# Over charging the parents of the Michigan shooter to attack normal gun owners.....



## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

The democrats want to punish normal gun owners.........and they will exploit any tragedy to do it...

Styx talks cars, knives and the problem with going after the parents......


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## Otis Mayfield (Dec 4, 2021)

Should've secured their gun.


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## Rye Catcher (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> The democrats want to punish normal gun owners.........and they will exploit any tragedy to do it...
> 
> Styx talks cars, knives and the problem with going after the parents......


This couple are not Normal Gun Owners.  Given the evidence released by the District Attorney this is not a Normal Family.  BTW, the parents were on the lamb and were picked up today:









						James and Jennifer Crumbley caught, arrested after vehicle is found in Detroit
					

Detroit police, other officers swarmed near east side in search for James, Jennifer Crumbley, parents of Oxford High School shooting suspect.



					www.freep.com


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## Rye Catcher (Dec 4, 2021)

Rye Catcher said:


> This couple are not Normal Gun Owners.  Given the evidence released by the District Attorney this is not a Normal Family.  BTW, the parents were on the lamb and were picked up today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


BTW, you are not a normal gun owner.


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## sealybobo (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> The democrats want to punish normal gun owners.........and they will exploit any tragedy to do it...
> 
> Styx talks cars, knives and the problem with going after the parents......


I was curious if you gun nuts would be defending these parents. Of course you are.

So everything is political.


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## Baron Von Murderpaws (Dec 4, 2021)

DementocRats play both sides of the problem.   

This way, whatever they say about it, to them, is the truth.......because they play both sides.
Kind of like when your wife starts blaming you for something she did, in order to "start something" to puff up her ego and bring you down, so she can continue to feel superior to you and exercise control over you.


Sorry, couldn't think of another analogy.


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## Baron Von Murderpaws (Dec 4, 2021)

sealybobo said:


> I was curious if you gun nuts would be defending these parents. Of course you are.
> 
> So everything is political.




These days, everything IS political.
Did you just wake up, Rip Van Winkle?


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## sealybobo (Dec 4, 2021)

Toffeenut Baconsmuggler said:


> DementocRats play both sides of the problem.
> 
> This way, whatever they say about it, to them, is the truth.......because they play both sides.
> Kind of like when your wife starts blaming you for something she did, in order to "start something" to puff up her ego and bring you down, so she can continue to feel superior to you and exercise control over you.
> ...


Admit it. Your conservative mind wants to defend these guilty parents.

If you can’t even admit they are guilty, you’re completely brainwashed


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## rightwinger (Dec 4, 2021)

Its a reach to charge the parents at the same time you charge the child as an adult.

They seem to have been exceptionally callous in responding to the threat their son caused.

Where is the gun?

Would be the normal response


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## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

sealybobo said:


> Admit it. Your conservative mind wants to defend these guilty parents.
> 
> If you can’t even admit they are guilty, you’re completely brainwashed




What are they guilty of exactly?    Did you watch the video....of course not....


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## Correll (Dec 4, 2021)

rightwinger said:


> Its a reach to charge the parents at the same time you charge the child as an adult.
> 
> .....



That is an insightful point. Who are you, and what are you doing on RW's computer?


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## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

Rye Catcher said:


> This couple are not Normal Gun Owners.  Given the evidence released by the District Attorney this is not a Normal Family.  BTW, the parents were on the lamb and were picked up today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Is that the same evidence they used to bring Kyle Rittenhouse to court?


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## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

Rye Catcher said:


> BTW, you are not a normal gun owner.




I am an exceptional gun owner...thank you for noticing...


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## Baron Von Murderpaws (Dec 4, 2021)

sealybobo said:


> Admit it. Your conservative mind wants to defend these guilty parents.
> 
> If you can’t even admit they are guilty, you’re completely brainwashed




WHERE the hell did you get that concept from?

Oh, poor sealybobo!!!!
Obviously you've fallen down SEVERAL flights of stairs, smashing your face into each step on the way down!!!



Read my other posts..........THEY ARE GUILTY.


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## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

Rye Catcher said:


> This couple are not Normal Gun Owners.  Given the evidence released by the District Attorney this is not a Normal Family.  BTW, the parents were on the lamb and were picked up today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Is this this same prosecutor holding the Jan. 6 people, the ones who peacefully walked around the capitol building and took selfies,  for over 10 months while releasing actual, violent antifa and blm democrat party brownshirts who who burned and looted, and killed for 7 months....?

Sorry, you shitheads lost the D.A. pressed charges card a long time ago....


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## Baron Von Murderpaws (Dec 4, 2021)

rightwinger said:


> Its a reach to charge the parents at the same time you charge the child as an adult.
> 
> They seem to have been exceptionally callous in responding to the threat their son caused.
> 
> ...




On the RARE occassion I agree with RW..........

It should be written law..........either the parents are 100% responsible for what their underage kids DO and SAY...
or
If a kid knows enough about how to kill another living thing, then they should be tried as an adult that knows what they are doing.


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## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

Toffeenut Baconsmuggler said:


> On the RARE occassion I agree with RW..........
> 
> It should be written law..........either the parents are 100% responsible for what their underage kids DO and SAY...
> or
> If a kid knows enough about how to kill another living thing, then they should be tried as an adult that knows what they are doing.




What about Styx's point about cars and kitchen knives?   Any thoughts?


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## rightwinger (Dec 4, 2021)

Toffeenut Baconsmuggler said:


> On the RARE occassion I agree with RW..........
> 
> It should be written law..........either the parents are 100% responsible for what their underage kids DO and SAY...
> or
> If a kid knows enough about how to kill another living thing, then they should be tried as an adult that knows what they are doing.



I look at the parents being Civilly liable in not securing their weapon and ignoring the schools claim that their son was a threat.
Be difficult for a criminal charge to hold up unless they intentionally procured him a weapon knowing his intent


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## mudwhistle (Dec 4, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Should've secured their gun.


Should have aborted that kid when he was a fetus....but now it's too late.
You can't charge people for something that someone else does. At worst you can fine them. But if you're sending Jackbooted Thugs after them.....you're the one who's wrong.

We had this discussion about a DA who released somebody who drove his SUV into a Christmas Parade.
You folks think the DA isn't responsible.
No....he is partly responsible if he knew the guy had a record of violence and criminal activity.....and chose to set bail at $1000.00.
The parents of this kid are much less liable than that DA is because their kid never murdered anyone before, yet you numbnuts think they should be buried under City Hall because they couldn't STOP their kid from stealing a gun....mainly because if you own a gun and have kids they will get ahold of them if the kid is a rotten thief and has homicidal tendencies. What are the parents supposed to do, abort the kid retroactively?

This is yet another case of the two-tiered justice system in this country....and the constant double-standards of the left.


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## Confederate Soldier (Dec 4, 2021)

These aren't normal gun owners, nor are they good parents. They KNEW what he was capable of, but didn't do anything to stop it.


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## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

rightwinger said:


> I look at the parents being Civilly liable in not securing their weapon and ignoring the schools claim that their son was a threat.
> Be difficult for a criminal charge to hold up unless they intentionally procured him a weapon knowing his intent




How did they ignore the school....they were apparently at a meeting with the principal the day of the attack...how do you know what they did or didn't do in response to any problem their child had.....?

There is a lot of ASSuming here........

And what about the school's responsibilty....we know from the Parkland shooting that they refused to press charges, numerous times, for serious felony behavior due to the obama policy, the Promise Program,  of not prosecuting offenders......what did the school do or not do in the weeks leading up to the shooting....

This isn't as simple as people think.....and when idiots tell us we should believe what the D.A. says, after Rittenhouse and Jan. 6, that isn't going to work anymore....


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## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

mudwhistle said:


> Should have aborted that kid when he was a fetus....but now it's too late.
> You can't charge people for something that someone else does. At worst you can fine them. But if you're sending Jackbooted Thugs after them.....you're the one who's wrong.
> 
> We had this discussion about a DA who released somebody who drove his SUV into a Christmas Parade.
> ...




Yep....exactly, thank you......

And the majority of gun crime in this country is a direct result of democrat party actions and policies...can we sue the party?


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## McRib (Dec 4, 2021)

Rye Catcher said:


> BTW, you are not a normal gun owner.


He's like a kit of gun owners I know, he feels powerless without his guns. Imagine asking a dictator to give up power, it's the same way when discussing sensible gun legislation with these gun humpers, their entire sense of identity and masculinity is dependent on their gun collection.


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## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

Confederate Soldier said:


> These aren't normal gun owners, nor are they good parents. They KNEW what he was capable of, but didn't do anything to stop it.




What did they know exactly?  

As Styx points out.......15 year old boys do a lot of things and they don't shoot people........


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## Flash (Dec 4, 2021)

I watched the arrainment video.

Both the DA and the Judge are textbook Karens.  No justice will be served.   The parents are fucked.


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## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

odanny said:


> He's like a lot of gun owners I've known, he feels powerless without his guns. Imagine asking a dictator to give up power, it's the same way when discussing sensible gun legislation with these gun humpers, their entire sense of identity and masculinity depends on their gun collection.




No...dumb ass....

The democrat party is releasing criminals on a revolving door schedule, they are releasing known, violent offenders with long histories of crime and violence, and they are also hobbling the police in the cities they control..

Violent crime in some of their cities is up 20% or more....because of their policies...rapes, robberies and murders......that is a fact....

Meanwhile, throughout history, shitheads like you told citizens...."give up your guns, what are you afraid of, you are just paranoid...." then their governments murdered 25 million people in Russia, 70 million in China, 1/3 of the population of Cambodia, 12 million in Europe....

You dumb asses have no understanding of human nature or human history......

Sell your bullshit to joe biden voters...


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## Flash (Dec 4, 2021)

odanny said:


> He's like a kit of gun owners I know, he feels powerless without his guns. Imagine asking a dictator to give up power, it's the same way when discussing sensible gun legislation with these gun humpers, their entire sense of identity and masculinity is dependent on their gun collection.




You don't know jackshit about the parents or the kid.  You only know what the Karen DA is telling you.

There is no such thing as Libtard defined "sensible gun legislation".  Just the destruction of Constitutional rights.

Liberal Prosecutors in Democrat controlled big city shitholes won't enforce existing gun laws among the minority population where most of the gun crime in the US takes place so we sure as hell don't need more infringement.


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## gipper (Dec 4, 2021)

Watch as this story runs for many days in the corporate media. The same media that dropped the Waukesha Christmas parade mass murderer story rather quickly.


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## CrusaderFrank (Dec 4, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Should've secured their gun.



Spoken like a true "turn in your parent to the State" Fascist


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## westwall (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> The democrats want to punish normal gun owners.........and they will exploit any tragedy to do it...
> 
> Styx talks cars, knives and the problem with going after the parents......





Maybe.  If they enabled the little shit I have no problem with them being charged as they are.

With Rights come responsibilities.  If they ignored their basic responsibilities they should be fried with rheir little shit off spring.


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## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

westwall said:


> Maybe.  If they enabled the little shit I have no problem with them being charged as they are.
> 
> With Rights come responsibilities.  If they ignored their basic responsibilities they should be fried with rheir little shit off spring.




Remember the black teenage gang member who shot 3 people at a school..in Texas, I think?   Were his parents arrested.....you know, after they released him on bail?

This is why I am not taking this attack on the parents quite the same as others..........the anti-gunners see this as a way to go after all gun owners....not buying into it....


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## Confederate Soldier (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> What did they know exactly?
> 
> As Styx points out.......15 year old boys do a lot of things and they don't shoot people........




They live with the kid, you mean to tell me that they have no idea that he is warped? They were called to the school that morning he killed those kids, and were shown a drawing made by him that showed a gun, the words, "The thoughts won't stop, the world is dead, my life is useless. Help Me!" and a bloody body, and they did NOTHING? Bull. They also let a 15 have a pistol as a Christmas present, WHICH is illegal.


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## CrusaderFrank (Dec 4, 2021)

Why can't we be more like Australia, North Korea or China where only the government good guys have all the guns?


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## Blues Man (Dec 4, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Should've secured their gun.


It was negligence not manslaughter


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## westwall (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Remember the black teenage gang member who shot 3 people at a school..in Texas, I think?   Were his parents arrested.....you know, after they released him on bail?
> 
> This is why I am not taking this attack on the parents quite the same as others..........the anti-gunners see this as a way to go after all gun owners....not buying into it....





Nope, there is not equal application of the law.  That is a given.  But I am tired of asshole parents providing their asshole kids the means to kill good kids.

If it can be shown that these brainless assholes aided and abetted, they should fry with him.


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## gipper (Dec 4, 2021)

westwall said:


> Maybe.  If they enabled the little shit I have no problem with them being charged as they are.
> 
> With Rights come responsibilities.  If they ignored their basic responsibilities they should be fried with rheir little shit off spring.


If two guys who never fired a gun can get life in prison (Arbery Case), the state must have attained the power to imprison parents of an underage serial killer.


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## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

Confederate Soldier said:


> They live with the kid, you mean to tell me that they have no idea that he is warped? They were called to the school that morning he killed those kids, and were shown a drawing made by him that showed a gun, the words, "The thoughts won't stop, the world is dead, my life is useless. Help Me!" and a bloody body, and they did NOTHING? Bull. They also let a 15 have a pistol as a Christmas present, WHICH is illegal.




Again....

Do you know what they were doing before this?  Do you know what the school was doing before this?

Do you know how many homes let their kids shoot guns?   What is the difference between a pistol and a deer rifle?  Or a shotgun?

You really need to think about this before you post......they are running a game on your emotions..


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## rightwinger (Dec 4, 2021)

Confederate Soldier said:


> These aren't normal gun owners, nor are they good parents. They KNEW what he was capable of, but didn't do anything to stop it.


That will be the key

The school showed the parents his violent thoughts. To not secure or dispose of the weapon shows negligence.

It will come down to what did they know and when did they know it.


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## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

westwall said:


> Nope, there is not equal application of the law.  That is a given.  But I am tired of asshole parents providing their asshole kids the means to kill good kids.
> 
> If it can be shown that these brainless assholes aided and abetted, they should fry with him.




If they were negilgent, sure....but I am not just going to accept what the prosecutor says anymore...or the media...are you?

If you just listened to the prosecution and charges against Rittenhouse, or the democrat party media coverage, would you think he was a racist murderer?


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## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

rightwinger said:


> That will be the key
> 
> The school showed the parents his violent thoughts. To not secure or dispose of the weapon shows negligence.
> 
> It will come down to what did they know and when did they know it.




When did the school show him that photo?  How long had the school been informing the parents of this behavior?  What actions did the school take with this information before this event?

Things that need to be known long before judgement is made.....


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## surada (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Remember the black teenage gang member who shot 3 people at a school..in Texas, I think?   Were his parents arrested.....you know, after they released him on bail?
> 
> This is why I am not taking this attack on the parents quite the same as others..........the anti-gunners see this as a way to go after all gun owners....not buying into it....



You want the freedom not to lock up your guns?


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## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

surada said:


> You want the freedom not to lock up your guns?



Yep....as long as they are in my home.....

If I leave them on the sidewalk, you can call the police....

If they are in my home, they are locked up.......anything beyond that is simply dumb asses trying to punish gun owners.


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## westwall (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> If they were negilgent, sure....but I am not just going to accept what the prosecutor says anymore...or the media...are you?
> 
> If you just listened to the prosecution and charges against Rittenhouse, or the democrat party media coverage, would you think he was a racist murderer?




No, that's why I said if the evidence shows that they did, they deserve it.


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## westwall (Dec 4, 2021)

surada said:


> You want the freedom not to lock up your guns?





Yeah, it's MY home.  Not yours.


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## Winston (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Again....
> 
> Do you know what they were doing before this?  Do you know what the school was doing before this?
> 
> ...


So you asked, what is the difference between a pistol and a deer rifle or a shotgun.  I mean to you really have to ask?


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## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

Winston said:


> So you asked, what is the difference between a pistol and a deer rifle or a shotgun.  I mean to you really have to ask?




He could have walked into the school with a deer rifle, or shotgun......


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## McRib (Dec 4, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> It was negligence not manslaughter


The prosecutor has decided otherwise.


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## mudwhistle (Dec 4, 2021)

odanny said:


> He's like a kit of gun owners I know, he feels powerless without his guns. Imagine asking a dictator to give up power, it's the same way when discussing sensible gun legislation with these gun humpers, their entire sense of identity and masculinity is dependent on their gun collection.


Anyone with any sense knows by now that we can't count on the cops to protect us....and if you live in a Blue State City...most likely crime is going up and you need to learn to defend yourself. Most of you are just victims or witness crimes every day....which causes you to pack up and move.
So idiots like you end up moving to my state and bringing your insanity with you. Thus the disease that is progressiveness spreads all over the country.


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## mudwhistle (Dec 4, 2021)

odanny said:


> The prosecutor has decided otherwise.


The prosecutor is probably a triggered snowflake like yourself who feels the need to abuse his authority.


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## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

odanny said:


> The prosecutor has decided otherwise.




And they tried to say Kyle Rittenhouse murdered the two felons.......how'd that turn out?


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## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

mudwhistle said:


> The prosecutor is probably a triggered snowflake like yourself who feels the need to abuse his authority.




And that is why I am not rushing onto the hang the parents band wagon.......


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## Confederate Soldier (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Again....
> 
> Do you know what they were doing before this?  Do you know what the school was doing before this?
> 
> ...




Shooting guns with a parent is different from letting the kid have and handle the gun on his own, and I'm sorry, but the law is the law. Children are not allowed to own handguns.

My mother is a Hunters Education instructor, and my best friend is a firearms safety instructor. I know what I'm talking about.



This kid was OBVIOUSLY not right, and the parents never did anything about it. Period.


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## rightwinger (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> How did they ignore the school....they were apparently at a meeting with the principal the day of the attack...how do you know what they did or didn't do in response to any problem their child had.....?
> 
> There is a lot of ASSuming here........
> 
> ...


That is why we have a trial

The Prosecution will have to prove what they knew and what they could have done.

However, if they had knowledge of his intentions and went out and bought a gun without securing it……they could be culpable


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## White 6 (Dec 4, 2021)

And should not have given the kid the gun as an early Christmas present.


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## mudwhistle (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> And that is why I am not rushing onto the hang the parents band wagon.......


I think the backgrounds of these folks is going to be slow-walked out because it probably will show that they're Biden supporters.


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## Rye Catcher (Dec 4, 2021)

Toffeenut Baconsmuggler said:


> DementocRats play both sides of the problem.
> 
> This way, whatever they say about it, to them, is the truth.......because they play both sides.
> Kind of like when your wife starts blaming you for something she did, in order to "start something" to puff up her ego and bring you down, so she can continue to feel superior to you and exercise control over you.
> ...


Off course not, you are a bigot, a misogynist.  Get some counseling.


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## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

mudwhistle said:


> I think the backgrounds of these folks is going to be slow-walked out because it probably will show that they're Biden supporters.




I hadn't even thought of that.........


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## Winston (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> He could have walked into the school with a deer rifle, or shotgun......


Like the song says, handguns were made for killin, they ain't good for nothing else.  A shotgun, a rifle, they have a purpose other than killing a person.  My ten gauge is for duck, 12 gauge is for pheasant, 16 gauge is for, well it is rare and valuable, 20 gauge is for skeet, and the .410 is for quail, rabbit, and to knock the coon out of the tree so the dogs can get them.  But all those require dogs.  A retriever for the duck, a couple of English setters for the pheasant, at least two Brittany spaniels for the quail, and a pack of beagles for the rabbit.  And of course, some Blueticks for the coons.


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## Donald H (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> The democrats want to punish normal gun owners.........and they will exploit any tragedy to do it...


Yes, a lot of people are fighting back now and everything is fair game.
The pro-gun side made the rules and they made the outcome final and fatal!


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## Turtlesoup (Dec 4, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Should've secured their gun.


So the other parents should have secured their cars, knives, and whatever else their kids used to commit crimes as well then right OTIS?


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## Rye Catcher (Dec 4, 2021)

mudwhistle said:


> I think the backgrounds of these folks is going to be slow-walked out because it probably will show that they're Biden supporters.


Oh shit, yes I mean the same bullshit you use everyday, bullshit with hate and a turd on top.  

Accused Michigan school shooter Ethan Crumbley’s mother wrote an open letter to Donald Trump after the 2016 presidential election praising his support for gun rights:

_“As a female and a Realtor, thank you for allowing my right to bear arms. Allowing me to be protected if I show a home to someone with bad intentions,” Jennifer Crumbley wrote in a blog post, according to the Daily Beast.

“Thank you for respecting that Amendment,” added the mother, who worked as a real estate agent in Michigan, according to the outlet, which noted that her staff bio has been taken down.

Ethan, 15, was charged Wednesday as an adult with first-degree murder, terrorism and assault in the shooting rampage that left four students dead and seven others injured when he allegedly opened fire inside Oxford High School, authorities said.

In her open letter of Nov. 11, 2016, that the Daily Beast posted, Jennifer also referred to school trouble, financial struggles, resentments — but also hope for the future._


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## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

Winston said:


> Like the song says, handguns were made for killin, they ain't good for nothing else.  A shotgun, a rifle, they have a purpose other than killing a person.  My ten gauge is for duck, 12 gauge is for pheasant, 16 gauge is for, well it is rare and valuable, 20 gauge is for skeet, and the .410 is for quail, rabbit, and to knock the coon out of the tree so the dogs can get them.  But all those require dogs.  A retriever for the duck, a couple of English setters for the pheasant, at least two Brittany spaniels for the quail, and a pack of beagles for the rabbit.  And of course, some Blueticks for the coons.




Okay, dipshit....

Americans use their legal guns.......majority handguns......1.2 million times a year against criminal attack...that would be, dumb shit....rapes, robberies, murders, beatings, stabbings....

According to the Centers for Disease Control....1.5 million if you look at the Department of Justice research on defensive gun use...

So no, you twit...handguns are not just for killing since out of those 1.2 or 1.5 million times a year, normal Americans only have to end up killing about 235 criminals each year...the rest run away, surrender or are simply shot and wounded...


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## Turtlesoup (Dec 4, 2021)

mudwhistle said:


> Should have aborted that kid when he was a fetus....but now it's too late.
> You can't charge people for something that someone else does. At worst you can fine them. But if you're sending Jackbooted Thugs after them.....you're the one who's wrong.
> 
> We had this discussion about a DA who released somebody who drove his SUV into a Christmas Parade.
> ...


The mother wrote an open letter to Trump on Twitter or something--oddly, she doesn't sound like a Trump support for sure but since she wrote the letter---she and her husband will be attacked and dragged through the mud as much as possible.   It's twofer--gun owner and someone that they can label as a trump supporter.   For this alone, they must be destroyed.


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## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> So the other parents should have secured their cars, knives, and whatever else their kids used to commit crimes as well then right OTIS?




That brings up a thought......the parents of the black teenager who actually shot 3 people at his school and was then released the next day on bail...

Were his parents arrested for his access to the gun, or access to their car?  If he drove to school that day?


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## Rye Catcher (Dec 4, 2021)

mudwhistle said:


> Anyone with any sense knows by now that we can't count on the cops to protect us....and if you live in a Blue State City...most likely crime is going up and you need to learn to defend yourself. Most of you are just victims or witness crimes every day....which causes you to pack up and move.
> So idiots like you end up moving to my state and bringing your insanity with you. Thus the disease that is progressiveness spreads all over the country.


Kook on steroids ^^^


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## 1srelluc (Dec 4, 2021)

While I think they were over-charged IMHO gun owners should not touch this one with a 10' pole since all the morbid anti-2A ass-holes dreams have just come true.....School shooting with multiple deaths and a unsecured handgun in the home to boot......Some fights you just can't win so you don't waste your resources on them. 

I suspect the parents will plead to something lesser and be sued no end by the families of the victims.....Like a lot of times in life it just sucks to be them right now.


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## mudwhistle (Dec 4, 2021)

Winston said:


> Like the song says, handguns were made for killin, they ain't good for nothing else.  A shotgun, a rifle, they have a purpose other than killing a person.  My ten gauge is for duck, 12 gauge is for pheasant, 16 gauge is for, well it is rare and valuable, 20 gauge is for skeet, and the .410 is for quail, rabbit, and to knock the coon out of the tree so the dogs can get them.  But all those require dogs.  A retriever for the duck, a couple of English setters for the pheasant, at least two Brittany spaniels for the quail, and a pack of beagles for the rabbit.  And of course, some Blueticks for the coons.


Why you blood-thirsty bastard. *Just kidding*


Everyone knows guns are for shooting targets and that's it.

The only game I'm shooting is with a camera.
My hunting days are over.....unless the Dems cause a depression....or completely cut off our meat supply.


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## McRib (Dec 4, 2021)

mudwhistle said:


> The prosecutor is probably a triggered snowflake like yourself who feels the need to abuse his authority.


It's a she, you drooling, inbred moron.


----------



## McRib (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> And they tried to say Kyle Rittenhouse murdered the two felons.......how'd that turn out?



Apples to oranges.


----------



## McRib (Dec 4, 2021)

mudwhistle said:


> I think the backgrounds of these folks is going to be slow-walked out because it probably will show that they're Biden supporters.



She has already posted online her love for Trump, you drooling, inbred moron.


----------



## Winston (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Okay, dipshit....
> 
> Americans use their legal guns.......majority handguns......1.2 million times a year against criminal attack...that would be, dumb shit....rapes, robberies, murders, beatings, stabbings....
> 
> ...


Oh please, 1.2 million times a year my ass.  Here is how they get that number.  Some outfit calls people, have you ever used a gun defensively in the last year.  And hundreds of them say, hell yeah.  They heard a noise outside, stepped on their front porch and fired their gun.  Oh they swear they hit the culprit.  But if what they are saying was true there would have been thousands of gunshot victims in the emergency room.  But there weren't.  More than likely, it was a tree branch rubbing against their window in the wind.  The study that is used to justify that number is so fatally flawed that it is worthless.









						Gun Threats and Self-Defense Gun Use
					

1-3. Guns are not used millions of times each year in self-defense We use epidemiological theory to explain why the “false positive” problem for rare events can lead to large overestimates of the i…




					www.hsph.harvard.edu


----------



## Rye Catcher (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Okay, dipshit....
> 
> Americans use their legal guns.......majority handguns......1.2 million times a year against criminal attack...that would be, dumb shit....rapes, robberies, murders, beatings, stabbings....
> 
> ...











						How Often Do People Use Guns In Self-Defense?
					

Many gun owners say the primary reason they own a firearm is self-defense. But for years, experts have been starkly divided over how often people actually use guns for this purpose.




					www.npr.org
				








__





						Fast Facts: Firearm Violence Prevention |Violence Prevention|Injury Center|CDC
					

What is a firearm injury? Learn fast facts of firearm violence from the CDC Injury Center.




					www.cdc.gov
				




_Although definitions of defensive gun use vary, it is generally defined as the use of a firearm to protect and defend one’s self, family, others, and/or property against crime or victimization.

Estimates of defensive gun use vary depending on the questions asked, populations studied, timeframe, and other factors related to the design of studies. The report Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violenceexternal icon indicates a range of 60,000 to 2.5 million defensive gun uses each year._

"According to the Centers for Disease Control....1.5 million if you look at the Department of Justice research on defensive gun use..."

This is BULLSHIT ^^^;  60,000 to 2.5 million defensive gun uses each year depending on the populations, timeframe and other factors.


----------



## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

Rye Catcher said:


> How Often Do People Use Guns In Self-Defense?
> 
> 
> Many gun owners say the primary reason they own a firearm is self-defense. But for years, experts have been starkly divided over how often people actually use guns for this purpose.
> ...



*This is BULLSHIT ^^^;  60,000 to 2.5 million defensive gun uses each year **depending on the populations, timeframe and other factors*

------

Wow, that is stupid...

Please, Rye Catcher.....tell the class....is 1.2 million between the numbers 60,000 and 2.5 million?

Use your fingers and toes if you have to....


----------



## mudwhistle (Dec 4, 2021)

odanny said:


> It's a she, you drooling, inbred moron.


Why am I not surprised.
Clearly this situation was allowed to happen. 
Seems that in every single case...it happens under the jurisdiction of a female or black female police chief or AG who wants to throw the book at everyone who ever knew the White Supremacist assailant.


----------



## Winston (Dec 4, 2021)

mudwhistle said:


> Why you blood-thirsty bastard.
> 
> 
> Everyone knows guns are for shooting targets and that's it.
> ...


Yes, hunting is a dying art.  Did you know more coons are present today than when Danial Boone was around.  More deer are killed by cars than hunters.  And tell me, who do you know that hunts rabbits?  Most people I know that eat rabbits raise them in cages.  Squirrels, they are every damn where.  Who eats squirrel meat?  But that is not an argument against gun control.  If anything, it supports enhanced gun control.  I mean I got to be honest, if you own a bunch of guns and don't put game on your family's table you are big ass pussy with a tiny ass pecker.  I quail hunt, with dogs, mostly because dogs were a gift from the Gods to teach men how to lead people.  And I was taught by the best, my grandfather, who almost always came home with more birds than shells he used.  He took two at a time, shooting them when they crossed.  And his explanation was simple.  His Dad, who had 16 kids, sent him out with two shotgun shells and told him to get supper.

I live in the foothills of the Blue Ridge mountains.  I know many people that get every bit of their protein from hunting.  I know some that hunt, or raise, every bit of the food they eat.  I even have some friends that are completely off the grid, a water wheel providing electricity and farming and hunting to raise their food.  I can tell you, I doubt a single one of them own a handgun.  Sure, carrying a 45 while boar hunting is not a bad policy.  But it takes balls to face down a charging boar with that 45.  If you don't have balls that big, then you don't deserve to have a 45, or any other pistol.


----------



## Tommy Tainant (Dec 4, 2021)

westwall said:


> Maybe.  If they enabled the little shit I have no problem with them being charged as they are.
> 
> With Rights come responsibilities.  If they ignored their basic responsibilities they should be fried with rheir little shit off spring.


Fucking hell.


----------



## mudwhistle (Dec 4, 2021)

odanny said:


> She has already posted online her love for Trump, you drooling, inbred moron.


I'm sure she has......and that fact cannot be questioned.

And I'm not inbred.

I'm from Montana....and much of my family is either Scottish, Irish, Native-American, Korean, African-American, or British.....with alot of Danish thrown in to the mix. 
There's nothing inbred about me or my family. 
I'm closely related to Daniel Boone, Abraham Lincoln, and King Robert The Bruce.
So cram it.


----------



## westwall (Dec 4, 2021)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Fucking hell.





Yeah, you are fucked in the head.


----------



## Tommy Tainant (Dec 4, 2021)

Its interesting to see how this one plays out. Americans seem to be confused about the extent of parental responsibility. Certainly on this thread. Given that these are the same people invading school board meetings trying to get books banned I find that hypocritical.

But they bought a gun for their crazy kid and he went out and shot up a school. 

They have to take a share of that. They are accessories to a massacre.


----------



## Rye Catcher (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> *This is BULLSHIT ^^^;  60,000 to 2.5 million defensive gun uses each year **depending on the populations, timeframe and other factors*
> 
> ------
> 
> ...



LOL,
*"depending on the populations, timeframe and other factors"*

You are the population and the other factors:


You picked 1.2 million out of the air, because you are a gun lover;
The Population of NRA Members would pick the larger numbers
The number in the links on gun violence has shown lesser numbers for defensive use of a gun, when the vast number of deaths by gun are suicides, accidents and homicides. 
BTW, using this, "Use your fingers and toes if you have to...."as a insult is proof of you inability to be polite when challenged, very childish indeed.


----------



## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

Rye Catcher said:


> LOL,
> *"depending on the populations, timeframe and other factors"*
> 
> You are the population and the other factors:
> ...




No....I cited the number from the Centers for Disease Control...I have cited that number hundreds of times now, as well as the other 18 studies....

I often show all of the studies........you have nothing...

You are lying.....you have seen this information from me over and over again....you really must be a simpleton...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense 

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and  Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million  averaged over  those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*2021 national firearms survey..*

The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,
----
The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.
2021 National Firearms Survey


----------



## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

Rye Catcher said:


> LOL,
> *"depending on the populations, timeframe and other factors"*
> 
> You are the population and the other factors:
> ...




The CDC research....the fiindings they hid....

SSRN Electronic Library



Abstract​In 1996, 1997, and 1998, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) conducted large-scale surveys asking about defensive gun use (DGU) in four to seven states. Analysis of the raw data allows the estimation of the prevalence of DGU for those areas. Data pertaining to the same sets of states from the 1993 National Self-Defense Survey (Kleck and Gertz 1995) allow these results to be extrapolated to the U.S. as a whole. CDC’s survey data confirm previous high estimates of DGU prevalence, disconfirm estimates derived from the National Crime Victimization Survey, and indicate that defensive uses of guns by crime victims are far more common than offensive uses by criminals. CDC has never reported these results.

=========



Reason article on the revised paper..



A Second Look at a Controversial Study About Defensive Gun Use



-------



Original version before he went back to revise it...

The actual paper by Kleck revealing the CDC hiding data..



SSRN Electronic Library

The timing of CDC’s addition of a DGU question to the BRFSS is of some interest. Prior to 1996, the BRFSS had never included a question about DGU. Kleck and Gertz (1995) conducted their survey in February through April 1993, presented their estimate that there were over 2 million DGUs in 1992 at the annual meetings of the American Society of Criminology in November 1994, and published it in the Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology in the Fall of 1995. CDC added a DGU question to the BRFSS the very first year they could do so after that 1995 publication, in the 1996 edition. CDC was not the only federal agency during the Clinton administration to field a survey addressing the prevalence of DGU at that particular time. The National Institute of Justice (NIJ) financed a national survey devoting even more detailed attention to estimating DGU prevalence, which was fielded in November and December 1994, just months after preliminary results of the 1993 Kleck/Gertz survey became known. Neither CDC nor NIJ had ever financed research into DGU before 1996. Perhaps there was just “something in the air” that motivated the two agencies to suddenly decide in 1994 to address the topic. Another interpretation, however, is that fielding of the surveys was triggered by the Kleck/Gertz findings that DGU was common, and that these agencies hoped to obtain lower DGU prevalence estimates than those obtained by Kleck/Gertz. Low estimates would have implied fewer beneficial uses of firearms, results that would have been far more congenial to the strongly pro-control positions of the Clinton administration.


CDC, in Surveys It Never Bothered Making Public, Provides More Evidence That Plenty of Americans Innocently Defend Themselves with Guns



Kleck's new paper—"What Do CDC's Surveys Say About the Frequency of Defensive Gun Uses?"—finds that the agency had asked about DGUs in its Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System in 1996, 1997, and 1998.

Those polls, Kleck writes,



> are high-quality telephone surveys of enormous probability samples of U.S. adults, asking about a wide range of health-related topics. Those that addressed DGU asked more people about this topic than any other surveys conducted before or since. For example, the 1996 survey asked the DGU question of 5,484 people. The next-largest number questioned about DGU was 4,977 by Kleck and Gertz (1995), and sample sizes were much smaller in all the rest of surveys on the topic (Kleck 2001).


Kleck was impressed with how well the survey worded its question: "During the last 12 months, have you confronted another person with a firearm, even if you did not fire it, to protect yourself, your property, or someone else?" Respondents were told to leave out incidents from occupations, like policing, where using firearms is part of the job. Kleck is impressed with how the question excludes animals but includes DGUs outside the home as well as within it.

Kleck is less impressed with the fact that the question was only asked of people who admitted to owning guns in their home earlier in the survey, and that they asked no follow-up questions regarding the specific nature of the DGU incident.

From Kleck's own surveys, he found that only 79 percent of those who reported a DGU "had also reported a gun in their household at the time of the interview," so he thinks whatever numbers the CDC found need to be revised upward to account for that. (Kleck speculates that CDC showed a sudden interest in the question of DGUs starting in 1996 because Kleck's own famous/notorious survey had been published in 1995.)

At any rate, Kleck downloaded the datasets for those three years and found that the "weighted percent who reported a DGU...was 1.3% in 1996, 0.9% in 1997, 1.0% in 1998, and 1.07% in all three surveys combined."





Kleck figures if you do the adjustment upward he thinks necessary for those who had DGU incidents without personally owning a gun in the home at the time of the survey, and then the adjustment downward he thinks necessary because CDC didn't do detailed follow-ups to confirm the nature of the incident, you get 1.24 percent, a close match to his own 1.326 percent figure.

He concludes that the small difference between his estimate and the CDC's "can be attributed to declining rates of violent crime, which accounts for most DGUs. With fewer occasions for self-defense in the form of violent victimizations, one would expect fewer DGUs."

Kleck further details how much these CDC surveys confirmed his own controversial work:



> *The final adjusted prevalence of 1.24% therefore implies that in an average year during 1996–1998, 2.46 million U.S. adults used a gun for self-defense. *
> 
> This estimate, based on an enormous sample of 12,870 cases (unweighted) in a nationally representative sample, strongly confirms the 2.5 million past-12-months estimate obtained Kleck and Gertz (1995)....CDC's results, then, imply that guns were used defensively by victims about 3.6 times as often as they were used offensively by criminals.


----------



## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

Rye Catcher said:


> LOL,
> *"depending on the populations, timeframe and other factors"*
> 
> You are the population and the other factors:
> ...




Another study I cite, over and over again, from the Department of Justice under bill, the rapist, clinton.........when they hired two, anti-gun researchers to refute the findings of Gary Kleck......and they failed...

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

*Applying those restrictions leaves 19 NSPOF respondents (0.8 percent of the sample), representing 1.5 million defensive users. This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known estimate of Kleck and Gertz, shown in the last column of exhibit 7. While the NSPOF estimate is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error. Inclusion of multiple DGUs reported by half of the 19 NSPOF respondents increases the estimate to 4.7 million DGUs.*
*


n the third column of Table 6.2, we apply the Kleck and Gertz (1995) criteria for "genuine" DGUs (type A), leaving us with just 19 respondents. They represent 1.5 million defensive users. This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known Kleck and Gertz estimate of 2.5 million, shown in the last

While ours is smaller, it is staistically plausible that the difference  is due to sampling error.  to the  when we include the multiple DGUs victim. defensive reported by half our 19 respondents, our estimate increases to 4.7 milli

While ours is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference petrator; in most cases (69 percent), the is due to sampling error. Note that  when we include the multiple DGUs reported by half our 19 respondents, our estimate increases to 4.7 million DGUs.
 ----

As shown in Table 6.6, the defender fired his or her gun in 27 percent of these incidents (combined "fire warning shots" and "fire at perpetrator" percentages, though some respondents reported firing both warning shots and airning at the perpetrator). Forty percent of these were "warning shots," and about a third were aimed at the perpetrator but missed. The perpetrator was wounded by the crime victim in eight percent of all DGUs. In nine percent of DGUs the victim captured and held the perpetrator at gunpoint until the police could arrive.*


----------



## iamwhatiseem (Dec 4, 2021)

IT is very early with little information to go off of for me to judge this situation right or wrong.
Clearly these two are TERRIBLE parents. But you can't jail someone for being a sucky parent. We would need to build 100,000 more prisons in this country if that was the case.
The question arises...why did they buy the gun and gave access to their son when they witnessed some concerning behavior and writings/drawings he made. 
  I will wait for judgement once more info in what their role was, if any.


----------



## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

iamwhatiseem said:


> IT is very early with little information to go off of for me to judge this situation right or wrong.
> Clearly these two are TERRIBLE parents. But you can't jail someone for being a sucky parent. We would need to build 100,000 more prisons in this country if that was the case.
> The question arises...why did they buy the gun and gave access to their son when they witnessed some concerning behavior and writings/drawings he made.
> I will wait for judgement once more info in what their role was, if any.




We don't know what they knew or what they were doing with this kid......

The "concerning behavior," we know about came from one meeting with the school principal on the actual day of the event....if there were other signs, we don't know......that hasn't come out yet....but jumping at the information we have at this point is silly......

What access did they give the boy to the gun?   He got the gun, but that doesn't mean they handed it to him or that it wasn't locked up.


----------



## McRib (Dec 4, 2021)

mudwhistle said:


> I'm sure she has......and that fact cannot be questioned.
> 
> And I'm not inbred.
> 
> ...



Cool story, bro.


----------



## Muhammed (Dec 4, 2021)

If the kid had taken a butcher knife out of his parents' kitchen and stabbed a bunch of people to death, would the parents be charged?

Of course not.

This is simply another authoritarian Democrat assault against civil rights.


----------



## mudwhistle (Dec 4, 2021)

Winston said:


> Yes, hunting is a dying art.  Did you know more coons are present today than when Danial Boone was around.  More deer are killed by cars than hunters.  And tell me, who do you know that hunts rabbits?  Most people I know that eat rabbits raise them in cages.  Squirrels, they are every damn where.  Who eats squirrel meat?  But that is not an argument against gun control.  If anything, it supports enhanced gun control.  I mean I got to be honest, if you own a bunch of guns and don't put game on your family's table you are big ass pussy with a tiny ass pecker.  I quail hunt, with dogs, mostly because dogs were a gift from the Gods to teach men how to lead people.  And I was taught by the best, my grandfather, who almost always came home with more birds than shells he used.  He took two at a time, shooting them when they crossed.  And his explanation was simple.  His Dad, who had 16 kids, sent him out with two shotgun shells and told him to get supper.
> 
> I live in the foothills of the Blue Ridge mountains.  I know many people that get every bit of their protein from hunting.  I know some that hunt, or raise, every bit of the food they eat.  I even have some friends that are completely off the grid, a water wheel providing electricity and farming and hunting to raise their food.  I can tell you, I doubt a single one of them own a handgun.  Sure, carrying a 45 while boar hunting is not a bad policy.  But it takes balls to face down a charging boar with that 45.  If you don't have balls that big, then you don't deserve to have a 45, or any other pistol.


The reason we have so much game these days is because of hunters.
Controlled hunting. We had a shortage of game because of sport hunters back around the 1880s.
I don't call it a sport.
Stacks of Buffalo and all they wanted was a single piece of meat from them.
Disgraceful.

I've been hunting with trigger-happy guys with buck fever before.
Guys that blew a box of ammo and got one deer. If you like to shoot the place up all you're doing is giving away your position to game. Fire one shot...forget about seeing anything the rest of the day, so you'd better hit it the first time.


I grew up in the Rocky Mountains and hunted in the grass and sagebrush in Eastern Montana. We didn't set up tree-stands and wait for the game to come to us....we had to go out looking for it. The only time you saw it was early in the morning as the Sun came up when I was a kid. Lately deer are eating the bushes in people's backyards. Here in TN deer eat my flowers and rabbits eat my crops a day or two after I plant them. I see Turkeys every other day in my neighbor's yards....sometimes in mine. But I don't like the taste of either. I prefer Buffalo and Elk....and you can't hunt them or see them here. I also liked Antelope....very sweet meat. None of that here. Don't like the taste of Duck or Pheasant.....but I have gone out with my school to count them to see how their populations were doing. I killed a Rabbit a while back with my Beebee gun from my back porch. Got tired of them eating my lettuce.

I own guns that I never shot yet.....haven't even gone to the range to zero them. Most of my shooting was when I was in the military. I actually trained people how to take down a building. I like to collect guns like my Yugo M48 8mm Bolt-action Mauser. But I've shot dozens of military weapons. Some people think they know how to shoot, but they really don't. I spent 2 solid months 16 hour days on the range. Learned how to shoot indoors in hostage situations. Personally I resent anyone who says if I own a gun I need to shoot it all of the time. I learned that if you know what you're doing...you're going to hit what you're aiming at. The principle is simple. With pistols it's front sightpost and squeeze. If you're surprised by the recoil you're going to be more accurate rather than anticipating recoil. I'm usually more accurate with other people's guns than they are with their own. We practiced Ball&Dummy to prevent anticipation. We'd practice squeezing the trigger by dry-firing with a dime on the sights.

When I was in Somalia we shot a wild boar from a UH-60 Blackhawk using an M24 Sniper system, and that was the best meat I ever ate. Yummy.


----------



## mudwhistle (Dec 4, 2021)

odanny said:


> Cool story, bro.


Feel the burn, bitch.


----------



## ClaireH (Dec 4, 2021)

westwall said:


> Maybe.  If they enabled the little shit I have no problem with them being charged as they are.
> 
> With Rights come responsibilities.  If they ignored their basic responsibilities they should be fried with rheir little shit off spring.


It appears, if the reports are correct, that both the school and the parents would fail a basic IQ test. IQ test question: determine the best response from the following scenario: A teenager draws violent pictures depicting guns and shooting. After a teacher reported the incident parents came in and met with school heads. This was the second day of school meetings due to teenagers in-school actions. Parents were aware there was an unsecured gun presumably at home. What happens at the meeting? *Nobody checks his backpack nor locker- not one school authority nor parent. *Wth!? MAJOR fail…….the school failed and the parents failed. That one action alone would’ve saved all lives taken. Total ineptness. True about hindsight always better but that blows my mind that neither of his parents connected the dots nor at least mentioned that a gun could be in his backpack or locker. School is blaming parents for not checking his backpack but both are possibly liable.

From the email his mom sent sounds like she is the type who wants to be “a friend” to her son, not a parent, texting him after knowing the school trouble “lol I’m not mad at you” and “you need to learn not to get caught”. I guess she should’ve taught him more about that last part - what piece of work.


----------



## Otis Mayfield (Dec 4, 2021)

Muhammed said:


> If the kid had taken a butcher knife out of his parents' kitchen and stabbed a bunch of people to death, would the parents be charged?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> This is simply another authoritarian Democrat assault against civil rights.




It's a lot easier to run from a knife than a 9mm bullet.


----------



## mudwhistle (Dec 4, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> It's a lot easier to run from a knife than a 9mm bullet.


Depends on who's doing the shooting.


----------



## Muhammed (Dec 4, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> It's a lot easier to run from a knife than a 9mm bullet.


So what? How is that relevant?


----------



## sealybobo (Dec 4, 2021)

rightwinger said:


> Its a reach to charge the parents at the same time you charge the child as an adult.
> 
> They seem to have been exceptionally callous in responding to the threat their son caused.
> 
> ...


There are a lot of people in prison who’s parents should probably be in there too. This is one of those cases. But still I would charge the kid and parents. He knew what he was doing was wrong. His mom texted him don’t do it.

Maybe if he would have taken his meds someone might say. I don’t want to hope he’s taking them. If he’s capable of murder he shouldn’t be living among us.  And since republicans like straw purchases, we can’t trust the system would stop him from buying a gun

I don’t care what the circumstances are for Ted buddy or this kid. They should neve4 be set free. Didnt they let John lenons or Ronald Reagan’s shooter out? I think the guy who shot Reagan is free. Why? Are you really sure they won’t kill again?


----------



## sealybobo (Dec 4, 2021)

mudwhistle said:


> Depends on who's doing the shooting.


I’ve heard this argument before


----------



## sealybobo (Dec 4, 2021)

Toffeenut Baconsmuggler said:


> DementocRats play both sides of the problem.
> 
> This way, whatever they say about it, to them, is the truth.......because they play both sides.
> Kind of like when your wife starts blaming you for something she did, in order to "start something" to puff up her ego and bring you down, so she can continue to feel superior to you and exercise control over you.
> ...


What is your truth here?


----------



## sealybobo (Dec 4, 2021)

Confederate Soldier said:


> These aren't normal gun owners, nor are they good parents. They KNEW what he was capable of, but didn't do anything to stop it.


As long as you aren’t defending them that’s cool. It shows you are not completely dug in on the issue and able to not politicize this.


----------



## sealybobo (Dec 4, 2021)

mudwhistle said:


> Should have aborted that kid when he was a fetus....but now it's too late.
> You can't charge people for something that someone else does. At worst you can fine them. But if you're sending Jackbooted Thugs after them.....you're the one who's wrong.
> 
> We had this discussion about a DA who released somebody who drove his SUV into a Christmas Parade.
> ...


Yes you can charge parents for what their kids do especially if you buy him a gun that he couldn’t legally buy himself because he wasn’t 18


----------



## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

sealybobo said:


> Yes you can charge parents for what their kids do especially if you buy him a gun that he couldn’t legally buy himself because he wasn’t 18




You mean like all the kids with hunting rifles.......when they are too young to actually own them, but are essentially their gun?

You idiots don't know enough about this situation to post about it.....


----------



## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

sealybobo said:


> As long as you aren’t defending them that’s cool. It shows you are not completely dug in on the issue and able to not politicize this.




We don't know enough to defend or not defend these parents....

How about the parent/parents of the black teenager who shot 3 people at his school, was given bail, was out of jail in a day, and his parent/parents gave him a party?

Should they have been arrested?


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## westwall (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> We don't know enough to defend or not defend these parents....
> 
> How about the parent/parents of the black teenager who shot 3 people at his school, was given bail, was out of jail in a day, and his parent/parents gave him a party?
> 
> Should they have been arrested?





The fact that they ran and hid tells me a lot about them.


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## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

westwall said:


> The fact that they ran and hid tells me a lot about them.




Really?   Have you ever had the press converge on your home....a rabid, anti-gun democrat party press.......?  After what they did and said about Rittenhouse.....? 

And the other anti-gun left loons?   

You can say you wouldn't simply want to go somewhere they couldn't find and harrass you?


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## westwall (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Really?   Have you ever had the press converge on your home....a rabid, anti-gun democrat party press.......?  After what they did and said about Rittenhouse.....?
> 
> And the other anti-gun left loons?
> 
> You can say you wouldn't simply want to go somewhere they couldn't find and harrass you?





No, but friends, yes.  The second they knew that charges were leveled they should have turned themselves in.


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## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

westwall said:


> No, but friends, yes.  The second they knew that charges were leveled they should have turned themselves in.




Their lawyers says they planned to...but missed the appointment......they still may not have been running......

Can you imagine being in their situation?   It is a lot to deal with...........


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## westwall (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Their lawyers says they planned to...but missed the appointment......they still may not have been running......
> 
> Can you imagine being in their situation?   It is a lot to deal with...........





Who cares what their lawyers said.


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## mudwhistle (Dec 4, 2021)

sealybobo said:


> Yes you can charge parents for what their kids do especially if you buy him a gun that he couldn’t legally buy himself because he wasn’t 18


That's a different law. They're charging the parents with man-slaughter.
What you're talking about is a weapons charge....a straw gun purchase.....and from what has been reported....the gun didn't belong to the kid. He stole it from his parents.


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## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

mudwhistle said:


> That's a different law. They're charging the parents with man-slaughter.
> What you're talking about is a weapons charge.




Isn't it cute when anti-gun fascists pretend like they know something about truth, facts or reality.......?


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## sealybobo (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> We don't know enough to defend or not defend these parents....
> 
> How about the parent/parents of the black teenager who shot 3 people at his school, was given bail, was out of jail in a day, and his parent/parents gave him a party?
> 
> Should they have been arrested?


Yes they should have. Circumstances matter


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## sealybobo (Dec 4, 2021)

mudwhistle said:


> That's a different law. They're charging the parents with man-slaughter.
> What you're talking about is a weapons charge....a straw gun purchase.....and from what has been reported....the gun didn't belong to the kid. He stole it from his parents.


They bought it for him for his birthday.

The straw purchase was my argument for why we should never let these people out. Even though they legally can’t own a gun doesn’t mean they aren’t capable of buying one.


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## sealybobo (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Isn't it cute when anti-gun fascists pretend like they know something about truth, facts or reality.......?


I was just mentioning straw purchases. Don’t read into it.


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## sealybobo (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Isn't it cute when anti-gun fascists pretend like they know something about truth, facts or reality.......?


Of course you defend the parents. Shocker


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## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

sealybobo said:


> They bought it for him for his birthday.
> 
> The straw purchase was my argument for why we should never let these people out. Even though they legally can’t own a gun doesn’t mean they aren’t capable of buying one.




Moron......

People buy guns for their children all the time........they could have bought him a shotgun or rifle to the same effect...........

And this is why we fight you shitheads.....

You would arrest a parent buying a shotgun they intend to allow their kid to use...or a hunting rifle...


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## mudwhistle (Dec 4, 2021)

sealybobo said:


> They bought it for him for his birthday.
> 
> The straw purchase was my argument for why we should never let these people out. Even though they legally can’t own a gun doesn’t mean they aren’t capable of buying one.


If that's the case why didn't they charge them?


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## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

sealybobo said:


> Of course you defend the parents. Shocker




I believe in the right to a trial......and the truth, facts and reality....

I know what you shitheads said about Rittenhouse....so sell your bullshit somewhere else.


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## sealybobo (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Moron......
> 
> People buy guns for their children all the time........they could have bought him a shotgun or rifle to the same effect...........
> 
> ...


No I wouldn’t. My nephews use our guns. But if they took my brothers guns and killed, my brother could be charged based on the circumstances.

You can’t help defend the shooter and his parents. Not surprised


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## sealybobo (Dec 4, 2021)

mudwhistle said:


> If that's the case why didn't they charge them?


I thought they were being charged.


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## sealybobo (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> I believe in the right to a trial......and the truth, facts and reality....
> 
> I know what you shitheads said about Rittenhouse....so sell your bullshit somewhere else.


You disagree with us? Of course you do. If we argued white is white you’d say no it’s not.


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## mudwhistle (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> I believe in the right to a trial......and the truth, facts and reality....
> 
> I know what you shitheads said about Rittenhouse....so sell your bullshit somewhere else.


These folks totally ignored the Christmas Parade attack and only want to focus on this one. 
I'm just about fed up with their predictable nonsense.


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## mudwhistle (Dec 4, 2021)

sealybobo said:


> I thought they were being charged.


With manslaughter....thus the reason for the debate.


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## 2aguy (Dec 4, 2021)

mudwhistle said:


> These folks totally ignored the Christmas Parade attack and only want to focus on this one.
> I'm just about fed up with their predictable nonsense.




Their prayers to their god..."government," were answered...the Christmas massacre by the blm guy was passed over.....a non-christmas miracle for them....


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## McRib (Dec 4, 2021)

ClaireH said:


> It appears, if the reports are correct, that both the school and the parents would fail a basic IQ test. IQ test question: determine the best response from the following scenario: A teenager draws violent pictures depicting guns and shooting. After a teacher reported the incident parents came in and met with school heads. This was the second day of school meetings due to teenagers in-school actions. Parents were aware there was an unsecured gun presumably at home. What happens at the meeting? *Nobody checks his backpack nor locker- not one school authority nor parent. *Wth!? MAJOR fail…….the school failed and the parents failed. That one action alone would’ve saved all lives taken. Total ineptness. True about hindsight always better but that blows my mind that neither of his parents connected the dots nor at least mentioned that a gun could be in his backpack or locker. School is blaming parents for not checking his backpack but both are possibly liable.
> 
> From the email his mom sent sounds like she is the type who wants to be “a friend” to her son, not a parent, texting him after knowing the school trouble “lol I’m not mad at you” and “you need to learn not to get caught”. I guess she should’ve taught him more about that last part - what piece of work.



Absolutely spot on, every word.


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## McRib (Dec 4, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Their prayers to their god..."government," were answered...the Christmas massacre by the blm guy was passed over.....a non-christmas miracle for them....



When you were a young child or teen, did you suffer a traumatic brain injury?


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## jasonnfree (Dec 4, 2021)

mudwhistle said:


> Anyone with any sense knows by now that we can't count on the cops to protect us....and if you live in a Blue State City...most likely crime is going up and you need to learn to defend yourself. Most of you are just victims or witness crimes every day....which causes you to pack up and move.
> So idiots like you end up moving to my state and bringing your insanity with you. Thus the disease that is progressiveness spreads all over the country.


Maybe you have a link to back up what you say?  A couple links I came across showed red states as having more violence and crime.








						Red States Have Higher Crime Rates Than Blue States - Smart Politics
					

Red states across the nation have both higher violent and property crime rates than blue states, across several measures of partisanship




					smartpolitics.lib.umn.edu
				











						‘Democrat-run cities’ fuel the economy, keep many red states afloat
					

Even a cursory analysis of crime in America roundly debunks Trump and his allies’ claims that Democratic policies fuel violence.




					thehill.com


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## mudwhistle (Dec 4, 2021)

jasonnfree said:


> Maybe you have a link to back up what you say?  A couple links I came across showed red states as having more violence and crime.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's total horseshit. And your link was from 2009.


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## jasonnfree (Dec 4, 2021)

jasonnfree said:


> Maybe you have a link to back up what you say?  A couple links I came across showed red states as having more violence and crime.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





mudwhistle said:


> That's total horseshit. And your link was from 2009.


But it is a link!  More than you gave us. You didn't even read the links.


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## mudwhistle (Dec 4, 2021)

jasonnfree said:


> But it is a link!  More than you gave us. You didn't even read the links.


I know you cannot be serious.
What do you think has been going on in this country since April 2020?


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## mudwhistle (Dec 4, 2021)

westwall said:


> The fact that they ran and hid tells me a lot about them.


I heard they were at the Capital in Jan 6th.


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## ClaireH (Dec 4, 2021)

westwall said:


> Who cares what their lawyers said.


Until further noted, I’m going with the lawyer was finally able to contact them and told them that they better get back “here” because they’d created a bigger mess not picking up their phones earlier and news had spread they’d run, so they complied. No evidence, only working with bits and pieces.


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## Blues Man (Dec 5, 2021)

odanny said:


> The prosecutor has decided otherwise.


And he can't ever be wrong?


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## McRib (Dec 5, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> And he can't ever be wrong?


That's for a judge and jury to decide.


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## 2aguy (Dec 13, 2021)

jasonnfree said:


> Maybe you have a link to back up what you say?  A couple links I came across showed red states as having more violence and crime.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





2aguy said:


> The democrats want to punish normal gun owners.........and they will exploit any tragedy to do it...
> 
> Styx talks cars, knives and the problem with going after the parents......



A look at the two different shootings....

*The divergent reactions to the Kempczinski text message and the Crumbleys’ indictment illuminate the different standards to which minority parents and white parents are held. When black juveniles perpetrate street violence, the press and public officials almost never ask: where were the parents? The less involved a parent is in a child’s life, the less society expects of him. These double standards may have a benign intent, but they enable a cultural dysfunction whose effects are thousands of times more lethal than school shootings.*
*
Kempczinski made his ill-fated suggestion of parental responsibility after seven-year-old Jaslyn Adams was gunned down by her father’s gang rivals. Jaslyn and her father Jontae Adams were parked in a McDonald’s drive-thru lane on Chicago’s West Side on April 18, 2021, when two gunmen jumped out of a car and unleashed at least 45 shots at their car. Jaslyn was struck six times and died; Jontae was seriously wounded. A convicted heroin dealer, Jontae knew that his gang’s enemies were out for his blood. The day before the shooting, he tweeted: “Opps probably downstairs waiting on me.”

A few weeks before Jaslyn Adams’s murder, 13-year-old Adam Toledo was out running the streets at 2:30 a.m. with a fellow gang member. Both Toledo and his associate Ruben Roman were armed. ShotSpotter technology picked up eight rounds of gunfire from the pair; two calls to 911 also reported the shots. Toledo and Roman fled from the responding officers; the officer who chased Toledo down an alley shouted at him to “stop it” or “drop it [i.e., the gun].” In an almost instantaneous succession of events, Toledo wheeled toward the officer with his gun in his hand, then dropped the weapon and put his hands up. A fraction of a second later, the officer shot him once, fatally. Opinion is divided on whether the cop was justified in firing his weapon.
*
*A day after the Jaslyn Adams murder, Chicago mayor Lori Lightfoot paid an unrelated visit to McDonald’s headquarters. Kempczinski thanked Lightfoot via text message for her visit and added: regarding the “tragic shootings. . . , both at our restaurant yesterday and with Adam Toldeo [sic]. With both, the parents failed those kids which I know is something you can’t say. Even harder to fix.”*









						The Media’s Color-Coded Parenting Standard | City Journal
					

White parents of school shooters are culpable; black parents of inner-city gangbangers are blameless.




					www.city-journal.org


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## 2aguy (Dec 13, 2021)

jasonnfree said:


> Maybe you have a link to back up what you say?  A couple links I came across showed red states as having more violence and crime.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




And you didn't look deep enough......Red States have cities controlled by the democrat party.....

*Louisiana.*...Red State....blue cities... 

Baton Rouge.....democrats since 2005.....and before that.....outside of two republican terms, democrats going back to 1872

New Orleans....democrat control since 1872

Missouri......Red State, blue cities......

St. Louis....democrats since 1949

Kansas City....one republican 1979-1991....the rest democrats, going back to 1930


So....please.....sell that silliness to someone else....


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## 2aguy (Dec 13, 2021)

And this......

*The fight [between Simpkins and a 15-year-old fellow student] was broken up and the two students calmed down, but then Simpkins pulled out a firearm from his orange backpack and fired several shots that struck three people … Calvin Pettitt, a 25-year-old English teacher who jumped in to break up the fight, was shot in the back, suffering broken ribs and a collapsed lung, according to police and his family.*

*The other victims were identified as Zacchaeus Selby, Eyimofe Olawepo and Pariesa Altma … Police have said a 15-year-old boy was in critical condition, while a teenage girl who was grazed by a bullet had been discharged from the hospital. The fourth victim, a pregnant woman, was injured in a fall during the shooting ...
-----
“Narrative.” Hmm. I’m not entirely sure what other “narrative” the media is supposed to take when a deranged shooter opens fire on classmates, bullying or not. Even notwithstanding the seeming difficulty of proving a 15-year-old was actually “bullying” this 18-year-old, the “self-defense” defense seems suspect, though they certainly will give it their best shot in court. *

*Don’t get me wrong. I’m as pro-self-defense as they come. 

However, even if the bullying claims are even remotely true, bringing a loaded gun to one of the few places in the country where guns (in the hands of students) are not and should not be allowed and firing it at multiple people, including a teacher - AFTER the fight that apparently sparked it had already ended - sounds like not just an absurdly disproportionate response, but outright attempted murder. 
-----

Yet, it seems that prosecutors are already giving Simpkins a light touch. Instead of multiple counts of attempted murder, this 18-year-old MAN is being charged with three counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. And he gets to sit at home while awaiting trial. Because, clearly, an adult who brings a weapon and opens fire in a school isn’t a danger to himself or anyone else.*









						A Tale of Two School Shootings
					






					townhall.com


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## 2aguy (Dec 13, 2021)

jasonnfree said:


> Maybe you have a link to back up what you say?  A couple links I came across showed red states as having more violence and crime.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




another one......Indiana....Red as the come.....

Blue city...

Gary, Indiana...democrat party control since 1943

What we see here are cities in Red States, controlled by the democrat party, skewing their gun crime and gun murder rates so you can post those llinks.....


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## 2aguy (Dec 13, 2021)

jasonnfree said:


> Maybe you have a link to back up what you say?  A couple links I came across showed red states as having more violence and crime.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Your first link is from 2009....

Another state, taken from your link for homicides...

South Carlina....Red state...

Blue city...

Charleston, South Carolina.....from your link.....democrat control since 1877

Columbia, South Carolina?   The link doesn't give political affiliation....but the first two you can link too....?  Democrats going back to 1990


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## whitehall (Dec 13, 2021)

If lefties want to make a statement about access to firearms they should consider indicting Barry Hussein and the ATF leadership for the death of a U.S. Border Patrol agent killed with one of the weapons the Obama administration shipped to Mexico.


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## 2aguy (Dec 13, 2021)

jasonnfree said:


> Maybe you have a link to back up what you say?  A couple links I came across showed red states as having more violence and crime.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




From your first link...

Tennessee...Red State....blue cities....

Nashville.....democrat party control since at least 1975...the link going to the mayors after that point don't give political party quickly....

So....Red States.....with blue cities controlled by the democrat party and their policies.......

The democrat party creates just about 95% of our gun crime problem in this country......by attacking and handicapping the police, then releasing known, repeat gun offenders over and over again..


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## 2aguy (Dec 13, 2021)

jasonnfree said:


> Maybe you have a link to back up what you say?  A couple links I came across showed red states as having more violence and crime.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Two your second link....

*Now it’s true that the average taxpayer in blue states pays a higher per capita income tax than the average taxpayer in red states. But that’s because those states — particularly Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York and California — have more rich people. Don’t the Democrats want the rich paying their fair share?*
*
As for blue states allegedly getting back less, what numbers are they looking at? It is true that red states receive 35.75 percent on average of their budgets from the federal government, while blue states receive 30.80 percent. 

But this is because the blue states’ budgets are far larger due to all the bloat and waste. 

The 10 states in the best fiscal condition are almost all red states. 

The 10 states with the worst numbers in the red are almost all blue states.
----
The higher the taxes, the more mismanaged a state is. CNBC examined the infrastructure of every state — roads, airports, water systems and ports — and found that the places with the worst-rated infrastructure are six Democratic states, which also rank among the highest in taxes collected per resident: Connecticut, Hawaii, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, and New York.
----
Kyle Sammin at The Federalist found that if you look at the amount of money the federal government gives to states on a per capita basis instead, blue states get more; $2,124 per resident. Red states receive just $1,879 on average.

Matt Palumbo writing at The Dan Bongino Show found that even if red states receive more in federal welfare, it’s not going to Republicans. Those on public assistance, as well as long-term unemployment, are overwhelmingly Democrats.*





Behind the Misleading Statement That Blue States Subsidize Red States


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## flewism (Dec 13, 2021)

The manslaughter charges might not be sustained.    It is illegal for a minor to own a hand gun in Michigan.  So if the prosecution can prove beyond a shadow of doubt that the father as the legal hand gun owner  gifted the gun to the 15 year old son and that it was not stolen.    Currently in Michigan there is no law requiring adults to secure any weapon when minors are present.  It does sound like that is about to change.


----------

