# Individualism



## Unkotare

I have noted with some exasperation that many here fall into easy cliches about 'the West' and 'the East' in regards to generalizations about things like "respect," "individuality," "filial piety," "independence," "community," and the like. Not long ago a poster - of the same ilk as those who dismiss other people as "robots" or fear high expectations for children - stated as if an indisputable truth that "certainly in ancient China there was no individualism" or something to that effect. Facile and simplistic declarations like that are the foundation of ignorance and misunderstanding of peoples.


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## Ringel05

Unkotare said:


> I have noted with some exasperation that many here fall into easy cliches about 'the West' and 'the East' in regards to generalizations about things like "respect," "individuality," "filial piety," "independence," "community," and the like. Not long ago a poster - of the same ilk as those who dismiss other people as "robots" or fear high expectations for children - stated as if an indisputable truth that "certainly in ancient China there was no individualism" or something to that effect. Facile and simplistic declarations like that are the foundation of ignorance and misunderstanding of peoples.


You've just now figured this out?


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## Sunni Man

Most stereotypes are grounded to a high degree in perceptual reality.   ....


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## AVISSSER

Well...if there is any proof that Asians are not robotic, it's you. Need some Kleenex to sop up all that drippin snatch?


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## Unkotare

AVISSSER said:


> Well...if there is any proof that Asians are not robotic, it's you. Need some Kleenex to sop up all that drippin snatch?



???

Who are you talking to?


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## AVISSSER

Unkotare said:


> AVISSSER said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well...if there is any proof that Asians are not robotic, it's you. Need some Kleenex to sop up all that drippin snatch?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ???
> 
> Who are you talking to?
Click to expand...


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## Unkotare

??????


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## Unkotare

.


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## Maggdy

Unkotare said:


> I have noted with some exasperation that many here fall into easy cliches about 'the West' and 'the East' in regards to generalizations about things like "respect," "individuality," "filial piety," "independence," "community," and the like. Not long ago a poster - of the same ilk as those who dismiss other people as "robots" or fear high expectations for children - stated as if an indisputable truth that "certainly in ancient China there was no individualism" or something to that effect. Facile and simplistic declarations like that are the foundation of ignorance and misunderstanding of peoples.




Because the Chinese are all the same. Kids wear uniforms at school and do the same for their leisure time.


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## Unkotare

Maggdy said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have noted with some exasperation that many here fall into easy cliches about 'the West' and 'the East' in regards to generalizations about things like "respect," "individuality," "filial piety," "independence," "community," and the like. Not long ago a poster - of the same ilk as those who dismiss other people as "robots" or fear high expectations for children - stated as if an indisputable truth that "certainly in ancient China there was no individualism" or something to that effect. Facile and simplistic declarations like that are the foundation of ignorance and misunderstanding of peoples.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Chinese are all the same. ...
Click to expand...



Ignorant nonsense.


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## Maggdy

Unkotare said:


> Maggdy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have noted with some exasperation that many here fall into easy cliches about 'the West' and 'the East' in regards to generalizations about things like "respect," "individuality," "filial piety," "independence," "community," and the like. Not long ago a poster - of the same ilk as those who dismiss other people as "robots" or fear high expectations for children - stated as if an indisputable truth that "certainly in ancient China there was no individualism" or something to that effect. Facile and simplistic declarations like that are the foundation of ignorance and misunderstanding of peoples.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Chinese are all the same. ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Ignorant nonsense.
Click to expand...



Point of view, but the facts speak for themselves. You see what you want to see, but the facts remain as facts.

In China, children are in school all day long. Usually from 8 am to 5-6 pm. They have no privacy, they only have to live for the community. 

The  “Chinese dream” ?? 
"President Xi Jinping is reshaping political education across China’s more than 283,000 primary and secondary schools for a new era." To Inspire Young Communists, China Turns to ‘Red Army’ Schools

Quotation from the article:
" “Today’s life is rich, blessed, happy and joyous,” she said. “Where does our happy life come from? Who gave it to us?”

In Ms. Xie’s classroom at the Workers and Peasants Red Army Elementary School,* there was only one correct answer,* and she had worked tirelessly to ensure her students knew it."


 

Another school:
"I went to the best high school at my city. There are 50 students in my class and only me, and another guy is not myopic. *90% of students（450 million people） are nearsightedness in my country.*" 
Ten Facts about Chinese Education




 


*What should you really see????*


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## Unkotare

Maggdy said:


> ......
> 
> In China, children are in school all day long. Usually from 8 am to 5-6 pm. They have no privacy, they only have to live for the community......




School is rigorous and competitive, but students do make their own privacy and "they only have to live for the community" is a slogan from 30+ years ago. Nonetheless, people were individuals then as well. And thousands of years before that as well. Humans are humans.


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## Unkotare

Btw, you don't become nearsighted from reading a lot, you become farsighted.


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## Maggdy

Unkotare said:


> Btw, you don't become nearsighted from reading a lot, you become farsighted.



Do you say that something is black or white?

This is already in the 21st century. Nowadays, information has come straight into own house of people. A long time ago humans had must go to church or school for some knowledge. A long time ago only reading led to knowledge. Nowadays it is possible to learn in a humane way. If you can not go along with time, you will not be competitive.


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## Unkotare

Maggdy said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Btw, you don't become nearsighted from reading a lot, you become farsighted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you say that something is black or white?
> 
> This is already in the 21st century. Nowadays, information has come straight into own house of people. A long time ago humans had must go to church or school for some knowledge. A long time ago only reading led to knowledge. Nowadays it is possible to learn in a humane way. If you can not go along with time, you will not be competitive.
Click to expand...




One more time, in English?


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## antifa

Maggdy said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maggdy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have noted with some exasperation that many here fall into easy cliches about 'the West' and 'the East' in regards to generalizations about things like "respect," "individuality," "filial piety," "independence," "community," and the like. Not long ago a poster - of the same ilk as those who dismiss other people as "robots" or fear high expectations for children - stated as if an indisputable truth that "certainly in ancient China there was no individualism" or something to that effect. Facile and simplistic declarations like that are the foundation of ignorance and misunderstanding of peoples.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Chinese are all the same. ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Ignorant nonsense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Point of view, but the facts speak for themselves. You see what you want to see, but the facts remain as facts.
> 
> In China, children are in school all day long. Usually from 8 am to 5-6 pm. They have no privacy, they only have to live for the community.
> 
> The  “Chinese dream” ??
> "President Xi Jinping is reshaping political education across China’s more than 283,000 primary and secondary schools for a new era." To Inspire Young Communists, China Turns to ‘Red Army’ Schools
> 
> Quotation from the article:
> " “Today’s life is rich, blessed, happy and joyous,” she said. “Where does our happy life come from? Who gave it to us?”
> 
> In Ms. Xie’s classroom at the Workers and Peasants Red Army Elementary School,* there was only one correct answer,* and she had worked tirelessly to ensure her students knew it."
> View attachment 169088
> 
> Another school:
> "I went to the best high school at my city. There are 50 students in my class and only me, and another guy is not myopic. *90% of students（450 million people） are nearsightedness in my country.*"
> Ten Facts about Chinese Education
> 
> 
> View attachment 169089
> 
> 
> *What should you really see????*
Click to expand...

I see robots.


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## Unkotare

I see ignorance.


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## antifa

Unkotare said:


> I see ignorance.


move away from the mirror.


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## Windparadox

`
`
In news/political forums like this, throughout the US at least, it is inhabited by a majority of hyper-partisan zealots. They live in a complete dichotomy. Everything is either their way or it is viewed as automatically wrong.There is no gray area, as it's almost the case with most humans. If you don't believe in exactly what they do, you become the enemy. There is no individualism, just the mindless group-think. They are not here for dialogue or discussion. They are here for the sole purpose of arguing their point and/or belittling those who don't agree with them.


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## antifa

Windparadox said:


> `
> `
> In news/political forums like this, throughout the US at least, it is inhabited by a majority of hyper-partisan zealots. They live in a complete dichotomy. Everything is either their way or it is viewed as automatically wrong.There is no gray area, as it's almost the case with most humans. If you don't believe in exactly what they do, you become the enemy. There is no individualism, just the mindless group-think. They are not here for dialogue or discussion. They are here for the sole purpose of arguing their point and/or belittling those who don't agree with them.


It is stupid for Americans to argue the point with Maggdy who claims to have went to school in China and made an excellent case for 96% of the students being myopic. i.e., lacking imagination, foresight, or intellectual insight.

Some wannabe philosopher calls it ignorant nonsense simply because he refuses to accept the fact that real life experience trumps opinion.


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## Unkotare

antifa said:


> Windparadox said:
> 
> 
> 
> `
> `
> In news/political forums like this, throughout the US at least, it is inhabited by a majority of hyper-partisan zealots. They live in a complete dichotomy. Everything is either their way or it is viewed as automatically wrong.There is no gray area, as it's almost the case with most humans. If you don't believe in exactly what they do, you become the enemy. There is no individualism, just the mindless group-think. They are not here for dialogue or discussion. They are here for the sole purpose of arguing their point and/or belittling those who don't agree with them.
> 
> 
> 
> It is stupid for Americans to argue the point with Maggdy who claims to have went to school in China and made an excellent case for 96% of the students being myopic. i.e., lacking imagination, foresight, or intellectual insight.
> 
> .....
Click to expand...



That’s ignorant nonsense, and I know because of the many, many, many Chinese students I have worked with - there and here - over decades of experience who in no way match such stupid stereotypes.


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## antifa

Unkotare said:


> antifa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Windparadox said:
> 
> 
> 
> `
> `
> In news/political forums like this, throughout the US at least, it is inhabited by a majority of hyper-partisan zealots. They live in a complete dichotomy. Everything is either their way or it is viewed as automatically wrong.There is no gray area, as it's almost the case with most humans. If you don't believe in exactly what they do, you become the enemy. There is no individualism, just the mindless group-think. They are not here for dialogue or discussion. They are here for the sole purpose of arguing their point and/or belittling those who don't agree with them.
> 
> 
> 
> It is stupid for Americans to argue the point with Maggdy who claims to have went to school in China and made an excellent case for 96% of the students being myopic. i.e., lacking imagination, foresight, or intellectual insight.
> 
> .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That’s ignorant nonsense, and I know because of the many, many, many Chinese students I have worked with - there and here - over decades of experience who in no way match such stupid stereotypes.
Click to expand...

The majority of Americans are robots too. We may not have as high percentage of myopics as Maggdy states that China has but our mainstream has been socially engineered to know the consequences of making waves. The majority of our business owners surround themselves with YES people. They may not lack imagination and foresight but they know they will get voted off the island if they show it.

They know the consequences for making groupthink feel or look bad. The message boards prove that to be true.

This is a great topic, so we can throw ad homs at each other all day or we can debate your philosophy.


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## Unkotare

Americans are not “robots” any more than Chinese students are.


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## antifa

Unkotare said:


> Americans are not “robots” any more than Chinese students are.


So far Sunni Man, AVISSSER, Maggdy, Windparadox, and me all disagree with you and end up being told by you that our post is Ignorant nonsense. You will have to do better than that to convince me that Americans are not robots.


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## Unkotare

antifa said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Americans are not “robots” any more than Chinese students are.
> 
> 
> 
> So far Sunni Man, AVISSSER, Maggdy, Windparadox, and me all disagree with you and end up being told by you that our post is Ignorant nonsense. You will have to do better than that to convince me that Americans are not robots.
Click to expand...



Appeal to popularity? Really? Prove a negative? Really? Any other logical fallacies you’d like to try out?


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## Two Thumbs

Maggdy said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have noted with some exasperation that many here fall into easy cliches about 'the West' and 'the East' in regards to generalizations about things like "respect," "individuality," "filial piety," "independence," "community," and the like. Not long ago a poster - of the same ilk as those who dismiss other people as "robots" or fear high expectations for children - stated as if an indisputable truth that "certainly in ancient China there was no individualism" or something to that effect. Facile and simplistic declarations like that are the foundation of ignorance and misunderstanding of peoples.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Chinese are all the same. Kids wear uniforms at school and do the same for their leisure time.
Click to expand...

so you have never seen a private or public school where the kids all have to wear a uniform?


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## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> antifa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Windparadox said:
> 
> 
> 
> `
> `
> In news/political forums like this, throughout the US at least, it is inhabited by a majority of hyper-partisan zealots. They live in a complete dichotomy. Everything is either their way or it is viewed as automatically wrong.There is no gray area, as it's almost the case with most humans. If you don't believe in exactly what they do, you become the enemy. There is no individualism, just the mindless group-think. They are not here for dialogue or discussion. They are here for the sole purpose of arguing their point and/or belittling those who don't agree with them.
> 
> 
> 
> It is stupid for Americans to argue the point with Maggdy who claims to have went to school in China and made an excellent case for 96% of the students being myopic. i.e., lacking imagination, foresight, or intellectual insight.
> 
> .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That’s ignorant nonsense, and I know because of the many, many, many Chinese students I have worked with - there and here - over decades of experience who in no way match such stupid stereotypes.
Click to expand...

.


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## antifa

Unkotare said:


> antifa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Americans are not “robots” any more than Chinese students are.
> 
> 
> 
> So far Sunni Man, AVISSSER, Maggdy, Windparadox, and me all disagree with you and end up being told by you that our post is Ignorant nonsense. You will have to do better than that to convince me that Americans are not robots.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Appeal to popularity? Really? Prove a negative? Really? Any other logical fallacies you’d like to try out?
Click to expand...

According to you, you are the only one here who is not ignorant. May as well debate yourself.


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## Maggdy

Two Thumbs said:


> Maggdy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have noted with some exasperation that many here fall into easy cliches about 'the West' and 'the East' in regards to generalizations about things like "respect," "individuality," "filial piety," "independence," "community," and the like. Not long ago a poster - of the same ilk as those who dismiss other people as "robots" or fear high expectations for children - stated as if an indisputable truth that "certainly in ancient China there was no individualism" or something to that effect. Facile and simplistic declarations like that are the foundation of ignorance and misunderstanding of peoples.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Chinese are all the same. Kids wear uniforms at school and do the same for their leisure time.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so you have never seen a private or public school where the kids all have to wear a uniform?
Click to expand...



I've seen it, moreover, I was in it when I was the kid.

Hungary was behind the iron curtain in isolation from the free world.





*However, this was not a free choice. Hungary came into the hands of Communist in violent ways. 
*

Original version

*Freedom: The flag with the Famous Hole*. 
The Flag-with-the-Hole become one of the most indelible images of the 1956 Revolution and today stands as a powerful symbol for freedom. 

At some time during the demonstration, someone cut the Soviet-imposed emblem out of the Hungarian flag.



 Freedom: The Flag with the Famous Hole | An American in Budapest


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## Unkotare

antifa said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> antifa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Americans are not “robots” any more than Chinese students are.
> 
> 
> 
> So far Sunni Man, AVISSSER, Maggdy, Windparadox, and me all disagree with you and end up being told by you that our post is Ignorant nonsense. You will have to do better than that to convince me that Americans are not robots.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Appeal to popularity? Really? Prove a negative? Really? Any other logical fallacies you’d like to try out?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to you, you are the only one here who is not ignorant. May as well debate yourself.
Click to expand...



Straw man, another logical fallacy.


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## RetiredGySgt

Two Thumbs said:


> Maggdy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have noted with some exasperation that many here fall into easy cliches about 'the West' and 'the East' in regards to generalizations about things like "respect," "individuality," "filial piety," "independence," "community," and the like. Not long ago a poster - of the same ilk as those who dismiss other people as "robots" or fear high expectations for children - stated as if an indisputable truth that "certainly in ancient China there was no individualism" or something to that effect. Facile and simplistic declarations like that are the foundation of ignorance and misunderstanding of peoples.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Chinese are all the same. Kids wear uniforms at school and do the same for their leisure time.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so you have never seen a private or public school where the kids all have to wear a uniform?
Click to expand...

BIG difference in the US a private school is not the norm and every private school is not the same nor are public schools varying from State to State. In China education is completely controlled BY and FOR the Government with conformity a necessity in ALL schools and for ALL Students.


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## Two Thumbs

Maggdy said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
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> Maggdy said:
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> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have noted with some exasperation that many here fall into easy cliches about 'the West' and 'the East' in regards to generalizations about things like "respect," "individuality," "filial piety," "independence," "community," and the like. Not long ago a poster - of the same ilk as those who dismiss other people as "robots" or fear high expectations for children - stated as if an indisputable truth that "certainly in ancient China there was no individualism" or something to that effect. Facile and simplistic declarations like that are the foundation of ignorance and misunderstanding of peoples.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Chinese are all the same. Kids wear uniforms at school and do the same for their leisure time.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so you have never seen a private or public school where the kids all have to wear a uniform?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen it, moreover, I was in it when I was the kid.
> 
> Hungary was behind the iron curtain in isolation from the free world.
> 
> View attachment 169452
> 
> *However, this was not a free choice. Hungary came into the hands of Communist in violent ways.
> *
> 
> Original version
> 
> *Freedom: The flag with the Famous Hole*.
> The Flag-with-the-Hole become one of the most indelible images of the 1956 Revolution and today stands as a powerful symbol for freedom.
> 
> At some time during the demonstration, someone cut the Soviet-imposed emblem out of the Hungarian flag.
> 
> View attachment 169457 Freedom: The Flag with the Famous Hole | An American in Budapest
Click to expand...

so you know uniforms have nothing to do with a lack of individualism.

communism clearly does want you to conform, and it clearly fails when it isn't violent.


Sorry you grew up in Hungry, glad you mad it out.


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## Two Thumbs

RetiredGySgt said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Maggdy said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have noted with some exasperation that many here fall into easy cliches about 'the West' and 'the East' in regards to generalizations about things like "respect," "individuality," "filial piety," "independence," "community," and the like. Not long ago a poster - of the same ilk as those who dismiss other people as "robots" or fear high expectations for children - stated as if an indisputable truth that "certainly in ancient China there was no individualism" or something to that effect. Facile and simplistic declarations like that are the foundation of ignorance and misunderstanding of peoples.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Chinese are all the same. Kids wear uniforms at school and do the same for their leisure time.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so you have never seen a private or public school where the kids all have to wear a uniform?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BIG difference in the US a private school is not the norm and every private school is not the same nor are public schools varying from State to State. In China education is completely controlled BY and FOR the Government with conformity a necessity in ALL schools and for ALL Students.
Click to expand...

that doesn't mean they lost their individualism, as clearly they haven't


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## antifa

antifa said:


> The majority of our business owners surround themselves with YES people. They may not lack imagination and foresight but they know they will get voted off the island if they show it.


Is there any doubt that Americans are afraid to go against groupthink at the workplace? Anyone who is not a YES person quickly finds themselves looking for another job. American robots are a little more subtle than their Chinese counterparts but the fear of making waves is still prevalent.


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## Unkotare

antifa said:


> antifa said:
> 
> 
> 
> The majority of our business owners surround themselves with YES people. They may not lack imagination and foresight but they know they will get voted off the island if they show it.
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any doubt that Americans are afraid to go against groupthink at the workplace? .....
Click to expand...



Yes, there is. Not telling your boss to f-off  everyday is not "group think." Reasonable people cooperate and work together, and it is not a sign of robotics.


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## antifa

Unkotare said:


> antifa said:
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> antifa said:
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> The majority of our business owners surround themselves with YES people. They may not lack imagination and foresight but they know they will get voted off the island if they show it.
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any doubt that Americans are afraid to go against groupthink at the workplace? .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, there is. Not telling your boss to f-off  everyday is not "group think." Reasonable people cooperate and work together, and it is not a sign of robotics.
Click to expand...

That's total bullshit. To move up the latter you have to play the political game of kissing ass by saying that sounds great boss. All the robots do is learn how to survive. There is no imagination or intellectual insight to that.

A company with 100 employees may have 5 or 10 that keep the company running. Those are the employees who find a way to break the rules without getting caught. So again, at least 90% of American workers are robots collecting a paycheck.

Life is all about taking risks that makes your adrenaline flow.


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## Unkotare

antifa said:


> Unkotare said:
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> antifa said:
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> antifa said:
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> The majority of our business owners surround themselves with YES people. They may not lack imagination and foresight but they know they will get voted off the island if they show it.
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any doubt that Americans are afraid to go against groupthink at the workplace? .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, there is. Not telling your boss to f-off  everyday is not "group think." Reasonable people cooperate and work together, and it is not a sign of robotics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's total bullshit. To move up the latter you have to play the political game of kissing ass by saying that sounds great boss. ....
Click to expand...



It is illogical to impose your subjective views, and likely personal experiences, on countless individuals and circumstances about which you cannot know.


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## antifa

Unkotare said:


> antifa said:
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> Unkotare said:
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> antifa said:
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> antifa said:
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> The majority of our business owners surround themselves with YES people. They may not lack imagination and foresight but they know they will get voted off the island if they show it.
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any doubt that Americans are afraid to go against groupthink at the workplace? .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, there is. Not telling your boss to f-off  everyday is not "group think." Reasonable people cooperate and work together, and it is not a sign of robotics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's total bullshit. To move up the latter you have to play the political game of kissing ass by saying that sounds great boss. ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is illogical to impose your subjective views, and likely personal experiences, on countless individuals and circumstances about which you cannot know.
Click to expand...

I'll make it simple for you. There are 100 senators, how many of them are doing the work of the people?


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## Unkotare

antifa said:


> Unkotare said:
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> Unkotare said:
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> antifa said:
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> 
> 
> The majority of our business owners surround themselves with YES people. They may not lack imagination and foresight but they know they will get voted off the island if they show it.
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any doubt that Americans are afraid to go against groupthink at the workplace? .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, there is. Not telling your boss to f-off  everyday is not "group think." Reasonable people cooperate and work together, and it is not a sign of robotics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's total bullshit. To move up the latter you have to play the political game of kissing ass by saying that sounds great boss. ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is illogical to impose your subjective views, and likely personal experiences, on countless individuals and circumstances about which you cannot know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'll make it simple for you. There are 100 senators, how many of them are doing the work of the people?
Click to expand...


All of them.


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## antifa

Unkotare said:


> antifa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> antifa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> antifa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any doubt that Americans are afraid to go against groupthink at the workplace? .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, there is. Not telling your boss to f-off  everyday is not "group think." Reasonable people cooperate and work together, and it is not a sign of robotics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's total bullshit. To move up the latter you have to play the political game of kissing ass by saying that sounds great boss. ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is illogical to impose your subjective views, and likely personal experiences, on countless individuals and circumstances about which you cannot know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'll make it simple for you. There are 100 senators, how many of them are doing the work of the people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All of them.
Click to expand...

So spending $13 trillion to bailout Wall Street and another $2 trillion a year for the war machine, while 30% of our housing has been hit with a foreclosure is doing the work of the people?

That makes 99% of Americans robots.


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## Unkotare

A basic understanding of logic and a certain degree of mature reasoning ability are required to have a serious discussion about anything.


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## antifa

Unkotare said:


> A basic understanding of logic and a certain degree of mature reasoning ability are required to have a serious discussion about anything.


It's logical that only 5 to 10 percent of humans have imagination and intellectual insight. That's all it took to evolve from scavengers to hunting in groups with tools.

I'd say that only about 5% of humans have the ability to figure out how to develop tools and organize the tribe to be at the right place at the right time for a successful hunt. The other 95% are robots doing what they were told.

Both critical thinker and robot need each other but the thinker has a better chance to survive on their own.


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## Unkotare

antifa said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> A basic understanding of logic and a certain degree of mature reasoning ability are required to have a serious discussion about anything.
> 
> 
> 
> It's logical that only 5 to 10 percent of humans have imagination and intellectual insight. That's all it took to evolve from scavengers to hunting in groups with tools.
> 
> I'd say that only about 5% of humans have the ability to figure out how to develop tools and organize the tribe to be at the right place at the right time for a successful hunt. The other 95% are robots doing what they were told.
> 
> Both critical thinker and robot need each other but the thinker has a better chance to survive on their own.
Click to expand...




Any scientific data to support these numbers? Anything?


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## antifa

AVISSSER has the statistics at 4% and I have them at 5%. I can start backing up these stats with dozens of studies once you actually make a half-ass argument to make me question my real life experience.

Before heirs, complex social skills wasn't enough. A tribe alpha had to have both brains and brawn for the tribe to survive. The odds of that have to be way below 10% of all humans. It would be difficult to find a paper showing different.


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## Unkotare

I’m not seeing a link to anything.


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## antifa

I don't blame you because there have to be dozens of studies that show your opinion is not well thought out.


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## there4eyeM

To have even an I.Q. of 135 puts one in the top couple of percent of the population. Naturally, the intelligent take advantage of the others. It isn't nice, it isn't good, but it is human nature. What can we do to protect the vast majority while benefiting from the capacities of the top most?


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## Unkotare

antifa said:


> I don't blame you because there have to be dozens of studies that show your opinion is not well thought out.



But you can’t link to any?


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## Two Thumbs

antifa said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> antifa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> antifa said:
> 
> 
> 
> The majority of our business owners surround themselves with YES people. They may not lack imagination and foresight but they know they will get voted off the island if they show it.
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any doubt that Americans are afraid to go against groupthink at the workplace? .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, there is. Not telling your boss to f-off  everyday is not "group think." Reasonable people cooperate and work together, and it is not a sign of robotics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's total bullshit. To move up the latter you have to play the political game of kissing ass by saying that sounds great boss. All the robots do is learn how to survive. There is no imagination or intellectual insight to that.
> 
> A company with 100 employees may have 5 or 10 that keep the company running. Those are the employees who find a way to break the rules without getting caught. So again, at least 90% of American workers are robots collecting a paycheck.
> 
> Life is all about taking risks that makes your adrenaline flow.
Click to expand...

You have no idea what the work place is like, you're just regurgitating Hollywood movie lines.


----------



## Maggdy

Two Thumbs said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maggdy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have noted with some exasperation that many here fall into easy cliches about 'the West' and 'the East' in regards to generalizations about things like "respect," "individuality," "filial piety," "independence," "community," and the like. Not long ago a poster - of the same ilk as those who dismiss other people as "robots" or fear high expectations for children - stated as if an indisputable truth that "certainly in ancient China there was no individualism" or something to that effect. Facile and simplistic declarations like that are the foundation of ignorance and misunderstanding of peoples.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Chinese are all the same. Kids wear uniforms at school and do the same for their leisure time.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so you have never seen a private or public school where the kids all have to wear a uniform?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BIG difference in the US a private school is not the norm and every private school is not the same nor are public schools varying from State to State. In China education is completely controlled BY and FOR the Government with conformity a necessity in ALL schools and for ALL Students.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that doesn't mean they lost their individualism, as clearly they haven't
Click to expand...


Uniform this case just one of the things.The uniform just symbolizes the same mentality. *No freedom of thought and speech. *People have to think and say same what is the power tell. Where is the individuality? Yes, there is personality, but it must be kept in secret. People cannot be themselves. People must practice hypocrisy and continuous tell a lie if they do not want to get punished is. Whoever does not do it is punished such as a criminal. In China, physical violence can be used in schools. They intimidate the children. This is not normal education, I'm sure of that.


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## Unkotare

Maggdy said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maggdy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have noted with some exasperation that many here fall into easy cliches about 'the West' and 'the East' in regards to generalizations about things like "respect," "individuality," "filial piety," "independence," "community," and the like. Not long ago a poster - of the same ilk as those who dismiss other people as "robots" or fear high expectations for children - stated as if an indisputable truth that "certainly in ancient China there was no individualism" or something to that effect. Facile and simplistic declarations like that are the foundation of ignorance and misunderstanding of peoples.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Chinese are all the same. Kids wear uniforms at school and do the same for their leisure time.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so you have never seen a private or public school where the kids all have to wear a uniform?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BIG difference in the US a private school is not the norm and every private school is not the same nor are public schools varying from State to State. In China education is completely controlled BY and FOR the Government with conformity a necessity in ALL schools and for ALL Students.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that doesn't mean they lost their individualism, as clearly they haven't
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Uniform this case just one of the things.The uniform just symbolizes the same mentality. *No freedom of thought and speech. *People have to think and say same what is the power tell. Where is the individuality? Yes, there is personality, but it must be kept in secret. People cannot be themselves. People must practice hypocrisy and continuous tell a lie if they do not want to get punished is. Whoever does not do it is punished such as a criminal. In China, physical violence can be used in schools. They intimidate the children. This is not normal education, I'm sure of that.
Click to expand...





Exaggeration and stereotype. Nonsense.


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## Unkotare

It is difficult for most rational people to persist with “all X are like ________ “ when they actually interact with people in real life.


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## antifa

Unkotare said:


> It is difficult for most rational people to persist with “all X are like ________ “ when they actually interact with people in real life.


Read up on slave instinct and make X = religion. The result is people like you with an illusory superiority and no interest in the evidence presented to you.


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## Unkotare

When did the topic switch to religion?


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## antifa

Robots and religion are not mutually exclusive.


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## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> I have noted with some exasperation that many here fall into easy cliches about 'the West' and 'the East' in regards to generalizations about things like "respect," "individuality," "filial piety," "independence," "community," and the like. Not long ago a poster - of the same ilk as those who dismiss other people as "robots" or fear high expectations for children - stated as if an indisputable truth that "certainly in ancient China there was no individualism" or something to that effect. Facile and simplistic declarations like that are the foundation of ignorance and misunderstanding of peoples.




And as we can see, some people cannot let go the security blanket of illogical conclusions and irrational beliefs.


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## antifa

This could have been a great thread if the OP had the ability to make a rational argument.


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## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> I have noted with some exasperation that many here fall into easy cliches about 'the West' and 'the East' in regards to generalizations about things like "respect," "individuality," "filial piety," "independence," "community," and the like. Not long ago a poster - of the same ilk as those who dismiss other people as "robots" or fear high expectations for children - stated as if an indisputable truth that "certainly in ancient China there was no individualism" or something to that effect. Facile and simplistic declarations like that are the foundation of ignorance and misunderstanding of peoples.



Simplistic generalizations and facile stereotypes are never the means to real understanding.


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## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> I have noted with some exasperation that many here fall into easy cliches about 'the West' and 'the East' in regards to generalizations about things like "respect," "individuality," "filial piety," "independence," "community," and the like. Not long ago a poster - of the same ilk as those who dismiss other people as "robots" or fear high expectations for children - stated as if an indisputable truth that "certainly in ancient China there was no individualism" or something to that effect. Facile and simplistic declarations like that are the foundation of ignorance and misunderstanding of peoples.






 Anyone who spends time with actual human beings today would have to be terribly committed to prejudice to maintain such asinine nonsense as referring to over a billion individuals as "robots." Anyone studying the ancient history of Asia will also, if one is willing to see clearly, see that individualism was as much a factor in the process of cultural, spiritual, and political development in the East as in the West.


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## antifa

Right now there are 5 of us who disagree with the OP.
If this thread were to continue to progress, there would soon be 10 of us who oppose the OP and be told their post are also ignorant nonsense.
Eventually there would be 15 of us who disagree with the OP.
And finally we would settle in with nature as 20 of us oppose the OP.
Unkotare would become so frustrated that he would tell us we are all ignorant robots.

Since Unkotare is myopic, he would miss the fact that he just falsified his own hypothesis.

Talk about irony. Nature wins again.


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## Unkotare

antifa said:


> Right now there are 5 of us who disagree with the OP.
> If this thread were to continue to progress, there would soon be 10 of us who oppose the OP.....




argumentum ad populum


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## Unkotare

antifa said:


> .....
> Unkotare would become so frustrated that he would tell us we are all ignorant robots......





You are the one trying to call people robots, remember? There is no chance of a real discussion if you are going to be irrational.


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## there4eyeM

Unkotare said:


> A basic understanding of logic and a certain degree of mature reasoning ability are required to have a serious discussion about anything.


This truth applies in the societal context. A problem arises when we consider the nature and quality of most people's internal dialog.


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## antifa

It's less than 4 minutes.


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## Unkotare

I would defy anyone to spend a significant amount of time with these students - real human beings, not  placeholders for simple stereotypes clung to by the weak-minded - and still repeat this asinine "robot" bullshit. That's how false impressions always seem to go.


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## antifa

Unkotare said:


> I would defy anyone to spend a significant amount of time with these students - real human beings, not  placeholders for simple stereotypes clung to by the weak-minded - and still repeat this asinine "robot" bullshit. That's how false impressions always seem to go.


Science proves that you post ignorant nonsense. Robots are part of the survival instinct in nature. Humans are not an exception.

You are the epitome of what is wrong with the internet, and in extension, American society. Even when you are presented with undeniable proof, you continue to insist the science is wrong and you are the only one who is not ignorant.

You are the one who ruined what could have been a great thread.


----------



## Unkotare

antifa said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would defy anyone to spend a significant amount of time with these students - real human beings, not  placeholders for simple stereotypes clung to by the weak-minded - and still repeat this asinine "robot" bullshit. That's how false impressions always seem to go.
> 
> 
> 
> Science proves that you post ignorant nonsense. Robots are part of the survival instinct in nature. Humans are not an exception.
> 
> You are the epitome of what is wrong with the internet, and in extension, American society. Even when you are presented with undeniable proof, you continue to insist the science is wrong and you are the only one who is not ignorant.
> 
> You are the one who ruined what could have been a great thread.
Click to expand...





This ^^^^^^ is irrational blather. 

Human beings are not (can’t believe I have to say this) robots, and no “scientific evidence “ has been provided that proves such a ridiculous claim.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> I would defy anyone to spend a significant amount of time with these students - real human beings, not  placeholders for simple stereotypes clung to by the weak-minded - and still repeat this asinine "robot" bullshit. That's how false impressions always seem to go.


.


----------



## BradVesp

antifa said:


> Windparadox said:
> 
> 
> 
> `
> `
> In news/political forums like this, throughout the US at least, it is inhabited by a majority of hyper-partisan zealots. They live in a complete dichotomy. Everything is either their way or it is viewed as automatically wrong.There is no gray area, as it's almost the case with most humans. If you don't believe in exactly what they do, you become the enemy. There is no individualism, just the mindless group-think. They are not here for dialogue or discussion. They are here for the sole purpose of arguing their point and/or belittling those who don't agree with them.
> 
> 
> 
> It is stupid for Americans to argue the point with Maggdy who claims to have went to school in China and made an excellent case for 96% of the students being myopic. i.e., lacking imagination, foresight, or intellectual insight.
> 
> Some wannabe philosopher calls it ignorant nonsense simply because he refuses to accept the fact that real life experience trumps opinion.
Click to expand...


I won't say that the student's aren't myopic, but sometimes one needs to get very close to a thing to notice it's differences.  What seems simple from far away maybe much more complex up close.  The students may seem to us to be repetitive, but we don't do what they do.  To them the nuance in their actions maybe as complex as all the variety in the U.S.A.'s current office attire (There's probably a better example).


----------



## antifa

BradVesp said:


> antifa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Windparadox said:
> 
> 
> 
> `
> `
> In news/political forums like this, throughout the US at least, it is inhabited by a majority of hyper-partisan zealots. They live in a complete dichotomy. Everything is either their way or it is viewed as automatically wrong.There is no gray area, as it's almost the case with most humans. If you don't believe in exactly what they do, you become the enemy. There is no individualism, just the mindless group-think. They are not here for dialogue or discussion. They are here for the sole purpose of arguing their point and/or belittling those who don't agree with them.
> 
> 
> 
> It is stupid for Americans to argue the point with Maggdy who claims to have went to school in China and made an excellent case for 96% of the students being myopic. i.e., lacking imagination, foresight, or intellectual insight.
> 
> Some wannabe philosopher calls it ignorant nonsense simply because he refuses to accept the fact that real life experience trumps opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I won't say that the student's aren't myopic, but sometimes one needs to get very close to a thing to notice it's differences.  What seems simple from far away maybe much more complex up close.  The students may seem to us to be repetitive, but we don't do what they do.  To them the nuance in their actions maybe as complex as all the variety in the U.S.A.'s current office attire (There's probably a better example).
Click to expand...

We all have our own idiosyncrasies but there are very few of us who would remain seated when the bell rang. We are outcasts for not being robots but we make great designers because we always think out of the box. I'm not constrained by man-made borders or walls. I live by my own set of rules. A subset of the counterculture.


----------



## emilynghiem

Maggdy said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have noted with some exasperation that many here fall into easy cliches about 'the West' and 'the East' in regards to generalizations about things like "respect," "individuality," "filial piety," "independence," "community," and the like. Not long ago a poster - of the same ilk as those who dismiss other people as "robots" or fear high expectations for children - stated as if an indisputable truth that "certainly in ancient China there was no individualism" or something to that effect. Facile and simplistic declarations like that are the foundation of ignorance and misunderstanding of peoples.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Chinese are all the same. Kids wear uniforms at school and do the same for their leisure time.
Click to expand...


Dear Maggdy
If all Chinese were "the same" because they look the same on the outside,
why would there be crime. Wouldn't they all agree to share property because they all think the same?
They all just follow the rules like robots and everyone does what they are told? Really?

Either they'd be at perfect peace,
or they'd all kill each other fighting over greed
because they all think they have the right to ownership.
And if they all thought the same, they'd fight to the death.

They wouldn't be able to organize communities of that size population
unless they set up hierarchies of leaders and followers,
teachers and students.

No two individuals are the same.
You should know this by every day example.

Have you ever met any two people who were the same?
What difference does it make if two people LOOK the same?

Even identical twins whose DNA are the same,
are not the same and have different preferences and personalities,
perceptions and experiences.

I think the adult brain starts grouping people collectively
in order to ORGANIZE all that data memory in our minds.
If we don't know people personally, we just categorize and class
them in a folder with others we "associate" with them.
So maybe your brain sees all Chinese and Asian people
as one big data group, because you don't know any of them
individually enough to distinguish any from the others?


----------



## Unkotare

emilynghiem said:


> ....
> If all Chinese were "the same" because they look the same on the outside,....





Did you really post this fucking nonsense?


----------



## BradVesp

Unkotare said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> If all Chinese were "the same" because they look the same on the outside,....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you really post this fucking nonsense?
Click to expand...



There are many different assumptions that imply racism.  Sadly, even when arguing against racism, we use those same assumptions and imply racism.


----------



## emilynghiem

Unkotare said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> If all Chinese were "the same" because they look the same on the outside,....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you really post this fucking nonsense?
Click to expand...


Who me Unkotare?
No, it must have been a different Asian person
on here since we all look and think the same, right??


----------



## Unkotare

emilynghiem said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> If all Chinese were "the same" because they look the same on the outside,....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you really post this fucking nonsense?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who me Unkotare?
> No, it must have been a different Asian person
> on here since we all look and think the same, right??
Click to expand...







??????


----------



## Tijn Von Ingersleben

High context v. Low context cultures. It's not as if their behavior is innate...or is it? I wonder if their are studies showing the group behavioral patterns of twins separated at birth? One raised in the low context, individualistic west, the other in the high context group oriented east? That would be some pretty interesting stuff. 
Another angle has to be IQ and the Asian understanding of efficiency, planning and execution. Maybe the Asians 'get it' that homogeneity, culturally is the key to both staying power and progress? Not that they have not had their hiccups...but all things considered. 
This may also be tied to belief systems (Buddhism, Tao, Shinto, Confucius) and their effect on society. 
East Asian cultures tend to be much more contiguously older than many parts of the world. Chinese culture for example has been dominated primarily by a single group (Han) for millennia...from Qin to Qing., dynastically.
Though the country is highly varied (ethnically), Chinese culture itself dates back >2K years. Despite the rise of Communism, Chinese culture and custom, at the core, remains intact. 
Think of the cultural variation in Europe in 2K years? Let alone the Americas...Africa. 
Asians are a very interesting bunch.


----------



## Unkotare

Junk food ^^^^^^


----------

