# Blacks and whites don't know each other well ... at all.



## John Shaw (Jul 22, 2017)

Though they think they do.

Both are suspicious of the other. The media likes to make it seem like it's white peoples' fault, that we don't listen. But from everything I've read and heard, black folks seem to make plenty of assumptions about us as well, many of which are just downright ridiculous. 

So here I am. While I can only represent myself, I do know a lot of white people, and I know how they act when black folks aren't around.. I know how we operate to the last little detail. At least, in the middle-upper middle class. Rich white people might as well be from a different planet than us, which is why it's so aggravating that we get lumped in with them. 

Think you know white people, huh? Well ask your question, or state your supposition, and find out. I'll give you as straight an answer as I can, as long as it's not something lame like, "Why do you smell like wet dogs?" Dude; 1. I don't know, and 2. That's kinda rude. 

Oh, ask me questions about sex and dating. I love those spicy ones.


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## Paul Essien (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> Though they think they do.
> 
> Both are suspicious of the other. The media likes to make it seem like it's white peoples' fault, that we don't listen. But from everything I've read and heard, black folks seem to make plenty of assumptions about us as well, many of which are just downright ridiculous.


What assumptions ?



John Shaw said:


> So here I am. While I can only represent myself, I do know a lot of white people, and I know how they act when black folks aren't around.


You don’t need to tell me how white people act when black people are not around. We know dude....We know. 

I know white people would be basically to sh*t scared to say anything to a black man’s face. If a white man was to say anything to me, that would not end well for that white man. I wouldn’t just punch him in the face….I think you know where I’m coming from.

But most white people are blind to their racism, but many of those who are not keep quiet because they must get along with other white people, most of whom are racist and who can make things ugly for anyone who calls them on it.



John Shaw said:


> I know how we operate to the last little detail. At least, in the middle-upper middle class. Rich white people might as well be from a different planet than us, which is why it's so aggravating that we get lumped in with them.


But poor white people have consistently allowed rich white supremacist men to have the power, because as former USA President Lyndon Johnson said










John Shaw said:


> Think you know white people, huh?


I don’t care if I know white people. I know what white people can do. And that’s all that matters

You do not have to be a rich moneyman to have an effect on thousands of people. Teachers, doctors, policemen and newspaper editors all do. Nor do you have to be rich to benefit from white racism. Working-class whites, for example, live longer and have more wealth than even middle-class blacks.


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## Iceweasel (Jul 22, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> I know white people would be basically to sh*t scared to say anything to a black man’s face. If a white man was to say anything to me, that would not end well for that white man. I wouldn’t just punch him in the face….I think you know where I’m coming from.
> 
> But most white people are blind to their racism, but many of those who are not keep quiet because they must get along with other white people, most of whom are racist and who can make things ugly for anyone who calls them on it.
> 
> You do not have to be a rich moneyman to have an effect on thousands of people. Teachers, doctors, policemen and newspaper editors all do. Nor do you have to be rich to benefit from white racism. Working-class whites, for example, live longer and have more wealth than even middle-class blacks.


You have a chip on your shoulder, like a lot of black folks. I've had several lately walk in front of my truck daring me to hit them. How stupid can humans get? I owe you nothing. Nobody owes you. If you can't make it in this country you can't make it anywhere. Maybe you should focus on success instead of being a butt hurt victim in life spoiling for a fight.


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## DarkFury (Jul 22, 2017)

*Why do negro's have a higher rate of drug use?
Why do negro's have a higher rate of STD?
Why do negro's have a lower graduation rate?
Why do negro's promote higher crime rates where they live?
Why do negro's listen to shit for brains like
Jesse Jackson?
AL sharpton?
Maxine watters?

Fury
White Mexican*


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## Paul Essien (Jul 22, 2017)

Iceweasel said:


> You have a chip on your shoulder, like a lot of black folks.


I don’t hate white people, but then again, I don’t hate Tigers, but I understand a Tigers nature. I understand that Tigers kill. It’s not personal. It’s just their nature. I think in a global system of white supremacy I think it’s constructive for black people to be wary, cautious and un-trusting of white people, if this is me having a chip on my shoulder, then so be it.


Iceweasel said:


> I've had several lately walk in front of my truck daring me to hit them. How stupid can humans get?



More like you tried to hit them but chickened out at the last minute.


Iceweasel said:


> I owe you nothing. Nobody owes you. If you can't make it in this country you can't make it anywhere. Maybe you should focus on success instead of being a butt hurt victim in life spoiling for a fight.


White ppl claim they are victims of all kinds of things: taxes, big government, immigrants, reverse discrimination, secular humanism, gay marriage, “radical Islam,” you name it. Whites loves victimhood, so long as they’re the ones who get to choose which victims count

For a black person to tell their kids that they can be anything they want to be if they try hard enough is nice, but unless you warn them about the obstacles in their path, they ill-suiting them for the real world. They are doing them no favours,

Downplaying racism backfires. If a black person is led to believe that there are no obstacles in their way, and that their hard work, intelligence and ability are all that will matter, they might slack up.

They might coast on the assumption that surely all will recognize their potential, and that they won’t have to go that extra mile to make a good impression. They may overestimate the extent to which whites will recognize their effort and hard work

On the other hand, by discussing those obstacle and strategies of resistance to them blk ppl who are the targets of racism can steel ourselves against the headwinds in our way


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## Iceweasel (Jul 22, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> Iceweasel said:
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> 
> > You have a chip on your shoulder, like a lot of black folks.
> ...


I didn't claim you hated whites, why did you misrepresent me? I said you have a chip on your shoulder looking for a fight. 

You missed my main point entirely. I don't give a shit if you are wary of whites and I am under no obligation to understand you. I was just pointing out that your butthurt is your problem, not somebody else's.


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## gipper (Jul 22, 2017)

Iceweasel said:


> Paul Essien said:
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> 
> > I know white people would be basically to sh*t scared to say anything to a black man’s face. If a white man was to say anything to me, that would not end well for that white man. I wouldn’t just punch him in the face….I think you know where I’m coming from.
> ...


What is it about blacks walking in front of cars?  It has happened to me several times.  A family friend drives for Uber and he has some harrowing stories of blacks doing this to him.  He has nearly hit several of them.  He says he won't make pick ups in black neighborhoods any more, because of it.  

I recently saw two young black women get off a city bus on a main 5 lane thoroughfare, where speeds are often in excess of 50 mph.  Instead of walking a short distance to a traffic light and safely crossing, they chose to cross in front of traffic.  Luckily they weren't hit.


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## Paul Essien (Jul 22, 2017)

Iceweasel said:


> I didn't claim you hated whites, why did you misrepresent me? I said you have a chip on your shoulder looking for a fight.


I have a chip on my shoulder and looking 2 pick a fight with whites ?

Whenever I say something bad about whites it always has to do with their racism. 

I do not make fun of how white people talk or dress or look.
I do not make fun of the food white people eat or the names they give their children.
I do not hold up their poorest and most criminal elements of white people as “what white people are like”.
I do not excuse violence against them saying that whites kill each other all the time.
I do not say white people are not as smart as black people.
I do not make racist jokes about them.
I do not call them racial slurs or compare them to animals.
I do not call for their genocide or ethnic cleansing.
When black people begin lynching, raping, oppressing, exploiting, shooting, jailing, maiming, torturing, evangelizing, robbing, stereotyping, bombing, burning, segregating, building highways and thruways to dislocate businesses, communities and neighborhoods; creating sun-down towns, experimenting on, discriminating against, prohibiting, murdering, holding back/controlling in every imaginable way while *HATING WHITE PEOPLE* en mass via de jure and de facto racism for *HUNDREDS* of years, then and only then can saying to me or any black person that they are looking to pick a fight with whites and have a chip on the shoulder will make a sense


Iceweasel said:


> You missed my main point entirely. I don't give a shit if you are wary of whites and I am under no obligation to understand you. I was just pointing out that your butthurt is your problem, not somebody else's.


I'm not trying to persuade you. This is what you're are assuming.

Persuading whites to give up the benefits of racism, to give up a false pride in their race, to become outcasts from white society, to face their shame and guilt at benefiting from a racist society – all that is way, way, _way _beyond my powers.

Nor I am in the business of telling sob stories to appeal to the pity of whites. 

As I have made plain elsewhere I think most whites have hearts of stone when it comes to blacks.

I write about white people & racism for my own understanding. That is not the same thing as writing to persuade white people.

For some reason you and others expect me and IM2  to write to the white point of view.

*As if there are not enough people doing that already. *


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## DarkFury (Jul 22, 2017)

gipper said:


> Iceweasel said:
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> > Paul Essien said:
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*They are playing the negro lottery. One gets killed the rest scream racist and Sue.*


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## Iceweasel (Jul 22, 2017)

gipper said:


> What is it about blacks walking in front of cars?  It has happened to me several times.  A family friend drives for Uber and he has some harrowing stories of blacks doing this to him.  He has nearly hit several of them.  He says he won't make pick ups in black neighborhoods any more, because of it.
> 
> I recently saw two young black women get off a city bus on a main 5 lane thoroughfare, where speeds are often in excess of 50 mph.  Instead of walking a short distance to a traffic light and safely crossing, they chose to cross in front of traffic.  Luckily they weren't hit.


I've had deadbeats in town do it too but blacks will do it anywhere, especially parking lots. Two of them veered off course to walk towards my truck. I didn't alter course or speed and whisked by them in inches. I saw them both jump around and act outraged in my rear view.

Another time three blacks were walking on the shoulder of a busy road, never even saw anyone walking that section before, no stores or homes nearby. Anyway the one on the left was big and fat and lumbering across the line into the lane. a car was in the left lane so I breezed by his elbow while laying on my very loud horns. Looked like he crapped his diapers.

We see the mentality of the idiot racists here. Maybe they are hoping for a big payday?


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## Iceweasel (Jul 22, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> For some reason you expect me to write to the white point of view.
> 
> *As if there are not enough people doing that already. *


You still don't get it. You need a tutor. I don't expect anything from you and don't care how well you deal with life. It isn't my problem. It isn't the problem of whites, Asians, Mongolians or anyone else's problem. Bellyaching about whitey doesn't alter anything. You can work and live a decent life in this country or live in a doorway and blame it on others. It's your choice.


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## Paul Essien (Jul 22, 2017)

Iceweasel said:


> You still don't get it. You need a tutor. I don't expect anything from you and don't care how well you deal with life. It isn't my problem. It isn't the problem of whites, Asians, Mongolians or anyone else's problem. Bellyaching about whitey doesn't alter anything. You can work and live a decent life in this country or live in a doorway and blame it on others. It's your choice.


You initially replied to me. You started the convo. Not me

Next this is a common tactic that whites try and come with "Stop bellyaching" "Stop whining"

There was a guy called Joshua Solomon in 1999. He changed himself from black to white

He was like u, one of those tough talking white people who used say "blacks whine" and "racism is not barrier to success"

So what did he do ? He went 2 a doc who gav him pills 2 turn his white skin brown. He shaved the hair off his head but dressed the same, acted the same, talked the same

This is him.






*After 1 week this tough talking white man was done.*

He was going to do it for 4 mths n visit diff parts of the USA.

As a white man he looks and smiles at White people and they smile back. But as a Black man whites look away, lock their doors, assume he is dangerous or up to no good.

The police would stop him even though he was just walking down the street minding his own business.

Restaurants would tell him they were full, even when they were not, restaurants where nearly everyone sitting down was – White.

White respect and friendliness that he took for granted was gone. Instead Whites regarded him with disdain, even fear.

*By his 2nd day he was in tears.*

Oprah did a programme about it.

Irony is, what he dealt was easiest part of racism. He didn't even get into the systematic part. 

Real racism is when you can deny people jobs, housing, health care, decent educations, or their physical freedom via the justice system, thereby wrecking their lives. And this once tough talking white man did not experience any of that. This is why I laugh when white people like u, like to come with any shaming tactics because whites can't handle racism for a minute.


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## beagle9 (Jul 22, 2017)

gipper said:


> Iceweasel said:
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> > Paul Essien said:
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. This is a legitimate question, because it's true.  I have had this happen as well, and many have spoken about their experience with this as well.  Personally I think it is an act of defiance or rebellion of some sort.  It's what happened with Michael Brown when the officer ask him to not walk in the middle of the road in which led to Brown's attempt to disrespect the officers request.  We all know how this ended. I was going to visit a relative, and their was a few young blacks walking down the road, and I was slowed down to around 5 miles an hour awaiting for them to step over onto the side of the road. Well one did, but the female continued in the lane of traffic (knowing that I was needing to get by), and she was doing so as if she was doing what she was doing on purpose. It really was a frustrating situation, but my patience in the matter just allowed me to ease along until finally she had made her point (whatever her point might have been), and she stepped aside.  I ask my relative on arrival if she knew the kids that I had encountered, and she said that they were visiting with their father until they have to go back home to their mother who lived in another state. This happened in the community in which my relative lived within.


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## Iceweasel (Jul 22, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > You still don't get it. You need a tutor. I don't expect anything from you and don't care how well you deal with life. It isn't my problem. It isn't the problem of whites, Asians, Mongolians or anyone else's problem. Bellyaching about whitey doesn't alter anything. You can work and live a decent life in this country or live in a doorway and blame it on others. It's your choice.
> ...


Liar. I said no such thing. I said very clearly your butthurt feelings are not my problem. I'm a person, not a race. A race didn't respond to you, I did. I said your life isn't my problem or anyone else's. You can snivel like a jilted schoolgirl for the rest of your life, it has no bearing on mine.


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## Paul Essien (Jul 22, 2017)

Iceweasel said:


> Liar. I said no such thing. I said very clearly your butthurt feelings are not my problem. I'm a person, not a race. A race didn't respond to you, I did. I said your life isn't my problem or anyone else's. You can snivel like a jilted schoolgirl for the rest of your life, it has no bearing on mine.


I find it ironic, that whites r willing 2 ignore racism, but will not ignore a person (like me) who is calling out racism.

N if ur tired of seeing me n IM2 challenging white racism, there’s an easy way 2 solve that problem. 

Do the work urselves.

If whites were willing 2 stand up condemn the racism in ur community then black people wud not have 2 b the ones leading the rally.

But most whites do nothing in the face of racism. Most don’t speak up, don’t talk back, don’t challenge family, friends, colleagues. 

Genocides unfold in 8 stages. Stopping it at stage 1 - Stops the genocide from going forward. The 1st ppl killed in any genocide r those in the mainstream who speak up 2 them. Now the message goes unchallenged.

Racism grows n feeds off a culture of silence. The point of calling out racism is 2 break down that silence. It doesn't matter if u persuade anyone. What matters is that u were heard n planted that seed in people’s minds of, “Hey, maybe this isn't right.”

Elizabeth Eckford was 1 of the first 9 black students 2 go 2 School in the American South. The 90% who were not giving her hell would not stand up to the 10% who were. 






So sure, whites may discount what black ppl saying (unless they agree with them) but they still _hear_ it. 

If something racist goes down and blacks say nothing, whites will assume that it is “okay” Especially since white ppl assume blacks r “oversensitive”.
.


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## gipper (Jul 22, 2017)

beagle9 said:


> gipper said:
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I agree.  It is an act of defiance, but it is really stupid and could every easily result in death or injury.


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## Iceweasel (Jul 22, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Liar. I said no such thing. I said very clearly your butthurt feelings are not my problem. I'm a person, not a race. A race didn't respond to you, I did. I said your life isn't my problem or anyone else's. You can snivel like a jilted schoolgirl for the rest of your life, it has no bearing on mine.
> ...


You are trying to support your silly argument with the 1960s? We moved on, you didn't. Many blacks are racist too but I don't want it made illegal. People should be free to use their own minds. How have you been harmed? No one will hire you or rent to you? How do other blacks make it? Many live much better than I do so maybe race didn't play a role. You make no sense.


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## Paul Essien (Jul 22, 2017)

Iceweasel said:


> You are trying to support your silly argument with the 1960s? We moved on, you didn't.


So you think racism was a problem in the 1960's ?


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## Iceweasel (Jul 22, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> Iceweasel said:
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> > You are trying to support your silly argument with the 1960s? We moved on, you didn't.
> ...


Sure it was. I lived in the segregated south.


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## beagle9 (Jul 22, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Liar. I said no such thing. I said very clearly your butthurt feelings are not my problem. I'm a person, not a race. A race didn't respond to you, I did. I said your life isn't my problem or anyone else's. You can snivel like a jilted schoolgirl for the rest of your life, it has no bearing on mine.
> ...


. So how exactly is it that the new white generation of today, is responsible for the racism of the past ?  Seems to me that the blacks are the ones constantly dwelling in the past, where as the whites are trying as hard as they can to move ahead, and get beyond the chains of the past. You won't let them, why ????  What is your overall goal found in your accessing of the past in order to weaponize it or use it as a weapon against the new generation of whites not beholding to the past ?  Is it seen as a way to exploit for easy gains or money maybe ?  Is it in the hopes of someday paying the white race (on whole) back for their dastardly deeds ?  Not being able to control your own race, has been found to pose a serious flaw in your agenda (if it is the case) that was being mentioned above.  Time to move on don't you think ?


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## beagle9 (Jul 22, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> Iceweasel said:
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> > You are trying to support your silly argument with the 1960s? We moved on, you didn't.
> ...


. So you want it to be the Boogeyman under your bed forever ?


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## Paul Essien (Jul 22, 2017)

Iceweasel said:


> ]Sure it was. I lived in the segregated south.


So how do you explain in 1963, a year before the Civil Rights Act was passed, two years before the Voting Rights Act, and five years before the Fair Housing Act, nearly two in three whites told Gallup pollsters that blacks were treated equally in their communities ?

This, in the same year that Medgar Evers was shot down dead in his driveway in Jackson and as I'm sure you know the name of "Bull Connor" well he plowed tanks through the black community and hosed down children in Birmingham, four young black girls were murdered at the 16th Street Baptist Church there, and another name you will know "George Wallace" said, “segregation today, segregation tomorrow and segregation ‘foreever’”

Even before that, in 1962, 85 percent of whites said that black children had just as good a chance to get a good education as white children.

And this was at a time when images of racism was beamed into their living rooms every night? This was at the height of one of the greatest freedom movements in history.

The bottom line is this: If at every point of American history, black folks have said “we have a problem,” and we have been right every time, while most whites have said all is well, and have been wrong just as often, what would allow u2 think that it was black folks who were suddenly misjudging the problem ? And whites who had at long last become keen observers of social reality?


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## Iceweasel (Jul 22, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> Iceweasel said:
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> > ]Sure it was. I lived in the segregated south.
> ...


Like I said, you are stuck in the past. I asked you how you were being held back and you ran back to the 60s.


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## Iceweasel (Jul 22, 2017)

Iceweasel said:


> Paul Essien said:
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Bump.

Hello? The 1960s called and they want their colored boy back.


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## Correll (Jul 22, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> John Shaw said:
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> > Though they think they do.
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Some white guy makes an offer for a real discussion on race and you have to start talking shit.

Sad.


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## beagle9 (Jul 22, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> Iceweasel said:
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> > ]Sure it was. I lived in the segregated south.
> ...


. Show us evidence where the things that you listed, are actually taking place today.  You can't do it, but keep that old Boogeyman going is the agenda, but why ?  What are your goals in keeping that Boogeyman up under your children's bed's ?? Can't you do it without the victimhood being the constant motivator of your actions ??  What about Africa ??  When will you all turn towards Africa, and begin the blame game against that continent in which you love to embrace, yet it doesn't embrace you ?? Yes racism existed, and yes it still does, but it's more of a cultural disagreement than an actual skin color problem these days. The reason that racism existed in the past, is because the blacks were brought here in chains for the purpose of slavery, and the blacks were of a primitive nature at the time, and they were kept in that state for the purpose of work without much thought of.  Slowly though, it was seen that these slaves were much smarter than were being given credit for, and so the long journey to help lift these slaves out of slavery by the whites throughout time had begun. Many sacrifices by whites were made, and the slave trade was abolished as it should have been. Then the long journey towards lifting the blacks from their primitive culture and state of mind began. It wasn't the blacks fault that they were in such a primitive state in which allowed them to be caught up in such an atrocious situation, but it was time to educate them, and get them out of the primitive state that they were in.  This was very important as so they would not be rejected or discriminated against in the coming years or their future here. It had been a long struggle, but the evidence is clear that the struggle has been a success, and yet the struggle is not over in the case of class warfare, inequality, and discrimination against any American of any color, and for any reason. To say that whites are against blacks because of their skin color is a lie straight out of hell for most living today.. Now their may be those on both sides attempting to keep the skin color fires going, but most are done with it, and it's time to move on.


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## John Shaw (Jul 22, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> What assumptions ?



Probably the one that is most pervasive and does the most damage is the sort of assumption that we are acting in tandem to do harm to black people, which simply isn't the case. I think black folks believe we think about them a lot more than we actually do. There is no evil hivemind. Very few of us get up in the morning rearing to make a black man's life shittier. Instead we're thinking, "Fuck ... I have to go to work ..."



Paul Essien said:


> You don’t need to tell me how white people act when black people are not around. We know dude....We know.



Well .. you probably don't. I think it goes without saying there are some extremely racist white people out there who act the way you're insinuating, but they're such a small minority it's not even funny. Usually just trailer trash and hicks. They are generally hostile to black people, but aren't really afraid to show it, at least where I live. They're too dumb to be afraid of much. 

HOWEVER ... the real difference in how white people talk around black people and how they talk around each other is that when the black people leave, the fear goes away. Not fear of a physical altercation, but fear of giving offense and making themselves look bad. insensitive or even worse, racist. "Looking bad" is one of the things white people fear most. So there is kind of a low-key sigh of relief when the black people leave. At least, until they get  to know you personally and what triggers you, so they can avoid it. 



Paul Essien said:


> I know white people would be basically to sh*t scared to say anything to a black man’s face.



There usually isn't much shit being said in the first place, as noted above. 



Paul Essien said:


> they must get along with other white people, most of whom are racist and who can make things ugly for anyone who calls them on it.



It's less like racism, or the belief in the superiority of one's race (it can be someone else's too) over others, and more like ignorance and fear. I could write all day about white peoples' fears. It's quite a fascinating subject. 



Paul Essien said:


> But poor white people have consistently allowed rich white supremacist men to have the power, because as former USA President Lyndon Johnson said



1. Johnson was a piece of shit. 2. What are we supposed to do? Go on a shooting spree? Throw our lives away and become assassins to topple the aristocracy? Viva la France? C'mon, man. We barely know who the real shakers and movers are, let alone have any way of fighting them. They're only now starting to come out of the woodworks thanks to the dumbass-in-chief. 



Paul Essien said:


> You do not have to be a rich moneyman to have an effect on thousands of people. Teachers, doctors, policemen and newspaper editors all do. Nor do you have to be rich to benefit from white racism. Working-class whites, for example, live longer and have more wealth than even middle-class blacks.



Not sure what you're getting at. You'll have to be more specific. There are a lot of reasons why the stats favor white people, other than just some vague and ominous notion of white supremacy.


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## John Shaw (Jul 22, 2017)

DarkFury said:


> *Why do negro's have a higher rate of drug use?
> Why do negro's have a higher rate of STD?
> Why do negro's have a lower graduation rate?
> Why do negro's promote higher crime rates where they live?
> ...



Please leave.


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## John Shaw (Jul 22, 2017)

beagle9 said:


> Paul Essien said:
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Well, I think this is a common way of looking at things. Not a very good one. You can't simply "move on". The ghosts of the past continue to haunt the present. You have to examine the way things are, identify problems, and then be willing to find solutions. Just saying, "Move on," is rather stupid. No offense. 

There is no hope in the boomer generation. Maybe with millennials, though millennials have their own issues to sort out. Namely outrageous student loan debt and somewhat thin skins.


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## AKIP (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> Though they think they do.
> 
> Both are suspicious of the other. The media likes to make it seem like it's white peoples' fault, that we don't listen. But from everything I've read and heard, black folks seem to make plenty of assumptions about us as well, many of which are just downright ridiculous.
> 
> ...



Well....I think no one really knows anyone other than themselves.....and many times people really don't know themselves. That having been said, historically blacks have HAD to deal with whites more than whites have had to deal with blacks. Blacks have to go through whites, as a general rule, to make it in this world. Whites, on the other hand, do not have to go through a black filtration process in order to make it. Blacks are only 13% of the population and we are underrepresented economically and politically while whites are the majority AND are over represented in terms of share of power and wealth . Black people are much more likely to be one of the few blacks in a company, school or classroom. Hence, unless we are talking about blacks who live in large segregated cities, like Detroit or Chicago, who are poor and unemployed, dealing with whites is a prerequisite to functioning in this society.

That having been said, I think it is safe to say that a greater percentage of blacks interact with whites than the percentage of whites who interact with blacks. Thus, if interaction leads to greater probabilities of getting to know people......it would logically follow that blacks likely know whites much better than whites know blacks.


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## Correll (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> beagle9 said:
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> > Paul Essien said:
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The Greatest Generation and the Boomers were the voters that kept voting pro-civil rights politicians into office thoughout the 50s and 60s and 70s, and 80s.

It is absurd to say they didn't do anything.


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## AKIP (Jul 22, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > ]Sure it was. I lived in the segregated south.
> ...



OUTSTANDING!!!!


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## John Shaw (Jul 22, 2017)

Correll said:


> John Shaw said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



I didn't say they didn't do anything. I meant that they've gone as far as they can. Old people are notoriously bad at changing their minds. And let's face it; old white people may not want to oppress anyone by and large, but most sure aren't gonna be happy if their kid marries a black person. Whereas with millennials that aversion (though it still exists on a primitive level) has mostly evaporated.


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## AKIP (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > John Shaw said:
> ...



I would say that it is a gain that young people seem to interact and get along better racially, however, millennials are the most selfish generation that I have ever seen. It's all about them and hedonism. That just look for what they can get out of something. Neither young blacks or whites have a healthy respect for history and how it explains the way things are.....and that ignorance to me is dangerous.


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## John Shaw (Jul 22, 2017)

AKIP said:


> John Shaw said:
> 
> 
> > Though they think they do.
> ...



White people are very superficial in public. ESPECIALLY with black people they don't know. That kind of superficiality serves as a barrier to protect one's self. It also prevents anyone from knowing them.

So while black people may know whites better than the other way around, I have a feeling they only really know the "face" that White America puts on in the morning. Black folks I meet seem much more up-front about who they are and what they want, which is admirable to a point. I realized early that black people were usually really friendly to me. Some were wary of me at first, but as they got to know me just a little bit, their defenses plummeted. Especially black women. White people will ALWAYS have a mask on, unless you're in their very inner circle of important people.

Black folks, in my experience, are a lot more willing to talk about race. I've heard a lot of modern-day stories about the sort of racism they have to deal with at times that makes me go, "Huh? That didn't really happen, right?"

But I don't think black people know how to broach the subject with white people they DON'T know. White people get defensive, and then black people start talking about injustices, and then it just descends into a cacophony of useless bickering. Seen it a thousand times. That's why such little progress has been made.


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## John Shaw (Jul 22, 2017)

AKIP said:


> John Shaw said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



This is kind of off-topic, as I could talk about my generation all day as well (millennials). All I'll say is, student loan debt is HUGE. Like, probably the no.1 problem we have in our lives. It basically prevents us from growing up. How can you, when you're paying $1,200 a month in loans, $1,000 + on rent, $400 on car and insurance, and so on and so forth? How could you dream of raising a family with that kind of extra burdern, especially if you're only making 40 - 50k (which is where a lot of millennials are right now)? It's impossible. So instead you think, "Well, I can't actually afford to be a real adult. Might as well go to the bar and try to enjoy the little bit of money I get to keep." Or something of that nature.

I think boomers have no clue how truly fucked Millennials are by student loan debt, and how much that is going to come around and bite society in the ass in the near future. The schools are absolutely raping their students for every nickel and dime they can get. And they're kids. They don't know shit yet. Easy marks. It's disgusting.


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## John Shaw (Jul 22, 2017)

Before I go and come back later to check up on this thread, I recall that in 1st - 3rd grade, I had one black person at my school. She was probably one of, if not the, most popular girl in the school. I remember her well; she could be a little mean, but was mostly just mischievous and fun, and people liked her. But I don't remember thinking of her as "black". I knew she had darker skin than everyone else, but that's about it. I didn't know anything about how I was "supposed" to feel about her, and I don't think many of the other white kids did either. So it was this kind of complete ignorance that allowed her to be one of the most well-liked people in school, in conjunction with her own personal qualities.

Is that what privilege means, to be so unaware of what race even is at such an age, when surely race is a defining part of a black kid's life? Maybe. But it's interesting, now that I think about it. I wonder if she went on to be successful, or if she succumbed to the curse of low expectations.

Actually, even into seventh grade, there were Hispanic and Asian kids at my school that I just assumed were white people who looked a little different. It wasn't until years later that I realized "Maria Diaz" was not white.


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## hjmick (Jul 22, 2017)




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## John Shaw (Jul 22, 2017)

hjmick said:


>



Nice paintbrush.

You're on a forum for discussing race. It's kinda unavoidable that generalizations are going to be made. Otherwise I'd have to preface every statement with, "I know not all ___ are like this, but _____ ..." People need to use their common sense and understand that that goes without saying.


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## Iceweasel (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> I think boomers have no clue how truly fucked Millennials are by student loan debt, and how much that is going to come around and bite society in the ass in the near future. The schools are absolutely raping their students for every nickel and dime they can get. And they're kids. They don't know shit yet. Easy marks. It's disgusting.


Conservatives know full well. We get accused of being anti-education for mentioning the socialist professor are laughing all the way to the bank. Government backed loans for anything will raise the price. If government gets in the auto loan business car prices will skyrocket too.


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## hjmick (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> hjmick said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...




Yeah, because including the word "some" in an editorial is much more difficult than just painting with a broad brush. It's either sheer laziness that leads one to "generalize" or it is the belief that an entire group of people is a particular way. That makes one either lazy or ignorant, and probably a bigot.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Jul 22, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > You have a chip on your shoulder, like a lot of black folks.
> ...



Global system of White supremacy?

How do you figure that one?

Where Whites take most of the heat for xenophobia?

Where there's sensitivity training for prejudices against non-Whites, but not for White victims of prejudices like Poles, or Italians?

Where tons of jobs go out of the hands of Whites, and into the hands of Chinese, Mexicans, and Indians etc.?


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > John Shaw said:
> ...



I'm a Millennial, and I'm more racist than my parents.

Perhaps it's because I'm of a Polish heritage?

In Poland Millennials are more  racist than their parents too.

I think Western Europeans are beyond bizarre.
These people went nuts with racism to extreme brutality.

Now, when we really need racism to combat the Western World's decline, Western Europeans have their heads up their butts, with anti-racism.

Now, when it becomes more, and more apparent that certain groups are inferior, when they still cause issues in spite of relative tolerance, Western Europeans have their heads up their butts, with anti-racism.

I don't really grasp, Western Europeans sometimes say Poles are dumb, I think Western Europeans are dumb.


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## John Shaw (Jul 22, 2017)

hjmick said:


> John Shaw said:
> 
> 
> > hjmick said:
> ...



Are you talking to me? If you actually read what I've written, you'll notice I do often use qualifiers like that. If I did it for every single thing, it would 1. make my writing choppy and unreadable, 2. take up even more space in posts that already tend to be lengthy. 

You need to get a grip. This kind of relentless scrutinization of the most minute and unintended "offenses" is why no one takes "progressives" seriously anymore. If you want to talk about substance, fine. But charging out the gate with accusations of bigotry, likely without even reading, is going to win you no friends. Or anyone who will care what you say at all.


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## John Shaw (Jul 22, 2017)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> John Shaw said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



No one really calls Polish people dumb anymore, in the United States at least. That joke has been dead for decades. Actually, the Polish are known for their work ethic more than anything. Unfortunately, many don't want to learn English for some reason, so they end up working crappy menial jobs that don't fit their level of education and talent. 

As for racism, no. It's never a good thing. But criticizing bad ideas? That's what we should be doing. And if you're referring to Islam, which you seem to be hinting at, then there are a lot of bad ideas there to be criticized.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> > John Shaw said:
> ...



I've heard dumb Polak jokes, and cracks in recent years.
So, no it's not dead.

But, Western society will be dead, if we tolerate it.


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## John Shaw (Jul 22, 2017)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> John Shaw said:
> 
> 
> > SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> ...



I haven't. But even if you have, they're jokes, which means they aren't serious. 

If they aren't dead, they are dinosaurs. 

People are starting to see the dangers of fundamentalist, dictatorial Islam, finally. Which is a good thing.


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## IM2 (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> Though they think they do.
> 
> Both are suspicious of the other. The media likes to make it seem like it's white peoples' fault, that we don't listen. But from everything I've read and heard, black folks seem to make plenty of assumptions about us as well, many of which are just downright ridiculous.
> 
> ...



The issue is about how whites in a certain segment of this society practice racism an how they created law and policy to deny people who were not white. I'm taking about whites recognizing the damage created by these laws and policies as well as the understanding of the current forms whites deny opportunities by skirting laws that are suppose to make such tactics illegal. We blacks know this happens so then this is not about thinking we know everything about whites, because it has been whites who have believed they know better what we want and need than we do.

Poor whites, middle class whites and rich whites are still practicing racism against non whites today. This white victimization crap needs to end and whites need to recognize what they have done to others in it's totality instead of always trying to build strawmen or argue using false equivalences.


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## IM2 (Jul 22, 2017)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> John Shaw said:
> 
> 
> > SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> ...



Jokes are not laws or policy.


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## IM2 (Jul 22, 2017)

DarkFury said:


> *Why do negro's have a higher rate of drug use?
> Why do negro's have a higher rate of STD?
> Why do negro's have a lower graduation rate?
> Why do negro's promote higher crime rates where they live?
> ...



None of that is true. And when you talk about shit for brains, I'll listen to Maxine Watters all day before I will Donald Trump.


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## John Shaw (Jul 22, 2017)

IM2 said:


> John Shaw said:
> 
> 
> > Though they think they do.
> ...



Trouble with this line of thought is, most whites don't believe they've ever "done anything". And they haven't, for the most part. They may benefit from a past that has favored them, but are they actively going out and  harming non-white people, specifically because they aren't white? Probably not. So when you say things like that, understandably they're going to bristle at the accusation. What are they supposed to do? Take the advantages they have and throw them away? That's foolishness. Why would you do that to yourself? Just to prove to everyone how noble you are? Come on. You'd laugh at such a person.

When it comes to laws, we have very little to do with them, and paid almost 0 attention to politics until this 2016 election between two circus clowns.

Republicans don't make it difficult for minorities to vote because they hate brown-skinned people; they do it because brown-skinned people don't like them, and don't vote for them. Their old playbook (from before the Trump era) was all about getting Hispanics on board the republican train. They would probably love to get more black people on board. But the democrats have that bloc on lock, for some reason, despite decades of urban poverty that disproportionately affected black folks. And I say all this as someone who doesn't like the republicans any more than he likes democrats. They're equally repugnant in their own special ways.

But the real reason republicans don't talk about black people specifically is because they think black people have no interest in their party and never will. Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy.


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## PredFan (Jul 22, 2017)

Bull shit.

I treat all people as individuals. I assess them as individuals and I find good people and I find assholes. There are white people I don't know and black people I do know. 

Color does not matter.


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## Iceweasel (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > John Shaw said:
> ...


You are way off the mark. Republicans make it difficult for brown skinned people to vote? How? 

Republicans don't cater to brown, black, female votes because they don't think those things demand separate policies. Democrats are the ones making those an issue. The policies should serve all, not a select group.


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## John Shaw (Jul 22, 2017)

PredFan said:


> Bull shit.
> 
> I treat all people as individuals. I assess them as individuals and I find good people and I find assholes. There are white people I don't know and black people I do know.
> 
> Color does not matter.



Color doesn't matter? Please. It always matters, for pretty much everything. And, fact of the matter is, black folks get the shit end of the stick almost every time, and even when they have a supposedly "good" stereotype about them, like black men being gods of the bedroom, it's also a double-edged sword that degrades everyone around it.

To say color doesn't matter is quite laughable, I'm afraid.


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## John Shaw (Jul 22, 2017)

Iceweasel said:


> John Shaw said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



From what I understand, they do this mostly through gerrymandering and limiting the number of polling locations in minority districts. 

As for not seperating people based on gender or color, please; one of their big ticket items is banning or severely limiting abortion. How can you say that with a straight face?


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## IM2 (Jul 22, 2017)

It's funny how you guys think. You want us to ignore racism pretend it no longer exists while you still practice it. We have to have chips on our shoulder but when you guys are expressing all manner of hate and falsehoods about us, you don't have a chip on yours.


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## Iceweasel (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > John Shaw said:
> ...


I've heard the spin. Democrats redistrict all the time, I'd like to see evidence Republicans limit polling stations. We don't even have any in this state, it's all mail in.

Abortion? I have no clue how that's related to race. Conservative women should embrace abortion to appeal to all women?


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## beagle9 (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Paul Essien said:
> ...


. By moving on, I mean quit letting the demons of the past haunt you or anyone else for that matter. Move on to tackle the new issues, get your piece of the pie, quit belly aching about the past, and look forward to the future.  Don't let the collective who are united in the wrong ways drag you or anyone else backwards. Look to connect to groups that have a positive outlook, and stay away from those who seek nothing but vengence against the ghost of the past.


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## beagle9 (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Paul Essien said:
> ...


. No offense taken.


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## PredFan (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > Bull shit.
> ...



No, color does not matter to me, not at all.

Maybe you didn't do the smart thing and read my post before replying, maybe you have a reading disability, or, more likely, you are a racist asshole.


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## PredFan (Jul 22, 2017)

The devide, which doesn't exist outside of small pockets of inner city populations, between black and white, male and female, heterosexual and gay, is solely a construct of the left. It doesn't occur in reality.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Jul 22, 2017)

IM2 said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> > John Shaw said:
> ...



What evidence do you have of the current U.S having laws, or policies which hinders Blacks?


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## beagle9 (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> AKIP said:
> 
> 
> > John Shaw said:
> ...


. Not only students but workers have become categorised by corporations as being paid by skill level/job title only, and not to prosper along with their companies in percentage rates of profits as an incentive or bonus for going that extra mile.  I think this all started in America when we went global, and became pitted against communist labor forces who spoiled the American business community, and made them think to themselves Hmmmm. It's been hell ever since.


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## IM2 (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > John Shaw said:
> ...



Sorry but I just cannot accept that excuse. If you are unjustly being given advantages that harm others and do nothing then you are doing harm to the others. So whites can get as mad as they want, but when whites gather around in places like this talking about how blacks don't work and how blacks are the ones waiting for handouts when they are the ones getting them, they need to shut up.

Republicans are racists. I live in a republican state. I think I can say that.   Urban poverty is not just on democrats. Stop trying to push that bull shit lie. We vote democrat because of the racism in the republican party.  Most of these people in his section posting are republicans, yet they tell us how the republican party is not a racist party. C'mon man do you whites really think we are that stupid that we see what's going on but that you can tell us anything and we are so dumb that we  will believe it? Blacks used to be faithful members of that party, but they turned to favoring the southern white racists that left the democratic party.This is the same mistake the democratic party is about to make as hey now ardently pursue the white "working class" voters which will create a third party because backs are going to leave the democratic party too.


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## IM2 (Jul 22, 2017)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> ...



What evidence do you have that there aren't any?


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > Bull shit.
> ...



Why is that?

Is it because Whitey's still oppressing them?
or
Because Blackie is too likely to leave his family behind in poverty, and not value education, or wise investments?


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## IM2 (Jul 22, 2017)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> John Shaw said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
> ...



Yep it is because whitey still practices racism.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Jul 22, 2017)

IM2 said:


> John Shaw said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



Quite a few Republicans on this very site, are not just anti-Racist, but extremely anti-Racist.
(Unotare, and Divine Wind come to mind)


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## IM2 (Jul 22, 2017)

PredFan said:


> The devide, which doesn't exist outside of small pockets of inner city populations, between black and white, male and female, heterosexual and gay, is solely a construct of the left. It doesn't occur in reality.



The divide exists everywhere and it's not a construct of just the left.


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## IM2 (Jul 22, 2017)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > John Shaw said:
> ...



You call those people anti racist? 

Then again you are a stormfront trooper.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Jul 22, 2017)

IM2 said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> > John Shaw said:
> ...



Hardly, actually there's plenty of evidence supporting quite the opposite.

Like why do Blacks with lower SAT scores get accepted to college more often than Whites, or especially Asians with the same SAT scores?

There's Affirmative Action, the Minority Business Development Agency, or Black History Month.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Jul 22, 2017)

IM2 said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



You obviously consider anyone who doesn't kiss your butt, as a racist.

I think you aren't a victim of racism, so much as you use racism as a tool of advantage.


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## Defiant1 (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> Though they think they do.
> 
> Both are suspicious of the other. The media likes to make it seem like it's white peoples' fault, that we don't listen. But from everything I've read and heard, black folks seem to make plenty of assumptions about us as well, many of which are just downright ridiculous.
> 
> ...



Why would I want to be around people I'm not comfortable with?
I just ignore them as much as I can.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Jul 22, 2017)

IM2 said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > The devide, which doesn't exist outside of small pockets of inner city populations, between black and white, male and female, heterosexual and gay, is solely a construct of the left. It doesn't occur in reality.
> ...



Blacks being inferior, and Chinese being superior exists everywhere.


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## beagle9 (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > Bull shit.
> ...


. Good grief... Don't agree with you here, as you are just stereotyping people, and therefore falling into the trap.


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## John Shaw (Jul 22, 2017)

PredFan said:


> John Shaw said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
> ...



Okay m8. Whatever you wanna believe. 

Though, the way you wrote out your message, it comes off as "I don't see color" and THEN "color doesn't matter", as though they were not directly connected. That's how people are going to read that, FYI. And also, I find the idea that skin color means nothing to you a bit absurd, considering we are biologically programmed to flock toward people who look like us, as documented countless times. Our bodies are literally prejudiced. So, yeah, kind of hard to believe.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Jul 22, 2017)

IM2 said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



If you follow my comments on Stormfront I clearly spent much of my time there combating Nazi propaganda there.

Those users there are often hardly race realists, more like Nazi jerks.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Jul 22, 2017)

How come Chinese in Black nations do better than Blacks, like in Jamaica, or South Africa?

Is that institutionalized racism too?


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## John Shaw (Jul 22, 2017)

beagle9 said:


> John Shaw said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
> ...



How am I stereotyping? Blacks, on average, fare worse than whites and Asians on many metrics. That's not stereotyping; those are numbers. And then I talked about a stereotype very briefly. 

Part of the problem is that people have fits of moral outrage over facts and figures. It's not the researcher's fault the numbers tell the story they do. If we deny the validity of statistics, which are flawed but the best we currently have, then we have no ground to stand on when it comes to these sorts of discussions.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > John Shaw said:
> ...



There's a major issue with this, according to the Pew Poll, Blacks were viewed with more favorable ratings than Asians were.


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## beagle9 (Jul 22, 2017)

IM2 said:


> John Shaw said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


. I went from a majority white elementary school to a majority black middle school by force due to desegregation. My first day was met with having to ride on a majority black student ridden school bus, and they wouldn't let me sit down with them until the driver walked back and yelled at one to slide over, and to let me sit down.  Then when I got to school, I walked into a densely populated hall where I was bumped into by black students, and my wallet was stolen (no lie). I reported it, but the counselor who was black told me that she was sorry that it happened.  Then one day I missed the bus, and walked towards a basketball court where I was going to ask someone what to do if such a thing happened ?  I was met by the students who were playing basketball and we're black, where as then they started pushing me back and forth amongst them, until they pushed me down.  Next me and a friend was wrestling, when all of a sudden I took a hit to the head.  Blood began to flow down my face, and I sought medical help.  It was a black girl who hit me with a pocket book that had books in it.  Next I was attacked one day when I walked near to a group of blacks, and one of them took a stick and began hitting me with it.  This was my experience in middle shool with the blacks back then.  Now you would think that I didn't have any black friends right ?  Wrong!  I had a black friend who was super cool, but when we went to his home one day, his older brother said that I wasn't coming into their house, and I was especially not going to sit at the table with them. My friend told his brother bullcrap he isn't coming in, and he told me to just walk right by him, and to ignore him. I caught hell in the middle school years with blacks, but it never made me a racist, because I know all blacks aren't racist just like all whites are racist.  I will say this though, you best believe that I can spot a racist from a mile away.


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## PredFan (Jul 22, 2017)

IM2 said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > The devide, which doesn't exist outside of small pockets of inner city populations, between black and white, male and female, heterosexual and gay, is solely a construct of the left. It doesn't occur in reality.
> ...



The divide does not exist everywhere, that is what you race-baiting racist assholes want us to believe. At my workplace everyone is equal, except the doctors of course, and color doesn't matter. Not to anyone, not at all and I'll bet that same scenario exists everywhere across the country. It is a construct 100% of the left and the media. Fact.


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## PredFan (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > John Shaw said:
> ...



I don't care what you believe, you will believe what supports your already held beliefs. I don't know where I flock to but if I instinctively don't flick to blacks, it doesn't mean color matters to me.


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## beagle9 (Jul 22, 2017)

beagle9 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > John Shaw said:
> ...


. Wow... Correction near the end.. It should have said just like all whites AREN'T racist...  Good grief... LOL.


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## DarkFury (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> > *Why do negro's have a higher rate of drug use?
> ...


*Those are fair questions.*


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## John Shaw (Jul 22, 2017)

Way off topic, at this point. The spotlight is supposed to be on white people in this thread. Yet instead it's become a condemnation of the black community's failures. I've heard that song and dance 10,000 times. It's boring to me.

And for a few people in here, the reason why we need to be able to not only co-exist, but come together, is because we're one country, and that country is poorly served when everyone's segregated into their own congregations, preaching to their respective choirs.

Assuming you're from the U.S. Otherwise, most of the conversation probably doesn't apply to you.


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## IM2 (Jul 22, 2017)

beagle9 said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



When you goys can stop telling us how blacks are using racism as an example to fail or are blaming whites for our failure then we can consider writing this disclaimer every time we write about whites. Because we damn sure don't see any of you saying some blacks at any time you decide to make comments about black people. You guys keep on talking abut black racists, but again what you call black racism is a response t the racism we get from whites. You guys seem to think that after experiencing white racism for years we are supposed to just think that the white person we see is not a racist automatically. And if we assume racism after years of trusting whites not to be racists and getting the racism from whites then a white person will call us black racists.

Things have not been  the same for blacks and whites. Yet you want to assign racism to another race after your race has continually practiced it for at least 241 years.. Seriously you whites must be crazy if you think you can mistreat people of color as you have continued to do in this country and expect that you will not produce non whites who can't stand white people.


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## IM2 (Jul 22, 2017)

DarkFury said:


> John Shaw said:
> 
> 
> > DarkFury said:
> ...



They would be fair if they were true.


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## IM2 (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> Way off topic, at this point. The spotlight is supposed to be on white people in this thread. Yet instead it's become a condemnation of the black community's failures. I've heard that song and dance 10,000 times. It's boring to me.
> 
> And for a few people in here, the reason why we need to be able to not only co-exist, but come together, is because we're one country, and that country is poorly served when everyone's segregated into their own congregations, preaching to their respective choirs.
> 
> Assuming you're from the U.S. Otherwise, most of the conversation probably doesn't apply to you.



The thing is we will never come together as long as you have people like these guys in this nation.


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## DarkFury (Jul 22, 2017)

IM2 said:


> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> > John Shaw said:
> ...


They are true!


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## IM2 (Jul 22, 2017)

PredFan said:


> John Shaw said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
> ...



But color does matter to you because you have made comments specifically about blacks.


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## IM2 (Jul 22, 2017)

DarkFury said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > DarkFury said:
> ...



No they are not. For example the rate of drug use is the same between whites and blacks.


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## John Shaw (Jul 22, 2017)

IM2 said:


> John Shaw said:
> 
> 
> > Way off topic, at this point. The spotlight is supposed to be on white people in this thread. Yet instead it's become a condemnation of the black community's failures. I've heard that song and dance 10,000 times. It's boring to me.
> ...



My hope is that they're trolling. A lot of online racists are trolling. Though not all. Of course.


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## IM2 (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > John Shaw said:
> ...



You can go to almost any forum like this and they are overrun with these kinds of people.


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## ClosedCaption (Jul 22, 2017)

Iceweasel said:


> Paul Essien said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
> ...





Paul Essien said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > ]Sure it was. I lived in the segregated south.
> ...



One nail drove deep into that coffin


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## DarkFury (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > John Shaw said:
> ...


You are here looking for pity using guilt. It's time the coloreds grew up and manned up.


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## John Shaw (Jul 22, 2017)

DarkFury said:


> John Shaw said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


s

??? Looking for pity using guilt? What does that mean? I came here for literally the reason I post in the OP, plus amusement and potentially learning a thing or two. How people feel about me is kind of irrelevant, especially online.


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## DarkFury (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> > John Shaw said:
> ...


*Nobody owes you a damn thing and after eight years of putting up with shit stain  you got nothing coming in the future.*


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## John Shaw (Jul 22, 2017)

You do realize I'm white, right? White as a dove. I just felt like having an interesting conversation, to hear from people I might not often get to talk to in my day-to-day. 

Look buddy; either you're trolling, or you're just a pretty unfortunate human being. Either way, maybe it's best to take the clown act to Stormfront, no? I'm not really interested.


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## DarkFury (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> You do realize I'm white, right? White as a dove. I just felt like having an interesting conversation, to hear from people I might not often get to talk to in my day-to-day.
> 
> Look buddy; either you're trolling, or you're just a pretty unfortunate human being. Either way, maybe it's best to take the clown act to Stormfront, no? I'm not really interested.


*I don't care what color you are.  Your agenda speaks for you. *


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## John Shaw (Jul 22, 2017)

DarkFury said:


> John Shaw said:
> 
> 
> > You do realize I'm white, right? White as a dove. I just felt like having an interesting conversation, to hear from people I might not often get to talk to in my day-to-day.
> ...



Yes, the agenda of treating people fairly. How horrible.

ZzZz ... c'mon buddy. I've heard it all already. Save yourself some time and effort and move along. This clearly isn't the place for you.


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## beagle9 (Jul 22, 2017)

IM2 said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...


. There you go again, being a racist from hell.. Don't you understand that you can't blame whites that aren't racist for your butt hurt life, but here you are saying whites and not some whites. You are retarded.


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## MaryL (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> Though they think they do.
> 
> Both are suspicious of the other. The media likes to make it seem like it's white peoples' fault, that we don't listen. But from everything I've read and heard, black folks seem to make plenty of assumptions about us as well, many of which are just downright ridiculous.
> 
> ...


Do you date blacks?


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## PredFan (Jul 22, 2017)

IM2 said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > John Shaw said:
> ...



If the thread is about blacks then yes, of course. It doesn't mean color matters to me. Are you able to see that simple truth or is your rabid rasism blocking your ability to think straight?


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## IM2 (Jul 22, 2017)

beagle9 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



You don't get to make up what racism is.

Prove when racism ended and its effects were allayed. Show, with data and peer-reviewed studies supporting your argument, when the effects of the hundreds of years of anti-Black racism from chattel slavery through Old Jim Crow leveled off. Show when the wealth expropriated during that oppression was repaid to those it was expropriated from and through. And remember, after you’ve addressed the end of anti-Black racism you’ll still have to explain when anti-Latinx, anti-Asian, anti-Arab, and anti-Native racism came to an end as well.

Good luck.


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## IM2 (Jul 22, 2017)

PredFan said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
> ...



You've it very plain that color does matter to you,


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## Correll (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > John Shaw said:
> ...




So, decades of supporting civil rights counts for nothing because they are not as quite as hip as the kids? Supposedly.


I think it is time to ask, will it EVER BE ENOUGH?


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## IM2 (Jul 22, 2017)

Correll said:


> John Shaw said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



There have been no decades like that.


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## Godboy (Jul 22, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> I know white people would be basically to sh*t scared to say anything to a black man’s face. If a white man was to say anything to me, that would not end well for that white man. I wouldn’t just punch him in the face….I think you know where I’m coming from.


Violence is always the answer with you guys and then you wonder why no one trusts you; why you cant get a cab, why youre watched in stores, why people avoid you in public, etc. You guys confuse the common sense of non-blacks, as racism. Your reputation is awful, deservedly. 

The black community has a lot of growing up to do.


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## DarkFury (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> > John Shaw said:
> ...


*Oh the truth upsets your widdel feelings? Awe poor little guy.*


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## Godboy (Jul 22, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> > John Shaw said:
> ...


If you were treating people fairly, you would be critical of the violence, racism and overall crime coming from the black community. You guys never criticize black people though. For some reason, the left has decided that criticizing non whites is racist. Its childish nonsense and you only perpetuate these problems by refusing to address them.


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## Correll (Jul 22, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > John Shaw said:
> ...




Your idiocy is noted and held against you.


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## beagle9 (Jul 22, 2017)

IM2 said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


. Good luck to you on trying to blame whites who had nothing to do with the way (not you), but your ancestors were treated because of their primitive culture, and their being cast into a bad situation in which the whites helped them get out of. The best solution for you is to get on a boat to the African Continent, and ask for justice, and reperations for your ancestors for selling your people into slavery all around the world. What, maybe to much of a task for you ? It's just to easy to get at that old guilt riddled brainwashed Hollywood liberal white idiot, who just might think that he owes you something in life huh ???


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## John Shaw (Jul 22, 2017)

Godboy said:


> If you were treating people fairly, you would be critical of the violence, racism and overall crime coming from the black community. You guys never criticize black people though. For some reason, the left has decided that criticizing non whites is racist. Its childish nonsense and you only perpetuate these problems by refusing to address them.



I guess this is the part where I have to start talking about myself, even though I have no interest in the topic.

1. Who says I'm not critical of black people? This thread happens to be about white folks, though.
2. I'm not on the "left" or "right". I find both deplorable.
3. This thread is not about black people's problems. It's pretty simple, I thought.


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## John Shaw (Jul 22, 2017)

MaryL said:


> Do you date blacks?



Sure. If I have any sort of racial preference, I'm not consciously aware of it.

But I'm always wary of the weird fetishes that some black and white people have for the other. It kinda creeps me out.

If I hear a black woman say something like, "I only like white guys," it's like "Yikes ..." I've only heard that a few times, fortunately. It's not flattering, and certainly won't make me like you more.


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## IM2 (Jul 23, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > Do you date blacks?
> ...



Yeah that kind of thing si strange for sure.


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## IM2 (Jul 23, 2017)

Godboy said:


> John Shaw said:
> 
> 
> > DarkFury said:
> ...



The thing is that whites have more violence and crime coming from their community. We don't have to multiply shit by 5, we don't have to male a claim of per capita. The overall total crime when tallied up show that whites commit 2.5 times the number of crimes as blacks. They commit almost double the violent crime, almost triple the drug crime, about 6 times the number of alcohol related crimes, double the crimes against family and children, double the rape, aggravated assaults, burglaries and larceny or theft. The commit 3 rimes the number of arsons, double the rate of car thefts, double the rate of property crime. So t hen why must John be critical of the black community when whites are worse?

What the fuck do idiots like you and maryl believe? That  even though whites commit double the crimes as we do, that you don't have a problem until it's 5 times the rate? That is just plain stump stupid.

Racism coming from the black community? What's that? Our angry response to what whites have done to us is now racism? Are you crazy?


----------



## Godboy (Jul 23, 2017)

IM2 said:


> The thing is that whites have more violence and crime coming from their community. /QUOTE]


No we dont. Ill put my neighborhoods crime stats up against any black neighborhood in the nation, and ill win.


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## Muhammed (Jul 23, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > You have a chip on your shoulder, like a lot of black folks.
> ...


What sort of "obstacles" are you speaking of?


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## IM2 (Jul 23, 2017)

Godboy said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > The thing is that whites have more violence and crime coming from their community. /QUOTE]
> ...



Well, I don't think so. And yes you do.


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## IM2 (Jul 23, 2017)

Muhammed said:


> Paul Essien said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
> ...



Thee is nothing worse than a pretender.


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## Paul Essien (Jul 23, 2017)

Muhammed said:


> What sort of "obstacles" are you speaking of?


We live in a system of global system of racism -white supremacy and that system is global. And there is not one country, one blade of grass, one molecule of air you can point to, that has not been affected by the system of racism - white supremacy

The obstacles that you ask 4, are the system of racism-white supremacy. Racism is an institutional arrangement, maintained by policies, practices and procedures, both formal and informal, in which some persons typically have more or less opportunity than others, and in which such persons receive better or worse treatment than others, because of their respective racial identities. 

Additionally, institutional racism involves denying persons opportunities, rewards, or various benefits on the basis of race, to which those individuals are otherwise entitled. In short, racism is a system of inequality, based on race.

Those are the obstacles


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## Paul Essien (Jul 23, 2017)

Godboy said:


> Violence is always the answer with you guys and then you wonder why no one trusts you; why you cant get a cab, why youre watched in stores, why people avoid you in public, etc. You guys confuse the common sense of non-blacks, as racism. Your reputation is awful, deservedly.
> 
> The black community has a lot of growing up to do.


So are you saying white people are less violent than black people

Is that your claim ?

Just need you need to be clear on that.


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## Godboy (Jul 23, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > Violence is always the answer with you guys and then you wonder why no one trusts you; why you cant get a cab, why youre watched in stores, why people avoid you in public, etc. You guys confuse the common sense of non-blacks, as racism. Your reputation is awful, deservedly.
> ...


What im saying is, white neighborhoods are WAAAAYYYYYYY safer than black neighborhoods. White people dont go around hitting each other all the time. We arent watched in our stores, because we dont steal from them. Ive never heard of a carjacking in my neighborhood, or even a murder. I leave my car unlocked every night, as well as the front door to my house. 

Yes, white citizens are way less violent.


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## Godboy (Jul 23, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


You think a lot of stupid things. What you _think _is irrelevant. Facts are all that matter.


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## Paul Essien (Jul 23, 2017)

Correll said:


> So, decades of supporting civil rights counts for nothing because they are not as quite as hip as the kids? Supposedly.
> 
> I think it is time to ask, will it EVER BE ENOUGH?


Even the devil does good

Rights n laws are only strong as they are enforced. If I stick a knife in your back, and pull it out a millimeter, that does not mean I'm doing you any favours, The knife is still in your back.

When my father used 2 tell me 2 chop some wood. I used 2 run back in n say "Look at how much wood I've chopped" n he used 2 say "Is the job done yet ?" and I'd say "No" and he'd say "Well come back to me when the job is done"

And that's my answer to anyone who wants to get in my face about what whites have done to solve racism "Come back to me when the job is done"

*You don't get an A for effort*


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## Godboy (Jul 23, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > So, decades of supporting civil rights counts for nothing because they are not as quite as hip as the kids? Supposedly.
> ...


Oh, is there something you need US to do for YOU? How about you guys behave like everyone else and get your shit together?


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## Correll (Jul 23, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > John Shaw said:
> ...




Says the black academic who pretends to not understand per capita.


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## Correll (Jul 23, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > So, decades of supporting civil rights counts for nothing because they are not as quite as hip as the kids? Supposedly.
> ...




Actually, it seems we don't get shit for decades of hard work and massive sacrifice. 


IMO, this shows that the dream of a diverse multicultural society has failed.


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## DarkFury (Jul 23, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > So, decades of supporting civil rights counts for nothing because they are not as quite as hip as the kids? Supposedly.
> ...


*The job is done! Shit stain did it for you. And my guess is that you will not see another colored president for at least 50 years because of how poorly shit stain did!*


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## beagle9 (Jul 23, 2017)

Godboy said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > The thing is that whites have more violence and crime coming from their community. /QUOTE]
> ...


. Good point... Place neighborhood or community against neighborhood or community in stats, and then see what the stats show.  I know that the reality on the ground hasn't reflected the peacefulness that IM2 tries to implicate using broader numbers in which include many non-associated factors that skew the results.  Chicago is the worst senario, but the problem has been high in the poorest neighborhoods or communities, and of course IM2 will say that these are reservations in which the poor have been sent to kill off one another or die due to poor Healthcare choices, lack of job opportunity or availability in these areas as a result of white power. I remember when many whites were poor as dirt back in the day, and the middle to rich folk were few and far between. Was it that there was less violence among white poor communities, because those communities weren't poor because of being made poor by another group or class of people in the country at the time, and so a rebellion or blame wasn't the excuse to be used by those who were poor in these communities at the time ??

Otherwise
was it not the case that when large groups are poor, and then concentrated into poor communities, that they were poor because another had held them back or was it just a question of resources, resource management, and not having an availability to modern technology or resources that would become tools to increase ones ability to move forward during times of poverty in the United States of America ??

What
causes a poor people to be peaceful, and another poor people to be violent or rebellious as a community ?? Now with all this said, if a community doesn't address the problem properly and peacefully in the generation being dealt with, then it will be that attempting to blame a future generation is unjust and wrong, because the statute of moral limitations had past.


Time to
 figure out how to move ahead, and to address the woe is me factor after all that has been done over the years to help out.  Maybe help should come in the form of access to mental rehibilitation funds for treating the mentally depressed and left behind in society today. Hmm. The citizen would have to appear before a team who would evaluate the mental condition of the individual, and then apply a specific treatment for the condition. Hmm.


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## Paul Essien (Jul 23, 2017)

Godboy said:


> What im saying is, white neighborhoods are WAAAAYYYYYYY safer than black neighborhoods.


There are three ways to make a living. 

1. Work 
2. Benefit (Welfare)
3. Steal

So in poor black areas Work and welfare is tightened and wherever large numbers of Black people live, wealth, investments, subsidies and education, are pulled out. While off licences (liquor stores) gambling, drugs, weapons are allowed free rein. 

The result is an upswing in black crime as well as an increase in jail and prison expansion. Laws are enacted to hire more police and guards, and to expand existing prison institutions. 

Blacks in prison are removed the labour force. Plus the prison system provides jobs for whites as officers, counsellors, medical personnel, teachers, plumbers, dieticians, electricians, construction workers, probation officers and social workers. 

And all this is explained away that Blacks are just sub-human and beast-like creatures with low IQ’s who (despite the goodness of Whites ) just can’t seem to do any better. Endless stats about black crime are gleefully soaked up by whites who already have pre-conceived notions about blacks.

So it's not even racism anymore, just hard-headedness

 What you forget is that the police are not all that interested in protecting the lives and property of poor black people. Not as interested as they are in protecting rich white people or even not-all-that-rich white people. They will protect white foreigners over black Americans.

When you see buildings and houses falling apart in black ghettos u think it is because “blacks do not take care of their neighbourhoods”. 

What you do not know is that it you can't get a bank loan or insurance for property in a place like that (Because of the system of racism-white supremacy) the banks and insurance companies redline black ghettos, refusing to put much money there. You might think they are just being hardheaded businessmen. That would be understandable. But no, it goes beyond that into racism.

Government policies after the Second World War made it easier to get money to build a house in the suburbs than to repair an old house in the city. That is part of why so much of America’s cities began to fall apart. And that was just when blacks began moving to the big cities like New York and Chicago in huge numbers. And just when most whites left those cities – white flight*.*

This is how your argument seems to me: whites leave the inner city and let it fall to pieces and then they blame the consequences of that – crime, dropout rates and so on – as an excuse for letting it fall to pieces.

Bear in mind whites fled long, long before crime was any kind of issue. They did not leave because crime rates rose – they left because they did not want to live with blacks. It has nothing to do with a close reading of police reports and everything to do with how whites think of blacks.

But you don’t see the black mothers trying to work two jobs to support their kids, without childcare, without adequate health care, having to choose between buying them clothes for school or paying a heating bill. 

You don’t see the blk kids who persevere against all odds, going to schools to learn and finding not enough textbooks, or buildings that are crumbling, and yet they still show up every day, hoping to fill their minds with knowledge.

You don’t see the blk elderly women in public housing who look out for everyone’s children, whether or not they are their own, because they see them as a treasure and vital resource in the community. 

You don’t see the blk ministers who run day care programs, and job training programs, and whose churches are involved in rehabilitating housing for low-income families but the media does not report on that. 

Nope.  You only see the black areas on the news, because the news (which is part of the system of racism) only comes in when someone get's blasted

Plus compared to most places on earth today, violent crime in the US is relatively minor. From an economic perspective, its effect on the US economy today is negligible. 

Not to mention that suburban life itself is an unnatural form of social organization from a human perspective. Suburbs represent the death of community, with each nuclear family retreating into its individual oasis. Children grow up in a relative social vacuum. Many of the pathologies we see in today’s youth — the school shootings, the “emo” culture, cutting, eating disorders are related to the social isolation imposed on young people by the suburban lifestyle.

The suburban lifestyle consumes a high level of natural resources to sustain an individual life. Petroleum to fuel not only the high level of automobile use, but also to supply utilities, water and sewer service to a large number of small individual users. Paving, repairing, plowing and maintaining miles and miles of roadway used by few users. 

All down to the system of racism

As we pass the point of peak oil and the natural cycle of supply and demand is driving up the price of petroleum, millions of Americans are feeling the sting of the suburban lifestyle, at the gas pump and on their utility bill. 

Any engineer who studies these issues will tell you that the most efficient social structure, from the perspective of energy use, is dense urban development. 

However, in America, the number of Americans inhabiting suburbs is so large, the infrastructure that has been built to support the suburbs so vast, that they simply lack the ability, from an economic perspective, to effect any sort of mass movement of populace from the suburbs into the cities.


Godboy said:


> White people dont go around hitting each other all the time.


Really ?

Let’s be clear.

You have never been attacked by a black person
You have never been evicted by a black person
You have never had your security deposit ripped off by a black landlord
You have never had a black person deny your child the college of her choice
And you've never heard a black person say, "We're going to eliminate 10,000 jobs here - have a nice day!"

Every mean word, every cruel act, every bit of pain and suffering in ur life has had a white face attached to it. 

Tell me when I'm lying

I look around at the world I live in it's not black people who have made this planet such a pitiful place.

Who Built The H-Bomb? 
Who gave us the black plague? A white guy. 
Who invented PBC, PVC, PBB, and a host of chemicals that are killing us? White guys. 
Who has started every war America has been in? White men. 
Who invented the punchcard ballot? A white man. 
The Holocaust? That guy really gave white people a bad name. 
Stalin ? Killed millions of his own men
But in your world.


Godboy said:


> White people dont go around hitting each other all the time.


US companies laid off more than 900,000 people in 2018. Who ordered the lay-offs? White CEOs. 

You name the problem, the disease, the human suffering, or the abject misery visited upon millions, and I'll bet you 10 bucks I can put a white face on it faster than you can name the members of the spice girls. 


Godboy said:


> We arent watched in our stores, because we don’t steal from them.


Bernie Madoff (a white man) got caught stealing 50 000 000 000 dollars. The fact that you probably have not heard of him is telling.

Can you imagine a black man stealing 50 billion dollars and not heard of him ?

See when black people do something bad everyone get's to hear about it.

Now, I would like you to show me a single black american embezzler who has stolen by fraud lets say at least 100 million dollars.

But to you robbing some 7-11 and getting a few 100 bucks or whatever is the ultimate evil act. See I’m pretty certain Bernie Madoff would not rob in stores but he robs in others ways. 

 It's also good to remember that one Bernie Madoff can actually put whole towns out of business, with all its jobs and houses and population, black or white. And they have done so. 

*Street crime is bad and it should be dealt with*

But at the same time one has to remember the really big players out there. 

As for black people being _o, so_ violent, stories of black-on-white crime spread faster and farther – from person to person and through the news – because they seem more terrible. Not because they are more common. Hardly.

The higher black crime rate does not make life more dangerous for whites. That is because most of it is black-on-black. While there certainly are blacks who harm whites, overall the biggest threat to white people are other white people.

The belief that blacks commit most of the crime makes whites feel safer: they can avoid most crime by moving away from blacks. Except that it is not true: whites commit most of the crime – something that is lost sight of in all this talk about the black crime rate. So the sense of security is a false one.

Further, the stereotypes make crime into a race issue, which means crime is not fought intelligently. Instead we get stuff like racial profiling and making it hard for those with a felony conviction to make an honest living.


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## DarkFury (Jul 23, 2017)

*Welfare is not making money boy! Welfare is being a low life sucking leech on the people who do work.
Stealing is not making money coon breath! It's stealing from people who earned those items by working.
Fuck you are ignorant.*


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## Correll (Jul 23, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > What im saying is, white neighborhoods are WAAAAYYYYYYY safer than black neighborhoods.
> ...



I drive an average of 45 minutes to get to my job.

A white buddy of mine is too poor for a car and lost his license anyways takes two buses.


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## beagle9 (Jul 23, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > What im saying is, white neighborhoods are WAAAAYYYYYYY safer than black neighborhoods.
> ...


. Good grief.. You act as if the black community has no voice, and that it doesn't vote or it has no representation. So what you are saying is that the Demon-crats had decieved you for all these years ?? Good, we are making progress now. Anymore testimony you want to give ?


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## beagle9 (Jul 23, 2017)

Correll said:


> Paul Essien said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...


. Better keep an eye on that white buddy, because by IM2's thinking he should be ready to explode by now. Oh wait. Hmm.


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## beagle9 (Jul 23, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > What im saying is, white neighborhoods are WAAAAYYYYYYY safer than black neighborhoods.
> ...


. It's very doubtful that people want to read a book on this site.. Just sayin.


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## Paul Essien (Jul 23, 2017)

beagle9 said:


> Good grief.. You act as if the black community has no voice, and that it doesn't vote or it has no representation. So what you are saying is that the Demon-crats had decieved you for all these years ?? Good, we are making progress now.


People in prison have a voice 2 a point. But they still understand that their voice is dominated by the prison system. But the fact is

Less than 22% of the world is white.
Less than 11% of the world is white and male.
Less than 2.3% of the world is white, male and speaks English
Yet they run the BBC, CNN, the _New York Times_, Harvard, Oxford and Cambridge. They write most of the Hollywood films and Wikipedia articles and schoolbooks .They own BET. English-speaking white men own and run nearly all the main bits of the Vast Talking Machine. 

Not that English-speaking white men are always wrong or always agree among themselves. But when they do generally agree on something but are wrong about it, it is very hard to set it right.

For example, things like stereotypes about Africa or about blacks become very hard to shake. White men tell the world to think their way and see the world through their eyes. They told you how to think. The white English speaking male POV is often taken as THE truth. It is extremely difficult, to the point of impossible, to question it, let alone offer another view of the issue.


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## beagle9 (Jul 23, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Good grief.. You act as if the black community has no voice, and that it doesn't vote or it has no representation. So what you are saying is that the Demon-crats had decieved you for all these years ?? Good, we are making progress now.
> ...


. So your idea is that blacks somehow should become a majority in this nation, and this so the white man can be removed from the power structure eventually ??  Wasn't that the agenda of the Obama administration for the black race when he said today this nation will under go a fundemental transformation ?? And when his wife made the racist statement that his being elected was the first time she was proud of her country ???


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## beagle9 (Jul 23, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Good grief.. You act as if the black community has no voice, and that it doesn't vote or it has no representation. So what you are saying is that the Demon-crats had decieved you for all these years ?? Good, we are making progress now.
> ...


. Ever thought of liberating Africa, and to do what McArthur promised the Philippines when he said he would return ? McArthur made good on that promise, and was triumphant in his words to free the people of the Philippines. Why is it that the identifying Africans first, and then American's second, don't have the liberation of their so called mother land in their sights ?? What is really going on here ?? Is it that some blacks see themselves as Africans who are here, and they are or want to attempt a transformation of America into an African state or country ??


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## DarkFury (Jul 23, 2017)

IM2 said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


*Putting you on ignore guno!*


----------



## IM2 (Jul 24, 2017)

DarkFury said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
> ...



So ignore this, the next overtly racist post you make and every one after that will be reported.


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## ptbw forever (Jul 28, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Good grief.. You act as if the black community has no voice, and that it doesn't vote or it has no representation. So what you are saying is that the Demon-crats had decieved you for all these years ?? Good, we are making progress now.
> ...


The BBC, CNN, NYT etc are all explicitly anti-white organizations that are entirely responsible for the racist stereotypes against white rural and Christian people which NO ONE even tries to get rid of.

Black people control EVERYTHING in Africa and you want to bitch about white people actually controlling something in their indigenous European homelands....


----------



## ptbw forever (Jul 28, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> Muhammed said:
> 
> 
> > What sort of "obstacles" are you speaking of?
> ...


White people are treated WORSE than black people by the system, idiot.

Every institution literally wants to kill white people off and pretend like we never existed.

The SYSTEM is the reason why black people can burn down Ferguson, Baltimore etc and still be considered not only sane, but righteous; while white people can't even yell at their own federal representatives without a bitch like Nancy Pelosi(Speaker of the House at the time) comparing them to rioters.

The SYSTEM is the reason why BLM can have several openly racist chapters all over the western world that preach about the killing of law enforcement, but the Tea Party just has to exist as a mostly white group in order to be treated like and compared to a lynch mob.

The SYSTEM is the reason the UN literally interferes  with US elections to make sure your privileged ass isn't being prevented from voting, but yet does nothing as a defenseless white population in South Africa is being slaughtered wholesale in easily one of the most racist nations to ever exist.


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## IM2 (Jul 28, 2017)

ptbw forever said:


> Paul Essien said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



Blacks don't control everything in Africa. You are an idiot here talking about white genocide. You have no credibility.


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## IM2 (Jul 28, 2017)

ptbw forever said:


> Paul Essien said:
> 
> 
> > Muhammed said:
> ...



This is pure idiocy.


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## ptbw forever (Jul 28, 2017)

IM2 said:


> ptbw forever said:
> 
> 
> > Paul Essien said:
> ...


You are an idiot here talking about "systemic racism" and "white privilege" when white people are a tiny, shrinking, aging and largely defenseless minority on the world stage.

You are not even remotely in my league.


----------



## ptbw forever (Jul 28, 2017)

IM2 said:


> ptbw forever said:
> 
> 
> > Paul Essien said:
> ...


It is pure facts.

Everything I said there can be easily verified.


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## Muhammed (Jul 28, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> Muhammed said:
> 
> 
> > What sort of "obstacles" are you speaking of?
> ...


Those "obstacles" are not real. They are figments of your imagination.


----------



## bgrouse (Jul 28, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> I know white people would be basically to sh*t scared to say anything to a black man’s face. If a white man was to say anything to me, that would not end well for that white man. I wouldn’t just punch him in the face….I think you know where I’m coming from.


That's why they're suspicious around you. Because you'd respond violently to a white man saying anything to you.





> But most white people are blind to their racism, but many of those who are not keep quiet because they must get along with other white people, most of whom are racist and who can make things ugly for anyone who calls them on it.
> 
> You do not have to be a rich moneyman to have an effect on thousands of people. Teachers, doctors, policemen and newspaper editors all do. Nor do you have to be rich to benefit from white racism. Working-class whites, for example, live longer and have more wealth than even middle-class blacks.



If blacks like you attack people for "saying something," no wonder they don't live very long lives.


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## bgrouse (Jul 28, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> We live in a system of global system of racism -white supremacy and that system is global. And there is not one country, one blade of grass, one molecule of air you can point to, that has not been affected by the system of racism - white supremacy


So why can't you go to a black-run country and live there? Where are all the blacks running away from the USA and Western Europe to go live in a black-run African country? Instead they're drowning to get to Europe.


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## bgrouse (Jul 28, 2017)

Muhammed said:


> Paul Essien said:
> 
> 
> > Muhammed said:
> ...


The "obstacle" is his refusal to accept any responsibility for any of his actions. He can blame whitey all he wants. He's the one who has to live in the negrohood and deal with the violence.


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## flacaltenn (Jul 28, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> But most whites do nothing in the face of racism. Most don’t speak up, don’t talk back, don’t challenge family, friends, colleagues.



Besides that being so wrong and stupid. To assert that "most whites do nothing in the face of racism". Or speak up or talk back or challenge. That's WHY USMB allows these frank open confrontations. 

But here's the deal -- The discussion and YOUR success at it depends on honesty and openness. I TRIED to engage and got labeled a racist by your pal.. Who has by NOW -- almost single-handledly ALIENATED and LOST the support of those who DO stuff in the face of racism. Who DO speak up, challenge and bark back. 

But damn.  If your radicalized rhetoric is designed to ALIENATE every fucking moderate SUPPORTER -- like the 2 of you have done -- in a matter of days..  Then you guys are stuck with folks you need to confront. With NO help and no Back-Up...  

Your odds at SUCCESS -- would be astronomically greater if you didn't pull the racist card on anyone that dares to have an honest debate of your assertions. AINT" NOBODY -- NO COLOR gonna stick around for that.


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## bgrouse (Jul 28, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Blacks don't control everything in Africa. You are an idiot here talking about white genocide. You have no credibility.


You're actually correct about this point. Blacks indeed do not control everything in Africa. Many countries in Africa still have a considerable white population, which explains why they haven't all gone down the toilet. But the trend is clear: as black populations increase and white numbers fall, the country goes to hell. Blacks just can't run a modern nation/government. Can you name one good black nation?


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## Paul Essien (Jul 29, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> Paul Essien said:
> 
> 
> > We live in a system of global system of racism -white supremacy and that system is global. And there is not one country, one blade of grass, one molecule of air you can point to, that has not been affected by the system of racism - white supremacy
> ...


There is no such thing as a black run country that is not subject to white supremacy. And if I'm wrong. Name one ? The white supremacist have Africa and the Carribbean in their pocket. We see the prime example of this with Robert Mugabe who tried to return the land back to the natives. There is no were to go on this planet. We are totally and completly dominated by white supremacy on this plane.

Now do not take that to mean that white people are better. That means they are in a superior position. That is all it means and they use that position to enforce there white supremacy.


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## Paul Essien (Jul 29, 2017)

flacaltenn said:


> Besides that being so wrong and stupid. To assert that "most whites do nothing in the face of racism". Or speak up or talk back or challenge. That's WHY USMB allows these frank open confrontations.
> 
> But here's the deal -- The discussion and YOUR success at it depends on honesty and openness. I TRIED to engage and got labeled a racist by your pal.. Who has by NOW -- almost single-handledly ALIENATED and LOST the support of those who DO stuff in the face of racism. Who DO speak up, challenge and bark back.
> 
> But damn.  If your radicalized rhetoric is designed to ALIENATE every fucking moderate SUPPORTER -- like the 2 of you have done -- in a matter of days..  Then you guys are stuck with folks you need to confront. With NO help and no Back-Up...


Most whites do nothing in the face of racism. It's also depends on what you think racism is. At school there was this teacher in class and we are messing about in the class (Nothing to serious) and this teacher lost it and shouted "Weill you godamm n*ggers be quiet.....f*king monkeys"

There was a big thing about it. The Headmaster / Principal did a speech about the fact "The schol treats everyone the same  regardless of race, colour, creed....etc"

The teacher was sacked (Though after I left school I had heard that he got a job somewhere else pretty quick and that's telling, because the hiring school knew what he did but still took him on and I assume our school that him fired must have given him a good recommendation which shows that even when whites screw that have a system that protects them)

But although that cartoonish type over racism was banned (And once again after left school I found out that language like the teacher said was common place in the staff room) racism as a system was in full effect. The blk kids were always punished more harshly than the white kids for minor behavioral infractions, even though we committed those infractions no more frequently than whites did. 

Most all the black children were tracked into basic and remedial level classes, while most all the white kids were tracked into advanced and honors classes, even though they showed no more promise (and sometimes quite a bit less) than us. 

And of course whites used to cover their asses by having one blk kid in the top Maths class and use him to say "Well it's not racism, look at Josh"

So although overt public racism was not allowed but racism as a functioning social reality was in place. 

You don't get an A effort. Come back to me when the job is done.



flacaltenn said:


> Your odds at SUCCESS -- would be astronomically greater if you didn't pull the racist card on anyone that dares to have an honest debate of your assertions. AINT" NOBODY -- NO COLOR gonna stick around for that.


The whole deck is racism. No such thing as the race card

What's to debate ?

On this forum racial debates are just another derailing tactic. So offline If I come across a white person who wants to argue, cloud the issue, split hairs, etc., then I’ve reached the end of the conversation – period. It’s not my job to “convert” people.  You have to choose to either be a decent human being or to support the racist colonialist system that exist..


----------



## beagle9 (Jul 29, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> Muhammed said:
> 
> 
> > Paul Essien said:
> ...


. He's saying that it's you that keeps him in the hood or hoodie.


----------



## beagle9 (Jul 29, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > Paul Essien said:
> ...


. And you want that reversed ??  Now how do you suppose that you are going to accomplish that since Obama failed you here as a start ??


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## beagle9 (Jul 29, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Besides that being so wrong and stupid. To assert that "most whites do nothing in the face of racism". Or speak up or talk back or challenge. That's WHY USMB allows these frank open confrontations.
> ...


. You also must choose to be a decent human being, and then you will get responded to by others or by those in your circles of friends or by your associates in the same way. Conflicts or confusions can and will always arise between people who are not culturally in tune with one another's belief systems, in tune with the standards in which they keep, in tune with the skill sets, characters or languages in which one may have, and even with the bad habits or hygiene in which one keeps. Never will people just look at the color of a person, and then discard that person based upon their skin color. It's ok to be suspicious of anyone due to the past groupings of people that engaged in group think that was wrong, and their actions showed that wrong, but most these days have risen above that bullcrap, and they are smart enough to know when a person is trying to game the system or not.  The problem these days is also the fact that people have gotten way smarter than they were in the past, and they don't fall for the bullcrap anymore. White guilt is coming to an end, and victimhood or the victim card is also coming to an end, so best get ready for it or be left behind.


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## Unkotare (Jul 29, 2017)

It's clear from threads like this that some people (on all sides) don't want anything to get better. In fact, they fear improvement more than anything as it represents an existential threat to their entire identity.


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## beagle9 (Jul 29, 2017)

Unkotare said:


> It's clear from threads like this that some people (on all sides) don't want anything to get better. In fact, they fear improvement more than anything as it represents an existential threat to their entire identity.


. People can have individual or group identities, but when those identities clash is when the trouble begins. Taking personal responsibility is the biggest issue facing those who love to blame others, but so far that appears to be the biggest obstacle we as a nation face in the social experiment that has become America today.


----------



## bgrouse (Jul 29, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > Paul Essien said:
> ...


Could you elaborate by what you mean when you say "not subject to white supremacy?" I vaguely remember doing some research and seeing numerous countries where blacks are the majority, in addition to being in government, but before I get some actual countries, I'd like to know what you mean when you say that.


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## Paul Essien (Jul 30, 2017)

beagle9 said:


> And you want that reversed ??  Now how do you suppose that you are going to accomplish that since Obama failed you here as a start ??


Obama was the best thing EVER for white people and the white supremacists. 

Power isn’t given, it must be taken. So knowing that we also know President Obama being “given” a powerful position by the most powerful white people in the U.S actually means he has zero power at all.

How do we know this is true?

By the lack of respect he receives from people with less powerful positions, like the white male federal judge who said publicly that President Obama’s mother had sex with a dog and that’s how he was born

and the white female Jan Brewer, Arizona governor, who wagged her finger in his face in full view of TV cameras

and the white male civil servant cop who was “invited” to the White House after he arrested Harvard Professor Gates (a black male) in his own home — as a way of President Obama apologizing for saying “…the police behaved stupidly…”

Yet when Vice-Prez Cheney (a white male) shot a man in the face in a hunting accident, the man (with less power) apologized to Cheney for “…causing his family so much trouble…”

That’s what REAL power looks like.

We KNOW that President Obama didn’t come from us and wasn’t raised by us, which means the first thing we should have asked is who sent him to represent us?

Why would we compare him to Martin Luther King and Malcolm X both of who came from the streets, from the BLACK grassroots and were selected BY black people — and who were ultimately punished (murdered) — NOT rewarded with cushy book deals, Harvard degrees and high political offices.

Two thoughts that should be axioms in the minds of all black people:

#1 — No one rewards their enemies

#2 — Any oppressed people that allow their oppressors to choose their leaders will remain oppressed

We also KNOW that no black person in the U.S. is giving orders to the most powerful whites. So why would the WHITE HOUSE be an exception??

We know that no group that is smart enough to be in power is stupid enough to educate, nominate, and finance someone who wants to destroy or diminish their power

“First black” symbols hide the reality of the so-called civil rights clock turning backwards in the form of

sky-high black unemployment

“gentrification” (racial dislocation) to move blacks out of prime inner-city areas

more black schools closing

more black people incarcerated

increasing racism in the workplace, and in the media


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## Mudda (Jul 30, 2017)

Whites know blacks well enough to move away from them.


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## Paul Essien (Jul 30, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> Could you elaborate by what you mean when you say "not subject to white supremacy?".


It means the white supremacy control Africa. They controls the minerals, the oil. the land.

For example ? The mobile phone or laptop you anyone reading this is using needs a mineral called Congolese coltan or it will not work.

Who do you think controls the Coltan deposits in the Congo ? The white supremacist.

That chocolate bar you are eating probably came from cocoa beans picked by black hands as the Ivory Coast is the world biggest supplier of cocoa

Now when they talk global cocoa prices. Do you think black people are at the table ? The white supremacist control it all. They control the gold in south Africa. They control the blood diamonds in Sierra Leone.

The white supremacists are the ones who put corrupt leaders in powers in Africa. The white supremacists are the ones who poison the water supply causing droughts in Africa. The white supremacists are the ones who raise the debt if any Africa. The white supremacists are the ones who are into organ trafficking. 

I could go on. But I think you get the jist.


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## beagle9 (Jul 30, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > And you want that reversed ??  Now how do you suppose that you are going to accomplish that since Obama failed you here as a start ??
> ...


. All this you wrote because Obama failed ?? Seems that your group had to much confidence in the "man", and now you are homeless in so many words ??  Good grief.  So where do you go from here ??


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## bgrouse (Jul 30, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > Could you elaborate by what you mean when you say "not subject to white supremacy?".
> ...


So who controls the Coltan in the Congo? Who owns all of the land suitable for growing cocoa beans in the Ivory Coast? I clicked on the first link and didn't find any references to "white supremacists."


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## danielpalos (Jul 30, 2017)

Free full body massage for black chics, to get to know each other better in modern times!


----------



## MikeK (Aug 1, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> [...]
> 
> Both are suspicious of the other. The media likes to make it seem like it's white peoples' fault, that we don't listen. But from everything I've read and heard, black folks seem to make plenty of assumptions about us as well, many of which are just downright ridiculous.


So true.

I often wonder what Black/White relations in America would be like were it not for the toxic effect of the slavery era.  But it's too late for more than wondering about it.  The damage is done.  The scars, the distrust and suspicions are not, for the most part, reparable.

[...]





> Think you know white people, huh? Well ask your question, or state your supposition, and find out. I'll give you as straight an answer as I can, as long as it's not something lame like, "Why do you smell like wet dogs?" Dude; 1. I don't know, and 2. That's kinda rude.


Actually the issue of offensively disparate ethnic body odors is neither lame nor rude but is academically significant.

Because of the difference in a specific biochemical (pheromone) composition body odor is but one of the subtle characteristics which distinguish the various human sub-species _(races)_.  So it is perfectly natural for Blacks to find the  body odor of Whites repulsive, and vice/versa.


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## MikeK (Aug 1, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> [...]
> 
> You don’t need to tell me how white people act when black people are not around. We know dude....We know.
> 
> [...]


If you're not around -- how do you know?  Or are we talking about one of the assumptions you say you don't harbor?


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## MikeK (Aug 1, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> [...]
> 
> I know white people would be basically to sh*t scared to say anything to a black man’s face. If a white man was to say anything to me, that would not end well for that white man. I wouldn’t just punch him in the face….I think you know where I’m coming from.
> 
> [...]


Wow!  For someone who claims to make no assumptions it seems you've made a rather outstanding assumption in the above statement.

So, If a White man was to say anything (presumably offensive) to you it wouldn't end well for him and you wouldn't just punch him in the face.  That is not only an angry declaration, unless your contempt for White men is so complete you believe yourself to be capable of physically punishing each, every, and all of them at your will. 

I wonder if it's ever occurred to you that some Whites are reluctant to speak their minds in the presence of Blacks because, rather than being fearful, they either don't wish to injure feelings or they simply wish to avoid an ugly, uncivilized confrontation.


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## bgrouse (Aug 1, 2017)

MikeK said:


> Paul Essien said:
> 
> 
> > [...]
> ...


He knows white people talk about his violent nature when he's not around, apparently.


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## MikeK (Aug 1, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> [...]
> 
> But most white people are blind to their racism, but many of those who are not keep quiet because they must get along with other white people, most of whom are racist and who can make things ugly for anyone who calls them on it.
> 
> [...]


Having read your messages I'm convinced you are intelligent.  So I wonder if you will agree that the word, _racism,_ is broadly over-used and that it means different things to different people.  And I'd like you to tell me what that word means to you.  I'm asking this question because I honestly don't know if those Blacks who call me a _racist_ are right or not.  

Thanks in advance for an honest reply.


----------



## MikeK (Aug 1, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> [...]
> 
> White ppl claim they are victims of all kinds of things: taxes, big government, immigrants, reverse discrimination, secular humanism, gay marriage, “radical Islam,” you name it. Whites loves victimhood, so long as they’re the ones who get to choose which victims count
> 
> [...]


I'm White and while I complain about taxes as much as anyone who works for a living and/or owns some real property is inclined to do I don't feel that I'm a _victim_ of taxes.  Nor have I ever heard another White person realistically complain that he or she is a _victim_ of taxation.

I also complain about the occasional failings of big government (don't you?) as many other Whites I know do.  But I don't believe that means we feel we are _victims_ of it.

As for _immigrants,_ I've never been victimized by one, nor do I know any other White person who has, but I have read and heard of some Whites, mainly in the Southwest, who have been robbed, raped and/or beaten by Mexican illegals.  So I'm sure there are some Whites who quite justifiably feel they have been victims of immigrants, but certainly not White people in general.

But because of what presently is happening in Europe and Scandinavia I am extremely concerned about existing and potential problems with the flood of Middle-Eastern, Indonesian, Asian and African "refugees," the majority of whom may properly be called _invaders_ and should be removed asap by any means necessary.   These people represent a demonstrated and self-professed lethal threat to the existing social structure of White Western culture and they should be dealt with accordingly.

I've never been affected in any way by "reverse discrimination," but I have read about some Whites who have, mainly by _Affirmative Action_ hiring practices, civil service test scores, and the like, all of which are ultimately counterproductive to the overall quality of American society.  So I can't blame anyone for complaining about it.

I personally wouldn't care if some people want to marry farm animals, and I don't believe that most White people are really concerned about gay marriage.  What we have seen with regard to that is nothing more or less than public _shock_ to its sudden popular revelation.  But I certainly don't believe White people feel _victimized_ by it.

As for _secular humanism;_ why in the world would you think anyone, Black or White, would feel _victimized_ by that?

As for _radical Islam,_ I think you'd be right in saying Whites (but not Blacks) certainly feel _threatened_ but as of now not at all _victimized_ by it.  But unless something is done very soon to reverse what we see happening in Europe and Scandinavia I have no doubt that a lot of American Whites will be every bit as victimized as are an increasing number of Europeans, Swedes, and Norwegians.

Bottom line:  it's clear to me that you don't know as much about White people as you seem to think you do.  It appears that you see what you _want_ to see rather than what really is there.


----------



## deanrd (Aug 1, 2017)

John Shaw said:


> Though they think they do.
> 
> Both are suspicious of the other. The media likes to make it seem like it's white peoples' fault, that we don't listen. But from everything I've read and heard, black folks seem to make plenty of assumptions about us as well, many of which are just downright ridiculous.
> 
> ...


Middle class whites don't get lumped in with rich whites.

Rich whites are the GOP elite.  They run the party.

Middle class and poor whites are the minions.


----------



## MikeK (Aug 1, 2017)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> I'm a Millennial, and I'm more racist than my parents.
> 
> Perhaps it's because I'm of a Polish heritage?
> 
> ...


I think what is going on in Western Europe is having a powerful effect on the attitude of most European Whites where non-Whites, especially Middle-Eastern and African are concerned.  I won't be surprised if the veritable _invasion_ of Germany doesn't provoke a dramatic rise in neo-Nazi activity.

Aside from that I must extend my strongest compliments to the Poles for the anti-immigrant stand they've taken.


----------



## MikeK (Aug 1, 2017)

IM2 said:


> It's funny how you guys think. You want us to ignore racism pretend it no longer exists while you still practice it. We have to have chips on our shoulder but when you guys are expressing all manner of hate and falsehoods about us, you don't have a chip on yours.


If you have been negatively affected by _racism,_ please tell us the specifics.  I'm asking this because I really don't know what the word "racism" means.  I believe it is the most over-used and misunderstood word in the American lexicon and I think it means different things to different people.


----------



## IM2 (Aug 2, 2017)

MikeK said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > It's funny how you guys think. You want us to ignore racism pretend it no longer exists while you still practice it. We have to have chips on our shoulder but when you guys are expressing all manner of hate and falsehoods about us, you don't have a chip on yours.
> ...



No. What racism has done is documented.You whites are the ones who conflate the word to mean anything you want it to mean.


----------



## flacaltenn (Aug 2, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > Paul Essien said:
> ...



How far back in history are you going to find it? You go back far enough, it was all primitive tribal warfare and chaos and lawlessness. 

I think 20th Century countries around the world shook most of that off. Even the underdeveloped ones. From the Caribbean to Africa..


----------



## IM2 (Aug 2, 2017)

flacaltenn said:


> Paul Essien said:
> 
> 
> > bgrouse said:
> ...



He's gone back as far as he needs to go back. And he is right. No these nations have not shook that off.


----------



## flacaltenn (Aug 2, 2017)

IM2 said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Paul Essien said:
> ...



That's not specific enough to assess the effect today of all that history. Or to measure progress in freedom and equality. Or for THAT matter the progress of the larger package of Civil Liberties. Of which Civil Rights is just a part. 

We were kneeling to Kings 250 years ago in America and living on his land. With not a lot of Civil Liberties. 400 years ago we were mostly STILL vassels and serfs. 

VERY FEW people determined the RULES of the road 300 years ago.


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## IM2 (Aug 2, 2017)

*Effects of colonialism on Africa's past and present*

*The effects of colonialism past and present are visible all over Africa. It is not an overstatement when Edem Kodjo, author of ‘Africa Tomorrow’ describes the condition of African as “torn away from his past, propelled into a universe fashioned from outside that suppresses his values, and dumbfounded by a cultural invasion that marginalises him. The African,... is today the deformed image of others. ”
*
Effects of colonialism on Africa's past and present | Pambazuka News

No these nations have not just mostly shook it off. This was a speech in 2012.

From a paper written on this matter.

*The Impact of Colonialism on African Economic Development*
Joshua Dwayne Settles University of Tennessee - Knoxville

*The imposition of colonialism on Africa altered its history forever. African modes of thought, patterns of cultural development, and ways of life were forever impacted by the change in political structure brought about by 
colonialism. The African economy was significantly changed by the Atlantic slave trade through the process of imperialism and the economic policies that accompanied colonization. Prior to the "Scramble for Africa," or the official 
partition of Africa by the major European nations, African economies were advancing in every area, particularly in the area of trade. The aim of colonialism is to exploit the physical, human, and economic resources of an 
area to benefit the colonizing nation. European powers pursued this goal by encouraging the development of a commodity based trading system, a cash crop agriculture system, and by building a trade network linking the total 
economic output of a region to the demands of the colonizing state. The development of colonialism and the partition of Africa by the European colonial powers arrested the natural development of the African economic system.*

trace.tennessee.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1182&...

Another study done on the issue.

*Effects of Colonization*

*Around the world today, intractable conflict is found in many areas that were once colonized or controlled by Western European or Soviet powers (i.e., Africa, the Balkans, Southeast Asia, the Middle East, South America). The source of many of these protracted conflicts, in large part, lies in past colonial or Soviet policies, and especially those regarding territorial boundaries, the treatment of indigenous populations, the privileging of some groups over others, the uneven distribution of wealth, local governmental infrastructures, and the formation of non-democratic or non-participatory governmental systems. It is therefore essential, if one wants to understand **intractable conflict** and its **causes**, to examine not only the issues and problems of the moment, but also influential historical factors -- most notably, past colonial and Soviet policies -- and their lingering effects.*

Effects of Colonization | Beyond Intractability


----------



## IM2 (Aug 2, 2017)

flacaltenn said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...



Well no, this was not the kings land, it belonged to about 400 tribes or nations that were already here. I was never a vassel or serf.  And if I want to pay how you guys do, you weren't ether. But I'm not going to do that.

So then "we"  is the problem here, you seem to think "we" all have the same history and " we" don't.

Paul was specific enough if you want to recognize this reality.


----------



## Paul Essien (Aug 2, 2017)

MikeK said:


> Wow!  For someone who claims to make no assumptions it seems you've made a rather outstanding assumption in the above statement.
> 
> So, If a White man was to say anything (presumably offensive) to you it wouldn't end well for him and you wouldn't just punch him in the face.  That is not only an angry declaration, unless your contempt for White men is so complete you believe yourself to be capable of physically punishing each, every, and all of them at your will.
> 
> I wonder if it's ever occurred to you that some Whites are reluctant to speak their minds in the presence of Blacks because, rather than being fearful, they either don't wish to injure feelings or they simply wish to avoid an ugly, uncivilized confrontation.


There was a time when whites could say anything black people and they knew black people could not do anything about it. The reason white people do not do it now is simply because the white supremacist is a coward. O sure, they are big and bad when the odds are in their favour. 

But yes, if you were or any white man was to get in my face. You have picked on the wrong black man. In Jujitsu, we have soft hand techniques such as joint locks, which are extremely painful and very effective. 

These can be used as an effective way to stop a white boy who wants to cause trouble and this would happen with no/little residual damage. Since it is a defensive technique and no overt physical moves (like punches) are made, law enforcement would have a very difficult time proving any type of violence occurred.


----------



## Paul Essien (Aug 2, 2017)

MikeK said:


> Having read your messages I'm convinced you are intelligent. So I wonder if you will agree that the word, _racism,_ is broadly over-used and that it means different things to different people. And I'd like you to tell me what that word means to you. I'm asking this question because I honestly don't know if those Blacks who call me a _racist_ are right or not.
> 
> Thanks in advance for an honest reply..


Racism a global system of people who classify themselves as "White" and are dedicated to mistreating/subjugating everyone they classify as not "White" for their (White people's) benefit. 

At its core, White Supremacy is about the White collective's ability to function in an organized, codified manner for the benefit of the entire unit. White people are effective individually because they are effective collectively.


----------



## Paul Essien (Aug 2, 2017)

MikeK said:


> But because of what presently is happening in Europe and Scandinavia I am extremely concerned about existing and potential problems with the flood of Middle-Eastern, Indonesian, Asian and African "refugees," the majority of whom may properly be called _invaders_ and should be removed asap by any means necessary.   These people represent a demonstrated and self-professed lethal threat to the existing social structure of White Western culture and they should be dealt with accordingly.



What do you mean by invaders ?
How should they be removed ?
How do they represent a lethal threat to the existing social structure of White Western culture?
What is white western culture ?


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 2, 2017)

deanrd said:


> John Shaw said:
> 
> 
> > Though they think they do.
> ...





Who do you think runs the DNC, hypocrite?


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 2, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > Wow!  For someone who claims to make no assumptions it seems you've made a rather outstanding assumption in the above statement.
> ...


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope (Aug 2, 2017)

IM2 said:


> *Effects of colonialism on Africa's past and present*
> 
> *The effects of colonialism past and present are visible all over Africa. It is not an overstatement when Edem Kodjo, author of ‘Africa Tomorrow’ describes the condition of African as “torn away from his past, propelled into a universe fashioned from outside that suppresses his values, and dumbfounded by a cultural invasion that marginalises him. The African,... is today the deformed image of others. ”
> *
> ...



The only problem is some Europeans, and Asians who were colonized are doing much better than Africans.


----------



## deanrd (Aug 2, 2017)

Trump's kid gloves are off his tiny hands.  His racist agenda is out.  It can't be denied.  Not any longer.

GOP taking Civil Rights resources and using them to promote discrimination.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 2, 2017)

deanrd said:


> Trump's kid gloves are off his tiny hands.  His racist agenda is out.  It can't be denied.  Not any longer.
> 
> GOP taking Civil Rights resources and using them to promote discrimination.




Liberals never learn. Just as well.


----------



## MikeK (Aug 2, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> What do you mean by invaders ?


Click on the link in my Signature Line (below) and you'll see what I mean in brilliant color.



> How should they be removed ?


By any means necessary.  



> How do they represent a lethal threat to the existing social structure of White Western culture?


Again, go to the link in my Signature Line.  If what you see doesn't answer your question you've been living in a really bad ghetto for far too long. 



> What is white western culture ?


For one thing it is the culture which has provided the highest standard of living for Blacks compared with any other nation in the world.  It's time you acknowledged that.


----------



## flacaltenn (Aug 2, 2017)

IM2 said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



Can't recognize "realities" from folks who can't place times and dates on their claims. OR -- simply don't WANT to discuss at any level other their lecturing others. And why are YOU speaking for Paul anyways? 

Siamese twins or something?  

BTW -- THE KING stole the initial land FROM those tribes and made it his. As I said, 250 years ago -- POWER AND CONTROL was concentrated in VERY few hands. That's why TIME LINES and dates are important...


----------



## ptbw forever (Aug 2, 2017)

IM2 said:


> *Effects of colonialism on Africa's past and present*
> 
> *The effects of colonialism past and present are visible all over Africa. It is not an overstatement when Edem Kodjo, author of ‘Africa Tomorrow’ describes the condition of African as “torn away from his past, propelled into a universe fashioned from outside that suppresses his values, and dumbfounded by a cultural invasion that marginalises him. The African,... is today the deformed image of others. ”
> *
> ...


Some day someone will do research on the effects of colonization on Europe.

Multiculturalism and mass invasions have destroyed the continent.


----------



## ptbw forever (Aug 2, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > Paul Essien said:
> ...


The natives of Southern Africa are not Bantus, moron.

BTW, what about the natives of Europe having their lands stolen by "refugees" and the EU?


----------



## MikeK (Aug 2, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> Racism a global system of people who classify themselves as "White" and are dedicated to mistreating/subjugating everyone they classify as not "White" for their (White people's) benefit.


There was a time when Muslims (then called, _Moslems_) sought to _dominate_ the Western world and did succeed to some extent, during which time their brutal cruelties, their total subjugation and mistreatment of the Western peoples they'd conquered, remain as historical legends and were the motivation for nine Holy Crusades.  So _dominance_ is by no means an exclusively White province.  It is in fact as natural an occurrence as the changing influences of weather and it occurs within the purview of every animal species.  One will always _dominate._

While it may be said that slavery is the embodiment of subjugation and mistreatment it must be noted that slavery in America was not effected by White people, alone.  The Black African slaves who arrived in America were brought here by mainly Arab (Muslim) traders who had purchased them from other Black African tribesmen who had captured and sold their fellow ("brother" and "sister") Blacks into slavery.  But while this does not excuse the cruelty of those White Americans who brutally exploited their captive slaves it must be noted that the practice was limited to a specific region and was denounced by a substantial percentage of the total White American population.  



> At its core, White Supremacy is about the White collective's ability to function in an organized, codified manner for the benefit of the entire unit. White people are effective individually because they are effective collectively.


Can't argue with that.

In anthropological terms this kind of _cooperative efficiency_ is the key to survival of and dominance by any animal species or sub-species.  Right now, in the world of human animals, the White sub-species is being threatened by a non-White sub-species (Muslims, again).  If the Muslims are successful there is sufficient evidence in history to assure you that the "subjugation" and "mistreatment" you've referred to will take on new meaning and will make White people seem like soft and gentle souls by comparison.


----------



## MikeK (Aug 2, 2017)

IM2 said:


> *Effects of colonialism on Africa's past and present*
> 
> *The effects of colonialism past and present are visible all over Africa. It is not an overstatement when Edem Kodjo, author of ‘Africa Tomorrow’ describes the condition of African as “torn away from his past, propelled into a universe fashioned from outside that suppresses his values, and dumbfounded by a cultural invasion that marginalises him. The African,... is today the deformed image of others. ”
> *
> ...


One question:  Considering that conquest and dominance in the animal world is as natural as are wind and tides, why is it these beleaguered Africans never sought to colonize any of the Western or Soviet nations -- or effectively resist being colonized by them?


----------



## IM2 (Aug 2, 2017)

flacaltenn said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...


 
250 years ago was 1760 Flacaltenn.

You refuse to recognize realties while you want to lecture just as much as anyone here. I am offering my opinion just as much as you are. But to you I am lecturing and you are discussing. You know good and well exactly the time frame which was being discussed. But you pull out the same old dumb what time frame are you talking about garbage, because its the only defense you got. We aren't talking about 2,000 BC which you are glad to go back to in order to make some idiotic claim.

Paul was talking about the colonization of Africa and you knew exactly when that was. 250 years ago Africa had sovereign nations and were in charge of them. The place we call America had existing nations in it all with their own boundaries with people in charge. The same goes for South America. So your claim of power and control being concentrated in a few hands is historically incorrect.

During this time every European nation had a king. India had a ruler. Asian nations had rulers. So this notion of power concentrated in the hands of a few is wack when you understand this. England had a large military with weapons of mass destruction for those times and was not unwilling to use those weapons to kill or remove what they needed to in order to get what they wanted. The king did not take anything here. The Native Americans helped the colonists win the revolutionary war. Whites and Native Americans fought or more than 100 years after that and today the Native American tribes officialy are still their own nations who are wards of our government.

So the King never took shit.

I don't speak for Paul. I spoke for myself and I spoke for myself citing what Paul said. Paul spoke for himself quite well and just because you don't like what he said doesn't change the existence of the things he spoke about. You are full of excuses always looking for ways to deny racism. But  you cannot run away from historically documented fact.


----------



## IM2 (Aug 2, 2017)

MikeK said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > *Effects of colonialism on Africa's past and present*
> ...



I don't really think that in the human world conquest and dominance is such a natural thing. Second you must have something of value to offer on order for someone to want to colonize your country. African nations did not need to colonize because resources were plentiful on the continent.


----------



## IM2 (Aug 2, 2017)

MikeK said:


> Paul Essien said:
> 
> 
> > Racism a global system of people who classify themselves as "White" and are dedicated to mistreating/subjugating everyone they classify as not "White" for their (White people's) benefit.
> ...



All this is wrong.


----------



## MikeK (Aug 2, 2017)

IM2 said:


> I don't really think that in the human world conquest and dominance is such a natural thing.


Then why has it been happening throughout history?  How do you think nations are formed?  



> Second you must have something of value to offer on order for someone to want to colonize your country. African nations did not need to colonize because resources were plentiful on the continent.


Yes.  Like selling other Africans as slaves.


----------



## MikeK (Aug 2, 2017)

IM2 said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > Paul Essien said:
> ...


Really, Professor?  Then how about correcting it point by point.  

Or is it all wrong because you don't like it?


----------



## beagle9 (Aug 2, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > Having read your messages I'm convinced you are intelligent. So I wonder if you will agree that the word, _racism,_ is broadly over-used and that it means different things to different people. And I'd like you to tell me what that word means to you. I'm asking this question because I honestly don't know if those Blacks who call me a _racist_ are right or not.
> ...


. Do the blacks at their core want to replace so called white supremacy with black supremacy eventually ???  Do tell how you suppose this will be the case in your near future. Are you creating this supremacy Boogeyman for your way of getting ahead somehow in life by such means ? Was the federal government supposed to be your advocate and strong arm to muscle it all done ? Enough with the stupid racism talk, and tell us how you really feel.


----------



## flacaltenn (Aug 2, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Paul was talking about the colonization of Africa and you knew exactly when that was. 250 years ago Africa had sovereign nations and were in charge of them. The place we call America had existing nations in it all with their own boundaries with people in charge. The same goes for South America. So your claim of power and control being concentrated in a few hands is historically incorrect.



Absolutely not. I AM historically correct. All that Colonization and indigenous abuse in the Caribbean and Africa happened under Monarchies. *Which IS the ultimate form of Power and Authority.* Wasn't until 250 years ago or so that MOST of that started to change. 

It took awhile to dissipate. Some clinging on into the 20th Century. Like Zimbabwe, South Africa, etc. But the French, German, Spanish, Dutch, Portugese,  British Monarchies started to DIE ----- only about 250 years ago.. 

*WHITE people didn't control those Empires. MONARCHS did.* And they did it for political and economic domination reasons. Had more to do with Global hegemony and balance of Euro Power, than it did about benefiting any one particular "white person".  

Just like "white people" didn't BUILD the segregated govt housing post-war in the US. The Federal Govt made those calls. When you discuss what power any "white" person HAD in those episodes, any one or groups of them had VERY LITTLE influence on those outcomes. 

So when you declare the guilt of EVERY White person, you need to realize WHAT POWER they were capable of exerting. AND WHEN they exerted that power..  The role of governments and the evolution of Democracy determined a very key role in systemic abuses that you RIGHTFULLY are angry about. 

Lots of White folks decided to forcibly tear the USA from a Monarchy. For damn good reasons. Just like those Euro African colonies had to do.  Same general trajectory of History for BOTH of us.  The TIMELINE IS important.


----------



## MikeK (Aug 2, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> There was a time when whites could say anything to black people and they knew black people could not do anything about it.



Yes, there was such a time.  But that time is past and the rules that enabled it have been changed -- largely by the efforts of White people.  



> The reason white people do not do it now is simply because the white supremacist is a coward. O sure, they are big and bad when the odds are in their favour.


Did you live through the slavery or Jim Crow eras?  Have you ever been personally oppressed by a White person?  




> But yes, if you were or any white man was to get in my face. You have picked on the wrong black man. In Jujitsu, we have soft hand techniques such as joint locks, which are extremely painful and very effective.
> 
> These can be used as an effective way to stop a white boy who wants to cause trouble and this would happen with no/little residual damage. Since it is a defensive technique and no overt physical moves (like punches) are made, law enforcement would have a very difficult time proving any type of violence occurred.


I really don't know what you mean by, "get in my face," but the bitterness you've expressed here suggests that you spend a lot if time learning ways to hurt Whites without leaving any evidence.  Have you been personally harmed by Whites sufficiently to justify this preoccupation with defensive violence?   Or can it be your anger is vindictive in nature and is rooted in a hatred you harbor for White people because of their real or imagined social _privileges?_ 

Whatever the reason I can say you are the type of Black whom I do my best to avoid any contact with, social or otherwise, because your state of mind produces a subtle, deep, but perceptibly hostile _vibe._


----------



## beagle9 (Aug 2, 2017)

flacaltenn said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Paul was talking about the colonization of Africa and you knew exactly when that was. 250 years ago Africa had sovereign nations and were in charge of them. The place we call America had existing nations in it all with their own boundaries with people in charge. The same goes for South America. So your claim of power and control being concentrated in a few hands is historically incorrect.
> ...


. Let's just hope that blacks like the poster you are talking with, don't make us regret the day we ever stood up for anyone like him (not knowing how he or anyone like him thinks). I have hope for black Americans progress over the years, but it is important to recognize those blacks who want to destroy that progress in lue of their black supremacy thinking, and their black supremacy agenda.


----------



## beagle9 (Aug 2, 2017)

MikeK said:


> Paul Essien said:
> 
> 
> > There was a time when whites could say anything to black people and they knew black people could not do anything about it.
> ...


. And if you were a business owner, and was looking to hire a good employee, would this person be a good candidate for the position ?? I'm guessing you would say no. Ok, so then if you said no, then would he inturn use your not hiring him (because of his hostile attitude towards whites), to then say that you have held him back for no good reason other than his skin color ?? This is how messed up this bullcrap can get, but then no one takes personal responsibility for their attitudes afterwards. Sad for everyone (all colors) that are trying hard, and are working together these days.


----------



## MikeK (Aug 2, 2017)

beagle9 said:


> And if you were a business owner, and was looking to hire a good employee, would this person be a good candidate for the position ?? I'm guessing you would say no. Ok, so then if you said no, then would he inturn use your not hiring him (because of his hostile attitude towards whites), to then say that you have held him back for no good reason other than his skin color ?? This is how messed up this bullcrap can get, but then no one takes personal responsibility for their attitudes afterwards. Sad for everyone (all colors) that are trying hard, and are working together these days.


A substantial percentage of contemporary Black Americans have increasingly managed to secure comfortable middle-class lifestyles for themselves.  A smaller but significant number of American Blacks have acquired enviable wealth.  Some have risen to corporate executive levels while others have become influential politicians, ranking as high as the Presidency.  Still others have become doctors, lawyers, judges and police chiefs.  In spite of this impressive level of achievement by a formerly oppressed class of Americans there remains an even greater percentage of Blacks who insist to themselves and to the world that their failure to achieve is the consequence of _White privilege_ and continued oppression of Blacks by White society. 

What concerns me is the level of intense hatred of White people by younger generations of Blacks which is manifest in the increasing number of brutal attacks on vulnerable Whites. 




Us Crime in Black & White by YouPplAreNuts - Infogram


----------



## IM2 (Aug 3, 2017)

flacaltenn said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Paul was talking about the colonization of Africa and you knew exactly when that was. 250 years ago Africa had sovereign nations and were in charge of them. The place we call America had existing nations in it all with their own boundaries with people in charge. The same goes for South America. So your claim of power and control being concentrated in a few hands is historically incorrect.
> ...



Flacaltenn you need to stop making excuses. I know what I am saying. I know full well who had the authority, The Berlin Conference was not 250 years ago. And when I say whites I mean whites. I know exactly what power they were capable of exerting. And when they exerted that power. on a governmental and individual basis. The government did not kill Emmitt Till. for example. The government did not sanction the burning down of Rosewood Florida or Tulsa Oklahoma's black communities. These were acts carried out by individuals most of who had little money and those you would consider powerless.

All Whites.


----------



## Paul Essien (Aug 3, 2017)

MikeK said:


> Click on the link in my Signature Line (below) and you'll see what I mean in brilliant color.


OK. So are you saying that Muslims are going to take over European nations ?




MikeK said:


> By any means necessary.


What does that mean ? If you're going talk tough then back it up. Be clear

So non-white immigrants to Europe should be rounded up and killed ?




MikeK said:


> Again, go to the link in my Signature Line.  If what you see doesn't answer your question you've been living in a really bad ghetto for far too long.


I'm asking you to be a man and speak in your own words, not chicken and pass me on to some link on youtube



MikeK said:


> For one thing it is the culture which has provided the highest standard of living for Blacks compared with any other nation in the world.  It's time you acknowledged that


What's black people go to do with it ?

I'm asking you what is white western culture, the fact that you can only answer that in regards to black people is telling and something that every white person who I have asked this question does the same.

I cam remember a few years ago they asked white folks and black and other people of color what they like about being black, white, or whatever they in fact may be. 

For blk people the answers always have to do with the pride they feel, coming from families who have struggled against the odds, fought injustice, persevered, and maintained dignity in the face of great obstacles. 

In other words, to be black has internal meaning, derived from the positive actions and experiences of black people themselves. Variations on the same theme tend to be expressed by Latinos, Asians and Indigenous peoples as well. 

But for whites ? If they can come up with anything, it is typically something about how nice it is not to have to worry about being racially profiled by police, or how nice it is not to be presumed less competent by employers, or discriminated against when applying for a loan, or looking for a home. 

In other words, for whites, your self-definition is wrapped up entirely in terms of what and who you aren’t. 

What it means to be white is merely to not be black.


----------



## Paul Essien (Aug 3, 2017)

MikeK said:


> There was a time when Muslims (then called, _Moslems_) sought to _dominate_ the Western world and did succeed to some extent, during which time their brutal cruelties, their total subjugation and mistreatment of the Western peoples they'd conquered, remain as historical legends and were the motivation for nine Holy Crusades.  So _dominance_ is by no means an exclusively White province.  It is in fact as natural an occurrence as the changing influences of weather and it occurs within the purview of every animal species.  One will always _dominate._


Being evil to a group of people and being racist are not necessarily the same thing.

But If racism is so natural in human nature as your like to point out. Why don’t we see animals behaving in a racist manner?

So if white cats went around fighting “other” black cats this would make sense to you ?

You haven’t really thought this through have you???

It may be natural for everyone to see and label “others” but is it natural to BELIEVE that you are BETTER or SUPERIOR to those “others” ???

You could just as well form the belief that you were INFERIOR to “others”.

Why not?

Racism is not built into human nature. If it were we would see it in the Bible, we would see it in the Greeks. Both* the Jews and the *Greeks divided the world into an us and a them, but neither used race to do it: the Jews used religion and the Greeks used language. The colour of your skin meant little to them.

Second, there is no reason for racism to be wired into our brains by evolution: coming across people of other races was rare till the last few thousand years. Not enough time to affect evolution. Europeans did not even think of themselves as “white” till about 1500: race as we know it is a side effect of ocean travel.

Even in America blacks were made into slaves at first because of religion: they were not Christians. Race as an excuse came later, not till the 1660s.

It was only when race became an excuse for keeping blacks as slaves and taking land from the American Indians, only when society was built on skin colour, that racism began to seem part of the “natural” order of things.
_


MikeK said:



			While it may be said that slavery is the embodiment of subjugation and mistreatment it must be noted that slavery in America was not effected by White people, alone.  The Black African slaves who arrived in America were brought here by mainly Arab (Muslim) traders who had purchased them from other Black African tribesmen who had captured and sold their fellow ("brother" and "sister") Blacks into slavery.  But while this does not excuse the cruelty of those White Americans who brutally exploited their captive slaves it must be noted that the practice was limited to a specific region and was denounced by a substantial percentage of the total White American population.
		
Click to expand...

_And here is the hypocrisy.

When whites do something good like inventions ?

*History does not matter and you don’t look for black people who have done the same thing*

When white people do something bad like slavery ?

*History now matters and you look for black people who have done the same thing*

You want to claim and take pride in the good things from what whites have done in the past (inventions made, battles won, rights fought for) but then act as if the bad things whites have done nothing to do with them, like slavery, genocide and rights not fought for. But you cannot have it both ways.

If the great inventions are proof of the intelligence of whites, then surely slavery and genocide are proof of the great evil of whites.

You cannot claim one without the other.

Or if slavery and genocide came about through the workings of human nature under a particular set of circumstances – if anyone else would have done the same thing – then the same goes for the inventions too.




MikeK said:


> In anthropological terms this kind of _cooperative efficiency_ is the key to survival of and dominance by any animal species or sub-species.  Right now, in the world of human animals, the White sub-species is being threatened by a non-White sub-species (Muslims, again).


What are you talking about sub species ?

There is only one species of human and that's Homo Sapiens

DNA studies do not indicate that separate classifiable subspecies (races) exist within modern humans. While different genes for physical traits such as skin and hair colour can be identified between individuals.

No consistent patterns of genes across the human genome exist to distinguish one race from another. It has never been a case of there not being differences between the way human beings look.

The trouble is in the imprecise taxonomy. How do you define a “race” and might there not be other equally valid ways of dividing humans into taxonomical groupings?

Many scientists worked hard (*REAL HARD*) on finding working definition of race as a biological fact.

They all failed.

They all failed not because genetic differences can’t be observed between various humans (after all, if there weren’t mDNA differences, we wouldn’t know much about human maternal ancestry).

They all failed because genetic differences do not support social races, races that divide people into (pardon my words) “black”, “white”, “yellow” and “red”.

The only living subspecies of the species Homo sapiens is Homo sapiens sapiens. That is current scientific knowledge. And it is very likely to remain the only one, unless Sasquatch or the Yeti decide to walk into a science lab for a DNA test one day.

There is a reason why blood transfusions and bone marrow transplants work. This is why a “black ” persons blood can save an white Irishman’s life with a transfusion and vice versa Some blood types have an affinity for certain groups of people…but the genes are the same.

If I can classify 100,000 humans as a race and then discover that the genetic diversity between any two of them is as great or greater than the diversity between any one of them and any other random human on the planet, then no, we don’t have a biological subspecies, no matter what those people look like.

*And - NO - It's not because we are all the same.*

There are persistent and real genetic differences that cluster within racial groups and more so than many believed.

Yet these differences still fall far short of indicating sub-speciation, which is the normal standard used by biologists to indicate different “races” or breeds of a larger species.

Now if you have amazing ground breaking evidence to show me and wack youtube historians don't count, then I'd like to see it.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]


----------



## Mudda (Aug 3, 2017)

Whites know blacks for their generally inferior intellect, and their superior athletic skills. Blacks haven't figured that out yet.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope (Aug 3, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > There was a time when Muslims (then called, _Moslems_) sought to _dominate_ the Western world and did succeed to some extent, during which time their brutal cruelties, their total subjugation and mistreatment of the Western peoples they'd conquered, remain as historical legends and were the motivation for nine Holy Crusades.  So _dominance_ is by no means an exclusively White province.  It is in fact as natural an occurrence as the changing influences of weather and it occurs within the purview of every animal species.  One will always _dominate._
> ...


[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

That's because those Cats live in people's houses, and don't have to fend for themselves.

There's similar Animals fighting in packs over resources, that is more along the lines of Racism.

Actually Nature can be more cruel than that, some Animals eat other Animals.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Aug 3, 2017)

w


Paul Essien said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > There was a time when Muslims (then called, _Moslems_) sought to _dominate_ the Western world and did succeed to some extent, during which time their brutal cruelties, their total subjugation and mistreatment of the Western peoples they'd conquered, remain as historical legends and were the motivation for nine Holy Crusades.  So _dominance_ is by no means an exclusively White province.  It is in fact as natural an occurrence as the changing influences of weather and it occurs within the purview of every animal species.  One will always _dominate._
> ...


[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

These scientists are  hypocritical, and just plain odd when it comes to defining sub-species.

For example Plains Coyotes who moved out from the Middle of America around the mid 20th century, had already created separate sub-species by moving else where in the U.S.


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## MikeK (Aug 3, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> Being evil to a group of people and being racist are not necessarily the same thing.


You are using terms ("evil" and "racist") which have no place in scientific examination.  



> But If racism is so natural in human nature as your like to point out. Why don’t we see animals behaving in a racist manner?


Because the word, _"race"_ has not been synonymously applied to any "lesser" animal sub-species.  Its use is confined to the human species for the express purpose of distinguishing humans from "lesser" animals.    Race (human categorization) - Wikipedia



> So if white cats went around fighting “other” black cats this would make sense to you ?


There are many sub-species within the (feline) cat species.  Color is by no means the singular characteristic in distinguishing the various sub-species.  You are citing hair (fur) color as being a determinant, which it is not.  E.g., my hair is (was) blond.  My late wife's hair was jet black.  Two of our three daughters' hair is blond while one has brown hair.  

So the color of a cat's hair, alone, does not determine its sub-species anymore than skin color, alone, determines a human's sub-species ("race").  E.g., East-Indian people are the same (or closely similar) color as Africans but they are not Negroes.  https://www.quora.com/What-race-do-Asian-Indians-belong-to



> It may be natural for everyone to see and label “others” but is it natural to BELIEVE that you are BETTER or SUPERIOR to those “others” ???
> 
> You could just as well form the belief that you were INFERIOR to “others”.


How about just _*different?*_ 

But if you have a problem with the concepts of _superior_ and _inferior,_ some people are superior or inferior to others in either individual or collective ways.  E.g., the Asian I.Q. is generally higher (superior to) that of the Caucasian I.Q.  And Negroes are superior to Caucasians and Mongoloids (Asians) at basketball, track, and high-jumping.


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## flacaltenn (Aug 3, 2017)

IM2 said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



But you're talking about mostly 20th Century events. And we're arguing about it being necessary to specify TIME periods in order to UNDERSTAND who is responsible for the damages. The damages in the 18th Century do not have the SAME perpetrators and the damages in the 20th Century.  That's WHY i weighed in -- when you claimed for Paul --- that TIMELINE DIDN'T MATTER..  It does....

What you want to do is put it ALL in the same racism against ALL whites -- over ALL time..  And that's just a simpleton view of the DAMAGES and the lessons to be learned.


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## Unkotare (Aug 3, 2017)

flacaltenn said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...




According to the apparent reasoning of the Platinum Victim Card holder, we may consider the following:

If a man robbed a treasury of a great store of gold in around the year 1500, he would have greatly enriched himself and his immediate family. This family may have used the gold to establish a thriving business, or several highly profitable enterprises that could, in theory, have enriched his ancestors considerably over all succeeding generations. 

Considering how many descendants that thief would likely have since 1500, by the reasoning of our esteemed card holder's thinking, justice could not be served unless between 1 and 64 million people (more, depending on the calculation and fecundity of the family line) were imprisoned today and made to pay restitution.


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## ptbw forever (Aug 3, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> So if white cats went around fighting “other” black cats this would make sense to you ?



Are you seriously an idiot? How does fur(animal hair)compare to skin color, distinctive facial features and different skeletal structures?

Do you think blondes, brunettes and redhead have ever considered "fighting" each other in mass solely because of hair color?

You do realize that cats usually have a litter consisting of various fur colors, right?



> Racism is not built into human nature. If it were we would see it in the Bible, we would see it in the Greeks. Both





> *the Jews and the *Greeks divided the world into an us and a them, but neither used race to do it: the Jews used religion and the Greeks used language. The colour of your skin meant little to them



This is an extremely inaccurate statement about both the Greeks and the Jews.

Greeks considered Northern Europeans inferior to them and frequently mentioned the fact that Northern Europeans were lighter skinned while insulting them(this is when Greeks were much lighter than they are today)while Jews largely still consider every non-Jew as inferior to them.


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## MikeK (Aug 3, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> Racism is not built into human nature. If it were we would see it in the Bible, we would see it in the Greeks. Both* the Jews and the *Greeks divided the world into an us and a them, but neither used race to do it: the Jews used religion and the Greeks used language. The colour of your skin meant little to them.
> 
> Second, there is no reason for racism to be wired into our brains by evolution: coming across people of other races was rare till the last few thousand years. Not enough time to affect evolution. Europeans did not even think of themselves as “white” till about 1500: race as we know it is a side effect of ocean travel.


You persist in basing arguments on the vacuous concept of "racism," when you've never managed to substantively explain what you mean by that grossly over-used word.  You also persist in referring to "skin color" as if it were the one and only distinguishing factor in identifying a sub-species, which it certainly is not.  







E.g., this fellow's skin and hair color are the same as mine, but do you have any trouble identifying his sub-species ("race?")


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## ptbw forever (Aug 3, 2017)

MikeK said:


> Paul Essien said:
> 
> 
> > Racism is not built into human nature. If it were we would see it in the Bible, we would see it in the Greeks. Both* the Jews and the *Greeks divided the world into an us and a them, but neither used race to do it: the Jews used religion and the Greeks used language. The colour of your skin meant little to them.
> ...


I highly doubt you have the same skin color and hair color as an albino.

I know I certainly don't.


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## flacaltenn (Aug 3, 2017)

Unkotare said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



The comments I made were about the LAW, AUTHORITY, and POWER to abuse Black people thru history..  Not necessarily about individuals -- but yeah.   

SPECIFICALLY it gets away from acts of individuals to the acts of STATES and monarchs and tyrants that BLESSED all that colonization and Empire in the 1st place.


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## MikeK (Aug 3, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> Even in America blacks were made into slaves at first because of religion: they were not Christians. Race as an excuse came later, not till the 1660s.


Blacks did not become slaves in America because they weren't Christians.  Black Africans were sold to American settlers in the early sixteenth century by Arab, Dutch, and Portuguese traders who had purchased them from other Black African tribesmen who had initially captured and enslaved them.  In fact, Africa is the birthplace of slavery and the practice continues in some parts of Africa, such as Sudan, to this day. 



> It was only when race became an excuse for keeping blacks as slaves and taking land from the American Indians, only when society was built on skin colour, that racism began to seem part of the “natural” order of things.


What "excuse" was there for powerful Black African tribes to capture, enslave, and then sell members of less powerful tribes to Arab, Dutch, and Portuguese traders for transport across the seas?  I'd say the "excuse" was money or other desirable trade materials, wouldn't you?

And if race was an "excuse" used for taking land from native Americans, what excuse did native American tribes have for taking largely the same lands from other, weaker, native American tribes?  

"Race" and "excuse" are not the correct words or concepts to explain the circumstances you're referencing.  The right words and concepts are _conquest_ and _dominance._


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## beagle9 (Aug 3, 2017)

flacaltenn said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...


. I think you may have mis-interpreted his post maybe. I think he is talking about one of the victim card holders here, that keep wanting to blame the whites forever for their ancestors woes and crimes. Did you think he was referring to you as the victim card holder ?


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## flacaltenn (Aug 3, 2017)

beagle9 said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



I screwed up. You're right. At 1st I thought he was responding to me. I went back and edited my post. And I'm sorry for leaping to conclusions. Trying to do too many things at once here.


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## IM2 (Aug 3, 2017)

beagle9 said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



There are no victim card holders here with the exception of whites who claim there is white genocide complaining about diversity or multiculturalism or those who cry about people pointing out wrongs whites have done whereby the damages have not been fixed.


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## IM2 (Aug 3, 2017)

flacaltenn said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...



I know what your were trying to refer to, but the fact remains that the government or those in power are not responsible for all the wrongs that have been or continue to be done. It's funny how your argument is being used here.


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## IM2 (Aug 3, 2017)

MikeK said:


> Paul Essien said:
> 
> 
> > Even in America blacks were made into slaves at first because of religion: they were not Christians. Race as an excuse came later, not till the 1660s.
> ...



Again you need to refer t o those Africans as nations or tribes. Because those Africans did not know one another, they were enemies and rivals no different that the different nations of Europe. So then your argument is disingenuous and only used to make EXCUSES for RACISM by whites. After all WHITES did buy the slaves when they did not have to.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Aug 3, 2017)

IM2 said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > Paul Essien said:
> ...



Sure, because all racists really want to import Blacks into their own backyards for cheap labor.

Does that sound like White racists, or more like the multiculturalist Capitalists who hire illegal Mexicans for cheap labor?


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## IM2 (Aug 3, 2017)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...



Given that what you just posted had nothing to do with what was being discussed........


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## MikeK (Aug 3, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> OK. So are you saying that Muslims are going to take over European nations ?



No.  I'm saying they are going to try -- and it won't be the first time.


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## IM2 (Aug 3, 2017)

MikeK said:


> Paul Essien said:
> 
> 
> > OK. So are you saying that Muslims are going to take over European nations ?
> ...



Do ya think that maybe they are just defending themselves from the euros trying to take control of their oil?


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## beagle9 (Aug 3, 2017)

IM2 said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > Paul Essien said:
> ...


. How hard would it be for you to take your message of hate, and apply it back to Africa ??  Nothing to gain by that eh ??  Whites best hold onto their wallets here, because IM2 is on the loose. LOL.


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## flacaltenn (Aug 3, 2017)

IM2 said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



Guess I'm wasting time by not lumping "ALL the wrongs" in some nicely wrapped package like you do. With no other variables other than an INNATE tendency to hate Black people.  I'll defer to your simpler less analytical "results" that ALL white people suck at ANY time in History. 

 Right now --- my biggest racist evidence of abuse is from my grocery shopping tonight. Where I discovered that the racist bigots in HillBilly Hollywood where I live -- didn't buy enough Aunt Jehmima's Breakfast plates which I love. And now all I can get is some crappy WhiteMan Jimmy Dean garbage.  I tell ya -- it's EVERY damn white person avoiding foods with Black people on the labels...


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## beagle9 (Aug 3, 2017)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...


.  Yep, and if IM2 thinks that black people who own businesses wouldn't exploit for profit certain characteristic's found in individuals or groups, then he is living in a bubble made out of the thinist material in the world. Hate to pop his bubble, but ohhh well many will until he wakes up in life..


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## IM2 (Aug 3, 2017)

flacaltenn said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...




Yawn! I know you would like to imagine racism doesn't exist. But it does. I have not wrapped anything into one category, but you see flacaltenn, you want to' revise history. My analysis is not simple nor have you seen me say all whites have sucked throughout history. You like most white conservatives, get bent out of shape and defensive when we start talking about racism and it gets even worse as we who are black and have endured it reject your opinions based on the reality that you have not seen.

I know exactly who made the call to colonize, yet I do know that the money made from the colonization made white nations rich and that additional wealth did trickle down to the average citizen meaning they benefitted from the colonization whether or not they were a fucking racist or not. You are forever looking for ways to deny things relative to racial matters. I'm quite sure not everybody associated with the Anglo Saxon Diamond Mining Company are racists. I am sure not everybody working for De Beers is either. However both these companies are a result of colonialism. People have worked, fed their families and provided comfortable lives for them even as they did not make the call and were not racists. Yet they benefitted. And this is your problem in these discussions. I have studied these things in great detail. I have continued to study the psychological damage created by colonization and other forms of white racism. Have you?

Like I have said, I have 32 years of studying this and have built programs that have succeeded in black communities. Have you? But you want to argue with me like your simpleminded analysis is equal to what I have found.


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## IM2 (Aug 3, 2017)

beagle9 said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



Well given that we out numbered your asses in Africa and did not male you slaves, I think I can safely say you are wrong.


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## beagle9 (Aug 3, 2017)

IM2 said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


. Well, I have experienced racism by the blacks who were a majority in my middle school, so spare us your whining and crying about white people already. Both groups are capable of the same things given the settings to do it in have been made ripe, and once you understand that fact, then you can become a better debator, and become better educated in life.


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## beagle9 (Aug 3, 2017)

IM2 said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> ...


. Who is we ??  You and your tribal salesman ? Tell them you want your money back or a cut off their proceeds from the years your people were being sold from there.


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## IM2 (Aug 4, 2017)

beagle9 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...



You have not experienced racism. What you described was not racism.


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## IM2 (Aug 4, 2017)

beagle9 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



No. That won't be done since whites bought the slaves then sold them for a profit here in America.


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## MikeK (Aug 4, 2017)

IM2 said:


> You have not experienced racism. What you described was not racism.


Please tell us, exactly and specifically, your definition of the word, "racism," which probably is the most over-used word in the American lexicon.


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## bgrouse (Aug 4, 2017)

IM2 said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


Who captured and sold them in the first place?


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## beagle9 (Aug 4, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...


. You reckon they think that the whites are easier targets to embezzel from than the Africans would be ? I say we defer them back to the real ROOTS of their problem, and quit being their idiots in which they think we are in this country.


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## bgrouse (Aug 4, 2017)

beagle9 said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


Bingo! They want a handout and they don't care how they get it as long as they get it. Everyone knows blacks are worse off in black Africa than in America. Instead of saying thanks for the white man's infinite tolerance in providing the blacks with a heaven compared to Apefreaka, they demand more.


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## MikeK (Aug 4, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Do ya think that maybe they are just defending themselves from the euros trying to take control of their oil?


You could be right about that.  I have no conclusive answer for you because that situation is so thoroughly complicated and deliberately obscured by lying government officials and the controlled media it is virtually impossible to fully understand it.  One thing I do know is if Bush1 had not interfered with Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait, which was completely justified, but had instead backed him, Hussein's next objective would have been Saudi Arabia.  And if we had supported him with that by now we probably would be in the catbird seat in the Middle East and paying .35 a gallon for Premium gasoline.  







Instead there are millions of angry military-age Muslim men invading Europe with resentful eyes on the USA.  Following behind and marching among the Muslims are still more millions of bottom-feeding rabble from sewer nations.  All of these invaders are pissed off at the U.S. because of what the Bush family did.  But my position is I had nothing to do with it, nor was I able to do anything to stop it.  I regard these people as invaders, not "refugees" or "Immigrants."  I am afraid of them and my disposition is 100% defensive.


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## Paul Essien (Aug 6, 2017)

I'll focus on this one point because I have debunked the IQ thing and debated on other pages.

So I just want to focus on this statement you said



MikeK said:


> And Negroes are superior to Caucasians and Mongoloids (Asians) at basketball, track, and high-jumping.


So if what you say is true then can you explain to me why you find African Americans in the NBA but you won’t find many West Africans, who are certainly “blacker” and according to your theory athleticism and blackness somehow run together, right ?

Well surely you would expect West Africans to dominate the NBA and African teams to dominate international basketball competitions

They don't. Why is that ?

Remember the original story was that black people were inferior in body and brains.






In the 1936 Olympics Hitler was confident that his Aryan athletes would dominate the Black American sprinters. 

To Adolf the 1936 Olympics was the coming out party for the so called superior Aryan.






But due to Jessie Owens and Joe Louis beating Max Schemmling it didn’t quite work out that way:



So the white Supremacists pretended that they had never believed that white people were physically superior to black people and that their ideas had not been embarrassingly refuted. 

So now brains were more important, so if black people were to be sold to the world as inferior, it would have to be based on us being genetically stupid.

_How convenient_

See when you start to make statements about certain scientific things, it would be good to know what one is talking about. Like the simple basics of the evolution theory.

Something as major as an additional pair of muscles (Because I know your going to talk about the supposed fast twitch muscles that black people are meant to have) would have required major evolutionary changes. Or a loss of a pair of muscles, since all humans evolved from a common ancestor.

In order for black people to have "an extra muscle" from other human beings there would have to be fixed genetic differences between races. 

*Meaning a clear break*

Indeed this seems like a speciation level difference to be frank, such as "Blacks" having a gene for X and no one else. This is absolutely clearly not the case. Not a shadow of a doubt. 

But you say that black people are physically more capable of playing basketball. If that's true, why don't blacks dominate volleyball the same way ? 

You have to be tall and have great jumping ability in volleyball. Right ? Or why aren't all championship high jumpers black ?


Every player who has ever won an NHL scoring title is white.

Every Olympic weightlifting record is held by a caucasian.

All championship speed skaters are white.

Every major league pitcher who has ever won 300 games is white.

Almost all Olympic champions rowers and kayakers are white,

I don't believe for one instant the whites are physically advantaged in shooting, hockey pucks, lifting barbells, skating, or rowing, do you ?

There are actually very good reasons why track and field and boxing events are dominated the way they are; because that's who trains and competes in them. Boxing is generally for people who have limited opportunities. Racism limits your opportunities. 

And yes Africans have been ahead of the rest of the world in long distance training methods for thirty years; it's no surprise they dominate the competitions.

If people from a geographic region of Africa are the world's champion sprinters and a different group of people from a geographic region of Africa are the world's champion marathon runners and both are alleged to be part of some specific "race" you have just argued against sprinting or distance running as being a "racial" characteristic. Since the 2 groups you tried to put into one "race" have contradictory abilities.

And it's possible for white people and black people to interbreed - Right ? So if a mixed-race individual would have this extra muscle. Then how much "black blood" is necessary for a person to have this fast twitch muscle ? 

Your talking points probably sound good on stormfront. They sound really good when no-one is there to check them because it's clear that, as usual, you've not really thought this through......have you ?


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## bgrouse (Aug 6, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> I'll focus on this one point because I have debunked the IQ thing and debated on other pages.


Where did you debunk that?


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## April (Aug 6, 2017)

DarkFury said:


> White Mexican


wtf is a "White Mexican"?


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## beagle9 (Aug 6, 2017)

AngelsNDemons said:


> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> > White Mexican
> ...


----------



## DarkFury (Aug 6, 2017)

AngelsNDemons said:


> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> > White Mexican
> ...


*That's what liberal media branded people like me after trayvon Martin. Not that it bothers me. Chuck Norris is a white Mexican. His REAL first name is Carlos.*


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## beagle9 (Aug 6, 2017)

beagle9 said:


> AngelsNDemons said:
> 
> 
> > DarkFury said:
> ...


 George Zimmerman ?


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## DarkFury (Aug 6, 2017)

beagle9 said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > AngelsNDemons said:
> ...


Yup


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## April (Aug 6, 2017)

DarkFury said:


> That's what liberal media branded people like me after trayvon Martin. Not that it bothers me. Chuck Norris is a white Mexican. His REAL first name is Carlos.


That's funny. My father's first name is Jose (everyone calls him Joe)...yet he doesn't consider himself a "white mexican"...nor do I...and I have a white mother.


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## DarkFury (Aug 6, 2017)

AngelsNDemons said:


> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> > That's what liberal media branded people like me after trayvon Martin. Not that it bothers me. Chuck Norris is a white Mexican. His REAL first name is Carlos.
> ...


*Well then according to liberals you are a white Mexican. I never let it bother me. *


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## April (Aug 6, 2017)

beagle9 said:


> George Zimmerman ?


George Zimmerman is in a class of his own...I remember him being considered "Hispanic"...but not "white mexican"...lol @ white mexican...


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## DarkFury (Aug 6, 2017)

AngelsNDemons said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > George Zimmerman ?
> ...


CNN first branded him as white after the shooting. After he was found to be half Mexican they rebranded him as a white mexicana.


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## beagle9 (Aug 6, 2017)

AngelsNDemons said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > George Zimmerman ?
> ...


. That's what the media tried to make him when the case 1st broke... LOL.   Had to get that "white" in there somehow.. lol


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## Paul Essien (Aug 9, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> Where did you debunk that?


*If you are trying to ground IQ as a genetic product of race. The very first thing you need to do is offer up a genetic definition of race.*

Something no one has done. Nor done nor has any study.

But I’ll sit back, and invite you to give me a definition. Mainly because your attempts to define race will point out just how subjective such definitions are. In close to a decade of debating race and IQ with people like you.

I have yet to see any one of them, no matter what their scientific credentials (I repeat) *no matter what their scientific credentials* - offer up an acceptably neutral definition of race.

It's not enough to say "Blacks have a lower IQ. Now prove me wrong"


You have to show that human variation is great enough to account for differences of IQ.
You have to show that the veracity of IQ as a legitimate measurement.
You have to show and provided an inextricable link between genetics, race, and IQ outside of methodologically flawed correlations.

If you are saying that black IQ is lower because blacks are “naturally” less intelligent. 

*That's an exceptionally radical statement. So you're going to need exceptionally radical proof to back it up.*

Alfred Binet created IQ test to see which children weren’t profiting from the Parisian school system (not so that they could be labeled stupid) so new educational programs could be created to help those children.

Even back then he was afraid that his tests would be misused for the wrong reasons and he He must have been psychic because once certain people got a hold of it, they took on a whole new meaning.

And let's look at the people who try promote HBD (Human Bio-Diversity)

Steve Sailer, journalist/computer salesman.
J. Philippe Rushton, psychologist.
Francis Fukuyama, political economist.
Steve Hsu, astrophysicist.
Richard Herrnstein, psychologist.
Charles Murray, political scientist (Author of Bell Curve)
Arthur Jensen, psychology professor. (Author of Bell Curve)
You notice anything strange? 

No biologists. No anthropologists. No neurologists. No geneticists in sight.

But yet you take there words of youtuber over people who study these things for a living ? 

*And that's why in neurology no one takes IQ seriously.* 

It is archaic and only really useful to social scientists. And people like you who need simple explanations for complex things.

Neurologists have a better understanding of how the brain works because they spend decades of their lives studying it have little to no use for it, but to the public at large it is so important. 

Because the public is only concerned with what feels like it should be true rather than what is actually the case in reality.


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## MikeK (Aug 9, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > Where did you debunk that?
> ...


Okay.  Let's ignore the I.Q. factor and focus on actual performance studies.  The following is excerpted from a New York Times review:

_*
AFRICAN AMERICANS currently score lower than European Americans on vocabulary, reading, and mathematics tests, as well as on tests that claim to measure scholastic aptitude and intelligence. This gap appears before children enter kindergarten (figure 1-1), and it persists into adulthood. It has narrowed since 1970, but the typical American black still scores below 75 percent of American whites on most standardized tests. On some tests the typical American black scores below more than 85 percent of whites?*_

The Black-White Test Score Gap


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## Conservative65 (Aug 9, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> John Shaw said:
> 
> 
> > Though they think they do.
> ...



Where specifically is your face, BOY?

By the way, the same person you quote and defend also said he's have you ******* voting Democratic for the next 200 years.  You only have 150 left.


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## Conservative65 (Aug 9, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > Where did you debunk that?
> ...



Don't feel bad that the average IQ for blacks is around 85.  It's the best you can do.


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## bgrouse (Aug 9, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > Where did you debunk that?
> ...


In a way the definition of race is subjective. As in, if whites and blacks keep mixing, at what point does one race end and another begin? I suppose it's a blurred line and in that sense it can be called subjective. What's not as subjective is that blacks commit more stupid crime and are dumber based on tests.

I can make the statement that compact cars are generally faster and more maneuverable than trucks and nobody will disagree just because I can't draw a thin line between a "compact car" and a "truck" with so many crossovers/SUVs out there.





> I have yet to see any one of them, no matter what their scientific credentials (I repeat) *no matter what their scientific credentials* - offer up an acceptably neutral definition of race.
> 
> It's not enough to say "Blacks have a lower IQ. Now prove me wrong"


I've seen much more done than simply that statement being made. What I wanted to know is what you debunked and where you did it.





> You have to show that human variation is great enough to account for differences of IQ.
> You have to show that the veracity of IQ as a legitimate measurement.
> You have to show and provided an inextricable link between genetics, race, and IQ outside of methodologically flawed correlations.


Maybe that is what was done. Won't know until I see what was debunked and how.





> If you are saying that black IQ is lower because blacks are “naturally” less intelligent.
> 
> *That's an exceptionally radical statement. So you're going to need exceptionally radical proof to back it up.*
> 
> ...


Not strange at all. Racism is frowned upon in public.





> But yet you take there words of youtuber over people who study these things for a living ?
> 
> *And that's why in neurology no one takes IQ seriously.*
> 
> ...


I'll reserve judgment until I see what you debunked and how.


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## MikeK (Aug 9, 2017)

MikeK said:


> Okay.  Let's ignore the I.Q. factor and focus on actual performance studies.  The following is excerpted from a New York Times review:
> 
> _*
> AFRICAN AMERICANS currently score lower than European Americans on vocabulary, reading, and mathematics tests, as well as on tests that claim to measure scholastic aptitude and intelligence. This gap appears before children enter kindergarten (figure 1-1), and it persists into adulthood. It has narrowed since 1970, but the typical American black still scores below 75 percent of American whites on most standardized tests. On some tests the typical American black scores below more than 85 percent of whites?*_
> ...


To avoid being accused of participating in a _who's smarter than who_ contention let me say that Asians (Chinese in particular) typically score higher than Caucasians in general intelligence tests, and while Ashkenazi Jews are not considered a separate "racial" demographic they score higher than other ethnic categories (typical 115 IQ average).  So this is not a Black vs White contest.   It is a discussion of recorded academic observation and measurement.  Jews at the top.  Blacks at the bottom. 

Sorry if that pisses anyone off.  I had no part in the studies.


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