# Self-publishing



## BDBoop (Dec 1, 2011)

"Eisler shocked the industry earlier this year when he walked away
from a half million dollar advance from St. Martins Press in favor of
self-publishing. Eisler was already a best-selling thriller author."

Independence Day 2011: Heroes Of Self-Publishing, Amanda Hocking, John Locke And Other Indie Author Success Stories (PHOTOS)

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Sold-Million-eBooks-Months-ebook/dp/B0056BMK6K/ref=tmm_kin_title_0?ie=UTF8&m=AG56TWVU5XWC2&qid=1322761000&sr=1-12]Amazon.com: How I Sold 1 Million eBooks in 5 Months! eBook: John Locke: Kindle Store[/ame]

I am buying this. I shall read it.


----------



## WinterBorn (May 24, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> "Eisler shocked the industry earlier this year when he walked away
> from a half million dollar advance from St. Martins Press in favor of
> self-publishing. Eisler was already a best-selling thriller author."
> 
> ...



I'm working on formatting my work now so I can self-publish through Smashwords.


----------



## Big Fitz (May 24, 2012)

I've written tabletop RPG suppliments in the past.  I hope this latest project reaches beta testing this summer.  I'd really hope to publish this one.


----------



## Saigon (May 24, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> "Eisler shocked the industry earlier this year when he walked away
> from a half million dollar advance from St. Martins Press in favor of
> self-publishing. Eisler was already a best-selling thriller author."
> 
> .



That is weird...makes no sense to me at all. And St Martin's is a fine publisher as well.


----------



## Big Fitz (May 24, 2012)

Saigon said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > "Eisler shocked the industry earlier this year when he walked away
> ...


I guess there is more money in self-publishing.  I know it can be done if you put the effort into it.


----------



## BDBoop (May 24, 2012)

My nephew is doing well. Course, he only has one book out, but is actively working on two others. And he used to be full-on "traditional press is the only way to go."


----------



## BDBoop (May 24, 2012)

WinterBorn said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > "Eisler shocked the industry earlier this year when he walked away
> ...



Self-publish through Amazon. You will do ever-so-much better. HUGE audience.


----------



## Saigon (May 24, 2012)

Fitz - 

It can be done, but self-publishing is largely a scam. The companies make money not by selling books, but by cashing your check. They have no motive to sell books. 

Some books take off and everyone is happy, but it's a rarity. It's only those that can rarely market the book through a particular channel (i.e. speaking at conferences) that usually work. 

(I used to run a book publishing company, btw)


----------



## gxnelson (May 24, 2012)

Big Fitz said:


> I've written tabletop RPG suppliments in the past.  I hope this latest project reaches beta testing this summer.  I'd really hope to publish this one.



off topic, but I love your pic.


----------



## BDBoop (May 24, 2012)

Amazon. Kindle. 

/end thread


----------



## Big Fitz (May 24, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Fitz -
> 
> It can be done, but self-publishing is largely a scam. The companies make money not by selling books, but by cashing your check. They have no motive to sell books.
> 
> ...


Not referring to Vanity Press.  In that you're absolutely right.  I'm referring to using other "Just in time" printing services, Electronic Publishing, PDFs or things like that.  In the RPG industry, this is revolutionizing games.  Big companies are dying off and self publishing small press are flourishing.  Some are doing quite well too depending on game popularity.  Pathfinder for instance is doing very well because people don't like where D&D is going with WOTC screwing it into "World of Warcrack on Paper".


----------



## Big Fitz (May 24, 2012)

gxnelson said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > I've written tabletop RPG suppliments in the past.  I hope this latest project reaches beta testing this summer.  I'd really hope to publish this one.
> ...


Thanks;

I side with River Song on the fez, but I love the quote with the pic.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZZm0TA5FwU]Doctor Who - What In The Name Of Sanity Have You Got On Your Head? - YouTube[/ame]

(Not to mention I'm an Alex Kingston fan from ER)


----------



## Saigon (May 24, 2012)

Fitz - 

Yes, some of those might be a much better deal. 

But there is still the issue of marketing - how do you get people to notice your book? 

I know people think there book will stand out on Amazon or wherever...but realistically they just won't. It has to be very original, very well concepted and well edited - and for that you need a professional editor, which isn't cheap. Editors do more than fix typos - a lot of it is about concepting, formatting and creating a readable product.


----------



## BDBoop (May 24, 2012)

Amanda Hocking, the writer who made millions by self-publishing online | Books | The Guardian

We find ways.


----------



## Saigon (May 24, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> Amanda Hocking, the writer who made millions by self-publishing online | Books | The Guardian
> 
> We find ways.



It can done, without question - but it is a fair bet that perhaps 95% of people who self-publish a book lose money. Many will feel very hurt by the experience - and you can find these comments ad nauseum on internet forums. 

People who choose to do it need to recognise that, work with a good editor, and be very aware of what they are doing and why.


----------



## Big Fitz (May 24, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Fitz -
> 
> Yes, some of those might be a much better deal.
> 
> ...


Facebook, Blogs, Social Media, Co-Branding & Marketing, Internet Ads, SEO salespitch pages, user reviews, online articles.... To name a few.  If you're using a site that will do the printing for you, set the price for what you want to make per product, and go for it.  It's more expensive than buying a large batch from a printer and shipping it yourself, but you don't have to worry about inventory and shipping and all the other headaches.  

Oh I have done research on this before.  Just lacked the product and the business.... drive.... to pull it off.


----------



## Big Fitz (May 24, 2012)

Saigon said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > Amanda Hocking, the writer who made millions by self-publishing online | Books | The Guardian
> ...


To quote a comic book professional I heard speak once:

"Art gets the first buy, content keeps them coming back." 

This means that you won't do well unless you have a good product to sell. Then you also must remember Sturgeon's Law.

"90% of Science Fiction is crap," (Wait for the outrage to subside) "then again, 90% of EVERYTHING is crap."

I may not have run a publishing company, I respect that.  But I have done my homework.


----------



## WinterBorn (May 24, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...



Smashwords lists their books on Apple iBookstore, Barnes & Noble, Sony, Kobo, the Diesel eBook Store, and others.  You can also still list your ebook on Amazon.


----------



## WinterBorn (May 24, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Fitz -
> 
> It can be done, but self-publishing is largely a scam. The companies make money not by selling books, but by cashing your check. They have no motive to sell books.
> 
> ...



If you are talking about self publishing companies that charge you to publish, yes they are probably scams.

But many of the venues for self publishing are in the ebook range.  For example, I am listing a novella on Smashwords.  They don't charge me a dime.  They make their money by getting a percentage of the sales.


----------



## BDBoop (May 24, 2012)

WinterBorn said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



I know. My nephew has done it all.


----------



## Saigon (May 24, 2012)

Big Fitz said:


> "90% of Science Fiction is crap," (Wait for the outrage to subside) "then again, 90% of EVERYTHING is crap."
> 
> I may not have run a publishing company, I respect that.  But I have done my homework.



Having worked in book publishing, I know anything marked 'short story', 'novella', 'sci fi', 'fantasy' or worst of all, 'poetry' is likely to be dumped staright into the bin. 

Saying 90% is crap is far, far too kind. 

Of the manuscripts sent to publishers, probably 99% of laugh-out-oud bad.


----------



## BDBoop (May 24, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > "90% of Science Fiction is crap," (Wait for the outrage to subside) "then again, 90% of EVERYTHING is crap."
> ...



Yup! And that's why we are going around you all.


----------



## Saigon (May 24, 2012)

BdBoop - 

Sidestepping publishers won't make terribly books sell. It gets them out there for friends and family to buy, but a terrible book is still a terrible book, even in electronic format. 

Publishers do not reject books purely because they lack literary merit - but because they lack sales potential.

I don't mean to be smashing peoples dreams here - I'm just trying tp put aross the reality of publishing. 

Selling a book succesffuly is no easier than launching a band and setting out to conquer the world.


----------



## BDBoop (May 24, 2012)

My nephew shopped a book for a year - and when he self-publishes that one, I will let you know. The book he did release is doing great. So: I'm sorry, but I just can no longer swallow the premise that you all should be the arbiters of what people need to have access to, i.e. what will, in your estimation, 'sell.'


----------



## Saigon (May 24, 2012)

Bd - 

It's not about being an 'arbiter', it's about having an understanding of what works and what does not work. 

It's not a 100% science, and of course some self-published books will find a niche market, and some way sell well. But based on the last ressearch I saw, around 95% do not. 

At one stage, the average sale for self-published books (excluding academic books, which work better) was around 38 copies. Sales of over 100 were almost unknown.


----------



## BDBoop (May 24, 2012)

At what stage.


----------



## Saigon (May 24, 2012)

Bd - 

I don't recall a lot about the survey I saw, but I may try to find it. It was a couple of years ago now. 

The conclusion was that people like academics often do well, because they can email colleagues around the world, or speak at seminars and reach a ready audience. Likewise, someone like a motivational speakers or TV host can basically market their own book.

But people selling fiction or memoirs....most sales will be to friends and family.


----------



## Unkotare (May 25, 2012)

Big Fitz said:


> I guess there is more money in self-publishing.



Not for 99.999% there isn't.


----------



## Big Fitz (May 25, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > I guess there is more money in self-publishing.
> ...


Sturgeons law applies even to writers.  90% of all writers never see the light of day.  Out of the rest, they have a chance, but that's all.

Think of it this way, what's the failure rate of new businesses?  75%  80%?  Franchises I know can be even harder.  In the creative fields, what's unemployment for actors in their field?  95%?  Musicians have it a little better, but not by much.  Artists?  Dear gawd!

I got to interview an author once about the job career and as she put it, more people are in love with the IDEA of being a writer, than with the actual effort of BEING a writer.

So, this is not a surprise that so many don't make it.  It's always been that way.  Self publishing only makes it somewhat easier.  Unfortunately, it lowered the bar for putting out crap too.


----------



## BDBoop (May 25, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > I guess there is more money in self-publishing.
> ...



Unk, when you talk out your ass, you really go big.


----------



## BDBoop (May 25, 2012)

What cracks me up is Nicholas Sparks SUCKS. But who is on the best-seller list every time he farts? BTSOOM, but his publishers are making big bank, so more of the same it is!


----------



## Unkotare (May 25, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Big Fitz said:
> ...





If I ever do I guess we'll find out.


----------



## Big Fitz (May 25, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> What cracks me up is Nicholas Sparks SUCKS. But who is on the best-seller list every time he farts? BTSOOM, but his publishers are making big bank, so more of the same it is!


Who?


----------



## BDBoop (May 25, 2012)

NYT best-selling author. The Notebook, etc.


----------



## Big Fitz (May 25, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> NYT best-selling author. The Notebook, etc.


Again... who?  These words you use mean nothing to me.


----------

