# Islam's European Conquest: Is America Next?



## ozzmdj

Britain, birthplace of parliamentary democracy, has fallen to Islam.  Oxford, once home to the likes of C.S. Lewis, now houses a giant Eastern Islamic Studies Center.  If this were the only Islamic addition to Oxford, the mood would be less somber, but when Oxford citizens are forced to awake every morning to the Muslim call to prayer with the full consent of the Church of England, nothing short of conquest has taken place.....American Thinker- Print Article

Cut and Run is the only option


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## Mr.Fitnah

Perfectly Human's Subterranean Circus - What Islam is Not.

The continuum


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## Bootneck

ozzmdj said:


> Britain, birthplace of parliamentary democracy, has fallen to Islam.  Oxford, once home to the likes of C.S. Lewis, now houses a giant Eastern Islamic Studies Center.  If this were the only Islamic addition to Oxford, the mood would be less somber, but when Oxford citizens are forced to awake every morning to the Muslim call to prayer with the full consent of the Church of England, nothing short of conquest has taken place.....American Thinker- Print Article
> 
> Cut and Run is the only option



YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN.

Suggest you concern yourself with your own country's problems. You'll at least sound as though you know what you're talking about.


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## publicprotector

OMG, the propaganda is working, an Islamic study centre what's next we cry. Give us a break will you, where else would you expect a study centre to be but in a centre of learning.

How so many people are taken in by the anti Muslim brigade is ridiculous. The people pushing this agenda were the same ones who said the Jews were to blame for everything now its Islam and its followers.

Perhaps you have not noticed but Christians are called to prayer so whats the difference, none. Time and culture does not stand still and just because we live in a more liberal open society does not mean we are being converted to Islam or anything else.

But of course if you want to push the perps agenda and don't mind being a mouthpiece for them then go ahead.


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## JW Frogen

It will be a cold day in Allah's anus before I give up drinking.


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## Epsilon Delta

Total population of the United Kingdom: ~60,000,000
Total population of Muslims in the United Kingdom: ~2,000,000 (~3%)
Muslims in the UK who support Sharia Law, according to article in OP: 40%

Therefore; 

Percentage of population in the UK who at least support (let alone live by) Sharia Law: *1.2%*

1.2% of the population: YES; THE CONQUEST IS COMPLETE!!!


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## editec

> but when Oxford citizens are forced to awake every morning to the Muslim call to prayer with the full consent of the Church of England, nothing short of conquest has taken place.....


 
Now I expect this author has some idea how the athesits felt when they are awoken every sunday morningf by those church bells.


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## Mr.Fitnah

The UK is doing nothing to preserve its heritage.
If atheist don't like church bells, they are really going to hate being beheaded.


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## mystic

ozzmdj said:


> Britain, birthplace of parliamentary democracy, has fallen to Islam.  Oxford, once home to the likes of C.S. Lewis, now houses a giant Eastern Islamic Studies Center.  If this were the only Islamic addition to Oxford, the mood would be less somber, but when Oxford citizens are forced to awake every morning to the Muslim call to prayer with the full consent of the Church of England, nothing short of conquest has taken place.....American Thinker- Print Article



Sooooooooo.......?

You have a problem with the separation of church and state? Mad that your religion isn't the only one allowed to be practiced? 
If you like theocracies I can suggest a few places for you to move to.


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## mystic

Mr.Fitnah said:


> The UK is doing nothing to preserve its heritage.
> If atheist don't like church bells, they are really going to hate being beheaded.



*ahem* Mr. Fitnah, I think the parallel between church bells _would_ be the call to prayer. But hey, what do I know? 

Being beheaded would more equivalent to the Christian tradition of burning at the stake.


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## Toro

No.

What a silly premise.


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## The_Halfmoon

although it's crazy that western countries would even consider sharia law... I highly doubt Islam will take over in the next few generations... give it a few centuries maybe


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## The_Halfmoon

and btw, the call to prayer is one of the few genuinely nice things about islam... arab music in general is very lovely


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## Mr.Fitnah

mystic said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UK is doing nothing to preserve its heritage.
> If atheist don't like church bells, they are really going to hate being beheaded.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ahem* Mr. Fitnah, I think the parallel between church bells _would_ be the call to prayer. But hey, what do I know?
> 
> Being beheaded would more equivalent to the Christian tradition of burning at the stake.
Click to expand...


There is no Christian scripture that sanctifies burning at the stake ,
Beheading in Islam?  a piece written by a friend who I had just spoken to on phone and correspond with FrontPage Magazine - The Sacred Muslim Practice of Beheading


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## Kalam

Mr.Fitnah said:


> There is no Christian scripture that sanctifies burning at the stake ,


Must I school you in your own religion as well, Fitnuts? 

_If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. *Both he and they must be burned in the fire*, so that no wickedness will be among you._ - Leviticus 20:14

_If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; *she must be burned in the fire.*_ - Leviticus 21:9

_"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, *and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.*"_ - Jesus (AS), according to John 15:6​
You're somewhat right, though; stoning seems to be a more appropriate punishment from a Biblical standpoint:

_*anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. *Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death._ - Leviticus 24:16

_While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was discovered gathering wood on the Sabbath day. Those who caught him at it brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly. But they kept him in custody, for there was no clear decision as to what should be done with him. Then the Lord said to Moses, *"This man shall be put to death; let the whole community stone him outside the camp." So the whole community led him outside the camp and stoned him to death as the Lord had commanded Moses.*_ - Numbers 15:32-26

_If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of the town. They shall say to the elders, 'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard.' *Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death.*.._ - Deut. 21:18-21

_If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there *the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. *You must purge the evil from among you._ - Deut. 22:20-21

_If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of the city, *and ye shall stone them with stones that they die*; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you._ - Deut. 22:23-24

_If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the LORD gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God in violation of his covenant, and contrary to my command* has worshiped other gods*, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars of the sky, and this has been brought to your attention, then you must investigate it thoroughly. If it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and *stone that person to death.*_ - Deut. 17:2-5​


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## Epsilon Delta

I must spread some reputation around before I can give it to Kalaam again. = (


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## Mr.Fitnah

Romans 10:4: For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.


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## The_Halfmoon

yah I pretty much ignore much of the old testament


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## Neser Boha

Oooh, Islamophobes getting their panties in a wad...  again.  You really need to stop with the fear-mongering because it ain't doing much good to anyone.  It only gives rise to hatred and lays fertile ground for future problems in the society - xenophobia, racism, etc.  Is that what you want?


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## Mr.Fitnah

False claims  of Islamophobia are an insufficient answer to Islams genocidal supremacy policies .


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## Neser Boha

Mr.Fitnah said:


> False claims  of Islamophobia are an insufficient answer to Islams genocidal supremacy policies .



Islam, my dear, is not a government - it can't have 'policies'.


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## Mr.Fitnah

Neser Boha said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> False claims  of Islamophobia are an insufficient answer to Islams genocidal supremacy policies .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islam, my dear, is not a government - it can't have 'policies'.
Click to expand...

Islam has policies  for law,justice , economics,  personal matters  and social interaction, it has policies for everything Islam and politics are inseparable.


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## Neser Boha

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Neser Boha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> False claims  of Islamophobia are an insufficient answer to Islams genocidal supremacy policies .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islam, my dear, is not a government - it can't have 'policies'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islam has policies  for law,justice , economics,  personal matters  and social interaction, it has policies for everything Islam and politics are inseparable.
Click to expand...


Well, in that case Christianity has policies on everything as well - yet how many people follow them all or even know of/agree with them all?  Do you know how many Muslims agree with/apply the Sharia law?  How many of them do you think agree with public stoning, etc?  You can't put them all in the same box - that's intellectually dishonest!  It's not only impossible, but also potentially dangerous.  There are millions upon millions on Muslims and I don't think they could all elect one person to speak for all of them - or even ten.  There are Muslims that love drinking alcohol, there are Muslims that don't wear head-garb, there are Muslims that party A LOT, there are Muslims that are mathematicians, scientists, cooks, drug-addicts, taxi-drivers, people with families whose main concern is to take care of those families... They are just like the rest of us.  One word, one concept, can't define us just as 'Islam' can't define all Muslims.

I wish you'd just stop this nonsense because it makes you look extremely narrow-minded and hateful.


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## Mr.Fitnah

Islam defines itself , believers and disbelievers clearly  and concisely .
I see no benefit to honesty  or mankind to ignore what the scripture says .

33:36.  
It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allâh and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allâh and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in a plain error. 

Islam Question and Answer - Judging by that which Allaah has revealed
Islam Question and Answer - Should he turn to the human rights organizations to get his rights?
Islam Question and Answer - The kufr of one who rules according to other than what Allaah revealed

Allaah has commanded us to refer matters to His judgement and to establish Sharee&#8216;ah, and He has forbidden us to rule with anything else, as is clear from a number of aayaat in the Qur&#8217;aan, such as the aayaat in Soorat al-Maa&#8217;idah (5) which discuss ruling according to what Allaah has revealed, and mention the following topics:

The command to rule according to what Allaah has revealed: &#8220;And so judge between them by what Allaah has revealed . . .&#8221; [aayah 49]

Warning against ruling by other than what Allaah has revealed: &#8220;. . . and follow not their vain desires . . .&#8221; [aayah 49]

Warning against compromising on any detail of Sharee&#8216;ah, no matter how small: &#8220;. . . but beware of them lest they turn you far away from some of that which Allaah has sent down to you . . .&#8221; [aayah 49]

Forbidding seeking the ruling of jaahiliyyah, as is expressed in the rhetorical question &#8220;Do they then seek the judgement of (the Days of) Ignorance?&#8221; [aayah 50]

The statement that nobody is better than Allaah to judge: &#8220;. . . and who is better in judgement than Allaah for a people who have firm Faith?&#8221; [aayah 50]

The statement that whoever does not judge according to what Allaah revealed is a kaafir, a zaalim (oppressor or wrongdoer) and a faasiq (sinner), as Allaah says: &#8220;. . . And whoever does not judge by what Allaah has revealed, such are the kaafiroon.&#8221; [aayah 44]; &#8220;. . . And whoever does not judge by that which Allaah has revealed, such are the zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers)&#8221; [aayah 45]; &#8220;. . . And whoever does not judge by what Allaah has revealed (then) such (people) are the faasiqoon (rebellious or disobedient).&#8221; [aayah 47].

The statement that it is obligatory for the Muslims to judge according to what Allaah has revealed, even if those who seek their judgement are not Muslim, as Allaah says: &#8220;. . . And if you judge, judge with justice between them. . .&#8221; [aayah 42]


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## Mr.Fitnah

To suggest it is  somehow narrow minded  and hateful to object to an ideology that  from its founding documents, makes it clear that intimidation,  through violence  and threats and  killing me to bring me and my family under Islamic rule, is not only appropriate, but is the highest example of piety, is pathetic and ludacris .
You should stop.


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## Neser Boha

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Islam defines itself , believers and disbelievers clearly  and concisely .
> I see no benefit to honesty  or mankind to ignore what the scripture says .
> 
> 33:36.
> It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allâh and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allâh and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in a plain error.
> 
> Islam Question and Answer - Judging by that which Allaah has revealed
> Islam Question and Answer - Should he turn to the human rights organizations to get his rights?
> Islam Question and Answer - The kufr of one who rules according to other than what Allaah revealed
> 
> Allaah has commanded us to refer matters to His judgement and to establish Shareeah, and He has forbidden us to rule with anything else, as is clear from a number of aayaat in the Quraan, such as the aayaat in Soorat al-Maaidah (5) which discuss ruling according to what Allaah has revealed, and mention the following topics:
> 
> The command to rule according to what Allaah has revealed: And so judge between them by what Allaah has revealed . . . [aayah 49]
> 
> Warning against ruling by other than what Allaah has revealed: . . . and follow not their vain desires . . . [aayah 49]
> 
> Warning against compromising on any detail of Shareeah, no matter how small: . . . but beware of them lest they turn you far away from some of that which Allaah has sent down to you . . . [aayah 49]
> 
> Forbidding seeking the ruling of jaahiliyyah, as is expressed in the rhetorical question Do they then seek the judgement of (the Days of) Ignorance? [aayah 50]
> 
> The statement that nobody is better than Allaah to judge: . . . and who is better in judgement than Allaah for a people who have firm Faith? [aayah 50]
> 
> The statement that whoever does not judge according to what Allaah revealed is a kaafir, a zaalim (oppressor or wrongdoer) and a faasiq (sinner), as Allaah says: . . . And whoever does not judge by what Allaah has revealed, such are the kaafiroon. [aayah 44]; . . . And whoever does not judge by that which Allaah has revealed, such are the zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers) [aayah 45]; . . . And whoever does not judge by what Allaah has revealed (then) such (people) are the faasiqoon (rebellious or disobedient). [aayah 47].
> 
> The statement that it is obligatory for the Muslims to judge according to what Allaah has revealed, even if those who seek their judgement are not Muslim, as Allaah says: . . . And if you judge, judge with justice between them. . . [aayah 42]




Dude, people can go on for hours citing weird shit from the Bible, the Torah, or what the fuck have you...  Do you think you're being original and doing something/saying something I haven't read somewhere else before?  I got some news for you, sweets, you're just furthering the same useless muck over and over again and guess what - it's not making an ounce of difference.  People like you simply don't want to acknowledge reality because - for some reason - they keep seeing the world in strictly black vs. white terms - unable to distinguish the innumerable shades of motherfucking gray.  

Do you really think you're doing something good?  What is it?  "Educating the ignorant masses?"  

I'm sure you're aware of the ancient saying: Divide and rule.  That's is aimed at leaders only.  For you, it's 'divide and be ruled'.  That's what you're doing - you're doing yourself and others a disservice.  A gross disservice. Can you imagine a Muslim reading all this hateful crap that you spew?  Can you imagine his/her reaction?  It's going to make them even more separated from the society - alienated - and might make them gravitate more towards Islam, etc.  You're a cog in this self-perpetuating machine.  I want to see people as individuals, not parts of a group - they may be a part of it, but it DOESN'T define them and they - at each and every step - have a choice.

Anyway, I'm sick of this stupid hateful shit.

Here's a book you should read - Amartya Sen's _Identity and Violence_. It will really open your eyes, unless they're permanently seared shut by hatred.


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## Mr.Fitnah

Blah blah blah, Im causing Islamic jihad terrorism, blah blah blah.
Grow up hippy.


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## mystic

Mr.Fitnah said:


> mystic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UK is doing nothing to preserve its heritage.
> If atheist don't like church bells, they are really going to hate being beheaded.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ahem* Mr. Fitnah, I think the parallel between church bells _would_ be the call to prayer. But hey, what do I know?
> 
> Being beheaded would more equivalent to the Christian tradition of burning at the stake.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no Christian scripture that sanctifies burning at the stake ,
> Beheading in Islam?  a piece written by a friend who I had just spoken to on phone and correspond with FrontPage Magazine - The Sacred Muslim Practice of Beheading
Click to expand...


Well, as soon as I saw your source had "jihad watch" as one of it's tabs, I was rather suspicious.  But I went ahead and read it anyway. Just for you.
You know, it says, "Such gruesome acts are in fact sanctioned by core Islamic sacred texts"....but it doesn't give us anywhere in the Quran where it recommends beheading.
And as far as the burning at the stake...The Bible says: "Thou shall not suffer a witch to live" And we all know the only way to kill a witch is to burn her. I mean, you can't drown the suckers. That's why drowning was their test for witchiness. If she floats: She's a witch. If she drowns: She's innocent.


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## Mr.Fitnah

mystic said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mystic said:
> 
> 
> 
> *ahem* Mr. Fitnah, I think the parallel between church bells _would_ be the call to prayer. But hey, what do I know?
> 
> Being beheaded would more equivalent to the Christian tradition of burning at the stake.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no Christian scripture that sanctifies burning at the stake ,
> Beheading in Islam?  a piece written by a friend who I had just spoken to on phone and correspond with FrontPage Magazine - The Sacred Muslim Practice of Beheading
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, as soon as I saw your source had "jihad watch" as one of it's tabs, I was rather suspicious.  But I went ahead and read it anyway. Just for you.
> You know, it says, "Such gruesome acts are in fact sanctioned by core Islamic sacred texts"....but it doesn't give us anywhere in the Quran where it recommends beheading.
Click to expand...

paragraph 4


> And as far as the burning at the stake...The Bible says: "Thou shall not suffer a witch to live" And we all know the only way to kill a witch is to burn her. I mean, you can't drown the suckers. That's why drowning was their test for witchiness. If she floats: She's a witch. If she drowns: She's innocent.


Christians  are not bound by old Leviticus laws .


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## mystic

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Blah blah blah, Im causing Islamic jihad terrorism, blah blah blah.
> Grow up hippy.



What. You got something against hippies?


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## Intense

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no Christian scripture that sanctifies burning at the stake ,
> 
> 
> 
> Must I school you in your own religion as well, Fitnuts?
> 
> _If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. *Both he and they must be burned in the fire*, so that no wickedness will be among you._ - Leviticus 20:14
> 
> _If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; *she must be burned in the fire.*_ - Leviticus 21:9
> 
> _"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, *and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.*"_ - Jesus (AS), according to John 15:6​
> You're somewhat right, though; stoning seems to be a more appropriate punishment from a Biblical standpoint:
> 
> _*anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. *Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death._ - Leviticus 24:16
> 
> _While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was discovered gathering wood on the Sabbath day. Those who caught him at it brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly. But they kept him in custody, for there was no clear decision as to what should be done with him. Then the Lord said to Moses, *"This man shall be put to death; let the whole community stone him outside the camp." So the whole community led him outside the camp and stoned him to death as the Lord had commanded Moses.*_ - Numbers 15:32-26
> 
> _If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of the town. They shall say to the elders, 'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard.' *Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death.*.._ - Deut. 21:18-21
> 
> _If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there *the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. *You must purge the evil from among you._ - Deut. 22:20-21
> 
> _If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of the city, *and ye shall stone them with stones that they die*; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you._ - Deut. 22:23-24
> 
> _If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the LORD gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God in violation of his covenant, and contrary to my command* has worshiped other gods*, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars of the sky, and this has been brought to your attention, then you must investigate it thoroughly. If it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and *stone that person to death.*_ - Deut. 17:2-5​
Click to expand...


You might want to school yourself first. Show me where any of these practices are being followed today? Can you even distinguish between Judaism and Christianity?


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## Neser Boha

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Blah blah blah, Im causing Islamic jihad terrorism, blah blah blah.
> Grow up hippy.



Now that was a prime example of an intelligent counter-argument.


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## Mr.Fitnah

mystic said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah, Im causing Islamic jihad terrorism, blah blah blah.
> Grow up hippy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What. You got something against hippies?
Click to expand...


I used to be one.
I grew up .
I recognize the tradition of  the constitution  and consider  them worth defending and passing down to protect the rights of others.
HE CONSTITUTION IS NOT A SUICIDE PACT
Jefferson's Formulation
Jefferson offered one of the earliest formulations of the sentiment, although not of the phrase. In 1803, Thomas Jefferson's ambassadors to France arranged the purchase of the Louisiana territory in conflict with Jefferson's personal belief that the Constitution did not bestow upon the federal government the right to acquire or possess foreign territory.

 Due to political considerations, however, Jefferson disregarded his constitutional doubts, signed the proposed treaty, and sent it to the Senate for ratification. In justifying his actions, he later wrote: "[a] strict observance of the written law is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to the written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the ends to the means."


The Words Of Samuel Adams:

"The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a  fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence.

 It will bring an ever lasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men."


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## GHook93

ozzmdj said:


> Britain, birthplace of parliamentary democracy, has fallen to Islam.  Oxford, once home to the likes of C.S. Lewis, now houses a giant Eastern Islamic Studies Center.  If this were the only Islamic addition to Oxford, the mood would be less somber, but when Oxford citizens are forced to awake every morning to the Muslim call to prayer with the full consent of the Church of England, nothing short of conquest has taken place.....American Thinker- Print Article
> 
> Cut and Run is the only option



58 mil to 2 mil, it will be a long time before the Brits, like the Americans 306 mil to 4-6 mil, get overrun by Muslims!

Russia has more a chance of falling to radical Islam, then Britian! Russia current has 142 mill population and shrinking. 25% of the country is Muslim. That is 35 mil Muslims strong. But that is not the whole story. The Russian population is decreasing! For even 14.6 deaths there are 12.1 births. Meaning the deaths outdue the births. In '00 the Russian population was 147 mil, in '02 it was 145 mil and in '08 it 142 mil. However, while the "White Slavic" Russians are not having babies and flocking to abortion clinics, the Muslim Russians are reproducing like rabbits. If it wasn't for the Muslim Russians than that death to birth rate ratio would have been much worse.

Things for Russia are going to get much worse! The Russian economy is based on oil and natural gas. The electric cars are coming meaning Oil is going down. After the natural gas squeeze move last winter, Europe has been moving away from natural gas. Over the next decade the life blood of the Russian economy is going to be worth pennies when they need it to be dollars! Poor economies in Western countries (which for the conversation I am including them) reduces birth rates 10 fold!

If the Thrends keep up by 2020 the total Russian population could be 130 mil, yet the Muslim population could grow another 5 mil to 40 mil. Still only 31%!


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## Neser Boha

Mr.Fitnah said:


> mystic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah, Im causing Islamic jihad terrorism, blah blah blah.
> Grow up hippy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What. You got something against hippies?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I used to be one.
> I grew up .
> I recognize the tradition of  the constitution  and consider  them worth defending and passing down to protect the rights of others.
> HE CONSTITUTION IS NOT A SUICIDE PACT
> Jefferson's Formulation
> Jefferson offered one of the earliest formulations of the sentiment, although not of the phrase. In 1803, Thomas Jefferson's ambassadors to France arranged the purchase of the Louisiana territory in conflict with Jefferson's personal belief that the Constitution did not bestow upon the federal government the right to acquire or possess foreign territory.
> 
> Due to political considerations, however, Jefferson disregarded his constitutional doubts, signed the proposed treaty, and sent it to the Senate for ratification. In justifying his actions, he later wrote: "[a] strict observance of the written law is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to the written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the ends to the means."
> 
> 
> The Words Of Samuel Adams:
> 
> "The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a  fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence.
> 
> It will bring an ever lasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men."
Click to expand...


You remind me of a talking parakeet.  Why don't you copy and paste some more shit and pose it as your opinion.  I noticed that's pretty much all you do.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Neser Boha said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah, Im causing Islamic jihad terrorism, blah blah blah.
> Grow up hippy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now that was a prime example of an intelligent counter-argument.
Click to expand...

That was done prior to your posting manifesto of ignorance and surrender. Islam is not the victim, I am.  I have the right to  object to hateful ideologies of genocide


----------



## mystic

Mr.Fitnah said:


> mystic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah, Im causing Islamic jihad terrorism, blah blah blah.
> Grow up hippy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What. You got something against hippies?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I used to be one.
> I grew up .
> I recognize the tradition of  the constitution  and consider  them worth defending and passing down to protect the rights of others.
> HE CONSTITUTION IS NOT A SUICIDE PACT
> Jefferson's Formulation
> Jefferson offered one of the earliest formulations of the sentiment, although not of the phrase. In 1803, Thomas Jefferson's ambassadors to France arranged the purchase of the Louisiana territory in conflict with Jefferson's personal belief that the Constitution did not bestow upon the federal government the right to acquire or possess foreign territory.
> 
> Due to political considerations, however, Jefferson disregarded his constitutional doubts, signed the proposed treaty, and sent it to the Senate for ratification. In justifying his actions, he later wrote: "[a] strict observance of the written law is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to the written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the ends to the means."
> 
> 
> The Words Of Samuel Adams:
> 
> "The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a  fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence.
> 
> It will bring an ever lasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men."
Click to expand...


I am sooooo sorry to hear that you grew up.  What's it like? Nothing left to do but die then eh? 

All joking aside: The constitution _protects_ liberty. It doesn't say, "Well, if you fear this one religion then it's ok to ban it" I'm sorry, but you'd have to convince me that our liberty and freedom are at risk. Well, they are, but it's from men who step all over the constitution and crap on our civil liberties. Patriot Act? Isn't it funny how they name something patriotic that is the opposite of?  I'm sure you've read my sig. You think the founding fathers didn't know what they were talking about?


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Neser Boha said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mystic said:
> 
> 
> 
> What. You got something against hippies?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used to be one.
> I grew up .
> I recognize the tradition of  the constitution  and consider  them worth defending and passing down to protect the rights of others.
> HE CONSTITUTION IS NOT A SUICIDE PACT
> Jefferson's Formulation
> Jefferson offered one of the earliest formulations of the sentiment, although not of the phrase. In 1803, Thomas Jefferson's ambassadors to France arranged the purchase of the Louisiana territory in conflict with Jefferson's personal belief that the Constitution did not bestow upon the federal government the right to acquire or possess foreign territory.
> 
> Due to political considerations, however, Jefferson disregarded his constitutional doubts, signed the proposed treaty, and sent it to the Senate for ratification. In justifying his actions, he later wrote: "[a] strict observance of the written law is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to the written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the ends to the means."
> 
> 
> The Words Of Samuel Adams:
> 
> "The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a  fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence.
> 
> It will bring an ever lasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You remind me of a talking parakeet.  Why don't you copy and paste some more shit and pose it as your opinion.  I noticed that's pretty much all you do.
Click to expand...

Yes, I do that to  to reveal the frame work  on which support my opinions.
You should try it some time.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

mystic said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mystic said:
> 
> 
> 
> What. You got something against hippies?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used to be one.
> I grew up .
> I recognize the tradition of  the constitution  and consider  them worth defending and passing down to protect the rights of others.
> HE CONSTITUTION IS NOT A SUICIDE PACT
> Jefferson's Formulation
> Jefferson offered one of the earliest formulations of the sentiment, although not of the phrase. In 1803, Thomas Jefferson's ambassadors to France arranged the purchase of the Louisiana territory in conflict with Jefferson's personal belief that the Constitution did not bestow upon the federal government the right to acquire or possess foreign territory.
> 
> Due to political considerations, however, Jefferson disregarded his constitutional doubts, signed the proposed treaty, and sent it to the Senate for ratification. In justifying his actions, he later wrote: "[a] strict observance of the written law is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to the written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the ends to the means."
> 
> 
> The Words Of Samuel Adams:
> 
> "The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a  fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence.
> 
> It will bring an ever lasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am sooooo sorry to hear that you grew up.  What's it like? Nothing left to do but die then eh?
> 
> All joking aside: The constitution _protects_ liberty. It doesn't say, "Well, if you fear this one religion then it's ok to ban it" I'm sorry, but you'd have to convince me that our liberty and freedom are at risk.
Click to expand...

Well, I was doing that in another thread and you ran away .
What is the price of liberty?


----------



## GHook93

France: Total Population 63 mil (so-non-muslims make up 56.7 mil); Muslim population 6.3 mil (10%)

France's native white population is decreasing even years since death rates are greater than birth rates. While the Muslim population is exploding via enormous birth rates and via immigration, legal and illegal.


----------



## mystic

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Well, I was doing that in another thread and you ran away .
> What is the price of liberty?



Which thread? I don't recall running away. 

The price of liberty? I'll tell you the price of liberty. 

The price of liberty is in allowing difference of opinion. Which can be quite painful sometimes.

You think I want to hear what the Klan wants to say? Nope. Personally, I think they're evil. But I support their right to gather and make speeches. A right given to them by the constitution. You want to start outlawing things which you think are dangerous? That is a slippery slope.

You gotta take the good with the bad. That's the price of liberty.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

You may have gone as far as you had wished in the  thread , 
I was willing to explore the topic up to ,but not beyond  the point  where  all reason has been exhausted .
http://www.usmessageboard.com/reputation.php?p=1420526

Eternal Vigilance is the Price of Liberty, As I offered before 

THE CONSTITUTION IS NOT A SUICIDE PACT
Jefferson's Formulation
Jefferson offered one of the earliest formulations of the sentiment, although not of the phrase. In 1803, Thomas Jefferson's ambassadors to France arranged the purchase of the Louisiana territory in conflict with Jefferson's personal belief that the Constitution did not bestow upon the federal government the right to acquire or possess foreign territory. Due to political considerations, however, 

Jefferson disregarded his constitutional doubts, signed the proposed treaty, and sent it to the Senate for ratification. In justifying his actions, he later wrote: "[a] strict observance of the written law is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. 
*
The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation.* 
*To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to the written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the ends to the means."*


----------



## Kalam

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Christians  are not bound by old Leviticus laws .



Heresy!

_For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished.  Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven._ - Matthew 5:18-19

_ It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid._ - Luke 16:17

_Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets.  I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.  Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place._ - Matthew 5:17

_All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..._ - 2 Timothy 3:16

_Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God._ - 2 Peter 20-21​


----------



## mystic

Mr.Fitnah said:


> You may have gone as far as you had wished in the  thread ,
> I was willing to explore the topic up to ,but not beyond  the point  where  all reason has been exhausted .
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/reputation.php?p=1420526



Your link is funky. It just takes me to a message page that says, "This post has not received any reputation. You currently have 178 reputation point(s)."


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Christians  are not bound by old Leviticus laws .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heresy!
> 
> _For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until *all is accomplished.*  Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven._ - Matthew 5:18-19
> 
> _ It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid._ - Luke 16:17
> 
> _Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets.  I have come not to abolish* but to fulfill*.  Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place._ - Matthew 5:17
> 
> _All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..._ - 2 Timothy 3:16
> 
> _Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God._ - 2 Peter 20-21​
Click to expand...

The last word of Christ?


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

mystic said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> You may have gone as far as you had wished in the  thread ,
> I was willing to explore the topic up to ,but not beyond  the point  where  all reason has been exhausted .
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/reputation.php?p=1420526
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your link is funky. It just takes me to a message page that says, "This post has not received any reputation. You currently have 178 reputation point(s)."
Click to expand...

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1420526-post537.html

Sorry.


----------



## Soggy in NOLA

Islam.  Dirtbag religion if there ever was one.


----------



## Neser Boha

GHook93 said:


> France: Total Population 63 mil (so-non-muslims make up 56.7 mil); Muslim population 6.3 mil (10%)
> 
> France's native white population is decreasing even years since death rates are greater than birth rates. While the Muslim population is exploding via enormous birth rates and via immigration, legal and illegal.



Well!  Good for France that they have all the Muslim immigrants - that means their economy won't go under for lack of workforce/taxpayers unlike other European countries that seem to be going towards that trend (such as Czech Republic, etc.)  Many European countries tried to boost their population (by various - many times hilarious - means) so this is basically an answered prayer for them 

So glad to hear success stories like that...  Thank you GHook... and I thought you were such a hateful little slug... I apologize a thousand times for thinking that.


----------



## Kalam

Intense said:


> You might want to school yourself first. Show me where any of these practices are being followed today? Can you even distinguish between Judaism and Christianity?



My intention isn't to bash Christianity in general; it's to do to Fitnah's scripture exactly what he tries to do to mine.


----------



## Kalam

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Christians  are not bound by old Leviticus laws .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heresy!
> 
> _For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until *all is accomplished.*  Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven._ - Matthew 5:18-19
> 
> _ It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid._ - Luke 16:17
> 
> _Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets.  I have come not to abolish* but to fulfill*.  Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place._ - Matthew 5:17
> 
> _All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..._ - 2 Timothy 3:16
> 
> _Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God._ - 2 Peter 20-21​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The last word of Christ?
Click to expand...


Sorry; an account of the crucifixion does not nullify the commandments of Christ or the Word of God.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Neser Boha said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> 
> France: Total Population 63 mil (so-non-muslims make up 56.7 mil); Muslim population 6.3 mil (10%)
> 
> France's native white population is decreasing even years since death rates are greater than birth rates. While the Muslim population is exploding via enormous birth rates and via immigration, legal and illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well!  Good for France that they have all the Muslim immigrants - that means their economy won't go under for lack of workforce/taxpayers unlike other European countries that seem to be going towards that trend (such as Czech Republic, etc.)  Many European countries tried to boost their population (by various - many times hilarious - means) so this is basically an answered prayer for them
> 
> So glad to hear success stories like that...  Thank you GHook... and I thought you were such a hateful little slug... I apologize a thousand times for thinking that.
Click to expand...








Yeah,  thats great  cause all ideologies are equal.


----------



## Neser Boha

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Neser Boha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> 
> France: Total Population 63 mil (so-non-muslims make up 56.7 mil); Muslim population 6.3 mil (10%)
> 
> France's native white population is decreasing even years since death rates are greater than birth rates. While the Muslim population is exploding via enormous birth rates and via immigration, legal and illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well!  Good for France that they have all the Muslim immigrants - that means their economy won't go under for lack of workforce/taxpayers unlike other European countries that seem to be going towards that trend (such as Czech Republic, etc.)  Many European countries tried to boost their population (by various - many times hilarious - means) so this is basically an answered prayer for them
> 
> So glad to hear success stories like that...  Thank you GHook... and I thought you were such a hateful little slug... I apologize a thousand times for thinking that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah,  thats great  cause all ideologies are equal.
Click to expand...


Do you have a point?


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heresy!
> 
> _For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until *all is accomplished.*  Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven._ - Matthew 5:18-19
> 
> _ It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid._ - Luke 16:17
> 
> _Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets.  I have come not to abolish* but to fulfill*.  Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place._ - Matthew 5:17
> 
> _All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..._ - 2 Timothy 3:16
> 
> _Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God._ - 2 Peter 20-21​
> 
> 
> 
> The last word of Christ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry; an account of the crucifixion does not nullify the commandments of Christ or the Word of God.
Click to expand...

These are the commandments of Christ.

"You shall love the Lord your God with your whole heart, with your whole soul, and with all your mind, (and) you shall love your neighbor as yourself."


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Neser Boha said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neser Boha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well!  Good for France that they have all the Muslim immigrants - that means their economy won't go under for lack of workforce/taxpayers unlike other European countries that seem to be going towards that trend (such as Czech Republic, etc.)  Many European countries tried to boost their population (by various - many times hilarious - means) so this is basically an answered prayer for them
> 
> So glad to hear success stories like that...  Thank you GHook... and I thought you were such a hateful little slug... I apologize a thousand times for thinking that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah,  thats great  cause all ideologies are equal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have a point?
Click to expand...

Sure not that you care 
Perfectly Human's Subterranean Circus - What Islam is Not.


----------



## Kalam

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last word of Christ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry; an account of the crucifixion does not nullify the commandments of Christ or the Word of God.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These are the commandments of Christ.
> 
> "You shall love the Lord your God with your whole heart, with your whole soul, and with all your mind, (and) you shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Click to expand...


Yeah, in addition to these:
_For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven._ - Matthew 5:18-19

_It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid. _- Luke 16:17

_Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place._ - Matthew 5:17​
All written in red letters, cousin.


----------



## Neser Boha

Mr.Fitnah said:


> To suggest it is  somehow narrow minded  and hateful to object to an ideology that  from its founding documents, makes it clear that intimidation,  through violence  and threats and  killing me to bring me and my family under Islamic rule, is not only appropriate, but is the highest example of piety, is pathetic and ludacris .
> You should stop.



It's ok to object to an ideology that seems dangerous to you and you feel threatened by.  The problem is that what you object to is only the part of Islam and its scripture that not every Muslim subscribes to (actually, only a minority does).  The mistake you're making is not distinguishing among the entire religion and just a certain part of it that you actually disagree with and that you don't take into account all the Muslims that do not agree with that ideology that you are fighting against.  By extension of that - you're attacking all Muslims indiscriminately, which is actually counterproductive to your own cause.  And that is what I have an issue with.

As a matter of fact, there are Muslims out there that object as loudly - if not louder - against atrocities committed in the name of Islam.  You might find it worthy to look into.

PS: Ludacris is a rapper, ludicrous is the word you're looking for.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Neser Boha said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> To suggest it is  somehow narrow minded  and hateful to object to an ideology that  from its founding documents, makes it clear that intimidation,  through violence  and threats and  killing me to bring me and my family under Islamic rule, is not only appropriate, but is the highest example of piety, is pathetic and ludacris .
> You should stop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's ok to object to an ideology that seems dangerous to you and you feel threatened by.  The problem is that what you object to is only the part of Islam and its scripture that not every Muslim subscribes to (actually, only a minority does).  The mistake you're making is not distinguishing among the entire religion and just a certain part of it that you actually disagree with and that you don't take into account all the Muslims that do not agree with that ideology that you are fighting against.  By extension of that - you're attacking all Muslims indiscriminately, which is actually counterproductive to your own cause.  And that is what I have an issue with.
> 
> As a matter of fact, there are Muslims out there that object as loudly - if not louder - against atrocities committed in the name of Islam.  You might find it worthy to look into.
> 
> PS: Ludacris is a rapper, ludicrous is the word you're looking for.
Click to expand...

I object to the part of Islam that concerns me,  the other parts of Islam I aware of but do not concern myself with .
Your "if you keep talking about Islam  and jihad muslims will get angry  and kill some one " is a path of submission  that I choose  not to take,  and it does not alter Islams supremacy  goal .

I am not like you I do not doubt  them  when they call themselves a believer ,
I know what the scripture calls for .
I believe they have integrity .
You project your lack of integrity on to them.
You do not know that muslims do not subscribe to the parts of Islamic scripture I object to. Muslims are not idiots  any pool  they take will  be skewed as they know the poll results would reflect poorly on  the islamic community.
That some muslims  do not kill is not necessarily do to not believing it may have to do with tactics.


----------



## Intense

mystic said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I was doing that in another thread and you ran away .
> What is the price of liberty?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which thread? I don't recall running away.
> 
> The price of liberty? I'll tell you the price of liberty.
> 
> The price of liberty is in allowing difference of opinion. Which can be quite painful sometimes.
> 
> You think I want to hear what the Klan wants to say? Nope. Personally, I think they're evil. But I support their right to gather and make speeches. A right given to them by the constitution. You want to start outlawing things which you think are dangerous? That is a slippery slope.
> 
> You gotta take the good with the bad. That's the price of liberty.
Click to expand...


I think that you got off on the wrong floor. The end result of your scenario is Jail, enslavement, and death, by giving those power over you, through their exercise of Religion. You hurt yourself and those around you by your denial, by your blindness; nor are you Justified by manipulation of Constitutional Principle.  There is no place for Sharia Law in the USA.


----------



## GHook93

First, I guess you haven't heard about the Muslim unrest in France. The problems of unemployment in France. Or the huge problems in the Muslim ghettos.
Second, there is nothing wrong with Muslim or Arab immigrants. In America, Arabs (almost the majority are Christians) are some of the most productive Americans.
Third, I know how if must have come off, but I wasn't trying to make it seem like France or Russia were going to be Islamic, rather that they are more likely to have a Muslim majority before Britian!



Neser Boha said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> 
> France: Total Population 63 mil (so-non-muslims make up 56.7 mil); Muslim population 6.3 mil (10%)
> 
> France's native white population is decreasing even years since death rates are greater than birth rates. While the Muslim population is exploding via enormous birth rates and via immigration, legal and illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well!  Good for France that they have all the Muslim immigrants - that means their economy won't go under for lack of workforce/taxpayers unlike other European countries that seem to be going towards that trend (such as Czech Republic, etc.)  Many European countries tried to boost their population (by various - many times hilarious - means) so this is basically an answered prayer for them
> 
> So glad to hear success stories like that...  Thank you GHook... and I thought you were such a hateful little slug... I apologize a thousand times for thinking that.
Click to expand...


----------



## Neser Boha

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Neser Boha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> To suggest it is  somehow narrow minded  and hateful to object to an ideology that  from its founding documents, makes it clear that intimidation,  through violence  and threats and  killing me to bring me and my family under Islamic rule, is not only appropriate, but is the highest example of piety, is pathetic and ludacris .
> You should stop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's ok to object to an ideology that seems dangerous to you and you feel threatened by.  The problem is that what you object to is only the part of Islam and its scripture that not every Muslim subscribes to (actually, only a minority does).  The mistake you're making is not distinguishing among the entire religion and just a certain part of it that you actually disagree with and that you don't take into account all the Muslims that do not agree with that ideology that you are fighting against.  By extension of that - you're attacking all Muslims indiscriminately, which is actually counterproductive to your own cause.  And that is what I have an issue with.
> 
> As a matter of fact, there are Muslims out there that object as loudly - if not louder - against atrocities committed in the name of Islam.  You might find it worthy to look into.
> 
> PS: Ludacris is a rapper, ludicrous is the word you're looking for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I object to the part of Islam that concerns me,  the other parts of Islam I aware of but do not concern myself with .
> Your "if you keep talking about Islam  and jihad muslims will get angry  and kill some one " is a path of submission  that I choose  not to take,  and it does not alter Islams supremacy  goal .
> 
> I am not like you I do not doubt  them  when they call themselves a believer ,
> I know what the scripture calls for .
> I believe they have integrity .
> You project your lack of integrity on to them.
> You do not know that muslims do not subscribe to the parts of Islamic scripture I object to. Muslims are not idiots  any pool  they take will  be skewed as they know the poll results would reflect poorly on  the islamic community.
> That some muslims  do not kill is not necessarily do to not believing it may have to do with tactics.
Click to expand...


Now, that didn't make much sense at all.

Could you clear it up for me?

Thx.


----------



## Fatality

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry; an account of the crucifixion does not nullify the commandments of Christ or the Word of God&#8482;.
> 
> 
> 
> These are the commandments of Christ.
> 
> "You shall love the Lord your God with your whole heart, with your whole soul, and with all your mind, (and) you shall love your neighbor as yourself."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, in addition to these:
> _For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven._ - Matthew 5:18-19
> 
> _It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid. _- Luke 16:17
> 
> _Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place._ - Matthew 5:17​
> All written in red letters, cousin.
Click to expand...


those quotes are all true. Although it seems you hold a pharasaical interpretation to the law, as did the other of the enemies of Jesus, so youre not doing anything new. 

lets see how Jesus applied them.

John 8

But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. 

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. 

At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"  "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." The Pharisees challenged him, "Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid." 

Jesus answered, "Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me." Then they asked him, "Where is your father?"  "You do not know me or my Father," Jesus replied. "If you knew me, you would know my Father also."

clearly jesus and the pharisees had a different interpretation of the law, Jesus offered forgiveness, love, and the promise of new life. the pharisees offered a stoning and certian death; no forgivness, no new life, no love.


----------



## Sunni Man

Mr.Fitnah said:


> You do not know that muslims do not subscribe to the parts of Islamic scripture I object to


Does anybody know what Mr. Fitnuts said??


----------



## mystic

Intense said:


> I think that you got off on the wrong floor. The end result of your scenario is Jail, enslavement, and death, by giving those power over you, through their exercise of Religion. You hurt yourself and those around you by your denial, by your blindness; nor are you Justified by manipulation of Constitutional Principle.  There is no place for Sharia Law in the USA.



Soooo...I guess you're against freedom then? There's plenty of countries that I can point you in the direction of if you've got a problem with freedom of speech and separation of church and state. You want to make the US look like _your_ version of Sharia.

No thanks.


----------



## The_Halfmoon

look, whether or not you guys feel Islam is properly represented, consider the policies and actions of those governments that CLAIM to be muslim (now I'm not going to argue that these are true muslim principles as I have already been corrected and will make the distinction)

Whatever that is, whatever you want to call it if not Islam... NEEDS TO END

and the incorporation of THAT type of life... with Burqas and Sharia law for divorce, etc.  IS NOT SOMETHING THAT MESHES WITH WESTERN IDEALS OR TRADITIONS

The fact is that muslim governments stone people to death, they amputate, they behead, they torture, and they rape in the name of Islam.  They may be wrong in doing so. But THAT needs to end and THAT is what people see as the face of Islam.

I rarely see peaceful, genuine Islam represented today, which makes me believe that the future of Islam is not towards peace but towards extremism


----------



## Bootneck

Soggy in NOLA said:


> Islam.  Dirtbag religion if there ever was one.



Wow! You obviously put a lot of effort into your posts. Must have taken you ages to compose that! Can't wait to see your next brilliant contribution.


----------



## Sunni Man

The_Halfmoon said:


> and the incorporation of THAT type of life... with Burqas and Sharia law for divorce, etc.  IS NOT SOMETHING THAT MESHES WITH WESTERN IDEALS OR TRADITIONS



The west will just have to change.

Because muslims will continue to dress and act as muslims reguardless of past traditions or ideals.


----------



## mystic

Mr.Fitnah said:


> http://www.usmessageboard.com/1420526-post537.html
> 
> Sorry.



I'm not sure how I "ran away" from that.  I thanked you for hearing me out and that was that, I thought. Is there a particular post that you would like me to address? You can PM me. By the end of that conversation I had certainly come to the realization that for what ever reason, you have a fixed mind when it comes to Islam. I can understand and respect that: I have a fixed mind when it comes to a lot of things.  So I really don't think that there is anything I could say on the subject that would make you change your mind.
And if you were thinking to make me change _my_ mind....well then that's just as much of a problem.


----------



## mystic

Fatality said:


> those quotes are all true. Although it seems you hold a pharasaical interpretation to the law, as did the other of the enemies of Jesus, so youre not doing anything new.
> ......



You've heard it from the horse's mouth, folks! Kalam is the enemy of Jesus!


----------



## Intense

mystic said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think that you got off on the wrong floor. The end result of your scenario is Jail, enslavement, and death, by giving those power over you, through their exercise of Religion. You hurt yourself and those around you by your denial, by your blindness; nor are you Justified by manipulation of Constitutional Principle.  There is no place for Sharia Law in the USA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo...I guess you're against freedom then? There's plenty of countries that I can point you in the direction of if you've got a problem with freedom of speech and separation of church and state. You want to make the US look like _your_ version of Sharia.
> 
> No thanks.
Click to expand...


I'm against your inability to comprehend what you read.  I fully support Individual Liberty and Government by the consent of the Governed.  I Believe in Inalienable Right and Separation of Church and State.  Civil Law Governs the State and Sharia Law has no place there.  I do not want the USA to look like any version of Sharia Law. Why do you get that impression?


----------



## Fatality

Sunni Man said:


> The_Halfmoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> and the incorporation of THAT type of life... with Burqas and Sharia law for divorce, etc.  IS NOT SOMETHING THAT MESHES WITH WESTERN IDEALS OR TRADITIONS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The west will just have to change.
> 
> Because muslims will continue to dress and act as muslims reguardless of past traditions or ideals.
Click to expand...


bullshit, we are not changing to please you. learn to behave like civilsed people instead of 7th century barbarians


----------



## Sunni Man

Fatality said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The_Halfmoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> and the incorporation of THAT type of life... with Burqas and Sharia law for divorce, etc.  IS NOT SOMETHING THAT MESHES WITH WESTERN IDEALS OR TRADITIONS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The west will just have to change.
> 
> Because muslims will continue to dress and act as muslims reguardless of past traditions or ideals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> bullshit, we are not changing to please you. learn to behave like *civilsed *people instead of 7th century barbarians
Click to expand...

Learn to spell first and maybe people will listen to you


----------



## Kalam

Fatality said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are the commandments of Christ.
> 
> "You shall love the Lord your God with your whole heart, with your whole soul, and with all your mind, (and) you shall love your neighbor as yourself."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, in addition to these:
> _For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven._ - Matthew 5:18-19
> 
> _It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid. _- Luke 16:17
> 
> _Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place._ - Matthew 5:17​
> All written in red letters, cousin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> those quotes are all true. Although it seems you hold a pharasaical interpretation to the law, as did the other of the enemies of Jesus, so youre not doing anything new.
> 
> lets see how Jesus applied them.
Click to expand...

So did Jesus contradict himself, or was John's account inaccurate?


----------



## The_Halfmoon

Even I can fully admit Jesus specifically pointed to the law, and did not reverse the old testament (though he streamlined some of it)

but seriously now, I rather go to hell than stone someone to death


----------



## The_Halfmoon

Sunni Man said:


> The_Halfmoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> and the incorporation of THAT type of life... with Burqas and Sharia law for divorce, etc.  IS NOT SOMETHING THAT MESHES WITH WESTERN IDEALS OR TRADITIONS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The west will just have to change.
> 
> Because muslims will continue to dress and act as muslims reguardless of past traditions or ideals.
Click to expand...


why come to the west then? let us fuck our mothers and marry horses until god brings his punishment while you chill to Cat Stevens in Abu Dhabi


----------



## Sunni Man

The_Halfmoon said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The_Halfmoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> and the incorporation of THAT type of life... with Burqas and Sharia law for divorce, etc.  IS NOT SOMETHING THAT MESHES WITH WESTERN IDEALS OR TRADITIONS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The west will just have to change.
> 
> Because muslims will continue to dress and act as muslims reguardless of past traditions or ideals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> why come to the west then? let us fuck our mothers and marry horses until god brings his punishment while you chill to Cat Stevens in Abu Dhabi
Click to expand...

I was born here and so were my great, great, great, great, great, grandparents.

I am a convert to Islam and very happy to have left christianity.


----------



## The_Halfmoon

Sunni Man said:


> The_Halfmoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> The west will just have to change.
> 
> Because muslims will continue to dress and act as muslims reguardless of past traditions or ideals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> why come to the west then? let us fuck our mothers and marry horses until god brings his punishment while you chill to Cat Stevens in Abu Dhabi
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was born here and so were my great, great, great, great, great, grandparents.
> 
> I am a convert to Islam and very happy to have left christianity.
Click to expand...


well then why not MOVE to the middle east? it's a very wealthy area, the food is good, the people are nice, and most importantly they encourage your religion

Why should the West change its liberal traditions to appease someone who would be equally content living in the mecca of their culture... hell, LITERALLY living near mecca


----------



## Intense

I just can't get past the concept of people owning people.  Equality in Justice is another factor.  Equal Protection without Partiality.  The concept from John Locke, Inalienable Rights, which include the awareness that there are matters between each individual and Our Maker that come before Our Obligation to Church, Society, and Government, and are untouchable.  That Conscience is untouchable.


----------



## Sunni Man

The_Halfmoon said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The_Halfmoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> why come to the west then? let us fuck our mothers and marry horses until god brings his punishment while you chill to Cat Stevens in Abu Dhabi
> 
> 
> 
> I was born here and so were my great, great, great, great, great, grandparents.
> 
> I am a convert to Islam and very happy to have left christianity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> well then why not MOVE to the middle east? it's a very wealthy area, the food is good, the people are nice, and most importantly they encourage your religion
> 
> Why should the West change its liberal traditions to appease someone who would be equally content living in the mecca of their culture... hell, LITERALLY living near mecca
Click to expand...

Here you are working and hoping to change Iran into some homo loving paradise that rejects Islam and hijib. But in other threads acknowledge that 99% of Iranians are happy with Iran being culturally Islamic and want to keep it that way.

Yet when I suggest that America will eventually have to adopt some Islamic standards in the future, due to more muslims in the population. You basically tell me to move.

Sounds like a double standard to me


----------



## Intense

Sunni Man said:


> The_Halfmoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was born here and so were my great, great, great, great, great, grandparents.
> 
> I am a convert to Islam and very happy to have left christianity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well then why not MOVE to the middle east? it's a very wealthy area, the food is good, the people are nice, and most importantly they encourage your religion
> 
> Why should the West change its liberal traditions to appease someone who would be equally content living in the mecca of their culture... hell, LITERALLY living near mecca
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here you are working and hoping to change Iran into some homo loving paradise that rejects Islam and hijib. But in other threads acknowledge that 99% of Iranians are happy with Iran being culturally Islamic and want to keep it that way.
> 
> Yet when I suggest that America will eventually have to adopt some Islamic standards in the future, due to more muslims in the population. You basically tell me to move.
> 
> Sounds like a double standard to me
Click to expand...


Best hope Iran ever had was the Shah.  Worst enemy to modernization, Jimmy Carter.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

mystic said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/1420526-post537.html
> 
> Sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how I "ran away" from that.  I thanked you for hearing me out and that was that, I thought. Is there a particular post that you would like me to address? You can PM me. By the end of that conversation I had certainly come to the realization that for what ever reason, you have a fixed mind when it comes to Islam. I can understand and respect that: I have a fixed mind when it comes to a lot of things.  So I really don't think that there is anything I could say on the subject that would make you change your mind.
> And if you were thinking to make me change _my_ mind....well then that's just as much of a problem.
Click to expand...

Sorry about the mischaracterization , feel free to rejoin the thread at your leisure.
You seem a reasonable person  who can disagree with out being to terribly disagreeable..


----------



## actsnoblemartin

you head is far buried up your pussy, you cant see rhime from reason

idiot



Neser Boha said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neser Boha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islam, my dear, is not a government - it can't have 'policies'.
> 
> 
> 
> Islam has policies  for law,justice , economics,  personal matters  and social interaction, it has policies for everything Islam and politics are inseparable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, in that case Christianity has policies on everything as well - yet how many people follow them all or even know of/agree with them all?  Do you know how many Muslims agree with/apply the Sharia law?  How many of them do you think agree with public stoning, etc?  You can't put them all in the same box - that's intellectually dishonest!  It's not only impossible, but also potentially dangerous.  There are millions upon millions on Muslims and I don't think they could all elect one person to speak for all of them - or even ten.  There are Muslims that love drinking alcohol, there are Muslims that don't wear head-garb, there are Muslims that party A LOT, there are Muslims that are mathematicians, scientists, cooks, drug-addicts, taxi-drivers, people with families whose main concern is to take care of those families... They are just like the rest of us.  One word, one concept, can't define us just as 'Islam' can't define all Muslims.
> 
> I wish you'd just stop this nonsense because it makes you look extremely narrow-minded and hateful.
Click to expand...


----------



## The_Halfmoon

Sunni Man said:


> The_Halfmoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was born here and so were my great, great, great, great, great, grandparents.
> 
> I am a convert to Islam and very happy to have left christianity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well then why not MOVE to the middle east? it's a very wealthy area, the food is good, the people are nice, and most importantly they encourage your religion
> 
> Why should the West change its liberal traditions to appease someone who would be equally content living in the mecca of their culture... hell, LITERALLY living near mecca
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here you are working and hoping to change Iran into some homo loving paradise that rejects Islam and hijib. But in other threads acknowledge that 99% of Iranians are happy with Iran being culturally Islamic and want to keep it that way.
> 
> Yet when I suggest that America will eventually have to adopt some Islamic standards in the future, due to more muslims in the population. You basically tell me to move.
> 
> Sounds like a double standard to me
Click to expand...


there is nothing wrong with Iran being culturally islamic... but not LEGALLY islamic.  If you don't like homos, fine, ban them from your home and tell your children to avoid them.  But don't ask the state to throw rocks at their half-burried bodies or execute rape VICTIMS who did not even consent to homosexuality... and don't enforce women to wear the hijab.. if they chose to, great.  But if not, let them wear what they please.  But I don't recall saying the second part anyway, not 99%... but I post a lot it seems so I can lose track.

And the west can't allow Sharia law into its legal system because it clearly violates the equality of men and women in the divorce process (assuming we're only talking about sharia tribunals for divorce and not the many other things that contradict western values)


----------



## The_Halfmoon

Intense said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The_Halfmoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> well then why not MOVE to the middle east? it's a very wealthy area, the food is good, the people are nice, and most importantly they encourage your religion
> 
> Why should the West change its liberal traditions to appease someone who would be equally content living in the mecca of their culture... hell, LITERALLY living near mecca
> 
> 
> 
> Here you are working and hoping to change Iran into some homo loving paradise that rejects Islam and hijib. But in other threads acknowledge that 99% of Iranians are happy with Iran being culturally Islamic and want to keep it that way.
> 
> Yet when I suggest that America will eventually have to adopt some Islamic standards in the future, due to more muslims in the population. You basically tell me to move.
> 
> Sounds like a double standard to me
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Best hope Iran ever had was the Shah.  Worst enemy to modernization, Jimmy Carter.
Click to expand...


You think Carter "opened the door" for Khomeini as it were? That's not something I've looked too much into, but it did seem clear that he thought he was a Gandhi-like figure. If so, how naive.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

The_Halfmoon said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The_Halfmoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> well then why not MOVE to the middle east? it's a very wealthy area, the food is good, the people are nice, and most importantly they encourage your religion
> 
> Why should the West change its liberal traditions to appease someone who would be equally content living in the mecca of their culture... hell, LITERALLY living near mecca
> 
> 
> 
> Here you are working and hoping to change Iran into some homo loving paradise that rejects Islam and hijib. But in other threads acknowledge that 99% of Iranians are happy with Iran being culturally Islamic and want to keep it that way.
> 
> Yet when I suggest that America will eventually have to adopt some Islamic standards in the future, due to more muslims in the population. You basically tell me to move.
> 
> Sounds like a double standard to me
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> there is nothing wrong with Iran being culturally islamic... but not LEGALLY islamic.  If you don't like homos, fine, ban them from your home and tell your children to avoid them.  But don't ask the state to throw rocks at their half-burried bodies or execute rape VICTIMS who did not even consent to homosexuality... and don't enforce women to wear the hijab.. if they chose to, great.  But if not, let them wear what they please.  But I don't recall saying the second part anyway, not 99%... but I post a lot it seems so I can lose track.
> 
> And the west can't allow Sharia law into its legal system because it clearly violates the equality of men and women in the divorce process (assuming we're only talking about sharia tribunals for divorce and not the many other things that contradict western values)
Click to expand...

The basic problem is values, In the west we have an unspoken agreement , we will not kill each other for the way we believe and the way we think or what we think,

 It falls apart sometimes but in general it works well enough and we get along by and large.
When you introduce an ideology that requires adherents to kill those who do not believe the way you do, the society  is headed for collapse  and destruction.


----------



## The_Halfmoon

Mr.Fitnah said:


> The_Halfmoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here you are working and hoping to change Iran into some homo loving paradise that rejects Islam and hijib. But in other threads acknowledge that 99% of Iranians are happy with Iran being culturally Islamic and want to keep it that way.
> 
> Yet when I suggest that America will eventually have to adopt some Islamic standards in the future, due to more muslims in the population. You basically tell me to move.
> 
> Sounds like a double standard to me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there is nothing wrong with Iran being culturally islamic... but not LEGALLY islamic.  If you don't like homos, fine, ban them from your home and tell your children to avoid them.  But don't ask the state to throw rocks at their half-burried bodies or execute rape VICTIMS who did not even consent to homosexuality... and don't enforce women to wear the hijab.. if they chose to, great.  But if not, let them wear what they please.  But I don't recall saying the second part anyway, not 99%... but I post a lot it seems so I can lose track.
> 
> And the west can't allow Sharia law into its legal system because it clearly violates the equality of men and women in the divorce process (assuming we're only talking about sharia tribunals for divorce and not the many other things that contradict western values)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The basic problem is values, In the west we have an unspoken agreement , we will not kill each other for the way we believe and the way we think or what we think,
> 
> It falls apart sometimes but in general it works well enough and we get along by and large.
> When you introduce an ideology that requires adherents to kill those who do not believe the way you do, the society  is headed for collapse  and destruction.
Click to expand...


exactly... I have no problem whatsoever with how or why someone prays... but if your religion requires you to force the government to abhor the freedom of others, too bad.  

If you beat your wife, it's the government's responsibility to protect the physical safety of its citizens... I don't care what your religion says.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

The_Halfmoon said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The_Halfmoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> there is nothing wrong with Iran being culturally islamic... but not LEGALLY islamic.  If you don't like homos, fine, ban them from your home and tell your children to avoid them.  But don't ask the state to throw rocks at their half-burried bodies or execute rape VICTIMS who did not even consent to homosexuality... and don't enforce women to wear the hijab.. if they chose to, great.  But if not, let them wear what they please.  But I don't recall saying the second part anyway, not 99%... but I post a lot it seems so I can lose track.
> 
> And the west can't allow Sharia law into its legal system because it clearly violates the equality of men and women in the divorce process (assuming we're only talking about sharia tribunals for divorce and not the many other things that contradict western values)
> 
> 
> 
> The basic problem is values, In the west we have an unspoken agreement , we will not kill each other for the way we believe and the way we think or what we think,
> 
> It falls apart sometimes but in general it works well enough and we get along by and large.
> When you introduce an ideology that requires adherents to kill those who do not believe the way you do, the society  is headed for collapse  and destruction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> exactly... I have no problem whatsoever with how or why someone prays... but if your religion requires you to force the government to abhor the freedom of others, too bad.
> 
> If you beat your wife, it's the government's responsibility to protect the physical safety of its citizens... I don't care what your religion says.
Click to expand...

Or  when the government  is so terrified on  the threat of violence  it squelches free speech.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/europe/86216-british-lion-muzzled.html


----------



## AVG-JOE

The_Halfmoon said:


> although it's crazy that western countries would even consider sharia law... I highly doubt Islam will take over in the next few generations... give it a few centuries maybe



If our children don't trade religious dogma and tradition for freedom of personal belief systems and begin reaching for the stars in a few centuries, they may never.

(Insert your preferred Deity here) bless our children.

-Joe


----------



## AVG-JOE

Sunni Man said:


> The_Halfmoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was born here and so were my great, great, great, great, great, grandparents.
> 
> I am a convert to Islam and very happy to have left christianity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well then why not MOVE to the middle east? it's a very wealthy area, the food is good, the people are nice, and most importantly they encourage your religion
> 
> Why should the West change its liberal traditions to appease someone who would be equally content living in the mecca of their culture... hell, LITERALLY living near mecca
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here you are working and hoping to change Iran into some homo loving paradise that rejects Islam and hijib. But in other threads acknowledge that 99% of Iranians are happy with Iran being culturally Islamic and want to keep it that way.
> 
> Yet when I suggest that America will eventually have to adopt some Islamic standards in the future, due to more muslims in the population. You basically tell me to move.
> 
> Sounds like a double standard to me
Click to expand...


Freedom has been tasted on this planet.  Not just the Western version of it, lots of cultures survived the European expansion that led to todays political boundaries.  The first population that can figure out a way to pass the resources of our world on to the next generation in peace might see their children reach the stars.

-Joe


----------



## Fatality

Kalam said:


> Fatality said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, in addition to these:
> _For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven._ - Matthew 5:18-19
> 
> _It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid. _- Luke 16:17
> 
> _Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place._ - Matthew 5:17​
> All written in red letters, cousin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> those quotes are all true. Although it seems you hold a pharasaical interpretation to the law, as did the other of the enemies of Jesus, so youre not doing anything new.
> 
> lets see how Jesus applied them.
> 
> John 8
> 
> But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
> 
> But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
> 
> At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."
> 
> When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." The Pharisees challenged him, "Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid."
> 
> Jesus answered, "Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me." Then they asked him, "Where is your father?" "You do not know me or my Father," Jesus replied. "If you knew me, you would know my Father also."
> 
> clearly jesus and the pharisees had a different interpretation of the law, Jesus offered forgiveness, love, and the promise of new life. the pharisees offered a stoning and certian death; no forgivness, no new life, no love.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So did Jesus contradict himself, or was John's account inaccurate?
Click to expand...


no, it would be your comprehension of the material that is flawed.


----------



## Neser Boha

actsnoblemartin said:


> you head is far buried up your pussy, you cant see rhime from reason
> 
> idiot
> 
> 
> 
> Neser Boha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islam has policies  for law,justice , economics,  personal matters  and social interaction, it has policies for everything Islam and politics are inseparable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, in that case Christianity has policies on everything as well - yet how many people follow them all or even know of/agree with them all?  Do you know how many Muslims agree with/apply the Sharia law?  How many of them do you think agree with public stoning, etc?  You can't put them all in the same box - that's intellectually dishonest!  It's not only impossible, but also potentially dangerous.  There are millions upon millions on Muslims and I don't think they could all elect one person to speak for all of them - or even ten.  There are Muslims that love drinking alcohol, there are Muslims that don't wear head-garb, there are Muslims that party A LOT, there are Muslims that are mathematicians, scientists, cooks, drug-addicts, taxi-drivers, people with families whose main concern is to take care of those families... They are just like the rest of us.  One word, one concept, can't define us just as 'Islam' can't define all Muslims.
> 
> I wish you'd just stop this nonsense because it makes you look extremely narrow-minded and hateful.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


I wish people that consider themselves so far intellectually superior to me would at least learn to spell.  Seriously, it does take away from your already impoverished little statement.  Do you have a counter-argument, some sort of rebuttal, or are you just trolling which is not helping anyone - not even your own cause?


----------



## mystic

actsnoblemartin said:


> you head is far buried up your pussy, you cant see rhime from reason
> 
> idiot



Wow, you're soooo classy. Was that English? _"you head is far buried"?_ 

Anybody else think his quote from Socrates, "The unexamined life is not worth living," is just a tad bit ironic?


----------



## mal

Neser Boha said:


> Well, in that case Christianity has policies on everything as well - yet how many people follow them all or even know of/agree with them all?  Do you know how many Muslims agree with/apply the Sharia law?  How many of them do you think agree with public stoning, etc?  .



I Know this... More than one Islamic Country IS Stoning People to Death...

For things like Accusations of Infidelity...

And NO Christian Country is.

Because it's not Every Single Last One of them, doesn't Negate what it is.

That's a Weak Deflection.

Islam is a Brutal and Barbaric Religion in MANY Regions of the World, and it has Control of Governments...



peace...


----------



## Neser Boha

tha malcontent said:


> Neser Boha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, in that case Christianity has policies on everything as well - yet how many people follow them all or even know of/agree with them all?  Do you know how many Muslims agree with/apply the Sharia law?  How many of them do you think agree with public stoning, etc?  .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I Know this... More than one Islamic Country IS Stoning People to Death...
> 
> For things like Accusations of Infidelity...
> 
> And NO Christian Country is.
> 
> Because it's not Every Single Last One of them, doesn't Negate what it is.
> 
> That's a Weak Deflection.
> 
> Islam is a Brutal and Barbaric Religion in MANY Regions of the World, and it has Control of Governments...
> 
> 
> 
> peace...
Click to expand...


Well, I'm glad you've got it all figured out like this.  I'm sure your opinion of the entire Islam being evil as well as all of its followers is going to make the world a better place.  

Do you ever think of it this way?  "What am I fighting for?"  and "How does what I say/think impact the world around me?"  I'm being serious.  Generalizations have always been dangerous as history has proven to us over and over again - with millions being slaughtered for what - some stupid-ass fucked up 'generalization'.  

I've had numerous bad experiences with gypsies (to be pc - the Roma people) in my life because I'm from a town that was split among: the Roma, the neo-nazis, the anarchists (on Roma side), and the rest that didn't care.  By all the experiences and all I've been told about gypsies, I could be hating them and people could rationalize my hate.  But guess what, I realized, by the ripe ol' age of 16, that that shit just doesn't fly and one can't condemn any group for actions of a few individuals (not that I ever actually did that when I was younger).  I wish Muslims were also seen as individuals with different interests, opinions, wishes, rather than a group that is defined by the fucked-up minority.



I also wish you replied to the rest of the comment I made, not just that little excerpt.


----------



## mystic

Intense said:


> I'm against your inability to comprehend what you read.  I fully support Individual Liberty and Government by the consent of the Governed.  I Believe in Inalienable Right and Separation of Church and State.  Civil Law Governs the State and Sharia Law has no place there.  I do not want the USA to look like any version of Sharia Law. Why do you get that impression?



I'll have you know, my English reading comprehension is excellent. Perhaps I need to go over things with you again. A little slower this time.

I said:



> The price of liberty is in allowing difference of opinion. Which can be quite painful sometimes.
> 
> You think I want to hear what the Klan wants to say? Nope. Personally, I think they're evil. But I support their right to gather and make speeches. A right given to them by the constitution. You want to start outlawing things which you think are dangerous? That is a slippery slope.
> 
> You gotta take the good with the bad. That's the price of liberty.



then you said:



> I think that you got off on the wrong floor. The end result of your scenario is Jail, enslavement, and death, by giving those power over you, through their exercise of Religion. You hurt yourself and those around you by your denial, by your blindness; nor are you Justified by manipulation of Constitutional Principle.  There is no place for Sharia Law in the USA.



So I say how the price of liberty is allowing freedom of speech and dissent even (from things that you find distastful) and you tell me that I've gotten off on the wrong floor; that "my scenerio" leads to enslavement and death...which means that you are against freedom of speech and dissent. Are you following so far? Comprehend?
That is why I said you would like to implement "your" version of sharia. No dissent allowed. No freedom of speech. Only your religion allowed to be practiced... Actually, that's not being fair to sharia.


----------



## mystic

Sunni Man said:


> Fatality said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> The west will just have to change.
> 
> Because muslims will continue to dress and act as muslims reguardless of past traditions or ideals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bullshit, we are not changing to please you. learn to behave like *civilsed *people instead of 7th century barbarians
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Learn to spell first and maybe people will listen to you
Click to expand...


Maybe he's British.


----------



## mystic

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Sorry about the mischaracterization , feel free to rejoin the thread at your leisure.
> You seem a reasonable person  who can disagree with out being to terribly disagreeable..



Same to you.


----------



## Intense

Intense said:


> mystic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I was doing that in another thread and you ran away .
> What is the price of liberty?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which thread? I don't recall running away.
> 
> The price of liberty? I'll tell you the price of liberty.
> 
> The price of liberty is in allowing difference of opinion. Which can be quite painful sometimes.
> 
> You think I want to hear what the Klan wants to say? Nope. Personally, I think they're evil. But I support their right to gather and make speeches. A right given to them by the constitution. You want to start outlawing things which you think are dangerous? That is a slippery slope.
> 
> 
> 
> You gotta take the good with the bad. That's the price of liberty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think that you got off on the wrong floor. The end result of your scenario is Jail, enslavement, and death, by giving those power over you, through their exercise of Religion. You hurt yourself and those around you by your denial, by your blindness; nor are you Justified by manipulation of Constitutional Principle.  There is no place for Sharia Law in the USA.
Click to expand...


Let me try this from a different perspective.

Opening the door to Sharia Law is the slippery slope. There is no recovery from totalitarianism.  This is not a free speech issue, this is undermining civil law. Opinion is a right, we take the good with the bad. Agreed.  The same applies to voice.  Sharia Law is Unconstitutional and had no legitimate place here.


----------



## Intense

Conclusion

The nightmare must end. Sharia oppresses the citizens of Islamic countries. Islam must reform, but the legal hierarchy in Islamic nations will not do this because the judges and legal scholars understand the cost: many passages in the Quran and the hadith must be rejected, and this they cannot do. After all, the Quran came down directly from Allah through Gabriel, so says traditional theology. So how can Islam reform? But reform it must. It can start by rewriting classical fiqh (interpretations of law). Again, though, that would mean leaving behind the Quran and Muhammad's example. How can the legal hierarchy in Islamic nations do this?

In contrast, the West has undergone the Enlightenment or the Age of Reason (c. 16001800+), so western law has been injected with a heavy dose of reason. Also, the New Testament tempers excessive punishments. At least when Christianity reformed (c. 14001600), the reformers went back to the New Testament, which preaches peace and love. So religion and reason in the West permit justice to be found more readilythe Medieval Church is not foundational to Christianity; only Jesus and the New Testament are. 

Can Islamic countries benefit from an Enlightenment that may deny the Quran and the hadith? This seems impossible. Islamic law threatens Muslims with death if they criticize Muhammad and the Quran, not to mention denying them.

Since Islamic law cannot be reformed without doing serious damage to original and authentic Islamthe one taught by Muhammadthen a second plan must be played out. Sharia must never spread around the world. At least that much is clear and achievable. The hard evidence in this article demonstrates beyond doubt that sharia does not benefit any society, for it contains too many harsh rules and punishments. 

One of the most tragic and underreported occurrences in the West in recent years is the existence of a sharia court in Canada.  Muslims are pushing for a sharia divorce courting Australia  as well. Having a court of arbitration if it is based on western law and legal theory is legitimate, but sharia does not hold to this standard. Whether sharia is imposed gradually or rapidly, Canada should promptly shut down any sharia court, and Australia should never allow one. Such a court should never be permitted in the US, the rest of the West, or anywhere else in the world that is battling Islam. 

It is true that the Enlightenment teaches tolerance, but it also teaches critical thinking and reasoning. Sharia cannot stand up under scrutiny. It is intolerant and excessive, and Aristotle in his Nicomachean Ethics teaches the West that excess is never just.

Thankfully, the province of Quebec, Canada, has forbidden sharia. This is the right initiative. 

Sharia ultimately degrades society and diminishes freedom.


Supplemental material:

In private emails to me or on websites, Muslim apologists (defenders) claim that the Islamic way of dealing with vices is superior to the western way, even in Islam's punishments like flogging and stoning. It is true that the West is filled with decadence, but are Islamic countries pure and pristine through and through, as these Muslim apologists imply? To anyone whose mind has not been clouded by a lifetime of devotion to Islam, the answer to this rhetorical question is obvious. Alcohol and other intoxicants and gambling serve as test cases.

This article says that Bahrain, an island and independent sate that is connected to Saudi Arabia by a causeway, provides a 'breathing lung' for Saudis because this Islamic island allows the free flow of alcohol and a night life. The words 'breathing lung' in Bahrain mean that Saudi Arabia suffocates people. On the weekends an average of 40,000 cars line up to cross the bridge.

This article discusses the smuggling of alcohol in Saudi Arabia and says:

"Western analysts note that alcohol smuggling of the magnitude underway in Saudi Arabia  perhaps tens of millions of dollars' worth of illegal merchandise annually  would likely involve the complicity of Saudi customs agents and perhaps a higherlevel patron."

This article reveals how Iranians get around the official ban on alcohol, like beer and vodka and other intoxicants, like opium. A black market has sprung upjust like the one in America during Prohibition.

This article says that even though the Taliban, the tyrants who formerly ruled Afghanistan, outlawed the growth of poppies, which are the source of opium, the leaders of the Taliban may have profited from the drug trade. The new and democratic government has a hard time keeping this drug under control.

This article says that authorities in Turkey threaten to imprison online gamblers, and this page links to a report (scroll to the second one) that discusses how Turkey must deal with the problem of monetary interest, alcohol, and gambling. It is revealing to see how Muslim religious leaders try to squirm out of Quranic laws against interest, in order to help Islamic financial institutions make money.

The purpose of these links is not to condemn Islamic countries or to assert that the West is better than they are. Facts say that the West has many problems. Rather, the purpose is to demonstrate that Islamic countries have their share of problems as well. This means that Islamic countries are also decadent. This means that Islamic punishments do not work entirely (except by scare tactics), but they can drive the sin or crime underground.

on "Top ten reasons why sharia is bad for all societies"


American Thinker: Top ten reasons why sharia is bad for all societies


----------



## Sunni Man

LOL!!! that's the stupidist post I have ever read


----------



## Intense

Chop Chop.


----------



## actsnoblemartin

this is an excellent post, im not surprised most had their heads up their ass a.k.a. ignored it 



Intense said:


> Conclusion
> 
> The nightmare must end. Sharia oppresses the citizens of Islamic countries. Islam must reform, but the legal hierarchy in Islamic nations will not do this because the judges and legal scholars understand the cost: many passages in the Quran and the hadith must be rejected, and this they cannot do. After all, the Quran came down directly from Allah through Gabriel, so says traditional theology. So how can Islam reform? But reform it must. It can start by rewriting classical fiqh (interpretations of law). Again, though, that would mean leaving behind the Quran and Muhammad's example. How can the legal hierarchy in Islamic nations do this?
> 
> In contrast, the West has undergone the Enlightenment or the Age of Reason (c. 16001800+), so western law has been injected with a heavy dose of reason. Also, the New Testament tempers excessive punishments. At least when Christianity reformed (c. 14001600), the reformers went back to the New Testament, which preaches peace and love. So religion and reason in the West permit justice to be found more readilythe Medieval Church is not foundational to Christianity; only Jesus and the New Testament are.
> 
> Can Islamic countries benefit from an Enlightenment that may deny the Quran and the hadith? This seems impossible. Islamic law threatens Muslims with death if they criticize Muhammad and the Quran, not to mention denying them.
> 
> Since Islamic law cannot be reformed without doing serious damage to original and authentic Islamthe one taught by Muhammadthen a second plan must be played out. Sharia must never spread around the world. At least that much is clear and achievable. The hard evidence in this article demonstrates beyond doubt that sharia does not benefit any society, for it contains too many harsh rules and punishments.
> 
> One of the most tragic and underreported occurrences in the West in recent years is the existence of a sharia court in Canada.  Muslims are pushing for a sharia divorce courting Australia  as well. Having a court of arbitration if it is based on western law and legal theory is legitimate, but sharia does not hold to this standard. Whether sharia is imposed gradually or rapidly, Canada should promptly shut down any sharia court, and Australia should never allow one. Such a court should never be permitted in the US, the rest of the West, or anywhere else in the world that is battling Islam.
> 
> It is true that the Enlightenment teaches tolerance, but it also teaches critical thinking and reasoning. Sharia cannot stand up under scrutiny. It is intolerant and excessive, and Aristotle in his Nicomachean Ethics teaches the West that excess is never just.
> 
> Thankfully, the province of Quebec, Canada, has forbidden sharia. This is the right initiative.
> 
> Sharia ultimately degrades society and diminishes freedom.
> 
> 
> Supplemental material:
> 
> In private emails to me or on websites, Muslim apologists (defenders) claim that the Islamic way of dealing with vices is superior to the western way, even in Islam's punishments like flogging and stoning. It is true that the West is filled with decadence, but are Islamic countries pure and pristine through and through, as these Muslim apologists imply? To anyone whose mind has not been clouded by a lifetime of devotion to Islam, the answer to this rhetorical question is obvious. Alcohol and other intoxicants and gambling serve as test cases.
> 
> This article says that Bahrain, an island and independent sate that is connected to Saudi Arabia by a causeway, provides a 'breathing lung' for Saudis because this Islamic island allows the free flow of alcohol and a night life. The words 'breathing lung' in Bahrain mean that Saudi Arabia suffocates people. On the weekends an average of 40,000 cars line up to cross the bridge.
> 
> This article discusses the smuggling of alcohol in Saudi Arabia and says:
> 
> "Western analysts note that alcohol smuggling of the magnitude underway in Saudi Arabia  perhaps tens of millions of dollars' worth of illegal merchandise annually  would likely involve the complicity of Saudi customs agents and perhaps a higherlevel patron."
> 
> This article reveals how Iranians get around the official ban on alcohol, like beer and vodka and other intoxicants, like opium. A black market has sprung upjust like the one in America during Prohibition.
> 
> This article says that even though the Taliban, the tyrants who formerly ruled Afghanistan, outlawed the growth of poppies, which are the source of opium, the leaders of the Taliban may have profited from the drug trade. The new and democratic government has a hard time keeping this drug under control.
> 
> This article says that authorities in Turkey threaten to imprison online gamblers, and this page links to a report (scroll to the second one) that discusses how Turkey must deal with the problem of monetary interest, alcohol, and gambling. It is revealing to see how Muslim religious leaders try to squirm out of Quranic laws against interest, in order to help Islamic financial institutions make money.
> 
> The purpose of these links is not to condemn Islamic countries or to assert that the West is better than they are. Facts say that the West has many problems. Rather, the purpose is to demonstrate that Islamic countries have their share of problems as well. This means that Islamic countries are also decadent. This means that Islamic punishments do not work entirely (except by scare tactics), but they can drive the sin or crime underground.
> 
> on "Top ten reasons why sharia is bad for all societies"
> 
> 
> American Thinker: Top ten reasons why sharia is bad for all societies


----------



## Sunni Man

The west will someday be ruled by Sharia Law.

Maybe not in my life time, but it will happen.


----------



## Intense

Sunni Man said:


> The west will someday be ruled by Sharia Law.
> 
> Maybe not in my life time, but it will happen.



There are the 666 Prophesies. That's not anything to be proud of though, and the cost is condemnation.  Get out while you still can.


----------



## Sunni Man

Intense said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> The west will someday be ruled by Sharia Law.
> 
> Maybe not in my life time, but it will happen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are the 666 Prophesies. That's not anything to be proud of though, and the cost is condemnation.  Get out while you still can.
Click to expand...


----------



## Intense

Sunni Man said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> The west will someday be ruled by Sharia Law.
> 
> Maybe not in my life time, but it will happen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are the 666 Prophesies. That's not anything to be proud of though, and the cost is condemnation.  Get out while you still can.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Eternal Reward is not about which club You belong to. It's about putting God First in All Things, God, not the Club. You need to study Revelation better, if it pleases you.


----------



## Sunni Man

Intense said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are the 666 Prophesies. That's not anything to be proud of though, and the cost is condemnation.  Get out while you still can.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Eternal Reward is not about which club You belong to. It's about putting God First in All Things, God, not the Club. You need to study Revelation better, if it pleases you.
Click to expand...


Thanks, I studied th Book of Revelations for years.


----------



## Intense

Sunni Man said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eternal Reward is not about which club You belong to. It's about putting God First in All Things, God, not the Club. You need to study Revelation better, if it pleases you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks, I studied th Book of Revelations for years.
Click to expand...


Can you clarify the response?


----------



## stonewall

Sunni Man said:


> The west will someday be ruled by Sharia Law.
> 
> Maybe not in my life time, but it will happen.




This is why Islam must be destroyed. 

It's followers cannot change. The religion cannot be reformed. 

I am not saying that America must kill Muslims. I don't think that is necessary. But, what is necessary is that we lift the veil. We tell the truth about Islam. What it is.

What Islam is... is a political system. First and foremost that is what it is. 

It is not a religion in the sense that Americans accept that term. 

It is a way of life. A system of government. A system of laws.

A Muslim is a slave to "Allah".

And, it is not up to Non-Muslims to decide who a moderate is or a so-called radical Muslim. It's impossible for us to do this. And, an unnecessary exercise.

If someone calls themselves a Muslim than we can assume they follow Muhammad and wish to destroy our way of life. They are enemies of America.

If that is not true for a specific Muslim, then it's time to leave your slavery behind.

But, don't blame Non-Muslims for failing to differentiate between you and your co-religionists. Radical-moderate... who cares?


----------



## mdn2000

for all the money the arabs have they are the most under-educated people.

do a search on teachers in saudi arabia, many are from the west and they state that the pupils refuse to do any sort of work in order to learn.

thats why foreigners do most the work,


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## JW Frogen

I lived in Saudi Arabia for a time and Wahabi Islam inflicts so many prohibitions on reason and free thought that there are few subjects in the humanities that can actually be openly taught. Forget any real attempt at global history or philosophy, comparative religion or even world literature.

Most Saudis have no hope in hell of understanding the world they live in unless they are the elite class who have access to some education in the West.

Saudi Arabia is the extreme, granted (sort of like the Mississippi of the Islamic world) but other Islamic nations have varying hindrances on reason and free thought.

Egypt recently wiped out the famous pigs of Cairo (who perform a vital garbage destruction role) because of Swine flu, there justification for this judgment, Islamic traditions on the vile nature of the pig.


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## Mr.Fitnah

Not a Saudi but:  Sayyid Qutb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## mdn2000

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Not a Saudi but:  Sayyid Qutb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Crazy. Nasser was a nut, wasn't he the one who attacked Yemen, a very bloody war.


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