# If North Korea can make a Progressive Utopia, why can't we?



## Neotrotsky

If North Korea can make a Progressive Utopia, why can't we?

Comrades, 

it does sadden me to see the socialist success of the People's Paradise of DPRK 
when compared to ours. How do we know this to be true, because the people of 
DPRK have told us so- 

just watch the video to see the truth 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9HxGhIo-6k]Life in the People's Paradise of DPRK - YouTube[/ame]

True compatriots in the Progressive cause 

What do they owe to their success? They have gone the whole way into the progressive cause... 

_ Everything in the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State_ 


Where as we, have taken the failed path of legislative socialism. The process is too slow 
and it is failing us.
The recent S&P downgrade marks extinction for 19th-20th century progressivism.

What tools do we have left? 
- interest rates are low as they can go to go any good 
- we can't tax anyone enough without crashing the economy 
- how much can we debt spend since we are broke 
- we can't not allow true reforms to entitlements which limit the state's role 

Traditionally, the progressive movement following the advice of past Socialist Party leaders like Presidential candidate Eugene Debs, 
has tried to legislate our way to it and thankfully, with the help of Democrats and RINOs, 
we have moved the country in the direction of a socialist utopia, but it is too slow and it appears to be failing. 

Now while the slow creeping attempts to legislate ourselves to a Progressive Utopia 
served its purpose to "slowly boil the frog in hot water" to where they, the American voter, won't jump out, I say it is no longer necessary. 

We are ready NOW to take the "revolutionary" logical next step and go full speed into 
the arms of the state- A true and full socialist utopia just like North Korea. 

*The time is now! Everything is in place. 
*
There is a Record Number of American Receiving Food Stamp Benefits 

Papa Obama and the Democrats have gotten an early endorsement from the CPUSA


As Eugene V Debs said: 

_The issue is Socialism versus Capitalism. I am for Socialism because I am for humanity. We have been cursed with the reign of gold long enough. 
Money constitutes no proper basis of civilization. *The time has come to regenerate society &#8212; we are on the eve of universal change.*_


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## CrusaderFrank

Obama and the Dems want to cut our power so we too will live it pitch darkness at night


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## Neotrotsky

CrusaderFrank said:


> Obama and the Dems want to cut our power so we too will live it pitch darkness at night



Yes I see that

a great cause global war... er global cool... er Climate Change.
Good thing for us the solution is for more gov't control. 


Really Frank,

capitalism and socialist progressive goals do not mix well
How much from the producers can we take before they unable to produce?

The only solution is for the gov't to control all factors of production.
Why should the gov't legislate, when it can just take!



If we are to survive the looming catastrophe, we need to face the truth
_
 The idea that a capitalist economy can support a socialist welfare state is collapsing before our eyes...

 We have arrived at the endgame of what was an untenable doctrine: to pay for the kind of entitlements that populations have been led to expect by their politicians, the wealth-creating sector has to be taxed to a degree that makes it almost impossible for it to create the wealth that is needed to pay for the entitlements that populations have been led to expect, etc, etc.

 The only way that state benefit programmes could be extended in the ways that are forecast for Europe&#8217;s ageing population would be by government seizing all the levers of the economy and producing as much (externally) worthless currency as was needed &#8211; in the manner of the old Soviet Union.

 That is the problem. So profound is its challenge to the received wisdom of postwar Western democratic life that it is unutterable in the EU circles in which the crucial decisions are being made &#8211; or rather, not being made. &#8230;

 We have been pretending &#8211; with ever more manic protestations &#8211; that this could go on for ever. Even when it became clear that European state pensions (and the US social security system) were gigantic Ponzi schemes in which the present beneficiaries were spending the money of the current generation of contributors, and that health provision was creating impossible demands on tax revenue, and that benefit dependency was becoming a substitute for wealth-creating employment, the lesson would not be learnt. We have been living on tick and wishful thinking.


_​


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## Rozman

Thanks for the video.It will give the Libs on here wet dreams tonight as this is their hope for the USA.Where Government provides everything and we want for nothing....

Tell you one thing though...Korean chicks are friggin HOT.....


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## Neotrotsky

Rozman said:


> Thanks for the video.It will give the Libs on here wet dreams tonight as this is their hope for the USA.Where Government provides everything and we want for nothing....
> 
> Tell you one thing though...Korean chicks are friggin HOT.....



Yes indeed!
She also appears to be thin and shapely; no doubt from their successful food programs

Expect more of that in our "New Brave World"

After all, reproduction is too important of a factor of production to be
controlled by the individual.


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## peach174

You do realize that the majority of that country is starving to death don't you?
Only one city has electricity and the rest of the country, people have no heat during the winter.No plumbing in their homes.
Farmers have no equipment, like tractors to farm their crops.
What utopia?
Oh I see, he's a New Yorker who lives in a apartment the size of a broom closet and pays 1,800.00 for  rent per month or more and the city is being over run with rats. 
Oh yes, that utopia alright.
Your nuts.
Your dream world is only in your head and is not going to happen because we have a Constitution so that totalitarianism will not happen to us.
Socialism had always failed.
Progressivism is what is ruing us right now, and the cause of why we have no jobs or growth.


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## Neotrotsky

peach174 said:


> You do realize that the majority of that country is starving to death don't you?
> Only one city has electricity and the rest of the country, people have no heat during the winter.No plumbing in their homes.
> Farmers have no equipment, like tractors to farm their crops.
> What utopia?
> Oh I see, he's a New Yorker who lives in a apartment the size of a broom closet and pays 1,800.00 for  rent per month or more and the city is being over run with rats.
> Oh yes, that utopia alright.
> Your nuts.
> Your dream world is only in your head and is not going to happen because we have a Constitution so that totalitarianism will not happen to us.
> Socialism had always failed.
> Progressivism is what is ruing us right now, and the cause of why we have no jobs or growth.



Lies Lies from corporations and right wing racists and tea party members

Everyone knows that socialism works best


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## Sallow

North Korea isn't progressive at all. It's quite conservative. They don't allow voting. And government is passed down from family to family.

They don't even call themselves "progressive".

It's the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

North Korea

And thanks to America..South Korea doesn't spend much on it's military. So that leaves it money for many socialist programs..like Socialized Medicine.


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## Full-Auto

peach174 said:


> You do realize that the majority of that country is starving to death don't you?
> Only one city has electricity and the rest of the country, people have no heat during the winter.No plumbing in their homes.
> Farmers have no equipment, like tractors to farm their crops.
> What utopia?
> Oh I see, he's a New Yorker who lives in a apartment the size of a broom closet and pays 1,800.00 for  rent per month or more and the city is being over run with rats.
> Oh yes, that utopia alright.
> Your nuts.
> Your dream world is only in your head and is not going to happen because we have a Constitution so that totalitarianism will not happen to us.
> Socialism had always failed.
> Progressivism is what is ruing us right now, and the cause of why we have no jobs or growth.



Parody, sarcasm, a jab to the tender under belly and soft heads of the left.


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## Neotrotsky

Sallow said:


> North Korea isn't progressive at all. It's quite conservative. They don't allow voting. And government is passed down from family to family.
> 
> They don't even call themselves "progressive".
> 
> It's the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
> 
> North Korea
> 
> And thanks to America..South Korea doesn't spend much on it's military. So that leaves it money for many socialist programs..like Socialized Medicine.



It is a full CPE - it depends on large gov't
It is a creature of the Left 
thank goodness

No even in the video she thanks their leader
for having a socialist state, right at the end 

Progressive, socialist ,  it is all the same stuff
The Left knows that the labels like liberals and socialists
are losers, so they try to "reinvent" themselves

They have voting- just like the Soviet Union 
Granted only one party is on the ticket
Just think of it like Democrats and RINOs


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## Unkotare

Sallow said:


> And thanks to America..South Korea doesn't spend much on it's military.




Are you kidding? That's ridiculous.


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## peach174

Yeah right, pictures don't lie you brain washed communist.
ABC News obtains rare footage of North Korean children, soldiers starving | The Right Scoop
Never mind that countries from all over the world are bringing in food to them and it isn't reaching them because of the corruption there.


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## Sallow

Unkotare said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> And thanks to America..South Korea doesn't spend much on it's military.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you kidding? That's ridiculous.
Click to expand...


Neither does Israel or Egypt.

That sound ridiculous?

Well yeah..it is.


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## WillowTree

peach174 said:


> You do realize that the majority of that country is starving to death don't you?
> Only one city has electricity and the rest of the country, people have no heat during the winter.No plumbing in their homes.
> Farmers have no equipment, like tractors to farm their crops.
> What utopia?
> Oh I see, he's a New Yorker who lives in a apartment the size of a broom closet and pays 1,800.00 for  rent per month or more and the* city is being over run with rats. *Oh yes, that utopia alright.
> Your nuts.
> Your dream world is only in your head and is not going to happen because we have a Constitution so that totalitarianism will not happen to us.
> Socialism had always failed.
> Progressivism is what is ruing us right now, and the cause of why we have no jobs or growth.






yes, darlink,, we know, we calls em dimoRats.


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## Full-Auto

Shaking the tree boss, shaking the tree


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## CrusaderFrank

Sallow said:


> North Korea isn't progressive at all. It's quite conservative. They don't allow voting. And government is passed down from family to family.
> 
> They don't even call themselves "progressive".
> 
> It's the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
> 
> North Korea
> 
> And thanks to America..South Korea doesn't spend much on it's military. So that leaves it money for many socialist programs..like Socialized Medicine.



It's the Progressive Ideological Mecca.

The State controls everything.

Welcome Home, Sallow


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## Sallow

Neotrotsky said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> North Korea isn't progressive at all. It's quite conservative. They don't allow voting. And government is passed down from family to family.
> 
> They don't even call themselves "progressive".
> 
> It's the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
> 
> North Korea
> 
> And thanks to America..South Korea doesn't spend much on it's military. So that leaves it money for many socialist programs..like Socialized Medicine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a full CPE - it depends on large gov't
> It is a creature of the Left
> thank goodness
> 
> No even in the video she thanks their leader
> for having a socialist state, right at the end
> 
> 
> They have voting- just like the Soviet Union
> Granted only one party is on the ticket
> Just think of it like Democrats and RINOs
Click to expand...


Depend on large government? Bahahahahahahaha..

Government in North Korea provides shit for it's people. You are basically on your own. There is a small monied class and a large class with bupkis. You'd know this if you ever spend even the SLIGHTEST amount of time in the region. They are alot like Mexico. North Koreans are trying to sneak into every other Asian nation. One of the first things the Chinese did when they took over Hong Kong was to kick out the poor people. If you were Chinese..you had to move to more rural areas you could afford. If you were North Korean, you get sent back to North Korea. I was THERE when that was happening. The Chinese got rid of all the boat people in Aberdeen bay..and the North Koreans were protesting deportation.

Aside from that..you guys are literalists. And North Korea as a nation calls itself a Democratic Republic.


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## Sallow

CrusaderFrank said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> North Korea isn't progressive at all. It's quite conservative. They don't allow voting. And government is passed down from family to family.
> 
> They don't even call themselves "progressive".
> 
> It's the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
> 
> North Korea
> 
> And thanks to America..South Korea doesn't spend much on it's military. So that leaves it money for many socialist programs..like Socialized Medicine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the Progressive Ideological Mecca.
> 
> The State controls everything.
> 
> Welcome Home, Sallow
Click to expand...


Personally? I think North Korea is a military dictatorship. And if your last name was Kim..you'd be happy.

It's more of a Conservative Utopia. They spend all their money on news toys that kill people. And nothing on the people.

Sounds like something you'd like. Two fisted indivdualism. 

Cause you're on your own.


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## Rozman

Maybe in our utopia where President Obama planted his little seed we will eventually call it....
*The peoples Republic of I told you yes we can and Yes I did...totally F it up land*


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## Neotrotsky

Sallow said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> North Korea isn't progressive at all. It's quite conservative. They don't allow voting. And government is passed down from family to family.
> 
> They don't even call themselves "progressive".
> 
> It's the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
> 
> North Korea
> 
> And thanks to America..South Korea doesn't spend much on it's military. So that leaves it money for many socialist programs..like Socialized Medicine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a full CPE - it depends on large gov't
> It is a creature of the Left
> thank goodness
> 
> No even in the video she thanks their leader
> for having a socialist state, right at the end
> 
> 
> They have voting- just like the Soviet Union
> Granted only one party is on the ticket
> Just think of it like Democrats and RINOs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Depend on large government? Bahahahahahahaha..
> 
> Government in North Korea provides shit for it's people. You are basically on your own. There is a small monied class and a large class with bupkis. You'd know this if you ever spend even the SLIGHTEST amount of time in the region. They are alot like Mexico. North Koreans are trying to sneak into every other Asian nation. One of the first things the Chinese did when they took over Hong Kong was to kick out the poor people. If you were Chinese..you had to move to more rural areas you could afford. If you were North Korean, you get sent back to North Korea. I was THERE when that was happening. The Chinese got rid of all the boat people in Aberdeen bay..and the North Koreans were protesting deportation.
> 
> Aside from that..you guys are literalists. And North Korea as a nation calls itself a Democratic Republic.
Click to expand...



Every socialist state has an inner party, we are all equal, some are just more 
equal than others.

You don't expect our leaders and their associates to be the same as the masses.
After all, they work very hard for us. 
Do you really think Papa Obama and you are going to get the same medical treatment
under Papa ObamaCare.

For example, 
He sends his kids to private school while denying vouchers for poor black kids
to go to the same school. 

Vacations while the nation unemployed increases 

Please, if you believe that I have a Pork Stimulus Bill to sell you


----------



## Toome

I served two tours in Korea.  The situation between north and south is unlike any other with regards to split nations.  I thought by now the north's regime would have collapsed and the two Koreas would be united as a democracy.  The north is a true anachronism on so many levels:

The fact that its leadership stays in the family being handed down from father to son flies in the face of everything socialism supposedly stands for.

The North Korean people are truly controlled by their government in every aspect of their lives.  While other regimes allowed the introduction of technology, albeit under very tight controls, the North Koreans have absolutely no access to the technology we take for granted.

It is incredible that such a society exists today.  The reason I thought the North would have been gone by now was based purely on the societal laws of motion.  If the rest of the world moves in a certain direction, even the most backward society has to move to some degree in the same direction.  North Korea has proven to be a glaring exception to that rule.  It is truly an anomaly.

I'm curious how many people in the West are naive enough to buy all the BS in that propaganda video.  As PT Barnum put it, there's a sucker born every minute!


----------



## Neotrotsky

Sallow said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> North Korea isn't progressive at all. It's quite conservative. They don't allow voting. And government is passed down from family to family.
> 
> They don't even call themselves "progressive".
> 
> It's the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
> 
> North Korea
> 
> And thanks to America..South Korea doesn't spend much on it's military. So that leaves it money for many socialist programs..like Socialized Medicine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the Progressive Ideological Mecca.
> 
> The State controls everything.
> 
> Welcome Home, Sallow
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Personally? I think North Korea is a military dictatorship. And if your last name was Kim..you'd be happy.
> 
> It's more of a Conservative Utopia. They spend all their money on news toys that kill people. And nothing on the people.
> 
> Sounds like something you'd like. Two fisted indivdualism.
> 
> Cause you're on your own.
Click to expand...


Socialism, communism, fascism, crony capitalism are all forms of some level of CPE's 
and share little with a true free market system. You may find some type of "comfort" 
in thinking North Korea is a child of the right and free markets, but you would be wrong.
North Korea depend on and thrive on a large and intrusive gov't or "big gov't", not small. 

 Indeed
 Peter Drucker
_"the complete collapse of the belief in the attainability of freedom and equality through Marxism has forced Russia to travel the same road
 toward a totalitarian society of un-freedom and inequality which Germany has been following. Not that communism and fascism are essentially the same.
 Fascism is the stage reached after communism has proved an illusion, and it has proved as much an illusion in Russia as in pre-Hitler Germany."_​
 As a side note:
 Stalin killed more people than Hitler 
 In fact, communism or some socialist variant of it have murdered more
 people than any other political system.


----------



## Sallow

Neotrotsky said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a full CPE - it depends on large gov't
> It is a creature of the Left
> thank goodness
> 
> No even in the video she thanks their leader
> for having a socialist state, right at the end
> 
> 
> They have voting- just like the Soviet Union
> Granted only one party is on the ticket
> Just think of it like Democrats and RINOs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depend on large government? Bahahahahahahaha..
> 
> Government in North Korea provides shit for it's people. You are basically on your own. There is a small monied class and a large class with bupkis. You'd know this if you ever spend even the SLIGHTEST amount of time in the region. They are alot like Mexico. North Koreans are trying to sneak into every other Asian nation. One of the first things the Chinese did when they took over Hong Kong was to kick out the poor people. If you were Chinese..you had to move to more rural areas you could afford. If you were North Korean, you get sent back to North Korea. I was THERE when that was happening. The Chinese got rid of all the boat people in Aberdeen bay..and the North Koreans were protesting deportation.
> 
> Aside from that..you guys are literalists. And North Korea as a nation calls itself a Democratic Republic.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Every socialist state has an inner party, we are all equal, some are just more
> equal than others.
> 
> You don't expect our leaders and their associates to be the same as the masses.
> After all, they work very hard for us.
> Do you really think Papa Obama and you are going to get the same medical treatment
> under Papa ObamaCare.
> 
> For example,
> He sends his kids to private school while denying vouchers for poor black kids
> to go to the same school.
> 
> Vacations while the nation unemployed increases
> 
> Please, if you believe that I have a Pork Stimulus Bill to sell you
Click to expand...


Ah..so essentially you have no fucking idea what you are talking about so you engage in this wishy washy crapola which essentially comes out like psychobabble and then try to tie it up in a neat little hyperbolic box.

North Korea is a barely functional state (and I say barely because they are able to provide the minimum to their population without devolving into anarchy because of riots and rebellion) that even so-called "Communist" countries like China and Russia (Who were suppose to be their "caretakers") want nothing to do with. The only reason China deals with them is they are on the border and a starving North Korean population creates a huge refugee problem for them.

China&#039;s North Korean Refugee Dilemma | World Policy Institute

Don't let that throw ya though. Bizzaro land is so much more comforting.


----------



## Neotrotsky

Toome said:


> I served two tours in Korea.  The situation between north and south is unlike any other with regards to split nations.  I thought by now the north's regime would have collapsed and the two Koreas would be united as a democracy.  The north is a true anachronism on so many levels:
> 
> The fact that its leadership stays in the family being handed down from father to son flies in the face of everything socialism supposedly stands for.
> 
> The North Korean people are truly controlled by their government in every aspect of their lives.  While other regimes allowed the introduction of technology, albeit under very tight controls, the North Koreans have absolutely no access to the technology we take for granted.
> 
> It is incredible that such a society exists today.  The reason I thought the North would have been gone by now was based purely on the societal laws of motion.  If the rest of the world moves in a certain direction, even the most backward society has to move to some degree in the same direction.  North Korea has proven to be a glaring exception to that rule.  It is truly an anomaly.
> 
> I'm curious how many people in the West are naive enough to buy all the BS in that propaganda video.  As PT Barnum put it, there's a sucker born every minute!



Falls in the face of what "socialism stands for" ?

You mean your idea of what socialism stands for, 
do you not?

After all, the Soviets were socialists as well, were they not?


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Sallow said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> North Korea isn't progressive at all. It's quite conservative. They don't allow voting. And government is passed down from family to family.
> 
> They don't even call themselves "progressive".
> 
> It's the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
> 
> North Korea
> 
> And thanks to America..South Korea doesn't spend much on it's military. So that leaves it money for many socialist programs..like Socialized Medicine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the Progressive Ideological Mecca.
> 
> The State controls everything.
> 
> Welcome Home, Sallow
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Personally? I think North Korea is a military dictatorship. And if your last name was Kim..you'd be happy.
> 
> It's more of a Conservative Utopia. They spend all their money on news toys that kill people. And nothing on the people.
> 
> Sounds like something you'd like. Two fisted indivdualism.
> 
> Cause you're on your own.
Click to expand...


Conservatives are for Freedom and Liberty, Progressives are for the State. 

ObamaCare? Tax the Rich!!!  All Progressive Jong Il ideas.


----------



## Sallow

Neotrotsky said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's the Progressive Ideological Mecca.
> 
> The State controls everything.
> 
> Welcome Home, Sallow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personally? I think North Korea is a military dictatorship. And if your last name was Kim..you'd be happy.
> 
> It's more of a Conservative Utopia. They spend all their money on news toys that kill people. And nothing on the people.
> 
> Sounds like something you'd like. Two fisted indivdualism.
> 
> Cause you're on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Socialism, communism, fascism, crony capitalism are all forms of some level of CPE's
> and share little with a true free market system. You may find some type of "comfort"
> in thinking North Korea is a child of the right and free markets, but you would be wrong.
> North Korea depend on and thrive on a large and intrusive gov't or "big gov't", not small.
> 
> Indeed
> Peter Drucker
> _"the complete collapse of the belief in the attainability of freedom and equality through Marxism has forced Russia to travel the same road
> toward a totalitarian society of un-freedom and inequality which Germany has been following. Not that communism and fascism are essentially the same.
> Fascism is the stage reached after communism has proved an illusion, and it has proved as much an illusion in Russia as in pre-Hitler Germany."_​
> As a side note:
> *Stalin killed more people than Hitler
> In fact, communism or some socialist variant of it have murdered more
> people than any other political system*.
Click to expand...


Total bullshit. While I am no fan of communism..when you spew these sort of factoids, you look like you have no idea what you are talking about. Except to others of the same ilk that believe that tripe.


----------



## yidnar

Sallow said:


> North Korea isn't progressive at all. It's quite conservative. They don't allow voting. And government is passed down from family to family.
> 
> They don't even call themselves "progressive".
> 
> It's the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
> 
> North Korea
> 
> And thanks to America..South Korea doesn't spend much on it's military. So that leaves it money for many socialist programs..like Socialized Medicine.


what the hell is conservative about a communist dictatorship???you people are the ones screaming for more government control !!


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## Neotrotsky

Sallow said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depend on large government? Bahahahahahahaha..
> 
> Government in North Korea provides shit for it's people. You are basically on your own. There is a small monied class and a large class with bupkis. You'd know this if you ever spend even the SLIGHTEST amount of time in the region. They are alot like Mexico. North Koreans are trying to sneak into every other Asian nation. One of the first things the Chinese did when they took over Hong Kong was to kick out the poor people. If you were Chinese..you had to move to more rural areas you could afford. If you were North Korean, you get sent back to North Korea. I was THERE when that was happening. The Chinese got rid of all the boat people in Aberdeen bay..and the North Koreans were protesting deportation.
> 
> Aside from that..you guys are literalists. And North Korea as a nation calls itself a Democratic Republic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every socialist state has an inner party, we are all equal, some are just more
> equal than others.
> 
> You don't expect our leaders and their associates to be the same as the masses.
> After all, they work very hard for us.
> Do you really think Papa Obama and you are going to get the same medical treatment
> under Papa ObamaCare.
> 
> For example,
> He sends his kids to private school while denying vouchers for poor black kids
> to go to the same school.
> 
> Vacations while the nation unemployed increases
> 
> Please, if you believe that I have a Pork Stimulus Bill to sell you
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah..so essentially you have no fucking idea what you are talking about so you engage in this wishy washy crapola which essentially comes out like psychobabble and then try to tie it up in a neat little hyperbolic box.
> 
> North Korea is a barely functional state (and I say barely because they are able to provide the minimum to their population without devolving into anarchy because of riots and rebellion) that even so-called "Communist" countries like China and Russia (Who were suppose to be their "caretakers") want nothing to do with. The only reason China deals with them is they are on the border and a starving North Korean population creates a huge refugee problem for them.
> 
> China's North Korean Refugee Dilemma | World Policy Institute
> 
> Don't let that throw ya though. Bizzaro land is so much more comforting.
Click to expand...


No,
 I was addressing your point about a minority ruling group.



North Korea is a fine example of a socialist state

You are just repeating racist right wing corporations lies

How could a full CPE that controls all the factors of production
go without

it is impossible- the State always knows what it is doing


----------



## Sallow

CrusaderFrank said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's the Progressive Ideological Mecca.
> 
> The State controls everything.
> 
> Welcome Home, Sallow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personally? I think North Korea is a military dictatorship. And if your last name was Kim..you'd be happy.
> 
> It's more of a Conservative Utopia. They spend all their money on news toys that kill people. And nothing on the people.
> 
> Sounds like something you'd like. Two fisted indivdualism.
> 
> Cause you're on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Conservatives are for Freedom and Liberty*, Progressives are for the State.
> 
> ObamaCare? Tax the Rich!!!  All Progressive Jong Il ideas.
Click to expand...


Absolutely not.

Conservatives are for status quo, homogeneous populations, fealty to governments like theocracies, aristocracies, dictatorships or monarchies. They are for tradition and like a strong hand ruling them.


----------



## yidnar

Sallow said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> North Korea isn't progressive at all. It's quite conservative. They don't allow voting. And government is passed down from family to family.
> 
> They don't even call themselves "progressive".
> 
> It's the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
> 
> North Korea
> 
> And thanks to America..South Korea doesn't spend much on it's military. So that leaves it money for many socialist programs..like Socialized Medicine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a full CPE - it depends on large gov't
> It is a creature of the Left
> thank goodness
> 
> No even in the video she thanks their leader
> for having a socialist state, right at the end
> 
> 
> They have voting- just like the Soviet Union
> Granted only one party is on the ticket
> Just think of it like Democrats and RINOs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Depend on large government? Bahahahahahahaha..
> 
> Government in North Korea provides shit for it's people. You are basically on your own. There is a small monied class and a large class with bupkis. You'd know this if you ever spend even the SLIGHTEST amount of time in the region. They are alot like Mexico. North Koreans are trying to sneak into every other Asian nation. One of the first things the Chinese did when they took over Hong Kong was to kick out the poor people. If you were Chinese..you had to move to more rural areas you could afford. If you were North Korean, you get sent back to North Korea. I was THERE when that was happening. The Chinese got rid of all the boat people in Aberdeen bay..and the North Koreans were protesting deportation.
> 
> Aside from that..you guys are literalists. And North Korea as a nation calls itself a Democratic Republic.
Click to expand...

well then give us an example of a socialist paradise!!!


----------



## Sallow

Neotrotsky said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every socialist state has an inner party, we are all equal, some are just more
> equal than others.
> 
> You don't expect our leaders and their associates to be the same as the masses.
> After all, they work very hard for us.
> Do you really think Papa Obama and you are going to get the same medical treatment
> under Papa ObamaCare.
> 
> For example,
> He sends his kids to private school while denying vouchers for poor black kids
> to go to the same school.
> 
> Vacations while the nation unemployed increases
> 
> Please, if you believe that I have a Pork Stimulus Bill to sell you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah..so essentially you have no fucking idea what you are talking about so you engage in this wishy washy crapola which essentially comes out like psychobabble and then try to tie it up in a neat little hyperbolic box.
> 
> North Korea is a barely functional state (and I say barely because they are able to provide the minimum to their population without devolving into anarchy because of riots and rebellion) that even so-called "Communist" countries like China and Russia (Who were suppose to be their "caretakers") want nothing to do with. The only reason China deals with them is they are on the border and a starving North Korean population creates a huge refugee problem for them.
> 
> China's North Korean Refugee Dilemma | World Policy Institute
> 
> Don't let that throw ya though. Bizzaro land is so much more comforting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No,
> I was addressing your point about a minority ruling group.
> 
> 
> 
> North Korea is a fine example of a socialist state
> 
> You are just *repeating racist right wing corporations lies*
> 
> How could a full CPE that controls all the factors of production
> go without
> 
> it is impossible- the State always knows what it is doing
Click to expand...


----------



## yidnar

Sallow said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Personally? I think North Korea is a military dictatorship. And if your last name was Kim..you'd be happy.
> 
> It's more of a Conservative Utopia. They spend all their money on news toys that kill people. And nothing on the people.
> 
> Sounds like something you'd like. Two fisted indivdualism.
> 
> Cause you're on your own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Conservatives are for Freedom and Liberty*, Progressives are for the State.
> 
> ObamaCare? Tax the Rich!!!  All Progressive Jong Il ideas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely not.
> 
> Conservatives are for status quo, homogeneous populations, fealty to governments like theocracies, aristocracies, dictatorships or monarchies. They are for tradition and like a strong hand ruling them.
Click to expand...

you just described communist!!!


----------



## Neotrotsky

Sallow said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Personally? I think North Korea is a military dictatorship. And if your last name was Kim..you'd be happy.
> 
> It's more of a Conservative Utopia. They spend all their money on news toys that kill people. And nothing on the people.
> 
> Sounds like something you'd like. Two fisted indivdualism.
> 
> Cause you're on your own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Socialism, communism, fascism, crony capitalism are all forms of some level of CPE's
> and share little with a true free market system. You may find some type of "comfort"
> in thinking North Korea is a child of the right and free markets, but you would be wrong.
> North Korea depend on and thrive on a large and intrusive gov't or "big gov't", not small.
> 
> Indeed
> Peter Drucker
> _"the complete collapse of the belief in the attainability of freedom and equality through Marxism has forced Russia to travel the same road
> toward a totalitarian society of un-freedom and inequality which Germany has been following. Not that communism and fascism are essentially the same.
> Fascism is the stage reached after communism has proved an illusion, and it has proved as much an illusion in Russia as in pre-Hitler Germany."_​
> As a side note:
> *Stalin killed more people than Hitler
> In fact, communism or some socialist variant of it have murdered more
> people than any other political system*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Total bullshit. While I am no fan of communism..when you spew these sort of factoids, you look like you have no idea what you are talking about. Except to others of the same ilk that believe that tripe.
Click to expand...



It is the truth
sorry  run all you want
Stalin killed more than even Hitler
If I  am wrong you must have some proof


65 million in the People's Republic of China
20 million in the Soviet Union
2 million in Cambodia
2 million in North Korea
1 million in Vietnam


Truth is hard for the Left
In fact, it is there worst enemy


----------



## Neotrotsky

yidnar said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> North Korea isn't progressive at all. It's quite conservative. They don't allow voting. And government is passed down from family to family.
> 
> They don't even call themselves "progressive".
> 
> It's the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
> 
> North Korea
> 
> And thanks to America..South Korea doesn't spend much on it's military. So that leaves it money for many socialist programs..like Socialized Medicine.
> 
> 
> 
> what the hell is conservative about a communist dictatorship???you people are the ones screaming for more government control !!
Click to expand...



The Left always has to hide from the history of the failed leftist political systems
For example, the great lie that fascism is not of the Left


I find it funny how the US Left tries to tell
you that people like Stalin, Mao etc

who called themselves socialists, called their gov'ts socialist
lived their whole lives promoting socialism 

were not socialists 

too funny

Statism is the problem
but don't worry 
we will get right
this time


----------



## CrusaderFrank

yidnar said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Conservatives are for Freedom and Liberty*, Progressives are for the State.
> 
> ObamaCare? Tax the Rich!!!  All Progressive Jong Il ideas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely not.
> 
> Conservatives are for status quo, homogeneous populations, fealty to governments like theocracies, aristocracies, dictatorships or monarchies. They are for tradition and like a strong hand ruling them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you just described communist!!!
Click to expand...


Is this the Democrat Party Platform or the Communist Party Platform?

"URGENT: No to cuts that hurt working people!
Tea Party Republicans are attempting to hold the country hostage by refusing to allow a routine adjustment in the nation's debt ceiling...

New Tax the rich flier
Download the new Save the nation! Tax the rich! PDF in both Spanish and English

Become a DREAMer
Sign on as a citizen co-sponsor to the DREAM Act."


----------



## Neotrotsky

CrusaderFrank said:


> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely not.
> 
> Conservatives are for status quo, homogeneous populations, fealty to governments like theocracies, aristocracies, dictatorships or monarchies. They are for tradition and like a strong hand ruling them.
> 
> 
> 
> you just described communist!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is this the Democrat Party Platform or the Communist Party Platform?
> 
> "URGENT: No to cuts that hurt working people!
> Tea Party Republicans are attempting to hold the country hostage by refusing to allow a routine adjustment in the nation's debt ceiling...
> 
> New Tax the rich flier
> Download the new Save the nation! Tax the rich! PDF in both Spanish and English
> 
> Become a DREAMer
> Sign on as a citizen co-sponsor to the DREAM Act."
Click to expand...


Didn't they say
_
"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, 
 with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility 
 and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions."
_​


----------



## Sallow

Neotrotsky said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Socialism, communism, fascism, crony capitalism are all forms of some level of CPE's
> and share little with a true free market system. You may find some type of "comfort"
> in thinking North Korea is a child of the right and free markets, but you would be wrong.
> North Korea depend on and thrive on a large and intrusive gov't or "big gov't", not small.
> 
> Indeed
> Peter Drucker
> _"the complete collapse of the belief in the attainability of freedom and equality through Marxism has forced Russia to travel the same road
> toward a totalitarian society of un-freedom and inequality which Germany has been following. Not that communism and fascism are essentially the same.
> Fascism is the stage reached after communism has proved an illusion, and it has proved as much an illusion in Russia as in pre-Hitler Germany."_​
> As a side note:
> *Stalin killed more people than Hitler
> In fact, communism or some socialist variant of it have murdered more
> people than any other political system*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Total bullshit. While I am no fan of communism..when you spew these sort of factoids, you look like you have no idea what you are talking about. Except to others of the same ilk that believe that tripe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is the truth
> sorry  run all you want
> Stalin killed more than even Hitler
> If I  am wrong you must have some proof
> 
> 
> 65 million in the People's Republic of China
> 20 million in the Soviet Union
> 2 million in Cambodia
> 2 million in North Korea
> 1 million in Vietnam
> 
> 
> Truth is hard for the Left
> In fact, it is there worst enemy
Click to expand...


The stats from South East Asia were all as a result of American Military actions. A conservative estimate of the bombings in Cambodia and Laos are about 1 million. And the US admits to killing at least 1.5 million Vietnamese troops. Factor in civilians you have about 2 million more.

65 million in China were the result of WWII and some really bad planning on the part of the Chinese government. This led to massive starvation. But it was hardly intentional.

Same with Stalin. Most of those deaths occured in WWII. The Russian/German front was the deadliest in the war.

Of course you try to aggregate this as a result of "Communism". You leave out stuff like the 3 million or so that died as a result of Ghandi's efforts in freeing India. When the Muslims and the Hindis split there was a massive die off of Humanity in that region. And of course you leave out America. Which has been responsible for massive death and misery around the world. Most notably Africa and South East Asia. Alot of which was intentional.

Like Hitler's efforts to continue what the Christians wanted done to the Jews in Europe.

The Pope backed it..as did history.


----------



## Sallow

CrusaderFrank said:


> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely not.
> 
> Conservatives are for status quo, homogeneous populations, fealty to governments like theocracies, aristocracies, dictatorships or monarchies. They are for tradition and like a strong hand ruling them.
> 
> 
> 
> you just described communist!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is this the Democrat Party Platform or the Communist Party Platform?
> 
> "URGENT: No to cuts that hurt working people!
> Tea Party Republicans are attempting to hold the country hostage by refusing to allow a routine adjustment in the nation's debt ceiling...
> 
> New Tax the rich flier
> Download the new Save the nation! Tax the rich! PDF in both Spanish and English
> 
> Become a DREAMer
> Sign on as a citizen co-sponsor to the DREAM Act."
Click to expand...


Taxes are communist?

Straight up?

Yes or no.


----------



## peach174

The Left always believes in the lies.
They can't accept facts as facts or the truth.
After all to them a fact is just an opinion.
Red is never Red it's just a certain type of shade of color. They will ague with you, if you state that 2+2 is 4.
How can you reason with people who think so insanely?
They argue the same point over and over again expecting different results.
Albert Einstein Quotes
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


----------



## yidnar

Sallow said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Total bullshit. While I am no fan of communism..when you spew these sort of factoids, you look like you have no idea what you are talking about. Except to others of the same ilk that believe that tripe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is the truth
> sorry  run all you want
> Stalin killed more than even Hitler
> If I  am wrong you must have some proof
> 
> 
> 65 million in the People's Republic of China
> 20 million in the Soviet Union
> 2 million in Cambodia
> 2 million in North Korea
> 1 million in Vietnam
> 
> 
> Truth is hard for the Left
> In fact, it is there worst enemy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The stats from South East Asia were all as a result of American Military actions. A conservative estimate of the bombings in Cambodia and Laos are about 1 million. And the US admits to killing at least 1.5 million Vietnamese troops. Factor in civilians you have about 2 million more.
> 
> 65 million in China were the result of WWII and some really bad planning on the part of the Chinese government. This led to massive starvation. But it was hardly intentional.
> 
> Same with Stalin. Most of those deaths occured in WWII. The Russian/German front was the deadliest in the war.
> 
> Of course you try to aggregate this as a result of "Communism". You leave out stuff like the 3 million or so that died as a result of Ghandi's efforts in freeing India. When the Muslims and the Hindis split there was a massive die off of Humanity in that region. And of course you leave out America. Which has been responsible for massive death and misery around the world. Most notably Africa and South East Asia. Alot of which was intentional.
> 
> Like Hitler's efforts to continue what the Christians wanted done to the Jews in Europe.
> 
> The Pope backed it..as did history.
Click to expand...

they died because of communism!!!....and you defend the most oppressive forms of government on earth!!!...and I thought my opinion of SWALLOW"S could not get any worse!!!.... SWALLOW'S IS AN  ENEMY OF AMERICA!!


----------



## Neotrotsky

So you can't prove me wrong 

Oh god, you are pulling out the old left excuse
for Stalin's murders- too funny

No you are right, Stalin was great guy 
The new Walter Duranty,  I see 

What about the Holodomor Famine
that happened in 32-33 
when did the war start?

Did you know Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union had
a treaty to invade Poland together?


----------



## Neotrotsky

Sallow said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> you just described communist!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this the Democrat Party Platform or the Communist Party Platform?
> 
> "URGENT: No to cuts that hurt working people!
> Tea Party Republicans are attempting to hold the country hostage by refusing to allow a routine adjustment in the nation's debt ceiling...
> 
> New Tax the rich flier
> Download the new Save the nation! Tax the rich! PDF in both Spanish and English
> 
> Become a DREAMer
> Sign on as a citizen co-sponsor to the DREAM Act."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Taxes are communist?
> 
> Straight up?
> 
> Yes or no.
Click to expand...


The questions does need to be clarified 

What kind of taxes?


----------



## Sallow

yidnar said:


> they died because of communism!!!....and you defend the most oppressive forms of government on earth!!!...and I thought my opinion of SWALLOW"S could not get any worse!!!.... SWALLOW'S IS AN  ENEMY OF AMERICA!!



Listen you whacked out fag boi.

No Sallow cum for you.

I ain't lettin you suck my dick asshole.

Why? Because I ain't no faggot.

Like you.


----------



## Sallow

Neotrotsky said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is this the Democrat Party Platform or the Communist Party Platform?
> 
> "URGENT: No to cuts that hurt working people!
> Tea Party Republicans are attempting to hold the country hostage by refusing to allow a routine adjustment in the nation's debt ceiling...
> 
> New Tax the rich flier
> Download the new Save the nation! Tax the rich! PDF in both Spanish and English
> 
> Become a DREAMer
> Sign on as a citizen co-sponsor to the DREAM Act."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taxes are communist?
> 
> Straight up?
> 
> Yes or no.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The questions does need to be clarified
> 
> What kind of taxes?
Click to expand...


No it doesn't.

Are Taxes commie or not?


----------



## NYcarbineer

Sweden is doing better than we are, if you want to talk about socialism working or not working.


----------



## Neotrotsky

Sallow said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Taxes are communist?
> 
> Straight up?
> 
> Yes or no.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The questions does need to be clarified
> 
> What kind of taxes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it doesn't.
> 
> Are Taxes commie or not?
Click to expand...


Sure it does
progressive regressive taxes, sales tax etc

if that is the case
then very regressive taxes would be ok


----------



## Sallow

Neotrotsky said:


> So you can't prove me wrong
> 
> Oh god, you are pulling out the old left excuse
> for Stalin's murders- too funny
> 
> No you are right, Stalin was great guy
> The new Walter Duranty,  I see
> 
> What about the Holodomor Famine
> that happened in 32-33
> when did the war start?
> 
> Did you know Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union had
> a treaty to invade Poland together?



Stalin wasn't a "great" guy. In fact he was a thug. The Communists were terrible at just about everything. In China they booted the "landlords" and put kids in charge of growing crops. It was the same with the Soviets. Additionally both regions are known for severe droughts and horrible weather. But then again..I suppose you attribute all of that to Communists too.

And yeah..the Nazis had a treaty with all those nations before attacking them..and were doing business with Captains of American Industry like Prescott Bush (Yeah..George W. Bush's Grandfather) who was busted for that one.


----------



## Neotrotsky

Sallow said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> North Korea isn't progressive at all. It's quite conservative. They don't allow voting. And government is passed down from family to family.
> 
> They don't even call themselves "progressive".
> 
> It's the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
> 
> North Korea
> 
> And thanks to America..South Korea doesn't spend much on it's military. So that leaves it money for many socialist programs..like Socialized Medicine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a full CPE - it depends on large gov't
> It is a creature of the Left
> thank goodness
> 
> No even in the video she thanks their leader
> for having a socialist state, right at the end
> 
> 
> They have voting- just like the Soviet Union
> Granted only one party is on the ticket
> Just think of it like Democrats and RINOs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Depend on large government? Bahahahahahahaha..
> 
> Government in North Korea provides shit for it's people. You are basically on your own. There is a small monied class and a large class with bupkis. You'd know this if you ever spend even the SLIGHTEST amount of time in the region. They are alot like Mexico. North Koreans are trying to sneak into every other Asian nation. One of the first things the Chinese did when they took over Hong Kong was to kick out the poor people. If you were Chinese..you had to move to more rural areas you could afford. If you were North Korean, you get sent back to North Korea. I was THERE when that was happening. The Chinese got rid of all the boat people in Aberdeen bay..and the North Koreans were protesting deportation.
> 
> Aside from that..you guys are literalists. And North Korea as a nation calls itself a Democratic Republic.
Click to expand...



Maybe they have not gone socialist enough?
Since they have taken out all capitalism
what could be the problem now?


What could their gov't do to make it better?

They control all the resources in the country
how should they use them to get the best results


----------



## Sallow

Neotrotsky said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> The questions does need to be clarified
> 
> What kind of taxes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it doesn't.
> 
> Are Taxes commie or not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure it does
> progressive regressive taxes, sales tax etc
> 
> if that is the case
> then very regressive taxes would be ok
Click to expand...


Avoiding the question I see.


----------



## Sallow

Neotrotsky said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a full CPE - it depends on large gov't
> It is a creature of the Left
> thank goodness
> 
> No even in the video she thanks their leader
> for having a socialist state, right at the end
> 
> 
> They have voting- just like the Soviet Union
> Granted only one party is on the ticket
> Just think of it like Democrats and RINOs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depend on large government? Bahahahahahahaha..
> 
> Government in North Korea provides shit for it's people. You are basically on your own. There is a small monied class and a large class with bupkis. You'd know this if you ever spend even the SLIGHTEST amount of time in the region. They are alot like Mexico. North Koreans are trying to sneak into every other Asian nation. One of the first things the Chinese did when they took over Hong Kong was to kick out the poor people. If you were Chinese..you had to move to more rural areas you could afford. If you were North Korean, you get sent back to North Korea. I was THERE when that was happening. The Chinese got rid of all the boat people in Aberdeen bay..and the North Koreans were protesting deportation.
> 
> Aside from that..you guys are literalists. And North Korea as a nation calls itself a Democratic Republic.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe they have not gone socialist enough?
> Since they have taken out all capitalism
> what could be the problem now?
> 
> 
> What could their gov't do to make it better?
> 
> They control all the resources in the country
> how should they use them to get the best results
Click to expand...


This might suprise you..but the North Koreans are starting to allow capitalism in small doses.


----------



## Neotrotsky

Not at all


----------



## Neotrotsky

Sallow said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depend on large government? Bahahahahahahaha..
> 
> Government in North Korea provides shit for it's people. You are basically on your own. There is a small monied class and a large class with bupkis. You'd know this if you ever spend even the SLIGHTEST amount of time in the region. They are alot like Mexico. North Koreans are trying to sneak into every other Asian nation. One of the first things the Chinese did when they took over Hong Kong was to kick out the poor people. If you were Chinese..you had to move to more rural areas you could afford. If you were North Korean, you get sent back to North Korea. I was THERE when that was happening. The Chinese got rid of all the boat people in Aberdeen bay..and the North Koreans were protesting deportation.
> 
> Aside from that..you guys are literalists. And North Korea as a nation calls itself a Democratic Republic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe they have not gone socialist enough?
> Since they have taken out all capitalism
> what could be the problem now?
> 
> 
> What could their gov't do to make it better?
> 
> They control all the resources in the country
> how should they use them to get the best results
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This might suprise you..but the North Koreans are starting to allow capitalism in small doses.
Click to expand...


No no no

Why would they do that?
The video clearly shows the success of socialism


----------



## peach174

Neotrotsky said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> The questions does need to be clarified
> 
> What kind of taxes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it doesn't.
> 
> Are Taxes commie or not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure it does
> progressive regressive taxes, sales tax etc
> 
> if that is the case
> then very regressive taxes would be ok
Click to expand...



You are confusing taxes with how a government is run.
All governments must have some form of income, in order to fund important issues like their military.
No taxes are not communistic.
How the government is run is different.
We should get rid of the 16th amendment in our constitution and have the states collect Taxes to send to the Feds like we used to have. Ever since the 16th amendment, it has caused corruption in our Federal government.


----------



## yidnar

Sallow said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Taxes are communist?
> 
> Straight up?
> 
> Yes or no.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The questions does need to be clarified
> 
> What kind of taxes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it doesn't.
> 
> Are Taxes commie or not?
Click to expand...

thats like asking if eating is healthy!!!eating is good for you...over eating will kill you!!!over taxing will kill the economy!!!.....SO SPIT THE 5 POUNDS OF MEAT OUT OF YOUR MOUTH!!!!AND DON'T SWALLOW....SWALLOW!!


----------



## yidnar

Sallow said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depend on large government? Bahahahahahahaha..
> 
> Government in North Korea provides shit for it's people. You are basically on your own. There is a small monied class and a large class with bupkis. You'd know this if you ever spend even the SLIGHTEST amount of time in the region. They are alot like Mexico. North Koreans are trying to sneak into every other Asian nation. One of the first things the Chinese did when they took over Hong Kong was to kick out the poor people. If you were Chinese..you had to move to more rural areas you could afford. If you were North Korean, you get sent back to North Korea. I was THERE when that was happening. The Chinese got rid of all the boat people in Aberdeen bay..and the North Koreans were protesting deportation.
> 
> Aside from that..you guys are literalists. And North Korea as a nation calls itself a Democratic Republic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe they have not gone socialist enough?
> Since they have taken out all capitalism
> what could be the problem now?
> 
> 
> What could their gov't do to make it better?
> 
> They control all the resources in the country
> how should they use them to get the best results
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This might suprise you..but the North Koreans are starting to allow capitalism in small doses.
Click to expand...

baaa haa haa now you are defending communism with capitalism!!!


----------



## Sallow

yidnar said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> The questions does need to be clarified
> 
> What kind of taxes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it doesn't.
> 
> Are Taxes commie or not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> thats like asking if eating is healthy!!!eating is good for you...over eating will kill you!!!over taxing will kill the economy!!!.....SO SPIT THE 5 POUNDS OF MEAT OUT OF YOUR MOUTH!!!!AND DON'T SWALLOW....SWALLOW!!
Click to expand...


Are you like a fag boi and a stalker?

I already said no to your offer to swallow my load.

That should be it.

Go gargle someone else's cum.

You homosexual you.


----------



## daveman

Sallow said:


> North Korea isn't progressive at all. It's quite conservative. They don't allow voting. And government is passed down from family to family.
> 
> They don't even call themselves "progressive".
> 
> It's the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
> 
> North Korea
> 
> And thanks to America..South Korea doesn't spend much on it's military. So that leaves it money for many socialist programs..like Socialized Medicine.


When I was spending time on LA Indymedia, about once a month a NoKo robot would post a "news" release from Best Korea, saying how wonderful everything was.

I, a conservative, asked the 'bot the best recipes for grass and shoes.

The lefties on IMC?  _Never a single word of criticism_ for the People's Republic.


----------



## Sallow

Neotrotsky said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe they have not gone socialist enough?
> Since they have taken out all capitalism
> what could be the problem now?
> 
> 
> What could their gov't do to make it better?
> 
> They control all the resources in the country
> how should they use them to get the best results
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This might suprise you..but the North Koreans are starting to allow capitalism in small doses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No no no
> 
> Why would they do that?
> The video clearly shows the success of socialism
Click to expand...


Why do you think?

Il Jong wants sonny boy to take over.

That's not going to happen is everyone is pissed.


----------



## Sallow

daveman said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> North Korea isn't progressive at all. It's quite conservative. They don't allow voting. And government is passed down from family to family.
> 
> They don't even call themselves "progressive".
> 
> It's the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
> 
> North Korea
> 
> And thanks to America..South Korea doesn't spend much on it's military. So that leaves it money for many socialist programs..like Socialized Medicine.
> 
> 
> 
> When I was spending time on LA Indymedia, about once a month a NoKo robot would post a "news" release from Best Korea, saying how wonderful everything was.
> 
> I, a conservative, asked the 'bot the best recipes for grass and shoes.
> 
> The lefties on IMC?  _Never a single word of criticism_ for the People's Republic.
Click to expand...


If you were sitting in the state department and the question was asked, How do we deal with North Korea..and advisors started spewing nonsense..what exactly would you do?

First you straighten things out.

Then you get the facts right.

Then you map out a plan to deal with them.

North Korea is a mess. What would be best for us in that region? That North and South unite. That the new united country poses no "threat" to China. That we keep them quiet before that happens.

You start from there.


----------



## yidnar

Sallow said:


> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it doesn't.
> 
> Are Taxes commie or not?
> 
> 
> 
> thats like asking if eating is healthy!!!eating is good for you...over eating will kill you!!!over taxing will kill the economy!!!.....SO SPIT THE 5 POUNDS OF MEAT OUT OF YOUR MOUTH!!!!AND DON'T SWALLOW....SWALLOW!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you like a fag boi and a stalker?
> 
> I already said no to your offer to swallow my load.
> 
> That should be it.
> 
> Go gargle someone else's cum.
> 
> You homosexual you.
Click to expand...

now Swallow's don't be mad!!


----------



## Neotrotsky

peach174 said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it doesn't.
> 
> Are Taxes commie or not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure it does
> progressive regressive taxes, sales tax etc
> 
> if that is the case
> then very regressive taxes would be ok
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are confusing taxes with how a government is run.
> All governments must have some form of income, in order to fund important issues like their military.
> No taxes are not communistic.
> How the government is run is different.
> We should get rid of the 16th amendment in our constitution and have the states collect Taxes to send to the Feds like we used to have. Ever since the 16th amendment, it has caused corruption in our Federal government.
Click to expand...


Interesting 

repeal of the 17th amendment is an interesting concept as well

Before it, Senators could be picked by any method a State choose to do
appointed, elected etc

Senators were almost like ambassadors to the Fed, people representing State concerns
and deferring to State issues

After the 17, the Senate is more focused on Federal Issues and the two houses
are nothing more than "twiddle dee and tweedle dum".

It can make a difference. If the Senate was still the same, the boondoggle, Papa ObamaCare, would have never passed


----------



## Sallow

yidnar said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> thats like asking if eating is healthy!!!eating is good for you...over eating will kill you!!!over taxing will kill the economy!!!.....SO SPIT THE 5 POUNDS OF MEAT OUT OF YOUR MOUTH!!!!AND DON'T SWALLOW....SWALLOW!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you like a fag boi and a stalker?
> 
> I already said no to your offer to swallow my load.
> 
> That should be it.
> 
> Go gargle someone else's cum.
> 
> You homosexual you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> now Swallow's don't be mad!!
Click to expand...


Mad at what?

A raging homosexual? Dude. Come back to the real world.

I don't get mad at faggots..

I laugh at them.


----------



## daveman

Sallow said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> North Korea isn't progressive at all. It's quite conservative. They don't allow voting. And government is passed down from family to family.
> 
> They don't even call themselves "progressive".
> 
> It's the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
> 
> North Korea
> 
> And thanks to America..South Korea doesn't spend much on it's military. So that leaves it money for many socialist programs..like Socialized Medicine.
> 
> 
> 
> When I was spending time on LA Indymedia, about once a month a NoKo robot would post a "news" release from Best Korea, saying how wonderful everything was.
> 
> I, a conservative, asked the 'bot the best recipes for grass and shoes.
> 
> The lefties on IMC?  _Never a single word of criticism_ for the People's Republic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you were sitting in the state department and the question was asked, How do we deal with North Korea..and advisors started spewing nonsense..what exactly would you do?
> 
> First you straighten things out.
> 
> Then you get the facts right.
> 
> Then you map out a plan to deal with them.
> 
> North Korea is a mess. What would be best for us in that region? That North and South unite. That the new united country poses no "threat" to China. That we keep them quiet before that happens.
> 
> You start from there.
Click to expand...


Odd.  That doesn't address my point at all.  

To reiterate:  Leftists do not criticize each other.  The leftists at LA-IMC recognize a kindred spirit in North Korea.  

Insisting NoKo is a conservative regime is ludicrous.


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Progressives will never criticize NoKo, it's their Mecca


----------



## Sallow

daveman said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I was spending time on LA Indymedia, about once a month a NoKo robot would post a "news" release from Best Korea, saying how wonderful everything was.
> 
> I, a conservative, asked the 'bot the best recipes for grass and shoes.
> 
> The lefties on IMC?  _Never a single word of criticism_ for the People's Republic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you were sitting in the state department and the question was asked, How do we deal with North Korea..and advisors started spewing nonsense..what exactly would you do?
> 
> First you straighten things out.
> 
> Then you get the facts right.
> 
> Then you map out a plan to deal with them.
> 
> North Korea is a mess. What would be best for us in that region? That North and South unite. That the new united country poses no "threat" to China. That we keep them quiet before that happens.
> 
> You start from there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Odd.  That doesn't address my point at all.
> 
> To reiterate:  Leftists do not criticize each other.  The leftists at LA-IMC recognize a kindred spirit in North Korea.
> 
> Insisting NoKo is a conservative regime is ludicrous.
Click to expand...


And why is that?

Aside from the adoption of "Communism", nothing North Korea has done is remotely leftist.

They don't provide food or shelter for most of the population..you have to work long hard hours, almost to the point of death, to get anywhere. And even then..many people maintain private gardens to eat. And there is a black market that people buy goods from because most government stores are bare.

Where does most of this wealth end up? In the hands of a small elite group. Many of them are the "Owners" of factories and corporations. They are friends of the family that have been appointed to run these places.

Sounds like a Monarchy to me.


----------



## Sallow

CrusaderFrank said:


> Progressives will never criticize NoKo, it's their Mecca



Still no answer on taxes.

Interesting.


----------



## peach174

peach174 said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it doesn't.
> 
> Are Taxes commie or not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure it does
> progressive regressive taxes, sales tax etc
> 
> if that is the case
> then very regressive taxes would be ok
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are confusing taxes with how a government is run.
> All governments must have some form of income, in order to fund important issues like their military.
> No taxes are not communistic.
> How the government is run is different.
> We should get rid of the 16th amendment in our constitution and have the states collect Taxes to send to the Feds like we used to have. Ever since the 16th amendment, it has caused corruption in our Federal government.
Click to expand...


You don't call this an answer Sallow?


----------



## daveman

Sallow said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you were sitting in the state department and the question was asked, How do we deal with North Korea..and advisors started spewing nonsense..what exactly would you do?
> 
> First you straighten things out.
> 
> Then you get the facts right.
> 
> Then you map out a plan to deal with them.
> 
> North Korea is a mess. What would be best for us in that region? That North and South unite. That the new united country poses no "threat" to China. That we keep them quiet before that happens.
> 
> You start from there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Odd.  That doesn't address my point at all.
> 
> To reiterate:  Leftists do not criticize each other.  The leftists at LA-IMC recognize a kindred spirit in North Korea.
> 
> Insisting NoKo is a conservative regime is ludicrous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And why is that?
> 
> Aside from the adoption of "Communism", nothing North Korea has done is remotely leftist.
> 
> They don't provide food or shelter for most of the population..you have to work long hard hours, almost to the point of death, to get anywhere. And even then..many people maintain private gardens to eat. And there is a black market that people buy goods from because most government stores are bare.
> 
> Where does most of this wealth end up? In the hands of a small elite group. Many of them are the "Owners" of factories and corporations. They are friends of the family that have been appointed to run these places.
> 
> Sounds like a Monarchy to me.
Click to expand...

And throughout history, leftist regimes always end up like that.


----------



## rdean

Neotrotsky said:


> If North Korea can make a Progressive Utopia, why can't we?
> 
> Comrades,
> 
> it does sadden me to see the socialist success of the People's Paradise of DPRK
> when compared to ours. How do we know this to be true, because the people of
> DPRK have told us so-
> 
> just watch the video to see the truth
> 
> Life in the People's Paradise of DPRK - YouTube
> 
> True compatriots in the Progressive cause
> 
> What do they owe to their success? They have gone the whole way into the progressive cause...
> 
> _ Everything in the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State_
> 
> 
> Where as we, have taken the failed path of legislative socialism. The process is too slow
> and it is failing us.
> The recent S&P downgrade marks extinction for 19th-20th century progressivism.
> 
> What tools do we have left?
> - interest rates are low as they can go to go any good
> - we can't tax anyone enough without crashing the economy
> - how much can we debt spend since we are broke
> - we can't not allow true reforms to entitlements which limit the state's role
> 
> Traditionally, the progressive movement following the advice of past Socialist Party leaders like Presidential candidate Eugene Debs,
> has tried to legislate our way to it and thankfully, with the help of Democrats and RINOs,
> we have moved the country in the direction of a socialist utopia, but it is too slow and it appears to be failing.
> 
> Now while the slow creeping attempts to legislate ourselves to a Progressive Utopia
> served its purpose to "slowly boil the frog in hot water" to where they, the American voter, won't jump out, I say it is no longer necessary.
> 
> We are ready NOW to take the "revolutionary" logical next step and go full speed into
> the arms of the state- A true and full socialist utopia just like North Korea.
> 
> *The time is now! Everything is in place.
> *
> There is a Record Number of American Receiving Food Stamp Benefits
> 
> Papa Obama and the Democrats have gotten an early endorsement from the CPUSA
> 
> 
> As Eugene V Debs said:
> 
> _The issue is Socialism versus Capitalism. I am for Socialism because I am for humanity. We have been cursed with the reign of gold long enough.
> Money constitutes no proper basis of civilization. *The time has come to regenerate society &#8212; we are on the eve of universal change.*_



Only lying turds think North Korea is progressive.  Are you a lying turd?


----------



## Neotrotsky

rdean said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> If North Korea can make a Progressive Utopia, why can't we?
> 
> Comrades,
> 
> it does sadden me to see the socialist success of the People's Paradise of DPRK
> when compared to ours. How do we know this to be true, because the people of
> DPRK have told us so-
> 
> just watch the video to see the truth
> 
> Life in the People's Paradise of DPRK - YouTube
> 
> True compatriots in the Progressive cause
> 
> What do they owe to their success? They have gone the whole way into the progressive cause...
> 
> _ Everything in the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State_
> 
> 
> Where as we, have taken the failed path of legislative socialism. The process is too slow
> and it is failing us.
> The recent S&P downgrade marks extinction for 19th-20th century progressivism.
> 
> What tools do we have left?
> - interest rates are low as they can go to go any good
> - we can't tax anyone enough without crashing the economy
> - how much can we debt spend since we are broke
> - we can't not allow true reforms to entitlements which limit the state's role
> 
> Traditionally, the progressive movement following the advice of past Socialist Party leaders like Presidential candidate Eugene Debs,
> has tried to legislate our way to it and thankfully, with the help of Democrats and RINOs,
> we have moved the country in the direction of a socialist utopia, but it is too slow and it appears to be failing.
> 
> Now while the slow creeping attempts to legislate ourselves to a Progressive Utopia
> served its purpose to "slowly boil the frog in hot water" to where they, the American voter, won't jump out, I say it is no longer necessary.
> 
> We are ready NOW to take the "revolutionary" logical next step and go full speed into
> the arms of the state- A true and full socialist utopia just like North Korea.
> 
> *The time is now! Everything is in place.
> *
> There is a Record Number of American Receiving Food Stamp Benefits
> 
> Papa Obama and the Democrats have gotten an early endorsement from the CPUSA
> 
> 
> As Eugene V Debs said:
> 
> _The issue is Socialism versus Capitalism. I am for Socialism because I am for humanity. We have been cursed with the reign of gold long enough.
> Money constitutes no proper basis of civilization. *The time has come to regenerate society &#8212; we are on the eve of universal change.*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only lying turds think North Korea is progressive.  Are you a lying turd?
Click to expand...


Only lying turds think North Korea is not socialist. Are you a lying turd?
and
Only lying turds try to cover up their socialism by calling it Progressivism. Are you a lying turd? 

rhetorical questions
no need to answer on your part


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Sallow said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Progressives will never criticize NoKo, it's their Mecca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still no answer on taxes.
> 
> Interesting.
Click to expand...


What's the question?

Taxes? Yes Progressives believe everyone else should pay them, up to 100% of their income


----------



## Neotrotsky

NYcarbineer said:


> Sweden is doing better than we are, if you want to talk about socialism working or not working.



Really?

you do need to update your left talking points

Did you know that most of Sweden's gains have come from free market
reforms and they actually were worse off when they were more socialist
of course you don't 

Did you know that due the liberalization of their markets
Today, the state's total tax take comes to 45% of GDP, DOWN from 56% ten years ago
of course you don't 

Sweden Is a Role Model&#8230;but for Free Market Reforms, not Socialism
_
Sweden&#8217;s socialism lasted only for a couple of decades, roughly during the 1970s and 1980s. And as it happens, these decades mark the only break in the modern Swedish success story. &#8230;The Swedish tax burden was lower than the European average throughout these successful 60 years, and lower even than in the U.S. Only in 1950 did Sweden&#8217;s tax burden rise to 20% of GDP, though that remained comparatively low. &#8230;The 1970s were a decade of radical government intervention in society and in markets, during which Sweden doubled its overall tax burden, socialized a slew of industries, re-regulated its markets, expanded its public systems, and shuttered its borders. *In 1970, Sweden had the world&#8217;s fourth-highest GDP per capita. By 1990, it had fallen 13 positions.* In those 20 years, real wages in Sweden increased by only one percentage point. &#8230;By the late 1980s, though, Sweden had started de-regulating its markets once again, decreased its marginal tax rates, and opted for a sound-money, low-inflation policy. In the early 1990s, the pace quickened, and most markets except for labor and housing were liberalized. _​
Their biggest gains have come from free market reforms
funny how that works


Did you know 
Sweden is actually slightly more free market than the United States on non-fiscal measures in the Economic Freedom of the World index.


----------



## Neotrotsky

CrusaderFrank said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Progressives will never criticize NoKo, it's their Mecca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still no answer on taxes.
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's the question?
> 
> Taxes? Yes Progressives believe everyone else should pay them, up to 100% of their income
Click to expand...


He said it does not matter
So we should have the most regressive taxes possible


----------



## Moonglow

> Many of the core principles of the Progressive Movement focused on the need for efficiency in all areas of society. Purification to eliminate waste and corruption was a powerful element.[3] According to historian William Leuchtenburg:
> 
>  The Progressives believed in the Hamiltonian concept of positive government, of a national government directing the destinies of the nation at home and abroad. They had little but contempt for the strict construction of the Constitution by conservative judges, who would restrict the power of the national government to act against social evils and to extend the blessings of democracy to less favored lands. The real enemy was particularism, state rights, limited government.[4]


Progressivism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Moonglow

> The politics of North Korea take place within a nominally democratic multi-party system within the framework of the official state philosophy, Juche, a concept created by the founder of the North Korean state, Kim Il-sung, and his son and successor as leader, Kim Jong-il. In practice, North Korea functions as a single-party state. *It is widely considered to be a de facto totalitarian dictatorship*.





Politics of North Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Moonglow

you will notice the the model of the political/social system in N. Korea is not a progressive paradise. another falicy of those that try to advertise hyperbole, and try to stick labels where they do not belong.


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Moonglow said:


> you will notice the the model of the political/social system in N. Korea is not a progressive paradise. another falicy of those that try to advertise hyperbole, and try to stick labels where they do not belong.



You're right, the only thing they don't have in NoKo is the NY Times


----------



## Neotrotsky

Moonglow said:


> Many of the core principles of the Progressive Movement focused on the need for efficiency in all areas of society. Purification to eliminate waste and corruption was a powerful element.[3] According to historian William Leuchtenburg:
> 
> &#8220; The Progressives believed in the Hamiltonian concept of positive government, of a national government directing the destinies of the nation at home and abroad. They had little but contempt for the strict construction of the Constitution by conservative judges, who would restrict the power of the national government to act against social evils and to extend the blessings of democracy to less favored lands. The real enemy was particularism, state rights, limited government.[4]
> 
> 
> 
> Progressivism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...



Too bad the the socialists and a collection of other left extremists have co-opted the term for themselves

"...that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."




Too funny
another American Leftist telling us that North Korea
is not socialist

-they call themselves socialists
-they study and praise socialism
-they hate capitalism

Perhaps the ugly truth of socialism drawn to its furthest conclusion  
it what the Left can not stand to see
---
I know we will get it right
this time


----------



## Unkotare

Sallow said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> And thanks to America..South Korea doesn't spend much on it's military.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you kidding? That's ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That sound ridiculous?
> 
> Well yeah..it is.
Click to expand...



It sounds ridiculous because it's not true.


----------



## Neotrotsky

Moonglow said:


> The politics of North Korea take place within a nominally democratic multi-party system within the framework of the official state philosophy, Juche, a concept created by the founder of the North Korean state, Kim Il-sung, and his son and successor as leader, Kim Jong-il. In practice, North Korea functions as a single-party state. *It is widely considered to be a de facto totalitarian dictatorship*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Politics of North Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


Agree
but acting under the economic system of a socialist state

the real issue is Statism
which depends on a large and intrusive
gov't


----------



## Neotrotsky

Moonglow said:


> you will notice the the model of the political/social system in N. Korea is not a progressive paradise. another falicy of those that try to advertise hyperbole, and try to stick labels where they do not belong.



They are not socialist?

What socialist market reforms should they introduce to make
a  Progressive Utopia?


----------



## Sallow

Unkotare said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you kidding? That's ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That sound ridiculous?
> 
> Well yeah..it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds ridiculous because it's not true.
Click to expand...


Oh really.

United States Forces Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
U.S. to Aid South Korea With Naval Defense Plan - NYTimes.com

Fucking reality escapes the right wing in this country.


----------



## Sallow

CrusaderFrank said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> you will notice the the model of the political/social system in N. Korea is not a progressive paradise. another falicy of those that try to advertise hyperbole, and try to stick labels where they do not belong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're right, the only thing they don't have in NoKo is the NY Times
Click to expand...


Still no answer on taxes.

Commie or not?


----------



## Sallow

Neotrotsky said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> you will notice the the model of the political/social system in N. Korea is not a progressive paradise. another falicy of those that try to advertise hyperbole, and try to stick labels where they do not belong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are not socialist?
> 
> What socialist market reforms should they introduce to make
> a  Progressive Utopia?
Click to expand...


And your answer on taxes is what?

It's it commie or not?


----------



## Moonglow

Neotrotsky said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many of the core principles of the Progressive Movement focused on the need for efficiency in all areas of society. Purification to eliminate waste and corruption was a powerful element.[3] According to historian William Leuchtenburg:
> 
> &#8220; The Progressives believed in the Hamiltonian concept of positive government, of a national government directing the destinies of the nation at home and abroad. They had little but contempt for the strict construction of the Constitution by conservative judges, who would restrict the power of the national government to act against social evils and to extend the blessings of democracy to less favored lands. The real enemy was particularism, state rights, limited government.[4]
> 
> 
> 
> Progressivism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad the the socialists and a collection of other left extremists have co-opted the term for themselves
> 
> "...that which we call a rose
> By any other name would smell as sweet."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too funny
> another American Leftist telling us that North Korea
> is not socialist
> 
> -they call themselves socialists
> -they study and praise socialism
> -they hate capitalism
> 
> Perhaps the ugly truth of socialism drawn to its furthest conclusion
> it what the Left can not stand to see
> 
> I know we will get right
> this time
Click to expand...







> Communism is the idea that society should not have classes - exploiters and exploited, oppressors and oppressed, and so on. "


Read more: What is the difference between socialism and communism





> " Socialism is the idea that the working class, the class that produces the profits, the wealth, the cars, houses, planes, steel, should take over and run things collectively, democratically, for the benefit of the majority (who also "just happen" to be workers too).


Read more: What is the difference between socialism and communism

show me the model of N. Koreas political form of government. It is clearly not purely communistic, and it is clearly not purely socialistic.


----------



## Sallow

peach174 said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure it does
> progressive regressive taxes, sales tax etc
> 
> if that is the case
> then very regressive taxes would be ok
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are confusing taxes with how a government is run.
> All governments must have some form of income, in order to fund important issues like their military.
> No taxes are not communistic.
> How the government is run is different.
> We should get rid of the 16th amendment in our constitution and have the states collect Taxes to send to the Feds like we used to have. Ever since the 16th amendment, it has caused corruption in our Federal government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't call this an answer Sallow?
Click to expand...


You aren't either poster I asked.


----------



## Sallow

daveman said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Odd.  That doesn't address my point at all.
> 
> To reiterate:  Leftists do not criticize each other.  The leftists at LA-IMC recognize a kindred spirit in North Korea.
> 
> Insisting NoKo is a conservative regime is ludicrous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And why is that?
> 
> Aside from the adoption of "Communism", nothing North Korea has done is remotely leftist.
> 
> They don't provide food or shelter for most of the population..you have to work long hard hours, almost to the point of death, to get anywhere. And even then..many people maintain private gardens to eat. And there is a black market that people buy goods from because most government stores are bare.
> 
> Where does most of this wealth end up? In the hands of a small elite group. Many of them are the "Owners" of factories and corporations. They are friends of the family that have been appointed to run these places.
> 
> Sounds like a Monarchy to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And throughout history, leftist regimes always end up like that.
Click to expand...


Yeah true.

So calling it a "Progressive Utopia" is a misnomer.

To the point of the ridiculous.

Eventually true Marxism eliminates government. Which at it's core is the reason why it would never ever work.


----------



## Neotrotsky

Plasmaball said:


> i see neo felt like trolling today..



We understand your concern

the truth can be quite unsettling for those with
left "rose colored" glasses on on


----------



## Sallow

Plasmaball said:


> i see neo felt like trolling today..



Well yeah..but it sometimes yields some interesting discussion.

And other fun stuff.


----------



## Neotrotsky

Sallow said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> And why is that?
> 
> Aside from the adoption of "Communism", nothing North Korea has done is remotely leftist.
> 
> They don't provide food or shelter for most of the population..you have to work long hard hours, almost to the point of death, to get anywhere. And even then..many people maintain private gardens to eat. And there is a black market that people buy goods from because most government stores are bare.
> 
> Where does most of this wealth end up? In the hands of a small elite group. Many of them are the "Owners" of factories and corporations. They are friends of the family that have been appointed to run these places.
> 
> Sounds like a Monarchy to me.
> 
> 
> 
> And throughout history, leftist regimes always end up like that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah true.
> 
> So calling it a "Progressive Utopia" is a misnomer.
> 
> To the point of the ridiculous.
> 
> Eventually true Marxism eliminates government. Which at it's core is the reason why it would never ever work.
Click to expand...


note
I answered your question
the most regressive taxes are not commie 



What socialist market reforms do they need to make it better?


----------



## bripat9643

Sallow said:


> North Korea isn't progressive at all. It's quite conservative. They don't allow voting. And government is passed down from family to family.
> 
> They don't even call themselves "progressive".
> 
> It's the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
> 
> North Korea
> 
> And thanks to America..South Korea doesn't spend much on it's military. So that leaves it money for many socialist programs..like Socialized Medicine.



the Nazis called themselves socialists, and all you progressives know that was a lie, so why should we be concerned about what they call themselves?  Everyone knows the goals of American progressives are exactly the sames ones claimed by the PDRK.


----------



## Moonglow

bripat9643 said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> North Korea isn't progressive at all. It's quite conservative. They don't allow voting. And government is passed down from family to family.
> 
> They don't even call themselves "progressive".
> 
> It's the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
> 
> North Korea
> 
> And thanks to America..South Korea doesn't spend much on it's military. So that leaves it money for many socialist programs..like Socialized Medicine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the Nazis called themselves socialists, and all you progressives know that was a lie, so why should we be concerned about what they call themselves?  Everyone knows the goals of American progressives are exactly the sames ones claimed by the PDRK.
Click to expand...


Again you fail to support your statement with facts.


----------



## NYcarbineer

Neotrotsky said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sweden is doing better than we are, if you want to talk about socialism working or not working.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?
> 
> you do need to update your left talking points
> 
> Did you know that most of Sweden's gains have come from free market
> reforms and they actually were worse off when they were more socialist
> of course you don't
> 
> Did you know that due the liberalization of their markets
> Today, the state's total tax take comes to 45% of GDP, DOWN from 56% ten years ago
> of course you don't
> 
> Sweden Is a Role Modelbut for Free Market Reforms, not Socialism
> _
> Swedens socialism lasted only for a couple of decades, roughly during the 1970s and 1980s. And as it happens, these decades mark the only break in the modern Swedish success story. The Swedish tax burden was lower than the European average throughout these successful 60 years, and lower even than in the U.S. Only in 1950 did Swedens tax burden rise to 20% of GDP, though that remained comparatively low. The 1970s were a decade of radical government intervention in society and in markets, during which Sweden doubled its overall tax burden, socialized a slew of industries, re-regulated its markets, expanded its public systems, and shuttered its borders. *In 1970, Sweden had the worlds fourth-highest GDP per capita. By 1990, it had fallen 13 positions.* In those 20 years, real wages in Sweden increased by only one percentage point. By the late 1980s, though, Sweden had started de-regulating its markets once again, decreased its marginal tax rates, and opted for a sound-money, low-inflation policy. In the early 1990s, the pace quickened, and most markets except for labor and housing were liberalized. _​
> Their biggest gains have come from free market reforms
> funny how that works
> 
> 
> Did you know
> Sweden is actually slightly more free market than the United States on non-fiscal measures in the Economic Freedom of the World index.
Click to expand...


Then you shouldn't object to us modeling the U.S. more towards Swedish socialism.


----------



## Sallow

Neotrotsky said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> And throughout history, leftist regimes always end up like that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah true.
> 
> So calling it a "Progressive Utopia" is a misnomer.
> 
> To the point of the ridiculous.
> 
> Eventually true Marxism eliminates government. Which at it's core is the reason why it would never ever work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> note
> I answered your question
> the most regressive taxes are not commie
> 
> 
> 
> What socialist market reforms do they need to make it better?
Click to expand...


Taxation..chief.

Is taxation commie?

Simple enough.


----------



## bripat9643

Moonglow said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> the Nazis called themselves socialists, and all you progressives know that was a lie, so why should we be concerned about what they call themselves?  Everyone knows the goals of American progressives are exactly the sames ones claimed by the PDRK.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again you fail to support your statement with facts.
Click to expand...



Read the platform of the American communist Party.


----------



## Neotrotsky

Moonglow said:


> " Socialism is the idea that the working class, the class that produces the profits, the wealth, the cars, houses, planes, steel, should take over and run things collectively, democratically, for the benefit of the majority (who also "just happen" to be workers too).
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: What is the difference between socialism and communism
> 
> show me the model of N. Koreas political form of government. It is clearly not purely communistic, and it is clearly not purely socialistic.
Click to expand...



Socialism, communism, fascism, crony capitalism are all forms of some level of CPE's 
and share little with a true free market system. 
North Korea depend on and thrive on a large and intrusive gov't or "big gov't", not small. 

 Indeed
 Peter Drucker
_"the complete collapse of the belief in the attainability of freedom and equality through Marxism has forced Russia to travel the same road
 toward a totalitarian society of un-freedom and inequality which Germany has been following. Not that communism and fascism are essentially the same.
 Fascism is the stage reached after communism has proved an illusion, and it has proved as much an illusion in Russia as in pre-Hitler Germany."_​


The issue is one of statism

Hayek defined Fascism :

_"It is simply collectivism freed from all traces of an individualist tradition which might hamper its realization"_​
which is one of the potential problems with CPEs and the onset of statism

Too often many call for ends with no appreciation
of the means to get there


----------



## Neotrotsky

Sallow said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah true.
> 
> So calling it a "Progressive Utopia" is a misnomer.
> 
> To the point of the ridiculous.
> 
> Eventually true Marxism eliminates government. Which at it's core is the reason why it would never ever work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> note
> I answered your question
> the most regressive taxes are not commie
> 
> 
> 
> What socialist market reforms do they need to make it better?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Taxation..chief.
> 
> Is taxation commie?
> 
> Simple enough.
Click to expand...


You said it did not matter

So I choose

If you want to build a system of totally regressive taxes
I have no issue with that nor do I think it would be "commie"

I answered your question
you just don't like the answer
-----

so again

What socialist market reforms does North Korea need to make it better?


----------



## Neotrotsky

NYcarbineer said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sweden is doing better than we are, if you want to talk about socialism working or not working.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?
> 
> you do need to update your left talking points
> 
> Did you know that most of Sweden's gains have come from free market
> reforms and they actually were worse off when they were more socialist
> of course you don't
> 
> Did you know that due the liberalization of their markets
> Today, the state's total tax take comes to 45% of GDP, DOWN from 56% ten years ago
> of course you don't
> 
> Sweden Is a Role Model&#8230;but for Free Market Reforms, not Socialism
> _
> Sweden&#8217;s socialism lasted only for a couple of decades, roughly during the 1970s and 1980s. And as it happens, these decades mark the only break in the modern Swedish success story. &#8230;The Swedish tax burden was lower than the European average throughout these successful 60 years, and lower even than in the U.S. Only in 1950 did Sweden&#8217;s tax burden rise to 20% of GDP, though that remained comparatively low. &#8230;The 1970s were a decade of radical government intervention in society and in markets, during which Sweden doubled its overall tax burden, socialized a slew of industries, re-regulated its markets, expanded its public systems, and shuttered its borders. *In 1970, Sweden had the world&#8217;s fourth-highest GDP per capita. By 1990, it had fallen 13 positions.* In those 20 years, real wages in Sweden increased by only one percentage point. &#8230;By the late 1980s, though, Sweden had started de-regulating its markets once again, decreased its marginal tax rates, and opted for a sound-money, low-inflation policy. In the early 1990s, the pace quickened, and most markets except for labor and housing were liberalized. _​
> Their biggest gains have come from free market reforms
> funny how that works
> 
> 
> Did you know
> Sweden is actually slightly more free market than the United States on non-fiscal measures in the Economic Freedom of the World index.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then you shouldn't object to us modeling the U.S. more towards Swedish socialism.
Click to expand...


towards socialism? since we are less "free" then them
we should be moving ourselves towards free market reforms
and away from socialism, like they are doing 

you have no problem with that ?


----------



## Unkotare

Sallow said:


> [
> 
> Conservatives are for status quo, homogeneous populations, fealty to governments like theocracies, aristocracies, dictatorships or monarchies. They are for tradition and like a strong hand ruling them.




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FshkO8HqQ10]Consuela says "No" for about 30 seconds - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Sallow said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> you will notice the the model of the political/social system in N. Korea is not a progressive paradise. another falicy of those that try to advertise hyperbole, and try to stick labels where they do not belong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're right, the only thing they don't have in NoKo is the NY Times
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Still no answer on taxes.
> 
> Commie or not?
Click to expand...


Progressive income tax is Communist/Progressive


----------



## Unkotare

Sallow said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> That sound ridiculous?
> 
> Well yeah..it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds ridiculous because it's not true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh really.
Click to expand...




Yes really. South Korea spends 12% of its annual budget on its military. That's more than "not much." The point in question was not  how much the US spends to support our military presence there (for our own interests, of course).


----------



## Neotrotsky

Plasmaball said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> 
> i see neo felt like trolling today..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We understand your concern
> 
> the truth can be quite unsettling for those with
> left "rose colored" glasses on on
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> no goats for you.
Click to expand...


as a true progressive
I am dedicated to Mother Earth
and a vegetarian


----------



## Neotrotsky

Plasmaball said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> 
> no goats for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> as a true progressive
> I am dedicated to Mother Earth
> and a vegetarian
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so what you trying to say? you only sleep with the goats?
Click to expand...


I assumed goats as food

sleeping?  never thought of that
must be the newest left thing

Well if we can have gay marriage
who is the gov't to say we can't have goat marriage?

But hey I won't judge you 
to each his own


----------



## editec

CrusaderFrank said:


> Obama and the Dems want to cut our power so we too will live it pitch darkness at night


 
Well there's clearly one good thing about North Korean version of totalitarianism --

It makes the night sky every so much more interesting to look at (while you and your familiy are slowly starving to death)


----------



## Patrick2

Leftwingers in the US aren't communists, but they are their ideological cousins.  Many of them have no faith in religion, in civil institutions, in democracy, in private charities, in people as individuals, not politically understood groups.  Their faith is in one thing - the brute power of the state.  They also share a certain arrogance with communist dictators - that they've got it all figured out, that they know what should be done and how society should be organized and what goals should be pursued, and they have no tolerance for what they view as distractive or obstructive things like the notion of freedom, of democracy, of the constitution, of the rule of written undistorted law.  All that crap is for the gun and religion clingers.


----------



## Neotrotsky

Patrick2 said:


> Leftwingers in the US aren't communists, but they are their ideological cousins.  Many of them have no faith in religion, in civil institutions, in democracy, in private charities, in people as individuals, not politically understood groups.  Their faith is in one thing - the brute power of the state.  They also share a certain arrogance with communist dictators - that they've got it all figured out, that they know what should be done and how society should be organized and what goals should be pursued, and they have no tolerance for what they view as distractive or obstructive things like the notion of freedom, of democracy, of the constitution, of the rule of written undistorted law.  All that crap is for the gun and religion clingers.




_Everything in the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State_

----------------

As our system crumbles, and as the entitlement state kills off our economy, the
S&P downgrade marks extinction for 19th-20th century progressivism. Hard choices
will be have to be made that the socialists are not willing or able to ...

*
 If we are to survive the looming catastrophe, we need to face the truth*
_
 The idea that a capitalist economy can support a socialist welfare state is collapsing before our eyes...

 We have arrived at the endgame of what was an untenable doctrine: to pay for the kind of entitlements that populations have been led to expect by their politicians, the wealth-creating sector has to be taxed to a degree that makes it almost impossible for it to create the wealth that is needed to pay for the entitlements that populations have been led to expect, etc, etc.

 The only way that state benefit programmes could be extended in the ways that are forecast for Europe&#8217;s ageing population would be by government seizing all the levers of the economy and producing as much (externally) worthless currency as was needed &#8211; in the manner of the old Soviet Union.

 That is the problem. So profound is its challenge to the received wisdom of postwar Western democratic life that it is unutterable in the EU circles in which the crucial decisions are being made &#8211; or rather, not being made. &#8230;

 We have been pretending &#8211; with ever more manic protestations &#8211; that this could go on for ever. Even when it became clear that European state pensions (and the US social security system) were gigantic Ponzi schemes in which the present beneficiaries were spending the money of the current generation of contributors, and that health provision was creating impossible demands on tax revenue, and that benefit dependency was becoming a substitute for wealth-creating employment, the lesson would not be learnt. We have been living on tick and wishful thinking._​


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Patrick2 said:


> Leftwingers in the US aren't communists, but they are their ideological cousins.  Many of them have no faith in religion, in civil institutions, in democracy, in private charities, in people as individuals, not politically understood groups.  Their faith is in one thing - the brute power of the state.  They also share a certain arrogance with communist dictators - that they've got it all figured out, that they know what should be done and how society should be organized and what goals should be pursued, and they have no tolerance for what they view as distractive or obstructive things like the notion of freedom, of democracy, of the constitution, of the rule of written undistorted law.  All that crap is for the gun and religion clingers.



Have you checked the Communist/Democrat Party Platform lately?

"URGENT: No to cuts that hurt working people!
*Tea Party Republicans are attempting to hold the country hostage by refusing to allow a routine adjustment in the nation's debt ceiling*...

New Tax the rich flier
Download the new Save the nation! Tax the rich! PDF in both Spanish and English

Become a DREAMer
Sign on as a citizen co-sponsor to the DREAM Act."


----------



## daveman

Sallow said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> And why is that?
> 
> Aside from the adoption of "Communism", nothing North Korea has done is remotely leftist.
> 
> They don't provide food or shelter for most of the population..you have to work long hard hours, almost to the point of death, to get anywhere. And even then..many people maintain private gardens to eat. And there is a black market that people buy goods from because most government stores are bare.
> 
> Where does most of this wealth end up? In the hands of a small elite group. Many of them are the "Owners" of factories and corporations. They are friends of the family that have been appointed to run these places.
> 
> Sounds like a Monarchy to me.
> 
> 
> 
> And throughout history, leftist regimes always end up like that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah true.
> 
> So calling it a "Progressive Utopia" is a misnomer.
> 
> To the point of the ridiculous.
> 
> Eventually true Marxism eliminates government. Which at it's core is the reason why it would never ever work.
Click to expand...

There never has been, nor will there ever be, a Progressive Utopia.

Why?

Because all leftist Utopian schemes are doomed to failure from the start.

Why?

Because they think they can control human thought and behavior by force of law.  

And that's impossible.  They simply don't understand human nature.  And it always winds up being totalitarian -- "for the good of the workers".


----------



## rdean

Neotrotsky said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> If North Korea can make a Progressive Utopia, why can't we?
> 
> Comrades,
> 
> it does sadden me to see the socialist success of the People's Paradise of DPRK
> when compared to ours. How do we know this to be true, because the people of
> DPRK have told us so-
> 
> just watch the video to see the truth
> 
> Life in the People's Paradise of DPRK - YouTube
> 
> True compatriots in the Progressive cause
> 
> What do they owe to their success? They have gone the whole way into the progressive cause...
> 
> _ Everything in the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State_
> 
> 
> Where as we, have taken the failed path of legislative socialism. The process is too slow
> and it is failing us.
> The recent S&P downgrade marks extinction for 19th-20th century progressivism.
> 
> What tools do we have left?
> - interest rates are low as they can go to go any good
> - we can't tax anyone enough without crashing the economy
> - how much can we debt spend since we are broke
> - we can't not allow true reforms to entitlements which limit the state's role
> 
> Traditionally, the progressive movement following the advice of past Socialist Party leaders like Presidential candidate Eugene Debs,
> has tried to legislate our way to it and thankfully, with the help of Democrats and RINOs,
> we have moved the country in the direction of a socialist utopia, but it is too slow and it appears to be failing.
> 
> Now while the slow creeping attempts to legislate ourselves to a Progressive Utopia
> served its purpose to "slowly boil the frog in hot water" to where they, the American voter, won't jump out, I say it is no longer necessary.
> 
> We are ready NOW to take the "revolutionary" logical next step and go full speed into
> the arms of the state- A true and full socialist utopia just like North Korea.
> 
> *The time is now! Everything is in place.
> *
> There is a Record Number of American Receiving Food Stamp Benefits
> 
> Papa Obama and the Democrats have gotten an early endorsement from the CPUSA
> 
> 
> As Eugene V Debs said:
> 
> _The issue is Socialism versus Capitalism. I am for Socialism because I am for humanity. We have been cursed with the reign of gold long enough.
> Money constitutes no proper basis of civilization. *The time has come to regenerate society  we are on the eve of universal change.*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only lying turds think North Korea is progressive.  Are you a lying turd?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only lying turds think North Korea is not socialist. Are you a lying turd?
> and
> Only lying turds try to cover up their socialism by calling it Progressivism. Are you a lying turd?
> 
> rhetorical questions
> no need to answer on your part
Click to expand...


Was Jesus a socialist?


----------



## Neotrotsky

Not sure
but Hitler was a community organizer


----------



## NYcarbineer

Neotrotsky said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really?
> 
> you do need to update your left talking points
> 
> Did you know that most of Sweden's gains have come from free market
> reforms and they actually were worse off when they were more socialist
> of course you don't
> 
> Did you know that due the liberalization of their markets
> Today, the state's total tax take comes to 45% of GDP, DOWN from 56% ten years ago
> of course you don't
> 
> Sweden Is a Role Modelbut for Free Market Reforms, not Socialism
> _
> Swedens socialism lasted only for a couple of decades, roughly during the 1970s and 1980s. And as it happens, these decades mark the only break in the modern Swedish success story. The Swedish tax burden was lower than the European average throughout these successful 60 years, and lower even than in the U.S. Only in 1950 did Swedens tax burden rise to 20% of GDP, though that remained comparatively low. The 1970s were a decade of radical government intervention in society and in markets, during which Sweden doubled its overall tax burden, socialized a slew of industries, re-regulated its markets, expanded its public systems, and shuttered its borders. *In 1970, Sweden had the worlds fourth-highest GDP per capita. By 1990, it had fallen 13 positions.* In those 20 years, real wages in Sweden increased by only one percentage point. By the late 1980s, though, Sweden had started de-regulating its markets once again, decreased its marginal tax rates, and opted for a sound-money, low-inflation policy. In the early 1990s, the pace quickened, and most markets except for labor and housing were liberalized. _​
> Their biggest gains have come from free market reforms
> funny how that works
> 
> 
> Did you know
> Sweden is actually slightly more free market than the United States on non-fiscal measures in the Economic Freedom of the World index.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you shouldn't object to us modeling the U.S. more towards Swedish socialism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> towards socialism? since we are less "free" then them
> we should be moving ourselves towards free market reforms
> and away from socialism, like they are doing
> 
> you have no problem with that ?
Click to expand...


No problem.  We can start by adopting their  healthcare system.


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## Neotrotsky

That would be moving in the wrong direction

I'm sure since they are correcting for socialism's failures
it will only be a matter of time


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