# California suffering through SEVERE climate change



## Dot Com (Feb 2, 2014)

California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov


> The most populated state in the country is facing what may be its worst drought in a century of record-keeping. On January 20, the governor of California declared a state of emergency, urging everyone to begin conserving water. Water levels in all but a few reservoirs in the state are less than 50% of capacity, mountains are nearly bare of snow except at the highest elevations, and the fire risk is extreme.  In Nevada, the situation is much the same.



Wonder why that could be


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## HelenaHandbag (Feb 2, 2014)

Could it be because the planet's environment and climates have never ever been homogenous?


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## Katzndogz (Feb 2, 2014)

It's because the Pacific is too cold.  If it would warm up a bit, we'd have an El Nino and lots of storms.   This isn't climate change, this is part of the natural climate.


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## Spiderman (Feb 2, 2014)

Droughts happened before droughts will happen again


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## Katzndogz (Feb 2, 2014)

We had a terrible drought a few years ago.  It was so bad, there was some talk of building desalinization plants along the ocean.  Then it rained and the plan was scrapped, as if we would never again have another drought.  

The climate is the same.  It is just fine as it is.  We have too many people living in California so droughts have a much more severe effect than it did say in the 50s or even 60s.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Feb 2, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> 
> 
> > The most populated state in the country is facing what may be its worst drought in a century of record-keeping. On January 20, the governor of California declared a state of emergency, urging everyone to begin conserving water. Water levels in all but a few reservoirs in the state are less than 50% of capacity, mountains are nearly bare of snow except at the highest elevations, and the fire risk is extreme.  In Nevada, the situation is much the same.
> ...



Gee, I don't know, maybe the same reason some years we get slammed with tornadoes and hurricanes and other years it's fairly quiet. Maybe why some years there are severe snow storms and some years it's mild.  Maybe why some years we have unusual heat waves and then other years we wonder when summer is coming.

Maybe for the same reason there have been massive droughts in parts of the world throughout human history and some years there has been massive flooding.


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## Yurt (Feb 2, 2014)

we had one of the wettest years a couple of years ago


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## driveby (Feb 2, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> 
> 
> > The most populated state in the country is facing what may be its worst drought in a century of record-keeping. On January 20, the governor of California declared a state of emergency, urging everyone to begin conserving water. Water levels in all but a few reservoirs in the state are less than 50% of capacity, mountains are nearly bare of snow except at the highest elevations, and the fire risk is extreme.  In Nevada, the situation is much the same.
> ...



Climate change, the artist formerly known as global warming......


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## whitehall (Feb 2, 2014)

In case nobody noticed the East Coast was in a drought for most of the 90's and now there is a surplus of rain. Do the warmers have enough sense to understand that climate fluctuations have occurred since the freaking dinosaurs roamed Manhattan? We didn't freaking do it and we should not have to pay reparations to some flea bit country in Africa because of our decadence. Blame that nuclear reactor in the sky if you need to vent your hatred.


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## Moonglow (Feb 2, 2014)

This is the worst drought since the late 1970's when I was in california, there was also a drought of jobs then also


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## LTCArmyRet (Feb 2, 2014)

sounds somewhat like "chicken little" syndrome.


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## Katzndogz (Feb 2, 2014)

The idea that individual action can control the climate, or storms, or rainfall, or any natural occurrence is something that one would expect from a savage culture.   Something close to being prehistoric.   Maybe we should sacrifice a few virgins to the rain god.


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## orogenicman (Feb 2, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> The idea that individual action can control the climate, or storms, or rainfall, or any natural occurrence is something that one would expect from a savage culture. Something close to being prehistoric. Maybe we should sacrifice a few virgins to the rain god.



I know of one individual, who, by his actions, created a dump site that is known as one of the largest superfund sites in the U.S.  So yes, one individual can have a huge impact on the environment.


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## skookerasbil (Feb 2, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> 
> 
> > The most populated state in the country is facing what may be its worst drought in a century of record-keeping. On January 20, the governor of California declared a state of emergency, urging everyone to begin conserving water. Water levels in all but a few reservoirs in the state are less than 50% of capacity, mountains are nearly bare of snow except at the highest elevations, and the fire risk is extreme.  In Nevada, the situation is much the same.
> ...






meh



Another bomb thrower thread by a AGW mental case.



Drought this time.......and people aren't that stoopid. If we take a quick peek at a couple of decades in the 20th century, we see *VERY CLEARLY* that drought happens all the fucking time.......the AGW k00ks want the observer in the present at all times, taking any natural event at any given time and making it into something associated with climate change.

As we can see here.......you have to have a plate in  your head to become hysterical like this hyper-wing nut.









For California, 1931, 1934, 1939, 1956, 1959 and 1966 we horrible years for Califonia in terms of drought. Other years? Not so much!! Like any other states.......assholes!!!










Indeed......severe drought has been going on forever all over the world.......long before Ford started rolling SUV's off the assembly line!!!!


Chronology of Extreme Weather


 These AGW assholes are phonies and will present ANYTHING as part of global warming.


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## Moonglow (Feb 2, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> The idea that individual action can control the climate, or storms, or rainfall, or any natural occurrence is something that one would expect from a savage culture.   Something close to being prehistoric.   Maybe we should sacrifice a few virgins to the rain god.



Is that why people pray to God for rain? Or that religious people believe that God is punishing them for their sins by droughts, floods or tornadoes?
My ecclesiastical theologian baptist Grandmother always told me it is God's will what happens on the Earth and in Heaven.


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## HelenaHandbag (Feb 2, 2014)

orogenicman said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > The idea that individual action can control the climate, or storms, or rainfall, or any natural occurrence is something that one would expect from a savage culture. Something close to being prehistoric. Maybe we should sacrifice a few virgins to the rain god.
> ...


True.

One man, George Norris, was mostly responsible for creating the TVA. One of the biggest environmental catastrophes in American history.


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## Dot Com (Feb 2, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> It's because the Pacific is too cold.  If it would warm up a bit, we'd have an El Nino and lots of storms.   This isn't climate change, *this is part of the natural climate.*



this is part of the ONCE EVERY 100+ YEARS natural climate.


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## Dot Com (Feb 2, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> The idea that individual action can control the climate, or storms, or rainfall, or any natural occurrence is something that one would expect from a savage culture.   Something close to being prehistoric.   Maybe we should sacrifice a few virgins to the rain god.



Yeah, just because we have billions of vehicles, most not regulated like in this great nation, belching billions of tons of GHG's into our closed system makes no diff at all


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## Quantum Windbag (Feb 2, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> 
> 
> > The most populated state in the country is facing what may be its worst drought in a century of record-keeping. On January 20, the governor of California declared a state of emergency, urging everyone to begin conserving water. Water levels in all but a few reservoirs in the state are less than 50% of capacity, mountains are nearly bare of snow except at the highest elevations, and the fire risk is extreme.  In Nevada, the situation is much the same.
> ...



Do you alarmists ever get tired of blaming normal weather patterns on Bush?



> California's current drought is being billed as the driest period in  the state's recorded rainfall history. But scientists who study the  West's long-term climate patterns say the state has been parched for  much longer stretches before that 163-year historical period began.And they worry that the "megadroughts" typical of California's earlier history could come again.
> Through  studies of tree rings, sediment and other natural evidence, researchers  have documented multiple droughts in California that lasted 10 or 20  years in a row during the past 1,000 years  compared to the mere  three-year duration of the current dry spell. The two most severe  megadroughts make the Dust Bowl of the 1930s look tame: a 240-year-long  drought that started in 850 and, 50 years after the conclusion of that  one, another that stretched at least 180 years.
> "We continue to  run California as if the longest drought we are ever going to encounter  is about seven years," said Scott Stine, a professor of geography and  environmental studies at Cal State East Bay. "We're living in a dream  world."



Scientists: Past California droughts have lasted 200 years


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## polarbear (Feb 2, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> 
> 
> > The most populated state in the country is facing what may be its worst drought in a century of record-keeping. On January 20, the governor of California declared a state of emergency, urging everyone to begin conserving water. Water levels in all but a few reservoirs in the state are less than 50% of capacity, mountains are nearly bare of snow except at the highest elevations, and the fire risk is extreme.  In Nevada, the situation is much the same.
> ...



If that was caused by CO2 then California should have a lot more of it than the other states.
Do they?


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 2, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> 
> 
> > The most populated state in the country is facing what may be its worst drought in a century of record-keeping. On January 20, the governor of California declared a state of emergency, urging everyone to begin conserving water. Water levels in all but a few reservoirs in the state are less than 50% of capacity, mountains are nearly bare of snow except at the highest elevations, and the fire risk is extreme.  In Nevada, the situation is much the same.
> ...



So the drought in the middle of the Country in the 30's was caused by man made global warming? Ohh wait you changed it to man made global climate change.


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## SwimExpert (Feb 2, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> Yeah, just because we have billions of vehicles


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## Katzndogz (Feb 2, 2014)

Emission regulation on vehicles has even gotten rid of our old smog problem.  Denver has worse smog than Los Angeles.


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## Dot Com (Feb 2, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> Emission regulation on vehicles has even gotten rid of our old smog problem.  Denver has worse smog than Los Angeles.



because California has/had great statesmen like Henry Waxman (D-CA)


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## joshuah (Feb 2, 2014)

mercurynews.com/science/ci_24993601/california-drought-past-dry-periods-have-lasted-more

If you follow this link (I can't post links just yet) you will find a graphic that illustrates that this current drought that is the worst in 150+ years is a little blip that is far less intense than many megadroughts that have occurred in the last 1000 years. In fact if you don't cherry-pick the current drought it almost looks like drought in California is more normal than non-drought and if anything the current drought is a return to more normal conditions. Either way it's the farthest thing from evidence of SEVERE climate change.

EDIT: here ya go


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## Mr. H. (Feb 2, 2014)

Why do we waste water by irrigating farmland? How many hundreds of millions of metric tons of grains do we export each year? 

Why? To fatten the pockets of the agriculture industry?

Agriculture drains aquifers, pollutes fresh water tables, fouls the air and waterways... yet the government pays them billions to do so. 

Now that's fucked up.


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## Gracie (Feb 2, 2014)

Been pouring down rain here on the central coast ALL DAY. Love it. I don't have to water.


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## Gracie (Feb 2, 2014)

Feb is our rainy month anyway. We are not disappointed or surprised. BRING IT, RAIN! I sit out there. It's kinda cold but I don't give a damn. I love rain.


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## S.J. (Feb 2, 2014)

If it's hot, it's global warming.  If it's cold, it's climate change.  And in both cases, it's always Bush's fault.


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## tinydancer (Feb 2, 2014)

Well well, history is repeating itself.

* Researchers have documented multiple droughts in California that lasted 10 or 20 years in a row during the past 1,000 years.

SAN JOSE, Calif.  California's current drought is being billed as the driest period in the state's recorded rainfall history. But scientists who study the West's long-term climate patterns say the state has been parched for much longer stretches before that 163-year historical period began.

And they worry that the "megadroughts" typical of California's earlier history could come again.

Through studies of tree rings, sediment and other natural evidence, researchers have documented multiple droughts in California that lasted 10 or 20 years in a row during the past 1,000 years  compared to the mere three-year duration of the current dry spell. 

The two most severe megadroughts make the Dust Bowl of the 1930s look tame: a 240-year-long drought that started in 850 and, 50 years after the conclusion of that one, another that stretched at least 180 years.

"We continue to run California as if the longest drought we are ever going to encounter is about seven years," said Scott Stine, a professor of geography and environmental studies at Cal State East Bay. "We're living in a dream world."*

Scientists: Past California droughts have lasted 200 years


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## Katzndogz (Feb 2, 2014)

Gracie said:


> Been pouring down rain here on the central coast ALL DAY. Love it. I don't have to water.



It is raining in LA right  not.  Not exactly a drought buster rain though.  Five years ago we were tol the state was entering a period of low rainfall.  This should not have come as a surprise.


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## S.J. (Feb 2, 2014)

It never rains in California, but girl don't they warn ya?  It pours.  Man, it pours.


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## westwall (Feb 2, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> 
> 
> > The most populated state in the country is facing what may be its worst drought in a century of record-keeping. On January 20, the governor of California declared a state of emergency, urging everyone to begin conserving water. Water levels in all but a few reservoirs in the state are less than 50% of capacity, mountains are nearly bare of snow except at the highest elevations, and the fire risk is extreme.  In Nevada, the situation is much the same.
> ...








Worst drought on record?  What about that drought that lasted for over 200 years?  They forget about that one

*
Scientists: Past California droughts have lasted 200 years*



Scientists: Past California droughts have lasted 200 years


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## Dot Com (Feb 2, 2014)

why the deflections deniers?  WHY?!!!


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Feb 2, 2014)

orogenicman said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > The idea that individual action can control the climate, or storms, or rainfall, or any natural occurrence is something that one would expect from a savage culture. Something close to being prehistoric. Maybe we should sacrifice a few virgins to the rain god.
> ...



Except that's not what she denied, now, is it?


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Feb 2, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> why the deflections deniers?  WHY?!!!



Because you and the other global warming cult kooks are liars.

Dishonest and dishonorable.


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## westwall (Feb 2, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> why the deflections deniers?  WHY?!!!







What deflection?  I posted a story which shows your OP to be horsecrap.


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## Quantum Windbag (Feb 2, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > Emission regulation on vehicles has even gotten rid of our old smog problem.  Denver has worse smog than Los Angeles.
> ...



Really?

Tell me something, what did the congesscritter do when it was California's laws, written and passed by the state legislature, that made the big difference?


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## Political Junky (Feb 3, 2014)

US teens lag in global education rankings as Asian countries rise to the top - U.S. News

Wonder why.


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## jon_berzerk (Feb 3, 2014)

westwall said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> ...



the drought that started in 850 ad lasted 240 years 

50 years later another drought lasted 163 years 

all of this long before supposed man made global warming


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## Roguewave (Feb 3, 2014)

A basic premise of AGW theory is that increased atmospheric CO2 will retain more heat, which in turn will evaporate more H2O into the atmosphere, which will then itself retain even more heat, and on & on. Therefore, the theory requires more moisture, not less in AGW scenarios. Droughts are contrary to the theory as a general result. The people in Europe who have been suffering widespread floods should be the ones crowing about green house gas effects they attribute to the unproven theory.


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## HelenaHandbag (Feb 3, 2014)

Political Junky said:


> US teens lag in global education rankings as Asian countries rise to the top - U.S. News
> 
> Wonder why.


Quite probably because liberals have put themselves in charge of education.

They don't know that a quadratic equation is, but they know how to nag their parents about global warming.


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## Rozman (Feb 3, 2014)

Are they taking into account the fact that California turned the water off that fed a bunch of farms
and sent those families that used to feed the nation to food banks to survive.

All because of a little fish.


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## Quantum Windbag (Feb 3, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> why the deflections deniers?  WHY?!!!



You made a claim, multiple people used science to prove it wrong, and we are all deniers because we use science to reach a conclusion you feel is wrong.


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## Quantum Windbag (Feb 3, 2014)

Political Junky said:


> US teens lag in global education rankings as Asian countries rise to the top - U.S. News
> 
> Wonder why.



Because you think the federal government does a better job than teachers.


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## Two Thumbs (Feb 3, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> 
> 
> > The most populated state in the country is facing what may be its worst drought in a century of record-keeping. On January 20, the governor of California declared a state of emergency, urging everyone to begin conserving water. Water levels in all but a few reservoirs in the state are less than 50% of capacity, mountains are nearly bare of snow except at the highest elevations, and the fire risk is extreme.  In Nevada, the situation is much the same.
> ...



It's b/c they (liberals) chose human suffering to save a minnow.

but hey, global warming.

warmist icebreaker gets stuck in the ice twice...


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## Dot Com (Feb 3, 2014)

climate change is no joke people!



> Severe California Drought Draining Finances
> Now that California&#8217;s Water Board is turning off the tap to certain distributors, and reservoirs are running dry, the cost of water is slated to rise and the impact on the state&#8217;s harvest could be devastating to many farmers.


Severe California Drought Draining Finances - Video on NBCNews.com


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## HereWeGoAgain (Feb 3, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> climate change is no joke people!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



  Yeah it is...and so are you.
Every time one of you alarmist predictions dont come true,you just change the definition.
  Why would anyone take you seriously?


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## Katzndogz (Feb 4, 2014)

It is not climate change if a region normally subjected to periodic droughts has a drought.


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## westwall (Feb 4, 2014)

Political Junky said:


> US teens lag in global education rankings as Asian countries rise to the top - U.S. News
> 
> Wonder why.








Because collectivists want dumb citizens so they can continually be elected.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Feb 4, 2014)

westwall said:


> Political Junky said:
> 
> 
> > US teens lag in global education rankings as Asian countries rise to the top - U.S. News
> ...



  Yep...and adding twenty million illegals who dont speak english just adds to the stupid.
It's just in a lump sum. Kinda like going to Costco for your stupid.


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## joshuah (Feb 5, 2014)

Don't look now but there's a big rain coming to Northern California.


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## Dot Com (Feb 11, 2014)

California drought: 17 communities could run out of water within 60 to 120 days, state says - San Jose Mercury News


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## Samson (Feb 11, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> 
> 
> > The most populated state in the country is facing what may be its worst drought in a century of record-keeping. On January 20, the governor of California declared a state of emergency, urging everyone to begin conserving water. Water levels in all but a few reservoirs in the state are less than 50% of capacity, mountains are nearly bare of snow except at the highest elevations, and the fire risk is extreme.  In Nevada, the situation is much the same.
> ...





Wild Guess: 

California and Nevada are essentially deserts with too many people living in them.


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## Sarah G (Feb 11, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> We had a terrible drought a few years ago.  It was so bad, there was some talk of building desalinization plants along the ocean.  Then it rained and the plan was scrapped, as if we would never again have another drought.
> 
> The climate is the same.  It is just fine as it is.  We have too many people living in California so droughts have a much more severe effect than it did say in the 50s or even 60s.



I think about desalinization plants out there everytime I hear you're having droughts.  It's pretty selfish on my part, I don't want the rest of the country coming for water from the Great Lakes.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Feb 11, 2014)

Sarah G said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > We had a terrible drought a few years ago.  It was so bad, there was some talk of building desalinization plants along the ocean.  Then it rained and the plan was scrapped, as if we would never again have another drought.
> ...



I don't think you're being selfish at all.  They should move forward with building desalination plants.  It's the sensible thing to do.  I get worried about us here in Las Vegas with how Lake Meade keeps getting lower and lower every year.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Feb 11, 2014)

Political Junky said:


> US teens lag in global education rankings as Asian countries rise to the top - U.S. News
> 
> Wonder why.



I don't.  People like you control the public education system.  That's why.


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## Gracie (Feb 11, 2014)

Been raining here for the past week. We need more. But...the sun is out again, this week it will go back to being in the high 60's and high 70's. However, Feb is our wettest month and I want more of it. MORE. We need it. Badly.


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## Harry Dresden (Feb 11, 2014)

i have been here since the 60's.....California has had quite a few droughts.....its like Sam Kinison yelled......"You live in a fucking Desert!!".....you live out here droughts and hot weather are a part of life....


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## flacaltenn (Feb 11, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> 
> 
> > The most populated state in the country is facing what may be its worst drought in a century of record-keeping. On January 20, the governor of California declared a state of emergency, urging everyone to begin conserving water. Water levels in all but a few reservoirs in the state are less than 50% of capacity, mountains are nearly bare of snow except at the highest elevations, and the fire risk is extreme.  In Nevada, the situation is much the same.
> ...



Everyone knows why.. It's because Jerry Brown didn't get the memo about sacrificing a virgin tranny on top of Mt. Tamalpais every 1st Tuesday of the month. He has now delegated that task to a bipartisian panel who will supply sufficient virgin trannies to resolve the disaster.. 

At least -- that's the view of the Warmer Church of Panicked Villagers. 

For the rest of us --- this drought was caused by a natural weather event where a blocking and persistent High Pressure dome sat it's ass over the SouthWest and beat the crap out of any approaching precipt.

Solve your problem BullWinkle??  Do you need the cartoon version? Which way do High Pressure system rotate? Do you understand ANYTHING about how your world works?


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## flacaltenn (Feb 11, 2014)

So far the Tranny Sacrifice Panel has made 3 important decisions.. 

1) In the tradition of 60s radical public theatre -- the sacrifices will NOT be televised.. However invitations will be issued to the first 100 Volt buyers to register each month.







2) A priority draft of virgin trannies will be made in order of their carbon footprints.
With SUV driving trannies going to the top of list.. 






3) Due to protests that not enough virgin trannies will be selected from northernmost reaches of California, the Panel has recommended that several dozen virgin trannies from Burbank/Hollywood will be relocated free of charge to Eureka.


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## Samson (Feb 11, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> ...



So IOW, Its Bush's Fault?


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## Dot Com (Feb 11, 2014)

Sarah G said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > We had a terrible drought a few years ago.  It was so bad, there was some talk of building desalinization plants along the ocean.  Then it rained and the plan was scrapped, as if we would never again have another drought.
> ...



plus diverting the once mighty Colorado river so that its now just a trickle.


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## flacaltenn (Feb 11, 2014)

+1 for Sarah and DTazMBro for bringing up a grand idea.. I'd vote for them..  
Let's see.. If I still lived in Cali --- which would I rather have? 
A $400Bill speedy choo-choo from nowhere to Stockton? Or a system of desalinization plants run by renewables?  (Here -- renewables used OFF-GRID are ideal to produce water even with service interruptions)

If there are still thinking voters in that state -- it ought to be a landslide Initiative item..


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## westwall (Feb 11, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> ...


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## jon_berzerk (Feb 12, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> 
> 
> > The most populated state in the country is facing what may be its worst drought in a century of record-keeping. On January 20, the governor of California declared a state of emergency, urging everyone to begin conserving water. Water levels in all but a few reservoirs in the state are less than 50% of capacity, mountains are nearly bare of snow except at the highest elevations, and the fire risk is extreme.  In Nevada, the situation is much the same.
> ...



it does not help matters when the state 

tears down (4) four reservoirs that used to retain runoff and provide electricity 

this dry spell is nothing compared to the 250 year drought in 850 AD 

or the one that occurred 50 years after that one that lasted a 163 years 

both  long before the threat of the fabricated man made global warming


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## jon_berzerk (Feb 12, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> The idea that individual action can control the climate, or storms, or rainfall, or any natural occurrence is something that one would expect from a savage culture.   Something close to being prehistoric.   Maybe we should sacrifice a few virgins to the rain god.



*The idea that individual action can control the climate, or storms, or rainfall, or any natural occurrence*

we can 

we call it shelter 

heating and air conditioning 

matter of fact i have my environment set at 72 degrees and  35 percent humidity


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## SSDD (Feb 12, 2014)

Did you know that there was a time when climate scientists told the truth about the climate?


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## skookerasbil (Feb 12, 2014)

This thread is such a total crock of shit and typical bomb throwing by the far left k00ks who have no other option because they are losing.

Extreme weather patterns/events been happening for time and eternity.......the AGW k00ks don't want people knowing that though........

This link pwns them every time >>>>


Chronology of Extreme Weather


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## flacaltenn (Feb 12, 2014)

SSDD said:


> Did you know that there was a time when climate scientists told the truth about the climate?



nawww.. That must ANOTHER James Hansen.. Where did they say that "science brief" came from?


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## Dot Com (Feb 12, 2014)

January precipitation deficits keep California drought outlook grim | NOAA Climate.gov


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## westwall (Feb 12, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> January precipitation deficits keep California drought outlook grim | NOAA Climate.gov







And?


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## flacaltenn (Feb 12, 2014)

westwall said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > January precipitation deficits keep California drought outlook grim | NOAA Climate.gov
> ...



I was gonna ask the exact same question.. But I LIKE Dotty.. Very consistent in the panic and fear department. It gives him courage to know that the drought in California is caused by people voting the wrong way.. I like him because he really cares about the world he doesn't understand.


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## SwimExpert (Feb 12, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> January precipitation deficits keep California drought outlook grim | NOAA Climate.gov



You're such an ignoramous, you don't know the first thing about climate sciences.  The world is currently in the grip of severe man made global warming.  The more CO2 that goes into the atmosphere, the more the atmosphere retains heat via the greenhouse effect.  This in turn leads to the oceans getting warmer and warmer, which causes significantly increased precipitation.  You deniers *just wish* California was in a drought so you could continue to spread your ignorant lies and misinformation.  But the smart people know it's just not possible.  Global warming is here to stay!


----------



## Abraham3 (Feb 12, 2014)

What prompted that Mr Expert?


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 12, 2014)

Abraham3 said:


> What prompted that Mr Expert?



yeah? Ad hominem's and no sourcing of his assertions?


----------



## flacaltenn (Feb 12, 2014)

Abraham3 said:


> What prompted that Mr Expert?



We've decided to pick new teams.. SwimGuy got drafted in the 1st round..


----------



## IlarMeilyr (Feb 12, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> 
> 
> > The most populated state in the country is facing what may be its worst drought in a century of record-keeping. On January 20, the governor of California declared a state of emergency, urging everyone to begin conserving water. Water levels in all but a few reservoirs in the state are less than 50% of capacity, mountains are nearly bare of snow except at the highest elevations, and the fire risk is extreme.  In Nevada, the situation is much the same.
> ...



Wrong.

California is suffering through a drought.  The only things humans are responsible for is the water use (and waste) policies of the liberal loons that "run" (pronounced "ruin") California.

In related news, it often gets warmer in spring and summer and cooler (or cold) in fall and winter.  

This just in:  The bright yellow hot shiny orb in the sky has lots to do with global climate and climatic variation.

Additional atmospheric CO2 from all of human history contributes exactly diddly dick to climate change.

Thank you.  Good evening.


----------



## SSDD (Feb 13, 2014)

Roguewave said:


> A basic premise of AGW theory is that increased atmospheric CO2 will retain more heat, which in turn will evaporate more H2O into the atmosphere, which will then itself retain even more heat, and on & on. Therefore, the theory requires more moisture, not less in AGW scenarios. Droughts are contrary to the theory as a general result. The people in Europe who have been suffering widespread floods should be the ones crowing about green house gas effects they attribute to the unproven theory.



Get with the program.  CO2 is responsible for everything from flooding, to drought, to how effectively you brush your teeth.


----------



## SwimExpert (Feb 13, 2014)

I _have_ been doing a better job of brushing my teeth lately.  Maybe the CO2 is getting to my brain.


----------



## SSDD (Feb 13, 2014)

SwimExpert said:


> I _have_ been doing a better job of brushing my teeth lately.  Maybe the CO2 is getting to my brain.



CO2 causes more/less cavities and gum disease.


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 13, 2014)

denier trolls will troll.


----------



## editec (Feb 13, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> denier trolls will troll.



No, they won't!


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 14, 2014)

FRESNO, Calif.: President Obama visits California's drought region - Business Breaking News - MiamiHerald.com


----------



## flacaltenn (Feb 14, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> FRESNO, Calif.: President Obama visits California's drought region - Business Breaking News - MiamiHerald.com




Brain-Dead partisian politics -- creating a nation of beggars and whiners.. From your "good news" --- 



> The drought has caused Democrats and Republicans in Congress to propose dueling emergency bills. Led by Republican Rep. Devin Nunes, the House passed one that would free up water for farmers by rolling back environmental protections and stop the restoration of a dried-up stretch of the San Joaquin River that once had salmon runs.
> 
> Democratic Sens. Dianne Feinstein and Barbara Boxer proposed their own version that pours $300 million into drought-relief projects without changing environmental laws. The bill would allow more flexibility to move water from the Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta to farms in the south and speed up environmental reviews of water projects.
> 
> Read more here: FRESNO, Calif.: President Obama visits California's drought region - Business Breaking News - MiamiHerald.com



All about the farmers.. NOTHING about desalinization or crop priorities. They are still growing RICE for cripes sakes in the Sacramento delta. And COTTON in the middle of the central valley.

LA needs to invest HEAVILY in desalinization. And stop STEALING water from the north.
And we need politicians with a WIDER more EQUITABLE view of resource issues like this one.


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 14, 2014)

Obama: Entire U.S. concerned about Calif. drought


----------



## Samson (Feb 15, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> Obama: Entire U.S. concerned about Calif. drought



If Obama said it, then it must be true.



What a fuckin' tool you are.



> The president also was announcing that the budget he'll send to Congress next month will include $1 billion for a proposed "climate resilience fund" to invest in research and pay for new technologies to help communities deal with the impact of climate change



Translation: Pork for UCLA studies designed to conclude that communities suffering draught need to waste less water.


----------



## percysunshine (Feb 15, 2014)

"Environmental special interests managed to dismantle the system by diverting water meant for farms to pet projects, such as saving delta smelt, a baitfish. That move forced the flushing of 3 million acre-feet of water originally slated for the Central Valley into the ocean over the past five years."

California's Drought Isn't Due To Global Warming, But Politics - Investors.com



Shameless liar. There are no other explanations.

.


----------



## jon_berzerk (Feb 15, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> Obama: Entire U.S. concerned about Calif. drought



hope he told them 

that if they had any brains they would stop 

tearing down their   water reservoirs

and letting their water run off into the ocean


----------



## Old Rocks (Feb 16, 2014)

jon_berzerk said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > Obama: Entire U.S. concerned about Calif. drought
> ...



Link to articles about them tearing down water reservoirs?


----------



## Old Rocks (Feb 16, 2014)

percysunshine said:


> "Environmental special interests managed to dismantle the system by diverting water meant for farms to pet projects, such as saving delta smelt, a baitfish. That move forced the flushing of 3 million acre-feet of water originally slated for the Central Valley into the ocean over the past five years."
> 
> California's Drought Isn't Due To Global Warming, But Politics - Investors.com
> 
> ...



Shameless liar is what you are. That smelt is what the salmon feed on. Lose them, lose the salmon. Simple fact, they are trying to grow major crops in an area that is known for periodic droughts. When the droughts occur, much of the acreage is going to have to be taken out of production. The present cost of desalinization is far too high to use for agriculteral water.


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 16, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...



yep, he's prolly got it confused, for partisan reasons, w/ the salmon runs in the NW that have had dams removed. Some really old that were constructed w/o regard to salmon conservation which is a huge $$$ business in this great nation.


----------



## tinydancer (Feb 16, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> > "Environmental special interests managed to dismantle the system by diverting water meant for farms to pet projects, such as saving delta smelt, a baitfish. That move forced the flushing of 3 million acre-feet of water originally slated for the Central Valley into the ocean over the past five years."
> ...



If you lose smelt, they'll eat something else. 

Salmon are opportunistic feeders. Their diet reflects not only their location but at what stage of development they are at.

My husband and I are avid fishermen. Hence I'm really good at bait aka food for the fish you are trying to catch. 

Oh and dear hubby is a graduate of University of Toronto. Biology. I live with a science guy. 

Here's a fish food 101 link. Salmon will even eat smaller salmon. Marine life survives as it does because of it's adaptability to various diets. Of course there are some exceptions but for the most part that mantra holds true. 

*January 2005
Q. What do salmon eat?

A. What a salmon eats depends on age, species, and location. When salmon are young and still in freshwater they eat tiny zooplankton and adult invertebrates. However, this varies among species.

 For instance, young coho salmon typically feed during the day and prefer aquatic insects at the surface of a stream, such as, mayflies, caddis flies, and stoneflies. 

The young chinook salmon prefers plankton off the river floor, as well as, terrestrial insects and small crustaceans.

 Another food source for a young salmon is found on overhanging riparian plants. Larvae and insects feeding on this vegetation often fall into the stream adding to a salmon&#8217;s diet.
As a salmon matures and eventually leaves the freshwater for the ocean, their diet may change.

 While chum and sockeye salmon prefer to continue eating zooplankton and occasionally other small adult fish, other species begin to eat larger fish and aquatic insects. This includes shrimp, surf smelt, sand lance, crab, herring, amphipods, and krill. *

Whatcom Salmon Recovery


----------



## Stephanie (Feb 16, 2014)

lol, well how convenient...

they are suffering with climate change, in other words, a drought ....now where's Albert Gore (the god of climate change religion) to their rescue

Maybe he can do a rain dance for them


----------



## skookerasbil (Feb 16, 2014)

The whole California drought thing is the latest ruse from the AGW religion. Utter bullshit.

But don't take my word for it........take a gander into this link and check out the *massive droughts all over the world back 100's of years*.......long, long before the arrival of the Jeep Grand Cherokee.


This is the link the k00ks hate you knowing about >>>>


Chronology of Extreme Weather




Because it exposes their grand hoax!!!


----------



## percysunshine (Feb 16, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> > "Environmental special interests managed to dismantle the system by diverting water meant for farms to pet projects, such as saving delta smelt, a baitfish. That move forced the flushing of 3 million acre-feet of water originally slated for the Central Valley into the ocean over the past five years."
> ...



No lie at all. Three million acre feet of water dumped into the ocean instead of being used for food production is a fact.

Why would California politicians promote mass starvation?


----------



## tinydancer (Feb 16, 2014)

What's with the "worst drought in California history" bullshit? I don't mind people having opinions. But no one is entitled to their own facts or an interpretation of historical facts and data.


----------



## R.C. Christian (Feb 16, 2014)

It couldn't happen to a better state, but we need to put an armed border around it so the people can't flee across the country and infect us with their leftist thinking.


----------



## IlarMeilyr (Feb 16, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> denier trolls will troll.



AGW Faithers are ok with their own troll behavior.

Then, as we see in Dottie's post, they accuse those who rationally question or deny that  silly faith of being the "trolls."  

It's funny.  Pathetic, but funny.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Feb 16, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...



Like this one?

California's biggest dam removal project in history begins in Carmel Valley - San Jose Mercury News


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Feb 16, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> > "Environmental special interests managed to dismantle the system by diverting water meant for farms to pet projects, such as saving delta smelt, a baitfish. That move forced the flushing of 3 million acre-feet of water originally slated for the Central Valley into the ocean over the past five years."
> ...



Simple fact, if the area is known for droughts then you can't blame the droughts on climate change.

Another simple fact, California developed a plan for dealing with the drought and assholes, like you, thought it made more sense to save some fish. Salmon can be reintroduced to the area if your wet dreams ever come to fruition and California actually experiences a change in climate that eliminates the drought. As it is, this drought has completely dried up the streams that those salmon spawn in, so it really doesn't matter if the smelt is alive.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Feb 16, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> What's with the "worst drought in California history" bullshit? I don't mind people having opinions. But no one is entitled to their own facts or an interpretation of historical facts and data.



It is a fact, if you define history as the period since the 1849 Gold Rush.


----------



## IlarMeilyr (Feb 16, 2014)

California policies are simple minded and ill advised.  But they serve as a good exemplar of liberal hubris.  WE are not in control of climate.  We have SOME ability to mitigate the effects of climate problems.  but we cannot cause climate change nor can we end it.  Not our industry, not our CO2 emissions.  Not a carbon tax.  Nothing.

We might some day come to have great abilities over climate.  But we are not there at this point in human development.

IF the assholes who ruin -- that is "run" -- California want to address the drought problem, then they need to come up with some workable and realistic water use polices that address human needs more than the idealized needs of the smelt.


----------



## percysunshine (Feb 16, 2014)

I wonder if Russia bothered with the excuse of a bait fish.

Holodomor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## gnarlylove (Feb 16, 2014)

The California Drought: Who Gets The Water And Who's Hung Out To Dry? | Earthjustice

Excellent slideshow with facts and stories about the drought.


----------



## Samson (Feb 16, 2014)

gnarlylove said:


> The California Drought: Who Gets The Water And Who's Hung Out To Dry? | Earthjustice
> 
> Excellent slideshow with facts and stories about the drought.



Indeed.

Too bad you cannot distinguish between the facts and the stories.


----------



## gnarlylove (Feb 16, 2014)

Pictures reveal definitive facts, the kind that words cannot. But I'm well aware of the slant or bias.


----------



## westwall (Feb 16, 2014)

gnarlylove said:


> Pictures reveal definitive facts, the kind that words cannot. But I'm well aware of the slant or bias.








Pictures are frequently taken out of context rendering the information questionable.  A specialty of the environmental left I might add.


----------



## Stephanie (Feb 17, 2014)

Climate change cult members are damn scary simple minded and dangerous to us and our country

they will fall for anything and allow these politicians destroy our way of living because of it


----------



## Abraham3 (Feb 17, 2014)

westwall said:


> gnarlylove said:
> 
> 
> > Pictures reveal definitive facts, the kind that words cannot. But I'm well aware of the slant or bias.
> ...



That slideshow had nothing to do with the left or the right and I have to assume you couldn't spare the 30 seconds it would have taken to flip through the slide show.  But apparently YOUR opinion does have to do with left vs right.  

There's true science at work, eh?


----------



## Abraham3 (Feb 17, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> Climate change cult members are damn scary simple minded and dangerous to us and our country
> 
> they will fall for anything and allow these politicians destroy our way of living because of it



And neither did YOU watch the slide show.  It had NOT - *ONE - FREAKING  - WORD about climate change in it.*


----------



## tinydancer (Feb 17, 2014)

I went to the slide show. Historic drought kiss my ass. That's just for freaking starters. 

In regards to the agricultural community in California getting 80% of the water, do you like food?

 Do you like the taxes spent on social programs in that ridiculous state paid out by successful vineyards and farms? 

Because of the bullshit over the smelt which has added to this disaster,  Californians and other Americans really really better be prepared to pay huge $$$$$ for imported produce from British Columbia and other agricultural producers.

The farmers up here are already doing cartwheels thinking of this years profits. Fools. Bloody stupid fools. 

I hope they bleed Californians for every penny they can for food. 

Just so maybe the idiots in that State will realize how valuable their agricultural industry is. 

I doubt it because they are so freaking stupid, but I can always dream.


----------



## tinydancer (Feb 17, 2014)

Now I grow and freeze and can my own vegetables and for fruit I have 50 ever bearing strawberry plants and I'm going to double that and my area is loaded with wild saskatoon bushes.

So we won't be affected. 

But for all you assholes who thought it a swell idea to hurt the farmers over the delta smelt, frankly I hope you suffer greatly.


----------



## IlarMeilyr (Feb 17, 2014)

The California water use policy can be pretty accurately summarized as follows:

fish over people!


----------



## Stephanie (Feb 17, 2014)

IlarMeilyr said:


> The California water use policy can be pretty accurately summarized as follows:
> 
> fish over people!



yep, it's now a liberal/commie/radical environmentalist,, UTOPIA


----------



## Abraham3 (Feb 17, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> I went to the slide show.



So now you know that slide show had nothing to do with climate change as your previous post implied.  That's better, but to be a real improvement, you need to ADMIT THAT.


----------



## martybegan (Feb 17, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> why the deflections deniers?  WHY?!!!



The only one denying reality is you, Dot Cum.


----------



## gnarlylove (Feb 17, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> I went to the slide show. Historic drought kiss my ass. That's just for freaking starters.
> 
> In regards to the agricultural community in California getting 80% of the water, do you like food?
> 
> ...



You narrow perspective makes it seem the agricultural industry is full of good will towards humanity and only exists to provide food.

I'm afraid profits trump their old fashion values of food production as demanded by their seed owners (Monsanto and others).

Don't forget to mention the use of pesticides that produces results. Undetermined results in humans in the long term and degradation of ground water---hmm isn't the problem we don't have enough water?

This isn't black and white like you make it out to be. There are plenty of variables that you are ignoring so you can make your case, which is nothing new.


----------



## tinydancer (Feb 17, 2014)

gnarlylove said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > I went to the slide show. Historic drought kiss my ass. That's just for freaking starters.
> ...



Oh bite me. Where did I say that the agricultural industy is full of good will towards humanity and only exist to provide food?

You're lying. I never said it. So fuck you.

I've been into water conservation since Grassy Narrows. Google it. I've fought against intensive hog farms in Southern Ontario and now in Manitoba.

Re: Monsanto. I grow a large garden every year. Every seed company I deal with is GMO free. 

Don't lecture me with your smarmy little lines like "variables that I ignore so I can make my case, which is nothing new".

Are you a retread ? Or are you just pulling a typical snot nose bitchy response to any poster that doesn't agree with your way of thinking?

Oh and by the way food banks are seriously supported by the agricultural industry out in California. 

*Rick Palermo of the Community Food Bank in Fresno said he expects that the drought will lengthen lines in three Central Valley counties he serves. 

The Fresno food bank expects to receive some of the president's money, but his worry is that the donations they get from farmers may be lacking.

About half of the 30 million pounds of food they distribute each month is grown in the Central Valley, he said.

"If folks aren't growing it, there's a good chance we're not going to get the type of donations we need," Palermo said. "It's a dual impact on us."*

California farmers critical of Obama's drought relief efforts - InfoTel News


----------



## gnarlylove (Feb 17, 2014)

With such a fire cracker, no wonder we can't properly debate these issues. You are focused on establishing your ego and dominance. Sorry hun but these are irrelevant matters. But I will say I'm glad you feel like you are accomplishing something on this Earth.

But if you think agricultural business is just peachy then you are ignoring facts. Plain and simple. Saying bite me and fuck you are just exemplars of you refusing to argue on a rational level. You'd prefer to think everything is meant personally towards you. Maybe in your world that is true but in reality it doesn't work that way. I'm not saying I function solely in this zone of reality but for god sakes you have no interest in hearing facts that run contrary to your favorite folks: Big Agro.


----------



## gnarlylove (Feb 17, 2014)

I know you'll say something stupid like "Do you want food? Then support agriculture." Well duh. I've grown my own food and harvested it since I was 3 years old (with the help of my family). But to think agriculture in Cali is the manifestation of perfection then we need a long history lesson on how agriculture industry became so powerful. Society values their food production but some realize their extraneous activities in politics and resource management have little to do with food production and a lot more to do with control.


----------



## tinydancer (Feb 17, 2014)

gnarlylove said:


> With such a fire cracker, no wonder we can't properly debate these issues. You are focused on establishing your ego and dominance. Sorry hun but these are irrelevant matters. But I will say I'm glad you feel like you are accomplishing something on this Earth.
> 
> But if you think agricultural business is just peachy then you are ignoring facts. Plain and simple. Saying bite me and fuck you are just exemplars of you refusing to argue on a rational level. You'd prefer to think everything is meant personally towards you. Maybe in your world that is true but in reality it doesn't work that way. I'm not saying I function solely in this zone of reality but for god sakes you have no interest in hearing facts that run contrary to your favorite folks: Big Agro.



Where have I said the agricultural business is "just peachy"?

Where have I made the case that agriculture is "my favorite folks"?

Show me. You can't. And that makes you a liar.


----------



## gnarlylove (Feb 17, 2014)

You are defending them tooth and nail. You wouldn't admit they have major faults and are partly to blame for this crisis in the first place. You are so worried we won't appreciate the fact they provide us with much of the food in grocery stores that you ignore any faults. Let's not forget if climate change has any basis in reality, we know that agriculture has played a definite role. I mentioned pesticides, there's also the fact of trucking billions of pounds of food across the country so we can have shitty tomatoes in the wintertime here in the Midwest and East among other obvious features of Big Agro.

The food produced on massive scales necessarily suffers in quality and nutritional value (not to mention taste). Maybe we shouldn't resort to trucking this food all over the globe just so we can turn a profit. Maybe we should eat what is feasible and sustainable. But Big Agro would never tell you that, they'd point to the nicety that we can eat any veggie at any time anywhere (though they'd prefer to keep the secret that it's shitty compared to quality produce farmed locally).
Wait, how did I turn this into a debate about agriculture industry from water shortages? Oh that's right, despite the 39 million living in Cali, 80% of the water goes to a narrow band of agriculture land that isn't necessarily in the interest of a sustainable society.


----------



## Dot Com (Mar 5, 2014)

update. They're still in a world of trouble even after they've, along w/ Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, etc... been siphoning the Colorado River dry 

Does California Rain Mean the Drought Is Over?


> Experts say this welcome new weather pattern could spare the state from recording the driest winter in history. But it's "too little, too late" to turn around a creeping crisis, they say. And it does not appear to be a harbinger of sustained precipitation to come.


----------



## flacaltenn (Mar 5, 2014)

gnarlylove said:


> The food produced on massive scales necessarily suffers in quality and nutritional value (not to mention taste). Maybe we shouldn't resort to trucking this food all over the globe just so we can turn a profit. Maybe we should eat what is feasible and sustainable. But Big Agro would never tell you that, they'd point to the nicety that we can eat any veggie at any time anywhere (though they'd prefer to keep the secret that it's shitty compared to quality produce farmed locally).
> Wait, how did I turn this into a debate about agriculture industry from water shortages? Oh that's right, despite the 39 million living in Cali, 80% of the water goes to a narrow band of agriculture land that isn't necessarily in the interest of a sustainable society.



You have some of the same biases that my music and audio buds do.. They BELIEVE that MONSTER cables improve the sound, and worry about sampling rates that TECHNICALLY could never matter.. So it is with your bias about "inferior brussel sprouts"..  The diff in nutritional value or ECONOMIC value are miniscule if they ever existed. 

And all that bias is to help convince yourself that EVERYONE should be growing bananas and potatoes.. Locally.. 

There is TERRIBLE abuse of ag resources in California -- especially water use. But that's not enough of a driver to "fundamentally transform" the biz back into an 1860s model of production.. Not gonna happen Gnarly..


----------



## Dot Com (Mar 18, 2014)

Warmest Winter on Record Worsens California Drought - NBC News

well, well, well deniers


----------



## bedowin62 (Mar 18, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> Warmest Winter on Record Worsens California Drought - NBC News
> 
> well, well, well deniers





there goes the idiotic Left again. what a moron you are. 
you are the kind of idiot that tries to ridicule evangelicals for believing the Earth is only 6000 years old. then you come with some idiotic factoid that one region is having the worse drought "on record"

 but weather records have only been kept for about 130 years; the planet is like 5 billion years old or something


idiots and hypocrites


----------



## elektra (Mar 18, 2014)

California's Drought? What drought. We have as much rain this year as any year. 
Last year was one of the wettest years with us setting records in Agriculture. I guess everyone will demand links, yes? Like I could not give them. 

The big contraversy last year was the fact that despite records in rainfall that Los Angeles would not end water restrictions from the previous year.

Water Restrictions mean simply that Los Angeles charges twice the price well delivering the same amount of water.

Nobody remembers Senator Feinstein diverting water from the Central Valley to save the Delta Smelt, which somehow is still alive after 50 years of the same diversion of water to the San Joaquin valley.

I guess nobody knows the Politicians in the North reported record harvests for their farms, or that they want to take farmland for Wind Farms. 

I also guess nobody remembers that last year the Corn harvest from the Midwest was diverted to make Ethanol, Bio-Fuel. Causing a tremendous crisis with Cattle production. 

Yep we needed feed for the Cattle but the Green Energy nuts have a President which diverted Food to Fuel, allowing priced of Beef to rise dramatically.

And now the big lie is we have a drought in the Desert of California.

Its government policy that is causing problems with the medias help, not the Climate.

Not just Liberal media, I was reading an article in the Wall Street Journal about the food prices and there is not one mention of what happened last year, only this year, and this year just began but somehow this years "drought" is causing all this, seems like its not even spring yet? That this years crop is not even planted, yet this year's drought is a problem.

Well, the drought is non-existent in California. 

Not that the truth matters.


----------



## jc456 (Mar 18, 2014)

Yurt said:


> we had one of the wettest years a couple of years ago


Don't you know that was weather and doesn't count.  It only counts if you are a data climate denier (alarmist).  Only their choice of weather actually can be classified as climate.  Us, well we don't get that choice, we must concede to their irrational thought process.

I don't think anyone could actually make this stuff up.


----------



## Katzndogz (Mar 18, 2014)

California has a semi arid climate.  That means we have rain only seasonally with periodic drought.   There's no change.  As far as warm.  I've been here since 1959 and it's the same warm as it always is.


----------



## S.J. (Mar 18, 2014)

I've been here since 1970 and nothing has changed.  It's no different now than it was 40 years ago.  Hot most of the year with little rain.  Sometimes we get more than usual and sometimes less.  Claims that global warming or climate change (whatever the term is this week) is affecting California are completely bogus and designed to scare people into jumping on the "sky is falling" bandwagon.  It's a hoax, it's always been a hoax.


----------



## jc456 (Mar 18, 2014)

westwall said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > why the deflections deniers?  WHY?!!!
> ...



You're not allowed to do that, that's deflecting.  Didn't you learn anything in school?


----------



## elektra (Mar 18, 2014)

https://weathercurrents.com/hemet/NewsItemDisplay.do?Id=1090



> Storm Totals: February 28th - March 2nd, 2014
> 
> A major Pacific storm produced heavy rain, thunderstorms, wind and flooding throughout the region Friday and Saturday, with residual showers still lingering Sunday morning. The storm brought the first significant widespread rainfall of the entire 2013-14 rain season, ending what was an exceptionally dry winter up to this point.





> Rain totals for Wildomar are not accurate due to a malfunctioning gauge. Estimated total is much higher



For what its worth, a rain gauge is simply a cup you measure water in? I guess it fell and broke?

Is the government actually being truthful? 

At the beginning of the Rainy Season they call it a drought and declare and emergency, now we are well within the average amount of precipitation for any wet year and the Government is still declaring a drought well Rainfall totals are not being reported.

This is all another scam by the government to scare the people, got to keep fighting Global Warming, got to keep spending 100's of billions of dollars.

Think of the profit that would be lost if Politicians lose control of Trillion dollar budgets. Who profits from Global Warming. Think about and do a search. 

General Electric which gets the largest subsidies from Obama, does GE profit.
Oil companies, do they profit, look into it. 

Follow the money and you will find the answer to why the Government and News Media is lying about the drought.


----------



## Dot Com (May 4, 2014)

*** update!!!

Heat and Drought Fuel 'Unseasonable' Start to California Wildfires - NBC News


----------



## S.J. (May 4, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> *** update!!!
> 
> Heat and Drought Fuel 'Unseasonable' Start to California Wildfires - NBC News


And your point is what, that Republicans are to blame for California being prone to wildfires?


----------



## Dot Com (May 4, 2014)

S.J. said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > *** update!!!
> ...



of course  You didn't read the OP?


----------



## Dot Com (May 4, 2014)

Black Forest Couple Knew 'Immediately' They Would Rebuild - NBC News


----------



## Old Rocks (May 4, 2014)

elektra said:


> California's Drought? What drought. We have as much rain this year as any year.
> Last year was one of the wettest years with us setting records in Agriculture. I guess everyone will demand links, yes? Like I could not give them.
> 
> The big contraversy last year was the fact that despite records in rainfall that Los Angeles would not end water restrictions from the previous year.
> ...



Well, asshole, no links, no credibility.
California drought: Sierra snowpack is barely there - SFGate

The snow levels in the Sierra were only 18 percent of average on Thursday, when the last of the season's once-a-month measurements was taken by the California Department of Water Resources. That's worse than last month, when the snowpack was 32 percent of normal for the date.


----------



## DriftingSand (May 4, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> 
> 
> > The most populated state in the country is facing what may be its worst drought in a century of record-keeping. On January 20, the governor of California declared a state of emergency, urging everyone to begin conserving water. Water levels in all but a few reservoirs in the state are less than 50% of capacity, mountains are nearly bare of snow except at the highest elevations, and the fire risk is extreme.  In Nevada, the situation is much the same.
> ...



Why could this be? Because much of California is a desert.  I was born and raised there at it was not uncommon to experience long periods of heat and dry weather. Nothing new!!  Move along.


----------



## Dot Com (May 4, 2014)

^ anecdotal evidence in a debate?


----------



## S.J. (May 4, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...


So California is having another drought, nothing new.  It's been going on for many centuries, what is your fucking point???


----------



## Politico (May 5, 2014)

Yawn...


----------



## elektra (May 6, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


> elektra said:
> 
> 
> > California's Drought? What drought. We have as much rain this year as any year.
> ...



no links no credibility? wow, so only a google searchable link is credible, good thing Google is a Liberal Democrat controlled search engine. 

The Castaic Reservoir is full, I am the witness to this. Here is my pick. 

I bet I can take a pic of Diamond Valley lake and prove that reservoir is full as well.


----------



## elektra (May 6, 2014)

How did the reservoirs become full during a drought? Its a great question, I remember last year when we got all that rain, record grape crops, which is a water intensive crop. 

I wonder what the grape production will be this year, will it be another record? 

Record California Wine Grape Harvest - Wines & Vines - Wine Industry News Headlines



> Record California Wine Grape Harvest 4.23 million tons crushed, according to preliminary grape crush report
> 
> Read more at: Record California Wine Grape Harvest - Wines & Vines - Wine Industry News Headlines
> Copyright © Wines & Vines



Basically the media, the internet media webpages, the democrats, and all the supporters must lie in order to sell global warming, most of you will never see the Castaic Lake reservoir or Diamond Valley lake so you will never know the truth.



> San Rafael, Calif.&#8212;California followed up the bumper harvest of 2012 with an even larger one in 2013. At 4.23 million tons, it was higher than analysts expected. According to the preliminary grape crush report released today by the USDA National Agricultural Statistics Service, California growers produced 2.41 million tons of red wine grapes and 1.83 million tons of white wine grapes).
> 
> Read more at: Record California Wine Grape Harvest - Wines & Vines - Wine Industry News Headlines
> Copyright © Wines & Vines



so the production of grapes keeps going up? even in severe drought? 

good things liberals drink so much wine, still, how is it possible in a severe drought? And what about the increase in use of water for Solar Panels, for Solar Farms, how can California afford billions of gallons of water for Solar Power?

Think about it, going into the summer, the dry period for California, all the Reservoirs are full, how is it possible and why should a drought emergency be declared while all the reservoirs are full?


----------



## Dot Com (May 14, 2014)

Southern California Fires Force Thousands to Evacuate - NBC News


----------



## Gracie (May 14, 2014)

Well, all I know is I live here and it SUCKS with this heat wave. And no, it is not normal in this neck of the woods.


----------



## Old Rocks (May 14, 2014)

elektra said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > elektra said:
> ...



California drought: Sierra snowpack is barely there - SFGate

As it is, Californians will have to make do with half-full reservoirs.

Lake Oroville, the primary storage reservoir for the State Water Project, is at 53 percent of its capacity, which is 65 percent of average for this time. Shasta Lake, which is part of the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation's Central Valley Project and is the largest reservoir in the state, is at 53 percent of capacity, or 61 percent of normal.

The San Luis Reservoir - an important summer supply pool for both the State Water Project and the Central Valley Project - is 47 percent full, which is 52 percent of its historical storage level for this time of year.


----------



## DriftingSand (May 14, 2014)

You mean the desert called California is experiencing heat?  Wow. I'll tell my friends. That's horrible.


----------



## Old Rocks (May 14, 2014)

elektra said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > elektra said:
> ...



Well, Elektra, looks like you stand branded a liar. 71% is not full.

California Data Exchange Center

I don't see a Diamond Valley on that list, but for all the resevoirs on that list, the overall average is 64.5%. In mid-May. Not at all a good number.


----------



## Dot Com (May 14, 2014)

S.J. said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > S.J. said:
> ...



read the OP & might be able to figure it out son.


----------



## S.J. (May 14, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...


You gonna come back in two more weeks and post the same thing again?


----------



## Dot Com (May 14, 2014)

I'm sick of low-info, rw, reactionary posters jumping into the thread, head first w/o reading the OP mind you, to vomit forth their opinion. Save it Skippy


----------



## S.J. (May 14, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> I'm sick of low-info, rw, reactionary posters jumping into the thread, head first w/o reading the OP mind you, to vomit forth their opinion. Save it Skippy


I really don't give a shit what you're sick of, Dot Cum.  Got it, hack?  Now go crawl back under your rock.


----------



## FireFly (May 14, 2014)

Texans are drinking their own toilet water in order to not admit to climate change.

[youtube]8FtLJIH_YzU[/youtube]


----------



## S.J. (May 14, 2014)

FireFly said:


> Texans are drinking their own toilet water in order to not admit to climate change.
> 
> [youtube]8FtLJIH_YzU[/youtube]


I thought you libs were all for recycling.  Oh yeah, only when it fits into your arguments.


----------



## jon_berzerk (May 14, 2014)

FireFly said:


> Texans are drinking their own toilet water in order to not admit to climate change.
> 
> [youtube]8FtLJIH_YzU[/youtube]



everyone lives downstream from someone


----------



## FireFly (May 14, 2014)

jon_berzerk said:


> FireFly said:
> 
> 
> > Texans are drinking their own toilet water in order to not admit to climate change.
> ...



Bullshit! - My water comes from the rain. Most live downstream from me. Enjoy my shit. - LOL


----------



## jon_berzerk (May 14, 2014)

FireFly said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > FireFly said:
> ...



rain runoff yum yum


----------



## Politico (May 15, 2014)

FireFly said:


> Texans are drinking their own toilet water in order to not admit to climate change.
> 
> [youtube]8FtLJIH_YzU[/youtube]



They drink out of muddy hoof prints too. Your point?


----------



## orogenicman (May 15, 2014)

Politico said:


> FireFly said:
> 
> 
> > Texans are drinking their own toilet water in order to not admit to climate change.
> ...



That Texans will drink anything - as long as it is wet?


----------



## Dot Com (Jul 31, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> 
> 
> > The most populated state in the country is facing what may be its worst drought in a century of record-keeping. On January 20, the governor of California declared a state of emergency, urging everyone to begin conserving water. Water levels in all but a few reservoirs in the state are less than 50% of capacity, mountains are nearly bare of snow except at the highest elevations, and the fire risk is extreme.  In Nevada, the situation is much the same.
> ...



California Drought Crisis Reaches Worst Level as It Spreads North - NBC News


----------



## Dot Com (Jul 31, 2014)

California Board Approves Fines for Water Wasters | NBC Southern California


----------



## boedicca (Jul 31, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> 
> 
> > The most populated state in the country is facing what may be its worst drought in a century of record-keeping. On January 20, the governor of California declared a state of emergency, urging everyone to begin conserving water. Water levels in all but a few reservoirs in the state are less than 50% of capacity, mountains are nearly bare of snow except at the highest elevations, and the fire risk is extreme.  In Nevada, the situation is much the same.
> ...





They have only kept records for 100 years.

CA periodically goes through droughts; and 100 years is statistically insignificant on a climatological scale.

The real problem in CA is that enviromoonbats have prevented the expansion of water storage and delivery infrastructure to keep pace with population growth and the needs of the agriculture industry.  They actually lobby to destroy dams and reservoirs.

Given that periods of drought are NORMAL in CA, we should build more dams and reservoirs so that water in plentiful times is stored for future droughts.

Oh, and it would help not to drain reservoirs during a drought to try to reclaim salmon runs that dried up decades ago.


----------



## Dot Com (Jul 31, 2014)

^  LINK!!!?


----------



## westwall (Jul 31, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> ...









Poor Dottie.  As if drought is uncommon in California.  Here's the deal low information silly person, most of Cali is a DESERT!  I know!  Shocking huh!  And here's the real funny part.....they built this huge city RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT DESERT!  Hilarious...right?

Now, for the bad news....

*California drought: Past dry periods have lasted more than 200 years, scientists say*

See that headline there....*PAST* droughts...now...what exactly does that mean?  Why I think that means that drought is pretty common in Cali, don't you?  And furthermore...they can last a reeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaalll long time.

So, in other words...your panic stricken OP is pointless.  Yup, you heard me correctly.  It is pointless.  It means nothing.  And in fact serves to expose your colossal ignorance to the board.  And for that we thanks you!

California drought: Past dry periods have lasted more than 200 years, scientists say - San Jose Mercury News


----------



## Crick (Jul 31, 2014)

Then I guess the governor should have checked with you before declaring a state of emergency.  And NOAA should have checked with you before declaring this the worst drought since record keeping began there.

Those silly people.  I can't believe they didn't think to check with you.


----------



## jc456 (Jul 31, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> I'm sick of low-info, rw, reactionary posters jumping into the thread, head first w/o reading the OP mind you, to vomit forth their opinion. Save it Skippy



"California suffering through SEVERE climate change" says who besides you?  Nowhere in the OP other than your title.  So Prove severe.  You know, maybe you should watch what you post instead of losing control at a poster on the board.


----------



## westwall (Jul 31, 2014)

Crick said:


> Then I guess the governor should have checked with you before declaring a state of emergency.  And NOAA should have checked with you before declaring this the worst drought since record keeping began there.
> 
> Those silly people.  I can't believe they didn't think to check with you.








  Poor cricky, you try and make it sound like it's never happened, and then when pointed out that it is a *REGULAR OCCURENCE*, you change tack and try and make it all about concern...what a silly, silly person you are.


----------



## Crick (Jul 31, 2014)

Worst drought in a hundred years is not a regular occurrence.  Regular ocurrences do not induce the government to declare a state of emergency.

Poor Westie.  He's just stupid.


----------



## westwall (Jul 31, 2014)

Crick said:


> Worst drought in a hundred years is not a regular occurrence.  Regular ocurrences do not induce the government to declare a state of emergency.
> 
> Poor Westie.  He's just stupid.








I suggest you read the article before you really make a fool out of yourself.....uh oh....too late


----------



## SSDD (Jul 31, 2014)

Crick said:


> Worst drought in a hundred years is not a regular occurrence.  Regular ocurrences do not induce the government to declare a state of emergency.
> 
> Poor Westie.  He's just stupid.



If you want to know how bad a drought is, or if there is even a drought...look at the native vegetation....if it is healthy and growing, then there is no drought no matter what you would like to believe.  The climate there is doing what it has done for tens of thousands of years...it is doing what the native vegetation has evolved to live with...the drought is non existent...there are water problems for people who might want to call it drought..but it isn't drought and the native vegetation is there calling bullshit on the claim every second of every day.


----------



## Dot Com (Jul 31, 2014)

^ link?

Heres MY link:

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ca...-reaches-worst-level-it-spreads-north-n169516


> As California starts handing out its first fines to water-wasters, new data reveals the state&#8217;s crippling drought conditions have never been worse. As of Tuesday &#8212; the same day the stricter restrictions went into effect &#8212; more than 58 percent of the state was in an &#8220;exceptional drought&#8221; stage, according to the latest U.S. Drought Monitor map. That&#8217;s a drastic jump from just a week earlier when about 36 percent of the state was suffering under exceptional drought, meaning there&#8217;s widespread crop and pasture losses and shortages of water in reservoirs, streams and wells. In comparison, there were no areas in California categorized as exceptional &#8212; the most extreme category &#8212; at the beginning of the year even amid a three-year dry period.


----------



## mamooth (Jul 31, 2014)

The El Nino is fizzling out, so no drought relief for California there.


----------



## westwall (Jul 31, 2014)

mamooth said:


> The El Nino is fizzling out, so no drought relief for California there.







And the global temperature will continue to drop.  Inexorably.  Get used to it admiral, the world done passed you and your "theory" by.


----------



## jc456 (Jul 31, 2014)

mamooth said:


> The El Nino is fizzling out, so no drought relief for California there.



Where was there an El Nino?  Since there wasn't one, it never fizzled out.  LOL.  It seems to me that you are looking for the earth to get warmer.  this just proves that!


----------



## mamooth (Jul 31, 2014)

westwall said:


> And the global temperature will continue to drop.  Inexorably.  Get used to it admiral, the world done passed you and your "theory" by.



Interesting theory. If global temps didn't keep setting new record highs, it wouldn't look so insane.

No matter. Time will tell. How many more years of rising temps will it take before you admit to being wrong?


----------



## skookerasbil (Jul 31, 2014)

old news......has nothing to do with climate change. Drought BS is just another alarmist ruse......all anybody has to do is go back and check the last 100 year history of drought. It comes. It goes. It comes, it goes. When it goes.....and doesn't return for years as historical data shows very vividly...... you never hear dick from the alarmist k00ks.


----------



## skookerasbil (Jul 31, 2014)

mamooth said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > And the global temperature will continue to drop.  Inexorably.  Get used to it admiral, the world done passed you and your "theory" by.
> ...





"record highs"


Just to bring the banter back to Realville, the "record highs" the past two months globally were.........ready for this.........




*1/20th


of


one


degree*


----------



## skookerasbil (Jul 31, 2014)




----------



## skookerasbil (Jul 31, 2014)




----------



## boedicca (Jul 31, 2014)

Crick said:


> Worst drought in a hundred years is not a regular occurrence.  Regular ocurrences do not induce the government to declare a state of emergency.
> 
> Poor Westie.  He's just stupid.




You are a moron.

SRSLY


----------



## boedicca (Jul 31, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> ^ link?
> 
> Heres MY link:
> 
> ...





Exceptional drought in a region known for periodically having Exceptional Droughts is not Climate Change, bub.  It's just NATURE.


----------



## skookerasbil (Jul 31, 2014)




----------



## skookerasbil (Jul 31, 2014)

asshats..........


----------



## skookerasbil (Jul 31, 2014)

*Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooops!!!!*


----------



## Dot Com (Jul 31, 2014)

if all you deniers are going to do is leave ad homs, please go to a denier-friendly thread. Thank you for your cooperation.

 This thread is for discussion of the severe 3-yr long & counting extreme drought in Cali


----------



## MaryL (Jul 31, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> 
> 
> > The most populated state in the country is facing what may be its worst drought in a century of record-keeping. On January 20, the governor of California declared a state of emergency, urging everyone to begin conserving water. Water levels in all but a few reservoirs in the state are less than 50% of capacity, mountains are nearly bare of snow except at the highest elevations, and the fire risk is extreme.  In Nevada, the situation is much the same.
> ...



The butterfly effect? Or, maybe, record numbers of people are effecting the environment negatively? Nah, it must be solar variations or volcanos or other stuff. This is where we collectively whistle past the graveyard. With the mantra: there  is no man made climate change! There is no climate change!


----------



## westwall (Jul 31, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> if all you deniers are going to do is leave ad homs, please go to a denier-friendly thread. Thank you for your cooperation.
> 
> This thread is for discussion of the severe 3-yr long & counting extreme drought in Cali








Which is normal for the region.  Ad hom all you want, but there is nothing "terrifying" or "record breaking" or "extreme" about this drought.  It is business as usual in a desert region.


----------



## skookerasbil (Jul 31, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> if all you deniers are going to do is leave ad homs, please go to a denier-friendly thread. Thank you for your cooperation.
> 
> This thread is for discussion of the severe 3-yr long & counting extreme drought in Cali



How typical?

Its always the ones that yell the loudest for openmindedness, inclusion, integration and tolerance that are also the ones that slam the lid on anybody who doesn't agree with them. It is the benchmark of the far left phonies.


----------



## SSDD (Aug 1, 2014)

mamooth said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > And the global temperature will continue to drop.  Inexorably.  Get used to it admiral, the world done passed you and your "theory" by.
> ...



Global temps aren't setting new record highs...climate scientists are setting new records for data tampering in an effort to keep their gravy train rolling.  The satellite record isn't showing what you claim at all.


----------



## Politico (Aug 1, 2014)

westwall said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > if all you deniers are going to do is leave ad homs, please go to a denier-friendly thread. Thank you for your cooperation.
> ...



That.


----------



## Crick (Aug 1, 2014)

westwall said:


> Which is normal for the region.



If it was normal for the region, it wouldn't have broken a record over a hundred years in the making.



westwall said:


> there is nothing... "record breaking" or "extreme" about this drought.



By definition, there is.  Your statement is demonstrably, factually FALSE.



westwall said:


> It is business as usual in a desert region.



I suspect the problem is that you have a grossly oversimplified understanding of desert climate and the climate of the state of California.  California is NOT all desert and deserts are NOT entirely devoid of rain.  That you fail to respond, time after time after time when it is pointed out to you that this drought IS extreme and HAS broken records, tells us that, as always, you have no valid points to make.


----------



## jc456 (Aug 1, 2014)

Crick said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Which is normal for the region.
> ...



zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Wake me when you post something factual.


----------



## flacaltenn (Aug 1, 2014)

It doesn't rain in California until October. Everyone knows that. 
So hosting a hysterical drought-watch for 6 dry months is TRULY a snooze.. 

Drought, Fire, Flood, and Mud --- According to Johnny Carson, the 4 seasons of California. 
MEANWHILE -- The Great National US drought ?? Not so much anymore. All THAT whining
was wasted as well..






I HATE being the bearer of good news in this forum..


----------



## Dot Com (Aug 1, 2014)

Crick said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Which is normal for the region.
> ...



^ that

seems like his, & his denier cohorts, sole purpose here is to deny & deflect. Notice how he didn't supply one link?  Just his denier opinion  deniers!!! No link? Then


----------



## SSDD (Aug 1, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> Crick said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



What's happening with the native vegetation doofus?  Is it drying up an dying or is it growing business as usual?  If it is in good shape, then as far as it is concerned, there is no drought...it is simply living in the environment it evolved to live in..

Get back to us when the native vegetation is drying up and dying...then, there will be an actual drought.


----------



## skookerasbil (Aug 1, 2014)

drought related to climate change is a complete AGW alarmist fabrication of the truth.

Go check the historical graphs on the proceeding page!! If you still buy it, you must have a plate in your head.


----------



## DriftingSand (Aug 1, 2014)

California: Suffering through severe Liberalism.  Sad.


----------



## Dot Com (Aug 5, 2014)

update people. This isn't going away anytime soon ESPECIALLY if we follow the carbon cheerleaders ideology:

A modern-day Dust Bowl
(snip)


> As a drought unfolds slowly and devastatingly, California farmers feel desperate and abandoned
> Taylor, who is now 80, has watched as some of the most viable farmland in the country has slowly withered away in recent months. In its place is the same kind of cracked, fallowed ground that his parents spoke of so long ago, perpetuated by a drought so catastrophic that many here have wondered if the dry spell that drove their ancestors toward California decades ago may be repeating itself here in a way that could be even more devastating.


----------



## Kosh (Aug 5, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> update people. This isn't going away anytime soon ESPECIALLY if we follow the carbon cheerleaders ideology:
> 
> A modern-day Dust Bowl
> (snip)
> ...



Another AGW cult member that believes that deserts would not exist without human influence.


----------



## westwall (Aug 5, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> update people. This isn't going away anytime soon ESPECIALLY if we follow the carbon cheerleaders ideology:
> 
> A modern-day Dust Bowl
> (snip)
> ...








  Poor Dottie... I noticed you "forgot" to post the picture that go's with your link....  Here, let me correct that for you!







Gee, I wonder what "CONGRESS CREATED" means?


----------



## Old Rocks (Aug 5, 2014)

Gee, did Congress mandate no rain in California?


----------



## Stephanie (Aug 5, 2014)

man oh man, P.T. Barnum was right.....Now they're claiming California is suffering sever climate change

isn't parts of it a desert?


----------



## Dot Com (Aug 5, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


> Gee, did Congress mandate no rain in California?



I know right?  westwall can't see the forest for the trees  In his defense, most all deniers here are like that.


----------



## mamooth (Aug 5, 2014)

SSDD said:


> What's happening with the native vegetation doofus?  Is it drying up an dying or is it growing business as usual?  If it is in good shape, then as far as it is concerned, there is no drought...it is simply living in the environment it evolved to live in..
> 
> Get back to us when the native vegetation is drying up and dying...then, there will be an actual drought.



The Joshua Trees aren't doing well. They may vanish from Joshua Tree National Park.

Outlook Bleak for Joshua Trees : NPR

http://www.fs.fed.us/rm/pubs_other/rmrs_2011_cole_k001.pdf


----------



## Dot Com (Aug 12, 2014)

*** update

On Top Of Withering Drought, California Smashes Heat Records


> Caught in a withering drought, California is also shattering a 120-year-old record for heat.
> 
> For the first half of 2014, the state has been an average of 4.6 degrees Fahrenheit warmer than normal, and 1 degree warmer than the previous record set in 1934, according to the National Climatic Data Center.
> 
> In the business of climate science, this is a shattering of a record, said Jonathan Overpeck, of the University of Arizonas Institute of the Environment. As for whats driving this unprecedented heat, Overpeck told the Palm Springs Desert Sun, We are fairly certain that the unusual warmth is mostly due to human-caused global warming.



Discuss...


----------



## whitehall (Aug 12, 2014)

Meanwhile the East Coast has record rain and 70 degree temps daytime in August when the temperatures should be in the 90's. Is it cyclic or do I have to bring up the Ice Age?


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Aug 12, 2014)

whitehall said:


> Meanwhile the East Coast has record rain and 70 degree temps daytime in August when the temperatures should be in the 90's. Is it cyclic or do I have to bring up the Ice Age?



  This has been the mildest summer in Houston that I can remember,and last winter was colder than normal as well. And I expect another cold winter based on current temps.Yet I've seen no less than three charts saying we are above average temps.


----------



## Dot Com (Aug 12, 2014)

last two posts have no sourcing


----------



## JWBooth (Aug 12, 2014)

Its a drouth, they happen from time to time. The San Joaquin Valley was desert until irrigation.


----------



## SSDD (Aug 13, 2014)

mamooth said:


> SSDD said:
> 
> 
> > What's happening with the native vegetation doofus?  Is it drying up an dying or is it growing business as usual?  If it is in good shape, then as far as it is concerned, there is no drought...it is simply living in the environment it evolved to live in..
> ...



You prove every day that stupid just can't be fixed....scientists "predict"?  Scientists also predicted, using the same models, that the arctic would be ice free by last year...climate scientists predict and predict and predict and strangely, none of their predictions ever come true.  In fact, just the opposite tends to happen...Maybe we should prepare for the joshua tree to become an invasive species causing problems across the entire country.

Further, the predicted demise of the tree is claimed to be primarily due to the demise of the giant sloth...an animal that spread the seeds of the tree...an animal that went extinct 10,000 years before the invention of the internal combustion engine...


----------



## flacaltenn (Aug 13, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


> Gee, did Congress mandate no rain in California?



Of course not GoldiRocks -- but as anyone who has ever lived there can tell you -- It hardly ever rains from May to October in almost the entire state. So to be whining about this CONTINUING for the past six months is just looking silly. The TYPE of deficits that make up the current drought is about what my area gets in a couple good days. That's what happens when you recieve very little EXPECTED precipt every year. The PERCENTAGE of shortfall accumulates rapidly.. That's part of being a desert.. 

One week of drizzle will bring the drought to a halt on paper. And then the state will STILL face water problems like always. Because of agribiz, lack of Southern Cal. storage and increasing development. Time to can the bullet train and build some de-sal units.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Aug 13, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> 
> 
> > The most populated state in the country is facing what may be its worst drought in a century of record-keeping. On January 20, the governor of California declared a state of emergency, urging everyone to begin conserving water. Water levels in all but a few reservoirs in the state are less than 50% of capacity, mountains are nearly bare of snow except at the highest elevations, and the fire risk is extreme.  In Nevada, the situation is much the same.
> ...



^ Local, not global.


----------



## Crick (Aug 15, 2014)

Keep that in mind.


----------



## elektra (Aug 19, 2014)

We just got two inches of rain in Riverside county California.  

Last year we set a record, largest grape harvest in our history. Grapes are fat with water.

Of course California always took more water from the Colorado river, more water than what we are allowed under negotiated law with Arizona and Nevada,  now that both those states take their total allotments California must take less.

And let's  not forget that solar power plants have been given billions of gallons of water, as late as of yesterday, literally.

At the same time the cost to move water in california is rising faster than the reservoirs are dropping, the cost of moving the water is skyrocketing because of green energy and liberal - Democrat politics.

Shutting down two nuclear power plants in california adds to the cost of moving water.

California is about the easiest place to manufacture global warming. Especially considering half the state is made up of illegal aliens that have little education.

Enjoy the cost of your food, at least while you can, one day the liberal democrats along with the rhinos and independents will be credited with causing the first mass starvation in the usa.


----------



## Old Rocks (Aug 19, 2014)

Solar power plants have been given billions of gallons of water? Link?

How much water does a nuclear power plant use? That column of water vapor coming out of the cooling towers represents a lot of water. 

Frankly, given the quatity of your posts, you have no basis to talk of other having little education.


----------



## Dot Com (Aug 19, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


> Solar power plants have been given billions of gallons of water? Link?
> 
> How much water does a nuclear power plant use? That column of water vapor coming out of the cooling towers represents a lot of water.
> 
> Frankly, given the quatity of your posts, you have no basis to talk of other having little education.


notice how the last 3+ denier posts provided no sources? Typical.


----------



## westwall (Aug 20, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > Solar power plants have been given billions of gallons of water? Link?
> ...








I guess they assumed you could do basic google searches.  Clearly they were wrong.  Here you go...


"Up to about 11,000 years ago, bear-sized shasta ground sloth roamed the deserts of the southwest. A substantial amount of their dung has been found, fossilized, packed full of intact, undigested Joshua Tree seeds, as reported in Harrington 1933:193. These fossilized heaps of dung have led researchers to believe the sloth was the main vehicle for the distribution of seeds. A few animals still transport the seed, rodents and birds carry them quite far actually, but not in the volume or distance that a shasta ground sloth would. Most of the time, when the seeds are passed through the insides of a rodent or bird, the seed dies from either being chewed up, or damaged by the stomach acids, and what is excreted is unable to sprout. When rodents cache the fruit underground, the trees may sprout, but without the seeds traveling great distances as they had previously, they are growing in the same environment as their parent trees. The problem is that this environment is changing and it is no longer the best place for a Joshua Tree."


Missing Sloths, Modern Pollution, and the Fate of the Joshua Tree &#8211; News Watch


----------



## Crick (Aug 20, 2014)

elektra said:


> And let's  not forget that solar power plants have been given billions of gallons of water, as late as of yesterday, literally.



I also would like to see what reference tells you that solar uses billions of gallons of water.  Cause my source:
Fact Check: How Much Water Does Solar Power Really Use? | Solar | ReWire | KCET  says you're full of shit.


----------



## elektra (Aug 21, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


> Solar power plants have been given billions of gallons of water? Link?
> 
> How much water does a nuclear power plant use? That column of water vapor coming out of the cooling towers represents a lot of water.
> 
> Frankly, given the quatity of your posts, you have no basis to talk of other having little education.


Link, 

I should link to something as simple and known as Solar Power's water usage?

Nuclear Power supplies the energy needed to produce Solar Power plant components, Solar Power is too weak to provide the power its own industry needs to sustain itself. 

Commercial Solar Power is a parasite, devouring more and more Fossil Fuel every year, $100's billions of dollars in. all types of raw materials and energy.

educate yourself, Old Crock, 

How about I simply link to all those posts in the usmb's that Old Crock has eaten shoe? Old fool!


----------



## Crick (Aug 21, 2014)

So you're saying that other power supplies took billions of gallons of water to generate the electricity (in gas, coal and nuke power plants) to produce the components needed to assemble solar power plants?

It's getting to the point that just seeing your name appear causes the bullshit alarm to sound.


----------



## elektra (Aug 21, 2014)

I imagine for an idiot such as crick, the fact that solar uses water is hard to grasp

Yes crick, it's as I stated, solar power uses water. A lot.

Is that easier to comprehend, crick?


----------



## elektra (Aug 21, 2014)

Look, drought clouds in southern California


----------



## S.J. (Aug 21, 2014)

It rained like hell all day yesterday.  Some streets were flooded, storm drains overflowing.  Yeah, what a drought!


----------



## SSDD (Aug 22, 2014)

California is living through its normal climate....which is actually quite mild right now compared to the not so distant past when droughts persisted for centuries...


----------



## longknife (Aug 22, 2014)

SSDD said:


> California is living through its normal climate....which is actually quite mild right now compared to the not so distant past when droughts persisted for centuries...



Thank you.

Droughts are nothing new to California.

The problem is not the lack of rain, it's the overpopulation of humans!!!


----------



## mamooth (Aug 22, 2014)

elektra said:


> I imagine for an idiot such as crick, the fact that solar uses water is hard to grasp
> 
> Yes crick, it's as I stated, solar power uses water. A lot.
> 
> Is that easier to comprehend, crick?



You made up another stupid story, got caught, and now you're crying.

Do you think solar panels use water?

Do you think a solar thermal station has an open steam cycle like an old steam engine train?

I've worked closed-cycle steam plants. Water losses each day are in the thousands of gallons range. Watering a good sized lawn would use more. That's just a touch short of the "billions" that you claimed.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Aug 22, 2014)

But it's only CA so it's local, not global


----------



## Crick (Aug 23, 2014)

What's local?  The amount of water used by solar plants?  I'm really curious.  Where did you get the idea that billions of gallons of water were being used either in the manufacture or operation of solar power plants?  I asked you this before and you just threw out some meaningless comment about nuclear power plants.  If you've actually got one, I'd like to understand what you're actually thinking here.  This isn't the first time you've made the charge that the manufacture and construction of a solar power planet uses up enormous resources.  Can you explain?


----------



## Crick (Aug 23, 2014)

What's local?  The amount of water used by a solar power plant?


----------



## Dot Com (Aug 23, 2014)

Haboob Storm System Covers Palm Springs California with Dust - Yahoo


----------



## Katzndogz (Aug 23, 2014)

Periodic drought is normal climate for California, especially Southern California.  So the climate isn't at all changing.  The climate is acting normally.  We have rainfall only seasonally with periods of severe drought.  It's always been like this.  It's why our normal climate is semi arid.


----------



## Dot Com (Aug 23, 2014)

I'm talking about the areas that are NOT usually in drought. Looked at the level of Lake Mead lately in your neighbor state crazy cat lady?


----------



## longknife (Aug 23, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> I'm talking about the areas that are NOT usually in drought. Looked at the level of Lake Mead lately in your neighbor state crazy cat lady?



While there is a low snow cap in the Rockies, the major reason for Lake Mead's level being so low is simply a matter of HUMAN USAGE! In order to provide for downstream populations and agriculture, the water is going through at a rate determined by the need. .


----------



## Dot Com (Aug 23, 2014)

Lake Folsom, Ca


----------



## westwall (Aug 24, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> I'm talking about the areas that are NOT usually in drought. Looked at the level of Lake Mead lately in your neighbor state crazy cat lady?







Ummmm, Lake Mead is in the MIDDLE OF The desert!  You truly have no clue do you....


----------



## Crick (Aug 24, 2014)

*Wikipedia

Lake Mead* is the largest reservoir in the United States in maximum water capacity. It is located on the Colorado River about 24 mi (39 km) from the Strip southeast of Las Vegas, Nevada, in the states of Nevada and Arizona. Formed by the Hoover Dam, Lake Mead is 112 miles (180 km) long when the lake is full, has 759 miles (1,221 km) of shoreline, is 532 feet (152 meters) at greatest depth, with a surface elevation of 1,221.4 feet (327.3 metres) above sea level, and has 247 square miles (640 km2) of surface, and when filled to capacity, 28 million acre-feet (35 km3) of water. However, the lake has not fully reached this capacity since 1983 due to a combination of drought and increased water demand. [1][2][3]


----------



## Dot Com (Aug 24, 2014)

California Drought - San Jose Mercury News


----------



## Katzndogz (Aug 24, 2014)

California is suffering through normal climate.  It's headlines.

Because the climate is one of periodic drought, the region once had a drought that lasted 200 years.  Would that have been climate change?  No.


----------



## Dot Com (Aug 24, 2014)

California drought Maps showing severity of drought in California and the West - San Jose Mercury News


----------



## flacaltenn (Aug 24, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> Lake Folsom, Ca




And last Feb, the lake rose 20 feet Iin 4 DAYS!!  Largely due to one storm.  Thats the statistic of living in a desert.
Also the Folsom Lake Marina webcams show navigable waters today.  So your pix is chosen to make it appear the lake is entirely dry when it is not.   

Folsom Lake rises 20 feet in 4 days Local News - Home

View the short news report for an i pressive demonstration of just how little weather is required to fis this.


----------



## elektra (Aug 24, 2014)

mamooth said:


> elektra said:
> 
> 
> > I imagine for an idiot such as crick, the fact that solar uses water is hard to grasp
> ...



You have worked? So have I, I have physically worked on the largest steam generator ever made, mamoot claims knowledge, I have worked on combustion engineering 3410's, which has nothing to do with any solar plant 

solar, the perfect power, takes nothing to create, you just dream and it's there, like unicorns. Yes, solar is a water hog, largest in the desert while relying on coal power to supply it's water.

water which is needed to wash all that dry desert.dirt which destroys, literally, it's abrasive, destroys the paint on cars. Any how, all solar plants get washed.

and someone makes the MOOT point not even related to washing the panels. Seems someone really knows nothing.


----------



## Crick (Aug 25, 2014)

You have yet to explain where billions of gallons of water are being used.  They most certainly are not being consumed rinsing dust off mirror panels.


----------



## Crick (Aug 25, 2014)

Here is the first (and so far only) comment about water used washing panels that contained actual amounts. This is from the Las Vegas Sun newspaper and does not identify its sources.



> Solar photovoltaic developers say their plants don’t use much water, but “much” is relative. True, they use a fraction of what a water-cooled solar thermal power plant consumes annually — about a 16,689 gallons per megawatt for photovoltaics compared with 2.61 million gallons per megawatt for wet-cooled solar thermal —but a large photovoltaic array can still easily use more water in a year than an entire residential block.
> 
> The array planned for Primm [Ivanpah], for example, is expected to annually require at least as much water as 10.5 average Las Vegas households.


Dirty detail Solar panels need water - Las Vegas Sun News

So.  Ten average Las Vegas households.

Las Vegas water use seems to be an ongoing issue with the Sun as they pop up repeatedly in searches on the topic.  I finally found this quote from them:


> Those customers use, on average, 8,700 to 12,000 gallons of water per month.


Water The more you use the more you ll have to pay - Las Vegas Sun News

So, let's take the upper number: 12,000 gallons.  That would mean they believe the Ivanpah solar facility is estimate to use roughly *1,512,000 gallons PER YEAR*.  Just a skosh short (three orders of magnitude) of "billions".

I'm not crazy about using small newspapers for reference sources but their isn't much else.  And besides, washing the panels does not occur at a fixed rate.  The need for it depends on the weather conditions that can cause it (dry dusty conditions) and the occasional desert downpour that can take it away with no expenditure at all.  Since none of the facilities I looked in to were planning on washing more than monthly and some as few as three times per year, weather conditions could have a major impact on their actual wash water consumption.  Finally, there is the point that a significant portion of water used rinsing the panels returns to its source.

So, nothing LIKE billions of gallons of water are consumed by even the largest solar plants washing dust off their panels.


----------



## elektra (Aug 25, 2014)

You are using the avg. residential water use as the use of solar panels?

Your article claims 16,689 gallons per megawatt, so how about a little honesty on your part, crick. That's mwh? Yes, or no, must depend on the system, yes?

Further, if your only idea of a source, is to go "fish", playing cards with google, than that kind of shows Crick, lacks the education to do simple searches with google.

a simple search on water use and solar turns up thousands of articles for residential use.

But, if Crick knew anything about Green Energy, Crick would search the environmental impact studies, not articles in biased newspapers. 

Billions of gallons of water used by Solar Power, in cooling and cleaning and let's not forget the manufacture,  as long as we care for accuracy and truth.


----------



## haissem123 (Aug 25, 2014)

if you think we can dump millions of metric tons of carbon dioxide into the air for a hundred or so years and there won't be a global warming or harming affect,  you all should go into the garage, start your cars, and breath deeply for just 15 minutes. Then your theories of no effects could be justified by your lack of oxygen to the brain or dead brain cells.


----------



## elektra (Aug 25, 2014)

haissem123 said:


> if you think we can dump millions of metric tons of carbon dioxide into the air for a hundred or so years and there won't be a global warming or harming affect,  you all should go into the garage, start your cars, and breath deeply for just 15 minutes. Then your theories of no effects could be justified by your lack of oxygen to the brain or dead brain cells.



That would be a Carbon Monoxide problem, idiot.


----------



## haissem123 (Aug 25, 2014)

monoxide or dioxide? it's all carbon to me scumbucket. you get the point but you don't want to. your done. now earthquakes shall shake your world for you've let great big air pockets where you took out the oil and gas. dah.. you are the idiot thinking you can toy with mother nature so. poking and proding blindly and all for personal profit of a few. you truly are the idiot.


----------



## haissem123 (Aug 25, 2014)

i hope you enjoy your silly little world burning and collapsing into hell. you deserve it. me too but I'm gonna try not to.


----------



## Darkwind (Aug 25, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> 
> 
> > The most populated state in the country is facing what may be its worst drought in a century of record-keeping. On January 20, the governor of California declared a state of emergency, urging everyone to begin conserving water. Water levels in all but a few reservoirs in the state are less than 50% of capacity, mountains are nearly bare of snow except at the highest elevations, and the fire risk is extreme.  In Nevada, the situation is much the same.
> ...


You think that is bad?  You should see the drought that has been going on in Northern Africa for the past 5 thousand years.  All those effing Egyptians burning fossil fuel and diving SUV's just touring from pyramid to pyramid....


----------



## elektra (Aug 25, 2014)

haissem123 said:


> monoxide or dioxide? it's all carbon to me scumbucket. you get the point but you don't want to. your done. now earthquakes shall shake your world for you've let great big air pockets where you took out the oil and gas. dah.. you are the idiot thinking you can toy with mother nature so. poking and proding blindly and all for personal profit of a few. you truly are the idiot.


It is all carbon to you, uh,  carbon is a simple black powder, not a gas, idiot.


----------



## haissem123 (Aug 25, 2014)

laugh all you want, deniers of the truth, you world is dying and the only way to save it is to get rid of those destroying it. ie.. all you stupid people that think there are no consequences for your stupid actions and or inactions


----------



## hazlnut (Aug 25, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> It's because the Pacific is too cold.  If it would warm up a bit, we'd have an El Nino and lots of storms.   This isn't climate change, this is part of the natural climate.



Go back to your room, the big people are talking.


----------



## hazlnut (Aug 25, 2014)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> ...



No, idiot, they've always been two separate thing.

Global warming is causing climate change.


BTW - just so you don't look stupid again, climate and weather are not the same thing.


----------



## haissem123 (Aug 25, 2014)

carbon is a black powder? I didn't know that. I'll have to google it. hey elektra, you gonna cry when the next big one drops your house? shall I order it so soon? I will have my God destroy your house, pick a date, if you dare.  give me a least a week to petition my God to punish you for example.


----------



## hazlnut (Aug 25, 2014)

Let's see, California supplies 1/5 of the world's food products, so... all the asshole deniers here, enjoy the price hike in food products.

You have no one to blame but your stupid selves for voting Tea Bag.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Aug 25, 2014)

AGWCult needs to inhale more nirtous


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Aug 25, 2014)

When they crap out on the "Pacific Ocean ate my global warming" they'll say the planet Venus ate the warming


----------



## jc456 (Aug 25, 2014)

hazlnut said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...


You're an armageddon guy eh?  You have zero evidence to support such a claim other than your own fear of something because someone said so.  Too funny dude.

here, a link for your review:


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Aug 25, 2014)

This latest excuse for no warming is an enhanced AGWCult Gullibility test. Let's see how people did on this test.

A+ Still waiting for the Nigerian diamond mine to pay returns

A Will parrot back ANYTHING fed into the AGWCult Hive mind no natter how ridiculous

B.  well there are no marks lower than an A in the AGWCult


----------



## Dot Com (Aug 25, 2014)

drought over yet  carbon junkies?


----------



## jc456 (Aug 25, 2014)

Here is a graph of Lake Mead click for link .

Seems consistent with the past two years coming back  up this month. We can wait thirty days and know for sure.


----------



## elektra (Aug 25, 2014)

haissem123 said:


> carbon is a black powder? I didn't know that. I'll have to google it. hey elektra, you gonna cry when the next big one drops your house? shall I order it so soon? I will have my God destroy your house, pick a date, if you dare.  give me a least a week to petition my God to punish you for example.


September 2nd, 2074.


----------



## Crick (Aug 25, 2014)




----------



## Dot Com (Aug 25, 2014)

jc456 said:


> Here is a graph of Lake Mead click for link .
> 
> Seems consistent with the past two years coming back  up this month. We can wait thirty days and know for sure.


from 3 days ago 

Lake Mead Reaches Record Low Water Levels Amid Ongoing Drought - NBC News


----------



## SSDD (Aug 26, 2014)

California is not suffering severe climate change...the residents of california are suffering california's normal climate....actually not even it's normal climate because historically, droughts last for hundreds of years there.


----------



## haissem123 (Aug 26, 2014)

elektra said:


> haissem123 said:
> 
> 
> > carbon is a black powder? I didn't know that. I'll have to google it. hey elektra, you gonna cry when the next big one drops your house? shall I order it so soon? I will have my God destroy your house, pick a date, if you dare.  give me a least a week to petition my God to punish you for example.
> ...


I make it this year if you don't mind. 2014. how about 91114? Will this be the emergency call you wake up to? I will ask for a sign on 91114, as I did 91001 and the next day the towers of babyl fell. It was a 911 call you all didn't answer. will you answer itthis time?


----------



## elektra (Aug 26, 2014)

haissem123 said:


> elektra said:
> 
> 
> > haissem123 said:
> ...



You don't make shit


----------



## elektra (Aug 26, 2014)

Crick said:


>


So, crick ignores facts that show crick knows nothing of which crick posts


----------



## flacaltenn (Aug 26, 2014)

haissem123 said:


> monoxide or dioxide? it's all carbon to me scumbucket. you get the point but you don't want to. your done. now earthquakes shall shake your world for you've let great big air pockets where you took out the oil and gas. dah.. you are the idiot thinking you can toy with mother nature so. poking and proding blindly and all for personal profit of a few. you truly are the idiot.



That's probably WHY you stay out of garages. Carbon DIOXIDE resides in lungs in concentrations close to 10 TIME what's in the air. YOU are more "CO2 TOXIC" than the environment. "It's all dirty carbon to me" .. 

Yup -- that's why you'll understand the issues..


----------



## flacaltenn (Aug 26, 2014)

hazlnut said:


> Let's see, California supplies 1/5 of the world's food products, so... all the asshole deniers here, enjoy the price hike in food products.
> 
> You have no one to blame but your stupid selves for voting Tea Bag.



Would it be too much to ask that you RANT less and THINK more? You have an explanation WHY just a 0.5degC change in Avg Global Temperature could possibly cause a drought in California? And that 1/2 of a degree is over the span of your lifetime. I guarantee that whereever you live -- the temperature at time is NOT LIKELY to be withing 1.5 DegC of "the average"..

Maybe too much to ask eh HazlNuts? the thinking part...


----------



## Crick (Aug 26, 2014)

a slideshow of side-by-side photos illustrating low water levels at several California locations

Striking Photos Of California s Dwindling Water Supplies Photos Image 1 - ABC News


----------



## Rehmani (Aug 27, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> 
> 
> > The most populated state in the country is facing what may be its worst drought in a century of record-keeping. On January 20, the governor of California declared a state of emergency, urging everyone to begin conserving water. Water levels in all but a few reservoirs in the state are less than 50% of capacity, mountains are nearly bare of snow except at the highest elevations, and the fire risk is extreme.  In Nevada, the situation is much the same.
> ...


As we already working for environment, in this regard we should not forget that we have to payback to our mother nature the best thing is our health and juicy dead body and our pet dead bodies and green wast will help to mother nature to survive and feed us in return.
AT LEAST ONE IDENTICAL ACTION FROM ALL MANKIND, SHOULD BURIED, IN ONE WORLD, FOR ONE RACE, CALLED MANKIND.


----------



## Dot Com (Aug 27, 2014)

Water Wars. Anyone read it?


----------



## Skull Pilot (Aug 27, 2014)

Yeah we all know there were never droughts before the advent of global warming


----------



## Youch (Aug 27, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> 
> 
> > The most populated state in the country is facing what may be its worst drought in a century of record-keeping. On January 20, the governor of California declared a state of emergency, urging everyone to begin conserving water. Water levels in all but a few reservoirs in the state are less than 50% of capacity, mountains are nearly bare of snow except at the highest elevations, and the fire risk is extreme.  In Nevada, the situation is much the same.
> ...



Because the entire SW has been a desert since ever since, and the population continues to grow.  It really is simple deduction.  But the fear-mongers will leverage ignorance and the growing population to advance increasing control over the populace.


----------



## Crick (Aug 28, 2014)

Skull Pilot said:


> Yeah we all know there were never droughts before the advent of global warming



That's a brilliant position and I'm sure it will make all the people running out of water realize their complaints were unjustified whining.


----------



## Crick (Aug 28, 2014)




----------



## Skull Pilot (Aug 28, 2014)

Crick said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah we all know there were never droughts before the advent of global warming
> ...


That doesn't make my statement any less true now does it?


----------



## Crick (Aug 28, 2014)




----------



## Crick (Aug 28, 2014)

Skull Pilot said:


> Crick said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...



We've had ocean waves before.  Does that mean we should not protect people from tsunamics?

We've had snow before.  Does that mean we should not protect people from massive blizzards or extreme low temperatures?

We've had heat waves before.  Does that mean we should not protect people from rising temperatures?

We've had wind before.  Does that mean we should not protect people from tornadoes, hurricanes or typhoons?

Your logic is infantile.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Aug 28, 2014)

Crick said:


>


So? It's happened before it will happen again.

The way you sheep talk you'd think there has never been a dry spell in the west before the last decade


----------



## Crick (Aug 28, 2014)

There has never been a rate of CO2 increase like the last century's in the last 65 million years.

There has never been a rate of temperature increase like the last century's in the history of the human race.

But you think its okay.  Got it.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Aug 28, 2014)

Crick said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Crick said:
> ...


 A tsunami is not a regular ocean wave.  And until you can predict the causes of tsunamis you really can't protect anyone from them now can you?

And really snow is no big deal. And tell me how do you protect people from snow?  You can't stop it. 

And pray tell how do you protect people from rising temperatures?  Remember that we are only talking about a less than 2 degree C rise in temps over the next 100 years or so here.  That's hardly a catastrophe.

And please let me know how you plan to protect people from tornadoes since smarter people than you can't seem to do it


----------



## Skull Pilot (Aug 28, 2014)

Crick said:


> There has never been a CO2 increase like the last century's in the last 65 million years.
> 
> There has never been a temperature increase like the last century's in the history of the human race.
> 
> But you think its okay.  Got it.


I just don't think a warming of a couple degrees C over the next 100 years is a catastrophe that must be met by government control of our lives as you do


----------



## Stephanie (Aug 28, 2014)

California is history and on it's way to become a thread world state.  and I do believe a large part of it is DESERT.

so dots can you explain what all this extreme climate change is and how it's affecting them


----------



## Youch (Aug 28, 2014)

Crick said:


> There has never been a rate of CO2 increase like the last century's in the last 65 million years.
> 
> There has never been a rate of temperature increase like the last century's in the history of the human race.
> 
> But you think its okay.  Got it.



That hockey stick was dis-proven and I even tricked you into admitting it in another thread.  Massive spikes in CO2 have occurred prior to the last century. 

What, you want to ban volcanoes and cows now?  Come on....


----------



## jc456 (Aug 28, 2014)

Crick said:


> There has never been a rate of CO2 increase like the last century's in the last 65 million years.
> 
> There has never been a rate of temperature increase like the last century's in the history of the human race.
> 
> But you think its okay.  Got it.


----------



## SSDD (Aug 28, 2014)

jc456 said:


> Crick said:
> 
> 
> > There has never been a rate of CO2 increase like the last century's in the last 65 million years.
> ...



Notice he confines his time period to an ice age....low CO2 levels during an ice age...who would have thought?....prior to the beginning of the ice age we are still in, CO2 levels were in excess of 1000ppm.


----------



## flacaltenn (Aug 28, 2014)

I've been watching the "drought monitor" for Cali. It's really a brain dead system of actually measuring drought.  Because it's been changing all summer long and declaring deeper and deeper droughts --- EVEN THO

You can almost GUARANDAMTEE that it will never rain in California from May to September. That represents a 5 or 6 month LAG in officially declaring an emergency -- if in deed you needed to. 

As far as PREPARING for drought -- California CLOSED several desalinization plants that SHOULD be converted to solar and reopened. 
But it's not high on their list of priorities. Seeing as how Gerry Brown is busy trying to attract MILLIONS of new poor Latin American immigrants to his state. Won't have much dough left to actually let them drink..


----------



## Rehmani (Aug 28, 2014)

Crick said:


> Crick said:
> 
> 
> > We have to fix up our habits before....................................................





Crick said:


>


----------



## westwall (Aug 30, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> California drought Maps showing severity of drought in California and the West - San Jose Mercury News





So what.  You act as if it is something new and never before seen.  As has been pointed out to you, it is common as dirt.


----------



## Crick (Aug 30, 2014)

Look at those side-by-side photos I posted a few days ago: normal water levels next to current, drought water levels.  Note the trees.  That would be trees that don't grow overnight.  Those trees look to be easily 30-50 years old.  And they all stop dead at the higher water level.  Hmmm...


----------



## SSDD (Aug 30, 2014)

Normal water levels in a man made lake in the desert? ?  ARE YOU KIDDING? 


Crick said:


> Look at those side-by-side photos I posted a few days ago: normal water levels next to current, drought water levels.  Note the trees.  That would be trees that don't grow overnight.  Those trees look to be easily 30-50 years old.  And they all stop dead at the higher water level.  Hmmm...


----------



## Crick (Aug 30, 2014)

Oh, you noticed that, eh?

The water shortage, as illustrated by those photos, is severe and unprecedented (according to California authorities) in over a century.

Look, I'm not going to say that the drought in California is a direct result of global warming.  I will say the two are very likely connected and that as warming continues, we are very likely to see more and more droughts of greater and greater intensity and duration.  Just like Katrina and Sandy and Haiyan and the three other Super Typhoons in a season that's not done yet.  

It's dumb to say that this storm or that drought or this flood or this cold spell is the direct result of global warming.  But it's far, far dumber to say that they're completely unrelated.


----------



## Youch (Aug 30, 2014)

Crick said:


> Oh, you noticed that, eh?
> 
> The water shortage, as illustrated by those photos, is severe and unprecedented (according to California authorities) in over a century.
> 
> ...



NO.  It has to do with massive population increases in a DESERT!!!!  Jesus Christ, this is soooOOoooo obvious....


----------



## Crick (Aug 30, 2014)

Really.  A massive population increase has caused the rain to stop falling?  Care to explain that one?


----------



## Youch (Aug 30, 2014)

Crick said:


> Really.  A massive population increase has caused the rain to stop falling?  Care to explain that one?



Why would I explain your conclusion pole vaulting? 

Heck, you've already proven yourself to ignore data that conflicts with your beliefs...

Do you deny the massive population increase?
Do you deny the SW is a desert?

You cannot.

Yet, we are supposed to believe your contention that, if only some rain would fall in the SW, everything would be copacetic?

Let's address your specific position...are you saying that if rain doesn't increase at the same rate as demand for potable water, then global warming is the chief concern? 

Come on dude...bring it....


----------



## SSDD (Aug 31, 2014)

Crick said:


> Oh, you noticed that, eh?
> 
> The water shortage, as illustrated by those photos, is severe and unprecedented (according to California authorities) in over a century.
> 
> ...


Actually the high water levels are what is unprecedented...the low water level is just business as usual in the desert. .

As usual, honesty from you is apparently just not possible.


----------



## Crick (Aug 31, 2014)

The high water levels (in the artificial lake) were produced with native rainfall and were maintained long enough to grow most of a forest at that line.  What data do you have to show rainfalls were high all those years?


----------



## Dot Com (Aug 31, 2014)

Crick said:


> Really.  A massive population increase has caused the rain to stop falling?  Care to explain that one?


This ought to be good


----------



## Crick (Aug 31, 2014)

Youch said:


> Crick said:
> 
> 
> > Really.  A massive population increase has caused the rain to stop falling?  Care to explain that one?
> ...



On the maps below, in areas where the rainfall was normal over the given time period, the maps would be GREEN.

CalClim California Climate Data Archive





















See a lot of green?

Baseline averages are from the PRISM dataset, 1895 to present.


----------



## Crick (Aug 31, 2014)

Youch said:
			
		

> Yet, we are supposed to believe your contention that, if only some rain would fall in the SW, everything would be copacetic?
> 
> Let's address your specific position...are you saying that if rain doesn't increase at the same rate as demand for potable water, then global warming is the chief concern?



My contention is that the chance of droughts like this occurring increases with increasing global warming.  Precipitation in the western US is strongly subject to the ENSO cycles whose timing and magnitude have been affected by global warming.  Whatever the cause of this drought, there exists a very high likelihood that due to global warming, we will see more of these in the future than we have seen in the past.  THAT is my position.  Your attempt to mischaracterize my position in your second paragraph was a pathetic attempt at making a straw man: it is supported by NOTHING I have said here.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Aug 31, 2014)

Crick said:


> Youch said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Can you predict where these next drought will occur or are your models only accurate retroactively?

After Katrina the AGWCult predicted Cat 5 Hurricanes making landfall would be a common occurrence.


----------



## Crick (Aug 31, 2014)

Can YOU predict where the next drought will occur?  You have access to the same data as do I.

You have seen predictions of increased storm intensity.  Taking into account the hiatus in surface warming, caused primarily by cold water being driven to the surface, what we have seen is no surprise.  However, that energy won't stay there forever.  The Pacific saw a Cat 4 storm two weeks before the season began and the pending El Nino hasn't really gotten started.  Ignoring the heat buildup in the oceans is a perilous mistake.  Ask the families of the more than 6,300 people KILLED by Typhoon Haiyan, 3.5 TIMES the number killed by Katrina.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Aug 31, 2014)

Crick said:


> Can YOU predict where the next drought will occur?  You have access to the same data as do I.
> 
> You have seen predictions of increased storm intensity.  Taking into account the hiatus in surface warming, caused primarily by cold water being driven to the surface, what we have seen is no surprise.  However, that energy won't stay there forever.  The Pacific saw a Cat 4 storm two weeks before the season began and the pending El Nino hasn't really gotten started.  Ignoring the heat buildup in the oceans is a perilous mistake.  Ask the families of the more than 6,300 people KILLED by Typhoon Haiyan, 3.5 TIMES the number killed by Katrina.



I'm not stupid or arrogant enough to make those predictions.  Your "Science" and "Predictions" are nothing more than pointing at the Weather Channel and saying, "See that, Denier?!! ManMade Global Warming!!"


----------



## Crick (Aug 31, 2014)

That would be incorrect.  My prediction is based on the simple observation that high sea surface temperatures make for more powerful storms.  Raise the world's temperature and weather will become more intense.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Aug 31, 2014)

Crick said:


> That would be incorrect.  My prediction is based on the simple observation that high sea surface temperatures make for more powerful storms.  Raise the world's temperature and weather will become more intense.



Show me one time how a 120PPM increase in CO2 does that and you're on your way to real science


----------



## Crick (Aug 31, 2014)

Did you take my suggestion to look into the thread entitled "CO2 Experiments Posted Here"?

Is there any particular reason you keep jumping around from topic to topic?  Do you accept that higher sea surface temperatures will provide more energy for hurricanes and typhoons?


----------



## flacaltenn (Aug 31, 2014)

Crick said:


> Really.  A massive population increase has caused the rain to stop falling?  Care to explain that one?




Everyone can see that you and Dottie put very little effort into UNDERSTANDING precipt in Cali.. Because you assert that THIS TIME "the rain stopped falling" is caused by your GW Bad JuJu.. And you wont' let any other possibilities enter your idea drought parched brains..






Since most of storable water comes from snowpack, you also need this.






So here's one of the Environment Forum threads that you always complain about.. You know -- the ones that have NOTHING TO DO with Global Warming.. So why the hell are you still here???


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Aug 31, 2014)

Crick said:


> That would be incorrect.  My prediction is based on the simple observation that high sea surface temperatures make for more powerful storms.  Raise the world's temperature and weather will become more intense.



Well good thing the world's temperature has been the same these past 15-20 years


----------



## boedicca (Aug 31, 2014)

CA's water problem is due to lack of investment in storage and distribution infrastructure for the past few decades.  While the population has more than doubled, we've actually lost capacity due to enviro efforts to have dams destroyed.

This is naturally arid country which was able to be used for agriculture due to dams, reservoirs, and irrigation.   We need reservoirs to store water during wet years.   

Also, the El Nino has been very inactive for the past few years.  We're expecting a weak one this winter; should result in some rain, but not enough.


----------



## Crick (Aug 31, 2014)

The water problem is worsened by California's inadequate (in our 20-20 hindsight) preparations.  The shortage of water is from an actual drought: an unusual reduction in the amount of precipitation for a period now lasting several years.


----------



## Tom Sweetnam (Aug 31, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> We had a terrible drought a few years ago.  It was so bad, there was some talk of building desalinization plants along the ocean.  Then it rained and the plan was scrapped, as if we would never again have another drought.
> 
> The climate is the same.  It is just fine as it is.  We have too many people living in California so droughts have a much more severe effect than it did say in the 50s or even 60s.


 
Yep. I'm a native of Californian though I live in Colorado now...in one of America's true deserts, the San Luis Valley. Long ago, California needed to build additional reservoirs and aqueducts. Too bad the Romans aren't around anymore. They'd show us how to do it efficiently. 99% of California's rainfall and snow melt-off ends up draining off to the ocean. California needs to capture some of that fresh water and store it in reservoirs.

The most dangerous portent regarding our ongoing drought in the Southwest, is the fact that Hoover Damn's reservoir is at its lowest level ever. Add the fact that our White House moron just agreed to send Mexico 30% more water from our common rivers...this in the middle of one of the worst droughts in two decades.

Anyway, there's a great book on all this, written more than two decades ago by Marc Reisner, called 'Cadillac Desert'. PBS adapted it into a pretty decent video documentary. The Amazon blurb: "Beautifully written and meticulously researched."—_St. Louis Post-Dispatch_. This updated study of the economics, politics, and ecology of water covers more than a century of public and private desert reclamation in the American West." You can get it on Kindle. It's a fascinating read if you live in the Southwest.


----------



## Crick (Aug 31, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> Because you assert that THIS TIME "the rain stopped falling" is caused by your GW Bad JuJu.



Why don't you go and find the post where I said that.


----------



## Dot Com (Aug 31, 2014)

boedicca said:


> CA's water problem is due to lack of investment in storage and distribution infrastructure for the past few decades.  While the population has more than doubled, we've actually lost capacity due to enviro efforts to have dams destroyed.
> 
> This is naturally arid country which was able to be used for agriculture due to dams, reservoirs, and irrigation.   We need reservoirs to store water during wet years.
> 
> Also, the El Nino has been very inactive for the past few years.  We're expecting a weak one this winter; should result in some rain, but not enough.


link?


----------



## flacaltenn (Aug 31, 2014)

Crick said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Because you assert that THIS TIME "the rain stopped falling" is caused by your GW Bad JuJu.
> ...



Post #303 for one you dishonest bozo......


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Aug 31, 2014)

Crick said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Because you assert that THIS TIME "the rain stopped falling" is caused by your GW Bad JuJu.
> ...



Are you just plain fucking nuts????  You just said that AGW causes it!!!


----------



## flacaltenn (Aug 31, 2014)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Crick said:
> 
> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...



If it wasn't about GW -- Crick would insult the thread and never participate. Empirical evidence does suggest "nuts" is a possible diagnosis.


----------



## Crick (Sep 1, 2014)

I said "_My contention is that the chance of droughts like this occurring increases with increasing global warming. Precipitation in the western US is strongly subject to the ENSO cycles whose timing and magnitude have been affected by global warming. Whatever the cause of this drought, there exists a very high likelihood that due to global warming, we will see more of these in the future than we have seen in the past. THAT is my position._"

Are you under the impression that pre-industrial rainfall in southern california was so low that it's not possible for the area to suffer a drought?


----------



## jc456 (Sep 2, 2014)

Crick said:


> The high water levels (in the artificial lake) were produced with native rainfall and were maintained long enough to grow most of a forest at that line.  What data do you have to show rainfalls were high all those years?


Dude you are truly naive.  You're hilarious to follow on here.  you still know nothing.  And admit as such especially with this one.  so how smart can you be, when the water table was rising what was the population of the area and now 100 years later is the same population there or was there an increase?  Come on now it isn't that hard of a question I know you have it in you.


----------



## jc456 (Sep 2, 2014)

Crick said:


> There has never been a rate of CO2 increase like the last century's in the last 65 million years.
> 
> There has never been a rate of temperature increase like the last century's in the history of the human race.
> 
> But you think its okay.  Got it.


 nothing again.  mumbo jumbo!


----------



## jc456 (Sep 2, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> Crick said:
> 
> 
> > Really.  A massive population increase has caused the rain to stop falling?  Care to explain that one?
> ...


  So, you're saying that the population hasn't increased in the desert there as well?  So you too are naive and know nothing?  It's funny how you all stick together. You should go play with Crick he's waiting.


----------



## jc456 (Sep 2, 2014)

Crick said:


> Youch said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Based on what evidence?  Again, you have nothing. You just keep regurgitating your nothingness. Give it up, it ain't working.


----------



## Dot Com (Sep 2, 2014)

shits gettin' real now deniers: Groundwater California s big unknown NOAA Climate.gov


----------



## jc456 (Sep 3, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> shits gettin' real now deniers: Groundwater California s big unknown NOAA Climate.gov


What's your point?


----------



## Dot Com (Sep 3, 2014)

^ why do you bother posting in my threads?  We won't complain if you migrate away to one of the social threads. Seriously


----------



## jc456 (Sep 3, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> ^ why do you bother posting in my threads?  We won't complain if you migrate away to one of the social threads. Seriously


 Because more than you post in it.  See a message board is posting against another, and another and so on and so on.  And when junk is published in a thread it must be pointed out. You see some of California is a desert.  And believe it or not, has been a desert for longer than you and I have been alive.  So you posting about it being in a drought is not new to the  state.  So therefore, I don't get your point.  When you don't provide one or any explanation on where you're headed with a post, expect a post to ask the point.  Hence, my post.


----------



## flacaltenn (Sep 3, 2014)

Crick said:


> I said "_My contention is that the chance of droughts like this occurring increases with increasing global warming. Precipitation in the western US is strongly subject to the ENSO cycles whose timing and magnitude have been affected by global warming. Whatever the cause of this drought, there exists a very high likelihood that due to global warming, we will see more of these in the future than we have seen in the past. THAT is my position._"
> 
> Are you under the impression that pre-industrial rainfall in southern california was so low that it's not possible for the area to suffer a drought?



This makes no sense at all as a question. And I don't even CARE about an explanation of what Crick was ACTUALLY thinking. All I want to know is why Dottie "liked" it..


----------



## Crick (Sep 3, 2014)

A fan of informed objectivity?


----------



## jc456 (Sep 4, 2014)

Crick said:


> A fan of informed objectivity?


He got such a laugh out of it he just had to like it! good comedy sometimes brings that out of people.  Objectivity, naw you ain't got any of that.  All you have is NoNseNe.....................


----------



## Crick (Sep 4, 2014)

Please explain why you believe my explanation of my position regarding drought and global warming is comical.



			
				Crick said:
			
		

> I said "_My contention is that the chance of droughts like this occurring increases with increasing global warming. Precipitation in the western US is strongly subject to the ENSO cycles whose timing and magnitude have been affected by global warming. Whatever the cause of this drought, there exists a very high likelihood that due to global warming, we will see more of these in the future than we have seen in the past. THAT is my position._"


----------



## jc456 (Sep 4, 2014)

Crick said:


> Please explain why you believe my explanation of my position regarding drought and global warming is comical.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Why?

Why don't you first show me the experiment that proves adding 120 PPM of CO2 does anything to temperatures?


----------



## Crick (Sep 4, 2014)

Because I have already done so more than once.  I think I should start demanding you show us the experiment in which it fails.


----------



## Dot Com (Sep 4, 2014)

Crick said:


> Because I have already done so more than once.  I think I should start demanding you show us the experiment in which it fails.


^ that

I already asked the denier troll to leave the thread if he can't provide any sourced material NOT from the Mercator Center.


----------



## flacaltenn (Sep 8, 2014)

Ha.. I love it when it rains in California hard enough to mask out all the wining... 






Drought reports are gonna get interesting now thru Thanksgiving..


----------



## Dot Com (Sep 8, 2014)

ummm..... Theres a hurricane over on the SW coast. Nice try though


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Sep 8, 2014)

Yep, sever climate change that changes every 7 years - as regular as clockwork...

Fucking cultist morons...


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Sep 8, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> ummm..... Theres a hurricane over on the SW coast. Nice try though



Ummm, it's an El Nino year, moron.

6 years of drought -  1 year of flood - welcome to California.


----------



## Crick (Sep 8, 2014)

The ENSO is not that regular, certainly not lately.


----------



## Billy_Bob (Sep 8, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> 
> 
> > The most populated state in the country is facing what may be its worst drought *in a century of record-keeping*. On January 20, the governor of California declared a state of emergency, urging everyone to begin conserving water. Water levels in all but a few reservoirs in the state are less than 50% of capacity, mountains are nearly bare of snow except at the highest elevations, and the fire risk is extreme.  In Nevada, the situation is much the same.
> ...



In bold above are the key words...  According to the paleoclimate records this type of drought hits that region about once every 130 years..  IT IS NORMAL AND CYCLICAL!

Why are people so freaking gullible....?


----------



## Billy_Bob (Sep 8, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > The idea that individual action can control the climate, or storms, or rainfall, or any natural occurrence is something that one would expect from a savage culture.   Something close to being prehistoric.   Maybe we should sacrifice a few virgins to the rain god.
> ...



Please show me how you stopped natural variation and induced only man made warming.  The rates of the last two warming cycles are statistically insignificantly different from each other.  Thus Natural variation is the driver. Until you can quantify, and show how you did it, the so called man induced forcing, there is none. The last 17 years 11 months disprove your ideology and falsify the premise.


----------



## Crick (Sep 8, 2014)

You act as if warming and cooling takes place idiopathically.  That's not what "natural" means.  The state of the Earth's climate does not change without cause.  The primary (not sole) cause for the warming of the last 150 years - of which the last 15 qualifies as internal variability - is the greenhouse effect acting on anthropogenic GHGs and deforestation for human developmeclesnt.  The sun has not provided sufficient increased energy to account for the warming we've seen.  Orbital cycles would simply alter TSI, so that's out.  Solar spectrum?  TSI is wideband.  Cosmic rays acting on cloud cover?  Out.  Misinterpreted cloud effects?  Out.  Anything else?


----------



## Billy_Bob (Sep 8, 2014)

Crick said:


> You act as if warming and cooling takes place idiopathically.  That's not what "natural" means.  The state of the Earth's climate does not change without cause.  The primary (not sole) cause for the warming of the last 150 years - of which the last 15 qualifies as internal variability - is the greenhouse effect acting on anthropogenic GHGs and deforestation for human developmeclesnt.  The sun has not provided sufficient increased energy to account for the warming we've seen.  Orbital cycles would simply alter TSI, so that's out.  Solar spectrum?  TSI is wideband.  Cosmic rays acting on cloud cover?  Out.  Misinterpreted cloud effects?  Out.  Anything else?



BULL SHIT!

Total Solar Output (Irradience) has not changed more than 2 degrees in over 25 years. Tilt and precision of the earth has changed.  Distance from the Sun has changed as we enter the elongated section of our orbital path.  And you obviously haven't a clue how our convective cooling system works on earth or how certain gases affect it.

All of your "outs" are crap because the science is incomplete.  what is it with alarmists who do not want to do the science just force everyone under their thumbs to control them...


----------



## flacaltenn (Sep 8, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> ummm..... Theres a hurricane over on the SW coast. Nice try though



So What Dottie ?? You making up the "drought" rules while we play ??


----------



## flacaltenn (Sep 8, 2014)

Crick said:


> You act as if warming and cooling takes place idiopathically.  That's not what "natural" means.  The state of the Earth's climate does not change without cause.  The primary (not sole) cause for the warming of the last 150 years - of which the last 15 qualifies as internal variability - is the greenhouse effect acting on anthropogenic GHGs and deforestation for human developmeclesnt.  The sun has not provided sufficient increased energy to account for the warming we've seen.  Orbital cycles would simply alter TSI, so that's out.  Solar spectrum?  TSI is wideband.  Cosmic rays acting on cloud cover?  Out.  Misinterpreted cloud effects?  Out.  Anything else?



Oh I love me a good Crickism Jimminy... 

"Solar Spectrum? TSI is Wideband."  Just shows you had NO CLUE what I been telling you for a couple years or what BillieBob was presenting on the other thread. You should actually be GRADUATING with an undergrad cert in Climate Science by now -- and INSTEAD -- you haven't bothered to learn a thing.. 

No wonder you buy the simplistic fairy tales --- because you SUCK at science and physics. After explaining this to you SEVERAL TIMES -- you still don't get the significance of shifting a minute amount of incoming solar irradiance from one band slightly to another. The result of even TRIVIAL redistribution of solar energy could either TORCH this planet or turn it into an iceball in your lifetime. Have a nice day.. 

That's the only approach to folks who don't WANT to learn science and physics..


----------



## Crick (Sep 8, 2014)

Speaking of simplistic fairy tales, you still seem to want 1 watt to do the work of 10.


----------



## flacaltenn (Sep 8, 2014)

Crick said:


> Speaking of simplistic fairy tales, you still seem to want 1 watt to do the work of 10.



1W/m2 at the surface would MORE than explain the kind of impulse warming that we got. Don't NEED 10.. Keep trolling my Cricket..


----------



## Dot Com (Sep 8, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > ummm..... Theres a hurricane over on the SW coast. Nice try though
> ...


^ a weather = climate adherent  You deniers are a hoot


----------



## Billy_Bob (Sep 8, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...



Short Term Climate = localized weather
Long Term Weather = Climate

You alarmist are so.......


----------



## Crick (Sep 8, 2014)

This fella say "Nope"

http://www.acrim.com/Reference Files/Sun & Global Warming_GRL_2006.pdf

So does this fella

Reconstruction of solar total irradiance since 1700 from the surface magnetic fl

and this fella

Reconstruction of solar irradiance variations in cycles 21 23 based on surface magnetic fields A A

These two say the sun has been cooling us off for the last 35 years

Global temperature evolution 1979 2010 - Abstract - Environmental Research Letters - IOPscience

So, where are the studies that tell us your spectral fears are justified and that such changes have taken place and are responsible for the observed warming?


----------



## flacaltenn (Sep 8, 2014)

Crick said:


> This fella say "Nope"
> 
> http://www.acrim.com/Reference Files/Sun & Global Warming_GRL_2006.pdf
> 
> ...




Pull me a quote FROM ANY Of those references that discusses SPECTRAL SHIFTS of Solar Irradiance data and we can chat. Otherwise you're wasting my time and yours.. There has been a step of about 1W/m2 since the Maunder Minimum and we are STILL sitting at the relative high of that step -- but THAT has nothing to do with your "wideband" observation. And the ridicule that comes with that..


----------



## Billy_Bob (Sep 8, 2014)

Crick said:


> This fella say "Nope"
> 
> http://www.acrim.com/Reference Files/Sun & Global Warming_GRL_2006.pdf
> 
> ...



You post several papers which only deal with spectral output of the sun in general. But you do not realize that only since about 1992 have we had the satellites and technology in place to observe and document it. We've been cooling since 1998. that is the time a spectral shift occurred. TSI did not change and that was the gauge during this time frame of solar activity. That is what they observed. What changed is a shift in how the sun emits its energy not just the total energy.

Please stop... you are clueless..


----------



## flacaltenn (Sep 8, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...



Your are the moron whining about a 2 or 3 year drought as THO it is climate change.
Aren't you?   What is the Title of this POS?


----------



## flacaltenn (Sep 8, 2014)

Crick said:


> This fella say "Nope"
> 
> http://www.acrim.com/Reference Files/Sun & Global Warming_GRL_2006.pdf
> 
> ...



You are truly a turdish fool to be tossing up papers that are irrelevent to the topic of Solar SPECTRAL shifts. But to boot -- NOT READING those papers could be fatal to any reputation that you have left.

From the FIRST cite in the ACRIM paper...


> Our findings, summarized in Figure 2, show the compar-
> ison between NH temperature reconstruction for the past
> 400 years and the phenomenological solar temperature sig-
> nature obtained with the smooth curves of the TSI proxy
> ...



But NOT A WORD in that paper about how to FRY or FREEZE the earth by just MILD shifts in solar SPECTRUM.. Just give it up.. Go back to your 97% malarkey..

What that paper CONFIRMS -- is how the IPCC CONSTANTLY LIES about the relevance of TSI changes since 1750.. Thanks for the reference Jimminy.. Think you'll remember that next time you pull up that shitty IPCC "forcing" slide? (nope).


----------



## Dot Com (Sep 13, 2014)

Not One Drop How Long Will California Survive Life Without Water - NBC News


----------



## Dot Com (Sep 27, 2014)

The Dry Land


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Sep 27, 2014)

Crick said:


> You act as if warming and cooling takes place idiopathically.  That's not what "natural" means.  The state of the Earth's climate does not change without cause.  The primary (not sole) cause for the warming of the last 150 years - of which the last 15 qualifies as internal variability - is the greenhouse effect acting on anthropogenic GHGs and deforestation for human developmeclesnt.  The sun has not provided sufficient increased energy to account for the warming we've seen.  Orbital cycles would simply alter TSI, so that's out.  Solar spectrum?  TSI is wideband.  Cosmic rays acting on cloud cover?  Out.  Misinterpreted cloud effects?  Out.  Anything else?



You've eliminated all the variables except for a wisp of CO2, but you don't have a lab experiment show how a wisp of CO2 raises temperature...because there are too many variables


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Sep 27, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> Not One Drop How Long Will California Survive Life Without Water - NBC News



CA = local, not global


----------



## elektra (Sep 27, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> Not One Drop How Long Will California Survive Life Without Water - NBC News



How come all the Global Warming nuts lie? As its raining in California, after record setting rain in August, they find a spot where they are suffering poor Democrat/Government planning. 

California is mostly desert


> *Rain brings relief - and flood threat - to Calif. fires*
> Trevor Hughes, USATODAY4:11 p.m. EDT September 25, 2014
> 48TWEETLINKEDIN 2COMMENTEMAILMORE
> SEATTLE — A major storm is bringing temporary relief -- but also a flash flood threat -- to California and parts of the West struggling through a devastating wildfire season, giving firefighters the upper hand in battling blazes across the region.
> ...


----------



## Dot Com (Sep 28, 2014)

^ weather is not climate.  Glad to help


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Sep 28, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> ^ weather is not climate. Glad to help



Correct.

A drought in the summer is weather, not climate


----------



## Dot Com (Sep 28, 2014)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > ^ weather is not climate. Glad to help
> ...


 the drought has only been going on for one summer Frank1400PennsylvaniaAve?


----------



## skookerasbil (Sep 28, 2014)

nobody thinks the drought in Ca is linked to climate change except for the hyper-AGW k00ks.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Sep 28, 2014)

Crick said:


> This fella say "Nope"
> 
> http://www.acrim.com/Reference Files/Sun & Global Warming_GRL_2006.pdf
> 
> ...



Warmers 1990: The Sun has no effect on climate

Warmers after 2 decades of no Warming


Dot Com said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...



CA is only one of our 57 states, so how does that make it "global"?

Or is it that the AGWCult is reduced to pointing to any story on the Weather Channel and shrieking, "MANMADE CLIMATE DISRUPTION WARMING CHANGE!!!"

Why are science labs so cruel to your "Theory"?


----------



## Dot Com (Sep 28, 2014)

What is the deniers theory? OH!!! Thats right!!! They don't have one.


----------



## flacaltenn (Sep 28, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...



It goes on EVERY SUMMER in California.. Why is this so hard a concept for you? It only rains/snows in California for about 6 or 7 months out of the year --- EVER !!! And not very much rain south of the Golden Gate.. 

Why then did you pick the title of this thread to be about Climate Change if this statistical anomaly is only a couple years old Dotty?


----------



## flacaltenn (Sep 28, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> What is the deniers theory? OH!!! Thats right!!! They don't have one.



Dont need one. YOU have to defend yours. That's how this science thingy works. If your theory is broken -- that means no 5 to 8 degC by 2100 and there is NO PROBLEM TO SOLVE...


----------



## Billy_Bob (Sep 28, 2014)

Another DOT.COM thread bites the dust... DOT has no clue how long natural cycles last and that this current level of dry is well within normal variation for a cold ocean flow and cooling world. In fact the ocean current alone would do what we are seeing now according to the geological records of the area.

I find it very disingenuous of not only NBC but ABC to not do their home work and find out that this pattern has been seen over and over for thousands of years. But then again, propaganda is their game any more just like DOT's.


----------



## IlarMeilyr (Sep 28, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> 
> 
> > The most populated state in the country is facing what may be its worst drought in a century of record-keeping. On January 20, the governor of California declared a state of emergency, urging everyone to begin conserving water. Water levels in all but a few reservoirs in the state are less than 50% of capacity, mountains are nearly bare of snow except at the highest elevations, and the fire risk is extreme.  In Nevada, the situation is much the same.
> ...



California is suffering from nothing of the sort.

It is suffering.

But what it is suffering under is a perfectly natural periodic fucking drought.


----------



## Billy_Bob (Sep 28, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> It goes on EVERY SUMMER in California.. Why is this so hard a concept for you? It only rains/snows in California for about 6 or 7 months out of the year --- EVER !!! And not very much rain south of the Golden Gate..
> 
> Why then did you pick the title of this thread to be about Climate Change if *this statistical anomaly is only a couple years old Dotty?*



And can be shown to directly related to the cold phase of the PDO...


----------



## Dot Com (Sep 28, 2014)

As the California drought enters its fourth year are we doing enough to conserve water - San Jose Mercury News

4th straight year of drought. I have to say that if I Saw someone watering their lawn when they weren't supposed to I'd be inclined to punch them in the face


----------



## IlarMeilyr (Sep 28, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> As the California drought enters its fourth year are we doing enough to conserve water - San Jose Mercury News
> 
> 4th straight year of drought. I have to say that if I Saw someone watering their lawn when they weren't supposed to I'd be inclined to punch them in the face




but but but lolberals LOVE their green lawns.


----------



## Dot Com (Sep 28, 2014)

No. Theres something called 'desert lawns' out that way. Put "desert lawns" in a google image search.


----------



## IlarMeilyr (Sep 28, 2014)

It aint "green."  Lolberals and pogressives (not a typo) WORSHIP "green."


----------



## Dot Com (Sep 28, 2014)

heres a DIY desert lawn process: Replace lawn with drought-tolerant options - San Jose Mercury News


----------



## flacaltenn (Sep 28, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> As the California drought enters its fourth year are we doing enough to conserve water - San Jose Mercury News
> 
> 4th straight year of drought. I have to say that if I Saw someone watering their lawn when they weren't supposed to I'd be inclined to punch them in the face



One place I had in Cali -- had a red lava rock front "lawn".. Ugly as sin.
That's why I'm happier in green Hillbilly Hollywood.. Even with the chiggers and moles.

 Neighbors never punched me out. I had the only pool in the neighborhood..


----------



## skookerasbil (Sep 29, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> ^ weather is not climate.  Glad to help





This thread is gay s0n.......

Last weekend in the LA Times *SCIENCE *section >>>

*West Coast warming linked to naturally occurring changes*


West Coast warming linked to naturally occurring changes - LA Times



You stoopid fuck!!!!


----------



## skookerasbil (Sep 29, 2014)

[URL=http://s42.photobucket.com/user/baldaltima/media/gigantor11.gif.html]
	
[/URL]

sack kicking ftmfw!!!!


----------



## Dot Com (Oct 9, 2014)

Californians make big cuts in water usage report says


----------



## Old Rocks (Oct 9, 2014)

U.S. Drought Monitor U.S. Drought Portal

Almost all of California still in exceptional drought. One third of Oregon in extreme drought. All most all of Oregon abnormally dry or worse, over 1/2 of Washington abnormally dry or worse. Nearly all of Idaho, Nevada, and Arizona abnormally dry or worse.

By spring, if this trend continues, all of us on the West Coast will be making big cuts in the use of electricity, also. Will be real thankful for the increase that we have seen in wind capacity.


----------



## jc456 (Oct 9, 2014)

Today's paper from the Desert Sun:

In this week's report, Mark Svoboda of the National Drought Mitigation Center also put California's 2014 water year into context:
"With the 2014 Water Year in the books now, the National Weather Service in Sacramento issued some preliminary numbers that help put this drought into perspective. The Sacramento Water Supply Index (WSI) came in as the 4th driest water year in terms of runoff in the 109-year period dating back to 1906. In case you're interested, 1977 was the worst year, followed by 1924 and 1931, respectively."


----------



## Kosh (Oct 9, 2014)

WOW, living in a desert, arid area will produce little rain?

Yet the AGW cult will blame it on climate change..


----------



## jc456 (Oct 9, 2014)

Kosh said:


> WOW, living in a desert, arid area will produce little rain?
> 
> Yet the AGW cult will blame it on climate change..


 Well, my only question is, what climate change?  If this year is only fourth, and two of the worst were over fifty years ago, by their own definition, the climate hasn't changed. hmmm, like we've been saying and the song by Three Dog Night....Liar!!!!!!!!Liar, liar..


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Oct 9, 2014)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Correct.
> 
> A drought in the summer is weather, not climate



A drought in California is climate. Much like a tornado in Oklahoma.

But neither one are :"change."


----------



## jc456 (Oct 9, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Correct.
> ...


 A tornado in Oklahoma is weather.  It is part of a 'weather system' that actually moves.  Not a climate system.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Oct 9, 2014)

jc456 said:


> A tornado in Oklahoma is weather.  It is part of a 'weather system' that actually moves.  Not a climate system.



The Climate of Oklahoma makes tornadoes a natural part of the weather.

The Climate of California makes droughts a natural part of the weather.


----------



## jc456 (Oct 9, 2014)

can't have a tornado without a weather system.  Sorry.

Happens over water all the time.


----------



## PredFan (Oct 9, 2014)

Meh. California is half Mexican and the other have is left wing moonbat. Who cares. Meanwhile here in Florida, we are having the best weather ever.

Love me some climate change baby!


----------



## jc456 (Oct 9, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > A tornado in Oklahoma is weather.  It is part of a 'weather system' that actually moves.  Not a climate system.
> ...


 BTW, are you saying that California can never have a tornado?


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Oct 9, 2014)

jc456 said:


> BTW, are you saying that California can never have a tornado?



What?

Are you on crack?


----------



## jc456 (Oct 9, 2014)

I love this Forum!!!!


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Oct 9, 2014)

PredFan said:


> Meh. California is half Mexican and the other have is left wing moonbat. Who cares. Meanwhile here in Florida, we are having the best weather ever.
> 
> Love me some climate change baby!



If California split into Northern and Southern, Southern California would be a "Red State."

It's a fact. Orange, Riverside, Kern, and San Diego counties are solid red. San Bernardino is moving to the red side of purple. Obviously the ghetto of San Bernardino itself will always be democrat, but the more affluent cities like Rancho Cucamonga and Redlands are GOP strongholds.

California is fucked up. San Francisco and Oakland rule the state with an iron fist - still it is not as blue as people think.


----------



## Dot Com (Oct 9, 2014)

^ thats one reason you people are suffering- conspicuous consumption


----------



## Dot Com (Dec 6, 2014)

here you go deniers: California s Drought Worst in 1 200 Years Researchers Say - NBC News

I might start a separate thread on that one


----------



## DriftingSand (Dec 6, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> here you go deniers: California s Drought Worst in 1 200 Years Researchers Say - NBC News
> 
> I might start a separate thread on that one



You mean there was a bad drought 1200 years ago?  I don't recall there being vehicle emissions way back then.  I guess "climate change" is just a natural occurrence.  Good to know.


----------



## SwimExpert (Dec 6, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> here you go deniers: California s Drought Worst in 1 200 Years Researchers Say - NBC News
> 
> I might start a separate thread on that one



So you mean to tell me that CO2 levels were even higher 1200 years ago than today?


----------



## Dot Com (Dec 6, 2014)

The truth hurts deniers. I don't make the news, I just report it.


----------



## DriftingSand (Dec 6, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> The truth hurts deniers. I don't make the news, I just report it.



That doesn't answer the question:  You "reported" that 1200 years ago emissions were so high that a "climate change/global warming" event took place.  If there were no factories, coal mines, oil refineries, or automobiles then please explain why droughts were taking place.  Are you going to blame the one-percenters and greedy businesses of the time or is there a more reasonable explanation?

(I don't expect to hear back from Dot Com folks)


----------



## Dot Com (Dec 6, 2014)

DriftingSand said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > The truth hurts deniers. I don't make the news, I just report it.
> ...


you're making ASSumptions son. DENIER ASSumptions at that.


----------



## DriftingSand (Dec 6, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> DriftingSand said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...



Still no answer!  Who's "denying" now?  Why was there "global warming" 1200 years ago?  Afraid to tackle the question?


----------



## westwall (Dec 6, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> here you go deniers: California s Drought Worst in 1 200 Years Researchers Say - NBC News
> 
> I might start a separate thread on that one











Which means.......   I'll wait for it.....   Oh crap.  It's you.  You'll NEVER figure it out...  OK, here's a hint.  1200 years is.......B......E.....F.......O.....R.......E....... man had any chance of affecting anything.  You see how all these arguments you think help you actually hurt you?

No, I didn't think so.


----------



## DriftingSand (Dec 6, 2014)

westwall said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > here you go deniers: California s Drought Worst in 1 200 Years Researchers Say - NBC News
> ...



Dot Com has had several opportunities to explain this interesting "news" about ancient climate change but all we get is *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* ...


----------



## Dot Com (Dec 25, 2014)

The Year in Pictures 2014 - NBC News


> Marina owner Mitzi Richards carries her granddaughter as they walk on their boat dock on the dried-up Huntington Lake in California on Sept. 23. The lake was only at 30 percent capacity. California experienced its third year of severe drought, the worst in decades, threatening to drain underground aquifers and let the taps run dry for some 40 million people.


----------



## SwimExpert (Dec 25, 2014)

Building a boat dock in the desert.  That's even worse than building a city in a hole between two major bodies of water.


----------



## westwall (Dec 25, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> The Year in Pictures 2014 - NBC News
> 
> 
> > Marina owner Mitzi Richards carries her granddaughter as they walk on their boat dock on the dried-up Huntington Lake in California on Sept. 23. The lake was only at 30 percent capacity. California experienced its third year of severe drought, the worst in decades, threatening to drain underground aquifers and let the taps run dry for some 40 million people.








You do realize that that was a man made lake right?


----------



## Dot Com (Dec 25, 2014)

deniers gonna' deny


----------



## westwall (Dec 25, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> deniers gonna' deny






Idiots' gonna idiot.


----------



## Billy_Bob (Dec 25, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> deniers gonna' deny


----------



## Billy_Bob (Dec 25, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> The Year in Pictures 2014 - NBC News
> 
> 
> > Marina owner Mitzi Richards carries her granddaughter as they walk on their boat dock on the dried-up Huntington Lake in California on Sept. 23. The lake was only at 30 percent capacity. California experienced its third year of severe drought, the worst in decades, threatening to drain underground aquifers and let the taps run dry for some 40 million people.



That was a man made reisvor which has been allowed to drain because idiots like Nancy Pelosie and other liberal alarmist democrats are wasting the water back to the ocean rather than using their brains.. all because of a slug that lives well in tanks and just about everywhere else..  And now its blamed on AGW while they hide their stupid left wit crap.


----------



## westwall (Dec 25, 2014)

Billy_Bob said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > The Year in Pictures 2014 - NBC News
> ...








Oh, don't go confusing Dottie with facts.  They make her head hurt.  What I do find amusing is EVERY lake that they have shown drying up in California....is a man made lake!


----------



## Old Rocks (Dec 26, 2014)

westwall said:


> Billy_Bob said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...


My, my, you just never stop lying in support of your fantasies, do you, ol' Walleyes.

Drought hits Lake Tahoe drying up Truckee River

The summer of 2014 ends up just like it started. Dry.

Anytime now, Lake Tahoe will drop so low no water will flow from the alpine jewel into the Truckee River.

Already, the river flowing through the northern Nevada metro area of Reno and Sparks is slowed to a trickle. Sun-bleached boulders protrude from sluggish waters like rounded bones.

“The river will basically dry up below Lake Tahoe about the end of this month”


Chad Blanchard
It's drought, now three years in duration. And while no one can say how long it will last, the event has already had a widespread impact across Nevada, withering agricultural fields, stressing livestock and wildlife and producing dangerous conditions fueling wildfires like the one that recently layered Reno's skies in choking clouds of smoke.


----------



## Dot Com (Dec 26, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Bob said:
> ...


Sadly we're supposed to just accept deniers "opinions" vs. our sourced posts. Says quite alot about their hive mind mentality


----------



## westwall (Dec 26, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Bob said:
> ...








Yeah, Lake Tahoe, which I look at every day from my window.  It finally fell below it's natural level for the first time in _five years_!  There is a dam that was built at Tahoe City way back when to raise the level of the lake for irrigation purposes.  So, how many times has it been below it's natural rim you ask?  Well, no you probably don't because that shatters your bullshit meme, but for people who care about facts here you go, it's lowest reported level was in November of *1992*!  Holy crap!   The lake level was TWO FEET LOWER way back then! 

The lake has been below the natural rim *DOZENS* of times through the years.  *DOZENS*!  Those are facts that idiots like you just can't seem to wrap your tiny little brains around.


----------



## westwall (Dec 26, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...








If your sources were the slightest bit credible you would have a point.  As they aren't, you don't.


----------



## Old Rocks (Dec 28, 2014)

Oh yeah, here we have ol' Walleyes claiming that the AGU and GSA journals are not credible sources, but WUWT is. And then claiming to be a Phd in Geology. Wheeeee..........


----------



## Dot Com (Dec 28, 2014)

westwall said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...


Please point them out. Mkay? Blanket statements, like the one you just made don't fly here. thanks. 



Old Rocks said:


> Oh yeah, here we have ol' Walleyes claiming that the AGU and GSA journals are not credible sources, but WUWT is. And then claiming to be a Phd in Geology. Wheeeee..........


----------



## westwall (Dec 29, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...









I just pointed out some facts, that say your opinions are wrong.  M'kaaaaay.


----------



## Dot Com (Apr 1, 2015)

quelle surprise!!!

California unveils historic water restrictions over drought crisis - Yahoo News

its not letting-up people


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 1, 2015)

Funny thing about deserts...they get really dry. Who knew..


----------



## Dot Com (Apr 1, 2015)

from my above link:


> Los Angeles (AFP) - California announced sweeping state-wide water restrictions for the first time in history Wednesday in order to combat the region's devastating drought, the worst since records began
> 
> Governor Jerry Brown issued the declaration at a press conference in a parched, brown slope of the Sierra Nevada mountains that would normally be covered by deep snow.



happy now deniers? Uncensored2008 must be going through hell


----------



## westwall (Apr 1, 2015)

Dot Com said:


> from my above link:
> 
> 
> > Los Angeles (AFP) - California announced sweeping state-wide water restrictions for the first time in history Wednesday in order to combat the region's devastating drought, the worst since records began
> ...








Poor, poor dottie.  No one wants CA to suffer from a drought.  But the simple fact is, it is as natural as the sun rising in the east, and setting in the west.  Mankind has never had the ability to cause droughts, and probably never will.  If we could, just imagine how powerful a weapon that would be.


----------



## boedicca (Apr 1, 2015)

California is in a drought period - something that has happened repeatedly throughout history.  It's why we should have built additional reservoirs and canals to store water during wet years.  Instead, the leftwing moonbats who run the state have destroyed storage capacity while the population doubled.

This is what is known as Bad Management (or Bad Luck, in the Heinlein sense).


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 1, 2015)

westwall said:


> Poor, poor dottie.  No one wants CA to suffer from a drought.  But the simple fact is, it is as natural as the sun rising in the east, and setting in the west.  Mankind has never had the ability to cause droughts, and probably never will.  If we could, just imagine how powerful a weapon that would be.



We have also had a reasonably good rain season this year. Not what I had hoped for, but we got some solid rain and good snow pack.


----------



## westwall (Apr 1, 2015)

Uncensored2008 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Poor, poor dottie.  No one wants CA to suffer from a drought.  But the simple fact is, it is as natural as the sun rising in the east, and setting in the west.  Mankind has never had the ability to cause droughts, and probably never will.  If we could, just imagine how powerful a weapon that would be.
> ...









Weeeellll....I'm looking out my window at the snow pack is the lowest I've seen it in 30ish years.  I think the water equivalent is around 13 inches of water throughout the whole Sierra.  That's very, very low.  

Lake Tahoe has still not reached it's most recent low level record....I think it has another nearly two feet to get that low....but it is low...

See how drought has lowered Lake Tahoe


----------



## Dot Com (Apr 1, 2015)

Uncensored2008 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Poor, poor dottie.  No one wants CA to suffer from a drought.  But the simple fact is, it is as natural as the sun rising in the east, and setting in the west.  Mankind has never had the ability to cause droughts, and probably never will.  If we could, just imagine how powerful a weapon that would be.
> ...


good snow pack? Not according to what I've read not to mention the 2nd paragraph of my source:



> Governor Jerry Brown issued the declaration at *a press conference in a parched, brown slope of the Sierra Nevada mountains that would normally be covered by deep snow..*


----------



## boedicca (Apr 1, 2015)

westwall said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...





Oh, we have a drought...but it's due to lack of a strong El Nino rather than AGW nonsense.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 1, 2015)

westwall said:


> Weeeellll....I'm looking out my window at the snow pack is the lowest I've seen it in 30ish years.  I think the water equivalent is around 13 inches of water throughout the whole Sierra.  That's very, very low.
> 
> Lake Tahoe has still not reached it's most recent low level record....I think it has another nearly two feet to get that low....but it is low...
> 
> See how drought has lowered Lake Tahoe



The rain wasn't enough to make up for the last 4 years of drought, but as a single season, it was not too bad. I was hoping that the November, December trend would continue, but it didn't.


----------



## westwall (Apr 1, 2015)

boedicca said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...






That much is very clear.  dottie and company have never let a thing like facts interrupt their hysteria though.


----------



## Dot Com (Apr 1, 2015)

leave it to deniers to attack me for not using facts when I'm the only one here providing sourcing.  deniers


----------



## westwall (Apr 1, 2015)

Dot Com said:


> leave it to deniers to attack me for not using facts when I'm the only one here providing sourcing.  deniers








What "facts" would those be dottie?  The ones I posted that show drought to be natural?  The links that show man has zero influence on the frequency and severity of Drought period?  Those facts?  That you run away from at every opportunity?

We call you names because you are an unethical, lying, piece of crap.  True story.


----------



## boedicca (Apr 1, 2015)

As dottie lurves the gubmint, here's a gubmint source on El Ninos for the past few decades.  Strong El Ninos mean lots of rain; weak, not so much.



 


United States El Ni o Impacts NOAA Climate.gov


----------



## Dot Com (Apr 1, 2015)

NOW deniers come out w/ "stuff" besides their opinions. Got to have their backs against the wall to do it  once they run out of ad homs that is. 'twas ever thus.


----------



## westwall (Apr 1, 2015)

Dot Com said:


> NOW deniers come out w/ "stuff" besides their opinions. Got to have their backs against the wall to do it  once they run out of ad homs that is. 'twas ever thus.









Ahhhh, yes.  The little dot projects as well.  When you make claims that are unfounded you are going to get bitch slapped.  I see you are staying away from the FZ as well.  Got too hot in there for you too I see.  Here's the deal little dot....stop lying.  Every bit of evidence that we have posted that refutes the drivel you post is peer reviewed and most comes from the government. 

That means the only denier in this thread.....is you.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 1, 2015)

Dot Com said:


> leave it to deniers to attack me for not using facts when I'm the only one here providing sourcing.  deniers


Huh? Are you saying California is not in a drought region? Because that's what they're saying and that's a fact! Sorry missed your point somewhere along your rant


----------



## jc456 (Apr 1, 2015)

boedicca said:


> As dottie lurves the gubmint, here's a gubmint source on El Ninos for the past few decades.  Strong El Ninos mean lots of rain; weak, not so much.
> 
> View attachment 38878
> 
> ...


 Is that perhaps why it is a drought region?


----------



## lake avenue (Apr 1, 2015)

I'm saying this as a climate change supporter.. I'm fairly certain cali gets droughts, like, on a regular.


----------



## Staidhup (Apr 1, 2015)

Hey dimwit, no body is denying the earths climate hasn't been in a warming trend for centuries, only that the earth is a living organism that is in constantly changing and evolving. Droughts and wet cycles are normal, however, for some its a inconvenience that is outside their control and accept it, others feel superior to nature and seek absolute dominance, and yet others see an economic advantage to be gained by running around selling bogus solutions like carbon credits....So what will these fools sell when the world reverts to a cooling trend, wind powered space heaters?


----------



## Billy_Bob (Apr 1, 2015)

Staidhup said:


> Hey dimwit, no body is denying the earths climate hasn't been in a warming trend for centuries, only that the earth is a living organism that is in constantly changing and evolving. Droughts and wet cycles are normal, however, for some its a inconvenience that is outside their control and accept it, others feel superior to nature and seek absolute dominance, and yet others see an economic advantage to be gained by running around selling bogus solutions like carbon credits....So what will these fools sell when the world reverts to a cooling trend, wind powered space heaters?



IF the solar physicists I am acquainted with are correct, were about to enter a very steep cooling period.  we have already dropped 0.2 deg C in the last 16 years, the approximate length of surface heat reserve the oceans can store and exhausted it. They predict that within 2 years the rapid cooling will become undeniably evident.  I am inclined to agree with them, watching the six atmospheric circulations, their strength levels, size and depth changing. As this current EL Nada winds down its going to begin cooling in earnest.


----------



## Old Rocks (Apr 2, 2015)

Link, silly ass Billy Boob, link. Because you have repeated that lie numerous times.


----------



## SwimExpert (Apr 2, 2015)

Billy_Bob said:


> Staidhup said:
> 
> 
> > Hey dimwit, no body is denying the earths climate hasn't been in a warming trend for centuries, only that the earth is a living organism that is in constantly changing and evolving. Droughts and wet cycles are normal, however, for some its a inconvenience that is outside their control and accept it, others feel superior to nature and seek absolute dominance, and yet others see an economic advantage to be gained by running around selling bogus solutions like carbon credits....So what will these fools sell when the world reverts to a cooling trend, wind powered space heaters?
> ...



It will only be a cooling period until the data is adjusted to show warming.

On a serious note, "period" is much to vague a term for this issue, most of the time.  Winter is a "cooling period."  The past couple years have been a cooling period.  The past 2 million years have been a "cooling period."


----------



## Dot Com (Apr 2, 2015)

Climatologist Who Predicted California Drought 10 Years Ago Says It May Soon Be Even More Dire ThinkProgress



> First, though, as I’ve reported, scientists a decade ago not only predicted the loss of Arctic ice would dry out California, they also precisely predicted the specific, unprecedented change in the jet stream that has in fact caused the unprecedented nature of the California drought. Study co-author, Prof. Lisa Sloan, told me last week that, “I think the actual situation in the next few decades could be even more dire that our study suggested.”
> 
> 
> Back in 2004, Sloan, professor of Earth sciences at UC Santa Cruz, and her graduate student Jacob Sewall published, “Disappearing Arctic sea ice reduces available water in the American west” (subs. req’d). They used powerful computers “to simulate the effects of reduced Arctic sea ice,” and “their most striking finding was a significant reduction in rain and snowfall in the American West.”


----------



## ClosedCaption (Apr 2, 2015)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> ...




Why listen to scientists when we have so many maybeologists?


----------



## SwimExpert (Apr 2, 2015)

Dot Com said:


> Climatologist Who Predicted California Drought 10 Years Ago Says It May Soon Be Even More Dire ThinkProgress
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That may as well have been a palm reader.  Anyone can "predict" a vague scenario as being "imminent" and end up being "proven" correct on a ten year timescale.  Predicting a drought in the American west isn't exactly the kind of thing that requires much more than a 7th grade education.


----------



## ClosedCaption (Apr 2, 2015)

SwimExpert said:


> That may as well have been a palm reader. Anyone can "predict" a vague scenario as being "imminent" and end up being "proven" correct on a ten year timescale. Predicting a drought in the American west isn't exactly the kind of thing that requires much more than a 7th grade education.



I hope this quote doesnt go on a record somewhere where future generations can witness how we view science as being akin to palm readers


----------



## SwimExpert (Apr 2, 2015)

ClosedCaption said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> > That may as well have been a palm reader. Anyone can "predict" a vague scenario as being "imminent" and end up being "proven" correct on a ten year timescale. Predicting a drought in the American west isn't exactly the kind of thing that requires much more than a 7th grade education.
> ...



You say "science" like it is something magical.  As if, anything tangentially touching the very concept of "science" is instantly inerrant.  Not all science is correct.  In fact, a great multitude of science ends up being incorrect.


----------



## ClosedCaption (Apr 2, 2015)

SwimExpert said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> > SwimExpert said:
> ...




You say "science" like it is something magical. 

LMAO!!!  Stop it your killing me


----------



## jc456 (Apr 2, 2015)

ClosedCaption said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...


Most better than them there fake experts friend. Anytime fool.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 2, 2015)

Ex


ClosedCaption said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> > That may as well have been a palm reader. Anyone can "predict" a vague scenario as being "imminent" and end up being "proven" correct on a ten year timescale. Predicting a drought in the American west isn't exactly the kind of thing that requires much more than a 7th grade education.
> ...


exactly!!!!!!!you finally understand!


----------



## Dot Com (Apr 3, 2015)

Heres a good ongoing source in re: the effects of AGW- California megadrought It s already begun.


----------



## Dot Com (Apr 4, 2015)

California Drought Tests History of Endless Growth

just like the failure of capitalism build, build, build, grow, grow, grow. Its unsustainable.



> “If this gets out of control, I’ll probably end up leaving,” Mr. Smith said. “This has been a problem for as long as I’ve been alive.”
> 
> “I’ve watched this state get trampled by developers,” he added. “They keep building homes, but where’s the water going to come from?”


----------



## skookerasbil (Apr 8, 2015)

Now here is a compelling piece of journalism..........fascinating theory................that California Environmentalists are to blame for the California drought..........

Carly Fiorina Liberal environmentalists to blame for Calif. drought TheHill

LMAO......the fucking greens.....all they can do is fuck things up more!!!


----------



## Dot Com (Apr 15, 2015)




----------



## SSDD (Apr 16, 2015)

The only thing california is suffering through is extreme irresponsibility with their natural resources....and liberal politicians.


----------



## Crick (Apr 17, 2015)

I find it interesting that several people here want to blame liberal politicians for causing California's water shortage because they failed to build enough dams and reservoirs.

I think we can very easily go back just a little further and find a far more fundamental cause.  More people moved to California than the environment could ever support.  Who is to blame for that?  Land developers, real estate moguls, investors... in short, businessmen looking to make a profit.

Environmentally conscientious citizens and politicians realizing that raping the water supply from the coast to the San Joaquin mountains to support a thin strip of wealthy beach-goers was not a scheme that would work out for anyone.  Think of it as some of the earliest water rationing.

But humans are absurdly slow to learn.  Be that as it may, this drought looks to last long enough that a sufficient number might actually get the message and move.

And this will be just another one of those drastic climatic changes that just happen to coincide with increased global warming.  We fully expect you all to deny any connection whatsoever.  It's just normal.  It's just a natural cycle.  It's what always happens.  Right?


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2015)

Dot Com said:


> California Drought Tests History of Endless Growth
> 
> just like the failure of capitalism build, build, build, grow, grow, grow. Its unsustainable.
> 
> ...









This is the first accurate thing you have said in this thread.


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2015)

Crick said:


> I find it interesting that several people here want to blame liberal politicians for causing California's water shortage because they failed to build enough dams and reservoirs.
> 
> I think we can very easily go back just a little further and find a far more fundamental cause.  More people moved to California than the environment could ever support.  Who is to blame for that?  Land developers, real estate moguls, investors... in short, businessmen looking to make a profit.
> 
> ...







80% of the water usage in CA is agriculture nimrod.  Get the farmers to start planting drought resistant crops (that means idiots like you have to accept the GMO's aren't "evil") and a huuuge part of the problem disappears.

Here's some folks in Wyoming enjoying a healthy dose of global warming right now!  10 inches of snow in a day.  Wish we had got it instead!



Embedded media from this media site is no longer available


----------



## Crick (Apr 17, 2015)

westwall said:


> 80% of the water usage in CA is agriculture nimrod.



And how does that change the issue?  How much of that agriculture is based on artificial irrigation?



westwall said:


> Get the farmers to start planting drought resistant crops (that means idiots like you have to accept the GMO's aren't "evil") and a huuuge part of the problem disappears.



Hey, fuckface, I've supported GMOs since they were invented.

What drought resistant crops would you have them plant and how much of their current water consumption do you think that will save?



westwall said:


> Here's some folks in Wyoming...



...That you think to use to make us think the west isn't really suffering a drought or that the world isn't really getting warmer.  Sorry, but you fail.


----------



## westwall (Apr 17, 2015)

Crick said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > 80% of the water usage in CA is agriculture nimrod.
> ...







Wrong nimrod, I have been talking about the drought we are in for a couple of years.  What I have been saying is the drought California is enjoying is normal.  They happen all the time.  What is stupid is you clowns claiming it is due to global warming which is patently ridiculous.


----------



## Crick (Apr 17, 2015)

I haven't made such a claim.  I have said, that the world's climate scientists have said, that the odds of weather extremes taking place have increased with increasing temperatures.


What drought resistant crops would you have them plant and how much of their current water consumption do you believe they can save?


----------



## Old Rocks (Apr 17, 2015)

All crops take water. If you don't have the water, you cannot grow the crops. Whether they are drought resistant or not.


----------



## Staidhup (Apr 17, 2015)

And yes, California could have opted to build desalination facilities years ago, some cities did, however the vast majority opted to roll the dice and blame everyone else for their stupidity. Reminds me of the fable about the wolf and three little pigs. But then again what more can one expect it is after all California.


----------



## Gracie (Apr 17, 2015)

That vid was a blast from the past. I grew up in Delano.


----------



## HenryBHough (Apr 17, 2015)

California has but begun to learn that stupidity has consequences.


----------



## Gracie (Apr 17, 2015)

And unfortunately, so will the rest of the USA that relies on Delano and small towns like it that supply most of what goes on yer tables.


----------



## Dot Com (Apr 18, 2015)

westwall said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > California Drought Tests History of Endless Growth
> ...


hyperbole much?

back to topic,


----------



## SwimExpert (Apr 18, 2015)

Crick said:


> I think we can very easily go back just a little further and find a far more fundamental cause.  More people moved to California than the environment could ever support.  Who is to blame for that?  Land developers, real estate moguls, investors... in short, businessmen looking to make a profit.





Nobody forced anyone to move to California.  Nobody would have ever built new homes if there weren't people who wanted to buy them.


----------



## Gracie (Apr 18, 2015)

California was and is a beautiful state. This states FEEDS most of you. We don't control the weather and FOOD takes A LOT OF WATER to feed the USA.


----------



## Old Rocks (Apr 18, 2015)

*U.S. Drought Monitor*




U.S. Drought Monitor U.S. Drought Portal

*Take a good look at this map. Not only the crops in California, but the crops in Oregon, Washington, and Idaho. Wheat, potatos, and onions, plus beef. You are going to pay more for them in the coming months, more than the increases that you have already seen. If a drought also develops in the Dakatos, then the world's food supply is going to be seriously affected.*


----------



## Old Rocks (Apr 18, 2015)

Staidhup said:


> And yes, California could have opted to build desalination facilities years ago, some cities did, however the vast majority opted to roll the dice and blame everyone else for their stupidity. Reminds me of the fable about the wolf and three little pigs. But then again what more can one expect it is after all California.


*How much are you willing to pay for crops from California? Have you the slightest idea of the cost of desalinization?*

Cost of Desalination - HowStuffWorks

So, what is holding us back from diving in headfirst? Until recently, purifying seawater cost roughly five to 10 times as much as drawing freshwater from more traditional sources [source: USGS]. RO filters have come a long way, however, and desalination today costs only half of what it did 10 to 15 years ago. Consequently, transportation, energy and environmental costs have now replaced technology as the primary impediments to large-scale desalination [source: Maloni, NRC-WSTB].

Energy consumption accounts for as much as one-third of the total cost of desalinated water, making even coastal plants expensive to operate [source: Maloni, NRC-WSTB]. Inland states must also grapple with the sizeable expense of transporting seawater inland. They can opt to use local brackish (salty) water sources, instead, but then they face a different problem: how to dispose of the byproduct, a concentrated salt solution that coastal sites have the luxury of pumping back into the ocean (a practice that remains controversial in environmental circles). Zero Liquid Discharge (ZLD) plants are one way out, but they drive up the energy costs of what is already an energy-intensive process [source: NRC-WSTB].

Is desalination cost-effective? The answer probably depends on where you live. Given the high costs of freshwater importation and reclamation, desalinating seawater is an increasingly attractive option for water-stressed areas. The potential for desalination is limited mostly by social, political, environmental and economic considerations, which vary from place to place. Any way you look at it, the rising tide of desalination seems likely to remain a growing part of our water portfolio for years to come.


----------



## Old Rocks (Apr 18, 2015)

HenryBHough said:


> California has but begun to learn that stupidity has consequences.


Unless you have a very good paying job, you are going to be paying the cost of the drought in the West. In food prices, and in many other ways. 

Yes, California, as well as the rest of the US should be preparing for the consequences of a rapidly changing climate. But guess who is doing everything they can to prevent that from happening? It is not the liberals or Dems. You dumb fucks in denial are the chief impediment to responding to what is happening.


----------



## SSDD (Apr 18, 2015)

Crick said:


> Can YOU predict where the next drought will occur?  You have access to the same data as do I.



I predict that the next drought will occur in a place with a history of dought....a place where drought is part of the natural cycle....a place where the native plants and animals have evolved and adapted to drought.  Care to provide evidence to the contrary?


----------



## SSDD (Apr 18, 2015)

boedicca said:


> CA's water problem is due to lack of investment in storage and distribution infrastructure for the past few decades.  While the population has more than doubled, we've actually lost capacity due to enviro efforts to have dams destroyed.
> 
> This is naturally arid country which was able to be used for agriculture due to dams, reservoirs, and irrigation.   We need reservoirs to store water during wet years.
> 
> Also, the El Nino has been very inactive for the past few years.  We're expecting a weak one this winter; should result in some rain, but not enough.




Like I said earlier...the only thing california is suffering is misuse of its natural resources and liberal politicians.


----------



## SSDD (Apr 18, 2015)

Crick said:


> I said "_My contention is that the chance of droughts like this occurring increases with increasing global warming. Precipitation in the western US is strongly subject to the ENSO cycles whose timing and magnitude have been affected by global warming. Whatever the cause of this drought, there exists a very high likelihood that due to global warming, we will see more of these in the future than we have seen in the past. THAT is my position._"
> 
> Are you under the impression that pre-industrial rainfall in southern california was so low that it's not possible for the area to suffer a drought?




Paleo history tells us that during warm periods, the world was a much greener place....Was that because there were more droughts...green droughts perhaps?


----------



## Crick (Apr 18, 2015)

Why are you quoting me from 12 pages back?

My position has not changed.  Your comments are still irrelevant either to them or to the topic.


----------



## SSDD (Apr 18, 2015)

Crick said:


> A fan of informed objectivity?





Crick said:


> Why are you quoting me from 12 pages back?
> 
> My position has not changed.  Your comments are still irrelevant either to them or to the topic.




Irrelavant to you perhaps...anything that questions your dogma is irrelevant to you


----------



## Crick (Apr 18, 2015)

Of what does paleoclimatology inform us that you find so crucial to your position?


----------



## Dot Com (Apr 19, 2015)

To shield tech executives California s biggest water users are secret Reveal


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Apr 19, 2015)

Prior to the invention of the internal combustion engine, Death Valley was know as Lush Green Valley.

Uh huh.

When you adjust the data, it becomes true

Can I get an Amen ( call for peer review)


----------



## Crick (Apr 20, 2015)

Go back to sleep Frank


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Apr 20, 2015)

Crick said:


> Go back to sleep Frank


Sleep?

And miss your "we control climate on planet Earth" comedy routine

Not a chance


----------



## Crick (Apr 20, 2015)

Okay, then.  You seem to be dreaming.


----------



## Dot Com (Apr 20, 2015)

Water wars boil in California drought Our view


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Apr 20, 2015)

Have to admire the consistentcy of the AGWCult as they give the exact same answer to any question.

Q. Can you point to any repeatable lab work showing how a 120ppm increase in CO2 causes "climate change"?

A. Denier!! Just fucking die!!!

Q. How much do we have to reduce CO2 in order to prevent these imaginary consequences you guys make up on a daily basis?

A. Denier!!! Just fucking die!!!


----------



## jc456 (Apr 21, 2015)

Crick said:


> I find it interesting that several people here want to blame liberal politicians for causing California's water shortage because they failed to build enough dams and reservoirs.
> 
> I think we can very easily go back just a little further and find a far more fundamental cause.  More people moved to California than the environment could ever support.  Who is to blame for that?  Land developers, real estate moguls, investors... in short, businessmen looking to make a profit.
> 
> ...


*I think we can very easily go back just a little further and find a far more fundamental cause.  More people moved to California than the environment could ever support.  Who is to blame for that?  Land developers, real estate moguls, investors... in short, businessmen looking to make a profit.*
holy crap another mystery post by Crick.  Isn't that what I and others have already stated months and months ago?  Hey, did you convert?


----------



## Crick (Apr 21, 2015)

That is NOT what you've been saying.  You've said that the blame lies with the people who resisted the theft of the state's water supplies to support the burgeoning coastal developments.  Your argument has been that all water should have been dammed up to supply the unchecked population.


----------



## Dot Com (Apr 21, 2015)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Have to admire the consistentcy of the AGWCult as they give the exact same answer to any question.
> 
> Q. Can you point to any repeatable lab work showing how a 120ppm increase in CO2 causes "climate change"?
> 
> ...


good generic reply denierboi


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Apr 22, 2015)

Dot Com said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Have to admire the consistentcy of the AGWCult as they give the exact same answer to any question.
> ...



Where's the lab work linking 120ppm of CO2 with climate chage?

How much do we have to lower CO2 to prevent Guam from tipping over?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 22, 2015)

Crick said:


> That is NOT what you've been saying.  You've said that the blame lies with the people who resisted the theft of the state's water supplies to support the burgeoning coastal developments.  Your argument has been that all water should have been dammed up to supply the unchecked population.


yea dude, it is.


----------



## Dot Com (Apr 22, 2015)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > CrusaderFrank said:
> ...


more generic statements? Look at the Left Coast Frank57  Climate Change is as plain as the nose on your face


----------



## jc456 (Apr 22, 2015)

Dot Com said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...


what's the change?


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Apr 23, 2015)

Dot Com said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...



Can you explain to us how CO2 only warmed the deep Pacific Ocean?

I'm not understanding how this worked at all, maybe someone form the AGWCult has an answer, and calling me a "DENIER!" isn't a real scientific answer


----------



## Crick (Apr 23, 2015)

Frank, listening to you demand information that you've already been given on multiple occasions is tiresome.  And it's not as if you make any efforts worth while in any other regard.

Warm surface waters are being driven against shorelines by winds changed by global warming.  That warm water is subducted and replaced with colder water pulled up from the depths.  Changes in global wind patterns are causing increased turnover that is cooling the surface and warming the depths.

Do you understand?  Yes or No.

Are you going to remember this or are you going to blabber about CO2 in the ocean depths or  LW radiation reaching thousands of feet down or make some other completely nonsensical charge?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 23, 2015)

Crick said:


> Frank, listening to you demand information that you've already been given on multiple occasions is tiresome.  And it's not as if you make any efforts worth while in any other regard.
> 
> Warm surface waters are being driven against shorelines by winds changed by global warming.  That warm water is subducted and replaced with colder water pulled up from the depths.  Changes in global wind patterns are causing increased turnover that is cooling the surface and warming the depths.
> 
> ...


Cough cough, ahem (clear throat), BULLSHIT


----------



## jc456 (Apr 23, 2015)

Crick said:


> Frank, listening to you demand information that you've already been given on multiple occasions is tiresome.  And it's not as if you make any efforts worth while in any other regard.
> 
> Warm surface waters are being driven against shorelines by winds changed by global warming.  That warm water is subducted and replaced with colder water pulled up from the depths.  Changes in global wind patterns are causing increased turnover that is cooling the surface and warming the depths.
> 
> ...


How long does it take the pacific to recover from a sunami?


----------



## Dot Com (Apr 23, 2015)

Crick said:


> Frank, listening to you demand information that you've already been given on multiple occasions is tiresome.  And it's not as if you make any efforts worth while in any other regard.
> 
> Warm surface waters are being driven against shorelines by winds changed by global warming.  That warm water is subducted and replaced with colder water pulled up from the depths.  Changes in global wind patterns are causing increased turnover that is cooling the surface and warming the depths.
> 
> ...


yeah come on 57Frank. It isn't as if you would change your mind even. We all know that don't we 57Frank (the '57' is for Celsius in this instance) CrusaderFrank


----------



## jc456 (Apr 23, 2015)

Dot Com said:


> Crick said:
> 
> 
> > Frank, listening to you demand information that you've already been given on multiple occasions is tiresome.  And it's not as if you make any efforts worth while in any other regard.
> ...


why don't you just post up what he asks for?  Are you afraid of the details in such a post?  Seems you avoid that response like it was ebola.  Come now dotster what say you, post up that there experimentaaaa ok? let's call a duck a duck and move on.


----------



## Crick (Apr 24, 2015)

Uhh... I think I just did.

Can you not read?


----------



## SwimExpert (Apr 24, 2015)

So no, you can't explain it.


----------



## Dot Com (Apr 24, 2015)

Environmental group sues to drain Hetch Hetchy Reservoir - San Jose Mercury News


----------



## jc456 (Apr 24, 2015)

Crick said:


> Uhh... I think I just did.
> 
> Can you not read?


your quote:

"yeah come on 57Frank. It isn't as if you would change your mind even. We all know that don't we 57Frank (the '57' is for Celsius in this instance) CrusaderFrank"
Where in this post is that experimentaaaa at?


----------



## Crick (Apr 24, 2015)

I guess you can't read.


----------



## Dot Com (Apr 24, 2015)

Nevada s Lake Mead on track to reach record low water level amid drought - Yahoo News


----------



## jc456 (Apr 24, 2015)

Dot Com said:


> Nevada s Lake Mead on track to reach record low water level amid drought - Yahoo News


Isn't the lake man made?  I'd say it most likely was


----------



## Crick (Apr 25, 2015)

And that makes a difference... how?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 25, 2015)

Crick said:


> And that makes a difference... how?


Really, you can't figure that out? How deep do you supposed it was initially?


----------



## Crick (Apr 25, 2015)

It was originally the Colorado River.  The lake was formed by the Hoover Dam.  For the lake to have dropped as it has, the inflow from the Colorado has to have been reduced significantly.  Mead is a reservoir and it is steadily consumed providing drinking water and irrigation to the people of California and Nevada.

Are you actually going to try to argue that the loss of California's largest reservoir is irrelevant - that it does NOT indicate the state is suffering severe drought?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 25, 2015)

Crick said:


> It was originally the Colorado River.  The lake was formed by the Hoover Dam.  For the lake to have dropped as it has, the inflow from the Colorado has to have been reduced significantly.  Mead is a reservoir and it is steadily consumed providing drinking water and irrigation to the people of California and Nevada.
> 
> Are you actually going to try to argue that the loss of California's largest reservoir is irrelevant - that it does NOT indicate the state is suffering severe drought?


It was doomed from the start when over population of it occurred


----------



## Crick (Apr 25, 2015)

But that is not what has caused it's level to plunge the last few years.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 25, 2015)

Crick said:


> But that is not what has caused it's level to plunge the last few years.


Poor management did based on population needs


----------



## Crick (Apr 25, 2015)

No part of the Earth can support limitless numbers of human beings or any other organism.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 25, 2015)

Crick said:


> No part of the Earth can support limitless numbers of human beings or any other organism.


Now you get it


----------



## Dot Com (Apr 25, 2015)

Crick said:


> It was originally the Colorado River.  The lake was formed by the Hoover Dam.  For the lake to have dropped as it has, the inflow from the Colorado has to have been reduced significantly.  Mead is a reservoir and it is steadily consumed providing drinking water and irrigation to the people of California and Nevada.
> 
> Are you actually going to try to argue that the loss of California's largest reservoir is irrelevant - that it does NOT indicate the state is suffering severe drought?


in his defense, he IS a denier


----------



## Dot Com (Apr 25, 2015)

posted this before but here is a good resource for those dealing w/ the Climate Change/AGW in Cali: California Drought - San Jose Mercury News


----------



## jc456 (Apr 25, 2015)

Dot Com said:


> posted this before but here is a good resource for those dealing w/ the Climate Change/AGW in Cali: California Drought - San Jose Mercury News


Huh? Point?


----------



## Crick (Apr 25, 2015)

The point was that the site at the link is a good resource for dealing with climate change / AGW in California.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 25, 2015)

Crick said:


> The point was that the site at the link is a good resource for dealing with climate change / AGW in California.


Drought is not climate change in California. You've been told that before. Come now something new.


----------



## Crick (Apr 25, 2015)

Your point is inappropos.  Whether or not you think they are related has no bearing.  You asked what point he was making.  I answered you.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 25, 2015)

Crick said:


> Your point is inappropos.  Whether or not you think they are related has no bearing.  You asked what point he was making.  I answered you.


Thanks! Still doesn't change what it shows. They are but statistical points with no meaning. Been telling you that for many threads.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Apr 25, 2015)

Youd think the melting ice would flood the rivers and lakes


----------



## Billy_Bob (Apr 25, 2015)

Old Rocks said:


> Link, silly ass Billy Boob, link. Because you have repeated that lie numerous times.



First of all Old Fraud, i have shown you the data over and over again but you simply like to call people liars when it doesn't fit your liberal control agenda. SO lets show old fraud as the liar he is projecting...

First since 2002 we have been cooling:






Now on to the prediction:
*Scientists and Studies predict ‘imminent global COOLING’ ahead – Drop in global temps ‘almost a slam dunk’ *


*



			Growing number of scientists are predicting global cooling: Russia’s Pulkovo Observatory: ‘We could be in for a cooling period that lasts 200-250 years’
		
Click to expand...

*


> *Danish Solar Scientist Svensmark declares ‘global warming has stopped and a cooling is beginning…enjoy global warming while it lasts’*
> 
> *New paper by Russian solar physicist by Habibullo Abdussamatov predicts another Little Ice Age within the next 30 years*
> 
> ...



Old Fraud should look pretty stupid right about now..


----------



## Billy_Bob (Apr 25, 2015)

SwimExpert said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > Climatologist Who Predicted California Drought 10 Years Ago Says It May Soon Be Even More Dire ThinkProgress
> ...



The Farmers Almanac sure hit it on the head and they use long established natural cycles.


----------



## Billy_Bob (Apr 25, 2015)

Dot Com said:


> Heres a good ongoing source in re: the effects of AGW- California megadrought It s already begun.



California (southern half) is a dam desert and spends about 70% of its time in low water situations.  Only today's idiots think the last 25 years of water is the "norm" for the region.


----------



## Billy_Bob (Apr 25, 2015)

skookerasbil said:


> Now here is a compelling piece of journalism..........fascinating theory................that California Environmentalists are to blame for the California drought..........
> 
> Carly Fiorina Liberal environmentalists to blame for Calif. drought TheHill
> 
> LMAO......the fucking greens.....all they can do is fuck things up more!!!


You got that one right!


----------



## Dot Com (Apr 25, 2015)

57Frank has to believe in AGW after viewing these facts: California s drought Flipbook of the maps 2014 - San Jose Mercury News


----------



## Dot Com (Apr 27, 2015)

update on AGW

Drought Widens Economic Divide for Californians


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Apr 27, 2015)

Dot Com said:


> 57Frank has to believe in AGW after viewing these facts: California s drought Flipbook of the maps 2014 - San Jose Mercury News



You have to "Believe" in AGW?

Really?


----------



## Dot Com (Apr 27, 2015)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > 57Frank has to believe in AGW after viewing these facts: California s drought Flipbook of the maps 2014 - San Jose Mercury News
> ...


that, or be part of the rw denier hive mind


----------



## mudwhistle (Apr 27, 2015)

Old Rocks said:


> *U.S. Drought Monitor*
> 
> 
> 
> ...




BTW.......those red areas on the map?

They're called @#%&$@ DESERTS!!!!!!


----------



## jc456 (Apr 27, 2015)

Dot Com said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...


so how does money clean up the CO2 supposed problem?


----------



## Old Rocks (Apr 27, 2015)

mudwhistle said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > *U.S. Drought Monitor*
> ...


Dumb ass, Northern California is not a desert. Nor is Grant County, Oregon.


----------



## Dot Com (Apr 27, 2015)

Crick said:


> No part of the Earth can support limitless numbers of human beings or any other organism.


Not according to supply siders (Repub voters) who think "capitalism" is a form of government


----------



## mudwhistle (Apr 27, 2015)

Old Rocks said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...


Dumbass.....in Oregon, around that area is a Desert called the Great Sandy Desert. Desert areas stretch intermittently all the way up through Yakama Washington.
My relatives have been living there since the 60s. It's dry and arid. I've been there dozens of times to visit them.

So STFU Dork!!!


----------



## Old Rocks (Apr 27, 2015)

And my great-grandfather prospected and established a ranch in Grant County with the proceeds from that endevour in the 1860's. From the Strawberry Mountains, Aldrichs, and Ochoco Mountains south is high desert. But from there north is ponderosa pine forests and farming and ranching country. Not a desert at all. In fact, there is even a remnnant stand of Alaska Cedar in the Aldrichs. Those trees definately don't grow in a desert.


----------



## Dot Com (Apr 27, 2015)

Crick said:


> No part of the Earth can support limitless numbers of human beings or any other organism.


indeed Crick

Overpopulation overconsumption in pictures Global Development Professionals Network The Guardian


----------



## Dot Com (May 4, 2015)

uncensored2008 must be going through a living hell 

California Drought Killed 12 Million Forest Trees Since Last Year KPBS


----------



## Dot Com (May 5, 2015)

from our friends on the other side of the pond: California drought brings sound of silence to baked barren farms US news The Guardian


----------



## westwall (May 5, 2015)

Dot Com said:


> uncensored2008 must be going through a living hell
> 
> California Drought Killed 12 Million Forest Trees Since Last Year KPBS








http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5384837.pdf


Dot Com said:


> from our friends on the other side of the pond: California drought brings sound of silence to baked barren farms US news The Guardian









Bet you missed this part...

“If people don’t have water it’ll just turn into a desert again,” said Allen, 52, as he surveyed a field of baked, barren earth on his farm, 10 miles outside Mendota. “That’s what this was before they built the whole system.”

Yes the drought is bad, but growing water intensive crops in a desert is pretty stupid don't ya think?


----------



## Dot Com (May 5, 2015)

Get ready for round 5 Cali thanks to our good friends in the big oil & big agri lobbies.


----------



## Dot Com (May 7, 2015)

California s drought from above


----------



## Dot Com (Jun 12, 2015)

update!!!

California Orders Large Water Cuts for Farmers Amid Historic Drought - NBC News


> The move shows California is sparing fewer and fewer users in the push to cut back on water using during the state's four-year drought.
> 
> "We are now at the point where demand in our system is outstripping supply for even the most senior water rights holders," Caren Trgovcich, chief deputy director of the water board.
> 
> The order applies to farmers and others whose rights to water were staked more than a century ago. Many farmers holding those senior-water rights contend the state has no authority to order cuts.


----------



## westwall (Jun 12, 2015)

Governor Brown thinks there may be too many people in California...ya think!


Jerry Brown Worries About Overpopulation Amid CA Drought The Daily Caller


----------



## Dot Com (Jun 12, 2015)

Daily Caller? OK

Cali IS overpopulated. Same as Vegas. Wasn't meant to be millions upon millions of people there and major tributaries diverted so that they could grow almonds and build golf courses in the desert. Thats MURICAN excess..


----------



## westwall (Jun 13, 2015)

Dot Com said:


> Daily Caller? OK
> 
> Cali IS overpopulated. Same as Vegas. Wasn't meant to be millions upon millions of people there and major tributaries diverted so that they could grow almonds and build golf courses in the desert. Thats MURICAN excess..







No, just short sightedness.


----------



## SwimExpert (Jun 13, 2015)

Dot Com said:


> Daily Caller? OK
> 
> Cali IS overpopulated. Same as Vegas. Wasn't meant to be millions upon millions of people there and major tributaries diverted so that they could grow almonds and build golf courses in the desert. Thats MURICAN excess..



So....liberals gorge themselves on American excess?  

Well, if you say so....


----------



## Dot Com (Jun 13, 2015)

Thats all you have to add. Thanks I guess.


----------



## flacaltenn (Jun 13, 2015)

Theres been about 2 or 4million people added out there since Cali approved any major water projects.
Most of them illegal and dran to the benefits.  At least my favorite leftist governor is NOW focused on the problems and not blaming a 0.5 degree change.


hmmmmmmm  High speed trains to nowhere or water projects.


----------



## Dot Com (Jun 13, 2015)

link? k thanks


----------



## PredFan (Jun 13, 2015)

Apparently the earth hates California as much as the rest of us do.


----------



## Dot Com (Jun 13, 2015)

so..... nothing of substance to add?


----------



## PredFan (Jun 13, 2015)

Nope, this thread is worth nothing but ridicule.


----------



## boedicca (Jun 13, 2015)

flacaltenn said:


> Theres been about 2 or 4million people added out there since Cali approved any major water projects.
> Most of them illegal and dran to the benefits.  At least my favorite leftist governor is NOW focused on the problems and not blaming a 0.5 degree change.
> 
> 
> hmmmmmmm  High speed trains to nowhere or water projects.




It's telling to note that the Governor who basically cancelled California's State Water Project in the 1970s is the same guy who is now blaming water shortages on Climate Change and Excess population.

The Project anticipated both periodic droughts and increased population.  If it has been implemented as planned, we would have have shortages now.  This truly is a Man-Made problem.


----------



## mamooth (Jun 13, 2015)

So reservoirs to trap water that doesn't exist would solve the problem?

You do understand reservoirs don't create water, right?

Conservative logic is fascinating. Apparently, liberals are to blame for being unwilling to magically create water with reservoirs.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jun 13, 2015)

mamooth said:


> So reservoirs to trap water that doesn't exist would solve the problem?
> 
> You do understand reservoirs don't create water, right?
> 
> Conservative logic is fascinating. Apparently, liberals are to blame for being unwilling to magically create water with reservoirs.








^ Death Valley, CA


----------



## mamooth (Jun 13, 2015)

No, Frank, SUVs did not cause a green meadow to turn into Death Valley. Why do you think they did?


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jun 13, 2015)

mamooth said:


> No, Frank, SUVs did not cause a green meadow to turn into Death Valley. Why do you think they did?



The Reality Deniers say that CA dryness is due to "Manmade global climate change warming" or whatever you call it today


----------



## mamooth (Jun 13, 2015)

So your reality-denying claim is that no deserts existed on earth before global warming.

Good luck with that.

So what's the point of all your dishonest hyperbole? Has it accomplished anything for you yet?


----------



## jc456 (Jun 13, 2015)

Wow 


mamooth said:


> So reservoirs to trap water that doesn't exist would solve the problem?
> 
> You do understand reservoirs don't create water, right?
> 
> Conservative logic is fascinating. Apparently, liberals are to blame for being unwilling to magically create water with reservoirs.


, I see the stupid still hasn't left you. Perhaps you might actually read what was posted. Hahahaha dude/dudette!


----------



## jc456 (Jun 13, 2015)

CrusaderFrank said:


> mamooth said:
> 
> 
> > So reservoirs to trap water that doesn't exist would solve the problem?
> ...


How long it been that way?


----------



## boedicca (Jun 13, 2015)

mamooth said:


> So reservoirs to trap water that doesn't exist would solve the problem?
> 
> You do understand reservoirs don't create water, right?
> 
> Conservative logic is fascinating. Apparently, liberals are to blame for being unwilling to magically create water with reservoirs.




You poor blithering booby.   3-4 year droughts are historically common in CA.    El Nino years with a lot of rain fall are also common.  The point of having WATER STORAGE is to have supplies for the drought years.


----------



## jc456 (Jun 13, 2015)

boedicca said:


> mamooth said:
> 
> 
> > So reservoirs to trap water that doesn't exist would solve the problem?
> ...


He/she can't figure such things like that out!


----------



## boedicca (Jun 13, 2015)

This describes some of the Eco-Nazi campaign to send water to the ocean and create man-made shortages.

_...
Working in cooperation with sympathetic judges and friendly federal and state officials, environmental groups have gone to extreme lengths to deprive the San Joaquin Valley, the heart of much of the U.S. agricultural production, of much-needed water. Consider the following actions they took:

The Central Valley Project Improvement Act: Backed by the NRDC, Sierra Club and other extreme environmental groups, large Democratic majorities in Congress passed the CVPIA in 1992 after attaching it to a must-pass public lands bill. The act stipulated that 800,000 acre-feet of water — or 260 billion gallons — on the Valley's west side had to be diverted annually to environmental causes, with an additional 400,000 acre-feet later being diverted annually to wildlife refuges.

Smelt and salmon biological opinions: Lawsuits filed by the NRDC and similar organizations forced the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and the National Marine Fisheries Service to issue, respectively, biological opinions on smelt (in 2008) and on salmon (in 2009). These opinions virtually ended operation of the Jones and Banks pumping plants — the two major pumping stations that move San Joaquin River Delta water — and resulted in massive diversions of water for environmental purposes.

The San Joaquin River Settlement: After nearly two decades of litigation related to a lawsuit filed in 1988 by the National Resources Defense Council, Sierra Club and other environmental groups, San Joaquin Valley agriculture organizations agreed to a settlement in 2006, later approved by a Democratic Congress and signed into law by President Obama. The settlement created the San Joaquin River Restoration Program. The program, which aims to create salmon runs along the San Joaquin River, required major new water diversions from Valley communities. Despite warnings from me and other California Republicans, agriculture groups naively approved the settlement based on false promises by the settlement's supporters that Valley water supplies would eventually be restored at some future, unspecified date.

Groundwater regulation: In September 2014, California Gov. Jerry Brown approved regulations requiring that water basins implement plans to achieve "groundwater sustainability" — essentially limiting how much water locals can use from underground storage supplies. But these pumping restrictions, slated to take effect over the next decade, will reduce access to what has become the final water source for many Valley communities, which have increasingly turned to groundwater pumping as their surface water supplies were drastically cut.

*A Litany Of Hypocrisy*

As radical groups have pursued this campaign to dry up the San Joaquin Valley, it's worth noting some of their stunning contradictions, hypocrisies, fallacies and failures:

"There's not enough water in California": Environmentalists often claim that the California water crisis stems from the state not having enough water to satisfy its rapidly growing population, especially during a drought.

However, the state in fact has abundant water flowing into the Delta, which is the heart of California's irrigation structure. Water that originates in the snowpack of the Sierra Nevada Mountains runs off into the Delta, which has two pumping stations that help distribute the water throughout the state.

But on average, due to environmental regulations as well as a lack of water storage capacity (attributable, in large part, to activist groups' opposition to new storage projects), 70% of the water that enters the Delta is simply flushed into the ocean. California's water infrastructure was designed to withstand five years of drought, so the current crisis, which began about three years ago, should not be a crisis at all. During those three years, the state has flushed more than 2 million acre-feet of water — or 652 billion gallons — into the ocean due to the aforementioned biological opinions, which have prevented the irrigation infrastructure from operating at full capacity.

"Farmers use 80% of California's water": Having deliberately reduced the California water supply through decades of litigation, the radicals now need a scapegoat for the resulting crisis. So they blame farmers ("big agriculture," as they call them) for using 80% of the state's water.

This statistic, widely parroted by the media and some politicians, is a gross distortion. Of the water that is captured for use, farmers get 40%, cities get 10% and a full 50% goes to environmental purposes — that is, it gets flushed into the ocean. By arbitrarily excluding the huge environmental water diversion from their calculations — as if it is somehow irrelevant to the water crisis — environmentalists deceptively double the farmers' usage from 40% to 80%...._

Man-Made Drought A Guide To California s Water Wars - Investors.com


----------



## mamooth (Jun 13, 2015)

The magical conservative dam project is totally economically unfeasible, of course. But these are conservatives, and they're spending someone else's money, so naturally wasting money is no object.

There is already much more reservoir capacity than an average year can supply, or even a wet year. It takes a very wet year to exceed capacity. You're proposing a monumentally expensive system for very small returns. And if the year isn't wet, the extra surface area loses more water by evaporation and absorption.

There are many people who study this carefully, you know. And they think about the costs, which will be totally foreign to conservatives. Maybe you should all fill them in on your "We just hasta build dams everywhere!" brilliant insights.


----------



## Dot Com (Jun 13, 2015)

mamooth said:


> So reservoirs to trap water that doesn't exist would solve the problem?
> 
> You do understand reservoirs don't create water, right?
> 
> Conservative logic is fascinating. Apparently, liberals are to blame for being unwilling to magically create water with reservoirs.


Seriously!!! Anti-science deniers defy logic to prop-up their extraction-based ideolgy

Sent from my BN NookHD+ using Tapatalk


----------



## mamooth (Jun 13, 2015)

Couple of huge fallacies in Boed's other post.

She neglects to mention that most of the wasted water flows from the northern rivers and streams, which can't be economically dammed. And then rages at the liberals for not wasting hundreds of billions on the impossible.

She also curses liberals for not letting rivers dry up, which would be an ecological catastrophe. It's not about smelt, it's about an entire ecosystem.

The biggest laugher was "70% of the water that enters the delta is flushed into the ocean", as if that was something unusual. Gee, maybe itt's because it's a freakin' delta which by definition is right next to the ocean? Where would you expect the water to go, back upriver?


----------



## Crick (Jun 13, 2015)

boedicca said:


> This describes some of the Eco-Nazi campaign to send water to the ocean and create man-made shortages.
> 
> _...
> Working in cooperation with sympathetic judges and friendly federal and state officials, environmental groups have gone to extreme lengths to deprive the San Joaquin Valley, the heart of much of the U.S. agricultural production, of much-needed water. Consider the following actions they took:
> ...



I think you could have just given us a link - per the new rules, we're supposed to minimize significant cut-and-pastes.

Now then, in an attempt to set our boundary values: would you be willing to see the salmon and the smelt abandoned to extinction to provide the citizens of California with a normal water supply?  Your article now states the half the states fresh water is allowed to flow into the sea (just in case someone wasn't thinking too hard about this - the sea is where ALL fresh water flows.  Some of it gets dirtied up by people first, but that's just a slight delay on its way to the sea.). So, how much of that would you be willing to see diverted to human use: agriculture and domestic?


----------



## Dot Com (Jun 13, 2015)

CrusaderFrank said:


> mamooth said:
> 
> 
> > So reservoirs to trap water that doesn't exist would solve the problem?
> ...


What would we do w/o your keen insight? I already posted that MURICA thought, and contemporary conservatives still believe, that this planet is here exclusively for them to treat as a playground, future generations be damned

Sent from my BN NookHD+ using Tapatalk


----------



## boedicca (Jun 13, 2015)

Crick said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > This describes some of the Eco-Nazi campaign to send water to the ocean and create man-made shortages.
> ...





As you mention the link, the salmon and smelt nonsense are addressed there as well.

The state spends $4M per salmon, with the efforts failing.  The Delta Smelt is declining despite diverting an enormous ration of Sierra run off to the Delta (which, btw, is a MAN MADE network).   Without the CA Water Project, the salmon runs and Smelt Home the loons are using as their Poster Causes wouldn't even exist.


----------



## Dot Com (Jun 13, 2015)

Crick said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > This describes some of the Eco-Nazi campaign to send water to the ocean and create man-made shortages.
> ...


True. First thought, when I saw her wall of copynpaste was to report. AFTER doing a facepalm of course. THAT ONE has been here long enough to know better.

Sent from my BN NookHD+ using Tapatalk


----------



## boedicca (Jun 13, 2015)

Dot Com said:


> Crick said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...





It's not surprising that DOTTIE cannot handle reading anything longer that 140 characters and made up of only one syllable words.


----------



## Dot Com (Jun 13, 2015)

boedicca said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > Crick said:
> ...


Its bad form to take, whole cloth, another's work and blanket my thread with it 

Sent from my BN NookHD+ using Tapatalk


----------



## jc456 (Jun 13, 2015)

Dot Com said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...


It was spot on for the OP. So , what's your problem?


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 13, 2015)




----------



## boedicca (Jun 13, 2015)

jc456 said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...




The fact that it is spot on is exactly her problem.  She can't handle anything that harshes her Leftwing Loon Bubble Worldview.


----------



## flacaltenn (Jun 13, 2015)

mamooth said:


> The magical conservative dam project is totally economically unfeasible, of course. But these are conservatives, and they're spending someone else's money, so naturally wasting money is no object.
> 
> There is already much more reservoir capacity than an average year can supply, or even a wet year. It takes a very wet year to exceed capacity. You're proposing a monumentally expensive system for very small returns. And if the year isn't wet, the extra surface area loses more water by evaporation and absorption.
> 
> There are many people who study this carefully, you know. And they think about the costs, which will be totally foreign to conservatives. Maybe you should all fill them in on your "We just hasta build dams everywhere!" brilliant insights.



Your bullshit trolling has no end does it?  80% of the rain in LA basin goes into the sea.  Plenty of canyons with creeks that could store water, Boedicca gave you the lacky Cali attitude towards any water projects. 40 years of ignoring your in state utilities bbecause leftists dont know how things actually work,  is like a real sketchy trip man.........

LA nimrods dont see the damage that they do to MONO lake waaaaay the hell  up in Nevada when THEY suck it dry..  They THINK they are so green and earthy.  They KILL environments hundreds of miles away and never care a whit......


----------



## Dot Com (Jun 13, 2015)

flacaltenn said:


> mamooth said:
> 
> 
> > The magical conservative dam project is totally economically unfeasible, of course. But these are conservatives, and they're spending someone else's money, so naturally wasting money is no object.
> ...


So when your side gets a dose of the truth you term it "trolling"? Funny that.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 13, 2015)

Dot Com said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > mamooth said:
> ...


LOL

He's saying the truth................Your side screws things up...........refuses to plan for the future..............and then blames everything on someone else.............

Pretty pathetic which is by nature liberals.......................

Enjoy the trains................


----------



## Crick (Jun 14, 2015)

Still haven't shaken off that ellipsismania I see.

Let's get honest here.  California is not running out of water from a lack of dams or reservoirs and it's not running out of water because of liberals.  It's running out of water from a fooking drought that the deniers have to deny because it looks vaguely like a consequence of global warming.  Certainly, there'd be no problem if the population of California were one-tenth what it is.  And certainly there'd be no problem for the farmers if they got all the water being wasted making herbal tea and watering urban lawns and certainly there'd be no problem for the urbanites if those damn farmers would just stop growing all that damnable food.  

But none of that's going to happen and the drought doesn't look like it's likely to end for at least a decade and more likely three (or 30 decades) so there are only two solutions: move a LOT of people out of California and do something to end the drought.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 14, 2015)

Crick said:


> Still haven't shaken off that ellipsismania I see.
> 
> Let's get honest here.  California is not running out of water from a lack of dams or reservoirs and it's not running out of water because of liberals.  It's running out of water from a fooking drought that the deniers have to deny because it looks vaguely like a consequence of global warming.  Certainly, there'd be no problem if the population of California were one-tenth what it is.  And certainly there'd be no problem for the farmers if they got all the water being wasted making herbal tea and watering urban lawns and certainly there'd be no problem for the urbanites if those damn farmers would just stop growing all that damnable food.
> 
> But none of that's going to happen and the drought doesn't look like it's likely to end for at least a decade and more likely three (or 30 decades) so there are only two solutions: move a LOT of people out of California and do something to end the drought.


I'll remember this quote from you come the end of the summer and this winter...............


----------



## Crick (Jun 14, 2015)

Are you saying that you believe the drought will not last out the next year?


----------



## Crick (Jun 14, 2015)

You might want to let all these folks know:

Worst Drought in 1 000 Years Predicted for American West

NASA Megadroughts to scorch American West for decades - CNN.com

A megadrought will grip U.S. in the coming decades NASA researchers say - The Washington Post

The worst droughts in 1 000 years may be on the horizon for the American West Public Radio International

U.S. Droughts Will Be the Worst in 1 000 Years - Scientific American

History Travel Arts Science People Places Smithsonian

Drought in the American West Is the Worst Yet to Come Yale Climate Energy Institute

Warming Pushes Western U.S. Toward Driest Period in 1 000 Years - The Earth Institute - Columbia University


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 14, 2015)

Crick said:


> Are you saying that you believe the drought will not last out the next year?









YES!


----------



## Crick (Jun 14, 2015)

This seems a bit more informative:

http://www.oc.nps.edu/webmodules/ENSO/images/we.prec.animate.gif






And it doesn't show much of an effect on California, does it.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 14, 2015)

Global Sea Surface Temperature Anomalies National Centers for Environmental Information NCEI 

pick a time period and animate it and you can see we are in a strong El Nino state...........

History has a habit of repeating itself.........and that history shows Mother Nature sending rain and high surf to California.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 14, 2015)

National Overview - May 2015 National Centers for Environmental Information NCEI 


The May precipitation total for the contiguous U.S. was 4.36 inches, 1.45 inches above average. This was the wettest May on record and the all-time wettest month in 121-years of record keeping. The previous wettest May was in 1957 when 4.24 inches of precipitation was observed. The previous wettest month was October 2009 when 4.29 inches of precipitation was observed.
Wetter than average conditions were widespread across the central United States. Fifteen states from the Great Basin to Mississippi River had precipitation totals that were much above average.Colorado, Oklahoma, and Texas were each record wet for the month. In fact, Oklahoma and Texas each had their wettest month of any month on record with precipitation totals more than twice the long-term average.
The Oklahoma May precipitation total of 14.06 inches bested the previous wettest May of 1957 by 3.52 inches and the previous wettest month of October 1941 by 3.31 inches. TheTexas May precipitation total of 8.93 inches bested the previous wettest May of 1914 by 2.31 inches and the previous wettest month of June 2006 by 2.27 inches.
*The heavy precipitation during May essentially ended the multi-year drought that has plagued the Southern Plains since 2011*. At the beginning of June, only 0.6 percent of Texas and 0.0 percent Oklahoma were in drought. This was the first time since 2010 that the drought footprint in both states has been this low. Although long-term (60+ months) precipitation deficits persist in some locations, some reservoirs have returned to above-average levels after being record and near-record low for the past several years.
The heavy rains in the central U.S. were accompanied by severe weather with over 400 preliminary tornado reports, the most since April 2011. The flooding rains and severe weather resulted in dozens of fatalities and widespread property damage.


----------



## Crick (Jun 14, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Global Sea Surface Temperature Anomalies National Centers for Environmental Information NCEI
> 
> pick a time period and animate it and you can see we are in a strong El Nino state...........
> 
> History has a habit of repeating itself.........and that history shows Mother Nature sending rain and high surf to California.



I'm not challenging your el Nino prediction, I'm challenging the idea that it will end the California drought.

I hope you also realize that a strong el Nino will likely end the Hiatus.


----------



## Dot Com (Jun 14, 2015)

The evidence is there people. More people =  more GHG's = more drought.


----------



## SwimExpert (Jun 14, 2015)

So, drought in the desert is because of global warming.  And it's the same reason why precipitation has been on the decline everywhere else in the country.

May wettest month on record


----------



## Crick (Jun 14, 2015)

Dot Com said:


> The evidence is there people. More people =  more GHG's = more drought.


Global warming does not universally produce more droughts - not at all.  Some regions will see more droughts and some will see more precipitation.  Some will see more storms, some (I suppose) will see less.  There will be an increase in  the AVERAGE intensity of  storms and the incidence of anomalous weather will increase.  But it will not be all droughts.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 14, 2015)

Crick said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Global Sea Surface Temperature Anomalies National Centers for Environmental Information NCEI
> ...


Of course it will...............so are you finally admitting there was a Hiatus........lol

Historically El Nino brings warmer weather and drought to places like India and Austrailia..................

So you will get your warming data that you so desperately are looking for.........

And you will ham it up to no end.................

Are you also admitting the El Nino is Natural made and not by man.


----------



## Crick (Jun 14, 2015)

I have never denied that there has been a hiatus in surface warming.  I have consistently denied and continue to deny that their has actually been a hiatus in global warming.


----------



## SwimExpert (Jun 14, 2015)

Crick said:


> Global warming does not universally produce more droughts - not at all.  Some regions will see more droughts and some will see more precipitation.  Some will see more storms, some (I suppose) will see less.  There will be an increase in  the AVERAGE intensity of  storms and the incidence of anomalous weather will increase.  But it will not be all droughts.



In other words, whatever happens, we'll just call it global warming.  Hotter, colder, wetter, drier....it's all global warming.  Oh, and don't forget prostitution, teenage pregnancy, toe fungus, and stale bread.  That's all global warming too.  In fact, the only thing that global warming can't do is win a Super Bowl for the Cleveland Browns.  Everything else is definitely on the horizon, though.


----------



## Crick (Jun 14, 2015)

Do you think global warming would cause universal droughts?


----------



## SwimExpert (Jun 14, 2015)

Crick said:


> Do you think global warming would cause universal droughts?



I think that anyone who says damn near every _possible_ future event, no matter how inconsistent or contradictory, is attributable to one hypothesized phenomenon, has long divorced themselves from logic and scientific analysis.


----------



## Crick (Jun 14, 2015)

Did you not just read, in this very thread, the list of effects credited to an el Nino?  Dry here, wet there, hot here, cold there.  All from a single cause.


----------



## SwimExpert (Jun 14, 2015)

Crick said:


> Did you not just read, in this very thread, the list of effects credited to an el Nino?  Dry here, wet there, hot here, cold there.  All from a single cause.



And you think that compares, don't you?    You really are a shallow mind, aren't you?

If you blow on a candle, it goes out.  If you blow on another fire, it could fuel the flame.  Those are particular circumstances, i.e. independent events.  Trying to use that as justification for your shitstorm of sloppy and contradictory thinking where every and anything that happens, even if it contradicts your predictions, is spun into "evidence" in support of your hypothesis.

In science, effective experimentation requires identifying a specific hypothesized outcome, and testing that hypothesis.  If your prediction pans out, the experiment supports your hypothesis.  If it your prediction does not prove true, then the results indicate a need for an alternative hypothesis.  That's how things work in the scientific process.  But in Crick's world of dogma, it's an entirely different story.  You start out with an assumption, you claim a certain result will come to pass, and when it doesn't happen you claim to have learned a whole new consequence of global warming.

There is absolutely *nothing *that can happen that you won't attribute to global warming.  You'll hoot and holler all thread long about how a regional drought is caused by global warming, but then when increased precipitation in another area is shown you say that's global warming too.  If precipitation on the rest of the country were normal, that would be global warming too.  If a particular day is really hot, you'll say that's global warming.  And then you'll have the absurdity to say that when someone points to an extra cold winter day as contrary evidence they're confusing weather vs. climate.


----------



## Crick (Jun 14, 2015)

My keyboard got a case of the stutters while working on this note.  Standby


----------



## Crick (Jun 14, 2015)

Crick said:


> Did you not just read, in this very thread, the list of effects credited to an el Nino?  Dry here, wet there, hot here, cold there.  All from a single cause.





SwimExpert said:


> And you think that compares, don't you?  You really are a shallow mind, aren't you?



Not shallow enough to be entertained by an animated emoticon.



SwimExpert said:


> If you blow on a candle, it goes out.  If you blow on another fire, it could fuel the flame.  Those are particular circumstances, i.e. independent events.



No, they are not.  All those effects can and will be produced by a single el Nino. That is the normal course of events.



SwimExpert said:


> Trying to use that as justification for your shitstorm of sloppy and contradictory thinking where every and anything that happens, even if it contradicts your predictions, is spun into "evidence" in support of your hypothesis.



I never suggested any of that was evidence for anything.  I was responding to the contention that global warming would produce more and more droughts worldwide.



SwimExpert said:


> In science, effective experimentation requires identifying a specific hypothesized outcome, and testing that hypothesis.  If your prediction pans out, the experiment supports your hypothesis.



Hypothesized outcomes can be produced by experiments or observed in the environment.  In the study of the Earth's climate - a system far too complex and chaotic to reproduce in a lab setting - you either get to watch what happens outside your door or try to simulate it with a GCM inside a computer.  Reality's not always so tidy.



SwimExpert said:


> If it your prediction does not prove true, then the results indicate a need for an alternative hypothesis.



Predictions of the behavior of a system as complex as the Earth's climate are never going to "prove true" or false.  



SwimExpert said:


> That's how things work in the scientific process.



Science almost NEVER involves proof.  Far more often, it simply involves evidence that must be weighed.



SwimExpert said:


> But in Crick's world of dogma, it's an entirely different story.



I'm not demanding proof.



SwimExpert said:


> You start out with an assumption, you claim a certain result will come to pass, and when it doesn't happen you claim to have learned a whole new consequence of global warming.



I've done no such thing.  If you believe I have, show it to us.



SwimExpert said:


> There is absolutely *nothing *that can happen that you won't attribute to global warming.



This statement is false.  And stupid.



SwimExpert said:


> You'll hoot and holler all thread long about how a regional drought is caused by global warming, but then when increased precipitation in another area is shown you say that's global warming too.



Perhaps you should review the discussion.  We were talking about the effects of el Ninos which DO cause reduced precipitation in some regions and increased precipitation in others.  Then we had the comment that global warming would cause global droughts, with which I took exception.

I'd think you'd want to get a good grip on what has actually happened here before wasting two pages of obloquy chastizing me for things I have not done (and which everyone here has witnessed me 'not doing'.)



SwimExpert said:


> If precipitation on the rest of the country were normal, that would be global warming too.  If a particular day is really hot, you'll say that's global warming.  And then you'll have the absurdity to say that when someone points to an extra cold winter day as contrary evidence they're confusing weather vs. climate.



Let us know when you're done blathering.


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## Dot Com (Jun 14, 2015)

Crick said:


> Crick said:
> 
> 
> > Did you not just read, in this very thread, the list of effects credited to an el Nino?  Dry here, wet there, hot here, cold there.  All from a single cause.
> ...


^ that


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## Muhammed (Jun 14, 2015)

Yurt said:


> we had one of the wettest years a couple of years ago


Bullshit.


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## SwimExpert (Jun 14, 2015)

Crick said:


> Crick said:
> 
> 
> > Did you not just read, in this very thread, the list of effects credited to an el Nino?  Dry here, wet there, hot here, cold there.  All from a single cause.
> ...



....







You're trolling, right?  I mean, you can't _honestly_ believe that any of that was a meaningful or intelligent reply to what I said.  It's like you doubled down on stupidity in the hope that I might confuse being confounded by your complete failure to address what I said with the belief that I might be confused with the actual subject.

You're like a politician who is asked about creating jobs and responds with a diatribe about how Obama is allegedly from Kenya.


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## mamooth (Jun 14, 2015)

SwimExpert said:


> You're trolling, right?



He gave a reply you couldn't address, so you're cutting and running. What, you thought it wasn't obvious?

Stop telling that big lie about how everything supposedly proves global warming. You deniers are the only ones who ever say such a crazy thing, and you deserved to be castigated for constantly using that lie. If you could address the actual issues, you wouldn't have to always fabricate that strawman.


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## Crick (Jun 14, 2015)

Crick said:


> Crick said:
> 
> 
> > Did you not just read, in this very thread, the list of effects credited to an el Nino?  Dry here, wet there, hot here, cold there.  All from a single cause.
> ...





SwimExpert said:


> You're trolling, right?



No.  I'm defending myself from your patently false accusations.



SwimExpert said:


> I mean, you can't _honestly_ believe that any of that was a meaningful or intelligent reply to what I said.



That is exactly what I believe.  And I believe that what you're doing now is counting on people not opening all those quotes to actually read what was said and realize how incredibly dishonest you're willing to get attempting to defend yourself.



SwimExpert said:


> It's like you doubled down on stupidity in the hope that I might confuse being confounded by your complete failure to address what I said with the belief that I might be confused with the actual subject.



Since you've accused me of doing something I did not do, there has never been any reason that I should address your nonsense other than to identify it as such.  It is patent nonsense resulting either from your lack of comprehension or lack of honesty.  Anyone here can go back up the thread (and I heartily invite all to do so) where they will find that I have accurately described my own behavior while you have not.  At all.  



SwimExpert said:


> You're like a politician who is asked about creating jobs and responds with a diatribe about how Obama is allegedly from Kenya.



From my amateur perspective, I have to worry about your sanity.


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## SwimExpert (Jun 14, 2015)

mamooth said:


> He gave a reply you couldn't address, so you're cutting and running.



No, he gave a reply that completely failed to comprehend anything I said in the first place.  Gee, you mean to tell me that an El Nino can both blow out birthday candles and feed a wildfire?  Holy shit, I had no idea!


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## SwimExpert (Jun 14, 2015)

Crick said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> > I mean, you can't _honestly_ believe that any of that was a meaningful or intelligent reply to what I said.
> ...



Well that says it all.  You have no idea how absolutely stupid your response was.  You think it was intelligent.  



> And I believe that what you're doing now is counting on people not opening all those quotes to actually read what was said



I hope they do.  Starting with yourself.  Because you didn't even comprehend what I was saying in the first place.


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## Dot Com (Jun 14, 2015)

State Senate advances sweeping climate change legislation - LA Times


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## mamooth (Jun 14, 2015)

SwimExpert said:


> No, he gave a reply that completely failed to comprehend anything I said in the first place.  Gee, you mean to tell me that an El Nino can both blow out birthday candles and feed a wildfire?  Holy shit, I had no idea!



Why are you babbling about candles so much? You don't come across as rational.

There are different areas on the earth, and warming or an El Nino can affect different areas differently. A third grader could grasp that. Why can't you?

It's difficult to have discussions with you when you can't successfully reason at even a grade-school level. It's hard to believe you could actually screw up such a simple concept so badly, which is why we think you're being deliberately obtuse, all so you can justify your big flaming lie about "you say everything proves warming."


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## flacaltenn (Jun 14, 2015)

Crick said:


> You might want to let all these folks know:
> 
> Worst Drought in 1 000 Years Predicted for American West
> 
> ...



Take the last one..  Follow it back to the original study.   ALL drought deficits meaningfully predicted are for 2050 and beyond.   NOT TODAY..  and I need you to find the corresponding predicted range of temperature anomalies that these models produced for 2050..  IF you can find those in this study, we can chat. Otherwise its not reproducible science and merely a bunch of assertions made without specific description......
Unprecedented 21st century drought risk in the American Southwest and Central Plains Science Advances
The study is here...,    dont hurt yourself.  Time for all the cut and pasters to sweat a bit.


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## skookerasbil (Jun 15, 2015)

The OP is full of shit >>>>  [URL=http://s42.photobucket.com/user/baldaltima/media/drought-1929-1978-b-3.png.html]
	
[/URL]

Drought in California ( and everywhere else ) has come and gone since the beginning of time. The AGW fraudsters want you to think this is some kind of new phenomenon. Because that's what they do!!


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## skookerasbil (Jun 15, 2015)

[URL=http://s42.photobucket.com/user/baldaltima/media/Modern-Day-Noahs-Ark.jpg.html]
	
[/URL]


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## Uncensored2008 (Jun 15, 2015)

No doubt this makes you leftists cry.

Strong El Ni o growing in likelihood drought relief hoped for San Diego Sun Times


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## jc456 (Jun 15, 2015)

Crick said:


> I have never denied that there has been a hiatus in surface warming.  I have consistently denied and continue to deny that their has actually been a hiatus in global warming.


holy crap is that a bunch of pebbles thrown in the water.


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## jc456 (Jun 15, 2015)

Crick said:


> Crick said:
> 
> 
> > Did you not just read, in this very thread, the list of effects credited to an el Nino?  Dry here, wet there, hot here, cold there.  All from a single cause.
> ...


Let us know when you're done blathering, holy crap, that's all that post was.  BTW this comment:
'  If precipitation on the rest of the country were normal, that would be global warming too.  If a particular day is really hot, you'll say that's global warming.  And then you'll have the absurdity to say that when someone points to an extra cold winter day as contrary evidence they're confusing weather vs. climate"

This is spot fricken on my friend spot fricken on. You may not like that, but dude, that is a fricken fact.

Now anytime you wish to actually present any snow flake of data from your mountain let me know.


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## SeaPony (Jun 19, 2015)

Dot Com said:


> California Facing Worst Drought on Record | NOAA Climate.gov
> 
> 
> > The most populated state in the country is facing what may be its worst drought in a century of record-keeping. On January 20, the governor of California declared a state of emergency, urging everyone to begin conserving water. Water levels in all but a few reservoirs in the state are less than 50% of capacity, mountains are nearly bare of snow except at the highest elevations, and the fire risk is extreme.  In Nevada, the situation is much the same.
> ...


Completely nothing to do with 'climate change' even if it was real. Californians are using too much water since the population of CA has sky-rocketed and they have not built a new reservoir since 2003 because the trendy people want to 'protect the environment'. There would be hardly no problems if they carried on building reservoirs but they stopped it.


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## Crick (Jun 19, 2015)

California may have too many people and may have failed to properly design their water system, but they are most assuredly suffering a drought and that drought was made more likely and likely to be more severe by climate change.


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## SeaPony (Jun 19, 2015)

Crick said:


> California may have too many people and may have failed to properly design their water system, but they are most assuredly suffering a drought and that drought was made more likely and likely to be more severe by climate change.


So you believe in that nonsense? This drought would not be 100th of what it is if alarmists like you would of let the construction of new reservoirs go ahead. Droughts have happened since the beginning of time why are you contributing any extreme of weather to climate change? Because TV told you so?


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## Crick (Jun 19, 2015)

A drought is a shortage of precipitation.  Period.  Check your dictionary if you don't want to believe me.  The only thing humans have done that _might_ have affected it, is emit gigatonnes of GHGs.  BTW, reservoirs don't make it rain and they don't keep people away.


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## SeaPony (Jun 19, 2015)

Crick said:


> A drought is a shortage of precipitation.  Period.  Check your dictionary if you don't want to believe me.  The only thing humans have done that _might_ have affected it, is emit gigatonnes of GHGs.  BTW, reservoirs don't make it rain and they don't keep people away.


Reservoirs store water for when there is a shortage of rain? Over use of the underground water systems and over farming are why there is a problem. Your propaganda climate lies are unreal.


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## Crick (Jun 19, 2015)

Again, if you will simply access the dictionary of your choice, you will find that the term "drought" describes a weather condition - not a water shortage on the ground.  If someone were to drain all the reservoirs in, say, Indiana, it would not be creating a drought.  Regardless how much reservoir capacity the Californians might have, the drop in PRECIPITATION they have been suffering is a DROUGHT.

And you seem to be new here.  I would advise you getting your ducks in a longer and straighter row before taking the step of calling someone a liar.


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## SeaPony (Jun 19, 2015)

A small drought, droughts have happened before humans existed but the drought has been worsened by 200X due to over farming and the lack of reservoir building.
You seem to enjoy accepting state doctrine? Why is that?


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## Crick (Jun 19, 2015)

My comments here have no relation to "state doctrine".  I strongly suggest you debate the topic, not what you seem to believe are my motives. 

I believe the world has been getting warmer since roughly the beginning of the 20th century because that is what the data show.  For instance:







And I believe the primary cause of that warming has been the greenhouse effect acting on the increased CO2 in the Earth's atmosphere because of this:






and this:






I have now repeatedly commented that the people of California may have inadequately prepared for their population vs annual rainfall situation, but that has no bearing on whether or not they are suffering a drought and whether or not global warming made their drought more likely or likely to be more intense and long-lasting.


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## Old Rocks (Jun 19, 2015)

*U.S. Drought Monitor*



U.S. Drought Monitor U.S. Drought Portal

California Drought

*Mr. SeaPony, whether you wish to  believe it or not, California is suffering from a drought that has existed for the last four years. In fact, that drought now extends to the whole west of the Rockies.*


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## eagle1462010 (Jun 19, 2015)




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## eagle1462010 (Jun 19, 2015)

IPCC SONG..............EN JOY


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## Dot Com (Jun 19, 2015)

SeaPony said:


> A small drought, droughts have happened before humans existed but the drought has been worsened by 200X due to over farming and the lack of reservoir building.
> You seem to enjoy accepting state doctrine? Why is that?


link? Those are the norm in some sub-forums on the board like this one


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## Old Rocks (Jun 19, 2015)

Mr. Eagle, climate changes in Europe do not represent the whole of the world. Trying to present them as if they do is quite dishonest. The MWP was not uniform across the whole globe, and varied in time and location. The overall warming, at the most, was about one quarter of what we have already experianced on a global scale.


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## Dot Com (Jun 19, 2015)

Lake Mead About to Hit a Critical New Low as 15-Year Drought Continues in Southwest


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## eagle1462010 (Jun 19, 2015)

Old Rocks said:


> Mr. Eagle, climate changes in Europe do not represent the whole of the world. Trying to present them as if they do is quite dishonest. The MWP was not uniform across the whole globe, and varied in time and location. The overall warming, at the most, was about one quarter of what we have already experianced on a global scale.


Hawaii doesn't represent the earth then does it..........................

Neither does a few trees....................

Neither does changing the data and caught lying about it...................

The GW cult manipulated the data and got caught doing so...........and still people push the HOCKEY stick from cutting the trees and saying SEE WE TOLD YA.........................

Lying about it and repeating the Lies is utter BS.........and just hurts your cause...............


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## eagle1462010 (Jun 19, 2015)

The dumb asses in California fought this for over a decade...........and now when they are on water conversation they finally go..............

YOU CAN BUILD IT.............................

Perhaps they should be wearing their signs...............


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## jc456 (Jun 19, 2015)

Crick said:


> My comments here have no relation to "state doctrine".  I strongly suggest you debate the topic, not what you seem to believe are my motives.
> 
> I believe the world has been getting warmer since roughly the beginning of the 20th century because that is what the data show.  For instance:
> 
> ...


your quote: "*And I believe the primary cause of that warming has been the greenhouse effect acting on the increased CO2 in the Earth's atmosphere because of this:"*
And you have no evidence that would lead you to that conclusion. At least you still haven't provided any on this forum. So feel free any time to put up that information and share with the class.

As for the people of California, the problem with your statement is that you keep using the term drought and accusing global warming.  Again, you have no basis for the claim.  So until you provide that basis you keep posting up your opinion that isn't supported.


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## jc456 (Jun 19, 2015)

Old Rocks said:


> *U.S. Drought Monitor*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


with no evidence that it is due to global warming.  hmmmmm?

And if I read SeaPony's post correctly, he is merely pointing out the affects of the drought conditions would not have to impact the people had those said politicians done the right thing with their water.  So the affects today are due to the lack of action by the politicians.  right?


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## Crick (Jun 20, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


>



Why do you put up regional data against global data?  Do you not understand the difference?


----------



## SwimExpert (Jun 20, 2015)

Crick said:


> California may have too many people and may have failed to properly design their water system, but they are most assuredly suffering a drought



Yes.  Drought can be independently observed and verified.



> and that drought was made more likely and likely to be more severe by climate change.



And that is where you devolve into a religious belief.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 20, 2015)

Crick said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


Why did they feel the need to change the data to give people like you the Hockey Stick?  They change data to fit their agenda, so their creditability is shot to hell............................................................................................................................
............................................................................
............................................................................
Your selling tainted goods.................................
.............................................................................


----------



## Crick (Jun 20, 2015)

Old Rocks said:


> Mr. Eagle, climate changes in Europe do not represent the whole of the world. Trying to present them as if they do is quite dishonest. The MWP was not uniform across the whole globe, and varied in time and location. The overall warming, at the most, was about one quarter of what we have already experianced on a global scale.





eagle1462010 said:


> Hawaii doesn't represent the earth then does it..........................



Actually, it does.  The Keeling curve data was originallly collected from the summit of  Mauna Loa where, beginning in 1958, it samples air moving across the Pacific.  Keeling originally took data from Big Sur near Monterey, the rain forests of Olympic Peninsula, and high mountain forests in Arizona and the South Pole.  Funding cuts forced him to abandon collections at the South Pole but the Mauna Loa observatory has made continuous observations since Keeling began them in 1958.  Due to their significance, NOAA took over the effort in the 1970s and takes CO2 measurements at over 100 locations worldwide



eagle1462010 said:


> Neither does a few trees.



That should have said "neither _do_ a few trees".  What few trees would that be?



eagle1462010 said:


> Neither does changing the data and caught lying about it.



Please show us where anyone has been caught lying about changing data.  Anyone.  Anywhere.



eagle1462010 said:


> The GW cult manipulated the data and got caught doing so.



The holders of the world's temperature datasets have done their utmost to establish the accuracy of their data.  That has involved making corrections.  Those corrections have invariably been done publicly and fully explained.  The world's climate scientists, whose life's work depend on the accuracy of those data, have not voiced a single concern about the necessity or correctness of those adjustments.  Your statement is thus a complete lie.



eagle1462010 said:


> and still people push the HOCKEY stick from cutting the trees and saying SEE WE TOLD YA.



Hockey stick-shaped graphs of temperature are still valid because that is what the world's temperature has done.



eagle1462010 said:


> Lying about it and repeating the Lies is utter BS and just hurts your cause.



The only one lying in this post is you.  If you believe otherwise, show us why.  Identify specifically what information you're talking about and prove your charge of lying.

Otherwise, withdraw your charge.  And if you can not or will not provide supporting evidence and you will not withdraw the charges (which is precisely what I expect) we will all know you for what you are.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jun 20, 2015)

Crick said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



Is Texas regional or global?


----------



## Crick (Jun 20, 2015)

What's your point Frank?


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jun 20, 2015)

Crick said:


> What's your point Frank?



You told us the floods in Texas were caused by your God, the CO2 molecule, remember?


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 20, 2015)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Crick said:
> 
> 
> > What's your point Frank?
> ...


Yep he did...............LOL

El Nino didn't have anything to do with the shifting of the jet streams.....


----------



## Crick (Jun 20, 2015)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Crick said:
> 
> 
> > What's your point Frank?
> ...



No, I do not remember that because I never said any such thing.  I stated that there was a possibility that global warming was responsible for increasing the likelihood of such an event taking place and for increasing its intensity or duration.


----------



## Dot Com (Jun 20, 2015)

Crick said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Crick said:
> ...


correct. The more gigatonnes of GHG's we throw up into the atmosphere, which is increasing geometrically, the more unpredictable the climate thus- Climate Change


----------



## Dot Com (Jun 24, 2015)

and so it begins

Water level in reservoir formed by Hoover Dam dips to record low - Yahoo News


----------

