Palestine only a religious one.

By stating those europeans of jewish faith were part of the native population of Palestine *YOU *immediately join the group of those who stubbornily refuse to put down the crack pipe.


----------



## Shusha (Oct 2, 2018)

José said:


> > Originally posted by *rylah*
> > By excluding the Jews from native population Your argument automatically falls into the category of antisemitism.
> 
> 
> ...



What do you propose as an objective test to see if someone and all their descendants are "converts" and not "real Jews"?  And how will you apply that to Arab Palestinians?


----------



## José (Oct 3, 2018)

> Originally posted by *Shusha*
> What do you propose as an objective test to see if someone and all their descendants are "converts" and not "real Jews"? And how will you apply that to Arab Palestinians?



Confronted with the undisputable fact that the conflict in Palestine is an ethnocratic struggle that pits the native population against settlers from Europe and unable to present any valid counter-argument, the zionists, in total desperation, start using the tactic of trying to at least confuse, muddle the issue with pathetic, crazy arguments such as this:

*"We can only state the IP conflict is an ethnocratic conflict after we perform genetic tests in at least 10 million Jews and 10 million palestinians."*

"Since we cannot deny the natives vs settlers nature of the conflict let's start splitting hairs, let's raise the bar to an impossible height by demanding individual genetic tests on each and every Jew and Palestinian."

"Since we cannot deny the big picture of colonialism let's start trying to delegitimize the true nature of the conflict by focusing on a microscopic, irrelevant level."


----------



## José (Oct 3, 2018)

I have seen this same zionist using this crazy people' "argument" with naive, credulous posters like Coyote several times and it seemed to be a very successful tactic given the fact that Coyote didn't want or couln't expose the sheer madness of it.

The problem is José is no Coyote.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl (Oct 3, 2018)

rylah said:


> BDS and Hams are mutual supporters, and identify as such in public.
> BDS is basically a Hamas front on the campus.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl (Oct 3, 2018)

Kondor3 said:


> Muslim-Arab Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza need to pack up and move elsewhere.
> 
> While they still can.


*EXCEPT THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO.*


----------



## Ecocertifmrl (Oct 3, 2018)

Shusha said:


> When you have to qualify a statement by separating a group into pieces -- some of whom have rights and some of whom do not -- you are displaying anti-semitism.


so chauvinism is also antisemitism? Your terms are getting complicated. How about writing your very own dictinary and add it here so it is possible to converse with the english language with you?


----------



## rylah (Oct 3, 2018)

José said:


> > Originally posted by *rylah*
> > By excluding the Jews from native population Your argument automatically falls into the category of antisemitism.
> 
> 
> ...




*Wait what?!*
Measuring Jews by physical appearance to exclude them from collective rights - where have we seen this before? ...Oh yeah Nazi Germany eugenics:







*And I thought You tried to prove that BDS wasn't using racist rhetorics...truly sad.*
You know why? Because the US is one our few true friends all along the 3,500 years of troubled Jewish history, and I don't know any world power that attempted to erase the Jews and didn't go down the sink of history, works like a Swiss watch.
*I hope America takes measures fast and confronts that mental disease that's being spread by Your racist ilk. The American society deserves better than this. *


----------



## fncceo (Oct 3, 2018)

José said:


> > Originally posted by *Shusha*
> > What do you propose as an objective test to see if someone and all their descendants are "converts" and not "real Jews"? And how will you apply that to Arab Palestinians?
> 
> 
> ...




Does it ever bother you that no matter how much you believe what you're saying, it has absolutely zero effect on the existence of the State of Israel?


----------



## Shusha (Oct 3, 2018)

José said:


> > Originally posted by *Shusha*
> > What do you propose as an objective test to see if someone and all their descendants are "converts" and not "real Jews"? And how will you apply that to Arab Palestinians?
> 
> 
> ...




Yeah.  Um.  I didn't say any of that.  So again, what would be your objective test for distinguishing converts from "real Jews"?  Since you were the one who brought up the idea of distinguishing converts from "real Jews".


----------



## rylah (Oct 3, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Isn’t the same exclusionary principle at play when you refer to Palestinians as “Arab Moslems” implying they are foreign invaders in a Jewish land?



This is a red herring and an offensive one.
Why?
1.Because my grandfather, G-d give him long years, is a Palestinian Jew, so were at least 20 generations of my family after they've arrived from the most ancient Jewish diaspora community in the middle east - Babylon.

2. Because when the different posters here argued for transfer - I argue that it would be a catastrophe for the Israeli society in whole. Yet You stick this accusation to me as if I was to exclude them from my society.

3. Because my family has long  (more than a century) friendship with the respected Arab Aboulafia family and several others less known clans, who do not deny of their foreign origins, and it never EVER was an issue between us.

4. Because while the word "Palestine" coming from MY LANGUAGE - means exactly that - INVADERS, the Arab governments identify officially as invaders who took the land by force, and their flag is represnting the 4 Caliphates. Yet You want me to lie about such basic undeniable truth  in favor of Your twisted moral relativism, projections and PC bs -  Your main measure of truth is Your emotions regarding the subject: And somehow You feel it's acceptable to* emotionally blackmail me* to deny truth that Arabs themselves don't deny, only to feed Your delusions about the fairness of the world on my behalf.

But the most disturbing thing is that You're trying to extract this guilt by comparing Jewish independence, heritage and truth to antisemitism - the most long documented vile and violent form of violence that was inflicted on any nation on earth (that I know of) throughout the centuries. You're comparing our struggle to independence to antisemitism, a struggle that continues to this day against a group of people who made it their goal in life to ERASE my people from their ONLY land, while also stealing every aspect of Jewish identity to do that. That You even dare to do it shows how detached are You from the reality of one of the most persecuted nations on earth - and You do the same thing our enemies do - trying to water down and steal our identity by comparing antisemitism to our defense against the Arab nation.

I've spoken in Your favor when people accused You of antisemitism, I'm saddened by the fact that I can't anymore - because my people lost a friend to the most vile ideology used against us.


----------



## José (Oct 3, 2018)

> Originally posted by *Shusha*
> Yeah. Um. I didn't say any of that. So again, what would be *your objective test for distinguishing converts from "real Jews"*? Since you were the one who brought up the idea of distinguishing converts from "real Jews".



Thanks for confirming everything I said:

Translation:

"Since I cannot deny the historical fact that the founding population of the state of Israel consisted of hundreds of thousands of unwanted immigrants, of europeans of jewish faith physically indistinguishable from europeans of christian faith.

Since I cannot deny the arrival of all those european colonists all I can do to confuse the issue is make a batshit crazy demand that the european ancestry of each and every Askhenazi Jew living in Israel be proved "*through an objective test*"."


----------



## José (Oct 3, 2018)

> Originally posted by *rilah*
> This is a red herring and an offensive one.
> Why?
> 1.Because my grandfather, G-d give him long years, is a Palestinian Jew, so were at least 20 generations of my family after they've arrived from the most ancient Jewish diaspora community in the middle east - Babylon.



If your grandfather's ancestors arrived after the 80's chances are they were colonists not "Palestinian Jews".

Your grandfather is a native but his presence in Palestine and the state in which he lives are the fruits of a colonialist, supremacist society that still exists in Palestine.


----------



## rylah (Oct 3, 2018)

José said:


> > Originally posted by *Shusha*
> > Yeah. Um. I didn't say any of that. So again, what would be *your objective test for distinguishing converts from "real Jews"*? Since you were the one who brought up the idea of distinguishing converts from "real Jews".
> 
> 
> ...


Classic irrational racism on display.
*I assume You attempted to prove BDS wasn't antisemitic? *Colossal failure on Your part.
I guess I should thank the openness of Your ilk for providing all the material needed for the Department of Education to move further with the implementation of the law against hate crimes, as it is promoted  in schools nationwide by BDS.


----------



## rylah (Oct 3, 2018)

José said:


> > Originally posted by *rilah*
> > This is a red herring and an offensive one.
> > Why?
> > 1.Because my grandfather, G-d give him long years, is a Palestinian Jew, so were at least 20 generations of my family after they've arrived from the most ancient Jewish diaspora community in the middle east - Babylon.
> ...



Did You even read what I've written?
Sometimes it seems Jew-hatred is a mental disability causing a serious brain damage exponentially with each stage of development.

*If I were You I'd seriously consider suing BDS for causing an irreversible damage to Your overall mental health. *


----------



## José (Oct 3, 2018)

I was referring to the european part of your family.


----------



## rylah (Oct 3, 2018)

José said:


> I was referring to the european part of your family.



My wive's family immigrated from Europe, 90% of her family was wiped out for merely being Jews, by the racist ilk that used the same racist measurements as You do, as an excuse to wipe  out any and all who even remotely looked or reminded them of a Jews.
*Q.Do You have more of that self defeating racist BDS "wisdom" that we can share with the Department of Education?*


----------



## Kondor3 (Oct 3, 2018)

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Muslim-Arab Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza need to pack up and move elsewhere.
> ...


It's time to take that choice away from them.

Time to push them across the Jordan to the East Bank, where they belong nowadays.

Consider it payback for the expulsion of the Jews from so many Muslim-Arab countries since 1948.

Payback's a bitch.

Incentivize them to move with money, at first.

For the idiots who remain behind, incentivize them with firepower.

And tell the UN to shove it along the way.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 3, 2018)

Kondor3 said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...


Oh my, so much hate.


----------



## Shusha (Oct 3, 2018)

José said:


> > Originally posted by *Shusha*
> > Yeah. Um. I didn't say any of that. So again, what would be *your objective test for distinguishing converts from "real Jews"*? Since you were the one who brought up the idea of distinguishing converts from "real Jews".
> 
> 
> ...



So your objective test is that if they were living elsewhere they are converts and not real Jews?


----------



## José (Oct 3, 2018)

> Originally posted by *Shusha*
> So your objective test is that if they were living elsewhere they are converts and not real Jews?



There can be no mistaking the striking resemblance between Yemenite Jews and Yemenite Muslims, between North African Jews and the indigenous Berber population of the region, between Ethiopian Jews and their African neighbors, between the Cochin Jews and the other inhabitants of southwestern India, or *between the Jews of Eastern Europe and the members of the Turkish and Slavic tribes that inhabited the Caucasus and southeast Russia*. 

To the dismay of anti-Semites, *the Jews were never a foreign “ethnos” of invaders from afar* but rather *an autochthonous population* whose ancestors, for the most part, converted to Judaism before the arrival of Christianity or Islam.

*The Invention of the Land of Israel: From Holy Land to Homeland, Shlomo Sand - pag. 19*


----------



## Shusha (Oct 3, 2018)

José said:


> > Originally posted by *Shusha*
> > So your objective test is that if they were living elsewhere they are converts and not real Jews?
> 
> 
> ...




Oh dear.  Another Khazar idiot.


----------



## José (Oct 3, 2018)

> Originally posted by *Shusha*
> Oh dear. Another Khazar idiot.



The idiot would be the one who denies a reality that's in front of his eyes in favor of a mythological ancestry.

And the *depraved*,* pornographic* idiots would be an even more degenerate kind of individual who not only deny reality in favor of myth, but also actively use the myth to "legitimize" the dispossession of a native population whose ancestry is not mythological but absolutely real.


----------



## rylah (Oct 3, 2018)

José said:


> > Originally posted by *Shusha*
> > Oh dear. Another Khazar idiot.
> 
> 
> ...



What mythological ancestry?
It's pretty ironic when #BDS-holes use eugenics in an attempt to prove they're not racists.


----------



## Kondor3 (Oct 3, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> ...Oh my, so much hate.


Indeed. And the antidote is to expel the Haters (Muslim-Arab Palestinians) to the East Bank of the Jordan.


----------



## Kondor3 (Oct 3, 2018)

José said:


> > Originally posted by *Shusha*
> > Oh dear. Another Khazar idiot.
> 
> 
> ...


To hell with that mongrel rag-tag collection of so-called natives.


----------



## rylah (Oct 8, 2018)

*When calls to "Free Palestine" are followed by *
*calls to exterminate Jews*


----------



## rylah (Oct 8, 2018)




----------



## rylah (Oct 8, 2018)

*BDS logic:* pretend we're not spreading Jew-hatred,
but when we do let's blame it on the Jews.


----------



## rylah (Oct 22, 2018)

*European Parliament: Is BDS antisemitic?

*


----------



## rylah (Oct 22, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> OK, but none of the Palestinian advocacy groups in the US are affiliated with any so called "terrorist" groups. They are all non partisan. There is no there there.



True face of BDS











Q. Wonder why BDS is targeting Jews while covering for the enemies of US?


----------



## Mindful (Oct 22, 2018)

Rabbi Sacks is vocal on the topic:


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 23, 2018)

rylah said:


> *European Parliament: Is BDS antisemitic?
> 
> *


Four Zionists on a panel. I could see where that was going. Each had a deck of anti Semite cards that they played regularly throughout the program.

No anti Semitism here.

*The Case for Cultural & Academic Boycott of Israel with intro by Ken Loach*

**


----------



## Hollie (Oct 23, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > *European Parliament: Is BDS antisemitic?
> ...



Boycott Israel as a means to placate islamic terrorists?

That doesn't make sense.


----------



## Hollie (Oct 23, 2018)




----------



## rylah (Oct 23, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > *European Parliament: Is BDS antisemitic?
> ...



I don't understand, BDS role is to define antisemitism?

*The law is very clear on the definition, and it's the same as in the US.*


----------



## Mindful (Oct 23, 2018)

Because it _is _anti semitism. Nothing more, nothing less.

The new buzz words are _Israel _and _Zionist._

So one doesn't need to use the term _Jew.
_
Because that's what it really means, in the end.


----------



## rylah (Oct 23, 2018)

*Senior Hamas Official Fathi Hammad Promises to ‘Cleanse Palestine of the Filth of the Jews’*





Senior Hamas official Fathi Hammad announced at a rally on July 12 that the terrorist group will “cleanse Palestine of the filth of the Jews” by 2022. 

“We say, facing this challenge with courage and bravery: We are coming for you Netanyahu. We are coming for you Liberman,” he said. “We are coming to chop your heads off your necks. We are coming to chop off that entity and to destroy that army, which our prophet [Muhammad] informed us that we would defeat.”

*Which organization on the campus is a front of Hamas?*

Sure, no Jew hatred here,
and no documented party affiliation...


----------



## rylah (Oct 29, 2018)

*Crossing the Line : The New Face of Anti-Semitism on Campus
*Those stories in the movie resemble a lot to what happened with Jewish students in Iraq, Egypt and USSR as a prelude to the worst times.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 29, 2018)

rylah said:


> *Crossing the Line : The New Face of Anti-Semitism on Campus
> *Those stories in the movie resemble a lot to what happened with Jewish students in Iraq, Egypt and USSR as a prelude to the worst times.


None of this would happen without Israel. Israel is the lowest common denomination.


----------



## rylah (Oct 29, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > *Crossing the Line : The New Face of Anti-Semitism on Campus
> ...



It's like saying that violence and discrimination against African Americans was caused by Sudan rather than by Americans themselves.

Racist BDS-hole bigots certainly have a problem with a law protecting the Jewish minority.


----------



## Shusha (Oct 29, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> None of this would happen without Israel. Israel is the lowest common denomination.



You are reversing cause and effect.  Anti-semitism has been around for thousands of years.  It is the widespread, deeply embedded anti-semitism which is the source of the problem.  Israel is just the new focus of the existing anti-semitism.  

Here's the litmus test:  There is nothing inherently evil about a people wanting self-determination in their homeland.  Nor in people returning to their homeland.  Nor in people accessing and worshiping in their own holy places.  In fact, for most peoples of the world, these are seen as not only noble and worthy goals but actual human rights.


----------



## Hollie (Oct 29, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > *Crossing the Line : The New Face of Anti-Semitism on Campus
> ...


Actually, that's just typically ignorant. Hatred of Jews is enshrined in your Korans. You need to accept responsibility for what your ideology clearly delineates.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 29, 2018)

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > None of this would happen without Israel. Israel is the lowest common denomination.
> ...


Religion has nothing to do with it. If the occupation was Hindu, they would get the same response.


----------



## Shusha (Oct 29, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...




I said nothing about religion.  I said:  There is nothing inherently evil about a people wanting self-determination in their own homeland.  Nor in people returning to their homeland.  Nor in people accessing or worshiping in their own holy places. 

Are you claiming that it is inherently evil for the Hindu people to have self-determination in their own homeland?  To return to their own homeland?  To worship in their own holy places?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 29, 2018)

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...




How many of the settlers imported by the Zionists have ancestors from that territory?

Link?


----------



## Hollie (Oct 29, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



This has been addressed for you multiple times. Do a search. How many times does "Allah" appear in the Hamas charter? What specific group does "Allah" command moslems to revile.

Link?


----------



## Shusha (Oct 29, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> How many of the settlers Jewish people imported by the _Zionists Jewish people_ have ancestors from that territory?



Okay.  So we AGREE then that there is nothing inherently evil about wanting self-determination in one's own homeland, yes?  That there is nothing evil about returning to one's homeland, yes?  And that there is nothing evil about wanting to worship at one's own holy places, yes?  You AGREE with that concept, yes? 

I'm going to answer your question yet again with the same answer -- ALL OF THEM.  The Jewish people have the right to decide who belongs to the Jewish people.  No one else has that right.  This is inherent in the idea of a people.  Self-identification is a vital part of self-determination -- which you insist is a human right belonging to all peoples, remember?

Your dispute, then, is over the idea that the Jewish people originated in that homeland.  You deny that the Jewish people originate in that homeland.  Which is not only utterly ridiculous -- it proves the very point I was trying to make -- that antisemitism is the pre-existing, deeply embedded ROOT CAUSE of criticism against Jewish self-determination.


----------



## rylah (Oct 29, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Jewish people are an ethnic group with the longest presence in that territory, and they consider all Jews around the world as their family, BDS systematic attacks on a single tiny ethnic minority us the definition of hate crime. This raised concern in many countries where Jewish students were increasingly targeted, resulting in a revision of laws that protect from hate crime.

BDS attack on laws that protect the Jewish community is a burning hat on a thief.


----------



## member (Oct 29, 2018)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...




It's like saying that violence and discrimination against African Americans was caused by Sudan rather than by Americans themselves.


i don't know if you live in "the past" about BLACKS................american blacks.  yeah.  BARACK OBAMA is certainly not "representative" of BLACK america......





where i come from, black people [and LATINO].....like to call each other niger............it's niger this and niger that.  and they have their own way of speaking english...........brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.  they're the biggest *violent offenders* and racists around.....

it's a shame. *p.s.:*  isn't it the biggest hypocracy....****** is not "allowed" to spelled here.....BUT, where i come from.....*out of the mouths of blacks*..........._it's Nggr this and ngger that_..............white people....you see, without the whiteman helping .....that's nice.


----------



## rylah (Oct 30, 2018)

*Jewish students fall victim to vandalism and anti-Semitism*
Lev HaOlam fights destruction of mezuzahs, online harassment, acts of anti-Semitism carried out by BDS organizations on campuses.

The picture is pretty gloomy," says Ben David. "We're seeing a rise in the number of anti-Semitic actions against Israel and Zionism on campuses."

Ben David says that there is a significant increase in physical and verbal violence against students and pro-Israel associations, which create a hostile and threatening atmosphere.

Ben David also tells of anti-Semitic acts carried out by the Students For Justice in Palestine (SJP), in which Lara al-Qassem served as president, whose name appeared in headlines following the State's refusal to admit her to Israel, whilst the Supreme Court eventually granted her approval of entry. "The SJP constantly threatens, intimidates and virtually harasses via social media Hebrew-speaking students on campus. Jewish students fall victim to acts of vandalism, such as the destruction of mezuzahs from the doors of student residences and anti-Semitic hate speech."







Jewish students fall victim to vandalism and anti-Semitism


----------



## fncceo (Oct 30, 2018)

José said:


> hundreds of thousands of unwanted immigrants, of europeans of jewish faith physically indistinguishable from europeans of christian faith.



The Nazis didn't seem to have a hard time telling them apart.


----------



## rylah (Oct 30, 2018)

*Berkeley’s Safe Space for Jew-Hatred*

“In the Hadith, the Day of Judgment will never happen until you fight the Jews,” Hatem Bazian reportedly declared, “until the trees and stones will say, oh Muslim, there is a Jew hiding behind me. Come and kill him!”

That was in 1999.

Two years later, Bazian had co-founded Students for Justice in Palestine. Three years later, 79 members of his new SJP hate group were busted for disrupting a Holocaust Remembrance Day event.

At a rally to protest their arrests, Bazian told the mob to look at all the Jewish names on the buildings, “take a look at the type of names on the building around campus — Haas, Zellerbach — and decide who controls this university.”

Last year, the Islamist racist, who has done everything from defending an anti-Semitic mural, to accusing Jewish students of being ‘Zionist’ spies to fundraising for a Hamas front group, tweeted a stereotypical meme of an Orthodox Jew with the text, “Mom, LOOK! I IS CHOSEN! I CAN NOW KILL, RAPE, SMUGGLE ORGANS & STEAL THE LAND OF PALESTINIANS YAY #ASHKE-NAZI.”

Even UC Berkeley’s administration condemned Bazian’s “unacceptable anti-Semitism” while continuing to accept him. And now, Hatem Bazian has been appointed to Berkeley’s Peace and Justice Commission. The Commission, whose mission is finding peaceful alternatives to war, now includes a Hamas supporter.

Bazian is also one of Davila’s donors. As is fellow anti-Israel UC Berkeley prof Andrew Gutierrez, who was caught heckling a Jewish rally against anti-Semitism after swastikas had turned on up campus.

*SJP- founder incitement to violence and Jew-hatred on US campus:*


----------



## rylah (Oct 30, 2018)

*SJP advocates call to arms and gun violence*
While young people across the country are  mobilizing to condemn gun violence, Students for Justice in Palestine Santa Cruz are taking a different route.  This deeply disturbing post advocating for "armed resistance" recently appeared on the Santa Cruz and other SJP chapters.


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## rylah (Oct 30, 2018)

*Is BDS a front for Hamas on campus?*


----------



## rylah (Oct 30, 2018)

BDS member at the University of Michigan (UM-Dearborn)


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## rylah (Nov 5, 2018)

*Petition Calls on UCLA to Cancel NSJP ConferencePetition Calls on UCLA to Cancel NSJP Conference*
A recent petition started by Stop Anti-Semitism website is calling on UCLA to cancel the upcoming National Students for Justice in Palestine (NSJP) on Nov. 16-18 and already has tens of thousands of signatures.

The petition, titled “Help prevent the next Pittsburgh – tell UCLA to cancel SJP’s annual hate conference!”, notes that SJP founder Hatem Bazian has uttered “horrific anti-Semitic and violence-inciting statements,” such as calling for an “intifada” in the United States and that “there are large number of Zionists who were engaged with Nazi Germany.”

The petition also highlighted various anti-Semitic statements from SJP members:





Additionally, the petition points out that SJP has heaped praise upon convicted terrorists Rasmea Odeh and Leila Khaled and has ties to terror groups such as Hamas, Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad.

“Because of SJP’s closed-door policy of not allowing any non-SJP students to attend the Conference, UCLA is essentially allowing SJP to continue spewing their messages of violence, Anti-Semitism, and support of known terrorists,” the petition states.

“If not canceled, we call to hold UCLA accountable by investigating it for violation of anti-discrimination laws, its own policies against discrimination as were adopted by the UC Regents, and violation of Title VI of the Civil Rights Act which prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color, or national origin (including Anti-Semitism) for federally assisted programs and activities!” the petition concludes.

As of publication time, there were more than 16,000 signatures to the petition.
*Add Your signature at  Change.org*


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## rylah (Nov 8, 2018)

“Samidoun-Palestinian Prisoner Solidarity Network” is an organization that operates in the U.S., as well as in the Middle East, Europe and Canada. While Samidoun claims to be a human rights group advocating for political prisoners, but actually operates as a proxy of The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), a designated foreign terror organization.

Samidoun intentionally masks its relationship to the PFLP, withholding key information about its staff members and publishing content in English that belies its real agenda as expressed in Arabic. For instance, Samidoun’s coordinator, Khaled Barakat, is a senior PFLP member and the head of PFLP’s Foreign Operations Department. He and his wife Charlotte Kates, also a Samidoun coordinator, utilize Samidoun as a platform to promote the PFLP’s agenda, ideas and content abroad. Other leaders of Samidoun are also PFLP members, and the large majority of Samidoun’s activities are organized in support of the PFLP and its jailed terrorists. Particularly notable is the ongoing “Campaign to Free Ahmad Saadat”, PFLP’s Secretary-General imprisoned in Israel. In addition, two of Samidoun’s leaders have connections to high-ranking Hamas officials.

*Mustafa the BDS Activist
*


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## rylah (Nov 8, 2018)

#NoHateOnCampus
For years, Students for “Justice” in Palestine (SJP) chapters and affiliates across North America have gotten away with spreading hate, supporting violence, and violating free speech. Their national body, National SJP has demonstrable ties to extremist organizations and convicted terrorists, publicly calls for the destruction of Zionism, and praises efforts to disrupt and silence speakers who support Israel’s right to exist. Sign our petition urging the US Department of Education and higher education governing bodies in Canada to condemn this hate and ensure that universities will hold SJP groups accountable for any violations of student rights.

*SIGN THE PETITION: #No Hate On Campus! *


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 8, 2018)

rylah said:


> “Samidoun-Palestinian Prisoner Solidarity Network” is an organization that operates in the U.S., as well as in the Middle East, Europe and Canada. While Samidoun claims to be a human rights group advocating for political prisoners, but actually operates as a proxy of The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), a designated foreign terror organization.
> 
> Samidoun intentionally masks its relationship to the PFLP, withholding key information about its staff members and publishing content in English that belies its real agenda as expressed in Arabic. For instance, Samidoun’s coordinator, Khaled Barakat, is a senior PFLP member and the head of PFLP’s Foreign Operations Department. He and his wife Charlotte Kates, also a Samidoun coordinator, utilize Samidoun as a platform to promote the PFLP’s agenda, ideas and content abroad. Other leaders of Samidoun are also PFLP members, and the large majority of Samidoun’s activities are organized in support of the PFLP and its jailed terrorists. Particularly notable is the ongoing “Campaign to Free Ahmad Saadat”, PFLP’s Secretary-General imprisoned in Israel. In addition, two of Samidoun’s leaders have connections to high-ranking Hamas officials.
> 
> ...


Membership in different organizations do not create an affiliation.

Very misleading video.


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## rylah (Nov 8, 2018)

*Hamas front on Campus*
The Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) is Hamas on Campus. 
An organization dedicated to wiping Israel off the map. Find out how the The SJP was created to be Hamas on Campus and work in tandem with the Muslim Brotherhood proxy, the Muslim Students Association (MSA).


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## rylah (Nov 8, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > “Samidoun-Palestinian Prisoner Solidarity Network” is an organization that operates in the U.S., as well as in the Middle East, Europe and Canada. While Samidoun claims to be a human rights group advocating for political prisoners, but actually operates as a proxy of The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), a designated foreign terror organization.
> ...



Ironic since You hunt Jews who voice their support for Israel on campuses shouting "Zionist pigs" or "Zionist spies".

That's exactly where it all ends and begins - the founders and key activists of BDS are Hamas members on campus who's activity has systematically caused violence and threats of armed assaults against Jewish students on campuses nationwide, *because of their affiliation with Israel. or other Jews who support the Jewish state.
*
BDS can't use American campuses as a cover for direct assaults on a single minority.


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## rylah (Nov 17, 2018)

Does this sound progressive to you? Women’s March co-founder and admirer of Antisemite Louis Farrakhan, Linda Sarsour, accuses Jews of being more loyal to Israel than their own country.

*This is classic, old school, antisemitism.*
*



*
*StandWithUs*


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## rylah (Nov 17, 2018)

*More than half of all US states legally oppose BDS.  *

Kentucky becomes the 26th state to oppose Jew- hatred
More: https://jewishjournal.com/…/kentucky-becomes-26th-stat…/amp/


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## Shusha (Nov 17, 2018)

rylah said:


> Does this sound progressive to you? Women’s March co-founder and admirer of Antisemite Louis Farrakhan, Linda Sarsour, accuses Jews of being more loyal to Israel than their own country.
> 
> *This is classic, old school, antisemitism.*
> *
> ...





Hahahaha!  Its not like she is going to choose her allegiance to democracy and free speech over her committment to Jew-hate, sharia law, Islam and Palestine.  She is such an obvious hypocrite, I can't understand why anyone would fall for it.  Oh yeah.  Trump-land.  Ick.


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## rylah (Nov 18, 2018)

National SJP has a new ‘incendiary’ logo that glorifies terrorism. Find out how UCLA is giving them a platform to spread their anti-Semitism!


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 18, 2018)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...





rylah said:


> ronic since You hunt Jews who voice their support for Israel on campuses shouting "Zionist pigs" or "Zionist spies".


I have never heard that except in Israeli propaganda videos.


----------



## rylah (Nov 19, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Denial is prevalent among the degenerate antisemites.
No one expected BDS to actually own up to their violence against the Jewish students.

Remember that next time when passing instructions to FBI investigations among the cult members.


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## rylah (Nov 19, 2018)

Tbakhi is a member of the Muslim Students Association (MSA) at the University of Illinois, Chicago.
In July 2014, Tbakhi attended and led as well as tweeted support for various anti-Israel demonstrations — co-organized by AMP and Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP)-Chicago.

*This is BDS:*


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## rylah (Nov 19, 2018)

*When BDS-holes forget to put the facade of "human rights" activism, and expose their true agenda:

SJP activist Deanna Silmi demands boycott of JEWS.*




*#BanSJP*


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## rylah (Nov 19, 2018)

Dialogue...


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## rylah (Dec 31, 2018)

*Anti-Zionism is a Dangerous Form of Anti-Semitism*
*The Jewish state is a refuge for any Jew in need, which means that anyone standing against Israel stands against Jews.*

Recent years have seen a dramatic increase in anti-Semitism in Europe. In the United States, too, anti-Semitism is on the rise. In some cases, it comes in the familiar age-old guise of hatred of Jews, plain and simple; but in many others, it is cloaked in the form of the negation of Zionism, or in other words, the denial of Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state.

In her recent New York Times article, “Anti-Zionism Isn’t the Same as Anti-Semitism,” Michelle Goldberg claims that the two are, in fact, very different stances. Using a convoluted argument, based on the historical opposition to Zionism among some Jews, and on the fact that Israel’s policies toward the Palestinians can make it hard for others to identify with the state, she tries to prove that it is possible to be anti-Zionist without necessarily being anti-Semitic. She argues that because Jews around the world have very different interests, which can sometimes clash with those of the State of Israel, then anti-Zionism is merely opposition to the Jewish state, and has nothing to do with one’s attitudes toward Jews per se. This argument is misleading, at best; a less generous analysis is that it willfully ignores the realities of anti-Zionism, and is prepared to leave it to the Jewish state to pay the price.

According to reports produced by various research institutes, the Israeli government, and Jewish organizations in Europe, the number of attacks on Jews is rising constantly, and the sense of personal security felt by Jews in major European countries is on the wane. In the United States, too, anti-Semitism is increasingly apparent. Contemporary European anti-Semitism includes both “traditional” European Jew hatred as well hatred directed at Zionism and the State of Israel, including calls for Israel’s destruction. Thus, at various demonstrations, events, and anti-Semitic incidents, “traditional” expressions of hatred against Jews can be heard alongside the vilification of Zionism and the Jewish state.

The conflation of anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism is also evident, in most cases, among those who are most vocally anti-Israel and anti-Jewish. In Europe, a great many of these are Muslim immigrants who fully identify Israel with the Jews in general, and for whom the goals of the destruction of Israel and the destruction of the Jewish people are indivisible. Others belong to the radical European left, which opposes Israel and Zionism almost as a matter of tradition. On the extreme right in Europe, as well, there are those who lump together the Jewish people and the State of Israel, and call for the Zionist project to be terminated.

But in truth, one needs nothing more than common sense and a basic familiarity with recent history to understand that anti-Zionism is a clear display of anti-Semitism. At the heart of the Zionist undertaking was the establishment of a Jewish state in the Land of Israel. Since this was achieved, the Jewish state has become the strongest and most visible expression of the existence of the Jewish people, and of Jewish existence in general.

Anti-Zionism, in turn, is the demand to erase the Jewish character of the State of Israel. The most immediate practical outcome of this would be that the State of Israel, in its current incarnation, would cease to exist. In the first stage, it would become, as the fiercest critics of Israel hope, “a state of all its citizens,” with no special Jewish component, and with no possibility of maintaining a Jewish majority. Such a state would, in effect, offer the right of return to Palestinian refugees. With the removal of the Jewish majority, one can safely assume, Jews would no longer be able to reside in such a state. The Jewish national home would be destroyed, and the only sure refuge for Jews in the world would be gone. While it is true that the interests of Jews around the world are not identical with those of Israel, it should be remembered that the existence of the Jewish state as a refuge for any Jews in need, wherever they may be, is very much in the interests of every Jew in every country.

Anti-Zionism is a Dangerous Form of Anti-Semitism


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## Mindful (Dec 31, 2018)

It's become quite the thing to deny being an anti Semite by insisting one is merely an anti-Zionist. Not only do people facing criticism for abetting anti-Semitism use this pabulum, but their Jewish defenders on the left do, too.

In these pages, opinion editor Batya Ungar-Sargon recently asserted that one of the “most important questions facing Jews on the Left today is whether there is a difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism.”

The truth is, there is no difference between the two. For anti-Semitism did not stop evolving with the Nazis. Jew-haters everywhere consider Israel to be the Jew of nations, representing all that is evil and must therefore be shunned and eradicated.

The far right gets this — 

Read more: Opinion | Sorry, Liberals: Anti-Zionism Is Anti-Semitic


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## Mindful (Jan 2, 2019)

BDS


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## Mindful (Jan 4, 2019)

*Israel-Hating Dumbasses of the Day*

Our friends over at Sussex Friends of Israel caught some Israel-haters picketing HSBC in central Brighton, despite HSBC’s announcement it has divested from Israeli company Elbit.






More bad news. We can't even spell Brighton.


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## Mindful (Jan 9, 2019)

The following letter appears in the National Education Union (NEU) magazine (hat tip: Natalie S).





Note how the letter writer gleefully writes about the closure of Israeli company Sodastream’s production facilities “the loss of palestinian workers’ jobs notwithstanding”.

Which begs the question: How can they so casually dismiss the loss of income to their beloved palestinians?

Answer: the palestinians are not their beloved. At all. They are solely motivated by hatred of Israel (and I suspect the Jewish people). This letter demonstrates this in stark fashion.

Note also the editor’s response, which reveals the same contempt for palestinian Arabs.



Israellycool


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## Mindful (Jan 10, 2019)

*Bigotry?*
*by Alan M. Dershowitz
*

*Is Rashida Tlaib Guilty of Bigotry?*




To single out only the "Jew among nations," and not the dozens of far more serious violators of human rights is bigotry pure and simple, and those who support BDS only against Israel are guilty of bigotry.


What is unacceptable is discriminatory actions, and nothing can be more discriminatory than singling out an ally with one of the best records of human rights in the world for a boycott, while continuing to do business with the worst human rights offenders in the world.


Many of the same bigots who support BDS against Israel, oppose boycotting Cuba, Iran, China, Russia, Venezuela, Syria, Saudi Arabia and other human rights violators. Legislation designed to end such discriminatory actions would be constitutional, if it did not prohibit advocacy.


No one has accused Tlaib of forgetting what country she represents when she supports the Palestinian cause, even though Palestinian terrorists, acting in the name of "Palestine," have killed numerous Americans. Americans of any religion have the right to support Israel, and most do, without being accused of disloyalty, just as Americans of any religion have the right to support the Palestinian cause. It is both bigoted and hypocritical to apply a different standard to Jews who support Israel than to Muslims who support the Palestinian cause.... If she is the "new face" of the Democratic Party, we Democrats should begin worrying.


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 10, 2019)

Mindful said:


> *Bigotry?*
> *by Alan M. Dershowitz
> *
> 
> ...


False argument.

The Palestinians target *all* countries that occupy Palestine.


----------



## rylah (Jan 14, 2019)

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> > *Bigotry?*
> ...



No they single out only the Jews for having a state,
and none of the Arab governments ruling in the same land.

You don't hear suggestions of boycotting anyone occupying the east bank of the same land, because they don't care as long as Jews are not involved.

It's all in the open, the genocidal slogans against Jews and the calls to arms all documented, from top to bottom, no need to pretend.


----------



## Mindful (Jan 14, 2019)

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> > *Bigotry?*
> ...



Only countries-nation states can be occupied,


----------



## rylah (Jan 14, 2019)

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Mindful said:
> ...



Don't confuse him with facts, according to chief BDS-hole they consider "occupation" to be the mere presence of a Jewish state in any shape or form anywhere between the "river and the sea", or the entire middle east for that matter.

In plain sight:


----------



## Mindful (Jan 14, 2019)

rylah said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Well that's what it's all about really:  Jews.

Despite all the fake posturings  about land, apartheid, Zionism, human rights and all that jazz, the bottom line is 'the Jews".  Nothing more, nothing less. Has been for centuries, and still goes on, in all its shape shifting malevolent justifications.

He can't even be honest about it.


----------



## rylah (Jan 14, 2019)




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## Mindful (Jan 14, 2019)

rylah said:


>



Says it all. 

And this form of rhetoric is tolerated by all "fair and open minded" people.


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## Mindful (Jan 14, 2019)

*Forward goes full Antisemite.*


For a while now, I have documented the Israel-bashing escapades of the Jewish Forward (and its staff). And true, they have set foot in to antisemite territory on occasion (see the banner to this article for example). But I don’t recall seeing something quite as blatantly antisemitic as this piece: 

The 15 Women You’ll Meet When You Date Jews In New York.
It is hard to believe anyone thought this was a good idea.

Here’s a sample (screenshots since I assume they will delete the article).

The Forward Goes Full Antisemite


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## rylah (Jan 15, 2019)

*UCLA - What about the Jewish students?*

Genocidal slogans against Jews
Harassment and threats against ethnic minority 
Open calls to arms and violence

...BDS in action:


----------



## rylah (Jan 15, 2019)




----------



## Mindful (Jan 15, 2019)

Source: jpost

After outrage on social media and from anti-BDS activists, the city of Bonn in the German state of North Rhine-Westphalia deleted on Thursday an advertisement for a pro-BDS event.

The Ruhrbarone news outlet first reported that “On [the] website of the city of Bonn, an event with the activist Shir Hever is advertised with classic antisemitic statements, which is scheduled to take place in late January in the German-Kurdish cultural house.”

Bonn wrote in response that: “We regret the entry very much and apologize for that. The event calendar is not filled by us. Organizers can independently enter appointments in the calendar.”

Ruhbarone’s journalist Stefan Laurin, who is recognized as being an expert in new forms of German antisemitism, listed some of the alleged antisemitic statements from the advertisement.

“Israel has systematically violated international law for more than 70 years, with more or less open support from the US and Europe. Israel’s apartheid and colonial policies [have support from] strong Jewish lobby organizations in the USA.”

Another alleged antisemitic statement says: “Up until now, the most effective weapon of the ‘Israel lobby’ was ‘antisemitism.”’

Hever, who posted a link to the advertisement on his website, is a member of the organization Jewish Voice for a Just Peace in the Middle East, which is a sponsor of the event. Jewish Voice supports the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) campaign targeting Israel.

Anti-BDS activist Malca Goldstein-Wolf, who stopped a German TV airing of pro-BDS singer Roger Waters, has announced a rally on January 24 in front of the German-Kurdish cultural center.

German city removes antisemitic BDS event notice from its website


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## Mindful (Jan 26, 2019)

*Latest Libel: Hump Day Edition*
The BDS movement want everyone to boycott Volvo because Israel seizes camels with Volvo machinery.




Save


According to Who Profits:


Latest Libel: Hump Day Edition


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## Mindful (Feb 4, 2019)

Sussex Friends Of Israel

Almost certain, obviously I can't be 100% sure but I am almost certain that this is not what the BDS and PSC had in mind for their little campaign of… 
See more
Virgin Atlantic to start flights from London to Tel Aviv, Israel in May 2019
www.touristisrael.com



148148


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## rylah (Feb 9, 2019)

Hamas charter says its' goal is genocide of Jews.
In fact they're so obsessed about Jews they mention them 12 times in that document.
Here's a paragraph from the charter:

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."


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## rylah (Feb 9, 2019)

*New grassroots movement or an age- old hatred?*
Anti-Israel Boycott Divestment and Sanctions movement is a repackaging of the Arab anti-Jewish boycotts from the 1920s/1930s and subsequent Arab League boycott, using language of 'social justice' to appeal to Western liberals.


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## rylah (Feb 10, 2019)

*Pro-Palestine Student Says He'll Throw Rocks At Jews | Campus Unmasked*

"I am gonna throw rocks at Jews this summer" and "God will kill the Jews" are just some of the statements made by pro-Palestine students.


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## rylah (Feb 10, 2019)

BDS-holes don't really hide it,
but when exposed for their racism, affiliation with convicted criminals and incitement to murder 
they just play the poor victims...


----------



## rylah (Feb 24, 2019)

*Students at Large German University Condemn BDS as Anti-Semitic*
*The University of Cologne, located in the state North Rhine-Westphalia, has a student body of nearly 49,000.*

The University of Cologne’s student parliament passed a resolution against the Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions campaign targeting the Jewish State because BDS is an antisemitic movement that seeks to abolish Israel.

According to the resolution that was voted on in late October, 2018, “The student bodies of the University of Cologne are fighting the anti-Semitic BDS campaign against the Jewish state of Israel by all available means.” The students wrote BDS groups “should not be offered a platform at the University of Cologne. The student parliament and the AStA are working to prevent BDS propagating events at the University of Cologne.”

AStA stands for The General Students’ Committee, a student representative organization on German universities.
The University of Cologne, located in the state North Rhine-Westphalia, has a student body of nearly 49,000.
The student parliament resolution wrote “AStA is invited to advocate the university for a ban on university-connected events that are related to the BDS, or otherwise attempt to delegitimize the State of Israel.”
The text added. “The student parliament also condemns antisemitism in relation to the state of Israel in any form. It sees itself as being in solidarity with the State of Israel, which also means that its right to existence and self-defense is beyond question.”

In the two-page resolution, the students outlined the expressions of contemporary antisemitism. According to the resolution, “Modern antisemitism is often directed against the state of Israel. There are several attempts to delegitimize the existence of the state of Israel from the fact that the founding of the state has already been ‘unlawful.’ And followed by the statement that Israel is the authoritarian and racist state par excellence, to assertions denigrating Israel as an ‘apartheid state.’”
The students wrote. “Israel is the only functioning democracy in the Middle East,” adding “Also disregarded by such self-styled ‘critics’ [of Israel] is that Israel is the only state whose existence is openly threatened by threats of annihilation by other countries in the Middle East.”
The Cologne students noted, “When it comes to Israel, double standards are often on the agenda. In many political, social and especially media contexts, the state of Israel is often judged or treated differently than other states.”

Read More: Jerusalem Post


----------



## rylah (Feb 24, 2019)




----------



## rylah (Feb 24, 2019)




----------



## RoccoR (Feb 24, 2019)

RE:  Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
⁜→  rylah, et al,

Yes, this is a real connection → from hard intelligence.



rylah said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

But, just as a decade ago when the pro-Arab Palestinians jumped up and down --- denying an association with the Iranian Revolutionary Guard - Qods Force (IRGC-QF), today it is common knowledge that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) maintain those links for both underground financing and the trafficking of weapons, → so it is that today → with the attraction that Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) has with White Supremacists and anti-Semitism.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah (Feb 25, 2019)

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
> ⁜→  rylah, et al,
> 
> Yes, this is a real connection → from hard intelligence.
> ...



"Attraction" and mobilization of white supremacists by BDS is not the main issue.
One cannot and should not regulate personal opinions, no matter how abhorrent.
But one can, and must ban incitement to violence and hate crime, to provide a healthy environment for education.

The greater danger is when universities provide stage to organizations like the KKK and BDS,
paired with constant assaults and incitement on campus, not rarely backed faculty, aggravates a cycle if violence to a scope that campus security is incapable of appropriately addressing.

I'm sorry to press on open wounds, but it seems schools in the US have become convenient platforms for hate and targets for periodic massacres even by students themselves. From here it looks like a real epidemic, however the answer seems to be banning weapons, rather than those who openly incite to crime inside and under the protection of schools themselves

Q.Is there a line that must be crossed, a specific number, another massacre, 
for the schools to become safe again?


----------



## rylah (Dec 11, 2019)

*Trump to sign order targeting campus anti-Semitism
*
US President Donald Trump plans to sign an executive order on Wednesday targeting what he sees as anti-Semitism on college campuses by threatening to withhold federal money from educational institutions that fail to combat discrimination, three administration officials told _The New York Times_ on Tuesday.

The order will effectively interpret Judaism as a nationality, not just a religion, to trigger a federal law penalizing colleges and universities deemed to be shirking their responsibility to foster an open climate for minority students, said the officials who spoke on condition of anonymity.

In signing the order, Trump will use his executive power to take action where Congress has not, essentially replicating bipartisan legislation that has stalled on Capitol Hill for years.

Source: *Arutz Sheva*


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 11, 2019)

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
> ⁜→  rylah, et al,
> 
> Yes, this is a real connection → from hard intelligence.
> ...





RoccoR said:


> with the attraction that Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) has with White Supremacists and anti-Semitism.


That white supremacist Christians would form an alliance with brown Muslims does not make any sense. It looks more like they are riding the coat tails of BDS then BDS gets busted for Antisemitism.


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## Mindful (Dec 11, 2019)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > RE:  Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
> ...



Have you convinced anyone yet, of your points of view?


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## toomuchtime_ (Dec 11, 2019)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > RE:  Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
> ...


Yes.






GRAND MUFTI:
The Grand Mufti began by thanking the Fuhrer for the great honor he had bestowed by receiving him. He wished to seize the opportunity to convey to the Fuhrer of the Greater German Reich, admired by the entire Arab world, his thanks of the sympathy which he had always shown for the Arab and especially the Palestinian cause, and to which he had given clear expression in his public speeches.

The Arab countries were firmly convinced that Germany would win the war and that the Arab cause would then prosper. The Arabs were Germany’s natural friends because they had the same enemies as had Germany, namely the English, the Jews and the Communists. Therefore they were prepared to cooperate with Germany with all their hearts and stood ready to participate in the war, not only negatively by the commission of acts of sabotage and the instigation of revolutions, but also positively by the formation of an Arab Legion.

Full official record: What the mufti said to Hitler


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 11, 2019)

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


You never notice when things don't make sense.


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## Mindful (Dec 11, 2019)

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Is that all you've got? Because you have nothing else?


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## Natural Citizen (Dec 11, 2019)

Gosh. Does Act.IL have you folks working overtime on your 'missions' this week? Seems like it. Anyone win a cool prize yet?


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## toastman (Dec 12, 2019)

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



In the time that I've been posting here, I have never once seen you win an argument.


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## rylah (Dec 12, 2019)

Nothing new about the BDS.
And has nothing to do with criticizing the state in any objective manner. 
They called for boycott of Jews even before re-constitution of Israel.


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## Hollie (Dec 12, 2019)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > RE:  Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
> ...



Ah, "Evil White People".

I'm guessing that will now be a part of your one-liner collection?


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## rylah (Dec 12, 2019)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...








"When bigots on both extremes unite over their Jew hatred,
You know that there's a chance for a brighter future ..."

kinda thinking.


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## rylah (Dec 12, 2019)

*Left Wing Antisemitism Keeps Growing*

--A rise in left-wing antisemitism is occurring even in places where intolerance is least expected, including on college campuses, within African-American rights groups, and in LGBT pride marches.

Yet when the Palestinian government beats up LGBTQ protester and bans criminalizes their activity, it's crickets, not even a mention from anyone on the inter-sectional movement in America. Not to mention that the same Palestinian pro-LGBTQ organization eventually was moved to Israel.

BDS indoctrinates using a wide range of tools to appeal to various public and their prejudice, to normalize their anti-Jewish sentiment in politics and education.


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## Mindful (Dec 17, 2019)

Spooning Corbyn. He should just fork off. lol.


Jeremy Corbyn Undone By Golda Meir's Spoon


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