# Rest in Peace.



## Man of Ethics (Jun 9, 2021)

Very sad.  *572,000* people in 1999-2016.









						National Gun Violence Memorial
					

Learn who is killed with guns in the U.S. every day.




					gunmemorial.org


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## Hugo Furst (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Very sad.  *572,000* people in 1999-2016.
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> 
> ...



How many died in car accidents?

Drug abuse?

Covid in the last year?


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## daveman (Jun 9, 2021)




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## Baron Von Murderpaws (Jun 9, 2021)

WillHaftawaite said:


> Relative Ethics said:
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> > Very sad.  *572,000* people in 1999-2016.
> ...


Theres lots of government and private organizations that have online statistics for everything you want to know.  Just do some research and find the ones you want.


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## toobfreak (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Very sad.  *572,000* people in 1999-2016.



Funny, your linked site only lists 81,000 people, not 572,000, but Hey!  only 28,000 more to go and you'll reach the number of babies murdered EVERY YEAR by PLANNED PARENTHOOD, not every 17 years.


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## Baron Von Murderpaws (Jun 9, 2021)

toobfreak said:


> Relative Ethics said:
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> > Very sad.  *572,000* people in 1999-2016.
> ...



This is the site I use..........









						Gun Violence Archive
					






					www.gunviolencearchive.org


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## toobfreak (Jun 9, 2021)

Toffeenut Baconsmuggler said:


> toobfreak said:
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The FATAL FLAW to your site is that it lists no stat for number of crimes stopped or prevented by guns!  Such stats are collected.  The media is notoriously deficient in reporting situations where a crime likely was  about to happen but the perp was scared away / defeated because the victim had a gun.

BUT WORTH NOTING is the maps of gun crimes.  There is a red cluster of dots over every democrat-run major city.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 9, 2021)

Toffeenut Baconsmuggler said:


> Gun Violence Archive
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Thank you.  Very interesting data.


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## Baron Von Murderpaws (Jun 9, 2021)

toobfreak said:


> The FATAL FLAW to your site is that it lists no stat for number of crimes stopped or prevented by guns!  Such stats are collected.  The media is notoriously deficient in reporting situations where a crime likely was  about to happen but the perp was scared away / defeated because the victim had a gun.
> 
> BUT WORTH NOTING is the maps of gun crimes.  There is a red cluster of dots over every democrat-run major city.



These may not answer your question, but they give more info:









						Defensive gun use - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				











						Just Facts - Gun Control
					

Comprehensive and meticulously documented facts about gun control. Learn about ownership rates, crime, background checks, accidents, politics, and more.



					www.justfacts.com
				











						How often are guns used to stop crimes?
					

An armed homeowner ends a manhunt for two dangerous escaped convicts, adding ammunition to the debate about gun ownership.




					www.wyff4.com


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## westwall (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Very sad.  *572,000* people in 1999-2016.
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Millions via abortion.  Your situational ethics can go screw themselves.


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## Peace (Jun 9, 2021)

Well I have to solution for the gun deaths and humanity should abort itself seeing humanity never learns…


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 9, 2021)

Justifiable homicide is rare.  Here.

It is common in movies and video games.


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## skye (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Very sad.  *572,000* people in 1999-2016.
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What's even sadder,  is that you seem to have a problem with the  2nd Amendment.

That's VERY sad.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 9, 2021)

skye said:


> What's even sadder,  is that you seem to have a problem with the  2nd Amendment.
> 
> That's VERY sad.



*Fortunately for me,* I have no political influence.

But tens of thousands of lives are lost to guns each year in USA alone.


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## skye (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> skye said:
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> > What's even sadder,  is that you seem to have a problem with the  2nd Amendment.
> ...




More were lost  because of Fauci  last year .....so please ....have some perspective. JEZZZZZ


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 9, 2021)

skye said:


> Relative Ethics said:
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Every life has paramount value.  Tens of thousands of lives lost is a *grand tragedy*.


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## westwall (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> skye said:
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No, they don't.   The life of an innocent child is worth far more than that of a murderer.

The murderers life has NO value at all.


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## skye (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> skye said:
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Stop it with your hate towards the 2nd, OK?

Thanks.


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## WinterBorn (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Very sad.  *572,000* people in 1999-2016.
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> ...



That comes to about 32,000 per year over an 18 year period.

The only way that works is that you have included suicides in the totals.   Now, the only thing we really know about a gun suicide is that the person really, truly wanted to die.   So, unless you have evidence that some who really wants to die, would not die if a gun were unavailable, your numbers are off.


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## WinterBorn (Jun 9, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> skye said:
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Gun related murders have been in the neighborhood of 10k to 11k for years.   The rest from your number are from suicides.


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## Peace (Jun 10, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> skye said:
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> > What's even sadder,  is that you seem to have a problem with the  2nd Amendment.
> ...



Same with automobile accidents and yet you cry over guns…

Also when you subtract those that commit suicide the number of homicide deaths make your rate even lower…


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 10, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> Gun related murders have been in the neighborhood of 10k to 11k for years.   The rest from your number are from suicides.



Enabling Suicide is inhumane.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 10, 2021)

Mad_Jack_Flint said:


> Same with automobile accidents and yet you cry over guns…



Automobiles are OK.  Motorcycle fatality rate is 30 times higher then automobile fatality rate.  Motorcycles have very little positive value like guns.


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## Wyatt earp (Jun 10, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> skye said:
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What is a million a year?


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 10, 2021)

bear513 said:


> Relative Ethics said:
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> > Every life has paramount value.  Tens of thousands of lives lost is a *grand tragedy*.
> ...



Such losses can happen only in a large war or a great pandemic.  Fortunately Covid was much milder then Influentzia about a Century ago.


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jun 10, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Very sad.  *572,000* people in 1999-2016.
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> ...


I have some pearls you can borrow if you need to clutch them.


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jun 10, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> > Gun related murders have been in the neighborhood of 10k to 11k for years.   The rest from your number are from suicides.
> ...


So is enabling tyranny.


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## WinterBorn (Jun 10, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> > Gun related murders have been in the neighborhood of 10k to 11k for years.   The rest from your number are from suicides.
> ...



Enabling suicide?    If someone actually wants to die, do you think depriving them of a firearm will prevent them from committing suicide?    If you do you are naive.


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## CrusaderFrank (Jun 10, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Very sad.  *572,000* people in 1999-2016.
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LOL

Fauxi killed that many Americans in a single year!


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## Peace (Jun 10, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Mad_Jack_Flint said:
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> > Same with automobile accidents and yet you cry over guns…
> ...


That is your opinion!


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 10, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> Enabling suicide?    If someone actually wants to die, *do you think depriving them of a firearm will prevent them from committing suicide?*    If you do you are naive.



Not always, but in 80% of cases, yes.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 10, 2021)

Mad_Jack_Flint said:


> Relative Ethics said:
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> > Automobiles are OK.  Motorcycle fatality rate is 30 times higher then automobile fatality rate.  Motorcycles have very little positive value like guns.
> ...


Fatality rates per 100,000,000 passenger-miles for motorcycles are 20-30 times higher then corresponding rates for cars.  Here.

Tables.


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## WinterBorn (Jun 10, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> > Enabling suicide?    If someone actually wants to die, *do you think depriving them of a firearm will prevent them from committing suicide?*    If you do you are naive.
> ...



80%?    Where did you get that number?


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 10, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> Relative Ethics said:
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I have seen statistics that most of suicide attempts without guns fail.  I will try to find them.









						Guns & Suicide
					

Special report by Madeline Drexler, Editor, Harvard Public Health In the national debate over gun violence—a debate stoked by mass murders such as last December’s tragedy in a Newtown, Connecticut,…




					www.hsph.harvard.edu
				






> About 85 percent of suicide attempts with a firearm end in death. (Drug overdose, the most widely used method in suicide attempts, is fatal in less than 3 percent of cases.) Moreover, guns are an irreversible solution to what is often a passing crisis. Suicidal individuals who take pills or inhale car exhaust or use razors have time to reconsider their actions or summon help.


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## WinterBorn (Jun 10, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> WinterBorn said:
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I have had 5 friends commit suicide in my life.    Only 1 used a gun.    2 hanged themselves, 1 drove her car off a cliff, and 1 died of carbon monoxide poisoning.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 10, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> I have had 5 friends commit suicide in my life.    Only 1 used a gun.    2 hanged themselves, 1 drove her car off a cliff, and 1 died of carbon monoxide poisoning.



Very sad.  Rest in Peace.


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## WinterBorn (Jun 10, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> > I have had 5 friends commit suicide in my life.    Only 1 used a gun.    2 hanged themselves, 1 drove her car off a cliff, and 1 died of carbon monoxide poisoning.
> ...



Japan has a much higher suicide rate that the US, and guns are almost nonexistent for the public.

Australia had one of the heaviest gun control laws passed several years ago.    The effect on suicide was negligible.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 10, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> Japan has a much higher suicide rate that the US, and guns are almost nonexistent for the public.



Sadly many people in Japan do not view Suicide as a sin.


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## WinterBorn (Jun 10, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> > Japan has a much higher suicide rate that the US, and guns are almost nonexistent for the public.
> ...



I doubt many true suicides are worried about sin.    In fact, belief in such things is dropping.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 10, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> I doubt many true suicides are worried about sin.    In fact, belief in such things is dropping.



Very sad.


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## WinterBorn (Jun 10, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> > I doubt many true suicides are worried about sin.    In fact, belief in such things is dropping.
> ...



Eh, I am not one to judge other people's religious beliefs, or lack their of.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 10, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> Eh, I am not one to judge other people's religious beliefs, or lack their of.



Not me not any other mortal.  But I believe those who commit suicide will be punished.  Not eternally as Christians believe.


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## WinterBorn (Jun 10, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> > Eh, I am not one to judge other people's religious beliefs, or lack their of.
> ...



The ones I have know who committed suicide spent a long time in anguish.    Whom ever would punish them could have also provided them with some relief.


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## frigidweirdo (Jun 10, 2021)

WillHaftawaite said:


> Relative Ethics said:
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> > Very sad.  *572,000* people in 1999-2016.
> ...



Ah the great answer. Oh, but more people died from other things the right wingers don't want to prevent......


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## 2aguy (Jun 12, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Very sad.  *572,000* people in 1999-2016.
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> ...




Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop violent rapes, beatings, knifings, robberies and murders.....

1.1 million X 17 = 18,700,000 times that Americans used their legal guns to save people from brutal, life changing and life ending rapes, beatings, knifings, robberies and murders............

Guns save lives....

Meanwhile....in Gun free Europe, in the 15 years that the national socialists had power in Germany, they murdered 12 million innocent men, women and children.....not war dead, these people were dragged out of their homes and murdered.....

averages out to 800,000 people a year....

In the U.S......gun murder in 2019....10,235

over 15 years?  153,000

153,000 versus 12 million....


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## 2aguy (Jun 12, 2021)

Toffeenut Baconsmuggler said:


> toobfreak said:
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The Gun Violence Archive is a site that lies.

They use gang crime to push a false number for mass public shootings in this country.....if they lie on that, they will lie on everything else.....


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## 2aguy (Jun 12, 2021)

Toffeenut Baconsmuggler said:


> toobfreak said:
> 
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> > The FATAL FLAW to your site is that it lists no stat for number of crimes stopped or prevented by guns!  Such stats are collected.  The media is notoriously deficient in reporting situations where a crime likely was  about to happen but the perp was scared away / defeated because the victim had a gun.
> ...




Actually.....here......studies conducted into gun self defense.  The research groups are both private and government, often they are anti-gun in their view point......we also have the Centers For Disease Control, and the Department of Justice research....

In 2013, obama told the CDC to look at all gun research......that study is in the list as well...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense 

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million  averaged over  those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..


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## 2aguy (Jun 12, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> skye said:
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> > What's even sadder,  is that you seem to have a problem with the  2nd Amendment.
> ...




And each year Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, robberies, beatings, knifings, and murders......according to the Centers for Disease Control...

Guns save lives.


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## 2aguy (Jun 12, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> skye said:
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As Cars kill more people every single year than guns do....even if you include gun suicide...which I don't......the tragedy of car accidents is horrible...


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## 2aguy (Jun 12, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Justifiable homicide is rare.  Here.
> 
> It is common in movies and video games.




You used the Violence Policy Center...sorry, not a legitimate source......they are rabidly anti-gun, and lie.

The FBI in their justifiable homicide data only includes shootings that end in dead bad guys, that is about 235 idiots, each year,  who decide to press their attack against armed citizens............the 17 studies I listed look at all gun self defense.....the self defense that ends with the bad guys running away, surrendering, simply being wounded......and killing the bad guy.

The Violence Policy Center and other anti-gun sites do not include those types of gun self defense......so they never tell the whole story...


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## 2aguy (Jun 12, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> Relative Ethics said:
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> > Very sad.  *572,000* people in 1999-2016.
> ...




Ask the Japanese.......they find that tall buildings and trains work just as well as guns....and they commit suicide at far higher rates than Americans do....as you know...


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 12, 2021)

2aguy said:


> And each year Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, robberies, beatings, knifings, and murders......according to the Centers for Disease Control...
> 
> Guns save lives.



In USA, there are about 300 cases of justifiable homicide per year.  That is much rarer then murder and suicide.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 12, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Ask the Japanese.......they find that tall buildings and trains work just as well as guns....and they commit suicide at far higher rates than Americans do....as you know...



Sadly, Japanese people do not view suicide as a sin.


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## WinterBorn (Jun 12, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> 2aguy said:
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> > And each year Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, robberies, beatings, knifings, and murders......according to the Centers for Disease Control...
> ...



That only proves that American gun owners are not trigger happy.    The fact that Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, robberies, beatings, knifings, and murders, does not mean that American gun owners are blasting away at them.  Just that the used the gun to stop a crime.


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## WinterBorn (Jun 12, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> 2aguy said:
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> > Ask the Japanese.......they find that tall buildings and trains work just as well as guns....and they commit suicide at far higher rates than Americans do....as you know...
> ...



Not really relevant to what he said.

The Japanese commits far more suicides.  And they do it without guns.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 12, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> Relative Ethics said:
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> > In USA, there are about 300 cases of justifiable homicide per year.  That is much rarer then murder and suicide.
> ...



I do not know.  Perhaps the stats for guns preventing crime are exaggerated.

Each year, about 300 assailants are killed in justifiable homicide in USA.  That is very rare.

Most Americans base their opinions on movies where hundreds of villains are killed, rather then on reality.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 12, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> The Japanese commits far more suicides.  And they do it without guns.



Their problem is their rejection of Old Testament.  They do not view suicide as a sin.


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## WinterBorn (Jun 12, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> WinterBorn said:
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I don't know anyone who bases their decision to carry a concealed firearm on the movies.    It is a serious decision.   And the training would quickly put someone out of the notion that movie shootings are real.


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## WinterBorn (Jun 12, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> > The Japanese commits far more suicides.  And they do it without guns.
> ...



In the context of this thread, whether they reject the Old Testament is irrelevant.    They manage to commit suicide at a much higher rate than Americans, despite not having access to firearms.


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## 2aguy (Jun 13, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> 2aguy said:
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> > And each year Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, robberies, beatings, knifings, and murders......according to the Centers for Disease Control...
> ...




And about 1.1 million times a year where Americans use their legal guns to scare off, capture and simply wound criminals without killing them......


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## 2aguy (Jun 13, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> WinterBorn said:
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You obviously do.........


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## whitehall (Jun 13, 2021)

Who gets to rest in peace? An estimated million abortions happen in the U.S. every year. Do they rest in peace even though their little hearts were only beating for a couple of weeks? That having been said there was a push mostly by the same lefties that promote unrestricted abortions, for legalized assisted suicide a couple of years ago. Suicide deaths by gun might be less painful than the contraptions set up by the old ghoul Doc Kavorkian but the left still uses suicide statistics in their anti 2nd Amendment tirade.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 13, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> I don't know anyone who bases their decision to carry a concealed firearm on the movies.    It is a serious decision.   And the training would quickly put someone out of the notion that movie shootings are real.



Most of us have seen hundreds of Action movies where the Protagonist kills evil Antagonists like flies.  Guns are a useful tool for Movie Protagonists to defend themselves against Movie Antagonists.

Sadly, in Reality, justifiable homicide is rare.


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## daveman (Jun 13, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


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Often, showing the would-be criminal your have a firearm is sufficient to get him to re-think his short-term plans.


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## daveman (Jun 13, 2021)




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## whitehall (Jun 13, 2021)

Lefties live by cliches. RIP works for them while they are trying to undermine the U.S. Constitution.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 13, 2021)

daveman said:


> Often, showing the would-be criminal your have a firearm is sufficient to get him to re-think his short-term plans.



Theoretically.  Most robbers and criminals are reckless people with nothing to lose.

In USA, guns are used for 20,000 suicides and 10,000 homicides each year.  In USA, guns are used in under 300 justifiable homicides each year.


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## WinterBorn (Jun 13, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> daveman said:
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> > Often, showing the would-be criminal your have a firearm is sufficient to get him to re-think his short-term plans.
> ...



The 300 justifiable homicides are not the only uses of legal guns, in the hands of private citizens, to stop crimes.    The FBI acknowledges that.


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## 2aguy (Jun 14, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> daveman said:
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> > Often, showing the would-be criminal your have a firearm is sufficient to get him to re-think his short-term plans.
> ...




Criminals are not reckless....that is why they search out victims and select the weakest, and most isolated to attack......

You really, really don't know anything about these topics...the more you post the more I think you are in highschool, or a lower grade........playing at these issues.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 14, 2021)

2aguy said:


> the more you post the more I think you are in highschool, or a lower grade........playing at these issues.



1984-88 -- High School -- best years of my life.


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## daveman (Jun 14, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> daveman said:
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> > Often, showing the would-be criminal your have a firearm is sufficient to get him to re-think his short-term plans.
> ...


Even assuming your figures are correct -- and I kinda doubt they are -- many defensive gun uses where the would-be perp changes his mind because the intended victim shows his weapon simply aren't reported.  

Why do you want people to be unable to resist criminals?


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jun 15, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> WinterBorn said:
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100% of suicide attempts by jumping from tall buildings ends in death.

Go jump off a building.


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## WinterBorn (Jun 15, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> WinterBorn said:
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All that shows is that people who commit suicide with guns actually want to die.   And if they truly want to die, they will find away.   For proof, see our previous discussion of the Japanese.


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## daveman (Jun 15, 2021)

daveman said:


> Relative Ethics said:
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> > daveman said:
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Relative Ethics, please answer my question.  Why do you want people to be unable to resist criminals?


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 17, 2021)

daveman said:


> Relative Ethics, please answer my question.  Why do you want people to be unable to resist criminals?



LE must protect people from criminals.  Guns enable criminals and suicides.


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## daveman (Jun 17, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> daveman said:
> 
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> > Relative Ethics, please answer my question.  Why do you want people to be unable to resist criminals?
> ...


Guns enable more people to defend themselves from criminals.

You don't want them to.  

You've sided with the criminals over normal people.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 18, 2021)

daveman said:


> You've sided with the criminals over *normal people*.



No.  People with Depression and/or Mental Disability who commit suicide need more help and protection then *normal people*.


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## daveman (Jun 18, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> daveman said:
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> > You've sided with the criminals over *normal people*.
> ...


Yet you want to remove rights from people who are no threat to anyone but those who attack them.


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## Blues Man (Jun 20, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Very sad.  *572,000* people in 1999-2016.
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> ...


70% of those people killed themselves and suicide isn't a crime it's a choice.


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## Blues Man (Jun 20, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> daveman said:
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> > You've sided with the criminals over *normal people*.
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People have the right to choose to take their own lives


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## MadChemist (Jun 20, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> skye said:
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> > What's even sadder,  is that you seem to have a problem with the  2nd Amendment.
> ...



How many people die in the U.S. every day ?

What percentage of those are to guns ?

Just curious.


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## MadChemist (Jun 20, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Relative Ethics said:
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> 
> > Very sad.  *572,000* people in 1999-2016.
> ...



Now, that is SAD.


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## MadChemist (Jun 20, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Very sad.  *572,000* people in 1999-2016.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How many in Chicago...?


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 20, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Relative Ethics said:
> 
> 
> > Very sad.  *572,000* people in 1999-2016.
> ...


It is a crime, like murder.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 20, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Relative Ethics said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...


I am Jewish.  Most Americans are Christians.  Jews, Christians, and Muslims views suicide as a great sin.


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## WinterBorn (Jun 20, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > You've sided with the criminals over *normal people*.
> ...



I am all for more and better mental health care.

But, as I have said before, if someone truly wants to die they will be able to do so.    I pointed out that the Japanese have a much higher rate of suicide, and all without access to guns.   Your response was not admitting that suicides are possible without guns, but comments about the Japanese not believing in sin.


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## Man of Ethics (Jun 20, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> 1)  I am all for more and better mental health care.
> 
> 2)  But, as I have said before, if someone truly wants to die they will be able to do so.    I pointed out that the Japanese have a much higher rate of suicide, and all without access to guns.   Your response was not admitting that suicides are possible without guns, but comments about the Japanese not believing in sin.



1)  I support universal medical care 100%.

2)  Suicides without guns are possible but less likely.


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## WinterBorn (Jun 20, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > 1)  I am all for more and better mental health care.
> ...



What evidence do you have of #2?    Since there is a fine example of a high number of suicides in a nation with some of the strictest gun laws in the world.


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## Decus (Jun 20, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> > Relative Ethics said:
> ...



Have you ever had anyone in your family or someone close to you commit suicide? You can disagree with their actions but it is not a crime.

.


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## Blues Man (Jun 20, 2021)

MadChemist said:


> Relative Ethics said:
> 
> 
> > skye said:
> ...


.0003% of the population is killed by a person using a gun annually


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## Blues Man (Jun 20, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> > Relative Ethics said:
> ...




You still have the choice to end your own life.  Suicide isn't a crime.


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## Blues Man (Jun 20, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> > Relative Ethics said:
> ...


And how do you punish a "criminal" who commits suicide?


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## boedicca (Jun 20, 2021)

If gun violence and murder rates are adjusted for gang related incidents, the rates in the U.S. are below Europe's.

We don't have a gun problem.  We have a gang culture problem in which feral young men are completely dysfunctional and violent.   This is the direct result of government programs which destroyed the formation and success of Nuclear Families.


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