# The Senate is designed undemocratic and will break America



## citygator (Sep 22, 2020)

By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal. 

How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible. 

Here is a link to a story on population growth from a few years back 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...l-be-represented-by-30-percent-of-the-senate/

Here’s an article that says it’s impossible to amend essentially this immoral Piece of the constitution. 
Revamping the Senate Is a Fantasy


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## BasicHumanUnit (Sep 22, 2020)

You libbies are immature children.
ANY time it doesn't go YOUR WAY you throw a tantrum and demand change.

THE SYSTEM IS GREAT.   WE DON'T GIVE A FUCK IF IT'S NOT WORKING FOR COMMUNISTS

AND NO.....WE DON'T NEED TO CHANGE IT


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## harmonica (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.
> 
> How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.
> 
> ...


works better than crap in  Russia, Somalia, Uganda,[ AFRICA ] the Mid East, etc etc
.....wow--go move to Somalia then if the US is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Muhammed (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.
> 
> How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.
> 
> ...


If you don't like it, you scumbag Democrats can go ahead and try to secede again.

Attacking the USA didn't work out very well for you last time. And you will get whooped 100 times worse if you try it again today.


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## citygator (Sep 22, 2020)

Example


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## citygator (Sep 22, 2020)

harmonica said:


> citygator said:
> 
> 
> > By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.
> ...


Intellectually insufficient response. Your posting privileges have been suspended for the next 215 years. If you don’t like it move to Africa.


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## occupied (Sep 22, 2020)

The senate was created the way it was expressly to protect the interests of the rich from the rabble. A direct analog of the British house of lords. Until McConnell came along they kept that on the downlow but now it's right in our faces: the senate's purpose is to make democracy ineffective.


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## harmonica (Sep 22, 2020)

what's insufficient is the evidence you link and your brain 
hahahhahahaha
WPOST!!!???  hahahahahahha


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## harmonica (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.
> 
> How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.
> 
> ...


it's been around how long???  and NOW that it's R, it's unfair!!!!!!!!!!!

YES--you are still whining like a child


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## Mikeoxenormous (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.
> 
> How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.
> 
> ...


50% of Americans pay no taxes, so why the fuck should they be represented?


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## Mikeoxenormous (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> Example


Must suck to be you, that cities that allow Anarchy to run amok, end up being identified as "anarchist jurisdictions".


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## citygator (Sep 22, 2020)

harmonica said:


> citygator said:
> 
> 
> > By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.
> ...


It was unfair from the get go but was sacrificed for compromise... like 3/5ths representation for slaves which was fixed.  Time to fix this bitch!


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## MisterBeale (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.
> 
> How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.
> 
> ...


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## citygator (Sep 22, 2020)

andaronjim said:


> 50% of Americans pay no taxes, so why the fuck should they be represented?


Everyone pays taxes. You are talking about specifically income taxes from people who have no income - children, old retired people etc.  Guess what? You’re not paying every US tax that doesn’t apply to you either. There is an excise tax on arrows... buy any recently?


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## occupied (Sep 22, 2020)

andaronjim said:


> citygator said:
> 
> 
> > By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.
> ...


Disenfranchising the working poor and denying them real representation is one of the central aims of fascism.


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## SeaGal (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.
> 
> How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.
> 
> ...



Spending bills (federal tax dollars of those who actually pay federal income tax) originate in the House of Representatives.  The House membership is representative of population... California has 53 - Utah has 4.  Hence the push by some states to count people here illegally.

Using your logic - should only those who pay income tax get to vote?

The Senate is fine despite Harry Reid's 8 years of finagling with the rules.


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## Penelope (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> harmonica said:
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They (republicans) are still suppressing the vote.


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## westwall (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> harmonica said:
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Your OP is intellectually deficient.   Didn't keep you from posting it though, did it.


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## citygator (Sep 22, 2020)

SeaGal said:


> citygator said:
> 
> 
> > By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.
> ...


I never claimed tax payers only should vote. There are non tax payers under represented by the senate as well. So I don’t think that logic holds.

Congress is nearly representative. Not perfect because of 435 cap. No issues there.  But 2 for 40M Californians and 2 for 0.5M Wyoming citizens is bunk.


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## citygator (Sep 22, 2020)

westwall said:


> Your OP is intellectually deficient. Didn't keep you from posting it though, did it.


Wow. Sterling logic there. Once you Velcro your shoes on this morning and get the blood flowing, try again.


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## Penelope (Sep 22, 2020)

SeaGal said:


> citygator said:
> 
> 
> > By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.
> ...



Only a handful of U.S. states require employers to check an employee’s eligibility and their SSN through E-Verify, a Department of Homeland Security database. Other states have varying levels of E-Verify requirements, from partial to none. 

and also many pay taxes as evidence by 

An *ITIN*, or Individual Taxpayer Identification Number, is a tax processing number only available for certain nonresident and resident aliens, their spouses, and dependents who cannot get a Social Security Number (SSN). It is a 9-digit number, beginning with the number "9", formatted like an SSN (NNN-NN-NNNN).

*Taxpayer Identification Numbers (TIN) | Internal Revenue ...*
*----------------------------------------*
they deserve to be counted.  They use our resources, but Tramp messed with the census, you know why, to give less federal dollars to the states.


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## SeaGal (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> I never claimed tax payers only should vote. There are non tax payers under represented by the senate as well. So I don’t think that logic holds.
> 
> Congress is nearly representative. Not perfect because of 435 cap. No issues there.  But 2 for 40M Californians and 2 for 0.5M Wyoming citizens is bunk.



Did you not use the phrase 'taxation without representation' as a call to change the number of Senators per state? The House is the fast train, the Senate applies the brakes.

btw - Congress is both the House and the Senate

If you want to amend the Constitution, re-make the structure of government plus alter the system of checks and balances it would be a good idea to first understand how it all works.

Do you think it's fair that those who don't pay federal income tax get the same representation as those who do?


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## Bob Blaylock (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation.



  This demonstrates exactly why the Senate was composed as it was, to represent all states equally, while the House of Representative is composed to represent the people equally.

  Without the Senate representing the states, as it does, with the scenario that you describe, of 70% of the population inhabiting 15 out of the 50 states, this means that those 15 states would dominate the federal government, and the inhabitants of the remaining 35 state would be effectively disenfranchised.


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## westwall (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> westwall said:
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> 
> > Your OP is intellectually deficient. Didn't keep you from posting it though, did it.
> ...









Why bother.  Your ability to discuss anything with logic and reason doesn't exist.

Of COURSE  the Senate was designed undemocratic.   We are a REPUBLIC.   Learn what that means before you carry on like a petulant child.


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## Disir (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.
> 
> How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.
> 
> ...


No.


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## SeaGal (Sep 22, 2020)

Penelope said:


> Only a handful of U.S. states require employers to check an employee’s eligibility and their SSN through E-Verify, a Department of Homeland Security database. Other states have varying levels of E-Verify requirements, from partial to none.
> 
> and also many pay taxes as evidence by
> 
> ...



Nonresident and resident aliens are here legally.  

Those here illegally should not be represented in Congress...nor should they be supported by those here legally and/or taxpaying citizens.  

Even so, we Americans are very generous to those who defy our immigration laws. We provide free schooling and treatment at any hospital.


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## TheParser (Sep 22, 2020)

I respectfully disagree that the Senate will "break" the United States.

What will eventually break the United States will  be the lack of character & decency of many Americans in the coming decades.


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## Correll (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.
> 
> How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.
> 
> ...




That was the point. If anything, we made a mistake switching to direct election of senators.

What you want, means that those 15 states completely oppress the rest. 


THAT is a receipt for oppression and then revolution.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Sep 22, 2020)

occupied said:


> The senate was created the way it was expressly to protect the interests of the rich from the rabble. A direct analog of the British house of lords. Until McConnell came along they kept that on the downlow but now it's right in our faces: the senate's purpose is to make democracy ineffective.


Actually idiot the Senate was Chosen by the state legislatures. Then it was changed by leftist Wilson to be elected by the people


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## Penelope (Sep 22, 2020)

SeaGal said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > Only a handful of U.S. states require employers to check an employee’s eligibility and their SSN through E-Verify, a Department of Homeland Security database. Other states have varying levels of E-Verify requirements, from partial to none.
> ...



I disagree. Some of them are here illegally and they use our resources.  Tramp hired illegals and he didn't check e-verify.

Since they use our schools and have admission to our hosps, drive on the street, rent homes and apts, they need to be counted.

Do nursing home residents not receive representation, do seniors not need representation, do disabled not need representation,

They need more , not less.


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## citygator (Sep 22, 2020)

Bob Blaylock said:


> citygator said:
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> > By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation.
> ...


You speak as if a bordered entity should have any say in matters. It doesn’t. The people do. You’re not disenfranchised by having an equal voice.


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## citygator (Sep 22, 2020)

westwall said:


> citygator said:
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You moron. Republic is a form of democracy where representatives chosen by people form laws. It has nothing to do with unequal representation. Speaking of unequal, your intellect is unequal to mine. Go find some people to help you out. You’re over matched. There are good debaters on here. You are not one.


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## citygator (Sep 22, 2020)

Correll said:


> citygator said:
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> > By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.
> ...


We are just arguing over who is oppressed. In your version people with a current voice that is worth more than others would be “oppressed” if placed on equal footing. In my version people who currently have less of a voice than others are “oppressed”.  I think I won that argument.


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## Correll (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> Correll said:
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No, you didn't. Rule of the Mob, might be democratic, but it is not Just, nor Enlightened. 


That was the compact, that basis of our nation. That the RIghts of the Individuals would be respected. 


IN our version, the individuals in the smaller states, will never have their interests or rights respected again. 


In mine, they, well complete out weighted in the House and in Presidential elections, at least have a voice and some sway in the Senate, ie One half of ONE of THREE branches of government.


Try to be less greedy.


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## Blues Man (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.
> 
> How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.
> 
> ...


The house of Reps makes up for the only 2 senators per state.


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## citygator (Sep 22, 2020)

Correll said:


> citygator said:
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But again, you’re choosing whose wishes to protect more than others - not rights. Rights are guaranteed to all via the constitution regardless of color, race, or which state you live in. Those rights are unbreakable. Now the wishes of governing through legislation should be based on equal representation. Otherwise you are choosing to weight the wishes of Montana citizens above California citizens on mutual decisions. Montana citizens can legislate their state laws to their heart’s desire.


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## Polishprince (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.
> 
> How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.
> 
> ...



Senators are sent to Washington to represent their own sovereign states who are all equal.

Much like the UN, where India gets the same vote in the General Assembly as does less population states like Uruguay and Albania.


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## citygator (Sep 22, 2020)

Blues Man said:


> citygator said:
> 
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> > By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.
> ...


Not when there is no checks by the house on the senate’s power.


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## Wyatt earp (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.
> 
> How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.
> 
> ...


What more do you and the article want you have the 17th amendment and for the millionth time the Senate was for state rights not people's rights


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## Correll (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


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1. Except that you people have shown that you are all about taking away those rights.

2. AND, no. This nation is an union of STATES, and each state was promised a certain level of balance between the larger and smaller states. Changing the rules after the deal is done, is Unjust. And breaks the Contract.


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## Damaged Eagle (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.
> 
> How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.
> 
> ...







You're under the mistaken belief that the United States is a democracy.

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

*****SMILE*****


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## Correll (Sep 22, 2020)

bear513 said:


> citygator said:
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> > By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.
> ...




What he wants is unfettered mob rule.


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## Wyatt earp (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> SeaGal said:
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This post is a perfect example of why our school system failed us you don't know how are government works


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## citygator (Sep 22, 2020)

Correll said:


> citygator said:
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1. Terrible ad hominem attack with no basis 

2.Better but flawed.  It assumes everything in the original creating of the constitution was perfect. It wasn’t. This was a compromise like the 3/5ths compromise. It was flawed and unjust. Saying it is right cuz that’s how it was created is a bad argument.


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## my2¢ (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> *By 2040* 70% of Americans will live in 15 states



I find this population prediction rather presumptive.  Thus the premise upon which argument is made could very well be similar to the Great Horse Manure Crisis of 1894.  Or jokingly categorized as a load of crap.


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## citygator (Sep 22, 2020)

bear513 said:


> What more do you and the article want you have the 17th amendment and for the millionth time the Senate was for state rights not people's rights





Correll said:


> What he wants is unfettered mob rule.


How is equal representation mob rule?


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## Wyatt earp (Sep 22, 2020)

Penelope said:


> SeaGal said:
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Yeah they need to be counted right out the door


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## citygator (Sep 22, 2020)

bear513 said:


> This post is a perfect example of why our school system failed us you don't know how are government works


This thread is about how the structure is flawed. I obviously know how it works, just don’t agree with how it is structured. Your claim of schools failing me is incorrect and a ripoff of my comeback yesterday.


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## Wyatt earp (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> bear513 said:
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> > What more do you and the article want you have the 17th amendment and for the millionth time the Senate was for state rights not people's rights
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It's not mov rule each state gets two senators what's the point then of having the house and senate ?


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## Wyatt earp (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> bear513 said:
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> > This post is a perfect example of why our school system failed us you don't know how are government works
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It's only flawed if you have the mistaken belief that we are a democracy, we are not if we where gay marriage would still be illegal.the people of california voted No to gay marriage


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## Correll (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


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1. You libs have people in jail, for defending themselves from mobs. For one limited example.

2. I assume nothing. The Union was founded based on the States being equal with each other. Changing the rules of the contract after the deal is done, invalidates the contract. 

This is you.


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## theHawk (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.
> 
> How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.
> 
> ...



You can always move to Africa after the election and live in peace without racism for the rest of your life.


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## Correll (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> bear513 said:
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> > What more do you and the article want you have the 17th amendment and for the millionth time the Senate was for state rights not people's rights
> ...




Because liberals like you, do not respect limitations on government power. The more power we give you, the less you will pay attention to the limits. 


The courts will just become  a rubber stamp for whatever "right" the latest fad group makes up, and the long suffering normal Americans will have to just take it, or rise up in rebellion, because they won't have any voice.


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## Mikeoxenormous (Sep 22, 2020)

occupied said:


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No it isnt, it is stopping the "give away the house for a vote" policy that the progs use.  If you cant earn a living and be a citizen of the US, then you shouldnt be allowed to vote for the people who keep you poor.


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## Bob Blaylock (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> You speak as if a bordered entity should have any say in matters. It doesn’t. The people do. You’re not disenfranchised by having an equal voice.



  Your ignorance about the very good and wise reasons that the great men who founded this nation set up our Congress the way that they did is not really an argument; just an expression of your own ignorance.


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## citygator (Sep 22, 2020)

theHawk said:


> citygator said:
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> > By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.
> ...


Wow. So clever. You must be one of the uneducated Trump lives.


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## citygator (Sep 22, 2020)

Correll said:


> citygator said:
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> > bear513 said:
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How does that address how much power we give individuals? Right now some individuals have much more say in governing than others only related to what state they live in... that is the injustice.  You are justifying the injustice because right now you like the group that is over represented.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> andaronjim said:
> 
> 
> > 50% of Americans pay no taxes, so why the fuck should they be represented?
> ...


Or people who work under the table? How about property owners who pay a lot more in taxes? I pay more than you, I am more educated than you and my vote should count more than yours. But it doesn’t. We all have rules and laws we don’t agree with.


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## Wyatt earp (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > citygator said:
> ...


No it doesn't we are a nation made up of 50 states, what is normal in california is considered insane in oklahoma that's what the left refuses to acknowledge


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > citygator said:
> ...


Hold on a second. If I am in a room with nine other people and they are 18 year old pot heads who live with their parents, don’t pay taxes, don’t contribute to society but their votes represent 90% while mine is only 10%, how is that fair? It isn’t. Those states who have larger populations have greater representation in the House.

How is it fair in MA where Democrats run this state for those who disagree with many of their political stances? It isn’t. I can move. Such as life.


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## citygator (Sep 22, 2020)

Bob Blaylock said:


> citygator said:
> 
> 
> > You speak as if a bordered entity should have any say in matters. It doesn’t. The people do. You’re not disenfranchised by having an equal voice.
> ...


What is that reason?  If you read up on it you’d find that the only reason is to bring compromise so the states would enter union. Not related to any equity argument about representation.


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## citygator (Sep 22, 2020)

bear513 said:


> citygator said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


We are just talking about what was ceded to the federal governments.  Feds can’t make you wear masks. Your governor can though.  That remains unaffected. Why should a representative of 250k Montana citizens get the same say as 20m Californians?


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## Correll (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > citygator said:
> ...




There are two processes in play. Your desire to have larger states dominate the smaller and your desire for mob rule.


You are holding more power in the larger states so you want to use a more democratic system as a way to get to "mob rule" faster.


I want neither. I want the states to be equal and I want individual rights to be respected. 


We are completely at odds.


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## theHawk (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> > citygator said:
> ...


I just don’t understand how you can go on contributing to an inherently racist system of capitalism, colonialism, and government after you lose the election.


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## Correll (Sep 22, 2020)

theHawk said:


> citygator said:
> 
> 
> > theHawk said:
> ...




IF they believe the shit they say, moving away or rising up in revolution, would be the only things they could do.


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## Wyatt earp (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > citygator said:
> ...


Because in theory it doesn't, one rep for the people in the house based on population and two for the state in the Senate, I am getting tired of this silly argument with people who are ignorant about why our government is set up.


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## citygator (Sep 22, 2020)

Correll said:


> citygator said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


I want individuals to be equal and state rights respected.  I like mine better.  So would you if you were unequal.


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## citygator (Sep 22, 2020)

theHawk said:


> citygator said:
> 
> 
> > theHawk said:
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You should have stopped on the fourth word. Could be on your crest like “winter is coming”:

TheHawk “I just don’t understand”


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## citygator (Sep 22, 2020)

bear513 said:


> citygator said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...


Your silly response is “because that’s the way it is”.  That makes no sense. You havent put forth an argument for “why” other than “it is”.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Sep 22, 2020)

Penelope said:


> SeaGal said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...



*Since they use our schools and have admission to our hosps, drive on the street, rent homes and apts, they need to be counted. *

I agree, we need to count them and immediately deport them


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## Toddsterpatriot (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> Rights are guaranteed to all via the constitution regardless of color, race, or which state you live in.



You have the right to vote for one Representative and two Senators.
So do the citizens of the smallest states.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > citygator said:
> ...



*Why should a representative of 250k Montana citizens get the same say as 20m Californians? *

Because the Constitution says so.
If you don't like it, you're free to move to Montana.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> I want individuals to be equal and state rights respected.



The current system respects state rights better than your alternative.


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## Wyatt earp (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > citygator said:
> ...





citygator said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > citygator said:
> ...


The Constitution is a silly response?

Once again in our undemocratic constitutional republic :

Abortion became legal

Gay marriage became legal

The dream act is here to stay, if we where a democracy / mob rule those things would be illegal today.

The Senate is for state rights the house is for peoples rights


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## Wyatt earp (Sep 22, 2020)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> citygator said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...


He is just playing stupid california has what 53 house members divided by 20 million is what roughly 500,000 people


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## Wyatt earp (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > citygator said:
> ...


What's the point having the house and senate if they have equal people's reps? Just get rid of the Senate then


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## BlueGin (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.
> 
> How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.
> 
> ...


Says the party of anti American activists that keep threatening to burn it all down.


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## SeaGal (Sep 22, 2020)

Penelope said:


> SeaGal said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...


 

People who are here illegally - those who've snuck in through the back door or those who've let their visas expire are not entitled to be counted for apportionment purposes.

You feed someone a meal and they are then entitled to move into your house and join you for all meals henceforth?  That's crazy talk. 
If you believe that our generosity in providing free education and medical care entitles non-citizens to be counted for the purpose of selecting US Representatives then perhaps we should withdraw that generosity. 

btw - If you are unsure of the meaning of 'illegal', google it.  The disabled, seniors and nursing home residents (hopefully not in New York) who are citizens are not illegal - that red herring don't hunt.


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## citygator (Sep 22, 2020)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> citygator said:
> 
> 
> > I want individuals to be equal and state rights respected.
> ...


Bullshit as the President cuts funding and refuses support for blue states. That never ever happened before. Now that one party is abusing their over representation with circumventing funding laws ala repurposing defense funds for immigration and obstructing judicial nominations there is not respect of states anymore. Only respect of party states.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > citygator said:
> ...



*Bullshit as the President cuts funding and refuses support for blue states. That never ever happened before.  *

Ahhhhhh.......aren't you cute?


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## Coyote (Sep 22, 2020)

Correll said:


> citygator said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



I totally get that "tyranny of the majority" (ie mob rule) can be a problem, but what about tyranny of the minority?  When the vast majority of people are represented by a minority of elected officials because of the way the system is set?  If we start to see more and more elections with the winner losing the popular vote, but winning the electoral vote - that could be a problem.


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## Coyote (Sep 22, 2020)

SeaGal said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > SeaGal said:
> ...



Where does it state that?


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## progressive hunter (Sep 22, 2020)

Coyote said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > citygator said:
> ...


the electoral college protects us from the tyranny of the minority,,,


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## Wyatt earp (Sep 22, 2020)

Coyote said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > citygator said:
> ...


It's only a people's to commie Americans who hates the constitution.


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## SeaGal (Sep 22, 2020)

Coyote said:


> SeaGal said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...



Unfortunately our 'uninvited guests' do get a seat at the Congressional table.  The above is my opinion.


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## Correll (Sep 22, 2020)

citygator said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > citygator said:
> ...




So, you never thought there would be any blow back for people like you? Why is that? What makes you so special? IN your mind of course.


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## Correll (Sep 22, 2020)

Coyote said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > citygator said:
> ...




Except we aren't doing "tyranny" but simply governing according to our laws and traditions. 


We aren't the ones with vicious  mobs killing people in the streets, or equally vicious mobs doxxing people and destroying their lives because of a fucking halloween  custom from twenty years ago, or arresting people for defending themselves from vicious attacks or, ect ect ect.


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## citygator (Sep 22, 2020)

Correll said:


> citygator said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Gotcha!  Prior post was about our system respecting rights then you last posted my rights don’t deserve respect. Shit. That was fucking great. Thanks for being my bitch. Love being proved right.

Got you.


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2020)

citygator said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > citygator said:
> ...




You conflated two complaints, one the way the system is set up and another the way that republicans are governing. I addressed the second point. 

When you start a fight, and the person you are fighting, fights back, whining about them fighting you back, is you being a pussy.


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## Osiris-ODS (Sep 23, 2020)

citygator said:


> By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.
> 
> How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.
> 
> ...





Damaged Eagle said:


> ...
> 
> "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
> 
> *****SMILE*****



Yeah, well I just heard Joe Biden recite the pledge, and that's not how it goes according to him . . . for real


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## Prof.Lunaphile (Sep 23, 2020)

citygator said:


> By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators.


The Senate was not designed to represent people. It was designed to represent states. 


citygator said:


> Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.
> 
> How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we


Somebody is way ahead of everybody.





						A Better Subdivisioning of the Three-part Model will Provide Better Checks & Balances
					

http://www.us4cc.info



					www.usmessageboard.com
				








						United States Fourth Continental Congress
					

The United States Fourth Continental Congress (US4CC) will probably be the designation for the inevitable venue that orders the succeeding charter to the subsisting United States Constitution that was composed in 1787 by the legendary Philadelphia Convention, which for convenience for...



					www.usmessageboard.com
				











						SLCS - US4CC
					

US4CC




					www.us4cc.info


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## Missourian (Sep 23, 2020)

citygator said:


> By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.
> 
> How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.
> 
> ...


The Founding Fathers in their infinite wisdom created a mechanism to rectify this situation.  So hop to it and amend the Constitution.


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## citygator (Sep 23, 2020)

Missourian said:


> The Founding Fathers in their infinite wisdom created a mechanism to rectify this situation. So hop to it and amend the Constitution


Great idea. Which thread do I do that in?


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## Missourian (Sep 23, 2020)

citygator said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> > The Founding Fathers in their infinite wisdom created a mechanism to rectify this situation. So hop to it and amend the Constitution
> ...







__





						Ways to Amend the Constitution
					






					bensguide.gpo.gov


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## Prof.Lunaphile (Sep 23, 2020)

citygator said:


> Great idea. Which thread do I do that in?








						United States Fourth Continental Congress
					

The United States Fourth Continental Congress (US4CC) will probably be the designation for the inevitable venue that orders the succeeding charter to the subsisting United States Constitution that was composed in 1787 by the legendary Philadelphia Convention, which for convenience for...



					www.usmessageboard.com
				



Convention of States


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