# The Scientific poof that GOD exists without a doubt.



## LittleNipper (May 29, 2021)

The Physicist Hugh Ross simply explains how the Universe proves that GOD must exist.


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## Prof.Lunaphile (May 29, 2021)

Alright - I have been waiting for this!

Thank you for directing my attention to this.


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## Hollie (May 29, 2021)

Oh, gawd. Yet another in the endless "proof of the gawds" threads that always fail to provide proof.


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## BULLDOG (May 29, 2021)

I watched the first 10 minutes. If God existed before time, why couldn't the cause of the Big Bang have existed before time?


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## LittleNipper (May 29, 2021)

Hollie said:


> Oh, gawd. Yet another in the endless "proof of the gawds" threads that always fail to provide proof.


Hollie, First there is only one GOD, and HE is not constrained because HE created TIME; as well as, SPACE and MATTER. You are constrained, because you must willingly take time to view data. If you choose to ignore select data, then you do so most likely to continue to dwell in your own comfortable ideology.


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## ViewFromAbove (May 29, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> I watched the first 10 minutes. If God existed before time, why couldn't the cause of the Big Bang have existed before time?


Depends on how one DEFINES "time"!
If your definition includes energy before the hypothesized Big Bang, then that's another "matter" (pun intended).


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## ViewFromAbove (May 29, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Hollie said:
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Please don't make up stuff to cover your ignorance. The concept of "God" is just that, a CONCEPT. Reality is another realm that human concepts try to reflect.


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## BULLDOG (May 29, 2021)

ViewFromAbove said:


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The same way you do.


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## LittleNipper (May 29, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> I watched the first 10 minutes. If God existed before time, why couldn't the cause of the Big Bang have existed before time?





Prof.Lunaphiles said:


> Alright - I have been waiting for this!
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> Thank you for directing my attention to this.


I have always enjoyed science. I believe that atheists have progressed by suppressing real science and thought ----- replacing it with primarily select memorization.


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## BULLDOG (May 29, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


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> > I watched the first 10 minutes. If God existed before time, why couldn't the cause of the Big Bang have existed before time?
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Ok. That didn't answer my question though.


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## Hollie (May 29, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


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“Because I say so”, is not a convincing argument. There are many claims to many gods and I see nothing that supports your version of one (or three) gods. 

Secondly, a YouTube video is not data.

I’m not clear what ideology you suspect me of being comfortable with. I might be comfortable with the ideology of supportable facts but that would leave me uncomfortable with the ideology of unsupported dogma.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (May 29, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> The Physicist Hugh Ross simply explains how the Universe proves that GOD must exist.


Proof of theists’ propensity for confirmation bias fallacies.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (May 29, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> BULLDOG said:
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At least you’re consistent at being wrong in your beliefs.


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## LittleNipper (May 29, 2021)

ViewFromAbove said:


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Is _E_ = _mc2 _a concept?  GOD reveals HIMSELF ----- In the beginning (TIME), GOD created the heavens (SPACE), and the earth (MATTER). I'm trying assist you out of your own ignorance.


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## LittleNipper (May 29, 2021)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


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## LittleNipper (May 29, 2021)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


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How so, exactly? Please view:


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## Hollie (May 29, 2021)




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## C_Clayton_Jones (May 29, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


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This idiocy is also in the wrong forum – it has nothing to do with ‘science.’


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## LittleNipper (May 29, 2021)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


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Wrong forum, wrong forum, wrong forum.  All that is being talked about is science. And if GOD exists --- and I believe HE does, then HE is the author of everything scientific (among other things). You simply wish to do away with GOD for whatever reason, but it certainly has nothing to do with science and it seems likely personal on your part.


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## progressive hunter (May 29, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> I watched the first 10 minutes. If God existed before time, why couldn't the cause of the Big Bang have existed before time?


when would it have happened if time didnt exist??


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## LittleNipper (May 29, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


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I would say that GOD is the cause of any Big Bang ---- and HE existed before time...  Does this make you happy?


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## GLASNOST (May 29, 2021)

In his very introduction, this idiot makes it clear that his agenda is not with proving God exists but mixing the Bible with superstition to prove that Jesus Christ is saviour. This is Christian crap.


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## GLASNOST (May 29, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> I would say that GOD is the cause of any Big Bang ---- and HE existed before time...  Does this make you happy?


I would say that in a time long, long ago when Hand People walked the earth it was they who caused the Big Bang by stamping in puddles in mass coordination. I have proof here below in the form of a film footage demonstration that was smuggled out from the secretive remnants of those very people who still live on Tralfamadore.


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## rddean (May 29, 2021)

Science is like never ending research

God is like faith

I don’t see the connection


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## GLASNOST (May 29, 2021)

rddean said:


> Science is like never ending research
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> God is like faith
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> I don’t see the connection


Nor do I. Science seeks *proof* while faith ignores *proof*.


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## LittleNipper (May 29, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> GLASNOST said:
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> > In his very introduction, this asshole makes it clear that his agenda is not with proving God exists but mixing the Bible with superstition to prove that Jesus Christ is saviour. This is Christian crap.


First off, I am very annoyed at your uncivil label of an individual, who certainly has done nothing to you that should cause you to be so offensive towards him. The Messiah is the SAVIOR, and yes that is offensive to many people ----- because they mainly feel that they are not in need of ONE. However, that aside ---- to suggest that any mention of GOD or the CREATOR is unscientific, is just as bias as saying that one cannot perform any experiments without some mention of GOD.


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## LittleNipper (May 29, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> LittleNipper said:
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> > I would say that GOD is the cause of any Big Bang ---- and HE existed before time...  Does this make you happy?
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rddean said:


> Science is like never ending research
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> God is like faith
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> I don’t see the connection


Blind faith isn't Christianity. The fact that JESUS arose from the dead and was seen by many individuals is substantiated factual historic reality. Christian faith is when one places his trust in GOD's hands and is rewarded by results. The results in turn causes faith to grow.


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## LittleNipper (May 29, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


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Nonsense! Faith never ignores evidence. Faith will not embrace unsubstantiated theory as fact.


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## GLASNOST (May 29, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> First off, I am very annoyed at your uncivil label of an individual, who certainly has done nothing to you that should cause you to be so offensive towards him. The Messiah is the SAVIOR, and yes that is offensive to many people ----- because they mainly feel that they are not in need of ONE. However, that aside ---- to suggest that any mention of GOD or the CREATOR is unscientific, is just as bias as saying that one cannot perform any experiments without some mention of GOD.


I have edited out the _"uncivil label"_ but he has most certainly _"done me_ [and every living creature on this earth] _wrong"_ by denying proof and spreading superstition. And contrary to your OP headline he does not set out to prove god but to prove Christ is the saviour and at the same time slanders all other religious faith by default. Science, on the other hand, is intent on finding answers to life by honest, methodical means and while the question of whether or not there is any god, they have unequivocally proven that the Bible is superstitious nonsense. This means, of course, that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are howling at the moon.


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## BULLDOG (May 29, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


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So how do you know God caused the Big Bang? How do you know God was the only thing that existed before the Big Bang"


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## BULLDOG (May 29, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> LittleNipper said:
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At least you present some proof, which is more than the OP did.


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## GLASNOST (May 29, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Nonsense! Faith never ignores evidence. Faith will not embrace unsubstantiated theory as fact.


Bible-based religions are nothing but *"unsubstantiated theory"*. That is the definition of *"faith"* - to believe in something that is unsubstantiated.


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## GLASNOST (May 29, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Blind faith isn't Christianity. The fact that JESUS arose from the dead and was seen by many individuals is substantiated factual historic reality. Christian faith is when one places his trust in GOD's hands and is rewarded by results. The results in turn causes faith to grow.


I once knew a gypsy woman in Romania who could the same. Golly! Maybe she's god!


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## Hollie (May 30, 2021)

Page 2.

Are we going to see some scientific proof soon?


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## LittleNipper (May 30, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


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BULLDOG said:


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Since GOD says that HE created time, before time there just as GOD. And in fact GOD in HIS word and CHRIST insisted that everything  (material, spiritual, foundational, everything) that exists ----- exists because GOD created it. And before HIM there is no other god. I can believe the Bible because I can believe Jesus the MESSIAH/CHRIST.


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## LittleNipper (May 30, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> LittleNipper said:
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> > Blind faith isn't Christianity. The fact that JESUS arose from the dead and was seen by many individuals is substantiated factual historic reality. Christian faith is when one places his trust in GOD's hands and is rewarded by results. The results in turn causes faith to grow.
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I know of no one who could bring a person back to life after 3 days dead.


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## LittleNipper (May 30, 2021)

Hollie said:


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> Are we going to see some scientific proof soon?


I believe you have seen proof. The question is will you accept it? Please consider looking here: The Search For God - Proving God Exists With Peer-Reviewed Science


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## Hollie (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


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I see no reason to accept your beliefs about seeing proof should be imposed on me.

YouTube has videos with similar claims to proof of the Loch Ness monster, Bigfoot, space alien abductions, etc. Do you you agree that you have seen proof of those things?


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## Hollie (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


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Correct. Which is why it has never happened. You may have a need and desire to believe that Jesus returned from the dead from that tale _*requires*_ a precommitment to belief in the supernatural and a willingness to accept some pretty outrageous leaps of faith.


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## Hollie (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


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There is no peer reviewed science there.


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## LittleNipper (May 30, 2021)

Hollie said:


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If it happened all the time, what would make it miraculous? Over 500 people saw the risen Christ. People also witnessed Lazarus being risen from the dead by Jesus. Obviously, it didn't happen yesterday. But then the religious world was turned on its ear. The Egyptian, Greek, and Roman gods all faded in the light of CHRIST. No one is sacrificing babies to idols (at least not to the extent it once was common practice). People who don't accept CHRIST have even been influenced in ways they don't even realize...


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## BULLDOG (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


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Got it. You believe it because it's written in a book by people who weren't there and lots of years after any described events were supposed to have happened. Well; I can't argue about something with that much solid proof, now can I.


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## BULLDOG (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


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Me too.


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## Hollie (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


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It never happened all the time. It never happened once. There’s no “miracle” in something that never happened.

No, there is nothing to suggest 500 people saw a dead Jesus strolling around. You have a need and a compulsive desire to *want* to believe that fable. Fables written 100 years after the death of someone named Jesus are classic examples of word of mouth tales evolving over time as the tales are recounted and changed by retelling.

Robin Hood was a fictional character. Did you know that?

If 500 people claiming to see Bigfoot walking around, is that proof of Bigfoot?


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## Hollie (May 30, 2021)

Now on to page 3. No proof of the gods.

It really is time to move this thread to the religion forum.


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## alang1216 (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


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This is "proof" of a creator but there is no obvious connection to the God of the Bible or any other God or gods.


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## GLASNOST (May 30, 2021)

Hollie said:


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You are being much too unrealistic now! Did you not even take a look at the thumbnail picture of the video he posted in the OP? Gosh! Just look at the Adam & Eve paper doll cuttings he's holding up for everyone to see! If you can't accept that as *"scientific proof"* then I really don't know what will satisfy you! Do you think everyone should witness a burning bush with their very own eyes? God didn't create unlimited time (or did he?)  so he can't reach out to everyone on an individual basis.  Once was enough! If you lack faith - faith - faith to trust in what those superstitions old geezers wrote a couple of thousands of years ago then you need to have the fear of God instilled in you  .....


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## Crepitus (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> The Physicist Hugh Ross simply explains how the Universe proves that GOD must exist.


We've been over this.  Proof that god exists is actually proof that he doesn't.


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## GLASNOST (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> I can believe the Bible because I can believe Jesus the MESSIAH/CHRIST.


So ... in order to believe in the Bible, all you need is to believe that Jesus was born to a virgin woman who was impregnated by a ghost .... and to believe that Jesus was born to a virgin woman who was impregnated by a ghost all you need is to believe in the Bible.








LittleNipper said:


> TI see *no reason to accept* your beliefs about seeing *proof should be imposed on me*.



No, none of us thought that *PROOF of the Bible being complete fiction* could be imposed on those who'd rather accept superstition.


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## Hellbilly (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> The Physicist Hugh Ross simply explains how the Universe proves that GOD must exist.


Why does the christian God not have a first name?


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## GLASNOST (May 30, 2021)

Billyboom said:


> Why does the christian God not have a first name?


Jesus H. senior.


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## GLASNOST (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


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Oh, I realize from where we got our influence ...






I also realize from where people who accept CHRIST got their influence ...


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## there4eyeM (May 30, 2021)

The only thing that has been proven is the limitation of thought and language.


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## LittleNipper (May 30, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


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Where do you get your information? The NEWEST book of the New Testament is Revelation.And that is written about 95AD. This was taken down by John. Jesus went to the cross about 30 or 33 AD (we will one day know with certainty). So this book came to be about 65 roughly years after the Crucifixion. And this book is primarily regarding the saints of that day and prophecy with regards to the future.
The four Gospels have historically always been accepted to have been compiled within mere decades of the Resurrection.
From GOT ANSWERS.COM
It is important to understand that the dating of the Gospels and other New Testament books is at best an educated guess and at worst foolish speculation. For example, suggested dates for the writing of the Gospel of Matthew range from as early as A.D. 40 to as late as A.D. 140. This wide range of dates from scholars indicates the subjective nature of the dating process. Generally, one will find that the presuppositions of the scholars greatly influence their dating of the Gospels.

For example, in the past many liberal theologians have argued for a later dating of many of the New Testament books than is probably warranted or valid, in an attempt to discredit or cast doubts upon the content and authenticity of the Gospel accounts. On the other hand, there are many scholars who look to a much earlier dating of the New Testament books. There are some that believe there is good evidence to support the view that the whole New Testament, including Revelation, was written prior to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. It is our contention that the evidence supports the earlier dating more than it does the later dating.

There are scholars who believe the Gospel of Matthew was written as early as ten to twelve years after the death of Christ. Those who hold to this earlier dating of Matthew believe he first wrote his Gospel in Aramaic, and then it was later translated into Greek. One of the evidences of this earlier dating of Matthew’s Gospel is that early church leaders such as Irenaeus, Origen, and Eusebius recorded that Matthew first wrote his Gospel for Jewish believers while he was still in Israel. In fact Eusebius (a bishop of Caesarea and known as the father of church history) reported that Matthew wrote his Gospel before he left Israel to preach in other lands, which Eusebius says happened about 12 years after the death of Christ. Some scholars believe that this would place the writing of Matthew as early as A.D. 40-45 and as late as A.D. 55.

Even if the Gospels were not written until 30 years after Christ’s death, that would still place the writing of them prior to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. This presents no major problem with their authority or accuracy. Passing on oral traditions and teachings was commonplace in the Jewish culture of that day, and memorization was highly cultivated and practiced. Also, the fact that even at that time there would have been a considerable number of eyewitnesses around to dispute and discredit any false claims, and the fact that none of the “hard sayings” of Jesus were taken from the Gospel accounts, further supports their accuracy. Had the Gospels been edited before being written down, as some liberal scholars contend, then it was a very poor job. The writers left far too many “hard sayings,” and culturally unacceptable and politically incorrect accounts that would need explaining. An example of this is that the first witnesses of the resurrection were women, who were not considered reliable witnesses in the culture of that day.

The bottom line for Christians is this—whether the Gospels were written soon after the death of Christ, or not until 30 years after His death, does not really matter, because their accuracy and authority does not rest on when they were written but on what they are: the divinely inspired Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16). We should also remember that one of the promises Jesus gave His disciples was that He would send them “another helper,” the Holy Spirit, who would teach them all things and “bring to your remembrance all that I said to you” (John 14:26). So, whether it was few years or many after Jesus’ death that the Gospels were written, we can have total confidence and faith in their completeness and accuracy, knowing that they were written by “men moved by the Holy Spirit” (2 Peter 1:21), who accurately recorded the very words of God.

LET ME SAY IN CLOSING! Jesus himself is recorded to have said (found in John 14:26)  But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and *will remind you of everything I have said to you*. 
In other words, JESUS wanted them to eventually record what HE said. And to whom was HE speaking --- but to HIS Apostles and close disciples. So they would write it down when and as the HOLY SPIRIT moved them to write. I'm presenting to you the facts. It is up to you to consider them.


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## GLASNOST (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> *Where do you get your information?* The NEWEST book of the New Testament is Revelation.And that is written about 95AD. This was taken down by John. Jesus went to the cross about 30 or 33 AD (we will one day know with certainty). So this book came to be about 65 roughly years after the Crucifixion. And this book is primarily regarding the saints of that day and prophecy with regards to the future.


Now ain't that funny. You want to know where Bible skeptics get their information. Well, shit! There are several gazillion tons of independent, *non-partisan scientific studies* that have been made that disprove the biblical fairy tale.  Gather them up and it makes me wonder how you dare ask such a question. 

I could ask you the same question but I know your answer even before you utter it: "The proof is in the bible".  It is the equivalent of saying, *"Cause I say so!"*


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## LittleNipper (May 30, 2021)

Hollie said:


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Are there 500 who say they saw Big Foot?


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## LittleNipper (May 30, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> LittleNipper said:
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> ...


GEE, hardly several gazillion tons of independent, "non-partisan scientific studies".  Shame they are all atheists/agnostics. So much for not having an ax to grind...


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## Hollie (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


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Not sure. There is no telling how many people, if any, actually claimed to have seen a corpse walking around. 

What is the threshold for unverified claims where anyone should accept the claim as true?


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## Hollie (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


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The obvious problem with the above is that there is no reason for anyone not having a predisposition to Christianity to accept that someone named John actually wrote any of the fables that would become the bible.

This is probably a good time to move this thread to the religion forum.


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## BULLDOG (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


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you really should read up on the committee  that compiled, and the opposing political factions that negotiated what would be included or excluded.


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## BULLDOG (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


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I'm sure 500 is an extremely small estimation of Bigfoot sightings.


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## Hollie (May 30, 2021)

Page 4.

Can we have the proof, now?


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## LittleNipper (May 30, 2021)

Hollie said:


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Visit a secret Christian church in Communist China today.


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## frigidweirdo (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> The Physicist Hugh Ross simply explains how the Universe proves that GOD must exist.



Damn those scientific poofs.

I mean, if you believe this nonsense, you're really not trying hard to use that brain, are you?


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## LittleNipper (May 30, 2021)

Hollie said:


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It sure doesn't take much to make you uncomfortable ---- still small voice, perhaps.


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## LittleNipper (May 30, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


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So, here is a atheist trying harder, I suppose:


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## frigidweirdo (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


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Sorry, because of its privacy settings, this porn video cannot be played here. 

I'm not arguing with a video. Try making YOUR ARGUMENT.


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## Hollie (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


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Do the Chinese have proof of the gods?

You could have saved a lot of bandwidth by announcing that. 

Which secret church in China has the proof, Address?


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## Hollie (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


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Gee, whiz. 

Proof you can't provide and YouTube videos that don't play.

Another thread that's a total fraud.


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## BULLDOG (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


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Sorry, but I don't have time for a trip to China today, but it's your thread. It's your job to supply the proof


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## LittleNipper (May 30, 2021)

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The fact of their love of GOD in a hostile environment is proof of GOD. And the hostile environment they encounter, is founded on control hungry atheistic denial of GOD. And their persistence in such adversity is encouraged by the GOD's love.


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## LittleNipper (May 30, 2021)

Here is a real scientific explanation of the UNIVERSE:


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## frigidweirdo (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


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So, if I love Harry Potter, it's proof that Harry Potter is real?


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## LittleNipper (May 30, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


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Would you die for Harry Potter?


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## Hollie (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


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On the other hand, that the gods have abandoned them in a hostile environment is proof the gods don’t exist.

Can this fraud thread now be moved to the religion forum?


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## LittleNipper (May 30, 2021)

Okay, here is an atheist who believes the UNIVERSE came from nothing:


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## LittleNipper (May 30, 2021)

Hollie said:


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Actually, GOD seems to be changing their environment, one soul at a time. The Christian church in China seems to be growing very fast. Please consider:


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## Hollie (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Okay, here is an atheist who believes the UNIVERSE came from nothing:


Here is a religionist who wants your forgiveness… and money.


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## Hollie (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


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Why is this thread in the science forum?

Proselytizing doesn’t belong in the science forum.


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## Hollie (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Hollie said:
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## BULLDOG (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Hollie said:
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No more than all of Jim Jones' followers drinking poison is proof of God. Fanatics do all kinds of crazy stuff based on their religion. That doesn't make their religion true.


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## Hollie (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> frigidweirdo said:
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> > LittleNipper said:
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People would die for Marshall Applewhite. He must be god.


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## frigidweirdo (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> frigidweirdo said:
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Why would you die for any fictional character?

In fact why would you die to make rich people richer?

Such are the questions in the modern world.


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## GLASNOST (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > If 500 people claiming to see Bigfoot walking around, is that proof of Bigfoot?
> ...


1,687 people saw Big Foot at the last count.


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## GLASNOST (May 30, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> GLASNOST said:
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Gee, what percentage of atheists/agnostics do you think based their opinion upon non-partisan scientific studies? Duh. Shame that 100 % of bible bashers ignore non-partisan scientific studies and base their opinion on .... uhh .... errr .... superstition. Duh again.


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## GLASNOST (May 30, 2021)

Hollie said:


> .....  There is no telling how many people, if any, actually  claimed to have seen a corpse walking around.


Well, Hollywood has done many films on the walking dead so maybe that is the proof the OP is talking about? Or maybe he gets his conviction from the last stroll of the condemned *"dead man walking"*? Gee whiz! Maybe Jesus' well-recorded criminal activities are what got him into hot water. Ya' think?


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## emilynghiem (May 31, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> I watched the first 10 minutes. If God existed before time, why couldn't the cause of the Big Bang have existed before time?


Exactly BULLDOG 
No matter how we define God, the Universe or the Source of all Life,
there can always be something that caused that thing to come into existence.

The Universe, including God, can thus be seen as eternal or infinite, self existent, with no beginning and no end.

Since we as humans are finite, in knowledge language and perception, whatever is true about God, the Universe, or Life is faith based, can neither be proven nor disproven to exist or not.

Since this is faith based, what  we rely on is whether we can reach agreement on what is true or right.

As long as we agree that God represents the greatest good or collective truth, we can still communicate and operate effectively. Regardless of proof or not.


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## Hollie (May 31, 2021)

Page 5.

Still no proof of the gods.


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## LittleNipper (May 31, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> LittleNipper said:
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One is to keep one's eyes on the SAVIOR and not on men.  Men like Carl Sagan and Darwin are just as likely to steer people into believing ERROR. Men are imperfect as are their theories (Computer generated universe indeed)...


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## LittleNipper (May 31, 2021)

Hollie said:


> Page 5.
> 
> Still no proof of the gods.


Your god is Darwin. My GOD created biological life and the Universe. Your's is dead. My GOD is alive and I have an entire Universe proving it.


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## LittleNipper (May 31, 2021)

Hollie said:


> LittleNipper said:
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Unfortunately, he didn't get them into heaven.  But they certainly must have been surprised when they woke up.


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## Hollie (May 31, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> BULLDOG said:
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Could you identify some of the ERRORS men like Carl Sagan and Darwin steered people into believing?

While you may believe that expanding our understanding of nature will lead us into ERROR, seeking knowledge- while it may be viewed as a threat to religious belief - is a defining attribute of humans. While Christianity as an institution sought to squash that human attribute, the waning influence of the Christian church allowed knowledge and discovery to blossom bringing  800 years of Christian oppression to end the Dark Ages.


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## Hollie (May 31, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Hollie said:
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I see you’re angry at the non-believers but Charles Darwin and the theory he proposed advanced humanity’s knowledge of the natural world. Like many hyper-religious, you denigrate Darwin because his work is a symbol of knowledge and learning. Why not hate Louis Pasteur or Dr. Jonas Salk, also? Oddly, Their work has provided a direct, measurable benefit to humanity regardless of religious belief. That must be infuriating to your gods who can’t measure up to their accomplishments.

You may believe your gods are alive managing the affairs of the universe but you and your gods are in competition with others who make similar claims about their gods.

Can you perhaps offer your proof of your gods prior to page 6?


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## Hollie (May 31, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Hollie said:
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Ah, yes. That universally sustaining benediction of the angry religionist: 
“*You’ll get yours!”…. and your little dog, too!*

Leaving aside the claims of your partisan religious dogma about some alleged, “heaven”, how do you know Marshall Applewhite never lead anyone there?

Can you add your proof as this thread rolls on to page 7?

Thanks.


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## ReinyDays (May 31, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> ViewFromAbove said:
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*Is E = mc2 a concept?  GOD reveals HIMSELF ----- In the beginning (TIME), GOD created the heavens (SPACE), and the earth (MATTER). I'm trying assist you out of your own ignorance.*

Ah ... here's your mistake ... as a hard and fast rule, we're not allowed to change the words in the Bible to suit our own ideas ... God set these words down _perfectly_ ... any change is then imperfect, flawed, and of Satan ... because once you give yourself permission, the next step is "blessed are the trolls" ... 

Our duty as Christians is to bring people _into_ the flock, not to chase them away with ridiculous philosophies ... we can't disprove the existence of God, therefore science cannot be used to describe God ... Christ set our example: feeding the hungry, housing the homeless and clothing the naked ... long past time we both logged off the internet and got busy doing God's work ...


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## LittleNipper (May 31, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> LittleNipper said:
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This is what happens when people follow a man and not GOD. The problem is that our education system sees to it that GOD is excluded but man is promoted and they get led by the nose...


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## LittleNipper (May 31, 2021)

ReinyDays said:


> LittleNipper said:
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The Bible was written in Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic.  Do you read it in those languages? If not, you are reading a translation. At best, what one gets is a paraphrase of what the Bible is expressing. And the HOLY SPIRIT works with CHRISTIANS to encourage them in their various ministries. CHRIST came to save that which was lost. And while CHRISTIANS should wish to be CHRISTLIKE ----- being CHRISTLIKE is not how one is saved. One becomes saved by excepting JESUS as their personal SAVIOR first and foremost.  Our  duty as AMERICAN CHRISTIANS is to keep AMERICA religiously open and free from GOVERNMENTAL interference as we (CHRISTIANS) prudently both live for CHRIST and witness for HIM spreading the message of the GOOD NEWS.  This is not always easy as some will be annoyed.. as they were with CHRIST. 
John 15:19–20



> _If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they keep my word, they will also keep yours._


19 εἰ ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου ἦτε ὁ κόσμος ἂν τὸ ἴδιον ἐφίλει ὅτι δὲ ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου οὐκ ἐστέ ἀλλ’ ἐγὼ ἐξελεξάμην ὑμᾶς ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου διὰ τοῦτο μισεῖ ὑμᾶς ὁ κόσμος 20 Μνημονεύετε τοῦ λόγου οὗ ἐγὼ εἶπον ὑμῖν Οὐκ ἔστιν δοῦλος μείζων τοῦ κυρίου αὐτοῦ εἰ ἐμὲ ἐδίωξαν καὶ ὑμᾶς διώξουσιν εἰ τὸν λόγον μου ἐτήρησαν καὶ τὸν ὑμέτερον τηρήσουσιν


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## ReinyDays (May 31, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> ReinyDays said:
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... and you think picking fights with the heathen is your ministry? ... as I thought, "blessed are the war-mongers" ... okay Bubba ... because of Aramaic ...

Issac Newton wrote in Latin ... F≠ma ...


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## GLASNOST (May 31, 2021)

emilynghiem said:


> As long as we agree that God represents the greatest good or collective truth ......


We don't. Who is this "god" you speak of anyway? Let us say, "As long as we agree that chipmunks are the greatest thinkers of all time."


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## GLASNOST (May 31, 2021)

Hollie said:


> Page 5.
> 
> Still no proof of the gods.


None at all. And we were promised it would be _"without a doubt"_.


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## GLASNOST (May 31, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Hollie said:
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I don't see this "alive god" you talk about. To be perfectly honest with you I never saw Darwin's corpse either. Maybe he rose from the dead on the second day of his death and is hovering as we speak trying to convince us to eat more pork and to protest the price of a ticket on Charlie's M.T.A. _"Shame and scandal!" _



LittleNipper said:


> .... Men are imperfect as are their theories ...


You mean like the ones who wrote snippets of superstitious balderdash or the one who stuck them together and claimed it was a novel rather than a collection of short stories written by snake oil salesmen?


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## GLASNOST (May 31, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Hollie said:
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> > People would die for Marshall Applewhite. He must be god.
> ...


What a slanderous thing to say! How would you know if they are in heaven or not? Did you ask this "living god" you've been talking about?


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## BULLDOG (May 31, 2021)

emilynghiem said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> > I watched the first 10 minutes. If God existed before time, why couldn't the cause of the Big Bang have existed before time?
> ...


Belief in God is not required to communicate and operate effectively. I thought you were logical enough to realize that.


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## BULLDOG (May 31, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> BULLDOG said:
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If I pass you in traffic, I hope you're keeping your eyes on the road


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## BULLDOG (May 31, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> BULLDOG said:
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So when are you going to get around to the scientific part?


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## LittleNipper (May 31, 2021)

ReinyDays said:


> LittleNipper said:
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GLASNOST said:


> LittleNipper said:
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JOHN 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


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## LittleNipper (May 31, 2021)

emilynghiem said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> > I watched the first 10 minutes. If God existed before time, why couldn't the cause of the Big Bang have existed before time?
> ...


Hebrews 3:4  "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of *God*, so that things which are seen were not *made* of things which do appear."


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## Hollie (May 31, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> ReinyDays said:
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It seems kind of desperate to be proselytizing in the S&T forum.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (May 31, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> emilynghiem said:
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Again with an appeal to authority fallacy.


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## LittleNipper (May 31, 2021)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> LittleNipper said:
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Gravity. Job 26:7. He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing. ...
Water Cycle. Job 26:8. He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight. ...
The Earth's Core. Job 28: 5. The earth, from which food comes, is transformed below as by fire.


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## Hollie (May 31, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
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  Chronicles 16:30 "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable'' A Geocentric model might be wrong. You have some handy 'quotes'?


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## GLASNOST (May 31, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> JOHN 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right. *Karl Max answered*, *"Religion is the opium of the people."*

The Case Against Religion. *Christopher Hitchens replies*, *“Organized religion is violent, irrational, intolerant, allied to racism, tribalism, and bigotry, invested in ignorance and hostile to free inquiry, contemptuous of women and coercive toward children".*

The question of religion. *Richard Dawkins answers,* *“I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world”

Lucius Annaeus Seneca answered, “Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.”

Bishop Tutu answers,* *“When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land.”

Glasnost answers,* *“Religion? Don’t be stupid!”*


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## GLASNOST (May 31, 2021)

Hollie said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> > JOHN 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
> ...


But that's what he calls *"The Scientific poof"*.


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## LittleNipper (Jun 1, 2021)

Hollie said:


> LittleNipper said:
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Out planet follows a course, it's not simply drifting in space. How would ancient man know all this?


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## Hollie (Jun 1, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Hollie said:
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The Bible verse includes the term "immovable". 

How did the gods get that so wrong?


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## LittleNipper (Jun 1, 2021)

Science now demonstrates that there must be a CREATOR:Watch Christian TV Shows, Ministry Video Broadcasts Online


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## LittleNipper (Jun 1, 2021)

The CREATOR's existence is proven by science: God’s Existence Is Proven by Science


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## Hollie (Jun 1, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Science now demonstrates that there must be a CREATOR:Watch Christian TV Shows, Ministry Video Broadcasts Online


I'm not clear why anyone not predisposed toward Christian fundamentalism would unquestioningly accept science matters from a Christian ministry. One might expect a certain, you know, bias there. 

When did Jimmy Swaggert get his degree in Astrophysics?


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## Hollie (Jun 1, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> The CREATOR's existence is proven by science: God’s Existence Is Proven by Science







__





						#119: Michael Egnor
					

Egnor is a neurosurgeon and  creationist, and one of the more recent additions to the Discovery  Institute’s rooster of loons. He is also an...




					americanloons.blogspot.com
				




#119: Michael Egnor​


Egnor is a neurosurgeon and creationist, and one of the more recent additions to the Discovery Institute’s rooster of loons. He is also an idiot. His main anti-science strategy is attacking materialistic neuroscience and an attempted revival of dualism (taken up also by e.g. O’Leary), completely oblivious to any of the literature on the subject (and to fallacies such as the fallacy of division and denying the antecedent).

One of his primary arguments against materialism, for instance, concerns altruism, and the argument is that since altruism does not have the properties of matter it cannot derive from matter (no, the fact that this is a silly, often-refuted idea has passed him by completely). More specifically, matter has certain properties like location, temperature, and divisibility while ideas and concepts do not have these properties, therefore ideas and concepts cannot derive from matter (wonder whether he would see the category mistake if he tried “democracy” or “computing 2 + 2” vs. computer programs). He also claims that if altruism derived from the brain than when someone walked around in a room, or changed one’s bodily position, it should “change” your altruism. It also follows, according to Egnor, that if you take a chunk of random brain that chunk should have a proportional amount of altruism inside it. Yes, it is that silly (in fact, it is pure choprawoo. More here.

He doesn’t like evolution (the old canards, see here and here. He doesn’t understand “information” either (nor information theory): here and here and here. The examples are really plentiful. For some horrid quote-mining (-mangling), this one is good. And, of course, Darwinism has nothing to contribute to medicine: here, here, here, here, here, and also here.

As liars for Jeebus are wont to do, he also brazenly attempts to reconstruct history.

The term “egnorance” has been proposed to be defined as “willful ignorance”. Egnor is also a prime example of the notion of “crank magnetism”.

Ok – lets just cut straight to it. Michael Egnor hates science; Darwinism, medicine, climate science, physics, you name it. And as all good kooks, he is convinced that he is being persecuted for it (distinguishing criticism and persecution is obviously tough).

Diagnosis: Blissfully ignorant, total moron and dependable fallacy generator. He is relatively prominent among the Discovery Institute Crackpots, and might actually prove to be dangerous; see more here.


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## ReinyDays (Jun 1, 2021)

When are we getting to the scientific proof? ... I want to look over the math if you don't mind ...


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## emilynghiem (Jun 1, 2021)

Hollie said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
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> > Hollie said:
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Maybe it refers to climate change or flat earth believers. Who are proof of the immovable!


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## emilynghiem (Jun 1, 2021)

Hollie said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> > Science now demonstrates that there must be a CREATOR:Watch Christian TV Shows, Ministry Video Broadcasts Online
> ...


True. Laws of science are for settling science matters. Scriptural laws are for settling church matters. 

We cannot expect to use a Saw for what Scissors are designed for, or vice versa, then complain that these tools are useless!


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## emilynghiem (Jun 1, 2021)

ReinyDays said:


> When are we getting to the scientific proof? ... I want to look over the math if you don't mind ...


Dear ReinyDays I found the most helpful application of scientific method to anything useful in Christian teaching
Is the use of medical studies to document the positive results of Christian Spiritual Healing on curing Rheumatoid Arthritis cases, as an example chosen since there is no cure for RA and the results could only be attributed to the team prayer and healing methods used in the study.

Study funded by Templeton Fdn cited in
HEALING, Francis MacNutt, 1999 or later

These studies can be replicated using different conditions as the focus.
I suggest picking a condition, such as bulimia or anorexic phobias, with greater chance of immediate changes that can be documented faster and save more lives sooner, while longterm conditions such as pedophilia might require 25 years or longer to show stages of recovery and improvement including relapse periods.


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## BULLDOG (Jun 1, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Hollie said:
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If the Earth is firm and immovable, it can't follow a course. It's immovable, right?


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## Hollie (Jun 1, 2021)

emilynghiem said:


> Hollie said:
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Or, those who wrote of an immovable earth believed the earth was exactly that. That's what they wrote.


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## Hollie (Jun 1, 2021)

emilynghiem said:


> Hollie said:
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So then, why is this thread in the S&T forum?


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## emilynghiem (Jun 1, 2021)

Hollie said:


> emilynghiem said:
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> > Hollie said:
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Dear Hollie and BULLDOG 
The fairest explanation I can find on this passage is that it doesn't mean the planet earth is fixed and immovable.
Because the people back then did not see or refer to earth as a planet.

They likely meant that the land they live on, their relationship to it, does not "shift or change in positions" like the stars do.
Like the phrase describing someone as having their "feet firmly planted on the ground."

They were using earth to mean man's relationship with God is firmly established, as in the center of man's Life.

They had no knowledge or opinion of anything else like life in the universe beyond that.

That is my best interpretation.


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## BULLDOG (Jun 1, 2021)

emilynghiem said:


> Hollie said:
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True, but a god who created everything, would know. The Bible isn't portrayed as the opinions of ancient people, as you seem to imply. It is called "THE INSPIRED WORD OF GOD"  You should  make the distinction, and define which parts are God's word, and which parts can only be considered to be the beliefs of people long ago, and then we can have a fair basis for discussion. You can't just jump back and forth between the two, depending on which one doesn't match the point you want to make.


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## ReinyDays (Jun 1, 2021)

emilynghiem said:


> ReinyDays said:
> 
> 
> > When are we getting to the scientific proof? ... I want to look over the math if you don't mind ...
> ...



I'm sure that's some interesting results ... there's a number of Oregon parents sitting in prison right now for practicing this on their children ... the children died and the parents convicted of negligent homicide ... apparently this doesn't work for acute appendicitis, meningitis or tetanus ... there's a surprising number of people who seek medical treatment for conditions that will actually go away on their own ... Fifth is a good example, no point in wasting a doctor's time, there's nothing they can do, it will go away on it's own ... 

Your citation was published by Ava Maria Publishing, owned and operated by the Roman Catholic Church on the campus of Notre Dame University, Indiana ... not generally considered a reputable refereed scientific journal ... the Catholic Church is usually considered an obstacle to scientific progress ... ask for funding for research on stem cells from aborted fetuses and see what they say ... of course for Spiritual affliction, like bulimia, anorexic and pedophilia, we should look to Spiritual healing ... but if I break my arm, I'm going to need a medical doctor, not a Catholic priest ... 

I'm sorry ... science is ill-equipped to define the God-factor in lab experiments ... I give you dust, now make a human ... I give you a young teenage virgin girl, now have her bear a male child without knowing a man ... what mathematical formula delineates good and evil numerically? ... 

Ants have religion? ...


Hour long documentry ... the TL;DW version is that a series of wood ant colonies have been shown to work co-operatively, whereas all other wood ant colonies fight each other to the death ... "blessed are the peacemakers" seems to not be exclusively human ...


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## Hollie (Jun 1, 2021)

emilynghiem said:


> Hollie said:
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I think what you're doing is offering special pleading in an attempt to do what the gods didn't do: require final editing rights.

Bible believers tend to follow a line of thought that applies equally to believers of competing godly texts;

"My gods are true and inerrant"

_and how do we know this?_

"This is what I was told the bible says"

_and how do we know the bible is true?_

"Because I believe it is true."

_and why do you believe the bible is true?_

"Because I was told the bible is true"


Consider. If you interpret Genesis as simply a parable describing a misbehaving child not following the rules of the parent, it completely dismantles Christianity. There's no original sin thus no need for a savior. Jesus becomes irrelevant and Christianity becomes meaningless.


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## emilynghiem (Jun 1, 2021)

ReinyDays said:


> emilynghiem said:
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Dear ReinyDays 
1. First do NOT confuse the false faith healing that is clearly fraudulent and dangerous, if not criminal, with natural spiritual healing that works freely and voluntarily with no negative side effects, risks or dangers. These are completely opposite procedures.
2. The book on HEALING is different from the medical research study conducted, peer reviewed, and published by professional medical standards of study and publication. The book I cited describes and cites the medical study conducted and published independently by professional medical guidelines like any other medical study is required. Templeton Foundation carefully screens the studies they underwrite so their grants are not wasted on poorly designed experiments.

I apologize points  1 and 2 were not clear.

Your objections would be correct otherwise.


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## emilynghiem (Jun 1, 2021)

Hollie said:


> emilynghiem said:
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^ SOME people may argue in circles.

But this should not be used as a strawman to negate all other people who do NOT make or rely on circular arguments.

As many Flat Earthers abuse science to argue their beliefs.

That doesn't mean science is all false just because some people can't use it properly.

In fact, the best way to correct such abuses IS to use science properly for self correction.

Likewise the best way I've found to stop misguided arguments going in circles abusing the Bible, is to use it consistently to correct that.

Hollie


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## emilynghiem (Jun 1, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> emilynghiem said:
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Dear BULLDOG because each person's process of discerning the two is unique to them, unfortunately the process IS going to jump around and not be clear or linear.

In the end, we will come to agreements point by point, on key principles we agree on and find to be universal. 

But this process is as unique as you are. As I am. And as the unique relationship that joins you and me.

So that is why it is going to look so scattered. We do not learn by collectively imposing "one way" on everyone. We learn by individual experience.

Where the order comes in, once you and I agree how to communicate and make sense to each other, then we can expand on this connection and work more effectively in other ways and relationships. We can build from there.

When everyone does that, we can all build more cooperative constructive relationships. And collectively we influence whole institutions and society to work more inclusively and cooperatively, respecting individuals.

The changes occur here and there.

Because people are so diverse, yes, it will look scattered.


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## ReinyDays (Jun 1, 2021)

emilynghiem said:


> ReinyDays said:
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Wait ... WHAT ?!? ... for these to be scientific trials, we have to have our RA volunteers stop their medical treatment ... otherwise how would we know if the Spirit Healing caused the positive outcome or if it was the regular on-going medical treatments ... there might not be a cure, but there's certainly relief in a bottle of Advil ... worse, we can only provide Spirit Healing to half our volunteers, the other half go without treatment as a control group ... if you have Father McNutt's book, I'd like to know how the double-blind principles were established ... how do we get the clinician to provide bogus therapy without the clinician knowing it's bogus? ... just volunteering for this study may provide all the healing effects, Spirit arises from within, also called the Placebo Effect ...

It doesn't matter how many scientific papers Father McNutt cites in his book ... his book itself is profoundly non-scientific and is just his own personal opinion ... strictly philosophy ... but please check if any of his citations are available over the web, I'd be happy to read them over ... medical doctors are trying to kill us, hospitals are Cathedrals of Death ... when we run out of money, it's off to the morgue for us ...


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## BULLDOG (Jun 1, 2021)

emilynghiem said:


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> ...


I mostly agree with you, but that doesn't change the fact that the bible is either the inerrant word of God, or it isn't. If you believe it isn't, then large chunks of Christian dogma become  total crap. If you believe it is, then rational discussion is not possible.


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## LittleNipper (Jun 1, 2021)

Hollie said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


My GOD is different from other gods. Read The Bible and read the literature concerning those other gods. As you say, it's like comparing a pair of scissors to some saw. I have a relationship, and not simply a series of tales.  The story of Adam and Eve is very sad. Here we have a couple made for each other by the loving hand of GOD -- Eve is even a part of Adam. And GOD warns Adam that if they eat of the tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil things will change and not for the better. 
At first Adam apparently is so concerned that it appears that he told Eve not to even so much as touch the fruit. But, Satan applied his lies and tempted both Eve and Adam by saying GOD was withholding knowledge from them, and power, and they could be like GOD. This is what Satan himself desired ------ to usurp GOD and take HIS place. 

So, Eve takes and eats the fruit, and Adam must have been listening all along because He is right there to eat also. And so what happens, The prince ---- Adam, throws his beloved under the bus and even throws the blame at GOD. The woman YOU made for me did eat and gave it to me, and Eve blames the serpent. Adam doesn't say, "It's all my fault! Please punish me but don't harm Eve! Forgive me GOD... But Adam had changed. The Spirit of GOD within him had died, and he is alone.


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## LittleNipper (Jun 1, 2021)

Hollie said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


Again, when has the earth moved out from under your feet. And when has the earth speed up in its spinning or jumped out of orbit. Can I depend on the seasons or not? Can I count on morning, noon, and night? Does the moon go through its phases or are they undependable? I'm not going to argue with you. The truth is obvious enough for most people.


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## BULLDOG (Jun 1, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > emilynghiem said:
> ...


If he Earth was firm and unmovable, none of those things would be possible.


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## GLASNOST (Jun 1, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Out planet follows a course, it's not simply drifting in space. How would ancient man know all this?


Ancient man knew nothing. That is why he believed in hokus-pokus and created superstitious rumble-mumba called *"religion"*. Today we have science instead to either prove or disprove religious balderdash through something ancient man did not have: *KNOWLEDGE.*


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## GLASNOST (Jun 1, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> My GOD is different from other gods.


I see. So you don't believe in Monotheism.


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## GLASNOST (Jun 1, 2021)

ReinyDays said:


> When are we getting to the scientific proof? ... I want to look over the math if you don't mind ...


Join the group. We are all waiting.


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## GLASNOST (Jun 1, 2021)

Hollie said:


> When did Jimmy Swaggert get his degree in Astrophysics?


All you need is faith, ra-ta-da-ta-da!


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## emilynghiem (Jun 2, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> > BULLDOG said:
> ...


Dear BULLDOG

1. Inspired by God means intended or designed to be written, edited and preserved as is.
This does not require it to be inerrant.
If people create their own conditions around inerrancy, that is part of their
spiritual process. It is still meant for them to process information that way.
So it is still part of the divine inspiration and design.

Two ways this could be described:

2. One way  I heard it described is like  a scale.
We do not need scales to be perfect to the .00001 decimal place
if all we are measuring is good enough for pounds and ounces.
So whatever interpretation is "good enough" to convey the relevant message
is what the Bible is used for. If there are conflicts, the point is for THOSE PEOPLE
in conflict to resolve their issues. Like I said, the process is UNIQUE to THOSE PEOPLE.

3. The way I see it is more like this:
Did you see the movie The Matrix where the visionary oracle tells
the main character "what he needs to hear for certain things to take place."
If he misinterprets the message, it is meant to be, so that he goes through 
a process to fulfill the journey and purpose he is designed for.

So even the ambiguities and errors are part of the spiritual process
and divinely designed for a purpose.

In general for the Bible to be divinely inspired and universal
does not mean everyone has to see it and use it the same way.

The GENERAL spiritual process and message is universal,
that humanity moves from living by the letter of the law and retributive justice,
which gets corrupted by greed and leads to endless death war and destruction,
to living by the spirit of truth and restorative justice, which brings healing and lasting peace.

But the PROCESS itself of reconciling and growing through stages
can involve any number of approaches and lessons. So anyone
can get things out of the bad, true or false, good or bad, as part of their process.

That is still divinely inspired, and is still that person's valid process of
working out their own understanding about truth and life
and relations with others in society etc.


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## emilynghiem (Jun 2, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> ReinyDays said:
> 
> 
> > When are we getting to the scientific proof? ... I want to look over the math if you don't mind ...
> ...


Dear GLASNOST and ReinyDays
Proof that the spiritual process is universal
is relative to different people. Healing is universal, and can apply
to any number of conditions. But what matters and changes
someone's mind depends on what they relate to which is relative.

I find that one of the more helpful ways to demonstrate
how the universal spiritual process works is to understand
how prayers for forgiveness of past conditions can
transform and heal people as well as relationships.

If you both want to see a demonstration of how spiritual healing works,
let's pick something where we can show the difference it makes
if people agree to receive forgiveness and healing.

it can be people from conflicting groups that want to agree on a common solution.

It can be a medical study, such as finding subjects willing to undergo spiritual
healing to record the impact on their health conditions in a measurable quantifiable way.

The study I referenced was on Rheumatoid Arthritis.

A  relatively simple condition that could be used for a replicated study
are addictive or phobic "eating disorders" where the person's mental
or spiritual state is stuck in either guilt or fear about eating or gaining weight.
So changing that state of mind is something that could be quantified,
if we can find patients and doctors willing to set up a formal medical study on that.

I also received msgs from a new contact online who has a young family member
suffering from severely dangerous homicidal and violent obsessions
and is currently institutionalized for safety reasons while undergoing treatment.

This is something that could possibly be treated, cured or made manageable
by spiritual healing therapy, although the person may still need to stay detained.
At least the "before and after" observations could be medically documents
to show any changes or improvement to the patient's ability to control
and avoid the chronic rage and violent impulses.

Pick some issue or some condition where you would like to see
the impact of healing.

And I can contact the sources I know of with reputable effective history of healing,
and see what it takes to replicate the team prayer studies that were done on RA.


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## BULLDOG (Jun 2, 2021)

emilynghiem said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> > emilynghiem said:
> ...


The Bible being the INERRANT WORD OF GOD is a major tenet of Christianity. What the Bible says is real and literal. If you don't believe me, then ask any religious nut. Whatever you are describing is not Christianity.


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## emilynghiem (Jun 2, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


Again BULLDOG you are talking about the literal planet Earth.

When the people back then referred to earth and  life on earth,
they more likely meant life as they knew it.

This reminds me of people arguing over the literal meaning of
the "days of creation." It makes more sense that "day" means "age."
It becomes absurd to use "day" to mean "earth days" if the
sun and earth were in process of being created. How in the heck
can that be measured in "earth days" if the relationship between
the sun and earth was itself being created?

Same here. If the people back then DID NOT THINK in terms of
the earth being a planet, then they would not refer to earth that way.

It seems more likely they saw man living on earth
and thought of God up in the heavens. And were referring
to that relationship staying fixed for all human history.

If you want to keep picking that apart, that is your own way of
thinking and processing. And it has nothing to do with what
people meant back then anyway. 

I suggest that you just do what Jefferson did, and stick to the
natural laws of civility, peace and justice that he saw Jesus as
a teacher and example of, and ignore the mythical and mythological references.

If you are more Secular Gentile, the natural laws and science
are for you, not the other language that is for the churched believers
who talk to God that way.

To each his or her own!

Find what works for you, and stick with that.


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## emilynghiem (Jun 2, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> > BULLDOG said:
> ...


No, the Bible being the Word of God does
not mean man's interpretation is inerrant
but means the purpose of how it is written is designed that way.
Whether we make errors of it, or not.

It does not have to be perfectly understood or perfectly clear and interpreted 100% correct
in order to be used as God intends,
to get us through the spiritual process
to reach the goal of establishing truth justice and peace.

It can be full of things that don't make sense, or create conflicts
and controversy, and still get us to the goal in keeping with God's intended purpose.


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## emilynghiem (Jun 2, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> > BULLDOG said:
> ...


PS the main "tenet in Christianity" is forgiveness
as the greatest act of love or charity.

So forgiveness does not require our understanding
or interpretation of the Bible to be perfect.

We can learn to receive forgiveness, grace and healing
with or without the Bible, with or without contradictions
and huge errors or conflicting interpretations etc.

And the message in the Bible about divine forgiveness
bringing healing and salvation to our relations and to
humanity is STILL TRUE AND UNIVERSAL.

So it does not depend on the literal Bible, which
is mainly a TOOL for teaching the process of
forgiveness and correction to those who follow it.

For those who follow other cultural laws or systems,
the path to reconciling in truth would use those relative systems
that people normally use to communicate and resolve issues
among themselves.

If people use science, then science is used to correct and develop understanding over time.

If people use Buddhism, or use the Bill of Rights and Constitution to correct themselves
and each other, then those laws are used as tools relative to the audience or community.

None of these have to be perfect.

They just have to be good enough to COMMUNICATE
the truth that THOSE PEOPLE are trying to convey and establish.

Concepts don't always translate perfectly between English, Spanish, French etc.
So people use the closest equivalent culturally when it comes to idioms,
and try to capture the SPIRIT of the expression. 

It isn't going to be perfect, because people's perceptions
and frame of reference are different and unique to them and their culture.


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## BULLDOG (Jun 2, 2021)

emilynghiem said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> > emilynghiem said:
> ...


Again, What you describe is not Christianity. Yes, there is a lot of wisdom in that book, and some of the moral lessons are very worthwhile. Much of it is not. None of it is proof that a God exists.


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## BULLDOG (Jun 2, 2021)

emilynghiem said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> > emilynghiem said:
> ...


None of the things you list ever claimed to be perfect, or the only way. The bible and it's adherents claim both.


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## emilynghiem (Jun 2, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> > BULLDOG said:
> ...


Dear BULLDOG
If other people claim that, that is their business.
Clearly that is not a universal tenet of Christianity
because I don't require that and I know other people who don't either.

The person who explained using the Bible like a scale
so it didn't have to be used perfectly is also Christian.

If you do not believe in Christianity and the Bible that is not your battle.
That is for Christians who want to argue that, that is THEIR process.

I would not recommend that nonbelievers try to resolve issues
between Christians.

The way I've seen Christians resolve differences is when
they respect and believe each other to be fellow believers,
they will NOT accept any such corrections from a nonbeliever.

That is like asking someone who does not speak French
to resolve an argument over interpreting a French poem
between two native French speakers. It will likely take 
another French speaker to resolve conflicts between
fellow French speakers.

If the Bible does not speak to you, there is NO SENSE in 
you using it or arguing over it.

I don't get into arguments over physics, big bang,
singularities and how what created which thing when etc.

That is NOT my language, so I let people argue over
that who get something out of that conversation.

I don't. So I use Constitutional language to resolve
issues with fellow Democrats, Republicans and other
political advocates.

I use the Bible when it helps communicate with
fellow Christians. But if it doesn't work or help,
I will go use something else. Usually personal experiences
to share a common understanding or solve problems.

Whatever you are citing sounds like
"other people's issues"

That is THEIR spiritual process.

 If you don't even believe it is real or relevant,
I wouldn't waste any time energy or thought on it.

There are other ways to get to the same understanding.

I would stick to the ones that have value and meaning
to YOU. This sounds like someone else's process, not yours!


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## BULLDOG (Jun 2, 2021)

emilynghiem said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> > emilynghiem said:
> ...


You might note this thread is supposed to be about scientific proof that God exists.


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## emilynghiem (Jun 2, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> > BULLDOG said:
> ...


Yes, and that is why I offered a better approach:
of replicating medical studies on the effects of spiritual
healing, which demonstrates the process taught in
Christianity about forgiveness enabling correction.

This universal process of forgiveness correlating
with better rates of recovery, healing and reconciliation
and restoration of healthy mind body and relationships
can be captured and replicated by scientifically quantifiable
research studies, using medical conditions or sociological problems
as the target to measure conditions before and after the process.

At the same time, the degrees of unforgiveness correlating
with failure to heal, reconcile or restore mind, body and relationships
can also be quantified and compared.

Trying to use the Bible to "prove" God is like
trying to use variables like X Y and Z to prove
1 2 and 3 exist. No, X Y and Z are variables that
are used to express relationships between existing values.
The variables or language used do not "prove
those values exist," but people assume those values exist where
the variables are used to communicate ideas about the
relations and nature of the concepts being discussed.

I find it more helpful to AGREE what values people
believe in common, first, then second agree what
Variable or terms to use to express those values.

So if people believe in Truth, Justice and Peace as UNIVERSAL VALUES
then we might agree that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit
are VARIABLES/Collective Symbols for those three principles
that guide or govern humanity universally.

If people do NOT agree to  use terms God/Jesus/Holy Spirit
then we can agree to use SECULAR terms of Truth/Justice/Peace
and still have the same conversations about how
to ACHIEVE "truth justice and peace" using
SECULAR TERMS and not mess with religious symbolism for that.

How does substituting equivalent terms relate to scientific proof?

We can conduct sociological studies by documents statistics
to show correlations as follows:
* ability of nontheists and theists to reconcile their language differences
and AGREE that God/Jesus/Holy Spirit are interchangeable with
Truth/Justice/Peace
CORRELATES with the ability of those people
to forgive and include each other equally despite these differences in beliefs
* inability of nontheists and theists to reconcile
CORRELATES with unforgiveness and rejection/exclusion
of each other because of these differences in beliefs

Thus we could prove it isn't a matter of someone's beliefs, whether theist or nontheist,
but a matter of forgiveness or unforgiveness
if they can AGREE what is meant by God
or if they continue to disagree and do not recognize
the equivalent meanings of God using secular terms.


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## Moonglow (Jun 2, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, gawd. Yet another in the endless "proof of the gawds" threads that always fail to provide proof.
> ...


Good, now explain how God was created.


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## emilynghiem (Jun 2, 2021)

Moonglow said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


This is like explaining where does LIFE come from.
Believing in God's will is like believing in Good Will for all Humanity.
Where does that Good Will come from.

Believing in Jesus is like believing in Justice.
If nobody has seen this perfect Justice
why do we  keep demanding it and asking for it
as if this standard really exists?

We have inherent desire or faith in a higher Justice
and Greater Good than what we see now.

So that is like having faith in Justice or God we have never seen.


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## Colin norris (Jun 2, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, gawd. Yet another in the endless "proof of the gawds" threads that always fail to provide proof.
> ...



There is no God and never has been.  I challenge anyone on earth to provide any respectable evidence including you. I know you can't but If you can babble on with your religious rubbish forever.  It means absolutely nothing without proof.

It's delusional people like you who chose to ignore  select data. What you believe is rubbish.  Data comes from science not filthy   religion.


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## GLASNOST (Jun 2, 2021)

emilynghiem said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > ReinyDays said:
> ...


I don't care what people believe or why they do as long as they _get out da' way_ when they see me coming. And if they are shoving their crap down someone else throat they would be smart to wait until I am out of earshot.


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## GLASNOST (Jun 2, 2021)

Moonglow said:


> Good, now explain how God was created.


_Show me your god and I'll tell you. This one was made by Geppetto:



_


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## GLASNOST (Jun 2, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> There is no God and never has been.  I challenge anyone on earth to provide any respectable evidence  ......  Data comes from science not filthy   religion.


The facts (so far) are in your favour.


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## Colin norris (Jun 2, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> Colin norris said:
> 
> 
> > There is no God and never has been.  I challenge anyone on earth to provide any respectable evidence  ......  Data comes from science not filthy   religion.
> ...



I'll be so bold to predict that ehileever human beings inhabit this planet and ads holes point to the ground, my prediction will remain in fact.


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## Hollie (Jun 2, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > emilynghiem said:
> ...


I see nothing that separates your gods from any other gods.


We see in religions the morphing of characteristics that define the gods people invent. You need only read the OT (Hebrew scriptures stolen by christianity), and the NT to understand the morphing of the gods. Zeus was descended from earlier ancient entities, the Titans. Zeus was the son of Kronos and Rhea. Kronos was himself the child of Ouranos and Gaia. The inventors of religions tend to steal ruthlessly from earlier belief systems and earlier inventions of supernatural characters. That's evident in his formulation of christianity and not at all uncommon with other religions.

There actually are recognizable patterns where various religions tend to define their gods as simply grander and more powerful versions of their own political or social constructs you Zeus worshipping heathen, you


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## GLASNOST (Jun 2, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > Colin norris said:
> ...


Let's put it this day ....... THERE IS NO GOD as the OP describes it. Any creator could not possibly want humans to be as superstitious as he is.


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## GLASNOST (Jun 2, 2021)

Hollie said:


> We see in religions the morphing of characteristics that define the gods people invent. .....


That is the A to Z of it.


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## Hollie (Jun 2, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > emilynghiem said:
> ...


If, like many fundamentalists, you’re going to press the narrative that the Bible is the defining, absolute and authentic word of the gods, one must understand the gods didn’t supernaturally create a heliocentric solar system.

Can you depend on tornadoes and hurricanes killing people? Yes you can. Thank the gods for that. They invented convection currents and the rotation of the planet. Together, those elements cause “twisters”, and hurricanes that kill people every year. How about earthquakes and tsunami waves? The gods invented tectonic plates that occasionally slide, cause faults which topple buildings and cause massive waves that kill little Johnny and Janes. I guess that global flood thing didn’t really satiate those evil and vindictive gods. 

Hooray for godly designs.


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## LittleNipper (Jun 2, 2021)

Hollie said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


What gods are you talking about? There is ONE GOD and HE is TRIUNE. As for twisters etc., etc., etc.... Satan is still the prince of earth. And while his days a numbered, he presently is permitted to do things.  Satan is the ACCUSER and INSTIGATOR. He is able to do many things because man turns his back on GOD. Fortunately, believers are still an influence and as such help to bring about GOD's intervention and protection. There are at least 10 righteous people in Sodom at the present...


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## LittleNipper (Jun 2, 2021)

Hollie said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


My GOD created everything and always existed, unlike Zeus. My GOD is nothing like your poster child.


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## Hollie (Jun 2, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > LittleNipper said:
> ...


It appears that your gods are too weak and ineffective to counter a "satan" character. Do you spend your life in trembling fear of princely Satan's? Why?


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## Hollie (Jun 2, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > LittleNipper said:
> ...


Your gods are subordinate to my gods.


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## BULLDOG (Jun 2, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > LittleNipper said:
> ...


So Satan is powerful enough to literally change God's design, and God can't fix it back?


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## BULLDOG (Jun 2, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > LittleNipper said:
> ...


Sounds amazing, but we still need to see that scientific proof you promised.


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## ReinyDays (Jun 2, 2021)

... still waiting for that citation Emily ...


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> The Physicist Hugh Ross simply explains how the Universe proves that GOD must exist.


How about you present the main argument in your own words. Then link to the data that is being used as evidence. Thanks.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2021)

Let's review:

Crazy guy ranting on YouTube = scientific evidence

Mountains of mutually supportive scientific evidence for evolution = not scientific evidence

LittleNipper = *cuckoo*


----------



## Hollie (Jun 2, 2021)

Winding down page 9 in a yet another thread following an endless parade of threads claiming ‘pwoofs’ of the gods and…… no pwoof.


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## BULLDOG (Jun 2, 2021)

Hollie said:


> Winding down page 9 in a yet another thread following an endless parade of threads claiming ‘pwoofs’ of the gods and…… no pwoof.


You know the quickest way to end this thread, don't you?


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## Astrostar (Jun 2, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> The Physicist Hugh Ross simply explains how the Universe proves that GOD must exist.


Got to give the god crowd credit; they are dedicated to their cause.  But, just like the Trump Cult's "stolen election," they have no proof whatsoever.  So, they keep trying to manufacture some.  Good luck with that!  Bigly!!!


----------



## LittleNipper (Jun 2, 2021)

Hollie said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


No, I do not fear Satan. I am concerned for your eternity. Satan can control, manipulate, and confuse the unsaved against their will. Such is impossible for the saved. Though still imperfect in this life, the saved are under GOD's protection and guidance. The saved are seen by GOD through the blood of the MESSIAH.


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## LittleNipper (Jun 2, 2021)

Astrostar said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> > The Physicist Hugh Ross simply explains how the Universe proves that GOD must exist.
> ...


What proof would satisfy you? Would you accept a sermon from Saint Peter or Saint Paul?  Would you accept Jesus HIMSELF. The Pharisees and Sadducees did not.  And they had the very miracles of heaven to witness. It will be worse for them than for you; however, it will be far worse for you than an unreached native who never heard.


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## GLASNOST (Jun 2, 2021)

Hollie said:


> Winding down page 9 in a yet another thread following an endless parade of threads claiming ‘pwoofs’ of the gods and…… no pwoof.


The OP claim went "pwoof" before the ink was dry.


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## GLASNOST (Jun 2, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> What proof would satisfy you? ....  Would you accept Jesus HIMSELF. .....


Yes. Is that an offer? Bring him down. Let's take a good look at him. I want to see the cut of his jib and ask him if he can recommend a good barber. Glory in the highest! You are on the threshold of fulfilling your mission in this life! You are finally going to convert someone. Wow! Meet me outside of Marcello's Pizza this Saturday, weather permitting. Tell him to bring his wallet but to leave the locusts at home.


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## Damaged Eagle (Jun 3, 2021)

How can God not exist?

*****HAPPY SMILE*****


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 3, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> How can God not exist?
> 
> *****HAPPY SMILE*****


We don't need god. We have Bobby Brown.


----------



## LittleNipper (Jun 3, 2021)

There is a difference between CHRISTIANS and non-believers. Something changes and it's not the I-Q.


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## Hollie (Jun 3, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > LittleNipper said:
> ...


I don't accept you are concerned with anything but proselytizing.


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## Hollie (Jun 3, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Winding down page 9 in a yet another thread following an endless parade of threads claiming ‘pwoofs’ of the gods and…… no pwoof.
> ...


Sure.  But I think it's worth pointing out the lack of ethics and honesty in those who open these silly "pwoof of the gods", threads fully aware that the thread is a fraud.


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## JoeBlow (Jun 3, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> The Physicist Hugh Ross simply explains how the Universe proves that GOD must exist.


He seems to be trying to prove god through the bible and torah. That doesn't work. Just because he's a physicist doesn't make it a scientific explanation.


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## GLASNOST (Jun 3, 2021)

The philosopher and prophet Christopher _Hitchens_ explains how the Universe proves the bible is fiction.


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## BULLDOG (Jun 3, 2021)

Hollie said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


Of course, but after a couple  hundred posts, that is clear. I just made a comment. You do you.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 3, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> How can God not exist?


By not existing, same as unicorns, fairies, Apollo, dragons....


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## james bond (Jun 3, 2021)

BULLDOG said:


> why couldn't the cause of the Big Bang have existed before time?


From Kalam's Cosmological Argument, God is considered to be a beginningless, uncaused, *timeless,* *spaceless,* changeless, *immaterial*, enormously powerful, Personal Creator of the universe.


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## james bond (Jun 3, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > How can God not exist?
> ...


LMAO.  You are one who believes in the fairy tale of evolution.  It is because you have no evidence just hypothesis.  Your atheists and atheist scientists do not have have any cosmological argument.  What kind of fool are you believing in lies?


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 3, 2021)

james bond said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Damaged Eagle said:
> ...


Need some attention, buddy? Religion section starting to thin out?


----------



## Damaged Eagle (Jun 3, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > How can God not exist?
> ...







I see you choose a life of non-existence because you refuse to acknowledge God

*****SMILE*****


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 3, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> I see you choose a life of non-existence because you refuse to acknowledge God


I choose an existence of nonexistence, do i? Makes sense, if you don't think about it.


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 3, 2021)

james bond said:


> LMAO.  You are one who believes in the fairy tale of evolution.  It is because you have no evidence just hypothesis.  Your atheists and atheist scientists do not have have any cosmological argument.  What kind of fool are you believing in lies?


The study of evolution doesn't prove there is no god (not yet anyway) but it most certainly does prove the Bible is superstitious nonsense and, therefore, so is the story of Jesus & Mohammad.  By the way, there is plenty of evidence in favour of evolution. Evolution has been proven and creation has been disproved. Take your wacks like a man and deal with it.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 4, 2021)

james bond said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> > why couldn't the cause of the Big Bang have existed before time?
> ...


Merely an unsubstantiated opinion.


----------



## james bond (Jun 5, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


The believers provided the evidence already and science backed them up.  How else could science have led to Kalam's Cosmological Argument?  I asked for the atheist's logical argument and there was none.  It means you are lying by believing in lies .


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 5, 2021)

james bond said:


> The believers provided the evidence already and science backed them up.


Childish, incoherent lies meant only to soothe yourself.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 5, 2021)

james bond said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


Science never led to the silly Kalam argument. It's not even an argument. Just a lot of poorly cobbled together philosophical slogans.


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 5, 2021)

Hollie said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > The believers provided the evidence already and science backed them up.  How else could science have led to Kalam's Cosmological Argument?  I asked for the atheist's logical argument and there was none.  It means you are lying by believing in lies .
> ...


Funny that science has thoroughly and decisively disproved the bible and yet bible bashers now are trying to claim that the bible proves science.


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 5, 2021)

Ps. How can I remove the space-taking video in my signature but still keep the link to it there?


----------



## ViewFromAbove (Jun 5, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> ViewFromAbove said:
> 
> 
> > LittleNipper said:
> ...


E = m(c x c) is a RELATIONSHIP between Energy & Mass (matter) that includes Velocity (space-time). 
God "reveals himself" or herself is cultural make believe that has no relevance to reality other than fictional story telling among those who are too arrogant to admit their ignorance. That was acceptable 2,000 years ago when few were able to read and believed authorities that pretended to know origins, but now? 
No excuse if you have an open mind and understand objective philosophical concepts & objective scientific methods for discovery.


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 5, 2021)

ViewFromAbove said:


> E = m(c x c) is a RELATIONSHIP between Energy & Mass (matter) that includes Velocity (space-time).
> God "reveals himself" or herself is cultural make believe that has no relevance to reality other than fictional story telling among those who are too arrogant to admit their ignorance. That was acceptable 2,000 years ago when few were able to read and believed authorities that pretended to know origins, but now?
> *No excuse if you have an open mind* and understand objective philosophical concepts & objective scientific methods for discovery.


----------



## james bond (Jun 6, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > The believers provided the evidence already and science backed them up.
> ...


No, that's for ALL the atheists and their atheist scientists.  They'll get their _rewards_ later.  I wouldn't call it soothing.

It's truly amazing that we have many foolish people like you here.  They believe things which are just scientific babble, i.e. evolution, with absolutely no evidence.  I don't know anything soothing in this except maybe they put something over on God -- https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/home.php.

The only good thing I see is that it helps to get one's sheepskin from college.  Just forget about it after taking your final exam.


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 6, 2021)

james bond said:


> No, that's for ALL the atheists and their atheist scientists.  They'll get their _rewards_ later.  I wouldn't call it soothing.
> 
> It's truly amazing that we have many foolish people like you here.  They believe things which are just scientific babble, i.e. evolution, with absolutely no evidence.  I don't know anything soothing in this except maybe they put something over on God -- https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/home.php.
> 
> The only good thing I see is that it helps to get one's sheepskin from college.  Just forget about it after taking your final exam.


The burden of proof is on you.

1).  You say god exists but you have no proof. 
2). Science has proved the bible is hogwash.  

Without the bible your trinity is nothing .... and that is according to your own indoctrination. 

THE SIMPLE ANALYSIS IS CLEAR: 
False bible (proven by scientific) = no Christian god (proven by you)


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 6, 2021)

Western religions are bull crappy and they get crappier as they go along. What is this fixation they all have with hats?

Judaism believes in some superstitious shit whereby you are outside of god’s favour* if you don’t cover your head* while inside the synagogue.

Christianity added its own superstition whereby you are outside of god’s favour *if you do cover your head* inside the church and also saying you cannot believe in god unless you believe in Jesus.

Islam joined the list of superstitious bull crappy whereby you are outside of god’s favour* if you don’t cover your head* inside the mosque and saying that you cannot believe in god unless you believe in Mohammad.

PRAYER.
*Jews*: _“Dear god …. “_

*Christians:* _“Dear Jesus can you please tell god ….. “_

*Muslims:* _“Dear Mohammad, can you please tell god ….. “_

Let us give Judaism a round of applause. After all, they are the original that all others try to copy and because they can pray directly to god without some shyster skimming off the top of people’s fear and superstition. But then Jews have always had the advantage of dealing in retail.


----------



## james bond (Jun 6, 2021)

Mr Joe said:


> He seems to be trying to prove god through the bible and torah. That doesn't work. Just because he's a physicist doesn't make it a scientific explanation.


Nah.  He's a compromiser, i.e. wrong, who gave up on the global flood and catastrophism.


----------



## james bond (Jun 6, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > No, that's for ALL the atheists and their atheist scientists.  They'll get their _rewards_ later.  I wouldn't call it soothing.
> ...



The ultimate proof is pain and suffering for you forever.  We know life is supernatural.

The proof is in the Bible.  How else is it the best selling book year-after-year hm.. me foolish bucko?


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 6, 2021)

james bond said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


When does this _"pain and suffering *forever*"_ begin? There must be something wrong with your clock. I've been dwelling in this life for 74 years already and the less religious superstition I believe in the better life gets. 

Oh, and you failed to notice that the bible is childish fiction and has been utterly disproven. Is it the best-selling book? There you go talking about "pain and suffering" again. While I still have your attention I'd like for you to look up the terms "sell" and "read". There are lots and lots of the latest weight-loss machines on the market and many people buy them. How many people use them do you think? Of course, most people borrow them when they go to church ... I mean training centres ... but they don't own one themselves.


----------



## james bond (Jun 6, 2021)

Hollie said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...



And your evolution side still has nothing.  KCA is the winning argument.  Only the foolish fools fools do not understand.


----------



## james bond (Jun 6, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> When does this _"pain and suffering *forever*"_ begin? There must be something wrong with your clock. I've been dwelling in this life for 74 years already and the less religious superstition I believe in the better life gets.



You'll just have to wait.  It isn't my clock.  My clock is like everyone else's.  Time waits for no person.  

It doesn't begin until one rises again from the dead.  We'll all rise again from the dead in time with the second coming of our Savior.  My best guess is 2060.  The prophecies are beginning to be fulfilled.  My best guess is 2060.  

As for your_ religious superstition_ comment, I have the Bible and KCA.  You still have nothing, but false beliefs.


----------



## james bond (Jun 6, 2021)

ViewFromAbove said:


> E = m(c x c) is a RELATIONSHIP between Energy & Mass (matter) that includes Velocity (space-time).
> God "reveals himself" or herself is cultural make believe that has no relevance to reality other than fictional story telling among those who are too arrogant to admit their ignorance. That was acceptable 2,000 years ago when few were able to read and believed authorities that pretended to know origins, but now?
> No excuse if you have an open mind and understand objective philosophical concepts & objective scientific methods for discovery.



It reflects God as our one constant.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 6, 2021)

james bond said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


Such juvenile tirades do nothing to support an ancient islamic philosophical argument.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 6, 2021)

james bond said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > When does this _"pain and suffering *forever*"_ begin? There must be something wrong with your clock. I've been dwelling in this life for 74 years already and the less religious superstition I believe in the better life gets.
> ...


You too can join the long list of charlatans who preyed upon the fears and superstitions of the religious.


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 6, 2021)

james bond said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > When does this _"pain and suffering *forever*"_ begin? There must be something wrong with your clock. I've been dwelling in this life for 74 years already and the less religious superstition I believe in the better life gets.
> ...


B-b-b-b-u-t you said my pain and suffering is *forever*. How can it be *forever* if I've never had pain and suffering? You contradict yourself. 

So now you say that everyone dies and rises again? ! LOL! Do you think some apostle morons will write about my resurrection in the next edition of the bible? I should start planning now what I will do to make a good impression. I think I'll do some walking on water and I'm definitely going to change a whole lot of water into wine. But not that cheap plonk. I mean some good stuff! 

You are definitely wrong about me having nothing against your bible. I have FACTS on my side. All you have is .......


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 6, 2021)

james bond said:


> It reflects God as our one constant.


Yep, like "spontaneous generation", and "hot water freezes faster" and there are "a gazillion WMDs in the Iraki desert".


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 6, 2021)

james bond said:


> And your evolution side still has nothing.  KCA is the winning argument.  Only the foolish fools fools do not understand.


Here you go, James!


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 6, 2021)

james bond said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


Cry it all out, then go try to sell your snake oilt to small children and hungry people.


----------



## LittleNipper (Jun 6, 2021)

ViewFromAbove said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> > ViewFromAbove said:
> ...


An open mind isn't bias but inquisitive.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 6, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> ViewFromAbove said:
> 
> 
> > LittleNipper said:
> ...


An open mind is a willingness to consider new information and evidence. I.E., the opposite of a religious person.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair (Jun 6, 2021)

Isn't all of the cosmos proof of a creator? A smart logical person would say so since nothing else
could explain "creation" .

Is the idea of an ultimate "programmer" absurd? Not as absurd as an uncreated universe that just
happens to be.


----------



## LittleNipper (Jun 6, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


Abiogenesis is the religion of GOATS.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 6, 2021)

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> Isn't all of the cosmos proof of a creator?


What a nonsensical idea. If everything is evidence, then nothing is evidence.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 6, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> > GLASNOST said:
> ...


Abiogenesis is a foregone conclusion. Once there was no life, then there was life. Only goofballs throw up their hands and declare "magic!" and walk away.


----------



## LittleNipper (Jun 6, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> > ViewFromAbove said:
> ...


And that is why you don't believe in GOD, because you are a "religious" zealot of abiogenesis and evolution from imagined "simple" lifeforms to the "imagined" more complex.


----------



## LittleNipper (Jun 6, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> > LittleNipper said:
> ...


So, you have created a biological creature from rock and water. I'd love to see this religiously held conclusion performed for the general public. PS> Create your own rocks and water first...


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 6, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > LittleNipper said:
> ...


As every bit of evidence shows. I don't believe in magical gods because I see no reason to believe in them. there may be gods. But I don't need them to explain abiogenesis or evolution.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 6, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> So, you have created a biological creature from rock and water.


False. I suggest you read up on this topic before commenting again, so you do not embarrass yourself any further.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 6, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > LittleNipper said:
> ...


Most 7th grade biology classes introduce students to the science of evolutionary biology and how populations evolve over time. Your madrassah apparently did not.









						How Did Life Become Complex, And Could It Happen Beyond Earth? - Astrobiology Magazine
					

The evolution of multicellular life happened with a number of key transitions.




					www.astrobio.net


----------



## Hollie (Jun 6, 2021)

So, we're now on page 12 and there's still no 'pwoof of the gods'.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 6, 2021)

Hollie said:


> So, we're now on page 12 and there's still no 'pwoof of the gods'.


Nope. Just a lot of people insisting everything is evidence. 

"Just look at everything!"


Zzzzzzzzz


----------



## ViewFromAbove (Jun 6, 2021)

james bond said:


> ViewFromAbove said:
> 
> 
> > E = m(c x c) is a RELATIONSHIP between Energy & Mass (matter) that includes Velocity (space-time).
> ...


The one constant is your belief in a made-up entity that has NO explanation to differentiate from other made-up ideas, like 
"There are 2 Gods; a male personality & female personality" (we are made in Gods' image?) OR 
there are MANY "Gods" that reflect powerful beings/aliens from other galaxies that are VERY advanced in their evolution.


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 6, 2021)

Hollie said:


> So, we're now on page 12 and there's still no 'pwoof of the gods'.


12 pages of martyrdom, I suppose. 

The Romans
The lions
The Jews
The religion section of the discussion forum
The off-top section of the discussion forum

*"Yea, though I enter uninvited into the valley of logic, I will fear no reasoning for the foundation of proof and deduction are mere principles of earnest validity put before me to test my faith from which I will never diverge!" *


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 6, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> An open mind isn't bias but inquisitive.


A closed Christian mind isn't inquisitive but it sure is biased.


----------



## LuckyDuck (Jun 7, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> The Physicist Hugh Ross simply explains how the Universe proves that GOD must exist.


Still belongs in the Religion and Philosophy section, not a "true" Science section.


----------



## LittleNipper (Jun 7, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


Honestly, I don't believe in "magical" "gods" either. Explaining and proving are entirely two different things. If you cannot create life, how would the environment. You can create an artificial environment to mimic any known type of environment. I can tell you that GOD spoke and by HIS WORD everything that is came to be.  You can tell me that lighting struck saltwater. Seems like you believe in a magical environment.


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 7, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Honestly, I don't believe in "magical" "gods" either. Explaining and proving are entirely two different things. If you cannot create life, how would the environment. You can create an artificial environment to mimic any known type of environment. .....


Bla ... bla ... bla  




LittleNipper said:


> ..... I can tell you that GOD spoke .....


Now we're at the crux of the problem. Your lies.


----------



## james bond (Jun 7, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> Funny that science has thoroughly and decisively disproved the bible and yet bible bashers now are trying to claim that the bible proves science.


You are wrong in so many ways.  The Bible is not a science book, but we find is science backs up the Bible.  Why shouldn't science back up what is true.  However, science does not back up evolution.


----------



## james bond (Jun 7, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> The burden of proof is on you.
> 
> 1). You say god exists but you have no proof.
> 2). Science has proved the bible is hogwash.
> ...



1.  You are too dumb to realize science has already provided the proof with KCA.
2.  We have 24-hr day and night, we see the ridge like around the world for a global flood and found oceans underneath the sea flood (fountains of the deep), the universe is expanding and accelerating, the EMS provides all the energy in the universe (where does evolution ever provide the universe's energy?), and more.

What we do not have are aliens that would show abiogenesis.  You are such a tool.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 7, 2021)

james bond said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > Funny that science has thoroughly and decisively disproved the bible and yet bible bashers now are trying to claim that the bible proves science.
> ...


Science does not "back up" the bible. Does science back up a flat earth?


----------



## JoeBlow (Jun 7, 2021)

james bond said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


I fail to see your reasoning for the bible being proof because a lot of people buy it?


----------



## james bond (Jun 7, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Abiogenesis is a foregone conclusion. Once there was no life, then there was life. Only goofballs throw up their hands and declare "magic!" and walk away.


Haha.  You are such a joke.  Abiogenesis is a joke.  At least you admit it's only _goofballs_ who think abiogenesis happens.

How can abiogenesis provide even the chick for the egg?  We discovered that the chicken came before the egg already (another evidence for how science backs up the Bible).


Hollie said:


> Science never led to the silly Kalam argument. It's not even an argument. Just a lot of poorly cobbled together philosophical slogans.


Sure it did.  KCA is only one evidence.  We also have 24-hr days.  We have how complex a bird embryo is which could only happen by creation; It blows your simple abiogenesis hypothesis out of the water lol, lol, lol.


----------



## james bond (Jun 7, 2021)

Hollie said:


> Science does not "back up" the bible. Does science back up a flat earth?


Flat earth was a hypothesis made up by Darwin's relatives.  They had to come up with something to argue against creation.


----------



## james bond (Jun 7, 2021)

Mr Joe said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > GLASNOST said:
> ...


People buy the Bible because it is the truth and full of wonderful things to explain our lives.  They don't buy Darwin's books anymore because much of it was proven wrong by science.


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 7, 2021)

james bond said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > Funny that science has thoroughly and decisively disproved the bible and yet bible bashers now are trying to claim that the bible proves science.
> ...



By debunking the bible science has proved that the Jew/Christian/Islam god does not exist and never did. 



james bond said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > THE SIMPLE ANALYSIS IS CLEAR:
> ...


* God didn't create the 24-hr day and night. Science created it. 
* Aliens were created by religion, not by science. 
* It was Science that discovered the earth, not religion. 

Your ignorance is standard primitivo. That is to say that you believe the same as primitive man. It is universally knowns as *"SUPERSTITION"*


----------



## james bond (Jun 7, 2021)

Hollie said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


You still have nothing.  Maybe you can find something here (I doubt it because you're brainless haha) -- Cosmological Argument (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)


----------



## james bond (Jun 7, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> An open mind is a willingness to consider new information and evidence. I.E., the opposite of a religious person.



When did you ever have an open mind?  You can't even admit abiogenesis does not happen.  For example, there are no aliens because abiogenesis does not happen.  Also, God didn't create any aliens.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 7, 2021)

james bond said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Science does not "back up" the bible. Does science back up a flat earth?
> ...


That's obviously nonsense. You obviously don't know your Bible'ology.


----------



## james bond (Jun 7, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> By debunking the bible science has proved that the Jew/Christian/Islam god does not exist and never did.


You just make statements that are not true.  The Bible was not debunked by science.



GLASNOST said:


> God didn't create the 24-hr day and night. Science created it.
> * Aliens were created by religion, not by science.
> * It was Science that discovered the earth, not religion.


Haha.  This is too stupid that no response is necessary.  No one ever made this dumb an argument.  Anyway, we can just ignore your "science" posts in the future.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 7, 2021)

james bond said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


Your childish attempts at insult do nothing to make a defendable argument for philosophical rambling.


----------



## JoeBlow (Jun 7, 2021)

james bond said:


> Mr Joe said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


But how is it the truth? Or do people just hope it's the truth?


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 7, 2021)

james bond said:


> People buy the Bible because it is the truth and full of wonderful things to explain our lives.  They don't buy Darwin's books anymore because much of it was proven wrong by science.


Science is forever fact-checking and double fact-checking its own findings and in that way, the credibility of Science remains strong and up-to-date. You, on the other hand, are content with lying and the church refuses to keep itself up-to-date because the church is a house of false cards which requires lies and dishonesty to get where it is.


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 7, 2021)

james bond said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > By debunking the bible science has proved that the Jew/Christian/Islam god does not exist and never did.
> ...


What part of my reply is *"too stupid"*? 

* Science created the 24-hr day and night. (The Egyptians) 
* Religion created aliens. (Jesus, god, the devil, etc.) 
* Science discovered the earth. (Navigated, explored, and discovered it). 

I pushed you against the wall. Now you're screwed with no response to the facts I gave you.


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 7, 2021)

Mr Joe said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > People buy the Bible because it is the truth and full of wonderful things to explain our lives.  They don't buy Darwin's books anymore because much of it was proven wrong by science.
> ...


Humans are only human. They hope against hope and are suckers if you can promise them ... 1). they can lose weight ... 2) they can become a millionaire .... 3)  they can go to heaven.


----------



## james bond (Jun 7, 2021)

Mr Joe said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Mr Joe said:
> ...


One has to have faith first.  After that, they see the truth in the Bible and how science backs it up.

For example, we know what happened with Jesus ascending to heaven.  If someone disproves that, then they destroy Christianity.

Another is we know non-believers will go to hell and suffer forever.  I think most non-believers don't believe that.


----------



## james bond (Jun 7, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> Mr Joe said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...



Heh.  I'm promising you that you'll go to hell and live in pain and suffering forever.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 7, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> , I don't believe in "magical" "gods" either.


Of course you do. You just don't like calling your invisible fairy"magic", because you are faced eith the idea that your magic nonsense is no more special or valid than any other.


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 7, 2021)

james bond said:


> Mr Joe said:
> 
> 
> > But how is it the truth? Or do people just hope it's the truth?
> ...



Yep. Truth doesn't matter to you. Faith in lies is the A to Z to it for you.

"But there are no WMD's in Irak!"
"Don't matter! I have faith that there are lots of WMD's over there so let's bomb the piss out of the place!"


james bond said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > Humans are only human. They hope against hope and are suckers if you can promise them ... 1). they can lose weight ... 2) they can become a millionaire .... 3)  they can go to heaven.
> ...


Sonny Boy, If I take you to the chocolate shop I'd have to hold your hand or you'll get lost at the first corner.


----------



## james bond (Jun 7, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> Yep. Truth doesn't matter to you. Faith in lies is the A to Z to it for you.
> 
> "But there are no WMD's in Irak!"
> "Don't matter! I have faith that there are lots of WMD's over there so let's bomb the piss out of the place!"


It just goes to show how stupid you are and why people end up ignoring you.  No one wants to be bored and keep rolling their eyeballs in their sockets.

Maybe if there are aliens, then they should do their probe upon you.  That would provide some kind of cheap entertainment for us believers here.  Ha ha.  Hee hee.



GLASNOST said:


> Sonny Boy, If I take you to the chocolate shop I'd have to hold your hand or you'll get lost at the first corner.



You can't even get your insults right.  You are the boy here while I am the adult.  However, you would not make it to the ice cream shop for your chocolate sundae because you've been a _bad_ boy.  You did not learn your lesson wekk.

Thus, you'll just have to learn better next time by experiencing more pain and suffering with no ice cream and other treats.


----------



## james bond (Jun 7, 2021)

Mr Joe said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Mr Joe said:
> ...


The Bible shows one the truth in many ways.  In Genesis, for example, we are given the origins of the universe, Earth, and everything in it.  What would you like to know, Mr. Joe?


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 7, 2021)

james bond said:


> It just goes to show how stupid you are and why people end up ignoring you.  No one wants to be bored and keep rolling their eyeballs in their sockets.
> 
> Maybe if there are aliens, then they should do their probe upon you.  That would provide some kind of cheap entertainment for us believers here.  Ha ha.  Hee hee.
> 
> ...



Do you think that you represent Jesus Christ? You have just embarrassed any decent Christians who might be watching this thread.


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 7, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > GLASNOST said:
> ...


Do you think that you represent Jesus Christ? You have just embarrassed any decent Christians who might be watching this thread.


----------



## JoeBlow (Jun 7, 2021)

james bond said:


> Mr Joe said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


But faith is the belief is something not proven. So how can science back it up?


----------



## JoeBlow (Jun 7, 2021)

james bond said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > Mr Joe said:
> ...


Too bad you can't make that promise because hell only exists on faith. Right?


----------



## JoeBlow (Jun 7, 2021)

james bond said:


> Mr Joe said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


I would like to know how you know that the bible is the truth?


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 7, 2021)




----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 7, 2021)

james bond said:


> You are the boy here while I am the adult


You would fail a 6th grade science quiz. You literally would not pass the basic middle school science requirements today.


----------



## LittleNipper (Jun 7, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> > Honestly, I don't believe in "magical" "gods" either. Explaining and proving are entirely two different things. If you cannot create life, how would the environment. You can create an artificial environment to mimic any known type of environment. .....
> ...


You have no problem saying, "BLA... BLA... BLA...", when faced with a logical observation. If I responded, "Bla... Bla... Bla...", in response to someone's belief in evolution ---- I can imagine what you would think. However, your response is not better --though it may originate from an atheist or a scientific mind. It's your inability to produce life, and not my inability to demonstrate righteousness ----- which in fact demonstrates GOD living trough those HE has redeemed.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 7, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> ou have no problem saying, "BLA... BLA... BLA...", when faced with a logical observation. If I responded, "Bla... Bla... Bla...", in response to someone's belief in evolution ---- I can imagine what you would think. However, your response is not better --though it may originate from an atheist or a scientific mind. It's your inability to produce life, and not my inability to demonstrate righteousness ----- which in fact demonstrates GOD living trough those HE has redeemed.


Great!  So, Lil Nipper... we were promised some proof. Can you just sum up some in your own words for us? It is YOUR thread, after all.


----------



## LittleNipper (Jun 7, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > You are the boy here while I am the adult
> ...


I don't think so. If a teacher asks a question in regard to what did someone said, or what was the Cambrian Period, a qualified answer could be constructed simply using terms like "It is believed..., So and so felt..., Scientists have not been able to produce a biological life but are of the conscientious... " And frankly, as long as the memorization of the lesson is in essay answer, or the multiple choice responses are accurate ----- it really doesn't matter what I really believe. The teacher has been shown that the student digested what was taught and is able to regurgitate it on command. If he believes it or not isn't the requirement.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 7, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> I don't think so.


Then you're wrong. So that makes two of you that would not pass the basic science curriculum of middle schools. Unless you lied to pass, of course. 

Age of earth: fail
Evolution: fail
Astronomy: fail
Geology: fail
Biology: fail
Chemistry: fail

Nobody would be asking you what "you believe". You sound absolutely ridiculous to dream up that little fantasy. They wouldbe asking for the correct answers, and you would fail spectacularly.


----------



## LittleNipper (Jun 7, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> > ou have no problem saying, "BLA... BLA... BLA...", when faced with a logical observation. If I responded, "Bla... Bla... Bla...", in response to someone's belief in evolution ---- I can imagine what you would think. However, your response is not better --though it may originate from an atheist or a scientific mind. It's your inability to produce life, and not my inability to demonstrate righteousness ----- which in fact demonstrates GOD living trough those HE has redeemed.
> ...


The Universe has a beginning. This scientific fact. And since it has a beginning there must have been an originator for it to occur. The only other possible explanation is that nothing cause it, and everything could not have come from nothing.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 7, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> The Universe has a beginning. This scientific fact.


False. It may have had no beginning at all. You don't get to make up facts, dude. 


LittleNipper said:


> And since it has a beginning there must have been an originator for it to occur.


Haha, let me guess... an originator that doesn't need a beginning. But everything has a beginning! 'Cept your special magic god. So not everything! Well, kind of everything!

That's a nice little game you have all rigged up for yourself.


----------



## LittleNipper (Jun 7, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think so.
> ...


Nonsense. I never lied. I simply stated, matter of fact. "According to ________, he believed that __________..."  No lie, I just don't believe it. Would you do terrible in a Bible history quiz, because you likely would not read it? You might say, "Well, I wouldn't take Bible history 101." But my response is that's your loss. I at least studied the evolution, and have my beliefs, but I didn't and don't condemn what I didn't learn.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 7, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > LittleNipper said:
> ...


I didn't say you lied. I said you would have to lie to pass and state answers as correct that you did not believe were correct. Else you would fail. And also that nobody gives a shit what you think someone believes, or what you believe. It isn't therapy. It's science class. And you would fail spectacularly.


----------



## LittleNipper (Jun 7, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> > The Universe has a beginning. This scientific fact.
> ...


Does SPIRIT need to be created? Material is one thing, but SPIRIT is so much more complex.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 7, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Does SPIRIT need to be created?


I don't know. Maybe "spirit" is just a figment of the imagination. N


----------



## LittleNipper (Jun 7, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


My instructors all eventually knew what I believed concerning NOAH's FLOOD, etc., etc... They didn't care what I believed regarding their material. They only cared that I knew it and understood it.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 7, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> My instructors all eventually knew what I believed concerning NOAH's FLOOD, etc., etc... They didn't care what I believed regarding their material.


Then you got a pass. Or you lied to pass, or some combination. It's a fact. If you took a 6th grade science quiz that asked the age of the earth, you would fail. 

You can try to slither around and put words in 'just the right order' to avoid this simple fact of reality, but it will still be a fact. You would certainly never make through a college biology course, without lying.


----------



## james bond (Jun 7, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> Do you think that you represent Jesus Christ? You have just embarrassed any decent Christians who might be watching this thread.


Yes, I am an ambassador of Jesus and I just slapped you silly because this is a science thread.  That said, Jesus is very important.  Do you know what the difference between Jesus and science is?


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 7, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > LittleNipper said:
> ...


1). The "bla-bla-bla" is in response to what you said about evolution that evolutionist never said.
2). "Bla-bla-bla" is what you've been saying about evolution since page one.

Addition: I offer you another to 14 pages of *"doubt"* beneath your OP claim of *"without a doubt"*. Where is this pwoof? None.


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 7, 2021)

james bond said:


> Yes, I am an ambassador of Jesus and I just slapped you silly because this is a science thread.  That said, Jesus is very important.  Do you know what the difference between Jesus and science is?


Is your ambassadorship of Jesus in conjunction with your guided tours of Atlantis? The difference between Jesus and science is that science has proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that the bible is a book of fiction.  The *only *evidence of God is this very same book of fiction. So the difference you ask of is in the fact that Jesus (one of thousands upon thousands of "prophets") was incorporated into a book about a fictional god to which science plays a large part in debunking. Is that the answer you are looking for of is it something much more fundamental as in Jesus being a *person* compared to science as being a *study*?


----------



## james bond (Jun 8, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Age of earth: fail
> Evolution: fail
> Astronomy: fail
> Geology: fail
> ...


We do not need to know how you did in HS lol.  Fail is your middle name.


----------



## LittleNipper (Jun 8, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, I am an ambassador of Jesus and I just slapped you silly because this is a science thread.  That said, Jesus is very important.  Do you know what the difference between Jesus and science is?
> ...


Atlantis is interesting maybe Crete, though I do accept that the FLOOD occurred beyond any reasonable doubt. Evidence of GOD is the ancient existence of JEWs to the present. Evidence of GOD is that there no other provable way for life to exist. Evidence of GOD are possibly angelic UFOs. Evidence of GOD is the historical proof of JESUS' existence. The evidence of GOD is the existence of Christians who live very protected lives. The evidence of GOD is no fear of death for Christians. The evidence of GOD is this wondrous Universe. The evidence of GOD in the the fact that even TIME had a beginning.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 8, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> though I do accept that the FLOOD occurred beyond any reasonable doubt.


Oops, just failed geology.


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 8, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


Exactly. The only evidence of "your" god is in the fictional book called the bible. So the Jew/Christ/Mohamad god of is fake .... by your own admission. You just now confirmed that you are aware of the false narrative in the bible and in so doing you admit that you are spreading lies about creation. That is not very nice of you because most people want as much truth as possible but you are trying to gather people for the purpose of dupping them. You should be ashamed of yourself but you are not. An extremely despicable thing for a person to do to another. You have been cheated in life but rather than warn people of the danger you instead want others to be cheated too. You get joy out of it and laugh at them.






If there is a hell, you've got a reserved seat in the burning pit.


----------



## james bond (Jun 10, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> > though I do accept that the FLOOD occurred beyond any reasonable doubt.
> ...


Science backs it up with the Mid-Atlantic Ridge and the oceans below the surface of the Earth, i.e. fountains of the deep.  Why else would we be looking for a planet with oceans below its surface for us to relocate to?  Ahahahahahahaha .  Atheists like you know nothing about real science.  No wonder we never get anywhere with you and your fairy tale of evolution.


----------



## james bond (Jun 10, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> The only evidence of "your" god is in the fictional book called the bible.


You are absolutely bonkers, bonkers, bonkers.  I feel sorry for your mother and family.  It's embarrassing.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 10, 2021)

james bond said:


> Science backs it up with the Mid-Atlantic Ridge and the oceans below the surface of the Earth, i.e. fountains of the deep.


Pathetic liar.


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 10, 2021)

james bond said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > The only evidence of "your" god is in the fictional book called the bible.
> ...


My whole family is literate. Yours is superstitious, believing in word-of-mouth camp-fire ghost stories.  

Jimmie Bondo:* "My 12-year-old sister got pregnant by a ghost up to the trailer camp. It's right here in the bible so don't you tell me she ain't no virgin! You just hush yo-self!" *


----------



## james bond (Jun 11, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Science backs it up with the Mid-Atlantic Ridge and the oceans below the surface of the Earth, i.e. fountains of the deep.
> ...


It's hard evidence.  Maybe you just can't accept the truth.

At least, I have something to that would disprove my beliefs and destroy Christianity.  I can accept that if that were to happen such as discovering an alien.

In your case, you don't have anything like that or do you?  It means you're just a stupid farking idiot type fool.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 11, 2021)

james bond said:


> It's hard evidence.


Pathetic liar.


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 11, 2021)

james bond said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


Pathetic liar.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 11, 2021)

Aliens being real would destroy Christianity?

How crazy is Jimmie Bond? Let us count the ways.


----------



## Grumblenuts (Jun 11, 2021)

Hollie said:


> Oh, gawd. Yet another in the endless "proof of the gawds" threads that always fail to provide proof.


"poof"!


----------



## itfitzme (Jun 11, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> The Physicist Hugh Ross simply explains how the Universe proves that GOD must exist.



So this paper is published in Nature, proven multiple times by independent researchers, and has become established science that is included in standard college textbooks?

Cuz if it ain't that, it ain't "science without a doubt".

Sounds more like Hugh Ross has gotten lost in his head and forgotten that science is physical measurements traceable to the standards of weights and measures.


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 11, 2021)

Grumblenuts said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, gawd. Yet another in the endless "proof of the gawds" threads that always fail to provide proof.
> ...


Proof of god:





The proof is in the book, the proof is in the book, man! You know, that book that was written by some primitive and superstitious geezers.


----------



## Winco (Jun 11, 2021)

So.......Where does everyone stand?

So many choices.

Q#1.   How old is the Earth?  Now be specific when you answer, kind of like Dog Years.
Meaning, don't try to interpret 'the Bible' in terms of God created the ........ in 6 Days, and Rested on 7.
Is the Bible saying a day is 24 hours?  Or in some Bible terms........?

So, straight up fellows.
No Bible Shit, no God or Jesus shit.
In terms of real time............is the Earth??????

1). 6,000 years old......according to the Biblical.
2). 4,500,000,000 years old.  That is 4.5 Billion for the math challenged.....according to the evolutionists.

Now i'm interested in RWI So-Called Fake Christians choosing 1) but claiming some kind of whataboutism.

So, what you got.

I got 2).


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 11, 2021)

Winco said:


> So.......Where does everyone stand?
> 
> So many choices.
> 
> ...


Well, what we gots is .... I know for a fact that god exists because my neighbour who's related to someone else, heard the priest say that it don't matter if he don't understand the bible cause 'n the preist was told by some nun that the bible was written by some other guys who didn't see anything they-selves but heard tell that there was a whole lot of hokus-pokus going on during (or within a century or two) the time Jesus. So they wrote all of it down and someone else stuck it all together and gave it a name. There's the proof and that's all ya' gots to know.


----------



## Wuwei (Jun 12, 2021)

The Scientific poof that GOD exists without a doubt​


LittleNipper said:


> The Physicist Hugh Ross simply explains how the Universe proves that GOD must exist.


I listened to much of the first hour of the video. Ross has the physics right until he invents a second time dimension for the domain of God and/or Jesus. That's where the "scientific proof" disappears and he simply talks religion. But nevertheless he makes the case that with the perfect fine tuning of physical constants and its multidimensional complexity, our universe is truly amazing. 

I can abide by him using the word "God" as the essence behind the origin of the universe at the point where physical knowledge ends. But his physical arguments can go no deeper than that. 

Yet he then strays from that. There is no physical or scientific proof that we should believe the bible nor any other religion. There is no reason given that we should go to church or pray or even hold that physical god in reverence. 

There are two uses for the word, "God."
1, A name for the unknown origin of the universe
2, A being in our image that we should pray to so he can micromanage our wishes.

The first is a trivial and not an enlightenment in science. 
There is no scientific proof of the second.

.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 12, 2021)

Wuwei said:


> The Scientific poof that GOD exists without a doubt​
> 
> 
> LittleNipper said:
> ...


Nicely stated.

Your comments will be met with, "... _but... but... but_... _proof of the gods is literally all around you_''.

And _that_, as they say, _is that_.


----------



## Wuwei (Jun 12, 2021)

Hollie said:


> Nicely stated.
> 
> Your comments will be met with, "... _but... but... but_... _proof of the gods is literally all around you_''.
> 
> And _that_, as they say, _is that_.


I remember Arthur Godfrey (yes, I'm that old) saying on TV. 
"Go to a beach and watch the sunset. That's all the proof you need that God exists." 
I was just a kid. Proof? it seemed so wrong.


----------



## itfitzme (Jun 12, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> The Physicist Hugh Ross simply explains how the Universe proves that GOD must exist.



Scientific "*Poof*"?


----------



## LittleNipper (Jun 12, 2021)

itfitzme said:


> LittleNipper said:
> 
> 
> > The Physicist Hugh Ross simply explains how the Universe proves that GOD must exist.
> ...


Let's ponder another way: Arguments why God (very probably) exists


----------



## Hollie (Jun 12, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> itfitzme said:
> 
> 
> > LittleNipper said:
> ...


Is this to mean you acknowledge your fraudulent "scientific proof of the gods'', claim?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 13, 2021)

LittleNipper said:


> Let's ponder another way: Arguments why God (very probably) exists


Why do you do this? Are we supposed to watch your videos and read your links, the n try to figure out how much of it you read and what your point is?

You did not watch the video. You did not read that link. It is pretty  obvious.


----------



## james bond (Jun 13, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Aliens being real would destroy Christianity?
> 
> How crazy is Jimmie Bond? Let us count the ways.



Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.  You still have no proof for abiogenesis and still an idiot who believes in it.  While I provided the falsification that would disprove creation science of Christianity, you have no falsification for abiogenesis.  Psst, it's Genesis, you moron.

You don't even know what would mean victory for your side.  Instead, each day passing without the the discovery of aliens means Genesis is right -- God did not create aliens.  There is just life on Earth.

The proof I have for it not happening are amino acids, while the 23 right ones make up a protein molecule, it does not just happen in nature without life and a single _living_ cell.

Your rhetoric has gotten so tiring and old, it is smelling worse and worse with each post.


----------



## james bond (Jun 13, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


I must've gotten to you good.  Down to the marrow.  Don't worry.  You'll get the rest of it in spades later.


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 13, 2021)

james bond said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


Consider yourself lucky that your stupidity and ignorance aren't painful. Even the ridicule you receive probably bounces right off of you without a thud.


----------



## james bond (Jun 14, 2021)

Grumblenuts said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, gawd. Yet another in the endless "proof of the gawds" threads that always fail to provide proof.
> ...


All you atheists get your "proof" _after_ death.  I think that's fair.


----------



## james bond (Jun 14, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > GLASNOST said:
> ...


I think your pain and suffering forever in the other place is adequate convincing.  Every day you will be reminded of the proof you wanted.  After all, life is _supernatural_.


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 14, 2021)

james bond said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > Consider yourself lucky that your stupidity and ignorance aren't painful. Even the ridicule you receive probably bounces right off of you without a thud.
> ...


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 14, 2021)

james bond said:


> You still have no proof for abiogenesis


Of course we do. Definitive proof. Once there was no life, then there was life. Abiogenesis is a foregone conclusion. Sorry, no deference to childish, magical iron age myths is paid. 

I notice you like to cackle a lot, as if you think it shows confidence. Your constant litany of pathetic lies and self assurance show exactly the opposite. These things show how shaky your childish faith is. No matter how much you cackle.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 14, 2021)

james bond said:


> I think your pain and suffering forever in the other place is adequate convincing.


Oh look, a delusional freak making magical threats. Put down the dead goat and adjust the bone in your nose, freak.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 14, 2021)

Now on page 16.

I think we’re due some proof.


----------



## Grumblenuts (Jun 14, 2021)

Poof!


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 14, 2021)

Hollie said:


> Now on page 16.
> 
> I think we’re due some proof.


Yeah, one would expect after 16 pages that the goods be provided. We're not being too impatient, are we?


----------



## Wuwei (Jun 15, 2021)

I think this "science" thread is dead. The OP and others have no concept of the meaning of proof.


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 15, 2021)

Wuwei said:


> I think this "science" thread is dead. The OP and others have no concept of the meaning of proof.


None at all. 

God = Bible. 
Science disproves the Bible. 
Therefore God does not exist.


----------



## Grumblenuts (Jun 15, 2021)

Aflac!


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 15, 2021)

Grumblenuts said:


> Aflac!


You see! Now that is poof there *is* a god! If there were no god birds would walk on four legs. Geeze! If you don't understand that ...... !


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 15, 2021)




----------



## james bond (Jun 15, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Once there was no life, then there was life.


It means creation is true.  Saying it and having it written down in the Holy Bible beats your lies.


Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Oh look, a delusional freak making magical threats. Put down the dead goat and adjust the bone in your nose, freak.


Not only are you a loser, but you are a lolser.  Science does not back up atheism nor evolution.


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 15, 2021)

james bond said:


> Not only are you a loser, but you are a lolser.  Science does not back up atheism nor evolution.


Science backs up evolution. Science has never claimed to back up atheism but it has destroyed the bible so by default it also destroys the biblical god which is not the same thing atheism.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 15, 2021)

james bond said:


> It means creation is true.


That's just a form of abiogenesis. It's just that rational people don't retreat to magical sky fairies for explanations the moment they don't understand something. But it does help keep you out of the way of people who are genuinely curious.


----------



## Grumblenuts (Jun 15, 2021)

Hollywood!


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 15, 2021)

Grumblenuts said:


> Hollywood!


It all looks rather poofy to me, particularly the way Jimmy holds his cigarette.


----------



## james bond (Jun 15, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Not only are you a loser, but you are a lolser.  Science does not back up atheism nor evolution.
> ...


Are you stupid lol?  Of course, you are.

Nothing backs up evolution.  Evolutionary science is supposed to back up evolution, i.e. no creation by God, but a _lie _cannot back up anything.  The only destruction will be your soul after you die.  Guaranteed.


----------



## james bond (Jun 15, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > It means creation is true.
> ...



>>That's just a form of abiogenesis. <<

Now, you've resorted to lies and delusions once again.  It's what makes you a lolser.  Abiogenesis is not backed up by anything.  Creation by God is backed up by science.  I should just call victory in this thread once more.


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 15, 2021)

james bond said:


> Are you stupid lol?  Of course, you are.
> 
> Nothing backs up evolution.  Evolutionary science is supposed to back up evolution, i.e. no creation by God, but a _lie _cannot back up anything.  The only destruction will be your soul after you die.  Guaranteed.


The stupidity is yours alone.

"Evolutionary science" (as you call it) proves the bible is fiction. Will your guarantee of the destruction of my soul be PR'd as "scientific proof without a doubt"? You can start a whole new thread on it. 
​


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 15, 2021)

james bond said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


Where is this_ "scientific poof of it ..... without a doubt"_?​


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 16, 2021)

james bond said:


> Abiogenesis is not backed up by anything.


Abiogenesis is simply a term for the formation of life where previously there was no life. I really can't dumb this down any further for you. Your choice is to say magical sky fairies did it. Good for you. Now take your little childish sky fairy toy and go sit in the corner, so you don't get in the way of people investigating abiogenesis.


----------



## Grumblenuts (Jun 16, 2021)

Also, "creation" would necessarily involve everything but "life" long before any immortal "souls" or "spirits" could even be logically considered at stake. This is why creationists like James are so desperate to deny all timelines involving billions of years in regard to Earth and our Universe.


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 16, 2021)

Grumblenuts said:


> Also, "creation" would necessarily involve everything but "life" long before any immortal "souls" or "spirits" could even be logically considered at stake. This is why creationists like James are so desperate to deny all timelines involving billions of years in regard to Earth and our Universe.


Guys like James are befuddled over many issues, stemming mostly from a lack of knowledge on most subjects, the English language being one of them. They are deeply susceptible to making utterly absurd conclusions and when you try to explain where they've misunderstood they go out of their mind and start spitting personal insults. They are on perpetual self-destruct.


----------



## james bond (Jun 17, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Are you stupid lol?  Of course, you are.
> ...


One of us is wrong and that means they're stupid.  It's not me because science backs up the Bible.  For example, we discovered the chicken came before the egg.  That makes abiogenesis impossible.  The only common ground we have is natural selection and that's because God created that.  One cannot create life from non-life.  That is a fact and is more evidence of creation.

As I said, a _lie_ cannot back up anything and that's what evolution is.  Darwinism is a hypothesis, but it is wrong.  There is no abiogenesis and no possibility of life on another planet besides Earth, i.e. no aliens.  The universe and life here began by creation.

Yes.  I can guarantee you will suffer pain and burning.  Yours is of the mundane type of punishment.  Perhaps, it's because your beliefs aren't strong and that's due to lack of knowledge about evolutionary science.

Anyway, I'm bored so will move on.


----------



## james bond (Jun 17, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Abiogenesis is not backed up by anything.
> ...


This is hilarious lol, lol, lol because even if I gave you the proof, you still believe in a lie, a fairy tale.  My sides hurt more than last time.


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## GLASNOST (Jun 17, 2021)

james bond said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


The fact that humans have two legs (not four) with a foot attached to each one of them is proof - with a doubt - that there is no god.


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## frigidweirdo (Jun 17, 2021)

james bond said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...



Well, the more we research the more we find stuff out.

Like how viruses are part of the evolutionary process.

No wonder religious people are claiming the coronavirus is fake. Just like the flu, small pox, ebola... all lies.....


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## Grumblenuts (Jun 17, 2021)

james bond said:


> Abiogenesis is not backed up by anything.





> Protobionts presumably then gave rise to prokaryotes, single-celled organisms lacking a distinct nucleus and other organelles because of the absence of internal membranes but capable of metabolism and self-replication and susceptible to natural selection. Examples of primitive prokaryotes still found on Earth today include archaea, which often inhabit extreme environments with conditions similar to those that may have existed billions of years ago, and cyanobacteria (blue-green algae), which also flourish in inhospitable environments and are of particular interest in understanding the origin of life, given their photosynthetic abilities. Stromatolites, deposits formed by the growth of blue-green algae, are the world’s oldest fossils, dating to 3.5 billion years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Grumblenuts (Jun 17, 2021)

I'm reconsidering. Pictures such as that ^^^ above, with all those microorganisms working their little flakes off together, truly suggest some kind of supernatural brain power at work. One hell bent on making sure humans could go to hell for being bad puppies, up to 3.5 billion years later, and that good little Bible beaters could claim ethical superiority and drift off to some weird, drugged out, nirvana precinct once dead..


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## frigidweirdo (Jun 17, 2021)

Grumblenuts said:


> I'm reconsidering. Pictures such as that ^^^ above, with all those microorganisms working their little flakes off together, truly suggest some kind of supernatural brain power at work. One hell bent on making sure humans could go to hell for being bad puppies, up to 3.5 billion years later, and that good little Bible beaters could claim ethical superiority and drift off to some weird, drugged out, nirvana precinct once dead..



So, you see something as complex, don't understand how it could have come into being, so it MUST BE something really intelligent. 

So, when you "see" God, and you see He's super complex and you don't understand how He could have come into being..... do you ask yourself "Who made God?"?


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## GLASNOST (Jun 17, 2021)

Grumblenuts said:


> I'm reconsidering. Pictures such as that ^^^ above, with all those microorganisms working their little flakes off together, truly suggest some kind of supernatural brain power at work. One hell bent on making sure humans could go to hell for being bad puppies, up to 3.5 billion years later, and that good little Bible beaters could claim ethical superiority and drift off to some weird, drugged out, nirvana precinct once dead..


One of the lesser-known facts of god's creation, as a matter of fact. Everyone today is so intent and mesmerized with debating the animals on Noa's Ark that we often forget the equally important dingy that Noah fabricated in order to save the world's microorganisms. And just think of it! Noah, by god's instruction, was able to construct a craft of rubber centuries before man had a clue! I challenge each and every atheist to prove otherwise!


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## GLASNOST (Jun 17, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> So, you see something as complex, don't understand how it could have come into being, so it MUST BE something really intelligent.


Not *"MUST BE"*. Only an assumption.


frigidweirdo said:


> So, when you "see" God, and you see He's super complex and you don't understand how He could have come into being..... do you ask yourself "Who made God?"?


What God are you talking about? QUOTE: *"when you see God"*. Who see? You see. Me no see.


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## Grumblenuts (Jun 17, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> So, when you "see" God, and you see He's super complex and you don't understand how He could have come into being..... do you ask yourself "Who made God?"?


? I thought that went without "seeing."


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## GLASNOST (Jun 17, 2021)

Grumblenuts said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> > So, when you "see" God, and you see He's super complex and you don't understand how He could have come into being..... do you ask yourself "Who made God?"?
> ...


That was good. I'd like to know how many "got it".


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## frigidweirdo (Jun 17, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> > So, you see something as complex, don't understand how it could have come into being, so it MUST BE something really intelligent.
> ...



Problem here is so many people don't make an assumption about God. They "KNOW" God exists. And their evidence is that the universe is complex. 

You did notice I put "see" in quotation marks, right? Shouldn't be too hard to understand what I meant, right?


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## Grumblenuts (Jun 17, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > frigidweirdo said:
> ...


That's why they get 'em young. Get indoctrinated early enough and it becomes unquestioned reality.


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## frigidweirdo (Jun 17, 2021)

Grumblenuts said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> > GLASNOST said:
> ...



Oh sure. You can see that people like Trump and others will use the same tactics as the religious. Because when you've been manipulated from birth, it's so easy to manipulate those people in adulthood.


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## Hollie (Jun 17, 2021)

james bond said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


Actually, science does not “back up” the Bible.

Where does science back up a flat earth?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 17, 2021)

james bond said:


> because even if I gave you the proof


There cant be "proof" of the magical, childish nonsense you believe. Because it is magic. That's what magic is, son.


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## GLASNOST (Jun 17, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> You did notice I put "see" in quotation marks, right? *Shouldn't be too hard to understand what I meant, right?*



 To understand what you meant (mean)? No. Look what else you wrote *>>>*


frigidweirdo said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


Where/What is this *"evidence"*? The _'complexity of the universe'_ is evidence that there is no god. Are you blind? Don't you see, man ... don't you see? Open your eyes. Take a look at the universe, can you not see that it is complex?


----------



## frigidweirdo (Jun 17, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> > You did notice I put "see" in quotation marks, right? *Shouldn't be too hard to understand what I meant, right?*
> ...



The problem with the argument that "The 'complexity of the universe' is evidence" is that we have to assume you're making the correct assumption here.

The universe could be complex for many, many, many different reasons. One of which is a God did it. 

The problem with this argument is that if only a God could have created a complex universe, then what created the complex God?


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 18, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > frigidweirdo said:
> ...


There is no *"correct" *assumption available.


frigidweirdo said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > frigidweirdo said:
> ...


That's right.



frigidweirdo said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > frigidweirdo said:
> ...


There is no evidence of a god ever having existed so your question is unanswerable. There is no *"correct assumption"* as I've already pointed out.  Biblical explanations (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) are fundamentally bumblefucking superstition.


----------



## Colin norris (Jun 18, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> View attachment 496691
> 
> How can God not exist?
> 
> *****HAPPY SMILE*****


How can that prove God exists? 
You are delusional.


----------



## frigidweirdo (Jun 18, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> > GLASNOST said:
> ...



Exactly, the chances that an assumption will be right, true or reflect reality is small, like 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance. Including the assumption that a god did it. 

That's why people like me don't say any one thing is right, but attack those who do say their version is right.


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 18, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > frigidweirdo said:
> ...


The chance is far less than that.


frigidweirdo said:


> That's why people like me don't say any one thing is right, but attack those who do say their version is right.


But you have no idea what is right so you cannot possibly know what is wrong.


----------



## frigidweirdo (Jun 18, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> > GLASNOST said:
> ...



Well, you get the point. 

The point isn't about whether I'm wrong or not, because I'm not saying anything is right. 

The point is to tell people who say "GOD MADE THE UNIVERSE" that their logic is bad.


----------



## Grumblenuts (Jun 18, 2021)

History is replete with a compelling lack of evidence for existence of gods.


----------



## Damaged Eagle (Jun 18, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > How can God not exist?
> ...








God is all around us therefore I know God exists.

*****HAPPY SMILE*****


----------



## Grumblenuts (Jun 18, 2021)




----------



## Damaged Eagle (Jun 18, 2021)

Grumblenuts said:


>







If that was meant for me I have one word for you...

PANTHEIST

******CHUCKLE*****


----------



## Grumblenuts (Jun 18, 2021)

Given:


> *Pantheism*, the doctrine that the universe conceived of as a whole is God and, conversely, that there is no God but the combined substance, forces, and laws that are manifested in the existing universe.


Then why even bother with "God"? Knowing that the vast majority of fellow god botherers will vehemently disagree with you? I just call it nature.


----------



## Damaged Eagle (Jun 18, 2021)

Grumblenuts said:


> Given:
> 
> 
> > *Pantheism*, the doctrine that the universe conceived of as a whole is God and, conversely, that there is no God but the combined substance, forces, and laws that are manifested in the existing universe.
> ...







I'm not an atheist.

My beliefs are my beliefs

Why do you care?

*****HAPPY SMILE*****


----------



## Colin norris (Jun 18, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> Colin norris said:
> 
> 
> > Damaged Eagle said:
> ...



There is no God and never has been. I challenge anyone on earth to provide irrefutable evidence that can be independently verified.  
Posting pictures which evolved as the planet evolved is not proof of any God.  
You do not know God exists. That's a lie.  You have never seen or interacted with any God. You might think you have because you believe in God but you have no evidence at all.  

Before you bombard me with your silly bible quotes and psalms etc, I am very good at this debate. 
I do nt care what you believe but don't force your lies and myths on me and spray your bullshit around as if it is fact.


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## Grumblenuts (Jun 18, 2021)

You rang. I answered. Knock yourself out.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 18, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> God is all around us therefore I know God exists


That's circular.


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## GLASNOST (Jun 19, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> God is all around us therefore I know God exists.
> 
> *****HAPPY SMILE*****


That's not god. That is the man-made concoction called "love".


----------



## GLASNOST (Jun 19, 2021)

Grumblenuts said:


>


I miss Jethro Tull's music something fierce.


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## GLASNOST (Jun 19, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> You do not know God exists. That's a lie.  You have never seen or interacted with any God. You might think you have because you believe in God but you have no evidence at all.
> 
> Before you bombard me with your silly bible quotes and psalms etc,* I am very good at this debate. ...*


I am looking forward to this. I hope she takes the bait.


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## Damaged Eagle (Jun 19, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > Colin norris said:
> ...






The proof is all around you. Oh! Ye of little faith.

*****HAPPY SMILE*****


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## Damaged Eagle (Jun 19, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > God is all around us therefore I know God exists
> ...







According to the theories about the big bang so is the universe.

*****CHUCKLE*****


----------



## Colin norris (Jun 19, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> Colin norris said:
> 
> 
> > Damaged Eagle said:
> ...



You can post that a thousand times and it's proof of nothing. God does not exist and never did. 

You fools believe in immaculate conception and virgin births yet it's me who has lit type faith? Faith in what?
Pathenogenisis is impossible in humans.  

Faith doe a not equate to fact. 
What can be asserted without evidence can dismissed without evidence. 
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.  You have nothing but delusions. Just another brain dead godbotherer.


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## GLASNOST (Jun 19, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> View attachment 503124
> 
> The proof is all around you. Oh! Ye of little faith.
> 
> *****HAPPY SMILE*****



Proof that there is no god:


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 19, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> According to the theories about the big bang so is the universe.


Which we had to wait 300,000 years to find out, using scientific method. The pantheists must have been too busy to help.


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## Damaged Eagle (Jun 19, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> You can post that a thousand times and it's proof of nothing. God does not exist and never did.



Oh! Ye of little faith.



Colin norris said:


> You fools believe in immaculate conception and virgin births yet it's me who has lit type faith? Faith in what?



Where did I say I believe in such?



Colin norris said:


> Pathenogenisis is impossible in humans.



Yet you believe the whole universe just magically appeared from nothingness.



Colin norris said:


> Faith doe a not equate to fact.



The fact is all around you.



Colin norris said:


> What can be asserted without evidence can dismissed without evidence.



What more evidence do you need?



Colin norris said:


> Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.  You have nothing but delusions. Just another brain dead godbotherer.



I'm not the one who asserts that they can magically get something from nothing as you say your prayers to the great alter of scientific consensus saying you know something that you haven't witnessed.

I on the other hand have a whole universe to bear witness to my beliefs.





*****CHUCKLE*****


----------



## Damaged Eagle (Jun 19, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > According to the theories about the big bang so is the universe.
> ...



What makes you think you're correct? Because some great alter of scientific consensus tells you that it's so?








Fort Fun Indiana said:


> The pantheists must have been too busy to help.



Were we now?

*****CHUCKLE*****


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## Blues Man (Jun 19, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > Colin norris said:
> ...


And you cannot know without a doubt that gods don't exist.

In fact there's a hell of a lot more of what we don't know than what we do.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 19, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> What makes you think you're correct?


About what? I will guess, Mr. Mysterious:

What makes me think it is correct that our observable universe is a circle (really a sphere) with earth at its center? Because the speed of light is pretty much constant in every direction. What shape results from drawing lines of equal length in every direction?

This is pretty basic stuff.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 19, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> And you cannot know without a doubt that gods don't exist.


Correct. But this statement is insufficient. We can never even gather any evidence against the existence of gods, because they are magic. One can never produce evidence for or against magic.

Which puts gods squarely on the same shelf with rainbow unicorns, Astrology, wiccan spells, voodoo, etc.


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## Blues Man (Jun 19, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> > And you cannot know without a doubt that gods don't exist.
> ...



I don't claim to know things I cannot possible know.
And I don't think it matters if gods exist or not.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 19, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> I don't claim to know things I cannot possible know.
> And I don't think it matters if gods exist or not.


Same. Though, i would still like to know.


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## Blues Man (Jun 19, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> > I don't claim to know things I cannot possible know.
> ...


Even if i knew I wouldn't worship them nor would i change the way I live my life.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 19, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Blues Man said:
> ...


Same. But i probably would ask for some favors. I imagine a magical fairy would be a useful friend.


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## GLASNOST (Jun 19, 2021)

Look carefully!


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## Colin norris (Jun 19, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Colin norris said:
> 
> 
> > Damaged Eagle said:
> ...



Again, if you have that proof, present it now or stop spreading lies and myths as fact. 
If religion had proof they would produce it immediately purely to destroy atheism. 
You have nothing and never will so until you prove me wrong, I'll say it again, there is no God and never has been ..


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 19, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> > Colin norris said:
> ...


You misunderstand. He didn't claim to have any evidence or proof of anything. He said you could not know for certain that there are no gods. And he is correct.


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## Colin norris (Jun 19, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Colin norris said:
> 
> 
> > Blues Man said:
> ...



My whole argument is based on lack of evidence that you don't have. I believe there is nothing and I see it everywhere and can explain everything that appears on earth today.  It's evolution and it is a fact proven by science a million times. 
Your beliefs are support by nothing. 
Godbotherers belch their crap like it is fact meaning they have proof. They don't and never will.

I know there is no God because nothing has been produced in 2000  years. Even after your jesus, for which there is very little evidence he ever existed and absolutely no proof he was the son of a god, nothing appeared to be prove there's a god but you all adopted it without proof. It's always the Same. Just faith and nothing else are what you lives are based on and some arrogantly believe they are obtaining eternity for it.  Still no evidence  about your silly heaven.  .

You'll have to do better than that if you are to convince me I'm wrong.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 19, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> that you don't have.


If your argument is that: we don't have evidence, therefore gods do not exist, that's not even a valid argument.

The other poster and i agree there is no evidence. And neither of us believe gods exist. 

And that's good enough for any rational, intelligent human being to put these childish toys aside.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 19, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> You'll have to do better than that if you are to convince me I'm wrong.


I could not convince you that you are wrong that no gods exist, nor would i ever try. I am more than content to say you don't know that, and move on.


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## Colin norris (Jun 19, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Colin norris said:
> 
> 
> > You'll have to do better than that if you are to convince me I'm wrong.
> ...



I will never move on until you people provide evidence of what you believe to be fact.  
You people teach your  unsubstantiated rubbish to little children. That's how sure you are about it. 
Provide the evidence or remain quiet. 

What can be asserted without evidence can dismissed without evidence.


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## Grumblenuts (Jun 19, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> What can be asserted without evidence can dismissed without evidence.


A catchy phrase, but not really helpful. Many have asserted a Tooth Fairy and convinced children that such beings exist by making "evidence" appear under pillows and such. But they'll later admit to having just been kidding -- to playing a practical joke on them just to witness their joy despite the false pretenses. Same as placing presents under a Christmas tree during the night before.

Given time and study, even with lots of evidence, magical beings can be dismissed because the evidence proves manufactured and thus un_compelling_. God botherers assert "evidence" all the time as well. But none has ever proven compelling to those like us who've subjected their so-called "evidence" to critical thought and scientific scrutiny.

I think religiously indoctrinating young children compels them to accept "Faith" as logical because the alternative is always presented as lonely, depressing, unhappy, damned, and so forth. Definitely not one of the cool kids. Imagine children being taught the same about rejecting belief in Santa Claus.  Easily suggests child abuse.. Possibly brain damage.. but, you know.. that's not cool. Can't go there.


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## Grumblenuts (Jun 19, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > What makes you think you're correct?
> ...


Yes, spherical was my thought as well. From our perspective. Our "observable" universe, given light speed limit in all directions, then presuming "The Universe" in its entirety much larger. But serious disagreements and conflicts persist among physicists and cosmologists about the Big Bang, expansion, any "center", "singularities", whether there even was a "beginning" to this Universe at all according to some. Incredible confusion persists. What a mess.


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## Colin norris (Jun 19, 2021)

Grumblenuts said:


> Colin norris said:
> 
> 
> > What can be asserted without evidence can dismissed without evidence.
> ...



That's a pathetic justification for teaching children lies about your filthy God. 
Atheism does not involve depression, damned or anything other reason you invent.  Thetes no evidence for that either.  They are not damned to your eternal fire or lice with that threat.  It doesn't exist. 

Every child is born an atheist and is deliberately infected by parents usually.  They are not even given an opportunity to satisfy themselves. You threaten them with hell and sins with countless punishments and absolutely none of them exist. You tell them God is watching them 24/7 and knows everything you do or think and if you break the basic laws punishment will swiftly follow.  This poor kid has the shit frightened out if him but he is told to simultaneously love the person who is to punish him.  

And that is what your religion peddles every day.  You're so caring.  Hypocrite too.


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## GLASNOST (Jun 19, 2021)

Scientific proof without a doubt​


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## Blues Man (Jun 20, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> > Colin norris said:
> ...


Why don't you read what I said again.

I don't know with any certainty that gods exist or don't exist but lack of evidence in itself is not proof of anything. The creationists say lack of scientific evidence is proof of god.  Rabid atheists say lack of evidence is proof that gods don't exist.

You can't even see that you are using the same flawed logic the people you criticize are using



Personally I don't think it matters if gods exist or not


----------



## Colin norris (Jun 20, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Colin norris said:
> 
> 
> > Blues Man said:
> ...



There is no flaw in my logic and you as a godbotherer can not prove it. 
How can a lack of evidence be proof of anything? That's absurd. 

What can be asserted without evidence can dismissed without evidence. 

Youre problem is you do believe and cannot tolerate it being challenged. 
So out come these whacky scenarios attempting to prove it.  
You don't start writing checks for a thousand dollars without checking the money is there.  Why would you base your whole life on something you have no evidence of.  
It's ridiculous.


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## GLASNOST (Jun 20, 2021)

Scientific proof without a doubt​


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## Blues Man (Jun 20, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> > Colin norris said:
> ...


Once again you demonstrate your lack of reading comprehension.  You are so biased that you can't actually read and understand what other people write.

I don't care if gods exist or not.  I do not worship any gods. Saying that I cannot without any certainty say whether gods exist or not in no way implies that I worship gods or that I believe they exist.  

But your insistence that lack of evidence is proof of something is flawed logic.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 20, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> I will never move on until you people provide evidence of what you believe to be fact.


Are you on drugs, son? I have already told you i don't believe gods exist. Good god, go breathe into a paper bag for a while or something.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 20, 2021)

Grumblenuts said:


> But serious disagreements and conflicts persist among physicists and cosmologists about the Big Bang, expansion, any "center", "singularities", whether there even was a "beginning" to this Universe at all according to some. Incredible confusion persists. What a mess.


True, but you are referring to a more broad, colloquialized version of "The Big Bang". Its strictest form -- that there was a period of rapid inflation -- is pretty much accepted as fact by all cosmologists and physicists.


----------



## Grumblenuts (Jun 20, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> That's a pathetic justification for teaching children lies about your filthy God.


Yes, that was partially my point, but we atheists obviously have no "filthy God" by definition. My main point was that just having any old "evidence" is never sufficient. Far beyond "what can be asserted without evidence", much of what gets asserted *with* purported evidence "can be dismissed without evidence." The phrase does a disservice to logic by clearly neglecting that large and  fundamental portion.


----------



## Grumblenuts (Jun 20, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Grumblenuts said:
> 
> 
> > But serious disagreements and conflicts persist among physicists and cosmologists about the Big Bang, expansion, any "center", "singularities", whether there even was a "beginning" to this Universe at all according to some. Incredible confusion persists. What a mess.
> ...


Still makes sense to me. But they actually appear to be retreating from that conclusion now,.. all of a sudden,.. among others. It's very weird. I'd swear the consensus believed the Universe was centered (iow, the "Bang" had an origin, even accounting for inflation) near some distant galaxy or other until very recently, despite the endless expanding balloon yabber. All talk of an edge or outer limit to the Universe.. now gone, kaput, nada. I gather that deeper consideration of black holes has changed things dramatically. Just waiting for more shoes to drop, I guess.. but not holding my breath.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 20, 2021)

Grumblenuts said:


> But they actually appear to be retreating from that conclusion now,.. all of a sudden,.. among others.


Uh...no. No idea what you are talking about, there.


----------



## Grumblenuts (Jun 20, 2021)

For example,


> In cosmological terms, the scientists explain that the quantum corrections can be thought of as a cosmological constant term (without the need for dark energy) and a radiation term. These terms *keep the universe at a finite size*, and therefore give it *an infinite age*. The terms also make predictions that agree closely with current observations of the cosmological constant and density of the universe.
> 
> *New gravity particle*
> 
> In physical terms, the model describes the universe as being filled with *a quantum fluid*. The scientists propose that this fluid might be composed of gravitons—hypothetical massless particles that mediate the force of gravity. If they exist, gravitons are thought to play a key role in a theory of quantum gravity.


Gee, how I don't wonder what that "quantum fluid" was previously called.. nearly universally.. all the way back to the ancient Greeks!


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## Colin norris (Jun 20, 2021)

Grumblenuts said:


> Colin norris said:
> 
> 
> > That's a pathetic justification for teaching children lies about your filthy God.
> ...



I disagree because the phrase is still applicable until proven otherwise.


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## Colin norris (Jun 20, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Colin norris said:
> 
> 
> > Blues Man said:
> ...



All that could be true but I don't resolve from my believe unless proven otherwise.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 20, 2021)

Grumblenuts said:


> Gee, how I don't wonder what that "quantum fluid" was previously called.. nearly universally.. all the way back to the ancient Greeks!


You can call it whatever you want., on a message board. Call it Fred. PS: those people you mentioned had no fucking idea whatsoever what they were talking about, so maybe refrain from deferring to them ever again.


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## Grumblenuts (Jun 20, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Grumblenuts said:
> 
> 
> > Gee, how I don't wonder what that "quantum fluid" was previously called.. nearly universally.. all the way back to the ancient Greeks!
> ...


Yeah, yeah, WTF ever, Foghorn Leghorn. Happy Father's Day and Summer Solstice!


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## Wuwei (Jun 20, 2021)

Colin norris​Have you heard of Gödel's incompleteness theorems?
From Wikipedia:
_The first incompleteness theorem states that no consistent system of axioms whose theorems can be listed by an effective procedure is capable of proving all truths about the arithmetic of natural numbers. For any such consistent formal system, there will always be statements about natural numbers that are true, but that are unprovable within the system._​
I have read that the theorem applies to arithmetical structures that minimally include natural numbers, such as real and complex numbers, etc.

These structures mean that possibly in nature described by the laws of physics, there are things that are true, but nevertheless cannot be proven to be true. There is a book on the proof of Gödel's theorem - a real mind blower. Also Hofstadter's book, _Gödel, Escher, Bach _covers a simpler example of logical systems that cannot be proven except when going to a higher level system.

So that throws cold water on anyone who thinks things are false if they cannot be proven to be true.

.


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## GLASNOST (Jun 20, 2021)

Grumblenuts said:


> Colin norris said:
> 
> 
> > That's a pathetic justification for teaching children lies about your filthy God.
> ...


He mistook your sarcasm.


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## GLASNOST (Jun 20, 2021)

Wuwei said:


> Have you heard of Gödel's incompleteness theorems?
> From Wikipedia:
> _The first incompleteness theorem states that no consistent system of axioms whose theorems can be listed by an effective procedure is capable of proving all truths about the arithmetic of natural numbers. For any such consistent formal system, there will always be statements about natural numbers that are true, but that are unprovable within the system._​I have read that the theorem applies to arithmetical structures that minimally include natural numbers, such as real and complex numbers, etc
> These structures mean that possibly in nature described by the laws of physics, there are things that are true, but nevertheless cannot be proven to be true. There is a book on the proof of Gödel's theorem - a real mind blower. Also Hofstadter's book, _Gödel, Escher, Bach _covers a simpler example of logical systems that cannot be proven except when going to a higher level system.
> ...


Any Agnostic worth his salt would never conclude anything is "false" with regard to the source of life. Whatever cannot be proven is "unproven" and cannot be considered "true".  And now the bible bashers will get indignant over it and claim that non-belief is the same as disbelief.


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## Blues Man (Jun 21, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> > Colin norris said:
> ...


So you're just as bad as the people you criticize.  You believe what you believe without any certainty that you are actually correct


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## Colin norris (Jun 21, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Colin norris said:
> 
> 
> > Blues Man said:
> ...



I know.  I've for this hereditary problem. I've had it since childhood, like a club foot. 
It originates from not believing anything that can't be proven to exist. 
Of course if you have proof God exists and show that on here within 24 hours, I will walk from times square to the stock exchange in February in the nude.  

Wouldn't it be good to provide proof of God and see me make a fool of myself? 
See how you go.  I'll wait here.


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## GLASNOST (Jun 21, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> ... I've for this hereditary problem. ..... It originates from *not believing anything that can't be proven to exist.*


What an awful person you must be!


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## GLASNOST (Jun 21, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Colin norris said:
> 
> 
> > Blues Man said:
> ...


He believes what he believes ..... or he believes that he believes? I think you disbelieve what you disbelieve because believers believe in what is believable while you cannot believe that the unbelievable is unbelieved.


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## Damaged Eagle (Jun 21, 2021)

So if the universe didn't exist fifteen billion years ago that must mean that it still doesn't exist or that miracle happened right?

*****CHUCKLE*****


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## Blues Man (Jun 21, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> > Colin norris said:
> ...


Once again you demonstrate your poor reading comprehension.

There is no conclusive evidence that can prove gods do or do not exist, therefore stating that you know without a doubt that gods do not exist is no different than someone saying they do exist.


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## Blues Man (Jun 21, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> > Colin norris said:
> ...


I neither believe nor disbelieve in gods


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## GLASNOST (Jun 21, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> View attachment 503904
> 
> So if the universe didn't exist fifteen billion years ago that must mean that it still doesn't exist or that miracle happened right?






So salad doesn't exist or that miracle happened right?


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## Damaged Eagle (Jun 21, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > View attachment 503904
> ...







I'm not the one who stole the Creation story from religion that would be those who worship at the Great Alter Of Scientific Consensus when they slapped a new label on it calling it the big bang or somethin'

*****CHUCKLE*****


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## GLASNOST (Jun 21, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> I'm not the one who stole the Creation story from religion that would be those who worship at the Great Alter Of Scientific Consensus when they slapped a new label on it calling it the big bang or somethin'


Wrong. Science didn't rename unicorns. Science says that there is proof of horses but your unicorn doesn't exist.


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## Damaged Eagle (Jun 21, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> Wrong. Science didn't rename unicorns. Science says that there is proof of horses but your unicorn doesn't exist.









So we're all supposed to believe that the universe appeared out of nowhere some fifteen billion years ago because the Great Alter Of Scientific Consensus said it did.

Sounds like a creation story to me.

*****CHUCKLE*****


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## GLASNOST (Jun 21, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> So we're all supposed to believe that the universe appeared out of nowhere some fifteen billion years ago because the Great Alter Of Scientific Consensus said it did.


Who says the universe appeared *out of nowhere* some fifteen billion years ago? Science doesn't say so and neither do I. Science proves that creation (as it states in the bible) is hogwash. If you don't know who killed Cock Robin it doesn't mean he isn't dead.


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## Damaged Eagle (Jun 21, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > So we're all supposed to believe that the universe appeared out of nowhere some fifteen billion years ago because the Great Alter Of Scientific Consensus said it did.
> ...







So where was the universe prior to that moment in time?

Did the magic spaghetti monster of scientific consensus barf it up?

*****CHUCKLE*****


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## Grumblenuts (Jun 21, 2021)

Wuwei said:


> These structures mean that possibly in nature described by the laws of physics, there are things that are true, but nevertheless cannot be proven to be true.


Hey, turns out The Easter Bunny could ("possibly") be real.. Yay!


Wuwei said:


> So that throws cold water on anyone who thinks things are false if they cannot be proven to be true.


Yes, because of "a simpler example of logical systems that cannot be proven except when going to a higher level system." The Tooth Fairy, for instance, cannot "possibly" be proven "true" without first imposing god level arithmetical structure.. minimally.


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## GLASNOST (Jun 21, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > Damaged Eagle said:
> ...


Is that important to know?


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## Damaged Eagle (Jun 21, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > GLASNOST said:
> ...







Obviously not if you worship at the Great Alter Of Scientific Consensus and believe the magic flying spaghetti monster barfed the universe into existence.

*****CHUCKLE*****


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## GLASNOST (Jun 21, 2021)

Grumblenuts said:


> Wuwei said:
> 
> 
> > ... The Tooth Fairy, for instance, cannot "possibly" be proven "true" .....


I know for a fact it was my father who put the coin into a glass. I was fake-sleeping and had one eye open. And although it would be highly improbably for him to have taken on the task worldwide, claiming that he (and he alone) was responsible for distributing coins to the children of the world would *at least *be based upon fact and that fact does disprove any notion of a _"tooth fairy"_.


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## Damaged Eagle (Jun 21, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> Grumblenuts said:
> 
> 
> > Wuwei said:
> ...






How do you know he didn't self identify as one?

*****CHUCKLE*****


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## GLASNOST (Jun 21, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > Damaged Eagle said:
> ...


So in your final analysis life was created either by some "god" or by a spaghetti monster? You must be American ... you are only allowed two, extremely opposed choices in life, no matter the subject.


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## GLASNOST (Jun 21, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > Grumblenuts said:
> ...


Because I was awake.


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## there4eyeM (Jun 21, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > GLASNOST said:
> ...


So true!


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## Damaged Eagle (Jun 21, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > GLASNOST said:
> ...






So where was the universe prior to your big bang creation myth taught by the Great Alter Of Scientific Consensus that you worship and kneel at?

*****CHUCKLE*****


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## Blues Man (Jun 21, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > Damaged Eagle said:
> ...


How would you life change if at noon today that a definitive 100% confirmed no doubt in anyone's mind proof of how the universe came to be was published?

It wouldn't change my life at all.


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## Grumblenuts (Jun 21, 2021)

Hate to distract y'all from all the current distraction, but this very topical and interesting bit just popped up on my YouTube menu:

In case anyone's actually still interested in the sort of thing scientific methods of inquiry can and do accomplish.. every day.


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## GLASNOST (Jun 21, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > So in your final analysis life was created either by some "god" or by a spaghetti monster? You must be American ... you are only allowed two, extremely opposed choices in life, no matter the subject.
> ...


In preparation.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 21, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> if the universe didn't exist fifteen billion years ago that must mean that it still doesn't exist or that miracle happened right?


No. Thanks for asking.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 21, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> So we're all supposed to believe that the universe appeared out of nowhere some fifteen billion years ago because the Great Alter Of Scientific Consensus said it did.


No. That is how it works in your religious circles, but not in scientific circles. Thanks for asking.


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## Damaged Eagle (Jun 21, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> How would you life change if at noon today that a definitive 100% confirmed no doubt in anyone's mind proof of how the universe came to be was published?
> 
> It wouldn't change my life at all.






Or you may find out that your life is simply...

*****CHUCKLE*****


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## Damaged Eagle (Jun 21, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > So we're all supposed to believe that the universe appeared out of nowhere some fifteen billion years ago because the Great Alter Of Scientific Consensus said it did.
> ...







Which religious circle would that be?

*****CHUCKLE*****


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 21, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> Which religious circle would that be?


All of them.


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## Damaged Eagle (Jun 21, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > Which religious circle would that be?
> ...







Wow!!! Everyone must worship me since I'm all religious circles

*****CHUCKLE*****


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 21, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> Wow!!! Everyone must worship me since I'm all religious circles


If you dont have the sand to have this discussion, you can bow out.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 21, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Damaged Eagle said:
> ...


 Believing "because I say so" is what you religious people do. Not scientists. Get it?


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## Damaged Eagle (Jun 21, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Believing "because I say so" is what you religious people do. Not scientists. Get it?







I'll remember that next time you say to listen to Doctor Fauci

*****CHUCKLE*****


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## Damaged Eagle (Jun 21, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > Wow!!! Everyone must worship me since I'm all religious circles
> ...






What do we need sand for when there's plenty of dust?

*****CHUCKLE*****


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 21, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> I'll remember


But you are then free to check the evidence. Again, i am not surprised you cant recognize this distinction. This is the handicap of years of believing magical nonsense.


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## Damaged Eagle (Jun 21, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > I'll remember
> ...






What magical nonsense would that be oh cultist believer at the Great Alter Of Scientific Consensus?

*****CHUCKLE*****


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## GLASNOST (Jun 21, 2021)

*Scientific proof there is no god without a doubt



*


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## Blues Man (Jun 22, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> > How would you life change if at noon today that a definitive 100% confirmed no doubt in anyone's mind proof of how the universe came to be was published?
> ...


So why care>?


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## Damaged Eagle (Jun 22, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > Blues Man said:
> ...






So why do you?

*****CHUCKLE*****


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## Blues Man (Jun 22, 2021)

Damaged Eagle said:


> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> > Damaged Eagle said:
> ...


you obviously haven't read any of my posts.

I have stated many times that i don't think it matters if gods exist or not.


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## Damaged Eagle (Jun 22, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> you obviously haven't read any of my posts.
> 
> I have stated many times that i don't think it matters if gods exist or not.






And yet here we are

*****CHUCKLE*****


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## james bond (Jun 23, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Not only are you a loser, but you are a lolser.  Science does not back up atheism nor evolution.
> ...


You're worse than FFI.  You are a lmaoser .  Science does not back up atheism.  It's still hypotheses.  

If I saw you in public, I'd start lmao (which is a bit rude but can't help it) and everybody would soon join in because you're a lmaoser.


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## james bond (Jun 23, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> The fact that humans have two legs (not four) with a foot attached to each one of them is proof - with a doubt - that there is no god.





frigidweirdo said:


> Well, the more we research the more we find stuff out.
> 
> Like how viruses are part of the evolutionary process.
> 
> No wonder religious people are claiming the coronavirus is fake. Just like the flu, small pox, ebola... all lies.....





Grumblenuts said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Abiogenesis is not backed up by anything.
> ...


What Grumblenuts and others are just pointing out _natural selection_ created by God.  There are no common ancestor as claimed by evolutionary dunderheads nor did it begin with abiogenesis.

It's amazing how people can be fooled so simply by the lies of fake evolutionary "science."


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## GLASNOST (Jun 23, 2021)

james bond said:


> GLASNOST said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


You're only looking for attention so I'm giving you the bare minimum.


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## james bond (Jun 23, 2021)

GLASNOST said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > GLASNOST said:
> ...


Lmaoser.  If I'm looking for comedy in a science forum, then you are it.  I'd bet you look funny and silly in real life reflecting your posts.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 23, 2021)

james bond said:


> What @Grumblenuts and others are just pointing out _natural selection_ created by God.


No, numbnuts. You don't get to say that. You deny that natural selection causes speciation. Did you forget already? Sorry...you are trapped in your little YEC fantasy and don't get to take advantage of this little equivocation. You get to sot in the corner with the astrologists and the spoonbenders, ya freak.


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## james bond (Jun 23, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > What @Grumblenuts and others are just pointing out _natural selection_ created by God.
> ...


Finally, you are able to post something using a _fake_ scientific word.  No one has observed what you wrote about just like _abiogenesis_.  You are such a believer of evolution that you believe any stupid fairy tale.  What a stupid, brainless dolt you are to believe in such make believe.

Some of us actually want to see it instead of just believing in fairy tales; It's why we want to see transitional forms hahahahahahahahahaha.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 23, 2021)

james bond said:


> No one has observed what you wrote about just like _abiogenesis_.


Yes they have. This has been spoonfed to you more than once. You are embarrassing yourself.


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## james bond (Jun 23, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > No one has observed what you wrote about just like _abiogenesis_.
> ...


No, your lies about speciation and abiogenesis are just feces that you love to eat.  Your kind practically devour it daily just like it is a religion (which it is).  There is no real science involved and there are no transitional fossils and no evidence of it.  Just like evolution.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 24, 2021)

james bond said:


> No, your lies about speciation and abiogenesis are just feces that you love to eat.


I also love being an educated person who doesn't get laughed out of the room when in educated company. And not failing 6th grade science quizzes. Go ahead, have your little hissy fit. Cry it all out. Then check the scoreboard dummy.


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## james bond (Jun 24, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > No, your lies about speciation and abiogenesis are just feces that you love to eat.
> ...


The scoreboard shows God and the Bible are the truth while evolution is just hypotheses.


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## james bond (Jun 25, 2021)

I think more evidence is what we have been talking about with evolution and that is long, long, long time.  I don't think any of us can relate to a billion years, let alone a million years.  We can relate to currency such as a million or billion dollars, pounds, francs, yuan, etc.  IOW, we have a frame of reference.  

I don't think we can relate the time we live to millions or billions of years.  It's too much of a huge difference.  Even our history, whether you believe in 6,000 years to 200,000 years, is hard to relate to a million or billion years.  IOW, we cannot relate to evolutionary time (because it's a lie).


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 25, 2021)

james bond said:


> The scoreboard shows God and the Bible are the truth while evolution is just hypotheses.


Oops, no. Sorry. I would think failing a 6th grade science quiz would have been a strong clue.


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## GLASNOST (Jun 29, 2021)




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## Canon Shooter (Jun 29, 2021)

Clapton is God...


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## GLASNOST (Jun 29, 2021)

Canon Shooter said:


> Clapton is God...


Layla certainly didn't think so.


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