# One picture worth a thousand words.



## Man of Ethics (Jun 9, 2021)

One picture worth a nanoessay:


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## Floyd61 (Jun 9, 2021)

It's like these guns have a mind of their own


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 9, 2021)

Why would you put suicide on the list?
There are plenty of parking garages and other tall things to jump off of.
Or they can park the car in the garage and slam a bottle of whisky with the garage doors closed.


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## CrusaderFrank (Jun 9, 2021)




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## CrusaderFrank (Jun 9, 2021)

Here's another picture worth 100,000,000 murdered


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## Moonglow (Jun 9, 2021)

People gotta die somehow...


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## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> One picture worth a nanoessay:



What's your point?


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## CrusaderFrank (Jun 9, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Relative Ethics said:
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> > One picture worth a nanoessay:
> ...


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## rightwinger (Jun 9, 2021)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Why would you put suicide on the list?
> There are plenty of parking garages and other tall things to jump off of.
> Or they can park the car in the garage and slam a bottle of whisky with the garage doors closed.



With most suicide methods, you have time to change your mind
With a gun, you have a split second


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 9, 2021)

rightwinger said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
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> > Why would you put suicide on the list?
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    How long does it take to step off a five story parking garage?


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 9, 2021)

rightwinger said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
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> > Why would you put suicide on the list?
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Most suicide attempts without a gun fail.

Very few people have strength and willpower to stab themselves.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> rightwinger said:
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  Why the fuck would you try and commit suicide with a fucken knife when there's plenty of tall structures to jump off of?


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 9, 2021)

I am Jewish.  I consider it a sin to place a stumbling block before the blind.

Most Jews, Christians, and Muslims would agree that *enabling suicide* is a great sin.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 9, 2021)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Why the fuck would you try and commit suicide with a fucken knife when there's plenty of tall structures to jump off of?



Many people have innate fear of heights.  I feel terrified standing next to a window in a tall building.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 9, 2021)

rightwinger said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
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> > Why would you put suicide on the list?
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    If you use a gun you still have to get a gun,buy ammo and load the gun.
I'd say that gives them plenty of time to think about it.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Jun 9, 2021)

rightwinger said:


> With most suicide methods, you have time to change your mind
> With a gun, you have a split second


Like when you step off of a bridge and you have a few seconds before hitting the water to float back up to the ledge?


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 9, 2021)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> rightwinger said:
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> > With most suicide methods, you have time to change your mind
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Most people have innate fear of heights.  We had it for millennia.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
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> > Why the fuck would you try and commit suicide with a fucken knife when there's plenty of tall structures to jump off of?
> ...



    Than maybe you should consider parking your clapped out volvo in the garage and closing the doors.
  What a stupid mindset.... are you afraid of guns as well as high places?
I know you're new here but this topic has been beaten to death on USMB long before you showed up.
If someone really wants to kill themselves they'll find a way,gun or no gun.


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## miketx (Jun 9, 2021)




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## miketx (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
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But nobody is afraid of blowing their brains out. GD you're full of shit.


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## Moonglow (Jun 9, 2021)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> rightwinger said:
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It would take a lifetime for me to do it..


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## CrusaderFrank (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> I am Jewish.  I consider it a sin to place a stumbling block before the blind.
> 
> Most Jews, Christians, and Muslims would agree that *enabling suicide* is a great sin.



Enabling suicide?


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## Hugo Furst (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> rightwinger said:
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> > HereWeGoAgain said:
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Relative Ethics said:


> Very few people have strength and willpower to stab themselves.


Takes neither to slice a wrist.


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## The Irish Ram (Jun 9, 2021)

Well, the suicidal could stab themselves to death with a fork, but...

The stats in the OP leave out of the equation, how many gun owners do not use their guns for those purposes. Nor does it take into account the amount of times guns have prevented crime and murder.  It is incomplete. 
If 50 gun owners don't use their guns for any of those purposes and 2 do, why disarm the 50?  Let's instead, deal with the 2.

If someone wants to kill themselves or someone else, taking my gun away won't do one thing to stop them.  Not one thing.  It would however prevent me from protecting myself from the mobs we are allowing to take over our streets and neighborhoods.  Or the men who decided to break into my home.


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## Concerned American (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> I am Jewish.  I consider it a sin to place a stumbling block before the blind.
> 
> Most Jews, Christians, and Muslims would agree that *enabling suicide* is a great sin.


Better do away with the Golden Gate, Bay Bridge, Brooklyn Bridge, GW Bridge, etc.  While your at it better outlaw diesel fuel and fertilizer as well.  Don't forget cell phones as they can be used to trigger suicide devices.  I guess you prove that idiocy does not discriminate by ethnicity.


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## Moonglow (Jun 9, 2021)

For goodness sake people learn gun safety and stop accidently killing yourself.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 9, 2021)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> What a stupid mindset.... are you afraid of guns as well as high places?



I am not *suffering* from Autism -- I am just different.

Proud to be an Aspie!


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 9, 2021)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Enabling suicide?



Guns enable suicidal and homicidal people to succeed.


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## toobfreak (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> One picture worth a nanoessay:




Congrats on confirming what I always suspected:  that 88% of all deaths are NOT even remotely gun related.


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## Hugo Furst (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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> > Enabling suicide?
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So do tall buildings, sharp objects, and hundreds of other items.

Your rant is based on a delusion


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## toobfreak (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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Just as free speech enables idiots like you to give bad opinions on things no one cares to hear about.


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## CrusaderFrank (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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Progressive leaders are the biggest mass murderers of their unarmed citizens.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
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> > What a stupid mindset.... are you afraid of guns as well as high places?
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   Ya sure it's not schizophrenia?
That shit came out of left field.


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## 2aguy (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> One picture worth a nanoessay:




You forgot the rest.......

600 million guns in private hands......over 19.4 million Americans can carry guns legally in public for self defense.........



Gun deaths...the truth....



2019...



Gun murder...10,235



Gun accidents...486



Of the gun murder deaths....over 70-80% of the victims are not regular Americans....they are criminals...murdered by other criminals in primarily democrat party controlled cities....where the democrat party judges, prosecutors and politicians have released them over and over again no matter how many times they are arrested for felony, illegal gun possession and violent crimes with guns...that's on you and your political party...not normal gun owners.





*Gun suicides... 23,491...*



Broker Version 9.4 (Build 1366)



Expanded Homicide Data Table 8



*Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, robberies, beatings, knifings, murders......according to the Centers for Disease Control, and 1.5 million times according to the Department of Justice.*



Lives saved....based on research?  By law abiding gun owners using guns to stop criminals?



Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct





* that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—*



Money saved from people not being beaten, raped, murdered, robbed?.......





*So figuring that the average DGU saves one half of a person’s life—as “gun violence” predominantly affects younger demographics—that gives us $3.465 million per half life.*
*
Putting this all together, we find that the monetary benefit of guns (by way of DGUs) is roughly $1.02 trillion per year. That’s trillion. With a ‘T’.*
*
I was going to go on and calculate the costs of incarceration ($50K/year) saved by people killing 1527 criminals annually, and then look at the lifetime cost to society of an average criminal (something in excess of $1 million). But all of that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $1,000,000,000,000 ($1T) annual benefit of gun ownership.*
*
When compared to the (inflation adjusted from 2002) $127.5 billion ‘cost’ of gun violence calculated by by our Ludwig-Cook buddies, guns save a little more than eight times what they “cost.”

Which, I might add, is completely irrelevant since “the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right — subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility.”
*
*So even taking Motherboard’s own total and multiplying it by 100, the benefits to society of civilian gun ownership dwarf the associated costs.*


Annual Defensive Gun Use Savings Dwarf Study's "Gun Violence" Costs - The Truth About Guns


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## toobfreak (Jun 9, 2021)

Moonglow said:


> For goodness sake people learn gun safety and stop accidently killing yourself.




Teaching gun safety was started by the NRA way back around 1870.  Progressives hated and feared it and stopped it.

Learning gun safety used to be taught in schools to kids growing up so they would become responsible adults.  Progressives hated and feared it and stopped it.

Now we have a nation of helpless, fearful clods as a result who are fodder for criminals and worthless to our military and the Progressives blame the NRA for it.  





Now, any foreign country out there could eat our breakfast next to the average American in preparedness and self-defense!


I would have posted more good info on the 2A but several places I went to linking to some of the best ever discussions on gun rights on YouTube just now all came back as:

VIDEO NO LONGER AVAILABLE thanks to woke progressives trying to suppress free speech and censor Americans.


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## 2aguy (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> One picture worth a nanoessay:




Back in the 1990s we had a slew of research projects trying to determine how many times a year Americans used guns for self defense..... 2 of the 17 studies from the 1990s and other years?

Centers for Disease Control..... 1.1 million times a year....

Department of Justice.....1.5 million times a year...

based on numbers from these studies, the number of lives saved by Americans who use their legal guns was computed.....

Average 176,000

Multiply that number by the number of years in your post...

17 years X  176,000 = 2,992,000 million lives saved by law abiding Americans using their guns to stop brutal rapes, robberies, beatings, knifings, murders....

2,992,000

Can you tell which number is bigger...even if you went to a democrat party controlled school?


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## 2aguy (Jun 9, 2021)

rightwinger said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
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> > Why would you put suicide on the list?
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As actual experts in the field state....suicide is not a gun issue, it is a mental health issue....

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide

*There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world. *

 According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.:  Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000.  By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.  


Suicide is a mental health issue.  If guns are not available other means are used.

 Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the _Washington Post_ (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%). 


Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the _Post _article.  The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited.  Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows:  Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).
Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)
Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics.  According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the _Post_’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent.  Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S. 
========

Suicide rates: An overview

Methods of suicide vary by sex and age​Over the past ten years, the most common method of suicide in Canada has been hanging (44%), which includes strangulation and suffocation; followed by poisoning (25%) and firearm use (16%).
Males were most likely to commit suicide by hanging (46%) while females most often died by poisoning (42%) (Chart 2). Males (20%) were far more likely to use firearms than females (3%).


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## 2aguy (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


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No...actually, they don't....just ask the Japanese.....they only allow criminals and select police have guns and their suicide rate is higher than ours....jumping in front of a bullet Train or off of a tall building has zero chance of failing.....


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## Mikeoxenormous (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> One picture worth a nanoessay:


And just think China in just 1 year killed well over that with the kung Flu.....


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## 2aguy (Jun 9, 2021)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Relative Ethics said:
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Trains.......that is another way......


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## 2aguy (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> I am Jewish.  I consider it a sin to place a stumbling block before the blind.
> 
> Most Jews, Christians, and Muslims would agree that *enabling suicide* is a great sin.




Then don't help......


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## 2aguy (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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As do trains, bridges, tall buildings, car exhaust, razors, ropes............

hanging the most popular way to commit suicide in several countries...


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## Leo123 (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> One picture worth a nanoessay:


Where did this come from?  Got a link?


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## rightwinger (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> rightwinger said:
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Yet, guns are the leading means of suicide 
By far


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## rightwinger (Jun 9, 2021)

2aguy said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
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Refusing to get a COVID shot is another way


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 9, 2021)

rightwinger said:


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  So you're saying you have a 1% chance of missing your head from point blank range?
Why doesn't that surprise me......


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## Leo123 (Jun 9, 2021)

rightwinger said:


> Yet, guns are the leading means of suicide
> By far


Guns don't make people commit suicide.  They are inanimate objects.


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## Leo123 (Jun 9, 2021)

rightwinger said:


> Refusing to get a COVID shot is another way





rightwinger said:


> Refusing to get a COVID shot is another way


Apparently facts are not your 'strong suit,' but then you ARE a troll.


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## Batcat (Jun 9, 2021)

Of course the fact that people defend themselves from street thugs and home invaders with firearms is totally ignored.

President Obama decided it would be a great idea to research how many times firearms are used for self defense so he commissioned a study on the subject by an executive order.

If you didn’t hear of this study it is because it didn’t support the views of liberals who want to ban and possibly confiscate civilian owned firearms.






						CDC Study: Use of Firearms for Self-Defense is ‘Important Crime Deterrent’
					

President Obama signs executive order for CDC gun violence study. (AP photo)(CNSNews.com) – “Self-defense can be an important crime deterrent,”says a new report by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC).




					www.cnsnews.com


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## Colin norris (Jun 9, 2021)

CrusaderFrank said:


>



I'll dispute that because I have never read where he said that. Unless you can provide the evidence I'll take it as a swipe at those wanting gun control. Or a lie.


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## CrusaderFrank (Jun 9, 2021)

Colin norris said:


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Progressive mass murderers ALWAYS start off disarming their citizens: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Fidel, Pol Pot


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 9, 2021)

Colin norris said:


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  Just look at Venezuela.
They confiscated all weapons and 6 years later they were killing citizens in the street.


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## Dusty (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> One picture worth a nanoessay:


Guns do not cause homicide, morons do that
Guns do not cause suicide, illness does that

Guns do enable you to express your opinion, so be thankful for guns


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 9, 2021)

toobfreak said:


> Just as free speech enables idiots like you to give bad opinions on things no one cares to hear about.



But speech does not cause big harm.

Guns are like Fentanyl and Opium -- they enable harm.


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## Leo123 (Jun 9, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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To be fair, I have not seen that quote attributed to Hitler either.   Hitler did, however, disarm the German Jewish population starting in 1933.  In 1936 the Gestapo prohibited the granting of firearms licenses to Jews as well.   I think some pro-gun folks see gun prohibition as analogous to that admittedly now extreme example.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 9, 2021)

2aguy said:


> No...actually, they don't....just ask the Japanese.....they only allow criminals and select police have guns and their suicide rate is higher than ours....jumping in front of a bullet Train or off of a tall building has zero chance of failing.....



Sadly they do not view Suicide as a sin.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 9, 2021)

Dusty said:


> Relative Ethics said:
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The same can be said of hard narcotics.


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## Leo123 (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> But speech does not cause big harm.
> 
> Guns are like Fentanyl and Opium -- they enable harm.


Knives, baseball bats, clubs, cars, even fists have all been used for harm as well.  Shall we ban those too?  A nail gun can kill as well, shall we ban them from jobsites?  BTW I asked you for a link to your OP, haven't seen it yet.  I would be interested to know where it came from.


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## Dusty (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Dusty said:
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And how much more narcotics would there be if there were no guns?


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## Leo123 (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> The same can be said of hard narcotics.


Narcotics can be helpful if used properly.  So can guns.  It is not the substance or inanimate object is is the misuse that causes harm.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> toobfreak said:
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> > Just as free speech enables idiots like you to give bad opinions on things no one cares to hear about.
> ...



  So do cars,knives and explosives.


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## Colin norris (Jun 9, 2021)

Leo123 said:


> Colin norris said:
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I haven't seen the proof he disarmed any one. Why specifically the Jews because they were not a threat to anyone. There were German people who hated him. Where they disarmed? 

My point is the propaganda crap that get posted and taken as fact should not be posted.  That's a classic example.


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## toobfreak (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> toobfreak said:
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> > Just as free speech enables idiots like you to give bad opinions on things no one cares to hear about.
> ...


So then you are saying that nothing Trump could have said at the Eclipse was harmful.  And when Hitler ordered the attacks on Europe, just speech, no big deal.



Relative Ethics said:


> Guns are like Fentanyl and Opium -- they enable harm.


But fentanyl and opium do a great deal of good as do guns.  Without painkillers, there would be vastly more suffering in this world and guns in the right hands stop, prevent and deter countless millions of crimes.


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## Leo123 (Jun 9, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> I haven't seen the proof he disarmed any one. Why specifically the Jews because they were not a threat to anyone. There were German people who hated him. Where they disarmed?
> 
> My point is the propaganda crap that get posted and taken as fact should not be posted. That's a classic example.


It's documented history.  

"Directly after the Kristallnacht, the possession of any weapons by Jews was prohibited through the _Verordnung gegen den Waffenbesitz der Juden_, enacted on 11 November 1938 (RGBl. I, 1573)."

"The disarmament of the German Jews started in 1933, initially limited to local areas. A major target was Berlin, where large-scale raids in search for weaponry took place. Starting in 1936, the Gestapo prohibited German police officers from giving firearms licenses to Jews. In November 1938, the Verordnung gegen den Waffenbesitz der Juden prohibited the possession of firearms and bladed weapons by Jews." 





__





						Disarmament of the German Jews - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Propaganda goes hand in had with politics and this is a political forum.  The left has published lots of political propaganda and stated it as fact as well.   I am still waiting for the OP to provide some kind of factual reference for the OP....


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## rightwinger (Jun 9, 2021)

Batcat said:


> Of course the fact that people defend themselves from street thugs and home invaders with firearms is totally ignored.


or the fact that guns are used to kill spouses, small children, movie theaters and schools


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## 2aguy (Jun 9, 2021)

rightwinger said:


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So....hanging is the number one way in Europe...trains and tall buildings in Japan.....


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## 2aguy (Jun 9, 2021)

o


rightwinger said:


> Batcat said:
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> > Of course the fact that people defend themselves from street thugs and home invaders with firearms is totally ignored.
> ...



Or the fact that guns are used, on average, 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, robberies, beatings, knifings, and murders.......to the tune of 170,000 lives saved a year......

Spouses, and small children can be murdered with knives, drowning, strangling, beatings, fire, and clubs..........meanwhile, guns can stop husbands and wifes from murdering spouses and small children...


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## Leo123 (Jun 9, 2021)

rightwinger said:


> or the fact that guns are used to kill spouses, small children, movie theaters and schools


Fuck off troll.  Knives, hands, clubs and bats have all been used to kill families as well.   Shall we ban/control/limit them too?


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## Leo123 (Jun 9, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Or the fact that guns are used, on average, 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, robberies, beatings, knifings, and murders.......to the tune of 170,000 lives saved a year......
> 
> Spouses, and small children can be murdered with knives, drowning, strangling, beatings, fire, and clubs..........meanwhile, guns can stop husbands and wifes from murdering spouses and small children...


Thanks, these gun-grabbers spew nothing but propaganda in order to support their Marxist agenda.  I had one idiot in this thread try tell me that Hitler never took guns from German Jews because they were not a threat to him.  I had to give him a history lesson with a link.  These fuckers are either Marxist operatives or ignorant Marxist tools.


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## Leo123 (Jun 9, 2021)

Still no link from the OP.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 9, 2021)

An interesting source.  Here. 

Justifiable Homicide is 30 times rarer then murder and 60 times rarer then suicide.


In movies a superhero can kill tens of villains.  In reality, guns are rarely used defensively.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 9, 2021)

Leo123 said:


> Still no link from the OP.











						US Gun Deaths by Year - Gun Control - ProCon.org
					

Suicides, Homicides, Unintentional Deaths, Legal Intervention Deaths, Deaths from Undetermined Consequences   I. All Firearm Deaths II. Firearm Suicides III. Firearm Homicides IV. Unintentional Firearm Deaths V. Legal Intervention Firearm Deaths VI. Firearm Deaths of Undetermined Intent...




					gun-control.procon.org


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## skye (Jun 9, 2021)

One picture worth a thousand words.


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## Harry Dresden (Jun 9, 2021)

rightwinger said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
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you dont have much time jumping off a building either....


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## skye (Jun 9, 2021)

miketx said:


> Relative Ethics said:
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> > Dont Taz Me Bro said:
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Exactly.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 9, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> Leo123 said:
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  Do you actually believe Hitler did what he did because the Jews were no threat to him?
Holy Shit do you you have a lot to learn.
    Get back with us when you get out of Jr High.....


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## Lastamender (Jun 9, 2021)

rightwinger said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
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> > Why would you put suicide on the list?
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I see, when you jump of the chair with the noose around your neck you can change your mind? Of course, you could give it a try and let us know if it works. It will definitely help your credibility


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## whitehall (Jun 9, 2021)

Firearm related deaths are only #12 in the cause of death in the U.S? With all the hysteria on the left I would have thought it was much higher. I guess they don't even list abortion as a cause of death in the federal statistics. If you take suicides and legitimate use of firearms out of the equation the stats are even lower. The crazy thing is that (mostly) lefties want to deprive Americans of their legitimate 2nd Amendment rights while they push to legalize drugs and the accelerating death toll resulting from drug abuse. They don't want Americans to be able to smoke a cigarette in public but the freaking hypocrites want to legalize sales of marijuana to our kids.


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## Leo123 (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Leo123 said:
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> > Still no link from the OP.
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Thanks for the link but, OK so what's the point?  That people use guns to kill and commit suicide?  That doesn't make guns evil or bad.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 9, 2021)

Leo123 said:


> Relative Ethics said:
> 
> 
> > Leo123 said:
> ...



Instead of making guns illegal, we should just make suicide and murder illegal.


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## Leo123 (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> An interesting source. Here.
> 
> Justifiable Homicide is 30 times rarer then murder and 60 times rarer then suicide.
> 
> ...


Again, what's your point?  Is it that criminals use guns to commit homicides?  OK...so?  Criminals do not obey gun laws...did you know that?  Did you also know that criminals typically won't attack a person if they even suspect that person is armed? 

Most law abiding gun owners never commit suicide or kill anyone with a gun.  What is your point?  To control guns?  You can't that horse left the barn hundreds of years ago and there is no putting it back.  Would you have championed arrow control before guns were invented too?   After all the bow and arrow killed untold millions.  

If your point is to limit gun ownership or somehow limit arms manufacture you are missing the target completely.


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## miketx (Jun 9, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Leo123 said:
> 
> 
> > Relative Ethics said:
> ...


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## miketx (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> An interesting source.  Here.
> 
> Justifiable Homicide is 30 times rarer then murder and 60 times rarer then suicide.
> 
> ...


You're a liar.


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jun 9, 2021)

rightwinger said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > Why would you put suicide on the list?
> ...


So because some people want to off themselves before they have time to chicken out, you want to shit on my rights?

Go fuck yourself.


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> toobfreak said:
> 
> 
> > Just as free speech enables idiots like you to give bad opinions on things no one cares to hear about.
> ...


So?  Of course they do as they are designed.  That's why we want them.   So we can blow your fucking heads off if you try to take our rights.


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## gtopa1 (Jun 9, 2021)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > HereWeGoAgain said:
> ...


You can always change your mind on the way down.....................................

Greg


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## Leo123 (Jun 9, 2021)

I wonder if the OP has realized yet what a joke the OP is.


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## Colin norris (Jun 9, 2021)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Colin norris said:
> 
> 
> > Leo123 said:
> ...



They were no threat other than they controlled most of the finances.  A dictatorship cannot operate without money.  They never at any time threatened violence with guns towards Hitler.  They had nearly no weapons to begin with. 
The op was a poor justification for weapons and using the usual Republican  threat of tyrants as the excuse. 
Now you have professed to establishing my intellectual capacity from a position of pure ignorance. Its not as if you, as an ignorant gun toting redneck Republican, is an intellectual mountain and a noted pillar of the community. Your not.  

So don't try to be smart boy.  You're not in the game.


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## Leo123 (Jun 9, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> They were no threat other than they controlled most of the finances. A dictatorship cannot operate without money. They never at any time threatened violence with guns towards Hitler. They had nearly no weapons to begin with.
> The op was a poor justification for weapons and using the usual Republican threat of tyrants as the excuse.
> Now you have professed to establishing my intellectual capacity from a position of pure ignorance. Its not as if you, as an ignorant gun toting redneck Republican, is an intellectual mountain and a noted pillar of the community. Your not.
> 
> So don't try to be smart boy. You're not in the game.


You said you saw no proof that Hitler disarmed anyone.  I gave you a historical link that showed he disarmed German Jews.  That came after his henchmen (The SA)  as well as some German citizens broke the storefront glass of Jewish owned stores, buildings and Synagogues in the Jewish areas.  (Kristallnact)  The OP in this thread seemed to be trying to prove the opposite of what you say as well.


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## Colin norris (Jun 9, 2021)

Leo123 said:


> Colin norris said:
> 
> 
> > They were no threat other than they controlled most of the finances. A dictatorship cannot operate without money. They never at any time threatened violence with guns towards Hitler. They had nearly no weapons to begin with.
> ...



I said they were no threat to him.  They had never used arms against anyone. Just like you guys don't have the guts. 
Hitler was a convincing orator and persuaded people to cause all types of violence against Jews who previously lived among them 
Trump has done the same by setting whites against blacks but democracy saved the day. 

I don't care what some hate filled Republican wants me to believe.  Hitler never said it.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 9, 2021)

whitehall said:


> Firearm related deaths are only #12 in the cause of death in the U.S? With all the hysteria on the left I would have thought it was much higher.



These are violent deaths of mostly healthy people.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 9, 2021)

Leo123 said:


> Thanks for the link but, OK so what's the point?  That people use guns to kill and commit suicide?  That doesn't make guns evil or bad.



Just like Fentanyl and Opium, guns enable enormous harm.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 9, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Instead of making guns illegal, we should just make suicide and murder illegal.



Sadly, Atheism is popular, thus people forget that Suicide is a sin.  As  a Jew I believe that they will suffer for some time, and then move to eternal bliss.  Christians view punishment as eternal.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Instead of making guns illegal, we should just make suicide and murder illegal.
> ...



Atheists don't obey the law? Maybe we should outlaw atheism?


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## Leo123 (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Just like Fentanyl and Opium, guns enable enormous harm.


Again, guns are inanimate objects they have no capacity to enable anyone.    The overwhelming majority of gun owners do not commit suicide or shoot anyone with their guns.  Fentanyl and Opium are narcotics and the vast majority of people do not take or abuse them.   Concentrating on a minority of people who die from these things and somehow conflating that to an overwhelming problem in a country of 300+ million,  is missing the mark by a wide margin, IMO.


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## Leo123 (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Sadly, Atheism is popular, thus people forget that Suicide is a sin. As a Jew I believe that they will suffer for some time, and then move to eternal bliss. Christians view punishment as eternal.


Unfortunately, Judeo-Christian morals and values are actively discounted today in favor of relative morality.  In some of the most violent inner-city areas, morals and values are dictated by local street gangs who are armed with guns and sell illegal drugs for profit.  The objects and substances they use and abuse are transitory.   If not guns and fentanyl they'd be using other substances and weapons.  Disarming citizens and 're-imagining' or 'de-funding' law enforcement is not going to solve anything.  

Bottom line, we are talking about the 'tip of the iceberg' here.  These problems go much deeper and are exacerbated by those who wish to change America into a Marxist State.  The first thing Marxists always do is tear away at the moral foundation of a society.  Read "Rules For Radicals" for insight.  The guy that wrote that was one of Obama's mentors.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 9, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Relative Ethics said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



They obey most laws like most people.  They are not aware of Laws against Suicide.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 9, 2021)

Leo123 said:


> Relative Ethics said:
> 
> 
> > Just like Fentanyl and Opium, guns enable enormous harm.
> ...



Guns are inanimate, but they are as dangerous as strong narcotics.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 9, 2021)

Leo123 said:


> Unfortunately, Judeo-Christian morals and values are actively discounted today in favor of relative morality.



Sad but true.  Many Jewish Communists wanted to bring Freedom and Equality for all people.  Their ideas were based largely on Old Testament, even though many of them were Atheist.

Sadly, Communism became Totalitarian in1930s.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Relative Ethics said:
> ...



Why should others rights be diminished because some don't know the laws?

You're not making any sense.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 10, 2021)

toobfreak said:


> *But fentanyl and opium do a great deal of good as do guns.*  Without painkillers, there would be vastly more suffering in this world and guns in the right hands stop, prevent and deter countless millions of crimes.



Agree 100%.  Only doctors can handle painkillers.  Likewise civilians should not handle guns.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 10, 2021)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> So because *some people* want to off themselves before they have time to chicken out, you want to shit on my rights?



Over 20,000 people per year commit gun suicide in USA.  Mostly these people have mental disabilities.  Their lives also have paramount value.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 10, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Relative Ethics said:
> 
> 
> > They obey most laws like most people.  They are not aware of Laws against Suicide.
> ...



Perhaps the rise of Atheism is the Society's fault.  Modern people can hardly be trusted with guns.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 10, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Modern people can hardly be trusted with guns.



You can't make them illegal, you've already seen people don't obey laws against suicide.


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jun 10, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Instead of making guns illegal, we should just make suicide and murder illegal.
> ...


As a Norse Pagan, I believe that I must kill my enemies or die in battle with a machine gun in my hands so that I can feast, fight, and fuck forever in Valhalla.


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jun 10, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Relative Ethics said:
> ...


So, why do we trust government with guns?

We only need them because our would-be oppressors have them.


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jun 10, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> toobfreak said:
> 
> 
> > *But fentanyl and opium do a great deal of good as do guns.*  Without painkillers, there would be vastly more suffering in this world and guns in the right hands stop, prevent and deter countless millions of crimes.
> ...


Then, take the guns away from government.  Otherwise, this civilian will handle the fuck out of guns.


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## Leo123 (Jun 10, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Agree 100%. Only doctors can handle painkillers. Likewise civilians should not handle guns.


Illegal narcotics kill most because their strength, quality and ingredients are all unknown.   Legalizing some would preclude many deaths.   Free civilians should always own guns.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 10, 2021)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> So, why do we trust government with guns?



Only a few doctors are allowed to handle strong narcotics.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 10, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:
> 
> 
> > So, why do we trust government with guns?
> ...



How many?


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 10, 2021)

Leo123 said:


> Illegal narcotics kill most because their strength, quality and ingredients are all unknown.   Legalizing some would preclude many deaths.   Free civilians should always own guns.



Legalizing fentanyl and opioids would be a mistake.  Legalizing guns was a mistake.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 10, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Legalizing guns was a mistake.



When were they illegal? Link?


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 10, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Relative Ethics said:
> 
> 
> > Legalizing guns was a mistake.
> ...



I guess XVIIIth century people mostly handled them responsibly.  Not modern people.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 10, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> I guess XVIIIth century



You guess? You don't have any proof?

Why are you making up these ridiculous claims?


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 10, 2021)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Relative Ethics said:
> 
> 
> > I guess XVIIIth century
> ...



Perhaps people in the past were more religious and responsible.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 10, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Relative Ethics said:
> ...



Perhaps they didn't lie....like you. Liar.


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## miketx (Jun 10, 2021)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > HereWeGoAgain said:
> ...


Don't forget the background check.


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## Leo123 (Jun 10, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Leo123 said:
> 
> 
> > Illegal narcotics kill most because their strength, quality and ingredients are all unknown.   Legalizing some would preclude many deaths.   Free civilians should always own guns.
> ...


If opioids were legal and regulated as to strength and quality, people would know what they are taking and if opioids were legal there would be no need for them to take fentanyl.  Guns are a right and have always been legal.  Making them illegal would be a mistake.


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## Leo123 (Jun 10, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Only a few doctors are allowed to handle strong narcotics.


Why am I not surprised you want central control of all substances?   Typical Marxist dogma.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 10, 2021)

Leo123 said:


> Why am I not surprised you want central control of all substances?   Typical Marxist dogma.



I am not a Mainstream Liberal.  I believe that all *Humans have Innate Value*.  Society must help all people and not enable anyone to inflict self-harm.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 10, 2021)

miketx said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



   I can see it now....sir just how long were you a resident at Bellevue?


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## Leo123 (Jun 11, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> I am not a Mainstream Liberal. I believe that all *Humans have Innate Value*. Society must help all people and not enable anyone to inflict self-harm.


No I don't believe you are a Liberal at all, in fact, it seems to me you are more of a Marxist.   You champion the taking of firearms and the sequestering of certain substances which maintains ignorance of their real effects under the guise of 'help.'


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## TroglocratsRdumb (Jun 11, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> One picture worth a nanoessay:


Democrats should not be allowed to own guns.


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## Leo123 (Jun 11, 2021)

TroglocratsRdumb said:


> Democrats should not be allowed to own guns.


The problem is that Democrats are scared of guns so they want to take them away from everybody else.   Their party keeps them like mushrooms, kept in the dark and fed shit.


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## basquebromance (Jun 11, 2021)




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## Man of Ethics (Jun 11, 2021)

Leo123 said:


> You champion the taking of firearms and the sequestering of certain substances which maintains ignorance of their real effects under the guise of 'help.'



Sadly, some "freedoms" are extremely harmful.

Many people with mental disability and depression use guns and drugs to inflict self-harm.


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## Leo123 (Jun 11, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Sadly, some "freedoms" are extremely harmful.
> 
> Many people with mental disability and depression use guns and drugs to inflict self-harm.


Really?  Which freedoms?  The ones YOU decide are 'harmful?'  That 'many people' harm themselves was and will always be true.   Why don't you personally help them instead of applying your Marxist political propaganda to society in general.  IOW, keep your fat mouth shut and go personally help those who need it.


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## Leo123 (Jun 11, 2021)

basquebromance said:


>


Racist post ^^^^^^^


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## basquebromance (Jun 11, 2021)

don't shoot the messenger!


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## Leo123 (Jun 11, 2021)

basquebromance said:


> don't shoot the messenger!


The 'message is racist.'  Why deliver a racist message?  What's your point?


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